# Older cubers discussions



## MarcelP (Jun 22, 2012)

Hi Guys,

My name is Marcel, 42 years old. I have learned to solve the cube at age 11 - 12 or so. I had not touched a cube a maybe 15 - 20 years. A few weeks ago I solved a cube and found it very nice to see that I still knew how to do that. When I looked at youtube I found amazing stuff from you speedsolvers. I thought it was the most amazing thing I have ever seen. I solved the cube in a layer by layer which could take up to 10 minutes.

So when I decided that I want to be much faster. I ordered a few cubes. The Dayan Zhianchi and Guhong. I looked at these video's:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vHBUkVpIsFw&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k-xbcAMfWwM

And in one week I went from solving times of 10 minutes to below 2 minutes. In fact I have a video of a 1.30 solve: 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hjjq82S1DcA&list=UUIXTiyCxjMTqLy2P_gV5Vxw&index=1&feature=plcp

My goal is to get below one minute. Right now I have not focussed on OLL and PLL. I just need to get the 2FL much quicker. I recon in a few weeks times must be a lot better.

Cheers!


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## Dimeg (Jun 22, 2012)

'My goal is to get below one second.'


good luck!


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## MarcelP (Jun 22, 2012)

Ooopes, not native english here.. I ment a minute..


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## jonlin (Jun 22, 2012)

I looked at your video. I'm no expert, But you need to recognize your cases much quicker to get faster.


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## god of rubic 2 (Jun 22, 2012)

The more practise you get, the more rapidly you'll improve. Your times will go down until you are pretty quick.


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## MarcelP (Jun 22, 2012)

jonlin said:


> I looked at your video. I'm no expert, But you need to recognize your cases much quicker to get faster.



Thanks Jonlin. This video I made was just after learning about building pairs. So after only a few hours doing all different cases. I really want to become quicker at the recognising. I quess but just practising weeks and weeks I will become faster. If anyone has tips on how to reconize faster I would be glad to hear them. It really is my biggest weakness at the moment.


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## Cubenovice (Jun 22, 2012)

I see you have already found Badmephisto's yt channel. Make sure to check out his other video and website too.

Another good F2L video series (just for different perspective) is the RiDo Hunting Story
http://youtu.be/WB5apB2i_Do


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## stoic (Jun 22, 2012)

Welcome Marcel!
Good introduction. Nice to have some more of us "oldies" on here (I'm 39).
Hope you enjoy it here.


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## sneaklyfox (Jun 22, 2012)

Welcome! I watched your video. Try to do your cross in 8 or less moves. Badmephisto has pretty good tips on how to do the cross. Practice doing it blindfolded. Start with just one or two edge pieces, then move to three, then four.


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## MarcelP (Jun 22, 2012)

ellwd said:


> Welcome Marcel!
> Good introduction. Nice to have some more of us "oldies" on here (I'm 39).
> Hope you enjoy it here.



Yes, we oldies have to stick together.. LOL



Cubenovice said:


> I see you have already found Badmephisto's yt channel. Make sure to check out his other video and website too.
> 
> Another good F2L video series (just for different perspective) is the RiDo Hunting Story
> http://youtu.be/WB5apB2i_Do



Thanks! I will definatly watch it.



sneaklyfox said:


> Welcome! I watched your video. Try to do your cross in 8 or less moves. Badmephisto has pretty good tips on how to do the cross. Practice doing it blindfolded. Start with just one or two edge pieces, then move to three, then four.



Yes, I have not put any effort in doing the cross. I do it in 13 - 15 seconds. Waaaaay tooooo looooong. Thanks for the tip. I love his video's.


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## wensley21 (Jun 22, 2012)

Wow... I'm just amaze at your age you still have interest on cubing...My Dad cant even handle holding it.... anyway! Welcome to the World of Speedcubing Marcel. Hope you achieved your goal.


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## Applejuice (Jun 22, 2012)

Hey Marcel! 

I'm Dutch too! In what area are you?

And around 54 seconds, I see you slowly twist the cube to find where to insert the pair. Try to know your color scheme better! For instance: I know that when yellow is on top and red is on front that orange is on the back (orange and yellow are a like, a little trick to help memorize) and on the right is green and left blue. 
But don't worry, just keep on practicing, I trust that you will get sub 1 minute!
Also, try to limit your cube rotations. It's not that important for you right now, but just something to practice on sometimes. 
I also notice that you turn slow. You my want to just practice doing fingertricks a bit faster (but at the same time try to limit your pauses!) .

Also note that I'm a beginner like you, but I think that the above tips will help you. (hope)


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## MarcelP (Jun 22, 2012)

Thanks wensley21. I guess I am a big kid anyway. 
Hey Applejuice. I am from Bovenkarspel. Thanks for the heads up. Right now building pairs is not something that my mind can do without thinking. So it takes long to find the pairs and long to remember what to do with them  I will keep practising untill it will become better. I just clocked a 1.18 btw


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## Applejuice (Jun 22, 2012)

MarcelP said:


> Thanks wensley21. I guess I am a big kid anyway.
> Hey Applejuice. I am from Bovenkarspel. Thanks for the heads up. Right now building pairs is not something that my mind can do without thinking. So it takes long to find the pairs and long to remember what to do with them  I will keep practising untill it will become better. I just clocked a 1.18 btw



Congrats on the new PB (right?)! How long do you practice per day? And how long have you had your Zhanchi & Guhong?


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## MarcelP (Jun 22, 2012)

I think I practise one or twoo hours a day. I just keep a cube in my hands while watching TV LOL.. I have had my new cubes less than two weeks.


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## Chrisalead (Jun 23, 2012)

Welcome Marcel ! I'm 36 and like you I didn't touch my cube for 20 years before last year and a half. Now I'm averaging between 13 and 15s. If you practice every day, you will be sub-1 in no time !


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## Goosly (Jun 23, 2012)

MarcelP said:


> I think I practise one or twoo hours a day. I just keep a cube in my hands while watching TV LOL..



Best way to practice  You don't need to time every solve.

Also, if you have a chance to go to a competition (there is 1 in the Netherlands at the end of august and 2 at the end of september), certainly do so!
Meeting some experienced cubers will surely help you on fingertricks and other usefull things

List of competitions in Europe

edit: watched the video, that cube needs some lube


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## MarcelP (Jun 23, 2012)

Goosly said:


> edit: watched the video, that cube needs some lube



My ZhianChi is the only cube without lube. I really like it the way it is now. Out of the box perfect for me. My other Dayans and Rubiks have all lube. I might check out the competition. Sounds like fun.


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## Cubenovice (Jun 23, 2012)

1:30 was a bit painfull to watch 
- you didn't need to turn the top layer to make the yellow cross
- but if you do: instead of rotatating the whole cube you can just turn the top layer instead 
- If you had performed that same alg straight after thatg last pair (without cu!be rotation)your OLL would have been solved
- in a really lucky case performing the alg from the left side could have solved the whole cube 

Just keep going and soon things will feel more natural and times will decrease.

Make sure to check badmephisto's beginner last layer!


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## MarcelP (Jun 23, 2012)

Cubenovice said:


> 1:30 was a bit painfull to watch



LOL, yes I know. And still I am proud of it.



Cubenovice said:


> Make sure to check badmephisto's beginner last layer!



Yes, I hope to get around it today..

Go to 1:15 in this video and you will see I allready know some OLL and PLL argortims:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HsmKjIKPLrs


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## Goosly (Jun 23, 2012)

Is that intuitive or algorithmic F2L?
You should definitively try to solve F2L cases intuitively


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## MarcelP (Jun 23, 2012)

Yes, intuitively. I have a problem remembering algortims


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## Goosly (Jun 23, 2012)

MarcelP said:


> Yes, intuitively. I have a problem remembering algortims



Great  Well, for F2L at least.
You will need to learn some algorithms for the last layer, but take your time and you'll get used to them


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## Zantac (Jun 23, 2012)

Welcome Marcel here another oldie (45) from the Netherlands. Saw your Vid. 
My tips :
When Practice move Slow and try to look ahead. And you'll improve very fast. Also try to become colorneutral. 
Learning 2 look OLL and 2 look PLL isnt so important as learning to look ahead in F2L and the most important is the Cross i`ve learned. try to 'catch' the first f2l pair when solving the cross.
anyway keep on practising and you'll soon be a sub 50.

Groetjes


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## Kattenvriendin (Jun 23, 2012)

Well hello there, forum flooding with Dutch folk here hehe, 'nother Dutchie. You are already faster than I am, so you have NOTHING to worry about as you are not the slowest of the bunch hehe. All I can say is practice that F2L, don't try to be fast, but as you are putting the pair in the slot you can start looking ahead for the following pair. As you get more adept in that, speeds will automatically increase with the new skill included.

Sep 15-16 Eindhoven Open.. I am thinking of going. Not to compete, although I see the 3x3 best of 5 time limit is 2 minutes, heck us slow folk can manage that!


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## MarcelP (Jun 24, 2012)

Kattenvriendin said:


> although I see the 3x3 best of 5 time limit is 2 minutes, heck us slow folk can manage that!



LOL, well I don't know about that.. Welcome to you too..


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## Goosly (Jun 24, 2012)

Everyone can compete in 3x3, we don't really care about time limits for that event. There are people who average 5 minutes at their first competition


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## MarcelP (Jun 24, 2012)

Well I can definatly beat a 5 minute average.


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## Crazycubemom (Jun 24, 2012)

Hello Marcel, I'm glad that Oldies still have passion with Rubik's Cube.
Hope to see you @ competitions , keep on practice Marcel.


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## MarcelP (Jun 25, 2012)

Hi fastest 48+ woman on earth.. LOL. Thanks for the heads up. I will keep on practicing. In fact, I just ordered a few nice cubes from xd.com


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## Kattenvriendin (Jun 25, 2012)

Great! I hope they arrive soon and you'll be as happy as I was when the newbies arrived (like a kid in a candy store, I was, hahaha).


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## MarcelP (Jun 27, 2012)

Shipment is sent out today. Can't wait for my new stickerless ZhanChi..  I suspect it will take more than a week from the US to Holland.


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## MarcelP (Jun 27, 2012)

Whoohoo..

This probably hurts many of you guys eyes (so slow and so many mistakes) but I did a PB again:

1:10 That means that I am closing in om my goal rather quickly btw.

http://youtu.be/qlFQbb93y5I


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## Endgame (Jun 29, 2012)

Are you doing F2L by pairing up corners and edges (Fridrich F2L)? With your times I strongly recommend you to use Keyhole F2L. 

Keyhole F2L is a great alternative and stepping stone to Fridrich F2L, and it still enables you to achieve great time with it. Just to give you an example, my PBs are using Keyhole F2L. 

Oh, and before I forget: _"Welkom!"_


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## guusrs (Jun 29, 2012)

Endgame said:


> Are you doing F2L by pairing up corners and edges (Fridrich F2L)? With your times I strongly recommend you to use Keyhole F2L.
> 
> Keyhole F2L is a great alternative and stepping stone to Fridrich F2L, and it still enables you to achieve great time with it. Just to give you an example, my PBs are using Keyhole F2L.
> 
> Oh, and before I forget: _"Welkom!"_



Don't listen to him Marcel, pairing up has more potential, movecount is lower, so advantage for not-so-fast-turners, as we are...........


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## Endgame (Jun 29, 2012)

Many people use Keyhole F2L as a stepping stone to full F2L, so I don't see what the problem is. Learning full F2L with times times like 1:10 is what you can call _de lat te hoog leggen_. That's like learning full OLL without knowing 2-look PLL.


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## MarcelP (Jun 30, 2012)

Hi Guus and Endgame! I use pairing up as my main F2L strategy. I don't know what keyhole is. I will have a look into it on youtube, I do however take any advise Guus gives because I have seen him do amazing solves in person


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## Endgame (Jun 30, 2012)

With all respect.. If I was you I would do the same.


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## MarcelP (Jul 6, 2012)

Whhhooohoo.. I have been getting bad results all week (or longer). Today suddenly I had great times.. A few new PB's (about 4 or 5 LOL) My previous best was 1:10

A 1:01





And 1:00





Almost sub 1 minute.. I need to adjust my goal...


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## sneaklyfox (Jul 6, 2012)

Hey look! 10 seconds faster after a week. Another 6 weeks and it will take no time at all!


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## MarcelP (Jul 6, 2012)

LOL.. I guess the next 10 seconds will take more than a few months. But I would today be happy with a 59 sec.


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## Goosly (Jul 6, 2012)

getting 10 sec faster will not take you months... the 1' solve was not bad for the most part, but the 4th F2L pair was awful to watch... You really should know how to solve every single F2L case (intuitively)
practice this: look for both pieces (edge and corner), think of how you want to solve the pair, close your eyes, solve it. that should help for solving a single pair faster 

edit: you spend 10" doing a U-perm (3-edge cycle PLL). you will get a lot faster without much effort


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## MarcelP (Jul 6, 2012)

Goosly said:


> the 1' solve was not bad for the most part, but the 4th F2L pair was awful to watch... You really should know how to solve every single F2L case (intuitively)


LOL, Yes I know.. I do however really apreciate your tips. That's why I post these vids. 



Goosly said:


> practice this: look for both pieces (edge and corner), think of how you want to solve the pair, close your eyes, solve it. that should help for solving a single pair faster


I never thought of that. I will start with that today. Thanks!



Goosly said:


> edit: you spend 10" doing a U-perm (3-edge cycle PLL). you will get a lot faster without much effort



I did it with left hand, which I only learned yesterday. I can do it with my right hand under 2 secs.


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## Erik (Jul 6, 2012)

Keep listening to Guus, he is legend in my eyes . Building pairs is definitely better than keyhole, I still regret I took the inbetween step of learning keyhole, it wasted time. Also it was annoying to get used to building pairs afterwards...

How about a competition in Enschede? http://cube.hackvalue.de/mn12/


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## Kattenvriendin (Jul 6, 2012)

Heyyy good for you!!


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## MarcelP (Jul 6, 2012)

Erik said:


> Keep listening to Guus, he is legend in my eyes . Building pairs is definitely better than keyhole, I still regret I took the inbetween step of learning keyhole, it wasted time. Also it was annoying to get used to building pairs afterwards...
> 
> How about a competition in Enschede? http://cube.hackvalue.de/mn12/



Yes, I will keep on listening to Guus's advises. I think the competition is too soon for me. I do not perform very well under pressure so I need to get comfortable doing Fridich first. I will definitely enter competition one day.


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## Erik (Jul 6, 2012)

I think you have a wrong idea of what a competition is about ;-) it's really about meeting up and having fun. No matter if you are 10 seconds of 1 minute. Also: no matter if you are 1 minute or 12 seconds on average, you aint gonna win anyway (don't take this too serious). Heck, you can even come and don't compete and just have fun


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## MarcelP (Jul 17, 2012)

jonlin said:


> I looked at your video. I'm no expert, But you need to recognize your cases much quicker to get faster.



Hi Jonlin,

I have been working on that. I have trained like l this:

[video=youtube_share;5oICURn9mKU]http://youtu.be/5oICURn9mKU[/video]

And today I had a new PB. 40 seconds with a PLL skip:

http://youtu.be/NEoPWd-9IwY

I am really happy today  Now I really want my averages drop from around 1:00 to this 40 seconds.. LOL


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## Goosly (Jul 17, 2012)

Nice progress 

As for the training video, the blue-orange pair at 1:20 should be solved like this: R' U R U2 R' U R
What you did was bringing the edge to the U layer first, then build the pair, then inserting the pair. Those first two steps can be combined into one 

As for the green-orange pair at 1:50: You're probably right that for you, at this point in your progress, [rotation - splitting the pair - rotation - solving] is faster than unsolving the green-red pair, but I think you should try to eliminate rotations (it will help you in the future  )
So solve it with: R U2 R2' U' R2 U' R'


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## sneaklyfox (Jul 17, 2012)

Nice. You are certainly improving and that is positive.


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## MarcelP (Jul 17, 2012)

sneaklyfox said:


> Nice. You are certainly improving and that is positive.



Yes, thanks!


Goosly said:


> Nice progress
> 
> As for the training video, the blue-orange pair at 1:20 should be solved like this: R' U R U2 R' U R



Ok, thanks. I have tried it. I will try to remember from now on.




Goosly said:


> As for the green-orange pair at 1:50: You're probably right that for you, at this point in your progress, [rotation - splitting the pair - rotation - solving] is faster than unsolving the green-red pair, but I think you should try to eliminate rotations (it will help you in the future  )
> So solve it with: R U2 R2' U' R2 U' R'



Yes, that is something for in the future. Like full OLL and full PLL ;-)


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## MarcelP (Jul 29, 2012)

Hi Guys,


I took an hour to do 60 solves. Here is my new avarage:






I had a lucky scramble and had a new PB as well. It was a full solve though:






Today is a happy day


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## moralsh (Jul 29, 2012)

Slowly getting there, congrats!

I'm trying to follow your steps, I have shaved about 30 seconds of my average since I got my first Zhanchi and I'm sitting round the 1 minute mark now, thanks for the inspiration!


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## MarcelP (Jul 29, 2012)

morlash said:


> thanks for the inspiration!



LOL! You are welcome! Do you have solves online on Youtube? I would love to see it.


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## moralsh (Jul 29, 2012)

MarcelP said:


> LOL! You are welcome! Do you have solves online on Youtube? I would love to see it.



I will, once I can set up the camera with a good angle, no sooner than August 13 as I'm traveling abroad (with my cube, of course), but I'll definitely will do it, as Id like to be corrected to improve.


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## arcio1 (Jul 29, 2012)

Hi! 
I think you should use scrambler  I would suggest using not-colored cube, too, because it isn't allowed to use them at competition 
And good luck and have fun!


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## MarcelP (Jul 29, 2012)

arcio1 said:


> Hi!
> I would suggest using not-colored cube, too, because it isn't allowed to use them at competition



I know, I also like my normal Zhanchi's and Guhongs. I change every few solves to a different cube. I have to admit that I like the speed of the color cubes best. I think it is ridiculous that they are not allowed in competition. They should change the rules.
[video=youtube_share;QMEDKKBHv_E]http://youtu.be/QMEDKKBHv_E[/video]


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## sneaklyfox (Jul 29, 2012)

Great to see your progress. Keep it up!


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## arcio1 (Jul 29, 2012)

I don't think that it is ridiculous, if you use colored cubes you can see edges on B during U moves


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## MarcelP (Jul 29, 2012)

I think it is ridiculous because if every one can use colored cubes, then everyone can have this advantage (which is absolutely zero imho).


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## guusrs (Jul 29, 2012)

Well done Marcel!
We can compete against each other soon!


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## MarcelP (Jul 30, 2012)

Hi Guus, it will not be soon before I am in your league  However it will be fun to compete against you.


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## ben1996123 (Jul 30, 2012)

Use qqtimer. Don't practise with only R and U scrambles for F2L because some cases are impossible to get with only R and U moves.


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## bluecloe45 (Jul 30, 2012)

ben1996123 said:


> Use qqtimer. Don't *practise* with only R and U scrambles for F2L because some cases are impossible to get with only R and U moves.



Engrish


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## MarcelP (Aug 2, 2012)

New PB. 33 seconds. I am training 'slow' turning to improve look ahead. Had some good averages today (below 50 seconds).

[video=youtube_share;aJ2frPbsqRA]http://youtu.be/aJ2frPbsqRA[/video]


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## arcio1 (Aug 2, 2012)

Use qqtimer and don't do hand-scrambles 
And you should plan cross during inspection, so that you can look for first F2L pair while doing cross  You can practice it by doing cross blindfolded


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## sneaklyfox (Aug 2, 2012)

It looks like you had no inspection.


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## MarcelP (Aug 2, 2012)

sneaklyfox said:


> It looks like you had no inspection.


Yes, really. I seem to do faster crosses by just doing them as I go. When I do inspect I mix correct edges with bad egdes. I have not spend time on doing fast crosses. Building pairs had been my weakest thing. It is on the calendar though.. 

@arcio1 Yes I must look into the scramble thing.


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## Endgame (Aug 2, 2012)

bluecloe45 said:


> Engrish



practise is a verb. stop complaining


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## sneaklyfox (Aug 2, 2012)

MarcelP said:


> Yes, really. I seem to do faster crosses by just doing them as I go. When I do inspect I mix correct edges with bad egdes. I have not spend time on doing fast crosses. Building pairs had been my weakest thing. It is on the calendar though..



I guess when you are a beginner, it helps to do crosses by looking at the pieces to get used to how they move around the cube, but I think you want to move beyond that and seeing how you've already had such good improvement, I think you are comfortable enough with the cube to start doing the cross blindfolded and learn to use inspection time for that. I'm glad you have it on the calendar, but I recommend bumping that up into your solves now instead of later. Even if it is hard to plan the entire cross, try using inspecting to plan at least one or two pieces of the cross (better than none). And having a cross planned really does help your look ahead into the first F2L pair which in turn helps the whole F2L become smoother and better. Just a suggestion.


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## MarcelP (Aug 2, 2012)

I know you are right. I will focus on blind crosses for a while and see if it makes some difference. I know when I have difficult crosses now it could take up to 8 seconds or so.. That is waaaay to long.


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## Kattenvriendin (Aug 3, 2012)

Your timer has scrambles, right in the top of the screen it gives them


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## MarcelP (Aug 4, 2012)

Ah, thanks. I never saw that. LOL Too much focussed on getting better times. Ha ha ha..


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## Kattenvriendin (Aug 4, 2012)

*chuckles*

Well you are doing a great job with those times!

I am finally sub 1:30 on average, ah well.. snails get to the finish too hihi


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## drogg (Aug 4, 2012)

Sneaklyfox is wise!


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## MarcelP (Aug 10, 2012)

drogg said:


> Sneaklyfox is wise!



Indeed! I have been practising cross for a week for about an hour a day. I still can't do blind crosses. But however, I finally understand where to put pieces so that they are opposite no matter where the white middle piece is  My times have improved.

32 seconds full solve:
[video=youtube_share;41xEFqX55HY]http://youtu.be/41xEFqX55HY[/video]


31 seconds PLL with skip http://youtu.be/UJ-2GNoqmf8
32 secons lucky scramble :http://youtu.be/Ak_d8_n_ISU

That sub 30 PB is comming soon I hope  (although I am not in any hurry)


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## arcio1 (Aug 10, 2012)

Actually it's 34.77+ 
Learn more advanced cross techniques (e.g. instead of doing R U R' F2 for last piece, you could just do D R' D') and do it in 8 or less moves.
And once again, use scrambles


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## sneaklyfox (Aug 10, 2012)

Low 30s solves. Cool. You're improving quickly. No longer trying to break sub-1 min barrier. Already at 30s barrier. Haha.

I used badmephisto's advice about cross. Have you watched his video on cross? And yes, like arcio1 says, try to do cross in 8 or less moves.


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## MarcelP (Aug 10, 2012)

arcio1 said:


> Actually it's 34.77+
> Learn more advanced cross techniques (e.g. instead of doing R U R' F2 for last piece, you could just do D R' D') and do it in 8 or less moves.
> And once again, use scrambles



32.77+ LOL Yes, I was looking at the screen when hitting the space bar, so I did not realise I had a U trun left. And you are right about learning more advanced techniques. But at this point in my beginner-state brain there is only so much I can remember. I leave advanced F2L pairing en Advanced cross untill I can do full PLL. Now I only know half the cases.



sneaklyfox said:


> Low 30s solves. Cool. You're improving quickly. No longer trying to break sub-1 min barrier. Already at 30s barrier. Haha.
> 
> I used badmephisto's advice about cross. Have you watched his video on cross? And yes, like arcio1 says, try to do cross in 8 or less moves.



Yes, I have seen it ten times at least. My brain just does not have this quick recognising thing on bad edges and good edges. But I keep trying 

Oh, btw I know now that my look ahead on black cubes is much better that on color cubes and white cubes. My averages of let's say 50 solves is each time few seconds better with black. I am in the 45 seconds averages range now.


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## MarcelP (Aug 14, 2012)

arcio1 said:


> And once again, use scrambles



After I had a nice hand scramble and broke my PB ( http://youtu.be/lWkqLfplJpo ) to 29 seconds I figured I must start using scrambles like you said. I must say, I really find it a hassle. I really like random handscrambles because you do not have to concentrate 

anyway, I got this one on a scrambe: It nearly gave me heartattack. I would have never never dreamed of getting this fast. 
[video=youtube_share;VnBz_zZcgT4]http://youtu.be/VnBz_zZcgT4[/video]
And I must say, my averages are still way way higher (up in the 40-ies). I have done a 1000 solves (bit exagerated) after this one and none came even close.

Thanks for watching.

Cheers,


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## Goosly (Aug 14, 2012)

Nice solve!

computer-generated scrambles are more reliable since they are fully random, while handscrambles are surely not. Keep using them and you will get faster. Also, try to find fingertricks while scrambling, it's quite fun once you get good at it 

Will you be coming to the competition at Eindhoven or Amstelveen?


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## Kattenvriendin (Aug 14, 2012)

I have been trying to get him to go to Eindhoven, lol nope.

Would be fun though!


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## sneaklyfox (Aug 14, 2012)

Nice job on 24 secs! You do it once, you can do it again. Turning looks pretty good too. Not much pauses.


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## arcio1 (Aug 14, 2012)

You will get used to scrambles and use them faster 
Nice solve, good luck on getting average like that


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## MarcelP (Aug 15, 2012)

Goosly said:


> Nice solve!
> 
> Will you be coming to the competition at Eindhoven or Amstelveen?



No, Eindhoven is too far for me. I might go to the one that is close to Zaandam.


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## Endgame (Aug 15, 2012)

MarcelP said:


> No, Eindhoven is too far for me. I might go to the one that is close to Zaandam.



Amstelveen Open 2012 maybe?


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## Goosly (Aug 15, 2012)

Yes, Amstelveen is quite close for you then
Looking forward to seeing you there


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## MarcelP (Aug 15, 2012)

Yes, I might do just that. I have some time left to practice some more..


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## Kattenvriendin (Aug 15, 2012)

Cool, something that is near for you! :tu


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## moralsh (Aug 18, 2012)

MarcelP said:


> LOL! You are welcome! Do you have solves online on Youtube? I would love to see it.



I just did an Ao5 and I'm uploading it to youtube now, Should I post it in this thread or do you prefer to keep it to your videos?

Average of 5: 1:02.60
1. 58.51 R2 D2 B2 D F2 R2 B2 F2 D B2 R' B L2 D2 U' L2 B R U2 
2. 1:03.39 D' L D F' R2 F' L B L F' R2 U R2 F2 U F2 U2 R2 D' B2 U 
3. (1:17.25) B' L U' F L' D F U' B' R L2 U2 R B2 R U2 L D2 F2 U2 
4. (41.69) R2 U L2 B2 U' B2 F2 U' R2 D2 R2 F U B' D' U2 L F L2 D B' 
5. 1:05.91 R2 D2 B' F2 R2 B2 R2 U2 R2 B R2 U' L' F2 R' D' B2 L2 B2 U F2 

3rd solve was a nightmare and 4th one was a PLL skip (U2)


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## MarcelP (Aug 18, 2012)

No, be my guest! Place it here. I would love to see it.


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## moralsh (Aug 18, 2012)

MarcelP said:


> No, be my guest! Place it here. I would love to see it.



There it goes!

[video=youtube_share;jErgs-nItUQ]http://youtu.be/jErgs-nItUQ[/video]

I'll put my Ipad in landscape orientation and will try to find a better angle for the next one

Please, all critics (fair and unfair) accepted!


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## MarcelP (Aug 18, 2012)

Very nice! I see you make good progress as a beginner (like me). I also have times all over the place sometimes. I really laughed when I saw that you was surprised by the 41 seconds solve.. LOL you paused a while after that. Little while ago I also had times fluctuate from 45-ish to 1:20. But I promise you that will get better. My solves have become more stable. I rarely finish over 1 minute these days. In fact most solves do not go over 55 seconds. Most of my average of 5 are around 45 seconds.


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## moralsh (Aug 18, 2012)

lol, yes, my times fluctuation doesn't get better (yet) I just finished a sub 1 Ao12 and look at the times:


best avg12: 59.86 (σ = 7.40)
1. (44.82) R B L D' L2 U R' B' D F2 D2 R L2 F2 R' F2 R B2 U2 
2. 56.98 B2 D' B2 F2 D2 L2 D' F2 D' F2 U' R D2 L F D U2 R' U2 L 
3. 1:05.37 U F2 U' L2 F2 D2 L2 D' F2 U2 R' F R2 B2 R' D2 U2 L' D2 U' 
4. (1:09.83) D2 F U2 F2 U2 R2 D2 F' R2 D2 B' L' F2 D L U B2 R2 B' L F2 
5. 1:08.09 F2 U' R2 B2 U B2 D2 U F2 L2 U' L U R' B L2 F' R' B2 D' B2 
6. 1:01.75 F' L' U2 B R' D' F' U R2 B' R2 F2 L B2 U2 R' F2 U2 R2 B2 D2 
7. 45.12 R' L2 F R' F' U' F' L B' R U' B2 L2 D F2 U' R2 B2 R2 D' 
8. 1:09.59 L' U2 R2 F2 R' B2 R' B2 R' D2 R U' L U2 B' F U' L D' F' R' 
9. 58.97 U L2 B2 D' L2 R2 D' L2 R2 D' L' U2 F' L B R' U' R' D2 R2 
10. 54.14 U' B L D2 B D F L D F' U2 R2 F L2 B L2 U2 B2 D2 F2 
11. 1:03.55 U' B2 L2 B2 U' B2 R2 D' U2 F2 D L R2 U' B2 L2 B' R' D' B F 
12. 55.03 F' R' B2 L' D' R2 B U' R F' U D2 R2 B2 R2 B2 U' B2 D' F2 U' 

the two 40s where not lucky (the second one was 2 look PLL in fact) I have 25 seconds range in that solves :O guess I'll keep on practicing

Thanks for the input!


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## MarcelP (Aug 21, 2012)

And since today* I now ful PLL!* Yay! It took me about a month to learn. In the beginning when I learned two or three, when I added a new one I immediately lost one that I already learned. I have taken half an hour a day before bedtime to practice one alg at a time. Now I know all of them. The easiest ones that I learned in the beginning are for me obviously the fastest ones. I think it will take another month at least before all of them become fast.


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## cubecraze1 (Aug 21, 2012)

MarcelP said:


> And since today* I now ful PLL!* Yay! It took me about a month to learn. In the beginning when I learned two or three, when I added a new one I immediately lost one that I already learned. I have taken half an hour a day before bedtime to practice one alg at a time. Now I know all of them. The easiest ones that I learned in the beginning are for me obviously the fastest ones. I think it will take another month at least before all of them become fast.


Awesome! Are you going to move on to oll?


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## MarcelP (Aug 21, 2012)

Yes, full OLL is also on my todo list. But I focus on getting faster PLL first.


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## moralsh (Aug 21, 2012)

wow, you really have dedication! I'm currently at 13/21 (g, j & n perms left) and I guess It'll still take me about another month or two to complete. However I think I have the recognition part done, as I now more or less am able to find the "optimal" 2 known pll cicle for each of the unknown cases, I hope I'll be able to fit the algs there once learned.

I'm trying to focus more on cross + F2L as of now, but with a steady progress on PLL 

Congrats!


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## ThomasJE (Aug 21, 2012)

Wow, you're improving fast! Some tips:


- If you're planning on OLL, look at the OLL's with two opposite edges oriented first. That set is usually easier and faster. Plus, if you solve 4x4, you can do OLL parity, and then a full OLL case, leaving you with a 2L-OLL at most.

- Try downloading PPT (Prisma Puzzle Timer). It's easily one of the best timers out there. It saves scrambles, you can import scrambles, have scrambles that only scramble F2L slots/LL/PLL etc... It also generates better scrambles than CubeTimer.com. There's more information here.

- In competition, you get 15 seconds inspection time. It looks like you sometimes use more than that. PPT has an inspection time feature, so use that to make sure you don't go over.

- Try to lookahead a bit during F2L. I notice you pause quite a bit, so that's a potential improvement. Badmephisto has a good video about that I think on his YouTube channel, so check that out.

- Join some forum competitions! It's a great way to compare times with others, and also, the F2L and LL competitions are great ways to practice lookahead and recognise algorithms quicker. Also, the Race to Sub-30 thread should encourage you to break that barrier.

- Your TPS isn't the best (I'd say around 2-3). So, try doing drills to turn faster (PLL time attacks etc.). Also, look at PLL videos from top cubers (Faz, Rowe etc.) and look at how they fingertrick each algorithm.

Also, if you post some more solves, I don't mind reconstructing them. The stats from reconstructions can tell you a lot about your solves and where you need to improve. Remember to post the scramble as well! (that's easy with PPT)


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## MarcelP (Aug 21, 2012)

moralsh said:


> I'm currently at 13/21 (g, j & n perms left)



I really hate the G perms. Especially because there are 4 of them. I saved them for last as well. J and N are very easy. I learned both N perms in an hour or so. I have not forgotten them once. And J perms are my fastest. They are really easy. In fact, my PB 24 seconds solve end with a left handed (I am right handed) J perm.



ThomasJE said:


> Wow, you're improving fast! Some tips:
> 
> 
> - If you're planning on OLL, look at the OLL's with two opposite edges oriented first. That set is usually easier and faster. Plus, if you solve 4x4, you can do OLL parity, and then a full OLL case, leaving you with a 2L-OLL at most.



Thanks!, These kind of tips are gold!



ThomasJE said:


> - Try downloading PPT (Prisma Puzzle Timer). It's easily one of the best timers out there. It saves scrambles, you can import scrambles, have scrambles that only scramble F2L slots/LL/PLL etc... It also generates better scrambles than CubeTimer.com. There's more information here.



I have downloaded the timer but it only runs on my Win XP computer and not on my main cube computer which is Win 7. That really sucks because I like the program. On my Win XP I rarely cube since it has not webcam etc. I but I think I will have to start using it more. scrambling only 2Fl slots sounds a good deal.



ThomasJE said:


> - In competition, you get 15 seconds inspection time. It looks like you sometimes use more than that. PPT has an inspection time feature, so use that to make sure you don't go over.
> 
> - Try to lookahead a bit during F2L. I notice you pause quite a bit, so that's a potential improvement. Badmephisto has a good video about that I think on his YouTube channel, so check that out.



Yes, I am working hard on look ahead. It is slowly getting through to me.




ThomasJE said:


> - Join some forum competitions! It's a great way to compare times with others, and also, the F2L and LL competitions are great ways to practice lookahead and recognise algorithms quicker. Also, the Race to Sub-30 thread should encourage you to break that barrier.



Yes, that sounds like fun. I have not been active at all. Finding time is the main problem (12 hours away from home for work daily, family with small children, a study at night etc etc).



ThomasJE said:


> - Your TPS isn't the best (I'd say around 2-3). So, try doing drills to turn faster (PLL time attacks etc.). Also, look at PLL videos from top cubers (Faz, Rowe etc.) and look at how they fingertrick each algorithm.
> 
> Also, if you post some more solves, I don't mind reconstructing them. The stats from reconstructions can tell you a lot about your solves and where you need to improve. Remember to post the scramble as well! (that's easy with PPT)



Yes, my turning is even slower than 2 I quess. I suspect it will get better with time. I will make some new video's soon.I would love to see a reconstruct by you. Thanks.


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## Goosly (Aug 21, 2012)

MarcelP said:


> I have downloaded the timer but it only runs on my Win XP computer and not on my main cube computer which is Win 7.



Tried reinstalling java?  There's no reason for it not to work


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## ThomasJE (Aug 22, 2012)

Goosly said:


> Tried reinstalling java?  There's no reason for it not to work



That's what I was thinking. It works fine on Win7 for me.


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## MarcelP (Aug 22, 2012)

No, nothing wrong with my Java (me being a Java developer). It's just that the jar seems to want to access a db which does not exist or it is in a folder where the jar has no rights

c:\windows\system32\puzzletimer.lock.db


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## MarcelP (Aug 22, 2012)

Ahh I got it to work on Win 7. Instead of running the program with java.exe I now run it with javaw.exe. That helped.


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## uniacto (Aug 22, 2012)

hey quick question. what list of PLL's did you use to learn the algs for full PLL?


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## MarcelP (Aug 22, 2012)

uniacto said:


> hey quick question. what list of PLL's did you use to learn the algs for full PLL?



I printed out this one: http://mordred.awardspace.us/PLLCheatSheet.pdf For each new PLL that I learned I tried the first few in the list that stands with that PLL. I hardly ever find the first one in line the best. I try to avoid algs with B and F. These are not my thing.


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## MarcelP (Aug 23, 2012)

ThomasJE said:


> Also, if you post some more solves, I don't mind reconstructing them. The stats from reconstructions can tell you a lot about your solves and where you need to improve. Remember to post the scramble as well! (that's easy with PPT)



Ok, I think it has more meaning if I post an average solve. Today I had a lot of 43 and 44 second solves. This one was for me with an awefull cross:

B2 U' B2 D R2 B2 U' B2 D' F2 U2 L' F' R' D B D' B R2 U' L2 U2

[video=youtube_share;NekUXEcVXo0]http://youtu.be/NekUXEcVXo0[/video]


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## Schmidt (Aug 23, 2012)

A little cross help for /\ that scramble:
Scramble white U green F.
Turn the cube so that you hold white D and orange F.
U2 - GW on G center
L' D' - red is in place
now the 3 remaining cross pieces are just one move away from solved - choose wisely 
R' - blue solved
F' - orange solved
L' - green solved

EDIT: I just saw the video again. Why don't you scramble white U - green F ?? It is much easier for people to reconstruct.


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## moralsh (Aug 23, 2012)

another way to improve crosses is to try to be bi-color neutral or color neutral, I've been trying it all afternoon and is not as hard as it seems just a little more attention while building the pairs and that´s all. 

Unrelated question, I scramble with Yellow on U and Green on F, I think I read somewhere that it was the right way, is it?


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## Schmidt (Aug 23, 2012)

No. (And Yes if you have black instead of white.)
4d)	Cube puzzles must be scrambled with the white (or the lightest colour by default) face on top and green (or the darkest adjacent face by default) on the front. 
http://worldcubeassociation.org/regulations/


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## ThomasJE (Aug 24, 2012)

Schmidt said:


> No. (And Yes if you have black instead of white.)
> 4d)	Cube puzzles must be scrambled with the white (or the lightest colour by default) face on top and green (or the darkest adjacent face by default) on the front.
> http://worldcubeassociation.org/regulations/



Although, is black is a replacement for white, black is often on top.

And as for the video, I'm sorting it now.


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## MarcelP (Aug 24, 2012)

Schmidt said:


> A little cross help for /\ that scramble:
> Scramble white U green F.
> Turn the cube so that you hold white D and orange F.
> U2 - GW on G center
> ...



I did not know that. Thanks for mentioning this. I will do the scramble again tonight with White on U and green on F. If it is faster than 43 seconds then I will post the video 

@ moralsh, I think I will try the bi-color thing for a while, I am still quite bad at crosses and they do take up a great deal of my solves.


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## Schmidt (Aug 24, 2012)

ThomasJE said:


> Although, is black is a replacement for white, black is often on top.


Yes, at home. But I guess that if you have black instead of white and that cubesmith baby-blue instead of dark blue, the cube should be scrambled blue U - black F (according to 4d) at a competition.


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## ThomasJE (Aug 24, 2012)

MarcelP 43.76 Single



Spoiler: Video



[video=youtube_share;NekUXEcVXo0]http://youtu.be/NekUXEcVXo0[/video]


B2 U' B2 D R2 B2 U' B2 D' F2 U2 L' F' R' D B D' B R2 U' L2 U2

z y' // Inspection
U R U U' L U z2' x' l' U l y R U' R' y R2 // Cross
U' U' y' R' U2 R U' R' U R // F2L 1
U' R U' R' U' U y' R' U' R U' U' R' U R // F2L 2
U' R U' R' U R U R' // F2L 3
y' R U' R' U' U U' R U' R' U U y' R' U2 R U' U' R' U R // F2L 4
y2 f R U R' U' (y x) R' // EO
U F R U R' U' R U R' U' R U R' U' y L' // CO
R U R' U' R' F R2 U' R' U' R U R' F' // PLL
View at alg.garron.us



Spoiler: Stats





```
[B]Step	Time	HTM	HTPS	ETM	ETPS[/B]
[COLOR="#FF0000"]Total	43.76	88	2.01	109	2.49[/COLOR]
Cross+1	13.03	19	1.46	27	2.07
F2L	30.41	53	1.74	71	2.33
LL	13.35	35	2.62	38	2.85

[B]%	Time	HTM	ETM		[/B]
F2L	69.5%	60.2%	65.1%		
LL	30.5%	39.8%	34.9%
```




So around 2 TPS. I'll look at the HTM count, as the ETM takes into account rotations, and U U' counts as two, but in HTM, cancellations are included, so U U' is 0 HTM. More info on [WIKI]HTM[/WIKI] and [WIKI]ETM[/WIKI] in the links.

First thing: move efficiency. Every cross can be solved in 8 moves (6 on average). You took 11. It looks like you do a piece at a time. So, in inspection, try to plan at least 3 edges. Then solve the last edge and you're done Badmephisto has a video about that on his YouTube channel, so check that out. F2L was done in 53 HTM. Many cubers that are familiar with F2L can do it in under 40 turns consistently. Go to the wiki [WIKI]F2L[/WIKI] page, look at the cases and in your head, think of how you would solve that case. Then, compare your way to the algorithms listed. If your way takes more moves than the best case (usually one of the most efficient cases, but there are exceptions), then look at the more better alg and go through that alg over and over, so you get the hang of it. For example, for F2L 4, you made 15 moves. Had you done U2 R U' R' U' F' U F (a beginner's method middle layer alg), you would have done only 8. That could save you 3 seconds. Half your cross time, and there's 7 or 8 seconds waiting to be shaved off.

Your LL was fine, apart from one thing: TPS. Drilling your LL algorithms (so do them all, one after another, just like a PLL attack) you make you more familiar with the moves, and give you the comfidence to turn faster. If you can get your TPS up to around 4, then your LL times could drop to 8 seconds. I don't even know full PLL, and my LL times are around 7-8 seconds. Which brings me to my next tip: don't learn any new things (obviously apart from better 'algorithms' for F2L). Knowing the same amount as you (I also know some random OLL algs), I get sub-20 singles every now and then, and I average around 23. Learning algorithms is a shortcut to getting faster, but to be truly faster, there are a lot more things to do. The best path was never the easiest one.

So, follow these tips and you should be sub-30 in no time!


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## MarcelP (Aug 24, 2012)

Thomas, thanks a million. You are a star! I will cube later this evening and try to do the same scramble again with the white and green colors


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## MarcelP (Aug 24, 2012)

Well, what do you know... I did the scramble again and I was 12 seconds faster this time.. You see? With me it is all a matter of luck. LOL. I had a better concentration on the cross this time and the F2L pairs where just lying there to be hammered..

[video=youtube_share;HZ50-qIn3Bg]http://youtu.be/HZ50-qIn3Bg[/video]

I tried the same scramble a few times after that and all I got was a 38 seconds and the rest around 40.. 



ThomasJE said:


> Your LL was fine, apart from one thing: TPS. Drilling your LL algorithms (so do them all, one after another, just like a PLL attack) you make you more familiar with the moves, and give you the comfidence to turn faster.



What is PLL attack? Sounds interesting.



ThomasJE said:


> Which brings me to my next tip: don't learn any new things (obviously apart from better 'algorithms' for F2L). Knowing the same amount as you (I also know some random OLL algs), I get sub-20 singles every now and then, and I average around 23. Learning algorithms is a shortcut to getting faster, but to be truly faster, there are a lot more things to do. The best path was never the easiest one.
> 
> So, follow these tips and you should be sub-30 in no time!



That is the best advise I have gotten here I think. I am not intended to learn any alg again untill I do some evident faster averages. Thanks Thomas, you are a wise guy!


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## brunovervoort (Aug 24, 2012)

PLL attack is doing all 21 PLL's as fast as possible in one time.
Really fast people get like around 25-30 seconds.


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## Schmidt (Aug 24, 2012)

Do you know the right notation? I don't get the same state with the same scramble. Try looking at the scrambled cube in PPT. Your cube should look the same.


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## Endgame (Aug 24, 2012)

ThomasJE said:


> Learning algorithms is a shortcut to getting faster, but to be truly faster, there are a lot more things to do. The best path was never the easiest one.



If you want to be truly faster, learn a block building method


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## ThomasJE (Aug 24, 2012)

Endgame said:


> If you want to be truly faster, learn a block building method



I couldn't give worse advice. Use the method that is most comfortable. "Methods don't have speeds"


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## Endgame (Aug 24, 2012)

ThomasJE said:


> I couldn't give worse advice. Use the method that is most comfortable. "Methods don't have speeds"





ThomasJE said:


> The best path was never the easiest one.



I smell contradiction.


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## ThomasJE (Aug 24, 2012)

Endgame said:


> I smell contradiction.



It doesn't matter whether you learn 1 method or 10 methods; it requires dedication to be truly fast.


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## Endgame (Aug 24, 2012)

ThomasJE said:


> It doesn't matter whether you learn 1 method or 10 methods; it requires dedication to be truly fast.



Well what do you recommend? Dedication or the most comfortable method?


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## MarcelP (Aug 25, 2012)

Endgame said:


> If you want to be truly faster, learn a block building method



Building blocks is very difficult. Yes I can solve the cube with Roux method. I have tried a few days. But I think CFOP is my thing for now. I have deep respect for the ones that sub 15 with Roux but I think I will never be a fast Roux-er.



Schmidt said:


> Do you know the right notation? I don't get the same state with the same scramble. Try looking at the scrambled cube in PPT. Your cube should look the same.



Yes, I know the notation of course (how would I ever have learned full PLL  ) But that 31 sec solve propably had a slip of the finger then. That would explain that I could not do it again in 31 secs. I will post one of the 38 sec solves on this scramble later. Just to see if it looks like what it should look like 

Edit: here is the video


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## ThomasJE (Aug 25, 2012)

MarcelP 38.23 single



Spoiler: Video











B2 U' B2 D R2 B2 U' B2 D' F2 U2 L' F' R' D B D' B R2 U' L2 U2

y x2 // Inspection
L' U' l' U' (x' y') U' y' R2 U F2 // Cross
U y' L' U L // F2L 1
U U' y R' U' U' U R U' R' U R // F2L 2
R U' R' U' R U' R' R U' R' U y L' U' L // F2L 3 (and set up F2L 4)
y' U y' U R U' U R' d' L' U L // F2L 4
r y R U R' d' x R' // EO
U R U2 R2 U' R2 U' R2 U' U' R // CO
L U' R' U L' U2 R U' R' U2 R U // PLL
View at alg.garron.us



Spoiler: Stats





```
[B]Step	Time	HTM	HTPS	ETM	ETPS[/B]
[COLOR="#FF0000"]Total	38.23	65	1.70	80	2.09[/COLOR]
Cross+1	10.03	12	1.20	15	1.50
F2L	24.85	35	1.41	49	1.97
LL	13.38	28	2.09	31	2.32

[B]%	Time	HTM	ETM[/B]		
F2L	65.0%	53.8%	61.3%		
LL	35.0%	43.1%	38.8%
```




Well... Less moves, less TPS... and less time! Just proves that speed is not the only thing. F2L was MUCH more efficient, and LL was good too. And doing PLL's before AUF and not after will also help in the future. You also do f R U R' U' f' in a weird way. Do it just like a bar EO (F R U R' U' F'), but put your index finger on the S slice for wide f turns, like you put your finger on the F layer for standard F turns. I think your main focus should be on F2L at the monent. So, concentrate on that, and then post another video in 2-3 weeks time, and we'll compare the solves.


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## Schmidt (Aug 25, 2012)

It looks like the scramble is correct now.
Now work on crosses: 
L' U' l' U' (x' y') U' y' R2 U F2 // Yours
U2 L' D' R' F' L' // the way I would do it


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## MarcelP (Aug 25, 2012)

ThomasJE said:


> Well... Less moves, less TPS... and less time! Just proves that speed is not the only thing. F2L was MUCH more efficient, and LL was good too. And doing PLL's before AUF and not after will also help in the future. You also do f R U R' U' f' in a weird way. Do it just like a bar EO (F R U R' U' F'), but put your index finger on the S slice for wide f turns, like you put your finger on the F layer for standard F turns. I think your main focus should be on F2L at the monent. So, concentrate on that, and then post another video in 2-3 weeks time, and we'll compare the solves.



Thanks Thomas. That is what I will do. I have been focusing on F2L almost all the time since I started in mid June. But the last month had been in the light of PLL. I am happy that after each OLL I now always know what to do  But you are right about that my main gain is in F2L. It is also the most difficult part of the complete solve. I know what you mean with the weird turn f R U R' U' f'. I have been doing that since the beginning and it is hard to get rid of  I will do the F R U R' U' F' for a while and see if can get rid of that nasty habit.



Schmidt said:


> It looks like the scramble is correct now.
> Now work on crosses:
> L' U' l' U' (x' y') U' y' R2 U F2 // Yours
> U2 L' D' R' F' L' // the way I would do it



If only I could do that. You guys are so good at that. Really, that is not something I will pick up any time soon. I dedicate cross training as a part of my daily routine. I have gotten much better, but I am not nearly as efficient as all of you guys.


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## Goosly (Aug 25, 2012)

MarcelP said:


> If only I could do that. You guys are so good at that. Really, that is not something I will pick up any time soon. I dedicate cross training as a part of my daily routine. I have gotten much better, but I am not nearly as efficient as all of you guys.



Come to Amstelveen Open, it's much easier if we can see you solve (a cross) and then explain what you can improve. Youtube tutorials are good, but individual teaching is even better


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## Schmidt (Aug 25, 2012)

MarcelP said:


> ....and see if can get rid of that nasty habit....


That goes for crosses as well. The more 12 - 15 move crosses you make the harder it will be to get rid of those habits. All crosses should be 8 moves or less( except for a few finger trick friendly exceptions)


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## MarcelP (Aug 26, 2012)

Goosly said:


> Come to Amstelveen Open, it's much easier if we can see you solve (a cross) and then explain what you can improve. Youtube tutorials are good, but individual teaching is even better



I am in doubt. I promised my wife we would go out and celebrate our wedding aniversery. I might shuffle around with the dates. 



Schmidt said:


> That goes for crosses as well. The more 12 - 15 move crosses you make the harder it will be to get rid of those habits. All crosses should be 8 moves or less( except for a few finger trick friendly exceptions)



Yes, you are right. I had promised my self to start working on few step crosses. I did about a hundred timed solves today and on all of them I concentrated on the cross. I thought out at least 3 pieces before I started to solve. Kind of fun actually. But it cost more energy. After the 100 solves I was really done.


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## Schmidt (Aug 26, 2012)

MarcelP said:


> I am in doubt. I promised my wife we would go out and celebrate our wedding aniversery. I might shuffle around with the dates.



Wives! A few years ago I played the kids card game"Yu-Gi-Oh!". I was so good that I qualified for the European Championship. I had to explain to her that I had to go to Germany Friday to Monday , leaving her with our 3 months old son. She gave me permission 


MarcelP said:


> Yes, you are right. I had promised my self to start working on few step crosses. I did about a hundred timed solves today and on all of them I concentrated on the cross. I thought out at least 3 pieces before I started to solve. Kind of fun actually. But it cost more energy. After the 100 solves I was really done.



You don't have to time every solve.
You are old enough to get this:

[PROTIP]


Spoiler



Get a toilet cube and work on untimed stuff!


[/PROTIP]


----------



## MarcelP (Sep 2, 2012)

A small update..

I did an early bird Sunday morning session of 12 without warming up:

Mean: 42.27
Standard deviation: 2.13
Best Time: 37.31
Worst Time: 45.21

Best average of 5: 41.34
6-10 - 41.26 41.67 (37.31) (45.21) 41.09

Best average of 12: 42.48
1-12 - 41.64 44.92 44.01 41.93 43.78 41.26 41.67 (37.31) (45.21) 41.09 43.93 40.54

I really like the fact that I see improvement. Even better, my times are getting really consistent. I have dropped 6 seconds of my averages of 12 in about two weeks. Yay!


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## Goosly (Sep 2, 2012)

You improve so fast 



MarcelP said:


> I am in doubt. I promised my wife we would go out and celebrate our wedding aniversery. I might shuffle around with the dates.



Good luck with that


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## MarcelP (Sep 2, 2012)

Goosly said:


> Good luck with that



She did not fall for that trick. So Amstelveen is not an option.



Goosly said:


> You improve so fast



I am quite happy with my improvement. But then again, I really devote time into getting faster. ;-)


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## moralsh (Sep 2, 2012)

Marcel, you continue to be my reference 

other oldie also improving 

Average of 5: 46.37


Spoiler



1. 41.68 D' L2 R2 D' B2 R2 U L2 R2 U' B2 F R2 U' L F' D' L B' F2 L2 
2. (36.94) R' F' L2 F2 L' B' U' L D2 B R2 F2 B2 U2 D' B2 D F2 L2 U' 
3. 46.05 B R' U' R D2 L' U2 F' B' L D2 F2 D2 L2 U R2 U' F2 U L2 D' 
4. (55.39) D2 L' B' U F' D F' B' R2 L' B D2 F2 U2 F' D2 R2 B' L2 F' D2 
5. 51.38 B2 L2 D2 L' B2 D2 B2 L2 D2 R' D2 F L D B' F D U' L' B2 F



although my times are still all over the place. My goal is to be sub 30 by christmas, I don't think I can do much more than that.


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## MarcelP (Sep 2, 2012)

Hi Moralsh (what's your real name  

That is pretty good. Less than 15 seconds deviation. You will get there for sure by Christimass. I will be happy with sub 40 averages by then.


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## moralsh (Sep 2, 2012)

MarcelP said:


> Hi Moralsh (what's your real name



it's Raúl (Like a famous football player, now almost retired) mi nick is almost my surname, google tells you if you are curious 



> That is pretty good. Less than 15 seconds deviation. You will get there for sure by Christimass. I will be happy with sub 40 averages by then.



You're just being humble, if you're not sub 30 by then, odds are neither will I.

We'll see, we'll see


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## MarcelP (Sep 2, 2012)

moralsh said:


> You're just being humble, if you're not sub 30 by then, odds are neither will I.
> 
> We'll see, we'll see



No Raúl, I am being realistic. I am pretty sure that it will be very hard for me to make progress in this stage. I am confident that times will drop, how ever nothing more than one or two seconds per month. So averages of sub 30 is for me not realistic. I would be very nice if they happen around Christmas though


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## ThomasJE (Sep 2, 2012)

MarcelP said:


> Hi Moralsh (what's your real name
> 
> That is pretty good. Less than 15 seconds deviation. You will get there for sure by Christimass. I will be happy with sub 40 averages by then.



You'll be sub-30 by then. I went from 1 min to sub-30 in 4 months, and you've got half that distance to go in the same time. And you are improving faster than I was.


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## F perm (Sep 2, 2012)

I got sub-30 in a month (not bragging), and I suck at everything, so anything is possible.
Practicing like you are, and improving like you are, I agree with ThomasJE, you can do it.
Good luck!


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## MarcelP (Sep 2, 2012)

ThomasJE said:


> You'll be sub-30 by then. I went from 1 min to sub-30 in 4 months, and you've got half that distance to go in the same time. And you are improving faster than I was.



I highly doubt it. Like I said, right now I am at a stage where improving is hard. But hey, that's the fun right?



F perm said:


> I got sub-30 in a month (not bragging), and I suck at everything, so anything is possible.
> Practicing like you are, and improving like you are, I agree with ThomasJE, you can do it.
> Good luck!



Your improvement is amazing. I doubt even Feliks Z was sub 30 in his first month. You are definatly someone with potention!


I did a few videos. It had been a while since videoing is quite a hassle LOL

Mean: 42.08
Standard deviation: 1.80

1. 40.87 R2 B2 D2 R2 F2 D F2 U' L2 D' L2 B L D2 L' F R2 D' U F D' U
2. 40.75 F2 L2 U' L2 F2 D F2 D' U' F2 L B2 R' U' F' L B D2 F' R L'
3. 44.63 B2 D2 L2 D L2 F2 R2 B2 L2 U' R2 B' D B' L' D' F U' R D2 L'
[video=youtube_share;1-dslXxcY-U]http://youtu.be/1-dslXxcY-U[/video]

And another:

http://youtu.be/CYe9rougfd4

Averags 41.70

1. 43.25 
2. 42.68 
3. 39.18


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## ThomasJE (Sep 2, 2012)

MarcelP said:


> I highly doubt it. Like I said, right now I am at a stage where improving is hard. But hey, that's the fun right?



I suppose it is. 



MarcelP said:


> Your improvement is amazing. I doubt even Feliks Z was sub 30 in his first month. You are definatly someone with potention!



I know he was sub-20 in four months.



MarcelP said:


> I did a few videos. It had been a while since videoing is quite a hassle LOL



That's a job for me tomorrow  It'll be interesting how you have improved in this week.


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## ThomasJE (Sep 3, 2012)

42.08 Mean of 3



Spoiler: Video



[video=youtube_share;1-dslXxcY-U]http://youtu.be/1-dslXxcY-U[/video]





Spoiler: Solve 1 (40.87)



R2 B2 D2 R2 F2 D F2 U' L2 D' L2 B L D2 L' F R2 D' U F D' U

x2 y // Inspection
D' R2' x U x' U' x' R U' x2 R' U2 x' U' l' U l // Cross
U' y' U R' U R y' R' U' R U' R' U R // F2L 1
U' y' L' U U L U' L' U L // F2L 2
U y R U' R' U' R U' R' R U' R' U y L' U' L // F2L 3
y2' U' R U' U' R' U U y' R' U2 R U' U' R' U R // F2L 4
F R U R' U' y' R' // OLL
U' U' U U x R D' R U2 R' D R U2 (R l) U2 // PLL
View at alg.garron.us

Stats:

```
[B]Step	Time	HTM	HTPS	ETM	ETPS[/B]
[COLOR="#FF0000"]Total	40.87	70	1.71	98	2.40[/COLOR]
Cross+1	13.08	22	1.68	31	2.37
F2L	29.49	54	1.83	75	2.54
LL	11.38	16	1.41	23	2.02

[B]%	Time	HTM	ETM[/B]		
F2L	72.2%	77.1%	76.5%		
LL	27.8%	22.9%	23.5%
```



I'm doing the other ones now.

EDIT: I think you did the second scramble wrong.


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## MarcelP (Sep 3, 2012)

OMG, they say you can do the cross in 4 - 8 moves. I take about 20... Imbarassing..


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## Goosly (Sep 3, 2012)

MarcelP said:


> OMG, they say you can do the cross in 4 - 8 moves. I take about 20... Imbarassing..



You seem to solve the cross literally piece by piece. You can still improve a lot, just by learning to solve a cross decently


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## MarcelP (Sep 3, 2012)

Yes, I know. I really practice a lot on cross. And when I do concentrate more I do them a lot efficient. Those are the times when my solves get in the low thirties. Right now cross is my weakest point I guess. It is not something for me that I can improve easily.


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## Schmidt (Sep 3, 2012)

Cross help...again 
If WO is oriented and WG is un-oriented and both are in U, you can solve them both by having Green on F, put WO on top of O center,do R', put WG above O center and do R'(complete WO) F (complete G)


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## sneaklyfox (Sep 3, 2012)

Maybe look at this thread and see how others do their crosses.


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## MarcelP (Sep 3, 2012)

Schmidt said:


> Cross help...again
> If WO is oriented and WG is un-oriented and both are in U, you can solve them both by having Green on F, put WO on top of O center,do R', put WG above O center and do R'(complete WO) F (complete G)



I think I can figure that out, just not in 15 seconds..



sneaklyfox said:


> Maybe look at this thread and see how others do their crosses.




Ok, that might help..


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## Goosly (Sep 3, 2012)

We all once solved our cross just like you do now, so don't worry  You will get better at it


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## sneaklyfox (Sep 3, 2012)

MarcelP said:


> I think I can figure that out, just not in 15 seconds..



Good if you can figure out a good cross (8 moves or less usually). Doesn't matter if it takes you a lot longer than 15 seconds at first. Take as much time as you need to figure out an efficient cross. Do more like that and eventually it won't take as long to figure it out.


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## PeelingStickers (Sep 3, 2012)

Solving the cross in one go takes time to work out, I feel the most important thing to knowing how to do it is understanding your orientation.

It may sound obvious because it is: remember that red/white is opposite orange white and blue/white is opposite green/white. If you are colour neutral (I'm not  ) remember the other opposites, white yellow. Don't just remember them while not solving, anyone can do that. Remember them AS you solve the cube, know where each piece should go in relation to eachother and their adjacent colours so you can just do a D or a D', I ignore the centre's until the last turn as they can be distractive and restrictive.

Your improving fast, You started about a month after me and are improving at around the same rate, you should have no problem getting to sub 30 anytime soon, certainly sub 40 in the next fortnight or so


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## MarcelP (Sep 4, 2012)

sneaklyfox said:


> Do more like that and eventually it won't take as long to figure it out.



Thats exactly what Guus is telling me. I will do more and longer cross training for now and see how it improves in the next few weeks.



PeelingStickers said:


> You started about a month after me and are improving at around the same rate, you should have no problem getting to sub 30 anytime soon, certainly sub 40 in the next fortnight or so



Thanks! I would be very happy with just sub 40 for now.


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## MarcelP (Sep 4, 2012)

Someone posted a lucky scramble in the race to sub 30 topic

L2 D' B2 R2 U' F2 U B2 F2 D F2 R' L' D' R2 B R U F

I tried the scramble and got a 25 seconds on the first solve: http://youtu.be/Hm-BoSL9gcc

But I got a 22 seconds on the second try..  Of course I do not count it as a PB but it is nice to see with easy cross and easy pairing that my fingers are capable of low twenty solves. What more can a man ask for.. LOL

[video=youtube_share;3rcGew83s-s]http://youtu.be/3rcGew83s-s[/video]


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## ThomasJE (Sep 4, 2012)

MarcelP said:


> Someone posted a lucky scramble in the race to sub 30 topic
> 
> L2 D' B2 R2 U' F2 U B2 F2 D F2 R' L' D' R2 B R U F
> 
> ...



Well, we now know you need to work on your cross. I got 17.38 on my first try (got an OLL case I knew and an A perm), but I hesitated during F2L, so it could have easily have been sub-15.


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## MarcelP (Sep 4, 2012)

Thomas, could you pratice the scramble a few times and then make a video like I did? I would love to see the difference compared to my video. Would also be fun to proove that sub 15 solve


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## ThomasJE (Sep 4, 2012)

MarcelP said:


> Thomas, could you pratice the scramble a few times and then make a video like I did? I would love to see the difference compared to my video. Would also be fun to proove that sub 15 solve



Yeah, I'll try that tomorrow. I'll stackmat it too.


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## Crazycubemom (Sep 4, 2012)

wooow Marchel and Thomas, AWESOME! Keep it hot!


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## sneaklyfox (Sep 5, 2012)

ThomasJE said:


> Well, we now know you need to work on your cross. I got 17.38 on my first try (got an OLL case I knew and an A perm), but I hesitated during F2L, so it could have easily have been sub-15.



Practice makes a lot of difference. If you remember what you did, it's not look ahead anymore though. It's memory. I got 16.74 on my first try but I also hesitated during F2L. Second try... 12.04...


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## MarcelP (Sep 5, 2012)

sneaklyfox said:


> Second try... 12.04...



Don't you think that after a few more practices that you could solve this scramble sub 10?  Would be fun right?


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## Dimeg (Sep 5, 2012)

I see you have improved marcel  sub 1 already achieved! nice job


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## ThomasJE (Sep 5, 2012)

So, I tried that scramble, and got a 13.49 scramble on camera (got a 13.28 off camera). I got a multislot that was cancelled out by a 4LLL (damn G perms (and N) I don't know). I'll be getting that up soon with a reconstruction.

EDIT: The reconstruction:

L2 D' B2 R2 U' F2 U B2 F2 D F2 R' L' D' R2 B R U F

x' // Inspection
D' R' U' r' // Cross
U R U' R' // F2L 1
L' U2 L R' U R // F2L 2&3 (accidental multislot)
y' L' U2 L U2 L' U L // F2L 4
U' y' F U R U' R' F' // EO
y' x U R' U' L U R U' r' // CO
y' x L2' D2' L' U' L D2' L' U r' // CP
y2 R U' R U R U R U' R' U' R2' // EP
View at alg.garron.us

56 HTM / 13.46 = 4.16 TPS

Had I got the 13.28 on camera, I would have had 4.22 TPS.

And I can't attach the file because it's too big. And I don't have YouTube.


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## MarcelP (Sep 5, 2012)

ThomasJE said:


> And I don't have YouTube.



Common man! In two minutes you are up and running with a totally free YouTube account. Every self respected speedsolver needs that


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## MarcelP (Sep 7, 2012)

Ok, this week, I did one hour dedicated Cross training every day. Nothing else. 

I just did a timed av of 12 and broke my av of 3 and av of 5 and av of 12!

Mean: 37.66
Average: 37.69
Best time: 30.24
Median: 38.56
Worst time: 44.86
Standard deviation: 5.00

Best average of 5: 35.93
1-5 - 31.34 34.61 (30.24) 41.84 (44.86)

Best average of 12: 37.69
1-12 - 31.34 34.61 (30.24) 41.84 (44.86) 41.05 41.99 34.89 37.26 43.43 30.59 39.86

1. 31.34 U' B2 F2 R2 D L2 F2 U' B2 D U2 F' R' F R L2 B' L2 U2 B'
2. 34.61 D' L2 F2 D2 B2 L2 B2 U R2 B2 U R B' D U2 L U' F2 L2 D B' U
3. 30.24 B2 F2 D' R2 U' F2 R2 L2 U' L2 U' B D' F' R D' B2 D B R F D'
4. 41.84 D L2 F2 U2 L2 D' R2 D' R2 F2 D R' F' U B L2 D' R2 B2 R B2 U
5. 44.86 D' R2 B2 D' B2 F2 U' B2 U2 L2 F' L2 U F' U2 L D2 F D L2
6. 41.05 D' R2 U L2 U' F2 L2 D' F2 L2 D F' D R' B L' F D2 L U R2 U'
7. 41.99 R2 F2 U L2 D2 R2 U F2 R2 U L' U R U F L' U' F2 D2 L B' U'
8. 34.89 L2 U2 R2 F2 U' B2 D' B2 R2 F2 R' L2 B R' L' B R2 U B' F' D'
9. 37.26 U' R2 B2 U F2 L2 U R2 U2 F2 U L B U' R U' L' F2 U2 B' L2 U
10. 43.43 B2 D2 F2 U' L2 D' U2 F2 L2 U' F2 R' B' D2 B F L2 U' R' D B
11. 30.59 D L2 U2 R2 D R2 L2 F2 R2 D' L2 F U' R U2 B D U R B L' U'
12. 39.86 D' B2 F2 D2 B2 L2 U' F2 D L2 F2 R' B' R' L2 U2 R F D' B'

These are easy crosses, or I am getting better at crosses. I might add, I took more than 15 seconds per solve inspection time. Sometimes up to maybe a minute.


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## Goosly (Sep 7, 2012)

37.69 avg12, NICE 

the inspection time doesnt matter, since this is for practice  have you tried solving the cross blindfolded? as in, figure it out as inspection, then solve it just because you already know all the moves you want to do.


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## MarcelP (Sep 7, 2012)

Goosly said:


> 37.69 avg12, NICE
> 
> have you tried solving the cross blindfolded?



Yes, I have been practicing by looking at the cube, remember at least 3 edges than look away and start solving. I am just not ready for 4 edges at one time, but this is already a big improvement because I do take much less turns now. The only bad side effect is that I have lost a few PLL's LOL.... Doing crossed only does make me forget everything else.. ha ha ha..


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## sneaklyfox (Sep 7, 2012)

Awesomeness... beating your PBs. Nice training you have going. Try another week of cross training and see what happens! (But don't forget your PLLs... do you know full PLL - all 21?)


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## MarcelP (Sep 7, 2012)

Yes, I will continue with the cross training. And I know full PLL for two weeks or so.. So some of them are still quite slow. Stupid N-perms for example. Most of them are fully wedged into memory but some of the G-perms F-perm seem to hard to remember on the R U and R U' and R' U and R' U' parts.


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## MWilson (Sep 7, 2012)

Are you actually memorizing the notation? Try remembering them visually. Just find something to follow.

For example, in Gb (F' U' F R2 u R' U R U' R u' R2), the first F' U' F just removes a pair resting it on top of a 2x2 square on the right. The R2 flips the pair and square upside down so that the square is on top of the pair. The u moves the square off of the pair, and then the pair stands up at the back with the next R'. The square then splits in half with the U and the R brings the pair back to the bottom. The square reforms with the U', and the proceeding R creates a big sexy 2x3 block. The u just puts it all back to the original side and R2 places it. Gd (f R f' R2 u' R U' R' U R' u R2) is the same thing mirrored, just a different way of removing the pair at the start.

There are a lot of ways to remember algs, but visually works best for me and I would imagine many others.


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## Endgame (Sep 7, 2012)

Something I do to remember algorithms is drilling the finger tricks for them


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## MarcelP (Sep 7, 2012)

Dominate said:


> Are you actually memorizing the notation?



No I remember the algs just by performing them hundreds of times. But when I think master them it seems that I am mixing R U and R U' etc up. Only after a week of cross training  I need to give my PLL's some attention too.


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## uniacto (Sep 7, 2012)

that's really good. I'm still working on full PLL as well! I know 2 look, + both A perms, but that's a bout it. Your PLL cheatsheet was really helpful, thanks for that


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## MarcelP (Sep 11, 2012)

I was getting very slow averages the last few days and then this average of three popped up:

Average: 29.87

1. 24.87 D L2 U2 R2 D R2 L2 F2 R2 D' L2 F U' R U2 B D U R B L' U'
2. 32.45 U' B2 U2 R2 L2 F2 D2 R2 D R2 D' L' U2 R F' D F U B2 F
3. 32.28 D L2 B2 L2 U' R2 B2 U' R2 F2 U2 F' D B2 L2 D L' B2 U' R

A true freak accident 

[video=youtube_share;AWX6qpDjr2A]http://youtu.be/AWX6qpDjr2A[/video]


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## sneaklyfox (Sep 11, 2012)

Nice! No freak accident. You're getting better! I enjoy following your progress. Although cross training and F2L look ahead is really important, I think sometime down the line you'll need better LL fingertricks.


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## MarcelP (Sep 11, 2012)

sneaklyfox said:


> Nice! No freak accident. You're getting better! I enjoy following your progress. Although cross training and F2L look ahead is really important, I think sometime down the line you'll need better LL fingertricks.



Thanks! Yes, my PLL need great attention as well. But you know, I am really happy that I know the PLLs and that is much faster than multiple look PLL. So I decided that for me it is much to soon to do real PLL training. I watched your PLL attack video. That is just awesome. I know I NEVER will be that fast. I think I need to keep working on crosses as well as it does not come naturally for me. Crosses are still difficult although I am improving.


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## Kattenvriendin (Sep 18, 2012)

Endgame said:


> Something I do to remember algorithms is drilling the finger tricks for them



Bumping into this thread a week late, but just to say "yep I do this too". The letters don't tell me much.. but when I repeatedly do the moves starting on a solved state cube I will remember much better. Also.. it is fun to do because you recognize other cases where you might use this algorithm as well instead of another.


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## MarcelP (Sep 22, 2012)

Ok, my first official times. 

Average of 5 40.04
41.80 37.72 40.59 (60.43) (34.09)

Fastest solve:

[video=youtube_share;Jj6Z0Ron-S4]http://youtu.be/Jj6Z0Ron-S4[/video]

I am really happy with this result. I was sooo nervous that I almost had no control over my hands. I messed one up and had to start solving from the cross over and still finished in one minute.. LOL.. Yes, competition is fun!!


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## ThomasJE (Sep 22, 2012)

Nice! That may be hard to reconstruct though - it's not the angle I'm used to, and the camera is really zoomed out. I'll give it a go though. Next time, maybe put the camera right in front of the table (unless it's a bit un-nerving ).


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## MarcelP (Sep 22, 2012)

ThomasJE said:


> Nice! That may be hard to reconstruct though



That is almost impossble. I asked this sweet lady to film my solve and she filmed from the audience of course.. I thought it would be fun to have my first few competition solves on video.. Btw, I realised that a few weeks ago I had 48 seconds average. And solving at home is much easier so I should be really happy with an official 40.04 average


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## sneaklyfox (Sep 22, 2012)

Nice! Now you're official. I'm looking forward to my first comp. I'm still not official yet but I will go one day for sure!


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## MarcelP (Sep 22, 2012)

Yes, I was also looking forward to this event. But I will tell you, solving with an audience (and maybe a camera) is something completely different than solving scomfertable at home.


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## guusrs (Sep 22, 2012)

MarcelP said:


> Ok, my first official times.
> 
> Average of 5 40.04
> 41.80 37.72 40.59 (60.43) (34.09)
> ...



Well done Marcel. I'm proud of you.


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## MarcelP (Sep 23, 2012)

Thanks Guus. Training with your stackmat timer helped a lot too.


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## Kattenvriendin (Sep 23, 2012)

I am SO glad that I did not turn up on film hahaha. I am VERY camera shy that way. I have no problems appearing on them, but then my name must absolutely NOT be mentioned along with the video. Stupid almost legal stuff in the past involving family and an outsider publishing without consent can do that to you.

But you did great! And yeah.. practicing with a timer sure helps! Hopefully mine will be in soon.

Oh mind.. clear up some space, your message box is full haha


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## MarcelP (Sep 24, 2012)

Kattenvriendin said:


> Oh mind.. clear up some space, your message box is full haha



Ooops, stupid 75 limit.. LOL cleared it...


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## uniacto (Sep 24, 2012)

nice job! sorry reply is a bit late. you're improving fast! I'm looking for a comp for me to become official, like some others here. I'm striving for sub 20 consistently before I go to a comp though. It's always fun to meet other people though


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## Kattenvriendin (Sep 24, 2012)

And now it's sent. been waiting in notepad, that reply lol


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## MarcelP (Sep 24, 2012)

Kattenvriendin said:


> And now it's sent. been waiting in notepad, that reply lol



Thanks!



uniacto said:


> I'm striving for sub 20 consistently before I go to a comp though. It's always fun to meet other people though



Yes, it is not all about times. I have seen many people not finish sub 20 in the competition. Just do it. The thrill of performing there on the spot is incredible..


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## moralsh (Sep 24, 2012)

Congrats Marcel! I'm also proud of you (and very jealous!) keep it up (so will I)


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## MarcelP (Sep 24, 2012)

moralsh said:


> (and very jealous!)



LOL.. what is your average of 12 now? I have decided that I am happy with my 3 x 3 times and I will start on 2 X 2 and 4 X 4. So, I might not improve (or decrease) anymore..


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## moralsh (Sep 24, 2012)

MarcelP said:


> LOL.. what is your average of 12 now? I have decided that I am happy with my 3 x 3 times and I will start on 2 X 2 and 4 X 4. So, I might not improve (or decrease) anymore..



Best is 43ish, But I'm usually around 45-46

Best Ao5 is around 41. Mean of 3 36 and PB 31, I think. I'll time myself this week to see If I have improved, as I'm just two PLL shy of knowing full PLL (G-Perms c & d, I'll get) But I still think my lookahead is poor and that there lies my chances of improvement, we'll see 

I also plan to get a good 4x4 (I have a crappy dealextreme one), but 3x3 will still get my focus.


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## MarcelP (Sep 24, 2012)

ok, you are improving also very quickly. It will not be long before you are faster.. I hate these G perms. I still messed up one in the competition. I was at 36 seconds and doing the PLL and messed up. It was so messed up that even my cross had to be redone.. LOL.


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## MWilson (Sep 24, 2012)

If that's happening you should try learning them by tracking something about them visually. I can do all my algs one move at a time throwing the cube up in the air and catching it between moves, because I learned them by seeing how f2l pairs or something else is moved around. I can do them backwards like that too. Muscle memory is of course important for speed and having a clear mind to think about what's coming next, but you should be associating that muscle memory with something more knowledge/visual based. You then not only remember it longer, but you don't make mistakes as often either. Also, when you do make the inevitable mistake, you notice immediately and can correct it easily. See my previous post at the bottom of page 18. If you learn what I explained there, you can use it forward (Gb), backward (Ga), mirrored forward (Gd), and mirrored backward (Gc) for all of the G perms.


----------



## PeelingStickers (Sep 24, 2012)

This is making me wanna go to a comp now (as it happens I'm in the UK open xD)

Nice one Marcel


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## MarcelP (Sep 25, 2012)

Dominate said:


> If that's happening you should try learning them by tracking something about them visually.



Yes, I have been trying to practice more visually. And in most cases I can fix a problem right away. Just in the competition I was completely lost after a small mistake. 



PeelingStickers said:


> This is making me wanna go to a comp now (as it happens I'm in the UK open xD)
> 
> Nice one Marcel



Thanks! Looking at your averages you should be fine in any competition.


----------



## MarcelP (Sep 26, 2012)

Ok, here is my first timed 2 X 2 av of 3. I just read an Ortega tutorial yesterday and have practiced only one hour or so. So I have no skills in 2 X 2 or what so ever. So this is my null measurement for future reference LOL

[video=youtube_share;ZhLytewtjTI]http://youtu.be/ZhLytewtjTI[/video]

Average 19.97

1. 18.04 R2 F2 U2 R U' F R2 U2 F'
2. 23.69 R2 F' R2 F' U R U' R F' R2
3. 19.97 U' F U' R F' R F R2 F'

2 X 2 is FUN!!


----------



## ThomasJE (Sep 26, 2012)

A few tips:
- Lube your 2x2. I can't put it any other way. Your cube looks so slow.
- Learn some fingertricks. You do a turn, then another turn, then another turn... Try being more fluent with your turns.
- Look at this tutorial. The blue lines are recognition points, so that should help.

Also, V2's aren't considered to be the best 2x2 cube. WitTwo's are much better cubes. Stick with the V2 for now, and when you get to around 6-7 seconds, then I suggest you get a WitTwo.


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## MarcelP (Sep 26, 2012)

Thanks Thomas! I will study the link first. And yesterday Kattenvriendin told me about the WitTwo so I order one right away..  Fingertricks for 2 X 2 is really hard for me. The cube just too damn small.. LOL


----------



## Endgame (Sep 26, 2012)

ThomasJE said:


> then I suggest you get a WitTwo.



or you could just get one now


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## Crazycubemom (Sep 26, 2012)

Wooowww Marcel, AMAZING results for your first competition. CONGRATS! You are faster than me @ My The First Competition 

Keep it hot! I don't know about top 10 40+ ers , I bet you are 1 of them ( sorry if I'm wrong) Kattenvriendin, thank you for supporting Marcel .


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## MarcelP (Sep 27, 2012)

Crazycubemom said:


> Wooowww Marcel, AMAZING results for your first competition. CONGRATS! You are faster than me @ My The First Competition
> 
> Keep it hot! I don't know about top 10 40+ ers , I bet you are 1 of them ( sorry if I'm wrong) Kattenvriendin, thank you for supporting Marcel .



Thanks Maria. I am happy with these results too!


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## Kattenvriendin (Sep 27, 2012)

Crazycubemom said:


> Kattenvriendin, thank you for supporting Marcel .


You're welcome! He's the first Dutchie to contact me here, so he IS kinda special hehe 

We'll meet at the Dutch Open for the first time, I hope? You can't miss me, I am the girl with the crazy long hair lol


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## MarcelP (Sep 28, 2012)

Kattenvriendin said:


> You can't miss me, I am the girl with the crazy long hair lol



I hope to be there. I am easily spotted too. I am 230Lbs and tattooed..


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## MarcelP (Sep 28, 2012)

I don't get that many sub 30's but every now and then the scramble gods throw me a nice cross:

U' R2 B2 U2 R2 B2 D' F2 D2 L2 U R D' U2 R2 B' L D R2 L2 U

26 seconds on a brand new ShengEn FII:

[video=youtube_share;t85K2lPvR2w]http://youtu.be/t85K2lPvR2w[/video]

(23 seconds on second try with black ZhanChi  )


----------



## lcsbiffi (Sep 28, 2012)

Oh that was a nice solve  btw did you like the fII ? I use one as my main while i wait for my lubix zhanchi.


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## MarcelP (Sep 28, 2012)

I just love it. I just have to buy some glew (spelling?) to fix the caps that come off on fast solves.


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## BenVdd (Sep 28, 2012)

Glue  and nice solve!


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## cowabunga (Sep 28, 2012)

MarcelP said:


> I just love it. I just have to buy some glew (spelling?) to fix the caps that come off on fast solves.



bicycle glue works fine for me


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## MarcelP (Sep 28, 2012)

cowabunga said:


> bicycle glue works fine for me


Awesome tip. Now I do'nt have to go to the store 



BenVdd said:


> Glue  and nice solve!




Thanks Ben!


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## lcsbiffi (Sep 28, 2012)

Yeah, I glued most of the caps on, except the center caps so I can adjust the tension. Does your fII cut corners well ?


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## ThomasJE (Sep 28, 2012)

MarcelP said:


> I don't get that many sub 30's but every now and then the scramble gods throw me a nice cross:
> 
> U' R2 B2 U2 R2 B2 D' F2 D2 L2 U R D' U2 R2 B' L D R2 L2 U
> 
> 26 seconds on a brand new ShengEn FII:



Nice! You have definitely improved your TPS. I'll try to reconstruct it later.


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## MarcelP (Sep 28, 2012)

lcsbiffi said:


> Does your fII cut corners well ?



It's allright. About 40 degrees.



ThomasJE said:


> Nice! You have definitely improved your TPS. I'll try to reconstruct it later.


Thanks!


----------



## ThomasJE (Sep 29, 2012)

*MarcelP - 26.22 Single*



Spoiler: Video



[video=youtube_share;t85K2lPvR2w]http://youtu.be/t85K2lPvR2w[/video]



U' R2 B2 U2 R2 B2 D' F2 D2 L2 U R D' U2 R2 B' L D R2 L2 U

x z' // Inspection
L' U' (x R2') // Cross
U L' U' L U' U' y R' U' U' R U' R' U R // F2L 1
U y' R' U R U' R' U' R // F2L 2
U' U2 y' R' U2 R U' y R U R' // F2L 3
y' U' R U' R' U y L' U' L // F2L 4
r y R U l' B' z' R' // OELL
F' x L U R' U' L' U l // OCLL
L U' R' U L' U2 R U' R' U2 R U' // PLL
View at alg.garron.us

*Stats:*

```
[B]Step	Time	HTM	HTPS	ETM	ETPS[/B]
[COLOR="#FF0000"]Total	26.22	65	2.48	78	2.97[/COLOR]
Cross+1	5.24	15	2.86	19	3.63
F2L	16.21	39	2.41	49	3.02
LL	10.01	26	2.60	29	2.90

[B]%	Time	HTM	ETM[/B]		
F2L	61.8%	60.0%	62.8%		
LL	38.2%	40.0%	37.2%
```

2.48 TPS - that's much better than before. Your move count is also much lower - You still have some weird fingertricks though - but they may disappear over time. Nicely done!


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## Kattenvriendin (Sep 29, 2012)

Oh wow.. so cool!


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## MarcelP (Sep 29, 2012)

ThomasJE said:


> 2.48 TPS - that's much better than before. Your move count is also much lower - You still have some weird fingertricks though - but they may disappear over time. Nicely done!



Thomas, you are awsome. Thanks so much. I love seeing these break downs. 2.48 TPS. Wow.. practice is paying off..


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## MarcelP (Sep 30, 2012)

ThomasJE said:


> A few tips:
> - Lube your 2x2. I can't put it any other way. Your cube looks so slow.
> - Learn some fingertricks. You do a turn, then another turn, then another turn... Try being more fluent with your turns.
> - Look at this tutorial. The blue lines are recognition points, so that should help.



So I did all these things, I have practiced this week for about 1,5 hour in total. Allready I see great improvement. I guess with a new WitTwo that is comming my way I will be sub 10 in no time 

Mean: 12.14

1. 14.92 U2 R U' R F2 R' U' R U2
2. 8.27 F2 R' F2 R F2 R U F2 U'
3. 13.22 R2 U2 F' U2 F U2 F R'


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## ThomasJE (Sep 30, 2012)

You've improved! Look at this video - there are some useful PBL fingertricks.


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## MarcelP (Sep 30, 2012)

Thanks Thomas. That's helpfull. Do you use Ortega? And congrats with your 1000th post on Speedsolving.com


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## ThomasJE (Sep 30, 2012)

MarcelP said:


> Thanks Thomas. That's helpfull. Do you use Ortega? And congrats with your 1000th post on Speedsolving.com



Thanks.  Yes, I use Ortega, and I average around 5.5 secs. I am considering switching to Guimond though, but sometimes, you skip a face, so it's easier to do an Ortega solve rather than a Guimond solve.

EDIT: Fun fact - I am one of 130 people that have 1,000 posts or more.


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## MarcelP (Sep 30, 2012)

Since I learned so much from you I would really see some solves from you. Please set up an account on Youtube!!


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## lcsbiffi (Sep 30, 2012)

I have a 2x2 LanLan and I stiil have to learn the last algs from Ortega but I'm just too lazy.


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## MarcelP (Sep 30, 2012)

I use 3 x 3 algs. For exampl on the Ortega sheet stands R U2 R' U' R U2 L' U' R' U' L. I don 't like that one. In stead I use R U2 R' U' R U2 L' U R' U which is one of my plls.


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## lcsbiffi (Sep 30, 2012)

MarcelP said:


> I use 3 x 3 algs. For exampl on the Ortega sheet stands R U2 R' U' R U2 L' U' R' U' L. I don 't like that one. In stead I use R U2 R' U' R U2 L' U R' U which is one of my plls.



Yeah, I do that too  I just have to memorize the OLL algs from the 2x2 :S


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## MarcelP (Sep 30, 2012)

All olls are from 3 x 3. In my case


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## Schmidt (Sep 30, 2012)

I think the case you are talking about can be solved with T, J & A perms, depending where the block is.


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## MarcelP (Sep 30, 2012)

Yes, I use a J perm which is one the first PLL's that I learned and is quite fast (even on 2 X 2).


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## MarcelP (Oct 3, 2012)

I just received my WitTwo Type C 2 X 2 and it is awesome. China must have come closer to The Netherlands since I ordered it only last week. LOL.

anyway, I did not lube or tention it because I want to brake it in first for a few hundred solves. Allready I love the way it turns. 
Here an average of 5 of 11.84 seconds:

[video=youtube_share;5Q8cKH0_Lqw]http://youtu.be/5Q8cKH0_Lqw[/video]


----------



## PeelingStickers (Oct 3, 2012)

Nice, I ordered my wittwo last week, although it got shipped monday, from America yet I think it will take longer than a week for it to arrive xD

Practice the algs to speed them up a notch and I'm sure you'll be rapid


----------



## MarcelP (Oct 6, 2012)

This morning I did an average of 12 on my 3 X 3 and had all sub 40!

Best average of 12: 35.93
35.54 (32.51) 39.39 36.81 33.14 39.18 (39.65) 33.89 35.50 34.84 38.39 32.59

I was like, Wow.. Let's do that again!

And then my first sub 35 happened!

Best average of 12: 34.40
33.73 35.17 36.20 28.81 (28.54) 32.87 32.48 37.14 (42.57) 38.36 36.32 32.96

In these I also crushed my ao5 PB from 34.something to 31.39

Funny thing is that I hardly touched the 3 X 3 this week since I have been messing with my 2 X 2 and 4 X 4 mostly 

Oh btw, I solved my first 4 x 4 yesterday. It took me about two hours.. LOL


----------



## cubecraze1 (Oct 6, 2012)

MarcelP said:


> Oh btw, I solved my first 4 x 4 yesterday. It took me about two hours.. LOL



lol it took me three days  nice job


----------



## ThomasJE (Oct 6, 2012)

Nice! You're definitely improving fast. What brand is your 4x4? Also, I may reconstruct your 2x2 average. You won't get much information out of it though - only TPS and your algs.

EDIT: You did the first scramble wrong; try to check your scramble in the bottom right corner. If you get it wrong, either scratch the solve or solve and rescramble.


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## MarcelP (Oct 6, 2012)

Thanks Thomas,

I will upload 2 X 2 again once I have hit sub 10. Then I would be very interested in reconstructions. But I am not at that stage yet. My 4 X 4 is ShengShou, I love it. I don't know how they can make something that cool for less then 10 dollars..


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## Endgame (Oct 6, 2012)

MarcelP said:


> I don't know how they can make something that cool for less then 10 dollars..



then you obviously don't know there is a ShengShou 5x5 for $9USD


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## MarcelP (Oct 6, 2012)

Endgame said:


> then you obviously don't know there is a ShengShou 5x5 for $9USD



Ordered yesterday


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## Endgame (Oct 6, 2012)

MarcelP said:


> Ordered yesterday



I need to order it too, but I don't feel like right now haha


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## PeelingStickers (Oct 6, 2012)

Mine should be here soon  

It's so much easier to do the 3x3 straight after big cubes, as I'm sure you've found out


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## MarcelP (Oct 6, 2012)

Ok, I need some help. I can build the first three layers. I know how to make the yellow cross on top. But then everytime I have two edges that heve two colors instead of one. Is there an easy way to switch the left face yellow/green with the right face yellow/red?


----------



## MarcelP (Oct 6, 2012)

PeelingStickers said:


> Mine should be here soon
> 
> It's so much easier to do the 3x3 straight after big cubes, as I'm sure you've found out



Yeah, I had a ao12 PB. My first sub 35!


----------



## ThomasJE (Oct 6, 2012)

MarcelP said:


> Ok, I need some help. I can build the first three layers. I know how to make the yellow cross on top. But then everytime I have two edges that heve two colors instead of one. Is there an easy way to switch the left face yellow/green with the right face yellow/red?
> View attachment 2389



You've messed up during edge pairing. To fix the edges, do this (yellow on F and orange on U)
R' F R (Dw R F' U R' F Dw')
And then do 3x3. Hope this helps.


----------



## MarcelP (Oct 6, 2012)

Nope, I messed it up.. LOL Do you know a website with a tutorial? Because the vids on Youtube are not helping a lot.

You say ' messed up during edge pairing'. I have a method that makes that I always have two pairs that are not good. I need to have a new method apparently


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## ThomasJE (Oct 6, 2012)

MarcelP said:


> Nope, I messed it up.. LOL Do you know a website with a tutorial? Because the vids on Youtube are not helping a lot.



http://kungfoomanchu.com/guides/andy-klise-4x4x4-guide-v2.pdf
You're looking for the middle case in the Pair Edges section.


----------



## sneaklyfox (Oct 6, 2012)

Great job on that first sub-35 and new PBs! Reaching sub-30 is an exciting time. Looking forward to watching your first sub-30 ao12 video. I know you'll get there...


----------



## ben1996123 (Oct 6, 2012)

MarcelP said:


> [video=youtube_share;5Q8cKH0_Lqw]http://youtu.be/5Q8cKH0_Lqw[/video]



7.94 F2 R U' R' U' R F R F
x L' D2 z2 R U R'
U' y R U2 R' U' R U2 L' U R' U' L


13.28 F' R F2 R U2 R2 U' F2
z x' R R' D' R D R' D' R
x2 L' U' L U' L' U2 L
z' x5' z D2 y R2 F2 R2


11.65 U F R F' R2 U' R' F2
y' x R' z R' D' R
x2 R U R' U R U2 R'
U' R2 U R2 y' U2 R2 U R2 U'


11.15 U2 F U R' U F' R' F2
x R U R'
F' R U R' U' R' F R
U3 x' L D' R U2 x' L' D L' U2


15.17 R' U2 F R2 F U' R U'
z' R D2 R' D' R
x2 U U3' F R U R' U' R U R' U' F'
U' D2 R2 U R2 y' U2 R2 U R2 U'


----------



## Kattenvriendin (Oct 6, 2012)

Yup, you have to have ALL the edges right before you start solving it like a 3x3. 

After that you can still run into parity but that is easily fixed. 

It is not like with a 3x3 that you solve layer by layer. You reduce TO a 3x3 and after that solve it LIKE a 3x3 

Which is where the fun comes in when you are doing 7x7. The centers.. ohhhh the centers. Basically it is the same idea as the 4x4 but seeing where they are exactly just is more difficult.

Oh and don't expect a no-parity-possible when you get a 5x5. Just because it is an uneven cube does not mean you cannot get parity on it. I was plain old lucky on my first 5x5 solve to not run into it. I scrambled it a second time.. annnndd.. PARITY. Thank god we have internet now


----------



## ThomasJE (Oct 6, 2012)

Nice! I'll do TPS stats now.


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## ThomasJE (Oct 6, 2012)

```
[B]Solve	Time	HTM	HTPS	ETM	ETPS[/B]
1	7.94	17	2.14	19	2.39
2	13.28	17	1.28	24	1.81
3	11.65	20	1.72	23	1.97
4	11.15	20	1.79	23	2.06
5	15.17	26	1.71	30	1.98
[COLOR="#FF0000"]Total	59.19	100	1.69	119	2.01[/COLOR]
```

Could a mod put this in my above post; it keeps saying I haven't got permission to edit my post (even when I log-in seconds earlier). I'm also having other problems with the forum.


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## MarcelP (Oct 6, 2012)

WHHHHOOOOOOHHHOOOOO, new PB.. 

With a PLL skip though  Still very very happy with my first sub 20.

Scramble: D' L2 D' B2 F2 D' L2 U2 R2 L2 U B' L B F U2 L' F' D' B L 

[video=youtube_share;bcuoKpjwmLU]http://youtu.be/bcuoKpjwmLU[/video]


----------



## MarcelP (Oct 6, 2012)

ThomasJE said:


> http://kungfoomanchu.com/guides/andy-klise-4x4x4-guide-v2.pdf
> You're looking for the middle case in the Pair Edges section.



Awesome! Thanks




sneaklyfox said:


> Great job on that first sub-35 and new PBs! Reaching sub-30 is an exciting time. Looking forward to watching your first sub-30 ao12 video. I know you'll get there...



Not this year I think.  It is my ultimate goal to get consistent sub 30's.


----------



## ben1996123 (Oct 6, 2012)

MarcelP said:


> WHHHHOOOOOOHHHOOOOO, new PB..
> 
> With a PLL skip though  Still very very happy with my first sub 20.
> 
> Scramble: D' L2 D' B2 F2 D' L2 U2 R2 L2 U B' L B F U2 L' F' D' B L



Nice solve, very fast recognition for OLL too.



Spoiler: Video



[youtubehd]bcuoKpjwmLU[/youtubehd]





Spoiler: Solve 1 (19.24)



Scramble: D' L2 D' B2 F2 D' L2 U2 R2 L2 U B' L B F U2 L' F' D' B L 

z2 // Inspection
R D2 R' x U2 x' y' U' l' U l // Cross (8/8)
R' U R L' U2 L U' L' U L // 1st Pair (10/18)
R U' R2 U' R // 2nd Pair (5/23)
U2 y' R' U R U' R' U' R // 3rd Pair (8/31)
y' U2 R U' R' U2 R U R' U R U' R' // 4th Pair (12/43)
U' R2 D' R U2 R' D R U2 R U2 // OLL (11/54)
View at alg.garron

```
[b]Step	Time	HTM	HTPS	ETM	ETPS[/b]
[color="red"]Total	19.24	54	2.81	59	3.07[/color]

Cross+1	6.90	18	2.61	21	3.04
F2L	15.00	43	2.87	48	3.20
LL	4.24	11	2.59	11	2.59

[b]Step		Time	HTM	ETM[/b]
Cross+1/F2L	46%	42%	44%
F2L/Total	78%	80%	81%
LL/Total	22%	20%	19%
```


----------



## MarcelP (Oct 6, 2012)

ben1996123 said:


> Nice solve, very fast recognition for OLL too.



Thanks Ben. I made a guess for the OLL. It could only be one out of two cases.. LOL..I thought I saw headlights and I was right.  But instead of make an inspection I went to immediate execution..


----------



## Kattenvriendin (Oct 6, 2012)

Life is about challenges sometimes!  :tu


----------



## sneaklyfox (Oct 6, 2012)

Yay! First sub-20 solve. Love your reaction too.


----------



## JianhanC (Oct 6, 2012)

I like how this introduction thread has become a journal  Great progress though Marcel :tu


----------



## Kattenvriendin (Oct 6, 2012)

sneaklyfox said:


> Yay! First sub-20 solve. Love your reaction too.



LOL yeah.. sounded like he couldn't go YAYYYY out loud.. sleeping kid around? *giggle*


----------



## Endgame (Oct 6, 2012)

ugh.. I need to step my game up. you broke my PB single and I've been cubing longer haha


----------



## MarcelP (Oct 6, 2012)

Kattenvriendin said:


> LOL yeah.. sounded like he couldn't go YAYYYY out loud.. sleeping kid around? *giggle*



You guessed correctly! My 3 year old boy was having his nap. 




Endgame said:


> ugh.. I need to step my game up. you broke my PB single and I've been cubing longer haha


No? Really? Good stuff


----------



## Kattenvriendin (Oct 6, 2012)

Hehe poor Endgame.. now he actually has to WORK.. someone newer beat his reeecord.. neener *laughs*


----------



## Endgame (Oct 6, 2012)

Kattenvriendin said:


> Hehe poor Endgame.. now he actually has to WORK.. someone newer beat his reeecord.. neener *laughs*



I actually wasted a few months using CFOP before switching to Roux this August. >_>


----------



## Kattenvriendin (Oct 6, 2012)

We Dutch have a saying for that.. "spijt komt na de zonde".

In English, roughly translated "regret comes after the sin".


----------



## Endgame (Oct 6, 2012)

Kattenvriendin said:


> We Dutch have a saying for that.. "spijt komt na de zonde".
> 
> In English, roughly translated "regret comes after the sin".



I don't really regret it though: it always comes in handy when I want to teach people how to solve, because I'm too lazy to explain blockbuilding and stuff


----------



## brunovervoort (Oct 6, 2012)

MarcelP said:


> Ok, I need some help. I can build the first three layers. I know how to make the yellow cross on top. But then everytime I have two edges that heve two colors instead of one. Is there an easy way to switch the left face yellow/green with the right face yellow/red?
> View attachment 2389



Try to pair all edges after having solved the centers, and then start doing 3x3 reduction. The only annoying things that could happen then are OLL and PLL parity.


----------



## MarcelP (Oct 8, 2012)

ThomasJE said:


> http://kungfoomanchu.com/guides/andy-klise-4x4x4-guide-v2.pdf
> You're looking for the middle case in the Pair Edges section.





About the parity cases in this file, I see 4 PLL parity images but only 2 algoritms. I don't get that. Right now I have only two corner pairity. How do I howld my cube and which algoritm?


----------



## Kattenvriendin (Oct 8, 2012)

Can you show us a picture? 

I assume by the way that the underside of the image is the front of the cube. What happens if you do the algorithm that way?


----------



## ThomasJE (Oct 8, 2012)

MarcelP said:


> About the parity cases in this file, I see 4 PLL parity images but only 2 algoritms. I don't get that. Right now I have only two corner pairity. How do I howld my cube and which algoritm?



The four images are the main parity cases. Doing one of the algorithms brings the cube into a position that is solveable like a 3x3. Long story short, when you get to PLL, if you don't see a usual PLL case, do one of the parity algs and then solve the PLL.


----------



## MarcelP (Oct 8, 2012)

Kattenvriendin said:


> Can you show us a picture?
> 
> I assume by the way that the underside of the image is the front of the cube. What happens if you do the algorithm that way?


----------



## Endgame (Oct 8, 2012)

hold the bad corners on ULF and UFR

then
r2 U2 r2 Uw2 r2 U2 Uw2

now recognize the PLL case, it'll most likely be a T-perm


----------



## MarcelP (Oct 8, 2012)

r2 U2 r2 Uw2 r2 U2 Uw2 ... Nope, sorry, that messes up the cube..


----------



## Endgame (Oct 8, 2012)

MarcelP said:


> r2 U2 r2 Uw2 r2 U2 Uw2 ... Nope, sorry, that messes up the cube..



then do it right and it won't


----------



## ThomasJE (Oct 8, 2012)

MarcelP said:


> r2 U2 r2 Uw2 r2 U2 Uw2 ... Nope, sorry, that messes up the cube..



Remember that r2 is the inner slice, not outer and inner layers; that's Rw2.


----------



## Endgame (Oct 8, 2012)




----------



## MarcelP (Oct 8, 2012)

I have tried multiple times.. Now I just did:

(Rw2 R2') U2 (Rw2 R2') Uw2 (Rw2 R2') Uw2 and I think I have a 3 X 3 PLL case now..


----------



## MarcelP (Oct 8, 2012)

Endgame said:


>



Thanks man! I did not know about the r2 notation. I figured that was R2.. LOL


----------



## Endgame (Oct 8, 2012)

MarcelP said:


> I have tried multiple times.. Now I just did:
> 
> (Rw2 R2') U2 (Rw2 R2') Uw2 (Rw2 R2') Uw2 and I think I have a 3 X 3 PLL case now..



that's the algorithm i gave you but without cancellations


----------



## MarcelP (Oct 8, 2012)

Thanks Nick.

Btw, I just did a real nice one on a brand new cube.

U F2 D F2 R2 B2 F2 L2 U' F2 D' L' B U' R' B2 U2 F' R' B L D'

[video=youtube_share;p85O53sB4U4]http://youtu.be/p85O53sB4U4[/video]

It's my new Type C V. Very nice cube. Not really fast yet but it feels like you have a lot of controle.


----------



## ThomasJE (Oct 8, 2012)

Nice! One thing - your OCLL alg was R U2 R2 U' R2 U' R2 U2 R. Try executing it as R U2' R2' U' R2 U' R2' U2' R with all the R's as one fluent 'back and forth' movement. Also, why don't you try reconstructing your own solves? It can be quite fun to watch your own moves on camera frame by frame. If you want any tips, Brest and chrissyD are two other well known reconstructors. A good place to start is by looking here. The only change is that instead of using Media Player Classic, Brest uses Avidemux now. Good luck!


----------



## Kattenvriendin (Oct 8, 2012)

And fun.. Avidemux is free!

I use it too.. easy proggie 

I am fiddling with the 4x4 now too.. forgot about the r2 and Rw2.

r2 = two quarter turns inner right layer
Rw2 = two quarter turns both right layers

^ Correct?

>.< 

Now Marcel.. get a 7x7.. imagine the notation of that one..  LOL


----------



## MarcelP (Oct 9, 2012)

ThomasJE said:


> Try executing it as R U2' R2' U' R2 U' R2' U2' R with all the R's as one fluent 'back and forth' movement.



I just can't do a double flick with my left hand. I know it sounds stupid bu I just can't 



ThomasJE said:


> Also, why don't you try reconstructing your own solves?



I wish I could. But betwee 3 hours travelling to work, fulltime job, family with small children, night school there is only so much time that I can spend on cubing. It that time I rather cube than reconstruct.


----------



## Cubenovice (Oct 9, 2012)

MarcelP said:


> I just can't do a double flick with my left hand. I know it sounds stupid bu I just can't


Just a matter of practice 
Your rapid improvement is a testament to "practice makes perfect"



ThomasJE said:


> Nice! One thing - your OCLL alg was R U2 R2 U' R2 U' R2 U2 R. Try executing it as R U2' R2' U' R2 U' R2' U2' R with all the R's as one fluent 'back and forth' movement.



What I do: R U2 R2 U' R2’ U' R2 U2 R

Executed as
R U2 – right hand
Now regrip with right hand: index/middle finger on UR edge, thumb on DR edge and keep them there for all three the R2’s “back and forth part”
R2 – don’t let go
U' – left index (
R2’ – don’t let go
U' - left index finger
R2 – now let go for the final part
U2 R - right hand

I suggest playing with the initial grip and direction of the R2’s and see what suits you best.


----------



## sneaklyfox (Oct 9, 2012)

Cubenovice said:


> Just a matter of practice
> Your rapid improvement is a testament to "practice makes perfect"
> 
> 
> ...



I can't do left double flick either. I do the same as Cubenovice except for the first R U2 I actually perform as
R U' (right hand... do U' with right thumb)
U' (left hand)


----------



## ThomasJE (Oct 9, 2012)

*MarcelP 25.13 Single*



Spoiler: Video



[video=youtube_share;p85O53sB4U4]http://youtu.be/p85O53sB4U4[/video]


U F2 D F2 R2 B2 F2 L2 U' F2 D' L' B U' R' B2 U2 F' R' B L D'

z2 // Inspection
U' D F L x' R U' (l' R') // Cross
y' R U' R' U' y' R U' U' R' U R U' R' // F2L 1
U' U' L' U L // F2L 2
R' U R L U L' U L U' L' // F2L 3
U' U' R' U2 R U' R' U R // F2L 4
r y R U l' B' z' R' // OELL
U R U2 R2 U' R2 U' R2 U' U' R // OCLL
L U' R' U L' U2 R U' R' U2 R U2 // PLL
View at alg.garron.us

Stats:

```
[B]Step	Time	HTM	HTPS	ETM	ETPS[/B]
[COLOR="#FF0000"]Total	25.13	69	2.75	78	3.10[/COLOR]
Cross+1	7.27	19	2.61	23	3.16
F2L	13.60	41	3.01	47	3.46
LL	11.53	28	2.43	31	2.69
					
[B]%	Time	HTM	ETM[/B]		
Cross+1/F2L	53.5%	46.3%	48.9%		
F2L/Total	54.1%	59.4%	60.3%		
LL/Total	45.9%	40.6%	39.7%
```
Nice! You're definitely getting faster, and your TPS and HTM are much better. Your first pair was quite slow; it should be around 30-40% of the whole F2L; it took 53.5%. So maybe try to improve on 1st pair lookahead.


----------



## ben1996123 (Oct 9, 2012)

MarcelP said:


> I just can't do a double flick with my left hand. I know it sounds stupid bu I just can't



I can't either. You could do a U2 before then do L' U2 L2 U L2' U L2 U2 L'


----------



## MarcelP (Oct 9, 2012)

ThomasJE said:


> Nice! You're definitely getting faster, and your TPS and HTM are much better. Your first pair was quite slow; it should be around 30-40% of the whole F2L; it took 53.5%. So maybe try to improve on 1st pair lookahead.



Thanks Thomas! I really appreciate it.



Cubenovice said:


> Just a matter of practice
> Your rapid improvement is a testament to "practice makes perfect"



Thanks! Wow..



sneaklyfox said:


> I can't do left double flick either.



Yeah, it's like writing with left. No matter how much you will practice you will never be as good as your dominant hand.


----------



## MarcelP (Oct 14, 2012)

Ok, I soved the 4 X 4 about 10 times now so I made video to see how it looks. Man... that looks awfull LOL

In short:
building centers 40 seconds
Building pairs 2 minutes
make cross, F2L 1 minute
Figuring out last layer one more minute..

Lost of room for improvement.. 

[video=youtube_share;WRXHJTN15U0]http://youtu.be/WRXHJTN15U0[/video]


----------



## ThomasJE (Oct 14, 2012)

Nice! I think you should start on build rings - there's a good video on it here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QxO54OfqcsE. And have you lubed it yet? Also, when you get to sub-2, I'll have to attempt to reconstruct (yes, a 4x4 reconstruction).


----------



## MarcelP (Oct 14, 2012)

Wow, I am on fire today! Broke my Ao 12, Ao5 (on video) and Ao3.. Woohooo!

Average of 5: 27.52
29.00 26.48 27.08 (25.55) (33.81)

[video=youtube_share;7zbhwLHuMe8]http://youtu.be/7zbhwLHuMe8[/video]

Edit: I have been practicing my @ss of this weekend  It paid out.. LOL


----------



## moralsh (Oct 14, 2012)

MarcelP said:


> No Raúl, I am being realistic. I am pretty sure that it will be very hard for me to make progress in this stage. I am confident that times will drop, how ever nothing more than one or two seconds per month. So averages of sub 30 is for me not realistic. I would be very nice if they happen around Christmas though





MarcelP said:


> Wow, I am on fire today! Broke my Ao 12, Ao5 (on video) and Ao3.. Woohooo!
> 
> Average of 5: 27.52
> 29.00 26.48 27.08 (25.55) (33.81)



Ahem...


----------



## Gordon (Oct 14, 2012)

Wooohoo, it's Christmas


----------



## MarcelP (Oct 15, 2012)

ThomasJE said:


> Nice! I think you should start on build rings - there's a good video on it here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QxO54OfqcsE. And have you lubed it yet? Also, when you get to sub-2, I'll have to attempt to reconstruct (yes, a 4x4 reconstruction).



Thanks Thomas. I will look into that today. 4 X 4 is fun. I not expecting to be fast at it as on my 3 X 3 though..



moralsh said:


> Ahem...



LOL! No it's not Christmas yet, and I am not sub 30 yet. My Average of 12 has a PB of 33 something.  And Christmas is on the doorstep.


----------



## sneaklyfox (Oct 15, 2012)

Ok, so you want a PB Ao12 of sub-30. (Not just Ao5.) But I think Christmas is going to come early.


----------



## MarcelP (Oct 15, 2012)

I think sub 30 Ao12 is not easy to get really soon. The Ao5 PB was a true lucky strike. Three easy scrambles. The chances of 12 easy scrambles are very low  We will see...


----------



## sneaklyfox (Oct 15, 2012)

I still don't think it will take you two months. Well, you can be pessimistic about it and be happy when it happens early.


----------



## MarcelP (Oct 15, 2012)

How long did it take you to go from 40 secs to consistent sub 30? I am just waiting for that 'blockage' where my times will not improve. LOL. I truely believe it will come soon.


----------



## ThomasJE (Oct 15, 2012)

MarcelP said:


> How long did it take you to go from 40 secs to consistent sub 30? I am just waiting for that 'blockage' where my times will not improve. LOL. I truely believe it will come soon.



My first sub-40 Ao12 was 27th December. First sub-30 Ao12 was 3rd March. So a little over 2 months. Also, when you get to that 'blockage', the best thing to do is just practice, or do slow solves to improve lookahead.


----------



## MarcelP (Oct 16, 2012)

I just had a nice scramble on my ShengEn FII:

R2 B2 U' R2 D B2 D' L2 U R2 D F' D2 F' L D' U F2 R' D2 B U 

Anyone care to reconstruct?

[video=youtube_share;ezgWg41Lwn4]http://youtu.be/ezgWg41Lwn4[/video]


----------



## ThomasJE (Oct 16, 2012)

Nice! That G-perm definitely slowed you down; that could have been sub-20 if you had a better PLL. I'll reconstruct tomorrow.


----------



## moralsh (Oct 16, 2012)

Marcel, I'm about 1 month behind you and I plan to make it to sub 30 by christmas, I'm confident you'll be there really soon, it's gonna take a lot of practice but everyday practicing becomes a little easier, at least for me

I think that you have an analytic mind and that this approach is very good for speedcubing, I also think that you don't need a special set of habilities to get around 20, just practice. After that I guess you also need to be fast . I might be wrong, though.

Keep it up!


----------



## ben1996123 (Oct 16, 2012)

Spoiler: Video



[youtubehd]ezgWg41Lwn4[/youtubehd]





Spoiler: Solve 1 (22.81)



Scramble: R2 B2 U' R2 D B2 D' L2 U R2 D F' D2 F' L D' U F2 R' D2 B U 

z2 y // Inspection
D L x U2 x2' U2 x // Cross (4/4)
L' U2 L U2' y U' L' U L // 1st Pair (8/12)
L U L' U L U' L' // 2nd Pair (7/19)
U2' U' R U2 R' y U R U' R' // 3rd Pair (9/28)
U' L' U' L // 4th Pair (4/32)
R U R' U R U2 R' // OLL (7/39)
U2' R2 u R2 U R2 D' R' U' R x U2 x' R' U R // PLL (14/53)
View at alg.garron

```
[b]Step	Time	HTM	HTPS	ETM	ETPS[/b]
[color="red"]Total	22.81	53	2.32	60	2.63[/color]

Cross+1	5.77	12	2.08	16	2.77
F2L	13.14	32	2.44	37	2.82
LL	9.67	21	2.17	23	2.38

[b]Step		Time	HTM	ETM[/b]
Cross+1/F2L	44%	38%	43%
F2L/Total	58%	60%	62%
LL/Total	42%	40%	38%
```


----------



## MarcelP (Oct 17, 2012)

ThomasJE said:


> Nice! That G-perm definitely slowed you down; that could have been sub-20 if you had a better PLL. I'll reconstruct tomorrow.


Thanks Thomas, but look again, that is no G-perm  That is one of my slowest PLL's. Still faster than a 2 step PLL (for me )



moralsh said:


> Marcel, I'm about 1 month behind you and I plan to make it to sub 30 by christmas, I'm confident you'll be there really soon, it's gonna take a lot of practice but everyday practicing becomes a little easier, at least for me
> 
> I think that you have an analytic mind and that this approach is very good for speedcubing, I also think that you don't need a special set of habilities to get around 20, just practice. After that I guess you also need to be fast . I might be wrong, though.
> 
> Keep it up!


Thanks Raoul. I was looking for your progress in the sub 30 contest. I hope it will be added.  I think you are right. Everyone should get to low 20 solves without having young agile hands.  Sub 30 is my main goal for now. I mean a graduation in the sub-30 contest.



ben1996123 said:


> Spoiler: Video
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Thanks Ben!


----------



## sneaklyfox (Oct 17, 2012)

Right... that is a Y perm. You don't like the standard F (R U' R' U') (R U R' F') (R U R' U') (R' F R F')?


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## MarcelP (Oct 17, 2012)

In the beginning when I was learning PLL's I could not perform a F or 'F without regrip. That might have changed. So I will look into this standard again


----------



## cowabunga (Oct 17, 2012)

MarcelP said:


> In the beginning when I was learning PLL's I could not perform a F or 'F without regrip. That might have changed. So I will look into this standard again



What about: R' U' R2 U' L U2 R' U R U2' L' R' U R' U R for the Y perm?

Im not a CFOP user myself but it seems like a better alg than the one you are using.


----------



## Endgame (Oct 17, 2012)

my old Y perm is quite fast and it also works on SQ1 lulz

R2 U' R2' U' R2 U R2 D' R2 U R2' U' R2 D R2


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## MarcelP (Oct 21, 2012)

Last friday I had a PB on Ao50. I had 35 something. Today I had a Ao 100 session and broke my PB again.  And the last 12 broke my Ao12!


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## ThomasJE (Oct 21, 2012)

Wow... How long did that take? Also, your consistancy is also improving (3.73 standard deviation - 10.79%).


----------



## MarcelP (Oct 21, 2012)

I don't know but I think around 1.5 hour - 2 hours. 

And I just did this:

My first sub 18:

U2 R F D' L' F D B L' U' R B U2 R B' D R2 U' B2 R F' D R2 F2 U

[video=youtube_share;gQrzrG7C39E]http://youtu.be/gQrzrG7C39E[/video]


----------



## ThomasJE (Oct 21, 2012)

Nice! I'll reconstruct that today. Also, how are you getting along on 4x4 and 2x2?


----------



## MarcelP (Oct 21, 2012)

As you can see, I tried inmediatly the same scramble on my 4 X 4. LOL that was 20 seconds slower:

I suck at 4 X 4. I have no speedcube intentions for the 4 X 4 so that is ok. I just did a few 2 X 2 averages of 5 and average around 12 seconds. So no improvement there. But I have not been practicing that.

[video=youtube_share;kiOj3RHvYbg]http://youtu.be/kiOj3RHvYbg[/video]


----------



## sneaklyfox (Oct 21, 2012)

17.63 PB... sweet! I still like your first sub-20 reaction better ("What??") Way to go Marcel!


----------



## ThomasJE (Oct 21, 2012)

*MarcelP 17.63 Single*



Spoiler: Video



[video=youtube_share;gQrzrG7C39E]http://youtu.be/gQrzrG7C39E[/video]


U2 R F D' L' F D B L' U' R B U2 R B' D R2 U' B2 R F' D R2 F2 U

x2 // Inspection
U l' U l R U' R' y R2 // Cross
y' R U' R' U2 L' U' L // F2L 1
U' U' y L' U L // F2L 2
R U' R' // F2L 3
U R' U R U' y R U' R' // F2L 4
y' r y R U R' (x B') z' R' // OELL
U' R U R' U R U' U' R' // OCLL
R2 U' R' U' R U R U R U' R U' U' U' // PLL
View at alg.garron.us

Stats:

```
[B]Step	Time	HTM	HTPS	ETM	ETPS[/B]
[COLOR="#FF0000"]Total	17.63	56	3.18	68	3.86[/COLOR]
Cross+1	5.53	15	2.71	17	3.07
F2L	10.26	30	2.92	35	3.41
LL	7.37	26	3.53	33	4.48
					
[B]%		Time	HTM	ETM[/B]		
Cross+1/F2L	53.9%	50.0%	48.6%		
F2L/Total	58.2%	53.6%	51.5%		
LL/Total	41.8%	46.4%	48.5%
```

Let's compare this to the first reconstruction I did:



ThomasJE said:


> ```
> [B]Step	Time	HTM	HTPS	ETM	ETPS[/B]
> [COLOR="#FF0000"]Total	43.76	88	2.01	109	2.49[/COLOR]
> Cross+1	13.03	19	1.46	27	2.07
> ...



Your TPS has been improvd by 50%, and that's quite a lot. Also, your movecount had decreased by around 30%. And the time... That's almost halved. And all that in two months. You'll be sub-30 by Christmas.


----------



## MarcelP (Oct 21, 2012)

sneaklyfox said:


> Way to go Marcel!



Wooohoo! Thanks!



ThomasJE said:


> Your TPS has been improvd by 50%, and that's quite a lot. Also, your movecount had decreased by around 30%. And the time... That's almost halved. And all that in two months. You'll be sub-30 by Christmas.



Thanks Thomas. 3.86 Tps Wow. I had my first pop on a Zhanchi. I guess that has to do with speed aswell.  I am finally starting to believe that sub 30 is an option with much practice before Christmass.. <<Knock on wood>>


----------



## ThomasJE (Oct 21, 2012)

MarcelP said:


> Thanks Thomas. 3.86 Tps Wow. I had my first pop on a Zhanchi. I guess that has to do with speed aswell.  I am finally starting to believe that sub 30 is an option with much practice before Christmass.. <<Knock on wood>>



You will get pops now you're knocking on sub-30's door. Now you're at this speed, your cube is becoming a larger factor, so it may be worth playing with the tensions and lubing it more often. When you get to around 20 seconds average, it may be worth getting a pre-modded cube. But don't worry about that now, and concentrate on getting through to sub-30.


----------



## Kattenvriendin (Oct 21, 2012)

VERY well done Marcel!

Impressive


----------



## Endgame (Oct 21, 2012)

FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU
broke my single PB by 0.12ish


----------



## lcsbiffi (Oct 21, 2012)

ThomasJE said:


> You will get pops now you're knocking on sub-30's door. Now you're at this speed, your cube is becoming a larger factor, so it may be worth playing with the tensions and lubing it more often. When you get to around 20 seconds average, it may be worth getting a pre-modded cube. But don't worry about that now, and concentrate on getting through to sub-30.



I bought a lubix zhanchi pre-modded and pre-tensioned. The only thing I changed are the tensions, but the cube is amazing. The best one I've ever used.


----------



## guusrs (Oct 21, 2012)

Wonderful! well done Marcel.
3.18 tps, that's above my average!


----------



## MarcelP (Oct 22, 2012)

guusrs said:


> Wonderful! well done Marcel.
> 3.18 tps, that's above my average!



I wish my averages where close to yours  Unfortunatly they are double the time.. LOL


----------



## Kattenvriendin (Oct 25, 2012)

Ok.. was looking through the list of names for Voorburg.

Where is yours? Do we have to drag you from the house kicking and screaming or are you coming voluntarily?


----------



## MarcelP (Oct 27, 2012)

Kattenvriendin said:


> Ok.. was looking through the list of names for Voorburg.
> 
> Where is yours? Do we have to drag you from the house kicking and screaming or are you coming voluntarily?



LOL.. I did not see this post.. You know by now that I am not able to attend this weekend..

I just did a new PB btw :

Average: 31.81
30.87 34.71 (39.25) 29.36 31.60 (24.68) 27.01 34.79 27.68 33.32 31.40 37.39


----------



## ThomasJE (Oct 27, 2012)

MarcelP said:


> LOL.. I did not see this post.. You know by now that I am not able to attend this weekend..
> 
> I just did a new PB btw :
> 
> ...



Nice! You're getting very close...


----------



## moralsh (Oct 27, 2012)

So close to sub 30! 

You better hurry up on getting sub 30 as I appear to be one month behind you on progress and if you don't make it in a month or so I won't be able to get there by Christmas!


----------



## MarcelP (Oct 27, 2012)

LOL.. I think you are progressing faster than I did. I just saw your the race to sub 30 post. Nicely done!

EDIT: Btw, these mid twenties are occuring so much more often. It feels magical when I do a 24 - 27 seconds solve..


----------



## BenVdd (Oct 27, 2012)

moralsh said:


> So close to sub 30!
> 
> You better hurry up on getting sub 30 as I appear to be *Three* months behind you on progress and if you don't make it in a month or so I won't be able to get there by Christmas!



Seconded!


----------



## MarcelP (Oct 27, 2012)

Yes Ben, you started 3 months after me and you are allready in the same averages. That is truely awesome. Must be the age thing  Raoul and I progress at a slower rate... Lol


----------



## moralsh (Oct 27, 2012)

What I find funny is that both of us started with the 1 minute barrier in mind and now we just can't stop 

I guess the progression is usually linear but my self perception is that you can stay half the week averaging 40s and a day later you are a couple of seconds better and you stay ther, I guess as I said it's just self perception.

I'm planning to do a web timer focused on recording progression and showing stats, whenever I find some time to do so, will definitely try to do it by Christmas (once I'm sub 30  )


----------



## MarcelP (Oct 27, 2012)

moralsh said:


> What I find funny is that both of us started with the 1 minute barrier in mind and now we just can't stop



Yes, but when I hit the 30 barrier I will start learning new things. Roux and one-handed are on my wish list. So I will not work hard on getting faster after that.


----------



## BenVdd (Oct 27, 2012)

If I get a sub 30 average i'll learn Full PLL and maybe OLL  I am not looking forward to it and keep postponing learning those damned algs :/

and I am nowhere near getting these averages of mine consistantly. One day i get solves between 27-35 , the other day I struggle getting sub 40 :/


----------



## ThomasJE (Oct 27, 2012)

BenVdd said:


> If I get a sub 30 average i'll learn Full PLL and maybe OLL  I am not looking forward to it and keep postponing learning those damned algs :/
> 
> and I am nowhere near getting these averages of mine consistantly. One day i get solves between 27-35 , the other day I struggle getting sub 40 :/



Don't put off learning PLL. The sooner you learn it, the better. Just learn one alg a day.


----------



## BenVdd (Oct 27, 2012)

I'm just so lazy :/ I know E , H , Z , Ua,Ub, Aa,Ab,T,Ja, Jb (think those are all i know)


(and i should stop hijacking this thread)


----------



## MarcelP (Nov 1, 2012)

So close....

Average 30.87
33.96 (23.70) (37.29) 28.21 26.25 28.06 34.61 30.90 33.71 26.75 35.89 30.37

Will try again tomorrow..


----------



## BenVdd (Nov 1, 2012)

You will get there within the week


----------



## Kattenvriendin (Nov 1, 2012)

Woohooo, you go go go!!


----------



## MarcelP (Nov 2, 2012)

I did a Ao 100 session today. And I was expecting a sub 30 Ao12 in there.. Not even close. Not even a Ao5 sub 30. LOL..  Luckily there was a Ao3 sub 30 there. And I did improve my Ao100 almost by a second 
so I am still very happy  Whhooohoo!


----------



## BenVdd (Nov 2, 2012)

I should do a Ao100.. how long did it take you?


----------



## MarcelP (Nov 2, 2012)

Hmm.. I am guessing one and a half hour or so.


----------



## BenVdd (Nov 2, 2012)

Ok , Challange Accepted  i'll start in 20minutes ^^


----------



## moralsh (Nov 2, 2012)

Heh, Marcel -> Mr regularity 

your times are always so close to each other... I'm getting better at that, but I've never been close to you on that, I think it´s impressive to have 1.5 seconds between your Ao12 and your Ao100.


----------



## Schmidt (Nov 2, 2012)

MarcelP said:


> Hmm.. I am guessing one and a half hour or so.



Most of my times are sub 30(Ao1000~25) and I use 1 min per solve(scramble inspect solve) so 90 minutes for 100 solves seems a bit fast.


----------



## moralsh (Nov 2, 2012)

On long runs I do little inspection, most of the times 3-5 seconds, maybe that's also the case with Marcel


----------



## MarcelP (Nov 2, 2012)

It might have been two hours also..  I did not look at the clock.


----------



## MarcelP (Nov 2, 2012)

moralsh said:


> Heh, Marcel -> Mr regularity
> 
> your times are always so close to each other... I'm getting better at that, but I've never been close to you on that, I think it´s impressive to have 1.5 seconds between your Ao12 and your Ao100.




I think that is just my base core speed right now... I have a PB on a single or Ao5 is just luck in my case.. in Ao100 you miss the luck factor and it shows just how fast you are...


----------



## MarcelP (Nov 2, 2012)

moralsh said:


> On long runs I do little inspection, most of the times 3-5 seconds, maybe that's also the case with Marcel



I tried to do a ao 12 video so you could see, but I make video's with a compact photo camera and it just shuts down after filming a few minutes. So only 8 of them are in de video:

I messed one up but still managed to solve in 53 seconds.


Average 32.67
(27.23) 31.62 31.24 27.97 31.38 39.65 30.28 (53.97) 29.34 28.66 34.44 42.09


----------



## MarcelP (Nov 3, 2012)

I tell you, the cube gods are angry with me. Best Ao12 30,02.. Are you kidding me? So frustrating... )
I think I need to stop timing for a while..


----------



## ThomasJE (Nov 3, 2012)

MarcelP said:


> I tell you, the cube gods are angry with me. Best Ao12 30,02.. Are you kidding me? So frustrating... )
> I think I need to stop timing for a while..



Yeah... My PB Ao12 (with CFOP) is 20.05. It's really annoying when that happens.


----------



## MarcelP (Nov 4, 2012)

Thomas, I 'd be very happy with your 20.05 Ao12 lol. I think you will have a new Pb with zz soon


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## BenVdd (Nov 4, 2012)

I bet you will get sub 30 before i can redo my sub30 ^^ I got lucky ^^


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## MarcelP (Nov 6, 2012)

Today I did my entry for the sub 30 race. I had a 30.someting score. I did a few more solves and finally had a sub 30:

Best average of 12: 29.52
5-16 - 31.09 29.95 27.09 31.04 28.50 30.46 27.54 (26.62) (32.18) 29.90 28.46 31.20

LOL, I can die in peace now..


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## moralsh (Nov 6, 2012)

Heh, I win!


----------



## MarcelP (Nov 6, 2012)

moralsh said:


> Heh, I win!



LOL.. I want to graduate in the race to sub 30 first  But overall I am out of my mind with happiness with my times  Whooohoooo


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## BenVdd (Nov 6, 2012)

Nice job marcel!


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## ThomasJE (Nov 6, 2012)

Congrats! Now for sub-20...


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## sneaklyfox (Nov 6, 2012)

Yay, Marcel!

Did you know... yours and mine are the only two times I care about.


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## MarcelP (Nov 6, 2012)

sneaklyfox said:


> Yay, Marcel!
> 
> Did you know... yours and mine are the only two times I care about.



Wow, I feel so honoured. Thanks!


----------



## MarcelP (Nov 7, 2012)

I already had a few more sub 30'sAo12. It's just a mental barrier.. LOL I did an early bird train session this morning. With dim lights I had a great Ao50 with several Sub 30 Ao12's in there:


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## pixl8 (Nov 7, 2012)

Congrats Marcel!

I've been following this thread (and read everything) since I join this forum and it is really inspiring following you. I myself are roughly at the times you have in your very first videos. And I look basically the same with all the cube-rotations and shaky hands  And look at you now! I love looking at your progress and seeing that it is possible and that I someday will hit my goal of 30s too. It's more relateable then seeing sub10s on youtube when you cant even solve sub 1min  So please keep us updated in the race to sub-20! Congrats again and thanks for the inspiration you give (without knowing it probably)!


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## MarcelP (Nov 7, 2012)

You are very welcome! Thanks for the kind words. I find it still hard to believe that I became so fast. But it proves that anyone with the right mentality and dedication can get very fast (faster than sub 30 I mean). I have set my goal for sub 20 in about 12 months from now. Right now I have started color neutral solving. I am currently just sub 1 minute doing CN solves. I will never use it in a competition, but it is real fun, and it is true puzzling. I mean, to solve a cube CN is not a mechanical thing like when I do cross on white. I really have to think about what I am doing.


----------



## moralsh (Nov 7, 2012)

I'm ahead of you on this, just did a Aof5 to check:

34.63, 58.75, 42.77, 42.35, 47.39 ---> 44.17

first was white, then blue, blue, red and green. Last time I tried being color neutral I was around the same averages as with the white cross I guess I had 0 lookahead back then 

Keep us posted with your progress, my bet is that you will be sub 40 within a week, no pressure


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## Gordon (Nov 7, 2012)

A few days ago I also thought to start trying to become color neutral.
I then found this thread with a way I think could help me:

http://www.speedsolving.com/forum/showthread.php?34655-How-to-Be-Color-Neutral-in-One-Month

Maybe it will help you too.


----------



## MarcelP (Nov 8, 2012)

moralsh said:


> I'm ahead of you on this, just did a Aof5 to check:
> 
> 34.63, 58.75, 42.77, 42.35, 47.39 ---> 44.17
> 
> ...



I highly doubt it  I will do some timed CN solves this week to see what my times are.



Gordon said:


> A few days ago I also thought to start trying to become color neutral.
> I then found this thread with a way I think could help me:
> 
> http://www.speedsolving.com/forum/showthread.php?34655-How-to-Be-Color-Neutral-in-One-Month
> ...



Thanks, I will look into it later today after work.


----------



## MarcelP (Nov 10, 2012)

ThomasJE said:


> Nice! I think you should start on build rings - there's a good video on it here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QxO54OfqcsE.



I just had found the time to watch this video. I like this approach! I will have to start train like that.



moralsh said:


> I'm ahead of you on this, just did a Aof5 to check:
> 
> 34.63, 58.75, 42.77, 42.35, 47.39 ---> 44.17



No, you are waaay ahead. I just did a Ao5 CN. My times where all around the 1:10 - 1:30! I also did a Ao5 on cross on yellow and had a average of 43 seconds. I guess for now cross on white is really the one thing I am good at. LOL


----------



## moralsh (Nov 10, 2012)

just did another:

Ao5 38.93
(55.77), (29.68), 42.13, 33.29, 41.37
orange (pop), yellow, orange, green, green

I guess being slower helps my lookahead. I think I've been extremely lucky, but I'm tempted to make the switch before I hit sub 30.

On another subject, I just noticed all my PB are 4 seconds slower than yours except the single, which is 8, funny, isn't it?


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## MarcelP (Nov 10, 2012)

Yes, if I had your averages on CN there is no way that I would stick with white crosses. I will give CN one more week to kick in.. About the 4 seconds.. Yes, our progress is quite the same. Very nice! Soon we will have the same times lol


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## MarcelP (Nov 10, 2012)

sneaklyfox said:


> Right... that is a Y perm. You don't like the standard F (R U' R' U') (R U R' F') (R U R' U') (R' F R F')?



So, I finally have the peace to start working on my PLL's. And I just love this algorithm. I am almost as fast as the T-perm on this one. Thanks for the heads up!


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## MarcelP (Nov 10, 2012)

Now that I am one of the cool guys (Almost true sub 30  ) I thought it would be easy to make a Ao5 sub 30 video. Well.. it took me more than an hour or so.. In fact I have not had a sub 30 Ao12 the last few days. Today my Ao12 are sometimes even up in the 34 range. Making a video makes me nervous but I think it is good practice. 

I performed a wrong PLL somewhere in there. But since it is no contest I don't care 


Average: 29.59
(27.50) 29.84 29.02 (30.38) 29.90


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## ThomasJE (Nov 10, 2012)

Nice! You're TPS has improved no doubt. One thing - the 29.84 would be a DNF - and you can set that in the bottom left corner. So that would become the worst time.


----------



## ben1996123 (Nov 10, 2012)

MarcelP said:


> Now that I am one of the cool guys (Almost true sub 30  ) I thought it would be easy to make a Ao5 sub 30 video. Well.. it took me more than an hour or so.. In fact I have not had a sub 30 Ao12 the last few days. Today my Ao12 are sometimes even up in the 34 range. Making a video makes me nervous but I think it is good practice.
> 
> I performed a wrong PLL somewhere in there. But since it is no contest I don't care
> 
> ...



How didn't you see that the cube wasn't solved on the 29.84?

Also, stop the timer faster and that will improve your average by like 1.5 seconds.


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## MarcelP (Nov 10, 2012)

ThomasJE said:


> Nice! You're TPS has improved no doubt. One thing - the 29.84 would be a DNF - and you can set that in the bottom left corner. So that would become the worst time.



Thanks Thomas. Yes, I know there was a way to do something with the DNF. But I figured let's do the 5 solves first  I really did not care about the wrongly executed PLL. 



ben1996123 said:


> How didn't you see that the cube wasn't solved on the 29.84?
> 
> Also, stop the timer faster and that will improve your average by like 1.5 seconds.



Yes, I did see it when I stopped the timer. The video looks like there is enough lights. Well actually there is a spot light from above. So from the sides it is quite hard to tell the colors apart. Unfortunately it is dark really early in Holland now. 

To improve my timer stopping have I ordered a QJ timer. I think, it will get better quickly then.


----------



## ben1996123 (Nov 10, 2012)

MarcelP said:


> To improve my timer stopping have I ordered a QJ timer. I think, it will get better quickly then.



all you need to do is move your hand to the spacebar faster instead of looking at the cube then moving your hand really slowly to the spacebar and wasting tons of time.


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## sneaklyfox (Nov 11, 2012)

Tip on the OLL you used in the second solve. Instead of executing those double R moves all as R2, alternate with R2'. That way you don't need to regrip your right hand.


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## MarcelP (Nov 11, 2012)

sneaklyfox said:


> Tip on the OLL you used in the second solve. Instead of executing those double R moves all as R2, alternate with R2'. That way you don't need to regrip your right hand.



Yes, Thomas also mentioned this once to me. It's time to start doing that. I promise I will never show a video doing it wrong


----------



## MarcelP (Nov 11, 2012)

Well, roughly two hours.. 

Rubik's cube
Nov 11, 2012 10:36:47 AM - 12:40:20 PM

Mean: 31.97 (OLD PB Crushed)
Standard deviation: 3.94
Best Time: 23.34
Worst Time: 41.87

Best average of 5: 27.11 ((NEW PB)
35-39 - (24.96) 25.39 (30.21) 27.17 28.78

Best average of 12: 29.20 (EXACT SAME AS PB)
33-44 - 26.65 30.51 (24.96) 25.39 30.21 27.17 28.78 27.65 31.45 (35.85) 33.59 30.64







Whhhoooohoo!


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## god of rubic 2 (Nov 11, 2012)

Congrats, sub 30 AO 12.


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## ThomasJE (Nov 11, 2012)

Nice! You're rapidly improving. If you can get a sub-30 Mo100 by Christmas, that would be great. (43 days!) Also, I looked at your first ever post, and saw this:



MarcelP said:


> ...My goal is to get below one minute...



And now you're nearly half that time. You're going to be on my tail very soon...


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## BenVdd (Nov 11, 2012)

damn you broke my ao100 PB  I'll get you next weekend!


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## MarcelP (Nov 11, 2012)

ThomasJE said:


> Nice! You're rapidly improving. If you can get a sub-30 Mo100 by Christmas, that would be great. (43 days!) Also, I looked at your first ever post, and saw this:
> 
> 
> 
> And now you're nearly half that time. You're going to be on my tail very soon...


Yes, it is going very well lately. Ao100 sub 30 is my first next goal.



BenVdd said:


> damn you broke my ao100 PB  I'll get you next weekend!


What? Not today?


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## BenVdd (Nov 11, 2012)

We celebrated my brothers Bday today so I didn't have the time.


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## MarcelP (Nov 16, 2012)

Ok, my weekly time session. I was hoping for a Sub 31 Ao50. I came so close...






And then at no 51.. Oh man... Are you kidding me?





The last 50 I slowed down in dispite my enthousiasme of my good Ao50.. still new PB Ao 50. Ao5 came real close with 0.04 difference.. My Ao100 went from 31.97 to 31.79.. Yay!!


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## Gordon (Nov 16, 2012)

Something I always wondered is how much you practice per day/week?
Because a some weeks ago, we had approx. the same avg of 12. 
Now you are already 10-12 seconds faster than me :tu


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## MarcelP (Nov 16, 2012)

Hoi Gordon,

Looking at my race to sub 30 results there are no sudden jumps in my speed. I started out in week 121 with an Ao12 of 48 seconds. 





I practice about one hour per day. On friday I do my big time session (with takes about 2 hours). And of course when I watch TV or so I might have a cube in my hands  I travel to my work by train. So when I am not a sleep in the train I do slow solves. About 50 each day I guess. How much do you practice?

EDIT: I forgot to mention, I only practice things I am not good at. Crosses, difficult F2L cases, Lookahead etc. Untill now I take about one second of my times every week. I noticed you have been at the same times for a few weeks in de race to sub 30. I might hit that wall soon too..


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## MarcelP (Nov 16, 2012)

Low 20 are very rare in my solves. Today I had a nice one due to a PLL skip. 
Also, this is my brand new Dayan Lunhui. Very smooth and silent cube. I love it! I just hate the color on these stickers. Can wait to get a half bricht set stickers on it:

scramble: R2 U2 R2 L2 D' R2 D' L2 U2 F2 U F' R2 B2 U'R'B U2 R D2

[video=youtube_share;ZgkPM0WX_Zk]http://youtu.be/ZgkPM0WX_Zk[/video]


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## Gordon (Nov 16, 2012)

MarcelP said:


> How much do you practice?



I do not practice that much.
Usualy I do something between 0 and 12 real solves per day, but mostly none. By real solves I mean solves where I try to do my very best.
The most of the times i just scamble and solve the cube. This doesn't realy help my times but unfortunatly I do not have time to practice more...

Yesterday I decided to at least do one avg of 12 per day. I wonder how long I can do this.

And practicing on my way to work would not be a good idea, I go by car


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## sneaklyfox (Nov 16, 2012)

Hey Marcel, nice you got a timer! I don't have a timer yet. I would get one if I am close to going to a comp for sure so I can practice using one. I have a white Lunhui too and agree that it is quite smooth and quiet.


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## ThomasJE (Nov 16, 2012)

sneaklyfox said:


> Hey Marcel, nice you got a timer! I don't have a timer yet. I would get one if I am close to going to a comp for sure so I can practice using one. I have a white Lunhui too and agree that it is quite smooth and quiet.



If you do get one, get a Speedstacks V2. They are the ones predominantly used in comps and can also be connected to PPT, CCT and also cstimer.

Also, nice solve! I'll try to reconstruct that later.


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## MarcelP (Nov 16, 2012)

sneaklyfox said:


> Hey Marcel, nice you got a timer! I don't have a timer yet. I would get one if I am close to going to a comp for sure so I can practice using one. I have a white Lunhui too and agree that it is quite smooth and quiet.



Yes, I love this cube. It's definatly not as fast as my Zhanchi but out of the box smooth. It's really nice. I bought it so that when I am sub 30 (graduated) that I want to start one handed 



ThomasJE said:


> If you do get one, get a Speedstacks V2. They are the ones predominantly used in comps and can also be connected to PPT, CCT and also cstimer.
> 
> Also, nice solve! I'll try to reconstruct that later.



Thanks Thomas. About the timer. I bought it from DealMaz. It's less than 10 dollars including shipping to Holland  I use it just to get the hang of it. It's quite different than hitting a spacebar.


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## MarcelP (Nov 16, 2012)

Gordon said:


> I do not practice that much.


It's a shame since you have a great turning style. I know you have the potention to be much faster than me.


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## sneaklyfox (Nov 17, 2012)

MarcelP said:


> Yes, I love this cube. It's definatly not as fast as my Zhanchi but out of the box smooth. It's really nice. I bought it so that when I am sub 30 (graduated) that I want to start one handed



Yeah, I find that I'm better OH with the Lunhui than my Guhongv1 (main). But I am actually using a 50mm Zhanchi for OH. I want to get a 55mm Zhanchi to try that for OH.


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## ThomasJE (Nov 17, 2012)

*MarcelP 20.99 Single*



Spoiler: Video



[video=youtube_share;ZgkPM0WX_Zk]http://youtu.be/ZgkPM0WX_Zk[/video]



R2 U2 R2 L2 D' R2 D' L2 U2 F2 U F' R2 B2 U' R' B U2 R D2

x2 y' // Inspection
L D L y' U' l U' l' // Cross
R U' U' U' R' U' U' L' U' L // F2L 1
U' R U' R' U' U' y R' U' R // F2L 2
y' U' U' R U' R' U R U R' // F2L 3
y R U' R' U' y' R' U2 R U' R' U R // F2L 4
r y R U R' U' x z' R' // OELL
U' U' F' L F l' U' L' U l // OCLL
U // AUF
View at alg.garron.us

Stats:

```
[B]Step	Time	HTM	HTPS	ETM	ETPS[/B]
[COLOR="#FF0000"]Total	20.99	57	2.72	71	3.38[/COLOR]
Cross+1	6.15	14	2.28	18	2.93
F2L	14.79	41	2.77	51	3.45
LL	6.20	16	2.58	20	3.23
					
[B]%          	Time	HTM	ETM[/B]		
Cross+1/F2L	41.6%	34.1%	35.3%		
F2L/Total	70.5%	71.9%	71.8%		
LL/Total	29.5%	28.1%	28.2%
```


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## MarcelP (Nov 17, 2012)

Thanks Thomas. I see now that there where no easy 2Fl pair cases. I am even more impressed with my time. Cross is still my slowest thing I see. Need to do some more work on that.


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## MarcelP (Nov 17, 2012)

Ok guys, what did I do wrong here?

I had a very lucky scramble. The cross is almost complete and I see two pairs. Stil I got a 24.something. I thought I was going for a world record.. LOL I must be doing something very wrong here. what?

Scramble: U' B2 L2 D2 R2 L2 F2 U' F2 D' L2 B R' F2 R' D' B' F L2 F' D' 


[video=youtube_share;06L3a0SoP0o]http://youtu.be/06L3a0SoP0o[/video]


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## ThomasJE (Nov 17, 2012)

What you need to remember is that you may see pairs, but when you come to do them, they may need more moves than you think, and when you come to the next pair, it's been broken up.

EDIT: I tried CFOP speedsolving it, but popped... :fp:
EDIT 2: 20.18 DNF.
EDIT 3: 19.82. 3rd time lucky...


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## MarcelP (Nov 17, 2012)

Yes, and looking at your times I know I have done not so bad at all  I would have guessed you be closer to 10 seconds on this scramble.. LOL


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## Schmidt (Nov 17, 2012)

I got 19.11 CFOP
z2
D2 R' D2 
y L U' L' U L' U' L
U2 R' U' R U2 R' U R
L U L' U L U' L'
R U' R' U2 R U2 R' U R U' R' (I need to get rid of these 11 move f2l pairs)
U2 L' U' L U' L F' L' F L' U2 L' 
y U M2 U M' U2 M U M2


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## MarcelP (Nov 17, 2012)

Schmidt said:


> I got 19.11 CFOP
> (I need to get rid of these 11 move f2l pairs)



LOL. me too


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## BenVdd (Nov 17, 2012)

i got 22.41s on it (PB yay)


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## MarcelP (Nov 17, 2012)

Nice Ben! I will do it on my stickerless Zhanchi tomorrow. Try if I can beat your time


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## Goosly (Nov 17, 2012)

got 16.something on it, so not a bad time, but not great either.
the cross is easy, but that doesn't mean it will be you PB


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## Kattenvriendin (Nov 17, 2012)

Oh is that the scramble that Ben talked about in his topic?

U' B2 L2 D2 R2 L2 F2 U' F2 D' L2 B R' F2 R' D' B' F L2 F' D'

?


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## MarcelP (Nov 17, 2012)

Yep, see page 39


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## Kattenvriendin (Nov 17, 2012)

30:41 and that with a fiddle so it could have been faster still!

(and yeah I filmed it)

Ok and whoa.. tried that solve again and upon creating the yellow cross it got solved. Had I timed that one.. lol

Fiddlefidget..


----------



## MarcelP (Nov 17, 2012)

Kattenvriendin said:


> 30:41 and that with a fiddle so it could have been faster still!
> 
> (and yeah I filmed it)



Nice! You are getting faster real quick too


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## Kattenvriendin (Nov 17, 2012)

That is because of that scramble lol!

Lookahead is getting better, I found two pairs without scanning around the cube there. On the last layer I did have to scan real quick before throwing the algo out, ah well.. it is what it is 

At Voorburg some folks told me my Zhanchi is SO quiet.

I dunno.. hehe.


----------



## ben1996123 (Nov 17, 2012)

BenVdd said:


> i got 22.41s on it (PB yay)



its not your pb if you didnt get the scramble yourself


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## BenVdd (Nov 17, 2012)

i'm not gonna count it as my personal record... I just meant that that solve was faster than my personal record. It was my personal best solve, didn't say it was "official" or anything.. jeez


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## Kattenvriendin (Nov 17, 2012)

ben1996123 said:


> its not your pb if you didnt get the scramble yourself



Says who?

High horse. Off please


----------



## MWilson (Nov 18, 2012)

There's actually a three move X-Cross on the opposite face:

// Scramble
U' B2 L2 D2 R2 L2 F2 U' F2 D' L2 B R' F2 R' D' B' F L2 F' D'

// Cross
F R2 u'

// F2L
U' L' U2 L U' L' U L
R' U2' R U' R' U' R
d L' U2 L U' L' U L

// LL
U' R U R' U' M' U R U' r'
M2 U' M2 U2 M2 U' M2

13.62s

Actually there's probably a good double X-Cross considering the FR edge ends up in place as well, but I'm no good at that.


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## ben1996123 (Nov 18, 2012)

Kattenvriendin said:


> Says who?



most people.


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## BenVdd (Nov 18, 2012)

I do wonder, if I solve a scramble i haven't solved before and it turns out to be my fastest solve. How can it not be my personal best. I just don't see the logic


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## ben1996123 (Nov 18, 2012)

BenVdd said:


> I do wonder, if I solve a scramble i haven't solved before and it turns out to be my fastest solve. How can it not be my personal best. I just don't see the logic



it wasn't your scramble. you knew it was an easy scramble and that's the only reason you did it.


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## BenVdd (Nov 18, 2012)

And that put me in an alternate universe in wich that is my personal best , but in this universe it isn't? Its the same as getting a lucky scramble.


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## MWilson (Nov 18, 2012)

ben1996123 said:


> it wasn't your scramble. you knew it was an easy scramble and that's the only reason you did it.



So essentially, when you only use your own scrambles it means everyone has the same chance (not really, because not everyone uses the same scrambler, but still) to get easy scrambles. However, when people use easy scrambles posted by other they are not getting it by chance. I could look for easy scrambles posted online all day and get a dozen PBs. Really this all comes down to the issues with single times not having much value over averages. A new PB avg12 from the same scrambler you have been using for a the last while will be much more meaningful and accurate of an assessment than getting a new PB avg12 from 12 easy scrambles found on the forums.


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## BenVdd (Nov 18, 2012)

note to self : next time say "oh wow this was better than my personal best" instead of saying it is my personal best , wich technically it is. People get so butthurt over silly things. Now let's give this thread back to Marcel


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## sneaklyfox (Nov 18, 2012)

Actually, I see nothing really wrong with finding an easy scramble posted by someone else and getting a PB single with it. They are real scrambles. Just not using it in an average.


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## SpeedSolve (Nov 18, 2012)

Kattenvriendin said:


> U' B2 L2 D2 R2 L2 F2 U' F2 D' L2 B R' F2 R' D' B' F L2 F' D'



12.786. I average 21 lol


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## Kattenvriendin (Nov 18, 2012)

ben1996123 said:


> it wasn't your scramble. you knew it was an easy scramble and that's the only reason you did it.



If given scrambles, no matter how lucky or not, are not vallid, then all PBs made in the race threads and such are invalid as well.

Enough with the nonsense already. If you cannot do better than "everyone", which is a standard 5 year old answer, then please go troll elsewhere. 



On topic: I don't have my own topic, hopefully Marcel won't mind me stealing his for just a sec.. anyone tried my lucky scramble that I got my PB with?

R2 D2 L' U2 L2 R' F2 U2 L2 R2 D2 B2 R' D2 U' B2 D' F2 R' B2 F' U2 L2

I got 29.81 with that one at the beginning of October.


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## Goosly (Nov 18, 2012)

^ 17.26
easy cross + first F2L, and EOLL skip, but V-perm 

As for the PB discussion, just choose for yourself if you want to count it as your PB. I could give you a really easy scramble, with all 4-move F2L pairs. You would get maybe 12 sec on it, would you want that to be your PB? I hope not.
The race thread argument is invalid, we're discussing PB's set on scrambles that were posted along with the words: 'OMG TRY THIS SCRAMBLE SO EASY' (or something similar)


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## Kattenvriendin (Nov 18, 2012)

Yeah.. ok, true that. But still, if someone starts shouting that the scrambles given in a race were easy and then everyone else jumps on the bandwagon on that one and gets PBs with that scramble set given there, we couldn't count those either then?

Fun part about the lucky scrambles is that someone else may have a totally different solving method and thus not see it as lucky. Yeah ok.. three of the cross in IS lucky, and indeed it DOES show the value of the averages. I am sure Zemdegs has had a lucky 4s solve at home at some point in time *giggle*

I had a lucky one the first time I competed with two of the cross in. Audible to folks around me I said "don't f*ck this one up". LOL


----------



## MarcelP (Nov 18, 2012)

Kattenvriendin said:


> Fun part about the lucky scrambles is that someone else may have a totally different solving method and thus not see it as lucky.





Yes! Indeed. And not even other methods. For example the post of 'Schmidt' taught me a new F2l Pairing. And the D2 R'D2 cross.. I am real happy with that!


----------



## MarcelP (Nov 18, 2012)

MarcelP said:


> Nice Ben! I will do it on my stickerless Zhanchi tomorrow. Try if I can beat your time



Well, I tried with my Stickerless. I could not get a good time even if my life depended on it. All in the 25+ seconds.. That cube is too loose or something.. LOL I tried different cubes. And I got my fastest time on my Type C. Love that cube:

[video=youtube_share;R1Bl5kZ3WsU]http://youtu.be/R1Bl5kZ3WsU[/video]



sneaklyfox said:


> Tip on the OLL you used in the second solve. Instead of executing those double R moves all as R2, alternate with R2'. That way you don't need to regrip your right hand.





MarcelP said:


> Yes, Thomas also mentioned this once to me. It's time to start doing that. I promise I will never show a video doing it wrong



As promised.. R2 and R2'


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## BenVdd (Nov 18, 2012)

Nice one, i need to get that R2 R2' into my skillset but it feels so awkward. And @Goosly : Obviously i don't count lucky scrambles for PB , No matter if i got it from someone else or from a generator...


----------



## MarcelP (Nov 18, 2012)

BenVdd said:


> Nice one, i need to get that R2 R2' into my skillset but it feels so awkward.



I do it in every solve now. I took only a day for it to become natural  It is actually faster.. I timed it..


----------



## Kattenvriendin (Nov 18, 2012)

I obviously missed something again (man I am so slow on Sundays..) the R2 R2' ?


Is that something like that "schommeltje" that I showed a few days ago on the T perm Marcel?

(for info, I do the T perm with this: R2 U R2' U' R2 U' D R2' U' R2 U R2' D' )


----------



## MarcelP (Nov 18, 2012)

Kattenvriendin said:


> I obviously missed something again (man I am so slow on Sundays..) the R2 R2' ?
> 
> 
> Is that something like that "schommeltje" that I showed a few days ago on the T perm Marcel?
> ...




No, it's an OLL which I always did with only R2: Clickerdeclick


----------



## ThomasJE (Nov 18, 2012)

And here is how I would execute it. And a move by move breakdown:
R - right hand
U2' - double U flick on left hand (I know you struggle with these, but they are easier to do in an algorithm rather than intuitively like F2L)
R2 - right hand (I would twist my right hand back during U2')
U' - left index
R2' - right hand
U' - left index
R2 - right hand
U2' - double U flick on left hand
R - right index pushing on BRD sticker


----------



## sneaklyfox (Nov 18, 2012)

Kattenvriendin said:


> On topic: I don't have my own topic, hopefully Marcel won't mind me stealing his for just a sec.. anyone tried my lucky scramble that I got my PB with?
> 
> R2 D2 L' U2 L2 R' F2 U2 L2 R2 D2 B2 R' D2 U' B2 D' F2 R' B2 F' U2 L2
> 
> I got 29.81 with that one at the beginning of October.



13.03. Nice scramble.

On topic: Marcel, nice solve and execution of OLL. You didn't even pause going into OLL!


----------



## MarcelP (Nov 18, 2012)

Thanks!

And would you believe this? My second scramble of this afternoon:








Here is what I baked of it:

U' F2 L2 D' L2 U L2 D2 L2 U' R2 F L' F2 U B' D' B L F2

[video=youtube_share;_KG1Kgwse_A]http://youtu.be/_KG1Kgwse_A[/video]


----------



## BenVdd (Nov 18, 2012)

nice


----------



## sneaklyfox (Nov 18, 2012)

Is that a Z perm? What's your alg?


----------



## MarcelP (Nov 18, 2012)

sneaklyfox said:


> Is that a Z perm? What's your alg?



Yes, and it is one of my slowest. But because I do mix H and Z up I use this one:

Z: M'2 u M2' D' M S M'

[video=youtube_share;3UahABXQmdg]http://youtu.be/3UahABXQmdg[/video]


----------



## ThomasJE (Nov 18, 2012)

25.18 ZZ, 23.25 CFOP. I did mess up an F2L pair though.


----------



## BenVdd (Nov 18, 2012)

I got a 21.85 on that one. easy F2L pairs and a T-perm to finish with.


----------



## sneaklyfox (Nov 18, 2012)

MarcelP said:


> Z: M'2 u M2' D' M *S2* M'



^ correction


----------



## MarcelP (Nov 18, 2012)

Yep, thanks.


----------



## Kattenvriendin (Nov 18, 2012)

Nifty times Marcel!


----------



## Schmidt (Nov 18, 2012)

MarcelP said:


> U' F2 L2 D' L2 U L2 D2 L2 U' R2 F L' F2 U B' D' B L F2



45.13  2 piece pop during R perm. It is not easy to put them in while trying to hold the rest of the cube together.


----------



## 5BLD (Nov 18, 2012)

sneaklyfox said:


> Actually, I see nothing really wrong with finding an easy scramble posted by someone else and getting a PB single with it. They are real scrambles. Just not using it in an average.



With the sheer, well, easiness of some of the scrambles posted I think this is quite a foolish thing to say.


----------



## ben1996123 (Nov 18, 2012)

sneaklyfox said:


> Actually, I see nothing really wrong with finding an easy scramble posted by someone else and getting a PB single with it. They are real scrambles. Just not using it in an average.



cool, my pb is sub 6 then.



Kattenvriendin said:


> If given scrambles, no matter how lucky or not, are not vallid, then all PBs made in the race threads and such are invalid as well.



you (should) know what i mean. its not your pb if you only did it because you knew it was an easy scramble.




Spoiler



i'm just quoting this here so that 5bld cant remove it if he decides to because someboodeeh might be offended.



5BLD said:


> sneaklyfox said:
> 
> 
> > Actually, I see nothing really wrong with finding an easy scramble posted by someone else and getting a PB single with it. They are real scrambles. Just not using it in an average.
> ...


----------



## BenVdd (Nov 18, 2012)

It does not change the fact that you solved the cube faster than previous tries hence your personal best solve. It's a personal descision to think of it like that or not. I know I don't i said "new pb" meaning : this was my best solve to this date. If someone would ask me what my best time is I wouldn't respond with the time I got on this scramble. Now let's just drop it cuz "you used someone elses scramble thus it was not your best solve" is just paradoxal and moronic.


----------



## sneaklyfox (Nov 18, 2012)

Hey look! Marcel's intro thread is so popular it even sparked an argument! (Except I don't think Marcel himself was really involved!)


----------



## Noahaha (Nov 19, 2012)

sneaklyfox said:


> Hey look! Marcel's intro thread is so popular it even sparked an argument! (Except I don't think Marcel himself was really involved!)



http://www.speedsolving.com/forum/showthread.php?34329-I-m-New

=D


----------



## Kattenvriendin (Nov 19, 2012)

ROFL.. so you like Brussel's sprouts 

Too bad really that when you start learning the cube though the first and pretty much only method that comes up when googling IS Fridrich. 

Ah well.. as long as in the end we don't peel off stickers any method is fine.. right 


Morning to the long thread Marcel *giggle*


----------



## MarcelP (Nov 19, 2012)

sneaklyfox said:


> Hey look! Marcel's intro thread is so popular it even sparked an argument! (Except I don't think Marcel himself was really involved!)



Nah, I did not care enough to put my 2 cents in.. 



Kattenvriendin said:


> Morning to the long thread Marcel *giggle*



LOL, 44 pages and still going strong..


----------



## sneaklyfox (Nov 19, 2012)

MarcelP said:


> LOL, 44 pages and still going strong..



I wonder at what page we'll be when you cross sub-20... Guesses anyone?


----------



## ThomasJE (Nov 19, 2012)

sneaklyfox said:


> I wonder at what page we'll be when you cross sub-20... Guesses anyone?



72


----------



## Goosly (Nov 19, 2012)

87


----------



## ben1996123 (Nov 19, 2012)

about ln(643767856948778385327598836694880) pages


----------



## ThomasJE (Nov 19, 2012)

ben1996123 said:


> about ln(643767856948778385327598836694880) pages



75.5448909804	

According to Google


----------



## ben1996123 (Nov 19, 2012)

ThomasJE said:


> 75.5448909804
> 
> According to Google


i know.


----------



## MarcelP (Nov 19, 2012)

sneaklyfox said:


> I wonder at what page we'll be when you cross sub-20... Guesses anyone?



LOL, I doubt I will ever get there... Breaking sub 30 will be a highlight for me..


----------



## moralsh (Nov 19, 2012)

ThomasJE said:


> 75.5448909804
> 
> According to Google



That means in an edit of post #755 while someone else is almost halfway through the #756 post, that's gonna need some timing (and practice on Marcel side, of course) 

I hope it's at least around page 250 regardless of the time spent in improving, that'll mean that we've been having a nice conversation around here for 5 times what we already have


----------



## Ninja Storm (Nov 19, 2012)

Holy crap, this is the longest intro I've ever seen 0_o


----------



## sneaklyfox (Nov 19, 2012)

MarcelP said:


> LOL, I doubt I will ever get there... Breaking sub 30 will be a highlight for me..



But you already broke sub-30? Or do you mean graduating the sub-30 race? You're so close. And yeah, it will be a highlight for sure, but then you can move to the sub-20 race... heehee...

Three months ago, you got a 24.xx solve and you said, "It nearly gave me heartattack. I would have never never dreamed of getting this fast." And then not long later you also got a sub-20 solve. If you can do it once, you can do it again.

Well, at least you say you "never dreamed" and that you "doubt". Better than saying you'll never get there. You'll get there, especially with all this support behind you in this thread. I know we're all cheering you on...


----------



## MarcelP (Nov 19, 2012)

moralsh said:


> that'll mean that we've been having a nice conversation around here for 5 times what we already have



Yes, I look out every day for new posts in this topic 



sneaklyfox said:


> But you already broke sub-30? Or do you mean graduating the sub-30 race? You're so close. And yeah, it will be a highlight for sure, but then you can move to the sub-20 race... heehee...
> 
> Three months ago, you got a 24.xx solve and you said, "It nearly gave me heartattack. I would have never never dreamed of getting this fast." And then not long later you also got a sub-20 solve. If you can do it once, you can do it again.
> 
> Well, at least you say you "never dreamed" and that you "doubt". Better than saying you'll never get there. You'll get there, especially with all this support behind you in this thread. I know we're all cheering you on...



I think it will take a few years to get real sub 20. And with real sub 30 I mean doing a Ao100 sub 30 without any problems. LOL I think that time will come soon. But sub 20 is very very far off.. I really appreciate all the help I am getting here. I should start paying you guys. LOL Thanks for the support Sneaklyfox!


----------



## sneaklyfox (Nov 19, 2012)

MarcelP said:


> Yes, I look out every day for new posts in this topic
> 
> I think it will take a few years to get real sub 20. And with real sub 30 I mean doing a Ao100 sub 30 without any problems. LOL I think that time will come soon. But sub 20 is very very far off.. I really appreciate all the help I am getting here. I should start paying you guys. LOL Thanks for the support Sneaklyfox!



It's just so much fun following you to see how you're improving. I'm getting to watch all the videos and be entertained... I should be paying you instead haha. Anyway, our "help" isn't really very much. 99% of it is your own intentional and good practice you're putting in. Ok, Ao100 sub 30... but I don't see that as being that far off. And sub 20 won't take years if you keep practicing like you're doing now.


----------



## SpeedSolve (Nov 19, 2012)

I'm okay with a weekly salary for viewing this thread...


----------



## Schmidt (Nov 19, 2012)

I have PayPal. All that cross help might me worth a few danske kroner


----------



## MarcelP (Nov 20, 2012)

LOL, the two things I do not have enough of are money and free time.. Otherwise I would have paid you guys a lot.


----------



## sneaklyfox (Nov 20, 2012)

MarcelP said:


> LOL, the two things I do not have enough of are money and free time.. Otherwise I would have paid you guys a lot.



That's because you like to use your money to buy cubes. Just send me a cube and we'll call it even. 

2 hours of cube practice a day sounds like plenty "free time" to me.


----------



## MarcelP (Nov 20, 2012)

Actually most of that time is in the train travelleling to work (3 hours per day).. I do NOT count that as free time..


----------



## Schmidt (Nov 20, 2012)

Get up at 4:30 instead, cube, then sleep for 1.5 hours on your way to work = free time!


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## MarcelP (Nov 20, 2012)

I do get up at 4:30, so I can get on my bicycle and go to the train at 5:30. Then spend 1.5 hours in the train, get at work at 07:00, and go back to home at 16:00. I arrive at around 18:00 Then eat in a hurry, put my 3 year old to bed, then go to my studyroom and study for a few hours.. Then early to bed for the same drag the next day..


----------



## sneaklyfox (Nov 20, 2012)

MarcelP said:


> I do get up at 4:30, so I can get on my bicycle and go to the train at 5:30. Then spend 1.5 hours in the train, get at work at 07:00, and go back to home at 16:00. I arrive at around 18:00 Then eat in a hurry, put my 3 year old to bed, then go to my studyroom and study for a few hours.. Then early to bed for the same drag the next day..



Ugh... getting up at 4:30 sounds brutal. If my kids wake me up before 7am, I am already complaining...


----------



## Kattenvriendin (Nov 20, 2012)

Ugh geez.. how long do you have to study still?

Oh one important tip: wife.

I take it you have one? wife + attention (sometimes lol).


----------



## MarcelP (Nov 21, 2012)

sneaklyfox said:


> Ugh... getting up at 4:30 sounds brutal. If my kids wake me up before 7am, I am already complaining...



Yes, it is and allready three nights in a row my 3 year old is awake with night terror at 1 oclock and 3 oclock.... I am pretty much a zomby now. 


Kattenvriendin said:


> Ugh geez.. how long do you have to study still?
> 
> Oh one important tip: wife.
> 
> I take it you have one? wife + attention (sometimes lol).



Yes, it's hard but I try to mix the right amount of effort into study and right amount of attention. I am working on my 'afstudeer onderzoek' right now so I hope to be finished April 2013 or so..


----------



## sneaklyfox (Nov 21, 2012)

I heard men usually don't hear their kids crying in the middle of the night. At least, that's what some of my girl friends say about their husbands.


----------



## MarcelP (Nov 21, 2012)

Well this night I was awake again at 3 AM. Oh man...... The one good thing about night terror is that it should go away from age 4.. So only a few months to go..


----------



## BenVdd (Nov 21, 2012)

@sneaklyfox. It is true that women are more "vulnerable(cant find the proper word)" to high pitched noise wich makes them wake from their sleep when they hear babies cry more easely


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## MarcelP (Nov 21, 2012)

BenVdd said:


> "vulnerable(cant find the proper word)"



You mean Sensitive?


----------



## BenVdd (Nov 21, 2012)

Yes! thank you  I was literally staring at my screen 10 minutes trying to find that word. couldn't even find it in dutch


----------



## Schmidt (Nov 21, 2012)

I guess Marcel found the Dutch word and google translated it, that is why it starts with a capital S.


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## MarcelP (Nov 21, 2012)

LOL.. No I don't need Google translate for English.


----------



## Kattenvriendin (Nov 21, 2012)

LOL at least that wouldn't ever go for me.. but then again, one I don't have kids and two I hear nothing without my extra ears... so.. I guess that helps LOL!


----------



## sneaklyfox (Nov 21, 2012)

BenVdd said:


> @sneaklyfox. It is true that women are more "vulnerable(cant find the proper word)" to high pitched noise wich makes them wake from their sleep when they hear babies cry more easely



I think women are just more naturally tuned in to the needs of their kids. Actually, I don't know if there is any scientific evidence that women are more sensitive to high pitched noises. I think there are more men who sleep more deeply than women. It's probably just as well for the men not to hear babies crying in the middle of the night. The men usually have to go and be the bread winners so they need a good night's rest to function well at the workplace. Although nowadays there are a lot of mothers who are trying to keep careers too.


----------



## BenVdd (Nov 21, 2012)

There is actual scientific evidence of women being more sensitive to high pitched noises. But what you bring up is indeed another reason. (women sleeping more lightly then man)


----------



## SpeedSolve (Nov 21, 2012)

MarcelP said:


> You mean Sensitive?



I think perceptible is a better word.


----------



## SpeedSolve (Nov 21, 2012)

Also, here is your scientific proof. http://www.mcrcad.org/2010-Sax-hearing.pdf


----------



## MarcelP (Nov 23, 2012)

Today a slight improvement of the Ao50 PB!

There was only one Ao12 sub 30 in there. I guess I am not true sub 30 yet


----------



## BenVdd (Nov 23, 2012)

It's not because you didnt get mutliple ao12 sub 30's that you aren't true sub 30! Hold your head up high! ^^


----------



## MarcelP (Nov 23, 2012)

BenVdd said:


> It's not because you didnt get mutliple ao12 sub 30's that you aren't true sub 30! Hold your head up high! ^^



Great song btw (Hold your head up, Ben Howard)

Did also break my Ao100. Up until the 90th solve I was sub 31! But I quess I got tired...





EDIT: I see another PB Ao3 25.73


----------



## BenVdd (Nov 23, 2012)

see! that session wasnt half that bad! ao12 new pb aswell by the way


----------



## MarcelP (Nov 23, 2012)

BenVdd said:


> see! that session wasnt half that bad! ao12 new pb aswell by the way




LOL. I totally missed that one..!


----------



## BenVdd (Nov 23, 2012)

see! that was a pretty good session !


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## MarcelP (Nov 23, 2012)

Yes, the 22.97 was a real nice scramble: U' R2 U2 B2 D L2 B2 U2 B2 L2 D F' L F U2 L' D2 F' U L' B U

On second try:

[video=youtube_share;R0HlPobMDQw]http://youtu.be/R0HlPobMDQw[/video]


----------



## MarcelP (Nov 24, 2012)

The first 12 solves of today (without warming up 

Best average of 12: 29.94
1-12 - 27.28 30.68 (37.32) 29.20 31.32 (24.06) 34.67 28.56 30.50 31.31 25.90 29.93

Nice....  To bad the rest of the day is for buying groceries, chores etc.. ;(


----------



## BenVdd (Nov 24, 2012)

Nice marcel! See, you are sub30 for real


----------



## Kattenvriendin (Nov 24, 2012)

So.. how'd the scramble of that 2x2 turn out heh


----------



## MarcelP (Nov 24, 2012)

Kattenvriendin said:


> So.. how'd the scramble of that 2x2 turn out heh



Yes, I have not tried it yet because I want to do it on video.. To busy with ' boodschappen' etc.


----------



## Kattenvriendin (Nov 24, 2012)

Nice times you made with that scramble on those cubes


----------



## MarcelP (Nov 24, 2012)

Yeah! PB Ao50 and a sub 29 Ao12!!


----------



## MarcelP (Nov 25, 2012)

Sneaklyfox, you have to update your OH Ao12 PB to 28.86


----------



## BenVdd (Nov 25, 2012)

nice times marcel


----------



## sneaklyfox (Nov 25, 2012)

MarcelP said:


> Sneaklyfox, you have to update your OH Ao12 PB to 28.86



Nice, Marcel! Oh, I think it will be awhile before that happens for me though. I don't even know how I pulled that 29.04.


----------



## MarcelP (Nov 27, 2012)

After sleeping 16 hours because of the flu I had a great Ao100 session. Broke my Ao100, Ao50, Ao12, Ao5 and Ao3 record..


----------



## BenVdd (Nov 27, 2012)

Good job marcel!


----------



## lcsbiffi (Nov 27, 2012)

Nicely done


----------



## MarcelP (Nov 27, 2012)

Thanks guys. I do not know how I pulled it off. I notice a change in finding the pairs. It goes more easily and when i find them I do not have to think about what to do with them so I can look out for the next pair..


----------



## lcsbiffi (Nov 27, 2012)

MarcelP said:


> Thanks guys. I do not know how I pulled it off. I notice a change in finding the pairs. It goes more easily and when i find them I do not have to think about what to do with them so I can look out for the next pair..



I've just found out that i've been doing that since last week. It seems like I don't have as much trouble finding pairs as I used to, and I can insert them quite easily too


----------



## BenVdd (Nov 27, 2012)

I still struggle with finding pairs alot. Frantically scanning the cube after an insertion.. I have been practicing inserting F2L pairs blind, wich is not difficult anymore. But whenever i have my eyes open i cannot keep myself from looking at the pair i'm solving. :/


----------



## Kattenvriendin (Nov 27, 2012)

Ben it will come 

What you can do to help this is slooooowww dooowwwn. Seriously. I did and it is helping me a LOT two weeks down the road


----------



## BenVdd (Nov 27, 2012)

Yes I know. But it's harder than it sounds  I do really bad OH solves to force me to be slower  (my pb is like 1min20s OH )


----------



## Kattenvriendin (Nov 27, 2012)

LOL my pb consists out of dropping the cube with OH, so I gave that up lol

But yeah.. I know it is hard, but at some point in time you will notice you start putting the pairs in without thinking, and that you suddenly seem like you have much more time to look for pairs (that is the lookahead that is starting to work).

But ... yea.. patience and practice  Bummer huh.. no magic pill  lol


----------



## MarcelP (Nov 28, 2012)

Today I got nothing but 34's and 35's and 36's.. AAArgggghhh!


And then I had a very lucky scramble (lucky cross):
L2 U B2 U B2 F2 L2 U L2 U2 F U' B' L B' F L D' U R2 U2
[video=youtube_share;0owtrm_gdtg]http://youtu.be/0owtrm_gdtg[/video]


----------



## Gordon (Nov 28, 2012)

Nice one. 
I will try the scamble as soon as I get my hands on a cube.

Edit:
I had a cube in my bag 
34.86. But I messed up the cross with the first F2L pair, so the time could have been better, maybe not sub 30, but better.
And btw, I had no PLL skip.


----------



## JE007 (Nov 28, 2012)

Good solve!
But, what music were you listening to?


----------



## BenVdd (Nov 28, 2012)

red hot chilli peppers


----------



## MarcelP (Nov 28, 2012)

Yep, Red hot Chili Pepers on the radio


----------



## lcsbiffi (Nov 28, 2012)

hahaha I really like the soundtrack of your solves.


----------



## MarcelP (Nov 28, 2012)

LOL.. I listen to Tool mostly..

Today I totally suck at 3 X 3. Awefull times. I have not had that in weeks. But I had a great PB on the 2 X 2:

EDIT: Scramble: F' U2 F U' F' R' F R' U'

[video=youtube_share;yOmFpbXU9xA]http://youtu.be/yOmFpbXU9xA[/video]


----------



## lcsbiffi (Nov 28, 2012)

Nice solve, what method are you using ? layer by layer ?


----------



## MarcelP (Nov 28, 2012)

No, Ortega. Very cool method. Few algs but still fast.


----------



## BenVdd (Nov 28, 2012)

nice! i should learn ortega aswell


----------



## JE007 (Nov 28, 2012)

I should first buy an 2x2, and then learn ortega...


----------



## MarcelP (Nov 28, 2012)

I learned Ortega in one evening... It's only 10 algs or so where some you allready know from 3 x 3.


----------



## lcsbiffi (Nov 28, 2012)

MarcelP said:


> I learned Ortega in one evening... It's only 10 algs or so where some you allready know from 3 x 3.



I kinda learned Ortega a few months ago but I forgot due to low use of my 2x2


----------



## Kattenvriendin (Nov 29, 2012)

*cough* inbox *cough*


----------



## MarcelP (Nov 29, 2012)

Kattenvriendin said:


> *cough* inbox *cough*



Check


----------



## Kattenvriendin (Nov 29, 2012)

Whahaha yep fixed, just cleaned out mine too just in case hehe.


----------



## MarcelP (Nov 30, 2012)

After I broke thuesday all my PB's I could not get a single decent solve anymore. I mean litterally not one sub 30. I have been doing many Ao12's and some where up in the 36 seconds. Oh man that is discouraging. I kept thinking about how I lost my cool here. Then it occurred to me that I have been practicing slow solves a lot this week to improve my lookahead. The thing is that my fingers got used to the slow turning in F2L. I guess slow turing is not really productive to me anymore. I did a 25 solves or so at fast speed and I got a 31.33 avarage with many sub 30's  Pfeeew.. I almost lost my cool there.. 

One of the best:

L2 U2 B2 D' F2 R2 U R2 U B2 F2 L' B' F' L' U R' D' L D F'
The scramble looked horrible to me. In cross red is on orange, but flipped, Orange is on red but flipped, en blue is on blue but flipped. I just do not know what to do with these awefull crosses. I just start placing them one at a time. Very luckily, all the pairs after that where real real reasy and I got a 21.40:

Let me know how you guys did this scrambe:

[video=youtube_share;1w79-efIZS4]http://youtu.be/1w79-efIZS4[/video]

EDIT:

I finished a set of 50 and it was not all that bad..


----------



## Gordon (Nov 30, 2012)

I think I would have solved it like this: (scrambeled with white on top and green in front)

Inspecion: x2 y' --> yellow on top, orange in front
Cross: D L D B D2 R' u R' u'
1. F2L: y' L' R U' R' U' L
2. F2L: U' F U' F' U L' U L
3. F2L: R' U R U L U2 L' y U' R U' R'
4. F2L: U2 y R U2 R' U R U' R'
OLL: U2 r U R' U R U2 r'
PLL: U' R' U R' d' R' F' R2 U' R' U R' F R F
AUF: U'

http://tinyurl.com/algx2y-DLDBD2R


----------



## Schmidt (Nov 30, 2012)

Cross: F=B: R F' D R' F2 B D'


----------



## MarcelP (Nov 30, 2012)

Schmidt said:


> Cross: F=B: R F' D R' F2 B D'



Nice! That requires knowing how to put orange on blue and green on red. So far I only know how to put (fast) blue on green (or on blue) and red on orange (or red) etc.


----------



## Schmidt (Nov 30, 2012)

Don't think about it like that. If R and O are opp. each other, you just have to place G and B in the right place.


----------



## Goosly (Nov 30, 2012)

Yep. Blue right to orange is all you need to remember 
Don't look at the centers during cross, just finish the cross with a D/D'/D2


----------



## MarcelP (Nov 30, 2012)

You see, there is still so much room for improvement  Crosses is still my weakest part. Although I have come a long way.


----------



## MarcelP (Dec 2, 2012)

After practicing Roux for two days I did a Ao12 on normal CFOP. I had a 28.16. Wow a PB, I kept going and broke my Ao50 also with my first sub 30.


----------



## Kattenvriendin (Dec 2, 2012)

Wow, congratulations!!

Those times look GREAT! I wish I had fast recognition like you mentioned, but.. with time


----------



## MarcelP (Dec 2, 2012)

Thanks! I now honoustly can say I am sub 30 . Well, at least today I am  You will get there soon enough. As soon as you will have learned all the pll's you will start making much better results.


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## Kattenvriendin (Dec 2, 2012)

Learning them is one thing. Seeing the situations and applying the right PLLs is a total other thing lol


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## BenVdd (Dec 2, 2012)

GJ marcel! told you you'd catch up with me again


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## MarcelP (Dec 2, 2012)

Okay, I did my first timed Roux Ao12. And I must say I am very surprised. I expected a lot worse:

Best average of 12: 1:14.55
1-12 - (2:11.05) 1:31.13 1:30.85 1:06.57 1:03.11 1:35.37 1:13.17 1:03.35 1:02.70 (46.85) 1:18.78 1:00.42


I will continue with Roux for a while and see if I get some quick improvement.


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## Kattenvriendin (Dec 2, 2012)

Wow.. you sure pick up things fast!!


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## sneaklyfox (Dec 2, 2012)

MarcelP said:


> Okay, I did my first timed Roux Ao12. And I must say I am very surprised. I expected a lot worse:
> 
> Best average of 12: 1:14.55
> 1-12 - (2:11.05) 1:31.13 1:30.85 1:06.57 1:03.11 1:35.37 1:13.17 1:03.35 1:02.70 (46.85) 1:18.78 1:00.42
> ...



Wow, I think you're faster than me at Roux.


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## mitch1234 (Dec 2, 2012)

Have you tried increasing your TPS? Slow turning is good and all but you really don't need it to get good times. When I averaged about 40 seconds I would do the sexy move for like 10 minutes straight, trying to increase my TPS because even then it felt weird holding the cube. And after doing that for about a week my times dropped because I could turn faster. Surely this will apply to you too with just some practice.


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## sneaklyfox (Dec 2, 2012)

mitch1234 said:


> Have you tried increasing your TPS? Slow turning is good and all but you really don't need it to get good times. When I averaged about 40 seconds I would do the sexy move for like 10 minutes straight, trying to increase my TPS because even then it felt weird holding the cube. And after doing that for about a week my times dropped because I could turn faster. Surely this will apply to you too with just some practice.



10 minutes straight? Oh... my... my hand would be probably be cramping or something. I just practice PLLs. I wonder how do other people practice getting their PLLs fast?


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## mitch1234 (Dec 2, 2012)

sneaklyfox said:


> 10 minutes straight? Oh... my... my hand would be probably be cramping or something. I just practice PLLs. I wonder how do other people practice getting their PLLs fast?


Its easy if you are watching TV or something. And for PLL's most people just do them over and over because practice makes perfect.


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## MarcelP (Dec 3, 2012)

sneaklyfox said:


> Wow, I think you're faster than me at Roux.


Nah, that can't be possibly true. I bet you are even one handed faster then me on Roux 



Kattenvriendin said:


> Wow.. you sure pick up things fast!!



Well, Roux is very simple to pick up. It's very hard to master. It just comes down to this:
-Build first block on the left
-Buid second block on the right with just R, r M and U
-Do one of the two step OLL to get all corners yellow
-If you have headlights perform the J-perm to permute the corners (with headlights on the left)
-If you do not have headlights perform the Y-perm to permute corners.
-Fix all bad egdes iterally with M'UM' or M'U2M' (this is a kind of tricky but I got it after an hour or so)
-When all bad edges are gone, solve the rest intuitively with U and M.



mitch1234 said:


> Have you tried increasing your TPS?



I have tried. It seems like my PB is 17 seconds that must be around 3.5 tps. I think that is about the fastest my hand will do for me.  I am okay with that


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## sneaklyfox (Dec 3, 2012)

MarcelP said:


> Nah, that can't be possibly true. I bet you are even one handed faster then me on Roux



I'm not kidding. You would lose the bet. I suck at Roux. It's probably easier if I do the left and right blocks Fridrich style, but that's not what Roux is about. When I try to throw Fridrich out the window and get "efficient", I have no clue what I'm doing. But then I haven't practiced. And when I need to fix the bad edges, it can be a pain because I'm just guessing. Want me to prove that I'm worse than you?

Ok, here's proof:
Average - 1:22.60
1:16.70, 1:24.92, 1:17.62, 1:20.90, 1:35.71, 1:18.88, 1:09.35, (2:00.98), 1:44.45, 1:09.35, (1:05.71), 1:28.07


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## MarcelP (Dec 3, 2012)

sneaklyfox said:


> Want me to prove that I'm worse than you?
> 
> Ok, here's proof:
> Average - 1:22.60
> 1:16.70, 1:24.92, 1:17.62, 1:20.90, 1:35.71, 1:18.88, 1:09.35, (2:00.98), 1:44.45, 1:09.35, (1:05.71), 1:28.07



LOL. I feel real special now you know? I would never dreamed on being faster in anything than you. I haven't practiced really eighter. I have been trying to figure out the method over the last two days. Maybe one hour per day  I think one week from now I could be sub 1 minute.. I will give it a try. I think Roux is real fun.


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## sneaklyfox (Dec 3, 2012)

MarcelP said:


> LOL. I feel real special now you know? I would never dreamed on being faster in anything than you. I haven't practiced really eighter. I have been trying to figure out the method over the last two days. Maybe one hour per day  I think one week from now I could be sub 1 minute.. I will give it a try. I think Roux is real fun.



Glad you feel special.  Hmm... I don't think I can devote an hour a day to Rouxing. But maybe I will try to practice a bit and see what happens. So maybe we can race each other on Roux hehe. Give it a try? Why not...

Ok, first Ao12 with Roux today: 1:04.70. Your turn.
(1:23.99), 1:04.65, 1:04.31, 47.58, 57.34, 58.71, 1:06.76, 1:14.05, 1:19.65, 1:04.57, (40.16), 1:09.42

Edit: PB Ao12 with Roux: 57.63
58.42, 55.26, (1:12.70), 1:09.65, 51.87, 52.26, (39.28), 1:06.78, 1:05.85, 1:04.17, 44.87, 47.19


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## MarcelP (Dec 3, 2012)

sneaklyfox said:


> Edit: PB Ao12 with Roux: 57.63



LOL.. That was fast.. I hope to achieve that in a week or so.. I will try to keep up with you.  I will do an Ao12 later to see where I stand now.


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## sneaklyfox (Dec 3, 2012)

MarcelP said:


> LOL.. That was fast.. I hope to achieve that in a week or so.. I will try to keep up with you.  I will do an Ao12 later to see where I stand now.



How about after we graduate the sub-30 thread we both re-enter with Roux? Or were you planning to do OH next? Me, I didn't really start doing OH until I graduated from sub-20. But then it went fast.


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## MarcelP (Dec 3, 2012)

Ah a new PB aswell.. 

Best average of 12: 1:11.78
1-12 - 1:05.14 1:35.63 56.97 1:31.69 1:23.76 (1:46.62) 1:19.49 57.28 1:17.16 59.45 51.20 (42.12)


Yes, I think that is a good thing to do. I have promised guusr to start on learning full oll so we can compete at work in lunch time. He averages sub 20 so there is still a lot of work to do  I will do boring olls now for a month or so, but I will do every day a few Roux solves just to be in shape when I graduate race to sub 30.


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## Schmidt (Dec 3, 2012)

Spoiler: Roux times



Generated By csTimer(www.cstimer.net) on 2012-12-3
solves/total: 12/12

single
best: 36.96
worst: 1:13.91

mean of 3
current: 46.48 (σ = 6.43)
best: 45.16 (σ = 5.08)

avg of 5
current: 49.55 (σ = 1.77)
best: 45.16 (σ = 5.08)

avg of 12
current: 49.34 (σ = 8.17)
best: 49.34 (σ = 8.17)

Average: 49.34 (σ = 8.17)
Mean: 50.35

Time List:
1. 42.83 B2 U2 L' F2 R B2 U2 L D2 L' B2 D L F L' D2 B' D B' R D 
2. 1:06.44 R2 D' R2 D' B2 D R2 B2 D' L2 D2 F D F2 L2 F' L' B' U R2 F2 
3. 36.96 D2 R2 F U2 F' U2 L2 F D2 R2 F2 D B D' R F' U' F D L2 U2 
4. 54.67 U' R2 F2 R2 F2 U F2 D2 R2 U F2 L U2 L2 R' B U L2 B2 L F 
5. 54.52 R L' F2 B R2 U' L B2 R' L2 U B2 U D2 F2 U' D2 R2 
6. 47.71 F L F' B U2 D' L2 D' B2 U2 L B2 R D2 R2 B2 U2 F2 R' 
7. 39.31 B U2 R2 B2 D2 L2 F' L2 R2 U2 R2 U' L D2 F' R' B2 D B R2 F' 
8. 48.48 D B2 U' L2 U' L2 F2 D B2 R U' L2 F' L D B' U' R2 B' D2 
9. 1:13.91 L B2 L D2 L2 F2 D2 U2 R U2 R D B' R D L' R B D2 L' (this was a great solve until I realised I had blue center where red was supposed to be :fp
10. 39.26 U2 B2 D2 R' U2 R2 D2 L' F2 L2 R' U' F' R' U L' B' F' R B 
11. 48.58 F U2 B2 U2 L2 R2 F' U2 F R2 F' R' F R' B' D' L U L F2 U2 
12. 51.59 L U' D2 L U R' B U' R U2 R2 L2 F' R2 F B U2 D2 R2


I will leave you alone untill you are about to catch up.


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## sneaklyfox (Dec 3, 2012)

Ok. Newest PB Ao12 with Roux: 48.35
49.25, 50.47, 46.67, (56.02), *55.26, 41.94, 45.06, 42.15, (39.40)*, 52.36, 50.84, 49.46

(Also Ao5 43.05 in there.)


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## MarcelP (Dec 4, 2012)

I made a video just to be sure if I do it okay:

So besides block building (because I have zero skills on that part so far) are these correct Roux solves?

Scramble 1: U L2 B2 R2 B2 D' B2 D2 B2 U L2 F' L B2 U R' L2 D2 F2 R2 F'
Scramble 2: B2 D' R2 U2 L2 U' F2 D U2 B2 U2 B' L U2 F2 R' D F R2 D2 B2

[video=youtube_share;V2GIORKQrB0]http://youtu.be/V2GIORKQrB0[/video]


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## MarcelP (Dec 4, 2012)

Newest PB with *Roux*:

average of 12: *58.33*
1-12 - 55.90 (38.79) 1:02.49 1:17.49 (1:36.66) 56.69 53.17 52.86 1:01.91 52.92 52.81 57.02

I don't think it will be my main speed method, but I really do think Roux is fun. Now further with my boring OLL practice..


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## BenVdd (Dec 4, 2012)

man i'm still so jealous of your singles PB


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## MarcelP (Dec 4, 2012)

Nah, you will brake it soon enough  let me enjoy that advantage for a little while


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## MarcelP (Dec 5, 2012)

Pffffff.. few days training OLL's and now I know 17 out of 57. Man that is though...This is really boring stuff.. and..now I start to mix up OLL's (and mess up solves) so my times will go upwards before they improve again I guess.


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## Schmidt (Dec 5, 2012)

I printed the OLL algs from kungfoomanchu. Then I learned the eazy ones, then some groups ( "L" shapes, "P" shapes) and the hard ones last (Line with 2 lines on the sides and Dot with 2 lines on the sides) When I had solved the cases I had learned in a real solve "x" amount of times, I made a check-mark on the alg sheet indicating that it was stored in memory.

I guess you will have many moments of "Is this the case I know or was it that other one" and "Hmm, were those two pieces supposed to be here or in the back"


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## MarcelP (Dec 6, 2012)

Schmidt said:


> I guess you will have many moments of "Is this the case I know or was it that other one" and "Hmm, were those two pieces supposed to be here or in the back"



Yes, that is the biggest problem. For example, the lightning bolt cases. There are 4 of them.. Oh man... how do you distinct them when going at full speed solves. LOL. I think I will stick with the ones that I have learned in the last few days (10 algs) and do another batch in a few weeks.


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## Kattenvriendin (Dec 6, 2012)

Before going full speed solves.. slowwwww down.

Right now I have learned a new PLL and I am slooowwwing down so I can recognize it. You can in fact see the PLL case coming when you are doing the last F2L pair, I bet it is the same for OLL


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## MarcelP (Dec 6, 2012)

PLL from the last F2L pair? No, you must be mistaken. That would mean that you know the complete solution of the LL after finishing the last pair. I believe that is one out of 1400 algs. LOL You can preserve correct oriented edges or corners with the last pair to get an easy OLL case. I do not master that technique though..


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## cubingawsumness (Dec 6, 2012)

MarcelP said:


> You can preserve correct oriented edges or corners with the last pair to get an easy OLL case. I do not master that technique though..



And this is why I am thinking about switching to ZZ. 57 OLLs is just a little much for me. And so far, ZZ is fun!

I've been mostly following this thread, (although I haven't posted much) and your progress is awesome! One day, you'll be one of the "fast people".
Good luck and have fun cubing.


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## moralsh (Dec 6, 2012)

cubingawsumness said:


> And this is why I am thinking about switching to ZZ. 57 OLLs is just a little much for me. And so far, ZZ is fun!
> 
> I've been mostly following this thread, (although I haven't posted much) and your progress is awesome! One day, you'll be one of the "fast people".
> Good luck and have fun cubing.



Not saying that ZZ is not fun, it sure is, but the "57 OLLs are too many" is a mith, 17 of them are mirrors of another one so that leaves it in 40 and if you want to narrow it a bit more, there are some inverses also.

(I don't know full OLL, BTW )


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## MarcelP (Dec 6, 2012)

moralsh said:


> but the "57 OLLs are too many" is a mith, 17 of them are mirrors of another one so that leaves it in 40 and if you want to narrow it a bit more, there are some inverses also.
> 
> (I don't know full OLL, BTW )



Myth or not. For me mirror and inverse are equally hard to learn as single cases.  I have big problems mixing them up..


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## Schmidt (Dec 6, 2012)

I'm lazy! I do all mirrored cases with my left hand. Also PLL ( R, J, A...) I can do T and Y with my left hand ( good for Megaminx)


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## sneaklyfox (Dec 6, 2012)

MarcelP said:


> Myth or not. For me mirror and inverse are equally hard to learn as single cases.  I have big problems mixing them up..



I find that it's easy to remember OLLs and mirror cases by looking at the "direction" of the shapes. It's hard for me to explain. Take this one for example:

R' F R U R' U' F' U R

(Do the algorithm backwards to see which OLL I mean.) Its mirror would be L F' L' U' L U F U' L'. You remember which is which because the first move goes along the direction of the shape. It is like that for a lot of the OLLs that I use.


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## ThomasJE (Dec 7, 2012)

cubingawsumness said:


> And this is why I am thinking about switching to ZZ. 57 OLLs is just a little much for me. And so far, ZZ is fun!



That's one of the reasons I switched as well. Also, ZZF2L is flexible. You can do it CFOP style (like I do), or true blockbuilding (like I want to do ). ZZLL is also flexible. There's no set way to do ZZ, and that's one of the best things about it.


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## MarcelP (Dec 7, 2012)

sneaklyfox said:


> I find that it's easy to remember OLLs and mirror cases by looking at the "direction" of the shapes.



Yes, I understand. That's the way I remember most of them. Last few days I have not managed to learn one new OLL. Believe me I have tried... the more difficult cases are though to remember.



ThomasJE said:


> That's one of the reasons I switched as well. Also, ZZF2L is flexible. You can do it CFOP style (like I do), or true blockbuilding (like I want to do ). ZZLL is also flexible. There's no set way to do ZZ, and that's one of the best things about it.


I like both ZZ and Roux. But since there are more fast Roux-ers I will give Rouz a first serious try.


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## MeshuggahX (Dec 7, 2012)

If I were you I wouldn't rush with the OLL's. Take them slow instead. I don't think full OLL will do that much of a difference. I know about 30 of the algs, but I don't feel that I would have a big advantage in my times by knowing the rest of them.


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## MarcelP (Dec 7, 2012)

Thanks, I will take that advise. If i feel like I am loosing my speed since I am practicing olls only.


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## lcsbiffi (Dec 8, 2012)

MarcelP said:


> Thanks, I will take that advise. If i feel like I am loosing my speed since I am practicing olls only.



I started to feel the same after I started learning the ret of the PLL's


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## PeelingStickers (Dec 9, 2012)

I'm just beginning OLL's now, I'm starting on dots though because it's those which lose most of my speed if I get a good case, no matter how good my F2L is I will always sup-20 with a dot case because I'm forced to do an F(RUR'U) to orient two edges then repeat another f(RUR'U') to get back to a cross, then further on do another algorithm just to solve the entire OLL...


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## MarcelP (Dec 9, 2012)

Yep, I started with the dot cases too.. I know these pretty well now


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## MarcelP (Dec 10, 2012)

I have not been practicing 2 X 2 at all lately and I did a few Ao12's today. Still I crushed my PB with a sub 11!

There are a few 2+ finishes in there... but I don't care since it was no competition anayways.. LOL

(6.71) 10.87 10.18 6.77 10.00 12.90 (13.60) 12.91 13.58 12.01 11.90 10.14

U' R2 U' R F R2 U' F R'
U2 F R' U2 F U R2 F2 R' U'
R F U R' F2 U F' U2 R2
U F U' R2 F U2 R' U'
F2 R F' U F' U' R' F2
F2 U F' R F2 U R' F U
F' R' U F' R2 U R' U' F2
F U R' U F2 R2 F' R2 U'
U F' R' F2 U F' U F R U2
U F' U R2 F2 U' R
R F R' F2 U R2 U2 F R' U'
R U' R2 U' R F' R' U R2 
[video=youtube_share;gxRs-0SBYqE]http://youtu.be/gxRs-0SBYqE[/video]


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## lcsbiffi (Dec 11, 2012)

MarcelP said:


> I have not been practicing 2 X 2 at all lately and I did a few Ao12's today. Still I crushed my PB with a sub 11!
> 
> There are a few 2+ finishes in there... but I don't care since it was no competition anayways.. LOL
> 
> ...



Nice solves  I bought a wittwo (and a 4x4 SS and a Stickerless GuHong v2) at lightake but they're taking a looooooong time do deliver it. I want to get into 2x2's again.


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## MarcelP (Dec 11, 2012)

lcsbiffi said:


> at lightake but they're taking a looooooong time do deliver it.



I know... I have been ordering a lot from China and some packages have taken up to 7 weeks to get here  Last week I ordered 6 stickerless Zhanchi's (together with Kattenvriendin) to make 6 Forcecubes and they arrived in 6 days! So it is a matter of luck I guess..


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## Kattenvriendin (Dec 11, 2012)

If people want to know where from.. that was dealextreme. It says 5.5cm on the site, but it IS 5.7cm really


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## MarcelP (Dec 11, 2012)

How are your Forcecubes? Mine are actually too fast now. I have broken them in (500 solves each or so) and they are so smooth and fast that I loose control. I can not get a decent solve under 30 seconds anymore. And when I get my old Zhanchis or Type C I immediatly get sub 30 solves. I think I will over lube them and thighten the screws to get them slower..


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## Kattenvriendin (Dec 11, 2012)

Wait with the lube and start with the tensions first. They are lubed proper after all.

Tighten them about half a rotation first, and then continue with quarters and finally eights to find the ideal setting  Trust me, it'll get there.


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## lcsbiffi (Dec 11, 2012)

MarcelP said:


> I know... I have been ordering a lot from China and some packages have taken up to 7 weeks to get here  Last week I ordered 6 stickerless Zhanchi's (together with Kattenvriendin) to make 6 Forcecubes and they arrived in 6 days! So it is a matter of luck I guess..



Yeah, I made 2 different orders, one with only the 4x4 SS and the other with the wittwo and guhong.
The first order was made in october 30th and it's still not here --' now I'm not sure which one I should hate, the chinese mail servie or brazil's mail service


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## Kattenvriendin (Dec 11, 2012)

Did you pay with paypal?

There is coverage for something like that when you used paypal. Just yesterday I had to open a case for two cubes. Not because I was tired of waiting, but to make sure I wouldn't lose my coverage which is only 45 days after the transfer date.

You can see if it is covered still when you go inside paypal.com and find the transaction. It says something like "do you have any problems" or something. I'd advise you to do that


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## Echo Cubing (Dec 12, 2012)

wo, this video seems great! the magic cube is speedy and the man plays it so well.and just finish it 40 seconds ! It seems that I need more practice and then I can play the magic cube as well as that man.come on !


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## Alcuber (Dec 12, 2012)

lcsbiffi said:


> Yeah, I made 2 different orders, one with only the 4x4 SS and the other with the wittwo and guhong.
> The first order was made in october 30th and it's still not here --' now I'm not sure which one I should hate, the chinese mail servie or brazil's mail service



With Lighttake, you never know what to expect xD, I've had an order that arrived in 8 days, and one that took over 3 months....


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## Gordon (Dec 12, 2012)

The only problem I had with lightake was that they sent me a wrong cube... but the orders arrive always within 2 to 3 weeks.
The longest order was from dealmaz.com. I've got the cubes 8 weeks after ordering them.

To make some of these 'Forcecubes' is one of my plans for next year. This year I've spent already to much on cubes  But I will probably do them out of Guhong V2's.

Is it realy a such difference?


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## MarcelP (Dec 12, 2012)

Yes, if you have a colorcube (I mean a stickerless cube) and you make one color it is still the same (fast) plastic. Mine are incredible fast.. I have to slow them down  It is a big difference compared to my normal black and white Zhanchi and Guhongs.


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## Gordon (Dec 12, 2012)

I have only a colored Guhong V2, but I think that my black Guhong V2 is faster than the colored. But maybe it's because I use it more often. I Think I will give it a try after I am sub 35. I will take this as motivation to go faster 

6 x ZhanChi => 85$... well, I sometimes spend money for more stupid things.


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## MarcelP (Dec 12, 2012)

I believe at Dealextreme.com you can buy 6 Zhanchi's for about 50$. That is because of bulk order (from 6 cubes and more).  So Kattenvriendin and I where only 26$ each lighter for three awesome fast cubes


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## Gordon (Dec 12, 2012)

On lightake it is 72 and something. 12.02 per cube if I order 6 of them.


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## MarcelP (Dec 12, 2012)

On Dealextreme I think you need a couponcode to get the discount on 6 cubes. Maybe Kattenvriendin knows?

EDIT: Oh and... stickerless Zhanchi's are faster than Stickerless Guhong V2. It's a different type of plastic. If I look at the Stickerless Zhanchi it is more shiny. The Guhong is more of a kind of.. I don't know the English word.. in Dutch 'dof'.


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## lcsbiffi (Dec 12, 2012)

Kattenvriendin said:


> Did you pay with paypal?
> 
> There is coverage for something like that when you used paypal. Just yesterday I had to open a case for two cubes. Not because I was tired of waiting, but to make sure I wouldn't lose my coverage which is only 45 days after the transfer date.
> 
> You can see if it is covered still when you go inside paypal.com and find the transaction. It says something like "do you have any problems" or something. I'd advise you to do that



Yeah, the first order is already out of coverage, but I'm going to do that with my second order. Thanks for the tip


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## Kattenvriendin (Dec 12, 2012)

It is the bulk rate button after you look in the cart, on dealextreme 

http://dx.com/p/dayan-5-zhanchi-3x3x3-brain-teaser-magic-iq-cube-94722

Those.. they are 57m
put 6 in the cart
then you will be taken to the cart.

There is a button there "enable bulkrate prices" or enter BULKRATE in the coupon field, I think that works too


Now the cube is $10.93 a pop.
$1.70 is added for regisered mail
Total being $67.30


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## Gordon (Dec 14, 2012)

Thanks for the hint. I've just ordered six of them... damn me, I cannot hold myself when buying cubes 

Did you put regular colored stickers on the cubes? Or some special light or bright colors?


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## Kattenvriendin (Dec 14, 2012)

I just put some stickers on that I had laying around still. I order most my cubes as DIY and good thing of that is that most of the time you get TWO stickersets


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## MarcelP (Dec 14, 2012)

Gordon said:


> Or some special light or bright colors?



Since I use halfbright sets from Cubesmith on my cubes have I improved dramatically. On white cubes I use half bright set and on black cubes I use half bright with bright blue (so that there is a bigger contrast between the cube and the sicker). It's magical I tell you. When I do a solve on a regular cube now I do not get any sub 30 (most around 36 - 38 seconds).


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## Gordon (Dec 14, 2012)

For my current main cube (black) I have a favorite color scheme (white - flourescent yellow / light blue - flourescent green / bright orange - flourescent pink), but I wonder how it will look on a non-black cube.
For example I think that flourescent yellow looks ugly on a yellow cube.

But because I also use other cubes regulary, different collors are not a big problem. At the moment my times are always in the same range (except for the 48er avg of 12 yesterday), even with other colors.


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## MarcelP (Dec 14, 2012)

I did a Ao100 today. Man the first 50 where horrible.. Above 32 seconds I believe.. 

Then 51 to 58 where like this and things picked up again:

51. 26.45 R2 L2 D2 U B2 D' L2 U B2 R2 B2 R F2 R' B' D2 B2 R B' U' F' U'
52. 27.80 L2 D2 F2 R2 L2 U R2 U R2 U2 B2 R F' D2 B R2 D B2 R' D R2 U2
53. 34.65 B2 U F2 D2 R2 F2 D2 R2 B2 D U2 R' F' R2 F2 L U2 B D B F' U2
54. 31.28 R2 B2 D' F2 R2 D B2 F2 R2 U2 R' U2 F' D2 L D F' R' F D2
55. 24.95 U2 R2 B2 R2 L2 U R2 L2 F2 R2 D L' F' D' R' L F2 R' U R2 L'
56. 31.26 L2 B2 D B2 D2 F2 D2 L2 U' R2 U F' L2 U' L D' R' U2 R L' U
57. 26.46 U2 B2 D' U2 F2 L2 F2 R2 D' B2 U2 R L F' D R' D2 B U L U2
58. 24.47 D2 B2 L2 U2 B2 R2 D' U2 B2 U B2 L R2 U2 F' R2 D' L F' L' U2 B

If it had not been for those sub 25 solves or I would have quit to complete a full 100 

So no PB's broken but since i have not been practicing speed at all I am quite happy.


----------



## lcsbiffi (Dec 14, 2012)

MarcelP said:


> I did a Ao100 today. Man the first 50 where horrible.. Above 32 seconds I believe..
> 
> Then 51 to 58 where like this and things picked up again:
> 
> ...



Nice times. Did you warm up beforehand or just started cold ?


----------



## MarcelP (Dec 14, 2012)

lcsbiffi said:


> Nice times. Did you warm up beforehand or just started cold ?



I always delete the first 5 solves or so.. So yeah, no cold start this one..


----------



## lcsbiffi (Dec 14, 2012)

MarcelP said:


> I always delete the first 5 solves or so.. So yeah, no cold start this one..



Oh, I see, but I guess the first and last solves are usually the most slow.


----------



## MarcelP (Dec 15, 2012)

Today I only have like 15 minutes to practice. Did about 20 solves.. bad average around 33.. But I had a sub 20 solve that makes my whole week ok! 

Scramble: D L2 U' F2 R2 U' B2 L2 U B2 R' F D2 U F' D R' L2 U F

Anyone care to reconstruct?

[video=youtube_share;Buaw_HIHQqY]http://youtu.be/Buaw_HIHQqY[/video]


----------



## lcsbiffi (Dec 15, 2012)

MarcelP said:


> Today I only have like 15 minutes to practice. Did about 20 solves.. bad average around 33.. But I had a sub 20 solve that makes my whole week ok!
> 
> Scramble: D L2 U' F2 R2 U' B2 L2 U B2 R' F D2 U F' D R' L2 U F
> 
> ...



Nice solve, on my last ao100 the best time I got was a 19.71  lol btw, I managed to get the times from all my solves from that ao100 and posted them in my topic if you want to check them out


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## MarcelP (Dec 15, 2012)

Yeah baby yeah:


Whooohoooo.. Watch out Ben, Watch out Lucas.. here I come... A sub 29 Ao50! and a sub 28 Ao12


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## sneaklyfox (Dec 15, 2012)

Nice, Marcel!


----------



## MarcelP (Dec 15, 2012)

Thanks! Something like this really makes my day.


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## lcsbiffi (Dec 15, 2012)

Geez, guess I've got to practice more haha I have to keep my position as number 1 of the noob rank B) lol


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## piece popper (Dec 16, 2012)

Well, it looks like you've acheived your goal, according to your signature.


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## BenVdd (Dec 16, 2012)

damn you are getting so close. I have to do a long session soon!


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## Kattenvriendin (Dec 16, 2012)

Wow well done!! Is this with the white stickerless?


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## MarcelP (Dec 16, 2012)

Yep the video is with white stickerless. The Ao50 is the blue stickerless. Currently my favorite cube.


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## Kattenvriendin (Dec 16, 2012)

Hahaha I KNEW it!


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## MarcelP (Dec 16, 2012)

Yeah, you told me from the start the blue one is the fastest  You where right..


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## guusrs (Dec 16, 2012)

Hi Marcel,
Any progress on your olls?


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## MarcelP (Dec 16, 2012)

guusrs said:


> Hi Marcel,
> Any progress on your olls?



Yep, check here:

http://www.speedsolving.com/forum/showthread.php?39661-OLL-trainer&p=807746#post807746

I made a train program to speed up progress







So far I know about 20 OLL's and it shows in the substep competition


----------



## guusrs (Dec 16, 2012)

well done
nice to see you take this inevitable step seriously


----------



## MarcelP (Dec 16, 2012)

Yes, ever since I beat you in a one on one competition (LOL!!) I have set my mind on the OLL's..


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## Kattenvriendin (Dec 16, 2012)

Wooow.. well done indeed on the program!:tu


----------



## BenVdd (Dec 16, 2012)

i might practice OLL's now.. thanks!


----------



## MarcelP (Dec 16, 2012)

New PB!

This one caught me by suprise. I did not handle the cross very well, but got one pair during cross in slot and a PLL skip.. Wow....

Scramble: R2 L2 F2 U' F2 D L2 F2 U F2 D2 R B' U2 F L' B D' B2 U F' U2

[video=youtube_share;VjWZMUVPcrM]http://youtu.be/VjWZMUVPcrM[/video]


----------



## sneaklyfox (Dec 16, 2012)

Wow. And you didn't even react (outwardly anyway). I would have been like, "YESSSS!!!!"


----------



## MarcelP (Dec 16, 2012)

LOL, kids just put to bed so.... no noise please.... You should have seen my expression on my face... it was like if I won the lottery


----------



## lcsbiffi (Dec 16, 2012)

****, you beat my PB  gotta work harder haha


----------



## ajayd (Dec 16, 2012)

You're progressing quickly. Might want to work on consistency. My pb is 3 seconds slower, but my pb average is 5 seconds faster.


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## sneaklyfox (Dec 17, 2012)

I predict that Marcel will be faster than me.


----------



## MarcelP (Dec 17, 2012)

ajayd said:


> You're progressing quickly. Might want to work on consistency. My pb is 3 seconds slower, but my pb average is 5 seconds faster.



It's just a freak accident. I only had to slot 3 pairs and a one step OLL and a PLL skip. If it would have been a full solve I would add 2 seconds for extra pair and 3 - 4 seconds for PLL (recognition and execution) and it would not even have been a sub 20 solve.



lcsbiffi said:


> ****, you beat my PB  gotta work harder haha



Yep, Lucas.. you must set a 13.something at least 



sneaklyfox said:


> I predict that Marcel will be faster than me.



No, absolutely not.. My guess is that I will get stuck between 20 - 25 averages.. No problem, that is fast enough for me


----------



## sneaklyfox (Dec 18, 2012)

MarcelP said:


> No, absolutely not.. My guess is that I will get stuck between 20 - 25 averages.. No problem, that is fast enough for me



Uh huh... I'll wait for you to prove yourself wrong.


----------



## moralsh (Dec 18, 2012)

Yeah, keep that text for later use , it usually works with Marcel


----------



## MarcelP (Dec 18, 2012)

No, the person who got me up on this forum (and in this hobby) is guurs. As you can see by his profile is he an anciant member (was on the worlchampionship in 1982). His best average in a WCA comp was set this year at 17 seconds. I highly doubt that I ever will get even close to that. Trust me, I will be fine with averages between 20 - 25.  Btw Raoul, I saw your entry for the sub30- competition with a 24, 27 and a 29 in there... Nice....


----------



## MarcelP (Dec 21, 2012)

Yeah beaby yeah!!






Chrushed my Ao 100, Ao12, Ao5 and Ao3... What more can I do today to make this day better


----------



## BenVdd (Dec 21, 2012)

nice marcel!


----------



## Gordon (Dec 21, 2012)

So no End of World for you today.





Nice times. I'm looking forward to get such times to. Maybe wen some strange guys predict the next end of the world.


----------



## MarcelP (Dec 21, 2012)

Thanks guys. 

Yes Gordon.. no end of the world.. what a big disappointment huh?


----------



## lcsbiffi (Dec 21, 2012)

Nice average of 100  you're getting close to me agaaain lol


----------



## sneaklyfox (Dec 21, 2012)

MarcelP said:


> Yeah beaby yeah!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Nice going, Marcel! What more to do is also get a PB single...


----------



## cowabunga (Dec 21, 2012)

Gordon said:


> Maybe wen some strange guys predict the next end of the world.



Mayans didn't predict the end of the world. Just the end of their calendar and the start of a new era.


----------



## MarcelP (Dec 21, 2012)

sneaklyfox said:


> Nice going, Marcel! What more to do is also get a PB single...



That's not going to happen this year


----------



## MarcelP (Dec 21, 2012)

lcsbiffi said:


> Nice average of 100  you're getting close to me agaaain lol



Yes, I am on a role again. I suspect my times will drop some more in the close future. Lookahead is kicking in...


----------



## sneaklyfox (Dec 21, 2012)

MarcelP said:


> That's not going to happen this year



You're always so pessimistic...


----------



## MarcelP (Dec 21, 2012)

LOL, I am supersticious... If I tell you I think I will brake my single Pb soon it will never happen...


----------



## sneaklyfox (Dec 21, 2012)

LOL... that's ok. I'm pessimistic about my own times.


----------



## MarcelP (Dec 23, 2012)

Just when I think I can not get faster I brake my Ao5 and Ao3 and almost my Ao12..  Too bad I had a few 40+ in there...


----------



## lcsbiffi (Dec 23, 2012)

now you got me depressed lol


----------



## BenVdd (Dec 23, 2012)

very nice ao3 and ao5! wow!


----------



## MarcelP (Dec 23, 2012)

lcsbiffi said:


> now you got me depressed lol



No worries Lucas, you are still much faster..



BenVdd said:


> very nice ao3 and ao5! wow!



Thanks!

I have changed something in my F2L technique. Slotting like F' U' F I try to do more Y' R' U' R. Big difference in when you slot on the B face instead of the F face is that when there is an empty slot left it will be in front of you face instead of on the back.


----------



## MarcelP (Dec 27, 2012)

Thomas did a reconstruction of my PB for me. I think I never had a 44 move solve before 



ThomasJE said:


> *MarcelP - 14.01 Single*
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Video
> ...


----------



## lcsbiffi (Dec 27, 2012)

Nice. I did it at home and the f2l pairs just popped in front of you :O that's nice.


----------



## sneaklyfox (Dec 27, 2012)

Nice. Were you trying to do the XCross or was it a lucky accident?


----------



## MarcelP (Dec 27, 2012)

lcsbiffi said:


> Nice. I did it at home and the f2l pairs just popped in front of you :O that's nice.


Yes, cool solve huh? I wish they where all like this 


sneaklyfox said:


> Nice. Were you trying to do the XCross or was it a lucky accident?


I could not do an Xcross if my life depended on it. In fact all my solves are lucky accidents.. LOL


----------



## ajayd (Dec 27, 2012)

For your OLL, I think that the traditional f (R U R' U') f' U F (R U R' U') F' would have suited you better. But still, that scramble is one in a million. Nice job.


----------



## MarcelP (Dec 27, 2012)

Ohhh had a nice one. Full step solve including two step OLL 17.46 seconds:

These freak accidents seem to occur more often  I have been using my Dayen Linyun much lately and broke all my PB's with that cube. After using my Linyun all other cubes feel big and akward 


Scramble: D' F2 R2 D2 B2 L2 U' F2 R2 U2 R2 B D F' L' F U2 L' F' U2 R U

Cube: Dayan Linyun

[video=youtube_share;sLNuEOMLiMQ]http://youtu.be/sLNuEOMLiMQ[/video]


----------



## ajayd (Dec 27, 2012)

With that scramble, I had an annoying OLL( the one with all of the edges oriented, and 2 corners, with the other 2 as headlights), and then a G perm.


----------



## BenVdd (Dec 27, 2012)

had a 22.86 with that scramble.


----------



## JonnyWhoopes (Dec 27, 2012)

MarcelP said:


> Ohhh had a nice one. Full step solve including two step OLL 17.46 seconds:
> 
> These freak accidents seem to occur more often  I have been using my Dayen Linyun much lately and broke all my PB's with that cube. After using my Linyun all other cubes feel big and akward
> 
> ...



I really don't want to be "that guy", but that solve is really a 19.46+ solve. Other than that, it was very well executed, and a good example of how turn-speed isn't all that necessary even in CFOP.


----------



## MarcelP (Dec 28, 2012)

JonnyWhoopes said:


> I really don't want to be "that guy", but that solve is really a 19.46+ solve. Other than that, it was very well executed, and a good example of how turn-speed isn't all that necessary even in CFOP.



Yes, I know in competition it was a +2 solve. That's why I showed the cube in the video. But I really don't mind since it was no competition.



antoineccantin said:


> x2 y2
> L' B L L F' R' // cross
> L U' L' U' y L' U L // F2L #1
> R U' U' R' U2 R U' R' // F2L #2
> ...



My first 4+ tps!



BenVdd said:


> had a 22.86 with that scramble.



I tried the same scramble a few more times and all I got where 24 second solves.. LOL


----------



## lcsbiffi (Dec 28, 2012)

I just had 24 second solves with that scramble


----------



## MarcelP (Dec 28, 2012)

lcsbiffi said:


> I just had 24 second solves with that scramble



Not bad right? I love 24 second solves  Today I had 12 solves sub 30.. All in 28 - 29 range.. it felt awesome.. so fast.. And then I was bummed that I did not brake my Ao12 of 26.48.. LOL In order to do that you must have a few 22 - 24 there in there as well.. LOL


----------



## lcsbiffi (Dec 28, 2012)

MarcelP said:


> Not bad right? I love 24 second solves  Today I had 12 solves sub 30.. All in 28 - 29 range.. it felt awesome.. so fast.. And then I was bummed that I did not brake my Ao12 of 26.48.. LOL In order to do that you must have a few 22 - 24 there in there as well.. LOL



Nowadays I get sad when I get a 30 second solve lol and to think that 30 seconds was my goal when I started my thread


----------



## MarcelP (Dec 28, 2012)

Yes, I curse and scream at 30+ solves nowadays.. LOL...


----------



## BenVdd (Dec 28, 2012)

God 30+ solves are the worst. ^^
I don't even like 28+ solves anymore.


----------



## sneaklyfox (Dec 28, 2012)

That is the sad thing... when you start screaming at times you would have thought were awesome a few weeks or months ago.


----------



## MarcelP (Dec 28, 2012)

LOL... not really screaming though.. I am not that angry when my times are bad.. Cubing is much fun for me even with bad times..


----------



## ThomasJE (Dec 28, 2012)

I think we all get a little annoyed when we aren't as fast as we normally are. The amount of times I slammed the table when doing 2x2 yesterday...


----------



## MarcelP (Dec 30, 2012)

I have decided to enter the sub 30 competition with CFOP again. But this time color neutral. The Roux thing is fun but I do not practice Roux and make therefore no progress. I just did 12 solves with Cross on Yellow

Average *36.08*
45.06 40.61 37.29 40.10 32.21 38.19 (45.40) 35.34 30.80 30.31 (29.56) 30.84

I am surprised by these good times. I know Yellow is almost like solving on white but still it is harder. So for the Race to sub 30 I will enter and do cross on all colors but white... Let´s see if I can get any progress in this area. That is at least positive for my normal CFOP solves where Roux has no positive effect on my times 

EDIT: I just did a Ao12 on cross on RED:
* 43.06*
44.64 50.60 50.51 47.24 (51.19) 39.11 (33.90) 40.96 39.80 35.44 48.02 34.31

A lot harder, but this is real fun!


----------



## BenVdd (Dec 30, 2012)

Thats actually a good idea!  I like the F2B from roux but everything past that is boring imo.


----------



## MarcelP (Dec 30, 2012)

Hi Ben, can you do a Ao12 with cross on red ( or any other) to see what your times are?


----------



## jskyler91 (Dec 30, 2012)

MarcelP said:


> I have decided to enter the sub 30 competition with CFOP again. But this time color neutral. The Roux thing is fun but I do not practice Roux and make therefore no progress. I just did 12 solves with Cross on Yellow
> 
> Average *36.08*
> 45.06 40.61 37.29 40.10 32.21 38.19 (45.40) 35.34 30.80 30.31 (29.56) 30.84
> ...



Sounds like a good idea check out my vid on transitioning to CN in my sig if you want some tips.


----------



## MarcelP (Dec 30, 2012)

jskyler91 said:


> Sounds like a good idea check out my vid on transitioning to CN in my sig if you want some tips.



Thanks man. I watched the video. That is very inspirying. I will definatly follow anything you have said and start today!


----------



## sneaklyfox (Dec 30, 2012)

Very cool that you want to switch to colour neutral. I'd be really interested to see you succeed! You need determination and just stick with it. I'm aiming to be dual colour neutral right now W/Y.

In case you're wondering, I just did an Ao12 White and then Ao12 Red. This is how they compare.

White: 17.61
15.71, 15.73, 19.71, (21.44), (15.02), 19.66, 16.11, 16.46, 17.43, 16.89, 20.95, 17.45

Red: 27.70
33.66, 25.40, 25.86, 29.79, 26.81, 23.65, 29.97, (23.56), 25.04, 33.02, 23.79, (35.06)

Even my fastest time with red is 2 seconds slower than my slowest time with white.


----------



## omer (Dec 30, 2012)

There's nothing better than having an easy cross 95% of the time, though it must be hell transitioning from non-color-neutral to color-neutral, good luck.


----------



## MarcelP (Dec 30, 2012)

sneaklyfox said:


> Very cool that you want to switch to colour neutral. I'd be really interested to see you succeed! You need determination and just stick with it. I'm aiming to be dual colour neutral right now W/Y.
> 
> In case you're wondering, I just did an Ao12 White and then Ao12 Red. This is how they compare.
> 
> ...



I am going to follow the tips of *jskyler91*. He says, train 4 days cross on yellow, and then days blue, 5 days green, 5 days orange and 5 days red. Since red and orange are the hardest to get used to you must take these last. I just did a Ao50 cross on yellow. I had 31 something. I have even a few 23 - 25 in there.. So I am going to skip the cross on Yellow days and start with Green right away.. I am really looking forward to be 100% CN. jskyler91 Says in his video that you will have shitty times at first but in the long run it must get better. We will see..



omer said:


> There's nothing better than having an easy cross 95% of the time, though it must be hell transitioning from non-color-neutral to color-neutral, good luck.



Yes, I guess, Right now seeing the crosses on other colors is really the most difficult part for me..


----------



## Schmidt (Dec 30, 2012)

Spoiler: Ao12 red=26.16



Generated By csTimer(www.cstimer.net) on 2012-12-30
solves/total: 12/12

single
best: 21.52
worst: 32.66

mean of 3
current: 23.96 (σ = 2.76)
best: 23.96 (σ = 2.76)

avg of 5
current: 25.40 (σ = 1.82)
 best: 25.40 (σ = 1.82)

avg of 12
current: 26.16 (σ = 2.38)
best: 26.16 (σ = 2.38)

Average: 26.16 (σ = 2.38)
Mean: 26.32

Time List:
1. 26.38 L D2 B R U2 L U2 R2 F2 B L' U R F' R2 F2 L2 B L' U2 D F' U F' U2 
2. 23.31 B' F' U D2 F' R L2 F2 L D' F R U2 B2 D' F' R F L2 U2 D R' B D2 R2 
3. 26.93 U2 L U R' B R D U2 B' F' R' U' B' U R F U R' L2 B' R2 D2 U2 L2 D 
4. 27.46 B' D F' U2 F2 U' B' R2 B U' R2 D F' D2 F' L F2 B L' U2 B R2 B2 U L 
5. 32.66 F B R F2 L2 U L' R B2 D L' F2 D2 U B U L' F B R2 L' F' U F L2 
6. 24.56 U' R' F U B R L U' L2 B2 L D' L F L' U' F' L B U2 L U2 L' D' F 
7. 25.28 U' D2 R2 B' L2 D2 L' F D F2 L F U F' U L' U2 L' F2 R U F L2 D' R 
8. 31.52 D' L' F2 L R2 D2 B' R F' B' U2 B L' D' R2 F R2 B' U B' D' F2 L2 U' B' 
9. 25.83 L B2 F D' U L U B2 L D' R' F2 R' D' R' B' F L' U D' F' L2 R D R2 
10. 26.96 R' L B2 U R2 L D2 U2 R F' R' F' L2 F2 D2 R L U' R F U' B' U L2 B2 
11. 23.40 D2 L' R F D' F L' F2 U L F2 B R' D' R2 U' B2 L B F U L2 R B U 
12. 21.52[Unimpressive LL skip] R' B2 U' L2 R D' R U F B' L U D F B D2 F' R' F R U B2 D B' L


Spoiler: Solution



z y (U=O,F=W)
D L D2 F L F y2 U2 M' U M (cross 12,12)
U L' U' L y' U' R U R' (F2L;1 8,20)
L' U L U2 L' U2 L U' L' U L (F2L;2 11,33)
L U' L' U2 L U' L' (F2L;3 7,40)
y2 U' M U' R' F R U M' (F2L;4 10;50)
Non AUF LL skip


----------



## MarcelP (Dec 30, 2012)

Schmidt said:


> Spoiler: Ao12 red=26.16
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Nice! What is your average on white?


----------



## Schmidt (Dec 30, 2012)

24.53 Ao50 according to my entry in this.


----------



## BenVdd (Dec 30, 2012)

I'll do an ao12 with cross on red later today


----------



## ajayd (Dec 30, 2012)

I've waited my whole cubing life for an LL skip. Seriously?


----------



## BenVdd (Dec 30, 2012)

cross on red :


Spoiler



number of times: 12/12
best time: 29.27
worst time: 1:00.96

current avg5: 37.35 (σ = 1.43)
best avg5: 37.35 (σ = 1.43)

current avg12: 44.99 (σ = 8.17)
best avg12: 44.99 (σ = 8.17)

times (reset):
47.53, 1:00.96, 57.11, 48.85, 29.27, 59.46, 47.65, 35.48, 41.78, 36.00, 39.34, 36.73


----------



## MarcelP (Dec 30, 2012)

Schmidt said:


> 24.53 Ao50 according to my entry in this.



Are you full color neutral?


----------



## Schmidt (Dec 31, 2012)

I'm too lazy to find the best cross, so I just do white.


----------



## MarcelP (Dec 31, 2012)

Schmidt said:


> I'm too lazy to find the best cross, so I just do white.



What a big waist of talent.  If I had 2 seonds between an Ao12 on white and on red I would definatly be color neutral. All the true fast cubers are...


----------



## MarcelP (Dec 31, 2012)

I just did an Ao12 on green. Average 43.57 Man, that is tough.. LOL

EDIT: second Ao12 cross on Green: 39.19
37.21 42.29 35.41 44.61 42.48 42.46 35.76 (47.73) 37.73 36.33 37.60 (33.60)

I guess it is quite easy to get used to..


----------



## Schmidt (Dec 31, 2012)

They all are. The worst thing is if you can see a corner with white on you tend to put it on D.


----------



## MarcelP (Dec 31, 2012)

I just had a nice scramble when I did a few normal cross on White:

U2 B2 F2 U R2 D B2 D' F2 R2 U B L D R B D2 L B2 F' U2 L2

[video=youtube_share;HxuhLo4R4SQ]http://youtu.be/HxuhLo4R4SQ[/video]


----------



## MarcelP (Jan 1, 2013)

I have been doing cross on green for two days now. The times are just barely sub 40. I was expecting faster progress. So I did an Ao100 on white to see if everything is still OK 

I broke my Ao100 PB so I am guessing that the cross on green has positive effect. I will continue the full 5 days cross on green to if it gets faster. Then I will decide to stop or continue color neutral training.


----------



## Username (Jan 1, 2013)

MarcelP said:


> I have been doing cross on green for two days now. The times are just barely sub 40. I was expecting faster progress. So I did an Ao100 on white to see if everything is still OK
> 
> I broke my Ao100 PB so I am guessing that the cross on green has positive effect. I will continue the full 5 days cross on green to if it gets faster. Then I will decide to stop or continue color neutral training.



I also recently switched to color neutral, and i am about the same speed as you are. I'd say go for it, it gives you an easier cross most of the time. My method of turning color neutral was to just start solving the easiest cross right away.


----------



## MarcelP (Jan 1, 2013)

Username said:


> I also recently switched to color neutral, and i am about the same speed as you are. I'd say go for it, it gives you an easier cross most of the time. My method of turning color neutral was to just start solving the easiest cross right away.



That's interesting. How long have you been practicing CN? And are your times getting closer to you white cross?


----------



## ThomasJE (Jan 1, 2013)

MarcelP said:


> I have been doing cross on green for two days now. The times are just barely sub 40. I was expecting faster progress. So I did an Ao100 on white to see if everything is still OK
> 
> I broke my Ao100 PB so I am guessing that the cross on green has positive effect. I will continue the full 5 days cross on green to if it gets faster. Then I will decide to stop or continue color neutral training.



Are you opposite colour neutral (white and yellow)? I did think of doing that before I switched to ZZ, in fact I may still do that with ZZ.


----------



## MarcelP (Jan 1, 2013)

ThomasJE said:


> Are you opposite colour neutral (white and yellow)? I did think of doing that before I switched to ZZ, in fact I may still do that with ZZ.



Yes, I did an Ao50 on yellow before I started on green. I had 31 something. So I guess I am almost opposite color neutral.


----------



## Username (Jan 1, 2013)

MarcelP said:


> That's interesting. How long have you been practicing CN? And are your times getting closer to you white cross?



My times dropped about 5-10 seconds. Yellow was easy, green and blue and red wasn't too hard either. Orange was harder than i expected. Now I am averaging about 26 seconds with all colors. Orange feels like my weakness though.

I have to say I feel most confident about white and yellow.


----------



## MarcelP (Jan 1, 2013)

Username said:


> My times dropped about 5-10 seconds. Yellow was easy, green and blue and red wasn't too hard either. Orange was harder than i expected. Now I am averaging about 26 seconds with all colors. Orange feels like my weakness though.
> 
> I have to say I feel most confident about white and yellow.


That is awesome. If I only drop 0 seconds and could get my current times on other colours I would be very happy.


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## Username (Jan 1, 2013)

MarcelP said:


> That is awesome. If I only drop 0 seconds and could get my current times on other colours I would be very happy.



Try a couple of solves doing the best cross. It doesn't work for everybody, but it surely worked for me. It takes a while to get used to the colors in F2L. For me it helped that i searched for a corner piece, and then i repeated the two colors of the matching edge in my head until they were matched up.


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## omer (Jan 1, 2013)

Username said:


> My times dropped about 5-10 seconds. Yellow was easy, green and blue and red wasn't too hard either. Orange was harder than i expected. Now I am averaging about 26 seconds with all colors. Orange feels like my weakness though.
> 
> I have to say I feel most confident about white and yellow.



Since I was always color neutral this is something I don't really get - how is solving on orange any different than any other color? why do colors have so much importance when you solve?


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## Username (Jan 1, 2013)

omer said:


> Since I was always color neutral this is something I don't really get - how is solving on orange any different than any other color? why do colors have so much importance when you solve?



I don't really understand either. It's just something in my brain :/


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## uvafan (Jan 1, 2013)

ThomasJE said:


> Are you opposite colour neutral (white and yellow)? I did think of doing that before I switched to ZZ, in fact I may still do that with ZZ.



I don't think it's worth it to be any type of cn with zz, a big advantage of zz is that you get extremely familiar with your color scheme and once you see a piece you automatically know where it goes.


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## omer (Jan 1, 2013)

uvafan said:


> I don't think it's worth it to be any type of cn with zz, a big advantage of zz is that you get extremely familiar with your color scheme and once you see a piece you automatically know where it goes.


I agree, and it's not like you can choose which color is best to use during inspection time, since inspection time is spent on planning the EO line.


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## Kattenvriendin (Jan 1, 2013)

Ever seen Feliks solve?

He is not solving on white all the time


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## MarcelP (Jan 1, 2013)

omer said:


> Since I was always color neutral this is something I don't really get - how is solving on orange any different than any other color? why do colors have so much importance when you solve?



I do understand completely.. When I solve on white I know to ignore yellow during F2l. That means, any edge that has no yellow is part of a pair. So you do not have to look for white corners alone. during look ahead I do not specificly look for corner first. When solving on a different cross color, I have to start with a corner from that cross color and that look at the corner which other two colors are there, then look for that freaking egde that comes aloing in that pair. Takes litterally seconds.. LOL.. I did improve again already.. had a Ao12 of 36 seconds on green.. If I get a sub 30 Ao12 in 5 days, I will swear by color neutral. If not I will stick to yellow and white crosses.


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## Username (Jan 1, 2013)

Kattenvriendin said:


> Ever seen Feliks solve?
> 
> He is not solving on white all the time



He is not using ZZ... It's easier to be color neutral using CFOP than ZZ


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## omer (Jan 1, 2013)

MarcelP said:


> I do understand completely.. When I solve on white I know to ignore yellow during F2l. That means, any edge that has no yellow is part of a pair. So you do not have to look for white corners alone. during look ahead I do not specificly look for corner first. When solving on a different cross color, I have to start with a corner from that cross color and that look at the corner which other two colors are there, then look for that freaking egde that comes aloing in that pair. Takes litterally seconds.. LOL.. I did improve again already.. had a Ao12 of 36 seconds on green.. If I get a sub 30 in 5 days, I will swear by color neutral. If not I will stick to yellow and white crosses.


I never thought about it this way, the part with the edges. I always look for a corner and then look for its edge - maybe this is why I'm really bad at look-ahead. I will try that edge logic you talked about - every edge without the opposite color of the solving color is a pair edge.


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## MarcelP (Jan 1, 2013)

MarcelP said:


> If I get a sub 30 Ao12 in 5 days, I will swear by color neutral. If not I will stick to yellow and white crosses.



Just had my first sub 30 solve on green:

Best average of 12: 35.30
37.49 38.82 35.69 30.96 31.45 37.16 33.69 37.05 38.23 32.42 (29.57) (39.06)

So I am getting more and more less sceptic. This actually might work..


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## ThomasJE (Jan 1, 2013)

uvafan said:


> I don't think it's worth it to be any type of cn with zz, a big advantage of zz is that you get extremely familiar with your color scheme and once you see a piece you automatically know where it goes.



But you could say this with any method that you use a fixed colour scheme with.



omer said:


> I agree, and it's not like you can choose which color is best to use during inspection time, since inspection time is spent on planning the EO line.



It may not be the colour that benefits us; it could be doing the EOLine. If you do a x2/y2/z2 rotation, the unoriented edges will still be unoriented. So, if you end up with an EO case that requires B and D turns, you can do a x2 rotation to turn that into F and U turns without affecting the orientation of the edges, and that could lead to a marginally faster EOLine.

I may make this post in the ZZ thread; this isn't the place to really discuss this.


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## Kattenvriendin (Jan 1, 2013)

YAY Marcel, you GO!


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## MarcelP (Jan 2, 2013)

Today I did on the train to work about 75 slow solves on green. And tonight without warming up I did 12 timed solves on green. 

average of 12: 37.94
39.51 41.00 38.77 (45.07) 39.37 38.63 37.05 (28.20) 33.88 36.71 41.61 32.91

The 28.20 was nice but I was hoping for a better average. Oh well.. maybe tomorrow. no more time to practice today.


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## Schmidt (Jan 3, 2013)

You asked me if I was CN, so I made this


Spoiler



L2 B2 F2 R' U2 B2 D2 R2 F2 L' D2 B R' U2 F' L F D' R2 B'
D R2 L' U2 D2 B' L F' D L' U F2 D B2 D2 L2 B2 R2 D' R2 D
L2 F2 D R B' L F' L2 U B' R D2 B2 R' F2 L' F2 L' F2 U2 D2
R' D F2 D' R' U L D F R D2 F2 R2 U2 R B2 R' U2 D2 R2
R' D' F' D' F R B' R U F' U2 R2 U2 D2 L D2 L U2 L' F2 R'

single
best: 20.30
worst: 44.63

Average: 27.54 (σ = 5.37)
Mean: 28.20

Time List:
White: 24.93, 20.88, 23.09[PLL], 21.59, 21.86=22.18 (σ = 0.80)
Yellow: 21.46, 27.71, 22.78, 20.30, 24.68=22.97 (σ = 1.62)
Blue: 24.84, 44.63, 26.81, 28.86, 26.03=27.23 (σ = 1.46)
Orange: 41.34, 21.84, 26.96, 30.19, 39.65=32.27 (σ = 6.59)
Red: 24.30, 28.09, 27.53, 29.53, 32.19=28.38 (σ = 1.03)
Green: 37.91, 24.90, 44.09, 25.68, 31.33=31.64 (σ = 6.12)


I took the first 5 scrambles from the substepcomp and solved with W,O,B,O,R and G
Overall I'm CN, but by color I'm not with O and G.


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## sneaklyfox (Jan 3, 2013)

Schmidt said:


> You asked me if I was CN, so I made this
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> ...



What do you mean that you are CN overall? The averages don't support that.


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## moralsh (Jan 3, 2013)

TheNextFeliks said:


> Man I wish my intro thread took off like this one. It is two months old though so I shouldn't bump it.



You just have to post your progress there every now and then and be a nice guy overall, that or being dutch and 43, pick one


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## MarcelP (Jan 4, 2013)

sneaklyfox said:


> What do you mean that you are CN overall? The averages don't support that.



Yes, I see a difference in white and yellow compared to the rest of the colors. However. If I got these times I would also call myself color neutral overall.



moralsh said:


> You just have to post your progress there every now and then and be a nice guy overall, that or being dutch and 43, pick one



LOL. I think being Dutch and old helps a lot.


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## MarcelP (Jan 4, 2013)

Ok, I did about 100 - 200 slow solves on green the last 4 days. Today I did a timed Ao50.






The first few solves of today where closer to a minute. You can see that my brain had not adapted to green cross. However.. after a warming up of 10 solves or so it gets in the green mode again. I dare to say that my color filter has been set. Looking at the averages, an Ao12 of 31.31 and an Ao5 of 28.15 is rediculous fast for only 4 days of training. I did Ao12 on white cross to see if everything is still OK. But got a 36 seconds.. It scared the bejezus out of me.. But then I figured, that is all part of the transition. When solving on white now I do the same as with solving on green. I start to look for an corner containing white and then look what the other two colors are. So my color filter for white has not been set. anyway.. I am a believer now. I will continue on CN training. I might even set me back one or two months (although I doubt that) but I really enjoy it.


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## moralsh (Jan 4, 2013)

I was planning to leave CN for some time later, but I just couldn't resist doing some solves on green today:



Spoiler



Rubik's cube, cross on green
04-ene-2013 11:22:29 - 12:10:59

Mean: 39.65
Average: 39.10
Best time: 30.45
Median: 38.54
Worst time: 1:07.41
Standard deviation: 6.85

Best average of 5: 35.19
32-36 - 37.07 34.39 (43.39) (31.28) 34.11

Best average of 12: 35.82
25-36 - 32.03 34.20 37.62 39.14 34.31 36.75 38.62 37.07 34.39 (43.39) (31.28) 34.11


Spoiler



1. 40.78 R2 B2 F2 U' F2 U L2 D L2 D2 B L2 B' R B F' R F' U2 F2 U'
2. 40.82 U2 R2 B2 D' F2 U2 B2 U L2 U2 B' U F2 R' B' R D R L D'
3. 38.77 B2 F2 D' L2 F2 L2 U F2 R2 L2 U2 R F D2 B R2 U F D' B' F' U'
4. 40.24 F2 U F2 U2 L2 D' B2 U' R2 U' F2 R F' U L' B F2 R' B2 L U'
5. 41.41 F2 D B2 U L2 F2 U2 B2 F2 R2 D' B' D L F' U' R2 B2 D2 L'
6. 51.84 D2 B2 L2 F2 D' F2 U' L2 F2 U F2 L' D F D R F2 R' B L'
7. 36.59 B2 D' U2 B2 U B2 R2 D2 B2 R2 F' R' D' B R' B' U' F2 L2 F U2
8. 38.87 U B2 F2 D' F2 R2 U B2 U' B2 U' B L' U2 B L D' L F' L U2
9. 42.34 R2 F2 U F2 D' F2 D' R2 D' R2 U R' L' D' B F2 R2 U' B' D F2 U2
10. 50.27 D' B2 R2 L2 U F2 R2 D' U2 B2 U2 B R L' F2 R' D2 U L F2 L'
11. 30.45 U2 B2 U' F2 U R2 U2 R2 B2 L2 F D' U2 B2 F D R' L2 F L'
12. 36.41 U' L2 F2 U2 F2 D L2 F2 U2 F2 D2 F L' B2 L D' U B2 R2 L2
13. 35.68 R2 F2 U' R2 L2 D' R2 U' L2 U2 R' L' U' F L U' B' R U F' D2
14. 41.64 R2 U2 F2 L2 D' R2 D2 L2 D R2 D L B2 R U L F' R' L2 B2 R2
15. 1:07.41 D2 L2 D F2 D B2 R2 L2 D B2 R' D' B2 U B R B U B' L
16. 53.89 L2 F2 L2 U L2 F2 D' B2 U L B' R' U L' U2 F D' R F U
17. 37.04 D2 F2 D' L2 B2 U2 L2 F2 D2 F2 R D' B' U2 F' L D' F R2 F2
18. 36.04 R2 U L2 D R2 D B2 F2 R2 F2 U R F' D' R' L' U2 B2 L' U
19. 38.46 L2 F2 U' R2 U2 L2 B2 D' U2 L2 U' R' B F L B2 F' U2 B R U
20. 40.42 F2 U B2 U L2 B2 L2 F2 D2 F2 U' B' F2 R L B' D' B D' F' R D'
21. 36.71 U2 F2 R2 L2 D2 U R2 U' B2 U L' B' L2 D2 R' L' D R U F U2
22. 41.33 B2 R2 D U B2 D' L2 D' R2 L2 U' L' B' D2 U' L' B U' R F D2
23. 37.79 B2 U B2 U2 F2 R2 L2 D' F2 L2 D2 R' B' R B2 D2 B' R2 L' D2 L'
24. 39.24 R2 U2 R2 L2 U' B2 D' F2 D' F2 U' R D B2 D2 U' B F U' L F D2
25. 32.03 U' F2 U L2 U2 F2 L2 D' L2 B2 U R' D L B' R F2 R' U2 F' D2
26. 34.20 U2 B2 L2 D R2 D' L2 U' F2 U2 B' L2 D2 R U2 B L D' U' L
27. 37.62 R2 U2 L2 F2 D L2 D L2 B2 L2 F L' B F' D' R L2 D' B' U2
28. 39.14 F2 L2 D2 L2 D B2 F2 D' L2 U2 L2 F' D B' R2 U2 R D L D U'
29. 34.31 D' R2 D2 R2 B2 U' F2 U R2 B2 U2 B R2 U R2 F2 L' B D2 L2 U'
30. 36.75 L2 D2 B2 D' R2 D2 U B2 R2 D' F R B D L U B R' L' D' U'
31. 38.62 U2 L2 D' F2 L2 D R2 B2 U' L2 F2 L' U2 B D2 R2 D' R2 L' D R
32. 37.07 F2 L2 D' U' L2 F2 L2 U B2 D2 U2 B U' B' F R B2 D2 R' B' R2 U'
33. 34.39 F2 R2 D' L2 F2 R2 U2 B2 U B2 U F D' R2 B D U2 F R' B' U2
34. 43.39 L2 D2 B2 U' B2 U L2 B2 L2 D' L B' F U' L F L D R' F2
35. 31.28 B2 D2 B2 R2 D2 R2 U' B2 F2 R2 U R' B U B L' F2 U' B R' F'
36. 34.11 U2 R2 U' L2 F2 L2 B2 U F2 R2 F2 L B D' F2 U' L' B' F' U F' D2






I find the cross the hardest part, the pairing seems awkward at the begining but once you get used to it seems easier. I think I could get to speed on the different colors doing solves on the same color always, but I find it very hard to adapt from solve to solve, I'l try to solve on a different color often and I'll join you on the sub-30 race once I graduate from white cross solving (which may take some time) if you're not graduated already (which may not take as much time as you think!)

I tried also to solve a couple of times with no inspection, awful, around the minute


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## MarcelP (Jan 4, 2013)

Those are great times Raul. I think it will take a while before I have all colors in my 'filter' Maybe after learning one I will loose an already learned filter. Who knows..  I will start with blue crosses tonight. I have tried a few already in the last few days. And blue seems easier than green. I don't know why...


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## moralsh (Jan 4, 2013)

I'm by no means an expert in neither CN nor switching to CN, but I think you should also try a few real CN solves everyday, inspecting the cube and choosing the easiest cross, this way whenever you end your specific color training you will have some practice in looking for crosses on other colors.

I'll try different colors during the weekend to see which one is my green, green itself looks like a good candidate, though


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## MarcelP (Jan 4, 2013)

moralsh said:


> nor switching to CN..



My goal is to actually switch. Reason, if all fails I can always go back to be single cross solver. I want to switch because crosses are my weakest part. I still have over 5 seconds on hard crosses. I think finding the easiest crosses in CN is the only advantage of being CN. Some people say their lookahead has improved. Well for me that is not the case. I finally started to look for the next pair while solving the previous. Right now with CN, I have nu clue of what egde I will have to find before I look at the corner. Maybe after all cross colors have set their filter in my brain this might come back to me. And then I will be just as fast on all other colors as I was on white, but with the big advantage of nice crosses


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## MarcelP (Jan 4, 2013)

Color neutral is fun!

[video=youtube_share;SQ0tE_uIAtA]http://youtu.be/SQ0tE_uIAtA[/video]


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## MarcelP (Jan 5, 2013)

Getting tired of me already?.. all those boring videos.. LOL






EDIT:

I just did a great CN Ao12. Only two white crosses in there:

Average of 12: 30.70
23.40 32.15 27.12 26.57 (41.04) 33.73 34.07 39.93 *(14.39)* 39.93 29.56 20.51

The 14.39 (!!) and the last one where on white.. Yeah... everything will be allright in a while..  Then I can call all the single cross solver 'pussies' LOL


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## BenVdd (Jan 5, 2013)

I better start learning CN aswell now. I don't wanna be called pussy  is that average on all colors or just green/white?


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## moralsh (Jan 5, 2013)

And the 41.04 was on geeen? 

Wow, stop practicing or I will never catch you!


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## lcsbiffi (Jan 5, 2013)

*Re: Hi, Marcel from Holland here*

You better think twice before calling me pussy, or I might travel all the way to Holland to kick your cubic as* lol 

Good average though, I don't plan on becoming color neutral but I'm sure it's really helpful


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## MarcelP (Jan 5, 2013)

That average was on all colors. All good times where on green and blue. And all bad times where on red and orange. Not bad considering I have not practiced red and orange one bit.  I really wish I could practice more than I can these days.. I think I am addicted LOL...


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## sneaklyfox (Jan 5, 2013)

MarcelP said:


> I think I am addicted LOL...



I've known that for months. Why is cubing so addictive?


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## manstrong (Jan 5, 2013)

Because it's personal, easy to track, has times, and has a variety of methods and puzzles with which to follow. Also, there is a community.


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## MarcelP (Jan 5, 2013)

sneaklyfox said:


> I've known that for months. Why is cubing so addictive?



You knew about mine addiction or your own?


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## Kattenvriendin (Jan 5, 2013)

Hi my name is Kattenvriendin and I am a cubaholic..

LOL


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## sneaklyfox (Jan 5, 2013)

MarcelP said:


> You knew about mine addiction or your own?



Both.


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## MarcelP (Jan 5, 2013)

Kattenvriendin said:


> Hi my name is Kattenvriendin and I am a cubaholic..
> 
> LOL



LOL, an addiction with little side effects (thank god)..


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## sneaklyfox (Jan 5, 2013)

MarcelP said:


> LOL, an addiction with little side effects (thank god)..



I dunno about that. It does take time. Money too (even though it's relatively cheap for a hobby). I think about cubes a lot and dream about cubes. And withdrawal symptoms would probably be twitchy fingers or something.

Hehe... but really, for me it's brain exercise. I need it.


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## JE007 (Jan 5, 2013)

Kattenvriendin said:


> Hi my name is Kattenvriendin and I am a cubaholic..
> 
> LOL



Nice when you must propose yourself on the first day of a new schoolyear 
What are your hobbies? --> euh...cubing


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## uniacto (Jan 5, 2013)

JE007 said:


> Nice when you must propose yourself on the first day of a new schoolyear
> What are your hobbies? --> euh...cubing



been there, done that. got a lot of weird looks, but oh well.


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## Kattenvriendin (Jan 5, 2013)

Yeah.. and you know what.. we Dutch folk don't have a proper word for it.. so it goes like..

"kubussen"

Uhm what?

"Rubik kubussen?"

Roling eyes and then "Oh that".

I wanna smack those folk, truly. LOL


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## uniacto (Jan 5, 2013)

Kattenvriendin said:


> Yeah.. and you know what.. we Dutch folk don't have a proper word for it.. so it goes like..
> 
> "kubussen"
> 
> ...



haha i just go like: " Well... I do this thing where I solve a Rubiks Cube as fast as I can..."


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## Kattenvriendin (Jan 5, 2013)

Does that work better with less rolling of the eyes? 

Cause I will change to that if so.

They usually shut up when I tell them I have a world ranking on the thing. *snort*


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## uniacto (Jan 5, 2013)

Kattenvriendin said:


> Does that work better with less rolling of the eyes?
> 
> Cause I will change to that if so.
> 
> They usually shut up when I tell them I have a world ranking on the thing. *snort*



hmmm... I dunno, only a couple of people have rolled their eyes at me, but they were doing it jokingly. I guess I'm already labeled "nerd", so it's expected of me. haha! 

I don't have a world ranking yet, but it'd be hilarious to see their reactions when I tell them lol


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## MarcelP (Jan 6, 2013)

sneaklyfox said:


> I dunno about that. It does take time. Money too (even though it's relatively cheap for a hobby). I think about cubes a lot and dream about cubes. And withdrawal symptoms would probably be twitchy fingers or something.
> 
> Hehe... but really, for me it's brain exercise. I need it.



Well, I don't know what it is about cubing that makes it so addictive. I suppose it has something to do with, 
- Getting improvement real easily
- Impress the 'none believers' 
- All the different and interesting methods
- There are so many Chinese stores where you can buy that one cube you still do not have

Yes, it takes time. But that is with most hobbies.  For me, I use my travel time to work each day to practice about 75 - 100 slow solves.


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## MarcelP (Jan 6, 2013)

After only two days of Blue cross training an Ao25 on blue cross only:

Mean: 33.72
Standard deviation: 5.14
Best Time: 21.90
Worst Time: 50.34

Best average of 5: 28.97
9-13 - 29.98 29.62 (21.90) (36.39) 27.32

Best average of 12: 32.37
9-20 - 29.98 29.62 (21.90) 36.39 27.32 (40.03) 32.67 33.46 36.46 35.96 32.39 29.45

I can see my brain can do sub 30 solves but gets thrown off every now and then which results in 40+ solves. My guess is that these will disappear over time leaving me with nice results only


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## Gordon (Jan 6, 2013)

These times are very impressive for me, the best time, avg of 5 and avg of 12 are all better than my PBs on the white cross which I do since over a year.


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## MarcelP (Jan 6, 2013)

Gordon said:


> These times are very impressive for me, the best time, avg of 5 and avg of 12 are all better than my PBs on the white cross which I do since over a year.




Thanks! I am very happy with these times! I suspect that in one month there will be a great improvement in my times.


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## MarcelP (Jan 6, 2013)

I just did an Ao5 on all colors. I was not expecting such good times..

Blue average of 5: *31.66*
1-5 - 28.34 32.53 34.12 (34.58) (28.21)

Green average of 5: *31.05*
1-5 - (34.32) 30.23 30.13 (26.42) 32.78

White average of 5: *29.96*
1-5 - 30.02 (24.92) 31.44 28.41 (31.48)

Yellow average of 5:* 31.18*
1-5 - 28.28 35.18 30.07 (24.48) (40.28)

Red average of 5: *35.29*
1-5 - 37.01 (31.24) (38.94) 32.52 36.35

Orange average of 5: *32.21*
1-5 - (36.88) 32.04 33.36 31.24 (26.18)

I am happy to see that my white crosses have not decreased more or anything. And without haveing trained Red and orange I see that my mind already is looking at the cube in a color neutral way. Because a few days ago I could not solve a cube on red or orange even if my life depended on it.. LOL.


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## Kattenvriendin (Jan 6, 2013)

WOW!!

That is amazing!

How did you train? Did you do (say) a week on all colors, or did you switch to a different color and then kept on until the times went down to a certain level?


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## MarcelP (Jan 6, 2013)

Kattenvriendin said:


> WOW!!
> 
> That is amazing!
> 
> How did you train? Did you do (say) a week on all colors, or did you switch to a different color and then kept on until the times went down to a certain level?



Thanks! I followed this video:

Click here for video

He says, train each color for 5 days.. I skipped yellow since I felt really OK on that part. I did the 5 days on green. First averages where over one minute. After one hour training I got them down to 40 seconds. After 5 days they were around 33 - 34. Now I am on the third day of Blue training. I love this stuff. You know why? You can really quick make progress if you train seriously.


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## Kattenvriendin (Jan 6, 2013)

Thanks for the link.

I am currently working on yellow, it is going alright. Will switch to another color soon enough


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## sneaklyfox (Jan 6, 2013)

Very inspiring. Makes me want to try for real. Except I heard it it harder to transition if you are faster. Like jskyler, you are trying around 30 second mark. I wish I had started off doing all colours besides white. The funny thing is, I have a background of green cross from my original beginners' method from a couple decades ago. You'd think it would be easiest (after white and yellow) to revert back to green.

What if I did, say, an average of 12 on all 6 colours (72 solves), then chose the weakest cross and practiced that one only for 2-3 days, did 72 solves again on all colours and repeat with whichever is the weakest cross? I wonder what would happen if I try seriously?


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## Kattenvriendin (Jan 6, 2013)

I bet it would help a lot!

Times will likely increase at first, but in the end you can profit from choosing the best cross for one


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## JE007 (Jan 6, 2013)

@Marcel: do you use always silicone spray for your cubes?


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## ThomasJE (Jan 6, 2013)

sneaklyfox said:


> Very inspiring. Makes me want to try for real. Except I heard it it harder to transition if you are faster. Like jskyler, you are trying around 30 second mark. I wish I had started off doing all colours besides white. The funny thing is, I have a background of green cross from my original beginners' method from a couple decades ago. You'd think it would be easiest (after white and yellow) to revert back to green.
> 
> What if I did, say, an average of 12 on all 6 colours (72 solves), then chose the weakest cross and practiced that one only for 2-3 days, did 72 solves again on all colours and repeat with whichever is the weakest cross? I wonder what would happen if I try seriously?



That is the way many people improve their PLL algorithms, so I don't see why it wouldn't work.


----------



## MarcelP (Jan 6, 2013)

Kattenvriendin said:


> Thanks for the link.
> 
> I am currently working on yellow, it is going alright. Will switch to another color soon enough



Great, it will be fun seeing your times!



sneaklyfox said:


> Very inspiring. Makes me want to try for real. Except I heard it it harder to transition if you are faster. Like jskyler, you are trying around 30 second mark. I wish I had started off doing all colours besides white. The funny thing is, I have a background of green cross from my original beginners' method from a couple decades ago. You'd think it would be easiest (after white and yellow) to revert back to green.
> 
> What if I did, say, an average of 12 on all 6 colours (72 solves), then chose the weakest cross and practiced that one only for 2-3 days, did 72 solves again on all colours and repeat with whichever is the weakest cross? I wonder what would happen if I try seriously?



Yes, I had not even considered that. I hope that when I have completed the 5 days for each color that all of them will be around the 30 second mark. That would be awesome. And if you do just that (checking what your weak color is), then you can still do practicing hard crosses since you will be practicing that weak color for a while. 

Why don't you just start today?  My guess is that in two days or so you have them all around the 20 - 22 seconds


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## ajayd (Jan 6, 2013)

Do you believe that color neutral will help you get faster [email protected]
I was thinking about switching from your progress, but how much does this help your solves? Oh yeah, and I GOT A SUB 20 Ao12!!!!


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## MarcelP (Jan 6, 2013)

ajayd said:


> Do you believe that color neutral will help you get faster [email protected]
> I was thinking about switching from your progress, but how much does this help your solves? Oh yeah, and I GOT A SUB 20 Ao12!!!!



I don't know. I hope my CN solves will get faster and hopefully break my PB's. If not I can always go back to solving single color only  I will keep doing CN for a while though.. It's just fun.


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## Kattenvriendin (Jan 6, 2013)

Oh the yellows are known already, I switched to orange today 

3x3 on yellow PB 39.64 - AO5 43.26 - AO12 44.37

Didn't want to wait longer and I must say it isn't going too bad hehe.. *repeats to self white is on the right of blue...*


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## BenVdd (Jan 6, 2013)

did 4 solves on green 29.46, 38.95, 29.78, 28.11 now i am off to eat  pretty decent considering i did not practice it that much yet. (did it on stickerless guhong to help with recognition tho :$)


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## MarcelP (Jan 7, 2013)

BenVdd said:


> (did it on stickerless guhong to help with recognition tho :$)



Nice times Ben. When I solve my stickerless Zhanchi or Guhong now I get really thrown off because my eyes are used to halfbright stickers.


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## BenVdd (Jan 7, 2013)

I think i'm still not used to my white zhanchi even with half-brights on it.


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## moralsh (Jan 7, 2013)

CN tempts me a lot...

Ao5 on White: 29.95:
27.34 (27.20) (35.77) 31.69 30.83
Ao5 on Yellow: 38.46:
37.04 38.63 (40.28) 39.71 (29.79)
Ao5 on Green: 37.80:
37.43 40.00 (50.01) 35.97 (33.05)
Ao5 on Blue: 38.64:
(32.91) 39.07 (41.24) 40.17 36.69
Ao5 on Red: 36.94:
39.09 (43.52) (28.01) 39.30 32.42
Ao5 on Orange: 39.85:
(51.99) 37.71 (35.21) 43.41 38.43

...But I'm not even close


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## MarcelP (Jan 7, 2013)

moralsh said:


> CN tempts me a lot...
> 
> ...But I'm not even close



Just do it! These are great times. I was reading my posts from a week ago. I was saying then 'I just did an Ao12 on green 43 seconds bla bla it's though bla bla'.. Well.. In less than a week more than 10 seconds came off these averages.. It is just perseverence.


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## moralsh (Jan 7, 2013)

MarcelP said:


> Just do it! These are great times. I was reading my posts from a week ago. I was saying then 'I just did an Ao12 on green 43 seconds bla bla it's though bla bla'.. Well.. In less than a week more than 10 seconds came off these averages.. It is just perseverence.



I'm very tempted of doing the switch before graduating in the race to sub-30, because I find it more fun and because I'm somehow stuck with my cross on white or even going backwards, I'll probably mix both things up a little


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## JE007 (Jan 7, 2013)

JE007 said:


> @Marcel: do you use always silicone spray for your cubes?




.?


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## MarcelP (Jan 7, 2013)

JE007 said:


> .?



I am sorry, did I miss that one? Yes, I use 100% silicone. I buy it in the hardware store in a spray can. HR260. It is cheap (less than $10 for I think 400 ml or something) and efficient. Last weekend I tried oil on my main Zhanchi and Type C but washed it out after a day. Silicone has no smell, does not feel sticky and your cube gets very fast


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## BenVdd (Jan 7, 2013)

never used lube on my zhanchi yet. Never really lubed my guhong decently either. I might try this wonderfull substance out sometime. If i am ever in the vincinity of a hardware store


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## JE007 (Jan 7, 2013)

MarcelP said:


> I am sorry, did I miss that one? Yes, I use 100% silicone. I buy it in the hardware store in a spray can. HR260. It is cheap (less than $10 for I think 400 ml or something) and efficient. Last weekend I tried oil on my main Zhanchi and Type C but washed it out after a day. Silicone has no smell, does not feel sticky and your cube gets very fast



Ok thanks, does it also work on your stickerless cube?
And must you take the cube apart to lube it?


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## Kattenvriendin (Jan 7, 2013)

This color neutral stuff is FUN!

Every now and then I insert a pair and then I look at it "what the hell did I just do?" cause it is obviously in wrong, but it is going nicely and faster already.

I could see the advantage.. I had a scramble with 3 of the 4 on the red cross already in place! (and then I had to force myself to solve it on orange after all as that is what is being trained but that was tempting lol).


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## MarcelP (Jan 7, 2013)

Yes, I make a lot of mistakes too. It is getting on my nerves a bit now.. LOL My white cross solves are mostly floawless.. And each solve on green, blue, red and orange is a struggle.. Still I am sticking with it.


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## MarcelP (Jan 7, 2013)

JE007 said:


> Ok thanks, does it also work on your stickerless cube?
> And must you take the cube apart to lube it?




No, the sprak can comes with a long thin seringe (how do you call such a thing?) Just spray a tiny bit between one corner and an edge and then rotate that surface 10 times. Repeat for all faces.


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## Kattenvriendin (Jan 7, 2013)

Images and 1000 words apply here very well LOL


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## JE007 (Jan 7, 2013)

Oh, because in this film

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gXNTSqJFZZc

the maker says that you have to take the cube apart because otherwise the spray works as a glue


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## MarcelP (Jan 7, 2013)

Nope, never done that.


----------



## JE007 (Jan 7, 2013)

Ok, thanks


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## Gordon (Jan 8, 2013)

JE007 said:


> Oh, because in this film
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gXNTSqJFZZc
> 
> the maker says that you have to take the cube apart because otherwise the spray works as a glue



I think it depends on the amount of silicone spray you put into your cube. If you use to much, the cubies can stick together. I used both techiques, and I don't feel any difference. (But I'm maybe not the standard to compare to)


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## MarcelP (Jan 8, 2013)

So, almost no time to practice the last two days.. About 50 slow solves on blue per day.

I did a quick Ao12 :

Average of 12: 33.63
1-12 - 35.96 37.64 (27.99) 34.70 35.71 33.16 40.36 28.52 (41.63) 30.90 29.22 30.11


Not to bad at all.. Although getting sub 30 average seems a long way to go..


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## Kattenvriendin (Jan 8, 2013)

Just keep at it. It's ups and downs so I find.

One day I practice and things go zoof, the other day I practice and it is like walking through butter.


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## MarcelP (Jan 9, 2013)

Yes, Ups and downs here as well. On Friday I will do an Ao100 CN. I will decide depending on the results if I will continue practicing CN or not,


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## Noahaha (Jan 9, 2013)

*Hi, Marcel from Holland here*



Kattenvriendin said:


> One day I practice and things go zoof, the other day I practice and it is like walking through butter.



I'm not actually sure which is good and which is bad 0.o


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## Kattenvriendin (Jan 9, 2013)

Let me make it clear then.. zoof compared to mud 

Hrm.. even the dirty minded can think THAT good and bad.. lol


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## MarcelP (Jan 9, 2013)

I think 'Zoof in Dutch zoef' is in English 'Woooshhhh'.. sound of speed...


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## MarcelP (Jan 9, 2013)

The last few days have I not been practicing much. I have been working mostly on my Alg trainer 

Download scrambler_v1_2_0.jar here







Next few days I will commit to serious training on CN again


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## MarcelP (Jan 11, 2013)

Well, today I did two Ao50's to see where I am at. First the Color neutral Ao50. I did all of them on anything but white. So there where a few yellows in there:

Mean: 35.14
Average: *34.95*
Best time: 24.08
Median: 34.58
Worst time: 55.43
Standard deviation: 5.88

Best average of 5: 29.17
4-8 - 26.95 30.00 30.56 (25.88) (32.88)

Best average of 12: 32.32
12-23 - 29.07 35.36 (38.63) 34.32 (24.08) 32.54 32.47 32.80 33.57 27.54 27.76 37.80

I filmed a few solves. You can see that I take too many and too long pauzes.:

39. *31.24 *D B2 D U2 L2 U' L2 F2 R2 D R2 B' L' B D F' D2 L' F D' F
40. *33.72* U2 B2 U' L2 B2 R2 D F2 D R2 L2 F R' D' R' B U2 B L D2 U
41. *33.74* D' B2 U L2 D2 F2 R2 D' R2 U' B D' L' U2 B2 R2 B F' U' F'
42. *36.14* D2 L2 D L2 U B2 D' F2 D' U' B' U B2 L D' R L F L U2 B

[video=youtube_share;gMqMB--wWA8]http://youtu.be/gMqMB--wWA8[/video]

Then I did the Ao50 on white/yellow:

Mean: 29.92
Average: *29.84*
Best time: 23.68
Median: 29.75
Worst time: 40.12
Standard deviation: 3.84

Best average of 5: 26.50
6-10 - 25.13 (25.08) (30.74) 29.14 25.24

Best average of 12: 28.00
5-16 - 27.54 25.13 25.08 30.74 29.14 25.24 (31.62) 31.42 (23.87) 29.42 27.76 28.54

I also filmed a few (the last 6):

45. *31.56* R2 D' B2 U F2 U' F2 D' B2 D2 B D B2 L B2 R2 B L2 U'
46. *28.52* U' B2 D' R2 F2 U R2 U' B2 L2 U2 F L' D R' U B' U L' B' D U'
47. *24.52* D L2 F2 U2 B2 L2 U' B2 U2 L2 U2 L' F R2 L2 U' R' F2 L2 F2 D
48. *24.31* D' F2 R2 U' R2 L2 D2 F2 L2 B2 U' F' L U R D' F' L' B' U' L'
49. *31.54* D F2 D B2 F2 L2 D L2 B2 U' F2 L' D2 F R' B' L B' U2 L2 F2 U'
50. *28.38* U F2 D2 R2 U' R2 F2 L2 D2 B2 U2 L B' R' D' R' F' U2 L B D2 U2

Click here because I can not embed two videos in one post 

I am quite pleased with my results on CN. I wonder however if I ever will get to my white yellow times. Solving on white is real different. You do not have to think or concentrate as hard as on the other colors. But that said, solving CN has already grown on me. In the Ao50 on white I accidently did a few on other colors.. LOL. Getting used to finding the best cross is really easy 

EDIT: just watched them myself. Don't mind the 2+ penalties.. LOL it's just training.


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## omer (Jan 12, 2013)

Marcel you should really practice on avoiding cube rotations... On the first solve of the video you did like 6-7 of them (didn't watch the rest), that's way too much... some of them were y2 which could always be avoided.
Try practicing on slow solving, don't go fast just solve the F2L the best way you can, not the fastest. try inserting with the left hand and not just the right, try inserting to the back of the cube. If you can't see a piece try to figure out where it is by eliminating all other options.

From your thread I can see all you do is timed solves, that's not good, you should really work on solving slowly trying to figure out creative ways to solve F2L and the cross, do it for a while and then come back to timed solves, you'll improve a lot.


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## cowabunga (Jan 12, 2013)

omer said:


> From your thread I can see all you do is timed solves, that's not good



What about his slow solving on the train?


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## Kattenvriendin (Jan 12, 2013)

Omer, it is quite funny to see you critique him.. Marcel is faster than you are! *giggle*


Are you doing enough slow solves?


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## omer (Jan 12, 2013)

Kattenvriendin said:


> Omer, it is quite funny to see you critique him.. Marcel is faster than you are! *giggle*
> 
> 
> Are you doing enough slow solves?


He is faster than me, but not a lot faster. I just noticed he has a weakness (a lot of rotations) and told him he should fix it to get faster.


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## MarcelP (Jan 12, 2013)

Thanks Omer. I appreciate everyone's input on my solving. That's how I got this fast anyway. You are right about the rotations in the first video. Well, I just recently switched to color neutral. It takes forever for me to find pairs. So when I can't find anything in a split second I simply make a rotation in the hope that it will reveal new pairs that I can slot. If you look at the white solves I do not make a lot of rotations except for the ones which I learned to slot with a y or y' rotation. For example like this:






I use y' U' (R' U R) because that's how I learned them.





y' (R' U' R)

These are legitimate use of rotations. And maybe I could put some more effort in avoiding these rotations but it will not make me a lot faster.

About the slow solves you are right. These are very good for improvement, I only do once a week big timed sessions. On fridays. All other days I do slow solves in the train to work. I travell each day 3 hours per train. I do approx 100 slow solves in the train. And if I get to it I do also 100 slow (but a lot faster) solves at home. At home I do not have to worry about disturbing other travellers


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## JE007 (Jan 12, 2013)

For the first example you can also just do: FR'F'R


Don't know or you find it easier.


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## JasonK (Jan 12, 2013)

Or, if you don't like F moves, r U R' U' M


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## MarcelP (Jan 12, 2013)

Yes, I know the other moves. In fact for most F2L cases I have put different moves in my
Alg trainer so I get familliar with other moves. The fact is however, for slow turners like m e, this is not going to affect my time in a positive way. I have to think about what I am going to do etc. The moves with the y'and y turns are for me 100 % natural and relatively fast. After getting sub 25 I might considder doing so more work in this area.

I recieved an unknown cube in the post today from China. I can not tell from which shop it comes and I can not tell what kind of cube it is. It is really smooth. It looks like a Dayan Zhanchi, but with more rounded corners. And the color is more yellowish white (ivory?).


Spoiler


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## lcsbiffi (Jan 12, 2013)

I have no idea what kind of cube is that, never seen one before oO

bt Marcel, do you have a staackmat timer ? I've been trying to find an online store that ships to Brazil but I can't seem to find one


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## MarcelP (Jan 12, 2013)

Yep, Dealmaz had cheap ones (around 10 - 15 dollar). Free shipping world wide.


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## MarcelP (Jan 13, 2013)

I did a big timed CN session this morning. I had not so great times. Av just sub 35 seconds. I used also a few white crosses in there. If not it would have been a lot worse. Then I did an Ao12 on white only.

Average of 12: 27.01
21.98 29.17 29.68 (21.79) 25.07 27.70 24.95 28.95 (30.45) 25.28 27.43 29.92

I think it is time see realize that CN is not the way for me to get faster. I will continue a little longer on CN because I find it more fun.. We'll see...


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## Kattenvriendin (Jan 13, 2013)

*kuchinboxkuch* LOL


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## MarcelP (Jan 13, 2013)

Kattenvriendin said:


> *kuchinboxkuch* LOL



Fixed


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## Kattenvriendin (Jan 13, 2013)

Sent LOL


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## MarcelP (Jan 14, 2013)

Well, just when I was about to stop practicing color neutral I had this Ao12 today:

Best average of 12: 29.48
1-12 - 33.73 25.94 29.63 29.22 30.47 (33.88) 28.01 30.79 (25.85) 29.51 27.06 30.45

None on white and one on yellow.. This average is a fluce (spelling?). Since my CN averages are far from being sub 30. Nonetheless I am very happy with it. It gives me quite a boost to continue on color neutral. Oh end.. I did not do a single CN solve the last day. I only did white solves. That makes it even more strange.


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## uvafan (Jan 14, 2013)

MarcelP said:


> Well, just when I was about to stop practicing color neutral I had this Ao12 today:
> 
> Best average of 12: 29.48
> 1-12 - 33.73 25.94 29.63 29.22 30.47 (33.88) 28.01 30.79 (25.85) 29.51 27.06 30.45
> ...



Yeah, it's spelled "fluke." Generally you'll only see -uce when it's pronounced "oos."


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## MarcelP (Jan 14, 2013)

Ah thanks! It's been 30 years ago since I had english in school


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## cowabunga (Jan 14, 2013)

What is your CN movecount vs White cross movecount?

I was CN with petrus but forced myself to start with the same color when I switched to roux.

Maybe the 2 moves saved aren't worth it? Keep it simple


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## uvafan (Jan 14, 2013)

cowabunga said:


> What is your CN movecount vs White cross movecount?
> 
> I was CN with petrus but forced myself to start with the same color when I switched to roux.
> 
> Maybe the 2 moves saved aren't worth it? Keep it simple


This topic is very debatable. Both sides could and would make a very strong argument. I don't think there needs to be arguing about this on this thread.


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## cowabunga (Jan 14, 2013)

How is movecount debatable?
I just wanted to know if he uses fewer moves CN.


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## MarcelP (Jan 14, 2013)

I love to talk about this topic. The Color neutral thread seems almost dead anyway. I think the move count for me on white and CN are about the same. I do the same F2L techniques. The only thing is that on white solves I do not have to think about which edge goes with which corner. So I can use that time to look for the next pair while solving the current. I can not do that on CN solves. I find the corner and then have to reconstruct the egde colors from there. It seems to go better and better with practice but it is still far from white solves. Yesterday I did only white cross solves and did nothing but Lookahead training. So looking for the next pair almost before solving the current. It kind of affected my CN solving today  In a good way..
You are right about switching to Cn if it helps only just two moves or 1 or 2 seconds on an easy cross. What is the point? I think it is a lot of investment for just that small achievement. However, if I look at the true color neutral guys, these are the ones that started out color neutral from the beginning. And these are the people that will get world records. So being CN is a good thing. If you are a very dominant color and solved a million times on that one, I think it is not worth the effert to switch. 

I have a very dominant white cross (since I can not even get same averages with yellow), but I find it just big fun to switch. I am not sure if I ever will be CN. At least I will have seriously tried.


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## uvafan (Jan 14, 2013)

cowabunga said:


> How is movecount debatable?
> I just wanted to know if he uses fewer moves CN.



I was talking about the point you brought up in your last sentence, which brought up whether or not it was worth it to switch to CN.


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## sneaklyfox (Jan 14, 2013)

Actually I think benefits of being CN are hardly the one move that you save in the cross. If that were the case, it certainly would not be worth going through all the trouble to switch. It's more because you can look ahead further if you happen to have an easy cross and later when you learn advanced techniques like X-cross for example, you'll be able to do it much more often with 6 choices than with just 1 choice. Sometimes I wonder though how much inspection time it costs to decide on a good cross and plan it out? Also, one cross may look a little easier but another one may actually be better? I remember watching some videos on youtube of Feliks doing some solves in competition. Sometimes after he plans his cross with his chosen colour he's getting ready to start the timer and meanwhile he's shaking his head. I wonder if it's because he wish he chose a different colour because the one he chose wasn't as good as he thought it would be.


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## Kattenvriendin (Jan 14, 2013)

My experience on being color neutral doesn't affect the inserting of F2L pairs. Matching them up, yes, but inserting is as fast as always.


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## MarcelP (Jan 14, 2013)

sneaklyfox said:


> Sometimes I wonder though how much inspection time it costs to decide on a good cross and plan it out?



Actually this is for me the easiest part now. In the beginning of switching to CN I found it very hard to decide what cross color to pick. Now I scan the cube in like 2 - 4 seconds and know immediatly when color to choose. Then I start thinking out the cross and have about 10 seconds left of inspection time to do so. In fact I have found my self doing Ao12 white solves 'only' and on accident do cross on any other color than white. LOL


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## cowabunga (Jan 14, 2013)

Maybe I will give CN another try. 
It is fun


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## MarcelP (Jan 15, 2013)

Today I did an Ao50 COLOR NEUTRAL

I came close with an Ao12 PB. I looked in my archives and I was only sub 31 with Ao50 on white cross just 6 weeks ago.. So, I guess I will stay with color neutral now. It will be just a matter of weeks when I will surpass my current PBs. I am not in a hurry or training for a competition so no worries there.. 

Today is a great day!


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## Kattenvriendin (Jan 15, 2013)

Very well done!!


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## ThomasJE (Jan 15, 2013)

MarcelP said:


> Today I did an Ao50 COLOR NEUTRAL
> 
> I came close with an Ao12 PB. I looked in my archives and I was only sub 31 with Ao50 on white cross just 6 weeks ago.. So, I guess I will stay with color neutral now. It will be just a matter of weeks when I will surpass my current PBs. I am not in a hurry or training for a competition so no worries there..
> 
> Today is a great day!



Nice! Good single at the end too.

Also, if you spell color the English way (colo*u*r), you can get all six colours in the word.


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## sneaklyfox (Jan 15, 2013)

Nice, Marcel. What colour was the 20.24?


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## MarcelP (Jan 15, 2013)

Kattenvriendin said:


> Very well done!!



Thanks. Are you finished with red yet? 



ThomasJE said:


> Nice! Good single at the end too.
> 
> Also, if you spell color the English way (colo*u*r), you can get all six colours in the word.



 Is color without the u a good word? I always thought it was some kind of Canadian spelling with the u.



sneaklyfox said:


> Nice, Marcel. What colour was the 20.24?



The last one was a white cross.. The scramble is on a different computer. I will post it later. I had a a 21 also in there on white. I think I did about 4 or 5 white crosses in these 50. My best none white was a 25 on orange..


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## moralsh (Jan 15, 2013)

sneaklyfox said:


> Nice, Marcel. What colour was the 20.24?



I was going to bet on white because the scramble gives an easy white cross, but that's just the next scramble, isn't it?


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## Kattenvriendin (Jan 15, 2013)

MarcelP said:


> Thanks. Are you finished with red yet?


Yes in fact. Almost hit sub50 AO12 yesterday when I timed myself, so.. soon enough


----------



## uvafan (Jan 15, 2013)

MarcelP said:


> Thanks. Are you finished with red yet?
> 
> 
> 
> Is color without the u a good word? I always thought it was some kind of Canadian spelling with the u.



Yeah, it's the British spelling. I guess Canadians use it also. People in the U.S. spell it color, I'm not really sure which other countries spell it color and which colour.


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## Kattenvriendin (Jan 16, 2013)

Australia would be my guess


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## MarcelP (Jan 16, 2013)

First solve of today


1. 23.94 F2 L2 U2 L2 D' L2 F2 D' B2 R' F2 U F2 L' B' U2 R B' R D

Cross on orange.. 
I am soooo going to stick with color neutral 

EDIT1: First 5.. 
Best average of 5: 28.62
1-5 - (23.94) (32.96) 29.13 28.62 28.12

EDIT2: Oh wow sub 30 on the first 12. Only one white cross (the 25.44)
Best average of 12: 29.44
1-12 - (23.94) 32.96 29.13 28.62 28.12 32.40 28.55 25.44 30.44 29.62 29.07 (34.13)

EDIT3: I managed to squeeze a better Ao5 and Ao12 out there in a total A050:

Mean: 30.36
Average: 30.40
Best time: 21.56
Median: 29.79
Worst time: 37.28
Standard deviation: 3.68

Best average of 5: 27.89
32-36 - (21.56) 27.00 28.24 (36.30) 28.44

Best average of 12: 29.13
32-43 - (21.56) 27.00 28.24 36.30 28.44 (36.43) 27.62 29.95 25.10 28.84 28.47 31.32


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## mark49152 (Jan 17, 2013)

Hi Marcel - you probably have seen this already, but might find it interesting: http://www.cubezone.be/crossstudy.html


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## MarcelP (Jan 17, 2013)

mark49152 said:


> Hi Marcel - you probably have seen this already, but might find it interesting: http://www.cubezone.be/crossstudy.html



No, that is indeed interesting. I already notice that I find much more easy crosses. I am bad at crosses and I think my times on an easy (none white) cross is better than my time on a hard white cross.  Cool webiste btw. His name sounds Dutch.


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## mark49152 (Jan 17, 2013)

MarcelP said:


> No, that is indeed interesting. I already notice that I find much more easy crosses. I am bad at crosses and I think my times on an easy (none white) cross is better than my time on a hard white cross.  Cool webiste btw. His name sounds Dutch.


Yeah my crosses suck too. My best Ao12 for cross only is 8.15. I thought it was interesting to see the expected difference in move count for CN and dual. I'm trying to decide whether to master cross planning based on one colour so that I have smooth turning and no pauses even when 8 moves are needed, or whether to compromise on planning but be able to do it for all colours.

WHat is your motive for training CN? To reduce overall move count, or because you find planning the harder crosses difficult? I find I am struggling to plan past about 4-5 moves because I lose track of where the other edges will end up.


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## MarcelP (Jan 17, 2013)

I could not plan a full cross if my life depended on it. However, looking at the cube and planning out two or three pieces mimimum and then while solving find the remaining and keep track of one corner suits me just fine. I average complete F2L in just sub 20. I guess I average cross about 5 seconds. Let's test that:

Color neutral:

Average of 12: 4.73
1-12 - 5.96 5.15 5.23 (2.84) 5.56 3.47 4.01 3.83 (6.67) 6.46 4.30 3.34


White cross:
Average of 12: 4.27
1-12 - 5.33 (2.42) 3.76 2.59 4.67 4.60 (6.41) 4.34 4.00 5.47 2.94 4.99

Oh wow, I did not see that comming. I thought I was having an advantage of easy crosses on CN. LOL. Well, to answr your question, I train CN because it is great fun. I was getting a bit bored with normal solves. I started Roux training and other stuff to keep motivated. But then I saw the color neutral transition topic which got me enthousiastic. I will stick with it for now. Today my averages are not so good, but I have these flaws with white crosses also.


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## guusrs (Jan 17, 2013)

Lars is Belgian and very well known in our region (-;
I didn't see his site before but for me no new results here, maximum for cross is always 8 moves (Marcel, I said you so!) and perfect executed CN gives you 1 lower move count.
Which is about 0.12 seconds for the fastest cubers in the world (-;


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## MarcelP (Jan 17, 2013)

Ah, the name sounded familiar but I could not place a face with that. Yes, I know you are not a big fan of the color neutral. LOL.. Well, I am on holiday this week and have some time to train more color neutral. I think I will be faster on CN soon enough to compete with my white cross times. I think I have said it before, solving single color only is for pussies!


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## sneaklyfox (Jan 17, 2013)

MarcelP said:


> Ah, the name sounded familiar but I could not place a face with that. Yes, I know you are not a big fan of the color neutral. LOL.. Well, I am on holiday this week and have some time to train more color neutral. I think I will be faster on CN soon enough to compete with my white cross times. I think I have said it before, solving single color only is for pussies!



Sounds like a challenge!


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## MarcelP (Jan 17, 2013)

sneaklyfox said:


> Sounds like a challenge!



Do you doubt my dedication? LOL. Look what I did to my cubes to get rid of that 'white' spot in my brain:







It will be hard, but at least I am willing to give it a few more weeks/months..


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## ender9994 (Jan 17, 2013)

I would be interested to see how fast someone could be if they tried not only being color neutral, but color orientation neutral. Take a couple of extra cubes and sticker them with random colors and color orientations (ex. have a cube with yellow across from blue, a cube with a purple, white, and yellow on adjacent faces... and so on) After work today I might try to make 5 completely random cubes if I can find enough extra stickers laying around and then compare an avg. of 12 of each of them to my normal color scheme. 

-Doug


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## JE007 (Jan 17, 2013)

The cube looks nice!


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## MarcelP (Jan 17, 2013)

Hey Doug, that is really interesting! I am looking forward to your results. My first solve with black instead of white with a black cross took me 45 seconds. LOL I think if all colors are not in their original place it would have been much worse


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## MarcelP (Jan 17, 2013)

JE007 said:


> The cube looks nice!



Yeah, it does. I kind of wanted to try black instead of white for a while. But since I am really dedicated to get CN I thought this might help.


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## sneaklyfox (Jan 17, 2013)

MarcelP said:


> Do you doubt my dedication?



Oh, no I don't doubt your dedication. Just that you called me a "pussy" because I'm not CN.


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## MarcelP (Jan 17, 2013)

sneaklyfox said:


> Oh, no I don't doubt your dedication. Just that you called me a "pussy" because I'm not CN.



Ah, I get it  Well, I would love to see you go CN. You are one of the few people here that I admire a lot. I know you could be true CN since your dedication (looking at OH, Roux, 3 X 3 on 4 X 4 etc) is so great. I remember you post a CN Ao12 in this thread with an average of 27 seconds. You said that was bad because you average 17 seconds. Well, I think the first week you be around 20 seconds.. It took me less than two days to get more than 10 seconds of my CN averages.


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## sneaklyfox (Jan 17, 2013)

MarcelP said:


> Ah, I get it  Well, I would love to see you go CN. You are one of the few people here that I admire a lot. I know you could be true CN since your dedication (looking at OH, Roux, 3 X 3 on 4 X 4 etc) is so great. I remember you post a CN Ao12 in this thread with an average of 27 seconds. You said that was bad because you average 17 seconds. Well, I think the first week you be around 20 seconds.. It took me less than two days to get more than 10 seconds of my CN averages.



Wow, I didn't know. I feel honoured, but the feeling is mutual. 

Well, check me out on the CN transition thread. I just started!


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## mark49152 (Jan 17, 2013)

MarcelP said:


> I could not plan a full cross if my life depended on it. However, looking at the cube and planning out two or three pieces mimimum and then while solving find the remaining and keep track of one corner suits me just fine. I average complete F2L in just sub 20. I guess I average cross about 5 seconds.


Well your cross and F2L are in much better proportion than mine. From speedpicker's analysis of solve breakdowns, cross should be about 12% and the 4 pairs about 50% of solve total, so you are almost perfectly proportioned apart from maybe a fast last layer  My cross is ~8 compared to ~21-22 for slots and ~13 last layer, so my mission for the next couple of weeks is cross boot camp. Any recommendations for good learning or training resources?


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## MarcelP (Jan 17, 2013)

mark49152 said:


> the next couple of weeks is cross boot camp. Any recommendations for good learning or training resources?



Well, I sucked at crosses major. Then I did a full week, crosses only. More than an hour per day. I went from over 10 seconds averages to my current cross times. I guess Badmephisto has a good video as well and the best cross video is from crazybadcuber.


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## mark49152 (Jan 17, 2013)

MarcelP said:


> Well, I sucked at crosses major. Then I did a full week, crosses only. More than an hour per day. I went from over 10 seconds averages to my current cross times


Your dedication is inspirational


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## MarcelP (Jan 18, 2013)

I received my first 6 X 6 two days ago. It was a cheap 13 dollar cube. I believe it is an Eastsheen. Well it's a piece of crap. You need two hands to turn one face. Nevertheless I really enjoyed solving it. It took me over 4 hours to complete the centers. LOL.

anyway, today I did my biggest achievement in my cube carriere:

Blue: * 31.24* 
(29.20) 30.88 29.58 (36.01) 33.27

Red: *29.90* 
(38.61) 27.03 (25.33) 33.93 28.73

Orange:*28.69* 
30.75 25.79 (32.72) (23.32) 29.53

Green: *30.98* 
32.36 (27.61) 29.56 (36.84) 31.01

White:* 27.93* 
30.41 24.10 (22.89) (30.83) 29.27

Yellow: *30.57* 
33.07 30.57 (26.61) (35.65) 28.06

Black: *29.46* 
(27.39) (31.23) 29.71 30.57 28.10

I thought that was pretty awesome. That 31 on Blue could maybe have been some faster as these where not the first timed solves of today.


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## Kattenvriendin (Jan 18, 2013)

Wow.. you are nicely progressing there! Hopefully tomorrow I can graduate from the red.

I got all my big cubes the shengshous, won't regret it, ever (oh save for the 11 that is  ).

There is quite some fun in those big cubes huh!


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## MarcelP (Jan 18, 2013)

Yeah, I am in doubt if I should buy the Shengshou aswell  My Shengshou 4 x 4 and 5 x 5 are flawless.


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## Kattenvriendin (Jan 18, 2013)

And so it begins..... *points at cabinet*

 LOL


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## sneaklyfox (Jan 19, 2013)

MarcelP said:


> Yeah, I am in doubt if I should buy the Shengshou aswell  My Shengshou 4 x 4 and 5 x 5 are flawless.



Which SS4 do you have? v3 or v4? Did you do any mods to it? White or black? Just wondering because I'm thinking of getting those myself. They're not expensive. fasttech has them for just over $13 for both SS4 and SS5 in a package.


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## MarcelP (Jan 19, 2013)

I have the V4. Fasttech has the V3 SS4 and SSS5 in one package. I do not know how the V3 is. My V4 is perfect. I am thinking about buying an extra V4 to do the mod that Cubyx recently did (as seen on his facebook).


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## Kattenvriendin (Jan 19, 2013)

Yeah I was thinking of doing that to to mine. First I have other things to shave off (like ice in my freezer, everything content wise is now outside LOLOL!)


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## MarcelP (Jan 19, 2013)

Yeah, pretty cold here too. It's -8 celcius in my garden.


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## lcsbiffi (Jan 19, 2013)

That's why I love Brazil, it's never that cold here.  Today is 20ºC, and that is a cold day for us lol.


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## Kattenvriendin (Jan 19, 2013)

LOL at least this weather is handy for these kinds of jobs that I am doing. Throw sh*t outside, clean, throw back in freezer.

It's not something I'd do in the summer


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## MarcelP (Jan 19, 2013)

lcsbiffi said:


> That's why I love Brazil, it's never that cold here.  Today is 20ºC, and that is a cold day for us lol.




LOL 20ºC cold? Last winter I was skating with my son and it was -22 at 11 o clock in the morning. Still the sun was shining and it felt ok.


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## lcsbiffi (Jan 19, 2013)

MarcelP said:


> LOL 20ºC cold? Last winter I was skating with my son and it was -22 at 11 o clock in the morning. Still the sun was shining and it felt ok.



omg, that's too cold. We never have sub-0 temperatures here.


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## MarcelP (Jan 20, 2013)

Today a Ao100 color neutral. I thought it going very bad. Lot's of 30+ solves. But when I finished I looked up when I had my first sub 32 Ao100 and that was just December 14th.. But then I think I had quite a few white crosses in there. The Ao12 of 26.61 must have been 80% white crosses. So all in all, not bad..


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## MarcelP (Jan 20, 2013)

Aaarggghhh. Nobody told me before I signed on to this hobby that I was going to have to deal with this kind of stuff..


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## ThomasJE (Jan 20, 2013)

What brand is that 6x6? And yes; all even numbered cubes are a nightmare to repair; mainly because of all the internal pieces. I found that out when my Shengshou 4x4 popped before I had to go play golf.


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## Kattenvriendin (Jan 20, 2013)

Oh that is not that bad.  You can get it back in order  Just tighten it a bit more, that should sort that out.

What happened to cause that?


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## MarcelP (Jan 20, 2013)

Just a normal turn caused that. I tried to fix it for 15 minutes and then threw it out in the trash  does this happen to shengshou also? If yes, I will stick with 4 x 4 and 5 x 5 then.


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## Kattenvriendin (Jan 20, 2013)

Aw geez.. pick it out please and send it to me in an envelope or something? (not kidding)


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## omer (Jan 20, 2013)

MarcelP said:


> Just a normal turn caused that. I tried to fix it for 15 minutes and then threw it out in the trash  does this happen to shengshou also? If yes, I will stick with 4 x 4 and 5 x 5 then.


You threw it to the trash :0? Why didn't you look for a YouTube tutorial on how to fix it?


Kattenvriendin said:


> Aw geez.. pick it out please and send it to me in an envelope or something? (not kidding)


Lol that's what I wanted to say... I would have payed for the delivery and the cube...


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## Kattenvriendin (Jan 20, 2013)

Hey Marcel, just graduated on red *grin* 

Best average of 12: 47.98
1-12 - 45.00 49.75 47.00 49.57 51.37 49.26 (51.45) 41.17 (40.57) 47.95 50.96 47.77


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## MarcelP (Jan 21, 2013)

omer said:


> Why didn't you look for a YouTube tutorial on how to fix it?



I did, appearantly there are no guides on Eastsheen 6 X 6 on Youtube.



Kattenvriendin said:


> Hey Marcel, just graduated on red *grin*
> 
> Best average of 12: 47.98
> 1-12 - 45.00 49.75 47.00 49.57 51.37 49.26 (51.45) 41.17 (40.57) 47.95 50.96 47.77



Awesome!! What color is next?


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## Kattenvriendin (Jan 21, 2013)

Green is next, but I might learn a new PLL algo first. 



I'd say do pick it out still.. poor cube. I know I can get it back together


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## MarcelP (Jan 21, 2013)

Kattenvriendin said:


> I'd say do pick it out still.. poor cube. I know I can get it back together



I will check tonight after work if I can find it..


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## Goosly (Jan 21, 2013)

Eastsheen? I know their 4x4 and 5x5 used to suck, have they improved anything on their cubes recently?
If you can't fix a popped cube, just keep them in a bag and bring them to a competition, there's always crazy people (like me) willing to fix them for you


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## MarcelP (Jan 25, 2013)

Goosly said:


> Eastsheen? I know their 4x4 and 5x5 used to suck, have they improved anything on their cubes recently?
> If you can't fix a popped cube, just keep them in a bag and bring them to a competition, there's always crazy people (like me) willing to fix them for you



I am sorry, it was not an Eatsheen but Diansheng. I will bring it with me to the next comp.


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## MarcelP (Jan 25, 2013)

Ok, first 12 solves of today Color neutral:

Average:* 32.20*
1-12 - 27.56 (26.89) 37.61 36.50 (37.73) 34.16 32.58 30.73 29.56 33.23 31.05 29.05

Then 12 on white cross:
Average: *28.96*
32.37 24.77 (32.72) 31.02 26.02 31.72 (23.44) 27.44 28.08 30.17 30.00 28.04

I will do an Ao100 later today when I am finished working. I will post the results. I will give it one more week, if I still average (Ao100) around 31-ish I go back to white/yellow crosses.


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## Kattenvriendin (Jan 25, 2013)

My experience with diansheng is very positive, after lubing they fly hihi.

Curious to see that cube alright, good thing you're bringing it with.  :tu


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## MarcelP (Jan 25, 2013)

Instead of an Ao100 CN I decided to split them into a Ao50 CN and Ao50 White cross. Here are the results

Ao50 CN:

Mean: *31.16*
Average: 31.02
Best time: 22.85
Median: 30.81
Worst time: 45.97
Standard deviation: 4.88

Best average of 5:* 27.84*
37-41 - (22.85) 28.08 (32.59) 26.53 28.92

Best average of 12: *28.89* Unfortunatly had quite a few white crosses in these best Ao12.. 
37-48 - (22.85) 28.08 32.59 26.53 28.92 27.80 (41.83) 27.27 34.02 27.70 31.47 24.54


Ao50 White cross:

Mean: * 28.63*
Average: 28.62
Best time: *22.85* LOL, same as previous 50
Median: 28.23
Worst time: 34.96
Standard deviation: 3.32

Best average of 5: *25.69*
23-27 - 27.27 23.44 (23.14) (27.46) 26.36

Best average of 12: *27.00*
20-31 - 30.69 (32.81) 26.61 27.27 23.44 (23.14) 27.46 26.36 27.85 24.81 31.19 24.29

So, in best Ao12 there is 2.89 seconds difference and in 50 the difference 2.53. I think that is quite allright I guess, would have loved to see a smaller difference however.. Especially since I do not practice white and try to avoind them in picking cross color when training.


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## moralsh (Jan 25, 2013)

MarcelP said:


> So, in best Ao12 there is 2.89 seconds difference



1.89


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## MarcelP (Jan 25, 2013)

moralsh said:


> 1.89



Ooops, calculating without a calculator is not my best side appearantly


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## kunparekh18 (Jan 25, 2013)

It still amazes me how an Introduction thread can have ~850 posts. 

Nice improvement by the way. Keep up the good work! Best of luck with Colour Neutral.


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## omer (Jan 25, 2013)

kunparekh18 said:


> It still amazes me how an Introduction thread can have ~850 posts.
> 
> Nice improvement by the way. Keep up the good work! Best of luck with Colour Neutral.


It's hasn't been an introduction thread for a long time, it has become "Marcel's Thread".


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## kunparekh18 (Jan 25, 2013)

omer said:


> It's hasn't been an introduction thread for a long time, it has become "Marcel's Thread".



Haha, true. I love the idea of having a separate thread for everything about yourself - times, experiences, etc. rather than posting times in a thread where everyone can post, like the Accomplishment Thread for example.

If you want mine, the link is in my sig!


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## MarcelP (Feb 1, 2013)

Today I nearly broke my PB with a green cross:

5. *17.08* U B2 R2 U' L2 U' R2 L2 U2 L2 B2 R' F' R U B D2 L U2 L F

I can't reproduce it.. not even close.. I don't know how I did it but it was a full solve. To bad that the camera was recharging..... ;(


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## Gordon (Feb 1, 2013)

Cool. And even on a 'not-white' cross. Congrats!

With my single PB's it's the same. After the solve, I never know how I did it and how it could have been so fast. Especially when the previous and next solves are nearly ten seconds slower...


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## MarcelP (Feb 1, 2013)

Gordon said:


> Especially when the previous and next solves are nearly ten seconds slower...



I really lost my cool there. Next solve was 43 seconds on a white cross LOL..


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## Kattenvriendin (Feb 1, 2013)

Mailbox alert haha


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## MarcelP (Feb 2, 2013)

I just did a great Ao50 color neutral. I am going to try to finish as a sub 30 Ao100..


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## Kattenvriendin (Feb 2, 2013)

Wow.. well done! That looks great already


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## MarcelP (Feb 2, 2013)

Whooooohoooo! First sub 30 Ao100 Color neutral

Best time was a green cross

91. 21.43 L2 F2 R2 U' F2 L2 F2 U' F2 D2 U L' B' R' U R' F' D' R2 F L U2

Almost lost my cool in the last 10 solves.. But still finished easily sub 30 






EDIT: I just saw that I almost broke my Ao12 white cross PB.. Wow


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## sneaklyfox (Feb 2, 2013)

Nice going!


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## lcsbiffi (Feb 2, 2013)

Nicely done. I really envy your persistance on color neutral


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## Kattenvriendin (Feb 2, 2013)

Well done!!


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## MarcelP (Feb 2, 2013)

lcsbiffi said:


> Nicely done. I really envy your persistance on color neutral



Thanks! It is kind of hard at some times not to stop training CN and just go back at where you are good at. But I simply kept going for CN because I find it a lot more fun then solving just that damn boring white cross  Right now I feel like I am true color neutral.



sneaklyfox said:


> Nice going!



How about you? Do you think you will stay CN?



Kattenvriendin said:


> Well done!!


And you? How is you transition to CN going?


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## Kattenvriendin (Feb 2, 2013)

I have been training on the first 4 colors a bit to avoid forgetting one as I insert the other, so to speak. Gotta love memory issues but hey I am doing it! lol

Currently working on green and blue will be the last one to start on. It'll be a while yet, but that is ok.

Hopefully there will be an event somewhere near me again, 1.5 hours worth of driving is stiff, and train prices for that distance are horrid  Both in Belgium are too far away already. HRMPH.


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## ThomasJE (Feb 2, 2013)

Nice! I see a signature change soon...


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## sneaklyfox (Feb 3, 2013)

MarcelP said:


> How about you? Do you think you will stay CN?



I'm not sure yet. I will finish the month first before deciding. I think for me, I don't mind solving the same white cross over and over. (Maybe yellow/white... even if I decide not to do CN, I would probably stay dual colour.) Even though after a few days of training on each colour and my times are decent, I think I have more trouble changing to a different colour from one solve to the next. Marcel, do you find that difficult? On the days that I train more than one colour, I sometimes forget which colour cross I was doing and that confuses me sometimes during F2L. Every solve being a different colour isn't the same as the same colour for 5 days in a row. I think I may also have to explore the X-Cross before I decide to stick with CN or leave it. If I can learn X-Cross and it happens fairly often when being CN then it has much more appeal to me. Right now, I only really know the theory behind X-Cross. I don't really practice it.


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## MarcelP (Feb 3, 2013)

sneaklyfox said:


> I think I have more trouble changing to a different colour from one solve to the next. Marcel, do you find that difficult?



No, not at all. I do think however that this requires more focus. So when I am tired after a days work I have more troubles making mistakes compared to when I am rested in the weekend. I also notice that solving CN requires a longer warmup. My mind needs to get adjusted to the filters before I can start doing a good Ao12. 

I am trying to learn Xcrosses. I have a cube stripped the stickers all but a white Xcross. I do random 6 - 8 moves on the solved cubes and then try to see if I can solve it within 6 - 8 moves. Right now I need waaaaay more time to figure the solution and then even I make more than 8 moves. So this Xcross thing is really hard for me. And I am not quite confinced that when I reconize the solution within 15 seconds, it still not faster than doing a normal cross and do the first pair normally. My cross times average 4 seconds. An Xcross takes me well over 10 seconds right now..


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## Schmidt (Feb 3, 2013)

@sneaklyfox
Cross color is always the opp. of your U center sticker


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## sneaklyfox (Feb 3, 2013)

Schmidt said:


> @sneaklyfox
> Cross color is always the opp. of your U center sticker



Really?? I never knew that!


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## MarcelP (Feb 8, 2013)

Today I was sooooo close by breaking my Ao12 PB...

Ao100 went nice but I was not sub 30 untill around 90 






Here are some of the solves:

69. 25.58 D2 R2 U' L2 U2 L2 F2 D F2 U2 R2 F U' R' D2 U2 R U B D R' D
70. 28.23 D L2 D2 B2 F2 D R2 U2 B2 D' B2 R U F' D B' F L F L2 D U2
71. 30.86 U2 B2 L2 B2 R2 U L2 D' B2 D' U L' U2 F' R D U2 F U' B' D2 U2
72. 28.47 F2 U L2 B2 F2 D' R2 F2 D' L2 U F L' B L B' U L' F' U' L' U'
73. 25.76 B2 F2 L2 U2 B2 U L2 U B2 U F2 R' F D2 F D' F U' B U2 F2

[video=youtube_share;jcMvBFlKEDM]http://youtu.be/jcMvBFlKEDM[/video]


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## MarcelP (Feb 14, 2013)

I just did an Ao50 color neutral. The force was very strong today. Even a sub 20 in there. Haven't had these in a long time 

7. 18.04 F2 R2 D L2 F2 D' L2 D2 B2 R2 U' F L' D L U2 B' U R' B2 L2
(btw, can not reproduce myself. The best I could get was on white cross 23 something)






EDIT: Holy crap another one: 55. 18.32 U2 B2 D R2 L2 D2 F2 R2 D' B2 U R' F2 D' U' F' U R' B' L D (on white unfortunatly  )


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## Kattenvriendin (Feb 14, 2013)

Wow! Well done!


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## sneaklyfox (Feb 14, 2013)

MarcelP said:


> I just did an Ao50 color neutral. The force was very strong today. Even a sub 20 in there. Haven't had these in a long time
> 
> 7. 18.04 F2 R2 D L2 F2 D' L2 D2 B2 R2 U' F L' D L U2 B' U R' B2 L2
> (btw, can not reproduce myself. The best I could get was on white cross 23 something)
> ...



Interesting. I would have done the second scramble on green as it looked like the easier cross.

Oh yeah, and are you changing your signature? I see a best Ao12 of 26.31...


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## MarcelP (Feb 14, 2013)

sneaklyfox said:


> Oh yeah, and are you changing your signature? I see a best Ao12 of 26.31...



Whooohoo! I did not realize I broke my Ao12 PB. A milestone! That also prooves how much I pay attention to the fastest Ao12 LOL



sneaklyfox said:


> Interesting. I would have done the second scramble on green as it looked like the easier cross.



Yeah, the green cross was much easier... I totally missed that one. After the scramble I saw two connected edges (green on blue and red on orange ) and that is for me almost a 100% go so that I do not look further for crosses.


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## MarcelP (Feb 14, 2013)

Oh wow.. I finished Ao100 and broke my Ao12 again but also my Ao100!! WHOOOOHOOOO


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## Kattenvriendin (Feb 14, 2013)

YAYYYYY we're both on a roll LOL Congrats!!


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## sneaklyfox (Feb 14, 2013)

MarcelP said:


> Oh wow.. I finished Ao100 and broke my Ao12 again but also my Ao100!! WHOOOOHOOOO



Awesomeness! Signature edit can't keep up with you, haha.


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## MarcelP (Feb 14, 2013)

LOL, yes Kattenvriendin also had a few Ao12 changes today... I feel euforic (spelling?) today..


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## sneaklyfox (Feb 14, 2013)

MarcelP said:


> LOL, yes Kattenvriendin also had a few Ao12 changes today... I feel euforic (spelling?) today..



I believe it is "euphoric".


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## Kattenvriendin (Feb 14, 2013)

Euphoric it is!


And oh yeah, definitely feels goooooood.  I have lost the cool for now though, peak has gone.. so I stopped timing again and am going to do some slow down solves again 

But sub40 yep, at least 4 times in the past.. 24hours or so.


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## lcsbiffi (Feb 14, 2013)

Yay, you guys are all doing great :O


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## mark49152 (Feb 14, 2013)

Congrats! Everyone's doing so great - except me! My fingers are old and stiff...


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## MarcelP (Feb 15, 2013)

Hey Mark, my fingers are also stiff. I am turning 44 this year. But actually my times have improved by turning slower. I can turn faster but then I need to find pairs after inserting. Right now I find pairs while inserting the previous. Btw, what are your times and how long have you been cubing and how much time do you spend every day? I have been cubing since May 2012, I have not skipped a day without touching a cube (true sign of addiction  ) and I do at least 100 - 200 slow solves per day.


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## Gordon (Feb 15, 2013)

I see I should practice more. If it comes high, I do 100 - 200 solves per week...


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## MarcelP (Feb 15, 2013)

Gordon said:


> I see I should practice more. If it comes high, I do 100 - 200 solves per week...



Cubing does not come natural to me, I need to practice a lot to make the slightes improvement.


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## Kattenvriendin (Feb 15, 2013)

But when it happens we're super happy!


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## mark49152 (Feb 15, 2013)

I've been cubing since Oct 2012 and my times are about 45-50. I practise most days although time is often limited by work and other commitments. Cubing's my way of settling the mind and unwinding stress  I'm also in my mid-40s.

So far this year I shaved a second or two off my PLLs thanks to Jskyler's excellent videos and a lot of idle PLL drilling while concentrating on other things. But F2L is where I'm slowest so that's what I practise most. I got it down to about 20 secs (excluding cross) by slow solving, blindfold, metronome, etc, but am stuck there and still seem to spend lots of time fumbling or frantically searching for pieces.

I guess I was expecting it would be quite easy to get sub-40 and then sub-30 would be a challenge.


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## MarcelP (Feb 15, 2013)

mark49152 said:


> I've been cubing since Oct 2012 and my times are about 45-50. I practise most days although time is often limited by work and other commitments. Cubing's my way of settling the mind and unwinding stress  I'm also in my mid-40s.
> 
> So far this year I shaved a second or two off my PLLs thanks to Jskyler's excellent videos and a lot of idle PLL drilling while concentrating on other things. But F2L is where I'm slowest so that's what I practise most. I got it down to about 20 secs (excluding cross) by slow solving, blindfold, metronome, etc, but am stuck there and still seem to spend lots of time fumbling or frantically searching for pieces.
> 
> I guess I was expecting it would be quite easy to get sub-40 and then sub-30 would be a challenge.



When I was averaging around your times I made this training video. I was sub 40 real soon after training like this:

http://youtu.be/hJdtWvsk_vE

I literally did nothing but these kind of solves for a week or so.


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## MarcelP (Feb 15, 2013)

I did an another A0100 today to see if yesterday was a fluke.

Mean: 28.91
Average: 28.91
Best time: 19.87
Median: 28.40
Worst time: 38.01
Standard deviation: 3.89

Best average of 5: 25.72
23-27 - 23.46 (21.20) 25.55 28.14 (33.98)

Best average of 12: 27.05
27-68 - 25.77 (19.87) 26.41 29.93 30.13 22.86 (31.96) 28.14 27.47 26.18 28.40 25.18

Very nice times. I guess I am true sub 29 on color neutral 

Around at the end of that best Ao12 I turned on the camera. The point is when I turn on the camera my hands take over and start to rush. I don't know why. Freaking annoying. Neverther less the Ao5 that followed was quite allright for someone my speed:

70. 26.18 B2 R2 D' L2 U' L2 U' B2 R2 B2 D B' R2 U2 R F R2 D F U2 L U
71. 28.40 R2 B2 D2 R2 U' R2 D' F2 U B2 U2 F' D L' U2 B' L U2 F' U' L' D2
72. 25.18 B2 D' R2 U2 F2 U' R2 F2 U' R2 B2 L F' L' D L' F D B2 D R'
73. 28.96 F2 L2 U F2 U F2 R2 B2 U2 L2 U L F D' B D2 B' R2 D' L' B U2
74. 25.42 B2 U' F2 R2 U' B2 F2 D R2 F2 D' L' D2 R' F R2 D' R' F D2 U'

[video=youtube_share;fFscF68YoDM]http://youtu.be/fFscF68YoDM[/video]


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## Kattenvriendin (Feb 15, 2013)

Just did those 5 scrambles.. if you count in the fact that I see porcelain up close today I didn't do half bad at all!

Best average of 5: 37.51
1-5 - 40.73 (43.26) 37.86 33.94 (30.70)

1. 40.73 B2 R2 D' L2 U' L2 U' B2 R2 B2 D B' R2 U2 R F R2 D F U2 L U
2. 43.26 R2 B2 D2 R2 U' R2 D' F2 U B2 U2 F' D L' U2 B' L U2 F' U' L' D2
3. 37.86 B2 D' R2 U2 F2 U' R2 F2 U' R2 B2 L F' L' D L' F D B2 D R'
4. 33.94 F2 L2 U F2 U F2 R2 B2 U2 L2 U L F D' B D2 B' R2 D' L' B U2
5. 30.70 B2 U' F2 R2 U' B2 F2 D R2 F2 D' L' D2 R' F R2 D' R' F D2 U'


Sign of true addiction.. continuing to cube even though you are sick as a dog LOL


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## MarcelP (Feb 15, 2013)

Kattenvriendin said:


> Sign of true addiction.. continuing to cube even though you are sick as a dog LOL



LOL, maybe you will find the healing force of cubing..


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## Kattenvriendin (Feb 15, 2013)

Hahaha who knows!!!


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## omer (Feb 15, 2013)

MarcelP said:


> When I was averaging around your times I made this training video. I was sub 40 real soon after training like this:
> 
> http://youtu.be/hJdtWvsk_vE
> 
> I literally did nothing but these kind of solves for a week or so.


Is this still the way you would solve those pairs? Like in this video? Or are you aware that there are much easier and faster ways to solve those pairs?


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## MarcelP (Feb 15, 2013)

omer said:


> Is this still the way you would solve those pairs?



No, that is when I just started to learn F2L. Now I do it in better ways


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## mark49152 (Feb 15, 2013)

MarcelP said:


> When I was averaging around your times I made this training video. I was sub 40 real soon after training like this:
> 
> http://youtu.be/hJdtWvsk_vE
> 
> I literally did nothing but these kind of solves for a week or so.


Looks a bit like one-sided ZZ. I experimented with ZZ for a while using F2L rather than block building and found that some awkward cases don't occur whereas some other cases are more awkward to solve. Generally I don't think my problem is how to solve the cases, it's finding the pairs. 

Just got an 18.3 ao12 for F2L tonight. So, complaining about slow improvement works as a psychological tactic!


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## Schmidt (Feb 15, 2013)

mark49152 said:


> So, complaining about slow improvement works as a psychological tactic!



I suck at cubing [sits back and wait for the effect to kick in]


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## mark49152 (Feb 15, 2013)

Schmidt said:


> I suck at cubing [sits back and wait for the effect to kick in]


Yeah my crosses are dreadful and still just as slow as when I started (reaches for cube...)


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## MarcelP (Feb 16, 2013)

mark49152 said:


> it's finding the pairs.



Yes, I know what you mean. When I started out learning F2L I had an average of 1.30 (one minute thirty). I could take up to ten seconds to find a pair. Simply because I did not know what was a pair of a slot and what might be an edge that belongs in the U layer. Training like I did in the video really speeded me up on the recognition of the pairs.


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## uniacto (Feb 16, 2013)

90 pages and still going strong. very cool. 
Also, isn't it awesome to look back at you old videos and see how much you've improved? It give you a nice feeling inside haha. Or at least it does with me xD


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## MarcelP (Feb 16, 2013)

uniacto said:


> Also, isn't it awesome to look back at you old videos and see how much you've improved? It give you a nice feeling inside haha. Or at least it does with me xD



Yeah, I have never looked back at the old video's but I remember clearly doing one minute solves and still feel fast LOL.. This years goal is getting sub 25. Being sub 30 now does indeed give me a great feeling inside.


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## kunparekh18 (Feb 16, 2013)

*Re: Hi, Marcel from Holland here*



MarcelP said:


> Yeah, I have never looked back at the old video's but I remember clearly doing one minute solves and still feel fast LOL.. This years goal is getting sub 25. Being sub 30 now does indeed give me a great feeling inside.



You still have a year! You'll achieve 15s averages easily in that time  

Sent from my A75 using Tapatalk 2


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## uniacto (Feb 16, 2013)

MarcelP said:


> Yeah, I have never looked back at the old video's but I remember clearly doing one minute solves and still feel fast LOL.. This years goal is getting sub 25. Being sub 30 now does indeed give me a great feeling inside.



psh, at the rate you're going, you can get sub 25 before summer starts.


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## MarcelP (Feb 16, 2013)

kunparekh18 said:


> You still have a year! You'll achieve 15s averages easily in that time
> Sent from my A75 using Tapatalk 2



Thanks, but I highly doubt it.. I think my speed will not take me further than being around the 20 seconds mark no matter how hard I try. 



uniacto said:


> psh, at the rate you're going, you can get sub 25 before summer starts.



That would be very cool 


So, I have been working on my OLL's. Status is 41/57

Yesterday I learned:

R U R' U (R' F R F') U2 (R' F R F')






R U2 R2 F R F' U2 M' U R U' r'





M U R U R' U' M' R' F R F'






And now I can *not* do *Rb* PLL any more:

R' U2 R U2 R' F R U R' U' R' F' R2






I have been doing that PLL for 6 months and I can not perform it today even if my life depended on it.. LOL oh man I hate learning new algs..


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## kunparekh18 (Feb 16, 2013)

*Re: Hi, Marcel from Holland here*

Nice! Learn at least the dot case OLLs. The rest, even if you forget, you can solve with 2Look. And, there is also a way to avoid dot cases if you don't know already 

Sent from my A75 using Tapatalk 2


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## Kattenvriendin (Feb 16, 2013)

LOL that is why I only learn one algorithm at a time. Just learned the N(b) pll


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## MarcelP (Feb 16, 2013)

Kattenvriendin said:


> LOL that is why I only learn one algorithm at a time. Just learned the N(b) pll



I learned that one as my last PLL. I still hate it. It is probably my slowest. What Alg do you use? I use:







(z) (U' R D' R2' U R' D)2 (z')


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## mark49152 (Feb 16, 2013)

Yeah I hate that one too, and Na. I use the same alg but on LUR. What I really hate though, is G-perms. The execution isn't that hard, but they are all so similar that half the time I end up doing the wrong one.

Good to see you're learning the dot OLLs! I learned those recently and quite enjoy them. It's satisfying getting what used to be an "oh no" case and then solving OLL in one step.


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## Gordon (Feb 16, 2013)

MarcelP said:


> I learned that one as my last PLL. I still hate it. It is probably my slowest. What Alg do you use? I use:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I do two times: (R' U L' U2 R U' L) but it also takes a lot of time...


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## MarcelP (Feb 16, 2013)

mark49152 said:


> Yeah I hate that one too, and Na. I use the same alg but on LUR. What I really hate though, is G-perms. The execution isn't that hard, but they are all so similar that half the time I end up doing the wrong one.
> 
> Good to see you're learning the dot OLLs! I learned those recently and quite enjoy them. It's satisfying getting what used to be an "oh no" case and then solving OLL in one step.



I actually like the Na. I use (z) (U R' D R2 U' R D')2 (z') after finding it on YouTube. I can perform it quite quick (around 3 secs I think). About the G-perms.. Oh man.. it took me forever to overcome what you are experiencing now. But now, I never make mistakes with them and it's all just muscle memory. They are slow (compared to others like the T-perm) but it beats a two look PLL any day..


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## MarcelP (Feb 16, 2013)

Gordon said:


> I do two times: (R' U L' U2 R U' L) but it also takes a lot of time...



I have used that one quite some time. I think I will start using that one again as I really really hate the one I am using now.


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## mark49152 (Feb 16, 2013)

Yeah I don't find the Gs hard and there are some nice finger tricks to make them faster. I really like this one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=74Af8Is8e20

Actually it was trying to do them faster that screwed me up. I mix them up more now that I start them from different angles rather than always having headlights to the left a la Badmephisto.

Your N perms look interesting, I will give them a go. They remind me of the E perm which is one of my favourite algs, thanks to Jskyler's vid teaching me how to not fumble it


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## moralsh (Feb 16, 2013)

I do (R U R' U) (R U R' F') (R U R' U') (R' F R2 U') R' U2 R U' R' for the mirror case so it's

(L' U' L U') (L' U' L F) (L' U' L U) (L F' L2 U) L U2 L' U L it's way longer but it's easier for me, and yes it's also my least favorite pll (and my slowest)

edit: Before learning it I Used to do Jb U2 Jb U which is not as bad as it looks


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## Kattenvriendin (Feb 16, 2013)

MarcelP said:


> I have used that one quite some time. I think I will start using that one again as I really really hate the one I am using now.



(R' U L' U2 R U' L) two times


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## Cubenovice (Feb 16, 2013)

moralsh said:


> I do (R U R' U) (R U R' F') (R U R' U') (R' F R2 U') R' U2 R U' R' for the mirror case so it's
> 
> (L' U' L U') (L' U' L F) (L' U' L U) (L F' L2 U) L U2 L' U L



I use these too
Note it is just a R U R' U set up into J-perm, AUF and put the air back in


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## mark49152 (Feb 16, 2013)

Verdict on your Na alg (z) (U R' D R2 U' R D')2 (z') - awesome! How do you execute it? Seems to work for me with just one regrip while doing the U', then I do the UD' at the same time, and the final D' with my thumb. Flows very nicely. Thanks! Shame it only comes up 1 in 72


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## MarcelP (Feb 16, 2013)

mark49152 said:


> Verdict on your Na alg (z) (U R' D R2 U' R D')2 (z') - awesome! How do you execute it?



Like this. I tried to film a slow execution:

[video=youtube_share;E7_dxNRIS3Y]http://youtu.be/E7_dxNRIS3Y[/video]


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## Kattenvriendin (Feb 16, 2013)

*goes download and put on slow mo slow mo*

*giggle*


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## sneaklyfox (Feb 16, 2013)

Wow, so many regrips. I use the same alg but R2 opposite direction (like R2 instead of R2') and use middle finger for the R and left ring finger for both D and D'.

Ok, ok... I did a video...
[video=youtube_share;fr74DQy4tWU]http://youtu.be/fr74DQy4tWU[/video]


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## MarcelP (Feb 16, 2013)

sneaklyfox said:


> Wow, so many regrips. I use the same alg but R2 opposite direction (like R2 instead of R2') and use middle finger for the R and left ring finger for both D and D'.
> 
> Ok, ok... I did a video...
> [video=youtube_share;fr74DQy4tWU]http://youtu.be/fr74DQy4tWU[/video]



Wow... that looks so fast... I will have to re-learn this one LOL


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## Kattenvriendin (Feb 16, 2013)

*delete's Marcel's vid en downloads this one*

LOL


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## MarcelP (Feb 16, 2013)

Later... when I grow up and become world champion these video's might be worth something.. so, do not just delete them )


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## MarcelP (Feb 17, 2013)

First 12 solves of the day without warm up.. Lovely:

Mean: 26.85
Standard deviation: 2.17
Best Time: 21.84
Worst Time: 30.15

Best average of 5: 25.91
5-9 - (21.84) 27.17 24.67 (28.73) 25.90

Best average of 12: 27.03
1-12 - 24.81 28.07 27.64 27.73 (21.84) 27.17 24.67 28.73 25.90 (30.15) 28.93 26.60


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## lcsbiffi (Feb 17, 2013)

*Re: Hi, Marcel from Holland here*



MarcelP said:


> First 12 solves of the day without warm up.. Lovely:
> 
> Mean: 26.85
> Standard deviation: 2.17
> ...



Do another ao12 now that you're warmed up  those were great times

Enviado de meu GT-I9300 usando o Tapatalk 2


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## MarcelP (Feb 17, 2013)

I did a complete Ao100 of 29 something.. Those first 12 where the fastest. I tried to film a few solves now but the magic has gone for today LOL.


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## mark49152 (Feb 18, 2013)

sneaklyfox said:


> Ok, ok... I did a video...


Great videos, thanks! Na perm is my new favourite PLL . Sneaklyfox, what do you do for Nb?


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## sneaklyfox (Feb 18, 2013)

mark49152 said:


> Great videos, thanks! Na perm is my new favourite PLL . Sneaklyfox, what do you do for Nb?



Nb perm:
R' U R U' R' F' U' F R U R' U' R U' f R f'
This is the one I currently use but actually I hate it and it's my least favourite PLL.

I'm thinking of switching, maybe to this one:
R' U R U' R' F' U' F R U R' F R' F' R U' R


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## SpeedSolve (Feb 18, 2013)

Still loving watching you improve Marcel. Keep it going!


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## mark49152 (Feb 20, 2013)

Here's a video of Na with the regrip just before parallel U+D'. At 6:55: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EtkRnpGMR50


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## MarcelP (Feb 20, 2013)

SpeedSolve said:


> Still loving watching you improve Marcel. Keep it going!


Thanks! I appreciate it.


mark49152 said:


> Here's a video of Na with the regrip just before parallel U+D'. At 6:55: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EtkRnpGMR50


Nice video. Wish I was that fast. Anyone care to reconstruct the other N-perm at 7:21 ?


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## mark49152 (Feb 20, 2013)

Yes it's the one that Sneaklyfox hates:
R' U R U' R' F' U' F R U R' U' R U' f R f'

I think this is one of the better PLL videos. I quite like many of his fingertricks and flows, but it's hard work without the algs annotated...


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## sneaklyfox (Feb 20, 2013)

I've watched a couple of Kaozty's videos. I like them but yeah, it really needs the algs annotated.


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## MarcelP (Feb 20, 2013)

mark49152 said:


> Yes it's the one that Sneaklyfox hates:
> R' U R U' R' F' U' F R U R' U' R U' f R f'
> 
> I think this is one of the better PLL videos. I quite like many of his fingertricks and flows, but it's hard work without the algs annotated...



I can see why. I can't even execute it slow.. LOL


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## MarcelP (Feb 20, 2013)

After seeing the last video of Gordon from Switzerland I ordered a similar set of stickers. I must say, I like them a lot! I am going to time an Ao100 with this one tomorrow.


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## Kattenvriendin (Feb 20, 2013)

Wow.. I'd have to see those in real life though.. the orange and red are (for me) a bit too close to each other. But otherwise: NICE!


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## mark49152 (Feb 20, 2013)

sneaklyfox said:


> I've watched a couple of Kaozty's videos. I like them but yeah, it really needs the algs annotated.


His Jb is awesome. Even I can sub-3 this, and I'm old and slow. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDH6xEmZ2cg


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## MarcelP (Feb 20, 2013)

mark49152 said:


> His Jb is awesome. Even I can sub-3 this, and I'm old and slow. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDH6xEmZ2cg



R U R' F' R U R' U' R' F R2 U' R'

Yeah! I have a fast Jb alg already. But I might change it to his.. I definitely going to check his G-perms. I have one G-perm that needs to be waaaay faster.


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## Username (Feb 20, 2013)

MarcelP said:


> R U R' F' R U R' U' R' F R2 U' R'
> 
> Yeah! I have a fast Jb alg already. But I might change it to his.. I definitely going to check his G-perms. I have one G-perm that needs to be waaaay faster.



That Jb is crazy fast. If I was you, I wouldn't change it

E: I tried it, got 1.33 (Probably my fastest PLL)


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## MarcelP (Feb 20, 2013)

Anyone care to reconstruct the G perm at 2:30 in http://www.youtube.com/watch?annota...&feature=iv&src_vid=aDH6xEmZ2cg&v=1zYQv0uZD8s


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## Username (Feb 20, 2013)

MarcelP said:


> Anyone care to reconstruct the G perm at 2:30 in http://www.youtube.com/watch?annota...&feature=iv&src_vid=aDH6xEmZ2cg&v=1zYQv0uZD8s



They are in the video description


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## MarcelP (Feb 20, 2013)

Thanks! I did not see that


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## mark49152 (Feb 20, 2013)

MarcelP said:


> But I might change it to his.. I definitely going to check his G-perms. I have one G-perm that needs to be waaaay faster.


Yeah I have been working on my G perms too. Try this as an alternative to the fingering in Kaozty's vid at 2:30. I use ring rather than middle finger, and it stays on the corner piece all the way through.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=74Af8Is8e20
Or 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=od_SIMMTUG4


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## MarcelP (Feb 21, 2013)

My first Ao12 on 4 X 4 ever..

Mean: 5:06.23
Average: 5:06.33
Best time: 3:52.65
Median: 4:56.37
Worst time: 6:18.80
Standard deviation: 45.24

Best average of 5: 4:40.42
5-9 - 4:22.56 4:58.07 (6:18.80) 4:40.64 (3:52.65)

Best average of 12: 5:06.33
1-12 - 6:11.84 5:59.69 4:38.70 4:54.67 4:22.56 4:58.07 (6:18.80) 4:40.64 (3:52.65) 5:43.33 4:23.68 5:10.11

The 3.52 is my PB


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## kunparekh18 (Feb 21, 2013)

MarcelP said:


> My first Ao12 on 4 X 4 ever..
> 
> Mean: 5:06.23
> Average: 5:06.33
> ...



Nice! Do you use Reduction?


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## MarcelP (Feb 21, 2013)

Yep, I think I do.. White center first, yellow center, other centers, edge pairing, 3 X3 on 4 X 4..


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## Kattenvriendin (Feb 21, 2013)

Yeah that is how I do it as well. 

Pay attention that you don't hold the cube the wrong way when centering the rest though. I did that a few times and OH MAN what a pain in the tush that is when you start the 3x3 phase ROFL. 

First you put in a pair, then the nex.. uh.. huh what.. looking again, take pair out (getting a good time is ruined at this point already), reinsert with you actually looking.. start doubting your sanity.. realizing it IS in the right spot but.. ohhhhhhh it's flipped! Oh Bupkis (in this case mit Kuduchas)... :fp


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## MarcelP (Feb 21, 2013)

So today I did an Ao50 ( did not find the time for 100) on WHITE only:

Mean: 27.32
Average: 27.43
Best time: 16.31
Median: 27.38
Worst time: 32.85
Standard deviation: 3.19

Best average of 5: 24.32
44-48 - 24.06 24.93 (29.86) (16.31) 23.98

Best average of 12: 26.01
1-12 - 22.52 26.49 25.54 23.84 25.94 29.91 28.36 28.13 26.18 (32.41) 23.20 (22.26)

47. *16.31 * U2 B2 D R2 F2 R2 U2 F2 L2 D' R F' U F2 U' B' R U' B' F2
(that is my second best single PB, and it was a full solve!!!)


Although I did not break my Ao12 PB (CN) I feel solving on white is easier. The Ao50 average is better than my CN average. Still I see myself not going back to solving white only. These where the first pure white (which forces me to do hard crosses aswell) in 8 - 9 weeks. I will do this a few more times over the next few days. These times might improve a bit since I have been avoiding white crosses for the lasttwo months. Let see what happens..


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## Kattenvriendin (Feb 21, 2013)

I reverted back to the white crosses, my times are significantly faster, however I DO find that I have gotten better at building the crosses during inspection in the first place so that must help, I simply know which color goes where much faster on white.

(and with Eindhoven coming up.. heh  )

Curious what will happen with your times though now!


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## MarcelP (Feb 21, 2013)

Kattenvriendin said:


> Curious what will happen with your times though now!



I could not resist to do another Ao50 on white crosses. 

Mean: * 26.94*
Average: 26.91
Best time: 20.25
Median: 27.25
Worst time: 35.02
Standard deviation: 3.33

Best average of 5: 24.60
24-28 - (20.96) (28.34) 24.99 22.80 26.00

Best average of 12: *25.19*
26-37 - 24.99 22.80 26.00 28.18 27.20 21.27 26.42 28.37 (29.55) 23.33 (20.25) 23.29

I broke my Ao50 average PB, Ao12 PB and Mo3 PB.. Still I am kind of bummed that I am faster at white crosses. I like to think of it this way, I became faster on white crosses because of my hard work on color neutral


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## Kattenvriendin (Feb 21, 2013)

Aww hehe.. don't be bummed.

I think you need to do AT LEAST as long color neutral as you have been doing white, and what you learned first just wants to stick best.

Wonderful times there!!


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## MWilson (Feb 21, 2013)

Kattenvriendin said:


> I reverted back to the white crosses, my times are significantly faster, however I DO find that I have gotten better at building the crosses during inspection in the first place so that must help, I simply know which color goes where much faster on white.
> 
> (and with Eindhoven coming up.. heh  )
> 
> Curious what will happen with your times though now!



You can, but you don't need to memorize the colors around each cross. You can tell intuitively instantly using what I explain in the color neutral thread: http://www.speedsolving.com/forum/showthread.php?34834-Color-Neutral-Transition-Thread&p=822936#post822936


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## Kattenvriendin (Feb 21, 2013)

Unfortunately my brain is the odd one out. I cannot fathom the obvious and not obvious, unfortunately. Differently wired lol


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## mark49152 (Feb 22, 2013)

sneaklyfox said:


> Nb perm:
> R' U R U' R' F' U' F R U R' U' R U' f R f'
> This is the one I currently use but actually I hate it and it's my least favourite PLL.
> 
> ...


Have you guys seen jskyler91's Nb video? Feels weird at first but after a couple of hundred drills it actually feels quite easy and smooth. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5GCx5AyFCh0

I've knocked over a second off my G and N perms in the last couple of days, thanks to these vids!


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## MarcelP (Feb 22, 2013)

mark49152 said:


> Have you guys seen jskyler91's Nb video? Feels weird at first but after a couple of hundred drills it actually feels quite easy and smooth. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5GCx5AyFCh0
> 
> I've knocked over a second off my G and N perms in the last couple of days, thanks to these vids!



Yes, I have been using it for a while. I could not get used to it. I think I will do them a couple of hundred times tonight to see if it will kick in with me aswell.

Also I just did a quick Ao12 on color neutral:

Mean: 27.45
Average: 27.54
Best time: 20.85
Median: 28.13
Worst time: 33.17
Standard deviation: 3.06

Best average of 5: 25.60
2-6 - (20.85) 24.48 28.19 (29.05) 24.13

Best average of 12: 27.54
1-12 - 28.27 (20.85) 24.48 28.19 29.05 24.13 30.78 28.37 27.13 28.06 (33.17) 26.92

Not too bad.. but also not even close to White cross times


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## mark49152 (Feb 22, 2013)

What are your conclusions on CN? Is the benefit of being able to select easier crosses worth more than the benefit of being super-familiar with one colour orientation?


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## MarcelP (Feb 22, 2013)

I have been doing cross only solves on CN and on white. Both average 4 seconds for me. So it seems that I have nothing to gain there. However, in an Ao100 it is easier to pick an easy cross on CN since you do not have to concentrate as hard as I would on getting the 4 seconds on a not so easy white cross. Overall I would say solving CN is slower (for me). Because I do not master the X-cross. If you are an X-cross ninja, than CN is only way to go. 

I prefer CN over (the faster white crosses) because I think it is more fun. And solving slow CN helps me train lookahead, which helps me also on white crosses.


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## mark49152 (Feb 22, 2013)

MarcelP said:


> solving slow CN helps me train lookahead


Does CN slow down your F2L, or LL recognition? Even if it makes you solve F2L slower, how does it help lookahead if you're burning more brain cycles on tracking different colour orientation?


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## MarcelP (Feb 22, 2013)

CN slows down F2L. In the substep race have I been doing LL on all other colors but yellow. No problems there.

But solving CN in F2L forces you to look at the corner first and then find the matching edge. In CN training I can now look for the next pair while solving the current. In white cross solves your brain is already used to the colors. So if see an edge first, your brain knows what corner has to go with that edge. And this way you can turn really fast and look for pairs AFTER solving the current. I can get sub 30 averages on white cross without any look ahead. However, if I slow down like on CN solves and start with a corner and find the edge while solving another pair I get faster times. Low 20's are more frequent. So to sum up, CN training helped me look ahead for next pairs  Today I had a 20 second solve on blue.

EDIT: Sneaklyfox did an Ao12 on white cross before one month CN training and one after:
Before 17.49, after 16.77. And Kattenvriendin had a 45 seconds white cross average (correct me if I am wrong Y.) and after CN traing so flipped to 35 second PB on white cross.. So training CN has it's advantages  I averaged around 30 seconds when I started CN training. I graduated in the sub30 race one week before. Now I have an Ao12 25.19 PB. I really think it has to do with CN training.


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## mark49152 (Feb 22, 2013)

Do you always use corner bias? Did you learn it deliberately, or just acquire it as habit? Did you always do it, or start it for CN?


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## MarcelP (Feb 22, 2013)

I never used it on white. But you NEED it in CN solving. Because when you solve for example RED cross you do not know what edges are part of the top layer untill you find a red corner and see that there is a yellow and blue sticker on the corner aswell. Maybe true CN solvers will have all the colors in their head like most of us have with white cross. Solving white only will train your brain to ignore yellow pieces during F2L. Therefore you do not have find a white corner and find corresponding edge. You just see green/red egde and you immediatly know it's part of you F2L. In CN solving that would be a tough task I think.


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## mark49152 (Feb 22, 2013)

That makes sense. I'm trying to figure out how to get past my F2L plateau. I read Chris Hardwick's original analysis of corner bias and it makes sense, except the real problem (to me) is not finding the first piece, it's finding the second piece. Because, for the first piece you have free choice but for the second there is only one matching piece and finding it is harder. Many of my F2L stalls are caused by not seeing quickly enough where that second matching piece is. So an argument that visibility/findability of corners is better than for edges, seems to me to favour edge bias. At the moment I don't think I have a bias.

Not sure whether I will try CN, it sounds like a lot of work, but I'd like to try a different approach to F2L training. I'm not really motivated to become CN but if it's a useful technique for improving F2L I'd give it a go.


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## Kattenvriendin (Feb 22, 2013)

It improves F2L, take my word for it.  I am now back on white only, but doing CN trains you in finding pairs in ways on white only does not. Recognition is much faster for me now, lookahead has improved.


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## MarcelP (Feb 22, 2013)

I would say, give it a go. At first expect your times to change for the worst.. My first averages on Blue cross where 45+.. In a day I had them down to 35 secs.


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## mark49152 (Feb 22, 2013)

Would dual give the same benefit, do you think? Or perhaps just training with one different cross colour for a few days? Or would I really need to put the weeks into CN training to see any difference?


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## MarcelP (Feb 22, 2013)

Dual is not the same. It is the same color filter which you brain already knows.. That's why I skipped yellow training in the CN transition. Just do a few days blue and see what will come from it. You can always go back to white. Be sure to watch the jskyler video in the color neutral transition thread. I love his vids.


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## mark49152 (Feb 22, 2013)

Yep nothing to lose by a few days on blue. Thanks. And yes I'm a fan of jskyler's vids too, but where has he got to recently? Did the haters put him off? Hey jskyler - can we have a G-perm vid, please?


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## mark49152 (Feb 22, 2013)

Right - for your merry amusement, here is my first ever CN average. I did 16 solves alternating the four non-W/Y colours.

1:13, 1:26, 1:26, 1:30, 1:09; 1:15, 1:02, 1:18, 1:05, 1:13, 1:20, 1:24, 1:03, 1:17, 1:06, 1:12 - mean 1:15.42

Compared to white cross average of 45.09. So when you said my times would get worse at first, no kidding!  I was going to keep going until my first sub-1:00, but ran out of patience. Strangely, 1:15 was what I got when I first ever took a 3x3 average back in October, so, switching cross colour is like going right back to square one! (although I know I'd improve faster of course).


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## MarcelP (Feb 22, 2013)

mark49152 said:


> Right - for your merry amusement, here is my first ever CN average. I did 16 solves alternating the four non-W/Y colours.
> 
> 1:13, 1:26, 1:26, 1:30, 1:09; 1:15, 1:02, 1:18, 1:05, 1:13, 1:20, 1:24, 1:03, 1:17, 1:06, 1:12 - mean 1:15.42
> 
> Compared to white cross average of 45.09. So when you said my times would get worse at first, no kidding!  I was going to keep going until my first sub-1:00, but ran out of patience. Strangely, 1:15 was what I got when I first ever took a 3x3 average back in October, so, switching cross colour is like going right back to square one! (although I know I'd improve faster of course).



LOL.. merry amusement.. Well, you have established a null point measurement.. I will be very curious to see what happens if you dedicate to CN for a few days.


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## mark49152 (Feb 22, 2013)

I have to add, the first couple of solves back on white crosses were weirdly disorienting. It was like I'd forgotten my colour filter.


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## MarcelP (Feb 22, 2013)

No, you have stay away from white crosses for a while  Don't worry that your white crosses will get slower..


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## sneaklyfox (Feb 22, 2013)

mark49152 said:


> I have to add, the first couple of solves back on white crosses were weirdly disorienting. It was like I'd forgotten my colour filter.



That's normal, but it doesn't last.


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## MarcelP (Feb 24, 2013)

I made a few video's today. It's hard to get good times on camera 
Here is how I do my Ao100's (with a lot of distraction):

1. 30.25 L2 U2 B2 D' L2 D2 B2 L2 F2 L2 F2 R' D F D B D' F' L2 D' L'
2. 28.28 F2 U L2 F2 L2 D' L2 B2 D' F' D R B' L F L B2 D U'
3. 23.71 U2 R2 L2 B2 D U R2 D' L2 U B' R D2 L' B2 U B' F2 R' B2 U2
4. 24.91 F2 D' B2 L2 U R2 F2 L2 U2 F2 D2 R' D B D R F2 D' B2 R B2

[video=youtube_share;q3RSo7Kix_Q]http://youtu.be/q3RSo7Kix_Q[/video]

Some more vids:


Spoiler



7. 29.90 F2 D' R2 D2 L2 D B2 R2 D F2 U2 B U' L' F R D B' U' F' L D'
8. 34.06 L2 U B2 L2 U2 B2 R2 D' U' F2 R D B' U L D B D2 F' D2 U2
9. 29.09 D2 F2 D' L2 B2 L2 D2 F2 D F2 U' F R2 B2 U' B L' B' R D' L' U'
10. 34.85 L2 U2 L2 D F2 D' U2 L2 F2 D' U2 R' B' D R' B R U2 B R' F' U'
11. 24.65 U' F2 D' F2 L2 D2 R2 D' B2 R2 F2 R F2 D' B U2 R2 B2 D2 U F' L'
12. 30.67 B2 D2 B2 U' F2 D F2 L2 U2 L B F' U2 L B' D U B' R2 U2
13. 26.54 R2 D' L2 U R2 U' L2 U' R2 U R L U B F D' B2 L D2 R'
14. 29.37 D2 F2 D' U2 F2 D R2 D' F' R' L2 D F' L2 B' L B' D' U2
http://youtu.be/GQN-mcJFK5Q

27. 23.06 B2 U' R2 F2 U2 F2 D' L2 B2 R2 F2 L' F' L2 B2 R F U' B' R' D2 L'
28. 32.98 B2 D2 B2 F2 L2 B2 U' R2 D L2 D' F' R' D2 U' L2 U L D' B2 L2
29. 31.87 B2 U' F2 R2 U B2 U F2 U B2 D2 B' R' U2 L2 U B F' D U2 B2 D'
30. 29.01 D' R2 F2 L2 B2 U L2 U2 B2 L2 D2 L' F' U' L2 D2 F' D2 R D' B' F2
31. 24.28 R2 B2 R2 F2 D F2 R2 U2 F2 D F L' D2 U R2 B' L2 D R' F'
32. 29.42 U L2 F2 D R2 L2 D2 L2 F2 R2 B' L2 F2 D R D' R' D F R
33. 25.96 D2 L2 B2 D R2 F2 D L2 F2 U2 B2 R B' R2 U B' R B D' F' U2
34. 25.53 D L2 U F2 D2 B2 U' L2 F2 R2 D2 L U B' R2 U L B' D' F' U2
http://youtu.be/--7jP0zgXkM


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## Kattenvriendin (Feb 24, 2013)

Me cats, you kids.. what is this world coming to?

 Kidding heheh cute kid!

ROFL 1:53ish


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## Lchu613 (Feb 24, 2013)

When do you guys get the TIME to do avgs of 100?


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## Lchu613 (Feb 24, 2013)

Whoa, posted at the same time!


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## Kattenvriendin (Feb 24, 2013)

I have no idea how they do it. Even I took breaks when I did that 50 today.. 50 is a BIG exception for me to do, today was the first time ever as I didn't feel like stopping at 12 solves..

I don't have kids, so that helps!


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## MarcelP (Feb 24, 2013)

Lchu613 said:


> When do you guys get the TIME to do avgs of 100?



We don't.. but if you want to get faster you really must squeeze these timed Ao100s in your life


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## Kattenvriendin (Feb 24, 2013)

Not really.. I am proof of that *grin*


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## moralsh (Feb 24, 2013)

Hehe, mini-Marcel


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## Lchu613 (Feb 24, 2013)

lol


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## MarcelP (Feb 24, 2013)

moralsh said:


> Hehe, mini-Marcel


Thank god he has the looks from his beautiful mother


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## Schmidt (Feb 24, 2013)

How many times do you have in PPT now? And what is the first time recorded?


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## lcsbiffi (Feb 24, 2013)

*Re: Hi, Marcel from Holland here*

Own, your kid is just too cute haha I really like kids  they are fun to be around and are always surprising us 

Enviado de meu GT-I9300 usando o Tapatalk 2


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## sneaklyfox (Feb 25, 2013)

MarcelP said:


> Thank god he has the looks from his beautiful mother



Awww Marcel, your kid is sooo cute!

And about the Ao100s... it's a lot easier when you're faster because it takes a lot less time.


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## Lchu613 (Feb 25, 2013)

I'm just too lazy lol


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## cxinlee (Feb 25, 2013)

I'm gonna have to finish my school work before I can have the time to do one.


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## MarcelP (Feb 25, 2013)

Schmidt said:


> How many times do you have in PPT now? And what is the first time recorded?


I cube on three different computers. The one where I did these video's says 2946 scrambles since Aug 1st 2012. That sounds about right.

EDIT: just checked on my main cube computer, it has 4000 scrambles in the history 



lcsbiffi said:


> Own, your kid is just too cute haha I really like kids  they are fun to be around and are always surprising us



Yep, a true joy in life.



sneaklyfox said:


> Awww Marcel, your kid is sooo cute!
> 
> And about the Ao100s... it's a lot easier when you're faster because it takes a lot less time.



Thanks! And you are right.. after a while scrambling goes faster (and also practice for fingertricks) and solving goes faster.


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## MarcelP (Feb 27, 2013)

I took the day off for cubing .. well.. only the morning. My son is to school, and in the afternoon I go and join him in judo class.. 

So...,

I was doing an Ao50 white cross when number 39 was an awefull nice scramble, so I turned the camera on and had a sub 18 full step solve on camera!!

39. 17.44 L2 D' L2 U' L2 D2 R2 U' F2 U2 R2 B' L2 F U' F R F2 L' D' R2 U2

[video=youtube_share;wgu8zeUgAX8]http://youtu.be/wgu8zeUgAX8[/video]

anyway, I have been latetly doubting my color neutral training. I had been doing quite a few white cross averages and these where very good. So today I did an Ao50 on CN and on White/yellow cross only


Ao50 *Color neutral*:

Mean: 28.70
Average: *28.51*
Best time: *23.00*
Median: 28.31
Worst time: *43.57*
Standard deviation: 3.65

Best average of 5: 24.86
13-17 - (23.25) 25.17 (26.98) 23.69 25.72

Best average of 12: 26.68
6-17 - 24.84 28.92 26.96 25.07 28.77 (31.34) 30.66 (23.25) 25.17 26.98 23.69 25.72

Ao50 *dual white/yellow*:

Mean: 27.43
Average: *27.45*
Best time: *17.44*
Median: 27.52
Worst time: *36.00*
Standard deviation: 3.53

Best average of 5: 23.24
35-39 - 22.02 26.55 (27.70) 21.16 (17.44)

Best average of 12: 25.62
38-49 - 21.16 (17.44) 28.41 (29.11) 27.61 28.84 24.24 29.10 23.00 25.93 22.09 25.85

So, it seems that at least today my times on CN are not far off my white crosses.. So for now continuing on CN practice 

Also, I crushed my 4 X 4 PB in the entry for the weekly competition! I have been doing about 5 solves per day for the last week, I took almost *one minute *of my PB

4X4X4: (5:11.44) 4:19.60 4:11.77 4:22.06 (3:48.60) = 4:17.81


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## tintinwrc (Feb 27, 2013)

I do a 8.779 on your scramble w/ a EPLL skip.
F2L 1+2 : z2 y2 R U' R' U R' U2 R U' R' U R
cross + F2L 3 : y' U' r U' r2 F' r
F2L 4 : y U' L' U' L y' U' R U' R'
COLL : y R U' L' U R' U L U L' U L U2
35 moves, 3.99 tps


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## moralsh (Feb 27, 2013)

veeery nice scramble 18.30, beats my PB but I feel like cheating so I'll keep considering my 19.88 and my 18.82 as my non lucky and lucky PBs


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## sneaklyfox (Feb 27, 2013)

Nice cross on that scramble. To me, it looks like you are still obviously biased towards white/yellow.


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## MarcelP (Feb 27, 2013)

moralsh said:


> veeery nice scramble 18.30, beats my PB but I feel like cheating so I'll keep considering my 19.88 and my 18.82 as my non lucky and lucky PBs



18.30 is also very nice! And yes, this was a very lucky scramble  (you got to love them  )



sneaklyfox said:


> Nice cross on that scramble. To me, it looks like you are still obviously biased towards white/yellow.



Yes, although at my averages is one second difference not worth talking about  I continue to solve CN. I am faster on white cross, but I do not use look ahead (not on purpose). Solving CN forces me to look ahead. And I master look ahead perfectly solving CN at a reasonable slow TPS. On white cross I just turn super fast and almost immediately find a new pair after the other one.. So continuing on CN maybe one day I might do better solves on white just because I have learned to slow down and look there too


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## sneaklyfox (Feb 27, 2013)

MarcelP said:


> Yes, although at my averages is one second difference not worth talking about  I continue to solve CN. I am faster on white cross, but I do not use look ahead (not on purpose). Solving CN forces me to look ahead. And I master look ahead perfectly solving CN at a reasonable slow TPS. On white cross I just turn super fast and almost immediately find a new pair after the other one.. So continuing on CN maybe one day I might do better solves on white just because I have learned to slow down and look there too



That is a good strategy. I think Breandan Vallance (top UK cuber) practices on CN but does yellow cross in competition. It actually doesn't work for me and is rather opposite. On white/yellow I can look ahead. For CN, I am not able to look ahead because I can't see the correct colours fast enough.


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## moralsh (Feb 27, 2013)

That's also my approach, I'm solving this whole week on green because I think it improves my (poor) lookahead, I'll try to do the whole cycle and will decide if I stick with it or not after the whole process.

Right now, solving on white feels like fresh air, I was more comfortable with CN solving when Marcel started than now, I blame it on me getting faster


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## Kattenvriendin (Feb 27, 2013)

On that scramble: 26.51 LOL!


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## MarcelP (Feb 27, 2013)

moralsh said:


> I was more comfortable with CN solving when Marcel started than now, I blame it on me getting faster



Yes, I remember you doing an Ao12 or 5 months back when we where averaging 35+ and your CN times where close to the white cross times.  Just keep praticing CN and do not worry about your times. It will help your white times also in the end. And if you succeed to transform to a CN solver then you have gained a lot.



Kattenvriendin said:


> On that scramble: 26.51 LOL!



Oohhh nice.. Almost a PB again


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## Schmidt (Feb 27, 2013)

> 39. 17.44 L2 D' L2 U' L2 D2 R2 U' F2 U2 R2 B' L2 F U' F R F2 L' D' R2 U2



13.84 stackmat


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## ben1996123 (Feb 27, 2013)

L2 D' L2 U' L2 D2 R2 U' F2 U2 R2 B' L2 F U' F R F2 L' D' R2 U2

really nice scramble, I got 9.85 on real cube and 5.48 on sim ( pb is 5.91 )


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## MarcelP (Mar 1, 2013)

So today was timing day again.

This week I have practiced nothing but color neutral slow solving. No white crosses what so ever.

Ao50 *Color neutral:*

Mean: 28.45
Average: *28.41*
Best time: 21.55
Median: 28.56
Worst time: 37.42
Standard deviation: 3.31

Best average of 5: 25.90
35-39 - 23.40 28.81 (30.45) (22.86) 25.50

Best average of 12: 26.88
1-12 - 27.31 27.00 28.57 24.90 27.28 (34.73) 25.99 (24.76) 27.52 28.57 26.28 25.38

It seems that most often with CN my best 12 are the first 12. CN solving requires more attention or something I guess.

Next Ao50 dual *white/yellow*
Mean: 27.16
Average: *27.15*
Best time: 20.80
Median: 27.42
Worst time: 33.84
Standard deviation: 2.67

Best average of 5: 25.15
46-50 - 26.44 (26.59) 24.14 24.86 (22.06)

Best average of 12: 26.38
21-32 - 25.35 (28.64) 27.10 27.93 27.89 (23.26) 27.23 26.38 23.49 25.74 27.90 24.82

I was quite close to some PB's so I stpped for a coffey brake and continued to make a full Ao100 white/yellow:







I broke my Ao100 with a full second, Ao50, Ao12 (*my first sub 25 Jay!*), and Ao5 PB's..... That's proof enough for me that the color neutral solving is helping my times


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## MarcelP (Mar 1, 2013)

Today a shipment from Zcube came in. It had my address without house number on it. The post guy said to me "Since it came from China I knew I had to bring it to you. You are the only person in your village that gets packages from China.." LOL

So, I got my 7 X 7 Shengshou ... just solved it in 3 hours... Very nice... it turns so smooth.


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## uniacto (Mar 1, 2013)

MarcelP said:


> Today a shipment from Zcube came in. It had my address without house number on it. The post guy said to me "Since it came from China I knew I had to bring it to you. You are the only person in your village that gets packages from China.." LOL
> 
> So, I got my 7 X 7 Shengshou ... just solved it in 3 hours... Very nice... it turns so smooth.



bahaha you have a reputation now, don't you?


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## Kattenvriendin (Mar 2, 2013)

LOL you should see the mail man here, he also knows the same and for things that need signing the good man even hands them off to my one neighbor. It's ok by me, I have my cubes sooner *grin*

One time he came with this absolutely HUGE van. Got out of said hugeness and went into the back. Rummaged about, and came out again with the smallest box I had ever seen a cube packed in. I believe it was the wittwo that I got from Dealmaz. I had to laugh so hard and said: "Aww.. do you need THIS big a van for that tiny little thing?"

A day later he came by again.. with this small combo car, delivering the DIY assemble house (big thing) for the cats for outside in their cat pen.

TWO huge boxes came out of that small car. I told him that "Somewhere in the planning things are not going right, ey?" LOL


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## MarcelP (Mar 2, 2013)

LOL, you' re a famous person aswel.. 

I just stickered my 7 X 7 with Cubesmith halfbrights.. Pffftt.. My eyes hurt and my fingers are raw from the plastic razor blade where I peeled the stickers off with. Not going to do that ever again.


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## Kattenvriendin (Mar 2, 2013)

Did you only have the blade and not the holder for the blade then?


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## MarcelP (Mar 2, 2013)

There is a holder also? I did not know that  No, I used the 50 cents blade only.


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## Kattenvriendin (Mar 2, 2013)

Oh man yeah that is no fun at all.

There is a holder indeed 

http://cubesmith.com/3x3x3tiles.htm bottom right.

I have done quite a few replacing and that thing is great!


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## Gordon (Mar 2, 2013)

*Hi, Marcel from Holland here*



MarcelP said:


> There is a holder also? I did not know that  No, I used the 50 cents blade only.



Just noticed that this was post 1000... 


The biggest cube i stickered was a 4x4... And for me it was already too much


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## lcsbiffi (Mar 2, 2013)

*Re: Hi, Marcel from Holland here*

The biggest one I stickered was my main 55 mm zanchi lol


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## Kattenvriendin (Mar 2, 2013)

Tuttminx *giggles* That is a loooot of stickers.. *gulp*


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## mark49152 (Mar 2, 2013)

Stickering's fun but taking them off doesn't sound like it would be...


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## Kattenvriendin (Mar 2, 2013)

It's no so bad if you have the right tools


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## mark49152 (Mar 2, 2013)

I think I'd be lazy and stick the new ones over the top


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## Kattenvriendin (Mar 2, 2013)

Then you'd be shooting yourself in the foot  Those new stickers will peel off fast.


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## mark49152 (Mar 2, 2013)

Only joking


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## Lchu613 (Mar 2, 2013)

I need to resticker a cube...
I think I'll get my friend to do it for me
But maybe not, because he's liable to screw up thecolor scheme, and he never puts them on- center


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## MarcelP (Mar 2, 2013)

Lchu613 said:


> But maybe not, because he's liable to screw up thecolor scheme, and he never puts them on- center



After I stickered my 7 X 7 I did a new 50 Zhanchi aswell. I should not have done that because I stickered green next to blue.. Arghhhh I did not want to waste Cubesmith stickers so I took the pieces apart and put them in the right color scheme back together.. No fun doing that I can tell you


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## Schmidt (Mar 2, 2013)

You should have done an ao12 to see if the different colorscheme messes with your mind.


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## MarcelP (Mar 2, 2013)

I can not get decent times with this 50 mm cube anyway.. Too small.. But that sounds interesting. I will re-sticker a different cube when my hands do not hurt anymore.


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## sneaklyfox (Mar 2, 2013)

MarcelP said:


> I can not get decent times with this 50 mm cube anyway.. Too small.. But that sounds interesting. I will re-sticker a different cube when my hands do not hurt anymore.



I have a 50mm Zhanchi. Right now it has the original Dayan stickers. Did you get stickers from cubesmith? If so, which size are they that fit the 50mm?


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## MarcelP (Mar 2, 2013)

sneaklyfox said:


> I have a 50mm Zhanchi. Right now it has the original Dayan stickers. Did you get stickers from cubesmith? If so, which size are they that fit the 50mm?


I ordered from here http://www.cubesmith.com/3x3x3 Extra Small Size.htm These fit perfect. I have bought this 50mm because I really want to make a start in one handed solving. But right now I do not know if I will use a 55 mm or this 50 mm. I will have to try on both for a while.


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## Kattenvriendin (Mar 2, 2013)

Awww only one cube and whining?  I did SIX! *giggle*


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## Lchu613 (Mar 3, 2013)

Ouch, Marcel, you just got burned!


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## Kattenvriendin (Mar 3, 2013)

Oh he knows it.. he knows exactly it.. heheh.


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## MarcelP (Mar 3, 2013)

Kattenvriendin said:


> Awww only one cube and whining?  I did SIX! *giggle*



LOL, it's true.. I admire your joy at disassembling and assembling cubes and stuff. I am a lazy dude that rather buys the complete and working perfectly 



Lchu613 said:


> Ouch, Marcel, you just got burned!



Ha ha ha.. Kattenvriendin and I bought six stickerless cubes to create 6 single force cubes. She did all the work. She is entitled to laughing at me.


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## Kattenvriendin (Mar 3, 2013)

*grin* But all in good jest, of course!


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## lcsbiffi (Mar 3, 2013)

*Re: Hi, Marcel from Holland here*



MarcelP said:


> I ordered from here http://www.cubesmith.com/3x3x3 Extra Small Size.htm These fit perfect. I have bought this 50mm because I really want to make a start in one handed solving. But right now I do not know if I will use a 55 mm or this 50 mm. I will have to try on both for a while.



I use 55 mm for both hands lol I like it


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## MarcelP (Mar 3, 2013)

Two days ago I had my first sub 25 Ao12. Today I was doing an Ao100 and I had a 24.something at a certain point. I thought I was not going to beat that PB soon. And 20 solves later:

Best average of 12:* 23.93*
67-78 - 21.84 24.26 22.04 28.00 27.65 (19.68) 23.34 (28.40) 22.78 23.21 23.50 22.71

OMG.. I did not expect that to happen any time soon.. A sub 24 Ao12.. LOL Ofcourse it's nothing like Mats' WR but it sure feels like a WR..


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## Kattenvriendin (Mar 3, 2013)

WHOOOOHOOHOO!!!

Quite the accomplishment! It is those marks we set for ourselves. And when we cross them when not expected.. YEAAAAHHHH!

Congrats!


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## sneaklyfox (Mar 3, 2013)

Sub-24! Way to go, Marcel! Sub-20 GOGOGO.


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## MarcelP (Mar 3, 2013)

Kattenvriendin said:


> WHOOOOHOOHOO!!!
> 
> Quite the accomplishment! It is those marks we set for ourselves. And when we cross them when not expected.. YEAAAAHHHH!
> 
> ...


Yep, indeed. that is the addictive feeling 


sneaklyfox said:


> Sub-24! Way to go, Marcel! Sub-20 GOGOGO.



It was kind of a fluke..  I took some time to go hiking with my wife and kids and after that did a quick Ao50.. Total average was 27.45 and best Ao12 was:

Best average of 12: *26.39*
32-43 - 23.92 (30.82) 27.17 22.51 28.07 26.68 29.81 27.93 27.98 23.82 (22.18) 26.03

Big difference.. LOL


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## sneaklyfox (Mar 4, 2013)

MarcelP said:


> It was kind of a fluke..  I took some time to go hiking with my wife and kids and after that did a quick Ao50.. Total average was 27.45 and best Ao12 was:
> 
> Best average of 12: *26.39*
> 32-43 - 23.92 (30.82) 27.17 22.51 28.07 26.68 29.81 27.93 27.98 23.82 (22.18) 26.03
> ...



I don't call it a fluke. But if you insist on calling it that then by all means keep fluking!


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## Lchu613 (Mar 4, 2013)

MarcelP said:


> Ha ha ha.. Kattenvriendin and I bought six stickerless cubes to create 6 single force cubes. She did all the work. She is entitled to laughing at me.


 I WANT ONE


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## MarcelP (Mar 8, 2013)

After nice video's from Kattenvriendin and Gordon I have turned my camera on also:

I average around 26 - 28 now these days so these are typical solves:

48. 26.05 B2 L2 U2 R2 D' L2 F2 U' F2 R2 B2 L' D' L' B U2 R2 D' B' F' R' D2
49. 26.16 B2 L2 U2 F2 U L2 F2 U B2 U' L F R' L' B2 F L' U2 B2 D'
50. 29.38 R2 U2 B2 U' F2 D F2 D2 R2 D2 L2 B R' U2 R2 L' B' R U' B R2 F'
51. 27.89 R2 D' R2 D R2 B2 D' U F2 R2 F' L2 F' R2 D L2 F' L' D'
52. 28.55 B2 F2 D R2 B2 R2 U' B2 D' R2 U F B2 L' B2 D2 R F2 L2 D' B' U'
53. 28.72 L2 U B2 R2 F2 R2 D2 B2 D L2 U' B R B' U B2 R2 L2 D B L

I wanted to do them all on white but when I looked at the video I noticed I had a green cross in there aswell..LOL I still only practise CN. I had two X-crosses in these 6 solves. I notice that for me these are not faster than normal crosses and doing pairs afterwards..
[video=youtube_share;bVHWShLfn98]http://youtu.be/bVHWShLfn98[/video]


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## sneaklyfox (Mar 8, 2013)

Wow, you can do X-crosses? I know the idea of it, but I have never really practiced it to use it to my advantage. If it happens to me, it's always by accident.


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## kunparekh18 (Mar 8, 2013)

MarcelP said:


> After nice video's from Kattenvriendin and Gordon I have turned my camera on also:
> 
> I average around 26 - 28 now these days so these are typical solves:
> 
> ...



Great! +1 for X-crosses!



sneaklyfox said:


> Wow, you can do X-crosses? I know the idea of it, but I have never really practiced it to use it to my advantage. If it happens to me, it's always by accident.



Jskyler91 has a series of great vids on it! You should check them out.


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## MarcelP (Mar 8, 2013)

sneaklyfox said:


> Wow, you can do X-crosses? I know the idea of it, but I have never really practiced it to use it to my advantage. If it happens to me, it's always by accident.



I have been practicing a lot, and I have been doing a lot of Fewest moves lately. There you MUSt be able to do block building with keyhole tricks and stuff.. I totally suck at it, and all the time that I spend on FMC is less time on speed 
training  LOL.. I noticed no improvement this week.. I do however notice some more consitency in my times.. I like that.

anyway, here are some CN solves:

10. 25.43 F2 R2 B2 D B2 D2 R2 D2 F2 U B2 L' B' R B F' U' B' R2 L B
11. 26.54 U2 B2 D' L2 U R2 U2 B2 L2 U' L' B U2 R U' L U' B2 D' F' L
12. 25.66 L2 U F2 L2 D R2 D' U R2 F2 D2 B D R2 L' F R' U' F L D' U2 (performed wrong PLL )
13. 31.28 D2 L2 D2 U' B2 R2 B2 R2 D2 L2 U' R' B2 D' R' D R' F R D R U'
14. 25.06 B2 R2 U L2 U F2 D L2 B2 U L' B' L2 D' L' F2 R D2 L B2

[video=youtube_share;QHgXXMuzTZk]http://youtu.be/QHgXXMuzTZk[/video]


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## sneaklyfox (Mar 8, 2013)

kunparekh18 said:


> Jskyler91 has a series of great vids on it! You should check them out.



I know. I watched them. But don't practice. I think we need an X-cross example solve game or something.


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## Gordon (Mar 8, 2013)

If I have an X-cross, I loose more time than I gain because it usually takes a while to recognize that the fourth pair is already solved after inserting only three...


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## MarcelP (Mar 8, 2013)

yeah, me too.. Thinking and turning.. LOL Normal cross is faster for me. But do not forget our former record holder Feliks (remeber that guy? ) uses X-cross often (according to one of his videos. I admire his speed and style greatly so I think I should master CN and Xcrosses aswel.. Even if it takes a few year.

And check my X-cross solution on FMC from this week:

http://www.speedsolving.com/forum/showthread.php?40785-Weekly-Competition-2013-10


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## Kattenvriendin (Mar 8, 2013)

Gordon said:


> If I have an X-cross, I loose more time than I gain because it usually takes a while to recognize that the fourth pair is already solved after inserting only three...



HAhahaa yep, happened to me in the 50 as well!


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## Lchu613 (Mar 8, 2013)

A lot of my solves where I don't fully inspect the cross (yes, I know), I waste around 5 seconds looking for the last cross piece
then I feel stupid


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## MarcelP (Mar 13, 2013)

My Solution for the FMC weekly competition week 11 also had an X-cross:

scramble: R' U' L2 U R2 D L F' R' F U2 R2 U2 F2 L2 B U2 F2 R2 L2

L' B R'L2 B2 R' // x-CROSS
R D' R' D2 F' D F2 D' F' // 2ND PAIR
L D2 L' D' B' D' B // 3RD PAIR
D' L D2 L' F' D2 F D' F' D F // LAST PAIR
B U F U2 B' U B U2 F B' // OLL
B D' F D2 B'D B D2 F' B' // PLL 

Waaay too many moves for a nice solution LOL


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## PianoCube (Mar 14, 2013)

It's fun to see you have some interest for FMC. I started trying it a week (or maby two) before you, and find it quite interesting as it is so different from everything else.
Check out my solution of 36 moves: D2 R2 L’ B R2 B2 R2 L2 D L D L’ R D R’ D’ R D’ R’ D’ R’ B R B’ L D2 L’ D’ L D2 R’ D L’ D’ R D2

2x2x1 block: D2
Place red cross piece, make red/green pair: R2
Double X-cross : L’ B R2 B2 R2 L2
3rd pair: D L D L’
4th pair: R D R’ *D2 R D’ R’*
OLL: *R D R’ D* R D’ R’ D’ R’ B R B’
PLL: L D2 L’ D’ L D2 R’ D L’ D’ R D2

The way I inserted the last pair made a longer OLL, but because all the moves in *bold* can be canceled and replaced with a D', I saved a move (I think)

Nothing too advanced, just some fancy block building in the beginning. Notice the fancy way the red/blue pair is solved 
I'm actually not much better than you (my earlier attempts have been 47, 47 and 46 moves), this solve just turned out very nicely.

I hope you find this somewhat useful and maybe helps you see things in a new way. Practicing some Petrus/block building is very handy in FMC, even if you use a CFOP-ish method.
Good luck in your future attempts 

Edit:
I counted the moves in your solution and could only see 53



> L' B R'L2 B2 *R'* // x-CROSS
> *R* D' R' D2 F' D F2 D' F' // 2ND PAIR
> L D2 L' D' B' D' B // 3RD PAIR
> D' L D2 L' F' D2 F D' F' D F // LAST PAIR
> ...



The moves I have marked with *bold* can be canceled/removed as R' R and B' B doesn't really do anything.
So your solution could actually be written as 49 moves


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## MarcelP (Mar 14, 2013)

PianoCube said:


> The moves I have marked with *bold* can be canceled/removed as R' R and B' B doesn't really do anything.
> So your solution could actually be written as 49 moves



Yeah, FMC is fun. Thanks for the improved count. Can you tell I am not a smart person? LOL

Every now and then I get private lessons from guusr. He is the Yoda of FMC. Has been worldchampion. I totally suck at FMC but really enjoy it. I wish I had more time to do more solves.


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## MarcelP (Mar 15, 2013)

Time for some statistics. I did an Ao30 CN and Ao100 Whitecross today



Spoiler



*Ao30 Colour neutral*
Mean: *28.22*
Average: 28.19
Best time: 22.62
Median: 28.23
Worst time: 34.49
Standard deviation: 2.80

Best average of 5: 26.44
12-16 - (23.93) 26.67 (28.56) 25.20 27.46

Best average of 12: 27.72
1-12 - 24.45 26.15 27.59 26.24 28.63 31.23 25.87 (33.28) 28.18 29.05 29.80 (23.93)


*Ao100 White cross*

Mean: * 27.39* // Mehh. I was hoping for a sub 26
Average: 27.38
Best time: 19.23
Median: 27.47
Worst time: 36.11
Standard deviation: 2.98

Best average of 5: 23.90
32-36 - (19.23) 24.71 (27.51) 25.36 21.62

Best average of 12: 25.13
27-38 - 22.52 25.47 25.10 26.76 25.82 (19.23) 24.71 27.51 25.36 21.62 (27.63) 26.40



Some of the solves:

48. 25.74 L2 D U2 F2 U' R2 F2 L2 U L2 U' R F' R2 D2 U F2 U B' F2 L U2
49. 28.56 F2 D B2 U F2 U' R2 U B2 F2 L2 F D U' B' L2 D2 R B' U L D
50. 22.88 D L2 U' R2 D L2 D U' R2 B2 U' F' D B2 U' L' B' L' D' R2 B' U
51. 27.42 F2 D2 L2 U' B2 R2 L2 U' F2 R2 F D B2 U2 L' U R' D U' R2
52. 29.13 L2 D' R2 U' B2 D' F2 U L2 D2 B' D L B F2 U' F R L2
[video=youtube_share;2U_xVKREzKk]http://youtu.be/2U_xVKREzKk[/video]


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## Kattenvriendin (Mar 15, 2013)

Nice times Marcel!


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## Kattenvriendin (Mar 16, 2013)

*cough* inbox *cough*


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## MarcelP (Mar 16, 2013)

I just played with the tensions of my Panshi. I did an Ao50 color neutral. I broke my CN Ao average:

Mean: 27.48
Standard deviation: 2.94
Best Time: 21.21
Worst Time: 34.73

Best average of 5: 24.79
5-9 - (28.93) (21.21) 23.56 25.14 25.68

Best average of 12: 25.61
6-17 - (21.21) 23.56 25.14 25.68 26.93 23.54 26.12 24.04 24.57 27.65 (32.53) 28.89

In fact, this Ao50 is faster than my Ao100 white cross of yesterday  So The Panshi can be quite fast. Still it is so loud, and clacky or bumpy (don't know how to describe it) that after solving the Panshi a Zhanchi feels like a breeze..


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## Kattenvriendin (Mar 16, 2013)

Cool! Nice times! Still need to sticker mine, but I am already glad it's assembled lol


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## MarcelP (Mar 18, 2013)

I think I have to make my Panshi my main cube for a while. Well at least until the Fanshi comes out. I have been getting so many great averages with the Panshi. The cube is just more forgiving on sloppy solvers like me. No lock ups at all. And the turning is almost effortless.. I have gotten used to the clacky/bumpy feeling. in fact I start to like it..

I received also a Zhanchi in my shipment with the Panshi. I just did two ao12's:

*Panshi:*


Best average of 12: *26.90*
1-12 - 26.14 28.73 (29.26) 26.20 26.29 26.18 25.03 28.17 28.57 25.86 27.79 (24.51)


*Zhanchi:*

Best average of 12: *27.19*
1-12 - 29.57 24.95 (31.87) 30.48 23.87 29.73 (22.95) 26.29 28.12 25.31 25.86 27.70


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## Kattenvriendin (Mar 18, 2013)

Wow nice times indeed.

Good going on the panshi! I just cannot wait for that Fangshi either.

(side note: what IS up with that shi chi sji thing? I am almost thinking it is like the Dutch name Jansen or something..lol)


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## MarcelP (Mar 18, 2013)

Yeah I was thinking that too. I have no clue what chi means..


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## sneaklyfox (Mar 19, 2013)

I think doing better on the Panshi is a psychological thing because it's a new cube. Everytime I get a new cube I get better times. It's possible that each new cube I get is better than the last one, but I think it's more psychological. That's my theory, anyway. I'm very curious about the Fangshi. If after it is mass produced, there are a lot of good reviews and things, it might be the next cube I choose when it's time to get one again.


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## Akiro (Mar 19, 2013)

This must be the longest introduction thread ever made! :tu


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## redbeat0222 (Mar 19, 2013)

Well marcel hello and to get better check out my thread it has a crap load of tips.


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## MarcelP (Mar 19, 2013)

sneaklyfox said:


> I think doing better on the Panshi is a psychological thing because it's a new cube.



Yes, I have been thinking that too. But in case of the Panshi, I was already convinced that it was a 'bad' cube before I got it. Because all of the bad comments. And in fact I was not really happy with it in the beginning. But after a few hundred solves it has become more smooth. And I just keep getting good times.  It has really something to do with the design.



redbeat0222 said:


> Well marcel hello and to get better check out my thread it has a crap load of tips.



Well thanks. Do you have a link?


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## SpeedSolve (Mar 19, 2013)

MarcelP said:


> Well thanks. Do you have a link?



He doesn't have a thread. Anything he's posted on with big tips is the "How to get faster" thread by Patrick (pjk).


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## MarcelP (Mar 22, 2013)

It's been a few weeks since any PB. Today I had a new PB Ao5 in an Ao50;

From 23.11 to 22.89:

[ Austin Power voice ]
Yeah baby.. 
[ / Austin Power voice ]







EDIT:

I expended the session to a full Ao100:

Another Ao5 PB LOL. Funny thing is, it better than the Bo3





EDIT: I see I broke my Ao12 and Ao100.. Whoohoo..


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## Kattenvriendin (Mar 22, 2013)

Well done!!


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## MarcelP (Mar 22, 2013)

Thanks. I feel 'faster'  Let's see how long it lasts..


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## sneaklyfox (Mar 27, 2013)

You ARE faster. I'm just waiting for another new record because it's bound to happen.


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## Kattenvriendin (Mar 27, 2013)

I am in a rut right now.. hopefully you aren't Marcel.. you are as suspiciously quiet as I am


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## MarcelP (Mar 27, 2013)

sneaklyfox said:


> You ARE faster. I'm just waiting for another new record because it's bound to happen.



Hey, you are back! Hope you had a great vacation! 



Kattenvriendin said:


> I am in a rut right now.. hopefully you aren't Marcel.. you are as suspiciously quiet as I am



Well, I have been doing great lately. But I don't want to brag about it since I have a WCA competition on monday. And I am supersticious as hell. Yesterday evening I did an Ao50 with bad lightening and scored a 26.57. No sub 20's but a few between 20 and 23.. Only a hand full between 29 and 32.


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## Kattenvriendin (Mar 27, 2013)

Ahhhh mine have been in the 30s (around 35, up and down) for a few days. But.. that is ok. I'd rather have a rut NOW than in a few days LOL


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## moralsh (Mar 27, 2013)

I know that until monday we have been to the same number of comps, but I'd like to tell you what worked for me:

- set your goals to +5 your average (i.e. beating my average) and take it easy on the first one, that should lower your nervousness 
- Don't lube or tension your cube on comp day, whatever the state of it is
- if you have an event you don't need to perform well on before the main one (3x3x3, I guess) take it extra easy
- do just slow solves while waiting to be called 
- have fun

...

- try BLD!

You'll do alright 

Edit: Kattenvriendin, same for you, aim for 35 and you might beat my official times 

also, I want photos!


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## MarcelP (Mar 27, 2013)

Thanks Raoul, I will take all your advise. I will be happy with all sub 40 solves  I will be joining 
-2 X 2 (No practice at all except 5 solves every week for weekly competition)
-3 X 3 ( At least 100 solves every day for the last few months)
-4 X 4 (little practice with a 1 - 5 solves every day)
-Pyraminx, no practice at all but did a timed Ao5 last weekend and had something between 1 and 2 minutes


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## Kattenvriendin (Mar 27, 2013)

I am aiming for sub40 to be honest. At this point in time I am not aiming for 35, as I am doing the 35ishes here at home now. Add 5 for nerves which goes sup 40. So hopefully the sub40 can be done, and maybe better 

I AM taking the cubes along I think.. maybe if the feeling is right I will participate in one more event. Need to ask if that is possible on the day itself or not. If not.. also peachy. My main focus will be that 3x3.


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## moralsh (Mar 27, 2013)

kattenvriendin, pretty sure you can decide it on the day but why wait? add 2x2x2 some of your nerves will go away there 

Edit: Marcel, pyra is very easy to get to sub30, just practice for a couple of hours


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## Kattenvriendin (Mar 27, 2013)

Nope.. not doing that. Just saw the schedule and 2x2 and 3x3 are too close together. In fact.. 3x3 is first 
Marcel.. use that vid I gave you. You can see my times with that in the siggie.


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## MarcelP (Mar 27, 2013)

moralsh said:


> Edit: Marcel, pyra is very easy to get to sub30, just practice for a couple of hours



I just looked at your WCA profile.. It's apperantly not that easy.. LOL



Kattenvriendin said:


> Marcel.. use that vid I gave you. You can see my times with that in the siggie.



I have seen the video but I am not that smart to do Pyraminx quickly. Trust me, I have tried.. I think I will ask Erik A to teach me a bit on monday... For example doing centers first takes me about 30 seconds.. I just do'n get it LOL... Monday is not about getting good times for me.. In Eindhoven I have set my mind on good times.


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## Kattenvriendin (Mar 27, 2013)

Yeah.. the centers are the hardest, but once you see where to look it becomes easier 

Solve the tips first, that will help you in recognition. Then just make the three same tip colors on one face.


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## sneaklyfox (Mar 27, 2013)

MarcelP said:


> Hey, you are back! Hope you had a great vacation!



Thanks! It was good, but I'm glad to be home. I certainly do not miss the bugs. It wasn't really that buggy but I still somehow managed to attract what mosquito population there was and got myself 50+ bites. They itch like crazy.

Good luck on your upcoming comp. I would still like to go to my first...


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## moralsh (Mar 27, 2013)

MarcelP said:


> I just looked at your WCA profile.. It's apperantly not that easy.. LOL



That was then, now is now , in fact I might probably have ended with a sub 30 average if that cutoff wasn't there, just two bad solves.

I used to solve it without method and learned keyhole with a video of Erik A. (I like not having to write down his last name) a couple of days before the comp, but I'm sure you can do it better!


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## MarcelP (Mar 28, 2013)

Ao5 with Panshi.

I have been thinking about using this cube in the competition. Not sure yet.

I have doing great averages. But as soon as I turn on the camera, the solves become cramped and way too fastturning. All in all this not so bad:

5. 29.55 D2 R2 D2 L2 B2 D B2 U L2 B2 U B' U' F R' L' B' D F L2 D' U'
6. 26.65 U F2 L2 D2 L2 U' B2 D B2 F2 U F' U' L' U' R' L2 B2 U2 B' U2
7. 27.68 D' F2 U2 R2 F2 U' B2 R2 U' F2 R2 F D' F' R L D' R2 L' D R // messed up this one..
8. 30.29 L2 D' B2 D2 L2 U R2 F2 L2 B2 U' L' D2 R D' F' R' B D2 L2
9. 25.21 B2 D2 F2 D F2 U F2 D R2 L2 U2 R' B' L D F' R D B L F U2

[video=youtube_share;_OjnvUsJ6I8]http://youtu.be/_OjnvUsJ6I8[/video]


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## MarcelP (Mar 28, 2013)

I did a an Ao5 on a Zhanchi and had a sub 20 in there. I don't have that many sub 20 on video to I thought let's post that aswel.



Spoiler



1. 27.55 D2 B2 U' B2 U L2 D' B2 U2 R2 U' L' D2 U L2 B D' F D2 B R U2
2. 19.32 B2 R2 D B2 F2 D L2 D L2 B2 D2 F R' L U2 B F2 D' R' B R'
3. 30.74 F2 U2 R2 F2 L2 U F2 L2 U2 L2 D2 L' B' R2 D F' U L2 B2 F2 R U2 // ofcourse freaked out by the previous solve 
4. 26.48 U' F2 L2 U B2 R2 U R2 B2 R2 U2 B' D2 U2 R' B D F2 R' D2 B2 D'
5. 29.00 L2 D' F2 R2 D B2 F2 D2 R2 F U B' L' D' R2 B2 R U2 B2 U

[video=youtube_share;GN0-69qi6sU]http://youtu.be/GN0-69qi6sU[/video]


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## Gordon (Mar 28, 2013)

Well, that is really a nice solve. Now do five of them next Monday and you will have a great day


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## Kattenvriendin (Mar 28, 2013)

Haha yeah exactly!!


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## MarcelP (Mar 28, 2013)

If that happens I am going to buy everyone drinks.. LOL When hell freezes over will come sooner I think


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## Kattenvriendin (Mar 28, 2013)

You're on!


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## MarcelP (Apr 2, 2013)

Well the AvG1 competition was great fun. Always nice to see the super fastest people on earth like Mats Valk, Rowe Hessler and Erik Akkersdijk doing their stuff. I had been doing very good with my averages the last few weeks. I was truely averaging 26 seconds on the 3 X 3. Two weeks before the event I decided to go to white cross training only (where I normally train color neutral). Slowly my times got worse. I figured that must have been a fluke. Well, the few days before the event I think I must have done at least 1000 solves. My times where no where near 26 seconds.. I had actually lost all my cubing skills. Lookahead was back to 0%. On the compettion day I had great fun racing against HCFONG and KATTENVRIENDIN and two other guys. My times where actually getting better again with a few sub 25 but most around 29 seconds.. At the time the 3 X 3 even started I was not nervous at all, but as expected I had no look ahead and in almost all solves I messed up the (newly learned) OLL's.. resulting in awefull times. Fortunatly on 2 X 2 and 4 X 4 I did great.. The results are not up yet but if I remember correctly I had:
3 X 3: a sub 30 single and 33 average
2 X 2: a sub 9 single and 13 average
4 X 4: a sub 3 minute single and 3 and a half minute average
Pyra: a 25 seconds single (and no clue about average)

So, it could have been a lot worse. I am very pleased with the results.


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## moralsh (Apr 2, 2013)

Wow, It's very nice of you to not beat me officially yet, guess I'll survive until june , you've beaten my pyra maybe my 2x2x2 times though 

I forced me to 2-look OLL for the comp as I was faster that way, but I'm sure learning and using OLL is faster on the long term.

About training, I suck solving CN but like it a lot to train, I feel it improves my lookahead on white instead of making it worse.

I should start solving te 4x4x4, I have no idea where am I, other than that glad you and all the rest had fun there, waiting for some videos and photos now


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## MarcelP (Apr 2, 2013)

moralsh said:


> Wow, It's very nice of you to not beat me officially yet



LOL, if I could I would have.. From now on I will only solve CN and do stuff I like. Nothing matters more than having fun at cubing. Trying to get the best times possible was really a kind of no fun. I don't know the english word but next time I will just do my normal thing towards the competition. Also, I guess I totally suck at performing on the spot.  That will not change fast I guess.. I need to do more competitions. But with a family and all that is not going to change. So I will stick with 2 per year or so. Oh and.. I have only beaten your Pyra single.. My slowest time was well over two minutes.. LOL I have not yet learned any method for the Pyraminx.


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## sneaklyfox (Apr 2, 2013)

Well I'm envious you've been to your second comp already. I have yet to go to my first!


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## kunparekh18 (Apr 2, 2013)

sneaklyfox said:


> Well I'm envious you've been to your second comp already. I have yet to go to my first!



There was a comp in Canada recently right? Montreal Open I think.


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## sneaklyfox (Apr 2, 2013)

I have no idea. I suppose. Montreal is two hours away and I'm too busy with my family. I think I would only be going to National Capital Region comps as that's the closest to me. I believe there's one near the end of May every year so I'm hoping I'll get to go then.


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## MarcelP (Apr 2, 2013)

sneaklyfox said:


> I have no idea. I suppose. Montreal is two hours away and I'm too busy with my family. I think I would only be going to National Capital Region comps as that's the closest to me. I believe there's one near the end of May every year so I'm hoping I'll get to go then.



As you have been a professional violinist I suspect you can handle the stage fright a lot better than me  But I should warn you that your times will be off


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## sneaklyfox (Apr 2, 2013)

I'm expecting my times to be off. Depending on how fast I am then, I will expect my comp times to be slower. Also, since it's my first comp, I will have low expectations. I think for my first one I will be happy with a sub-20 average. As for stage fright, I am so used to it when I am playing my violin but I think I am different for other things. For example, I hate public speaking (though I'm much better at it now than when I was young)! I have performed music in front of big audiences many times but it would be my first time "performing" the cube in an official competition.


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## Kattenvriendin (Apr 2, 2013)

Hey Marcel! Ordered the milky I see heheh

He almost kissed mine, so in love with it he was *giggle*


Fun side effect from the racing: I have muscle aches in my fingers.. ROFL!! Never had that last year hahahaha (never raced before).

Oh Marcel that v-cube 4 is due to arrive tomorrow.. hopefully I'll be home from work!


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## mdekoning (Apr 2, 2013)

MarcelP said:


> Well the AvG1 competition was great fun. Always nice to see the super fastest people on earth like Mats Valk, Rowe Hessler and Erik Akkersdijk doing their stuff. I had been doing very good with my averages the last few weeks. I was truely averaging 26 seconds on the 3 X 3. Two weeks before the event I decided to go to white cross training only (where I normally train color neutral). Slowly my times got worse. I figured that must have been a fluke. Well, the few days before the event I think I must have done at least 1000 solves. My times where no where near 26 seconds.. I had actually lost all my cubing skills. Lookahead was back to 0%. On the compettion day I had great fun racing against HCFONG and KATTENVRIENDIN and two other guys. My times where actually getting better again with a few sub 25 but most around 29 seconds.. At the time the 3 X 3 even started I was not nervous at all, but as expected I had no look ahead and in almost all solves I messed up the (newly learned) OLL's.. resulting in awefull times. Fortunatly on 2 X 2 and 4 X 4 I did great.. The results are not up yet but if I remember correctly I had:
> 3 X 3: a sub 30 single and 33 average
> 2 X 2: a sub 9 single and 13 average
> 4 X 4: a sub 3 minute single and 3 and a half minute average
> ...


I was one of the other two guys racing in the afternoon, I believe the other guy was Callum Goodyear. It was great fun.


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## Kattenvriendin (Apr 2, 2013)

Ahhh hey you  And yep, that was him.

It was a LOT of fun, I wanna do that again alright *grin*

Ow fingers.. but who cares


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## MarcelP (Apr 2, 2013)

mdekoning said:


> I was one of the other two guys racing in the afternoon, I believe the other guy was Callum Goodyear. It was great fun.



Yep, I did not know your name. I noticed Callum's name on the 4 X 4 results as he finished after me  Btw, Callum raced us with one hand and finished first most of the times.. LOL.



Kattenvriendin said:


> Oh Marcel that v-cube 4 is due to arrive tomorrow.. hopefully I'll be home from work!



Great! My pink Guhong did not arrive.. Instead is was my black 4 X 4 Shengshou that I will be modding all over the place.

EDIT: BTW, I just filmed my first Ao12 post competetion... All sub 30... Arrgggghhh


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## Kattenvriendin (Apr 2, 2013)

I even gave Callum a WR on the 4x4.. brought a solved cube to the table. Imagine our faces when I pulled the thing off and we both saw "hey.. it's solved!"

Had a good laugh on that one hehehe


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## MarcelP (Apr 2, 2013)

My times are getting back to normal. Why can't I do this just on a competition? LOL

37. 29.30 R2 D2 L2 D2 U B2 L2 D R2 D' B R U' L' F R D2 F2 U'
38. 29.78 B2 F2 D' L2 B2 U L2 F2 D' R2 D2 L' F2 D2 B' U' F2 L' B' U' R'
39. 26.42 B2 F2 U' R2 B2 R2 D2 F2 D' R2 U R L' B' L B2 F' D' L2 U' B U
40. 25.00 B2 L2 U2 R2 F2 U' R2 F2 U' R2 B' F U B2 R B D U2 R B'
41. 25.60 B2 R2 D R2 D2 F2 U B2 L2 D2 L2 B' D' B' D L' B' D B F2 U2

PS, color neutral solves.

[video=youtube_share;12Pk7CyFxDQ]http://youtu.be/12Pk7CyFxDQ[/video]


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## moralsh (Apr 2, 2013)

MarcelP said:


> EDIT: BTW, I just filmed my first Ao12 post competetion... All sub 30... Arrgggghhh



I think we all know that your odd times were the competition ones, you are more sub-30 than I am and I am clearly sub-30 right now



Kattenvriendin said:


> I even gave Callum a WR on the 4x4.. brought a solved cube to the table. Imagine our faces when I pulled the thing off and we both saw "hey.. it's solved!"
> 
> Had a good laugh on that one hehehe



Did exactly the same on my only comp, also judging 4x4x4

Did any of you film any of your solves?


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## Kattenvriendin (Apr 2, 2013)

My solve was filmed but it will not be public.


whahahha Marcel whistling along with radio heheh


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## MarcelP (Apr 2, 2013)

None of my solves where filmed (thank god..  )

I felt so happy that I could solve color neutral again.. LOL way more fun..


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## Kattenvriendin (Apr 2, 2013)

But... you can solve color neutral at comp too you know... ?


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## MarcelP (Apr 2, 2013)

Yeah, I know, but before I went to white only where my white solves faster (in an Ao50 -100) than the CN solves.. I think I will totally forget about solving white for now.


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## moralsh (Apr 2, 2013)

Kattenvriendin said:


> My solve was filmed but it will not be public.
> 
> 
> whahahha Marcel whistling along with radio heheh



awww  guess I'll have to go up there then to see you, at least to visit the Netherlands, because mixing Holidays with a comp with my girlfriend seems very unlikely


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## MarcelP (Apr 3, 2013)

Okay, it's Consta mod/ Florian mod time.. Wow, never knew that there where a million pieces in a 4 X 4..


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## Gordon (Apr 3, 2013)

That's something I wanted to do for a long time... But I'm sort of nervous to mess up the whole cube. But I think that could be my next project after the Tuttminx.

I'm courious about the result and am looking forward for your result


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## MarcelP (Apr 3, 2013)

Gordon said:


> But I'm sort of nervous to mess up the whole cube.



That's why I ordered one special for modding. If I destroy it, no problem  So far in half an hour, I did all the intern big edge pieces (12 pcs) and the small edge internals (20 pcs?) and 5 centers.. Not so bad..


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## Kattenvriendin (Apr 3, 2013)

Well done!!

Hopefully you will be able to get it back together. If not.. ship them pieces to me and I will assemble it for you and return it again, no prob


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## MarcelP (Apr 3, 2013)

ok, thnx. ps your inbox is full


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## Kattenvriendin (Apr 3, 2013)

Yeah.. muppet filled it up.. lol just got the mail and emptied a whole lot out.


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## hcfong (Apr 3, 2013)

I would say Konsta mod is enough on a 4x4. I haven't tried Florian, but I've heard people say it actually makes your 4x4 worse. It does work on a 5x5 though, again from what I've heard.


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## jayefbe (Apr 4, 2013)

*Hi, Marcel from Holland here*

I like the Florian mod on SS 4x4. Although, from what I've heard, the v4 is more prone to over modding than the v3. I did both Konsta and Florian on my v4, WAY better than out of the box, but a little loose for my tastes. I'm looking for a v3 to mod the same way, or should that not work out, get another v4 and just take off less plastic for the Florian mod.


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## Lchu613 (Apr 4, 2013)

I'm planning to keep my 4x4 unmodded and try to break it in really well, since I don't really think it NEEDS modding, but if it turns out badly, I guess I might have no choice.

I hope I don't have to though, my friend's is unmodded and it's pretty good, and I'm so lazy I make a potato look lively lol


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## kunparekh18 (Apr 4, 2013)

*Re: Hi, Marcel from Holland here*

I plan on modding my 4x4 after some breaking in. Let's see.

Sent from my A75 using Tapatalk 2


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## Kattenvriendin (Apr 4, 2013)

Lchu613: If you don't think modding is needed.. I wager you are not heavy on the inner slicing? Both v3 and v4 lock on that.


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## MarcelP (Apr 4, 2013)

I really don't need the mod myself. But I saw Cyoubx's mod video and decided I want to try it out. My times average between 3 - 5 minutes so I am the last person that needs a mod. If you are Mats or Feliks and then a mod might be the difference between a 30 seconds solve and a 28 seconds solve.. LOL..


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## Gordon (Apr 4, 2013)

I'm thinking about to order another SS 4x4 just to mod it and see the difference to an unmodded one. 
But then again, I already have ordered lots of cubes this year already and it's only April. Eight more months time to order cubes.


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## MarcelP (Apr 4, 2013)

LOL.. No one needs any cube. Btw, I ordered this 4 X 4 less than two weeks ago from Fasttech.com. They are really fast these days. Fast and cheap


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## MarcelP (Apr 4, 2013)

I finished modding the 4 X 4. I just solved it two times and it's a whole different sensation.. I will try to capture some of that on video tomorrow..


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## MarcelP (Apr 5, 2013)

I finished the modding. I love my new cube but I never ever going to do that again.. I am just not that kind of a handy person.
[video=youtube_share;meKR0fQww2c]http://youtu.be/meKR0fQww2c[/video]


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## mark49152 (Apr 5, 2013)

Do you find that doing 4x4 helps your 3x3 solving?


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## Kattenvriendin (Apr 5, 2013)

Wow.. that looks like it worked out well for you!

You could try filing a slit in the screw on the white face so you can get it out using a bigger flat screwdriver.

Do let us know how it fares after a wee while of breaking in


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## MarcelP (Apr 5, 2013)

mark49152 said:


> Do you find that doing 4x4 helps your 3x3 solving?



When I was averaging 40 - 50 seconds I bought my first 4 X 4. And then when I did some 4 X 4 solves (like whole evenings) then the 3 X 3 seemed to easy to solve. I got better averages instantly. Now these days it does nothing for my 3 X 3 times. My times are very bad lately. Today I had my first good Ao50 in a long while. I had a 28 something on color neutral.



Kattenvriendin said:


> Do let us know how it fares after a wee while of breaking in



Well, I did more than 25 solves today and it's allready 100% different. In fact, it's allready just as smooth as my old 4 X 4, only this one turns much better with OLL and PLL. One big advantage for me now is that most OLL's and PLL work for me the first time. Normally I screw up 3 or 4 OLL/PLL before I manage to get one right. This cost me always 30 - 50 seconds in a solve. Now most algs are first time right


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## MarcelP (Apr 5, 2013)

I just did an Ao12 on my yellow force cube. And this one has black stickers. Normally I average at about 40 seconds because the black really throws me off. Now I did an color neutral session. Big difference. 


Spoiler



Rubik's cube
Apr 5, 2013 7:15:22 PM - 7:35:13 PM

Mean: 29.17
Standard deviation: 3.33
Best Time: 21.95
Worst Time: 34.51

Best average of 5: 27.91
4-8 - (21.95) (32.39) 25.37 28.39 29.98

Best average of 12: 29.36
1-12 - 28.60 29.00 34.01 (21.95) 32.39 25.37 28.39 29.98 (34.51) 29.00 27.70 29.17

1. 28.60 U L2 D F2 L2 D' R2 U' R2 U2 B' R2 L B L B R F' D B2 U'
2. 29.00 F2 R2 B2 U' F2 D R2 D U F2 U2 R' B' U2 F' U' F2 R2 D R' B2
3. 34.01 D2 B2 F2 D L2 D R2 B2 U' F2 L2 F U' R' L' F U B R' U'
4. 21.95 U L2 U' L2 D' B2 D2 U' L2 U B2 R U R2 F U F2 U' R B' U2
5. 32.39 U' R2 U2 R2 U2 F2 R2 D' R2 D' B2 L' U2 F' L' B2 D2 F U R' U2
6. 25.37 U' B2 L2 D' B2 D L2 U F2 D2 F2 L' F U L2 F D' U B' R L'
7. 28.39 B2 U' R2 D' B2 U L2 F2 R2 U2 R' B R L' U' F L' B L D2
8. 29.98 R2 B2 D R2 D2 R2 U' R2 U2 B2 U2 B' F U' F' U2 F2 D L' F2 R U'
9. 34.51 U B2 L2 U L2 D' F2 L2 D B2 U2 R U' R2 L' F' D' R' L' B D'
10. 29.00 R2 U R2 F2 U2 B2 D' F2 U' R2 D R D R B' F R' D L2 B D' U'
11. 27.70 D2 R2 D R2 F2 D' B2 D B2 U' F2 R B2 F2 D2 F U' F' D' L' U'
12. 29.17 R2 U' R2 U B2 L2 F2 U' R2 U' R' B' U' R D L' F2 R' D F


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## Username (Apr 5, 2013)

MarcelP said:


> I just did an Ao12 on my yellow force cube. And this one has black stickers. Normally I average at about 40 seconds because the black really throws me off. Now I did an color neutral session. Big difference.
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> ...



Do you like the feel of the force cube over a regular cube? I've been thinking about making 6 myself.


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## Kattenvriendin (Apr 5, 2013)

Ahhh yellow!!

It's got a lot of experience because it spoke to all the cubes in the cabinet before making its way to you. Must be part of the cause  lol



VERY nice set of times! WOW!


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## MarcelP (Apr 5, 2013)

Username said:


> Do you like the feel of the force cube over a regular cube? I've been thinking about making 6 myself.



No, there is no difference compared to the normal colored Zhanchi. It's just mental  I feel that my normal stickerless still feel different, but that is because they have no stickers which also affect the 'clacking' during solves. Of course it's also lighter without stickers.



Kattenvriendin said:


> Ahhh yellow!!
> 
> It's got a lot of experience because it spoke to all the cubes in the cabinet before making its way to you. Must be part of the cause  lol
> 
> ...



It's still lubed with your lube. And it's has a flawless tension.. Amazing. Thanks!


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## Kattenvriendin (Apr 5, 2013)

Ahhh great!! I am so glad you like it so much 

Tension.. yeah.. I am very anal about that ROFL. You should have seen me on the 4x4 this morning, and this afternoon. It involves 1/8th of screw turns and all that.. madness LOL I like them to be just right, same on the 3x3s


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## MarcelP (Apr 7, 2013)

Nice one:

16.49 D2 F2 R2 U B2 U' F2 R2 U' R2 B R2 F' R' D2 U2 B2 L' F' U2

[video=youtube_share;ipOLwpL47X8]http://youtu.be/ipOLwpL47X8[/video]


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## Kattenvriendin (Apr 7, 2013)

Ohhh VERY nice indeed.. wow time


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## MarcelP (Apr 7, 2013)

Kattenvriendin said:


> Do let us know how it fares after a wee while of breaking in



[video=youtube_share;9aGocO9GBcI]http://youtu.be/9aGocO9GBcI[/video]


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## Kattenvriendin (Apr 7, 2013)

Cool! Looking good  I bet it is smoother than the v-cube 4. And yes, it does make the cube look quite nifty huh hehe


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## Lchu613 (Apr 7, 2013)

Kattenvriendin said:


> Lchu613: If you don't think modding is needed.. I wager you are not heavy on the inner slicing? Both v3 and v4 lock on that.



I'm not heavy on any kind of slicing on 4x4... I don't have one yet

I've been pretty much exclusively 3x3 for the year that I've been cubing lol


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## Kattenvriendin (Apr 7, 2013)

Ahhhh well.. just wait till you start doing inner slices then when you are getting a SS 

But you could do this mod and it will be sorted with that.


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## Lchu613 (Apr 7, 2013)

But... idontwannamodstuffcauseimtoolazy!
(Try reading that)


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## Gordon (Apr 8, 2013)

I think I will have to do the same to my cube...
Did you cut the stickers that are next to the 'new holes' or do they fit anyway?


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## MarcelP (Apr 8, 2013)

I cut off rounded pieces. After the mod the stickers will not fit the entire surface of a cubie.


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## Kattenvriendin (Apr 8, 2013)

There ARE stickershops that sell stickers ready made for the modded cube. I really wonder how that SS feels now Marcel  Will have to wait 53 days though lol


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## Kattenvriendin (Apr 9, 2013)

*cough* inbox..


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## KongShou (Apr 9, 2013)

MarcelP said:


> Nice one:
> 
> 16.49 D2 F2 R2 U B2 U' F2 R2 U' R2 B R2 F' R' D2 U2 B2 L' F' U2
> 
> [video=youtube_share;ipOLwpL47X8]http://youtu.be/ipOLwpL47X8[/video]



dude how many cube do u have man, looks insane. u need to turn faster if you want to improve. ur turning it way too slow. at ur times u dont need looks ahead yet so turn faster. FASTER!!!


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## Kattenvriendin (Apr 9, 2013)

UR should lay off a little.. geez.

besides your advice sucks.. but that is something other people will throw at you too.


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## littlewing1208 (Apr 10, 2013)

Marcel, after modding your SS 4x4 did you have to almost bottom the springs out? Seems that removing the nubs on the 8 corners makes the pieces fit tighter so to make the cube tensioned tight enough that it isn't too loose I had to bottom the springs out and then back out just a hair. I think I might put an extra washer in there so I don't have to get it that tight without some spring tension.


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## Kattenvriendin (Apr 10, 2013)

The washer should solve it. Just finished my mods. Need to assemble still. It was already tight before modding.. wondering if I am going to need washers.. wait and see 

I might insert the tightest springs I got from vcube.


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## MarcelP (Apr 10, 2013)

KongShou said:


> dude how many cube do u have man, looks insane. u need to turn faster if you want to improve. ur turning it way too slow. at ur times u dont need looks ahead yet so turn faster. FASTER!!!



Thanks for the heads up.. I think I am improving alright (for an old guy). If I turn faster, I can not look ahead. Resulting in slower times.



littlewing1208 said:


> Marcel, after modding your SS 4x4 did you have to almost bottom the springs out? Seems that removing the nubs on the 8 corners makes the pieces fit tighter so to make the cube tensioned tight enough that it isn't too loose I had to bottom the springs out and then back out just a hair. I think I might put an extra washer in there so I don't have to get it that tight without some spring tension.



No, I loosened my cube since it was a new one that was real tight (with accent from Austin Powers 'toight like a tiger') to begin with.


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## Kattenvriendin (Apr 10, 2013)

Just assembled mine again. Next time: Konsta only. I don't have the improvement you have.


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## MarcelP (Apr 10, 2013)

Kattenvriendin said:


> Just assembled mine again. Next time: Konsta only. I don't have the improvement you have.



How does it turn compared to before?


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## Kattenvriendin (Apr 10, 2013)

To before what? 

I did it in two stages. I liked it better with just the konsta mod. If I have the inner slices to my liking now the outer layers are too loose. I guess it needs a compromise in tensioning. I am not too strong with my ring finger.. so it could be that.

I ordered a new one in any case (from fasttech it was only 5 euros with registered mail and the tenoff coupon) and will do just the konsta on that one. It should hopefully be here in 10-15 days roughly (is what the site said in any case) and see what happens and which I like best. But most likely the konsta only, to fix the slices locking.


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## littlewing1208 (Apr 10, 2013)

Yeah, my florian on my SSV4 was minimal but with that nub gone on the edges of the corners, I have to tension it fully (and it's still loose) but when the springs bottom out, then the outer layers spin like garbage so either stiffer springs or a washer is needed.


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## Kattenvriendin (Apr 10, 2013)

I didn't have to change much where the total tension was concerned.. that is the fun bit. I know how far the screws were in roughly, before modding, and that hasn't changed. It's just one way is one too loose and the other way is not ok either for me lol

It COULD be that I am critical.. Marcel knows how I tension my cubes.. so.. LOL


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## MarcelP (Apr 11, 2013)

I think I have a PB on fewest moves weekly comp 15. I have not posted the solution because I want to check tomorrow if I can make an even better solution. Also I am going to do an Ao100 color neutral. I want to know where I stand these days. Have not timed a lot this week. In fact I have not practiced a lot. I will be using a brand new black Panshi with Izo stickers.


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## Schmidt (Apr 11, 2013)

If you follow the guidelines for the weekly comp you only have one hour to complete the fmc.


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## Gordon (Apr 12, 2013)

MarcelP said:


> ... I will be using a brand new black Panshi with Izo stickers.



Then your Panshi finaly arrived? Cool. Mine came on Monday, but I had to sticker it first. I thought I ordered it prestickered.


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## MarcelP (Apr 12, 2013)

Gordon said:


> Then your Panshi finaly arrived? Cool. Mine came on Monday, but I had to sticker it first. I thought I ordered it prestickered.


Yeah, mine came unstickered too. I liked that I got two sets of hlfbrights Izo's. They are awesome.


Schmidt said:


> If you follow the guidelines for the weekly comp you only have one hour to complete the fmc.



Yep, I wrote down my backup solution in 15 minutes, meaning I ave about 45 minutes left to check it for improvement.


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## Echo Cubing (Apr 12, 2013)

wow,MarcelP,this thread is quiet hot!you are popular.
seems i saw you everywhere in this forum


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## kunparekh18 (Apr 12, 2013)

*Re: Hi, Marcel from Holland here*



cherry said:


> wow,MarcelP,this thread is quiet hot!you are popular.
> seems i saw you everywhere in this forum



Exactly!! 

Sent from my A75 using Tapatalk 2


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## Gordon (Apr 12, 2013)

I just saw your 4x4 times of the weekly competition, and they kind of demotivate me 

Let's go 4 weeks back in time:


MarcelP said:


> I wish I had you 4 X 4 times..





Gordon said:


> I bet you will pass my 4x4 times soon.



I'll give you a week until your first sub 2 mins in 4x4...


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## MarcelP (Apr 12, 2013)

Gordon said:


> I just saw your 4x4 times of the weekly competition, and they kind of demotivate me
> 
> 
> I'll give you a week until your first sub 2 mins in 4x4...



LOL, please don't be demotivated. What are your times?
I was actually more happy with the FMC of 46. ;


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## MarcelP (Apr 12, 2013)

Okay, I did an Ao100 color neutral. I have a new technique. I only go for obvious crosses. If nothing is really obvious, then I go to white cross. That way I choose sometimes a white cross over a relative easy (but not very obvious like three conneced edes) other color cross. 

I have filmed a few solves:

31. 26.70 U' L2 D2 R2 B2 U2 L2 D R2 L2 F L2 U' B F2 L' U F D' R L
32. 28.80 U' B2 L2 D' R2 U' F2 R2 B2 D R' F2 D R B L' F' L F L' D
33. 33.10 D' L2 U2 F2 D' F2 U R2 F2 D2 U2 B' L2 B R' D B2 L B2 U2 F' U'
34. 29.28 F2 L2 B2 R2 D U2 L2 U B2 R2 U' F' R' U' F' U R2 D' F' L U'
35. 27.05 D L2 U F2 U L2 D2 R2 D2 U' B' U2 R' U B' D L' F' U2 L2 F' U
36. 28.12 F2 U2 B2 F2 U' L2 U' B2 U L2 F D R U F2 R B' F2 R B2
37. 28.66 D2 R2 U L2 U F2 U B2 R2 F2 L2 B R2 D' F L B' D R' B2 R2 U
38. 27.79 D F2 U R2 B2 D2 U' B2 D' L2 U L U' F2 L F' U2 L' B2 D2 R

[video=youtube_share;pACAMvB1DDg]http://youtu.be/pACAMvB1DDg[/video]
Ao100 stats:


Spoiler



Mean: 28.38
Average: 28.48
Best time: 12.25
Median: 28.70
Worst time: 37.50
Standard deviation: 3.82

Best average of 5: 25.48
9-13 - 26.27 (23.21) 26.01 24.16 (27.89)

Best average of 12: 26.70
2-13 - 28.36 25.48 25.89 (30.30) 25.25 29.34 28.31 26.27 (23.21) 26.01 24.16 27.89


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## MarcelP (Apr 12, 2013)

In the end I switched to my old Panshi (which is 100% smoother  :

71. 29.68 F2 D' B2 L2 D B2 L2 B2 R2 D L B' L' D' U2 F D' B R2 L' U'
72. 25.20 R2 U' R2 D2 F2 U R2 D L2 U2 R2 F R B' L B' F2 D' F2 U R D
73. 28.09 L2 B2 F2 L2 D R2 D R2 B2 F2 U' R' U F' L' U B F' R U2 F
74. 25.03 L2 F2 D' R2 U' R2 B2 U B2 L2 U2 R' L B' U2 R B' R2 U R L2
75. 26.28 D' L2 U B2 D' L2 U L2 B2 R2 U F' U' F R' F' L U2 L' U2


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## Schmidt (Apr 12, 2013)

MarcelP said:


> Oh and by the way I got a new PB of 12.25


....or is that a mistake


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## MarcelP (Apr 12, 2013)

Schmidt said:


> ....or is that a mistake



When did I say that?


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## Schmidt (Apr 12, 2013)

It says " Best 12.25 " in the spoiler.


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## MarcelP (Apr 12, 2013)

Ah that is a mistake. I stopped the timer once and forgot to remove. The best time was 23 something.. Not so fast today


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## Schmidt (Apr 12, 2013)

That explains the missing " YAY " reaction


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## Gordon (Apr 12, 2013)

*Hi, Marcel from Holland here*



MarcelP said:


> LOL, please don't be demotivated. What are your times?
> I was actually more happy with the FMC of 46. ;



I had two sub three mins solves so far and usually I average around 3:30 - 4:00... So waaay behind you


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## MarcelP (Apr 13, 2013)

A nice one:
Three edges of cross connected ...

18.89 D' L2 D F2 D' L2 D R2 U L2 U2 L R2 B F' D' R' B L2 U' F2 U2
[video=youtube_share;CEYC0vUUSxM]http://youtu.be/CEYC0vUUSxM[/video]


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## cxinlee (Apr 13, 2013)

Nice! You made a mistake when you said that it was 18.86 when it should be 18.89. The solve is really smooth and I really like your turning style.


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## JianhanC (Apr 13, 2013)

That's a very pleasant cross to execute  10.44


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## MarcelP (Apr 13, 2013)

JianhanC said:


> That's a very pleasant cross to execute  10.44





Oh man.. I tried the scramble a few times after. All I got where low twentis ..LOL 10 seconds is awesome..



cxinlee said:


> Nice! You made a mistake when you said that it was 18.86 when it should be 18.89. The solve is really smooth and I really like your turning style.



Thanks! I think I totally suck..


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## Kattenvriendin (Apr 13, 2013)

First time in a while I pick up the 3x3 again.. oh weird.. tiny.. oh messed up the cross 

Whahahaha! I solved it right after and I think it would have been a nice time, if not for the cross *snort*


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## JianhanC (Apr 13, 2013)

MarcelP said:


> Oh man.. I tried the scramble a few times after. All I got where low twentis ..LOL 10 seconds is awesome..
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks! I think I totally suck..



I'm sure you'll get there soon. You have plenty of commuting time to practise after all


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## sneaklyfox (Apr 13, 2013)

MarcelP said:


> A nice one:
> Three edges of cross connected ...
> 
> 18.89 D' L2 D F2 D' L2 D R2 U L2 U2 L R2 B F' D' R' B L2 U' F2 U2



Nice scramble, Marcel! 12.56 on first solve of the day!


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## MarcelP (Apr 13, 2013)

sneaklyfox said:


> Nice scramble, Marcel! 12.56 on first solve of the day!



Yeah I really know how to pick them huh? LOL, if I get a sub 20 solves it must be a special scramble. Now these days I get a sub 20 every 500 solves or so.


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## sneaklyfox (Apr 13, 2013)

MarcelP said:


> Yeah I really know how to pick them huh? LOL, if I get a sub 20 solves it must be a special scramble. Now these days I get a sub 20 every 500 solves or so.



Yeah, you do find good scrambles. I just hope I don't break my PB single with one of them because I don't count other people's easy scrambles.


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## MarcelP (Apr 14, 2013)

sneaklyfox said:


> Yeah, you do find good scrambles. I just hope I don't break my PB single with one of them because I don't count other people's easy scrambles.



OMG, first solve of the day: 1. *19.48 * D' L2 F2 U F2 D' F2 R2 U L2 F U F2 R2 F' D L' D U2 B2 U'

On second try I had a 17something...  Whhoo, what a promising start of an Ao100.. LOL


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## Kattenvriendin (Apr 14, 2013)

LOL!! Great time! I made a 31.81

Man those cubies on the 3x3 are big.. lol


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## MarcelP (Apr 14, 2013)

LOL, yeah switching from a 4 X 4 is weird huh? 

I think this is going to be a great Ao50 or 100, I had a PB Mo3 (21.66) in the first 12:



Spoiler



Rubik's cube
Apr 14, 2013 11:16:43 AM - 11:30:45 AM

Mean: 24.48
Standard deviation: 3.82
Best Time: 17.57
Worst Time: 29.43

Best average of 5: 22.75
3-7 - 19.48 (18.95) (26.56) 23.07 25.71

Best average of 12: 24.67
1-12 - 19.48 29.42 (29.43) 18.95 26.56 23.07 25.71 28.03 24.35 (17.57) 25.39 25.78

1. 19.48 D' L2 F2 U F2 D' F2 R2 U L2 F U F2 R2 F' D L' D U2 B2 U'
2. 29.42 B2 F2 R2 U B2 R2 D2 L2 U' F2 L2 B L D2 B2 L' D' B L2 U2 B
3. 29.43 D2 B2 R2 B2 U B2 D' F2 L2 U2 R2 F' U F2 L U2 B' F R' B R
4. 18.95 R2 D F2 R2 L2 D' U2 B2 R2 L2 D R B L2 F D2 L2 U' R L2 B2
5. 26.56 U F2 D' R2 U2 L2 U2 F2 R2 U' R2 B R' D2 U' R' D R B L F2 R2
6. 23.07 R2 D' U' B2 R2 U R2 U' F2 D' U' F' R D2 L D' R U F2 L B' R
7. 25.71 F2 L2 U2 F2 L2 D' L2 U R2 L2 F2 R' U' B D' F L' U' B' R2 F R'
8. 28.03 D R2 F2 R2 U' R2 D2 U B2 R2 U2 R F' D B F2 L D R B' L'
9. 24.35 D U L2 U B2 U' R2 L2 U2 L2 B2 L D' R2 U' L' D B F L F U2
10. 17.57 R2 B2 D' L2 B2 R2 U L2 D' B2 U L' B D2 F L' D L2 F' L' B2 D'
11. 25.39 F2 D2 F2 U' R2 D2 B2 L2 U' L2 F2 R' B' R F D R' F2 D2 L' D2 U2
12. 25.78 D2 B2 L2 D L2 U' B2 U' L2 B U' R2 L' U R' D' L' D' L' U'


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## pipkiksass (Apr 14, 2013)

*Re: Hi, Marcel from Holland here*

Wow, 3 sub 20s in the first 12 solves... That's almost as many as I've had ever!!  Good luck.


----------



## MarcelP (Apr 14, 2013)

pipkiksass said:


> Wow, 3 sub 20s in the first 12 solves... That's almost as many as I've had ever!!  Good luck.



Yeah I know... I have done 20 so far and I have three more sub 23's in there.. Amazing..

EDIT: Oh and.. all color neutral


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## Kattenvriendin (Apr 14, 2013)

Well done!! Wow


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## MarcelP (Apr 14, 2013)

Ok, I did Ao50 because I felt the times where going slower towards the 50.. Still I had an 26.26 average, which is EXACTLY the same as my current Ao100 PB.. I feel pretty good about that. Since this is pure color neutral..



Spoiler



Mean: 26.26
Standard deviation: 3.41
Best Time: 17.57
Worst Time: 32.57

Best average of 5: 22.75
3-7 - 19.48 (18.95) (26.56) 23.07 25.71

Best average of 12: 24.12
3-14 - 19.48 18.95 26.56 23.07 25.71 (28.03) 24.35 (17.57) 25.39 25.78 26.50 25.42

1. 29.43 D2 B2 R2 B2 U B2 D' F2 L2 U2 R2 F' U F2 L U2 B' F R' B R
2. 29.42 B2 F2 R2 U B2 R2 D2 L2 U' F2 L2 B L D2 B2 L' D' B L2 U2 B
3. 19.48 D' L2 F2 U F2 D' F2 R2 U L2 F U F2 R2 F' D L' D U2 B2 U'
4. 18.95 R2 D F2 R2 L2 D' U2 B2 R2 L2 D R B L2 F D2 L2 U' R L2 B2
5. 26.56 U F2 D' R2 U2 L2 U2 F2 R2 U' R2 B R' D2 U' R' D R B L F2 R2
6. 23.07 R2 D' U' B2 R2 U R2 U' F2 D' U' F' R D2 L D' R U F2 L B' R
7. 25.71 F2 L2 U2 F2 L2 D' L2 U R2 L2 F2 R' U' B D' F L' U' B' R2 F R'
8. 28.03 D R2 F2 R2 U' R2 D2 U B2 R2 U2 R F' D B F2 L D R B' L'
9. 24.35 D U L2 U B2 U' R2 L2 U2 L2 B2 L D' R2 U' L' D B F L F U2
10. 17.57 R2 B2 D' L2 B2 R2 U L2 D' B2 U L' B D2 F L' D L2 F' L' B2 D'
11. 25.39 F2 D2 F2 U' R2 D2 B2 L2 U' L2 F2 R' B' R F D R' F2 D2 L' D2 U2
12. 25.78 D2 B2 L2 D L2 U' B2 U' L2 B U' R2 L' U R' D' L' D' L' U'
13. 26.50 D L2 D R2 B2 D F2 L2 D2 R2 U2 F' R2 L B R L2 D2 U' R' B2 U'
14. 25.42 D' B2 U2 L2 F2 D2 L2 B2 D' F2 U' B D' F2 R2 D F U' F R D' U'
15. 21.09 U L2 D2 L2 D' B2 F2 D' B2 F2 U R' D2 B R' F' R2 B2 L' B2 D2 U
16. 31.75 B2 U L2 D2 R2 F2 D U2 B2 D' B2 R' D' U R2 B' R B2 D' L' U'
17. 22.50 D F2 R2 D2 F2 D' B2 F2 U2 L2 D' R' D2 U B2 L' B F2 L' F' U2 L
18. 25.71 L2 D L2 U' B2 L2 U' B2 D' F2 U2 F' L2 F' U F2 L' U F R' B'
19. 29.40 D B2 F2 R2 U' R2 U B2 D' B2 D2 B U' R L2 D' B2 D2 F R2 L' U'
20. 23.81 D' L2 F2 L2 D' R2 L2 U F2 D U F L' B' R2 D' R2 F' D L2 F' D'
21. 23.25 R2 F2 R2 F2 L2 U' L2 D U2 R2 D F L F2 U2 L2 D2 L U' R D2
22. 24.21 F2 U R2 B2 D U2 R2 D2 F2 L2 U' B' F2 R2 D B U2 R' F D B'
23. 24.21 D B2 D2 B2 U' L2 F2 R2 U R2 U2 F L' B2 L B' R' F D' U2 R U2
24. 23.01 B2 L2 U B2 D B2 D' B2 F2 L2 D L U F R2 B' L B' L' U' F
25. 31.60 U2 F2 L2 U2 F2 L2 U F2 D R2 U2 B U' R' F2 U' B' R' B' D
26. 27.65 B2 F2 D' R2 F2 D L2 U' F2 L2 U B F2 U L' D' R D U R B'
27. 29.61 U' R2 D L2 D' R2 D F2 U L2 D' B' L2 D2 R' F L2 D2 F R D' U'
28. 30.09 D' B2 R2 D B2 L2 D2 R2 U L2 D L' F U2 L D2 R2 U B2 F L'
29. 24.82 F2 D' B2 U' B2 D' R2 D2 F2 U' R D R' B' R' U B R' U' F
30. 27.43 L2 D U2 F2 U' L2 F2 R2 U L2 U' B' U2 F2 L' B2 L2 D' B F D'
31. 27.42 F2 L2 B2 U B2 L2 F2 R2 D' U' B' F L' U' L B2 D2 R' L2 U
32. 23.82 U2 R2 U' F2 D' F2 D L2 D' B2 R2 F' U L2 B' R B' R2 L' U B U2
33. 30.50 U2 R2 F2 U' R2 F2 D L2 U R2 L2 B' R L' U B' R' U R U' L D2
34. 23.09 D U R2 D2 L2 F2 L2 D B2 F2 L2 B L' B' F' R F' D' B L F L2
35. 27.64 R2 D' L2 B2 U' R2 U2 F2 U R2 D2 F' D' U B2 F' U' R2 F' R' D2 L
36. 28.84 B2 D B2 D' U2 L2 D B2 R2 B2 D B' L' U R2 D2 F R U2 F D2
37. 24.26 D2 L2 F2 R2 U L2 F2 D' L2 U2 L2 F L' F2 L2 B' U2 B2 L2 U R' U'
38. 26.64 D R2 D2 F2 R2 B2 D F2 U' B2 U L' B' F' L2 D R D2 L' D2 F U
39. 32.57 D' F2 L2 F2 D2 U' F2 R2 U L2 U' R B2 U B' R2 F' D' U' L2 B' U2
40. 28.93 R2 D2 R2 F2 R2 L2 U' L2 B2 D' U' B R L2 B' U2 B' D2 R' B U
41. 30.45 B2 R2 D2 L2 D' F2 R2 D L2 D' U2 F R2 L' D2 F R' D R B' D U
42. 32.18 R2 F2 R2 D' R2 B2 U B2 D' F2 U B' L F' U2 R2 B U' R D
43. 23.48 B2 D' L2 U2 L2 F2 D2 F2 U' B2 U L D' B' D L F U2 F2 R2 L2
44. 24.18 U' R2 F2 R2 U2 R2 U' B2 R2 B2 U' R' F' R L2 F' R' L2 B' U' L2
45. 23.68 F2 D2 B2 L2 U' B2 D B2 L2 U R2 B' R' D2 F' R' B' R D' U' L U
46. 30.34 D2 R2 D2 F2 L2 F2 U B2 D R2 D R' B2 F2 U F' U2 F' D2 R L2
47. 26.06 B2 L2 D F2 D' R2 D' F2 U L2 F2 L U F' R2 L2 D2 U2 F' L' F2
48. 28.50 B2 U' R2 D U' F2 L2 D F2 U F R' F U2 L2 U2 L' B' L2
49. 28.37 L2 B2 D2 B2 D F2 U R2 F2 D2 R' U2 R' B D2 U2 R' D F2 L D
50. 26.01 D U L2 B2 U R2 B2 R2 B2 U R2 F U B' F' U2 R2 L U R' L U'


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## Kattenvriendin (Apr 14, 2013)

Wow nice times there! :tu Color neutral on ALL colors, right? So not excluding white if it happens to be a good one?


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## pipkiksass (Apr 14, 2013)

Congrats, some nice times. My average is similar to yours, but my standard deviation is lower. This means most of my solves are 24-28s, I have VERY few that get down below 23, maybe 5 in an Ao50. I've had 4 lucky sub-20s and one non-lucky... but then maybe I have fewer sup-30's?

Do you find your times vary more or less when you're doing colour-neutral sessions, or are they roughly the same? I've considered going CN, but I don't think I can look far enough into the solve to make a difference - just because the cross might be easier on red/orange/x, doesn't mean I'll be any quicker finding my first pair. I'm not sure if a second saved on the cross will help when it comes to what I will lose in F2L recognition... After a while being CN, do you find F2L any more difficult on, for example, orange cross than on white?


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## MarcelP (Apr 14, 2013)

Kattenvriendin said:


> Wow nice times there! :tu Color neutral on ALL colors, right? So not excluding white if it happens to be a good one?


All colors including white.


pipkiksass said:


> Congrats, some nice times. My average is similar to yours, but my standard deviation is lower. This means most of my solves are 24-28s, I have VERY few that get down below 23, maybe 5 in an Ao50. I've had 4 lucky sub-20s and one non-lucky... but then maybe I have fewer sup-30's?
> 
> Do you find your times vary more or less when you're doing colour-neutral sessions, or are they roughly the same? I've considered going CN, but I don't think I can look far enough into the solve to make a difference - just because the cross might be easier on red/orange/x, doesn't mean I'll be any quicker finding my first pair. I'm not sure if a second saved on the cross will help when it comes to what I will lose in F2L recognition... After a while being CN, do you find F2L any more difficult on, for example, orange cross than on white?



I think if I would pick a different color as a single cross color i would do great on green or orange. But I am faster on white. But at the recent competition I did white only and also the training before the competition I switched to white only training. The problem that occurred was that I lost my mojo. All look ahead was gone. Since I do not need look ahead to get sub 30 with white cross. Just real fast turning. The problem on the competition was nerves and no look ahead. Right after the competition I switched back to CN training. Meaning no white what so ever. And on timed session I use all colors including white. That way I train look ahead much better. Todays 'bad' times where not really because of doing CN solves. But just distractions by my 3 year old boy.. I have to answer questions 'Can I have a cooky  ' 

I think if you want to switch to CN to get faster times, just do not do it. Staying with a single color probably will get you faster times. I do CN because I think it is way more fun, I want to use the easy crosses, and learn better look ahead because of CN training.


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## sneaklyfox (Apr 14, 2013)

MarcelP said:


> I think if I would pick a different color as a single cross color i would do great on green or orange. But I am faster on white. But at the recent competition I did white only and also the training before the competition I switched to white only training. The problem that occurred was that I lost my mojo. All look ahead was gone. Since I do not need look ahead to get sub 30 with white cross. Just real fast turning. The problem on the competition was nerves and no look ahead. Right after the competition I switched back to CN training. Meaning no white what so ever. And on timed session I use all colors including white. That way I train look ahead much better. Todays 'bad' times where not really because of doing CN solves. But just distractions by my 3 year old boy.. I have to answer questions 'Can I have a cooky  '
> 
> I think if you want to switch to CN to get faster times, just do not do it. Staying with a single color probably will get you faster times. I do CN because I think it is way more fun, I want to use the easy crosses, and learn better look ahead because of CN training.



Distractions from your son sound like how it is here. I get those types of questions too. 

I tried CN for a month but decided it wasn't worth the trouble. But I am always doing dual colour crosses now white/yellow. It doesn't confuse me. I think I still preferred to do white for awhile for visual reasons but I think that was because the yellow stickers that come with the cubes have such a dull shade that it was harder to spot. I still chose whichever was the best cross though but I wasn't very happy solving yellow. Since I got some new stickers recently and put on fluorescent yellow, it's equally good as white.


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## pipkiksass (Apr 14, 2013)

MarcelP said:


> I think if you want to switch to CN to get faster times, just do not do it. Staying with a single color probably will get you faster times. I do CN because I think it is way more fun, I want to use the easy crosses, and learn better look ahead because of CN training.



I'm not personally interested in being colour neutral (at least not right now), I already have far too many things to work on, but it's something I've dabbled with and find interesting too. There are a million and one things for me to practice if I want to speed up, I'm more curious really about your experience with colour neutrality: not so much directly about speed, but whether CN sessions have greater variance than white cross sessions, and if it's possible to ever be truly neutral. Just something I've wondered about - as the Ao50 was all cross colours, would you say the really fast solves (the sub-20's) were on a mixture of cross colours? What about the slower solves? Same question - would be interesting to know if, for example, the sup-30s were all red cross, or something like that, or if the sub-20's were all white/yellow, or a complete mixture. Disregarding cookie-related interruptions, obviously! 

On the distraction front I'm lucky, in a sense - my daughter is only 8 months, and too young to distract me! Having said that, I don't cube while she's up, but she goes to bed pretty early. She does have a tendency to try and eat my cubes if I leave them lying around though!


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## Lchu613 (Apr 14, 2013)

I find that original plastic zhanchis taste better than the new ones... I think the plastic is different!

loljk


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## pipkiksass (Apr 15, 2013)

You obviously have the same _taste _in cubes as my daughter! She likes my white zhanchi with full-brights, not so keen on black guhong 2 with half-brights, and the store-bought Rubik's standard cube... well she isn't keen on that at all, not one bit! 

In other news, she's done a 2-gen solve. I turned let's say U then let her turn it back, then the same with R... then I did U, R and she did R', U'. 

Kids are great!!!


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## sneaklyfox (Apr 15, 2013)

pipkiksass said:


> I'm not personally interested in being colour neutral (at least not right now), I already have far too many things to work on, but it's something I've dabbled with and find interesting too. There are a million and one things for me to practice if I want to speed up, I'm more curious really about your experience with colour neutrality: not so much directly about speed, but whether CN sessions have greater variance than white cross sessions, and if it's possible to ever be truly neutral. Just something I've wondered about - as the Ao50 was all cross colours, would you say the really fast solves (the sub-20's) were on a mixture of cross colours? What about the slower solves? Same question - would be interesting to know if, for example, the sup-30s were all red cross, or something like that, or if the sub-20's were all white/yellow, or a complete mixture. Disregarding cookie-related interruptions, obviously!
> 
> On the distraction front I'm lucky, in a sense - my daughter is only 8 months, and too young to distract me! Having said that, I don't cube while she's up, but she goes to bed pretty early. She does have a tendency to try and eat my cubes if I leave them lying around though!





pipkiksass said:


> You obviously have the same _taste _in cubes as my daughter! She likes my white zhanchi with full-brights, not so keen on black guhong 2 with half-brights, and the store-bought Rubik's standard cube... well she isn't keen on that at all, not one bit!
> 
> In other news, she's done a 2-gen solve. I turned let's say U then let her turn it back, then the same with R... then I did U, R and she did R', U'.
> 
> Kids are great!!!



That's really good for an 8-month old. I have a picture of my son tasting my white lunhui, but I couldn't find it to show you. I think he was something like 8 months at the time.


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## MarcelP (Apr 15, 2013)

Well, Sami, here two years old was averaging allready 40 seconds here.. These pics clearly prove that. LOL


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## MarcelP (Apr 15, 2013)

pipkiksass said:


> I'm more curious really about your experience with colour neutrality: not so much directly about speed, but whether CN sessions have greater variance than white cross sessions, and if it's possible to ever be truly neutral. Just something I've wondered about - as the Ao50 was all cross colours, would you say the really fast solves (the sub-20's) were on a mixture of cross colours? What about the slower solves? Same question - would be interesting to know if, for example, the sup-30s were all red cross, or something like that, or if the sub-20's were all white/yellow, or a complete mixture.



Well, from the sub 20's there was only one other than white (18.95 R2 D F2 R2 L2 D' U2 B2 R2 L2 D R B L2 F D2 L2 U' R L2 B2 orange cross). But my fastest solves are 90% of the time a white or yellow cross. But I notice that low twenties are more and more occurring on other colors. Most sup 30 are CN solves. It's easy to make a mistake when not fully concentrating doing a CN solve. Single cross does not have this problem (well, not for me anyway). That being said, I had a rough set back a few weeks ago and I had many sup30 white crosses then.

I think being true CN is an option. But it takes more than a few months. Maybe years.. And even then some colors might still be dominant.

I think doing CN solves even if you are pure white solver will help your times. Just like solving with bad lightening helps your look ahead. In daylight it's much easier to do solves when you have trained in the bad lights. Same with training CN helps your white solves. How ever, if you train NO white crosses for a while, you will loose speed on white crosses as well.


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## MarcelP (Apr 17, 2013)

Okay, I had to share this....

My entry for the weekly competition week 16:

*3X3X3 Fewest moves* : 33 // Woaaah!


Spoiler



Scramble B2 F2 D' R2 U2 B2 L2 D2 B2 U F2 R' B' D L' D2 L F' D' U'

Solution F' D U L D2 F R2 F' R' D R D R D2 R' D R R D R'D R D2 R' F D2 F'D' F D' F' D B'

F' D U L // Pseudo block 2 X 2 X 2
B' // Pre move for Pseudo fix
D2 F R2 F' // 2 x 2 x 3 
R' D R // Set up 3rd pair
D R D2 R' D R // 3 and 4th pair
R D R' D R D2 R' // Sune 
F D2 F' D' F D' F' D // Anti sune


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## Username (Apr 17, 2013)

MarcelP said:


> Okay, I had to share this....
> 
> My entry for the weekly competition week 16:
> 
> ...



Nice! But there's an R R in the middle which could be shortened into R2, and make your solution one move shorter


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## MarcelP (Apr 17, 2013)

OMG, that is the best new of today.. LOL.. Can you see what a noob I am on FMC. Makes the 32 move solve even more special. Thanks!


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## Kattenvriendin (Apr 17, 2013)

Very well done Marcel!!


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## MarcelP (Apr 18, 2013)

Also something I just had to share 

Primairy color Zhanchi

[video=youtube_share;kPaaM6E7wOk]http://youtu.be/kPaaM6E7wOk[/video]


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## Kattenvriendin (Apr 18, 2013)

*laughs* I KNEW it. Have fun with the cube alright!


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## MarcelP (Apr 19, 2013)

KongShou said:


> u need to turn faster if you want to improve. ur turning it way too slow. at ur times u dont need looks ahead yet so turn faster. FASTER!!!



Well, I think you have a point there.. I have been doing fast turning all week and I am doing great. At first I could only turn fast at white crosses. Well, what do you know? It seems I can turn fast (and still look ahead) on color neutral solve too.. I had a 24.00 in Ao5 Weekly competition. And 25.79 Ao12 in race to sub 20. Here are the first 6 solves (my photo camera shuts down after filming just a few minutes.. LOL)



Spoiler



Rubik's cube
19-apr-2013 15:23:26 - 15:33:18

Mean: 25.88
Average: 25.79
Best time: 22.85
Median: 25.67
Worst time: 29.78
Standard deviation: 1.97

Best average of 5: 24.51
7-11 - 24.98 23.26 (22.85) 25.29 (25.35)

Best average of 12: 25.79
1-12 - 23.87 26.66 25.98 27.12 26.92 (29.78) 24.98 23.26 (22.85) 25.29 25.35 28.46

1. 23.87 B2 D2 L2 B2 D U2 B' R U' R' F' D B' U2 L' B' U'
2. 26.66 F U2 F R2 F' L2 B D2 U R2 U2 R U L' R U B R B2
3. 25.98 F L2 F D2 B' R2 B' D B D R2 U B2 U2 R F U' L
4. 27.12 D' L2 D L2 F2 D2 L2 D' U2 B2 F' D2 L' U' F2 L' D U B'
5. 26.92 B2 L2 U L2 R2 D L2 R2 D' B R' D' R' F D2 L D U' R D
6. 29.78 L' D2 R U2 F2 L' D2 L' U2 R' U L' R2 B' F2 U' R2 F U2 F'
7. 24.98 F' D R2 D' L D' R' U' F' L D' R2 B L2 B' D2 L2 D2 B2 D2
8. 23.26 U' D' B R L U' L' F2 L F U F U2 F L2 D2 F B2 D2
9. 22.85 L2 U2 F2 U B2 R2 U L B2 U' B L' D' L' U' R D2 F' R2
10. 25.29 L2 U R2 D' U' R2 L2 U2 R2 U' R B U B2 L D2 R2 F' U' L'
11. 25.35 B2 L2 D U2 B2 D2 B2 U' R2 B2 L2 F' U' L2 U' L' B R2 B2 R' D U'
12. 28.46 F2 D F2 L2 U' R2 L2 D' F2 U2 F2 L B' D' R D F2 L B' F' L2 U'


[video=youtube_share;IOhNt1W5dVU]http://youtu.be/IOhNt1W5dVU[/video]


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## Schmidt (Apr 19, 2013)

MarcelP said:


> (my photo camera shuts down after filming just a few minutes.. LOL)



Another reason to become faster


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## Gordon (Apr 19, 2013)

Danm... I need a new camera which shuts down faster, or I will never be faster.


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## MarcelP (Apr 19, 2013)

LOL, I might invest in a real digtal vide-camera someday..

Btw, there was a time when I could not film an Ao3 with the time being expired.. So I am improving allright..


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## ThomasJE (Apr 19, 2013)

Couldn't you just use Movie Maker or something like that to stitch multiple videos together? Maybe stop and start recording every 4-5 solves to avoid running out during a solve?


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## MarcelP (Apr 19, 2013)

ThomasJE said:


> Couldn't you just use Movie Maker or something like that to stitch multiple videos together? Maybe stop and start recording every 4-5 solves to avoid running out during a solve?




Hey Thomas! Long time no see in here 

Yeah, but I don't want people to think I am 
staging good solves or anything


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## Kattenvriendin (Apr 19, 2013)

Avidemux does just what you need (joining vids), and it's free 


(file - append - file - save - save video, and give it a name +.avi, done)


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## ThomasJE (Apr 20, 2013)

MarcelP said:


> Hey Thomas! Long time no see in here
> 
> Yeah, but I don't want people to think I am
> staging good solves or anything



Any respectable forum member will not think that of you. We all trust you  And anyway; Prisma keeps on showing the previous time until you start solving again.

And yeah; I've been lurking the forums more than anything recently.



Kattenvriendin said:


> Avidemux does just what you need (joining vids), and it's free
> 
> 
> (file - append - file - save - save video, and give it a name +.avi, done)



Movie Maker is a lot more user friendly though; so that would be my first choice. I only use Avidemux for reconstructing solves (easier to go frame by frame).


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## Kattenvriendin (Apr 20, 2013)

Moviemaker might be nice but it won't run on my system.


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## Lchu613 (Apr 20, 2013)

What system do you use? Linux?
The primary color is (I think) undyed plastic, could be higher quality stuff


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## Kattenvriendin (Apr 20, 2013)

*nod* Mepis linux.

Primary is very smooth, it could very well be undyed indeed, mine is also fast as zoof. It is faster than my main which is VERY broken in!


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## Lchu613 (Apr 20, 2013)

I sometimes use Fedora LXDE

Currently my Zhanchi is about as fast as a snail and feels terrible. It was already slow, then I put some Maru in to try to get it faster. It's all gummy now...


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## Kattenvriendin (Apr 20, 2013)

Ahhh how much Maru did you put in?


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## Lchu613 (Apr 20, 2013)

2 drops
Large drops, don't know if that's too much....


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## MarcelP (Apr 20, 2013)

Lchu613 said:


> I sometimes use Fedora LXDE
> 
> Currently my Zhanchi is about as fast as a snail and feels terrible. It was already slow, then I put some Maru in to try to get it faster. It's all gummy now...



Take it all apart, even screws. Wash with soap. Dry in sun. Put back togerher with only little bit CRC silicone. Or Maru. You should have a fast cube again.


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## MarcelP (Apr 20, 2013)

Kattenvriendin said:


> *nod* Mepis linux.
> 
> Primary is very smooth, it could very well be undyed indeed, mine is also fast as zoof. It is faster than my main which is VERY broken in!


I think the Primary will replace my black Panshi as my main.


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## Kattenvriendin (Apr 20, 2013)

Lchu613 said:


> 2 drops
> Large drops, don't know if that's too much....



Yep, that is likely too much. Clean it out, careful with that sun it can warp pieces. Start by cleaning all the cubies with a tissue and then put it back together. It should be much better then already as you took the excess out.


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## Lchu613 (Apr 20, 2013)

All right, I'll try it

Update: it's a little better, not as gummy. But it feels kind of dry now...


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## Username (Apr 21, 2013)

Do you recommend the primary color zhanchi? I don't really like white cubes (i know it isn't white, it's primary color), but if it's really really good i might give it a try.


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## MarcelP (Apr 21, 2013)

Username said:


> Do you recommend the primary color zhanchi? I don't really like white cubes (i know it isn't white, it's primary color), but if it's really really good i might give it a try.



I really like white cubes so the step to a Primairy was without problems. It's definatly my fastest and smoothest cube. I think I will order one extra


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## Kattenvriendin (Apr 21, 2013)

It IS really really good. Mine is amazing, and I am sure Marcel's is similar  I was wondering about ordering one more as well.. but the price held me back. I have plenty of 3x3 cubes lol

How's the Yau faring today Marcel?


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## MarcelP (Apr 21, 2013)

Kattenvriendin said:


> How's the Yau faring today Marcel?



Awesome.. Making quick progress.. Averaging 4 minutes allready..


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## Kattenvriendin (Apr 21, 2013)

WOOHOO!!

I am still slower than my PBs, hopefully that will improve.

But WHAT a difference in edge pairing.. what a relief compared to the frantic searching!

Have you found a solution of the "oh my edge is not in the top layer" situation?


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## MarcelP (Apr 21, 2013)

Yeah, then I go back to my old method from then on and still have good solve..


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## Kattenvriendin (Apr 21, 2013)

Ah *giggle* At some point sometimes I have to do that as well.. I hope someone comes with a nice clear tut on how to address that issue


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## Gordon (Apr 21, 2013)

*Hi, Marcel from Holland here*

What exactly is the 'one edge is not in the top layer' problem?

I have also one of the natural colored zhan chis. 
Maybe I must try it once again.


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## Kattenvriendin (Apr 21, 2013)

When you are doing the edge pairing, those sets of three you are making. Sometimes the cubie you need is not in the top layer but in one of the middle ones. How does one get that out without ruining other things (pairs and set up pairs) already made.

I pair up the pairs and then take the one out that I need. But I don't think that works all the time, because sometimes I do this and I am left with like 4 edges that need pairing still or the entire thing gets ruined so I have to start over on the sets of 3, or one set of 3.

Irritating.


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## jayefbe (Apr 21, 2013)

*Hi, Marcel from Holland here*

How are you guys doing your edge pairing? I use a modified 3-222-3 format. Which for Yau is basically 3-2-2 or 3-2-3 most of the time. I solve three pairs by slicing, and then setting up the three pairs and solving them when I restore the centers. 

After this, all the unpaired edges are in the top layer. I solve the remaining edges two at a time, for one set of unpaired edges, I'll set up and solve one edge with a u. Then I replace that newly paired dedge with the edge that pairs up with the edge that's leftover from the original pair and solve with a u'. 
The only issue that ever occurs is during the first three pairing stage. Occasionally, two sets of unpaired edges will have the same cubies. In which case, the slice set up and solve with the restoring slice won't work. I generally just pair two at a time when I notice that. 

Yau really is so nice for this edge pairing. It took me a few days for my times to catch up to my reduction times, but once they did my times began to drop quite quickly.


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## MarcelP (Apr 22, 2013)

jayefbe said:


> Occasionally, two sets of unpaired edges will have the same cubies. In which case, the slice set up and solve with the restoring slice won't work. I generally just pair two at a time when I notice that.



That's the 'one edge is not in the top layer' problem Kattenvriendin is talking about. When I get to that I just go to my old routine of paring them up one pair at a time and placing them in U or B face.

My times are still far from my old times, but I expect them to catch up soon.


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## Gordon (Apr 22, 2013)

In this video the guy explains these cases (Tip 4). That's how I solve the 'one edge is not in the top layer' problem.





Hope it helps you too...


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## MarcelP (Apr 22, 2013)

Cool, I will watch it after work today. Thanks.


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## Kattenvriendin (Apr 22, 2013)

Another thanks here.. I will watch it after I get back from the dentist.. yay *hrmph*


back! (all good.. whew)

Oh I see I already do that, so.. no more new tricks on that particular part


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## MarcelP (Apr 22, 2013)

Awesome tips!! Just slice the edgepiece out, move to upper layer..


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## Kattenvriendin (Apr 23, 2013)

COUGH

LOL


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## MarcelP (Apr 26, 2013)

Ok, I did an Ao5 on all colors today.

YELLOW 26.51 (30.67) 26.58 (24.15) 25.75 = *26.28*
BLUE (23.12) 23.59 26.51 24.82 (28.50) = *24.97*
RED 24.70 25.52 (28.83) (22.01) 25.81 = *25.34*
GREEN 26.80 25.67 (27.62) (23.49) 25.51 = *25.99*
ORANGE 26.97 (28.69) (26.15) 27.05 26.53 = *26.85*
WHITE (29.36) 24.83 (23.78) 25.24 24.35 = *24.81*

I did not have the time to do a big timed average, but I am glad I did this. All solves went really smooth.



Spoiler



<---- YELLOW CROSS------>


Mean: 26.73
Average: 26.28
Best time: 24.15
Median: 26.51
Worst time: 30.67
Standard deviation: 2.15

Best average of 5: 26.28
1-5 - 26.51 (30.67) 26.58 (24.15) 25.75

1. 26.51 L2 F2 U' L2 D' L2 D B2 U2 B2 U R' D L U2 F R2 B U2 F2 D2
2. 30.67 U2 F2 L2 D L2 B2 U L2 D F2 D' B R' D R F R' U' R2 B2 L'
3. 26.58 R2 B2 R2 F2 U L2 D F2 D R2 D' B L U2 L2 U B2 L2 D' B2 U2
4. 24.15 D' B2 U B2 R2 L2 D' F2 D' F2 D2 R' F L2 F U' R' D R U' L' U2
5. 25.75 D F2 D' L2 D2 L2 F2 U' B2 U2 R' D F2 D' L D2 F R' D' L U'


<---- BLUE CROSS------>


Mean: 25.31
Average: 24.97
Best time: 23.12
Median: 24.82
Worst time: 28.50
Standard deviation: 1.98

Best average of 5: 24.97
1-5 - (23.12) 23.59 26.51 24.82 (28.50)

1. 23.12 L2 D2 R2 U' R2 U' B2 D L2 B2 D R' D' F' D' U' R F R2 B2 L' U'
2. 23.59 D L2 D' B2 R2 U' F2 D2 R2 U' B2 R U' F' U L D R' L' D U'
3. 26.51 U' R2 F2 R2 D F2 R2 D B2 F2 D' L B F2 L' D2 U L' B U2 R2
4. 24.82 R2 U R2 U' L2 D' B2 D' F2 L2 U' R B L D2 U' R2 U2 B' R' F' U'
5. 28.50 L2 U R2 D B2 D2 B2 U R2 B2 U2 B' U F R B' F2 L D F L2

<---- RED CROSS------>

Mean: 25.37
Average: 25.34
Best time: 22.01
Median: 25.52
Worst time: 28.83
Standard deviation: 2.19

Best average of 5: 25.34
1-5 - 24.70 25.52 (28.83) (22.01) 25.81

1. 24.70 R2 U R2 L2 D B2 F2 U2 F2 U' L' D' L D2 L D2 U' F L' U
2. 25.52 D B2 U2 B2 D2 L2 U R2 L2 F2 U2 R F' D' B2 U' F R' L' F' L2
3. 28.83 U L2 D2 B2 D' L2 F2 L2 U2 B2 D' F' D2 U R L' U' L B2 R' B
4. 22.01 B2 U' B2 R2 D B2 L2 U F2 D2 B2 R' D' F' U2 L' D' R F' L2 D' U'
5. 25.81 U2 R2 B2 R2 D B2 D' L2 D' R2 F2 R' D' R' B' U2 B L' U' B D'


<---- GREEN CROSS------>


Mean: 25.82
Average: 25.99
Best time: 23.49
Median: 25.67
Worst time: 27.62
Standard deviation: 1.40

Best average of 5: 25.99
1-5 - 26.80 25.67 (27.62) (23.49) 25.51

1. 26.80 F2 D B2 L2 D' F2 D2 L2 U2 F2 R' L B' U2 R F' L2 B2 D F2 D'
2. 25.67 U R2 L2 U B2 L2 U F2 D' R2 U B' L' U' F' R' U2 B' U F2 D U2
3. 27.62 L2 B2 U' L2 D B2 D2 L2 F2 R2 B2 R B2 U' F' R L' D' B' R2 F2
4. 23.49 R2 U2 R2 L2 D F2 L2 D' L2 F2 L B' D' R2 L B2 L' F2 U
5. 25.51 R2 D' R2 L2 F2 L2 D' F2 R2 D' R2 B D' B2 D F2 L D' F' L2 F2

<---- ORANGE CROSS------>


Mean: 27.08
Average: 26.85
Best time: 26.15
Median: 26.97
Worst time: 28.69
Standard deviation: 0.87

Best average of 5: 26.85
1-5 - 26.97 (28.69) (26.15) 27.05 26.53

1. 26.97 B2 R2 B2 U2 L2 D B2 U F2 D U' R' F' L2 U' F2 U L F' L2 U'
2. 28.69 L2 F2 R2 U' L2 U B2 U' B2 R2 U2 R F D' F' L' F2 D U2 B' D' U'
3. 26.15 B2 U' F2 R2 D2 B2 F2 D B2 D L2 F' R' L' D F' R' U B2 F U2
4. 27.05 U R2 U F2 U R2 L2 D' B2 F2 L B2 F U2 B2 U' B U B' L2
5. 26.53 F2 U2 F2 U' R2 D B2 U' F2 D R2 B F L B2 R B2 F L' D2 U'

<---- WHITE CROSS------>


Mean: 25.51
Average: 24.81
Best time: 23.78
Median: 24.83
Worst time: 29.36
Standard deviation: 1.98

Best average of 5: 24.81
1-5 - (29.36) 24.83 (23.78) 25.24 24.35

1. 29.36 D' R2 U R2 B2 L2 U2 R2 U2 B2 D' B' R' L' F' L2 F' L2 F' U F U'
2. 24.83 U' F2 L2 D' B2 L2 D' R2 U L2 D2 B' D2 R' D U L2 D2 B D2 R'
3. 23.78 F2 U2 L2 F2 D2 L2 D L2 D R2 D B' D' F2 R L2 F' D' R' L' B2 U'
4. 25.24 L2 B2 U' L2 B2 U L2 F2 U2 L2 D2 L F' U B R' B' L B' U2 B L2
5. 24.35 D' L2 D2 L2 U L2 U2 F2 U2 F2 L D2 B U B D R F2 R

<---- ------>


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## mark49152 (Apr 26, 2013)

Still definitely CN then! Do the colours always come out with the same time order?


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## Kattenvriendin (Apr 26, 2013)

Being color neutral would definitely help on the 4x4. Very often nice centers already done on the other colors than white and yellow!


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## MarcelP (Apr 26, 2013)

mark49152 said:


> Still definitely CN then! Do the colours always come out with the same time order?


What do you mean Mark? I picked them ramdomly.I started with white.


Kattenvriendin said:


> Being color neutral would definitely help on the 4x4. Very often nice centers already done on the other colors than white and yellow!


Yeah, on normal reduction I do color neutal. But Yao is too intensive allready as it is right now. So I do white on left en yellow on righ (ALWAYS).


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## sneaklyfox (Apr 26, 2013)

I think mark49152 meant whether you're always fastest on white, second fastest on blue, then red, green, yellow, orange... like you were for the above average of 5. Or does the order change all the time? Or say, if you have a preference for white then usually white is fastest or second fastest and maybe orange is more often slower or slowest...


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## MarcelP (Apr 26, 2013)

Ah, I think white is still my dominant color, meaning I can spot them sooner. However, I developped a look ahead on the other colors which somehow is not developing on white. On white I just turn insanly fast (well for me anyway LOL). On the other colors I keep looking ahead. I think in short time I will be slower on white as on other colors.


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## mark49152 (Apr 26, 2013)

Yes that's what I meant - whether some colours always work better for you. I always assumed that white cross, yellow OLL is the "usual" choice because white's the easiest to spot, followed by yellow. On the few CN solves I've tried, with regular Dayan stickers, the hardest thing for me was that the white and yellow stickers were screaming out at me, distracting me from finding the cross, OLL and F2L pairs. I wonder if CN would be easier with black instead of white, or full bright stickers, etc., to make the colours more "equal"...


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## MarcelP (Apr 26, 2013)

I think some colors work better. Green and orange. But I should do Ao100's to prove that  So much to do, so little time LOL..

Well, my Yao times are picking up:

Mean: 3:13.36
Average: 3:08.78
Best time: 2:56.89
Median: 3:07.07
Worst time: 3:43.58
Standard deviation: 16.07

Best average of 5: 3:08.78
1-5 - (2:56.89) (3:43.58) 3:05.16 3:14.12 3:07.07


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## Kattenvriendin (Apr 26, 2013)

SIGGIE CHANGE!! Hehe good going! I just loooove Yau!


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## Lchu613 (May 1, 2013)

I think I may do my first timed 4x4 solve sometime in the near future.
I'm kind of excited.


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## MarcelP (May 1, 2013)

Be sure that you start off with Yao. I was difficult for me to swicth from reduction to Yao


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## Kattenvriendin (May 1, 2013)

Hey Marcel, we got moved lol

DO learn edge pairing and center matching first, without that you'e nowhere with Yau. But after that it is real easy to get the hang of it


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## MarcelP (May 1, 2013)

Kattenvriendin said:


> Hey Marcel, we got moved lol
> 
> DO learn edge pairing and center matching first, without that you'e nowhere with Yau. But after that it is real easy to get the hang of it



Yeah, off-topic discussion. LOL We do not talk about cubes after all..

The thing I mess up with Yao is that after building white and yellow center and having two white edge pairs (for example) is that when pairing up the third white edge pair I break one of the allready build up pairs. And when I did not do that, (when it went ok) I seem to mess up one of the three pairs often while building the last 4 centers... I just can not get used to the restriction that you have with your left hand. But, it is getting better. I had a 3.15 Ao5 yesterday


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## mark49152 (May 1, 2013)

I just can't get the hang of it. The centres and edges just seem more awkward than with reduction and all it seems to give as benefit is a half-built cross. 

What's the advantage? Is there more to it than getting the cross half done? How much practice does it take to gain more from the cross than you lose from the harder centres? 

4x4 is great though - I'm hooked now and have a new SS on my desk waiting to be modded


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## MarcelP (May 1, 2013)

In Yao the biggest advantage is that after doing centers all the unpaired edges are easy to spot. And with the 32223 or whatever that method is called, is pairing so much faster. In normal reduction I find my self staring at the cube rotating 360 degrees in all diretions to find what I am looking for..


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## Schmidt (May 1, 2013)

MarcelP said:


> The thing I mess up with Yao is....


....how to write Yau.


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## MarcelP (May 1, 2013)

LOL... Ok Yau. I will try to keep that in mind from now on.


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## mark49152 (May 1, 2013)

MarcelP said:


> In Yao the biggest advantage is that after doing centers all the unpaired edges are easy to spot. And with the 32223 or whatever that method is called, is pairing so much faster. In normal reduction I find my self staring at the cube rotating 360 degrees in all diretions to find what I am looking for..


Yeah that is true. With 32223 I do keep looking at top and bottom. Will try a bit harder with Yau!


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## littlewing1208 (May 1, 2013)

I never really focused on 4x4 but once I got the hang of Yau, I really like it. But doing the last 4 centers is hard to get the hang of. I basically find a center with a 2x1 already done (90+% of the time it's the case) and then in the r layer if there is a center of the same color, I bring it in to make the "L" then you do a Rrl turn to put the face with the 4th center of that color and put it in the l layer in the relative position to the 3rd center that is currently in the r layer, then spin just the Rr the amount that you did to find the face with the 4th center (either 90 or 180deg) to pair, then U/U' to get the 2x1 in the r layer and then Rr back to where it was and then the face is solved. Rinse and repeat. If there is no 2x1 for the next color your first job is to match one and the above process for matching the 3rd and 4th center will accomplish this and then get this 2x1 into the l layer and repeat. 

Note the above assumes you keep your cross face on the left with the UL dedge empty.

Cyoubx' most recent Yau edge pairing video (new of the last few weeks) really helped me (ie slice first, pair 3 dedges and then 2 at a time till complete).


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## jayefbe (May 1, 2013)

*Hi, Marcel from Holland here*

I started with reduction and got to about ~2:10 avg with a pb around 1:50. When I switched to Yau it took a few days to catch up, and my progress accelerated from there. I'm not sure if I would be faster now if I had started out with Yau. There is so much similarity between Yau and reduction, that I don't think it really matters when you switch. 

The last four centers definitely took the longest for me to get used to. I solve with the cross/buffer edge on the right face. I like this because I'm right dominant and most of my center pairing is done with my right hand. It's difficult because you have to identify how to pair the center pieces, while simultaneously remembering to move the buffer edge to the right face before you start turning. It's incredibly awkward, but over time it feels like an automatic subconscious problem. 

Pairing the cross edges can feel awkward as well. The first three cross edges have the benefit of not being restricted by centers, so unnecessary turns meant to repair centers aren't necessary. However, it's important to remember where the already made cross dedges are. I've paired up a cross dedge only to find I've broken up a previously made pair many times.


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## sneaklyfox (May 2, 2013)

One of these days I'm going to have to get into 4x4. I've done some, but not too seriously and right now I have no good 4x4 to play with. I keep reading this thread and all this talk about 4x4 is making me somewhat envious that I don't get to join in the discussion...


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## MarcelP (May 2, 2013)

jayefbe said:


> The last four centers definitely took the longest for me to get used to.



Yes, I am still getting used to that. I am doing a few slow solves per day and it is getting better.



sneaklyfox said:


> One of these days I'm going to have to get into 4x4. I've done some, but not too seriously and right now I have no good 4x4 to play with. I keep reading this thread and all this talk about 4x4 is making me somewhat envious that I don't get to join in the discussion...



LOL.. You will be super fast in a week.. just like with Pyraminx  Only problem with 4 X4 is that it takes a lot longer to do a solve, so 1000 per day or even 100 is way to much. I think I do 5 solves per day. If you get a new 4 X 4, you should get a Shenghou. They are awesome out of the box. But after a few hundred solves they are even better.


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## sneaklyfox (May 2, 2013)

MarcelP said:


> LOL.. You will be super fast in a week.. just like with Pyraminx  Only problem with 4 X4 is that it takes a lot longer to do a solve, so 1000 per day or even 100 is way to much. I think I do 5 solves per day. If you get a new 2 X 2, you should get a Shenghou. They are awesome out of the box. But after a few hundred solves they are even better.



Well pyraminx was easy because it doesn't take long for a solve unlike 4x4. 1000 per day?? Who has time for 1000 4x4 solves a day? I don't even do 1000 3x3 solves a day. I don't even think I would have the time to do 1000 pyraminx solves a day lol. Well, whenever I do get into 4x4, I will probably get whatever is best on the market at the time. Right now, it's SS. I don't think I would have the time to mod it though. Anyway, I'm sure it will take much longer than a week to get super fast at it, but thanks for your confidence.


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## MarcelP (May 2, 2013)

sneaklyfox said:


> Anyway, I'm sure it will take much longer than a week to get super fast at it, but thanks for your confidence.



Well, I remember you getting sub 30 with 3 X 3 on 4 X 4 allready so you allready can turn fast. That helps a lot. I think my 3 X 3 on 4 X 4 are around 40 - 50 seconds..


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## Lchu613 (May 2, 2013)

I haven't done a timed solve with the 4x4 yet, I should get around to that...


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## Kattenvriendin (May 3, 2013)

Hey Marcel.. time to post something here.. we need to stay active on our unwanted threads now  LOL


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## Lchu613 (May 4, 2013)

Yes, very.
My parents think that cubing takes away from my school time and homework time and things like that
What they don't realize is that the opposite is true


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## sneaklyfox (May 4, 2013)

Lchu613 said:


> Yes, very.
> My parents think that cubing takes away from my school time and homework time and things like that
> What they don't realize is that the opposite is true



lol


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## cxinlee (May 4, 2013)

Lchu613 said:


> Yes, very.
> My parents think that cubing takes away from my school time and homework time and things like that
> What they don't realize is that the opposite is true



Yeah that's exactly what I think. But you realize that your parents are your authority and you can't do anything about it. So I decided to sacrifice my other free time for cubing lol.


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## MarcelP (May 5, 2013)

Kattenvriendin said:


> Hey Marcel.. time to post something here..



Yeah, I have something to share. I looked into commutators today:

*3X3X3 Fewest moves* : 32


Scramble L2 D L2 D' F2 L2 U' B2 F2 D2 U' B R F' U B' F' L' U2 F D2

F R' U R U' L2 U2 R' * D // 2 x 2 x 3 Pseudo block
D' // Pre move to fix pseudo
L F' // 3RD F2L
U L2 U2 F U F' // COMPLETE F2L
D L2 D' L' D L' *D'* //All but three corners (last move cancelled by pre move  )
F2 R B2 R' F2 R B2 R' // * Commutator insert

Solution: F R' U R U' L2 U2 R' F2 R B2 R' F2 R B2 R' D L F' U L2 U2 F U F' D L2 D' L' D L' D'


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## sneaklyfox (May 5, 2013)

MarcelP said:


> Yeah, I have something to share. I looked into commutators today:
> 
> *3X3X3 Fewest moves* : 32
> 
> ...



Wow, that's pretty cool. Just that the last move of your solution is supposed to be D2. But very cool... I haven't done any FMC stuff at all. It looks fun though. Seems like you're doing well in that.


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## mark49152 (May 5, 2013)

Yeah looks fun - I wish I had more time to try these things too! Would also like to try BLD.


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## Cubenovice (May 5, 2013)

MarcelP said:


> *3X3X3 Fewest moves* : 32
> 
> 
> Scramble L2 D L2 D' F2 L2 U' B2 F2 D2 U' B R F' U B' F' L' U2 F D2
> ...



Nice 
Too bad about the skeleton not having any good insertions...
I found 5 possible locations for insertions but none of them cancelled any moves.
Insertion Finder confirms that there indeed are no cancelling insertions.

So all in all you could just have added a commutator at the end of the solve for the same result 
L2 B R B' L2 B R' B' or U' R2 U L2 U' R2 U L2
But at this stage in your FMC career the insertion attempt mus thave been some great practice!
How many possible locations forn an insertion did you find?



sneaklyfox said:


> Wow, that's pretty cool. *Just that the last move of your solution is supposed to be D2*. But very cool... I haven't done any FMC stuff at all. It looks fun though. Seems like you're doing well in that.


In Marcel's 2nd line he mentiones the premove D'.
This equates to the final move D' becoming D2 when not performing the premove.
So marcels notation is correct 

Just remember that in submitting a solution in an official FMC you must write it without any extra annotations so there it would have to end on D2 indeed.


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## MarcelP (May 6, 2013)

sneaklyfox said:


> Seems like you're doing well in that.



Yeah, it's real fun and something quite different than speedcubing.But I have one of the best FMC-ers to teach me every once in a while. I am getting better 



mark49152 said:


> Would also like to try BLD.



That's too hard for me. 



Cubenovice said:


> Nice
> But at this stage in your FMC career the insertion attempt mus thave been some great practice!
> How many possible locations forn an insertion did you find?



None, and I have found this one by accident. I understand the concept of commutators 100%, but finding them on a scrambled cube is something completely different. I need loads of practice on that.


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## Kattenvriendin (May 6, 2013)

Amazing that you can do this *giggle* I wouldn't know how to solve the cube other than what I am used to, and then just try and find the fewest moves way for F2L and continue from there. That is what I'd do in any case. Obviously I don't have a clue hahaha


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## MarcelP (May 6, 2013)

Well, FMC is very hard in the beginning. I find it very difficult. The trick is to find a very good beginning of about 6 - 8 moves that has big potential. With normal F2L that is often not the case. If you are good at block building, then FMC is a lot easier.


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## Cubenovice (May 6, 2013)

Marcel,

I suppose Guus already told you this: for insertions you use stickers to mark the pieces you need to cycle.
This way the pieces to be cycled stand out. You are also allowed to do this during WCA competitions.
I use small round stickers and I think I have seen Guus using those pre-printed stickers that come with VHS tapes .

I typically first write my solution without pre-moves (so actually adding them at the back), then check it on the cube and if it indeed leaves three corners I sticker them. So for your solution it would be the D2 ending.

Reason for taking the solution without pre-moves: solving the cube with or without premoves changes which corners need to be stickered!
If you sticker on the cube with the pre move (s) and then by accident look for insertions without applying it/them your insertions will be wrong.

So to be on the safe side I always correct the pre-moves before stickering.

Before you get too creative: 
Insertion-hunting on either normal, inverse or pre-move solutions will give you the same insertions. (It is just that your stickers will be on different cubies).

Currently at work but if you like I can indicate where there are insertions possible later today.
Then it is up to you to post the commutators


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## sneaklyfox (May 6, 2013)

Reading on what you guys are all saying, FMC sounds really fun, but I don't know if I will get into it anytime in the near future. Maybe when I'm a fair bit older and brain is working slowly and fingers aren't as fast then maybe. All the same, it's interesting to me... more than BLD. Personally, I find BLD an impressive trick to the spectator and a boring exercise of memory for myself.


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## MarcelP (May 6, 2013)

Cubenovice said:


> Currently at work but if you like I can indicate where there are insertions possible later today.
> Then it is up to you to post the commutators



Well, Guus told me at work today that we will do a commutator-training-session in near future. I had stickered my cube with the three bad corners at the end of the solve with the pre move done. I had seen a nice video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FuHHEQV2z4o) but the examples he made where completely different than the cycle that my corners had to make. So..LOL



sneaklyfox said:


> Reading on what you guys are all saying, FMC sounds really fun, but I don't know if I will get into it anytime in the near future. Maybe when I'm a fair bit older and brain is working slowly and fingers aren't as fast then maybe. All the same, it's interesting to me... more than BLD. Personally, I find BLD an impressive trick to the spectator and a boring exercise of memory for myself.



Yes, that's the same how I feel about BLD. You could always do one FMC per week (like I do) with the weekly contest! It will be fun to compete against you!


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## Cubenovice (May 6, 2013)

Cubenovice said:


> Currently at work but if you like I can indicate where there are insertions possible later today.
> Then it is up to you to post the commutators



Scramble L2 D L2 D' F2 L2 U' B2 F2 D2 U' B R F' U B' F' L' U2 F D2

solution up to 3 corners:
F R' U R U' L2 U2 R' D L F' U L2 U2 F U F' D L2 D' L' D L' D2

8 move cycles can be found at:
F . R' , U R U' L2 U2 : R' ; D L F' U L2 U2 F + U F' D L2 D' L' D L' D2 ~

Happy hunting


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## sneaklyfox (May 6, 2013)

MarcelP said:


> Yes, that's the same how I feel about BLD. You could always do one FMC per week (like I do) with the weekly contest! It will be fun to compete against you!



I have never ever done FMC before. The closest thing I've done is count the number of moves I'm using while I'm solving a cube the normal way. Probably you would beat me at FMC as I know practically nothing. Commutators... I know what they are in theory. Don't know how to use them in practice with FMC. I will look into it and maybe try my hand at it... even if just for the sake of letting you beat me.


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## Lchu613 (May 6, 2013)

FMC, hah!

(just kidding)


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## kbrune (May 7, 2013)

MarcelP said:


> Yeah, I have something to share. I looked into commutators today:
> 
> *3X3X3 Fewest moves* : 32
> 
> ...



Wow! Good on you Marcel! I'm pretty jealous of the FMC skillz you possess already.
I've been dabbling in FMC for a little while now but a lot of the necessary strategies I am having a hard time understanding. 
Mind you I haven't pushed hard at it but I've read up on commutators a bit and I'm not grasping the idea yet. 
I also don't completely understand the best approach to FMC yet. I currently use block building at the start (slowly getting used to it)
but it is to try to get F2L in the least moves possible. Then I just keep trying different solutions until I end up with an OLL and PLL with small move counts lol

Any suggestion for videos or what I should learn first to improve?


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## MarcelP (May 7, 2013)

sneaklyfox said:


> I will look into it and maybe try my hand at it... even if just for the sake of letting you beat me.



Thanks LOL, I saw your entry in the weekly competition. Nice first result. I believe my first was barely sub 60. Now after getting two 32's in a row I am getting more confident  Please also post your solution with it next week.



kbrune said:


> Wow! Good on you Marcel! I'm pretty jealous of the FMC skillz you possess already.



Thanks!, but the last two low scores where more luck than wisdom I think.



kbrune said:


> Any suggestion for videos or what I should learn first to improve?



No, but this topic is a must read topic:
You http://www.speedsolving.com/forum/showthread.php?1566-Fewest-Moves-Tips-and-Techniques


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## Lchu613 (May 7, 2013)

I know this isn't completely related, but I wonder how many moves Felik's averages per solve and what his tps is...


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## aznanimedude (May 7, 2013)

i remember in one reconstruction that Brest did, he had like...8+ TPS and did like 40-50ish movecount solves


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## ThomasJE (May 7, 2013)

aznanimedude said:


> i remember in one reconstruction that Brest did, he had like...8+ TPS and did like 40-50ish movecount solves



His former 5.66 WR was 9.18 TPS.


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## sneaklyfox (May 7, 2013)

MarcelP said:


> Thanks LOL, I saw your entry in the weekly competition. Nice first result. I believe my first was barely sub 60. Now after getting two 32's in a row I am getting more confident  Please also post your solution with it next week.



Yeah, I can post the solution next time. I wasn't sure if that was needed as I saw you were the only one who posted the solution. A few others also did FMC and they only posted the number of moves so I figured that was sufficient and based on the honour system.


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## MarcelP (May 7, 2013)

sneaklyfox said:


> Yeah, I can post the solution next time. I wasn't sure if that was needed as I saw you were the only one who posted the solution. A few others also did FMC and they only posted the number of moves so I figured that was sufficient and based on the honour system.



Yes, it is not needed. But we can learn from looking at other solutions  And I am very interested to see how you came to a solution. I wonder if your Roux skills help.


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## sneaklyfox (May 7, 2013)

MarcelP said:


> Yes, it is not needed. But we can learn from looking at other solutions  And I am very interested to see how you came to a solution. I wonder if your Roux skills help.



I didn't try for the full hour. I think I only tried for about 10-15 minutes. I attempted three methods: CFOP, then Roux, then FreeFOP (somewhat Petrus style). The Petrus was least of the three times I tried so I gave that number. I didn't think too hard. I'm sure if I tried for longer I could have found a shorter solution but probably nowhere near 32.


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## MarcelP (May 10, 2013)

I still know how to solve on white cross LOL

I wanted to film an Ao12, but after the first 3 it went all bad with even a 36 solve in there. Ao12 was still sub 29 but I will show only the first three to skip further embarrasment:

1. 20.17 U2 B2 L2 U' F2 R2 B2 U R2 L2 D2 B' D F2 U' R' D' R2 U' R' D
2. 21.77 D F2 R2 D2 F2 D R2 U' L2 D L2 B' L' F R U' F L F R L' D
3. 24.83 D2 R2 L2 B2 D' U2 B2 L2 B2 R2 D L' D2 B R2 B' F' D' L' D2 B'

[video=youtube_share;dHVmqk26rLA]http://youtu.be/dHVmqk26rLA[/video]


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## mark49152 (May 14, 2013)

Here's my PLL attack order. I practice in groups of three to focus improvement, then do all 7 triples back to back for a time attack. Each triple goes back to a solved cube, so I can easily see mid-attack if I've screwed up. However, you need the right AUFs within the triple to get back to solved, and these will depend what algs you use, so I won't list mine here. Obviously it's only the first AUF that needs a bit of trial and error, as you'll recognise the third case once you have it right. I can list my algs & AUFs as well if that would help, just let me know.

Currently my best attack is 77 sec and my PB ao12s for the triples range from 9.86 to 12.93. I try to drill the triples I'm slowest at, or look for new algs if they're clearly held back.

T-F-H
Jb-Ra-E
Ja-Rb-Z
Y-Na-Ua
Nb-V-Ub
Ga-Gc-Aa
Gd-Gb-Ab


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## sneaklyfox (May 14, 2013)

That's cool that your order of PLLs brings you back to a solved state. I always want to have an order that does that, but I actually planned my order based on the ease of transitioning from one PLL to another. I haven't done a PLL time attack in forever.


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## mark49152 (May 14, 2013)

sneaklyfox said:


> That's cool that your order of PLLs brings you back to a solved state. I always want to have an order that does that, but I actually planned my order based on the ease of transitioning from one PLL to another. I haven't done a PLL time attack in forever.


I practice the triples much more than the full attack, and usually just do attacks to warm up or to time progress. PLL is the fastest tps in a solve (for me) so I like to practice them to get my fingers moving faster.


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## MarcelP (May 15, 2013)

mark49152 said:


> Here's my PLL attack order. I practice in groups of three to focus improvement, then do all 7 triples back to back for a time attack. Each triple goes back to a solved cube, so I can easily see mid-attack if I've screwed up. However, you need the right AUFs within the triple to get back to solved, and these will depend what algs you use, so I won't list mine here. Obviously it's only the first AUF that needs a bit of trial and error, as you'll recognise the third case once you have it right. I can list my algs & AUFs as well if that would help, just let me know.
> 
> Currently my best attack is 77 sec and my PB ao12s for the triples range from 9.86 to 12.93. I try to drill the triples I'm slowest at, or look for new algs if they're clearly held back.
> 
> ...


I only know what a T-perm is. The others I know how to solve but I do not know how to do them on a solved cube. So I have to make a paper with drawings where I can reconise what to do or something. I will look into that and let you know how it turns out. Thanks for your list. I will use it for my drawings.


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## sneaklyfox (May 15, 2013)

MarcelP said:


> I only know what a T-perm is. The others I know how to solve but I do not know how to do them on a solved cube. So I have to make a paper with drawings where I can reconise what to do or something. I will look into that and let you know how it turns out. Thanks for your list. I will use it for my drawings.



Wait... how do you not know how to do them on a solved cube but you can solve them? Maybe I do not understand you correctly. Can you imagine the cube in an unsolved state and then go from there? Like, when I used to practice PLLs, I sometimes practiced them while lying in bed in the dark (because it was time to sleep but I was not ready to put my cube down yet!) I knew which alg I was practicing and how it looked and just went through the motions so I knew how they felt.


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## Gordon (May 15, 2013)

I just tried this too, but when I do a T-perm followed by a F-perm I'll have to do a Aa-perm to solve the cube.
So my first tripplett is T - F - Aa with a U2 before the T and Aa perm.


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## Kattenvriendin (May 15, 2013)

I am still following this, roughly.. I just don't have a clue what you are all talking about. I learn the perms and then forget what they are called lol


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## sneaklyfox (May 15, 2013)

Kattenvriendin said:


> I am still following this, roughly.. I just don't have a clue what you are all talking about. I learn the perms and then forget what they are called lol



Don't worry, it was awhile before I bothered to learn the names for all the PLLs. I just thought I'd like to know what other people were talking about instead of having to go through the wiki everytime someone mentioned this perm or that perm. Unfortunately, I still can't tell between A perms, U perms, R perms, G perms, J perms, N perms... if it's a, b, c, d...


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## Kattenvriendin (May 15, 2013)

I guess it'll only be interesting to me when I start doing fewest moves. Otherwise it is more: what is the best perm that works for me in that case.


Fewest moves wouldn't work for me.. with my memory lol nah it is fun to do, but I'll stick with what I know and be glad I am not forgetting WHAT I know


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## MarcelP (May 15, 2013)

sneaklyfox said:


> Wait... how do you not know how to do them on a solved cube but you can solve them? Maybe I do not understand you correctly.



I have a big problem with doing algs slow or on solved cubes. In a solve I have no problems with any pll, I can all PLLs reconize from two sides and execute immediatly. So, when I perform a T perm on a solved cube, it leaves a T perm to solve, but in stead I have to do an F-perm. My brain can NOT cope with that. LOL My brain does not take any part in doing last layer. So it is pure mussle memory (yeah I know, that comes from the brain too  ) So if I start to practice doing a drill performing a F-perm on a T-perm Last Layer, I might start doing that in true solves... I will have to try a while with one or two sets of three PLL's to see if it will work for me.



sneaklyfox said:


> while lying in bed in the dark (because it was time to sleep but I was not ready to put my cube down yet!)



LOL!!!


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## MarcelP (May 15, 2013)

Kattenvriendin said:


> Fewest moves wouldn't work for me.. with my memory lol nah it is fun to do



It will be great to know then that for doing FMC you do not have to know any algoritm. You just need to be good at block building, and inserts (commutators).


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## mark49152 (May 15, 2013)

Gordon said:


> I just tried this too, but when I do a T-perm followed by a F-perm I'll have to do a Aa-perm to solve the cube.
> So my first tripplett is T - F - Aa with a U2 before the T and Aa perm.


That's what my AUF rambling was about. You need to AUF between the first and second in order to get the correct third case. For T-F-H put the headlights on the side you'd usually put the bar, before doing F. That AUF becomes muscle memory too, with practice.

Like sneakly, I practice in the dark, or under the desk while staring at the PC. That's one of the reasons I like the cube to return to solved, otherwise I can't tell whether I screwed up. I can see Marcel's problem though. I can switch off recognition when practicing pure execution so it doesn't bother me doing a T perm on a non-T perm case (especially if I'm not looking at the cube )


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## sneaklyfox (May 15, 2013)

MarcelP said:


> I have a big problem with doing algs slow or on solved cubes. In a solve I have no problems with any pll, I can all PLLs reconize from two sides and execute immediatly. So, when I perform a T perm on a solved cube, it leaves a T perm to solve, but in stead I have to do an F-perm. My brain can NOT cope with that. LOL My brain does not take any part in doing last layer. So it is pure mussle memory (yeah I know, that comes from the brain too  ) So if I start to practice doing a drill performing a F-perm on a T-perm Last Layer, I might start doing that in true solves... I will have to try a while with one or two sets of three PLL's to see if it will work for me.



Are you able to perform an F-perm on a solved cube? If you are, you should be able to perform an F-perm when it shows T-perm because when doing PLL time attacks, I don't really look at the cube to try and recognize anything. Just keep your eyes closed the whole time and perform a T-perm followed by an F-perm. It shouldn't mess up your recognition. That's really good that you can recognize all PLLs from only two sides. There are a bunch that I still need to peek at 3 sides for (or I look when I'm doing U/U' moves to get it to the right position to start the execution)... I haven't really bothered to practice 2-sided recognition yet.


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## SpeedSolve (May 16, 2013)

Wow Marcel!!! You have improved so much! I'm so proud! 

While you, sneakly, and katten are improving, I haven't even touched a cube in nearly 5 months. This summer, I'll get back into it. 

Congrats to all of you on your new records/pbs!


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## Kattenvriendin (May 16, 2013)

Thanks!


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## MarcelP (May 16, 2013)

SpeedSolve said:


> Wow Marcel!!! You have improved so much! I'm so proud!
> 
> While you, sneakly, and katten are improving, I haven't even touched a cube in nearly 5 months. This summer, I'll get back into it.
> 
> Congrats to all of you on your new records/pbs!



Geez, thanks for the kind words. I feel like I have not improved a bit at all.  I am uploading an Ao12 that has a nice average though..


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## MarcelP (May 16, 2013)

I filmed a few Ao12's today. This is the best one.

A few +2 in there because I did not AUF correct but I don't mind 



Spoiler



Rubik's cube
16-mei-2013 16:02:53 - 16:12:26

Mean: 26.76
Average: 26.53
Best time: 20.88
Median: 26.28
Worst time: 34.93
Standard deviation: 3.77

Best average of 5: 24.50
1-5 - 26.12 24.63 (28.96) (22.25) 22.76

Best average of 12: 26.53
1-12 - 26.12 24.63 28.96 22.25 22.76 26.43 30.01 28.27 26.05 (20.88) 29.85 (34.93)

1. 26.12 R2 L2 D2 R2 L2 D' F2 U' B2 U R' B' D2 U2 F' L U B D2 R2 U'
2. *24.63* B2 D2 R2 B2 U L2 U' L2 B2 F2 U2 B' U2 R L2 B D2 L2 B U' R' D'
3. 28.96 L2 F2 D' F2 U F2 U' B2 F2 D2 B2 L' D B F2 D' R F' D R L
4. *22.25* D' R2 D F2 D U2 B2 F2 R2 F2 U' R' U F2 R' F2 R B U2 L' D B
5. *22.76* D L2 D2 F2 R2 D L2 D' B2 F2 L' D' B L D2 F' R' F' R' U'
6. 26.43 R2 U' R2 D2 R2 F2 R2 D' B2 R2 F' D2 L2 U2 L' F' U R U2 L2 D'
7. 30.01 R2 D' B2 R2 U' R2 L2 U' R2 D' L2 B D' L' U2 B2 U2 F R' B2 F' R'
8. 28.27 B2 D B2 F2 R2 D U R2 F2 U2 L' D B' L' U R B2 F L2 D' U2
9. 26.05 B2 U B2 L2 U R2 U' R2 D' L2 F' L U2 R D' B F' D' U' R'
10. *20.88* L2 U R2 D2 F2 D2 F2 U R2 U2 B R' U' L B D' F R U2 B' D U
11. 29.85 D B2 U' F2 D2 R2 F2 U' B2 F2 U' R B' U' B U2 B' L2 D F2 L
12. 34.93 U' L2 D' R2 D' B2 R2 B2 F2 D' B2 L B' U R2 D F R F' D'



I am quite happy with this. I feel a little faster than normal.

[video=youtube_share;Csf2JJDIuxA]http://youtu.be/Csf2JJDIuxA[/video]


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## Schmidt (May 16, 2013)

If you can't solve a f perm on a t perm, you should try to take the test where it says "yellow" on the screen but the letters are blue and you have to say the color of the letters instead of reading the word yellow. You might get a laugh out of it. It is a little easier( I think ) for someone who does not speak English native.


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## moralsh (May 16, 2013)

*Re: Hi, Marcel from Holland here*

To automatize your pll you can try to do them with your eyes closed, I sometimes try to 7-look my solves, plan cross, solve cross with eyes closed, plan first pair, solve it with eyes closed, and so on. It helps me a lot.


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## Lchu613 (May 17, 2013)

That seems like a cool idea, I think it would be good for F2L recognition to speed up look-ahead.
Also, you can just study the PLL cases that look alike to find differences and things to look for.
I can recognize most PLL cases from any 2 faces (not including U and D faces obviously)


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## Kattenvriendin (May 20, 2013)

AACHOOMpmboxfull lol


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## Lchu613 (May 21, 2013)

Nice bump


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## Kattenvriendin (May 21, 2013)

It's either that or wait for four days till he FINALLY realizes he is not getting anything new  lol


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## littlewing1208 (May 21, 2013)

Finally got my milky Zhanchi from zcube.cn . Unfortunately, one of the edges was poorly molded (basically a V missing from the edge). They are going to send me a new edge piece, but I assume it will take a month last it did with the cube. It's still usable in the interim though.


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## Kattenvriendin (May 21, 2013)

Ahhh and? Like it? Hate it?


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## littlewing1208 (May 21, 2013)

Kattenvriendin said:


> Ahhh and? Like it? Hate it?



It feels super fast, but has a slight catch here and there relative to my well broken in Zhanchi. I'm sure it'll smooth out with some time.


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## MarcelP (May 21, 2013)

moralsh said:


> To automatize your pll you can try to do them with your eyes closed, I sometimes try to 7-look my solves, plan cross, solve cross with eyes closed, plan first pair, solve it with eyes closed, and so on. It helps me a lot.



yeah, I think I could do a lot better doing actual PLL training. The 7 look solves are great. I have been doing them a lot in train.



Lchu613 said:


> I can recognize most PLL cases from any 2 faces..



I have been working on that a lot lately. It really works for me. But I do make more mistakes than earlier. I am hoping that will go away as I continue to PLL's after looking only looking at two faces.



littlewing1208 said:


> Finally got my milky Zhanchi from zcube.cn .



After getting a lot of pops on my new Fangshi today I did tension it a little more. Resulting in worse times. So I have put the cube away and leave it there for at least two weeks so that for upcomming competition I only use my Milky zhanchi!


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## Lchu613 (May 21, 2013)

I thought the Fangshi was unpoppable.....
Bleh


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## MarcelP (May 22, 2013)

Lchu613 said:


> I thought the Fangshi was unpoppable.....
> Bleh



I have had more pops on my Fangshi in the last few days than on all my Dayans in the last year.


----------



## kunparekh18 (May 22, 2013)

MarcelP said:


> I have had more pops on my Fangshi in the last few days than on all my Dayans in the last year.



That made me LOL!


----------



## Lchu613 (May 22, 2013)

I haven't, since it hasn't arrived it yet
No cube=no pops lol

That's odd though, as I've actually exploded my Zhanchi quite a few times lol

Need to get some proper lube so it's faster so I can tighten it to a proper tension


----------



## MarcelP (May 23, 2013)

I took out the Fangshi again for a video. I did an Ao15. It is a great cube. Too bad I hate it 

I did not realise the timer did not start at the second solve so that one should be dismissed anyway.
Some 2+s in here but still a nice average:


Spoiler



Rubik's cube
23-mei-2013 20:31:45 - 20:43:32

Mean: 25.68
Average: 25.61
Best time: 22.51
Median: 25.34
Worst time: 29.79
Standard deviation: 2.19

Best average of 5: 24.00
5-9 - (23.31) 23.62 24.60 23.77 (29.79)

Best average of 12: 25.63
1-12 - 23.44 (22.51) 25.65 28.49 23.31 23.62 24.60 23.77 (29.79) 27.40 27.04 28.99

1. 23.44 R2 B2 R2 D' F2 U' F2 U B2 D' U2 B L' F R L2 F R' F L D' U2
2. 22.51 U' F2 L2 F2 L2 D' B2 R2 D2 B2 R2 B L2 U R' B L2 U' R' F2 R' D'
3. 25.65 F2 R2 U2 F2 L2 F2 R2 U' R2 U' F' D' L' B F' R F L U F' D2
4. 28.49 U B2 R2 U2 L2 U R2 U' B2 F2 U' L' B' U' F2 D B' R2 F U' R U'
5. 23.31 L2 D L2 U' L2 B2 U' R2 U F2 R2 B L' D B2 D' U B2 F D U2
6. 23.62 L2 D L2 F2 D' L2 D' F2 U2 B2 D2 R' B2 F R2 U F D F U2 L2 U'
7. 24.60 F2 U F2 R2 F2 R2 D' L2 D2 L2 F2 L' F' L B2 R D' U' L2 B R2 F'
8. 23.77 U' B2 D' F2 R2 U' F2 L2 D' F2 D2 L B2 U' B2 L2 U' F' U R' D'
9. 29.79 L2 U' L2 F2 D' R2 D B2 L2 D2 F2 L' B' R D' U' F2 L' B D R L2
10. 27.40 D2 R2 L2 U B2 D L2 D' U' B2 D F' L2 U' R U' R2 B2 L D U'
11. 27.04 D2 F2 U B2 D F2 R2 D' F2 L2 U' L' B' L F' L U B2 D F R2
12. 28.99 D' R2 D2 L2 D F2 U' L2 D' R2 D F L2 U R' L2 U2 F D U2 R'
13. 24.82 R2 F2 L2 D R2 U F2 D2 U B2 U' R F D' R' U B L' B U2 R'
14. 26.47 B2 L2 D' F2 D' R2 D' U2 L2 F2 U2 R F2 R B' D F U' B2 L B2 U
15. 25.34 B2 U2 L2 B2 U F2 D2 R2 D R2 U' R B2 L2 F2 D' F U' B' D'


[video=youtube_share;Wyeczrr1l5Y]http://youtu.be/Wyeczrr1l5Y[/video]


----------



## MarcelP (May 26, 2013)

Ok, nice scramble here:

45. *16.73 * F2 R2 D' R2 F2 D' B2 F2 D L2 D2 F D R F2 U2 B F D' B F' D'

I had 18 seconds on the second try


----------



## sneaklyfox (May 27, 2013)

Nice time, Marcel!

And look, I have a WCA profile now!!!


----------



## Lchu613 (May 27, 2013)

I don't have a WCA profile


----------



## sneaklyfox (May 27, 2013)

The most exciting part of having the results of the comp up was getting my profile lol. I feel all official now haha.


----------



## MarcelP (May 27, 2013)

sneaklyfox said:


> Nice time, Marcel!
> 
> And look, I have a WCA profile now!!!



Awesome! I see I have a 2 X 2 single only 3 - 4 seconds away from your 2 X 2 single. That really makes me feel fast .. I hope next week at Open Eindhoven I hope to get the results you had on OH but then for me with two hands LOL.


----------



## YddEd (May 27, 2013)

sneaklyfox said:


> Nice time, Marcel!
> 
> And look, I have a WCA profile now!!!


You fast


----------



## hcfong (May 27, 2013)

sneaklyfox said:


> Nice time, Marcel!
> 
> And look, I have a WCA profile now!!!



Ooh, Hung. My familiy from my mother's side is called Hung. I wonder if we are related in some way...


----------



## sneaklyfox (May 27, 2013)

hcfong said:


> Ooh, Hung. My familiy from my mother's side is called Hung. I wonder if we are related in some way...



Could be. I'm this Hung: 孔 (descendants of Confucius)


----------



## hcfong (May 27, 2013)

sneaklyfox said:


> Could be. I'm this Hung: 孔 (descendants of Confucius)



Ok. Nope. Doesn't look like we're related.


----------



## KongShou (May 27, 2013)

sneaklyfox said:


> Could be. I'm this Hung: 孔 (descendants of Confucius)



Isn't it KONG: 孔 I'm also descended from Confucius. 
We're related lol!


----------



## Lchu613 (May 27, 2013)

I'm 褚
Not sure who I'm descended from though

Also what's with those DNF's on 2x2?


----------



## Kattenvriendin (May 27, 2013)

O_O

I will never get the names there lol

At least I know my origin is somewhere in France, a knight in the 1100s *chuckle*


----------



## MarcelP (May 27, 2013)

I am a true Viking descendant.


----------



## Lchu613 (May 27, 2013)

Haha, my sister just mentioned that since there's that one child per family rule in China, family trees are going to get very, very boring


----------



## KongShou (May 27, 2013)

Lchu613 said:


> Haha, my sister just mentioned that since there's that one child per family rule in China, family trees are going to get very, very boring



Not really, quite a lot of people r not sticking to that rule


----------



## MarcelP (May 27, 2013)

Is that rule still effective? Or are people allowed to have more than one child in China now?


----------



## sneaklyfox (May 27, 2013)

hcfong said:


> Ok. Nope. Doesn't look like we're related.


Too bad.



KongShou said:


> Isn't it KONG: 孔 I'm also descended from Confucius.
> We're related lol!


Yes, we figured that out already. We even figured out you were one generation before me (I believe you're 75th and I'm 76th). It's Kong for Mandarin. Hung for Cantonese.



Lchu613 said:


> I'm 褚
> Not sure who I'm descended from though
> 
> Also what's with those DNF's on 2x2?


Timer issues. I know... last place on 2x2 lol... if not for those, I probably would have made it to finals.



Lchu613 said:


> Haha, my sister just mentioned that since there's that one child per family rule in China, family trees are going to get very, very boring


Unless families have moved to other places. Like... my husband's side probably won't be boring. He's one of 4 brothers and we are having 5 kids of our own...



MarcelP said:


> Is that rule still effective? Or are people allowed to have more than one child in China now?


I heard a few days ago that the rule is different in villages. But I don't really know. I think you can always have more just that you can't afford it or something.


----------



## KongShou (May 27, 2013)

MarcelP said:


> Is that rule still effective? Or are people allowed to have more than one child in China now?



You are allowed, but u loses all of the benefit, and ur child r not given a nationality(although they always give you it when your child is about to go to school, as without a nationality you can't go to school)


----------



## ben1996123 (May 27, 2013)

maybe this thread should finally be closed, its defiantly not an introduction thread anymore. I clicked this thread to see what people were torcking about in it, and the chinese one child policy isnt really a cubeing introduction topic is it


----------



## cubizh (May 27, 2013)

ben1996123 said:


> maybe this thread should finally be closed, its defiantly not an introduction thread anymore. I clicked this thread to see what people were torcking about in it, and the chinese one child policy isnt really a cubeing introduction topic is it



This thread has been moved to the off-topic section of the forum a while ago.


----------



## Kattenvriendin (May 27, 2013)

Yep, so closing is moot  All this topic are belong to Marcel


----------



## KongShou (May 27, 2013)

ben1996123 said:


> maybe this thread should finally be closed, its defiantly not an introduction thread anymore. I clicked this thread to see what people were torcking about in it, and the chinese one child policy isnt really a cubeing introduction topic is it



How is it not related to cubeing?


----------



## sneaklyfox (May 27, 2013)

It's a nice social place to talk about cubing and sometimes we get a little off topic. But we're already in the off topic forum.


----------



## cubizh (May 27, 2013)

sneaklyfox said:


> It's a nice social place to talk about cubing and sometimes we get a little off topic.



That is a good description of #rubik


----------



## ben1996123 (May 28, 2013)

sneaklyfox said:


> It's a nice social place to talk about cubing and sometimes we get a little off topic. But we're already in the off topic forum.



or you could just use skype


----------



## lcsbiffi (May 28, 2013)

ben1996123 said:


> or you could just use skype



or you could just mind your own business.


----------



## YddEd (May 28, 2013)

Lchu613 said:


> I'm 褚
> Not sure who I'm descended from though


邵 same here 

My mum is 黃 and I'm pretty sure she's a descendant of Yellow Emperor/Huangdi or something.


----------



## sneaklyfox (May 28, 2013)

My husband's family is 黃.


----------



## Gordon (May 31, 2013)

I just saw your MoYu HuanYing review...

"This cube is awesome!"
lol


----------



## MarcelP (May 31, 2013)

Gordon said:


> I just saw your MoYu HuanYing review...
> 
> "This cube is awesome!"
> lol



ha ha.. really! I just love it and will be using it sunday at a competition.


----------



## Kattenvriendin (May 31, 2013)

Where di.. oh.. *goes find video section*

Not there either.. where did you put that?


----------



## cubizh (May 31, 2013)

Kattenvriendin said:


> Where di.. oh.. *goes find video section*
> 
> Not there either.. where did you put that?





Spoiler


----------



## Kattenvriendin (May 31, 2013)

Thank you!


----------



## sneaklyfox (May 31, 2013)

Just watched the HY review. Thanks, Marcel. I really don't know about this cube or the SR though. I don't think I would like loud cubes.


----------



## sneaklyfox (May 31, 2013)

Sorry for the double post and for what I am going to post right now. (I just thought this was a good thread for my question because I consider this a nice social thread on top of some interesting cubing talk and progress reports.) Sooo... I haven't made many videos and was thinking I would start planning for my next video. So which one should I try for?

1) 3x3 sub-15 Ao5
2) 3x3 sub-20 Ao5 with slow turning
3) Pyraminx sub-6 Ao5
4) Pyraminx tutorial keyhole method with example solve(s)
5) Talk about my first cubing competition experience
6) Other

What do you guys think?


----------



## Lchu613 (May 31, 2013)

You're going to get Brest-ed for that double post

I think 5) would be good


----------



## KongShou (May 31, 2013)

sneaklyfox said:


> Sorry for the double post and for what I am going to post right now. (I just thought this was a good thread for my question because I consider this a nice social thread on top of some interesting cubing talk and progress reports.) Sooo... I haven't made many videos and was thinking I would start planning for my next video. So which one should I try for?
> 
> 1) 3x3 sub-15 Ao5
> 2) 3x3 sub-20 Ao5 with slow turning
> ...



Pyra tuts!!!!!!

Ur sub15 now?


----------



## pipkiksass (Jun 1, 2013)

Marcel, you need to put a link to your YouTube channel in your profile, I just had to rewatch your PB vid from your sig to find your MoYu review!

Good review on this and the Fangshi, by the way. If you had to replace your main tomorrow with one of the two, which one would it be? I'm going to be getting both soon, but just curious really!


----------



## sneaklyfox (Jun 1, 2013)

KongShou said:


> Pyra tuts!!!!!!
> 
> Ur sub15 now?



I don't consider myself sub-15 yet, but I can usually manage at least one sub-15 Ao5 a day. Today I did two or three like that (different sessions).


----------



## Gordon (Jun 1, 2013)

sneaklyfox said:


> Sorry for the double post and for what I am going to post right now. (I just thought this was a good thread for my question because I consider this a nice social thread on top of some interesting cubing talk and progress reports.) Sooo... I haven't made many videos and was thinking I would start planning for my next video. So which one should I try for?
> 
> 1) 3x3 sub-15 Ao5
> 2) 3x3 sub-20 Ao5 with slow turning
> ...



I would prefer 4) Pyraminx tutorial keyhole method with example solve(s) since I'm just learning to solve pyraminx and didn't find a good tutorial.


----------



## MarcelP (Jun 1, 2013)

sneaklyfox said:


> Sorry for the double post and for what I am going to post right now. (I just thought this was a good thread for my question because I consider this a nice social thread on top of some interesting cubing talk and progress reports.) Sooo... I haven't made many videos and was thinking I would start planning for my next video. So which one should I try for?
> 
> 1) 3x3 sub-15 Ao5
> 2) 3x3 sub-20 Ao5 with slow turning
> ...


I want to see them all! If I would choose what to see first.. The slow sub 20 would be awesome.. 


pipkiksass said:


> Marcel, you need to put a link to your YouTube channel in your profile, I just had to rewatch your PB vid from your sig to find your MoYu review!
> 
> Good review on this and the Fangshi, by the way. If you had to replace your main tomorrow with one of the two, which one would it be? I'm going to be getting both soon, but just curious really!


Thanks. I added the Youtube in profile. I did not think anyone would be interrested in my video's  

If I would have to replace my main (milky Zhanchi) it would be the MoYu hands down. Today I am switching ao5's between Milky and MoYu. I get about the same times but slightly faster on MoYu. It is truely as good (I think better) as a Dayan Zhanchi.


----------



## Kattenvriendin (Jun 1, 2013)

OK. this gives me hope. hehe.. something at my neighbor now.. likely the cat's food.. hrmph. Wait and see as she isn't home.. weeeeh..

I am curious about that cube alright!


No more curious now.. just got delivered, one moyu!


----------



## Lchu613 (Jun 1, 2013)

Haha nice!
Review quickie quickie


----------



## Kattenvriendin (Jun 1, 2013)

LOL I'll make a video later on


----------



## MarcelP (Jun 1, 2013)

Kattenvriendin said:


> LOL I'll make a video later on



Did you get your Moyu from Wallbuys?


----------



## Kattenvriendin (Jun 1, 2013)

yups!!!


----------



## sneaklyfox (Jun 1, 2013)

Is it the 57mm MoYu or 55mm? At fasttech I saw they have the 55mm version but not the 57mm...


----------



## Kattenvriendin (Jun 1, 2013)

*goes measure* 57mm. Well 56.6 or so.

this is the one I ordered: http://wallbuys.com/Product/MoYu-HuanYing-Three-Layer-Magic-CubeWhite-8038


----------



## MarcelP (Jun 1, 2013)

Mine is 57mm, from HKNow.. I really recommend it. I have done about 200 solves on it.. It does never lockup. My Zhanchi does lock up when I do sloppy solves..


----------



## Kattenvriendin (Jun 1, 2013)

That is the one thing about this cube.. solve sloppy: lots of noise, solve neat: pretty neat sound.

Very good indicator.. the more noise it makes the sloppier you are lol


----------



## mark49152 (Jun 1, 2013)

sneaklyfox said:


> Is it the 57mm MoYu or 55mm? At fasttech I saw they have the 55mm version but not the 57mm...


Damn, I didn't know there were two sizes! I ordered from Fasttech so looks like I'm getting the 55mm. Now I'll have to order another


----------



## sneaklyfox (Jun 2, 2013)

mark49152 said:


> Damn, I didn't know there were two sizes! I ordered from Fasttech so looks like I'm getting the 55mm. Now I'll have to order another



Send me your 55mm.


----------



## moralsh (Jun 2, 2013)

Marcel, You better slow turn on the second round or whatever, I need you to beat my 30.6 average and you can d it by a lot!


----------



## mark49152 (Jun 2, 2013)

Good luck at the comp today!


----------



## MarcelP (Jun 2, 2013)

Thanks guys. I had a great day. But my times where horrifying.. Lol. Whole day I was racing with Kattenvriendin and Maria and was steadily getting 24 - 26 results, hardly ever got one over 30 seconds. And when I am the table for the competition my hands lock up (not the cube) and I have no look ahead.. My best time with Moyu was 29 seconds, and best time with Fangsi was 27.00 seconds. Of course that 27 made my day although I was counting on a sub 27 average.. 

[video=youtube_share;RIryGrY73dc]http://youtu.be/RIryGrY73dc[/video]


----------



## Kattenvriendin (Jun 2, 2013)

I am trying to watch the vid but it threw errors.. for those who get the errors: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RIryGrY73dc


Mind.. for what it is worth.. Amstelveen is going to be yours.. OWN it hehe


----------



## moralsh (Jun 2, 2013)

You'll have a couple of chances to do better in October, and so will I as our spanish championship is about the same date. 

I'd really love to go to one of the dutch comps


----------



## Kattenvriendin (Jun 2, 2013)

There is Amstelveen and Dutch Open in October HINTHINT


----------



## MarcelP (Jun 3, 2013)

Kattenvriendin said:


> I am trying to watch the vid but it threw errors.. for those who get the errors: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RIryGrY73dc
> 
> 
> Mind.. for what it is worth.. Amstelveen is going to be yours.. OWN it hehe



Thanks, I fixed the video. I did it on my iPad and that does not seem to go well  Yes, Amstelveen is where I really hope on normal times!



moralsh said:


> You'll have a couple of chances to do better in October, and so will I as our spanish championship is about the same date.
> 
> I'd really love to go to one of the dutch comps



If you come to Amstelveen, you will have most of the cool events on one day! It will be very nice to meet you!


----------



## sneaklyfox (Jun 6, 2013)

MarcelP said:


> I want to see them all! If I would choose what to see first.. The slow sub 20 would be awesome..



Well, since I asked in Marcel's thread, I'm honouring his request first. Sorry if it's a bit faster than you'd like... I was trying to go slow...
Pyraminx keyhole method tutorial is next on the list. I already did some filming for it.






Cube: Dayan Guhong v1
Average: 16.85
17.56, (19.57), 16.32, (15.61), 16.66

Trying to be smooth during F2L and a fair bit slower than normal during LL. It was a little faster than I was planning for this video. This is probably a good speed for me to practice at though... I still have pauses.

The sighing before the 3rd solve was because I thought someone was going to talk to me but then it didn't happen. I had tried this several times already and each time either my battery died or the memory card ran out of space or I went a little too slowly or something else and I was close to giving up.


----------



## mark49152 (Jun 6, 2013)

This is great, thanks Sneakly! Scrambles and reconstructions would be good too. When I see these slow solves, I have mixed feelings - I'm both encouraged at how achievable it looks, and despondent that it doesn't look any faster than I turn now yet somehow my clock runs faster than yours  I know I have pauses, but surely not 20s of them!


----------



## KongShou (Jun 6, 2013)

mark49152 said:


> This is great, thanks Sneakly! Scrambles and reconstructions would be good too. When I see these slow solves, I have mixed feelings - I'm both encouraged at how achievable it looks, and despondent that it doesn't look any faster than I turn now yet somehow my clock runs faster than yours  I know I have pauses, but surely not 20s of them!



It's f2l efficiency dude. Her f2l is probably twice as short as your or something.


----------



## jayefbe (Jun 6, 2013)

Please keep making videos Sneakly! That was great, your F2L looks very efficient, and I love how smooth your turning is. I would love reconstructions too, if anyone is willing to do them. 

A bit off topic, how do you like the Guhong v1? I have one, and really didn't like it at first, but it's really starting to grow on me. It's become my go-to cube when I want to play around with Roux.


----------



## MarcelP (Jun 6, 2013)

Thanks Melody. That was awesome. How can a 16 seconds average be slow.. LOL Your turning (and look ahead) is perfect. I really hope to get there at one point. I would love to see the scrambles and reconstructs since I think you do F2L much more efficient than me.


----------



## YddEd (Jun 6, 2013)

sneaklyfox said:


> 3rd solve


Are you colour neutral? I think that I saw the green cross was pretty good


----------



## mark49152 (Jun 6, 2013)

KongShou said:


> It's f2l efficiency dude. Her f2l is probably twice as short as your or something.


If her F2L averages 15 moves then tips please  Seriously, my brain's good at efficiency, it just does it really slowly. I know it's my brain's fault coz my fingers are nowhere near maxed out.


----------



## Lchu613 (Jun 7, 2013)

Wait, 15 move F2L?
I'm all ears


----------



## sneaklyfox (Jun 7, 2013)

mark49152 said:


> This is great, thanks Sneakly! Scrambles and reconstructions would be good too. When I see these slow solves, I have mixed feelings - I'm both encouraged at how achievable it looks, and despondent that it doesn't look any faster than I turn now yet somehow my clock runs faster than yours  I know I have pauses, but surely not 20s of them!



Unfortunately I accidentally lost the scrambles. If you can see the scrambles at the top of my screen and compare with the video you might be able to reconstruct the scramble. I think pauses can easily take up more time than you think. If one move doesn't flow right into the next one, it could be 0.1s say (hypothetically) and a 60-move solve means 6 seconds lost just from not having the smoothest turning.



jayefbe said:


> Please keep making videos Sneakly! That was great, your F2L looks very efficient, and I love how smooth your turning is. I would love reconstructions too, if anyone is willing to do them.
> 
> A bit off topic, how do you like the Guhong v1? I have one, and really didn't like it at first, but it's really starting to grow on me. It's become my go-to cube when I want to play around with Roux.



Thanks for all the encouragement! It makes me feel good about making more videos. I hope the pyraminx tutorial will be ok when I get around to editing it (currently I have to reinstall the movie maker program before I can do that stuff.) I don't think I'm very good when it comes to talking.

Guhong v1 was the first real speedcube I got. I liked it a lot except I wondered about the pieces jiggling around and making noise but it doesn't bother me now. I am using a 55mm Zhanchi as my main (I don't have a full sized one) which I used in my comp but I always like to take out my Guhong and play with it again. I think that maybe I like smoother cubes after all and always wondering whether I should get a Guhong v2 because I've heard so much good stuff about it. The only think I don't like as much is it doesn't cut corners as well as the Zhanchi and has a slightly more blocky feeling, but the smoothness feels great!



MarcelP said:


> Thanks Melody. That was awesome. How can a 16 seconds average be slow.. LOL Your turning (and look ahead) is perfect. I really hope to get there at one point. I would love to see the scrambles and reconstructs since I think you do F2L much more efficient than me.



My turning is ok I think but my look ahead is nowhere near perfect, even at the slower speed I was trying for. I'm not a good reconstructor plus I don't have much time right now. I think it would take me an hour just to reconstruct one solve. But maybe if I feel really *bored* I will try.



YddEd said:


> Are you colour neutral? I think that I saw the green cross was pretty good



I tried the CN thing but decided in the end that I would rather not. But I am dual W/Y neutral. In this video however I think I did all white crosses.



mark49152 said:


> If her F2L averages 15 moves then tips please  Seriously, my brain's good at efficiency, it just does it really slowly. I know it's my brain's fault coz my fingers are nowhere near maxed out.



LOL... no way my F2L is 15 moves. I'm not that efficient and I still do too much cube rotation. It's probably mostly just look ahead.
@mark49152, do you have a video of you solving?


----------



## MarcelP (Jun 7, 2013)

Ok, want to start something. 

First, I am also very interested in a video of Mark. So this is what I propose: Let's start a race here called, 'cool like Sneaklyfox'. The goal, make a video with an Ao5. 'We' don't care about the times you have, all you have to do, is turn as slow as you can and get the best times with that. The video of Melody made me realise that I have stopped looking ahead completely. I have improved my TPS (appearantly) so I have slightly better averages than 5 months ago. But 5 months ago I had a very good at looking ahead. I tried a few sloves with slow turning, and to my great surprise I had great times. So today I am going to try to make a video with slow turning that has an average of at least sub 27-28 seconds. Jay!


----------



## Kattenvriendin (Jun 7, 2013)

Amazing.. I went back to the slow turning as well.. getting easy times under 40 seconds. It helps to slow down and re-grip the lookahead


----------



## mark49152 (Jun 7, 2013)

sneaklyfox said:


> LOL... no way my F2L is 15 moves. I'm not that efficient and I still do too much cube rotation. It's probably mostly just look ahead.
> @mark49152, do you have a video of you solving?


My joke got a bit lost . Kong said your F2L probably had half the moves of mine. I counted mine over 25 solves recently and average about 30 moves although in a real solve I guess I don't always make the most efficient choices, so more like 32-33. Anyway, efficiency isn't my problem. Not sure what optimal is, but 30's not bad.



MarcelP said:


> Ok, want to start something. First, I am also very interested in a video of Mark. So this is what I propose: Let's start a race here called, 'cool like Sneaklyfox'. The goal, make a video with an Ao5. 'We' don't care about the times you have, all you have to do, is turn as slow as you can and get the best times with that. The video of Melody made me realise that I have stopped looking ahead completely. I have improved my TPS (appearantly) so I have slightly better averages than 5 months ago. But 5 months ago I had a very good at looking ahead. I tried a few sloves with slow turning, and to my great surprise I had great times. So today I am going to try to make a video with slow turning that has an average of at least sub 27-28 seconds. Jay!


I'm up for that, although I've never posted a video so will have to work that out. I'm still focusing all my practice on getting F2L (pairs only) under 15s consistently. It's been 3 weeks and I have only got worse, although lookahead is starting to feel a bit easier. It's actually pretty hard work and lack of progress is denting my morale a bit - if it's this hard for me to get F2L times commensurate with a 30s solve, where is my limit?


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## MarcelP (Jun 7, 2013)

mark49152 said:


> It's actually pretty hard work and lack of progress is denting my morale a bit - if it's this hard for me to get F2L times commensurate with a 30s solve, where is my limit?



Well, Mark the one good thing about cubing is that without any effort, just by doing solves every day, your brain will get to find pairs quicker. I bet that in 6 months from now you will have no problems what so ever being sub 30. Of course dedicated training on other stuff like cross, LL or even F2L helps a lot too


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## MarcelP (Jun 7, 2013)

Here is my first try, and first solves of today.. 



Spoiler



Rubik's cube
7-jun-2013 10:31:10 - 10:34:57

Mean: 26.32
Average: 26.03
Best time: 22.71
Median: 25.03
Worst time: 30.79
Standard deviation: 2.85

Best average of 5: 26.03
1-5 - (30.79) 28.22 24.84 (22.71) 25.03

1. 30.79 R2 L2 U2 B2 D' F2 U' R2 B2 R2 D F R' U' B2 R D' U B2 R2 F' D2
2. 28.22 R2 L2 D' R2 B2 F2 D' U2 R2 F2 U' B D R F2 U' L2 U2 L F' U2
3. 24.84 D' L2 B2 D' B2 U R2 U2 R2 U2 R' U' B D F L F' U2 B2 R2 U'
4. 22.71 F2 D2 F2 D2 F2 R2 U' F2 U R2 U2 L' D F R' D2 F' R' L2 F2 L'
5. 25.03 U R2 L2 D L2 D' F2 U' B2 U' L B' U' B2 R' U B L F' D2



[video=youtube_share;KawiLKRa7F4]http://youtu.be/KawiLKRa7F4[/video]


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## Gordon (Jun 7, 2013)

MarcelP said:


> Ok, want to start something.
> 
> First, I am also very interested in a video of Mark. So this is what I propose: Let's start a race here called, 'cool like Sneaklyfox'. The goal, make a video with an Ao5. 'We' don't care about the times you have, all you have to do, is turn as slow as you can and get the best times with that. The video of Melody made me realise that I have stopped looking ahead completely. I have improved my TPS (appearantly) so I have slightly better averages than 5 months ago. But 5 months ago I had a very good at looking ahead. I tried a few sloves with slow turning, and to my great surprise I had great times. So today I am going to try to make a video with slow turning that has an average of at least sub 27-28 seconds. Jay!



Good Idea! but I think it would be good to all use the same scrambles. Since you've already recorded your video, I propose that all use your scrambles:

1. R2 L2 U2 B2 D' F2 U' R2 B2 R2 D F R' U' B2 R D' U B2 R2 F' D2
2. R2 L2 D' R2 B2 F2 D' U2 R2 F2 U' B D R F2 U' L2 U2 L F' U2
3. D' L2 B2 D' B2 U R2 U2 R2 U2 R' U' B D F L F' U2 B2 R2 U'
4. F2 D2 F2 D2 F2 R2 U' F2 U R2 U2 L' D F R' D2 F' R' L2 F2 L'
5. U R2 L2 D L2 D' F2 U' B2 U' L B' U' B2 R' U B L F' D2


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## Kattenvriendin (Jun 7, 2013)

I'll try that when the mail has come.. two mail companies coming over today.. gah.

I want to bet they come right in the midst of my solves hahahah.


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## MarcelP (Jun 7, 2013)

sneaklyfox said:


> Guhong v1 was the first real speedcube I got. I liked it a lot except I wondered about the pieces jiggling around and making noise but it doesn't bother me now. I am using a 55mm Zhanchi as my main (I don't have a full sized one) which I used in my comp but I always like to take out my Guhong and play with it again. I think that maybe I like smoother cubes after all and always wondering whether I should get a Guhong v2 because I've heard so much good stuff about it. The only think I don't like as much is it doesn't cut corners as well as the Zhanchi and has a slightly more blocky feeling, but the smoothness feels great!



I think you are spot on. Guhong V2 is more blocky compared to a Zhanchi. I think you should try a 57 mm Zhanchi first  




Kattenvriendin said:


> I'll try that when the mail has come.. two mail companies coming over today.. gah.
> 
> I want to bet they come right in the midst of my solves hahahah.



What are you expecting? Cubes?


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## Kattenvriendin (Jun 7, 2013)

Cubes and pet hair rollers for my clothes hahaha.

The rollers are in.. started the vid.. uploading soon. It sucks.. I blow (my nose lol).


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## mark49152 (Jun 7, 2013)

MarcelP said:


> Well, Mark the one good thing about cubing is that without any effort, just by doing solves every day, your brain will get to find pairs quicker. I bet that in 6 months from now you will have no problems what so ever being sub 30. Of course dedicated training on other stuff like cross, LL or even F2L helps a lot too


Thanks for the encouragement  I'm just too impatient. Slow progress is fine, but I just hate long plateaus, or getting worse! 

On practice, I'm coming to the conclusion that too much unfocused practice is harmful. It helps bad habits set in which are then hard to break. At the moment I'm doing nothing but lookahead and blind practice, to try try to reset my habit of watching the pieces being solved.


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## BenVdd (Jun 7, 2013)

I did this slow turning Ao5 and by god was i impressed with my results! 
These couple of months i was inactive all i have been doing is slower solves in public to let time pass by while waiting for stuff.

results:


Spoiler



stats: (hide)
number of times: 5/5
best time: 18.19
worst time: 24.83

current avg5: 23.36 (σ = 0.94)
best avg5: 23.36 (σ = 0.94)

session avg: 23.36 (σ = 0.94)
session mean: 22.62

EDITTT: Damn , forgot to post my 5 times. i thikn besides the best and worst times there was a 22.x a 23.x and another 24.x)




Safe to say I am extremely happy with these results!

Edit: I should do another ao100 again some day
Edit²: I should also search for a good way to videotape my solves...


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## Kattenvriendin (Jun 7, 2013)

Mine.. I am more impressed by my 28s off camera than these times lol



Spoiler



[video=youtube_share;xeloGNA5OOg]http://youtu.be/xeloGNA5OOg[/video]




1. 27.86 R2 L2 U2 B2 D' F2 U' R2 B2 R2 D F R' U' B2 R D' U B2 R2 F' D2
2. 31.46 R2 L2 D' R2 B2 F2 D' U2 R2 F2 U' B D R F2 U' L2 U2 L F' U2
3. 32.29 D' L2 B2 D' B2 U R2 U2 R2 U2 R' U' B D F L F' U2 B2 R2 U'
4. 36.15 F2 D2 F2 D2 F2 R2 U' F2 U R2 U2 L' D F R' D2 F' R' L2 F2 L'
5. 32.82 U R2 L2 D L2 D' F2 U' B2 U' L B' U' B2 R' U B L F' D2



I must have cheated, my first time is faster than the rest.


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## MarcelP (Jun 7, 2013)

BenVdd said:


> I did this slow turning Ao5 and by god was i impressed with my results! session avg: 23.36 (σ = 0.94)
> session mean: 22.62



No video, it did not happen  LOL



Kattenvriendin said:


> Mine.. I am more impressed by my 28s off camera than these times lol
> I must have cheated, my first time is faster than the rest.



Looks pretty cool to me. You have a natural solve style. I just did a sub 25 Ao5 slow.. I might upload that one aswell.


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## BenVdd (Jun 7, 2013)

fair enough ^^


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## sneaklyfox (Jun 7, 2013)

Nice slow solves!

Edit: I think I missed a few posts. Wow... I feel honoured to have a race named after me... and happy if it helps to motivate some slow solve look ahead practice!


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## sneaklyfox (Jun 7, 2013)

mark49152 said:


> My joke got a bit lost . Kong said your F2L probably had half the moves of mine. I counted mine over 25 solves recently and average about 30 moves although in a real solve I guess I don't always make the most efficient choices, so more like 32-33. Anyway, efficiency isn't my problem. Not sure what optimal is, but 30's not bad.



30 moves is quite good. Wait... does that include cross?


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## mark49152 (Jun 7, 2013)

sneaklyfox said:


> 30 moves is quite good. Wait... does that include cross?


No. It was 7.2 moves each for the first 3 pairs and 8 for the 4th.


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## sneaklyfox (Jun 7, 2013)

mark49152 said:


> No. It was 7.2 moves each for the first 3 pairs and 8 for the 4th.



Ok, but still good. I just tried 25 solves and counted my F2L (not including cross and aiming for fewer move count) and average was 28-29 so not much difference. I don't always do what's most "efficient" in terms of less move count though because of rotations and things like that. For example...

Set up: B U B'
"Normal": y R U' R'
I sometimes like to do this: r' U r U' r' U' r


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## Schmidt (Jun 7, 2013)

Not really slow-turning, but it's been a while since I last taped myself.






The first ~90 sec I just hand-scramble the cubes.


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## mark49152 (Jun 7, 2013)

sneaklyfox said:


> Set up: B U B'
> "Normal": y R U' R'
> I sometimes like to do this: r' U r U' r' U' r


That's nice, I haven't seen that before. I do lots of d and d' moves to reduce rotations (although technically maybe they are still rotations). For this case I would do either d L U2 L' or d' R' F R F'. I also use lots of sledgehammers front and back, e.g. setup L U L' U', solve r' U r B', using right index to pull U and push B' in one smooth movement.


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## MarcelP (Jun 8, 2013)

Schmidt said:


> Not really slow-turning, but it's been a while since I last taped myself.



Nice! I like your turn style. Still I see pauses but your times are better than mine. I have done a few more video's and most where around 26 seconds. I had two sub 25 averages on video.. I think I am on to something now.. I am going to focus on nothing but slow turning and lookahead for a month or so. We'll see what happens


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## MarcelP (Jun 8, 2013)

After 'modding' my white MoYu I decided to do my black one aswell. I prefer the silence and more heavy feeling a lot better. Btw, are there any MoYu haters here? I just love this cube. The white one is my current main.


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## mark49152 (Jun 8, 2013)

MarcelP said:


> I am going to focus on nothing but slow turning and lookahead for a month or so. We'll see what happens


Great, me too! I'm 3 weeks in already but am nowhere near reaching my target yet. I'll make a video when I can, but I have an idea for a video I'd like to see from you guys: metronome solves. Set the metronome to 180bpm or 150 or something and bang out each solve without missing a beat. You may speed up during LL but get bonus points for sticking to the beat at F2L/OLL/PLL transitions  

This is what my "holy grail" solve style would be - even if the beat isn't super fast, the solve would be smooth and rhythmic and relentless, like a 400m runner pounding the track...

What do you think?


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## MarcelP (Jun 8, 2013)

Sounds very cool! I am in. Are there online metronomes?


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## Kattenvriendin (Jun 8, 2013)

http://www.metronomeonline.com/

of course.. just hit "on" in the image and fiddle about hehe


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## sneaklyfox (Jun 8, 2013)

mark49152 said:


> Great, me too! I'm 3 weeks in already but am nowhere near reaching my target yet. I'll make a video when I can, but I have an idea for a video I'd like to see from you guys: metronome solves. Set the metronome to 180bpm or 150 or something and bang out each solve without missing a beat. You may speed up during LL but get bonus points for sticking to the beat at F2L/OLL/PLL transitions
> 
> This is what my "holy grail" solve style would be - even if the beat isn't super fast, the solve would be smooth and rhythmic and relentless, like a 400m runner pounding the track...
> 
> What do you think?



Points? So we get a score? So do you prefer full solve with 180bpm or do you want to see fastest possible OLL/PLL with minimal stop between those two steps?

Edit: Oh yeah, and are things like R2 supposed to be in one beat or two?


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## mark49152 (Jun 8, 2013)

sneaklyfox said:


> Points? So we get a score?


Yeah why not, let's make it a competition, and let's level the playing field . How about this: divide 4000 by your current ao50 or ao100, and that gives your bpm. So mine would be 4000/35.7 = 112bpm. Set the metronome and solve full F2L. Your score is the number of missed beats, lower is better. We can do ao5 or ao12, up to you, depends how interesting this is 



sneaklyfox said:


> So do you prefer full solve with 180bpm or do you want to see fastest possible OLL/PLL with minimal stop between those two steps?


Since this is about lookahead, I guess there's less point doing LL algs. We could make it F2L only, unless you think this might be useful for testing OLL/PLL recognition or prediction. What do you think?



sneaklyfox said:


> Edit: Oh yeah, and are things like R2 supposed to be in one beat or two?


I'd say one beat, but I'm slower and ought to be able to double-flick U2 in one 112bpm beat. Would that work for you at your speed? I guess it doesn't matter either way as long as we're consistent. The 4000 number is based on the average number of HTM moves in my F2L, so if we go for one quarter move per beat I'll calculate a new number based on QTM.


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## sneaklyfox (Jun 8, 2013)

mark49152 said:


> Yeah why not, let's make it a competition, and let's level the playing field . How about this: divide 4000 by your current ao50 or ao100, and that gives your bpm. So mine would be 4000/35.7 = 112bpm. Set the metronome and solve full F2L. Your score is the number of missed beats, lower is better. We can do ao5 or ao12, up to you, depends how interesting this is
> 
> Since this is about lookahead, I guess there's less point doing LL algs. We could make it F2L only, unless you think this might be useful for testing OLL/PLL recognition or prediction. What do you think?
> 
> I'd say one beat, but I'm slower and ought to be able to double-flick U2 in one 112bpm beat. Would that work for you at your speed? I guess it doesn't matter either way as long as we're consistent. The 4000 number is based on the average number of HTM moves in my F2L, so if we go for one quarter move per beat I'll calculate a new number based on QTM.



I guess I am lucky that I have been doing some slow solves lately. My current Ao100 is 18.02 but that still gives me 222bpm. Metronomeonline.com only goes up to 208 though... is there another online metronome that you know of that goes higher (though I guess I could dig out my digital metronome and put some batteries in it... I am a music teacher after all... should have a metronome lying around)...

F2L only (including cross??) sounds good to me. Sure we can do HTM so double flicks have to be done in one beat. I like how the playing field is leveled... I hate metronome practice though...


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## mark49152 (Jun 9, 2013)

I haven't searched online but have an Android app on my phone that goes up to 300.

Just tried an ao5: (12), 14, 13, 20, (24) = 15.67

I found it really hard as I haven't included cross in metronome practice before and it threw me for the first pair or two. Also it was really hard to take the score. I tried a few methods and the one that worked best was to video the solve then count the beats and count the moves for each solve, then subtract. Counting missed beats as I solved was too distracting, and counting missed beats in the video was too difficult because moves and beats didn't always exactly coincide.


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## sneaklyfox (Jun 9, 2013)

I was wondering about that too... how to count the missed beats. That might be too hard.

Edit: Oh yeah, and also I think it doesn't really work too well when you get to faster speeds to do metronome practice...


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## YddEd (Jun 9, 2013)

Using a metronome isn't too fun. I just used to solve slow. Using a metronome was annoying.


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## Lchu613 (Jun 9, 2013)

I find that metronome solving disrupts the flow of your solving


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## mark49152 (Jun 9, 2013)

Yes it's difficult - that's the whole point!


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## Kattenvriendin (Jun 9, 2013)

http://truefire.com/metronome/ well over 400 should be enough? lol just click the Time 4/4 thing to 1/4 

You can change the bpm by selecting the number and entering your own value.. no need to click that + button over and over hehe


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## MarcelP (Jun 9, 2013)

mark49152 said:


> Yes it's difficult - that's the whole point!



I don't hate it. I just find it very difficult.  I love to have something I can work on. So far up to 120 bpm goes fine


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## MarcelP (Jun 9, 2013)

Ok, Mark,

I did one test run. Can you tell me if I understand the game? I divided 4000 through my average of 100 resulting in a 138 BPM. I set the PrismaTimer to F2L training (leaving me completed crosses):

[video=youtube_share;jsYTqPMtdFs]http://youtu.be/jsYTqPMtdFs[/video]

So I missed two beats I think.. Man, that is tough..


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## mark49152 (Jun 9, 2013)

sneaklyfox said:


> I was wondering about that too... how to count the missed beats. That might be too hard.


Yeah I think I found it hard because I was missing so many. If you're pretty much keeping the rhythm and only missing one or two, it's much easier to count as you solve. I tried at 90bpm and missed 3 without having to resort to video to check.



sneaklyfox said:


> Edit: Oh yeah, and also I think it doesn't really work too well when you get to faster speeds to do metronome practice...


Yeah I wouldn't kow about that . I guess when you're that much faster, you must have pretty good lookahead anyway.



MarcelP said:


> I did one test run. Can you tell me if I understand the game? I divided 4000 through my average of 100 resulting in a 138 BPM. I set the PrismaTimer to F2L training (leaving me completed crosses): So I missed two beats I think.. Man, that is tough..


That's impressive . It also looks like you're doing some double moves on one beat there, like R'U? I did cross as well and will try again without. I also didn't bother timing myself, just the metronome.


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## MarcelP (Jun 9, 2013)

mark49152 said:


> I also didn't bother timing myself, just the metronome.



No, I also do not look at the times. I just use the Timer for the F2L scrambles. I think I might go to hand scrambles and do also cross. I think if you really master this game, you are up to beat Mats and Feliks


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## pipkiksass (Jun 9, 2013)

Feliks posted a vid of himself "slow" turning sub 10 a couple of years ago. I'm on my mobile, or I'd link it!

I'm definitely up for this. Lots of slow turning practice, some metronome solves, and who knows, I might have a tiny bit of lookahead in a few weeks.

Depending on how it goes, I may even play Mark's game.

Love the rules btw Mark, reminded me of reading the explanation of your metric for 1-look vs 2-look OLLs. I love your analytical approach to cubing, interesting theories backed up with hard facts. Really appeals to the way my mind works.

That said, I think the Cool like a Sneaklyfox race/ slow turning game deserves it's own thread. There should be a rule though - no sub xx cubers (I'd suggest 20s cutoff?), as the purpose of the game, I guess, is for those who can't look ahead effectively to learn how to do so, rather than those who can already to embarrass us!!

p.s. My lookahead sucks!


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## KongShou (Jun 9, 2013)

pipkiksass said:


> Feliks posted a vid of himself "slow" turning sub 10 a couple of years ago. I'm on my mobile, or I'd link it!
> 
> I'm definitely up for this. Lots of slow turning practice, some metronome solves, and who knows, I might have a tiny bit of lookahead in a few weeks.
> 
> ...



"Slow" I.e. me turning at full speed and still failing to look ahead


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## pipkiksass (Jun 9, 2013)

KongShou said:


> "Slow" I.e. me turning at full speed and still failing to look ahead



I lied, it's a 10.77 Ao5 -


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## Lchu613 (Jun 10, 2013)

That's just depressing to me.
Excuse me while I go cry.
/cries


Why is he so good?


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## sneaklyfox (Jun 10, 2013)

Lchu613 said:


> That's just depressing to me.
> Excuse me while I go cry.
> /cries
> 
> ...



Really? Because I find that encouraging to me. I just need to keep practicing look ahead to eliminate pauses in my solve and I could be like that too. I think I can turn that fast...


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## mark49152 (Jun 10, 2013)

@pipkiksass: That's good to hear  

I'm definitely up for running a Cool Like A Sneaklyfox competition thread, but I think the game needs a bit more testing first. If there's some entries here and interest in doing it regularly, then I'll make the comp thread!

Here's a refinement of the rules. This is here for review and discussion, so please chip in if you have ideas for how we can make this work.

Divide 4000 by your current ao50 or ao100 to get your metronome target bpm.
Set your metronome and start solving. For each solve, scramble and inspect as normal, then solve cross and F2L, at an even rhythmic pace, with one turn per metronome beat. Double turns like R2 and U2 on one beat. Rotations on one beat. Don't score the last layer, stop after F2L.
Your score is the number of times you miss beats due to pauses. Lower is better. Each time you miss beats, add +1. If you miss several consecutive beats, that still counts as +1, so take a pause to get your solve back on track, or to note down your score. If you make mistakes due to time pressure, like making unnecessary U moves or inserting the wrong slot, add a penalty of +1 and again take a pause if you want to. If you hit 5, stop counting: a score >=5 is a DNF, as it suggests you had a total lookahead meltdown and messed up all four pairs and your cross as well .
You don't need to time your solves. Only the beat score counts. 
Each entry should be an ao12 of beat scores, as usual - subtract the best and worst scores and take the mean of the rest. An ao12 of 0 means you have perfect lookahead  An ao12 of >3 or DNF suggests you should maybe practice at a slower bpm first. 
I changed the scoring to try to make it easier to keep score as you solve, without having to video yourself. That's the thing I found hardest.

Results would be presented as follows:-

Ranking of the week's scores - the nice thing about this is that the bpm handicap levels the playing field, so someone with a 30s average can still rank better at lookahead than someone with a 15s average.
Ranking of graduates - after three consecutive 0 ao12s, you graduate at that bpm, and can step it up by 10bpm or more if you want to keep competing. The graduate table will be ranked by bpm.

So, here is Round 1!

For this first round, generate your own scrambles.
Submit a list of scores and your average, and please also comment on how well the rules and scoring worked for you.
Closing date is Sunday.
Need >=5 entrants to justify turning this into a comp thread.

Good luck


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## aznanimedude (Jun 10, 2013)

Lchu613 said:


> That's just depressing to me.
> Excuse me while I go cry.
> /cries
> 
> ...



isn't that also a Rubiks Brand Cube too?


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## Lchu613 (Jun 10, 2013)

aznanimedude said:


> isn't that also a Rubiks Brand Cube too?



Oh god it is


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## MarcelP (Jun 10, 2013)

mark49152 said:


> So, here is Round 1!
> 
> For this first round, generate your own scrambles.
> Submit a list of scores and your average, and please also comment on how well the rules and scoring worked for you.
> ...



OMG, that is so tough:

Round 1

Best average of 12: 23.36
1-12 - 27.87 21.57 18.35 23.50 21.21 27.89 (16.06) 23.29 23.32 27.35 (37.11) 19.28


1 1
2 4
3 0
4 2
5 0
6 DNF
7 1
8 2
9 3
10 DNF
11 DNF
12 0 

I filmed a few for your merry amusement.. I so s#ck at metronome..LOL


Spoiler



[video=youtube_share;0ltlImqP0vo]http://youtu.be/0ltlImqP0vo[/video]


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## sneaklyfox (Jun 10, 2013)

Nice ideas. Except I don't think it warrants the proposed title as I didn't do metronome solves in my "slow solves".


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## mark49152 (Jun 10, 2013)

sneaklyfox said:


> Nice ideas. Except I don't think it warrants the proposed title as I didn't do metronome solves in my "slow solves".


Not sure who came up with that title but I think they were inspired by your awesome smoothness  Maybe we could call it "Relentless like MarcelP"?  

I need a few more hours practice before putting in my own entry. My lookahead is awful and all I would get if I submitted today would be an array of DNFs


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## sneaklyfox (Jun 11, 2013)

mark49152 said:


> Not sure who came up with that title but I think they were inspired by your awesome smoothness  Maybe we could call it "Relentless like MarcelP"?
> 
> I need a few more hours practice before putting in my own entry. My lookahead is awful and all I would get if I submitted today would be an array of DNFs



I thought the original title was for slow solve videos that MarcelP suggested. The new race thing with a metronome is a separate idea that I think you started.


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## pipkiksass (Jun 11, 2013)

Yeah, that's how I remember it too!

I think calling it anyone's anything will limit the number of entries, unless it just becomes "The Metronome Race Thread", or somesuch. Many will ignore a thread called "Relentless like MarcelP", through not being relentless enough! 

@Mark, following your request for rule amendments:

I think there should be set time brackets, like in the 'race to' threads. In other words, rather than just 'divide 4000 by Ao100', I think there should be some rounding involved, i.e. have 'race to 180bpm'; 'race to 150bpm', 'race to 120bpm'. Participant takes 4000/Ao100(or 50), and rounds down to nearest race bracket. 

For example, my Ao100 is normally around 25 seconds, so I get 160bpm. If I set a metronome to this, I know for sure I will DNF 75% of my solves, as I've never done any metronome practice. If I round down to 150bpm, I will probably DNF a few at first, but after a few weeks, maybe 'graduate' from this to the 'Race to 180bpm'.

I think intervals of 30bpm would be sufficient, starting at maybe 60? Based on an average of 60 turns for a relatively efficient CFOP solve, this would mean:

Race to 60 BPM ~ 60s averages ~ 1tps
Race to 90 BPM ~ 40s averages ~ 1.5tps
Race to 120 BPM ~ 30s averages = 2tps
Race to 150 BPM ~ 24s averages = 2.5tps
Race to 180 BPM ~ 20s averages = 3tps
Race to 210 BPM ~ 17s averages = 3.5tps
Race to 240 BPM ~ 15s averages = 4tps

etc. This means big jumps at first, but I don't think lookahead should really be a concern till at least ~40s, as if you're significantly sup-40 and know your f2l cases well, there's something wrong. If there was popular demand for it, no reason why other brackets, like 75bpm, couldn't be added.

This would also make running the thread easier, as you wouldn't be looking at graduates from obscure numbers, like the race to 157 bpm race, people would be lumped together. Just with the time race threads, obtaining 3 passes in a row = graduation and optional participation in the next race. 

I like the scoring system, I think that will work well. Following on from my points above, although the races would be separate, you could still graph scores across all races based on lookahead score. 

I'll be doing my entry tonight, if I have time. Might even film it as well - if it's not too horrendous then I'll put it on yt.


----------



## mark49152 (Jun 11, 2013)

*@sneaklyfox: *Yes you're right, I misappropriated the title, sorry!

*@pipkiksass: *"Race to bpm" does make it more like other races, although it changes the game somewhat. Deriving bpm from ao100 basically gives a "lookahead score" independent of how fast you are. As a 35s solver I might be smoother than an 18s solver, albeit at half the pace. So there would be no "race to 157bpm", just a single "race to perfect smoothness" . 

A bit like how in the other races, different people enter the same race with change of method, or OH, or 3x3 on 6x6, etc. Here just different bpm's.

I like the rounding idea and that would have some lumping-together effect anyway, for those who are interested in racing others at the same bpm level.

*@MarcelP: *Looking good  Its interesting that apart from the first two, your scores and times are roughly correlated - faster solves had better lookahead scores. Was this at 120bpm? In your video, I noticed again that you're doing multiple moves per beat, like R'U or RUR' on one beat. The point is that by slowing down and doing one move per beat you give yourself more time to look ahead, and that 138bpm might not be so difficult after all 

No time to do my own entry today. Got baby duties and work backlog! I might drop my bpm to 100 to make it easier too


----------



## pipkiksass (Jun 11, 2013)

mark49152 said:


> "Race to bpm" does make it more like other races, although it changes the game somewhat. Deriving bpm from ao100 basically gives a "lookahead score" independent of how fast you are. As a 35s solver I might be smoother than an 18s solver, albeit at half the pace. So there would be no "race to 157bpm", just a single "race to perfect smoothness"



Yeah, I understand the concept, but I think it will be very hard in terms of administration. Also, I can probably already achieve perfect smoothness... but only at 60bpm! If the race is to perfection, then time/speed/bpm would need to be taken into account in some way in scoring - assuming that someone like Feliks/Mats has 'perfect' lookahead.



mark49152 said:


> I like the rounding idea and that would have some lumping-together effect anyway, for those who are interested in racing others at the same bpm level.



I'm not interested in racing others, I'm looking to push _myself_. Personally, I'd start at 120bpm and 'compete' until I can get perfect scores every time, then race at the next speed until I'm perfect, and so on. I'm not really interested in others' scores in relation to mine, although watching others progress in the race to 30/25 threads really helped me motivate myself to improve. Just my 2 cents.


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## KongShou (Jun 11, 2013)

Tbh guys I don't think you need to worry about look ahead or smoothness until you are trying to sub 20. Even sub 20 don't need look ahead.


----------



## pipkiksass (Jun 11, 2013)

KongShou said:


> Tbh guys I don't think you need to worry about look ahead or smoothness until you are trying to sub 20. Even sub 20 don't need look ahead.



But I AM trying to be sub 20! In an Ao100 I normally have a couple of 21 Ao12's - maybe a dozen or so sub-20's. Last Ao50 had 8 of them, a 16, a 17, a couple of 18s, the rest 19s. I think, to be more consistently sub-20, lookahead is my number one thing to work on. Sometimes I start OLL and glance at the clock and it says 12s, sometimes nearly 20s. My LL is pretty standard - not very fast, but it doesn't matter if I'm coming out of F2L at 20s, no matter how much I drill my algs I won't be sub 20! It's the inconsistency at cross/F2L that's killing my times. I honestly think if I could be a little smoother in F2L I'd be sub-20 tomorrow.

Anyhoo, I'm off to fire up the 'nome (I've decided (just now) that I should invent a pet name for my metronome) and crack on with some good ol' fashioned slow turning practice. 

To heck (self-censorship) with the race, I'm just going to set my metronome at 120 and solve until I never miss a beat, then up the pace, then up the pace, then up the pace... then break the WR.


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## mark49152 (Jun 11, 2013)

pipkiksass said:


> I'm not interested in racing others, I'm looking to push _myself_. Personally, I'd start at 120bpm and 'compete' until I can get perfect scores every time, then race at the next speed until I'm perfect, and so on. I'm not really interested in others' scores in relation to mine, although watching others progress in the race to 30/25 threads really helped me motivate myself to improve. Just my 2 cents.


Yep same here. I like having the comp as a checkpoint each week and seeing my progress up the table (hopefully).



KongShou said:


> Tbh guys I don't think you need to worry about look ahead or smoothness until you are trying to sub 20. Even sub 20 don't need look ahead.


Disagree with this. Everyone's different. My fingers are old and rusty and don't speed up easily, and so eliminating the pauses in my solves looks like an easier win to me. Rather than get from 35 to 20 on speed and then 20 to 15 on lookahead, I'd rather get from 35 to 25 on lookahead and then increase my finger speed once I'm smooth - and I'll also have a lot more lookahead practice under my belt.


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## sneaklyfox (Jun 12, 2013)

KongShou said:


> Tbh guys I don't think you need to worry about look ahead or smoothness until you are trying to sub 20. Even sub 20 don't need look ahead.



Sorry but I absolutely disagree with this. It's true that you don't need any look ahead to get sub-20, but you can't get far without look ahead. The longer you wait to start developing that important skill the more bad habits you will be practicing and then those who are just moving as fast as possible with the huge pauses will then have to unlearn what they have learned. They will have to go back to the basics of look ahead before they can move forward again... an often painful process.

Edit: @mark49152, the ultimate smooth solve sounds like a very cool race to start. And you would be able to graduate to the next level. The way some of the races are done now is 3x in a row sub-X time to graduate. Maybe you could have 3x in a row sub-X missed beats in order to graduate.


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## mark49152 (Jun 12, 2013)

You know you've had enough when you can still hear the ticking long after you've switched the metronome off. And when you find yourself chewing your food at exactly 110bpm.... :O


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## sneaklyfox (Jun 12, 2013)

mark49152 said:


> You know you've had enough when you can still hear the ticking long after you've switched the metronome off. And when you find yourself chewing your food at exactly 110bpm.... :O



LOL!

I like the idea of a "race" for smooth and constant turning. I don't know if I can get over the metronome itself though because the constant clicking noise is rather irritating and I hate metronome practice.


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## pipkiksass (Jun 12, 2013)

mark49152 said:


> You know you've had enough when you can still hear the ticking long after you've switched the metronome off. And when you find yourself chewing your food at exactly 110bpm.... :O



Does swallowing insufficiently chewed food constitute a DNF?


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## MarcelP (Jun 13, 2013)

mark49152 said:


> *@MarcelP: *Looking good  Its interesting that apart from the first two, your scores and times are roughly correlated - faster solves had better lookahead scores. Was this at 120bpm? In your video, I noticed again that you're doing multiple moves per beat, like R'U or RUR' on one beat. The point is that by slowing down and doing one move per beat you give yourself more time to look ahead, and that 138bpm might not be so difficult after all
> 
> No time to do my own entry today. Got baby duties and work backlog! I might drop my bpm to 100 to make it easier too



I have practiced some more and I indeed seem to do that a lot. But it's getting better. In fact, I can get easily sub 30's with 100Bmm. How cool is that:
[video=youtube_share;sCI0RV0Xdl0]http://youtu.be/sCI0RV0Xdl0[/video]

And practice is paying of. I am getting some good averages (at full speed) now and then. I filmed two sub 24 Ao5. Here is one of them:



Spoiler



Whooohoo! Nice one..

39. 28.72 L2 U R2 L2 D' L2 D R2 U L2 U' B' R D U B2 F2 R D2 R' D2
40. 23.84 D B2 U' F2 U' R2 D L2 F2 U2 B D R U F D2 B2 L' D L2 D2
41. 23.54 D U' L2 F2 U2 L2 B2 D B2 L2 U R' B F' R' F2 R' U2 L2 F D U'
42. 21.90 U F2 U2 L2 D L2 D' B2 U' R2 U L' F' D U2 R2 D B R' B D
43. 20.94 B2 D R2 U B2 U2 F2 R2 B2 L2 B' R L2 F2 U' L' D' F2 U' R' D2


http://youtu.be/kQXhe_vV36k


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## sneaklyfox (Jun 14, 2013)

Marcel! You are so lucky! I just read on the WeiLong thread that you were one of the testers selected to try out the new cube. Ooh, I envy you. Can't wait to hear from you how you like it!


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## MarcelP (Jun 14, 2013)

sneaklyfox said:


> Marcel! You are so lucky! I just read on the WeiLong thread that you were one of the testers selected to try out the new cube. Ooh, I envy you. Can't wait to hear from you how you like it!



Yes, I feel so lucky. I never win anything. LOL I allready ordered a black one with keeping in mind I might kept selected and receiving a white one. It must be really an honoust random selection process since why would I get one.. LOL I will make a true professional review video on the day I receive it.


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## MarcelP (Jun 14, 2013)

sneaklyfox said:


> Marcel! You are so lucky! I just read on the WeiLong thread that you were one of the testers selected to try out the new cube. Ooh, I envy you. Can't wait to hear from you how you like it!



Yes, I feel so lucky. I never win anything. LOL I allready ordered a black one with keeping in mind I might kept selected and receiving a white one. It must be really an honoust random selection process since why would I get one.. LOL I will make a true professional review video on the day I receive it.


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## sneaklyfox (Jun 14, 2013)

MarcelP said:


> Yes, I feel so lucky. I never win anything. LOL I allready ordered a black one with keeping in mind I might kept selected and receiving a white one. It must be really an honoust random selection process since why would I get one.. LOL I will make a true professional review video on the day I receive it.



Looking forward to your review. If you feel you have too many, send me one.


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## mark49152 (Jun 16, 2013)

sneaklyfox said:


> I like the idea of a "race" for smooth and constant turning. I don't know if I can get over the metronome itself though because the constant clicking noise is rather irritating and I hate metronome practice.


Yeah I'm demotivated regarding the metronome race at the moment because it's just so hard. I have come down to 90bpm and am still struggling not to miss a beat for at least half the pairs. Still haven't written down my own scores  I'm persevering with metronome because the fact it's difficult means it must surely help me in some way to work at it. Just did a PB ao50 of 34.10 and I'm pretty sure the improvement there was due to better lookahead in F2L.



pipkiksass said:


> Does swallowing insufficiently chewed food constitute a DNF?


Dunno, but I'm glad I'm not a 240bpm solver like Sneakly


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## MarcelP (Jun 16, 2013)

mark49152 said:


> I'm persevering with metronome because the fact it's difficult means it must surely help me in some way to work at it. Just did a PB ao50 of 34.10



Nice going there Mark!! I am also pretty sure metronome practice helps a lot. I did quite a lot last week and it improved my averages. But I stopped 4 - 5 days ago due to lack to time and my averages are again some what slower.. So I will putting in some more metronome time next week.

EDIT: Oh and I agree, that is too difficult for a race. I don't think there will be a lot of entries.


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## sneaklyfox (Jun 17, 2013)

mark49152 said:


> Yeah I'm demotivated regarding the metronome race at the moment because it's just so hard. I have come down to 90bpm and am still struggling not to miss a beat for at least half the pairs. Still haven't written down my own scores  I'm persevering with metronome because the fact it's difficult means it must surely help me in some way to work at it. Just did a PB ao50 of 34.10 and I'm pretty sure the improvement there was due to better lookahead in F2L.


Perseverence is key. Good for you... persevering with metronome practice. It does work for some people. I tried some myself when I was struggling with 60-80bpm without missing beats. Well, I have never liked the metronome, even in music though fortunately I don't have a problem keeping a steady beat... I just hate working with the thing... except I'm always telling my students to turn them on lol. Does that count as being hypocritical?



mark49152 said:


> Dunno, but I'm glad I'm not a 240bpm solver like Sneakly


I'm pretty sure I can't do 240bpm without missing beats. Regarding insufficiently chewed food, I probably eat very quickly in general and swallow too quickly. It's a bad habit I guess but since I'm used to it, it's not that bad... and it can be a useful thing when I spend most of mealtimes feeding everybody else in my family...


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## MarcelP (Jun 17, 2013)

sneaklyfox said:


> persevering with metronome practice. It does work for some people.



I am a bit in doubt if it really works for me. You have proved us by showing a video with slow a turning Ao5 you can get sub 16. That is awesome.. But if I turn slow I can look ahead better but it does not really help my times. If I turn real fast (which is not really that fast after all) I can still handle lookahead. So when turn fast I rarely hit sup 30. At slow turning I have many sup 30 solves. At turning fast 99% of my solves are sub 28. I will commit to some slow metronome practice this week and see what happens with my averages.


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## sneaklyfox (Jun 17, 2013)

MarcelP said:


> I am a bit in doubt if it really works for me. You have proved us by showing a video with slow a turning Ao5 you can get sub 16. That is awesome.. But if I turn slow I can look ahead better but it does not really help my times. If I turn real fast (which is not really that fast after all) I can still handle lookahead. So when turn fast I rarely hit sup 30. At slow turning I have many sup 30 solves. At turning fast 99% of my solves are sub 28. I will commit to some slow metronome practice this week and see what happens with my averages.



I'm sure the slow turning can work for you too. You just have to persevere with the slow turning and train that look ahead. If you can turn as fast as I did in the video then look ahead is the issue. From personal experience, the problem you mention is one I have to deal with at all stages. If I turn slower, my look ahead improves but I am slower. If I turn faster my look ahead is not as good... still "ok" but then I am generally faster. Maybe for fast turning you can train your fingers on PLLs. For F2L do more slow turning practice. Honestly, sometimes I don't know how I get past a barrier. I just keep working at it, sometimes fast, sometimes slow... suddenly something must click and I know I am improving again.


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## MarcelP (Jun 17, 2013)

sneaklyfox said:


> I'm sure the slow turning can work for you too. You just have to persevere with the slow turning and train that look ahead. If you can turn as fast as I did in the video then look ahead is the issue.



As always you are very right. And I really need work on drilling OLL's and PLL's. I have another fun game in mind. You have to film a solve. You must take a scramble given by the organiser of the game. You can (and must) prepare the solve. So you solve it many times from different angles (or different cross colors) and find the best solution for you. Then you start working on speed. Repeat the solve as many times as possible in order to get your best time ever... Of course this time can not be used as a PB for speedsolving, but at least it can show you your 'finger' speed. Why? 1) This is just fun 2) learn to find better solutions. 3) Drilling the solve over and over might help you doing faster LL. The idea of this came to me when the 4 seconds fake solve in Mexico came a fast person got a sub 5 seconds solve on the scramble after repeating it hundreds of times. 

Anyone up for this game?


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## Username (Jun 17, 2013)

MarcelP said:


> As always you are very right. And I really need work on drilling OLL's and PLL's. I have another fun game in mind. You have to film a solve. You must take a scramble given by the organiser of the game. You can (and must) prepare the solve. So you solve it many times from different angles (or different cross colors) and find the best solution for you. Then you start working on speed. Repeat the solve as many times as possible in order to get your best time ever... Of course this time can not be used as a PB for speedsolving, but at least it can show you your 'finger' speed. Why? 1) This is just fun 2) learn to find better solutions. 3) Drilling the solve over and over might help you doing faster LL. The idea of this came to me when the 4 seconds fake solve in Mexico came a fast person got a sub 5 seconds solve on the scramble after repeating it hundreds of times.
> 
> Anyone up for this game?



Me

I'm also one of them that slow solving doesn't work for. I'm sub 15 without any slow solving at all. I feel to have better lookahead with fast turning than slow turning, but my F2L is still really slow.

E:

I did a practice attempt, and I'm already able to get 8.xy times easily after 5 attempts

L2 F2 D2 U' B2 D' U2 F2 L2 U2 R2 B' F' L' U' R' F' U B2 F2 R

x2 y
R' B' R2 U F' L U' L
R' U' R
U y' L' U' L y' U R' U' R
U' R U' R U' L U L'
R U R' U R U R'
F R U R' U' F'
U' R' U' R U' R' U2 R U2
PLLSKIP

I didn't search for anything else yet, maybe I should


E2: got 6.82 on that solution


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## mark49152 (Jun 17, 2013)

sneaklyfox said:


> Well, I have never liked the metronome, even in music though fortunately I don't have a problem keeping a steady beat... I just hate working with the thing... except I'm always telling my students to turn them on lol. Does that count as being hypocritical?


Stating the obvious, you don't have to like something for it to be good for you . I don't particularly enjoy metronome practice, I'm just annoyed that I'm no good at it, so force myself.



MarcelP said:


> But if I turn slow I can look ahead better but it does not really help my times. If I turn real fast (which is not really that fast after all) I can still handle lookahead. So when turn fast I rarely hit sup 30. At slow turning I have many sup 30 solves. At turning fast 99% of my solves are sub 28.


The key is to slow down just enough that you can eliminate pauses, but no more. If you slow down but still pause, that's not going to help. It's easy to work out how slow is too slow - aim for 4000/ao50 . If that tells you 138bpm then it means if you slow smooth solve F2L slower than 138bpm your times will get worse, whether you pause or not, and whether you have the metronome on or not.

Another thing I tried was doing long sessions of random turns at my target bpm to get a feel for the pace and rhythm. Practising F2L metronome doesn't really give me that because I'm panicking to find pieces and that messes with the rhythm.



MarcelP said:


> Anyone up for this game?


Yeah


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## MarcelP (Jun 17, 2013)

mark49152 said:


> Yeah





Username said:


> Me



Shall I create a new topic in Forum competitons? It will be a weekly thing then. I will write down the (simple) rules and do an example entry.


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## Username (Jun 17, 2013)

MarcelP said:


> Shall I create a new topic in Forum competitons? It will be a weekly thing then. I will write down the (simple) rules and do an example entry.



Sure! You can add my example there if you want to


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## MarcelP (Jun 17, 2013)

Username said:


> E2: got 6.82 on that solution



Nice!! Imagion doing that in a contest 



Username said:


> Sure! You can add my example there if you want to



Ok, I will start a new topic later this week (or mayby today).


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## MarcelP (Jun 17, 2013)

OK, I started the topic here: http://www.speedsolving.com/forum/showthread.php?42514-The-fastest-fingers-competition


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## Username (Jun 17, 2013)

MarcelP said:


> OK, I started the topic here: http://www.speedsolving.com/forum/showthread.php?42514-The-fastest-fingers-competition



First scramble was quite hard 

Got 6.54 on prepared


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## MarcelP (Jun 21, 2013)

I had a few great solves today. My Moyu was doing it's magic again. A 16.11 full step solve...



Spoiler



24. 29.19 B2 R2 U2 L2 D2 B2 L2 U2 L2 U F2 R L D R2 B D2 L2 B' U L
25. 23.83 R2 U' L2 D R2 F2 R2 U L2 D2 F2 L D2 B' L F' L B2 U2 F' L' D'
26. 19.92 U' L2 U2 L2 F2 U' B2 D2 U' F2 U2 B' L F U F D F2 L2 D2 R'
27. 16.11 B2 R2 B2 L2 F2 L2 U R2 U2 B2 D' L' B2 U R D2 L' F' D' R2 U
28. 25.37 D' L2 U' R2 F2 R2 B2 U B2 U2 R L F' U L B2 L D F'


[video=youtube_share;E41xovQiwek]http://youtu.be/E41xovQiwek[/video]


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## Schmidt (Jun 21, 2013)

Close up of Marcel's face





Just for fun. Tell me if you want it removed.


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## Username (Jun 21, 2013)

Marcel, better update your signature with that full step 16 

Also, at what time are you going to post results of the fastest fingers comp? I really want a new round lol


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## MarcelP (Jun 21, 2013)

Schmidt said:


> Close up of Marcel's face
> 
> 
> Just for fun. Tell me if you want it removed.



LOL, nah, that's good stuff.. You can see the speed in my face.. ha ha ha



Username said:


> Marcel, better update your signature with that full step 16
> 
> Also, at what time are you going to post results of the fastest fingers comp? I really want a new round lol



Thanks, I did not realise I broke a PB (ON VIDEO!!) will update immediatly. Also, I will post a new scramble in a few minutes. And compile results later.


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## sneaklyfox (Jun 21, 2013)

16.11... way to go! On video too! I liked your reaction.


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## ben1996123 (Jun 21, 2013)

MarcelP said:


> Thanks, I did not realise I broke a PB (ON VIDEO!!) will update immediatly. Also, I will post a new scramble in a few minutes. And compile results later.



but it was an oll skip


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## MarcelP (Jun 21, 2013)

ben1996123 said:


> but it was an oll skip



Ah.. I checked it again and you are right...  So not so much a full step.. Still for me incredibly fast.


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## ben1996123 (Jun 21, 2013)

MarcelP said:


> Ah.. I checked it again and you are right...  So not so much a full step.. Still for me incredibly fast.



soyeah you shold change your signature back


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## BenVdd (Jun 21, 2013)

soyeah maybe lighten up and mind your own business


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## ben1996123 (Jun 21, 2013)

BenVdd said:


> soyeah maybe lighten up and mind your own business



why donut you

LOL !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Lchu613 (Jun 22, 2013)

because donuts are awesome

You did that on purpose didn't you ben

Nice solve btw Marcel, I swear you're going to catch up to me with that Moyu


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## YddEd (Jun 22, 2013)

BenVdd said:


> soyeah maybe lighten up and mind your own business


soyeah maybe you should mind your own business, if it's an OLL skip it counts as a lucky. Not fullstep.


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## BenVdd (Jun 22, 2013)

ben1996123 said:


> why donut you
> 
> LOL !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



I'd love to donut actually!


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## ben1996123 (Jun 22, 2013)

BenVdd said:


> I'd love to donut actually!



ok go and donut then .


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## Lchu613 (Jul 1, 2013)

Why'd you get banned Ben?


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## sneaklyfox (Jul 1, 2013)

Marcel, are you going to use Moyu Weilong as your main?


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## ben1996123 (Jul 1, 2013)

Lchu613 said:


> Why'd you get banned Ben?



csch i posted my womackbanner


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## MarcelP (Jul 1, 2013)

sneaklyfox said:


> Marcel, are you going to use Moyu Weilong as your main?


Yes, for now it is my main. Still, I get better times with my Shuangren. I think it takes some time to get adjusted to the speed of this cube.


ben1996123 said:


> csch i posted my womackbanner


That was not cool. My days of getting into internet arguments are over, but I really felt sorry for Micheal. I had to refrain myself from posting in that topic 'stop bullying this guy you f#ckrs'


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## lcsbiffi (Jul 1, 2013)

Yeah, show 'em Marcel lol


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## YddEd (Jul 1, 2013)

MarcelP said:


> Double post.. please delete.


You can delete it your own posts


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## MarcelP (Jul 1, 2013)

Thanks, I did not know that.


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## Lchu613 (Jul 2, 2013)

Yeah the Womackhate is a bit out of control. He's a nice guy, stop giving him that.


----------



## jayefbe (Jul 2, 2013)

Especially since some of those hounding on him are more annoying than he is.


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## MarcelP (Jul 3, 2013)

I did three Ao5 on video with my best cubes. In the Fangshi's defence it's a black cube and I am better in white cubes. 

MoYu HuangYing: *24.26* = 23.26 (33.35) 26.09 *(17.55)* 23.44


Spoiler



1. 23.26 U2 R2 B2 L2 U2 R2 U2 F2 D F2 R2 F' L F2 D U L2 D' R' L U
2. 33.35 L2 D L2 U' R2 U B2 L2 D2 R2 U' B U2 L2 D' R U B' F' L' U B2
3. 26.09 F2 L2 B2 U L2 U' B2 D2 R2 L2 D' R' B' L F2 U' R' B2 F' U2 F2
4. 17.55 U' B2 R2 U F2 L2 U L2 D2 R2 U L U' F D L B F L B2 D U'
5. 23.44 B2 R2 U F2 U' L2 D R2 D2 B2 R U' R2 L F L D2 F2 L' D' U2


[video=youtube_share;ZFLsxIMcuW0]http://youtu.be/ZFLsxIMcuW0[/video]

MoYu Weilong: *24.80* = 25.59 (23.29) 24.66 (34.86) 24.16



Spoiler



1. 25.59 B2 F2 L2 D B2 D B2 D2 F2 L2 D2 R D F D L D R2 U2
2. 23.29 R2 U2 F2 R2 B2 U' L2 F2 D2 F2 L B R2 F' D L B U L' F' U2
3. 24.66 D' F2 U' B2 D' R2 D2 U' F2 U B2 R' B' U2 R2 L D2 B2 R2 U' B' R
4. 34.86 R2 U F2 D B2 F2 D2 R2 B2 F2 U' L' F2 U' R B' F' U2 L' D2 U'
5. 24.16 R2 F2 D2 B2 U2 L2 F2 R2 D F2 U R B R2 L' F U' R' B2 R F U'


http://youtu.be/0EzWh5hNL5s

Fangshi ShuangRen: *25.72* = 25.96 (25.08) (26.28) 25.91 25.30


Spoiler



1. 25.96 B2 F2 D U R2 B2 U2 B2 U L2 F' U R' U' R L B' R2 L' B2
2. 25.08 U F2 R2 D' U2 L2 U F2 U' L2 U' B L U' L U2 R' D2 B' D' L' U'
3. 26.28 R2 U2 R2 L2 U2 F2 U' R2 D R2 D2 F' D2 R D' L2 U2 L' F U' F
4. 25.91 U L2 U L2 U' R2 U R2 U' L' B2 R2 B R F' D L F2 R D'
5. 25.30 U2 L2 F2 U' F2 R2 D U' R2 B2 U L' U' L2 F2 R U F' L' B' D2


http://youtu.be/T5Vg4h3XPbA


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## Schmidt (Jul 5, 2013)

This is more than 3 months old now. Have you failed / not failed or should we decide with a fresh ao100 (I have time next week)?


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## MarcelP (Jul 6, 2013)

Schmidt said:


> This is more than 3 months old now. Have you failed / not failed or should we decide with a fresh ao100 (I have time next week)?



A few days ago I was thinking about that. I have gained some speed. But most certainly not reached the goal I was hoping for. I average around 26 - 27 now. I was hoping to get closer to your times. Not the PB's you had at that time, but the times that you where posting in forum competitions around that time. You where around 22- 24. Still that is a bit to fast for me. I have occasional sub 24 Ao5's. But these are not common. LOL... Yes, let's do an Ao100. I might get around doing that this weekend.


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## MarcelP (Jul 6, 2013)

Yeah, I average around 26 

With the whole *Weilong is illegal*, I swicthed back to Fangshi ShuangRen. I have a great white one now. I used pink on the Orange face. It 's seems to improve my look ahead. I think I will be ordering a bunch of pinks at Cubesmith to replace my other cubes.


Best average of 5: 23.51
5-9 - 25.44 22.66 22.42 (18.97) (30.68)

Best average of 12: 26.42
1-12 - 23.71 25.47 30.59 (34.32) 25.44 22.66 22.42 (18.97) 30.68 27.93 28.06 27.20

EDIT: it appears I am singing, so better watch without sound 


Spoiler



1. 23.71 L2 U F2 L2 D' B2 F2 D2 F2 U2 B' R F2 R D2 R' B' F' D U'
2. 25.47 F2 D' L2 B2 U B2 F2 U2 B2 D F2 R U2 F U R2 D' F' U F2 L2 U'
3. 30.59 L2 F2 U L2 U L2 D' L2 U F2 U B' D' R2 L' U2 B' R' D B' F2 D2
4. 34.32 F2 D2 B2 D' U2 R2 F2 D' B2 L2 B2 R F' R' B2 F L' D' U' L F U
5. 25.44 U R2 U R2 B2 F2 U' L2 D2 F' R' F2 D U2 R2 B' D R' U'
6. 22.66 L2 U' F2 D F2 L2 B2 U' B2 U2 L2 F' U R' B D L2 B D' B L'
7. 22.42 F2 D' R2 F2 U' F2 D U2 F2 R2 U' R B' L2 D R U' L' B2 U' L U
8. 18.97 U' B2 D' L2 D' B2 F2 R2 U' F2 U' L U' L2 F' R2 U' B2 D2 L2 F'
9. 30.68 U2 R2 L2 U' R2 U L2 U F2 L2 D2 L' F' D B' F' U2 L' F2 U B U'
10. 27.93 R2 L2 D' F2 U R2 L2 F2 U' R2 D' B' R' F2 D' B F' R U L' B2
11. 28.06 U F2 U L2 D2 L2 B2 R2 U B2 D F D' F' R2 B R L' U' F D2
12. 27.20 B2 F2 D B2 L2 U' R2 D F2 U2 R2 F' U' F R' F2 L U B' U L2 D'


[video=youtube_share;cIC5fvttH_o]http://youtu.be/cIC5fvttH_o[/video]


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## YddEd (Jul 6, 2013)

First solve: A few pauses (a 2 second pause and a 3 second pause), still sub 25 :O lol nice.


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## MarcelP (Jul 6, 2013)

YddEd said:


> First solve: A few pauses (a 2 second pause and a 3 second pause), still sub 25 :O lol nice.


Thanks  Yeah, nice one.. There is a 28 in the last solves where I had to fix an error.. Still sub 29.


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## Schmidt (Jul 6, 2013)

We could do a TTW "Battle of the Ancients" ao50


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## Username (Jul 6, 2013)

Schmidt said:


> We could do a TTW "Battle of the Ancients" ao50



I'd watch it  Just tell me when it is


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## YddEd (Jul 6, 2013)

Schmidt said:


> We could do a TTW "Battle of the Ancients" ao50


Yes. This.


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## mark49152 (Jul 6, 2013)

Schmidt said:


> We could do a TTW "Battle of the Ancients" ao50


Count me in! What's the age threshold for "ancient"?


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## Schmidt (Jul 6, 2013)

Sup 40


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## MarcelP (Jul 6, 2013)

I am in..  Gordon is not 40 yet but he is pretty ancient too..


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## Schmidt (Jul 6, 2013)

Username said:


> I'd watch it  Just tell me when it is



We avg. ~25. Still interested?


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## mark49152 (Jul 6, 2013)

Schmidt said:


> Sup 40


I qualify easily


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## sneaklyfox (Jul 6, 2013)

Schmidt said:


> Sup 40



Aww... that means I can't join for another 8 years??


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## Username (Jul 6, 2013)

Schmidt said:


> We avg. ~25. Still interested?



Yes


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## MarcelP (Jul 6, 2013)

sneaklyfox said:


> Aww... that means I can't join for another 8 years??



People who have official sub 14 solves can't join no matter how old.. LOL..


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## Gordon (Jul 6, 2013)

Schmidt said:


> Sup 40



Sry. Too young. 

Man that feels good to tell that. I think I couldn't tell that for at least ten years


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## sneaklyfox (Jul 7, 2013)

MarcelP said:


> People who have official sub 14 solves can't join no matter how old.. LOL..



Discrimination!!

But I'm not there. Hey, I wonder how fast Feliks would be when he's 60 years old?


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## MarcelP (Jul 7, 2013)

I think you can get faster up until about 50 years or so. After that it will be so hard to get faster. Your brain will get slower, hand will get slower. But as in many things it probably depends on the individual. Some will live to be hundred years old. These are maybe also the people who can progress up until a very old age.


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## MarcelP (Jul 7, 2013)

Okay, here is my Ao50:



Spoiler



Best average of 5: 25.03
20-24 - 24.67 25.11 (17.65) (27.50) 25.31

Best average of 12: 25.85
19-30 - 28.20 24.67 25.11 (17.65) 27.50 25.31 25.23 25.70 25.82 24.21 (32.31) 26.73

1. 28.96 R2 L2 D' B2 D' F2 L2 D L2 B2 D2 B' L2 F U B F' D' R B U'
2. 25.21 D B2 L2 D' F2 U2 F2 D' F2 L2 U' R' U2 L F U' B F2 D' R' D2 L'
3. 26.57 U' L2 U' F2 L2 D2 B2 D B2 L2 U' R U F' R2 U R2 B F U R U'
4. 27.57 U2 R2 B2 R2 B2 U F2 L2 U' F2 U' R B2 R' L' B U R L2 D2
5. 26.68 B2 D' B2 U R2 F2 L2 D' F2 D U2 R' F' L U' F L D2 F2 R F' D'
6. 25.25 D2 B2 R2 L2 U R2 L2 D' U2 F2 L' F R2 B' D L' D2 U' L F' U2
7. 23.40 B2 F2 D2 F2 U R2 U L2 D' B2 U L' F R' L2 F' U F2 L U2 F U'
8. 27.17 R2 B2 U' R2 U' L2 D' U2 R2 U' F U R F D B D2 U' B D'
9. 30.03 D2 F2 U L2 D' L2 D' F2 U2 F2 D' L D2 L2 B D F R U' F2 D'
10. 28.06 F2 U2 B2 L2 D2 R2 D R2 U2 F2 L F2 L' B2 U L2 F' R' F' L' D'
11. 29.31 D' R2 D' R2 B2 D' B2 F2 D' R2 D B R' D' B2 D U' B2 R' F D2 U2
12. 28.39 R2 F2 L2 D2 U' R2 D2 R2 U' L2 U2 R' F' U' R B2 L U' R2 L2 B' U
13. 27.96 B2 D R2 U R2 U' L2 B2 U' R2 D F D B2 F R' B R2 D F D2
14. 26.89 R2 U' R2 U' L2 D F2 R2 U' B2 U2 F U F' L' B' U2 R' D F' U2
15. 25.62 D2 F2 R2 U' B2 U F2 U2 L2 U' F2 L D R2 L' U2 R' B U F U
16. 27.82 B2 F2 D' L2 D U2 F2 U R2 F2 L' D R' L U2 B U' L U F U2
17. 27.39 B2 D L2 U2 R2 F2 D2 F2 D F2 D F' R' B' R' L' U R B U' F
18. 28.71 F2 L2 U' L2 D' L2 F2 D' F2 R2 F R2 F U' R' D2 F L U' F D2
19. 28.20 D2 B2 U L2 U F2 L2 D' R2 U2 F2 L F' L2 F2 U R' F2 U' B F2 D'
20. 24.67 D' B2 R2 F2 R2 D' L2 U B2 D' L2 F' L B L' B2 F U2 L' D' L2
21. 25.11 D2 F2 L2 B2 D L2 U' R2 U' R2 U' L B' L2 D' B2 F R D F L' U'
*22. 17.65 D' U' B2 D R2 B2 L2 D2 B2 F2 D' R' U' B' R2 B L U B2 U F' U* //Bloody nice one. PLL skip
23. 27.50 R2 U F2 R2 B2 L2 U' F2 R2 L2 B' R' F2 D B' F' R D' R U2
24. 25.31 D2 R2 U' R2 D R2 D R2 U2 B2 U' R' U F' L2 U' B' F2 D U' F D2
25. 25.23 R2 D' R2 D2 F2 U' R2 B2 D R2 U2 R' U B D L' B' F D L F'
26. 25.70 D2 U B2 U R2 U' R2 B2 F2 L2 B' R' U B D' B' R' B U2 L U
27. 25.82 F2 L2 U' L2 B2 R2 U L2 U' L2 B2 R L' F L B2 L2 U2 B U' L2 D2
28. 24.21 F2 D' B2 R2 U B2 U F2 U' B2 R2 B D2 L' D' F' U' R' U' R B' U'
29. 32.31 B2 F2 U F2 L2 F2 L2 D2 B2 D L B D' B2 L' B R F2 U2 F' U'
30. 26.73 U' B2 U F2 D2 B2 D' F2 R2 F2 U L D B' R D2 L F L2 U R L'
31. 28.31 U' L2 D2 F2 U' R2 U2 F2 U R2 F' L' D R' L U2 B' R' L B2 L' U2
32. 26.42 D' R2 D' U2 F2 L2 D' L2 F2 L2 U L U2 F' U' B' L' U B2 U F L2
33. 36.71 D' B2 U2 L2 U R2 B2 L2 D' R2 F' D L' B D2 B2 L' D' F2 L2
34. 32.15 D F2 U2 R2 B2 F2 U F2 U' F2 D' R' L D' B' R' D' U B2 R B'
35. 22.93 R2 U2 R2 U F2 L2 U2 R2 U' F L2 D U2 L D F R' D U'
36. 29.67 U2 B2 U F2 U B2 D2 L2 U B' R' D2 F2 D R U L' F U' F
37. 23.61 D2 R2 U L2 U F2 D' L2 D L2 U R F D' F U R F R2 U2 F D'
38. 29.59 U L2 D' F2 L2 F2 L2 U' B2 D' U' R' D2 F2 U F' U2 B L D L'
39. 24.95 D2 B2 U R2 D2 L2 U L2 U2 L2 D' R' U' F' L2 U2 L2 U L D' R2 U
40. 29.67 U2 B2 F2 D R2 D' L2 U R2 L2 U R' L2 U2 F D2 L' D' L' B2 R'
41. 27.46 B2 U' L2 U' B2 D' F2 D2 B2 R' F' L U' F' R' D2 F2 D
42. 22.20 D2 L2 U' L2 D L2 D L2 B2 U2 F' L' B' R' D U L' D' R2 U2
43. 29.78 L2 D' U' L2 B2 L2 U' B2 F2 L2 U' F' R U2 L F' U2 F2 U' R D
44. 24.09 L2 B2 R2 D' L2 D B2 L2 D R2 F2 L D R2 D2 B D2 F2 L' U' L
45. 28.93 U F2 D' R2 L2 U' B2 L2 B2 R2 U L B R2 D2 L2 U2 R D R' U2
46. 24.57 D' F2 L2 F2 L2 D R2 U' R2 F2 D F D2 F R B L' D2 B2 F
47. 27.98 F2 L2 D F2 L2 D2 F2 U' R2 D' L D' R2 B' U' L2 D R2 L D
48. 29.76 D2 B2 R2 B2 D' F2 D' R2 D' U' B2 R B2 D' R2 B U R2 L B' U' L2
49. 22.51 D F2 U2 B2 U2 F2 L2 B2 U L2 U' B R' L U B2 F' U F2 L2 F' D2
50. 25.04 F2 U' B2 D L2 D' F2 R2 F2 D L2 F L' B' L' F' R' L2 D' R D'


I was counting on much better results. Especially since I did not even had a sub 25 Ao5 in there.. But all in all, I am cool with 26 average


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## mark49152 (Jul 7, 2013)

In proper ancient style, I can't enter this weekend due to my aging decrepit hurt hand. My last ao50 was on June 30 and was 33.93, a PB. Only 7 seconds behind Marcel - I didn't realise I was gaining on him so fast


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## MarcelP (Jul 7, 2013)

mark49152 said:


> In proper ancient style, I can't enter this weekend due to my aging decrepit hurt hand. My last ao50 was on June 30 and was 33.93, a PB. Only 7 seconds behind Marcel - I didn't realise I was gaining on him so fast



Yeah, you are going great. But remember that I have been doing Ao100 26 secs. for many months now.. LOL In fact, I did this Ao50 in March:





Once you get sub 30, that progress is not going so fast anymore. Just like I thought I could get averaging 23 - 24 in a few months.. For me that is not going to happen soon.  Well at least not the way I am practicing now.


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## mark49152 (Jul 7, 2013)

I'm jesting of course  My times are not improving that fast. In the 2 weeks over Christmas and New Year i improved from 65 to 50. Then at the end of March posted an ao50 of around 38, and end of April 36. Now over 2 months later I'm at 34, and asymptotically converging on a potential of 32-33 seconds. That's despite efforts to change my practice regimen to try to break through the plateau.


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## kunparekh18 (Jul 7, 2013)

I was stuck at the 22 second barrier for almost 2 mths :fp it really becomes harder to improve as you get faster.


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## Schmidt (Jul 7, 2013)

Spoiler: ao50



Rubik's cube
07-07-2013 16:27:56 - 17:18:36


Mean: 22.84
Average: 22.81
Best time: 15.72
Median: 22.95
Worst time: 31.45
Standard deviation: 3.52


Best average of 5: 21.11
46-50 - 21.66 (26.97) (18.91) 21.70 19.98


Best average of 12: 21.70
8-19 - 18.91 20.69 (31.45) 25.49 18.57 (15.72) 20.97 24.69 24.68 25.67 19.84 17.45


1. 22.47 U L2 B2 R2 B2 D' L2 F2 D2 R2 U B' R' U2 R' D' B2 D L2 B2 F2
2. 21.12 B2 R2 U F2 L2 D' F2 D' F2 R2 D2 B' U L U2 B' U' R' U2 B D2 U2
3. 25.66 B2 R2 D' R2 U2 L2 U' F2 L2 U' F2 L F' U' R' B2 R2 B' F2 D2 R
4. 21.98 B2 D2 L2 U' F2 U L2 D' F2 D' U2 L F D U2 B' F2 L' D2 R' F2
5. 19.30 D2 F2 R2 U F2 D L2 U2 B2 U' R2 F R2 U' L D R2 D L2 D' L' U'
6. 25.48 R2 L2 U B2 U2 L2 D2 R2 F2 R2 B' U2 R' D' U B R' D' U2 R2 D2
7. 24.87 L2 F2 L2 U' R2 D U2 B2 D2 R2 B2 R' B U F2 R2 F2 R2 U' L2 F' U2
8. 18.91 F2 D' U2 B2 L2 U2 L2 D' L2 U F2 L' B2 F2 D L' U' F U2 B' D2 U'
9. 20.69 B2 F2 L2 U' B2 D' F2 D U2 B2 D' R F2 U F' L U' L2 F D' R
10. 31.45 U2 L2 U2 R2 D' F2 D U R' B' L' B D R' B R' D' R' U2
11. 25.49 B2 F2 R2 B2 D F2 D F2 L2 D2 U B L2 U' R F' D B' D2 L' B'
12. 18.57 R2 D2 L2 F2 U F2 D2 F2 U2 B' R' D L' U' B' R2 U R' F' U
13. 15.72 B2 U2 B2 U L2 D2 B2 R2 F2 L2 D' B' U2 L2 F2 R B' R2 U2 L2 U2
14. 20.97 U' B2 D' B2 R2 D B2 U F2 D U B U2 R L2 D U2 R F' R2 D U2
15. 24.69 F2 U B2 U2 B2 L2 U B2 U2 R2 U' R' L2 D R2 L' D2 B' U L U'
16. 24.68 B2 R2 U2 L2 F2 U2 F2 D B2 U' F2 R' U' R F2 L' F2 D2 U2 F' L U'
17. 25.67 F2 D2 U' R2 B2 D F2 D L2 B2 U' L' D F L B' D L2 U' B2
18. 19.84 B2 R2 F2 L2 F2 D' F2 D2 R2 U B' R2 D' U' L' B R2 L' F
19. 17.45 U F2 U L2 U' R2 F2 U L2 D F' R2 U' L2 D U2 R2 F R D' U'
20. 31.05 L2 D U2 R2 F2 U2 L2 B2 D' R2 D F R U F2 R' L2 B' U' R2 U2 L
21. 27.24 D2 L2 D F2 U R2 U2 R2 U' R2 B2 L' B' D B R2 B R B2 L' D U
22. 21.55 D' F2 D F2 L2 D U2 B2 R2 D U' B' D F U' R' B2 D2 U2 L2 B U'
23. 26.13 R2 B2 L2 D2 L2 D' B2 D R2 B2 U' R B' U B U L F' D' L F' U'
24. 27.21 B2 R2 B2 L2 D' F2 R2 L2 D' L2 U2 B' L' F2 L2 F2 R D2 L B' U2
25. 23.48 D2 L2 B2 R2 F2 U2 F2 D' R2 B2 U' B' L D R2 D2 B' R F' D L2 U2
26. 28.44 L2 F2 U2 R2 D' R2 U' L2 U2 B2 U2 B' U' F' D' F2 R B' R'
27. 21.70 B2 U B2 D' B2 F2 D2 R2 L2 F2 U' F L' D2 U R' B2 R' L' D' R' U
28. 24.27 D' B2 U F2 D' B2 L2 D2 R2 U' B D' B' R' L' U2 F D' L2 F2
29. 19.23 D L2 U2 L2 F2 L2 D R2 U B2 R' B' F2 D' R2 B U2 F2 D U2
30. 25.38 B2 D' L2 D R2 U' L2 U2 L2 D B2 R D' F' U R2 F2 D' B U F U'
31. 20.01 R2 B2 U L2 U B2 L2 D' F2 L2 U' F' R2 U2 F2 U2 R B' L' U R L'
32. 20.11 R2 F2 L2 D F2 U L2 D B2 F2 D2 F D2 F2 R' B D' R D' R2 L
33. 23.97 R2 U2 L2 U' R2 L2 D' B2 U R2 D B R2 B2 D' R B' F' D' L F2 U2
34. 25.99 L2 U2 F2 U F2 D' L2 D2 L2 B2 D' L U' F' R2 D' B2 R2 B2 L2
35. 19.26 R2 D2 U B2 U' B2 F2 U' R2 U R2 F' L2 D2 L' B2 L2 B U' R U' R2
36. 22.79 U2 F2 U2 R2 U' B2 U F2 D2 U2 F' D' R2 U' R U' R' B' D2 R' U2
37. 21.48 R2 U2 R2 U' R2 L2 U F2 D' L2 D R D2 F' R B D' L2 B2 U' F U'
38. 16.73 U2 L2 B2 F2 L2 B2 R2 U' F2 D' L' F2 L2 F' L2 B' R2 L2 U L' D'
39. 24.07 U L2 D2 L2 B2 U F2 U2 B2 D' R2 F' L U2 B2 D' R' L F' R2 U2
40. 25.40 U2 R2 B2 L2 U2 L2 U' L2 D' R2 D' F' L' D2 U2 L2 B R' F' R2 L2 U'
41. 24.03 R2 D L2 B2 U L2 U B2 D U' R' B' D' B U2 L' U2 B2 F' D
42. 25.31 D' L2 F2 U2 R2 U F2 L2 D' R2 D2 L D R B U F' L D2 R F
43. 15.97 D B2 R2 U' F2 D L2 B2 R2 L2 D' F D' F' R' U R L D2 R L2
44. 24.01 U R2 F2 D' F2 U' L2 U' B2 F2 D2 R L F' U' R B2 D' B' D2 L
45. 23.11 D F2 D R2 D B2 U2 L2 D2 L2 U' L' F R' B R' B' F L2 D' L U2
46. 21.66 D2 F2 U' F2 R2 U' R2 U' B2 R2 U' F R L' B' D' R' F' D' B L
47. 26.97 F2 L2 D L2 D B2 U2 R2 B2 D R2 F' D2 R' D U' R' B2 R2 F' R' U
48. 18.91 U' B2 D R2 U2 L2 D F2 U R2 U F U' R D2 B R' D' B2 U L' U2
49. 21.70 L2 B2 D' L2 U B2 D F2 U2 B2 U' B L' B2 R D' B2 F R B' D U'
50. 19.98 D L2 F2 D B2 U L2 D L2 F2 D' R B D' L D2 L U' R2 F2





Spoiler: 2 solves later



Best average of 5: 19.98
48-52 - 18.91 (21.70) 19.98 (18.41) 21.05


48. 18.91 U' B2 D R2 U2 L2 D F2 U R2 U F U' R D2 B R' D' B2 U L' U2
49. 21.70 L2 B2 D' L2 U B2 D F2 U2 B2 U' B L' B2 R D' B2 F R B' D U'
50. 19.98 D L2 F2 D B2 U L2 D L2 F2 D' R B D' L D2 L U' R2 F2
51. 18.41 L2 B2 U B2 L2 D L2 B2 U L2 U2 L' B' L' F R D' F L2 D2 B2 R
52. 21.05 D B2 D F2 L2 F2 L2 U B2 F2 R2 F D L2 U2 L2 B U' B2 L U R


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## MarcelP (Jul 7, 2013)

Schmidt said:


> Best average of 5: 19.98
> 48-52 - 18.91 (21.70) 19.98 (18.41) 21.05



Sweet.. I wish I could do that


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## Lchu613 (Jul 7, 2013)

kunparekh18 said:


> I was stuck at the 22 second barrier for almost 2 mths :fp it really becomes harder to improve as you get faster.



Really? I broke from 22 to 18 in like 2 weeks, and I was barely practicing. Now I'm at 18-19 and I don't practice so I'm stuck


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## sneaklyfox (Jul 7, 2013)

Sometimes jumps can happen. But I find it is harder to improve the faster you get. Remember early on in your cubing days it took a few days maybe to shave 20 seconds off your 2min solve (for example's sake)? I started speedcubing with about 1:15 or something with my old beginner's method, Rubik's brand, and no fingertricks. After learning 2-look OLL and PLL, I was pretty much instantly at around 48. First "barrier" I felt was about 36. Then later I was stuck at 22 barrier for awhile. Then I was stuck at 18 for awhile longer than when I was at 22. Now I'm at 15/16. I feel progress though so that's ok. A few months ago I was aiming to get at least one sub-15 solve a day (or a couple more). Then a few weeks ago I could get some sub-15 solves ok but sup-13 mostly. Now I'm aiming to get at least one sub-12 a day or a few more. Personally, I don't mind slower improvement as long as I don't feel like I've completely stagnated!


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## Username (Jul 7, 2013)

My first barrier ever was 14.5


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## sneaklyfox (Jul 7, 2013)

Username said:


> My first barrier ever was 14.5



I suppose it could be subjective what feels like a "barrier". For me it means it takes longer than normal for visible improvement. Do you do worse in competition? Because it appears that between March and May (2 months) you only improved a second but between May and now (1.5 months) you improved a lot more?


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## Username (Jul 7, 2013)

sneaklyfox said:


> I suppose it could be subjective what feels like a "barrier". For me it means it takes longer than normal for visible improvement. Do you do worse in competition? Because it appears that between March and May (2 months) you only improved a second but between May and now (1.5 months) you improved a lot more?



I do really bad in comp, especially in the may comp. To me a barrier is when it takes longer and is harder to get sub-x.


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## jayefbe (Jul 7, 2013)

I find that improvements comes tend to come in jumps. I went from sup-30 to about sub-26 in what seemed like a week. I steadily improved, slowly, and then jumped from ~21-22 to ~19 in a couple days. I haven't had a "barrier" yet, but I have noticed that there are periods of relatively slow progress, followed by short periods of very rapid progress. Those days of rapid progress feel amazing, but usually they're followed by frustration when I wish I was still improving at the same rate. My guess, most people follow the same progression patterns. When these jumps occur probably differ among cubers, but I'm sure the pattern is there. 

On a side note, whenever I see something like "I was sub-XX in XX months", it's generally exaggerated. I've checked people's youtube pages, and their competition records and found they were cubing long before they said they were, or actually improved slower than they claimed. I always take those comments with a grain of salt. Not implying at all that anyone on this thread is doing that, but something I always keep in mind when it comes to "well I'm better than you" posts (which there seem to be more of lately).


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## YddEd (Jul 8, 2013)

Since switching to Roux (Used it for a month and 2 weeks) I have had no barriers and I'm around sub 27 o.o
It took me 6-7 months or something to get to sub 25 CFOP (with a 6 month break in between)


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## Lchu613 (Jul 8, 2013)

I tried Roux but gave up because I suck at blocks


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## sneaklyfox (Jul 8, 2013)

YddEd said:


> Since switching to Roux (Used it for a month and 2 weeks) I have had no barriers and I'm around sub 27 o.o
> It took me 6-7 months or something to get to sub 25 CFOP (with a 6 month break in between)



I've heard similar stories, but I believe a lot of how you got fast at Roux in so short a time has to do with your CFOP training/experience that you already have. Skills such as look ahead, fingertricks, and pattern recognition have been developed from CFOP training. J-perm and Y-perm are already learned and practiced usually. So, is Roux now your main method, YddEd?


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## ben1996123 (Jul 8, 2013)

Username said:


> My first barrier ever was 14.5



meyn was rike, 17

stuck there for like o'er a year or somethin


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## pipkiksass (Jul 8, 2013)

Definitely seems to correlate with age - my first barrier was 26! And by 'barrier', I mean stuck there for > a week or so. 

I'm now 'stuck' at 22/23, because I've been here > a week or so. I'll get there one day soon. Occasionally I have a flash of look ahead and get an 18, 17, 16, 15 or 14 (only had 3 sub-15s), but normally I struggle to get sub-20.

Only about the 48th time I've seen it quoted on this forum, but: If you always put limit on everything you do, physical or anything else. It will spread into your work and into your life. There are no limits. There are only plateaus, and you must not stay there, you must go beyond them - Bruce Lee.


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## YddEd (Jul 9, 2013)

sneaklyfox said:


> I've heard similar stories, but I believe a lot of how you got fast at Roux in so short a time has to do with your CFOP training/experience that you already have. Skills such as look ahead, fingertricks, and pattern recognition have been developed from CFOP training. J-perm and Y-perm are already learned and practiced usually. So, is Roux now your main method, YddEd?


I don't use the J perm, I use the T perm because I think it's faster  Yeah Roux is my main method now, it improved my M slices alot and I found out a few things by myself without looking on the internet. I never had lookahead until these few days though 



pipkiksass said:


> Bruce Lee.


Bruce Lee = 20% cooler than Jackie Chan


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## sneaklyfox (Jul 9, 2013)

Ok T perm then. I'm practicing some Roux too. It's fun to do for a change though I don't see it becoming my main method.

Off topic... actually, very off topic... this is Marcel's thread and we're just having a random conversation... but... MY CUBES ARE IN MY CITY RIGHT NOW!!! Which means I will probably get them later today. I'm SOOOOO EXCITED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## MarcelP (Jul 9, 2013)

sneaklyfox said:


> MY CUBES ARE IN MY CITY RIGHT NOW!!! Which means I will probably get them later today. I'm SOOOOO EXCITED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



Whooohoo!!! Happy day today!.. Let us know when you unpacked them which you prefer at first glance..


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## Schmidt (Jul 9, 2013)

About the T / J perm in Roux: It depends on the case! If 2 unoriented pieces are opp. each other in the top layer do a J to get them adj. If adj. already do a T. This is just personal opinion as I think there is less work in the adj. cases.

Its the same with Y. UB and UL swaps places, so use it to your advantage.

With headlights on left: T=UL and UR swap
J=UF and UR swap


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## sneaklyfox (Jul 9, 2013)

MarcelP said:


> Whooohoo!!! Happy day today!.. Let us know when you unpacked them which you prefer at first glance..


Sure! I'll try to do an unboxing video.



Schmidt said:


> About the T / J perm in Roux: It depends on the case! If 2 unoriented pieces are opp. each other in the top layer do a J to get them adj. If adj. already do a T. This is just personal opinion as I think there is less work in the adj. cases.


Not sure what you mean exactly. Do you mean opposite corners? If so, I would just do a Y perm. For adjacent, either J or T work fine. For me those algs are pretty much the same.


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## MarcelP (Jul 9, 2013)

Whooo, after a busy day at work I filmed the first 12 solves of the evening. Ao12 24.32. These are on my Youtube channel ofcourse. In that was this Ao5 of 22.58:



Spoiler



8. 25.14 F2 L2 D' L2 F2 L2 U' B2 D' L2 D2 R' U' F2 R L2 D B F R D F
9. 21.24 D B2 R2 D' R2 U F2 U' L2 U B D U B' L' U' L2 F' R' U'
10. 25.51 D L2 U' R2 U2 R2 U L2 U L2 U F' R2 D2 F2 R2 U' F' R' U' R2
11. 21.07 R2 D U L2 F2 U' B2 F2 R2 B2 D R' D B U' F R2 L D R2 B U2
12. 21.36 F2 L2 B2 U L2 D R2 U L2 D2 R' B F D' B2 R2 D L' F' D'



[video=youtube_share;QEAQ1-N4XKo]http://youtu.be/QEAQ1-N4XKo[/video]


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## Schmidt (Jul 9, 2013)

sneaklyfox said:


> Not sure what you mean exactly. Do you mean opposite corners? If so, I would just do a Y perm. For adjacent, either J or T work fine. For me those algs are pretty much the same.



I mean edges. I hate to solve just 2 opp. edges, 2 adj. are easier to deal with

[video=youtube_share;dJqhX1aXWKY]http://youtu.be/dJqhX1aXWKY[/video]


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## sneaklyfox (Jul 10, 2013)

MarcelP said:


> Whooo, after a busy day at work I filmed the first 12 solves of the evening. Ao12 24.32. These are on my Youtube channel ofcourse. In that was this Ao5 of 22.58:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Nice, Marcel! On video too!

New cubes update: I got my cubes but I haven't opened it yet because I wanted to try doing an unboxing video and was planning on doing it after all my kids were in bed. My daughter wants me to open it sooner though because she wants to see what I got. I guess we'll see about that. Either way, I'm going to have a fun night.

Edit: So unboxing video didn't work. Or more like my camera shut itself off after the first minute and a half... stupid thing. Annoying. I don't know why it does that. It better be working by the time I get into labour. Too bad the camera was weird or I would have opened my cubes sooner. Anyway, Zhanchi is just a Zhanchi. All the cubes probably need lubing and tensioning, but I can tell that I'm definitely going to have a new main. Which one? Not sure yet, but as I already know somewhat about Zhanchi, I think it's more likely my main is going to be the ShuangRen or the WeiLong. My first impression is that I actually prefer the feel of the ShuangRen which was a surprise because the sandy sound from reviews I've watched made me think I might not like it. I hate the stickers on it though. The MoYu stickers are nicer looking. (I ordered all 3 as black cubes.) Anyway, I'm going to tinker with them (lubing, tensioning, restickering) and play for a few days before deciding for sure.


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## MarcelP (Jul 10, 2013)

sneaklyfox said:


> Nice, Marcel! On video too!



Yes, and my current PB Ao12 23.92 is not far off. I think after almost 6 months of plateau-ing I finally am improving  



sneaklyfox said:


> My first impression is that I actually prefer the feel of the ShuangRen which was a surprise because the sandy sound from reviews I've watched made me think I might not like it.



My white ShuangRen is my main now. I have ordered a bunch of pink bright stickers. Maybe my white Weilong with pink on orange will replace the ShuangRen. In any case I am going to re-sticker most of my good cubes with orange -> pink. I seem to have a better look ahead on pink.


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## lcsbiffi (Jul 10, 2013)

Do pink stickers contrast better with red stickers?


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## MarcelP (Jul 10, 2013)

lcsbiffi said:


> Do pink stickers contrast better with red stickers?



I don't know if that is the case. That would be handy if lights where fading. But so far I have used it only with pure daylight. And it seems that I find pairs easier when there are pink stickers. When I go back to orange stickers I notice that I need to search longer..


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## YddEd (Jul 10, 2013)

Schmidt said:


> About the T / J perm in Roux: It depends on the case! If 2 unoriented pieces are opp. each other in the top layer do a J to get them adj. If adj. already do a T. This is just personal opinion as I think there is less work in the adj. cases.
> 
> Its the same with Y. UB and UL swaps places, so use it to your advantage.
> 
> ...


I'm probably not going to use the Y perm and T perm that much anymore, learning CMLL 
I like the opposite unoriented case because I seem to do do R U R' U' M' U R U' r' (alg I use) faster than M' U M U2 M' U M (alg I use).


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## sneaklyfox (Jul 10, 2013)

YddEd said:


> I'm probably not going to use the Y perm and T perm that much anymore, learning CMLL
> I like the opposite unoriented case because I seem to do do R U R' U' M' U R U' r' (alg I use) faster than M' U M U2 M' U M (alg I use).



For opposite unoriented, if you like R U R' U' M' U R U' r', you should do r' U R' U' M U R U' R' for adjacent case as it's similar. (I execute M as r' R.)


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## MarcelP (Jul 11, 2013)

okay,

Today I did two Ao50's. One with my main (White ShuangRen) and one with my previous main MoYu HuangYing. It seems I am faster on the HuangYing..

ShuangRen:


Spoiler



Mean: 26.79
Average: 26.74
Best time: 19.51
Median: 26.74
Worst time: 36.47
Standard deviation: 3.03

Best average of 5: 24.50
34-38 - 22.35 25.41 (32.58) (19.51) 25.75

Best average of 12: 24.81
32-43 - 24.32 26.82 22.35 25.41 (32.58) (19.51) 25.75 24.28 23.79 25.64 26.93 22.82



HuangYing:


Spoiler



Mean: 25.68
Average: 25.66
Best time: 21.36
Median: 25.38
Worst time: 30.83
Standard deviation: 2.25

Best average of 5: 23.48
33-37 - 23.48 (28.51) 22.28 (21.56) 24.68

Best average of 12: 24.07
32-43 - 26.31 23.48 (28.51) 22.28 21.56 24.68 26.92 24.99 24.67 22.32 (21.36) 23.48



Tomorrow I will add Ao50 with white MoYu Weilong and maybe 54.6 mm ShuangRen.. or maybe I wait for my stickers to arrive for that one


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## YddEd (Jul 11, 2013)

sneaklyfox said:


> For opposite unoriented, if you like R U R' U' M' U R U' r', you should do r' U R' U' M U R U' R' for adjacent case as it's similar. (I execute M as r' R.)


I think I should be fine with my algorithm. I can execute it well, probably because of my fingertricks though. (Also, I'm not sure if I'm reading the notation wrong or if the alg is just wrong :/ )
I execute M putting my ring finger on the FD sticker and pushing to DB. I think most people push from DB to BU (if that's right) but I find it awkward to do. Some others also use their right index finger. I do that when my ring finger is in a weird position.



MarcelP said:


> okay,
> 
> Today I did two Ao50's. One with my main (White ShuangRen) and one with my previous main MoYu HuangYing. It seems I am faster on the HuangYing..
> 
> ...


imho as long as the cube is good and you have a easy scramble, your time is good. If you have a good cube with a hard scramble, your time should be worse than usual. Don't know for sure though, might be wrong.
I should stop doing 4x4 and do more 3x3...


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## sneaklyfox (Jul 11, 2013)

YddEd said:


> I think I should be fine with my algorithm. I can execute it well, probably because of my fingertricks though. (Also, I'm not sure if I'm reading the notation wrong or if the alg is just wrong :/ )
> I execute M putting my ring finger on the FD sticker and pushing to DB. I think most people push from DB to BU (if that's right) but I find it awkward to do. Some others also use their right index finger. I do that when my ring finger is in a weird position.



Hmm... nope, I just checked the algorithm and it works fine. r' U R' U' M U R U' R' The adjacent edges should be in UF and UR.
I definitely can't put ring finger on FD and push to DB comfortably. I can do DB to BU with left ring. Or pull from BU to UF with either index. Sometimes I even did right thumb UF to FD but that's supposed to be slow...


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## Username (Jul 11, 2013)

sneaklyfox said:


> Hmm... nope, I just checked the algorithm and it works fine. *r* U R' U' M U R U' R' The adjacent edges should be in UF and UR.
> I definitely can't put ring finger on FD and push to DB comfortably. I can do DB to BU with left ring. Or pull from BU to UF with either index. Sometimes I even did right thumb UF to FD but that's supposed to be slow...



Fixed, it was incorrect


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## sneaklyfox (Jul 11, 2013)

Username said:


> Fixed, it was incorrect



Haha... I guess I was misreading it! Sorry and thanks.


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## YddEd (Jul 12, 2013)

sneaklyfox said:


> Hmm... nope, I just checked the algorithm and it works fine. *r U R' U' M U R U' R' *The adjacent edges should be in UF and UR.
> I definitely can't put ring finger on FD and push to DB comfortably. I can do DB to BU with left ring. Or pull from BU to UF with either index. Sometimes I even did right thumb UF to FD but that's supposed to be slow...


Well since it was fixed, I think it's good. I'll use it for a few solves.
Left ring finger FD to DB for me is kind of a push flick type thing. I find it faster to do in algs like M U2 M2' U2 M2' so you don't have to rotate.


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## MarcelP (Jul 12, 2013)

Today I did an Ao50 with my white Weilong. man, that cube is pure magic. I had 4 sub 20 solves. That is great achievement for me. The 17.65 was an OLL skip.



Spoiler



Mean: 25.92
Average: 25.94
Best time: 17.65
Median: 26.92
Worst time: 33.01
Standard deviation: 3.28

Best average of 5: 23.93
45-49 - 24.84 24.30 (26.50) (19.89) 22.64

Best average of 12: 24.69
19-30 - 19.56 18.88 28.15 28.04 27.72 21.70 23.22 27.78 26.08 (28.22) (17.65) 25.72


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## Schmidt (Jul 12, 2013)

We should do that TTW ao50 soon


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## MarcelP (Jul 12, 2013)

Schmidt said:


> We should do that TTW ao50 soon



I registered..  Never heard of this TTW before..


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## Schmidt (Jul 12, 2013)

I would say that an ao50 takes about an hour for us old timers. Do you have time tonight?


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## MarcelP (Jul 12, 2013)

I don't think so. Sunday evening at 19:00 UCT? maybe we could do a smaller average. Ao12 or Ao25?


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## Schmidt (Jul 12, 2013)

Ok. We could do an ao12 to start with and then see from there.


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## kcl (Jul 12, 2013)

You know, if Feliks were to compete to the day he dies, I wonder if the times would make a parabola..?


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## Schmidt (Jul 12, 2013)

Is 19 UCT 20 Dutch/Danish time?


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## MarcelP (Jul 12, 2013)

19:00 GMT


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## Schmidt (Jul 12, 2013)

Gmt= London = west from here = 19 there = 20 here?


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## MarcelP (Jul 12, 2013)

Right now it is 18:27 here..


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## Schmidt (Jul 12, 2013)

18.34, but I would call this CET Central European time

actually CEST "summer"


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## MarcelP (Jul 12, 2013)

Ok, Sunday 19:00 CET then?


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## Schmidt (Jul 12, 2013)

Yes. I'm already smiling


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## MarcelP (Jul 12, 2013)

Yeah I know you are going to win big time


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## Schmidt (Jul 12, 2013)

"Cubing is just about having fun!"
Yeah, right!


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## sneaklyfox (Jul 13, 2013)

I don't think I'll be able to watch (if I understand the time correctly).


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## sneaklyfox (Jul 13, 2013)

sneaklyfox said:


> Anyway, Zhanchi is just a Zhanchi. All the cubes probably need lubing and tensioning, but I can tell that I'm definitely going to have a new main. Which one? Not sure yet, but as I already know somewhat about Zhanchi, I think it's more likely my main is going to be the ShuangRen or the WeiLong. My first impression is that I actually prefer the feel of the ShuangRen which was a surprise because the sandy sound from reviews I've watched made me think I might not like it. I hate the stickers on it though. The MoYu stickers are nicer looking. (I ordered all 3 as black cubes.) Anyway, I'm going to tinker with them (lubing, tensioning, restickering) and play for a few days before deciding for sure.



Sorry for double post. So I've played with SR and WL for a few days now and also the ZC for half a day. In order of favourite to least favourite:

#1 Fangshi ShuangRen - This is my new main! I really love it and the feeling has totally grown on me. I was really not expecting that to happen from the gritty sound of it in the reviews but it's really pleasant for me. It's smooth feeling and corner cuts well. I've only had 1 corner twist out of ~500 solves (I've heard of issues with corner twisting but it's not an issue for me... perhaps turning style or tension?) No pops yet. Basically, I will say it's smooth like how I love my Guhong but less blocky with better corner cutting and more control. It's awesome and I love it.

#2 Dayan Zhanchi - With some breaking in I can tell it will be an enjoyable cube to use. I'll probably use it now and then. What do I need to say? A Zhanchi is a Zhanchi. It's still an awesome cube. I just love my ShuangRen more.

#3 Moyu WeiLong - Yeah, a bit of a disappointment there. I thought it would be really great but at first turns I was already not terribly sold on it. After lubing and tensioning and such it was a little better I guess but I can't get myself to like it even if I wanted to like it. I don't like the airy bubbly feeling or the uncontrollable speed. Basically it's a slippery cube. Faster than anything I've felt, but I prefer control. Stock stickers are the best but who cares about those. You buy cubes for the cube itself, not the stickers. I tried tightening it and overlubing it but not to much effect except tighter meant more locky. I get locks on it because the slipperiness makes layers get out of alignment too easily. Then sometimes I think they're aligned and try to make an R' turn or something and something else turns instead. I also got much worse times on it though very intentionally going slow on F2L helped some. Well, even if I could get good times on it (at least equal with other cubes), I don't like the feeling. Too bad.


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## MarcelP (Jul 13, 2013)

sneaklyfox said:


> Sorry for double post. So I've played with SR and WL for a few days now and also the ZC for half a day. In order of favourite to least favourite:
> 
> #1 Fangshi ShuangRen - This is my new main! I really love it and the feeling has totally grown on me. I was really not expecting that to happen from the gritty sound of it in the reviews but it's really pleasant for me. It's smooth feeling and corner cuts well. I've only had 1 corner twist out of ~500 solves (I've heard of issues with corner twisting but it's not an issue for me... perhaps turning style or tension?) No pops yet. Basically, I will say it's smooth like how I love my Guhong but less blocky with better corner cutting and more control. It's awesome and I love it.
> 
> ...



I am between ShuangRen and Weilong. No Zhanchi feels good after solving the previous two.  I ordered a new white Weilong (since I want to keep the prototype with it's original stickers) and with pink stickers it might become my main. Right now my ShuangRen with pink stickers is my main. I just love that cube. Only I have probably one every 25 solves a corner twist. Tightening the cube works on that part. But then it looses it's magical feeling and becomes slow.


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## Lchu613 (Jul 13, 2013)

I really want the MoYu now seeing as I'm always looking for what other people think is uncontrollable

Oh and I have ShuangRen and a modded Zhanchi (Lagom's edge mod, CPM, corner base mods) and I have to say I can't decide between the two


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## YddEd (Jul 13, 2013)

Lchu613 said:


> I really want the MoYu now seeing as I'm always looking for what other people think is uncontrollable
> 
> Oh and I have ShuangRen and a modded Zhanchi (Lagom's edge mod, CPM, corner base mods) and I have to say I can't decide between the two


How does Langom do the edge mod? Is it just the 48 PEM?



sneaklyfox said:


> #3 Moyu WeiLong - Yeah, a bit of a disappointment there. I thought it would be really great but at first turns I was already not terribly sold on it. After lubing and tensioning and such it was a little better I guess but I can't get myself to like it even if I wanted to like it. I don't like the airy bubbly feeling or the *uncontrollable speed. Basically it's a slippery cube. Faster than anything I've felt*, but I prefer control. Stock stickers are the best but who cares about those. You buy cubes for the cube itself, not the stickers. I tried tightening it and overlubing it but not to much effect except tighter meant more locky. I get locks on it because the slipperiness makes layers get out of alignment too easily. Then sometimes I think they're aligned and try to make an R' turn or something and something else turns instead. I also got much worse times on it though very intentionally going slow on F2L helped some. Well, even if I could get good times on it (at least equal with other cubes), I don't like the feeling. Too bad.


I'm probably going to love the Weilong. I love fast cubes that are uncontrollable 
Sorry for going so off topic Marcel :/


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## Lchu613 (Jul 13, 2013)

The way I take it, it's like the 48 PEM only instead of those points, you round off the edges on the tips of the edge base.


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## MarcelP (Jul 13, 2013)

YddEd said:


> Sorry for going so off topic Marcel :/



There is no off topic here. Feel free to post anything you like


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## YddEd (Jul 13, 2013)

Lchu613 said:


> The way I take it, it's like the 48 PEM only instead of those points, you round off the edges on the tips of the edge base.


I actually did a weird mod where instead of doing the 48 PEM or that, you make the whole place shorter. End result: Loads of explosions and pops XD


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## MarcelP (Jul 13, 2013)

Lchu613 said:


> I really want the MoYu now seeing as I'm always looking for what other people think is uncontrollable



You will love it. I have my second Weilong very tight and then it's no so uncontrollable. But like Sneaklyfox said, it becomes more bumpy. But still that is less bumpy than a smooth Zhanchi.


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## mark49152 (Jul 13, 2013)

For me, the effect of having so many good cubes now is that I don't really have a main any more. I pick up a different cube and enjoy something about it compared to the last one, so use that for a day or two. Not sure if that's a good or bad thing.


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## MarcelP (Jul 13, 2013)

mark49152 said:


> For me, the effect of having so many good cubes now is that I don't really have a main any more. I pick up a different cube and enjoy something about it compared to the last one, so use that for a day or two. Not sure if that's a good or bad thing.



It's a bad thing when you are sub10  when slower it's a good thing to get used to different cubes I think.


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## YddEd (Jul 13, 2013)

MarcelP said:


> *It's a bad thing when you are sub10*  when slower it's a good thing to get used to different cubes I think.


But you haven't switched cubes everyday while being sub 10, have you?


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## kunparekh18 (Jul 13, 2013)

I have only had one 3x3 speedcube ever. A 57mm Zhanchi. And I love it. Have never bothered to buy other cubes. :tu


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## mark49152 (Jul 13, 2013)

MarcelP said:


> It's a bad thing when you are sub10  when slower it's a good thing to get used to different cubes I think.


Yeah I would define "bad" as impairing progress, but it's impossible to know whether progress would have been better without having switched cubes. Anyway trying lots of cubes is part of the fun regardless of progress.


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## MarcelP (Jul 13, 2013)

mark49152 said:


> Anyway trying lots of cubes is part of the fun regardless of progress.



Could not agree more.. What do you think of the Weilong btw?


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## mark49152 (Jul 13, 2013)

MarcelP said:


> Could not agree more.. What do you think of the Weilong btw?


It is waiting for me in the mail office but I am not even going to collect it until my hand injury is recovered. To have it sat in front of me and not be able to use it properly would be just too depressing


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## MarcelP (Jul 13, 2013)

Smart thinking!


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## YddEd (Jul 13, 2013)

mark49152 said:


> It is waiting for me in the mail office but I am not even going to collect it until my hand injury is recovered. To have it sat in front of me and not be able to use it properly would be just too depressing


Don't post shops only keep a package for a certain amount of time?


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## mark49152 (Jul 13, 2013)

YddEd said:


> Don't post shops only keep a package for a certain amount of time?


No the office is at the gate house where I live. There's a curvy copter in the package as well, so the temptation is almost overwhelming...


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## MarcelP (Jul 13, 2013)

mark49152 said:


> No the office is at the gate house where I live. There's a curvy copter in the package as well, so the temptation is almost overwhelming...



LOL, come on man. Go get it!


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## sneaklyfox (Jul 13, 2013)

YddEd said:


> Sorry for going so off topic Marcel :/





MarcelP said:


> There is no off topic here. Feel free to post anything you like


I consider this thread something akin to sitting in Marcel's living room with a bunch of friends chatting about anything we like and mostly about cubes. 



MarcelP said:


> You will love it. I have my second Weilong very tight and then it's no so uncontrollable. But like Sneaklyfox said, it becomes more bumpy. But still that is less bumpy than a smooth Zhanchi.


Well, maybe I will try tightening the WL some more. As for SR, since I have only gotten one corner twist in over 500 solves, maybe I will loosen it a bit and see if it's even more amazing.


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## jayefbe (Jul 13, 2013)

I just got a bunch of new cubes yesterday, so thought I would weigh in. 

I'm not really a fan of the 57mm shuangren. (I also think its incredible you aren't getting corner twists sneakly, I had one in my very first solve and then maybe a bit less than ten percent of the solves after). I just wasn't a huge fan of how the cube felt. But, I thought the mini would have strong potential for OH. The shuangren turns very well, it feels very "light" and it doesn't lock up, all great things for OH. I just received the mini shuangren, and I already know I'm going to have a very tough time choosing between that and my 55mm zhanchi when I compete at Worlds. The .4mm difference is also noticeable, and I like it. I do have some rough sharp spots on the corner pieces, which is a bit annoying. They could still work on their quality control. Plus, the stickers, ugh, I dislike these more than any other stock stickers, it doesn't help that half of them have huge bubbles underneath them. 

The weilong, so far, is the only new cube that's lived up to the hype for me. It is fast, but I still have no problem being accurate on it. I never have lock ups with it. It just turns so effortlessly. While it doesn't corner cut any more than my zhanchi, it has an ability to transition between face turns at higher speeds than I can achieve on the zhanchi. I feel like I can do repeated sexy moves much faster without locking up on the weilong. My algs just flow on this cube. It's still early days, but I really love this cube. It's depressing me to say it, because I spent so much time modding and solving my main zhanchi, but the weilong might be my new main. 

As far as the legality issue goes, I would be dumbfounded if this cube was illegal. The line from the corner cap is less noticeable than the ones on the SS 4x4, and nobody is saying that cube (or the F-II) is illegal. It would be impossible to use it to anyone's advantage in a speedsolve.


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## MarcelP (Jul 13, 2013)

sneaklyfox said:


> I consider this thread something akin to sitting in Marcel's living room with a bunch of friends chatting about anything we like and mostly about cubes.
> 
> 
> Well, maybe I will try tightening the WL some more. As for SR, since I have only gotten one corner twist in over 500 solves, maybe I will loosen it a bit and see if it's even more amazing.



You are most welcome anyway  Yeah, I think you should give the Weilong a good shot. Also, it get better with many solves. It needs some breaking in (in opposite to shuangRen which is awesome from the beginning).



jayefbe said:


> . Plus, the stickers, ugh, I dislike these more than any other stock stickers, it doesn't help that half of them have huge bubbles underneath them.



Yeah, I ordered the mini 3 X 3 stickers from Cubesmith. Can't wait to get those, since the 54.6 mm ShuangRen is magic.


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## moralsh (Jul 13, 2013)

MarcelP said:


> Ok, Sunday 19:00 CET then?



I might make it, I'm gonna be at my parents' til tomorrow, but I plan to get home in time.

I qualify as old enough since last month and on my good days I'm around Marcel's averages.


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## MarcelP (Jul 13, 2013)

Great!!


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## sneaklyfox (Jul 14, 2013)

MarcelP said:


> You are most welcome anyway  Yeah, I think you should give the Weilong a good shot. Also, it get better with many solves. It needs some breaking in (in opposite to shuangRen which is awesome from the beginning).
> 
> Yeah, I ordered the mini 3 X 3 stickers from Cubesmith. Can't wait to get those, since the 54.6 mm ShuangRen is magic.


Well the WL does give me some good times some of the times but I still don't think I like the feel of it. I thought the SR needed breaking in and that the texture would get smoother over time. I didn't think the WL needed breaking in but maybe I will try several hundred more solves on it. Did you resticker your WL, btw? I'm not sure what size of sticker best fits it. 57mm fitted?

Now I'm rather tempted to get the 54.6mm SR because I like OH and right now would probably still use my previous main 55mm ZC for that. I really still love my 57mm SR and actually broke my PB Ao100 with it today.


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## MarcelP (Jul 14, 2013)

sneaklyfox said:


> I thought the SR needed breaking in and that the texture would get smoother over time.



No, the texture does not slow the cube down, But with the wrong lube it will slow the cube down. All my ShuangRens (two blacks, two whites and a 54.6) where very fast from the start. The Weilong is also very fast from the start, but you can feel that some plastic needs to be shaved off (by cubing). After 500 solves or so the Weilong is much smoother.




sneaklyfox said:


> I didn't think the WL needed breaking in but maybe I will try several hundred more solves on it. Did you resticker your WL, btw? I'm not sure what size of sticker best fits it. 57mm fitted?



I restickered the orange on my Black Weilong with normal (half bright orange) 57 mm 3 x 3 x3 stickers from Cubesmith. 



sneaklyfox said:


> Now I'm rather tempted to get the 54.6mm SR because I like OH and right now would probably still use my previous main 55mm ZC for that. I really still love my 57mm SR and actually broke my PB Ao100 with it today.



Yeah, the 54.6 is just as good as the 57 mm. You should definatly get one  What was your average of 100?


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## mark49152 (Jul 14, 2013)

So I got my Weilong and it does indeed have the potential to be a great cube. It was tight and had appalling spring noise, out of the box, so I disassembled and lubed the core as I do with all my cubes.

Problem is, I found it impossible to get the screws back in straight. I don't know if they were straight originally, but no matter what I did they wouldn't go back in straight. As a result, even with precise adjustment of each screw depth, the faces are not evenly tensioned, and I can't get the cube to balance properly. I will replace the core with one from another cube, before spending any solving time on the Weilong. Has anyone else has issues with the core?


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## MarcelP (Jul 14, 2013)

mark49152 said:


> Has anyone else has issues with the core?



Yep, me with my second Weilong. A DIY kit. I have no problems during solving.


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## MarcelP (Jul 14, 2013)

In case some one is wondering what happened at the Battle of the Titans:







That was real fun.


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## sneaklyfox (Jul 14, 2013)

MarcelP said:


> I restickered the orange on my Black Weilong with normal (half bright orange) 57 mm 3 x 3 x3 stickers from Cubesmith.


That's funny, because that's exactly what I did too. The other stock stickers are fine but I just didn't like the orange.



MarcelP said:


> Yeah, the 54.6 is just as good as the 57 mm. You should definatly get one  What was your average of 100?


After my last *big* purchase, I think I won't be spending more money on cubes for now. Maybe later. It was my first sub-16 Ao100 (15.96).

Edit: Actually 15.94 now.


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## moralsh (Jul 14, 2013)

Just arrived home so I couldn't make it, next time I'll be there.

Next sunday?


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## YddEd (Jul 14, 2013)

MarcelP said:


> In case some one is wondering what happened at the Battle of the Titans:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Wow... I HAVE GOT TO STOP 4x4 
I'm working on Roux colour neutrality just for fun  (Hardest thing ever imo, but Robert Yau has done it so...)


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## MarcelP (Jul 15, 2013)

moralsh said:


> Next sunday?



That would be nice. I hope you are not as fast as Schmidt.. LOL I try to make it again next Sunday but I can't promise it yet.



YddEd said:


> Wow... I HAVE GOT TO STOP 4x4



This Ao50 is a PB for me. Never had a sub 25 before.. The fact that people where watching made me focus a bit more than I usually do in big averages.. I even had one sub 20 in there.


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## YddEd (Jul 15, 2013)

MarcelP said:


> That would be nice. I hope you are not as fast as Schmidt.. LOL I try to make it again next Sunday but I can't promise it yet.
> 
> 
> 
> This Ao50 is a PB for me. Never had a sub 25 before.. The fact that people where watching made me focus a bit more than I usually do in big averages.. I even had one sub 20 in there.


What's the time you did it and what's the time now?
I could join if it was called Battle of the sub 20-30 people  ( Even though that name sounds stupid  )


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## MarcelP (Jul 15, 2013)

YddEd said:


> What's the time you did it and what's the time now?



We did it at 19:00 CET. It's now 10.06 here..


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## MarcelP (Jul 21, 2013)

moralsh said:


> Next sunday?



I have some time to cube right now


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## Schmidt (Jul 22, 2013)

Did the two of you cube last night?

i haven't timed a solve since last Tuesday! I'm playing HeroQuest with my two youngest instead.


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## MarcelP (Jul 22, 2013)

Well, I did with some other members. It was fun.


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## MarcelP (Jul 24, 2013)

Ao12 sub 25 on video.. No exceptional fast ones but overall more consistency... I like that.

24.40 26.49 24.86 23.04 25.38 22.71 (22.23) 27.88 25.66 25.27 (29.78) 23.30 = *24.90*


Spoiler



33. 24.40 B2 L2 F2 U' F2 U B2 U' F2 L2 B2 L D F2 U L2 B' U2 B2 F' R'
34. 26.49 R2 F2 L2 D' F2 R2 D' U L2 D2 R F D' B R U2 L2 U' L F2
35. 24.86 R2 D2 R2 F2 U' F2 R2 B2 U2 R2 U F' L B' R2 L' D' R U R F2 R'
36. 23.04 L2 D' R2 D2 R2 D' R2 U' F2 D' U2 B D2 L' D2 L' U F R2 D' U'
37. 25.38 B2 D B2 F2 U B2 D F2 R2 D2 U' R' B D' F U' R' D' F D R2
38. 22.71 U' R2 L2 F2 U' F2 D R2 F2 D U2 L' F R D' U' L D' R U' L' U'
39. 22.23 D' F2 L2 U' R2 U' B2 U2 B2 U L' F' R' B' R' F2 L2 D2 B2 U'
40. 27.88 D' L2 D2 F2 R2 F2 D F2 D' R2 D R' F D2 R' B2 R' F U' B D2
41. 25.66 L2 D2 L2 D L2 U B2 U F2 L2 U' B' U' F2 D' U' L U' F' R B2
42. 25.27 D L2 U' B2 D B2 U2 B2 R2 U R D2 U B2 F L' F2 L B' U
43. 29.78 R2 U' B2 L2 D2 R2 U' L2 D U' B' D2 L B F' U R' F' D2 B'
44. 23.30 R2 F2 R2 U2 F2 D L2 U2 F2 L2 U2 R F' L' D' L D U B2 F D' U'



[video=youtube_share;jJAQ_SAbPHI]http://youtu.be/jJAQ_SAbPHI[/video]


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## mark49152 (Jul 24, 2013)

Nice one. Which cube?


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## Username (Jul 24, 2013)

mark49152 said:


> Nice one. Which cube?



Title says WeiLong


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## mark49152 (Jul 24, 2013)

Username said:


> Title says WeiLong


Thanks, that doesn't appear in the mobile site.


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## MarcelP (Jul 24, 2013)

mark49152 said:


> Nice one. Which cube?


Just watch the first 6 seconds of the video  LOL

No, I am trying to make Weilong my main. My current main is HunagYing. I get the best times on that. But I like ShuangRen better. Unfortunatly I have some corner twists when I am really on fire. So therefore ShuangRen will not be my main. I ordered new Weilongs. I have a white one that performs really different than my white first one (prototype). Although I think the prototypes are same as production line, this new one is much better. It's more solid like a Zhanchi. The prototype is really unstable. The new one is just as fast, just as smooth and has same good performance in the lockup area. I am waiting on a bunch Cubesmith stickers. When restickered to pink this Weilong might become my new main. The Black Weilong is pure magic, but I am no good black cube solver.


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## Schmidt (Jul 24, 2013)

MarcelP said:


> .... but I am no good black cube solver.



I could PM my address to you


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## MarcelP (Jul 24, 2013)

Schmidt said:


> I could PM my address to you



Shipping to you is probably more expensive than the ordering one for like 8 dollars from Fasttech.com


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## mark49152 (Jul 24, 2013)

There's no embedded video or video link in the mobile site either. I need a phone with bigger screen  

I have no main any more. I use a cube for a couple of days, then pick up another and think "this feels nicer". Repeat ad infinitum. Too many good cubes!


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## MarcelP (Jul 25, 2013)

mark49152 said:


> There's no embedded video or video link in the mobile site either. I need a phone with bigger screen
> 
> I have no main any more. I use a cube for a couple of days, then pick up another and think "this feels nicer". Repeat ad infinitum. Too many good cubes!



If you ever enter a WCA competition, I think you should pick a main a few days before that and only solve that cube. So that there are no akward moves or anything while solving


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## mark49152 (Jul 26, 2013)

Lookahead is starting to kick in. Wiped a whole second off my PB ao50 yesterday!


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## MarcelP (Jul 26, 2013)

Nice! What cube did you use?


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## MarcelP (Jul 26, 2013)

It's has been months but finally I broke my Ao100 with 0.08 seconds... 

New main cube, MoYu Weilong.


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## mark49152 (Jul 26, 2013)

Nice one  Still takes me too long to do an ao100 so 50 will have to do. 



MarcelP said:


> Nice! What cube did you use?


Zhanchi 55. Didn't have any locking issues, which is unusual for me. This is my favourite cube...


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## kunparekh18 (Jul 26, 2013)

I saw your recent Weilong avg12 video, you wouldn't mind if I gave you some tips, right?

1) Cross

Try executing it faster, you can plan it well in inspection from what I saw, just try doing it faster, don't try to look where the cross edges while you solve it, that'll lead to pauses, just try memorising the moves in inspection, it's okay to use a bit more of inspection time. For an ideal sub-20 solver, cross should be around 3 seconds, yours are around 5, in some 3-4 solves I saw pauses before solving the 4th cross edge, try working on that, if you actually plan your cross wholly in inspection and solve without looking at it you might actually be able to lookahead into the first F2L pair easily.

That was one long sentence OMG

2) F2L

Pauses are still there, try looking ahead a bit more, unnecessary rotations like y2s and y3s should be eliminated, I guess doing slow solves, where you try to solve F2L with the least number of rotations will do the trick for you, also try inserting F2L pairs from different angles with R' U R, L U' L', etc, when I was averaging 26 I got an 18 second official solve ONLY because F2L had just 1 rotation, that shows how important minimising rotations are. Slow solves will help you in all of the above aspects.

I must applaud you for your pair insertion-execution though, excellent, better than mine, teach me pls 

3) OLL

Try increasing tps a bit more here, from what I saw your LL tps was almost the same as F2L tps. Also get better algs, for example F (triple sexy) F' can be done in a better (IMO) way as R U2 R' U' sexy R U' R'. Drill all OLLs to increase tps

4) PLL 

Same as above, though I don't think you need better algs, just drill them and try executing them faster, maybe look on Youtube for better ways of executing/better fingertricks, jskyler's channel is one of the places where you can learn this



EDIT: also, what I think ideal splits for a sub-20 solver are is 3-10-3-3, compare yours with that and work on the part which needs most improvement


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## MarcelP (Jul 26, 2013)

mark49152 said:


> Nice one  Still takes me too long to do an ao100 so 50 will have to do.
> Zhanchi 55. Didn't have any locking issues, which is unusual for me. This is my favourite cube...



I have a few 55 mm's I don't really care for them. I like 57 mm Zhanchi's better. What was your average?



kunparekh18 said:


> I saw your recent Weilong avg12 video, you wouldn't mind if I gave you some tips, right?


Ofcourse not. I love any feed back.



kunparekh18 said:


> 1) Cross
> 
> Try executing it faster, you can plan it well in inspection from what I saw, just try doing it faster, don't try to look where the cross edges while you solve it, that'll lead to pauses, just try memorising the moves in inspection, it's okay to use a bit more of inspection time. For an ideal sub-20 solver, cross should be around 3 seconds, yours are around 5, in some 3-4 solves I saw pauses before solving the 4th cross edge, try working on that, if you actually plan your cross wholly in inspection and solve without looking at it you might actually be able to lookahead into the first F2L pair easily.



Yes, crosses have been my biggest weaknes for a long time. But today I find it quite easy to plan a cross in 15 seconds. It also help that I can pick from any color. I have this strategy now that I look for the white cross first. When it is not an obvious cross I look further for a different cross. My solves are just as fast on any color now. Only white crosses are faster  But you have a few great points here. I guess I should do some more dedicated cross training.



kunparekh18 said:


> 2) F2L
> 
> Pauses are still there, try looking ahead a bit more, unnecessary rotations like y2s and y3s should be eliminated,


I make y2 and u2 just to look for pieces when I have failed to look ahead.. Bad habit, I know 



kunparekh18 said:


> I guess doing slow solves, where you try to solve F2L with the least number of rotations will do the trick for you, also try inserting F2L pairs from different angles with R' U R, L U' L', etc,



Yeah, I have recently also found out my move count is unnecessary high. 



kunparekh18 said:


> I must applaud you for your pair insertion-execution though, excellent, better than mine, teach me pls



You mean it is fast? I don't think my pair insertion is that good. I do think I make use of the best trigger for that most of the time.



kunparekh18 said:


> 3) OLL
> 
> Try increasing tps a bit more here, from what I saw your LL tps was almost the same as F2L tps. Also get better algs, for example F (triple sexy) F' can be done in a better (IMO) way as R U2 R' U' sexy R U' R'. Drill all OLLs to increase tps
> 
> ...



Yeah, as long as I have been speedcubing have I been postphoning drilling of LL algs..  I don't know why. I alsways figured the most was to gain in my F2L.



kunparekh18 said:


> EDIT: also, what I think ideal splits for a sub-20 solver are is 3-10-3-3, compare yours with that and work on the part which needs most improvement



Ah... mine is 4, 16, 4, 4.. makes 28 although I average 26 now.. I think the 16 is closer to 15


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## sneaklyfox (Jul 26, 2013)

kunparekh18 said:


> for example F (triple sexy) F' can be done in a better (IMO) way as R U2 R' U' sexy R U' R'.



I tried both of those before but now I prefer (U) R' U' R U' R' U R U' R' U2 R... just a variation of the latter one above because I prefer R' U R U' for sexy move as opposed the normal R U R' U'.


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## pipkiksass (Jul 26, 2013)

sneaklyfox said:


> I tried both of those before but now I prefer (U) R' U' R U' R' U R U' R' U2 R... just a variation of the latter one above because I prefer R' U R U' for sexy move as opposed the normal R U R' U'.



I do the inverse (?) of that - R U R' U R U' R' U R U2 R'. It's COLL for the case where top and bottom are pairs (this), and very trickable. I guess if you like inverse sexy, you'd prefer the inverse alg, but for those who do 'traditional' sexy, this alg might flow easier?


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## sneaklyfox (Jul 26, 2013)

pipkiksass said:


> I do the inverse (?) of that - R U R' U R U' R' U R U2 R'. It's COLL for the case where top and bottom are pairs (this), and very trickable. I guess if you like inverse sexy, you'd prefer the inverse alg, but for those who do 'traditional' sexy, this alg might flow easier?



You use COLL? I haven't learned any COLL algs yet. Yours is the inverse of kunparekh18's second alg. Haha... I'm inverse sexy as opposed to traditional sexy.


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## mark49152 (Jul 27, 2013)

MarcelP said:


> I have a few 55 mm's I don't really care for them. I like 57 mm Zhanchi's better. What was your average?


32.43 down from 33.61. The 55mm feels completely different to the 57mm - less clicky and very smooth. Could be KongShou's lube job.



pipkiksass said:


> I do the inverse (?) of that - R U R' U R U' R' U R U2 R'. It's COLL for the case where top and bottom are pairs (this), and very trickable. I guess if you like inverse sexy, you'd prefer the inverse alg, but for those who do 'traditional' sexy, this alg might flow easier?


Isn't that just the standard double sune OCLL?


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## pipkiksass (Jul 27, 2013)

sneaklyfox said:


> You use COLL? I haven't learned any COLL algs yet. Yours is the inverse of kunparekh18's second alg. Haha... I'm inverse sexy as opposed to traditional sexy.



No, I just know that one single COLL case! LOL

Is inverse just the alg backwards? I thought it might be R => R'; U' => U, etc. (i.e. prime becomes normal; normal becomes prime).

I'd love to learn more COLL, most of the algs are very fast, and my U and H PLLs particularly are fast, V is OK. They're probably sub 1, where most of my other PLLs range from 1-3 seconds. 

Is there a Winter Variation equivalent, kind of 'full edge control' - a set of algs to orient LL edges instead of corners when inserting F2L 4? If not, I might make one! I don't mind learning algs as much as some people, but there are a number of OLLs I don't know, because I've always hoped I could find a better method that would eliminate them!

I'm off to post about this elsewhere - I just wrote a post here, but it's going madly off-topic!!!



mark49152 said:


> 32.43 down from 33.61. The 55mm feels completely different to the 57mm - less clicky and very smooth. Could be KongShou's lube job.
> 
> 
> Isn't that just the standard double sune OCLL?



I have a 55mm from Kong as well, and I love it. As far as I was aware the 'standard' double sune OCLL was triple sexy. Every OCLL is a COLL case, by definition. I only know one for the double-sune case (this one), so I know when it comes up I'm getting an edges only PLL. anyway, off to post about substeps...


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## mark49152 (Jul 27, 2013)

pipkiksass said:


> I'd love to learn more COLL, most of the algs are very fast, and my U and H PLLs particularly are fast, V is OK. They're probably sub 1, where most of my other PLLs range from 1-3 seconds.


I learned a few of the shorter COLLs for Pi and H because they are easy to recognise. I agree, they are fun, and I like the chance of an EPLL skip 



pipkiksass said:


> Is there a Winter Variation equivalent, kind of 'full edge control' - a set of algs to orient LL edges instead of corners when inserting F2L 4? If not, I might make one! I don't mind learning algs as much as some people, but there are a number of OLLs I don't know, because I've always hoped I could find a better method that would eliminate them!


Yes - VHLS if you want to set up your pair first or ZBLS if you want to start from any F2L case. Obviously VHLS has many fewer algs but consensus seems to be that it's not really worthwhile. I messed about with it for a while and decided that I'd be better off avoiding complication and just focusing on regular F2L and lookahead..



pipkiksass said:


> As far as I was aware the 'standard' double sune OCLL was triple sexy. Every OCLL is a COLL case, by definition. I only know one for the double-sune case (this one), so I know when it comes up I'm getting an edges only PLL. anyway, off to post about substeps...


"Standard" double sune in that it is just two sunes in a row, with some cancellation. Thus I finger it just like I finger my sunes.


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## pipkiksass (Jul 27, 2013)

mark49152 said:


> Yes - VHLS if you want to set up your pair first or ZBLS if you want to start from any F2L case. Obviously VHLS has many fewer algs but consensus seems to be that it's not really worthwhile. I messed about with it for a while and decided that I'd be better off avoiding complication and just focusing on regular F2L and lookahead..



Shame. I thought this had some promise. I guess it depends how much hassle the algs are. I often feel there's not enough to do with last F2L pair, but I guess partial edge control might be more worthwhile? The numbers look good anyway - by my reckoning 1/328 chance of a full LL skip, rather than 1/15,552! 



mark49152 said:


> "Standard" double sune in that it is just two sunes in a row, with some cancellation. Thus I finger it just like I finger my sunes.



Oh, I see. :fp


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## sneaklyfox (Jul 27, 2013)

pipkiksass said:


> Is inverse just the alg backwards? I thought it might be R => R'; U' => U, etc. (i.e. prime becomes normal; normal becomes prime).
> 
> I have a 55mm from Kong as well, and I love it. As far as I was aware the 'standard' double sune OCLL was triple sexy. Every OCLL is a COLL case, by definition. I only know one for the double-sune case (this one), so I know when it comes up I'm getting an edges only PLL. anyway, off to post about substeps...



Yes, I thought inverse is the alg backwards, but also follows like what you just said. R => R'; U' => U. So sexy R U R' U' would have U R U' R' as the inverse as opposed to R' U' R U. To take another example, here's standard T-perm:
R U R' U' R' F R2 U' R' U' R U R' F'

Inverse T-perm does the same thing. (F R U' R' U R U R2 F' R U R U' R')
But your definition of "inverse" does some other weird thing. (R' U' R U R F' R2 U R U R' U' R F)

I had a 55mm Zhanchi before the 57mm and it really is much different. I got mine from Fasttech though. It's much smoother while the bigger one is clickier.


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## mark49152 (Jul 27, 2013)

pipkiksass said:


> Shame. I thought this had some promise. I guess it depends how much hassle the algs are. I often feel there's not enough to do with last F2L pair, but I guess partial edge control might be more worthwhile? The numbers look good anyway - by my reckoning 1/328 chance of a full LL skip, rather than 1/15,552!


Well yeah it's not all bad, I didn't mean to sound so negative! Some of them are easy. The point is that if you spend any time at all on recognition or hesitation you wipe out any advantage you get from just slamming in that last pair. Bear in mind that with VHLS you've already done most of the work to set up the pair, so is the VHLS alg any faster than just slamming it in and doing FRUR'U'F' etc., with not a blink of hesitation?

ZBLS might be more worthwhile but there's lots of it. Makes more sense for the harder F2L cases like stuck pairs that would take ~11 moves to solve anyway.

Most of these alg sets seem to offer something of interest and personally I don't see a problem with having a bit of fun with them and selectively learning a few of the easier or more beneficial algs from each set. Like OLL, you don't have to learn them all, it can still be useful to know just a few COLLs or ZBLSs and it's fun to have a bit of variation in your solves.

Here's an idea I came up with a while ago to use a small number of the easiest VHLS algs to get to a subset of OLL cases - either a bar case, or if the set is applied to different cases, to an OCLL or dot. The purpose being to reduce the number of OLLs to learn. I should have called it LazyLS


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## kunparekh18 (Jul 27, 2013)

For the double sune/antisune OLL, 

if you have bars on the top and bottom use F triplesexy F'
if you have bars on the right and left use any 2gen alg
if you have just 1 bar on the top/bottom, bring it to the right and do R U R' U R U L' U R' U' L

if you have just 1 bar on the left right, bring it to the bottom, (alg is long, learn only if you want), do
F R U' R' U R U2 R' U' sexy F'

Inverse of the last 2 cases are also good Pi COLLs


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## IanTheCuber (Jul 27, 2013)

Here's a really long but amazing N perm:

R U R' U R U R' F' (R U R' U' R' F R2 U' R') U2 R U' R'


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## sneaklyfox (Jul 27, 2013)

IanTheCuber said:


> Here's a really long but amazing N perm:
> 
> R U R' U R U R' F' (R U R' U' R' F R2 U' R') U2 R U' R'



In other words
R U R' U (setup moves) [J-perm] U' R U' R' (undo setup moves)


----------



## Username (Jul 27, 2013)

IanTheCuber said:


> Here's a really long but amazing N perm:
> 
> R U R' U R U R' F' (R U R' U' R' F R2 U' R') U2 R U' R'



Old


----------



## pipkiksass (Jul 27, 2013)

Back on topic (;-)) - Marcel, how are you getting on with the Weilong? I can't decide if I should get one... I really need to stop buying cubes!


----------



## sneaklyfox (Jul 28, 2013)

pipkiksass said:


> Back on topic (;-)) - Marcel, how are you getting on with the Weilong? I can't decide if I should get one... I really need to stop buying cubes!



Then decide not to get one and then you won't be buying another cube. 

I think Marcel loves the WeiLong. I still like my ShuangRen better so it still comes down to personal preference.
@pipkiksass: What's your main right now and what kind of feeling do you like? Smooth? Clicky? Fast?


----------



## ben1996123 (Jul 28, 2013)

this

also this


----------



## kunparekh18 (Jul 28, 2013)

ben1996123 said:


> this
> 
> also this



Hahaha


----------



## MarcelP (Jul 28, 2013)

pipkiksass said:


> Back on topic (;-)) - Marcel, how are you getting on with the Weilong? I can't decide if I should get one... I really need to stop buying cubes!



You should definitely buy one. They are real cheap. Like 8$ at Fasttech or Wallbuys. My main is a Weilong at the moment. I set a new Ao100 this week. It is pure awesomeness. The thing with Weilongs is that when tensions are too loose it will become uncontrolable fast. With tensions real tight, and a lot of lube it is really fast, controllable and no lockups. IMHO the best cube ever made...


----------



## mark49152 (Jul 28, 2013)

ben1996123 said:


> this
> 
> also this



This


----------



## YddEd (Jul 28, 2013)

mark49152 said:


> This


This


----------



## mark49152 (Jul 28, 2013)

MarcelP said:


> You should definitely buy one. They are real cheap. Like 8$ at Fasttech or Wallbuys. My main is a Weilong at the moment. I set a new Ao100 this week. It is pure awesomeness. The thing with Weilongs is that when tensions are too loose it will become uncontrolable fast. With tensions real tight, and a lot of lube it is really fast, controllable and no lockups. IMHO the best cube ever made...


Are all your screws straight? I never got mine totally straight and I wonder if that's why my WL is a bit locky.


----------



## MarcelP (Jul 28, 2013)

No, not really straight. Strange. None of my Weilongs are locky..


----------



## pipkiksass (Jul 29, 2013)

MarcelP said:


> No, not really straight. Strange. None of my Weilongs are locky..



This is what attracts me: occasionally (normally on a really good solve where I glance at the clock and see things are going well) I'll lock up REALLY badly on a LL alg. A few times I've been c.12 seconds after OLL, and ended up barely sub-20, where I should've had a 14/15 second solve, all because I panic and lock up. I'm always happy to have a sub-20 solve, but it's frustrating in cases like that which should've been so much better.

I'm past the stage of thinking a cube will make me faster, but I also acknowledge that my turning accuracy is pretty terrible, especially when I'm not 100% concentrating, or when I'm thinking about times. If a cube can help compensate for this a little then that's a good thing, right? ;-)


----------



## sneaklyfox (Jul 29, 2013)

pipkiksass said:


> This is what attracts me: occasionally (normally on a really good solve where I glance at the clock and see things are going well) I'll lock up REALLY badly on a LL alg. A few times I've been c.12 seconds after OLL, and ended up barely sub-20, where I should've had a 14/15 second solve, all because I panic and lock up. I'm always happy to have a sub-20 solve, but it's frustrating in cases like that which should've been so much better.
> 
> I'm past the stage of thinking a cube will make me faster, but I also acknowledge that my turning accuracy is pretty terrible, especially when I'm not 100% concentrating, or when I'm thinking about times. If a cube can help compensate for this a little then that's a good thing, right? ;-)



Solution: Don't look at the timer. If you use qqtimer (which I do) for example, make timer updating to "off".


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## MarcelP (Jul 29, 2013)

sneaklyfox said:


> Solution: Don't look at the timer. If you use qqtimer (which I do) for example, make timer updating to "off".


Yes, that is the best solution I think 



pipkiksass said:


> This is what attracts me: occasionally (normally on a really good solve where I glance at the clock and see things are going well) I'll lock up REALLY badly on a LL alg. A few times I've been c.12 seconds after OLL, and ended up barely sub-20, where I should've had a 14/15 second solve, all because I panic and lock up. I'm always happy to have a sub-20 solve, but it's frustrating in cases like that which should've been so much better.
> 
> I'm past the stage of thinking a cube will make me faster, but I also acknowledge that my turning accuracy is pretty terrible, especially when I'm not 100% concentrating, or when I'm thinking about times. If a cube can help compensate for this a little then that's a good thing, right? ;-)



Well, one of the best things about Weilong for me is that the last layer is very fluent. I think a Weilong will help you make you faster.  Just get one.


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## MarcelP (Jul 29, 2013)

Just broke my Ao12 PB..! And I have not been solving 3 X 3 for speed at all for a few days.. These where the first 12 (and only) solves of today.



Spoiler



Rubik's cube
Jul 29, 2013 7:16:51 PM - 7:26:49 PM

Mean: 23.42
Average: 23.47
Best time: 20.09
Median: 23.25
Worst time: 26.20
Standard deviation: 1.86

Best average of 5: 22.29
8-12 - 22.56 (25.50) 21.85 22.46 (20.09)

Best average of 12: 23.47
1-12 - 24.59 23.93 25.76 (26.20) 21.39 22.15 24.53 22.56 25.50 21.85 22.46 (20.09)

1. 24.59 D U F2 L2 F2 U R2 D L2 F2 U2 R' L D' B D2 B D' F L2 F2 D'
2. 23.93 U2 B2 D R2 B2 U R2 F2 U B2 U R D2 B2 L2 F' D L2 B2 R B' L'
3. 25.76 R2 L2 F2 D B2 R2 L2 D2 L2 D' R2 F R' U2 F2 D L' D B L F U'
4. 26.20 B2 U' L2 U L2 B2 R2 U L2 U B' U' R2 F R F U2 F' D' F'
5. 21.39 R2 B2 U2 F2 L2 F2 D F2 L2 F2 D B' U B' F L U2 R F' D' R2 F
6. 22.15 B2 D2 B2 D' R2 F2 U L2 B2 U B' L' B L' B F' U' F2 L U2
7. 24.53 D F2 L2 F2 D R2 U2 F2 R2 B2 U F' L' B' D B2 U2 R F U2 B' U
8. 22.56 D L2 D' B2 R2 L2 D2 L2 U' R2 U' R F D' R2 D2 L D' R B D' U2
9. 25.50 B2 D2 U F2 D R2 F2 R2 U' B2 D L B D' F U2 R2 U' B U2 B2 U'
10. 21.85 R2 D2 F2 U2 F2 U' B2 L2 D2 R2 U F L B' U R2 F D R B2
11. 22.46 U' B2 F2 L2 U2 B2 D' R2 U' F2 D B' D2 R B2 F R B' F U' F' U'
12. 20.09 B2 L2 F2 L2 U B2 L2 D2 B2 U' F2 R D2 U' B U2 B L2 F L B' D'


----------



## sneaklyfox (Jul 29, 2013)

Nice, Marcel! Wait 'til you're warmed up now.


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## mark49152 (Jul 29, 2013)

Nice - what was your PB before?


----------



## MarcelP (Jul 29, 2013)

mark49152 said:


> Nice - what was your PB before?



23.9X So it's quite a difference.. I am quite pleased. I am doing nothing but BLD and OH training lately and I was worrying that my times would drop. It seems I need to do less 3 X 3 speedsolves to get faster. LOL



sneaklyfox said:


> Nice, Marcel! Wait 'til you're warmed up now.



Well I did a few more. I had one extraordinaory solve but fell right back in bad times (26 - 29)
20. 17.71 D' B2 U' R2 D R2 D B2 U' B2 D R U2 B2 U B R F U R' U2


----------



## mark49152 (Jul 29, 2013)

How is the BLD going?


----------



## MarcelP (Jul 30, 2013)

mark49152 said:


> How is the BLD going?



Quite good. I never had a success though. But I have had quite a few successes without the memo part. Instead of memo I write down my solution and then solve blind. It was hard to master setup moves and undo set up moves. Now I will start to focus on what memo method to use. BLD is a lot of fun so far.


----------



## sneaklyfox (Jul 30, 2013)

MarcelP said:


> Quite good. I never had a success though. But I have had quite a few successes without the memo part. Instead of memo I write down my solution and then solve blind. It was hard to master setup moves and undo set up moves. Now I will start to focus on what memo method to use. BLD is a lot of fun so far.



I did a few like that too. I think I didn't want to spend all that brain power memorizing something when I wasn't sure I could execute correctly. First get used to the execution part with setups and undo setups and then move to the memorization... that was my thinking as well. But I'm really not into BLD. If you practice, I'm sure you'll be much better than I am. I think I've had 4 successes so far but it takes me a long time. I've never timed myself but I think my first time was something like 15 minutes more or less haha. My memory is horrible. The only exception comes to memorizing music but I forget everything else.


----------



## MarcelP (Jul 30, 2013)

My train ride to work is 1.5 hour. About a month ago it took me about the whole ride to solve one cube with my eyes open. Now I do about one every 10 minutes. It is that thinking about set ups en undo set ups takes less and less time.. I really want to be able to do BLD so that I can join BLD on a WCA comp. So next step is memo. And my memory is also terrible.. Right now memorizing 3 egdes takes me one minute... LOL If anyone has a hint to where I can read the best memo menthod for stupid people like me.. please tell me.


----------



## mark49152 (Jul 30, 2013)

Sounds like fun. Are you still doing FMC too?


----------



## MarcelP (Jul 30, 2013)

mark49152 said:


> Sounds like fun. Are you still doing FMC too?



Yes, but FMC is really hard. So in the weekly competition I still try the one hour every week. It has been quite a while since I had no DNF


----------



## sneaklyfox (Jul 30, 2013)

MarcelP said:


> My train ride to work is 1.5 hour. About a month ago it took me about the whole ride to solve one cube with my eyes open. Now I do about one every 10 minutes. It is that thinking about set ups en undo set ups takes less and less time.. I really want to be able to do BLD so that I can join BLD on a WCA comp. So next step is memo. And my memory is also terrible.. Right now memorizing 3 egdes takes me one minute... LOL If anyone has a hint to where I can read the best memo menthod for stupid people like me.. please tell me.



There are different methods for memo like roman rooms, journey method, letter pairs, visual, audio... I think the easiest for me is letter pairs so that's what I use and I just make up a word for it. The common system for lettering each sticker is called Speffz. I actually use my own system although I haven't done much memo and I'm always dreaming about a better method for personal use. (Like I said, I have bad memory with the exception of music so I always thought if I could transform each sticker to its own tone or something along those lines I could memorize a sequence of notes better than letters or numbers.) If you like images, you can recall an image also using the same letter pair idea. The good thing about doing it in pairs is that you can very easily tell whether you have parity or not.


----------



## MarcelP (Jul 30, 2013)

sneaklyfox said:


> There are different methods for memo like roman rooms, journey method, letter pairs, visual, audio... I think the easiest for me is letter pairs so that's what I use and I just make up a word for it. The common system for lettering each sticker is called Speffz. I actually use my own system although I haven't done much memo and I'm always dreaming about a better method for personal use. (Like I said, I have bad memory with the exception of music so I always thought if I could transform each sticker to its own tone or something along those lines I could memorize a sequence of notes better than letters or numbers.) If you like images, you can recall an image also using the same letter pair idea. The good thing about doing it in pairs is that you can very easily tell whether you have parity or not.



Awesome.. I just tried corners only on the FMC scramble from the weekly 31 (B2 U' F2 D F2 U B2 F2 D U' F2 L F R' D' B' U2 L' B D' R') MQ IP TL SP Whhooohoo.. Super easy to remember and all corners where solved.. The first P (in IP) was breaking a new cycle..

Another question Melody, didn't we reply in a topic from HKNow store about a new puzzle Gan III or something? I can't seem to find it..


----------



## sneaklyfox (Jul 31, 2013)

MarcelP said:


> Awesome.. I just tried corners only on the FMC scramble from the weekly 31 (B2 U' F2 D F2 U B2 F2 D U' F2 L F R' D' B' U2 L' B D' R') MQ IP TL SP Whhooohoo.. Super easy to remember and all corners where solved.. The first P (in IP) was breaking a new cycle..
> 
> Another question Melody, didn't we reply in a topic from HKNow store about a new puzzle Gan III or something? I can't seem to find it..



I don't remember all that I said in the Gans III thread. I just know I made a joke comment about the octopus core.


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## MarcelP (Jul 31, 2013)

sneaklyfox said:


> I don't remember all that I said in the Gans III thread. I just know I made a joke comment about the octopus core.



Ok, so I am not going crazy. The topic seem to have disapeared....


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## mark49152 (Jul 31, 2013)

Yes mysterious - that thread is gone...


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## MarcelP (Jul 31, 2013)

Okay, I am really improving after a 6 months plateau..  I did an Ao100 and broke some records:



Spoiler



Mean: 25.67
Average: 25.63
Best time: 17.02
Median: 25.03
Worst time: 37.53
Standard deviation: 3.76

Best average of 5: 21.82
45-49 - 21.91 22.35 (24.77) (19.73) 21.20

Best average of 12: 22.99
62-73 - 19.81 19.85 24.02 23.67 23.57 (17.02) 25.03 23.17 23.14 23.20 24.39 (29.87)



Some of the good solves from this session:


Spoiler



21.31 D2 B2 U L2 U F2 R2 B2 L2 U F2 L D F2 D' F' L D' U' B U R'
21.96 L2 D2 F2 U' R2 U' F2 D R2 B2 U' F R F2 D2 R U2 F L' U L2 U2
29.52 D F2 L2 U' L2 U R2 U2 R2 L2 U' F' D L' F' U R B2 L' D2 B'
21.91 R2 B2 D U2 F2 R2 D F2 U' R2 D F' D L2 U2 F R2 D U' R U'
22.35 L2 F2 R2 D2 F2 U' F2 L2 D B2 R' B F2 U' B2 D' B D' F U'
24.77 F2 L2 B2 L2 D R2 U2 F2 R2 F2 D' L F R2 D R2 D2 L2 F2 R2 B D'
19.73 U2 B2 R2 D L2 D2 R2 F2 D' F2 R2 B' D' B R' D2 L' D R' U'


[video=youtube_share;IXumMqKLMmI]http://youtu.be/IXumMqKLMmI[/video]


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## mark49152 (Jul 31, 2013)

Nice one Marcel - what do you think led to your improvement? Any particular practice regime?


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## sneaklyfox (Aug 1, 2013)

Nice!


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## Lchu613 (Aug 1, 2013)

Hey Marcel, just how much faster would a Weilong be than a Fangshi at similar tensions (cutting-wise)?


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## MarcelP (Aug 1, 2013)

Lchu613 said:


> Hey Marcel, just how much faster would a Weilong be than a Fangshi at similar tensions (cutting-wise)?



Well, I try to do as many Ao5's to get the competition feeling. With the Weilong I get many sub 25's. With the ShuangRen I hardly get sub 26.. And with my best Zhanchi I am stuck around 26-29 secs..



mark49152 said:


> Nice one Marcel - what do you think led to your improvement? Any particular practice regime?



I think it is the better cube.. Also I might have a slight better lookahead


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## Kattenvriendin (Aug 1, 2013)

Wow nice Marcel! I wonder what that Weilong feels like alright  (no I am not buying one, I am going to try yours at Amstelveen lol)


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## MarcelP (Aug 1, 2013)

Kattenvriendin said:


> Wow nice Marcel! I wonder what that Weilong feels like alright  (no I am not buying one, I am going to try yours at Amstelveen lol)



And the Gan III is sent out today  You will see that one to (if I like it a bit)..  LOL, you are missing out on the fun cubes now.. The ShuangRen II (in original color) seems like a must have cube too..


----------



## mark49152 (Aug 1, 2013)

I've been doing lots of swapping between cubes recently, and I find that my smoothest solves are on...... the ShuangRen! Second place to ZC55. So I guess it's all down to personal taste or style, plus tensions and lube, plus screw alignment. I lock and fumble more with WeiLong.

Edit: good news that GanIII is shipping, I shall place my order now!


----------



## YddEd (Aug 1, 2013)

Remember to tell us if it's 20% cooler/10x better than the MoYu Huanying or not.


----------



## MarcelP (Aug 1, 2013)

YddEd said:


> Remember to tell us if it's 20% cooler/10x better than the MoYu Huanying or not.



Yeah, I will make a short video as usual, just so you can have a taste of it 




mark49152 said:


> Second place to ZC55.



I use the Zhanci 55 mm for OH. Much better than the 54.7 mm ShuangRen. But that might because I totally suck at OH and have a very incorrect turn style. 



mark49152 said:


> Edit: good news that GanIII is shipping, I shall place my order now!


Yeah. I am curious about this one..


----------



## Kattenvriendin (Aug 1, 2013)

MarcelP said:


> And the Gan III is sent out today  You will see that one to (if I like it a bit)..  LOL, you are missing out on the fun cubes now.. The ShuangRen II (in original color) seems like a must have cube too..



Missing out? Like heck  Got me the L and X cube here and creating an evil twins.. now those are all FUN cubes!

Oh that Gan lol best ever, yeah right. Eerst zien dan geloven zei blinde Maupie


----------



## MarcelP (Aug 1, 2013)

Kattenvriendin said:


> Missing out? Like heck  Got me the L and X cube here and creating an evil twins.. now those are all FUN cubes!
> 
> Oh that Gan lol best ever, yeah right. Eerst zien dan geloven zei blinde Maupie



I just watched a video of the Gan III. Looks pretty decent


----------



## Schmidt (Aug 1, 2013)

As this has turned into the most popular off-topic topic, I might aswell write this here:
A month or so ago I thought I was adicted to cubes. I'm not so sure anymore. Some days I don't even solve a cube, let alone time some solves. I'm not even envious of all the new cubes Marcel is buying. 
So when the results of round 30 of race to sub 25 thread is written, it will be closed, handed over or non-maintained. The same goes for my 4219.5 marathon.
I will probably still compete in the weekly competion, but I can already see my times are getting worse (for 3x3x3 at least).
@MarcelP: It won't be long now before you can beat me in a B.O.T.A. ao50


----------



## MarcelP (Aug 1, 2013)

Schmidt said:


> As this has turned into the most popular off-topic topic, I might aswell write this here:
> A month or so ago I thought I was adicted to cubes. I'm not so sure anymore. Some days I don't even solve a cube, let alone time some solves. I'm not even envious of all the new cubes Marcel is buying.
> So when the results of round 30 of race to sub 25 thread is written, it will be closed, handed over or non-maintained. The same goes for my 4219.5 marathon.
> I will probably still compete in the weekly competion, but I can already see my times are getting worse (for 3x3x3 at least).
> @MarcelP: It won't be long now before you can beat me in a B.O.T.A. ao50



I hope that time for me that I will not be addicted to cube will not come any time soon. In fact, I love it more every day. I am already exploring options about attending international competitons. Exept my wife is not to keen on that  I am glad you do a few more rounds so I might graduate in the sub 25 race. And my guess is that aft you get bored with the computer game will bget back to being 100 % addicted.. LOL now that in fact I am getting closer to your times, it will be no fun if you get slower.


----------



## pipkiksass (Aug 3, 2013)

Schmidt said:


> As this has turned into the most popular off-topic topic, I might aswell write this here:
> A month or so ago I thought I was adicted to cubes. I'm not so sure anymore. Some days I don't even solve a cube, let alone time some solves. I'm not even envious of all the new cubes Marcel is buying.
> So when the results of round 30 of race to sub 25 thread is written, it will be closed, handed over or non-maintained. The same goes for my 4219.5 marathon.
> I will probably still compete in the weekly competion, but I can already see my times are getting worse (for 3x3x3 at least).
> @MarcelP: It won't be long now before you can beat me in a B.O.T.A. ao50



Thanks for doing the race to 25 Schmidt, it really helped me because I was so far off being sub-20 when I scraped through the race to 30. 

It's a shame to hear you're hanging up your cube. I'm in the same boat as Marcel, I love it more every day. I had a cube years ago, and solved it using a beginner's method. I never really timed myself, just used to solve over and over for hours at a time. I remember counting moves, and trying to get a sub-100 turn solve (STM), which almost never happened.

When I discovered speedcubing, in December last year, I was instantly hooked. I don't know if there's been a day since when I haven't picked up a cube at all. I'm pretty sure there has only been one, if any. Unlike video games, and pretty much every other hobby I've ever entertained, for some reason cubing just never seems to get old for me. I think if you place too much emphasis on progress, it could get frustrating, but I'm in no rush to get faster. 

I'm fortunate that recently I've had a bit of progress and have moved from about a 24 average to about 22 - those elusive sub-20 solves are becoming more regular, but still rare! I think if I can improve then anyone can. I don't practice anywhere near as 'well' as I should, I just solve solve solve. 

Don't worry about your times Schmidt - they are probably getting worse because you're worried about them getting worse. Maybe handing over the 25 thread will take some pressure off you, and allow you to enjoy cubing again. IMHO, progress only happens when you're enjoying it. I stressed about being stuck at 28 seconds for ages, and it took me longer to get from 28 to sub-25 than it has for me to get from just sub-25 to 21/22. This is purely because I felt like I HAD to progress from 28 seconds, now any improvement is just a cool thing that happens.

I hope you recover your cube-mojo anyhow. Thanks again for running the race to 25.

Pip

P.S. - I just posted this on the accomplishment thread, but it's my favourite cubing accomplishment yet - 19.05 with a mis-inserted F2L pair! No idea how fast it would have been without the mis-insert, but I managed to fix it and still stop the timer under 20 seconds. I was so happy you'd have thought I'd just beaten the world record!!!


----------



## sneaklyfox (Aug 3, 2013)

Schmidt said:


> As this has turned into the most popular off-topic topic, I might aswell write this here:
> A month or so ago I thought I was adicted to cubes. I'm not so sure anymore. Some days I don't even solve a cube, let alone time some solves. I'm not even envious of all the new cubes Marcel is buying.
> So when the results of round 30 of race to sub 25 thread is written, it will be closed, handed over or non-maintained. The same goes for my 4219.5 marathon.
> I will probably still compete in the weekly competion, but I can already see my times are getting worse (for 3x3x3 at least).
> @MarcelP: It won't be long now before you can beat me in a B.O.T.A. ao50



Yes, as pipkiksass said... thanks very much, Schmidt! I've really benefited from the threads you've maintained like the sub-25 thread and the 4219.5 marathon which I've used to help motivate me in my practice for several events already! I will be sad that you won't be maintaining those anymore and wonder if anyone is going to take over. I've thought about taking over the sub-25 thread but think I'm a little too busy for that. Maybe after you lose your cubing addiction, you'll come back to it eventually. It's like Maskow trying to quit cubing and then not long after he comes back full speed breaking WRs with multi-blind haha. And... well... if you don't come back to loving cubes like you did before, that's ok too. There are plenty of more important things in life. Do whatever you enjoy. Personally, I know I am not as obsessive/crazy about cubes as I was when I first discovered speedcubing and found my times dropping so quickly from my outdated beginner's method with a Rubik's brand... those days are behind me now. I reached my first goal (sub-30) and second goal (sub-20), and have a pretty decent official ranking which is plenty for someone at my stage of life. Now I'm just happy if I see a little progress even if it's very slow. I still love cubes though and enjoy it everyday.


----------



## MarcelP (Aug 3, 2013)

Don' t worry guys.. He is just so let down by the fact that I am sneaking up on his times (beat him in weekly nr 30. 3X3X3) LOL!. He will find his mojo again..


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## Lchu613 (Aug 3, 2013)

Cubing mojo. I like that.


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## ThomasJE (Aug 3, 2013)

Haha...

Anyway, nice going Marcell! I did the same scrambles as in your recent Weilong video; here is a comparison between me and you:



Solve1234567TOTAL

MarcellP21.3121.9629.5221.9122.3524.7719.73161.55

ThomasJE25.3422.8623.6419.9517.6719.5327.94156.93

Fastest:MarcellPMarcellPThomasJEThomasJEThomasJEThomasJEMarcellPThomasJE

Diff. 4.03 0.90 5.88 1.96 4.68 5.24 8.21 4.62


So less than 5 seconds over 7 solves between the two of us. It's scary to think that less than a year ago I was twice as fast.


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## MarcelP (Aug 3, 2013)

ThomasJE said:


> Haha...
> 
> Anyway, nice going Marcell! I did the same scrambles as in your recent Weilong video; here is a comparison between me and you:
> 
> ...



LOL.. that's nice! Ha ha, do you remember reconstructing solves of mine when I was averaging over 45 seconds..  I am about 20 seconds faster now


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## ThomasJE (Aug 4, 2013)

MarcelP said:


> LOL.. that's nice! Ha ha, do you remember reconstructing solves of mine when I was averaging over 45 seconds..  I am about 20 seconds faster now



I do indeed. I haven't done any reconstructions for some time now. Did your 14.01 get reconstructed?


----------



## MarcelP (Aug 4, 2013)

ThomasJE said:


> I do indeed. I haven't done any reconstructions for some time now. Did your 14.01 get reconstructed?



No, in fact no. It's a lucky slove though..


----------



## ThomasJE (Aug 4, 2013)

MarcelP said:


> No, in fact no. It's a lucky slove though..



I'll try to do it now. It's been some time since I did one; let's hope I still know what to do


----------



## ThomasJE (Aug 4, 2013)

*MarcelP - 3x3 14.01 Single*



Spoiler: Video










R2 L2 F2 U' F2 D L2 F2 U F2 D2 R B' U2 F L' B D' B2 U F' U2

z2 // Inspection
R' F' R' F2 y R U' x' U2 x D2' // X-Cross
U y2' L' U L // F2L 2
U y L' U' L // F2L 3
U y' R' U2 R U2' R' U R // F2L 4
y' r y R U R' d' x R' F R U R' U' F' // OLL
View at alg.garron.us

Stats:

```
[B]Step	Time	HTM	HTPS	ETM	ETPS[/B]
[COLOR="#FF0000"]Total	14.01	36	2.57	45	3.21[/COLOR]
Cross+1	4.20	8	1.90	11	2.62
F2L	9.80	24	2.45	30	3.06
LL	4.21	12	2.85	15	3.56
					
[B]%          	Time	HTM	ETM[/B]		
Cross+1/F2L	42.9%	33.3%	36.7%		
F2L/Total	70.0%	66.7%	66.7%		
LL/Total	30.0%	33.3%	33.3%
```


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## MarcelP (Aug 4, 2013)

Thanks! still only slow TPS.. It felt like 5 TPS at least.. LOL..


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## ThomasJE (Aug 4, 2013)

MarcelP said:


> Thanks! still only slow TPS.. It felt like 5 TPS at least.. LOL..



Are you still doing your metronome training? If so, increasing the bpm will be good for increasing your TPS. Also, have you done drills like PLL and OLL time attacks? They will also help.


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## pipkiksass (Aug 4, 2013)

Wow, just picked up a Weilong for $8.82 from Fasttech. My first order from them, but that's crazily cheap, almost 1/2 the price of the next cheapest store. Even upgraded shipping slightly for an extra 70 cents. In total, my order came to (£6.43) 7.17 Euros!!!

Lookahead is still my single biggest problem, but if the Weilong helps reduce my PLL lockups then I'll be one step closer to sub-20.


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## Lchu613 (Aug 4, 2013)

How long would the shipping take for Fasttech to the U.S?


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## sneaklyfox (Aug 4, 2013)

Lchu613 said:


> How long would the shipping take for Fasttech to the U.S?



Not sure, but I live in Canada and I've ordered from fasttech a couple times before. They're awesome... best prices anywhere and free shipping! It took about a month for things to get here normally... with the upgraded shipping though it took less than 2 weeks.


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## pipkiksass (Aug 5, 2013)

sneaklyfox said:


> Not sure, but I live in Canada and I've ordered from fasttech a couple times before. They're awesome... best prices anywhere and free shipping! It took about a month for things to get here normally... with the upgraded shipping though it took less than 2 weeks.



Did you do the 'basic' upgraded shipping? At 70c/cube, it seems pretty good value - still about $5/6 less than anywhere else. If you're not worried about how long it takes (I'm more than happy with my 55mm Zhanchi for the moment), I can't see a down-side!


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## MarcelP (Aug 5, 2013)

pipkiksass said:


> Wow, just picked up a Weilong for $8.82 from Fasttech. My first order from them, but that's crazily cheap, almost 1/2 the price of the next cheapest store. Even upgraded shipping slightly for an extra 70 cents. In total, my order came to (£6.43) 7.17 Euros!!!
> 
> Lookahead is still my single biggest problem, but if the Weilong helps reduce my PLL lockups then I'll be one step closer to sub-20.



Your times will improve! I just tried to film a few sub 25 solves wih my zhanchi. No matter what I did I did not get below 27 secs. I picked my weilong and filmed an Ao12 24.xx Last layer is so smooth.. 

I also pick the extra 70 cents for transport. The shipments are lately always within 14 at my house.


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## sneaklyfox (Aug 5, 2013)

pipkiksass said:


> Did you do the 'basic' upgraded shipping? At 70c/cube, it seems pretty good value - still about $5/6 less than anywhere else. If you're not worried about how long it takes (I'm more than happy with my 55mm Zhanchi for the moment), I can't see a down-side!



I think that's "basic"... whichever is the cheapest upgrade. It was less than a dollar.

Edit: I've been switching between SR and WL every few dozen solves or something and although I still think SR is main, the WL is improving on me. Today I started with WL and got three 12.xx solves within 30 solves! I don't dislike the feeling as much as I did before although sometimes it still overshoots a bit and the layers slide if I do something weird.


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## MarcelP (Aug 7, 2013)

sneaklyfox said:


> I don't dislike the feeling as much as I did before although sometimes it still overshoots a bit and the layers slide if I do something weird.



I think you just need to tighten a little bit more..

My Weilong is flawless  Yesterday I had a 17.90 full step solve. I have a few new cubes on the way but I am pretty sure nothing will beat the Weilong. I just finished a PB Ao100: 

*WHooohooo.. *


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## Username (Aug 7, 2013)

Sub25!


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## ThomasJE (Aug 7, 2013)

Nice going! Also, how is the Weilong? I may get one for my Wallbuys competition win. Also, if you have a Fangshi ShuangRen 54mm, could you compare please?


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## MarcelP (Aug 7, 2013)

The Weilong is waaay better than the 54.6 Shuangren. The Shuangren has more lock ups. More corner twists. The Weilong is a cube you need to get used to since it is faster than a Zhanchi. So overshooting might be a problem in the beginning. But that is the only down side. The biggest plus of this cube is that it does not lock up. So last layer is very smooth (for me) compared to Zhanchi of Guhong.


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## sneaklyfox (Aug 7, 2013)

I don't have the 54.6 Shuangren but the 57 Shuangren doesn't corner twist on me. And actually the Weilong does still lock up for me sometimes.


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## ThomasJE (Aug 7, 2013)

MarcelP said:


> The Weilong is waaay better than the 54.6 Shuangren. The Shuangren has more lock ups. More corner twists. The Weilong is a cube you need to get used to since it is faster than a Zhanchi. So overshooting might be a problem in the beginning. But that is the only down side. The biggest plus of this cube is that it does not lock up. So last layer is very smooth (for me) compared to Zhanchi of Guhong.



Ok. I think I need a faster cube; my Zhanchi is fast straight after I clean it, but it slows soon after.



sneaklyfox said:


> I don't have the 54.6 Shuangren but the 57 Shuangren doesn't corner twist on me. And actually the Weilong does still lock up for me sometimes.



Are the lockups occasional?


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## Lchu613 (Aug 7, 2013)

Just how much faster is the Weilong than a Shuang Ren?
I was wondering because I'm debating whether to get one or not, since I right now have an epic-ly modded Zhanchi that's quite a bit better than my SR, and I don't have any idea how the Weilong would compare to either.


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## sneaklyfox (Aug 7, 2013)

ThomasJE said:


> Are the lockups occasional?



Occasional. It could be due to getting used to the cube.


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## MarcelP (Aug 7, 2013)

Lchu613 said:


> Just how much faster is the Weilong than a Shuang Ren?



Not so much. It's the non locky part that makes the difference. My Milky Zhanchi is about same speed as my weilongs. But a lot more locky.


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## Lchu613 (Aug 7, 2013)

Interesting. You should try putting Shuang Ren springs in a Zhanchi, it's fantastic. And some CPM does a world of good.


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## sneaklyfox (Aug 9, 2013)

Today I got my first sub-10 single!!! 9.99 lol... I would've been so annoyed if it were 10.00. I haven't broken that PB single (previously 10.05) for over half a year...


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## Patrick M (Aug 9, 2013)

Grats sneaklyfox! I was surpised by your average etc that you hadnt had a sub 10 yet.


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## sneaklyfox (Aug 9, 2013)

Patrick M said:


> Grats sneaklyfox! I was surpised by your average etc that you hadnt had a sub 10 yet.



Thanks! Apparently you haven't had one yet either and you're not far off from me at all. The 10.05 previously was actually supposed to be sub-10 but the timer didn't stop the first time. It would've been a 9.7x I think. But I think today I also realized that I'm so used to practicing at relatively slow speeds for look ahead purpose that I don't really go full speed as fast as I can go. I got faster times when I tried just to go fast. Either that or today I was in the zone <10(1), <11(1), <12(4), <13(5)... this is a lot better than other days when I expect a few sub-13s at most.


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## MarcelP (Aug 9, 2013)

Nice! I doubt I will ever have a sub 10 solve.. Even in prepared solves I have a hard time getting sub 15. LOL! Great achievement Melody!


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## Patrick M (Aug 9, 2013)

Im not trying to take away from posting accomplishments in this thread, but i really think most anyone can do sub 15 single. Just lots of practice! And most people can achieve a sub 10 if they give it the additional time, or maybe have some luck. I will get it one day and then flip out of my chair in happiness

Also

15.05 avg 12 (yay)


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## MarcelP (Aug 9, 2013)

I hope you are right.. I practice enough.. LOL Maybe with a last layer skip or so


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## YddEd (Aug 9, 2013)

Patrick M said:


> Also
> 
> 15.05 avg 12 *(yay)*






^^ That?


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## Patrick M (Aug 9, 2013)

LOL. Maybe im a brony and just dont know it. Marcell you can do it!!!!


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## aceofspades98 (Aug 9, 2013)

Patrick M said:


> LOL. Maybe im a brony and just dont know it. Marcell you can do it!!!!



You should be a brony


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## YddEd (Aug 9, 2013)

aceofspades98 said:


> You should be a brony


+1


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## Patrick M (Aug 9, 2013)

5Bld and rosstheboss will be my inspiration...
Must...watch...ponies

...: seriously considering trying it x)


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## YddEd (Aug 9, 2013)

Patrick M said:


> 5Bld and rosstheboss will be my inspiration...
> Must...watch...ponies
> 
> ...: seriously considering trying it x)


If you do.. I would suggest starting here


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## sneaklyfox (Aug 9, 2013)

Patrick M said:


> Im not trying to take away from posting accomplishments in this thread, but i really think most anyone can do sub 15 single. Just lots of practice! And most people can achieve a sub 10 if they give it the additional time, or maybe have some luck. I will get it one day and then flip out of my chair in happiness
> 
> Also
> 
> 15.05 avg 12 (yay)



Easy for you to say when you're already there (sub-15 solves) or nearly there (sub-10 single). But I know what you're saying. Hope you get a sub-10 single soon.

And I'm always rooting for Marcel. GOGOGO MARCEL!


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## PeelingStickers (Aug 9, 2013)

On the topic of sub-10 singles, I hit a 10.02 yesterday. Would have been the most annoying solve ever if I hadn't already had a very lucky sub-10. Still extremely annoying though.


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## kunparekh18 (Aug 10, 2013)

I don'tthink I can ever sub-10 pb is 10.23 with extremely easy cross + f2l and pll skip


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## YddEd (Aug 10, 2013)

kunparekh18 said:


> I don'tthink I can ever sub-10 pb is 10.23 with extremely easy cross + f2l and pll skip


How about this scramble?
U' L2 U L2 U' R2 D B2 R2 B2 R2 D L2 B2 F L2 F' R D' R B2 U'


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## MarcelP (Aug 10, 2013)

YddEd said:


> How about this scramble?
> U' L2 U L2 U' R2 D B2 R2 B2 R2 D L2 B2 F L2 F' R D' R B2 U'



I had a 11.33 on the first try, so I know, ninja's like Kunparekh can easily sub 10 with that scramble.


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## kunparekh18 (Aug 10, 2013)

YddEd said:


> How about this scramble?
> U' L2 U L2 U' R2 D B2 R2 B2 R2 D L2 B2 F L2 F' R D' R B2 U'





MarcelP said:


> I had a 11.33 on the first try, so I know, ninja's like Kunparekh can easily sub 10 with that scramble.



If I would count PBs on lolscrambles my pb would be 7.xy, but what's the use

Edit: 5.35 first try, I suck, people around wr speed could easily sub-4.5 this I guess


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## YddEd (Aug 10, 2013)

Just got a 5.71 with that scramble XD


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## PeelingStickers (Aug 10, 2013)

I just got 5.55 on that scramble  tied with the WR >.>

34 move solution, fastest should be able to get ~10ps and probably sub 3.5 it o.o

my best was 4.76


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## kcl (Aug 10, 2013)

Lol 5.39 first try


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## Yellowsnow98 (Aug 11, 2013)

6.62.
Easiest scramble ever.


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## kcl (Aug 11, 2013)

Yellowsnow98 said:


> 6.62.
> Easiest scramble ever.



Nah make it with a PLL or LL skip and THEN it's easiest.


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## YddEd (Aug 11, 2013)

kclejeune said:


> Nah make it with a PLL or LL skip and THEN it's easiest.


Nope.
F
3
L
SKIP.


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## kcl (Aug 11, 2013)

YddEd said:


> Nope.
> F
> 3
> L
> SKIP.



Aka when non cubers claim they hold a world record? I say no. The easiest scramble would be the one earlier but with a LL skip


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## YddEd (Aug 11, 2013)

kclejeune said:


> Aka when non cubers claim they hold a world record? I say no. The easiest scramble would be the one earlier but with a LL skip


F3L skip. I'm pretty some people have gotten a scramble from a competition with a F3L skip.


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## MarcelP (Aug 11, 2013)

YddEd said:


> ..I'm pretty..



I am pretty too


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## YddEd (Aug 11, 2013)

MarcelP said:


> I'm ugly jk


Good thing I'm not ugly!


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## MarcelP (Aug 11, 2013)

So I played a bit with my Gans III yesterday evening. No timed solves. Maybe 100 hand scrambles. After that my Zhanchi felt really akward and big to solve. The Gans III is actually a great cube. I filmed my first 12 (timed) solves of today:

Not bad if you know I barely average 25 seconds and these stickers give me no look ahead.:


Spoiler



1. 24.23 F2 D R2 U' L2 B2 D' U2 R' B R F2 U2 L B U' B2 F U2
2. 27.11 U2 L2 D2 U' F2 D' B2 U' B2 U2 B2 L F' R2 D2 L F2 R2 F2 L2 U
3. 27.40 F2 U2 L2 U' L2 D F2 L2 D' F2 U2 R B' L' B' R' D2 B F' R' L
4. 25.83 B2 U' F2 U' L2 B2 F2 D' U2 R2 U2 R F U2 R L B2 L' B D L
5. 24.86 D B2 F2 D2 F2 U' F2 U B2 D' L2 F' U2 L B R U2 R' D2 R U2 L
6. 24.60 R2 B2 F2 D' F2 R2 U2 R2 U2 F2 U' R B' R U B2 F' L' B2 L2 F' U2
7. 26.79 D' R2 U' R2 U' B2 D2 R2 D2 U' R2 B' R B' F' D' R' L2 B F2 U' L
8. 28.29 L2 U' R2 B2 D2 B2 L2 D' B2 D' L2 F U' F2 R' U' B2 R2 L2 U B U'
9. 25.38 B2 U' R2 D L2 U2 B2 U2 F2 U L' F D' R2 U' F U R L' D2 U2
10. 24.21 R2 L2 U' F2 R2 F2 R2 L2 U' R2 F2 R' B2 D L' D' F' R U' R B U2
11. 27.56 L2 U' L2 U B2 D' U2 R2 B2 L2 F' L' D F R B D' R U2 B
12. 23.16 U2 L2 D' L2 U' F2 U R2 F2 R2 F L' D2 F U B' D' U' R' B'


[video=youtube_share;ClRiU_we0XA]http://youtu.be/ClRiU_we0XA[/video]

The cube is really loud. I thinking about filling the corners with construction glue. I am not really pleased to do that because it is absolutely the lightest cube I own. Hate to out weight to it. But the sound is really terrible.


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## kcl (Aug 11, 2013)

YddEd said:


> Good think I'm not ugly!



Videoz?


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## Username (Aug 11, 2013)

YddEd said:


> How about this scramble?
> U' L2 U L2 U' R2 D B2 R2 B2 R2 D L2 B2 F L2 F' R D' R B2 U'



3.97 2nd try... First try was sub 6 too but forgot the time already because I didn't write it


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## kcl (Aug 11, 2013)

kclejeune said:


> Videoz?



Wow I Quoted the wrong post..


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## sneaklyfox (Aug 11, 2013)

kclejeune said:


> Wow I Quoted the wrong post..



Wow, you quoted yourself...


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## kcl (Aug 11, 2013)

sneaklyfox said:


> Wow, you quoted yourself...



No my post before that. I meant it about the f3l skip


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## sneaklyfox (Aug 11, 2013)

kclejeune said:


> No my post before that. I meant it about the f3l skip



I know. But you did make a post where you quoted yourself. I don't think I've done that before.


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## kcl (Aug 11, 2013)

sneaklyfox said:


> I know. But you did make a post where you quoted yourself. I don't think I've done that before.



Not surprising. I do a lot of things people haven't done before.. I'm just weird like that.


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## sneaklyfox (Aug 11, 2013)

kclejeune said:


> Not surprising. I do a lot of things people haven't done before.. I'm just weird like that.



lol... I remember a time when I heard that comment ("You're weird!") quite often from many different people. But I don't recall what made them think that about me haha.


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## Yellowsnow98 (Aug 11, 2013)

kclejeune said:


> Not surprising. I do a lot of things people haven't done before.. I'm just weird like that.



Stop quoting yourself, stop quoting yourself.


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## kcl (Aug 11, 2013)

sneaklyfox said:


> lol... I remember a time when I heard that comment ("You're weird!") quite often from many different people. But I don't recall what made them think that about me haha.



Must be a musician thing hahaha


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## sneaklyfox (Aug 11, 2013)

kclejeune said:


> Must be a musician thing hahaha



Maybe. What do you play?


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## kcl (Aug 12, 2013)

sneaklyfox said:


> Maybe. What do you play?



French Horn, Violin, and the rest of the brass instruments. I can play viola and cello too but not very well..


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## slinky773 (Aug 12, 2013)

That's a lot of instruments… I play cello and clarinet mainly. I CAN play flute (not well) piano (somewhat) and… that's about it.


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## sneaklyfox (Aug 12, 2013)

kclejeune said:


> French Horn, Violin, and the rest of the brass instruments. I can play viola and cello too but not very well..



Very cool. I guess violin is my main then piano is secondary main. Played flute, bassoon, oboe, trombone, quena, and chimes as well. I could still play chimes and trombone if I needed to now. I think I would get confused trying to play cello because I'm so used to violin... high notes on the right, low notes on the left...


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## kcl (Aug 12, 2013)

sneaklyfox said:


> Very cool. I guess violin is my main then piano is secondary main. Played flute, bassoon, oboe, trombone, quena, and chimes as well. I could still play chimes and trombone if I needed to now. I think I would get confused trying to play cello because I'm so used to violin... high notes on the right, low notes on the left...



Yeah, I'm decent with percussion.. I haven't done any Reed instruments. French Horn has replaced violin as my main, since my violin teacher had a baby and moved almost an hour from where I live. It's life, I suppose..


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## kcl (Aug 12, 2013)

slinky773 said:


> That's a lot of instruments… I play cello and clarinet mainly. I CAN play flute (not well) piano (somewhat) and… that's about it.



It's because I don't do any sports haha.. The only real 'sport' I do is distance biking, because people don't believe that competitive yoyoing is a sport.. 
Sorry for double post but the app doesn't let me edit posts for some reason!


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## sneaklyfox (Aug 12, 2013)

kclejeune said:


> Yeah, I'm decent with percussion.. I haven't done any Reed instruments. French Horn has replaced violin as my main, since my violin teacher had a baby and moved almost an hour from where I live. It's life, I suppose..



I don't really call chimes (at least my type) "percussion" unless you also consider piano to be a percussion instrument as well. It's kind of like a big piano... not quite as many notes/bells as a carillon. A friend of mine played french horn. I never tried it myself though.

I'm not much into sports either though I was not too bad at badminton, enjoyed rock climbing, and was generally good playing defensive positions in team sports.


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## kcl (Aug 12, 2013)

sneaklyfox said:


> I don't really call chimes (at least my type) "percussion" unless you also consider piano to be a percussion instrument as well. It's kind of like a big piano... not quite as many notes/bells as a carillon. A friend of mine played french horn. I never tried it myself though.
> 
> I'm not much into sports either though I was not too bad at badminton, enjoyed rock climbing, and was generally good playing defensive positions in team sports.



Yeah my mom is a professional pianist and she calls it a percussion instrument, so I do too.. I'm not BAD at sports. I just don't love them.. I'm cool with most that aren't contact sports.


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## sneaklyfox (Aug 12, 2013)

kclejeune said:


> Yeah my mom is a professional pianist and she calls it a percussion instrument, so I do too.. I'm not BAD at sports. I just don't love them.. I'm cool with most that aren't contact sports.



Your mom's a professional pianist and you don't play piano??? Actually I thought it would have been fun to play football (normal contact style) where you'd have to actually tackle someone but they never let us at school... we always only played touch football and I thought that was boring. But yeah anyway, music's definitely my thing and sports isn't really. Us musicians... we're a different breed... that's why we're "weird".


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## kcl (Aug 12, 2013)

sneaklyfox said:


> Your mom's a professional pianist and you don't play piano??? Actually I thought it would have been fun to play football (normal contact style) where you'd have to actually tackle someone but they never let us at school... we always only played touch football and I thought that was boring. But yeah anyway, music's definitely my thing and sports isn't really. Us musicians... we're a different breed... that's why we're "weird".



It's very strange, I know. She's too far beyond the teaching level. Attempting to teach would make her frustrated, because the basics are automatic to her. My dad is a middle school choral director and also a fine pianist, but he works full time, so he can't teach. They decided to give me and my sister a choice of instrument, so we chose violin. Then I started French horn in middle school, and it became my main instrument because I prefer it and I played it better than violin after a year. So no piano for me.. I can dabble because I mix music but that's about it.. I don't care for football because the kids I've grown up with are *****ic, and I don't like the idea of being slammed into the ground. I don't see the point of bashing heads together and causing concussions. I know kids that have had like 5 concussions in the past year. And, smarter people tend to lean towards music. Not to say that jocks are exclusively dumb, I know some very smart but athletic people. But for the most part, people who choose music over sports are the type of people I like to hang around.


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## sneaklyfox (Aug 12, 2013)

kclejeune said:


> It's very strange, I know. She's too far beyond the teaching level. Attempting to teach would make her frustrated, because the basics are automatic to her. My dad is a middle school choral director and also a fine pianist, but he works full time, so he can't teach. They decided to give me and my sister a choice of instrument, so we chose violin. Then I started French horn in middle school, and it became my main instrument because I prefer it and I played it better than violin after a year. So no piano for me.. I can dabble because I mix music but that's about it.. I don't care for football because the kids I've grown up with are *****ic, and I don't like the idea of being slammed into the ground. I don't see the point of bashing heads together and causing concussions. I know kids that have had like 5 concussions in the past year. And, smarter people tend to lean towards music. Not to say that jocks are exclusively dumb, I know some very smart but athletic people. But for the most part, people who choose music over sports are the type of people I like to hang around.



Well I can sort of understand that about your mom. It's like I don't really like teaching violin... I'm better at teaching piano... but then again piano is easier than violin. Still... I don't know if one can be "too far beyond teaching level" to teach basics to your kids. Certainly there are people who teach because they aren't good enough to be professional. But there are also plenty of professional performers who teach as well. Maybe your mom just isn't one of those teaching types. It's like how they say really great performers don't necessarily make good teachers and great teachers don't necessarily make good performers. Some can be both. I think violin is one of the hardest instruments to learn. I found all the band instruments *easy* to pick up. Sorry, couldn't figure out the cryptic word you put in the middle. Well I would tend to agree that the average musician is probably smarter than the average jock... but I definitely don't think of athlete's as dumb just because they have sports interests and there are also musicians who are not really smart. Either way, sporty or musically-minded, I'm more annoyed with people who think they are smarter than they really are. You probably like hanging around people who choose music over sports because of common interest, not because the sporty ones are "too dumb for you to hang around".


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## kcl (Aug 12, 2013)

Not quoting because it will fill up too many pages. My mom has been playing piano for like 45 years now, and she isn't 50 for a few more years. She was accompanying for high school choirs when she was in second grade.. About sports and stuff. Yeah, I know a lot of smart athletes, I also know a ton of stupid athletes. That like to pick on the nerds like me and my friends. We don't care, but they aren't people we would pick to hang around. Some of my friends are very athletic too, though they all are big with music as well. So let me rephrase.. In MY school system, the general amount of kids who choose band over easier things are the smarter ones, with better grades. The people I know that are full out jock types often have mediocre grades and tend to slack off.. They also tend to be popular and often very rude. Not always though, there are nice ones too.


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## kcl (Aug 12, 2013)

I hate double posting but I blah. You and I basically see the same view on many things. I know a lot of athletes who are very cocky and pretend to be geniuses. They make me mad. I know less intelligent people in band also, but they just do band for an easy grade..


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## YddEd (Aug 12, 2013)

sneaklyfox said:


> music's definitely my thing and sports isn't really


Honestly I think I'm more interested about being a nerd


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## pipkiksass (Aug 12, 2013)

Just to play devil's advocate, although there clearly _are_ trends in terms of intelligence/intellect and choice of recreational activities, there are always counter-examples (as with any rule).

For example, I went to a very good university, one of the best in the world. That university has a very active (and equally heavily subscribed) rugby team, boxing club, brass band society, choral society, etc.. 

Perhaps not every jock is _pretending_ to be a genius. I'd argue that actually the level of confidence/arrogance that is required to succeed at team sports might make that person wear their intelligence in a different way to an equally intelligent band member, who might be more reserved about expressing their intellectual superiority. 

Equally, some of the best and most naturally talented musicians I know are not intellectually 'gifted'. Perhaps this is because they are more creatively-minded, and so do not excel at mathematics and sciences, which are often used as yardsticks in most educational systems, perhaps not. I think there is a point to be made that not all musical skill is learnt; a large part of musical ability comes from innate senses which one either has or doesn't have, and can't be taught. 

Ergo, some people will be musically talented from birth. Amongst these people, there will be more intelligent people and there will be less intelligent people. Some people will acquire musical talent through effort. The effort required to obtain these new skills means that the more hard-working and more motivated amongst school-age children are more likely to persist in hobbies such as music, and so become musically talented. Due to their hard-work at school, these children are likely to be amongst the more intelligent. 

These are just arguments, they're not necessarily my point of view, just throwing them out there. You shouldn't pass up an offer of friendship with an arrogant jock who claims to be a genius, he might just be the most interesting person you never met!


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## sneaklyfox (Aug 12, 2013)

kclejeune said:


> Not quoting because it will fill up too many pages. My mom has been playing piano for like 45 years now, and she isn't 50 for a few more years. She was accompanying for high school choirs when she was in second grade.. About sports and stuff. Yeah, I know a lot of smart athletes, I also know a ton of stupid athletes. That like to pick on the nerds like me and my friends. We don't care, but they aren't people we would pick to hang around. Some of my friends are very athletic too, though they all are big with music as well. So let me rephrase.. In MY school system, the general amount of kids who choose band over easier things are the smarter ones, with better grades. The people I know that are full out jock types often have mediocre grades and tend to slack off.. They also tend to be popular and often very rude. Not always though, there are nice ones too.



I understand about your mom. Playing piano came so naturally to her that it is very hard to teach someone the basics because you wonder yourself exactly how you do it. It's like that with me and violin since it sounds like your mom started learning piano at about the same age I started learning violin. It's too bad about the athletes in your school.



kclejeune said:


> I hate double posting but I blah. You and I basically see the same view on many things. I know a lot of athletes who are very cocky and pretend to be geniuses. They make me mad. I know less intelligent people in band also, but they just do band for an easy grade..



Well from your writing you seem quite intelligent and more mature than others your age so I appreciate that. Funny, but I'm more annoyed with the musicians than the athletes who think they're something great. Maybe because I'm not sporty myself so I can respect an athlete's superior physical prowess. If they have to also boast about intelligence then I think it's too bad they probably feel insecure. On the other hand, semi-intelligent people who explicitly show off that they are smarter than the less intelligent people make me angry. And when it comes to music especially, I'm more mad probably because it's my thing and I'm more critical of what's actually good and what some people _think_ is good. (Like, some performer thinks they are the awesomest and some other people think that person is really great too because they move around a lot with their body but when you close your eyes to listen to the performance it really is rather boring.) Of course, I usually keep my mouth shut unless someone asks for my honest opinion...



YddEd said:


> Honestly I think I'm more interested about being a nerd



Haha, yeah. Ever had people call you a "nerd" at school with the intention of annoying you ("nerd" as being akin to the opposite of "popular") and you thought it was a compliment?  I think when people age and mature they begin to realize that the nerds are going to come out on top in the end.


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## sneaklyfox (Aug 12, 2013)

pipkiksass said:


> Just to play devil's advocate, although there clearly _are_ trends in terms of intelligence/intellect and choice of recreational activities, there are always counter-examples (as with any rule).
> 
> For example, I went to a very good university, one of the best in the world. That university has a very active (and equally heavily subscribed) rugby team, boxing club, brass band society, choral society, etc..
> 
> ...



Oh yeah, I agree with you. I definitely recognize what you say. I don't like stereotypes and don't do that in person (label someone this or that). I guess how you measure intelligence is also something to be discussed. Like, now there are things like EQ (Emotional Quotient) and people even start measuring on specific abilities like creativity for example. You may be very good at languages but poor in math or vice versa. Usually it seems that the maths and sciences are used as the yardsticks, as you say. I don't think I would pass up an offer of friendship from anyone if I believed them to be sincere.

@pipkiksass: I'm rather curious now which university you attended...?
@kclejeune: I think you have a healthy pride in your mom which is nice to see. Parents of often proud of their kids and it's good to have it the other way around too.

Edit: I don't choose my friends based on intelligence. It doesn't really matter as long as we can talk, share, respect each other, etc.


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## kcl (Aug 12, 2013)

I don't just pass people up. I give everyone many many chances. However, I've grown up with most of these people and I have a fair idea of which ones are worth hanging with. And yes, being a nerd is most definitely a compliment in my opinion!


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## slinky773 (Aug 12, 2013)

Where is Marcel, anyway? Wasn't this thread supposed to be about him haha



pipkiksass said:


> Equally, some of the best and most naturally talented musicians I know are not intellectually 'gifted'.



I never really noticed trends in my school's orchestra or band based on intelligence. The best players DID tend to be the most intelligent, but then again, there were other players who were very intelligent and didn't really do well.

Perhaps another factor in whether you do well in an instrument is not necessarily your intelligence, but your values. I knew a saxophonist in band didn't really see the value in the band constantly stopping during some rehearsals to fix certain areas; he just cared about playing instead of playing well. As such, most of the time during band he would goof off and talk to his friends or whatever, and **** off the band director. Our band director was awesome and didn't really dislike anyone in the band, and didn't pick on him for the most part unless he was, you know, slacking off, but our little saxophonist still hated him, all because he was lazy and didn't see the value in the hard work our director was putting on us. And so he never practiced and so he's not really very good to this day.

A similar kid (who happened to be my best friend) who played Bari Sax was possibly the smartest kid I know. I'm sure that if he tried to do, well, anything, he would succeed because of his intellect. He could probably be a genius. However, he's a lazy sonofa***** and 1. never does his homework and 2. never studies. He pulled a B without trying in all classes, which is about as much as he cared for every class. He also never practiced his bari sax, and that didn't do him too much good either.



kclejeune said:


> Yeah my mom is a professional pianist and she calls it a percussion instrument, so I do too..



Funny, as I'm typing this my mom's teaching a cello lesson upstairs in our house. I decided to play the cello because throughout my entire toddlerhood I constantly heard the songs of the cello and wanted to play them. And now I have to prepare Roman Carnival Overture and Brahms Symphony 1 Mov. 4 for a seating audition on the 24th for a youth orchestra in chicago… *sigh* it's hell I tell you, but the pieces are still fun so 

As for my father, he only listens to classical music and has a masters in Conducting from Northwestern, as well as a masters in Music (I think?) from Seoul National. He used to compose pieces similar to Beethoven's Piano Sonatas. Some kids had Wayne Gretzky, and my dad had Beethoven as his childhood hero.

People say I inherited the music gene from them. I guess I'm pretty lucky, in that sense.


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## MarcelP (Aug 12, 2013)

slinky773 said:


> Where is Marcel, anyway? Wasn't this thread supposed to be about him haha



Well, I am a jock so I am very very offended by all this.. NOT... I have been sporting all my life, swimming, judo, karate, kick/tai boxing (look at nose in avatar, been broken twice and points left now). But I have been playing drums from when I was 8 years. I am an engineer (software developer) so I am a nerd. Oh yeah.. this topic is not really about me, more a good place to hang out


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## slinky773 (Aug 12, 2013)

That's a lot of sports, haha I'm planning to do fencing this year, if it's of any worth. Also I have a bit of a reputation for being a guy who runs pretty much all of the time, so I run a lot.

Software developer? I actually used to code quite a bit, haha. My favorite language is probably perl, for ease of use. I think perl is probably dying out, though. Make room for python, I suppose.


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## sneaklyfox (Aug 12, 2013)

MarcelP said:


> Well, I am a jock so I am very very offended by all this.. NOT... I have been sporting all my life, swimming, judo, karate, kick/tai boxing (look at nose in avatar, been broken twice and points left now). But I have been playing drums from when I was 8 years. I am an engineer (software developer) so I am a nerd. Oh yeah.. this topic is not really about me, more a good place to hang out


Oooh... a jock AND a nerd all in one! Haha. Of course Marcel, you can't be offended by me because you know how much I like you already. 



slinky773 said:


> That's a lot of sports, haha I'm planning to do fencing this year, if it's of any worth. Also I have a bit of a reputation for being a guy who runs pretty much all of the time, so I run a lot.
> 
> Software developer? I actually used to code quite a bit, haha. My favorite language is probably perl, for ease of use. I think perl is probably dying out, though. Make room for python, I suppose.



Wow, lots of musicians here. My mom taught music too (piano). I teach violin and piano. Of the string instruments, violin and cello would be my top choices (I hope I don't offend any violists here but for some reason I think of the viola as an inferior violin). I like the cello though and always have this vision that I would have a son who plays cello. I don't know why a son instead of a daughter... but well... I will have 3 chances for that! Ah, I don't think I ever used Perl myself. We used Java when I was in university. Fencing!!! I love fencing!!! I did that two semesters when I was in university and I was pretty good at it too. I think the fact that we've handled bows means we have trained finger dexterity (like, we know how to handle long pointy sticks). It was definitely an advantage for me when I did fencing.


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## kcl (Aug 12, 2013)

slinky773 said:


> blah blah blah



I've seen that too. Smart people that choose to slack off.. It makes me mad. But what do you know, I do orchestra too! I made the second to top group of an organization in the twin cities that runs 6 youth orchestras.. I do it during the school year. Although, I say it's no coincidence that many speedcubers are musicians. Anyone else notice that?


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## Yellowsnow98 (Aug 12, 2013)

kclejeune said:


> I've seen that too. Smart people that choose to slack off.. It makes me mad. But what do you know, I do orchestra too! I made the second to top group of an organization in the twin cities that runs 6 youth orchestras.. I do it during the school year. Although, I say it's no coincidence that many speedcubers are musicians. Anyone else notice that?



Well I don't _know_ any speedcubers. There are you guys but I haven't really been here long enough to _know_ any of you guys.

But I have noticed a lot of speedcubers play instruments. Personally I play guitar, bass and drums. I'm self taught and have been playing all 3 for less than 2 years. So I'm not technically very good, but I love playing music. Guitar and bass are very useful for OH (left hand dexterity).

I suppose it comes hand in hand. Cubing and musician-ing seem to attract the same kind of people.


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## sneaklyfox (Aug 12, 2013)

kclejeune said:


> I've seen that too. Smart people that choose to slack off.. It makes me mad. But what do you know, I do orchestra too! I made the second to top group of an organization in the twin cities that runs 6 youth orchestras.. I do it during the school year. Although, I say it's no coincidence that many speedcubers are musicians. Anyone else notice that?



Well yes some very smart people slack off. It doesn't make me mad though. I think it's just a pity but happens a lot. My brother hardly had to study and still got by with top grades. But he has very good memory, unlike me. I only have memory for music! I think there are people who are too smart for their own good. It means they never have to work hard to achieve top grades and things like that but it also means they don't develop a good work ethic so when the time comes (and usually it does come sooner or later), they find it much harder to adapt to good study/work habits. It's sad that this is so... all these brilliant minds not achieving very much. But hopefully they learn to work hard eventually.

Yeah, I did orchestra too at my university but I really do prefer solo playing (with accompaniment for violin I mean). I just found orchestra too time-consuming for one thing... it gets really boring when you have a 46-bar rest and you're sitting there counting the bars and then somewhere around bar 35 of your rest the conductor stops play to rehearse the same section from your first bar of rest. I think there's a thread somewhere about many speedcubers also being musicians. I forget what thread that is though.


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## MarcelP (Aug 12, 2013)

sneaklyfox said:


> Oooh... a jock AND a nerd all in one! Haha. Of course Marcel, you can't be offended by me because you know how much I like you already.



Noooo, of course. Nothing you will say will offend me.


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## kcl (Aug 12, 2013)

True. I have a director that always lets strings get through like 40 measures of a 42 measure rest and then stops and says to do it again.. Stupid Beethoven..


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## mark49152 (Aug 12, 2013)

Hey Marcel, how are you getting on with your Gan3? I still haven't had time to put mine together (work + baby > cubing).


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## slinky773 (Aug 12, 2013)

sneaklyfox said:


> I think there are people who are too smart for their own good. It means they never have to work hard to achieve top grades and things like that but it also means they don't develop a good work ethic so when the time comes (and usually it does come sooner or later), they find it much harder to adapt to good study/work habits. It's sad that this is so... all these brilliant minds not achieving very much. But hopefully they learn to work hard eventually.



IMO, if you are a truly smart individual, you'll realize that a good work ethic is much more important that actual talent or intelligence in many cases. Handel (or was it Haydn? I can't remember) worked hard at it every day to get good melodies into his music. Thomas Edison: "Genius is 1% inspiration, 99% perspiration." (if you're a smart individual IMO you'll also take quotes of wise people to heart )



sneaklyfox said:


> Yeah, I did orchestra too at my university but I really do prefer solo playing (with accompaniment for violin I mean). I just found orchestra too time-consuming for one thing... it gets really boring when you have a 46-bar rest and you're sitting there counting the bars and then somewhere around bar 35 of your rest the conductor stops play to rehearse the same section from your first bar of rest.



I actually was never bothered by that when I was in band, mostly because I enjoy the music.


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## pipkiksass (Aug 12, 2013)

YddEd said:


> Honestly I think I'm more interested about being a nerd



Being classed as a nerd is very different now from 20, 15, even 10 years ago. When I was at school I was classed as a nerd/geek, which was a big negative. I was fortunate that I'd been at school with some of the jocks since I was about 10, so they always left me alone. Although we weren't friends after about 12/13, there was something there that stopped me being targetted. 

Hollywood has made it far more acceptable to be a nerd in recent years. You don't have to look far for a film/tv show with a geek hero. Would NOT have happened 10 years ago! 



sneaklyfox said:


> @pipkiksass: I'm rather curious now which university you attended...?



Oxford. I studied English Literature. Although I have an 'arts' degree, most of my friends were scientists at school, at uni, and also now. I work for a software company as a tester. 

I hate to admit that I was always one of the smart slackers. I developed a bad work ethic because I could get away with doing the bare minimum, even at uni. As a result, I find it very hard to get motivated to do anything, and still have no idea at 30 what I want to do with my life. 

Genius, in its purest sense, is innate and natural. I often use the example of my best friend from uni, who studied maths. Maths students were given a sheet of 6 incredibly difficult equations to work through in a week. Most were expected to _attempt_ one or two in the whole week. By the time this friend had completed the 5-10 minute walk from his tutorial to my flat, he would have answered all six questions. _That _is genius - pure natural intelligence. It can't be taught. You can't work at being a genius. None of the other guys on his course, some of the most intelligent maths students in the country, could even get close to him. 

I think where the work comes in to the equation is the _application_ of that intelligence, and I guess that's what the Edison quote refers to. The people who history recognises as geniuses are those who are not only intelligent, but who have applied their genius through hard work, and delivered something truly significant.


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## slinky773 (Aug 12, 2013)

pipkiksass said:


> Hollywood has made it far more acceptable to be a nerd in recent years. You don't have to look far for a film/tv show with a geek hero. Would NOT have happened 10 years ago!



Indeed, just look at The Big Bang Theory, where most of the main characters are "nerds" haha


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## MarcelP (Aug 13, 2013)

mark49152 said:


> Hey Marcel, how are you getting on with your Gan3? I still haven't had time to put mine together (work + baby > cubing).



It is pure awesome.. One of the best cubes that exist. I have made a review unboxing... I will have to do a follow up on that. It is so amazing... I have done about 600 solves on it. It's just the size that I don't like. So I ordered another one and a new Weilong. I want to create the perfect cube by using the Gan core with the Weilong cubies...


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## kcl (Aug 13, 2013)

MarcelP said:


> It is pure awesome.. One of the best cubes that exist. I have made a review unboxing... I will have to do a follow up on that. It is so amazing... I have done about 600 solves on it. It's just the size that I don't like. So I ordered another one and a new Weilong. I want to create the perfect cube by using the Gan core with the Weilong cubies...



Is it better than the weilong?


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## MarcelP (Aug 13, 2013)

kclejeune said:


> Is it better than the weilong?


Hard to say with the size difference. It's better in terms of stability. It's like a Zhanchi without the lock-ups. But I hate that it is small. The bigger the cube the better my look-ahead. That's why I prefer the Weilong for now.


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## kcl (Aug 13, 2013)

MarcelP said:


> Hard to say with the size difference. It's better in terms of stability. It's like a Zhanchi without the lock-ups. But I hate that it is small. The bigger the cube the better my look-ahead. That's why I prefer the Weilong for now.



Oh I can't stand smaller cubes.. Is it true the weilong is quiet?


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## sneaklyfox (Aug 13, 2013)

kclejeune said:


> Oh I can't stand smaller cubes.. Is it true the weilong is quiet?



Yeah, it's pretty quiet. Mine is. Not the most quiet, mind you but pretty good. The Gans III sounds pretty good. I think I'd like to consider another smaller cube for OH... either 54.6mm Fangshi or the Gans III. But... well, I'm not planning to buy any cubes for awhile... not until I'm out of the thick of twins lol... so maybe by then there will be better cubes on the market? Or maybe more reviews to help me decide hehe.


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## kcl (Aug 13, 2013)

sneaklyfox said:


> Yeah, it's pretty quiet. Mine is. Not the most quiet, mind you but pretty good. The Gans III sounds pretty good. I think I'd like to consider another smaller cube for OH... either 54.6mm Fangshi or the Gans III. But... well, I'm not planning to buy any cubes for awhile... not until I'm out of the thick of twins lol... so maybe by then there will be better cubes on the market? Or maybe more reviews to help me decide hehe.



Quiet enough to avoid disturbing people on a bus or something?


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## sneaklyfox (Aug 13, 2013)

kclejeune said:


> Quiet enough to avoid disturbing people on a bus or something?



Maybe not if you turn at normal speed though it might be ok if it's kind of loud in the bus or if people aren't sitting right next to you. Also depends what you consider to be too loud to disturb others. I don't know if there are any cubes in my collection which I would deem quiet enough to avoid disturbing others in the same room. I normally just practice slow turning in public so as not to disturb others unless the environment is loud or people are not sitting close by.


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## kcl (Aug 13, 2013)

sneaklyfox said:


> Maybe not if you turn at normal speed though it might be ok if it's kind of loud in the bus or if people aren't sitting right next to you. Also depends what you consider to be too loud to disturb others. I don't know if there are any cubes in my collection which I would deem quiet enough to avoid disturbing others in the same room. I normally just practice slow turning in public so as not to disturb others unless the environment is loud or people are not sitting close by.



Hmm you've seen my turn style right? It can be vicious.. Do you think it's louder than a zhanchi?


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## sneaklyfox (Aug 13, 2013)

kclejeune said:


> Hmm you've seen my turn style right? It can be vicious.. Do you think it's louder than a zhanchi?



No, I don't think I've seen your turn style (unless I just can't remember). You have a video somewhere? I think it's quieter than a Zhanchi.


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## MarcelP (Aug 13, 2013)

sneaklyfox said:


> The Gans III sounds pretty good. I think I'd like to consider another smaller cube for OH... either 54.6mm Fangshi or the Gans III. But...


The Gan III is definatly better than 54.6 ShuanRen.. Gan III is more stable, faster and has no corner twists. Only the sound of the ShuangRen is much better. Gan III is very loud. Louder than MoyU huangYing. The Moyu Weilong is the most silent cube I have. (I have 3 and all very silent). Just needs a little braking in before it is really silent (just like with Zhanchi).


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## sneaklyfox (Aug 13, 2013)

MarcelP said:


> The Gan III is definatly better than 54.6 ShuanRen.. Gan III is more stable, faster and has no corner twists. Only the sound of the ShuangRen is much better. Gan III is very loud. Louder than MoyU huangYing. The Moyu Weilong is the most silent cube I have. (I have 3 and all very silent). Just needs a little braking in before it is really silent (just like with Zhanchi).



I don't know... my normal sized Fangshi doesn't corner twist on me. And I don't like loud cubes which is one reason why I never got a Huanying. Marcel, are you practicing OH?


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## MarcelP (Aug 13, 2013)

sneaklyfox said:


> Marcel, are you practicing OH?



Yes, a lot. I average now 1.30 (one minute less than a month ago). I use the 55mm Zhanchi for that. The last two days have I been using the Gan III. I think it is great for OH since it is more forgiving than the Zhanchi. But the sound is a real dealbreaker.. I am thinking about stuffing the corners so that it becomes quiet


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## mark49152 (Aug 13, 2013)

kclejeune said:


> Quiet enough to avoid disturbing people on a bus or something?


Shengshou Aurora is by far the quietest cube I have. When slow solving it can be virtually silent. I don't think any cube would be quiet enough not to disturb others with full speed solving unless you have an incredibly accurate style.


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## kcl (Aug 14, 2013)

sneaklyfox said:


> No, I don't think I've seen your turn style (unless I just can't remember). You have a video somewhere? I think it's quieter than a Zhanchi.



Yeah I have a bunch of solves on my channel. I wish I hadn't put music on the 14.06 average.. Oh well. 
http://youtu.be/ocmU1xcb_hA 
This is a good example.


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## slinky773 (Aug 14, 2013)

nice "bowtie" in the video lol


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## kcl (Aug 14, 2013)

slinky773 said:


> nice "bowtie" in the video lol



That would be my signature shirt lol. I wore a tux shirt to yoyo competitions for many years. Then I outgrew the shirt. So I got a new one!


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## sneaklyfox (Aug 14, 2013)

Yeah, what's with bowtie? Nice videos. Didn't know about your channel as it's not on your profile. I should probably film some fast solves of mine. Last time I did some real solves I wasn't even sub-20 and last Ao5 I uploaded was a slow turning thing. Seeing your 12.xx solve, I wonder if that's what it looks like when I get 12.xx solves too.

Well, as mark49152 said, I don't know if there's a cube that would be quiet enough with you going full speed.


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## kcl (Aug 14, 2013)

sneaklyfox said:


> Yeah, what's with bowtie? Nice videos. Didn't know about your channel as it's not on your profile. I should probably film some fast solves of mine. Last time I did some real solves I wasn't even sub-20 and last Ao5 I uploaded was a slow turning thing. Seeing your 12.xx solve, I wonder if that's what it looks like when I get 12.xx solves too.
> 
> Well, as mark49152 said, I don't know if there's a cube that would be quiet enough with you going full speed.



The bowtie is just a shirt that looks like a tuxedo. It suits me.. (Wow bad pun there) I notice a lot of people have funny looking wrist movements when they solve. I move as little as possible. But I would imagine yours look very similar to mine since we average about the same.


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## kcl (Aug 14, 2013)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UrViDriFkA8
Me in 2011. Case and point, notice the tux. I've been doing it since 2010.


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## slinky773 (Aug 14, 2013)

those are some mad yoyo skills you got kid haha


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## kcl (Aug 14, 2013)

slinky773 said:


> those are some mad yoyo skills you got kid haha



Thanks man! Looking back on this is so funny though.


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## sneaklyfox (Aug 14, 2013)

kclejeune said:


> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UrViDriFkA8
> Me in 2011. Case and point, notice the tux. I've been doing it since 2010.



Crazyyyy...


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## kcl (Aug 14, 2013)

sneaklyfox said:


> Crazyyyy...



Haha thank you


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## MarcelP (Aug 14, 2013)

kclejeune said:


> Yeah I have a bunch of solves on my channel. I wish I hadn't put music on the 14.06 average.. Oh well.
> http://youtu.be/ocmU1xcb_hA
> This is a good example.



Nice speed you have  I am also amazed by your joyo skills..


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## kcl (Aug 14, 2013)

MarcelP said:


> Nice speed you have  I am also amazed by your joyo skills..



Thank you too! Seriously if the yoyoing is getting this much attention I should put a more current one..


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## sneaklyfox (Aug 14, 2013)

kclejeune said:


> Thank you too! Seriously if the yoyoing is getting this much attention I should put a more current one..



Sure. Put a current one. I'll watch it.


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## kcl (Aug 14, 2013)

Ok! I made this on vacation in WY/SD/MO with a cheap plastic yoyo for a video contest. You had to use that yoyo.. 

http://youtu.be/Sgp2O8oABy0

Then this is my MN states freestyle. The prelim is good, the final is screwed up. 

http://youtu.be/WVmFBoChTaU


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## sneaklyfox (Aug 14, 2013)

kclejeune said:


> Ok! I made this on vacation in WY/SD/MO with a cheap plastic yoyo for a video contest. You had to use that yoyo..
> 
> http://youtu.be/Sgp2O8oABy0
> 
> ...



First one: Cool video, music, stunts...

I didn't even know you could do all these things with a yoyo until I watched your first video. My extent of yoyoing was things like around the world and walking the dog... lol. So you choreograph your entire routine?


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## slinky773 (Aug 14, 2013)

kclejeune said:


> http://youtu.be/Sgp2O8oABy0



Wow, this reminds me a lot of videos from websites that make custom decks of cards. I'll show you what I mean:






that's a really good example haha


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## kcl (Aug 14, 2013)

slinky773 said:


> Wow, this reminds me a lot of videos from websites that make custom decks of cards. I'll show you what I mean:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Lol I do cardistry stuff too. I have videos of that on an old channel.


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## sneaklyfox (Aug 15, 2013)

kclejeune said:


> Lol I do cardistry stuff too. I have videos of that on an old channel.



Link?


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## kcl (Aug 15, 2013)

sneaklyfox said:


> Link?



I hate the channel now, and lost access to it, but here. 

http://youtu.be/PwgrHsxey34

There are some older yoyo videos too.


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## sneaklyfox (Aug 15, 2013)

kclejeune said:


> I hate the channel now, and lost access to it, but here.
> 
> http://youtu.be/PwgrHsxey34
> 
> There are some older yoyo videos too.



Neat. Other hobbies besides music, cubing, yoyoing and cardistry?


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## kcl (Aug 15, 2013)

sneaklyfox said:


> Neat. Other hobbies besides music, cubing, yoyoing and cardistry?



Contact juggling.. Card magic.. Magic in general. Video editing, Graphics and animation, so like special effects. I love to make music in Logic Pro, mostly electronic.


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## sneaklyfox (Aug 15, 2013)

kclejeune said:


> Contact juggling.. Card magic.. Magic in general. Video editing, Graphics and animation, so like special effects. I love to make music in Logic Pro, mostly electronic.



Contact juggling looks pretty cool. I haven't tried it though. I've done some normal juggling. Played with magic tricks before too... card tricks and coin tricks. Wrote some music for fun. I also enjoy reading, wood sculpting, and cross-stitching none of which are showy-type things but require patience. But cubing is definitely my current hobby of choice.


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## kcl (Aug 15, 2013)

sneaklyfox said:


> Contact juggling looks pretty cool. I haven't tried it though. I've done some normal juggling. Played with magic tricks before too... card tricks and coin tricks. Wrote some music for fun. I also enjoy reading, wood sculpting, and cross-stitching none of which are showy-type things but require patience. But cubing is definitely my current hobby of choice.



Oh and I forgot I enjoy playing golf and I also do long distance biking.


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## slinky773 (Aug 15, 2013)

Woah, is that a signed... carbon deck? I can't remember the names of all of the smokes and mirrors haha

nice tornado (? I think) in the trailer btw haha


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## kcl (Aug 15, 2013)

slinky773 said:


> Woah, is that a signed... carbon deck? I can't remember the names of all of the smokes and mirrors haha
> 
> nice tornado (? I think) in the trailer btw haha



It was the v6. Red ones.. I have half a brick. And yeah tornado is part of pandora


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## slinky773 (Aug 15, 2013)

I've been doing card magic (or did I guess) for like 5 years and you're better than me haha I guess it's because I never really tried to learn most of the cardistry stuff


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## kcl (Aug 15, 2013)

slinky773 said:


> I've been doing card magic (or did I guess) for like 5 years and you're better than me haha I guess it's because I never really tried to learn most of the cardistry stuff



I've been out of it the past year. I was really into it for like 2 years. It'll come around again. My hobbies cycle.


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## sneaklyfox (Aug 15, 2013)

kclejeune said:


> Oh and I forgot I enjoy playing golf and I also do long distance biking.



Haha... forgot all the athletics now, right? Yeah, I did fencing and archery.


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## kcl (Aug 15, 2013)

sneaklyfox said:


> Haha... forgot all the athletics now, right? Yeah, I did fencing and archery.



Cool! I like archery but I don't do it much.. Fencing seems cool also


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## sneaklyfox (Aug 15, 2013)

I wish I could keep doing archery but it's not like I actually have my own bow and arrow set. I did it back in university... was tournament champion... I love the feeling when the arrow is released.


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## kcl (Aug 15, 2013)

sneaklyfox said:


> I wish I could keep doing archery but it's not like I actually have my own bow and arrow set. I did it back in university... was tournament champion... I love the feeling when the arrow is released.



My friend is really into it. He has like a $2000 bow..


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## sneaklyfox (Aug 15, 2013)

kclejeune said:


> My friend is really into it. He has like a $2000 bow..



I have a $1000 bow... it would've cost me $3000 if it wasn't damaged and repaired.  (Ok, I meant violin bow.)


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## kcl (Aug 15, 2013)

sneaklyfox said:


> I have a $1000 bow... it would've cost me $3000 if it wasn't damaged and repaired.  (Ok, I meant violin bow.)



Hahaha I think mine is worth around $700. The violin is probably between $3000-$5000.. And then the horn is around $5000.


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## slinky773 (Aug 15, 2013)

I use my mom's old cello from when she was my age, back in the 70's in Korea


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## sneaklyfox (Aug 15, 2013)

kclejeune said:


> Hahaha I think mine is worth around $700. The violin is probably between $3000-$5000.. And then the horn is around $5000.



Wow, that's pretty expensive for a horn, right? Violin is something around $10000 but what's that compared to a couple million for a strad?


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## kcl (Aug 15, 2013)

sneaklyfox said:


> Wow, that's pretty expensive for a horn, right? Violin is something around $10000 but what's that compared to a couple million for a strad?



Really. Joshua Bell's violin has an incredible story.. And it's worth 4 million... His BOW is worth more than my house haha (I read somewhere it's like $400,000) 
It's in the middle of the price range. Really it jumps straight from a $5000 Conn 8DS to a $9000-$15000 Lawson..


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## sneaklyfox (Aug 15, 2013)

Joshua Bell came to town a couple decades ago. I was only in elementary school but everyone joked and laughed that he was my "boyfriend" when they saw the picture I took with him.


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## slinky773 (Aug 15, 2013)

sneaklyfox said:


> Joshua Bell came to town a couple decades ago. I was only in elementary school but everyone joked and laughed that he was my "boyfriend" when they saw the picture I took with him.



haha must have been torture, little kids can be very tease-y

My church some day decided to get it into their heads to call me Yo Yo Ma. Some people still call me that to this day. >.<


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## sneaklyfox (Aug 15, 2013)

slinky773 said:


> haha must have been torture, little kids can be very tease-y
> 
> My church some day decided to get it into their heads to call me Yo Yo Ma. Some people still call me that to this day. >.<



Not really torture. I was teased a lot as a kid so I adapted and learned to ignore the stupid comments (or jokingly laugh along "yeah yeah, suuure..." or try some of my other tactics until they were more bothered than I was). Kids will stop picking on you if it's not fun anymore. That's why peer pressure doesn't have as great an effect on me as other people... I'm a non-conformist. What kind of church do you attend?


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## slinky773 (Aug 15, 2013)

I attend a Korean-American Presbyterian church. Most of the kids are pretty nice, and really no one calls me yo yo ma much anymore ever since the old pastor left, so…


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## sneaklyfox (Aug 15, 2013)

slinky773 said:


> I attend a Korean-American Presbyterian church. Most of the kids are pretty nice, and really no one calls me yo yo ma much anymore ever since the old pastor left, so…



Cool. I go to church too (Chinese Alliance - basically protestant evangelical). You probably didn't like being called "Yo Yo Ma" but they (at least adults) probably thought it was a compliment kind of nickname to say you play cello very very well.


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## MarcelP (Aug 15, 2013)

Okay, I did an Ao100 with my new ShuangRen V2. 

I got an average of 26.97. That is not good. The first 20 solves where sub 25. But I have a pop and a few corner twists and from then appearantly I was affraid to turn fast. This cube has to grow on me. For now my V1's are better. I like the fact that it is more stable. I suspect when it is more broken in it will get better because I can tighten the cube then.

anyway, here some decent solves. The 28 is with corner twist:



Spoiler



75. 23.24 D' B2 D' F2 D2 L2 D R2 U' L2 U' R' F2 D' F2 L B' D' F' L F2 D
76. 29.20 D' F2 U F2 D' B2 R2 L2 U L2 D' B' R B' F' L F2 L' D R' U
77. 19.47 U2 F2 D2 L2 U R2 D' L2 U' R' D B' U' R F2 D' B2 U2 B2 U'
78. 28.77 U R2 F2 D' F2 U B2 L2 U2 B2 D L' F D L2 D F2 R' L' D' B' R
79. 20.35 R2 D2 B2 U F2 R2 D2 F2 L2 D F2 R F U2 B' D U' B2 D L' U
80. 25.16 B2 D2 R2 U2 L2 F2 U F2 R2 U' L2 F' L2 F' R' B U' R F2


[video=youtube_share;CbfWc9Ief6w]http://youtu.be/CbfWc9Ief6w[/video]


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## sneaklyfox (Aug 15, 2013)

What are your Ao100s like with Weilong?


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## Yellowsnow98 (Aug 15, 2013)

sneaklyfox said:


> What are your Ao100s like with Weilong?



I don't know about time but I remember Marcel saying he gets better times with the HuanYing than the WeiLong


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## MarcelP (Aug 15, 2013)

sneaklyfox said:


> What are your Ao100s like with Weilong?



I have a 24.98 Ao100 PB and most are sub 26. This was almost a 27. I had way to many akward Last layers.. Lock ups and stuff.. 


Yellowsnow98 said:


> I don't know about time but I remember Marcel saying he gets better times with the HuanYing than the WeiLong



Right now Weilong is my favorite.. All PB's are with Weilong  I still use HuangYing a lot too. I like that is cuts everything..


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## Yellowsnow98 (Aug 15, 2013)

MarcelP said:


> Right now Weilong is my favorite.. All PB's are with Weilong  I still use HuangYing a lot too. I like that is cuts everything..



Hmm...
I need me one of these WeiLongs.
Do they have corner caps?

'Cause that's my only problem with the HuanYing


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## MarcelP (Aug 15, 2013)

Yellowsnow98 said:


> Hmm...
> I need me one of these WeiLongs.
> Do they have corner caps?
> 
> 'Cause that's my only problem with the HuanYing



The Weilong is flawless.. I don't know what you mean. Here is a corner of my weilong:


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## Yellowsnow98 (Aug 15, 2013)

MarcelP said:


> The Weilong is flawless.. I don't know what you mean. Here is a corner of my weilong:



Oh yeah, the WeiLong corner is split in 2 at the stalk so there is no cap to fall off.
Yep I'll be ordering one very soon. Lol.


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## pipkiksass (Aug 20, 2013)

Got my weilong from Fasttech today, 2 weeks to ship for 70 cents, not bad! Out of the box, it was RIDICULOUSLY fast, I got it at work, so I had to wait to get home to dismantle and lube it (GRR!!!). I've had a play with it, but it's 12:30 in the morning here, so I'm pretty slow, still a few sub-20's though. I may use it for the race to 20 tomorrow, but it's pretty nice so far - cuts a LOT, and haven't had a single pop yet. 

Thanks for the recommendation


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## MarcelP (Aug 20, 2013)

pipkiksass said:


> Got my weilong from Fasttech today, 2 weeks to ship for 70 cents, not bad! Out of the box, it was RIDICULOUSLY fast, I got it at work, so I had to wait to get home to dismantle and lube it (GRR!!!). I've had a play with it, but it's 12:30 in the morning here, so I'm pretty slow, still a few sub-20's though. I may use it for the race to 20 tomorrow, but it's pretty nice so far - cuts a LOT, and haven't had a single pop yet.
> 
> Thanks for the recommendation



I am glad you like it. It's still my main. I have been solving the ShuangRen V2 exclusively the last week. It's an incredible cube. Much more stable compared to the V1. If only my times on the V2 would be the same as on my Weilong.. I did get one Ao100 of 25.9X but all others where between high 26 and low 27. So I did more than 1000 solves on the ShuangRen V2 and immediatly when I got back solving the Weilong my times got better.

I changed the core of my Weilong yesterday. It's now equipped with the octopus core from the Gan III. I must say, I like it because the cube feels lighter (no screws) but it does nothing really on improving stability or anything. The Gan III with the Weilong core how ever is much more unstable now..


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## Gordon (Aug 20, 2013)

I somehow don't like the Weilong.. or it doesn't fit for me. My times are around 2 - 3 seconds slower on the Weilong compared to the ShuangRen (which is my main atm) 


Last week I did a comparison avg of 12 (not the same scrambles):

*Weilong: 32.36*
(29.92, 32.55, 34.81, (38.01), 27.62, 35.48, 30.04, 33.72, (26.97), 35.65, 33.34, 30.50)

*Fangshi: 29.45*
(31.45, 37.10, (23.16), (44.10), 31.74, 31.39, 28.29, 27.37, 26.28, 30.92, 25.71, 24.22)


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## Yellowsnow98 (Aug 20, 2013)

My Weilong has been ordered....
I have high hopes.


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## MarcelP (Aug 20, 2013)

Gordon said:


> .. the ShuangRen (which is my main atm)..



V1 or V2?


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## sneaklyfox (Aug 20, 2013)

Funny... Shuangren has been my main for a few weeks. But some days I get better times on my Weilong. But I still don't like the feel very much. But I think it's about time for me to relube both of those cubes since I got them over a month ago. The Weilong definitely needs some relube because one side is making some weird noise. And then yesterday I took out my Zhanchi to play with and it was really awesome. And then sometimes I still take out my Guhong v1 and it feels really nice and smooth. I think I just keep changing cubes depending on the day or how my fingers are feeling. Well... I'll plan to relube/tension my SR and WL tonight and resticker my Zhanchi (I kept the stock stickers on them so far)... maybe I will feel differently about them again.

On a different topic: My babies are probably coming in no more than 6 more days max. August 26th is the day for a planned C-section (for medical reason). The bad thing though is if I just go in for the C-section, it means I won't be able to set a new record or make video for cubing in labour!  I was kinda looking forward to that part. But who knows... I could still go into labour before then.


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## MarcelP (Aug 20, 2013)

sneaklyfox said:


> Funny... Shuangren has been my main for a few weeks. But some days I get better times on my Weilong. But I still don't like the feel very much. But I think it's about time for me to relube both of those cubes since I got them over a month ago. The Weilong definitely needs some relube because one side is making some weird noise. And then yesterday I took out my Zhanchi to play with and it was really awesome. And then sometimes I still take out my Guhong v1 and it feels really nice and smooth. I think I just keep changing cubes depending on the day or how my fingers are feeling. Well... I'll plan to relube/tension my SR and WL tonight and resticker my Zhanchi (I kept the stock stickers on them so far)... maybe I will feel differently about them again.
> 
> On a different topic: My babies are probably coming in no more than 6 more days max. August 26th is the day for a planned C-section (for medical reason). The bad thing though is if I just go in for the C-section, it means I won't be able to set a new record or make video for cubing in labour!  I was kinda looking forward to that part. But who knows... I could still go into labour before then.



I was looking forward to that video  Well, the babies are far more important to look out for. Good luck on the 26th. 

I also use my Zhanchi's often. After doing 100 solves on the Zhanchi my turning style is more accurate. But going back to a ShuangRen/Weilongor Huangying is awesome


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## kcl (Aug 20, 2013)

sneaklyfox said:


> Funny... Shuangren has been my main for a few weeks. But some days I get better times on my Weilong. But I still don't like the feel very much. But I think it's about time for me to relube both of those cubes since I got them over a month ago. The Weilong definitely needs some relube because one side is making some weird noise. And then yesterday I took out my Zhanchi to play with and it was really awesome. And then sometimes I still take out my Guhong v1 and it feels really nice and smooth. I think I just keep changing cubes depending on the day or how my fingers are feeling. Well... I'll plan to relube/tension my SR and WL tonight and resticker my Zhanchi (I kept the stock stickers on them so far)... maybe I will feel differently about them again.
> 
> On a different topic: My babies are probably coming in no more than 6 more days max. August 26th is the day for a planned C-section (for medical reason). The bad thing though is if I just go in for the C-section, it means I won't be able to set a new record or make video for cubing in labour!  I was kinda looking forward to that part. But who knows... I could still go into labour before then.



Question. What IS the UWR time for cubing in labor?


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## sneaklyfox (Aug 20, 2013)

kclejeune said:


> Question. What IS the UWR time for cubing in labor?



Why... you're going to go for it?  It's ~20 seconds. I didn't have a timer on me then.


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## kcl (Aug 20, 2013)

sneaklyfox said:


> Why... you're going to go for it?  It's ~20 seconds. I didn't have a timer on me then.



Oh yes, totally. Lol Considering being in labor, anything NEAR 20 is pretty dang good.


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## sneaklyfox (Aug 20, 2013)

kclejeune said:


> Oh yes, totally. Lol Considering being in labor, anything NEAR 20 is pretty dang good.



Haha. 20 for me at the time was actually really good because I was only averaging ~25 so maybe I actually do better while in pain. I'm sure I would be able to beat it as I'm quite a bit faster than I was then... just that it looks like I won't get a chance to.


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## kcl (Aug 20, 2013)

sneaklyfox said:


> Haha. 20 for me at the time was actually really good because I was only averaging ~25 so maybe I actually do better while in pain. I'm sure I would be able to beat it as I'm quite a bit faster than I was then... just that it looks like I won't get a chance to.



Oh I see. OMG I just broke my PB! 9.40


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## Gordon (Aug 20, 2013)

MarcelP said:


> V1 or V2?



V1


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## Lchu613 (Aug 20, 2013)

I main a Zhanchi w/ Fangshi springs. I like the feel better than the Fangshi. And it pops/corner twists less. (Although it is also insanely modded)


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## sneaklyfox (Aug 20, 2013)

Lchu613 said:


> I main a Zhanchi w/ Fangshi springs. I like the feel better than the Fangshi. And it pops/corner twists less. (Although it is also insanely modded)



What mods did you do to your Zhanchi and which one(s) would you recommend?


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## Lchu613 (Aug 20, 2013)

CPM is the biggest one, you round off the edges on the centers. Also I added a bit where you shave down just the faces of the centers a tiny bit, it helps with speed. On the corners, round off the sharp corners on the base nicely and shave down the three nibs of flashing on the bottom for smoothness. I also did the 48 PEM but that didn't really do much. 
Make sure not to do any sanding on the tops of the base of the corners, my friend did that to his Guhong and it made it rattly and terrible. You really don't need to do much on the sanding.

Overall, the spring swap and CPM are most essential.


----------



## pipkiksass (Aug 20, 2013)

I have a couple of zhanchis, a fangshi (V1), a huanying and (now) a weilong. Here's my 2 cents worth:

*Fanshi*
Scratchy out of the box, but becomes smoother with breaking in. Smooth and consistent, without the clickiness of a Dayan cube. Cuts corners like it's going out of fashion. HORRIBLE stock stickers. Replaced with 1/2 brights, but I've not used this cube a whole lot. The plastic feels cheaper than the Zhanchi, and the build quality isn't too impressive. It struggles to hold its cuboid shape, if you hold two corners in your hand and shake, which translates to flimsiness when solving. Has a tendency for corner-twists on looser tensions.

*Huanying* - my least favourite. The plastic feels really cheap, and the cube feels hollow and brittle. It's noisy as hell, but cuts corners even better than the Fanshi. I get the impression that this cube was designed to cut corners, and nothing more, because so many reviews go into detail of how far a cube will cut. But we all know corner cutting isn't that important in a solve - if you're 45 degrees out, you need better turning accuracy, not a more forgiving cube! The stickers are the best thing about it. Apart from the orange, which I don't like! I can imagine this cube being hella-fast if you don't mind the fact it sounds like you're cubing in the middle of a heated Mah-Jong tournament.

*Weilong* - I've only had my Weilong for a few days, but I like it. It's like a _slightly_ quieter, more developed Huanying - it's made of the same plastic, which I found a little disappointing, because it still feels cheap next to a Dayan cube. It's still a little noisy for my taste, but I've been spoilt with my Dayan cubes. The stickers are great, as with the Huanying (other than the orange!), and I like the MoYu core, it's pretty! I sometimes find I over-turn in LL algs with this cube, but that's more me than the cube. I've not had a single pop in a few hundred solves. I'd have had a few with my Zhanchi in that time. I'm pretty sure this will share my 'main' spot with my Zhanchi, once I get used to it. It's practically unpoppable, but I'm not 100% sold on the feel. I think if they made this cube out of a slightly more expensive, or slightly thicker plastic, it would be truly great.

*Zhanchi* - great cube out of the box. Once modded, can be quiet, smooth, and pretty much unbeatable. Feels solid and well-made, but has a tendency to pop on loose tensions. Mine has 48PEM and some rounding of the edges and corners, but not CPM, and it's a thing of beauty. 55mm of pure silky-smoothness. I sometimes get lockups in LL algs with it, maybe more than on the Weilong, but again that's me rushing. 

The verdict: despite the flurry of Dayan-toppling cubes that have recently been released, I don't think any of them have a case for becoming the #1 cube out there. There will be people who love the Fangshi, and people who love the HuanYing and, I suspect, even more people who love the Weilong, but if someone came up to me in the street tomorrow and said "I'm looking to get into speedcubing, what's the best cube available", I'd still have to say the Zhanchi.

Happy to be proven wrong by the Weilong over the next few weeks... we shall see.

@Lchu - do you think the Zhanchi spring swap has made a significant difference? The _only_ shortcoming of my favourite Zhanchi is the pops, but I've never considered swapping hardware.


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## Yellowsnow98 (Aug 20, 2013)

Lchu613 said:


> CPM is the biggest one, you round off the edges on the centers. Also I added a bit where you shave down just the faces of the centers a tiny bit, it helps with speed. On the corners, round off the sharp corners on the base nicely and shave down the three nibs of flashing on the bottom for smoothness. I also did the 48 PEM but that didn't really do much.
> Make sure not to do any sanding on the tops of the base of the corners, my friend did that to his Guhong and it made it rattly and terrible. You really don't need to do much on the sanding.
> 
> Overall, the spring swap and CPM are most essential.



Lol, CPM is the only mod I _haven't_ done to my Zhanchi.


----------



## sneaklyfox (Aug 20, 2013)

Lchu613 said:


> CPM is the biggest one, you round off the edges on the centers. Also I added a bit where you shave down just the faces of the centers a tiny bit, it helps with speed. On the corners, round off the sharp corners on the base nicely and shave down the three nibs of flashing on the bottom for smoothness. I also did the 48 PEM but that didn't really do much.
> Make sure not to do any sanding on the tops of the base of the corners, my friend did that to his Guhong and it made it rattly and terrible. You really don't need to do much on the sanding.
> 
> Overall, the spring swap and CPM are most essential.



Ok, I think I might try CPM tonight on my Zhanchi. One more question... do you think you like your cubes tight or loose?


----------



## Lchu613 (Aug 21, 2013)

I prefer them slightly loose, but still at the 45 degree capability.
The Fangshi springs let you keep the same approximate tensions with less popping since they're softer, so you can get the screws in more and still have them springy. Basic CPM (rounding) helps cutting and smoothness some, and the flat sanding helps speed some.

The spring swap is the safest since you can switch right back, CPM you should do a bit at a time to see if you like it. The corner base can also help with smoothness, just get it round.

I'll see if I can get some pics up.
EDIT: It's not letting me upload so here: 
CPM: https://docs.google.com/file/d/0ByVba6IcKrUkOHR6WWxsUERmQU0/edit?usp=sharing
Corner: https://docs.google.com/file/d/0ByVba6IcKrUkQXA5QkJ3N3RYQzA/edit?usp=sharing


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## sneaklyfox (Aug 21, 2013)

Lchu613 said:


> I prefer them slightly loose, but still at the 45 degree capability.
> The Fangshi springs let you keep the same approximate tensions with less popping since they're softer, so you can get the screws in more and still have them springy. Basic CPM (rounding) helps cutting and smoothness some, and the flat sanding helps speed some.
> 
> The spring swap is the safest since you can switch right back, CPM you should do a bit at a time to see if you like it. The corner base can also help with smoothness, just get it round.
> ...



Thanks. I ended up just lubing/tensioning my WL and SR tonight and that's all I think I'll manage. Plus... shortly after I beat my PB Ao12 with my SR... sub-14, yay! So maybe another day I will try the Zhanchi mod.


----------



## YddEd (Aug 21, 2013)

Lchu613 said:


> I prefer them slightly loose, but still at the 45 degree capability.
> The Fangshi springs let you keep the same approximate tensions with less popping since they're softer, so you can get the screws in more and still have them springy. Basic CPM (rounding) helps cutting and smoothness some, and the flat sanding helps speed some.
> 
> The spring swap is the safest since you can switch right back, CPM you should do a bit at a time to see if you like it. The corner base can also help with smoothness, just get it round.
> ...


You forgot to show the stalk for the CPM.


----------



## MarcelP (Aug 21, 2013)

sneaklyfox said:


> Plus... shortly after I beat my PB Ao12 with my SR... sub-14, yay!



Oh man... 13.95 Ao12.. That is so freaking fast! You must make some video's again soon! Congrats!  I am pretty sure you will be sub 10 one day and possibly one of the fastest women.


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## Lchu613 (Aug 21, 2013)

YddEd said:


> You forgot to show the stalk for the CPM.



Actually I was too lazy to take the centers off the core, so I didn't do the stalks . Also I personally don't think it's a good idea to mess with the stock, half of a stalk fell off in my Guhong once and it made it feel slightly weird.

I forgot most people might not be willing to do the spring swap. I actually had an extra set of springs as my first core set from hknowstore had a screwed-up washer and they sent me a full replacement set.


----------



## kcl (Aug 22, 2013)

sneaklyfox said:


> Thanks. I ended up just lubing/tensioning my WL and SR tonight and that's all I think I'll manage. Plus... shortly after I beat my PB Ao12 with my SR... sub-14, yay! So maybe another day I will try the Zhanchi mod.



NO. This is just creepy now. Yesterday I got a 13.82 ao12, my first sub 14.


----------



## sneaklyfox (Aug 22, 2013)

kclejeune said:


> NO. This is just creepy now. Yesterday I got a 13.82 ao12, my first sub 14.



Nice! So if I mod my Zhanchi, you'll get another PB?


----------



## kcl (Aug 22, 2013)

sneaklyfox said:


> Nice! So if I mod my Zhanchi, you'll get another PB?



Nope I misread an thought you got the PB last night lol


----------



## sneaklyfox (Aug 22, 2013)

kclejeune said:


> Nope I misread an thought you got the PB last night lol



No, you didn't misread. But I think you'll get another PB before I do.


----------



## kcl (Aug 22, 2013)

sneaklyfox said:


> No, you didn't misread. But I think you'll get another PB before I do.



Oh in that case yeah. I got a 9.4 yesterday.. 46 moves


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## MarcelP (Aug 22, 2013)

ok, I have been trying real hard to get an Ao12 sub 25 from the ShuangRen on video. I finally did it tonight. While uploading I filmed another Ao12 with the Weilong. 

I cheated a few times  One time I was looking at the timer and missed a U turn mid PLL.. leaving an onsolved cube..  And one time I accidently touched the spacebar during a PLL. Oh well, it's no competition.


Spoiler



Rubik's cube
22-aug-2013 18:48:49 - 18:58:06

Mean: 23.74
Average: 23.68
Best time: 19.88
Median: 23.73
Worst time: 28.21
Standard deviation: 2.45

Best average of 5: 23.03
8-12 - (19.88) 22.69 (28.14) 21.46 24.93

Best average of 12: 23.68
1-12 - 24.67 23.70 21.02 23.75 24.10 22.34 (28.21) (19.88) 22.69 28.14 21.46 24.93

1. 24.67 U' R2 F2 U' B2 L2 D' L2 F2 L2 D F' R F' U2 B2 D' F U R' B'
2. 23.70 F2 D B2 L2 F2 L2 D L2 D R2 D' B' U' R' F D B' U2 R F' L D2
3. 21.02 D2 B2 L2 B2 U R2 D2 U L2 U L2 B' U' R' D2 B2 U R B2 F D U
4. 23.75 B2 D2 L2 B2 D' R2 D L2 F2 D' U' R D2 F' U2 F L2 B R2 L' D2 U2
5. 24.10 R2 F2 D' B2 R2 D2 R2 F2 D F2 L2 F' L' F2 D2 B' U R2 F D2 F'
6. 22.34 B2 R2 U' B2 F2 D' R2 U B2 D2 F2 R' U L2 D2 F2 D' R U' F' D U'
7. 28.21 L2 D' U2 B2 L2 U2 R2 F2 R2 U2 F2 L' D' U2 F L2 B' D F D L U2
8. 19.88 R2 U' B2 D2 F2 R2 U' B2 L2 D2 B2 L' D U' F L D F L2 F2 L U'
9. 22.69 L2 D2 B2 F2 R2 D R2 U2 B2 D' R F' L D B' R2 L D2 F' D'
10. 28.14 D2 R2 B2 D' R2 U2 B2 U R2 U L2 F' L' D B U2 R' F2 L2 U L2 U
11. 21.46 (was 19.46 but I accidently touched the spacebar so added 2+) B2 D B2 U' R2 B2 F2 D F2 L2 U' R' L' B' R D2 U' B R' L' F2 U'
12. 24.93 L2 F2 U' L2 D B2 U2 B2 R2 F2 R2 F' U' B2 R' F2 R' B2 D U' L



[video=youtube_share;hpepcLaIRn0]http://youtu.be/hpepcLaIRn0[/video]


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## kcl (Aug 22, 2013)

MarcelP said:


> ok, I have been trying real hard to get an Ao12 sub 25 from the ShuangRen on video. I finally did it tonight. While uploading I filmed another Ao12 with the Weilong.
> 
> I cheated a few times  One time I was looking at the timer and missed a U turn mid PLL.. leaving an onsolved cube..  And one time I accidently touched the spacebar during a PLL. Oh well, it's no competition.
> 
> ...



Lol I do that too. Sometimes with DNF because of M slice I let it slide in an Ao100 and just do +2 or nothing at all.


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## MarcelP (Aug 23, 2013)

New PB Ao100: Whoohoo.. Yeah I am faster


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## sneaklyfox (Aug 23, 2013)

Sweet, Marcel!


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## MarcelP (Aug 23, 2013)

sneaklyfox said:


> Sweet, Marcel!



Thanks! I feel so happy today because of my new PB. I did a few A012 after that to check if everything is in order.. (how paranoia am I huh?).. LOL Still fast...


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## sneaklyfox (Aug 23, 2013)

MarcelP said:


> Thanks! I feel so happy today because of my new PB. I did a few A012 after that to check if everything is in order.. (how paranoia am I huh?).. LOL Still fast...



I'm really happy for you too! Getting new PBs is always sooo awesome. I look forward to your next big break!


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## YddEd (Aug 24, 2013)

MarcelP said:


> New PB Ao100: Whoohoo.. Yeah I am faster


:O
I think my first AO100 was 24.65 or something (Yes, I never bothered to do an AO100 until now)
I need to do more AO100's.


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## MarcelP (Aug 24, 2013)

I started doing Ao100's when I was averaging 35- 40. It had such an impact that after each Ao100 I was half a second faster


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## mark49152 (Aug 24, 2013)

Where do you guys find time for 100 solves in a row! Maybe when I'm sub10...


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## MarcelP (Aug 24, 2013)

mark49152 said:


> Where do you guys find time for 100 solves in a row! Maybe when I'm sub10...



Yeah, when I was averaging 40 secs it took a while LOL... I try to do at least once a week a big session. It really helps getting faster.


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## Yellowsnow98 (Aug 24, 2013)

MarcelP said:


> Yeah, when I was averaging 40 secs it took a while LOL... I try to do at least once a week a big session. It really helps getting faster.



Yeah, I average about 3 or 4 seconds slower than you and I can never find the time for ao100s. And when I go back to school I will barely have time for ao12s.


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## sneaklyfox (Aug 24, 2013)

You could continue your Ao100 the next day, no?


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## mark49152 (Aug 24, 2013)

sneaklyfox said:


> You could continue your Ao100 the next day, no?


Is that allowed? I assumed breaking into two sessions would only qualify as two ao50's, for example.


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## sneaklyfox (Aug 24, 2013)

mark49152 said:


> Is that allowed? I assumed breaking into two sessions would only qualify as two ao50's, for example.



Why not? Sometimes I have to get up in the middle of a session to do something and then come back later. Besides, usually if you break your sessions up the average is worse than if you sit there the whole time because then you may need to warm up again. So I don't see why you can't do that if it doesn't give you any advantage.


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## mark49152 (Aug 24, 2013)

In that case I do regular ao1000's


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## MarcelP (Aug 24, 2013)

Yeah I brake them up some times for lunch or getting kids from school etc  There are no strict rules in my house on cubing anyway.. LOL


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## sneaklyfox (Aug 25, 2013)

Something funny to share with you guys... my 5-year-old daughter just said to my 3-year-old son who didn't want to go brush his teeth: "If you don't brush your teeth, they will be really dirty and CREEPY!"


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## YddEd (Aug 25, 2013)

sneaklyfox said:


> Something funny to share with you guys... my 5-year-old daughter just said to my 3-year-old son who didn't want to go brush his teeth: "If you don't brush your teeth, they will be really dirty and CREEPY!"


Did you record it?


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## MarcelP (Aug 25, 2013)

sneaklyfox said:


> Something funny to share with you guys... my 5-year-old daughter just said to my 3-year-old son who didn't want to go brush his teeth: "If you don't brush your teeth, they will be really dirty and CREEPY!"



LOL, kids can be very visualizing..  Tomorrow is the big day for you and the twins right? Good luck Melody, I hope to see you soon back here!


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## Schmidt (Aug 25, 2013)

About kids and funny things they do/say:
we were sitting around the dinner table, talking about rich and poor people around the world. My wife says something like "We don't have a lot of money, but at least we get food on the table everyday" to which my youngest son replied "yeah, and it is usually Alexander who is making a mess"


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## sneaklyfox (Aug 25, 2013)

MarcelP said:


> LOL, kids can be very visualizing..  Tomorrow is the big day for you and the twins right? Good luck Melody, I hope to see you soon back here!


Yes, tomorrow is the big day so I'll be out for awhile. (I think I'm in the hospital for ~4 days.) See you when I get back!



Schmidt said:


> About kids and funny things they do/say:
> we were sitting around the dinner table, talking about rich and poor people around the world. My wife says something like "We don't have a lot of money, but at least we get food on the table everyday" to which my youngest son replied "yeah, and it is usually Alexander who is making a mess"


lol


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## Lchu613 (Aug 25, 2013)

Haha that's genius.


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## Schmidt (Aug 25, 2013)

@Sneaklyfox: Have fun tomorrow! And if you don't get that UWR in labour, there's always next time


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## sneaklyfox (Aug 25, 2013)

Schmidt said:


> @Sneaklyfox: Have fun tomorrow! And if you don't get that UWR in labour, there's always next time



Aha... "next time"... riiiight. I don't think there will be any labour, unfortunately. I was hoping on it. And somehow I don't think they would really let me do UWR for cubing during C-section because I'm not supposed to move my arms or something. I think things happen very quickly anyway so I can't miss the babies' birth. The best I'd do would probably be like... cubing before C-section like while I'm waiting or something with an IV sticking out of my arm lol but that's boring in comparison. Well, we'll see what there's time for...


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## mark49152 (Aug 25, 2013)

My partner had a C-section and they tried to distract her with conversation while the curtain was up during surgery. Cubing would probably be a good distraction. You could set a challenge like race the surgeons - try to get that ao12 done before they drop the curtain and say here's your twins!


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## MarcelP (Aug 25, 2013)

LOL, sneaklyfox racing against surgeons.. LOL


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## MarcelP (Aug 26, 2013)

After reading some random Color neutral topic here on Speedsolving.com this weekend, I went to check what my current CN status is. I did an Ao50 CN and then an all white cross Ao50.. It was shocking to see I got a 24.9X on color neutral and 27.xx on white cross.. Wow. did not see that comming. All the hard crosses on white only really mess up my averages... I am so glad now that I am really CN. Maybe I should also work on hard crosses


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## kunparekh18 (Aug 26, 2013)

MarcelP said:


> After reading some random Color neutral topic here on Speedsolving.com this weekend, I went to check what my current CN status is. I did an Ao50 CN and then an all white cross Ao50.. It was shocking to see I got a 24.9X on color neutral and 27.xx on white cross.. Wow. did not see that comming. All the hard crosses on white only really mess up my averages... I am so glad now that I am really CN. Maybe I should also work on hard crosses



That's cause you did white ao50 after cn ao50, recog would've been shaky

Do a white ao50 first, and then a cn ao50, then see the results


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## MarcelP (Aug 26, 2013)

Ok, I will do that too this week.


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## sneaklyfox (Aug 29, 2013)

Hey... got home today...


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## mark49152 (Aug 29, 2013)

sneaklyfox said:


> Hey... got home today...


Hey Sneaklyfox! What's your news? How are the twins?


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## sneaklyfox (Aug 29, 2013)

mark49152 said:


> Hey Sneaklyfox! What's your news? How are the twins?



Had the twins by C-section. Timothy was 6lbs 11oz and Elizabeth was 6lbs 12oz (rather bigger than I expected for twins). I tried doing a couple solves before the surgery with an IV sticking in my arm heh... will see if I can upload video sometime in future. So now I'm just recovering... plus all the stuff you do with a newborn in the house (x2). The babies are really cute!


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## slinky773 (Aug 29, 2013)

Huzzah!


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## mark49152 (Aug 29, 2013)

sneaklyfox said:


> Had the twins by C-section. Timothy was 6lbs 11oz and Elizabeth was 6lbs 12oz (rather bigger than I expected for twins). I tried doing a couple solves before the surgery with an IV sticking in my arm heh... will see if I can upload video sometime in future. So now I'm just recovering... plus all the stuff you do with a newborn in the house (x2). The babies are really cute!


Wow, great news! Congratulations! 

Video of you cubing on the operating table, please


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## pipkiksass (Aug 30, 2013)

Congrats!

Babies love cubes - my daughter picks up my cube when I put it down, she concentrates on it and tries to frantically move her hands across it like I do... but usually nothing moves, it's adorable!

Take some well deserved time out. They grow up too fast (but you know that already!).


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## MarcelP (Aug 30, 2013)

Hi Melody! I have been wondering how you where. That's good news. Enjoy this time now that they are so tiny.


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## MarcelP (Aug 30, 2013)

I thought I had a new PB of 13.00 seconds. But when I watched the video back on PC it's only a 21 seconds solve. Go to 2.06 and try to figure out what I did wrong?

[video=youtube_share;lVUM_hgYw-k]http://youtu.be/lVUM_hgYw-k[/video]


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## ThomasJE (Aug 30, 2013)

At 2:21, if you look at the lights on the timer, they turn off. That is when the timer stopped. Your right hand was nowhere near the pad; so it must be a malfunction of some sort. Has it happened before or after?


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## MarcelP (Aug 30, 2013)

Never happened before and after.. Strange.. I call this my 'good mood' timer for now. 

Btw, I had a 16.66 on this scramble: R2 B2 U' R2 L2 U' L2 D U2 L2 D F L F R' F R L U' (did it on green cross and picked my first pair in inspection)


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## MarcelP (Aug 30, 2013)

kunparekh18 said:


> That's cause you did white ao50 after cn ao50, recog would've been shaky
> 
> Do a white ao50 first, and then a cn ao50, then see the results


Ok, I did two Ao25's (due to lack of time). The first one was white cross only. I did a few solves to warm up first.

Results:

Mean: 26.00
Average: 26.10
Best time: 18.99
Median: 26.08
Worst time: 30.55
Standard deviation: 2.34

Best average of 5: 25.09
5-9 - 24.77 (28.86) 24.16 26.35 (23.07)

Best average of 12: 25.42
7-18 - 24.16 26.35 23.07 26.72 (28.05) 25.36 26.08 (18.99) 26.00 24.30 26.80 25.32

Then I took a coffey brake and did another 25 color neutral:

Mean: 24.27
Average: 24.24
Best time: 18.49
Median: 24.07
Worst time: 30.62
Standard deviation: 3.11

Best average of 5: 21.63
17-21 - (18.49) (29.75) 24.64 21.56 18.68

Best average of 12: 22.70
14-25 - 25.45 21.74 21.35 (18.49) (29.75) 24.64 21.56 18.68 22.50 23.85 25.39 21.88

There is no doubt that my CN solves are better  I just have real problems with hard crosses.


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## mark49152 (Aug 30, 2013)

ThomasJE said:


> At 2:21, if you look at the lights on the timer, they turn off. That is when the timer stopped. Your right hand was nowhere near the pad; so it must be a malfunction of some sort. Has it happened before or after?


Has it ever mysteriously stopped at 4.41?


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## MarcelP (Aug 30, 2013)

Only once when I was in Mexico


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## sneaklyfox (Aug 30, 2013)

MarcelP said:


> Then I took a coffey brake and did another 25 color neutral



That's why... you cheated with coffee!

Ok, that other solve where the timer stopped early was weird. It would feel great though to have a timer that always stopped a second early (or was just a little slow or something).


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## YddEd (Aug 31, 2013)

MarcelP said:


> I thought I had a new PB of 13.00 seconds. But when I watched the video back on PC it's only a 21 seconds solve. Go to 2.06 and try to figure out what I did wrong?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It's probably because the timer isn't from speedstacks 
Or maybe batteries?


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## kcl (Aug 31, 2013)

Speaking of coffee.. I always get really good averages when I'm on caffeine haha. Except when I drink coffee in the morning while cubing, and forget to eat breakfast and then I get all shaky and get crappy times


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## MarcelP (Aug 31, 2013)

Ok, Yesterday I broke my Ao12 PB with 22.70 and today I broke my Ao5 PB during an Ao100:



Spoiler



Mean: 25.24
Average: 25.24
Best time: 17.23
Median: 25.33
Worst time: 33.06
Standard deviation: 2.95

Best average of 5: 21.17
95-99 - 20.92 21.23 (26.51) 21.37 (17.23)

Best average of 12: 23.73
5-16 - 25.53 23.95 (19.51) 25.46 21.92 24.18 (29.39) 19.92 23.17 23.03 25.50 24.64



I have been working (or I should say focus on) turning slow during F2L. The last few days I have had a great number of 19.XX solves, a few 18.XX and one 17.23 and even an 16.66 (the cool scramble from yesterday: http://youtu.be/NtZ74RV5e8o) Still I feel I can improve so much in this area.


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## sneaklyfox (Aug 31, 2013)

MarcelP said:


> Ok, Yesterday I broke my Ao12 PB with 22.70 and today I broke my Ao5 PB during an Ao100:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Awesome, Marcel! Now drink more coffee.


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## MarcelP (Aug 31, 2013)

sneaklyfox said:


> Awesome, Marcel! Now drink more coffee.



LOL.. Coffee. cube drug


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## kcl (Aug 31, 2013)

*Hi, Marcel from Holland here*



MarcelP said:


> LOL.. Coffee. cube drug



True dat.. I got a Pyraminx yesterday and the coffee is helping me get sub 20 times


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## Yellowsnow98 (Aug 31, 2013)

MarcelP said:


> LOL.. Coffee. cube drug



Lol, you could be the Lance Armstrong of speedcubing


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## MarcelP (Aug 31, 2013)

kclejeune said:


> True dat.. I got a Pyraminx yesterday and the coffee is helping me get sub 20 times



Hey kclejeune,

I just saw a T-shirt with your avatar: http://www.spreadshirt.nl/melting-cube-C4408A23771671#/detail/23771671 Pretty cool.


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## kcl (Aug 31, 2013)

MarcelP said:


> Hey kclejeune,
> 
> I just saw a T-shirt with your avatar: http://www.spreadshirt.nl/melting-cube-C4408A23771671#/detail/23771671 Pretty cool.



Oh sweet! It's one of Sheldon Cooper's t shirts from the Big Bang theory


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## MarcelP (Sep 1, 2013)

I love that show!


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## kcl (Sep 2, 2013)

MarcelP said:


> I love that show!



Right? It's one of my top two favorite shows, right next to How I met your mother. I love them both, but I don't watch them much. I rarely watch TV.. Usually only the occasional show on Netflix.


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## Lchu613 (Sep 2, 2013)

TBBT is awesome. So is Top Gear UK.


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## pipkiksass (Sep 3, 2013)

kclejeune said:


> Oh sweet! It's one of Sheldon Cooper's t shirts from the Big Bang theory



I just saw this post, then _almost_ bought a shirt, before I noticed there's a white, orange, and yellow corner piece... and it's not Japanese colour scheme, because it's clearly red, white, blue clockwise on the visible faces. I'm not sure if I could wear this shirt now! LOL


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## kcl (Sep 3, 2013)

pipkiksass said:


> I just saw this post, then _almost_ bought a shirt, before I noticed there's a white, orange, and yellow corner piece... and it's not Japanese colour scheme, because it's clearly red, white, blue clockwise on the visible faces. I'm not sure if I could wear this shirt now! LOL



You can. Don't worry, it's still an awesome shirt. I might get one to wear at cubetcha.


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## pipkiksass (Sep 3, 2013)

kclejeune said:


> You can. Don't worry, it's still an awesome shirt. I might get one to wear at cubetcha.



Yeah I know... But once you see something, you can't un-see it!!


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## kcl (Sep 4, 2013)

pipkiksass said:


> Yeah I know... But once you see something, you can't un-see it!!



You're looking into this too far.. It's a t shirt.. With a Rubik's cube.. Melting. We done here? Lol


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## YddEd (Sep 4, 2013)

Just wondering.. has anyone else switched mains from the Weilong to anything? I switched to my 54.6mm B/P(rimary) Fangshi from my Weilong.


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## kcl (Sep 4, 2013)

YddEd said:


> Just wondering.. has anyone else switched mains from the Weilong to anything? I switched to my 54.6mm B/P(rimary) Fangshi from my Weilong.



I still use my Zhanchi a good bit still. I wouldn't call it my main, but it's good enough to be.


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## MarcelP (Sep 4, 2013)

I have gone back and fort between Weilong and ShuangRen V2 (original color). But I do get better times with the Weilong. I will receive my original color Weilong this week and I have put all my hopes on that one (untill the CX3 from Cyoubx is available).


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## sneaklyfox (Sep 4, 2013)

I'm still undecided between Shuangren v1, Weilong, and Zhanchi though I haven't restickered my Zhanchi or modded it so I play more with the SR and WL. With all these good cubes coming out, I think I'll wait a bit before ordering again. Yesterday I broke my PB Ao5 with the Weilong though... (by 0.01 lol). I wish I had all the nice cubes out there but it seems silly to own THAT many 3x3s. I don't even have any good higher order cubes.


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## MarcelP (Sep 4, 2013)

sneaklyfox said:


> I wish I had all the nice cubes out there but it seems silly to own THAT many 3x3s. I don't even have any good higher order cubes.



Silly?  No, life is too short to miss out on the things you really want to do. I have a large number of 3 X3's but use most of them. I love switching between them. 

Higher order cubes? What is that?


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## kcl (Sep 4, 2013)

MarcelP said:


> Silly?  No, life is too short to miss out on the things you really want to do. I have a large number of 3 X3's but use most of them. I love switching between them.
> 
> Higher order cubes? What is that?



Big cubes


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## sneaklyfox (Sep 4, 2013)

MarcelP said:


> Silly?  No, life is too short to miss out on the things you really want to do. I have a large number of 3 X3's but use most of them. I love switching between them.



Ok, let me rephrase that. *I* feel silly owning that many 3x3s. You owning that many 3x3s is really awesome and I'm envious.


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## Yellowsnow98 (Sep 4, 2013)

sneaklyfox said:


> Ok, let me rephrase that. *I* feel silly owning that many 3x3s. You owning that many 3x3s is really awesome and I'm envious.



I only own 4 speed 3x3s. But I believe them to be the best 4 available.

In order of preference:
Weilong
Guhong v2
HuanYing
Zhanchi (modded)

I'd like a SR but I'll wait til I'm getting other cubes too.


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## kunparekh18 (Sep 5, 2013)

I only own 1 speed 3x3 so yay me! xD


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## mark49152 (Sep 5, 2013)

sneaklyfox said:


> Ok, let me rephrase that. *I* feel silly owning that many 3x3s. You owning that many 3x3s is really awesome and I'm envious.


You're not alone there. I feel a bit silly too  I have about 20 3x3s and don't like to explain why to other people! I usually keep them hidden away


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## kcl (Sep 5, 2013)

mark49152 said:


> You're not alone there. I feel a bit silly too  I have about 20 3x3s and don't like to explain why to other people! I usually keep them hidden away



Lol I have 3 that are actually usable. 2 are stickerless and pretty bad (guhong v2 and zhanchi). My decent ones are a Weilong, Zhanchi, and Shengshou Wind


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## Gordon (Sep 5, 2013)

mark49152 said:


> You're not alone there. I feel a bit silly too  I have about 20 3x3s and don't like to explain why to other people! I usually keep them hidden away




Same for me. I don't even know how many I have to be honest... In February (http://gordoncubing.wordpress.com/2013/02/20/cubes/) I had 28 3x3s, but since then, I gave away a few and received some others. 

So my guess is around 35-40 :S


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## MarcelP (Sep 5, 2013)

Yeah, me too. I bought some new ones and gave away a few. Today my original color Weilong landed in Holland Jay!


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## MarcelP (Sep 7, 2013)

Yesterday I received my Original color Weilong.. Thoughts on this cube: OMG..

The pieces where allready put together and the centers where allready on the core (strange for a DIY kit). I don't mind since I am lazy  But they had it so tight that it was worse than a Rubiks brand. So I unscrewed a bit and put lube in. I did yesterday about 100 untimed solves. Just to get used to it. This morning I did 25 timed solves. It was 24.65 which is pretty OK for me. The last one:

25. 16.98 L2 D2 L2 B2 R2 B2 D' B2 U' R2 B' L U2 F2 D L2 B' F2 L2 U R


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## sneaklyfox (Sep 7, 2013)

MarcelP said:


> Yesterday I received my Original color Weilong.. Thoughts on this cube: OMG..



New main? Nice single, btw.


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## MarcelP (Sep 7, 2013)

sneaklyfox said:


> New main? Nice single, btw.



Definatly new main. And yeah, I don't have that many sub 17 solves. I think less than 5 full step (like this one).  I am really looking forward to the new CX3. I did not order it yet. I am waiting for the Chinese shop to have it available. I almost order two (white and black) from the Cubicle since I want to try their half bright and full bright fitted stickers. But I could stop my self from ordering. I do have no good experience with cubes from US (3 months to get here from PuzzleAddictions).

EDIT: I also did a Ao12 PB with the 'new main' yesterday


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## pipkiksass (Sep 7, 2013)

The cubicle are generally very good, I've ordered from then twice and both orders arrived within 4 or 5 days.


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## sneaklyfox (Sep 7, 2013)

MarcelP said:


> Definatly new main. And yeah, I don't have that many sub 17 solves. I think less than 5 full step (like this one).  I am really looking forward to the new CX3. I did not order it yet. I am waiting for the Chinese shop to have it available. I almost order two (white and black) from the Cubicle since I want to try their half bright and full bright fitted stickers. But I could stop my self from ordering. I do have no good experience with cubes from US (3 months to get here from PuzzleAddictions).
> 
> EDIT: I also did a Ao12 PB with the 'new main' yesterday



Yay for new PB!



pipkiksass said:


> The cubicle are generally very good, I've ordered from then twice and both orders arrived within 4 or 5 days.



But you're in the US. Marcel is in Holland...


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## kunparekh18 (Sep 7, 2013)

sneaklyfox said:


> But you're in the US. Marcel is in Holland...



He's in the UK


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## MarcelP (Sep 7, 2013)

kunparekh18 said:


> He's in the UK



Why do you think that? Look at the title of this topic


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## sneaklyfox (Sep 7, 2013)

MarcelP said:


> Why do you think that? Look at the title of this topic



Oops. He meant pipkiksass is in the UK. I thought pipkiksass was in the US and went to school in the UK. But 4-5 days to reach UK must be really good? Because I live in Canada and it takes that long.


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## ThomasJE (Sep 7, 2013)

A QJ Pyraminx from DinoDirect.com took 9 days to reach me. I'm not sure if they do cubes anymore, but they're definitely worth a look.

Also, looking forward to seeing what this Weilong hype is all about...


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## pipkiksass (Sep 7, 2013)

Nope, I'm in the UK, and my first cubicle order came in 5 days, including a US public holiday!

Can't imaging postage to Holland will take much longer, and Phil (asmallkitten) is a petty active forum member, if you DO have any problems.


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## MarcelP (Sep 7, 2013)

sneaklyfox said:


> Oops. He meant pipkiksass is in the UK. I thought pipkiksass was in the US and went to school in the UK. But 4-5 days to reach UK must be really good? Because I live in Canada and it takes that long.



Ahh that makes more sense..



ThomasJE said:


> Also, looking forward to seeing what this Weilong hype is all about...



Yeah, they are great  You should definitely try one.



pipkiksass said:


> Nope, I'm in the UK, and my first cubicle order came in 5 days, including a US public holiday!
> 
> Can't imaging postage to Holland will take much longer, and Phil (asmallkitten) is a petty active forum member, if you DO have any problems.



Okay, I ordered a bunch of stickers,. We will see when it gets here.


----------



## kcl (Sep 7, 2013)

MarcelP said:


> Ahh that makes more sense..
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I'm definitely ordering from them since I gotta get me some fitted Weilong stickers


----------



## sneaklyfox (Sep 7, 2013)

Ok this is weird... I just got a new PB Ao5 but... I got it on my 50mm Zhanchi?? I was taking it out to play with just for fun and laughs because it's so dinky small...


----------



## ThomasJE (Sep 7, 2013)

sneaklyfox said:


> Ok this is weird... I just got a new PB Ao5 but... I got it on my 50mm Zhanchi?? I was taking it out to play with just for fun and laughs because it's so dinky small...



Maybe it's better for fingertricks as it's smaller?

Also Marcel, how are you doing with 4x4?


----------



## sneaklyfox (Sep 7, 2013)

ThomasJE said:


> Maybe it's better for fingertricks as it's smaller?


Maybe but I don't think so. To me it feels locky and icky-half-gummy-and-dry slow. I never really use it to time but keep it in my purse for going out because of the size.


----------



## ThomasJE (Sep 7, 2013)

sneaklyfox said:


> Maybe but I don't think so. To me it feels locky and icky-half-gummy-and-dry slow. I never really use it to time but keep it in my purse for going out because of the size.



What cube were you using immediately before? Sometimes if you use a slower turning cube or a higher order cube, it makes a sort of pseudo effect like making the cube feel faster, or the stickers appear larger.


----------



## sneaklyfox (Sep 7, 2013)

ThomasJE said:


> What cube were you using immediately before? Sometimes if you use a slower turning cube or a higher order cube, it makes a sort of pseudo effect like making the cube feel faster, or the stickers appear larger.



Shuangren or Weilong I think. I forget which one.


----------



## MarcelP (Sep 7, 2013)

ThomasJE said:


> Also Marcel, how are you doing with 4x4?



Not great. I still average around 3 minutes.. I just do not practice enough to gain some progress. The 5X5 however I did make some progress. I was averaging 18 minutes a while back. Now I am sub 8


----------



## MarcelP (Sep 7, 2013)

kclejeune said:


> I'm definitely ordering from them since I gotta get me some fitted Weilong stickers



Yeah, I got for Weilong, Fangshi and modded 4X4 stickers


----------



## sneaklyfox (Sep 7, 2013)

MarcelP said:


> Not great. I still average around 3 minutes.. I just do not practice enough to gain some progress. The 5X5 however I did make some progress. I was averaging 18 minutes a while back. Now I am sub 8



I think you're faster than me at 5x5. I think maybe it takes me 10 minutes to do 5x5? How many more algs do you need to memorize to do 5x5? I still have to look algs up for the end.


----------



## kcl (Sep 7, 2013)

sneaklyfox said:


> I think you're faster than me at 5x5. I think maybe it takes me 10 minutes to do 5x5? How many more algs do you need to memorize to do 5x5? I still have to look algs up for the end.



You can get away with only 1. But for parity I know like maybe 3.


----------



## MarcelP (Sep 8, 2013)

sneaklyfox said:


> I think you're faster than me at 5x5. I think maybe it takes me 10 minutes to do 5x5? How many more algs do you need to memorize to do 5x5? I still have to look algs up for the end.



The first competition where I will be doing 5x5 has a 4 minute cutt-off, so it will not be this year where I will have an official 5X5 time.  I emailed the organiser to make the cutt-ff to 10 minutes. I doubt he will do that. 

I only learned one alg. The r2 B2 U2 l U2 r' U2 r U2 F2 r F2 l' B2 r2 to correct the tredge parity. All other cases can be done with 4X4 algs.



MarcelP said:


> Yeah, I got for Weilong, Fangshi and modded 4X4 stickers



I already got an email saying it is shipped with a tracjing number.. Pretty amazing (for a sunday)


----------



## YddEd (Sep 8, 2013)

kclejeune said:


> You can get away with only 1. But for parity I know like maybe 3.


Can you tell me the (one) alg? I just got a SS 5x5.
btw this SS 5x5 is just as horrible as my SS 4x4 v5. Edges going on top of each other, centres twisting in place, centres going on top of edges...


----------



## MarcelP (Sep 8, 2013)

YddEd said:


> Can you tell me the (one) alg? I just got a SS 5x5.
> btw this SS 5x5 is just as horrible as my SS 4x4 v5. Edges going on top of each other, centres twisting in place, centres going on top of edges...



Really? My 4X4's and 5X5 from ShengShou are all flawless.. The one alg is: r2 B2 U2 l U2 r' U2 r U2 F2 r F2 l' B2 r2


----------



## ThomasJE (Sep 8, 2013)

MarcelP said:


> The first competition where I will be doing 5x5 has a 4 minute cutt-off, so it will not be this year where I will have an official 5X5 time.  I emailed the organiser to make the cutt-ff to 10 minutes. I doubt he will do that.



Is that soft or hard cut-off? If it's soft, then you can get an official single; just not an official average.



MarcelP said:


> I only learned one alg. The r2 B2 U2 l U2 r' U2 r U2 F2 r F2 l' B2 r2 to correct the tredge parity. All other cases can be done with 4X4 algs.



I thought you needed more for different edge cases.


----------



## YddEd (Sep 8, 2013)

MarcelP said:


> Really? My 4X4's and 5X5 from ShengShou are all flawless.. The one alg is: r2 B2 U2 l U2 r' U2 r U2 F2 r F2 l' B2 r2


How did you tension your 5x5?


----------



## MarcelP (Sep 8, 2013)

ThomasJE said:


> Is that soft or hard cut-off? If it's soft, then you can get an official single; just not an official average.
> 
> 
> 
> I thought you needed more for different edge cases.



It's a hard cut-off, so I will get a DNF. Bleh! 

And no, with* Dw (R F') U (R' F) Dw'* and* L2 Dw2 [(R F') U (R' F)] Dw2* can you solve all the cases. Some may take multiple steps. Only the last tredge parity needs r2 B2 U2 l U2 r' U2 r U2 F2 r F2 l' B2 r2



YddEd said:


> How did you tension your 5x5?



I didn't. It was good out of the box, like all my ShengShous.


----------



## Yellowsnow98 (Sep 8, 2013)

Marcel, do you do 6x6 or 7x7?
Just curious


----------



## ThomasJE (Sep 8, 2013)

I believe he has a 6x6, but doesn't solve it much.


----------



## Yellowsnow98 (Sep 8, 2013)

ThomasJE said:


> I believe he has a 6x6, but doesn't solve it much.



Oh right.
Kinda like me and 7x7.
Last 7x7 solve I did took 45 minutes lol.


----------



## MarcelP (Sep 8, 2013)

Yeah, I have a 6X 6 and 7 X 7, Almost never solve them because it takes a whole evening LOL.


----------



## Yellowsnow98 (Sep 8, 2013)

MarcelP said:


> Yeah, I have a 6X 6 and 7 X 7, Almost never solve them because it takes a whole evening LOL.



Same here.
I just did my first timed 7x7 solve.
It was 24:42.22.
instead I could have done 3 or 4 5x5 solves.
So...
ain't nobody got time for 7x7


----------



## PeelingStickers (Sep 8, 2013)

MarcelP said:


> It's a hard cut-off, so I will get a DNF. Bleh!
> 
> And no, with* Dw (R F') U (R' F) Dw'* and* L2 Dw2 [(R F') U (R' F)] Dw2* can you solve all the cases. Some may take multiple steps. Only the last tredge parity needs r2 B2 U2 l U2 r' U2 r U2 F2 r F2 l' B2 r2




isn't the last one just OLL parity (on 4x4)?

All you need for the others is the edge flipping alg which you also use on 4x4.

You can learn a couple new algs for L2E but these aren't really necessary. Even Feliks doesn't use all of them iirc.


----------



## MarcelP (Sep 9, 2013)

PeelingStickers said:


> isn't the last one just OLL parity (on 4x4)?
> 
> All you need for the others is the edge flipping alg which you also use on 4x4.



No, that's the alg for this one:







How do you solve this one with 4X4 algs? I really want to know so I can forget the r2 B2 U2 l U2 r' U2 r U2 F2 r F2 l' B2 r2 alg.


----------



## Gordon (Sep 9, 2013)

This alg also fixes this parity on the 4x4:



What alg do you use for this parity on the 4x4?


Edit: and the alg is not that bad, just long, but I think it's easy to remember.


----------



## MarcelP (Sep 9, 2013)

Gordon said:


> This alg also fixes this parity on the 4x4:
> 
> View attachment 3098
> 
> What alg do you use for this parity on the 4x4?



I use this one on 4X4: Rw2 B2 Rw' U2 Rw' U2 x' U2 Rw' U2 Rw U2 Rw' U2 Rw2 U2 (I also hate this one..  )


----------



## MarcelP (Sep 13, 2013)

Ok, some new PB's today!!

I did an Ao100 and was not very doing great. Averaging high 25. Then at about the 80th solve I switched to my ShuangRen V2 and had nothing bu great times 

Mo3 *19.30*

Best average of 5: *20.21*
90-94 - 19.59 (17.57) 20.73 (21.14) 20.30

Best average of 12: *22.12*
85-96 - 22.60 20.95 25.10 (30.42) 24.98 19.59 (17.57) 20.73 21.14 20.30 21.41 24.39


----------



## kunparekh18 (Sep 13, 2013)

So close to a sub-20 avg5. Keep it up :tu


----------



## YddEd (Sep 13, 2013)

I have loads of events to practise and I'm switching to CN Roux, you're probably going to get faster than me again


----------



## MarcelP (Sep 13, 2013)

YddEd said:


> I have loads of events to practise and I'm switching to CN Roux, you're probably going to get faster than me again



I doubt it.. Although CN Roux seems very very hard to master (so I have heard..  )


----------



## sneaklyfox (Sep 13, 2013)

Awesome, Marcel! Sub-20 Ao5 GOGOGO.


----------



## MarcelP (Sep 13, 2013)

sneaklyfox said:


> Awesome, Marcel! Sub-20 Ao5 GOGOGO.



LOL. Thanks.

Also, I had my second Blindfold succes in about 200 solves. I don't know if BLD is really something for me  Also, I failed on the first try leaving three unsolved corners (meaning I messed up one setup or undo set up move).

Scramble (weekly competition 37)

R2 D' B2 D2 F2 U B2 U' L2 F' L' F2 L F R U B' D' R

Scramble and solve with white on U and green on F:
Edges: UJ OW IH DA NG (Huge ooooow In Huis DA drogist in de Nacht)
Corners: DB CW JP UP (Database in de Centrale Werkplaats van Jaap is UP and running)


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## ThomasJE (Sep 13, 2013)

MarcelP said:


> Also, I had my second Blindfold succes in about 200 solves. I don't know if BLD is really something for me  Also, I failed on the first try leaving three unsolved corners (meaning I messed up one setup or undo set up move).
> 
> Scramble (weekly competition 37)
> 
> ...



And you thought not to post your video here? 





Anyway, congrats on the success and new PB's! Have you got any videos of your PB's I could reconstruct?


----------



## MarcelP (Sep 13, 2013)

ThomasJE said:


> And you thought not to post your video here?
> 
> 
> Anyway, congrats on the success and new PB's! Have you got any videos of your PB's I could reconstruct?



LOL, I know most people are not interested in BLD and watching 5 minutes of BLD is very very boring  

Unfortunately did I not film any of these fast solves. Thanks for the offer of reconstruction though.


----------



## sneaklyfox (Sep 13, 2013)

So nice to get success. You've attempted 200 bld solves? I haven't even done a dozen. I've had 4 successes but that's because I take my time with memo. I'm much slower. What method do you use?


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## MarcelP (Sep 13, 2013)

I use Old Pochman style for excecution and letter pairs for memo. I try to make words for the letter pairs to make a sentence that I can remember. I have had only two successes in 3 months. I do at least 12 solves per week. My memory is my weakest point. Sometimes I get lucky with a scramble like this one with one edge in place and no braking into new cycles. Then remembering the letterpairs seems doable.


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## cubizh (Sep 13, 2013)

Comitting to a memory system that works for you is always the hardest part, because there's no magical recipe that works for everyone. You need to really try different combinations and see which one you deal with the better, but it requires comittment and a few tries.
Since you already know a letter scheme and how to execute, you should try a different way to memorize things, because making sentences is not always the easiest thing to do.

Consider the following:
Instead of trying to build a phrase with the letters you come up with in pairs, think of objects or people that relate to you or that you can immediately identify with or know. The idea is to place those items in an order that will be familiar to you so you can automatically recall without thinking too much about it. One of the easiest ways to memorize things is to place them in locations you use every single day, like rooms in your house.
You can certainly know instantly what is where in your house, like your own room or the kitchen.
Close your eyes and visualize spots where objects can be placed or do things. Organize this list of places in a room in a clockwise manner, from left to right always, so you know where to begin and end. For instance, I can see in your room, there's a chair, then the bed, then the computer table, .... think of up to 7 places so you have just enough space to memorize like the edges if you have cycles. You need two rooms, one for edges and one for corners.
The advantage of using this method is you don't have to think what comes next in your room after the bed, you know by heart it's the computer without thinking at all.

The memorization process will then only be thinking of putting these objects/people/something that relates to you in those places doing something. The most important thing is those letter pairs can't be random, they have to mean something that says something special to you.
For instance, to start memorizing let's say the memorization you had before, you used the UJ OW IH DA NG
Let's pretend just for an example that after your computer you have your own box of cubes, a trashcan, a window, and a closet.
So to start memorizing, always going left to right, think of *your* Uncle John (UJ) sitting in that chair, farting or picking his nose and sticking it to the bottom of the arms, cursing at you and waving his arms around or doing something that is very familiar to you. Then move on to the bed and place there an OWl, with its big eyes, tearing appart a small animal and eating it, filling the sheets of your bed with blood and small bones. Then you move on where the Increadible Hulk, (IH) is sitting at your computer, smashing your keyboard and punching your monitor in a very angry mood. Then you can see your friend DAniel peeling all the stickers from your cubes and smashing your favorite against the wall. See him laughing evily as he's destroying your entire collection. 
Then think of a big nigerian guy peeing into your trashcan, making all the stuff you have there kind of float around, smelling terrible.
It should be easier to go through the entire room you know by heart and reliving what's in each place. You can see these images more vividly and longer.
Do the same for another room you have in your house that you know very well, for the other set of pieces.
Remember that memory sticks better the more ugly, foul, sexual, disgusting and dirty it is and the closer to you the better. It's how our brains work and we should take advantage of that. Also, use your own language, no need to memorize in english. This was just an example, you need to make up your own things by yourself. It's your brain so it's only you that know what works better.

This of course was poorly written and not complete at all, and not the most optimized way to do it, but it should help think differently about memorization and improve success. You are not supposed to think while you are memorizing, you are supposed to feel the objects/persons/things that directly are close to you and say something to you and move on to the next location.
For further reference, see for instance Noah's channel on youtube, he has some good information about memorization. 
Hope that helps out in some way. Having so many blind failures is very very sad.


----------



## MarcelP (Sep 14, 2013)

cubizh said:


> Comitting to a memory system that works for you is always the hardest part, because there's no magical recipe that works for everyone. You need to really try different combinations and see which one you deal with the better, but it requires comittment and a few tries.
> Since you already know a letter scheme and how to execute, you should try a different way to memorize things, because making sentences is not always the easiest thing to do.
> 
> .. Having so many blind failures is very very sad.



Thanks for the explanation. I have read the theory of Elefant path several times but never figured how to apply. I even asked about it in the one question BLD one answer topic. Now I understand. Yeah for me memo is the hardest part. Seeing where the pieces go and keeping track of the parity, braking into new cycles and stuff keep me from concentrating on making a story. 

yeah, 2 out 200 solves success rate is not the greatest.  But hey, I have had many almost successes. I have had quite a few successes with half solved scrambles. Meaning I solve the cube half way before I start continue the rest doing BLD. I think it will get better in time


----------



## MarcelP (Sep 14, 2013)

MarcelP said:


> Okay, I ordered a bunch of stickers,. We will see when it gets here.



Okay, last Sunday I made the order. Today (Saturday) they came in. And they are awesome. I order different sets of fitted/ShuangRen and 4X4 stickers sets in half bright and full bright.

Looks like The Cubicle has a new sticker customer.


----------



## sneaklyfox (Sep 14, 2013)

MarcelP said:


> I use Old Pochman style for excecution and letter pairs for memo. I try to make words for the letter pairs to make a sentence that I can remember. I have had only two successes in 3 months. I do at least 12 solves per week. My memory is my weakest point. Sometimes I get lucky with a scramble like this one with one edge in place and no braking into new cycles. Then remembering the letterpairs seems doable.



Wow, 12 solves a week. I know for some people that is not much but it would be for me. I think doing BLD takes me like 10+ minutes or something though I have never actually timed myself. I'm soooo slow. But seeing you can do it in a few minutes... maybe I should practice my BLD and try to get under 5 minutes. I wonder if I would have enough motivation/time/energy to make one attempt a day...


----------



## MarcelP (Sep 15, 2013)

sneaklyfox said:


> I wonder if I would have enough motivation/time/energy to make one attempt a day...


I think I will cut down a bit on the BLD for a while. I want more focus on 3 X 3 speed. So.. Melody can you look at this walkthrough video of mine and tell me if I am on the righttrack to be a sub 20 solver? Anyone who wantto comment, please do:

[video=youtube_share;XrmUc4UWR34]http://youtu.be/XrmUc4UWR34[/video]


----------



## sneaklyfox (Sep 15, 2013)

I'm not used to seeing full brights on original colour plastic. If you really want my critique...

Solve 1
- actually I prefer D moves instead of u moves to align the cross edges because nothing moves on the top. But u is probably good if you can't see anything already.
- I'm not sure what you did for the last pair but it looked like a lot more moves than it needed to be.

Solve 2
- trick for the last cross edge at the bottom but flipped... if you can hold it so the wrong edge is in DR, you can do R'uR'u'
- 3rd pair... you probably noticed... you did U2 U2...

Solve 3
- too many cube rotations and too many moves on some pairs... you need to get more comfortable inserting pairs in the back maybe?
- need better PLL recognition

Solve 4
- not sure if because you're doing walkthrough... but cross wasn't very fingertrick friendly
- definitely need more efficient F2L... you have a lot of 11-move pairs and things

Solve 5
- yeah, it would help to not have a camera in your face lol. I can't solve a cube when I can't see what I'm doing either. 

In general:
- more fingertrick friendly crosses
- *need more efficient F2L* and less cube rotations during F2L
- when F2L corner pieces are stuck in the D layer, find better ways of getting them out and pairing with edge

I haven't mentioned look ahead. For walkthrough, make use of the slower solving to always track your next pair. Sometimes you finished a pair you were doing and didn't know what you were going to do next. Try more walkthroughs but instead of just "I am doing this pair now" also tell yourself "And I am tracking this pair". Hope this helps!

Unrelated: I practiced some BLD yesterday. I did 4 scrambles but didn't do any memo. Instead I just typed up the letter pairs I was going to do and solved the cube while looking at what I had typed. Just to practice figuring out the letters themselves faster (getting used to my letter scheme) and also making sure I know the setups and executions I do. I will work on the memo part later.


----------



## cubizh (Sep 15, 2013)

MarcelP said:


> I think I will cut down a bit on the BLD for a while.


You should cut down on cube rotations instead. Last solve has 7 cube rotations. Try to identify cases where you rotate and try to adjust the way things are solved without dancing with the cube so much. Most of the times it's only a matter of using the left hand to insert or learn mirror algs. The red face center seems red and the rest seems pink, that would throw completely off my lookahead, no idea how you use it like that.


----------



## Yellowsnow98 (Sep 15, 2013)

Marcel,
If you don't get to sub 20 I owe you €10, 000.


----------



## MarcelP (Sep 16, 2013)

sneaklyfox said:


> I'm not used to seeing full brights on original colour plastic. If you really want my critique...
> 
> Solve 1
> - actually I prefer D moves instead of u moves to align the cross edges because nothing moves on the top. But u is probably good if you can't see anything already.
> - I'm not sure what you did for the last pair but it looked like a lot more moves than it needed to be.



Yes, I use D2 more often than u2. But like you said, when you haven't found you first pair yet, u2 is a better option.



sneaklyfox said:


> Solve 2
> - trick for the last cross edge at the bottom but flipped... if you can hold it so the wrong edge is in DR, you can do R'uR'u'
> - 3rd pair... you probably noticed... you did U2 U2...



I do crosses normally without rotations and always with cross on D. But for the sake of walkthrough I did strange stuff. Yes, 3rd pair I did not know I was looking at the wrong cubies at first. Not sitting straight in front of my cube throws me off.



sneaklyfox said:


> - need better PLL recognition



Yeah, I need that. It's not something you can train quickly. I quess it comes with time. Now, sitting not in front of the cube and camera blocking my view does not help eighter 



sneaklyfox said:


> - definitely need more efficient F2L... you have a lot of 11-move pairs and things



Yes, I have been working on that. I am learning to do the advanced F2L cases. Most of the time however I still do the 'beginner' way which is waaaay faster for me. That way I can do it without thinking and start looking for the next pair.

For example Set up R U' R' F' L' U' L F

F' L' U L F R U R' is the shortest way doing this case. For me it is a lot quicker just to do a rotation _y' U' brake them up and set up for insert.. making way to many moves.._




sneaklyfox said:


> In general:
> - more fingertrick friendly crosses
> - *need more efficient F2L* and less cube rotations during F2L
> - when F2L corner pieces are stuck in the D layer, find better ways of getting them out and pairing with edge
> ...



I practice slow solves quite a lot. And in real solves I am doing better and better in not pauzing. When I am in the zone I can look ahead all pairs without pause. Still needs a lot of work for me to become sub 20 though. Thanks for your comments.



sneaklyfox said:


> Unrelated: I practiced some BLD yesterday. I did 4 scrambles but didn't do any memo. Instead I just typed up the letter pairs I was going to do and solved the cube while looking at what I had typed. Just to practice figuring out the letters themselves faster (getting used to my letter scheme) and also making sure I know the setups and executions I do. I will work on the memo part later.



And did you get a 4/4 success? 



cubizh said:


> You should cut down on cube rotations instead. Last solve has 7 cube rotations. Try to identify cases where you rotate and try to adjust the way things are solved without dancing with the cube so much. Most of the times it's only a matter of using the left hand to insert or learn mirror algs. The red face center seems red and the rest seems pink, that would throw completely off my lookahead, no idea how you use it like that.


The camera just does not capture the true colors. In real life the contrast is very good. The pink shows really weird on camera.



Yellowsnow98 said:


> Marcel,
> If you don't get to sub 20 I owe you €10, 000.



Ha ha ha... I think it will take at least one more year. We'll see.


----------



## ben1996123 (Sep 16, 2013)

why dont you scramble corners


----------



## MarcelP (Sep 16, 2013)

ben1996123 said:


> why dont you scramble corners



LOL, you picked up on that huh? With hand scrambles I seem to repeat the same thing that sometimes leaves corners solved. I have had cubes come to complete solved state with 1 minute handscrambles.. LOL..


----------



## sneaklyfox (Sep 16, 2013)

MarcelP said:


> And did you get a 4/4 success?



I got 3/4.


----------



## MarcelP (Sep 19, 2013)

sneaklyfox said:


> I got 3/4.



Very nice.. One tip for fast Letter orientation. First remember the A, E, I, M, Q and U. If you can point them with a finger (Blind) in one second then it is quite easy to spot N or a P or L or what ever.. And after doing some solves you will find that some come without thinking.


----------



## Antonie faz fan (Sep 19, 2013)

Hey marcel her a question what is you're PB avg and single?
Also if u have problem with F2l cross or LL don't mind asking me at amstelveen It would be a pleasure to help you out.


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## MarcelP (Sep 19, 2013)

Antonie faz fan said:


> Hey marcel her a question what is you're PB avg and single?
> Also if u have problem with F2l cross or LL don't mind asking me at amstelveen It would be a pleasure to help you out.



I average about 26 seconds on 3 X 3. I would love to get an offical 26 average. I have had a few sub 25 Ao100. Only on a good day I can pull that off.


----------



## Antonie faz fan (Sep 19, 2013)

MarcelP said:


> I average about 26 seconds on 3 X 3. I would love to get an offical 26 average. I have had a few sub 25 Ao100. Only on a good day I can pull that off.



If u want i can give u tips to improve well ofcourse if u want


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## MarcelP (Sep 19, 2013)

Antonie faz fan said:


> If u want i can give u tips to improve well ofcourse if u want



Damn sure I want that! I will look you up.


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## Antonie faz fan (Sep 19, 2013)

MarcelP said:


> Damn sure I want that! I will look you up.



Ok


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## ThomasJE (Sep 19, 2013)

If you're interested, here's my first Ao100 with my Weilong:

number of times: 100/100
best time: 15.66
worst time: 38.05

current avg5: 23.92 (σ = 0.56)
best avg5: 18.91 (σ = 1.73)

current avg12: 24.00 (σ = 1.01)
best avg12: 21.08 (σ = 2.43)

current avg100: 22.86 (σ = 3.45)
best avg100: 22.86 (σ = 3.45)

session avg: 22.86 (σ = 3.45)
session mean: 22.94

22.31, 23.56, 22.56, 19.39, 22.67, 29.92, 23.33, 15.66, 18.20, 34.50, 21.78, 21.58, 23.58, 23.98, 22.74, 15.70, 24.11, 23.30, 22.91, 38.05, 23.95, 24.70, 24.94, 18.13, 24.74+, 17.39, 21.34, 19.41, 27.38, 22.19, 18.02, 21.09, 21.11, 25.53, 19.20, 25.58, 30.42, 21.52, 20.72, 20.63, 24.53, 19.74, 26.31, 24.34, 20.02, 22.00, 18.78, 20.00, 27.28, 17.92, 23.53, 19.17, 21.33, 26.52, 19.03, 21.34, 32.58, 21.75, 22.41, 21.67, 21.02, 23.03, 20.03, 25.92, 19.26, 24.66, 21.52, 25.31, 21.07, 23.16, 22.10, 20.62, 27.40, 29.99+, 28.84, 23.60, 24.52, 18.20, 19.30, 23.02, 27.60, 17.60, 21.77, 17.69, 17.68, 21.35, 29.99, 21.75, 27.98, 23.79, 20.24, 25.29, 24.07, 24.66, 22.72, 24.53, 23.18, 25.49, 22.21, 24.04


----------



## MarcelP (Sep 19, 2013)

ThomasJE said:


> If you're interested, here's my first Ao100 with my Weilong:
> 
> number of times: 100/100
> best time: 15.66
> ...



Nice!! I just now realise you are not far off my times. I just had a new Pb with my CX3 ao12 00:22.07 and then the next solve was 19.XX making a new ao12 PB of 21.78


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## sneaklyfox (Sep 19, 2013)

MarcelP said:


> Very nice.. One tip for fast Letter orientation. First remember the A, E, I, M, Q and U. If you can point them with a finger (Blind) in one second then it is quite easy to spot N or a P or L or what ever.. And after doing some solves you will find that some come without thinking.



Actually, I don't use Speffz. I use my own system but yes, I remember where a few letters are like where 'A' is to figure out B, C, D...


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## ThomasJE (Sep 19, 2013)

MarcelP said:


> Nice!! I just now realise you are not far off my times. I just had a new Pb with my CX3 ao12 00:22.07 and then the next solve was 19.XX making a new ao12 PB of 21.78



Indeed... You are quite close. I need to get faster  I'm still getting used to the brighter colours.


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## sneaklyfox (Sep 21, 2013)

Marcel, how do you practice BLD? Because I have been practicing different parts so far... not really doing the full thing. Like, a couple days ago I was writing down the letter pairs and then solving the cube without looking at the cube but looking at the "cheat sheet" instead. I think I would practice some more like this sometimes. And then yesterday and today I practiced some edges only with memo. So I actually didn't write down the letter pairs. I practiced finding the letters/stickers faster (I'm getting better) as well as setup and undo setup moves (more comfortable now) and did only edges. Sometimes I failed though and I wish I had not used a hand scramble so I could see what I did wrong. I still have not done any timing.

Also, I think the way I memo the edges is called "audio"? Can someone confirm this? Take Marcel's example: UJ OW IH DA NG
I would just read it as written something like "ujow ih dang" or "a joe ihh dang" making the H more pronounced in the sound. Sometimes if there are many consonants in a row like "PT JK MS" I would memo as something like "pot joke mess" and I don't seem to get confused about where the real vowels are.

Oh yeah, and for corners, I haven't yet figured out what memo system I'm going to use for it. I was thinking that in practice I would memo corners first (and safer) and then do memo edges because memory maybe more short term? I've heard of visual, numbers and tapping the corner, letter pairs (again), roman rooms, journey, making long detailed story (images). Sorry if some of these are actually the same thing. I'm totally a BLD noob. But I was thinking that I am always good at memorizing music so was trying to think if there is a system where I can memorize it like a tune and maybe also numbers (I'm pretty good with numbers too). I wonder if this has been tried before. I have no idea if it will be any good. I'm just thinking...


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## MarcelP (Sep 21, 2013)

sneaklyfox said:


> Marcel, how do you practice BLD?



Well, I do like this.. I handscramble the cube. Then, I solve cross on any side that I like. Then I make one or two pairs. This leaves about 5 - 6 edges and 4- 5 corners. Then I just start memo. I always do edges first since these are the hardest. This may sound as a stupid way to practice. But it gives me more successes and it helps me get used to memo/letter finding etc.

I use words for letter pairs. UJ = huge NG = nacht (ducth word for night).. I must confess that after my second BLD success I have not tried once.. I am little bumped out about how hard it is. I will pick it up again one of these days because I going to two competitions where I registered BLD


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## YddEd (Sep 21, 2013)

MarcelP said:


> I always do edges first since these are the hardest.


Hmm.. is this because your handscrambles nearly always leave the corners solved? (If not all, then most)


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## moralsh (Sep 21, 2013)

BLD is not that hard, really. Keep doing it and it well eventually come easy. (That said after doing 5 dnfs on a row in the build up for today's comp, keep an eye on cubecomps!)


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## MarcelP (Sep 21, 2013)

moralsh said:


> BLD is not that hard, really. Keep doing it and it well eventually come easy. (That said after doing 5 dnfs on a row in the build up for today's comp, keep an eye on cubecomps!)



Yeah! Good luck Raoul!!


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## MarcelP (Sep 21, 2013)

YddEd said:


> Hmm.. is this because your handscrambles nearly always leave the corners solved? (If not all, then most)



Yeah..


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## cubizh (Sep 21, 2013)

sneaklyfox said:


> Also, I think the way I memo the edges is called "audio"? Can someone confirm this? Take Marcel's example: UJ OW IH DA NG
> I would just read it as written something like "ujow ih dang" or "a joe ihh dang" making the H more pronounced in the sound. Sometimes if there are many consonants in a row like "PT JK MS" I would memo as something like "pot joke mess" and I don't seem to get confused about where the real vowels are.
> Oh yeah, and for corners, I haven't yet figured out what memo system I'm going to use for it. I was thinking that in practice I would memo corners first (and safer) and then do memo edges because memory maybe more short term? I've heard of visual, numbers and tapping the corner, letter pairs (again), roman rooms, journey, making long detailed story (images). Sorry if some of these are actually the same thing.


That is indeed audio, where you make a one syllable sound that you can automatically associate with the letter pair that you are memorizing. 
This is usually a very short term memory specially if you are making those associations on the spot. Best is to create a table with the best short words that you can think of so that next time is automatic. Personally I use it for corners, since there are usually around 7 targets, instead of the ~11, for edges.
Since it's usually impossible to associate these short words in a meaningful sequence, this method is usually used to memorize last and solve first, while those that use more powerful images that last longer in your memory to last.
My utmost respect to you for trying to practice BLD with a handful of small kids running around. I can only assume it's easier to make like an ice sculpt exhibition in central Africa


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## Yellowsnow98 (Sep 21, 2013)

Marcel, have you been practicing colour neutrality?
Because I saw you do an orange cross solve in your cx3 unboxing.


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## MarcelP (Sep 21, 2013)

cubizh said:


> My utmost respect to you for trying to practice BLD with a handful of small kids running around. I can only assume it's easier to make like an ice sculpt exhibition in central Africa



LOL, ditto that. I also do not understand She got a 13 second sinlge on the first competition.. Melody is hardcore cuber 



Yellowsnow98 said:


> Marcel, have you been practicing colour neutrality?
> Because I saw you do an orange cross solve in your cx3 unboxing.



No, I do not practice CN, I am CN. I only solve CN, I made the switch december 2012. Have been using CN ever since then. Right know I try to get back to single cross color (to see if it speeds up my times) but my times are worse on single color.


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## Yellowsnow98 (Sep 21, 2013)

MarcelP said:


> No, I do not practice CN, I am CN. I only solve CN, I made the switch december 2012. Have been using CN ever since then. Right know I try to get back to single cross color (to see if it speeds up my times) but my times are worse on single color.



Oh right, I never knew that. :fp
What were you averaging when you switched?


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## MarcelP (Sep 21, 2013)

Yellowsnow98 said:


> Oh right, I never knew that. :fp
> What were you averaging when you switched?



I was just graduated from the race to sub 30 when I made the switch. It took a full three months before I was sub 30 CN.


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## ThomasJE (Sep 21, 2013)

You may like to know that I have a 19.42 Ao5 video in the works. I may be uploading that if I don't get any faster averages on camera. But no promises yet...

EDIT: I would if I can convert MP4 to something that Windows Movie Maker accepts...


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## kunparekh18 (Sep 21, 2013)

ThomasJE said:


> You may like to know that I have a 19.42 Ao5 video in the works. I may be uploading that if I don't get any faster averages on camera. But no promises yet...
> 
> EDIT: I would if I can convert MP4 to something that Windows Movie Maker accepts...



Isn't it funny that Windows Movie Maker can work with m2ts streams but not with mp4? Lol


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## ThomasJE (Sep 21, 2013)

kunparekh18 said:


> Isn't it funny that Windows Movie Maker can work with m2ts streams but not with mp4? Lol



Anyone know anything that can convert MP4 to WMV?


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## Lchu613 (Sep 21, 2013)

Try this.

lol. Sorry.


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## ThomasJE (Sep 21, 2013)

Lchu613 said:


> Try this.
> 
> lol. Sorry.



But what one's best? Preferably one that you don't need to download a program for.


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## Lchu613 (Sep 21, 2013)

I've used this one before a number of times:
http://www.zamzar.com/convert/mp4-to-wmv/


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## sneaklyfox (Sep 21, 2013)

cubizh said:


> That is indeed audio, where you make a one syllable sound that you can automatically associate with the letter pair that you are memorizing.
> This is usually a very short term memory specially if you are making those associations on the spot. Best is to create a table with the best short words that you can think of so that next time is automatic. Personally I use it for corners, since there are usually around 7 targets, instead of the ~11, for edges.
> Since it's usually impossible to associate these short words in a meaningful sequence, this method is usually used to memorize last and solve first, while those that use more powerful images that last longer in your memory to last.


Thanks for confirming about it being audio memo. Yes, I make the associations on the spot right now (I guess cuz I'm still a noob?) but if two letter pairs in a row make a sound easy to memorize (like the DA NG) then I will memorize it as one sound instead of two. And sometimes if it looks better between letter pairs like "HC UB EA" for example I will remember "H CUBE A" instead. I also picture the letters in my mind while I do the audio thing actually. Yes, I was thinking I would memo it last and do edges first with the audio method. Also I look around the cube at the start and see if there are any flipped edges in place. I don't memorize letters for those but instead leave those edges to last and just remember where it is on the cube. I guess that part of it is "visual"?



cubizh said:


> My utmost respect to you for trying to practice BLD with a handful of small kids running around. I can only assume it's easier to make like an ice sculpt exhibition in central Africa


Oh, I have a lot of help at home right now. (We have a nanny and my father who comes a few times a week and my husband.) They mainly help with the three older kids while I am nursing the two babies all day and all night long... (feels like that anyway... I only got about 2 hours of sleep total in a bed in the last 24 hours and dozed in a recliner for short periods at a time). When I'm sitting there nursing and not sleeping I don't have much better to do so I grab my cube and stare at it and practice BLD. It's better than sighted solving because BLD doesn't require me to turn the cube and make noise to disturb the babies. And when I am doing the solving part, I can turn more slowly and carefully to stay quiet. Funny how everytime I had a baby I practiced something different. Last time I practiced OH because of only having one hand at a time.



MarcelP said:


> LOL, ditto that. I also do not understand She got a 13 second sinlge on the first competition.. Melody is hardcore cuber


Nah, I'm not hardcore. If I didn't have all the kids running around, then maybe I'd be. And I would be doing big cubes too. As it is, I'm not even into 4x4. If you didn't go to comp until you were much faster you could also boast awesome times for your "first competition". I would have gone to competition the year previous and probably would only get ~23 at best... my 3rd kid was barely a month then though so that's why I didn't go.

Edit: Just timed my first BLD (edges only) solve. 2:05.89 memo and execution.


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## YddEd (Sep 22, 2013)

sneaklyfox said:


> but if two letter pairs in a row make a sound easy to memorize (like the DA NG) then I will memorize it as one sound instead of two.


What if you get something like SH IT etc.?


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## cubizh (Sep 22, 2013)

YddEd said:


> What if you get something like SH IT etc.?


It's alright to do that, but the problem with that is only consistency. Even though it can be appealing to do that, after you memorize a lot more stuff, when you recall later on, when you're starting you can't really remember if you memorized **** or just SH or was it SHI or SHT. Of course such a powerful word you do remember, but any random word the result is not always optimal. Not to mention the problems with parity and (if using M2) shooting to middle layers when already shot to an odd number of targets


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## sneaklyfox (Sep 22, 2013)

I don't think I have a problem memorizing even though it's not consistent because I would not memorize SH as "****" but as "sh" (I wouldn't try to memorize as swear words because I don't swear unless it's spelled exactly then I would leave it) and SHT depends on what's after it but also would not be "****" but might be "shot" or if there's something after like SH TK it would be "sh tak" instead. SHI might be "shi" again no curse word. So actually my rules for audio are I think fairly consistent that would not confuse me. Like I don't add "hard" consonants if they're not there.


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## sneaklyfox (Sep 22, 2013)

I don't think I have a problem memorizing even though it's not consistent because I would not memorize SH as "****" but as "sh" (I wouldn't try to memorize as swear words because I don't swear unless it's spelled exactly then I would leave it) and SHT depends on what's after it but also would not be "****" but might be "shot" or if there's something after like SH TK it would be "sh tak" instead. SHI might be "shi" again no curse word. So actually my rules for audio are I think fairly consistent that would not confuse me. Like I don't add "hard" consonants if they're not there.


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## MarcelP (Sep 23, 2013)

sneaklyfox said:


> Edit: Just timed my first BLD (edges only) solve. 2:05.89 memo and execution.



Very nice! That is rather quick! I was happy to read how you do flipped edges last. It never came to mind for me to look over the cube before starting memo..How stupid am I?


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## kcl (Sep 23, 2013)

MarcelP said:


> Very nice! That is rather quick! I was happy to read how you do flipped edges last. It never came to mind for me to look over the cube before starting memo..How stupid am I?



Well it's illegal in comp..


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## cubizh (Sep 23, 2013)

kclejeune said:


> Well it's illegal in comp..


There may be some mixup between the start of memorization with the start of the timer. There are tasks to be done before starting to absorb the cube state, (like pick the cube orientation).


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## kcl (Sep 23, 2013)

cubizh said:


> There may be some mixup between the start of memorization with the start of the timer. There are tasks to be done before starting to absorb the cube state, (like pick the cube orientation).



Yeah but I mean that's like choosing orientation for normal 3x3. It wouldn't give you an advantage..


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## MarcelP (Sep 23, 2013)

I have no clue what you two guys are talking about. Delegates brings cube, you have hands on timer, when you release hands you can pick up cover and grab the cube and then look for flipped edges before starting memo.


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## cubizh (Sep 23, 2013)

MarcelP said:


> I have no clue what you two guys are talking about. Delegates brings cube, you have hands on timer, when you release hands you can pick up cover and grab the cube and then look for flipped edges before starting memo.


I have no clue either, was just trying to clarify/spot the wrongfulness he detected on the previous post statement.
But to be more precise, the judge (which can be a delegate or not) brings the cube, you put hands on timer, when you release hands after 1.5 seconds, you can pick up cover and grab the cube and then move to your BLD orientation, then look for flipped edges before starting memo. On 3x3 blindfolded (and 5BLD) the previous steps can be done interchangeably due to the defined centers that odd layered cubes have. On even layered ones, one can not do the same.


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## sneaklyfox (Sep 23, 2013)

I think kclejeune's first post about it being "illegal" was a sarcastic remark. Maybe I don't get it either.


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## kcl (Sep 23, 2013)

MarcelP said:


> I have no clue what you two guys are talking about. Delegates brings cube, you have hands on timer, when you release hands you can pick up cover and grab the cube and then look for flipped edges before starting memo.



I thought you were talking about looking for flipped edges BEFORE starting the timer, which is illegal.. Unless I'm mistaken, you can't look at the cube until the timer starts in a BLD solve. It was a stupid error on my part..


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## MarcelP (Sep 29, 2013)

Nice one:

I don't get that many sub 18's and especially non lucky ones.

17.85 U R2 U' B2 U L2 U' L2 U' L2 D2 R' D' L D R2 D B L2 F' R'

[video=youtube_share;yeBKBHeTk-4]http://youtu.be/yeBKBHeTk-4[/video]


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## YddEd (Sep 29, 2013)

Nice. You should try turning at full speed for OLL and PLL. Also try to improve a bit more at lookahead (For F2L). Your F2L turning speed is fine.


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## ThomasJE (Sep 29, 2013)

MarcelP said:


> Nice one:
> 
> I don't get that many sub 18's and especially non lucky ones.
> 
> ...



Reconstructing now...


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## MarcelP (Sep 29, 2013)

YddEd said:


> Nice. You should try turning at full speed for OLL and PLL. Also try to improve a bit more at lookahead (For F2L). Your F2L turning speed is fine.



Yeah, thanks. I need to work on many things  LOL I did the last layer in sub 5 seconds btw. That is pretty ok for me.


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## ThomasJE (Sep 29, 2013)

*MarcelP - 17.85 NL Single*



Spoiler: Video










U R2 U' B2 U L2 U' L2 U' L2 D2 R' D' L D R2 D B L2 F' R'

x2 y' // Inspection
U L x U x' y R2 U' l' U l // Cross
_U U U_ L U' L' // F2L 1
U' R U2' R' U y' R' U' R // F2L 2
U y' R' U R U' y' L U L' // F2L 3
R U' R' U' R U' _U' U'_ R' U2 R U' R' // F2L 4
U R U2 R2 U' R2' U' R2 U2' R // OLL
_U U_ R U2 R' U' R U2 L' U R' U' L U // PLL
View at alg.garron.us

Stats:

```
[B]Step	Time	HTM	HTPS	ETM	ETPS[/B]
[COLOR="#FF0000"]Total	17.85	62	3.47	73	4.09[/COLOR]
Cross+1	4.80	12	2.50	17	3.54
F2L	11.69	39	3.34	49	4.19
LL	6.16	23	3.73	24	3.90
					
[B]%          	Time	HTM	ETM		[/B]
Cross+1/F2L	41.1%	30.8%	34.7%		
F2L/Total	65.5%	62.9%	67.1%		
LL/Total	34.5%	37.1%	32.9%
```

You did a few 'U U U' or 'U U' instead of either U' or U2 (these are _italicized_). These could save you half a second or so. Also, your LL TPS should be 1 or 2 higher than your F2L TPS; yours was only 0.39 HTPS faster. So there's a couple of things to improve on.


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## MarcelP (Sep 29, 2013)

Thanks Thomas! Last layer was slight slower than I expected


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## kunparekh18 (Sep 29, 2013)

Y u no do R U R' F' R U R' U' R' F R2 U' R' U'


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## sneaklyfox (Sep 29, 2013)

Sub-18 and no reaction? The sad thing about getting better at cubing is that there is less and less opportunity for an "impressive" solve. I remember a time when I would have whooped for a 17.85 solve.


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## Yellowsnow98 (Sep 29, 2013)

sneaklyfox said:


> Sub-18 and no reaction? The sad thing about getting better at cubing is that there is less and less opportunity for an "impressive" solve. I remember a time when I would have whooped for a 17.85 solve.



Imagine how faz feels:

"Oh, another sub 8. Not bad, but not brilliant."

I'm usually very happy to even get a sub 19 solve. (Though that's because I don't see myself breaking my pb single any time soon.)


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## MarcelP (Sep 29, 2013)

sneaklyfox said:


> Sub-18 and no reaction? The sad thing about getting better at cubing is that there is less and less opportunity for an "impressive" solve. I remember a time when I would have whooped for a 17.85 solve.



LOL.. Indeed no reaction. I had two more just before that. This was the only one on camera..


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## sneaklyfox (Sep 29, 2013)

Yellowsnow98 said:


> Imagine how faz feels:
> 
> "Oh, another sub 8. Not bad, but not brilliant."


Poor faz...


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## sneaklyfox (Oct 1, 2013)

Hey Marcel, what are you working on nowadays? OH? 3BLD? Guess what? I just did my first timed BLD solve ever and fortunately it was success! I'm so slow though you're a lot faster than me. 7:46.91 But no matter the slow time, a success is still :tu


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## MarcelP (Oct 1, 2013)

Video or it did not happen.. LOL.. No seriously that is awesome. I think my times range depending on no parity plus no extra cycles from 4 - 5 minutes to solves with parity and breaking into new cycles of at least 10 minutes.

Lately I have not done any BLD at all. Except weekly competition. I have been focussing on 3X3 expert F2L cases, OH and 4 X 4. I have improved quite a bit on 4 X 4 and I am getting closer to being sub 2


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## sneaklyfox (Oct 1, 2013)

MarcelP said:


> Video or it did not happen.. LOL.. No seriously that is awesome. I think my times range depending on no parity plus no extra cycles from 4 - 5 minutes to solves with parity and breaking into new cycles of at least 10 minutes.
> 
> Lately I have not done any BLD at all. Except weekly competition. I have been focussing on 3X3 expert F2L cases, OH and 4 X 4. I have improved quite a bit on 4 X 4 and I am getting closer to being sub 2



Haha, thanks. No video. Actually sometimes I was interrupted by my husband and had light conversation while I was doing the memo/solve. I was never into BLD at all and found it rather boring personally but now suddenly I'm more motivated to learn and practice it so when I feel the inclination I will do it. Maybe also I didn't really bother practicing before and so the thought of memorizing the whole cube (and still had to figure out what letter each sticker was and how to even do setup moves) was too daunting. It would take me like 20 minutes to memorize a cube and solve it or something and to have used all that time and get a failure seemed like a big waste of time. It was easier to practice when I took it in small steps. Like, I'm not bad with my edges and audio memo now. I haven't practiced much corners yet by comparison. I am trying PAO for corners (Person/Action/Object) and sometimes it's taking me a long time to come up with good words.

I'm not into 4x4 yet. I don't want to have to mod my cubes but I want an awesome cube so I'm waiting for them to mass produce pre-Florian/Konsta modded cubes. I know SS doesn't require these mods and they are good enough without but I know it will be much better with the mod so... I'm still waiting. You will be faster than me at 4x4. Are you using Yau or something else? When I did a little bit 4x4 I hadn't decided what method to use but I was doing some 32223.


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## MarcelP (Oct 1, 2013)

Yeah, I use Yau, and in the weekly comp from this week (40) I just broke Average PB with 2.14. MoYu has a 4 X 4 comming. It's on pre sale at HKNowstore and Calvin has a small video op with corner cutting. It looks like it cuts as much as a 3 X 3 cube which is no 4 X 4 of mine can do  I have not ordered it yet. I am waiting reviews on this one. It's 21 dollar pre order. So not cheap. I think it will be worth it though..


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## Yellowsnow98 (Oct 1, 2013)

MarcelP said:


> Yeah, I use Yau, and in the weekly comp from this week (40) I just broke Average PB with 2.14. MoYu has a 4 X 4 comming. It's on pre sale at HKNowstore and Calvin has a small video op with corner cutting. It looks like it cuts as much as a 3 X 3 cube which is no 4 X 4 of mine can do  I have not ordered it yet. I am waiting reviews on this one. It's 21 dollar pre order. So not cheap. I think it will be worth it though..



Oh yeah, I saw the MoYu 4x4. It looks pretty good. It's gotten me practicing 4x4 again.
Though my main focus will soon be square-1. (Once I get one)

Bonus points for knowing why I'm getting into square-1.

Edit: 4x4 OLL I saw in another thread:

Rw U2 Rw' U' R U r U2 Rw'


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## rj (Oct 1, 2013)

Yellowsnow98 said:


> Imagine how faz feels:
> 
> "Oh, another sub 8. Not bad, but not brilliant."
> 
> I'm usually very happy to even get a sub 19 solve. (Though that's because I don't see myself breaking my pb single any time soon.)



I'm beginning to get even more sub 20 solves, so it's a little bit of a big deal.


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## mark49152 (Oct 1, 2013)

MarcelP said:


> Yeah, I use Yau, and in the weekly comp from this week (40) I just broke Average PB with 2.14. MoYu has a 4 X 4 comming. It's on pre sale at HKNowstore and Calvin has a small video op with corner cutting. It looks like it cuts as much as a 3 X 3 cube which is no 4 X 4 of mine can do  I have not ordered it yet. I am waiting reviews on this one. It's 21 dollar pre order. So not cheap. I think it will be worth it though..



I have done nothing but 4x4 and 2x2 since I got fed up with my lack of 3x3 progress a few weeks ago. 4x4 ao12 is now 2:32 with single PB 2:05. Battle of the oldies?


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## MarcelP (Oct 1, 2013)

mark49152 said:


> I have done nothing but 4x4 and 2x2 since I got fed up with my lack of 3x3 progress a few weeks ago. 4x4 ao12 is now 2:32 with single PB 2:05. Battle of the oldies?



LOL.. Where are at same speed alright.. I wish I had practiced a little more so I could be sub 2 at a competition this month 

EDIT: in my Youtube is a video of this week 4X4 2.08 with double parity


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## sneaklyfox (Oct 1, 2013)

You know, you guys might be faster than me at 4x4. I do have a 4x4... it's some knockoff something... locks like crazy and has textured tiles. I wonder how fast I would be with that now. Maybe 2-2:30?


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## MarcelP (Oct 1, 2013)

sneaklyfox said:


> You know, you guys might be faster than me at 4x4. I do have a 4x4... it's some knockoff something... locks like crazy and has textured tiles. I wonder how fast I would be with that now. Maybe 2-2:30?



Well, sounds like a challenge.. Do a timed solve and tell us


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## mark49152 (Oct 1, 2013)

MarcelP said:


> LOL.. Where are at same speed alright.. I wish I had practiced a little more so I could be sub 2 at a competition this month
> 
> EDIT: in my Youtube is a video of this week 4X4 2.08 with double parity


Yeah I practised a lot but am still getting used to the edge pairing. I do it 2222, building two dedges in the back slots via one slice move, so that all remaining edges are easy to find, then alternating between the front two slots to build the last six dedges. I don't know if there's a "correct" way to d pairing in Yau. 

I also learned OLL and PLL algs that have parity embedded, so that I don't have to do extra steps. See the 4x4 help thread. The algs and recognition are actually pretty easy.


----------



## Schmidt (Oct 1, 2013)

Getting no parity helps
4x4x4 in the weekly 
1:37.11, 1:30.55, 1:32.59, 1:48.91, 1:30.71 = 1:33.47


----------



## MarcelP (Oct 2, 2013)

mark49152 said:


> I also learned OLL and PLL algs that have parity embedded, so that I don't have to do extra steps. See the 4x4 help thread. The algs and recognition are actually pretty easy.


With or without parity.. I don't care about that. And I know full OLL but I do not use it. I use two look OLL just because I have executed these OLL's a million times more and I am pretty sure I do not mess them up.. LOL  Doing LL on a 4X4 is so much harder than on a 3X3. Most of my fingertrick do not work. I think 50% of the times my PLLs fail.



Schmidt said:


> Getting no parity helps
> 4x4x4 in the weekly
> 1:37.11, 1:30.55, 1:32.59, 1:48.91, 1:30.71 = 1:33.47



Just when I thought I was closing in on you..


----------



## mark49152 (Oct 2, 2013)

MarcelP said:


> With or without parity.. I don't care about that. And I know full OLL but I do not use it. I use two look OLL just because I have executed these OLL's a million times more and I am pretty sure I do not mess them up.. LOL  Doing LL on a 4X4 is so much harder than on a 3X3. Most of my fingertrick do not work. I think 50% of the times my PLLs fail.


I should fix my own post - I meant 2-look OLL and 2-look PLL with parity embedded. So there's 2 extra EO algs, for 1 and 3 edges flipped, and 3 extra EPLLs - W-perm, Oa and Ob-perm - as well as the adjacent and opposite swaps. So always 4 steps for LL regardless of parity.

Learning full OLL all over again with parity embedded would be way out of my league, but it has been done! 

I agree with you regarding LL on 4x4. Recognition and execution are both harder. If I try to do full PLL I usually either screw up the alg or arrive at some other PLL case, or parity. That's why I prefer 2-look. I do A and V-perm for corners and my finger tricks are OK for those.

4x4 is a great puzzle though. So much more going on, and I think I prefer it to 3x3.


----------



## MarcelP (Oct 2, 2013)

mark49152 said:


> 4x4 is a great puzzle though. So much more going on, and I think I prefer it to 3x3.



It's growing on me aswel  But 3 X 3 is still my favorite.


----------



## mark49152 (Oct 2, 2013)

MarcelP said:


> It's growing on me aswel  But 3 X 3 is still my favorite.


4x4 is like my new favourite going out shirt. But I still love 3x3 like the old tracksuit I wear around the house.


----------



## Schmidt (Oct 2, 2013)

You dropped a minute in a month (3:15.xx to 2:15.xx) so 45s is not a problem for you, is it?!?


----------



## sneaklyfox (Oct 2, 2013)

MarcelP said:


> Well, sounds like a challenge.. Do a timed solve and tell us



Ok sure. I will do this as soon as I relearn that parity algorithm and dust off my 4x4...


----------



## MarcelP (Oct 3, 2013)

Schmidt said:


> You dropped a minute in a month (3:15.xx to 2:15.xx) so 45s is not a problem for you, is it?!?



Yes, I have been practicing a bit  Also different set of stickers helped 



sneaklyfox said:


> Ok sure. I will do this as soon as I relearn that parity algorithm and dust off my 4x4...



Watch this. One awesome alg for all big cubes.
[video=youtube_share;OGpQrUuWmWo]http://youtu.be/OGpQrUuWmWo[/video]


----------



## mark49152 (Oct 3, 2013)

MarcelP said:


> Watch this. One awesome alg for all big cubes.


A neat trick: to flip three edges, put the good edge at the right and do the above alg with a B' R' setup and R B to undo.

If you like choice, the following page is completely insane: http://www.speedsolving.com/wiki/index.php/4x4x4_Parity_Algorithms

I spent a week trawling through that page trying loads of different algs and eventually chose one that is the inverse of what Marcel just posted. Both are great, and my old alg didn't work with the 3-edge flip!

My EPLL and EOLL with parity algs are in this thread: http://www.speedsolving.com/forum/s...nd-Help-thread&p=901115&viewfull=1#post901115


----------



## MarcelP (Oct 3, 2013)

mark49152 said:


> A neat trick: to flip three edges, put the good edge at the right and do the above alg with a B' R' setup and R B to undo.
> 
> If you like choice, the following page is completely insane: http://www.speedsolving.com/wiki/index.php/4x4x4_Parity_Algorithms
> 
> ...



Thanks. I have a comp in two weeks. I might spend little more time on 4 X 4 to see if I actually can get a sub 2 single offcial


----------



## mark49152 (Oct 3, 2013)

Just broke ao12 PB again : 2:29.69. Under 2.5 at last!


----------



## sneaklyfox (Oct 3, 2013)

2:43.90 Told ya I sucked.

Next five solves Ao5: 2.28.40
(2:02.15), 2:35.24, 2:30.85, (2:54.13), 2:19.12

Either I turn very inaccurately or my 4x4 really sucks or both...

Edit: I'm not even going to bother practicing because the cube is no fun to play with.


----------



## cubizh (Oct 3, 2013)

If you want to see if you're faster/slower in 4x4 than people with the same average as you in 3x3, you can check here.


----------



## Yellowsnow98 (Oct 3, 2013)

For anyone who uses an MU Z perm on 4x4 I use this.

R' U' R2 U R U R' U' R U R U' R U' R' U2.

looks very long but being 2gen it can still be done pretty fast if you don't like M slices on 4x4.


----------



## sneaklyfox (Oct 3, 2013)

Yellowsnow98 said:


> For anyone who uses an MU Z perm on 4x4 I use this.
> 
> R' U' R2 U R U R' U' R U R U' R U' R' U2.
> 
> looks very long but being 2gen it can still be done pretty fast if you don't like M slices on 4x4.



I know I'm slower at 4x4 than people with the same 3x3 average as me. I would use this 2-gen Z perm (same as OH alg I use):

R' U' R U' R U R U' R' U R U R2 U' R' (U2)

which is the the inverse (?) of the one above.


----------



## mark49152 (Oct 3, 2013)

cubizh said:


> If you want to see if you're faster/slower in 4x4 than people with the same average as you in 3x3, you can check here.


My targets are to be roughly 4x WR average for each event. So (roughly) sub-30 for 3x3, sub-2:00 for 4x4, and sub-8 for 2x2. I'm nearly there for 3x3 which is why I chose that target; for 2x2 and 4x4 I'm currently 5x so have some catching up to do to match my 3x3 standard.

Edit: fascinating data. I'm spot on the line for 4x4, and faster than predicted on 2x2!


----------



## MarcelP (Oct 4, 2013)

cubizh said:


> If you want to see if you're faster/slower in 4x4 than people with the same average as you in 3x3, you can check here.



Cool! Interesting..


mark49152 said:


> Just broke ao12 PB again : 2:29.69. Under 2.5 at last!


Congrats! 


sneaklyfox said:


> 2:43.90 Told ya I sucked.
> 
> Next five solves Ao5: 2.28.40
> (2:02.15), 2:35.24, 2:30.85, (2:54.13), 2:19.12



Last Ao5 that I did was over 3 minutes.. Talk abot sucking... Bleh! 


But.. I am feeling more consistent on the 3 X 3:

Ao12 = *22.78*



Spoiler



1. 23.15 U' F2 U R2 U2 B2 U' R2 U' L2 U' R U2 F2 L' U F' U2 F2 L U'
2. 23.95 R2 B2 U2 B2 D2 L2 D2 F2 U F2 U2 F' D' F2 R' U' L' U2 B' F' R U
3. 23.44 U F2 U' R2 U' L2 B2 L2 U2 R2 U F D2 U' R' B' R2 U L D' L' F'
4. 21.57 D' R2 B2 D F2 L2 B2 L2 D' R2 D2 B R B' L' B2 F2 D' R' F D'
5. 22.09 L2 B2 L2 U L2 D' B2 L2 D L2 B2 L R2 U' F' U B' U2 R F2 D U'
6. 23.63 B2 D2 U R2 D2 B2 R2 F2 U R2 D2 L' D2 F' R U2 L B' U2 B' L
7. 22.40 D R2 B2 U R2 D B2 D R2 D2 F2 R D F U' B2 F L2 B F2 R2
8. 22.62 U R2 U R2 D' L2 B2 R2 L2 U2 L2 B' U2 F2 U R B2 L F D' L D2
9. 22.95 U2 L2 D B2 D2 L2 F2 R2 U L2 U' R L F2 U' R F U2 B D' R'
10. 26.67 F2 U F2 U2 B2 L2 F2 U2 R2 D U2 L' B2 F' L2 D' R2 F2 D B2 R U2
11. 21.50 F2 D' B2 D R2 L2 U R2 B2 U' L' B2 U R L D R' L' F' U
12. 22.04 D' R2 L2 D2 R2 D' R2 U' B2 R2 U2 L' F' R U2 R' F R D2 F L2 U'


[video=youtube_share;-MzqnlJHLjk]http://youtu.be/-MzqnlJHLjk[/video]


----------



## Yellowsnow98 (Oct 4, 2013)

MarcelP said:


> Cool! Interesting..
> 
> Congrats!
> 
> ...


Thats really consistent. You're improving very quickly.

And you're pulling away from me. I'm still at around 26-28. School is limiting my time to practice.

Though last Sunday I got a 28.xx ao100. I'm colour neutral now too.


----------



## MarcelP (Oct 4, 2013)

Yellowsnow98 said:


> Thats really consistent. You're improving very quickly.
> 
> And you're pulling away from me. I'm still at around 26-28. School is limiting my time to practice.
> 
> Though last Sunday I got a 28.xx ao100. I'm colour neutral now too.



Color neutral is for the cool people he? LOL.. Your times will drop considerably after all color filter really has set in.. Don't worry. this video is an exceptional good Ao12 for me. My PB is just one second slower.. I have my good days and my bad days. This week I had two Ao100 the where 26.XX I was affraid that upcomming competitions is making my times worse. Somehow competition stress affect my times.. LOL.. But today I had a 24.67 Ao100 with this Ao12 in it. So I still have my mojo I guess.


----------



## Ninja Storm (Oct 4, 2013)

MarcelP said:


> Color neutral is for the cool people he? LOL.. Your times will drop considerably after all color filter really has set in.. Don't worry. this video is an exceptional good Ao12 for me. My PB is just one second slower.. I have my good days and my bad days. This week I had two Ao100 the where 26.XX I was affraid that upcomming competitions is making my times worse. Somehow competition stress affect my times.. LOL.. But today I had a 24.67 Ao100 with this Ao12 in it. So I still have my mojo I guess.



I found that not caring about individual solves really brought my average down, at least in competition.

I don't think about specific solves, but rather I just relax and think of it as solving at home.


----------



## MarcelP (Oct 4, 2013)

Ninja Storm said:


> I found that not caring about individual solves really brought my average down, at least in competition.
> 
> I don't think about specific solves, but rather I just relax and think of it as solving at home.



Yeah, I have heard about the not care thing. I just do not know how to apply it  I have good hopes for this upcomming events though.


----------



## ThomasJE (Oct 4, 2013)

MarcelP said:


> Yeah, I have heard about the not care thing. I just do not know how to apply it  I have good hopes for this upcomming events though.



I almost always get good when averages when I just solve; not worrying about the times or the averages.


----------



## MarcelP (Oct 4, 2013)

ThomasJE said:


> I almost always get good when averages when I just solve; not worrying about the times or the averages.



Yeah, I know.. But think of this. You average about 18 seconds now? Now please make an Ao12 on video right now. You will see, with me waiting and holding my breath until you upload it, that it will be a lot more stressfull  I challenge you.


----------



## ThomasJE (Oct 4, 2013)

MarcelP said:


> Yeah, I know.. But think of this. You average about 18 seconds now? Now please make an Ao12 on video right now. You will see, with me waiting and holding my breath until you upload it, that it will be a lot more stressfull  I challenge you.



I was going to record my Race to Sub-20 average tonight. I'll have to now... 

And I average around 19/20 ish.


----------



## MarcelP (Oct 4, 2013)

ThomasJE said:


> I was going to record my Race to Sub-20 average tonight. I'll have to now...
> 
> And I average around 19/20 ish.


Ok, cool! I want to see that.


----------



## sneaklyfox (Oct 4, 2013)

MarcelP said:


> Last Ao5 that I did was over 3 minutes.. Talk abot sucking... Bleh!
> 
> 
> But.. I am feeling more consistent on the 3 X 3:
> ...



Sorry... I really thought I was worse at 4x4. But I will be as I'm still not into 4x4 and not buying a SS so with more practice you'll be faster. I really want them to make cubes that don't require the mod. Nice Ao12!


----------



## mark49152 (Oct 4, 2013)

First timed 3x3 session for 2 months and I get a PB ao50. So 4x4 and 2x2 practice does help 3x3!


----------



## ThomasJE (Oct 4, 2013)

MarcelP said:


> Ok, cool! I want to see that.



Well you have to wait a little longer unfortunately. The cube is off-camera for most of the video. It was a 19.01 average as well 

But good things come to those who wait, right?


----------



## MarcelP (Oct 4, 2013)

mark49152 said:


> First timed 3x3 session for 2 months and I get a PB ao50. So 4x4 and 2x2 practice does help 3x3!


What was the time on Ao50? Congrats!


----------



## mark49152 (Oct 4, 2013)

MarcelP said:


> What was the time on Ao50? Congrats!


32.03, down 0.4. Also set an ao12 PB of 30.36. On Weilong


----------



## MarcelP (Oct 5, 2013)

mark49152 said:


> 32.03, down 0.4. Also set an ao12 PB of 30.36. On Weilong



Nice!! So close to sub 30 PB  Are you sticking with the Weilong now? I try to get back to Weilong but after using CX3 I don't really appreciate the Weilong as much as I used to do. The Weilong turns much faster than the CX3 and is smoother.. But the CX3 is bigger and I have better recognition on that. Also moves like small f go better because the pieces are bigger. So I guess Cx3 improves my times because of size.


----------



## mark49152 (Oct 5, 2013)

No I keep switching cubes all the time - Weilong, Fangshi, ZhanChi, Lingyun. Every time I switch I think "hey this cube is better because of xxx" then switch again next day


----------



## rj (Oct 5, 2013)

mark49152 said:


> No I keep switching cubes all the time - Weilong, Fangshi, ZhanChi, Lingyun. Every time I switch I think "hey this cube is better because of xxx" then switch again next day




You're like Feliks. He's cube-neutral.


----------



## mark49152 (Oct 5, 2013)

rj said:


> You're like Feliks. He's cube-neutral.


And that's where the similarity ends...


----------



## kcl (Oct 6, 2013)

mark49152 said:


> And that's where the similarity ends...



This made me laugh. Thank you.


----------



## Schmidt (Oct 15, 2013)

I didn't suck too much in the weekly


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## sneaklyfox (Oct 15, 2013)

Hey, pretty nice, Schmidt!


----------



## MarcelP (Oct 16, 2013)

Schmidt said:


> I didn't suck too much in the weekly



Very nice! I don't think I can top that any time soon


----------



## Schmidt (Oct 16, 2013)

sneaklyfox said:


> Hey, pretty nice, Schmidt!


so is your sig! Time for interpretation:


> I am the fastest!... at making babies. BLD noob 7:46.91


1. You have not tried it that many times but still managed to get pregnant in 7:46.91 wearing a blindfold?
2. You are already pregnant again, despite the twins are but a few months old?


----------



## MarcelP (Oct 16, 2013)

Schmidt said:


> so is your sig! Time for interpretation:
> 
> 1. You have not tried it that many times but still managed to get pregnant in 7:46.91 wearing a blindfold?
> 2. You are already pregnant again, despite the twins are but a few months old?



LOL... That really made me LOL.


----------



## sneaklyfox (Oct 16, 2013)

Schmidt said:


> so is your sig! Time for interpretation:
> 
> 1. You have not tried it that many times but still managed to get pregnant in 7:46.91 wearing a blindfold?
> 2. You are already pregnant again, despite the twins are but a few months old?



lol
1. I probably could have gotten pregnant in 7:46.91 wearing a blindfold , but... true story is somehow the forum wouldn't let me add the BLD stuff to the second line instead.
2. If that were true I would die. And they are now 7 weeks old. Cuties.


----------



## MarcelP (Oct 16, 2013)

sneaklyfox said:


> lol
> And they are now 7 weeks old. Cuties.



Lovely!! They are so sweet (when they do sleep LOL).


----------



## MarcelP (Oct 18, 2013)

Schmidt said:


> I didn't suck too much in the weekly



I understand now why you did not suck so much.. These where the most awesome scrambles 


Spoiler



Rubik's cube
18-okt-2013 18:13:08 - 18:16:16

Mean: 21.00
Average: 21.24
Best time: 18.62
Median: 21.05
Worst time: 22.66
Standard deviation: 1.41

Best average of 5: 21.24
1-5 - (18.62) 20.51 22.15 21.05 (22.66)

1. 18.62 L2 B' R2 B2 R2 F' L2 B R2 U2 L2 D' L' D' B2 D L' D' R' D L'
2. 20.51 U' L2 B U' R' L2 B2 U' B' U2 R' L2 D2 L' B2 L' F2 R' U2
3. 22.15 D R F' L' D' L U2 D L2 U2 F' D2 L2 F2 L2 F D2 R2 B
4. 21.05 U2 B U B2 D2 R2 F2 R' F U2 D2 R' F2 B2 L' D2 R B2
5. 22.66 U2 F2 R D2 R F2 R2 B2 L' R U' B' U R' F2 U B D B


[video=youtube_share;sUDU93lWZzQ]http://youtu.be/sUDU93lWZzQ[/video]


----------



## kcl (Oct 18, 2013)

*Hi, Marcel from Holland here*



MarcelP said:


> I understand now why you did not suck so much.. These where the most awesome scrambles
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> ...



Wow, maybe I should actually try them! Nice job


----------



## Schmidt (Oct 18, 2013)

All we need now is (better) look ahead and AUF prediction.
​Oh and I beat you in everything else too!


----------



## kcl (Oct 18, 2013)

*Hi, Marcel from Holland here*



Schmidt said:


> All we need now is (better) look ahead and AUF prediction.
> ​Oh and I beat you in everything else too!



Just my input, I think you should both turn a little faster. That along with AUF prediction would serve you well as a quick fix.


----------



## MarcelP (Oct 18, 2013)

I almost turn as fast as I can.. LOL really.. Don't forget that I am very very old..  I think I have lot's of look ahead and better F2L pairing to gain. Sub 20 is a goal I can achieve I think.


----------



## kcl (Oct 18, 2013)

MarcelP said:


> I almost turn as fast as I can.. LOL really.. Don't forget that I am very very old..  I think I have lot's of look ahead and better F2L pairing to gain. Sub 20 is a goal I can achieve I think.



Sub 20 most definitely. If you go at this speed with zero pauses I'm pretty sure you could reach sub 18 maybe even sub 17 averages.


----------



## Schmidt (Oct 19, 2013)

I saw a video about the Hoya 4x4x4 method yesterday and thought I would give it a try:

1:44.30, 2:19.83, 1:53.69, 2:17.56, 1:40.06, 2:10.96, 1:59.86, 1:45.78, 2:08.19, 2:22.75, 2:30.61, 1:57.96


number of times: 12/12
best time: 1:40.06
worst time: 2:30.61


current avg5: 2:09.63 (σ = 12.46)
best avg5: 1:57.94 (σ = 11.33)


current avg12: 2:04.09 (σ = 13.87)
best avg12: 2:04.09 (σ = 13.87)


session avg: 2:04.09 (σ = 13.87)
session mean: 2:04.30

you should try it!


----------



## sneaklyfox (Oct 19, 2013)

Schmidt said:


> I saw a video about the Hoya 4x4x4 method yesterday and thought I would give it a try:
> 
> 1:44.30, 2:19.83, 1:53.69, 2:17.56, 1:40.06, 2:10.96, 1:59.86, 1:45.78, 2:08.19, 2:22.75, 2:30.61, 1:57.96
> 
> ...



Cool! Link to video, pls.


----------



## Schmidt (Oct 19, 2013)

Aaron Loprete on YouTube


----------



## sneaklyfox (Oct 19, 2013)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eLonI6SzeoA

Link to Hoya method if anyone wants. I'm going to watch it.


----------



## mark49152 (Oct 19, 2013)

Looks great. Pairing the cross edges with Yau is one of the slower steps for me, because of all the hunting around for edges. I like that this builds the edges in place.


----------



## sneaklyfox (Oct 20, 2013)

I tried Hoya once on my sucky 4x4. I like it already. I was using normal reduction before (not Yau). Now I just need to wait for more reviews of the WeiSu to come out. I hope it's good. I really really want to get into 4x4 but can't be bothered to mod a SS and I want a good one!


----------



## MarcelP (Oct 20, 2013)

I just watched the first half of the video and did not understand one bit of it. Now let's hope the second solve is making more sence..


----------



## Yellowsnow98 (Oct 20, 2013)

I've tried Hoya before and I think it could be good for some people.
But it's just not for me.



Spoiler



Though I average 2:26 on 4x4 so I suck either way.


----------



## sneaklyfox (Oct 20, 2013)

MarcelP said:


> I just watched the first half of the video and did not understand one bit of it. Now let's hope the second solve is making more sence..



Yeah I'm no good at 4x4 so it was too fast for me too. Basically I think you build two opposite centers that are NOT your cross colour. So if you do white cross, you can do either blue/green (as in the video) or red/orange. Then you build the white center and one other adjacent center (not yellow). There are always two centers left, yellow being one of them. Then you do inserts for the cross edges the way he shows in the video and then fix the last two centers after cross edges are done.


----------



## MarcelP (Oct 20, 2013)

First solve was over 5 minutes.. I think I will stick with Yau now that I finally start to get the hang of that. LOL


----------



## Clarkeeyyy (Oct 20, 2013)

*Hi, Marcel from Holland here*

I use hoya and average around 1:05. If you need any help with the method feel free to Pm me.


----------



## sneaklyfox (Oct 20, 2013)

Clarkeeyyy said:


> I use hoya and average around 1:05. If you need any help with the method feel free to Pm me.



You're fast on 4x4 relative to your 3x3 times.


----------



## Clarkeeyyy (Oct 20, 2013)

*Hi, Marcel from Holland here*



sneaklyfox said:


> You're fast on 4x4 relative to your 3x3 times.



I know, because my 4x4 isn't that great and causes me to turn slower and find better solutions. I average like a 40 second hoya-reduction. If my 3x3 wasn't so bad I could probably sub 1 consistently.


----------



## MarcelP (Oct 21, 2013)

Clarkeeyyy said:


> I use hoya and average around 1:05. If you need any help with the method feel free to Pm me.



I think I would give it a serious try (because I like that Schmidt is enthousiastic about it) if I could find a tuturial that I would understand. If you could make a Youtube video and walkthrough solves that would be awesome.


----------



## Schmidt (Oct 21, 2013)

MarcelP said:


> because I like that Schmidt is enthousiastic about it



Pfft! It was only because you had beat me in 3x3 a couple of times, so I had to rub your nose in the fact that I can beat you on 4x4 even with a method I had used 3 times before I made that ao12


> First solve was over 5 minutes..


My first entry in the weekly for 5x5 was 5:01.xx using Hoya


----------



## MarcelP (Oct 21, 2013)

LOL, I can be beaten with any method on any event...  I am just that slow. Ha ha..


----------



## sneaklyfox (Oct 21, 2013)

MarcelP said:


> LOL, I can be beaten with any method on any event...  I am just that slow. Ha ha..



Marcel is awesomest!


----------



## MarcelP (Oct 22, 2013)

sneaklyfox said:


> Marcel is awesomest!



LOL.. hardly..


Hey Søren,


This weeks entry. Not so good as last week but there where a few easy scrambles. I had a sub 17 with a PLL skip. Jay!


Spoiler



Rubik's cube
22-okt-2013 15:22:24 - 15:25:35

Mean: 21.99
Average: 22.13
Best time: 16.68
Median: 22.63
Worst time: 26.89
Standard deviation: 3.40

Best average of 5: 22.13
1-5 - 20.27 22.63 (16.68) (26.89) 23.48

1. 20.27 L2 F2 R F2 D2 L F2 L B2 D2 L' B' L2 U' L' D U2 L D2 B' L'
2. 22.63 D2 U' R2 D L2 U' B2 F2 R2 U B' R2 F' L' B2 D F2 L' D' U R
3. 16.68 D' L2 U2 R2 F2 L2 U' L2 U2 B2 R' U' B' F R' D2 B L D R
4. 26.89 R' F2 B U2 D' L B U2 B U' B2 R2 U2 F2 D' B2 U' F2 U'
5. 23.48 D' F2 D2 L2 B2 U F2 D L2 F2 U2 L' D2 B D L2 D2 F R' U R2



[video=youtube_share;E5dNlcje1Ts]http://youtu.be/E5dNlcje1Ts[/video]


----------



## sneaklyfox (Oct 22, 2013)

I mean I like you and you have a good attitude. Somehow it reminds me of my mom.


----------



## MarcelP (Oct 22, 2013)

sneaklyfox said:


> I mean I like you and you have a good attitude. Somehow it reminds me of my mom.



Thanks!


----------



## Schmidt (Oct 22, 2013)

My entry was bad. I thought I recorded it but I pushed the button at the wrong time, so I recorded after the solves
I got a PLL skip too and a sub18 full step and a 27​



Spoiler: And then I got this



Average of 5: 20.05
1. (17.55) B D2 L2 D2 L2 B U2 B' R2 U2 B D R' B' R2 F2 D R' B F2 U2 
2. (21.96) R D R F' U2 L U D2 F D' B U2 F2 U B2 L2 D L2 B2 L2 B2 
3. 20.61 U2 R' L2 B U' D2 B D R F' R2 F2 R2 U2 B2 R2 U F2 U L2 D 
4. 19.13 L2 B2 U R2 F2 R2 U2 F2 R2 U2 L F D2 U' L U2 B2 R D2 B' F' 
5. 20.41 L2 B2 F2 L' D2 U2 F2 U2 L F2 R D' U R' B' R B' L F2 L F'


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## MarcelP (Oct 24, 2013)

Schmidt said:


> Spoiler: And then I got this
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Nice!! My Ao5 PB is close to that. What is your Ao5 PB?


----------



## YddEd (Oct 24, 2013)

MarcelP said:


> Jay!


...den Mcneill?


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## Schmidt (Oct 24, 2013)

I have 3 sub20 ao5 (19.xx for all 3)


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## ThomasJE (Oct 27, 2013)

Spoiler: Surprise!



[video=youtube_share;XelcmUGZcfk]http://youtu.be/XelcmUGZcfk[/video]
Should be finished in a couple of minutes.


----------



## MarcelP (Oct 27, 2013)

That is pretty awesome Thomas. And the fact that you can do that with bad lightening is even more cool


----------



## ThomasJE (Oct 27, 2013)

MarcelP said:


> That is pretty awesome Thomas. And the fact that you can do that with bad lightening is even more cool



The bag lighting was just the camera. It's much better in the daytime.


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## sneaklyfox (Nov 1, 2013)

Marcel, did you order a Weisu?

I just checked my 4x4 history in 4+ race... a year ago when I had a Shengshou I could average 2:02 and that was without much practice at all. I gave the Shengshou away shortly after so I haven't had any decent cube for almost a year but only this really bad cube that I basically didn't bother touching. I have practiced some on it in the last week or so (more than I did last year) in preparation for getting seriously into 4x4 with a good cube and I can only average 2:18! So I can only guess how much better I would be when I receive my Weisu. Perhaps I will be instantly sub-2. Ooh, the thought gives me the shivers.


----------



## MarcelP (Nov 1, 2013)

sneaklyfox said:


> Marcel, did you order a Weisu?
> 
> I just checked my 4x4 history in 4+ race... a year ago when I had a Shengshou I could average 2:02 and that was without much practice at all. I gave the Shengshou away shortly after so I haven't had any decent cube for almost a year but only this really bad cube that I basically didn't bother touching. I have practiced some on it in the last week or so (more than I did last year) in preparation for getting seriously into 4x4 with a good cube and I can only average 2:18! So I can only guess how much better I would be when I receive my Weisu. Perhaps I will be instantly sub-2. Ooh, the thought gives me the shivers.



Yes, I ordered a Weisu. It is still on the way though... This weekend I hope to try one or two on a competition. I suspect you will be sub 2 instantly  For me that is a bit too fast I think. I average 2:30 - 2:40 right now. I start to enjoy 4 x 4 more and more. I only wish there where slower people than me. Lol..


----------



## ThomasJE (Nov 1, 2013)

MarcelP said:


> Yes, I ordered a Weisu. It is still on the way though... This weekend I hope to try one or two on a competition. I suspect you will be sub 2 instantly  For me that is a bit too fast I think. I average 2:30 - 2:40 right now. I start to enjoy 4 x 4 more and more. *I only wish there where slower people than me.* Lol..



There's a way to fix that...


----------



## MarcelP (Nov 1, 2013)

How? I do more than 25 solves per day..  I am just that bad at 4 x 4 lol


----------



## Yellowsnow98 (Nov 1, 2013)

MarcelP said:


> Yes, I ordered a Weisu. It is still on the way though... This weekend I hope to try one or two on a competition. I suspect you will be sub 2 instantly  For me that is a bit too fast I think. I average 2:30 - 2:40 right now. I start to enjoy 4 x 4 more and more. I only wish there where slower people than me. Lol..



TheCubicle had white Weisus on backorder when I was ordering so I'll have to wait. It's good to see you're getting into 4x4 at around the same time as me. I like having someone to compare with in the weekly .(Although I've done no 4x4 in the weekly for a good while now)


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## cubizh (Nov 1, 2013)

MarcelP said:


> I average 2:30 - 2:40 right now.





ThomasJE said:


> There's a way to fix that...





MarcelP said:


> How? I do more than 25 solves per day..  I am just that bad at 4 x 4 lol


Consider making a video of a 4x4 average of 5/12, so you could get tips on what you're doing wrong.


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## mark49152 (Nov 1, 2013)

Marcel, what happened to your prepared solve game? Are you still doing that? I'd quite like to pick that up again. It was fun.


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## MarcelP (Nov 1, 2013)

cubizh said:


> Consider making a video of a 4x4 average of 5/12, so you could get tips on what you're doing wrong.


5 solves would be tooooo long  I recently uploaded this one:

[video=youtube_share;x4_l24ldFIk]http://youtu.be/x4_l24ldFIk[/video]


mark49152 said:


> Marcel, what happened to your prepared solve game? Are you still doing that? I'd quite like to pick that up again. It was fun.



No, I did not continue after only one or two entries came. You could take over the contest if you want to. I will participate


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## sneaklyfox (Nov 1, 2013)

That's the kind of time I'm getting (a pretty good time that is)... you had double parity too. Very nice.

Edit: I should post a solve slower than yours and make you happy.


----------



## Yellowsnow98 (Nov 2, 2013)

MarcelP said:


> 5 solves would be tooooo long  I recently uploaded this one:
> 
> [video=youtube_share;x4_l24ldFIk]http://youtu.be/x4_l24ldFIk[/video]



The problem is is that you're doing exactly what I do...
Seriously. My splits for the same time are stupidly close.

Though you have slightly faster centers.


----------



## mark49152 (Nov 2, 2013)

MarcelP said:


> No, I did not continue after only one or two entries came. You could take over the contest if you want to. I will participate


I am too busy to do it weekly and would keep letting people down, but I'd enjoy doing it ad-hoc as and when I have time. I'll post a scramble later. I think it's good for tps training.


----------



## MarcelP (Nov 4, 2013)

I had a competition yesterday in Belgium. Yeah I did go international  I was sick in bed on saturday but felt little ok on Sunday morning. I had to drive for two hours to Arnoud van Galen and hitched a ride with himto Belgium. So the 4 hour drive totally broke down my energy. At the competition I was feeling like I was in hell. Big fever sweats. At some points I almost could not judge (affraid I would fall down). Still I managed to do a PB average on Rubiks cube, PB single OH and two great 4 X 4 solves (not enough to get an average though). I even was allowed to go to the second round of Rubiks cube, but I was so sick that it was I was using beginners method .. The fact that I now have a PB average 25.71 which on a normal day is my Ao100 totally made it worth it. It looks like I am getting the hang of competition stuff and have my nerves under control.


----------



## sneaklyfox (Nov 4, 2013)

Nice going, Marcel! New official PBs! Sorry to hear you weren't feeling well though. Wow, I don't think I could travel that much for a cubing competition. At least, I can't see myself doing this anytime soon. Perhaps when I am an empty nester, ha! I even think 40 minutes of driving is "too far". Good for you!


----------



## MarcelP (Nov 4, 2013)

sneaklyfox said:


> Wow, I don't think I could travel that much for a cubing competition. ..I even think 40 minutes of driving is "too far".



Yeah, it was a bit too crazy for me. I mean being not 100% well and then doing that. I probably should have stayed at home. But then again I would not have had that nice PB average.. LOL The things we do for cubing..


----------



## sneaklyfox (Nov 4, 2013)

lol... I totally understand though. I think if I did not have such a young and big family... if I were still in university days and single I would totally drive around the country and go to comps if my job permitted ie. weekends are cool.


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## kcl (Nov 4, 2013)

sneaklyfox said:


> lol... I totally understand though. I think if I did not have such a young and big family... if I were still in university days and single I would totally drive around the country and go to comps if my job permitted ie. weekends are cool.



That's like me lol if I only had a license, I would go to every comp I could in the Midwest. So like a 12 hour radius pretty much


----------



## MarcelP (Nov 8, 2013)

Today I did an Ao100 with a Zhanchi. Now that I have so many great cubes I really do not know what to choose. It was a great average with many sub 20's Unfortunatly also a lot sup 30's ouch.. I think I will stick with Zhanchi for a while.



Spoiler



Mean: 24.99
Average: 24.94
Best time: 15.36
Median: 24.80
Worst time: 38.62
Standard deviation: 3.47

Best average of 5: 20.74
80-84 - 22.05 17.65 (27.12) 22.53 (15.36)

Best average of 12: 22.47
78-89 - 18.99 27.48 22.05 17.65 27.12 22.53 (15.36) 22.51 19.00 24.81 (30.53) 22.53


----------



## mark49152 (Nov 8, 2013)

Nice average - what went wrong on the 38.62?


----------



## MarcelP (Nov 8, 2013)

mark49152 said:


> Nice average - what went wrong on the 38.62?



Nothing.. sometimes my solves are that slow. Maybe I unslotted a paired F2L a few times


----------



## mark49152 (Nov 8, 2013)

MarcelP said:


> Nothing.. sometimes my solves are that slow. Maybe I unslotted a paired F2L a few times


Yeah I hate that, when I think a solve is going well, then I don't recognise the OLL... Because... What's wrong here... Damn, there's an F2L edge in wrong! :fp


----------



## MarcelP (Nov 8, 2013)

I had almost solved nothing this week. Still feeling shitty from a flu, but also no motivation at all. That has not happened to me before. Good thing tomorrow I hope to receive the version 2 of the Gan III and the ChiLong. I think both landed yesterday. New cubes really lift your spririts


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## sneaklyfox (Nov 8, 2013)

Aww, sorry to hear you're still not feeling well from flu. I wish I were getting new cubes tomorrow. Let us know what you think of the Gan III v2 and ChiLong!


----------



## rj (Nov 8, 2013)

kclejeune said:


> That's like me lol if I only had a license, I would go to every comp I could in the Midwest. So like a 12 hour radius pretty much



lol me too. Except I'm on the east coast


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## kcl (Nov 8, 2013)

rj said:


> lol me too. Except I'm on the east coast



Which means you get comps.. Like 3 every month.. Within 5 hours


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## rj (Nov 8, 2013)

kclejeune said:


> Which means you get comps.. Like 3 every month.. Within 5 hours



Right. And my cube club is going to hold one.


----------



## MarcelP (Nov 8, 2013)

sneaklyfox said:


> Aww, sorry to hear you're still not feeling well from flu. I wish I were getting new cubes tomorrow. Let us know what you think of the Gan III v2 and ChiLong!



You will receive your new Weisu and ChiLong and SuLong (if I remember correctly) also soon.  Surely I will make some video's. I have high hopes for the Gan III V2. I have been in contact with the designer and he sent me the cube. He also told me that next year the Gan IV will be 57 mm  Jay!


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## sneaklyfox (Nov 8, 2013)

Well, Wallbuys is supposed to get their Weisu restocked in a couple days at which time they will send out the order I guess. And yes, I have the Sulong and Chilong coming in along with the Weisu. But I don't expect them for another couple weeks at least because sometimes shipping takes a long time. I really can't wait for the Weisu though. If you saw my channel, I just uploaded a video of my current really bad 4x4. I've tried to practice some on it and I think I'm about the 2-min mark. So far best Ao12 is 1:57.95 which is not bad on this cube. I've done about 150 solves. It locks so much and moves so slow and weird... it takes me 8 seconds to do OLL parity. And 3x3 stage would take me about 30-40 seconds ugh!

Oh, btw, I tried Reduction, Hoya, and Yau methods. I am pretty much decided that I like Yau the best. At first I really hated Yau because of the last 4 centers step but since I adopted doing half centers, I do that most of the time if not all and now that step isn't so bad. I think you're doing Yau too, right Marcel?


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## rj (Nov 8, 2013)

sneaklyfox said:


> Well, Wallbuys is supposed to get their Weisu restocked in a couple days at which time they will send out the order I guess. And yes, I have the Sulong and Chilong coming in along with the Weisu. But I don't expect them for another couple weeks at least because sometimes shipping takes a long time. I really can't wait for the Weisu though. If you saw my channel, I just uploaded a video of my current really bad 4x4. I've tried to practice some on it and I think I'm about the 2-min mark. So far best Ao12 is 1:57.95 which is not bad on this cube. I've done about 150 solves. It locks so much and moves so slow and weird... it takes me 8 seconds to do OLL parity. And 3x3 stage would take me about 30-40 seconds ugh!
> 
> Oh, btw, I tried Reduction, Hoya, and Yau methods. I am pretty much decided that I like Yau the best. At first I really hated Yau because of the last 4 centers step but since I adopted doing half centers, I do that most of the time if not all and now that step isn't so bad. I think you're doing Yau too, right Marcel?



Wat. We're the same speed on 4x4.


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## MarcelP (Nov 8, 2013)

sneaklyfox said:


> I think you're doing Yau too, right Marcel?


Your times are great!! Yes, I use Yau. I did nothing but 4X4 yesterday evening. I had a 2.04 and a 2.03 and a 2.02.. But most where in the 2.30 - 3.00 range..  Still hoping for that sub 2 average. Today I am learning Hoya. I am sub 3 mostly with that.. Still figuring stuff out. What I like from Hoya is the freedom to choose a color that has big parts solved on centers.

Edit: I am going to view your 4 X 4 solves


----------



## sneaklyfox (Nov 8, 2013)

MarcelP said:


> Edit: I am going to view your 4 X 4 solves



Sorry, the video does not have a solve. I just show the corner cutting of my cube. Do you want me to show a 4x4 solve on my sad cube?


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## MarcelP (Nov 8, 2013)

sneaklyfox said:


> Sorry, the video does not have a solve. I just show the corner cutting of my cube. Do you want me to show a 4x4 solve on my sad cube?



Yes please. I also watch your slow moving sub 20 video often for inspiration


----------



## sneaklyfox (Nov 9, 2013)

Ok, here it is for you, Marcel. Enjoy!
[video=youtube_share;NVppGIvLC6Q]http://youtu.be/NVppGIvLC6Q[/video]


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## kcl (Nov 9, 2013)

sneaklyfox said:


> Ok, here it is for you, Marcel. Enjoy!
> [video=youtube_share;NVppGIvLC6Q]http://youtu.be/NVppGIvLC6Q[/video]



Ouch.. WeiSu is going to drop your times by a ton. Your technique is definitely good enough for sub 1:30.


----------



## MarcelP (Nov 9, 2013)

sneaklyfox said:


> Ok, here it is for you, Marcel. Enjoy!



I agree, with a better cube you will be averaging 1.30 in no time.  I hope to film a sub 2 solve today


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## MarcelP (Nov 9, 2013)

I did an Ao20 with Hoya and got 2.42. I am pretty happy with that. I had a few singles faster than my offical single. I think I will stick with Hoya!


----------



## sneaklyfox (Nov 9, 2013)

kclejeune said:


> Ouch.. WeiSu is going to drop your times by a ton. Your technique is definitely good enough for sub 1:30.


Thanks for believing in me. It looks like it'll take awhile for my cubes to arrive from Wallbuys since the Weisu isn't even in stock right now so while I'm waiting I'll see if I can get down to 1:40 on crap cube. Shouldn't be too bad, right? I haven't even done 200 solves with Yau yet. Will see what happens in another few hundred solves maybe.



MarcelP said:


> I did an Ao20 with Hoya and got 2.42. I am pretty happy with that. I had a few singles faster than my offical single. I think I will stick with Hoya!


Cool that you're going to stick with Hoya. It is good for easy starts if non-cross centers are almost done. But have you tried CN Yau? You're CN on 3x3 anyway.


----------



## MarcelP (Nov 9, 2013)

sneaklyfox said:


> Cool that you're going to stick with Hoya. It is good for easy starts if non-cross centers are almost done. But have you tried CN Yau? You're CN on 3x3 anyway.



Well, CN on a 4 X 4 is harder because on making cross edges you will have know which color goes where. I don't think I will be fast at that 

Here is Hoya solve of today:
[video=youtube_share;67menZtPBtg]http://youtu.be/67menZtPBtg[/video]


----------



## sneaklyfox (Nov 9, 2013)

I never really learned my colour scheme like some people do. In my solves, after I put my white center on the left, I'm still repeating "BOGR BOGR" in my head...


----------



## kcl (Nov 10, 2013)

sneaklyfox said:


> I never really learned my colour scheme like some people do. In my solves, after I put my white center on the left, I'm still repeating "BOGR BOGR" in my head...



I do that too hahaha.. except I do audio with GRBO. I should use both now. But something is clicking, I've gotten some sub 1 solves today!


----------



## mark49152 (Nov 10, 2013)

sneaklyfox said:


> I never really learned my colour scheme like some people do. In my solves, after I put my white center on the left, I'm still repeating "BOGR BOGR" in my head...


I could never recall my colour scheme quickly enough by BOGR order, even after weeks of practice. What clicked for me was thinking of green as the "front" colour, orange as "right", etc. As soon as I tried that, I immediately became able to recall the colour scheme, even when green is not at the front.


----------



## sneaklyfox (Nov 10, 2013)

Nice Hoya solve, Marcel!



kclejeune said:


> I do that too hahaha.. except I do audio with GRBO. I should use both now. But something is clicking, I've gotten some sub 1 solves today!



Haha that's funny. Yes, I use audio too. BOGR sounds like "bogger". You're right... I should think of GRBO too. I'm more familiar with what's after blue but not as good with red after green. But it's coming. I think after awhile more of saying it in my head I'll know it ok. Sub-1 solves, very nice! The faster I get on 4x4 the more agonizingly slow and locky my cube is to me.


----------



## kcl (Nov 10, 2013)

sneaklyfox said:


> Nice Hoya solve, Marcel!
> 
> 
> 
> Haha that's funny. Yes, I use audio too. BOGR sounds like "bogger". You're right... I should think of GRBO too. I'm more familiar with what's after blue but not as good with red after green. But it's coming. I think after awhile more of saying it in my head I'll know it ok. Sub-1 solves, very nice! The faster I get on 4x4 the more agonizingly slow and locky my cube is to me.




Yep, I'm the opposite! I'm good with what's after green. It's easy since cross is always on left. My issue is that on 3x3 I just instinctively can tell where pairs go relative to whichever colors. It's just automatic.. You will love your WeiSu. Definitely.


----------



## sneaklyfox (Nov 10, 2013)

kclejeune said:


> Yep, I'm the opposite! I'm good with what's after green. It's easy since cross is always on left. My issue is that on 3x3 I just instinctively can tell where pairs go relative to whichever colors. It's just automatic.. You will love your WeiSu. Definitely.



Maybe I should just switch to saying something different each new day. So tomorrow maybe I should do GRBO. Maybe RBOG or OGRB another day. I know some people say to know your colour scheme inside and out for 3x3 (maybe for cross planning) but I never needed to do that. But maybe that also made it easier for me to switch to W/Y neutral. Agh... now the wait for my Weisu is also agonizing. It will be funny if my first solve on a Weisu beats my PB.

kclejeune: Whoa... I just noticed your post count is very high for how long you've been a member here. I thought I posted a lot but not compared to you.


----------



## MarcelP (Nov 10, 2013)

sneaklyfox; said:


> It will be funny if my first solve on a Weisu beats my PB.
> 
> .



Do not get your hopes up for the first solve. I found the WeiSu pretty bad out of the box. It gets good after 100 solves


----------



## mark49152 (Nov 10, 2013)

Marcel, did you tension or lube your Weisu, or just break it in as it came in the box?


----------



## MarcelP (Nov 10, 2013)

mark49152 said:


> Marcel, did you tension or lube your Weisu, or just break it in as it came in the box?



Mark, empty your inbox please..

I did not tension the Weisu. It is maybe too tight, but I get no pops.. That is very important for me 

Also.... I crushed my 3X3 Ao100 PB (with almost a second) Ao12 with a tiny bit, and Ao5 PB (with more than half a second).. Anyone care to guess which cube?



Spoiler



Mean: 23.62
Average: 23.61
Best time: 15.54
Median: 24.01
Worst time: 33.39
Standard deviation: 2.99

Best average of 5: 19.60
83-87 - (16.40) 17.90 19.23 21.68 (26.14)

Best average of 12: 21.67
47-58 - (16.96) (25.95) 19.53 23.92 23.93 24.96 19.54 24.40 19.43 18.95 20.07 21.93


----------



## ThomasJE (Nov 10, 2013)

Gans III V2?

Also, I'm starting to think I'm the only person who uses Reduction for 4x4 now...


----------



## mark49152 (Nov 10, 2013)

Hmmm... Zhanchi?

My Weisu is becoming a bit smoother and less catchy, but still feels terminally slow. It's as if the plastic has a higher coefficient of friction than most cubes, but I'm reluctant to lube it in case what it needs is more breaking in rather than lube.

As you know from PM, I'm struggling with my CX3 and think it needs modding and/or glue to be any good. Actually I assembled a Lunhui on the same day and it was really refreshing to go back to Dayan and remember the great quality. The plastic is so much better and the cube feels so much more solid and smooth than any of the newer cubes, despite their unpoppability and great turning. The CX3 feels like a cheap piece of junk by comparison!


----------



## Schmidt (Nov 10, 2013)

Spoiler: Phew!



Just checked my PB:

Average: 19.38 PB
Standard Deviation: 0.40
Best Time: 18.33
Worst Time: 22.03
Individual Times:
1. (18.33) U' B' D' L R' F2 L' D2 B2 F U2 L2 D2 U' B R F2 L2 U R B' L B F U
2. 19.96 L2 R2 D' U' L2 B' R D R' F2 L2 D U2 F' R F L2 F2 U' B L2 D' F U' B2
3. 18.71 L R2 U B' F D2 B2 D' U2 R' U' L2 B' D' U2 R' F' L B2 F L2 D U' B2 D'
4. 19.47 U' L D U' L2 F' U B2 L' R2 F2 U F R B2 F2 R' B' L R2 B' F2 L2 D B2
5. (22.03) U' F' L R' D L' R' F R2 B2 F2 L R2 D' L2 U2 L R2 U R F R2 D U F


----------



## MarcelP (Nov 10, 2013)

ThomasJE said:


> Gans III V2?



Nope..



mark49152 said:


> Hmmm... Zhanchi?



nope




mark49152 said:


> As you know from PM, I'm struggling with my CX3 and think it needs modding and/or glue to be any good. Actually I assembled a Lunhui on the same day and it was really refreshing to go back to Dayan and remember the great quality. The plastic is so much better and the cube feels so much more solid and smooth than any of the newer cubes, despite their unpoppability and great turning. The CX3 feels like a cheap piece of junk by comparison!



No, the CX3 needs a few hundred solves to loose that grinding. After 500 solves or so is it so smooth.. Trust me, hang in there. It will put all Dayans to shame 



Schmidt said:


> Spoiler: Phew!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



LOL, you are still safe.. 

I used my new YJ ChiLong. That is the perfect cube for me.


----------



## sneaklyfox (Nov 10, 2013)

Nice, sub-20 Ao5, Marcel! Now for sub-20 Ao12. Aww... I was going to put in a guess which cube. So now Chilong is your main?


----------



## mark49152 (Nov 10, 2013)

MarcelP said:


> Nope..No, the CX3 needs a few hundred solves to loose that grinding. After 500 solves or so is it so smooth.. Trust me, hang in there. It will put all Dayans to shame


Much as I love getting new cubes, I also love solving and am too impatient to have my solving pleasure degraded for several days while breaking in a cube that's poor out of the box. I have too many good cubes already. I have the same dilemma with the Weisu. So I'm going to attack the CX3 with glue and sandpaper and if I kill it I'm not that bothered


----------



## MarcelP (Nov 10, 2013)

sneaklyfox said:


> Nice, sub-20 Ao5, Marcel! Now for sub-20 Ao12. Aww... I was going to put in a guess which cube. So now Chilong is your main?



A sub 20 Ao12 would be very sweet  Yeah, Chilong is definatly my main. Imagion doing the first 100 solves on a new cube and breaking all PB's except single (although I had three that where sooooo close).  This cube is the best cube there is for my style.


----------



## kcl (Nov 10, 2013)

:O can any of you beat this standard deviation? 20 solves, all 13's. It's pretty average for me right now but the standard deviation was .20...


----------



## MarcelP (Nov 10, 2013)

kclejeune said:


> :O can any of you beat this standard deviation? 20 solves, all 13's. It's pretty average for me right now but the standard deviation was .20...


Wow.. that is incredible


----------



## kcl (Nov 10, 2013)

MarcelP said:


> Wow.. that is incredible



I literally couldn't believe it. I usually have crappy consistency.. Like my times will be like 9, 10, 19,13,18 etc lol


----------



## Schmidt (Nov 10, 2013)

Week 44
2x2x2 6.90, 6.88, 6.91, 8.19, 6.91	avg: 6.91 (σ = 0.01)

i know it's not 3x3x3 and not 20 solves, but it is consistent.


----------



## MarcelP (Nov 10, 2013)

Schmidt said:


> Week 44
> 2x2x2 6.90, 6.88, 6.91, 8.19, 6.91	avg: 6.91 (σ = 0.01)
> 
> i know it's not 3x3x3 and not 20 solves, but it is consistent.


I can't bring my self to pratice 2 X 2 any more. I am stuck at 12 - 13 seconds. When Fangshi releases 2 X 2 (55mm) I will start working on that


----------



## MarcelP (Nov 10, 2013)

MarcelP said:


> sneaklyfox said:
> 
> 
> > Nice, sub-20 Ao5, Marcel! Now for sub-20 Ao12. Aww... I was going to put in a guess which cube. So now Chilong is your main?
> ...



I just did a quick Ao20 with my CX3. Got a 23.01.. Oh man... I truely do not know what cube to make my main.. LOL..


----------



## mark49152 (Nov 10, 2013)

MarcelP said:


> I just did a quick Ao20 with my CX3. Got a 23.01.. Oh man... I truely do not know what cube to make my main.. LOL..


Have you tried sim?


----------



## sneaklyfox (Nov 10, 2013)

Just use all cubes when you feel like it will make you happy.  I play with Fangshi and Weilong but sometimes I still love the feel of my Guhong v1 more than either of those.


----------



## kcl (Nov 10, 2013)

sneaklyfox said:


> Just use all cubes when you feel like it will make you happy.  I play with Fangshi and Weilong but sometimes I still love the feel of my Guhong v1 more than either of those.



no if u no fink weilong is best ur wrong


----------



## sneaklyfox (Nov 10, 2013)

i'm no rj


----------



## Schmidt (Nov 10, 2013)

MarcelP said:


> I can't bring my self to pratice 2 X 2 any more. I am stuck at 12 - 13 seconds. When Fangshi releases 2 X 2 (55mm) I will start working on that


I don't practice anything, I just compete in the various competitions around here. 
Isn't most 2x2x2's 50mm?


----------



## kcl (Nov 10, 2013)

Schmidt said:


> I don't practice anything, I just compete in the various competitions around here.
> Isn't most 2x2x2's 50mm?



Correct.


----------



## rj (Nov 10, 2013)

kclejeune said:


> no if u no fink weilong is best ur wrong



This.



sneaklyfox said:


> i'm no rj



I am. 

Cubing Commandment 11: Thou shalt love the Weilong as thyself


----------



## TDM (Nov 10, 2013)

rj said:


> Cubing Commandment 11: Thou shalt love the Weilong as thyself


But I hate myself.
And I don't even have a WeiLong.
Also, what are the first 10 cubing commandments?


----------



## rj (Nov 10, 2013)

TDM said:


> But I hate myself.
> And I don't even have a WeiLong.
> Also, what are the first 10 cubing commandments?



Haven't you ever been on "You know you've been cubing too long if..." ever?


----------



## TDM (Nov 10, 2013)

rj said:


> Haven't you ever been on "You know you've been cubing too long if..." ever?


Too much "ever"  I've seen that once before, and those aren't commandments. And there aren't ten of them.


----------



## MarcelP (Nov 11, 2013)

mark49152 said:


> Have you tried sim?


No, what's that?


sneaklyfox said:


> Just use all cubes when you feel like it will make you happy.  I play with Fangshi and Weilong but sometimes I still love the feel of my Guhong v1 more than either of those.


Yeah, I have been using several cubes in most A0100's. But now that I am slightly improving I think for the sake of speed it might be better to stick with a main. I think I stick with CX3 since it gave me good results last two competitions  Never change a winning combo.



Schmidt said:


> I don't practice anything, I just compete in the various competitions around here.
> Isn't most 2x2x2's 50mm?


Yeah, that's why I really want to try the 55 mm Fangshi is producing.


rj said:


> I am.
> 
> Cubing Commandment 11: Thou shalt love the Weilong as thyself



LOL.. I am a big Weilong fan, but it is too fast for me... ChiLong is like Weilong but slower.. better for look ahead..


----------



## sneaklyfox (Nov 12, 2013)

WOOHOO! New PB single 9.76!!!! I'm really happy! Good scramble (yellow cross). Got a PLL skip.
L2 F L D2 R2 D2 B L' U2 B L' D' B L D F U2 B' U2 R' U2 L2 D' F2 L2


----------



## kcl (Nov 12, 2013)

sneaklyfox said:


> WOOHOO! New PB single 9.76!!!! I'm really happy! Good scramble (yellow cross). Got a PLL skip.
> L2 F L D2 R2 D2 B L' U2 B L' D' B L D F U2 B' U2 R' U2 L2 D' F2 L2



Nice job!


----------



## MarcelP (Nov 12, 2013)

sneaklyfox said:


> WOOHOO! New PB single 9.76!!!! I'm really happy! Good scramble (yellow cross). Got a PLL skip.
> L2 F L D2 R2 D2 B L' U2 B L' D' B L D F U2 B' U2 R' U2 L2 D' F2 L2



Whooohoo! Sub 10!! Nice. I got a 19.53 with a T-perm.. I preserved the blue red pair.. I always get nervous when I can preserve a pair.


----------



## sneaklyfox (Nov 12, 2013)

Yeah, I preserved that pair too (though it didn't require anything special during cross).


----------



## kcl (Nov 12, 2013)

Whoa.. Didn't try the scramble till now. I got an 8.79.. Why can't these scrambles happen in competition :'(


----------



## mark49152 (Nov 12, 2013)

sneaklyfox said:


> WOOHOO! New PB single 9.76!!!! I'm really happy! Good scramble (yellow cross). Got a PLL skip.
> L2 F L D2 R2 D2 B L' U2 B L' D' B L D F U2 B' U2 R' U2 L2 D' F2 L2


Nice - which cube?


----------



## sneaklyfox (Nov 12, 2013)

mark49152 said:


> Nice - which cube?



Fangshi Shuangren v1. I alternate playing with this and the Weilong all the time. I think all my 3x3 PBs currently are set with the FS except for maybe Ao5 which I got with my 50mm Zhanchi lol.


----------



## mark49152 (Nov 12, 2013)

sneaklyfox said:


> Fangshi Shuangren v1. I alternate playing with this and the Weilong all the time. I think all my 3x3 PBs currently are set with the FS except for maybe Ao5 which I got with my 50mm Zhanchi lol.


Great, nice to see another Fangshi user - it's such a great cube and sadly gets less attention than it deserves because of all the Moyu cubes that came along shortly after.


----------



## TDM (Nov 12, 2013)

sneaklyfox said:


> L2 F L D2 R2 D2 B L' U2 B L' D' B L D F U2 B' U2 R' U2 L2 D' F2 L2


y2
D M' U'
r' U L
U' R' U' R
U R U' R' d' L' U' L
R' U R U' R' U R
R U B' U' R' U R B R'
U


mark49152 said:


> Great, nice to see another Fangshi user - it's such a great cube and sadly gets less attention than it deserves because of all the Moyu cubes that came along shortly after.


I also love the FangShi. I use a 54.6mm, primary with black caps. It looks cool as well as being a great cube.


----------



## ianliu64 (Nov 12, 2013)

sneaklyfox said:


> Fangshi Shuangren v1. I alternate playing with this and the Weilong all the time. I think all my 3x3 PBs currently are set with the FS except for maybe Ao5 which I got with my 50mm Zhanchi lol.



How come not the FS v2?


----------



## sneaklyfox (Nov 12, 2013)

ianliu64 said:


> How come not the FS v2?



Don't have a v2. I'll use it if you give me one.


----------



## mark49152 (Nov 12, 2013)

sneaklyfox said:


> Don't have a v2. I'll use it if you give me one.


V2 is good but not worth the upgrade IMHO if you have a well broken-in v1 that you like.


----------



## sneaklyfox (Nov 12, 2013)

Which is why I'm not planning to buy a v2.


----------



## mark49152 (Nov 12, 2013)

mark49152 said:


> So I'm going to attack the CX3 with glue and sandpaper and if I kill it I'm not that bothered


Glue and sandpaper got rid of the catching (which CBC also noticed in his review) but didn't improve it enough for me. Marcel, how tight do you have yours?

Also, is the Gans III v2 significantly better than the v1? I was playing with the v1 today and apart from the noise I quite like it.


----------



## sneaklyfox (Nov 13, 2013)

I uploaded another 4x4 solve on my channel if you want to watch another one. It's about 10 seconds faster than the last one. Linky.


----------



## MarcelP (Nov 13, 2013)

mark49152 said:


> Glue and sandpaper got rid of the catching (which CBC also noticed in his review) but didn't improve it enough for me. Marcel, how tight do you have yours?
> 
> Also, is the Gans III v2 significantly better than the v1? I was playing with the v1 today and apart from the noise I quite like it.



My CX3 is pretty tight. But loose enough to be very fast. Last competition I lend it to Manu vreeken so he could use it in BLD. He almost did a Belgium record if it was n't for the mistake he make and got a DNF. Although I try to switch to other mains, I just keep comming back to the CX3. This cube is like Convinsa says, 'Pure evil' LOL 

As far as the V2 Gan. Yeah, it is an upgrade. The V1 is allready very good. But the V2 is out of the box like a V1 that has been solved 5000 times. It is very stable (like a Guhong), but solves like a HuanYing but much better. Just get one when they are available.  I have used mine all solves today..



sneaklyfox said:


> I uploaded another 4x4 solve on my channel if you want to watch another one. It's about 10 seconds faster than the last one. Linky.



I have fiddled with my WeiSu tentions a bit. Because I am still really not a happy WeiSu cuber. I turned all screws half a turn looser. I added some Maru lube and took two turns. The cube litterally exploded on me. FRR##$$%@@@!! Arrrrgggggg! I freaking hate popping big cubes. So I took an hour out of my live putting the damn thing back together.. with tight tensions.. LOL Today I did an Ao30 Hoya. And I got a 2.27.XX That is pretty much my Yao speed. And on top of that I had severl 2.01 solves (which was my PB). But then I had this one:

Cube gods really don´t want me to get a sub 2 solve.
[video=youtube_share;GRop85oUTO4]http://youtu.be/GRop85oUTO4[/video]

EDIT: Sneaklyfox, I watched your video.. yeah so much room for improvement. I see big pauzes.. I think without the pauzes even with this bad cueb you can be sub 1.


----------



## Schmidt (Nov 13, 2013)

I saw a few pauses that might have caused those xx.xx.30


----------



## mark49152 (Nov 13, 2013)

MarcelP said:


> My CX3 is pretty tight. But loose enough to be very fast. Last competition I lend it to Manu vreeken so he could use it in BLD. He almost did a Belgium record if it was n't for the mistake he make and got a DNF. Although I try to switch to other mains, I just keep comming back to the CX3. This cube is like Convinsa says, 'Pure evil' LOL


Yeah I spent my afternoon of boring conference calls smashing away at the CX3 to break it in. 100000 angry sexy moves later, tightened almost to maximum and with blob of Traxxas in it, it's much better. The feel reminds me of the Weilong, but crunchier and with more stable corners. I can see why you like it. I'm not sure it will be my main though, because of the size and the fact that it's so noisy I can only use it when everyone is out. Plus I'm in love with my Fangshi and could never forsake it for another.


----------



## Schmidt (Nov 13, 2013)

From Race to sub20


Spoiler: Boom baby



Average of 5: 19.31
1. (20.69) B2 F2 U' B2 F2 U' F2 D2 R2 D F2 R' U F D' U2 F' R2 D2 F' R' 
2. (18.47) R D2 U2 B2 D2 L D2 L' U2 R' B U2 F' D R U2 F' U' L B' D' 
3. 19.59 L2 F2 D2 L' D2 B2 R D2 L' B2 R' D L U' B' R F' D2 F' D B2 
4. 18.65 U2 F2 D' R2 U2 R2 U' L2 F2 D U' L R' F R' B2 L B' D L' 
5. 19.69 F2 U' F2 U L2 R2 U R2 D L2 U B L2 D2 F2 U' L D B U' L2


----------



## MarcelP (Nov 13, 2013)

Schmidt said:


> I saw a few pauses that might have caused those xx.xx.30


Yeah, and freaking parity. I will get it one day 


mark49152 said:


> Yeah I spent my afternoon of boring conference calls smashing away at the CX3 to break it in. 100000 angry sexy moves later, tightened almost to maximum and with blob of Traxxas in it, it's much better. The feel reminds me of the Weilong, but crunchier and with more stable corners. I can see why you like it. I'm not sure it will be my main though, because of the size and the fact that it's so noisy I can only use it when everyone is out. Plus I'm in love with my Fangshi and could never forsake it for another.


Ok, I am glad you like it better allready. In few weeks if you use regular it will be much better.


----------



## sneaklyfox (Nov 13, 2013)

Schmidt said:


> From Race to sub20
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Boom baby
> ...



Nice, Schmidt!

Marcel: You'll get that sub-2. Are you still trying out the Weisu? Do you think you'll go back to Shengshou? Also, maybe what you need is a white Weisu. Looks like yours is black. I wonder why you didn't get a white one since I think you prefer white cubes?


----------



## MarcelP (Nov 14, 2013)

Schmidt said:


> From Race to sub20
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Boom baby
> ...


You are improving without practice  Nice..



sneaklyfox said:


> Marcel: You'll get that sub-2. Are you still trying out the Weisu? Do you think you'll go back to Shengshou? Also, maybe what you need is a white Weisu. Looks like yours is black. I wonder why you didn't get a white one since I think you prefer white cubes?



I ordered from Wallbuys because they are the cheapest. The black ones where first ones they had in stock. I might buy an original color. All my original color cubes are faster than other cubes.


----------



## MarcelP (Nov 15, 2013)

sneaklyfox said:


> Marcel: You'll get that sub-2.



And all I had to do was switch back to ShengShou. I did an Ao30 which was 5 seconds faster than Ao30 yesterday with WeiSu. And my first sub 2:

[video=youtube_share;lyOmKBC8LE0]http://youtu.be/lyOmKBC8LE0[/video]

EDIT: With parity  Method Hoya


----------



## sneaklyfox (Nov 15, 2013)

Haha, love that reaction. It made me smile.  How do you know it's not because you're better on white cubes?

PS - Why it took you 8 seconds to recognize U-perm?


----------



## cubizh (Nov 15, 2013)

Only judging from the video, you seem to be affraid to mess up or do a wrong step or explode the cube.
Do an average on the 4x4 with 3x3 scrambles and notice the difference.


----------



## MarcelP (Nov 15, 2013)

sneaklyfox said:


> Haha, love that reaction. It made me smile.  How do you know it's not because you're better on white cubes?
> 
> PS - Why it took you 8 seconds to recognize U-perm?


I do not know. I thought I had a parity case 


cubizh said:


> Only judging from the video, you seem to be affraid to mess up or do a wrong step or explode the cube.
> Do an average on the 4x4 with 3x3 scrambles and notice the difference.



Yeah the 4x4 part I turn a lot slower. 4x4 moves just do not come natural to me yet. I average 35 - 36 seconds 3x3 on 4x4.


----------



## sneaklyfox (Nov 15, 2013)

You know those xx:xx.29 times when you're trying to get sub X? I had one it was xx:xx.12 argh.


----------



## MarcelP (Nov 15, 2013)

sneaklyfox said:


> You know those xx:xx.29 times when you're trying to get sub X? I had one it was xx:xx.12 argh.



I usually do not really pay attention to how close I get to my PB, but this 2 minute barriere has been so tough to crack  I think I should now stop timing my self on 4x4 for a while.


----------



## mark49152 (Nov 15, 2013)

MarcelP said:


> Yeah, Chilong is definatly my main. Imagion doing the first 100 solves on a new cube and breaking all PB's except single (although I had three that where sooooo close).  This cube is the best cube there is for my style.


My "longs" arrived today and I am seriously impressed. Both are great but the ChiLong in particular is out of the box the best cube I've ever bought. It needed no retensioning or relubing - it was just instantly great. I have spent hours messing with other cubes to get them just half as good as the ChiLong.


----------



## sneaklyfox (Nov 15, 2013)

mark49152 said:


> My "longs" arrived today and I am seriously impressed. Both are great but the ChiLong in particular is out of the box the best cube I've ever bought. It needed no retensioning or relubing - it was just instantly great. I have spent hours messing with other cubes to get them just half as good as the ChiLong.



Great! Cuz I'm still a skeptic waiting for my Su- and Chi-.


----------



## MarcelP (Nov 16, 2013)

mark49152 said:


> My "longs" arrived today and I am seriously impressed. Both are great but the ChiLong in particular is out of the box the best cube I've ever bought. It needed no retensioning or relubing - it was just instantly great. I have spent hours messing with other cubes to get them just half as good as the ChiLong.


Yeah, freaking awesome cube huh? I have been solving my ChiLong the most and think it is time to call him my main (since I am also loving the Gan III V2). Pure awesomeness.


----------



## MarcelP (Nov 18, 2013)

sneaklyfox said:


> How do you know it's not because you're better on white cubes?



After using my ShengShou for a few days I did a few solves on the WeiSu again. I must say, it is slower, but soooo much less locky. It really felt nice going back to WeiSu after doing about 100 solves on my ShengShou.. You need a way more acurate turning for ShengShou. One of these days I will order a white or original color


----------



## sneaklyfox (Nov 18, 2013)

Well, I've felt a SS (v3) before and it was wayyy less locky than my sad cube. So I am soooo curious what the Weisu will feel like when I get it!


----------



## MarcelP (Nov 19, 2013)

sneaklyfox said:


> Well, I've felt a SS (v3) before and it was wayyy less locky than my sad cube. So I am soooo curious what the Weisu will feel like when I get it!



Is your WeiSu already on it's way to you?


----------



## sneaklyfox (Nov 19, 2013)

MarcelP said:


> Is your WeiSu already on it's way to you?



Yes, it's on its way. I don't know how long it will take. I've never ordered from Wallbuys before. They shipped on the 14th (before the weekend). From so far away, I kind of don't expect it to arrive sooner than 2 weeks so I guess I will probably get it in early December? That's my estimate. Good timing for an early Christmas. I'll sure let you guys know when it arrives!

Edit: Oops, I mean it shipped on the 8th and 12th? That's what it says. Not sure why there are two dates though. Maybe they shipped the Weisu separate from the Sulong and Chilong? I have no idea actually. It says it left the originating country on the 14th or thereabouts. I have two numbers so... yeah I'm a bit confused but as long as the stuff I ordered gets here I don't really care if they come separately.


----------



## kcl (Nov 19, 2013)

sneaklyfox said:


> Yes, it's on its way. I don't know how long it will take. I've never ordered from Wallbuys before. They shipped on the 14th (before the weekend). From so far away, I kind of don't expect it to arrive sooner than 2 weeks so I guess I will probably get it in early December? That's my estimate. Good timing for an early Christmas. I'll sure let you guys know when it arrives!
> 
> Edit: Oops, I mean it shipped on the 8th and 12th? That's what it says. Not sure why there are two dates though. Maybe they shipped the Weisu separate from the Sulong and Chilong? I have no idea actually. It says it left the originating country on the 14th or thereabouts. I have two numbers so... yeah I'm a bit confused but as long as the stuff I ordered gets here I don't really care if they come separately.



Took a week for me. I'd expect it by Friday.


----------



## sneaklyfox (Nov 19, 2013)

kclejeune said:


> Took a week for me. I'd expect it by Friday.



You're getting my hopes up, hehe. It's ok... I'm pessimistic by nature. I tell myself December and if it arrives sooner I will be thrilled! Optimistic people will think, "It will arrive tomorrow!" and then when it doesn't they are disappointed. I'd rather not deal with disappointment that's why I do what I do. It's like telling oneself an almost sure falsehood.


----------



## kcl (Nov 19, 2013)

sneaklyfox said:


> You're getting my hopes up, hehe. It's ok... I'm pessimistic by nature. I tell myself December and if it arrives sooner I will be thrilled! Optimistic people will think, "It will arrive tomorrow!" and then when it doesn't they are disappointed. I'd rather not deal with disappointment that's why I do what I do. It's like telling oneself an almost sure falsehood.



That's what I do XD assume the worst and be pleasantly surprised if it turns out better. But generally I'm not a pessimist, just a realist


----------



## MarcelP (Nov 19, 2013)

sneaklyfox said:


> It says it left the originating country on the 14th or thereabouts.



That is usually plus two days for it to arrive in your country, two more days to pass clearance and one or two days for the mailman to bring it to your house. Friday is doable.


----------



## sneaklyfox (Nov 19, 2013)

Heh... ok, maybe it won't be December, but this Friday is a little too optimistic for me.


----------



## cubizh (Nov 19, 2013)

sneaklyfox said:


> Yes, it's on its way. I don't know how long it will take. I've never ordered from Wallbuys before. They shipped on the 14th (before the weekend). From so far away, I kind of don't expect it to arrive sooner than 2 weeks so I guess I will probably get it in early December? That's my estimate. Good timing for an early Christmas. I'll sure let you guys know when it arrives!
> 
> Edit: Oops, I mean it shipped on the 8th and 12th? That's what it says. Not sure why there are two dates though. Maybe they shipped the Weisu separate from the Sulong and Chilong? I have no idea actually. It says it left the originating country on the 14th or thereabouts. I have two numbers so... yeah I'm a bit confused but as long as the stuff I ordered gets here I don't really care if they come separately.


I got the exact same order from the exact same store and shipped on the exact same dates as you: 8 and 12.
Will be interesting to see the difference in time, although it seems puzzles travel faster from China to Canada than to any other place on earth (sorry for the slight pun )
Anyway, looking forward to know when you get them, and hope they are good.


----------



## sneaklyfox (Nov 19, 2013)

cubizh said:


> I got the exact same order from the exact same store and shipped on the exact same dates as you: 8 and 12.
> Will be interesting to see the difference in time, although it seems puzzles travel faster from China to Canada than to any other place on earth (sorry for the slight pun )
> Anyway, looking forward to know when you get them, and hope they are good.



Let us know when you get them too then we can compare shipping speed. Of course, it also depends if you live in a big city or not.


----------



## Schmidt (Nov 19, 2013)

I finally got a sub90 4x4x4 single in the weekly


----------



## kcl (Nov 19, 2013)

Schmidt said:


> I finally got a sub90 4x4x4 single in the weekly



Nice job!


----------



## sneaklyfox (Nov 19, 2013)

Schmidt said:


> I finally got a sub90 4x4x4 single in the weekly



Awesome! I only have one sub-90 4x4 single in my life (see my sig). That will all change very soon I hope!


----------



## kcl (Nov 19, 2013)

sneaklyfox said:


> Awesome! I only have one sub-90 4x4 single in my life (see my sig). That will all change very soon I hope!



You got a sub 1:30 on that thing.. I have a whole new level of respect for you now XD


----------



## sneaklyfox (Nov 20, 2013)

kclejeune said:


> You got a sub 1:30 on that thing.. I have a whole new level of respect for you now XD



lol... yeah, believe it

Edit: Well that happened sooner than I thought. I just got my second sub-1:30.
Edit2: Make that a total of three...
Edit3: 4...
Edit4: 5... Ok, I'll stop counting...


----------



## MarcelP (Nov 20, 2013)

sneaklyfox said:


> lol... yeah, believe it
> 
> Edit: Well that happened sooner than I thought. I just got my second sub-1:30.
> Edit2: Make that a total of three...
> ...



WHATTT?How do you do that? Teach me!!


----------



## brian724080 (Nov 20, 2013)

MarcelP said:


> WHATTT?How do you do that? Teach me!!



It's really just to slow down. For one, it makes look ahead easier, and on the other hand, 4x4s are generally harder to control, so slowing down should make the general turning quality easier.


----------



## sneaklyfox (Nov 20, 2013)

Haha, "turning quality"... funny...


----------



## sneaklyfox (Nov 20, 2013)

Ok I was curious... can you guys do like a T-perm (or other perm you like) and time how fast you are on 4x4 compared with a 3x3? I did an Ao5 on each. It doesn't matter if you are fast. I just want to know the relative speeds.

3x3: 1.62, 1.46, 1.49, 1.54, 1.33 = 1.50
4x4: 4.52, 3.27, 4.99, 3.62, 4.29 = 4.14

4.14/1.50 = *2.76*


----------



## cubizh (Nov 20, 2013)

Those 4x4 times are terrible, but probably expected on that cube.
You have a very smooth and nice to watch turning style. 
4x4: 1.92, 1.56, 1.63, (1.93), (1.53) = 1.71
3x3: (1.14), 1.37, (1.39), 1.22, 1.36 = 1.32

1.71 / 1.32 = *1.3*


----------



## MarcelP (Nov 21, 2013)

T-Perms:

CX3: 2.35 = 2.24 (2.68) (2.09) 2.38 2.44

ChiLong: * 2.07* = 2.27 1.99 1.96 (2.39) (1.71)

WeiLong: 2.58 = 2.63 (2.25) 2.33 (3.01) 2.79

WeiSu: *3.63* = (4.05) (3.33) 3.44 3.51 3.93

ShengShou: 3.31 = 3.58 2.84 3.50 (2.69) (3.91)

Interesting.. Also.. I never knew I could do a T-perm that quick on a 4X4 

3.63 / 2.07 = 1.75


----------



## MarcelP (Nov 22, 2013)

Just some random solves with YJ ChiLong. Not particulair fast or anything but this cube is soooo good. I love it.


Spoiler



1. 24.89 U B2 D' R2 D B2 R2 L2 U2 L2 D2 L' B F' R L2 B D2 F D' U F
2. 21.77 L2 D2 F2 R2 U L2 D' R2 U2 L2 B2 L' F' U' B' F' L' U' F D2 R2 U2
3. 24.08 L2 F2 U B2 U F2 R2 D' R2 B2 R2 B' D' F' R F L' D2 U' L B D2
4. 22.79 R2 U' B2 U R2 F2 R2 U2 B2 U L2 F R L U2 F' L U' B2 R' B U2
5. 21.93 U F2 D F2 R2 U' B2 D2 F2 L2 U L' D' L' B' L2 U' R' F' R2 D2 L


[video=youtube_share;gUdv7Azn2wo]http://youtu.be/gUdv7Azn2wo[/video]


----------



## sneaklyfox (Nov 22, 2013)

Chilong has a pleasant sound from your vid. I'm really looking forward to my cubes! I don't think my order is even in the country yet.


----------



## MarcelP (Nov 22, 2013)

sneaklyfox said:


> Chilong has a pleasant sound from your vid. I'm really looking forward to my cubes! I don't think my order is even in the country yet.



Yeah, it is a very soft clicking sound. And it solves so smooth. I hope you will receive it soon. I ordered a black one two weeks ago that is also still in China. My YJ LingGan has landed a few days ago. Hope to get it tomorrow.


----------



## sneaklyfox (Nov 30, 2013)

Hey Marcel, do you do any 5x5? I'm thinking of getting into it finally, like finally getting into 4x4.


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## uniacto (Nov 30, 2013)

I've been away for awhile. Clicked off-topic, saw Marcel's thread. 224 pages. wow. Very impressive!


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## Schmidt (Nov 30, 2013)

sneaklyfox said:


> Hey Marcel, do you do any 5x5? I'm thinking of getting into it finally, like finally getting into 4x4.


He does


MarcelP said:


> 5x5x5: (6:45.27) DNS DNS DNS DNS = DNF


You should join the weekly competition as well!


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## MarcelP (Nov 30, 2013)

sneaklyfox said:


> Hey Marcel, do you do any 5x5? I'm thinking of getting into it finally, like finally getting into 4x4.


Yeah, check the weekly contest.  I even did 5x5 on a competition. The cutoff was 4 minutes and I got a 6.xx. So I got a DNF. So I decided not to do 5x5 at competion again because I don't like the dissapointment of DNF. I like solving 5x5 and average 6 minutes now. Did you get your cubes already?


uniacto said:


> I've been away for awhile. Clicked off-topic, saw Marcel's thread. 224 pages. wow. Very impressive!



Did you quit cubing for a while? I could not stay away even if I wanted to.


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## MarcelP (Nov 30, 2013)

Schmidt said:


> He does


Ninjad


Schmidt said:


> You should join the weekly competition as well!



I agree!


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## MarcelP (Nov 30, 2013)

Yeah, my second sub 24 Ao100.. I am getting there..  Last few weeks all my Ao100's have been sub 25. 



Spoiler



Rubik's cube
Nov 30, 2013 9:07:10 AM - 10:36:42 AM

Mean: 23.77
Average: 23.78
Best time: 18.78
Median: 24.10
Worst time: 28.26
Standard deviation: 2.34

Best average of 5: 21.44
82-86 - 20.31 21.10 (26.45) (19.40) 22.90

Best average of 12: 22.93
13-24 - 22.75 22.71 25.53 22.59 21.00 22.43 22.73 (25.98) (19.26) 25.43 24.10 20.04

1. 26.45 F2 L2 D R2 B2 D F2 U' L2 D U B' D2 F' L' F U' B' L2 B' L' U
2. 26.28 L2 D' U2 F2 U' B2 F2 L2 U' L2 U2 B D2 L D' F' U' L' B' R B2 U'
3. 18.87 D' L2 D' F2 D2 R2 U' L2 F2 R2 F2 L U2 R U L F D B2 F L2
4. 24.56 D' L2 U' L2 B2 R2 U R2 U' L2 U2 F' D2 R' F2 D B F2 U2 L B
5. 27.32 L2 B2 L2 U B2 D2 L2 D2 L2 B2 U' B' L2 F U' L D2 R' D2 U' F2
6. 24.46 L2 B2 L2 D2 B2 L2 D' B2 F2 R2 U' B F2 D' B2 F' U' L U B D' U'
7. 23.54 B2 F2 D2 B2 U R2 D F2 D F2 R2 F' R D R' F2 L2 D U2 R B'
8. 23.64 B2 R2 D2 R2 D' L2 D L2 D' F2 U' R' D' U R2 L' D L D B'
9. 28.10 U' F2 L2 U' B2 R2 D' L2 D B2 R2 B R D' R' F2 L U F' R' U'
10. 25.26 U2 L2 D2 L2 F2 D' B2 U2 R2 U B' U F2 R' L' U' B R2 B2 L2
11. 24.23 B2 U B2 R2 U' B2 L2 F2 U' B2 D B' D B F' U L2 B F R F'
12. 21.31 R2 F2 L2 F2 L2 D F2 L2 B' L2 D L B U2 B2 D2 F' R D'
13. 22.75 D' R2 U2 F2 L2 U B2 L2 D' U' L' B' R F' L2 F' D' B F2 U2
14. 22.71 B2 U R2 F2 U2 R2 U' R2 U' F2 D2 F' L' D' U2 B' D2 F' U R' L2
15. 25.53 U' L2 B2 F2 L2 U' L2 D U' R2 U F' R B D' F2 R' L2 U2 B2 R2
16. 22.59 U' B2 R2 L2 U L2 B2 D' R2 D' F2 L U2 L2 F R D' R' U' R2 L U2
17. 21.00 D L2 D' R2 F2 D R2 L2 U2 R2 B2 L F D L2 D R2 L2 F R' D2
18. 22.43 D B2 D R2 B2 D R2 D' F2 L2 U B' D2 F L' D' F2 R U L2 D2 U2
19. 22.73 D' B2 D2 B2 U' F2 R2 F2 U2 L2 U' L' D' F' R' L B R F' U' L'
20. 25.98 R2 D F2 R2 B2 D2 R2 U L2 F2 U2 R' F D2 F2 L B' R2 D R' F' U'
21. 19.26 U' R2 F2 U2 R2 U F2 D' R2 D F2 R' B' R2 U' L' D' R' U' R D' U'
22. 25.43 D F2 D B2 U B2 L2 B2 R2 D R B' R2 D F U2 R' D2 F D2 U'
23. 24.10 U2 R2 B2 D' L2 F2 U2 L2 U' B2 D R D2 U' L' U2 R2 B L2 D' R' D2
24. 20.04 U' F2 U L2 F2 D' R2 U F2 R2 F2 L D B2 L2 F D' U L D' R2 D2
25. 24.11 L2 D2 F2 R2 D' F2 D R2 D F2 U B F' D L' F' L D2 U' F
26. 25.07 R2 B2 R2 U' R2 B2 L2 D F2 U' L' D' R2 U2 F' L2 F' U2 L' U
27. 24.76 U2 L2 U2 L2 B2 D' R2 B2 R2 F2 U' F' D2 L B' L' F D' R D2 B' U'
28. 26.93 R2 U' L2 U F2 U' B2 U' B2 L2 B2 R' D2 B' D' B2 F' R2 B' U' L U'
29. 22.03 D B2 L2 D2 L2 D F2 L2 U' R2 B2 R F L2 D L' B2 F D L' D2 U2
30. 23.51 L2 B2 D F2 U B2 F2 U2 B2 D2 U' R' U2 R F D B' D' B2 L' B' U'
31. 22.59 D2 R2 F2 D' R2 F2 D F2 R2 U' B2 L' B' U' F2 U2 B R' U' F L2 U'
32. 24.90 L2 F2 D2 L2 D F2 D L2 U L2 U2 F' B2 R' D L2 D' F U R'
33. 19.98 U' B2 F2 U R2 D' R2 U L2 D U B' D B' R' U' B2 F' R U' R U'
34. 20.26 U' L2 D' F2 D' R2 F2 U' R2 U L2 B R' U L B2 R' U2 B D L2 D2
35. 27.07 U R2 U B2 F2 D L2 D' B2 U B2 L D2 F' D B D' L' U' B2 R
36. 24.12 L2 D' R2 D' R2 B2 F2 D B2 D U F L B L' F2 L U' R' B2 R
37. 22.25 L2 B2 L2 D' F2 U L2 F2 L2 F2 D F L' F' U' L' B' D2 B' R L D'
38. 22.11 R2 D' L2 D' R2 D B2 R2 D2 R2 U' L D B2 U F D2 R U' L U'
39. 22.70 R2 B2 L2 U B2 U B2 U' B2 R2 L2 B' L' U2 R F2 D' L B2 F D' U'
40. 25.51 U B2 R2 D R2 F2 D R2 B2 D' U' R F' D2 L D B' L' U2 F2 L U2
41. 25.42 B2 D R2 U' B2 F2 R2 D2 U' B2 L2 B R' F2 U' F' D L D2 R B U'
42. 27.92 L2 U R2 B2 D2 B2 L2 U2 R2 U B2 L B' R2 D' L' D U2 R U' F'
43. 22.54 L2 B2 D' B2 D' R2 U2 R2 L2 B2 U2 B D' F R L2 B2 L' F L2 D2 U'
44. 21.93 U' L2 U' F2 D2 B2 L2 D2 L2 U2 L2 F R D2 F D' R2 B R2 L2 F
45. 24.64 U2 L2 F2 R2 U2 L2 D' R2 L2 U R2 B' R F U R' L D' F2 U' F' U2
46. 27.53 U R2 D B2 L2 B2 D' F2 U B2 R B2 F D' B2 D R2 D U2 F' D'
47. 26.01 U F2 R2 F2 D L2 D F2 U' B2 D2 L' U B' U F2 D U' F' R2 U L'
48. 22.93 B2 R2 B2 L2 F2 D' R2 U2 F2 R2 D2 R' B' R U2 R' L' U' L2 F' L2
49. 21.09 R2 U2 L2 U' F2 R2 D' B2 R2 L2 D F L2 U' R D L' F2 D2 L2 F' U'
50. 26.51 D2 R2 F2 L2 F2 D U B2 D' B2 L B2 R' F2 D2 F' D' U' F D
51. 24.45 L2 D' B2 D L2 U B2 F2 D F2 L2 F U B2 R2 F2 R U' F R2 B D
52. 22.84 F2 R2 D' U2 B2 L2 U' B2 L2 D' B2 L R2 D' L2 U' B U R2 F D
53. 25.07 U2 F2 L2 D' F2 L2 U R2 D' B2 D' F' R B' U' R D R2 F L2 B'
54. 27.39 L2 B2 D' U2 B2 F2 U' L2 D U B2 L B' D2 R B' L2 U' B2 F'
55. 22.50 F2 R2 F2 U F2 U F2 U L2 F2 R2 B R D L U' R2 U' L' B' L2 U
56. 26.71 R2 B2 L2 F2 L2 U2 L2 D' B2 L2 D' L F R D2 U' R' B' L' F' R
57. 22.87 F2 U' B2 U' F2 D R2 B2 R2 F2 U' B' F D B F D L F R D' U'
58. 19.85 L2 D L2 U R2 B2 U' B2 U2 F' R' D2 L2 F2 U2 F D' B D
59. 25.00 R2 D2 B2 D R2 U R2 U L2 D F2 L' F R2 B' D2 L2 U R D' L
60. 25.06 U' F2 R2 L2 D F2 U F2 D F2 U' B R B2 R' D B L2 F U2
61. 23.84 U2 R2 U' F2 D' R2 U2 F2 R2 D2 F2 R' L2 B R2 U' F2 R2 F' D' L
62. 22.53 R2 U2 F2 U' B2 L2 U2 R2 D R2 F R2 B' D L' D B' D2 B D2
63. 22.00 L2 U2 F2 D' F2 U2 R2 D' F2 U' L2 F B2 R' D2 R' B F R' B D' U'
64. 26.84 D2 B2 D2 B2 U L2 D L2 F2 R2 L2 B' R' B R2 U' R L2 B' U F2 L'
65. 20.50 U2 F2 D2 L2 F2 L2 U L2 U F2 U R' B D U' F L F2 L2 D2 F2 U'
66. 25.46 R2 B2 U B2 U2 R2 B2 F2 U' L2 U' L' B U2 R L B' R B' U' B2
67. 18.78 D2 R2 U F2 L2 D F2 D' R2 D' R' L' B2 U' L2 B' R2 L B F
68. 22.42 R2 D2 R2 L2 F2 D2 U R2 U B2 U' B U F D B2 L2 U2 R D2 U' L'
69. 23.71 B2 L2 D R2 D' B2 L2 U R2 L2 D2 B L2 U' R U F U F2 D' L' B'
70. 22.39 D' R2 B2 U' B2 R2 F2 L2 D2 F2 U' F' L F2 U2 F L2 U' B' D' R'
71. 25.31 U' R2 B2 L2 B2 D' F2 D' U R2 B2 R' D2 U' F D' B' U' R U2 R2 U2
72. 23.62 D' B2 R2 L2 U2 L2 U' L2 U' F2 R' B' F2 L2 U' R' B L U' R2
73. 28.26 D' B2 F2 U2 R2 F2 D' L2 U' B2 U R' F' L D' B2 L2 F' D R2 L
74. 24.21 L2 F2 D2 U' R2 B2 U2 R2 U' B2 D2 F U L F' U2 F U' R D R'
75. 24.93 U2 L2 F2 D2 F2 D L2 D' R2 B2 U2 R L' F' R D' B' R L U2 R U'
76. 19.21 B2 F2 R2 D B2 D2 U2 R2 D F2 U' R L B2 F' D' B2 L' U F' D' U'
77. 26.32 D' F2 D R2 B2 U' L2 F2 D F2 U' F' U' L D2 B' D R F' L'
78. 23.71 L2 U F2 L2 D' R2 D' R2 U' F2 U B D B' D L' U' F' D' R B
79. 25.93 R2 F2 L2 B2 D' L2 U2 L2 B2 R2 U R D F R' B F' D L D2 R' D
80. 25.86 F2 U2 R2 L2 U L2 U F2 U' R2 U2 L' U R D' L F' L2 D F L'
81. 24.51 D' L2 D' L2 D' B2 L2 F2 R2 D F D R' U' R' U' R' F'
82. 20.31 D2 R2 B2 D F2 U' R2 U2 R2 F2 L2 F' L B2 D R2 B F D2 F' L2
83. 21.10 R2 U B2 U' R2 D' R2 D2 U' R2 B' U L' D' U' L' F' L' F2 R' B'
84. 26.45 F2 D F2 R2 D2 B2 D B2 U L2 D2 B D R D2 R2 D' B2 D F2 D'
85. 19.40 R2 D' U' F2 R2 D B2 F2 L2 U L2 F L B' F D R' F2 D' B2 U
86. 22.90 F2 U L2 U' F2 U2 R2 D' R2 B2 U' B' R D2 F U R D2 L' D B' D
87. 28.25 F2 D' F2 D F2 U B2 D L2 D2 F' L' F2 R B D2 F' R' D F U'
88. 21.54 D' L2 D' B2 R2 B2 U B2 L2 D' L2 F R L2 U L2 U L B' D2 U
89. 24.09 B2 L2 D U2 F2 D2 U' B2 U' B2 U' F' L' B' D U' R D F' U L2 U'
90. 25.60 R2 F2 D B2 L2 U B2 R2 D' U2 F2 R U2 L' F D' R2 D' U' R2 F' R2
91. 20.71 B2 R2 B2 F2 D L2 F2 D2 U B2 F2 R' B F D L' D2 U F2 U' L2
92. 23.65 B2 U R2 U2 B2 D' L2 U R2 B2 U' F D' U2 R' F' L2 B L' D B2
93. 25.06 D2 R2 L2 F2 R2 D2 L2 U R2 D F' R' B2 R U2 B F' L' D2 U2
94. 24.14 D' B2 F2 L2 U' F2 U R2 B2 U2 L' B' D' B F' R B' F2 R' F2 U'
95. 19.03 U' F2 U' R2 L2 D' L2 D2 F2 U' F2 R' D2 F' L' D U2 B D2 R2 B L2
96. 25.89 R2 F2 D' L2 F2 D' F2 R2 U2 B2 R F U F2 L' D2 B' D2 B2 D' U'
97. 24.59 L2 U2 R2 U L2 F2 D2 R2 U' R2 D R' B2 R' D L' F D B2 F2 D
98. 22.50 U B2 D B2 D' F2 U2 B2 F2 R2 U' R' F2 L D2 B' D2 U B R2 B'
99. 25.34 B2 R2 D' F2 U2 B2 U' B2 L2 F2 L D2 R U2 F R' D' B U R D
100. 21.64 D' L2 F2 R2 D2 B2 D' L2 D B2 L2 F' R B F' R' F2 R2 F D L' U2









EDIT: Cube original color *ChiLong*


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## sneaklyfox (Nov 30, 2013)

MarcelP said:


> Yeah, check the weekly contest.  I even did 5x5 on a competition. The cutoff was 4 minutes and I got a 6.xx. So I got a DNF. So I decided not to do 5x5 at competion again because I don't like the dissapointment of DNF. I like solving 5x5 and average 6 minutes now. Did you get your cubes already?



Ok, cool that you do. So I ordered a SS 5x5 from TheCubicle and maybe it will get here before my Weisu haha. No, my cubes aren't here yet but I will let you know when they do! Like my sad 4x4, I also have a sad 5x5 though it's a little less locky, but you have to be 99% accurate before it will turn. I'm not bothering to lube it since I am waiting on the SS. I started practicing for about two days now (a few solves here and there). Yesterday I learned about 2 parity algs (along with the two from 4x4) so I think I can at least solve every case now. I've timed myself about 4 times or something and mostly got 6-7 minutes so I am slow, haha! So I guess you are faster than me... for now. Do you use reduction or Yau? And do you do this "freeslice" business? So far I kind of tried both methods and like Yau better because of look ahead and I am trying my own weird edge "pairing" method as well because I don't like doing stuff all over the cube but I like it more methodical and much easier on look ahead. What do people use for edge pairing on 5x5? I've seen a couple tutorials on youtube but haven't seen one that does it like the way I do it.


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## kcl (Nov 30, 2013)

sneaklyfox said:


> Ok, cool that you do. So I ordered a SS 5x5 from TheCubicle and maybe it will get here before my Weisu haha. No, my cubes aren't here yet but I will let you know when they do! Like my sad 4x4, I also have a sad 5x5 though it's a little less locky, but you have to be 99% accurate before it will turn. I'm not bothering to lube it since I am waiting on the SS. I started practicing for about two days now (a few solves here and there). Yesterday I learned about 2 parity algs (along with the two from 4x4) so I think I can at least solve every case now. I've timed myself about 4 times or something and mostly got 6-7 minutes so I am slow, haha! So I guess you are faster than me... for now. Do you use reduction or Yau? And do you do this "freeslice" business? So far I kind of tried both methods and like Yau better because of look ahead and I am trying my own weird edge "pairing" method as well because I don't like doing stuff all over the cube but I like it more methodical and much easier on look ahead. What do people use for edge pairing on 5x5? I've seen a couple tutorials on youtube but haven't seen one that does it like the way I do it.



Redux with free slice is the way to go. I'm not fast but I could make a video on the "proper" way to edge pair if you'd like!


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## sneaklyfox (Dec 1, 2013)

kclejeune said:


> Redux with free slice is the way to go. I'm not fast but I could make a video on the "proper" way to edge pair if you'd like!



Sure! That would be awesome!


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## MarcelP (Dec 1, 2013)

kclejeune said:


> Redux with free slice is the way to go. I'm not fast but I could make a video on the "proper" way to edge pair if you'd like!



Yes!! I use reduction on 5X5 with no method for edge pairing. That would be awesome.


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## kcl (Dec 1, 2013)

MarcelP said:


> Yes!! I use reduction on 5X5 with no method for edge pairing. That would be awesome.



Alright, I'll try to do it tomorrow.


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## mark49152 (Dec 1, 2013)

Convinsa has a video on freeslice on Cubing World. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CwAwT_0oCd4


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## kcl (Dec 2, 2013)

mark49152 said:


> Convinsa has a video on freeslice on Cubing World. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CwAwT_0oCd4



Wat

l didn't even know about that lol


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## sneaklyfox (Dec 2, 2013)

kclejeune said:


> Wat
> 
> l didn't even know about that lol



Ok, I guess you won't be making a video then. That's ok. I think I got freeslice. I'm going to have to try some more when my SS comes in because right now my sad 5x5 is so slow. However, even on my sad cube, I am faster using Yau5 and my own edge pairing "method". I really do it Yau style but slightly modified. I do two... (are they called "dedges" or something?) and put them in the back so the look ahead is quite simply. Then I just slice and do it like Yau back and forth in the FR and FL places but in such a way that I only need to look for the center edge piece. This makes look ahead really easy because there are basically only 6 specific spots to look for pieces instead of all 3 pieces in one dedge. Forgive me if my terminology is all wrong. I'm still noobish at 5x5 and have a PB at something like 4:30. I don't think my centers are much worse with Yau than with redux either. Anyway, I will practice both redux with freeslice and Yau5 when my SS arrives and then I'll see what happens.


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## MarcelP (Dec 2, 2013)

mark49152 said:


> Convinsa has a video on freeslice on Cubing World. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CwAwT_0oCd4



Ah thanks. Besided SneaklyFox is Convinsa my favorit speedgirl.. I will look at this video later (to busy for cubing right now  )


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## sneaklyfox (Dec 4, 2013)

I just got my Sulong and Chilong! The Weisu is going to come separately so still waiting for that. But always fun to get new cubes to play with anyway! Out of the box, I like the Sulong better. But right now my Chilong definitely has tighter tensions and it feels a bit on the dry side. We'll see what breaking and and lube will do to both these cubes. I don't think I need to change the Sulong much. It's quite nice. I even like the stock stickers. I actually like the orange... some people say it's weird but I like it fine. Great deal for $1!!! Actually the Sulong is like my Fangshi but a bit quieter and a bit more turn resistance.


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## MarcelP (Dec 5, 2013)

Yeah, SuLong is great! I love the stickers too. I received my Black ChiLong yesterday. I replaced the stickers with Cubicle full brights. My favorite colors.  I think that will be my new main. I took some tensioning and lubing to become nice though..


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## Jander Clerix (Dec 6, 2013)

Hey did your shengshou v6 arrive already well if its is a v6?


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## MarcelP (Dec 6, 2013)

Jander Clerix said:


> Hey did your shengshou v6 arrive already well if its is a v6?



No, not yet. In fact I think the trackingnr has not even come alive. I have sent the seller an message asking if it is indeed a SS V6. I got a reply saying it really is a SS V6.


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## MarcelP (Dec 8, 2013)

The only practice I did this week is one Ao100 (more or less) and had a nice sub 24. Today I did another one and broke my Mo3, Ao5 and Ao12:


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## Schmidt (Dec 8, 2013)

Nice! You now have faster single and ao5, but not ao12. Again, I should start to practise!


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## MarcelP (Dec 8, 2013)

Schmidt said:


> Nice! You now have faster single and ao5, but not ao12. Again, I should start to practise!



..My goal to get same averages as Schmidt.. Check!

LOL... I continued the session to Ao200 and got under 23 seconds..


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## mark49152 (Dec 10, 2013)

After a month of intensive F2L and lookahead practice I did my first session of timed full solves last night and smashed all my PB averages by over 3 seconds. Ao50 down from 31.77 to 28.60, ao12 from 29.88 to 26.35 and ao5 from 27.95 to 23.03. Man, I can strongly recommend targeted practice!


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## MarcelP (Dec 10, 2013)

mark49152 said:


> After a month of intensive F2L and lookahead practice I did my first session of timed full solves last night and smashed all my PB averages by over 3 seconds. Ao50 down from 31.77 to 28.60, ao12 from 29.88 to 26.35 and ao5 from 27.95 to 23.03. Man, I can strongly recommend targeted practice!



Nice Mark!! That is some goog stuff. Now we are (almost) about in the same league  What cube did you use?


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## mark49152 (Dec 10, 2013)

MarcelP said:


> Nice Mark!! That is some goog stuff. Now we are (almost) about in the same league  What cube did you use?


Fangshi v2. My F2L practice regime was...

10 solves (pairs only) solving each pair with eyes closed, with as fast TPS as possible;
10 solves (pairs only) stopping before each insert to find the next pair; then insert and setup next pair with as fast TPS as possible (eyes open);
10 solves (pairs only) solving each pair with eyes closed and mentally tracking corner of next pair;
10 solves (pairs only) solving each pair with eyes closed and mentally tracking corner and edge of next pair (hard!);
10 solves (pairs only) going slow and looking ahead, trying to achieve continuous smooth movement and never look at pieces being solved.


Sometimes I'd do 20 or more of each of course, time permitting. Next target is cross and cross-F2L transition


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## MarcelP (Dec 10, 2013)

mark49152 said:


> Fangshi v2. My F2L practice regime was...
> 
> 10 solves (pairs only) solving each pair with eyes closed, with as fast TPS as possible;
> 10 solves (pairs only) stopping before each insert to find the next pair; then insert and setup next pair with as fast TPS as possible (eyes open);
> ...




Good stuff! I have a White and Original color ShuangRen V2. I like them so much but I have converted to being a black cube solver. So I ordered a black one now 

That is good practice. Do you know I still can not do cross blind. Well, at least not with 15 secs inspection. If I do it with my eyes closed I have a 60% success rate I think.


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## mark49152 (Dec 11, 2013)

MarcelP said:


> Do you know I still can not do cross blind. Well, at least not with 15 secs inspection. If I do it with my eyes closed I have a 60% success rate I think.


I am about the same. I get tripped up by missing that pieces will be affected by earlier turns and won't be where I think they will when I come to insert them. 

Blind cross practice is OK but ultimately the point of that is to free your eyes to find the first pair. So my plan is to combine with some of the F2L practice techniques I've been using, like mentally tracking first F2L corner while solving cross blind, etc. So far I've found it much harder, as cross isn't executed from muscle memory like most F2L cases are.


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## sneaklyfox (Dec 13, 2013)

mark49152 said:


> After a month of intensive F2L and lookahead practice I did my first session of timed full solves last night and smashed all my PB averages by over 3 seconds. Ao50 down from 31.77 to 28.60, ao12 from 29.88 to 26.35 and ao5 from 27.95 to 23.03. Man, I can strongly recommend targeted practice!



Awesome! I know I should do targeted practice if I want to progress faster, but I'm having too much fun just solving. Unfortunately it doesn't get me faster. But I'm not too disappointed. I am still improving but just really really slowly. (And also I blame my sleep deprivation for the rest of it.) Anyway, now I'm trying to practice 4x4 and 5x5 more and sometimes practicing on big cubes helps look ahead. I like my Sulong for practice because it cuts very well but it's slower so I'm forced to do "slow down and look ahead". I get some good times with my Sulong! I couldn't get my Chilong very good. I haven't taken it apart to properly lube and tension yet, but my feeling is that I will still like Sulong better. I haven't done anything to my Sulong. It's so good out of the box. Only once I tried some maru on it and it became as fast as other cubes which was pretty cool. It's oddly like my Fangshi though. It's like I practice on my Sulong and then move to Fangshi for a bit more speed.

I am writing a long post because I lost internet for 5 days now and it won't be back up for another several days at least. Boohoo! I'm at Timmies. 

Weisu has not arrived yet boohoo. But I got my SS 5x5 from TheCubicle yesterday and instantly smashed all my PBs with it. Now I average about 3:35 or so. Still haven't gotten that first sub-3 yet. (3:00.15!!!) It's fun though.

Oh yeah, and I got another surprise in the mail. When I went to check, I saw I got something and it was TheCubicle and I was happy for my 5x5 and stickers, lube, bags, etc. But then I looked further in my mailbox and I had another package and I thought maybe it was the Weisu but it was TheCubicle again and I was really confused because I know I only ordered one cube and accessories. I looked in that one and it was... a Dayan megaminx (black, ridged). But I didn't order it? I didn't have a megaminx. So I have to check with them to see why I got it. Christmas present? Haha... I don't think I need to send it back to them, right? Anything like this ever happen to you before?

Anyway, if I don't reply right away, you know why but I will see it when my internet comes back up or if I can't stand it anymore and come back to Timmies to check.


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## MarcelP (Dec 13, 2013)

sneaklyfox said:


> Anyway, if I don't reply right away, you know why but I will see it when my internet comes back up or if I can't stand it anymore and come back to Timmies to check.



Good to hear from you.. wow you are fast on the 5 X 5. That is insane.  


So that's where my megaminx went to.. LOL.. No, I have a SS and NEVER use it  I love my SuLong also very much. In fact, I want to do an Ao100 on my SuLong today to see if I am faster on SuLong than on ChiLong. ChiLong is definatly my main.


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## mark49152 (Dec 13, 2013)

I bought a megaminx a year ago and have never even scrambled it. I'm just too busy with cubes to be bothered with megaminx!


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## Gordon (Dec 13, 2013)

mark49152 said:


> My F2L practice regime was...
> 
> 10 solves (pairs only) solving each pair with eyes closed, with as fast TPS as possible;
> 10 solves (pairs only) stopping before each insert to find the next pair; then insert and setup next pair with as fast TPS as possible (eyes open);
> ...



I must try this.


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## Phillip1847 (Dec 14, 2013)

Gordon said:


> I must try this.


I must try this as well.
I just started.


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## MarcelP (Dec 15, 2013)

New BP Ao12: *20.49*



Spoiler



Mean: 21.11
Average: 21.12
Best time: 17.28
Median: 21.35
Worst time: 24.75
Standard deviation: 1.90

Best average of 5: 19.44
11-15 - 18.62 (21.62) 19.93 (17.28) 19.76

Best average of 12: 20.49
6-17 - 18.31 20.76 21.35 (24.75) 22.57 18.62 21.62 19.93 (17.28) 19.76 23.26 18.71

1. 21.15 L2 D2 B2 R2 D' B2 F2 L2 B2 F2 U' B' U F' U R' D2 F R' B2
2. 21.29 D F2 D' F2 U B2 D F2 U2 F2 U' B' L B U2 B F' U' L' B2 F' D'
3. 22.14 R2 L2 D R2 U' F2 U' R2 L2 D2 B2 L F' D L2 B' L' D2 L2 F2 U2
4. 21.73 R2 F2 R2 B2 D U2 L2 B2 D' U2 R2 F R' L B' U2 R L2 D F L2 U'
5. 21.42 R2 B2 F2 D' L2 B2 F2 U' F2 U' F' U' B' L2 U' L2 F R' L2 D2 U2
6. 18.31 L2 F2 R2 B2 U B2 F2 L2 B2 L2 D2 F R' U2 B2 U R' D' F' D2 B
7. 20.76 L2 B2 F2 D R2 D2 F2 R2 D' L2 D' L' B' R D2 L' D2 F' D' R2 L
8. 21.35 F2 U' F2 U B2 U2 R2 U2 L2 U2 B2 R B2 U' R2 F R' U2 B' U R U2
9. 24.75 D L2 U' F2 R2 D L2 B2 D' L2 D R L2 D U2 F U R' U F' R
10. 22.57 D' L2 F2 D U2 L2 U' L2 F2 R2 U2 B' U2 F' D2 R L' F' U2 L F U'
11. 18.62 F2 D L2 U' B2 U' F2 D2 R2 B2 U' L D2 U L' F' U' F' R' B' L
12. 21.62 U' B2 F2 D L2 D2 U L2 U F2 L D2 F' D2 R' U' R2 F L2 B U2
13. 19.93 U2 F2 L2 U R2 D' R2 L2 D R2 D F U L2 B U' L2 D' R' L2 D U'
14. 17.28 U' B2 D F2 U L2 U' L2 U2 L2 U' F' R' B D' L2 F' L2 B2 F U'
15. 19.76 B2 L2 D' L2 D' B2 D' R2 L2 U2 L2 B R D2 L' D F L U' L2 U2
16. 23.26 U' B2 R2 L2 D2 R2 D R2 B2 U F L F2 D2 B R2 U2 F U L' U'
17. 18.71 L2 D R2 F2 D' B2 U' L2 F2 R2 U' L' D L2 F' L' U L B R2 D
18. 23.73 U' B2 U2 F2 U2 R2 U L2 U' R2 U' R' D' F' D U' L' D F R' U'
19. 22.64 U2 R2 U B2 R2 F2 U' R2 U L2 D L' B2 R' F' R F D B' F' R2 D'



Cube: Black YJ ChiLong


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## sneaklyfox (Dec 16, 2013)

MarcelP said:


> Good to hear from you.. wow you are fast on the 5 X 5. That is insane.
> 
> So that's where my megaminx went to.. LOL.. No, I have a SS and NEVER use it  I love my SuLong also very much. In fact, I want to do an Ao100 on my SuLong today to see if I am faster on SuLong than on ChiLong. ChiLong is definatly my main.



My internet came back this morning! 

Great job with new PB, Marcel! Soon... very soon you will get that sub-20 Ao12 and you'll feel great! It's fun to see how far you've come since this thread was started. And now it's like you have your own little following. Can the person who starts a thread see all the statistics of that thread (like how many people have subscribed to your thread?) because I wonder how many people have subscribed to Marcel's thread.

Well, I admit I haven't tried hard enough to make my Chilong good. I haven't done any lube to it still... only loosened it half a turn on each side. It got better but Sulong is definitely preferred. I count Fangshi, Weilong and Sulong as my main cubes that I use right now. But haven't played with them for a few days because...

My Weisu FINALLY came on Friday!!!!!!!! I was also sick with a fever on Friday so someone else got it at the door. They didn't bother to tell me until later. ("Did you get your cube?" "Whaat CUBE?!?!") I had considered making an unboxing video and first solve video before but as I was sick and just wanted to get it out finally after the long long wait, I didn't make a video (sorry). I was amazed how smooth it was and the corner cutting is amazing compared to my sad cube. I beat my PB single on the very first solve with it by 2 seconds and a few solves later got a 1:15.87 as well. But I was still very sick and tired so I didn't do much with it the rest of the evening as I slept. Next day I wasn't feverish anymore... and got my current PB single (1:06.24). Of course smashed all my other PB Ao5 and Ao12 with it. And yeah, the slight sluggishness went away after some 70ish solves and it's only getting better. I'm now at maybe 120 solves with it or something like that.

Oh yeah, and the megaminx I mentioned was a shipping mistake... it was meant for someone else in Canada but they told me I could keep it! So I get a free megaminx. I've solved it a couple times so far. It takes me forever though. I am a total megaminx noob. Wow, too many new cubes to play with. Should keep me busy for awhile...


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## MarcelP (Dec 16, 2013)

sneaklyfox said:


> My Weisu FINALLY came on Friday!!!!!!!!



I hope you are feeling well again. Nice that you love your Weisu! I am still waiting for my original color Weisu and suposedly ShengShou V6  No, I can not see any statistics on this topic. I am really glad this topic exists. It is the only reason why I come here.. LOL.. No, I also really like the weekly competition so that is not true.


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## uniacto (Dec 20, 2013)

MarcelP said:


> Did you quit cubing for a while? I could not stay away even if I wanted to.



I still cube once in awhile, but I'm not very active in the forums now (besides the weekly comp thread that I've been updating). Maybe two to three solves a day? I should post up an avg video soon though... it's been a long time since I made a video on Youtube lol. 

sorry for the late reply, I just remembered I posted on this thread xD


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## mark49152 (Dec 20, 2013)

Been doing PLL attacks again. PB 60.20 - so close now to sub-1!  Could have had a 57.xx if I hadn't had a spasm on the last two turns.


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## MarcelP (Dec 20, 2013)

mark49152 said:


> Could have had a 57.xx if I hadn't had a spasm on the last two turns.



LOL.. Very loud...


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## mark49152 (Dec 21, 2013)

MarcelP said:


> LOL.. Very loud...


Yay! 58.39 on the 45th completed attempt.  Probably just as many failed attempts. Man my left hand aches now!


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## MarcelP (Dec 22, 2013)

Just had a fulle step sub 14: (last solve in a Ao50 23.xx)

50. 13.62 D' L2 U' R2 D L2 U' F2 U2 L2 B2 L' U F' R B' R' D' L2 B D2 U2

y (white on U, red on F)
R D2 R' L U' R' F R D' 
//and from here it is pretty obvious  Two pairs in U layer but after slotting the first one a third pair comes in U layer.. Awesome


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## mark49152 (Dec 22, 2013)

I got a long 4th pair, L OLL and R perm... Is that what you got?


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## MarcelP (Dec 22, 2013)

Yep! 

EDIT, oh no, I just checked. T-Perm (one of few PLL's I can sub 2)


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## MarcelP (Dec 22, 2013)

mark49152 said:


> Yay! 58.39 on the 45th completed attempt.  Probably just as many failed attempts. Man my left hand aches now!



Ok I have made a word doc with 21 PLL pictures. I have tried about 20 times before I had a full PLL attack without making a mistake. I got around 1.40. I guess I really really suck at this. I take at least 1 second per picture (like this




) before I remember the algorithm.


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## mark49152 (Dec 22, 2013)

Yeah I memorized a sequence and do them without following a list. I can imagine that would slow me down. The sequence is sort of in muscle memory now along with the algs. Lockups and fumbles are what makes the difference for me between a good and bad attack. I average about 1:04 and that 58 was with no fumbles or catches at all, which is rare for me


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## ThomasJE (Dec 22, 2013)

Mark is right. A PLL attack is basically a 200 odd move algorithm.


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## sneaklyfox (Dec 22, 2013)

MarcelP said:


> Just had a fulle step sub 14: (last solve in a Ao50 23.xx)
> 
> 50. 13.62 D' L2 U' R2 D L2 U' F2 U2 L2 B2 L' U F' R B' R' D' L2 B D2 U2
> 
> ...



Awesomeness! Time to update your sig.


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## MarcelP (Dec 22, 2013)

sneaklyfox said:


> Awesomeness! Time to update your sig.



Yep, thanks!


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## MarcelP (Dec 23, 2013)

Why did not anyone tell me that the ShengShou Aurora is an amazing cube? I did not order the cube untill this month since I really do not like ShengShou 3X3's. But after doing a few Ao100's which where all sub 24 on standard stickers and single PB yesterday (13.62) I have a feeling I am on to something  First solve of today (on Aurora):

1. 15.75 R2 D' U2 R2 L2 U' R2 U' B2 F2 U2 F' L U L F R U2 R U' F2

few solves later

17. 16.40 L2 D B2 D' R2 B2 R2 L2 U2 B2 U' F L B' R2 L2 D2 L' F' D F' L'

Yeah.. this cube is my new main


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## TDM (Dec 23, 2013)

MarcelP said:


> Why did not anyone tell me that the ShengShou Aurora is an amazing cube?


I thought it was so obvious I didn't need to tell you  It's my main too atm. One other thing I love about it that you can't do with most cubes is remove the caps from two opposite sides and swap them. It's interesting solving with this colour scheme, because it isn't noticeable most of the time, but when you're going fast you insert pairs adjacent to where they should be... then the whole solve is ruined


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## Schmidt (Dec 23, 2013)

Oh! I thought you had an open order where they just send you all cubes released and then subtract the amount from your credit card.

Congrats on the nice times. I wish I had as much time/dedication to cube as you do.


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## sneaklyfox (Dec 23, 2013)

MarcelP said:


> Why did not anyone tell me that the ShengShou Aurora is an amazing cube? I did not order the cube untill this month since I really do not like ShengShou 3X3's. But after doing a few Ao100's which where all sub 24 on standard stickers and single PB yesterday (13.62) I have a feeling I am on to something  First solve of today (on Aurora):
> 
> 1. 15.75 R2 D' U2 R2 L2 U' R2 U' B2 F2 U2 F' L U L F R U2 R U' F2
> 
> ...



Oh great... don't make me buy another cube! Haha... video with Aurora, please?


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## mark49152 (Dec 23, 2013)

Aurora is my night time cube as it's so quiet. It's tight to keep the clicking noise down, which means it's slower, though.


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## MarcelP (Dec 23, 2013)

Schmidt said:


> Oh! I thought you had an open order where they just send you all cubes released and then subtract the amount from your credit card.
> 
> Congrats on the nice times. I wish I had as much time/dedication to cube as you do.



Lately I also do not have as much time as I would like  Thanks. And yeah I have a cube buy problem  Good thing I only like 3X3 cube that much. 



sneaklyfox said:


> Oh great... don't make me buy another cube! Haha... video with Aurora, please?



Yep, will do..



mark49152 said:


> Aurora is my night time cube as it's so quiet. It's tight to keep the clicking noise down, which means it's slower, though.


Yeah, but controllable. And it is definitely faster than my Sulongs.


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## sneaklyfox (Dec 23, 2013)

MarcelP said:


> Yeah, but controllable. And it is definitely faster than my Sulongs.



Aurora faster or slower than Chilong? Actually I quite like my Sulong and I haven't even done a single thing to it... neither tension nor lube. I have actually gotten quite good times with my Sulong... like 10-12's... just that I stopped doing 3x3 much since I got my Weisu and actually I am even working on megaminx nowadays. To me Sulong is awesome as a practice cube until I get faster because the bit of sluggishness means I am forced to slow down and then my look ahead gets better. It slows you down but doesn't sacrifice corner cutting. That's the best. Do you have a megaminx, Marcel? I was never intending to get into megaminx... I turned one once at competition and thought I wouldn't really like the puzzle, but since I got the mistake order ridged Dayan megaminx for free I thought I'd better make good use of it as it would be like the most expensive puzzle I have.


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## mark49152 (Dec 23, 2013)

sneaklyfox said:


> Aurora faster or slower than Chilong?


I would say slower, at least at the tensions I have it, which is almost as tight as it will go. It also has very smooth surfaces which I think mean that even the tiniest amount of lube gives it that overlubed feel. I have just a smear of 10k diff oil in mine. I also find it tires my fingers more than other cubes, presumably because it requires just a little more torque to turn.


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## MarcelP (Dec 24, 2013)

sneaklyfox said:


> Aurora faster or slower than Chilong? Actually I quite like my Sulong and I haven't even done a single thing to it... neither tension nor lube. I have actually gotten quite good times with my Sulong... like 10-12's... just that I stopped doing 3x3 much since I got my Weisu and actually I am even working on megaminx nowadays. To me Sulong is awesome as a practice cube until I get faster because the bit of sluggishness means I am forced to slow down and then my look ahead gets better. It slows you down but doesn't sacrifice corner cutting. That's the best. Do you have a megaminx, Marcel? I was never intending to get into megaminx... I turned one once at competition and thought I wouldn't really like the puzzle, but since I got the mistake order ridged Dayan megaminx for free I thought I'd better make good use of it as it would be like the most expensive puzzle I have.



ChiLong is faster. Yeah I have a Megaminx but never solve it. I do not know without sheetsheet. It takes forever  I don't feel like learning the last layer algs. That's all. I enjoy solving it up to the last layer though  Right now I am learning Square-1. I allready know how to make the cube shape.. Not feeling like learning the rest any time soon LOL



mark49152 said:


> I would say slower, at least at the tensions I have it, which is almost as tight as it will go. It also has very smooth surfaces which I think mean that even the tiniest amount of lube gives it that overlubed feel. I have just a smear of 10k diff oil in mine. I also find it tires my fingers more than other cubes, presumably because it requires just a little more torque to turn.



I have the tentions quite loose. Never had a pop. I lubed it with Maru. It is pretty fast  Love it!


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## kcl (Dec 24, 2013)

You don't need a ton of algs  orient all edges, kinda like 2 look OLL. Then solve edges, using sune until they're solved. Then orient corners by using a sexy move variation, then permute corners the same way. JustKeepCubing has a tutorial on it.


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## MarcelP (Dec 24, 2013)

sneaklyfox said:


> ... video with Aurora, please?



I had an unboxing/ review where I said I did not like it. Unfortunatly that one must have been deleted since I can not find it anywhere. anyway, after the video I loosened up the cube and lubed it and it became great.  So here I only have some sample solved. I filmed this early morning without daylight so my lookahead sucked. 



Spoiler



1. 19.41 L2 U B2 R2 U R2 L2 F2 U' R2 D' L' U' B' D' U F2 U' L D' B2 U'
2. 21.65 D2 B2 D' L2 B2 R2 F2 U' L2 U L2 F U' L2 F2 R' F2 U' R' F' L' U2
3. 24.74 D R2 U R2 D2 R2 U' B2 L2 F R U2 B L F' R B' U F2 U2
4. 29.08 D2 F2 R2 B2 D F2 L2 D' F2 R2 D B L2 R F' U2 L2 R U' R2 U2
5. 25.00 D' L2 D2 F2 U2 F2 R2 F2 D F2 L2 B L D2 B2 U2 L F' R2 F' U'
6. 18.08 R2 F2 D2 B2 D F2 L2 R2 F2 R2 U' R' F L2 D' U2 L2 R' F' D' B2
7. 20.50 D L2 D F2 D R2 D2 F2 U' F2 U R B D2 L' D' L F D2 L' B



[video=youtube_share;3mL_YJ11aJg]http://youtu.be/3mL_YJ11aJg[/video]


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## Yellowsnow98 (Dec 24, 2013)

Your solves have gotten so much smoother since I went on my "hiatus". Your F2L is really fluid now.


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## MarcelP (Dec 24, 2013)

Yellowsnow98 said:


> Your solves have gotten so much smoother since I went on my "hiatus". Your F2L is really fluid now.



Thanks! I have worked hard on F2L. Especially hard cases go much faster now. Cross + 1 is also much better (around 4 - 5 secs). Complete F2L 12 - 14 secs.. But that damn last layer..


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## MarcelP (Dec 26, 2013)

Ao50 22.90  Nice.. 



Spoiler



Rubik's cube
Dec 26, 2013 10:59:05 AM - 11:36:25 AM

Mean: 22.90
Average: 22.90
Best time: 17.45
Median: 22.75
Worst time: 28.51
Standard deviation: 2.24

Best average of 5: 20.80
37-41 - 20.57 (25.98) (20.48) 20.78 21.04

Best average of 12: 21.57
4-15 - (19.75) 19.95 23.84 22.93 19.90 21.65 21.68 (25.95) 20.92 22.53 21.79 20.54

1. 22.68 B2 U2 R2 U2 R2 B2 U B2 U L2 U F' D R B' L' B' R B' D U'
2. 26.01 U2 L2 U' R2 D F2 D2 U R2 D U' F' R2 F R' B' L2 F2 L' U2 R2
3. 23.28 F2 D' B2 L2 D2 U F2 L2 F2 L2 U2 F L U' B L2 B2 R2 F U L2 U2
4. 19.75 B2 F2 R2 D2 B2 R2 D L2 D' F2 U2 R' U F2 U R B F' R L2 F' L'
5. 19.95 U' R2 D' R2 D2 R2 U2 L2 F2 R2 U B U' L2 F L' B U R2 L B L
6. 23.84 U' R2 B2 L2 U2 B2 L2 F2 U' R2 B2 R' B2 F L' B' U R' F L D' U2
7. 22.93 U' R2 D F2 R2 D F2 U' L2 F2 U' B' L2 U' F' U2 L F2 U' F R'
8. 19.90 U' L2 U R2 F2 R2 D' R2 B2 U' B L' D2 F2 R U L F D2 R2 D2
9. 21.65 B2 L2 D' F2 R2 D F2 D2 B2 R2 B2 L F D B' D' B' L D2 B D'
10. 21.68 D L2 U2 B2 R2 B2 D' F2 U B2 D' R' L2 F' D' R2 U' R' D2 F2 R D
11. 25.95 D B2 D F2 U B2 U' L2 D' R2 D F' L' D' R L2 B2 D L F2 L2 U'
12. 20.92 D F2 U2 B2 D B2 U L2 B2 U2 F D L2 U' F2 R2 F' R' B2 L' D
13. 22.53 L2 D' L2 D B2 D' B2 U' B2 F2 L' B R' L F' U B D L F' U'
14. 21.79 L2 B2 L2 U' L2 F2 D' F2 D' B2 U B L' D' R' U' F2 R2 L' D2 B'
15. 20.54 D' R2 D' U2 L2 U L2 F2 U2 L2 B R' L2 D B U R2 L' D' B' U'
16. 21.53 D L2 B2 U B2 R2 D2 R2 U R2 D' R' L' F' D L F2 D' R B R2 L2
17. 22.12 F2 D B2 D' B2 U' L2 D B2 D U' R' D R2 L' D B F D U B
18. 22.12 U2 F2 D F2 U2 B2 F2 R2 D2 L2 U' B' U' R' D' B R2 D' F' D F2 R'
19. 21.34 L2 F2 R2 D' B2 D F2 U' F2 U' R2 F L' B2 U' R U2 B U' R2 L'
20. 23.14 U2 L2 B2 U' R2 U' B2 D2 U B2 L2 B' U' R2 U2 F R F2 U' R D
21. 22.54 L2 B2 U R2 F2 L2 D' F2 D' F2 U' R D L' U' F' R' D F' D F U'
22. 25.87 R2 D2 R2 B2 U B2 U F2 D' B2 D2 F' R' U2 B' R D' B2 D2 R U2 L'
23. 23.20 U' B2 D' L2 U L2 F2 R2 D' B2 L2 F' D F L F' R' D2 L2 B2 D' L
24. 23.92 F2 R2 U' B2 U F2 L2 B2 F2 U' R' D U2 F' D' L U2 F2 U'
25. 25.20 B2 R2 U L2 B2 D' B2 D2 U F2 U' F' D2 B2 R D B U2 B2 F R'
26. 24.06 U B2 L2 U2 F2 L2 U' B2 D F2 L2 B' D2 L B R L U' R2 L' B' R2
27. 20.96 R2 F2 L2 U B2 D2 R2 U2 L2 F2 U' R F' D' R2 L D U' L' U' B2 U'
28. 24.54 D' B2 L2 U B2 D' F2 U L2 U R2 F' L2 D B' U2 L F R B2 L'
29. 25.53 U' B2 U' R2 U' L2 U' L2 D F2 R2 B' D' R' L' D' B' R2 D' L2 F'
30. 20.82 D' U' F2 U2 B2 D' L2 B2 R2 B2 L' U F R' B L D' L' B D' U
31. 24.46 F2 D U B2 R2 B2 D B2 R2 D' L2 B' R2 L U2 F R2 B2 D' R' F D'
32. 23.82 L2 D' R2 D B2 U R2 U' B2 F2 U' L' B' R L2 U R L' B U
33. 24.70 B2 U' L2 U' B2 F2 L2 D2 U' B2 L2 F D F2 U2 R U2 B' U' L B D'
34. 28.51 F2 U2 L2 U' F2 U B2 L2 U2 L2 D2 F L B' F' L' F R' B2 R2 L' U2
35. 24.51 D2 F2 U2 L2 F2 D F2 D2 L2 F2 U F' D R L' B R2 D' F' R' F' D
36. 25.67 R2 D' F2 U' L2 U F2 L2 D' F2 D2 L U2 B F D' L D2 B R' L' U'
37. 20.57 D R2 F2 R2 D U F2 D' L2 U' L' D U' F D' R L2 D F2 R2
38. 25.98 L2 U2 L2 D2 U F2 D2 R2 U2 R2 B U B2 D2 R F' U R2 D L
39. 20.48 U2 L2 U R2 L2 U F2 R2 D F2 U L B' R U L' U F D' B' U
40. 20.78 U R2 F2 U L2 F2 D U2 L2 F2 U B' L D U' B2 L' F U' B' L2 U'
41. 21.04 D' F2 R2 U R2 L2 F2 U F2 U F2 L' B' R2 B' R' D' R B2 F2 D'
42. 26.70 R2 D F2 D F2 U2 L2 D L2 B2 F2 R F U2 B U2 B' D' L' U' R U'
43. 22.42 D' B2 F2 R2 U R2 U L2 U' R2 U2 L U F' L D' F' R D U F' D'
44. 22.93 D2 R2 L2 U B2 D R2 U2 L2 B2 F2 R' B' R2 F L' D L2 F2 L B U'
45. 23.78 R2 U2 L2 F2 D R2 D' B2 D' L2 B' D' U2 R' L2 U2 L' F R' F U'
46. 26.68 D2 L2 U2 R2 B2 D' B2 L2 U' F2 R2 B' R' L D' B' L U R D L2 D2
47. 19.60 U' L2 U' B2 D' F2 U B2 D' B2 L2 B' F R2 U' R2 L' D R' L' F U
48. 17.45 U2 B2 U L2 D' F2 U' L2 U' F2 D' L U L' D2 L2 B F D' R' F2 U
49. 21.95 R2 D R2 F2 D' L2 D R2 U F2 L2 B L' D' B U' R2 F L U R' U2
50. 22.81 U2 R2 U' L2 D' B2 R2 D B2 L2 D' B R B D' B' R2 B2 F2 U2 R'


----------



## MarcelP (Dec 26, 2013)

Sub freaking 23. Nearly blew in it in the last 15 solves or so..  Got tired I guess


----------



## ThomasJE (Dec 26, 2013)

Wow... You're getting fast...

Damn... He can't overtake me. Need to practice... And learn rest of PLL...

*MUST PRACTICE!!!*


----------



## kunparekh18 (Dec 26, 2013)

awesome progress!


----------



## MarcelP (Dec 26, 2013)

ThomasJE said:


> Wow... You're getting fast...
> 
> Damn... He can't overtake me. Need to practice... And learn rest of PLL...
> 
> *MUST PRACTICE!!!*





kunparekh18 said:


> awesome progress!



Yep, Feliks and Mats better watch out


----------



## MarcelP (Dec 27, 2013)

My entry in weekly competition fo 4x4:

*4x4x4*: 1:58.02 (1:58.87) 1:56.37 1:57.91 (1:51.44) = *1:57.43* //First sub 2 average and PB single, cube SS


----------



## sneaklyfox (Dec 27, 2013)

MarcelP said:


> My entry in weekly competition fo 4x4:
> 
> *4x4x4*: 1:58.02 (1:58.87) 1:56.37 1:57.91 (1:51.44) = *1:57.43* //First sub 2 average and PB single, cube SS



Hey! That's awesome!! Thought you were just trying to get sub-2 times but you're beyond that... getting sub-2 averages. Way to go!


----------



## MarcelP (Dec 27, 2013)

sneaklyfox said:


> Hey! That's awesome!! Thought you were just trying to get sub-2 times but you're beyond that... getting sub-2 averages. Way to go!


The funny thing is I average about 2:10 -2:20 but just got lucky 5 times


----------



## ThomasJE (Dec 27, 2013)

Nice Marcel! You're not the only one doing 4x4; I've broken single, Ao5 and Ao12 PB's with my new Weisu (my 4x4 PB's are in my signature). That cube is awesome! Just need a sub 1:30 Ao12 (should be in my grasp) and I'll learn 32223 pairing; my edges are terrible. My splits for Redux are around 15/50/30.


----------



## MarcelP (Dec 27, 2013)

ThomasJE said:


> Nice Marcel! You're not the only one doing 4x4; I've broken single, Ao5 and Ao12 PB's with my new Weisu (my 4x4 PB's are in my signature). That cube is awesome! Just need a sub 1:30 Ao12 (should be in my grasp) and I'll learn 32223 pairing; my edges are terrible. My splits for Redux are around 15/50/30.



And you use Yau or Hoya? Good stuff man!


----------



## ThomasJE (Dec 27, 2013)

MarcelP said:


> And you use Yau or Hoya? Good stuff man!



Neither. Good old fashioned Reduction. Centers, then edges, then 3x3 stage.


----------



## MarcelP (Dec 27, 2013)

ThomasJE said:


> Neither. Good old fashioned Reduction. Centers, then edges, then 3x3 stage.



Oh wow, so there is lots of room for improvement then


----------



## ThomasJE (Dec 27, 2013)

MarcelP said:


> Oh wow, so there is lots of room for improvement then



Oh yes...


----------



## sneaklyfox (Dec 28, 2013)

ThomasJE said:


> Nice Marcel! You're not the only one doing 4x4; I've broken single, Ao5 and Ao12 PB's with my new Weisu (my 4x4 PB's are in my signature). That cube is awesome! Just need a sub 1:30 Ao12 (should be in my grasp) and I'll learn 32223 pairing; my edges are terrible. My splits for Redux are around 15/50/30.



What are you using for edge pairing currently? Maybe learning 32223 is what will get you sub-1:30. Marcel, you did that sub-2 average with Hoya, right? I didn't like Yau last 4 centers until I learned half centers and then it didn't bother me anymore but I think my 3 cross edges is what could use the most work right now.

Weird thing is I haven't done much cubing for the last week because busy with Christmas things.

Edit: AGGHGHHHH!!!! I was just trying to lube in Weisu by just pulling apart the pieces a bit (not disassembly) and discovered that one of the small internal pieces is missing!!! I'm not sure why that is... I don't know if it was always missing or if it's recent. I kind of think it didn't come with the missing part because I think one time during an internal pop I didn't find where it came from until the last edge (12th try). So... likely one of my kids was playing with my cube and popped it but now I'll never be able to find that piece! Arrrghhh!!!!! It still turns ok but I'm sure it would be better without the missing piece. This is really really annoying!!


----------



## rj (Dec 28, 2013)

sneaklyfox said:


> What are you using for edge pairing currently? Maybe learning 32223 is what will get you sub-1:30. Marcel, you did that sub-2 average with Hoya, right? I didn't like Yau last 4 centers until I learned half centers and then it didn't bother me anymore but I think my 3 cross edges is what could use the most work right now.
> 
> Weird thing is I haven't done much cubing for the last week because busy with Christmas things.
> 
> Edit: AGGHGHHHH!!!! I was just trying to lube in Weisu by just pulling apart the pieces a bit (not disassembly) and discovered that one of the small internal pieces is missing!!! I'm not sure why that is... I don't know if it was always missing or if it's recent. I kind of think it didn't come with the missing part because I think one time during an internal pop I didn't find where it came from until the last edge (12th try). So... likely one of my kids was playing with my cube and popped it but now I'll never be able to find that piece! Arrrghhh!!!!! It still turns ok but I'm sure it would be better without the missing piece. This is really really annoying!!



thecubible sells replacements


----------



## MarcelP (Dec 28, 2013)

sneaklyfox said:


> Marcel, you did that sub-2 average with Hoya, right? I didn't like Yau last 4 centers until I learned half centers and then it didn't bother me anymore but I think my 3 cross edges is what could use the most work right now.



I use HoYa now and will stick with that. Love it. Yau centers where no problem for me. I also used half centers (bars). It is just that Hoya has more freedom to start with a any color (except yellow). I hope you will find your missing piece. or else order a spare part at the Cubicle.


----------



## ThomasJE (Dec 28, 2013)

sneaklyfox said:


> What are you using for edge pairing currently? Maybe learning 32223 is what will get you sub-1:30.



I use build rings; I'll see if I can find the video tutorial later.



sneaklyfox said:


> Edit: AGGHGHHHH!!!! I was just trying to lube in Weisu by just pulling apart the pieces a bit (not disassembly) and discovered that one of the small internal pieces is missing!!! I'm not sure why that is... I don't know if it was always missing or if it's recent. I kind of think it didn't come with the missing part because I think one time during an internal pop I didn't find where it came from until the last edge (12th try). So... likely one of my kids was playing with my cube and popped it but now I'll never be able to find that piece! Arrrghhh!!!!! It still turns ok but I'm sure it would be better without the missing piece. This is really really annoying!!



Could it have popped out in the middle of a solve; just the internal? That happened to me once; it just shot up.


----------



## sneaklyfox (Dec 28, 2013)

MarcelP said:


> I hope you will find your missing piece. or else order a spare part at the Cubicle.


Soon as I found out the part was missing I went to TheCubicle to check how much it would cost me to get a replacement... over $6 (including the shipping cost).



ThomasJE said:


> Could it have popped out in the middle of a solve; just the internal? That happened to me once; it just shot up.


I've had internal pops several times already but I always know when it does pop. I went on a search and retrieve this morning. Luckily I found the missing piece in the babies' room. Whew! What a relief!


----------



## MarcelP (Dec 28, 2013)

sneaklyfox said:


> I went on a search and retrieve this morning. Luckily I found the missing piece in the babies' room. Whew! What a relief!



Nice!! It always drives me crazy when I loose something. After Christmass diner (we thought) my 11 year old son had lost his retainer.. We searched for 24 hours to finally find it in his bed. (Must have fallen out of his mouth during sleeping)


----------



## sneaklyfox (Dec 28, 2013)

MarcelP said:


> Nice!! It always drives me crazy when I loose something.



Yeah, me too. Sometimes even if the thing that I lost isn't very important it irks me anyway because of the plain fact that something that was there seemingly disappeared and it seems so illogical and impossible that it bugs me crazy. Haha... silly random thought... you know those keychain things where if you whistle it will beep or make some sound to help you find where you lost your keys? Stick one of those devices in your cubes...


----------



## Lchu613 (Dec 28, 2013)

I lost my Zhanchi. 
But my SuLong that I got from wallbuys makes up for that. It's pretty awesome.
I'm actually quite surprised, I thought it would be pretty slow by what others have said. But it's not, it's faster than my Fangshi. Guess I won't be getting a Weilong for a while, until I get bored of this one.


----------



## MarcelP (Dec 28, 2013)

Lchu613 said:


> I lost my Zhanchi.
> But my SuLong that I got from wallbuys makes up for that. It's pretty awesome.
> I'm actually quite surprised, I thought it would be pretty slow by what others have said. But it's not, it's faster than my Fangshi. Guess I won't be getting a Weilong for a while, until I get bored of this one.


Wow, you must have a very fast SuLong or a really slow ShuangRen  My ShuangRens are so much faster.  But SuLong is nice he?


----------



## Lchu613 (Dec 28, 2013)

I dunno. My Zhanchi was just slightly faster than my ShuangRen. But the SuLong got a major speed boost when I lubed it on the corner bases.

It seems to respond really well to generous amounts of Lubix.


----------



## kcl (Dec 28, 2013)

*Hi, Marcel from Holland here*



Lchu613 said:


> I dunno. My Zhanchi was just slightly faster than my ShuangRen. But the SuLong got a major speed boost when I lubed it on the corner bases.
> 
> It seems to respond really well to generous amounts of Lubix.



My Sr is fairly is slow haha Zhanchis are amazing with a lot of lube though.


----------



## Lchu613 (Dec 28, 2013)

"Is fairly is low"
I think you mean fairly slow. XD

Yeah Zhanchi is still among my favorite cubes. Although I've never felt a good Weilong.


----------



## uvafan (Dec 28, 2013)

Lchu613 said:


> "Is fairly is low"
> I think you mean fairly slow. XD
> 
> Yeah Zhanchi is still among my favorite cubes. Although I've never felt a good Weilong.



I let you try my WeiLong. Was it not good?


----------



## Lchu613 (Dec 28, 2013)

Ok, to fix that statement:
I don't remember ever feeling a good Weilong, since I don't even remember trying yours. XD sorry.


----------



## sneaklyfox (Dec 29, 2013)

Lchu613 said:


> I lost my Zhanchi.
> But my SuLong that I got from wallbuys makes up for that. It's pretty awesome.
> I'm actually quite surprised, I thought it would be pretty slow by what others have said. But it's not, it's faster than my Fangshi. Guess I won't be getting a Weilong for a while, until I get bored of this one.



I heard somewhere that some people's Sulongs are awesome and some are not so good. I forget exactly where I heard that. Anyway, I think I am like you because I have an awesome Sulong and it doesn't actually feel slow to me. But it's about the same speed as my FS. I haven't even done a single thing to my Sulong neither tension nor lube. It came like this from Wallbuys.


----------



## kcl (Dec 29, 2013)

Lchu613 said:


> "Is fairly is low"
> I think you mean fairly slow. XD
> 
> Yeah Zhanchi is still among my favorite cubes. Although I've never felt a good Weilong.



You've never felt mine.


----------



## sneaklyfox (Dec 29, 2013)

Marcel, looks like you're going to have to take out your wallet again. Clicky. Though maybe by now the shops automatically take money from your cubing account and send you new cubes.


----------



## MarcelP (Dec 29, 2013)

sneaklyfox said:


> Marcel, looks like you're going to have to take out your wallet again. Clicky. Though maybe by now the shops automatically take money from your cubing account and send you new cubes.



LOL.. yeah, I probably need one of these.. LOL I signed up to be a tester, I might get lucky as with the V1 where I was an official tester.

About the SuLong, I have three of them, and the black one is faster than the white ones. Normally white cubes feel faster. I like ChiLong a lot better though. I have tried several Ao100's with SuLong but always give up after 40 solves or so because the times are no where near my ChiLong/CX3 times.


----------



## MarcelP (Jan 1, 2014)

PB Ao5 and Mo3!  2014 is going to be great.



Spoiler



Best average of 5: *18.83*
1-5 - (16.37) (21.31) 17.87 19.89 18.73

1. 16.37 R2 B2 U L2 B2 R2 D' B2 F2 U' B' R' D' B' L F2 U' B2 U2 F' U'
2. 21.31 B2 F2 U' B2 F2 D F2 D' F2 U' B2 R F2 D' F' D B U2 L' F2 D2 U'
3. 17.87 B2 L2 D2 L2 D2 F2 R2 B2 D L2 F' R' B' U' R' L2 D2 L' F D2 L' U'
4. 19.89 U' R2 B2 D L2 U' F2 D B2 U' L2 B D2 L U2 B' F R' L' D F' R2
4. 18.73 B2 D U R2 D' R2 F2 R2 U R2 F2 R U B R B F D B2 R' F2 U'



EDIT: cube ShengShou Aurora with Cubicle full brights (55mm)


----------



## sneaklyfox (Jan 1, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> PB Ao5 and Mo3!  2014 is going to be great.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Whoooo! Nice Ao5!


----------



## kcl (Jan 1, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> PB Ao5 and Mo3!  2014 is going to be great.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Awesome job! Sub 20 ao100 is very near.


----------



## MarcelP (Jan 1, 2014)

sneaklyfox said:


> Whoooo! Nice Ao5!


Thanks!


kclejeune said:


> Awesome job! Sub 20 ao100 is very near.


I really hope so.. But for now I will be focusing on 3BLD. So I do not think it will come fast.


----------



## mark49152 (Jan 1, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> But for now I will be focusing on 3BLD


What method are you using?


----------



## MarcelP (Jan 1, 2014)

mark49152 said:


> What method are you using?



Old pochman. One piece at a time, first edges and then corners. I suck at BLD.


----------



## kcl (Jan 1, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> Old pochman. One piece at a time, first edges and then corners. I suck at BLD.



I can't even do it XD. I had a success once. Untuned.


----------



## ThomasJE (Jan 1, 2014)

kclejeune said:


> I can't even do it XD. I had a success once. Untuned.



You mean untimed.  I can't do BLD either; I know the method but not memo.


----------



## kcl (Jan 1, 2014)

ThomasJE said:


> You mean untimed.  I can't do BLD either; I know the method but not memo.



lol autocorrect


----------



## mark49152 (Jan 1, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> Old pochman. One piece at a time, first edges and then corners. I suck at BLD.


Me too. I'm trying to switch to M2 for edges but for some reason can't get my head round it.


----------



## AmazingCuber (Jan 1, 2014)

I'm learning bld at the moment too! Old pochmann corners and m2 edges from Noah's tutorial


----------



## sneaklyfox (Jan 1, 2014)

mark49152 said:


> Me too. I'm trying to switch to M2 for edges but for some reason can't get my head round it.



It took me like two days to work out the kinks in learning M2 edges. Mainly it was because it doesn't quite work when you try doing it sighted one piece at a time.


----------



## mark49152 (Jan 2, 2014)

sneaklyfox said:


> It took me like two days to work out the kinks in learning M2 edges. Mainly it was because it doesn't quite work when you try doing it sighted one piece at a time.


I keep screwing up the M2 setups, I don't know why. OP corners are easy enough. I think the brain cells required for M2 were unfortunately lost long ago in a major drinking incident. I will persevere!


----------



## Schmidt (Jan 3, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> PB Ao5 and Mo3!  2014 is going to be great.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



you are getting too fast! Maybe it is time for "B.O.T.A.#2"


----------



## MarcelP (Jan 4, 2014)

Schmidt said:


> you are getting too fast! Maybe it is time for "B.O.T.A.#2"



Nah, I need to get faster if I want to beat you . Slowly getting there though. I suspect I might get past you in a year or so.


----------



## MarcelP (Jan 4, 2014)

mark49152 said:


> Me too. I'm trying to switch to M2 for edges but for some reason can't get my head round it.



I will look into M2 today and see if I understand it.


----------



## AmazingCuber (Jan 4, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> I will look into M2 today and see if I understand it.



M2 is really good. Check out Noah Arthurs' tutorial on how to solve a Rubik's cube blindfolded part 3 in which he teaches the m2 method.


----------



## mark49152 (Jan 4, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> I will look into M2 today and see if I understand it.


Great. It's the setups for the pieces already in the M layer that I keep messing up.


AmazingCuber said:


> M2 is really good. Check out Noah Arthurs' tutorial on how to solve a Rubik's cube blindfolded part 3 in which he teaches the m2 method.


Seconded - that is the tutorial I used (Cubing World) and it is good.


----------



## MarcelP (Jan 5, 2014)

mark49152 said:


> Great. It's the setups for the pieces already in the M layer that I keep messing up.



Ok, I have been playing with M2 for a day and a half now. I understand the concept, I like the execution. But.. I am not going to switch. M2 over OP has the advantage of speed. Well, I am not interested in speed BLD solving just in BLD solving. I have done many OP solves so that it requires no thinking. The M2 has more stuff you need to think about during a solve. Like when shooting to an M layer target, is M layer aligned. And also a new set of algs. I hate learning algs. In OP egdes I use algs like T-perm, J perm, N perm and R perm which are pretty smooth by now. Right now getting successes is my biggest problem. Learning M2 is not going to help me with anything.


----------



## mark49152 (Jan 5, 2014)

That's kinda the way I feel about it too. I just about got the hang of OP edges and thought M2 looked a lot more efficient so maybe I should invest my practice in that, but, it's not as simple as it initially appears.


----------



## Gordon (Jan 7, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> My entry in weekly competition fo 4x4:
> 
> *4x4x4*: 1:58.02 (1:58.87) 1:56.37 1:57.91 (1:51.44) = *1:57.43* //First sub 2 average and PB single, cube SS



Nice times!
I remeber the time when I was faster than you in 4x4, and now, you're a minute faster and I am still at the same time 

Recently I was looking for a Hoya tutorial, and didn't find any in english besides one. What if you would do one. Since you improved that much, I also tried to switch to Hoya, but no improvement here...

Also... what about a cube collection video?


----------



## MarcelP (Jan 7, 2014)

Gordon said:


> Nice times!
> I remeber the time when I was faster than you in 4x4, and now, you're a minute faster and I am still at the same time
> 
> Recently I was looking for a Hoya tutorial, and didn't find any in english besides one. What if you would do one. Since you improved that much, I also tried to switch to Hoya, but no improvement here...
> ...



LOL, my current entry 4X4 was 2:18 or so I believe.. I can be fast, but I have to get lucky for that 

Yeah, I can make a HoYa tutorial. HoYa has some nice advantages over Yao. Since I know both I might do a video on that. My collection is far from interessting. Way to many 3X3's.. and only a few other types of cubes.. I could do a 'these are my favorite cubes' video once.


----------



## Schmidt (Jan 7, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> I could do a 'these are my favorite cubes' video


, but I would have to edit it every two weeks.


----------



## ThomasJE (Jan 7, 2014)

Gordon said:


> ...Also... what about a cube collection video?



No point. Nobody has two hours to see what cubes a person has.


----------



## MarcelP (Jan 10, 2014)

1st attempt HoYa explaining:

[video=youtube_share;rOrsDZWHwZ4]http://youtu.be/rOrsDZWHwZ4[/video]


----------



## mark49152 (Jan 10, 2014)

I like the way you call it HoYa with a Y. Makes it sound like a new cube


----------



## MarcelP (Jan 12, 2014)

mark49152 said:


> I like the way you call it HoYa with a Y. Makes it sound like a new cube



It's my job that makes me write stuff in Camel-case. LOL I never gave it a second thougt, just happend this way.


----------



## Nilsibert (Jan 12, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> 1st attempt HoYa explaining:
> 
> [video=youtube_share;rOrsDZWHwZ4]http://youtu.be/rOrsDZWHwZ4[/video]



Awesome, would you mind posting the video in the Hoya thread?


----------



## MarcelP (Jan 13, 2014)

Nilsibert said:


> Awesome, would you mind posting the video in the Hoya thread?



Ok, will do..

Just did an Ao12, I am not fast, but getting there.. 



Spoiler



Mean: 2:16.12
Average: 2:17.36
Best time: 1:45.67
Median: 2:20.66
Worst time: 2:34.12
Standard deviation: 15.12

Best average of 5: 2:05.40
1-5 - 2:12.32 2:03.15 (1:58.87) 2:00.74 (2:32.62)

Best average of 12: 2:17.36
1-12 - 2:12.32 2:03.15 1:58.87 2:00.74 2:32.62 (2:34.12) 2:27.23 (1:45.67) 2:18.79 2:22.52 2:31.42 2:25.93

1. 2:12.32 F2 Fw2 Uw L Rw' R' U' D2 Rw' B' U Rw2 Uw F2 Fw' Uw2 F2 Rw' R' U' L2 R B2 D R2 U' L' D' L' U' L' R2 Uw Fw2 Rw' R2 Fw R2 Uw2 Rw2
2. 2:03.15 Fw D2 R2 D Rw' Uw' B D Rw2 U' Uw2 L' Rw' Fw Rw Fw' Uw2 D2 Fw' B' R2 D' R F2 Uw F' D2 L' U' B Uw' Fw B L' R' U' F' D R' U'
3. 1:58.87 L Rw U' L' Fw' U D2 Fw' Uw2 F' U' L2 Uw' L2 R2 F D Fw B L' D Fw2 Uw' F U L Rw F Fw L Fw2 D2 L Rw' R D' F' D2 Rw' Uw
4. 2:00.74 U F' Rw' Fw U D' F2 Rw2 Uw' R2 Fw U2 L2 F' R' Fw2 Uw2 D Rw R' Uw2 D' R2 Fw L' Uw' Rw F U' Uw2 B R' U2 D' B' R' Uw' R' B2 Rw2
5. 2:32.62 L R2 F Fw' D2 L' Uw' D F Uw2 F2 L2 D' L2 R2 Fw L' D' Rw B2 R' U Uw2 B' U2 F2 L2 Uw F R2 Fw2 L2 R Fw2 B2 D2 Rw' F2 Uw' R
6. 2:34.12 L2 F' Fw2 B Rw B2 Uw' R' U L' Rw Uw2 Rw2 U Uw' D' F' B Rw' Uw' Fw D Rw2 D B2 Rw F' B' R' F2 B2 D2 F Fw2 L Rw2 Fw' U2 D' Fw2
7. 2:27.23 R2 Fw2 U F2 U' D' L' F2 R F Fw' B L' F Rw2 F Rw2 Fw L2 U2 Uw2 F2 L2 Rw2 U L' R Uw' Rw2 F' L' U' R U' Fw' Rw2 Uw' L' U2 Fw
8. *1:45.67* F' L2 R B Uw F B U' Uw' R Fw2 B2 L' U' B2 Uw B Uw' D' F2 R' F R2 Uw' B2 U' Uw L2 D' F2 U' F2 Uw2 F2 B D' F2 Rw2 F U'
9. 2:18.79 D2 L Rw' F Uw' B2 Rw U2 Fw D R2 F R U2 L2 R B Rw' U2 Fw2 U' Uw2 B D2 L2 Uw' Rw2 F2 L2 F2 Fw Uw2 F Fw' U2 D' Rw' D' F2 Fw
10. 2:22.52 F' B' L B' U' B' U2 Uw' Rw R2 Uw' L2 B' Rw2 Uw B R Uw L' D B' D2 L U2 F' Fw' L' Fw2 U F U' B' R Uw B2 R2 D R' Fw' B'
11. 2:31.42 Uw' Rw' F Rw' R F' L F2 L' U2 D B' L F2 L' D Fw2 D2 Fw B' U2 Rw2 R2 U L2 B' D R F2 Uw F' B D L2 U Uw Fw2 L F' Rw'
12. 2:25.93 F2 U' F' Fw2 B2 D2 L Uw F Uw' B2 R' Fw2 L D2 F' Fw' L2 B2 D2 L' Fw' B2 Rw2 Fw' L2 F' Fw U R' Uw' D B2 L Uw D2 Fw2 D Fw2 Rw'


Solve nr 8 I got the scramble from Geert Bickler. Awesome scramble  :

[video=youtube_share;W787zoOqYXo]http://youtu.be/W787zoOqYXo[/video]


----------



## MarcelP (Jan 13, 2014)

Some average solves from me:



Spoiler



1. 22.39 D2 B2 U' R2 B2 U' L2 U' B2 U B' D L U2 R L' D' U R' L2 U2
2. 21.82 U2 F2 D R2 U2 R2 L2 D' L2 B2 U' R' B F2 U' L2 D F' L U L2
3. 23.49 L2 F2 D' L2 U' F2 U' L2 U R2 U2 R' B2 R' U2 F D U' B' R L' U'
4. 19.60 R2 F2 D R2 B2 D U L2 F2 D R B' U B2 L2 F2 R' F U' F U'
5. 22.00 R2 U' L2 F2 L2 D F2 D' R2 L2 D2 F R B D' B R F2 D2 R2
6. 24.24 U L2 F2 L2 B2 D2 U' R2 U' F2 D2 R' D U F2 R' B F L2 U F'
7. 20.39 D' L2 F2 R2 L2 U F2 L2 U R2 F2 R F' U' F' D' R2 B F' R2 D L'


I need to work on what?

[video=youtube_share;NXBezI7K_1U]http://youtu.be/NXBezI7K_1U[/video]


----------



## MarcelP (Jan 15, 2014)

I am most often the slowest 2X2 solver in de weekly competition. However, with my new 55 mm ShiShuang I seem to be a bit faster. Here is my entry for the weeklycompetition of this week :



Spoiler



Best average of 5: 8.00
1-5 - 7.99 (10.35) 7.88 8.13 (7.72)

1. 7.99 U' F' U2 R F R U F2 U
2. 10.35 U R' U2 R U2 R F' R2 U2
3. 7.88. R' F' U' R' U R U2 F' R2
4. 8.13 U2 F2 R' F' U R2 F R2 F2
5. 7.72 R F U' F2 R F' R2 F U'


[video=youtube_share;yAaJ2yxKJog]http://youtu.be/yAaJ2yxKJog[/video]


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## sneaklyfox (Jan 15, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> I need to work on what?



I only watched the first 4 solves. Better cross sometimes. Less pauses in F2L. Sometimes you still pause a long time between pairs. Maybe try turning slightly slower but without pause. Force yourself to track the next pair. Faster LL recognition and execution. May need some better fingertricks ie. R perm had too many regrips I think.


----------



## mark49152 (Jan 15, 2014)

Nice solves Marcel!


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## MarcelP (Jan 16, 2014)

sneaklyfox said:


> I only watched the first 4 solves. Better cross sometimes. Less pauses in F2L. Sometimes you still pause a long time between pairs. Maybe try turning slightly slower but without pause. Force yourself to track the next pair. Faster LL recognition and execution. May need some better fingertricks ie. R perm had too many regrips I think.



I have not worked on cross in a long time. I guess that is maybe the first thing to start working on. Turning slower does indeed give me better lookahead, but unfortunatly it does affect my time making my averages 25 secs. I think I must try to maintain this speed and getter better in spotting the pairs. And yes, my R perm is worthless. Too lazy to learn a new one.. I think start looking for a better one.  Thanks.



mark49152 said:


> Nice solves Marcel!



Thanks!


----------



## patrickcuber (Jan 17, 2014)

Dimeg said:


> 'My goal is to get below one second.'
> 
> 
> good luck!



So unrealistic.


----------



## sneaklyfox (Jan 17, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> And yes, my R perm is worthless. Too lazy to learn a new one.. I think start looking for a better one.  Thanks.



2nd solve I think. I use the same alg. Just need better fingertricks...


----------



## MarcelP (Jan 17, 2014)

sneaklyfox said:


> 2nd solve I think. I use the same alg. Just need better fingertricks...



Maybe you could make a video for that one?  Like you did before with one other PLL that I sucked at.


----------



## MarcelP (Jan 17, 2014)

patrickcuber said:


> So unrealistic.



Ah, thanks. I see you just read page 1 of 237.


----------



## mark49152 (Jan 17, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> Ah, thanks. I see you just read page 1 of 237.


...but stopped before post #3


----------



## mark49152 (Jan 24, 2014)

New 3x3 PB ao50 of 27.39. What's interesting about this ao50 is that 11 solves were sup-30 but 14 were sub-25. Generally my solves are now clustered in the mid-high 20s with just a few sup-30s where my lookahead breaks down or I fumble an alg or seize up at recognition. It's like the basic skills are coming together and if I could just find better consistency and rhythm I think I could get sub-25 in a few weeks. Targeted practice is definitely paying off...!


----------



## MarcelP (Jan 24, 2014)

mark49152 said:


> New 3x3 PB ao50 of 27.39. What's interesting about this ao50 is that 11 solves were sup-30 but 14 were sub-25. Generally my solves are now clustered in the mid-high 20s with just a few sup-30s where my lookahead breaks down or I fumble an alg or seize up at recognition. It's like the basic skills are coming together and if I could just find better consistency and rhythm I think I could get sub-25 in a few weeks. Targeted practice is definitely paying off...!



Nice Mark! You are improving fast. I remember clear that 26 secs was my worst plateau so far. I hope you will skip that part.. LOL.


----------



## mark49152 (Jan 24, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> Nice Mark! You are improving fast. I remember clear that 26 secs was my worst plateau so far. I hope you will skip that part.. LOL.


I was stuck at 31-32 for months. At least having a new plateau will be a change of scenery


----------



## kcl (Jan 24, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> Ah, thanks. I see you just read page 1 of 237.



How does that even happen


----------



## pipkiksass (Jan 24, 2014)

kclejeune said:


> How does that even happen



Because this thread is more like a bar than a forum. 

I'll explain:

Marcel is the barman. His name is above the door. Got a problem? You can lean up against the bar and tell Marcel - he's always ready to lend an ear.

Mark, Sneakly, Gordon, Kennan, Schmidt, etc., you are the regulars. You sit at a table in the corner, listening to the jukebox. Your conversations vary, but for the occasional visitors like myself, there tend to be themes that reoccur!

And more than anything else, it's a place you can come and post where you won't be judged, and you'll get a reply in minutes, because it's probably the most visited thread in the forum. For good reason - friendly staff, good beer... hang on, which was the bar and which was the thread again? I've lost track of my metaphor!


----------



## MarcelP (Jan 24, 2014)

LOL!! Good stuff. This is indeed a friendly place to hang out.


----------



## kcl (Jan 24, 2014)

pipkiksass said:


> Because this thread is more like a bar than a forum.
> 
> I'll explain:
> 
> ...



Lolol truth. I'm just not sure how he only managed to see the second post of the first page, since both the first and third posts mention sub 1 MINUTE lol


----------



## mark49152 (Jan 25, 2014)

@Pip: LOL, very good. It's your round 

Whatever I've been drinking, it worked, because PB smashed again tonight. Ao50 = 26.49, almost a second off since breaking it yesterday. Consistency is the key - this time there were 15 sub-25's, 7 of which were sub-23, and only 5 sup-30s. In fact I did 28 solves before the first sup-30, and that only happened because I was getting shaky with excitement.

God I love cubing


----------



## Phillip1847 (Jan 25, 2014)

I was stuck at a 26 second plateau for about 2-3 weeks, but that might be because of a vacation 

Anybody else hate how the sun goes down at like 5:30 and cubing sucks because bad light? No? Just me? My room is awesome but has bad lighting.
I got a sub20 AO5 yesterday. Today I only got 1 sub 20 and my average was 26. I don't even know anymore haha.


----------



## sneaklyfox (Jan 25, 2014)

pipkiksass said:


> Because this thread is more like a bar than a forum.
> 
> I'll explain:
> 
> ...



Hehe... so true... good analogy. For some reason I've lost interest in the forum so I don't check all day anymore (I don't know why... probably just too busy). But I still check this thread. Best place to hang.


----------



## ThomasJE (Jan 25, 2014)

Coke for me please 

Also, I'll have to look into Hoya so I can reconstruct your 4x4 solves...


----------



## MarcelP (Jan 26, 2014)

I had an awefull Ao100 today. Sup 25 (ARRGGGG!!!), But this one made my day:

With two step OLL since I am to lazy to learn this last one 

18. 15.52 D' R2 L2 D F2 D' U R2 U F2 R2 F D2 L U' L' F D' L F2 U2 R

[video=youtube_share;kkGMjZxvH3o]http://youtu.be/kkGMjZxvH3o[/video]


----------



## ThomasJE (Jan 26, 2014)

*MarcelP - 15.52 unofficial single*



Spoiler: Video



[video=youtube_share;kkGMjZxvH3o]http://youtu.be/kkGMjZxvH3o[/video]


D' R2 L2 D F2 D' U R2 U F2 R2 F D2 L U' L' F D' L F2 U2 R

x2 // Inspection
R' U' L2' D2' // XCross
y R U R' // F2L 2
y2 U' R U' U' R' U2 y' R U R' // F2L 3
y U' R U' U' R' U R U' R' // F2L 4
U' r y R U R' U' (z' y) R' // EO
F' r U R' U' L' U l // CO
U' R' U' R y R2 u R' U R U' R u' R2 U // PLL
View at alg.garron.us

```
[B]Step	Time	HTM	HTPS	ETM	ETPS[/B]
[COLOR="#FF0000"]Total	15.52	45	2.90	52	3.35[/COLOR]
Cross+1	1.93	4	2.07	4	2.07
F2L	7.56	23	3.04	29	3.84
LL	7.96	22	2.76	23	2.89
					
[B]%          	Time	HTM	ETM		[/B]
Cross+1/F2L	25.5%	17.4%	13.8%		
F2L/Total	48.7%	51.1%	55.8%		
LL/Total	51.3%	48.9%	44.2%
```


----------



## MarcelP (Jan 26, 2014)

Thanks Thomas. I can see now that the TPS was very slow actually but few moves made it a good solve.


----------



## ThomasJE (Jan 26, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> Thanks Thomas. I can see now that the TPS was very slow actually but few moves made it a good solve.



The 4 move XCross definitely helped as well 

And if only you knew the OLL...


----------



## AmazingCuber (Jan 26, 2014)

Nice Marcel, congrats! Maru CX3 right? Is that your main? That bar metaphor is so awesome.


----------



## MarcelP (Jan 26, 2014)

AmazingCuber said:


> Nice Marcel, congrats! Maru CX3 right? Is that your main? That bar metaphor is so awesome.



Yeah, it is my competition cube. However, I have been trashing PB's with my ChiLong and ShengShou Aurora.. I guess I have three mains, but use CX3 in competition.


----------



## sneaklyfox (Jan 27, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> I had an awefull Ao100 today. Sup 25 (ARRGGGG!!!), But this one made my day:
> 
> With two step OLL since I am to lazy to learn this last one
> 
> ...



Very nice... hardly any pauses... love that reaction (chair squeak).

Oh yeah, and I will take a big mug of milk please.


----------



## mark49152 (Jan 27, 2014)

Wow you made that look easy like you weren't even trying to be fast


----------



## MarcelP (Jan 27, 2014)

sneaklyfox said:


> love that reaction (chair squeak).



It was not until I saw the video before I realized it did really happen.  LOL



mark49152 said:


> Wow you made that look easy like you weren't even trying to be fast



I have had a some comments from Facebook friends that I should try to turn faster. I can turn faster actually. All F2L cases are so very much settled in I can do each and every one sub 1.5 probably. However, that cost me my lookahead. So the whole Cross + F2L solve I try to do a max speed that gives me look ahead.  If I solve at as fast as possible my averages are over 25 secs.


----------



## kcl (Jan 27, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> It was not until I saw the video before I realized it did really happen.  LOL
> 
> 
> 
> I have had a some comments from Facebook friends that I should try to turn faster. I can turn faster actually. All F2L cases are so very much settled in I can do each and every one sub 1.5 probably. However, that cost me my lookahead. So the whole Cross + F2L solve I try to do a max speed that gives me look ahead.  If I solve at as fast as possible my averages are over 25 secs.



If you can turn faster, definitely do it. I can tell you now that turnspeed is holding you back. (On a separate Note, that's how you'll drop your 2x2 times immediately)


----------



## mark49152 (Jan 27, 2014)

And all over the rest of the forum "slow down and lookahead". Who to believe?


----------



## MarcelP (Jan 27, 2014)

mark49152 said:


> And all over the rest of the forum "slow down and lookahead". Who to believe?



Well Kennan has an official sub 9 single. He does know what he talks about  I will stick with slow tps for a while.


----------



## ThomasJE (Jan 27, 2014)

Try using faster turnspeed; lookahead should come with time. I don't even know full PLL and I can solve sub-20; mainly because I can average 3-4 TPS.


----------



## MarcelP (Jan 27, 2014)

ThomasJE said:


> Try using faster turnspeed; lookahead should come with time. I don't even know full PLL and I can solve sub-20; mainly because I can average 3-4 TPS.



Every time I have the urge to turn faster I watch this awesome video of *Sneaklyfox*

[video=youtube_share;Lzrlf2yNXtU]http://youtu.be/Lzrlf2yNXtU[/video]

Melody is awesome. When I can do that, then I will look into faster turning.. LOL


----------



## kcl (Jan 27, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> Every time I have the urge to turn faster I watch this awesome video of *Sneaklyfox*
> 
> [video=youtube_share;Lzrlf2yNXtU]http://youtu.be/Lzrlf2yNXtU[/video]
> 
> Melody is awesome. When I can do that, then I will look into faster turning.. LOL



Lol I have trouble doing that because my movecount is so crappy.


----------



## mark49152 (Jan 27, 2014)

kclejeune said:


> Lol I have trouble doing that because my movecount is so crappy.


Maybe that's because you turn too fast?


----------



## kcl (Jan 27, 2014)

mark49152 said:


> Maybe that's because you turn too fast?



Not at all. If I go slowly and think about my solution it's still 65-70 moves. I solve my cases the same way fast as I would slow. As always, I'm just going to let it fix itself with practice. I mean I'm not going to stop my TPS, reaching 8+ in solves is a gift apparently lol


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## mark49152 (Jan 27, 2014)

I'm just kidding. Anyway, I agree with Marcel. I turn as fast as I can in OLL/PLL and can manage 4-5 tps with my creaky old hands. My F2L averages half that, and the reason is pauses, not slowness. Once my brain can see the emerging solution at 4-5 tps my hands will be able to keep up just fine.


----------



## kcl (Jan 28, 2014)

mark49152 said:


> I'm just kidding. Anyway, I agree with Marcel. I turn as fast as I can in OLL/PLL and can manage 4-5 tps with my creaky old hands. My F2L averages half that, and the reason is pauses, not slowness. Once my brain can see the emerging solution at 4-5 tps my hands will be able to keep up just fine.



I suppose. I did basically the opposite of you lol. I said, "I'll turn as fast as I can and lookahead can come later". It worked


----------



## kcl (Jan 28, 2014)

mark49152 said:


> I'm just kidding. Anyway, I agree with Marcel. I turn as fast as I can in OLL/PLL and can manage 4-5 tps with my creaky old hands. My F2L averages half that, and the reason is pauses, not slowness. Once my brain can see the emerging solution at 4-5 tps my hands will be able to keep up just fine.



I suppose. I did basically the opposite of you lol. I said, "I'll turn as fast as I can and lookahead can come later". It worked


----------



## sneaklyfox (Jan 28, 2014)

kclejeune said:


> I suppose. I did basically the opposite of you lol. I said, "I'll turn as fast as I can and lookahead can come later". It worked



Maybe I should try that for awhile and see what happens.


----------



## kcl (Jan 28, 2014)

sneaklyfox said:


> Maybe I should try that for awhile and see what happens.



Never know 

I simply cannot "train" lookahead. It didn't work for me. It just magically showed up haha


----------



## sneaklyfox (Jan 28, 2014)

kclejeune said:


> Never know
> 
> I simply cannot "train" lookahead. It didn't work for me. It just magically showed up haha



Well, I've been kind of stuck in a rut for awhile. I'm improving ever so slowly. Slow like... a year ago I would only get one good sub-x solve if I was really lucky which is almost never. Then month after I would get maybe one for the month. Then maybe next month I would get a few... next month: one a week... next month: one every few days... then one a day... then a few a day... etc. Well, I will try going as fast as possible and see if my look ahead will catch up. I'll try this for a week or two and see what happens.

Ok... about 10 minutes in the new strategy:
- my hands are tired keeping up this pace (must be age factor in part)
- I don't think my look ahead is suffering as badly as I thought it would
- I fumble with the cube a lot more because I'm not used to the speed, but I'm sure I can get used to this after some practice
- my times are faster by about 2 seconds on average


----------



## mark49152 (Jan 28, 2014)

kclejeune said:


> I suppose. I did basically the opposite of you lol. I said, "I'll turn as fast as I can and lookahead can come later". It worked


It probably worked because you have fast hands and eyes and a natural aptitude for cubing, as shown by your PBs. I am basically the opposite of you lol . Just solving over and over does nothing for me at all, but I don't mind, because I enjoy systematic practice and feel rewarded by small but hard-won gains.


----------



## kcl (Jan 28, 2014)

mark49152 said:


> It probably worked because you have fast hands and eyes and a natural aptitude for cubing, as shown by your PBs. I am basically the opposite of you lol . Just solving over and over does nothing for me at all, but I don't mind, because I enjoy systematic practice and feel rewarded by small but hard-won gains.



I get that. My sister is like you  
I run out of patience when I try and focus on little things XD


----------



## Phillip1847 (Jan 29, 2014)

I saw that slow turning video, tried it, and broke my avg12 pb and got many sub 20 ao5s.
I think I will turn more slowly now.


----------



## pipkiksass (Jan 29, 2014)

mark49152 said:


> I enjoy systematic practice and feel rewarded by small but hard-won gains.



I enjoy systematic practice, I just don't have the gosh darn time for it! I normally cube for c.30 minutes on lunchbreaks at work, and barely at all at weekends. 

That said, I broke my PB Ao12 today by 0.01s, WOOHOO! How's about that for a small but hard-won gain? 

*updates sig*


----------



## sneaklyfox (Jan 29, 2014)

pipkiksass said:


> That said, I broke my PB Ao12 today by 0.01s, WOOHOO! How's about that for a small but hard-won gain?
> 
> *updates sig*



lol... I do that too. Actually, if you think about it, beating your PB by the smallest amount possible means you have more chances to break your PBs, right? 

Wow, I didn't realize you guys liked my slow turning video that much. Besides, I didn't think it was very good.


----------



## MarcelP (Jan 29, 2014)

sneaklyfox said:


> I didn't think it was very good.



What? Are you crazy.. it is awesome. It is my inspiration to turn slow and get the results I am getting now 

EDIT: Btw, Feliks has a video sub 10 slow solving on a Rubiks brand.. How is that for awesomeness?


----------



## MarcelP (Jan 29, 2014)

Okay, tried to film a few solves with turning as fast as possible. I was quite surprised by the result. However, I do not really like solving this way. I gives me a stress feeling. I make more mistakes like not AUF and performing the wrong PLL etc. Still, maybe I need to do this more often and get used to it. Kennan (kclejeune) might be on to something here 



Spoiler



1. 21.05 U' L2 U B2 F2 U R2 U' R2 D' F2 L D B2 F2 D2 F2 R' B L2 D'
2. 21.29 D' B2 L2 U L2 D' L2 U' R2 D' R' F R' B2 L B' D2 L D' R U'
3. 17.31 L2 U L2 D2 F2 R2 L2 U L2 D' F2 R' B2 D' F2 U2 F D' U2 R2 F' U'
4. 21.43 D F2 R2 B2 R2 D' B2 R2 D' B2 U' B' L' D2 U2 B2 U2 L' F U F
5. 20.96 D' F2 L2 U2 R2 D' R2 U' B2 U2 F2 R' U F U' L U B2 L' B U L'
6. 22.17 F2 R2 F2 U' L2 D B2 U2 L2 U' R2 F' L' F D B2 L' U2 F' R L
7. 20.24 D2 L2 U B2 U' R2 B2 U' L2 U2 F L D2 F U2 R' L2 U' B


[video=youtube_share;wxG3TX2b7v0]http://youtu.be/wxG3TX2b7v0[/video]


----------



## sneaklyfox (Jan 29, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> Okay, tried to film a few solves with turning as fast as possible. I was quite surprised by the result. However, I do not really like solving this way. I gives me a stress feeling. I make more mistakes like not AUF and performing the wrong PLL etc. Still, maybe I need to do this more often and get used to it. Kennan (kclejeune) might be on to something here



Well, if you think about it... if you have crazy fast tps and super fast recognition of F2L cases and LL cases, you don't need much look ahead at all to be fast. But most people can't find the pairs and do recognition instantly so you need look ahead to make up for that. And of course, there always comes a point where you just have to turn faster to get faster. Even Feliks can't get sub-15 if he turns at 3 tps. (I assume his average move count is above 50.)


----------



## kcl (Jan 29, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> Okay, tried to film a few solves with turning as fast as possible. I was quite surprised by the result. However, I do not really like solving this way. I gives me a stress feeling. I make more mistakes like not AUF and performing the wrong PLL etc. Still, maybe I need to do this more often and get used to it. Kennan (kclejeune) might be on to something here
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That's it . You just need to get slightly better recognition of pairs. 


sneaklyfox said:


> Well, if you think about it... if you have crazy fast tps and super fast recognition of F2L cases and LL cases, you don't need much look ahead at all to be fast. But most people can't find the pairs and do recognition instantly so you need look ahead to make up for that. And of course, there always comes a point where you just have to turn faster to get faster. Even Feliks can't get sub-15 if he turns at 3 tps. (I assume his average move count is above 50.)



This is basically what I do. I don't have any major pauses in my solving, although my LL recognition is a bit slow considering my average. I just recognize F2L cases really quickly and turn really fast. My major weakness is movecount, and I can't figure out how to fix it haha.


----------



## mark49152 (Jan 30, 2014)

New PLL attack PB - 50.75. Knocked almost 7 seconds off my PB. How? By switching to a Lingyun. I have to keep better control and a lighter touch or it explodes everywhere. For some reason that makes me faster.


----------



## kcl (Jan 30, 2014)

mark49152 said:


> New PLL attack PB - 50.75. Knocked almost 7 seconds off my PB. How? By switching to a Lingyun. I have to keep better control and a lighter touch or it explodes everywhere. For some reason that makes me faster.



I love my lingyun. It's awesome. 

PLL time attacks are fun but I get so tired


----------



## mark49152 (Jan 30, 2014)

Yeah I did 70 attacks yesterday, not counting the probably 100-200 that I abandoned due to pops or messed up algs. Today my hands ache. By the end of it, my bao12 was better than my single PB before though.


----------



## MarcelP (Jan 30, 2014)

mark49152 said:


> Yeah I did 70 attacks yesterday, not counting the probably 100-200 that I abandoned due to pops or messed up algs. Today my hands ache. By the end of it, my bao12 was better than my single PB before though.



I wish I could find the dedication to train PLL's. I envy your progress


----------



## mark49152 (Jan 30, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> I wish I could find the dedication to train PLL's. I envy your progress


Actually it's pretty mindless. I often drill PLLs while on mute on conference calls. It doesn't require much concentration or even looking at the cube. It's also great for testing cubes. A cube that feels good for PLL attacks is a winner (unless it explodes on 3/4 solves like my Lingyun).


----------



## MarcelP (Jan 30, 2014)

That's why I stopped using the LingYun  My other mains never pop.


----------



## mark49152 (Jan 30, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> That's why I stopped using the LingYun  My other mains never pop.


Yeah. After that session I stripped down my Zhanchi, CPM modded it, retensioned, relubed and restickered it, to see if I could make it feel more like my Lingyun. It worked pretty well. The CPM makes it much smoother and that plus the 10k diff oil relube has given it almost the same glassy glide that my Lingyun does - but fewer pops.


----------



## MarcelP (Jan 30, 2014)

I have done that to one of my Zhanchi's. It became so incredible fast and uncontrollable that I can not use it. It's worse than my fastest Weilong.


----------



## mark49152 (Jan 30, 2014)

Yeah it is pretty ridiculously fast. I might add some Maru just as an experiment


----------



## Schmidt (Feb 1, 2014)

Woohoo! Comp tomorrow. I haven't solved a cube all week except for a few OH while eating at work, so I might do some later today.


----------



## MarcelP (Feb 1, 2014)

Schmidt said:


> Woohoo! Comp tomorrow. I haven't solved a cube all week except for a few OH while eating at work, so I might do some later today.



LOL, so you did not prepare? I am curious what results you will get. It has been way to long since your first competition. I suspect a sub 20 Ao5 on the 3X3  Good luck.


----------



## Schmidt (Feb 1, 2014)

Guess again: my entry for the weekly:


3x3x3 23.34, 32.88, 31.06, 22.13, 24.34 :26.25 

I will probably practice a little tonight


Spoiler



I got so much ***** on my mind! Refuse to loose! Here's your ticket.....


Lately I've been doing nothing but playing hayday and solving chess problems on my iPad


----------



## mark49152 (Feb 2, 2014)

More new 3x3 PBs - 26.16 ao50, 24.90 ao12. Dropped 2.5s from ao50 in a month which is the most rapid burst of progress since I started cubing.


----------



## MarcelP (Feb 2, 2014)

mark49152 said:


> More new 3x3 PBs - 26.16 ao50, 24.90 ao12. Dropped 2.5s from ao50 in a month which is the most rapid burst of progress since I started cubing.



Ohh nice! That is good stuff.

I had a competition today. I broke some PB's 

http://cubecomps.com/live.php?cid=381&compid=34

Most amazing was 4X4 single. 9 seconds faster than my 'home' PB. 3X3 sucked to big time. I had major case of competition hands again. Meaning no control over my hands


----------



## mark49152 (Feb 2, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> I had a competition today. I broke some PB's
> 
> http://cubecomps.com/live.php?cid=381&compid=34
> 
> Most amazing was 4X4 single. 9 seconds faster than my 'home' PB. 3X3 sucked to big time. I had major case of competition hands again. Meaning no control over my hands



Nice one Marcel!


----------



## MarcelP (Feb 2, 2014)

mark49152 said:


> Nice one Marcel!



Yeah, 1:36 official 4x4 single. Still do not know how I pulled that off 

edit: I just saw Schmidts results. He had a 21 average on the 3x3 in the second round beating my official 3x3 average. I am glad I have faster 4x4 single


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## Schmidt (Feb 2, 2014)

I'm glad you noticed 
http://cubecomps.com/live.php?cid=383&compid=27


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## MarcelP (Feb 2, 2014)

Schmidt said:


> I'm glad you noticed
> http://cubecomps.com/live.php?cid=383&compid=27



Awesome results. beating all single PB's and all averages in one competition LOL..


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## Schmidt (Feb 2, 2014)

I have done that in every competition I have been to


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## sneaklyfox (Feb 3, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> Most amazing was 4X4 single. 9 seconds faster than my 'home' PB. 3X3 sucked to big time. I had major case of competition hands again. Meaning no control over my hands



Way to go, Marcel! 4x4x - 1:36 in comp! Guess what... you are officially faster than me.


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## MarcelP (Feb 3, 2014)

sneaklyfox said:


> Way to go, Marcel! 4x4x - 1:36 in comp! Guess what... you are officially faster than me.



No way.. I am officially faster then Schmidt and Sneaklyfox? LOL That one solve was without nerves getting to me. All other 4X4 solves where my hands so shaky that it added at least 20 seconds on my average. I really need to work on getting me nerves under control  (or just stop going to comps and enjoy my fast times at home LOL!)


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## ThomasJE (Feb 3, 2014)

One thing that may help with your nerves is cubing in public. On the bus, at the pub etc. The more you solve in public, the more you get used to it. I've had so many people ask me to solve it while in public that I never get nervous when doing it.

Although it may be a different matter in comps


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## Preetham Meruva (Feb 3, 2014)

Pratice and Practice.I used to solve in 3 minutes when I started cubing but now i am solving it in 20 - 30 seconds.I think you should learn f2l properly then oll and pll. Badmephisto f2l videos are good.You can try paradox cubing also. You first learn beginners 7 oll algorithms and 21 pll algorithms.And do atleast 60 to 100 solves a day.Keep timer to see your progression.


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## ThomasJE (Feb 3, 2014)

Preetham Meruva said:


> Pratice and Practice.I used to solve in 3 minutes when I started cubing but now i am solving it in 20 - 30 seconds.I think you should learn f2l properly then oll and pll. Badmephisto f2l videos are good.You can try paradox cubing also. You first learn beginners 7 oll algorithms and 21 pll algorithms.And do atleast 60 to 100 solves a day.Keep timer to see your progression.



Marcel has been doing that for ages and now averages 20-30 seconds.


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## Schmidt (Feb 3, 2014)

DYK: Marcel travels three hours by train everyday to get to work?
and that is considered public? 
And that he solves cubes while train riding?
and that despite all this public solving, he still gets nervous while solving at competitions?

Disclaimer: All of this was true when the thread started, don't know if it is up to date


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## MarcelP (Feb 3, 2014)

Schmidt said:


> DYK: Marcel travels three hours by train everyday to get to work?
> and that is considered public?
> And that he solves cubes while train riding?
> and that despite all this public solving, he still gets nervous while solving at competitions?
> ...



LOL, I used to do that every day indeed. I stopped about 6 months ago. I am mostly a sleep in the train  I have no problem solving in public, only when I am on the spot at the competition. I was getting many sub 20s racing just before I entered the 3x3. Funny thing is that I am not a shy or nervous person.


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## mark49152 (Feb 4, 2014)

mark49152 said:


> More new 3x3 PBs - 26.16 ao50, 24.90 ao12. Dropped 2.5s from ao50 in a month which is the most rapid burst of progress since I started cubing.


25.96 ao50. Maybe it's something I've been eating.


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## sneaklyfox (Feb 4, 2014)

Maybe because during comp whatever happens will mean a permanent record attached to your name. No pressure.


----------



## kunparekh18 (Feb 4, 2014)

A good way to overcome nerves officially is to not care about what you'll get.


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## kcl (Feb 4, 2014)

kunparekh18 said:


> A good way to overcome nerves officially is to not care about what you'll get.



+1. As soon as I realized that I'm not going to be winning any comps, nerves vanished.


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## sneaklyfox (Feb 4, 2014)

Unfortunately, even though I don't expect to win comps, I expect to better myself. I've only been to one comp so I did fairly well as I was just happy enough to be "official". But next comp I have to do better than last comp.


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## MarcelP (Feb 4, 2014)

mark49152 said:


> 25.96 ao50. Maybe it's something I've been eating.


Wow Mark.. In a few weeks (maybe days) you are at the same speed I am. Keep it up. You are doing something right alright. 


kunparekh18 said:


> A good way to overcome nerves officially is to not care about what you'll get.


Yeah, I have seen the video. It's much harder than you think not to care. 


kclejeune said:


> +1. As soon as I realized that I'm not going to be winning any comps, nerves vanished.


Come on man, you are podium material. I am pretty sure you will be up there with the fastest of the world if you continue seriously. 


sneaklyfox said:


> Unfortunately, even though I don't expect to win comps, I expect to better myself. I've only been to one comp so I did fairly well as I was just happy enough to be "official". But next comp I have to do better than last comp.



Didn't you get podium for Pyraminx on your first try  You have what it takes. You can win stuff


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## Schmidt (Feb 4, 2014)

I got third in clock in my first comp (few competitors, many DNF's) check my wca (so many orange numbers  )


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## MarcelP (Feb 4, 2014)

Schmidt said:


> I got third in clock in my first comp (few competitors, many DNF's) check my wca (so many orange numbers  )



Yeah lot's of orange there  I also noticed that in two years time (difference between first and second competition) you did not get much better results. Only few seconds in everything.  

Just pulling your leg of course..


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## kunparekh18 (Feb 5, 2014)

I don't even know what video you're talking about 

It isn't really hard at all, just try. Another good thing is to try and make the competition area feel a lot like your home cubing environment. Like you could have a bottle of water or your mobile or a few other cubes on the table next to the mat while doing official solves. It helps, I've tried.

Also, while warming up before doing your solves, you could warm up on the competition table with the mat and all (if the people there let you).

There are many other ways as well.


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## MarcelP (Feb 5, 2014)

kunparekh18 said:


> I don't even know what video you're talking about



This one:

[video=youtube_share;iOU8YnLmVyA]http://youtu.be/iOU8YnLmVyA[/video]


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## mark49152 (Feb 17, 2014)

More PBs crushed today. Ao100 = 24.95; Ao50 = 24.35; Ao12 = 23.34; Ao5 = 21.48; Single = 17.22 (double sune, Z-perm).


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## MarcelP (Feb 17, 2014)

mark49152 said:


> More PBs crushed today. Ao100 = 24.95; Ao50 = 24.35; Ao12 = 23.34; Ao5 = 21.48; Single = 17.22 (double sune, Z-perm).



Oh crap... You have past me.  The whole fast TPS training thing has set me back a few secs. I was truely averaging 23 secs with one Ao100 sub 23. Today I am happy with a sub 26 Ao100. I need go go back to slow tps training. Congrats Mark. That is really awesome!


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## mark49152 (Feb 17, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> Oh crap... You have past me.  The whole fast TPS training thing has set me back a few secs. I was truely averaging 23 secs with one Ao100 sub 23. Today I am happy with a sub 26 Ao100. I need go go back to slow tps training. Congrats Mark. That is really awesome!


Thanks. You'll get that back easily enough. BTW, I don't buy the fast TPS training thing, it goes against all the other advice out there. 

I'm surprised at my recent progress but I think it's down to lookahead practice. I've done loads of it over the last 3 months, and over the last month have been really trying to focus on that in my full solves, not just during F2L but for transitions too. Result is over 4 seconds dropped from Ao50 in the last month, which is more than I dropped in the 6 months before that. Lookahead ftw!


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## Phillip1847 (Feb 17, 2014)

Personally, I find solving the best way to practice for whatever reason.
Just wondering, what are your guys' standard deviation? I have a friend a bit slower and his worst time in a big average was 23.82, while mine tends to be around 30.
My standard dev is around 2.7. I feel really inconsistent.


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## mark49152 (Feb 17, 2014)

Stdev of my ao100 today was 3.14 or 12.6% of mean. 40 solves were sub-24, 66 sub-26, and 7 sup-30.


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## kcl (Feb 17, 2014)

mark49152 said:


> Thanks. You'll get that back easily enough. BTW, I don't buy the fast TPS training thing, it goes against all the other advice out there.
> 
> I'm surprised at my recent progress but I think it's down to lookahead practice. I've done loads of it over the last 3 months, and over the last month have been really trying to focus on that in my full solves, not just during F2L but for transitions too. Result is over 4 seconds dropped from Ao50 in the last month, which is more than I dropped in the 6 months before that. Lookahead ftw!



I never said it would work for everybody. It happened to work for me.


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## mark49152 (Feb 17, 2014)

kclejeune said:


> I never said it would work for everybody. It happened to work for me.


Yeah fair enough, I never said it wouldn't work for anyone else. It's just not for me, at least not at the moment.


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## MarcelP (Feb 19, 2014)

Slowly getting my Mojo back.. a slow solved Ao5 sub 20 



Spoiler



22. 20.07 U' L2 U F2 U2 B2 D B2 F2 U F2 R' F' U' R2 L2 U2 R' F D2 U'
23. 17.58 U R2 F2 R2 D' F2 U B2 U' R2 D2 R B D2 L2 D2 R U2 B R' D
24. 18.94 U' B2 L2 F2 U' R2 D2 B2 R2 L2 U2 B' U' R B2 U' F R' U' R2 L U
25. 20.88 D B2 D' F2 R2 B2 D' R2 U' R2 D' B D2 L' D2 L D' U' F R2 L' U2
26. lost my cool...


[video=youtube_share;naPCRziEaTU]http://youtu.be/naPCRziEaTU[/video]


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## mark49152 (Feb 19, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> Slowly getting my Mojo back.. a slow solved Ao5 sub 20
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Nice one Marcel... What happened to 26?


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## sneaklyfox (Feb 19, 2014)

First of all... whaaaat is that music? Second, nice solves and I especially liked the light chuckles at the end of the sub-20s. I'm wondering what alg you use for that G-perm that came up twice?

Re: TPS spamming... my problem is too much casual solving which is why I've been kinda stuck at 16 for about a year now. I'm getting faster times more often now but in the end I'm still about where I was. Speaking of being stuck, I finally FINALLY broke my Ao5 PB yesterday by 0.05. It wasn't much, but I haven't broken any PBs for months so it was still something.


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## TDM (Feb 19, 2014)

sneaklyfox said:


> I'm wondering what alg you use for that G-perm that came up twice?


One of these. I can't tell which one from her diagrams though.


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## sneaklyfox (Feb 19, 2014)

This one?
R L U2 R' L' (y') R' U L' U2 R U' L


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## MarcelP (Feb 19, 2014)

mark49152 said:


> Nice one Marcel... What happened to 26?



I lost my cool. Had a 32 something.. 



sneaklyfox said:


> First of all... whaaaat is that music? Second, nice solves and I especially liked the light chuckles at the end of the sub-20s. I'm wondering what alg you use for that G-perm that came up twice?
> 
> Re: TPS spamming... my problem is too much casual solving which is why I've been kinda stuck at 16 for about a year now. I'm getting faster times more often now but in the end I'm still about where I was. Speaking of being stuck, I finally FINALLY broke my Ao5 PB yesterday by 0.05. It wasn't much, but I haven't broken any PBs for months so it was still something.



The music is Stromae. French.. I just love French music. (Big fan of Lara Fabian, Garoux etc). 

The G-perm is with headlights on the left and bar on the right:

R U R' (y') R2 u' R U' R' U R' u R2 (http://alg.cubing.net/?puzzle=3x3x3&stage=PLL&type=alg&view=playback&alg=%28y2%29%20R%20U%20R%27%20%28y%27%29%20R2%20u%27%20R%20U%27%20R%27%20U%20R%27%20u%20R2)

I would not mind being stuck at 16 secs..  I highly doubt I will ever get there.. I think you will break that barrier soon.


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## mark49152 (Feb 19, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> I lost my cool. Had a 32 something..



Well you made those fast ones look easy. I was watching thinking, is that it? Where were all the turns? So cool. For me a 20 second solve feels like a frantic blur.


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## MarcelP (Feb 19, 2014)

mark49152 said:


> Well you made those fast ones look easy. I was watching thinking, is that it? Where were all the turns? So cool. For me a 20 second solve feels like a frantic blur.



LOL.. Frantic blur.. I know what you mean. But really.. like your progress of the last few weeks is only because of better look ahead. if you know constantly what to do in a solve and have good cases for F2L ( I mean you know the good solution to hard cases) than slow turning is no problem getting sub 20 times. If only I could do that constantly 

EDIT: My black Weilong V2 came today. It's awesome.. Did 50 solves and it is so smooth and controllable.


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## pipkiksass (Feb 19, 2014)

I completely agree - my lookahead is finally starting to work for me, and suddenly what used to be a blur becomes clearer. I'd had 13/14 second solves before, but they were all either bordering on losing control and being 30s, or very lucky. In the last week or so, I've had more sub 16/15/14s than ever, but the solves haven't FELT fast. Sure, I still have to nail OLL/PLL to get 17 or lower, but more often than not when I stop the timer and it says 16.xx I'm surprised!

Might be because I've recently also turned timer updating off! ;-)


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## MarcelP (Feb 19, 2014)

pipkiksass said:


> Might be because I've recently also turned timer updating off! ;-)



I never look at the timer.  Sometimes I notice at the end of the solve that I forgot to start the timer. Lol


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## pipkiksass (Feb 19, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> I never look at the timer.  Sometimes I notice at the end of the solve that I forgot to start the timer. Lol



I had that yesterday - 2 move cross and preserved f2l pair in top layer... Then noticed I hadn't started the timer. Would've been 14-16 I think!


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## mark49152 (Feb 19, 2014)

Definitely it's lookahead that's helped me recently. I have timer updates switched off and actually it's quite predictable which will be the good or bad solves. It's all down to pauses, even if TPS feels no different. Sometimes I will pause in F2L then try to speed up to compensate, and maybe lose lookahead and pause again. That will come in 27-28 or worse. When F2L is fluid, I know that I'll come in 21-22 as long as I don't screw up the LL. The pauses don't seem to last anywhere near 2-3 seconds at the time, but that's the kind of difference they seem to make. I should video a few solves to see.

Edit: sometimes the pauses are during cross


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## Schmidt (Feb 19, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> The music is Stromae. Belgian.



FTFY, but he sings in French.


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## sneaklyfox (Feb 19, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> The G-perm is with headlights on the left and bar on the right:
> 
> R U R' (y') R2 u' R U' R' U R' u R2 (http://alg.cubing.net/?puzzle=3x3x3&stage=PLL&type=alg&view=playback&alg=%28y2%29%20R%20U%20R%27%20%28y%27%29%20R2%20u%27%20R%20U%27%20R%27%20U%20R%27%20u%20R2)
> 
> I would not mind being stuck at 16 secs..  I highly doubt I will ever get there.. I think you will break that barrier soon.



I thought that was headlights on the front and bar on the right (or headlights on left and bar in front)?

I don't know... I think I'd rather be at 20 seconds but still progressing. I don't like to stagnate. Fortunately, cubing still provides enjoyment aside from progression. At least I still have those "I think I'm improving" moments.


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## MarcelP (Feb 19, 2014)

Schmidt said:


> FTFY, but he sings in French.



Yeah, I know.. I didn't think it was relevant  Is Stromae also known in Denmark?



sneaklyfox said:


> I thought that was headlights on the front and bar on the right (or headlights on left and bar in front)?



I use R L U2 R' L' (y') R' U L' U2 R U' L for that one. Awefull alg.. (headlights front, bar on right)


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## AmazingCuber (Feb 19, 2014)

Nice average Marcel, congrats!


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## sneaklyfox (Feb 19, 2014)

Oooh ooh, just have to share this (one of those "I think I'm improving" moments)...


Spoiler



New PB Ao5 again!
12.99, 11.83, 12.38, 12.55, 16.86 = *12.64*


----------



## kcl (Feb 19, 2014)

sneaklyfox said:


> Oooh ooh, just have to share this (one of those "I think I'm improving" moments)...
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> ...



Yay!


----------



## mark49152 (Feb 19, 2014)

sneaklyfox said:


> Oooh ooh, just have to share this (one of those "I think I'm improving" moments)...
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> ...


Nice one - what was your PB before? Were you spamming TPS?


----------



## sneaklyfox (Feb 20, 2014)

mark49152 said:


> Nice one - what was your PB before? Were you spamming TPS?



A few months ago I was sitting at Ao5 13.40. Then a day or two ago I managed a 13.35 and today broke again with the 12.64 which made me really happy. I had a couple good solves a few solves before that average too (another 11.x and a 12.x). I was half spamming TPS. So I guess it can't really be called "spamming", but I definitely was turning faster than before while at the same time maintaining the look ahead. Now if only I could do that consistently! Ok, so I'm not really stagnant and I am better than a year ago, but I can't even call my progression crawling pace. More like... erm... what do you call slower than crawling?


----------



## mark49152 (Feb 20, 2014)

Well that's a significant improvement, 0.76 seconds, so you came off your plateau in style. Have you noticed any improvement in ao50 or ao100 from turning faster?


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## sneaklyfox (Feb 20, 2014)

mark49152 said:


> Well that's a significant improvement, 0.76 seconds, so you came off your plateau in style. Have you noticed any improvement in ao50 or ao100 from turning faster?



Could be that I was just in the zone when I nailed that 12.64. I really don't know how though because these days I am feeling really tired. (See sig: IAST = I Am So Tired)

I'm beginning to believe that I do need to turn faster and that kinda started from kclejeune's suggestion about spamming TPS. Maybe I was at the point where I was turning comfortably fast and my look ahead at that speed was ok that I had to just turn faster so my brain would be challenged to track pieces faster and look ahead faster and all that. When I turned at my previous comfortable speed my brain simply wasn't challenged to work any harder. Don't know if you should try this if you don't have sufficient look ahead because you could also end up reinforcing a bad habit of not looking ahead at all because it's too big a jump for your brain to handle. Well, I could be all wrong here... I'm just theorizing.

Oh, about Ao50 of and Ao100... I don't do a whole lot of solves in one sitting anymore so I hardly look at those numbers. Also, I usually reset on a new day (or after I have added the number of new solves to my running count). Today I've only had 64 timed solves so far and sitting with a 15.12 Ao50. I *think* that's better than before but I'm not sure.


----------



## mark49152 (Feb 20, 2014)

Yes I agree. At the end of the day, you have to either turn faster or eliminate pauses to reduce times (or reduce move count, but that's a different topic). If your lookahead is good enough that you don't have any pauses, it makes sense to challenge it by pushing TPS. Mine isn't good enough and I know that pauses kill my times, so I want to get my lookahead sorted and pauses mostly eliminated before pushing TPS. I also don't agree that lookahead "just comes", at least, not for me. I had to work pretty hard at it to get anywhere at all, so I don't want to undo that progress.


----------



## kcl (Feb 20, 2014)

I wish I could reduce movecount..
 7tps with 70 move solves is depressing.


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## sneaklyfox (Feb 20, 2014)

kclejeune said:


> I wish I could reduce movecount..
> 7tps with 70 move solves is depressing.



Try some slow solve practice. This is probably going to be hard for you.  Keep movecount/efficiency in mind when thinking of your next moves.


----------



## kcl (Feb 20, 2014)

sneaklyfox said:


> Try some slow solve practice. This is probably going to be hard for you.  Keep movecount/efficiency in mind when thinking of your next moves.



That's the problem, with slow solving I solve the same way I do turning fast :/ 

I solve cases in common ways yet my movecount is pretty high. I don't understand it


----------



## sneaklyfox (Feb 20, 2014)

kclejeune said:


> That's the problem, with slow solving I solve the same way I do turning fast :/
> 
> I solve cases in common ways yet my movecount is pretty high. I don't understand it



Well, you can keep turning faster and faster, but that can only take you so far. I think if you want to get faster in the long run you have to start breaking bad habits now.

Are you sure you have that high of a movecount? Do you count M-slice moves as two moves or one? Do you count double flick as two or one? How about if you do stuff like U' U' (not double flick?) Or do you count rotations?


----------



## kcl (Feb 20, 2014)

*Hi, Marcel from Holland here*



sneaklyfox said:


> Well, you can keep turning faster and faster, but that can only take you so far. I think if you want to get faster in the long run you have to start breaking bad habits now.
> 
> Are you sure you have that high of a movecount? Do you count M-slice moves as two moves or one? Do you count double flick as two or one? How about if you do stuff like U' U' (not double flick?) Or do you count rotations?



I usually count ETM. M is one, y is one, etc. I feel it's the best way to find TPS. However even counting with STM I still get into the 70's a lot. I have issues doing U2'.. I can only do it in PLL's for some reason. I feel like I can improve efficiency more with just time, like everything else :/ but it's a bit annoying


----------



## MarcelP (Feb 20, 2014)

kclejeune said:


> I solve cases in common ways yet my movecount is pretty high. I don't understand it



I had the same problem. I fixed it  I trained the expert F2L cases from Viktor every day for a few minutes.  You can do that too I am sure.


----------



## MarcelP (Feb 20, 2014)

mark49152 said:


> I also don't agree that lookahead "just comes", at least, not for me. I had to work pretty hard at it to get anywhere at all



Mine started to kick in when I switched to Color Neutral. Solving CN without look ahead is harder if you can not turn fast (like me) because you waiste 70% time by frantic searching. When I started to learn CN I slowed down a lot looking ahead. Have you tried CN btw Mark?



sneaklyfox said:


> Oooh ooh, just have to share this (one of those "I think I'm improving" moments)...
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> ...



Whoohoo!! Any progress is progress 




sneaklyfox said:


> Ok, so I'm not really stagnant and I am better than a year ago, but I can't even call my progression crawling pace. More like... erm... what do you call slower than crawling?



Ok, but at a certain speed progress is just much harder. I think at your speed you need to get a few things down:
-Cross + 1 in every solve planned out
-Learn all OLL's from every angle
-Predict AUF while doing the PLL.

 So, that is some homework for you there..


----------



## mark49152 (Feb 20, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> Mine started to kick in when I switched to Color Neutral. Solving CN without look ahead is harder if you can not turn fast (like me) because you waiste 70% time by frantic searching. When I started to learn CN I slowed down a lot looking ahead. Have you tried CN btw Mark?


I tried it briefly but decided that for me, the benefit of solving to a consistent colour orientation outweighed the slightly easier cross, so I don't intend to become a CN solver. If it works as a lookahead training technique then I'd use it , but I don't really understand why it would. If you have a habit of watching the pieces being solved, why would CN help you break that?


----------



## mark49152 (Feb 20, 2014)

Double post, sorry. Trying out Tapatalk and didn't see how to multi-quote before.



kclejeune said:


> I wish I could reduce movecount..
> 7tps with 70 move solves is depressing.


As Marcel suggested, I recommend studying more efficient F2L and cross cases. Do you know where you are wasting moves? Your cross should average ~6 and each F2L pair ~7.5. Can you post your averages here? 

The shortest solutions aren't necessarily the fastest of course, but there is so much to learn about F2L, much of which doesn't just come intuitively. Viktor's algs are great but I use them just as a study aid to see what they do, rather than learning them alg-style.



sneaklyfox said:


> Oh, about Ao50 of and Ao100... I don't do a whole lot of solves in one sitting anymore so I hardly look at those numbers. Also, I usually reset on a new day (or after I have added the number of new solves to my running count). Today I've only had 64 timed solves so far and sitting with a 15.12 Ao50. I *think* that's better than before but I'm not sure.


IMHO, ao50 or more is a much better indicator of progress, even if you roll solves over day to day. Obviously it evens out the good and bad luck better, but more importantly it gives a more stable number, so you see improvements more often. Breaking an ao50 by a fraction of a second should be a regular occurrence, whereas an ao5 PB is usually the result of a lucky sequence of scrambles coinciding with being in the zone, and you can wait ages for that lucky coincidence to come around again.


----------



## MarcelP (Feb 20, 2014)

mark49152 said:


> If you have a habit of watching the pieces being solved, why would CN help you break that?



When I was not CN I knew all the colors that where needed in the solve for building F2L. Doing white cross means, you can find a white corner and look for the matching edge. But that was not how I solved,* I also ignored the yellow edges *which makes you find the other edges faster. That way you do not have to start a pair with a corner (like most people do). When you switch to CN, there is no way of telling what color to ignore. Well, at least not when you just starting out. So you really must apply the technique of taking a corner first, and then find the matching edge. And by starting this technique (also on white cross) I managed to start my look ahead working for me. I know all F2L cases blind so I can look for the next corner. Also, finding easy crosses mean, more easy transition to F2L (by looking ahead in doing cross). Most of my crosse + 1 are sub 5 secs these days.


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## mark49152 (Feb 20, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> When you switch to CN, there is no way of telling what color to ignore. Well, at least not when you just starting out. So you really must apply the technique of taking a corner first, and then find the matching edge.


OK, that makes sense. You're kind of giving your brain a tougher job to do so that the routine job seems easier . Maybe I will give that a go. It still depends on being able to do your cases blind though, which is really the fundamental key to lookahead.

Right now I am focused on blind cross practice using the same techniques I do for F2L. So, while solving the cross blind, I try to mentally track both pieces of a CE pair. It's haaaard.


----------



## sneaklyfox (Feb 20, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> Ok, but at a certain speed progress is just much harder. I think at your speed you need to get a few things down:
> -Cross + 1 in every solve planned out
> -Learn all OLL's from every angle
> -Predict AUF while doing the PLL.
> ...



You're right.

And yeah, I don't plan cross+1 most of the time at all. Only rarely when I have like a 2 or 3 move cross I would try to predict where a corner would end up and sometimes the edge that goes with it. I don't do Xcross. If it happens it's by fluke. Mostly I just scan the cube while doing cross.

OLLs I probably could look some up for more angles/algs... there are a couple that I hate but OLLs are probably not going to make as much difference as cross+1.

I already predict AUF while doing PLL so that's done.

Thanks, Marcel. It really gives you a kick in the butt when someone slower than you has to tell you what to do to get faster. This is giving me an idea though. How about we (everyone here who follows this thread and wants to join) keep each other accountable about focused practice? Commit to improving something and maybe post updates and things here... we can all help each other along to meeting our next goal? Marcel has been really awesome with dedicated focused practice which is a big part of why he's come so far since sub-1-goal days and why I subscribed to this thread (besides the comradery we have here). I need to be more like him.

So anyway... I'm going to start cross+1 practice today.


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## AmazingCuber (Feb 20, 2014)

@ sneaklyfox 
I'm at about the same speed as you. I think I should really start practicing cross+1 and in general I need to do targeted practice. Great tips Marcel!


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## kcl (Feb 20, 2014)

*Hi, Marcel from Holland here*

I'm going to do a cross+1 average for fun. I'll update this with results later.


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## mark49152 (Feb 20, 2014)

sneaklyfox said:


> How about we (everyone here who follows this thread and wants to join) keep each other accountable about focused practice? Commit to improving something and maybe post updates and things here... we can all help each other along to meeting our next goal?
> 
> So anyway... I'm going to start cross+1 practice today.



Great idea, I'm in, and will start with cross+1 too. See a couple of posts above for my practice plan. My cross ao50 is 3.3 and cross+1 is 7.0 so I reckon a good first target would be 3.0 and 6.0 respectively.


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## UB (Feb 20, 2014)

I am just 32 sec avg. Any help here ?


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## Schmidt (Feb 20, 2014)

Start on page 1. If you still have questions when you get to this page again, feel free to ask. Good luck and see you in a week


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## MarcelP (Feb 20, 2014)

sneaklyfox said:


> You're right.
> 
> And yeah, I don't plan cross+1 most of the time at all. Only rarely when I have like a 2 or 3 move cross I would try to predict where a corner would end up and sometimes the edge that goes with it. I don't do Xcross. If it happens it's by fluke. Mostly I just scan the cube while doing cross.
> 
> ...



Cool  I think I will start with that also. I am pretty OK on crosses now (after almost two years LOL). Cross+1 is hard though. But Feliks said in one of his video's he is always looking out for his first pair during inspection. I guess you need to do that to get two sub 6 solves in one competition


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## cubizh (Feb 20, 2014)

Have you abandoned color neutrality? I've seen more than 90% of your recent video solves using white cross, was curious to see if you (consciously or not) abandoned trying to follow other cross possibilities or you are just faster using just white or is it just a coincidence.


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## sneaklyfox (Feb 20, 2014)

Here's my base:
Cross Ao50 = 1.73
Cross+1 Ao50 = 3.99

The cross+1 is without planning the first pair for the most part which is what I do normally. Sometimes it was fairly smooth and fine but sometimes I had a big pause especially when there was no corner easily visible and/or edge was stuck in the back where I couldn't see it.

I also tried some (about 10) full solves with planning the whole cross+1. Sometimes I had to stare at the cube a long time to find a corner that would actually appear in the U layer after cross and some crosses were harder for tracking the first pair because of too many faces moving. So I failed about half the time. The other half of the time I got better than average results. On two of the successes I got 12.x times which is fairly good for me and I was pleased that they felt easy to get. I'm taking as long as I need during inspection.


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## kcl (Feb 20, 2014)

I'm back, best cross+1 ao12 was 2.39. Best ao5 was 1.88.


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## mark49152 (Feb 21, 2014)

_Welcome to _
* ~~ Marcel's Bar ~~*
*Winter Festival of Cross+1*
_"Get in here and grab a beer!"_​
A celebration of the joy of cross - open to all. No rules, except your own. Fun is mandatory 


*Jolly punter**Starting point**Goal**PB progress*Marcel??Melodyao50 = 3.99?Kennanao12 = 2.39, ao5 = 1.88?Markao50 = 7.03ao50 < 6 by 31 March


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## kcl (Feb 21, 2014)

mark49152 said:


> _Welcome to _
> * ~~ Marcel's Bar ~~*
> *Winter Festival of Cross+1*
> _"Get in here and grab a beer!"_​
> ...



Goal: sub 2 ao12?


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## mark49152 (Feb 21, 2014)

Well that's a crappy start - 7.86 ao50. I nearly gave up about 15 solves in when I got a 15.98.


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## sneaklyfox (Feb 21, 2014)

mark49152 said:


> _Welcome to _
> * ~~ Marcel's Bar ~~*
> *Winter Festival of Cross+1*
> _"Get in here and grab a beer!"_​
> ...



Haha, awesome. Hmm... maybe I'll start with a goal of sub-3.5 Ao50 and see what happens from there.


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## MarcelP (Feb 21, 2014)

cubizh said:


> Have you abandoned color neutrality? I've seen more than 90% of your recent video solves using white cross, was curious to see if you (consciously or not) abandoned trying to follow other cross possibilities or you are just faster using just white or is it just a coincidence.



No, I have changed technique. I train CN without using white cross at all. But when I do timed solves I automatically do x2. Then I scan for white edges. If one or more is correctly oriented then I continue white cross. If not I do quick scan around the cube for different cross. My competition PB's are all on none white crosses  I sometimes do Ao5 on all crosses. There is no real difference in my times. But starting out with a fixed color really helps my confidence. anyway.. this technique is really working for me


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## MarcelP (Feb 21, 2014)

mark49152 said:


> Well that's a crappy start - 7.86 ao50. I nearly gave up about 15 solves in when I got a 15.98.



LOL. great idea Mark. Will put up results later today.


----------



## moralsh (Feb 21, 2014)

Sounds like fun, Can I join?

I've tried 3 times at work and decided to try it at home later today after the crappy results

13.42 I think I left the F2L pairs at home, couldn't find any, also very crappy cross
6.54 Seems ok for me, even nice
11.03 awww, crap

I've also never done a cross average, might do it latter also.


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## MarcelP (Feb 21, 2014)

moralsh said:


> Sounds like fun, Can I join?



Hey Raoul, long time no see.  How are you doing? Still BLD as your main event?




Ok, I am worse than I thought.. but I allready improved during the Ao50.. Wow.. After the first 20 solves my times became more stable.


Start pointGoalAo50 6.84 Ao50 sub 5 by summer




Spoiler



Mean: 6.84
Average: 6.83
Best time: 3.84
Median: 6.60
Worst time: 10.22
Standard deviation: 1.44

Best average of 5: 5.96
24-28 - 4.81 6.76 6.30 (7.35) (3.84)

Best average of 12: 6.41
18-29 - 5.60 5.86 7.48 6.36 7.40 (9.13) 4.81 6.76 6.30 7.35 (3.84) 6.20


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## mark49152 (Feb 21, 2014)

_Welcome to _
* ~~ Marcel's Bar ~~*
*Winter Festival of Cross+1*
_"Get in here and grab a beer!"_​
A celebration of the joy of cross - open to all. No rules, except your own. Fun is mandatory 


*Jolly punter**Starting point**Goal**PB progress*MarcelAo50 = 6.84Ao50 < 5 by summerMelodyao50 = 3.99ao50 < 3.5Kennanao12 = 2.39, ao5 = 1.88ao12 < 2Markao50 = 7.03ao50 < 6 by 31 MarchDay #1 fail 7.86, too much to drinkRaoul??


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## ThomasJE (Feb 21, 2014)

This event is discriminatory towards ZZ solvers.

Just kidding; I'll do an EOL+1 average instead if I get time.


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## mark49152 (Feb 21, 2014)

ThomasJE said:


> This event is discriminatory towards ZZ solvers.
> 
> Just kidding; I'll do an EOL+1 average instead if I get time.


You can do whatever you want. Event is open to anyone who wants to set a personal goal for focused substep practice, and participate in mutual encouragement in the atmosphere and spirit of Marcel's Bar. First to meet their target buys the drinks!


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## moralsh (Feb 21, 2014)

Just did a few solves to have starting point:

number of times: 19/19
best time: 4.74
worst time: 9.85

current avg5: 6.43 (σ = 0.71)
best avg5: 6.43 (σ = 0.71)

current avg12: 7.15 (σ = 1.04)
best avg12: 7.06 (σ = 0.99)

session avg: 6.91 (σ = 1.05)
session mean: 6.95

5.86, 6.40, 6.66, 8.65, 6.97, 5.98, 5.45, 8.80, 6.90, 7.24, 7.18, (9.85), 8.63, (4.74), 6.23, 7.71, 7.22, 5.84, 5.78

Marcel, I practice almost Equally 3BLD and 3x3x3, but I don't time myself as often as I'd like to, I have a comp in 1 month in which I intend to do 2x2x2, 3x3x3, 4x4x4, 5x5x5, Pyra, FM, 3BLD, OH and MBLD, but I still suck at almost everything. I'd be happy if I do a sub 25 Avg on 3x3x3, sub 1m OH, and sub 2m 3BLD, the rest I'd be OK with just participating.

I'm also trying to go to Euro 2014, are any of you going?

Edit: forgot to add my goals: sub 6 by summer, sub 5 3 months later. I'll try to report at least weekly


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## MarcelP (Feb 21, 2014)

moralsh said:


> I'm also trying to go to Euro 2014, are any of you going?



Where is that?

EDIT: never mind: http://www.worldcubeassociation.org/results/c.php?i=Euro2014  I doubt I will be going there.


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## kunparekh18 (Feb 21, 2014)

Sorry I'm a teetotaler


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## mark49152 (Feb 21, 2014)

kunparekh18 said:


> Sorry I'm a teetotaler



Coke?


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## pipkiksass (Feb 21, 2014)

I need to get in on this. My cross is still (proportionately) the weakest part of my solve. 

In other news, do any of you guys OH? 

I just started OH while watching TV last weekend... and my 2H averages have dropped by over a second!!!

Not saying it's a miracle, but I think it must really help lookahead?!


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## kunparekh18 (Feb 21, 2014)

OH does help lookahead. But when you get fast in OH (like 19-20s) it's the reverse, you have to count on your 2H lookahead to get better OH times.


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## Schmidt (Feb 21, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> Where is that?
> 
> EDIT: never mind: http://www.worldcubeassociation.org/results/c.php?i=Euro2014  I doubt I will be going there.


From Shakespeare's Hamlet:

Marcellus said: Something is rotten in the state of Denmark.


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## ajayd (Feb 21, 2014)

Can I join in?
Cross+1 Avg of 12
4.44 seconds
Thoughts: LOL this is pathetic, im sub 15. There's no reason for such an awful cross first pair time...
Goals: Sub 4, Sub 3 might be a reach
Deadlines: August


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## MarcelP (Feb 21, 2014)

Schmidt said:


> From Shakespeare's Hamlet:
> 
> Marcellus said: Something is rotten in the state of Denmark.



Are you going? It will be fun ofcourse to beat you in a competition. I might come after all


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## Schmidt (Feb 21, 2014)

I can't :,(


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## sneaklyfox (Feb 21, 2014)

pipkiksass said:


> I need to get in on this. My cross is still (proportionately) the weakest part of my solve.
> 
> In other news, do any of you guys OH?
> 
> ...



Yeah, I OH. It does help with lookahead some because you can't move as fast so you try to make up for it with lookahead.


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## AmazingCuber (Feb 21, 2014)

I'd love to go to Euros, but it'll be very hard.


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## mark49152 (Feb 22, 2014)

I'd love to go to Euro 2014 but for me it will be difficult to get to any competition due to family commitments.

On cross+1: ao50 = 7.60. My first goal is to figure out why I'm so much slower than my 7.03 the other day, and retake that ground.


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## mark49152 (Feb 23, 2014)

Tonight's cross+1 ao50 = 7.29. Did a little bit of blind training before that, maybe 10 crosses.

Cross is the weakest part of my solve, and the stage I have practised least. For my average, my cross should be about 22% faster than it is, and cross+1 27% faster. However, strangely, I was comparing my recent splits to splits from March last year, and cross is the stage I have improved most at, being 57% faster compared to 47-49% faster for all other stages and for full solves. Weird...


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## MarcelP (Feb 23, 2014)

Unfortunatly I have no time to practice this weekend. Hopefully tomorrow next ao50 cross +1


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## mark49152 (Feb 24, 2014)

Ao50 = 6.58 with best 5/12 sub-6. Did about 70 blind crosses before this ao50 so guess that helped.


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## kcl (Feb 24, 2014)

2.04 ao12 today grr


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## moralsh (Feb 24, 2014)

I just did a quick Ao12 before working, nice results:

best time: 4.72
worst time: 10.19

current avg5: 5.37 (σ = 0.33)
current avg12: 6.40 (σ = 1.50)

Times: 


Spoiler



10.19, 6.12, 5.59, 5.99, 9.41, 5.49, 6.43, 4.72, 5.42, 8.83, 5.67, 5.01



EDIT: also, unrelated to cross+1 I had yesterday the luckiest solve of my life: Easy cross, 2 pairs just sitting there to be inserted and a LL skip, it wasn't timed but I'm sure it was close to sub-10


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## MarcelP (Feb 24, 2014)

moralsh said:


> I just did a quick Ao12 before working, nice results:
> 
> best time: 4.72
> worst time: 10.19
> ...



If it is not on film, it did not happen


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## moralsh (Feb 24, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> If it is not on film, it did not happen



I'm not really sure it did happen , I think I have a higher chance of improving to the level where this is possible than to have a solve that lucky again.


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## MarcelP (Feb 24, 2014)

moralsh said:


> I'm not really sure it did happen , I think I have a higher chance of improving to the level where this is possible than to have a solve that lucky again.



I just had a solve where I finished the inspection timer was still running at 14 secs (forgot to start timer). So I started the timer while solving and finished in 4 secs.. So total solve plus inspection was less than 19 secs..


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## MarcelP (Feb 24, 2014)

cubizh said:


> Have you abandoned color neutrality? I've seen more than 90% of your recent video solves using white cross, was curious to see if you (consciously or not) abandoned trying to follow other cross possibilities or you are just faster using just white or is it just a coincidence.



I filmed a CN training. Here are a few solves where I choose not to pick white color although they are pretty good white/yellow crosses.



Spoiler



7. 17.73 D B2 U' B2 U2 R2 D F2 R2 L2 U L U B' F' R' D' F2 L2 B F' U'
8. 23.41 L2 D' B2 F2 U' L2 U R2 D' R2 D2 B R' F' L2 U F U' B' R' U'
9. 22.46 D F2 R2 L2 D' B2 R2 D' U L2 D2 R' F D' R F' L' U R2 B' L' U2
10. 21.85 F2 U2 R2 B2 R2 L2 U F2 D R2 U' F' U2 R B U L2 U2 F' R2 F2 U2
11. 19.48 R2 U' B2 L2 U' R2 D' R2 U L2 U2 L F2 D' B2 L' B' L' U2 R L D'


I was nicely surpriced since the average was pretty good (few secs faster than I normal average). 

Btw, this is a brand new Gan III V2 *57 mm*.. love that cube.

[video=youtube_share;YfDJ41NjFGk]http://youtu.be/YfDJ41NjFGk[/video]


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## AmazingCuber (Feb 24, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> video . . .



nice! The Gans III 57 mm looks really nice, I hope mine will arrive soon.  How long did shipping take for you from cubezz.com?

How fast should your cross+1 be for sub 15? I'll do a cross+1 average later. 

Also, it would be great if you check out my latest video, a review on the MoYu WeiSu! 






Do you have any tips?


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## MarcelP (Feb 24, 2014)

AmazingCuber said:


> nice! The Gans III 57 mm looks really nice, I hope mine will arrive soon.  How long did shipping take for you from cubezz.com?
> 
> How fast should your cross+1 be for sub 15? I'll do a cross+1 average later.
> 
> ...


Awesome video. You really have a knack for doing reviews. I think your cross plus 1 should be sub 4 to average 15 secs.


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## AmazingCuber (Feb 24, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> Awesome video. You really have a knack for doing reviews. I think your cross plus 1 should be sub 4 to average 15 secs.



thanks!  If you like the video, be sure to like and comment. What videos do you want next? A review of the Shengshou mirror cube?

Ok, I'll do an average of that tomorrow. I average 15 seconds, but I doubt my cross + 1 is sub 4. Maybe I should really work on that for sub 15. Thanks!


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## kcl (Feb 24, 2014)

AmazingCuber said:


> thanks!  If you like the video, be sure to like and comment. What videos do you want next? A review of the Shengshou mirror cube?
> 
> Ok, I'll do an average of that tomorrow. I average 15 seconds, but I doubt my cross + 1 is sub 4. Maybe I should really work on that for sub 15. Thanks!



Almost surely. Make sure your cross is around 2 seconds, and first pair is 1 or less.


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## AmazingCuber (Feb 24, 2014)

kclejeune said:


> Almost surely. Make sure your cross is around 2 seconds, and first pair is 1 or less.



Ok great thanks!


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## sneaklyfox (Feb 24, 2014)

Nice review. You do a good job of that.


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## mark49152 (Feb 24, 2014)

mark49152 said:


> Ao50 = 6.58 with best 5/12 sub-6. Did about 70 blind crosses before this ao50 so guess that helped.


Back up to 7.23 tonight. Had many more pauses between cross and pair - I'm in a hotel room with poor lighting so that didn't help.


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## AmazingCuber (Feb 25, 2014)

sneaklyfox said:


> Nice review. You do a good job of that.



thanks!


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## MarcelP (Feb 25, 2014)

Todays Ao50 cross+1:

Mean: 6.37
Average: 6.38
Best time: 2.54
Median: 6.43
Worst time: 9.79
Standard deviation: 1.38

Best average of 5: 5.00
31-35 - (4.36) 5.86 4.78 (6.37) 4.37

Best average of 12: 5.48
28-39 - 5.54 (7.70) 5.40 (4.36) 5.86 4.78 6.37 4.37 5.68 5.76 5.95 5.04

I feel sub 5 might be tough but doable by summer.


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## mark49152 (Feb 25, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> I feel sub 5 might be tough but doable by summer.


Yeah very doable - you're already very close to that for ao12, so you already have the pace and just need to extend your consistency. How was your transition?


----------



## mark49152 (Feb 25, 2014)

Ao50 = 7.43. Bad lighting again, but I persevered based on the probably ridiculous idea that not being able to see properly would test the effectiveness of my inspection better.


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## sneaklyfox (Feb 26, 2014)

Best
Ao5 = 3.23
Ao12 = 3.80
Ao50 = 4.05

Last few days just been practicing planning the whole cross+1 during inspection (at least up to figuring out where the first pair pieces are going to be, not necessarily the orientation). Sometimes it's not too hard but sometimes it takes much too long to be reasonable. But I'll keep at it and will probably get much better and faster at planning it.


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## MarcelP (Feb 26, 2014)

mark49152 said:


> Yeah very doable - you're already very close to that for ao12, so you already have the pace and just need to extend your consistency. How was your transition?


I turn slow, even during cross. So there for I can spot my first pair while making the cross. I just uploaded an Ao12 (22 secs) and most of the cross + 1 are probably sub 5  I feel this targeted practice is very good for my progress.



sneaklyfox said:


> Best
> Ao5 = 3.23
> Ao12 = 3.80
> Ao50 = 4.05
> ...



Have you improved? For me Cross+1 during inspection is still to hard. Tracking one corner is some times ok though..


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## sneaklyfox (Feb 26, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> Have you improved? For me Cross+1 during inspection is still to hard. Tracking one corner is some times ok though..



Haven't noticed much improvement yet, but I just have to keep practicing. I used to not plan the first pair at all but just hoped to spot something during cross.


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## kcl (Feb 26, 2014)

*Hi, Marcel from Holland here*

I'm going to be honest, it's not always worth it to find your first pair. If you can't find exactly what will happen, don't worry about it, it comes with time. I would consider myself pretty decent as far as cross+1 goes. If I can't find my entire first pair, I just figure out where a corner will be. Because I only have to "search" for one piece, the edge, I can just find it while bulidng my cross. Another thing that works along with what I mentioned is to track a corner and just see where an edge is during inspection, and physically track the corner. It gives you a visual idea of where to find the edge after the cross. . If you then only have to spot the orientation of the edge, the first pair will be very fast since you already know where the corner is. Hopefully this makes sense, I'm dead tired


----------



## AmazingCuber (Feb 26, 2014)

I did this a bit and weirdly enough the longer/more complicated crosses gave better times. Maybe because I then could look-ahead?


----------



## kcl (Feb 26, 2014)

AmazingCuber said:


> I did this a bit and weirdly enough the longer/more complicated crosses gave better times. Maybe because I then could look-ahead?



If you know exactly what you're doing for your cross, just find the other pieces as you build it. If you aren't trying to manipulate stuff your cross should be short. That being said I wouldn't be surprised if mine regularly breaks 10+ moves because I build pairs in making it.


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## Schmidt (Mar 1, 2014)

I don't have time to do this on Monday, so I did it a few days early this year:
http://www.speedsolving.com/forum/s...t-from-Denmark&p=830262&viewfull=1#post830262
Average of 12: 22.38
1. 20.71 
2. (18.88) 
3. 21.90 
4. 24.44 
5. 21.91 
6. 20.03 
7. 24.33 
8. 22.53 
9. (29.94) 
10. 21.38
11. 24.30 
12. 22.22 

Still improving  even without practice


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## MarcelP (Mar 1, 2014)

Schmidt said:


> Still improving  even without practice



Nice.. Sub 20 still a goal?


----------



## Schmidt (Mar 1, 2014)

Yeah and so is subfaz, but both of them seems far away.


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## mark49152 (Mar 2, 2014)

Back to cross+1 after a couple of days off. Ao50 = 6.96 with bao12 = 6.15. I'm not seeing the first pair during cross at all. Feels like major improvement will be hard to achieve.


----------



## sneaklyfox (Mar 2, 2014)

kclejeune said:


> I'm going to be honest, it's not always worth it to find your first pair. If you can't find exactly what will happen, don't worry about it, it comes with time. I would consider myself pretty decent as far as cross+1 goes. If I can't find my entire first pair, I just figure out where a corner will be. Because I only have to "search" for one piece, the edge, I can just find it while bulidng my cross. Another thing that works along with what I mentioned is to track a corner and just see where an edge is during inspection, and physically track the corner. It gives you a visual idea of where to find the edge after the cross. . If you then only have to spot the orientation of the edge, the first pair will be very fast since you already know where the corner is. Hopefully this makes sense, I'm dead tired



I know what you're saying. But since I almost never did anything during cross (not planning the first pair, not even tracking a corner) I figure it would be good to get into a habit of doing more than just cross. It's helping a bit during my normal solves so when cross isn't too hard I also start having a tendency of figuring out more than that. I'm going to keep practicing this way.


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## MarcelP (Mar 2, 2014)

mark49152 said:


> I'm not seeing the first pair during cross at all. Feels like major improvement will be hard to achieve.



No not at all.. You know I am lousy at cross and it took me a long time to get decent cross times. Still... from the beginning I try to track a corner during the cross. It is really not that hard and will speed up your cross+1 quite a bit. The only down side it that when you track a visible (in inspection) corner, it might be a hard case to solve after cross is done. So there might be better F2L pairs available but since you tracked that specific one, you might lose time making that first 'hard' pair even though faster ones are available.



sneaklyfox said:


> ..I'm going to keep practicing this way.



Yeah, you will get better for sure.. The real fast people plan cross + 1 in inspection time. Also X-cross training might be usefull. JSkyler.. has a great video on that.


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## mark49152 (Mar 2, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> Still... from the beginning I try to track a corner during the cross. It is really not that hard and will speed up your cross+1 quite a bit.


I might stop timing for a few days and do blind practice only. That's what helped my F2L. Just solving isn't helping me change the way I solve.

I know what you mean about tracking a corner then finding it's a hard CE case, but somehow being able to track like that also helps find pairs quicker. Often during F2L I'll just spot there's an easier pair and switch.


----------



## MarcelP (Mar 2, 2014)

mark49152 said:


> I might stop timing for a few days and do blind practice only. That's what helped my F2L. Just solving isn't helping me change the way I solve.
> 
> I know what you mean about tracking a corner then finding it's a hard CE case, but somehow being able to track like that also helps find pairs quicker. Often during F2L I'll just spot there's an easier pair and switch.



Cross+1 practice must have improved me.. Broke PB's (Ao50 and Ao12).. I am on fire today...






EDIT: Cube: Gan III V2 57 mm


----------



## mark49152 (Mar 2, 2014)

Great progress Marcel!


----------



## MarcelP (Mar 2, 2014)

Yeah baby.. yeah! PB Ao100!


Spoiler



Mean: 21.94
Average: 21.94
Best time: 15.54
Median: 22.16
Worst time: 28.37
Standard deviation: 2.64

Best average of 5: 19.91
9-13 - 18.04 22.23 (22.60) (15.73) 19.45

Best average of 12: 20.39
17-28 - 18.15 19.04 20.34 21.00 22.71 19.15 21.20 19.89 19.25 23.12 (24.26) (17.42)

1. 22.17 B2 R2 B2 L2 U' F2 D B2 F2 U F2 L' D2 F' U F2 D F2 L B' L2 U'
2. 24.92 L2 D2 L2 D R2 B2 D2 F2 U F2 R2 F U' F2 L' B' D R D' R2 D2
3. 20.36 D F2 D B2 U R2 D B2 U2 R2 D2 L' D U' B R' D' L' F U
4. 19.54 L2 B2 D B2 R2 D U2 L2 D' F2 D2 L' F L2 F D' R D' R2 U' L' U
5. 21.10 D B2 U' B2 D R2 B2 D B2 L2 D' B' U R' D' B2 F' U R' L B2 U
6. 25.40 F2 R2 U' R2 L2 U2 F2 D' F2 D' L2 B' L' U2 F' R' F2 L' F' U F' U'
7. 18.95 L2 B2 D' L2 U2 F2 D' R2 L2 D2 U' B' R' D2 U2 B' D' R' L2 B D' L
8. 22.26 D' B2 U2 L2 D' B2 U B2 D' F2 U L' U' F2 R L B' L U2 B2 D
9. 18.04 U2 F2 L2 U' R2 D' B2 D' F2 U R2 F B2 U' L' U R F' D' R' U
10. 22.23 D B2 U' F2 L2 D' L2 D U F2 U' R B2 F' L' D' B2 R B' R2 B U'
11. 22.60 D' R2 U' F2 D L2 B2 F2 D L2 U' L' U R F2 R B L F L' D2 U
12. 15.73 D' B2 D' L2 D U2 R2 F2 D' L2 F2 L' F2 D' F U2 L D' F U2 R2
13. 19.45 D2 R2 B2 D U R2 F2 D' B2 D L2 F D F D2 L2 D2 F' R F2 L
14. 25.37 D' R2 B2 F2 U' B2 L2 D2 R2 D R2 F R2 D2 F R' U B R' D' R2 U'
15. 24.79 L2 F2 U2 B2 U2 R2 F2 L2 U R2 U R L F' L B2 D U2 L U' R2 F'
16. 28.37 L2 U2 L2 D R2 D' F2 U B2 F2 R2 B' F D B2 L' D' R B' L F2
17. 18.15 U' L2 U2 R2 B2 R2 D' F2 R2 U' F2 L F L' B2 U2 R' F D L' F2 U
18. 19.04 R2 L2 F2 U2 L2 U' F2 D' R2 L2 F2 R B' F' R' B' D' B2 L2 F' R' D'
19. 20.34 U F2 U R2 F2 L2 U' B2 U' L2 D2 L' F L B' D2 R2 L2 D' B' L2 U2
20. 21.00 D F2 L2 D' L2 U' B2 F2 D' U' L' U F' R2 B2 U' B U2 R' D L
21. 22.71 L2 D R2 B2 U' L2 D F2 R2 F2 R' U' R L D F' R2 F' D' R U'
22. 19.15 U2 L2 D R2 D L2 D' F2 U L U2 B D' F D2 F2 U' F' L U2
23. 21.20 U2 L2 F2 D' R2 F2 U2 B2 F2 L D' L' B U B2 F' R U
24. 19.89 B2 R2 F2 U R2 D' U' L2 U' R2 U2 L' D' U' F U' L F2 U2 B2 U2
25. 19.25 B2 D F2 D' B2 U' R2 U' R2 F2 D2 L' B R F2 D' R U R2 F' L2
26. 23.12 F2 D B2 D L2 D2 R2 B2 U B2 U' B U R2 B F D2 R' F2 D2 F U'
27. 24.26 U F2 D' B2 L2 D2 B2 R2 D R2 D' F' D L' B' R' D2 F R2 B U2
28. 17.42 R2 B2 D' R2 L2 D L2 U R2 U F' D L2 F L2 U2 L' B D B U'
29. 18.85 L2 B2 U F2 U B2 U2 B2 U' R2 U2 B' L2 U' L' F D F2 R U2 R' U
30. 26.37 D' L2 U2 F2 R2 U B2 F2 L2 F2 U' B L D' R' U2 L' D2 U' L' U2 F2
31. 23.31 F2 D' F2 U' F2 L2 D' F2 L2 B2 D2 B L2 U' L2 F L2 B' L' D' R' U'
32. 24.70 D2 F2 D2 F2 L2 B2 F2 L2 D B2 U B U2 B2 L F2 U' F2 U' F2
33. 23.95 F2 L2 D R2 F2 U2 R2 B2 D L2 U' F D R2 B R' F L F U' B2
34. 22.07 D' B2 U2 R2 B2 R2 D' R2 D2 F2 U' R' B R F U' L B D2 B D U'
35. 19.92 D R2 D2 L2 B2 D2 L2 D' L2 F2 R2 F L2 B' D B F2 R F U' B
36. 23.56 B2 L2 U' L2 U F2 D B2 D2 B2 U2 B R' F2 U L2 F' R' D U R U2
37. 22.46 U' L2 U B2 U2 F2 R2 B2 D F' U2 L' F' D2 R D' R2 D' B' U'
38. 18.23 D L2 F2 D' B2 R2 U' B2 L2 U2 L2 B' D2 L2 B' U R' F2 D R B2 D'
39. 25.62 D B2 D' B2 F2 U2 L2 D' F2 U2 R2 F R' D U' F' U' R B R F2
40. 23.25 U B2 D2 R2 B2 F2 U' R2 L2 B2 U' L U L B2 F' U' B F2 D F2 U2
41. 21.43 U2 F2 D U2 F2 D R2 L2 B2 R2 U2 R' B R L F' D' R U' R2 B' U
42. 23.76 D' R2 F2 D' R2 U' L2 U2 R2 U' R' D L2 B L2 F' L' U B' D2 U2
43. 19.07 B2 L2 D2 U B2 D L2 U R2 L2 U' F L2 D F D F2 R L' D B U2
44. 21.37 L2 U' R2 U' L2 D' U2 F2 U2 B2 L' U F2 D' F' U' R D2 F' D'
45. 23.89 R2 L2 D' U' B2 D L2 U B2 D R B' U' B' F R2 D' B L2 D
46. 19.76 D B2 F2 L2 U' R2 D L2 D' R2 D F U' L D L' B' F2 R B2 U'
47. 22.07 D' R2 L2 D U2 B2 L2 B2 F2 D' L2 F L2 B' R L D' F D' U' F U
48. 20.28 D L2 D2 U F2 L2 F2 L2 D2 F2 L2 F D2 L2 F' R' L' F' R B'
49. 21.48 B2 U2 B2 L2 D2 R2 U2 B2 D' L2 U' R' B2 D B' D R' B2 L' D F U
50. 16.57 U' F2 L2 D' L2 D2 B2 L2 D L2 U2 F' R2 B U R L2 B2 D' R D
51. 24.65 U L2 F2 D B2 F2 D2 R2 D' F2 R2 F D' F2 R' B' U R' L B2 D U2
52. 24.06 L2 B2 L2 U' F2 R2 D' U L2 D U F L2 U R' U B' D' F' L' B2 L'
53. 24.18 B2 R2 D B2 R2 F2 U' F2 D U2 B' L2 D' R B' R' L B U2 R2
54. 21.09 U2 B2 R2 D F2 D B2 L2 D L2 U R F L B R B' F2 L B2 U'
55. 22.68 F2 U B2 U B2 U2 R2 B2 U L2 B' D' L U F' L' D2 F2 R B U
56. 26.01 B2 F2 L2 D F2 D2 F2 R2 L2 F2 U' B' D' F R' U B' D2 L' B' F' U
57. 23.89 B2 L2 U2 L2 F2 D2 U B2 F2 R' U' L B2 F R2 D2 R U' B' U'
58. 23.39 U' L2 F2 D2 L2 D R2 B2 U' L2 U L' U' B' L' D B L' B2 U' B' U'
59. 22.75 R2 D F2 L2 D' R2 U2 B2 D2 F2 R B R2 D2 U R' B' U2 F R2
60. 20.04 B2 D B2 D L2 D2 F2 D F2 U2 F2 R' D2 L' F' U B F D' U2 L'
61. 25.50 F2 U B2 U2 R2 D B2 D L2 U2 L B F L2 U R D2 B U2 R2
62. 26.18 R2 D' B2 F2 D' F2 L2 U' L2 U' L' F D2 U' R B2 L F2 L2 B' U'
63. 22.82 D B2 R2 D' R2 U' B2 D L2 U R' U B L B2 F' U' R' D' L2 D'
64. 22.31 B2 F2 R2 D' F2 U' B2 D R2 U2 L2 F R2 L D2 B' U R' D2 F2 R'
65. 26.51 R2 B2 F2 L2 D L2 D2 F2 D' L2 D' F' R' U L2 D2 U2 F' R F2 D2
66. 22.48 F2 L2 U' R2 D F2 D' R2 D U2 F R' D R' U' B D' B R' L' D2
67. 22.46 D R2 D' R2 B2 U2 R2 L2 F2 U' L2 F D B' R2 L' U' F2 R B' R2 D2
68. 22.07 R2 U' F2 D2 B2 R2 U B2 U' L2 U' F' D F2 U' R L U2 B U2 B'
69. 23.50 D2 F2 R2 D F2 R2 F2 U F2 L2 D F U R' B U2 L' U B' R2 D2 U
70. 22.04 U' L2 D F2 U' R2 L2 U' F2 R2 F2 R' B2 D U F R' B2 F L B' U2
71. 21.81 U F2 D R2 F2 D2 U' L2 D B2 U' L' U' L B' R2 U R' U F2 R
72. 21.93 U' F2 L2 D L2 B2 U B2 D B2 D' F U2 F U L D' B' D2 R' D' L
73. 19.06 B2 D B2 L2 U F2 R2 F2 D' L2 D2 L' B U F' L2 B U R' L B2 D'
74. 23.82 D' B2 U R2 U' F2 L2 D' B2 R2 U F L' B2 F' U2 R' L B' L2 B2 U2
75. 20.39 L2 B2 F2 U' R2 B2 U L2 U' F2 U L' D' F2 R U' F2 L2 F D2 U2
76. 16.40 R2 B2 U R2 D2 R2 L2 D' F2 R' B' U' R' D' R L' U L F U'
77. 21.76 B2 L2 B2 U L2 B2 U' R2 U' F2 U2 B' L2 F' L' D' F' R2 D' R2 L2 U
78. 22.82 R2 U2 R2 D' B2 D' U2 F2 L2 U2 F' D B U2 L' F R U2 F2 R' U2
79. 18.79 U' L2 U' L2 U' F2 U2 B2 F2 U2 L2 F' D2 R U' L2 D' R B2 R2 D'
80. 23.48 B2 U B2 F2 D' F2 R2 U2 B2 U2 B2 L' U F' D2 F D' B R' L2
81. 24.01 R2 D R2 F2 D U2 B2 L2 D2 L2 U2 F R' L U R' B R2 U' R D U
82. 21.10 D L2 B2 F2 U2 B2 U L2 U' L2 U' B' U2 F D' L' F2 R' B' D2 U2
83. 15.54 R2 F2 D' L2 D U R2 U' L2 B2 U' R U2 L' F' L F2 D' L2 B2 U'
84. 20.43 B2 R2 L2 U L2 D2 B2 U2 B2 U' F D F' R F U L2 F2 U2 L2
85. 18.89 U' L2 B2 L2 B2 U' R2 D' U' L2 U' B L F R2 B D' B' L' D2 B2 U2
86. 25.07 U' L2 U' R2 U2 B2 F2 U' F2 L2 D F L' B2 F2 U2 B2 R B L' B
87. 21.78 D2 R2 U' R2 F2 U L2 D B2 D' U' F L2 D B2 R' D2 U F D F'
88. 22.14 F2 D' F2 D R2 D R2 D R2 F2 U' L' D' B D2 F U R2 U2 L' F U'
89. 24.76 U2 L2 F2 D' B2 F2 R2 B2 D2 B2 D' R U L2 D2 R' B' R2 L2 D B' U'
90. 22.39 B2 D L2 D2 U' F2 L2 F2 L2 D' U F' R' L F' L' D' B U R' L' U
91. 18.31 D' F2 L2 U' L2 D L2 U B2 F2 U' R' D U2 F D R U B2 F' L'
92. 26.75 B2 U' R2 B2 D2 R2 F2 L2 D' R2 U' R U2 F' R' U' L' B L' B2 D' L'
93. 21.42 D L2 D F2 R2 U F2 L2 D2 F2 R2 B' R D2 F R2 U2 B' D F U'
94. 24.78 D F2 D R2 F2 U L2 U B2 F2 U' R D F' U2 R2 L2 F' D' R2 L D
95. 23.09 U' B2 U' B2 R2 U' B2 F2 U' L2 U2 F' D2 U R F2 D B R' L' D'
96. 16.95 F2 D F2 D B2 L2 D L2 F2 U' F2 L' U' F' D L B' F2 R' L2 D' F2
97. 25.54 D B2 U R2 D R2 B2 D B2 U L2 B' L' U2 R' B U2 R B' F2
98. 18.35 R2 U B2 L2 F2 L2 U' L2 U' B2 U' L' D L2 B' D2 F' D F2 R L2 U'
99. 21.85 B2 L2 B2 L2 D B2 U L2 D' U' F2 L' F U' R2 B F' L B F2 L U2
100. 23.57 R2 L2 U F2 U F2 R2 D2 L2 D2 L2 B L' D U' R D R B' R U2 R2


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## mark49152 (Mar 2, 2014)

Sub-22, very nice! What do you think you improved most?


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## MarcelP (Mar 2, 2014)

mark49152 said:


> Sub-22, very nice! What do you think you improved most?



Yeah, well Ao100 by a full second. I doubt it is all Cross+1 training. I think I am better at solving overall. Still slow solving btw.  When I start rushing I get lousy times.


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## mark49152 (Mar 3, 2014)

Did 50 blind crosses before tonight's ao50 cross+1 thinking that might warm me up for a good time, but no, only 7.13.


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## sneaklyfox (Mar 3, 2014)

Go sub-20 Ao12!

Yeah, I watches jskyler's vid on xcross before. Didn't really get the hang... I figured that since it doesn't come up so much unless you're CN that I'd rather just get better at cross+1.


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## kcl (Mar 3, 2014)

2.00 cross+1 ao12 grrr

They were pretty easy scrambles tbh


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## pipkiksass (Mar 5, 2014)

I've known for AGES that my cross sucks, and I've been meaning to participate in this informal contest to inspire me to see just how shocking and improve it...

So (according to Speedpicker's systematic analysis) at 19 seconds my cross + 1 should be c.4.66 seconds on average (24.5% of solve). I just did my first EVER actual practice that doesn't involve solving a full cube, and did a session of cross + 1:

Best: 2.92 
Worst: 9.14
Best 5: 4.76, 12: 5.09
Session avg: 5.73 
Mean: *5.74*

There were only 16 sub-5 times in the whole session, and on average, I'm taking almost 1.2 seconds more to solve cross + 1 than I should. The big shocker is that there was a 9, 2 8s and 4 7s in the average!

I'm going to time cross only tonight, as that's meant to be 12% (apparently), and see how that compares. Not sure whether it's the 1st pair or the cross that's holding me back, but if I can get cross + 1 down to c.4.5s then that should knock well over a second off my averages! 

The thing that gets to me about the cross is that I can't even conceive of how a cross can be executed sub-1 on average. I have PLLs that I can probably sub-1 (at a stretch), definitely sub-2. I can understand how these can be executed in .7 seconds by faster cubers. Maybe it's poor finger-tricks, but I just can't visualise how it's possible to solve the cross in 1 second. 

Anyway, I'm off to work, but my plan is: 

1. BLD cross practice
2. Try to plan first pair
3. Watch some videos of fast cubers solving the cross, and see how the hell they can do it in less than a second!!!

If I can do this then I'm sub 16!


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## kcl (Mar 5, 2014)

*Hi, Marcel from Holland here*



pipkiksass said:


> I've known for AGES that my cross sucks, and I've been meaning to participate in this informal contest to inspire me to see just how shocking and improve it...
> 
> So (according to Speedpicker's systematic analysis) at 19 seconds my cross + 1 should be c.4.66 seconds on average (24.5% of solve). I just did my first EVER actual practice that doesn't involve solving a full cube, and did a session of cross + 1:
> 
> ...



It's just spamming TPS lol. My cross+1 is almost sub 2.

Just plan your first pair and spam TPS. One looking 2x2 solves can help you track pieces better.


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## pipkiksass (Mar 5, 2014)

kclejeune said:


> It's just spamming TPS lol. My cross+1 is almost sub 2.
> 
> Just plan your first pair and spam TPS. One looking 2x2 solves can help you track pieces better.



I just find cross turns awkward, maybe because of rotations and B moves etc.?


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## kcl (Mar 5, 2014)

pipkiksass said:


> I just find cross turns awkward, maybe because of rotations and B moves etc.?



Even so haha. I use a lot of B moves in mine but I don't really have to regrip.


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## pipkiksass (Mar 5, 2014)

kclejeune said:


> Even so haha. I use a lot of B moves in mine but I don't really have to regrip.



Yeah, I guess it will just come with practice! Would you mind filming an ao12 cross + 1 and posting the vid with scrambles and solutions?


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## kcl (Mar 5, 2014)

pipkiksass said:


> Yeah, I guess it will just come with practice! Would you mind filming an ao12 cross + 1 and posting the vid with scrambles and solutions?



Sure. I'm at school right now, I'll do it a bit later.


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## MarcelP (Mar 5, 2014)

kclejeune said:


> Sure. I'm at school right now, I'll do it a bit later.



Cool!


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## mark49152 (Mar 5, 2014)

pipkiksass said:


> I just find cross turns awkward, maybe because of rotations and B moves etc.?


Yeah I asked about this in the cross help thread a while back but I don't think anyone answered. I wonder if trying to do computer scrambles at speed might help with cross TPS, as I find scramble moves similarly "random".


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## AmazingCuber (Mar 5, 2014)

mark49152 said:


> Yeah I asked about this in the cross help thread a while back but I don't think anyone answered. I wonder if trying to do computer scrambles at speed might help with cross TPS, as I find scramble moves similarly "random".



Maybe. A good way to incorporate this into solves might be to scramble during inspection, so to put pressure on you to finish quickly so you still have some inspection. Thrawst just did that in his latest video, solves with restrictions #6.


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## kcl (Mar 5, 2014)

*Hi, Marcel from Holland here*



AmazingCuber said:


> Maybe. A good way to incorporate this into solves might be to scramble during inspection, so to put pressure on you to finish quickly so you still have some inspection. Thrawst just did that in his latest video, solves with restrictions #6.



lol that doesn't work for me, I tried it once. My scrambling is sub 5 so I can basically inspect normally XD


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## mark49152 (Mar 5, 2014)

AmazingCuber said:


> Maybe. A good way to incorporate this into solves might be to scramble during inspection, so to put pressure on you to finish quickly so you still have some inspection. Thrawst just did that in his latest video, solves with restrictions #6.



I would probably just start by timing scrambles. Combining scrambles with solves would just obscure any progress made by practising scramble TPS. A scrambler that generates scrambles with consistent number of moves and shows an image of the scrambled state would be useful.


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## pipkiksass (Mar 6, 2014)

mark49152 said:


> I would probably just start by timing scrambles. Combining scrambles with solves would just obscure any progress made by practising scramble TPS. A scrambler that generates scrambles with consistent number of moves and shows an image of the scrambled state would be useful.



I love coming back to a discussion after a few hours away when you've been thinking about it yourself, and seeing how massively the thread has dovetailed from what you were thinking!!!

So Mark, I hate B moves. I'm not a massive fan of F moves, or even L moves, but I live with them. I'd rather use R U D where possible. One thing I've noticed in reconstructions is that a lot of fast cubers rotate during cross. What I was going to say is, rather than work on increasing my efficiency at performing moves that I don't like, I'll look at ways to avoid these moves where possible - i.e. start my cross from a different orientation, or substitute B turns for y R'. 

But in my absence, this thread has really gone the other way! 

I don't think I'll be timing scrambles. My intention is (in no particular order) to:

a) work on my cross efficiency by looking at reconstructions,
b) solve lots of BLD crosses to completely master planning my cross,
c) solve lots of cross + 1 to get rid of my transition pauses,
d) once my cross planning improves, look at how cube rotations can help make my cross more fingertrick-able,
e) do lots of slow solves.

i'd rather reach a stage where my cross planning is so good that I can avoid awkward turns than get better at awkward turns! To each their own though, I guess.


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## kcl (Mar 6, 2014)

Wow. I just realized that the fact that I scramble really fast probably ties to me not hating awkward moves in my cross. That being said I rotate during cross sometimes depending on the situation.


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## sneaklyfox (Mar 6, 2014)

Interesting results from my experiment today. I did an Ao50 just planning cross and then did Ao50 planning cross+1 (determining where a pair will end up without knowing orientation) and another Ao50 just cross...

Planning Cross... Single: 2.38 / Ao5: 3.56 / Ao12: 4.09 / Ao50: 4.35
Planning Cross+1... Single: 1.85 / Ao5: 2.95 / Ao12: 3.32 / Ao50: 3.97
Planning Cross... Single: 2.02 / Ao5: 3.09 / Ao12: 3.67 / Ao50: 4.21

I wonder if my base Ao50 of 3.99 was because I started off with practicing cross for 50 solves. Maybe I'll try that again tomorrow. My Cross+1 was a lot worse than I expected maybe because I'm not used to thinking the extra stuff so if cross is more moves I lose track of what I planned or something weird like that. Or it's like I become unfocused because I'm used to scanning the cube for the first pair but when I already planned where the pieces are going to end up... I dunno... I guess I felt disoriented in my solve. I wonder if this way I will have more trouble with the second pair...


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## MarcelP (Mar 6, 2014)

pipkiksass said:


> What I was going to say is, rather than work on increasing my efficiency at performing moves that I don't like, I'll look at ways to avoid these moves where possible - i.e. start my cross from a different orientation, or substitute B turns for y R'.



That is excatly what I do. I always did cross on bottom and akward B and F moves. But after showing a OH video and asked people to comment on it, Sneaklyfox said to roate cube during cross to get more R and U moves.. That worked for me on OH but I also adapted it to my 2H cross solving. Yeah.. smart girl


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## mark49152 (Mar 6, 2014)

@Pip: Yeah I do all those things and agree they are more important. The scramble timing is not about trying to improve at awkward moves - it's about trying to improve TPS on sequences that are not in muscle memory. My cross is pretty efficient, but I turn too slow.


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## MarcelP (Mar 6, 2014)

After doing a Ao100 PB this week I actually start to feel I might be true sub 22 (well sub 23 at least). Today I filmed an Ao12 with three warm up solves. I am getting more 18's and 17's. And when I look at this video all cross+1 are sub 5. So the dedicated cross+1 training might have to do with my progress. One cross+1 was maybe not sub 5 but sub 6 but strangely it was the fastest solve of the Ao12 

Cube: new MoYu LiYing (not sure what to say about the cube yet, I am getting amazing times but my Gan III 57 mm feels so much smoother)


Spoiler



Best average of 12: 21.96
3-14 - 24.48 19.63 22.77 (24.96) 21.65 22.30 19.84 22.08 23.65 (17.33) 24.86 18.30

1. 20.47 B2 L2 U2 F2 U' R2 U B2 D' R2 U L U2 L2 U R2 B L2 D' B2 D U2
2. 23.00 R2 U' B2 D2 U R2 D R2 B2 D L2 B R' B U2 R F D' F2 R' F2 U2
3. 24.48 D B2 R2 B2 D' F2 D R2 U F' U B2 L' D2 B' D2 U' R' F'
4. 19.63 D B2 L2 B2 L2 U F2 U B2 R2 F2 R' F2 D L2 U' L F L' U' F' U'
5. 22.77 U R2 U R2 U' F2 L2 D2 B2 F2 D F B2 D' R F L2 B U2 R D
6. 24.96 U2 B2 U F2 R2 U R2 B2 R2 B2 U B' U' F U2 R F2 R L2 B' L2
7. 21.65 U B2 F2 U' B2 D2 F2 L2 U F2 U2 R D B F' U' L2 U' B' F' U'
8. 22.30 L2 B2 D R2 U R2 B2 D B2 L2 F2 R' F' L' U' B2 D2 F D' F' D'
9. 19.84 U' B2 L2 F2 L2 D F2 D' B2 F2 D F' D' B' D L D U2 F' R2 U
10. 22.08 F2 D R2 D' B2 D' L2 U' F2 L2 U' R F2 D L' D F2 U' B R L'
11. 23.65 F2 L2 D' F2 L2 U B2 R2 D U' R2 F L U B R B' F' L' F' D U
12. 17.33 L2 B2 F2 U' R2 U L2 U B2 L2 U' R' D2 R' F2 D R2 L' D' B' R2 D'
13. 24.86 U R2 U' R2 F2 L2 F2 D' U2 F2 D L' F D2 U L2 D2 B' F' U F L'
14. 18.30 B2 U B2 U2 L2 U R2 U' F2 U' B2 R B' L' B D' U' R D2 B' D2 U2



[video=youtube_share;QmP0E8Mt4cU]http://youtu.be/QmP0E8Mt4cU[/video]


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## sneaklyfox (Mar 6, 2014)

Marcel, yours is the first video I've seen of the Moyu Liying. Looks and sounds nice.


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## MarcelP (Mar 6, 2014)

sneaklyfox said:


> Marcel, yours is the first video I've seen of the Moyu Liying. Looks and sounds nice.



No, there are more video's out there. It is a great cube. Definatly main material. Not sure yet.


----------



## mark49152 (Mar 8, 2014)

Did an ao50 of 25-move scrambles and got 16.40, so about 1.5 tps. I expected to suck but not that badly. I estimate I get about 1.8-2.0 tps on cross usually, and assume that the worse tps on scrambles is down to more awkward moves and fewer familiar short sequences. During the average I realized that the reason scrambling feels to me to be similar to cross is not just the non-muscle-memory execution, but also the frequent regrips. 

Anyway, I don't know if I will bother doing this again but it was an interesting experiment. Any other suggestions for improving cross tps? (Not move efficiency or first pair transition, just tps.)


----------



## kcl (Mar 8, 2014)

Pip, I'm sorry about the delay with the cross+1 stuff. I shot a 2.38 ao12 and promptly proceeded to accidentally corrupt all the files on my camera.. I lost a nice 3x3 average also . Anyway, I kinda cut my fingernails too short so I can't cube for a day or two. Sorry . 

I'll upload one as soon as possible.


----------



## pipkiksass (Mar 8, 2014)

kclejeune said:


> Pip, I'm sorry about the delay with the cross+1 stuff. I shot a 2.38 ao12 and promptly proceeded to accidentally corrupt all the files on my camera.. I lost a nice 3x3 average also . Anyway, I kinda cut my fingernails too short so I can't cube for a day or two. Sorry .
> 
> I'll upload one as soon as possible.



Lol - 1st world problems or what? 

No worries, looking forward to it. Thanks Kennan.


----------



## MarcelP (Mar 8, 2014)

mark49152 said:


> Did an ao50 of 25-move scrambles and got 16.40, so about 1.5 tps. I expected to suck but not that badly. I estimate I get about 1.8-2.0 tps on cross usually, and assume that the worse tps on scrambles is down to more awkward moves and fewer familiar short sequences. During the average I realized that the reason scrambling feels to me to be similar to cross is not just the non-muscle-memory execution, but also the frequent regrips.
> 
> Anyway, I don't know if I will bother doing this again but it was an interesting experiment. Any other suggestions for improving cross tps? (Not move efficiency or first pair transition, just tps.)



Interesting, when I have the time I will do that too.


----------



## sneaklyfox (Mar 9, 2014)

mark49152 said:


> Did an ao50 of 25-move scrambles and got 16.40, so about 1.5 tps. I expected to suck but not that badly. I estimate I get about 1.8-2.0 tps on cross usually, and assume that the worse tps on scrambles is down to more awkward moves and fewer familiar short sequences. During the average I realized that the reason scrambling feels to me to be similar to cross is not just the non-muscle-memory execution, but also the frequent regrips.
> 
> Anyway, I don't know if I will bother doing this again but it was an interesting experiment. Any other suggestions for improving cross tps? (Not move efficiency or first pair transition, just tps.)



As my violin teacher put it, "It's easy to [turn] fast. Just [turn] faster." Hope that helps. 

Ok, but seriously, try to do things more fingertrick-friendly. For example, if you scramble with cross colour on bottom F2 R2... how would you do that cross execution-wise? I would have my left hand in "home" position (thumb on F face) and execute as R2' F2(double flick). And then near the end of cross if you might normally need to do a D or D' and another B/F turn you might want to consider doing a u/u' instead leaving you with a R/L turn instead. To execute a move such as B' R2 (if you needed that angle instead of doing y R' F2)... if you normally use say left index or right thumb to do B', you might consider using right ring instead so no regrips are necessary. Ok, does THAT help?

For interest, I'll try doing a 25-move scramble Ao50 later...
Note that time for scrambling factors in reading speed...

Edit: Ao50 25-move scramble = 7.14
3.5 TPS


----------



## mark49152 (Mar 9, 2014)

sneaklyfox said:


> Ok, but seriously, try to do things more fingertrick-friendly.


Thanks for the advice. I do try to keep it fingertrick-friendly but have certainly got some room for improvement.



sneaklyfox said:


> As my violin teacher put it, "It's easy to [turn] fast. Just [turn] faster." Hope that helps.


Maybe that's exactly right. Assume that for a given scramble I have an optimal, fingertrick-friendly cross solution planned. I know I will still be slow to solve that cross. I'm really not sure how to improve that, except perhaps trying to turn faster, and lots of practice.


----------



## MarcelP (Mar 10, 2014)

sneaklyfox said:


> Edit: Ao50 25-move scramble = 7.14
> 3.5 TPS



Wow, I expected you to turn much faster. I will try also soon..



mark49152 said:


> I'm really not sure how to improve that, except perhaps trying to turn faster, and lots of practice.



I remember clearly that I averaged cross over 15 seconds (no kidding.) I have been doing a lot of cross only solves. I still do.. Handscramble.. inspect, solve sighted cross only, hand scramble... etc I have come a long way like this but I feel like you.. what to do to really improve cross.


----------



## Arti (Mar 10, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> If it is not on film, it did not happen



Yep, I would really like to see the proof, I bet it looks magical..if it's not fake.


----------



## pipkiksass (Mar 10, 2014)

mark49152 said:


> Assume that for a given scramble I have an optimal, fingertrick-friendly cross solution planned. I know I will still be slow to solve that cross. I'm really not sure how to improve that, except perhaps trying to turn faster, and lots of practice.



This is exactly the problem I have. With OLL/PLLs, I can sub-2 some of them, and understand how faster cubers can sub-1. I can comprehend how drilling these algs will make you faster at them. 

With cross, even when I have a nice 5/6/7 move solution firmly in my head, it can take me 2, 3, even 4 seconds to pull off. And I just can't physically see how it can be done faster. 

The answer to all (cubing) questions... practice. Or rather 'focussed practice', I suppose?! :s


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## kcl (Mar 11, 2014)

*Hi, Marcel from Holland here*



Arti said:


> Yep, I would really like to see the proof, I bet it looks magical..if it's not fake.



Not true. 

If I had mentioned either of these without video they'd seem fake.














pipkiksass said:


> This is exactly the problem I have. With OLL/PLLs, I can sub-2 some of them, and understand how faster cubers can sub-1. I can comprehend how drilling these algs will make you faster at them.
> 
> With cross, even when I have a nice 5/6/7 move solution firmly in my head, it can take me 2, 3, even 4 seconds to pull off. And I just can't physically see how it can be done faster.
> 
> The answer to all (cubing) questions... practice. Or rather 'focussed practice', I suppose?! :s



The key is caffeine. In any fast average I upload I always have a coffee mug by me XD


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## sneaklyfox (Mar 11, 2014)

moralsh said:


> I just did a quick Ao12 before working, nice results:
> 
> best time: 4.72
> worst time: 10.19
> ...





kclejeune said:


> Not true.
> 
> If I had mentioned either of these without video they'd seem fake.
> 
> ...



No, they probably look magical. I remember way back in the day when I took a minute to solve a cube (before I learned CFOP or fingertricks and had only a storebought). I watched a ~10 second solve by Jean Pons I think and I thought that was pretty magical alright. It's like caveman would think a cell phone is really magical.


----------



## Arti (Mar 11, 2014)

sneaklyfox said:


> No, they probably look magical. I remember way back in the day when I took a minute to solve a cube (before I learned CFOP or fingertricks and had only a storebought). I watched a ~10 second solve by Jean Pons I think and I thought that was pretty magical alright. It's like caveman would think a cell phone is really magical.



How long did it take you to break 10 sneakly?


----------



## Arti (Mar 11, 2014)

kclejeune said:


> Not true.
> 
> If I had mentioned either of these without video they'd seem fake.
> 
> ...



I love how stoked and surprised you are with that LL skip in the first video. Great job, please post you YouTube channel name, you have a new subscriber.


----------



## kcl (Mar 11, 2014)

Arti said:


> I love how stoked and surprised you are with that LL skip in the first video. Great job, please post you YouTube channel name, you have a new subscriber.



Thank you! Haha. 

It's kennanlejeune.

http://www.youtube.com/user/kennanlejeune


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## sneaklyfox (Mar 11, 2014)

Arti said:


> How long did it take you to break 10 sneakly?


A year since I learned CFOP and actually started "speedcubing".


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## Arti (Mar 11, 2014)

sneaklyfox said:


> A year since I learned CFOP and actually started "speedcubing".



Cool, I've only been at it for two months, got a while to wait I guess..


----------



## Arti (Mar 11, 2014)

kclejeune said:


> Thank you! Haha.
> 
> It's kennanlejeune.
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/user/kennanlejeune



SUBBED!


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## pipkiksass (Mar 11, 2014)

Arti said:


> SUBBED!



Arti - you can reply to more than one post in a single post. Click on the "+ icon in the bottom-right corner of a post to add-it to multi-quote. You can get away with it here, chez Marcel, but elsewhere on the forums people will moan at you about it!


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## sneaklyfox (Mar 11, 2014)

Arti said:


> Cool, I've only been at it for two months, got a while to wait I guess..



Everyone progresses at a different speed. Just aim to constantly better yourself.


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## billythekidd (Mar 11, 2014)

haha I know who you are: Marcel Poots


----------



## MarcelP (Mar 12, 2014)

billythekidd said:


> haha I know who you are: Marcel Poots



Yep, that's what my WCA profile says. Who are you?


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## mark49152 (Mar 12, 2014)

sneaklyfox said:


> Edit: Ao50 25-move scramble = 7.14
> 3.5 TPS


Here's some dubious analysis based on sample size of 2 

I don't know your ao50+ so based on PB ao12= 13.95 let me guess at 15, and 60 moves for a full solve. Your solve tps would be ~4 whereas mine is ~2.4.

Both our cross+1 (based on 4.18 average for the 150 you posted recently) accounts for 28% of solve time, at ~78% of solve tps. However, your scrambles are much faster - 88% of your solve tps compared to my 64% of solve tps.

Obviously I'm proportionately slower at scrambling, perhaps because I don't practise as much using computer scrambles. More interestingly, it suggests that (at least for us) scramble tps isn't a good indicator of cross speed. My cross-F2L transition sucks, so if anything, I would guess that my cross tps is proportionately faster than yours to make up for that pause. It would be interesting to do ao50 cross rather than cross+1 to eliminate the transition (my PB is 3.3 but probably more like 3.7 on a normal day).


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## MarcelP (Mar 12, 2014)

billythekidd said:


> marcel, ik ben in: vlaamse en nederlandse speedcubinggemeensc)hap.



Hi! Nice to see you overhere too.

@Mark/Melody

I did the 25 move scramble Ao50.. Man, my elbows cramped up.. I got to 10.69 average. (2.33 TPS)


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## sneaklyfox (Mar 12, 2014)

mark49152 said:


> It would be interesting to do ao50 cross rather than cross+1 to eliminate the transition (my PB is 3.3 but probably more like 3.7 on a normal day).



Well, my cross Ao50 from when all this started was 1.73. Assuming an average 6-move cross means I have almost 3.5 TPS during cross, which is about the same as my scramble TPS.


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## MarcelP (Mar 13, 2014)

I just ordered this:

http://lightake.com/p/YJ-MoYu-Dian-Ma-3x3x3-Speed-Cube-Magic-Cube-Puzzle-57mm_m1214.html

Looks like a Gan III knock off  I like it allready LOL..


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## kcl (Mar 14, 2014)

So apparently I scramble really fast. I just did an ao12 of random state scrambling on cstimer and got 4.33..


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## sneaklyfox (Mar 14, 2014)

How many moves is that? Because I think cstimer doesn't do 25 moves by default. I just went to the site and it gave me a 19-move scramble.

followed by 20, 21, 17, 19...


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## Schmidt (Mar 14, 2014)

Haven't had a "long" session for a while, so I did 25 cubes in a row yesterday:


Spoiler



21.61, 26.33, 21.02, 47.30, 19.58, 28.21, 23.15, 22.11, 20.18, 24.88, 27.47, 22.19, 16.88, 24.33, 24.55, 23.97, 22.15, 23.30, 20.38, 21.80, *20.34, 19.16, 18.33, 20.91, 20.00

*number of times: 25/25
best time: 16.88
worst time: 47.30


current avg5: 19.83 (σ = 0.61)
*best avg5: 19.83 (σ = 0.61)*


current avg12: 21.63 (σ = 1.78)
best avg12: 21.47 (σ = 2.01)


session avg: 22.35 (σ = 2.26)
session mean: 23.21


good ending!

and I set my weekly comp. PB's for 4 and 5 this week. 
http://www.speedsolving.com/competitions/index.php?showRecords=127


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## Schmidt (Mar 14, 2014)

Made with cstimer and an iPad

```
-----time    Cross     F2L-----OLL.   PLL
 1    26.98    3.07    16.77    3.27    3.86
 2    29.22    3.67    15.05    4.84    5.66
 3    27.11    5.03    13.69    4.30    4.09
 4    31.97    8.71    15.86    3.69    3.71
 5    25.81    4.23    16.36    2.65    2.58
 6    20.72    3.27    11.09    2.54    3.81
 7    28.94    3.06    17.47    3.62    4.79
 8    20.72    3.39    11.18    2.20    3.95
 9    21.36    2.58    11.62    4.06    3.10
10    24.90    2.97    14.89    3.49    3.56
11    24.80    2.43    13.40    3.39    5.58
12    27.36    4.35    14.89    4.15    3.98
13    23.66    3.62    12.50    3.39    4.15
14    25.33    4.77    12.94    2.80    4.82
15    26.85    3.38    13.26    5.47    4.75
16    27.25    6.13    12.73    3.07    5.33
17    29.16    8.71    12.50    3.24    4.71
18    24.37    3.91    12.57    4.01    3.88
19    23.84    4.71    16.05    1.88    1.20
20    21.82    3.75    11.33    3.03    3.71
21    29.37    6.21    15.20    4.08    3.88
22    25.21    4.11    13.82    4.03    3.25
23    19.62    4.59    12.23    1.97    0.83
24    20.88    2.57    12.13    3.31    2.86
25    23.16    5.87    9.25     3.96    4.08
26    17.98    2.65    8.33     2.44    4.57
27    22.40    3.35    11.94    2.70    4.40
28    18.69    2.92    9.70     2.16    3.92
29    26.18    3.14    16.94    1.97    4.13
30    25.42    2.53    16.45    2.70    3.75
31    22.92    4.09    10.76    3.01    5.06
32    30.63    6.89    17.75    2.00    3.99
33    23.09    4.14    10.84    2.99    5.12
34    20.99    3.65    11.12    2.89    3.33
35    23.40    4.83    11.52    3.12    3.94
36    20.39    3.88    10.42    1.79    4.29
37    23.20    2.46    15.29    2.59    2.87
38    20.71    4.85    10.37    2.69    2.79
39    21.97    5.77    10.77    1.90    3.54
40    24.94    8.64    9.51     2.81    3.99
41    24.19    5.15    11.85    2.81    4.38
42    22.29    5.05    11.38    3.18    2.68
43    23.16    4.26    12.97    1.98    3.95
44    25.61    2.62    14.08    3.47    5.45
45    22.14    4.73    10.56    2.53    4.32
46    26.59    3.52    13.73    5.37    3.97
47    24.82    2.87    14.85    4.36    2.75
48    20.55    3.23    12.61    2.33    2.37
49    23.80    3.82    13.20    2.52    4.25
50    26.40    3.27    15.10    4.14    3.89
solve: 50/50
mean: 24.26    4.23    13.02    3.14    3.88
```
this time I removed my right hand to touch the iPad to make a split time, but I think it costs too much time, so next time I will try to move the whole cube and hand down to the iPad to press instead


----------



## mark49152 (Mar 15, 2014)

New PB full step single: 17.04

Scramble: U D R B' F' L' R2 F B2 L R' U2 L2 F' B' U F2 L U2 L R' B2 D B2 R2

// white down, orange front
R' D' R D2 F' D2 // 6
R U R' U R U' R L' U L // 10/16
R' U R U' R' U' R // 7/23
U' R U' R' L U' L' // 7/30
U R U R' // 4/34
U' r U2 R' U' R U' r' // 8/42
R U R' F' R U R' U' R' F R2 U' R' U // 14/56

First time I've ever been able to successfully reconstruct a PB. I tried doing the same solve a few times over and best was 11.71 which is the fastest I ever solved a cube 



sneaklyfox said:


> Well, my cross Ao50 from when all this started was 1.73. Assuming an average 6-move cross means I have almost 3.5 TPS during cross, which is about the same as my scramble TPS.


I accidentally deleted the spreadsheet I had those numbers in, but I think the conclusion is that my scrambling sucks compared to yours.



MarcelP said:


> I did the 25 move scramble Ao50.. Man, my elbows cramped up.. I got to 10.69 average. (2.33 TPS)


And my scrambling sucks compared to Marcel's. And it's pretty boring so I am going back to good old cross+1...

_Welcome to _
* ~~ Marcel's Bar ~~*
*Spring Festival of Cross+1*
_"Turn it fast and raise your glass!"_​
Updates as of 15 March. Last one to get a PB gets the beers in.


*Jolly punter**Starting point**Goal**PB progress*MarcelAo50 = 6.84Ao50 < 5 by summer6.38 - sub 5 might be tough but doable by summer. GO MARCEL! Melodyao50 = 3.99ao50 < 3.54.05 then 3.97 - been practicing planning the whole cross+1 during inspectionKennanao12 = 2.39, ao5 = 1.88ao12 < 22.04 ao12 grr, 2.00 ao12 grrr. Dude you need a new target.Markao50 = 7.03ao50 < 6 by 31 MarchFluctuated between 6.58-7.86. About as much lookahead as a mole. Raoulao19 = 6.91sub 6 by summer, sub 5 3 months later6.40 nice result, but wasn't on film, so didn't happen ajaydao12 = 4.44Sub 4 by AugustPipkicksarsemean = 5.74Sub 4.5


----------



## pipkiksass (Mar 15, 2014)

mark49152 said:


> New PB full step single: 17.04



Congrats Mark.

And totally forgot about cross + 1. Need to do some work on that this week - don't want to have to buy the first round! 

It's 'ass', not 'arse', by the way.


----------



## mark49152 (Mar 15, 2014)

pipkiksass said:


> It's 'ass', not 'arse', by the way.



Oh, and I thought I was helpfully correcting your spelling mistake


----------



## pipkiksass (Mar 15, 2014)

mark49152 said:


> Oh, and I thought I was helpfully correcting your spelling mistake



Lol!

It's a VERY long story, but intentionally mis-spelt. A trans-atlantic cultural tour-de-force covering 400+ years of British history and literature, emerging in an incidental South Park character. And, as we all know, "Cartoons kick ass"!


----------



## mark49152 (Mar 15, 2014)

pipkiksass said:


> It's a VERY long story, but intentionally mis-spelt. A trans-atlantic cultural tour-de-force covering 400+ years of British history and literature, emerging in an incidental South Park character. And, as we all know, "Cartoons kick ass"!


I see. Well, I shall de-correct it then on the basis that the arse being kicked is from the other side of the Atlantic. That's reasonable.

It will have to wait until I'm on my PC though, as Tapatalk kills tables.


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## MarcelP (Mar 15, 2014)

@Mark (I am on iPad and quote thingy sucks major) congrats on Pb single. I got a 24.xx on that scramble. I did not have a 6 move cross solution. On second try woth your cross solution I had a 20.xx. Nicely done. 

@Schmidt nice last 5 solves. We are at about same speed now. 

@all, did you guys see that Worlds 2015 might be in France? 

http://forum.speedcubingfrance.org/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=116

Would not it be nice to meet up there? I think that would be awesome..


----------



## AmazingCuber (Mar 15, 2014)

*Hi, Marcel from Holland here*

Wow, worlds in France!? Awesome! I really want this to happen and would love to go!


----------



## CriticalCubing (Mar 15, 2014)

France is nice, but I will need discount on Airfare and Hotels if I have to go...
Dosent anybody sponsor these ?? Airfare and Hotels ?


----------



## kcl (Mar 15, 2014)

*Hi, Marcel from Holland here*



CriticalCubing said:


> France is nice, but I will need discount on Airfare and Hotels if I have to go...
> Dosent anybody sponsor these ?? Airfare and Hotels ?



No..? Basically the only possible way to get "sponsored" is to be somebody who can break records in like 10 events.. So basically faz. 
Or if you win something like nationals iirc you get a paid trip to worlds. I could be confusing that with the yoyo world so don't quote me on that.


----------



## MarcelP (Mar 15, 2014)

kclejeune said:


> Basically the only possible way to get "sponsored" is to be somebody who can break records in like 10 events..



Ah.. someone like me? yeah.. I think I will be head to head with eighter Mats or Feliks in de 3X3 final


----------



## MeJoho (Mar 17, 2014)

I figured out that this would be the best place to make my first post.
So I don't ******* up by posting a totally wrong place 

Anyway, I'm from Denmark and I have 2 cubes. 
- The classic Rubik's Cube with stickers
- "The New Rubik's Cube", which I just bought and I like much more because it does not have stickers, and it's more smooth.

I'm here to get into the community and maybe learn a lot.

When I just bought the New Rubik's Cube it was to get rid of the frustration about the classic one,
but I am fully aware that I should buy a whole other brand if I want a really good speedcube. (I don't have a speedcube yet)

I'm thinking of getting the 3x3x3 Dayan GuHong V2 II from the SpeedPuzzles shop.
I just do the cube for fun, I'm really slow, but it would be nice to become better.

Ok, looking forward to read posts from you guys.


----------



## MarcelP (Mar 17, 2014)

MeJoho said:


> I'm thinking of getting the 3x3x3 Dayan GuHong V2 II from the SpeedPuzzles shop.
> I just do the cube for fun, I'm really slow, but it would be nice to become better.
> 
> Ok, looking forward to read posts from you guys.



Hi,

You have come to the right place  When I started out here I could barely solve a rubiks cube under two minutes (had a 1:30 PB or so). Now I average 24 secs. You can become as fast as you want. It is just a matter of dedication. If I may make a suggestion on the new cube, take a look at lightake.com and cubezz.com. I order there frequently. It is cheap and reliable. It will take about two weeks to get to you. I would suggest a YJ ChiLong, a Gan III, V2 57mm, MoYu LiYing over any Guhung I have ever seen.


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## MeJoho (Mar 18, 2014)

@MarcelP Thanks a lot for the tips! And really nice to hear that you have improved so much!
I really don't now what to buy.
Ofcourse I'm not very skilled but I would love to make a good buy for my first speedcube.

I would like to have one which is stickerless and has pop prevention.
I would also like to buy it from cubezz.com because of the free shipping.
Those you listed are either not stickerless or has info about pop prevention.
What to pick. HELP


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## kcl (Mar 18, 2014)

*Hi, Marcel from Holland here*

If you ever want to compete you should get a stickered cube. You would be good going with a Dayan Zhanchi or a Shengshou aurora.


----------



## MeJoho (Mar 18, 2014)

Is it because the surface doesn't make your fingers slip with a stickered one when it goes really fast? I bought a Dayan V Zhanchi
stickerless, just to try out a speedcube because it was so cheap. I guess I can just buy a new one with stickers if I ever need.


----------



## kcl (Mar 18, 2014)

MeJoho said:


> Is it because the surface doesn't make your fingers slip with a stickered one when it goes really fast? I bought a Dayan V Zhanchi
> stickerless, just to try out a speedcube because it was so cheap. I guess I can just buy a new one with stickers if I ever need.



Yeah, that's the cube I started on!


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## cubizh (Mar 18, 2014)

MeJoho said:


> Is it because the surface doesn't make your fingers slip with a stickered one when it goes really fast?


No, it is because the official competitions follow a set of regulations that currently do not permite stickerless cubes to be used. (Regulation 3h2)

For the complete list, see here: https://www.worldcubeassociation.org/regulations/

Also, since you are from Denmark, I suggest you attend the European Championships this year, which take place in Roskilde.
You can meet a lot of cubers, learn a lot of new things and see the action close to home.
More information here: http://competition.odderen.dk/Euro2014/


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## MeJoho (Mar 19, 2014)

wow thanks a lot both of you.
Sadly I will have to pay more for crossing the bridge to Roskilde than
entering the actual event. hmmm
Maybe I can work it out somehow.


----------



## MarcelP (Mar 19, 2014)

MeJoho said:


> @MarcelP Thanks a lot for the tips! And really nice to hear that you have improved so much!
> I really don't now what to buy.
> Ofcourse I'm not very skilled but I would love to make a good buy for my first speedcube.
> 
> ...



Go for this one: http://cubezz.com/Buy-4420-YJ+YuLong+3x3x3+Stickerless+Magic+Cube+Colored.html  If you really like it (most people loves these cubes) you can order in black or white later to have a competition legal one.


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## MarcelP (Mar 19, 2014)

It took a while but finally I had a single PB..



Spoiler



13.30 R2 U L2 D' F2 U2 F2 U2 R2 D' F2 L R2 F' U R2 D B L' D U'

x2
L' D' L x F' R' U R' F R //Cross( I got to stop doing 8+ moves on cross)
D2 U' x L' U L //F2L 1
U' R' U' R //F2L 2
U' R U R' U R U' R' //F2L 3
x' U2 L' U L //F2L 4
U R U R' U' R' F R F' // OLL
x' R2 U' R' U' R U R U R U' R //PLL

52 moves 3.9 TPS


Cube: MoYu LiYing with standard stickers
[video=youtube_share;8evBMCCynp4]http://youtu.be/8evBMCCynp4[/video]


----------



## mark49152 (Mar 19, 2014)

Nice one Marcel!


----------



## MarcelP (Mar 19, 2014)

mark49152 said:


> Nice one Marcel!



Thanks! I tried to do it a few times more to maybe get a sub 10 (like you did on your PB solve). But you know what? I can't even get sub 14 LOL.. That was a perfect solve for me I guess.


----------



## mark49152 (Mar 19, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> Thanks! I tried to do it a few times more to maybe get a sub 10 (like you did on your PB solve). But you know what? I can't even get sub 14 LOL.. That was a perfect solve for me I guess.



LOL... that's bizarre!


----------



## MarcelP (Mar 19, 2014)

mark49152 said:


> LOL... that's bizarre!



Yeah, even if you look at the video, I locked up with the PLL and had to touch the spacebar twice before the timer actually stopped. But all the things that went right where that my eyes where (unintentionally) looking at the pieces that I could slot immediatly. So there where no pauzes for finding 'what to do'. It clearly shows looking ahead is the best way to go (for me).


----------



## sneaklyfox (Mar 19, 2014)

Nice job on new PB!! By how much did you beat your previous PB?


----------



## MarcelP (Mar 20, 2014)

sneaklyfox said:


> Nice job on new PB!! By how much did you beat your previous PB?



Previous was 13.69


----------



## Schmidt (Mar 20, 2014)

My Weekly entry
2x2x2 http://youtu.be/0faQ8XRFZW4
3x3x3 http://youtu.be/5slP_jA2pJU
pyra http://youtu.be/jGR7tpKacYs
2-3-4 relay http://youtu.be/SVF8fmpEW6g
OH http://youtu.be/vAHQvVYlMvM

playlist? http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLTXoXnFtINoAc_QHd3F5ZE4UyrwVyHtLU


----------



## MarcelP (Mar 20, 2014)

Schmidt said:


> My Weekly entry
> 2x2x2 http://youtu.be/0faQ8XRFZW4
> 3x3x3 http://youtu.be/5slP_jA2pJU
> pyra http://youtu.be/jGR7tpKacYs
> ...



Nice! I tried to interpreted your 3x3 solves. I think your cross is slower than mine. Your F2L little slower but OLL and PLL way faster than mine. Could you do a Ao25 or 50 cross +1 to see what you are doing there?


----------



## Schmidt (Mar 20, 2014)

I will do it this weekend.

my guess is 8.50


----------



## Schmidt (Mar 21, 2014)

```
solves/total: 50/50, Mean: 6.63       
best: 3.49 | worst: 12.90

                  current              best
mean of 3    6.36 (σ=0.95)    4.55 (σ=0.97)
avg of 5     6.17 (σ=0.11)    5.19 (σ=0.35)
avg of 12    7.37 (σ=1.30)    5.61 (σ=0.55)
avg of 50    6.53 (σ=1.24)    6.53 (σ=1.24)
```

this was done with a cross+1 cube


----------



## MarcelP (Mar 21, 2014)

Ok, 6.63 is good but you could easily improve that  Btw, I noticed you have very bad OH technique but still get great times. I suspect if you put some effort in better OH turning technique your times will be even better. I stopped OH after getting a sub 2 (minute) official solve. I am not that fond of OH.  Maybe it is just because I totally suck at OH.


----------



## Schmidt (Mar 21, 2014)

```
Cross+1,rest of F2L,LL
```


```
P.1    P.2    P.3
1    37.57    9.41    19.87    8.29
2    20.44    7.63    6.93    5.88
3    21.38    6.05    9.28    6.06
4    29.22    6.10    15.80    7.32
5    23.21    8.57    8.24    6.40
6    23.86    7.09    9.70    7.07
7    22.62    6.98    10.01    5.63
8    21.70    7.17    7.31    7.22
9    23.15    9.38    7.30    6.47
10    18.32  4.09    8.61    5.63
11    20.55  5.27    10.76    4.53
12    25.92  6.01    13.02    6.89
13    24.63  5.52    11.16    7.94
14    20.77  7.78    7.62    5.37
15    26.62  10.71.    8.65    7.26
16    23.78  6.22    9.48    8.08
17    20.00  4.17    8.76    7.07
18    23.00  7.33    9.26    6.41
19    32.48  9.29    13.67    9.51
20    27.90  11.69    9.08    7.14
21    20.97  5.39    8.74    6.84
22    20.27  6.46    8.58    5.23
23    24.43  5.41    11.37    7.65
24    22.71  7.38    9.18    6.15
25    23.84  7.29    8.93    7.62
26    22.21  5.79    7.63    8.80
27    25.02  7.74    11.28    6.01
28    21.14  7.20    8.73    5.20
29    24.89  7.01    9.83    8.04
30    28.41  12.57    9.55    6.29
31    21.06  6.88    10.33    3.85
32    21.09  6.31    8.44    6.34
33    29.71  7.41    16.10    6.21
34    19.21  6.40    6.64    6.17
35    28.24  6.79    12.85    8.61
36    30.72  8.87    11.35    10.50
37    20.70  6.56    7.08    7.06
38    20.41  4.14    8.54    7.72
39    32.98  16.10    9.53    7.35
40    25.65   9.75    8.03    7.88
41    19.00   4.85    8.73    5.43
42    23.34   6.86    10.35    6.12
43    21.30   5.65    9.47    6.17
44    33.39   6.40    11.17    15.82
45    24.45   6.93    8.62    8.90
46    24.02   6.82    9.84    7.37
47    21.50   7.17    9.18    5.15
48    22.30   6.11    8.16    8.03
49    19.14   6.08    8.15    4.91
50    21.89   7.15    8.22    6.53
solve: 50/50
mean: 24.02    7.24    9.78    7.00
```


----------



## mark49152 (Mar 21, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> Ok, 6.63 is good but you could easily improve that


Yeah unless you are planning your pair in inspection, using a cross+1 cube probably puts you at a disadvantage because with a fully stickered cube you can choose an easier pair if you spot one.


----------



## Schmidt (Mar 21, 2014)

Nice scramble from race to sub 20


Spoiler



L2 B2 F2 D2 F2 L' B2 L' B2 F D' F' U' L' R2 D2 R2 F' R2
Z2
R2 D 
L U2 L2 U' L
R U' R' d L' U' L U' L' U L
U' R U' R' U R U' R'
y R U' R' U' R U2 R' U R U' R' 
R U2 R2 U' R2 U' R2 U2 R 
U'


I got 15.90 on it, but tried it a few times more and got sub 10


----------



## MarcelP (Mar 22, 2014)

Schmidt said:


> Nice scramble from race to sub 20
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> ...



I had a 18.28 with a different (longer) solution. Nice scramble 
EDIT: This was before coffey, first solve of the day. I might try to sub 10 this also later this weekend.


----------



## mark49152 (Mar 22, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> I had a 18.28 with a different (longer) solution. Nice scramble
> EDIT: This was before coffey, first solve of the day. I might try to sub 10 this also later this weekend.


13.52 after about 4 attempts. Nice scramble indeed!


----------



## MarcelP (Mar 22, 2014)

mark49152 said:


> 13.52 after about 4 attempts. Nice scramble indeed!



I think I might get today my first sub 10. If I succeed I will post a video..


----------



## Schmidt (Mar 22, 2014)

10.46 is the best I could get right now.
http://youtu.be/gV7jdAz12qw


----------



## sneaklyfox (Mar 22, 2014)

Schmidt said:


> Nice scramble from race to sub 20
> L2 B2 F2 D2 F2 L' B2 L' B2 F D' F' U' L' R2 D2 R2 F' R2
> Z2
> R2 D
> ...



fixed


----------



## kcl (Mar 22, 2014)

*Hi, Marcel from Holland here*

Woah that's an awesome scramble.. 7.53 first solve of today 

I'll try and reconstruct what I did.

L2 B2 F2 D2 F2 L' B2 L' B2 F D' F' U' L' R2 D2 R2 F' R2

z2// inspection
R2 D// cross
R U' R' U R U2 R' L U' L'// first pair 
L' U2 L U' L' U L// second pair
U R' U2 R y U' L' U L// third pair
y L' U L// fourth pair
r U R' U R U2 r'// OLL
R U R' F' R U2 R' U2 R' F R U R U2 R' U2// PLL

51/7.53= 6.77 STPS
53/7.53= 7.04 ETPS


----------



## MarcelP (Mar 22, 2014)

Schmidt said:


> 10.46 is the best I could get right now.
> http://youtu.be/gV7jdAz12qw



I am so much more cooler than you... LOL.

Kidding aside. I got a sub 10 on my 15 th solve. But then it took me 78 attemts to get it on film. Once I had one sub 10 on film, many followed. I could only sub with with MoYu Weilong V2, MoYu LiYing and ShengShou Aurora. All my other cubes where having problems even getting sub 11.

[video=youtube_share;elb_FTa0Q4o]http://youtu.be/elb_FTa0Q4o[/video]


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## Schmidt (Mar 22, 2014)

Mine was stack matted! You started and stopped with your cube in hand


----------



## MarcelP (Mar 22, 2014)

Schmidt said:


> Mine was stack matted! You started and stopped with your cube in hand



All mine stackmatteds where sub 9 and I did not really want to embarras you.


----------



## Schmidt (Mar 22, 2014)

You're such a gentleman


----------



## MarcelP (Mar 22, 2014)

Schmidt said:


> You're such a gentleman




LOL, Tomorrow a new challange?

F' B2 R' D' F2 R L B R' U2 D2 R2 B' R2 B2 U2 R2 D2 L2 F' (from this  topic).

Let's try to sub 9 that?


----------



## sneaklyfox (Mar 23, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> LOL, Tomorrow a new challange?
> 
> F' B2 R' D' F2 R L B R' U2 D2 R2 B' R2 B2 U2 R2 D2 L2 F' (from this  topic).
> 
> Let's try to sub 9 that?



I'd like to see you guys sub-9 that. After practicing some, my best is 6.21. I'm disappointed that I can't sub-6 it...


----------



## kcl (Mar 23, 2014)

sneaklyfox said:


> I'd like to see you guys sub-9 that. After practicing some, my best is 6.21. I'm disappointed that I can't sub-6 it...



Whaaa? You're using the Y perm solution?


----------



## sneaklyfox (Mar 23, 2014)

kclejeune said:


> Whaaa? You're using the Y perm solution?



Yeah. I blame my milk brain. I was just having poor execution again and again. 6.x whenever I had decently good execution. Maybe I should try again tomorrow.


----------



## Schmidt (Mar 23, 2014)

10.46 again 
http://youtu.be/zqlr6LgwOSc


----------



## MarcelP (Mar 23, 2014)

kclejeune said:


> Whaaa? You're using the Y perm solution?



I have not touched a cube today. But what solution must I use?


----------



## MarcelP (Mar 23, 2014)

Schmidt said:


> 10.46 again
> http://youtu.be/zqlr6LgwOSc



Looks very fast. I doubt I will beat that. 

EDIT: I got one 10.71 on video in 15 tries... I have no time to get that sub 10 today


----------



## Schmidt (Mar 23, 2014)

9.53
http://youtu.be/SIi5UOJA0UU


----------



## MarcelP (Mar 23, 2014)

Schmidt said:


> 9.53
> http://youtu.be/SIi5UOJA0UU



Nice, I got to 10.70 but have to leave for family visit..


----------



## ThomasJE (Mar 23, 2014)

Marcel: Have you been following the T20 cricket?
http://www.espncricinfo.com/world-t20/engine/match/682919.html


----------



## moralsh (Mar 23, 2014)

wow, I'm just not cut for prepared solves 

Got a 17.xx on my first try, then down to 13.20 in 4 more, then a big pause.

I decided to try it again this evening and did 4 different solves on the same scramble, how weird is that? And no, my times didn't improve. I'm going to watch some of your videos to decide if I'm plain stupid or plain slow, hehe.


----------



## mark49152 (Mar 24, 2014)

My PB ao50 is 24.35. On each of the last 3 days, I did an ao50 and got 24.36. Freaky...


----------



## sneaklyfox (Mar 24, 2014)

mark49152 said:


> My PB ao50 is 24.35. On each of the last 3 days, I did an ao50 and got 24.36. Freaky...



Wow, yeah...


----------



## MarcelP (Mar 24, 2014)

ThomasJE said:


> Marcel: Have you been following the T20 cricket?
> http://www.espncricinfo.com/world-t20/engine/match/682919.html


LOL, no I am not much of a sports fan. Thanks for showing though.. 



moralsh said:


> wow, I'm just not cut for prepared solves
> 
> Got a 17.xx on my first try, then down to 13.20 in 4 more, then a big pause.
> 
> I decided to try it again this evening and did 4 different solves on the same scramble, how weird is that? And no, my times didn't improve. I'm going to watch some of your videos to decide if I'm plain stupid or plain slow, hehe.



Well, if you got A 17.XX on your first try then you are not slow  Prepared solves are just harder than you think. There is just a speed limit to every person I guess. I am also slower than 90% of the people on this forum. 



mark49152 said:


> My PB ao50 is 24.35. On each of the last 3 days, I did an ao50 and got 24.36. Freaky...



LOL.. the cube gods are messing with you. Nice progress btw. We are almost at same speed.


----------



## kcl (Mar 24, 2014)

You are not slower than 90% of people on this forum haha. I'd say you're near the top half for sure. There aren't that many people sub 10, but there's a ton of people sup 30.


----------



## MarcelP (Mar 24, 2014)

kclejeune said:


> You are not slower than 90% of people on this forum haha. I'd say you're near the top half for sure. There aren't that many people sub 10, but there's a ton of people sup 30.



Yeah but I am more of a sub 30 than a sub 10 person. LOL. This scramble from Schmidt was the first time ever for me to get sub 10 solves.


----------



## AmazingCuber (Mar 24, 2014)

So far I love this cube as much as you do . . .


----------



## MarcelP (Mar 24, 2014)

Very nice video. I wish I had your 'review' skills.


----------



## AmazingCuber (Mar 24, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> Very nice video. I wish I had your 'review' skills.



Thanks a lot! 
Just like everything though, these skills don't just come. Making films has been a big hobby for years and I have done much with it. Also, videos take a very long time (10 hours). So in other words, you can do it too if you put your head to it!


----------



## pipkiksass (Mar 25, 2014)

In other news, I had my first single PB in about 3 months today - 12.57 with an (unforced) OLL skip!

Inspired by Marcel's 13.30...

But mine isn't on film, so did it not happen? ;-)


----------



## sneaklyfox (Mar 25, 2014)

Nice, pip! Well, according to video documentation, Marcel is faster than me. I think my fastest solve on cam is 15.xx from my slow turning video. Maybe it's time to make a new video. Sub-15 Ao5, you think?


----------



## pipkiksass (Mar 25, 2014)

sneaklyfox said:


> Nice, pip! Well, according to video documentation, Marcel is faster than me. I think my fastest solve on cam is 15.xx from my slow turning video. Maybe it's time to make a new video. Sub-15 Ao5, you think?



Yes please... 10.0x single optional! ;-)


----------



## kcl (Mar 25, 2014)

sneaklyfox said:


> Nice, pip! Well, according to video documentation, Marcel is faster than me. I think my fastest solve on cam is 15.xx from my slow turning video. Maybe it's time to make a new video. Sub-15 Ao5, you think?



No no, sub 14 preee


----------



## pipkiksass (Mar 26, 2014)

kclejeune said:


> No no, sub 14 preee



What happened to your Ao12 cross+1 video Kennan?

Prrreeeeeeeee


----------



## kcl (Mar 26, 2014)

pipkiksass said:


> What happened to your Ao12 cross+1 video Kennan?
> 
> Prrreeeeeeeee



oh wow.. Blanked on this. Take your pick, cross+1 ao12 on video or me typing my solutions out for 12 scrambles. I unfortunately don't have time to reconstruct 12 from a video haha.


----------



## mark49152 (Mar 26, 2014)

More PB crushing today! Was on fire so extended my usual ao50 to an ao100. Ao100 = 24.00, bao50 = 23.55, bao12 = 22.5


----------



## moralsh (Mar 26, 2014)

Speaking of PB crushing...

and speaking of videos, I haven't anything uploaded under 30 seconds so I'm the worst of you all, ha!


----------



## MarcelP (Mar 26, 2014)

mark49152 said:


> More PB crushing today! Was on fire so extended my usual ao50 to an ao100. Ao100 = 24.00, bao50 = 23.55, bao12 = 22.5


WHOAAAA!! That is insane!! Mark you are doing awesome!! Great progress man! Keep it up.. Hopefully will your plateau come only when you are sub 20  (I had a 6 months plateau at about 26 secs average)



pipkiksass said:


> In other news, I had my first single PB in about 3 months today - 12.57 with an (unforced) OLL skip!
> 
> Inspired by Marcel's 13.30...
> 
> But mine isn't on film, so did it not happen? ;-)



LOL.. Nope..didn't happen.. Still congrats man!



sneaklyfox said:


> Nice, pip! Well, according to video documentation, Marcel is faster than me. I think my fastest solve on cam is 15.xx from my slow turning video. Maybe it's time to make a new video. Sub-15 Ao5, you think?



Well yeah, but you had a 13.xx single on your first competition right? I would love to see a cool Ao5 of you Melody!


----------



## MarcelP (Mar 26, 2014)

Inspired by Mark's progress I did two Ao50 today. Both where 23.XX (low).. I did them with my Weilong V2. I considder that my new main. Before I could not get any decent average with any Weilong. But after I did the sub 10 video I realised that it goes easy with a Weilong and very hard with any other cube. So I used nothing but Weilong V2 for a few days. And finally I start to get about the same averages with my Weilong. I will continue for a while with the Weilong. I really needed to get used to the speed of the cube. I still miss the non locky/catch of the LiYing and Gan III though. That fit's my drunken monkey style better. But I realise now that Weilong is needed to get sub 10 LOL..

I got a nice 21 secs average on video doing the Ao50's. I performed two wrong PLL's in there so technically it is a DNF 

I finished with a whopping full step 15.06  I should get more of these.. While 17.XX are becomming more common, 15 and 16's are very rare..

EDIT: As it turned out that 15.06 was my scramble from my single PB. I had placed my first Ao50 in a text file and imported for the next Ao50. I was planning to do the two Ao50 with different cubes to see if I am slower on the Weilong. There were scrambles from a previous session in the file. LOL.. so the 15.06 was not that special..


----------



## MarcelP (Mar 26, 2014)

@Mark,

I think my last layer is slower than yours. Slower than Schmidts for sure. I just did an Ao12 to see how fast my last layer is. Could you (and anyone else who care to test their last layer) do these scrambles and tell me your times:



Spoiler



Fridrich - OLL training
Mar 26, 2014 6:21:09 PM - 6:26:26 PM

Mean: 6.90
Average: 6.88
Best time: 5.45
Median: 6.70
Worst time: 8.59
Standard deviation: 0.86

Best average of 5: 6.42
2-6 - 6.71 (5.45) 6.04 6.50 (7.17)

Best average of 12: 6.88
1-12 - (8.59) 6.71 (5.45) 6.04 6.50 7.17 7.00 7.93 6.68 6.31 8.04 6.42

1. 8.59 U2 F2 U' F2 R2 D B2 D B2 D2 R' U2 B' R B R' U2 R'
2. 6.71 U2 L2 F2 U F2 U L2 U' L2 U' L' F U L F' L' U' L'
3. 5.45 R2 D B2 U' B2 R2 D' F2 U B2 F2 R' U R B U' L' B L2 U2 L'
4. 6.04 U2 F2 L2 D R2 D' L2 D R2 D' F' U R U' R' F'
5. 6.50 U2 L2 B2 U F2 U' B2 U F2 D U' L' U L D' L' U' L'
6. 7.17 L2 D2 R2 D' F2 D' L2 D' B2 L2 D' B R B' D2 U' F2 L' U' L'
7. 7.00 D2 L2 D2 R2 U L2 F2 D F2 L2 U F L2 F R L2 F' R B2
8. 7.93 B2 D' B2 U' B2 D2 F2 D R2 B2 R2 F L' F2 R F R2 U2 F2 L'
9. 6.68 F2 L2 U L2 U2 R2 D' B2 D R2 U2 R' F' R U' F2 L' F L'
10. 6.31 F2 L2 D2 R2 D' L2 D R2 D' L2 D R' B' R D2 L2 F U2 F
11. 8.04 U' L2 F2 U' L2 D2 B2 R2 U' R2 B2 R B U' R' D2 L F' U' L'
12. 6.42 F2 U' R2 D2 L2 B2 D L2 D R2 U2 F' U L' U2 L U' F


----------



## pipkiksass (Mar 26, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> @Mark,
> 
> I think my last layer is slower than yours. Slower than Schmidts for sure. I just did an Ao12 to see how fast my last layer is. Could you (and anyone else who care to test their last layer) do these scrambles and tell me your times:
> 
> ...



I'll try this in a bit - never done any work on my last layer!

Do you inspect for LL scrambles? How about rotating before timer starts?


----------



## MarcelP (Mar 26, 2014)

pipkiksass said:


> I'll try this in a bit - never done any work on my last layer!
> 
> Do you inspect for LL scrambles? How about rotating before timer starts?


I hardly inspect, but you can inspect if you want. But no rotation. In my PPT I set inspection time 'Off'.


----------



## kcl (Mar 26, 2014)

2.60, 2.75, 2.85, 2.55, 3.25, 3.54, 3.47, (3.63), 3.13, (2.40), 3.25, 2.80= 3.02 ao12
faster than my normal LL, there were some easy ones in there.


----------



## pipkiksass (Mar 26, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> I hardly inspect, but you can inspect if you want. But no rotation. In my PPT I set inspection time 'Off'.



Thanks - will do this tonight. Over the next few weeks I'll be trying to learn my remaining OLLs - I'll be interested to see how much difference there is between my 2-look and 1-look OLL times.


----------



## MarcelP (Mar 26, 2014)

kclejeune said:


> 2.60, 2.75, 2.85, 2.55, 3.25, 3.54, 3.47, (3.63), 3.13, (2.40), 3.25, 2.80= 3.02 ao12
> faster than my normal LL, there were some easy ones in there.



Wow.. I wish I could do that... really.. I would be sooo sub 20.


----------



## TDM (Mar 26, 2014)

kclejeune said:


> 2.60, 2.75, 2.85, 2.55, 3.25, 3.54, 3.47, (3.63), 3.13, (2.40), 3.25, 2.80= 3.02 ao12
> faster than my normal LL, there were some easy ones in there.


Wow, that's fast... I just tried a LL Ao12 (I average ~15) and got this:
6.95, 5.97, 7.65, 6.74, 3.00[ELL], 5.17, 5.18, 7.03, 6.69, 6.59, 3.63[2l2GLL], 7.91 = *6.16*

5. (3.00[ELL]) R2 F2 R2 U2 R2 F2 R2 D' U' L2 D L' R F' L2 F L R'
11. 3.63[2l2GLL] L2 F' D2 B' D2 F' D2 F D2 L2 F U' F U' B F'

These were the only easy ones there; all others were normal. No inspection. Is my LL particularly slow for my speed? I do so many F2L tricks I think my F2L is getting too fast (at least when I can actually look ahead...). I've had one solve before with a sub-5 F2L and it was still sup-13.


----------



## kcl (Mar 26, 2014)

TDM said:


> Wow, that's fast... I just tried a LL Ao12 (I average ~15) and got this:
> 6.95, 5.97, 7.65, 6.74, 3.00[ELL], 5.17, 5.18, 7.03, 6.69, 6.59, 3.63[2l2GLL], 7.91 = *6.16*
> 
> 5. (3.00[ELL]) R2 F2 R2 U2 R2 F2 R2 D' U' L2 D L' R F' L2 F L R'
> ...



Sounds like LL is your weak spot, it's the same for me.


----------



## MarcelP (Mar 26, 2014)

TDM said:


> Wow, that's fast... I just tried a LL Ao12 (I average ~15) and got this:
> 6.95, 5.97, 7.65, 6.74, 3.00[ELL], 5.17, 5.18, 7.03, 6.69, 6.59, 3.63[2l2GLL], 7.91 = *6.16*
> 
> 5. (3.00[ELL]) R2 F2 R2 U2 R2 F2 R2 D' U' L2 D L' R F' L2 F L R'
> ...



My score was 6.90 and I average 23. Looks like you should be faster on LL right?


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## TDM (Mar 26, 2014)

kclejeune said:


> Sounds like LL is your weak spot, it's the same for me.


lol, really? I thought something like 4 seconds would be good enough at your speed, and even if 3 was faster than average I can't imagine easy scrambles making _that_ much of a difference, so I'd guess 4 would be what you average.


MarcelP said:


> My score was 6.90 and I average 23. Looks like you should be faster on LL right?


Yes... but I'm not entirely sure if OLL or PLL is worse for me. My OLL is still half 2-look, but my PLL still feels as if it's the weakest part of my solves. I was going to upload an average and post it in the solve critique thread as soon as I can find a good camera angle... only problem is that's hard in my room. I might have to do it somewhere else.


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## kcl (Mar 26, 2014)

TDM said:


> lol, really? I thought something like 4 seconds would be good enough at your speed, and even if 3 was faster than average I can't imagine easy scrambles making _that_ much of a difference, so I'd guess 4 would be what you average.
> 
> Yes... but I'm not entirely sure if OLL or PLL is worse for me. My OLL is still half 2-look, but my PLL still feels as if it's the weakest part of my solves. I was going to upload an average and post it in the solve critique thread as soon as I can find a good camera angle... only problem is that's hard in my room. I might have to do it somewhere else.



No haha. My last layer is hardly even sub 4 most of the time. I average just barely sub 10, my f2l is 5-6 seconds. I know I can shave a bit off of my LL.


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## Schmidt (Mar 26, 2014)

i really need to work on my cross
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=llDV-RoqO4k


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## TDM (Mar 26, 2014)

kclejeune said:


> No haha. My last layer is hardly even sub 4 most of the time. I average just barely sub 10, my f2l is 5-6 seconds. I know I can shave a bit off of my LL.


Oh I thought you averaged 11-12 :fp In that case you definitely should improve LL.


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## kcl (Mar 26, 2014)

TDM said:


> Oh I thought you averaged 11-12 :fp In that case you definitely should improve LL.



I did XD 

I dropped over a second in the last month. It's pretty crazy.


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## TDM (Mar 26, 2014)

kclejeune said:


> I did XD
> 
> I dropped over a second in the last month. It's pretty crazy.


Same... after no improvement for months. I don't improve consistently, but instea in sudden jumps of ~1.5 seconds every couple of months. It's been like that since I was averaging 23. Because of the gaps I improve slower than you... maybe if you stop cubing for half a year I could catch up?


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## kcl (Mar 26, 2014)

TDM said:


> Same... after no improvement for months. I don't improve consistently, but instea in sudden jumps of ~1.5 seconds every couple of months. It's been like that since I was averaging 23. Because of the gaps I improve slower than you... maybe if you stop cubing for half a year I could catch up?



Probably . You have patience that I don't for dedicated practice lol.


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## TDM (Mar 26, 2014)

kclejeune said:


> Probably . You have patience that I don't for dedicated practice lol.


I don't really do 'practise', I just solve repeatedly, like many people do. I know that both that and my physical dysabilities are slowing my improvement, but I don't really care about speed. I do improve, but the main reason why I do cubing is that it's something that I enjoy and (probably the only thing) I'm good at.


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## moralsh (Mar 26, 2014)

I'm definitely slower than you Marcel but our LL is somehow similar. Do you know full OLL? (I don't)
Ao12: 7.09
Best Ao5: 6.6
8.09, 8.20, 5.85, 5.87, 5.47, 11.36, 8.74, 6.91, 6.42, 4.40, 8.79, 8.51, 6.17


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## kcl (Mar 26, 2014)

TDM said:


> I don't really do 'practise', I just solve repeatedly, like many people do. I know that both that and my physical dysabilities are slowing my improvement, but I don't really care about speed. I do improve, but the main reason why I do cubing is that it's something that I enjoy and (probably the only thing) I'm good at.



Oh that's what I do too heh.. I basically improve faster than most because I do like 400 solves per day which is apparently not normal.


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## TDM (Mar 26, 2014)

kclejeune said:


> Oh that's what I do too heh.. I basically improve faster than most because I do like 400 solves per day which is apparently not normal.


That's not normal.


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## mark49152 (Mar 26, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> WHOAAAA!! That is insane!! Mark you are doing awesome!! Great progress man! Keep it up.. Hopefully will your plateau come only when you are sub 20  (I had a 6 months plateau at about 26 secs average)


Thanks dude. Yeah I was stuck at 32 for about 5 months and started to wonder if I could ever get past it. Now I've dropped from 28.5 to 23.5 in just over 2 months. Sooner or later I will hit another plateau but this time I will know it can be broken.



MarcelP said:


> @Mark,
> 
> I think my last layer is slower than yours. Slower than Schmidts for sure. I just did an Ao12 to see how fast my last layer is. Could you (and anyone else who care to test their last layer) do these scrambles and tell me your times:


Well, whaddaya know . 

Ao12 = 6.74, bao5 = 5.80
9.46, 6.45, 6.03, 4.91, (4.16), (10.48), 6.73, 7.82, 6.54, 5.40, 7.59, 6.47

Pretty lucky though, I have to admit. There were only two cases where I had to 2-look OLL (9.46 & 10.48) but I only know and use about 40 OLLs. As you know, I'm obsessed with systematic practice and my PB ao50 LL is 7.24.


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## pipkiksass (Mar 27, 2014)

So here's my effort at this:

Ao12: 6.11
Best Ao5: 5.15
Best time: 4.15
Worst time: 8.62

Here's the interesting bit:

Mean of 1-look times: 5.47
Mean of 2-look times: 7.28

So looks like 2-look OLLs add about 2 seconds per solve! 4/12 of these were 1-look cases I didn't know; one was a case I know, but I'm not smooth with the alg yet, and it gave me my slowest 1-look time. 

Definitely time to make a concerted effort at learning full OLL now. If it saves me 2 seconds every 3rd solve, it's got to be worth doing, right?



Spoiler



1. 8.62 (2-look OLL leaving V perm )
2. 5.16 (1-look)
3. 5.55 (1-look)
4. 4.74 (1-look)
5. 4.15 (1-look)
6. 6.46 (2-look)
7. 6.23 (1-look, but new alg)
8. 6.67 (2-look)
9. 7.35 (2-look)
10. 4.98 (1-look)
11. 7.48 (horrible 1-look)
12. 6.43 (1-look, lockup on PLL)



Edit: according to the systematic improvement thread, LL should be 38% of your solve, so around 7 seconds for me. I guess I'm pretty much on-track, but full OLL is my new (old) goal!


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## Phillip1847 (Mar 27, 2014)

Decided to do an ao100 of LL practice, and got a 5.35.
Bao12 4.812

I average like 19, so I think my LL might be a bit too fast, that is, my F2L is too slow.
Probably has to do with mostly full OLL. I have 2 cases to learn.


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## kcl (Mar 27, 2014)

*Hi, Marcel from Holland here*

4.78 LS+LL Ao12, 3.78 ao5. I think LS+LL is better than pure LL training. Pure LL allowed me to see CP during OLL and I think that's why it was faster. LS+LL doesn't give that advantage.


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## Phillip1847 (Mar 27, 2014)

pipkiksass said:


> (snip)
> Edit: according to the systematic improvement thread, LL should be 38% of your solve, so around 7 seconds for me. I guess I'm pretty much on-track, but full OLL is my new (old) goal!


With my LL I should be 14 seconds.
Dang, I need to get up to speed on F2L.


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## sneaklyfox (Mar 27, 2014)

Ummm... I tried this too.

Ao12 = 4.41
Best Ao5 = 4.08
Best = 3.42
Worst = 5.28
Times: 4.66, 4.22, 4.45, 3.58, 3.42, 4.45, 4.92, 5.28, 4.26, 4.76, 4.92, 3.84

Choked on all the A-perms even though they're among my fastest PLL. I still got sub-5 on an ugly N-perm. This is with full OLL. Apparently my LL is really good for my speed (or my F2L really sucks). If LL is supposed to be 38% of the solve, I should be averaging 11.6 on full solve!


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## MarcelP (Mar 27, 2014)

moralsh said:


> Speaking of PB crushing...
> 
> and speaking of videos, I haven't anything uploaded under 30 seconds so I'm the worst of you all, ha!



Well I missed this post entirely.. You have a faster average and faster single than me officially now  Good stuff Raoul!




kclejeune said:


> Oh that's what I do too heh.. I basically improve faster than most because I do like 400 solves per day which is apparently not normal.



I wish I could do that. That would definatly help my times.. I think on a good day I solve 200 solves. And some days none. I think on average between 50 and 60 solves daily.



sneaklyfox said:


> Ao12 = 4.41
> If LL is supposed to be 38% of the solve, I should be averaging 11.6 on full solve!



My LL is 30% of the solve (23 average and 6.9 LL Ao12), so I guess I am not that bad on LL. Still I doubt there is a lot of F2L to improve for me, but a heck a lot of LL. So I will start dedicated LL training for a month or so.. Maybe that will do the trick to get me sub 20


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## mark49152 (Mar 27, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> My LL is 30% of the solve (23 average and 6.9 LL Ao12), so I guess I am not that bad on LL. Still I doubt there is a lot of F2L to improve for me, but a heck a lot of LL. So I will start dedicated LL training for a month or so.. Maybe that will do the trick to get me sub 20


To get from 23 average to sub-20 based on dedicated LL training, you would have to almost HALVE your LL time.... hmmmm 

I'm in a similar situation - 23.5-25 averages with about 30% LL. My sub-20 plan is continued intensive F2L training for the following reasons:-

My LL is sub-20 speed already (requires sub-7.6)
A 20% improvement in F2L is worth more than double a 20% improvement in LL
A 20% improvement in F2L is easier to achieve as there are more pauses and transitions to optimize
A 20% improvement in F2L is easier to achieve as TPS is lower to start with
A 20% improvement in F2L would get me almost sub-20
My targets:-

Cross: 2.5 (currently 3.3)
Cross+1: 5 (currently 7)
Full F2L: 12.5 (currently 14.8)


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## MarcelP (Mar 27, 2014)

Nice targets  I need to work more on cross too..


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## mark49152 (Mar 27, 2014)

Yeah I am going to go back to cross+1 training for a while. That's where most of my F2L improvement potential is.


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## pipkiksass (Mar 27, 2014)

mark49152 said:


> Yeah I am going to go back to cross+1 training for a while. That's where most of my F2L improvement potential is.



Me too. I really need to do BLD cross and cross+1.

I'm going to use the little time i have for a bit more targeted practice - my plan is full OLL and any ability to look ahead during cross!

Based on last night, full OLL should take around .7 seconds off my average. Should take me under 18 seconds with plenty of room for improvement on cross and f2l. 
At the moment I don't always plan full cross, and certainly almost never have any idea where my first pair is coming from. I'm basically doing cross... 1, rather than cross+1! There's probably at least a second of potential for improvement there.


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## mark49152 (Mar 27, 2014)

OK... the Marcel's Bar cross+1 festival went quiet, so let's try a new event. The Marcel's Bar cross+1 competition! The rules are a bit like pub league football - you know, punching is allowed, beers at half time, etc. Here are scrambles for the first round. Closing time is 8am Sunday morning, just in time to catch the first train home.

1. U F2 U' B2 D' U2 B2 U R2 B2 F2 L' B D2 B2 U R U2 L' D' L 
2. U2 R D2 L D2 R2 U2 F2 L B2 U R' U' F D' L' F2 L2 B2 R2 
3. B R2 L' B U' D' F' L F' U' F2 R2 F2 B2 U D F2 D B2 
4. R L F R U2 B2 U' D2 L U2 L2 U2 B' U2 B R2 U2 D2 B' 
5. R B2 D2 L2 B' R D R L D' B2 L2 U F2 D' B2 U F2 R2 F2 
6. D B2 R2 D L2 R2 F2 U L2 F2 U2 R B D2 L2 B' F2 L D2 F' D' 
7. U2 R D B R2 L D2 F D' R F' L2 U2 L2 D2 F' B2 U2 B2 R2 U2 
8. D' R2 B2 U' R2 U B2 U' F2 U B2 R U2 R' D F R B' F R2 U 
9. R2 L' U' B U' B2 R' U L' F2 U2 L F2 B2 U2 F2 L2 D2 L 
10. F L2 R2 F U2 L2 F D2 F2 D2 F' L B2 L2 F' D' L2 B F' L F2 
11. R' L2 B D' F L2 F2 R' D' F R2 D2 B2 U F2 R2 F2 B2 D B2 U' 
12. B L2 U2 F' D2 R2 F R2 F R2 B' U B' L2 D' B R' D F U L'


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## MarcelP (Mar 27, 2014)

Schmidt said:


> i really need to work on my cross
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=llDV-RoqO4k



Why is the video called 'Finally sub 20?'


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## Schmidt (Mar 27, 2014)

It took me 26 tries to get one sub 20 on camera. I had a 20.08 and a 20.03 along the way


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## kcl (Mar 27, 2014)

Do we need video?


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## MarcelP (Mar 27, 2014)

Schmidt said:


> It took me 26 tries to get one sub 20 on camera. I had a 20.08 and a 20.03 along the way


Ah, I get about two or three sub 20's in every ao12. I am very pleased with that. 


kclejeune said:


> Do we need video?



Yes we do, you might find it not interesting, but I realy like seeing solves of people my speed.


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## mark49152 (Mar 28, 2014)

Marcel's Bar Cross+1 Comp Round 1
*Average: 5.89*
7.72, (3.03), 6.14, 5.87, 5.68, (7.83), 4.23, 6.14, 5.60, 5.88, 5.30, 6.33

A new cross+1 PB. Also got another 3x3 ao50 PB tonight - 23.40. Marcel, I'm catching you up...


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## sneaklyfox (Mar 28, 2014)

Cross+1 Round 1
Average: 4.02
3.38, (2.09), 4.85, (6.02), 4.35, 3.21, 4.21, 4.49, 3.79, 3.89, 4.17, 3.87

Oops, I forgot to practice cross+1. My whole family had colds starting about two weeks ago and finally I got the cold too. Yeah, that's my excuse...


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## MarcelP (Mar 28, 2014)

*Cross+1* *Round 1*

Mean: 6.31
Average: 6.50
Best time: 2.32
Median: 7.02
Worst time: 8.35
Standard deviation: 2.00

Best average of 5: 5.81
2-6 - (2.32) 7.51 6.87 (8.29) 3.05

Best average of 12: 6.50
1-12 - 7.16 *(2.32)* 7.51 6.87 8.29 *3.05 3.63* 7.47 6.57 7.71 6.75 (8.35)

Scramble 2 and 6 and 7 are outrageous.. Did you put them in to check if every one is using your scrambles truely? LOL


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## mark49152 (Mar 28, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> Scramble 2 and 6 and 7 are outrageous.. Did you put them in to check if every one is using your scrambles truely? LOL


LOL... No they are qqtimer random state scrambles. I actually rescrambled #2 because I couldn't believe it was so easy and thought I must have done it wrong


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## Schmidt (Mar 28, 2014)

6.08, (2.91), 6.61, 4.72, 6.63, 6.97,6.44, 5.21, 5.55, (7.80), 7.06, 4.77

best time: 2.91
worst time: 7.80

current avg5: 5.94 (σ = 0.98)
best avg5: 5.80 (σ = 0.97)

current avg12: 6.00 (σ = 0.88)
best avg12: 6.00 (σ = 0.88)

session avg: 6.00 (σ = 0.88)
session mean: 5.90


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## MarcelP (Mar 28, 2014)

Schmidt said:


> It took me 26 tries to get one sub 20 on camera. I had a 20.08 and a 20.03 along the way



I tried to film a sub 20 Mo3, but that almost never happens appearantly. The more I tried the slower my times became because of frustrastion LOL.. Still got a nice 16 on film:

4. 16.37 B2 D2 F2 U2 R2 D' B2 F2 D' L2 B2 L' B R2 B2 U2 R2 F2 U F2 U2

Cube MoYu LiYing
[video=youtube_share;qP88Ix0vGPQ]http://youtu.be/qP88Ix0vGPQ[/video]


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## sneaklyfox (Mar 28, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> *Cross+1* *Round 1*
> 
> Mean: 6.31
> Average: 6.50
> ...



Wow, your 6 and 7 were faster than mine...


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## MarcelP (Mar 28, 2014)

sneaklyfox said:


> Wow, your 6 and 7 were faster than mine...



The power of CN!  no 6 was green cross. No 7 was a full planned cross plus 1. A real easy white cross plus real easy first pair.

No 7: x2 y2 inspection
R' B' L F' L2 U L' U L U' L' // Xcross


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## Schmidt (Mar 28, 2014)

Spoiler: AO50



Average of 50: 22.34
1. 23.27 R2 D2 F' D2 R2 F' D2 L2 B U2 F2 R' B L F L D L F D' U' 
2. 24.80 F B D2 B2 U' R' U' L2 F' D' F L2 D2 B' R2 F D2 R2 F2 U2 
3. 19.19 U2 B' R2 D2 F2 R2 D2 F2 L2 B U2 R U' R2 D U' R' U' F' L' R' 
4. 22.05 U2 D' F2 U B' L' U2 F B' U' L2 F' R2 F2 L2 B' U2 L2 U2 B2 
5. 20.56 D2 R2 F' L2 B F' U2 F R2 F2 R2 D' R' B' D' F2 U2 R' U2 R2 
6. 19.93 L2 U2 L2 B D2 U2 B2 L2 U2 F' L2 D B U F' D R' B2 F R' F' 
7. 20.81 F2 R2 F U2 L2 F R2 F D2 L2 F U L2 R' B2 F2 D' U2 F2 R U2 
8. 20.05 U' D' R D' F2 B' U' F L' D2 F2 B R2 D2 F' R2 F' U2 F2 
9. 20.68 D' R2 B2 D2 R2 D2 R2 D' R2 F2 U B' R U F R D F2 R D' L2 
10. 21.84 B2 R2 F2 L2 D' R2 F2 D2 R2 D L' D2 L D' U2 B' L D' F2 
11. 21.91 F2 R2 L2 U B2 U D' L D' R2 B' L2 F D2 F' U2 B2 R2 U2 F' 
12. 19.84 B L2 B' R2 D2 B U2 F' D2 R2 B D' L F R D2 U L2 R F 
13. (28.02) D L2 D2 R' U2 B L2 U2 D B' D2 R' D2 B2 D2 R2 F2 L U2 D2 R2 
14. 22.50 D L F2 D' B D R' L' F R2 B2 D' R2 D R2 B2 D2 R2 U2 
15. 21.68 F2 R2 F2 R' D2 U2 R F2 D2 R2 F' L' D' F' R U L' R' F U 
16. 26.41 D2 B2 R2 D B2 U' B2 F2 D' R2 B D U R F D2 L' F R' D' 
17. 21.52 D2 L2 B L2 U2 L2 F2 D2 F R2 U2 L B2 R2 U B D L B' U2 R2 
18. 22.27 B2 F L2 F L2 U2 L2 B2 D2 R2 F R D B' R2 F2 R U L2 D L' 
19. 21.83 R2 U2 F2 R2 U L2 U' F2 L2 D' F2 R D' U' F' U' L' F' D' F2 
20. 22.44 U2 B' R2 F' L2 B R2 D2 U2 F U2 L' D' F2 R' B2 R F2 R' B' F2 
21. (16.53) R2 F2 R2 F2 R2 D' U2 F2 D' B2 R F D' L R' B' U R' B F 
22. 23.58 D R2 F2 D2 R2 D' U2 L2 F2 U2 F' D2 L D' L2 D F' L U2 F2 
23. 20.02 R2 D' B2 L2 R2 U' B2 F2 L2 R2 U' L D B2 F' U' L2 D' B R2 F' 
24. 25.00 L2 D2 B2 L2 B2 R2 D2 R2 D B2 D2 F' U' L' U' R D' L' D2 L B' 
25. 20.02 L2 U' L2 F2 D R2 B2 L2 R2 U' F2 L B' U L2 D2 U2 B' D2 F' D 
26. 21.40 D L2 R2 D2 R2 D B2 U L2 B2 R' F' R F2 L' D' R' U2 B' D2 F2 
27. 21.30 D R2 U' L2 F2 U' B2 U' B2 F2 D B' L F2 L' R U L' B F' L2 
28. 21.22 R2 F2 L2 R2 D' L2 F2 D' B2 D F2 L F D F D F' U R' B U' 
29. 24.21 B2 D' U' F2 R2 F2 U F2 D L2 U' L B U2 L' D B' F R' D' R2 
30. 21.96 U B2 U2 L2 B2 R2 F2 U' B2 D' F2 R F L' R F2 L2 U' R' B R2 
31. (31.16) F' U' R2 U' R U R2 L' F D' L2 F' B' D2 F D2 R2 B' D2 R2 U2 
32. 20.50 B U2 L2 D2 L2 F2 R2 B' D2 R2 F U L' D' B' F2 D2 R B2 U2 B' 
33. 23.06 F2 R2 U2 F2 L2 R2 U2 R2 F2 U' F2 L' F2 R' D' L' F' D' B' L' F2 
34. (19.02) U2 F L2 U2 F' R2 F' U2 B L2 D2 U' B L U B D2 R U2 B2 U 
35. 19.72 L2 B2 D2 L2 U' R2 B2 U F2 L2 U B L F' D L R' U' B L' U' 
36. 27.52 R2 F' R2 B' D2 B' D2 L2 F2 U2 B' U R' U2 B D2 L' F L 
37. 26.80 L D2 B2 R U2 R' U2 F2 U2 R' D L' D2 B2 U F' D2 U' B' R' 
38. 23.36 L' U2 B2 F2 R D2 B2 L F2 U2 R2 B F2 L2 R2 U' F' R2 D B2 
39. 25.33 B' D2 L2 B U2 B' L2 F' L2 F' D2 R U B' R' U' L U' R2 B R 
40. 24.66 U2 B R2 F2 L2 F2 U2 R2 F2 R2 F' R D' L2 U2 F2 R2 F R2 B' U 
41. (27.66) L U F U' B' L' D' F' L U B' D2 B' R2 F2 D2 R2 U2 R2 B2 U2 
42. 20.88 R F2 L2 F U2 L B2 D' L F' U2 R2 D R2 U R2 U2 B2 D' F2 D2 
43. 26.80 R' F2 R B2 L D2 F2 R' B2 R2 U2 B D2 F2 R D L' D2 B L' D 
44. 22.84 F2 D U' L2 D2 B2 L2 B2 D' B2 F2 L D2 L D' U B' D F L U' 
45. 24.88 U2 F U2 R2 D2 F R2 U2 B U2 F' U L R F' D F2 D' R B' L2 
46. 19.09 U2 D B L' D2 F U2 R' U L U' L2 U R2 D F2 U' L2 D L2 D2 
47. (18.96) D' L2 D' R2 D' R2 D2 F2 R2 D' L' F R2 U R2 D2 B' R2 B R B 
48. 21.22 L' R2 D2 L U2 F2 D2 L2 U2 L' R2 D' R2 B' R U L2 R D2 B' 
49. 21.03 B2 F2 D B2 D F2 D2 L2 U2 F2 L U' F2 R' D' U' L2 B D' F 
50. 22.81 U R2 F2 R2 F2 U R2 B2 D2 R2 B2 L' D R B' R F' U' F2 D' B2




best time: 16.53
worst time: 31.16
best avg5: 20.43 (σ = 0.33)
best avg12: 21.02 (σ = 0.98)
best avg50: 22.34 (σ = 2.17)


Spoiler: Time dist



16+: 1
17+: 0
18+: 1
19+: 6
20+: 8
21+: 11
22+: 7
23+: 4
24+: 4
25+: 3
26+: 4
27+: 2
28+: 1
29+: 0
30+: 0
31+: 1


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## MarcelP (Mar 28, 2014)

Schmidt said:


> Spoiler: AO50
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Nice! I like it that you have picked up practicing again. I don't like beating your times when you are not practicing.. LOL.


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## Schmidt (Mar 28, 2014)

Yeah, it might soon be time for a B.O.O.M (Battle of Old Men)
Still 40+ to enter, or should we allow some of the youngsters?


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## MarcelP (Mar 29, 2014)

Schmidt said:


> Yeah, it might soon be time for a B.O.O.M (Battle of Old Men)
> Still 40+ to enter, or should we allow some of the youngsters?



Yeah, let's do that next weekend, Saturday evening? 19:00 (GMT + 1)?


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## ThomasJE (Mar 29, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> Yeah, let's do that next weekend, Saturday evening? 19:00 (GMT + 1)?



I may join in *if* I have time... What scrambles will you use?


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## Schmidt (Mar 29, 2014)

Last time we used TTW with spectators 
http://www.speedsolving.com/forum/s...wisttheweb-com&p=875401&viewfull=1#post875401


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## sneaklyfox (Mar 29, 2014)

In 7 years you need to change the name (leave out the M) so I can join.


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## Schmidt (Mar 29, 2014)

Did anybody even congratulate you? If not, then we are sorry.


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## MarcelP (Mar 29, 2014)

ThomasJE said:


> I may join in *if* I have time... What scrambles will you use?


I would not mind at all if you solve slow  


Schmidt said:


> Last time we used TTW with spectators
> http://www.speedsolving.com/forum/s...wisttheweb-com&p=875401&viewfull=1#post875401


Ah I remember clearly. I had my first sub 25 ao50  These days it takes no effort.


sneaklyfox said:


> In 7 years you need to change the name (leave out the M) so I can join.



You of most people will be more than welcome ofcourse. But it will be like competing with little children for you. You have a league of your own ( 10 secs faster than us).


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## Schmidt (Mar 29, 2014)

sneaklyfox said:


> In 7 years you need to change the name (leave out the M) so I can join.



I just did some math; when you are 40+, some/most of us old men will be 50+


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## sneaklyfox (Mar 29, 2014)

Should be in the 30+ class like me, pip...


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## ThomasJE (Mar 29, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> I would not mind at all if you solve slow



It may not take that much to solve slow for me. The last session I did was on the 12th January according to gqtimer, so you may have a chance... I must practice... He cannot beat me...


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## sneaklyfox (Mar 29, 2014)

19:00 (GMT + 1)... is that about midnight for me (EST)?

Am I allowed to join with OH? I haven't done OH in ages so you guys will almost certainly be faster than me.


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## MarcelP (Mar 29, 2014)

Yeah, cool. You have a whole week to prepare.,


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## billythekidd (Mar 29, 2014)

hey kun je dit berichtje met mijn naam verwijderen aub? wanneer ik mijn naam type op google zie ik jou commentaar staan. Ik ben bezig mijn privéleven te beschermen


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## moralsh (Mar 29, 2014)

If I'm home I'll definitely join! but weekends are too unpredictable for me to know it a week earlier.

Melody, 19 here is 14 EST, IIRC


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## Schmidt (Mar 29, 2014)

Spoiler: TTW FTW



best avg 10/12 = 20.44
18.49 B2 U2 L2 R F U D F2 R U R' B L2 D F D F B U' L F2 L2 F2 R L'
21.85 R D2 B2 F2 L2 R2 U' F L R2 U2 F' L2 D2 L2 D2 L' D2 F' D' L' F B L2 R'
21.57 D2 R' F B L U2 B' R L B' L F D2 U' R' D' F2 D2 F' U2 R' F2 R2 F' D2
22.23 F B2 U B' F' D' L2 R' F U2 F U' D' R2 U R' B U D' R' U' R' L F' B
21.36 B2 L' U D B L' U' F' B' L' D R U' B' U2 B2 D2 B' L F R' U2 R2 L2 F'
19.30 U2 D F' R' D B F L' F2 R U B' D2 L' U2 R2 U F U' R' F2 R' U2 D2 B'
21.01 D B' L' R F2 R' L F' D2 L U' R B2 U F' B2 U' L F2 D' R L U' F2 L'
19.93 B2 R F2 R2 B' L' R' B2 L' D2 F B2 U' F' B L R D U2 L' B' R2 D2 R D'
20.78 F' R B2 D' L2 U2 L2 R2 U2 B' U R U2 L' U2 R U' R2 B2 R2 F U' R2 D L'
21.90 U D' R' D U2 B R' F R2 L2 B R' F2 U' F2 R' B D2 L D L' D' L2 B' F
18.18 F D2 F U2 F' L B F' D F D L2 U' L' U2 L2 D B' R2 U2 L R2 D L' B2
17.69 D2 L D U F U' R' F' D' U' B' L' R B L R2 F' U' D B2 D2 B D2 R2 D'


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## mark49152 (Mar 29, 2014)

I'd also like to join, but not sure if I'll be able. 6pm Saturday is usually busy with family stuff.


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## sneaklyfox (Mar 30, 2014)

moralsh said:


> If I'm home I'll definitely join! but weekends are too unpredictable for me to know it a week earlier.
> 
> Melody, 19 here is 14 EST, IIRC



Oops... I went the wrong way. Right so that's my 2pm on Saturday if I understand it correctly. I'll try to make it. I think my chances are good since that's naptime here.


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## sneaklyfox (Mar 30, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> Yeah, cool. You have a whole week to prepare.,



Yeah, I need that week. I'm really really out of OH practice. I forgot some of my PLLs.


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## MarcelP (Mar 30, 2014)

Wow, I smashed my Ao5 and Mo3 PB..


Ao5 17.22 (18.83) 
Mo3 16.93 (18.52)

The power of CN, only one white cross. two amazing orange crosses.

16. 17.17 D' B2 D' R2 F2 U' R2 D B2 D2 R2 F D2 F L D' B2 D' L F U2
17. 16.70 U R2 D2 U B2 U F2 L2 U2 B2 L2 B R U2 L' D' U' L2 B' R' B2 D2
18. 17.78 D2 L2 B2 R2 D F2 U R2 U F2 D' L B' L B R' U2 R2 B2 F' D'
19. 16.31 L2 D F2 L2 B2 F2 U F2 U2 L2 D' R B R B U2 B2 U2 F' D' L2 U'
20. 23.45 U L2 F2 D L2 D2 R2 F2 D' F2 U R F2 D B D' R' U B'

These where freak accidents since the whole session was Ao50 23.xx

Btw, Who uses this alg for OLL 34: R U R' U' x D' R' U R E' z'

It looks real sweet. Only the z' might mess with my look ahead for what PLL is comming. (I have been using (R U R' U') B' (R' F R F') B for half a year and it sucks major).


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## mark49152 (Mar 30, 2014)

Awesome job on the PBs! 



MarcelP said:


> Btw, Who uses this alg for OLL 34: R U R' U' x D' R' U R E' z'
> 
> It looks real sweet. Only the z' might mess with my look ahead for what PLL is comming. (I have been using (R U R' U') B' (R' F R F') B for half a year and it sucks major).



Looks like different fingering of the same alg. I do (R U R' U') B' (l' U l [F' B]). Everything after B' with left hand. Do B' with right ring finger while regripping left hand for the l', then push the U with left index, and finish with F' B as one move with left index/ring. Flows nicely enough for me.


----------



## sneaklyfox (Mar 31, 2014)

I basically do the same as mark but feels more like
R U R' U' f' z R' F R F' B
I think...


----------



## mark49152 (Mar 31, 2014)

*Marcel's Bar Cross+1 Comp*

*Round 1 results*
1. sneaklyfox 4.02
2. mark49152 5.89
3. Schmidt 6.00
4. Marcel 6.50

Congrats sneaklyfox!

*Round 2 scrambles*
1. F' D' F' U2 B2 U2 B' L2 D R' U2 F2 D2 R2 F' U2 L2 F U2 B2 D2 
2. R2 F' R' L' F' L' B2 U' R B D L2 U F2 L2 D' R2 D2 F2 D' L2 
3. D2 U2 F L2 F D2 F U2 F2 D2 R' U F' L' D R' F2 L2 R' D2 
4. L2 F R' B2 D2 F' L' D B' L' U2 L F2 L F2 D2 R B2 D2 L' 
5. D2 F U2 F R2 F2 R2 D2 U2 B U2 L F' D' B2 D2 L2 B' R' B2 F2 
6. F' L2 D2 F' D2 F' D2 U2 B' D R B' L2 U' F D2 L' D2 B2 
7. F R2 D' L2 B L' U2 L U L U2 L B2 R' F2 L' U2 F2 R F2 
8. D' L2 D' B2 F2 R2 F2 D' F2 D U2 F L R U F' D2 B F D F' 
9. R' U2 F B' L' U F R F2 D R2 L2 U2 B2 U2 F R2 D2 B R2 F2 
10. U' R2 D2 U' F2 D' F2 U' B2 L2 U B U B' D U2 B R U' L F 
11. U2 D2 F L2 F R D L2 B R2 L2 U' B2 R2 F2 D2 B2 U2 F2 D' 
12. U2 B2 R2 U F2 U2 B2 L2 U' F2 D' R' B2 L2 U F D2 U R2 B' R' 

Closing time 06:51 UTC Thurs 3 April...


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## sneaklyfox (Mar 31, 2014)

Cross+1 Round 2
Average: 5.97
(6.99), 4.86, 5.89, 6.19, 6.93, 4.91, (3.81), 6.70, 5.64, 6.42, 5.23, 6.94

In case you're wondering why... I decided to try OH in preparation for Saturday. I've been doing OH again the last day or two and realize how rusty I actually am.

Edit: Oh my goodness... I forgot to congratulate Marcel on those awesome PB-smashing times!!!


----------



## Phillip1847 (Mar 31, 2014)

sneaklyfox said:


> I basically do the same as mark but feels more like
> R U R' U' f' z R' F R F' B
> I think...



Why not the standard approach?


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## sneaklyfox (Mar 31, 2014)

Phillip1847 said:


> Why not the standard approach?



What are you calling "standard"? They are all the same alg really but with different fingertricks. If you refer to the f' instead of the B' with right ring finger, I guess I just find f' more comfortable and faster for me.


----------



## ajayd (Mar 31, 2014)

What do you guys think of R U R2 U' R' F R U R U' F' ? That's the alg I use, I think it's pretty nice


----------



## MarcelP (Mar 31, 2014)

ajayd said:


> What do you guys think of R U R2 U' R' F R U R U' F' ? That's the alg I use, I think it's pretty nice



Yes, real nice. Only the F' at the end is really akward for me


----------



## Phillip1847 (Mar 31, 2014)

sneaklyfox said:


> What are you calling "standard"? They are all the same alg really but with different fingertricks. If you refer to the f' instead of the B' with right ring finger, I guess I just find f' more comfortable and faster for me.



R U R' U' y' r' U' R U M'
Probably the y rotation, but I find that fast. Thought most people used this alg.
Huh.


ajayd said:


> What do you guys think of R U R2 U' R' F R U R U' F' ? That's the alg I use, I think it's pretty nice


Its great, except that F', I feel like I have to do an R' before it.


----------



## sneaklyfox (Mar 31, 2014)

ajayd said:


> What do you guys think of R U R2 U' R' F R U R U' F' ? That's the alg I use, I think it's pretty nice



I think I've tried that one before, a long time ago. Commenting about that last F', I would use my right ring finger.


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## Gordon (Mar 31, 2014)

I'll try this. 

*Marcel's Bar Cross+1 Comp Round 2*

Best Time: 4.463
Worst Time: 13.265
Session Avg: *7.468*

Individual Times: 
8.892, 9.391, 5.340, 9.817, (13.265), 7.371, (4.463), 5.800, 5.921, 7.825, 6.980, 7.350


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## Schmidt (Mar 31, 2014)

We changed to summertime this weekend, how about everybody else? (Regarding the comp. this Saturday)


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## MarcelP (Mar 31, 2014)

sneaklyfox said:


> Cross+1 Round 2
> Average: 5.97
> (6.99), 4.86, 5.89, 6.19, 6.93, 4.91, (3.81), 6.70, 5.64, 6.42, 5.23, 6.94



No.... Melody! shame on you. Look again at scramble 3 

x2 y inspection
D' L U2 F // X-Cross..

5.89 seconds? LOL


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## MarcelP (Mar 31, 2014)

_Cross+1_ *round 2*

Mean: 6.08
Average: 6.11
Best time: 2.23
Median: 5.89
Worst time: 9.65
Standard deviation: 1.90

Best average of 5: 5.48
7-11 - (3.98) 5.85 5.93 (9.65) 4.65

Best average of 12: 6.11
1-12 - 7.06 6.62 (2.23) 5.84 8.79 6.61 3.98 5.85 5.93 (9.65) 4.65 5.78


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## mark49152 (Mar 31, 2014)

Marcel's Bar Cross+1 Round 2
*Average: 6.36*
6.77, 5.35, (2.66), 8.31, 6.40, 6.50, 3.92, 6.76, (11.85), 9.07, 6.02, 4.47

Probably would have been slower on #3 if Marcel hadn't given me a clue what to watch out for . Generally this was all over the place though. I nearly wrote the 11.85 in as DNF because it's just too embarrassing


----------



## sneaklyfox (Apr 1, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> No.... Melody! shame on you. Look again at scramble 3
> 
> x2 y inspection
> D' L U2 F // X-Cross..
> ...



Yeah, I suck because I don't try xcross. If it happens it's always by fluke. In this you're much better than me. So I tried it again... 1.77 OH.


----------



## MarcelP (Apr 1, 2014)

sneaklyfox said:


> Yeah, I suck because I don't try xcross. If it happens it's always by fluke. In this you're much better than me. So I tried it again... 1.77 OH.



No, for me these are also mostly flukes.  Btw, 1.77 OH is what I could not do in a million years. In fact I gave up on OH. I have a nice 1.22 single official and I leave it at that for the moment.  When 2H gets boring I will pick it up again.


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## mark49152 (Apr 1, 2014)

More PB crushing. Ao50: 23.06. Ao12: 22.12. Ao5: 20.59. Marcel, you must be sick of hearing from me


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## MarcelP (Apr 1, 2014)

No, are you kidding? I get very excited when hearing of PB's. It is very motivating. I am sure you have passed me by now.  In a while am I looking forward beating your times.


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## mark49152 (Apr 1, 2014)

I hope I can join the TTW on Saturday. It would be cool to race.


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## sneaklyfox (Apr 1, 2014)

Oh yeah, also I think you meant
x2 y
D' L U2 F*2*

For OH, I actually do
x2
D' F U2 R2

Anyway... you guys are going to kill me on Saturday. Sub-25 takes work.


----------



## Schmidt (Apr 1, 2014)

Spoiler: About PB's



Rubik's cube
01-04-2014 21:17:28 - 21:32:53


Mean: 20.58
Average: 20.55
Best time: 17.34
Median: 20.86
Worst time: 24.08
Standard deviation: 2.38


Best average of 5: 17.80
2-6 - 18.34 17.69 (21.46) 17.36 (17.34)


Best average of 12: 20.55
1-12 - 23.78 18.34 17.69 21.46 17.36 (17.34) 21.78 (24.08) 21.97 19.81 20.25 23.08


1. 23.78 L2 B2 D' R2 D F2 L2 D' R2 D2 R2 F' R2 F' R2 B R2 D2 U' L B
2. 18.34 R2 F2 D2 F2 D' U B2 U' F2 L2 U2 F R L' F D F' L2 D F2 U2
3. 17.69 L2 U2 B2 L2 D' L2 D B2 U' F2 D' L' R2 U R' F' D R B' D B
4. 21.46 B2 U2 B2 U' B2 U L2 D F2 U R D2 L2 F2 U B' R' F D' F
5. 17.36 U2 L2 F2 D2 R2 D' L2 U' R2 D L2 F U' R' L B2 F' D U2 F D' U'
6. 17.34 L2 D F2 R2 B2 R2 U2 R2 U2 F2 U F R' B2 D' B F U B' L' U2
7. 21.78 L2 D' R2 D2 U' L2 F2 D' R2 B2 U2 L' D R B' F' D' B2 F' D U2 L'
8. 24.08 U B2 D' B2 F2 L2 D U B2 D2 R U B' F D2 U2 R2 U' B2 R D2 U2
9. 21.97 F2 D' R2 D2 B2 U' L2 F2 U' R2 D R B U R' L F R B2 F' R'
10. 19.81 R2 U' R2 L2 D2 L2 B2 L2 F2 L2 U' F' D R U R D B2 D B' F2
11. 20.25 R2 D B2 D2 L2 B2 D R2 L2 D2 F2 L' U F' L2 U L B' U' L2 B U2
12. 23.08 D F2 L2 F2 U' F2 R2 D' R2 U2 R2 B D' L F' R' D' U F' L F' U2

Only white crosses and no skips afaik


----------



## MarcelP (Apr 1, 2014)

Schmidt said:


> Spoiler: About PB's
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Nice!!


----------



## MarcelP (Apr 2, 2014)

Some solves with the MoYu Dian Ma. Not sure what to think of the cube. I unboxed (video in Youtube) and did about 100 solves before it became any good. Today I set tensions loose and now it is pretty good. Better than a Zhanchi. How ever, the small edges make M-slices dificult.



Spoiler



31. 22.10 R2 B2 D R2 F2 R2 F2 D2 U' B2 U L' D F' U2 F' R' U F D' R U
32. 18.37 D' F2 L2 D F2 D' U2 L2 F2 U2 F2 R' B' F2 U B D2 R D U R2 U'
33. 22.69 R2 D F2 U2 B2 D F2 D B2 U' B2 L F2 D R' D2 F L U F R L'
34. 21.29 D2 B2 D2 R2 D B2 R2 F2 U R2 L2 B' L' F R F U B D2 U2 L2
35. 22.47 D U2 B2 U L2 B2 L2 F2 D2 L2 B' R U2 F U' B' F' L' B2 D' U'


[video=youtube_share;P2cq4Zh6hvE]http://youtu.be/P2cq4Zh6hvE[/video]


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## Gordon (Apr 3, 2014)

This time it's me with some new PBs done in the last days:

4x4 single: *1:38.22* (done at my first comp last sunday)
4x4 avg of 5: *1:59.94* [1:55.86, 1:58.38, 2:05.58, (1:51.08), (DNF)] (first sub-2 avg)
3x3 avg of 5: *22.41* [22.00, (33.34), (21.96), 21.99, 23.25] (lucky that all good solves in the session were in a span of 5 solves)
3x3 avg of 12: *25.55* [25.55, 25.74, 22.01, 28.34, (29.72), 28.94, 23.58, 27.10, (20.31), 25.95, 26.25, 22.07]

And I got my first sub-20 full step: 19.69


The comp gave me the motivation back to improve in cubing


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## sneaklyfox (Apr 3, 2014)

Wow, I am so impressed by all the new PB breaking. Nice!

Speaking of PBs, I just broke one of mine.
Megaminx single new PB = 3:30.06
This beats my previous single by almost half a minute! So even though it's a slow time, it's a big jump!

Continuing...
Ao5 = 4:13.35
Ao12 = 4:28.23

Edit: Ao5 = 4:10.94
Edit: Ao12 = 4:26.15 and a 3:39.87 single
Edit...
Edit...
Ok, I'll stop editing this post.

Final edit:
I didn't want to make a new post. These are my standings at the end of the day for megaminx all new PBs.
Single = 3:16.73
Ao5 = 3:43.00
Ao12 = 3:48.01

Not bad for only having 3:59.xx single best before today.


----------



## MarcelP (Apr 3, 2014)

Gordon said:


> This time it's me with some new PBs done in the last days:
> 
> 4x4 single: *1:38.22* (done at my first comp last sunday)
> 4x4 avg of 5: *1:59.94* [1:55.86, 1:58.38, 2:05.58, (1:51.08), (DNF)] (first sub-2 avg)
> ...



Nice!!! Looks like we will be all in the same league soon..


----------



## mark49152 (Apr 4, 2014)

*Marcel's Bar Cross+1 Comp*

A bit late, sorry, but...

*Round 2 results*
1. sneaklyfox 5.97
2. MarcelP 6.11
3. mark49152 6.36
4. Gordon 7.47

Congrats again sneaklyfox!

*Round 3 scrambles*
1. R U B L2 D' L D2 R B U L2 U2 L2 U B2 R2 B2 U L2 F2 
2. B2 R2 D' L2 U' F2 L2 D U B2 D B D F L' B L B' U L' F2 
3. D2 R2 F D2 L2 U2 L2 F' R2 B F2 R F2 D2 B' D' B L F D B' 
4. D' L2 D R2 U2 L2 D' R2 F2 D2 B2 F' U L2 F2 U R F' L2 
5. F2 R B2 R' D2 B2 D2 L F2 L2 R U' F' D2 F L F' R2 D R 
6. F2 L2 B L2 D2 R2 U2 F' D2 B' F' L D' L B R' B' F' D2 U R 
7. B L U2 B2 D L2 B L B U B2 D2 F2 L2 U' D L2 F2 U B2 
8. R F D' R U2 R B R2 B' R' B2 L' F2 R' U2 R' F2 U2 L F2 
9. L2 U2 R2 U F2 U2 L2 F2 D' B2 U B' R' U2 B' D B L U B' 
10. U2 B' L2 U2 B F' U2 F D2 F2 D2 L U B' F' R' U' R2 B' U B' 
11. F L2 D2 R2 F L2 R2 F2 R2 B' L2 D L' R2 B2 R2 D2 B2 U B2 
12. U L2 R2 D L2 U' L2 F2 D U F2 L' U F' L2 B' U' L D' U F2 

Closing time 06:51 UTC Mon 7 April...


----------



## sneaklyfox (Apr 5, 2014)

Round 3 Cross+1 (OH)
Average: 6.27
(8.30), 8.29, 5.74, 5.48, 5.43, 6.42, (3.52), 6.08, 5.86, 5.61, 5.76, 8.03


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## Schmidt (Apr 5, 2014)

Two 4x4x4 sub-90 in a row


----------



## MarcelP (Apr 5, 2014)

Remember, tonight TTW.. In roughly 9 hours from now at 19:00 GMT +1

I did some light practice yesterday (Ao50 22.57). I am ready for you guys.. had a nice 16.XX on cam too..


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## MarcelP (Apr 5, 2014)

*Round 3 **Cross+ 1 2H*

Mean: 6.19
Average: 6.17
Best time: 4.28
Median: 6.05
Worst time: 8.34
Standard deviation: 1.26

Best average of 5: 5.59
1-5 - 4.86 6.25 (4.28) (7.29) 5.67

Best average of 12: *6.17*
1-12 - 4.86 6.25 (4.28) 7.29 5.67 7.20 5.85 7.34 4.39 (8.34) 7.35 5.46


----------



## MarcelP (Apr 5, 2014)

Ok guys.. TTW now!

EDIT: as expected I won every round.. NOT  It was good fun. Only Schmidts PC stopped


----------



## mark49152 (Apr 6, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> Ok guys.. TTW now!
> 
> EDIT: as expected I won every round.. NOT  It was good fun. Only Schmidts PC stopped


Unfortunately I had to miss it. Who won the BOOM?


----------



## ThomasJE (Apr 6, 2014)

I sent some of the people on ttw last night a friend request (MarcelP, sneaklyfox, Schmidt and maybe others, I can't remember); please check them!


----------



## MarcelP (Apr 6, 2014)

mark49152 said:


> Unfortunately I had to miss it. Who won the BOOM?



Well, I had a 60 solves Average 23.03 (last solve cost me a sub 23 total). Schmidt's pc crashed after 44 solves (that fast he was). Melody was doing OH, and I think Thomas was the fastest.



ThomasJE said:


> I sent some of the people on ttw last night a friend request (MarcelP, sneaklyfox, Schmidt and maybe others, I can't remember); please check them!



Check!


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## MarcelP (Apr 6, 2014)

Today practically the same results as in BOOM yesterday. Exact same single. I am feeling so sub 23 these days.. LOL


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## schaek (Apr 6, 2014)

*Hi, Marcel from Holland here*

Just had my first competition. All around 30 sec, except for one where I just didn't have a clue where to start, and had an A-perm I didn't see so with a Tperm I had to finish off with a Zperm. Pb on green. 

I wanted to get 5 times in time (cutoff) which was 2.30m for the 4x4 and 5m for the 5x5. That 5x5 went even better than I hoped for. 

Edit: the worst 3x3 was 1:00,80


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## sneaklyfox (Apr 6, 2014)

schaek said:


> Just had my first competition. All around 30 sec, except for one where I just didn't have a clue where to start, and had an A-perm I didn't see so with a Tperm I had to finish off with a Zperm. Pb on green.
> 
> I wanted to get 5 times in time (cutoff) which was 2.30m for the 4x4 and 5m for the 5x5. That 5x5 went even better than I hoped for. View attachment 3843
> 
> Edit: the worst 3x3 was 1:00,80



Nice. My worst 3x3 at my first comp was 1:34.31.


----------



## sneaklyfox (Apr 6, 2014)

Yay! Beat my PB 3x3 Ao12. 13.83 on ttw!


----------



## MarcelP (Apr 6, 2014)

schaek said:


> Just had my first competition. All around 30 sec, except for one where I just didn't have a clue where to start, and had an A-perm I didn't see so with a Tperm I had to finish off with a Zperm. Pb on green.
> 
> I wanted to get 5 times in time (cutoff) which was 2.30m for the 4x4 and 5m for the 5x5. That 5x5 went even better than I hoped for. View attachment 3843
> 
> Edit: the worst 3x3 was 1:00,80



Nice going (goed gedaan Bart) 



sneaklyfox said:


> Yay! Beat my PB 3x3 Ao12. 13.83 on ttw!



You are still improving  Congrats! I filmed a 21.xx Ao12 this evening. I feel faster


----------



## mark49152 (Apr 7, 2014)

Marcel's Bar Cross+1 Round 3

*Average 6.56*
(4.38), 4.66, 5.24, 8.44, (DNF), 6.75, 6.45, 5.71, 4.68, 9.38, 8.55, 5.70

Too many screw-ups. The no-screwed-up ones were improved from usual though - the best 8 were mean 5.44.

In other news, got my first sub-20 ao5 tonight - 19.50.


----------



## sneaklyfox (Apr 7, 2014)

mark49152 said:


> In other news, got my first sub-20 ao5 tonight - 19.50.



Nice job!


----------



## MarcelP (Apr 7, 2014)

mark49152 said:


> In other news, got my first sub-20 ao5 tonight - 19.50.



Didn't you get your first sub 20 single like a few days ago? LOL... Amazing stuff Marc. It will be fun seeing you go to be true sub 20 soon.


----------



## Artic (Apr 7, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> Today practically the same results as in BOOM yesterday. Exact same single. I am feeling so sub 23 these days.. LOL



What timer is this?


----------



## Bindedsa (Apr 7, 2014)

Artic said:


> What timer is this?



looks like Prisma.


----------



## Artic (Apr 7, 2014)

Bindedsa said:


> looks like Prisma.



thanks! Are you really going to learn full zbll?


----------



## mark49152 (Apr 7, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> Didn't you get your first sub 20 single like a few days ago? LOL... Amazing stuff Marc. It will be fun seeing you go to be true sub 20 soon.


I had my first sub-20 single on 5 Feb and these days get them quite often. In my last ao50 I had 5 solves sub-20. Single FS PB is 17.04.

EDIT: Today's PB carnage: ao50 = 22.13, ao12 = 20.72. Did another ao89 later in the day and got 22.90.


----------



## mark49152 (Apr 8, 2014)

*Marcel's Bar Cross+1 Comp*

*Round 3 results*
1. MarcelP 6.17
2. sneaklyfox 6.27 (OH)
3. mark49152 6.56

Congrats Marcel for being slightly faster with the extra hand! 

*Round 4 scrambles*
1. F2 R' F2 U2 L2 R' U2 L U2 F2 R B R' U' L F2 R D' B F' 
2. B U2 R2 B U2 L2 F2 L2 B' L2 F L D2 U R2 B' L F' U' R2 D2 
3. B' R2 U L' B2 U B D L2 B R' F2 D2 R' B2 L2 F2 D2 L U2 B2 
4. D2 L F2 U2 F2 U2 R' F2 L U2 R D' L2 R' U2 F L' F' D2 B 
5. B2 D F2 R2 F2 D2 B2 U2 F2 U' L2 F' L D B R D L' U L' B2 
6. L2 D' L2 R2 D B2 U' F2 L2 R2 U' F' R2 B' L R D' B' R' B F2 
7. B' F D2 U2 L2 U2 B D2 F D2 U' L' U' L' U2 L2 D L2 R' U 
8. R' F' L' B' U2 F2 U D R2 B' D R2 U R2 B2 R2 U F2 L2 U B2 
9. B2 L2 D' F2 R2 F2 D U B2 D2 R' B' F R F2 L' D' B2 L2 D' U' 
10. U2 F2 R2 D F2 R2 U2 L2 U F2 U2 B L F' D' B F' D2 B D F2 
11. U' B' R D' F L U' F U' R2 D2 B' R2 F' R2 U2 F L2 B2 L2 
12. D' L2 D F2 D2 U' L2 F2 D2 L2 B2 R D2 F D2 R' U' L D F2 U' 

Closing time 07:02 UTC Fri 11 April...


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## mark49152 (Apr 8, 2014)

Marcel's Bar Cross+1 - Round 4
*Average 7.81*
6.66, 6.91, 10.94, (4.19), (DNF), 8.50, 6.55, 6.12, 7.96, 6.48, 9.80, 8.21

What a shocker...


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## sneaklyfox (Apr 8, 2014)

Round 4 Cross+1
Average: 3.96
4.96, 3.40, (2.80), 3.53, 2.88, 3.89, 4.32, (5.06), 4.15, 4.34, 4.50, 3.59

Back to real 2H practice.


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## MarcelP (Apr 8, 2014)

*Round 4* _Cross+1_ 2H

Mean: *5.99* // 
Average: 6.13
Best time: 2.59
Median: 6.33
Worst time: 7.96
Standard deviation: 1.43

Best average of 5: 5.32
3-7 - 5.57 5.10 (4.42) (7.96) 5.29

Best average of 12: 6.13
1-12 - 7.10 6.17 5.57 5.10 4.42 (7.96) 5.29 6.81 7.12 7.28 6.48 (2.59)

Last solve: 
orange cross
inspection z' y (red on U yellow on F)
F' R' U R' U R U R' //X-cross

Scrambles like these where 2/4 cross is solved 9 out of 10 times I can plan cross + 1 these days..


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## Schmidt (Apr 9, 2014)

2014-15 playlist= http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLTXoXnFtINoBaFXk6reCuFcLQhxLSSqbd


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## MarcelP (Apr 9, 2014)

Look at you buying new cubes and all.. LOL So you really are back in the game huh? Is that a Weilong V2?

The other day you said 'Yeah but I did it on stack mat'. That made me think. So I did an Ao100 with CTRL's buttons in PPT (I left my stackmat timer at last competition).. Man... big difference. it was 25.XX (high) I think I am not as fast as I thought I was. So last few days I have been practicing the right way. Today I filmed an Ao12 22.25 the stackmatted way:



Spoiler



18.87 22.80 18.72 23.05 22.57 24.32 24.82 24.75 23.00 19.53 20.85 23.72


[video=youtube_share;zSGS44qHXfI]http://youtu.be/zSGS44qHXfI[/video]


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## Schmidt (Apr 9, 2014)

V1. It's the first cubes I've bought since July 2013.
and sorry for not providing times in the videos
http://www.speedsolving.com/competitions/index.php?showPerson=127


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## MarcelP (Apr 9, 2014)

The version 2 is much more controllable.. Only 8$ at Lightake.com


----------



## mark49152 (Apr 12, 2014)

*Marcel's Bar Cross+1 Comp*

*Round 4 results*
1. sneaklyfox 3.96 (2H)
2. MarcelP 5.99
3. mark49152 7.81 (ARRGH!!)

Congrats sneaklyfox!

*Round 5 scrambles*
1. U L2 F2 D2 F2 D' F2 U' B2 R2 U' L D' U L R U2 R U2 B' D2 
2. B' D2 F2 U2 L2 F D2 L2 D2 R2 F' L B2 D' B2 U R2 D' L2 U' R 
3. L' D2 B2 R' B2 D2 L2 B2 R' D2 R' B L' D B U F D L2 R B' 
4. B' R2 D2 B D2 L2 U2 F' D2 F L2 D L2 B U R U2 L' R' B U 
5. D F2 D2 B2 D F2 U' F2 L2 D' R2 F' L2 D U B2 D' R B' L' F 
6. B2 D2 B2 R2 D R2 D U2 F2 U' B2 L D' R2 U2 F U2 L' B D' R 
7. U2 B2 U2 B D2 F' L2 U2 B2 D2 U2 R F D' F U F2 L U2 L2 R2 
8. B2 U B2 D2 L2 D2 R2 F2 R2 F2 U' B D B' F' R B U2 L2 F2 U2 
9. B2 D2 F2 U L2 B2 U R2 D2 L2 D' F U' R D U2 L' D' B' L R2 
10. U' F' D' R' D' F' R U2 D F2 R2 L2 U2 F' R2 B2 U2 F D2 L2 
11. D B2 U' L2 D' R2 U R2 U L2 B' U L B2 R2 B R2 D R2 F' 
12. L2 D2 F2 L' F2 R2 U2 F2 U2 R' B2 D' R F D R' U L' F' D L' 

Closing time 05:55 UTC Mon 14 April...


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## MarcelP (Apr 12, 2014)

mark49152 said:


> *Marcel's Bar Cross+1 Comp*
> 
> *Round 4 results*
> 3. mark49152 7.81 (ARRGH!!)



What is going on there Mark? LOL You are being punished for too much gain over the last months I guess... I gained a lot this week. After I discovered I could not get sub 25 Ao100 with 'stackmatted way' have I been practicing my @ss of. Yesterday I had a 22.23 Ao50. With the Moyu Dian Ma. Love that cube. Then the next 50 I started to change cubes between Weilong, LiYing and Cx3 and I finished 23.80 Ao100. Not great compared to the first 50 but I am more than satisfied with the progress.


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## MarcelP (Apr 12, 2014)

*Round 5* _Cross + 1_

Without warm up, first solves of the day. Not bad..

Mean: 6.20
Average: *6.23*
Best time: 4.25
Median: 6.08
Worst time: 7.92
Standard deviation: 1.17

Best average of 5: 5.29
6-10 - *4.79* (*4.25*) (7.92) *4.84* 6.25

Best average of 12: 6.23
1-12 - 7.64 7.07 5.84 5.90 7.84 *4.79* (*4.25*) (7.92) *4.84* 6.25 6.25 5.85


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## mark49152 (Apr 12, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> What is going on there Mark? LOL You are being punished for too much gain over the last months I guess... I gained a lot this week. After I discovered I could not get sub 25 Ao100 with 'stackmatted way' have I been practicing my @ss of. Yesterday I had a 22.23 Ao50. With the Moyu Dian Ma. Love that cube. Then the next 50 I started to change cubes between Weilong, LiYing and Cx3 and I finished 23.80 Ao100. Not great compared to the first 50 but I am more than satisfied with the progress.


Good progress Marcel. I have never tried with stackmat. I use my phone as a timer which is probably faster even than keyboard.

My solving has been awful this week. After getting a 22.13 PB ao50 the last few have been nearer 24 and I keep getting runs of 25-26 or worse. Lookahead and flow have both gone. I might take a break from timed solves and go back to substep practice for a while.


----------



## kcl (Apr 12, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> What is going on there Mark? LOL You are being punished for too much gain over the last months I guess... I gained a lot this week. After I discovered I could not get sub 25 Ao100 with 'stackmatted way' have I been practicing my @ss of. Yesterday I had a 22.23 Ao50. With the Moyu Dian Ma. Love that cube. Then the next 50 I started to change cubes between Weilong, LiYing and Cx3 and I finished 23.80 Ao100. Not great compared to the first 50 but I am more than satisfied with the progress.



I think a lot of the reason I do especially well in comps is because I practice everything stackmatted. Pickups are extremely easy to mess up when you're nervous, and stackmatting at home gets you used to them.


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## mark49152 (Apr 13, 2014)

Cross+1 round 5
*Average: 6.46*
8.16, 6.10, 5.93, 5.10, 5.99, 6.26, 6.35, (9.06), 7.42, (4.93), 6.27, 6.98


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## sneaklyfox (Apr 13, 2014)

Round 5 Cross+1
Average: 4.30
5.86, 5.86, 3.91, 3.93, 4.54, 4.09, 3.72, (6.33), 3.60, 3.64, 3.80, (3.48)

Hmm... I wonder how good this would have been if I were not holding a baby in my lap for the first 5 solves and if my kids were not simultaneously trying to throw a blanket over me through the first two solves.


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## mark49152 (Apr 13, 2014)

sneaklyfox said:


> Hmm... I wonder how good this would have been if I were not holding a baby in my lap for the first 5 solves and if my kids were not simultaneously trying to throw a blanket over me through the first two solves.


Impressive result for OH BLD...


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## MarcelP (Apr 13, 2014)

LOL, yeah kids can be a pain while solving


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## sneaklyfox (Apr 15, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> LOL, yeah kids can be a pain while solving



Yeah totally. I mean, I was just breaking my PB Ao5 when on the 5th solve I just started the solve and my son comes in and says, "Mommy!" and I'm so distracted because the rest of the solve I'm wondering what he wants to tell me. Fortunately, I already had 4 good solves and still managed to break my PB Ao5, yay! Whew! Otherwise I would've been really annoyed.

Edit: Also Ao12.


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## kcl (Apr 15, 2014)

Does anyone else do skewb? It's fun. 

I'm kinda ticked right now.. 4.35 almost UWR ao12 but it had a counting 7.


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## MarcelP (Apr 15, 2014)

sneaklyfox said:


> Edit: Also Ao12.



Yeah! You are on an improvement streak right? Very nice. What is your new Ao12 PB?



kclejeune said:


> Does anyone else do skewb? It's fun.
> 
> I'm kinda ticked right now.. 4.35 almost UWR ao12 but it had a counting 7.



I have a skweb and I have solved it maybe 12 times. It is fun yeah, but so much different than 2X2, 3X3, 4X4. I do not intent to practice this puzzle. I think I average 2 minutes LOL..


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## sneaklyfox (Apr 15, 2014)

kclejeune said:


> Does anyone else do skewb? It's fun.
> 
> I'm kinda ticked right now.. 4.35 almost UWR ao12 but it had a counting 7.


I don't really skewb. Have one and have solved it and right now not planning on practicing it. Nice times! Just keep practicing and hope you get a real WR!



MarcelP said:


> Yeah! You are on an improvement streak right? Very nice. What is your new Ao12 PB?


New Ao12 PB is 13.79 (0.04 improvement). I hope I'm on an improvement streak. I've been at crawling pace for a year though I do feel that I am still improving which is encouraging. I hope I never truly stagnate. That would be a killer.


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## MarcelP (Apr 16, 2014)

My Weekly competition week 16 entry:

Best average of 5: 21.31 (Mo5 20.91)
1-5 - 22.47 (17.28) 19.80 21.66 (23.35)

Cube: WitEden Type C5 V2, great cube.

[video=youtube_share;z8V6NZX1gLU]http://youtu.be/z8V6NZX1gLU[/video]


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## sneaklyfox (Apr 16, 2014)

Marcel, you think almost every cube is a great cube. You use so many different cubes. Do you actually have a main?

And guess what?! I did it again! New PB Ao12 = 13.53
14.43, 14.91, 15.85, 12.85, 12.28, 13.21, 11.59, 14.00, (16.77), 12.30, (11.25), 13.91


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## mark49152 (Apr 16, 2014)

Congrats Sneakly! You are on a roll.

I wish I shared Marcel's enthusiasm for every new cube. I also buy most new cubes, and enjoy unpacking and trying them, but most of them are a disappointment and don't get used for long. I always go quickly back to my favourite ShuangRen v2, which has been my main for almost a year. It will take a very special cube to replace my main!


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## TDM (Apr 16, 2014)

mark49152 said:


> I wish I shared Marcel's enthusiasm for every new cube. I also buy most new cubes, and enjoy unpacking and trying them, but most of them are a disappointment and don't get used for long. I always go quickly back to my favourite ShuangRen v2, which has been my main for almost a year. It will take a very special cube to replace my main!


Not sure about the enthusiasm; I wouldn't have any money! But I used to agree with you on not replacing my main, my ShuangRen's been my main since early September... but now, I'm starting to think it locks up too often. Unfortunately, without buying another cube, my choices are limited to a couple of dead Dayans, an Aurora (can't reverse corner cut), a SS wind (which is even worse at reverse corner cutting), and a WeiLong which I can't control. And it's not black. And the colours are way too bright. I was thinking of getting a new cube, probably a GuHong v2, and I did get some money for my birthday a week ago which I could use. But do you not find the ShuangRen locking up a lot? I get a lot of +2s...


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## sneaklyfox (Apr 16, 2014)

TDM said:


> Not sure about the enthusiasm; I wouldn't have any money! But I used to agree with you on not replacing my main, my ShuangRen's been my main since early September... but now, I'm starting to think it locks up too often. Unfortunately, without buying another cube, my choices are limited to a couple of dead Dayans, an Aurora (can't reverse corner cut), a SS wind (which is even worse at reverse corner cutting), and a WeiLong which I can't control. And it's not black. And the colours are way too bright. I was thinking of getting a new cube, probably a GuHong v2, and I did get some money for my birthday a week ago which I could use. But do you not find the ShuangRen locking up a lot? I get a lot of +2s...



Ok, you need both enthusiasm AND money! I am still using my SR v1 sometimes. My PB Ao5 and Ao12 I set the other day were done on it. (Today's records were with the WL.) Some days the SR will lock on me if I'm too jittery with my hands but if I'm more calm and controlled it's really nice.


----------



## kcl (Apr 16, 2014)

I can't stand the fangshi anymore. Just way too light for my taste. I'm lucky in that I can control super fast cubes, so the weilong and liying are basically the two I use nowadays.


----------



## TDM (Apr 16, 2014)

kclejeune said:


> I can't stand the fangshi anymore. Just way too light for my taste. I'm lucky in that I can control super fast cubes, so the weilong and liying are basically the two I use nowadays.


How is the LiYing? Is it faster than a WeiLong, and importantly, does it lock/reverse corner cut?


----------



## kcl (Apr 16, 2014)

TDM said:


> How is the LiYing? Is it faster than a WeiLong, and importantly, does it lock/reverse corner cut?



I wouldn't say it's faster than a weilong. It's definitely a pretty controllable cube, but I've made it a good bit faster (10k is magical). Cutting is really good, and locking is basically nonexistent if you do the super easy corner mod. 

All in all, if you don't mind clicky cubes go run and get it. Like now.


----------



## Rappan11 (Apr 16, 2014)

I wonder what i'll be like when i'm over 40


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## mark49152 (Apr 16, 2014)

TDM said:


> But do you not find the ShuangRen locking up a lot?


Sometimes. That's the main reason I try other cubes, but haven't found one that doesn't lock up just as much. Probably I should attribute that to the cuber.


----------



## TDM (Apr 16, 2014)

kclejeune said:


> I wouldn't say it's faster than a weilong. It's definitely a pretty controllable cube, but I've made it a good bit faster (10k is magical). Cutting is really good, and locking is basically nonexistent if you do the super easy corner mod.
> 
> All in all, if you don't mind clicky cubes go run and get it. Like now.


It sounds good, I might try it then. I have some Maru if I need to speed it (or anything) up. I've never modded anything before, so I might fail but I'll try a bit at a time to avoid overmodding. Which mod is it?
I've never tried clicky cubes, or if I have I just don't know what 'clicky' is. I wouldn't describe any of my cubes as clicky.


mark49152 said:


> Sometimes. That's the main reason I try other cubes, but haven't found one that doesn't lock up just as much. Probably I should attribute that to the cuber.


I think most of it is my turning style too... but if I can find a cube that can cope with my turning style and not lock up, that would be perfect.


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## kcl (Apr 16, 2014)

TDM said:


> It sounds good, I might try it then. I have some Maru if I need to speed it (or anything) up. I've never modded anything before, so I might fail but I'll try a bit at a time to avoid overmodding. Which mod is it?
> I've never tried clicky cubes, or if I have I just don't know what 'clicky' is. I wouldn't describe any of my cubes as clicky.
> 
> I think most of it is my turning style too... but if I can find a cube that can cope with my turning style and not lock up, that would be perfect.



It just shaves off some excess plastic, you honestly cannot mess it up. 

Basically the lip over the hollow part, just shave it off.


----------



## mark49152 (Apr 17, 2014)

*Marcel's Bar Cross+1 Comp*

Results are late - sorry - but there's a graph to make up for it.

*Round 5 results*
1. sneaklyfox 4.30(2H)
2. MarcelP 6.23
3. mark49152 6.46

Congrats sneaklyfox!







*Round 6 scrambles*
1. D2 F' R2 F' L2 U2 B' R2 U2 F L2 D' B' R' F L' D2 F2 R2 B2 
2. F2 R2 B2 L2 B D2 F U2 B' D2 F2 L' D B D' L' B2 R2 F2 D' B 
3. L2 D L2 D R2 B2 D2 B2 U' B2 U2 L F2 D B' U L' R' U' R D' 
4. B D2 L2 F R2 F' D2 L2 B' L2 D2 U F' D2 L2 R' F2 L' D' F2 
5. R2 B2 D' B2 D' R2 D2 U' L2 U' B2 F U L' R U' F2 R U2 B' L2 
6. R2 B2 U' R2 B2 D B2 R2 D B2 D' F D2 L F' D' U' B2 U' R B2 
7. F U2 R2 B' D2 F' D2 R2 F' L2 D L R' D' L2 U' R2 D2 B' R2 
8. L2 D2 F2 D2 U F2 D' R2 B2 R2 B2 L B' D' R' F2 U R' B U2 L' 
9. L2 D U2 F2 R2 D U2 L2 U R2 U' R B' L U' B' R D' B L' R 
10. L D R B D' F2 U L' F' L D2 B2 D2 L' D2 L' F2 L U2 
11. U F B2 U F2 R B' D' L U2 B R2 U2 F2 L2 B D2 L2 B U2 
12. F U' L2 U2 L' F B' L' F2 U' F U2 R2 U2 B D2 F L2 F' U2 R2 

Closing time 04:14 UTC Wed 23 April (I won't be cubing this weekend!)


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## mark49152 (Apr 17, 2014)

Cross+1 Round 6
*Average: 6.18*
5.83, 3.92, 5.06, 6.93, 8.22, 7.24, 5.74, (3.47), (9.62), 5.56, 9.29, 3.97

Wonder what the stdev of that session is 

In other news, I did an ao25 with splits today and compared to splits from October. Here's the results (cross, F2L, OLL, PLL):-
- October: 4.53, 18.53, 4.37, 6.23
- Today: 3.24, 12.84, *4.33*, 4.70

So a big improvement in all steps except OLL, but I've learned 20 more OLLs since October, and been drilling OLLs just as much as PLLs. Strange.


----------



## sneaklyfox (Apr 17, 2014)

mark49152 said:


> *Marcel's Bar Cross+1 Comp*
> Results are late - sorry - but there's a graph to make up for it.
> 
> Closing time 04:14 UTC Wed 23 April (I won't be cubing this weekend!)



I love the graphs. Having a visual representation of your progress is really awesome. Haha, you have me as both "Melody" and "sneaklyfox". You all know my real name and that's totally fine, but may I request that just "sneaklyfox" is used? I guess for clarity and for preference.


----------



## MarcelP (Apr 17, 2014)

sneaklyfox said:


> Marcel, you think almost every cube is a great cube. You use so many different cubes. Do you actually have a main?
> 
> And guess what?! I did it again! New PB Ao12 = 13.53
> 14.43, 14.91, 15.85, 12.85, 12.28, 13.21, 11.59, 14.00, (16.77), 12.30, (11.25), 13.91



Yeah I tend to overreact on new cubes. But in this case, the new WitLong C5 V2 is really really good. My Weilong V2 is my main. But I would not have any problems replacing it with this one. Congtrats on the new PB. Btw, seeing that you now have a PB around 13 secs, imagion how cool you where by doing a 13 sec solve on your first competition. That is amazing!



mark49152 said:


> I wish I shared Marcel's enthusiasm for every new cube. I also buy most new cubes, and enjoy unpacking and trying them, but most of them are a disappointment and don't get used for long.



I have many cubes that I do not use. The Cyclone Boys, the FangCun, the YJ's (Chi/Su/YuLongs). I like the Weilong, Gan III 57mm, and LiYing. But only this new WitLong Type C5 V2 is right next there with the Weilong. I also love the Dian Ma. I get great times on the Dian ma, only H and Z perm are slow due to small edges 



kclejeune said:


> I can't stand the fangshi anymore. Just way too light for my taste. I'm lucky in that I can control super fast cubes, so the weilong and liying are basically the two I use nowadays.


I think you would love the YuLong. It is even faster than the Weilong. 


TDM said:


> How is the LiYing? Is it faster than a WeiLong, and importantly, does it lock/reverse corner cut?


LiYing is very controllable and cuts amazing. Only downside to me is size. It is 56 mm. And I love 57 mm.


----------



## mark49152 (Apr 17, 2014)

sneaklyfox said:


> Haha, you have me as both "Melody" and "sneaklyfox". You all know my real name and that's totally fine, but may I request that just "sneaklyfox" is used? I guess for clarity and for preference.


Good point, I will fix that!



MarcelP said:


> I have many cubes that I do not use. The Cyclone Boys, the FangCun, the YJ's (Chi/Su/YuLongs). I like the Weilong, Gan III 57mm, and LiYing. But only this new WitLong Type C5 V2 is right next there with the Weilong. I also love the Dian Ma.


Yeah I have a silly number of 3x3s, probably about 40. Each room has a few in it so I often use LiYing, ChiLong, ZhanChi, and there's an Alpha CC1 in the toilet. But all my timed solves are on ShuangRen v2 and if I could only have one cube with me stranded on a desert island, that would be it.


----------



## MarcelP (Apr 17, 2014)

mark49152 said:


> But all my timed solves are on ShuangRen v2 and if I could only have one cube with me stranded on a desert island, that would be it.



LOL.. if that was the case I would like to have the Dian Ma with me then. Since there is no competition on a stranded island I would not have to worry about the m slices anyway..


----------



## mark49152 (Apr 17, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> LOL.. if that was the case I would like to have the Dian Ma with me then. Since there is no competition on a stranded island I would not have to worry about the m slices anyway..


You can have one timer stranded with you as well.


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## MarcelP (Apr 17, 2014)

mark49152 said:


> You can have one timer stranded with you as well.



That would be the Prisma Puzzle Timer of course


----------



## ThomasJE (Apr 17, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> That would be the Prisma Puzzle Timer of course



Good luck without a computer


----------



## mark49152 (Apr 17, 2014)

ThomasJE said:


> Good luck without a computer


You are also allowed one computer, an electrical generator with wind or wave turbine, and a satellite internet connection with unlimited data. No chair though - you'll have to sit on a rock.


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## ThomasJE (Apr 17, 2014)

*Marcel's Bar Comp*

*Round 6
Average: 6.22*
5.81, (3.75), 6.22, 5.77, 5.19, 5.38, 7.91, 6.47, 7.42, 5.97, 6.10, (11.52)

I'm doing EOL+1 (EO-Line + 1x2x2 block). As a comparison, Cross+1 is 6 pieces; while EOL+1 is 5 pieces and orienting all the other edges (6 on average); so I'm technically at a little disadvantage.


----------



## ThomasJE (Apr 17, 2014)

mark49152 said:


> You are also allowed one computer, an electrical generator with wind or wave turbine, and a satellite internet connection with unlimited data. No chair though - you'll have to sit on a rock.



Then I can get co-ordinates of my location, send it to as many people as I can, and then get rescued. Then I have all my cubes, power from the grid and my chair. Problem solved.


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## mark49152 (Apr 17, 2014)

ThomasJE said:


> Then I can get co-ordinates of my location, send it to as many people as I can, and then get rescued. Then I have all my cubes, power from the grid and my chair. Problem solved.


Well, in the two weeks it took for the rescue ship to reach you, at least you would have broken a few PBs.


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## TDM (Apr 17, 2014)

kclejeune said:


> It just shaves off some excess plastic, you honestly cannot mess it up. View attachment 3933
> 
> Basically the lip over the hollow part, just shave it off.


Thanks - do you have a picture of what the corner looked like before to compare it to?


MarcelP said:


> LiYing is very controllable and cuts amazing. Only downside to me is size. It is 56 mm. And I love 57 mm.


I've been using a 54.6mm cube as my main, and I love the size. Although 56mm could be too big for me, it will probably be better than a 57mm.


----------



## kcl (Apr 17, 2014)

TDM said:


> Thanks - do you have a picture of what the corner looked like before to compare it to?
> 
> I've been using a 54.6mm cube as my main, and I love the size. Although 56mm could be too big for me, it will probably be better than a 57mm.



I don't :/ If you can find a stock photo you'll see what I mean.


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## TDM (Apr 17, 2014)

kclejeune said:


> I don't :/ If you can find a stock photo you'll see what I mean.


I searched a bit and although all the images I could find were too small, I found a video review that showed the corner. Unfortunately I just remembered I won't be able to do the mod, or even get the cube, for a month or two because of exams. From what everyone here says, it sounds like the perfect cube...


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## kcl (Apr 17, 2014)

TDM said:


> I searched a bit and although all the images I could find were too small, I found a video review that showed the corner. Unfortunately I just remembered I won't be able to do the mod, or even get the cube, for a month or two because of exams. From what everyone here says, it sounds like the perfect cube...



Ohh.. Well then, after exams gogogogo

The only downside I can think of is if you don't like the clickiness, but it's actually grown on me.


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## TDM (Apr 17, 2014)

kclejeune said:


> Ohh.. Well then, after exams gogogogo
> 
> The only downside I can think of is if you don't like the clickiness, but it's actually grown on me.


I've never had a cube I would describe as clicky, but clicky sounds like a good thing...


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## AmazingCuber (Apr 17, 2014)

I still really like this cube. How did the new hardware turn out, Marcel?

[video=youtube_share;cKY1qivzP1M]http://youtu.be/cKY1qivzP1M[/video]


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## sneaklyfox (Apr 17, 2014)

TDM said:


> I've never had a cube I would describe as clicky, but clicky sounds like a good thing...



I wonder if there is a youtube video that goes through all the different adjectives and what they mean and the sound and the feel. If not, I think there ought to be one and I wonder who could make such a good video. I've thought of it... just don't think I'd have the time for it.


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## TDM (Apr 17, 2014)

sneaklyfox said:


> I wonder if there is a youtube video that goes through all the different adjectives and what they mean and the sound and the feel. If not, I think there ought to be one and I wonder who could make such a good video. I've thought of it... just don't think I'd have the time for it.


Yeah, that would be awesome. Because of my lack of experience with different cubes, I don't know what most words mean... I think my ShuangRen is smooth and I'm certain my WeiLong is uncontrollable, but most other words I'm not too sure about.
E: and I know what dead means. My GuHong v2 is a good example of a cube that died long ago.


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## sneaklyfox (Apr 18, 2014)

airy, clicky, crunchy, crispy, bubbly, bumpy, buttery, blocky...

Can you think of others? I guess we tend to stick to our ABCs.


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## kcl (Apr 18, 2014)

*Hi, Marcel from Holland here*

I could probably make it. I have enough different cubes to describe the feeling.

Make a list for me and I'll do it sometime this weekend.


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## MarcelP (Apr 18, 2014)

AmazingCuber said:


> I still really like this cube. How did the new hardware turn out, Marcel?



Great, with the 50 mm core the cube is more stable. I like it better with the 50 mm core than with the Octopus core.


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## MarcelP (Apr 18, 2014)

TDM said:


> I searched a bit and although all the images I could find were too small, I found a video review that showed the corner. Unfortunately I just remembered I won't be able to do the mod, or even get the cube, for a month or two because of exams. From what everyone here says, it sounds like the perfect cube...


This is the mod which I did. IMHO the cube is good enough to go without mod. I have two LiYings and I modded one. This one performs slightly better than the unmodded one. Not really worth the fuzz.


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## TDM (Apr 18, 2014)

sneaklyfox said:


> airy, clicky, crunchy, crispy, bubbly, bumpy, buttery, blocky...
> 
> Can you think of others? I guess we tend to stick to our ABCs.


Well if we've got this many after just 3 letters, this is going to be a long list...
Also airy, bumpy and buttery? I've never heard of them.


MarcelP said:


> This is the mod which I did. IMHO the cube is good enough to go without mod. I have two LiYings and I modded one. This one performs slightly better than the unmodded one. Not really worth the fuzz.
> image


Thanks. I'll probably try modding it anyway; I need practise. I can't avoid modding a cube forever.


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## Schmidt (Apr 18, 2014)

Schmidt : 5.70 (σ = 1.10)
7.66, 3.78, 5.96, 5.93, 4.65, 12.71, 5.63, 4.69, 6.22, 4.71, 7.13, 4.46

i need to practice this! #2 was the only one I could predict(something like R U2 R instead of just R2)


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## MarcelP (Apr 19, 2014)

*Cross Plus 1* *round 6*

Cube: *Type C5 V2 *

Mean: 5.93
Average: *5.90*
Best time: 4.89
Median: 5.85
Worst time: 7.25
Standard deviation: 0.66

Best average of 5: 5.53
1-5 - 5.71 (5.18) (5.84) 5.32 5.57

Best average of 12: *5.90*
1-12 - 5.71 5.18 5.84 5.32 5.57 (7.25) 5.95 6.51 6.79 5.85 6.29 (4.89)


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## sneaklyfox (Apr 19, 2014)

kclejeune said:


> I could probably make it. I have enough different cubes to describe the feeling.
> 
> Make a list for me and I'll do it sometime this weekend.



That would be awesome. Would it be too hard to compare it to real life things? I mean, take "crunchy" and then take a chip and see what sound it makes when you are chomping down on it. Just a thought.


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## MarcelP (Apr 22, 2014)

Well, smack my bottom and call me Judy. Last week I had six 20.xx's in a row and yesterday I had six 19.xx's in a row  Total Ao100 was 22.xx All stackmatted. I have gained a small bit this month. I hope it will stay this time.


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## mark49152 (Apr 22, 2014)

Nice one Marcel . How much time do you think stackmat loses?


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## MarcelP (Apr 22, 2014)

mark49152 said:


> Nice one Marcel . How much time do you think stackmat loses?



Well, if you always start with the cube in your hand, putting it down and waiting 2 seconds (that's what most timer take before the light is green) will mess up your start for sure. I would say more than 2 seconds. When I started the stackmatted way I had a real hard time get below 25 seconds.


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## sneaklyfox (Apr 22, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> Well, smack my bottom and call me Judy. Last week I had six 20.xx's in a row and yesterday I had six 19.xx's in a row  Total Ao100 was 22.xx All stackmatted. I have gained a small bit this month. I hope it will stay this time.



You're on a roll!


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## MarcelP (Apr 23, 2014)

sneaklyfox said:


> You're on a roll!



Yeah!

Look at this:


Spoiler



Mean: 20.55
Average:  20.57
Best time: 17.93
Median: 20.52
Worst time: 22.89
Standard deviation: 1.38

Best average of 5: 19.92
3-7 - 20.99 19.87 (21.98) 18.91 (17.93)

Best average of 12: 20.57
1-12 - 20.47 19.12 20.99 19.87 21.98 18.91 (17.93) (22.89) 20.49 22.16 20.55 21.20


[video=youtube_share;NScoFX73cL0]http://youtu.be/NScoFX73cL0[/video]


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## mark49152 (Apr 23, 2014)

Nice one. What have you done to achieve such rapid improvement?


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## MarcelP (Apr 23, 2014)

mark49152 said:


> Nice one. What have you done to achieve such rapid improvement?



LOL.. I wish I could point it out that easy. For one thing I have practiced many F2L cases (from Viktor Expert F2L). But I am sure that is not it. What I have been working on is not looking at the pieces while solving but looking at the cube as a whole. More something like glaring at the cube while solving. Btw, I have not really improved or anything. This is just an exceptional nice Ao12 which is very close to my PB.

EDIT, in the weekly comptetion I had a 4X4 single PB 1.29. First time that I broke my 1.36 (official) PB.


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## mark49152 (Apr 23, 2014)

Yeah improvement is a weird thing. Recently I made some great improvements and blew away all my PBs. In the few weeks since, it's been weird. Some days I feel fast but get terrible times and averages. Other days I feel slow and see lots of bad times go past, and get frustrated, but then the average turns out to be quite good and close to PB.

Also I went back to lookahead training (tracking one pair while solving another, blind) and found I was completely useless at it. This was what I practised to get these improvements in the first place so I'm surprised to have lost that ability so completely. This is my practise plan for the next couple of weeks


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## MarcelP (Apr 23, 2014)

mark49152 said:


> Yeah improvement is a weird thing. Recently I made some great improvements and blew away all my PBs. In the few weeks since, it's been weird. Some days I feel fast but get terrible times and averages. Other days I feel slow and see lots of bad times go past, and get frustrated, but then the average turns out to be quite good and close to PB.
> 
> Also I went back to lookahead training (tracking one pair while solving another, blind) and found I was completely useless at it. This was what I practised to get these improvements in the first place so I'm surprised to have lost that ability so completely. This is my practise plan for the next couple of weeks




Yeah, I know what you mean. I have my special cube days that I feel like breaking a A0100 PB which turns out 4 seconds slower than my normal average.. LOL. I just did a an Ao12 in my coffey break (at work at home today  : 


Spoiler



Rubik's cube
23-apr-2014 15:45:50 - 15:54:34

Mean: 22.02
Average: 22.01
Best time: 18.56
Median: 22.41
Worst time: 25.57
Standard deviation: 2.34

Best average of 5: 20.88
1-5 - 23.30 20.78 18.57 (25.49) (18.56)

Best average of 12: 22.01
1-12 - 23.30 20.78 18.57 25.49 (18.56) 23.93 22.10 20.41 23.19 22.72 19.62 (25.57)

1. 23.30 U2 B2 D' L2 F2 L2 U B2 L2 D' B2 L' D' B R D U F' R B2 D' U'
2. 20.78 R2 F2 U' R2 D F2 U2 R2 B2 D F2 R B' R U2 F2 D2 F' U B U'
3. 18.57 U' F2 D' U' L2 U' F2 U B2 F2 U2 B U L B' D' B' U' R B' U' F
4. 25.49 F2 U2 B2 U2 L2 B2 U' F2 U' L' F2 U R2 D2 F D' B D L' U'
5. 18.56 B2 U L2 F2 U R2 F2 D' R2 F2 U2 R B2 F2 L B U R D2 R' L
6. 23.93 L2 D B2 L2 U' L2 D' B2 U F2 U2 L' B' R' L' F D' B F' U2 F U2
7. 22.10 B2 D' F2 R2 B2 R2 U2 B2 U' F2 D' F' R U2 F U' B' F L2 U F D'
8. 20.41 D2 F2 L2 U B2 F2 R2 D' L2 B2 L D R F' L2 D' F' U' B' D2
9. 23.19 B2 D R2 D' L2 D' L2 B2 D2 L2 U2 R L2 D2 U F R D' L' F' U2
10. 22.72 U' B2 U R2 D2 R2 F2 U2 L2 B2 U' L' D' L2 B D' L' B L' D2 F'
11. 19.62 R2 B2 F2 D F2 U' B2 D2 R2 D2 U' F' U2 B L2 F2 L F' D R F
12. 25.57 D B2 D F2 D R2 U' L2 D2 U' B2 R B2 F2 R D B' F2 U L F' R2


With two 18's and one 19 this makes it a prefectly good Ao12 for me. Sub 20's where very rare not so long ago.


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## sneaklyfox (Apr 25, 2014)

Hurray for being on a roll! I guess I'm still on a roll too... new PB Ao100... 14.94. It's pretty exciting to have a sub-15 Ao100.

Edit: 14.84



Spoiler: Time Distribution



11+: 4
12+: 20
13+: 46
14+: 65
15+: 55
16+: 46
17+: 31
18+: 16
19+: 6
20+: 6
21+: 1


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## mark49152 (Apr 25, 2014)

sneaklyfox said:


> Hurray for being on a roll! I guess I'm still on a roll too... new PB Ao100... 14.94. It's pretty exciting to have a sub-15 Ao100.


Congrats! Seems we're all on a roll . I haven't cubed for a week but will try an average tonight and see whether I'm refreshed or regressed.


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## mark49152 (Apr 26, 2014)

*Marcel's Bar Cross+1 Comp*

Late again, sorry. Special short weekend comp this time!

*Round 6 results*
1. Schmidt 5.70
2. MarcelP 5.90
3. mark49152 6.18
4. ThomasJE 6.22 (EOL+1)

Congrats Schmidt!







*Round 7 scrambles*
1. D B2 F2 R2 U' R2 U B2 U' L2 U2 R B D' B' F D B2 R2 D R2 
2. B2 D' R2 B2 L2 R2 D F2 R2 D F2 R B2 D2 L2 D L' D' U2 B' U 
3. B' D L F2 L2 F R' D' F' L2 D' L2 D' B2 R2 B2 R2 U2 L2 D2 
4. B2 U' B2 U2 F2 R2 B2 L2 D F' R' D' U' B' D B' R' D2 L' U' 
5. R D2 R F' U2 L2 F' D R L2 U2 R2 F2 U L2 D B2 U R2 L2 
6. U' L' D2 R' B2 D' B L2 D' B2 D2 L' B2 U2 L' B2 L D2 L D2 
7. U' F R' U2 L' D2 L2 B' D F B2 L2 U2 R U2 F2 R' D2 L2 D2 R2 
8. U B2 R2 U2 B2 L2 D2 B2 D' L2 D' B' U2 R' U2 L B D F R' U2 
9. F2 D R2 F2 U R2 B2 F2 U B2 D2 F U B R B2 L2 D' U2 F' R' 
10. B2 L R2 B2 L' F2 R' D2 R' U2 R' U' F' L2 U B F U' F U2 F2 
11. F2 U2 F' L2 U2 B L2 D2 B D2 U' L R B' L F2 L2 D2 U' F' 
12. F' R2 B2 D2 U2 R2 F' U2 B R2 F' D L R B' D2 B' D' F' R' F2 

Closing time 04:14 UTC Mon 28 April


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## Rocky0701 (Apr 26, 2014)

mark49152 said:


> *Marcel's Bar Cross+1 Comp*
> 
> Late again, sorry. Special short weekend comp this time!
> 
> ...


Round 7:
Average: 7.42
7.44, 8.94, 6.37, 8.02, (4.71), 8.89, 6.59, (10.39), 7.61, 6.55, 8.65, 5.10
This was my first time timing cross +1 before, and i really enjoyed it and will do it more now.
These times are really slow. I am actually glad about that though so now i have something to work on. I average around 26-27 on full solves.


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## MarcelP (Apr 26, 2014)

sneaklyfox said:


> Hurray for being on a roll! I guess I'm still on a roll too... new PB Ao100... 14.94. It's pretty exciting to have a sub-15 Ao100.
> 
> Edit: 14.84
> 
> ...



That is awesome. Sub 15 sounds so cool  And imagion only one sup 21 in there..

Edit: I just ordered the pre order Weilong V3 the AoLong. Cool stuff


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## MarcelP (Apr 26, 2014)

*Round 7* _Cross + 1_

Best average of 12: *6.02*
1-12 - 6.09 6.95 6.48 5.65 6.86 5.70 (3.73) 6.89 (7.45) 4.62 5.60 5.39


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## 10461394944000 (Apr 26, 2014)

wait, there's a race thing in here? why don't you make a separate thread so other people might see it


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## Rocky0701 (Apr 26, 2014)

10461394944000 said:


> wait, there's a race thing in here? why don't you make a separate thread so other people might see it


Yeah, i agree. Many people would probably like to participate in a cross +1 race, but don't know that there is one.


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## mark49152 (Apr 26, 2014)

Rocky0701 said:


> Yeah, i agree. Many people would probably like to participate in a cross +1 race, but don't know that there is one.


OK - from next round, results and scrambles will appear in their own thread in the competition area.


----------



## Schmidt (Apr 26, 2014)

Schmidt : 6.20 (σ = 1.27)
7.46, 4.53, 6.22, 6.77, 3.47, 5.69, 6.34, 10.55, 8.72, 4.68, 6.33, 5.28


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## Schmidt (Apr 26, 2014)

4x4x4 ao12 sub90
http://www.speedsolving.com/forum/showthread.php?47344-4x4-Race-Thread!-(30-45-1-00-1-30-2-00)&p=973216&viewfull=1#post973216


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## mark49152 (Apr 27, 2014)

Cross+1 round 7
*Average 6.47*
(4.37), 7.96, 5.72, 6.51, (8.02), 6.57, 6.81, 5.71, 7.58, 6.16, 5.14, 6.57

Not good.


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## Rocky0701 (Apr 27, 2014)

mark49152 said:


> OK - from next round, results and scrambles will appear in their own thread in the competition area.


Awesome! Thanks


----------



## MarcelP (Apr 27, 2014)

My youngest is a natural (Feliks watch out): 
[video=youtube_share;RaG6DS4IhVQ]http://youtu.be/RaG6DS4IhVQ[/video]


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## mark49152 (Apr 27, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> My youngest is a natural (Feliks watch out):


Cool - are you teaching him?

Today's progress: broke single full-step PB twice. Was 16.60; got 16.43 then later a 16.01. So close to my first ever 15.xx solve!

16.01: L' F' R' F' B' U D' L D2 U B' L D2 L D F2 D B2 D F2 R2 D L2 D L2
16.43: U B F D R2 B2 F2 R' B' U F D U B F2 U' L B2 R2 F R U2 L B' R


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## Rocky0701 (Apr 28, 2014)

Since you guys do the cross plus 1 races, i figured you guys would want to check out this scramble. It was 5 moves. My full solve time was 19.23 but if i would've timed just the cross + 1 it probably would've been like sub-2. Time it, i want to see what you all can get!
Scramble:
R2 U2 R2 U2 F' R2 F R2 U2 B' F2 U' R2 F L' U2 L' D2 F U2

Solve:
u L2 R2 U2 B2// X Cross


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## mark49152 (Apr 28, 2014)

Rocky0701 said:


> Since you guys do the cross plus 1 races, i figured you guys would want to check out this scramble. It was 5 moves. My full solve time was 19.23 but if i would've timed just the cross + 1 it probably would've been like sub-2. Time it, i want to see what you all can get!
> Scramble:
> R2 U2 R2 U2 F' R2 F R2 U2 B' F2 U' R2 F L' U2 L' D2 F U2
> 
> ...



7.47 screw up - I only do white cross.


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## Rocky0701 (Apr 28, 2014)

mark49152 said:


> 7.47 screw up - I only do white cross.


Sorry, i forgot to say to scramble with your cross color on bottom.


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## MarcelP (Apr 28, 2014)

mark49152 said:


> Cool - are you teaching him?



Nah, he is still too young. He asks me every day for me to teach him. But when I start telling how, he looses interest in litterally 5 seconds.



mark49152 said:


> Today's progress: broke single full-step PB twice. Was 16.60; got 16.43 then later a 16.01. So close to my first ever 15.xx solve!
> 
> 16.01: L' F' R' F' B' U D' L D2 U B' L D2 L D F2 D B2 D F2 R2 D L2 D L2
> 16.43: U B F D R2 B2 F2 R' B' U F D U B F2 U' L B2 R2 F R U2 L B' R



Awesome. Did you break any Ao50-100's?



Rocky0701 said:


> Since you guys do the cross plus 1 races, i figured you guys would want to check out this scramble. It was 5 moves. My full solve time was 19.23 but if i would've timed just the cross + 1 it probably would've been like sub-2. Time it, i want to see what you all can get!
> Scramble:
> R2 U2 R2 U2 F' R2 F R2 U2 B' F2 U' R2 F L' U2 L' D2 F U2
> 
> ...



00.02.44 Yellow cross.. Nice to see a 2X2X1 in inspection


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## mark49152 (Apr 28, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> Awesome. Did you break any Ao50-100's?


No, I did three ao50s yesterday and the fastest was 22.53. PB is 22.13 three weeks ago. I'm on a plateau at the moment with most averages coming in at 23.xx.


----------



## MarcelP (Apr 28, 2014)

mark49152 said:


> No, I did three ao50s yesterday and the fastest was 22.53. PB is 22.13 three weeks ago. I'm on a plateau at the moment with most averages coming in at 23.xx.



Almost all Ao50's of me of the last days where 23.xx. I guess you are faster than me now.


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## mark49152 (Apr 28, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> Almost all Ao50's of me of the last days where 23.xx. I guess you are faster than me now.


Your PBs are all faster than mine, so I don't think so 

Do you track your ao50s? I rarely get time to do 100 solves in one session and 50 seems a good enough sample size to eliminate most lucky or unlucky runs, so that's what I take as the main indicator of my progress. Most (Android) timers don't seem to report ao50.


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## MarcelP (Apr 28, 2014)

mark49152 said:


> Your PBs are all faster than mine, so I don't think so
> 
> Do you track your ao50s? I rarely get time to do 100 solves in one session and 50 seems a good enough sample size to eliminate most lucky or unlucky runs, so that's what I take as the main indicator of my progress. Most (Android) timers don't seem to report ao50.



I do mostly Ao50 for the same reason. I try to do one Ao100 per week. Funny enough are most of my Ao100's faster than the first half of it. So I need to do at least 50 solves before I get to be really fast. Last three Ao100 where sub 23


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## TDM (Apr 28, 2014)

Rocky0701 said:


> R2 U2 R2 U2 F' R2 F R2 U2 B' F2 U' R2 F L' U2 L' D2 F U2


12 moves ETM up to LS+LL, with EO solved. I finished with VHLS and PLL, but you could insert the pair with 2-gen and do 2GLL.


Spoiler



y2 // Inspection
D B2 // 2x2x2 (2/2)
U2 R2 F U2 F2 // XX-cross (5/7)
[D U] R' U R' D' // F2L-3 (5/12)
y U R U' R' U' R U' R2 F R U R U' R' F' // VHLS (15/27)
y2 R2 F2 R U2 R U2 R' F R U R' U' R' F R2 // PLL (15/42)


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## MarcelP (Apr 28, 2014)

mark49152 said:


> Your PBs are all faster than mine, so I don't think so



Ok, when you have the time this week, import these scrambles in PPT and see what you get for this Ao50. I did all on white/yellow cross:

(some cool scrambles in there, I think no 41 is a one or two move white cross)


Spoiler



Mean: 22.48
Average: 22.43
Best time: 17.36
Median: 22.48
Worst time: 30.12
Standard deviation: 2.34

Best average of 5: 20.70
37-41 - 18.43 22.49 (25.45) 21.18 (17.36)

Best average of 12: 21.91
15-26 - 21.20 21.07 (20.36) 22.76 22.46 23.95 22.32 (24.16) 22.09 20.86 21.15 21.23

1. 23.44 D' L2 D R2 B2 D' B2 F2 D2 L2 F2 L' D' U2 L' U' R2 B D' B'
2. 20.96 D2 F2 D' B2 R2 D' B2 U L2 F2 D' F D B' U L' F' L F' D2 L' U'
3. 17.52 D2 R2 D U2 F2 L2 B2 L2 F2 U2 F2 R B R2 F' L' B2 U' R' L2
4. 23.61 F2 D B2 D R2 F2 R2 L2 U L2 D2 F' U2 R D F' D2 B' L' B' D' L'
5. 21.45 U2 F2 R2 D' R2 D B2 L2 D' L2 D' L' F R' U' B' U2 L B U2 B'
6. 26.09 D' F2 U2 L2 D2 L2 D' F2 U L2 F2 R F' L U' L2 D R2 B2 F' R2 L
7. 19.48 D B2 D R2 B2 U' F2 D' U' B2 U R B2 U R2 U' R F L2 D' L U
8. 23.05 L2 U' L2 B2 R2 U' B2 U2 B2 L2 D' R F D B2 D R' F D B U
9. 19.69 R2 B2 R2 U2 R2 D L2 F2 U' B2 U' F' D' R2 U' R B L F' R2 B'
10. 24.21 U' F2 U' L2 B2 L2 D B2 L2 D2 B U L D2 L' B2 F2 U' L' U'
11. 23.92 R2 F2 L2 U B2 R2 U L2 U F2 D F' U R' L2 U R L' B R2 F2
12. 25.33 U R2 D' F2 U F2 R2 U' L2 U2 B2 R' F L2 D2 L' B2 U' R' B L
13. 18.70 R2 L2 U' B2 R2 D2 U' B2 U' R2 F' L2 F' L F' R D2 B U' F D'
14. 24.52 B2 U F2 D U2 B2 U' R2 F2 U' R2 F' D2 R U2 F' U L' U' R2 U'
15. 21.20 U' B2 D2 B2 U' F2 R2 B2 U' B2 L2 B U2 F2 R D2 L2 B L' D B
16. 21.07 U2 R2 B2 R2 U B2 U F2 U2 L2 D' B U2 B U F' U2 R L2 U2 L2 U
17. 20.36 R2 F2 U2 L2 B2 D L2 B2 D' R2 B2 L' U F' R F2 D' U2 B D2 B2 D2
18. 22.76 D' B2 D2 L2 U F2 D' F2 R2 L2 U' R' F U B' R' F' D' B F' D2 U
19. 22.46 D' F2 D' F2 U' L2 D' R2 U L2 D' F' D R2 F L F' R' B L2 B' L
20. 23.95 B2 D' R2 U' B2 L2 D2 L2 U2 B2 D R D U' R F R L' B F2
21. 22.32 U' B2 D R2 D' B2 R2 U2 L2 D F2 L U' B' D2 B' F D' U2 L' B' U'
22. 24.16 U' F2 U' R2 U2 L2 D B2 U' B2 D2 F D2 U2 B R' L' U' F' D2 U
23. 22.09 F2 L2 D L2 B2 L2 U' F2 U R2 D2 L' D2 B U' B R' F U R2 U L'
24. 20.86 B2 L2 B2 D' L2 F2 U' F2 U B2 U' L' D B' F2 D' F' U B2 L' D U
25. 21.15 L2 D2 L2 U B2 L2 F2 R2 L2 D' U2 L U B R B' R L2 U
26. 21.23 D2 U B2 U' B2 L2 B2 U2 L' F D L B2 D' L' B' R D U'
27. 22.99 D' L2 D L2 D2 L2 F2 U' R2 B2 D2 F' R' L2 F D' U B2 R' L' D2 U
28. 24.42 B2 D R2 B2 R2 D' F2 D U2 F2 D' B R D' B' U2 R D' B R2 U2
29. 21.17 D' B2 D B2 U R2 D' L2 D B2 R F L' F2 D2 B' U' B2 D' B' U2
30. 22.40 U R2 F2 D2 B2 U' R2 L2 F2 L2 U F' R2 L2 U' L' D F D R' B' U
31. 22.22 B2 U2 L2 D' L2 U2 B2 L2 F2 D B2 L' D U' R2 L' D' R F L' D2
32. 30.12 D' B2 R2 D R2 D L2 B2 R2 D2 U' R B' R2 D2 R D' F L' U R' U'
33. 24.56 D U2 B2 U' R2 U L2 F2 R2 U' R2 F' R' U2 R' L U2 B U L2 F U'
34. 23.07 U' L2 F2 D R2 U2 R2 U R2 U' F2 R' F2 D B' R2 F' R' U2 R' D2
35. 20.76 L2 F2 D' F2 R2 U2 F2 U2 B2 R D' U' B U' R' D' B R U'
36. 23.58 F2 U2 B2 U' L2 D' F2 L2 D' R2 D L B2 U B2 U2 B' R F' D R2 D2
37. 18.43 D R2 D' R2 U R2 D' B2 U2 F2 U' L F' D2 L' D2 B D U R' B' D2
38. 22.49 D' B2 U R2 B2 U B2 D U L2 U F' L D B R2 F L' F' U R' U2
39. 25.45 U2 R2 B2 L2 U' B2 D' B2 U B2 D' R' B' D2 L U' B F' R2 B2 D U'
40. 21.18 B2 U2 R2 F2 D F2 R2 D B2 F2 R2 F' L' D B2 D2 U' R B2 D' B U2
41. 17.36 U2 L2 B2 R2 D' R2 U L2 U L2 F' D F' U F2 R F D'
42. 23.92 D2 B2 U' F2 L2 U L2 B2 U2 L2 D2 B' R2 D2 R' B' D' F' D' B D2
43. 24.56 L2 D U F2 R2 U' R2 D B2 U B2 R F L' F D F2 R' D R U'
44. 21.09 L2 B2 U R2 L2 B2 U' B2 L2 F2 D F' U' R2 U R D2 L U' B' L' U2
45. 24.05 U' R2 L2 F2 D B2 R2 U L2 D L2 B R U' L B D F' R B' D' U
46. 25.15 U' F2 D' U2 B2 R2 D' F2 L2 B U2 R B2 F R U B R' B2 L'
47. 19.55 U' B2 D' B2 D R2 B2 R2 F2 U' L2 B R U L' B2 D' F2 R F2 L2
48. 21.32 U B2 U L2 D R2 U' L2 U' B2 U' L' B' D U2 R' L2 U2 B D' F'
49. 25.17 B2 D L2 U L2 U B2 F2 R2 D' R2 B R2 U' F' R' L' U R F L U2
50. 23.31 B2 U2 B2 R2 U' L2 D' L2 U2 F2 R2 F' D B U L' U' F2 L' F' D U'


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## mark49152 (Apr 28, 2014)

OK the cross+1 results and next round is posted here: http://www.speedsolving.com/forum/showthread.php?47386-New-CFOP-Substep-Competition

Please support the competition and let's keep the mutual encouragement going!


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## Schmidt (Apr 28, 2014)

Spoiler: That ao50



20.63, 23.75, 25.63, 20.53, 21.06, 19.19, 25.13, 17.50, 28.50, 19.18, 23.31, *15.16(PB)*, 23.33, 23.19, 22.81, 20.25, 21.77, 22.83, 25.53, 25.06, 20.36, 17.33, 20.90, 22.08, 19.81, 21.15, 21.90, 22.75, 22.52, 21.78, 25.84, 24.56, 19.72, 28.15, 22.02, 24.56, 24.94, 19.28, 26.77, 20.41, 19.52, 19.78,* 19.71(born this year)*, 21.46, 23.15, 27.58, 22.83, 22.69, 25.75, 22.55
stats: (hide)
number of times: 50/50
best time: 15.16
worst time: 28.50


current avg5: 23.76 (σ = 1.73)
best avg5: 19.90 (σ = 0.46)


current avg12: 22.51 (σ = 2.36)
best avg12: 21.50 (σ = 2.42)


current avg50: 22.32 (σ = 2.11)
best avg50: *22.32* (σ = 2.11)


I was sitting outside when I did this. From solve 30 it was getting darker. The last 5 solves were done by the light of my iPad and the bright stickers on my weilong.


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## MarcelP (Apr 28, 2014)

Schmidt said:


> Spoiler: That ao50
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Nice times Schmidt with 15 in there.


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## MarcelP (Apr 29, 2014)

New Ao100 PB!! Stackmatted.. before work..



Spoiler



Mean: 21.89
Average: 21.89
Best time: 16.51
Median: 22.04
Worst time: 27.15
Standard deviation: 2.13

Best average of 5: 19.66
13-17 - 20.75 (22.16) (16.51) 18.59 19.65

Best average of 12: 20.45
6-17 - 20.74 22.13 18.04 20.52 21.63 (24.79) 20.24 20.75 22.16 (16.51) 18.59 19.65

1. 24.84 B2 D2 B2 D' B2 L2 U L2 F2 L2 D' F' D R2 L' F' D U2 F' U L'
2. 24.01 F2 R2 F2 D' B2 D B2 L2 D R2 U L U L2 F R U' L B L B2 D
3. 24.70 U B2 F2 L2 U2 B2 L2 U' B2 D' F' U' L' D2 B D2 R D' L2 F'
4. 22.93 D' R2 F2 U' F2 D' L2 U2 B2 R2 U' B' U F L' F D R' L U2 L
5. 22.52 D2 B2 R2 D L2 D' F2 L2 B2 L2 U2 F' L B2 F2 L' U2 R2 U' F' L2
6. 20.74 B2 R2 L2 F2 U' L2 U' B2 D2 F2 U R' U2 L' D B2 L2 F' R2 U' R
7. 22.13 B2 R2 U2 B2 R2 D' B2 R2 D R2 L2 F' U' B L B' L2 B' D U' R U2
8. 18.04 D B2 L2 D F2 U' L2 F2 U2 L U R B' U L B U' R F' U
9. 20.52 B2 R2 B2 R2 U' R2 B2 U2 F2 D2 U F D B2 L' B2 U R' B2 U2 B
10. 21.63 L2 B2 F2 D' F2 U B2 D F2 R2 F2 R U' F2 U' R B' D' L U' L2
11. 24.79 U' L2 F2 U' B2 D2 L2 U' F2 U' L2 F U2 L U2 B' U' F' U F2 U L'
12. 20.24 D' R2 D' B2 L2 B2 R2 U' L2 F2 U' L' B2 R' D' R2 F L2 B' U R
13. 20.75 D' F2 U' F2 U B2 U R2 D L2 U' R F2 R2 F L F L' F2 D2 F' U
14. 22.16 L2 U F2 U' L2 B2 D2 R2 F2 U' B' R2 D2 U F' D B2 L2 F' L' U'
15. 16.51 F2 D' L2 F2 D' L2 B2 D' L2 U' L2 F R2 L' D U' R' L F2 R
16. 18.59 F2 L2 U2 R2 F2 D2 B2 L2 U B2 U B' F D' B' F R' B' U' B U2
17. 19.65 U2 B2 D L2 F2 R2 D B2 U' L2 D' R' F' U F2 R2 U R L F U'
18. 22.63 U2 F2 D' F2 R2 U2 L2 D F2 L2 U L B2 D' U2 R2 B R' U2 B2 U'
19. 27.05 U R2 D' U2 R2 B2 D R2 L2 D F U' F2 U F' R' F2 L U R2
20. 22.75 L2 D' F2 U2 F2 R2 D F2 U L2 U2 R F D2 F D2 U2 R2 U' L U'
21. 24.05 R2 L2 U L2 B2 L2 D L2 U L2 U2 R' D2 B L U2 B' D B U R2
22. 19.99 L2 F2 R2 D' F2 R2 D2 U' L2 B2 U B' U2 R' U2 B' R' F L U
23. 22.21 U B2 U' B2 F2 U L2 D2 F2 L2 D B' U' B' L' F' U2 R' F2 D B2 R
24. 18.40 L2 B2 L2 D' B2 U2 L2 D2 R2 F2 D' L D' R2 B2 F' D2 R2 U2 F' R2 D'
25. 22.38 U L2 D2 L2 U' B2 U2 F2 D' R2 B2 R B2 F' U' F' D R2 F' U2 R' D'
26. 20.39 U' F2 U' L2 F2 L2 D L2 B2 U' R2 F' L B F U B' D2 U' F D' U
27. 24.24 U2 R2 D2 L2 D B2 D R2 L2 U2 L2 B' R U2 F' R2 D2 B2 U F' R' U'
28. 18.27 U' R2 B2 D U2 F2 L2 U2 R2 F2 U' F U2 R F2 R2 U' B' F' D2 L F'
29. 24.01 U R2 L2 F2 L2 U' L2 U' F2 D' L' B' R2 B' R U B R D U' L'
30. 23.12 F2 D' R2 B2 F2 D U2 B2 R2 D' B2 L B D2 R D2 F2 D R2 B2 D'
31. 24.87 F2 R2 D2 F2 D' L2 F2 D' R2 F2 D R U2 B' R L' F2 R' D2 U R' D2
32. 24.71 B2 F2 D' U' L2 F2 U L2 U' R2 U' B' U B D L F R' D2 B2 D' U'
33. 21.75 B2 L2 B2 R2 L2 D L2 U2 L2 U' R2 F' U2 R D2 F2 D' B' D2 B2 R L2
34. 22.80 R2 U2 B2 U R2 D' U2 B2 U' R2 B2 L' U B R2 L B F R2 B' L U'
35. 22.65 D B2 D' F2 L2 F2 L2 F2 U2 B2 D R' U2 B' D L' B2 F D R' D' U'
36. 19.57 B2 U R2 B2 D2 L2 F2 U B' D2 U R B' F' L' B L2 B2
37. 20.62 F2 U' L2 U F2 L2 U2 B2 F2 R2 D2 L' D2 B R L B' D L U R
38. 20.79 B2 F2 R2 U B2 D' R2 D' F2 R2 U' R F' R2 B' F2 U2 R L U B L'
39. 23.20 B2 U L2 U R2 U2 R2 F2 D' F2 U2 R' F D2 U L' B' D2 F' D B' U
40. 19.24 B2 D' R2 L2 D2 L2 D' B2 D B2 D2 R' U2 B' F R' U2 L' B2 D'
41. 24.02 R2 U' F2 U' R2 L2 D' U2 L2 D L R2 F L' B' U2 R D L2 B U
42. 19.86 D' R2 F2 U R2 D F2 D' F2 U' B2 R' D' U' B2 R D' B F2 R2 L U'
43. 24.46 D U B2 L2 B2 F2 L2 D' R2 U' B' D' F2 R' F' U' R B U2 B2
44. 22.05 F2 D' B2 D2 F2 U' L2 D R2 D2 B U' B2 L' D' R D2 F D2 L2
45. 22.15 D2 L2 B2 F2 U B2 R2 D B2 D' U2 F L2 U F' R' D2 R' B' F2 D' L'
46. 21.65 F2 R2 B2 D B2 F2 D L2 D F R' F L2 D2 R' L2 D U' L
47. 22.36 U' L2 F2 L2 U2 B2 D U2 R2 F2 R2 B' U' F2 U L2 U' L' U2 F2 D2
48. 21.27 D R2 B2 F2 U' L2 D F2 U L2 D' F' B2 R' D' U B R' U' R2 L
49. 24.72 L2 D F2 R2 D U R2 F2 D R2 U' F L' D' R' L2 B F U2 B R2
50. 20.76 F2 D2 F2 L2 U' B2 R2 U F2 D2 U' R' D2 F D B F' R2 D2 U' R U'
51. 19.25 L2 B2 D' B2 L2 D' L2 D R2 F2 L2 B F' R2 D B' R L F' D' U R
52. 21.75 B2 U' F2 D U R2 B2 U R2 L2 D B L2 U R U' L' D R U' B L'
53. 22.19 D2 R2 F2 D L2 U L2 U' B2 U2 L2 F D' L B' D' U R' U2 R2 F U2
54. 22.69 R2 F2 R2 B2 D2 R2 F2 L2 D' R2 U' L' F' R2 L2 F L' F2 R B' D
55. 18.79 L2 U R2 U2 R2 D2 B2 U' F2 U L2 F D' F U2 R D' B L F D2 U
56. 23.78 B2 U L2 B2 L2 B2 U L2 D F2 D' R' D R' D' F' D L U F R2 U'
57. 22.61 B2 L2 U' L2 D B2 U B2 U R2 L2 B' U2 L' U F' U' B2 D R' B2 U'
58. 20.02 B2 U2 F2 U R2 L2 U2 L2 D B2 L2 F R' F L U B' D2 B F' L'
59. 20.21 F2 D' L2 U2 R2 L2 U L2 B2 D2 B2 L D' L B' D' U' L2 F L' B' U
60. 18.27 F2 L2 D R2 D R2 U' B2 U' B2 F2 L U2 B2 F D2 U L F' U F
61. 23.63 L2 U' F2 L2 F2 U2 B2 U' R2 D U R' B2 L' D2 F D U' B D2 U' R2
62. 22.28 B2 D2 U' F2 D R2 D' L2 B2 L2 U2 F' R' D U B2 D' B2 F2 R2 F' U'
63. 22.64 D U' F2 U' L2 F2 R2 F2 D B2 R2 F D' F' L' F2 D B L D2 R'
64. 21.17 B2 L2 D' R2 D2 F2 U F2 R2 U F2 R D' L2 B' U2 L' F D' R' F'
65. 16.83 D' B2 F2 D' F2 D' B2 L2 D2 U' R2 F R B2 F' U2 L2 D' U2 B' R U
66. 25.84 R2 L2 D' L2 U2 B2 U' F2 D F2 R' F' D U2 B2 L' D L B R2 U'
67. 22.03 R2 B2 R2 U2 F2 D B2 D' L2 D2 F2 R B2 D' F' R' L U R' B' R
68. 24.50 B2 F2 U B2 F2 D R2 B2 U' B2 U' R' B F' R2 U' R L' U' F L'
69. 22.47 R2 B2 F2 U R2 U B2 F2 D' B2 D' R' F D' L' D' U' L U2 R2 U2
70. 27.15 F2 D U R2 D F2 R2 U' L2 F2 U2 B F R2 D' U' L' D B2 R L U'
71. 21.86 B2 F2 D2 L2 U' R2 L2 B2 U L2 U R F' D B2 R' F' R B' U2 L2 U2
72. 23.05 F2 D' R2 B2 U' B2 L2 D' U2 L2 F2 L F' L2 D2 U B2 D R B D' U'
73. 20.80 B2 U2 F2 D' L2 D' L2 D2 L2 D' B2 L' U' F' U L' D' B' R' U2 B2 D2
74. 20.36 D' R2 D F2 L2 D2 L2 D R2 U L2 F U' R2 L B D U2 F' L' U2 L2
75. 24.71 B2 U' B2 F2 U B2 R2 F2 U2 R2 D2 L' F R' D' R B2 D F2 R2 U'
76. 22.71 B2 U2 L2 D' B2 F2 D2 L2 D L2 D' L' D2 L B F R B' L2 U F2 D'
77. 20.32 U2 F2 D B2 F2 U2 L2 U' B2 R2 D' F' L' F D' R' L2 B' F2 U' R2
78. 19.21 U B2 U2 L2 D' B2 F2 U F2 U B L' D2 B2 F L F D B F' U
79. 23.53 U' B2 D2 U' F2 U2 R2 U' F2 R2 U R U B2 F U2 L2 D L' B' D2 R'
80. 21.32 D' B2 L2 U L2 B2 U B2 R2 F2 R2 F' L U' B2 L B R F' U' B' U
81. 19.89 F2 U2 L2 U2 R2 B2 U L2 D L2 D2 F' U L B D2 F R2 D R U2
82. 21.40 R2 B2 L2 U2 B2 L2 D B2 U R2 D' L' B' D F' D2 R2 D' L2 F' U2
83. 21.91 U' B2 F2 D2 R2 F2 L2 D' R2 D' R2 F' D B U2 L B2 R L D' L' U'
84. 21.69 U2 R2 B2 U' L2 D F2 D B2 U2 R D F2 R F' R2 U2 B L' B2 U'
85. 19.51 F2 U F2 U2 R2 U' R2 U' L2 U B U' F2 L F R' B L2 B2 U2
86. 25.87 B2 U' B2 U2 B2 F2 U R2 D' F2 D' L D B2 R' L' D B' R' U2 F L2
87. 18.17 B2 U R2 U L2 F2 L2 F2 U L2 U' B' R2 U L' U B2 D2 B2 F' L' U'
88. 23.26 D F2 R2 D2 R2 D' B2 U' F2 R U F U2 F2 U' B R' D U2 L2 U2
89. 20.74 D2 R2 U2 R2 F2 L2 F2 D' R2 F2 D' L' B' U2 R' L D U F' U F2 L'
90. 20.39 B2 U2 R2 D R2 U' F2 U2 R2 D' B' R2 F' D' B2 F' D' R U R
91. 22.56 L2 D' F2 L2 U2 B2 D2 L2 U' L2 U' F' D' L B D' L B' D2 L2 D2
92. 21.34 D' F2 D2 F2 R2 F2 L2 D' R2 U' B R' D2 R' B2 D2 B L' U F2 U2
93. 22.82 R2 D B2 U B2 D2 R2 B2 D' R2 D' B' L2 D2 L D R D F' U2 R U'
94. 19.91 R2 B2 D' L2 B2 F2 D2 U R2 B2 D2 B' F R' B L2 F2 D2 U' F2 D
95. 22.18 F2 L2 U' B2 D B2 F2 L2 B2 U2 L' U2 B U' F L U2 B2 U2 R' D'
96. 21.54 R2 B2 D' U2 R2 D B2 D2 U F2 U' B U2 F2 D L' F R D2 F L U'
97. 21.24 U' L2 B2 R2 U2 R2 D B2 F2 D' L2 B L' U' B L2 B2 D' L F' U' F
98. 25.36 D' U R2 L2 U' F2 U' L2 U' B2 U2 F D2 F D' L B F2 D' L' U L'
99. 21.34 D' L2 U2 F2 U R2 B2 D' L2 B2 R2 F R B2 L' F2 U F2 R' F' D2
100. 24.51 U2 R2 L2 B2 L2 D' B2 D' B2 D2 F2 L' R2 D2 L2 F' U2 B R' B'



The first Ao50 was 21.95 with Weilong V2, then the last 50 where with Dian Ma. Best Ao12 was 0.06 away from PB.


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## mark49152 (Apr 29, 2014)

Nice one, see, you will stay faster than me for a while yet .

How much inspection time do you use? There's no way I could complete an ao100 in less than one hour.


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## MarcelP (Apr 29, 2014)

mark49152 said:


> Nice one, see, you will stay faster than me for a while yet .
> 
> How much inspection time do you use? There's no way I could complete an ao100 in less than one hour.



I think 4 - 5 secs on average. That is the advantage of CN. Easy crosses are easily spotted. I scramble quite fast these days.. and then average sub 22 helps also


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## mark49152 (Apr 29, 2014)

Blind cross practice has taught me what a big difference there is between hard and easy crosses. Sometimes I struggle to memorise the whole solution or get it wrong and mess up the edges.


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## MarcelP (Apr 29, 2014)

mark49152 said:


> Blind cross practice has taught me what a big difference there is between hard and easy crosses. Sometimes I struggle to memorise the whole solution or get it wrong and mess up the edges.



Yeah I know what you mean. I do not practice blind crosses anymore. It's just that I can plan out crosses perfectly and execute them with sight. Blind I totally mess up everything. I just filmed an Ao12 in my lunch break and I had a 14.xx in there. I will try to upload it. I have a new system (Linux) and I am not familliar with editing video etc.

EDIT: It worked:

3. 14.54 F2 L2 U2 F2 U' L2 U R2 U' F2 U2 R' D2 U' R D' F' R L2 D

[video=youtube_share;4o3ntwNi_mY]http://youtu.be/4o3ntwNi_mY[/video]


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## pipkiksass (Apr 29, 2014)

Jumping on the improvement bandwagon!

I've been doing some blind cross practice, but more just focussing on executing my cross while staring vaguely at the cube, which is something Marcel talked about the other day! I'm trying harder to look ahead while solving, and it's really paying dividends. I don't have a great deal of time for cubing, so I find it hard to not just do timed solves. 

Today I did an Ao50 on my lunchbreak, but tried to focus on looking ahead and slow(er) turning. My Ao50 PB before this session was 18.38 and, after solve 49, the session average was 18.0x. I'm not going to lie and say that the 50th solve didn't feel fast, but I wasn't turning in surges, it was steady and consistent... and 13.33 (NL pb by .24). I had no less than 5 13s in the session, 4 of which full-step, and 3 of which (13.36, 13.55 and 13.33) were below my old PB (13.57)!





Spoiler: breakdown



22s = 3
21s = 3
20s = 1
19s = 6
18s = 15
17s = 8
16s = 4
15s = 3
14s = 2
13s = 5


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## mark49152 (Apr 29, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> Yeah I know what you mean. I do not practice blind crosses anymore. It's just that I can plan out crosses perfectly and execute them with sight. Blind I totally mess up everything.


Yeah that's kind of the point of blind practice . If you depend on sight to solve the cross then it impairs look ahead to the first pair. The objective of blind practice is not to improve cross execution but to improve look ahead to the first pair. Having said that, I don't think blind alone is enough - just like when practising F2L blind, it's the tracking of the next pair that really forces you to not mentally watch the cross edges being solved.



pipkiksass said:


> I've been doing some blind cross practice, but more just focussing on executing my cross while staring vaguely at the cube, which is something Marcel talked about the other day! I'm trying harder to look ahead while solving, and it's really paying dividends.


Yeah look ahead is magical. The difference between my good runs and crap runs is usually look ahead. I can feel it working - it's a bit like being in the zone, and when not in the zone, everything breaks down. Do you remember those weird 3D pictures that were a fad in the 90s? Like a page of random patterns, and if you defocus and stare through it, after a while a 3D animal or something pops out? For me, look ahead is a bit like that


----------



## kcl (Apr 29, 2014)

Rocky0701 said:


> Since you guys do the cross plus 1 races, i figured you guys would want to check out this scramble. It was 5 moves. My full solve time was 19.23 but if i would've timed just the cross + 1 it probably would've been like sub-2. Time it, i want to see what you all can get!
> Scramble:
> R2 U2 R2 U2 F' R2 F R2 U2 B' F2 U' R2 F L' U2 L' D2 F U2
> 
> ...



Solve was7.21, timed the Xcross again. Got 1.04


----------



## pipkiksass (Apr 29, 2014)

mark49152 said:


> Yeah look ahead is magical. The difference between my good runs and crap runs is usually look ahead. I can feel it working - it's a bit like being in the zone, and when not in the zone, everything breaks down. Do you remember those weird 3D pictures that were a fad in the 90s? Like a page of random patterns, and if you defocus and stare through it, after a while a 3D animal or something pops out? For me, look ahead is a bit like that



Could not agree more. You can scream 'slow down and look ahead' at me till you're blue in the face, but I'll still try to go fast. It's *speed*solving, not *slow*solving, dummy! Counterintuitive as it may be, it's absolutely right. 

As for the staring 'through' the cube, that's a good analogy - I remember these pictures well, and it's a similar feeling to the 'zone' feeling. You aren't rushing to find a pair, you're just kind of aware of it.

Kind of!


----------



## mark49152 (Apr 29, 2014)

pipkiksass said:


> You aren't rushing to find a pair, you're just kind of aware of it.


Sometimes I find myself solving a pair and I'm not sure when or how I saw where it was, or when or how I decided how to solve it. It just kind of happened.


----------



## MarcelP (Apr 30, 2014)

pipkiksass said:


> Jumping on the improvement bandwagon!



Awesome! I wish I had these times.

Everyone: About cross + 1. Check out these walkthrough solves from Colin:

He spots his first pair in inspection all the time.

http://youtu.be/oFZ4aG3Wavs


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## pipkiksass (Apr 30, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> Awesome! I wish I had these times.



Thanks Marcel - I remember being inspired by your posts when I first joined the forum. They showed me that, as an older cuber, I might one day not be slow!


----------



## mark49152 (Apr 30, 2014)

pipkiksass said:


> Thanks Marcel - I remember being inspired by your posts when I first joined the forum. They showed me that, as an older cuber, I might one day not be slow!


Yeah I second that. Marcel, Pip, sneaklyfox and the mutual encouragement offered in this thread have made this a more enjoyable hobby for me, and are the main reason I read the forums. As an older cuber, I don't know any other cubers IRL, and so this is the only place I get to talk about my passion.


----------



## MarcelP (Apr 30, 2014)

Thanks guys. Of course you do inspire me too. @mark, you should definatly go to a competition when you can. There are people of all ages and all share the same passion. And getting official times makes it more worth for me.


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## mark49152 (Apr 30, 2014)

I'd love to go to a comp, but any spare time I have is spent with my family. Disappearing to a comp for a day or two would not go down well


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## sneaklyfox (Apr 30, 2014)

pipkiksass said:


> Jumping on the improvement bandwagon!
> 
> I've been doing some blind cross practice, but more just focussing on executing my cross while staring vaguely at the cube, which is something Marcel talked about the other day! I'm trying harder to look ahead while solving, and it's really paying dividends. I don't have a great deal of time for cubing, so I find it hard to not just do timed solves.
> 
> Today I did an Ao50 on my lunchbreak, but tried to focus on looking ahead and slow(er) turning. My Ao50 PB before this session was 18.38 and, after solve 49, the session average was 18.0x. I'm not going to lie and say that the 50th solve didn't feel fast, but I wasn't turning in surges, it was steady and consistent... and 13.33 (NL pb by .24). I had no less than 5 13s in the session, 4 of which full-step, and 3 of which (13.36, 13.55 and 13.33) were below my old PB (13.57)!



Awesome, pip!


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## kcl (May 1, 2014)

*Hi, Marcel from Holland here*

I remember thinking how fast all of you were when I first joined.. It feels like I've been here forever haha.


----------



## Rocky0701 (May 1, 2014)

I remember how fast i used to think sub 30 was when when i was averaging a minute. Now three months later, when i am almost sub 25, i am still horribly slow.


----------



## mark49152 (May 1, 2014)

There was a time when I doubted I could get sub-30, and thought that if I ever did, I would be pushing my limits and couldn't go much further. Now I'm shooting for sub-20.and have some confidence that I could get sub-15 with time. It's taken me a year and a half to get here though.


----------



## kcl (May 1, 2014)

mark49152 said:


> There was a time when I doubted I could get sub-30, and thought that if I ever did, I would be pushing my limits and couldn't go much further. Now I'm shooting for sub-20.and have some confidence that I could get sub-15 with time. It's taken me a year and a half to get here though.



Once I said I would focus on school more once I got sub 10. I am now sub 10.. And.. I was wrong


----------



## sneaklyfox (May 1, 2014)

kclejeune said:


> I remember thinking how fast all of you were when I first joined.. It feels like I've been here forever haha.



Wait... is that a compliment or an insult?


----------



## kcl (May 1, 2014)

sneaklyfox said:


> Wait... is that a compliment or an insult?


Compliment  

I was sup 30 when I joined, all of you were honestly inspiration.


----------



## MarcelP (May 1, 2014)

kclejeune said:


> I remember thinking how fast all of you were when I first joined.. It feels like I've been here forever haha.



If there is one person that mad enormous progress here it's you.  I wonder if I would have been as young as you if my progress might have been faster. Keep it up and you will be up there with Feliks and Mats someday.



mark49152 said:


> There was a time when I doubted I could get sub-30, and thought that if I ever did, I would be pushing my limits and couldn't go much further. Now I'm shooting for sub-20.and have some confidence that I could get sub-15 with time. It's taken me a year and a half to get here though.



Sub 20 might come in reach for me some day. But sub 15 seems to fast for me. When I started out I was introduced into CFOP by Guus (http://www.speedsolving.com/wiki/index.php/Guus_Razoux_Schultz). He is a collegue of mine. He was in the first worldchampionship in 1982 and he became second. His best time was 24 seconds I think. Doing 24 seconds on a storebought Rubiks cube is still quite an achievement I think. anyway, he conviced me to do fingertricks instead of wrist moves etc. He convinced me to learn F2L instead of keyhole (what I was doing since kid) and he convinced me to learn full OLL. I always hoped to get an official single faster than his world championship single and last year I did (21 seconds). His current best official average is 17.xx Now sub 20 will be a lot of hard work but doable. I highly doubt at my age (turning 45 this year) I will be breaking Guus' offical average. I would be perfectly happy sticking with my current times the rest of my live btw.  I enjoy cube too much for me to fuss about really a few seconds this and that.


----------



## mark49152 (May 1, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> Sub 20 might come in reach for me some day. But sub 15 seems to fast for me.


Sub-15 is not too fast for you. You are pushing sub-20 now, you have solved sub-15 before, and you're continuing to make progress. One day you will get there.

The reason I say I can reach sub-15 some day is that I once thought sub-20 was out of reach and now it's close. I know sub-15 will take a lot of practice and probably some more technique breakthroughs (like cross+1 ), but it's a realistic goal. The other day I had a 16.01 full step solve. It wasn't superhuman or particularly lucky. Just all the ingredients came together right - lookahead, recognition, algorithm flow, no fumbles or locks. If I can do that on one solve, I should be able to apply it more consistently with practice. Sub-15 doesn't mean I have to push physical limits and increase finger speed by 50%, etc. Only 4tps is needed and I'm capable of that now.

One day you will beat Guus's average and it will feel great


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## MarcelP (May 1, 2014)

mark49152 said:


> Sub-15 is not too fast for you. You are pushing sub-20 now, you have solved sub-15 before, and you're continuing to make progress. One day you will get there.
> 
> ...
> 
> One day you will beat Guus's average and it will feel great



I have no doubt you will get there. You have what it takes to be that determined (like a pro). I am more of an amateur


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## mark49152 (May 1, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> I have no doubt you will get there. You have what it takes to be that determined (like a pro). I am more of an amateur


Aww man, come on, that's one of the silliest things I've heard you say! . Your consistent dedication and enthusiasm for cubing is inspirational to many on here, and that's just the quality you need to get there. If you just keep going, it will happen.

Maybe cross+1 is the key


----------



## pipkiksass (May 1, 2014)

Rocky0701 said:


> I remember how fast i used to think sub 30 was when when i was averaging a minute. Now three months later, when i am almost sub 25, i am still horribly slow.





mark49152 said:


> There was a time when I doubted I could get sub-30, and thought that if I ever did, I would be pushing my limits and couldn't go much further. Now I'm shooting for sub-20.and have some confidence that I could get sub-15 with time. It's taken me a year and a half to get here though.



When I first joined, my ambition was to get sub-30. Then sub-20. In the last 12 months I've gone from about 26 second average to 18/19. Today (after my first ever cross + 1 session) I had my first non-lucky (let's not get contentious about luck, please Mark!) sub-13 single - 12.78 fullstep. It didn't even feel that fast, just smooth. 

I'm pretty sure I can be sub-15 someday, and certain that I'll have sub-10 singles - I just need to focus on looking ahead. Mark's substep race has proved to me that my cross + 1 is slowing me down MASSIVELY. I was always aware of this, but not the extent of it. I think the key to everything is lookahead - 4TPS is not _that_ fast if you're solving smoothly. Where we're all going wrong is trying to be fast, not trying to be smooth. They should change the name of the forum to smoothsolving.com to encourage this. I suggest everyone stop what they're doing and look ahead immediately, and we all average sub-10.


----------



## sneaklyfox (May 1, 2014)

pipkiksass said:


> I suggest everyone stop what they're doing and look ahead immediately, and we all average sub-10.



Let's do it.


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## MarcelP (May 2, 2014)

pipkiksass said:


> Where we're all going wrong is trying to be fast, not trying to be smooth. They should change the name of the forum to smoothsolving.com to encourage this. I suggest everyone stop what they're doing and look ahead immediately, and we all average sub-10.



LOL..

In my lunch break did an Ao12. It was high 22. Bleh.. But.. there where two 15's in there, right after each other. I do not think I have ever done that. Full step and on film. I can't wait to finish work and watch the video tonight. I am pretty sure those two must have been pretty smooth.. :0


EDIT:



Spoiler



I don think this has happend before..

15.81 B2 F2 L2 D' B2 U' L2 D2 L2 B2 U' B' U2 R D B U' B' U L2 U2
15.56 R2 U2 B2 U F2 U' R2 F2 U' B2 U2 B L' U R2 F U' R D L B U2



[video=youtube_share;77wae6oPk5Y]http://youtu.be/77wae6oPk5Y[/video]


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## sneaklyfox (May 2, 2014)

Two 15's in a row! You're doing well!


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## MarcelP (May 4, 2014)

I did not have a lot of practice time the last few days. I just did an Ao50 of 23.79.. Yuk!

But there was a 

44. 13.58 U R2 D R2 U' L2 D F2 U2 R2 F2 R U B' F' R' D' R' F'

I could preserve the pair I spotted in inspection. It is on white cross. So all try if you could make a nice time with this scramble please:

I did:


Spoiler



x2 y // inspection, look at red/green pair on UBR
D' L2 y L' U L U2 R2 // X-Cross
R U R' U' R' U2 R U' F' U //2RD pair.. and wat do you know? 3rd pair is made 
U L U' L' // 3RD pair
R U2 R' U R U R' // Complete F2L
OLL etc
etc


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## Logiqx (May 8, 2014)

Reading the progress of you guys + gals has been quite inspiring.

How much time do you typically spend cubing each day, either in minutes, number of exercises or number of solves?

Since the survey about cuber ages and solve times, I am keen to improve my 3x3 average. I started timing my 4x4 solves last week and got myself an AoSu yesterday so I'm looking to get those down as well. My cubing is somewhat sporadic and I typically practice for a few days then I do nothing for a few days, perhaps a week. It's tough fitting it in around work, social and other hobbies! This leads to my times getting faster, slower, faster, slower but the general trend is getting faster.

I'm hoping to take time out during lunchtimes so that I can practice regularly on week days. I don't get to practice at weekends because my girlfriend hates the "clickety-clackety" noise.

I'm lagging behind you guys but you've inspired me to improve! Interested to know how much you practice...


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## mark49152 (May 8, 2014)

Logiqx said:


> How much time do you typically spend cubing each day, either in minutes, number of exercises or number of solves?


I try to find time to do at least an ao50 each day, plus some exercises like blind cross, F2L pairs or drilling algs. It does depend on other time pressures though. Things like PLL drills I will often do absent-mindedly while on the phone. This week I've only had time for about 10 solves total and my average has dropped by about 2-3 seconds


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## MarcelP (May 8, 2014)

mark49152 said:


> This week I've only had time for about 10 solves total and my average has dropped by about 2-3 seconds



Dropped in the meaning slower? That sucks. I know my english sucks but I have been using the dropped word wrongly for ever then LOL.

I do the same as you Mark. I try to do at least one Ao50 per day. But I try to do one Ao100 per week. I do some excersises besides that. F2L cases, blind cross (yeah I have picked that up after your last comments on the matter).


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## mark49152 (May 8, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> Dropped in the meaning slower? That sucks. I know my english sucks but I have been using the dropped word wrongly for ever then LOL.


Your English is better than mine . Yes I am slower this week as well as making less sense.


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## Rocky0701 (May 8, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> Dropped in the meaning slower? That sucks. I know my english sucks but I have been using the dropped word wrongly for ever then LOL.
> 
> I do the same as you Mark. I try to do at least one Ao50 per day. But I try to do one Ao100 per week. I do some excersises besides that. F2L cases, blind cross (yeah I have picked that up after your last comments on the matter).


You are using dropped right, Mark was using it wrong


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## Logiqx (May 8, 2014)

Thanks for the replies. I'm going to try to practice more regularly and see what happens over the next few weeks.

I'm going on holiday soon so I might get some practice if I'm "allowed" to cube. Plane flights should be a good opportunity!


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## Rocky0701 (May 8, 2014)

Logiqx said:


> Thanks for the replies. I'm going to try to practice more regularly and see what happens over the next few weeks.
> 
> I'm going on holiday soon so I might get some practice if I'm "allowed" to cube. Plane flights should be a good opportunity!


Wow, look how close are PB's are to each other. We're cubing twins Lol!


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## Logiqx (May 8, 2014)

Hehe. I'd noticed that as well. I think my Ao100 might be identical as well.

Edit... Ao100 25.30


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## sk8erman41 (May 8, 2014)

Marcel- Any further thoughts on color neutrality? I know in the CFOP substep thread you were saying that your white cross yielded better results. I know you have been color neutral (with a slight preference for W/Y as a fallback) for awhile now but sounds like you are questioning? I know you said you have more fun CN. I went through jskylers CN training several months ago and got my times almost the same as my white cross times, but I decided that I would be able to have more strategic practice if I stuck with white cross. I figure I did it once, and if I choose to go back to CN it will be easier than it was the first time since I already have some practice.


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## MarcelP (May 8, 2014)

sk8erman41 said:


> Marcel- Any further thoughts on color neutrality? I know in the CFOP substep thread you were saying that your white cross yielded better results. I know you have been color neutral (with a slight preference for W/Y as a fallback) for awhile now but sounds like you are questioning? I know you said you have more fun CN. I went through jskylers CN training several months ago and got my times almost the same as my white cross times, but I decided that I would be able to have more strategic practice if I stuck with white cross. I figure I did it once, and if I choose to go back to CN it will be easier than it was the first time since I already have some practice.


Well... it got me worried. Doing the 'pairs' clearly showed difference in times on CN. So this week I did an Ao100 on white cross only expecting to break all the freaking records out there.. Well what do you know? It sucked major.. Doing white only forces me to do hard crosses also.. Ao100 was 23.87. The next day I did a CN Ao100 which was 22.01.. Yeah, I knew enough then..  I will stick with CN for sure.. I need CN for easy crosses.


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## sk8erman41 (May 8, 2014)

right on. Plus, hey, if you have more fun CN then all the better!


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## applemobile (May 8, 2014)

Hi Marcel, welcome to the forum.


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## sneaklyfox (May 9, 2014)

applemobile said:


> Hi Marcel, welcome to the forum.



Where have you been?

This thread is so cool it should be stickied.


----------



## Schmidt (May 10, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> I did not have a lot of practice time the last few days. I just did an Ao50 of 23.79.. Yuk!
> 
> But there was a
> 
> ...





Spoiler: what i did



z2
D L2 D2 B2 
L' U L
U' R' U R y L' U' L
U' R' U R
R U' R' U2 R U' R'
F U R U' R' F' 
U M2 U' M' U2 M U' M2 U2


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## MarcelP (May 10, 2014)

Schmidt said:


> Spoiler: what i did
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Nice... in what time?


----------



## Schmidt (May 10, 2014)

9.75 after a few tries


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## h2f (May 10, 2014)

This thread is so much inspiring to me, because I'm 40 this week and I'm in speedcubing for almost a year. I hoped it's not too late for me, and now I know it's not since I know this thread. Now I'm a little bit sub-30 and my goal is to be sub-20. I was just going to say: hi Marcel.


----------



## MarcelP (May 10, 2014)

h2f said:


> and my goal is to be sub-20. I was just going to say: hi Marcel.



Hi man,

Good stuff! I started out at age 42 so there is no problem for you to become sub 20  Although I have not reached that stage I am pretty convinced I will some day.


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## h2f (May 11, 2014)

But I can see you are close to it. I've downloaded your ALG trainer and it looks great. Thanks a lot.


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## MarcelP (May 11, 2014)

Today I timed my PLL's. I did an Mean of 5 for each. Now I know I suck at PLLs:

H-Perm 2.60
Ua-perm *2.08*
Ub-perm 2.52
Z-p6erm 3:15
Aa-perm 3:48
Ab-perm 2:92
E-perm 4:45
F-perm 3.83
Ga-perm 3:88
Gb-perm 3:30
Gc-perm 2:87
Gd-perm 3:46
Ja-perm 2:58
Jb-perm 2:78
Na-perm 3:95
Nb-perm 3:51
Ra-perm 3:24
Rb-perm *4:31*
T-perm 2:32
V-perm 3:47
Y-perm 3:49

How do you guys score?


----------



## TDM (May 11, 2014)

You have two Ja/Ua perms.
Without deleting fails (but deleting DNFs):
H-perm: 1.43
Ua-perm: 1.62 (so many fails)
Ub-perm: 1.26
Z-perm: 1.52
Aa-perm: 1.38
Ab-perm: 1.86 (also failed a lot)
E-perm: 2.49 (one good attempt)
F-perm: 2.11 (two fails)
Ga-perm: 2.10 (two fails)
Gb-perm: 1.82 (one fail)
Gc-perm: 1.66
Gd-perm: 1.78
J-perm: 1.00
L-perm: 1.64 (two fails)
Na-perm: 5.39 (1.81, 2.04, 2.07, 3.58, 17.45 :fp)
Nb-perm: 2.13
Ra-perm: 2.00 (three fails)
Rb-perm: 1.40 (one fail)
T-perm: 1.42 (two fails)
V-perm: 2.64 (not a single good execution)
Y-perm: 1.60 (1.24 single but also a 2.00)


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## MarcelP (May 11, 2014)

Thanks. I deleted the many fails. Somehow doing just a pll from start messes my excecution.


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## DeeDubb (May 11, 2014)

The only two perms I do with Roux:

Mo5:
J Perm - 2.21
Y Perm - 2.98

I should go through all 43 of my CMLL algs and do Mo5s sometime, but my weekly Roux TPS race is helping with a lot of the harder ones.

Holy hell, you are fast TDM...

EDIT:

Marcel, you are very inspirational, and I really wish I could participate in more of your practice sessions, but being Roux makes it a little hard.


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## TDM (May 11, 2014)

DeeDubb said:


> Holy hell, you are fast TDM...


I actually think LL is the worst part of my solves, but my PLLs are faster when timing them separately. I can't do PLLs quickly after an entire solve... my hands get tired quickly. One advantage of dysgraphia/dyspraxia is that I don't have to write by hand in exams, but it doesn't help cubing at all


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## kcl (May 11, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> Today I timed my PLL's. I did an Mean of 5 for each. Now I know I suck al PLLs:
> 
> H-Perm 2.60
> Ua-perm *2.08*
> ...



H- .76
Ua-.86
Ub- .68
Z- .98
Aa- .89
Ab- .88
E- .87
F- 1.12 eww
I don't pay attention to the letters for G perms so this wouldn't be accurate XD

Ja- .94
Jb- .67
Na- 1.23
Nb- 1.26
Ra- .96
Rb- .98
T- .87
V- .99
Y- 1.04


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## MarcelP (May 11, 2014)

DeeDubb said:


> Marcel, you are very inspirational, and I really wish I could participate in more of your practice sessions, but being Roux makes it a little hard.



Yeah, well it seem as you are sub 30 ish in only two months you are doing just fine without CFOP. Keep it up!



kclejeune said:


> H- .76
> Ua-.86
> Ub- .68
> Z- .98
> ...



Ooh man... .67 average mean of 5? Really? That is so incredibly fast. I would love to see that on video..


----------



## kcl (May 11, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> Yeah, well it seem as you are sub 30 ish in only two months you are doing just fine without CFOP. Keep it up!
> 
> 
> 
> Ooh man... .67 average mean of 5? Really? That is so incredibly fast. I would love to see that on video..



Oooh I didn't read properly. I did a few tries and wrote down the fastest attempt.


----------



## MarcelP (May 11, 2014)

kclejeune said:


> Oooh I didn't read properly. I did a few tries and wrote down the fastest attempt.



Figured something like that  LOL


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## mark49152 (May 11, 2014)

kclejeune said:


> Oooh I didn't read properly. I did a few tries and wrote down the fastest attempt.


How are you starting and stopping the timer? Claiming a time like 0.67 to 100th second accuracy implies that you think your accuracy at starting and stopping the timer isn't giving you 0.01 second or greater advantage. 0.1-0.2 is a more likely margin of error. I don't trust any claim less than a second unless started/stopped with one or both hands off the cube or verified by video frame inspection. Or you could do the alg 10 times in a row and see if you can get 6.7 seconds.


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## kcl (May 11, 2014)

*Hi, Marcel from Holland here*



mark49152 said:


> How are you starting and stopping the timer? Claiming a time like 0.67 to 100th second accuracy implies that you think your accuracy at starting and stopping the timer isn't giving you 0.01 second or greater advantage. 0.1-0.2 is a more likely margin of error. I don't trust any claim less than a second unless started/stopped with one or both hands off the cube or verified by video frame inspection. Or you could do the alg 10 times in a row and see if you can get 6.7 seconds.


If both hands are off the cube, you aren't timing just the alg but also the pickup. I time them with a stackmat the standard way, holding the cube starting with wrists. I'm not really sure what you meant with this post anyway, as I said, I read it wrong. These are NOT means. If you could clarify what I seem to be missing, that would be wonderful.


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## mark49152 (May 11, 2014)

kclejeune said:


> If you're trying to say I'm faking it go right ahead. I'll let you know right now, I'm not.


Where in my post does it mention faking? I certainly didn't mean to suggest you are faking and I have no reason to suspect you are. It's not your honesty I'm questioning, it's the accuracy of your method.



kclejeune said:


> If both hands are off the cube, you aren't timing just the alg but also the pickup. I time them with a stackmat the standard way, holding the cube starting with wrists.


Let's say your margin of error for synchronizing the start of your first move with releasing the timer is +/- 0.1 and let's say your margin of error for synchronizing hitting the timer with going past 45 degrees with your last turn is also +/- 0.1 seconds. That means your 0.67 has a +/- 0.2 margin of error. It could have been 0.47 or it could have been 0.87. Now you might think your accuracy is better than +/- 0.2 seconds, and you might be right, but I would bet you it's nowhere near +/- 0.005 seconds.

If you start/stop with one or both hands off the cube, you are correct, you also time the pickup, and for both hands that might significantly impact your times. However the point of starting with one or both hands off the cube is (obviously) that inaccuracy can't count in your favour. So you can be good or bad at starting/stopping the timer but you know that your time is never less than the true execution time of the alg and so is always a fair result.

The most accurate way to time a mean of 5 PLL executions would be to time all 5 together, preferably starting/stopping with one hand off the cube, and then divide the time by 5. That way your timer overhead is also diluted by a factor of 5.


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## kcl (May 11, 2014)

mark49152 said:


> Where in my post does it mention faking? I certainly didn't mean to suggest you are faking and I have no reason to suspect you are. It's not your honesty I'm questioning, it's the accuracy of your method.
> 
> 
> Let's say your margin of error for synchronizing the start of your first move with releasing the timer is +/- 0.1 and let's say your margin of error for synchronizing hitting the timer with going past 45 degrees with your last turn is also +/- 0.1 seconds. That means your 0.67 has a +/- 0.2 margin of error. It could have been 0.47 or it could have been 0.87. Now you might think your accuracy is better than +/- 0.2 seconds, and you might be right, but I would bet you it's nowhere near +/- 0.005 seconds.
> ...



I'm sorry, I misinterpreted your post. That aside, any method of timing an alg is going to have inaccuracy. Doing 5 reps is good, but doesn't let you get the same speed you do with one. In my experience, the time shown on the stackmat and the time found by counting frames are rarely more than .05 apart. I don't generally start turning before timing algs.


----------



## mark49152 (May 11, 2014)

kclejeune said:


> In my experience, the time shown on the stackmat and the time found by counting frames are rarely more than .05 apart.


So your 0.67 time was anywhere between 0.62 and 0.72?


----------



## kcl (May 11, 2014)

mark49152 said:


> So your 0.67 time was anywhere between 0.62 and 0.72?



Most likely.


----------



## mark49152 (May 11, 2014)

kclejeune said:


> Most likely.


OK thanks for acknowledging that, and my apologies for making you feel I was questioning your integrity. I know you are a fast and accomplished cuber and also respect you as a positive and enthusiastic contributor to the forum... and an honest one


----------



## kcl (May 11, 2014)

mark49152 said:


> OK thanks for acknowledging that, and my apologies for making you feel I was questioning your integrity. I know you are a fast and accomplished cuber and also respect you as a positive and enthusiastic contributor to the forum... and an honest one



Thanks 

I have to be conscious of the fact that the Midwest United States is one of the most passive aggressive places in the world. A post like that here would be a "beating around the bush" way of saying that they don't believe you. 
I'll edit my post haha.


----------



## mark49152 (May 11, 2014)

kclejeune said:


> Thanks
> 
> I have to be conscious of the fact that the Midwest United States is one of the most passive aggressive places in the world. A post like that here would be a "beating around the bush" way of saying that they don't believe you.
> I'll edit my post haha.


No need to edit, we're all good


----------



## mark49152 (May 12, 2014)

New PB ao100 = 21.89. First sub-22. No cubing for a week so came back refreshed!


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## MarcelP (May 13, 2014)

mark49152 said:


> New PB ao100 = 21.89. First sub-22. No cubing for a week so came back refreshed!



Great Mark. We have the same Ao100 PB now. I have heard before from the taking brakes as a good improve method. I am just too addicted to skip a day of cubing.. LOL


----------



## kcl (May 13, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> Great Mark. We have the same Ao100 PB now. I have heard before from the taking brakes as a good improve method. I am just too addicted to skip a day of cubing.. LOL



my hands get twitchy when I go too long without turning a cube xD


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## mark49152 (May 13, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> Great Mark. We have the same Ao100 PB now. I have heard before from the taking brakes as a good improve method. I am just too addicted to skip a day of cubing.. LOL


Well yeah, I have that problem too . Usually breaks are enforced, like family vacations or business trips, during which I get withdrawal symptoms like Kennan. Not sure whether improvement is down to the break itself or the frantic binge of solving once I get back to my beloved cubes


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## MarcelP (May 13, 2014)

mark49152 said:


> Not sure whether improvement is down to the break itself or the frantic binge of solving once I get back to my beloved cubes



LOL!! Really loud....


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## MarcelP (May 13, 2014)

Any of you guys have the AoLong yet? Mine are on the way but not even in the country yet. I am really looking forward to it. Feliks had a PB Ao100 on the AoLong. 7.02  Must be something special about that cube then


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## mark49152 (May 13, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> Any of you guys have the AoLong yet? Mine are on the way but not even in the country yet.


Mine's on the way but I went for cheap shipping so no idea where it is.


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## MarcelP (May 13, 2014)

mark49152 said:


> Mine's on the way but I went for cheap shipping so no idea where it is.



Yeah, I like to pay the extra $2 just to know where it is


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## mark49152 (May 13, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> Yeah, I like to pay the extra $2 just to know where it is


Usually I do too, but this time I felt like ordering and forgetting, only to see a random surprise parcel drop on my doorstep in a month's time long after I'd forgotten about it.


----------



## MarcelP (May 14, 2014)

mark49152 said:


> New PB ao100 = 21.89. First sub-22. No cubing for a week so came back refreshed!



Ok, today I was in great cube shape. I decided to trash your PB. Did not work unfortunatly  So I decided to quit after 50 solves. Still happy with the many 19's, 18's, 17's and 16 



Spoiler



Mean: 22.35
Average: 22.33
Best time: 16.17
Median: 22.33
Worst time: 29.49
Standard deviation: 2.77

Best average of 5: 19.42
3-7 - 17.51 (22.78) 22.09 (16.17) 18.67

Best average of 12: 21.39
3-14 - 17.51 22.78 22.09 (16.17) 18.67 21.00 20.55 22.32 22.04 (25.00) 23.74 23.20

1. 22.09 U F2 U2 L2 U B2 D2 R2 L2 F2 L2 F' L' B2 R' L2 D' U2 B' R F2
2. 29.49 R2 F2 D F2 D' R2 D2 U' B2 D2 U' L D F D' U R2 B' U' R L B2
3. 17.51 F2 D2 B2 R2 D R2 U R2 F2 D' F2 L B L2 B2 F' U' F D' U F2 R
4. 22.78 U F2 U' F2 U B2 F2 D F2 U L' B F R' D' U2 B' F' L2 B U2
5. 22.09 F2 L2 U' F2 U' F2 U2 R2 F2 D2 L' B D L U2 B' U R2 B R2 D'
6. 16.17 F2 U' R2 D L2 F2 D' B2 F2 R B' F U B' D' B2 L' U' F2 L'
7. 18.67 B2 R2 F2 R2 D' R2 F2 D' U F2 R B L2 U F R2 B U F2 R' U'
8. 21.00 F2 U' R2 U L2 D L2 U2 R2 B2 U2 F' B2 L F2 D' B L U' L2 D2 U'
9. 20.55 U' B2 D' B2 U L2 B2 D' L2 F2 U2 R D2 U' F D2 F' D2 L' B2 U'
10. 22.32 B2 F2 D F2 U2 L2 U' R2 B2 F2 U R' B2 L' U2 F' R F R' U R'
11. 22.04 B2 R2 D' U2 B2 L2 U' R2 F2 R2 D2 R F' U' F2 U' L2 F' D L B' U'
12. 25.00 F2 D' B2 R2 D2 U R2 D U B2 U2 R' U2 F' L' B' D' B' R B' F'
13. 23.74 D R2 B2 D2 F2 D B2 F2 L2 D U2 L F D B F R2 U2 R2 D U'
14. 23.20 D U2 R2 F2 D F2 U' B2 U R2 L2 F D2 R2 F' D2 R D U B' L' U'
15. 25.64 D' R2 U2 L2 F2 R2 B2 D' L2 B2 D' F D R' F2 R2 D L B' U F'
16. 22.78 R2 B2 L2 D' L2 D' U' R2 F2 R2 D F' U R F' D L' B' F2 U' B2 R
17. 22.77 U' B2 R2 U' F2 R2 U F2 D L2 F2 R F' D B U F' D B U2 F2
18. 20.55 B2 D R2 D F2 D' R2 U' F2 R2 U L' F U F' L2 U' B2 R2 B R U'
19. 21.55 R2 L2 F2 U F2 D2 R2 D L2 B2 U' B' F' D' B L' D' R F2 R U'
20. 23.13 U2 B2 R2 L2 D2 R2 U F2 R2 L2 U2 L' F D R2 U2 B' F2 U2 L' B'
21. 19.34 D' R2 D2 L2 U L2 F2 U' R2 L2 U2 B' U R' F' U B2 D2 R' U R2 U'
22. 20.08 R2 D B2 D' L2 B2 F2 D' F2 R2 U2 R' F U2 F' R' U2 B2 F L2 U'
23. 18.76 B2 F2 L2 U2 R2 U B2 U2 F2 U' L' B L U' B' F' L F2 D B2 D U
24. 23.36 U' F2 D2 R2 U R2 U' R2 F2 D2 L2 B' F' D R' D2 B2 U' B2 F' R'
25. 25.27 L2 D B2 D L2 D2 B2 D' L2 U' F2 L R2 B U R2 F2 R2 U' R2 F
26. 22.18 R2 B2 L2 D B2 R2 L2 U' B2 F2 R2 F' D2 B D U2 R' L F U' L2 U2
27. 25.73 R2 D U B2 L2 B2 U B2 U L2 U' B U2 L D' R F U B U2 R'
28. 19.79 U2 B2 F2 D' R2 B2 L2 B2 L2 D' U' L B' D' U2 R2 L2 B' U2 L D' U
29. 24.12 B2 L2 U F2 D2 R2 D2 L2 U' B2 D' R' F2 L' U R2 U B R2 D L2
30. 22.83 L2 B2 R2 B2 D2 R2 L2 D' B2 F2 R2 F' L U B L' F' U F2 L'
31. 21.04 B2 L2 D L2 U2 L2 U' R2 F2 U2 B2 R' F2 D B' R U2 R B' R' U'
32. 24.96 L2 U B2 D' F2 U' B2 F2 D2 F2 R D' B' F2 L D R2 F U' B' U2
33. 22.34 D' R2 D B2 U2 L2 U B2 U' F2 L2 F D' R' B U R' B D2 R2 U
34. 25.52 D' B2 D2 F2 D' L2 U' L2 U L2 B2 R' F' L' U B2 D F2 L B R2
35. 24.15 B2 D' F2 D F2 U2 F2 L2 B2 L2 U2 R L2 B R F' D' L' U F' R D'
36. 18.85 F2 L2 D R2 D' F2 U B2 D2 F2 D' R' F2 R B R2 L F2 D' L2 F'
37. 21.00 D L2 U F2 U B2 L2 B2 U B2 L B' D' B D' U B' F' R F
38. 20.77 U' L2 U2 R2 L2 U F2 U R2 F2 D F U' F R U2 R' B U' L D'
39. 19.79 U' L2 F2 U F2 U2 F2 L2 B2 U' R2 B U2 L2 D B' D R' F2 D R'
40. 25.88 L2 D2 L2 U L2 D' B2 R2 U F2 L' D' B' R2 F L' B R' B2 F D
41. 23.86 B2 D2 B2 D F2 D' R2 U B2 F2 U' B' R F R D L2 D' B2 U2 F' U
42. 24.68 R2 F2 L2 B2 D' F2 U L2 U' B2 U F L2 F2 L F' R2 D' B2 L2 D
43. 20.63 F2 R2 D L2 D R2 B2 D2 U B2 U2 L' F2 U' F' D2 B D2 F U2 R2
44. 22.83 L2 U' B2 F2 D B2 D' F2 U2 F2 D' R' L2 B' U2 L' B F' R B2 F D2
45. 17.53 F2 R2 U2 R2 U' F2 R2 U L2 U' R2 B D' F2 R B L' F' L F L U2
46. 18.80 U R2 B2 L2 D2 L2 D2 U L2 F2 R U B' F2 U L' D R' L2
47. 23.16 R2 F2 D L2 U B2 U' L2 D B2 D' R' D L2 F D2 U L2 F' L F2 U2
48. 28.23 B2 U R2 D2 R2 L2 D R2 U R2 U B R2 B' L' D U B L' U2 R'
49. 27.75 D R2 B2 D F2 R2 U' R2 F2 D F2 R' U F2 D' F' D2 B2 L2 D' R U
50. 21.42 L2 D2 R2 D' L2 D R2 B2 U' L2 F2 L' F' U B U L' D' L' F2 L' D





EDIT: Ao25 during lunch:

I had a complete green cross. First time in two years cubing..  I saw two pairs in inspection

24. 14.40 D' F2 R2 U2 R2 F2 R2 D L2 U2 F2 R' F2 R' L2 F' R' L2 B R L2


----------



## kcl (May 14, 2014)

*Hi, Marcel from Holland here*



MarcelP said:


> Any of you guys have the AoLong yet? Mine are on the way but not even in the country yet. I am really looking forward to it. Feliks had a PB Ao100 on the AoLong. 7.02  Must be something special about that cube then



I got it. It's incredible. Do not hesitate whatsoever. I feel like it's especially good for faz because he likes super loose cubes. This does really well at loose tensions because it doesn't lose any stability.


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## Rocky0701 (May 14, 2014)

strakerak said:


> This isn't the accomplishment thread.


No, but it has become basically it's own thread for older cubers to talk about there progress and stuff. It's Marcel's thread, not yours, so you don't have a say on what is posted in it. I can understand if someone was spamming or being bashful, but Mark and Marcel have become good friends and share there progress with each other in this thread.

Edit: Marcel, where did you hear that Feliks beat his ao100 PB with the AoLong because if there is a video i would like to see it


----------



## MarcelP (May 14, 2014)

Rocky0701 said:


> Edit: Marcel, where did you hear that Feliks beat his ao100 PB with the AoLong because if there is a video i would like to see it



Here: https://www.facebook.com/fzemdegs?ref=ts&fref=ts


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## mark49152 (May 15, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> Ok, today I was in great cube shape. I decided to trash your PB. Did not work unfortunatly


I'm wondering if my PB was just a bug in the timer. Started a session last night and opened with a 26.xx ao12, after warm-up!


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## MarcelP (May 15, 2014)

mark49152 said:


> I'm wondering if my PB was just a bug in the timer. Started a session last night and opened with a 26.xx ao12, after warm-up!



LOL.. I get rarely sup 25 Ao12's but sometimes it is just not my day (cubewise). Maybe this 26 Ao12 is a fluke.


----------



## MarcelP (May 15, 2014)

kclejeune said:


> I got it. It's incredible. Do not hesitate whatsoever. I feel like it's especially good for faz because he likes super loose cubes. This does really well at loose tensions because it doesn't lose any stability.



I got mine in the mail today. It is awesome! Love it.


----------



## MarcelP (May 16, 2014)

Broke my Ao5 PB and Single PB today with AoLong. Single was lucky (OLL skip). Great cube. But maybe too fast for me. I have tightened it a bit added some lube and it is somewhat slower now. I do not know if I like Weilong V2 better or not. Too soon to tell. PB's are mostly a good indicator that a cube is awesome. 


Spoiler



These are on video btw 
11. 19.22 U L2 B2 D2 B2 U L2 U L2 F2 D' R' B R F2 U' B F' U' B2 R' L'
12. 12.01 U' B2 L2 U2 L2 D' F2 R2 F2 R F' U B R2 D' L' D2 R B' D
13. 15.85 R2 B2 F2 D L2 D2 U' R2 F2 D2 L' B' F R' D F' L B2 R2 F' R'
14. 19.58 F2 L2 D' U2 R2 U L2 B2 U2 B2 L' D' F R2 U' B D F2 D L2 U2
15. 21.56 L2 U' F2 R2 D' R2 L2 U B2 F2 D2 R' B' D' F' L' F2 D' R' F R2 U'
16. 15.57 B2 U2 R2 U L2 F2 D' B2 D' R2 U2 L' F2 L B' R2 U R' F R B2


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## sneaklyfox (May 17, 2014)

This is the first time in like 8 months that I've felt really tempted to buy another cube (yeah, I haven't bought one in awhile).

You're getting really fast, Marcel.


----------



## Rocky0701 (May 17, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> Broke my Ao5 PB and Single PB today with AoLong. Single was lucky (OLL skip). Great cube. But maybe too fast for me. I have tightened it a bit added some lube and it is somewhat slower now. I do not know if I like Weilong V2 better or not. Too soon to tell. PB's are mostly a good indicator that a cube is awesome.
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> ...


Awesome job! Just to brighten your day even more, i noticed that you also broke your mo3 PB. The new one is 15.81


----------



## MarcelP (May 17, 2014)

sneaklyfox said:


> This is the first time in like 8 months that I've felt really tempted to buy another cube (yeah, I haven't bought one in awhile).
> 
> You're getting really fast, Marcel.



Thanks Melody. I seem to be able to get way more 18's, 17's and 16's. Even 15 and 14 are happening every once in a while. As you might have noticed in the video I try to pick up TPS. Slowly I am getting used to slight higher TPS. It is giving me more better singles. How ever it is also giving me more bad solves. So in general it does not affect my averages to the best. I am still at the 22/23 stage. My guess is if I can keep this up I will get better and reach the sub 20 within a year or so.

Buy the AoLong, you will love it. 



Rocky0701 said:


> Awesome job! Just to brighten your day even more, i noticed that you also broke your mo3 PB. The new one is 15.81



Ahh, thanks. missed that one completely


----------



## sneaklyfox (May 17, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> Buy the AoLong, you will love it.



If I don't, I want my money back, ok?


----------



## kcl (May 17, 2014)

sneaklyfox said:


> If I don't, I want my money back, ok?



Prepare to dump lube in it. It's pretty fast.


----------



## sneaklyfox (May 18, 2014)

Faster than Weilong?


----------



## MarcelP (May 18, 2014)

Yeah, faster than the Weilong.


----------



## MarcelP (May 18, 2014)

sneaklyfox said:


> If I don't, I want my money back, ok?



Yeah, no problem. I am so confident that you will love this cube. It is really not out of this world. Broke my Ao100 and Ao12 today with AoLong 



Spoiler



Mean: 21.44
Average: 21.40
Best time: 16.40
Median: 21.63
Worst time: 30.35
Standard deviation: 2.17

Best average of 5: 19.15
79-83 - (16.40) 19.98 18.80 (21.69) 18.67

Best average of 12: 20.34
47-58 - 18.09 20.52 (17.02) 20.89 21.74 20.43 20.24 18.97 21.92 18.97 (22.30) 21.63

1. 20.32 L2 F2 D2 L2 F2 U' F2 R2 U' B2 U F' U L' D' L' F2 U R D' L2
 2. 17.80 D2 B2 L2 U2 F2 U' L2 D L2 B2 U B L' D' B2 R' L2 B D2 B' D U'
 3. 19.15 R2 D F2 D2 R2 D L2 U L2 B2 R2 F D R L B2 U' F' U2 B D
4. 23.23 L2 D2 R2 F2 D' R2 F2 L2 F2 D F' U' B' R U' B L2 D' F' D U2
5. 20.46 R2 L2 U2 R2 F2 U' R2 U' F2 U B2 L D B F2 D U' B F R' F' U2
6. 23.25 D L2 U2 B2 U F2 U R2 U' F2 R2 F' D2 L D2 B' D F' D2 B2 R' U'
7. 21.87 L2 B2 D F2 R2 L2 U' B2 R2 L2 D L' U' F L D' U B2 L B R
8. 23.39 D2 F2 U' B2 D' B2 R2 F2 U' F2 U' R' L' D' R F' U2 B' L' B2 U'
9. 23.07 F2 R2 D2 R2 F2 U' L2 D' L2 B2 D B' L' U2 F' U2 F2 L D B' L
10. 20.64 D' L2 U' R2 L2 U2 B2 R2 U F2 D F L U2 B' D2 U' R U' B' R
11. 21.63 F2 D R2 D F2 D B2 U' F2 D' F2 L R2 B' D' R2 B2 R' U' B' L' U'
 12. 18.09 U' L2 U' R2 D B2 L2 B2 U2 F2 U2 B' U B2 R' L' B U' F2 R L 
13. 22.94 B2 D' F2 L2 U F2 U' B2 L2 B2 L2 F L D F D2 L2 F R F'
14. 24.70 U' R2 B2 F2 D2 R2 U' L2 U2 B2 U' L' D2 B D' L2 U' R2 B L F2 R
 15. 17.29 D' L2 F2 U2 L2 U' B2 F2 U L2 B R' B D2 F' L2 D2 U2 F2 R2 
16. 21.66 F2 L2 F2 D U B2 L2 D B2 U R2 B' D' B' U B' R' L F' D L'
 17. 16.62 U' L2 U F2 R2 B2 U B2 D2 L2 U R' U' F D2 L2 F D' F R' F' L 
 18. 19.39 D2 B2 D' R2 B2 U' F2 R2 U R2 U L F2 U' F R' L' B' F2 D2 
19. 23.36 B2 D' R2 F2 U' F2 D2 L2 U' B2 U' R D' U' B R D2 L' B' F2 R U2
20. 22.17 R2 D' L2 U' R2 U2 B2 D R2 F2 L D R2 F' D2 R2 U2 L' F'
21. 23.26 D F2 D R2 F2 U' R2 L2 B2 R2 U R B L U R B F R2 U L2
22. 21.31 D' R2 B2 R2 B2 U B2 F2 D F2 D' B' L' F' R D' R2 B2 D' F D U'
 23. 19.24 F2 L2 F2 U2 F2 D2 R2 F2 D F2 U' F' L' D' F2 U R2 D2 F' L2 D' U' 
24. 22.11 F2 L2 D F2 D' B2 L2 D U2 R2 U F' D L' U' B' R B2 R D R U2
25. 21.66 U B2 D2 L2 U B2 D2 F2 R2 D F2 L' U L2 D' R' B' D U' B F U'
26. 22.08 R2 U2 F2 D R2 D2 L2 D' F2 D L2 F D2 F D U2 R B L2 B R2
27. 21.93 U' B2 R2 F2 D2 F2 L2 D B2 L2 U2 L' B2 U' F L' D' L' B' U F' L'
28. 21.23 D2 U' F2 R2 L2 U F2 R2 U R2 F2 R' F2 U L' U2 F' R' F R2 U
29. 21.74 U2 F2 D' L2 B2 D L2 U2 L2 F2 U R' L U B D B2 D L2 B' L2
30. 23.79 B2 U2 F2 D' R2 F2 R2 U2 R2 U' B2 L' D B2 R' F L' B2 U R' D' U
31. 22.53 B2 U L2 U B2 L2 U R2 D2 R2 F D L' B' R D' R2 F' D2 L2 U2
32. 21.28 U' L2 D F2 D' F2 D R2 D R2 B2 L' D R' B2 R' L' F' L2 B2
33. 24.36 B2 L2 F2 U L2 F2 U L2 D' L2 U B L U' R' L2 D' L B2 U' F U'
34. 21.15 L2 B2 D U' R2 U' F2 D F2 U2 B2 R F' D2 R L' B' R' D2 U' L2 U
35. 21.84 U R2 U L2 D L2 U2 B2 R2 L2 U' L' F D' F' D' U' L' B L U' B2
36. 21.39 D2 L2 D2 U B2 L2 U' L2 F2 R2 B' R' L2 F2 D L D2 U' F U'
 37. 19.52 D' F2 U2 B2 U' R2 U R2 L2 D' U B' D2 R2 L U R D' R' U2 B' R 
 38. 19.95 L2 U B2 F2 D' R2 F2 D2 F2 D U' F' D R2 F2 D' L D U2 B' F 
 39. 16.91 R2 D2 U L2 D' B2 U L2 F2 U B2 L B' F L2 D' B R2 F' U' L' U2 
40. 24.81 B2 L2 B2 F2 U2 L2 U2 L2 F2 U2 F2 L F' R2 D2 L2 F2 L' F' D2 F U2
41. 20.27 U' R2 D' F2 D2 B2 L2 D' R2 B2 D' F' D2 R U' B U2 B R' L' U2
42. 22.11 U B2 U F2 U' F2 D' B2 F2 U' L2 B F' U L2 B' R' L' U R2 B D'
43. 21.55 R2 D B2 L2 F2 R2 D R2 U2 R2 F2 L' F' D R U' L D L' B L U
44. 23.77 F2 D' U2 L2 F2 U R2 F2 U' R2 D B' D2 L' D' R F' U2 F2 L B
45. 22.14 U2 F2 D R2 B2 D R2 D2 F2 L2 U R F' R2 L U R' F' U L' D' U'
46. 22.44 D B2 L2 U L2 D' R2 D' L2 D B2 L' U' R L' D' B' R2 U B D2 U2
 47. 18.09 R2 U2 L2 U L2 U2 F2 U' B2 U L2 B' L D' B2 R L' B R' U R' 
48. 20.52 D2 R2 F2 R2 D R2 U B2 U B2 U' R' U2 R2 B R' L2 B2 R2 F' U' R'
 49. 17.02 D' B2 L2 B2 F2 L2 D' L2 F2 L2 D' F' D2 L' D R2 U' B' L F' R' D 
50. 20.89 R2 D R2 F2 D2 L2 U R2 U B2 D' B' F U' F' D2 L F' R' L D'
51. 21.74 F2 R2 L2 U F2 U2 B2 D2 F2 D' R2 B' R2 U' F' D R F' L' D B2 U2
52. 20.43 U' R2 L2 U2 B2 R2 U F2 D' L2 U F D2 L U F' R D' F2 D' B L
53. 20.24 D' B2 R2 U' R2 D' F2 R2 F2 L2 U2 F' D F' R2 B2 F L2 U2 L' D2 U2
 54. 18.97 U B2 R2 B2 R2 F2 D2 F2 U' L2 D2 B' F R U' B2 L D B U2 R2 L 
55. 21.92 F2 D F2 U L2 D2 B2 F2 R2 D U2 R' D' U B D F2 L' U R2 B2 D
 56. 18.97 D' F2 D' L2 D R2 F2 R2 D2 L2 U' R U' F L' B D2 F' D' R2 B2 U 
57. 22.30 F2 R2 B2 R2 D' F2 D R2 D2 F2 U2 F R' U' L' B' F' R' F2 D F2 U'
58. 21.63 D B2 U B2 U L2 U' F2 D' B2 D' B' R2 D B2 R' F2 R' F D2 R
59. 22.53 R2 U' R2 D2 U' F2 D F2 R2 U2 R' L2 B' L' D U' R' B' L U2 R U2
60. 25.45 R2 F2 U B2 D' F2 U' L2 F2 D' U L' F L2 U' F' R2 U B L' U2
61. 21.87 L2 D L2 D' U2 F2 U' B2 L2 U L D L' U R D' B' R2 B2 R
62. 20.11 U' R2 L2 B2 U' R2 D' F2 D2 F2 U2 R' D' B D B' U R' L' U L'
63. 21.90 D' B2 D' R2 D B2 F2 D F2 L2 U' F' L2 F' U' B R2 L U F2
64. 24.78 R2 U2 F2 D' B2 L2 D2 U' F2 R2 L2 F' D' B' R F' R2 D' L B2 F U2
65. 24.86 L2 U B2 D2 R2 U2 R2 F2 D U' R' D2 U B L' B R2 U F' D U2
66. 22.92 R2 D B2 F2 R2 U F2 L2 D F2 D' B' U2 R L F L D' L2 B L U'
67. 21.84 L2 D' B2 U F2 D R2 D R2 B2 D R U' B2 F' D F2 U' B' R U2
68. 20.80 U R2 U B2 L2 U B2 U' L2 D' B' R D L' F2 R L2 D' B2 U2 L'
69. 22.48 B2 R2 L2 U2 B2 D' U2 R2 L2 F2 D L F' R' U L' B D U2 B2 R' U2
70. 22.97 B2 R2 D' U' L2 B2 L2 F2 D' R2 F2 L B' R U2 B' D R U B F D'
71. 22.43 R2 L2 D' R2 U' B2 U2 F2 R2 U R2 B' U F2 U' F' U' L' U' B2 R2 U'
72. 24.38 F2 L2 U2 B2 U' F2 U' F2 R2 F2 U' L' U' R2 B F D' B R' L F' D
73. 21.60 R2 D F2 D2 U R2 U2 R2 F2 D U' R' U B' L U L' B2 F2 R2 D2
74. 22.94 R2 L2 F2 L2 D U2 F2 U' L2 D2 R2 F L2 F L' D2 R' F' L2 B' D2 U
75. 21.44 R2 F2 R2 B2 L2 D' F2 U' L2 B2 U' F U2 L U2 L D2 F D' B' F2 U'
76. 23.63 R2 D2 B2 L2 U' B2 F2 U' L2 U' B' R U B F R D F' R2 F2
77. 22.27 U2 B2 D F2 D F2 D F2 U2 B2 U2 L' D2 U' B' D' R2 L' B' D' R
 78. 19.85 D L2 U' R2 D L2 F2 D B2 R2 U' B D F L' B' D L U2 B F2 U2 
 79. 16.40 F2 U' F2 L2 F2 R2 U R2 L2 F2 U2 F' U F2 L B L2 F R D2 F2 
 80. 19.98 B2 D F2 R2 U' B2 D2 B2 D R2 U' R' B' F' R' U2 L2 F' R' D' L 
 81. 18.80 R2 D B2 R2 L2 D' F2 L2 D' L2 B2 R F L F2 U2 L U F' D' U2 
82. 21.69 F2 R2 U B2 F2 D B2 D B2 D' U L B D' U F' R' F L' U R' U2
 83. 18.67 R2 U2 B2 D2 B2 R2 D' R2 D B2 U2 B' F' U R F' L2 B2 L2 U' L2 
 84. 19.92 F2 R2 F2 D' F2 D R2 D2 F2 U' L2 F' R2 D B2 L' U2 L2 D' B L2 
85. 23.38 B2 U B2 F2 D B2 R2 B2 U2 F2 U' F' R U B' L' D2 L' U F L' U2
86. 20.28 D2 F2 L2 D L2 U2 F2 U' R2 B2 U F R D2 U B' U' B2 U2 R' L2 U'
 87. 19.60 L2 F2 R2 U' B2 U L2 D' R2 B2 U' F D' L B D R U2 B L' U' L' 
88. 23.04 D' U2 B2 U2 L2 D' R2 D B2 R2 F L2 F D2 U2 R' F L' D'
89. 23.36 D' R2 B2 D U' B2 R2 B2 U L2 U' F D2 B2 F L F U2 B' L' U'
90. 22.49 F2 D' U' R2 B2 R2 U F2 D R U L2 F2 D B F2 L D' B2
 91. 19.49 U B2 D U2 L2 F2 R2 B2 U F2 R2 B' U' B R' B F' L2 U' F' L U' 
 92. 19.82 B2 L2 D2 R2 D2 L2 F2 D B2 F2 U F' R U' R L2 F' R' D' F R' U' 
93. 20.27 B2 D' U2 F2 U L2 D2 R2 B2 L2 B2 L U' B2 F2 U' B' D B F2 R U'
94. 21.26 R2 D F2 U2 F2 R2 D' U R2 B2 F2 L' B D L' D B2 L D' R2 U'
95. 24.45 U2 R2 U R2 D' L2 U F2 D2 R2 B2 R' D2 F' L D R' L D' L U'
 96. 19.58 D L2 U' L2 U2 B2 R2 U' L2 U' B2 L' D2 F' R D2 L' B' U' R2 F2 U' 
97. 22.08 U B2 D' R2 L2 D L2 D2 L2 B2 U F L2 U R L2 U2 R' U' B L D2
98. 20.61 R2 L2 D' L2 D' F2 D B2 R2 U R2 F R' B U L2 U' R2 B2 R' F'
99. 23.23 D' B2 U F2 U' F2 U' B2 U L2 D L' F2 D' R2 B' R B2 F' U2 R2 U'
100. 30.35 U2 R2 D2 B2 U L2 U' F2 R2 D' R2 B D2 F' R2 B L U' B2 D F L'
1 01. 18.16 B2 U B2 F2 U R2 L2 B2 U B2 U R' U F' L B' R2 U L D2 L 
102. 22.54 D2 F2 U' B2 R2 D2 F2 U' B2 R2 U' L' F2 D' R B U2 L' D2 U2 L'
103. 21.32 D2 U' F2 U' F2 R2 B2 U2 L2 U' L2 B R2 U' B F' D2 R D R2 L' D2
 104. 18.96 R2 U' B2 L2 B2 U R2 U' B2 D' U2 B L U L2 D R2 B U' F R' D2 
 105. 19.93 F2 U' B2 R2 U F2 R2 U L2 B2 D R B2 D' L2 B F2 R2 F R' L' 
106. 21.13 U' B2 U2 R2 U B2 U' F2 D F2 U' B' F2 L' F D2 F R D2 R U'
 107. 18.56 B2 L2 B2 L2 D' F2 D2 B2 D B2 U' R D' F' D2 B F2 U2 L2 U 
108. 23.74 U L2 U' B2 R2 U' R2 L2 B2 D L2 B R B2 F2 U' L2 F2 U F' D'
109. 28.06 U L2 F2 D' F2 U2 F2 R2 B2 D' F2 R' B' L D R' B' U' R D' L2
 110. 19.60 F2 D2 B2 L2 U F2 D' R2 D' F2 D' F L' B' U' B R2 F' D2 L F 
111. 21.26 B2 D L2 F2 U B2 D F2 L2 D U F D' F2 R2 L F' R' B L2
112. 22.56 L2 U2 B2 D' R2 B2 U2 R2 L2 U' F' R2 L B2 L B' R U R2 L' F2 U
113. 22.48 R2 D' R2 U L2 D' U' B2 L2 B2 U F L U L2 D2 B' U2 B' R F U2
114. 20.22 L2 B2 F2 U2 B2 U' B2 L2 D L2 U F' L2 B U' R U' L' D U B'
 115. 19.76 L2 U' R2 U' L2 B2 D2 R2 U' L2 U2 L U' L2 D' B' U2 L' B2 F R' 
116. 21.90 L2 D' F2 D R2 D' L2 U L2 D' R' D' B' R B' D' F L2 B
117. 20.05 L2 D2 F2 R2 D U2 B2 F2 U' B2 F2 R U B' R2 B' D U2 R2 D' U2


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## Schmidt (May 18, 2014)

I did an ao100 for the first time in ages (it was 75 and a break of a few hours and then 25 more)


Spoiler: stuff



stats: (hide)
number of times: 100/100
best time: 16.68
worst time: 30.58


current avg5: 20.36 (σ = 1.27)
best avg5: 19.41 (σ = 0.77)


current avg12: 20.61 (σ = 1.68)
best avg12: 20.61 (σ = 1.68)


current avg50: 21.91 (σ = 1.74)
best avg50: 21.71 (σ = 1.93)


current avg100: 21.86 (σ = 1.90)
best avg100: 21.86 (σ = 1.90)


session avg: 21.86 (σ = 1.90)
session mean: 22.00

19.96, 24.08, 20.84, 24.58, 20.16, 16.68, 25.21, 20.02, 20.77, 22.59, 22.86, 19.69, 25.11, 23.11, 21.77, 21.03, 20.47, 18.94, 22.40, 19.00, 20.30, 17.53, 23.58, 21.16, 23.06, 19.44, 30.58, 21.86, 20.34, 21.56, 20.91, 21.28, 29.93, 24.83, 21.08, 18.47, 20.43, 30.09, 19.69, 19.97, 21.78, 19.44, 24.22, 19.50, 25.96, 20.83, 23.71, 25.43, 23.08, 23.75, 22.90, 21.41, 22.08, 18.63, 24.02, 19.30, 23.22, 22.58, 24.59, 23.69, 23.02, 22.02, 21.13, 18.65, 22.86, 26.59, 21.61, 22.27, 22.34, 20.27, 19.58, 23.22, 23.31, 19.21, 23.52, 22.08, 21.18, 18.83, 25.59, 25.34, 23.59, 21.36, 27.27, 19.83, 23.93, 21.18, 25.03, 22.96, 22.66, 20.96, 18.13, 17.93, 21.58, 22.09, 23.22, 21.44, 20.68, 21.65, 18.97, 17.03

16+: 1
17+: 3
18+: 7
19+: 12
20+: 13
21+: 17
22+: 14
23+: 15
24+: 6
25+: 7
26+: 1
27+: 1
28+: 0
29+: 1
30+: 2



I'm surprised about the small difference between 50 and 100 solves.


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## MarcelP (May 19, 2014)

Schmidt said:


> I did an ao100 for the first time in ages (it was 75 and a break of a few hours and then 25 more)
> 
> 
> Spoiler: stuff
> ...



Nice one Søren, Is that a PB? yeah, there is not much difference between Ao50 and Ao100. The only difference is that Ao100's are better practise since you are doing more solves


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## Schmidt (May 20, 2014)

I guess it's PB.


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## kcl (May 20, 2014)

So this scramble broke my PB with a 4.63. 

Try it before you do my solution, I bet you guys can sub 10 it 

D2 L2 B2 D2 F2 D2 R2 F R2 F' U L' B' D B D U F2 D' 

x2// inspection
F2 R2 U R' D2// XXcross
R' U' R U2 R' U R// third pair
y' R U2 R'// fourth pair+WV
U R U R' U' R' F R2 U' R' U F' L' U L// PLL


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## TDM (May 20, 2014)

kclejeune said:


> So this scramble broke my PB with a 4.63.
> 
> Try it before you do my solution, I bet you guys can sub 10 it
> 
> D2 L2 B2 D2 F2 D2 R2 F R2 F' U L' B' D B D U F2 D'


I got 8.07+, almost not sub-PB... I suck at easy scrambles.
Btw, nice T perm.


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## kcl (May 20, 2014)

TDM said:


> I got 8.07+, almost not sub-PB... I suck at easy scrambles.
> Btw, nice T perm.



Thanks  I learned that from walker on saturday, it finally came in handy haha.


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## Soren333 (May 21, 2014)

Can someone explain to me why this member introduction thread is so popular/active?


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## Phillip1847 (May 21, 2014)

kclejeune said:


> So this scramble broke my PB with a 4.63.
> 
> Try it before you do my solution, I bet you guys can sub 10 it
> 
> ...


...
x2 F2 R2 U R D2 //XXcross
R' U R y' R U R' // Pair 3
U' L U' L' U2 y' L' U' L // Pair 4
U f R U R' U' f' // LL

First solution. Then I looked at yours.


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## Rocky0701 (May 21, 2014)

Soren333 said:


> Can someone explain to me why this member introduction thread is so popular/active?


Because Marcel continued to post about his progress here and people replied, then it pretty much became the gathering place for older cubers, and a few young ones too. I don't know if that is the actual answer, but i think that based upon what i have observed in this thread, that is the reason.


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## kcl (May 21, 2014)

Phillip1847 said:


> ...
> x2 F2 R2 U R D2 //XXcross
> R' U R y' R U R' // Pair 3
> U' L U' L' U2 y' L' U' L // Pair 4
> ...



That's technically more efficient than mine haha. I feel like mine may still be faster despite being like 4 moves longer.


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## MarcelP (May 21, 2014)

kclejeune said:


> So this scramble broke my PB with a 4.63.
> 
> Try it before you do my solution, I bet you guys can sub 10 it
> 
> ...



I had a DNF.. I freaked out during inspection. Did not know what to concentrate on.. I saw to much good stuf.. LOL



Soren333 said:


> Can someone explain to me why this member introduction thread is so popular/active?



This is where the cool guys hang out.. 


Rocky0701 said:


> but i think that based upon what i have observed in this thread, that is the reason.



Yep, just a friendly topic where you can post your stuff without getting replies as 'you argument is false' bla bla..


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## MarcelP (May 21, 2014)

In the last week did I get several sub 22 Ao100's I finally dare to call myself sub 22 

I feel sub 20 is getting real close. Some solves of todays Ao100 (21.45)



Spoiler



7. 20.72 F R' U' R D F' R B U' L2 U2 F2 R2 B L2 B R2 B' R2 U2
8. DNF B U2 L2 F' D2 R2 F2 L2 B D2 U' L2 U' R' F D U' B2 L D
9. 20.62 L2 B2 F2 U2 B2 R' B2 F2 L' R B L' U2 F' R2 D' F' D U' L'
10. 16.69 F2 D F2 R2 U B2 D R2 B2 F2 U B' R2 F U2 R' F' U L2 D
11. 18.57 B2 D L2 D F2 L2 D B2 U' B2 U' B L U B' D' L2 R2 B2
12. 19.36 L2 B2 L2 B' U2 B' L2 B L2 F' L' U F2 L' D2 F2 U' F D2


[video=youtube_share;LPCLi8fMN8o]http://youtu.be/LPCLi8fMN8o[/video]


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## sk8erman41 (May 21, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> In the last week did I get several sub 22 Ao100's I finally dare to call myself sub 22
> 
> I feel sub 20 is getting real close. Some solves of todays Ao100 (21.45)
> 
> ...



Nice! I really enjoy your vids. Its fun watching someone with a similar speed (you are slightly faster than me). I know that you will get to that sub-20 soon. How much "deliberate practice" do you do these days? I know you do fairly large sessions weekly so do you mainly just time yourself (that's what we all like to do)?


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## MarcelP (May 21, 2014)

sk8erman41 said:


> How much "deliberate practice" do you do these days? I know you do fairly large sessions weekly so do you mainly just time yourself (that's what we all like to do)?



I think two times per week I slow solve in the train getting back home. I do one hour slow solving (not disturbing other passengers). I look for the best F2L cases, of practice hard OLL's doing them over and over (slowly). At home I have a family with small children so I am not that delibirate at training. Sundays I get up early (before the rest) and try to squeeze an Ao100 out before I have to make breakfast for little hungry people. In mid week I try to do at least one Ao12 timed before I go to bed, but most often (like today) I skip watching TV and do a Ao50. Being slightly faster the last few days (or weeks) motivates me tremendously.


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## MarcelP (May 21, 2014)

sk8erman41 said:


> Nice! I really enjoy your vids.



Oh,... I just made my first edited video. I have a new OS (Ubuntu) and I am trying out different editors. I did this (the cool slowmotion) with OpenShot:

[video=youtube_share;9oEZMfS4Gn8]http://youtu.be/9oEZMfS4Gn8[/video]


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## sneaklyfox (May 21, 2014)

Awesome solve and cool slomo.


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## Rocky0701 (May 21, 2014)

Nice solve! It's a shame that it couldn't have been sub 12 though


----------



## DeeDubb (May 21, 2014)

Must be the Owl City...


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## MarcelP (May 22, 2014)

sneaklyfox said:


> Awesome solve and cool slomo.



Thanks!! That will not happen again soon I guess 



Rocky0701 said:


> Nice solve! It's a shame that it couldn't have been sub 12 though



Yeah, looking at the slowmotion I see many mis flicks etc. Could have been faster. But then again. I was cubing above my comfertable looking ahead speed and that causes me to cube that sloppy.


DeeDubb said:


> Must be the Owl City...



Great song huh?


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## kcl (May 22, 2014)

Great job! I see you safely sub 20 in the near future


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## MarcelP (May 22, 2014)

kclejeune said:


> Great job! I see you safely sub 20 in the near future



Thanks! I really hope so, but I think it will take a while. I do not really mind though. I never dreamed of becomming as fast as I am right now. So sub 20 will only be a bonus.. LOL


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## MarcelP (May 25, 2014)

New PB Ao12 today:


Best average of 12: *20.15*
23-34 - 19.44 19.90 (18.96) 19.64 19.40 20.45 21.82 20.73 (22.28) 20.33 20.57 19.21

I was a little while in 'the zone'. Looking ahead perfectly turning slow getting all 19's  But right after number 34 I lost it and got nothing but 22's and 23's.. Ao50 ended up 22.22

EDIt: btw the first 23 where with AoLong but it was too fast for me today. At solve 23 I was averaging 23.XX. Then I swithed to my old Weilong V2 wich feel soooo slow then (but lovely controllable).


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## Rocky0701 (May 25, 2014)

ellwd said:


> Welcome Marcel!
> Good introduction. Nice to have some more of us "oldies" on here (I'm 39).
> Hope you enjoy it here.





MarcelP said:


> New PB Ao12 today:
> 
> 
> Best average of 12: *20.15*
> ...


Wow, you have really been improving lately. Great job!


----------



## MarcelP (May 25, 2014)

Thanks! being so close to sub 20 totally made me cube crazy.. I just had a two hour sitting..

Best average of 12: *19.90*
179-190 - (22.72) 20.36 21.21 20.01 (17.71) 19.20 19.40 21.29 20.93 19.29 19.09 18.25


WoWHHHHoooo first sub freaking twenty!!


----------



## Schmidt (May 25, 2014)

Congrats!

how was the rest of the 2 hour session?



Spoiler: today I did...



22.25, 26.08, 22.44, 20.18, 26.44, 23.44, 21.13, 18.19, 28.36, 19.34, (17.21), 23.69, 26.21, 22.50, (29.86), (29.03), 19.28, 23.25, 27.91, 17.83, 21.18, 26.38, 20.40, 28.43, 28.97, 23.96, 20.58, 20.63, 17.72, 22.15, 25.68, (42.55), 25.55, 22.75, 24.27, 18.56, 19.53, 23.94, (31.69), 26.93, 18.25, 27.33, 21.15, 19.66, 19.30, 22.59, 23.66, 19.56, (17.05), 24.77, (17.22), 19.91, 22.81, 23.46, 23.33, 19.33, 24.93, 18.97, 23.97, (30.81), 25.15, 23.44, 24.69, 21.88, 20.72, 18.46, 24.46, 22.93, (17.69), 26.19, 24.08, 28.33, 22.96, 19.52, 19.28, 18.83, 23.47, 19.77, 21.36, 25.38, 23.06, 22.44, 18.59, 17.91, 23.58, 21.84, 24.91, 20.43, (17.13), 24.80, 23.50, 21.56, 26.71, 24.34, 20.44, 24.15, 24.34, 20.34, 19.78, 22.81


number of times: 100/100
best time: 17.05
worst time: 42.55


current avg5: 22.43 (σ = 1.93)
best avg5: 18.90 (σ = 1.46)


current avg12: 22.61 (σ = 1.91)
best avg12: 20.61 (σ = 2.41)


current avg50: 22.23 (σ = 2.27)
best avg50: 21.90 (σ = 2.44)


current avg100: 22.62 (σ = 2.86)
best avg100: 22.62 (σ = 2.86)


session avg: 22.62 (σ = 2.86)
session mean: 22.86

Average of 5: 18.90
1. 19.56 F2 L2 F2 D R2 U2 R2 U' L2 F2 D R' B2 U' F2 D' L' R' B F2 
2. (17.05) U' B2 F2 R2 D U R2 F2 U' R2 F L' B R' D R2 U2 B L' F D' 
3. (24.77) L2 U B2 F2 L2 D U F2 D' L2 D2 L B' R' U F2 D2 B D' L2 B 
4. 17.22 U2 R' L' U B2 R L2 B U D F B U2 R2 B' L2 B U2 L2 B' 
5. 19.91 L2 U2 R F2 R' F2 U2 L' B2 L2 R' B F U F L' R' B U' F D' 



Average of 12: 20.61
1. 18.25 B' U2 R B' U' L' B L2 F' L2 U2 B2 L F2 U2 D2 R B2 L2 U2 
2. (27.33) L2 D2 R2 B F2 D2 L2 F R2 B' F' U' L2 R2 F' U' F L D B' F' 
3. 21.15 B2 R2 F' L2 B' D2 U2 B' R2 B' L B' R D2 F' L2 D R F2 D2 
4. 19.66 L2 F2 U2 L2 B2 F U2 L2 D2 U2 F2 R' B' D U R' D2 L' D2 U' F' 
5. 19.30 L2 F2 L2 D' L2 U F2 D' F2 D2 B2 L D B' D2 U' B' R F U 
6. 22.59 F' D F R U2 F' R B U' R' D2 B2 R F2 B2 R2 U2 F2 B2 L' 
7. 23.66 D2 B' L2 R2 F D2 F2 L2 U2 B' R2 D' F' D' R' B' F D' U' B L 
8. 19.56 F2 L2 F2 D R2 U2 R2 U' L2 F2 D R' B2 U' F2 D' L' R' B F2 
9. (17.05) U' B2 F2 R2 D U R2 F2 U' R2 F L' B R' D R2 U2 B L' F D' 
10. 24.77 L2 U B2 F2 L2 D U F2 D' L2 D2 L B' R' U F2 D2 B D' L2 B 
11. 17.22 U2 R' L' U B2 R L2 B U D F B U2 R2 B' L2 B U2 L2 B' 
12. 19.91 L2 U2 R F2 R' F2 U2 L' B2 L2 R' B F U F L' R' B U' F D'


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## sneaklyfox (May 26, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> WoWHHHHoooo first sub freaking twenty!!



Yayyy!!!! Knew you could do it! You're awesome!!


----------



## kcl (May 26, 2014)

Yay marcel! You'll get the ao100 soon!


----------



## mark49152 (May 26, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> Best average of 12: *19.90*
> 179-190 - (22.72) 20.36 21.21 20.01 (17.71) 19.20 19.40 21.29 20.93 19.29 19.09 18.25
> 
> WoWHHHHoooo first sub freaking twenty!!


Congrats Marcel, good job! . Was that 190+ solves in one sitting?!


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## MarcelP (May 26, 2014)

Schmidt said:


> Congrats!
> 
> how was the rest of the 2 hour session?



Thanks. I had an 22.02 average 

There was also this one:

151. *14.00 *D R2 D' F2 D U2 L2 U2 F2 R2 B2 R B U B F2 L2 D' L F' U

I did it on yellow cross. I can't remember if I had some sort of skip.





sneaklyfox said:


> Yayyy!!!! Knew you could do it! You're awesome!!



[ BigSmile ] Thanks! [/ BigSmile ] 



kclejeune said:


> Yay marcel! You'll get the ao100 soon!



I do not know about that but it might some day 


mark49152 said:


> Congrats Marcel, good job! . Was that 190+ solves in one sitting?!


Yeah.. No problem. I did well over 300 solves over the whole day. The first 100 before my family came out of bed and the rest before dinner. Total average 22.34


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## mark49152 (May 26, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> Yeah.. No problem. I did well over 300 solves over the whole day. The first 100 before my family came out of bed and the rest before dinner. Total average 22.34


I'm lucky if I get time to do that many in a week. I allow an hour for an ao50 (usually takes a bit less) and try to do one each weekday.


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## MarcelP (May 26, 2014)

mark49152 said:


> I'm lucky if I get time to do that many in a week. I allow an hour for an ao50 (usually takes a bit less) and try to do one each weekday.



Yeah, but it is not usual for me to do so many solves on a sunday (or any day). But like I said, I was cube crazy because I was getting close to that sub 20 PB.  I wish I could do 300 solves every day.. Like today I have not done any solves (yet).


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## mark49152 (May 26, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> I wish I could do 300 solves every day.


My only chance of that is to get sub-8


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## MarcelP (May 26, 2014)

mark49152 said:


> My only chance of that is to get sub-8



LOL! Or sub 7 like Feliks 

I just did an Ao100 PLL training. Man I suck:


Mean: 3.12
Average: 3.11
Best time: 1.62
Median: 3.12
Worst time: 5.52
Standard deviation: 0.70

You can do that in a few minutes. Can you do that also? I want to reference with your times.. I think I should be doing so much better.


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## mark49152 (May 26, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> Can you do that also? I want to reference with your times.. I think I should be doing so much better.


Yeah I will give that a go when I have some time. Holiday weekend = limited cubing, and I'm late with the substep comp results as well...

Do you do PLL attacks? That's the way I usually practice PLLs. My average is about 57.

Edit: did your 3.12 ao100 include recognition?


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## MarcelP (May 26, 2014)

mark49152 said:


> Yeah I will give that a go when I have some time. Holiday weekend = limited cubing, and I'm late with the substep comp results as well...
> 
> Do you do PLL attacks? That's the way I usually practice PLLs. My average is about 57.
> 
> Edit: did your 3.12 ao100 include recognition?



No, I don't do PLL attacks. Too hard.. 

No, not include recognition.. But no align before starting..


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## mark49152 (May 26, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> No, I don't do PLL attacks. Too hard..


Yeah they are hard but make great warm-ups, they ensure all PLLs get equal practice, and I think they are good for developing overall TPS. I screw up half the time though, and don't count screw-ups in averages.


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## mark49152 (May 27, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> No, not include recognition.. But no align before starting..


Including AUF afterwards, 2.91 stdev 0.5. That was pretty interesting. Some of those I thought were faster, weren't. In particular my A perms were slow, I think because I do a sort of regrip at the start. My G perms are better than I thought


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## Rocky0701 (May 27, 2014)

Marcel, just to let you know. I am now broke because you and Feliks made me order the Aolong. Thanks


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## sneaklyfox (May 27, 2014)

I did PLL attacks before just because. But that was over a year ago. I think it's actually better for me to practice each PLL by themselves. I might be able to execute 14 moves fairly quickly but it's harder to go as fast if you have more moves because you get tired. Also I think it's better to work on one PLL at a time. Well basically I think PLL time attacks are good for warm up but that you should do them separately for actual training.


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## MarcelP (May 27, 2014)

Rocky0701 said:


> Marcel, just to let you know. I am now broke because you and Feliks made me order the Aolong. Thanks


Trust me, is it worth it 


mark49152 said:


> Including AUF afterwards, 2.91 stdev 0.5. That was pretty interesting. Some of those I thought were faster, weren't. In particular my A perms were slow, I think because I do a sort of regrip at the start. My G perms are better than I thought


Nice mark! I now have a reference point. I want to be able to do that within a month.


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## mark49152 (May 27, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> Nice mark! I now have a reference point. I want to be able to do that within a month.


There's not a big difference, could be just luck. Or maybe you have one or two slow ones that let you down (your stdev is greater). Personally I think there are easier ways to lose 0.2 secs than 10% improvement in pure PLL speed. Like PLL recognition (prob about 1 sec), improved lookahead, or the perennial cross+1


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## MarcelP (May 27, 2014)

mark49152 said:


> There's not a big difference, could be just luck. Or maybe you have one or two slow ones that let you down (your stdev is greater). Personally I think there are easier ways to lose 0.2 secs than 10% improvement in pure PLL speed. Like PLL recognition (prob about 1 sec), improved lookahead, or the perennial cross+1



I agree that there is not a big difference. But the fact is that I am ok with my cross, cross + 1, F2L, OLL but not with PLL. I want to be cool like Kennan and all the other guys who do their PLL incl recognition in sub 1.5  I think there is not much to gain in my solves at the moment. Meaning it will be very very hard to gain any speed at cross, F2L, and OLL.


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## DeeDubb (May 27, 2014)

I also ordered an AoLong based on you Marcel... If I don't instantly turn into Feliks, I'm going to be upset.


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## TDM (May 27, 2014)

Earlier I thought I was going to get a LiYing after exams, but now everyone's getting the AoLong... which should I get?


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## MarcelP (May 27, 2014)

DeeDubb said:


> I also ordered an AoLong based on you Marcel... If I don't instantly turn into Feliks, I'm going to be upset.



LOL.. Expect your times to drop at least 80%.... NOT. 



TDM said:


> Earlier I thought I was going to get a LiYing after exams, but now everyone's getting the AoLong... which should I get?



AoLong for sure. But LiYing is not expensive and fun to solve too. performance-wise AoLong for the win..


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## TDM (May 27, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> AoLong for sure. But LiYing is not expensive and fun to solve too. *performance-wise AoLong for the win..*


After what everybody's said, I was definitely thinking more about the AoLong... but what do you mean by the bolded bit? Speed? Reverse corner cutting? Lockups? (basically the three things I look for)


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## Rocky0701 (May 27, 2014)

TDM said:


> After what everybody's said, I was definitely thinking more about the AoLong... but what do you mean by the bolded bit? Speed? Reverse corner cutting? Lockups? (basically the three things I look for)


I think he meams pretty much all of those aspects combined create a cube with great performance. I am excited for mine!


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## TDM (May 27, 2014)

Rocky0701 said:


> I think he meams pretty much all of those aspects combined create a cube with great performance. I am excited for mine!


I don't like cubes that are particularly fast, I'm looking for something not much faster than my ShuangRen. I really like everything about my ShuangRen except the lockups, which is why I'm looking for a new cube. So speed is a tricky one, but I think (although I'm not sure) I'd prefer the slower of the two.


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## mark49152 (May 27, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> I think there is not much to gain in my solves at the moment. Meaning it will be very very hard to gain any speed at cross, F2L, and OLL.


I have also been wondering how I will improve further. 22 seems to be another plateau for me - I'm still improving but very slowly. 

I started focusing on what's different between a 19 sec and 24 sec solve, for me. PLL definitely makes a difference - if it's a U perm I can recognise and finish in under 2 sec, whereas for most it's 3-4. But the biggest difference is continuity. In a 19 sec solve everything runs together - I see the pairs immediately and execute them smoothly, and the same for OLL/PLL. They aren't even necessarily easy cases - just well executed, including any AUFs, regrips or rotations. In a 24 sec solve, on the other hand, there is usually some pausing, panicking, fumbling or locking-up. It just doesn't feel as "easy".

So I'm continuing to put my focus on practice that will improve flow - cross+1, F2L lookahead, PLL two-sided recognition, and PLL attacks to improve composure in execution. Plus full solves of course.

Just my two cents, everyone's different.


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## MarcelP (May 27, 2014)

mark49152 said:


> So I'm continuing to put my focus on practice that will improve flow - cross+1, F2L lookahead, PLL two-sided recognition, and PLL attacks to improve composure in execution. Plus full solves of course.



Yeah, me too ofcourse. But I think, looking back at how I got from 30 to where I am, to go on from here will be very slow progression. I think, just cubing for years will make you faster. So maybe in a while I will be comfertable sub 20 or sub 19 or so. But I do not expect any growth spurts in the near future 

Btw, where do you get the LS + LL scrambles.. I think I will work on that for a while..



TDM said:


> After what everybody's said, I was definitely thinking more about the AoLong... but what do you mean by the bolded bit? Speed? Reverse corner cutting? Lockups? (basically the three things I look for)


Absolutely 0% lockups where LiYing can lock up because it is less stable. Speed of AoLong is also higher (not per ce a good thing imho), and the cornercutting is not from this world. Can not be any better..


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## TDM (May 27, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> Absolutely 0% lockups where LiYing can lock up because it is less stable. Speed of AoLong is also higher (*not per ce a good thing imho*), and the cornercutting is not from this world. *Can not be any better*..


You kinda contradicted yourself  I'll get the AoLong, thanks.

Also, LSLL scrambles can be found in qqTimer; go to SPECIALITY SCRAMBLES -> 3x3x3 subsets.


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## kcl (May 27, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> I agree that there is not a big difference. But the fact is that I am ok with my cross, cross + 1, F2L, OLL but not with PLL. I want to be cool like Kennan and all the other guys who do their PLL incl recognition in sub 1.5  I think there is not much to gain in my solves at the moment. Meaning it will be very very hard to gain any speed at cross, F2L, and OLL.



Lol mine actually aren't that fast, but TPS is key.


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## sneaklyfox (May 27, 2014)

I remember 22 being a barrier for me. I forget how long it took to get past it, but there was definitely a plateau there. And then the next one is 16 I guess which I am finally now slowly moving past after feeling stuck for a year. But as long as I know I'm making improvement I am happy. Curse the day when I feel no improvement at all! I hope it never comes.


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## TDM (May 27, 2014)

sneaklyfox said:


> I remember 22 being a barrier for me. I forget how long it took to get past it, but there was definitely a plateau there.


Same for me too, I spent a few months between 21-22, probably from May until September last year. I got my ShuangRen early September (I remember it being the day before school started), and that dropped my times to 18.5ish. My ZhanChi was dead, and so was my GuHong, so I really did need a new cube.


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## MarcelP (May 27, 2014)

TDM said:


> You kinda contradicted yourself  I'll get the AoLong, thanks.
> 
> Also, LSLL scrambles can be found in qqTimer; go to SPECIALITY SCRAMBLES -> 3x3x3 subsets.



No, no contradiction.. The cornercutting is the best. 'Could not be better'. And speed is fast (not per ce a good thing).  I hope you understand it.


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## TDM (May 27, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> No, no contradiction.. The cornercutting is the best. 'Could not be better'. And speed is fast (not per ce a good thing).  I hope you understand it.


Yeah, I get what you mean now


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## MarcelP (May 27, 2014)

TDM said:


> Yeah, I get what you mean now



Ok, that qqtimer is wicked btw! Very cool site.


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## mark49152 (May 27, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> Yeah, me too ofcourse. But I think, looking back at how I got from 30 to where I am, to go on from here will be very slow progression. I think, just cubing for years will make you faster. So maybe in a while I will be comfertable sub 20 or sub 19 or so. But I do not expect any growth spurts in the near future
> 
> Btw, where do you get the LS + LL scrambles.. I think I will work on that for a while..


qqtimer, under 3x3 substeps.

Yeah I don't expect any spurts in progress, but am determined to continue being systematic about identifying weaknesses and potential gains, and targeting my practice at those. 

Actually 2-look OLL also slows me down so I will also finish off those. There are about 15 cases I still use 2-look for, and those solves are never sub-20.


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## sk8erman41 (May 27, 2014)

Im glad to hear that 22ish was a plateau for many people because that's where I currently am. I really enjoy the substep thread because it points out how horrible my cross times are. I think that if I work on that I may be able to break through. I agree that I don't know how much faster I will be able to get past sub-20. I feel like my solves are pretty smooth without as many pauses, but my TPS will be my limiting factor.


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## pipkiksass (May 28, 2014)

sk8erman41 said:


> Im glad to hear that 22ish was a plateau for many people because that's where I currently am. I really enjoy the substep thread because it points out how horrible my cross times are. I think that if I work on that I may be able to break through. I agree that I don't know how much faster I will be able to get past sub-20. I feel like my solves are pretty smooth without as many pauses, but my TPS will be my limiting factor.



I was stuck there for AAAaaaaaaaaaaaaAAAAAges! I went straight from the race to sub-30 to the race to sub-25, but then took a few months off before even trying the race to sub-20. 

I've managed to get sub-20 with a poor cross+1 and about 60% full OLL. This means I have room for improvement (wahoo!). 

I also fall into the trap of thinking my solves are smooth. They're actually surprisingly start-stop if I watch them back, but you're absolutely right about TPS - the fastest cubers can do some F2L cases that take me a few seconds in 1/2 a second. That's a much bigger discrepancy than between (for example) my PLLs and theirs. I've watched yours (as you know!!!), and yeah you are pretty smooth. Probably smoother than me, but can still work on working out the next F2L case. Mark does BLD pair + tracking, where he BLD inserts while also trying to track the next pair - that might help? I need to do it myself if I get a chance!

While I think there is some speed gain in TPS, the vast majority is lookahead - being able to predict not only the position but case of your next pair. The better you get at this, the smoother your solves become, and the more F2L becomes like one long algorithm. Or so I hear!


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## TDM (May 28, 2014)

pipkiksass said:


> I've managed to get sub-20 with a poor cross+1 and about 60% full OLL. This means I have room for improvement (wahoo!).


I've somehow reached sub-15 with a _very_ bad cross, an even worse transition to F2L and only 50% of OLL... my life would be easier than yours if I could be bothered to try and improve them 


> I also fall into the trap of thinking my solves are smooth. They're actually surprisingly start-stop if I watch them back, but you're absolutely right about TPS - the fastest cubers can do some F2L cases that take me a few seconds in 1/2 a second. That's a much bigger discrepancy than between (for example) my PLLs and theirs.


Same for me too, and I think my recog for LL is decent but actually I have no idea. Last time I filmed solves it wasn't.


> The better you get at this, the smoother your solves become, and the more F2L becomes like one long algorithm.


I actually get that sometimes! Not often though  My fast solves don't come from luck (I don't even know what luck is, never happened to me) but from when I suddenly get good lookahead. It happens once in a while, usually enough for an Ao5/Ao12, but then my lookahead starts to suck again. I really am not consistent with my times/splits.

If I really practised my lookahead and never paused during F2L, I could be averaging 13 by now. And if I practised Cross+1, I could possibly take 2 seconds off that too. And learning full OLL might get my times down half a second. And if I get a cube that doesn't lock up during PLL and drill my slower algs... 0.5-1 seconds from that too. I'd guess (although just like thinking my solves were smooth before, I could be completely wrong here) I could get sub-10 before August if I really tried. But I don't have the motivation to. I haven't focused on improving since PLL, and if I ever have done it's ended with me giving up quickly. Even a set of 30 algs was too many. And then 27 for WV... I learned 8 of those and have forgotten 2.


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## sneaklyfox (May 29, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> My youngest is a natural (Feliks watch out):
> [video=youtube_share;RaG6DS4IhVQ]http://youtu.be/RaG6DS4IhVQ[/video]



Wait... how did I miss this?? So awesome.


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## sneaklyfox (May 29, 2014)

Oh yeah, and I was in the zone today. Here are my last 65 solves:


Spoiler



14.03, 13.67, 16.46, 12.34, 16.13, 16.71, 13.56, 12.45, 13.25, 13.97, 15.96, 14.10, 12.85, 13.57, 14.44, 14.62, 15.29, 14.53, 13.74, 18.34, 12.22, 15.12, 12.68, 14.03, 14.37, 18.22, 15.73, 18.10, 14.68, 15.40, 14.52, 13.19, 15.48, 14.77, 15.70, 15.39, 13.66, 13.49, 11.87, 17.15, 15.12, 14.05, 18.81, 14.46, 14.29, 12.48, 13.66, 14.90, 15.23, 13.26, 12.22, 13.38, 14.66, 17.75, 13.20, 15.61, 11.71, 14.00, 14.68, 14.77, 12.48, 15.33, 17.40, 17.26, 15.08, 12.67





Spoiler: Time Distribution



11+: 2
12+: 9
13+: 13
14+: 17
15+: 13
16+: 3
17+: 4
18+: 4



When I think that some months ago I would rarely get a sub-13... then I got to the point of one sub-13 a day, then a few a day. Now this... about 1/6 solves sub-13. Whoop!


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## kcl (May 29, 2014)

*Hi, Marcel from Holland here*

Reading through this, I'm realizing my solves USED to be smooth. My turning is pretty choppy and ew now. I still feel like my week point is LL, it's mid 3 range.



sneaklyfox said:


> Oh yeah, and I was in the zone today. Here are my last 65 solves:
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> ...



Edit: yay improvement! I suspect you'll have a spurt of improvement soon.


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## MarcelP (May 29, 2014)

sneaklyfox said:


> Wait... how did I miss this?? So awesome.


Yes, he wants to learn how to solve badly. He asks me every day. But when I sit down and start teahcing he litterally loses attention in 5 seconds. LOL



sneaklyfox said:


> Oh yeah, and I was in the zone today. Here are my last 65 solves:
> 
> 11+: 2
> 12+: 9
> ...



I clearly remember saying here in the topic I had one sub 20 every 100 solves or so.. And I thought that was cool.  Now every Ao12 has a few. Seeing you have two 11's there... in a while you will avaerage sub 12. I am sure 



kclejeune said:


> Reading through this, I'm realizing my solves USED to be smooth. My turning is pretty choppy and ew now. I still feel like my week point is LL, it's mid 3 range.



Yeah your LL is so slow..  If TPS is your best feature, how come F2L is the best part? I think your LL is just fine. Smoothness is the key for you to get better.


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## kcl (May 29, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> Yes, he wants to learn how to solve badly. He asks me every day. But when I sit down and start teahcing he litterally loses attention in 5 seconds. LOL
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I feel like two things hold back my LL. One is that I don't remember to gogogogo turn. The other is that I'm petty sure a bunch of my OLL algs suck, there's like half of them not sub 1 consistently. That being said I do need to try and get smoother.


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## MarcelP (May 29, 2014)

Yeah! New Ao100 PB again..  Today I feel awesome. Something is changing in my solves. 



Spoiler



Mean: 21.38
Average: *21.36*
Best time: 13.72
Median: 21.06
Worst time: 30.21
Standard deviation: 3.06

Best average of 5: 18.64
2-6 - (16.18) 19.79 16.32 19.81 (28.80)

Best average of 12: 20.04
86-97 - 19.94 22.41 17.93 21.76 19.60 (16.60) 19.96 22.53 18.25 (22.92) 18.43 19.55



I filmed a few. This 20.26 Ao12 was nice. But my battery was exhausted and with the next solve (an 18 secs solve) it was even a better Ao12 


[video=youtube_share;nffGHDNSfx4]http://youtu.be/nffGHDNSfx4[/video]



Spoiler



40. 21.18 R2 B2 U2 B2 F2 R2 U B2 U R2 D' F R' F U' F2 L B R' U' B2 U'
41. 19.27 U2 B2 U' R2 U2 F2 U' R2 D2 L2 F' L' B2 F' U2 F2 R D' B D'
42. 17.11 U R2 F2 L2 U2 F2 U F2 U2 L2 D F U' R U' L2 D' B L2 B
43. 21.90 F2 R2 B2 L2 D2 U R2 B2 D2 F2 U B L F U R' B' F' U2 R D' U'
44. 20.17 F2 D' B2 L2 U2 B2 D B2 D B2 U2 R' L F D B2 L2 U2 B L U
45. 17.92 D L2 U' F2 U F2 L2 F2 R2 U F2 L' B' L D L F D' B' F2 R'
46. 30.20 R2 D B2 L2 D2 F2 L2 F2 U L2 U' R B L2 F D' B' D2 F U L D
47. 23.28 L2 U2 B2 U' B2 D' F2 L2 D' F2 U L U2 L2 B2 F R2 B2 L' B R
48. 19.06 D' R2 U' B2 F2 U F2 D' B2 D2 U' L' B' R F U2 F L2 F R' D
49. 19.65 B2 F2 U L2 D' L2 D' F2 D F2 U' R B' F L2 U R2 D2 R F' L U2
50. 23.31 R2 F2 D' B2 R2 D' R2 F2 R2 U L2 F U' B' L F U2 F L' D2 B
51. 18.74 U F2 L2 B2 U F2 D L2 U' R2 D2 L' U' R L' B' F R2 F R2 U'
52. 19.28 D2 B2 L2 U2 F2 D B2 U2 B2 F2 L' B' F L' D L' U2 B U' F2 U


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## sneaklyfox (May 29, 2014)

Wow, Marcel, nice! Your F2L part is quite nice actually. I think your PLL recognition and TPS could use work though. I know you'll be sub-20 soon. As for me being sub-12... well, I think that is still awhile away yet, but more and more often I feel like I'm in the zone.


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## MarcelP (May 29, 2014)

sneaklyfox said:


> Wow, Marcel, nice! Your F2L part is quite nice actually.



Thanks! I really like hearing that. 



sneaklyfox said:


> I think your PLL recognition and TPS could use work though.



Yes, that is what I have been trying to say to Mark. I feel like Cross and F2L are very good (for me that is). And I feel that I suck major at PLL.  I will focus on PLL for a while. I think sub 20 is in reach. If I could improve my PLL a lot it will be easy to get there.


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## mark49152 (May 29, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> Yes, that is what I have been trying to say to Mark. I feel like Cross and F2L are very good (for me that is). And I feel that I suck major at PLL.  I will focus on PLL for a while. I think sub 20 is in reach. If I could improve my PLL a lot it will be easy to get there.


Hmmm, well, your PLL is 3 and your F2L is 14 seconds, so which would you rather achieve a 10% improvement at? Plus, to get sub-20 by improving your PLL wouldn't you need to get your PLL sub-1? Good luck dude  

But hey, it's only a hobby, we can do whatever floats our boats. I have been practising belt method this week. 

I agree PLL recognition is low-hanging fruit though. Somehow bad recognition bugs me more than other forms of crappiness, because I'm not actually turning at all, so it feels like wasted time, ripe for elimination. I started trying to improve my PLL recognition cheat sheet - if you have any feedback to help improve it, let me know: http://www.speedsolving.com/forum/showthread.php?41108-Two-sided-PLL-recognition-guide


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## MarcelP (May 30, 2014)

mark49152 said:


> Hmmm, well, your PLL is 3 and your F2L is 14 seconds, so which would you rather achieve a 10% improvement at? Plus, to get sub-20 by improving your PLL wouldn't you need to get your PLL sub-1? Good luck dude
> 
> But hey, it's only a hobby, we can do whatever floats our boats. I have been practising belt method this week.
> 
> I agree PLL recognition is low-hanging fruit though. Somehow bad recognition bugs me more than other forms of crappiness, because I'm not actually turning at all, so it feels like wasted time, ripe for elimination. I started trying to improve my PLL recognition cheat sheet - if you have any feedback to help improve it, let me know: http://www.speedsolving.com/forum/showthread.php?41108-Two-sided-PLL-recognition-guide



Yeah, I totally get what you mean. But it is that it took me 2 years hard work to make the F2L like it is today and I doubt there is a lot of room for improvement. And PLL on the other hand is too slow and I need to work on recognition. I have been thinking about making an Android app for the 2 sided recognition. Full color neutral. I can make an app like that without any problem, the only thing is it goes from my cubing time. And that time is precious


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## DeeDubb (May 30, 2014)

Marcel, do you ever use http://twisttheweb.com/? It's fun for racing with people all around the world. It might be fun to meet on there and race sometime, though you are considerably faster than me.


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## Schmidt (May 30, 2014)

We do have B.O.O.M meetings from time to time on TTW. If your age is 40+ you can apply.


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## DeeDubb (May 30, 2014)

Schmidt said:


> We do have B.O.O.M meetings from time to time on TTW. If your age is 40+ you can apply.



nah, I'm 30.


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## MarcelP (May 30, 2014)

DeeDubb said:


> nah, I'm 30.



LOL.. Although it is intended for the elderly, young ones can join aswell  So, yes I do know about TTW.

EDIT: BOOM, Battle of Old man


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## pipkiksass (May 30, 2014)

B.O.A.O.M.? Battle of ALMOST old men?  I'm 32. Just because we're under 40, we're still patrons of this bar, goddam it, and we have rights! Oh god, who put Tina Turner on the jukebox again?


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## MarcelP (May 30, 2014)

pipkiksass said:


> B.O.A.O.M.? Battle of ALMOST old men?  I'm 32. Just because we're under 40, we're still patrons of this bar, goddam it, and we have rights! Oh god, who put Tina Turner on the jukebox again?



LOL.. Last time even 'none' men joined. SneaklyFox raced OH against us slow 2H farts.


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## MarcelP (May 30, 2014)

Btw, 

I made a beginner tutorial for my son (11 years). He has no interest in anything but Playstation. Yet, he learned how to solve the cube!! I am so freaking proud. I am trying to get him to learn it to do it without the tutorial so he can come with me to competitions:


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## mark49152 (May 30, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> it took me 2 years hard work to make the F2L like it is today and I doubt there is a lot of room for improvement. And PLL on the other hand is too slow


Let's have a race - you do a month of PLL training, I'll do a month of F2L training, and we'll see if I can catch you up


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## MarcelP (May 30, 2014)

mark49152 said:


> Let's have a race - you do a month of PLL training, I'll do a month of F2L training, and we'll see if I can catch you up



That sounds pretty cool actually  Let's do that.


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## h2f (May 30, 2014)

Sign me in, I'm 40.


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## DeeDubb (May 30, 2014)

Let me know the times when you TWT, so I can hop in


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## newtonbase (May 30, 2014)

Hi all. I see this thread pop up regularly but have only just realised that it's a place for the more mature cubers. I'm on the verge of 42 years old myself and have been cubing since late December (unless you count a brief but unsuccessful attempt in the early 80s). I average around 45s with a target of sub 30s global average. I'd also like to get to a competition and not come last. 

I've seen a few of you around here but thought I'd introduce myself.


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## mark49152 (May 30, 2014)

newtonbase said:


> I've seen a few of you around here but thought I'd introduce myself.


Hello. Welcome to the veterans' club


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## sk8erman41 (May 30, 2014)

pipkiksass said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I know there is always something to practice. I think you are exactly right about not only recognizing the next pair, but tracking the orientation as well so that I can get even smoother. As with any form of practice, I lose patience quickly and return to just solving . I really like the concept in Noah's mountain video and just need to be more dedicated. I am sure I will continue to improve with just solves but also realize that it will be a much slower process than actually doing dedicated practice. I'll "TRY :confused:" the BLD pair +tracking thing to see how that works. I have done BLD pairs, but not the tracking part also. Speedcuber4life has a good "F2L training" video on youtube that addresses this with a slightly different approach also.


MarcelP said:


> Btw,
> I made a beginner tutorial for my son (11 years). He has no interest in anything but Playstation. Yet, he learned how to solve the cube!! I am so freaking proud. I am trying to get him to learn it to do it without the tutorial so he can come with me to competitions


That is awesome!!! Congrats! I have a baby on the way (wife is due in November) and can't wait until it is old enough to teach the ways of the cube. 


newtonbase said:


> I average around 45s with a target of sub 30s global average. I'd also like to get to a competition and not come last.


 Enjoy the ride! I am almost certain that once you get to sub-30 you will seek 25,20,etc. it never ends. You can find evidence from all of us if you read through some history. I am sure that if you stick with it though you will be sub-30 before you know it. Good luck and have fun!

Side note: I am 30


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## newtonbase (May 30, 2014)

My son was born last week and I'll be doing all I can to get him interested in cubing. My 5 year old daughter likes messing around with cubes but can't concentrate long enough to learn to solve but I have got my niece below one minute. She's 9.

You are right about changing goals. I started off wanting a single sum 1 minute.


----------



## MarcelP (May 30, 2014)

newtonbase said:


> Hi all. I see this thread pop up regularly but have only just realised that it's a place for the more mature cubers. I'm on the verge of 42 years old myself and have been cubing since late December (unless you count a brief but unsuccessful attempt in the early 80s). I average around 45s with a target of sub 30s global average. I'd also like to get to a competition and not come last.
> 
> I've seen a few of you around here but thought I'd introduce myself.



Hi Man,

Welcome! Nice to see another 40 plusser. Don 't worry about the 30 seconds limit. We all achieved that here. You will too.


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## mark49152 (May 30, 2014)

newtonbase said:


> My son was born last week and I'll be doing all I can to get him interested in cubing.


Congratulations!


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## sneaklyfox (May 30, 2014)

newtonbase said:


> My son was born last week



Congratulations! And I love your avatar.


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## sneaklyfox (May 30, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> LOL.. Last time even 'none' men joined. SneaklyFox raced OH against us slow 2H farts.



I should make a petition to change it to BOOMAS (Battle Of Old Men And Sneaklyfox). 

Side note: Smashed my PB Ao12, Ao50, Ao100 again today! I love being in the zone!


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## newtonbase (May 30, 2014)

sneaklyfox said:


> Congratulations! And I love your avatar.



Yes, it was a baby gift and I just had to try a match a cube to the logo. It was harder than I thought.


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## MarcelP (May 30, 2014)

newtonbase said:


> My son was born last week...



Masseltof! 



sneaklyfox said:


> Side note: Smashed my PB Ao12, Ao50, Ao100 again today! I love being in the zone!



Whooohoo! What where the averages?


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## kcl (May 30, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> Masseltof!
> 
> 
> 
> Whooohoo! What where the averages?



I predict 
12.6x
13.5x
13.8x


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## sneaklyfox (May 31, 2014)

Ao12 = 13.48
Ao50 = 14.03
Ao100 = 14.68


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## CubeAllDay123 (May 31, 2014)

For f2l, look ahead is the best thing to improve your time, for speedcubers, the most important thing to focus on in the f2l stage is to never stop moving the cube. When you have found your 1st f2l pair, and are inserting it into its slot, an advanced speedcuber would already be looking for their next f2l pair. If you can manage this, your times should go down little by little. Good luck!

Happy cubing!


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## sneaklyfox (May 31, 2014)

CubeAllDay123 said:


> For f2l, look ahead is the best thing to improve your time, for speedcubers, the most important thing to focus on in the f2l stage is to never stop moving the cube. When you have found your 1st f2l pair, and are inserting it into its slot, an advanced speedcuber would already be looking for their next f2l pair. If you can manage this, your times should go down little by little. Good luck!
> 
> Happy cubing!



Is this a response to OP??

Anyway, I feel compelled to point out that an advanced speedcuber would not be looking for their next F2L pair when inserting the first pair into its slot. Way too slow. An advanced speedcuber would at least be looking for the next pair as soon as the first one is found if not already noticing stuck pairs and such stuff.


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## kcl (May 31, 2014)

sneaklyfox said:


> Is this a response to OP??
> 
> Anyway, I feel compelled to point out that an advanced speedcuber would not be looking for their next F2L pair when inserting the first pair into its slot. Way too slow. An advanced speedcuber would at least be looking for the next pair as soon as the first one is found if not already noticing stuck pairs and such stuff.


Can confirm, I plan next pair as soon as I see the current pair soluiton.


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## MarcelP (May 31, 2014)

Yeah, me too. I start looking for the next pair when I have found the first one. I also look for my first pair while doing the cross.


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## mark49152 (Jun 1, 2014)

Marcel, are you still solving CN or did you revert?


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## MarcelP (Jun 1, 2014)

New Ao12 PB... sub 19...



Spoiler



Best average of 12: 18.66
65-76 - 18.68 18.67 17.58 19.25 17.20 (16.57) 20.12 19.20 (20.16) 18.99 17.50 19.40

65. 18.68 U2 F2 D2 B2 R2 D B2 D' B2 D2 R' B2 F2 D B2 R' F' L D F U'
66. 18.67 U' R2 B2 U' L2 U' R2 D F2 L2 F R2 F' D' R2 B' L' B F2 L2
67. 17.58 R2 L2 U2 L2 U' F2 L2 U R2 D2 U' F L2 D' B L D2 U B2 R L' U'
68. 19.25 R2 L2 D F2 D' B2 D2 B2 R2 L2 D' R' B F' L' B R2 F' R' B
69. 17.20 L2 U F2 D2 F2 D' F2 U2 L2 F2 L2 B D U2 B U R' B L F R
70. 16.57 D' R2 F2 U2 B2 U F2 R2 B2 D2 L' B2 F D' B2 D2 R F' D2 B' U2// try this x-cross on yellow 
71. 20.12 D2 L2 D F2 U' B2 U' F2 R2 D' U' L U R L' F2 U' B' D' U' R2
72. 19.20 F2 L2 B2 L2 U B2 D L2 D2 F2 D2 B' L2 B2 U R' U' B R2 U2 F U2
73. 20.16 D2 R2 D R2 U' B2 U' B2 F2 D2 B2 R F' U2 R' B2 F U B' R U' R'
74. 18.99 D R2 L2 U2 R2 U' F2 U' R2 B U F2 L' F' D2 U' L' D' B'
75. 17.50 F2 D2 U' R2 U B2 R2 F2 R2 L2 D' B' R D L B' D2 B2 F2 R' D2
76. 19.40 U2 R2 F2 R2 B2 D B2 U L2 U' R' B' L D2 F L U' F U L U



Altough I was not doing very good today.. (Ao100 22.15 this morning) I just now had an Ao100 of 21.79 with these solves in it. I was really in the zone for a while..


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## Schmidt (Jun 2, 2014)

I seems that you break PB's so regularly that people stopped caring


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## MarcelP (Jun 2, 2014)

Schmidt said:


> I seems that you break PB's so regularly that people stopped caring



LOL.. I always wondered why they cared in the first place. I am still pretty excited about my improvement. I have not been able to cube since last PB. And I am too tired today. I hope it stays..


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## mark49152 (Jun 2, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> LOL.. I always wondered why they cared in the first place. I am still pretty excited about my improvement. I have not been able to cube since last PB. And I am too tired today. I hope it stays..


Dude I care  Looking at your PBs I'm a bit curious why there's such a gap between your ao12 and ao100. Yours is 2.7 sec, mine is 1.25 sec. I wonder why? What are other people's gaps?


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## Rocky0701 (Jun 3, 2014)

mark49152 said:


> Dude I care  Looking at your PBs I'm a bit curious why there's such a gap between your ao12 and ao100. Yours is 2.7 sec, mine is 1.25 sec. I wonder why? What are other people's gaps?


Mine is 1.59.


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## sneaklyfox (Jun 3, 2014)

Difference for me is 1.2. Mark, your difference is really small for your speed since the difference should be smaller the faster you are. Anyway, my guess is that Marcel might get tired doing long averages? I know sometimes I would be in the zone for a couple dozen solves but then I get tired. Or sometimes I'm just busy and have to do things in between solves. If a long time passes I have to warm up again...


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## DeeDubb (Jun 3, 2014)

mark49152 said:


> Dude I care  Looking at your PBs I'm a bit curious why there's such a gap between your ao12 and ao100. Yours is 2.7 sec, mine is 1.25 sec. I wonder why? What are other people's gaps?



Mine is 2.75. I think it's a combo of being in the zone for 12 solves, and having trouble maintaining during a whole ao100. Also, do you guys always do your ao100 in one session? I usually do, so it's possible I've had a better ao100 if I had done 50, taken a break, and done 50. I'm not sure though.


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## kcl (Jun 3, 2014)

uhh mine is .7 haha


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## MarcelP (Jun 3, 2014)

Yeah, my gap is big. My last PB of 18.66 was when I was really really in the zone. Strange thing is that I was doing it downstairs with my wife and kids talking to me and all. I think my PB's are a big factor of luck (I also need good scrambles with obvious crosses) and being in the zone. I simply can not stay in the zone for hundred solves. And DeeDubb, yeah I do most of my Ao100's in one sitting. If I am tired after 50 or so I just quit. Most of my good Ao100's I start being in the zone after 50 solves or so.


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## Artic (Jun 3, 2014)

Hi Marcel!

Joining this wonderful thread since misery loves company heheh...and I'm in the same boat trying to get sub 20. Gosh, it seems so hard for me. I'm currently averaging ~20.xx and I just can't seem to break that barrier. I know we're both going to get there some day, but right now it just seems so far away  

Oh, and I love your f2l. It's really smooth and controlled. It really is the hardest thing to understand and improve upon. I've watched a few of your videos and your f2l is awesome....hardly any pauses and rotations are limited as well. Mine is a bit sloppy, so I'm trying hard to improve.

Do you have a list of algorithms for your f2l? Or other resources I can study from? From your videos I can see you're doing things that I'm currently lacking, so even though you're slightly slower than me, I feel like I could learn a lot from you, especially in regards to f2l.

anyway, I'll be stopping by this thread more often and joining in! Here's to both of us finally cracking 20 seconds this year!


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## MarcelP (Jun 3, 2014)

Artic said:


> Oh, and I love your f2l. It's really smooth and controlled. It really is the hardest thing to understand and improve upon. I've watched a few of your videos and your f2l is awesome....hardly any pauses and rotations are limited as well. Mine is a bit sloppy, so I'm trying hard to improve.
> 
> Do you have a list of algorithms for your f2l? Or other resources I can study from? From your videos I can see you're doing things that I'm currently lacking, so even though you're slightly slower than me, I feel like I could learn a lot from you, especially in regards to f2l.



Geez, thanks. And Yes, as a matter of fact. Download my program here  and train the F2LE part. These are the ones I selected for the hard cases. Also learning Viktors expert F2L (here). I work a lot on these and that might cause my F2L be my best part.


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## h2f (Jun 3, 2014)

Artic said:


> Do you have a list of algorithms for your f2l? Or other resources I can study from? From your videos I can see you're doing things that I'm currently lacking, so even though you're slightly slower than me, I feel like I could learn a lot from you, especially in regards to f2l.



I think some of them (and maybe all) are in Marcel's Alg trainer. The link is in Marcel's signature. By the way, I use the trainer for few weeks and I think it's a great thing to improve my times. It is intresting to compare algs you use with mine.


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## MarcelP (Jun 3, 2014)

sneaklyfox said:


> Difference for me is 1.2. Mark, your difference is really small for your speed since the difference should be smaller the faster you are.



I agree, Mark your gap is really small. You should treasure that. It means you are very very stable. I can go from a 14 seconds solve to a 34 second solve. I really get inconsistent time from time. Although I feel it gets better I am not near as consitent as you. These days when I start to solve my first Ao12 (without warm up) is low 23.xx. After a while I start getting 21 and some 20.xx averages. And the two sub 20 Ao12 I have had still are freak accidents


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## MarcelP (Jun 3, 2014)

h2f said:


> I think some of them (and maybe all) are in Marcel's Alg trainer. The link is in Marcel's signature. By the way, I use the trainer for few weeks and I think it's a great thing to improve my times. It is intresting to compare algs you use with mine.



LOL, Ninja-ed. Nice to hear people are using my trainer and actually taking advantage of it.  Wow..


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## MarcelP (Jun 3, 2014)

sneaklyfox said:


> Ao12 = 13.48
> Ao50 = 14.03
> Ao100 = 14.68



Hey, I missed that post.. Sub 15 Ao100.. That is so awesome. Keep it up  I suspect you will continue your winning streak for a while.


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## Artic (Jun 3, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> Geez, thanks. And Yes, as a matter of fact. Download my program here  and train the F2LE part. These are the ones I selected for the hard cases. Also learning Viktors expert F2L (here). I work a lot on these and that might cause my F2L be my best part.



thanks! I downloaded it but I don't see any options to train only the F2L part. Am I missing something? Also, is it updated with your most recent f2l algs?


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## h2f (Jun 3, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> LOL, Ninja-ed. Nice to hear people are using my trainer and actually taking advantage of it.  Wow..



Oh yeah. I keep practice f2l part but I changed most of algs for mine and left only few I found better. I wait now for a progress time.



Artic said:


> thanks! I downloaded it but I don't see any options to train only the F2L part. Am I missing something? Also, is it updated with your most recent f2l algs?



In "file" you can change what part you train, and in options/magange settings what algs do you want - in default they are all. If you wanna setup your own algs you need to edit txt files for example f2l.txt etc.


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## MarcelP (Jun 3, 2014)

Artic said:


> thanks! I downloaded it but I don't see any options to train only the F2L part. Am I missing something? Also, is it updated with your most recent f2l algs?



Yeah, they should be there. And also with the most recent F2L algs. If you have OLL options and PLL option, then you should also have F2L and F2LE.


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## mark49152 (Jun 3, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> I agree, Mark your gap is really small. You should treasure that. It means you are very very stable. I can go from a 14 seconds solve to a 34 second solve.


Yeah my sessions will typically be 18-26 with the vast majority in the 20-24 range. Stdev of my last 1000 solves is 1.96.

BTW, feels like I'm at a serious plateau. I'm not sure how I will improve from here. I know what I should improve but it doesn't feel like I could.


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## MarcelP (Jun 3, 2014)

mark49152 said:


> BTW, feels like I'm at a serious plateau. I'm not sure how I will improve from here. I know what I should improve but it doesn't feel like I could.



Yeah, I know what you mean. But I think the main thing is just enjoy cubing. I have been at 26 secs for more than half a year. Last few months I have been improving a bit without changing any big things. I think for most of us, it just takes time to get faster.


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## mark49152 (Jun 3, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> Yeah, I know what you mean. But I think the main thing is just enjoy cubing. I have been at 26 secs for more than half a year. Last few months I have been improving a bit without changing any big things. I think for most of us, it just takes time to get faster.


Yeah I need a mission though, otherwise I get bored just solving over and over. Having had a moan this morning about lack of progress, I promptly went and smashed my F2L pairs PB. Ao50=9.66, my first sub-10, down from 10.05. Next target: sub-5 cross+1.


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## MarcelP (Jun 3, 2014)

mark49152 said:


> Having had a moan this morning about lack of progress, I promptly went and smashed my F2L pairs PB. Ao50=9.66, my first sub-10,



Nice one! I will try that also this week.


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## mark49152 (Jun 3, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> Nice one! I will try that also this week.


I carried on and did 300 pairs-only solves. Average 9.99 . Bao100=9.72, bao50=9.50, bao12=9.03.


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## Rocky0701 (Jun 3, 2014)

mark49152 said:


> I carried on and did 300 pairs-only solves. Average 9.99 . Bao100=9.72, bao50=9.50, bao12=9.03.


Wow, nice! That 9.99 is a win. I will do an ao100 sometime tomorrow and see whay i get. Right now i am working on full OLL, 36 left!


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## mark49152 (Jun 3, 2014)

Rocky0701 said:


> Wow, nice! That 9.99 is a win. I will do an ao100 sometime tomorrow and see whay i get. Right now i am working on full OLL, 36 left!


Dedicated F2L practice was what kick-started my good run of progress this year, dropping from 32 to 22 average in 6 months. So now that my improvement has tapered off, I'm back to blitzing F2L for a while, in the hope of finding that sub-20 breakthrough. In the last week I've done over 1000 pairs solves and there's no way my F2L would ever receive that kind of intense, concentrated practice by doing full solves. Targeted practice ftw!


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## Rocky0701 (Jun 4, 2014)

mark49152 said:


> Dedicated F2L practice was what kick-started my good run of progress this year, dropping from 32 to 22 average in 6 months. So now that my improvement has tapered off, I'm back to blitzing F2L for a while, in the hope of finding that sub-20 breakthrough. In the last week I've done over 1000 pairs solves and there's no way my F2L would ever receive that kind of intense, concentrated practice by doing full solves. Targeted practice ftw!


Awesome job, i will see what i get tomorrow. I am around .5 seconds away from you. Hopefully OLL will bump me up to sub 22.


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## mark49152 (Jun 4, 2014)

Rocky0701 said:


> Awesome job, i will see what i get tomorrow. I am around .5 seconds away from you. Hopefully OLL will bump me up to sub 22.


Yeah your improvement has been fast so you will pass me pretty quick. I'm guessing you're not an oldie


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## DeeDubb (Jun 4, 2014)

So, thanks for the recommendation Marcel. I did get the AoLong yesterday, and I've been working pretty hard with it. I did an Ao100, and then today, I tweaked it. I took out most of the lube and loosened it up a bunch, so it's still scratchy, but hardly bumpy at all. It did pop a couple of times, so that tells you how loose I have my tensions. (I know sneaklyfox always says it's impossibly to pop a WeiLong/AoLong, but it can happen if the tensions are loose enough). I guess even though I'm not that fast, I like my cube to be very fast and very dry. I broke my PB Ao100 by nearly a second, and I'm now sub 25.


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## Rocky0701 (Jun 4, 2014)

mark49152 said:


> Yeah your improvement has been fast so you will pass me pretty quick. I'm guessing you're not an oldie


Nope, I am a newbie, so I get more time during the summer to practice cubing


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## MarcelP (Jun 4, 2014)

DeeDubb said:


> So, thanks for the recommendation Marcel. I did get the AoLong yesterday, and I've been working pretty hard with it. I did an Ao100, and then today, I tweaked it. I took out most of the lube and loosened it up a bunch, so it's still scratchy, but hardly bumpy at all. It did pop a couple of times, so that tells you how loose I have my tensions. (I know sneaklyfox always says it's impossibly to pop a WeiLong/AoLong, but it can happen if the tensions are loose enough). I guess even though I'm not that fast, I like my cube to be very fast and very dry. I broke my PB Ao100 by nearly a second, and I'm now sub 25.


Congrats! Feliks also said he had a few pops. I have AolOng pretty tight. Else it is too fast. So I have never had a pop. But still I think Weilongs are harder to pop. It is easy to take a piece out on the AoLong where on a tight Weilong that is much harder.


----------



## Rocky0701 (Jun 4, 2014)

DeeDubb said:


> So, thanks for the recommendation Marcel. I did get the AoLong yesterday, and I've been working pretty hard with it. I did an Ao100, and then today, I tweaked it. I took out most of the lube and loosened it up a bunch, so it's still scratchy, but hardly bumpy at all. It did pop a couple of times, so that tells you how loose I have my tensions. (I know sneaklyfox always says it's impossibly to pop a WeiLong/AoLong, but it can happen if the tensions are loose enough). I guess even though I'm not that fast, I like my cube to be very fast and very dry. I broke my PB Ao100 by nearly a second, and I'm now sub 25.


You LOOSENED it? Holy crap, you must like loose tensions, mine was way too loose out of the box, I had to tighten it quite a bit. I had literally the exact same ao100 PB as you like a week and a half ago, you are improving a lot quicker than I am though, so you will probably be like sub 23 in about a week.


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## DeeDubb (Jun 4, 2014)

Rocky0701 said:


> You LOOSENED it? Holy crap, you must like loose tensions, mine was way too loose out of the box, I had to tighten it quite a bit. I had literally the exact same ao100 PB as you like a week and a half ago, you are improving a lot quicker than I am though, so you will probably be like sub 23 in about a week.



Actually, I'm not really sure how it was out of the box. I didn't play a lot with it before I took it apart and lubed the core. When I put it back together, it might have been too tight. Mine is very loose though now, probably much looser than out of the box. I really do like loose tensions, I'm not sure why. I think the cube is stable enough to handle pretty loose tensions, and I don't do a lot of wild moves that cause pops.

As for my Ao100... well, it looks like you are about 2 seconds ahead of me, so I don't think I'll be catching you any time soon. I think we've both been improving at a similar pace, with you just a bit ahead of me. I think you graduated sub-30 a couple weeks before me, and you'll probably finish sub-25 a bit before me. We'll see how it goes to sub-20, but I think you'll beat me.

It's so crazy. My original goal was just to always solve it in under a minute, and now I almost always solve it in under 30 seconds. I never thought I would sniff sub-20. It's great to be heading there though.


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## Rocky0701 (Jun 4, 2014)

DeeDubb said:


> Actually, I'm not really sure how it was out of the box. I didn't play a lot with it before I took it apart and lubed the core. When I put it back together, it might have been too tight. Mine is very loose though now, probably much looser than out of the box. I really do like loose tensions, I'm not sure why. I think the cube is stable enough to handle pretty loose tensions, and I don't do a lot of wild moves that cause pops.
> 
> As for my Ao100... well, it looks like you are about 2 seconds ahead of me, so I don't think I'll be catching you any time soon. I think we've both been improving at a similar pace, with you just a bit ahead of me. I think you graduated sub-30 a couple weeks before me, and you'll probably finish sub-25 a bit before me. We'll see how it goes to sub-20, but I think you'll beat me.
> 
> It's so crazy. My original goal was just to always solve it in under a minute, and now I almost always solve it in under 30 seconds. I never thought I would sniff sub-20. It's great to be heading there though.


I never thought i woukd be sub 30 either, sub 1 minute yes, and sub 45 maybe, but never here. The race to sub 25 thread is making me mad haha, I have been sub 25 for like 2 weeks now, but I keep messing up a solve or two during it, plus i don't ever do it warmed up because I'm like second faster when I am warmed up. You have only been cubing about half of the time that i have been, so i disagree, i definitely think you're improving faster.


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## MarcelP (Jun 4, 2014)

I think I broke my shoulder at judo today. Looks like no speedcubing on short term. Bah.


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## mark49152 (Jun 4, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> I think I broke my shoulder at judo today. Looks like no speedcubing on short term. Bah.


Bummer. OH?


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## MarcelP (Jun 4, 2014)

mark49152 said:


> Bummer. OH?



yep, just printed out my OH algs. I hate OH though..


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## mark49152 (Jun 4, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> yep, just printed out my OH algs. I hate OH though..


Yeah I hate OH too, but in times of desperation... . Which arm is hurt?


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## h2f (Jun 4, 2014)

OH or feet, maybe? Sorry to hear about your shoulder. 

I liked OH when I got a pinky move which was horrible for me.


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## sk8erman41 (Jun 4, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> I think I broke my shoulder at judo today. Looks like no speedcubing on short term. Bah.



Oh man that is a real bummer! Maybe you will learn to like OH. I am very fearful of this happening to me, I don't know what I would do if I wasn't able to cube!


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## DeeDubb (Jun 4, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> I think I broke my shoulder at judo today. Looks like no speedcubing on short term. Bah.



Wow! That's no good. Did you get tossed awkwardly?


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## Rocky0701 (Jun 4, 2014)

h2f said:


> OH or feet, maybe? Sorry to hear about your shoulder.
> 
> I liked OH when I got a pinky move which was horrible for me.


What's a pinky move?



sk8erman41 said:


> Oh man that is a real bummer! Maybe you will learn to like OH. I am very fearful of this happening to me, I don't know what I would do if I wasn't able to cube!


You would go on a rage and blow up a gas station or something. That's probably what I would do anyway 



MarcelP said:


> yep, just printed out my OH algs. I hate OH though..


I bet it will kinda help your 2H though.


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## h2f (Jun 5, 2014)

Rocky0701 said:


> What's a pinky move?



I guess I used not a proper English name, correct me if I did. I meant doing R' with your little finger. I found it very hard to do untill one day I did it.


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## MarcelP (Jun 5, 2014)

mark49152 said:


> I carried on and did 300 pairs-only solves. Average 9.99 . Bao100=9.72, bao50=9.50, bao12=9.03.


Well Mark, before I crashed my shoulder yesterday I did 100 F2L pairs (in PPT). I was sub 10 for most of the part, but then I lost my cool (or interrest) and ended up 10.24. My best Ao12 was 9.39. Had a few 7's in a row. Dedicated F2L training is really good. Kuddos on your progress. I think your F2L is better than mine now. In fact, are all your parts faster than mine now? It is just a matter of days before you throw an Ao100 sub 20 I think 



DeeDubb said:


> Wow! That's no good. Did you get tossed awkwardly?



Yeah, I landed after flewing a few meters with my full weight (I am over 240 Lbs) on my shoulder. I heard a dry 'knack' sound and got dizzy from pain. I did not sleep this night. I have an appointment to check it out in a few hours. OH cubing is picking up again.. LOL


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## mark49152 (Jun 5, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> Well Mark, before I crashed my shoulder yesterday I did 100 F2L pairs (in PPT). I was sub 10 for most of the part, but then I lost my cool (or interrest) and ended up 10.24. My best Ao12 was 9.39. Had a few 7's in a row. Dedicated F2L training is really good. Kuddos on your progress. I think your F2L is better than mine now. In fact, are all your parts faster than mine now? It is just a matter of days before you throw an Ao100 sub 20 I think


No, you're still a couple of seconds ahead of me and a little faster on each step. Maybe my PLL is a tiny bit faster. And I can't keep up with your rate of practice 

Yesterday I got carried away and did over 500 pairs, average 10.07. I was disappointed not to improve during the day, but at least it was consistent and a little faster than a few days ago when I was averaging ~10.3-4. Lots more 8-9s when lookahead works, plus lots of 10-11s when it doesn't. Today my hands are stiff 

Good luck with your shoulder.


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## sneaklyfox (Jun 5, 2014)

Sorry to hear you broke your shoulder. 

I learned OH because I didn't want to stop cubing when I was nursing my baby. The pinky move was really hard at first but after practicing a lot it becomes easy. It was also easier at first to use a smaller cube but now I can use a normal sized cube ok too. My first OH solves took me like 2 minutes...

Oh yeah, I practiced a lot of
RUR'U' (x6)
RU'RU (x5)
RU'R'U' (x5)


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## MarcelP (Jun 5, 2014)

mark49152 said:


> Good luck with your shoulder.



Well it's not broken. It seems that some mussles have torn. Any ways, I am heavily sedated with painkillers and I can cube now. In fact I just did Ao50 

F2L pairs:

Mean: 9.33
Average: 9.34
Best time: 7.20
Median: 9.34
Worst time: 11.40
Standard deviation: 0.95

Since that is quite faster than yours I suspect I am not doing it right. I filmed a few. Do you also do it like this (with inspecting and all):

(I know I do not need to solve OLL and PLL between scrambles, but I do that all the time out of habit)



Spoiler



23. 9.23 R2 D2 F2 R2 D R2 L2 D R2 D2 F D2 B U R B2 D' U F' L D'
24. 8.98 D' F2 U' R2 B2 U' R2 U2 F2 L2 B2 L F' U2 F L' D L2 D L U'
25. 9.79 R2 L2 D2 R2 L2 D F2 R2 D2 U' F' D2 B U R' D2 F2 D' B R U'
26. 8.90 R2 B2 F2 L2 D' F2 L2 D R2 B' U B' R' B D' B' F2 U R



[video=youtube_share;W98mmriX81o]http://youtu.be/W98mmriX81o[/video]



sneaklyfox said:


> I learned OH because I didn't want to stop cubing when I was nursing my baby. The pinky move was really hard at first but after practicing a lot it becomes easy. It was also easier at first to use a smaller cube but now I can use a normal sized cube ok too. My first OH solves took me like 2 minutes...
> 
> Oh yeah, I practiced a lot of
> RUR'U' (x6)
> ...



I remember you telling about doing OH and not waiste time nursing LOL.. You are hard core  I will try these triggers you wrote down here for a while. I suck at OH.


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## mark49152 (Jun 5, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> Well it's not broken. It seems that some mussles have torn.


That's good news... or at least, less bad news.



MarcelP said:


> Since that is quite faster than yours I suspect I am not doing it right. I filmed a few. Do you also do it like this (with inspecting and all):


You're faster because you're faster . I use my phone as a timer and it gives F2L scrambles (KingEn timer). If there's a pair already solved I'll rescramble. I don't time inspection but rarely take more than a few seconds. I sometimes rotate first but never AUF. I start and stop the timer with one hand on the cube. If I completely wreck a solve, like putting a pair in wrong or wrecking the cross, I'll just abandon it and delete the time. If I get interrupted, like a phone call, I allow myself a couple of warm-up solves to get my flow back.


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## mark49152 (Jun 7, 2014)

Over the last few days I've been on dedicated F2L practice, doing about 1800 pairs solves and 300 blind crosses. Today I did my first timed full solves for 5 days, and instantly smashed almost a second off my ao12 PB - 19.59, my first sub-20 ao12! And first sub-19 ao5 too! Unfortunately I got nervous and the rest of the session went downhill, but despite mostly 23-24s towards the end, I still scraped a new ao50 PB too, of 21.64. 

Sub-20 is definitely in sight now - if I had not got nervous I think I would have been really close today, at least 20.xx.


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## sneaklyfox (Jun 8, 2014)

mark49152 said:


> Over the last few days I've been on dedicated F2L practice, doing about 1800 pairs solves and 300 blind crosses. Today I did my first timed full solves for 5 days, and instantly smashed almost a second off my ao12 PB - 19.59, my first sub-20 ao12! And first sub-19 ao5 too! Unfortunately I got nervous and the rest of the session went downhill, but despite mostly 23-24s towards the end, I still scraped a new ao50 PB too, of 21.64.
> 
> Sub-20 is definitely in sight now - if I had not got nervous I think I would have been really close today, at least 20.xx.



Awesome, Mark! I'm so lazy compared to you guys. I ought to do real practice but most of the time I'm still mindlessly solving, sometimes forcing myself not to look at the pieces that are being solved.


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## mark49152 (Jun 8, 2014)

sneaklyfox said:


> Awesome, Mark! I'm so lazy compared to you guys. I ought to do real practice but most of the time I'm still mindlessly solving, sometimes forcing myself not to look at the pieces that are being solved.


Lazy? I'm in awe that you find time to cube at all, with 5 young kids! 

I did another ao100 late at night and regressed to 22.51. Tried a few pairs only solves and was getting 11-12 compared to 9.5 before. Lookahead has gone. So it's back to F2L practice until I can make it stick.


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## MarcelP (Jun 8, 2014)

Nice PB Mark! At least now you have a normal gap between Ao100 and Ao12..lol I am on a small family vacation. So no practise. I can relate to gwtting a PB and then it all goes downhill from there. It is all a matter of focus and lookahead. And these are the first two things that go away.


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## mark49152 (Jun 8, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> At least now you have a normal gap between Ao100 and Ao12


I wonder if it's my approach of developing technique through targeted practice that makes me a consistent solver. Looking back over my solve history, there's rarely more than 1-2 secs between ao12 and ao50 (more when I was slower, of course). That session yesterday had the biggest gap since April.


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## MarcelP (Jun 8, 2014)

mark49152 said:


> I wonder if it's my approach of developing technique through targeted practice that makes me a consistent solver. .



Did you use the new AoLong on your PB?


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## mark49152 (Jun 8, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> Did you use the new AoLong on your PB?


No, my SR2, which has been my main for almost a year. Every PB has been on that cube. I very rarely use any other cube.


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## newtonbase (Jun 8, 2014)

Just done the Race to Sub 30 and I've regressed by about a month. I'm back at 48s. I really need to find some time to practise properly or at least practise more efficiently.


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## MarcelP (Jun 9, 2014)

mark49152 said:


> No, my SR2, which has been my main for almost a year. Every PB has been on that cube. I very rarely use any other cube.



LOL, imagion if you have used a good cube all that time.  LOL. Nah, SR2 is pretty decent. Except the cornertwists. How do you like the AoLong so far? Another piece of paper weight? 

How long did it take you to do the 1000 F2L? Although I committed to do mostly LL training I might want to have a go at that when my shoulder gets better. It's is getting worse last two days so maybe healing has begun 


newtonbase said:


> Just done the Race to Sub 30 and I've regressed by about a month. I'm back at 48s. I really need to find some time to practise properly or at least practise more efficiently.


Wow, big difference 30 - > 48. Hang in there and you will be back at your normal level soon.


----------



## newtonbase (Jun 9, 2014)

I've never been close to 30s. I only do the race to focus.


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## mark49152 (Jun 9, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> LOL, imagion if you have used a good cube all that time.  LOL. Nah, SR2 is pretty decent. Except the cornertwists. How do you like the AoLong so far? Another piece of paper weight?


I've been using it for PLL drills to try to break it in a bit. I need to find time to lube and tension it. It certainly has potential to compete with my SR2. 

Btw, I never have corner twists, but I have it pretty tight.



MarcelP said:


> How long did it take you to do the 1000 F2L? Although I committed to do mostly LL training I might want to have a go at that when my shoulder gets better. It's is getting worse last two days so maybe healing has begun


That's a bummer about the shoulder. Can you do any cubing at all?

I did 1800 over about 2 weeks - usually 100-200 per day, with a couple of crazy days where I did 500 and 300.


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## MarcelP (Jun 9, 2014)

newtonbase said:


> I've never been close to 30s. I only do the race to focus.



Oh, sorry, my bad. I thought you where sub 30 (by fininishing the sub 30 race) and now fell back to 48  The good thing about being at 48 secs average is that by normal practice you can win a few seconds per week 


mark49152 said:


> I've been using it for PLL drills to try to break it in a bit. I need to find time to lube and tension it. It certainly has potential to compete with my SR2.
> 
> Btw, I never have corner twists, but I have it pretty tight.
> 
> ...



Although 2FL practice is about the best part to do I really do not like it. I prefer, cross + 1 or LL or complete solves. But if sub 20 does not come natural I might do also a few hundreds per day. Pretty sure that will work. In the last month I have been replacing some slow PLL's. And allready I can use the new ones in timed solves.

Jb :R U R' F'R U R' U' R' F R2 U' R' U' (my original was R U2 R' U' R U2 L' U R' U' L)
y: R2 U' R2' U' R2 U R' F R U R2 U' R' F R (Found by Brest, used it for a week and decided it was not for me, but going back to my old one sucked so I stayed with this cool one)
Ga: y R2 u R' U R' U' R u' r2 (y') R' U R (my original was R' U R' U' R' U' R' U R U R2)
Ub: M2 U' M' U2 M U' M2 (Much better than my original R L U2 R' L' (y') R' U L' U2 R U' L)




mark49152 said:


> usually 100-200 per day



I allready did Ao100 full solves before breakfast this morning.. I tried slow solving with perfect lookahead since my shoulder f# hurts. Not to shabby and pretty pleased with sub 23!



Spoiler



Mean: 22.93
Average: 22.91
Best time: 17.87
Median: 23.05
Worst time: 30.02
Standard deviation: 2.58

Best average of 5: 19.91
88-92 - 19.15 21.64 18.93 (23.10) (18.11)

Best average of 12: 21.20
88-99 - 19.15 21.64 18.93 23.10 (18.11) (25.45) 20.84 21.54 21.27 21.19 23.84 20.45

1. 23.05 D F2 U' R2 L2 U2 L2 F2 U B2 U B' R F' D' B' U' F R U L' D2
2. 23.90 U' R2 D2 B2 L2 D F2 D' R2 U R2 F' U2 B D2 B2 D L' U' R D U2
3. 21.79 L2 F2 R2 D' B2 D2 B2 U2 R2 F2 U2 B' R L' B' R' F2 D R U2 F
4. 22.75 U R2 U' F2 R2 U L2 U B2 F2 D L D' R2 F' U2 B D L U' L' B'
5. 24.21 F2 D2 U' F2 U B2 L2 D2 R2 F2 L2 F' R' D L D L2 U B2 L' F' U2
6. 24.35 D' F2 R2 U' L2 U R2 L2 U' F2 D2 B' U' R U B L' D B2
7. 21.13 L2 B2 D' F2 D F2 U R2 U2 R2 U2 R' D' B' L B2 L' U2 B' F D U2
8. 23.47 B2 D F2 L2 U2 L2 D2 U' F2 U L' D2 R D2 B D L2 B' R2 F U2
9. 26.07 L2 U2 F2 U R2 U L2 D' R2 D' L2 F' R' L' B U2 F2 R' B2 R U
10. 25.36 U R2 D' U2 F2 R2 U B2 L2 U L2 F' U2 B' U' R L' B2 D F2 R U'
11. 22.02 D' R2 D2 B2 R2 U' B2 D' L2 D' R2 F' U2 R L' B F2 D F' L' D B2
12. 23.04 F2 U F2 D' B2 U' L2 U R2 D' B2 R F2 R' L' D' F' R D2 L' U2
13. 21.58 U' F2 U2 R2 U' B2 R2 B2 F2 D' R B2 F2 U L D' B' U R2 F'
14. 19.42 B2 D B2 U' B2 D R2 B2 F2 D' L2 F R2 D' U2 L U' R B' D' B2 F2
15. 25.45 D' B2 D' L2 U' L2 U B2 D' L2 U' F' D' L2 D2 L' U F' R F L U'
16. 24.94 U2 F2 D2 U B2 U R2 B2 R2 L2 F' U' R U B R' D2 F' D L
17. 28.89 U R2 D' F2 D U2 B2 D R2 B2 U' R D2 F' R2 D2 B' F2 D' F' U
18. 24.40 U R2 U' R2 B2 U' R2 U' R2 F2 U L U' R F2 U F' L2 D R' F' U
19. 24.09 B2 F2 R2 F2 D B2 D2 L2 D' L2 D B F2 D2 U2 L U2 B' L2 F2 D2
20. 19.39 F2 U L2 U' F2 U F2 D2 F2 U' L' F D' B' F' R2 D' B2 R U2 L2
21. 21.66 L2 D2 F2 D B2 L2 D' B2 U' B2 U B' R U' L' D2 U2 B2 D F U
22. 25.44 D R2 U2 B2 R2 L2 U' L2 D' B2 L2 F D2 R2 D' B2 R2 U2 R D2 F' U2
23. 19.60 L2 D F2 U2 F2 L2 U2 L2 D2 L2 U' L' R2 B D2 R' F U' F2 D' F U2
24. 21.58 U B2 U' B2 R2 U2 B2 L2 F2 D B2 L' F D2 U B' U R' U' L' D
25. 22.49 D' L2 B2 D2 B2 D L2 B2 R2 L2 U L F2 U R' F U2 F2 R' D2 U L'
26. 23.93 F2 R2 B2 U R2 D' B2 R2 U F2 U' R B' U2 F' U' L U2 F L' D'
27. 22.32 B2 D' F2 L2 U2 L2 D' U2 F2 R2 U R' L2 F' R D L' F D' L2 D U'
28. 26.72 R2 L2 D R2 D B2 D' L2 U2 B2 U L' F' R' B' L D' F R' D R'
29. 22.73 D2 R2 F2 U R2 D' R2 B2 D2 B2 D2 B' L2 D R' L F U' L D R' D'
30. 19.13 R2 D' B2 D R2 D U F2 L2 U2 F' R2 L F D' U B D B' R' D'
31. 19.16 U L2 U' B2 D F2 L2 D2 B2 U2 F U B U2 B' D' R' B F D' R U'
32. 23.06 R2 L2 F2 D' L2 D2 R2 U R2 L2 U' F' D' R D' B' U L2 F' R' U L'
33. 20.93 B2 D L2 U F2 D2 B2 L2 D2 R2 D' B' R D F2 D R' L2 D U2 F' U'
34. 28.01 D' L2 U2 F2 D2 F2 R2 B2 U B2 L2 B' D F2 D' L B2 F D F2 L U2
35. 26.73 F2 D F2 R2 B2 F2 D' L2 D L2 U R B D R' D' R' D' R B2 U2
36. 24.92 D2 F2 U L2 D' F2 R2 F2 U2 L2 U L' U B' L' F2 R' D2 U R2 U'
37. 23.53 U' R2 U' B2 L2 B2 R2 F2 D2 R2 D L' F' D' B' F' D' L U B2 L2 U'
38. 18.85 B2 R2 U' F2 R2 D L2 D B2 D U B' L U' F' D B' F D F R L'
39. 23.15 R2 L2 U' L2 F2 D R2 D2 B2 U B2 R' F' D' B D' L D' B U' R2 L2
40. 20.54 D F2 R2 F2 D U' B2 U2 F2 U R2 F D U B' U' R B2 R2 D U L'
41. 24.35 U F2 L2 U R2 U' B2 L2 B2 F2 D L' D2 B2 D' U' B' R' U2 L2 B'
42. 24.20 D L2 F2 U' L2 B2 U2 L2 U' B2 D2 B D2 L' F' U' B' L2 F' U2 R' U'
43. 20.48 R2 D' F2 R2 L2 U' B2 D2 B2 R2 F B2 R L' B' L U2 F' D U2
44. 21.87 F2 U R2 D L2 U2 B2 U' L2 F2 U2 R F2 D U' R' D2 F' U B' F'
45. 17.96 R2 D' B2 D R2 B2 D2 R2 B2 U2 R2 B R2 F U2 L' D U' B F2 R D
46. 22.08 F2 U2 F2 L2 D F2 D F2 U F2 U2 B U' L2 B' R' U' L' F' D R U2
47. 26.94 U L2 U R2 D B2 D U F' U F2 D2 R' B' R2 L D U' R'
48. 24.16 F2 R2 L2 D L2 F2 R2 B2 D2 B2 D R' F2 U L2 D B2 R U' B' F' U'
49. 19.66 D2 B2 D F2 D' L2 D R2 B2 D' U' F U' R' L2 D B' R D2 B F2 U'
50. 21.54 R2 L2 U2 R2 B2 R2 D L2 U R2 U2 R U' L2 F R' F2 R2 D' L2 F' U'
51. 21.81 D R2 L2 F2 U' L2 D L2 D2 F2 U B' D' L2 D L F' D' F2 R' U2
52. 22.45 U R2 U' B2 F2 L2 D' F2 U2 R2 D L' B R' U2 B2 U F2 U
53. 18.14 U' F2 D' L2 U2 L2 B2 U' B2 F2 U2 L' B' D' U' F2 R2 F U2 R2 U'
54. 22.22 B2 R2 B2 U' L2 D2 F2 U2 L2 U B2 R B U B2 F2 U' R' B D2 U
55. 19.52 B2 U B2 D' B2 U2 L2 U2 F2 L2 D' R L' B' F D' L2 F L' D2 F L2
56. 25.84 F2 D2 L2 B2 D' R2 U' B2 F2 U R2 F' R2 D L' U R B R' B2 R' U
57. 27.61 R2 F2 D R2 D U2 B2 F2 L2 D L' B R B' R2 U' B D' F U2 L2 U2
58. 26.14 R2 D R2 U' F2 U' R2 B2 F2 L2 U2 B' L2 F R D' L D B' F2 D
59. 26.27 F2 U' L2 D R2 U' B2 U' R2 D2 B2 L U L U B' R F U' L B' D
60. 24.06 R2 F2 R2 F2 D' F2 D' B2 D' B2 U2 B R2 U' L' U' R' L F' R L D
61. 24.14 D' B2 L2 U' B2 D' B2 L2 D' L2 D2 B R U2 B2 R' B' L' U L2 F U2
62. 23.52 D B2 U B2 U L2 B2 D2 L2 D2 R2 F' D' R D2 F2 U F2 L U2 F'
63. 20.12 L2 D B2 F2 L2 B2 D' U' L2 U B' L' B D' R U B' U2 F' L2 D'
64. 23.84 F2 U B2 D2 B2 U' F2 L2 U' F R' B2 L' B U B' L D2 F L'
65. 22.48 L2 U F2 R2 D F2 D2 F2 D L2 U' R' L' F U' F' D U2 B' R L
66. 24.01 D' U2 B2 D U2 L2 D' L2 B2 R2 U2 F' D2 U' B R' F' R2 D' R' D2 U
67. 25.49 U L2 F2 D2 F2 U2 R2 U' L2 B2 R2 B' L D2 B U2 R2 D2 B2 R2 D'
68. 19.74 F2 L2 D F2 D L2 U' L2 U L2 U2 B D' B' D2 R B' F2 D R B D2
69. 21.45 R2 D' F2 U2 F2 U B2 L2 F2 L2 B' R2 D R L B D F' R2 D2
70. 17.87 R2 U' L2 F2 R2 D2 R2 D L2 D U' L' U B' R D2 F L B2 L2 B'
71. 23.76 U L2 D2 F2 U' B2 R2 L2 U' R2 U2 R L2 U2 F U B' D B' F' D
72. 24.09 F2 U R2 F2 D' U' L2 D' R2 B2 U2 R' U' L' U2 B2 F2 L F R2 D2
73. 27.91 B2 D L2 F2 D2 U' L2 U2 F2 D' U2 F' D' R D' B' U' B F' D R2
74. 24.01 U2 F2 L2 D L2 U B2 L2 U' L2 F2 R' F D U' B2 R' F U2 F U2
75. 22.49 U2 B2 L2 U' R2 B2 D L2 U2 B2 U L U F D2 L2 U B' F D U
76. 25.37 B2 F2 R2 D B2 D2 B2 D R2 B2 D' B L F2 D' F2 U' B U2 L' D'
77. 18.79 D' B2 L2 F2 L2 F2 L2 D B2 R2 D F R' L F' D' R2 D' B2 L2 B2
78. 25.58 L2 U2 B2 U L2 D' F2 L2 D2 U' F2 L B L' B R B' R2 U' B' R' U'
79. 30.02 R2 U F2 D2 R2 D' B2 U F2 U B2 R' B L' F U' F U' F' L'
80. 27.61 L2 D U R2 U B2 U' F2 L2 B2 F2 L D2 L' U' B' F L' D' L2 D U'
81. 23.38 R2 D2 L2 B2 D' B2 U2 L2 B2 D' F2 R D2 L' D2 L' F U R B D L'
82. 24.14 F2 U2 B2 R2 B2 U2 L2 D B2 D L D F2 D' U' B2 R' B R U'
83. 22.17 D' F2 U' B2 D U' B2 F2 L2 U' L2 F' D2 R' B' F2 L' F2 U2 B' R2
84. 22.29 D B2 R2 U B2 U B2 U B2 L2 U2 F' D' R B F' D' R2 B' U2 B U
85. 23.58 R2 D R2 B2 D R2 U' F2 U2 R2 D2 R L2 F R' D2 R' B2 R2 L2 D'
86. 22.63 R2 L2 D' B2 D B2 R2 D' R2 F2 D2 B' U2 R U R2 U2 F D' F R' F'
87. 22.51 B2 D F2 R2 F2 U R2 D R2 B2 U2 B' L D L F' D2 B2 L2 U L' D2
88. 19.15 F2 U F2 D2 R2 U' B2 L2 U F2 R2 B L B' L2 U' B' L' D2 U R2
89. 21.64 L2 U' F2 L2 D R2 D B2 R2 U' B2 R' F2 U' F' D2 F' U B' L2
90. 18.93 R2 F2 L2 B2 U' L2 D2 B2 U F2 D L D U2 L U2 L2 F R' L D'
91. 23.10 D2 B2 U R2 U2 B2 R2 D B2 R2 F2 R' F U2 L2 F' R B2 R D F2 L'
92. 18.11 D' U2 L2 D L2 B2 L2 D2 L2 D' L2 B L2 B' L2 U B' D' R' D' U
93. 25.45 R2 D' B2 D2 B2 U R2 F2 D R2 U2 B' F L' B' U2 R B2 F' R' U2
94. 20.84 B2 L2 D2 F2 U F2 U2 L2 U' L2 U' R L2 B R2 B2 R U2 F' D' B L'
95. 21.54 D2 R2 D B2 U' L2 F2 D R2 U2 B2 L F D' U' R D' L' U F L F
96. 21.27 D' R2 D' R2 U L2 D2 R2 F2 D' R2 F R' B2 D' U2 L' D U' B' L
97. 21.19 R2 D2 B2 D F2 L2 D2 F2 D B2 D' B' F2 L' D' R F' L' B D' L' U2
98. 23.84 R2 B2 D' U' L2 F2 D L2 B2 L2 U B R' F2 D' L U' L F' L' B2
99. 20.45 B2 L2 U B2 D' R2 U' B2 R' B' F' R U B U' L D2 B
100. 23.34 F2 U' R2 L2 B2 U2 L2 D F2 L2 F D' L' D2 R' D F U2 R' L2


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## mark49152 (Jun 9, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> Jb :R U R' F'R U R' U' R' F R2 U' R' U' (my original was R U2 R' U' R U2 L' U R' U' L)
> y: R2 U' R2' U' R2 U R' F R U R2 U' R' F R (Found by Brest, used it for a week and decided it was not for me, but going back to my old one sucked so I stayed with this cool one)
> Ga: y R2 u R' U R' U' R u' r2 (y') R' U R (my original was R' U R' U' R' U' R' U R U R2)
> Ub: M2 U' M' U2 M U' M2 (Much better than my original R L U2 R' L' (y') R' U L' U2 R U' L)


That Jb is one of my fastest and favourite algs.

I use this Y: F [R' F R2 U' R' U' R U R' F'] R U R' U' F' [16]
Fingering for this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R52VOcrphwI 
Note the J/T-permish section in the middle.

Although the Ua mirror is easy, I find that Ub hard because of the U' moves (I do M slices with left). If you're also an M leftie, try this instead: M2 u M' u2 M' u M2


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## TDM (Jun 9, 2014)

mark49152 said:


> R' F R2 U' R' U' R U R' F' R U R' U'


Nice alg for BLD, I might learn that.


> I find that Ub hard because of the U' moves (I do M slices with left)


Interesting... I do M slices with my right hand, but M2 U M U2 M' U M2 is my fastest PLL. It's also one of my favourite algs, after M' U M U2 M' U M, which has similar fingertricks.


----------



## MarcelP (Jun 9, 2014)

mark49152 said:


> That Jb is one of my fastest and favourite algs.
> 
> I use this Y: F [R' F R2 U' R' U' R U R' F'] R U R' U' F' [16]
> Fingering for this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R52VOcrphwI
> ...


Thanks, I will check it out right away..



TDM said:


> Interesting... I do M slices with my right hand, but M2 U M U2 M' U M2 is my fastest PLL. It's also one of my favourite algs, after M' U M U2 M' U M, which has similar fingertricks.



Me too, M' with right hand.  I used to hate M but I seem to get pretty fast with it. I have H, Z, Ub and several OLL's with M now.

I just did my afternoon Ao100. From solve 55 I was in the zone. I had my third (ever) sub 20 Ao12  Jay!



Spoiler



Mean: 21.89
Average: 21.88
Best time: 15.65
Median: 21.96
Worst time: 28.77
Standard deviation: 2.68

Best average of 5: 18.35
55-59 - 19.29 (15.65) 16.53 19.22 (22.67)

Best average of 12: 19.78
64-75 - (18.11) 20.00 18.54 19.47 18.19 (21.97) 20.90 20.72 19.84 21.07 20.66 18.37

1. 23.34 F2 U' R2 L2 B2 U2 L2 D F2 L2 F D' L' D2 R' D F U2 R' L2
2. 22.62 B2 R2 B2 U' B2 L2 U2 B2 D' L2 B U2 R2 B2 U' L' U' R F2 L B' U'
3. 23.68 D2 L2 D' B2 D F2 U' R2 U2 R2 D2 R' D F' D' R L B L2 F2 D2 U'
4. 22.35 D2 F2 L2 D' U2 F2 U2 R2 D' F2 L B2 U' B R2 D' L F R' F
5. 22.88 R2 D' F2 D' L2 B2 U2 L2 U L2 F' R2 B R2 F2 D' L B2 R' D U
6. 21.21 U' B2 U' R2 D' F2 U B2 F2 D2 B2 R' U2 B D' F R U' F2 D2 B' U'
7. 21.87 R2 B2 D2 B2 D' F2 R2 F2 L2 D' R2 B' U' R F' L F2 U' L B' L2 U
8. 20.68 R2 U B2 F2 D' B2 D U L2 D' R2 B D2 B2 R' D' L2 B' R' U2 L2 U'
9. 20.05 B2 D2 B2 R2 U2 F2 R2 U B2 U B' F2 D R2 U B' U' L' D' L'
10. 26.25 R2 F2 R2 D U2 R2 D U2 F2 D L' F R' D F' U' L' B' L D2 B2 R'
11. 23.62 B2 U R2 B2 D B2 L2 U2 F2 L2 F U2 L U' B R2 U F R L' U'
12. 21.95 D' U2 F2 U L2 F2 R2 B2 U' F2 U R' U' B2 U' L B L' F' L2 B'
13. 23.09 D' L2 U B2 R2 U2 F2 U' B2 U2 F L' B L2 B U' L B' F' U' R
14. 28.77 R2 U2 R2 U' L2 F2 U L2 U L2 F' L' B2 U R2 B F' U2 R' U'
15. 27.60 D' R2 D2 B2 F2 R2 U R2 U' L2 D' F' R' U B2 U' L D L F2 D2 L2
16. 22.38 F2 D' L2 D R2 D2 F2 L2 U2 F2 U F R F2 R L2 D2 R' U B U L'
17. 22.51 B2 D' B2 D U2 F2 D F2 U' B' R' B2 D2 L' D' U2 F' R2 U'
18. 26.41 R2 B2 D' L2 F2 D2 U F2 R2 L2 D B U R' F' L B' R' U2 R' L2
19. 23.42 U2 R2 D2 L2 D B2 D B2 R2 F2 U2 F L' F2 R' U' B2 F' R' B2 L' D'
20. 21.71 R2 D F2 U2 R2 D2 R2 B2 U R2 F U' R2 L' D2 L D' R' L2 D U'
21. 22.99 D' L2 D' R2 B2 D' B2 F2 D F2 D L' B F D' L2 D' R2 L2 B2 L' D'
22. 19.04 U2 F2 U L2 U' R2 D' R2 U2 L2 U L U2 B U R' F' U' R2 U' R' U'
23. 22.21 B2 U B2 U R2 D' U2 F2 L2 U' R2 B D2 B' R U' B' R2 D2 F' L'
24. 26.46 R2 D U R2 D F2 R2 L2 F2 U2 R2 B' D' B2 L D' U' L U B2 R
25. 23.15 B2 F2 D' R2 U B2 D' R2 L2 U' B2 R' F2 U2 L' D' F' L' B' U' L2 U2
26. 23.41 U2 B2 R2 D B2 U B2 U2 R2 U F2 L' B2 F L' U2 R2 B' U' F D'
27. 27.81 B2 U2 B2 L2 U R2 B2 F2 U2 L2 F2 R' D' L F' D2 F R B D2 F'
28. 19.42 L2 B2 D' F2 L2 B2 U2 B2 D F2 U2 L U B U R2 U2 B2 U R2
29. 21.15 U L2 D2 U' F2 D F2 U' B2 R2 U' B F2 R B2 U F L B2 U2 L2
30. 19.09 B2 L2 D2 L2 U' L2 B2 D F2 U' L2 F R' L' U2 R' D2 U' L' F2 L
31. 22.13 L2 D2 L2 B2 L2 U F2 L2 D' F2 D' F U2 R' D F' R2 L D' R F2 D'
32. 22.25 U L2 B2 F2 U B2 U L2 D2 B2 U' R' B L B2 F L' U R F' R U'
33. 26.49 L2 U2 F2 L2 B2 D B2 F2 R2 D' U2 R' D2 L F R' B2 F2 R2 D' B2
34. 20.27 L2 D U2 L2 U B2 U' L2 F2 R' B' F' L U B2 D' L' B2 R2
35. 18.19 U' R2 U F2 U' F2 R2 B2 U2 L2 U2 R' L2 U F R' F2 L' D' R2 U'
36. 23.60 B2 U L2 B2 D2 L2 F2 D' F2 D2 U' L' D' R U B' R' D2 R F' L
37. 19.87 D B2 U2 R2 D R2 L2 F2 L2 U' R' D2 U2 R U' F L D' B'
38. 19.25 U' R2 U F2 L2 D F2 D B2 R2 U2 L F R' F D2 F2 R2 D' F D'
39. 21.01 D L2 D' L2 U R2 F2 U2 R2 L2 B L U' L2 D2 B' F U2 L D' R2
40. 26.35 F2 R2 U B2 U B2 D' F2 R2 B2 R2 F' D' L B D' B' L2 B' U' R
41. 21.68 D R2 U R2 L2 D2 R2 D' L2 U F2 R' B' R U B2 D2 F' R L B2
42. 20.12 B2 L2 D' R2 B2 R2 F2 L2 U B2 U' R B R' L' B U B D2 B F' U'
43. 18.40 R2 D F2 U L2 U' L2 U2 B2 U2 R' U F' U2 L2 F' D2 F2 L U'
44. 25.76 U' B2 D F2 D' R2 D R2 U2 B2 R2 F B2 L B U' B F U F2 R2 U2
45. 23.58 U' R2 B2 R2 D2 L2 U' R2 F2 D2 L2 F' U' B R2 L' B2 F U L2 U'
46. 18.40 R2 U' F2 D U2 F2 R2 U L2 F2 U' R' D' B' F2 D' L2 B' D R2 L2 U'
47. 20.91 U2 B2 U' L2 U2 F2 U2 B2 R2 U' R F2 R' B' F2 R2 F' U R2 L
48. 20.93 U2 B2 U' R2 D' L2 B2 L2 D R2 U' B' R B' D' B' L' B' D2 B' U
49. 22.35 U L2 U2 L2 F2 U' F2 L2 U L2 U' B' U2 R' D2 U F2 L2 B' L U2
50. 19.53 F2 D2 L2 U' B2 D2 F2 D' F2 R2 U L' F' D R U R2 F R2 B2 L2
51. 23.04 U R2 U F2 D R2 D L2 D2 F' R L D' U2 R B F' R
52. 23.72 R2 U' L2 D' U' F2 L2 U' L2 U2 F2 L' U B F R U2 R L2 B2 L' U'
53. 23.01 L2 B2 D' F2 L2 D U2 F2 U L2 U2 L' U2 F D' L' B' U2 R B L2
54. 23.95 U L2 U F2 L2 D' B2 F2 U' L2 U' R' D' F' U B' R L D' F' L2 U
55. 19.29 B2 R2 D2 F2 L2 U B2 L2 U B2 D B' F2 U L' D' L' B2 F U2 L
56. 15.65 F2 D' U' R2 B2 D R2 U' L2 F2 L' B' L' F' D' L' B' D' R2 L2 U'
57. 16.53 R2 D' R2 U' L2 F2 U R2 U B2 L2 B D L' D' U' R' F2 L2 B' F2 U'
58. 19.22 F2 R2 D' F2 D' B2 D' F2 L2 F2 U' B D' L F' U' B' L D2 F' R U2
59. 22.67 F2 D' F2 U2 B2 R2 B2 L2 D' B2 U2 F U R' B R L' B L2 F L
60. 22.96 U' L2 U B2 U' F2 D' L2 B2 U' L2 B U2 F U' F D' L F2 U' R2 L'
61. 25.18 L2 D' B2 F2 U' R2 B2 D' L2 U' R L U' B' D2 R U L D L' U'
62. 23.36 L2 F2 D U L2 B2 R2 B2 D' U2 L' D' F L B' R' F2 D R F2 L2 U'
63. 20.29 B2 L2 B2 D B2 D' U2 R2 B2 D U B U' B2 U F' D L' F' D B' R
64. 18.11 F2 L2 B2 D' R2 D' U2 F2 U' R2 B' U2 F' D' R' F U' B' R D' F
65. 20.00 U' L2 F2 R2 U' F2 D' U' R2 U' R2 F D' U2 R D R D2 B2 L' D
66. 18.54 U L2 B2 D' F2 L2 U F2 U2 B2 U2 L D' R' D B U' F' R2 B' R U2
67. 19.47 U L2 B2 U L2 D2 B2 U' R2 L2 U R U' L2 B' U' L' D B F' D' U'
68. 18.19 R2 D' R2 F2 U2 R2 U' R2 U R2 D F' D' F' L F L2 D B L' D' U'
69. 21.97 B2 U2 F2 U2 F2 D R2 F2 D' L2 U' L' B' U2 B D2 L' U' L U
70. 20.90 R2 D R2 B2 U B2 U F2 R2 U R' U2 R F' R L2 B' D2 F2 L D
71. 20.72 D2 R2 L2 B2 D U2 R2 U2 B2 L2 B' L F2 D2 U R' D2 L D U'
72. 19.84 U' B2 U' L2 D2 F2 U' R2 U2 F2 R2 F U' B2 D' B D F R2 U' L'
73. 21.07 B2 U F2 U2 F2 U' F2 D' R2 B2 L F D2 F R2 D F2 L' D' U'
74. 20.66 U' B2 F2 U' L2 F2 D' B2 U L2 F2 L B' R L2 D' U2 L2 D2 F' L
75. 18.37 F2 U' R2 U2 B2 D R2 U' L2 F2 R2 F U' R D2 B F' D U' R' U L2
76. 21.49 D2 L2 U' R2 U' F2 L2 D B2 L2 U2 B' F' L' U' F D' U' L B D'
77. 20.66 B2 D L2 D B2 U2 B2 L2 D F2 U' F L B2 F2 D2 R2 U' L B2 F2 U'
78. 19.98 B2 U B2 D F2 U' R2 D' L2 F2 U L F R F D' B' R U' B2 D'
79. 22.62 D R2 B2 U2 L2 F2 U' B2 F2 D2 R2 B' R' F' U' L D' L' F' R' L D2
80. 22.32 B2 R2 L2 U' B2 D2 F2 D U2 R2 U F' U B2 R2 L F2 L' D2 U' R2
81. 22.68 L2 B2 R2 D R2 D' L2 D' F2 D L' B2 U' F U L2 U2 L2 D' L B2 U'
82. 16.21 B2 D2 L2 F2 U F2 U2 B2 L2 U' F2 R B' U2 R' D' B R L2 F' U
83. 27.07 U' F2 U2 B2 R2 L2 U' B2 L2 F2 D F' D' B R' B' L2 U' F2 L' B
84. 26.64 U2 R2 F2 U L2 D' R2 U R2 B2 U2 R F' D L' F U B2 U' F2 U L2
85. 25.01 D F2 U' B2 D F2 D B2 D2 F2 L D U F' D' R B' L2 U2 B2
86. 23.61 R2 D2 L2 D L2 F2 U R2 U' L2 D' F D' R L2 U F2 R' L2 U L
87. 24.27 U' F2 L2 D' B2 D L2 B2 D2 L2 U' F' R B2 U L' B' F R' U2 L D'
88. 21.42 L2 U' B2 F2 R2 D U R2 U F2 U R D L' B R L F R D L U'
89. 18.97 D R2 D' B2 F2 D F2 R2 B2 D U' L' B U2 L2 B D' L' D R2 D2
90. 20.89 F2 U R2 D2 B2 R2 B2 L2 D B2 D2 L B' R' U2 L F D' L F' L
91. 18.96 L2 U' R2 B2 U' F2 U2 R2 B2 F2 U' B R U R2 F' R' B U' F R' D
92. 25.20 B2 D L2 F2 L2 B2 D L2 B2 U' R2 B D R U L D R2 B' U2 B'
93. 22.49 B2 D U L2 D F2 D' U2 B2 F2 U' F' R D F R' U2 F L' D' F D
94. 18.75 D B2 U F2 D2 B2 D R2 D' B2 U B' D R U' R F' R L B2 U'
95. 18.22 D2 L2 D' L2 U' F2 U' R2 U' R2 D2 R' F D R F R' U' B' U' R' D
96. 18.29 D2 L2 U' L2 B2 D B2 F2 R2 D F R F R D2 B F' U' B U'
97. 25.98 D2 B2 D' L2 B2 U B2 D2 U' B2 U R D' F' R' L U' L2 D2 F2 L D
98. 22.51 L2 D2 F2 D2 U' B2 L2 F2 R2 D U' F D' L' D' U' R B' D' B2 U
99. 23.53 B2 R2 L2 D2 B2 L2 B2 U' B2 D2 U2 R F2 D B' R' B' L' B2 U L F'
100. 21.87 D2 L2 U R2 B2 D2 B2 D' R2 F2 R D B F D2 R2 L2 D' F' D


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## Logiqx (Jun 9, 2014)

It's great to see everyone improving... although slightly frustrating. I'm trying to catch up with the over-40 benchmarks but they keep getting faster! 

I just did an Ao50 (lunchtime) and got my first sub-23 Ao50. After 20 solves it was comfortably sub-22 but when I saw that number, I screwed up my next dozen solves before regaining my composure!

Sitting in my car often seems to result in good times... a warmed up cube turns really well (left in the car all morning) and natural light helps my recognition.


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## DeeDubb (Jun 9, 2014)

Logiqx said:


> It's great to see everyone improving... although slightly frustrating. I'm trying to catch up with the over-40 benchmarks but they keep getting faster!
> 
> I just did an Ao50 (lunchtime) and got my first sub-23 Ao50. After 20 solves it was comfortably sub-22 but when I saw that number, I screwed up my next dozen solves before regaining my composure!
> 
> Sitting in my car often seems to result in good times... a warmed up cube turns really well (left in the car all morning) and natural light helps my recognition.



We have pretty similar times. Let's race to Sub-20


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## Logiqx (Jun 9, 2014)

DeeDubb said:


> We have pretty similar times. Let's race to Sub-20



The last person to mention similar times was Rocky0701 and he has gotten a lot faster since that comment! You seem to be improving pretty fast as well so I've no doubt you'll beat me to sub-20.

I've started doing the race to sub-20 thread with the intention that it will force me to focus. I doubt I'll be sub-20 this year (practice is too eratic) but I hope to get there eventually!


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## MarcelP (Jun 9, 2014)

Logiqx said:


> I just did an Ao50 (lunchtime) and got my first sub-23 Ao50. After 20 solves it was comfortably sub-22 but when I saw that number, I screwed up my next dozen solves before regaining my composure!



LOL, I know the scare of good times.. I would not cube in my car at the moment. It is so hot in The Netherlands now..


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## Logiqx (Jun 9, 2014)

It's pretty hot over here as well. Even with my door open, windows down and the slight breeze it was still roasting.

Fortunately my Weilong stickers didn't start peeling or chipping in the heat.


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## MarcelP (Jun 9, 2014)

Logiqx said:


> Fortunately my Weilong stickers didn't start peeling or chipping in the heat.



I was on a famility vacation and had a MoYu WeiSu packed. I was really temped to whip it out a few times but I did not. The temps where extremely high (in South of Holland/ West of Germany where we were). Now the stickers of the white side are not in their spots but half on the cubies. Funny looking..Like they slipped of. I have plenty wite 4X4 stickers lying around so no problem here


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## MarcelP (Jun 9, 2014)

mark49152 said:


> Fingering for this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R52VOcrphwI
> Note the J/T-permish section in the middle.


`

That is great. I think it is a shame that guy was bullied away here. Look at how Brest does it:

http://youtu.be/JkKoxY4Cp6M


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## mark49152 (Jun 9, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> I think it is a shame that guy was bullied away here.


Yeah I agree - he was a good contributor to the community and didn't deserve the abuse he got.

Just noticed that apart from the four EPLLs (all <MU>) the Jb, T, F and Y perms are my only PLLs that aren't <RUD>.


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## sneaklyfox (Jun 10, 2014)

Interesting algs people use for their PLLs. I use what I think is the standard Y perm. That's the one that is two OLLs.
[F R U' R' U' R U R' F'] [R U R' U' R' F R F']

I've also tried the M-slice U perms before but I'm so used to the 2-gen algs that I still use those.


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## Artic (Jun 10, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> `
> 
> That is great. I think it is a shame that guy was bullied away here. Look at how Brest does it:
> 
> http://youtu.be/JkKoxY4Cp6M



What exactly happened to the guy? I've seen a few of his videos but didn't know he was ever here or any of this back story.


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## MarcelP (Jun 10, 2014)

Artic said:


> What exactly happened to the guy? I've seen a few of his videos but didn't know he was ever here or any of this back story.



Well, when he started a topic about being color neutral he got a hard time and some guy said CN is not worth the hassle because single cross is faster bla bla. Then when he started a topic about the PLL's he was asked 'how fast are you, because why would I want to watch your video's' or something like that. When he replied 'I am between 10 12 average', he was asked for proof. He said he was busy with job and study but that he would make a video. So then they kept harraasing him for the video. And when he showed a video with some sub 10's or even faster he was called 'Fake'. Then ofcourse he left. I would not take that kind of crap eighter.


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## sneaklyfox (Jun 10, 2014)

I watched some of jskyler's vids. I thought he was a nice guy and pretty good teacher. Unfortunate that people weren't nice to him.

On another note, I just broke my PB single with a 8.74 solve!!! And that's over a whole second better! Soooo happy! Unfortunately it will be harder to break too.

Scramble: R' F' D' B' D B2 R2 L' U' R' U2 R2 U' L2 U2 B2 U' R2 U' B2 U2 
X-cross and PLL skip


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## MarcelP (Jun 10, 2014)

sneaklyfox said:


> I watched some of jskyler's vids. I thought he was a nice guy and pretty good teacher. Unfortunate that people weren't nice to him.
> 
> On another note, I just broke my PB single with a 8.74 solve!!! And that's over a whole second better! Soooo happy! Unfortunately it will be harder to break too.
> 
> ...



Whoohoo, nice! Sub 9 single :0 I am going to try the scramble tomorrow with daylight..


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## MarcelP (Jun 11, 2014)

So today I had my 4th and 5th sub 20 Ao12. I did 100 solves before work and 75 after 

Some AUF where not correct but hey, you can't have it all  One solve I actually did 3 different PLL's and still had a 21.16 (solve 164). Would have been a nice 17.xx 


Spoiler



158. 19.67 L2 D L2 D' F2 D' L2 U F2 U2 R D' R L2 B' F2 R' F' U'
159. 21.39 B2 L2 D' R2 F2 U R2 L2 D R F' D' B2 R D2 B' D' L2 F
160. *15.85* U' B2 R2 B2 U2 F2 U F2 R2 F2 D R' B U B D L2 B' U F' R U'
161. 21.62 D U2 L2 D' R2 F2 R2 B2 L2 D' U2 L' D2 L2 B2 U' F' D L' F' L2 D
162. 20.14 D F2 L2 U L2 D L2 F2 D L2 U' F' U B' R2 U' L' F U' B' U'
163. 19.32 U B2 U2 F2 R2 F2 R2 U R2 D R' D2 B D R' D F2 U L2 D
164. 21.16 B2 F2 U2 B2 D F2 R2 D' L2 U F2 R' U2 F D2 F2 R' B' D F2 R2
165. 19.69 U L2 U' F2 R2 L2 F2 D L2 B2 U' L' B U B' R B D2 B2 L' F2
166. 27.55 D R2 B2 D F2 D' L2 D2 R2 D2 U' L' F2 D' F U' L' D2 U L2 D2
167. 20.73 U' B2 U B2 D R2 D' B2 U F2 D2 L F D R' U' F R' F' L B' L2
168. 21.99 B2 R2 B2 U R2 U L2 D' L2 B2 U' F R D' R' L D' F2 R2 U B
169. *16.16* D2 R2 U2 B2 D F2 U' R2 L2 F2 R' B D2 F U R2 U2 L' B R2 U'
170. 19.26 R2 U' R2 F2 D2 U F2 U L2 B2 L D R' B2 L2 U' F D2 R2 D2
171. 19.07 B2 U' R2 F2 D2 R2 L2 F2 D' F2 U L' U' B2 F2 U L2 B' U2 R2 D U'



[video=youtube_share;jcvlDkIQ9pc]http://youtu.be/jcvlDkIQ9pc[/video]

EDIT: Looks like my new gained speed is staying this time  Jay!


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## kcl (Jun 11, 2014)

Yay marcel! Sub 20 global will follow soon.


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## mark49152 (Jun 11, 2014)

Nice one Marcel. Looks like it while be a while longer before I catch you up


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## sneaklyfox (Jun 11, 2014)

kclejeune said:


> Yay marcel! Sub 20 global will follow soon.



I agree with this. And then after that you need new goal.


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## newtonbase (Jun 12, 2014)

Any suggestions as to what I should concentrate on with very limited practice time? I'm very jealous of you guys who car sit and do an AO100 when you feel like it. I'm lucky if I get half an hour a day to myself and my times are not really improving. I don't think I have any particular weaknesses other than finding pieces in F2L I'm just pretty slow at everything. So what sort of practice is likely to bring the best rewards in very short sessions.


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## kcl (Jun 12, 2014)

newtonbase said:


> Any suggestions as to what I should concentrate on with very limited practice time? I'm very jealous of you guys who car sit and do an AO100 when you feel like it. I'm lucky if I get half an hour a day to myself and my times are not really improving. I don't think I have any particular weaknesses other than finding pieces in F2L I'm just pretty slow at everything. So what sort of practice is likely to bring the best rewards in very short sessions.



Try to improve your f2l cases. This helps both recognition and execution speed. Generate cross solved scrambles to practice solely f2l. Once you can do it faster consider generating normal cross scrambles and track your first pair. Good luck!


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## sneaklyfox (Jun 12, 2014)

newtonbase said:


> Any suggestions as to what I should concentrate on with very limited practice time? I'm very jealous of you guys who car sit and do an AO100 when you feel like it. I'm lucky if I get half an hour a day to myself and my times are not really improving. I don't think I have any particular weaknesses other than finding pieces in F2L I'm just pretty slow at everything. So what sort of practice is likely to bring the best rewards in very short sessions.



Focused practice is key for you. Someone with a lot of time might be able to improve solely by solving cubes mindlessly over and over again. Since you can't, try to focus on improving one thing each day for however long you have to practice. So one day you might focus on cross (maybe improving movecount, doing blind cross, etc.). Another day maybe F2L (what kclejeune suggested, and go slow without pauses). Another some PLL training. If you're aiming for improved F2L, for example, don't finish the solve after you do F2L. Go right into a new scramble. I'm not sure where you're at right now. Do you have a solve on video we can watch? Maybe we can give you more pointers.


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## MarcelP (Jun 12, 2014)

kclejeune said:


> Yay marcel! Sub 20 global will follow soon.


Thanks Kennan, I actually start to believe that myself. The Ao175 was still 21.59 though..


mark49152 said:


> Nice one Marcel. Looks like it while be a while longer before I catch you up


Nah, the way you have been improving there is no resting for me. I have got to do my very best to stay ahead. And that is not I can keep up very much longer. Keep in mind I cube much longer than you. A year longer or so.


sneaklyfox said:


> I agree with this. And then after that you need new goal.


LOL, lets wait and see if I can get sub 20.  I think it will not go much further than that..


newtonbase said:


> I'm very jealous of you guys who car sit and do an AO100 when you feel like it. I'm lucky if I get half an hour a day to myself and my times are not really improving.



It is 05:16 in the morning as I type this message. I could also be in bed to sleep. I choose to cube a bit. It is all about priorities  Focus on slow solving without pauses when you practice and you will get there.


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## MarcelP (Jun 13, 2014)

Toadays first 4 solves where 

1. 18.41 B2 D F2 L2 U' L2 D R2 U B2 D2 F R2 U' L' U L' U B2 D R'
2. 25.30 B2 R2 U B2 D B2 D2 L2 B2 D2 U2 B' L F L2 F2 L' B2 U' B2 D2 U'
3. 19.89 D2 U' F2 R2 U R2 L2 F2 U' L2 D B' L' U' L2 F' L2 U2 R2 F L' D'
4. 17.80 U F2 L2 D' B2 U R2 U B2 F2 D' B U2 B U B2 L' U2 B F2 D2 U2

The 25.30 was green cross. The others white/yellow. I suspect I might reconsidder my CN carriere. LOL I think I have spend too much time doing timed solves (where I choose white or yellow first over any other color). I am going to do an All but NO White and NO Yellow Ao100 later today to see where I am at. If it turns out really bad I might switch back from CN to yellow/white. (Good)Times are finally mattering to me 

EDIT: I did 62 solves with lunch

Mean: 22.70
Average: 22.72
Best time: 17.10
Median: 22.77
Worst time: 27.46
Standard deviation: 2.50

Best average of 5: 20.02
31-35 - 18.74 (17.45) 20.78 (26.57) 20.55

Best average of 12: 21.88
28-39 - 19.07 22.53 26.61 18.74 17.45 20.78 26.57 20.55 (27.46) 23.57 (17.10) 22.97

No white and Yellow. It is difficult to tell if I am slower CN. Because I have 22 averages all the time. Only last week most averages have been sub 22. So I might concentrate on none white/yellow for a while maybe that will set things straight


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## MarcelP (Jun 13, 2014)

sneaklyfox said:


> Scramble: R' F' D' B' D B2 R2 L' U' R' U2 R2 U' L2 U2 B2 U' R2 U' B2 U2
> X-cross and PLL skip


I could not find the x-cross during inspection. I did it on white cross becasue I suspect you did white cross and got a 21.74. Should have picked the blue cross LOL.

EDIT: 21.82 on blue cross LOL


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## sneaklyfox (Jun 13, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> I could not find the x-cross during inspection. I did it on white cross becasue I suspect you did white cross and got a 21.74. Should have picked the blue cross LOL.
> 
> EDIT: 21.82 on blue cross LOL



I did it on white.
y x' // inspection
R D F R U' L // xcross

Hmmm... 17.26 blue cross. Actually I hate crosses that have a lot of edges already there but incorrect with respect to each other.


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## Rocky0701 (Jun 13, 2014)

sneaklyfox said:


> I did it on white.
> y x' // inspection
> R D F R U' L // xcross
> 
> Hmmm... 17.26 blue cross. Actually I hate crosses that have a lot of edges already there but incorrect with respect to each other.


I hate those too, they end up looking easy, but take way longer.


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## MarcelP (Jun 13, 2014)

sneaklyfox said:


> I did it on white.
> y x' // inspection
> R D F R U' L // xcross
> 
> Hmmm... 17.26 blue cross.



Wow, nice x-cross! I could not have found that.. And I see you are still good at CN solves. Very nice. You should considder going full CN and take advantage of haveing an x-cross in each and every solve. If you look at Feliks's walkthroughs, you will see that it is possible to predict cross + 1 eevry time.


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## kcl (Jun 13, 2014)

Rocky0701 said:


> I hate those too, they end up looking easy, but take way longer.



R D' R' D R

Adjacent cross edge swap, very handy.


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## Antonie faz fan (Jun 13, 2014)

HUP HOLLAND HUP! ONS LANDJE IS DE BEST!


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## Rocky0701 (Jun 13, 2014)

kclejeune said:


> R D' R' D R
> 
> Adjacent cross edge swap, very handy.


Cool, thanks!


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## MarcelP (Jun 14, 2014)

kclejeune said:


> R D' R' D R
> 
> Adjacent cross edge swap, very handy.



Yeah, I place cross on top and do something like two sledge hammers which is basically the same.  R U R' U' R



Antonie faz fan said:


> HUP HOLLAND HUP! ONS LANDJE IS DE BEST!


Yep, The Netherlands destroyed Spain with soccer. I did not watch the game since I am not into soccer


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## MarcelP (Jun 14, 2014)

So.. yesterday I did an Ao100 after work and dinner. I did most of them on white/yellow. It was 21.4X with the first Ao12 sub 20. The rest of the solves had no sub Ao12 unfortunatly. Over the next few hours I did slow solving in front of TV. I think I did a good 300 solves over the whole day. And today my first 12 solves without warm up where for the sub 20 contest:



Spoiler



Rubik's cube
14-jun-2014 9:54:49 - 10:06:30

Mean: 19.39
Average: 19.39
Best time: 15.92
Median: 19.09
Worst time: 22.81
Standard deviation: 2.04

Best average of 5: 17.75
2-6 - 16.48 (19.42) (15.92) 18.22 18.54

Best average of 12: 19.39
1-12 - 20.11 16.48 19.42 (15.92) 18.22 18.54 20.61 21.12 (22.81) 18.32 22.37 18.75

1. 20.11 L2 D2 U2 B L2 U2 R2 F' U2 B2 R2 D' R' F' U B D L2 D R2
2. 16.48 B' R2 D2 U2 B2 L2 R2 B R' U2 B2 D2 F2 L' U L' U' L' B'
3. 19.42 F L D' F' D2 R' F2 D B' R U2 L2 U2 R2 F2 L' D2 L' U2
4. 15.92 U' F' D' L' B2 D' F2 R F2 R F L2 U R2 L2 U B2 U D R2
5. 18.22 U L2 U2 F2 R2 D2 F2 R2 U F D2 R F2 L' U R' D' F2 L'
6. 18.54 D2 R2 L2 B' L' F' D F' U' B2 U2 D2 L2 B' R2 L2 B L2 D2 F'
7. 20.61 L R D2 R' B2 F2 R2 U2 B2 R U B F' D2 L' B' R' D2 U
8. 21.12 U2 F2 D2 R2 B' F' U2 F D' R U L' D' F' L' B2 D' F D
9. 22.81 B2 F' U2 F' L2 U2 R2 B D' L2 B L2 B' D' U' B' D' L D
10. 18.32 U F' B R' D2 B D2 F R F D' L' D2 R' B2 R' U2 R U2
11. 22.37 D' F D2 B D' F2 R' D F' U2 L2 U2 B2 U' R2 D2 F2 U' L2 B2
12. 18.75 D' R2 F2 L2 F2 U2 B2 D2 U' R B D U L2 F' D F2 D2









EDIT: Oh and... the only thing that has changed over the last few weeks I think, is that I can keep better track while at slight higher TPS.


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## Rocky0701 (Jun 14, 2014)

Marcel, I just got a 21.54 ao100 PB, I'm coming for you!


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## MarcelP (Jun 14, 2014)

Rocky0701 said:


> Marcel, I just got a 21.54 ao100 PB, I'm coming for you!



LOL, nice going there!


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## Rocky0701 (Jun 14, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> LOL, nice going there!


Haha, thanks. I was really in the zone though, so I don't think I'll be catching you anytime soon.


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## sneaklyfox (Jun 15, 2014)

That's where all PBs come from.


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## Rocky0701 (Jun 15, 2014)

sneaklyfox said:


> That's where all PBs come from.


Yeah, but like even more than usual. I don't think I'd ever been that in the zone while solving.


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## MarcelP (Jun 15, 2014)

Rocky0701 said:


> Haha, thanks. I was really in the zone though, so I don't think I'll be catching you anytime soon.


I think you have allready caught me.. I do not get 21.5X Ao100's every day. Most of the days I do now, but like yesterday evening I had a 22.1X


sneaklyfox said:


> That's where all PBs come from.



If only we knew how to get in the zone.. Wait.. they have drugs for that right? LOL. I bet some 'speed' drugs might help stay focussed.. LOL.. Nah, I prefer to be slow then.


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## kcl (Jun 15, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> I think you have allready caught me.. I do not get 21.5X Ao100's every day. Most of the days I do now, but like yesterday evening I had a 22.1X
> 
> 
> If only we knew how to get in the zone.. Wait.. they have drugs for that right? LOL. I bet some 'speed' drugs might help stay focussed.. LOL.. Nah, I prefer to be slow then.



You actually can use drugs for Cubing to benefit you, but they aren't addictive and stuff. If you use a heart rate reducer and take it before a high pressure event it helps you remain calm through it.


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## MarcelP (Jun 15, 2014)

Sounds dangerous  Would not try that.


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## MarcelP (Jun 18, 2014)

Nice one.. 13 seconds solve 

[video=youtube_share;No6IHaMJbBU]http://youtu.be/No6IHaMJbBU[/video]


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## Rocky0701 (Jun 18, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> Nice one.. 13 seconds solve
> 
> [video=youtube_share;No6IHaMJbBU]http://youtu.be/No6IHaMJbBU[/video]


Nice solve! I love your reaction BTW.


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## Artic (Jun 18, 2014)

Nice solve! I think it's time for you to turn up the heat on all your solves. I really do feel that you are already sub 20. You just need to increase your TPS. You still seem to be turning slowly imo.


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## MarcelP (Jun 18, 2014)

Artic said:


> Nice solve! I think it's time for you to turn up the heat on all your solves. I really do feel that you are already sub 20. You just need to increase your TPS. You still seem to be turning slowly imo.



LOL, if only it was that easy to turn faster. I just have slow hands. These two solves where probably at the best I can do TPS-wise. Any faster and I lose all look ahead. I have been training TPS though. Just did an Ao100 Last Layer this evening. I am sub 6 appearantly. That is quite an achievement. I remember clearly the substep competition little over a year ago when I was averaging 12 seconds last layer. I only need to work on AUF. About 50% of the times I make the wrong turn. There is something just not connected the right way in my brain for it:

[video=youtube_share;HnS-SkDRi_w]http://youtu.be/HnS-SkDRi_w[/video]


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## sneaklyfox (Jun 18, 2014)

On 13 sec solve... nice scramble.


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## MarcelP (Jun 19, 2014)

sneaklyfox said:


> On 13 sec solve... nice scramble.



Yeah,
26. 13.93 F B U R' D' R D2 F' B2 R U2 R2 F' D2 L2 B2 R2 F' U2 B L2

I think I could easily sub 10 that with a few tries.  The pairs just made them self.

y // white U, Red on F
R' U R' F D2// X-cross

and from there all pairs easy..


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## sneaklyfox (Jun 20, 2014)

Almost another sub-9 (9.08) with this scramble: B2 U F2 L2 F2 L2 R2 D' B2 U2 B2 L' F2 L' F2 D R2 B' D2 F' U'


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## MarcelP (Jun 20, 2014)

sneaklyfox said:


> Almost another sub-9 (9.08) with this scramble: B2 U F2 L2 F2 L2 R2 D' B2 U2 B2 L' F2 L' F2 D R2 B' D2 F' U'



I scrambled a cube with this scramble.. It is too dark to do a timed solve over here. I will save it for tomorrow first solve of the day. Looks like an easy cross


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## mark49152 (Jun 20, 2014)

sneaklyfox said:


> Almost another sub-9 (9.08) with this scramble: B2 U F2 L2 F2 L2 R2 D' B2 U2 B2 L' F2 L' F2 D R2 B' D2 F' U'


23.35 no warm up. Got an OLL I don't know


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## TDM (Jun 20, 2014)

sneaklyfox said:


> Almost another sub-9 (9.08) with this scramble: B2 U F2 L2 F2 L2 R2 D' B2 U2 B2 L' F2 L' F2 D R2 B' D2 F' U'


x2 y' // Inspection
R' B2 d R2 F2 // Cross (5/5)
U R' U' R U2 R' U R // F2L-1 (8/13)
d R U' R' // F2L-2 (4/17)
U L' U' L // F2L-3 (4/21)
U' R' U2 R U' R' U R // F2L-4 (8/29)
U F U R U2 R' U' R U2 R' U' F' // OLL (11/40)
U2 y' l' U R' D2 R U' R' D2 R2 // PLL (10/50)

Found an easy F2L but I had to look up the OLL because I didn't know it.


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## sneaklyfox (Jun 21, 2014)

Actually I did yellow cross instead of white though white looks pretty easy too.

Scramble: B2 U F2 L2 F2 L2 R2 D' B2 U2 B2 L' F2 L' F2 D R2 B' D2 F' U'



Spoiler



y // inspection
L' F' D' R2 // cross (4/4)
U' R U2 R' U' L U L' U L U' L' // F2L-1 (12/16)
U R U' R' U2 L' U L // F2L-2 (8/20)
y U' L' U' L // F2L-3 (4/24)
U2 R U' R' U R U' R' // F2L-4 (8/32)
U2 // AUF (1/33)

See, I told you I forget solves as soon as they're over. I didn't even realize until I tried to reconstruct it that I skipped LL. I just thought it was a PLL skip. It took awhile for me to figure out what I did because I couldn't figure out why F2L-1 wasn't L' U L U' L U L'.


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## MarcelP (Jun 21, 2014)

sneaklyfox said:


> Actually I did yellow cross instead of white though white looks pretty easy too.
> 
> Scramble: B2 U F2 L2 F2 L2 R2 D' B2 U2 B2 L' F2 L' F2 D R2 B' D2 F' U'
> 
> ...



Nice! The first L' should be a L though.. I have never had a LL skip that I kniow of..  I had 22.10 on Yellow cross with no skips..


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## MarcelP (Jun 21, 2014)

Wow... Nice blue cross, Well the cross is not very easy but all the pairs are so easy:

42. 13.58 U2 L2 D R2 U' L2 B2 U' F2 U2 B2 R U2 B2 D B2 R U' B D' R U'

x y2 // Green on U white on F
R2 y U' R' F R D2 // cross (7)
U R' U R //F2L 1(11)
U2 R U' R' //F2L 2 (15)
y' U2 R U' R // F2L 3 (20)
U' y' R U' y L' U2 L // F2L 4 (28)
OLL (41)
R U R' F' R U R' U' R' F R2 U' R' U // PLL (55)

EDIT: if this was an LL skip.. I would have soooo a sub 9


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## MarcelP (Jun 21, 2014)

Update: slowly.. slowly getting there..

Over the last few days I have had multiple sub 22 Ao100's. I have about once or twice a day a sub 20 Ao12..
This morning all solves sucked. I stopped at about 40 solves at 24.XX Arggghhh.. I think there where more than 3 sup 30's.. I do not know how this is even possible.

And this afternoon Ao100 21.45

Best average of 12: 19.40
34-45 - (17.29) 17.34 19.90 21.26 17.79 20.01 20.56 17.58 19.05 20.29 (24.66) 20.24



Spoiler



34. 17.29 B2 U F2 D2 L2 U' B2 F2 U2 L2 D R' B D U F' D' L F2 L2 D2 L'
35. 17.34 R2 U2 B2 F2 U F2 D2 R2 U2 R2 U R L2 F U2 B' D' B' R' F2 U' R2
36. 19.90 D' B2 D L2 B2 F2 L2 U2 L2 U L2 F' U B L' D2 L2 D R L2 B2 L'
37. 21.26 F2 D' R2 D' R2 D' L2 D B2 L2 U' B' U2 L' B' F2 R' B U F2 D2 U'
38. 17.79 B2 R2 D2 R2 U F2 U F2 U2 F2 U2 B' R' L' U2 B' D2 U L2 F2 D2 U'
39. 20.01 D R2 F2 U' R2 U2 R2 F2 U F2 L2 B' F2 D B D' L B2 D' R' D
40. 20.56 D L2 U2 L2 F2 D U2 R2 D F2 U' B' D2 U B' R' F L' U2 R L2
41. 17.58 R2 U2 B2 R2 D L2 F2 D B2 R2 U B' R B F R' L' F R' F' D U
42. 19.05 B2 D' R2 B2 F2 U' R2 D2 L2 U2 B' L' U R F L2 U L F' L' D
43. 20.29 F2 D2 F2 L2 U F2 L2 D2 R2 U' R2 B U R2 B R F R2 D' L D'
44. 24.66 B2 F2 D' L2 U2 R2 D' L2 F2 U L' D2 B' R D F' L' U R D
45. 20.24 U' L2 U R2 B2 D' L2 F2 U2 L2 D2 B' D' F' D' L2 B2 R' B' U2



 I still got it..


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## sneaklyfox (Jun 21, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> Nice! The first L' should be a L though.. I have never had a LL skip that I kniow of..  I had 22.10 on Yellow cross with no skips..



No, it's an L'. Check again.


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## MarcelP (Jun 21, 2014)

sneaklyfox said:


> No, it's an L'. Check again.



Oops, you are right..


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## Schmidt (Jun 22, 2014)

I know you like to draw, so check out this channel
http://youtu.be/TgqHoiCSrGE


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## MarcelP (Jun 22, 2014)

Schmidt said:


> I know you like to draw, so check out this channel
> http://youtu.be/TgqHoiCSrGE



Wow, that is amazing! I wish I coud do that.


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## Rocky0701 (Jun 23, 2014)

Schmidt said:


> I know you like to draw, so check out this channel
> http://youtu.be/TgqHoiCSrGE


Wow, it looks like a real cube is just sitting on the paper.


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## sneaklyfox (Jun 23, 2014)

I wish I could do that too. I subbed. His drawings are amazing... looks so real!


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## MarcelP (Jun 25, 2014)

I had a 12.26 full step single in my coffey break. Jay! Scramble is lost unfortunatly..


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## mark49152 (Jun 25, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> I had a 12.26 full step single in my coffey break. Jay! Scramble is lost unfortunatly..


Wow man, you are getting too fast. Was it easy cross or F2L? Or awesome lookahead?


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## Logiqx (Jun 25, 2014)

I had a nice full step solve about a week ago. Have a go at this scramble if you fancy going for a good single time:
D' R2 F D' U2 B' L F2 D2 R' B L2 D R' U2 F U' L' D' R D R' L2 B2 U

I won't post my solution here as it may spoil the solve but I posted my solution in the easy / lucky thread:
http://www.speedsolving.com/forum/s...rambles-thread&p=987990&viewfull=1#post987990

I never figured out the (mis-)scramble for my luckiest solve ever... one move cross, ~15 move F2L then a LL skip. It was untimed... doh!


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## MarcelP (Jun 25, 2014)

mark49152 said:


> Wow man, you are getting too fast. Was it easy cross or F2L? Or awesome lookahead?



Easy (yellow) cross, All pairs like R U' R (or something), OLL 28




and PLL Ua





I also had a full step 14 on camera today.. But the average of 12 was 20.12.. and I am not going to bother you guys with averages over 20 seconds..LOL



Logiqx said:


> I had a nice full step solve about a week ago. Have a go at this scramble if you fancy going for a good single time:
> D' R2 F D' U2 B' L F2 D2 R' B L2 D R' U2 F U' L' D' R D R' L2 B2 U



I am going to try that one..

EDIT: 16.32.. if it wasn that I had my worst PLL Na (z) (U R' D R2 U' R D')2 (z') it would have been so much nicer


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## h2f (Jun 25, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> if it wasn that I had my worst PLL Na (z) (U R' D R2 U' R D')2 (z') it would have been so much nicer



Have You tried this Na: R' U L' U2 R U' M' B r' U2 R U' r ?


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## MarcelP (Jun 25, 2014)

h2f said:


> Have You tried this Na: R' U L' U2 R U' M' B r' U2 R U' r ?



Wow.. nice... Thanks..


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## Logiqx (Jun 25, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> EDIT: 16.32.. if it wasn that I had my worst PLL Na (z) (U R' D R2 U' R D')2 (z') it would have been so much nicer



Lol. I didn't like my last layer either... both OLL + PLL were cases that I sometimes lock up or trash the F2L so I did them "cautiously". It was still a PB single despite the LL - 15.53. 

I use the long Na algorithm which includes Jb (where the Jb is similar to T-perm) and the overall TPS is better than many of my PLLs.
R U R' U (R U R' F' R U R' U' R' F R2 U' R') U2 R U' R'


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## Rocky0701 (Jun 25, 2014)

Since everyone is annoying you with scrambles, I might as well too. Try this: D U' R' L D B' F2 R2 L2 U2 D' B' D R2 B L D2 F L' B' F' L R' F' L (scramble with cross color on bottom) It is my single PB: 13.14, hopefully you will see the 5 move double x cross which was a surprise to me.



Spoiler



y // inspection
u' L' R F R2 //5 move double x cross
U R U2 R' U2 y' R' U2 R U' R' U R // 13 moves
y' R U' R' // 4th pair Lol
F R U R' U' F' R U B' U' R' U R B R' // OLL
R U R' U' R' F R2 U' R' U' R U R' F' // T-Perm PLL
U// AUF


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## Schmidt (Jun 25, 2014)

I found a nice solution to that scramble when I saw it in the easy thread. After a few tries I had a 8.xx stackmat. I will write down the solution when I have a cube in my hand.


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## Schmidt (Jun 25, 2014)

Scramble with cross on bottom

D' L' R F R2 //xx-cross
y R' U R U L' U' L // #3
R' U' R U' R' U' R //#4
Left hand fat sune // OLL
U2 J perm // done


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## h2f (Jun 25, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> Wow.. nice... Thanks..



I've taken it from Plechoss' (Michał Pleskowicz) OH PLLs.


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## TDM (Jun 25, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> EDIT: 16.32.. if it wasn that I had my worst PLL Na (z) (U R' D R2 U' R D')2 (z') it would have been so much nicer


That's Nb  If you want a good Nb, try R' U R' F R F' R U' R' F' U F R U R' U' R or its inverse R' U R U' R' F' U' F R U R' F R' F' R U' R.




Rocky0701 said:


> D U' R' L D B' F2 R2 L2 U2 D' B' D R2 B L D2 F L' B' F' L R' F' L


You should use a random state scrambler like qqTimer, csTimer or cTimer. You'll get better scrambles.


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## Rocky0701 (Jun 25, 2014)

Schmidt said:


> Scramble with cross on bottom
> 
> D' L' R F R2 //xx-cross
> y R' U R U L' U' L // #3
> ...


Nice! 



TDM said:


> That's Nb  If you want a good Nb, try R' U R' F R F' R U' R' F' U F R U R' U' R or its inverse R' U R U' R' F' U' F R U R' F R' F' R U' R.
> 
> 
> You should use a random state scrambler like qqTimer, csTimer or cTimer. You'll get better scrambles.


I agree, qqtimer and cstimer crash on my stupid computer, so I use an app on my kindle. I will check out cTimer. Also, does cubetimer have random state?


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## TDM (Jun 25, 2014)

Rocky0701 said:


> I agree, *qqtimer and cstimer crash on my stupid computer*, so I use an app on my kindle. I will check out cTimer. Also, does cubetimer have random state?


Really, why?
Also cubetimer is the worst online computer timer I've ever seen; don't use it unless there really is no alternative. It uses 25 move 6-gen scrambles _for 2x2_. And no it does not have random state scrambles.


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## MarcelP (Jun 25, 2014)

Logiqx said:


> Lol. I didn't like my last layer either... both OLL + PLL were cases that I sometimes lock up or trash the F2L so I did them "cautiously". It was still a PB single despite the LL - 15.53.
> 
> I use the long Na algorithm which includes Jb (where the Jb is similar to T-perm) and the overall TPS is better than many of my PLLs.
> R U R' U (R U R' F' R U R' U' R' F R2 U' R') U2 R U' R'



13.02 on first try . Nice scramble indeed..


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## mark49152 (Jun 26, 2014)

I hate plateaus. Did 600 pairs solves today, with no improvement. That's over 2000 pairs solves in the last 3 weeks, in addition to blind practice and full solves. Average of first 500 = 10.07, average of 600 today = 10.12. Bao50's were 9.53 and 9.62 respectively. 

I need a change of tactic - if I'm not improving over that number of solves, I must be doing something wrong...


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## Artic (Jun 26, 2014)

mark49152 said:


> I hate plateaus. Did 600 pairs solves today, with no improvement. That's over 2000 pairs solves in the last 3 weeks, in addition to blind practice and full solves. Average of first 500 = 10.07, average of 600 today = 10.12. Bao50's were 9.53 and 9.62 respectively.
> 
> I need a change of tactic - if I'm not improving over that number of solves, I must be doing something wrong...



You're doing the right thing, you just have to keep practicing! It took me 8000 solves to go from an average of 21.xx to 19.xx. Right now I've gotten two Ao100 in the high 18's...so the improvement comes slowly sometimes. But one important thing that I will emphasize over and over again. PRACTICE slow solves!! People keep repeating that...and I know it's hard to swallow....but it really will help you improve. It definitely did for me!


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## Rocky0701 (Jun 26, 2014)

TDM said:


> Really, why?
> Also cubetimer is the worst online computer timer I've ever seen; don't use it unless there really is no alternative. It uses 25 move 6-gen scrambles _for 2x2_. And no it does not have random state scrambles.


Because my computer sucks. I only use cubetimer for big cubes and 3x3, but I think that I am just going to start using Ruwix scrambles, along with timing on my Kindle. Would you recommend Ruwix?


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## MarcelP (Jun 26, 2014)

mark49152 said:


> I hate plateaus. Did 600 pairs solves today, with no improvement. That's over 2000 pairs solves in the last 3 weeks, in addition to blind practice and full solves. Average of first 500 = 10.07, average of 600 today = 10.12. Bao50's were 9.53 and 9.62 respectively.
> 
> I need a change of tactic - if I'm not improving over that number of solves, I must be doing something wrong...



I agree with Artic, you are doing it right. But I think you are a little impatient  You want to progress too fast. The way you are putting effort and time you will definatly come very far. Just do not watch the youngsters that become sub 15 in the third month of cubing. At our age that's not going to happen. Last few weeks I have been putting in a lot of time. Doing many timed solves. Like getting up 05:00 AM to do an Ao100 and then do another Ao100 at the end of the day, and in between I do training like cross or LL. Still I am around 21.xx with my Ao100's. So average -wise I am not really getting faster.. BUT.. I get sub 20 Ao12's daily. And I get a lot more sub 18 Ao5's.. So I know there has been made great progress on my part.

EDIT: Yesterday I had my first Ao12 sub20 that was on camera. At least I do not remember doing that before.  It's on my Youtube.


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## mark49152 (Jun 26, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> I agree with Artic, you are doing it right. But I think you are a little impatient


Thanks both for your support. Yeah I got a little fed up after that session. I don't expect fast improvement, just some improvement - 0.1-0.2s would have been enough to keep me motivated. Instead I got slower! Maybe I now need a day off to let that practice sink in


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## DeeDubb (Jun 26, 2014)

mark49152 said:


> I hate plateaus. Did 600 pairs solves today, with no improvement. That's over 2000 pairs solves in the last 3 weeks, in addition to blind practice and full solves. Average of first 500 = 10.07, average of 600 today = 10.12. Bao50's were 9.53 and 9.62 respectively.
> 
> I need a change of tactic - if I'm not improving over that number of solves, I must be doing something wrong...



Here's my two cents on things. You can't control your hands getting faster. Obviously that takes time/practice, and for everyone that develops at a different rate, so worry about the things you can control. Sure, dedicate time to helping your hands/muscle memory, but dedicate some time to adding new weapons to your solving arsenal. Did you finish OLL? If you did, maybe look at some edge control stuff, once you get better at edge control, look at winter variation to force some OLL skips. Sure, you may feel like you should be faster with what you have, but why not add some new things? More info can't hurt you, but that's just my opinion. Right now, I'm adding Color Neutrality to my Roux, which I don't really NEED to get faster. I could probably keep pushing to sub-15 only solving a fixed block, but I like to add new tricks to how I solve. It keeps things fresh and keeps me motivated. everyone has different style though, so it's up to you.


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## mark49152 (Jun 26, 2014)

DeeDubb said:


> Here's my two cents on things.


I was just sounding off after having a frustrating session. Nothing to take too seriously 

Those 2000 solves were F2L pairs only. I'm working on adding lookahead to my arsenal. Actually I think I will stop timing for a while - under time pressure I'm probably going too fast and not concentrating on lookahead as I should. So the next 1000 solves will be untimed.


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## sneaklyfox (Jun 26, 2014)

Pfft 2000 pairs only. I've done perhaps 20 times that many full solves since May 2013 when I went to comp and got a 15.92 Ao5. Today I'd say my global average is only slightly (less than half a second) faster than that. It's annoying.


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## sk8erman41 (Jun 26, 2014)

mark49152 said:


> I was just sounding off after having a frustrating session. Nothing to take too seriously
> 
> Those 2000 solves were F2L pairs only. I'm working on adding lookahead to my arsenal. Actually I think I will stop timing for a while - under time pressure I'm probably going too fast and not concentrating on lookahead as I should. So the next 1000 solves will be untimed.



Haha if anything you should be proud of yourself for doing that much deliberate practice! I think you hit the nail on the head with the sink in factor. The practice might now show itself while practicing, but later in full solves. When you get frustrated it might help to switch puzzles, do some 4x4 or something for a little while. If you are not into anything but 3x3 maybe just take a break for a day or two. And like you and everyone else says, untimed solves will help that deliberate practice sink in.


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## mark49152 (Jun 26, 2014)

sneaklyfox said:


> Pfft 2000 pairs only.


Well, in the time that took me, I could only have done 1000 full solves, so half the lookahead practice. Half of zero improvement would be even worse, right 

At some point I'll make up for it with 2000 cross+1 and 2000 LS+LL, etc. Hopefully I won't end up single.


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## MarcelP (Jun 26, 2014)

mark49152 said:


> Hopefully I won't end up single.



That is the hard part of practise.. making it look like you are doing something usefull to your partner.. LOL


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## mark49152 (Jun 26, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> That is the hard part of practise.. making it look like you are doing something usefull to your partner.. LOL


Yeah that is really difficult LOL. How about "I can make loads of money if I get good". Maybe not. Or, "it improves my dexterity which makes me better at washing dishes". That's plausible.


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## Rocky0701 (Jun 27, 2014)

mark49152 said:


> Yeah that is really difficult LOL. How about "I can make loads of money if I get good". Maybe not. Or, "it improves my dexterity which makes me better at washing dishes". That's plausible.


I have an equation for your problem. X-1 = S, where s represents the amount of solves to do, and X represents the amount of solves it would take for your wife to leave you.


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## sneaklyfox (Jun 27, 2014)

mark49152 said:


> Yeah that is really difficult LOL. How about "I can make loads of money if I get good". Maybe not. Or, "it improves my dexterity which makes me better at washing dishes". That's plausible.



LOL... good one! I was just saying "pfft" to your 2000 pairs solving because of just comparing my very little improvement with many more solves.


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## sk8erman41 (Jun 27, 2014)

I went through Jskyler's CN training for about a month when I was averaging around 28 seconds or so. I got my times very close to normal average on all colors. Then I decided that I wanted to focus on white cross because I thought that it would help me narrow my focus a bit and increase my overall improvement. I haven't solved CN for a long time now and although I am still improving, the progress has slowed significantly and I am averaging about 22-23 now. Last week for whatever reason I just decided to do a red cross on a random solve. Since then I have found myself trying out other colors without even thinking about it. I did a full CN Ao25 yesterday and although I was slightly higher than my normal avg. I was sub-25 with it. It totally took me by surprise because I did no real CN practice whatsoever since I stopped. I think that it might be because I have been solving megaminx lately. It has forced me to see other colors better and not focus so much on specific pieces. I think that it is also helping me with look ahead. 

I have gotten to the point (thanks to Marcel and this thread) that I am really not that concerned with my times, more just the enjoyment of cubing. I was really pushing myself to get faster and faster and would get discouraged with lack of progress, but I have now changed my mindset. I am just cubing now for the fun of it. Obviously its more fun to see faster speeds, so I am still working on getting faster, but just without as much self pressure. I guess the purpose of my post is two fold- one to recommend megaminx as a good training tool for other puzzles, and two to ask: Think I should keep up with the CN? I think I will still just do white cross for the CFOP subset race.


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## MarcelP (Jun 27, 2014)

sk8erman41 said:


> I guess the purpose of my post is two fold- one to recommend megaminx as a good training tool for other puzzles, and two to ask:
> Think I should keep up with the CN? I think I will still just do white cross for the CFOP subset race.



I have a Megaminx. I do not know how to solve it without the instruction paper with algs  I think Megainx is fun, but I also like Pyra, Skewb, Big puzzles etc. I just do not have enough time to practise all of them. I do 5 solves per week on the 4X4, and 5 solve on 2X2 in weekly competition. I wish I could do more. 

About CN, if you are fairly comfertable with CN you should try to stick with it. Yeah it is all about you own fun. No one else cares if you are sub 12 or sub 22. If you are enjoying cubing then you are doing it right. In my last video (sub 20 Ao12) I have a few red, blue and green crosses in there. Overall I think my yellow cross are the fastest because pairs on yellowcross are my absolute best. But then the white OLL really is my worst OLL color. I need full second most to recognise the case. I have a strategy that is working now. I have been doing this for almost a year I think. Untimed solves I try to stay away from white/yellow. And on timed solves I scan white/yellow first.


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## sk8erman41 (Jun 27, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> I have a Megaminx. I do not know how to solve it without the instruction paper with algs  I think Megainx is fun, but I also like Pyra, Skewb, Big puzzles etc. I just do not have enough time to practise all of them. I do 5 solves per week on the 4X4, and 5 solve on 2X2 in weekly competition. I wish I could do more.
> 
> About CN, if you are fairly comfertable with CN you should try to stick with it. Yeah it is all about you own fun. No one else cares if you are sub 12 or sub 22. If you are enjoying cubing then you are doing it right. In my last video (sub 20 Ao12) I have a few red, blue and green crosses in there. Overall I think my yellow cross are the fastest because pairs on yellowcross are my absolute best. But then the white OLL really is my worst OLL color. I need full second most to recognise the case. I have a strategy that is working now. I have been doing this for almost a year I think. Untimed solves I try to stay away from white/yellow. And on timed solves I scan white/yellow first.



I used to have trouble with Last Layer for mega, but then I watched Antoine Cantin's tutorial and realized that you already know what you need for the basic method, T-perm, Y-perm and a simple PLL and OLL "alg" that is really just common sense. I learned by watching the video once and since I have been pretty hooked. Makes it a lot more fun when you don't need the sheet.






Not sure what "paper" you use, but I used to use Andy Klise's beginner guide and this method is WAY easier


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## MarcelP (Jun 27, 2014)

Allright, I will try to watch this sunday. I always wanted to be able to solve the Megaminx without paper


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## MarcelP (Jun 28, 2014)

Artic said:


> PRACTICE slow solves!! People keep repeating that...and I know it's hard to swallow....but it really will help you improve. It definitely did for me!



Yes, Mark, here is how I practise slow solves, when I have company of my kids and pets  I can not concentrate and go full speed. Instead I try to make solves smooth and without stops.. I think that is the best practise you can do..

[video=youtube_share;M2Y7l0FjJkw]http://youtu.be/M2Y7l0FjJkw[/video]

EDIT: these where my first solves of the day and far from smooth and without pauses. I just wanted to show how I cube with distraction.


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## mark49152 (Jun 28, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> Yes, Mark, here is how I practise slow solves, when I have company of my kids and pets  I can not concentrate and go full speed. Instead I try to make solves smooth and without stops.. I think that is the best practise you can do..


I often do slow solves while on the phone (and I spend a lot of time on the phone). I'm not sure it helps me much though. Maybe it does but it's hard to separate the effect of that from other practice. Generally though, I feel I need to concentrate to really improve. If I just solve, I revert to habits, patterns, rhythms and pace which are "normal" for me, and the more I do that the more I reinforce those things and make it harder to break or surpass them. To improve I need to force some kind of change, whether it's speed, smoothness, lookahead, reduced pause for recognition, fully planned cross, etc., and that always takes concentration.


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## MarcelP (Jun 29, 2014)

sk8erman41 said:


> Not sure what "paper" you use, but I used to use Andy Klise's beginner guide and this method is WAY easier



Okay, I can solve the cube without paper.. Well... only the T and Y perm on a MegaMinx? I can not do that even if my life depended on it.. I still have to read that from the paper. But awesome video from Antoine.. I will sub him.


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## ThomasJE (Jun 30, 2014)

How are things going Marcel? I haven't been here for ages because of exams, so you may have caught up with me.


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## MarcelP (Jun 30, 2014)

ThomasJE said:


> How are things going Marcel? I haven't been here for ages because of exams, so you may have caught up with me.



Hi THomas, NO.. I wish.. LOL I have made some good progress. I Ao100 in the low 21's (nice sentence huh?). I am very pleased with that. But the downside is that to get these averages you must do a lot of 17 and 18 to compensate the 28 and 29's.. So I know I can do 17's but I just can not do them all the time  Last few days have been horrible with 22.xx Ao100's. But I recon I need some time of. I have been practising too much and it is working against me as I am loosing lookahead. How about your times? Have you gotten worse due to the studying? Or did the time off do you good (which does in some cases).


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## ThomasJE (Jun 30, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> Hi THomas, NO.. I wish.. LOL I have made some good progress. I Ao100 in the low 21's (nice sentence huh?). I am very pleased with that. But the downside is that to get these averages you must do a lot of 17 and 18 to compensate the 28 and 29's.. So I know I can do 17's but I just can not do them all the time  Last few days have been horrible with 22.xx Ao100's. But I recon I need some time of. I have been practising too much and it is working against me as I am loosing lookahead. How about your times? Have you gotten worse due to the studying? Or did the time off do you good (which does in some cases).



I've only just started solving again, but I think that a break now and again can really help; I didn't solve much for about a month or two around the start of last year, and when I got back into solving I had a slight decrease in times. I've had a similar decrease in times in the past two or three days that I've been solving and I have had quite a few sub-17 solves today.

Sometimes you do need a break to relax. Any cricket fans in England will know about Jonathan Trott and his troubles with a stress-related illness. But you're doing well in the World Cup though .


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## Gordon (Jul 3, 2014)

After a longer break from the forums, yesterday I returned again to Marcel's Bar here.
Man, I had a lot to read 

First of all, congrats to your great times, good improvement, and everything else.

A few days ago, I started again to time my solves. I think I didn't do any serious timed solves since my last (which also was my first) competition.
Only a few during ppp's (Pee Pee Pause) at work.

Here are some 3x3 numbers:
comp end of march: 
25.83 avg of 5 with 23.02 best single (which was very surprising and good for me)

avg of 100 some days ago: 
28.11 (σ = 3.90) including best time: 19.55, best avg5: 22.46 (σ = 0.85), best avg12: 24.92 (σ = 3.19), worst time: 45.65

avg of 50 yesterday:
27.62 (σ = 3.00) including best time: 20.06, best avg5: 24.40 (σ = 1.98), best avg12: 26.76 (σ = 4.30), worst time: 42.94

avg of 12 today:
26.12 (σ = 1.81) including best time: 22.32, best avg5: 24.61 (σ = 1.36), worst time: 29.95
(better than the last few, which are usualy around 28 seconds)

What I can see out of these number is, that I need to be more constant. Every now and then, I get times above 40 seconds, usualy because of messed up crosses, F2L pairs or OLLs.

I hope all your effort and improvement can motivate me to start practicing more again and maybe bring me down to constant sub-25.

Soooo, I'm glad to be back, moving on to practice cross+1


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## Rocky0701 (Jul 3, 2014)

Gordon said:


> I'm glad to be back, moving on to practice cross+1


You should check out the CFOP substep compeition, which started in this thread a couple of months ago.


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## Gordon (Jul 3, 2014)

Yeah, I participated once. I think I could rejoin there.


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## mark49152 (Jul 3, 2014)

Welcome back Gordon


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## MarcelP (Jul 3, 2014)

Welcome back Andreas (Gordon), You have made a good progress as well. Ao100 28 is not to shabby right? What I thinkis really cool is that both you and me have a very cool single 4X4 and bad average  LOL..


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## Gordon (Jul 3, 2014)

My 4x4 is especially lucky. No parity, easy OLL, PLL skip 
It's still by all time PB

I am also quite happy with the Ao100 of 28, but I guess if I could get rid of the fails it could be around 27 - 27.5.
I had 6 sup-40 and around 20 sup-32 (I am unhappy with all solves above 32) which is 20% of all solves...
However, 22 solves were sub-25, which is nice.

This is how the chart looks like:


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## mark49152 (Jul 3, 2014)

Here's something curious. I just re-timed all my OLL and PLL alg groups. My execution is 15% faster than last time I timed them all, which was February. So I thought hey, I've been hammering F2L practice since then, and hardly done anything on algs apart from warm-ups and a few PLL attacks. So my F2L must have improved by loads more, right?

But... pairs have only improved 16% despite 4000 solves in the last few weeks. Cross+1, the target of hours of dedicated blind practice and a new competition, improved by 13%. And my solves overall? Guess what... 15%. Which I guess means my recog and pauses are down about 15% too.

So despite lots of practice targeted at specific substeps, I seem to have improved pretty consistently right across all steps. Strange!


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## pipkiksass (Jul 3, 2014)

mark49152 said:


> Here's something curious. I just re-timed all my OLL and PLL alg groups. My execution is 15% faster than last time I timed them all, which was February. So I thought hey, I've been hammering F2L practice since then, and hardly done anything on algs apart from warm-ups and a few PLL attacks. So my F2L must have improved by loads more, right?
> 
> But... pairs have only improved 16% despite 4000 solves in the last few weeks. Cross+1, the target of hours of dedicated blind practice and a new competition, improved by 13%. And my solves overall? Guess what... 15%. Which I guess means my recog and pauses are down about 15% too.
> 
> So despite lots of practice targeted at specific substeps, I seem to have improved pretty consistently right across all steps. Strange!



I'd imagine a lot of hand speed comes with that much practice, and probably benefits your LL. I really need to get round to some good practice.

I've hardly cubed for a fortnight, and got my first PLL skip which didn't follow a terrible F2L today... 11.65! Couldn't believe it when I saw the timer. If my F2L was always that smooth I'd be averaging about 15 - just shows how much work is needed!


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## sneaklyfox (Jul 3, 2014)

pipkiksass said:


> I'd imagine a lot of hand speed comes with that much practice, and probably benefits your LL. I really need to get round to some good practice.
> 
> I've hardly cubed for a fortnight, and got my first PLL skip which didn't follow a terrible F2L today... 11.65! Couldn't believe it when I saw the timer. If my F2L was always that smooth I'd be averaging about 15 - just shows how much work is needed!



@pip: time to change your sig.
@mark: 15% improvement sounds pretty good actually.


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## mark49152 (Jul 3, 2014)

sneaklyfox said:


> @mark: 15% improvement sounds pretty good actually.


Yeah I'm not complaining, just pointing out the unexpected pattern.

Have you really done over 22,000 solves this year? How on earth do you find the time with all those young kids?!


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## MarcelP (Jul 3, 2014)

mark49152 said:


> Yeah I'm not complaining, just pointing out the unexpected pattern.
> 
> Have you really done over 22,000 solves this year? How on earth do you find the time with all those young kids?!



When you are sub 15 like Melody, it is much easier to do big numbers


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## mark49152 (Jul 3, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> When you are sub 15 like Melody, it is much easier to do big numbers


Even if I was sub-0.15, I still wouldn't have time to do that many scrambles


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## sneaklyfox (Jul 4, 2014)

mark49152 said:


> Have you really done over 22,000 solves this year? How on earth do you find the time with all those young kids?!



Yes, I've counted every solve (though I may have misremembered a few of the untimed solves). Yeah, my days are busy but everybody needs some down time, right? So I figured it out:

22,000 solves in 6 months ~ 120 solves a day
1 solve takes about 30 seconds, real man's time (including scrambling, inspection, and solve)

- 20 min break in the middle of the afternoon when my three youngest are having naptime and my two oldest are playing nicely together ~ 40 solves
- 30 min down time in the evening after all the kids are in bed ~ 60 solves
- washroom breaks ~ 6 solves
- nursing sessions ~ 10 solves
- random single solves when I happen by a cube ~ 4 solves

Well, that's a rough picture of what a day could be like. Back when my twins nursed for an hour a session at 8 sessions/day, I could do 80-100 solves during that time besides other things like falling asleep in the recliner.


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## mark49152 (Jul 4, 2014)

sneaklyfox said:


> Well, that's a rough picture of what a day could be like.


Impressive account of how to fill every spare moment with cubing. It's great that your three youngest all nap at the same time!


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## MarcelP (Jul 4, 2014)

Yes, impressive indeed.  120 solves per day is not all that much. I do not think I do that all days but most days 120 is no problem. 

Recently I have switched to csTimer. Man, I really love that timer. It forces you to wait before picking up the cube like a stackmat does. And all the options.. just love it..
My first solves of today.. nothing special, I feel that my look ahead is still improving. No frantic searching while doing F2L. LL still sucks major..
[video=youtube_share;QZ4L0RQKphM]http://youtu.be/QZ4L0RQKphM[/video]


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## mark49152 (Jul 4, 2014)

Statistical analysis time, folks.

I keep an Excel plot of all my 3x3 averages. Just out of curiosity, I tried adjusting an exponential trend line to converge on different steady state values (i.e. the theoretical fastest I could ever get) and looked at which gave the best fit (R^2) against my data set. Depressingly, by far the best fit is a line that converges on 21 seconds. I hope that doesn't mean it's more than just a temporary plateau!

If I meet the targets I have set for myself this year, culminating in sub-18 by end of year, the trendline that passes through those would see me one day reach a theoretical limit of 15 seconds. If I want to be a sub-10 solver one day, my target this year should be sub-16.5 (although I would be in a retirement home by the time the line intercepts sub-10 anyway).


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## MarcelP (Jul 4, 2014)

mark49152 said:


> .. my target this year should be sub-16.5 (although I would be in a retirement home by the time the line intercepts sub-10 anyway).



LOL, the other people in the retirement home will be very annoyed by your cubing.. 

I am pretty sure sub 16 is out of reach for me. My ultimate goal will be siomething around sub 18. I would be very happy with that. I am quite sub 22 these days. And I have almost every day a Sub 20 or at least very low 20.XX Ao12. But in Ao100 I really do not see that happen soon. Looking at your signature.. I see you have almost same times as I do..


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## mark49152 (Jul 4, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> LOL, the other people in the retirement home will be very annoyed by your cubing..
> 
> I am pretty sure sub 16 is out of reach for me. My ultimate goal will be siomething around sub 18. I would be very happy with that. I am quite sub 22 these days. And I have almost every day a Sub 20 or at least very low 20.XX Ao12. But in Ao100 I really do not see that happen soon. Looking at your signature.. I see you have almost same times as I do..


You have better smaller averages but our ao100s are close. I guess that means I'm more consistent. Today I did an ao50 before work and got 21.95 with stdev of 1.64. Best ao5 was still sup-20.

On the other hand, it shows you have better developed potential than me. You can already get sub-18 averages and you know what it feels like to be that fast. You've proven your capability. All you have to do is extend that form to the rest of your solving.


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## Gordon (Jul 4, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> LOL, the other people in the retirement home will be very annoyed by your cubing..



Most of them don't hear it, or they could swith off their hearing aids.


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## mark49152 (Jul 4, 2014)

Gordon said:


> Most of them don't hear it, or they could swith off their hearing aids.


I'll have them all cubing as well. We'll have races every day - winner gets to choose what to watch on TV


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## MarcelP (Jul 4, 2014)

LOL!!!!! watching TV is the only thing to do so close before dying huh?


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## MarcelP (Jul 4, 2014)

mark49152 said:


> You have better smaller averages but our ao100s are close. I guess that means I'm more consistent. Today I did an ao50 before work and got 21.95 with stdev of 1.64. Best ao5 was still sup-20.
> 
> On the other hand, it shows you have better developed potential than me. You can already get sub-18 averages and you know what it feels like to be that fast. You've proven your capability. All you have to do is extend that form to the rest of your solving.



I think my fast solves depend on luck and not on potential  Some different, could you please do Ao25 or 50 when you have the time with someting like csTimer. With inspection time, and 055 seconds holding (like stackmat it says)? So with picking up cube? I am curious if it gives you (a lot) worse averages?


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## mark49152 (Jul 4, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> I think my fast solves depend on luck and not on potential  Some different, could you please do Ao25 or 50 when you have the time with someting like csTimer. With inspection time, and 055 seconds holding (like stackmat it says)? So with picking up cube? I am curious if it gives you (a lot) worse averages?


Well yeah I would almost certainly suck at least until well practised with a new timer and procedure. I use a phone timer and start and stop with one hand on the cube. I don't time inspection either, although I don't spend long on it.

I time myself just for fun and am not competitive, but you are right, if we want to meaningfully compare our times, we should use consistent (competition) rules. I will give it a go when I have time.

Another factor that might affect our larger averages is how many outliers are excluded by the timer. I don't think there's a standard for that - some exclude only the best/worst 1, others exclude the best/worst 5%, etc. I think mine does the latter.


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## MarcelP (Jul 4, 2014)

mark49152 said:


> I time myself just for fun and am not competitive, but you are right, if we want to meaningfully compare our times, we should use consistent (competition) rules. I will give it a go when I have time.



Yeah, I think, if picking up the cube is not part of your normal routine it might throw you off a few secs also. It took me a while to adjust to that. Now at a competition I will be prepared. I suspect that you might be slight slower on Ao50 and 100 with picking up like that. You have to watch the screen to see if light is green so you can release spacebar (or stackmat). That causes you to look away from the cross solution you have in mind. Pre pare your self.. it is harder than you suspect.


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## Schmidt (Jul 4, 2014)

Or... you could just use a stackmat and enter the times manually.


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## MarcelP (Jul 4, 2014)

Schmidt said:


> Or... you could just use a stackmat and enter the times manually.



Yeah. stackmat is the best way to go. I left mine at the last competion. All I have is a louzy QJ timer which does not even stop 50% of the times.


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## mark49152 (Jul 4, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> Yeah, I think, if picking up the cube is not part of your normal routine it might throw you off a few secs also. It took me a while to adjust to that. Now at a competition I will be prepared.


Yeah I don't think I can be bothered with any of that. I doubt I will ever compete, and I do most of my solving on the sofa or bed with my phone on my knee. No desk or laptop or stackmat and it would be too much hassle to start with that. I start the timer before first turn and stop after last turn and that's good enough for me.

Feel free to treat my averages with skepticism that they aren't worth the same as yours


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## MarcelP (Jul 4, 2014)

mark49152 said:


> Feel free to treat my averages with skepticism that they aren't worth the same as yours


Oh no, it's nothing like that. I am just curious if we are at the same level  It might explain why I get some good smaller averages.


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## mark49152 (Jul 4, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> Oh no, it's nothing like that. I am just curious if we are at the same level  I might epxlain why I get some good smaller averages.


We're not at the same level yet. I have made good progress in the last 6 months and certainly gained on you, but have not caught you yet; and I accept that even if I matched your ao100 PB tomorrow, you got yours under stricter conditions.

Have you got any comps planned?


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## MarcelP (Jul 4, 2014)

Yeah. I am planning for Eat Sleep Cube Repeat (just the sunday) and Amstelveen. I am really looking forward to both. Seeing Mats, Erik Akkersdijk, Antoinie (fazfan) doing their stuff in real is a privilege.


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## MarcelP (Jul 5, 2014)

mark49152 said:


> You have better smaller averages but our ao100s are close. I guess that means I'm more consistent. Today I did an ao50 before work and got 21.95 with stdev of 1.64. Best ao5 was still sup-20.



Todays (well this mornings  ) Ao100 was terrible.. Overall result was sub 21.5 so that's good but I felt it went terrible. Also no sub 20 Ao12's. And yes, my stddev is bigger than yours..



Spoiler



Generated By csTimer on 2014-7-5
solves/total: 100/100

single
best: 15.41
worst: 28.71

mean of 3
current: 20.42 (σ = 1.92)
best: 18.89 (σ = 3.37)

avg of 5
current: 20.17 (σ = 1.63)
best: 19.25 (σ = 0.12)

avg of 12
current: 20.61 (σ = 1.45)
best: 20.40 (σ = 1.55)

avg of 50
current: 21.25 (σ = 1.75)
best: 21.20 (σ = 1.59)

avg of 100
current: 21.41 (σ = 1.78)
best: 21.41 (σ = 1.78)

Average: 21.41 (σ = 1.78)
Mean: 21.48

Time List:
1. 20.26 R2 F2 B' R' F2 U' F D F' R U' L2 U2 L2 F2 D F2 U R2 U' 
2. 26.87 B2 L2 D R2 D L2 D R2 B2 F2 R2 B L B2 R2 F2 D L R U B 
3. 21.23 R2 L' D2 B2 R2 U D' B' R2 U' D2 R' D2 R U2 R F2 D2 L 
4. 20.22 U' B' U' B' R U R' F U2 B D2 R2 U2 F2 U' F2 R2 
5. 23.17 R' D' R' F B2 R B' L U L' F B2 D2 F L2 B' D2 R2 B2 L2 
6. 23.10 U' R U R D' F R L2 U' F2 B2 D F2 D2 F2 D F2 
7. 26.16 L R B2 D2 L U2 R' B2 U2 B2 L2 F' D' B D U R' F2 R' D L2 
8. 21.12 R F2 L F2 D2 U2 L D2 F2 D2 B R' D2 U R2 F D B2 L' U2 
9. 19.30 U2 D R B2 U D' B U2 L' F' U B2 U L2 U' L2 U F2 D' 
10. 19.74 F' R' F' R' D' L F2 B2 R U L2 D F2 U B2 U L2 F2 D' 
11. 24.83 L F2 D2 F2 L' D2 L' R' D2 B2 F U F R D L' B2 R' F R' 
12. 19.03 U2 L2 R2 F2 L2 U2 B U2 F2 L2 R' B L D F2 L2 F' D2 L 
13. 23.53 D' R2 F D' B' D2 R U2 R' F U2 L2 F L2 U2 R2 F' 
14. 22.48 L2 R2 F' D2 B' F U2 L2 R2 F L' R F' U2 B D' L2 F D2 F2 
15. 20.74 D' R2 D R2 U F2 L2 U2 B2 F U R' B' D' U B2 L' D2 B 
16. 20.15 B2 U' L2 U' L2 U F2 U' R2 F2 D2 R D L2 B' D2 R' B R U' R 
17. 19.79 R2 D' R F2 B U' B R F2 L U2 L2 F B2 R2 L2 F' R2 D2 F2 L2 
18. 20.72 L2 B R2 D F2 R2 U2 B D' F2 R2 D2 R U2 R2 B2 R2 L B2 D2 
19. 19.67 U2 B' L2 F2 D2 B L2 B U2 L2 B L' B2 D2 R U' L B L' 
20. 22.32 U2 L2 B2 U' F2 B D L' B' R U2 L2 F2 R2 U2 L2 D' B2 D2 L2 F2 
21. 22.64 U2 B U2 D2 R' U2 B' U2 D' L F2 L2 B2 U R2 U2 F2 B2 U L2 B2 
22. 22.67 U2 L F R B R F2 B R B L2 F2 R2 F2 U2 F2 D' R2 U R2 U2 
23. 24.06 D F2 U R2 U2 L2 R2 U' B2 F2 U' B D B D2 F' R B U' F' U' 
24. 20.92 L2 U2 F2 R2 F2 L2 B L2 U2 F U2 L' F D' R F2 U' L' U L2 B 
25. 20.66 B2 L2 U2 R2 D L2 D' B2 U' L2 B2 L' F R D2 B' U B D2 U2 F 
26. 19.68 L U L2 B' D R' D2 L' D F' R2 D' B2 U' F2 D2 F2 D' L2 U' 
27. 22.24 R2 B L2 R2 B L2 B2 U2 B' D2 L2 R B F2 U F2 R2 B L U F 
28. 24.96 U2 L2 F2 D2 U L2 B2 U2 B2 F2 U' L' F R2 D' R2 B' D' F L U' 
29. 21.31 U2 R' U B' R' U2 L B L2 U D2 R2 D2 F L2 F R2 L2 U2 F' R2 
30. 24.35 B L2 R2 B' F2 L2 D2 B2 F' L2 R' D R D2 B' R' D L U' F2 
31. 19.52 D R2 U2 L2 D' B2 U' F2 L2 U2 R B D B' U F D R B R' 
32. 26.21 D L2 D' B2 D2 B2 R2 U' L2 F2 L2 F U2 R' B2 F2 U2 B' D F2 U' 
33. 19.67 L' F2 U2 L' D2 B2 L' B2 R U2 F2 D' L' R B D2 U' L' B2 F2 U' 
34. 28.71 F' L2 D2 B' L2 B' R2 B' R2 D F' U L R' D' L2 D F2 U2 
35. 24.38 L2 D2 B2 R2 F2 L2 U2 R2 U' F2 D' B R' U F' U2 R2 F L U' R 
36. 21.15 U2 F2 L F2 B D' R F R' L' D2 R2 D' R2 L2 F2 D' B2 R2 F2 D' 
37. 17.85 F2 L2 R F2 U2 L U2 L B2 U' L2 B F' D' F' L' B F' L' 
38. 19.73 L2 R2 F2 D' L2 D2 B2 D' F2 U R B2 U R' D' R2 U' L B' R2 
39. 21.23 D' B2 F2 D' F2 R2 D2 R2 U B2 D' F' D' F D' L2 R B' L F' U' 
40. 19.43 L2 B U2 B U2 F L2 F2 L2 D' U2 L2 U2 B' R' F2 L' D2 U2 
41. 20.50 L2 D B2 D' B2 R2 D' L2 U B2 R2 F' R' D' B R' B2 U2 F' R F 
42. 22.71 B' R U2 L B' L2 B U2 F U' L2 B2 D' B2 U F2 U F2 B2 
43. 22.16 F2 U2 R2 U' R2 F2 U B2 U L2 R2 B U2 L2 R' F L2 B U' F2 U2 
44. 19.59 L2 D' R2 F2 U' F2 R2 F2 L2 U2 R' U2 B' U F R F L B F' 
45. 20.11 D' U' R2 F2 D L2 B2 L2 F' R' D' F D2 L2 F2 R' U' L 
46. 21.54 R2 F2 L2 D R2 U' F2 L2 U2 B2 R U F D L R D R D B2 
47. 20.68 U R' F U' L F2 U' R' B' U2 D2 F D2 B2 R2 B' L2 D2 F 
48. 19.22 D' L2 U B2 R2 U' R2 U' F2 L2 D2 B' L' D' B' F2 D R B L' F2 
49. 19.38 U' L2 D2 R2 B2 F2 D2 B2 R2 U' L2 B' F' L' U R2 F' D2 R' D R' 
50. 22.12 R2 D F2 L2 D2 U' B2 R2 B2 L2 D L' F U2 B D' F' U' L' D' 
51. 19.15 F2 L D2 L F2 D2 R' D2 R2 D2 L B U2 B2 D' F L' B' L' U2 
52. 15.41 F2 L2 F2 D' U2 L2 R2 F2 D' L2 D' F' D' F L' D2 B2 F2 R D F' 
53. 22.59 U2 B2 R' L2 F U2 B' R' D F B' R2 U2 F' R2 F2 L2 B' D2 F' 
54. 25.20 L2 R2 U2 F2 D' B2 D' R2 U2 L2 R' F U R D2 L' B' R F D2 U2 
55. 24.73 U2 B2 L' D2 U2 R D2 B2 L2 R' D2 F' D2 B' L U R D' R F U' 
56. 18.70 F2 R2 U' L2 D' L2 F2 R2 U2 L B' F2 L' R2 U2 R B D' 
57. 20.22 R D' F2 L' F R2 U D R' B R' B2 R D2 L B2 R L' F2 U2 
58. 20.98 D2 U2 B' L2 B2 L2 U2 L2 F2 R2 B2 U B' D' L R' D' B2 U' R' F 
59. 20.75 R2 B R L' U2 L' B U' L2 F D2 L' F2 R' U2 R' L' F2 R' U2 B2 
60. 20.07 U2 F2 R2 D2 U2 B2 L' D2 L2 F2 R' U' B2 L' D2 U2 B D2 L' R 
61. 21.80 B2 U2 L2 D' B2 D' R2 D F' U R D F2 L F' U B2 F 
62. 19.31 D B' R2 U B U2 D2 R B L' U2 D2 R F2 L U2 D2 F2 R2 
63. 21.80 U2 L2 R B2 U2 L U2 R' U2 B2 R' B F' R U F' D' F2 R B' 
64. 24.18 F R2 F D2 F2 L2 B' R2 F2 L2 R2 U B' U2 L2 F' L U' B' D' 
65. 21.86 U' R' B' D2 B2 L F' U' R' D' R2 B L2 B' R2 F D2 R2 F L2 B2 
66. 21.83 R2 D L2 U L2 D F2 L2 D U' R2 F' U B2 U2 R2 D2 L B2 R2 U 
67. 17.72 D F U R B2 U2 L' B2 U L' F2 R' U2 F2 L D2 F2 D2 L' 
68. 23.43 R' F2 L2 B2 L R2 D2 L2 B2 U B2 U2 F' D' R U2 R' F U 
69. 20.95 R2 U' B2 F2 L2 U L2 D' B2 F2 U2 B' U L F2 D R U' R B2 L 
70. 16.37 F2 U' R2 D L2 F2 L2 U2 R2 U R U B F R F D' B' L D' 
71. 21.92 L2 U F2 U2 B2 D' L2 U L2 U R' F' D U F2 D2 L' B' D2 F 
72. 21.82 F2 L' F2 L B2 R' D2 L U2 R2 U B' R D F L D B2 U2 R2 
73. 27.71 L' B' L' D2 R' U2 R B U' F2 R' D2 B2 R B2 R F2 R2 D2 F2 
74. 21.88 R2 D' B R2 D2 R' U L' F B2 R2 U D2 F2 D R2 U2 L2 U 
75. 22.25 L2 F D2 F2 R2 B' L2 U2 L2 F L2 D' R' F' L2 B' U' L R2 U2 R' 
76. 23.26 U' R2 U F2 R2 U2 F2 D' F2 U2 L2 R' U' F2 U2 R D' B' F L U' 
77. 22.93 D B2 D R2 F2 U B2 D B2 L' B' D2 B D2 L' R B' U' B F 
78. 22.51 R2 F2 U2 R2 B' L2 F D2 U2 L2 B2 R' B' R2 F2 U2 L' U L R' 
79. 22.29 R2 U2 L F2 U2 R2 D2 F2 R F2 R2 U F' L B L F L U2 L D' 
80. 23.08 U2 R2 B F2 U2 R2 B2 D2 R2 B' F L' D R' B' F2 R2 B2 R2 D F' 
81. 18.50 L2 D2 F2 D' U2 F2 R2 U B2 R2 D' F D R' U' L' B2 F2 L B U2 
82. 21.93 B2 L D R' D2 F' U B' D' R L2 U2 F' L2 D2 F B2 R2 B2 U2 F' 
83. 26.92 B2 D' U2 L2 U' R2 B2 L2 U2 B2 R' B' D' B' F2 D B' U2 R B 
84. 18.91 L2 B2 L' U2 R' F2 L' B2 R D2 R2 D F2 D B' U' R D U R B 
85. 22.00 U2 B2 L2 R2 U2 F' U2 B' D2 L2 B' D R' U2 B F2 U L' R' U F' 
86. 20.79 B2 D2 B2 U' L2 R2 U' R2 F2 U L D2 B D2 F R' D R B' U 
87. 20.55 U' L2 B2 L2 U F2 D2 B2 F2 R' B R' F D U' L' D' F' U 
88. 18.85 D B2 D F2 D' R2 D B2 D2 U' L2 F D' F' R2 F' R B2 D2 B F 
89. 23.06 F' R B R L2 U' F U' B R2 L U2 B2 L2 D2 F2 R' U2 D2 B2 
90. 25.15 D2 R' D2 B2 L R2 B2 D2 R D B2 R2 U2 F' U' B F L2 R' 
91. 20.95 R' D2 B2 F2 L2 R' U2 F2 R' F2 R U R' B' D' F2 R U L R2 
92. 19.00 L2 U F2 D' L2 D U2 R2 F2 U2 B2 R' U L2 F' U' L2 F' R2 U R 
93. 19.09 L2 D2 R2 F2 L2 D' R2 D' U' R2 B2 F R' U2 B2 R2 U R' D L U' 
94. 20.97 F2 R2 U2 L2 U' B2 D L2 F2 D B L' F' D2 R U' L2 B2 F' D' R 
95. 20.52 B2 R2 B F2 U2 R2 D2 L2 B2 F D2 R B2 U' F L U' R' F' D R 
96. 21.27 D2 F' R2 D2 F' U2 F2 D2 F D2 B' L' U B2 U R' B D U F' U 
97. 17.32 L2 U F2 L2 F2 D F2 D2 F' U' L B2 D F' R' U' L F 
98. 22.01 L2 F' R2 B L2 F D2 L2 F D2 U L' U2 R' D' B U2 F U2 L D2 
99. 18.30 D' L2 B2 U' B2 U' F2 L2 F2 D2 R2 F' L F' L U' L R2 F R F2 
100. 20.96 R2 B2 D' F2 D2 L2 U F2 U2 R2 B R2 U2 L F' R2 B' D' B2 U


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## mark49152 (Jul 5, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> Todays (well this mornings  ) Ao100 was terrible.. Overall result was sub 21.5 so that's good but I felt it went terrible. Also no sub 20 Ao12's. And yes, my stddev is bigger than yours..


That's actually very similar to a typical distribution for me. I usually see the ao50/100 around high 21 (22 on a bad day) and the ao5/12 around low 20 or high 19. Stdev is usually around 1.8.


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## MarcelP (Jul 5, 2014)

mark49152 said:


> Stdev is usually around 1.8.



Mine is usually way over 2. After these 100 I changed cube to my Weilong V2:


Spoiler



101. 20.40 B R' D' F2 B' U2 F' L2 U2 L B' U2 D2 R2 F' D2 B R2 B2 L2 U2 
102. 19.73 R F' B' D' L' U' D B' D' F' U B2 D2 L2 F2 D' F2 R2 F2 R2 F2 
103. 19.93 D2 L D F2 L D' F R' U R2 F2 R2 F2 R' F2 D2 B2 L F2 L 
104. 18.83 U' L B' D' F B' U' B2 D R D' R2 F2 U' D2 B2 L2 U2 L2 D2 
105. 18.53 F B' R2 D' L F2 R' L2 U' F L2 F R2 U2 F2 R2 L2 U2 B' D2 
making:

avg of 5
current: 19.50 (σ = 0.58)
best: 19.25 (σ = 0.12)

avg of 12
current: 19.94 (σ = 1.07)
best: 19.94 (σ = 1.07)


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## DeeDubb (Jul 5, 2014)

Marcel, let's race to Sub-20 Ao100  I'm having issues right now because I'm adding color neutrality, but it's getting better.


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## MarcelP (Jul 5, 2014)

Yeah sure. I think you are progressing a bit faster than me but I could use the motivation.


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## mark49152 (Jul 5, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> Mine is usually way over 2.


What do you think accounts for the differences between your faster and slower solves?


----------



## MarcelP (Jul 5, 2014)

mark49152 said:


> What do you think accounts for the differences between your faster and slower solves?



Two things.. 
1) I can have a difficult scramble with hard cross and hard pairs. No matter how cool I am and how good the look ahead is, that solve will not be fast. 
2) And I have some OLL + PLL combinations that I just can not do in sub 10..

All other solves when I focus are around the 20 secs mark.


----------



## DeeDubb (Jul 5, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> Yeah sure. I think you are progressing a bit faster than me but I could use the motivation.



Yeah, I need motivation too... Actually, since going x2/y Roux Color Neutral, I haven't had a sub 25 Ao100... but it's getting there.


----------



## mark49152 (Jul 5, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> Two things..
> 1) I can have a difficult scramble with hard cross and hard pairs. No matter how cool I am and how good the look ahead is, that solve will not be fast.
> 2) And I have some OLL + PLL combinations that I just can not do in sub 10..
> 
> All other solves when I focus are around the 20 secs mark.


Harder scrambles happens to all of us. I'm wondering whether you're less consistent than me because you get impacted worse by harder scrambles. Maybe practise hard cross and F2L cases, and find some new tricks?

Are you still solving CN? And full OLL?


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## MarcelP (Jul 5, 2014)

mark49152 said:


> Maybe practise hard cross and F2L cases, and find some new tricks?
> 
> Are you still solving CN? And full OLL?



Yes, I am still CN, however in timed solves I tend to do a lot more yellow/white solves. And yes, I know full OLL. I am looking at new F2L cases frequently. That really helps. I think my big stddev is also due to lack of concentration. I have graduated race to sub 20 allready. When I warm up and really focus my self (like making a video) I do much better.. I figure in a fw months or year or so I can do sub 20 without concentration


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## mark49152 (Jul 5, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> I figure in a fw months or year or so I can do sub 20 without concentration


I have noticed a strange phenomenon recently. Sometimes I do a solve flat out, great lookahead, good flow, and I'm thinking "this must be sub-20" and then I hit the timer and it's a 24 and I have no idea why.

Conversely, sometimes I get a nasty cross, panic my way through F2L, fumble the LL and think "wow this was a mess, must be 24 at least" and it turns out to be a 19.

Do you ever get that? Sometimes the times seem so wrong I wonder if my timer is reliable!


----------



## MarcelP (Jul 5, 2014)

mark49152 said:


> Do you ever get that? Sometimes the times seem so wrong I wonder if my timer is reliable!



Yeah, but rarely. I can feel when a sub 20 is comming.  I also know when it is a bad solve that will end up 28 seconds.


----------



## MarcelP (Jul 5, 2014)

On a Dutch/Belgic Facebook group I am in, someone posted a PB with this scramble:

B2 U2 F' R' U2 F' D' F U D2 R2 B D2 F R2 F B2 U2 D2 F

Without thinking I could get a good time I scrambled the cube with this scramble and got a 11.62  It is better than my PB. Too bad it was not a scramble given to me during my own sessions 

anyway, I did:



Spoiler



x2 y'// Yellow U en orange op F
R' D F'// X-cross (did not expect that one because of the D)
Bla bla/ F2L
Sune OLL
H PLL


Jay!


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## pipkiksass (Jul 6, 2014)

mark49152 said:


> I have noticed a strange phenomenon recently. Sometimes I do a solve flat out, great lookahead, good flow, and I'm thinking "this must be sub-20" and then I hit the timer and it's a 24 and I have no idea why.
> 
> Conversely, sometimes I get a nasty cross, panic my way through F2L, fumble the LL and think "wow this was a mess, must be 24 at least" and it turns out to be a 19.
> 
> Do you ever get that? Sometimes the times seem so wrong I wonder if my timer is reliable!



I get this ALL the time. I think it would be interesting to commentate, then watch these solves back. You hear yourself saying 'this is good', but on the video you see massive pauses, or something. 

Good solves turning out to be bad: I'd suggest that this is caused by our minds blanking out bad elements of our solves - we hit a decent F2L, or a lucky LL, and forget that our cross was awful, or the first F2L case was preceded by a massive pause, etc..

Bad solves turning out to be good: I reckon this is down to the mental pressure we put ourselves under. You screw up the cross and think "what's the point, it's going to be a sucky time anyway"... no pressure any more, so you nail F2L and LL!

I'm sure there's some way we can use both of these things to our advantage - answers on a postcard please!!!


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## sneaklyfox (Jul 7, 2014)

pipkiksass said:


> I get this ALL the time. I think it would be interesting to commentate, then watch these solves back. You hear yourself saying 'this is good', but on the video you see massive pauses, or something.
> 
> Good solves turning out to be bad: I'd suggest that this is caused by our minds blanking out bad elements of our solves - we hit a decent F2L, or a lucky LL, and forget that our cross was awful, or the first F2L case was preceded by a massive pause, etc..
> 
> ...



I think it might in part have to do with two types of solves:
1. smooth flowing (usually because of good look ahead)
2. or fast with lots of pauses

In most cases the first one will win even when you're not actually turning that quickly. Though mostly, it's probably because we don't realize how long our pauses between cross and F2L or between pairs are. I could just be wrong though... maybe it's just a mental thing. I've had this kind of thing happen to me before, but it seems to happen less now. Sometimes I think my solves aren't great but end up pleased to discover it's somehow still sub-15 or better.


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## MarcelP (Jul 7, 2014)

sneaklyfox said:


> I think it might in part have to do with two types of solves:
> 1. smooth flowing (usually because of good look ahead)
> 2. or fast with lots of pauses



I think you are spot on. The other day I said here to Mark, that my good solves are when I have the most focus. That is when I have the most lookahead. And most of the times I just seem to have problems keeping that focus during a long session. So this weekend I decided to work on that. I did friday two Ao100's, Saturday 3 Ao100's and sunday 3 Ao100's. (roughly One early in morning, one at about 16:00 and one at 20:00). Last Ao100 on sunday was a PB. 


Spoiler



Generated By csTimer on 2014-7-6
solves/total: 100/100

single
best: 16.18
worst: 28.24

mean of 3
current: 21.58 (σ = 1.18)
best: 18.12 (σ = 2.07)

avg of 5
current: 21.02 (σ = 0.97)
best: 19.60 (σ = 0.59)

avg of 12
current: 21.61 (σ = 1.29)
best: 20.25 (σ = 1.69)

avg of 50
current: 21.21 (σ = 1.87)
best: 21.07 (σ = 1.71)

avg of 100
current: 21.25 (σ = 1.71)
best: 21.25 (σ = 1.71)

Average: 21.25 (σ = 1.71)
Mean: 21.25

Time List:
1. 18.99 L2 B2 R2 D' F2 U' L2 R2 F2 D2 B2 L' B U R2 D' B F' L D' R
2. 16.69 D' R2 U R2 F2 D2 B2 D2 U' F2 R2 B D' R' D' R U2 B' L2 F2 L
3. 21.20 U' L F U2 D' R2 B2 L2 B' R' U D F2 U B2 L2 U2 B2 U2 B2
4. 21.03 R' L2 B L F2 R' F D' F U F2 L2 U2 B' U2 L2 B' R2 F' U2
5. 22.90 B2 U2 R B2 R2 D2 R B2 L2 D2 U2 B F2 L' B U B' F2 R' U
6. 21.46 F D' R' L' F2 D' L D' F' U' D2 L2 F2 R U2 L B2 L U2 B2 R2
7. 20.45 F U2 F U2 L2 B2 D2 B' R2 D2 U2 L' D R' U2 B L' B' R2 U' F'
8. 20.50 L2 B2 R2 D2 B L2 U2 F U2 B D U2 F2 U' L U' R U2 R' U R
9. 23.44 R2 B2 F2 D2 R2 D F2 R2 D L' U2 B' D' B' R D2 L' B R
10. 20.90 R2 U2 L2 D2 F' U2 B R2 B L2 D' L B' D' B R2 D R2 F R
11. 19.99 U2 B L2 R2 D2 B R2 F R2 F' L2 U' F2 R D2 L' D2 F L' U L2
12. 19.62 F' U2 B R2 D2 F R2 B' F2 D2 F R' D2 U R U' L2 B2 F U2 L2
13. 23.04 D2 L2 F2 U F2 U L2 F2 L2 D' L' U F' D2 F D' R2 B' L2 U' R2
14. 22.88 L2 F R2 U2 B R2 B' U2 B' D2 U L D2 F R' D' U2 B D2 F
15. 19.12 U R B2 R2 F D' L' B2 R F2 D' R2 L2 U' B2 R2 D2 F2 D' L2
16. 22.88 U' R2 D' U L2 F2 U L2 F2 D L' U2 R2 B2 F R2 F' L' B F'
17. 19.25 B2 D B2 D R2 U' B2 U2 L2 B2 D' R' F L' D2 U' F' L2 R F U'
18. 20.05 D L F U F' U2 F' L2 B' U R' F' R2 D2 F' L2 F D2 F B L2
19. 21.52 D2 F2 L' D2 R U2 R' B2 L' F2 U2 B' U R B D2 U2 B R' U F'
20. 28.24 U2 R2 U' R2 D' R2 U L2 U' F2 U R' B' U' B D F' L' B' D
21. 18.14 R2 F2 R2 B2 U B2 D' L2 D L2 R2 B' L D2 B2 D2 L' R2 U L' R2
22. 24.16 D' L2 U2 R2 F2 U' L2 F2 R2 D2 F L F2 U B' L2 D' L' D U2
23. 22.19 F U2 L2 B F2 L2 B D2 B2 D2 U F D U L2 F2 L2 R D U
24. 23.95 U2 B' F' D2 F U2 B' L2 D2 F' D' R2 D B' R' D U' L B2 R2 F'
25. 19.92 B2 U2 R D2 L' F2 D2 L B2 L' D' R2 B2 L F L2 B L B R2
26. 22.88 D2 F2 D2 F' U2 B U2 L2 F2 U2 F2 R' D' F' L' F U B2 U F
27. 23.98 B2 D2 F' L2 B L2 R2 B2 U2 F U F' U' R B L' D' B' L2 B2
28. 22.23 F2 L2 U' R2 D' B2 U2 F2 L2 F2 D F' R F R F L2 U2 R2 F R'
29. 19.18 F2 U' R2 U B2 D' L2 F2 D' R D2 F L' F D U' L2 B' U
30. 23.87 L D R U L F2 U' D L2 B' U2 L2 D' R2 B2 L2 B2 L2 U' R2 D
31. 18.50 U2 L2 B2 F' D2 B R2 B' L2 F L2 U' L D' U2 L2 F U2 R' B' U'
32. 21.23 L2 U F2 U2 L2 D' R2 D' L2 F2 R2 B L2 B R' F' L2 B' L' U R2
33. 18.43 D' F2 R2 U2 F2 D L2 R2 F2 L2 U' L U2 F L' B' L B' D F' D2
34. 20.27 B2 F2 U' R2 B2 D2 U' L2 U' F2 D R B2 L F' R U2 L2 U F'
35. 21.68 L2 D2 U' L2 D B2 U F2 R2 F2 U' L' D' F L2 U F R' U' B2 L2
36. 16.87 D2 B' R' B R' B' U' R' B R2 B2 D L2 B2 U2 D' L2 F2 D R2
37. 21.01 F' U2 R2 U2 B2 U2 R2 B L2 D' F2 R' F2 U2 R U F L B2 U'
38. 20.42 F' L2 D' R' U L' U2 D B' L F' D2 F' D2 B' D2 B L2 F2 D2
39. 23.17 R2 B' D2 F2 U2 B L2 R2 B' R2 B D R2 D L B' F' L' F2 R
40. 20.71 D L2 F2 R2 U B2 U2 L2 U' B2 D2 F' L' B L B U R B2 D' F2
41. 23.19 B' R U B' L F U D' B2 R2 B2 R D2 F2 R' D2 R' D2
42. 20.99 L2 D' B2 D2 U' R2 D' U2 R2 B2 U2 L' B2 D L' B D2 L' F D2 L2
43. 20.87 D' L2 U2 F B L' D' F R B R2 L2 B2 U2 B2 U B2 L2 U B2 U'
44. 24.50 B' U2 L2 U2 F2 U2 F' U2 F U2 B D' B D2 L' B2 L2 U R' D' L2
45. 21.31 U2 L' U2 B2 R D2 R B2 L D' B2 F' U' F2 D B F' R2 F
46. 22.36 R2 U2 B2 F2 U2 R D2 F2 L' B U' F2 D2 R2 U B' L' R' D'
47. 21.49 U2 L B2 U2 R F2 D2 L U2 L2 U L U' F2 D' B' R2 F' D'
48. 21.66 L F2 B2 D2 B' U' R2 D2 B U' F2 R2 U2 F2 U2 B2 U B2 R2
49. 21.87 D B2 D F2 L2 R2 D F2 U' F2 U2 B L' U2 F2 U' R2 B F2 L2 D'
50. 20.61 U' L U R U2 B' D' B' R' B2 L2 D2 R2 F L2 F U2 B'
51. 24.00 L2 D B2 F2 L2 F2 U' R2 D' F2 D F R B2 D2 U F2 U' B' D R2
52. 18.91 L2 B2 L2 D F2 L2 U B2 L2 U2 B2 L F D2 U2 R2 U' L' U' F' U2
53. 21.01 B2 F2 R B2 D2 R' D2 L' D2 F2 L2 U F2 D' R' F' R' D' L F L2
54. 22.87 R D2 R' D2 U2 R D2 L' F2 D2 L F D' B L2 R2 B2 L' D U2 B'
55. 18.83 U2 F U2 B2 L' B' D' L' U2 F L D2 L' U2 R' F2 L' F2 R F2
56. 20.45 D' F2 U2 L2 B2 F2 U' R2 U' F2 R F R' D2 R2 B U' B' F' L'
57. 22.96 F2 L2 F2 R F2 D2 R F2 R B2 D L' D2 U2 R' B U L B2 U
58. 24.39 F' U R D' B' R' U D B D B2 L F2 L U2 B2 L2 D2 B2 L D2
59. 21.12 L2 R2 B2 L2 F' D2 F' U2 F D2 R2 D' U L' D F' L D R B'
60. 22.96 F2 L2 D' F2 L2 U' F2 D U2 B2 U B L' F R' U B' L2 D U
61. 18.44 L B' R' D' R2 F R2 F D' R2 F' R2 B' L2 B D2 R2 F2 D2
62. 17.15 B' R2 F' D2 L2 R2 B L2 F' R2 B2 U' R F' D L2 B2 F L' F2 U
63. 25.04 U B2 L2 R2 U F2 L2 D2 U' L2 U' L' D' B D' F' D L F2 D
64. 22.64 R F R D2 F2 L D' B' D' B D2 B2 U2 R2 B' D2 B R2 B2
65. 21.67 U R2 L2 B' L D2 B' D R' L' D2 F' R2 U2 D2 R2 B' R2 B
66. 16.34 B2 U2 B2 F2 L2 D2 F2 D R2 U' B' F2 L2 B' L D B R' F D2 R2
67. 17.63 L' U2 B2 R' U2 B2 L B2 D2 R F2 U L R2 B D L R' D2 L2 R2
68. 20.40 B' L D' F' L F' U F' U R' F2 L2 D2 B R2 F' R2 U2 F2 B D2
69. 20.83 D B2 U L2 R2 D' F2 D2 B2 U B2 R U F2 D2 L2 F U' L' D2 B
70. 25.79 L2 D B2 U F2 L2 U L2 F2 U2 B L' U B2 L R B D2 L2 B F
71. 22.13 R2 F' R2 B' U2 F' D2 B2 D2 F' R2 U' L' F' L' B2 F2 R' F' U2 R2
72. 19.95 B2 U' B2 U2 B2 D2 L2 U' L2 R2 D2 B' L2 B' L D' F2 L' R F' U
73. 18.80 D F2 L2 R2 U' F2 D2 F2 L2 F' R B2 U2 L2 U' B2 D' L F
74. 20.81 D' L2 D' F2 U' R2 F2 L2 F D2 L' D' R B' L2 B2 U B2
75. 23.35 F2 D2 U2 L2 B' L2 U2 B R2 B' L B R2 B L D' L2 R' D B
76. 20.08 D2 U2 F2 L' B2 L2 D2 R' D2 R U F' D L D2 U' F' U' B2 U2 R
77. 18.56 B2 R F2 L2 F2 D2 L' R2 F2 R' F2 D B2 L U F U R B' L' F'
78. 25.49 U B2 D2 L2 U' L2 D R2 B2 U' B R U2 R B' U B' F' R2 U'
79. 18.77 F2 D' L2 U R2 D R2 U' F2 D B' D' U' B2 R F U' B2 L2 D'
80. 21.28 D2 B2 U2 L2 F2 U2 F2 D B2 L2 B2 L F2 L B' F' U B' F' R2 U2
81. 19.68 R2 D2 R U2 R B2 L2 F2 D2 U2 R B R U' R' F' L U' R2 F2
82. 22.87 D2 B2 D R2 F2 L2 F2 U' F2 U B' L' R D F L D U B D2 U2
83. 20.11 R' B' U2 L' D B L' F B2 R U' F2 U2 R2 B2 U L2 D' R2 D F2
84. 19.75 R2 F2 D2 B2 L' F2 U2 L' F2 L' D' L' B F2 L2 U L' F U R F'
85. 23.20 D F2 D2 R2 D L2 U' B2 L2 F2 U2 R' F' D2 B' L R B2 D' F2
86. 16.18 U2 L' F2 L U' F R' D L F' L2 D L2 D2 R2 D R2 U L2 B2 D'
87. 18.95 L2 U2 B2 L2 R2 U2 F' L2 F2 U2 F R' U' B L2 U2 L' D U L2 U2
88. 24.48 F2 L' F2 L2 U2 B2 F2 L D2 R2 F2 D' L B2 R' B F' R' D2 F
89. 24.28 L D2 B2 L B2 R' U2 L D2 L2 D2 F' L B2 D B2 R2 F D' U B
90. 21.22 F U2 L2 B' R2 D2 L2 U2 B U2 R' F R U2 B' R D F2 D R
91. 25.43 D2 R' B2 U2 R' D2 L B2 D2 L2 D2 F D L B D2 R' U R2 U'
92. 21.16 F2 L F2 U2 L U2 L' D2 R' F2 R2 F D' F' D' B U' L F L2
93. 20.18 D2 R L' D2 B D' R' D L2 F2 L2 F2 D2 R2 F2 U2 F2 U2
94. 22.87 R2 F' R2 U2 B2 U' R' L2 B U2 B2 U2 R D2 R' F2 R' L2 B2 R'
95. 20.93 B R' U' F' R L' D R U F U2 B2 R2 D2 R B2 R U2 L' D2 F2
96. 20.36 R2 F2 D' L2 D L2 U2 R2 F2 U' L' B R2 B D B2 F2 L'
97. 20.57 B D2 F' D2 L2 R2 F D2 F' D2 F U' B D R' U' B' D2 B U'
98. 22.13 U2 R' D F L' F2 R' B L' D' F' U2 R2 B2 U2 R2 B R2 U2 L2
99. 20.23 U2 B L2 F' D2 B2 D2 L2 U2 F' U2 L U F2 R' D2 B L B2 U B
100. 22.40 B2 L F2 L' D2 L' F2 D2 L R2 U2 F U' R' F D2 R' B R F2



No, real good solves and no real good averages. Not even a sub20 Ao12.. but PB Ao100. I tried my best at keeping focu at all times. Planning all crosses completely and keeping track of one corner during every cross. StdDev 1.7

Today, After being completely fed up from work I had the energy to do only a Ao50. Big difference.. 


Spoiler



Generated By csTimer on 2014-7-7
solves/total: 50/50

single
best: 15.04
worst: 28.05

mean of 3
current: 21.78 (σ = 2.00)
best: 17.83 (σ = 2.42)

avg of 5
current: 21.67 (σ = 0.80)
best: 18.91 (σ = 0.18)

avg of 12
current: 21.61 (σ = 1.50)
best: 19.71 (σ = 1.86)

avg of 50
current: 22.13 (σ = 2.36)
best: 22.13 (σ = 2.36)

Average: 22.13 (σ = 2.36)
Mean: 22.07

Time List:
1. 22.18 U' R' U' R2 B2 U' D2 L D F' B' R B2 U' D2 F R D R L B' L D F' L2 
2. 26.51 L' B' L' U' F R D' F R2 L' U D' F L D L' R U2 R U' R D L' D R 
3. 23.48 L2 U2 L U2 D R' L' U L' F2 U B F' L' D' F2 L2 F R2 D2 U R' U2 B2 D' 
4. 22.16 F B2 U2 L2 F' R' D B U' R2 B' U D' F' B2 L R2 U' L' D' U2 B2 F2 D' F 
5. 25.21 B D L' R2 F' B' R2 F2 D' F' L2 R2 U L2 B U' L2 R B F' R L2 U' R F' 
6. 19.10 F U' D2 F R2 B2 D B' F' U B L2 B' R U2 D2 L' U2 F U2 R D2 U' B' L 
7. 23.22 B F' U2 R U F' U R' D F2 B R D R2 B' L' R U B' R F B U2 R D 
8. 26.78 B2 R2 U2 L2 R D' U' R B' U R2 F B R' L D' R L U' F' D' U F' U' R 
9. 26.78 R2 D B F D' L R' B' R' F B' U' F2 D' R U2 B2 R2 D' F' D R D2 R2 D2 
10. 26.12 F L R D2 B' L B' F D2 F' L' R2 F' L U' D' B L F' R' D L R' B' R2 
11. 18.70 L2 R B' U B2 L B2 U D' B2 F' R2 D2 F U L' B2 L2 F U L' D R' B' U 
12. 25.35 D U R2 U2 D2 L' B D' F' D R D2 R' U2 B F U2 R' D' B F L2 F U' L2 
13. 26.88 R' L2 D B D2 F' R L F2 L F D U' R' L' D' R2 L2 U L F2 D' L F' D 
14. 22.73 R' B D' L2 U D F2 D L D R' D' B2 R U' B' R F2 U2 L R2 D F2 U' R' 
15. 21.35 L F U2 F U2 F2 B R2 F L' B2 D2 R2 D2 U2 B2 L2 D2 F' D F2 U' R B2 R 
16. 24.82 R' D F' U2 B2 U2 L2 F D2 F' U2 F U B2 D' R2 F' R' L' F' B' R' L U2 B2 
17. 23.36 F L' B' L' B' U2 D F' R U2 B R2 D2 L' U' F U2 F' U2 L' B2 F2 R B' F2 
18. 22.08 F' U L2 F' U' R D' B2 D U2 F U2 B' D2 L2 U2 F D2 L' F2 D U' B2 F' L2 
19. 18.72 F' R' U' R' U2 F2 U' B U' L' B' F' U2 D' R2 U2 D B L2 B F2 L2 B2 U2 B 
20. 18.70 F2 L2 B L' U' D L2 R B2 F U' L2 R2 F R2 L F U' F D' F' D' F R2 F 
21. 18.95 D2 L F' U' R2 L D2 F D2 F D' L2 U' B' D2 F D B2 L2 B2 L' U R U F 
22. 19.07 R B2 L B2 R2 U' R2 U2 F R' D' L2 R' B F' D B U L' F L' B' U R2 B2 
23. 22.96 F2 B2 U D B2 L F2 L U B' L' R2 D2 U' B2 F D2 U' B R U2 F' U D R2 
24. 25.46 R2 B2 R D' U2 R' F2 B' U2 L2 U2 L R2 F' L D' B' D2 F2 L2 D' R' D' B U2 
25. 25.06 B2 L' F2 L F B L F2 R2 L F' L' R D' B D2 L2 F' U2 F' R' L D F2 L' 
26. 22.82 F' B2 U D2 L2 R' U' F2 R2 F L' B' L' B' D R' F R2 U2 L' F' L' U' L2 R2 
27. 26.06 D2 R L' F L' F' R U' B F' R' L' B D U2 L2 D' R L D F' D B2 U B 
28. 16.97 U2 L R2 U F2 U' R2 U' L2 U2 D L' D' R' F' U F2 D2 R L U' B2 R F U 
29. 21.32 R' F L' U' R L U F' D' R' F R2 B L2 U' L2 D2 L' D2 U' L' U B' F D 
30. 20.43 U2 L D2 B' L' R2 D B2 R' L' F L U L2 B' L2 R2 F2 U2 R2 B' F R' B2 L2 
31. 21.62 R' D' U' R' U2 R2 D2 U F R2 F2 U2 F L B' D' B' L' F' U2 B R B F L' 
32. 20.39 U2 D R D' L' D L B2 F D2 R' B' D' L2 D2 R2 L2 F U' L D' U2 B' U' F' 
33. 20.78 R' F' R2 L2 D2 L2 B' L' R D' B2 D2 R F' D R' D' U F B R B L F L' 
34. 16.11 D' B' L' R2 B' D' F U L2 B F2 D2 B D' L' D2 L F2 L U B F' D2 L' U' 
35. 22.65 B' U2 L F B2 D2 B2 D2 L2 B F2 L2 B D2 F2 R U F D L' B L F2 U2 R' 
36. 21.06 L' F' L2 F D2 F D U2 F2 D2 B' U' F2 B2 U2 D F' L R' F U' F2 L R2 U2 
37. 19.12 R2 U' L B' D2 L2 D U' F2 R2 U R L U2 F2 R F2 U B D' R D2 U' L B' 
38. 19.33 U D' R' L D F B' L' U' F' D L U2 L' B L R U2 B2 D' R2 D2 U L2 B2 
39. 15.04 F2 D2 R' B' R U' L2 F U' B U' L F' U' F' B2 U' D' L' B' F D2 F2 B2 R' 
40. 19.43 F L2 U' L R' F' R' B L' D' F' D' B2 R2 F2 L2 R' U L F2 U2 F' D F U2 
41. 20.59 B' D R U2 D2 R L2 U' D' R' B2 D2 F' U F2 R2 D' U R2 F' B2 D2 U2 B2 F' 
42. 21.73 L U F L' B2 U D2 L2 U' B2 R' F R D' U F' D2 L2 B L2 B' U2 D B' F 
43. 23.76 B' L' R' D' F2 L2 R F2 D' R' U' D' R L2 F2 U2 R2 U F2 L2 U2 B' F2 L' U' 
44. 22.48 D2 F' L2 B' D2 F2 D' U2 F U L2 B2 D' F' L2 F2 B2 D' L2 R D' R2 U2 F2 D 
45. 28.05 F2 U B2 U D' R2 B D L2 D L U' B U2 L2 F2 D' L2 U' D' B2 R L B2 D 
46. 20.75 R' D B2 L' R D' F2 D' L' R' D B U L R2 B2 L' D2 L R' U2 D' F' D2 U2 
47. 22.01 F B2 D U L2 R2 D B2 R2 B' F2 U2 F L U' F D' L2 R2 B2 U2 D2 L D' U2 
48. 19.59 B' L U2 L U D L F R D2 R2 D2 R2 F' L U2 R' F B2 D2 L' F R F' L2 
49. 22.24 F R' U' B R L' B' L2 D' L' F' B R U L' D' F2 U2 B' R' B F2 R D2 B 
50. 23.51 L' B R U D' B R2 L' B' D2 L2 B' U2 L' U2 B2 L R2 U' F' R B U2 L F'


Here I did not focus, not plan every cross completely, but just solve as fast as I could. Result, overall bad. but great singles, great Mo3, great Ao5 and great Ao12  But stddev 2.3


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## Rocky0701 (Jul 8, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> I think you are spot on. The other day I said here to Mark, that my good solves are when I have the most focus. That is when I have the most lookahead. And most of the times I just seem to have problems keeping that focus during a long session. So this weekend I decided to work on that. I did friday two Ao100's, Saturday 3 Ao100's and sunday 3 Ao100's. (roughly One early in morning, one at about 16:00 and one at 20:00). Last Ao100 on sunday was a PB.
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> ...


 Awesome job on the ao100 PB, it as about time that you beat it again. I can't believe that your best single was only 16 though. Very good consistency!


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## Gordon (Jul 8, 2014)

Finaly I managed to record some solves again.
Here is an average of 5.

[video=youtube_share;7u1TdTD_9v8]http://youtu.be/7u1TdTD_9v8[/video]

I'm quite happy with this times but also see that improvement in cross and lookahead is possible. 
The long time to recognise the PLL in the first solve is not normal. I first thought it's a G-Perm. Luckily I saw that it was an A-Perm before doing the G...


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## MarcelP (Jul 8, 2014)

Gordon said:


> Finaly I managed to record some solves again.
> Here is an average of 5.
> 
> [video=youtube_share;7u1TdTD_9v8]http://youtu.be/7u1TdTD_9v8[/video]
> ...



The video break down after the first few seconds.. Please re upload or something since I am really curious about your progress. I saw your swseet sub 25 entry in the weekly contest  I know Gordon is going places these days.. LOL


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## MarcelP (Jul 8, 2014)

Rocky0701 said:


> Awesome job on the ao100 PB, it as about time that you beat it again. I can't believe that your best single was only 16 though. Very good consistency!



Thanks. I had a few cups of coffey to stay tuned in all the time. This weekend I will try to repeat the amount of Ao100's


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## Gordon (Jul 8, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> The video break down after the first few seconds..



Strange, I watched it a few times in different browsers, logged in or not, it works for me...
I will anyway reupload it as soon as possible.

Anybody else cannot see the video completly?


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## h2f (Jul 8, 2014)

Gordon said:


> Strange, I watched it a few times in different browsers, logged in or not, it works for me...
> I will anyway reupload it as soon as possible.
> 
> Anybody else cannot see the video completly?



I can see it. It looks fine.


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## Rocky0701 (Jul 8, 2014)

h2f said:


> I can see it. It looks fine.


I can see it too.


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## Gordon (Jul 8, 2014)

anyway. Here's the raw video: http://youtu.be/KHw4giVrj1A
I hope it works for you too, Marcel.

Edit: damn me, the upload is not complete yet...
Edit 2: Now it's uploaded...


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## sneaklyfox (Jul 8, 2014)

Gordon said:


> anyway. Here's the raw video: http://youtu.be/KHw4giVrj1A
> I hope it works for you too, Marcel.
> 
> Edit: damn me, the upload is not complete yet...
> Edit 2: Now it's uploaded...



Nice, Gordon. I half watched your video while doing some solves of my own. y2's are ugly... you did one on the last solve. Interesting that on your A perms you do a last R2' instead of R2. Yeah, still got pauses in F2L to get rid of. Otherwise, really nice!


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## MarcelP (Jul 8, 2014)

Gordon said:


> Strange, I watched it a few times in different browsers, logged in or not, it works for me...
> I will anyway reupload it as soon as possible.
> 
> Anybody else cannot see the video completly?


I could watch it at home. Very nice and deliberate turning. If you could manage to keep that style with a slight higher TPS you would be sub 20 in no time.


----------



## Gordon (Jul 9, 2014)

Yes, I see that I can do much improvement in F2L. Not only in looking ahead for the next pair, but also to solve some pairs easyer.
For example this:


10461394944000 said:


> 0:18 green orange pair can be set up with L U' L' instead of doing U' L U' L' U' R' U2 R U y' L' U L
> 1:40 same thing, instead of U' R U' R' U R' U2 R U2 R' U R you can do R U' R' U R' U' R


I guess I have to find some algs for some few cases, expecially for the ones where the two pieces are connected to each other. I maybe know 5 of them, but probably only use 3 in solves...
I think I should give Marcel's Alg Trainer a try. (Just didn't use it until now, because I have no java installed on my PC)



sneaklyfox said:


> [...]Interesting that on your A perms you do a last R2' instead of R2.


I just tried it with R2, it ablosultley doesn't work for me


----------



## MarcelP (Jul 9, 2014)

Okay, yellow crossers.. knock your self out (my 6th solve of the day):

6. 14.80 F D2 R2 B R2 F' D2 F' D2 U2 F2 L D' B U R' B L F2

Full step but so nice because few move X-cross


----------



## Gordon (Jul 9, 2014)

Great!

If I would get a time like this, I would freak out, get drunk, sell 30% of my cubes, forget all algs and be at the same level as before... 

Realy nice. I'll try the scramble as soon i'm out of horseshit and have a cube in my hands.


Good luck for this evening, kick out the ones that kicked out Swizerland!


----------



## MarcelP (Jul 9, 2014)

Gordon said:


> Great!
> 
> If I would get a time like this, I would freak out, get drunk, sell 30% of my cubes, forget all algs and be at the same level as before...
> 
> ...



LOL!! Yeah I hope they win. Although I am no soccer fan, I am chaufinistic (sp?) enough..


----------



## Gordon (Jul 9, 2014)

I'm no soccer fan either. ( just have seen three games so far) I just support Swizerland and everyone that beats Germany. Nothing against Germans, I just dont want them to win


----------



## mark49152 (Jul 9, 2014)

As an England fan, I would love to see Netherlands beat both Argentina and Germany. Bring it on.

Brazil v Argentina would make for a wonderfully uncomfortable 3rd place play off too


----------



## Gordon (Jul 9, 2014)

True words.


----------



## MarcelP (Jul 12, 2014)

I was planning on doing many timed solves this weekend. Unfortunatly it did not come that far  It is such nice weather that we went swimming. I just did my first timed solves of this weekend and had PB Ao50. I do not really keep track of Ao50's but I am sure I have never got this low. No time to continue to 100.. 



Spoiler



Generated By csTimer on 2014-7-12
solves/total: 50/50

single
best: 16.84
worst: 25.34

mean of 3
current: 21.66 (σ = 1.79)
best: 18.39 (σ = 0.42)

avg of 5
current: 22.18 (σ = 0.89)
best: 18.77 (σ = 0.44)

avg of 12
current: 21.24 (σ = 1.38)
best: 19.52 (σ = 1.00)

avg of 50
current: 21.09 (σ = 1.58)
best: 21.09 (σ = 1.58)

Average: 21.09 (σ = 1.58)
Mean: 21.12

Time List:
1. 20.10 D2 B D2 B' L2 B L2 F' D2 F' R2 U B' R2 U F' R B R2 U2 
2. 23.63 F2 D2 R2 D U2 L2 U B2 U' R2 B2 F' L2 B D' F L' B' F' U 
3. 22.86 U2 L' U2 L' R' B2 U2 L2 U2 L B2 U F2 L B' D' F2 D2 R' B2 F2 
4. 23.05 R2 B' R' F D' B' U2 D' B L' F2 U' B2 U R2 D L2 D R2 U R2 
5. 20.48 U' R L F R2 U' D2 L' U R2 F2 L B2 R2 D2 L D2 B2 R2 
6. 20.12 U B2 R U2 L' D2 B D F' L' B2 L2 U' L2 B2 U' L2 U' R2 L2 
7. 22.63 R2 F2 R2 B2 U2 B D2 R2 F R F' D' B U2 L U' R D2 R' 
8. 24.55 F2 L2 D' B2 R2 U' R2 D2 U R B2 D2 B2 F' R D L' U2 B 
9. 25.34 U' L2 B2 F2 D2 L2 D B2 D2 L R2 B' L' U' L D' R D' F 
10. 20.54 R2 U L2 U2 R2 U' R2 U' F2 D' U2 F L R' F' L B U R' U2 
11. 23.14 D B2 D2 U' F2 L2 U' B' R' B' R' D2 L R D R U 
12. 21.00 R U2 B2 R U2 L2 F2 L F2 R' F2 U' L R2 D' R2 B F2 L' R2 U2 
13. 21.15 R U2 D2 F2 B' L U R' U D2 R L2 F2 D2 R U2 F2 R F2 
14. 22.33 B2 D L2 D B2 U' R2 B2 L2 U' L2 F' D F' D2 F' R U' B2 F' 
15. 19.90 B2 L2 R U2 R F2 R' B2 D2 B2 R' D' B F L' F R U2 L F' L' 
16. 25.33 U' L2 U L2 B2 U' F2 L2 B2 L2 U2 F L' D U2 B L2 U' B F' D 
17. 19.75 B2 D' L2 F2 L2 U2 L2 U' R2 B2 D' B D B2 F L R2 D' R F L 
18. 21.39 U2 B2 L2 B2 F' D2 F' D2 F' U2 L B' L2 F' D L' U' B' F2 L' 
19. 18.30 L2 F2 U B2 R2 D B2 F2 U' L2 F' U' R' B D B' L F L U' 
20. 18.03 R L F' R' L2 D' R' L' U R' F' D2 B' D2 F' U2 D2 L2 B' U2 R2 
21. 18.85 F2 U' L2 U' R2 D B2 D2 F2 U L D2 B L' D' R2 D R2 F2 U2 F' 
22. 22.08 B2 R2 B2 D' L2 D R2 B2 U2 L2 F' R U2 L' F2 R2 B' U' L2 D 
23. 19.17 U F2 D U' F2 D' R2 F2 R U2 R2 U F D2 R U2 B' R' 
24. 20.48 L2 B L2 R2 B D2 F R2 U2 F D2 L' U L F2 D' B2 F' R' D' F2 
25. 19.82 F2 R2 B2 D' L2 U2 B2 R2 U L2 F2 L U' F' R D' R2 D' F' R' D' 
26. 17.93 U' B2 U L2 U L2 R2 B2 D B2 F2 L U F' R' B' D2 R' F' D B2 
27. 19.78 L' U L F R2 B2 R' B' D' R U R2 U D2 L2 F2 U D2 B2 R2 
28. 19.60 D2 L2 D' R2 U2 B2 U' F2 D' B2 L F' R2 B2 L' F U R' D2 F' 
29. 22.56 L2 R2 D' R2 F2 D2 F2 D U B2 L2 B U' R F L B' F L' R U' 
30. 22.77 D L' F D F2 D F' L' F' R2 D B2 U' L2 B2 L2 B2 U L2 D 
31. 22.15 B' R' L F D L' F' U F U' F' L2 B L2 D2 F D2 B U2 L2 D2 
32. 23.95 D2 B2 L B2 R' F2 R2 U2 B2 L U' L' R' F' D' F R B R2 
33. 16.84 R B2 U2 L D2 R' D2 R B2 U2 R' B D2 L' F U' R2 B' R2 B' 
34. 22.12 D2 L2 U2 B2 D B2 D L2 U2 L B' F' R D2 U L' R U R 
35. 19.05 U' L F' B R' L2 D B U R D F2 D2 B2 U' F2 D' B2 D2 
36. 22.73 D' L2 F2 L2 F2 D U2 R2 D' F2 U' B' D' F2 D' L' D2 R U' L2 F2 
37. 19.44 L2 U L2 F2 D' B2 U F2 D2 B2 D L D2 F' D' U' R2 F' L' D' F 
38. 18.82 U' D L2 F2 B R' U' L' F' R2 B2 R U2 R' U2 R2 B2 D2 F2 R 
39. 22.45 U R2 F' D2 R B' R B' D R F D2 F' R2 B R2 L2 D2 L2 B' D2 
40. 22.07 R' B R D' F B U' B2 L U' B2 D' R2 B2 U2 F2 U' F2 D' 
41. 18.83 B2 D' L2 U B2 U R2 U L2 U B2 F' U R' U L D L2 B2 
42. 19.93 F2 U2 R2 D' L2 R2 D2 U' F2 U' B U F L2 B' L U' R' U' B U2 
43. 22.46 B2 F2 L B2 R2 B2 R B2 U2 F2 U2 B L' U F' U' B2 D R2 B2 F2 
44. 19.93 B2 R F2 D2 R2 D2 L U2 B2 L' D' B L' R F U F2 D2 B F2 
45. 19.47 D L2 F2 U' L2 D' L2 F2 U' R U2 B D B2 L' U' R D2 F' 
46. 22.90 B2 U2 L2 U2 R2 F R2 B' R2 B' U2 R F U' L2 U2 L' F D' F L 
47. 21.15 U2 L2 B2 U' L2 D' U' R2 U B2 F2 L D2 L R' D F' U' L2 
48. 19.59 L2 B R' F' U2 L F2 U' F B U2 L' U2 D2 R D2 R L D2 B2 R' 
49. 22.62 F L2 D2 F' R2 B2 R2 U2 B' F2 L' U B' F' D' L' U' B' D R' B' 
50. 22.77 U' F2 U L2 B2 U F2 U' B2 D U L' U2 L D2 F D B' L' B' L'


----------



## mark49152 (Jul 12, 2014)

Marcel, I thought your ao50 was faster than that. We are very close then! My PB is 21.04 so that gives you a new target . (Usually I'm at least half a second slower though, I was just having an on-fire day.)


----------



## MarcelP (Jul 12, 2014)

mark49152 said:


> Marcel, I thought your ao50 was faster than that. We are very close then! My PB is 21.04 so that gives you a new target . (Usually I'm at least half a second slower though, I was just having an on-fire day.)



Nice! And what was your best Ao12 and Ao5 in that? I think you are faster than me overall now. I do not always have low 21 averages.

EDIT, I just saw in this post (http://www.speedsolving.com/forum/s...m-Holland-here&p=995026&viewfull=1#post995026) that I have had faster Ao50's.


----------



## mark49152 (Jul 16, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> Nice! And what was your best Ao12 and Ao5 in that?


Bao12 = 19.93, bao5 = 18.89. This was on June 17.

Last night I did an ao100 of 22.32 with bao50 = 22.03, which is pretty poor for me - my worst session since May, except for my recovery period after vacation. My hands felt clumsy so I switched from Shuangren to Aolong. I very rarely change cube. The session didn't improve. 

However, it often seems that a crappy session is a precursor to an awesome PB-crushing session, so today I did another ao100 in my lunch break using Weilong. Smashed every PB except single, and wiped almost a second off my ao100 . Cubing carnage! Ao100 = 20.58, bao50 = 20.34, bao12 = 19.48, bao5 = 18.59.


----------



## MarcelP (Jul 16, 2014)

mark49152 said:


> Bao12 = 19.93, bao5 = 18.89. This was on June 17.
> 
> Last night I did an ao100 of 22.32 with bao50 = 22.03, which is pretty poor for me - my worst session since May, except for my recovery period after vacation. My hands felt clumsy so I switched from Shuangren to Aolong. I very rarely change cube. The session didn't improve.
> 
> However, it often seems that a crappy session is a precursor to an awesome PB-crushing session, so today I did another ao100 in my lunch break using Weilong. Smashed every PB except single, and wiped almost a second off my ao100 . Cubing carnage! Ao100 = 20.58, bao50 = 20.34, bao12 = 19.48, bao5 = 18.59.



That is so cool! I have still my 21,25 as my best Ao100. But I had a 20.69 Ao50 yesterday  The last week I have not been able to do as many solves as I would like. And when I have time to cube I do Megaminx  That is a fun puzzle. After watching Antoine C beginner video I can now solve completely without notes on paper. The permute of last layer egdes can I do intuitivle now. Orienting corners and permuting corners just like 3X3 cube beginner method.

It is about time you post some solves here in the topic on video. I would love to see your solves Mark.


----------



## mark49152 (Jul 16, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> It is about time you post some solves here in the topic on video. I would love to see your solves Mark.


Yeah it is, but I doubt I will ever get around to it. I've never uploaded any video, don't even have an account, and haven't got time to figure it out.

I can't get the hang of Megaminx. For some reason I find it hard to hold and I keep dropping it


----------



## sk8erman41 (Jul 16, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> And when I have time to cube I do Megaminx  That is a fun puzzle. After watching Antoine C beginner video I can now solve completely without notes on paper. The permute of last layer egdes can I do intuitivle now. Orienting corners and permuting corners just like 3X3 cube beginner method.
> 
> It is about time you post some solves here in the topic on video. I would love to see your solves Mark.



Nice! I am glad to see that you picked it up and are enjoying mega. I just recently got into it myself and think that it is helping other puzzles as well.

Also, I agree, would love to see some footage Mark. Nice job on the PB's!


----------



## MarcelP (Jul 16, 2014)

Today I received my new cores from the Gan III 57 mm. I have filmed it (rendering now). The cube is so much more stable. It is amazing. After the video I did an Ao12. It was sub 20.  The sub 20 Ao12's have been rare last few days..



Spoiler



Generated By csTimer on 2014-7-16
solves/total: 12/12

single
best: 17.46
worst: 22.56

mean of 3
current: 21.12 (σ = 1.08)
best: 18.22 (σ = 0.33)

avg of 5
current: 20.17 (σ = 0.61)
best: 19.20 (σ = 1.49)

avg of 12
current: 19.85 (σ = 1.36)
best: 19.85 (σ = 1.36)

Average: 19.85 (σ = 1.36)
Mean: 19.87

Time List:
1. 17.95 U2 R' L2 B' U2 D R2 D R' U F2 D' F2 B2 D2 L2 D R2 L2 
2. 18.59 U2 B2 D2 L2 B2 U2 B U2 B' D2 L' D2 B F' U' R D' U' B2 
3. 18.11 R2 D B2 U' L2 D2 L2 F2 U' B2 F' D2 F L F D' L2 B2 R' F' 
4. 20.90 F' B2 L' D2 B' L' D F2 R L2 B L2 F R2 U2 R2 F D2 R2 B 
5. 22.56 L2 F2 D F2 L2 F2 R2 D' R2 D2 B' F2 R D' L' D2 F' L U L' 
6. 19.98 F2 L2 U F2 R2 U R2 D2 R2 F2 D2 L F U' B D' B L B' U' F' 
7. 20.06 F R2 U2 R2 U2 B' U2 B' R2 D2 F' L D2 F2 U2 F R' F D U B' 
8. 17.46 F2 R2 U2 L D2 R' B2 U2 L2 D2 L D' B F2 D U' B' F L' R F' 
9. 19.50 B D2 L2 B2 D2 R2 B' R2 F2 U2 R' B2 D2 F D' F' L2 D U2 R' 
10. 20.33 B2 U2 F' L U' D B' R2 U2 L' U B2 L2 D' R2 B2 D B2 D F2 
11. 22.35 L2 D' B2 D' L2 D2 U' F2 D' B' R' F L' B' U R U R U' R2 
12. 20.69 D2 R2 B' L2 F U2 R2 D2 B' L D2 B' L R2 B2 U B R2 D2


I would definatly say this has potention to become my main.. We'll see..


----------



## Schmidt (Jul 16, 2014)

If only I had (x amount) of (something) every time you have said that


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## MarcelP (Jul 16, 2014)

Schmidt said:


> If only I had (x amount) of (something) every time you have said that



LOL.. Yeah.. but lately it has been nothing but AoLong. The downside of AoLong is that they become gummy after few thousand solves. No matter how good you clean them out and even wash springs and washers.. the cube will never become fast again..


----------



## MarcelP (Jul 18, 2014)

I have been getting bad averages whole week.. 

But with some very nice singles.

This evenings 4th solve:

4. 14.80 L R2 B2 R2 U2 B2 D2 B2 L U2 R' D' B2 F2 L' F L' B' L F 

z2 // inspection Yellow U, Green F
U' L D' R' F2 y' U' l' U l // (10) cross.. pfttt.
D2 y' U' R U' R' U R U R' // (10) 1th pair
U' L' U L // (4) 2nd
y U R' U2 R U' R' U R //(9) 3rd
y L' U L y' U R U' R' // 4th (9)
Sune // (7)
U2 (1)
Ua-Perm// (9)
U2 (1)
58 moves is only 3.9 TPS.. what???? I figured it must have been TPS...

EDIT:


Spoiler



Ahhh a sub 20 Ao12 again. they are so sweet..

Generated By csTimer on 2014-7-18
solves/total: 12/12

single
best: 14.80
worst: 27.02

mean of 3
current: 21.11 (σ = 0.63)
best: 17.18 (σ = 2.84)

avg of 5
current: 20.91 (σ = 0.30)
best: 17.63 (σ = 1.07)

avg of 12
current: 19.97 (σ = 2.11)
best: 19.97 (σ = 2.11)

Average: 19.97 (σ = 2.11)
Mean: 20.12

Time List:
1. 18.41 U' R' U' F B2 U F U' F R U F2 R2 F2 D' L2 B2 U' D' F2 B2 
2. 23.48 B' R' U2 R F U R2 D' R D L2 U D L2 F2 D' F2 R2 F2 U 
3. 20.33 U L2 F2 L2 B2 U L2 U F2 U' R2 B F D R' B' U R' U2 L' B2 
4. 14.80 L R2 B2 R2 U2 B2 D2 B2 L U2 R' D' B2 F2 L' F L' B' L F 
5. 16.40 F2 U R2 D2 B2 U' R2 D' B2 L2 R2 B R' D2 B' R D R2 F L 
6. 27.02 L2 F' D2 U2 F' R2 B2 R2 D2 F' D2 U' B' R' B2 F U' B L R 
7. 18.11 B R U2 L U L F2 D B R B2 U' L2 D2 R2 F2 U2 D L2 D R2 
8. 18.37 B2 L2 D' U2 L2 D B2 U B2 D2 L' D B2 F' D L' B2 L2 U2 F R 
9. 21.26 R2 B' U2 L2 B2 R2 B R2 U2 F D2 U L R' D' L U B2 R' F2 D 
10. 20.80 F U F R' D F D R2 B L D2 B2 D2 R F2 R' F2 L B2 
11. 20.68 U2 F2 D2 R2 B2 R2 F2 U' L2 D L B2 D2 F U' B' L2 B2 U2 R D 
12. 21.83 B2 L' D L' U B2 U B2 R D' R2 F' U2 D2 F' L2 U2 F' U2 F' U2


----------



## mark49152 (Jul 18, 2014)

Another PB bao50 - 20.31. This Weilong is really making a difference now I have put some time in on it


----------



## MarcelP (Jul 18, 2014)

mark49152 said:


> Another PB bao50 - 20.31. This Weilong is really making a difference now I have put some time in on it



Nice, the 14.80 was also on a Weilong (V2). From all the cubes I have the Weilong is the one feel the best about taking to a competion. I get my best times with AoLong normally. But they get so slow and gummy after a few thousand solves. Weilongs stay super fast. In fact, I over lube all my weilongs on purpose to slow them down. The best thing about AoLong is that I do not need to turn accurate. Weilongs requires more accurate turning. The Gan III 57 with new core is also very sweet. I did about 200 solves so far and I have had some sub20 Ao12's. But for now I think it is too fast and uncontrollable.. Man, I wish I was as fast as you..


----------



## mark49152 (Jul 18, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> From all the cubes I have the Weilong is the one feel the best about taking to a competion.


Yeah I'm not sure why I've been getting better times on it. I don't like the feel as much as the ShuangRen. I lose control of it sometimes - overshooting, etc. - but maybe it catches less than the SR. It could just be that I've taken another leap in improvement and would be getting the same times on the SR. I've done loads of cross and F2L practice recently and I guess that's paying off.

Is the WL2 any different to the WL1?


----------



## MarcelP (Jul 19, 2014)

mark49152 said:


> Is the WL2 any different to the WL1?



Yes, the V2 is much more controllable. I have several V1's and I do not like one of them. 

I think the cube was holding you back. I would stick with Weilong if I where you


----------



## mark49152 (Jul 19, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> Yes, the V2 is much more controllable. I have several V1's and I do not like one of them.
> 
> I think the cube was holding you back. I would stick with Weilong if I where you


I'll get a V2 then. I have a couple of AoLongs with different lube/tensions and they are pretty good too. The ShuangRen has been my main for over a year but its time is over. The stock Moyu stickers are good enough as well, so no messing around with those.


----------



## MarcelP (Jul 19, 2014)

mark49152 said:


> I'll get a V2 then. I have a couple of AoLongs with different lube/tensions and they are pretty good too. The ShuangRen has been my main for over a year but its time is over. The stock Moyu stickers are good enough as well, so no messing around with those.



You will not regret it. I have 4 V2's (one white, two black and one stickerless (pink)) and they are all great.


----------



## mark49152 (Jul 19, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> You will not regret it. I have 4 V2's (one white, two black and one stickerless (pink)) and they are all great.


AoLong v2 is on sale. Any thoughts on that yet?


----------



## MarcelP (Jul 19, 2014)

mark49152 said:


> AoLong v2 is on sale. Any thoughts on that yet?



I ordere two of them just to be sure.. LOL 

People say cube does not matter untill you reach sub 15. I think that is the biggest crap there is. Especially for the 'fast turn challengd' like you and me. If I swicth to anything different than Weilong, SuLong, AoLong or DianMa I do not get averages below 25 seconds. Only AoLong and Weilong take me to sub 20 averages.


----------



## Gordon (Jul 19, 2014)

I did an avg of 5 a few days ago with an original rubik's. Just for curiosity. I had one low 26, one complete fail-solve and the three counting ones around 28 - 29 seconds. 

The strange thing is that such an average also can happen with my WeiLong and is only around 4 seconds slower than a good avg of 5 for me. 

I think I do much more pauses on faster cubes than on slower ones, but on them I turn slower so the times are similar 

Thats probably also the reason for my relatively good official times. I was nervous, turned slower and had better lookahead 

So I would say that at the moment different cubes have different sympathies for me. And this makes the most difference in times.


----------



## MarcelP (Jul 19, 2014)

Gordon said:


> I did an avg of 5 a few days ago with an original rubik's. Just for curiosity. I had one low 26, one complete fail-solve and the three counting ones around 28 - 29 seconds.
> 
> The strange thing is that such an average also can happen with my WeiLong and is only around 4 seconds slower than a good avg of 5 for me.
> 
> ...



I think you should always turn slow if that helps your times  Eventually you will speed up since recognition will become faster.


----------



## mark49152 (Jul 19, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> I ordere two of them just to be sure.. LOL


I wish Moyu would sell as DIY, or at least lube their screw spring assemblies.


----------



## MarcelP (Jul 19, 2014)

mark49152 said:


> I wish Moyu would sell as DIY, or at least lube their screw spring assemblies.



HKNow does clickertheclick (I think the 'Plus' stands for V2, also it is listed under new arrivals.. so..)


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## mark49152 (Jul 20, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> HKNow does clickertheclick (I think the 'Plus' stands for V2, also it is listed under new arrivals.. so..)


Have you tried them? I read somewhere that the pieces are already assembled and stickered, as if all they do is unscrew a factory-assembled cube. Is the core brand new and unthreaded?


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## MarcelP (Jul 20, 2014)

mark49152 said:


> Have you tried them? I read somewhere that the pieces are already assembled and stickered, as if all they do is unscrew a factory-assembled cube. Is the core brand new and unthreaded?


Now that you mention it, yes my first AolOng was from HKNow and it was a DIY. The core was allready assembled. I do not like DIY. I like opening a box and get a perfectly tuned cube from it  That hardly ever happens, except with GAN III 57 cubes..


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## MarcelP (Jul 20, 2014)

My second (full step) sub 15 in two days:

94. 14.56 F' B2 D F U2 R' B2 R2 F D2 B2 R2 U' D' R2 D B2 L2 F2 U2

x2// inspection Yellow U blue on F
R' U' L2 U' B2 D2 // cross
R' U' R y' U L' U L //1st
R' U R // preserve pair, but concentrate on another pair
R' U R2 U' R' // second, and now do preseverd pair:
U2 L' U' L //3rd
U' R' U' R U2 R' U R //
OLL
PLL


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## mark49152 (Jul 20, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> Now that you mention it, yes my first AolOng was from HKNow and it was a DIY. The core was allready assembled. I do not like DIY. I like opening a box and get a perfectly tuned cube from it  That hardly ever happens, except with GAN III 57 cubes..


Generally I find Moyu and YJ cubes are very well set up out of the box, except for the annoying spring noise. If it wasn't for the spring noise I would leave them alone. With my last AoLong, I tried to push some lube under the screw head without taking the screws out completely, and it worked OK. I just had to loosen them a few turns.


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## MarcelP (Jul 20, 2014)

mark49152 said:


> With my last AoLong, I tried to push some lube under the screw head without taking the screws out completely, and it worked OK. I
> just had to loosen them a few turns.



I always spray a tiny bit silicone spray between screw and plastic and turn screw 360 front and 360 back.. Works like a charm.. No noise on springs any more..


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## mark49152 (Jul 20, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> I always spray a tiny bit silicone spray between screw and plastic and turn screw 360 front and 360 back.. Works like a charm.. No noise on springs any more..


Yeah spray would be easier. I only have Traxxas - maybe I should get some spray.

Edit: Got my first sub-5 ao12 cross+1 this morning. 4.83. Definitely improving


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## MarcelP (Jul 20, 2014)

mark49152 said:


> Edit: Got my first sub-5 ao12 cross+1 this morning. 4.83. Definitely improving



Very nice!! What you do is working  

The other day when Gordon said when he turned slow he got better times got me thinking again. My times where becomming so bad lately.. Friday night Ao100 23.xx Arghhh Mother.... Cursing at 23/24 solves.. LOL.. Then I figured out what has changed in my solves.. I have been (unintentially) speeding up on TPS.. So I have been trying to slow down again.. And it worked immediatly... Just finished Ao100 21.39 (which is pretty close to PB) with nice last 12 solves:


Spoiler



88. 20.47 F2 L B D2 B' D' F' L' B' D' R2 D2 B2 R' F2 U2 F2 U2 L B2 R2 
89. 21.87 D2 F2 R2 D2 L2 D2 F D2 U2 B R B' D L D F' D' R2 D L2 
90. 22.70 B U' B' D F' L' U R2 U R2 B' U2 L2 D2 B' R2 F U2 F' D2 
91. 19.88 R2 F2 L' D2 R2 B2 L' B2 U2 B2 F L' D B2 U L2 B R F2 D 
92. 21.47 D2 U2 F L2 R2 D2 B' F' L2 F2 R D2 B U' L' U2 L' D' L D' L 
93. 14.56 F' B2 D F U2 R' B2 R2 F D2 B2 R2 U' D' R2 D B2 L2 F2 U2 
94. 18.63 R' F2 R' B2 U2 R2 U2 R2 F2 L B2 U' B' U' R2 D' L D2 R U F' 
95. 19.08 F D2 U2 B' D2 F D2 U2 R2 B' F2 U' F D2 R' U2 L' B' D2 L 
96. 18.34 U2 L' R2 U2 F2 U2 B2 R' B2 U2 R D' L' B2 R B F2 R' D2 U' 
97. 19.40 U' B2 R2 U' R2 D' B2 D B2 R2 D R' U' L F' D B2 R' B2 L2 R' 
98. 18.38 B' L2 U2 B R2 D2 F' U2 F' U2 B R' F' L R U' F D' L U2 F' 
99. 21.21 L2 F2 R2 U2 R2 U' F2 U L2 D' B2 R' U F' L2 B D R2 B2 U' R' 
100. 17.47 L U2 R2 B2 R' B2 L' B2 D2 U2 R B' D2 F' L U' B2 L' B F



When you have 20.xx Ao50 Mark, most of your solves are sub 20 right? That must feel magic? I want to be at that stage..  most of my solves are sup 20, and I compensate with 17's and 16's between 23 - 24 solves..


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## mark49152 (Jul 20, 2014)

Nice, yes I find the same. It feels like better composure and focus.



MarcelP said:


> When you have 20.xx Ao50 Mark, most of your solves are sub 20 right? That must feel magic? I want to be at that stage..  most of my solves are sup 20, and I compensate with 17's and 16's between 23 - 24 solves..


My last session was 65 solves average 20.52. That broke down as follows: 15=1, 17=6, 18=6, 19=10, 20=17, 21=12, 22=7, 23=2, sup-23=4.


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## MarcelP (Jul 21, 2014)

mark49152 said:


> Nice, yes I find the same. It feels like better composure and focus.
> 
> 
> My last session was 65 solves average 20.52. That broke down as follows: 15=1, 17=6, 18=6, 19=10, 20=17, 21=12, 22=7, 23=2, sup-23=4.



Nice distribution! I bet the 15 must have felt nice. Any close to PB (or was it the 15.34?) is nice


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## MarcelP (Jul 21, 2014)

PB Ao50, on a white Gan III with new core.



Spoiler



Generated By csTimer on 2014-7-21
solves/total: 50/50

single
best: 15.24
worst: 28.64

mean of 3
current: 23.15 (σ = 2.31)
best: 18.87 (σ = 0.84)

avg of 5
current: 22.74 (σ = 2.04)
best: 18.87 (σ = 0.84)

avg of 12
current: 20.87 (σ = 2.92)
best: 19.92 (σ = 1.22)

avg of 50
current: 20.93 (σ = 2.00)
best: 20.93 (σ = 2.00)

Average: 20.93 (σ = 2.00)
Mean: 20.96

Time List:
1. 23.17 B2 R2 U L2 D2 U' R2 D' U2 L D F' D U R' F' R2 B' U 
2. 19.77 B2 U D' R' F' B2 U F L' B2 U F2 B2 R2 F2 L2 D 
3. 20.28 B2 U' R2 U2 L2 U' B2 D F2 D2 B R2 F2 L2 D L D' U2 
4. 19.98 R L' U' R2 L2 D' L' D B U L2 U' L2 D B2 L2 F2 B2 D' 
5. 21.23 F' L U' F2 R2 U' R U2 R L2 U2 B U2 R2 F' R2 D2 B' R2 F' 
6. 19.05 L2 U F2 L2 U B2 L2 U' L2 U' L2 B L2 U R F' L' R D2 B U' 
7. 20.21 R B2 U2 R2 B2 D2 F2 L F2 R' D2 B' L' F L' F2 D' R B' F' D2 
8. 25.67 U2 R2 D2 F2 L2 F L2 D2 R2 F U' R' B' D2 L R' D' F U F2 
9. 18.96 R2 F' R2 B' D2 L2 R2 F L2 B' F2 U' L2 R2 F' D L R D' R U 
10. 22.67 B2 D R2 D2 R2 B2 L2 U' R2 U L2 B' U2 B2 F' U F' L D' R B' 
11. 21.08 U2 F U2 B' R2 B D2 F2 L2 U L R' F D' U2 R D' L R 
12. 18.93 F2 U2 B2 R2 U2 L2 U F2 U' F2 D' F R' F2 U R F2 U L' B2 R2 
13. 23.88 D2 B2 D2 L2 B' D2 F R2 U2 F2 L2 R' F' R D2 B F2 D' F' R 
14. 21.65 R' D2 L' U2 R F2 L2 D2 B2 D2 L D L' F R B' F2 U' B D2 B 
15. 20.90 R2 D2 L2 D2 U L2 D L2 F2 D B D' B2 L' R' F' D2 L2 D' B 
16. 19.87 R2 B2 F' R2 F L2 F' L2 U2 L2 D L2 U F D L R2 U2 L 
17. 19.18 R2 F D2 R2 F2 L2 B D2 B' L2 D L' B L' U2 R2 B2 R' U R2 
18. 19.70 R2 F2 D' R2 D2 U R2 U2 R2 B2 D B' R U' R D' L B D2 F 
19. 20.32 R U' F' L2 F' R' U' L' B R D2 F2 R' L2 B2 R' D2 L' D2 
20. 17.08 L2 U2 R F2 U2 R' D2 L B2 F2 L' B L2 F' L U' L R' F2 U' F' 
21. 21.68 L2 D2 L R2 F2 U2 R D2 U2 L D' B F U R' F U2 F' U R 
22. 18.02 B2 L' F2 R D2 L2 B2 R' B2 L' D2 B' F' U2 R2 D' F U2 B2 L R2 
23. 18.91 R U B2 L B' D2 L' U' F B D F2 L2 D2 R2 D' R2 B2 D2 
24. 19.69 F2 B D L2 F' D B' R L F B2 L2 B L2 U2 F2 D2 F U2 L2 
25. 24.08 R2 L2 D' L2 D F' R' F2 R' U R2 U' L2 U2 L2 U B2 D F2 
26. 22.77 L2 R2 U L2 U' L2 B2 F2 D2 B2 L' F D' F2 R' B' D F2 U2 R' D' 
27. 20.94 U B2 D' R2 D B2 D B2 F2 D2 L2 B R2 U' B L F U L2 R' 
28. 20.73 B2 F2 D B2 R2 B2 D' R2 D2 U B L2 D' U' B2 L' B F D2 L' B2 
29. 19.14 B2 D F2 R2 U R2 B2 F2 D B2 U' R D2 R' F' U B' L B2 R2 U' 
30. 22.50 L' B2 R' F2 U2 B2 U2 L' F2 D2 L2 U' B' D2 L' R U' F D' F2 
31. 21.32 R2 U B' U B' L U' F' R' U' B2 R2 D2 L' D2 F2 L2 B2 R' F2 R 
32. 24.68 U2 B2 F2 L2 U L2 U B2 F2 R2 D2 B F' D R' F2 L2 R' U' L D' 
33. 23.42 F2 U2 F2 R2 F2 D R2 D' L B' D' B F' R B2 D' B D2 U 
34. 19.35 F' L' U' L2 D' R F' U2 L2 F' R' U2 F2 L' D2 R B2 L2 D2 B2 R' 
35. 28.64 B D F' B2 D B2 U F' B' R' F' B D2 B L2 F B2 R2 L2 U2 
36. 16.14 D2 B2 R' U2 B2 L' D2 R' B2 R2 F' L2 U2 L D' B2 U B D 
37. 20.45 L2 B' R L2 F' U2 B2 L2 U F R2 B' R2 B' D2 F' R2 F2 
38. 23.44 R2 B2 D2 B2 L' D2 L' U2 R' F2 L2 D' B' D' U' F2 U2 R B F U' 
39. 17.72 U2 B2 F2 D' L2 F2 U2 F2 D B' D2 R D B D U F R U2 
40. 20.10 B2 R2 F L2 F' U2 R2 F D2 F' R' D' U' F2 R2 B2 F' D R' F2 
41. 19.97 F2 R2 U' R L' F' B' U' R F' D F2 L2 D R2 U2 B2 L2 U' F2 
42. 24.28 R2 U2 L D2 F2 L R U2 R' D2 R' U' B' L2 F' R' B' L' F2 D2 F 
43. 23.76 F2 D2 R2 U B2 U2 F2 L2 F2 U2 F L U' L2 R U2 B F2 R U' 
44. 16.49 F' R U2 F U2 L F2 U' D' L B2 U R2 F2 U2 L2 U D2 L2 F2 U' 
45. 18.17 B2 U' B2 L2 U' B2 R2 D L2 B2 U' B' R2 D2 R' F2 L U2 R' F' U' 
46. 23.28 U F2 D B' L U' F L D R F2 U2 L2 U' R2 D F2 D B2 L2 
47. 15.24 L2 B U2 B F2 L2 B' D' R' F L2 R2 U2 B L2 D' R' 
48. 24.45 L2 F' D2 R2 U2 B2 F' L2 B2 L2 R' F' U' L' F' R2 U L' U2 R2 
49. 24.53 B' L D' F D2 R U' B' D2 R' D2 B2 R D2 L2 F2 U2 B2 U2 
50. 20.48 B2 D' F2 L2 U' B2 R2 B2 R2 D L' B L2 U2 B' R' U' R U' F'



Roughly

15: 1
16: 2
17: 2
18: 5
19: 8
20: 8
21: 5
22: 3
23: 5
24: 4
25: 1
26: 0
27: 0
28: 1

missed some.. but I had to count with bare eye 

EDIT: Ao100 21.22 PB by 0.03


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## Rocky0701 (Jul 21, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> PB Ao50, on a white Gan III with new core.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Nice PBs! It's cool to see that the majority of your solve were 19 and 20 during the ao50.


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## MarcelP (Jul 22, 2014)

Rocky0701 said:


> Nice PBs! It's cool to see that the majority of your solve were 19 and 20 during the ao50.



Yeah.. And I got a PB from Cubizh saying that csTimer has an option to show the distirbution in 'Tools'  Very cool..

And.. look at this 3rd solve of the day

3. 13.18 U2 B2 U2 B U2 R2 F2 U2 B2 R' B2 U2 L D F2 R2 U' B 

y2 // inspection
U F' R' y' U' R2 U R // XX-cross
y' L' U2 L // 3rd pair
y U2 F' U F U' R U R' // 4th pair
OLL
PLL


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## Schmidt (Jul 22, 2014)

He seems like a nice guy, giving some of his PB's away  (I hope it was a 4x4x4, because you need a new one )
As far as I can remember, it is not easy to export times from ppt to cstimer to get the time distribution.


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## MarcelP (Jul 22, 2014)

Schmidt said:


> He seems like a nice guy, giving some of his PB's away  (I hope it was a 4x4x4, because you need a new one )
> As far as I can remember, it is not easy to export times from ppt to cstimer to get the time distribution.



LOL.. PB PM .. I do not know what I am saying anymore..LOL I use csTimer exclusive now (as you might have picked up from video's)  You have that little tool window down right below in the screen showing a cube 2D. Well if you change the options you can show the distribution. Awesome stuff.







EDIT: Yeah I envy your 4X4X4 times. I see every week in weeklycompetiton you get faster and I get slower..


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## sk8erman41 (Jul 22, 2014)

I don't often do large avgs. but I had time today and did an Ao100. I am fairly certain that its my PB as the last time I did one was when I was averaging 25+ so I put it in my sig. Overall pretty happy with it. I lost some consistency in a few spots but overall not too bad with a SD<10%


Spoiler: full stats



Generated By csTimer on 2014-7-22
solves/total: 100/100

single
best: 16.96
worst: 29.17

mean of 3
current: 20.02 (σ = 3.20)
best: 18.66 (σ = 1.67)

avg of 5
current: 21.06 (σ = 2.23)
best: 19.57 (σ = 1.15)

avg of 12
current: 21.52 (σ = 2.94)
best: 20.75 (σ = 1.14)

avg of 50
current: 22.16 (σ = 2.27)
best: 22.13 (σ = 1.95)

avg of 100
current: 22.46 (σ = 2.28)
best: 22.46 (σ = 2.28)

Average: 22.46 (σ = 2.28)
Mean: 22.51

Time List:
1. 19.85 L2 F2 D2 B2 D' R2 U' L2 D F2 U' L R F2 D' L2 F2 U B2 F' R2 
2. 18.56 B U D2 R' U2 R' F2 L' B' R L2 B2 R D2 B2 L' D2 F2 R' 
3. 20.21 U2 B2 U' R2 D' B2 R2 U' B2 U B R' U2 L' D U' B D' B2 F R 
4. 23.58 F' D2 U2 F D2 F2 D2 F' R2 B' D2 U' R F' D' L U' R D 
5. 25.31 R2 D2 F2 U2 R' U2 L' B2 F2 R' D2 B' F' R U B2 F2 L' U2 L R2 
6. 21.25 L2 D2 R' F2 D2 R2 F2 U2 L' U2 R B L2 U L2 D' F2 D2 L' U' 
7. 26.28 B U2 B2 L2 D' F' R' F2 U' L2 F' R2 B R2 U2 R2 D2 F' D2 L2 
8. 21.40 B2 F' L2 D2 U2 B' U2 B' D2 U2 L2 R' D2 U' L F' U2 F2 L D' 
9. 22.49 D L2 B2 D' U' R2 F2 U2 B U L2 B' L F U' R F' U' 
10. 27.20 D2 R2 B2 R2 U B2 R2 U' B2 L2 U' R' F2 D2 B U2 F D' B2 R D2 
11. 23.60 R2 F2 U2 D L D2 B2 U L' B U2 R2 L2 D' L2 D R2 D R2 F2 U2 
12. 23.60 U2 R2 B' D2 B' R2 B' R2 D2 R2 D' B2 R' B2 F' L U' B D' L' 
13. 29.17 B2 L2 F2 R2 D' L2 F2 D' B2 D B2 R' U L D2 B' L R F R' U' 
14. 28.00 D L2 B2 U' F2 U2 B2 F2 L2 U B' U2 L F' L' R' D U2 B 
15. 21.14 U' D R2 U B2 R D' R B' U F2 L2 U' B2 D' F2 D L2 U' D2 
16. 21.78 R2 D2 U2 B' D2 B' U2 F D2 B D2 U' B2 R B2 F2 R' U B' L' 
17. 20.76 R2 B2 L2 B2 D2 B D2 R2 D2 L2 B' U' R' B2 U2 B' R2 U L' B2 U2 
18. 24.11 U2 R2 F2 U' L2 U' R2 U2 F2 U L2 F' D L' F' D2 F' U' L2 D' L' 
19. 19.48 D F2 L2 B2 R2 D' U L2 U2 R2 F2 L' D2 F' L' U' R2 F L' D2 B2 
20. 25.98 L2 D' R2 D R2 U' B2 R2 D' R2 F' L U B' R2 U L U2 L2 D 
21. 19.33 U2 L2 F2 L' U2 L' D2 L2 U2 R2 F2 U' L2 U' F D L F' U B' U2 
22. 20.32 R2 F' D2 R2 D2 L2 B2 F' L2 U2 B2 D' R U2 L F' R' B' R D' L 
23. 23.17 U' R' F' D2 F' D F U2 B' R' F2 R2 F' D2 R2 B' R2 F D2 R2 F 
24. 20.24 D' B2 U B2 R2 U L2 B2 D2 B2 U2 L' B' F' L' F D' L2 R' F2 U 
25. 26.98 L2 F2 U' B2 L2 U' F2 U L2 D2 U' L' D' B U2 B2 R U' B L' R2 
26. 23.01 F2 D2 U' R2 F2 D U2 B2 F2 L2 R' F2 D U' F' D' B' L R U F' 
27. 19.94 R2 D B2 R2 U' L2 B2 L2 B2 U L' F L' R' B' D B2 L2 F' D2 
28. 18.38 L U2 L' F2 U2 R' B2 D2 R F2 R' U B' D F2 L U R2 F2 D2 
29. 27.74 R B2 D2 U2 L' B2 D2 F2 L' D2 U' L2 B U' L2 D R' B' L' U2 
30. 24.32 D' F2 D F2 D' L2 R2 B2 U L2 D' R U' F R2 U' R2 B' F' U2 F 
31. 21.83 L2 B2 R2 D' F L' B R L2 F' U' F2 D R2 U2 B2 D' F2 U R2 B2 
32. 20.07 L2 R2 B R2 B' R2 D2 F U2 L2 B' D R U L2 D F U B L2 F 
33. 23.30 R2 D2 L2 B' D2 U2 B' D2 F2 D2 R' B2 L' F' U2 R' B D F' D2 B2 
34. 21.57 F2 U' F2 L' B2 R2 B' R' F U' B2 U2 R F2 D2 R L2 F2 U2 L D2 
35. 21.96 B L2 F2 U2 B2 U2 L2 D2 F' D2 R U' R2 U2 B' L F2 D2 R2 B R 
36. 22.22 F2 R2 B2 L' D2 R' D2 F2 D2 L U' L D U2 R2 U B F U F2 
37. 23.78 U L2 D L2 B2 F2 U' B2 U2 F U2 L F D F2 U L2 R F L 
38. 20.13 D2 L2 B2 F' R2 U2 F' D2 R2 U2 B2 L R B' U' L' B D' L2 F' R 
39. 23.91 D2 U2 R F2 R U2 L' R' B2 U2 R' D L F2 L2 B F U' F' U2 R' 
40. 21.13 U D R' F' B' L B U B2 R L2 F2 U F2 B2 L2 B2 D' B2 U D 
41. 23.88 L2 D2 R2 F R2 F2 U2 B' R2 F' D2 U L D2 R' B' R2 B2 R2 F' L2 
42. 21.51 F' L' B' L2 D2 R U R' L U R2 B2 D L2 U2 L2 D R2 U F2 
43. 24.30 B' U2 B2 R2 B' D2 F2 D2 B' D R B L' U2 B' U' F' L U 
44. 26.44 L' D2 R' F D2 B' R F' R2 F2 U F2 B2 U2 D F2 B2 R2 
45. 22.28 L2 F2 U' L2 B2 U' B2 F2 U' F2 U' B F' L B' R U L' D R' U 
46. 25.61 L2 F2 D2 R2 D2 B U2 R2 B' F R2 D' L D2 L2 B F L U' R2 D' 
47. 26.53 F2 U' B2 D2 F2 U' B2 U L2 R U' L' F2 R D' B' L2 F' L' 
48. 21.26 F2 U2 F' L2 U2 F2 D2 B' U2 F2 R2 D' U F' R' U' F2 R B2 R D' 
49. 21.07 D2 B' R2 B D2 B R2 F' L2 B' R2 U' L' F2 L2 D' B' R2 B2 R' F' 
50. 20.81 L2 R2 D2 L2 R2 B D2 F2 U2 B' D L' U' L' D' R F' D2 L2 R' 
51. 19.44 L2 D' R2 D F2 R2 D' R2 U2 L2 U F' D2 L' U F' U' F U2 F2 
52. 21.94 D' B2 U' L2 D F2 L2 D L2 D' R U' R2 U B D2 B' R2 F' D 
53. 20.86 L2 R2 D' R2 D R2 U' B2 L2 U' B2 F' D2 R D F' D2 U' R2 F2 R' 
54. 20.99 B2 L2 F D' F2 D' F R' U2 L2 F' U2 D2 R2 B L2 F' D2 B2 
55. 23.07 R2 B' L2 U2 R2 U2 F2 R2 F' R2 D R' B U F' U2 F' D' U R 
56. 21.16 R2 U F2 U B2 F2 D F2 U2 R2 U R B2 R' B' F' R D' B F L 
57. 19.71 D2 F2 D' R2 F2 L2 U F2 U' B D F2 L' F2 U' B U R B 
58. 23.68 D R2 F2 D' F2 U R2 F2 D' R2 D' L D U R' F D U2 B F D' 
59. 19.93 U2 R2 U2 L' F2 L2 B2 L' D' R2 D' R' D' L B' R' B2 
60. 19.65 L2 D' B2 D' F2 D2 F2 R2 U' L2 D' R' U2 R' F' L' D2 B U2 L' R2 
61. 18.97 D2 F' L2 F' L' F2 U' D L' B L2 B2 U B2 U D2 R2 U2 B2 L2 F2 
62. 21.72 U' R' F2 B D L' F2 B2 D' L U' B2 D2 L2 U D2 B2 L2 
63. 27.84 D2 B' L2 B2 F' L2 U2 L2 U2 F L2 R U2 L' F R' D' B2 L R' U2 
64. 24.34 D B2 L2 U2 F2 R2 U' F2 U' B2 L2 F R' B' U' L' F L2 F R' D2 
65. 20.68 U R F B2 D2 F' L D' F' L F2 B2 D R2 F2 L2 B2 L2 U2 R2 L2 
66. 24.28 B2 R2 F2 U2 F2 D2 U L2 U' R' B R' F L' D R' B' D2 B2 
67. 27.19 R' F2 L' F B2 U L D2 B' R U B2 R2 U2 B2 R2 D L2 U L2 
68. 24.33 B2 D2 R' F' L F2 U D F B2 R2 L2 U2 B U2 F' D2 B L2 
69. 25.19 F2 U' L2 U F2 D F2 R2 U2 L2 R2 B F' L U F2 U2 L2 R2 F' L 
70. 24.77 U2 L2 D2 B' R2 B L2 D2 B' F' R2 U R U2 R B' U B2 D R' D2 
71. 26.68 U L' D F R2 L U D' F' R U2 D F2 R2 D L2 D' L2 F2 D' F2 
72. 25.09 R2 F R2 B' U2 F' R2 B U2 B D2 R B L2 U2 L2 U' F2 L' D' U' 
73. 22.99 D B2 L2 F2 R2 U2 L2 U B2 L2 U' F D2 U' R B' R2 U L D2 B 
74. 21.07 U2 L D2 R' D' F' R' B' L' F B R2 D2 R2 F2 L2 B' L2 F L2 
75. 25.89 L2 F2 D2 L2 U L2 F2 U' L2 U2 F2 R' F2 D' R B U' B R' F D2 
76. 26.18 B2 U' L2 D B2 D F2 U' B2 F2 D2 R F2 R2 F' R D B' U F2 U' 
77. 16.96 U F2 R2 F2 D' F2 D2 B2 U B2 U F U F R D' L' B' U2 R D 
78. 18.57 L2 R2 D2 U F2 R2 D' U2 B2 L2 U L D2 F' L' B F2 L2 U B2 F' 
79. 20.83 B2 L2 R2 F L2 B' D2 F2 L2 U2 R U' B2 D' R U L D' U B2 
80. 19.33 B2 L' F D' R' U F' U' F' D2 L B2 R' U2 L' F2 L D2 F2 R' 
81. 23.10 F2 D B2 U' B2 U B2 R2 U' L2 R D2 L B' L' U2 R' F R F' D' 
82. 21.21 F' L2 D2 F' U2 B L2 D2 B U2 F2 R D' L2 F' D' B' F2 R' F2 
83. 23.14 U2 F2 D' R2 U F2 L2 U2 B2 R2 D' F L2 R' F D U' L' F' L2 F 
84. 22.17 B2 U' L2 R2 B2 D B2 U2 B2 R2 D F L2 R2 B2 D' L D R U' 
85. 21.41 F' L2 F U2 L2 D2 F2 D2 B' U2 F' L' D2 U F' U R2 D' L' D' 
86. 21.15 F2 U F2 D F2 R2 D2 U B2 L2 D' L' F' D R2 U' B2 L D' B D 
87. 22.53 B2 U2 B' D2 B' D2 F U2 F R2 F R U' R2 B' D B' R' U' B' 
88. 21.02 F2 U2 L2 D R L' U B' U' F' D F2 U' R2 L2 B2 U2 B2 U' L2 U2 
89. 24.09 L2 R2 F U2 F R2 B L2 D2 F D B D' U L B' D2 U' B' R B' 
90. 20.42 F2 B D2 B' D' F U' R U' F' R2 U2 B' U2 R2 F L2 F' D2 R2 
91. 26.33 F2 L2 U F2 L2 R2 D B2 L2 U L' B R' F U2 B2 R2 D' L F R2 
92. 20.92 L2 U R2 B2 D' L2 U' R2 U' B2 L F D' R' D F' R2 B' R2 F2 
93. 28.47 D' R2 F2 U B2 F2 U B2 L2 F2 U R' U2 F L2 F' R D L' D2 U 
94. 18.46 D' L' D F' B2 U F' R' F L' D2 F2 L' D2 L' B2 R' D2 R B2 
95. 17.09 D U' L2 R2 U L2 D L2 U F2 L' R' U' L B' D2 U2 L2 D B' 
96. 20.41 L F U' B R L2 U2 R2 F B2 L2 U2 F2 B2 D' F2 D' 
97. 24.50 L2 F D2 F' D2 U2 L2 F U2 F' R2 U' F' L B' L D2 L' F' U' B' 
98. 23.54 B2 U2 F2 R B2 F2 R2 U2 R F' D' F2 R U F2 L2 R B U2 
99. 19.23 L2 D2 F R2 B2 D2 R2 U2 B' D2 B' L' R' B' R' U2 L2 R' D' L2 
100. 17.29 F2 D2 R2 U R2 B2 U' L2 D2 L2 R2 F D' R' D U2 L' D B2 U' F'





MarcelP said:


> You have that little tool window down right below in the screen showing a cube 2D. Well if you change the options you can show the distribution. Awesome stuff.


Awesome stuff indeed, I never noticed that before thanks!


Spoiler: distributions



16+: 3
18+: 15
20+: 33
22+: 20
24+: 15
26+: 12
28+: 2


----------



## Rocky0701 (Jul 22, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> Yeah.. And I got a PB from Cubizh saying that csTimer has an option to show the distirbution in 'Tools'  Very cool..
> 
> And.. look at this 3rd solve of the day
> 
> ...


I got a 13.26, I couldn't see the second pair in you xx cross in inspection, so I just did a 4 move x cross

my solution: 
y2 // inspection
U F' R' F' // x cross
y' R U' R2 U R // second pair
y' L' U2 L // third pair
y R U R' U R U R' // fourth pair

So pretty much the same except for the fourth pair. That was a fun solve!

I don't know how you get such good times right when you start solving, I average like a second slower than normal until I do like 20 solves to warmup.


----------



## Rocky0701 (Jul 22, 2014)

sk8erman41 said:


> I don't often do large avgs. but I had time today and did an Ao100. I am fairly certain that its my PB as the last time I did one was when I was averaging 25+ so I put it in my sig. Overall pretty happy with it. I lost some consistency in a few spots but overall not too bad with a SD<10%
> 
> 
> Spoiler: full stats
> ...


Nice! I made some 4x4 progress today BTW: ao50: 1:35.54, bao12: 1:31.40, bao5: 1:24.81, and beat my single by .03 haha.


----------



## sk8erman41 (Jul 22, 2014)

Rocky0701 said:


> Nice! I made some 4x4 progress today BTW: ao50: 1:35.54, bao12: 1:31.40, bao5: 1:24.81, and beat my single by .03 haha.



Very nice! time for a sig update


----------



## MarcelP (Jul 23, 2014)

sk8erman41 said:


> I don't often do large avgs. but I had time today and did an Ao100. I am fairly certain that its my PB as the last time I did one was when I was averaging 25+ so I put it in my sig. Overall pretty happy with it. I lost some consistency in a few spots but overall not too bad with a SD<10%
> 
> 
> Spoiler: full stats
> ...


Very nice! You have made tremendous progress! Keep it up and you will hit the sub 20 mark soon.


Rocky0701 said:


> I got a 13.26, I couldn't see the second pair in you xx cross in inspection, so I just did a 4 move x cross
> 
> my solution:
> y2 // inspection
> ...



I did not see the second pair but noticed it when I started to solve  And yeah, some times my first few solves are closer to 30 than to 20.I just delete the first few solves when that happens.. I was scrambling a cube for a few minutes while watching TV. So my fingers where warmed up when I started to solve 



Rocky0701 said:


> Nice! I made some 4x4 progress today BTW: ao50: 1:35.54, bao12: 1:31.40, bao5: 1:24.81, and beat my single by .03 haha.


Good stuff, I need to go practice 4X4 again.. In fact, I will start to day.


----------



## Rocky0701 (Jul 23, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> Very nice! You have made tremendous progress! Keep it up and you will hit the sub 20 mark soon.
> 
> 
> I did not see the second pair but noticed it when I started to solve  And yeah, some times my first few solves are closer to 30 than to 20.I just delete the first few solves when that happens.. I was scrambling a cube for a few minutes while watching TV. So my fingers where warmed up when I started to solve
> ...


Thanks! I'm glad I've inspired you haha.


----------



## sneaklyfox (Jul 24, 2014)

Question for you cstimer users... if you want to post times in "14.21, 11.56, 14.04, 14.63, 14.25, 17.22" format (comma separating times) for forum competition/race how do you do that easily?


----------



## PJKCuber (Jul 24, 2014)

Marcel is so popular.


----------



## MarcelP (Jul 24, 2014)

sneaklyfox said:


> Question for you cstimer users... if you want to post times in "14.21, 11.56, 14.04, 14.63, 14.25, 17.22" format (comma separating times) for forum competition/race how do you do that easily?



It does not have this option. I use Prisma Puzzle Timer for forum competitions.


----------



## Schmidt (Jul 24, 2014)

Options: statistics: uncheck "print scrambles".

list times: press the ao5/12/whatever: done!


----------



## sneaklyfox (Jul 24, 2014)

Schmidt said:


> Options: statistics: uncheck "print scrambles".
> 
> list times: press the ao5/12/whatever: done!



Thanks, Schmidt!


----------



## MarcelP (Jul 24, 2014)

Knowledgable guy that Schmidt


----------



## Rocky0701 (Jul 25, 2014)

PJKCuber said:


> Marcel is so popular.


He really is, this thread makes me wish I would've made an introduction thread when I started.


----------



## MarcelP (Jul 25, 2014)

Rocky0701 said:


> He really is...



Well I am really not  It's the participation of nice guys and girls that makes this topic fun. I do how ever get people come up to me at competitions from all countries saying 'Hey, you are marcel right?'.. I think that is pretty awesome.


----------



## TDM (Jul 25, 2014)

Rocky0701 said:


> He really is, this thread makes me wish I would've made an introduction thread when I started.


I made one and got one reply...


----------



## Schmidt (Jul 25, 2014)

TDM said:


> I made one and got one reply...


I tried to find it in the members introduction thread just to say hello, but when I got to page 10 and hadn't found it yet, I gave up 


Spoiler: Hello



Oh, you thought I would write something of great importance here? You already got a hello in the spoiler headline!


----------



## sk8erman41 (Jul 25, 2014)

Nothing overly impressive time wise, but my consistency is improving a lot which makes me happy. Check out the SD on this Ao25 I just did...

Generated By csTimer on 2014-7-25
solves/total: 25/25

single
best: 18.31
worst: 25.67

mean of 3
current: 23.07 (σ = 0.85)
best: 20.14 (σ = 2.93)

avg of 5
current: 23.55 (σ = 0.11)
best: 21.27 (σ = 2.49)

avg of 12
current: 23.20 (σ = 0.79)
best: 22.12 (σ = 1.82)

Average: 22.72 (σ = 1.18)
Mean: 22.55

Time List:
1. 20.76 F2 U2 F R2 D2 L2 D2 B2 F' R2 D2 R' F2 R F' U' L' U2 F2 R2 F 
2. 23.85 D2 L U' L B' U2 D B U' F2 B2 D R2 B2 R2 D' L2 U L2 
3. 22.04 B2 U L2 F2 U F2 U' B2 L2 B2 L U2 F L2 U' L2 D2 B' F' U' 
4. 22.14 L' D2 L' F2 D2 L' U2 L U2 R' D R U2 L2 B D' B F2 R2 
5. 23.29 B' L B' R L2 U' B2 L U' D2 L2 B2 L D2 B2 D2 B2 R D2 
6. 23.80 U2 L2 D2 B' U2 B R2 D2 F2 D2 F' L D2 L' B' R B2 R2 D' B' L 
7. 22.69 R B' D L F' L' U' L' D2 B' U' D' L2 F2 D B2 U' D' 
8. 19.59 U2 R2 B2 U2 L2 U F2 L2 U' L2 D B L U2 B2 D' U L F2 U2 B 
9. 24.19 D2 F' U' F U' L' U' R2 F D' R B2 L' U2 L F2 L2 F2 U2 F2 U2 
10. 21.71 L' B2 L' R2 F2 R F2 U2 R2 F2 R' B R' U L2 R' B' D' R' B F 
11. 23.52 R2 F2 L2 B L' F D2 B' U' F' D2 F2 D F2 U' R2 B2 R2 F2 D' 
12. 18.60 U' B2 R2 F2 L2 R2 F2 D2 U2 L' D' R' D' B2 F' U' B L2 U 
13. 18.31 F2 U R2 B2 U' L2 R2 D F2 U2 F L2 U B R' F' L' R2 F2 R2 U 
14. 24.15 D2 R U' D2 R2 F' U' B' L B D2 R' U2 R' F2 R' L2 D2 L U2 F2 
15. 21.70 F2 U' R2 B2 D' R2 F2 D L2 U2 F2 L' B D2 R2 F' D L2 U2 R D 
16. 23.87 U2 F2 R' U2 F2 U2 L B2 L R2 B2 U L U2 L D' B' L B F R' 
17. 25.67 B F2 R2 F2 D2 R2 U2 B L2 R D B' R' B2 D2 R B' L D' 
18. 23.34 F2 U2 F2 L' D2 B2 L B2 L' R' B2 U B2 F2 L' R' B' D F' 
19. 21.94 D2 B2 F2 L2 B2 F2 U' F2 D' L2 D F' U2 L D' R' D2 R' D2 B' U' 
20. 22.29 U2 L2 F2 U' L2 B2 D R2 U R2 B R' F2 D2 B' L' B' D F2 L2 
21. 23.67 U2 B2 R D2 F2 R B2 L2 F2 L2 U' L R2 F2 U B L2 R' F' U'  
22. 23.53 U R2 D F2 D' B2 U2 F2 D B2 U' R' D L' B' L F2 L R' F R' 
23. 22.10 B L' U R U2 B' D F' L' F' U2 B' L2 B' D2 L2 B2 L2 B 
24. 23.45 F2 L2 F' D2 F2 L2 R2 F' R2 U2 L D R' D B D' B F D' F2 L 
25. 23.67 B2 D F' L2 B' L' F2 U R' B D F2 D R2 F2 D R2 U' L2 D F2

18+: 2
19+: 1
20+: 1
21+: 3
22+: 5
23+: 10
24+: 2
25+: 1


----------



## TDM (Jul 25, 2014)

Schmidt said:


> I tried to find it in the members introduction thread just to say hello, but when I got to page 10 and hadn't found it yet, I gave up
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Hello
> ...


Hi, at least I got that much 
Bottom of page 13.
I've learned 12 OLLs since then...


----------



## MarcelP (Jul 26, 2014)

sk8erman41 said:


> Nothing overly impressive time wise, but my consistency is improving a lot which makes me happy. Check out the SD on this Ao25 I just did...
> 
> 18+: 2
> 19+: 1
> ...


Nice consistency. Keep it up.


----------



## MarcelP (Jul 27, 2014)

Bam!


Spoiler



Generated By csTimer on 2014-7-27
solves/total: 100/100

single
best: 15.55
worst: 28.53

mean of 3
current: 21.57 (σ = 2.21)
best: 17.63 (σ = 1.81)

avg of 5
current: 20.33 (σ = 0.59)
best: 18.69 (σ = 1.23)

avg of 12
current: 21.03 (σ = 1.47)
best: 19.41 (σ = 1.90)

avg of 50
current: 20.80 (σ = 1.59)
best: 20.36 (σ = 1.67)

avg of 100
current: 20.85 (σ = 1.87)
best: 20.85 (σ = 1.87)

Average: 20.85 (σ = 1.87)
Mean: 20.88

Time List:
1. 24.71 R2 F2 D R2 B2 D' R2 D' F' R U B F L' B' D2 R' U2 
2. 24.28 F2 L B U B' R F' R D' R L2 D2 B2 D2 L2 U2 B' U2 F' R2 F' 
3. 20.59 U D R' D2 B2 L2 F U R' F2 D2 R2 U2 F D2 B R2 F' R2 B2 
4. 19.74 R2 B2 U' F2 U B2 D2 F2 L2 F2 L' B' F2 R B F' U B F' R2 
5. 22.48 R2 U2 F2 L2 D2 F2 U2 R D2 U2 F2 D' L2 B' L F L' F' L2 D U' 
6. 19.21 D' R2 U' R2 B2 R2 B2 U' B2 F2 R' B' F2 D' U' F' L' R' D' U2 L2 
7. 19.74 D2 U2 B2 R2 B L2 U2 F R2 F' U2 L R B D U' R' F L U' R2 
8. 16.89 L F2 R2 U2 R' F2 L F2 R2 U2 B2 F' U R B' L B2 L2 R B 
9. 24.86 D2 B' U2 F R2 B2 U2 R2 F' D2 F' R' B D' R2 D2 B' R' F2 D' F2 
10. 22.35 D' L2 F2 L2 U' B2 F2 U' R2 D2 U B' D' B2 D2 L B L D L' D2 
11. 20.15 F2 R2 U2 L2 U2 F L2 B' R2 U2 F' L' D R B' R2 F' D2 L' R2 B' 
12. 25.02 D F' B R F L2 D' F' U R B2 R' B2 L' B2 R D2 L' F2 R2 
13. 18.11 B2 U F L' U' F' U' R F' R B2 R2 L2 D2 F2 L2 F2 B' U2 D2 L2 
14. 20.13 D2 R U B U2 R2 U F' B U2 F2 L2 U' R2 D' R2 F2 U2 B2 R2 
15. 23.69 U2 L2 B2 U F2 D B2 D' B2 R2 B2 L' F R' B F2 R2 F' U' R D2 
16. 19.62 U' F2 U B2 D' R2 F2 U B2 L2 D2 B' F' U' L2 B R' U2 F2 U' F 
17. 21.50 R2 U2 L' B2 D2 L' U2 R D2 L' F2 D F2 R' F' U R' U' F' D2 
18. 19.75 R2 U2 F2 D' U F2 R2 U F2 U F2 L F D' L2 R2 F L' D2 U' L 
19. 18.70 U2 F' D2 B2 U2 R2 B2 R2 U2 F2 L' D' R2 B2 L F D2 L F D 
20. 28.53 R2 F' R2 F' U2 B D2 F2 D2 U' L' F R' D' F2 U' B2 D' L 
21. 21.92 U' R2 B2 F2 D R2 U' L2 F L B F U' R2 B' R B F' R2 
22. 24.09 B' D2 U2 F U2 L2 F' R2 B' D2 F D F L2 D' B F' L2 U' R B' 
23. 19.91 B2 D' U' R2 D L2 U' F2 R2 B U2 R D F L B F U2 F' U' 
24. 19.70 L D L' U' B U2 F' R L U' R2 B2 R' F2 R F2 U2 F2 L' F2 R 
25. 22.59 F U2 D2 L2 U' R L2 B' L F2 U2 L2 F2 U' F2 U2 R2 U L2 D2 
26. 23.47 U' R2 F2 U R2 D' R2 U' F2 U' R F' D F' R' U2 R B' R' D 
27. 21.93 F2 U2 R2 F2 L D2 R' F2 R2 F' U' L2 R2 F2 D2 F L2 U L' 
28. 18.19 L B' U' L D' L' B2 L B L2 B2 L D2 R2 F2 R' B2 R2 F2 U2 
29. 18.73 L' F2 U2 R' U2 L' D2 B2 R' F2 R F' R' B F2 D F2 U' F2 U2 B' 
30. 21.47 U' F L U2 R2 U2 L U2 F L F2 U B2 L2 U2 L2 U2 D R2 F2 R2 
31. 23.07 L' F' D B' D2 L' B R D F B2 D2 B L2 F' L2 U2 L2 F 
32. 17.58 F2 R2 D2 U L2 D2 B2 U2 B2 L2 B U2 L B U2 F' R F2 D2 
33. 21.27 L2 U B2 F2 U L2 F2 U2 L2 D2 L2 F L U' R B2 F' U' L' B2 
34. 22.12 B2 U2 B2 D' R2 U' B2 U' L2 B2 L2 B' R U F U2 F' U' F L' 
35. 21.85 L2 R' B2 D2 F2 U2 L U2 B2 R2 B2 F U' R2 F' L' F L2 R' D2 
36. 20.06 B2 U' F2 R2 D U B2 U2 B L' R2 U' F D U' R2 B L 
37. 25.22 F2 B' L U2 R' B' D2 L2 B U' B2 D' F2 B2 D2 B2 D' R2 
38. 21.74 B2 R B U F' U2 F2 L2 D' L B2 U' L2 U' R2 B2 U F2 U' L2 F2 
39. 17.73 F2 L' D' L2 F U R D L2 B U B2 R2 F2 B2 U' R2 L2 U B2 
40. 23.14 F2 D' F2 D B2 D R2 U2 B2 U' B2 R' B F2 R2 D2 U L' R B2 F' 
41. 17.50 U' R L D2 L2 D2 F' D' B' R' F2 L U2 L2 F2 R' F2 L U2 D2 
42. 17.60 R2 U2 R2 D2 F' L2 B D2 U2 R2 D2 L' F' D2 L2 B' F' D' R' D' R' 
43. 21.56 D R2 U B2 U' B2 D2 R2 F2 R2 U L U' B U' B' F R' D' R2 B 
44. 22.78 F' R2 F L2 F L2 B' D2 B' U2 F2 R U2 F' U2 B D F' U' F2 U' 
45. 18.60 R U2 L' U' F' L' B' U' L D F U2 R2 F L2 F' R2 B2 L2 U2 L2 
46. 16.02 L2 F' D2 B2 L2 B D2 R2 B U2 L2 D R2 B R F2 D B U2 B F 
47. 20.65 F2 D2 L' D2 R' B2 U2 R' B2 R D' R2 U' F' U R2 D' F R' U2 
48. 17.51 D' L2 D2 F2 D2 R2 B2 D F2 R2 F D2 L' F U2 L2 D' L' F' R' F 
49. 19.97 F D2 F D2 F2 R2 B' D2 F' L2 F2 U F' U B2 L' U2 F D B2 R 
50. 20.25 F B U D2 B R F2 D L' U2 R2 D R2 F2 D B2 D' R2 U2 
51. 22.84 U2 B2 R2 U2 B2 R2 B' D2 B2 F2 L' B D2 U' F' D U2 L2 B2 F' 
52. 20.31 D' B2 R2 D U2 R2 D L2 R2 B2 U2 F' L' B' D2 U' L B2 L2 F' 
53. 20.08 F2 D2 R2 D B2 U L2 F2 R2 U' R' B U B2 L' F' U R2 F' U2 
54. 18.57 R2 U2 F2 U B2 R2 U' F2 U' B2 U R' U' R' U2 B2 R' B L R' F' 
55. 20.55 D B' L' B' L' D' L2 U2 L U L2 D F2 D' B2 L2 U' L2 F2 D 
56. 24.49 R2 B2 D' F2 B' U' L F' U B' U2 R2 F L2 B R2 U2 B' L2 B2 
57. 17.82 F' L2 R2 F2 R2 B U2 F R2 U2 F' U B2 U R B' R2 B F2 
58. 18.23 L D2 L2 U2 R2 B2 U2 F2 U2 R U L' U' R2 D F U2 L2 D F2 
59. 19.48 B2 D2 B' D2 R2 D2 F' U2 F D2 U2 L' D2 F' U' L R U2 B' U2 F 
60. 22.30 B2 U2 F' R2 F2 U2 B U2 L2 B' F' U B D' R' D2 L U' L R2 B 
61. 18.44 R L' D' F2 B' R' B2 R' B L' U2 F2 L2 D2 F2 D' L2 D B2 U' F2 
62. 19.86 B2 R' B2 D F R' F' U B' L D2 R' B2 L' U2 R' F2 R2 U2 
63. 19.52 B2 U' F2 U' F2 U L2 U' F2 U2 B2 L' D B' U F' L F L' D' U' 
64. 21.78 D R2 D' F2 U F2 U' B2 L2 U' R2 F D' B2 U L2 R' U' L B L2 
65. 18.45 U' F2 U' B2 D2 F2 U' F2 U2 B' R2 F2 L U B2 R2 U L2 B 
66. 24.20 R' B2 L U2 R2 D2 F2 D2 F2 L U2 B U' L D F2 L2 F R' F' R2 
67. 20.15 R2 B2 R' F2 R F2 R' U2 B2 F2 U2 B D' L' B D2 L2 F2 U' L2 
68. 20.30 B2 L2 U R2 D2 U' B2 F2 L2 D B R2 D' F2 D2 R F' D' U' L F2 
69. 22.85 R' U L2 D' B U2 F2 D' R L2 D2 B2 D' F2 B2 R2 U F2 B2 L2 
70. 22.07 R2 B2 F2 U' L2 D B2 L2 F2 U' B' L R2 U2 B F' R' F L R' 
71. 23.39 D B2 U L2 B2 R2 D' L2 B2 D2 U L' U2 B R2 F2 L F' U R' 
72. 20.47 B2 U F2 B D2 R' F' B L D L' D2 R B2 R' B2 U2 L' B2 R' D2 
73. 24.49 F B U B2 D2 L' U R' U2 B2 R2 L F2 R' F2 D2 L2 B2 
74. 19.02 R2 U2 R2 U' B2 U2 R2 F2 L2 D' F2 L' B F2 R U2 F' D2 L2 B L' 
75. 19.43 B' R2 D2 B2 D2 B' L2 F D2 B L F' D L2 R' F2 D B2 F' D2 
76. 20.66 F2 L2 F' U2 F2 L2 U2 B' U2 L2 B' D' R' U F' U L' F2 R2 F' L 
77. 23.52 D2 R D2 U2 R F2 D2 L D2 L U B' U' B L B' D' L2 F U R' 
78. 18.45 B2 F2 U' L2 U' L2 B2 F2 D' U B D L' U2 B U2 R D' L2 R 
79. 18.88 D2 F2 L2 R2 D' F2 U' L2 B2 F2 R2 F' R B' D L2 D' L2 R F' 
80. 15.55 B' U2 L2 B' D2 B' L2 U2 B2 D2 F2 U R U2 B D' L' D' B' F 
81. 20.87 F' U B' L B U2 L' B U R' L2 D L2 D B2 L2 D' F2 D F2 L2 
82. 21.40 L B2 L' U2 B2 F2 L' B2 D2 B F' L D U' B2 L' D U R 
83. 21.45 R2 F2 U L2 R2 D B2 U' B2 R2 F L' R B U2 F' R' D2 F2 L U2 
84. 20.71 D2 B2 D2 L2 B U2 L2 F' D2 F R' B R2 D' F2 D F2 L2 B' 
85. 22.35 U2 R' B2 F2 L R D2 R' B2 D2 B U' L' R F R' D' F2 R' U' 
86. 22.60 D2 F2 L2 D' B R' F' L2 U' L' F2 R2 D' R2 L2 F2 L2 B2 D R2 D 
87. 20.07 R2 B2 D' U2 B2 U B2 L2 F2 D2 L2 R' F D' B' U B' F2 R2 U' F 
88. 21.65 B2 R2 U F2 L2 U B2 R2 U' R2 D' F D' B' L F2 L D2 B' L' B 
89. 20.73 B L2 R2 F L2 D2 F' U2 F R2 F' L F' U R F' U2 L2 U2 
90. 16.14 F2 U2 L2 D' R2 D L2 D2 B2 U2 L' D' R' D' B R' U2 L' B2 U' 
91. 25.89 F2 L2 D2 R' U2 F2 L2 R' U2 L' D2 U F U2 R F2 U2 L U' R2 
92. 22.33 D2 R U2 R' B R U R' D2 L' F2 D2 F L2 F2 U2 L2 B' R2 F 
93. 21.30 F2 D B2 U' B2 U2 L2 F2 U' B2 R2 B' U' F2 R F U2 B' F' L2 R2 
94. 19.13 B' L2 U2 B2 U2 B R2 F' R2 D2 F U B' D' R D U' R D' L' B2 
95. 22.12 D2 B U2 R U' R' L' F2 U F U2 B2 R L F2 L' U2 L2 F2 U2 
96. 20.24 L2 U2 F L2 F L2 D2 F2 L2 R2 U' L D F2 L2 B' R2 D L B' F' 
97. 19.79 L' R B2 U2 L D2 F2 L D R B' D2 R2 D U F2 R F' 
98. 19.73 B2 U R2 B2 D F2 U2 L2 U' F2 D R D2 R' F' U2 R' B' L B' L' 
99. 24.02 R' L' D L2 B' R' D F' D' B L U2 F2 L' F2 D2 R' B2 R2 B2 
100. 20.95 D2 B U2 B' R2 U2 R2 F' R2 F L' U2 R' B L2 U' L2 F R' B


----------



## MarcelP (Jul 27, 2014)

mark49152 said:


> Have you tried them? I read somewhere that the pieces are already assembled and stickered, as if all they do is unscrew a factory-assembled cube. Is the core brand new and unthreaded?



I knew I have seen them somewhere. Looking at the pictures I see corner pieces that are 1/3 piece (meaning V2).
http://lightake.com/p/YJ-Mo-Yu-Weilong-3x3x3-Magic-Cube-DIY-Kit_m1492.html

But you probably allready ordered (or received) it


----------



## Rocky0701 (Jul 27, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> Bam!
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> ...


Great job! I knew you'd have a time jump pretty soon. Us and Mark are so close to sub 20.


----------



## MarcelP (Jul 27, 2014)

Yeah, I feel Sub 20 is so close.. but so hard to achieve 

Btw:

14+: 1
16+: 9
18+: 27
20+: 32
22+: 19
24+: 11
26+: 0
28+: 1


----------



## mark49152 (Jul 27, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> I knew I have seen them somewhere. Looking at the pictures I see corner pieces that are 1/3 piece (meaning V2).
> http://lightake.com/p/YJ-Mo-Yu-Weilong-3x3x3-Magic-Cube-DIY-Kit_m1492.html
> 
> But you probably allready ordered (or received) it


That looks like the real McCoy. You're right though, I already ordered, along with my AoLong v2 

Congrats on the average btw. Sub-20 is just around the corner!


----------



## mark49152 (Jul 31, 2014)

New bao50 PB = 20.30 on Weilong v1. Exponential trend lines applied to my progress since March suggests that if I continue to improve at the same rate, I'll get a sub-20 bao50 by end of August and sub-18 by end of year. Excel is almost as much fun as cubing .

Unfortunately I'm not liking my cubes right now. The SR2 fell out of favour, the WeiLong v1 has now gone locky again, and the AoLong v1 has become increasingly unstable. I find them tiring to use, like I'm always fighting their annoying tendencies to lock or deform. I don't really like any of my cubes any more and don't have a main right now. Can't wait for the WLv2 and ALv2 to arrive!

Marcel, are you going to Euros?

*Edit x2: *nearly forgot, also a single PB = 14.74, my first sub-15 full step solve!
Scramble: F2 U2 F D B F2 R' U B L2 R' D2 F B2 D R F2 L2 B U2 R L2 B' R2 B'
Solution:-
x2 y
L D R' D2 R' D' L
L' U' L R' U' R
U L' U' L U L' U' L
R U' R' U R U' R' U R U' R'
U L U2 L' U L U L'
r U M U R' U' r U' r'
U' M2 U M' U2 M U M2 U


----------



## MarcelP (Jul 31, 2014)

mark49152 said:


> New bao50 PB = 20.30 on Weilong v1. Exponential trend lines applied to my progress since March suggests that if I continue to improve at the same rate, I'll get a sub-20 bao50 by end of August and sub-18 by end of year. Excel is almost as much fun as cubing .
> 
> Unfortunately I'm not liking my cubes right now. The SR2 fell out of favour, the WeiLong v1 has now gone locky again, and the AoLong v1 has become increasingly unstable. I find them tiring to use, like I'm always fighting their annoying tendencies to lock or deform. I don't really like any of my cubes any more and don't have a main right now. Can't wait for the WLv2 and ALv2 to arrive!
> 
> ...



Nice one Mark! sub 15 full step solves means you belong to the cool guys now.  

No I am not going to Euro's. I wish I could. But I am spending holiday with my family. I had set a goal to do as many A0100's as I could this vacation and strip off a full second of my global average.. Unfortunatly I have not done any timed big averages this vacation. And the small averages that I do are terible.. I mean 22 and 23 second averages..

EDIt, I know how you feel about the wait for the new cubes. I have set my hopes on the AoLong V2. I love my V1's but the black ones are too slow and sluggish. The white ones are awesome, but in competition I want to use black only. I love my Gan III with new core also. It is very very fast. I think the fastest cube there is. I get good averages, but in competition my hands get so nervous that I need a more stable and much slower cube. I think AoLong V1 fits that description. But V2 seems to be ever slower but more stable.. I allready got today a package that was sent from the same store (Cubezz) on the same day it was sent as my AoLong V2. So I am hoping it will arrive tomorrow.


----------



## mark49152 (Jul 31, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> No I am not going to Euro's. I wish I could. But I am spending holiday with my family. I had set a goal to do as many A0100's as I could this vacation and strip off a full second of my global average.. Unfortunatly I have not done any timed big averages this vacation.


Yeah I have not practised full solves much recently, as I have been away a lot with work. However, that means more blind cross practice! Because of the poor lighting in many hotel rooms, it's the only practice I can do. I don't need good lighting with my eyes shut . I've done about 600 blind crosses in the last couple of weeks, and about the same number of sighted cross+1 (which do need good lighting). My cross is down to about 2.2-2.3 and my cross+1 to about 5.2-5.3, on average. It's definitely helping my solve times.


----------



## sneaklyfox (Jul 31, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> I am spending holiday with my *cubes*. I had set a goal to do as many A0100's as I could this vacation



fixed


----------



## MarcelP (Jul 31, 2014)

sneaklyfox said:


> fixed





MarcelP said:


> Unfortunatly I have not done any timed big averages this vacation.



LOL. you did not read that huh? I have not cubed as less as in this vaction  At the beach with my kids every day.


----------



## sneaklyfox (Jul 31, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> LOL. you did not read that huh? I have not cubed as less as in this vaction  At the beach with my kids every day.



Hehe... actually I did read the second part. Just that when I read the first part, that's what I was thinking. But I guess in the end you spent more time with your family instead of cubing which was what you were planning to do haha. Good stuff. :tu


----------



## MarcelP (Aug 1, 2014)

Instead of placing in the Solves critique topic I place it here. Guys, what are my quick wins?



Spoiler



1. 18.90 L' F2 D2 U2 R D2 L R2 D2 L2 B' U L2 B F L D2 U' F' 
2. 18.41 L2 B2 U2 B' R2 B L2 B' U2 R2 F' L U B F L2 U' B2 R B2 F2 
3. 19.46 R F' D2 R D B2 R2 L D R B2 R2 U2 B2 D B2 D F2 U R2 
4. 19.08 R2 D F2 U B2 D2 R2 B2 D2 R2 B D' U2 L' R' B F' U F R


[video=youtube_share;1sJJFv3ho9U]http://youtu.be/1sJJFv3ho9U[/video]


----------



## Schmidt (Aug 1, 2014)

Spoiler: You probably know this already....



Eliminate pauses!


----------



## mark49152 (Aug 1, 2014)

Yeah pauses, and your cross looks a bit hesitant like you're not figuring out the whole thing in inspection...?

Are you back on white crosses only?


----------



## MarcelP (Aug 1, 2014)

Schmidt said:


> Eliminate pauses!



Yeah.. well this is as pause-less as I can. I just can not lookahead faster than this. Well, for now..  I think I have slowly speeded up on tps and kept my lookahead as it was when I was much slower. I think as some point you can not just turn slow to have great lookahead. I think faster TPS with better lookahead is the thing I can work on best for now.



mark49152 said:


> Yeah pauses, and your cross looks a bit hesitant like you're not figuring out the whole thing in inspection...?
> 
> Are you back on white crosses only?



I plan whole crosses. But I turn slow durng cross because I ALWAYS track a corner or an edge. That way I never have problems in cross to first pair transitions. But as you can see in the first three solves, cross + 1 are slow (like 5 seconds) but cross + 2 is only one or two seconds later because after my first pair I allready have track of my second pair.

Yes, I am pretty much back at white/yellow crosses. I do also solve CN in normal solves but timed solves I always start on white. In an Ao100 I do have about 10 - 15 none white/yellow crosses.


----------



## MarcelP (Aug 2, 2014)

mark49152 said:


> Can't wait for the WLv2 and ALv2 to arrive!



I received mine today. And they are amazing. 




Spoiler:  For schmidt



This might be my new main....


----------



## Schmidt (Aug 2, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> Spoiler:  For schmidt
> 
> 
> 
> Give me your address and I will send you the cubes I don't like anymore....


Fixed that for you.


----------



## mark49152 (Aug 2, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> I received mine today. And they are amazing.


Mine arrived but I have no time to open the box!!


----------



## MarcelP (Aug 2, 2014)

Schmidt said:


> Fixed that for you.


LOL, if there is a cube you really want to have but can't afford it, I'd be happy to buy it for you.


mark49152 said:


> Mine arrived but I have no time to open the box!!


Ah come on man, priorities! Hobby first, all the rest later..


----------



## Schmidt (Aug 2, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> LOL, if there is a cube you really want to have but can't afford it, I'd be happy to buy it for you.


A MoYu 5x5x5, please


----------



## MarcelP (Aug 3, 2014)

Schmidt said:


> A MoYu 5x5x5, please



Isn't the 5X5X5 from Moyu a myth? LOL


----------



## MarcelP (Aug 7, 2014)

So after not cubing for a few days due to holidays I decided to do a big session this morning. It seems I have not lost a lot of speed but also not gained any .



Spoiler: Ao300 statistics



Generated By csTimer on 2014-8-7
solves/total: 299/300

single
best: 14.56
worst: 32.15

mean of 3
current: 21.39 (σ = 2.14)
best: 18.23 (σ = 1.17)

avg of 5
current: 22.10 (σ = 0.93)
best: 17.87 (σ = 0.60)

avg of 12
current: 21.64 (σ = 1.05)
best: 19.71 (σ = 1.54)

avg of 50
current: 21.32 (σ = 1.47)
best: 20.92 (σ = 1.51)

avg of 100
current: 21.41 (σ = 1.33)
best: 21.19 (σ = 1.39)

Average: 21.44 (σ = 1.68)
Mean: 21.46



I did all of them with the same cube, my AoLong V2. I did not like it a lot in the beginning. But now after almost 1000 solves it starts to feel ok. The first Ao100 I did was 23.xx. This cube really needs to get used to.


----------



## MarcelP (Aug 8, 2014)

I knew that big sessions are very usefull.  My first 25 solves of today sub 20 Jay! 



Spoiler: Never had a Ao25 sub 20



Generated By csTimer on 2014-8-8
solves/total: 25/25

single
best: 17.03
worst: 24.43

mean of 3
current: 21.42 (σ = 2.62)
best: 18.05 (σ = 1.01)

avg of 5
current: 20.59 (σ = 1.01)
best: 18.66 (σ = 0.78)

avg of 12
current: 19.71 (σ = 1.22)
best: 19.39 (σ = 1.50)

Average: 19.81 (σ = 1.47)
Mean: 19.94

Time List:
1. 18.81 D' U2 B2 L2 U' R2 U2 L2 B2 L2 F U' R' U B U L' D' R F2 
2. 19.14 B2 L F D2 B' D' R B2 U' L' U' D R2 L2 U L2 U' F2 L2 B2 U' 
3. 18.97 D2 L2 D2 F2 U2 R F2 R' F2 D2 F' U' L2 R' F' U2 B' R2 D B' 
4. 17.58 B2 L2 R2 F' R2 F L2 F' U2 R2 U F' L R' U2 L' B' U2 B2 R2 
5. 21.48 B U R' B' L2 U L' D' F' D' L2 B2 L2 F U2 L2 D2 B L2 F2 U2 
6. 23.47 B D2 B2 R2 D2 B D2 L2 U2 B2 D' B' U L R D' B2 L' B' D 
7. 21.57 B2 R2 D' F2 U2 R2 D' L2 D' B2 U2 L' D' B2 R2 U L2 U B' D' U 
8. 17.03 F2 D' F2 U F2 U L2 B2 R2 F2 D2 F' R' D L B D' R' D2 R' D2 
9. 18.06 L2 U2 F2 U2 F2 L2 U2 L2 F L2 R' F2 D' R' F2 D' L D' R' F 
10. 19.05 F D2 F2 L' F2 R F2 L' D' F' B2 L F2 B2 U2 R2 L' B2 L' D2 F2 
11. 22.21 L' D' L' U L F' R' L' F D' F B L2 D2 F2 L2 D2 F L2 U2 F 
12. 22.51 R' U2 R U2 R' U2 L2 D2 B2 R F' R2 U' B L' R2 B' D F2 U' 
13. 19.67 L F2 R2 U F2 U F D' L' D2 B2 U2 R2 F R2 F R2 L2 F B2 
14. 17.47 F2 L2 U F' D L B2 U' D2 B R U2 F2 L D2 R' B2 L U2 D2 B2 
15. 19.07 U2 L2 B2 L2 B R2 D2 F D2 R2 D U' B' R2 F2 L F2 U' R' U2 
16. 19.15 R' U2 B2 U2 R U2 L' D2 B2 D2 R' B R' D2 U L2 R' U' B2 U' L 
17. 20.96 L2 U2 F2 U' B2 D L2 B2 R2 B2 D2 R' F2 L' D' B L R B' F2 
18. 17.77 L2 F L2 U2 R2 F' R2 B D2 B' L2 R D2 L B D' L' D' F' L D' 
19. 20.51 L D R U' R' F2 U2 B' R' F2 R2 F2 L2 D2 L2 B R2 U2 F' L2 
20. 18.22 D2 B' L2 B L2 F U2 F2 R D' L' R' D2 B' U B2 F2 U' 
21. 19.82 D2 B2 R2 D L2 F2 R2 F2 D B2 R2 F' L' D' B U' B L2 F' U2 B 
22. 21.73 B2 D' F2 U B2 F2 D' L2 D U R2 F L R2 B F2 D' R U F2 L 
23. 20.20 L U B D B2 L' D' L F' U2 F2 R B2 R' B2 R2 D2 B2 U2 R' 
24. 19.63 D2 B' D2 R D B2 D' L' F L2 F2 R2 U2 B2 U' F2 R2 U L2 U' 
25. 24.43 U2 L2 F2 U F2 L2 U F2 R2 U B L2 D F2 U' B2 R B' F' D L



EDIT: Cube AoLong V2, slow solving with immaculate lookahead 

EDIT2:



Spoiler: OMG



Generated By csTimer on 2014-8-8
solves/total: 50/50

single
best: 17.03
worst: 24.43

mean of 3
current: 21.06 (σ = 1.70)
best: 18.05 (σ = 1.01)

avg of 5
current: 20.42 (σ = 1.15)
best: 18.66 (σ = 0.78)

avg of 12
current: 20.54 (σ = 1.55)
best: 19.39 (σ = 1.50)

avg of 50
current: 19.97 (σ = 1.39)
best: 19.97 (σ = 1.39)


----------



## sk8erman41 (Aug 8, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> I knew that big sessions are very usefull.  My first 25 solves of today sub 20 Jay!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



SWEET!!!!!!!!! Whatever you are doing is working!!!! Maybe the break helped a bit? I have heard that before but I cannot resist and have to pick up the cube everyday. Ao100 is coming soon


----------



## MarcelP (Aug 8, 2014)

sk8erman41 said:


> SWEET!!!!!!!!! Whatever you are doing is working!!!! Maybe the break helped a bit? I have heard that before but I cannot resist and have to pick up the cube everyday. Ao100 is coming soon



Thanks. Yeah maybe a little break from cubing now and then could be usefull.  The Ao100 was 20.43. After getting a sub 20 Ao50 I lost focus.. I should have taken a break, drink some coffey and I am pretty sure it could have been an sub 20 Ao100  But I don't mind that I did not get it. It was close enough for me.


----------



## Schmidt (Aug 8, 2014)

someone who owns a lot of puzzles said:


> But now after almost 1000 solves it starts to feel ok.


That cube might not be for me, then.
These are all the puzzles I have solved this week:

```
2x2x2     [B]6.74[/B]      7.78, 7.40, 5.81, 3.21, 7.00    
3x3x3     [B]22.83   [/B]  22.78, 23.66, 21.66, 22.44, 23.28    
4x4x4     [B]1:39.69[/B]   1:56.47, 1:34.75, 1:28.65, 1:44.05, 1:40.28    
3x3x3 OH  [B]50.93[/B]     53.71, 46.44, 52.63, 46.46, 1:10.78    
Magic     [B]3.29[/B]      2.58, 2.18, 4.44, 2.86, 29.25    
Pyraminx  [B]14.73[/B]     16.33, 14.77, 13.08, 12.69, 16.53    
Square-1  [B]DNF      [/B] 1:07.19, 1:47.38, 2:00.56, 0.00, 0.00    
Skewb     [B]25.36[/B]     31.71, 23.31, 21.06, 18.44, 42.09
```


----------



## MarcelP (Aug 8, 2014)

Schmidt said:


> That cube might not be for me, then.
> These are all the puzzles I have solved this week:
> 
> ```
> ...


Well, it might be just the cube for you. Everyone is different. Some liked it right out of the box. I have this drunken monkey ninja style of cubing which needs 'special' cubes ..LOL

Yeah, about the solves you did. I hardly do anything else then 3X3. I like 4X4 also but I suck at it, I like megaminx and do a few solves per day. The problem is that one solve takes 10 minutes  I do not know how to solve Square-1 and Skewb.. Not really planning on doing these in competition. I registered for 3BLD for a competition this year, but I still have to start practicing LOL...


----------



## mark49152 (Aug 9, 2014)

Wow, nice one Marcel! Sub 20 ao50 PB! You are opening up the gap again and I will have to work harder to catch you!

Not much cubing for me recently. Too busy. Hopefully the break will help though


----------



## Schmidt (Aug 9, 2014)

What I meant was, if it takes 1000 solves to make it good, I would take me 200 (100 if I use it for OH, too) weekly competitions to make it good.
I don't cube so much anymore.


----------



## MarcelP (Aug 9, 2014)

mark49152 said:


> Wow, nice one Marcel! Sub 20 ao50 PB! You are opening up the gap again and I will have to work harder to catch you!
> 
> Not much cubing for me recently. Too busy. Hopefully the break will help though



Yeah Mark.. some work for you to do LOL.. But looking at your last progress it will be very soon before you are faster again. 

On a side note: I think the speed has come to stay this time. My first Ao25 of today:



Spoiler: How much closer to sub 20 can you get?



Generated By csTimer on 2014-8-9
solves/total: 25/25

single
best: 16.45
worst: 23.50

mean of 3
current: 19.59 (σ = 1.62)
best: 18.13 (σ = 0.39)

avg of 5
current: 20.73 (σ = 0.38)
best: 18.53 (σ = 0.33)

avg of 12
current: 20.47 (σ = 1.34)
best: 19.48 (σ = 1.44)

Average: 20.01 (σ = 1.42)
*Mean: 20.00*

Time List:
1. 20.67 B2 L D2 B2 D2 R2 D2 F2 L' B2 F U' F2 L D L2 D' B2 D R 
2. 21.48 B L2 B R2 F R2 D2 B2 R2 D2 F' L' B2 U2 F R2 B L R' B U 
3. 18.08 U2 F L2 R2 D2 B' R2 B L2 F U2 L' D2 R2 F' U L' F2 R2 U2 B 
4. 20.94 R' U' B2 R' B D R' F2 R' F' U R2 B2 R2 U D2 B2 U2 
5. 19.13 U' R' L' B2 R' B' D F U R' L2 B L2 B' U2 D2 R2 B2 R2 F 
6. 18.90 U2 R2 F2 L U2 F2 U2 R2 U2 R' D L2 F U2 R U2 R2 D L' D2 
7. 18.44 B2 U2 B D2 U2 F D2 L2 F' D' F2 R' D R2 F2 U' L' B2 F2 
8. 17.70 B2 L2 B2 D2 B2 D' F2 R2 B2 R2 U R U2 F' L F D L R F U 
9. 18.26 L2 D2 F2 U R2 U' F2 D L2 B2 L2 R' B R2 F2 R' F L R' B' D 
10. 23.50 F D2 R L F' B2 L2 F U' B' D2 R2 D2 R2 B' U2 D2 R2 F 
11. 21.25 F2 D2 R2 F' L2 D2 B' D2 F L2 F2 D B L2 B' F D2 L' F' U' 
12. 17.62 D2 B2 F' D2 B R2 B' F' D2 F' U' B U' F' D L D' R' F R' 
13. 20.61 U2 R2 D2 L2 B F2 L2 U L' U' F2 R B2 R' B' L' B' 
14. 21.71 D2 L D2 L' R2 D2 U2 B2 L' B2 F' D R' D2 L2 D U F L 
15. 21.23 F B R U R' L2 F U2 L U' F2 U2 L2 U' B2 U2 R2 D F2 U 
16. 16.45 U2 R2 D' B2 U' B2 U' L2 B2 R2 B' R2 F U R B' L F2 R' F' 
17. 20.91 D R2 L' U L U2 F' U' R' F L2 F' U2 B L2 D2 B' U2 F' D2 
18. 18.43 D2 R2 D' F2 R2 U' B2 U' L2 U2 L R' B L' D U R U R2 B 
19. 20.80 D2 U' L2 F2 U F2 U L2 F2 D L2 B L R D F' D F' U' R2 U2 
20. 22.36 D2 L' D' F' U D2 L2 B' D B2 L B2 R' F2 B2 D2 R D2 R' F2 
21. 21.14 F2 R2 D' U' F2 D' L2 U' L2 F D' L' D B' R F2 D U2 F U 
22. 21.71 D' L2 F2 U' L2 U L2 U2 L2 R2 B2 R' B U' L F L2 U' F D' 
23. 20.40 B L2 U D F2 L U' F R B' R L2 F2 B2 D2 R B2 L' U2 L 
24. 20.65 R' F2 L B2 R2 U2 B2 L' D2 R' F' L2 D' U R F2 D2 R2 B' D 
25. 17.73 L2 D2 R' B2 R2 D2 R' B2 L2 F2 D2 B' F U' F' L D2 R' U' L' F2





Schmidt said:


> What I meant was..
> I don't cube so much anymore.



Yeah.. I know. I hope I do not get to that stage soon..


----------



## MarcelP (Aug 9, 2014)

Anyone.. (Melody in particulair  ) Where can I find a good tutorial to become fast on Pyraminx? I have watched the keyhole tut from Erik Akkersdijk but I do not get it. I need a better tutorial. Right now I solve layer by layer and it takes way too long. Next comp I want to set some PB's


----------



## kcl (Aug 9, 2014)

Practice LBL. Believe it or not, some people average sub 5 with it.


----------



## MarcelP (Aug 9, 2014)

kclejeune said:


> Practice LBL. Believe it or not, some people average sub 5 with it.



Okay, if you say so.  I use Bob Burthon last layer algs (http://www.cubewhiz.com/pyraminx.php). They are quite akward. Do I need to change them to other ones?


----------



## sneaklyfox (Aug 10, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> Anyone.. (Melody in particulair  ) Where can I find a good tutorial to become fast on Pyraminx? I have watched the keyhole tut from Erik Akkersdijk but I do not get it. I need a better tutorial. Right now I solve layer by layer and it takes way too long. Next comp I want to set some PB's



I learned keyhole from Erik's tutorial. Which part do you not get? I haven't watched it in a long time but I know some parts were not very clear. I was trying to make my own keyhole method tutorial but my computers don't have video editing right now and I haven't had time to put together all the clips I made.

Marcel, do you have Skype?


----------



## MarcelP (Aug 11, 2014)

sneaklyfox said:


> I learned keyhole from Erik's tutorial. Which part do you not get? I haven't watched it in a long time but I know some parts were not very clear. I was trying to make my own keyhole method tutorial but my computers don't have video editing right now and I haven't had time to put together all the clips I made.
> 
> Marcel, do you have Skype?



No, I have no skype. The thing I do not get about that video is how to make the first stage. And also.. from there is gets really confusing when he turns the Pyraminx everytime. I have no clue then where the keyhole is, or what the keyhole does.


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## Gordon (Aug 11, 2014)

How I understand it is, that in the first step, you create a little Pyramid with one edge-piece missing. This missing edge-piece is the so called Keyhole.
Now you do the first rotation, where you hold the finished little Pyramid on the left side, with the Keyhole-piece looking upwards. This defines your bottom collor.
If you hold the Pyraminx like this, you can turn the top little Pyramid and the whole right face without destroying the already correct pieces.
Now, using this parts, you line up the remaining centers of the bottom collors on the turnable right face so that they can moved down together.
Now turn the top little Pyramid so that all centers are matched up.
Now you do the second rotation to move the Keyhole piece to the top back.
Now solve the Keyhole piece and then the three remaining edges on the front face.

Maybe this helps


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## Schmidt (Aug 11, 2014)

"My" method:
Solve the bottom(the ones below the tips)
find an edge in the bottom layer that needs to go to the top layer and do R L R' L' or L' R' L R
if a piece is correct but flipped, swap it with any bottom edge with one of the above algs
solve the bottom like most other methods

almost worst case:
[video=youtube_share;hvBj15kucVc]http://youtu.be/hvBj15kucVc[/video]


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## MarcelP (Aug 11, 2014)

Gordon said:


> Maybe this helps





Schmidt said:


> "My" method:



Thanks guys... I will have a go at it


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## MarcelP (Aug 12, 2014)

A scramble I received today on a Dutch Facebook group:

B2 F2 D' F2 U' R2 U' L2 U2 F2 R2 B' U2 L D2 B2 F R B2 L' U

x2 y2 //Inspection
R' D' R' L2 B2 // XX-cross (5)
U2 R' U' R U' R' U2 R2 U' R' // 3rd F2L (10)
U2 L' U L U' F U F' // Complete F2L (8)
T- OLL (8)
Aa- PLL (11)

I got a sub 10 on the first try  

42 moves = 4.12 TPS


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## sneaklyfox (Aug 13, 2014)

Did you actually see that XXcross in inspection or was that a fluke?


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## kcl (Aug 13, 2014)

5.16 on that, 39 move solution haha. The way I did f2l gave me R' F R U R' U' F' U R into H perm with no AUF.


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## MarcelP (Aug 13, 2014)

sneaklyfox said:


> Did you actually see that XXcross in inspection or was that a fluke?



No not at all..  I just tried the scramble and had a sub 10  I have been working on x-crosses and I have come to the conclusion that just doing the best cross (in as few moves) works best for me. If I spot a pair and the 'trying to preserve' it really really slows down my solve..  That only works if you have high TPS.. So just doing the cross (and breaking up possible pairs) and then go into F2L is better for me.


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## Gordon (Aug 14, 2014)

I just had probably the most inconsistent avg of 5 ever:

*21*.58, (*32*.92), *22*.47, (*21*.05), *30*.69 => 24.91
(Weekly comp scrambles)

32 was messed up cross, 30 was bad cross... I hate the cross.
If at least one of them would have been good.
anyway... the other three solves were extraordinary good, not usual at all...


BTW:
how do you solve cases like this in the cross:


Spoiler











I mean only the orange/white and blue/white piece. It doesn't matter if the other two are solved or not


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## MarcelP (Aug 14, 2014)

Gordon said:


> how do you solve cases like this in the cross:
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> ...



Easy:
White on R and orange on F:
R U R' U' two times.. I have no cube here.. so I can not verify... I might have it wrong 

Btw, cross is easy to get better at.. Instead of doing complete solves scramble after solving cross only. I do that at least 100 times in a weekend.


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## h2f (Aug 14, 2014)

If you mean cross: R D R' D' R'.


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## CiaranBeahan (Aug 14, 2014)

Congratulations on 100,000 views on this thread! I just wanted to point that out incase anybody missed it.


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## mark49152 (Aug 14, 2014)

CiaranBeahan said:


> Congratulations on 100,000 views on this thread! I just wanted to point that out incase anybody missed it.


I wonder if that's 100,000 views by the same 5 people


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## MarcelP (Aug 14, 2014)

CiaranBeahan said:


> Congratulations on 100,000 views on this thread! I just wanted to point that out incase anybody missed it.



Wow, that is actually pretty cool..


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## Gordon (Aug 17, 2014)

Ahhhh... Finaly another sub 20: *18.88*. If I remember correct, it's my 6th.
L' D' B L' B R L2 F' L2 B U' B2 D R2 L2 D2 B2 D R2 F2 U 

OLL skip, but I don't care


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## MarcelP (Aug 17, 2014)

Nice man! You are definatly improving  (No PB's without improvement right?)..

I have watched your Pyraminx video a few times now and I get the key hole principle now. But I am way more comfertable with doing centers first and than edges with the easy 4 move algs. I have tried the key hole thing for a week but I think I have to give up on that 

EDIT: Just had this one with PLL -skip 13.36 F' U2 F U R' U B2 D F B2 R' L B2 U2 R' D2 L' U2 R U2

Edit 2: Fullstep 14.48 B2 L2 D2 F L2 B L2 R2 U2 R' D2 U' L' F2 D2 F2 U2 R U


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## MarcelP (Aug 19, 2014)

I am back to solving full color neutral. Having lot's of full step sub 15 solves. (Well.. almost one per day LOL..)

Look at this beautifull scramble.. (generated by csTimer at WCA mode)

14.54 D' B2 U R2 B2 U' L2 F' D2 R2 B L' U F' L2 F R2

If life would only be so kind to throw me one of these in competition.


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## sk8erman41 (Aug 19, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> If life would only be so kind to throw me one of these in competition.



Boy that's hard to resist! And red is my least favorite color cross. GJ


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## MarcelP (Aug 19, 2014)

sk8erman41 said:


> GJ



Thanks  The last week my times have been quite off here and there.. But since I started to go back to CN they are comming back to where I want them. Todays Ao50 with a very very cool standard deviation:


Spoiler



Generated By csTimer on 2014-8-19
solves/total: 50/50

single
best: 14.54
worst: 25.04

mean of 3
current: 21.25 (σ = 0.97)
best: 18.06 (σ = 3.94)

avg of 5
current: 21.29 (σ = 0.91)
best: 19.66 (σ = 2.50)

avg of 12
current: 20.59 (σ = 1.42)
best: 20.40 (σ = 1.72)

avg of 50
current: 20.98 (σ = 1.52)
best: 20.98 (σ = 1.52)

Average: 20.98 (σ = *1.52*)
Mean: 20.90

Time List:
1. 22.67 U2 B2 F2 D' F2 L2 U' B2 U2 F2 D B U' B2 L' F2 R B2 U' F2 L 
2. 22.51 D2 B2 D U2 B2 U' F2 U' L2 B2 F' R' B' U2 L2 U' R F2 L F2 U2 
3. 22.96 R2 F' R2 L2 U R U F B' L' B2 R2 B2 U R2 L2 U L2 
4. 17.70 U2 B2 L' R2 D2 F2 R2 B2 L R' D L' D2 R2 F' D' R2 U L D 
5. 21.05 L' B2 D2 L' F2 U2 F2 L' R B2 U2 F' U' L F2 D' U' R2 F L' R2 
6. 24.10 U2 B2 R2 B R2 D2 B2 L2 F2 R2 D' R2 F' L2 D R F2 D B2 L 
7. 21.63 F2 R2 B2 U R2 B2 F2 U L2 F2 U L R2 B' D' B2 R' D2 L2 D B2 
8. 23.67 F2 R' B2 U2 L B2 R B2 R' D2 R' B F U F R' U' F2 D' B U 
9. 14.54 D' B2 U R2 B2 U' L2 F' D2 R2 B L' U F' L2 F R2 
10. 17.33 D2 R B2 D2 R' B2 U2 L' D2 U2 L' F R' U' B' D2 R' F2 U' F2 
11. 22.31 D2 B' L2 F' U2 B F' D2 R2 B L2 R' F' U' R D L' U' B2 R 
12. 19.35 B2 R2 D B2 D2 L2 B2 U L2 U R' B' L2 U2 R U R' D F2 U' 
13. 22.72 L U' D L F' L' B D F R' F D2 F R2 D2 F U2 B' U2 B' U2 
14. 19.66 R2 F' R2 B2 U2 L2 F2 R2 B L2 F' U' R' D B2 D2 L R2 B2 U' F' 
15. 20.91 R2 F2 L' F2 U2 L B2 D2 L B2 R B D2 L' U' B2 D B2 R D F2 
16. 18.40 F' R' U' D L' F L' D' L' U' F2 U2 L2 D2 F' U2 F2 D2 L2 D2 B 
17. 21.83 R2 B' R' F2 B' R' U2 D F' U D B2 D B2 L2 U' R2 D2 R2 U' 
18. 20.90 B' D2 B' R2 F' L2 F' R2 B' F2 D R2 D' B R D F R2 D' 
19. 23.69 U2 B R2 D2 B' F2 U2 L2 U2 F' D2 L' B' U2 B2 R2 B D B' F2 R2 
20. 20.56 R2 B2 D F2 D2 F2 U' L2 D U' L2 F D' L F' D2 F U' B L' R2 
21. 20.72 U2 R2 D2 B U2 B2 R2 U2 B2 U2 B2 L' F U' R2 F2 R D L U2 B 
22. 20.08 L2 R2 U2 F2 U L2 B2 D' B2 D B' U2 L D2 B' D' F2 U2 L' R' 
23. 18.96 R2 U F2 L2 B2 D' F2 U R2 D2 B' L2 U L B L R' D' B U 
24. 20.67 R2 F2 R' F' R' D2 L' B U' R' U' R2 U2 R2 B2 D B2 U R2 D2 L2 
25. 21.61 F' L2 F' L2 F' U2 B' D2 F R2 B R' B2 R2 F2 D L' B2 F2 L' B' 
26. 23.58 D' F2 D2 L2 U F2 D' B2 F2 L2 B L' R2 B' R U2 F' D U' B U 
27. 19.36 R2 F2 D2 L2 D2 B L2 R2 B D2 B' R' D L F D U2 L' B L2 
28. 20.20 R2 D2 F2 U2 F U2 R2 D2 F R2 B U' L2 D L D' R F D R2 B2 
29. 21.42 L' F2 U2 L' R F2 L B2 F2 R2 B L' F2 D2 F2 D' B R2 
30. 22.86 B2 D F2 D2 B2 R2 B2 F2 U B2 D R B L' R F R U L U2 R 
31. 21.20 B L2 B F2 L2 D2 F D2 B2 F' D' L2 F' R B2 L2 F U B2 L' U 
32. 19.09 U2 L' B U R2 F' U D' L' B' U' F2 B2 L2 F2 U' L2 D' R2 
33. 19.04 U2 L2 U B2 D' B2 D' F2 D' R D' U2 R D2 R' U' L' F' U' 
34. 21.64 L F2 D2 L2 U2 F2 R F2 R2 U2 R F' U F2 L' F' R2 F2 L' B 
35. 21.68 L2 F' R2 F D2 B L2 R2 U2 F R' F2 L' B' D B2 R' F' L' D2 
36. 23.31 D' R' B2 L2 U2 F' B2 D B D2 R U2 L2 D2 R U2 L F2 R2 L 
37. 20.37 B U D' F2 U B R U R F2 U L2 F2 D L2 B2 U R2 D 
38. 22.50 F2 U' F U' L2 U2 B R L2 F U' D B2 U2 F2 R2 D' F2 R2 B2 U2 
39. 17.23 L2 B2 F2 U2 L B2 R B2 F2 R' D' R' D' B' L B' U R2 D2 F 
40. 21.53 U B L' F' U' B D2 R U2 D R2 F R2 B' L2 B2 U2 F D2 L2 
41. 20.43 D' B2 R2 F2 L2 U' B2 R2 D2 L2 R B2 F' D2 R D L2 R2 B' F 
42. 21.73 F2 L' B2 D2 L F2 U2 R2 F2 U2 R' D B2 D2 R B' U' R D L F' 
43. 17.28 F R2 D2 F D2 R2 B2 L2 U2 F' U B' L R' D F D R2 U R2 
44. 19.49 U' F2 R2 D F2 L2 U2 F2 D' L2 U F' D L' F2 L' B F L' F' L2 
45. 21.29 L2 R' F2 D2 U2 L2 F2 D2 U' L D' L2 B2 R F R B2 F' 
46. 25.04 B' L' D F2 L2 B U2 D' L' U2 B R2 F2 U2 F' U2 L2 U2 L2 
47. 20.37 R2 B2 D' R2 U L2 D B2 D B2 R U F U2 F R2 U' F R' D2 
48. 22.19 U' B2 U B2 D2 R2 D' F2 R2 U2 L D2 B2 D B U2 B' D 
49. 20.26 U' R' U F' D R B U2 L2 D' R2 F2 R2 F R2 U2 R2 U2 L2 B' L2 
50. 21.30 B2 L2 F' L2 F2 U2 F R2 F R2 D2 L' R F' R' B R B2 D F2 R'


----------



## sk8erman41 (Aug 20, 2014)

OH YEAH!!!!!!!!!!!  Broke my PB Ao12 that have stood for a super long time! I feel like I am on the verge of a permanent time drop and feeling good about it!


Spoiler: Ao50 (21.11)



Rubik's cube
Aug 20, 2014 3:58:37 PM - 4:37:34 PM

Mean: 21.13
Average: 21.11
Best time: 16.08
Median: 20.65
Worst time: 26.77
Standard deviation: 2.29

Best average of 5: 19.40
15-19 - (17.49) (23.31) 19.26 19.16 19.77

Best average of 12: 20.39
10-21 - 18.55 19.03 24.47 18.27 (26.77) (17.49) 23.31 19.26 19.16 19.77 19.38 22.72

1. 23.33 L2 D U2 R2 D' F2 D' L2 B2 R2 D2 L F U' L' D L D2 U' L' F2
2. 18.89 U F2 R2 D U2 F2 R2 U' L2 U2 R' B' R D R2 L B' R' B D2
3. 23.96 R2 F2 U2 L2 F2 D' F2 L2 B2 R2 F2 R U' B' R2 F D2 L' U' B L
4. 18.04 B2 U2 F2 R2 D F2 L2 D2 F2 R2 D R U' R U' F L F
5. 19.12 R2 B2 U B2 D L2 U L2 U2 L2 U2 R' F D B2 F D F2 U L2
6. 22.07 B2 U2 L2 B2 R2 U B2 D' U2 R2 D F' U2 L2 U R L' U2 B' L2 F D2
7. 22.40 U L2 U' B2 F2 D' R2 U F2 U2 R' B L2 B2 D U F' L2 U' L'
8. 23.90 B2 U L2 D B2 D2 U' F2 R2 B2 R2 F' U L' D B2 R2 F U' F2 L2
9. 25.06 L2 U2 L2 F2 U' F2 U F2 R2 U R2 F' R' B L' D R2 D' F D' R' U
10. 18.55 U' L2 U B2 U' F2 D B2 D' R2 D L' D' F R' U B' R U' R' D U'
11. 19.03 B2 D B2 U2 F2 U2 R2 U L2 U R2 B R F L B' F2 L' F' U' L
12. 24.47 B2 U F2 D L2 D F2 D' L2 D F2 R B U2 L U2 R' F R2 U
13. 18.27 U2 B2 D R2 B2 U2 B2 U' L2 U R2 F' D2 R L' U R' F2 R' L2 F U
14. 26.77 F2 L2 D2 L2 D U F2 L2 U' F2 R2 F' R D U' B F2 D' B R L' U'
15. 17.49 B2 U R2 F2 D' B2 L2 D' B2 F2 L' F2 U R' B2 D' B' R2 F D
16. 23.31 U' L2 U' R2 D' B2 U B2 L2 B2 U2 R' F' D R' L B' D' F R D2 L'
17. 19.26 F2 R2 L2 D F2 D R2 D' B2 D F2 L' F' L' B2 D' B L' U2 F' U
18. 19.16 D2 F2 R2 U B2 L2 D2 R2 D' L2 D' F' L2 U R' D R' L' B' R' F D2
19. 19.77 F2 D' F2 U R2 U F2 R2 B2 R2 B' U L' F' U2 L B' R2 F D
20. 19.38 U' L2 U' F2 U F2 D2 L2 B2 D2 B' U R D L2 D L U' R' U2 F'
21. 22.72 D2 B2 U R2 L2 F2 D L2 D2 B2 L U' F' R2 L2 F' D2 R D' L' U2
22. 24.48 U2 L2 U R2 D R2 D' L2 D B2 D B F D2 U' F' D2 R F' L D2 U
23. 21.95 F2 R2 D' U R2 L2 F2 D R2 B' D F2 R2 F' U L' B' R U' B2 U2
24. 21.72 D B2 D' B2 D R2 B2 R2 L2 U F R B' F R L' D' B2 U' F' R2
25. 24.11 U2 L2 U B2 U' B2 L2 U2 R2 D' B2 L' U B D' F R B2 R' D' L2 U2
26. 18.99 U' F2 D2 F2 U B2 L2 B2 R2 U2 L2 F R B' L' B' R2 D' R' U2 L
27. 19.51 F2 U2 B2 L2 U' R2 L2 F2 R2 U' B2 R B' R2 B2 D2 F R L' B' L U'
28. 22.72 D R2 D' L2 D R2 F2 U L2 B2 R' B2 R' D2 U' F L' U2 B L
29. 20.57 D' B2 R2 B2 D F2 D L2 U2 F2 D' B U2 L' F2 L' B' U' L' U2 F D2
30. 22.50 R2 F2 U2 B2 L2 U' R2 F2 L2 B2 U' R B D F2 D2 L' U' F2 D L2 D'
31. 16.08 D2 F2 D' L2 U L2 B2 D R2 F2 D2 L' D' U2 R2 U F' D R' L D2
32. 23.97 B2 D' F2 D' F2 R2 U B2 U F2 D B F' U' R' B2 U B' D' L F'
33. 20.67 D2 F2 L2 U2 F2 D' B2 R2 D R2 U' B R D2 B L2 D' R D2 B U
34. 18.28 U' B2 U2 L2 B2 L2 U F2 D2 L2 B2 R U B D2 R' B' L' F U' F D
35. 20.47 F2 R2 B2 D U L2 U F2 D' L2 B2 L' D' F2 U2 F U R L' D' U'
36. 20.31 D' R2 U' B2 R2 U2 R2 F2 R2 B2 D' L' R2 F' D2 L' U' B' R B2 D2
37. 21.02 B2 F2 L2 U2 B2 U R2 D' B2 F2 D' L D F2 D' B' F U F' D L2 U'
38. 20.62 L2 U F2 D2 L2 U' R2 F2 D2 L2 B L2 B2 D2 L' U F U2 R2 U2
39. 22.00 R2 F2 D U2 F2 R2 D B2 L2 F2 U' L F U' R2 D' B2 R D' B L U'
40. 21.20 U2 B2 U' R2 B2 U B2 U' L2 U' L2 B' U F' D U B2 R D R2 B2
41. 21.97 B2 D R2 F2 U R2 F2 D2 B2 U' L2 B F' L' F' R U R D2 L' D' U
42. 19.33 B2 F2 U' F2 D2 F2 R2 B2 U2 L' B' F2 U2 F R L2 D'
43. 20.84 R2 U F2 D F2 U B2 L2 D L2 D' B L2 U2 B L B U' F' D R' B'
44. 24.18 D2 R2 U2 R2 D' F2 R2 D' L2 B2 U L' B R2 F U B R F' D' U2 F2
45. 20.53 U2 F2 U F2 U' L2 F2 D' B2 F2 U' L U R' B U2 B U F2 R2 U2
46. 20.59 D' U' L2 U' L2 F2 D R2 B2 R2 D2 L' D' F' D' F L' B' D L2 D2 U2
47. 18.44 U L2 D' L2 F2 U F2 R2 D R2 B U L2 F2 U R' D L2 F L' D2
48. 24.15 D B2 F2 D' R2 U B2 L2 B2 U2 R D2 U2 L F' L2 F2 R' L'
49. 20.58 U2 L2 D2 L2 B2 D F2 D' R2 U F2 L' U F2 D2 F' D U F U2 L' U'
50. 19.61 D' R2 D' F2 D2 L2 D' R2 U B' U' F2 U F R' D F U2 L' U


----------



## sneaklyfox (Aug 21, 2014)

Wow, guys. You will soon catch up to me. I haven't been able to cube as much lately since our nanny is no longer with us. I think I'm slower than I was a few months ago.


----------



## MarcelP (Aug 21, 2014)

sneaklyfox said:


> Wow, guys. You will soon catch up to me. I haven't been able to cube as much lately since our nanny is no longer with us. I think I'm slower than I was a few months ago.



I did not know you had a nanny  But yeah... that sucks.. You will probably up to fast speed again if you start practicing again. Don't worry bout me getting to your times. LOL I am pretty sure the top of my speed has reached. I am focussing on other stuff now. (Pyra, Mega, 2X2 etc)..



sk8erman41 said:


> OH YEAH!!!!!!!!!!!  Broke my PB Ao12 that have stood for a super long time! I feel like I am on the verge of a permanent time drop and feeling good about it!



Good stuff!! Keep it up. You are at my speed almost..


----------



## Gordon (Aug 21, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> I am focussing on other stuff now. (Pyra, Mega, 2X2 etc)..



How are you doing in Pyra? I am so bad, sometimes I need over a minute to solve it, and I think I never had a sub-30 solve 
I somehow cannot get my mind around it. I think I'll have to try another method. Keyhole is to hard for me 

Did you ever try Skewb? Skewb is fun!


----------



## MarcelP (Aug 21, 2014)

Gordon said:


> How are you doing in Pyra? I am so bad, sometimes I need over a minute to solve it, and I think I never had a sub-30 solve
> I somehow cannot get my mind around it. I think I'll have to try another method. Keyhole is to hard for me



Well.. I am very cool as you know.. so I have a sub 31 official average: http://www.worldcubeassociation.org/results/p.php?i=2012POOT01 LOL Even a 25.xx single.. without practice. I never practice Pyra. I watched the video of MonkeyDude to learn how to solve the pyra without algs. You might want to look into that then.. I am at the point where I want to be super cool like Melody (SneaklyFox) and do it in 6 seconds  But it turns out that you can get sub 10 easy with the layer by layer method and you just need to practice. So that's what I am doing now... No real progress so far...



Gordon said:


> Did you ever try Skewb? Skewb is fun!



I have a Skewb but do not yet really know how to solve it yet. I ordered a MoYu Skewb. When it comes I will pick up learning that too  Any tips on what video to watch?


----------



## Gordon (Aug 21, 2014)

Maybe I have to look into the layer-by-layer method... any good tutorials?



MarcelP said:


> I have a Skewb but do not yet really know how to solve it yet. I ordered a MoYu Skewb. When it comes I will pick up learning that too  Any tips on what video to watch?



I first learned Ranzha's Method before my comp and even made it to the Final (that sounds great, even if there was only one round: https://www.worldcubeassociation.org/results/p.php?i=2014LAZA02)
Here is the first video of the series: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vv_UD5xnYx0

But after the comp I didn't practice anymore and forgot everything. Now I'm solving with Sarah's Beginners Method: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qpykCxeMA6U


I just saw your video about the Gan III. Is it worth a try? And where do you order stickers? thecubicle?


----------



## MarcelP (Aug 21, 2014)

Gordon said:


> I just saw your video about the Gan III. Is it worth a try? And where do you order stickers? thecubicle?



Did you see that 16 second solve on hand scramble orange cross in that video .. LOL.. (I love getting back to CN solving)

Yeah, the GAN 357 is definatly worth trying. It is less then 10$ and probably the fastest cube out there. It is very smooth and cuts 'everything'. The only downside is that because of that speed it is hard to control for me. If I did not have the AoLong V2 it would be my main. I did get sub 20 Ao12's with Gan 357. 


Yes, I order stickers from thecubicle.us. I use fullbright with sky blue on black cubes. On white cubes I use MoYu color set.

Monkey dude's video: http://youtu.be/vPvmoSWfpcQ


----------



## Gordon (Aug 21, 2014)

Thanks for the vid. Now when I see it, i can remember that I once learned a similar method. 
No idea from where, but it was faster for me. Maybe I'll find it.

I guess I'll have to try the GAN 357. I didn't buy it until now, because the round center sticker kind of disturbed me 
But now, together with a MoYu Skewb it's $17, which is not that much.


----------



## MarcelP (Aug 22, 2014)

Some nice CN solves:



Spoiler



Generated By csTimer on 2014-8-22
solves/total: 6/6

single
best: 17.36
worst: 22.28

mean of 3
current: 19.21 (σ = 1.69)
best: 19.21 (σ = 1.69)

avg of 5
current: 19.79 (σ = 0.81)
best: 19.79 (σ = 0.81)

Average: 20.32 (σ = 1.25)
Mean: 20.15

Time List:
1. 22.28 U R2 D2 R2 B2 R2 U R2 D2 L' B' D B2 R2 D2 F R' F' R' 
2. 19.10 F U2 B2 L2 U2 R2 F R2 B' D2 U2 R D B2 D2 B L2 U' R U 
3. 21.92 D2 B F R2 F2 D2 R2 U2 F R2 D' L R U' F R2 D' B U2 L' 
4. 17.36 R2 F2 L2 U R2 D' R2 B2 R2 U L2 B' L R U' F R B F D' L2 
5. 19.59 B' L' F' R D B U' R2 U2 B U2 R2 F2 R B2 L' F2 U2 L2 F2 
6. 20.68 U2 B L' F U' B2 R2 L F' L2 U F2 U2 B2 R2 D' L2 D F2 U'

Cube: AoLong V2 with stock stickers


[video=youtube_share;iCyjaF7L6Xo]http://youtu.be/iCyjaF7L6Xo[/video]


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## sneaklyfox (Aug 24, 2014)

Marcel, what's your main now? (Or do you have one?)


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## MarcelP (Aug 24, 2014)

sneaklyfox said:


> Marcel, what's your main now? (Or do you have one?)



Yeah, I am absolutely in love with my MoYu AoLong V2. After 1000 solves that cube is awesome. Why? Are you going to order a new cube?


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## moralsh (Aug 24, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> I am pretty sure the top of my speed has reached.


It's been two years reading similar quotes from you, and somehow you always manage to get faster [emoji13] 

I'm pretty sure you are not at your peak. And neither is anyone who keeps practicing


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## MarcelP (Aug 24, 2014)

moralsh said:


> I'm pretty sure you are not at your peak. And neither is anyone who keeps practicing



I really hope so..  Like this weekend all averages where awesome. All Ao100's (did 4 of them) where sub 21.  Weekends like this make me feel like there is room for improvement (appearantly). But when I look at the facts.. I have been around 22/23 seconds for more than the past 6 months. Improvement is really really slow although I put in the work. And at my age I feel like my max speed (TPS -wise) has reached. Only points to improve is lookahead.


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## mark49152 (Aug 25, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> And at my age I feel like my max speed (TPS -wise) has reached. Only points to improve is lookahead.


That's what I used to think but I don't believe it now, and I don't believe you're anywhere near maxed out on 3x3. Try PLL attacks or other alg drills to develop tps. I reach about 5tps on PLLs. If I can extend that to the whole solve, with perfect lookahead, 5tps = sub-12, on an efficient solve. I also found that learning and drilling more algs helps general tps because it taught me a wider variety of finger techniques. For example, my F2L also got faster after I learned to push U and U' more, through OLL practice.


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## MarcelP (Aug 25, 2014)

If only I could improve on PLL's I would shave 1 - 2 seconds of my average alone..  There might be some strech left, buy it takes more dedication than I can deliver in my life. Although cubing is probably the one thing I love doing the most, I have much other stuff to do that is more important. So with that in mind I do not think I will get a lot further.


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## moralsh (Aug 25, 2014)

Just keep improving, you'll get there eventually.


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## Gordon (Aug 26, 2014)

I often thought that I am at a point were I will not improve anymore. Ususaly doing other disciplines for some days helped. I wasn't faster after that, but motivated again to put in some more effort. This then helped to improve.

In overal, my improvment is very slow. But I kind of don't care as long as I do improve my times.



Today I received my first package from cubezz.com. I always order cubes to work to be sure that I don't miss the package.
The package from cubezz is so well packaged that I cannot open it without a knife or so, so it's lying here next to me and slows down work-time like hell


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## mark49152 (Aug 26, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> There might be some strech left, buy it takes more dedication than I can deliver in my life. Although cubing is probably the one thing I love doing the most, I have much other stuff to do that is more important. So with that in mind I do not think I will get a lot further.


Marcel, your dedication and persistence is admired by many here. There is always room for improvement, it's just a question of doing the right things to achieve it. If anyone can, you can!


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## MarcelP (Aug 26, 2014)

Gordon said:


> In overal, my improvment is very slow.
> The package from cubezz is so well packaged that I cannot open it without a knife or so, so it's lying here next to me and slows down work-time like hell



Well, your progress from sub 30 to sub 25 is fairly fast. Faster than you went from 35 to 30 I think  But I agree with you that I do not really care about fast progress as long as you have progress  What did get from Cubezz? Yeah, their packaging is pretty good. I like their shop a lot.



mark49152 said:


> Marcel, your dedication and persistence is admired by many here. There is always room for improvement, it's just a question of doing the right things to achieve it. If anyone can, you can!



LOL, thanks. But correct me if I am wrong, but you are older than me (or at same age) and improving faster. I think you put more effort in than me. But thanks for the support. I appreciate it very much.


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## Gordon (Aug 26, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> What did get from Cubezz? Yeah, their packaging is pretty good. I like their shop a lot.



I've ordered a ShengShou Skewb and an AoLong V2. 
I've recieved a ShengShou Skewb and a MoYu Skewb... But it's ok. I anyway wanted to buy also a MoYu Skewb. Im just glad that I didn't order one yet.


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## mark49152 (Aug 26, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> But correct me if I am wrong, but you are older than me (or at same age) and improving faster. I think you put more effort in than me.


Similar age I think (mid-40s?) and similarly preoccupied with family, job and other more important things, so I know where you're coming from there. I have hardly picked up a cube in two weeks.

I had a few weeks of fast progress recently, but when you account for the long plateaus, I don't think we're much different. I have been cubing almost two years now, so almost as long as you, and just behind you in averages.

Certainly I'm convinced it takes a lot more effort and a more intelligent training approach to make gains at our age, but don't lose heart. Probably, like me, you once thought sub-30 was approaching your limit . As long as it stays fun, we'll continue to improve.

How's your cross+1 these days?


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## MarcelP (Aug 27, 2014)

Gordon said:


> I've ordered a ShengShou Skewb and an AoLong V2.
> I've recieved a ShengShou Skewb and a MoYu Skewb... But it's ok. I anyway wanted to buy also a MoYu Skewb. Im just glad that I didn't order one yet.



The good part is that you still can order an AoLong and wait for it  I love my MoYu Skewb. I master the Sara beginner method now. Time to step up to intermediate level 



mark49152 said:


> How's your cross+1 these days?



Well, after your recent progress you said you did 300 cross only solves per day or so. so I decided to do 500 per day for a week. And what do you know.. my cross is faster now. I think it is sub 5. Looking at my video's I do not see fast crosses, but I do see controlled crosses with smooth transitions. For example this average from today:

All solves: crosses + 1 sub 5, complete F2L in 12 - 13 secs, and last layer sub 6/7

[video=youtube_share;5Git1J_eshQ]http://youtu.be/5Git1J_eshQ?list=UUIXTiyCxjMTqLy2P_gV5Vxw[/video]


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## Gordon (Aug 28, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> The good part is that you still can order an AoLong and wait for it  I love my MoYu Skewb. I master the Sara beginner method now. Time to step up to intermediate level



Yup, as soon as I can top up my paypal account, I'll order (or should I say) try to order an AoLong V2 and Gan 357.

I like the SchengShou Skewb better. I took out the balls (I castrated the Skewb) and springs and now it turns without the clicking and very smooth.
I maybe try to put in the LanLan springs, but I'm not sure yet.

The MoYu is not bad either, but I've received in in original plastic color, which I do not really like.

Yesterday, I've learned some intermediate algos, but I've already forgot them  If I have time, I'll continue today.


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## MarcelP (Aug 28, 2014)

Gordon said:


> Yup, as soon as I can top up my paypal account, I'll order (or should I say) try to order an AoLong V2 and Gan 357.
> 
> I like the SchengShou Skewb better. I took out the balls (I castrated the Skewb) and springs and now it turns without the clicking and very smooth.
> I maybe try to put in the LanLan springs, but I'm not sure yet.
> ...



I do not have a SS skewb. I do not think I will order one. I just love the MoYu enough.  I do not have original color, so I might order that one. I like original color in cubes.  Yeah, the forgetting of algs is also my problem.. Even with algs as short as skewb algs.. LOL


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## sneaklyfox (Aug 28, 2014)

Gordon said:


> I took out the balls (I castrated the Skewb)



I did a double take on that one.


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## MarcelP (Aug 29, 2014)

Gordon said:


> Yesterday, I've learned some intermediate algos, but I've already forgot them  If I have time, I'll continue today.



Print this out:

http://sarah.cubing.net/skewb/my-method#section/intermediate-variation

Awesome


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## MarcelP (Aug 30, 2014)

Okay, today I had a shortcubing session due to lack of time. But there where some nice solves in there. First there was a nice Ao5 in there (http://youtu.be/GTa1XxLrwgY?list=UUIXTiyCxjMTqLy2P_gV5Vxw) Then I turned the camera off and started to get a 15, and later on a 16. So I turned the camera on again and then I had this amazing (well for me..) fullstep solve 



Spoiler



Generated By csTimer on 2014-8-30
solves/total: 27/27

single
best: 15.49
worst: 27.06

mean of 3
current: 22.33 (σ = 1.69)
best: 17.20 (σ = 2.27)

avg of 5
current: 21.12 (σ = 0.46)
best: 18.30 (σ = 3.84)

avg of 12
current: 20.41 (σ = 2.67)
best: 19.73 (σ = 2.76)

Average: 20.76 (σ = 2.23)
Mean: 20.81

Time List:
1. 20.48 B2 D2 B' R2 B' R2 U2 F' L2 B' U2 R D' L2 U2 L' B' R U' R' F2 
2. 23.19 B R2 U2 L2 B L2 F2 L2 B L2 U' L B' R' D R' F D F2 L2 
3. 17.41 L2 R2 D2 F' U2 F L2 B2 F U2 B D B2 D' L' D2 B D' F' D L' 
4. 26.05 B2 R2 F2 D B2 D B2 U B2 F2 D2 R B F2 R U' L U2 B' D2 U 
5. 21.03 F D' F R F L' B R2 D R' U F2 R2 U R2 B2 U L2 F2 D2 R2 
6. 19.49 F2 D2 L' F' B2 R2 L F2 U R' U2 R D2 F2 L F2 L' B2 D2 F2 
7. 22.99 R2 B' U2 F L2 F L2 U2 R2 U2 F2 D L R2 F U' L' R F' U2 R2 
8. 27.06 U2 L2 D2 R2 U L2 U L2 U' F2 U' R B R' B2 R' B' U' R2 D' F' 
9. 19.68 U2 R' L' D R F L' D2 L' D2 F2 L2 D2 F2 L2 F2 U' L2 U 
10. 20.44 L2 F' L2 D' R' U L D L2 D2 R' D2 R U2 D2 F2 R U2 L2 
11. 18.37 D' B2 D' F2 D' L2 F2 U' L2 U2 L' F2 L D F2 D R' B F U2 
12. 20.53 L2 U' F2 U B2 U' R2 D B2 D' R' B R2 U2 L B U' F2 R' B2 
13. 18.85 R2 D2 B2 R' F2 D2 R' D2 B2 R D' R U2 R' F R2 U2 F' L B2 
14. 24.41 L2 F' L' F' D B2 U' B U F2 B2 L2 B D2 F2 R2 D2 R2 
15. 18.02 U D2 R' D B L D' R' L F' D2 R' F2 R B2 R B2 U2 B2 L2 
16. 23.27 D2 R' D2 L' U2 B2 U2 B2 R' D R' U2 R2 D B F' D2 U' B2 
17. 15.86 R2 U L2 D' U F2 L2 U F2 U F D2 L' F L2 D' U' B2 U B 
18. 23.54 R2 L F' D2 R F2 D B U R' U' F2 U' R2 L2 D B2 L2 U2 R2 U2 
19. 22.73 R U2 R' U2 B2 R' U2 L' B2 F2 L B' D' B' D' U2 B' L' D F L2 
20. 16.32 R D B U' R F U' R2 U' L D R2 U' F2 R2 F2 L2 D F2 R2 
21. 15.49 F' R B D' R U' B' L' B2 U D2 F R2 B2 U2 F2 U2 L2 B2 R2 U2 
22. 19.78 U' L2 B2 F2 U' L2 F2 D' F2 R B2 D' F D' U' R B2 R2 B F2 
23. 19.26 F R' U' D B U R D2 F' D2 L2 F2 R2 B2 U' R2 D' B2 D B2 
24. 20.62 U' R2 U' F2 D' R2 D U2 F2 U' R2 B R' B' D2 R' D' R' B2 D L 
25. 21.20 B' L U2 D R' D F2 B' R' U' B' U2 F' D2 L2 B' D2 R2 L2 F 
26. 24.28 L2 D' B2 R2 F2 D2 F2 D' F2 U F' L' B2 R F2 R D2 R U' 
27. 21.52 B2 L2 U2 B' L2 F' U2 L2 R B R2 B F2 D' U' R2 U2 B'


Breakdown, Cross sub 3, Cross + 1 sub 5, F2L 10, OLL 13, PLL 15.49 
[video=youtube_share;yzi8-P0vzX8]http://youtu.be/yzi8-P0vzX8[/video]


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## Emar19 (Aug 31, 2014)

gewoon blijven oefenen


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## sneaklyfox (Sep 1, 2014)

Thought of something that may or may not be an interesting idea. Let me know what you think.

First, I was thinking about trying a speedBLD. (For those who don't know what it is, it's basically a blind solve and only the execution part is timed. You're supposed to figure out with your usual speedsolving method exactly what you need to do and then just execute.) Then I was thinking about how I need to practice cross+1 and even more blind crosses might help since I haven't done enough of those and suspect that sometimes I am looking at the pieces while I do cross instead of searching for a first pair. Also, I was wondering how long I take to inspect the cube, on average.

My idea is two races.
1) Blind cross race, but timing both inspection and execution. After scrambling, you start the timer, then inspect the cube, then close your eyes (or don blindfold) and do only the cross, then stop the timer.
2) Same idea but blind cross+1 race. More difficult and advanced, of course. Perhaps you would graduate from the blind cross race when you're sub-10, for example?


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## DeeDubb (Sep 2, 2014)

Marcel! We are getting close on the race to Sub-20 Ao100


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## mark49152 (Sep 2, 2014)

sneaklyfox said:


> Thought of something that may or may not be an interesting idea. Let me know what you think.


Why include inspection? I'd be up for a blind cross race (once I have time for cubing at all - I rarely pick one up these days ). 

Blind cross+1 is too hard for me, and speedBLD using a regular solving method like CFOP sounds insane! When I can't even get pair #1 right, my chances of correct PLL are zero .


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## MarcelP (Sep 2, 2014)

sneaklyfox said:


> My idea is two races.
> 1) Blind cross race, but timing both inspection and execution. After scrambling, you start the timer, then inspect the cube, then close your eyes (or don blindfold) and do only the cross, then stop the timer.
> 2) Same idea but blind cross+1 race. More difficult and advanced, of course. Perhaps you would graduate from the blind cross race when you're sub-10, for example?



I like it! I am up for it... Sounds like something you could use to get faster 


DeeDubb said:


> Marcel! We are getting close on the race to Sub-20 Ao100


Yeah! Although I have slacked of a bit.. I have not cubed the way I normally cube for the past week or so and my averages have been a bit worse  I suspect it will pick up again when I have more time.


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## Schmidt (Sep 2, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> Yeah! Although I have slacked of a bit..



...and then this happens
27. 19.47 Schmidt
28. 19.59 Tx789
29. 19.61 MarcelP

Its been a while since I last beat you in 3x3x3


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## MarcelP (Sep 2, 2014)

Schmidt said:


> ...and then this happens
> 27. 19.47 Schmidt
> 28. 19.59 Tx789
> 29. 19.61 MarcelP
> ...



Very nice! Especially since I do not get sub 20 avg's in the weekly competition very often  Are you improving? Or just lucky?


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## Schmidt (Sep 2, 2014)

I only cube for about an hour and a half every Tuesday night, but it might change soon as I'm taking the kids to their sports from next week. Then I'll have half an hour here and there, so I might practice again (or read a book)


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## sneaklyfox (Sep 3, 2014)

mark49152 said:


> Why include inspection? I'd be up for a blind cross race (once I have time for cubing at all - I rarely pick one up these days ).



I include inspection because simply executing blind cross isn't so big of a deal. (I think most of you have done it so then it becomes mostly a matter of execution speed.) The point is to do figure it out fast enough as well. I have been really lazy especially about figuring out the first pair during inspection so I never do it. I don't even look for Xcross and only get them by fluke. I think the pros would figure it out all or most of the time. It would be more motivating for me to see a bigger drop in time.

Edit: Also, for some (more advanced) people who may suspect they don't make good use of their inspection time, if they do the inspection/bld cross in less than 8 or 10 seconds then maybe it's an indication they should work a little harder to also plan first pair. Also, if you know how fast you are at cross in general, this may give you an idea of how long it actually takes you to inspect.


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## sneaklyfox (Sep 3, 2014)

*Inspection/BLD Cross/BLD Cross+1 Race*

Rules:
1) Begin timer before inspection. Stop timer after cross is done (cross+1 for that part of the race). There is no limit on how long you're allowed to inspect, so if it takes you a minute it takes you a minute.
2) Cross or cross+1 is done without looking. You can choose to use a blindfold or just close your eyes.
3) Submit times and average in this thread.

(Note: I am only having this race in Marcel's thread right now to see what happens. If it turns out well, maybe I'll start a new race thread on its own.)

Round 1 (Closing time: Sunday, September 7th, 2014 / 9pm EST)

Cross Scrambles:
1. B2 F2 U2 L2 B2 R' F2 D2 U2 L U2 B' U' L' R' D2 B U' R2 U' L
2. D' R2 U' L2 U' R2 U2 F2 R2 D2 F L' U' F R B R' U2 L2 U2
3. B2 R2 F' L2 B' U2 F2 L2 U2 B U R U' F R' F2 R' D B2
4. B2 D2 B2 R' B2 R' U2 R B2 L' U2 F' D' U' F R D' U2 R' D2 B'
5. B2 F2 R2 D U2 R2 D2 B2 D F2 L2 B R2 D F2 R F' U' L' B2 D'
6. F2 U F2 B U R B2 U' L' F2 B D2 B R2 F2 D2 R2 D2 F' L2
7. U L2 U2 R B R F' R2 L2 U' F2 B2 L' B2 D2 L' B2 R' B2 D2 R2
8. U' L2 U L2 D2 F2 R2 F2 U R2 D R F D2 U2 R2 F' L U L2 F
9. U2 F2 D' B2 U2 F2 D' B2 D' R2 D B L' D B2 U L2 D' U R' U
10. L2 D2 R F2 U2 R B2 L2 D2 L' R' D B2 R' D' L2 F U2 B2 L2 F'
11. D R' B2 R2 D2 R F' D R L2 U2 R2 U' F2 U2 R2 U B2 U2 L2
12. B2 R2 D F R2 L' B' R2 F' U' L2 U R2 D2 B2 D B2 L2 U2 B2

Cross+1 Scrambles:
1. L2 D2 B2 R2 U2 F' D2 F' R2 F2 U2 L' U R2 D' L' B L R F' R' 
2. D2 R2 F2 U2 B2 R2 U F2 R2 D' U2 R' B' R2 F2 U L' D2 B L' F 
3. L2 U' R2 U' F2 D' R2 D U' L F' D' R B2 F R2 U' F' L 
4. R F' R' U' F2 D' F2 B' L' F R2 U' B2 U2 B2 L2 U' F2 R2 U' R2 
5. R2 B2 U2 F' L2 F' U2 L2 F2 R B' F U2 L2 D R' B' L' U 
6. D2 B D2 L2 B' D2 B' R2 F' D2 U2 L' U2 F' R B D' L2 U' R' B 
7. L D2 F2 R' B2 L D2 U2 R B2 R D B R2 D' B' L B R F' R 
8. D L2 B2 D2 B2 U2 L2 U' B2 F2 L2 B F' D R' D B L D' B U 
9. L' F' B' U' R' L' B2 U2 B' L' U' B2 U' F2 R2 U2 F2 B2 
10. F L F2 U B' L2 F L' D2 F' B' L2 B U2 B2 D2 F D2 L2 
11. R' L F L2 F U2 F R F2 U R B2 D2 R2 D2 R' L2 D2 L2 F2 L' 
12. F2 L2 B2 U2 L2 F' D2 L2 D2 R2 D R D B' D L2 R U2 F


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## sneaklyfox (Sep 3, 2014)

Round 1

Insp+BLDcross Average: 9.36
12.46, 14.13, 4.35, (DNF), 5.13, 9.89, 6.12, 10.89, 12.85, (3.78), 11.86, 5.90

Interesting. 4th solve was a messed up cross. Easy to see which ones have the easy crosses... the ones that took me 6 or fewer seconds to do. In normal solving I should definitely have planned the first pair for those as well. I'll try Cross+1 later. I suspect I'll be getting either really really bad times because it will take me forever or lots of DNFs. I'm curious to see what will happen there but I just don't have the time right now. I really need to sleep!

Edit: Psst! Also I got my first sub-1 4x4 solve the other day (57.30) which was really exciting. Didn't want to make a fourth post in a row...


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## MarcelP (Sep 3, 2014)

sneaklyfox said:


> Edit: Psst! Also I got my first sub-1 4x4 solve the other day (57.30) which was really exciting. Didn't want to make a fourth post in a row...



Whooohoo! Very nice. Now start averaging sub 1 

I just did my first round of cross blind and got better times than you. I suspect I might have inspected a few times without starting the timer.. LOL I will do it again tonight.


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## mark49152 (Sep 3, 2014)

sneaklyfox said:


> I include inspection because simply executing blind cross isn't so big of a deal.


I'll give it a go later, but I think it might just be too advanced for me. I do all my cross practice blind, but get frequent DNFs on harder crosses. What I really need to improve (more than execution speed) is reducing DNFs. Not sure how putting pressure on inspection time would help with that - probably I should instead be taking more time to inspect, until I can get the cross right every time.

I did an ao50 last night (solves not cross race) and got 22.36, so almost a couple of seconds worse than a few weeks ago. Lack of practice is evident. It was like a showcase of bad habits - watching the cross, awful transition, no lookahead in F2L, loads of rotations and pauses, etc. It's as if finger speed and knowledge of solution is still there but all the mental discipline stuff just slipped away. I guess that's the hardest part to make stick...


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## MarcelP (Sep 3, 2014)

mark49152 said:


> Not sure how putting pressure on inspection time would help with that - probably I should instead be taking more time to inspect, until I can get the cross right every time.



No, it's like solving with bad lights helps your lookahead in normal daylight, solving Rubiks brand makes normal cubes feel wonderfull, So solving with time pressure trains your brains to work harder, and to get better.




mark49152 said:


> I did an ao50 last night (solves not cross race) and got 22.36, so almost a couple of seconds worse than a few weeks ago. .



Well, 22.36 is not so bad. I get these too on some days. But more often they are sub 21. I think with the slightest amount of 'regular' practice for you will get you at sub 20.


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## mark49152 (Sep 3, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> Well, 22.36 is not so bad. I get these too on some days. But more often they are sub 21. I think with the slightest amount of 'regular' practice for you will get you at sub 20.


A few weeks ago when I was practising a lot, a trend line on my averages showed me passing 20 second ao50 at the end of August. So I reckon I'm about a month of regular practice away from that. The challenge will be finding the time to practise!

What's more interesting is the nature of the degradation of my solves. It seems that good mental technique is hard to turn into habit, whereas bad habits form quickly and easily and are hard to shake off.


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## sneaklyfox (Sep 3, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> I just did my first round of cross blind and got better times than you. I suspect I might have inspected a few times without starting the timer.. LOL I will do it again tonight.



That's nice! You should post your times. Are you doing CN cross or just white or...? I wouldn't be too surprised if you were faster than me. I haven't done much blind cross training. I don't know if being dual colour affects it too because sometimes I start looking at one side and think it's not that easy after all so I switch and consider the other side. If I were white only or single colour it might be faster.


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## MarcelP (Sep 3, 2014)

sneaklyfox said:


> That's nice! You should post your times. Are you doing CN cross or just white or...?



Well if I remember correctly (from this morning) solve 2 is a very easy Blue cross, 3 is an easy orange cross. So yeah, I did it CN. CN helps me finding good easy crosses.


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## sneaklyfox (Sep 4, 2014)

Round 1

Insp+BLDcross+1 Average: DNF
1:25.79, 1:10.41, 2:04.46, 2:17.50, DNF(54.04), 1:47.89, DNF(3:01.12), DNF, DNF, DNF, DNF, DNF

Ok, my brain is fried. I am sooooo slow it's painful. Perhaps a step up from blind cross might be to figure out where a corner will end up or find one that will be in the U layer after cross. Solve 4 was an accidental Xcross so after I did the cross+1 I discovered that I had two pairs in. Solve 5 was the easiest I had but then I messed it up because I forgot which F2L case I had. Solve 7 I forgot my D moves after cross. Then I gave up on the rest of them. Long story short... I suck.


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## MarcelP (Sep 4, 2014)

sneaklyfox said:


> Round 1
> 
> Insp+BLDcross+1 Average: DNF
> 1:25.79, 1:10.41, 2:04.46, 2:17.50, DNF(54.04), 1:47.89, DNF(3:01.12), DNF, DNF, DNF, DNF, DNF
> ...


No you don't suck, it's just very hard..  I did not have the time yesterday evening. I will give it a try toninght. 

Btw, I had my second sub 19 Ao12 ever yesterday when testing a new cube. The Mini Maru CX3-S. It is pretty awesome. So for Schimdt: it might be my new main (when they come with a black version  )


----------



## kcl (Sep 4, 2014)

I'm averaging about 5-7 seconds for BLD cross and 10-15 for cross+1. Accuracy is surprisingly good.


----------



## MarcelP (Sep 4, 2014)

kclejeune said:


> I'm averaging about 5-7 seconds for BLD cross and 10-15 for cross+1. Accuracy is surprisingly good.



That's the difference with people who Ao100 sub 9  LOL.. You are a cube god Kennan.


----------



## sneaklyfox (Sep 4, 2014)

kclejeune said:


> I'm averaging about 5-7 seconds for BLD cross and 10-15 for cross+1. Accuracy is surprisingly good.



Like I said, I suck. Nice, Kennan.


----------



## sk8erman41 (Sep 4, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> Btw, I had my second sub 19 Ao12 ever yesterday when testing a new cube. The Mini Maru CX3-S. It is pretty awesome.



Any issues with the center caps falling off like on the full size? Also AWESOME job on the sub-19! It seems like you hit one of those mental shifts of unexpected improvement lately, keep it going!

E: just got a new PB Ao12 20.20!


Spoiler: stats



Best average of 12: 20.20
(16.75) 22.39 18.63 21.43 19.73 (23.58) 20.72 19.23 22.39 18.76 18.97 19.78

16.75 R2 D' B2 D2 B2 L2 F2 D' R2 U2 L2 B R2 D' U' L U R' L2 U'
22.39 D R2 B2 D' U2 F2 D L2 D F2 L R2 B' D R2 U' R B L' F' R2 U'
18.63 B2 F2 U' R2 F2 U2 R2 F2 D' B' U2 L' U L' D' B R B' U' L' U'
21.43 U2 L2 F2 D2 B2 D2 F2 U B2 U R B D' R2 D2 R L2 D F' U'
19.73 F2 U' B2 D2 L2 F2 U B2 D F U B U F2 L' D' F D B' U2
23.58 B2 D' B2 L2 U' R2 D B2 U' R2 D2 L' D' F' U' F2 L' F2 L2 B D R2
20.72 L2 B2 F2 U2 R2 B2 D' R2 D' L2 F2 R' L2 B D2 R U' F' L2 B' L2 U'
19.23 F2 L2 D2 F2 R2 U2 B2 D' L2 D2 U' F' L' F2 R' D U2 R F' U2 L
22.39 F2 U2 F2 U' B2 R2 U' F2 U F2 U' L' F R B2 U R2 U B' L2 D
18.76 F2 L2 F2 D B2 D L2 D2 U' R2 F2 R U B F R F' D' B2 F R' D2
18.97 U' R2 B2 R2 U' F2 D R2 U2 B2 U' B D' L' U B2 L U R' U2 L D
19.78 R2 U2 F2 D L2 F2 U' R2 U' F2 U' R' D L D R' D U F' L' D


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## sneaklyfox (Sep 5, 2014)

sk8erman41 said:


> E: just got a new PB Ao12 20.20!



Nice! Gogogo sub-20!


----------



## MarcelP (Sep 5, 2014)

sk8erman41 said:


> Any issues with the center caps falling off like on the full size? Also AWESOME job on the sub-19! It seems like you hit one of those mental shifts of unexpected improvement lately, keep it going!



No, they need some forse to be taken off. And yeah, thanks! 



sk8erman41 said:


> just got a new PB Ao12 20.20!



Whhoooheee. Nice going man. Congrats,.. So close to sub 20 :0


----------



## MarcelP (Sep 5, 2014)

sneaklyfox said:


> *Inspection/BLD Cross/BLD Cross+1 Race*



Round 1 cross:


Best average of 12: DNF
1-12 - 10.32 8.55 9.62 18.72 8.30 13.81 DNF 14.09 12.49 8.63 (DNF) (6.46)

I was not fully awake yet apprearantly  All sub 10 solves where none white crosses.


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## Schmidt (Sep 5, 2014)

No need for new cubes (a.k.a. 2 weeks in a row) 
http://www.speedsolving.com/competitions/index.php?showPerson=127


----------



## sk8erman41 (Sep 5, 2014)

sneaklyfox said:


> Nice! Gogogo sub-20!





MarcelP said:


> Whhoooheee. Nice going man. Congrats,.. So close to sub 20 :0



thanks! I feel like I am at the end of a good book. I want to get to the end but don't want it to be over. My entire cubing goal for about the last year or so is a sub-20 global average (I don't think I will be able to get a whole lot faster than this). While I still feel like it will be a while before I am globally sub-20, I am getting ever closer to that soooo very desired Ao12. Today I got this (first 12 timed solves of the day too)... 

Rubik's cube
Sep 5, 2014 3:51:10 PM - 4:00:53 PM

Mean: 19.98
Average: 20.07
Best time: 16.44
Median: 20.04
Worst time: 22.62
Standard deviation: 1.85

Best average of 5: 18.99
8-12 - 19.47 17.80 19.70 (17.54) (22.62)

Best average of 12: 20.07
1-12 - 21.26 20.91 21.99 21.92 20.02 (16.44) 20.05 19.47 17.80 19.70 17.54 (22.62)

1. 21.26 D2 R2 B2 U' B2 D' B2 R2 D R2 U' L' D R' D' L U2 F' D B' D2
2. 20.91 F2 D F2 D F2 L2 U' L2 U2 L2 D L' U2 R' L2 B D' R U2 F L U'
3. 21.99 B2 R2 F2 L2 F2 U' L2 D' B2 L2 F2 L F D L' D2 U' L B' R F' D
4. 21.92 F2 R2 F2 U2 L2 U L2 U R2 L2 B2 R B R2 F2 L' F' U2 R2 L' F' U2
5. 20.02 D F2 R2 B2 L2 F2 L2 D B2 F2 U L D R' D' B' R2 F L' F U2
6. 16.44 F2 U' F2 D2 U R2 F2 U R2 U' B2 L B D B2 U' F D2 U' B F2 L'
7. 20.05 L2 F2 U2 B2 U' F2 L2 D2 R2 F2 U B' R U' F2 L2 D' R' U2 B L U'
8. 19.47 D2 F2 U' L2 F2 D' F2 D F2 L2 D L' U2 F R2 B' L' D2 R B R2
9. 17.80 R2 D' B2 D' F2 U2 F2 L2 D' F2 U2 F' R' L2 B' R B2 L' U F2 R L2
10. 19.70 L2 D' F2 U' B2 R2 U' R2 D' R2 D2 L F D' R' D2 L2 U F' D2 F2 D
11. 17.54 U' F2 R2 U' L2 B2 R2 U L2 F2 D2 R' B2 L B F' R' F L2 B2 U
12. 22.62 D' F2 U B2 L2 F2 D2 L2 F2 L2 D' B U2 F' D L D2 B' L' U' B2 U2

You should have seen my reaction on the last solve... "NOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" lol mean was 19.74 going into solve 12 and needless to say I didn't get it.

I rolled the avg...


Spoiler



Rubik's cube
Sep 5, 2014 3:51:10 PM - 4:09:16 PM

Mean: 20.21
Average: 20.22
Best time: 16.44
Median: 20.14
Worst time: 23.91
Standard deviation: 1.86

Best average of 5: 18.99
8-12 - 19.47 17.80 19.70 (17.54) (21.72)

*Best average of 12: 19.87*
4-15 - 21.92 20.02 (16.44) 20.05 19.47 17.80 19.70 17.54 21.72 (23.91) 20.14 20.33 

1. 21.26 D2 R2 B2 U' B2 D' B2 R2 D R2 U' L' D R' D' L U2 F' D B' D2
2. 20.91 F2 D F2 D F2 L2 U' L2 U2 L2 D L' U2 R' L2 B D' R U2 F L U'
3. 21.99 B2 R2 F2 L2 F2 U' L2 D' B2 L2 F2 L F D L' D2 U' L B' R F' D
4. 21.92 F2 R2 F2 U2 L2 U L2 U R2 L2 B2 R B R2 F2 L' F' U2 R2 L' F' U2
5. 20.02 D F2 R2 B2 L2 F2 L2 D B2 F2 U L D R' D' B' R2 F L' F U2
6. 16.44 F2 U' F2 D2 U R2 F2 U R2 U' B2 L B D B2 U' F D2 U' B F2 L'
7. 20.05 L2 F2 U2 B2 U' F2 L2 D2 R2 F2 U B' R U' F2 L2 D' R' U2 B L U'
8. 19.47 D2 F2 U' L2 F2 D' F2 D F2 L2 D L' U2 F R2 B' L' D2 R B R2
9. 17.80 R2 D' B2 D' F2 U2 F2 L2 D' F2 U2 F' R' L2 B' R B2 L' U F2 R L2
10. 19.70 L2 D' F2 U' B2 R2 U' R2 D' R2 D2 L F D' R' D2 L2 U F' D2 F2 D
11. 17.54 U' F2 R2 U' L2 B2 R2 U L2 F2 D2 R' B2 L B F' R' F L2 B2 U
12. 21.72 R2 U' F2 U B2 L2 U F2 D2 L2 D2 R L D' B F2 R' F' L' B2 R U'
13. 23.91 L2 D L2 U' R2 B2 D' F2 U2 L2 U' B' R' D' U2 R2 F D2 B2 R' B' U2
14. 20.14 F2 L2 D2 B2 R2 U2 B2 D' F2 L2 D R' L' B' L U R' U2 L' F' R2
15. 20.33 B2 F2 U' L2 D2 F2 R2 L2 D' U2 B2 R' B2 D2 F' D B R2 U' L B2 L


----------



## sneaklyfox (Sep 6, 2014)

sk8erman41 said:


> I rolled the avg...
> Best average of 12: 19.87



Well, that was fast...


----------



## MarcelP (Sep 6, 2014)

sk8erman41 said:


> thanks! I feel like I am at the end of a good book.



Yeah! I know what you mean. I kind of feel the same.. But then again, there are so much more puzzles where I want to improve on. 4X4 for example. I want to beat Schmidt's ass in 4X4 for example.. But that is not going to happen any time soon..



Spoiler: Todays 3X3 session



Generated By csTimer on 2014-9-6
solves/total: 150/150

single
best: 14.17
worst: 29.85

mean of 3
current: 20.33 (σ = 0.19)
best: 17.52 (σ = 1.80)

avg of 5
current: 20.33 (σ = 0.19)
best: 18.89 (σ = 0.64)

avg of 12
current: 20.42 (σ = 2.34)
best: 19.84 (σ = 1.61)

avg of 50
current: 21.15 (σ = 1.74)
best: 20.61 (σ = 1.50)

avg of 100
current: 21.04 (σ = 2.05)
best: 20.78 (σ = 1.91)

Average: 20.94 (σ = 1.87)
Mean: 20.98


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## Schmidt (Sep 6, 2014)

At least you have a better official 4x4x4 single than me!


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## MarcelP (Sep 6, 2014)

Schmidt said:


> At least you have a better official 4x4x4 single than me!


Yeah, but since I did that one I think I have had only one or two better than that at home. I still average over 2 mins


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## Schmidt (Sep 9, 2014)

Here is your chance of winning a round of 4x4x4


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## sneaklyfox (Sep 9, 2014)

@Marcel and Schmidt: What method do you use for 4x4?


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## Schmidt (Sep 10, 2014)

Yau, but making the 4th pair and putting it away before I do centers.


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## MarcelP (Sep 10, 2014)

Schmidt said:


> Here is your chance of winning a round of 4x4x4



Ok, I have been practicing 4X4 this week but I highly doubt I could even come close to that. I'll try today..



sneaklyfox said:


> @Marcel and Schmidt: What method do you use for 4x4?



I use Hoya. Awesome method.

Breakdown of this solve:
Three centers 16 secs
All White edges at 42 secs
last centers and egde pairing at 1:11
3X3 on 4X4 finish at 1:45
[video=youtube_share;W787zoOqYXo]http://youtu.be/W787zoOqYXo[/video]


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## ~Adam~ (Sep 10, 2014)

Any chance you have that scramble?
Yellow and white solved?


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## MarcelP (Sep 10, 2014)

cube-o-holic said:


> Any chance you have that scramble?
> Yellow and white solved?



1:45.67 F' L2 R B Uw F B U' Uw' R Fw2 B2 L' U' B2 Uw B Uw' D' F2 R' F R2 Uw' B2 U' Uw L2 D' F2 U' F2 Uw2 F2 B D' F2 Rw2 F U'


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## ~Adam~ (Sep 10, 2014)

Thanks.


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## sneaklyfox (Sep 11, 2014)

Schmidt said:


> Yau, but making the 4th pair and putting it away before I do centers.



? How? I don't get it.

Oh yeah, I didn't see any point to posting the results for Round 1 of inspection and blind cross race. Apparently it's not interesting enough to get participation. I'll have to think of some other way to practice. It's ok. I think I'm getting faster again finally. Getting a lot more 11.xx and 12.xx these days.



MarcelP said:


> 1:45.67 F' L2 R B Uw F B U' Uw' R Fw2 B2 L' U' B2 Uw B Uw' D' F2 R' F R2 Uw' B2 U' Uw L2 D' F2 U' F2 Uw2 F2 B D' F2 Rw2 F U'



Ack... I failed at the edge pairing part. I was hoping for a second sub-1 solve. No luck. 1:00.33.


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## Schmidt (Sep 11, 2014)

sneaklyfox said:


> ? How? I don't get it.
> 
> 
> Ack... I failed at the edge pairing part. I was hoping for a second sub-1 solve. No luck. 1:00.33.



i will use Marcel's scramble(got a 1:13.44)

z'
B' //GW
Lw2 L U' //BW
Rw2 L2 F' //OW
x' Rw' U2 Rw2 Rw3' U' R2 // make RW and put it away in the bottom

hmm that was not the way I did it while timing, but this should give you an idea of how it works. When the centers are done(using inner slice moves to not destroy the last pair) all you have to do is R2 U2 and align the cross and start edge pairing.


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## MarcelP (Sep 11, 2014)

sneaklyfox said:


> I think I'm getting faster again finally. Getting a lot more 11.xx and 12.xx these days.



Nice!! What has made you improve you think? I suspect you will be the first sub 10 mom.. How cool is that?



sneaklyfox said:


> Ack... I failed at the edge pairing part. I was hoping for a second sub-1 solve. No luck. 1:00.33.



Geez what a bad job.. LOL It was a perfect Yau scramble though.. Too bad I do not use Yau


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## sneaklyfox (Sep 12, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> Nice!! What has made you improve you think? I suspect you will be the first sub 10 mom.. How cool is that?



Last year I thought that I might make sub-10 in a year or two, but now I'm beginning to think I'll never get to that point. It's like I'm running out of time to improve fast enough. I'm still improving right now though slowly but there will come one day when my brain cells die too quickly for me to be so fast. I'm not so worried about my hands and fingers though arthritis and the like could possibly kick in some day too. So now I'm just hoping for a sub-13 average in 5 years haha. We shall see, won't we?

What's contributing to my improvement? A few different things maybe. Possibly doing some 4x4 practice, but maybe more from my new practice strategy I started using where I would alternate every ~20 solves between doing smooth flowing but moderate speed on my Shuangren and fast spamming TPS solves on my Weilong. This way, the slower (but not too slow) solves on the SR felt easier to look ahead compared to when I was going as fast as possible and the faster solves on the Weilong let my fingers get used to the speed while my look ahead tried to keep up.


----------



## MarcelP (Sep 12, 2014)

sneaklyfox said:


> What's contributing to my improvement? A few different things maybe. Possibly doing some 4x4 practice, but maybe more from my new practice strategy I started using where I would alternate every ~20 solves between doing smooth flowing but moderate speed on my Shuangren and fast spamming TPS solves on my Weilong. This way, the slower (but not too slow) solves on the SR felt easier to look ahead compared to when I was going as fast as possible and the faster solves on the Weilong let my fingers get used to the speed while my look ahead tried to keep up.



Trying different things is often what makes me improve. I have stopped doing big averages. I kind of started to find them very boring. Instead I do more different puzzles and only untimed solves. I do a few timed solves per day and I think I am sub 20. I still have my bad days, but most days are like this:

[video=youtube_share;Ku8BLduwgJk]http://youtu.be/Ku8BLduwgJk[/video]


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## MarcelP (Sep 14, 2014)

Ok, I did a timed Ao100 because I wanted to know if I was sub 20.. Broke my Ao100. Ao50 and Ao12 (by a lot).



Spoiler



Generated By csTimer on 2014-9-14
solves/total: 100/100

single
best: 14.73
worst: 26.52

mean of 3
current: 18.47 (σ = 1.59)
best: 16.20 (σ = 1.28)

avg of 5
current: 19.94 (σ = 1.33)
best: 17.03 (σ = 0.15) // Almost

avg of 12
current: 18.96 (σ = 1.52)
best: *18.06* (σ = 1.10)

avg of 50
current: 19.88 (σ = 1.79)
best: 19.88 (σ = 1.79)

avg of 100
current: *20.25* (σ = 1.80)
best: 20.25 (σ = 1.80)

Average: 20.25 (σ = 1.80)
Mean: 20.28

Time List:
1. 22.99 B2 R2 F L2 F R2 D2 B F' R' F' U B2 L2 F U L D2 R 
2. 20.07 L D2 F2 L B2 D2 L F2 R' B' F2 U' F2 U2 B' F2 R' B' L' 
3. 22.64 D U2 L2 B2 L2 U' R2 D' B2 U R' F D B L' R2 B' U' L2 F' R2 
4. 18.60 U2 L2 U R2 D' U' L2 U2 R2 U' F' U' L' F2 L B F2 D' F L R2 
5. 23.14 L2 U2 F2 D2 F U2 B D' R' B2 F L' D B2 L2 F 
6. 19.80 F2 U2 F' R2 D2 F' D2 L2 R2 B' R' U' R' U B F D' R2 B F2 
7. 22.26 F' D R' D F' B2 R' U' B' L' B2 D2 L2 B2 U L2 U F2 D' L2 D2 
8. 21.94 B2 R2 B' D2 F' D2 F R2 D2 L2 D2 L' B' U F' U' R D' R D' L 
9. 22.28 D2 B' D2 B D2 F' L2 F R2 B' R2 U' L' U L' D2 U' L2 R D' F' 
10. 18.70 R' F2 R2 F2 U2 L R' U2 B2 R' U2 F R' U F2 U2 F L B2 L' D2 
11. 22.93 U L2 R2 B2 D' L2 U B2 U2 L2 F' U' R' U R2 B' U2 B D' F' 
12. 20.95 D2 B F2 R2 B U2 F' L2 F' D B2 D2 L2 B2 D L U' B' F 
13. 16.72 D' R D2 F D' F2 L2 F R D L2 F2 U' B2 D L2 F2 R2 D2 F2 
14. 20.61 D' F2 D2 L2 R2 B2 D' L2 U' L2 U' F D2 R' U2 B2 D2 U' B' D2 F' 
15. 26.52 L' F2 B L' F R2 F2 B D R F2 U' F2 R2 U R2 B2 R2 B2 R2 U2 
16. 21.32 F2 R U2 F2 L2 F2 L2 R' D2 B2 R2 D' B2 L D L2 R B' D2 U' B' 
17. 19.16 L2 D F2 D2 B2 L2 F2 D L2 D2 U' R' F U B' D F2 L' D F U' 
18. 20.80 U2 D L F U2 D' R U2 B U L2 D' F2 D' F2 D' B2 D' 
19. 19.19 D2 B2 U' L2 R2 U' F2 D R2 D2 B' F U L2 R2 U F R' D' 
20. 20.32 B' U' B2 R L' U R F U' B2 U2 F2 U2 R F2 R2 F2 D2 R' U2 
21. 17.09 D L2 U R2 B2 D' L2 U' R2 D B' U2 R2 F' D' F' R U2 B2 F2 U2 
22. 15.74 U B2 L2 U' B2 F2 D' F2 D B2 F' U R' B R' F' D' U2 B2 R 
23. 19.33 U2 F2 U B2 U2 B2 R2 B2 U F2 U2 F' U' R2 B R2 B R' B2 L 
24. 18.96 D F' L2 U F' R' F' B L' F U2 F' B D2 F2 R2 L2 F' U2 R2 
25. 21.23 U' B2 L2 D2 R2 U' R2 D L2 B2 U2 F U' L' R' B L' F' R2 B' F2 
26. 19.68 R2 B2 R2 B2 D' B2 D' F2 L2 D2 R D' R2 D' F' L2 D B' F2 
27. 20.21 U' D' R F' U D R' F' U2 B' U' L2 F2 D R2 U2 R2 B2 D' F2 R2 
28. 19.77 R2 D' R2 U' B2 F2 U' L2 B2 U2 F L2 F2 D2 L F' R F R' D B' 
29. 20.67 F' R2 F U2 B U2 B' U2 F2 R2 D L' D B U' F2 L R' U2 R2 
30. 23.05 B2 R2 D2 L B2 R' D2 R' D2 R B2 U L' B' R D' R2 U B L' D 
31. 24.00 R2 L' U' L' B' L' B2 D2 F L2 B2 L D2 L F2 L D2 R2 
32. 22.20 L F2 D2 B2 U2 L F2 L2 U2 L2 D' U L' B' F L B2 R' D' R2 
33. 16.47 B R2 B2 L2 F' U2 L2 D2 B U2 F' D B2 L D U L' B2 L B 
34. 25.78 B F L2 D2 F L2 U2 B D2 L2 U' L2 R' B2 D' B' F' L' F D 
35. 21.53 F2 D F2 U' L2 B2 U' R2 U2 B' R2 D2 F' U' B R' U2 L' F2 
36. 22.46 D2 R2 U B2 D' U2 R2 U' L2 F2 U B F2 R' U' F L F2 U2 B' R2 
37. 18.44 U2 B2 D' F2 L2 U2 F2 R2 F2 D' R' F' D L R U R2 B' D' F 
38. 18.03 L' B2 D B D2 R' D' R L' F2 B R2 L2 D2 B2 L2 B D2 
39. 18.98 B2 F2 D F2 D2 R2 F2 D' B2 D' R' F D F' U2 B2 F2 L2 D2 F 
40. 21.94 D2 F2 R' F2 R2 U F B' D F2 R2 B D2 L2 D2 R2 F' D2 B 
41. 21.35 B2 L2 D2 L2 D2 B F2 U R B D2 F R2 U L2 R2 D2 
42. 16.92 B2 U2 R2 F2 U2 R2 D B2 U2 R' D2 U' F D' U' L' B D' F2 
43. 19.58 F L2 F' U2 L2 D2 L2 F2 R2 B L2 D' U' R' D' L F2 U' B L' U 
44. 22.20 R2 F' R2 B2 L2 D2 B' U2 F' L2 F' R U L B F D' F' D2 R F2 
45. 22.29 B' R L B D R2 F D' R2 B R2 U L2 D2 F2 U' R2 U' F2 B2 
46. 20.64 B2 L U2 L F2 U2 F2 L2 B2 L2 R' F U' L R2 U' R' F L' D F2 
47. 22.04 D F' L B2 U D2 R2 F D' B2 R F2 R2 D2 F2 U2 D2 L2 B2 L' 
48. 22.00 B' D R U' L2 B2 R' U2 L2 F D' R2 B2 D' F2 D L2 U' R2 B2 L2 
49. 19.52 F2 R2 F R2 B D2 F2 U' L D2 F2 R2 U2 B D2 F D2 F2 D2 
50. 20.11 F2 R2 B2 D' B2 F2 D' R2 U B2 U F R' U' L2 U2 F U2 B F2 L 
51. 16.57 B2 F2 U' F2 U' R2 B2 R2 U2 R2 B' R F U' L' D L' B L2 D R 
52. 23.31 R2 B L2 B2 R2 D2 L2 B L2 U2 F2 D L' D' B U2 R F L D F2 
53. 23.52 D2 F' R2 D2 B2 L2 U2 B L2 F U B R2 D' B F L' U B R F' 
54. 25.08 R2 D2 L2 R2 B2 D R2 U' R2 D2 F R' F' L2 B L R2 U' L2 D' 
55. 18.62 R2 U' R2 F2 D2 L2 D2 U' F2 L2 F R U F' D F2 U L' R' B2 
56. 19.52 R2 B L2 B2 L2 F' U2 L2 B' L2 F' D' U2 R B2 U L' F2 U L F2 
57. 17.72 D F2 U B2 D' L2 D2 L2 B2 D' L2 B L2 F' U L U2 R' D2 B' D' 
58. 21.37 D2 R2 D' F' L2 U' B2 U2 L' D2 B2 U2 B2 R2 D F2 R2 B2 U2 L2 
59. 21.50 B2 D F2 D F2 D2 F2 L2 R2 F2 U2 R B2 L F' D2 F2 L' B' D2 R' 
60. 17.83 R' B2 L' U2 R2 U2 F2 L R' B2 F D' B' L D' L2 R' D' B U 
61. 20.46 R2 D' L2 D2 B2 D2 R2 U' R2 B2 U2 F L F' D F' U' R2 B' F 
62. 19.59 L2 U2 B D2 L2 F D2 L2 B' R2 F2 U F D' L' D' B2 U L2 D2 L 
63. 19.93 D' L2 F2 L2 U L2 U' L2 R2 D' B F2 D' L B' F2 D2 F' U2 
64. 23.38 F2 D B2 F2 L2 D' F2 U R2 D' L F2 U B U B D' B' U' R 
65. 21.76 L D2 R' B2 R B2 U2 R B2 U2 F2 U' L R2 U' F' U B' D' R' D' 
66. 21.50 L2 B2 R2 D2 F U2 B L2 B' L2 B2 L' D' L' F R2 D' B L2 U F' 
67. 18.67 U' R U2 F R2 L F D B U B R2 D2 F2 R2 D2 F U2 F2 R2 D2 
68. 20.10 U2 B2 L2 D' L2 R2 F2 U F2 L2 U2 L B F2 L2 F' R B D2 L2 R 
69. 23.30 U R2 D R2 U R2 U2 F2 L2 F2 U F D' F2 L' B' R' B2 F' R' 
70. 21.25 U' R' B' R U2 F U2 D R B' L2 D2 B U2 F D2 F' R2 L2 U2 
71. 20.47 R2 F2 R2 D' R2 U' B2 U F2 R' U' L B' R2 B U F' L2 B 
72. 20.76 U L' F U2 B2 D' L' B' D2 R F' D2 L2 B' D2 B' L2 F' B' R2 L2 
73. 21.55 F2 L2 R2 D' F2 U2 F2 U2 L2 D2 B' R' F2 L' U2 B2 F' D B' D U 
74. 17.61 F2 U2 F2 D L2 R2 D B2 F2 L2 D F' D B2 L R2 F' U' B F' D' 
75. 22.06 B' D2 U2 F U2 B R2 F R2 D2 U2 R' B' U R2 U L2 R' D2 B 
76. 21.70 F U2 L2 U' F2 D2 R' U' B' D2 R F2 R' B2 R B2 R' D2 R' U2 
77. 21.63 B2 R2 D2 B2 D2 R' U2 L' D2 R2 D F' D2 L' U2 F L U B' U' R 
78. 21.83 B2 R' B2 F2 L' F2 D2 R B2 F2 L2 U B2 U' R' U' B' F L' D' U' 
79. 19.21 L U2 L2 B2 U2 R' B2 U2 R' D R U R2 D2 U B' U' L B' 
80. 19.67 R D L F2 B U L2 B R2 D' L2 F U2 F2 B U2 F B2 U2 L2 
81. 18.97 D R2 F2 D' R2 D B2 D U R' D F L R2 U2 R2 U F2 U' 
82. 18.54 B2 R D2 L2 D2 R' F2 R' B2 R D2 B L D F U2 L F2 L' U' B 
83. 16.52 L2 B2 L2 D' R2 B2 D' R2 D2 L2 U2 R' B2 D' U L D F' U R D 
84. 19.07 U2 R' D' B2 R' L' B' D' R L2 B2 R2 B R2 U2 F D2 B U2 B2 
85. 19.62 R2 F' D2 F2 D2 F L2 R2 D2 R2 U2 L' B U B2 F' R D' R2 D' U 
86. 18.94 B' R B2 R2 L B' L' F' D' L2 D2 R B2 L F2 U2 D2 R2 U2 R' 
87. 16.95 U2 R2 D' U' F2 R2 U R2 B2 F2 U L' B2 F2 U R2 U' B' U2 L2 D' 
88. 14.73 L2 U2 B D2 B R2 F U2 F' L2 F2 U' L2 R F2 D L D B R2 B2 
89. 16.94 U' B2 L2 F2 U L2 U R2 F2 R2 F' D B' D' R2 D R' D2 R' U 
90. 17.84 D' R' L2 D' L2 U' R2 B L U2 L2 B2 L2 F2 D' L2 U' L2 U B2 
91. 17.21 U L2 D L2 F2 L2 U' L2 U F2 U' L' B R' D' B' U F2 U2 L U' 
92. 20.18 D2 R U2 L' U2 L2 B2 L' D2 B2 R' B U B' U' B2 U' B2 F L2 
93. 20.56 L' F R2 F' B' L2 U R' U' B' U' L2 D2 B2 R2 F2 R2 U' B2 L2 
94. 19.42 U' F2 D B' R D2 B R D' R L2 U F2 R2 D' L2 F2 D F2 U' D2 
95. 17.63 L2 U B2 D F2 U2 L2 D2 F' L2 B' U' F' D2 U2 R' F' U 
96. 21.25 R2 U2 F2 D U F2 R2 F2 D' F R' D2 F2 L2 U B' L R D' 
97. 23.41 F2 U2 L2 U' L2 B2 L2 R2 U2 L2 R' B' D' L2 B L' F' L' F' D2 
98. 18.59 R U2 L2 F2 L F2 U2 B2 R' B F L' B' D F R U2 B' D' 
99. 16.82 L' B U' F2 L B U R' U B2 D2 F B2 U2 R2 B D2 R2 B 
100. 20.00 L' U2 L' F2 R F2 U2 R' D2 F2 R D R' B' L2 B D2 F' L' B' D



EDIT, I rolled the averages to 125:



Spoiler: Whhhoooohooo!!!



Generated By csTimer on 2014-9-14
solves/total: 125/125

single
best: 14.73
worst: 26.52

mean of 3
current: 22.18 (σ = 1.36)
best: 16.20 (σ = 1.28)

avg of 5
current: 22.18 (σ = 1.36)
best: 17.03 (σ = 0.15)

avg of 12
current: 20.71 (σ = 1.52)
best: 18.06 (σ = 1.10)

avg of 50
current: 19.69 (σ = 1.51)
best: *19.56 *(σ = 1.44)

avg of 100
current: 20.21 (σ = 1.71)
best:* 19.99* (σ = 1.68)

Average: 20.27 (σ = 1.68)
Mean: 20.29

Time List:
1. 22.99 B2 R2 F L2 F R2 D2 B F' R' F' U B2 L2 F U L D2 R 
2. 20.07 L D2 F2 L B2 D2 L F2 R' B' F2 U' F2 U2 B' F2 R' B' L' 
3. 22.64 D U2 L2 B2 L2 U' R2 D' B2 U R' F D B L' R2 B' U' L2 F' R2 
4. 18.60 U2 L2 U R2 D' U' L2 U2 R2 U' F' U' L' F2 L B F2 D' F L R2 
5. 23.14 L2 U2 F2 D2 F U2 B D' R' B2 F L' D B2 L2 F 
6. 19.80 F2 U2 F' R2 D2 F' D2 L2 R2 B' R' U' R' U B F D' R2 B F2 
7. 22.26 F' D R' D F' B2 R' U' B' L' B2 D2 L2 B2 U L2 U F2 D' L2 D2 
8. 21.94 B2 R2 B' D2 F' D2 F R2 D2 L2 D2 L' B' U F' U' R D' R D' L 
9. 22.28 D2 B' D2 B D2 F' L2 F R2 B' R2 U' L' U L' D2 U' L2 R D' F' 
10. 18.70 R' F2 R2 F2 U2 L R' U2 B2 R' U2 F R' U F2 U2 F L B2 L' D2 
11. 22.93 U L2 R2 B2 D' L2 U B2 U2 L2 F' U' R' U R2 B' U2 B D' F' 
12. 20.95 D2 B F2 R2 B U2 F' L2 F' D B2 D2 L2 B2 D L U' B' F 
13. 16.72 D' R D2 F D' F2 L2 F R D L2 F2 U' B2 D L2 F2 R2 D2 F2 
14. 20.61 D' F2 D2 L2 R2 B2 D' L2 U' L2 U' F D2 R' U2 B2 D2 U' B' D2 F' 
15. 26.52 L' F2 B L' F R2 F2 B D R F2 U' F2 R2 U R2 B2 R2 B2 R2 U2 
16. 21.32 F2 R U2 F2 L2 F2 L2 R' D2 B2 R2 D' B2 L D L2 R B' D2 U' B' 
17. 19.16 L2 D F2 D2 B2 L2 F2 D L2 D2 U' R' F U B' D F2 L' D F U' 
18. 20.80 U2 D L F U2 D' R U2 B U L2 D' F2 D' F2 D' B2 D' 
19. 19.19 D2 B2 U' L2 R2 U' F2 D R2 D2 B' F U L2 R2 U F R' D' 
20. 20.32 B' U' B2 R L' U R F U' B2 U2 F2 U2 R F2 R2 F2 D2 R' U2 
21. 17.09 D L2 U R2 B2 D' L2 U' R2 D B' U2 R2 F' D' F' R U2 B2 F2 U2 
22. 15.74 U B2 L2 U' B2 F2 D' F2 D B2 F' U R' B R' F' D' U2 B2 R 
23. 19.33 U2 F2 U B2 U2 B2 R2 B2 U F2 U2 F' U' R2 B R2 B R' B2 L 
24. 18.96 D F' L2 U F' R' F' B L' F U2 F' B D2 F2 R2 L2 F' U2 R2 
25. 21.23 U' B2 L2 D2 R2 U' R2 D L2 B2 U2 F U' L' R' B L' F' R2 B' F2 
26. 19.68 R2 B2 R2 B2 D' B2 D' F2 L2 D2 R D' R2 D' F' L2 D B' F2 
27. 20.21 U' D' R F' U D R' F' U2 B' U' L2 F2 D R2 U2 R2 B2 D' F2 R2 
28. 19.77 R2 D' R2 U' B2 F2 U' L2 B2 U2 F L2 F2 D2 L F' R F R' D B' 
29. 20.67 F' R2 F U2 B U2 B' U2 F2 R2 D L' D B U' F2 L R' U2 R2 
30. 23.05 B2 R2 D2 L B2 R' D2 R' D2 R B2 U L' B' R D' R2 U B L' D 
31. 24.00 R2 L' U' L' B' L' B2 D2 F L2 B2 L D2 L F2 L D2 R2 
32. 22.20 L F2 D2 B2 U2 L F2 L2 U2 L2 D' U L' B' F L B2 R' D' R2 
33. 16.47 B R2 B2 L2 F' U2 L2 D2 B U2 F' D B2 L D U L' B2 L B 
34. 25.78 B F L2 D2 F L2 U2 B D2 L2 U' L2 R' B2 D' B' F' L' F D 
35. 21.53 F2 D F2 U' L2 B2 U' R2 U2 B' R2 D2 F' U' B R' U2 L' F2 
36. 22.46 D2 R2 U B2 D' U2 R2 U' L2 F2 U B F2 R' U' F L F2 U2 B' R2 
37. 18.44 U2 B2 D' F2 L2 U2 F2 R2 F2 D' R' F' D L R U R2 B' D' F 
38. 18.03 L' B2 D B D2 R' D' R L' F2 B R2 L2 D2 B2 L2 B D2 
39. 18.98 B2 F2 D F2 D2 R2 F2 D' B2 D' R' F D F' U2 B2 F2 L2 D2 F 
40. 21.94 D2 F2 R' F2 R2 U F B' D F2 R2 B D2 L2 D2 R2 F' D2 B 
41. 21.35 B2 L2 D2 L2 D2 B F2 U R B D2 F R2 U L2 R2 D2 
42. 16.92 B2 U2 R2 F2 U2 R2 D B2 U2 R' D2 U' F D' U' L' B D' F2 
43. 19.58 F L2 F' U2 L2 D2 L2 F2 R2 B L2 D' U' R' D' L F2 U' B L' U 
44. 22.20 R2 F' R2 B2 L2 D2 B' U2 F' L2 F' R U L B F D' F' D2 R F2 
45. 22.29 B' R L B D R2 F D' R2 B R2 U L2 D2 F2 U' R2 U' F2 B2 
46. 20.64 B2 L U2 L F2 U2 F2 L2 B2 L2 R' F U' L R2 U' R' F L' D F2 
47. 22.04 D F' L B2 U D2 R2 F D' B2 R F2 R2 D2 F2 U2 D2 L2 B2 L' 
48. 22.00 B' D R U' L2 B2 R' U2 L2 F D' R2 B2 D' F2 D L2 U' R2 B2 L2 
49. 19.52 F2 R2 F R2 B D2 F2 U' L D2 F2 R2 U2 B D2 F D2 F2 D2 
50. 20.11 F2 R2 B2 D' B2 F2 D' R2 U B2 U F R' U' L2 U2 F U2 B F2 L 
51. 16.57 B2 F2 U' F2 U' R2 B2 R2 U2 R2 B' R F U' L' D L' B L2 D R 
52. 23.31 R2 B L2 B2 R2 D2 L2 B L2 U2 F2 D L' D' B U2 R F L D F2 
53. 23.52 D2 F' R2 D2 B2 L2 U2 B L2 F U B R2 D' B F L' U B R F' 
54. 25.08 R2 D2 L2 R2 B2 D R2 U' R2 D2 F R' F' L2 B L R2 U' L2 D' 
55. 18.62 R2 U' R2 F2 D2 L2 D2 U' F2 L2 F R U F' D F2 U L' R' B2 
56. 19.52 R2 B L2 B2 L2 F' U2 L2 B' L2 F' D' U2 R B2 U L' F2 U L F2 
57. 17.72 D F2 U B2 D' L2 D2 L2 B2 D' L2 B L2 F' U L U2 R' D2 B' D' 
58. 21.37 D2 R2 D' F' L2 U' B2 U2 L' D2 B2 U2 B2 R2 D F2 R2 B2 U2 L2 
59. 21.50 B2 D F2 D F2 D2 F2 L2 R2 F2 U2 R B2 L F' D2 F2 L' B' D2 R' 
60. 17.83 R' B2 L' U2 R2 U2 F2 L R' B2 F D' B' L D' L2 R' D' B U 
61. 20.46 R2 D' L2 D2 B2 D2 R2 U' R2 B2 U2 F L F' D F' U' R2 B' F 
62. 19.59 L2 U2 B D2 L2 F D2 L2 B' R2 F2 U F D' L' D' B2 U L2 D2 L 
63. 19.93 D' L2 F2 L2 U L2 U' L2 R2 D' B F2 D' L B' F2 D2 F' U2 
64. 23.38 F2 D B2 F2 L2 D' F2 U R2 D' L F2 U B U B D' B' U' R 
65. 21.76 L D2 R' B2 R B2 U2 R B2 U2 F2 U' L R2 U' F' U B' D' R' D' 
66. 21.50 L2 B2 R2 D2 F U2 B L2 B' L2 B2 L' D' L' F R2 D' B L2 U F' 
67. 18.67 U' R U2 F R2 L F D B U B R2 D2 F2 R2 D2 F U2 F2 R2 D2 
68. 20.10 U2 B2 L2 D' L2 R2 F2 U F2 L2 U2 L B F2 L2 F' R B D2 L2 R 
69. 23.30 U R2 D R2 U R2 U2 F2 L2 F2 U F D' F2 L' B' R' B2 F' R' 
70. 21.25 U' R' B' R U2 F U2 D R B' L2 D2 B U2 F D2 F' R2 L2 U2 
71. 20.47 R2 F2 R2 D' R2 U' B2 U F2 R' U' L B' R2 B U F' L2 B 
72. 20.76 U L' F U2 B2 D' L' B' D2 R F' D2 L2 B' D2 B' L2 F' B' R2 L2 
73. 21.55 F2 L2 R2 D' F2 U2 F2 U2 L2 D2 B' R' F2 L' U2 B2 F' D B' D U 
74. 17.61 F2 U2 F2 D L2 R2 D B2 F2 L2 D F' D B2 L R2 F' U' B F' D' 
75. 22.06 B' D2 U2 F U2 B R2 F R2 D2 U2 R' B' U R2 U L2 R' D2 B 
76. 21.70 F U2 L2 U' F2 D2 R' U' B' D2 R F2 R' B2 R B2 R' D2 R' U2 
77. 21.63 B2 R2 D2 B2 D2 R' U2 L' D2 R2 D F' D2 L' U2 F L U B' U' R 
78. 21.83 B2 R' B2 F2 L' F2 D2 R B2 F2 L2 U B2 U' R' U' B' F L' D' U' 
79. 19.21 L U2 L2 B2 U2 R' B2 U2 R' D R U R2 D2 U B' U' L B' 
80. 19.67 R D L F2 B U L2 B R2 D' L2 F U2 F2 B U2 F B2 U2 L2 
81. 18.97 D R2 F2 D' R2 D B2 D U R' D F L R2 U2 R2 U F2 U' 
82. 18.54 B2 R D2 L2 D2 R' F2 R' B2 R D2 B L D F U2 L F2 L' U' B 
83. 16.52 L2 B2 L2 D' R2 B2 D' R2 D2 L2 U2 R' B2 D' U L D F' U R D 
84. 19.07 U2 R' D' B2 R' L' B' D' R L2 B2 R2 B R2 U2 F D2 B U2 B2 
85. 19.62 R2 F' D2 F2 D2 F L2 R2 D2 R2 U2 L' B U B2 F' R D' R2 D' U 
86. 18.94 B' R B2 R2 L B' L' F' D' L2 D2 R B2 L F2 U2 D2 R2 U2 R' 
87. 16.95 U2 R2 D' U' F2 R2 U R2 B2 F2 U L' B2 F2 U R2 U' B' U2 L2 D' 
88. 14.73 L2 U2 B D2 B R2 F U2 F' L2 F2 U' L2 R F2 D L D B R2 B2 
89. 16.94 U' B2 L2 F2 U L2 U R2 F2 R2 F' D B' D' R2 D R' D2 R' U 
90. 17.84 D' R' L2 D' L2 U' R2 B L U2 L2 B2 L2 F2 D' L2 U' L2 U B2 
91. 17.21 U L2 D L2 F2 L2 U' L2 U F2 U' L' B R' D' B' U F2 U2 L U' 
92. 20.18 D2 R U2 L' U2 L2 B2 L' D2 B2 R' B U B' U' B2 U' B2 F L2 
93. 20.56 L' F R2 F' B' L2 U R' U' B' U' L2 D2 B2 R2 F2 R2 U' B2 L2 
94. 19.42 U' F2 D B' R D2 B R D' R L2 U F2 R2 D' L2 F2 D F2 U' D2 
95. 17.63 L2 U B2 D F2 U2 L2 D2 F' L2 B' U' F' D2 U2 R' F' U 
96. 21.25 R2 U2 F2 D U F2 R2 F2 D' F R' D2 F2 L2 U B' L R D' 
97. 23.41 F2 U2 L2 U' L2 B2 L2 R2 U2 L2 R' B' D' L2 B L' F' L' F' D2 
98. 18.59 R U2 L2 F2 L F2 U2 B2 R' B F L' B' D F R U2 B' D' 
99. 16.82 L' B U' F2 L B U R' U B2 D2 F B2 U2 R2 B D2 R2 B 
100. 20.00 L' U2 L' F2 R F2 U2 R' D2 F2 R D R' B' L2 B D2 F' L' B' D 
101. 19.36 B2 D' B2 F2 D L2 R2 F2 D' U' L2 B D' F R' F U2 L2 F2 U' L' 
102. 17.63 B' R2 D2 R2 U2 F' D2 B' R2 U2 F' U L B D' L2 F' R2 B2 R2 B 
103. 19.51 B2 R U2 B2 R D2 B2 D2 F2 R2 U2 B' R U' L' D R B' L D' L' 
104. 21.00 L U L2 D' F' U' B2 L' D' F U L2 F2 L2 U' B2 D' R2 U' F2 L2 
105. 20.53 R2 B2 D' B2 D U2 R2 F2 U F2 U2 B D U' L' D B D' F' L D' 
106. 22.86 U2 L' U2 R D2 R2 D2 R' D2 R2 F' L2 F2 D U' R' U' L' F' U2 
107. 17.33 L2 D2 B2 D2 R' F2 L R B2 R D2 F D' U' F' R B D' F2 L F 
108. 20.71 U2 R2 D2 L B2 F2 R D2 U2 B2 L' D F' L R U2 F R' U B2 L' 
109. 20.61 B' R2 B L2 B F2 L2 F U2 F' L2 U L' U' R B' R D2 R2 F' 
110. 20.53 R2 U' F2 U B2 L2 U B2 F2 R2 F' D L' U2 B L2 D' F2 U R 
111. 19.93 R2 F2 U2 F R2 F' L2 U2 B D' L' U R' D2 B D' R2 F U2 B' 
112. 20.92 U2 B2 U2 L2 B' L2 R2 B' F2 D2 R D' L R' U F U B' D2 B2 
113. 19.05 F' L2 R2 D2 B2 F' L2 B D2 B2 U2 L' F' R2 D L' D' U' L2 B' F2 
114. 18.50 R2 B R2 B' R2 F' R2 B2 D2 F U2 R F2 L' F2 U' L R' D B' D2 
115. 17.16 B2 D2 R2 F2 U2 L R U2 R2 B' D B' D B' R B' L' R' 
116. 19.93 D' B2 D' L2 U L2 U F2 U' L2 R' U2 R D' R D R2 B' D2 F 
117. 18.84 L2 D L' B L F' R2 D B R U2 R F2 B2 L2 U2 L D2 R B2 
118. 20.35 D' F2 U R2 D F2 U B2 U' B2 U' L' B U R D L2 D B U2 R' 
119. 21.70 L2 D2 F' R2 F' D2 L2 U2 B2 R2 U2 R D L F U B2 L2 R F U2 
120. 21.18 L2 R2 B2 D2 F D2 B' D2 L2 B' F' U R' D' L2 B D' U B' L F 
121. 20.05 D2 R2 B' F' L2 B' R2 F D2 F U' L' D L' D F' L2 D L D 
122. 23.79+ U2 L' F2 U2 R' F2 L' U2 L2 D' U2 L' D' B' F R' U' B2 U' 
123. 21.94 D' U2 R2 F2 D2 L2 B2 D' F2 R2 U2 R' B2 U' F' L2 D R2 B' D R2 
124. 23.64 D B2 D' F2 L2 R2 D R2 D2 B2 F U' B L R2 D L2 U' R' D 
125. 20.96 B2 D' U2 B2 U2 R2 B2 L2 D R B2 U F' U B F D F' U'


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## mark49152 (Sep 14, 2014)

Awesome Marcel, sub-20!


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## MarcelP (Sep 15, 2014)

mark49152 said:


> Awesome Marcel, sub-20!


Yeah, pretty awesome I think. I have waited sooooo long for this average..  LOL Now that I looked back at the numbers, I could have stopped after solve 117 since it all went to hell after that.


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## mark49152 (Sep 15, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> Yeah, pretty awesome I think. I have waited sooooo long for this average..  LOL Now that I looked back at the numbers, I could have stopped after solve 117 since it all went to hell after that.


So what is your target now? Are you aiming for a faster time, or more consistent sub-20?


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## MarcelP (Sep 15, 2014)

My first target is a sub 25 official average. Although that might seem so easy, for me that is quite hard. I loose all control when on the spot  My next focus is getting better OH times. I have been practicing OH for roughly a month and I have dropped from averaging 2 minutes to 1.20 or so.. I want to be sub 1. I have no real target for 3X3. I am fine where I am now. I will continue to practise and will see what happens. How are your averages? Did you find the time again to cube more?


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## mark49152 (Sep 15, 2014)

No, my averages are around 22-23 these days. I picked up a cube for the first time in over a week yesterday, and got 22.88 ao50. I'm still aiming for sub-20 by end of the year though.


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## Rocky0701 (Sep 15, 2014)

Nice job Marcel! Finally. I haven't been cubing much since school sarted, you are probably at least a second faster than me now.


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## MarcelP (Sep 16, 2014)

Rocky0701 said:


> Nice job Marcel! Finally. I haven't been cubing much since school sarted, you are probably at least a second faster than me now.



You better start praticing then  You will catch me up easily I suspect.


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## mark49152 (Sep 16, 2014)

mark49152 said:


> I picked up a cube for the first time in over a week yesterday, and got 22.88 ao50.


Ao50 = 21.09 this lunchtime. Nice to see speed coming back quickly after a break. Generally it felt good - steady and calm. SD was 2.18, my highest since May, reflecting the mixture of decent sub-20 solves and horrible 24-25 screw-ups.

Not sure about my AoLong v2 though. I'm trying to stick with it to break it in, but I do prefer both the v1 and the WeiLong.


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## MarcelP (Sep 16, 2014)

mark49152 said:


> Ao50 = 21.09 this lunchtime. Nice to see speed coming back quickly after a break. Generally it felt good - steady and calm. SD was 2.18, my highest since May, reflecting the mixture of decent sub-20 solves and horrible 24-25 screw-ups.
> 
> Not sure about my AoLong v2 though. I'm trying to stick with it to break it in, but I do prefer both the v1 and the WeiLong.



Nice... yeah stick with V2. It is the best cube every made once broken in


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## mark49152 (Sep 16, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> Nice... yeah stick with V2. It is the best cube every made once broken in


The feel is OK but I find it locks more than the v1 and I also get way more corner twists. What's your experience?


----------



## MarcelP (Sep 16, 2014)

No, I have way less cornertwists. And the locking might be due to tight tentions. Try loosen to the point where you don't have pops.


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## mark49152 (Sep 16, 2014)

Yeah when loosened it was less controllable and therefore locked more. I haven't found decent tensions yet.


----------



## sneaklyfox (Sep 16, 2014)

Marcel, I just watched your latest video that was posted and... ugh... I also hate E perms. My recognition is worst on them. You (and I) should probably work on better recog for that case. I thought you worked on some 2-sided PLL recognition, no?


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## MarcelP (Sep 16, 2014)

sneaklyfox said:


> Marcel, I just watched your latest video that was posted and... ugh... I also hate E perms. My recognition is worst on them. You (and I) should probably work on better recog for that case. I thought you worked on some 2-sided PLL recognition, no?



Yeah E perm sucks. But I must say, after seeing Chris (cyoteking) video how to perform E perm like a pro I can do it better and faster. First of all I do not need to align the centers to their colors. You just look at the color of the center edge in the top layer on F. If it matches the upper right back or upper left back sticker, then you are good to go with this algorithm of Chris. If the colors do not match, just do a y of y'.


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## mark49152 (Sep 16, 2014)

E perm alg is one of my favourites, but recognition isn't so fast for me. Usually I recognize it from two sides as a sort of checker of five with odd middle colour - like BOGOB or RBOBR.


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## sneaklyfox (Sep 16, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> First of all I do not need to align the centers to their colors. You just look at the color of the center edge in the top layer on F. If it matches the upper right back or upper left back sticker, then you are good to go with this algorithm of Chris. If the colors do not match, just do a y of y'.



My execution is fine (exact same way as in the video). Didn't think of that edge colour matching the back corners though. That would come in handy, thanks for the tip. Now, after practice and implementation maybe my E perms will be 0.4 faster.


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## MarcelP (Sep 16, 2014)

mark49152 said:


> E perm alg is one of my favourites, but recognition isn't so fast for me. Usually I recognize it from two sides as a sort of checker of five with odd middle colour - like BOGOB or RBOBR.


I have just learned this alg when Chris posted the video. I learn al his algs now. And with me it takes many weeks before I can excecute fast. And in the way there I mix up other algs because of the just learned alg  But I figure, in the end it is better to learn the best algs.. I have proven to improve my LL from 8-9 seconds to 5-6 



sneaklyfox said:


> My execution is fine (exact same way as in the video). Didn't think of that edge colour matching the back corners though. That would come in handy, thanks for the tip. Now, after practice and implementation maybe my E perms will be 0.4 faster.


OMG, I learned Melody something cube related  Jay! 0.4 is almost half a second.


----------



## Logiqx (Sep 17, 2014)

Nice to see your progress continuing guys... sub-20 (Ao100) from Marcel and good PBs from Mark prior to some time off.

I also had a few weeks off in August / September but with two new cubes (AoLong V1 + V2) and a week of solid practice, I'm setting some new PBs again and I seem more consistent from one day to the next.

During my lunchtime Ao50 sessions this week, I've been consistently getting 16.x single, 19.x Ao5, 20.x Ao12 and 21.x Ao50. Hopefully it won't be long until I get a sub-20 Ao12 then it's all about getting my global average down under 20s!

I got another over-40 friend hooked on cubing a few months ago so I'm looking forward to seeing how he's getting on when I next see him!

Edit:

Oh yes... I got my second ever cross skip today (first was green cross, this one was red cross) but I seriously messed up the solve and it was about 22s, lol.


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## MarcelP (Sep 17, 2014)

Logiqx said:


> I also had a few weeks off in August / September but with two new cubes (AoLong V1 + V2) and a week of solid practice, I'm setting some new PBs again and I seem more consistent from one day to the next.



what is that makes you improve after taking a break. Many people have had these.  Good stuf.. Looks like you will be sub 20 soon. I had my 4th sub 19 Ao12 today. Ao100 was low 20. with a full step 15.04 (or so)..


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## Logiqx (Sep 17, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> what is that makes you improve after taking a break. Many people have had these.



Maybe it causes us to slow down or focus the more on the important aspects of our solving (e.g. well planned cross, good look-ahead)? I was initially about 1 second slower when I came back but my previous times soon returned after a few days of practice.

The other thing is an evening doing casual Roux solves in front of the TV (non-timed) often results in faster CFOP solves for me the next day. It feels like my CFOP look-ahead is improved... possibly due to the way I view the cube during Roux solves.

The new cubes are super nice. I currently like the V1 best (out of the box and after a bit of breaking in) but I'm using the V2 for non-timed solves and general practice. I haven't got around to lubing the cores or re-tensioning yet but they are still nicer than my Weilongs.



MarcelP said:


> Good stuf.. Looks like you will be sub 20 soon.



Hopefully! I know it will come with practice.



MarcelP said:


> I had my 4th sub 19 Ao12 today. Ao100 was low 20. with a full step 15.04 (or so).



Nice. Until my 14.93 a few days ago (PLL skip) I had a couple of full-step 15.0x solves. My most satisfying solves over the past few days have been full step with a fairly normal OLL then an N-perm in 17.x.


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## MarcelP (Sep 19, 2014)

For the upcomming competitions have I been practicing with a stackmat timer.

(3rd solve is the nicest  )
[video=youtube_share;Lzg9dofA9qg]http://youtu.be/Lzg9dofA9qg[/video]

In the beginning I got 23 and 24's and I was like.. O o... But soon after a while I got my normal averages.  In fact I just did my first none rolling sub 20 Ao12 with stackmat timer. I am so excited:


Spoiler



Rubik's cube
19-sep-2014 14:43:25 - 14:53:00

Mean: 20.23
Average: 19.93
Best time: 16.78
Median: 19.31
Worst time: 26.63
Standard deviation: 2.65

Best average of 5: 18.64
8-12 - 18.32 19.40 (16.78) 18.21 (22.97)

Best average of 12: 19.93
1-12 - 22.82 18.44 21.21 19.21 18.29 (26.63) 20.47 18.32 19.40 (16.78) 18.21 22.97

1. 22.82 D L2 F2 D' F2 R2 U' L2 B2 F2 U2 R' F' L' D2 B U' L' B F' U2
2. 18.44 R2 U2 B2 U' R2 U' R2 F2 R2 F2 U' B R' L F L2 B U F D' L U2
3. 21.21 D' R2 B2 U2 R2 D' R2 B2 D' U' R' D2 B' R2 L2 D' F R2 B' U
4. 19.21 L2 U' B2 U' B2 D L2 D U2 F2 U2 B' U' F2 R' B F' L2 U L2 U2
5. 18.29 D U2 R2 D' L2 U' L2 U F2 U' R D F2 R D U L2 B' L D U2
6. 26.63 R2 B2 D2 R2 U2 R2 D B2 D B2 L R2 B U2 L2 U F R2 F2 R' D'
7. 20.47 R2 D2 B2 U F2 D' B2 F2 U2 R2 U' B R L' F2 D' R U' L' U' R
8. 18.32 B2 F2 U2 L2 F2 D R2 U' F2 D' U' R U R' D L' U F' L2 D'
9. 19.40 D U R2 F2 D2 R2 D B2 U2 F2 R2 B R' D2 L D R B' R F' D' L
10. 16.78 R2 U F2 R2 U R2 L2 F2 D F2 D' L D2 U F R2 F R L B' R2 L2
11. 18.21 D2 R2 U' R2 B2 U R2 L2 B2 L2 U' B L' D' R' B2 D' R U B' U' F'
12. 22.97 B2 U2 R2 B2 D' F2 R2 F2 U F' U2 R D' R2 L' F L' F2 L' D2



I think I am ready as I will ever be for competition.


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## Schmidt (Sep 19, 2014)

Go go sub 25 in official competition. Good luck.


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## MarcelP (Sep 19, 2014)

Schmidt said:


> Go go sub 25 in official competition. Good luck.



Thanks. 28th I have my first competition. I am already excited.


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## sk8erman41 (Sep 19, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> Thanks. 28th I have my first competition. I am already excited.


Nice! Forget sub-25, you got this!!!! GOGOGO sub-20


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## MarcelP (Sep 19, 2014)

sk8erman41 said:


> Nice! Forget sub-25, you got this!!!! GOGOGO sub-20



No, at home I am barely sub 20.. at comps I am a lot worse.. LOL But thanks for the cheers!


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## sneaklyfox (Sep 20, 2014)

Exciting times, Marcel. Less pressure is better. Just beat your competition PBs and be happy. I wonder when I'll get to go to competition again. I need to at least have a sub-15 official average...


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## Kirjava (Sep 20, 2014)

turn off your guidance system


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## MarcelP (Sep 20, 2014)

sneaklyfox said:


> I wonder when I'll get to go to competition again. I need to at least have a sub-15 official average...



Yeah, you need to. But.. the harder you want something the harder it will be to get. 



Kirjava said:


> turn off your guidance system



What is a guidance system?


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## Schmidt (Sep 20, 2014)

I think he is giving you some kind of Obi-Wan Kenobi advice.


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## MarcelP (Sep 20, 2014)

Ahh, I could use some force


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## sneaklyfox (Sep 21, 2014)

Ooh... want to share this Ao5...

(12.32), (14.88), 12.58, 12.73, 14.80 = *13.37*


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## MarcelP (Sep 21, 2014)

sneaklyfox said:


> Ooh... want to share this Ao5...
> 
> (12.32), (14.88), 12.58, 12.73, 14.80 = *13.37*



Jay!! That is pretty cool!!

I just had this one:

67. 13.04 L2 B2 U2 B2 U' L2 F2 D B2 L2 U F R2 F2 D R U L B2 R D

y // inspection
D' L U' B2 D2 // cross
R' U R U2 y' L' U' L //1st F2L
R U R' //2nd F2L
y U' R' U R U' y R U' R' // 3rd
y' U2 R U' R U R U R' U2 R U' R //last

R U R' U' l x R' U R U' L //OLL
PLL skip


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## Rocky0701 (Sep 21, 2014)

sneaklyfox said:


> Ooh... want to share this Ao5...
> 
> (12.32), (14.88), 12.58, 12.73, 14.80 = *13.37*


Y34h, 7h4t 1s 4w3s0m3. Haha 1337 speak is fun.

Also, nice solve Marcel! I just got an 18.79 ao12  PB


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## sneaklyfox (Sep 21, 2014)

Rocky0701 said:


> Y34h, 7h4t 1s 4w3s0m3. Haha 1337 speak is fun.



7h4nk5. And congrats on new PB! I think it's only a matter of time before I beat my PBs again. I'm getting closer with more ease.


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## Rocky0701 (Sep 21, 2014)

sneaklyfox said:


> 7h4nk5. And congrats on new PB! I think it's only a matter of time before I beat my PBs again. I'm getting closer with more ease.


Thanks, your cubes solved YTD is amazing! Do you have any goals as to what you want to get to before the end of the year? 36,500 would be a cool milestone.


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## Rocky0701 (Sep 22, 2014)

Since a lot of people in this thread are working towards, or have just had the milestone of a sub 20 ao100, I would like to share this. FINALLY!!!!  You were right Marcel!


number of times: 100/100
best time: 15.154
worst time: 33.089

current mo3: 17.478 (σ = 1.85)
best mo3: 16.801 (σ = 0.96)

current avg5: 18.840 (σ = 1.57)
best avg5: 17.161 (σ = 1.38)

current avg12: 19.268 (σ = 2.00)
best avg12: 18.238 (σ = 2.08)

current avg50: 19.817 (σ = 2.48)
best avg50: 19.805 (σ = 1.43)

current avg100: 19.845 (σ = 1.92)
best avg100: 19.845 (σ = 1.92)

session avg: 19.845 (σ = 1.92)
session mean: 20.098

Edit: Nevermind, I did 60 more solves and in the process got a sub 19 ao50 (18.90) got an 18.18 ao12, a 17.16 ao5 and beat my PB ao100 more and now it's down to 19.56


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## sneaklyfox (Sep 22, 2014)

Rocky0701 said:


> Thanks, your cubes solved YTD is amazing! Do you have any goals as to what you want to get to before the end of the year? 36,500 would be a cool milestone.



Nah, not that amazing. If I get to 36,500 that would only be the equivalent of 100 cubes per day which is really not a lot at all though I will probably go beyond that. No goal, just a record.

And congrats on your sub-20 averages. Way to go!


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## MarcelP (Sep 22, 2014)

Rocky0701 said:


> Since a lot of people in this thread are working towards, or have just had the milestone of a sub 20 ao100, I would like to share this. FINALLY!!!!  You were right Marcel!
> 
> current avg100: 19.845 (σ = 1.92)
> best avg100: 19.845 (σ = 1.92)
> ...



Congrats! My session mean was also not sub 20 like yours. But then again, my average was 19.99  Nice progress here in this thread 



sneaklyfox said:


> though I will probably go beyond that. No goal, just a record.



The faster you get the more timed solves you can do per day in your spare time  For me 100 on a mon - Friday is a big number.. 30 - 50 sounds more like real for me. But I catch up in weekends


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## sneaklyfox (Sep 24, 2014)

Hey, just wondering how many people use the different alg for T-perm with a U2 AUF.

So, instead of
R U R' U' R' F R2 U' R' U' R U R' F' U2

I use this with the last four moves executed with LH
R U R' U' R' F R2 U' R' U F' L' U L

Or think of it this way
R U R' U' R' F R2 U' R' U x U' r' U r


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## MarcelP (Sep 24, 2014)

sneaklyfox said:


> Hey, just wondering how many people use the different alg for T-perm with a U2 AUF.
> 
> So, instead of
> R U R' U' R' F R2 U' R' U' R U R' F' U2
> ...



No, not me. I use the standard R U R' U' R' F R2 U' R' U' R U R' F' where last F' is right thumb


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## MarcelP (Sep 24, 2014)

Well, that's a first.. A mean of sub 20, where no sub20 Ao12 in is...


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## Logiqx (Sep 24, 2014)

I try to do 50 solves during lunchtime but I wasn't happy with today's average (22.1s) so I rolled on for another dozen solves...

16.28, 27.56, 22.36, 20.41, 18.04, 23.44, 21.49, 15.67, 16.91, 20.84, 16.63, 21.32

These solves include two PBs - Ao5 18.13 (0.9s improvement) and 19.77 Ao12 (0.6s improvement).

Woohoo... I've finally got a sub-20 Ao12. Isn't it funny how things can turn around during a session?


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## mark49152 (Sep 24, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> No, not me. I use the standard R U R' U' R' F R2 U' R' U' R U R' F' where last F' is right thumb


Same. Generally I only look at the top layer before the PLL, and only think about AUF towards the end of the alg. Which I could do to choose an ending for the T perm I guess, but I don't.


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## MarcelP (Sep 24, 2014)

Logiqx said:


> Woohoo... I've finally got a sub-20 Ao12. Isn't it funny how things can turn around during a session?



Yeah, I often do a Ao100 in the morning an Ao100 in the evening in weekends. The evening Ao100 is always a lot faster  Congrats on your PBs!


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## MarcelP (Sep 24, 2014)

mark49152 said:


> Same. Generally I only look at the top layer before the PLL, and only think about AUF towards the end of the alg. Which I could do to choose an ending for the T perm I guess, but I don't.



I always check AUF after the PLL.. LOL I know... so wrong.... 

I just caught a sub 20 Ao12 on camera with a 12.44 in there.. 

clickertheclick


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## sneaklyfox (Sep 24, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> I always check AUF after the PLL.. LOL I know... so wrong....



You guys should definitely change this! All you need to do is note the colours so while executing PLL you figure out what you'll need to do after it. So a split second of seeing gives you like, 2 seconds of thinking time.

Edit: 12.44 nice! I should film some solves again. I actually have no sub-15 solves on cam!


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## Rocky0701 (Sep 24, 2014)

Haha, guys I just got a PLL skip, and then two OLL skips all in a row. What the heck? The PLL skip one was 7. (11.985) U B U' R' D2 F' U2 F' R2 F' D R2 U L2 U' L2 B2 D2 R2 F2 U' (PB)  and the two OLL skips were 19 and 14. Close to breaking PB ao5, but I got nervous and blew it.


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## MarcelP (Sep 25, 2014)

sneaklyfox said:


> You guys should definitely change this! All you need to do is note the colours so while executing PLL you figure out what you'll need to do after it. So a split second of seeing gives you like, 2 seconds of thinking time.
> 
> Edit: 12.44 nice! I should film some solves again. I actually have no sub-15 solves on cam!



Yeah, I messed up by learning the PLL's without the last move. For example, my Jb perm is

R U R' F' R U R' U' R' F R2 U' R' 

But I should have learned R U R' F' R U R' U' R' F R2 U' R' *U'*

It is such a bad habit to break now. But it is on my todo list which will shave another second of my global average.. And yeah, you should film more solves.


----------



## sneaklyfox (Sep 25, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> Yeah, I messed up by learning the PLL's without the last move. For example, my Jb perm is
> 
> R U R' F' R U R' U' R' F R2 U' R'
> 
> ...



Actually, you don't need to change your alg by adding the U'. You just have to change what you look at to determine the AUF, which is all that U' is. For that J perm, the U' is needed if the bar on the left matches the same colour. You don't need any extra moves if the 1x2 bar facing you matches the same colour already.


----------



## MarcelP (Sep 25, 2014)

sneaklyfox said:


> Actually, you don't need to change your alg by adding the U'. You just have to change what you look at to determine the AUF, which is all that U' is. For that J perm, the U' is needed if the bar on the left matches the same colour. You don't need any extra moves if the 1x2 bar facing you matches the same colour already.



But the problem is that without U' doing the alg the bar will not end up on a face that I will reconize. For example bar is red, but is placed on a blue side. I have no clue now to do a U or U' after doing PLL. If I had learned the alg with U', then I could have known what to do after PLL, simply before starting the PLL by looking where the red side is.


----------



## TDM (Sep 25, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> But the problem is that without U' doing the alg the bar will not end up on a face that I will reconize. For example bar is red, but is placed on a blue side. I have no clue now to do a U or U' after doing PLL. If I had learned the alg with U', then I could have known what to do after PLL, simply before starting the PLL by looking where the red side is.


I remember it by knowing that after the alg, the front 1x2 bar will be in the same place. So if you want to know what the AUF afterwards is, look to see what AUF would solve the front bar.


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## sneaklyfox (Sep 25, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> But the problem is that without U' doing the alg the bar will not end up on a face that I will reconize. For example bar is red, but is placed on a blue side. I have no clue now to do a U or U' after doing PLL. If I had learned the alg with U', then I could have known what to do after PLL, simply before starting the PLL by looking where the red side is.



Ok, let me try to explain again by doing the example you mentioned. So, have a solved cube with the red side on the L face and yellow side on U face. Do the J perm alg. Now do a y' because that's how you need it to be before you perform your alg to solve the case. So, bar is on the left, but we actually *don't care that the red bar is on the blue face*. Now note the 1x2 colour on the F face. It should be orange, on a red side. Orange is opposite red so after your alg you need a U2. I hope this explains it.


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## MarcelP (Sep 25, 2014)

sneaklyfox said:


> Ok, let me try to explain again by doing the example you mentioned. So, have a solved cube with the red side on the L face and yellow side on U face. Do the J perm alg. Now do a y' because that's how you need it to be before you perform your alg to solve the case. So, bar is on the left, but we actually *don't care that the red bar is on the blue face*. Now note the 1x2 colour on the F face. It should be orange, on a red side. Orange is opposite red so after your alg you need a U2. I hope this explains it.



Brilliant!! I get it now. Thanks a s lot.


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## mark49152 (Sep 26, 2014)

Just returned from a long cubing break, and on my 4th session, smashed all PBs, including my first sub-20 ao50!

Ao50: 19.71 - Ao12: 18.80 - Ao5: 17.62

I've only done about 500 timed solves in total since mid-July so I'm surprised and really pleased. Maybe I should take a break more often.


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## sneaklyfox (Sep 26, 2014)

How long was your cubing break?


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## MarcelP (Sep 26, 2014)

mark49152 said:


> Just returned from a long cubing break, and on my 4th session, smashed all PBs, including my first sub-20 ao50!
> 
> Ao50: 19.71 - Ao12: 18.80 - Ao5: 17.62
> 
> I've only done about 500 timed solves in total since mid-July so I'm surprised and really pleased. Maybe I should take a break more often.



Congrats Mark, To compare, my Ao50 today was 19.93  Today you are faster LOL.. Nice PB's man! Now start serious practice again please...


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## mark49152 (Sep 26, 2014)

sneaklyfox said:


> How long was your cubing break?


A couple of months, although it wasn't a total break. I have still picked up a cube here and there, although often not for a week or two. I've logged 200 solves in the last four days, and before that only about 350 scattered in the two months since mid-July. I was doing a few hundred per week before that. My averages for the other sessions this week were in the 21's.


MarcelP said:


> Congrats Mark, To compare, my Ao50 today was 19.93  Today you are faster LOL.. Nice PB's man! Now start serious practice again please...


I am chasing your sub-20 ao100 . Great that we are both making progress.


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## MarcelP (Sep 27, 2014)

mark49152 said:


> I am chasing your sub-20 ao100 . Great that we are both making progress.



Time to update signature?


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## mark49152 (Sep 27, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> Time to update signature?


I guess so, although I think that was an unrepresentatively good run. I was on fire for an hour, but now back to 21-ish. Oh well I guess that's how PBs work


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## Rocky0701 (Sep 27, 2014)

Good job Mark! Long breaks actually really help. I hadn't timed more than like 5 solves at a time since like mid August when school started, and like a week ago started back up again. Now I am pretty much sub 20 after getting a sub 20 ao500 so they help. Also, when you guys first got Aosus, did your times really start jumping down? I have been very due to get one and finally did. I was averaging like sub 1:30 on my modded SS, and this morning my Aosu came. I have only done about 30 solves, but have already taken 10 seconds off of my PB ao12 and 4 seconds off of my PB single. I am in love with it so far.


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## sneaklyfox (Sep 27, 2014)

mark49152 said:


> I guess so, although I think that was an unrepresentatively good run. I was on fire for an hour, but now back to 21-ish. Oh well I guess that's how PBs work



Exactly. I just got a good run too which got me a new PB Ao5! 13.22, 10.76, 11.07, (9.30), (13.78) = *11.68*! Now if only I could beat my PB Ao12...


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## Rocky0701 (Sep 27, 2014)

sneaklyfox said:


> Exactly. I just got a good run too which got me a new PB Ao5! 13.22, 10.76, 11.07, (9.30), (13.78) = *11.68*! Now if only I could beat my PB Ao12...


Nice! What did your first sub 10 single feel like?


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## mark49152 (Sep 27, 2014)

sneaklyfox said:


> Exactly. I just got a good run too which got me a new PB Ao5! 13.22, 10.76, 11.07, (9.30), (13.78) = *11.68*! Now if only I could beat my PB Ao12...


Congrats - you are getting really fast now!



Rocky0701 said:


> Also, when you guys first got Aosus, did your times really start jumping down?


Yeah it is just so much nicer to turn. I just never did enough solves on my Weisu to break it in past the sluggish phase, and my SS was always too catchy (too lazy to mod it).

Been doing some Jarcs training tonight. Have a go at solving these crosses and see if you can find a solution of the length specified. Scramble with cross colour on bottom.

D2 U L2 B' D L2 F' R D R' F' B U F' R F R L2 F2 L' U2 L2 F' D' B2 (6f*)

D2 R' D2 F R' B2 F' R' U B2 D' U' F R B2 U2 D L R' F' L' B' F2 L' R' (5f*)

L F' D2 B' D' R F2 U2 L2 R2 U2 F D' L' D' U F D F2 D2 U2 F B L2 D2 (6f*)

U2 R B' F2 L2 U' R2 D' R' L B D' F D U' R' B' R2 D2 L' D' R2 D' U' B (5f*)

R2 D2 L' D2 F2 B2 D2 F' R' F2 B' R F2 U2 F D F2 B2 L2 R' U' L F' R2 L (6f*)

B' U L' B' R D' B F U' L2 R' U' F' R2 D2 L2 U' F U D' B F L2 U R (6f*)


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## moralsh (Sep 27, 2014)

Good luck tomorrow, Marcel, please beat me!


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## Rocky0701 (Sep 28, 2014)

mark49152 said:


> Congrats - you are getting really fast now!
> 
> 
> Yeah it is just so much nicer to turn. I just never did enough solves on my Weisu to break it in past the sluggish phase, and my SS was always too catchy (too lazy to mod it).
> ...


1. 4
2. Nope
3. 6
4. 5
5. 6
6. Nope
Are you dual neutral? If not, it helps definitely, and it's really easy to learn.


----------



## mark49152 (Sep 28, 2014)

Rocky0701 said:


> 1. 4
> 2. Nope
> 3. 6
> 4. 5
> ...


I'm not dual neutral, but anyway the point of the exercise is to find the optimal solution for whatever colour you had on the bottom when scrambling. Choosing a different colour is evading the challenge . 

I did maybe 20-30 "cross FMCs" today, and in most cases my first solution was either optimal or one move over, and where I was one move over, I found the optimal solution in one or two more tries, quite easily. These six above were the ones that took me longer to find. Just curious what you guys make of them!


----------



## Rocky0701 (Sep 28, 2014)

mark49152 said:


> I'm not dual neutral, but anyway the point of the exercise is to find the optimal solution for whatever colour you had on the bottom when scrambling. Choosing a different colour is evading the challenge .
> 
> I did maybe 20-30 "cross FMCs" today, and in most cases my first solution was either optimal or one move over, and where I was one move over, I found the optimal solution in one or two more tries, quite easily. These six above were the ones that took me longer to find. Just curious what you guys make of them!


Oh, ok. Yeah I was doing them on yellow as well. That's why I was wondering because other than 2. and 6. they were pretty easy. I will try them again just on white.


----------



## sneaklyfox (Sep 28, 2014)

Rocky0701 said:


> Nice! What did your first sub 10 single feel like?



Very very awesome. Big fist pump. 



mark49152 said:


> Been doing some Jarcs training tonight. Have a go at solving these crosses and see if you can find a solution of the length specified. Scramble with cross colour on bottom.
> 
> 1. D2 U L2 B' D L2 F' R D R' F' B U F' R F R L2 F2 L' U2 L2 F' D' B2 (6f*)
> 
> ...



1. yup
2. nope, 6
3. nope, 7
4. yup
5. yup
6. yup

Do you have solutions for these?


----------



## MarcelP (Sep 28, 2014)

Rocky0701 said:


> Also, when you guys first got Aosus, did your times really start jumping down?



No my times went up. My modded SS was way faster. But after a while I got used to the Aosu and now I can't stand the SS anymore 



sneaklyfox said:


> Exactly. I just got a good run too which got me a new PB Ao5! 13.22, 10.76, 11.07, (9.30), (13.78) = *11.68*! Now if only I could beat my PB Ao12...



Woahhh,, sub 10 in there also.. Awesome.



moralsh said:


> Good luck tomorrow, Marcel, please beat me!



Thanks! I will do my best. I feel perfectly rested, not nervous.. So let's see what will happen


----------



## mark49152 (Sep 28, 2014)

You have a comp today Marcel? Good luck! 

Edit: I see you on cubecomps - sub-25 average and 17 single, and only the first round down! Way to go Marcel! 

Edit2: and 22.36 average in second round - congrats!


----------



## Rocky0701 (Sep 28, 2014)

Rocky0701 said:


> 1. 4
> 2. Nope
> 3. 6
> 4. 5
> ...


Here are my news ones, I allowed myself 2 tries per cross.
1. Yup
2. Yup 
3. Nope 7
4. Yup X cross haha
5. Yup, that one was hard thoough
6. No, 7


----------



## MarcelP (Sep 28, 2014)

mark49152 said:


> You have a comp today Marcel? Good luck!
> 
> Edit: I see you on cubecomps - sub-25 average and 17 single, and only the first round down! Way to go Marcel!
> 
> Edit2: and 22.36 average in second round - congrats!



Thanks. I am on my phone but had to share

http://m.cubecomps.com/competitions/639/competitors/24

broke all my PBs..


----------



## mark49152 (Sep 28, 2014)

Awesome. Official sub-20 average next time


----------



## MarcelP (Sep 28, 2014)

Yeah, I am cool...
[video=youtube_share;c_-Lc20RH08]http://youtu.be/c_-Lc20RH08[/video]


----------



## mark49152 (Sep 28, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> Yeah, I am cool...
> http://youtu.be/c_-Lc20RH08


Super cool


----------



## MarcelP (Sep 28, 2014)

mark49152 said:


> Super cool



Let me sum that up:

Now I have a faster 4X4X4 single than Schmidt.
Now I have a faster 3X3x3 single than Schmidt.
Now I have a faster Pyraminx single than Schmidt.
Now I have a faster 3X3x3 OH single than Schmidt.

LOL

Truth is Søren is probably faster than me in everything.


----------



## Schmidt (Sep 28, 2014)

Everybody knows it's average that counts 
but congrats anyway!
i smiled a little about your pyraminx times


----------



## Rocky0701 (Sep 28, 2014)

Sweet Marcel! I can't wait for my first comp


----------



## moralsh (Sep 28, 2014)

You finally beat me at 3x3 even though you've been faster than me (and still are) always, congrats and wow, nice single!

I've taken 4x4 single and 2x2 averages with me to try to make it even [emoji13] 

What a weekend


----------



## sneaklyfox (Sep 28, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> Yeah, I am cool...
> http://youtu.be/c_-Lc20RH08



Sweet!!


----------



## MarcelP (Sep 28, 2014)

Schmidt said:


> i smiled a little about your pyraminx times



LOL, yeah a 58 and then a 8.. The 58 was a good solve untill I came to my last layer case. I forgot how to solve that one, so I scrambled the Pyraminx and started over  I never practice Pyra so the 8 single was very nice 



moralsh said:


> You finally beat me at 3x3 even though you've been faster than me (and still are) always, congrats and wow, nice single!
> 
> I've taken 4x4 single and 2x2 averages with me to try to make it even [emoji13]
> 
> What a weekend



Nice time Raoul,
http://m.cubecomps.com/competitions/608/competitors/29
I envy your 3BLD results..


sneaklyfox said:


> Sweet!!



Thanks


----------



## MarcelP (Sep 29, 2014)

For the ones who care: 



Brest said:


> *Marcel Poots* - 17.25 3x3 single - Dutch Nationals 2014
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Logiqx (Sep 29, 2014)

Congratulations on your new official PBs.

Have your nerves become less of a problem after attending a few competitions?

You need a new target now... official sub-20 average?


----------



## MarcelP (Sep 29, 2014)

Logiqx said:


> Congratulations on your new official PBs.
> 
> Have your nerves become less of a problem after attending a few competitions?
> 
> You need a new target now... official sub-20 average?



Thanks! No, nerves are still a problem.. My first solve was 2X2. It was a 14 second solve on a very very easy scramble. It is just that I do not have my fingers under controle. But after 2X2 and 4X4 and Pyraminx I am less nervous when Rubiks cube started. With 4X4 I had a pop on the first solve.  Still managed to repair and stay within cutoff. I had 5 double parities..LOL. Then at 3X3 the first solve was a nice scramble. Easy cross.. but my hands did not cooperate, no look ahead because of stress resulting in a 26 seconds solve.. Then the next 3 solves I have no look ahead.. And then the last solve (the 17.25 solve) Bam.. steady fingers and great look-head.. So that when my whole day was allright. After that I had no nerves any more and second round I solved slow with great look ahead. Just trying to get a great average. And it worked.

My new target is getting great at Skewb and 5X5. I have the AoChouang. I did a few solves on them, all around 9-10 minutes. At the competition Erik Akkersdijk and Mats did a few solves on my cube ranging between 1.05 and 1.30.. that was cool  I need to be able to do that too.. LOL


----------



## Logiqx (Sep 29, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> My new target is getting great at Skewb and 5X5. I have the AoChouang. I did a few solves on them, all around 9-10 minutes. At the competition Erik Akkersdijk and Mats did a few solves on my cube ranging between 1.05 and 1.30.. that was cool  I need to be able to do that too.. LOL



That's pretty cool. What do they think of your new MoYu compared to the ShengShou?

I feel like I ought to put some time into 5x5x5. The WeiSu and AoSu breathed life into my 4x4x4 solves so I'll get an AoChuang and see if I get more enjoyment from 5x5x5 with the MoYu magic.


----------



## MarcelP (Sep 29, 2014)

Logiqx said:


> That's pretty cool. What do they think of your new MoYu compared to the ShengShou?
> 
> I feel like I ought to put some time into 5x5x5. The WeiSu and AoSu breathed life into my 4x4x4 solves so I'll get an AoChuang and see if I get more enjoyment from 5x5x5 with the MoYu magic.



Yeah, the Aochuang has the typical MoYu feeling. Smooth, no locks etc. I do recommend it.


----------



## lorki3 (Sep 29, 2014)

Nice solve indeed!


----------



## sneaklyfox (Sep 29, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> For the ones who care:



Nice... OLL skip. I wish I will get one at my next comp...


----------



## MarcelP (Sep 29, 2014)

sneaklyfox said:


> Nice... OLL skip. I wish I will get one at my next comp...


No, it was a very obvious Winter Variantion case, so a forced skip LOL (..NOT)


----------



## Schmidt (Sep 29, 2014)

Nice.... a 5 sec T-Perm 
you should have listened to Sneaklyfox when she tried to teach you that U2 T perm


----------



## MarcelP (Sep 29, 2014)

Schmidt said:


> Nice.... a 5 sec T-Perm
> you should have listened to Sneaklyfox when she tried to teach you that U2 T perm



Yeah, when I saw the reconstruction I went back to the video to check it (again and again). I can do T-perm in about 2 - 2.5 secs. I think the setting up of U2 and AUF with U2 made it a lot slower LOL, but also, I remember this stage in the competition. I knew I was doing great on this solve, I did the PLL not at top speed because I did not want to mess up


----------



## moralsh (Sep 29, 2014)

Wow Marcel, sweet solve, Blind is not hard at all, you just need to practice a bit everyday and if all the cube is a lot to memo at the begining you can do a couple of weeks of doing just edges or just corners. Sub 3 is definitely as easy as sub 30 on 3x3x3.


At comps I find it hard to perform OLLs and PLLs fast, I can do F2L ok, but I lock a lot at long algs, nerves...


----------



## MarcelP (Sep 29, 2014)

moralsh said:


> Wow Marcel, sweet solve, Blind is not hard at all, you just need to practice a bit everyday and if all the cube is a lot to memo at the begining you can do a couple of weeks of doing just edges or just corners. Sub 3 is definitely as easy as sub 30 on 3x3x3.
> 
> 
> At comps I find it hard to perform OLLs and PLLs fast, I can do F2L ok, but I lock a lot at long algs, nerves...



Well, I registered for a 3BLD this year. I guess I have to start doing some serious practice now. I allready sacrificed some cube like this:

I hope to get the memo down in less time and with less mistakes...


----------



## moralsh (Sep 29, 2014)

hah! same orientation and letter scheme as me  if you ask me anything I can answer you in terms of letters.

Don't hesitate to ask if you have questions, I like answering BLD questions


----------



## MarcelP (Sep 29, 2014)

Thanks, I will.


----------



## sneaklyfox (Sep 29, 2014)

moralsh said:


> Wow Marcel, sweet solve, Blind is not hard at all, you just need to practice a bit everyday and if all the cube is a lot to memo at the begining you can do a couple of weeks of doing just edges or just corners. Sub 3 is definitely as easy as sub 30 on 3x3x3.
> 
> 
> At comps I find it hard to perform OLLs and PLLs fast, I can do F2L ok, but I lock a lot at long algs, nerves...



moralsh, what method(s) are you using for 3BLD?


----------



## mark49152 (Sep 29, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> Yeah, the Aochuang has the typical MoYu feeling. Smooth, no locks etc. I do recommend it.


I have been thinking the same - get into 5x5 with the AoChuang . Unfortunately, mine is in limbo somewhere, taking much longer than usual to arrive from China.

Been doing 4x4 the last couple of days and got my first sub-1:50 ao12 today - 1:49.57. I'm hoping a few days of 4x4 will improve my 3x3 times


----------



## sk8erman41 (Sep 30, 2014)

Nice job on the comp results Marcel! Everyone seems to be improving quite well in this thread. I decided that I need to have more detailed focus on practice (said this 100x but its true this time lol) got this one today though....

Just got this one...
13.46 B2 U2 B2 R2 F2 D' B2 U' L2 D2 U2 B L2 B2 F2 L' D L2 U' R' L2

x2
R U B' L F' D'
U2 R U' R' U' L' U' L'
R U' R'
y R U' R'
y R U R' U2 R U R'
U F R U R' U' F'
U R U R' F' R U R' U' R' F R2 U' R'

"full step" but DAT F2L! LOL


----------



## Rocky0701 (Sep 30, 2014)

mark49152 said:


> I have been thinking the same - get into 5x5 with the AoChuang . Unfortunately, mine is in limbo somewhere, taking much longer than usual to arrive from China.
> 
> Been doing 4x4 the last couple of days and got my first sub-1:50 ao12 today - 1:49.57. I'm hoping a few days of 4x4 will improve my 3x3 times


You should do my 4x4 race thread


----------



## MarcelP (Sep 30, 2014)

mark49152 said:


> Been doing 4x4 the last couple of days and got my first sub-1:50 ao12 today - 1:49.57. I'm hoping a few days of 4x4 will improve my 3x3 times


Nice progress! I can not seem to improve on 4X4. I do not know why. I quess it is just not enough practice..



sk8erman41 said:


> Just got this one...
> 13.46 B2 U2 B2 R2 F2 D' B2 U' L2 D2 U2 B L2 B2 F2 L' D L2 U' R' L2
> 
> x2
> ...


Nice job! Keep it up 


Rocky0701 said:


> You should do my 4x4 race thread



I should too


----------



## moralsh (Sep 30, 2014)

sneaklyfox said:


> moralsh, what method(s) are you using for 3BLD?



I do M2/OP with some easy corner comms when they appear, for memo I do letter pairs for corners and audio edges and I execute edges first. I really like the event, gotta practice more


----------



## mark49152 (Sep 30, 2014)

Rocky0701 said:


> You should do my 4x4 race thread





MarcelP said:


> Nice progress! I can not seem to improve on 4X4. I do not know why. I quess it is just not enough practice..



Well, I really enjoy 4x4, perhaps even more than 3x3 as it's less simple but still not big enough to be tedious like 5x5. But I have logged only 80 timed 4x4 solves this year, 40 of them this week. I just don't care as much about my times on 4x4.

My idea right now is based on two observations. You know how as you get better at things, they feel easier? These days when I don't even try to solve 3x3 fast, I'll take 26-27 seconds or so. A few months ago, that felt like lightning. In a few months time, solving in 20 seconds will just feel slow and easy.

Secondly, whenever I solve 4x4 or bigger for a while, then go back to 3x3, it feels simpler and easier. Solving bigger cubes is a great way of pushing limits. It requires better control and accuracy and there's more to watch and think about. Doing 3x3 practice doesn't seem to push limits so much, as I'm just doing the same stuff over and over. 

So my plan is to focus on 4x4 training for a couple of weeks, interspersed with a few untimed 3x3 solves. When those untimed solves start to feel like they are trivially simple and flowing effortlessly, I'll try timing 3x3 again and see if it made a difference


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## Logiqx (Sep 30, 2014)

Around May this year I started timing myself at 4x4x4 and I typically did one or two sessions per week. I only did twelve solves during each session and I only did timed solves due to limited time for practice. After 12 sessions my Ao12 went from 2:59 to 2:01 then I got out of the habit and haven't done 4x4x4 for 6 weeks.

The talk about 5x5x5 and 4x4x4 has made me try another Ao12 this morning and I was shocked at my times! My average was 02:20 due to very long pauses but my recognition was slowly returning and the last 2 solves were both under two minutes.

I need to start doing 4x4x4 again to get my average under two minutes and then push towards 4 times my 3x3x3 times. This seems to be what the top 4x4x4 solvers can achieve.

Who's up for the 4x4x4 race thread? Marcel? Mark?


----------



## Logiqx (Sep 30, 2014)

I did some analysis relating to relative times for a variety of events earlier this year. Does it help you set personal goals or help you determine what times you should be achieving?

http://www.speedsolving.com/forum/showthread.php?47405-Relative-Solve-Times-for-2x2x2-7x7x7


----------



## mark49152 (Sep 30, 2014)

Logiqx said:


> I did some analysis relating to relative times for a variety of events earlier this year. Does it help you set personal goals or help you determine what times you should be achieving?
> 
> http://www.speedsolving.com/forum/showthread.php?47405-Relative-Solve-Times-for-2x2x2-7x7x7


Great thread, I replied on it.



Logiqx said:


> I need to start doing 4x4x4 again to get my average under two minutes and then push towards 4 times my 3x3x3 times. This seems to be what the top 4x4x4 solvers can achieve.
> 
> Who's up for the 4x4x4 race thread? Marcel? Mark?


I'm terrible at keeping up with race threads these days but I will if I remember. 

I think 4x is the factor for those who focus on bigger cubes at the expense of 3x3. For a "typical" ratio for those who care equally about 3x3 and 4x4, I'd aim for middle of the graph, or 5x. My target is therefore sub-1:40.


----------



## Logiqx (Sep 30, 2014)

mark49152 said:


> Great thread, I replied on it.



Glad you liked it.



mark49152 said:


> I think 4x is the factor for those who focus on bigger cubes at the expense of 3x3. For a "typical" ratio for those who care equally about 3x3 and 4x4, I'd aim for middle of the graph, or 5x. My target is therefore sub-1:40.



I think 5x is my immediate target as well. Sounds like you are well on your way!


----------



## mark49152 (Sep 30, 2014)

Logiqx said:


> I think 5x is my immediate target as well. Sounds like you are well on your way!


Yeah I am quite pleased - I had originally taken 4x as a target based on WR ratios, and thought I was much worse at 4x4 relative to my 3x3 level than is actually the case.


----------



## Logiqx (Sep 30, 2014)

Once "5x" is achieved (seems realistic with adequate practice), I think "4.5x" would feel within reach - ie. sub-20 + sub-1:30.

Sub-1:30 sounds decent and happens to be the cut-off time for UK competitions.

However, 3x3x3 times improving with time mean the 4x4x4 target is constantly moving as well.


----------



## mark49152 (Sep 30, 2014)

Logiqx said:


> However, 3x3x3 times improving with time mean the 4x4x4 target is constantly moving as well.


Yes exactly. After 1:40, my target will be 1:30 and sub-18


----------



## MarcelP (Sep 30, 2014)

moralsh said:


> I do M2/OP with some easy corner comms when they appear, for memo I do letter pairs for corners and audio edges and I execute edges first. I really like the event, gotta practice more


Can you explain 'audio'?


sneaklyfox said:


> moralsh, what method(s) are you using for 3BLD?



Melody, Do you know this trick: when two edges are flipped set them up to UF and UB and do (M' U')4 (U' M')4


----------



## Logiqx (Sep 30, 2014)

Noah Arthurs describes audio for edges in one of his videos ~3:30

http://youtu.be/JB0Zs1pijRw


----------



## kcl (Sep 30, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> Can you explain 'audio'?
> 
> 
> Melody, Do you know this trick: when two edges are flipped set them up to UF and UB and do (M' U')4 (U' M')4



I believe audio is just stringing your letter pairs into one or two nonsensical words. For example FE CL RT LG 
Might be memorized as Feckel Ertelg.
It's just sounding out the random letters.


----------



## moralsh (Sep 30, 2014)

Audio is remembering the sound of it, Noah Arthurs likes to repeat a bunch of syllables and I just pronounce the letters in groups of four. Is a fast way of remembering something for a very short time.

I just say in my head Gfcv rtud bql like three Times and execute it. I usually can't remember the audio once I've finished, but serves its purpose


----------



## sneaklyfox (Oct 1, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> Melody, Do you know this trick: when two edges are flipped set them up to UF and UB and do (M' U')4 (U' M')4



Yes. But it's hard to get myself motivated to practice BLD. If I really practiced it, I would probably be decent at it. Is there a BLD race thread? Sorry, just wondering aloud. The fastest I've gotten is a sub-4 single but that's not with much practice.

I was using M2/OP but I would need to refresh a few of the M-slice algs. I think I stopped practicing because I wasn't decided on my memo system. I was trying to figure out an even more effective way of memorizing if possible though I like audio and some letter pairs. Specifically I wanted to be able to use notes in a scale like in music. Hadn't figured out how though.


----------



## h2f (Oct 1, 2014)

I like to read this thread to keep motivation to practice, because I'm around sub-25 for a half of year. It looked like I stucked. That's why I keep practice 3bld and started 4bld. I do just few 3bld per day and after 3 months with OP/M2 it's quite easy for me to make 3bld solve. My best single is 2:55.



MarcelP said:


> Melody, Do you know this trick: when two edges are flipped set them up to UF and UB and do (M' U')4 (U' M')4



There are few ways to flip edges. I think your alg works ok but to flip UF and UB I use alg Maskow showed in his tutorial: U2 (M' U M' U M') U2 (M U M U M). One can modify it to flip UL and UR: *U* (M' U M' U M') U2 (M U M U M) *U*. The second alg flips UF and UR: R' (U2 R2 U R' U' R' U2 r U R U' r'). Of course one can modify the third alg to flip UF and RF: (U2 R2 U R' U' R' U2 r U R U' r') *R'*.

Using these two algs and its modifications makes flips easier, because setups are shorter. And of course you can rotate cube to avoid setups at all.


----------



## Logiqx (Oct 1, 2014)

mark49152 said:


> I'm terrible at keeping up with race threads these days but I will if I remember.



Ok... I've made a start. The 4x4x4 race solves will be my Wednesday practice session and I'll try to fit in a second 4x4x4 session each week.

http://www.speedsolving.com/forum/s...5-1-30-2-00)&p=1021638&viewfull=1#post1021638

I hope you guys will join me in the quest for 4x4x4 improvement!


----------



## moralsh (Oct 1, 2014)

sneaklyfox said:


> Specifically I wanted to be able to use notes in a scale like in music. Hadn't figured out how though.



When I read this I first thought: 7 notes, seven corners in a cube if you exclude the buffer, then we have sharps and flats for orientation, cool, then I remembered there is no E sharp or D flat, oops
then I thought about using two octaves, that will make 24 notes which is enough to play with both for corners and edges.

Another options is using chords, Seven notes, seven targets, Major if oriented Minor for one orientation and any other for the other, It could work somehow.


----------



## mark49152 (Oct 1, 2014)

Logiqx said:


> I hope you guys will join me in the quest for 4x4x4 improvement!


Yeah 4x4 is fun so I will try.

My experiment to see if it improves my 3x3 times got off to a bad start though. My 3x3 average last night was around 21.5 and that's down from 23 or so for the first 20. After a couple of days on 4x4 it felt like I had to turn flat out on 3x3, and also my lookahead had got worse. I think on 4x4 I just can't turn the puzzle as fast and therefore have more time to lookahead, and when I go back to 3x3, neither are fast enough.


----------



## sneaklyfox (Oct 1, 2014)

Logiqx said:


> Ok... I've made a start. The 4x4x4 race solves will be my Wednesday practice session and I'll try to fit in a second 4x4x4 session each week.
> 
> http://www.speedsolving.com/forum/s...5-1-30-2-00)&p=1021638&viewfull=1#post1021638
> 
> I hope you guys will join me in the quest for 4x4x4 improvement!



Oh, great! Didn't ever even know this new 4x4 race thread has been up. Will definitely join.



moralsh said:


> When I read this I first thought: 7 notes, seven corners in a cube if you exclude the buffer, then we have sharps and flats for orientation, cool, then I remembered there is no E sharp or D flat, oops
> then I thought about using two octaves, that will make 24 notes which is enough to play with both for corners and edges.
> 
> Another options is using chords, Seven notes, seven targets, Major if oriented Minor for one orientation and any other for the other, It could work somehow.



Too many octaves is harder to sing and also may have very big leaps. Besides knowing which corner, you have to know which side. Since each corner only has three possible sides, U/D, R/L, F/B you could have three different added detail (don't know what detail) to the note the know the side. I'm not sure if rhythm (length of note) or something like that could work. I also didn't want to use sharps and flats (besides that it doesn't really work for some notes) because then you might get some weird intervals.


----------



## Rocky0701 (Oct 1, 2014)

Logiqx said:


> Ok... I've made a start. The 4x4x4 race solves will be my Wednesday practice session and I'll try to fit in a second 4x4x4 session each week.
> 
> http://www.speedsolving.com/forum/s...5-1-30-2-00)&p=1021638&viewfull=1#post1021638
> 
> I hope you guys will join me in the quest for 4x4x4 improvement!





mark49152 said:


> Yeah 4x4 is fun so I will try.
> 
> My experiment to see if it improves my 3x3 times got off to a bad start though. My 3x3 average last night was around 21.5 and that's down from 23 or so for the first 20. After a couple of days on 4x4 it felt like I had to turn flat out on 3x3, and also my lookahead had got worse. I think on 4x4 I just can't turn the puzzle as fast and therefore have more time to lookahead, and when I go back to 3x3, neither are fast enough.





sneaklyfox said:


> Oh, great! Didn't ever even know this new 4x4 race thread has been up. Will definitely join.
> 
> 
> 
> Too many octaves is harder to sing and also may have very big leaps. Besides knowing which corner, you have to know which side. Since each corner only has three possible sides, U/D, R/L, F/B you could have three different added detail (don't know what detail) to the note the know the side. I'm not sure if rhythm (length of note) or something like that could work. I also didn't want to use sharps and flats (besides that it doesn't really work for some notes) because then you might get some weird intervals.


Awesome! The thread was actually getting dead a couple of rounds ago, so I am glad that you guys want to join in. I am working on getting sub 1:15 right now, and I really want a sub 1:00 (PB is 1:01.xx)


----------



## Logiqx (Oct 1, 2014)

mark49152 said:


> My experiment to see if it improves my 3x3 times got off to a bad start though. My 3x3 average last night was around 21.5 and that's down from 23 or so for the first 20. After a couple of days on 4x4 it felt like I had to turn flat out on 3x3, and also my lookahead had got worse. I think on 4x4 I just can't turn the puzzle as fast and therefore have more time to lookahead, and when I go back to 3x3, neither are fast enough.



Looking on the bright side your 4x4x4 / 3x3x3 ratio is better now. 

Maybe you were just a little rusty and started rushing / turning too fast rather than finding your tempo and solving smoothly?

Another thing to remember... it's not long ago that you'd have been pleased with a 21.50 average. I'm sure you'll be close to 20 again in no time!


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## Logiqx (Oct 1, 2014)

Rocky0701 said:


> Awesome! The thread was actually getting dead a couple of rounds ago, so I am glad that you guys want to join in. I am working on getting sub 1:15 right now, and I really want a sub 1:00 (PB is 1:01.xx)



Hopefully Marcel will join in as well.

I figured I'd get the ball rolling but I was surprised to get PBs after yesterdays shameful performance.

Ao12 from 02:20 down to 01:58 in 24 hours.


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## mark49152 (Oct 1, 2014)

Logiqx said:


> Looking on the bright side your 4x4x4 / 3x3x3 ratio is better now.
> 
> Maybe you were just a little rusty and started rushing / turning too fast rather than finding your tempo and solving smoothly?
> 
> Another thing to remember... it's not long ago that you'd have been pleased with a 21.50 average. I'm sure you'll be close to 20 again in no time!


Yes I'm not complaining about any of it, just theorizing then making observations about how 4x4 practice affects my 3x3 times.

Actually a few months ago I did some sessions of F2L practice on 4x4, with the thought that being compelled by the puzzle to turn slower might help train lookahead. My F2L is mostly smooth and pauseless on 4x4. At the time I was averaging about 10 on 3x3 but my average on 4x4 never improved beyond about 15 despite almost no pauses. In other words, my tps is too slow even for effective lookahead training .

Conclusion: I need to sort out tensions and lube and drill tps on 4x4.


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## Rocky0701 (Oct 1, 2014)

Logiqx said:


> Hopefully Marcel will join in as well.
> 
> I figured I'd get the ball rolling but I was surprised to get PBs after yesterdays shameful performance.
> 
> Ao12 from 02:20 down to 01:58 in 24 hours.


Nice! That's why I made the thread 



mark49152 said:


> Yes I'm not complaining about any of it, just theorizing then making observations about how 4x4 practice affects my 3x3 times.
> 
> Actually a few months ago I did some sessions of F2L practice on 4x4, with the thought that being compelled by the puzzle to turn slower might help train lookahead. My F2L is mostly smooth and pauseless on 4x4. At the time I was averaging about 10 on 3x3 but my average on 4x4 never improved beyond about 15 despite almost no pauses. In other words, my tps is too slow even for effective lookahead training .
> 
> Conclusion: I need to sort out tensions and lube and drill tps on 4x4.


I just saw that your most recent ao100 was 20.98. I thought that you were still in the 21's. Good progress.


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## mark49152 (Oct 1, 2014)

Rocky0701 said:


> I just saw that your most recent ao100 was 20.98. I thought that you were still in the 21's. Good progress.


Yep, that was a hard-won 0.02


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## Rocky0701 (Oct 2, 2014)

mark49152 said:


> Yep, that was a hard-won 0.02


I have always wanted to do a full average of 1000 over the span of a couple of weeks but I am so unpatient. I got to like 560 solves a couple of weeks ago and it was 19.99 at the 500 solve mark but then the next 60 solves had a ton of fail solves that brought the average down a ton so I rage quitted haha.


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## MarcelP (Oct 2, 2014)

Logiqx said:


> Hopefully Marcel will join in as well.



yeah, I will. I just had a 1.48 average in this weeks forum competition. I did not practice 4X4 at all, but did many 5X5 solves..  Dropped 5X5 from 9 to 6 minutes.

I had not touched my Rubiks cube since competition. Just did an Ao50:


Spoiler



Generated By csTimer on 2014-10-2
solves/total: 50/50

single
best: 16.15
worst: 26.14

mean of 3
current: 23.46 (σ = 2.46)
best: 17.63 (σ = 1.29)

avg of 5
current: 21.74 (σ = 1.06)
best: 18.24 (σ = 0.93)

avg of 12
current: 19.92 (σ = 1.65)
best: 18.80 (σ = 1.26)

avg of 50
current: 20.28 (σ = 1.76)
best: 20.28 (σ = 1.76)

Average: 20.28 (σ = 1.76)
Mean: 20.33



time	ao5	ao12
1	19.41	-	-
2	20.95	-	-
3	19.50	-	-
4	19.44	-	-
5	23.00	19.96	-
6	23.22	21.15	-
7	20.73	21.07	-
8	23.42	22.32	-
9	18.85	22.32	-
10	18.45	20.93	-
11	18.30	19.34	-
12	16.15	18.53	20.18
13	20.30	18.53	20.27
14	20.03	18.92	20.18
15	21.82	19.54	20.41
16	23.98	20.72	20.81
17	18.91	20.72	20.40
18	23.15	21.67	20.39
19	19.40	21.46	20.26
20	21.62	21.39	20.08
21	21.80	20.94	20.38
22	19.70	21.04	20.50
23	17.86	20.24	20.46
24	19.68	20.33	20.64
25	20.21	19.86	20.63
26	18.43	19.27	20.47
27	19.76	19.29	20.27
28	21.88	19.88	20.14
29	17.06	19.47	20.04
30	21.42	19.87	19.99
31	19.78	20.32	20.03
32	24.10	21.03	20.05
33	21.47	20.89	20.02
34	22.55	21.81	20.30
35	24.12	22.71	20.93
36	16.80	22.71	20.67
37	19.45	21.16	20.59
38	17.67	19.89	20.51
39	17.72	18.28	20.31
40	19.31	18.24	20.05
41	19.91	18.83	20.34
42	16.89	18.24	19.89
43	20.59	18.98	19.97
44	18.73	19.32	19.43
45	20.11	19.58	19.29
46	17.63	18.83	18.80
47	20.97	19.81	18.80
48	26.14	19.94	19.21
49	22.95	21.34	19.56
50	21.30	21.74	19.92
solve: 50/50
mean: 20.33


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## Logiqx (Oct 2, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> yeah, I will. I just had a 1.48 average in this weeks forum competition.



Didn't you say you were struggling to get sub-2 around a week ago?



MarcelP said:


> Dropped 5X5 from 9 to 6 minutes.



Nice. I haven't timed myself at 5x5x5 yet but I know it would be very slow!


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## MarcelP (Oct 2, 2014)

Logiqx said:


> Didn't you say you were struggling to get sub-2 around a week ago?



Yeah, still I am. There was also a 1.27 in there. I think it was just a lucky average. Most averages are around 2:00


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## Schmidt (Oct 2, 2014)

Lucky for you! I had a 2:05.xx 2-3-4 relay this week, so I was hoping you didn't do so well


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## mark49152 (Oct 2, 2014)

My AoChuang arrived. Wow. I think I may get into 5x5 at last...


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## Logiqx (Oct 2, 2014)

mark49152 said:


> My AoChuang arrived. Wow. I think I may get into 5x5 at last...



I'm hoping ukcubestore gets the AoChuang soon. I'm keen to get my hands on one!


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## MarcelP (Oct 3, 2014)

Schmidt said:


> I had a 2:05.xx 2-3-4 relay this week



Nice! :tu

Can you take a look at this picture and tell me if this is true?


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## Schmidt (Oct 3, 2014)

All true, except we work 37 hours.


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## MarcelP (Oct 3, 2014)

That is a pretty sweet country to live in. What is pension age? It is 67 in Holland.


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## Rocky0701 (Oct 4, 2014)

1:07.955, 1:10.957, 1:03.464, 1:03.439, 1:07.655, 1:07.697, 1:13.859, 59.945, 1:18.076, 1:14.156, (59.218), (1:18.834) 
Hey guys, check out this PB single, ao5, and ao12  59.218, 1:06.26, and 1:08.72, I've done 37 4x4 solves tonight and so far am averaging 1:13. Hopefully this weekend I can make it into a sub 1:15 ao100


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## sneaklyfox (Oct 4, 2014)

Wow, good for you! I suck at 4x4. I mean, compare our 3x3 times. In the 4x4 race thread, I got a sub-1:15 Ao12. So tonight I told myself, "Ok, I will go to bed after just one sub-1:15 solve." I shouldn't have said that. Then followed 24 sup-1:15 solves. Majorly annoying not being able to get a single good time. On the only time it was going to be sub-1:15 I messed up on the PLL and DNF'ed. Now finally I got a 1:07.26 so I'm going to bed now.


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## MarcelP (Oct 4, 2014)

@Rocky, nice.. Good progress 

@SneaklyFox, when I cube (3X3) I try not to stop before I have a sub20 average. This way of practice brings a lot of focus in your training.


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## Rocky0701 (Oct 4, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> @Rocky, Good progress
> 
> @SneaklyFox, when I cube (3X3) I try not to stop before I have a sub20 average. This way of practice brings a lot of focus in your training.


Thanks guys! Getting better at 4x4 has been my goal since I have reached sub 20, and my Aosu definitely helps. Heres something fun and motivating that you guys should do if you haven't already. If you ever have posted in the accomplishment thread, go to it and hit the search thread function, then hit advanced search. Type in your own username and then it will come up with every post that you have ever put into the accomplishment thread. It is motivating to see how far you have come, and fun to kind've laugh at how slow you were. I guess for you, since you pretty much always post here, could do the same to this thread.


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## Soren333 (Oct 4, 2014)

Whats up Marcel


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## kcl (Oct 5, 2014)

*Hi, Marcel from Holland here*

I usually won't go to bed until I have a sub 9 ao12. If I fail that, I try for a sub 2 ao12 on 2x2. If I fail that, I go to skewb and try for sub 4. If I fail that, I conclude that I'm near death and just go to bed.


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## PJKCuber (Oct 5, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> That is a pretty sweet country to live in. What is pension age? It is 67 in Holland.



Retirement age is 60 in India.


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## MarcelP (Oct 5, 2014)

Soren333 said:


> Whats up Marcel


Sup 


kclejeune said:


> I usually won't go to bed until I have a sub 9 ao12. If I fail that, I try for a sub 2 ao12 on 2x2. If I fail that, I go to skewb and try for sub 4. If I fail that, I conclude that I'm near death and just go to bed.


LOL.. yeah sometimes it is better to give up. For example when you times are starting get higher by every solve. 


PJKCuber said:


> Retirement age is 60 in India.


Wow, I still have to work 7 years after that. How unfair.  My only conclusion is that people in Holland might die at older age.


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## Gordon (Oct 7, 2014)

I've received my MoYu 5x5 yesterday, just in time for my comp on next Saturday, where I participate in 2x2, 5x5 and Skewb.
Even if the new cube dosn't turn as smooth as my Florian-Modded ShengShou, I just busted my PB of 4:03.92.

New PB: *3:37.08*

I highly doubt that I will get a sub-4:00 time next Saturday, but I hope for two sub-4:30. (I would have to be sub-3:00 to be able to do an avg of 5)


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## MarcelP (Oct 7, 2014)

Gordon said:


> I've received my MoYu 5x5 yesterday, just in time for my comp on next Saturday, where I participate in 2x2, 5x5 and Skewb.
> Even if the new cube dosn't turn as smooth as my Florian-Modded ShengShou, I just busted my PB of 4:03.92.
> 
> New PB: *3:37.08*
> ...



How do you do that. I did an Ao12 of 6.xx. Never ever had a sub 6 in my life. I must be doing it totally wrong since every one is faster than me. Next competition the cutoff for average is 3 minutes. Yeah.. Like I ever will reach that


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## Gordon (Oct 7, 2014)

I just use reduction. But after the six centers I first solve all white edges and put them in the correct orientation on the yellow side. Then I solve the yellow edges and put them on the white side. Then i solve the remaining four edges. For the last two edges I only know one case. 
Then 3x3 stage whith all white edges correctly oriented on the yellow side. 


And of course with some practice


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## MarcelP (Oct 7, 2014)

Gordon said:


> I just use reduction. But after the six centers I first solve all white edges and put them in the correct orientation on the yellow side. Then I solve the yellow edges and put them on the white side. Then i solve the remaining four edges. For the last two edges I only know one case.
> Then 3x3 stage whith all white edges correctly oriented on the yellow side.
> 
> 
> And of course with some practice



I use freeslice. I just did 30 scrambles and did centers only. Got a 2.30 average.. How do I get better on just that LOL..��


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## Schmidt (Oct 7, 2014)

By using different methods: you don't have to always do 3 3x1's! You could also have a 2x1 in the center and expand that to a 2x2 and then a 2x3 and last a 3x3.
look at Andy klise's 5x5 L2C pdf ( and all of his other PDFs , they are great.)


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## MarcelP (Oct 7, 2014)

Schmidt said:


> By using different methods: you don't have to always do 3 3x1's! You could also have a 2x1 in the center and expand that to a 2x2 and then a 2x3 and last a 3x3.
> look at Andy klise's 5x5 L2C pdf ( and all of his other PDFs , they are great.)


Yeah I do the 2x1 to 2x3 blocks too. I am not great at last two centers though..  I will check Andy's pdf.


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## Rocky0701 (Oct 7, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> Yeah I do the 2x1 to 2x3 blocks too. I am not great at last two centers though..  I will check Andy's pdf.


Watching Kevin and Feliks' example solves really helped me.


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## MarcelP (Oct 8, 2014)

Yesteday evening while watching TV I did many handscramble solves on 5X5. Never had a sub 6 untill today. Today in weekly competition:

6:06.38 5:50.08 (5:16.55) (6:13.72) 5:19.41 =* 5:45.29 *

 practice is paying off...


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## mark49152 (Oct 8, 2014)

The AoChuang makes 5x5 enjoyable . I've done more 5x5 than anything else in the last week. Ao12 of my last 12 was 5:32 with PB 4:08.

I do centres and cross tredges just like Hoya on 4x4. For the tredges, I solve midges like CFOP cross, then fill in the wing edges Hoya-style. 

For edge pairing, I start off like 323 on 4x4 but pairing a midge with just one wing on each slice, so it goes like 3222223. Towards the end, the midges already have the other wing attached so it starts forming full tredges. I find that approach easier than doing a whole tredge in each go. Looking ahead for midges is easier because there's only half the places to look at.

For fixing the last tredge when it's in a checker pattern, I discovered that my 4x4 OLL parity alg works as long as I don't turn the middle slice, and append a U2 M' (meaning just the middle slice, not the middle three - my notation is probably wrong).

Anyone else do any of this?


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## MarcelP (Oct 8, 2014)

mark49152 said:


> Anyone else do any of this?



yeah: http://youtu.be/OGpQrUuWmWo (that's where I learned)

I extended my Ao5 to a Ao12 PB :


Spoiler



5x5x5 cube
8-okt-2014 13:10:13 - 16:36:40

Mean: 5:34.78
Average: 5:29.42
Best time: 4:58.23
Median: 5:19.54
Worst time: 7:04.89
Standard deviation: 35.66

Best average of 5: *5:08.71*
6-10 - 5:03.67 5:07.67 (5:19.66) (*4:58.23)* 5:14.80

Best average of 12:* 5:29.42*
1-12 - 6:06.38 5:50.08 5:16.55 6:13.72 5:19.41 5:03.67 5:07.67 5:19.66 (4:58.23) 5:14.80 5:22.27 (7:04.89)


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## TDM (Oct 8, 2014)

mark49152 said:


> Anyone else do any of this?


This sounds similar to what I do. My method is:

First 4 centres, just like Hoya
L/R/B cross edges, same as Hoya
Solve either the BR or BL edge in the same way you solved the cross edges
Solve that F2L pair - it helps to use either F2 or R' F' R to take the edge out of FD depending on its orientation so you can solve the pair without rotating.
Do the same with the other back F2L pair
Solve the F centre - this should also solve the U centre, but I find it helpful to only focus on one of the centres.
Solve the last cross edge, and try to pair at least two edge pieces together (but don't complete the tredge)
AvG edge pairing - I slice with Uw instead of Dw like AvG does. Lookahead is really easy for this step - I often don't have to pause after I get ~1/4 of the way through edge pairing.
Petrus 3x3 stage, but you can do CFOP too

My cross edges really suck though - I just can't look ahead or find the pieces I need. Can you look ahead during cross edges? Do you turn slowly, or do you just try to turn as fast as possible? I might try your method for cross edges and see if I find that easier than doing them one at a time.

E: ok so I've done a couple of solves with a variation of your method (start with centres+cross as in your method, freeslice two adjacent F2L tredges and make one pair, fix centres, solve pairs and continue like my method) and looking ahead is so easy, except the freeslice part. This could motivate me to practise 5x5 even more 
(I still need to get an AoChuang...)


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## MarcelP (Oct 8, 2014)

I have a tip for Mark and Gordon, I have found out this trick myself:

[video=youtube_share;-CqxsUMDW0A]http://youtu.be/-CqxsUMDW0A[/video]


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## Logiqx (Oct 8, 2014)

mark49152 said:


> For fixing the last tredge when it's in a checker pattern, I discovered that my 4x4 OLL parity alg works as long as I don't turn the middle slice, and append a U2 M' (meaning just the middle slice, not the middle three - my notation is probably wrong).



Yup. I figured that one out as well.

I use standard reduction / free slice but I quite like the look of Hoya. I plan to give it a go on 4x4x4 and 5x5x5 some time!


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## Logiqx (Oct 8, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> I have a tip for Mark and Gordon, I have found out this trick myself



Cool... nice and simple. Thanks!


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## h2f (Oct 8, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> I have a tip for Mark and Gordon, I have found out this trick myself:
> 
> http://youtu.be/-CqxsUMDW0A



Nice! There are other tricks or just algs for last 2 edges. Check this page: http://meep.cubing.net/l2e.html
I haven't learnt all algs, but found P-parity and D-parity very easy to learn and use.


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## MarcelP (Oct 8, 2014)

h2f said:


> Nice! There are other tricks or just algs for last 2 edges. Check this page: http://meep.cubing.net/l2e.html
> I haven't learnt all algs, but found P-parity and D-parity very easy to learn and use.



Thanks. I am at the point where I do not want to learn new algs.. LOL These parity cases look indeed not so hard to learn.


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## h2f (Oct 8, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> Thanks. I am at the point where I do not want to learn new algs..



I know what You mean, I am at the same point.


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## sneaklyfox (Oct 9, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> I have a tip for Mark and Gordon, I have found out this trick myself:
> 
> http://youtu.be/-CqxsUMDW0A



Ok, except to flip the FR edge I do
R U R' F R' F' R


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## MarcelP (Oct 9, 2014)

sneaklyfox said:


> Ok, except to flip the FR edge I do
> R U R' F R' F' R



What do you average on 5X5?


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## Schmidt (Oct 9, 2014)

*Søren Schmidt*

_also known as Schmidt on speedsolving.com_ (Click here to see his all time best results...)

2x2x210th place*8.01*6.00, 5.46, 9.78, 9.50, 8.523x3x314th place*21.20*19.31, 23.88, 21.53, 20.46, 21.614x4x45th place*1:26.81*1:50.19, 1:28.33, 1:18.16, 1:33.71, 1:18.385x5x54th place*4:08.65*7:05.27, 4:22.06, 3:59.43, 4:04.46, 3:17.163x3x3 one-handed5th place*49.70*59.78, 51.34, 47.91, 48.46, 49.302x2x2 + 3x3x3 + 4x4x4 Relay6th place*2:19.97*2:19.97Clock3rd place*18.85*18.72, 15.41, 17.43, 20.41, 26.86Pyraminx7th place*14.85*10.28, 11.93, 21.55, 16.41, 16.21Skewb9th place*23.11*14.38, 21.65, 21.46, 30.21, 26.21
My cubing this week


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## kcl (Oct 9, 2014)

I may try Hoya on 5x5. I like redux, but I feel like it may be worth it to switch for easier transition to 3x3, and better lookahead for l8e.


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## MarcelP (Oct 9, 2014)

Schmidt said:


> *Søren Schmidt*
> 
> _also known as Schmidt on speedsolving.com_ (Click here to see his all time best results...)
> 
> ...



Nice times Søren. I see I can only beat you in the main event  Everyting else you are 40% faster than me.



kclejeune said:


> I may try Hoya on 5x5. I like redux, but I feel like it may be worth it to switch for easier transition to 3x3, and better lookahead for l8e.



Yeah I want to look into that also.. I need a sheet like this with all the cases for pairing white edges (http://www.ocf.berkeley.edu/~dadams/hoya/) but then for 5X5...


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## mark49152 (Oct 9, 2014)

TDM said:


> This sounds similar to what I do. My method is:
> 
> First 4 centres, just like Hoya
> L/R/B cross edges, same as Hoya
> ...


I really like the idea of pairing (tripling?) those back tredges in the same manner as the cross edges. Will give it a go. Thanks. However, I might still solve the whole cross first and see if I can stash the front edge somewhere, because I think it would throw my cross solving to do only three tredges.



TDM said:


> Can you look ahead during cross edges? Do you turn slowly, or do you just try to turn as fast as possible?



I always turn slow on 5x5 because I physically can't turn it fast, so actually I find lookahead comes easier. I only solve the wing edges one at a time using 2-3 simple inserts, and during each insert I have enough time to spot the next wing edge. I don't search for the other one matching the front edge - if it's there, great, otherwise I just go for the first I see or the easiest insert, and turn D to choose the right edge. I figured adjusting D is better than pausing and I never have to look or think because I know my cross colour scheme well.




MarcelP said:


> I have a tip for Mark and Gordon, I have found out this trick myself:


Thanks, yes I do the same, but using Sneakly's flipper. I use that a lot for flipping edges throughout pairing. I found that pretty much every case of last two tredges can be either solved or reduced to a single parity tredge, intuitively, using variants of the same slice, flip, slice back approach. So I don't know any special cases for the last two tredges.


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## TDM (Oct 9, 2014)

mark49152 said:


> I really like the idea of pairing (tripling?) those back tredges in the same manner as the cross edges. Will give it a go. Thanks. However, I might still solve the whole cross first and see if I can stash the front edge somewhere, because I think it would throw my cross solving to do only three tredges.


(why is explaining things clearly so hard for me)

I tried using your cross method (which is amazing btw, thanks) and because it solves all four cross edges, I've been trying to see where's best to hide the DF cross edge - I usually, after seeing which back tredge I'm going to solve, will hide the cross edge in the _other slot_. That way, after solving the tredge and then the F2L pair, I still have the cross edge hidden, _and_ I have both the back slots filled, meaning it's easier to find the pieces I'm looking for to solve that other tredge.



> I always turn slow on 5x5 because I physically can't turn it fast, so actually I find lookahead comes easier. I only solve the wing edges one at a time using 2-3 simple inserts, and during each insert I have enough time to spot the next wing edge. I don't search for the other one matching the front edge - if it's there, great, otherwise I just go for the first I see or the easiest insert, and turn D to choose the right edge. I figured adjusting D is better than pausing and I never have to look or think because I know my cross colour scheme well.


My 5x5 is bad half the time, but for some reason it can be very fast for some parts of the solve 
Everyone prefers different ways for edge pairing... I hate freeslice even though other people love it, because my lookahead is _very_ bad with it. My lookahead sucks with every other edge pairing method too, except my one, which is why I use it  I also never get edge pairing 'parity', which is useful.

and yeah I should probably learn my colour scheme, I still fail 4x4 cross/centres/both way too often...


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## sneaklyfox (Oct 10, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> What do you average on 5X5?



I really don't know anymore and I can't even remember. I never seriously got into 5x5 and I haven't done much solves in a long time. PBs are in link in my sig if you wanna check it out...


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## Gordon (Oct 11, 2014)

Ok. I'm up and ready for competition 

Goals:
- Skewb: PBs single and avg, at least one sub-20 single
- 2x2: sub-10 average, sub-8 single
- 5x5: two sub-4:30

Lately I've had some sub-4:00 5x5 times. It would be a nice surprise to get one at the comp.

Here's the link to the results: http://cubecomps.com/live.php?cid=633


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## MarcelP (Oct 11, 2014)

Break a leg! I will follow the results!


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## Gordon (Oct 11, 2014)

Three ****ing minutes eighteen seconds for the 5x5!!


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## MarcelP (Oct 11, 2014)

Holy crap! That's how long my centers take..  Congrats!


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## Schmidt (Oct 11, 2014)

Pfft! Nothing compared to the new WR of 0.47


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## MarcelP (Oct 11, 2014)

Yeah, I saw that one too


----------



## mark49152 (Oct 11, 2014)

Schmidt said:


> Pfft! Nothing compared to the new WR of 0.47


That TPS


----------



## MarcelP (Oct 11, 2014)

New PB 
*4:51.98* Lw Fw' Bw2 D' Bw Lw2 Bw' U F' Fw2 L' Dw D Bw Lw' Uw' D2 Rw' D Fw Lw U2 F L F B Rw' F' U2 L2 Lw2 U' B' R2 F' Fw R' B L F2 L2 Rw' F Bw R2 Bw' Uw' D F' Fw U2 Uw Dw B2 Dw R F' Fw' Bw L2

EDIT:


Spoiler: This feels great



Mean: 5:00.50
Average: 4:57.49
Best time: 4:37.66
Median: 5:00.06
Worst time: 5:35.40
Standard deviation: 19.65

Best average of 5:* 4:53.73*
2-6 - 4:51.98 (5:08.76) 4:41.08 (4:37.66) 5:08.13


----------



## Gordon (Oct 11, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> Holy crap! That's how long my centers take..  Congrats!



Thanks! I was very surprised when I saw the time.

All in all, I've reached most of my goals. Except the two sub-4:30 solves.


----------



## uniacto (Oct 12, 2014)

more than two years later... this thread is still alive. Ive come and gone in sporadic bursts of my cubing addiction, but this thread is still here. that's crazy. You've progressed so much since you started! congrats!


----------



## kcl (Oct 12, 2014)

uniacto said:


> more than two years later... this thread is still alive. Ive come and gone in sporadic bursts of my cubing addiction, but this thread is still here. that's crazy. You've progressed so much since you started! congrats!



omg are you back?


----------



## IRNjuggle28 (Oct 12, 2014)

This thread is epic. How did it start? Most "member introduction" threads don't go much of anywhere. Why did this one?


----------



## MarcelP (Oct 12, 2014)

uniacto said:


> more than two years later... this thread is still alive. Ive come and gone in sporadic bursts of my cubing addiction, but this thread is still here. that's crazy. You've progressed so much since you started! congrats!



Thanks! Just hanging in there..


----------



## MarcelP (Oct 12, 2014)

New 3X3 Ao100 PB  Jay! Did not expect that all since I have been doing nothing but 5X


Spoiler



Generated By csTimer on 2014-10-12
solves/total: 110/110

single
best: 15.31
worst: 29.84

mean of 3
current: 19.24 (σ = 2.61)
best: 17.33 (σ = 0.89)

avg of 5
current: 20.99 (σ = 0.56)
best: 17.76 (σ = 0.60)

avg of 12
current: 19.99 (σ = 1.89)
best: 18.86 (σ = 1.54)

avg of 50
current: 19.79 (σ = 1.47)
best: *19.56 *(σ = 1.60)

avg of 100
current: 19.99 (σ = 1.72)
* best: 19.92 (σ = 1.65)*

Average: 19.99 (σ = 1.65)
Mean: 20.07


----------



## Rocky0701 (Oct 12, 2014)

Awesome Marcel! Good to see that you are still improving even when you are focused on 5x5.


----------



## mark49152 (Oct 12, 2014)

Nice one Marcel. I found that big cubes made my 3x3 slower!


----------



## PJKCuber (Oct 12, 2014)

Nice one Marcel! I look forward to posting here everyday and becoming aquainted with you?


----------



## MarcelP (Oct 12, 2014)

Rocky0701 said:


> Awesome Marcel! Good to see that you are still improving even when you are focused on 5x5.



Yeah, it is nice to take a brake at 3X3 for a while. I have had not one single brake since the day I came here. Doing 5X5 is also really fun.



mark49152 said:


> Nice one Marcel. I found that big cubes made my 3x3 slower!



Going from a 5X5 for 3X3 feels like a breeze to me. Lookahead is so easy with these big cubies on a 3X3. And a 3X3 turns so easy, fingerticks are possible  I have been doing a lot of 3X3 up untill the last competition, so it will take a while before times become worse I guess.


PJKCuber said:


> Nice one Marcel! I look forward to posting here everyday and becoming aquainted with you?



Thanks.


----------



## mark49152 (Oct 12, 2014)

New PBs on 5x5: 4:26 ao5, and 3:36 single. I'm loving 5x5 and credit to my AoChuang for that 



TDM said:


> I tried using your cross method (which is amazing btw, thanks) and because it solves all four cross edges, I've been trying to see where's best to hide the DF cross edge - I usually, after seeing which back tredge I'm going to solve, will hide the cross edge in the _other slot_. That way, after solving the tredge and then the F2L pair, I still have the cross edge hidden, _and_ I have both the back slots filled, meaning it's easier to find the pieces I'm looking for to solve that other tredge.


I tried your idea of solving the back two F2L slots and found it didn't work too well for me, but I definitely like filling those slots early to help lookahead. So here's what I've been doing.

1. Solve cross midges CFOP style, then widges Hoya style.
2. Hide the FD tredge by F' R'.
3. For whatever random midge just ended up in FD, now solve its widges, Hoya style.
4. Hide this dredge by F L.

Here's the trick: At this point, both back tredges are filled, so I don't bother to restore the cross yet.

5. Edge pairing using AvG or similar between the front slots.
6. Restore cross with L' R F and adjust D face if necessary.
7. Bake in a hot oven and enjoy with a glass of red.

This saves a lot of messing around trying to fill those back slots some other way. It's tricky at first getting used to FD not being solved because sometimes a midge you need can be trapped there. The first time I get a solved tredge on slicing back, I'll do an F or F' to tuck it into FD and then problem solved.


----------



## Logiqx (Oct 13, 2014)

I went to watch Cuthberts Open in Hatfield yesterday. It was cool to see some of the top solvers in action. 

I've uploaded a few videos to my YouTube channel. I checked everything this morning to ensure there is no controversy.

The turn speed of Alex Lau during his L6E is ridiculous!


----------



## TDM (Oct 13, 2014)

mark49152 said:


> I tried your idea of solving the back two F2L slots and found it didn't work too well for me, but I definitely like filling those slots early to help lookahead. So here's what I've been doing.
> 
> 1. Solve cross midges CFOP style, then widges Hoya style.
> 2. Hide the FD tredge by F' R'.
> ...


That's a nice idea. I'm just trying every 5x5 method I see now until I find something decent; I'm at college now and don't have my 5x5 but I'll try that when I get back. I never thought of keeping random unsolved edges in the back slots.
Also it's an excuse to use AvG, which I love, yay.


----------



## MarcelP (Oct 13, 2014)

TDM said:


> Also it's an excuse to use AvG, which I love, yay.



I wish someone would make an instruction video of that


----------



## mark49152 (Oct 13, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> I wish someone would make an instruction video of that


It's worth working through AvG's beginner example. 

I use a similar approach based on what I do for 4x4. Do you use 3-2-3 on 4x4? If so, try the same approach on 5x5, but looking for midges and slicing them (three layers) into place to build partial tredges. 

I find it so much easier than trying to build whole tredges at a time via freeslice.


----------



## TDM (Oct 13, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> I wish someone would make an instruction video of that


I'll see what I can do, but I've never done a tutorial before, so it'll probably suck. However, I can't just avoid making video tutorials forever...


----------



## MarcelP (Oct 13, 2014)

Yes please!


----------



## sk8erman41 (Oct 14, 2014)

love seeing all the progress in this thread. Heres today's Ao50


Spoiler: full results



Generated By csTimer on 2014-10-14
solves/total: 50/50

single
best: 15.90
worst: 30.50

mean of 3
current: 18.12 (σ = 1.55)
best: 18.12 (σ = 1.55)

avg of 5
current: 18.73 (σ = 0.96)
best: 18.64 (σ = 0.22)

avg of 12
current: 20.72 (σ = 2.95)
best: 20.09 (σ = 1.61)

avg of 50
current: 21.04 (σ = 2.69)
best: 21.04 (σ = 2.69)

Average: 21.04 (σ = 2.69)
Mean: 21.22

Time List:
1. 20.46 D2 L' F2 R' B2 L F2 R2 U2 R B2 D' U' R' F' R B' L' D2 B2 F 
2. 20.39 B' L2 U R' L' D' F2 L2 F' R F' R2 D2 B2 R2 D2 R2 F U2 F2 L2 
3. 18.91 B L2 F2 R2 F' U2 L2 R2 U2 R2 F R U2 B' R' U L' F2 L2 D' F 
4. 25.08 F L' D' F' U' F L2 F' R' B' L2 D2 B2 R2 U F2 R2 F2 U' B2 D 
5. 24.21 L' B' R' L F' U2 B2 L2 B R' U' L2 U F2 U' R2 L2 B2 D' F2 R2 
6. 15.90 L2 R2 B2 U2 R2 D2 B' D2 L2 B' R2 D F' R2 B2 R2 U2 F' R D' R' 
7. 24.76 L2 D2 F2 L2 U2 B2 U' L2 D' F2 L2 B U L' U L' R B' D2 U' L 
8. 24.91 L2 F2 D' B2 F2 D2 R2 U' R2 B2 D' B L' F2 L' U' B2 L' B2 U L2 
9. 18.38 B D2 F' U2 L2 B' R2 D2 B2 U2 L' F' D2 B2 R' U L' U F2 D2 
10. 18.78 U2 F2 U F2 U' R2 U' B2 U' F2 L' F R B U2 R U B' R 
11. 18.75 D' L' B U2 D L F' B' L' B' L2 F2 L2 D2 B' R2 L2 F2 D2 
12. 17.63 U2 F R2 D2 F L2 D2 F U2 L2 B' L B2 D B L R F D' B2 
13. 22.92 B2 U R2 U2 B2 D' B2 R2 F2 R2 F2 R' D F R F D2 R' D B U 
14. 21.61 B D2 L2 F2 L2 R2 D2 R2 U2 B' R D L' B2 R2 B' D' B2 R F' 
15. 27.78 R' U2 L' F2 L' B2 U2 F2 L2 U2 F D B2 U F2 U' L B' R' 
16. 30.50 U' F2 R' L' D2 B' U R F2 L' B U2 L' F2 D2 F2 R U2 R U2 R' 
17. 17.39 B2 U2 R U2 L2 U2 L' B2 F2 U2 R' B D2 R' B L' B' D' F 
18. 22.15 D R2 D' R2 F2 U F2 L2 D' L2 F2 L' D B R' D' B U F D F 
19. 19.65 F R2 B R2 D2 F U2 B R2 B2 R' D F' L2 U B R B2 D' U' 
20. 23.53 L B2 U2 B U' R L2 U2 B' R2 U' R2 L2 U' F2 D' L2 U D R2 
21. 21.92 F2 U2 B U2 L2 F U2 F U2 F2 U2 R' D2 F D2 U' R2 F2 L2 U' 
22. 18.94 U' L2 D' F2 U L2 R2 B2 U' F2 U F D' R2 D' U2 L' U2 R' D L 
23. 20.01 B2 D' B2 L2 B2 U B2 D' F2 R2 D2 R' B R U2 F' D' R D2 F R' 
24. 19.91 B' D2 U2 B' L2 B2 F D2 F2 U2 R2 D R U B D L2 R B' D' B2 
25. 17.61 R2 F' D' B2 L' U' R' L B U' L2 U2 R2 F' D2 B' L2 F2 R2 D2 F 
26. 24.92 B2 U' R2 B2 U2 R2 D' L2 D' R2 B2 F' L D2 U' B2 L' F' R U2 L2 
27. 17.11 F2 D2 U' R2 B2 D B2 R2 U' L2 U' L' D' F' L B R B' R' U' R 
28. 23.11 U2 R U2 R D2 R B2 U2 R' F2 D' B' R2 D' U' L B D' B F2 
29. 19.51 D2 U2 L' U2 R' F2 R' D2 L' U2 F U L F2 R' U2 R2 B' F 
30. 20.49 L2 R2 D2 B U2 F R2 D2 B D2 B L' U' R' B U2 R' D L' D2 L' 
31. 20.97 L2 U2 L2 D2 B2 L2 B D2 L2 U2 L' D2 R D B2 L2 U L2 F U' 
32. 21.84 U F2 R2 B2 U' R2 U F2 D B2 U2 F D' R' U L F L' U' B' D2 
33. 18.53 R2 F2 U B2 D2 L2 U' L2 U2 F2 U F' R F D2 L' D' R' U2 F' R2 
34. 27.01 B2 U2 R U F' L' D' B R2 F D' B2 L2 U' F2 R2 U' F2 B2 U F2 
35. 22.06 F2 D2 L' R2 D2 R2 B2 R2 B2 R' F' U F' R2 F2 R B' L2 F2 
36. 24.98 L2 F' R' F2 D' F2 B U B2 U B2 R' L2 B2 L2 F2 D2 F2 L' F2 B2 
37. 20.35 B2 D L2 D' B2 F2 L2 U F2 U L2 R F2 D2 U B' D2 F L B' F 
38. 16.83 R2 D2 R2 B' F2 L2 D2 U2 B F2 D' R2 U2 F L2 U' R F2 L' F' U' 
39. 27.52 L2 U' R2 D2 B2 F2 D' B2 D R2 D B' F R' D U2 B' L' R F2 L' 
40. 20.47 F L2 R2 U2 B' U2 F R2 F U' R' B F2 R2 D' U' B' D' F' 
41. 17.53 U2 F R D L' U B' U R' B R2 L2 U2 R2 U2 B2 R2 U F2 U' 
42. 25.53 L2 B2 U2 R F2 R' D2 R2 D2 B2 L U' F' R D2 L2 F' L D F' D2 
43. 26.04 B' R2 U2 B' R2 F D2 B D2 U2 F2 D' R' D' L B' D' L' B L' U' 
44. 19.56 U' F2 B R2 B2 U2 D R' B' R2 U2 L2 U L2 D2 F2 R2 U2 B2 R2 
45. 20.04 B2 D U B2 L2 D R2 U L2 R2 D L' R U R2 U' B F U' L2 
46. 18.53 U' B2 F2 L2 U' R2 U' L2 U2 F2 D2 L' B2 L2 B' F2 L' U' L2 B 
47. 21.83 R D2 U2 R' D2 L F2 L' B2 F2 R' U' B' D2 R2 D B2 L' B' D2 B 
48. 17.89 U2 R2 F D2 U2 R2 B L2 R2 U2 F2 R' B L' R2 F' U L' F2 D' R2 
49. 16.70 R2 U R2 U2 F2 D' L2 F2 U F2 U' B F' U' L' F2 L R2 F' D2 F 
50. 19.78 F2 U2 F' U2 F' D2 F' L2 B' D2 B' D R2 B' L2 D2 F2 L U' L'





Spoiler: distribution



14+: 1
16+: 8
18+: 12
20+: 12
22+: 5
24+: 7
26+: 4
28+: 0
30+: 1


----------



## Rocky0701 (Oct 15, 2014)

sk8erman41 said:


> love seeing all the progress in this thread. Heres today's Ao50
> 
> 
> Spoiler: full results
> ...


Nice! I bet if you do 50 more solves on top of that you can easily break your ao100 PB by like half a second.


----------



## MarcelP (Oct 15, 2014)

My first 50 are most of the times the best 50 in a Ao100  Good job sk8terman41.


----------



## MarcelP (Oct 15, 2014)

For the CN people (the real cool people) 

8. 14.76 L2 F2 B U2 R2 U2 B U2 R2 F' B' R F L2 F' B2 D2 U F2 L' R F' R U B'

I had 18.xx on second try on yellow but the 14.76 on first try on green


----------



## Logiqx (Oct 15, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> For the CN people (the real cool people)
> 
> 8. 14.76 L2 F2 B U2 R2 U2 B U2 R2 F' B' R F L2 F' B2 D2 U F2 L' R F' R U B'
> 
> I had 18.xx on second try on yellow but the 14.76 on first try on green



Nice scramble. An easy 2-gen X-cross on green (5 moves, re-gripless).


----------



## MarcelP (Oct 15, 2014)

Logiqx said:


> Nice scramble. An easy 2-gen X-cross on green (5 moves, re-gripless).



Hence the full step sub 15 .. But you know.. I feel like Feliks when I pull something like that off LOL.. I need more scrambles like that..

edit:
You mean z R2' U' R U R . I missed that. 

I did

x' y' // inspection
R U' R' Y U R U' R' // FIRST PAIR
y' R' F R2 U2 R' F U2 F' // CROSS + 2ND PAIR
L U' L' U L U L' //3RD
R U R' U F' U' F //F2l
OLL
PLL


----------



## PJKCuber (Oct 15, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> For the CN people (the real cool people)
> 
> 8. 14.76 L2 F2 B U2 R2 U2 B U2 R2 F' B' R F L2 F' B2 D2 U F2 L' R F' R U B'
> 
> I had 18.xx on second try on yellow but the 14.76 on first try on green



Haha I'm cool then.


----------



## Logiqx (Oct 15, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> You mean z R2' U' R U R . I missed that.



Yeah. That's the one... you can also finish with an l rather than an R so the cross is facing down afterwards.

ISTR the second pair was easy enough to be planned during inspection so I should have gone for a fully planned xx-cross!


----------



## TDM (Oct 15, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> L2 F2 B U2 R2 U2 B U2 R2 F' B' R F L2 F' B2 D2 U F2 L' R F' R U B'


wow, that's a really good scramble...

z y2 // Inspection
R2 U' l F R // X-cross (5/5)
[U D'] R U' R' E' // F2L-2 (5/10)
R U R' // F2L-3 (3/13)
y R U2 R' U' R U2 R' // WVLS (7/20)
R' U L' U2 R U' R' U2 R L U // PLL (11/31)

20 moves up to PLL!

Also I'm uploading the AvG edge pairing stuff now, but it takes a long time for me to upload videos, so it could be a few hours.


----------



## MarcelP (Oct 15, 2014)

TDM said:


> wow, that's a really good scramble...
> 
> z y2 // Inspection
> R2 U' l F R // X-cross (5/5)
> ...



Nice x-cross  I had quite a bit more moves.



TDM said:


> Also I'm uploading the AvG edge pairing stuff now, but it takes a long time for me to upload videos, so it could be a few hours.



Cool.. I had PB Ao5 and Ao12 just now...



Spoiler



5x5x5 cube 15-okt-2014 

Mean: 5:05.55
Average: 5:03.83
Best time: 4:05.67
Median: 4:57.85
Worst time: 6:24.35
Standard deviation: 43.67

Best average of 5: 4:43.32
3-7 - 4:51.73 4:57.85 (4:05.67) 4:20.39 (5:17.51)

Best average of 12: 4:57.93
2-13 - (6:24.35) 4:51.73 4:57.85 (4:05.67) 4:20.39 5:17.51 5:30.26 5:00.66 6:11.72 4:31.06 4:43.75 4:14.41


----------



## Logiqx (Oct 15, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> Cool.. I had PB Ao5 and Ao12 just now...



Your 5x5x5 times have plummeted recently. Good work!


----------



## MarcelP (Oct 15, 2014)

Logiqx said:


> Your 5x5x5 times have plummeted recently. Good work!



Thanks, yeah but I practice nothing but 5X5 at the moment


----------



## Rocky0701 (Oct 16, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> Nice x-cross  I had quite a bit more moves.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Nice! You have gotten me back into 5x5 now haha. I just got a 2:20.97 single and 2:37.98 ao5 tonight


----------



## Logiqx (Oct 16, 2014)

After filming some of the stars at Cuthberts Open, I decided to upload a few of my better solves to my channel.

I was really quite bad today... zero look-ahead but I did catch a 18.51 Ao5 on film.



Spoiler



Let me know what you think... besides the 3xPLL during the last solve,


----------



## TDM (Oct 16, 2014)

Here's the AvG video. Sorry about the bad video quality; my camera is about half my age


----------



## MarcelP (Oct 16, 2014)

Logiqx said:


> After filming some of the stars at Cuthberts Open, I decided to upload a few of my better solves to my channel.
> 
> I was really quite bad today... zero look-ahead but I did catch a 18.51 Ao5 on film.
> 
> ...



That is really nice. After the first two solves I went back and restarted. You turned so slow but got very good times. That is how smooth and pauseless solves look like. Good stuff.



TDM said:


> Here's the AvG video. Sorry about the bad video quality; my camera is about half my age


Great! I have seen so many thing I do not use myself. This video will help my solves a lot. I must watch it a few times again. Thanks!


----------



## Logiqx (Oct 16, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> That is really nice. After the first two solves I went back and restarted. You turned so slow but got very good times. That is how smooth and pauseless solves look like. Good stuff.



Thanks. I try to vary my turn speed slightly throughout the solve. Using this approach, I get my "good times" (relative term) pretty effortlessly but I constantly need to remind myself not to rush!

Today was also the first time I did timed solves with the cube starting on the desk. For some reason it actually seemed to calm me down...


----------



## mark49152 (Oct 17, 2014)

Great videos, thanks TDM and Logiqx. Logiqx, you made that average look so easy! I feel like I turn twice that fast and frantically, with worse times. I guess that's the point 

TDM, did you try my 5x5 edge hiding idea?

New PLL time attack PB today: 48.08. If only I could do them that fast in solves! I finish well if I get an EPLL or A perm, but anything else seems to go locky on me.


----------



## Rocky0701 (Oct 17, 2014)

Logiqx said:


> Thanks. I try to vary my turn speed slightly throughout the solve. Using this approach, I get my "good times" (relative term) pretty effortlessly but I constantly need to remind myself not to rush!
> 
> Today was also the first time I did timed solves with the cube starting on the desk. For some reason it actually seemed to calm me down...


Yeah, you made it seem like those sub 20s were no big deal! I always like watching solves thst are in the ballpark of my speed. Your turning style has so much flow! I haven't ever uploaded any of my solves, I want to see if I can get a sub 19 ao5 on video tomorrow and I'll post it here.


----------



## TDM (Oct 17, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> Great! I have seen so many thing I do not use myself. This video will help my solves a lot. I must watch it a few times again. Thanks!


Sorry if it isn't clear; it was really hard to find a good angle where you could see the U layer. But I was purposely vague on inserting the middle edges, especially how you insert them to make sure they aren't flipped. I find it's better to learn when you have to do some of it for yourself rather than being told everything.


mark49152 said:


> Great videos, thanks TDM and Logiqx. Logiqx, you made that average look so easy! I feel like I turn twice that fast and frantically, with worse times. I guess that's the point
> 
> TDM, did you try my 5x5 edge hiding idea?


Thanks! Yes I did, and I'm still practising it because I still suck at it  I've been doing less 5x5 recently though; since I got my AoSu I've done 4x4 the most.


----------



## Logiqx (Oct 17, 2014)

If only I could do similar solves most of the time! 



mark49152 said:


> Logiqx, you made that average look so easy! I feel like I turn twice that fast and frantically, with worse times. I guess that's the point



Thanks Mark. I didn't realise it at the time but I guess it shows how we can get sub-20 times with relative ease through slow turning... variable speed during F2L then fast for LS, OLL and PLL.

It's all well and good a sub-10 or even sub-15 solver saying they can sub-20 with slow turning but you never know what other experience they are drawing upon.



Rocky0701 said:


> Yeah, you made it seem like those sub 20s were no big deal! I always like watching solves that are in the ballpark of my speed. Your turning style has so much flow!



Thanks. I'll look forward to your video. How about one for 4x4x4 as well?


----------



## Logiqx (Oct 17, 2014)

Ye-ha... I got a full set of PBs today!

This was despite an average of around 22s after 20 solves. 



Spoiler



number of times: 102/102
best time: 14.38
worst time: 33.41

current avg5: 20.45 (σ = 1.22)
best avg5: 17.83 (σ = 1.91)

current avg12: 20.36 (σ = 2.72)
best avg12: 19.32 (σ = 2.43)

current avg50: 20.93 (σ = 2.19)
best avg50: 20.60 (σ = 1.75)

current avg100: 21.16 (σ = 2.12)
best avg100: 21.13 (σ = 2.13)

session avg: 21.13 (σ = 2.02)
session mean: 21.21


----------



## MarcelP (Oct 17, 2014)

Logiqx said:


> Ye-ha... I got a full set of PBs today!
> 
> This was despite an average of around 22s after 20 solves.
> 
> ...



Congrats! That is real nice to break all PB's in a day. I don't think I have had ever.


----------



## MarcelP (Oct 17, 2014)

I filmed a few solves today. You clearly can see my style is so much different from Logiqx. Much more pauses, but slight higher TPS resulting in roughly same times.



Spoiler



57. 17.58 R2 F2 U' L2 B2 U R2 U2 F2 D R2 F D B' U L D' R2 D' U' 
58. DNF U' B' D F U2 F2 L U2 B' L2 U2 D R2 L2 B2 U' R2 D2 F2 R2 // messed up from begin to end 
59. 17.81 U2 F2 L2 U R2 U L2 R2 U R2 U F' D2 L' F' L' U L B U R' 
60. 18.66 U2 L2 B2 U2 R F2 R2 U2 R U2 L' U L' F L B2 L' U2 L2 B2 
61. 20.50 D2 U' R2 D' B2 D L2 F2 U' R2 U2 F L' B R2 D B' L' D' L D'



@Schmidt, In the video (first solve) you can see not all my T-perms take 5 secs as in the competition 
[video=youtube_share;ONMfdA5BW1o]http://youtu.be/ONMfdA5BW1o[/video]


----------



## Antonie faz fan (Oct 17, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> I filmed a few solves today. You clearly can see my style is so much different from Logiqx. Much more pauses, but slight higher TPS resulting in roughly same times.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



nice one!


----------



## Logiqx (Oct 17, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> Congrats! That is real nice to break all PB's in a day. I don't think I have had ever.



They were my first PBs in the last couple of weeks. I wasn't too worried though because my session averages were improving during that time and good solves are starting to feel normal.

I also started to integrate new Gc and Gd algorithms today. I never liked the traditional algs (prone to lockup) so I have switched to the same Gc as Mats and Felix. I use the inverse of Gc for Gd which isn't very common but it flows well and I like inverses!


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## Logiqx (Oct 17, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> I filmed a few solves today. You clearly can see my style is so much different from Logiqx. Much more pauses, but slight higher TPS resulting in roughly same times.



Interesting to see how our turning styles differ for similar times. I wonder how Mark turns?


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## MarcelP (Oct 17, 2014)

Logiqx said:


> I wonder how Mark turns?



Me too. I quess we will never know..


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## mark49152 (Oct 17, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> Me too. I quess we will never know..


Not sure. I think more like Marcel. I try to be smooth and don't feel like I pause for long, at least on my sub-20 solves, but I haven't videoed myself to check, and maybe my pauses are worse than they seem.

One day I will create a YouTube channel and upload a vid, but don't hold your breath...


----------



## ThomasJE (Oct 17, 2014)

I take a break from cubing (mainly for exams and some chess, but not at the same time ) and you've nearly caught up with me. I need to practice more...

And 5x5? I never learn't to completely solve that (can do all but last few edge pairings).


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## MarcelP (Oct 17, 2014)

ThomasJE said:


> I take a break from cubing (mainly for exams and some chess, but not at the same time ) and you've nearly caught up with me. I need to practice more...
> 
> And 5x5? I never learn't to completely solve that (can do all but last few edge pairings).



Hey Thomas, last few edge parings can be done with one alg. Maybe I will shoot a video of that this week with all cases..


----------



## Rocky0701 (Oct 18, 2014)

Logiqx said:


> If only I could do similar solves most of the time!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Here you go! Please excuse my loud breathing, my face was right next to the camera, so you might want to mute it. Really bad 3x3 average of 21.07 because I get nervous on cam and never get a good average, but there were a couple good 19s. The 4x4 solve was pretty good since I only had to have one good solve, VS an average. 4x4 is definitely my favorite event, with 5x5 a close second.


----------



## Rocky0701 (Oct 18, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> Congrats! That is real nice to break all PB's in a day. I don't think I have had ever.


Really? Whenever I get a new PB ao100, all the other ones are always PBs except for sometimes single.



Logiqx said:


> Ye-ha... I got a full set of PBs today!
> 
> This was despite an average of around 22s after 20 solves.
> 
> ...


Nice man! You are on the road to sub 20 too!



MarcelP said:


> I filmed a few solves today. You clearly can see my style is so much different from Logiqx. Much more pauses, but slight higher TPS resulting in roughly same times.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Nice T-perm Marcel  that DNF was unfortunate, but the other solves were really good.



Logiqx said:


> Interesting to see how our turning styles differ for similar times. I wonder how Mark turns?


Idk, you both seem to have really smooth turning styles. I bet Mark would be the same since his solves are usually really consistent. I have a really sketchy turning style.


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## MarcelP (Oct 18, 2014)

Rocky0701 said:


> Here you go! Please excuse my loud breathing, my face was right next to the camera, so you might want to mute it. Really bad 3x3 average of 21.07 because I get nervous on cam and never get a good average, but there were a couple good 19s. The 4x4 solve was pretty good since I only had to have one good solve, VS an average. 4x4 is definitely my favorite event, with 5x5 a close second.



Nice! Looking at your 4X4 solve I think I should be able to pull that off. But in real my solves are almost always over 2 minutes. Your 3X3 style is very similair to mine. Same speed, same pauses  Nice to see a green cross between the white and black crosses. CN people are just a bit cooler than the rest.


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## Rocky0701 (Oct 18, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> Congrats! That is real nice to break all PB's in a day. I don't think I have had ever.





Logiqx said:


> Ye-ha... I got a full set of PBs today!
> 
> This was despite an average of around 22s after 20 solves.
> 
> ...





MarcelP said:


> I filmed a few solves today. You clearly can see my style is so much different from Logiqx. Much more pauses, but slight higher TPS resulting in roughly same times.
> 
> 
> 
> ...





MarcelP said:


> Nice! Looking at your 4X4 solve I think I should be able to pull that off. But in real my solves are almost always over 2 minutes. Your 3X3 style is very similair to mine. Same speed, same pauses  Nice to see a green cross between the white and black crosses. CN people are just a bit cooler than the rest.


Yeah, i bet if you only did 4x4 for a week or two like you are 5x5, you could get sub 1:30 pretty quick. I really wish that I was color neutral, but I am not. When I restickered that cube a long time ago, I switched it to the Japenese color scheme for fun so you probably saw the blue on top and thought I was working on green. I really respect you for being CN though, I need to actually work on that sometime.


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## MarcelP (Oct 18, 2014)

Rocky0701 said:


> Yeah, i bet if you only did 4x4 for a week or two like you are 5x5, you could get sub 1:30 pretty quick. I really wish that I was color neutral, but I am not. When I restickered that cube a long time ago, I switched it to the Japenese color scheme for fun so you probably saw the blue on top and thought I was working on green. I really respect you for being CN though, I need to actually work on that sometime.



Yeah I saw the blue top color..  Next month I will start 4X4 serious practice.. First I want to be sub 4 on the 5X5.


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## Logiqx (Oct 18, 2014)

Rocky0701 said:


> Nice man! You are on the road to sub 20 too!



Hopefully... that's the general idea and I suspect another new target will appear once I get there!

This journey started off by wanting to solve in 3:00 then 2:00 then 1:30, 1:00, 0:45, 0:30, 0:25, 0:20.

Thanks for showing your videos. I remember my first video caused some nerve problems as well!


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## Logiqx (Oct 18, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> CN people are just a bit cooler than the rest.



Hehe. I'm kind of glad that I switched to CN when I was around 40 seconds but I find one small downside...

If I butcher an MU alg during PLL, I usually complete the solve using L6E but if I don't have white or yellow on top, I find it tricky. I use white/yellow top/bottom for methods with edge orientation steps, including Roux and other corners first methods.


----------



## MarcelP (Oct 18, 2014)

Logiqx said:


> Hehe. I'm kind of glad that I switched to CN when I was around 40 seconds but I find one small downside...
> 
> If I butcher an MU alg during PLL, I usually complete the solve using L6E but if I don't have white or yellow on top, I find it tricky. I use white/yellow top/bottom for methods with edge orientation steps, including Roux and other corners first methods.


Only downside I have is OLL recognition when white is on top on white cubes. Other than that I have no problems at all. I recently did an Ao50 none white/yellow. I got a low 20.xx average.

EDIT, all my untimed 3X3 solves are none white/yellow.. this trains me in harder crosses on other colors.


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## mark49152 (Oct 19, 2014)

Anyone having trouble with their AoChuang popping? Mine does it every 3-4 solves now, but I don't really want to tighten it because I like the feel.

I had a cool pop/lock last night where I somehow ended up with 10 centres on one side and 8 on another.

And another thing, after using the AoChuang for a while then switching to 4x4 I find myself wanting a mini AoSu! It should be smaller than the AoChuang!


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## MarcelP (Oct 19, 2014)

mark49152 said:


> Anyone having trouble with their AoChuang popping?


No, I have not had a single pop. But my turning is so slow that it will not pop easy. Mine is tight and slow..
Is it easy to put back together? I throw away cubes when they have popped and are hard to put back together. 


mark49152 said:


> And another thing, after using the AoChuang for a while then switching to 4x4 I find myself wanting a mini AoSu! It should be smaller than the AoChuang!



Yes, the Aosu feels huge when doing 5X5 for a while huh? But still I like the size just the way it is..


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## mark49152 (Oct 19, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> Is it easy to put back together? I throw away cubes when they have popped and are hard to put back together.


So far yes, I've just shoved the pieces back in no problem. 

Mine needs a service though - tension and lube - before it becomes unusable. I've only done about 100 solves on it.


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## MarcelP (Oct 19, 2014)

mark49152 said:


> So far yes, I've just shoved the pieces back in no problem.


Ok, maybe I will experiment with tensions then. I could be a lot looser I think. I have done way more than 100 solves I think.


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## mark49152 (Oct 19, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> Ok, maybe I will experiment with tensions then. I could be a lot looser I think. I have done way more than 100 solves I think.


Have you adjusted it before?


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## MarcelP (Oct 19, 2014)

mark49152 said:


> Have you adjusted it before?



No, out of the box tensions.


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## mark49152 (Oct 19, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> No, out of the box tensions.


Just curious, because mine was perfect out of the box. I wouldn't call it tight, and it's got looser.


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## Rocky0701 (Oct 19, 2014)

Hey, I would like to let you guys know that the Moyu 6x6 is now up for pre-order on thecubicle.us for $40.00!


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## MarcelP (Oct 19, 2014)

I never do 6X6  Takes just too long..


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## mark49152 (Oct 19, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> I never do 6X6  Takes just too long..


Same here. I've solved mine maybe 3-4 times. I don't feel like 6x6 really adds enough new over 4x4 and 5x5. If the AoShi comes down in price I might get one to see if it sparks my interest like the AoChuang did for 5x5.


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## MarcelP (Oct 19, 2014)

Yeah me too. When the price drops I might buy one.


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## MarcelP (Oct 19, 2014)

This evenings 5X5 results


Spoiler



5x5x5 cube 19-okt-2014 

Mean: 4:59.31
Average: 4:58.73
Best time: 4:18.12
Median: 4:56.07
Worst time: 5:50.94
Standard deviation: 23.94

Best average of 5: 4:42.92
12-16 - 4:42.76 (5:50.94) (4:18.12) 4:58.47 4:27.54

Best average of 12: 4:49.88
9-20 - 4:42.62 4:33.51 5:26.95 4:42.76 (5:50.94) (4:18.12) 4:58.47 4:27.54 4:54.87 4:56.54 4:39.91 4:55.60


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## Rocky0701 (Oct 19, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> This evenings 5X5 results
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> ...


Yeah, I understand. I haven't ever done 6x6 because I was waiting for the Moyu one to come out before I bought one, so I am pumped! Good job Marcel! Man, you must really be doing a lot of 5x5 this morning. I wish I could have enough motivation to crank out 5x5 solves for 2 1/2 hours.


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## MarcelP (Oct 19, 2014)

Rocky0701 said:


> ...to crank out 5x5 solves for 2 1/2 hours.



LOL yeah.. after no cubing whole weekend (playing with my kids, walk in forrest, in swimming pool etc..) I really felt te need to catch up..


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## Rocky0701 (Oct 19, 2014)

My dog is a pitbull too! Isn't it a shame that many people hate pitbulls because of their reputation for fighting? I think that if they are raised right, they are awesome dogs. I was off from school Thursday and Friday so I have broken so many PBs haha. All 3x3 except ao5, 4x4 ao5 and 12, 5x5 single ao5 12 and 50. Oh single, ao5 and 12. Lol, today has been a good cubing weekend


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## MarcelP (Oct 19, 2014)

My dog is the best. She is great with my kids. Very sweet natured. Enthousiastic like a true pit, nany dog as for watching out over my youngest kid. Most pitbull do not socialize very well with other dogs. My dog does not even react when attacked by aggressive dog. She knows she can over power most dogs but chooses to ignore and avoid.


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## Rocky0701 (Oct 19, 2014)

Aww  that is pretty much exactly how my dog is, except he is such a big wimp. Here is what he is doing right now


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## MarcelP (Oct 19, 2014)

Rocky0701 said:


> Aww  that is pretty much exactly how my dog is, except he is such a big wimp. Here is what he is doing right now
> 
> View attachment 4638
> View attachment 4638


Your picture is not showing up...

Edit, it does in my quote of your post  Lovely dog. I see it is a mix


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## Rocky0701 (Oct 19, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> You picture is not showing up...
> 
> Edit, it does in my quote of your post


Ok, it should now. Sorry.


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## moralsh (Oct 19, 2014)

Woah, lots of catch up to do on 5x5x5, I should have it If I'm really, really lucky by this friday and in time for my 2-week vacation, if I'm not lucky after holidays, with a further catch up to do  . I think I'll see what my times are with reduction and then maybe I'll try to learn hoya.

Main use should be speedsolve, but I'd love to get my first 5BLD success with it, and I'll definitely be trying.

keep it up guys


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## mark49152 (Oct 19, 2014)

New 5x5 ao12 PB: 4:01.32. So close to sub-4! Screwed up the last 3 solves otherwise would have been.


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## Rocky0701 (Oct 20, 2014)

mark49152 said:


> New 5x5 ao12 PB: 4:01.32. So close to sub-4! Screwed up the last 3 solves otherwise would have been.


Nice! You and Narcel are making awesome 5x5 progress.


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## MarcelP (Oct 20, 2014)

mark49152 said:


> New 5x5 ao12 PB: 4:01.32. So close to sub-4! Screwed up the last 3 solves otherwise would have been.



Wow, your average is faster than my PB single (4.05)  Nice going. I suspect to break the 4 minute barriere this week.


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## mark49152 (Oct 20, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> Wow, your average is faster than my PB single (4.05)  Nice going. I suspect to break the 4 minute barriere this week.


I've set targets based on Logiqx's study. So 4x4 is 5x my 3x3 target, and 5x5 is 2x my 4x4 target. Targets are 20, 100 and 200 seconds.

For 4x4 I'm already there with PB ao50 of 1:39.69. For 5x5 it feels like I'm way, way off 3:20 - although I've made rapid progress down 40 seconds in a week, 4:00 already feels really fast for me, like I'm at my 4x4 level, and I have no idea how I'll lop another 40 seconds off.

Oh and thanks Moyu for making 4x4 and 5x5 such fantastic fun!


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## sk8erman41 (Oct 20, 2014)

mark49152 said:


> So far yes, I've just shoved the pieces back in no problem.
> 
> Mine needs a service though - tension and lube - before it becomes unusable. I've only done about 100 solves on it.



I didn't really like mine at first, I did about 100 solves on it to break it in and then totally disassembled it, lubed, and restickered it. I had to play with the tensions a lot before I found something that I liked. I really believe that tighter is better. I liked it looser in the beginning, but once broken in and lubed, it moves much better tight than it did out of the box loose. It is a pain to do, but if you put some maintenance into it I guarantee it is worth it.


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## mark49152 (Oct 20, 2014)

sk8erman41 said:


> I liked it looser in the beginning, but once broken in and lubed, it moves much better tight than it did out of the box loose. It is a pain to do, but if you put some maintenance into it I guarantee it is worth it.


I tightened it a bit last night and it feels more stable. Could go tighter though. It's still loose enough that my fingers go inside the edges sometimes.


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## MarcelP (Oct 21, 2014)

mark49152 said:


> I tightened it a bit last night and it feels more stable. Could go tighter though. It's still loose enough that my fingers go inside the edges sometimes.



I loosened mine a bit. I still can not get my fingers between like you describe and still it does not pop (luckily). I like it just the way it is right now. I did 27 solves yesterday evening. Mean average was 4.51, best Ao12 4.38. It takes a few solves to get warmed up because the first 5 was Ao5 5.05  I really admire the people who can do it in about a minute


----------



## sneaklyfox (Oct 21, 2014)

Nice to see you guys improving on 5x5. I've been concentrating on 4x4 lately. I'll get myself an AoChuang when you guys catch up to me though I have no idea how fast (or slow) I am right now.


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## mark49152 (Oct 21, 2014)

Best ao12 now 3:46.21. I had my first proper AoChuang explosion today. It did its usual lockup thing where a center and an edge swap places, but I got a bit impatient with it because I was nearing the end of a fast solve, and pushed it a bit too hard to try to get it back into shape. The thing completely disintegrated all over the desk and floor. Took forever to reassemble it! That's my first big cube explosion - I know it sounds silly, but I didn't realise it had so many pieces


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## Rocky0701 (Oct 21, 2014)

mark49152 said:


> Best ao12 now 3:46.21. I had my first proper AoChuang explosion today. It did its usual lockup thing where a center and an edge swap places, but I got a bit impatient with it because I was nearing the end of a fast solve, and pushed it a bit too hard to try to get it back into shape. The thing completely disintegrated all over the desk and floor. Took forever to reassemble it! That's my first big cube explosion - I know it sounds silly, but I didn't realise it had so many pieces


Haha, explosions are not fun to put back together  you guys are improving rapidly, what's your goal avererage?


----------



## mark49152 (Oct 21, 2014)

Rocky0701 said:


> Haha, explosions are not fun to put back together  you guys are improving rapidly, what's your goal avererage?


3:20 - see a few posts above for explanation. Just did my first timed 6x6 solve: 17:12.47... LOL


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## Rocky0701 (Oct 22, 2014)

mark49152 said:


> 3:20 - see a few posts above for explanation. Just did my first timed 6x6 solve: 17:12.47... LOL


Oh yeah, because of logiqx's theory. Haha, Kevin Hays would be ashamed.


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## MarcelP (Oct 22, 2014)

mark49152 said:


> Best ao12 now 3:46.21. D



Jeezees Mark, Hold back will ya? You make me look so bad.. First Ao5 yesterday 5.23.. Crap!  After a another 10 solves or so mean average 4.52. pfew.... But no solves sub 4 untill now.. How do you do that man.. I wish you could make me a sample solve on Youtube.


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## MarcelP (Oct 22, 2014)

Anyone knows what the wingsswap at 12.55 in here is: http://youtu.be/uIoBzbDY_ZU

is it an alg or can you do that intuitive? I do not want learn any algs today 

EDIT, oh wait.. it's in the description.. an alg.. Bleh.


----------



## mark49152 (Oct 22, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> Anyone knows what the wingsswap at 12.55 in here is: http://youtu.be/uIoBzbDY_ZU
> 
> is it an alg or can you do that intuitive? I do not want learn any algs today


Yeah to swap the two wings in the checker case I put it in UF and use the 4x4 OLL parity alg but without turning the middle layer - so turning the left and right two layers only. Then at the end, do U2 and M' on just the middle slice. Try it on a solved cube to see what it does.

This is the only alg I use for edge pairing. Everything else is intuitive, and I either end up with all paired or with one checker, 50/50.

I'm not set up for doing videos but will try to write down an example solve tonight.


----------



## MarcelP (Oct 22, 2014)

I think my worst part is the last 4 edge pairing.. I will make a video of how I build centers and do the edge pairing and show it here. I think I make some mistakes somewhere.. I had some 6 minutes solves this morning.. Auch..


----------



## MarcelP (Oct 22, 2014)

Any tips on how I could improve my 5X5 solving would highly be appreciated 

[video=youtube_share;2gO5Z8NZHxU]http://youtu.be/2gO5Z8NZHxU[/video]


----------



## mark49152 (Oct 22, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> Any tips on how I could improve my 5X5 solving would highly be appreciated


Have a look at my Hoya variant a little further back in the thread. It's probably not as move-efficient as freeslice, but I think the reason I improved quickly is that I pause very little. Everything is easy to find, so minimal time wasted hunting around the cube.


----------



## MarcelP (Oct 22, 2014)

I tried Hoya5 for a while but got times averaging one minute slower than free slice.. I am really not a big fan of HoYa on 5X5. I will give it a few more tries..


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## mark49152 (Oct 22, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> I tried Hoya5 for a while but got times averaging one minute slower than free slice.. I am really not a big fan of HoYa on 5X5. I will give it a few more tries..


How were you doing it? Note that I don't think what I'm doing is vanilla Hoya5. There are a few tricks I added myself.


----------



## MarcelP (Oct 22, 2014)

mark49152 said:


> How were you doing it?



-Build four centers leaving yellow and one adjacent to yellow unsolved. 
-Solve all white edges and putting them in correct cross spot.
-Move last cross edge F L Hiding it
-Build last two centers
-restore last edge with L' F'
-Build an edge place and hide in back right
-Build an edge place and hide in back left
-Build last 6 edges with akward restraining (not trying to break centers and build edges)

This really does not work for me. I need freedom to make edges as with free slice  I tried an Ao5 today.. It was sup 7 minutes.. LOL


----------



## mark49152 (Oct 22, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> -Build four centers leaving yellow and one adjacent to yellow unsolved.
> -Solve all white edges and putting them in correct cross spot.
> -Move last cross edge F L Hiding it
> -Build last two centers
> ...


Have you tried AvG edge pairing?


----------



## MarcelP (Oct 22, 2014)

mark49152 said:


> Have you tried AvG edge pairing?



Yeah little bit. If you master that you will Be fast  I have asked Arnoud (AvG) to teach me at a competition some day


----------



## AvGalen (Oct 22, 2014)

Marcel, for centers you do almost everything with your left hand, especially the insertion after you made a line. Try doin r U2 r' instead of l F2 l'. You also rotate the entire cube all the time
For edgepairing with AvG it is not recommended to do lines first. You do AvG with all 2x12 pairs, starting with a "semi-pair". This way you don't waste moves like R U' R', you just do U'R'. I know that people got used to doing this for Yau/Hoya and that with very high TPS this doesn't matter a lot, but when you are slow you shouldn't waste so many moves.
If you built pairs the way you do it now (8 white/yello lines), you should do it so you only need 1 or 2 moves to realign the centers, not solve them again with (half) a dozen moves.
I would also highly recommend to have a good look at my written AvG tutorial. You will see that you should match a 'wing-edge' to a 'center-edge' because that way you only have to search for 12 center-edges (actually less in a real solve) instead of 24 wing-edges, resulting in much better lookahead. And if you have to do 2 parity solves you are doing it wrong because there was no parity 
https://www.speedsolving.com/forum/showthread.php?1447-Arnaud-s-5x5x5-Edge-Pairing-method-Examples

I am going to the competiton in Voorburg this weekend. We can talk and practice there


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## Rocky0701 (Oct 22, 2014)

The way that you did that first edge for the last four edges seemed pretty high and move count. How I would do it would be to do a Uw' then do the flipping algorithm (R U R' F R' F' R)which will flip the FR tredge over and then you can slice back with a Uw and it that will be solved. Set up that same edge case again and try that. You can use that flipping algorithm for all of edge pairing because it is really fast to flip. Your solves look pretty good, but the last four edges seem pretty inefficient to me. Some good videos to watch would be CrazyBadCuber's video called advanced edge pairing part two. He will explain how to use the flipping algorithm to solve the last four edges. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=npJIKUDAL4U) Also, I learned some great tricks from Kevin Hays' 5x5 tips and tricks video, and his 5x5 example solves video. I hope those videos help!


----------



## MarcelP (Oct 23, 2014)

AvGalen said:


> If you built pairs the way you do it now (8 white/yello lines), you should do it so you only need 1 or 2 moves to realign the centers, not solve them again with (half) a dozen moves.



Yeah, I have seen this in sample solves of Feliks and Hays. But I use total freedom of doing U2 R2 L2 and D2 while edgeparing. instead of doing flipping algs where needed. I am a slow turner and the flipping alg cost me more time then aligning centers again in the end. I will try to do it the correct way for a while and see how it turns out.



AvGalen said:


> I am going to the competiton in Voorburg this weekend. We can talk and practice there



Yeah! I could use some AvG lessons on sunday.  5X5 will be my main event.. LOL I will read your written tutorial first.



Rocky0701 said:


> Some good videos to watch would be CrazyBadCuber's video called advanced edge pairing part two. He will explain how to use the flipping algorithm to solve the last four edges. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=npJIKUDAL4U) Also, I learned some great tricks from Kevin Hays' 5x5 tips and tricks video, and his 5x5 example solves video. I hope those videos help!



I have not watched CBC's advanced edge pairing. I will now. I love his video's. Thanks! I did see Hays' video.. That helped me a lot so far.


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## mark49152 (Oct 23, 2014)

New PBs: ao12 = 3:39.55, single = 3:19.00.

Marcel, I put together a couple of example solves. I don't think my approach is very move efficient, but I do think it makes it easy to find pieces and look ahead. Take a look and maybe it will help.


```
[B][U]EXAMPLE 1[/U][/B]

Scramble with yellow top, green front (scramble stolen from AvG's guide, thanks AvG!)

Rw U Rw' U Rw U2 Rw'
F' U
Lw' U2 Lw U Lw' U Lw
L2 R2 F2 B2

Rw U Rw' U Rw U2 Rw'
F' U
Lw' U2 Lw U Lw' U Lw
L R' F2 D' B2

Rw U Rw' U Rw U2 Rw'
F' U
Lw' U2 Lw U Lw' U Lw

[U]SOLUTION[/U]

// Midge cross on white, CFOP style
R2 U' R' F B' D B

// Insert wings Hoya-style to complete cross.  
// Parentheses enclose inserts/triggers, which look long but are fast.
// Lookahead for white wings is easy.
// Don't bother trying to solve tredges one at a time, just solve the first
// wing you see and adjust D face as necessary, to avoid pauses.

U' (Lw' U2 Lw U' Lw' U Lw)    // left RW 
U (Rw U2 Rw' U Rw U' Rw')     // right RW
D Lw' U Lw                    // left BW
D (Rw U Rw' U Rw U' Rw')      // right OW
D U2 Rw U' Rw'                // right GW
D' (R' F R F') U' Lw' U Lw    // left OW
D Lw' U2 Lw                   // left GW
D2 U' (Rw U Rw' U Rw U' Rw')  // right BW

// Protect cross and fill back slots.
// With the back slots filled, lookahead for edge pairing is so much easier.
// We solve one extra tredge Hoya-style to help with this.
// Just solve the wings for whatever midge the F' R' leaves in FD.

F' R'                     // hide BW tredge
Rw U2 Rw' U Rw U' Rw'     // RG midge is in FD so solve RG tredge
F L 			  // hide RG tredge

// At this point the back edges and the three out-of-sight down edges are solved, so no need
// to rotate the cube to search for pieces.

// Last two centers
F' Lw F Lw' F' Lw F' Lw'

// Edge pairing AvG-style, sort of.
// Looking ahead for midges is much easier because you have half the number 
// of pieces to scan.  Also you can't screw up like you can when you're looking for
// wings but choose the wrong one!
// Note that 3Dw/3Dw' means turn the bottom 3 layers (don't know proper notation for this)

F' U2 F 3Dw'   // RY semi-pair
F U2 F' 3Dw    // RB semi
U R U' R' 3Dw' // YG semi
F U' F' 3Dw    // OB tredge
F              // put a solved tredge in FD as soon as possible
L' U L 3Dw     // GO semi
R U R' 3Dw2    // BY semi
L' U L 3Dw     // OG tredge
R U2 R' Dw'    // YO tredge
F U F' Dw      // GY tredge
U R U' R' Dw'  // RB tredge
L' U L Dw      // last two tredges

// At this point, if parity occurred there would be a single checkered tredge in FL or FR.
// Fix using F/F' to put the checker in UF then OLL parity alg before restoring cross.

// Restore cross
L' R F D2
```


```
[B][U]EXAMPLE 2[/U][/B]

Scramble with yellow top, green front, again.

Rw U Rw' U Rw U2 Rw'
F' U
Lw' U2 Lw U Lw' U Lw
F2 L2 R2 B2 

Rw U Rw' U Rw U2 Rw'
F' U
Lw' U2 Lw U Lw' U Lw
F2 D B2 L R2 

Rw U Rw' U Rw U2 Rw'
F' U
Lw' U2 Lw U Lw' U Lw

[U]SOLUTION[/U]

// Midge cross on white
F L R' U2 F2

// Cross wings
D Lw' U2 Lw                     // left BW wing
U' (Rw U Rw' U Rw U' Rw')       // right BW
D (Lw' U2 Lw U' Lw' U Lw)       // left OW
D Lw' U2 Lw                     // left GW
(Rw U2 Rw' U Rw U' Rw')         // right GW 
D U Lw' U2 Lw                   // left RW
R' U R (Rw U2 Rw' U Rw U' Rw')  // right RW
D2 (Rw U2 Rw' U Rw U' Rw')      // right OW

// Hide OW tredge
F' R' 

// OG tredge and fill back slots
Rw U2 Rw'
L U' L' (Lw' U2 Lw U' Lw' U Lw)
F L

// Last two centers (probably very inefficient)
F' Lw' U Lw U2 Rw U Rw' F2 Rw' F2 Rw F' Rw' F2 Rw

// Edge pairing
U R U' R' 3Dw'           // OY semi
L' U' L 3Dw              // RY semi
R U R' 3Dw'              // GR semi
F U' F' 3DW              // OY tredge
F                        // Fill FD
L' U L 3DW               // BR semi
U' F' U F 3DW'           // GR tredge
L' U L 3DW               // GY semi
(R U R' F R' F' R) 3DW'  // Flip and slice back for GY tredge
R U' R' F U' F' 3DW      // BR tredge
R U' R' 3DW'             // BO semi
(R U R' F R' F' R) Dw    // BY semi
(R U R' F R' F' R) Dw'   // Flip and slice back for last two tredges

// Restore cross
L' R F D
```


----------



## MarcelP (Oct 24, 2014)

mark49152 said:


> New PBs: ao12 = 3:39.55, single = 3:19.00.
> 
> Marcel, I put together a couple of example solves. I don't think my approach is very move efficient, but I do think it makes it easy to find pieces and look ahead. Take a look and maybe it will help.



That is awesome!! I will go over them tonight after work.

Btw, new PB TPS wise. My entry nr 5 on Rubikscube in this weekly's competition:


Spoiler:  Reconstruct



*12.51* L B R2 U L F' L B' R' F' B2 R' D2 F2 R F2 R B2 R' D2 L2

x2 y // inspection, yellow on U red on F
L' B L // part cross (3)
U R U' R' // preserve pair (7)
y U' L F2 L' // X-cross (12)
U' R U' R' U' L U' L' // F2L 2 (20)
U R' U2 R U' F' U F // F2L 3 (28)
U R' U' R // F2L 4 (32)
U2 f R U R2 U' R' U R2 U' R' f' // OLL (44)
U2 R U R' U' R' F R2 U' R' U' R U R' F' // PLL (59)

4.71 TPS!! What?



My 12.01 PB is with skip, so this solve is pretty damn special


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## mark49152 (Oct 24, 2014)

You got a 12.xx solve?! Oh man! Awesome progress. That must have felt great


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## MarcelP (Oct 24, 2014)

mark49152 said:


> You got a 12.xx solve?! Oh man! Awesome progress. That must have felt great



Thanks yeah.. Feel like a million bucks. I did your first sample solves a few times. That is freaking awesome. You are using so much less moves than me. Really. I do the hoya part almost the same. I never thought of the midget cross CFOP style. Cool. The AvG part is still too dificult to actually perform for me. I did one solve and got a 5.00.xx That is pretty cool since I average slight better on free slice. I am not going to change my method this weekend but I think I should give it a try after this weekend. Btw, I got my first sub 4 today 3.56.xx


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## mark49152 (Oct 24, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> The AvG part is still too dificult to actually perform for me. I did one solve and got a 5.00.xx That is pretty cool since I average slight better on free slice.


Great, glad it helped. Getting used to a new approach takes a while so give it time. Lookahead is so much easier when you're only looking for midges, and they are never hidden round the back either. You'll be faster than me in no time .


----------



## PJKCuber (Oct 24, 2014)

Wow, you guys motivate me to buy a 5x5


----------



## sneaklyfox (Oct 25, 2014)

I finally FINALLY made another cube order. (I haven't ordered any cubes since August 2013!) I didn't get the AoChuang though because I'm not getting into 5x5 yet. By the time I do, maybe something better will be out. I got a Moyu pyraminx and Moyu AoLong v2. Right now I'm still using my Weilong v1 which I love, but from everything I've heard, I should like the AoLong even more. But mostly I'm just excited about the pyraminx.


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## Artic (Oct 25, 2014)

sneaklyfox said:


> I finally FINALLY made another cube order. (I haven't ordered any cubes since August 2013!) I didn't get the AoChuang though because I'm not getting into 5x5 yet. By the time I do, maybe something better will be out. I got a Moyu pyraminx and Moyu AoLong v2. Right now I'm still using my Weilong v1 which I love, but from everything I've heard, I should like the AoLong even more. But mostly I'm just excited about the pyraminx.



I honestly can't stand the Aolong. It feels soo "flaky" to me. I know there are a few other people that feel like I do, and the cube just doesn't cut it for me. Granted, its a decent cube. But I like something more sturdy and precise. The Aolong catches constantly and it really drives me nuts.


----------



## sneaklyfox (Oct 25, 2014)

Artic said:


> I honestly can't stand the Aolong. It feels soo "flaky" to me. I know there are a few other people that feel like I do, and the cube just doesn't cut it for me. Granted, its a decent cube. But I like something more sturdy and precise. The Aolong catches constantly and it really drives me nuts.



Hey... you trying to dampen my spirits?  I'll find out for myself. What's your main? And Marcel, do you even have a main right now or are you just not doing much 3x3 these days?


----------



## Rocky0701 (Oct 25, 2014)

Artic said:


> I honestly can't stand the Aolong. It feels soo "flaky" to me. I know there are a few other people that feel like I do, and the cube just doesn't cut it for me. Granted, its a decent cube. But I like something more sturdy and precise. The Aolong catches constantly and it really drives me nuts.


I feel the same, it's not that the AoLong is uncontrollable for me, I just don't like how it doesn't feel accurate and cubic. Hands down awesome cube though, you will like it sneaklyfox since you are much faster than I am.


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## mark49152 (Oct 25, 2014)

sneaklyfox said:


> I finally FINALLY made another cube order. (I haven't ordered any cubes since August 2013!) I didn't get the AoChuang though because I'm not getting into 5x5 yet. By the time I do, maybe something better will be out. I got a Moyu pyraminx and Moyu AoLong v2. Right now I'm still using my Weilong v1 which I love, but from everything I've heard, I should like the AoLong even more. But mostly I'm just excited about the pyraminx.


Awesome, it's exciting getting new cubes! Maybe you should join the 5x5 club before we all move to 6x6 when the AoShi comes out though


----------



## IRNjuggle28 (Oct 25, 2014)

mark49152 said:


> Awesome, it's exciting getting new cubes! Maybe you should join the 5x5 club before we all move to 6x6 when the AoShi comes out though


Not gonna happen, for me at least.  I really don't like the Aochuang at all, so I assume I won't like the Aochi. My unmodded Shengshou is much better than it. I don't quite know how, since I've tried a couple other unmodded Shengshous and both of them are terrible compared to mine. I guess the ~3000 solves made it really nice.


----------



## MarcelP (Oct 25, 2014)

sneaklyfox said:


> Hey... you trying to dampen my spirits?  I'll find out for myself. What's your main? And Marcel, do you even have a main right now or are you just not doing much 3x3 these days?



I haven't practiced 3x3 for a month but my times are still allright. My AoLong V2 is the best cube there is. It is awesome. Faster than Weilong but way more controllable. Too bad you did not order the aochuang. I think it is great. At least much better than my unmodded ss.


----------



## sneaklyfox (Oct 25, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> I haven't practiced 3x3 for a month but my times are still allright. My AoLong V2 is the best cube there is. It is awesome. Faster than Weilong but way more controllable. Too bad you did not order the aochuang. I think it is great. At least much better than my unmodded ss.



Well, my WeiLong is really nice and fast. I relubed and retensioned it some time back and it's still smooth and speedy. Great feeling. I am really curious about the AoLong and can't wait to get my hands on it now. I'll be letting you know when I get it and how I like it. Anyway, I remember when I first got the WeiLong I didn't really like it. I actually preferred the ShuangRen at the time. I'm sure the AoChuang is really good too and better than my SS, but since I don't really do 5x5 right now I felt like it would be a waste of money. By the time I get into 5x5 seriously (who knows when) there would be an AoChuang v2 or something like that... so why bother getting a cube that will be outdated before I even use it? For 4x4 I am just using my WeiSu. I guess I could have gotten an AoSu, but I have loads to improve on 4x4 before I feel I deserve a new cube. 3x3 is still my favourite so I felt that getting the AoLong was overdue. I have so many 3x3 cubes now.


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## mark49152 (Oct 25, 2014)

sneaklyfox said:


> For 4x4 I am just using my WeiSu. I guess I could have gotten an AoSu, but I have loads to improve on 4x4 before I feel I deserve a new cube.


WeiSu is still a great cube. I do at least half my 4x4 practice on WeiSu and in some ways I prefer it to my AoSu. It took a long time to break in, and it's a little heavier and slower, but it's very smooth and controllable, and less locky than my AoSu.


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## MarcelP (Oct 26, 2014)

mark49152 said:


> Wbut it's very smooth and controllable, and less locky than my AoSu.



I think you have your AoSu too loose. When tight it never locks. I also like my Weisus. I just did a few SS 4X4 solves.. Oh man... now that is locky.. LOL


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## Rocky0701 (Oct 26, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> I think you have your AoSu too loose. When tight it never locks. I also like my Weisus. I just did a few SS 4X4 solves.. Oh man... now that is locky.. LOL


I agree, I never have lockups on mine. Maybe it's that your tensions are uneven.


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## mark49152 (Oct 26, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> I think you have your AoSu too loose. When tight it never locks. I also like my Weisus. I just did a few SS 4X4 solves.. Oh man... now that is locky.. LOL


I should say catchy, not locky. I don't get lockups. It's pretty tight, tighter than my WeiSu. It feels like because it turns faster than the WeiSu, I get a little sloppier and catch more on corner cuts or with layers misaligned. I could tighten it, but the faster turning is really the only way it feels different to the WeiSu anyway, so I don't want to lose that. It's still a great cube.


----------



## MarcelP (Oct 26, 2014)

I had a blast at the Dutch Open today. Broke 4X4 Average PB with about 20 secs resulting in a 1.54 and had my first offical 5X5. It was a nice 4.18. Since cut-off was 3 minutes I could do only one more solve. I had my first pop. It was an explotion.. Bleh.. it took me half an hour to put back together.  Never mind I was happy with the 4.18 and that was all I came for. I got some great tips from AvG and Reinier Schippers and AntoinieFazFan. Next time on a 5X5 comp I suspect to do better  5X5 is great fun! My Rubikscube was not great, but with an 23 average first round and 22 second round I was pretty steady. I feel less nervous. I just did not solve that good. All solves the F2L was really good, All solves F2L in about 12 secs.. But doing wrong OLLs and locking in PLLs messed every thing up. I had a 19 and a 20 second solve with a +2.. just because I made a mistake doing AUF. Oh well... no problem.. next time will be better


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## mark49152 (Oct 26, 2014)

Awesome Marcel! Great that you got a 4:18 official 5x5 and a sub-2 in 4x4. 

5x5 has got me interested in 6x6 now, but I'm still around 15 minutes because my SS is so stiff. Tried to loosen it and it exploded everywhere, and I can't figure out how to get it back together, so I might hang on for an AoShi!


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## MarcelP (Oct 26, 2014)

mark49152 said:


> Awesome Marcel! Great that you got a 4:18 official 5x5 and a sub-2 in 4x4.
> 
> 5x5 has got me interested in 6x6 now, but I'm still around 15 minutes because my SS is so stiff. Tried to loosen it and it exploded everywhere, and I can't figure out how to get it back together, so I might hang on for an AoShi!



Thanks! My first 6X6 was a pillow shaped Eastssheen. It exploded on me and I tried it to put back together for an hour and then threw it out  I have a SS but solved only a few times to avoid that problem


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## mark49152 (Oct 26, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> Thanks! My first 6X6 was a pillow shaped Eastssheen. It exploded on me and I tried it to put back together for an hour and then threw it out  I have a SS but solved only a few times to avoid that problem


Yeah the funny thing is, I had tensioned, lubed it and solved it a bit, and was just thinking to myself "hey this cube is starting to feel so much nicer", when kaboom, pieces flew everywhere. So if I do get it back together, I guess I'll have to tighten it up again.


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## MarcelP (Oct 26, 2014)

Well after today I definatly am going to tension the AoChuang much tighter. Many people have used it today at the comp and it feels so much faster.. LOL the fast people have broken it in for me I guess. It feels so nice but I am so insecure about pops now..


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## sneaklyfox (Oct 26, 2014)

Nice times for your comp. I am jealous you have gone to all these comps. I still have only gone to one...


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## MarcelP (Oct 26, 2014)

sneaklyfox said:


> Nice times for your comp. I am jealous you have gone to all these comps. I still have only gone to one...



Yeah, I am really happy my wife allows me to go to a comp every now and then  Next month I will do my first offical 3BLD..  Since I have only 2 successes ever I highly doubt I will get an official one. I will try to focus for that


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## sk8erman41 (Oct 27, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> Yeah, I am really happy my wife allows me to go to a comp every now and then  Next month I will do my first offical 3BLD..  Since I have only 2 successes ever I highly doubt I will get an official one. I will try to focus for that



Nice job on the results. What do you use for BLD? OP/OP? OP/M2? I have been getting into it a lot more recently and really like M2. Took me awhile to get the hang of it, but once I got it down I like it much better


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## MarcelP (Oct 27, 2014)

sk8erman41 said:


> Nice job on the results. What do you use for BLD? OP/OP? OP/M2? I have been getting into it a lot more recently and really like M2. Took me awhile to get the hang of it, but once I got it down I like it much better



OP/OP is what try to do


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## Schmidt (Oct 28, 2014)

Spoiler: Lots of silver medals



https://www.dropbox.com/s/qpqgv0rvvhy4xtk/2014-10-28%2020.56.52.png?dl=0


....so far.
i saw you _tried_ to do a 3BLD last week, so I thought I would get a successful solve before you did 


Spoiler: it was a tough one....



I don't think this info will help anyone, but if you think it is cheating then


Spoiler: don't look here until you have solved it yourself 



MO EI buffer FU VF buffer CW C buffer KL (piece flipped) last piece solved
Parity
(I need to change my corner system. I'm just going "this color goes here and then this goes here")
Cant remember the first one, but the it was green, buffer, twisting three pieces, then swapping the last two pieces and done! Memo in 5:02.xx, solve in 1:47.xx


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## MarcelP (Oct 29, 2014)

Yeah, I started practice 3BLD again. It should get easier.. But it doesn't.. Your 3x3 times are getting better  good stuff!


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## mark49152 (Oct 29, 2014)

sk8erman41 said:


> Nice job on the results. What do you use for BLD? OP/OP? OP/M2? I have been getting into it a lot more recently and really like M2. Took me awhile to get the hang of it, but once I got it down I like it much better


Yeah I found M2 tricky at first but it's so much more efficient than OP edges, once you get the hang of it. I still screw up those M edges sometimes though.


----------



## sneaklyfox (Oct 30, 2014)

Yeah, I don't remember my M edge algs anymore, though it shouldn't be hard to learn again. I haven't done BLD in so long...


----------



## sk8erman41 (Oct 30, 2014)

mark49152 said:


> Yeah I found M2 tricky at first but it's so much more efficient than OP edges, once you get the hang of it. I still screw up those M edges sometimes though.





sneaklyfox said:


> Yeah, I don't remember my M edge algs anymore, though it shouldn't be hard to learn again. I haven't done BLD in so long...


Yeah FU and BD are really the only tough ones, the others are either short or fairly intuitive if you break them down. Then it's the fact that you have to switch the odd targets that threw me at first but it wasn't until I got M2 down that I really started to enjoy BLD. The biggest aspect that I am struggling with now is my corner memo. I use audio for edges and have gotten that down pretty well, but am using letter pair sentence memo for corners and I don't have a set list yet and it's tough to come up with my letter pair on the fly sometimes and it slows me way down. Sneakly- when you were practicing and doing the race to sub-? With memo how were you doing it again and what was your best result?


----------



## sneaklyfox (Oct 31, 2014)

sk8erman41 said:


> Sneakly- when you were practicing and doing the race to sub-? With memo how were you doing it again and what was your best result?



I also did audio edges and I think I did letter pair corners? I think I did this:
Memo: 1) edges 2) corners
Execution: 1) edges 2) corners
But honestly, I can't quite remember haha. I might have memorized corners first. When I stopped practicing, I think I hadn't completely settled on a memo method for corners. I considered PVO (Person Verb Object) memo too which I used sometimes.

You'll have to check the race thread that you mention. I can't even remember. BLD is far from my mind though I suspect that if I were going to enter competition again I would aim to get a success at some point. Getting my first success was exciting but somehow BLD just doesn't hold enough interest for me to be motivated enough to practice it much. My PB is only sub-4. Not much practice.


----------



## sneaklyfox (Oct 31, 2014)

Woohoo! Cubes came already. Actually, they arrived a few days ago but we never checked our mail and I didn't expect they would come so fast.

Moyu AoLong: Feels dry. Will have to play with it awhile, tension, lube, maybe resticker before I know if it will replace my WeiLong v1.

Moyu Pyraminx: OH. MY. GOODNESS. New main. Moyu has done it again.


----------



## MarcelP (Oct 31, 2014)

sneaklyfox said:


> Moyu Pyraminx: OH. MY. GOODNESS. New main. Moyu has done it again.



Oh wow.. mine has not even left China.. I ordered way before you. That's not fair


----------



## sneaklyfox (Nov 1, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> Oh wow.. mine has not even left China.. I ordered way before you. That's not fair



That's why TheCubicle is awesome!


----------



## mark49152 (Nov 1, 2014)

Finally! My first sub-1:30 ao12 on 4x4 - 1:29.97. Only just, but it counts


----------



## sneaklyfox (Nov 2, 2014)

mark49152 said:


> Finally! My first sub-1:30 ao12 on 4x4 - 1:29.97. Only just, but it counts



Sure it counts! For a time, my sub-10 single PB was 9.99.


----------



## MarcelP (Nov 2, 2014)

mark49152 said:


> Finally! My first sub-1:30 ao12 on 4x4 - 1:29.97. Only just, but it counts



Awesome! Also HoYa?


----------



## Schmidt (Nov 2, 2014)

Spoiler: My first sub90 from the 4x4 race



Schmidt : sub 1:30
*1:29.97* (σ = 5.12)
1:28.86, (3:07.11), 1:25.90, 1:24.47, 1:35.61, 1:31.06, 1:24.21, 1:28.80, 1:38.13, 1:26.30, (1:23.22), 1:36.31

3:07 was a minor pop during OLL parity (I couldn't remember where I had come to in the alg.)

1:23 was a forced OLL "skip" (B' R' alg. R B) with a PLL skip as well.
overall this was better than expected, the last timed ao12 from way back was barely sub 2:00


----------



## mark49152 (Nov 2, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> Awesome! Also HoYa?


Hoya, 3-2-3 edges, and 4LLL with parity fixes integral to the OELL and EPLL algs.



Schmidt said:


> My first sub90 from the 4x4 race


Now that counts more, when it's a race and a pure ao12 . Mine was best ao12 from a session of 30, overall average 1:33.80.


----------



## MarcelP (Nov 2, 2014)

mark49152 said:


> and 4LLL with parity fixes integral to the OELL and EPLL algs.



Where did you learn that? I want to learn that too


----------



## mark49152 (Nov 2, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> Where did you learn that? I want to learn that too


See here for a list of EPLLs - I think the OLL is a few posts later.

https://www.speedsolving.com/forum/...4x4-Discussion&p=901115&viewfull=1#post901115


----------



## Rocky0701 (Nov 2, 2014)

I went to my first comp. yesterday!  http://cubecomps.com/live.php?cid=688&compid=42 I got very lucky on 3x3, but kinda failed on 2x2 and did ok on pyraminx, The third 2x2 solve was actually 4.38, but I guess they put it in wrong, oh well. I met some really awesome people and had a lot of fun.


sneaklyfox said:


> Woohoo! Cubes came already. Actually, they arrived a few days ago but we never checked our mail and I didn't expect they would come so fast.
> 
> Moyu AoLong: Feels dry. Will have to play with it awhile, tension, lube, maybe resticker before I know if it will replace my WeiLong v1.
> 
> Moyu Pyraminx: OH. MY. GOODNESS. New main. Moyu has done it again.


A guy had one yesterday and I tried it, it was ridiculously fast. I also tried the AoShi, it was really good too. A different guy had a SS 10x10 that a ton of people were taking turns solving. It shocked me how smooth it was, I would never want one though. It took me 10+ minutes to solve half a center 



Schmidt said:


> Spoiler: My first sub90 from the 4x4 race
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Good job! You have been a second away from that for like 10 round haha, it's pretty weird that you and Mark got the same exact average.


----------



## MarcelP (Nov 2, 2014)

Rocky0701 said:


> I went to my first comp. yesterday!  http://cubecomps.com/live.php?cid=688&compid=42 I got very lucky on 3x3, .



Wow! sub 17 avg.. Awesome stuff. You really made good progress.. And you did not get into the next round?


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## Rocky0701 (Nov 2, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> Wow! sub 17 avg.. Awesome stuff. You really made good progress.. And you did not get into the next round?


Thanks! I didn't think I would even get sub 19, but the scrambles were really good. I did make it to the next round, but I had to leave early to go to a marching band competition. I wish I could've done 4x4 too, but they had it towards the end. I might post some of the video that I got.


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## MarcelP (Nov 2, 2014)

Rocky0701 said:


> Thanks! I didn't think I would even get sub 19, but the scrambles were really good. I did make it to the next round, but I had to leave early to go to a marching band competition. I wish I could've done 4x4 too, but they had it towards the end. I might post some of the video that I got.



Hey your a bandcamp neird? LOL.. Me too... well I was when I was a kid. Played drums in the marching band for about 10 years.


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## Rocky0701 (Nov 2, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> Hey your a bandcamp neird? LOL.. Me too... well I was when I was a kid. Played drums in the marching band for about 10 years.


Haha yup! Wow you marched for 10 years? I have played trombone for 5 years, but this is my first year marching. Do you still drum every once in a while? If so you should post a video


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## mark49152 (Nov 2, 2014)

4x4 PB carnage tonight. Ao30 = 1:29.90, ao12 = 1:26.34, ao5 = 1:21.02, single = 1:14.90. Man I love cubing


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## sneaklyfox (Nov 3, 2014)

mark49152 said:


> Man I love cubing



Me too. Playing with my Moyu Pyraminx.


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## Rocky0701 (Nov 3, 2014)

sneaklyfox said:


> Woohoo! Cubes came already. Actually, they arrived a few days ago but we never checked our mail and I didn't expect they would come so fast.
> 
> Moyu AoLong: Feels dry. Will have to play with it awhile, tension, lube, maybe resticker before I know if it will replace my WeiLong v1.
> 
> Moyu Pyraminx: OH. MY. GOODNESS. New main. Moyu has done it again.





Schmidt said:


> Spoiler: My first sub90 from the 4x4 race
> 
> 
> 
> ...





mark49152 said:


> 4x4 PB carnage tonight. Ao30 = 1:29.90, ao12 = 1:26.34, ao5 = 1:21.02, single = 1:14.90. Man I love cubing


Wow, awesome! You should be fully sub 1:30 in no time. Any new goals?


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## mark49152 (Nov 3, 2014)

Rocky0701 said:


> Wow, awesome! You should be fully sub 1:30 in no time. Any new goals?


Not really, for 4x4. I'm happy just to break PBs. I'm really enjoying bigger cubes and can't wait for my AoShi to arrive!


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## Logiqx (Nov 3, 2014)

mark49152 said:


> 4x4 PB carnage tonight. Ao30 = 1:29.90, ao12 = 1:26.34, ao5 = 1:21.02, single = 1:14.90. Man I love cubing



Congrats. You're making great progress on the 4x4x4... well beyond your 1:40 target.


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## mark49152 (Nov 3, 2014)

Logiqx said:


> Congrats. You're making great progress on the 4x4x4... well beyond your 1:40 target.


Thanks. I concluded that 4.5x is a better matched target than 5x, relative to 3x3 times. However, the equivalent target on 5x5 would be 3 minutes and it feels like I'm miles away from that! Then 6 mins on 6x6...


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## MarcelP (Nov 3, 2014)

mark49152 said:


> I'm really enjoying bigger cubes and can't wait for my AoShi to arrive!



Well Feliks said he liked his ShengShou better. So although I do not solve 6X6 and I have never seen an AoShi I am going to say I prefer my SS over the AoShi. LOL


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## MarcelP (Nov 3, 2014)

This weekend I did an Ao25 on 3X3 and got a disgusting 22.xx.. It is time for me to stop doing all the funny business like 5X5 and 3BLD and start practicing 3X3 again..  All the side events are fun but Rubiks cube is only thing that counts for me


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## mark49152 (Nov 3, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> This weekend I did an Ao25 on 3X3 and got a disgusting 22.xx.. It is time for me to stop doing all the funny business like 5X5 and 3BLD and start practicing 3X3 again..  All the side events are fun but Rubiks cube is only thing that counts for me


Do you think practising other cubes helps 3x3? People say it does, but in my experience, I'm slower when I initially go back to 3x3. Any benefit takes a while to materialise.


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## MarcelP (Nov 4, 2014)

mark49152 said:


> Do you think practising other cubes helps 3x3? People say it does, but in my experience, I'm slower when I initially go back to 3x3. Any benefit takes a while to materialise.



It killed my speed and ruiend my lookahead  I was quite comfertable sub 20 on every Ao12 I did a month ago. Now in a Ao12 I am glad to find a few sub 20 solves.. All this 5X5 has really made me slower on 3X3. I suspect it will return soon with some good practice..


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## mark49152 (Nov 4, 2014)

Yesterday I was mostly doing 5x5. First sub-3:30 ao12 - 3:26.38 - and came very close to a first sub-3 single - 3:03.32...!

Today I might do some 3x3 and see how bad I now am...


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## sk8erman41 (Nov 4, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> It killed my speed and ruiend my lookahead  I was quite comfertable sub 20 on every Ao12 I did a month ago. Now in a Ao12 I am glad to find a few sub 20 solves.. All this 5X5 has really made me slower on 3X3. I suspect it will return soon with some good practice..



It'll come back really quickly. I think that the problem with doing the bigger cubes is that you DON'T look ahead yet on them. I know that's the case for me (which is why I am so slow on them). I feel like my 4x4 times are decent compared to 3x3 but 5x5 is way slow. With more and more practice I am sure that you would start focusing less on what you are doing and start focusing on what comes next like on 3x3. I think that once you get that down practicing big cubes will actually help the 3x3 look ahead immensely because you are stretching the look ahead and have more to watch, thus when you go back to 3x3 it becomes a lot easier. I have seen this on Megaminx when I was practicing that awhile back. Just mix in some 3x3 along with the other events to keep it fresh but don't give up on them if you are having fun, they will all improve


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## MarcelP (Nov 4, 2014)

mark49152 said:


> Today I might do some 3x3 and see how bad I now am...



Ok, now don't go *'Oh well look at that, I am sub 16'* on me.. LOL 




sk8erman41 said:


> Just mix in some 3x3 along with the other events to keep it fresh but don't give up on them if you are having fun, they will all improve



Yeah, I will keep doing everything a bit, but 3X3 will be main focus for a while..


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## mark49152 (Nov 4, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> Ok, now don't go *'Oh well look at that, I am sub 16'* on me.. LOL .


Well... LOL... I haven't done full 3x3 sessions for a while, but I have done some F2L sessions and I do believe my lookahead has been improved by bigger cube practice.

My average for pairs only has come down from mid-9s to high-8s, and generally feels more composed.

My theory is as follows. On big cubes, I do rely more on lookahead because I can't turn as fast. My pairs average on 4x4 is around 11 which is not that much slower than on 3x3, because although I turn slower, I pause less. Lookahead is also exercised in other steps like edges. All this does improve lookahead on 3x3.

However, after a few days on bigger cubes, I get used to turning less fast, and that does impact on 3x3 when I first go back to it. I try to start with a few TPS-spamming type things like timed PLL attacks to get back up to speed.

Finally, at our level in 3x3, I think the reason it seems a hard barrier is that we are at the point where any delay kills a solve - whether it's failed lookahead, slow recognition, lockups or fumbles, etc. We can no longer rely on just getting faster - we have to avoid things that lose us time too, even a fraction of a second. That's more difficult. On bigger cubes, that's less the case, as there's more time to recover from small delays. On bigger cubes I know I hesitate a little more to make sure I don't screw things up, and that habit harms 3x3.


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## MarcelP (Nov 4, 2014)

mark49152 said:


> On bigger cubes I know I hesitate a little more to make sure I don't screw things up, and that habit harms 3x3.



Yeah I know what you mean.. Btw, a little while ago on 3X3 I could get good times without really looking ahead. Just by doing every step as fast as I can with pauses in between to find out what to do next. I did get a few sub 20 Ao12's this way.. But, slowing down and looking ahead makes it easier to get good averages.. Still I think, I need some kind of more speed in turning. I have judged many young people last competition (also a 6 sec on 3X3 and a 29 solve on 4X4 and a 1.03 on 5X5 from Mats  ) and I have seen that most youngsters have no lookahead at all but just rely on fast turning. I have seen them do cross on top, turn x2, search for 1ste pair and still have cross + 1 in 2 - 3 secs... It is just so depressing to see...LOL..


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## mark49152 (Nov 4, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> I have seen that most youngsters have no lookahead at all but just rely on fast turning. I have seen them do cross on top, turn x2, search for 1ste pair and still have cross + 1 in 2 - 3 secs... It is just so depressing to see...LOL..


Man how is that even possible?! Maybe us oldies live in a time warp. Sometimes I watch a video of 3x3 solves and think "that doesn't look that fast", and it's like 14-15 seconds. If I get a solve at 15 seconds it feels like a frenzy. Do we look like we're in slowmo when the youngsters are watching us?


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## MarcelP (Nov 4, 2014)

mark49152 said:


> Man how is that even possible?! Maybe us oldies live in a time warp. Sometimes I watch a video of 3x3 solves and think "that doesn't look that fast", and it's like 14-15 seconds. If I get a solve at 15 seconds it feels like a frenzy. Do we look like we're in slowmo when the youngsters are watching us?



Yeah,.. LOL I got a 23 sec solve with fast turning.. I mean, smoke was comming from my fingers, and my 12 year old judge says 'Wow, nice time with such slow turning'.. LOL


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## kcl (Nov 4, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> Yeah,.. LOL I got a 23 sec solve with fast turning.. I mean, smoke was comming from my fingers, and my 12 year old judge says 'Wow, nice time with such slow turning'.. LOL



Honestly it kind of is. There is definitely a barrier in dexterity/tps the older you get. It's hard to describe, but I know what you mean. I felt like I was turning super fast when I was slower, and yet it was slow all along. It's a matter of perspective.


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## mark49152 (Nov 4, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> Yeah,.. LOL I got a 23 sec solve with fast turning.. I mean, smoke was comming from my fingers, and my 12 year old judge says 'Wow, nice time with such slow turning'.. LOL


LOL... Yeah that's exactly what I mean. To you, your fingers were a blur... To him, it was all in slowmo 

It might be interesting to try the "fastest fingers" comp again and see if our turning has got faster, or just our lookahead.


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## MarcelP (Nov 4, 2014)

kclejeune said:


> I felt like I was turning super fast when I was slower, and yet it was slow all along. It's a matter of perspective.



I remember when I was doing a fake solve (a trained solve) and had to like 20 takes to get a 25 second solve on film..  So even with knowing where all the pairs where it was hard to get high tps.. LOL now 25 secs is a failed solve 



mark49152 said:


> LOL... Yeah that's exactly what I mean. To you, your fingers were a blur... To him, it was all in slowmo
> 
> It might be interesting to try the "fastest fingers" comp again and see if our turning has got faster, or just our lookahead.



Yeah.. I am getting faster though. Check this post again  I have never had that TPS before..


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## Rocky0701 (Nov 4, 2014)

mark49152 said:


> LOL... Yeah that's exactly what I mean. To you, your fingers were a blur... To him, it was all in slowmo
> 
> It might be interesting to try the "fastest fingers" comp again and see if our turning has got faster, or just our lookahead.


I am glad I am not the only one who has noticed this. Solves on YouTube that are like 13-14 seconds look very slow to me, but if I get a sub 15 solve, It seems ridiculously fast.


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## mark49152 (Nov 5, 2014)

Yesss! First sub-2 blind cross session. Ao50 = 1.97.


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## sneaklyfox (Nov 5, 2014)

Rocky0701 said:


> I am glad I am not the only one who has noticed this. Solves on YouTube that are like 13-14 seconds look very slow to me, but if I get a sub 15 solve, It seems ridiculously fast.



Really? Why does it seem backwards to me? Sometimes when I watch a 18-19 sec solve on youtube it looks so fast like, I wish I could turn that fast... but then I do a 13-14 sec solve and wonder how on earth I could have gotten a faster time than the video I just watched. Or else I watch the video while thinking, "Is that what I look like to other people?" Maybe just a weird thing with perception. A week or so ago I was doing some relaxed turning (I can't really call it slow, I guess) and got a 10.xx solve surprisingly. It wasn't lucky either.


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## MarcelP (Nov 5, 2014)

mark49152 said:


> Yesss! First sub-2 blind cross session. Ao50 = 1.97.


Awesome! I will do also an Ao50 later today for reference.. Don't think I can pull that off...


sneaklyfox said:


> A week or so ago I was doing some relaxed turning (I can't really call it slow, I guess) and got a 10.xx solve surprisingly. It wasn't lucky either.



You are the queen of releaxed turning.. remember this 17 average with super slow turning?
If only you would have done LL some faster it would have been a sub 15 average 
[video=youtube_share;Lzrlf2yNXtU]http://youtu.be/Lzrlf2yNXtU[/video]


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## mark49152 (Nov 5, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> Awesome! I will do also an Ao50 later today for reference.. Don't think I can pull that off...


Great - so that we're comparing fairly, here's my personal rules for cross training. 

Take as much inspection time as you want. Then solve it eyes closed. Start and stop timer one-handed holding the cube (I use my phone). If the cross isn't properly solved, delete the time - unless it is just out by a D, D' or D2. If that is that case, count the time as long as you did some D move at the end but got it wrong - if you didn't do any D move, delete the time. Keep going until you have 50 successes .

Edit: and stick to the same cross colour so that you don't get the advantage of colour neutral easy crosses! 

Of course this depends on giving every cross my best shot - sometimes it might be tempting to not try so hard on a difficult cross so that the time gets deleted, but what's the point in distorting my own progress?

The idea is to measure how fast I am solving cross when successful, not to measure my blind success rate. Strangely I am faster blind than with eyes open.

Typically I get between 1 and 3.5 seconds. More than 3.5 and I've usually lost the plot and screwed up the cross anyway. My success rate is pretty good these days - maybe one failure per 7-8 attempts.


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## MarcelP (Nov 5, 2014)

Ok, I got 2.65 That is quite a bit slower.. I did use max 15 secs inspection (most around 8 secs) and with picking up. My succesrate was near 100% however.. All in all.. I am not complaining


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## mark49152 (Nov 5, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> Ok, I got 2.65 That is quite a bit slower.. I did use max 15 secs inspection (most around 8 secs) and with picking up. My succesrate was near 100% however.. All in all.. I am not complaining


Yeah that's good. I expect I'd be around that if picking up, and certainly I'd fail more if limited to 15 secs inspection. For tough crosses I must be way over that.


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## Rocky0701 (Nov 5, 2014)

I'll try this today. Sub 2 seems ridiculously fast to me though.


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## MarcelP (Nov 5, 2014)

Rocky0701 said:


> I'll try this today. Sub 2 seems ridiculously fast to me though.



With sight I think it is doable.. In my lunch break I did 30 normal solves.. Cube Weilong V2.. speed is comming back:



Spoiler: lost it a bit after the first 20 solves



Generated By csTimer on 2014-11-5
solves/total: 30/30

single
best: 15.99
worst: 24.34

mean of 3
current: 21.21 (σ = 3.86)
best: 18.18 (σ = 1.14)

avg of 5
current: 21.48 (σ = 0.95)
best: 18.31 (σ = 0.55)

avg of 12
current: 21.23 (σ = 0.95)
best: 19.22 (σ = 1.48)

Average: 20.22 (σ = 1.81)
Mean: 20.24

Time List:
1. 15.99 F2 D2 F2 U' R2 D' R2 U L2 B L2 B' F' D2 R' U' L' D F 
2. 22.82 D2 L2 R2 U' B2 U' F2 U2 L2 U' L2 B' R' U2 B2 U2 B D' U R' 
3. 19.10 F2 D2 U2 R2 B2 R D2 L2 D2 B2 D B2 R' F' L B R' U L2 D' 
4. 17.96 D U2 B2 U' L2 B2 U' R2 U B' L D' F D' B F' D' L' 
5. 23.74 U' R' B U2 R F L2 B' R' B' R2 B2 D' B2 D' R2 B2 U R2 D 
6. 20.37 F2 L2 U' L2 D' B2 R2 F2 L2 U B' D' U2 R2 F2 R U F' L' B' 
7. 19.48 R2 F' R2 U2 R2 U2 F2 L2 F L2 D L' D B' F D' L R2 D2 F 
8. 17.37 L D F' R' L D2 F' R D2 B' D2 B' R2 B U2 B2 R2 L2 F' 
9. 17.68 L2 F U2 B U2 B2 R2 F2 L2 F' U R' U B F2 D L' D2 F' U2 
10. 20.99 B2 R2 D' B2 D R2 D' B2 F2 L' U' L2 R2 F D2 L2 F D' U2 
11. 18.52 U2 B D' B D2 F R' F L F R2 D F2 D R2 B2 D2 R2 U F2 
12. 18.72 U' R2 U B2 R2 U2 F2 L2 D B2 R' D' U2 R' B' L' U B F D2 
13. 24.34 D2 R2 L D' B2 R B' U' F L' D R2 D B2 L2 D F2 B2 U L2 U' 
14. 21.26 D2 R2 B2 R' D2 L2 B2 F2 L' B2 L U L2 B L B R2 B2 F' R' F' 
15. 17.34 D2 F2 D' B2 U' B2 U2 B2 L2 F' D2 U L B' R' F D' B D' 
16. 19.31 B2 U L' U' L' B D2 L' U' B' L2 B2 L2 F2 B2 D' B2 U F2 D B2 
17. 21.10 R2 U2 B' F2 U2 L2 F' R2 B' R2 U' B F U2 R' D B L' U R 
18. 17.73 R2 D2 L2 R2 F2 U' R2 B2 R2 D2 F D2 B' U' B R' D F L' B' L 
19. 22.43 F2 B' D' R L D B2 U' B R2 L2 D' R2 D' L2 U R2 B2 D2 R2 
20. 19.59 D L2 U' F2 L2 R2 U' L2 D F2 D2 B R B' R2 D' F2 L U2 F' R' 
21. 21.92 B L2 U2 R2 B R2 D2 B' F2 R D' R U B' L D U F' R2 U' 
22. 20.04 R2 D' F2 U' L2 B2 D2 L2 D2 L2 F2 L U' B' F L' R' D' B F' U' 
23. 21.24 R2 F2 D B2 D' U' F2 D' B2 F2 R2 B' R' U L B2 U' F R U B 
24. 21.61 D2 F2 D2 B2 L D2 B2 R' D2 R2 B' D2 R2 B' R F D2 L2 R 
25. 21.02 B2 D2 R B2 U F2 L' F2 R' D2 B R2 F' L2 D2 F' L2 B U2 B2 
26. 21.35 B2 U' B' D L2 F2 U' D L B D2 F2 U2 B2 R2 F2 D2 L2 U' B2 D2 
27. 20.61 B L2 F L U' L2 D' L2 B R U2 F2 L2 D' L2 U' L2 B2 D2 R2 U 
28. 24.26 U F' L' U' L' B' D' L' F' R L2 D' R2 U R2 B2 U2 F2 L2 D' F2 
29. 16.87 B2 F2 R' F2 R' D2 L D2 L D' F D2 B2 F' R2 B R' U 
30. 22.49 L D2 U2 F2 D2 U2 R' F2 L2 D2 L2 D' L' F2 U' B' D2 R2 D' R2 F


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## Rocky0701 (Nov 5, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> With sight I think it is doable.. In my lunch break I did 30 normal solves.. Cube Weilong V2.. speed is comming back:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Nice! I have always thought it's weird that you and Mark are like 6-7 hours ahead of us. Lol SneaklyFox and I just woke up, and you have already had lunch. I will do 50 picking up and 50 in hand. When we did the cross+1 races, I always did it picking up. How do you scramble for cross? do you just do a full scramble? That's how I do it, but have always thought that it's pretty inefficient to do an entire scramble each time for 1-3 seconds of solving.


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## mark49152 (Nov 5, 2014)

Rocky0701 said:


> How do you scramble for cross? do you just do a full scramble? That's how I do it, but have always thought that it's pretty inefficient to do an entire scramble each time for 1-3 seconds of solving.


Yep, full scramble. And people in Asia have had their dinner already


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## Rocky0701 (Nov 5, 2014)

mark49152 said:


> Yep, full scramble. And people in Asia have had their dinner already


Ok, I'll suck it up haha. Scrambling is good for developing the ability to get higher TPS though.

Edit: I just got an idea, we should time like an ao12 of scrambling and see what TPS we get.


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## mark49152 (Nov 5, 2014)

Rocky0701 said:


> Ok, I'll suck it up haha. Scrambling is good for developing the ability to get higher TPS though.


Yeah I agree. I think it's good for cross in particular, because it gets you used to executing sequences of moves that aren't in muscle memory.


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## Rocky0701 (Nov 5, 2014)

mark49152 said:


> Yeah I agree. I think it's good for cross in particular, because it gets you used to executing sequences of moves that aren't in muscle memory.


Yeah, and used to moves that aren't very fingertricky.


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## mark49152 (Nov 5, 2014)

Rocky0701 said:


> Yeah, and used to moves that aren't very fingertricky.


Well, for a fast cross they should be, and that's perhaps more important than efficiency. For example, by default I always start planning my cross (on white) with white centre on bottom. Often that does result in poor trickability. If once you have a solution you then think about starting it from a different orientation and using M moves or wide turns, the same sequence of moves can often be translated into a much more trickable form.

I found reconstructions of Cornelius Dieckmann's solves really helpful here. He is a master of trickable cross solutions.


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## Logiqx (Nov 5, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> Ok, I got 2.65 That is quite a bit slower.. I did use max 15 secs inspection (most around 8 secs) and with picking up. My succesrate was near 100% however.. All in all.. I am not complaining



I've not done dedicated cross timing before so I thought I'd try a variation on your approach. I restricted myself to normal inspection time and allowed myself to watch during execution as through I was going to do cross+1. I know it's not "blind cross" and more like "planned cross" practice.

Total solves 74... overall average 2.24, Ao5 1.49, Ao12 1.96, Ao50 2.15.


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## Logiqx (Nov 5, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> With sight I think it is doable.. In my lunch break I did 30 normal solves.. Cube Weilong V2.. speed is comming back:



Whilst you guys have been practicing 4x4x4 and 5x5x5, I've gone the other way and spent a couple of days re-familiarising myself with 2x2x2.

Coming back to the 3x3x3 today, I've got a few PBs:



Spoiler



Generated By csTimer on 2014-11-5
solves/total: 100/100

single
best: 14.88
worst: 26.99

mean of 3
current: 22.95 (σ = 0.54)
best: 17.43 (σ = 0.31)

avg of 5
current: 23.45 (σ = 0.54)
best: 17.72 (σ = 0.33)

avg of 12
current: 22.47 (σ = 1.36)
best: 19.04 (σ = 1.78)

avg of 50
current: 21.05 (σ = 2.04)
best: 20.02 (σ = 1.56)

avg of 100
current: 20.67 (σ = 1.84)
best: 20.67 (σ = 1.84)

Average: 20.67 (σ = 1.84)
Mean: 20.73

Time List:
1. 21.40 U' B2 L2 D L2 U2 L2 F2 U B2 D F' U' R2 F2 U F2 L2 U2 R F 
2. 21.84 B2 F2 D' B2 L2 U2 B2 U F2 D' B' R B U2 L D' U' R' B D2 F 
3. 23.04 L B2 L2 R B2 R B2 F2 U2 B2 F' L B2 U2 B D2 U L2 D2 
4. 20.60 R2 U F2 U R2 D' F2 L2 F2 U L2 B R' F2 D2 U2 R B' F2 U2 
5. 19.07 U' B2 D' F2 D' R2 B2 D2 R2 U' R' B' U F2 R B L' D' B L' 
6. 21.24 U' B2 U2 L2 F2 U R2 D F' L2 U' B' L2 B2 L2 R' D' U 
7. 18.11 F2 B' R' D' L' U B2 D2 B R2 B2 U B2 U' B2 D L2 D2 B2 D' 
8. 22.63 F2 D B2 R2 B2 U' L2 U' F2 R2 D L' D B D F' D2 R D L B' 
9. 18.03 D U2 R2 D L2 B2 L2 R2 U2 R2 F' L B' D L' R2 U' R U' L2 
10. 19.92 L D R' D2 F' U D2 B' U2 D' B2 U2 L' B2 R B2 R D2 L B2 R2 
11. 17.37 B' L2 B D2 F' D2 F L2 R2 U2 F2 L U' L' D' F U F U2 R' B 
12. 17.76 U2 B2 L' F2 U2 F2 R2 F2 L2 F2 U2 F R' D' B' R U2 L' U' L2 B2 
13. 17.16 D L2 U2 F2 D' B2 U L2 U R2 B F D' F' R' B2 R2 U L' R2 
14. 19.14 R B2 L' F2 U2 L B2 R F2 U2 R2 D L2 D' B D R2 U' L U2 
15. 25.03 U2 R2 B2 F2 D U2 F2 R2 U' B2 L2 B' L R2 D U' B' F2 L' R' 
16. 16.82 D' L2 D' L2 U L2 F2 L2 B2 D' F2 R' D U2 B' D L' D' B2 F U' 
17. 20.52 U R U' F' D B' L' B' U2 R D' F2 U2 F2 L2 U' F2 U' B2 U2 
18. 22.18 U2 F2 L2 D2 F2 U2 B D2 U2 F L R' U' F' L2 R F D' U' L' 
19. 20.17 R2 U2 L D2 L F2 D2 B2 R' U2 R' B' R' U R2 B' L2 D B2 F' 
20. 21.79 U2 F' U R U2 F' U2 D' F' U2 R' L2 D2 B2 L' B2 L2 F2 
21. 19.88 F' D2 U2 B' U2 F' L2 B2 U' B' L F2 L U2 B L2 D R2 
22. 19.42 U2 R2 B2 U B2 D U2 F2 D2 R2 F D R2 U2 B2 F L R B 
23. 16.69 B2 L F2 L' D2 B2 U2 L' D2 B2 R D L R2 U' F2 R D B' D' B 
24. 20.70 B F L2 D2 L2 R2 F U2 F2 D2 L D F L2 D' F2 R' U' L2 F' U 
25. 16.70 F' D2 L2 D2 R2 F2 U2 F U2 F2 L B2 U' L F2 U' L' U2 F' R' 
26. 21.51 B2 F2 L2 D L2 U2 B2 D B2 R2 U2 R D2 R' B F2 D' L2 F' L R' 
27. 22.83 D R2 D R' U L F R L2 B' D2 R2 U' B2 D F2 L2 U F2 U 
28. 20.86 B2 L' U2 B2 F2 R F2 U2 R D2 R2 B F D B' L F' L R2 D' 
29. 21.19 U2 L' B2 R D2 B2 R' F2 U2 L' R2 B' R' D F2 D B L2 F U' 
30. 19.58 D2 L2 B R2 B L2 F' U2 F2 L2 F' D' F U B2 D2 R' B' U B2 
31. 20.95 D2 R D2 R F2 U2 L2 F2 R F2 U2 F D2 R U' L' R2 F' D2 U' 
32. 23.55 L' B2 L2 F2 R' U2 R F2 L' U2 B2 U' L R2 F L F L' U' B' L2 
33. 16.17 F2 D U2 B2 D F2 L2 R2 U' B' U' L U F2 D2 B' R' D2 F' 
34. 21.44 L D2 R2 F2 U D2 F' D L' B L2 B2 R D2 L2 B2 R' F2 U2 R' U2 
35. 19.84 B2 U2 L2 B F2 R2 D2 F R2 F' D2 U R B' L' D U' F' D F D' 
36. 22.44 R2 U' L U2 D' B D B R' F' U2 R2 B2 L2 F2 U R2 U D F2 L2 
37. 24.56 F2 D2 L' B2 U2 L' B2 L' R' B2 F L B U F' L U' F' U' R' 
38. 21.48 R F2 B2 U F2 R F' D B L U2 D2 F R2 F' U2 D2 F B L2 D2 
39. 19.84 D2 L2 R2 F' D2 B2 L2 U2 R2 U2 F2 R' B2 D R U L' D F' D2 F 
40. 23.29 B2 L2 B2 L2 R2 U B2 D2 R2 B2 U L' B L B' L2 R B' U F' U' 
41. 20.43 D2 F2 R2 D2 F2 U' L2 D2 R2 B2 U2 L D2 U F2 R U F U R' F' 
42. 20.14 B2 L D2 R F2 D2 L F2 L F2 L2 B' R2 D F' R' U' F L B R2 
43. 18.34 L2 B2 D2 L2 U' R2 D L2 D' F2 L' B' R2 D B2 D' L R2 D' B2 
44. 20.12 D U2 R2 D2 L2 B2 U' R2 U' R' D' U L' B2 R' B U' L 
45. 19.73 D' R2 U B2 R2 U2 L2 U L2 D F D L2 D2 L R' F U2 B' U' 
46. 21.33 U' F2 L2 F2 L2 D' R2 F2 D2 R2 B2 R U F2 L' U F' U' L' F2 
47. 20.19 D2 U2 B' R2 D2 R2 F' D2 F R2 F' U F L' R' F D2 L U2 F2 
48. 21.55 B' L2 F L2 U2 B D2 U2 R2 U2 F D F2 U F' R D' L' D B' D' 
49. 20.92 U L2 D R2 D L2 R2 B2 U' F2 R2 B' D' U B' R' B' F' L D R 
50. 17.92 B2 D' B2 U F2 U' L2 D2 F2 U F2 R B2 R' U2 L' F' U2 F L' U 
51. 19.13 B2 D' R' U F D2 B' L' D2 R2 U2 F' U2 B2 R2 B' D2 R2 F 
52. 19.69 L' B2 R F2 R2 U2 L2 R B2 D2 U2 B U R D B U' F2 D2 L F 
53. 20.02 F D2 F2 D2 F D2 R2 B L2 F' U' B2 D L D R2 U' B D' L 
54. 17.75 D2 F2 D2 U2 L' U2 R' F2 U2 F2 D' B' R2 F U F D B2 F2 R' 
55. 21.18 B2 L2 U2 B L2 B U2 L2 R2 B R B F2 L R2 B' L' U F' L2 
56. 18.10 D' R U' F' L2 F' B R2 D R' U R2 D B2 U2 D F2 B2 U L2 D' 
57. 18.35 F2 U' L2 B2 D' R2 U2 L2 B2 U' R2 B' U F' R' U2 B' F2 L' R' F' 
58. 20.14 B U' F2 B2 R F2 L2 B U D R L2 D2 L2 D2 F2 R' D2 L U2 L2 
59. 20.70 B U2 R F' L' D F2 U' F' B2 R' L' D2 F2 R' D2 L' D2 B2 U2 
60. 18.79 D' B2 D' R2 U' F2 U2 B2 F2 R2 U F R2 B2 F L B D L' R U 
61. 21.64 D2 B2 R2 D L2 U' R2 D B2 L2 D2 F U R U2 R' D U L' D B2 
62. 18.89 F D L' U R U2 L D B' U2 D2 F D2 B D2 R2 F2 B' D2 
63. 22.29 U L2 U B2 D' L2 D F2 U' L2 U L D' B D2 U' B2 R F' U2 L' 
64. 19.58 R2 F2 D2 L' B2 D2 B2 U2 L B L F' L2 U R B2 U' F D' 
65. 23.60 L' U' D R F2 B U F D B' D2 L2 D2 B D2 R2 F B2 R2 L2 
66. 26.56 B' L2 U2 R2 B2 D2 F' U2 R2 U2 B L U L' U2 L' F D F' L2 
67. 16.76 D' U' F2 D' F2 R2 B2 L2 R2 B' U2 L' U' R' F' L2 U' R' 
68. 22.32 L2 F2 R2 B2 R2 D2 B2 F2 R' B2 F' D L' D' R B D U F' U2 R' 
69. 23.24 F' D' L2 U D F' L' D B' D L2 U2 F2 R L2 B2 U2 R U2 R F2 
70. 17.83 F R' L2 F D' R F L2 B' R' U2 R2 U F2 D' R2 B2 U2 D' 
71. 21.18 R' B2 F2 U2 F2 R F2 R D2 F2 U' L' R' F R F2 R U2 F' U 
72. 18.77 R2 F D2 R U' L B L' F' R2 B2 L F2 B2 U2 R2 D2 R' F2 D2 
73. 24.78 D R2 B2 U2 R2 D' B2 D2 R2 B F D B L' B U2 F2 L' D 
74. 20.04 F2 L2 F2 U F2 R2 F2 L2 D2 R2 D' L' D' R2 F2 U2 F' D F2 D U' 
75. 23.12 D2 B2 U2 B2 L D2 R' U2 R2 F2 U L F2 R2 F' U B L' B2 
76. 23.52 F2 D2 L2 R2 F L2 U2 R2 U2 F2 R B U' B2 R2 B' R2 U2 L B 
77. 20.43 L R2 F2 U2 L B2 F2 D2 L U2 B2 F D2 U R F2 D' L B' F U2 
78. 26.99 U' B2 D2 F2 R2 B2 D' U' R2 U B2 L U F' U R' F2 U B L U' 
79. 19.40 D2 L2 U' B2 D' R2 D F2 L2 U' B R2 D2 L R' F' D' U R D2 
80. 18.02 B2 U2 L2 D2 F2 D2 F2 R B2 R' F2 U F' D U' L' B2 D' L' F R 
81. 20.47 R2 D2 B2 D' U2 B2 F2 L2 U F2 U2 L F L2 U' L F2 L' U B2 D 
82. 19.69 F2 U B L' D R' L' B L' U2 F2 L2 B2 L2 U2 R2 F' D2 F' R2 
83. 14.88 R2 F2 D' L2 U' R2 D' R2 U' F2 L U R B2 R2 U F' L2 B L2 
84. 20.08 D2 B2 U2 R2 F2 L U2 R F2 D F' D' U' B F' D' U' L F' U 
85. 26.40 B2 D2 F2 U' R2 U' L2 D' F2 U' B R U' R2 D' U L' D' L R 
86. 20.40 F2 R' D L B2 U' F B' R' B D' L2 F2 D' B2 U' D2 R2 D' L2 B2 
87. 19.75 L2 B2 U' R2 B2 D' F2 U L2 R2 B' L2 R2 F L U L' D2 R2 
88. 21.03 B2 F2 R2 B2 D' L2 D B2 L2 R' D' R' D' R U L' B F L' 
89. 21.20 U2 F L2 B' F L2 U2 F U2 F R F2 R B' L2 D F U B2 L' 
90. 19.84 F2 L2 F2 R2 D2 R2 B' U2 F' L2 R D R' F2 R' F' L' B' F2 L2 U' 
91. 24.12 D2 B L2 F L B D' R' U2 B2 D F2 L2 F2 B2 D B2 U2 
92. 19.06 B2 D2 B D2 F D2 F' D2 U2 R2 B' L' D F2 R D2 R D' F R2 B2 
93. 23.19 R2 U2 B D2 F' R2 D2 B F U R' B D R' D L' R' B F' 
94. 21.24 B2 R2 U2 F2 L2 D2 B D2 U2 L2 B' L' U2 R U B L R B' R F2 
95. 22.32 F2 L2 B2 D2 L D2 L R2 F2 R B2 U L' D2 R2 U2 B F U' L2 D2 
96. 23.95 L2 B' L2 R2 B U2 L2 R2 F2 D2 L2 R B D F' D2 L' R B D U' 
97. 26.54 R2 F2 U R2 B2 R2 U' R2 F2 U2 B2 L' B R2 F' D2 L' R' D' U' R' 
98. 22.44 F L2 B2 R2 F L2 F U2 L2 F2 U2 L' F2 L F R D B D2 U2 
99. 22.88 R2 D2 B2 U' B2 D B2 R2 B2 L2 U2 F' U' L' D' U' L R F R D2 
100. 23.52 U' D R2 B2 U' R B' D B2 R2 F2 R U2 R' L2 F2 B2 U2


21.x is starting to feel like a bad solve.


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## mark49152 (Nov 5, 2014)

Logiqx said:


> Whilst you guys have been practicing 4x4x4 and 5x5x5, I've gone the other way and spent a couple of days re-familiarising myself with 2x2x2.


Nice results. What 2x2 method do you use?


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## Rocky0701 (Nov 5, 2014)

I have been home from school yesterday and today because I have a fever, but I still cube while laying in bed. I just did 150 solves to finish up my first ao100. Broke all of my PBs including single 

stats: (hide)
number of times: 996/1000
best time: 10.974
worst time: 38.327

current mo3: 17.513 (σ = 2.82)
best mo3: 13.637 (σ = 2.32)

current avg5: 17.658 (σ = 1.36)
best avg5: 14.763 (σ = 0.46)

current avg12: 17.955 (σ = 1.81)
best avg12: 15.418 (σ = 0.93)

current avg50: 17.815 (σ = 2.09)
best avg50: 17.168 (σ = 1.36)

current avg100: 17.736 (σ = 1.90)
best avg100: 17.592 (σ = 1.94)

current avg1000: 18.432 (σ = 1.88)
best avg1000: 18.432 (σ = 1.88)

session avg: 18.432 (σ = 1.88)
session mean: 18.573


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## mark49152 (Nov 5, 2014)

Rocky0701 said:


> I have been home from school yesterday and today because I have a fever, but I still cube while laying in bed. I just did 150 solves to finish up my first ao100. Broke all of my PBs including single


Sub-11 single - awesome!


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## Logiqx (Nov 5, 2014)

mark49152 said:


> Nice results. What 2x2 method do you use?



Ortega. I've got two algs for all of the OLL and PBL cases.

I haven't done 2x2x2 for months... I'll time myself once I'm solving fluidly again.


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## Rocky0701 (Nov 5, 2014)

mark49152 said:


> Sub-11 single - awesome!


Yeah!  It surprised the heck outta me. PLL skip.



Logiqx said:


> Whilst you guys have been practicing 4x4x4 and 5x5x5, I've gone the other way and spent a couple of days re-familiarising myself with 2x2x2.
> 
> Coming back to the 3x3x3 today, I've got a few PBs:
> 
> ...


Man you were so close to getting a sub 20 ao50 .02 away. That happened to me when I was close to sub 20, I had like a 20.05 ao100 PB and it made me so mad haha. Awesome progress though! Isn't that like half a second better than your previous PB ao100?


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## MarcelP (Nov 5, 2014)

Logiqx said:


> Coming back to the 3x3x3 today, I've got a few PBs:
> 
> 21.x is starting to feel like a bad solve.



Nice!! sub 20 is around the corner..



Rocky0701 said:


> I have been home from school yesterday and today because I have a fever, but I still cube while laying in bed. I just did 150 solves to finish up my first ao100. Broke all of my PBs including single
> 
> best avg100: 17.592 (σ = 1.94)



Sweet.. you are in a different league 



Logiqx said:


> Ortega. I've got two algs for all of the OLL and PBL cases.



Interesting! Can you make a video of that?


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## MarcelP (Nov 5, 2014)

My first sub 18 in weekly competition



Spoiler: Yeah I am cool



*3X3X3:* 17.97 17.84 (18.89) (16.36) 17.61 = *17.81*


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## Rocky0701 (Nov 5, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> My first sub 18 in weekly competition
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Nice! Even your worst solve was sub 19  You beat me.


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## mark49152 (Nov 5, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> My first sub 18 in weekly competition
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Too fast, dude...


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## Rocky0701 (Nov 5, 2014)

This thread is popular haha, 22 posts in the past 6 hours, and 40 something in the past day. 

I got 2.25 in hand BLD. My success rate was like 4/5. If it would've been non blind I bet it would be sub 2. That was pretty fun!

number of times: 50/50
best time: 1.058
worst time: 4.491

current mo3: 2.047 (σ = 0.21)
best mo3: 1.552 (σ = 0.82)

current avg5: 2.047 (σ = 0.21)
best avg5: 1.745 (σ = 0.47)

current avg12: 2.104 (σ = 0.35)
best avg12: 2.082 (σ = 0.35)

current avg50: 2.253 (σ = 0.50)
best avg50: 2.253 (σ = 0.50)

session avg: 2.253 (σ = 0.50)
session mean: 2.278


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## Logiqx (Nov 5, 2014)

Rocky0701 said:


> Man you were so close to getting a sub 20 ao50 .02 away. That happened to me when I was close to sub 20, I had like a 20.05 ao100 PB and it made me so mad haha. Awesome progress though! Isn't that like half a second better than your previous PB ao100?



I didn't notice it at the time but the rolling Ao50 went from 20.33 to 20.02 between solve 50 and 58. My previous PB for the Ao50 was set about 2 weeks ago and was 20.60.

My previous Ao100 was 21.10 so it was a nice improvement despite my last 30 solves being poor... either I was getting tired or the fading light was having an effect!



MarcelP said:


> Interesting! Can you make a video of that?



I need to draw up a nice cheat sheet at the very least. I try to keep a nice record of my alg sets but I've neglected 2x2x2.

Most of my 2x2x2 algs are listed on Chris Olson's website. Many of the OCLL algs can also be used during 2-look CMLL as well, excluding the H case.

Damn.... I haven't done any Roux for a couple of weeks. Too little spare time and too many cubing challenges! 



Rocky0701 said:


> This thread is popular haha, 22 posts in the past 6 hours, and 40 something in the past day.



It's the forum equivalent of a coffee shop in Amsterdam. Everyone is chilled out and there is hardly ever any trouble.


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## Rocky0701 (Nov 5, 2014)

Logiqx said:


> It's the forum equivalent of a coffee shop in Amsterdam. Everyone is chilled out and there is hardly ever any trouble.


Lol. So you are saying that we are all high and mellowed out?


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## Logiqx (Nov 5, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> Interesting! Can you make a video of that?



I've made my cheat sheet. I'm too lazy to do a video right now! Download - Ortega.zip

I try to predict the first layer permutation during inspection (occasionally the OCLL as well) and aim to put a bar at the back.

I know a couple more algs for the most common PBL case but the one I've listed seems fastest for me.



Rocky0701 said:


> Lol. So you are saying that we are all high and mellowed out?



Maybe not high but right now it is beer o' clock and that will mellow me out.


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## Logiqx (Nov 5, 2014)

Logiqx said:


> I've made my cheat sheet. I'm too lazy to do a video right now! Download - Ortega.zip



I made a slight tweak... PBL cases marked with an asterisk have now been moved to the right hand side.

Let me know your thoughts.


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## TDM (Nov 5, 2014)

Logiqx said:


> I've made my cheat sheet. I'm too lazy to do a video right now! Download - Ortega.zip



Suggestions for other algs:
Sune:
[y] L' U2 L U L' U L
[y2] L U L' U L U2 L'
Antisune:
[y2] L' U' L U' L' U2 L
[y'] L U2 L' U' L U' L'
Adjacent swaps:
R2 U' B2 U2 R2 U' R2
[y2] R2 U' R2 U2 F2 U' R2
Adjacent top, diagonal bottom:
L F' R U2 R' U L' (looks weird with the L/R moves etc. but I can sub-0.5 it easily, sub-0.4 sometimes)
Adjacent swap on top:
R' F R F' R U2 R' U R U2 R'
[y] L F' R U2 R' U R U2 R2
[y2] L R U2 R' F' R U2 R' U L'
[y'] L R U2 R2 F R F' R U2 R' U L'
Adjacent swap on bottom:
x' R2 F R F' R U2' R' U R U2
R2 U' R' U L' U2 R U' R' U2
[y2] x U2 R' F' R U2 R' U L' U' R2
Diagonal swaps:
R2 B2 R2 (to avoid a regrip)

(I know too many PBLs/OLLs and not enough CLLs... this isn't even everything)


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## Logiqx (Nov 5, 2014)

TDM said:


> (I know too many PBLs/OLLs and not enough CLLs... this isn't even everything)



Thanks for the suggestions. I know some of them already (or at least come across them before) but some of the algs are completely new to me. I'm allergic to left handed Sune so I limit myself to the two RU options. I'd only just added R2 B2 R2 to my copy of the document prior to your reply!

Have you tried my adjacent swap on the bottom? If you like the alg it is derived from (R U’ R’ U’ R’ F2 U’ R U R) you may well like how it flows and it doesn't contain any rotations.


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## TDM (Nov 5, 2014)

Logiqx said:


> Thanks for the suggestions. I know some of them already (or at least come across them before) but some of the algs are completely new to me. I'm allergic to left handed Sune so I limit myself to the two RU options.


But left handed sune is the best... 


> Have you tried my adjacent swap on the bottom? If you like the alg it is derived from (R U’ R’ U’ R’ F2 U’ R U R) you may well like how it flows and it doesn't contain any rotations.


I have, and I love it. There are other algs I use that I didn't post just because you already had them.


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## Logiqx (Nov 5, 2014)

TDM said:


> But left handed sune is the best... .



Are you left or right handed? I used the lefty Sune(s) during my early stages of cubing but I never managed to get them as fast as my right hand. I still use them for non-speed purposes.



TDM said:


> I have, and I love it. There are other algs I use that I didn't post just because you already had them.



That's cool. I was quite pleased when I worked it out for myself... despite it being a simple R2 F2 R2 tweak for another case.

Thanks for taking the time to give me some new algs. I've filed them safely with all of the PBL info I've collated.


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## sneaklyfox (Nov 6, 2014)

Rocky0701 said:


> I have been home from school yesterday and today because I have a fever, but I still cube while laying in bed. I just did 150 solves to finish up my first ao100. Broke all of my PBs including single



Wow, beating PBs while sick. Crazy.

I haven't done cross training in forever. You guys are actually quite fast. I don't know if I would be much faster...

1.53 Ao12 Not that much faster. Only one sub-1 cross.


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## Rocky0701 (Nov 6, 2014)

sneaklyfox said:


> Wow, beating PBs while sick. Crazy.
> 
> I haven't done cross training in forever. You guys are actually quite fast. I don't know if I would be much faster...
> 
> 1.53 Ao12 Not that much faster. Only one sub-1 cross.


I don't feel that sick, but had a 100° fever yesterday and today. I should be able to go to school tomorrow though. You should do a BLD cross ao50!


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## sneaklyfox (Nov 6, 2014)

Rocky0701 said:


> I don't feel that sick, but had a 100° fever yesterday and today. I should be able to go to school tomorrow though. You should do a BLD cross ao50!



Done. BLD cross Ao50 = 1.77. 6 sub-1.5, no sub-1. I think my sighted crosses are faster. Or maybe I'm getting tired now.

Edit: Were we supposed to measure success rate too? I got them all except one which I deleted. The last move was supposed to be L2 but I did L' only. I think it was a sensory accident. Inspection takes 3-8 seconds.


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## kcl (Nov 6, 2014)

mark49152 said:


> Great - so that we're comparing fairly, here's my personal rules for cross training.
> 
> Take as much inspection time as you want. Then solve it eyes closed. Start and stop timer one-handed holding the cube (I use my phone). If the cross isn't properly solved, delete the time - unless it is just out by a D, D' or D2. If that is that case, count the time as long as you did some D move at the end but got it wrong - if you didn't do any D move, delete the time. Keep going until you have 50 successes .
> 
> ...



This is how I made my cross+1 as good as it is now. I had 90/100 at one point.


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## TDM (Nov 6, 2014)

Logiqx said:


> Are you left or right handed? I used the lefty Sune(s) during my early stages of cubing but I never managed to get them as fast as my right hand. I still use them for non-speed purposes.
> 
> That's cool. I was quite pleased when I worked it out for myself... despite it being a simple R2 F2 R2 tweak for another case.
> 
> Thanks for taking the time to give me some new algs. I've filed them safely with all of the PBL info I've collated.


I'm right handed... my left handed sunes aren't as fast, but L U L' U L U2 L' was faster than my normal sune (on 3x3) for a while before I learned how to fingertrick it. I can now sub-0.5 normal sune on a 3x3, but I haven't timed left handed ones and don't have a working stackmat.
A lot of my PBLs are R2 F2 F2 then an alg or the other way round too. Three of my four adj swap on U algs are R2 B2 R2 and my diag-adj swap alg.
It didn't really take that much time; I just copied and pasted them over from my own document  (well it's a website but it's so far from being finished that I wasn't going to show anyone it yet. I stopped working on it months ago, but I keep my algs up to date so I can access them from anywhere. There are some that are on there that I still haven't learned).


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## mark49152 (Nov 6, 2014)

sneaklyfox said:


> Done. BLD cross Ao50 = 1.77. 6 sub-1.5, no sub-1. I think my sighted crosses are faster. Or maybe I'm getting tired now.
> 
> Edit: Were we supposed to measure success rate too? I got them all except one which I deleted. The last move was supposed to be L2 but I did L' only. I think it was a sensory accident. Inspection takes 3-8 seconds.



I don't measure success rate. I know if I'm having a good or bad day and that's enough . See my long post that Kennan quoted above - I delete times where the cross is not solved unless it's only out by a D move. The logic behind that is questionable but that's what I started doing and I don't want to change my metric now and distort my record of progress. I probably get a misaligned D every 8-10 solves or so.

Ao50 of 1.77 with only six sub-1.5 suggests that your times were very consistent. How many sup-2s did you have?

Edit: in my ao50 = 1.97 there were 11 sub-1.5 and two sup-3. Range was 1.07-3.35 and stddev 0.48.


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## Rocky0701 (Nov 6, 2014)

Oh, I didn't know we were supposed to align the D layer, I just consider that part of F2L.


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## sneaklyfox (Nov 6, 2014)

mark49152 said:


> Ao50 of 1.77 with only six sub-1.5 suggests that your times were very consistent. How many sup-2s did you have?
> 
> Edit: in my ao50 = 1.97 there were 11 sub-1.5 and two sup-3. Range was 1.07-3.35 and stddev 0.48.



I think my times were fairly consistent, yeah. I had 6 sup-2 times, the worst being 2.37. Stddev 0.2


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## MarcelP (Nov 7, 2014)

sneaklyfox said:


> Done. BLD cross Ao50 = 1.77. 6 sub-1.5, no sub-1. I think my sighted crosses are faster. Or maybe I'm getting tired now.



That is rather quick! Nice.. And yeah, sighted must be faster.



kclejeune said:


> This is how I made my cross+1 as good as it is now. I had 90/100 at one point.


How fast is your cross + 1 now? 

Today in my earlybird training session I was on fire. With cold hands and bad lights I did an Ao50 with no white and no yellow crosses:



Spoiler: CN training is the bomb



Generated By csTimer on 2014-11-7
solves/total: 50/50

single
best: 14.18
worst: 28.06

mean of 3
current: 21.86 (σ = 2.35)
best: 17.07 (σ = 2.54)

avg of 5
current: 20.45 (σ = 1.73)
best: 17.59 (σ = 1.65)

avg of 12
current: 20.36 (σ = 2.45)
best: 19.72 (σ = 1.63)

avg of 50
current: 20.87 (σ = 2.24)
best: 20.87 (σ = 2.24)

Too high stddev.. but hey.. I do not complain

14+: 2
16+: 5
18+: 14
20+: 13
22+: 9
24+: 5
26+: 1
28+: 1


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## MarcelP (Nov 7, 2014)

My speed is somewhat returning



Spoiler



Generated By csTimer on 2014-11-7
solves/total: 5/5

single
best: 16.81
worst: 20.67

mean of 3
current: 18.85 (σ = 1.94)
best: 18.03 (σ = 1.14)

avg of 5
current: 19.05 (σ = 0.84)
best: 19.05 (σ = 0.84)

Average: 19.05 (σ = 0.84)
Mean: *18.93*

Time List:
1. 19.88 R' L D2 F2 D2 F L' D2 L U2 F2 U2 R2 U2 D' F2 B2 U R2 B2 
2. 18.21 B2 U2 F' L2 F' D2 F D2 U2 F2 R2 D F2 L F R' D' B2 R2 B' U' 
3. 19.06 L' F L' F' U2 R' B2 R' L2 B2 U F2 U' F2 U R2 U D2 R2 
4. 16.81 B L2 R2 U2 B F U2 L2 B' L2 R' D' F2 L' U R2 B2 D B R' 
5. 20.67 U' L2 U F U B2 R2 F L' B R2 D L2 U' R2 U F2 D F2 U'


[video=youtube_share;4Rb3C4peNNY]http://youtu.be/4Rb3C4peNNY[/video]


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## Rocky0701 (Nov 9, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> My speed is somewhat returning
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Nice average! It's time you broke some PBs though! Inb4, you beat your PB ao100 in the next two weeks.


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## MarcelP (Nov 9, 2014)

LOL I hope so.. I am working hard on it..


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## MarcelP (Nov 9, 2014)

Ok, broke my Ao100 and Ao50 today! Jay! I lost my cool a bit in the end. I was sub 19.80 for the biggest part of the session.


Spoiler



Generated By csTimer on 2014-11-9
solves/total: 100/100

single
best: 13.38
worst: 24.87

mean of 3
current: 21.47 (σ = 1.23)
best: 17.55 (σ = 3.62)

avg of 5
current: 20.24 (σ = 1.67)
best: 17.82 (σ = 0.89)

avg of 12
current: 19.78 (σ = 1.72)
best: 19.03 (σ = 1.64)

avg of 50
current: 19.89 (σ = 1.42)
best: 19.54 (σ = 1.31)

avg of 100
current: 19.86 (σ = 1.34)
best: 19.86 (σ = 1.34)

Average: 19.86 (σ = 1.34)
Mean: 19.85

Time List:
1. 19.94 D F' U F U2 L' R U R2 F' D' L2 F2 R2 U' F L2 U F2 D2 L' D L D F2 
2. 19.23 B2 L2 U R' L' D' L' F' L2 F2 L D U F U L' F B R L' U2 R' U2 R' D' 
3. 21.49 U2 D F' R U B2 U2 L' U' R' L2 B' L' F U' L' U2 B2 U2 D R F' D2 B L2 
4. 19.83 U2 F' U F L' U B2 R' L2 F2 U R2 L2 U2 L2 B' D' U' L2 B' F2 D L' U2 L 
5. 19.76 U' R' F2 D2 B2 R U L2 U2 B' F D R' L D U' F' D2 F2 B2 U2 B2 L' B' R' 
6. 20.40 B' U2 F' U B' D2 L' F U2 R' D' R' L2 F L R' B' R2 F U2 L U' F' R2 F2 
7. 21.42 R' L2 D' B2 F' L' B' R' D' L' R2 D2 L B D' F2 D F U R L' U' R' D' F 
8. 18.45 D U2 L' D U2 B2 R D B2 R' B2 F' D L' R' D U' L2 F2 U' R2 L2 D' B2 F 
9. 19.78 F' D' L2 U2 D B2 R F' D2 L' R2 F D B D R B' L2 B' U B2 F' L2 D' U 
10. 19.68 D' F2 B' D2 U L F L F2 R2 D2 F' L U' B' U B' D B F' D2 B' R' D2 B' 
11. 21.57 R' B L U2 R2 D2 U B2 F U' D2 F R' F B' D' R2 L U D R F' L B' R 
12. 22.88 R2 U' F L2 F' L' D2 R' B2 R' B2 R2 D2 L2 F L U2 L' B' D' L2 F' L2 F' B' 
13. 18.76 B2 F U2 D B U' F B D B R' B2 L' R2 F' B' L' R2 D B2 L2 D F L' R' 
14. 19.67 B U D2 B2 F R2 U' D' F' U2 L' D U F2 B2 U' F' B2 D' U L2 F B2 L' F' 
15. 20.95 D' U2 L' B2 D2 R2 F2 B' U R' F' B2 U' L2 U R B' F U2 F B R F B' R 
16. 20.82 B2 D2 F2 R L' F B D' B2 L D2 B F L' B2 L' U F L' R U F2 U2 B' L' 
17. 19.48 R' L B' F L' R D' R' U2 R D2 B' U2 L D L' B2 D' U' R' U L' D' R2 B 
18. 18.19 L U' F2 L B' F2 U R B' L2 B R' F U2 B' L' D2 B' U' F D B D L B 
19. 19.92 F2 D' R' B' D2 L' B2 L' F' U' D2 F D2 U2 F2 R B2 U2 D' F B' U' F2 L' B' 
20. 21.32 U B D2 U' B2 L' R2 F2 D2 B U D2 L' R' U' D' B' U' F' L2 R' U B R' L' 
21. 22.04 R2 F' D' F2 U2 D2 F B2 R' U2 B2 D L F' B2 U' R F B2 U' D R D2 L' D2 
22. 16.26 L' B' F D2 R L' B2 F2 D2 U L2 B2 R D' U R' F2 L B U' B' R' B2 D' L2 
23. 18.72 F R2 L' B' U' F' D U' R2 B2 R' D' R U B' F D F' D' R D2 B L2 R U2 
24. 20.22 B' R2 L F' L2 R' U D2 R2 B2 R2 F2 R B2 U2 D L2 F2 B L' R F U D' F 
25. 19.56 L' U' F2 L' D' L' R2 D2 B U2 B' L' B F' U2 R2 F2 R D2 U2 R2 L F2 R2 L2 
26. 20.32 B' R' B2 F' U B' D' L2 B' L2 B U' B R2 L' D L2 U B2 F2 R2 L2 F' U2 L 
27. 16.84 U F2 R2 L F2 D2 B R F R' F2 R U' R' D' F' L' B2 L' R' F' U B2 D2 L2 
28. 19.22 D' U B2 R B2 D L2 U2 B D' U L2 F B2 D' U2 L' F2 D2 R2 L F B2 D2 F 
29. 22.20 R F D2 R U R2 B2 U2 D' R2 L' F L D F2 L2 D2 B L' D U R' F U F 
30. 18.15 R' D L2 D' L' R' F2 D U' L' F2 U' R B2 D2 B2 L2 U2 F' R U' D' L U' D 
31. 16.99 B' D R' D' F L F' L2 U' D L B' F2 U2 R U' D R' D F2 B R B' D' F' 
32. 20.66 R' U L R B2 L2 B D' U L2 R2 U' R2 U' L R2 U2 F2 B R' F2 R L2 U L 
33. 19.91 R' B R' F B2 L2 F B' L2 B2 U' D2 R' U L F U' L' B2 F D F2 B U2 F 
34. 17.20 L2 U2 B U2 R L U2 D2 F U2 D2 R B F R' U2 L2 F' D F' B' U D' F U' 
35. 20.94 B' U' B L U B2 R L2 U' L2 D R2 L' D U2 R' U2 R L' U L B2 U' F L2 
36. 18.60 R2 B' F2 R' B2 U' F B2 R2 U F B' U B D' U2 F U2 F' D2 L' D' F L' U2 
37. 19.26 U2 R D F L2 D F B D' F2 U D' R' B' U B2 U' L2 U' B' F L B' U' D' 
38. 22.51 D' B' R F2 D2 R2 U2 L' F' B' D L2 R B U L' D R' L2 U R D2 U' F2 R2 
39. 18.19 F' U' D L2 D2 U' R' D F' D L' F' B2 D2 F D' F2 U' R' U' F U2 L2 R' B 
40. 20.03 F2 U D2 B R L' U2 F' L2 D2 U B2 D' F' U D' L2 B2 U2 L2 R' F B' R2 F' 
41. 18.89 D B2 R2 L' U2 B2 L' R' U2 L' R U2 D' R2 F' D R U B U' R' L U' F2 D2 
42. 18.11 U2 R' L' U2 F2 D F U L R2 D' F2 L R2 F R D U' B2 R' D2 B R' F2 B' 
43. 19.21 U2 L' U2 F2 R L F2 D L' B2 U' L R2 D' F2 R2 D' R' F2 R2 B' U' D' B' F2 
44. 20.38 B2 U2 L' R2 U2 F' D2 U L' B F' R L2 F B' R U F R' L' B2 D2 F2 D2 R2 
45. 24.87 R L2 D2 L' B2 D2 R' L2 D' R L' U2 R' B2 L2 F' L2 U D R F2 D' R' L2 D 
46. 20.15 R' D2 R L' U2 R2 U F' D F B L2 U' R' B' L' B2 U2 F R U D' F' U' B 
47. 18.33 R2 L2 F R2 F' L' F2 U' R2 L2 D2 L2 D L2 U R' D2 R U2 F2 L' F2 R U' L 
48. 19.73 D' F B2 R2 L2 D' U2 B2 D U2 R2 D2 F U' B' D' R' U F R' D' U B' U2 B' 
49. 20.78 L2 B2 L2 B' U' D2 R2 U2 F2 U2 L' R' B' F L R' U B R L2 U' L2 R2 F D2 
50. 21.50 R' L' U2 D' B D' L' U2 D B2 U2 F' U B L B2 D L B' U F L' B' R2 U' 
51. 21.16 D' B L U' D' R' D' R' U2 B2 U2 D' B D F2 L' D' L2 F2 R2 B F2 U2 D' R 
52. 19.61 U L2 D U2 R' L B U' D2 L2 B' U2 B F2 D' B U2 D' R' D' R2 F' R U2 L' 
53. 21.06 R' B2 L U2 D' L2 R U' L' D2 R' U R' F2 D2 F' L F2 R' L' F B' U2 D R' 
54. 21.79 B' L' F2 L' D2 U' L R2 U F R' B' D U2 L R2 D2 B' F2 R' B R2 L D' L2 
55. 18.31 D' F B2 U2 F2 D' R2 D2 R' U' B' U L2 R' U' B2 U' R' L' B2 R' B2 F U2 B2 
56. 19.30 D' F L D R D' F2 B D' F2 D B D B2 D L2 F' B' L' D' R2 D U' L B 
57. 19.37 F' R' U F L' U' B F2 R' D B U2 L' B D R2 F L F2 L2 B D R' B' R2 
58. 19.50 R D2 B2 D R' D B2 D2 U B U R2 U' B R' B2 L' D U' L B2 D2 L2 D2 B' 
59. 20.36 D' L2 U R U' D2 B' U F R' B R B' R L F R' U D2 L B F' D2 B2 L 
60. 19.96 D' U' L2 U2 B' F2 D2 B F' D' R2 D' R' L2 F' R2 D F2 B2 D F' R' D' B R2 
61. 18.21 D2 F' B2 L U B U2 R2 L2 D L R B' R2 F B U R2 B D B2 R' D2 L D' 
62. 22.43 L B F' R D2 R D' F B R2 L' B2 F2 L' R' D2 U L B R' L2 B D B2 R' 
63. 19.44 D2 F L2 U2 L2 U B2 D' L' D' R L' F' B R B U2 D F' B R' U B' F2 R' 
64. 18.05 D L2 F R B2 D2 B' U L' U' L R2 U B D' U' L2 D2 U L D' F2 B L2 D' 
65. 21.92 B2 U' F' R F R L2 D' L R' U B2 F2 R' D' U2 F2 D L2 D2 F2 B' L D2 U' 
66. 17.14 D2 L2 F2 B2 L2 U R2 U L' U' R B U D2 R2 B L2 R' B2 L F L' R F' B 
67. 20.53 D B' R' D2 U B D' F2 U L' U R2 U2 D2 B2 R' F' D' R' B' F D2 L' R2 U2 
68. 17.50 F B2 R' D2 U2 R2 D' R' F2 U B2 D B2 F L2 R' F B' U2 F R' F L U2 F2 
69. 18.83 D2 U2 B' F' U' R2 B L' R' B' L D' U R D2 U2 B2 L U B' D B D2 F' L2 
70. 16.68 B2 D2 U2 F2 U' F U' D2 R D2 R' D B2 F R' D2 B R' B2 L2 U' F U' D' B 
71. 20.37 B' R D U B' U' D' L' U F2 D L2 F' L2 R U R' D2 B D' F2 B D U B2 
72. 21.32 F D' L' B U2 D2 R' U2 F2 B2 L2 F2 B2 D2 R2 F2 D R2 D U2 L F' B D' B 
73. 20.59 R' F U2 F' U2 B U B2 U F' U2 D' F2 B2 U R' B R' F2 D2 F2 U' L2 B' U' 
74. 19.32 L D L' D' L' F B U' D L2 B' U B' U' B2 R U2 F2 D R2 U2 D' B2 F2 D2 
75. 13.38 F' R' F D U' F U' R' L D' B' F2 D' U' L2 F2 U' D2 B D' R2 U2 F2 R2 U 
76. 19.94 D' U2 F B2 L U' D2 F' R L2 U2 B' R2 F U' R' D2 R' D' F2 B' D2 L F2 U 
77. 20.62 D' L' R U' R2 D' U R U' L D' B2 R F L D2 L' B' R B' F2 D' U B L' 
78. 22.77 B2 F' L B2 R' L2 D' R L U B2 D U' R2 U F' L' R2 D' U F' B' U' B R2 
79. 18.46 D2 U2 F' B D2 L U R' B' F' U2 R F2 B L2 B R2 B2 R D2 B' U D' F L2 
80. 19.88 B R2 F R2 U' F U R' D U B2 U B' L2 F' D' B' U2 R2 U B2 U F2 L U' 
81. 19.73 F L2 R' D2 L2 B' L F' B' U2 B' D' L2 U2 B' L' U2 F2 B R2 D' B' R' B2 L' 
82. 20.59 U2 L' D' R2 U2 F' R' L' D2 L R2 F L U2 B2 F U R' F D2 U L2 D L D2 
83. 23.02 F2 B D' R' B' L2 D U F' R D2 B2 D' F' L2 U' F' D' F L B2 U R2 U2 L' 
84. 22.36 U' L B' R F L2 B' F U2 F2 R' L2 D' R' L2 D2 U' R' F B' U2 L B2 D B' 
85. 19.10 U2 R' L2 D2 B2 U2 F R2 D U F' L D2 B' R L F2 U' B2 L' R2 U2 R L B 
86. 20.76 L' D' F L' D2 U' R U2 D2 L' U F D' U' R D' B U' D R F' L R' U2 F2 
87. 21.49 L R' D' R' U R' B F R B' L U2 D' F' D U L D' L2 B' R2 B F' U L 
88. 18.56 U F2 D2 B2 D' U2 L2 F U F B2 U B2 U L D' L R' D B F2 L' R' F L' 
89. 16.61 B' D' R2 F' U2 B2 R' B U' R2 D' L2 F2 D U F' B' D B L R' D U L U' 
90. 20.46 D2 F' R2 L2 D L2 R' B2 F U' F' U D F R' U2 F U' F' D F2 D F2 R2 D2 
91. 18.66 D' B2 U2 L D2 B F' U2 R2 F L F D2 F' D R2 L F D L2 D B2 R U R' 
92. 23.79 U2 R2 B' R B' L' F L2 B' D R' B F' L2 B2 F' R' L2 F' B D2 U' F2 L D2 
93. 21.46 F' L' U L2 R' B L2 R2 D L D' F' R L D' F' D' B2 D U' R' U' B2 D' U' 
94. 18.55 D' B2 U L' F U2 D2 B' L2 R' B' L R' F L2 R' F2 R U F2 B' D B2 U2 F' 
95. 17.73 R U2 L' F2 R' L D' R D R' F' B' L' B' F U2 D' F' R' D2 F U F2 R U' 
96. 18.67 U2 D2 F U' R' U B2 D' R F R2 F' R2 U2 F L' D' U2 F2 B2 R D' R' L2 B 
97. 17.89 U B R' B U2 F B U2 B2 F U2 F2 B2 R' L F2 U F' B2 U' R' L2 U' R D' 
98. 21.99 D' U2 F2 R2 F' R2 U D2 F' U' R' D F D' L U F' R2 U2 R B2 F' U2 B F' 
99. 22.35 R2 F2 B' D' F R D R2 L2 D B' F L2 F B L2 B L2 B' U' R' F B' U L 
100. 20.07 F U' D F U B F' L' U2 B2 R U' D' L R F2 B D U L' B2 D R F D'



Edit: I think lots of CN training has slightly improved lookahead. I had many none white/yellow crosses. Like this red cross:

75. *13.38* F' R' F D U' F U' R' L D' B' F2 D' U' L2 F2 U' D2 B D' R2 U2 F2 R2 U


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## Rocky0701 (Nov 9, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> Ok, broke my Ao100 and Ao50 today! Jay! I lost my cool a bit in the end. I was sub 19.80 for the biggest part of the session.
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> ...


Holy crap! Awesome  I guess I can tell the future haha. Great job!


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## mark49152 (Nov 9, 2014)

Awesome, Marcel . So, are you "officially sub-20" yet?


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## MarcelP (Nov 9, 2014)

I considder my self sub 20 after 4 Ao100s that where sub 20.  But still there are days that I am not sub 20  And official as in competition will take some while.. I do a lot worse on comps.


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## mark49152 (Nov 9, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> I considder my self sub 20 after 4 Ao100s that where sub 20.


Yeah definitely


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## Rocky0701 (Nov 10, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> I considder my self sub 20 after 4 Ao100s that where sub 20.  But still there are days that I am not sub 20  And official as in competition will take some while.. I do a lot worse on comps.


I would consider 4 sub 20 ao100s to be sub 20 too! Have you ever done a full ao1000? I first considered myself full sub 20 when I was like 500 solves into an ao1000 one time.


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## MarcelP (Nov 10, 2014)

Rocky0701 said:


> I would consider 4 sub 20 ao100s to be sub 20 too! Have you ever done a full ao1000? I first considered myself full sub 20 when I was like 500 solves into an ao1000 one time.



No, a year back I did an Ao100 every day and two of them on most days.. Now I am happy with one in a week. I spend much less time cubing these days. Also doing big averages is making me tired quickly. I wish I could do an Ao500 or 1000 but I doubt it will ever happen


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## mark49152 (Nov 10, 2014)

Rocky0701 said:


> I would consider 4 sub 20 ao100s to be sub 20 too! Have you ever done a full ao1000? I first considered myself full sub 20 when I was like 500 solves into an ao1000 one time.


When I was doing regular averages I considered an ao12 of my last 12 ao50+ results to be a good indicator of my "global" average.


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## Rocky0701 (Nov 11, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> No, a year back I did an Ao100 every day and two of them on most days.. Now I am happy with one in a week. I spend much less time cubing these days. Also doing big averages is making me tired quickly. I wish I could do an Ao500 or 1000 but I doubt it will ever happen


Yeah I understand. All you need to do though is stop deleting your times after each session and let it add up to 1000. Even if you only do 25 solves a day, that will add up to 1000 in a month. It really motivated me, because when I looked back at the first like 100 solves I was much slower then so it showed my progress really well.


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## Rocky0701 (Nov 11, 2014)

mark49152 said:


> When I was doing regular averages I considered an ao12 of my last 12 ao50+ results to be a good indicator of my "global" average.


That's a great way too. I have always just added around a second to my PB ao100 and figured that to be my global average, which I think works pretty well because my PB ao100 is 17.41 and my PB ao1000 is like 18.36


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## MarcelP (Nov 14, 2014)

So,, I did not do 5X5 for two weeks or so.. and had a single PB in weekly competition.


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## Schmidt (Nov 14, 2014)

Nice! Now you only need to knock of 3mins to compete with the best (how do they do it?!?)


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## MarcelP (Nov 14, 2014)

Yeah.. I do not understand that eighter


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## MarcelP (Nov 14, 2014)

I have been doing little bit of Roux this week. And Color neutral is soooo hard with Roux.. I do not think I will succeed being fast with Roux. anyway.. I did an Ao100 none white/yellow average with CFOP and I am not just there jet. I got a 22,02 On one hand that is little disappointing because it proves I am not 100% CN. On the other hand, doing an avarage like this forces you to pick a cross that you would have skipped in a normal situation so it is not all that bad  

Here some (random) good solves:


Spoiler



1. 17.99 D L2 B2 U F2 R2 B2 L2 D' R2 B U2 L D' B2 U2 F2 L' U L2 
2. 20.04 B' L2 U2 B' F2 U2 R2 F2 D2 L2 B R U F L' F2 U F2 U B L'
3. 18.46 D2 F R2 B' R2 B' U2 F2 L2 D2 B' R' F2 L2 R U' F' R2 D2 B2
4. 15.74 That was a white cross  Does not count..
5. 19.34 B2 U2 L2 F2 U2 F2 R' B2 L' D B L' F D2 U' R U2 R2 F' 
6. 19.23 L D2 R' U R' B R' L2 B' D2 B2 L' F2 U2 B2 U2 L F2 B2 
7. 19.15 F2 D F R2 U' B R U R2 L' B2 D2 F2 D' L2 U R2 D' F2 D B2 
8. 16.59 Lost scramble but was PLL skip


[video=youtube_share;6G9VIVZEfNs]http://youtu.be/6G9VIVZEfNs[/video]


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## Logiqx (Nov 14, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> I have been doing little bit of Roux this week. And Color neutral is soooo hard with Roux.. I do not think I will succeed being fast with Roux.



I don't think anyone fast at Roux is fully colour neutral. I occasionally play with Roux and just go with white or yellow on the top/bottom. I do the same for methods like ZZ, Petrus, Columns and anything else which has an edge orientation step. It confuses the hell out of me if I have to block build and orient edges with other colours on the top+bottom!

p.s. Just completed my fifth timed session on 2x2x2 and I got an Ao100 of 7.97. It might be slow but then again so is my 3x3x3.


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## MarcelP (Nov 14, 2014)

Logiqx said:


> It confuses the hell out of me ...



LOL.. Exactly!! I take minutes (really) to solve with orange or red or blue on top with Roux..


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## mark49152 (Nov 14, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> So,, I did not do 5X5 for two weeks or so.. and had a single PB in weekly competition.


Nice one! I didn't practice 5x5 for over a week, then came within 0.5s of a PB with my first solve. Then for every other solve of the day I was a minute slower 

I can't do Roux - there's not enough structure in block building, for me.


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## MarcelP (Nov 14, 2014)

Well I had the same problem. But I watched Deedubs beginner method Roux videos. That helps a lot!


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## mark49152 (Nov 14, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> Well I had the same problem. But I watched Deedubs beginner method Roux videos. That helps a lot!


Yeah I watched them a while ago. Petrus's block building pages also helped a bit. But at the end of the day, elegant and efficient as Roux is, it is mismatched with my brain .


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## Logiqx (Nov 14, 2014)

Logiqx said:


> p.s. Just completed my fifth timed session on 2x2x2 and I got an Ao100 of 7.97. It might be slow but then again so is my 3x3x3.



Oooh... I just knocked by 10 seconds off my Ao5 for 4x4x4 as well.


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## MarcelP (Nov 14, 2014)

Logiqx said:


> p.s. Just completed my fifth timed session on 2x2x2 and I got an Ao100 of 7.97. It might be slow but then again so is my 3x3x3.


No, that is not slow. I average 9 - 10 seconds  


Logiqx said:


> Oooh... I just knocked by 10 seconds off my Ao5 for 4x4x4 as well.


Nice! You guys are all faster than me on 4X4.. I really should start getting more into that.


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## mark49152 (Nov 14, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> You guys are all faster than me on 4X4.. I really should start getting more into that.


Hey did you try my parity EPLLs, posted a few pages back?


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## MarcelP (Nov 14, 2014)

mark49152 said:


> Hey did you try my parity EPLLs, posted a few pages back?



You mean this post?


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## mark49152 (Nov 14, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> You mean this post?


That's the one. I'm on mobile so can't search things easily.


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## Logiqx (Nov 14, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> No, that is not slow. I average 9 - 10 seconds



I wondered what you average for 2x2x2. Sub-8 seconds was what I wanted given my current 3x3x3 times.



MarcelP said:


> Nice! You guys are all faster than me on 4X4.. I really should start getting more into that.



I'm very erratic at the moment and prone to silly mistakes. My favourite mistake is having a great solve, glancing at the timer during the OLL parity alg then ending up back at solving centres, lol.

Edit: Just knocked 1 minute off my 5x5x5 single. I'm still making do with my Shengshou which doesn't make life easy, lol.


----------



## MarcelP (Nov 14, 2014)

LOL, I did my 5X5 from weekly also with SS. I bet with my Moyu Auchuang it would have been much better times. It was in another room and I did not feel like getting up to get it


----------



## sneaklyfox (Nov 14, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> No, that is not slow. I average 9 - 10 seconds



Uh huh... on 2x2 I officially average DNF. There. Beat that.


----------



## Logiqx (Nov 14, 2014)

sneaklyfox said:


> Uh huh... on 2x2 I officially average DNF. There. Beat that.



What was the cause of three DNFs?


----------



## Schmidt (Nov 14, 2014)

She was in such a hurry that she forgot to start the timer ​(or something like that)


----------



## sneaklyfox (Nov 14, 2014)

Logiqx said:


> What was the cause of three DNFs?



Some weird timer thing. I don't know because they couldn't recreate it. I put my hand on the timer, took them off to start solving, but apparently the timer stops almost as soon as I lift my hands off (there is a rule in the regulations for if the timer stops < 0.06 or something like that then you're allowed another solve) but it was always just a bit above that (like 0.09 once). I have no idea what I could have done to cause it to stop and I couldn't recreate it myself either. Good thing I didn't care very much about 2x2 and it was the first event. After that I was deathly afraid of DNFs caused by timer. Even when my Zhanchi exploded I didn't dare DNF it but rather took a > 1:00 solve. Cuz if I had another DNF I would have gotten a DNF average and that would have been extremely stupid.


----------



## sk8erman41 (Nov 15, 2014)

<----- Happiest man on the block 
https://www.speedsolving.com/forum/showthread.php?50281-My-son-is-born!


----------



## sneaklyfox (Nov 15, 2014)

sk8erman41 said:


> <----- Happiest man on the block
> https://www.speedsolving.com/forum/showthread.php?50281-My-son-is-born!



Replied in the thread already but wanted to say again here... really happy for you!


----------



## Rocky0701 (Nov 15, 2014)

sk8erman41 said:


> <----- Happiest man on the block
> https://www.speedsolving.com/forum/showthread.php?50281-My-son-is-born!


I already replied too, but congratulations again!


----------



## mark49152 (Nov 15, 2014)

sk8erman41 said:


> <----- Happiest man on the block
> https://www.speedsolving.com/forum/showthread.php?50281-My-son-is-born!


Congrats sk8erman41! Will you be making sure he's colour neutral from the start?


----------



## Logiqx (Nov 15, 2014)

sk8erman41 said:


> <----- Happiest man on the block
> https://www.speedsolving.com/forum/showthread.php?50281-My-son-is-born!



Congrats. Time to order a small cube for small hands.


----------



## Logiqx (Nov 15, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> Nice! You guys are all faster than me on 4X4.. I really should start getting more into that.



Ahh... I found a little bit of consistency today and knocked another 7 seconds off my Ao12. It's kind of refreshing trying a different event with easier PBs. 



MarcelP said:


> LOL, I did my 5X5 from weekly also with SS. I bet with my Moyu Auchuang it would have been much better times. It was in another room and I did not feel like getting up to get it



LOL. Now that's what I call lazy. 

I ordered myself an AuChuang last night. I hope it lives up to my expectations after watching several unboxings / reviews!


----------



## MarcelP (Nov 15, 2014)

Logiqx said:


> I ordered myself an AuChuang last night. I hope it lives up to my expectations after watching several unboxings / reviews!



Oh yeah, I guarantee it. It's lovely.. very smooth. So no lock ups.. it is 200% better than my SS.


----------



## Rocky0701 (Nov 15, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> Oh yeah, I guarantee it. It's lovely.. very smooth. So no lock ups.. it is 200% better than my SS.


How's popping? That's my main concern, because I have heard that it pops a lot. Also, I got a 16.93 3x3 ao100 yesterday


----------



## MarcelP (Nov 16, 2014)

Rocky0701 said:


> How's popping? That's my main concern, because I have heard that it pops a lot. Also, I got a 16.93 3x3 ao100 yesterday



Yeah, it pops on loose tensions. But on tight tensions it does not pop more than a SS. About the 16.93..... Damn dude... That is awesome. I wonder if I will ever get there..


----------



## Rocky0701 (Nov 16, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> Yeah, it pops on loose tensions. But on tight tensions it does not pop more than a SS. About the 16.93..... Damn dude... That is awesome. I wonder if I will ever get there..


Ok, I will probably ask for one for Christmas then, I like tight tensions on my cubes anyway. My SS is good for now though, because I modded the heck out of it a couple months ago. Thanks! I didn't think I would be able to progress more after sub 20, but I keep having awesome time jumps. I don't know how far I will be able to go, sub 15 is my goal now, but I don't know how long it's going to take me. I bet you will be able to go further, I just looked out of curiosity, and a year ago your best ao100 was 24.94, so improve even half of that in the next year and you'll be sub 18.


----------



## Logiqx (Nov 16, 2014)

Oh yeah... zero 2x2x2 practice since the timed session on Friday and my Ao100 is half a second quicker.

Unfortunately my 3x3x3 times have been horrible this week. The lord giveth and the lord taketh away, lol.


----------



## sneaklyfox (Nov 16, 2014)

New PB Ao100 = 14.30

It felt like it took me forever to get here after I was sub-20.

Cube update: The Aolong took some work. After breaking it in, I disassembled it and lubed the core and pieces. It must have been pretty tight when I got it out of the box. I loosened it and it felt better. Then I loosened it some more. I'm not sure if it's loose enough yet. I might try even looser than what I have now. I can't decide between my Weilong and Aolong yet. The Weilong is really smooth and loose feeling which I love because I have a relatively light touch, but the Aolong is definitely more controllable and also has a nice feel to it but takes slightly more effort to turn (maybe can be fixed by making it super loose). Both are awesome cubes and in the last couple weeks I'm getting more fast times.

What are you guys all using for 3x3 main now?


----------



## MarcelP (Nov 16, 2014)

sneaklyfox said:


> New PB Ao100 = 14.30
> 
> It felt like it took me forever to get here after I was sub-20.
> 
> ...



Congrats on the PB! You where sub 20 in a year right? So the next 5.7 seconds took more than 2 years? Yeah that must feel like a long time.  

The AoLong is my main. It is stable and fast. I like solving my Weilong V2 also and I get same times on both. I have recently bought a 'Formula' 3X3 on Lightake and it is pretty awesome too. It could definatly become my main. It is 56 mm but way faster than my Weilong and AoLong. And I have a stickerless cube QiYi Bullfight 3x3 (which is a rebranded New Island Phoenix). That cube is also pretty awesome. Really really fast and very stable. They are both in my video's with an unboxing.


----------



## mark49152 (Nov 16, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> I have recently bought a 'Formula' 3X3 on Lightake and it is pretty awesome too. It could definatly become my main. It is 56 mm but way faster than my Weilong and AoLong. And I have a stickerless cube QiYi Bullfight 3x3 (which is a rebranded New Island Phoenix). That cube is also pretty awesome. Really really fast and very stable. They are both in my video's with an unboxing.


Wow, how did I miss those? Shame that QiYi isn't available in black. I haven't bought a new 3x3 for ages.


----------



## Logiqx (Nov 16, 2014)

sneaklyfox said:


> New PB Ao100 = 14.30



Awesome!



sneaklyfox said:


> What are you guys all using for 3x3 main now?



AoLong V1.


----------



## Rocky0701 (Nov 16, 2014)

sneaklyfox said:


> New PB Ao100 = 14.30
> 
> It felt like it took me forever to get here after I was sub-20.
> 
> ...


Wow nice! I use a WeiLong V1 because my AoLong feels too flimsy. Plus my WeiLong has been my main since I averaged like 35, it is nice and broken in and perfect tensions for me so I don't feel like switching.


----------



## mark49152 (Nov 16, 2014)

sneaklyfox said:


> What are you guys all using for 3x3 main now?


AoLong v2 main, and sometimes a WeiLong v2. Nice PB


----------



## sneaklyfox (Nov 17, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> Congrats on the PB! You where sub 20 in a year right? So the next 5.7 seconds took more than 2 years? Yeah that must feel like a long time.



I can't exactly remember, but yeah, something like that.


----------



## MarcelP (Nov 17, 2014)

mark49152 said:


> Wow, how did I miss those? Shame that QiYi isn't available in black. I haven't bought a new 3x3 for ages.



Well, NewIsland has annouched that they will make the New Phoenix also in black and white. So chances are the Bullfight will also come in Black. 



Rocky0701 said:


> ...it is nice and broken in and perfect tensions for me so I don't feel like switching.



Never change a winning combination 



sneaklyfox said:


> I can't exactly remember, but yeah, something like that.



I doubt I will ever make a 5 seconds improvement after sub 20  Right now I am completely into Roux btw. So I am not practicing CFOP anymore. Roux is great fun. Although most people become rather quickly faster with Roux after stepping from CFOp to Roux, I doubt I am one of these.. I have done millions of CFOP solves and I am not that committed anymore to so many solves. So I think becomming sub 30 with Roux will be a nice challange on it's own..


----------



## Logiqx (Nov 17, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> Right now I am completely into Roux btw. So I am not practicing CFOP anymore. Roux is great fun. Although most people become rather quickly faster with Roux after stepping from CFOp to Roux, I doubt I am one of these.. I have done millions of CFOP solves and I am not that committed anymore to so many solves. So I think becomming sub 30 with Roux will be a nice challange on it's own..



I'm interested to hear how you are approaching Roux. I like to experiment quite a bit during F2B and I don't allow myself to complete blocks with a 7-11 move CFOP alg, unless I'm 99% sure it is the best approach. There's almost always something better!

It's nice to look at the case with an open mind and look for something neat which is shorter and / or more ergonomic. I don't tend to time myself and don't plan to do so until I feel like I have a good grasp of the method. That being said, I haven't done any Roux solves for a few weeks because I've been doing other cube sizes!


----------



## MarcelP (Nov 17, 2014)

Logiqx said:


> I'm interested to hear how you are approaching Roux. I like to experiment quite a bit during F2B and I don't allow myself to complete blocks with a 7-11 move CFOP alg, unless I'm 99% sure it is the best approach. There's almost always something better!
> 
> It's nice to look at the case with an open mind and look for something neat which is shorter and / or more ergonomic. I don't tend to time myself and don't plan to do so until I feel like I have a good grasp of the method. That being said, I haven't done any Roux solves for a few weeks because I've been doing other cube sizes!



Well, I do exactly the same. On both blocks I try to do it as efficient as possible. I have watched a few Alex..5BLD-guy walkthroughs. I find them mind boggeling. I really want to learn that  I also do not time myself. I suspect my times being around 40 - 60 seconds or so.. But doing many slow solves I allready recognize hard cases and know how to make use of M slice to make an efficient block. The part that slows me down is the correcting bad edges. I have not learned all the cases but do it intuitivly. Sometimes it takes a few tries.. Also the four corners I do in two steps..All in all that is much less efficient compared to knowing all OLL's and PLL's.. but I do think it has some potential for me.. Most important for me it that, just like when I decided to go Color Neutral, it is a lot of fun.


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## sneaklyfox (Nov 17, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> I doubt I will ever make a 5 seconds improvement after sub 20  Right now I am completely into Roux btw. So I am not practicing CFOP anymore. Roux is great fun. Although most people become rather quickly faster with Roux after stepping from CFOp to Roux, I doubt I am one of these.. I have done millions of CFOP solves and I am not that committed anymore to so many solves. So I think becomming sub 30 with Roux will be a nice challange on it's own..



I play with Roux once in awhile. Also ZZ for fun. It would be nice to get sub-20 with Roux. I actually forget whether I ever reached sub-25 with Roux.


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## Logiqx (Nov 17, 2014)

It's been a good day for deliveries. I've received all my new windsurf boards for competitions next year and my AuChuang. 

I did a few solves on the AuChuang and it feels sooo nice compared to my SS! I started an Ao12 for the first time ever and after 9 solves I was averaging well over a minute faster than the SS. My neighbour knocked on the door during my tenth solve and when I returned to the computer, I deleted the time (well, so I thought) and carried on with the next solve.

Doh... I hadn't deleted the one solve. I'd deleted the whole session. WTF!

I'll try again tomorrow. I haven't got time to restart the Ao12 tonight. lol


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## MarcelP (Nov 17, 2014)

Logiqx said:


> I'd deleted the whole session. WTF!



LOL. I do stupid things like that too. For example when I post video's I want the scrambles to be in the description. This weekend I filmed an Ao12 that was very low 19.xx And when I transferred the video of my camera I resetted the session (deleting all scrambles.)ARrrgghh!


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## Schmidt (Nov 17, 2014)

sneaklyfox said:


> I actually forget whether I ever reached sub-25 with Roux.


Not in my thread


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## sneaklyfox (Nov 17, 2014)

Schmidt said:


> Not in my thread



Yeah, I just checked the Race to sub-25 and sub-30 thread... I don't think I did sub-25 Roux. So maybe I'll practice again and join the race there.

Edit: Just checked that thread again. Looks like hardly anyone is racing these days. It used to be really popular. Who wants to join me doing Roux (or something else)?


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## MarcelP (Nov 18, 2014)

I might when I am something faster  I do have little time lately to practice.


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## Schmidt (Nov 18, 2014)

sneaklyfox said:


> Who wants to join me



Or you could join everybody else in the weekly competition


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## sneaklyfox (Nov 18, 2014)

Schmidt said:


> Or you could join everybody else in the weekly competition



Ah... true... I guess I would enter 3x3, 4x4, 3x3 OH, pyraminx. I suppose I could break out my megaminx too though I haven't practiced in a long time.

Edit: There. Entered some events in weekly forum comp. Are you happy now?


----------



## MarcelP (Nov 19, 2014)

sneaklyfox said:


> Edit: There. Entered some events in weekly forum comp. Are you happy now?



LOL!! I always enter weekly competition. And when the results are up I always look for Schmidt and Gordon and the other people who post in this topic. I am glad you also decided to enter.


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## sneaklyfox (Nov 19, 2014)

I haven't thought about it in a long time so I guess it's good Schmidt brought it up. I'll look for you guys too now.


----------



## Schmidt (Nov 19, 2014)

Look down! I'm the last one in all the events I entered so far (until Marcel enters his 4x4 times )


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## Logiqx (Nov 19, 2014)

I'd not really looked at the weekly competition until now.

Maybe I'll give it a go this weekend... 2x2x2-5x5x5.


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## Rocky0701 (Nov 22, 2014)

Yeah, the weekly competition is pretty fun. I need to get back into the habit of doing it every week.


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## Logiqx (Nov 22, 2014)

Logiqx said:


> I'd not really looked at the weekly competition until now.
> 
> Maybe I'll give it a go this weekend... 2x2x2-5x5x5.



I haven't done the weekly competition but I had a good 5x5x5 session today... 12 solves, 42s improvement for single and Ao12.

The AoChuang is helping my times a lot!


----------



## Rocky0701 (Nov 23, 2014)

Logiqx said:


> I haven't done the weekly competition but I had a good 5x5x5 session today... 12 solves, 42s improvement for single and Ao12.
> 
> The AoChuang is helping my times a lot!


Nice! Since pretty much everyone in this thread has been working on 5x5 the last couple of weeks, we should do a 5x5 race thread.


----------



## MarcelP (Nov 23, 2014)

Today I had a serious case of competion hands again (as I demonstrate at the end of this video).. My solves where not really bad, but due to shaky and nervous hands I did not get times I am used to. On a brighter note, I mixed in a Roux solve. I have my first official 28 seconds Roux solve 

[video=youtube_share;NYyjbFynYIM]http://youtu.be/NYyjbFynYIM[/video]


----------



## sneaklyfox (Nov 23, 2014)

What... an official 28 seconds Roux solve? You should totally switch, haha! Even I don't always get such a good time on Roux. I want to see that video.


----------



## Logiqx (Nov 23, 2014)

Rocky0701 said:


> Nice! Since pretty much everyone in this thread has been working on 5x5 the last couple of weeks, we should do a 5x5 race thread.



I'd be up for that if you're offering to run it. 



MarcelP said:


> On a brighter note, I mixed in a Roux solve. I have my first official 28 seconds Roux solve



Wow. Well done!


----------



## Rocky0701 (Nov 24, 2014)

Logiqx said:


> I'd be up for that if you're offering to run it.
> 
> 
> 
> Wow. Well done!


Sure! I'll post it!


----------



## MarcelP (Nov 24, 2014)

sneaklyfox said:


> What... an official 28 seconds Roux solve? You should totally switch, haha! Even I don't always get such a good time on Roux. I want to see that video.



LOL yeah.. I have been doing nothing but Roux lately. That might also explain my not so good times in the competition  I did not time myself for the first two weeks but have started this week. I am averaging between 35 and 40 seconds now. (I remember the first few timed solves being around 1.20 - 1.30 so I gained a lot)  Since my second round was not good anyway I decided to do a Roux solve. But in the second roud I did not film anything (in the hope of having no pressure and doing great). At home I have been getting more and more sub 30 Roux solves. But they all depend on luck.. In the competition I did a few rotations to do a quick insert the Fridrich way.. so that was a kind of cheating. When I practice at home I do not do that but only use M slice to pair up. That is how it is supposed to be done  anyway.. Roux is easy to learn, but hard to master. Much harder than Fridrich imho because for all F2L cases are many algs available. In Roux, the block building and last 6 edges are intuitive.. So that requires lot's of practice.. I will continue for at least two months or so (like I did with Color Neutral) and then decide if I stay with Roux.



Logiqx said:


> Wow. Well done!


Thanks!


----------



## MarcelP (Nov 24, 2014)

sneaklyfox said:


> Even I don't always get such a good time on Roux. I want to see that video.



I wanted to film a sub 30 solve.. I had filmed more than 30 solves with no sub 30..LOL, but then this sub 25 came 


Spoiler



First sub 25 solve.. Very lucky with block building I guess:
Scramble: D' R2 D B2 D' L2 U R2 U L2 D R D R' D R' D' F' L2 R D 

x2 y// inspection
F2 U // 2X2X1 (2)
L' F U F' // LB (6)
U M U' R2// Very lucky 2X2X1 (10)
U' M2 U2 rw' U' rw// RB (15)
F R U R' U' F' //first step of corners (21)
U3 (LOL) R U R' F' R U R' U' R' F R2 U' R' // Orient corners (34)
M// don't know why, could have done M' just the same (35)
M' U M U M' U M// fix bad egdes (42)
U2 M' U2 M2 U2 M' // fix red/white and orange/white (48)
M2' U M2' U M' U2 M2' U2 M' U2 // Z perm (58)


[video=youtube_share;n0RP8pPuV94]http://youtu.be/n0RP8pPuV94[/video]


----------



## Logiqx (Nov 24, 2014)

Nice. I don't think I've had a sub-30 with Roux... maybe untimed.

I timed a few Roux solves at lunchtime and the best I managed was 42s. Half of that time was spent looking for pieces. lol.

Mike


----------



## TDM (Nov 24, 2014)

Nice solve! I especially like your square (U M U' R2// Very lucky 2X2X1); when I get this case I solve it a really inefficient wat. But can I suggest doing your last six edges (after EO) as solving UL/UR, and then the four remaining edges? Solving BD/BF and then the four remaining edges is slower and requires more moves. Here's what you did compared to what I would do:

You:
U2 M' U2 M2 U2 M' // fix red/white and orange/white (48)
M2' U M2' U M' U2 M2' U2 M' U2 // Z perm (58)
*16 moves*.
Me:
U' M2 // UL and UR
U M2 U2 // last four edges
*5 moves*.

It doesn't always make this much of a difference (this was quite lucky ), but it's definitely much better than doing it by solving the D layer edges first.


----------



## sneaklyfox (Nov 24, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> I wanted to film a sub 30 solve.. I had filmed more than 30 solves with no sub 30..LOL, but then this sub 25 came
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> ...



Wow, really nice. Like I said, you should totally switch, haha. I'm trying to get sub-25 on Roux. I spend a lot of time looking for pieces too.


----------



## Schmidt (Nov 24, 2014)

I dont think z perms are allowed in Roux


----------



## Rocky0701 (Nov 24, 2014)

Hey guys! I posted the 5x5 race thread, since you all have been working on 5x5, you should check it out.


----------



## Logiqx (Nov 25, 2014)

Rocky0701 said:


> Hey guys! I posted the 5x5 race thread, since you all have been working on 5x5, you should check it out.



Will do!


----------



## MarcelP (Nov 25, 2014)

Logiqx said:


> Nice. I don't think I've had a sub-30 with Roux... maybe untimed.
> 
> I timed a few Roux solves at lunchtime and the best I managed was 42s. Half of that time was spent looking for pieces. lol.
> 
> Mike



My average of the session was 38.. But had some 50+ solves 


TDM said:


> Nice solve! I especially like your square (U M U' R2// Very lucky 2X2X1); when I get this case I solve it a really inefficient wat. But can I suggest doing your last six edges (after EO) as solving UL/UR, and then the four remaining edges? Solving BD/BF and then the four remaining edges is slower and requires more moves. Here's what you did compared to what I would do:
> 
> You:
> U2 M' U2 M2 U2 M' // fix red/white and orange/white (48)
> ...


Thanks! I have yet to look into fixing bad edges. I just watched DeeDups beginner video. I have to watch to advanced video's now  Or just practise a lot..


sneaklyfox said:


> Wow, really nice. Like I said, you should totally switch, haha. I'm trying to get sub-25 on Roux. I spend a lot of time looking for pieces too.


Yeah, remember on CFOP cross is made so you do not have to look for edges there. With Roux, you should plan first block in inspection. Then only hidden place after first block is DB. So if you can not spot your pair quickly look there..



Schmidt said:


> I dont think z perms are allowed in Roux



Yeah I know, only G-perms are allowed..


----------



## Logiqx (Nov 26, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> My average of the session was 38.. But had some 50+ solves



How many Roux solves do you think you've done so far over the past few weeks? I think I've done about 200 Roux solves ever (100 since you started talking about Roux in this thread) and only starting timing myself 2 days ago. I just got a 32.65 single... I think I'll try to push down to a sub-30 average alongside my other goals.

All of a sudden, I've gotten interested in a variety of things - 2x2x2, 4x4x4, 5x5x5, OH and Roux. I was even doing the 15 puzzle the other night. Time is even more of a problem than it was when I was just doing 3x3x3, lol.


----------



## MarcelP (Nov 26, 2014)

Logiqx said:


> How many Roux solves do you think you've done so far over the past few weeks? I think I've done about 200 Roux solves ever (100 since you started talking about Roux in this thread) and only starting timing myself 2 days ago. I just got a 32.65 single... I think I'll try to push down to a sub-30 average alongside my other goals.
> 
> All of a sudden, I've gotten interested in a variety of things - 2x2x2, 4x4x4, 5x5x5, OH and Roux. I was even doing the 15 puzzle the other night. Time is even more of a problem than it was when I was just doing 3x3x3, lol.



LOL.. I know what you mean about 'Time'..

I think I have done maybe 20 - 50 solves per day. Yesterday I did an Ao12 timed and got a 38 again.. But I must say, when doing Timed Roux solves I am not really focussed yet but more paying attention doing things right. I have watched http://wafflelikescubes.webs.com/rouxmethod.htm step 4b and 4c.. Oh man.. I should have know that a month ago. This takes at least 10 moves of every solve..


----------



## Logiqx (Nov 26, 2014)

Have you seen the slow motion solves by Alex?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uqHYnEj-60g

Running at 25% of the original speed it's a lot easier to see what he is doing.


----------



## guysensei1 (Nov 26, 2014)

Is this the intro thread with the most posts?


----------



## DeeDubb (Nov 26, 2014)

Logiqx said:


> Have you seen the slow motion solves by Alex?
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uqHYnEj-60g
> 
> Running at 25% of the original speed it's a lot easier to see what he is doing.



He's on such another level, it's really hard to process some of the things he's doing even for an intermediate Roux user like me. There's a few spots where he seems to do unnecessary moves, which could be mistakes, or it could be setting up a skip that I can't see....

Marcel, not sure if you saw my walk through solve videos, but they might help you get into a more "Roux" way of thinking. Here's the playlist:

http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLajHGvYF36nRdhrzpH9bb9OwK10iYVQLG


----------



## h2f (Nov 26, 2014)

Yeah I've seen your video on YouTube and it tells me a lot how to solve a Rubik's Cube in roux way. I've made about 1000 solves and stopped for 2 months and next I was back to roux and made about 500 solves to be around 33 seconds ao100.


----------



## MarcelP (Nov 26, 2014)

DeeDubb said:


> Marcel, not sure if you saw my walk through solve videos, but they might help you get into a more "Roux" way of thinking. Here's the playlist:
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLajHGvYF36nRdhrzpH9bb9OwK10iYVQLG



Yeah, more than one time. Your video caused me to switch to the dark side.. 



h2f said:


> Yeah I've seen your video on YouTube and it tells me a lot how to solve a Rubik's Cube in roux way. I've made about 1000 solves and stopped for 2 months and next I was back to roux and made about 500 solves to be around 33 seconds ao100.



33 sounds nice to me now  I am not there yet..


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## h2f (Nov 26, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> 33 sounds nice to me now  I am not there yet..



I was trying to be CN in y2/x2 but when I switched to be only y2 my times got better. I think it's a matter of easier recognition L6E. But by the way - reading this thread was a trigger to get back to Roux.  Thanks guys.


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## sneaklyfox (Nov 28, 2014)

Are you guys doing Sunday Contest? I just got 4 G-perms in a row while doing OH.

Edit: 7 G-perms in 12 solves.


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## MarcelP (Nov 28, 2014)

sneaklyfox said:


> Are you guys doing Sunday Contest? I just got 4 G-perms in a row while doing OH.
> 
> Edit: 7 G-perms in 12 solves.



What is Sunday contest? Btw, G-perms statistically are the most appearing PLL's  At my last competition I spoke a guy who is sub 15 but does not know any of the G-perms.. LOL I feel so slow knowing all PLL's and OLL's and still averaging 20 secs..


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## Schmidt (Nov 28, 2014)

sundaycontest.com
mondaycontest.com

guess which one


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## MarcelP (Nov 28, 2014)

Schmidt said:


> sundaycontest.com
> mondaycontest.com
> 
> guess which one



Ahh, so many competitions, so little time...


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## h2f (Nov 28, 2014)

I don't know if it was noticed earlier. I use your ALG trainer for practicing many things, but in the last time I've started to learn CMLLs. And some images in CMLL trainer are wrong. I found that C4 is instead of C5 , C2 instead of C3 and B6 instead of C1. If I am right how I can fix it?


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## MarcelP (Nov 28, 2014)

h2f said:


> I don't know if it was noticed earlier. I use your ALG trainer for practicing many things, but in the last time I've started to learn CMLLs. And some images in CMLL trainer are wrong. I found that C4 is instead of C5 , C2 instead of C3 and B6 instead of C1. If I am right how I can fix it?



The program is a jar -file. If you rename the file to zip you can open it with Winzip. Then place all files of the zip in a folder. Then organise the pictures by renaming them to the correct name. The zip the files again and rename to jar.  Btw I did an Ao100 40.98 Roux today. I suspect soon to be at your 33 now that I am using no CFOP elements anymore. I have to get used to the M slice pairing. That takes most of my time now.


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## sneaklyfox (Nov 29, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> Btw I did an Ao100 40.98 Roux today. I suspect soon to be at your 33 now that I am using no CFOP elements anymore. I have to get used to the M slice pairing. That takes most of my time now.



Wow, I really have to step up my Roux now, haha.


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## h2f (Nov 29, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> The program is a jar -file. If you rename the file to zip you can open it with Winzip. Then place all files of the zip in a folder. Then organise the pictures by renaming them to the correct name. The zip the files again and rename to jar.



Oh thanks. By the way - the trainer is a great help to practice algs.



> Btw I did an Ao100 40.98 Roux today. I suspect soon to be at your 33 now that I am using no CFOP elements anymore. I have to get used to the M slice pairing. That takes most of my time now.



I'm sure you will make Ao100 sub-30 soon. I've started to learn cmlls so my times are up now. And I returned to practice 3bld and 4bld and havent done Ao100 for a week.


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## MarcelP (Nov 29, 2014)

sneaklyfox said:


> Wow, I really have to step up my Roux now, haha.



Ha.. I highly doubt it... Btw, you asked a while back what to make a video of.. How about a slow Roux walkthrough Sneakly-way?


h2f said:


> Oh thanks. By the way - the trainer is a great help to practice algs.


Thanks! Yeah it helped me a lot with OLL's and expert F2L cases.



h2f said:


> I'm sure you will make Ao100 sub-30 soon. I've started to learn cmlls so my times are up now. And I returned to practice 3bld and 4bld and havent done Ao100 for a week.



I hope so.. But I do not think it will go very fast.. One thing that nice is that I enjoy cubing 200% again.. CFOP was boring me finally.. I really do not care about the times now.


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## h2f (Nov 29, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> CFOP was boring me finally.. )




It was the same with me. I stopped Roux for 2 months and practiced CFOP because my son said: practice and you will be sube-20. But after 2 months I was only sub-25 so I got back to Roux. And I found Roux is quite good to FM. BTW in weekly competition why dont you make relays?


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## MarcelP (Nov 29, 2014)

h2f said:


> BTW in weekly competition why dont you make relays?



Just a matter of time.. I wish I could do everything every week  I think this weeks entry is my lowest numer of events ever..


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## h2f (Nov 29, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> Just a matter of time.. I wish I could do everything every week  I think this weeks entry is my lowest numer of events ever..



I know what You mean.


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## Schmidt (Nov 29, 2014)

I only cube 1 hour Tuesday evening and about 45 min Thursday afternoon. No practice, just forum competitions.


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## h2f (Dec 1, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> The program is a jar -file. If you rename the file to zip you can open it with Winzip. Then place all files of the zip in a folder. Then organise the pictures by renaming them to the correct name. The zip the files again and rename to jar.  Btw I did an Ao100 40.98 Roux today. I suspect soon to be at your 33 now that I am using no CFOP elements anymore. I have to get used to the M slice pairing. That takes most of my time now.



I found what I did - I don't know when but I just deleted one of CMLL (B6) in CMLL file algs. I put it back and now all is just correct and program works fine.


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## sneaklyfox (Dec 1, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> Ha.. I highly doubt it... Btw, you asked a while back what to make a video of.. How about a slow Roux walkthrough Sneakly-way?



Hm... is that a walkthrough like I talk about what I'm doing or is "Sneakly-way" a slow turning solve? I could do a walkthrough but I suck at Roux.


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## MarcelP (Dec 1, 2014)

sneaklyfox said:


> Hm... is that a walkthrough like I talk about what I'm doing or is "Sneakly-way" a slow turning solve? I could do a walkthrough but I suck at Roux.



Any of them would be great!


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## MarcelP (Dec 3, 2014)

Well, in order to get some more people interested in Roux, I shaved of 3 seconds of my Ao50. Nice to get progress again 



Spoiler



erated By csTimer on 2014-12-3
solves/total: 50/50

single
best: 26.94
worst: 49.12

mean of 3
current: 35.57 (σ = 8.87)
best: 34.43 (σ = 5.84)

avg of 5
current: 40.87 (σ = 6.08)
best: 34.15 (σ = 3.44)

avg of 12
current: 40.89 (σ = 4.67)
best: 36.83 (σ = 5.06)

avg of 50
current: 38.79 (σ = 4.37)
best: 38.79 (σ = 4.37)

Average: 38.79 (σ = 4.37)
Mean: 38.73



Also, there where a few sub 30 solves in there.. So I think sub 30 might be doable in short term.

Best solve of today:


Spoiler



B D R' U B U' F R F2 R L2 U F2 U2 L2 B2 U' B2 U R2 L2

x2 y //inspection
R F M' U2 L U' L' R2 U' M2 U2 F' // FB (12)
U R U' R' U R U R' M2 U' Rw U R2 U' Rw' M U' M' U2 R' U R // SB (22)
M' // Align center (1)
U' F R U R' U' F' U' // Place corners (8)
R U R' F' R U R' U' R' F R2 U' R' //Orient corners (12) 
M U' M' // Fix bad egdes (3)
M' U2 M U2 M2 U' M2 U M2 // LSE (9) = 62


[video=youtube_share;VuM_0a15auI]http://youtu.be/VuM_0a15auI[/video]


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## sneaklyfox (Dec 3, 2014)

I think you'll do better than me in the long term because my look ahead is terrible for Roux. I depend more on TPS...


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## sneaklyfox (Dec 3, 2014)

Well, here is a normal Roux solve. I don't like talking so I didn't do a walkthrough, plus I'm kind of out of batteries for my camera. And I am not good enough to do a "Sneakly-way" solve. It wasn't too bad except I couldn't find a good angle so I ended up with the camera between me and the cube.

[video=youtube_share;58IfNtrosfA]http://youtu.be/58IfNtrosfA[/video]


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## h2f (Dec 3, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> Well, in order to get some more people interested in Roux, I shaved of 3 seconds of my Ao50. Nice to get progress again



Nice. I've made some solves today and I've made first AO5 sub-30. I think we're not so far with times. I've checked my times in cstimer and I was wrong - my best AO100 is sub-35 not sub-33 as I mentioned earlier. But I think sub-30 is really close.


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## MarcelP (Dec 3, 2014)

sneaklyfox said:


> Well, here is a normal Roux solve. I don't like talking so I didn't do a walkthrough, plus I'm kind of out of batteries for my camera. And I am not good enough to do a "Sneakly-way" solve. It wasn't too bad except I couldn't find a good angle so I ended up with the camera between me and the cube.
> 
> http://youtu.be/58IfNtrosfA


Really nice! I wish I could see from a bit higher angle. Your two blocks was 17 secs. So CMLL (2 step?) plus fixing bad egdes and last 6 edges (LSE) was only 7 secs. That is freaking awesome. I need way more practice to do these last steps that fast. I think my blocks are about the same as yours..


h2f said:


> Nice. I've made some solves today and I've made first AO5 sub-30. I think we're not so far with times. I've checked my times in cstimer and I was wrong - my best AO100 is sub-35 not sub-33 as I mentioned earlier. But I think sub-30 is really close.


Ha! Nice to see I am getting closer allready..


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## TDM (Dec 3, 2014)

sneaklyfox said:


> Well, here is a normal Roux solve.


Your normal LSE is four moves? I wish I was that lucky...


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## Logiqx (Dec 3, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> Well, in order to get some more people interested in Roux, I shaved of 3 seconds of my Ao50. Nice to get progress again



I'm not exactly racing but I'm about 10-12 seconds behind your averages. I spent last week doing regular Roux solves and my good solves were getting noticeably better (typically low 40's, occasional mid 30's) but I still have occasional terrible solves which take over a minute.

I've gone back to CFOP and other events this week to get my times back. My CFOP times worsened by around 2s after a week of big cubes then a week of Roux but after 3 days practice they're back on track.

I might go back to the big cubes again over the next few days. They still need a lot of improvement...


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## h2f (Dec 3, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> Really nice! I wish I could see from a bit higher angle. Your two blocks was 17 secs. So CMLL (2 step?) plus fixing bad egdes and last 6 edges (LSE) was only 7 secs. That is freaking awesome. I need way more practice to do these last steps that fast. I think my blocks are about the same as yours..
> 
> Ha! Nice to see I am getting closer allready..



Oh, yeah. But I must share my solves between Roux and 4bld.  I was just watching yt movie with G. Jałocha, and I really want to finally solve 4bld. I've faild 17 attempts so far. Some was really close.


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## Soren333 (Dec 3, 2014)

I see this thread is still active.


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## Artic (Dec 3, 2014)

Good to see that you guys are having fun with Roux. Personally, my time for cubing each day is limited, so instead I decided to focus all my efforts on getting better at CFOP. I'm so glad I did. Recently I've managed to improve and now I'm averaging 16 seconds! Getting faster is awesome and is a real thrill. I'm going to continue with CFOP and push myself even more


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## sneaklyfox (Dec 3, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> Really nice! I wish I could see from a bit higher angle. Your two blocks was 17 secs. So CMLL (2 step?) plus fixing bad egdes and last 6 edges (LSE) was only 7 secs. That is freaking awesome. I need way more practice to do these last steps that fast. I think my blocks are about the same as yours..



Yeah, I know a higher angle would have been better. I lost a part of the camera base for attaching to my tripod. I sit next to a wall on my right so I can't easily put the tripod there either.

I think my F2B was actually worse than normal in this solve (partly because of camera obstruction) but I was lucky during LSE. I call this solve "normal" because I wasn't really trying to do slow turning or anything. Just kind of relaxed rouxing while trying to look ahead as little as I do. And also "normal" because a 24.xx solve is fairly normal for me.

Edit: Today is a good cubing day. Finally broke my PB Ao12 by about half a second (now 12.74) and got a good Roux Ao12 (22.73) with three sub-20s.


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## MarcelP (Dec 4, 2014)

Logiqx said:


> I'm not exactly racing but I'm about 10-12 seconds behind your averages. I spent last week doing regular Roux solves and my good solves were getting noticeably better (typically low 40's, occasional mid 30's) but I still have occasional terrible solves which take over a minute.
> 
> I've gone back to CFOP and other events this week to get my times back. My CFOP times worsened by around 2s after a week of big cubes then a week of Roux but after 3 days practice they're back on track.
> 
> I might go back to the big cubes again over the next few days. They still need a lot of improvement...



I do not practice FCOP anymore. I doubt my CFOP times are allready affected in a worse way. But if they do, I do not mind. I am having too much fun to stop Roux 



h2f said:


> Oh, yeah. But I must share my solves between Roux and 4bld.  I was just watching yt movie with G. Jałocha, and I really want to finally solve 4bld. I've faild 17 attempts so far. Some was really close.


If only I could succeed on a 3BLD . LOL



Artic said:


> Good to see that you guys are having fun with Roux. Personally, my time for cubing each day is limited, so instead I decided to focus all my efforts on getting better at CFOP. I'm so glad I did. Recently I've managed to improve and now I'm averaging 16 seconds! Getting faster is awesome and is a real thrill. I'm going to continue with CFOP and push myself even more


Keep it up! 16 is awesome.. Now go for the sub 15 average 



sneaklyfox said:


> Edit: Today is a good cubing day. Finally broke my PB Ao12 by about half a second (now 12.74) and got a good Roux Ao12 (22.73) with three sub-20s.



Roux is affecting you CFOP times in a good way huh? LOL.. I am impressed with your Roux skills. I hope to be at your level soon.


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## mark49152 (Dec 4, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> I do not practice FCOP anymore. I doubt my CFOP times are allready affected in a worse way. But if they do, I do not mind. I am having too much fun to stop Roux


I am so tempted to try Roux and join the fun, but I feel I've invested so much in CFOP and not yet reached my potential.

Also I haven't cubed much recently because of soreness in my elbow, so I've been playing around with cubing software instead. I'm interested in exploring whether systematic multislotting could make F2L more efficient, so am writing software to experiment with that. It's a long time since I wrote software for fun - it's almost as much fun as cubing .


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## MarcelP (Dec 4, 2014)

mark49152 said:


> I am so tempted to try Roux and join the fun, but I feel I've invested so much in CFOP and not yet reached my potential.
> 
> Also I haven't cubed much recently because of soreness in my elbow, so I've been playing around with cubing software instead. I'm interested in exploring whether systematic multislotting could make F2L more efficient, so am writing software to experiment with that. It's a long time since I wrote software for fun - it's almost as much fun as cubing .



Cool Mark. How ever, I think multi slotting is very very hard to master. I think it can be done in a slow fashion, but at 5 - 10 TPS no human could think that fast. 

About Roux, you should see playing with Roux not as abandoning CFOP. It could very well be an extention of cube fun. It could even help your CFOP times. Some people do better after taking a break from a method (or cubing in general). I suspect doing a bit Roux for a while will be nothing but good  I think Roux is better for the slow solver like me and you. I mean slow in TPS. If you learn full CMLL (42 algs of which you probably know allready 10) the move count is between 40 - 50


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## mark49152 (Dec 4, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> I think multi slotting is very very hard to master. I think it can be done in a slow fashion, but at 5 - 10 TPS no human could think that fast.


Well, you might be right, but I don't think there has been much systematic exploration of multislotting. What I am doing is just research and experimentation, and as such, it might result in a breakthrough or it might conclude that multislotting is a waste of time - but either way it's nice to have some results to share.



MarcelP said:


> I think Roux is better for the slow solver like me and you. I mean slow in TPS. If you learn full CMLL (42 algs of which you probably know allready 10) the move count is between 40 - 50


That partly contradicts what you say about multislotting. That also reduces move count but arguably at the price of slower turning. 

My interest in multislotting is in part motivated by experimentation with blockbuilding about a year ago. I find blockbuilding difficult because there's too much freedom. What I'd like to do with multislotting is improve efficiency of F2L towards that of block building, while retaining the structured, repetitive and stepwise characteristics of F2L.


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## supercavitation (Dec 4, 2014)

mark49152 said:


> I find blockbuilding difficult because there's too much freedom.



I'm sure you've heard this a dozen times, but speaking as someone who used to think the same way, block building is really hard at first, but you get used to it after a while (It took me a couple of days where I just sat down for 8 hours and practiced, plus 3 months using ZZ), and then it gets faster, and it cuts move count down significantly. I'd tend to agree with Marcel, in this case, about Roux.


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## mark49152 (Dec 4, 2014)

supercavitation said:


> block building is really hard at first, but you get used to it after a while.....and then it gets faster, and it cuts move count down significantly


There's no question block building is more efficient, but the rankings suggest that this efficiency isn't worth the reduced TPS due to extra thinking or looking (which is why I'm interested to explore an alternative that retains the repetitive, stepwise structure of F2L while improving its efficiency).


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## sneaklyfox (Dec 4, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> Roux is affecting you CFOP times in a good way huh? LOL.. I am impressed with your Roux skills. I hope to be at your level soon.



Maybe it is. I seem to be having a good cubing run these last couple days. Both CFOP and Roux. Just now I did a bunch of Roux solves. Doing pretty good. I think I will easily graduate sub-25 in the sub-25/30 race thread soon. Then I went back to doing CFOP solves and was doing pretty good (three 12.xx in an Ao5). Then the next scramble I saw immediately a pair in first block of Roux. Usually I automatically just look for cross edges for a CFOP solve, but after the Roux session I changed what I would look for. It looked pretty good so I decided I would do a Roux solve instead and totally blew my PB single Roux solve with a shockingly good 13.79. CFOP is still my main method but Roux is fun.


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## h2f (Dec 4, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> If only I could succeed on a 3BLD . LOL



If only could be sub-20 ao100.


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## MarcelP (Dec 4, 2014)

mark49152 said:


> I find blockbuilding difficult because there's too much freedom.



I agree. That is the hardest part of Roux. But.. I have been practicing mainly blocks for the last few weeks and it gets easier. I think I could make a video for you where you should be up and running making much better blocks in a short time. I remember it took me 20 seconds to make a cross. Now we do cross + 1 in less than 5 seconds. It all comes down to practice.. My blocks where 30+ seconds at first. Now well below 18 seconds.



mark49152 said:


> There's no question block building is more efficient, but the rankings suggest that this efficiency isn't worth the reduced TPS due to extra thinking or looking



I think the rankings are the way they are because 99% of the cubers use CFOP. I think if Alexander has a good day he might be number 1  



sneaklyfox said:


> It looked pretty good so I decided I would do a Roux solve instead and totally blew my PB single Roux solve with a shockingly good 13.79. CFOP is still my main method but Roux is fun.



What? Wow.. That is incredible. Maybe you should switch of main method


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## sneaklyfox (Dec 4, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> What? Wow.. That is incredible. Maybe you should switch of main method



Yeah, it wasn't even that lucky or anything special. I think maybe I was just in the zone. I do want to be sub-20 with Roux so I will keep practicing it.


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## mark49152 (Dec 4, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> I think the rankings are the way they are because 99% of the cubers use CFOP. I think if Alexander has a good day he might be number 1


True, but that doesn't contradict my assertion that the rankings suggest a net disadvantage to Roux. I assume that many of those fast cubers have tried Roux or at least considered it, and decided it doesn't work for them. If the efficiency advantage was really such a no-brainer, we'd see a lot more top cubers switching. Those guys are smart enough to learn all sorts of amazing tricks and huge alg sets, and I'm sure they would leap on Roux if they thought there was a chance it would make them faster.

Sure Alex is fast, but a sample of one doesn't prove anything. Who knows how much faster he'd be if he used CFOP 

Having said that, I feel bad making negative comments about Roux because I do think it's a really ingenious method, and of course great fun .


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## MarcelP (Dec 4, 2014)

mark49152 said:


> True, but that doesn't contradict my assertion that the rankings suggest a net disadvantage to Roux. I assume that many of those fast cubers have tried Roux or at least considered it, and decided it doesn't work for them. If the efficiency advantage was really such a no-brainer, we'd see a lot more top cubers switching. Those guys are smart enough to learn all sorts of amazing tricks and huge alg sets, and I'm sure they would leap on Roux if they thought there was a chance it would make them faster.
> 
> Sure Alex is fast, but a sample of one doesn't prove anything. Who knows how much faster he'd be if he used CFOP
> 
> Having said that, I feel bad making negative comments about Roux because I do think it's a really ingenious method, and of course great fun .



I am on a Facebook group that have some of the fastest Roux solves in the world in there. They say that most CFOP solvers (in the 25 - 20 range) that switch to Roux are quickly quickly at their CFOP times and better.  I trust they are not lying about it. I see it like this. Any new stuff in cubing is hard. It took me two weeks to get my normal beginner method times when I started using F2L in CFOP. It took me two months to get my white cross times when I switched to color neutral. It might take me a year to get my CFOP times with Roux. But it wil be worth it. sub 30 is my first goal. I should be able to get that in a matter of weeks.. If I reach 30 -25 easily, then I will learn CMLL. 



mark49152 said:


> Those guys are smart enough to learn all sorts of amazing tricks and huge alg sets, and I'm sure they would leap on Roux if they thought there was a chance it would make them faster.



The hard part of Roux is that it is without tricks and huge alg sets. It comes down to be good at block building and be very very good at sticker recognition in the last 6 edges..


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## sneaklyfox (Dec 4, 2014)

Actually, when I first considered the methods and tried them out, the idea of Roux appealed to me most. I thought that it would be the fastest eventually. I decided to use CFOP as my main because I already knew LBL so it wasn't hard to learn and also I'm not that good at M-slices. I mean, it is ok with my dominant hand but I don't really use my left hand for M-slices. Also, I hate M moves. M' is no problem.


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## MarcelP (Dec 4, 2014)

sneaklyfox said:


> Actually, when I first considered the methods and tried them out, the idea of Roux appealed to me most. I thought that it would be the fastest eventually. I decided to use CFOP as my main because I already knew LBL so it wasn't hard to learn and also I'm not that good at M-slices. I mean, it is ok with my dominant hand but I don't really use my left hand for M-slices. Also, I hate M moves. M' is no problem.



I use r' R for M and simetimes push down with right index finger it is in spot.


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## MarcelP (Dec 4, 2014)

If you look at this you must be thinking 'how hard can it be?'.. LOL Pure magic these solves..

[video=youtube_share;rmX9YWKbPaE]http://youtu.be/rmX9YWKbPaE[/video]


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## GuRoux (Dec 4, 2014)

this is the video that inspired me to switch to roux.


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## Rocky0701 (Dec 4, 2014)

Wow! That video is amazing. Maybe after I reach some big cube goals I will start messing around with roux.


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## Artic (Dec 4, 2014)

That's pretty good, but I prefer this.


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## MarcelP (Dec 5, 2014)

LOL... both are inhuman video's...

EDIT: is non-human is better way to say?


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## h2f (Dec 5, 2014)

I've joined a Roux group on FB. There's some intresting stuff there. Now I'm gonna to work on my first and second block.

Both videos are awsome.


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## MarcelP (Dec 5, 2014)

Okay Mark,

Here you go. Three very short video's that might be helpfull at block building

Left block part 1
[video=youtube_share;0gnVdL2ovHs]http://youtu.be/0gnVdL2ovHs?list=UUIXTiyCxjMTqLy2P_gV5Vxw[/video]

Left block part 2
[video=youtube_share;Lj8m8aHbqY4]http://youtu.be/Lj8m8aHbqY4[/video]

Right block
[video=youtube_share;G1zso76MQfE]http://youtu.be/G1zso76MQfE[/video]


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## sneaklyfox (Dec 5, 2014)

Here are some of my thoughts and approaches. Not necessarily better, but maybe you could learn some different moves to doing the same thing.

Part 1 - all last pair cases:
1:16 U F U' r' F
2:11 U B U' B'
2:24 M2 U' R B2
2:53 U2 R' F (R r') F

If you like this, I can do some more...


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## MarcelP (Dec 5, 2014)

sneaklyfox said:


> Here are some of my thoughts and approaches. Not necessarily better, but maybe you could learn some different moves to doing the same thing.
> 
> Part 1 - all last pair cases:
> 1:16 U F U' r' F
> ...



Yes please! The last one is very cool..


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## Logiqx (Dec 5, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> Videos...



Those made for a nice watch.

Do you have any colour neutrality when solving on a normal (non-training) cube? I've been using white or yellow on D and just start with whatever looks easiest. I kind of find it easier than full neutrality in CFOP as I still revert to white / yellow when there isn't an obvious cross on the other colours. Alex uses the same approach in his Ao12 so I'll stick with it in my Roux solves. 

During the last pair of the second block I enjoy playing with Roux-specific solutions like r U' M U R' and R U' M' U R'. I liked your solution to the equivalent of F2L case 24 as it's better than mine. Thanks!

For F2L case 17 you used 5 moves to pair up (ignoring the "ooops") but it might be faster to modify the standard CFOP alg. e.g. R U2 R' U' M.


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## sneaklyfox (Dec 6, 2014)

I finally got to watch part 2 and part 3. All in all very nice videos. I was thinking I should do that... have a cube with the stickers off so I can switch in pieces to make it easier to see and then maybe do some walk through Roux stuff like you did.

Part 3
1:42 That F2L case. You don't do sexy move 3 times?
3:05 Love that. I just learned something from you. 
3:26 I think you mean to do r instead of M' R
3:42 Oh yeah, why didn't I think of that? I need to start doing these.

Edit: By the way, I also normally use the same colour scheme (blue on left, white on bottom) that you do but I think I should change this before I get set on one colour. CN is easier when you're slower. I've tried various things and I think I might be able to do anything without too much difficulty as long as white or yellow is on the bottom. That might leave too many blocks to choose from though. So either I would cut down by only have blue/green on left/right or only doing white on bottom instead of yellow. Roux has so many options...

Edit 2:
1:42 I took a page out of your book. Why not U2 r U r' U r U' r'
For fingertricking... with the corner piece already in back left, I have thumbs in home position (on front face) and use the back of the left pointer to flick the first U.


----------



## MarcelP (Dec 6, 2014)

Logiqx said:


> Those made for a nice watch.
> 
> Do you have any colour neutrality when solving on a normal (non-training) cube? I've been using white or yellow on D and just start with whatever looks easiest. I kind of find it easier than full neutrality in CFOP as I still revert to white / yellow when there isn't an obvious cross on the other colours. Alex uses the same approach in his Ao12 so I'll stick with it in my Roux solves.
> 
> ...



I have tried dual color neutral with blue on left, but even that is too confusing with fixing bad edges. Also you RU and LU are different colors then. So for now I am single color and single orientation. About the F2L case 17, yeah that is a better alg. I need to use that more often 



sneaklyfox said:


> I finally got to watch part 2 and part 3. All in all very nice videos. I was thinking I should do that... have a cube with the stickers off so I can switch in pieces to make it easier to see and then maybe do some walk through Roux stuff like you did.



Yes! That sounds great..



sneaklyfox said:


> Part 3
> 1:42 That F2L case. You don't do sexy move 3 times?



No, never. When I had no lookahead the sexy move 3 times was too fast for me. The way I did it (and still do) gave me a better look into other pieces 


sneaklyfox said:


> 3:05 Love that. I just learned something from you.


If anyone got anything from these video's my mission is accomplished. I am glad there was something for you 



sneaklyfox said:


> 3:26 I think you mean to do r instead of M' R


LOL..


sneaklyfox said:


> 3:42 Oh yeah, why didn't I think of that? I need to start doing these.


Yeah, I am cool..



sneaklyfox said:


> Edit: By the way, I also normally use the same colour scheme (blue on left, white on bottom) that you do but I think I should change this before I get set on one colour. CN is easier when you're slower. I've tried various things and I think I might be able to do anything without too much difficulty as long as white or yellow is on the bottom. That might leave too many blocks to choose from though. So either I would cut down by only have blue/green on left/right or only doing white on bottom instead of yellow. Roux has so many options...
> 
> Edit 2:
> 1:42 I took a page out of your book. Why not U2 r U r' U r U' r'
> For fingertricking... with the corner piece already in back left, I have thumbs in home position (on front face) and use the back of the left pointer to flick the first U.


----------



## Logiqx (Dec 6, 2014)

sneaklyfox said:


> Part 3
> 1:42 That F2L case. You don't do sexy move 3 times?



Mine is U2 (R U r') U (r U' R')



sneaklyfox said:


> 3:05 Love that. I just learned something from you.



That's the one I liked... good find. 



sneaklyfox said:


> 3:42 Oh yeah, why didn't I think of that? I need to start doing these.



That's one I found as well. 



MarcelP said:


> I have tried dual color neutral with blue on left, but even that is too confusing with fixing bad edges. Also you RU and LU are different colors then. So for now I am single color and single orientation.



I think it's worth it for the easy start. It allows you to use absolutely any pre-formed pair and 2x2x1 is usually 4 moves or less.

I don't find it a problem during L6E but you do need to make a mental note of what pieces are going to be in UL and UR so that you can keep one in the D layer after step 4a. The one pitfall is that I sometimes do mixed blocks (pseudo blocks?) by accident and that confuses me during CP. It doesn't happen often but it could be an advantage in the future!



MarcelP said:


> 1:42 I took a page out of your book. Why not U2 r U r' U r U' r'



Hehe... see above.


----------



## mark49152 (Dec 6, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> Okay Mark,
> 
> Here you go. Three very short video's that might be helpfull at block building


Nice videos, thanks Marcel. Have you seen Petrus's block building tricks? http://lar5.com/cube/blox.html


----------



## MarcelP (Dec 6, 2014)

mark49152 said:


> Nice videos, thanks Marcel. Have you seen Petrus's block building tricks? http://lar5.com/cube/blox.html



No, I haven't. I will check it out. Thanks


----------



## MarcelP (Dec 6, 2014)

I have made a handy Roux short cut document for the hard second block cases:

Check it out here.


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## h2f (Dec 6, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> I have made a handy Roux short cut document for the hard second block cases:
> 
> Check it out here.



Great job. Thanks. I had a problem with case 2.


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## MarcelP (Dec 6, 2014)

h2f said:


> Great job. Thanks. I had a problem with case 2.



OK! Np.. There will follow more cases.. but making documents like this take away much cubing time.. LOL


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## h2f (Dec 6, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> OK! Np.. There will follow more cases.. but making documents like this take away much cubing time.. LOL



I really appreciate it.  Case 10 is still the problem. I'll look for a shorter way of doing it. But maybe tomorrow - now I am to tired after the job. I work at the univeristy and had day full of lessons. I'm exhausted. 

Edit: 
1) r' M U M' R U2 r' u r or 
2) R' M' U M2 R U2 r' u r

Both for case 10.


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## MarcelP (Dec 6, 2014)

h2f said:


> I really appreciate it.  Case 10 is still the problem. I'll look for a shorter way of doing it. But maybe tomorrow - now I am to tired after the job. I work at the univeristy and had day full of lessons. I'm exhausted.
> 
> Edit:
> 1) r' M U M' R U2 r' u r or
> ...



Nice! Only your u should be U'


----------



## GuRoux (Dec 6, 2014)

case 8: U R U M' U R' 
case 10: r' U2 r U (M r) U' R
case 11: M U' M' r U r'


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## MarcelP (Dec 6, 2014)

GuRoux said:


> case 8: U R U M' U R'
> case 10: r' U2 r U (M r) U' R
> case 11: M U' M' r U r'


Awesome.. No wonder you are sub 10 with Roux  I will update the document tomorrow. Thnx


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## GuRoux (Dec 6, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> Awesome.. No wonder you are sub 10 with Roux  I will update the document tomorrow. Thnx



thanks. i'll keep looking at your doc to see if any new cases come up. how did you make the graphics?


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## TDM (Dec 6, 2014)

Marcel, do you know about visualcube? It's a really easy way to make images.


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## MarcelP (Dec 6, 2014)

TDM said:


> Marcel, do you know about visualcube? It's a really easy way to make images.


No, I did not.. Will look into it


GuRoux said:


> thanks. i'll keep looking at your doc to see if any new cases come up. how did you make the graphics?



With Paint.


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## mark49152 (Dec 6, 2014)

TDM said:


> Marcel, do you know about visualcube? It's a really easy way to make images.


Yeah Visualcube is really cool. That's how I did the graphics for my multislotting post. No way could I use Paint to do all 96 cases - I just wrote a program to generate 96 URLs for Visualcube .


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## sneaklyfox (Dec 6, 2014)

Logiqx said:


> Mine is U2 (R U r') U (r U' R')



Yeah, but I think using r instead of R is easier for the grip. Don't have to think about changing from normal to wide turns.


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## h2f (Dec 6, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> Nice! Only your u should be U'



lol Right
and i guess better one r' U2 r U r' M U' r


----------



## GuRoux (Dec 6, 2014)

h2f said:


> lol Right
> and i guess better one r' U2 r U r' M U' r



though i did present this alg, the cfop way is a little easier for me: R' U' R U2 R' U' R U R' U' R


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## MarcelP (Dec 6, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> No, I did not.. Will look into it
> 
> 
> With Paint.



Yeah baby"

It worked..

EDIT: Only I want blue on left block??


----------



## Logiqx (Dec 6, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> I have made a handy Roux short cut document for the hard second block cases:
> 
> Check it out here.



I started doing the same thing earlier this week... adapting my F2L notes. I won't guarantee this is free of typos since it is still WIP. 

http://mikeg.me.uk/cubing/Roux/F2B.zip

The other groups of cases (i.e. edge / corner in slot) haven't been updated yet. I've just scribbled down my F2B algs on the F2L printouts.


----------



## Logiqx (Dec 6, 2014)

sneaklyfox said:


> Yeah, but I think using r instead of R is easier for the grip. Don't have to think about changing from normal to wide turns.



I agree about the grip. I'm slightly torn between writing algs in their pure form or execution form in the cases where I use r instead of R.


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## h2f (Dec 6, 2014)

GuRoux said:


> though i did present this alg, the cfop way is a little easier for me: R' U' R U2 R' U' R U R' U' R



I posted it without reading your post, becasue I was on mobile. But agree - I think CFOP way is better.


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## MarcelP (Dec 7, 2014)

Logiqx said:


> I started doing the same thing earlier this week... adapting my F2L notes. I won't guarantee this is free of typos since it is still WIP.
> 
> http://mikeg.me.uk/cubing/Roux/F2B.zip
> 
> The other groups of cases (i.e. edge / corner in slot) haven't been updated yet. I've just scribbled down my F2B algs on the F2L printouts.



I can not open the Word document in the zip?


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## Logiqx (Dec 7, 2014)

Weird. Office 2008 format.

I am out today but I'll check it tonight if you still have trouble.


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## MarcelP (Dec 7, 2014)

GuRoux said:


> case 10: r' U2 r U (M *r*) U' R



case 10: r' U2 r U (M *r'*) U' R


----------



## MarcelP (Dec 7, 2014)

Logiqx said:


> Weird. Office 2008 format.
> 
> I am out today but I'll check it tonight if you still have trouble.



Ah that explains it. I have Office 2007  I can open it with Google on line (after I mailed it to my gmail account). Awesome stuff man! Can I add you cases to my file? I share my file at the Roux facebook group.

EDIT: Oh man. this clearly shows how certain cases are being done the right way. Many of these cases I still do slightly different (but less efficient)

Like 

case 10: U (M’ U’ M2) (r U R’) (yours)

mine: U' M U' M2 U2 Rw U Rw''


Case 9: M’ U M’ r U’ R’ Nice!


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## Logiqx (Dec 7, 2014)

Sure. Good to share.


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## MarcelP (Dec 7, 2014)

I did an Ao5 today with normal Fridrich.. Man, looking ahead is soooo easy after doing nothing but Roux.. I finished of with:

5. *14.61* R L U R' F B' R D U R F2 U L' D F2 R L D' R2 B D2 R U L U2 

x2 y2// inspection
R' F D2 L' // cross (4)
y R U' R' // 1 F2L (4)
y U R U' R' // 2 F2L (5)
y U2 R U' R' U2 R U' R' // 3 F2L (9)
U' R' U2 R U2 R' U R // 4 F2L (8)
R U R' U' r R' U R U' r' // OLL (10)
F R U' R' U' R U R' F' R U R' U' R' F R F' // Y-PERM (11)

51 Moves is only 3.5 TPS


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## Rocky0701 (Dec 7, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> I did an Ao5 today with normal Fridrich.. Man, looking ahead is soooo easy after doing nothing but Roux.. I finished of with:
> 
> 5. *14.61* R L U R' F B' R D U R F2 U L' D F2 R L D' R2 B D2 R U L U2
> 
> ...


Nice! Are you going to fully switch to roux, or just do both? I think it's awesome that you're doing roux, but I don't think you should let you CFOP go bad either. If you just did an ao12 a week of CFOP you wouldn't improve, but at least it wouldn't get worse and you would maintain your speed.


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## MarcelP (Dec 7, 2014)

Rocky0701 said:


> Nice! Are you going to fully switch to roux, or just do both? I think it's awesome that you're doing roux, but I don't think you should let you CFOP go bad either. If you just did an ao12 a week of CFOP you wouldn't improve, but at least it wouldn't get worse and you would maintain your speed.



Well, my focus is Roux now. If I can get sub 30 in reasonable time and maybe get my CFOP times within 6 months or so I might stick with Roux. I would use CFOP only for big cubes then. It seems a lot of waste learning 57 OLL's and 21 PLL's and not using them he? LOL.... If it turns out I can not get below 30 seconds or so I will go back to CFOP. Right now I am a bit bored with CFOP. And doing something new like finding out all the hard 2nd block cases really makes me enjoy cubing a lot.


----------



## MarcelP (Dec 7, 2014)

Logiqx said:


> I started doing the same thing earlier this week... adapting my F2L notes. I won't guarantee this is free of typos since it is still WIP.
> 
> http://mikeg.me.uk/cubing/Roux/F2B.zip
> 
> The other groups of cases (i.e. edge / corner in slot) haven't been updated yet. I've just scribbled down my F2B algs on the F2L printouts.



some feedback 

for 9: M2 U ....
for 13: U2 M2 U' ....
for 11: U' M2 U2 ....
for 8: r U2 M2 U' r'
for 12: r U2 M2 U2 M' U' r'
for 10: U' R' U R U R U R'
for 14: U' R U' R U R U R'


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## Rocky0701 (Dec 7, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> Well, my focus is Roux now. If I can get sub 30 in reasonable time and maybe get my CFOP times within 6 months or so I might stick with Roux. I would use CFOP only for big cubes then. It seems a lot of waste learning 57 OLL's and 21 PLL's and not using them he? LOL.... If it turns out I can not get below 30 seconds or so I will go back to CFOP. Right now I am a bit bored with CFOP. And doing something new like finding out all the hard 2nd block cases really makes me enjoy cubing a lot.


Ok, so you haven't fully gone to the dark side yet. Haha, JK roux is awesome. My main focus now is 6x6 because I just got my first one a couple of days ago. I have only done about 10 solves, but my PB is 5:05


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## mark49152 (Dec 7, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> 51 Moves is only 3.5 TPS


Nice solve - but it's 57 moves. That Y perm is 17. You're not as slow as you think


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## MarcelP (Dec 7, 2014)

mark49152 said:


> Nice solve - but it's 57 moves. That Y perm is 17. You're not as slow as you think



LOL.. When I copied the alg from the wiki (to lazy to do it with reconstruct) I saw 14 moves some where. I should have checked 



Rocky0701 said:


> Ok, so you haven't fully gone to the dark side yet. Haha, JK roux is awesome. My main focus now is 6x6 because I just got my first one a couple of days ago. I have only done about 10 solves, but my PB is 5:05



Nice!! I take half an hour on 6X6 



sneaklyfox said:


> Edit: By the way, I also normally use the same colour scheme (blue on left, white on bottom) that you do but I think I should change this before I get set on one colour. CN is easier when you're slower. I've tried various things and I think I might be able to do anything without too much difficulty as long as white or yellow is on the bottom. That might leave too many blocks to choose from though. So either I would cut down by only have blue/green on left/right or only doing white on bottom instead of yellow. Roux has so many options...



I started Yellow/White neutral today and it worked out just fine. No problems with fixing bad egdes. Also, I can start with any color as left block now. My times improved with 2 seconds in a matter of 3 days


----------



## h2f (Dec 7, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> I started Yellow/White neutral today and it worked out just fine. No problems with fixing bad egdes. Also, I can start with any color as left block now. My times improved with 2 seconds in a matter of 3 days



I've started with x2/y2 neutral but it was too hard, so I did only y2 neutral. Sometimes I do x2 neutral and it's quite easy. I think this week i will do x2/y2 neutral. They said in Roux thread that it's enough to be neutral this way. And many thanks for making documents for you and Logiqx.


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## GuRoux (Dec 7, 2014)

h2f said:


> I've started with x2/y2 neutral but it was too hard, so I did only y2 neutral. Sometimes I do x2 neutral and it's quite easy. I think this week i will do x2/y2 neutral. They said in Roux thread that it's enough to be neutral this way. And many thanks for making documents for you and Logiqx.



i'm also y2 neutral. i'm going to start trying to be x2y2 too, or at least good enough at it to use it about 20% of the time.


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## sneaklyfox (Dec 8, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> some feedback
> for 12: r U2 M2 U2 M' U' r'



for 12: R U2 M2 U R'


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## Logiqx (Dec 8, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> some feedback
> 
> for 9: M2 U ....
> for 13: U2 M2 U' ....
> ...



Finally... a chance to look at your cases and figure out the typos. 

9, 13, 11 - how did I miss those... thanks!
8 - nice find, thanks
12 - should be r U2 M2 U2 M U r', potentially longer than my solution if the U2 can be skipped?
10 - should be U' R U R' U R U R', I think this is my natural CFOP instinct
14 - should be U' R U' R' U R U R', ditto

I've updated my document. Let me know if you find any other optimisations.


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## Logiqx (Dec 8, 2014)

I decided to find the Facebook group you mentioned a while back.


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## MarcelP (Dec 8, 2014)

Logiqx said:


> Finally... a chance to look at your cases and figure out the typos.



These where the feedback in the Roux group (as you allready found out  ) Not mine. Wish I was that good.. LOL


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## h2f (Dec 9, 2014)

I was close to sub-22 (21.91) on that scramble: F2 U2 R2 B2 D' B2 F2 D' L2 D' L2 R' D2 F L U2 R' B' L' D' B2
LOL

Reconstruction (it was something like that):
y' // inspection
r D' r' B' // FB
r2 U' R U R2 U' R' U' M' U2 R' U R// SB
F R' F' R U R U' R'//
U' R U R' F' R U R' U' R' F R2 U' R' // J perm
U M' // just luck (I sometimes forget to make white/yellow center on top before cmll)
U M U2 M // luck again

Lots of luck

alg.cubing.net


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## MarcelP (Dec 9, 2014)

h2f said:


> I was close to sub-22 (21.91) on that scramble: F2 U2 R2 B2 D' B2 F2 D' L2 D' L2 R' D2 F L U2 R' B' L' D' B2
> LOL
> 
> Reconstruction (it was something like that):
> ...



Nice! How is your improvement going with Roux? Do you think it is easy to get your CFOP times at a certain moment? Or do you think it is harder to improve with Roux?


----------



## h2f (Dec 9, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> Nice! How is your improvement going with Roux? Do you think it is easy to get your CFOP times at a certain moment? Or do you think it is harder to improve with Roux?



I belive I am slowly improving but couldn't make ao50 in last days. I do slow solves and try to recognize CMLLs but in speedsolve I use 2-look cmll. I think it would be quite easy to get my cfop times, but notice I am sub-25 (see signature). But it needs more practice and time. I hope Roux is easier for me.That's why I switched There's no rotations or mirrors etc. and I'm free making FB and it's easier for me than making cross in cfop. Thats why I think it's easier. I have a problem with cmll recognitions (must practice it more). And this stage is harder for me. If I can compare it to OLLs, OLLs are much easier. But LSE on the other way is not such big deal. 

Today's ao12 in race to sub-30 thread: 30.96. And next pb in Roux: 20.88.


----------



## Schmidt (Dec 9, 2014)

I'm the best (for now )


----------



## MarcelP (Dec 10, 2014)

h2f said:


> Today's ao12 in race to sub-30 thread: 30.96. And next pb in Roux: 20.88.



Awesome, you inspire me to continue with Roux, My best Ao100 is 36.xx 


Schmidt said:


> I'm the best (for now )


Ah, you where the first entry? LOL..


----------



## sk8erman41 (Dec 10, 2014)

mark49152 said:


> I'm interested in exploring whether systematic multislotting could make F2L more efficient, so am writing software to experiment with that. It's a long time since I wrote software for fun - it's almost as much fun as cubing .



Mark, have you seen this thread before? It has some awesome F2L multislotting tricks....
[thread=24952]F2L and lookahead guide, NOT a video[/thread]


----------



## h2f (Dec 10, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> Awesome, you inspire me to continue with Roux, My best Ao100 is 36.xx



Thanks, but this thread is inspiring me. So it looks like you inspire me. 

And today's ao100 33.92.


----------



## mark49152 (Dec 10, 2014)

sk8erman41 said:


> Mark, have you seen this thread before? It has some awesome F2L multislotting tricks....
> [thread=24952]F2L and lookahead guide, NOT a video[/thread]


Yeah that's a great thread. Rowan writes great, insightful posts on F2L and is one of the people that have inspired me to keep plugging away at multislotting.


----------



## MarcelP (Dec 11, 2014)

h2f said:


> Thanks, but this thread is inspiring me. So it looks like you inspire me.
> 
> And today's ao100 33.92.



Nice! I do think I could be faster with Roux eventually than I would have gotten with CFOP. Roux is so much more efficient. The problem is, becomming efficient. When I do first two blocks the hard core CFOP way (meaning many rotions and use inserts from F2L) all my ' Roux' solves are sub 30. Doing it the effiecient way takes up a lot of my solve. I do feel however if I would be more experienced in my times would be much better. I only have 15 - 30 minutes per day to practice. I feel that if I would have some more I would be sub 30 very soon. Right now I am focussing on becomming x2, y, y' y2 neutral. I am experiencing a lot of problems inserting a pair flipped only because (when you make a blue/yellow block red is in B, when you make blue/white block, red is on F. With CFOP when insterting you look at centers. With Roux you can not look at centers since only L en R center are in correct spot. I hope that with a little perseverence I will get used to it and do not have think about it in a solve. Right now I have to really pay attention with inserting. On the brighter side, being color neutral like this gives you much much more easy first bloks. I mean 4 - 8 moves.. On single color, single orientation I get first blocks of 20 15 - 20 moves..



mark49152 said:


> Yeah that's a great thread. Rowan writes great, insightful posts on F2L and is one of the people that have inspired me to keep plugging away at multislotting.


If I was not into Roux now I would be all over that.  I have seen people demonstrate it at competitions. But then, these guys cube 5 year plus...


----------



## h2f (Dec 11, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> Nice! I do think I could be faster with Roux eventually than I would have gotten with CFOP. Roux is so much more efficient. The problem is, becomming efficient. When I do first two blocks the hard core CFOP way (meaning many rotions and use inserts from F2L) all my ' Roux' solves are sub 30. Doing it the effiecient way takes up a lot of my solve. I do feel however if I would be more experienced in my times would be much better. I only have 15 - 30 minutes per day to practice. I feel that if I would have some more I would be sub 30 very soon. Right now I am focussing on becomming x2, y, y' y2 neutral. I am experiencing a lot of problems inserting a pair flipped only because (when you make a blue/yellow block red is in B, when you make blue/white block, red is on F. With CFOP when insterting you look at centers. With Roux you can not look at centers since only L en R center are in correct spot. I hope that with a little perseverence I will get used to it and do not have think about it in a solve. Right now I have to really pay attention with inserting. On the brighter side, being color neutral like this gives you much much more easy first bloks. I mean 4 - 8 moves.. On single color, single orientation I get first blocks of 20 15 - 20 moves...



I know what you mean, but I am wondering why it's not a big problem for me. And I think this is because of 3bld. I mean I practise 3bld for 6-8 months and when you solve your solve looks like: setup - alg (in OP Ja, Jb, T or Y; in M2 just M2) - undo setup. It is something similiar in Roux: you do some moves like setup and some just doing moves. It's the way I think about it. And 3bld improves your imagination skill which is usefull when you do first block. I can see an influence here. 

Yesterday I've filmed ao5 with my mobile: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xfLfR24YPmo&list=UUAOQlshoDZ8rYCYe-6mqjhw


----------



## MarcelP (Dec 11, 2014)

h2f said:


> I know what you mean, but I am wondering why it's not a big problem for me. And I think this is because of 3bld. I mean I practise 3bld for 6-8 months and when you solve your solve looks like: setup - alg (in OP Ja, Jb, T or Y; in M2 just M2) - undo setup. It is something similiar in Roux: you do some moves like setup and some just doing moves. It's the way I think about it. And 3bld improves your imagination skill which is usefull when you do first block. I can see an influence here.
> 
> Yesterday I've filmed ao5 with my mobile: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xfLfR24YPmo&list=UUAOQlshoDZ8rYCYe-6mqjhw



Very nice! Your LSE is twice as fast as mine. In fact I think my first two blocks are just as fast as yours (17 - 20 secs), but I take another 15-20 secs for LSE.. I will film a few solves tomorrow to investigate.. I just did my first 12 solves of this day:



Spoiler



Generated By csTimer on 2014-12-11
solves/total: 12/12

single
best: 29.33
worst: 42.35

mean of 3
current: 36.84 (σ = 4.77)
best: 32.80 (σ = 4.83)

avg of 5
current: 37.01 (σ = 2.41)
best: 32.99 (σ = 4.64)

avg of 12
current: 36.43 (σ = 3.98)
best: 36.43 (σ = 3.98)

Average: 36.43 (σ = 3.98)
Mean: 36.33

Time List:
1. 38.67 U D2 R2 L2 D2 L' D' B' L' B2 R F D2 F2 U' L D' R D2 R' F L2 D2 F2 L 
2. 39.71 R L2 F' L2 R2 B D L2 U F L B L D F2 R2 L' U' F2 L U B F' U F' 
3. 38.49 L U' F2 R' U' R' D2 R2 L F U2 D2 B' L2 B2 F R2 U2 L U2 L F' U2 L R' 
4. *29.91* F R2 F2 D L' R D B2 U2 L' B U R' D2 U2 R2 D' L' B2 R' U B D' F D2 
5. 41.79 D R F2 B L' R2 F' L B' R2 D R2 B L2 U B L D' R L2 F L' D L F 
6. *30.75* U2 L2 R2 D2 B2 L' R U D2 R' D F D' B2 F' D2 R F' U2 D2 L' U2 L F' D 
7. *29.33* F2 U2 D2 L2 U' B2 U' F D2 L' B L2 D L U L2 D L2 R' F L U' L2 F' L2 
8. 38.32 B' R B R2 B2 U R' F2 U L2 F D' U B F2 R' B2 U R' D B D L' B2 F 
9. 38.49 F' B2 U L2 R2 U L F' R D2 L2 D B R2 D F R2 D' L2 U2 B D' B2 D2 R 
10. 34.23 F2 B2 U F' D' L R' U2 L2 R' D2 R' F D B2 R' B2 U2 F' D F2 R' F2 U D' 
11. 42.35 D L B2 L' B2 L2 B2 R F B' L' F' B2 D2 L2 R2 D2 U' F2 U L2 U' R' U F 
12. 33.95 U B' F' R' F B R2 B2 D U2 B' R2 D U L' R2 D2 F L2 R' F2 U2 B2 F R'



Nothing special, but two sub 30's and one 30.xx.. These are the signs for me that becomming sub 30 should be easy


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## GuRoux (Dec 11, 2014)

h2f said:


> I know what you mean, but I am wondering why it's not a big problem for me. And I think this is because of 3bld. I mean I practise 3bld for 6-8 months and when you solve your solve looks like: setup - alg (in OP Ja, Jb, T or Y; in M2 just M2) - undo setup. It is something similiar in Roux: you do some moves like setup and some just doing moves. It's the way I think about it. And 3bld improves your imagination skill which is usefull when you do first block. I can see an influence here.
> 
> Yesterday I've filmed ao5 with my mobile: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xfLfR24YPmo&list=UUAOQlshoDZ8rYCYe-6mqjhw



nice solves, that cube looks to small for your big hands.


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## h2f (Dec 11, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> Very nice! Your LSE is twice as fast as mine. In fact I think my first two blocks are just as fast as yours (17 - 20 secs), but I take another 15-20 secs for LSE.. I will film a few solves tomorrow to investigate..



Thank You. As you can see we're not far in Roux. 



GuRoux said:


> nice solves, that cube looks to small for your big hands.



Thanks. It's Gans III in normal size (I don't know if they are in small version).


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## MarcelP (Dec 12, 2014)

I now know everything after blocks is killing me. Three solves:

1) first two blocks 14 secs
2) first two blocks 15 secs
3) first two blocks 15 secs

62. 31.78 D2 B2 R2 U2 F2 L' F2 L' F2 D2 U' B' R2 D' U2 R U' B2 R' 
63. 40.00 D' R2 D' B2 D F2 U L2 B2 D2 U' B' F2 R' F2 U' B2 D B' F L 
64. 32.48 F' D2 B' D2 R2 F' U2 R2 B D B' L2 D2 B' D' R' B2 U' F'

[video=youtube_share;mir297HNh1g]http://youtu.be/mir297HNh1g[/video]


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## h2f (Dec 12, 2014)

Nice solves. LSE is a matter of practice. I think you will recognize faster soon what case there is.


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## CheesecakeCuber (Dec 12, 2014)

Pretty good solves. Just need to work on LSE tps and look-ahead, track the UL and UR pieces while orienting. For 4c, you can learn Brusinque's recog method or the Lau BU method when doing FUUU cases (the 3 cycles).

For blocks, just focus on efficiency and of course look ahead


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## MarcelP (Dec 12, 2014)

CheesecakeCuber said:


> For 4c, you can learn Brusinque's recog method or the Lau BU method when doing FUUU cases (the 3 cycles).



Thanks!! I have searched both and found one video  on Brusinque's reco but nothing on Lau BU method . I will look into practicing Brusinque today.. See if I get it.


----------



## MarcelP (Dec 15, 2014)

CheesecakeCuber said:


> For 4c, you can learn Brusinque's recog method or the Lau BU method when doing FUUU cases (the 3 cycles).



I did found out about BU method and made a video about it:

https://www.speedsolving.com/forum/showthread.php?50718-BU-method-in-step-4c-(Roux)


----------



## h2f (Dec 15, 2014)

Thanks for video. It is something that I think about but couldn't find the rule how to make l4e most efficient way.


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## MarcelP (Dec 15, 2014)

h2f said:


> Thanks for video. It is something that I think about but couldn't find the rule how to make l4e most efficient way.



It took me a few hours to figure these rules out  I am not cube smart unfortunatly.. People who are sub 10 in two months do not even have to think about stuff like this. LOL


----------



## MarcelP (Dec 19, 2014)

With only small amount practice this week I managed to shave a couple of seconds on my average. Ao50 34.60





Spoiler



1. 26.58 F2 D2 F2 L2 U' L2 U' L2 U2 L' U B2 U2 R2 U2 R U2 F' D 

x2 y' //inspection
U R' U' R U' y L' U L U' R' U R2 U R' // FB (15/66)
y U R M U M' U2 r' U' r U M U' M' r U r' //SB (18/66)
U' L' U' L U' L' U2 L // Place corners (8/66)
U' R U R' F' R U R' U' R' F R2 U' R' U' //Orient corners (15/66) 
M U M' U M U' M' // Edge orientation (7/66) 
M2 U' M2 // Rest (3/66) 

2. 27.81 D B2 F2 L2 D2 U R2 U' F2 U' R2 B D' U2 L U2 F' D R2 D2 L2 
3. 38.72 D' F U2 L2 U' R2 B' L F R' B2 U2 L2 U2 D2 F2 B U2 F' D2 L2 
4. 30.95 L2 U2 B2 L' F2 R D2 L' D2 B2 R2 B' U' B' D2 B' F' D' R B 
5. 31.66 U2 L B2 U2 L D2 F2 L U2 L B L D F' D' F2 R2 D' B' U'



[video=youtube_share;4i7OYaoqdyU]http://youtu.be/4i7OYaoqdyU[/video]


----------



## Rocky0701 (Dec 19, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> With only small amount practice this week I managed to shave a couple of seconds on my average. Ao50 34.60
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I'm glad that you're still having a great time with Roux! Since you've gotten to like sub 35 already I can definitely see you being sub 20 with it in the next six months or so.


----------



## MarcelP (Dec 19, 2014)

Rocky0701 said:


> I'm glad that you're still having a great time with Roux! Since you've gotten to like sub 35 already I can definitely see you being sub 20 with it in the next six months or so.



Yeah, knowing CML only will shave of 4 seconds or so.. But I will start with CMLL at around 25 seconds..


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## Rocky0701 (Dec 19, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> Yeah, knowing CML only will shave of 4 seconds or so.. But I will start with CMLL at around 25 seconds..


I guess that's true, but 4 seconds is still guite a bit when all you have to do is get good at algs. Winter break just started for me, so my two goals are to finish learning blind and get to like sub 5:00, and to finish the ladt 16 OLLs that I need to learn.


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## h2f (Dec 19, 2014)

Nice. I was wondering how are you, and how your Roux... This week I was focused on blindfold: 3bld, 4bld and 5bld. No time for Roux. But I've learnt few cmlls...


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## MarcelP (Dec 19, 2014)

h2f said:


> Nice. I was wondering how are you, and how your Roux... This week I was focused on blindfold: 3bld, 4bld and 5bld. No time for Roux. But I've learnt few cmlls...



I have been doing nothing but Roux. 15 minutes per day or so. Life is just too busy. But improvement has motivated me to pick up hard core cubing again


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## Rocky0701 (Dec 22, 2014)

Rocky0701 said:


> I guess that's true, but 4 seconds is still guite a bit when all you have to do is get good at algs. Winter break just started for me, so my two goals are to finish learning blind and get to like sub 5:00, and to finish the ladt 16 OLLs that I need to learn.


Ok, so I finished learning M2 and have been practicing it for a couple days. Even though I knew I would DNF, I figured it was time to try a full BLD solve. Memo time was 11:03 and solve time was an extra 3:07. Aaannnddd, off by 3 corners  I am still pretty happy for a first attempt though and getting edges perfect. I did better than I thought I would. Still haven't started learning my OLLs though haha.


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## sk8erman41 (Dec 22, 2014)

Rocky0701 said:


> Ok, so I finished learning M2 and have been practicing it for a couple days. Even though I knew I would DNF, I figured it was time to try a full BLD solve. Memo time was 11:03 and solve time was an extra 3:07. Aaannnddd, off by 3 corners  I am still pretty happy for a first attempt though and getting edges perfect. I did better than I thought I would. Still haven't started learning my OLLs though haha.



Nice job! the edges with M2 are much more complicated (at first) than the corners too, so gj getting those correct. Memo time will come down as you practice more.


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## Rocky0701 (Dec 22, 2014)

sk8erman41 said:


> Nice job! the edges with M2 are much more complicated (at first) than the corners too, so gj getting those correct. Memo time will come down as you practice more.


Thanks! Yeah, I never really had troubles learning corners but I did for edges. At first it took me a long time to understand odd or even targets and to be able to do the special targets, but I think I have it down pretty well now. Yeah, most of my memo is just reviewing over and over. I am going to do another attempt now, I'll edit in the results.

Edit: Now off by 3 edges  8:30 memo, 2:45 execution

Edit 2: Attempt 3, off by two corners. Ughh.. Exectution was perfect, but when memoing the corners, I didn't noticed that the BDL corner was in it's spot but unoriented.. So the buffer came back unoriented too. Silly mistake.

Edit 3: Attempt 4... SUCESS!!!  Memo ~6:00, execution ~2:30


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## sk8erman41 (Dec 22, 2014)

Rocky0701 said:


> Thanks! Yeah, I never really had troubles learning corners but I did for edges. At first it took me a long time to understand odd or even targets and to be able to do the special targets, but I think I have it down pretty well now. Yeah, most of my memo is just reviewing over and over. I am going to do another attempt now, I'll edit in the results.


 The even/odd thing is definitely the hardest part of M2, also just remember that if you have to flip UL or UB to keep your parity in mind because they may be switched.


Rocky0701 said:


> Edit 3: Attempt 4... SUCESS!!!  Memo ~6:00, execution ~2:30


OH yeah! that first success feels pretty good


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## sneaklyfox (Dec 22, 2014)

sk8erman41 said:


> OH yeah! that first success feels pretty good



Yeah first BLD success feels really good. Actually, it felt best of any of my BLD successes even though it probably also took the longest.


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## moralsh (Dec 22, 2014)

First official bld is also very cool. Last comp I had a 4bld attempt only off by 2 centers and 3 wings, it almost felt like a success also.

Bld is fun.


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## MarcelP (Dec 23, 2014)

Rocky0701 said:


> Edit 3: Attempt 4... SUCESS!!!  Memo ~6:00, execution ~2:30



Congrats! Very nice. it took me a lot more attempts. And I never learned M2 because it is slight more complicated than OP. And OP is allready hard enough for me.



moralsh said:


> First official bld is also very cool. Last comp I had a 4bld attempt only off by 2 centers and 3 wings, it almost felt like a success also.
> 
> Bld is fun.



Ooohh so close..


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## sneaklyfox (Dec 23, 2014)

I put caring more about BLD as one of my new year's resolutions for 2015, but I don't know if that will happen. BLD to me mostly feels like one of those things where if I have done it once it's enough to say "been there, done that". Maybe like how solving a 3x3 might feel to another person who doesn't care about speed. So maybe I could at least work towards getting a success in comp. Right now I don't even remember my M2 algs (for when the edge is stuck in M-slice).


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## sk8erman41 (Dec 23, 2014)

sneaklyfox said:


> I put caring more about BLD as one of my new year's resolutions for 2015, but I don't know if that will happen. BLD to me mostly feels like one of those things where if I have done it once it's enough to say "been there, done that". Maybe like how solving a 3x3 might feel to another person who doesn't care about speed. So maybe I could at least work towards getting a success in comp. Right now I don't even remember my M2 algs (for when the edge is stuck in M-slice).


I agree. To me, BLD is always something that sounds more appealing than it is. Sometimes I will get on a kick where I am like 'oooh this is fun' but then again I never really want to dedicate much time to practicing it. I usually do BLD solves when I don't have access to a timer or don't have much time to cube or am trying to be really quiet. During those times when speedsolving isn't the best option I think its pretty fun, but if I have other options I usually choose them instead. Maybe it comes down to not having a great letter pair list and struggling with the memo. I really like the execution part of the solve, but the memo just seems like something that I have to do rather than something that I enjoy doing. I know that making a better letter pair list would help with this, but that's the type of practice(?)/cube time that I would rather be spending doing something else. Its almost like learning algs- super important to get faster and improve, but not the most fun thing to do.


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## moralsh (Dec 23, 2014)

I think the only notable differences between BLD and speedsolving are that BLD is more time consuming and the slower progress, other than that I find that the same arguments, like repetitiveness, can be applied to either. One can think that F2L is super cool and the rest of the solve are just means to get there, or F2B and corners to get to LSE.

You just need to enjoy the different parts of BLD, you can improve Memo by memorizing more (MultiBLD, Bigcubes) and memorizing differently (Audio, letter pairs, visual) not just by memorizing faster. You can try different executions and even try new things as it is less explored than speedsolving. You can even leave the cube aside and try to memorize something else.

But I guess that not everybody is cut off for blind, as not everybody likes to solve the cube over and over. Just explore different things and have fun trying.


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## Rocky0701 (Dec 23, 2014)

Yeah. My goals for BLD are basically like sub 5 with about 75% accuracy, 3/3 MBLD and 4BLD. I am having a lot of fun with it. No successes today, but I smashed all of my 4x4 PBs, so I am still happy.


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## sneaklyfox (Dec 23, 2014)

For some strange reason I think I could possibly do decently well at BLD. Right now, my PB for 3BLD is a little less than 4 minutes and that's without much practice. When I stopped, every few successes was a new PB or something like that. And I had a good success rate. I was taking my time with memo to make it stick and get a good success rate so I could probably go faster with a little effort. Maybe if we all decided to do BLD then it would be easier to motivate myself to jump on the bandwagon.


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## Rocky0701 (Dec 23, 2014)

sneaklyfox said:


> For some strange reason I think I could possibly do decently well at BLD. Right now, my PB for 3BLD is a little less than 4 minutes and that's without much practice. When I stopped, every few successes was a new PB or something like that. And I had a good success rate. I was taking my time with memo to make it stick and get a good success rate so I could probably go faster with a little effort. Maybe if we all decided to do BLD then it would be easier to motivate myself to jump on the bandwagon.


Haha, first 5x5, then Roux, now BLD. I like it  we could all race to see who could get the first sub 5:00 MO3 since that will test speed and accuracy, also I just beat my PB and got a 6:52.


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## sneaklyfox (Dec 24, 2014)

Rocky0701 said:


> we could all race to see who could get the first sub 5:00 MO3



Hmm... we'll see if this motivates me enough to take up the challenge...

Update: Well, I just relearned my M2 algs. I'll say that's a start.


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## MarcelP (Dec 24, 2014)

I am just not a BLD person. I had set my mind on getting a BLD result last competition. But in all the practice before the competition I did not get any successes. I decided not even to start BLD at competition. I felt sorry for who ever needs to hold up paper for my blindfold. LOL.. I think I might enjoy it more if I had a success now and then, but I am not that eager for getting there. I enjoy just normal cubing a lot more,


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## sneaklyfox (Dec 24, 2014)

Marcel, how's your Roux coming along? I kind of stopped after graduating sub-25.


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## MarcelP (Dec 24, 2014)

sneaklyfox said:


> Marcel, how's your Roux coming along? I kind of stopped after graduating sub-25.


Today Ao50 33.xx slowly getting better..
[video=youtube_share;4r37VZwa5vo]http://youtu.be/4r37VZwa5vo[/video]


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## ThomasJE (Dec 24, 2014)

Wow, you're not far behind me now! Especially single; 0.13 difference now!

I need to get back into cubing; I stopped for exams and then I started playing chess.


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## MarcelP (Dec 24, 2014)

ThomasJE said:


> Wow, you're not far behind me now! Especially single; 0.13 difference now!
> 
> I need to get back into cubing; I stopped for exams and then I started playing chess.



Hey Thomas. I have stopped CFOP practice little over a month ago. Will take a while before I get my CFOP times at Roux. i suspect more than 6 months.. But hey.. I am not geting bored 

edit: that 12.01 single is in my youtube videos..


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## Schmidt (Dec 24, 2014)

But you still do cfop for weekly?!? Commitment, please  oh and merry Christmas


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## MarcelP (Dec 24, 2014)

Schmidt said:


> But you still do cfop for weekly?!? Commitment, please  oh and merry Christmas



Yes, I do CFOP for the weekly. My times are surpringly steady. But I am starting to forget OLLs and G perms.  It wil be all worth it in the end when I average 15 secs with Roux.. Lol.. Merry Christmas to you and your family.


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## h2f (Dec 25, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> Today Ao50 33.xx slowly getting better..
> http://youtu.be/4r37VZwa5vo



It looks like you are neutral in "y" axis? I must try this. I do only 'y2' neutral, sometimes x2. I think our times are now the same. Are you learining cmlls? I think I know B-E, but the recognition is not a problem for me only for B. And I found two my cmlls. 

I got a Moyu skewb yesterday - and I think I will learn it.


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## MarcelP (Dec 25, 2014)

h2f said:


> It looks like you are neutral in "y" axis? I must try this. I do only 'y2' neutral, sometimes x2. I think our times are now the same. Are you learining cmlls? I think I know B-E, but the recognition is not a problem for me only for B. And I found two my cmlls.
> 
> I got a Moyu skewb yesterday - and I think I will learn it.



Yes, I am y n CN but.. I am way faster on just blue on left.. I can do orange, red and green on left but I prefer blue. When I do red or orange I have to keep reminding me during the solve to look for red/orange UL and UR  I think in another month I should be comfertably sub 30. So learning Roux is much harder than becomming CN on CFOP. When I was sub 30 on CFOP I became CN in much less time. I could be faster right now, but I try to do everything good from the beginning. So I mean no CFOP inserts but good block building, doing U with left hand and M with right hand during LSE etc.. 

I have two skewbs but I never use them.. I am addicted to 3X3.. LOL

EDIT, no CMLL so far.. will start after sub 25


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## h2f (Dec 25, 2014)

I've never been CN in CFOP - it was too hard for me. I was trying to solve on yellow on bottom, but I had worst times and gave up in speedsolving. But in Roux it is quite easy for me. And I stay with my x2/y2 CN. I started with blue on left, but I found green on left much more comfortable for me.  

I hope I will join to sub-30 club next month too.  Now I wanna rest from bld (I will do it only for Weekly comp) and focus on Roux.


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## Schmidt (Dec 25, 2014)

PB 3BLD 4:21.75 [~2:30 memo]
FI VC AO KQ XM S parity
RBD FDL FDR LBD FUR UFL UBR


----------



## Logiqx (Dec 26, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> I have two skewbs but I never use them.. I am addicted to 3x3.



I received a Moyu Skewb yesterday. I don't plan to speed solve it but it would be nice to figure it out myself. It's kind of weird compared to the traditional cubes. I have not watched any videos about solving the Pyraminx or Skewb and I haven't read any guides. I figured out the clock when I was in my teens and the mega minx was easy using my general cubing skills. The Skewb appears to need something different but doesn't appear too hard.

I think I just had my first self-solve on the Skewb but I still have one corner twisted. I'm guessing that is an impossible case and due to the rough handling by my nephew yesterday! I don't have a method yet so it was quite a surprise to get to the solved state this morning, hehe.

I'm spreading myself a bit thin at the moment... speed solving 2x2-5x5 and 3x3 OH. My roux times are slowly dropping and I got my first sub-30 single a couple of days ago. I need to quit my job and focus on puzzles if I'm to get a decent amount of time practicing each event.


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## h2f (Dec 26, 2014)

Schmidt said:


> PB 3BLD 4:21.75 [~2:30 memo]
> FI VC AO KQ XM S parity
> RBD FDL FDR LBD FUR UFL UBR



I think it's easier to use letters on corners? I do that way.  

I did ao100 = 32.17 yesterday/today, and it looks ok for me:


Spoiler



solves/total: 101/101

single
best: 22.78
worst: 51.58

mean of 3
current: 29.73 (σ = 4.39)
best: 27.39 (σ = 1.00)

avg of 5
current: 30.09 (σ = 4.00)
best: 28.60 (σ = 4.30)

avg of 12
current: 30.30 (σ = 3.24)
best: 29.78 (σ = 2.46)

avg of 50
current: 31.82 (σ = 3.69)
best: 31.82 (σ = 3.46)

avg of 100
current: 32.17 (σ = 3.45)
best: 32.16 (σ = 3.46)


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## Logiqx (Dec 26, 2014)

I've got my 10 year old nephew doing the first 2 layers this morning.

Colour neutral, cross on bottom and finger tricks instead of wrist turns.

I wonder if I get get him through the last layer before I leave later today.


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## MarcelP (Dec 26, 2014)

Schmidt said:


> PB 3BLD 4:21.75



Cool! Pretty fast too.. Congrats



Logiqx said:


> My roux times are slowly dropping and I got my first sub-30 single a couple of days ago. I need to quit my job and focus on puzzles if I'm to get a decent amount of time practicing each event.



LOL.. Yeah my work takes too much from my fun time too. Congrats on the sub 30. 



h2f said:


> I think it's easier to use letters on corners? I do that way.
> 
> I did ao100 = 32.17 yesterday/today, and it looks ok for me:
> 
> ...




Yeah.. I am so close.. This mornings session:



Spoiler



Generated By csTimer on 2014-12-26
solves/total: 50/50

single
best: 20.86
worst: 45.76

mean of 3
current: 30.33 (σ = 4.33)
best: 28.64 (σ = 6.92)

avg of 5
current: 31.87 (σ = 3.21)
best: 29.77 (σ = 1.47)

avg of 12
current: 32.20 (σ = 3.11)
best: *31.08 *(σ = 2.21)

avg of 50
current: 32.82 (σ = 3.10)
best: 32.82 (σ = 3.10)

Average: *32.82 (σ = 3.10)*
Mean: 32.88


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## h2f (Dec 26, 2014)

Nice.

I got first Ao12 sub-30 in race to sub-30 thread. And my ao100 is sub-32 now.


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## Logiqx (Dec 26, 2014)

Logiqx said:


> I wonder if I get get him through the last layer before I leave later today.



Mission successful. Last Layer completed... FRU, Niklas and Sune.

Hopefully my beginner cheat sheets will be enough of a reminder when I am gone.

His dad has ordered him in AoLong V2. Watch out Felix and watch out his parents for annoying clicking, lol.


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## sk8erman41 (Dec 29, 2014)

smashed some PB's today!  Sub-20 global here we come!


Spoiler: Ao100 full



Generated By csTimer on 2014-12-29
solves/total: 100/100

single
best: 14.63
worst: 29.40

mean of 3
current: 23.97 (σ = 2.89)
best: 16.64 (σ = 1.04)

avg of 5
current: 21.05 (σ = 2.80)
best: 17.38 (σ = 0.79)

avg of 12
current: 20.81 (σ = 2.88)
*best: 18.52! (σ = 2.11)*

avg of 50
current: 20.20 (σ = 2.37)
*best: 19.96! (σ = 2.37)*
avg of 100
current: 20.36 (σ = 2.53)
*best: 20.36! (σ = 2.53)*

Average: 20.36 (σ = 2.53)
Mean: 20.44

Time List:
1. 19.71 B2 L2 F' U2 B D2 L2 R2 F2 U2 B' D' B L2 B' F2 L U R U' 
2. 21.51 F D2 B' F' R2 F' U2 R2 U2 L2 F' D U2 B' U' R F R2 D2 B2 
3. 25.33 R' U2 F2 D2 L2 R' D2 B2 L U2 B2 U L' F' D2 R' F' D' R B R2 
4. 17.53 U2 F U' R2 F U' R U2 B L2 D R2 U B2 U' D2 R2 D2 
5. 25.17 L2 B2 F2 D2 L D2 L' F2 U2 L D2 U F' D B2 L B U2 F2 U R2 
6. 23.88 U' R2 D' U' R2 B2 R2 U F2 U B' L' B' R D R' D F2 U' R' 
7. 25.99 B2 L' R2 B2 F2 R' U2 B2 L' F' D B' L' F L2 U F2 U R' 
8. 19.17 F2 U2 R' U2 L B2 L F2 L' D2 U' L2 D' R U' L' B F' R B 
9. 23.53 L2 U L2 U2 R2 U2 B2 U' R2 F2 U' F L U' L' D' L' R U F L' 
10. 18.88 U F2 D B2 R2 D2 F2 L2 F2 U R2 F' R' B R2 D' B' F2 D2 F R' 
11. 16.47 L2 R2 F2 R2 B U2 B' D2 F2 L2 D2 L' D F2 L2 B F U B' R B' 
12. 17.75 F2 U' B D L B' R2 U' R' L2 F' D2 B2 R2 D2 B2 R2 F' D2 F2 
13. 15.70 U R F B' D' L B2 D' F2 B D R' B2 D2 R U2 D2 R2 
14. 23.33 R F2 L2 F2 D2 F2 R' D2 U2 B R F2 U2 B' D' R' B' U F 
15. 17.92 D' F' L' F' D' F R2 L2 B R U' R2 L2 U' B2 U R2 D' F2 U2 
16. 21.64 B2 R2 F2 U' F2 R2 D F2 D' R2 U2 B U R2 F U2 B2 L' D2 L2 
17. 14.80 L2 D B' U' L' F2 R2 F' U D2 R2 F' R2 D2 R2 F2 R2 L2 D2 B' 
18. 17.33 L' B2 U2 R D2 R B2 L2 B2 R B2 F' L2 F2 U F L U' R F2 
19. 19.49 B2 F2 U2 L' R2 U2 L B2 F2 L' R2 D L F R' U2 F2 R2 B' L' B 
20. 22.31 L U B' U2 R' U2 R F2 R' D' F2 U R2 F2 D2 F2 U R2 D 
21. 17.76 B2 U2 R2 D2 R F2 U2 R F2 U L B2 L2 D U2 L2 B' D2 F' 
22. 19.36 R2 D' R2 U' L2 B2 U2 R2 F2 D B R D F' D' L F' L2 F' L' 
23. 20.74 B2 U2 B2 U L2 F2 U' F2 U' B2 L D' F2 L2 B' D B2 R U F 
24. 18.04 L' U2 R F' B2 D' F B U R' U2 F D2 R2 B D2 B2 R2 B' U2 
25. 19.24 L2 D2 F2 D2 B2 L' D2 L R2 B2 D2 F' L2 U B' F2 R' B' U' R 
26. 20.51 R' L' D L2 B2 U B R F2 D' B2 U' L2 U F2 L2 D R2 D 
27. 19.87 D2 B2 R2 D2 L2 D2 F' L2 B' F L2 D B' F' L' U L' R U' L 
28. 20.90 F2 D2 R2 D2 F' R2 B F U2 B L R' B D' L F' L U2 B D2 
29. 21.36 F' B2 U2 B' U F' R D' F' U B2 U F2 D2 F2 L2 B2 L2 U R2 
30. 19.78 L2 R2 F2 U L2 D B2 D' L2 U2 B' D' B2 F2 L R2 D' F2 
31. 23.58 D2 R B2 F2 U2 L D2 L' U2 B2 U2 F' D L' U L' D2 B2 F' L' F' 
32. 19.77 F D2 U2 F2 L2 B' U2 R2 D2 B2 R' U B2 L U2 R D L R' 
33. 24.18 L2 F2 D2 B F2 U2 F R2 B' L2 F' L' R B' L' U' R' D' B' L' 
34. 19.13 R2 D2 B D2 B' L2 F2 U2 F2 D2 F2 R' U2 F' L U R2 B' D2 B' F 
35. 24.95 B R' U' L' U' F B R B2 D' R' L' D2 L F2 R' U2 F2 L2 D2 F2 
36. 26.62 F2 D2 R2 B2 F' L2 R2 F' U2 R2 U2 R U' L' B2 R D B2 D' U F' 
37. 23.47 R' D2 R U2 L' B2 R2 D2 U2 R U R F R F' L' D U2 R F' 
38. 22.24 R2 B2 L2 U2 R2 U B2 F2 D' U' L B' U' R' D L2 D' F' L U2 
39. 19.66 D2 U2 F D2 U2 B2 U2 B' R2 U L D L D' F' R U2 F D2 
40. 18.29 L2 D F2 D2 U L2 D B2 L2 F2 U' L B D L' B R' B2 D 
41. 15.32 U2 L2 D2 U2 R U2 R' B2 F2 R2 B D F D2 U' F L2 D F D 
42. 16.70 D2 F2 D2 R' U2 L U2 R2 D2 L R B' D L2 U2 B2 F U B' L' 
43. 20.23 R2 F' L2 U2 B D2 L2 D2 B U2 F' D R' F D L U L' R2 F2 R' 
44. 22.44 F2 R2 B2 U' R2 D' U L2 D' L F U' R' U2 B' R' F U2 F' 
45. 22.83 B2 D2 L' B2 R F2 L U2 R2 U' R' U R2 D2 R B U' L' R' 
46. 17.78 R' U2 R F2 R2 B2 U2 L D2 R2 F' U' F2 L' R2 B2 D2 B D F2 
47. 27.09 L2 B' L2 F' R2 B' D2 F2 L2 R2 F2 U B' D' B2 D2 B' L' F2 D U' 
48. 17.18 F R2 B D2 F' D2 F2 D2 F L2 R' U' L U' R' U' F' L2 U' L2 B' 
49. 17.24 L2 U2 L2 F2 D' R2 D' F2 D2 R' B2 D' F R' F2 R2 B D' U 
50. 24.53 R2 F D R L D F2 B' U D2 B' D2 L2 B' R2 D2 F D2 L2 D2 
51. 24.24 U R2 F U2 B' R2 F2 R F' U2 R2 L2 U' R2 B2 D R2 B2 U D2 
52. 23.35 U' L2 D2 F D B' D L' F U' R2 U D2 R2 B2 U F2 U2 F2 
53. 18.77 D2 L2 D L2 D B2 D L2 F2 R F L' U2 F' D' L F D 
54. 16.86 B D2 F' U2 R F' U B D L2 U2 B D2 F B2 U2 F2 L2 F' 
55. 17.07 F2 D L B2 U F2 B' U2 F' L2 D B2 U2 D' R2 F2 U2 F2 D' F2 
56. 19.64 U' R2 F2 D B2 U' R2 U R2 U' F2 R' B2 D2 F R2 U2 R B2 R2 U' 
57. 22.23 R' F R' U2 B' U2 F2 D R L' U' R2 U L2 U B2 R2 F2 U R2 B2 
58. 22.53 D2 L2 B2 D2 U' L2 B2 U' B2 D' R2 F' D R2 B2 F' D F2 U R' 
59. 17.04 B2 U B R2 B L2 U' R U F' D2 F' U2 F U2 F' D2 R2 B2 L2 
60. 22.84 L2 U2 R' D' R' L U' D' L F L' F2 R' F2 U2 L U2 R B2 L2 
61. 21.92 U2 F2 L2 B U2 R2 B' L2 U2 F L U2 F U' R B D2 B' D2 U 
62. 17.99 U' B2 U B' R U2 R' U2 L' B2 L2 U' F2 U2 F2 B2 U' L2 F2 B2 
63. 18.60 R2 B2 L2 D2 B2 D B2 F2 U2 R B' L2 D U2 R D U' L F' 
64. 22.86 D B2 D' R2 D L2 D R2 F2 D F2 L' B2 D2 B U L2 D2 F2 U' R 
65. 15.90 U2 F U2 L2 D2 U2 F2 R2 F L2 F2 D B F U F2 L D2 R2 F' L' 
66. 23.87 U2 B R' F D' F U2 D' B R' F R2 D2 F' U2 R2 F2 R2 F' R2 F2 
67. 24.63 F2 D2 U' B2 U B2 L2 U R2 U' R B2 F' U R2 B D2 B2 R' D2 
68. 20.82 R2 D R2 U R2 F2 L2 R2 D' L2 R2 B R2 B L' F U' L' F' U 
69. 18.65 R2 B' L2 R2 U2 R2 U2 F' R2 B2 L' D B2 R' U2 B' F2 L2 D2 L' 
70. 18.98 U2 D' F D2 B' R U' F' R U2 F B' L2 B L2 D2 B2 D2 
71. 15.03 B2 D2 F U2 L2 R2 F R2 F D' U' R' F' L' U' L' D2 U2 L2 
72. 18.70 D2 U2 B' D2 B D2 R2 D2 U2 B2 U2 L B F2 D2 L D F U' B L' 
73. 18.34 D2 R2 D F2 D' F2 D2 F2 U F2 R2 F' L' U F2 R U2 L2 B' D2 F 
74. 18.59 B2 U2 F2 R2 D2 U2 R' D2 F2 L' R2 F' R D B' F U L2 B L R 
75. 21.98 D2 U B2 U L2 U R2 B2 L2 U L' U2 R' B' R U B2 L D2 R' 
76. 16.71 B2 F2 D2 L2 U' B2 L2 F2 R2 U' R' B2 L' B R2 D2 U' R2 B' D' 
77. 22.43 D2 R2 F' R2 U2 L2 F' L2 F' U2 R' F' R' F' D2 U' F L D' U' 
78. 17.41 F2 D B2 D' F2 L2 U2 R2 U2 F2 L D' R' D' U L' B' L' R' U2 B 
79. 17.25 U R2 D R2 F2 U' R2 F2 D L2 B' R2 D2 U' L U' R' U2 B' L 
80. 19.49 U2 B' D2 F2 L2 U2 F U2 L2 R2 F L D2 R2 B2 D R' D2 U L2 F' 
81. 22.86 B2 U2 R F2 L2 U2 F2 L' B2 R F2 U' F2 D R D R2 F R' F2 
82. 21.26 B2 D' F2 U' L2 D U2 R2 B2 R2 B F D' F2 L' F2 L R F' R 
83. 22.12 R2 B2 F2 D2 R2 F2 U L2 U' R2 U' L F R B' U B U L F2 U' 
84. 22.54 U' F R' B L2 U' F2 L' B2 R B2 R2 B2 D2 B R2 D2 F R2 D2 B 
85. 14.63 R2 F' R' D' F' D2 L' D2 B' U R2 F U2 F' D2 B R2 F' B' L2 
86. 24.94 U2 F R2 B U F2 L' U' R' F' R2 B' U2 R2 U2 F2 L2 F L2 
87. 18.00 B2 L' D F2 D' F2 R2 U' B L' B2 R B2 U2 L2 D2 R U2 L U2 
88. 20.14 R' D2 F' R' B D' L' B2 U' R D2 F2 U' F2 U L2 U B2 D R2 
89. 19.26 U' R2 D2 L2 R2 F2 D' R2 U' F2 R' B2 D2 R' F' D2 U2 F D 
90. 22.12 D L2 U' R2 B2 D2 L2 U' B2 U2 R B D' F' L B F2 R D R2 D2 
91. 18.44 R2 B' L2 B' D2 L2 B2 D2 F' R2 B L' U2 L' D L' U2 R F L2 U 
92. 20.23 B2 L' U2 R U2 B2 F2 L R2 D2 R B' R' D L U' L2 B' L D2 R2 
93. 17.13 F2 D' B2 D' L2 U' R2 U R2 U' F' D2 F2 R U' F U2 L' F' R2 
94. 29.40 F2 R2 D B2 U' F2 D L2 D' F2 R2 B L' R2 B' U' L2 B2 R' D' L 
95. 20.49 D F2 U' R2 U F2 U F2 D2 B2 L' F' D R' U2 B R U B F' 
96. 18.18 F' U F D L2 U2 R D' L D B' L2 F U2 R2 B' L2 B D2 L2 
97. 17.49 L2 B2 U B2 D' L2 U2 R2 B2 L2 U' B D F R F' R2 B' D U2 R2 
98. 26.95 D2 L F2 D2 L U2 R' D2 F2 R B2 F' R B F2 R D' U2 R' F' R 
99. 23.78 B2 D F2 D2 R2 D' B2 R2 U2 R2 U R U' B' L' F' D2 U2 R U' 
100. 21.18 R' U L F' L F' B R F2 D' R2 B2 D2 R' U2 D2 R D2 B2 L





Spoiler: time distribution



14+: 6
16+: 20
18+: 25
20+: 15
22+: 21
24+: 9
26+: 3
28+: 1


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## MarcelP (Dec 29, 2014)

sk8erman41 said:


> smashed some PB's today!  Sub-20 global here we come!
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Ao100 full
> ...



Congrats! Way to go.


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## Rocky0701 (Dec 29, 2014)

Nice!


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## Logiqx (Dec 30, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> LOL.. Yeah my work takes too much from my fun time too. Congrats on the sub 30.



Scrub that... I just got a lucky 18.41 

L2 F D2 B D' B R' B2 D2 U L2 U2 L2 R' F2 L2 R D' B U R2 D2 F D F2

The first block was very easy (4 moves), second block was decent, CMLL was solved with RFAS (7 moves) and LSE was 2 moves (U' M'). Crazy!


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## Logiqx (Dec 30, 2014)

Logiqx said:


> Scrub that... I just got a lucky 18.41
> 
> L2 F D2 B D' B R' B2 D2 U L2 U2 L2 R' F2 L2 R D' B U R2 D2 F D F2
> 
> The first block was very easy (4 moves), second block was decent, CMLL was solved with RFAS (7 moves) and LSE was 2 moves (U' M'). Crazy!



Single 18.41, Ao5 40.50, Ao12 43.73

Yep... definitely lucky. hahah


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## Rocky0701 (Dec 31, 2014)

Hey, are you guys going to get the HuaChuang? I still haven't gotten an AoChuang so if it gets good reviews then I will definitely get it.


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## sk8erman41 (Dec 31, 2014)

Rocky0701 said:


> Hey, are you guys going to get the HuaChuang? I still haven't gotten an AoChuang so if it gets good reviews then I will definitely get it.



I pre-ordered one. I haven't really been in love with the AoChuang, but I have been using it a lot more recently and it is getting better and better as it breaks in. I'm hoping it's like the weisu/aosu. Weisu was a great cube compared to the ss, but aosu so much better. I'll put my 2 cents in on the HuaChuang when it arrives


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## MarcelP (Dec 31, 2014)

Rocky0701 said:


> Hey, are you guys going to get the HuaChuang? I still haven't gotten an AoChuang so if it gets good reviews then I will definitely get it.



I have not. I like the AoChuang. And I rarely solve the 5x5.  I did get the mini AoSu.. and it is awesome...


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## MarcelP (Dec 31, 2014)

For the people that care: Little video of my improvement. I am pretty much x2, y color neutral now, have lost most nasty CFOP habits and I am more efficient on blocks. I will be sooo cool in a year or so  



Spoiler



1. 29.06 D2 R2 D' F' D2 R F R U2 F B2 L2 U2 B' L2 F' R2 U2 
2. 29.53 F2 U2 L2 B' L2 D2 U2 F D2 B R F' U' L' D2 L2 F' D' L R 
3. 34.41 R2 D2 L2 F2 R2 D' L2 D2 R2 U L B U B2 F L' U R U L' 
4. 30.33 R2 D2 U2 F' L2 B U2 B L2 R2 F' L R B' U' R' D2 L' B2 U' F2
5. 30.27 F2 R2 U F2 U' F' R' D B' L' F2 U2 F2 R2 D2 L2 D2 B' U2 F' 
6. 33.27 B2 U' R2 U' L2 R2 B2 D2 L2 R2 D' F U B L2 F R' F2 U2 R' U'



[video=youtube_share;AJ4BMXHYozk]http://youtu.be/AJ4BMXHYozk[/video]


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## sk8erman41 (Dec 31, 2014)

sk8erman41 said:


> I haven't really been in love with the AoChuang, but I have been using it a lot more recently and it is getting better and better as it breaks in



Yup, getting better and better as it breaks in, new PB!...
*2:22.38* Fw' F2 R2 U' R2 Rw' U R' U F' Dw2 Rw' Dw F2 R2 L' Fw2 Uw Rw B2 Rw2 Fw' Dw2 Uw B2 D2 Rw2 B' Bw2 Dw' Uw2 D R2 B Lw L F Uw2 U' F2 Rw2 Lw Fw2 L Uw Lw' Dw2 Rw' Uw' Bw2 B2 Uw Bw2 B Fw Uw' Bw2 Uw2 D' Rw


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## mark49152 (Jan 1, 2015)

Happy New Year to all  Hope you all had a great holiday break.

I haven't been doing much cubing for the last couple of months due to pain in my elbow. But I'm still here . Have done some 4x4 this holiday though I'm still 5-10 secs slower than a couple of months ago. Excited for my Mini AoSu to arrive! I'm also excited for the HuaChuang. My resolution for 2015 is to do more big cubes and different puzzles and not focus on 3x3 so much.

I'm also still working on my programming projects, as a pain-free alternative to cubing. I have my F2L solver working now and am thinking about how I could put it online. That's another of my aims for 2015 - contribute some programming stuff.


----------



## MarcelP (Jan 1, 2015)

mark49152 said:


> Happy New Year to all  Hope you all had a great holiday break.
> 
> I haven't been doing much cubing for the last couple of months due to pain in my elbow. But I'm still here . Have done some 4x4 this holiday though I'm still 5-10 secs slower than a couple of months ago. Excited for my Mini AoSu to arrive! I'm also excited for the HuaChuang. My resolution for 2015 is to do more big cubes and different puzzles and not focus on 3x3 so much.
> 
> I'm also still working on my programming projects, as a pain-free alternative to cubing. I have my F2L solver working now and am thinking about how I could put it online. That's another of my aims for 2015 - contribute some programming stuff.



Hi Mark, I was allready wondering where you had gone.  I am looking forward to your online solver.


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## Logiqx (Jan 2, 2015)

mark49152 said:


> Happy New Year to all  Hope you all had a great holiday break.
> 
> I haven't been doing much cubing for the last couple of months due to pain in my elbow. But I'm still here . Have done some 4x4 this holiday though I'm still 5-10 secs slower than a couple of months ago. Excited for my Mini AoSu to arrive! I'm also excited for the HuaChuang. My resolution for 2015 is to do more big cubes and different puzzles and not focus on 3x3 so much.
> 
> I'm also still working on my programming projects, as a pain-free alternative to cubing. I have my F2L solver working now and am thinking about how I could put it online. That's another of my aims for 2015 - contribute some programming stuff.



Happy new year everyone.

I hope your elbow is improving Mark. It's good you are finding enjoyment in your programming projects. I wonder how many of us oldies are programmers? Marcel, you and myself all write software but it's no surprise that software engineer types are attracted to the cube!

My cubing goals for 2015 are to become a more all-round solver. I want my 4x4 and 5x5 global averages to be sub-1:30 and sub-3:00 and I'd like to be globally sub-30 with Roux, ZZ and Petrus. My CFOP times are stagnant at the moment (almost zero practice) but they're not much worse than when I was focused on 3x3 only. I'd like to push my global CFOP average to sub-20. I can probably knock a second off my 2x2 averages if start predicting the OLL most of the time as well. At some time I ought to figure out my own methods for the Pyraminx and Skewb... before learning a recognised beginner method.

I've also got one or two software ideas but I'm not going to mention them since I may not get around to them!


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## MarcelP (Jan 2, 2015)

Logiqx said:


> I wonder how many of us oldies are programmers? Marcel, you and myself all write software but it's no surprise that software engineer types are attracted to the cube!



Also a lot of young people here are into programming. I find that very cool. Seems like cubers are more intelligent than most normal people. 

@Mark, about the mini Aosu, it solves like a 3x3. It is better resistant to pops than the larger version, and it cuts way better.

Edit: About my new years resolution, cube less and start learning how to play the piano. No kidding


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## mark49152 (Jan 2, 2015)

Great, looking forward to the Mini Aosu.

@Logiqx, we have exactly the same targets for CFOP, 4x4 and 5x5 - funny how we are so close. I got my first sub-1:30 ao50 on 4x4 today, so I might have to adjust that target, but I wouldn't say I'm global sub-1:30 yet.

Today I was backing up my timer data from my phone. These numbers tell something about my 3x3 practice habits. I started using this timer in April and haven't done any timed 3x3 since October, so they cover about 6 months. As you can see, my mission this year was to spam F2L practice 

Full 3x3 solves = 3397
F2L pairs only = 6204
Blind cross = 1042
Cross+1 = 675

EDIT: I also do quite a lot of untimed slow solves but can't count those...


----------



## MarcelP (Jan 3, 2015)

Wow Mark, you have made tremendous progress on the bigger cubes  I have solved 5X5 once since last comp  Feliks has a video up about the HuaChuang and he is doing a give away of two HuaChuangs on twitter. I never enter giveaways because I can afford them myself, but receiving a cube from Feliks sounds pretty damn special so I entered.


----------



## mark49152 (Jan 3, 2015)

Yeah I will definitely get the HuaChuang. My AoChuang has a pop or jam once every 3-4 solves and from Feliks' review it sounds like this is fixed.

I did lots of 4x4 and 5x5 in October and I'm pretty sure that's what caused my elbow problem!

Marcel, do you have the Rubik's speed cube?


----------



## MarcelP (Jan 3, 2015)

mark49152 said:


> Marcel, do you have the Rubik's speed cube?



No, since no of the Chinese shops (Lightake, cubezz, fasttect etc.) where I buy sells them. Coubyx has a nice review of it meaning it is not a bad cube. I would like to have one, but not for 20 dollar plus shipping.


----------



## mark49152 (Jan 3, 2015)

Seems like one that ought to be in my collection even if I never use it


----------



## MarcelP (Jan 3, 2015)

mark49152 said:


> Seems like one that ought to be in my collection even if I never use it



Yeah, if you ever find one for nice price or some American fellow want to help us out by sending one that they sell at Wallmart let me know..


----------



## mark49152 (Jan 3, 2015)

MarcelP said:


> Yeah, if you ever find one for nice price or some American fellow want to help us out by sending one that they sell at Wallmart let me know..


I see it for 14.47 GBP on Amazon UK with free shipping. No more than I spend on any other 3x3.


----------



## MarcelP (Jan 3, 2015)

mark49152 said:


> I see it for 14.47 GBP on Amazon UK with free shipping. No more than I spend on any other 3x3.



That's over 20 dollars.. But maybe not too bad for something you really want in your collection. I checked amazon.nl but it is not available in Holland. Maybe http://www.rubiks.com/store/product/rubiks-speed-cube is still cheaper for you


----------



## mark49152 (Jan 3, 2015)

MarcelP said:


> That's over 20 dollars.. But maybe not too bad for something you really want in your collection.


But dude, it comes with a free screwdriver and syringe. And just look at that presentation box!


----------



## Schmidt (Jan 3, 2015)

And three sets of springs!


----------



## sneaklyfox (Jan 4, 2015)

Logiqx said:


> Happy new year everyone.
> 
> I hope your elbow is improving Mark. It's good you are finding enjoyment in your programming projects. I wonder how many of us oldies are programmers? Marcel, you and myself all write software but it's no surprise that software engineer types are attracted to the cube!
> 
> ...



Yes, Happy New Year! I wouldn't call myself a programmer although I was originally studying computer science at university until I switched to mechanical engineering. I'm very glad to be done with counting my 3x3 solves in 2014 so I think now I'll do more other puzzles. I have to get back to 4x4 because I want to sub-1 and I've been working on some 3BLD. Learning CLL for 2x2 is on the list somewhere too.


----------



## Logiqx (Jan 4, 2015)

mark49152 said:


> @Logiqx, we have exactly the same targets for CFOP, 4x4 and 5x5 - funny how we are so close. I got my first sub-1:30 ao50 on 4x4 today, so I might have to adjust that target, but I wouldn't say I'm global sub-1:30 yet.



Refer to me as Mike if you prefer. I never thought I'd be positing when I signed up with the Logiqx nick. 

We seem to have very similar times and targets although we have quite different approaches to practice. I tend to do full solves when I practice but I've never done more than 25 solves during a 4x4x4 session. Playing around with Roux is also fun but I can't keep up with you on big cubes and Marcel on Roux. 

If the ratios are to be believed, I think perhaps my 2x2x2 times are probably my stronger point although I don't do it that much. I hardly picked up a cube this week since it has been windy and I've been doing a lot of driving or windsurfing... more of the same next week I think!



mark49152 said:


> I see it for 14.47 GBP on Amazon UK with free shipping. No more than I spend on any other 3x3.



I bought one from Amazon earlier this week (just to see what it was like) and it arrived yesterday. I've only done a few solves and it is much better than a normal Rubik's cube but it's a long way short of the Dayan and Moyu cubes in my collection. At some time I'll lube and tension it but for now I'll just leave it lying around the house for the occasional solve so that it can be broken in. At the moment I find the corners catch on the centre pieces (causing lock-ups) which isn't something I've ever experienced on a 3x3x3. Still nice to have one in my collection though... feels like I should own one!

Mini AoSu sounds nice. Let me know how yours feels and I may well get one for myself. An improved 5x5x5 is also appealing because good as the AoChuang is compared to my ShengShou, I still get the occasional jam through sloppy turning.


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## Logiqx (Jan 4, 2015)

sneaklyfox said:


> Yes, Happy New Year! I wouldn't call myself a programmer although I was originally studying computer science at university until I switched to mechanical engineering.



Ah.. so you are still an engineering type.



sneaklyfox said:


> Learning CLL for 2x2 is on the list somewhere too.



As a background activity, I'm starting to choose COLL and CMLL algs for Roux and OH. They might become a LL alternative for my Petrus and ZZ solves as well (i.e. OCLL + PLL or COLL + EPLL).

I'll see how I get on when I start learning them later this year and maybe look at where there is a crossover with CLL on 2x2x2.

This aspect to my cubing is a little way down my todo list at the moment... I need to get actual practice to improve my times.


----------



## sneaklyfox (Jan 4, 2015)

Logiqx said:


> Refer to me as Mike if you prefer. I never thought I'd be positing when I signed up with the Logiqx nick.


Nice. Now we have Marcel, Mark, Melody, and Mike. (Did I forget anyone?) It's a thread for M people.



Logiqx said:


> Ah.. so you are still an engineering type.


Engineers can do everything.


----------



## Schmidt (Jan 5, 2015)

@Everybody
I _might_ buy a new cube this year, but what to choose? What is your favorite 3x3x3 cube right now?


----------



## Logiqx (Jan 5, 2015)

Schmidt said:


> @Everybody
> I _might_ buy a new cube this year, but what to choose? What is your favorite 3x3x3 cube right now?



My favourite is the AoLong V1 by the V2 is a close second.


----------



## sneaklyfox (Jan 5, 2015)

Schmidt said:


> @Everybody
> I _might_ buy a new cube this year, but what to choose? What is your favorite 3x3x3 cube right now?



I still can't decide between Weilong v1 and Aolong v2... if it has to be a 3x3. Otherwise, the mini Aosu is on my personal wish list.


----------



## Rocky0701 (Jan 6, 2015)

sneaklyfox said:


> I still can't decide between Weilong v1 and Aolong v2... if it has to be a 3x3. Otherwise, the mini Aosu is on my personal wish list.


WeiLong FTW. I would get the HuaChuang. It's what I am most excited about getting. Also, my last name is McEvoy, does that count?


----------



## MarcelP (Jan 6, 2015)

Schmidt said:


> @Everybody
> I _might_ buy a new cube this year, but what to choose? What is your favorite 3x3x3 cube right now?



I like the AoLong V1 for Roux and V2 for CFOP  I think AoLong V2 is the best cube out there at the moment although a Weilong V2 comes pretty close. A real cheap cube called Formula cube at Lightake is also very nice. And if you like a stickerless cube (will be comp legal soon) you definatly should look in Qiyi Bull fight cube. Also very cheap but great.


----------



## DeeDubb (Jan 6, 2015)

Schmidt said:


> @Everybody
> I _might_ buy a new cube this year, but what to choose? What is your favorite 3x3x3 cube right now?



whatever you want + a guanhong (so cheap, and so nice)...


----------



## mark49152 (Jan 6, 2015)

I agree with Marcel - AoLong v2/v1 or WeiLong v2. I don't like the feel of the WeiLong v1 so much.

Formula is apparently a rebranded SuLong. Marcel, have you compared the pieces?


----------



## MarcelP (Jan 6, 2015)

mark49152 said:


> I agree with Marcel - AoLong v2/v1 or WeiLong v2. I don't like the feel of the WeiLong v1 so much.
> 
> Formula is apparently a rebranded SuLong. Marcel, have you compared the pieces?



I have 4 SuLongs and NONE come even close in performance and feel. The pieces are different. If they would have said rebranded GuanLong I would believe it. But still I have only two GuanLongs and they have no rings (I forgot how you call them). GuanLong is slower than Formula.


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## Antonie faz fan (Jan 6, 2015)

MarcelP said:


> I have 4 SuLongs and NONE come even close in performance and feel. The pieces are different. If they would have said rebranded GuanLong I would believe it. But still I have only two GuanLongs and they have no rings (I forgot how you call them). GuanLong is slower than Formula.



lol, how come having 4 of them . did you want to start multi blind or something XD?


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## MarcelP (Jan 6, 2015)

Antonie faz fan said:


> lol, how come having 4 of them . did you want to start multi blind or something XD?



I want one in Black, I want one in White, I want one in Milky white etc etc.. you get the picture right?


----------



## Antonie faz fan (Jan 6, 2015)

MarcelP said:


> I want one in Black, I want one in White, I want one in Milky white etc etc.. you get the picture right?



yeah i understand  . next up black 13x13, white 13x13, original plastic 13x13 etc etc


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## MarcelP (Jan 6, 2015)

Antonie faz fan said:


> yeah i understand  . next up black 13x13, white 13x13, original plastic 13x13 etc etc



LOL.. I do not even have 8X8..


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## mark49152 (Jan 6, 2015)

MarcelP said:


> I have 4 SuLongs and NONE come even close in performance and feel. The pieces are different. If they would have said rebranded GuanLong I would believe it. But still I have only two GuanLongs and they have no rings (I forgot how you call them). GuanLong is slower than Formula.


Strange. See this video and the comments underneath: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Myx2DdrVEn4 

Also on formulacube.com they say it's based on SuLong although it's not really clear whether "all new mechanism" is marketing spiel or means modified from the SuLong: "Formula magic cube is a new brand cube designed and produced by Yongjun Co. Ltd. Based on the advantages of Sulong, it looks like sulong but provides safer and smoother operation experience, with brand new appearance and more affordable price. Formula cube has an all new mechanism with faster movement, amazing corner cutting and zero pops. It is a Rubik's cube specially designed for contest, its quality is of contest level."

I wonder what the truth is? Do the Formula's pieces resemble any other YJ cube? Can you post photos?


----------



## MarcelP (Jan 6, 2015)

mark49152 said:


> I wonder what the truth is? Do the Formula's pieces resemble any other YJ cube? Can you post photos?



Yeah, tomorrow with daylight I will make some pics.


----------



## sneaklyfox (Jan 6, 2015)

mark49152 said:


> I agree with Marcel - AoLong v2/v1 or WeiLong v2. I don't like the feel of the WeiLong v1 so much.
> 
> Formula is apparently a rebranded SuLong. Marcel, have you compared the pieces?



How is the feel of Weilong v2 different from v1? (I don't have a v2, only v1.)

Oh yeah, and new PB Ao50=13.79 (new PBs on 3x3 come so infrequent these days I thought I would post it.)


Spoiler: Times



12.95, 15.16, 16.28, 13.97, 13.57, 12.74, 12.84, 13.93, 12.26, (11.76), 13.67, 13.64, (16.54), 13.81, 14.00, (11.86), 13.61, 15.72, 12.37, 12.73, 14.07, 14.50, (16.67), 14.02, 14.65, 15.58, 13.29, 15.72, 13.41, 15.50, (16.90), (11.46), 13.21, 14.36, 13.96, 14.03, 12.09, 14.62, 14.12, 13.15, 15.95, 12.85, 12.82, 14.21, 12.39, 13.09, 13.02, 12.08, 14.47, 12.46





Spoiler: Distribution



11.0+: 1
11.5+: 2
12.0+: 6
12.5+: 6
13.0+: 6
13.5+: 8
14.0+: 8
14.5+: 3
15.0+: 1
15.5+: 5
16.0+: 1
16.5+: 3


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## mark49152 (Jan 7, 2015)

sneaklyfox said:


> How is the feel of Weilong v2 different from v1?


Congrats on the PB!

V2 feels slightly smoother and easier to control, to me. Of course, it could just be my cubes - I know v1/v2 are virtually the same pieces.

My v1 is a very early one with the older Moyu stickers (dull orange) and the small logo.


----------



## MarcelP (Jan 7, 2015)

mark49152 said:


> Congrats on the PB!
> 
> V2 feels slightly smoother and easier to control, to me. Of course, it could just be my cubes - I know v1/v2 are virtually the same pieces.
> 
> My v1 is a very early one with the older Moyu stickers (dull orange) and the small logo.



No, it is not just your cube. All my V2's are smoother in a sence that they can handle rough scrambling without lockups, And they are a bit slower so that they do not overshoot. I can handle V2's way better. But V1's are awesome for Roux. M slice are great and fast.

Congrats on the PB's Melody. I am hesitant to go back to CFOP for a little while and see some fast times again.. But I am not.. LOL..


----------



## Gordon (Jan 7, 2015)

Hi all again, I wish you also a good new year, even though it's a bit late...




MarcelP said:


> LOL.. I do not even have 8X8..



You should buy one, and the 9x9 and 10x10. They are fun.

A few days ago I registered for an event in Switzerland called 'Q'd 13'. It's like an inofficial 13x13 competition the day before the Swiss Nationals 2015.
You will have to solve the 13x13 and then you have the possibility to buy the solved cube for cheap (well, cheaper than the original price).
Therefore I started to do mor big cubes. I also timed 7x7 solves for the first time. First solve 18:50.20, second solve 16:48.09. I wonder how long it takes to get to sub 15 mins...




Schmidt said:


> @Everybody
> I _might_ buy a new cube this year, but what to choose? What is your favorite 3x3x3 cube right now?



My favorite at the moment is the AoLong V2. But I also kind of like the V1 and the WeiLong V2, like some other here.
I also didn't like the WeiLong V1 when it came out, it even took me very long to get the V2 because of this. Before I got the WeiLong V2 and the AoLongs, I liked the SuLong very much.



Logiqx said:


> I wonder how many of us oldies are programmers?



Yup, me too, old and programmer.


----------



## MarcelP (Jan 7, 2015)

Gordon said:


> Hi all again, I wish you also a good new year, even though it's a bit late...
> 
> 
> You should buy one, and the 9x9 and 10x10. They are fun.



Hey man, nice to see you here again. Happy new year to you too, I think I stay away from the big cubes. I take way to long to solve them


----------



## Gordon (Jan 7, 2015)

I agree that they take long, but somehow, atm I think they are fun.
I think they are great for casual solving.

I once did on an evening:




Spoiler



and I used some hours of the night too...


----------



## moralsh (Jan 7, 2015)

Wow, I like that pic.

As Gordon, I'm getting a bit into big cubes also, I started to practice 5x because I wanted to break in the AoChuang for 5bld, and now that I am around 3:30 I'm starting to really like the event, I also find me wanting to check how my Times are in bigger cubes, but I can still control that desire [emoji13].

I have an objective for this year, Spanish top 100 for as many events as I can. Most are easy, but some are going to be really hard for me


----------



## MarcelP (Jan 8, 2015)

MarcelP said:


> Yeah, tomorrow with daylight I will make some pics.


I did not get around doing this. I managed to open up the Formula cube and a SuLong and the pieces are interchangeble. But there is a slight difference in centers. It should not affect solving though. I do not know what makes the big difference.


----------



## mark49152 (Jan 8, 2015)

MarcelP said:


> But there is a slight difference in centers. It should not affect solving though. I do not know what makes the big difference.


Ah well, guess I will just buy a Formula cube then . Do you also have a Rephael? The same sources said that was just a YuLong but I wonder, perhaps it is different too. Same goes for Bullfight/Phoenix.


----------



## sneaklyfox (Jan 9, 2015)

Such awesome cube names. I wish I could try all these cubes without having to buy them...


----------



## MarcelP (Jan 9, 2015)

mark49152 said:


> Ah well, guess I will just buy a Formula cube then . Do you also have a Rephael? The same sources said that was just a YuLong but I wonder, perhaps it is different too. Same goes for Bullfight/Phoenix.



Yeah, you can't go wrong for 4 dollar  No, I do not have the Rephael. I am no big fan of the YuLong. YuLong is great, but too fast for me. And yes, Phoenix is 100% same cube as Bullfight. That is really an amazing cube. They have it in black now. I hope the QiYi Bullfight will also come in black soon.


sneaklyfox said:


> Such awesome cube names. I wish I could try all these cubes without having to buy them...



Yeah, great names. Only a shame they sell it in North america only.


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## mark49152 (Jan 9, 2015)

MarcelP said:


> Phoenix is 100% same cube as Bullfight. That is really an amazing cube. They have it in black now. I hope the QiYi Bullfight will also come in black soon.


Who sells the Phoenix in black? Are the pieces exactly the same as the stickerless apart from colour?


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## MarcelP (Jan 9, 2015)

mark49152 said:


> Who sells the Phoenix in black? Are the pieces exactly the same as the stickerless apart from colour?



Clickertheclick


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## sneaklyfox (Jan 11, 2015)

What do you think I should focus on next?

2x2 - learn CLL
3x3 - aiming for sub-25 OH (I think I average about 26ish)
4x4 - aiming for sub-1 (I'm about 1:08ish)

I can't decide. Since time is limited, I can't do everything at the same time. I would probably keep doing some normal 3x3 solves each week to at least maintain my times but want to focus on one other thing for maybe 2-4 weeks before working on something else. If I do 3x3 OH I was thinking I would do the 4219.5 marathon with it. If 2x2 CLL I'm going to see how fast I can learn all the algs.


----------



## lorki3 (Jan 11, 2015)

sneaklyfox said:


> What do you think I should focus on next?
> 
> 2x2 - learn CLL
> 3x3 - aiming for sub-25 OH (I think I average about 26ish)
> ...



3x3 OH :333


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## mark49152 (Jan 11, 2015)

sneaklyfox said:


> What do you think I should focus on next?


4x4. Do you have a 5x5?


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## MarcelP (Jan 11, 2015)

mark49152 said:


> Do you have a 5x5?



Yeah I was thinking that too. 5X5 is fun also..


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## sneaklyfox (Jan 11, 2015)

mark49152 said:


> 4x4. Do you have a 5x5?



Yeah I have a SS. Done some solves on it but haven't seriously gotten in it yet.


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## moralsh (Jan 11, 2015)

Why not BLD? [emoji13] 

I think sub 1 on 4x should be easy for you can go that way and later Oh or 2x.


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## mark49152 (Jan 11, 2015)

sneaklyfox said:


> Yeah I have a SS. Done some solves on it but haven't seriously gotten in it yet.


Like Marcel said, 5x5 is fun. It was the AoChuang that made it fun for me though. Maybe one for your "to get" list?


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## sneaklyfox (Jan 12, 2015)

mark49152 said:


> Like Marcel said, 5x5 is fun. It was the AoChuang that made it fun for me though. Maybe one for your "to get" list?



Well, I want to concentrate on other things first. I'm thinking maybe after I get sub-1 on 4x4 I would buy a mini Aosu (or full size... I'm still using my Weisu). By the time I'm ready to do 5x5 maybe there will be an even better cube on the market. Anyway, isn't the HuaChuang supposed to come out sometime?

Ok, so votes are in. I guess I will focus on 4x4 for the next couple weeks. Thanks.


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## MarcelP (Jan 12, 2015)

sneaklyfox said:


> Anyway, isn't the HuaChuang supposed to come out sometime?



Yes, it is allready being sold. There are video's on it.


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## Gordon (Jan 12, 2015)

Will you get the HuaChuang?

I've ordered a mini AoSu last week and wanted to include the HuaChuang, but I somehow forgot it... Well, I think I'll wait for some reviews.


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## mark49152 (Jan 12, 2015)

Gordon said:


> Will you get the HuaChuang?
> 
> I've ordered a mini AoSu last week and wanted to include the HuaChuang, but I somehow forgot it... Well, I think I'll wait for some reviews.


My HuaChuang is in shipping. My mini AoSu came a few days ago - it's nice, but the outer layers are a little more catchy, as Feliks said in his review. My times are a few seconds slower because of that. I'm going to keep breaking it for a couple hundred solves in then disassemble and retension.

Anybody here into cuboids?


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## Gordon (Jan 12, 2015)

Cuboids, sure.
I've got a bunch of them. They are fun, but because I do not solve them that much, I keep forgetting some algs, especially the Brick-Parity.

If not seen yet, I can recommend Super Antonio Vivaldis Cuboid Classification series starting here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y2QWGjCDMwU


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## mark49152 (Jan 12, 2015)

Gordon said:


> If not seen yet, I can recommend Super Antonio Vivaldis Cuboid Classification series starting here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y2QWGjCDMwU


Yeah it's good but goes on a bit. The intro is definitely worth watching. I find his solutions a bit weird though. IMHO it's much easier to solve cuboids from the inside out, because solving the outer layers while preserving the inners is a lot easier than solving the inners preserving the outers. Brick parity being a case in point - I never get it, at least on 2x3x4 which is my only brick .


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## sneaklyfox (Jan 12, 2015)

4x4 PB Ao12
1:00.94, 58.54, 1:02.91, 1:02.93, (56.72), 1:05.46, 59.64, 1:04.38, (1:12.20), 58.24, 1:02.12, 1:02.86 = *1:01.80*

A bit lucky (very few OLL parity) but still!


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## mark49152 (Jan 12, 2015)

sneaklyfox said:


> 4x4 PB Ao12
> 1:00.94, 58.54, 1:02.91, 1:02.93, (56.72), 1:05.46, 59.64, 1:04.38, (1:12.20), 58.24, 1:02.12, 1:02.86 = *1:01.80*
> 
> A bit lucky (very few OLL parity) but still!


Hurrah!  Nice one!


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## MarcelP (Jan 12, 2015)

sneaklyfox said:


> 4x4 PB Ao12
> 1:00.94, 58.54, 1:02.91, 1:02.93, (56.72), 1:05.46, 59.64, 1:04.38, (1:12.20), 58.24, 1:02.12, 1:02.86 = *1:01.80*
> 
> A bit lucky (very few OLL parity) but still!



Nice! I am actually a few seconds faster on the mini Aosu. No catching on he outer layers.


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## Schmidt (Jan 12, 2015)

That makes you sub60 :tu (if you read it the right way)


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## mark49152 (Jan 12, 2015)

MarcelP said:


> I am actually a few seconds faster on the mini Aosu. No catching on he outer layers.


Have you done anything to it?


----------



## MarcelP (Jan 12, 2015)

mark49152 said:


> Have you done anything to it?



Nothing, 50 solves and then Maru lube.. tensions where loose from the start, but it never pops. So I left it that way.


----------



## Logiqx (Jan 12, 2015)

I see Chris Olson has done a video showing how to lube the AoSu.

It looks good but I'm not sure whether I have the patience for a full disassembly and reassembly.


----------



## MarcelP (Jan 13, 2015)

Logiqx said:


> It looks good but I'm not sure whether I have the patience for a full disassembly and reassembly.



Me neighter. It will ruien my day for sure


----------



## MarcelP (Jan 14, 2015)

Just a quick update on my Roux endevours.. I have been doing Roux only for two months now. Today I had a nice Average Ao25 30.18. With last solve:



Spoiler



My first sub 20.. 

17.75 R F2 L2 U' R2 D F2 L2 R2 D L2 U' L' R D' R' B L' D2 R B

z2// inspection
L' F' L' U L F R U R' // FB, that was pure CFOP skill (9)
y M2 // hey I was looking for the blue/yellow edge but hey I made a pair (2)
U R U R2 U' R' U R' U R// Second block (10)
R' U L' U2 R U' L R' U L' *U2 *R U' L // CMLL (13)
M U' M' // EO (3)
M U2 M' U' M2 U U2 (Yeah I know) M2 U2 // Permutation of the rest (9)


[video=youtube_share;9G7P6-msKJw]http://youtu.be/9G7P6-msKJw[/video]


----------



## mark49152 (Jan 14, 2015)

MarcelP said:


> Just a quick update on my Roux endevours.. I have been doing Roux only for two months now.


Nice. Have you come to a conclusion on whether you have better potential to be faster with Roux or CFOP?

Edit: I tried your solve twice but can't get that CMLL to work...


----------



## MarcelP (Jan 14, 2015)

mark49152 said:


> Nice. Have you come to a conclusion on whether you have better potential to be faster with Roux or CFOP?
> 
> Edit: I tried your solve twice but can't get that CMLL to work...



I am sorry:

R' U L' U2 R U' L R' U L' *U2 *R U' L // CMLL (13)

I forgot a U2 

I am not sure if I ever will be faster at Roux. Truth is that I hardly practice anything lately. Maybe 10 minutes per day. Still I continue to make progress. Now that I am the 30 seconds border I might have to start wondering if I will continue. Thing is, I really like Roux. But what you said about akward moves making it low TPS is very true. I think I might never be faster with Roux just because of that. But I suck at looking ahead in Roux. Pieces are all over the cube except in the left block. That makes it quite hard for me. Advanced Roux user have no problem with this. They seem to know where all the pieces are. And L6E (last six edges) is very important to know how to look ahead. I am getting better at it, but still I am beyond beginner level. Most people that even have never donw Roux are faster than me at it


----------



## sneaklyfox (Jan 16, 2015)

Very nice Roux solve. I'm sure I couldn't have done that.


----------



## sk8erman41 (Jan 16, 2015)

Rocky0701 said:


> Hey, are you guys going to get the HuaChuang? I still haven't gotten an AoChuang so if it gets good reviews then I will definitely get it.


Got mine last Friday and have been breaking it in throughout the week. First impressions were that it was an improvement over the AoChuang but not a gigantic one. Finally disassembled, cleaned, and lubed it this morning and WOW! This thing is now awesome! Still playing with the tensions and need to get that right, but it really does feel just like the AoSu/WeiSu difference. Both great cubes, AoSu better. AoChuang is good, HuaChuang better. It does feel somewhat catchy during 3x3 stage as stated in Feliks' video, but I think that might be a tension issue that I am working on. Overall, I would say that if you already have an AoChuang its pretty darn good and you may not want to spend the extra money on the HuaChuang (but if you do you won't be disappointed), but if you don't already have one, DEFINITELY go for the HuaChuang.


----------



## mark49152 (Jan 16, 2015)

Yeah I don't like the feel of my HuaChuang as much as my AoChuang, but at least it doesn't have a seizure every third solve. Perhaps I just need to tension and lube. I'll do that once it's better broken in.


----------



## sk8erman41 (Jan 16, 2015)

mark49152 said:


> Yeah I don't like the feel of my HuaChuang as much as my AoChuang, but at least it doesn't have a seizure every third solve. Perhaps I just need to tension and lube. I'll do that once it's better broken in.



It is a total pain to disassemble and put back together, but totally worth it. And even though its tough, its easier than an AoSu


----------



## mark49152 (Jan 17, 2015)

sk8erman41 said:


> It is a total pain to disassemble and put back together, but totally worth it. And even though its tough, its easier than an AoSu


I'll wait until I've done something bad, then inflict it on myself as punishment


----------



## Gordon (Jan 17, 2015)

Today I've also ordered a HuaChuang together with some GuanLong.
I've felt like I have to with the current exchange rate from $ to CHF 

I've never disassembled a cube that is bigger than a 4x4. I guess I would not be able to put it back together...


----------



## sneaklyfox (Jan 17, 2015)

Whoopiee, I'm on a roll! New PB Ao100!



Spoiler



PB Ao100=13.89
Time distribution:
11.0+: 2
11.5+: 8
12.0+: 10
12.5+: 12
13.0+: 11
13.5+: 13
14.0+: 12
14.5+: 6
15.0+: 6
15.5+: 9
16.0+: 4
16.5+: 2
17.0+: 3
17.5+: 1
18.0+: 0
18.5+: 0
19.0+: 0
19.5+: 0
20.0+: 0
20.5+: 0
21.0+: 0
21.5+: 0
22.0+: 1



Edit: Continued solving and Ao100=14.14
Edit: Spoke too soon. Ao100=13.89


----------



## MarcelP (Jan 17, 2015)

sneaklyfox said:


> Whoopiee, I'm on a roll! New PB Ao100!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Nice! With 22 being the worst score.. that is really nice


----------



## MarcelP (Jan 18, 2015)

New Ao25 Roux PB  



Spoiler



Gegenereerd door csTimer op 2015-1-18
solves/totaal: 25/25

enkele
Beste: 20.00
Slechtste: 32.66

mean van 3
Actuele: 27.85 (σ = 2.73)
Beste: 24.76 (σ = 4.61)

avg of 5
Actuele: 28.05 (σ = 2.39)
Beste: 27.30 (σ = 6.06)

avg of 12
Actuele: 28.62 (σ = 2.83)
Beste: 27.77 (σ = 3.49)

Gemiddelde: 28.10 (s = 2.50)
*Mean: 27.84*

Lijst met tijden:
1. 27.33 D2 B' D' F2 R' D R2 F2 U2 D2 F' U2 F D2 L R' D' R' D' L U2 L' U2 F U 
2. 23.11 D L' R' U2 D R' F2 L' R' U D' F R' D2 R D' L B' U' L D B U' D2 R' 
3. 30.48 B D L2 U' B R' L2 F2 D' B2 U R L' F' L R' B2 U2 F2 B' R2 D' F' R F 
4. 31.15 R' U2 R2 F L' F R' D' R L F' L' B' U2 L R D' L F' U2 D2 R F2 L' D 
5. 26.83 D2 B F D' F R2 B' R' L2 F' B' L' R D2 L' R2 D' L R D U2 B' F' D' U2 
6. 26.88 L' U' R2 F2 U D' F' B' R' F2 L F2 B2 L' F2 R U R D R' D2 F' D2 B D2 
7. 29.63 U2 D2 F' L D' U R2 F2 R2 U' D L' B L' R' D B' F2 R' L2 U F' R2 L' U' 
8. 26.20 U L' B' L2 U' B F R' B2 D B L' R' D L' U2 L R2 F L2 F R2 B F' D2 
9. 29.20 D B' F D' B' F2 L2 R' D U2 R' U2 F2 L F' D R L2 F2 R F2 D U' L2 D 
10. 25.17 F D F' R D' F' L U' F L' U' D B2 U D2 F R' B R2 D U R2 B2 F R 
11. 30.88 D F' R2 L2 B D' L D' L B D2 L' U' D R2 D' F2 B2 D R B' U2 L2 F2 D2 
12. 29.66 B2 F U' R2 F L' R2 D B2 R U' F2 R' B R' D2 R F' L2 D2 F' B' U D2 L 
13. 20.51 F2 L F2 R U2 B' D' U F' R' L B D U F R2 F2 R' L B2 F2 R U2 D2 L2 
14. 32.18 L2 R' B2 L2 U2 F' D' B U2 B' U2 R' B U' B2 U2 L U F L R2 D L2 D L 
15. 32.66 R B2 L' F' B' L U2 L' U2 B2 U2 D2 F2 R2 D B2 R' L D' L R B D2 U B' 
16. 29.20 F' R2 B D2 U' F' U' R' L' D F L F' B D2 R F D U2 F2 R U L' U2 F 
17. 20.00 U2 D' L B2 D F2 L B2 D' R2 B L' F2 U' D' L2 R U' R' U' D2 L2 B' L R2 
18. 25.06 F' L2 B2 R' U' L2 D' B' U' R2 D U2 F L U2 R2 F2 B L D2 L2 B' U' D' B' 
19. 30.42 D2 F' U' F B' R U' B2 D2 R L D2 L' U2 L2 B R' B2 D2 B' F' L2 B F D 
20. 27.86 B D2 R' U F' L B U2 L U' R D2 R U' R' B F' R D U2 R F B' D L 
21. 32.55 F2 U2 L' D2 L2 F2 U L' R2 D2 B F' R B' U B2 R' U2 F U2 B' R2 L2 F2 R2 
22. 25.36 B' L' U2 D2 B2 D' U2 R' U2 R' B' D L' R2 U' R F' L' R' D' R U2 D' B D' 
23. 28.86 D2 L' B2 R2 B F R2 L2 B' L' D' B' F' D2 B' L' D U2 B2 U' B2 L F' D' B' 
24. 29.94 F' R' U L' F R2 B2 U2 B L2 F' D U' R2 F' L' R2 B2 U' B2 R' F' L' D2 R2 
25. 24.77 R U F U R B' F2 R B' R' U' D' R B2 R U' L2 F U L2 F B2 U F' B'


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## sneaklyfox (Jan 18, 2015)

Nice, Marcel! I'm looking forward to seeing your Roux times beat your CFOP times.


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## Gordon (Jan 19, 2015)

Is the 20.00 your Roux-Single-PB? 
And are you more happy with the 20.00 or does it bother you that it is not 19.99?

Because I had this once in the past few days and it bothers me more than it makes me happy. It was 20.01, but it's almost the same.


Today I received my mini AoSu. I'ts realy a nice one. I like it much. I didn't think that those 2mm make such a big difference. I hope it will be soon as broken in as my regular one.


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## IRNjuggle28 (Jan 19, 2015)

sneaklyfox said:


> Ao100=13.89


You seem to have a low standard deviation for someone of your speed. We're similar speeds, and I still get very bad solves, particularly when I do stupid things like solve a white cross around the yellow center. XD I don't know how you managed to only get one sup 18. I've gotten AO100s close to as fast as yours, and although I didn't count, I feel confident mine had at least 8 of them. Haha.


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## guysensei1 (Jan 19, 2015)

IRNjuggle28 said:


> You seem to have a low standard deviation for someone of your speed. We're similar speeds, and I still get very bad solves, particularly when I do stupid things like solve a white cross around the yellow center. XD I don't know how you managed to only get one sup 18. I've gotten AO100s close to as fast as yours, and although I didn't count, I feel confident mine had at least 8 of them. Haha.



My standard deviation was like that as well.


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## sneaklyfox (Jan 19, 2015)

IRNjuggle28 said:


> You seem to have a low standard deviation for someone of your speed. We're similar speeds, and I still get very bad solves, particularly when I do stupid things like solve a white cross around the yellow center. XD I don't know how you managed to only get one sup 18.



@IRNjuggle28 and guysensei1: I guess you guys are about the same speed as me. I don't usually take note of my standard deviation. Maybe it would be interesting to compare in an Ao100. My impression is that if your standard deviation is higher at the same speed then you have greater potential or it's easier to become faster because whereas I can only get faster at what I am already doing, you can do that plus eliminate the errors with more practice.

I get very few sup-20 times and if I do, it's always because I've made an error which I'm pretty sure that 22 was in my Ao100. I've done white cross around yellow center (or vice versa) before, but very infrequently nowadays. Sometimes but rather infrequently I mess up my cross. Occasionally, I mess up F2L (like pairing white-blue-orange corner with blue-red edge). But these don't happen often.


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## MarcelP (Jan 19, 2015)

Gordon said:


> Is the 20.00 your Roux-Single-PB? .



No, I have a sub 18 on camera 

Clickertheclick



sneaklyfox said:


> Sometimes but rather infrequently I mess up my cross. Occasionally, I mess up F2L (like pairing white-blue-orange corner with blue-red edge). But these don't happen often.



With me it is mostly OLL messed up. I frequently execute the wrong OLL or mess it up completely.


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## MarcelP (Jan 20, 2015)

I just looked at my signature and realised that on Jan 14th I did an Ao100 CFOP of 19.4X which was half a second faster than my PB. The strange part is that I really do not do any CFOP solves. On that day I was a little frustrated with my Roux times and did an Ao100 to get rid of that feeling. It's nice to see mt CFOP times are also improving while doing Roux solve practice.  I have heard more people in the Roux group telling this, but I figured I would become slower real fast. Nice surprice to see that is not the case.


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## Rocky0701 (Jan 20, 2015)

MarcelP said:


> I just looked at my signature and realised that on Jan 14th I did an Ao100 CFOP of 19.4X which was half a second faster than my PB. The strange part is that I really do not do any CFOP solves. On that day I was a little frustrated with my Roux times and did an Ao100 to get rid of that feeling. It's nice to see mt CFOP times are also improving while doing Roux solve practice.  I have heard more people in the Roux group telling this, but I figured I would become slower real fast. Nice surprice to see that is not the case.


Wow! That's awesome that you are keeping your CFOP speed.


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## mark49152 (Jan 20, 2015)

Oh man, and I was hoping Marcel's foray into Roux would give me an opportunity to overtake him in CFOP


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## sneaklyfox (Jan 21, 2015)

When I was more seriously practicing Roux I think my CFOP times got worse, but I can't remember for sure.


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## jms (Jan 23, 2015)

I just read the first few pages of this thread when Marcel first started posting and his PB was like 90 seconds. It's pretty cool to see he is now getting sub-20 times.


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## MarcelP (Jan 23, 2015)

jms said:


> I just read the first few pages of this thread when Marcel first started posting and his PB was like 90 seconds. It's pretty cool to see he is now getting sub-20 times.



 And if I can do that.. any one can...


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## Berd (Jan 25, 2015)

Over 4000 posts!!


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## Rocky0701 (Jan 25, 2015)

Berd said:


> Over 4000 posts!!


Where were you a month and a half ago? Haha, just kidding. This really is an awesome thread though. I bet it will pass 5,000 posts before August at this rate


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## Rocky0701 (Jan 25, 2015)

Hey Marcel, check out this super lol scramble. I was doing some OH solves because I haven't done any OH in forever, and got this scramble on qqtimer: D U2 L2 D L2 F2 R2 F2 R2 D' U2 R B' D U R F R' D2 R B'

Solution:
X2 Y // Orienation
U R L F' UW' // Cross
U R U' R' // First pair
U' L' U L // Second pair
Y2 U2 R U' R' U2 R U' R' // Third pair
U' L U L // Fourth pair

And then last layer was extremely inefficient because I use 4LLL for OH, so the time was still 10 seconds off of PB, but the F2L felt amazing. I got a 9.146 2H prepared solve after a few tries, and then a 4.358 for just the F2L.


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## MarcelP (Jan 25, 2015)

Rocky0701 said:


> Hey Marcel, check out this super lol scramble. I was doing some OH solves because I haven't done any OH in forever, and got this scramble on qqtimer: D U2 L2 D L2 F2 R2 F2 R2 D' U2 R B' D U R F R' D2 R B'
> 
> Solution:
> X2 Y // Orienation
> ...



Very nice scramble indeed. With looking at your solution I did cross the same way leaving me two made pairs in the U layer.. But then I did other stuff then you did. Congrats on teh 10 seconds faster PB  Scrambles like this make me feel I might slow down on Roux a bit and maybe start doing CFOP again


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## h2f (Jan 26, 2015)

I had a competition last weekend. I've improved all my personal pbs: http://cubecomps.com/live.php?cid=789&compid=38
In 3x3 I've decided to solve with Fridrich becasue I've felt better with this method althoug I havent practiced it for 2 months. And in 3bld I got first offcial success and first final.


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## Gordon (Jan 26, 2015)

I had a 21.4 with this scramble. First solve of the day and bad light, so not bad for me.

Yesterday I've registered for my next comp. Swiss Nationals 15 at the end of March. Let's see if I can brake any PBs.
Tomorrow I will do an average of five in every discipline I participate to find out which I have to practice most.

My goals are:
- 13x13x13 (yes...): sub four hours.
- 2x2x2: single: sub 7, average: sub 7.5
- 3x3x3: single: sub 22, average: sub 25
- 4x4x4: single: sub 1:45, average: sub 2mins
- 5x5x5: single: sub 4mins, average... won't happen

That would be official PBs in 2x2 and 3x3 single and average and 4x4 average. Let's see what happens...




h2f said:


> I had a competition last weekend. I've improved all my personal pbs: http://cubecomps.com/live.php?cid=789&compid=38
> In 3x3 I've decided to solve with Fridrich becasue I've felt better with this method althoug I havent practiced it for 2 months. And in 3bld I got first offcial success and first final.



That were hard cut-offs. And I thought the 3mins for 5x5 are hard


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## h2f (Jan 26, 2015)

Gordon said:


> That were hard cut-offs. And I thought the 3mins for 5x5 are hard



We got very high level of speedcubing in Poland. Look at the avg's of finals: http://cubecomps.com/live.php?cid=789&cat=1&rnd=3


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## Gordon (Jan 26, 2015)

True words. Not comparable with Switzerland.
But... that's good for me 


Btw... Michał judged my 5x5 single Pb. I hope he maybe one day judge some other solve of mine, because he gave me luck


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## MarcelP (Jan 26, 2015)

h2f said:


> I had a competition last weekend. I've improved all my personal pbs: http://cubecomps.com/live.php?cid=789&compid=38
> In 3x3 I've decided to solve with Fridrich becasue I've felt better with this method althoug I havent practiced it for 2 months. And in 3bld I got first offcial success and first final.



Nice! You are faster then me at everything but 3X3..  Congrats on your results.



Gordon said:


> I had a 21.4 with this scramble. First solve of the day and bad light, so not bad for me.
> 
> Yesterday I've registered for my next comp. Swiss Nationals 15 at the end of March. Let's see if I can brake any PBs.
> Tomorrow I will do an average of five in every discipline I participate to find out which I have to practice most.
> ...



Good luck on your getting your goals. You will succeed because you are cool at competitions 



Gordon said:


> That were hard cut-offs. And I thought the 3mins for 5x5 are hard



Yeah same problem for me in Holland. All those guys are too damn fast.. I do not even try 6X6 and 7X7 and BLD in competition. Reaching those cuttoffs would mean crushing my PB's with 70% or so.. 

Btw guys, I received the new YuXin 4X4 and it is awesome..

[video=youtube_share;uGcCHNLHHn0]http://youtu.be/uGcCHNLHHn0[/video]


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## mark49152 (Jan 26, 2015)

Just crushed every 3x3 PB: 1/5/12/50/100 = 13.15/16.89/18.01/19.02/19.61. That was unexpected - it's not like I've been practising loads. What I have been doing though is loads of PLL and OLL attacks, which I guess has improved my TPS and turning accuracy.

Anyway, first ever sub-20 ao100 . For the first 50 I was on fire, averaging 19.07, but as the session went on I got nervous... around solve 80 it completely fell apart and the last 20 averaged about 21 seconds so I'm pretty pleased to have made it .


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## MarcelP (Jan 26, 2015)

mark49152 said:


> Just crushed every 3x3 PB, see sig. That was unexpected - it's not like I've been practising loads. What I have been doing though is loads of PLL and OLL attacks, which I guess has improved my TPS and turning accuracy.
> 
> Anyway, first ever sub-20 ao100 . For the first 50 I was on fire, averaging 19.07, but as the session went on I got nervous... around solve 80 it completely fell apart and the last 20 averaged about 21 seconds so I'm pretty pleased to have made it .



Awesome Mark! Nice to see improvement on your 3X3.. I think I will get back to CFOP soon so I can try to catch up with you


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## Rocky0701 (Jan 26, 2015)

mark49152 said:


> Just crushed every 3x3 PB: 1/5/12/50/100 = 13.15/16.89/18.01/19.02/19.61. That was unexpected - it's not like I've been practising loads. What I have been doing though is loads of PLL and OLL attacks, which I guess has improved my TPS and turning accuracy.
> 
> Anyway, first ever sub-20 ao100 . For the first 50 I was on fire, averaging 19.07, but as the session went on I got nervous... around solve 80 it completely fell apart and the last 20 averaged about 21 seconds so I'm pretty pleased to have made it .


Holy crap! That is a huge jump. Congrats man! Your first sub 20 ao100 feels so good.


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## mark49152 (Jan 27, 2015)

Thanks guys. Yeah Marcel, come back to CFOP - it's a little less motivating when you're not in the race!


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## Gordon (Jan 27, 2015)

What's going on??
I've just smashed my 4x4 PBs...
single: 1:30.44 (-7+ seconds)
avg of 5: 1:44.13 (-15+ seconds)



Spoiler



avg of 5: 1:44.13

Time List:
1. 1:31.97 Rw U Fw' D2 R' F' Uw2 Rw U R2 U2 Rw' L D U' Uw' B' L2 F2 U2 F' Fw2 B2 U Rw2 Uw U' B Uw2 U F Fw R D2 Uw' L' R Fw' D' U 
2. 1:47.84 L' R Rw F' Fw' R' L2 Rw2 F' R2 F Rw2 F2 Fw2 Uw' F2 Uw2 R' B2 Uw2 D2 Fw' Uw U Rw' B' U F' Fw2 B L U2 Fw Rw Fw' F' Rw Uw' U' Rw 
3. (1:52.84) L2 F Rw2 U L' Fw2 L R' Fw2 B2 L Fw2 U2 Rw2 L U2 Rw2 Uw U2 Rw' U Fw2 B2 Rw' Uw2 F2 R Fw D U B2 R2 B2 Fw' F2 R L2 B2 R D' 
4. 1:52.57 Rw D' F' U B' D' Rw U' D' B2 L' B F' Fw2 Rw D' R2 Uw2 R2 U2 Fw' R2 Fw' Rw U Uw' F2 Fw R' B F Fw2 Uw D L2 B' Uw U2 F' L 
5. (1:30.44) Rw' Fw U Rw B' F R2 Uw' L2 Uw2 L2 Rw Fw' D2 B2 Rw2 R B L F' Uw2 Fw' L' D B' F2 Uw2 L2 D F B2 D2 F B Fw' L Fw' Rw L2 U'



I hope that I can keep this level until the next comp. 

I used the mini AoSu.


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## MarcelP (Jan 27, 2015)

Gordon said:


> What's going on??
> I've just smashed my 4x4 PBs...
> single: 1:30.44 (-7+ seconds)
> avg of 5: 1:44.13 (-15+ seconds)
> ...


Yeah, my times are with the mini also faster  good stuff man!

@Mark I probably will go back to CFOP. I have reached sub 30 which was quite hard. I think I will do Royx only recreatinal only from now on. No HARD CORE practice. I kind of missed practicing CFOP.


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## mark49152 (Jan 27, 2015)

Gordon said:


> What's going on??
> I've just smashed my 4x4 PBs...
> single: 1:30.44 (-7+ seconds)
> avg of 5: 1:44.13 (-15+ seconds)


Congrats Gordon, nice improvement!



MarcelP said:


> @Mark I probably will go back to CFOP. I have reached sub 30 which was quite hard. I think I will do Royx only recreatinal only from now on. No HARD CORE practice. I kind of missed practicing CFOP.


The best thing Roux practice can do for you is help your CFOP times . Are you CN with Roux?


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## MarcelP (Jan 27, 2015)

mark49152 said:


> The best thing Roux practice can do for you is help your CFOP times . Are you CN with Roux?



I am x2, y CN. Some of the fastest Roux-ers are only x2 CN. CN in Roux is very hard because LSE depends on recognition of colors. I have no problems with the y CN (meaning I can do red, orange, blue and green as Left Block) because I am CN in CFOP. I recognise pairs in any color. I have not yet started to learn CMLL or do real LSE training. I bet if I would do that I would come close to CFOP times. I just do not know at this point which method I like better. CFOP is easier. With Roux I have to think really hard. Blocks are hard but are not my weakest point. It is pure anything after blocks that holds me back. I have solves with 8 - 10 seconds on first two blocks and still finish sup 20.. Argghh.. If I have a F2L in 10 seconds in CFOP my time will definatly be sub 17..


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## h2f (Jan 27, 2015)

Gordon said:


> Btw... Michał judged my 5x5 single Pb. I hope he maybe one day judge some other solve of mine, because he gave me luck



He is a very kind person. I like to watch his solves, they are so calm and fluent.



MarcelP said:


> Nice! You are faster then me at everything but 3X3..  Congrats on your results.



Thanks. I'm slowly improving.




MarcelP said:


> Btw guys, I received the new YuXin 4X4 and it is awesome..
> 
> http://youtu.be/uGcCHNLHHn0



I was scrambling 4x4 in competiton for a top cubers and their cubes were Moyu's and modede SS. I got Aosu too but I've felt big difference between mine and for example Kaleta's Aosu. I dont know if it's a matter of lubrification or maybe the cube had so many solves.


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## Gordon (Jan 27, 2015)

MarcelP said:


> Yeah, my times are with the mini also faste



I kind of like my regular size more, it's much more easy to turn, but on the other hand, I like the size of the smaller one more...
In german you would say 'Zwickmühle' for this dilema.


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## h2f (Jan 27, 2015)

MarcelP said:


> With Roux I have to think really hard. Blocks are hard but are not my weakest point. It is pure anything after blocks that holds me back. I have solves with 8 - 10 seconds on first two blocks and still finish sup 20..




Wow, you are fast in Roux. I still do blocks in 17-20 seconds. I have to practice it. I didn't because of cmlls, but now I've learnt them all. 2-look cmll is a little boring. I think you will be soon more efficient in LSE.


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## MarcelP (Jan 27, 2015)

h2f said:


> Wow, you are fast in Roux. I still do blocks in 17-20 seconds. I have to practice it. I didn't because of cmlls, but now I've learnt them all. 2-look cmll is a little boring. I think you will be soon more efficient in LSE.



Most of my first two blocks are around 15 seconds. But I do get some very fast blocks. That is when no edge is in DB  I know LSE comes with practice. I just need to find time to actually practice that. All the time I have been practicing Roux, I have been focussing on blocks.


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## sneaklyfox (Jan 27, 2015)

mark49152 said:


> Just crushed every 3x3 PB: 1/5/12/50/100 = 13.15/16.89/18.01/19.02/19.61. That was unexpected - it's not like I've been practising loads. What I have been doing though is loads of PLL and OLL attacks, which I guess has improved my TPS and turning accuracy.
> 
> Anyway, first ever sub-20 ao100 . For the first 50 I was on fire, averaging 19.07, but as the session went on I got nervous... around solve 80 it completely fell apart and the last 20 averaged about 21 seconds so I'm pretty pleased to have made it .



Awesome, Mark!


----------



## Rocky0701 (Jan 27, 2015)

Gordon said:


> What's going on??
> I've just smashed my 4x4 PBs...
> single: 1:30.44 (-7+ seconds)
> avg of 5: 1:44.13 (-15+ seconds)
> ...


Congrats man! Good luck at your next competition


----------



## Schmidt (Jan 27, 2015)

I think most answered aolong when I asked what 3x3x3 you thought was the best. I just got it and did a sub20 out-of-the-box ao5 in the weekly. I have high hopes for this cube!


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## MarcelP (Jan 27, 2015)

Schmidt said:


> I think most answered aolong when I asked what 3x3x3 you thought was the best. I just got it and did a sub20 out-of-the-box ao5 in the weekly. I have high hopes for this cube!



V2? Yeah, it is pretty good. I think the best at the moment.


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## mark49152 (Jan 29, 2015)

New LL attack PB - all 78 O/PLL algs in 3:26.97. That's 2.65 per alg, only about 20% slower than when I drill them individually.


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## sneaklyfox (Feb 3, 2015)

Whoa... I just smashed my PB single for 4x4 by like 6.5 seconds. I was incredulous when I stopped the timer and saw 45.74. I wasn't really paying attention to my solve because I was listening to a documentary on J.S. Bach at the same time. I think maybe I had a PLL skip with no parity.

Edit: Whaaaat... another crazy good solve 46.52. This was just no parity but normal OLL and PLL. Does this mean I'm improving?

Edit2: 49.94. Can't be coincidence. Three sub-ex-PB solves. Or maybe it's Bach's genius being transmitted to me through my headphones... haha.


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## Logiqx (Feb 3, 2015)

sneaklyfox said:


> Whoa... I just smashed my PB single for 4x4 by like 6.5 seconds. I was incredulous when I stopped the timer and saw 45.74. I wasn't really paying attention to my solve because I was listening to a documentary on J.S. Bach at the same time. I think maybe I had a PLL skip with no parity.
> 
> Edit: Whaaaat... another crazy good solve 46.52. This was just no parity but normal OLL and PLL. Does this mean I'm improving?
> 
> Edit2: 49.94. Can't be coincidence. Three sub-ex-PB solves. Or maybe it's Bach's genius being transmitted to me through my headphones... haha.



Very nice! You inspired me to do some 4x4 tonight.

PB single by 7 seconds... no parity. Thanks for motivating me!


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## Rocky0701 (Feb 4, 2015)

sneaklyfox said:


> Whoa... I just smashed my PB single for 4x4 by like 6.5 seconds. I was incredulous when I stopped the timer and saw 45.74. I wasn't really paying attention to my solve because I was listening to a documentary on J.S. Bach at the same time. I think maybe I had a PLL skip with no parity.
> 
> Edit: Whaaaat... another crazy good solve 46.52. This was just no parity but normal OLL and PLL. Does this mean I'm improving?
> 
> Edit2: 49.94. Can't be coincidence. Three sub-ex-PB solves. Or maybe it's Bach's genius being transmitted to me through my headphones... haha.


What?! I only have two sub 50 solves and they are both 48s. Good job!


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## Rocky0701 (Feb 4, 2015)

Logiqx said:


> Very nice! You inspired me to do some 4x4 tonight.
> 
> PB single by 7 seconds... no parity. Thanks for motivating me!


Woah, nice!


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## sneaklyfox (Feb 4, 2015)

Logiqx said:


> Very nice! You inspired me to do some 4x4 tonight.
> 
> PB single by 7 seconds... no parity. Thanks for motivating me!


Awesome! I'm glad I motivated you to get your 4x4 out then.



Rocky0701 said:


> What?! I only have two sub 50 solves and they are both 48s. Good job!


Thanks! I really was pleasantly surprised by those sub-50 solves today. I guess practicing 4x4 a lot in the last while is really helping. Also this morning I practiced untimed and I think that definitely helps my times as well. So maybe I should do more untimed practice for sure. Hmm... this makes me think I will try mostly untimed practice for the next few days and see what happens at the end of it.


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## MarcelP (Feb 4, 2015)

Nice.. and you are using the Weisu eh? Time for a faster 4X4 maybe? 

EDIT: I have been doing quite a bit 4X4 this week because of the new Yuxin 4X4. And I had a single PB in the weekly competition. My first sub 1:30  (a whole different league..LOL)


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## h2f (Feb 4, 2015)

sneaklyfox said:


> Whoa... I just smashed my PB single for 4x4 by like 6.5 seconds. I was incredulous when I stopped the timer and saw 45.74. I wasn't really paying attention to my solve because I was listening to a documentary on J.S. Bach at the same time. I think maybe I had a PLL skip with no parity.
> 
> Edit: Whaaaat... another crazy good solve 46.52. This was just no parity but normal OLL and PLL. Does this mean I'm improving?
> 
> Edit2: 49.94. Can't be coincidence. Three sub-ex-PB solves. Or maybe it's Bach's genius being transmitted to me through my headphones... haha.



Wow nice. I wonder, how to be sub 1 min, and I know - practice.  I must try this.


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## sneaklyfox (Feb 4, 2015)

Yes, I'm still using a Weisu. I'm thinking that when I'm properly sub-1, I'm going to consider getting a faster 4x4. Originally thinking Aosu, then the mini Aosu came, now I saw your review on the Yuxin recently and so I'm not sure which to get. I keep thinking that if I just wait a little longer an even better cube will come out.


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## sk8erman41 (Feb 4, 2015)

Hey all! Its been a little while since I've posted here so I figured I'd give a quick progress update. Its great to see everyone continue to improve! Marcel- are you back to CFOP full time/part time now? It seemed like you improved pretty quickly on Roux and I was happy to see that not only did your CFOP times not drop, they actually improved as well! good job! Sneakly- Nice improvement overall! Those 3x3 PB's must feel really good after being "stuck" for some time. Rocky- Wow have you improved at 4x4 since we began our race! Nice job, I am going to start putting more time back into 4x4 now (got Ao12 PB yesterday). Everyone else- keep it up!

I went to my first comp in January and accomplished pretty much all of my goals (WCA link on my info panel). I felt the nerves just briefly when I started (first 2x2 solve was 29.69 lol as I forgot how to execute a PBL) but after that I settled in and wasn't really all that nervous. I had the highest hopes for 3x3 and was a little nervous for that but met my goals with a sub-20 solve and a sub-25 avg. I participated in skewb and pryraminx just to do all events possible and to get a benchmark for improvement for future comps as I never practice them at home (until now). And my only DNF for the comp was a HUGE pop on 5x5. I had a pop on my last solve of 4x4 as well, but managed to put it back together and finish the solve. I had a great time and cannot wait to attend my next comp.

Overall I now consider myself sub-20 which feels great. I started my speed solving journey the day after the superbowl in 2013, so almost exactly 2 years to the day to achieve sub-20 lol. But its been super fun along the way and I now feel like I could have improved much quicker if I did more diligent practice and put more focus into a single event, but I am happy with my path and still love solving all puzzles. I haven't been able to sit down for a whole Ao100 lately, but here was todays Ao50 (PB also with my first Ao12 where every solve was sub-20)...



Spoiler: PB Ao50 2/4/15



Generated By csTimer on 2015-2-4
solves/total: 50/50

single
best: 15.22
worst: 23.61

mean of 3
current: 20.71 (σ = 1.59)
best: 17.09 (σ = 1.56)

avg of 5
current: 20.76 (σ = 0.87)
best: 17.75 (σ = 0.95)

avg of 12
current: 19.97 (σ = 1.06)
best: 18.13 (σ = 1.30)

avg of 50
current: 19.66 (σ = 1.60)
best: 19.66 (σ = 1.60)

Average: 19.66 (σ = 1.60)
Mean: 19.67

Time List:
1. 23.13 F2 U2 F' U2 L2 B2 F U2 L2 B' R2 U' R B' L' R2 U R D B' F' 
2. 20.65 R' U2 R' D2 R2 F2 U2 R' F2 R F2 U R' F' L D L' 
3. 23.61 R' D' R' L2 B2 R F' U2 F B2 L2 U R2 F2 U' L2 U B2 L2 U 
4. 21.30 F' L' B2 L D2 U2 L' U2 B2 L R U2 F' L2 F2 R' D L D F' D' 
5. 23.49 B R2 D2 R2 B2 U2 R2 B F2 U2 R2 L' B L' R F L' D U L2 R' 
6. 22.17 R2 B2 D2 R2 B2 F' U2 L2 B' L2 F U' B' R' D2 R2 D2 F' U' L F 
7. 17.07 B2 R2 U2 F L2 F D2 B2 D2 R2 B2 L D' L R' D R F2 R' B' F' 
8. 18.36 L2 D2 F R L2 D R' F' R D2 F2 B2 L2 D' B2 D R2 F2 U2 F2 
9. 16.76 R' F2 R2 B2 R U2 B2 D2 B U' L' R D' B2 F' D2 U B2 
10. 21.18 B2 L2 B2 L2 U F2 D' B2 D2 B L' B2 U R' U' B U' R D 
11. 18.67 L2 D2 B L2 D2 R2 U2 F2 D2 B' D R B2 F' D' R B2 D2 F' L2 
12. 20.44 R' U2 L2 F2 L2 U2 B D2 F' U2 F D2 R' U' F' R' F L2 D' L U2 
13. 17.97 R2 U2 B2 D' U' L2 B2 U L2 U L' D R D' R' U L2 B F R 
14. 17.58 F R F2 U2 R2 D2 L' B2 L2 F2 D2 B U2 B' D2 U' L' B' R2 
15. 22.84 L2 F2 U2 F L2 F2 R2 F2 R2 D2 R2 U B' D F R' U2 B R' F 
16. 15.22 B2 U2 F2 D R2 D L2 F2 D' R2 U2 F U F' L' F2 R' F' U L2 U' 
17. 20.28 U B2 U' R2 D2 F2 R2 U' F2 U2 R B D2 B2 D F' L2 D B2 R2 
18. 19.23 L2 F' U2 L2 B U2 F' D2 B2 D2 U2 L' B R2 D' R F R2 U R' D' 
19. 17.53 L R B2 R F2 R' U2 B2 F2 R B2 D' B' R' D2 B2 U B2 L' F2 L2 
20. 18.87 D2 F2 L2 D R2 D L2 B2 D L2 U2 R D F' L' R D2 L F D F2 
21. 18.49 L2 B L2 B' D2 B L2 D2 B2 U2 B2 L' F' D2 L D B2 U2 B' R F 
22. 18.07 B' L' U2 D' R' U' F B2 R U R2 F2 U2 F2 L2 D2 F2 R2 F2 
23. 15.78 L2 R2 D' F2 L2 U L2 D2 R2 D B2 R B L' F2 U R D R B2 U2 
24. 18.82 D L F U R U' F U2 F' D2 R2 F2 U2 R2 U L2 B2 U2 B2 U2 
25. 16.67 R2 U B2 U' B2 U F2 L2 D' B2 F2 L D U2 B U B F2 R' F 
26. 18.59 F2 L' U2 R' L' F R2 U B' R' U2 D2 F2 R U2 L2 F2 U2 L 
27. 19.42 F R2 F' U2 B' L2 F2 L2 F R2 D2 L' B' R F R' U R' B2 L2 
28. 19.17 F' B2 D L B2 D2 B' D F U2 F2 R2 U R2 U B2 L2 F2 R2 D' 
29. 18.29 D' B2 D R2 D L2 F2 D2 L2 D B2 R F' R2 F D2 L D B' F' R2 
30. 21.38 F2 U2 R' D2 L' D2 L B2 F2 U2 L B D F' L' U2 B' D2 L U' B2 
31. 19.91 B U' F2 D2 U R2 B2 D F2 U B2 F2 L F2 R D F R2 F D' F 
32. 23.60 U2 L2 R' U2 R B2 U2 B2 U2 L' F U B2 R D2 L D' F2 L2 B 
33. 20.47 B2 D R2 U L2 U' B2 U' L2 F2 U L' U2 L R B' D U' L U F 
34. 18.76 L R2 F2 D2 B2 D2 L2 U' L2 R2 U2 B' L' D L2 U2 R' U B' D2 F' 
35. 19.88 D2 F2 D' R2 B2 U' B2 U B2 R2 U' L' F' R B U2 L B R' U R 
36. 22.15 L2 B2 U' F2 D2 R2 B2 L2 B2 U B2 L' D2 B D F R U2 L2 F' 
37. 18.53 R2 U' R2 U2 L2 D' B2 F2 U B2 U' B R B2 D' F' R2 U2 R' U2 F' 
38. 20.92 R D2 U2 B2 L' D2 L' R2 U2 B2 R F' U L2 D' L' B2 U F2 R' B 
39. 21.23 D2 R2 B2 D L2 F2 D' F2 U' L2 U' B' U' F' R' U2 B2 U' F L R' 
40. 20.33 B2 U B2 U L2 D' L2 U F2 D' R2 L D2 F L U' L' B' L' R' B 
41. 19.25 U2 F L2 B2 L2 B' L2 R2 B' U2 F2 L' F U' B' L F D' R2 F' 
42. 16.86 U B2 F' U2 L2 F L2 B D2 R2 U2 B D B2 L' R' D' L' D U' B' 
43. 19.28 L' R2 F' D2 B2 U2 F D2 L2 D2 L2 F R' D L' B' D' B2 D2 B' 
44. 20.11 R2 D2 B2 L2 B2 R2 D2 B L2 B' D2 U R2 D2 R' B' L2 F2 L F R2 
45. 18.32 D B2 U' F2 D' R2 B2 F2 D2 U2 R2 F' U' L' R' D2 U B L' F' R' 
46. 20.84 F2 U2 F2 R2 D' F2 U2 L2 D F2 B' R' B L' D' R2 B U' R B' F 
47. 19.85 L2 B F2 U2 R2 F' D2 U2 R2 F2 U' L2 D' F2 R D F L2 D' 
48. 21.66 D2 F2 L2 R2 U' L2 D2 R2 F2 U' F' D2 L F' D2 L2 R' B2 D U' 
49. 21.60 U2 B2 R' B2 L2 R' U2 L' R' F2 B D' F2 U2 R2 B L' B D' 
50. 18.87 B' R2 B2 U2 R2 F R2 B R2 F' U' R2 B' L U' B2 D2 L2 B' D





Spoiler: time distribution



15+: 2
16+: 3
17+: 4
18+: 12
19+: 8
20+: 8
21+: 6
22+: 3
23+: 4


Happy cubing!


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## MarcelP (Feb 4, 2015)

sneaklyfox said:


> I keep thinking that if I just wait a little longer an even better cube will come out.



When I had the AoSu I never had the idea that it would have been the best 4X4.. With the Yuxin I instantly had pure love with this cube.. For only 12 dollars at Lightake I would say.. wait no longer  You will be sub 45 soon.



sk8erman41 said:


> Marcel- are you back to CFOP full time/part time now? I
> 
> I went to my first comp in January and accomplished pretty much all of my goals (WCA link on my info panel).



Hey Adam,

You did great on yuor first comp. Wow.. only 16 people went to second round.. That is insane.. I bet you would have gotten a sub 20 average in the second round 

About Roux, yeah I am back to CFOP as main method. But I do not practice a lot, but when I do prefer to do slow Roux solves instead of CFOP. it is just so relaxing. I guess I will be going back to real practice any time soon.


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## Rocky0701 (Feb 5, 2015)

sk8erman41 said:


> Hey all! Its been a little while since I've posted here so I figured I'd give a quick progress update. Its great to see everyone continue to improve! Marcel- are you back to CFOP full time/part time now? It seemed like you improved pretty quickly on Roux and I was happy to see that not only did your CFOP times not drop, they actually improved as well! good job! Sneakly- Nice improvement overall! Those 3x3 PB's must feel really good after being "stuck" for some time. Rocky- Wow have you improved at 4x4 since we began our race! Nice job, I am going to start putting more time back into 4x4 now (got Ao12 PB yesterday). Everyone else- keep it up!
> 
> I went to my first comp in January and accomplished pretty much all of my goals (WCA link on my info panel). I felt the nerves just briefly when I started (first 2x2 solve was 29.69 lol as I forgot how to execute a PBL) but after that I settled in and wasn't really all that nervous. I had the highest hopes for 3x3 and was a little nervous for that but met my goals with a sub-20 solve and a sub-25 avg. I participated in skewb and pryraminx just to do all events possible and to get a benchmark for improvement for future comps as I never practice them at home (until now). And my only DNF for the comp was a HUGE pop on 5x5. I had a pop on my last solve of 4x4 as well, but managed to put it back together and finish the solve. I had a great time and cannot wait to attend my next comp.
> 
> ...


Congratulations man! Sub 20 is a huge deal


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## sneaklyfox (Feb 5, 2015)

@sk8terman41: Good job on your first comp!


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## mark49152 (Feb 5, 2015)

Nice to see the progress reports on this thread, especially sneakly's 4x4 awesomeness 

I also now consider myself sub-20, just about, I think. My last three ao100s were sub-20, eight of my last 12 bao50s were sub-20, with four sub-19.5, and the ao12 of those most recent bao50 results was 19.89. Does that make me sub-20...?


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## Rocky0701 (Feb 5, 2015)

mark49152 said:


> Nice to see the progress reports on this thread, especially sneakly's 4x4 awesomeness
> 
> I also now consider myself sub-20, just about, I think. My last three ao100s were sub-20, eight of my last 12 bao50s were sub-20, with four sub-19.5, and the ao12 of those most recent bao50 results was 19.89. Does that make me sub-20...?


Yeah, I would say you've been sub 20 for a while now. Congrats! It's pretty cool that we all have kind of motivated each other past sub 20


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## MarcelP (Feb 5, 2015)

mark49152 said:


> Nice to see the progress reports on this thread, especially sneakly's 4x4 awesomeness
> Does that make me sub-20...?



Definatly!  .. I had a 21.xx Ao100 this week.. Blehhh In my defence, I was using all kinds of cubes..


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## mark49152 (Feb 6, 2015)

Hurrah, confirmed sub-20 then . That will make me even more annoyed next time I get a 21.xx average 

So... what's the next 3x3 target? 19 or 18 aren't as round as 20, and 15 is too far off. What to do?


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## Rocky0701 (Feb 6, 2015)

mark49152 said:


> Hurrah, confirmed sub-20 then . That will make me even more annoyed next time I get a 21.xx average
> 
> So... what's the next 3x3 target? 19 or 18 aren't as round as 20, and 15 is too far off. What to do?


What I did was work on getting to 17.5 because it's half way to sub 15. Or you could just take it second by second.


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## mark49152 (Feb 6, 2015)

Rocky0701 said:


> What I did was work on getting to 17.5 because it's half way to sub 15. Or you could just take it second by second.


Took me a long time to get to 20 so second by second for regular 2H 3x3. Might get a stackmat and shoot for sub-20 with that. Or maybe dual CN. Or maybe sub-25 3x3 stage on 4x4 - that would help lookahead


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## Rocky0701 (Feb 6, 2015)

mark49152 said:


> Took me a long time to get to 20 so second by second for regular 2H 3x3. Might get a stackmat and shoot for sub-20 with that. Or maybe dual CN. Or maybe sub-25 3x3 stage on 4x4 - that would help lookahead


Yeah it would be good to get a stackmat to practice with. When I first got one I was like super afraid that it would make my times go up a little bit, but they are about the same as doing it with a keyboard.


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## MarcelP (Feb 6, 2015)

Mark,

Do not forget that you are not sub 20 untill you post some kind of evidence  LOL... A ao12 would be fine.. 

Today I had a better session. 108 solves but not sub 20.. 20.85 However, some very cool ao12's in there (best Ao12 18.24) and some very nice singles (15's en 16's) and this one:



Spoiler



*13.06* R B' R B D F R B U L2 D2 F B2 D2 B2 U2 F R2 B U2 

13.06 R B' R B D F R B U L2 D2 F B2 D2 B2 U2 F R2 B U2 

y// inspection
D U' R' F R U2 L2 //cross (7)
R' U R U' R' U' R //1ST (14)
U L' U L //2ND (21)
U' R U2 R' U R U R' //3RD (29)
y2 (yeah I know U' ( R U' R') //4TH (35)
r U R' U' L' U R U' x' //OLL (43)
U2 R2 U' R' U' R U R U R U' R U' // PLL (57)

4.3TPS


[video=youtube_share;TniogE7BNbk]http://youtu.be/TniogE7BNbk[/video]


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## Logiqx (Feb 6, 2015)

How's the Roux going Marcel? I now consider myself sub-40 with 24.24/34.04/35.48/38.04 today (1/5/12/50).

My 4x4 averages also improved by 5 seconds yesterday. I don't know about my other events (2x2, 5x5, 3x3 OH) because I've only been doing them untimed recently.

I suspect my bouncing around multiple events isn't conducive to progress but as long as my times keep improving, I'll stick with the variety approach.


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## MarcelP (Feb 6, 2015)

Logiqx said:


> How's the Roux going Marcel? I now consider myself sub-40 with 24.24/34.04/35.48/38.04 today (1/5/12/50).



Nice times!  I have stopped doing Roux only practice. I was starting to lose PLL's and OLL's. My CFOP times where going up. That's when I thought I have to choose now. I am more of a CFOP guy. I still do a few Roux solves per day. I hope to be fast at it one day. I have had big sub 30 averages. After doing almost 3 months Roux I was expecting to be faster by now. A bit disappointing


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## Logiqx (Feb 6, 2015)

MarcelP said:


> Nice times!  I have stopped doing Roux only practice. I was starting to lose PLL's and OLL's. My CFOP times where going up. That's when I thought I have to choose now. I am more of a CFOP guy. I still do a few Roux solves per day. I hope to be fast at it one day. I have had big sub 30 averages. After doing almost 3 months Roux I was expecting to be faster by now. A bit disappointing



Thanks. Looking back through my records (Excel) my Roux times have been nearly identical to my CFOP times at the same number of timed solves. It's almost felt like I've been learning from scratch but it's been fun. I've not reached 1000 timed Roux solves yet and timed solves probably account for at least half of my total solves. I can see masses of room for improvement yet so I'll keep at it with the time available.

I was on a course earlier this week and I did a CFOP Ao50 in my hotel room (first timed CFOP session in months) and it was 21.6. That's only fractionally slower than I was before playing with Roux and other events so I don't mind the drop in performance. It's nice to be (slowly) improving at a few different things.


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## MarcelP (Feb 7, 2015)

Logiqx said:


> It's almost felt like I've been learning from scratch



Yeah, I had the same feeling. How ever.. it took me 8 - 12 months to become sub 30 I think with CFOP. So it is really not so bad..


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## Gordon (Feb 17, 2015)

Hi all, what's going on?
It's quiet here lately... did I miss something?

Who of you, besides Marcel, has the YuXin 4x4? What are your thoughts?

Ive received mine a week ago and first I was like woow!! 
But at that time I had some troubles with my wrist, so I could not cube like usual. Now that my wrist is well again, I did an average of 5 with it and I do not like it that much anymore. 
It is still a great cube and I get coparable times with it, but I have lot's of lock-ups. Maybe I'll have to use it more to get rid of it... Let's do another average of 5


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## MarcelP (Feb 17, 2015)

Gordon said:


> Hi all, what's going on?
> It's quiet here lately... did I miss something?
> 
> Who of you, besides Marcel, has the YuXin 4x4? What are your thoughts?
> ...



Yeah, it is quiet in here LOL. I have not been cubing a lot. I picked up piano playing and putting most of my free time in that.  I have the Funs GuangYing too. I really like that cube. It is very fast. Maybe too fast. Right now it is not replacing my main (Cyclone Boys). I like the Yuxin 4x4 a lot. After using it for two weeks I put in a few drops Maru and it was so smooth and fast. AoSu and mini AoSu are maybe more stable. Less locks, but also 50% slower. My times on Yuxin are definatly better. anyway, for only 12 - 14 dollar it is really competitive to MoYu.

EDIT: But when I do cube, I get many 14's and 15's. Something is changing. My averages are still same (low 20's) but I feel a progression is on the way.


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## sneaklyfox (Feb 17, 2015)

MarcelP said:


> Yeah, it is quiet in here LOL. I have not been cubing a lot. I picked up piano playing and putting most of my free time in that.  I have the Funs GuangYing too. I really like that cube. It is very fast. Maybe too fast. Right now it is not replacing my main (Cyclone Boys). I like the Yuxin 4x4 a lot. After using it for two weeks I put in a few drops Maru and it was so smooth and fast. AoSu and mini AoSu are maybe more stable. Less locks, but also 50% slower. My times on Yuxin are definatly better. anyway, for only 12 - 14 dollar it is really competitive to MoYu.
> 
> EDIT: But when I do cube, I get many 14's and 15's. Something is changing. My averages are still same (low 20's) but I feel a progression is on the way.



If I were to buy another 4x4 cube right now I would probably try the Yuxin because it's cheaper. But I heard it has almost no reverse corner cutting. Or I would get mini AoSu if not Yuxin. But I'm not going to get a 4x4 now. I'm waiting for Moyu to come out with the next cube that does both... doesn't lock up AND fast.

Awesome about getting more faster times, Marcel. Inb4 sub-15 Ao5.


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## h2f (Feb 17, 2015)

MarcelP said:


> Yeah, it is quiet in here LOL. I have not been cubing a lot. I picked up piano playing and putting most of my free time in that.  I have the Funs GuangYing too. I really like that cube. It is very fast. Maybe too fast. Right now it is not replacing my main (Cyclone Boys). I like the Yuxin 4x4 a lot. After using it for two weeks I put in a few drops Maru and it was so smooth and fast. AoSu and mini AoSu are maybe more stable. Less locks, but also 50% slower. My times on Yuxin are definatly better. anyway, for only 12 - 14 dollar it is really competitive to MoYu.
> 
> EDIT: But when I do cube, I get many 14's and 15's. Something is changing. My averages are still same (low 20's) but I feel a progression is on the way.



I was just wondering, how you are. I saw you playing piano on yt. After few months in Roux I'm back to CFOP. I've back before competitions 3 weeks ago. And the break from CFOP gives me now a little progress. I'm sub-25 in ao 100, have a lot of low 20's and 22's. But only a few sub-20 solves. I hope to be sub-23 soon. And it's nice to see you noticed a little progress too.  I think I will back to Roux when I will need a break again.


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## MarcelP (Feb 17, 2015)

h2f said:


> I hope to be sub-23 soon.



Just lay off the BLD for a while . LOL.. You will be sub 23 in no time 

@Sneakly I just tested corner cutting and reverse corner cutting on MoYu and Yuxin. Yuxin does better in both cases.


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## sneaklyfox (Feb 18, 2015)

MarcelP said:


> Just lay off the BLD for a while . LOL.. You will be sub 23 in no time
> 
> @Sneakly I just tested corner cutting and reverse corner cutting on MoYu and Yuxin. Yuxin does better in both cases.



Thanks for that. So then, I wonder what causes the lock ups?


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## MarcelP (Feb 18, 2015)

sneaklyfox said:


> Thanks for that. So then, I wonder what causes the lock ups?



I think the core is less stable. That's probably why it is faster too.


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## MarcelP (Feb 18, 2015)

The Fangshi GuangYing is a very nice cube. I had a nice sub 20 average today. Here a few solves from an Ao12. (removed some less spectaculair solves). I remember clearly loosing my mind over gettingf a 16 seconds solve a year ago or so.. LOL


Spoiler



1. 16.03 R' L2 B2 D2 L2 D2 R2 F' D2 B F2 D' R2 D B' D2 R' B D 
2. 16.56(+2) R' U2 B R U' F2 R2 B D R F2 L2 U2 D2 R U2 D2 R' F2 L' 
3. 16.35 U2 F2 R2 D' B2 U L2 B2 F D L' R2 D' R U' L' F L R2 
4. 19.69 L' F2 R' U2 D' B D' L' U' L' B2 L' D2 R' D2 B2 R U2 L' 
5. 19.77 F2 D' R F2 B D' B' R F2 L B' D2 R2 F' U2 L2 U2 F2 R2 D2 F' 
6. 19.96(+2) D2 B R2 F' L2 R2 B' F R2 U2 F' L' U' B' R' D2 B' R2 D L2 U'


[video=youtube_share;nnW5kqRJjdQ]http://youtu.be/nnW5kqRJjdQ[/video]


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## sneaklyfox (Feb 18, 2015)

Nice solves, Marcel!


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## MarcelP (Feb 19, 2015)

sneaklyfox said:


> Nice solves, Marcel!



Thanks!


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## sneaklyfox (Feb 19, 2015)

h2f said:


> I was just wondering, how you are. I saw you playing piano on yt.



I had to check that out after reading h2f's comment, of course. Did you teach yourself to play? Do you play other instruments? Very nice for only 4 weeks!


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## MarcelP (Feb 19, 2015)

sneaklyfox said:


> I had to check that out after reading h2f's comment, of course. Did you teach yourself to play? Do you play other instruments? Very nice for only 4 weeks!



Actually that was in two weeks. LOL.. I played drums as a kid. Started at age 9 until about 18 years old. So I have a sense of rhythm. But I have no sense of keeping tune when singing, or I am not able to hear what note is played. I figure that will come with time. Playing piano is really a lot harder than I figured. But I like it so much. You are a piano (as well violin)- teacher right? This song you watched on my Youtube Watching Lara from Yann Tiersen is pretty much the easiest song I could find to start out with. I have been starting on several songs but all are to hard for me to learn it real quick.. So right now I am working on:
-First couple of (cool) lines from Fur Elise
-The river flows in you
-Imagine, John Lennon (Cooler as that does it not get)
-comptine d'un autre été - yann tiersen ( can do all parts with left, and with right but just not together.. ARGGG!!)

 Do you have a suggestion for me what is nice and easy to learn?


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## sneaklyfox (Feb 19, 2015)

MarcelP said:


> Actually that was in two weeks. LOL.. I played drums as a kid. Started at age 9 until about 18 years old. So I have a sense of rhythm. But I have no sense of keeping tune when singing, or I am not able to hear what note is played. I figure that will come with time. Playing piano is really a lot harder than I figured. But I like it so much. You are a piano (as well violin)- teacher right? This song you watched on my Youtube Watching Lara from Yann Tiersen is pretty much the easiest song I could find to start out with. I have been starting on several songs but all are to hard for me to learn it real quick.. So right now I am working on:
> -First couple of (cool) lines from Fur Elise
> -The river flows in you
> -Imagine, John Lennon (Cooler as that does it not get)
> ...



Two weeks... even better! I can see you have some experience with rhythm just from the way you slowed down at the end of the song. Tuning is different, but with a piano/keyboard, you don't have to worry about that either unless you plan on singing aolong. Yes, I teach piano as well as violin. Right now with my big family and reduced students, all my (3) students are piano students, actually. I only teach classical music so of the songs you mentioned I only recognize Fur Elise (and for some reason I really don't like it, maybe because Beethoven has written many more better songs but Fur Elise is more famous than I think it deserves.) I'm not sure what would be easy for you to learn that you might find more interesting to learn. Typically for my beginner students they practice playing very easy simplistic things just to know and practice how to move their fingers properly. For you, I would suggest finding things that you like and may be easier (looks like you already found some) and just working at it slowly.

Like, for the the piece you can do hands separately, practice until you can do it very easily hands separately. Then work at it piece by piece. Line by line. If not a line then two bars or one more or a few notes. Think of it like you are a baby at the piano right now. A very young baby needs his food pureed very fine and given in very small spoonfuls. A bigger baby doesn't need it chopped up as fine. Adults chew their own food and can swallow bigger pieces. But then it also depends on how hard your song is. An easy song is mashed potatoes. A hard song is well done steak. Even an adult will need to use a knife to cut up his steak before eating it.


----------



## MarcelP (Feb 19, 2015)

sneaklyfox said:


> Two weeks... even better! I can see you have some experience with rhythm just from the way you slowed down at the end of the song. Tuning is different, but with a piano/keyboard, you don't have to worry about that either unless you plan on singing aolong. Yes, I teach piano as well as violin. Right now with my big family and reduced students, all my (3) students are piano students, actually. I only teach classical music so of the songs you mentioned I only recognize Fur Elise (and for some reason I really don't like it, maybe because Beethoven has written many more better songs but Fur Elise is more famous than I think it deserves.) I'm not sure what would be easy for you to learn that you might find more interesting to learn. Typically for my beginner students they practice playing very easy simplistic things just to know and practice how to move their fingers properly. For you, I would suggest finding things that you like and may be easier (looks like you already found some) and just working at it slowly.
> 
> Like, for the the piece you can do hands separately, practice until you can do it very easily hands separately. Then work at it piece by piece. Line by line. If not a line then two bars or one more or a few notes. Think of it like you are a baby at the piano right now. A very young baby needs his food pureed very fine and given in very small spoonfuls. A bigger baby doesn't need it chopped up as fine. Adults chew their own food and can swallow bigger pieces. But then it also depends on how hard your song is. An easy song is mashed potatoes. A hard song is well done steak. Even an adult will need to use a knife to cut up his steak before eating it.



Yeah, that makes sense. I know it is all about practice. I am just so eager to be able to play the piano that I have no patience LOL... I am surprised you only know Fur Elise. I am sure you must have hear Imagine from John Lennon before. It is one of the most famous pop songs in history  And do you know the french movie Amelie? Yann Tiersen wrote the film music and this is the main number:

[video=youtube_share;W_0GdB4oD6s]http://youtu.be/W_0GdB4oD6s[/video]

I think it is so beautifull. All piano tutors should teach that song 

How is your skill level? Could you pull this off with practice: http://youtu.be/n4JD-3-UAzM ?


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## Schmidt (Feb 19, 2015)

sneaklyfox said:


> ....unless you plan on singing aolong....



You cube too much


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## Rocky0701 (Feb 19, 2015)

Schmidt said:


> You cube too much


OMG, that's perfect.


----------



## Berd (Feb 20, 2015)

Rocky0701 said:


> OMG, that's perfect.


I wasn't the only one to see it!


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## sneaklyfox (Feb 20, 2015)

MarcelP said:


> Yeah, that makes sense. I know it is all about practice. I am just so eager to be able to play the piano that I have no patience LOL... I am surprised you only know Fur Elise. I am sure you must have hear Imagine from John Lennon before. It is one of the most famous pop songs in history  And do you know the french movie Amelie? Yann Tiersen wrote the film music and this is the main number:
> 
> I think it is so beautifull. All piano tutors should teach that song
> 
> How is your skill level? Could you pull this off with practice: http://youtu.be/n4JD-3-UAzM ?


Ok ok, I have heard Imagine. But I really don't know very much about things outside of classical music. Well, I am so rusty nowadays. Even you could pull that off with enough practice... but I think you mean "reasonable amount of practice" and then I would say no. In my prime, almost. I know my brother can do that (the link you added). After all, piano is my second instrument only. The very ending made me LOL though.



Schmidt said:


> You cube too much


 I know I do. (Had to do it. It was too perfect.)


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## MarcelP (Feb 20, 2015)

sneaklyfox said:


> The very ending made me LOL though.



Yeah, the butt cord.. LOL There was a contest. You had to send in youtube video of your self playing that piece exact like him. There very young kids who pulled that off. Just search on yourtube: radnich pirates of the caribbean contest. I know I will never achieve that level. I do not have the time for that practise


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## Logiqx (Feb 20, 2015)

That's a great piece. Maybe you ought to learn the first few bars. 

http://youtu.be/kLbUBQYxBuU


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## MarcelP (Feb 20, 2015)

Logiqx said:


> That's a great piece. Maybe you ought to learn the first few bars.
> 
> http://youtu.be/kLbUBQYxBuU



I wish I could. But at my level the notes have to be right next to each other or else going from one to the next note causes 99% failure. LOL. I might lookinto it in a year or two


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## Logiqx (Feb 20, 2015)

Do you guys ever do one handed? I've had some pain in my right hand this week so I've been doing one handed solves while it recovers.

I've been using 4LLL until this week but I decided to learn some PLLs over the past 3 days and I'm now up to 15/21.

I timed myself today and despite some large variation in my times (alg recall / execution issues), I've smashed my PBs... -11s single, -9s Ao5, -7s Ao12.

I'm very happy with the effect of 4-5 days OH practice! It almost looks like I know what I'm doing. 

I normally do 25 solves during a timed OH session but I rolled this session for the Ao12.



Spoiler



Generated By csTimer on 2015-2-20
solves/total: 26/26

single
best: 32.68
worst: 1:08.64

mean of 3
current: 43.85 (σ = 15.83)
best: 35.93 (σ = 2.82)

avg of 5
current: 46.06 (σ = 8.85)
best: 41.38 (σ = 6.62)

avg of 12
current: 44.56 (σ = 10.29)
best: 44.56 (σ = 10.29)

Average: 48.86 (σ = 7.40)
Mean: 48.90

Time List:
1. 54.76 D' R F2 B' R U L D2 F' U' R2 B2 D2 F2 U L2 B2 R2 U L2 R' 
2. 50.96 F' D2 F2 D2 F2 U2 R2 B U2 L2 R2 U B2 U' L R B' D' F2 U R 
3. 54.74 U' F2 U R2 D' B2 D2 B2 U' F2 R2 L B2 U' F' R' U2 L2 F U' R' 
4. 59.44 U F2 L2 D2 U' F2 L2 U' L2 B2 F L' F2 U F2 U' R F R2 D' 
5. 1:08.64 R2 U R2 B2 D' R2 D' R2 F2 D L2 B' R F L' U2 R D2 F2 R' 
6. 43.88 D' L D2 F2 L2 D2 L' D2 R D2 U R' B' D B2 D2 B F D' 
7. 50.56 F2 B2 D L' B R2 D2 B' U F' D2 L2 F' R2 D2 B L2 F R2 B' 
8. 49.36 U R D' B' U R2 B2 D' R L U2 R F2 B2 D2 R' F2 U2 F2 B 
9. 44.66 U2 F L' U2 F' L2 F U D' R F D2 L2 F' U2 L2 U2 B2 L2 B' L2 
10. 47.48 B D2 B' L' D2 B2 D' R2 U' D2 F' D2 R2 U2 R2 F' U2 F 
11. 51.86 D' R2 F L2 F D2 F2 L2 B' R2 F2 D' F' R' D F2 R F L 
12. 52.72 R U B2 R2 U' F2 U2 F2 D2 F2 R2 U' F' U2 R D U' F D2 B' D' 
13. 52.75 U2 B' D2 L2 B2 R2 F D2 F D2 B' L D' B D2 F U' R F2 U2 
14. 49.03 D2 B2 R U2 F2 L' R' D2 B2 L B2 F U L2 R D L' R' U R' F 
15. 37.52 D' L2 B2 L2 U L2 R2 U B2 D B2 F D R' F2 L' B R D L' R 
16. 32.68 F' U' L2 D' R' L B' D' R' D2 B D2 F' R2 F R2 L2 B' R2 B2 
17. 37.60 R2 L B' R2 U R' D' F U F2 U2 F2 R' L' B2 L' B2 D2 B2 
18. 49.14 L' F D2 B' D2 F' D2 L2 D2 F' U2 R' D2 U2 L2 U L D' B2 
19. 54.72 L2 D2 F2 R' D2 F2 U2 L2 D2 L2 R2 F' U2 F D F R B' U B F' 
20. 1:02.21 B' L2 D2 F' D2 L2 D2 R2 B U2 F' D' L' R F' D2 F' U' L2 B2 D 
21. 32.74 D B' L' F B2 D F B U' D2 R' B2 R D2 R F2 R F2 
22. 50.28 B2 R2 F2 R2 U2 F D2 F' D2 B' U2 D B' U2 F2 U R' D' U F' U2 
23. 52.02 R' U' R2 F2 D' R2 B2 F2 D L2 R2 U F' L' R2 D2 B' R' B R2 F' 
24. 1:02.08 R' L2 F2 D2 U' F2 D2 F2 R2 D L2 B2 L D' B D2 L' D2 F' U2 L' 
25. 33.56 F2 L2 F2 D2 R2 U2 F' D2 F' L2 F' L D' F2 U' F2 L R F' D2 U' 
26. 35.90 B' L2 F2 L2 U B2 U' R2 B2 F2 D2 B L' F' D R' D B L' R2


----------



## sneaklyfox (Feb 20, 2015)

Logiqx said:


> Do you guys ever do one handed? I've had some pain in my right hand this week so I've been doing one handed solves while it recovers.



Well yes, I do OH, but I am not practicing it actively right now. I started doing OH when I was nursing kid#3 and wanted to be able to cube with my one free hand. Good time to start OH.


----------



## MarcelP (Feb 20, 2015)

Logiqx said:


> Do you guys ever do one handed? I've had some pain in my right hand this week so I've been doing one handed solves while it recovers.
> 
> I've been using 4LLL until this week but I decided to learn some PLLs over the past 3 days and I'm now up to 15/21.
> 
> ...



Mean: 48.90.. Nice. I never practice OH. Only one week before a competition. I also use 4LLL. Too lazy to learn PLL's..


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## Schmidt (Feb 20, 2015)

The ones I do differently are both U's, H, V, Z and one of the N's. The rest is just 2H algs


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## DeeDubb (Feb 20, 2015)

MarcelP said:


> Mean: 48.90.. Nice. I never practice OH. Only one week before a competition. I also use 4LLL. Too lazy to learn PLL's..



I'm working on my OH. It's tough cause I'm using CFOP. I actually have 16 PLLs memo'd, but I do them better OH than 2H, haha.


----------



## sneaklyfox (Feb 20, 2015)

The ones I do differently are E, H, both J's, both N's, V, Y, and Z. Oh yeah, and some of the U algs.


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## TDM (Feb 20, 2015)

Only U, H, Z, Na, Nb and J are different for me. For all the others, I use 2H algs.
Even R2 F' R U R U' R' F' R U2 R' U2 R' F2 R2.
And I use my right hand for OH.


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## MarcelP (Feb 20, 2015)

All my PLL's are mussle memory, so I could not do them OH to save my life.


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## Logiqx (Feb 20, 2015)

Schmidt said:


> The ones I do differently are both U's, H, V, Z and one of the N's. The rest is just 2H algs





sneaklyfox said:


> The ones I do differently are E, H, both J's, both N's, V, Y, and Z. Oh yeah, and some of the U algs.





TDM said:


> Only U, H, Z, Na, Nb and J are different for me. For all the others, I use 2H algs.



I've opted to do pretty much the same...

RU algs - Ua, Ub (really LU with a z rotation), Z, H - I use MU algs for 2H
RUL algs - Ja, Jb, F, V, Na, Nb - making use of an occasional z rotation where helpful
Other - Y (common RU alg containing x and z rotations)

Standard 2H...

RUF algs - T
RUD algs after an x rotation - Aa, Ab, E



TDM said:


> Even R2 F' R U R U' R' F' R U2 R' U2 R' F2 R2. And I use my right hand for OH.



I'll give that one a go and it's inverse when I get around to the G-perms. Those two algs are my standard 2H algs anyway.


----------



## Logiqx (Feb 20, 2015)

MarcelP said:


> All my PLL's are mussle memory, so I could not do them OH to save my life.



Have you tried solving a really stiff cube recently?

I resort to 4LLL on those occasions where the cube is so stiff that I have to use wrist turns for every move!


----------



## MarcelP (Feb 20, 2015)

Logiqx said:


> Have you tried solving a really stiff cube recently?



When I have to do that, I use Roux  No OLL's, No PLL's, just 2 LooK cmll.


----------



## TDM (Feb 20, 2015)

Logiqx said:


> I'll give that one a go and it's inverse when I get around to the G-perms. Those two algs are my standard 2H algs anyway.


Do you mean for OH? If so, don't use it for OH. It's very slow. It's only good for 2H.
(it'll be less slow if you use your left hand, but the RURyruRurruRU one that I don't know is better for OH)


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## GuRoux (Feb 20, 2015)

TDM said:


> Do you mean for OH? If so, don't use it for OH. It's very slow. It's only good for 2H.
> (it'll be less slow if you use your left hand, but the RURyruRurruRU one that I don't know is better for OH)



i use roux OH, it's not bad. there are only a few awkward moves during first two blocks sometimes you need a B of F and r moves. cmll should be easier than coll. and LSE is pretty fast.


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## Logiqx (Feb 21, 2015)

TDM said:


> Do you mean for OH? If so, don't use it for OH. It's very slow. It's only good for 2H.
> (it'll be less slow if you use your left hand, but the RURyruRurruRU one that I don't know is better for OH)



Ah... I must have misinterpreted your post. I thought you were saying that you'd deliberately chosen that alg in preference to the alternatives.

I'll be using the standard RUu G-Perms for OH.


----------



## MarcelP (Feb 22, 2015)

Okay, I broke my Mo3, Ao5, Ao12 and Ao25 today.. Exceptionally good average. 

Maybe it is just my new cube that makes the difference..



Spoiler



Gegenereerd door csTimer op 2015-2-22
solves/totaal: 25/25

enkele
Beste: 13.40
Slechtste: 22.67

mean van 3
Actuele: 19.37 (σ = 1.65)
Beste: 15.13 (σ = 2.62)

avg of 5
Actuele: 18.48 (σ = 0.95)
Beste: 16.37 (σ = 2.25)

avg of 12
Actuele: 17.86 (σ = 1.68)
Beste: 17.53 (σ = 1.49)

Gemiddelde: 18.07 (s = 1.55)
Mean: 18.01

Lijst met tijden:
1. 19.71 U F U' L U2 R D L' B' D2 F' U2 D L' R2 F L' D2 L' F' D' L' B2 R' B' 
2. 22.67 D2 R B F2 R2 D' B2 L' F2 L D R U R U B2 F' R F L' F2 R2 D B R 
3. 19.78 U L B U2 F U' F2 L R B2 F' L' F R D U' L' U2 D2 B R B2 R L' B2 
4. 18.75 D2 L R2 U2 R F2 R' F' L D' U' R2 F D' B U2 L B U2 R' U R2 F' U2 R' 
5.* 13.40* U D2 R2 D2 F2 U2 B' D2 B2 F U2 D2 B' L' B2 F2 U2 R' B' L' U B' R' B2 U 
6. 18.14 B R' U R' D' R' D2 R' U' B2 L' B' R U' F' R U2 L2 B' L' R2 D2 R B2 R2 
7. *13.85*  U R' F L U' R2 D2 U' F' B' L' B R2 D2 U2 R D F D F' R' F2 U2 L' B2 
8. 19.81 B' U2 B' R2 B' R2 U F2 U2 R2 B R' F2 B' D' B R U' F L B F' L B R2 
9. 17.13 L R B' R2 F B' U B F2 U B L2 R' U D2 L2 R F' D U2 F L' R' U2 R 
10. 18.61 R F L' F2 D' R' B' U' L2 B L R' U R' L2 D B L2 U2 B2 R2 L2 F' R F' 
11. 18.35 R' F' L' B' D' B2 R F2 B' R2 L' B' R' F B2 L2 B U D' R' D F' D R' U 
12. 18.73 F U' R' F B2 L' D U L2 B R2 D R B F2 D' B D2 L2 F U' B L U2 F' 
13. 17.01 B2 F L2 D B' L D R L F2 L R' D B2 D2 F' D2 U B' F2 D2 R' U2 F' D' 
14. *15.29* F2 U D' R' U2 L F2 B' U F2 U' L' B' R L' D2 B2 D2 F L R2 U B2 R2 L 
15. 19.46 U2 L2 U2 D' B2 R B F' D F L B L' B' L' F B R' U' B U' B' L2 D' U 
16. 19.47 F' U R' L2 D2 R D2 R' F' L R2 F D2 U L2 U' L F' B' L' D F2 U F2 D' 
17. 16.37 R' L' U' R' F2 L2 U2 F R2 F L F B' U2 L2 B2 U L2 B' D2 B2 R2 U2 B L 
18. 19.50 L' F2 R2 F' L' U' R U2 R U' F' D' L U2 D2 L U L2 U2 L2 U2 R' F2 B' R' 
19. *14.88* R' L2 B' L2 B' F L F2 L2 U2 F2 U2 D' L D R F' B R' U' R' D2 R L B2 
20. *15.47* U' F2 D' L U2 F B' L2 R' D' R D B L F L' B F2 D R F L D L2 D' 
21. 17.94 F' U R2 U' B L B2 U' L R' U' L2 B D' F R B' U' F' D' B' R L U2 B 
22. 17.92 D' L U2 F' B2 R2 F U D' L' B F2 R' D2 B' R2 B R2 U2 F D2 U F' B L2 
23. 17.63 R L' D2 U L B' D2 L' U' F' U F' U' D2 B D' U2 F2 R B' F' D L2 B' U 
24. 19.57 F R' U' R' D F2 U2 L D2 B2 D2 B2 U D' B' D2 F L2 R D' L R2 F2 R' F 
25. 20.91 D R2 D' B L' U2 B2 D2 R U L2 R' D U R2 F2 R' L2 D' F' B' R2 U2 B F


----------



## moralsh (Feb 22, 2015)

Marcel, you're becoming unreachable for me 

Logiqx, I use the ame algorythms for OH and 2H, except the V-perm that I just can't do one handed which is really weird, I should learn easier cases for OH, but I should do many other things also 

I just came back from my 7th comp, 2nd one I'm part of the organization, what a (MAD cube) weekend!

I'm quite happy about how everything went, with good results on my side also:

- Sub 20 (at last) 3x3x3 single, with 22.01 average on a different round.
- 1:28 single and 1:37 4x4x4 averages
- 20:43 4BLD success!
- 3:26 5x5x5 single, too slow to do an average here but great for me
- 46.42 OH average and also another sub 40 single
- lots and lots of fun

I hardly practiced the previous week due to work I don't know if I should do it again given the good results


----------



## Logiqx (Feb 22, 2015)

moralsh said:


> - Sub 20 (at last) 3x3x3 single, with 22.01 average on a different round.
> - 1:28 single and 1:37 4x4x4 averages
> - 20:43 4BLD success!
> - 3:26 5x5x5 single, too slow to do an average here but great for me
> ...



Nice. Well done!


----------



## sneaklyfox (Feb 22, 2015)

Nice job, moralsh!

My news:
- I just switched my alg for V-perm.
- My right index finger has some ache in the joint since yesterday so I decided now is a good time as any to practice getting faster at OH... I haven't seriously practiced in a long long time.
- Then I beat my PB single on OH with a 15.90.


----------



## Rocky0701 (Feb 22, 2015)

moralsh said:


> Marcel, you're becoming unreachable for me
> 
> Logiqx, I use the ame algorythms for OH and 2H, except the V-perm that I just can't do one handed which is really weird, I should learn easier cases for OH, but I should do many other things also
> 
> ...


Nice job, especially with your 4BLD solve. I bet that felt really good to lift your blindfold and see!



MarcelP said:


> Okay, I broke my Mo3, Ao5, Ao12 and Ao25 today.. Exceptionally good average.
> 
> Maybe it is just my new cube that makes the difference..
> 
> ...


Nice job Marcel!


----------



## sneaklyfox (Feb 22, 2015)

MarcelP said:


> Okay, I broke my Mo3, Ao5, Ao12 and Ao25 today.. Exceptionally good average.
> 
> Maybe it is just my new cube that makes the difference..
> 
> ...



Sorry I missed this Marcel. Wow, look at those times!!

What cube did you use for this?


----------



## MarcelP (Feb 23, 2015)

moralsh said:


> I just came back from my 7th comp, 2nd one I'm part of the organization, what a (MAD cube) weekend!
> 
> I'm quite happy about how everything went, with good results on my side also:
> 
> ...



Very nice! I think you are very happy with a 4BLD success right? That is awesome.



sneaklyfox said:


> Sorry I missed this Marcel. Wow, look at those times!!
> 
> What cube did you use for this?



Thanks! A stickerless Cyclone-Boys-Mugua-Jisuzhiyun I allready had a black version as my main but I received the stickerless this weekend. This cube is pure love. Super duper fast, controllable, over 45% corner cutting and no lock ups.


----------



## MarcelP (Feb 25, 2015)

My second sub 18 Ao12 in one week.. Something is changing 



Spoiler



Gegenereerd door csTimer op 2015-2-25
solves/totaal: 30/30

enkele
Beste: 15.00
Slechtste: 25.31

mean van 3
Actuele: 19.31 (σ = 1.68)
Beste: 16.59 (σ = 1.13)

avg of 5
Actuele: 20.28 (σ = 0.47)
Beste: 16.91 (σ = 0.38)

avg of 12
Actuele: 19.67 (σ = 1.15)
Beste: 17.93 (σ = 1.63)

Gemiddelde: 19.41 (s = 1.75)
Mean: 19.41

Lijst met tijden:
1. 22.08 U2 D2 L U' B' R2 D' R2 F R L F B2 D' B' L' U2 F' R2 F' B' R L' D2 L' 
2. 21.71 B2 L B U D L' B U2 D2 R F L' R2 U2 B2 U R2 L' D R U2 R U2 R' D 
3. 19.34 U D2 B2 L2 D2 F' D2 R' F2 B L' R' U' D' L2 F R2 L' D2 F' D' R' D2 B' L2 
4. 20.30 U' D2 L F' U' L2 D' L' D' R' B' U B' U2 R F B' U2 B2 D2 B2 D' B L D2 
5. 20.34 B' R2 D U2 F2 U' R' L' D2 B' L2 F2 R' B F2 D F2 R F R B' U' R2 F' L' 
6. 25.31 U' L2 U F2 D U2 B L U F B' U' F' R2 L2 B2 F R2 U2 D2 L2 B2 L2 D2 F' 
7. 21.97 U' B' F2 D' R' B L2 R' U' D B2 F' U' B' R' U2 B' R2 D2 F L' U R' D2 U2 
8. 16.05 R U2 B2 L' D' R B' F2 L2 F' U2 D F U2 B2 D U2 B2 L2 R2 F' U2 L R U2 
9. 21.22 R' B L B' U' L' F' B U F R2 B' U2 R U2 B' F R F' R' B2 D' U' R2 L' 
10. 18.76 U D2 R' B U L' F' D R2 L2 D F' L R2 D F' L2 U' D' F' L2 U F2 B2 D 
11. 17.70 U2 B' R2 F' D U2 F B2 L2 B R' L2 F' R2 L' U B' L U' F D2 R2 L' U2 D 
12. 17.35 B' L2 B2 F R' B' D' B' F D' R' L' U R' B R' D U L D' U' L B2 U D 
13. 16.68 F D' L B2 F2 D2 U F2 U2 L' B2 D2 R' B' F' L' F' R U2 F' B L' U D2 R2 
14. 21.33 B2 F2 R' D' R' F' R' B2 F2 R' D' L2 D L' F2 R' B' F U B2 D F2 D2 L2 B 
15. 16.69 U' R' D2 L2 U' R B' L' F2 U D2 B2 L F2 R2 F U' F2 U' L2 F2 D2 B' U B 
16. 15.41 B' L B F2 U2 D' B' R2 F B D' L2 R D2 B2 L R' F' D2 R2 L U2 B U L2 
17. 17.67 R F' L' D' U R2 D' L D L' B' U2 F2 D' U F R F B' D2 L' F2 R B2 D' 
18. 18.88 R' D L' F' D2 F L F' B' U D' B2 D L2 U' R B' R' L2 F R B2 L2 F U 
19. 18.85 U' F2 U' F R U F2 B2 R2 D2 B' D L' B2 D L B R L' B D' F' D B' F 
20. 21.92 B L2 U' R' U' D F' B2 R B2 R2 B L D F2 B2 U R B D2 L B2 U' R' B' 
21. 15.00 D' R B2 F' U L2 B U2 D L2 D2 R F2 D' R U' F' U' B' R' U2 L' U' R L 
22. 19.49 D2 L2 F L2 B' R' B' F' D' B' R D2 U L2 F' U D' L' D2 F' D F' R2 D' F' 
23. 18.47 U F2 R' D L D' B2 R D B' R' D2 F B L' F' D F' R U' B2 L2 B2 R2 F2 
24. 19.94 U' B U L2 U' L' D B' R' F2 L D L2 R F2 B' L2 U L2 D' U L D U' R 
25. 20.38 D F' L2 F2 U' D B' L' B D' R' L2 U R F2 R' F' D' L2 F2 U' B2 D' B2 L' 
26. 20.35 R2 D' F2 D L' R2 F' R F' R D2 F2 D2 B F U' L R U' D L2 R D2 R2 B2 
27. 21.28 F' U L R' F R L2 D L B' L U2 L' F2 B2 D2 B U B2 U D2 L F' B2 D 
28. 17.45 F' L' D U' L' F2 B' L R2 U R' D L' R D B2 R L' D F R' U L' F R' 
29. 19.78 R B D' U L' F2 U' D R' D F2 D2 R' L' F' B D B' L' U2 D2 L' U F2 L2 
30. 20.71 R F' L U F B2 D2 L' D F D2 R' F D L U2 B' D L' D2 U2 L' U' B U'


----------



## sneaklyfox (Feb 25, 2015)

Awesomeness, Marcel! I know you can do it!


----------



## MarcelP (Feb 26, 2015)

Thanks! It is really motivating to see any kind of Improvement. If I could do just more then the 25 or 30 solves a few times per week I think things might go faster  But unfortunatly I am just too busy these days.


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## MarcelP (Feb 27, 2015)

I tried the Cong's design (YueYing) for a while and it is a great cube, but too small for my hands. On PLL's I sometimes just miss the cube completely with my fingers.. So this is what happens when I put it aside and went further with the Fangshi GuangYing. A 14  I am getting 14's on daily basis now.



Spoiler



16. 14.83 U D2 B2 L2 F' U2 F U2 F2 L2 R2 F U L B U' F L2 F D 

x2 y' // inspection
L' D L R' U F2 // CROSS (6)
y' U R U' R' //1ST (11)
y U R U' R' U' y' R' U' R // 2ND (21)
y' U2 R' U R U' R' U' R //3RD (30)
U2 R U R' U2 R U' R' //4TH (37)
F R U R' U' F' // OLL (43)
(U') R U R' F' R U R' U' R' F R2 U' R' U // PLL (57)


[video=youtube_share;xyGUIQI9o3Y]http://youtu.be/xyGUIQI9o3Y[/video]


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## Schmidt (Mar 1, 2015)

So, I did my annual ao12 today. It was not as bad as I suspected with not much practice during this year



Spoiler



Generated By csTimer on 2015-3-1
avg of 12: 21.31
single
best: 18.61
worst: 28.34


mean of 3
current: 21.70 (σ = 0.40)
best: 19.77 (σ = 1.13)


avg of 5
current: 21.70 (σ = 0.40)
best: 19.94 (σ = 0.87)


avg of 12
current: 21.31 (σ = 1.51)
best: 21.31 (σ = 1.51)


Average: 21.31 (σ = 1.51)
Mean: 21.67

Time List:
1. 22.33 
2. 19.38 
3. 23.63 
4. 22.88 
5. (18.61) 
6. 20.86 
7. 19.83 
8. 19.13 
9. (28.34) 
10. 22.13 
11. 21.33 
12. 21.63 


https://www.speedsolving.com/forum/...t-from-Denmark&p=830262&viewfull=1#post830262
https://www.speedsolving.com/forum/...m-Holland-here&p=956999&viewfull=1#post956999


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## MarcelP (Mar 1, 2015)

Schmidt said:


> So, I did my annual ao12 today. It was not as bad as I suspected with not much practice during this year
> 
> 
> 
> ...



That's about a second per year faster since 2013  Not too bad though.. Nice 1.5 stddev.


----------



## Logiqx (Mar 1, 2015)

sneaklyfox said:


> - My right index finger has some ache in the joint since yesterday so I decided now is a good time as any to practice getting faster at OH... I haven't seriously practiced in a long long time.
> - Then I beat my PB single on OH with a 15.90.



How's the OH practice going?

After learning my remaining PLLs a week ago, my times got worse but I'm back on form today with a new set of PBs - Ao5 upwards:



Spoiler



Generated By csTimer on 2015-3-1
solves/total: 50/50

single
best: 33.34
worst: 1:06.72

mean of 3
current: 44.68 (σ = 1.98)
best: 36.59 (σ = 4.91)

avg of 5
current: 43.60 (σ = 0.17)
best: 39.75 (σ = 1.33)

avg of 12
current: 46.12 (σ = 3.08)
best: 43.22 (σ = 5.81)

avg of 50
current: 45.37 (σ = 5.69)
best: 45.37 (σ = 5.69)

Average: 45.37 (σ = 5.69)
Mean: 45.67

Time List:
1. 45.78 U2 R2 U2 B2 D2 F R2 U2 F2 U2 F U B' R' D R D' R2 U L' D' 
2. 46.76 F' R' U2 D' F' L B' R2 F2 R F2 U2 F2 B2 U L2 D L2 F2 L2 B2 
3. 33.47 R' U' B2 L' U' R' F B2 L R2 U' F2 U L2 B2 U F2 B2 U R2 
4. 34.06 F U2 L2 U2 F' R2 B2 L2 D2 B U' R2 B' L R U2 R2 B' R' 
5. 42.25 F U B L D R' U' B R D' R2 U F2 B2 L2 U R2 D F2 U' 
6. 52.94 L' B2 R' F2 L' U2 B2 L U2 L' D' R' F L B' R2 U' B F R' 
7. 45.66 U2 L2 B2 L2 B2 R2 B U2 F' R2 B U' F' R2 B R2 D2 U2 R' B U 
8. 46.35 B2 R' F' R2 F L' F2 D' R B2 D' B2 R2 B2 L2 D' L2 F2 L2 D' 
9. 42.49 D' B2 D2 R2 D L2 D R2 U' L2 R B U' R' B2 U' L' B' R' F 
10. 1:06.72 L2 B L2 F L2 R2 B2 R2 F' D2 R' D R' U' F2 L' F R' B F 
11. 37.06 D U2 L2 D2 B2 R2 F2 L2 R2 D L2 R' B D' U L F2 L2 B L2 R' 
12. 50.58 B2 L2 F' D2 U2 B' U2 R2 F D2 R B' U' F D L' D2 R2 D B' 
13. 39.94 F D' B2 D B2 U' L2 B2 U2 B2 D2 F R F' R' B L' R U' B' 
14. 40.89 U2 F2 D' L2 B2 D L2 D B2 D L' U' R F' L2 R' U F R2 D2 
15. 50.40 F2 R U2 B2 L2 R' B2 R' U B' R D L' B2 L F' L' U 
16. 42.34 B' U' B2 R' B2 R2 B2 U B' R' F2 U2 L U2 L' B2 L U2 L 
17. 55.61 B F2 U2 B2 L2 B2 U' R2 B2 U2 F2 R2 F D L2 R' B' F2 L2 R' 
18. 1:00.12 F2 D2 R2 F R2 F D2 F' D2 F L F' D2 L' R F' D' L B' R' D 
19. 43.79 D2 L U2 B' R2 L' U' R' B R' F2 L' F2 D2 L' B2 U2 R 
20. 46.37 U D2 R2 F L2 R2 D2 B2 F D2 U F2 D2 U' L' F2 D B L 
21. 51.51 R' D2 U R2 B2 D L2 F2 U R2 D L F U' L F' L' U B D 
22. 37.36 L2 U' D2 B2 U' L' U2 R U' B2 L2 U2 B2 D2 F U2 B' U2 B2 
23. 45.14 U F R' U L' U2 F2 U' R2 F2 D2 B2 D2 B R2 F L2 F U2 
24. 38.16 R U2 B2 U2 B2 U F2 D B2 U F2 D B L2 R' B F' L D U 
25. 47.01 L' U L' B2 D' F B L' F R' D L2 F2 L2 D L2 B2 U R2 U' B2 
26. 54.90 L U2 L2 D2 U2 R' D2 R' B2 D2 R U L' R' D R B' R' F' U2 
27. 46.11 D' B2 U2 F2 D' L2 F2 U' B2 D2 B2 F' D' L F2 R' B' F U' L' U' 
28. 38.40 R2 D2 L2 B2 D2 U' R2 D F2 D' U' B U L R B2 D L2 R' B2 R2 
29. 54.59 B2 F2 L U2 L D2 R2 B2 R D2 B2 F U' B' R2 U2 F2 U R' F D 
30. 34.66 L D L2 U' R2 U2 F2 D R2 U B2 L2 B U R' F2 D' F L' R U' 
31. 57.41 R U2 F' R2 F2 D2 F2 D2 L2 F' L2 F' D' U2 B' L' B' R' U2 F L2 
32. 45.19 B' U L2 R2 D' B2 L2 D B2 F2 D' B2 F' D' L' B U L' R2 U L 
33. 59.77 B' D2 B2 U L2 D' F2 D L2 U2 L2 R' B' F R2 D' B D' L R U' 
34. 40.95 B' R2 D2 B' U2 B R2 D2 F' L2 F2 U' B' L R' D' F' D L' U' 
35. 39.99 F' D2 R B2 F2 R' B2 R D2 U2 R' B L2 F U L' U2 R D' U 
36. 33.34 D' R2 B2 U2 L2 U L2 U2 F2 U' L2 F' R' F2 L2 D' B F2 D U 
37. 50.56 D B U' B U' B L' U L B' R2 F2 L2 U2 F2 D2 R F2 L' F2 B2 
38. 38.32 D F2 D B U2 B2 R L D L2 F R2 F L2 U2 R2 U2 F2 
39. 50.60 B D2 F2 U R2 B2 D F2 R2 U2 L2 D2 L' U' B R F2 D2 U2 L F' 
40. 51.71 F2 L F2 U2 L F2 R' D2 B2 D2 L2 U' F R B' R B2 L' F2 U2 R 
41. 49.87 D2 L2 U2 L U2 L' B2 L' D2 F2 U2 D F' L B' D' L2 U B' U' R 
42. 44.03 B2 D' U' B2 U' L2 U' B2 D B2 L2 R' U2 R2 B U L' U' L F' U 
43. 48.58 L2 U F2 U2 R2 U2 L2 U B2 D' L D U' L2 B F' R' B2 U2 R2 U' 
44. 48.26 F' B2 L2 F2 R' U2 L' D2 F2 L U2 F2 U B R D L B U2 B' D2 
45. 33.63 D R2 F2 D2 L R2 F2 U2 R U2 B2 F R B U' B2 U R' D2 
46. 43.73 L2 U2 B2 U L2 D B2 D' U' B' R2 F2 R U F R' U' R' U 
47. 42.04 L2 F2 L2 U B2 F2 D' B2 U' R2 D' B U' L' D' U' B F' U2 F2 U' 
48. 43.66 D2 F' L B D2 R2 D' B R U2 R' D2 B2 R F2 R2 D2 L U 
49. 43.41 R2 D' R2 B2 D R2 D B2 U B2 U' B' D F' L U B2 D2 L B' L' 
50. 46.96 R' B L' U D F U B' R' L F U2 B' R2 F2 L2 U2 B' D2 R2 F2


I also did a long Roux session and got PBs for Ao5 upwards. Roux times were 26.89/31.14/34.93/36.74/37.04 (1/5/12/50/100).

Last night I was doing untimed ZZ solves. It takes me a while to plan my EO but once I'm turning it feels quite nice.

Things seem to be improving steadily. Slowly, slowly, catchee monkey. 

Mike

Edit 1: My CFOP times suck now... yesterday was my first two handed CFOP session for 4 weeks and the 50 solve session averaged 23.47. Nasty!

Edit 2: That being said I was also 6 seconds slower at OH yesterday (every size of average) so I might have been having something of an "off" day!


----------



## Logiqx (Mar 1, 2015)

MarcelP said:


> That's about a second per year faster since 2013  Not too bad though.. Nice 1.5 stddev.



At that rate sub-20 is still on the cards. It's just a matter of time!


----------



## Logiqx (Mar 1, 2015)

MarcelP said:


> I am getting 14's on daily basis now.



Nice. Maybe you'll be averaging sub-15 in the future.


----------



## sneaklyfox (Mar 1, 2015)

Logiqx said:


> How's the OH practice going?
> 
> Edit 1: My CFOP times suck now... yesterday was my first two handed CFOP session for 4 weeks and the 50 solve session averaged 23.47. Nasty!



My finger joint got fine again so I stopped practicing! 

This is why I don't know about taking a break from cubing and coming back faster. But maybe people didn't mean 4 weeks of break though. But when I was practicing 4x4 last month I was slower when I went back to doing more 3x3 so right now I'm not doing much 4x4 anymore. I'm doing 3x3 and pyraminx actually.


----------



## Gordon (Mar 5, 2015)

After almost a month with little to no cubing because of problems with my wrist I can finaly again report some decent times:

Avg of 5: 22.72 [21.51, (30.24), 24.96, 21.69, (18.69)]

I would take this at my next comp in three weeks  especially because my current times average around 28 - 32 seconds.
Unfortunatley after 10 - 15 solves my wrist starts to hurt again. I hope this goes away until the comp.


----------



## MarcelP (Mar 5, 2015)

Gordon said:


> After almost a month with little to no cubing because of problems with my wrist I can finaly again report some decent times:
> 
> Avg of 5: 22.72 [21.51, (30.24), 24.96, 21.69, (18.69)]
> 
> ...



Good luck Andreas! Maybe skip practice untill the last week so your wrist can recover some more.


----------



## Gordon (Mar 5, 2015)

That's what I plan to do. Only some casual solves and training some algs until then. I just now and then do some serious warm-up and solves to see how it works with my wrist. 
I'll have to do 2x2 - 5x5 in one day. And 13x13 on the day before. That's some heavy duty for my wrist


----------



## MarcelP (Mar 6, 2015)

But it will be worth it. Not too many people have a 13X13 offical track.  Or is it no offical event?


----------



## MarcelP (Mar 6, 2015)

I wish I had warmed up before doing these first 5 solves of the day:


Spoiler



Gegenereerd door csTimer op 2015-3-6
solves/totaal: 5/5

enkele
Beste: 14.93
Slechtste: 21.85

mean van 3
Actuele: 16.97 (σ = 3.09)
Beste: 16.97 (σ = 3.09)

avg of 5
Actuele: 18.90 (σ = 2.98)
Beste: 18.90 (σ = 2.98)

Gemiddelde: 18.90 (s = 2.98)
Mean: 18.69

Lijst met tijden:
1. 20.72 D2 L' U2 R' B2 D2 B2 F2 L R F2 B' L2 F L' R2 F' R2 U R' 
2. 21.85 F L' D L' B L2 D B' L' D2 R F2 L' F2 U2 L U2 F2 U2 D 
3. 20.52 L2 D' L2 U' B2 U2 R2 F2 U L2 U F' U2 R' F D' B2 D2 L' D L2 
4. 14.93 F U2 R2 B' L2 D' L F2 U F' U2 L2 B R2 L2 U2 F' U2 F' U2 R 
5. 15.45 D2 F U2 B' R2 F' D L B' R2 F2 L2 B' D2 R'


----------



## Gordon (Mar 6, 2015)

MarcelP said:


> But it will be worth it. Not too many people have a 13X13 offical track.  Or is it no offical event?



No, it's not official. At least not WCA-official.
It's just for fun. I guess it is more to show something special for the public.
Because of the FMC Europe 2015 no Delegate was free for saturday, so the organizer organized this 13x13 event.
The official competitions will only take place on sunday.


At the moment only 6 are registered for 13x13. So if you like...


----------



## MarcelP (Mar 6, 2015)

This is my main cube. It's an absolute dream cube. Fast, smooth, controllable and without catched and corner twists..



Spoiler



154. 19.08 R2 D L2 R2 U2 F2 U' B2 R2 D R' B L' D' L2 U' L2 U2 F2 L' 
155. 18.90 F R2 F' U2 B R2 D2 L2 U2 B D2 L D' U' B D2 F L2 D U F 
156. 15.49 F D' L2 F R B' L2 F U R2 F L2 U2 L2 F' U2 D2 R2 D2 B 
157. 20.05 R D2 B' U2 F2 L2 U2 B R2 D2 F D B' F R B' F' U' 
158. (DNF) L2 U' B2 U' L2 U' B2 R2 U2 R2 U L' B L2 F2 U2 F R' U' B2 F' 
159. 19.59 L2 B R2 F L2 D2 F' D2 B D2 B2 L' B2 D' F' D2 R D2 U' F L 
160. 16.73 F2 U' F2 U2 F2 L2 D R2 F2 D R2 F' R' D2 U' L' D2 U B U2 R2 

ps, 160 solve over two days.. not one session 



[video=youtube_share;nUCzYfLCBB4]http://youtu.be/nUCzYfLCBB4[/video]


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## sneaklyfox (Mar 6, 2015)

Marcel, you and cube are beast.


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## MarcelP (Mar 6, 2015)

sneaklyfox said:


> Marcel, you and cube are beast.



LOL.. Yeah.. I am cool  NOT.. These video's make me look better than I am since I only upload good averages. The global average of these 160 solves is 20.20  But yeah the cube is beast. And it is only four dollar somehting. Amazing.


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## moralsh (Mar 6, 2015)

Gordon, you should do the 13x one handed to preserve your wrist for Sunday [emoji13] [emoji13] 

If you accomplish that, you definitely can accomplish anything.

Marcel, what's your main nowadays?
And your next comp?


----------



## MarcelP (Mar 6, 2015)

moralsh said:


> Marcel, what's your main nowadays?
> And your next comp?



The Cyclone Boys  I have no up comming competition for a long while. I think end of summer will be the next.


----------



## Logiqx (Mar 7, 2015)

Funny experience when I got off the plane after practicing OH for an hour (~45 average, 30s singles).

Random teenager: "That Rubik's cube thing you were doing was amazing... are you like world champion or something"

Me: "Thanks. No, I'm just an amateur... there are much faster people than me. Have a look on YouTube".

People are easily impressed, lol.


----------



## MarcelP (Mar 8, 2015)

Logiqx said:


> Funny experience when I got off the plane after practicing OH for an hour (~45 average, 30s singles).
> 
> Random teenager: "That Rubik's cube thing you were doing was amazing... are you like world champion or something"
> 
> ...


Yeah, I had same expirience this week riding the train from work. Only I did 2H. I do not like showing off in public so mostly
I will stop when being watched. Btw you are pretty fast OH.


----------



## Logiqx (Mar 8, 2015)

MarcelP said:


> Yeah, I had same expirience this week riding the train from work. Only I did 2H. I do not like showing off in public so mostly
> I will stop when being watched. Btw you are pretty fast OH.



I have only just realised that I may have beaten my OH PB(s). I will check later.

I don't like being watched but I wanted to get some practice time during a 5 hour flight. It would have been a wasted opportunity if I did not cube.


----------



## sneaklyfox (Mar 8, 2015)

Logiqx said:


> I have only just realised that I may have beaten my OH PB(s). I will check later.
> 
> I don't like being watched but I wanted to get some practice time during a 5 hour flight. It would have been a wasted opportunity if I did not cube.



Yeah, I also do not like being watched. Recently I was at a walk-in clinic. In waiting room I did slower solving, trying not to make so much noise. I also tried to find a place to sit in a corner where fewer people would see me. But then I got called in to the exam room. I was alone there while waiting for the doctor so I got to go full speed. I am fast to listen to the doctor tap on the door before coming in so I whisked my cube out of sight in the cube bag before she could see it.


----------



## Rocky0701 (Mar 9, 2015)

sneaklyfox said:


> Yeah, I also do not like being watched. Recently I was at a walk-in clinic. In waiting room I did slower solving, trying not to make so much noise. I also tried to find a place to sit in a corner where fewer people would see me. But then I got called in to the exam room. I was alone there while waiting for the doctor so I got to go full speed. I am fast to listen to the doctor tap on the door before coming in so I whisked my cube out of sight in the cube bag before she could see it.


I as well don't really like cubing in public either, except for school sometimes in front of my friends. That would've bugged me to put the cube in the bag half solved though haha.


----------



## Gordon (Mar 9, 2015)

moralsh said:


> Gordon, you should do the 13x one handed to preserve your wrist for Sunday [emoji13] [emoji13]



I guess I would not finish before they close the location


----------



## MarcelP (Mar 13, 2015)

Today I did a color neutral average with NO white and NO yellow. I came to a 21.xx Ao75. That is quite a bit a slower than normal I guess. I think doing averages like this are harder because you have to find a blue/green/orange or red cross and most of the times there is nothing good to start with.  Anways, I am quite pleased with the result. Here are some random (good) solves of this session:



Spoiler



1. 17.24 D2 B' R2 F2 L U2 B R2 U R' L2 B2 D' B2 D' R2 U' D2 L2 D L2 
2. 19.17 B2 R2 F D2 F' R' D2 F U D' B2 R2 F2 B2 U' R2 F2 L2 B2 L 
3. 19.81 R' F' L2 F D2 F D2 L2 R2 B L2 D' L' R' B' F' R' D2 L U 
4. 17.45 D2 R2 U2 L' U2 F2 L' F2 D2 R D' F D L' R' F R2 B D2 
5. 20.74 D B U F D R D' L B F2 R2 D' B2 U' F2 R2 D' R2 D F 
6. 18.42 U' L2 R2 B L2 F L2 R2 F D2 B' R' D2 U2 F L' D' L U2 L


[video]https://youtu.be/3A5NBRME9CU[/video]


----------



## PJKCuber (Mar 16, 2015)

Good, I;m going to be a regular poster here.


----------



## MarcelP (Mar 16, 2015)

PJKCuber said:


> Good, I;m going to be a regular poster here.



Okay, great. And how did you come to that?


----------



## Rocky0701 (Mar 16, 2015)

MarcelP said:


> Okay, great. And how did you come to that?


Cause this thread is awesome!


----------



## Logiqx (Mar 17, 2015)

MarcelP said:


> Btw you are pretty fast OH.



I'm back from my holiday and the extra practice (non-windy times of the day) seems to have paid off.

My CFOP times are almost back to normal (well, within a second of my PBs) and my OH times have improved a bit as well.

I had a fairly solid OH session earlier today... 32.54 single (full step but obviously easy), 37.37 Ao5 and sub-45 Ao50.

I don't know why I suddenly got into OH but I've been finding it fun. 



Spoiler



Generated By csTimer on 2015-3-17
solves/total: 50/50

single
best: 32.54
worst: 59.02

mean of 3
current: 43.70 (σ = 3.52)
best: 34.45 (σ = 1.66)

avg of 5
current: 44.33 (σ = 2.97)
best: 37.37 (σ = 3.40)

avg of 12
current: 44.78 (σ = 3.02)
best: 41.22 (σ = 4.45)

avg of 50
current: 44.67 (σ = 4.96)
best: 44.67 (σ = 4.96)

Average: 44.67 (σ = 4.96)
Mean: 44.86

Time List:
1. 48.64 F2 U' B2 F2 U' B2 L2 F2 U2 F2 U L' R F R D' B' R2 B' U2 
2. 52.42 R2 B' U2 B' L2 F2 L2 D2 F D2 R U' B D F L D2 U B2 F 
3. 43.23 D2 U B2 F2 U' L2 B2 U' F2 L' U2 R' F2 L2 B2 F U' B U 
4. 40.70 L2 D2 R2 B2 D F2 D B2 U' B R F R' D' B D2 L U B2 
5. 45.22 D2 B' L2 D2 L2 B2 F' R2 F U2 F' U' R' B' D2 L2 U F2 L D 
6. 48.19 F R B2 D2 L2 B2 L U2 R B2 R2 F2 U B2 F' D' B2 L2 B L2 
7. 42.19 U D2 B2 R' F' R2 D' L' F L2 F U2 B2 L2 D2 B' L2 U2 B' D 
8. 40.89 R D2 F2 L F2 D' B U R B2 R2 U2 R B2 R B2 D2 F2 L2 U 
9. 46.32 R2 U' F' L2 U' F2 R D' F2 R U2 R' U2 R F2 R2 B2 U2 L 
10. 52.51 B U2 B2 U R2 D R B D' U2 L D2 B2 U2 F2 R L D2 R B2 
11. 46.72 L2 D B' R' L' B L' D B' D2 F2 U' L2 D B2 D' B2 L2 D' L2 
12. 53.03 B R' U B2 D' R U B D L' F2 L' U2 R B2 D2 F2 R2 U2 
13. 37.96 R2 U2 B2 R2 U' F R' B2 D R B2 R2 U2 R B2 R2 L B2 R U2 
14. 58.21 R' L2 B D2 F U2 F2 R2 B' L2 U2 F2 L D' F' L F2 U F2 R2 U 
15. 58.70 D L2 B2 D2 F2 U F2 R2 U2 L2 U' L F2 U' B R U2 L' F' U2 R2 
16. 37.83 L B2 L2 F L2 R2 F2 U2 B' L2 B' L U F' R2 B D' L2 U R2 
17. 55.51 F2 D2 B2 R U2 R' U2 L' F2 R D2 U' L F L2 D' F R' U2 F' U' 
18. 33.66 D B' R2 D2 B' R2 B2 L2 B D2 F L F2 R F U2 L2 F2 D 
19. 44.68 B D2 L2 F' R2 F D2 U2 B' L2 R B' U' R D2 B' L2 R D' U2 
20. 39.30 L2 B2 U2 L2 B2 D2 L2 F2 R' F2 R U B R D' B F L2 U R U2 
21. 40.00 F2 L2 D' L2 F2 U2 R2 U' L2 F2 U B' U B U2 B L' U' L F2 D 
22. 37.72 U2 R D2 L2 D2 U2 L' D2 L' F2 L' F' L' D' F D' F' D2 B U' F 
23. 50.26 U' L' U2 F2 R B2 U2 B2 L2 F2 U2 L' U' B L2 D2 L B' F2 U 
24. 43.97 B R2 D L2 B2 U' L2 R2 D L2 F2 U2 R' U B' F D F' D2 R2 
25. 50.64 B2 L2 F' U2 B' R2 D2 F' D2 F' D' U B' R U2 F' L F' D U2 F 
26. 53.38 R D' F' D2 R' D2 B2 U R' F2 U2 L2 U R2 D' B2 D' R2 U2 L2 
27. 43.04 R2 F2 L2 R2 F2 D2 U B R B' L D R' B2 L2 R' B 
28. 47.56 L F2 D' F2 L2 U L2 B2 U2 B2 U' L' D' B' L D' R' B2 L' D 
29. 49.60 R D' R2 B' D L F' R' B R2 B2 L2 U B2 R2 B2 U R2 U2 
30. 40.24 R2 U' L2 D2 R2 F2 L2 D R2 D' U L' B' F2 L' D2 L R U' L 
31. 36.27 R' U R L' F U D2 F2 U B U L2 B2 L2 B2 U' F2 U' F2 D' L2 
32. 45.79 F' L2 B D2 B' L2 F L2 F2 D2 F' U L B D2 R D' R' U' L' R' 
33. 41.90 R B R' U R' B' L' D' B2 L2 D L2 D2 R2 B2 R2 F2 U' R 
34. 41.30 B R2 U2 F' U' R2 L2 B' R2 U2 B2 D2 F2 U2 L' F2 U2 R' D' 
35. 45.76 B U' D F2 L U B2 L' U2 F2 U2 R2 F' B2 L2 F R2 U' 
36. 35.58 L2 U2 L' F2 L B2 L U' F2 L U2 R L F2 U2 R' 
37. 35.24 R2 U2 B' F2 U2 F2 D2 L2 U2 F2 R' F2 U' R' D B2 L2 B D U' 
38. 32.54 U' L2 B2 D2 U F2 L2 D L2 B2 U' F L' D B2 U2 R2 U2 B R B' 
39. 44.18 L' D2 F2 R B2 R' F2 L' B2 R2 U2 F U2 R F2 D' L' B F D R2 
40. 46.84 R' U' B' L2 U R2 F' L' U2 R2 U' L2 D F2 U' L2 B2 D2 R2 
41. 59.02 F2 L' U2 F B U F' U D L2 U2 F' B2 U2 R2 U2 R2 U2 F 
42. 39.34 F D2 F2 D2 R2 F' D2 L2 U2 F' L' R' D' B2 L D B' U' L D' F2 
43. 47.28 F' B U B2 U L D' B2 R' D F2 D2 B D2 L2 U2 R2 B R2 
44. 44.38 R' B2 L2 F2 U' B2 F2 D' F2 U2 R2 F2 R B D' B2 F2 U R' D R2 
45. 41.07 L' B2 U' B U2 D' F U F L B2 L F2 L' D2 L D2 R F2 L2 
46. 43.05 L2 F2 U R2 B2 D U2 B2 D R2 U L U2 F' D' R F' L2 D U2 F' 
47. 49.90 R2 B L2 D2 R2 F' U2 F' R2 F D2 U B2 F' R D R B' L R2 
48. 41.16 F2 L2 F' U2 R2 F2 L2 B D2 B U L2 F' L' R F' L U L2 B 
49. 47.72 F2 B' L D2 B' L U R' B2 R2 B2 U F2 L2 U' D2 L2 F2 L2 
50. 42.21 B D2 F' D2 B2 L2 B' U2 L2 U2 R' D2 B L R U' F R2 U


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## Logiqx (Mar 17, 2015)

I forgot to say... I was using an old stickerless Zhanchi when practicing on the beach.

I'm not so attached to it as my main (should it get sandy) and there is clearly no chance of the heat messing up any stickers.

I have to say the Zhanchi is still a surprisingly good cube and it even came home free of sand.


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## MarcelP (Mar 19, 2015)

Logiqx said:


> I have to say the Zhanchi is still a surprisingly good cube and it even came home free of sand.


Yeah, but the stickerless feels and solves better imho : I don't know why.. Congrats on the nice OH single. I am about twice as slow. All my solves are over one minute  

Yesterday I had a nice Ao75. It was sub Ao100 pb. I did not have time to finish it. There was a 11.xx in there.. But U face was not aligned... so no single PB... I think it will happen any time soon now.

Here is the reconstruction:


Spoiler



47. 11.84 R2 F L F U' L2 D R U2 R2 F B' L2 B D2 B2 R2 D2 B' L' 

R L' D' F' L F2 // X-CROSS (6)
R U2 R' U2 R U2 R' U R U' R' //2ND (17)
y R U' R' U' L U L' U L U' //3RD (29)
y' U R' U' R U' R' U R //4TH (38) 
U2 R U R' U R' F R F' U2 R' F R F' //OLL17 (52)
U2 R2' u R' U R' U' R u' R2 y' R' U R // Ga PLL (66)
ARGG!! Should have finished with U'
5.57 TPS


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## Logiqx (Mar 20, 2015)

Woah. Nice single. Sub-10 seems realistic for you some day!

I just did an OH session and seeing as it started well, I set up the camera. That completely and utterly ruined the session until I got my head together quite some time later!

anyway, I just caught my first sub-30 on film. I've added the reconstructions to the comments on YouTube:








Spoiler



35.82 L B2 D' F2 D R2 U F2 R2 D' L2 F2 L R' B2 U L' D' F L' U

y' // Inspection
u' r y z' u' R u' F u2 // Cross (7/7)
U L U' L' // 1st pair (4/11)
U y' R' U' R U' R' U R' // 2nd pair (8/19)
U2 L U' L' // 3rd pair (4/23)
U' R U' R' U2' R U' R' // 4th pair (8/31)
* Contemplate 1-look OLL before reverting to a 2-look solution...
U r U2' R' U' R U' r' // EOLL (8/39)
U2 R U R' U R U2' R2' U' R U' R' U2' R // OCLL (14/53)
U' z U' R U' R' U' R' U' R U R U2 R3 // PLL (13/66)


27.70 B L2 D' R F2 D' F U R' B2 D2 B2 L2 B2 L' U2 R2 L' B2

z' // Inspection
D' U2 z' U' L y' R2 // Cross (5/5)
L U' L' U L L2' U' L // 1st pair (8/13)
U' R' U2' R U R' U' R // 2nd pair (8/21)
U R U R' // 3rd pair (4/25)
L U' L' U L U' L' // 4th pair (7/32)
U' R U2' R' U' R U' R' // OLL (8/40)
U2 R U' R U R U R U' R' U' R2 // PLL (12/52)


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## MarcelP (Mar 20, 2015)

Logiqx said:


> anyway, I just caught my first sub-30 on film. I've added the reconstructions to the comments on YouTube:



Very very cool. So slow turning and still sub 28!


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## Logiqx (Mar 20, 2015)

MarcelP said:


> Very very cool. So slow turning and still sub 28!



Thanks. Forcing myself to turn slowly is hard but I know it usually produces my the times irrespective of one / two hands.

A good single once in a while is good for morale. I'm just glad I didn't mess it up... look at that first pair insertion, lol.


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## MarcelP (Mar 20, 2015)

I had this on camera today

3. 18.87 F R2 D2 F' R2 F' U2 L2 B2 U2 F' L B L R B' R' U2 R2 D' R' 
4. 18.98 U' R F2 U2 R' B2 L' B2 F2 L B2 U2 B' U2 L' U L U B2 F' R2 
5. 19.57 R' D2 F' R2 L' B2 D B L2 F' D2 L2 U2 R2 F L2 F' L2 R 
6. 17.10 D' R D' B' U F R F' L U B2 L2 U L2 U2 R2 U' R2 L2 B2 
7. 14.97 R2 U' B2 D' B2 F2 R2 D R2 B2 L' D2 F L2 B2 D2 B U L' F'

I will upload it when I have the time


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## Logiqx (Mar 22, 2015)

Colour neutral ftw...

B2 L2 D' U2 B2 U2 B2 R2 D F2 D L' U2 B D2 L D2 L2 B' R2 D'



Spoiler



Only the second time I've had a cross skip... first time green, this time red.


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## MarcelP (Mar 22, 2015)

Logiqx said:


> Colour neutral ftw...
> 
> B2 L2 D' U2 B2 U2 B2 R2 D F2 D L' U2 B D2 L D2 L2 B' R2 D'
> 
> ...



Nice! I had 18.03 on that scramble I like red cross. This cross was cool, but the rest sucked.. 

I just tied my Ao5 PB 16.37 what are the odds.. LOL

21. 19.59 L2 B U B' F2 R2 U B2 U' L2 B' R2 B2 U' D' B L2 F2 B D' B L2 U B D' 
22. 16.81 L2 U' D2 B R2 F' L U D L2 R2 B2 R2 U' F' U2 B' D B2 F U2 R2 U' R' D' 
23. 14.67 D R B F D F' B L2 D2 L R2 F2 L' F2 R' L2 B D2 U2 B D U' R' B U2 
24. 14.56 B F L R' B2 L D L' F D B D' R2 U' F L' U L2 U2 B U' B' F D2 U2 
25. 20.85 B' F R' U R B' U' F R' F' U' D' F B D U' F2 D' L' F' B2 L' D' R2 D2 
26. 17.62 D2 B2 R2 B R' F' D R2 F L' B' U L' D2 B2 R U2 L B2 F D L D2 U L2


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## Logiqx (Mar 22, 2015)

Like you say.. nothing special after the cross and I got 17.61 but it's cool to get the skip (p = approx. 1/31704). My last cross skip was over a year ago and since then I've done about 10,000 timed CFOP solves.

Did you see Ross' scramble in the Roux group? Unbelievably easy... 11 moves to complete the cross + F2L, followed by an OLL skip and T-perm. I didn't time myself but it was a crazy untimed solve!


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## Logiqx (Mar 22, 2015)

MarcelP said:


> I just tied my Ao5 PB 16.37 what are the odds.. LOL



Good work... counting 14.


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## MarcelP (Mar 23, 2015)

Logiqx said:


> Good work... counting 14.



Yeah, I have one 14.xx on a very good day. So two 14's in one Ao5 is very nice  I doubt that will happen again some time soon.


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## sneaklyfox (Mar 24, 2015)

Reading about you guys getting some good times is kind of motivating. I haven't had much time to practice lately or be on the forums much but then I decided to pick up a cube just now and...



Spoiler



Very nice Ao12: 11.84, (11.73), 13.81, 12.28, (15.81), 12.39, 13.49, 12.86, 12.37, 12.30, 14.70, 11.81 = *12.79*
This is like 0.05 from my PB Ao12.


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## Cubeologist (Mar 24, 2015)

I had no idea that this thread was this amazing. It is very good motivation for me. You guys are awesome.


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## MarcelP (Mar 24, 2015)

sneaklyfox said:


> Reading about you guys getting some good times is kind of motivating. I haven't had much time to practice lately or be on the forums much but then I decided to pick up a cube just now and...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Very nice!! I am only 6 seconds away from your Ao12 PB .. LOL


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## Rocky0701 (Mar 24, 2015)

sneaklyfox said:


> Reading about you guys getting some good times is kind of motivating. I haven't had much time to practice lately or be on the forums much but then I decided to pick up a cube just now and...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Nice! I'm about two seconds off haha. Haven't improved much on 3x3 lately.



Cubeologist said:


> I had no idea that this thread was this amazing. It is very good motivation for me. You guys are awesome.


IKR, I love this thread.

Also, I have a comp this weekend wish me luck


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## MarcelP (Mar 25, 2015)

Rocky0701 said:


> Also, I have a comp this weekend wish me luck



Okay Quiton, how about a sub 15 average and sub 14 single this weekend for you?  Good luck!


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## Cubeologist (Mar 25, 2015)

Rocky0701 said:


> Also, I have a comp this weekend wish me luck



GOOD LUCK! I hope you beat all of your goals.


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## Rocky0701 (Mar 25, 2015)

MarcelP said:


> Okay Quiton, how about a sub 15 average and sub 14 single this weekend for you?  Good luck!


Haha, I wish. Thanks though 



Cubeologist said:


> GOOD LUCK! I hope you beat all of your goals.


Thanks man! I'll update you guys afterwards.


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## MarcelP (Mar 27, 2015)

Broke my Ao12 PB by 0.03 Good enough to update signature 



Spoiler



30. 19.00 L2 B2 R2 F2 D2 B L2 F L2 R2 U2 D' R D' B2 U' B R2 U' R B 
31. 17.32 L2 D' B2 R2 F B' L' R2 D' R2 D B2 D' B2 D L2 B2 D2 L 
32. 15.80 L' B2 F2 D' B2 D' B2 L2 R2 U R2 U F L2 B R' F2 L D' B' U2 
33. 24.53 U2 R' L' D' B2 U' R' U2 F B2 D2 R2 L' U2 F2 R B2 D2 R' 
34. 16.54 F U' L2 F2 R2 F2 U L2 D F2 L2 D' B' U F L2 D' L' B' R' B' 
35. 16.97 F2 B L2 B U' R D2 B' R L' U2 L2 F2 B2 L B2 D2 F 
36. 15.37 L2 F2 R2 D' B2 D' L2 D F2 U L2 F R' U R' D2 R F L' D2 L' 
37. 18.41 F2 U' F2 D B2 D U2 L2 D2 F2 L D2 F R U' L2 B2 R' D' U 
38. 17.94 L U B U' L2 B' R' U R U2 D L2 U' B2 U R2 B2 L2 
39. 20.23 R' D2 R2 F' L2 F' D2 B U2 F2 D2 L2 U' B' L' R B U' R D' 
40. 16.25 F B L' B' D2 F2 D R' L B2 R2 D F2 U2 R2 D' R2 U' B2 D' F' 
41. 19.83 F2 R2 D F2 D B2 F2 U2 B2 L2 B' L' B F' D' F2 L D' U R' 
42. 15.77 R2 B2 U' F2 R2 D' R2 B2 U2 B' D' L' B R' F L D U2



Nice if you think I had a high 20.XX ao50 yesterday..


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## Logiqx (Mar 27, 2015)

MarcelP said:


> Broke my Ao12 PB by 0.03 Good enough to update signature



Every little helps.... it's still a PB. 

I just knocked another 0.5s off my OH Ao12 (40.10s). The session was 42.96 (Ao50) but it was my first OH session in 5 days so a decent result overall.

I've not really done other cube sizes or 3x3 methods in the last few weeks and I'm about to get busy with windsurfing competitions, etc.

To avoid spreading myself too thinly, I'm going to limit myself to regular 3x3 and OH for Apr, May, Jun.


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## Logiqx (Mar 27, 2015)

Should you be interested here is my progression for OH Ao12. The x-axis is the total number of timed solves.

Do you fancy joining in the fun Marcel? If you're like me then the first 200 solves will be a massive improvement.


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## MarcelP (Mar 27, 2015)

Logiqx said:


> Should you be interested here is my progression for OH Ao12. The x-axis is the total number of timed solves.
> 
> Do you fancy joining in the fun Marcel? If you're like me then the first 200 solves will be a massive improvement.
> 
> View attachment 5023



I might just do that. I have not done OH since a competition in 2014


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## Logiqx (Mar 27, 2015)

MarcelP said:


> I might just do that. I have not done OH since a competition in 2014



If you want to learn any OH algs then Antoine Cantin is a good source:

https://sites.google.com/site/antoineccantin/oh

I originally used my two-handed algs for 2-look OLL but I subsequently switched to rRU alternatives.

It won't be long until you're bored of using A-Perm for 2-look PLL and feel the need to learn some PLLs. haha


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## Gordon (Mar 28, 2015)

Rocky0701 said:


> Nice! I'm about two seconds off haha. Haven't improved much on 3x3 lately.
> 
> IKR, I love this thread.
> 
> Also, I have a comp this weekend wish me luck



Good luck! 

I have also one. Today was 13x13. It rook me zwo hours and fortyfive minutes to solve this beast. It's really havy and big.
Tomorrow it will be 2x2 - 5x5. Let's see....


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## moralsh (Mar 28, 2015)

Next solve will be sub 150 minutes if you ever find the will to do time it again. Big cubes are a lot of fun, I've been practicing 7x and have almost halved my Times in less tan 2 weeks (21 to 12 minutes)

If love to have a 13x, but I can't justify to myself spending so much in a single cube... Yet


----------



## MarcelP (Mar 28, 2015)

Gordon said:


> Good luck!
> 
> I have also one. Today was 13x13. It rook me zwo hours and fortyfive minutes to solve this beast. It's really havy and big.
> Tomorrow it will be 2x2 - 5x5. Let's see....



Zwo.. LOL.. Still pretty fast! Good luck tomorrow.



moralsh said:


> If love to have a 13x, but I can't justify to myself spending so much in a single cube... Yet



You could start with the sweet deal on 11X11 http://speedcubeshop.com/clearance/yuxin-11x11x11


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## moralsh (Mar 28, 2015)

Don't. Tempt. me. [emoji13]


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## Rocky0701 (Mar 29, 2015)

Gordon said:


> Good luck!
> 
> I have also one. Today was 13x13. It rook me zwo hours and fortyfive minutes to solve this beast. It's really havy and big.
> Tomorrow it will be 2x2 - 5x5. Let's see....


Thanks! 2:45 actually seems really fast to me considering it's 860 pieces and takes forever to find each piece. Hopefully your wrists and fingers aren't too worn out. Good luck in your other events tomorrow!

Here are the results from my comp: http://cubecomps.com/live.php?cid=878&compid=77

I am pretty happy with all my times except for the second 3x3 round which just had a lot of mistakes. I met some pretty cool cubers, Kennen Lejeune got an 8.25 3x3 average and then 1.89 average for 2x2. Kevin Hays didn't break his WR unfortunately, but he still got a 1:55 something average on 6x6. I also met Chris Olson and he was very nice, and a lot of other people.


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## MarcelP (Mar 29, 2015)

Rocky0701 said:


> Here are the results from my comp: http://cubecomps.com/live.php?cid=878&compid=77



I would kill for these 3X3 times  GJ!


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## Gordon (Mar 29, 2015)

Rocky0701 said:


> I am pretty happy with all my times except for the second 3x3 round which just had a lot of mistakes.



You could have written this for me: http://m.cubecomps.com/competitions/803/competitors/57

What bothers me most is that my best 3x3 time is the one where the timer didnt stop on the first try. It would have been a single PB...


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## Rocky0701 (Mar 29, 2015)

MarcelP said:


> I would kill for these 3X3 times  GJ!


Thanks! Don't kill me though haha.



Gordon said:


> You could have written this for me: http://m.cubecomps.com/competitions/803/competitors/57
> 
> What bothers me most is that my best 3x3 time is the one where the timer didnt stop on the first try. It would have been a single PB...


Good job! Yeah DNFs are killers. Congrats on your 2x2 and 4x4 PBs. Also, you need to update your signature for 4x4 haha.


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## Gordon (Mar 29, 2015)

Well, my signature is probably quite old. I just can't see it on my mobile phone. I'll take a look when i start practicing again. 


With my 2x2 times I'm very happy. I didn't practise 2x2 since last september or so, so they are really unexpected. 4x4 is also very nice and 5x5 as usual. 


I think I'm just not used to cube that much anymore. Probably that's the cause of the 2nd round times. And probably the 13 x13...


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## MarcelP (Mar 31, 2015)

Gordon said:


> Well, my signature is probably quite old. I just can't see it on my mobile phone. I'll take a look when i start practicing again.
> 
> 
> With my 2x2 times I'm very happy. I didn't practise 2x2 since last september or so, so they are really unexpected. 4x4 is also very nice and 5x5 as usual.
> ...



Very nice 2X2 times! I am always too nervous to get decent 2X2 times on a competition. And the 3:18 on 5X5 is pretty sweet too  Your 4X4 times are roughly the same as mine


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## Gordon (Mar 31, 2015)

I did the 3:18 on my last comp. This time i had a 3:41 I think, which is also nice. It would be cool to have an average in 5x5 though...


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## MarcelP (Apr 6, 2015)

Ao100 PB by 0.02

Generated By csTimer on 2015-4-6
solves/total: 100/100

single
best: 14.64
worst: 24.21

mean of 3
current: 18.73 (σ = 0.16)
best: 16.59 (σ = 2.12)

avg of 5
current: 19.36 (σ = 0.93)
best: 17.63 (σ = 0.40)

avg of 12
current: 19.73 (σ = 1.15)
best: 18.44 (σ = 1.92)

avg of 50
current: 19.21 (σ = 1.55)
best: 18.98 (σ = 1.66)

avg of 100
current: 19.38 (σ = 1.71)
best: 19.38 (σ = 1.71)

Average: 19.38 (σ = 1.71)
Mean: 19.39

many sub 17's :

3. 15.62 R B2 F R B' L' D' F L' U D R B' R D' U2 R' U R' L' D2 L' U L' D2 
24. 15.54 D U' B L' D2 U F' R D R2 L F L' D' B2 R2 B' L R U F B' D' R2 B2 
28. 16.58 L D L D2 B2 U2 R' L U L2 F D F L2 R2 F' R F2 U' F2 B2 L' R B D' 
34. 16.96 L' F' D U2 L' D' F L F2 L' U' R2 L2 D U L2 F' R' D' U' L2 D' U2 L U2 
41. 15.73 B2 U2 D B' L2 F' R2 U D2 L' F R L2 B' U' L U2 L' D2 U2 F2 U F D' F' 
48. 14.64 R' L2 B2 U D2 F2 R2 L D' B' R D2 B' L' D' R' D U2 B R2 B U2 R2 D F2 
52. 16.25 U' R2 D L B2 U2 B D2 F2 B' R' U2 F' U2 F R B U2 D F' U B U B2 R' 
53. 16.24 R F2 R2 D' L D' F' L2 F' D' R2 B F' R D2 F' B2 L2 R' D R F D R2 F 
60. 15.12 R' F' R2 B' D R' D' L2 U2 F R' L' F R U2 F' B' R F L F B2 D' B' D' 
69. 15.86 U' F R' B2 F2 D2 R L F L2 D2 U' B U2 R' F R' B2 U2 L2 F' D2 F B R2 
71. 16.87 U2 F B2 L' F2 B2 L R2 U D2 F2 L R' U2 R' L2 B L2 R2 B2 R D' U F2 L 
76. 16.50 B' D F2 R' D2 F2 D2 L F L2 B' L2 D L' R' B' R' L U D' F2 L D U R 
83. 16.81 F2 L' F2 L2 B R' F' L B U R2 F2 B' U L2 D' R U2 D2 R' U2 B' D R' D 
90. 15.94 L2 U D F' L' U' R2 B D2 F L2 D' U F' U' R2 B2 F L' F2 L F2 D2 U R2


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## mark49152 (Apr 6, 2015)

Nice one Marcel. Good to see you continuing to improve


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## Rocky0701 (Apr 6, 2015)

Awesome Marcel!


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## MarcelP (Apr 7, 2015)

mark49152 said:


> Nice one Marcel. Good to see you continuing to improve



Hey Mark, long time no see. How is your cubing these days? My times are improving a bit even though I am not practicing every day. I do most of my cubing only in weekends now.



Rocky0701 said:


> Awesome Marcel!



Thanks


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## DeeDubb (Apr 7, 2015)

All done with Roux Marcel? Maybe I'll have to switch to CFOP then!

lol, I did a quick CFOP Ao12 for fun:

28.89, 23.31, 29.61, 23.29, 26.64, 28.51, 25.06, 29.34, 29.94, 27.76, 23.90, 26.26

current avg12: *26.93* (σ = 2.27)


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## mark49152 (Apr 7, 2015)

MarcelP said:


> Hey Mark, long time no see. How is your cubing these days?


I haven't been cubing much recently - too busy with work and family. I've got slower, low 20s, but speed comes back quite quickly. When I do get a little time, I try to drill algs so I don't forget them!


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## MarcelP (Apr 7, 2015)

DeeDubb said:


> All done with Roux Marcel? Maybe I'll have to switch to CFOP then!
> 
> lol, I did a quick CFOP Ao12 for fun:
> 
> ...



That is not to bad  I have not given up on Roux. In fact, this weekend I did some target practice. First block only. I think I did 25 or so.. But no matter how much I practice that.. I could never do a first block as fast as a cross  I did pure Roux for a few months and the results where very disappointing so I decided to take a break. I saw your times are becomming pretty awesom. In the 15 seconds range.. Nice..



mark49152 said:


> I haven't been cubing much recently - too busy with work and family. I've got slower, low 20s, but speed comes back quite quickly. When I do get a little time, I try to drill algs so I don't forget them!



Ok, time to get back then.. I want to see more updates (of improvements preferably  ) in this thread.


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## Logiqx (Apr 7, 2015)

mark49152 said:


> I haven't been cubing much recently - too busy with work and family. I've got slower, low 20s, but speed comes back quite quickly. When I do get a little time, I try to drill algs so I don't forget them!



Good to see you back Mark.

I've not cubed much in the past week or two... big winds meant I was able to get out on the water for 6 days out of 7. 

Something good to report is that I found a little bit of motivation and learnt 7 additional OLLs recently... completing the line cases. I haven't bothered learning any OLLs in the past 6-9 months so I surprised myself when I decided to re-start! I just have the W and awkward shapes left but I won't bother learning them until my new ones have bedded into my solves. I've also changed the way I finger-trick a couple of other OLLs so they need a bit more practice.

I've also been changing the way I build the cross and trying to incorporate a few new tricks into my F2L. I think I'll benefit in the near future but in the short term it's a little more to think about during my solves. Some of these changes were prompted by OH solving but others also benefit my 2H solves.


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## mark49152 (Apr 7, 2015)

Logiqx said:


> Something good to report is that I found a little bit of motivation and learnt 7 additional OLLs recently... completing the line cases. I haven't bothered learning any OLLs in the past 6-9 months so I surprised myself when I decided to re-start! I just have the W and awkward shapes left but I won't bother learning them until my new ones have bedded into my solves.


For what it's worth, I found the W algs very easy to learn and finger. I use R U R' U R U' R' U' R' F R F' and R U R' F' R U R' U' R' F R U' R' F R F'. The latter is just Jb perm with a different ending.

The awkwards are a different story. I recently finished learning all the OLL algs and can execute them all fine. My problem is matching algs to cases and getting the correct AUF. For most cases I am just about there now, but for awkwards I seem to have a kind of mental block and am often doing the wrong alg, or the right alg from the wrong angle. In timed solves I often find myself reverting to 2-look on an awkward case!


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## PJKCuber (Apr 7, 2015)

How long did it take you to learn 3BLD Marcel?


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## MarcelP (Apr 7, 2015)

PJKCuber said:


> How long did it take you to learn 3BLD Marcel?



One video and one evening sighted solves.. After that I knew how to proceed. But in fact I have had only two successes in my life in BLD. So I would not take me as a reference  Btw, I hate 3BLD.. LOL


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## Rocky0701 (Apr 7, 2015)

It took me about a week of a lot of sighted solves before I got my first success.


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## mark49152 (Apr 7, 2015)

Rocky0701 said:


> It took me about a week of a lot of sighted solves before I got my first success.


Same here. Once I could solve sighted, I would write down the letter sequence then solve out of sight under the table while reading the letters, to save having to memorize. I found it a lot easier to divide and conquer the challenge!


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## Logiqx (Apr 8, 2015)

mark49152 said:


> For what it's worth, I found the W algs very easy to learn and finger. I use R U R' U R U' R' U' R' F R F' and R U R' F' R U R' U' R' F R U' R' F R F'. The latter is just Jb perm with a different ending.
> 
> The awkwards are a different story. I recently finished learning all the OLL algs and can execute them all fine. My problem is matching algs to cases and getting the correct AUF. For most cases I am just about there now, but for awkwards I seem to have a kind of mental block and am often doing the wrong alg, or the right alg from the wrong angle. In timed solves I often find myself reverting to 2-look on an awkward case!



Thanks. I decided to learn the remaining 6 cases today.

For 29 + 30, I opted for (r U2 R' U' R U' r') (R' U2 R U R' U R) and (r' U2 R U R' U r) (R U2 R' U' R U' R'). They are similar to the "Chameleon" (R U2’ R’ U’ R U’ R2 U2’ R U R’ U R) and "Mickey" (r' U2 R U R' U r2 U2 R' U' R U' r') that I use for OH. I use the same corner recognition for all of these cases so 29 + 30 are practically free... both in terms of recognition and execution.

I'll only know how quickly I can differentiate the awkward cases (headlights and chameleon) when they start to come up in real solves. It took me quite a while to stop mixing up the L cases but I'm hoping to do better with the awkward cases.


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## MarcelP (Apr 11, 2015)

Finally single PB (after more than a year)

Sixth solve of the day..

6. *10.87 * D2 R2 F B2 R2 L2 U2 F' B2 R' L2 D2 R' U' F' U R2 U R2 B L R2 U L2 D2

L U' L' U' y U2 R U2 R' U' R //XX-CROSS (11)
U' L U L' U2 L U' L' // 3RD (19)
U' y L' U L U y' R U' R' //2FL (29)
U L F' L' U' L U F U' L' // OLL (37)
U U x' R' D R' U2 R D' R' U2 R2 // pll (49)

4,50 tps

Cube: Moyu HuaLong... the best freaking cube there is and ever will be..


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## mark49152 (Apr 11, 2015)

Go go sub-10!


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## MarcelP (Apr 11, 2015)

mark49152 said:


> Go go sub-10!



LOL.. Still averaging at the 20 secs mark though..


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## MarcelP (Apr 11, 2015)

number 16 was not too shabby eighter.

16. 13.51 F2 U D R2 F D' U' F B2 L' D B R2 U2 F' L F' D' F2 L D2 F L2 U D


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## mark49152 (Apr 11, 2015)

MarcelP said:


> LOL.. Still averaging at the 20 secs mark though..


What do you think you need to do to get faster? I have been studying my splits again, and am pretty convinced I'm reaching the natural limit of my ability. Maybe I can achieve 18 sec, but I can't see how I can get faster than that.


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## MarcelP (Apr 11, 2015)

mark49152 said:


> What do you think you need to do to get faster? I have been studying my splits again, and am pretty convinced I'm reaching the natural limit of my ability. Maybe I can achieve 18 sec, but I can't see how I can get faster than that.



I think I would be able to average 15 secs one day.. I think for me is LL the bottle neck (english word?).. Most of my F2L are 11 - 14 secs.. And then still I manage to f..-up the solve finishing 23 secs.. Every 12 solves I have one or two of these.. And on competition mostly 5 of these.. LOL I think my cross could be better too.. F2L lookahead is pretty good and probably my best feature.


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## MarcelP (Apr 11, 2015)

Yeah.. my first sub 19 Ao100..

I lost my cool after solve 80.. I was doing mid 18 in average at that point.. 


Spoiler



Generated By csTimer on 2015-4-11
solves/total: 101/101

single
best: 10.87
worst: 25.81

mean of 3
current: 17.84 (σ = 1.67)
best: 15.83 (σ = 2.23)

avg of 5
current: 18.63 (σ = 0.90)
best: 17.05 (σ = 0.97)

avg of 12
current: 19.49 (σ = 1.36)
best: 17.99 (σ = 2.12)

avg of 50
current: 19.10 (σ = 1.54)
best: 18.64 (σ = 1.68)

avg of 100
current: 18.99 (σ = 1.60)
best: 18.99 (σ = 1.61)

Average: 18.97 (σ = 1.55)
Mean: 18.94

Time List:
1. 16.97 U R' L F' B2 U2 L' D B L' F' B' L' F B2 U F2 R U F R2 U' D2 B2 D2 
2. 20.60 B2 R U' B2 L R2 D L' U2 R2 F2 U' B' D L R D' U F2 D' F' U D' L R2 
3. 20.22 F2 R' U2 B2 U R' U2 F L' B2 U2 R' L D' F' D2 U L2 R' B' D L2 D' L2 U' 
4. 20.20 B D' F' R D2 B' L U2 B R D L' F' D' F' D' L2 B2 U L2 R2 D' B' D' R2 
5. 17.97 L2 R' F R' F D' R' L B' U R2 L D U' R' U' F' L2 D' R L' D B F U 
*6. 10.87 D2 R2 F B2 R2 L2 U2 F' B2 R' L2 D2 R' U' F' U R2 U R2 B L R2 U L2 D2 *
7. 20.98 R2 U' D L' R' B' U2 B2 L D2 B L' F D' R2 F' B' D' L' F2 R2 U2 F2 B U' 
8. 18.01 B F U' L2 R B D2 U R' F' B D B' D R2 D' R2 L2 F2 D2 R F B' U' L2 
9. 18.46 D' L2 F U F L' B R2 L D2 L' R U' L F2 L' F2 D' B R2 F2 D L' U' F 
10. 17.80 F L2 F2 U2 F' R2 L2 U2 D' B2 R2 F D2 F B R F' B' U R L' B' F' D2 R 
11. 18.89 U2 D B U' B2 R' D2 U2 L U2 D2 F R2 L U2 F' U2 F' U F2 B' R2 L B L 
12. 18.74 L' B' R2 U D B' L U' D2 F L' B' U2 D2 L D2 L2 U' B' R2 F2 L R D2 R 
13. 22.19 F D2 B2 L D2 L' R2 F L U2 B2 R2 F' U' B' U' D B' L' B2 U F' R2 F' L2 
14. 17.17 B' L F2 B2 R' D2 L2 R2 D2 R2 F' D2 L' U L2 F' B R2 B' D' B2 U2 D2 B F' 
15. 20.29 F' U2 B' D2 B L2 F' L' F B L' U2 L2 U2 L2 U' L F2 D' U2 B F R' D2 L' 
*16. 13.51 F2 U D R2 F D' U' F B2 L' D B R2 U2 F' L F' D' F2 L D2 F L2 U D *
17. 16.04 D L F' B D' L B D B D2 F' R' B U2 L2 U B' F L2 F D' L2 U2 D L2 
18. 17.96 F' B2 U' F' B' U' F R U D' R' B2 D' L U F2 R2 U D' L D L' F' D R 
19. 20.33 L2 U2 L B2 L' U' F R' B' D F2 B' U' B2 F2 U F' R2 L B2 D U F' R' L' 
20. 20.80 D L F2 U B2 L D R' F2 D U' L2 D' F R' F2 L2 R2 B R2 F2 B2 D U2 F 
21. 16.18 B L2 U' B2 F2 D' L2 D R F2 U D2 F2 B2 L2 D2 R2 F B L R2 F' L U D 
22. 17.83 L2 B L2 F2 D2 L D' B' L2 U B2 D B' R2 D' B' F U2 R D R B' R D2 B 
23. 17.12 F2 D2 B' R' B2 R U R' U R2 L U F' R F' B' R L F2 R2 F2 R B D F' 
24. 16.34 R' D' L' U D' R U2 B' F D F2 L' D R2 U2 D2 F' D B U B' L' B F2 R' 
25. 22.19 F' D L2 U L' U B U B U2 B' R L F R F2 U2 R' L2 D2 F L' D2 B D2 
26. 18.58 F' R F R B' R2 L' D' R' D B2 R' F' B L' U2 B' D R U R2 F2 D2 R' D 
27. 21.43 L B2 L' R2 U R' F' R F L' F B' U2 L' U R2 F2 B L' R B' F' U' B' U 
28. 19.03 U2 L2 U D L' U' R' U D' R' L D2 R' D R' D2 L2 B' L2 D2 B' D B U L 
29. 20.47 U' B2 U B R L2 U' F' D B' F' R2 U2 R L' F R' L' F2 R' F U2 B' R' B 
30. 19.88 R' D R' B2 U D' L' B' D2 B' L2 R U' B2 L' B2 F2 R F' B2 U' R2 D' R2 F2 
*31. 14.97 L' U2 L' B' R' U F R L F2 U' R2 L2 D F U2 D' R2 L D2 U L D2 U' L2 *
32. 19.80 L D2 R L2 D2 F' B2 L' B2 D B2 F D' F2 B2 U2 B2 F D U' B2 D' B U' R 
33. 18.88 R' L B' U' L U B L2 F U R2 B F' U' D L B' D' L B2 D2 F2 L U' R' 
34. 16.74 U L B' D' R' B' U2 F L' F U' D F' R2 U R2 U L2 F' R B D L' D2 U2 
35. 20.21 B' L' D' B2 L' R U2 L' R U B2 R' D F2 L' D2 L' U2 L2 R2 D' U2 B2 D R' 
36. 19.33 F' D R' D' B D F D' R F' L' F2 L F R' U' L2 B' U B L' B2 D2 U B 
37. 23.90 D' B D2 R2 D' F U R B U' D F2 B2 L' D' B' D U' R D' L2 B L' B' D' 
38. 15.86 L2 F2 B' D' B2 U' F L2 F' L' B2 R U2 F2 L U2 L2 F' L' F2 L2 R2 F L' D2 
39. 19.10 R2 B' U F2 B' D' U2 F2 D2 L U D2 R' B L U2 F2 L2 B U' R2 D2 F B2 R2 
40. 21.62 F L' R' D' U2 R2 L U B D R2 L D2 B D R B L' R' U2 F2 U2 F' B' U2 
41. 17.33 L2 U2 D' L R2 U L F2 L' B' D B2 D2 F2 D2 U' F' L2 U B' U' F' L2 D' R 
42. 18.81 U' R' L D2 L' B F' U F' U' F' B2 R' B U2 L2 F' B L' F L' R D' F' L2 
43. 18.15 U R2 L' F2 U' R' F' R' D' U' R U2 D F2 L D2 L' F' R' F R L U' L' B2 
44. 18.64 D L D U' F' L R D2 U2 L2 R D2 U2 R' U' R2 D2 B L' D B' U' D' L' B' 
45. 20.28 B' R' D' U L F R' D L R U' B2 U2 B' F L2 R' F2 R2 F' R' B D B2 R 
46. 17.57 B2 R U2 D' L2 U2 F2 L' U' R2 B' L2 B' U' B D B F L' R2 B2 F U' F' L2 
47. 25.81 L R2 B2 D2 R2 D2 R2 B U B2 F2 D U' R2 D F L' B F' R' B' D B F' U2 
48. 18.39 B' L2 D F U F D' F L' U D2 R' B' R B U' F B2 L2 D2 U2 L2 D2 F R' 
49. 20.01 F2 R' D2 B L2 U D2 F L2 R2 U L' R2 D R2 D U2 L D' R2 L' D F2 R' L2 
50. 17.94 U D F2 D F2 B' R U' B' U L' R' D L F2 D R' B2 F L D R2 F L' R2 
51. 18.51 D R2 D2 B' L2 U F2 R U2 D' F2 B2 L R' B R L2 F R2 F2 L F U' F' B2 
52. 21.38 D2 R U' F' B' U' L F L' R' F2 L' U' L D R2 L U' L2 D U' R2 L' D' R 
53. 16.11 B2 L F U B D' U2 L U' F' U B2 D2 L' R2 B L' U' B2 F' R' F2 D B L' 
*54. 13.30 F D' F U F' L B D' L' R' F' U' B U2 D2 R2 D' B' D F R2 U2 R F' L' *
55. 19.91 L2 R2 U2 D2 F2 R2 D' R B U' F L2 B U2 B2 U' B' F2 U R2 U2 R2 D' U2 F' 
56. 19.14 B2 L D' F' R2 F2 L2 B2 D L D' R2 B' U2 F' U' D2 R' L' F2 L2 R F' L' R' 
57. 15.93 B L F R U2 F U2 B' F2 U' B2 F' U' B' R2 L2 D L' U2 B' R L2 B2 F2 L2 
58. 18.28 L2 B' R' F U2 L B' L' B' L' U2 F U R' F2 B' U' B' F' L' D' L R2 U F2 
59. 19.70 U' R2 B2 F' R2 D' R' F' B' U2 D' B' L2 D B' U2 F' R' L' B2 L2 R' F2 B' U 
60. 21.69 L2 D L' B2 R F2 U' D' B D L' R' D2 B' R B2 F2 U2 R2 D' B R2 L F' D2 
61. 16.30 D L' B R L2 B U D2 L F' R' U D' B D2 L2 U' B' L' F U2 R2 U L' F2 
62. 18.99 F' B2 U F2 D2 U F L2 R U' L' D' L' D' U' L R2 U2 B F2 R2 F D2 F2 B2 
63. 19.51 L' U' R' U' D2 R D' F L U B D U F' R' B' R D' U' L2 R' D' B' D' B' 
64. 17.37 B R2 D F R' U L2 D L R B2 R2 U' L' U L' D2 L B F L D2 U' B2 R 
65. 16.57 D' B' D2 L' U D2 L2 R B D F R2 U' B' R F' D' L' B2 R2 L' B2 R' U D2 
66. 20.07 B' U2 R' U2 L U' B2 U' D2 F2 R B F D2 B2 R2 U2 B' L U' R' U' B' R2 F' 
67. 19.21 U B2 L' F2 D B F' L2 F U2 R' D' R D2 F' D L2 B F' U B L2 U' B2 U 
68. 21.05 R' B' U' F' D2 B' D' R2 D2 F U' L2 U' D' B' R2 D F' U2 F2 B2 D' B' R' U2 
69. 19.29 F' L' U2 B' U' R2 D' U B R' F L U2 D2 L2 R F2 D2 R' D' U' F' L U F' 
70. 17.51 D' R U2 L' B U F L2 F B D' B' F2 D L' D2 F R L' F U' F' D F2 L' 
71. 16.88 U' D2 L2 B D2 B2 U F B' R2 B2 F R' U R L' D B2 U2 F' L F B D' U 
72. 17.26 B U' F U' B2 L2 U' B' D U L' U D L' U' F2 U2 F L' D2 F R U L F2 
73. 19.72 D' L B' D U' R' U' D2 R' L2 F2 U' D F U R2 U' R F2 U' D' B' U' F D 
74. 19.56 F2 B D' B F R2 U R' B2 U' L' R2 U' R2 U L' U F2 R F L' D2 F L F' 
75. 19.92 R2 D' B U' B' U2 F2 B' U2 L' F U' R' D U B2 R2 F2 L D R2 F2 B U2 R2 
76. 16.59 U2 L' B2 F' L D U R D2 U2 L D U' F R D B2 D2 B2 U2 L2 D2 B2 U' D2 
77. 16.99 F' L' D2 R2 B' R U F2 U' B' D' L2 D2 F D' F2 U' R F2 D F U R' U2 D2 
78. 20.56 D2 U B2 F2 D B R2 D2 L U' B U2 R' D L2 B2 L U D F' U2 L' F' L' B2 
79. 20.17 D' R' L' B2 U L2 F2 L' R' U' F L' R' B R' L2 U2 R' U D L' D' L' D B 
80. 19.16 B L' R F2 R2 F2 D F D2 F U2 D2 F2 B D' B D2 L2 D R' B L2 R F' B 
81. 19.99 U' R' L F' B2 L2 F2 L2 B' F D2 F' R U' L F R F' R2 U2 F B U2 D R2 
82. 20.07 B' F R' U R2 D' F2 U' D2 B2 L2 B R' L' D' F' D R2 F B D2 B L D F' 
83. 19.50 D' R2 B' R B2 D B2 F2 U D R F' L' F D' B D2 L U F U' B' D' L B 
84. 23.16 R' B2 L' D' B2 D2 R2 B2 L F2 B R' L2 D' F L' R2 B' D' B' D2 B D B' D' 
85. 18.56 B D' R2 L B2 D' F D2 B2 D F' R2 F2 B L U D2 F2 R B' U F2 D' B U 
86. 16.89 L R D' L2 R' D' R L2 D2 L' B2 R' L2 U B R2 U R2 B L' F R' F U2 F2 
87. 22.32 F2 R' F' U2 D F' B2 R F' L D2 B2 D L' F' L2 R U2 D F' B2 D' U2 F2 D 
88. 21.57 F2 R' F B D L R2 F' B U R2 B D R' F2 R' D R F2 B D' B' U L' B2 
89. 20.09 F B2 D L B L U2 R D2 L2 B D U B2 D U2 B' R' D2 F2 B2 L' D U2 F2 
90. 20.42 F2 B' R U' L' U2 B2 L2 U L U' B2 D U' R' B R2 L2 B L' D' B' D R D 
91. 17.53 L D' F' L2 B D L2 R2 B R2 F B D' L' F2 D F' D L' F' R B' R B' D' 
92. 22.59 L2 R D U L B R' D L F2 U F' B' L' U' R' B' L2 D' U2 B L2 R D F' 
93. 18.74 R' L2 F2 L2 R U R' L' D F2 B' U' R2 U D2 F2 D2 F U' B' U' L R' F2 D' 
94. 19.74 U L2 U2 F R' B R D2 U2 L2 D2 U F2 D' R B F2 L' D2 R' U' R2 U F2 U' 
95. 21.76 B2 U2 D R F2 B D' R2 B' R L2 U' D2 R2 D' R' D' F R D' L U B D' L' 
96. 19.88 D B' D2 U' L B2 D2 F' B' U D' L U' D2 B2 D2 L R' U F2 B U L R' B 
97. 20.94 F L B' F D' U2 F2 U2 B2 F R' U2 D R L' B2 R2 U' B D2 B2 R U' R2 U2 
98. 18.58 R2 U2 R L B F' R2 F2 L' R2 U' F2 L2 U2 B' D2 U2 F R L U' R' L' F2 B 
99. 19.55 B' F L2 F L2 R2 F R D' U2 L' D F2 B2 U' D2 B' R' L' D2 B' U2 B L' U2 
100. 16.21 L F2 B' D2 F U' R2 B R' D R2 U2 F2 D U L' D2 F' U2 R D' B U' F2 B 
101. 17.75 B' D F2 D R U2 D2 L D' L2 R2 B2 F D2 L B D2 U' F U' B2 F2 D' U' F'


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## Rocky0701 (Apr 11, 2015)

MarcelP said:


> Finally single PB (after more than a year)
> 
> Sixth solve of the day..
> 
> ...


Dang! Fullstep too 



MarcelP said:


> Yeah.. my first sub 19 Ao100..
> 
> I lost my cool after solve 80.. I was doing mid 18 in average at that point..
> 
> ...


Congrats man! I can't wait to try the HuaLong.


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## MarcelP (Apr 11, 2015)

Rocky0701 said:


> Congrats man! I can't wait to try the HuaLong.



I never have been more excited about a cube as this one. It is amazing.. No lock ups, fast, controllable and very very forgiving. I have it on factory tentions and no lube. I did probably 300 solves with it in the last two days.. and yeah.. main cube for sure. (PB's are usually a good sign about a cube  )


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## mark49152 (Apr 11, 2015)

MarcelP said:


> I think I would be able to average 15 secs one day.. I think for me is LL the bottle neck (english word?).. Most of my F2L are 11 - 14 secs.. And then still I manage to f..-up the solve finishing 23 secs.. Every 12 solves I have one or two of these.. And on competition mostly 5 of these.. LOL I think my cross could be better too.. F2L lookahead is pretty good and probably my best feature.


If I add up my PBs from individual steps it comes to 17.3 so I'm about 10% less efficient in a full solve, which I hope I can improve by practising full solves more. Say 0.5 sec potentially saved. Cross+1 is still my weakest step and I think I could shave maybe 0.5 sec off that, and maybe another 0.5 off F2L. My PLL recognition could be a bit better too. That would bring me to 18 sec average. Beyond that, it's just tps, and I'm not optimistic that I can improve that by much. I drill algs every day, but gains in tps come very, very slow.


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## Rocky0701 (Apr 11, 2015)

MarcelP said:


> I never have been more excited about a cube as this one. It is amazing.. No lock ups, fast, controllable and very very forgiving. I have it on factory tentions and no lube. I did probably 300 solves with it in the last two days.. and yeah.. main cube for sure. (PB's are usually a good sign about a cube  )


Awesome! Yeah, it's about time I have a new main, I've been using a WeiLong V1 for over a year haha. Are you going to get the Gans 356 as well?


----------



## MarcelP (Apr 11, 2015)

Rocky0701 said:


> Awesome! Yeah, it's about time I have a new main, I've been using a WeiLong V1 for over a year haha. Are you going to get the Gans 356 as well?



Not yet. This HuaLong is pretty much perfect.. When I get bored with it then I might


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## Logiqx (Apr 14, 2015)

MarcelP said:


> LOL.. Still averaging at the 20 secs mark though..



I think I've got my average back to about 21s now. My new OLLs are starting to bed in and some of them end up as sub-20 solves.

My single times are also coming back and I had a couple of 14's today along with a 15 and a couple of 16's at lunch time.

I think I missed out on a big single PB during that session... 2 move cross, 7 move pair, 3 x 3 move pairs (all fast turning without pauses) but I accidentally twisted a corner on the last pair. The F2L felt several seconds faster than my 14s solves but the twisted corner took a while to sort out... I couldn't decide if it was an L or awkward case with a twisted corner. Doh!

General feeling... I think I'm progressing again.


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## Logiqx (Apr 14, 2015)

MarcelP said:


> 6. *10.87 * D2 R2 F B2 R2 L2 U2 F' B2 R' L2 D2 R' U' F' U R2 U R2 B L R2 U L2 D2
> 
> Cube: Moyu HuaLong... the best freaking cube there is and ever will be..



Great single. Sub-10 soon!


----------



## Rocky0701 (Apr 14, 2015)

MarcelP said:


> Not yet. This HuaLong is pretty much perfect.. When I get bored with it then I might


I just tried two HuaLongs at a meetup a couple days ago, they were both amazing. There's one on the way for me. I read some reviews of the gans on thecubicle.us and some people thought it was better than the HuaLong, my issye with it though is I have huge hands so a 56 MM cube would be too small for me.


----------



## Cubeologist (Apr 14, 2015)

PB! I can see myself improving

avg of 5: 15.23

Time List:
1. 15.37 R2 U B2 R2 F2 D2 R2 F2 D U2 B' R F2 U' B2 F D F' L' U' 
2. (18.20) D2 B2 F2 R2 U F2 D2 B2 D' R B D' B2 L U B2 F U' R2 
3. 15.38 D' L2 F2 R' F2 R' B2 L B2 D2 R F' R F R D F R2 
4. 14.94 F2 U R2 B2 U2 F2 U' B2 D' B2 R2 L' B' U F2 L' U F2 U' B2 F' 
5. (14.70) B L' F B U2 L B2 U' L R2 F2 U R2 D' R2 F2 U2 B2 R2 D2 F'


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## MarcelP (Apr 17, 2015)

Rocky0701 said:


> I just tried two HuaLongs at a meetup a couple days ago, they were both amazing. There's one on the way for me. I read some reviews of the gans on thecubicle.us and some people thought it was better than the HuaLong, my issye with it though is I have huge hands so a 56 MM cube would be too small for me.



Okay, I caved in. You convinsed me to order one  Although I think the HuaLong is pretty much perfect.. I think I need the Gan356 too LOL..


Cubeologist said:


> PB! I can see myself improving
> 
> avg of 5: 15.23



Nice!! What cube?


So I have not been practicing a lot lately. I have looked into organising a competition a bit but it seems more work than I can handle probably.. I just did an Ao50 on red cross only.. I got a 20.25.. That was fun


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## Rocky0701 (Apr 17, 2015)

MarcelP said:


> Okay, I caved in. You convinsed me to order one  Although I think the HuaLong is pretty much perfect.. I think I need the Gan356 too LOL..
> 
> 
> Nice!! What cube?
> ...


Just got my HuaLong yesterday and man I love this cube! Instant new main, I love the speed. I also tried my friend's new Gans yesterday pretty much right out of the box, it and the HuaLong are going to be pretty darn even as people's mains. IMO, it wasn't as ridiculously fast as the HuaLong, but it has better overall performance like less lockups and stuff. You'll be glad that I convinced you


----------



## MarcelP (Apr 17, 2015)

Rocky0701 said:


> Just got my HuaLong yesterday and man I love this cube! Instant new main, I love the speed.



My first solves of the day with the HuaLong without warm up 

[video]https://youtu.be/YHxkoboxNm8[/video]


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## Rocky0701 (Apr 17, 2015)

MarcelP said:


> My first solves of the day with the HuaLong without warm up
> 
> https://youtu.be/YHxkoboxNm8


Sweet solves! This cube is amazing. I am in the middle of an ao100 with the Hualong at the moment. I'm at the 50 solve mark and the average is 15.62 so if I can keep this rolling it could be a new PB ao100  Haven't even lubed or tensioned yet.


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## MarcelP (Apr 24, 2015)

Nicest one of this month 



Spoiler



*12.96* F R2 F' L2 U2 B D2 B' L2 F2 U2 D' L' U B2 F2 L U' F' U2 F'

z' // inspection Orange on bottom, green on F
U R2 // CROSS (2/60)
U2 R U' R' U R' U2 R U2 R' U R // 1ST F2L (12/60)
U' R U' R' U2 y' R U R' //2ND (9/60)
U2 y' R U2 R' U' y R' U' R //3RD (9/60)
U L' U2 L U' L' U L //4TH (8/60)
U R U R' U R U2 R' //OLL (7/60)
U2 R' U' R y R2 u R' U R U' R u' R2 //PLL (13/60)

*4.6* TPS 
Cube: Cyclone Boys





Spoiler: Video










Edit: oh and.. Orange is my worst cross color


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## Rocky0701 (Apr 24, 2015)

Nice solve! I've tried CN before, it's pretty hard. Good job sticking with it! What do you average CN now?


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## MarcelP (Apr 24, 2015)

Rocky0701 said:


> Nice solve! I've tried CN before, it's pretty hard. Good job sticking with it! What do you average CN now?



I solve CN only. So my global average is my CN average. I have this strategy, when doing untimed solves I do no white/black and no yellow, but only green/blue/red or orange. When I do timed solves I look for the easiest cross in the following order, white, yellow, and then whatever hits my eye. This results in many yellow/white solves in timed solves. However, when there is a very nice blue/red/orange or green cross I will not hesitate. This strategy takes care of being too hesitative about what cross color to choose. Every solve I have a plan of attack and it works great.


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## Logiqx (Apr 27, 2015)

MarcelP said:


> Nicest one of this month
> 
> 12.96 full step...
> 
> Edit: oh and.. Orange is my worst cross color



I've just got back from a few days away and find these videos screaming to be watched:

- WR... Antoine's OH average
- WR... Colin's WR single
- Sub-13... Marcel's full step single

Cool solve Marcel, especially since it is a fairly typical move count.

I haven't got a lot of news but after a small hiatus in practice, I got my first OH sub-40 Ao12 last week - 38.82.

I will collect my new HuaLong's from the mail depot today (one black + one white). I'm really looking forward to trying them out and seeing how I get on with a black cube!


----------



## Logiqx (Apr 27, 2015)

Just picked up my HuaLongs... two things I notice immediately.

1) They are really nice cubes
2) I have no issues with recognition on black cubes after using white cubes for most of my cubing life

Black cube: No lubrication, no break-in, no warm up...



PB Ao12 of 18.86... first one since Nov 2014.

*Edit:*
I've also tried it for OH... Ao50 = 41.32. It feels nice and stable but perhaps a little stiff out the box.

I'm yet to tension it but I'm really liking the HuaLong. I might switch to black for my main.


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## MarcelP (Apr 27, 2015)

Logiqx said:


> PB Ao12 of 18.86... first one since Nov 2014.



Awesome! I think you mean HuaLongs? They are great cubes indeed. My current main. I have a Gan 356 comming though.  Nice to see you can solve black without any problems. Are you color neutral?


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## Logiqx (Apr 27, 2015)

MarcelP said:


> Awesome! I think you mean HuaLongs? They are great cubes indeed. My current main. I have a Gan 356 comming though.  Nice to see you can solve black without any problems. Are you color neutral?



Yup... HuaLong.

I switched to CN when I was averaging a little under 40 seconds. I spend 1-2 seconds scanning the cube looking for [potentially] easy crosses (typically edges connected to their centre) then I start planning crosses in the order which I think they are likely to be easiest. If a cross feels a bit nasty during planning, I move to another colour and if no colours look easy during the initial scanning, I just default to white / yellow.

I think I'm finally back on par with my times late in 2014 but I feel like I have the potential to go faster now. Once I stop making silly mistakes, I'm hoping my times will start to improve.

Just now...

14+: 1
16+: 9
18+: 37
20+: 30
22+: 9
24+: *11*
26+: 2
28+: 1

The 24's solves tend to be when I do >4 F2L slots, multiple OLL's or PLL's.


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## mark49152 (Apr 27, 2015)

Hello folks, I'm still here. Nice to see the regular progress on this thread!

I haven't cubed much recently, and when I have, it's been drilling algs or doing blind cross practice. I haven't had much time to cube in daylight hours so have been doing the kind of practice that still works in low light or can be done idly while on the phone concentrating on very important and interesting meetings 

Anyway... Inspired by Collin's WR, I picked up an AoLong today and did a few full solves in daylight. My first timed session of full solves for six weeks, and I wiped half a second off all PBs except single! 18.88 ao100, 18.42 ao50, 17.27 ao12, 16.19 ao5.

Cross practice rocks


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## MarcelP (Apr 28, 2015)

Logiqx said:


> Yup... HuaLong.
> 
> I think I'm finally back on par with my times late in 2014 but I feel like I have the potential to go faster now. Once I stop making silly mistakes, I'm hoping my times will start to improve.
> 
> The 24's solves tend to be when I do >4 F2L slots, multiple OLL's or PLL's.



Yeah, same here. Doing 3 OLL's is nothing weird for me.. LOL Even two PLL's happen regularly.



mark49152 said:


> Hello folks, I'm still here. Nice to see the regular progress on this thread!
> 
> I haven't cubed much recently, and when I have, it's been drilling algs or doing blind cross practice. I haven't had much time to cube in daylight hours so have been doing the kind of practice that still works in low light or can be done idly while on the phone concentrating on very important and interesting meetings
> 
> ...



Hey nice to see you here again. I wondered where you and Melody (SneaklyFox) had gone. All your PB's are faster than mine now. Good job! Now I have some work to do..LOL.. I think you will need the HuaLong also.. Did you order it allready? It is really great.


----------



## Logiqx (Apr 28, 2015)

Welcome back Mark and nice times.

You and Marcel are both around 1.5s faster than me now so I have some work to do if I'm to close the gap.

You are providing me with good motivation.


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## mark49152 (Apr 28, 2015)

That's a good point, where has Sneakly gone? Haven't seen her for a while.

I don't think I would still be cubing if it wasn't for this thread and the encouragement and camaraderie it provides.

This morning I did a quick average before work and was back to ~19.5, but that's fine because I got a chance to use Collin Burns' now-legendary OLL55 in a solve and that made me happy. My new favourite alg


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## Rocky0701 (Apr 28, 2015)

We should all spam her inbox haha. Nce to see you back Mark! Congrats on all of your new 3x3 PBs.


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## MarcelP (Apr 28, 2015)

mark49152 said:


> but that's fine because I got a chance to use Collin Burns' now-legendary OLL55 in a solve and that made me happy. My new favourite alg



I use it since Viktor (from expert F2L) showed it on Youtube in 2013.. It is a great algs indeed!!


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## mark49152 (Apr 28, 2015)

Rocky0701 said:


> Nce to see you back Mark! Congrats on all of your new 3x3 PBs.


Thanks dude. You're fast these days!



MarcelP said:


> I use it since Viktor (from expert F2L) showed it on Youtube in 2013.. It is a great algs indeed!!


I don't know who discovered it originally, but to me it will always be the Collin OLL, as he drew attention to it, much like the Fridrich method or the Rowe E perm 

Amazing to see how much news coverage this WR is getting. Makes me want to comment on all those reports telling them to look at average instead


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## Logiqx (Apr 28, 2015)

mark49152 said:


> I don't know who discovered it originally, but to me it will always be the Collin OLL, as he drew attention to it, much like the Fridrich method or the Rowe E perm



That's a nice alg. I will use it instead of the one I recently learnt.

Here's an F2L alg in return... one of my discoveries. I use it when BR is empty.

R' U' R U' R' U R2 U' R'


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## pipkiksass (Apr 28, 2015)

Hi guys, long time no see!

A non-cuber friend told me about Colin's WR (well that's a lie, they said "some kid" solved the Rubik's cube in under 5 seconds, so they got the 'rubik's cube' bit right, at least!), so I logged in to the forum for the first time in a couple of months of Sundays to verify it.

Glad to see this post still going strong. Mark, have you been off for a while too?


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## mark49152 (Apr 29, 2015)

Pip, hey I thought you had quit! Great to see you back.

I haven't really been anywhere - just very busy with work, travel and family, and much less time for cubing or forums.



Logiqx said:


> Here's an F2L alg in return... one of my discoveries. I use it when BR is empty.
> 
> R' U' R U' R' U R2 U' R'


That's good - more efficient than how I currently solve it. Thanks!

Here's one I call the Viktor F2L-24 

R U R2 F R F' R U' R'


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## pipkiksass (Apr 29, 2015)

Mark, what's Colin's "legendary" OLL 55?

I still have about 20 OLLs to learn, so...

Really need to get back in to cubing. It's been about 6/7 months and I haven't really done a timed solve at all. Just haven't had time, the little one is 2 1/2 now and demands most of my time that isn't filled with mundane tasks like mowing the lawn, etc.. Also work has been uber-busy, so very little time for cubing in general. 

I never did get round to BLD cross practice, how have you been practicing cross recently that's yielded these bursts of improvement? I'm always keen to piggy-back on other peoples' success!


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## MarcelP (Apr 29, 2015)

mark49152 said:


> much like the Fridrich method or the Rowe E perm



What is that one? I could use a nice E perm alg 



pipkiksass said:


> Mark, what's Colin's "legendary" OLL 55?



Hey Pip, here:


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## Logiqx (Apr 29, 2015)

pipkiksass said:


> Hi guys, long time no see!



Welcome back. I'd wondered whether you were still cubing. 



mark49152 said:


> R U R2 F R F' R U' R'



I think I first saw that in Felik's old F2L series. I still don't use it in my solves but maybe I should try to integrate it.



MarcelP said:


> What is that one? I could use a nice E perm alg



It's the standard one that almost everyone uses nowadays.

[Finger Trick] How to Execute the E Perm Like a Pro - https://youtu.be/Fqgw0MsnbWM

Edit 1: It's one of my favourite algs when it goes smoothly... just timed it at 1.3s.

Edit 2: Not like a pro (@20s) - https://youtu.be/TB7XoQB0ElM


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## MarcelP (Apr 29, 2015)

OMG OMG OMG





EDIT:


Spoiler



I am so excited!!! I would say rather lucky since I could easily see all pairs (3rd pair made on accident) with a nice PLL skip!

9.86 R2 D' R2 D U F2 R2 U2 L2 U' F2 R' F U F' D U2 F L' B' 

y x // inspection
D x' D2 R' L // cross (5)
U' R U' R' U R' U2 R L' U L //1ST (10)
U' R U' R' U2 R U2 R' U R U' R' //2ND (11)
y U R' U R //3RD (5)
R U' R' U' R U R' U2 R U' R' //4TH (9)
R U R' U' R' F R F' //OLL (8) 
U' // auf (1)
tps 4.9


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## h2f (Apr 29, 2015)

Wow. Nice! It looks like you've made a nice progress since you stopped to practice Roux. Maybe I should try CFOP again?


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## MarcelP (Apr 29, 2015)

h2f said:


> Wow. Nice! It looks like you've made a nice progress since you stopped to practice Roux. Maybe I should try CFOP again?



Well, actually I have not really improved a lot. But I have way more better singles. Few solves before this sub 10 I had a 11.86. Doing Roux or CFOP does not really matter. All that counts is that you practice a lot. I think Roux is a method that suits you well. Proven your lastest competition average with Roux.


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## Logiqx (Apr 29, 2015)

MarcelP said:


> OMG OMG OMG



Nice one... time to update your signature!


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## TDM (Apr 29, 2015)

pipkiksass said:


> Hi guys, long time no see!


Welcome back! 

Marcel: congrats on the sub-10!


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## mark49152 (Apr 29, 2015)

Hey Marcel, congrats on the sub-10!  How does that feel? 



pipkiksass said:


> Mark, what's Colin's "legendary" OLL 55?


See vid posted by Marcel a few posts back - not invented by Collin, but he used it in his WR solve and a few people commented that it was a great alg they had not seen before.



pipkiksass said:


> the little one is 2 1/2 now and demands most of my time


Yep mine too. It's a great age but incredibly hard work.



pipkiksass said:


> I never did get round to BLD cross practice, how have you been practicing cross recently that's yielded these bursts of improvement?


Ok here's the rules.
1. Scramble as normal.
2. Inspect and memorize the best cross solution you can find - no time limt. Sometimes I take minutes.
3. Close eyes, start timer, solve cross, stop timer, open eyes.
4. If you screwed up the cross, delete the time - we are measuring speed to do it right, not rate of mistakes.
5. Keep going until you've done 50 right, even if you mess up 100 times.

Obviously a fair measurement depends on giving every cross a fair shot, and not deliberately allowing the hard ones to screw up. If I am out only by a D-turn I allow the time to stand provided I did actually try to align it (no deliberate ignoring of the D face).

My average is about 1.9. Things I have learned: efficiency is important, but not as important as finger trickability. The best solutions are ones that flow as a single movement, even if move count is not low. I regularly get sub-1.5 or even sub-1 on those. Solutions that break into sections, especially with regrips, are usually sup-2 for me, even if the solution seems simple.


----------



## h2f (Apr 29, 2015)

MarcelP said:


> Well, actually I have not really improved a lot. But I have way more better singles. Few solves before this sub 10 I had a 11.86. Doing Roux or CFOP does not really matter. All that counts is that you practice a lot. I think Roux is a method that suits you well. Proven your lastest competition average with Roux.



Yes, you're right - it suits me better and all is a matter of practice. I've made few CFOP scrambles with nice 15.85 full step but it means nothing. So I will keep practicing Roux. Actually, I've never stopped practicing CFOP because I keep practice 4x4 and 5x5. 

But anyway - nice solve.


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## MarcelP (Apr 29, 2015)

Logiqx said:


> Nice one... time to update your signature!


Thanks, did it!


TDM said:


> Marcel: congrats on the sub-10!



Thanks! I will stick with CFOp for a while now 



mark49152 said:


> Hey Marcel, congrats on the sub-10!  How does that feel?



Like a million bucks  It was quite early in the morning so I was not warmed up enough for a shout of joy 

Btw, I got my Gan357 today.. made an unboxing video, can be found with my Youtube vids..


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## Logiqx (Apr 29, 2015)

Ah... progress!

I just got my first sub-20 Ao50. 

Fatigue started to set in after 60 solves. It has been a long day...



Spoiler



Title: 3x3x3 Cube
# of solving: 100

Std Dev: 1.664

Best of all: 14.151
Worst of all: 27.486
Average of all: 20.255

Best Avg of 5: 17.807
Best Avg of 12: 19.153
Best Avg of 25: 19.510
Best Avg of 50: 19.705
Best Avg of 100: 20.255

---- Generated by KingEn Timer v3.3

Solving times: 20.635 22.060 16.495 20.822 19.165 20.896 19.618 19.048 19.544 22.331 20.944 22.865 21.278 19.550 21.614 20.184 18.263 21.408 20.779 19.526 22.159 24.751 19.922 20.823 22.696 19.997 18.607 19.751 24.265 19.752 19.552 26.511 18.759 15.657 19.615 23.682 17.762 18.563 19.733 19.975 20.940 19.419 18.071 18.723 19.431 21.394 21.560 24.430 19.379 19.097 21.443 17.693 16.185 17.780 27.486 19.458 15.397 24.039 21.729 19.166 17.013 20.156 18.536 19.113 20.718 16.332 19.318 20.858 19.980 24.921 18.448 22.969 20.465 20.629 18.894 22.023 19.976 19.183 17.884 21.908 17.995 19.305 16.669 21.105 22.712 22.753 19.853 21.577 21.088 22.848 21.709 19.627 26.622 21.471 20.395 19.264 20.735 19.547 14.151 19.919


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## mark49152 (Apr 29, 2015)

Logiqx said:


> Ah... progress!
> 
> I just got my first sub-20 Ao50.


Nice one


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## MarcelP (Apr 30, 2015)

Logiqx said:


> Ah... progress!
> 
> I just got my first sub-20 Ao50.



Congrats. I have that a lot too, that the first 50 are better than the last. Maintaining focus is hard when you doing big averages.


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## Rocky0701 (Apr 30, 2015)

MarcelP said:


> OMG OMG OMG
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ui_B-9hZWQw
> 
> EDIT:
> ...


What the heck Marcel! My PB is only like 10.14 

Sweet solve though, and congrats!


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## MarcelP (Apr 30, 2015)

Rocky0701 said:


> What the heck Marcel! My PB is only like 10.14



LOL, sheer luck my man.. My averages are nowhere near yours. In fact, my single PB until a few weeks ago was a few seconds slower  Just had a 10.86 a week ago.


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## MarcelP (May 1, 2015)

Broke my Mo3 today with Gans356 by 0.07 

42. 15.29 R2 U F2 L2 D L2 D B2 D' R2 D2 L F L2 B F' U' F' L' F 
43. 13.87 R D' L' U2 R' U2 D' R U L2 B R2 U2 F' U2 L2 F R2 B 
44. 15.99 B' R2 D F2 D L2 F2 D2 B2 D F L' F' U' B2 F2 L' D' B'


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## MarcelP (May 1, 2015)

I hope no one thinks 'what a show off'.. But it is since these kind of solves are so rare for me that when they happen on camera I want every one to see it..LOL

Notice the U' U U' U' and y y y. I do that a lot. I sometimes need that to look for the next pair.. LOL



Spoiler



89. 12.07 U' F2 D2 L2 U' R2 F2 D L2 R B L' B D R2 F' R' B' U2 
x y2 // inspection
D' L F' L' U' B2 // cross (6)
y U' U U' U' R' U R //1st (8)
U R U' R' //2nd (4)
y y y R U2 R' U R U' R' //3rd (10)
U L' U L //4th (4)
U2 L' U' L U' L' U2 L //OLL (8)
U // auf (1)
41 moves 3.4 TPS


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## Logiqx (May 1, 2015)

MarcelP said:


> I hope no one thinks 'what a show off'.. But it is since these kind of solves are so rare for me that when they happen on camera I want every one to see it..LOL



Good to see these solves on film. I tried recording yesterday but I was too conscious of the camera. I got a few 16s singles (normal move counts iirc) but I didn't have time to review them before heading off for a short holiday.

Looks like you're getting on well with the 356.

I have yet to set up my HuaLong. I usually use Lubix for the core and Maru for the pieces but I'm all out of Lubix. I ordered some Traxxas (3 pack - 10k, 30k, 50k) earlier this week and it arrived yesterday. I'll probably do my new cubes next weekend.


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## mark49152 (May 1, 2015)

MarcelP said:


> I hope no one thinks 'what a show off'.. But it is since these kind of solves are so rare for me that when they happen on camera I want every one to see it..LOL


What's amazing about that solve is that it looks so slow and full of pauses yet still comes in at 12.07  Super calm and composed. You are certainly getting a few fast singles these days. 

Today I broke my PB ao50 and ao100 for the third time this week - 18.30 and 18.74 respectively. That's my 4th consecutive sub-19 ao100. Must be what I'm eating. Now for the next 2-3 weeks I have work trips and busy times so inevitably another break from cubing!


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## MarcelP (May 1, 2015)

Logiqx said:


> Good to see these solves on film. I tried recording yesterday but I was too conscious of the camera.



Yeah, that is why use the camera a lot. It gets me trained in being on the spot.



mark49152 said:


> What's amazing about that solve is that it looks so slow and full of pauses yet still comes in at 12.07  Super calm and composed. You are certainly getting a few fast singles these days.
> 
> Today I broke my PB ao50 and ao100 for the third time this week - 18.30 and 18.74 respectively. That's my 4th consecutive sub-19 ao100. Must be what I'm eating. Now for the next 2-3 weeks I have work trips and busy times so inevitably another break from cubing!


Nice going Mark. I did an 125 solves average today with the Gan356. I am not quite used to it's speed. I had a 20.08 average. You are definatly quite faster than me now


----------



## mark49152 (May 1, 2015)

MarcelP said:


> You are definatly quite faster than me now


I'm not really competitive, just keen to improve my own times. Funny how our PBs are all within 0.2-0.3s though, except for single. That's nothing, just 1-2%, and I'm sure I'll come back from my break to find you back in front


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## MarcelP (May 1, 2015)

mark49152 said:


> Funny how our PBs are all within 0.2-0.3s though, except for single. That's nothing, just 1-2%



Yeah, but I have had only one sub 19 Ao100 and sub 20 is even hard for me today  




mark49152 said:


> and I'm sure I'll come back from my break to find you back in front



That would be so nice.. I feel like I am almost a year at my current speed.. Time for some serious spurt I hope.


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## Logiqx (May 1, 2015)

MarcelP said:


> Yeah, that is why use the camera a lot. It gets me trained in being on the spot.
> 
> Nice going Mark. I did an 125 solves average today with the Gan356. I am not quite used to it's speed. I had a 20.08 average. You are definatly quite faster than me now



I'll try to record more often so that I don't notice it. Maybe catch some good solves by chance!

I only had time for 20 solves today but they came out pretty consistent despite having my g/f in the room...

# of solving: 20
Std Dev: 1.149
Best of all: 15.750
Worst of all: 21.953
Average of all: 19.668
Best Avg of 5: 18.941
Best Avg of 12: 19.277

Towards the end I was also having to answer occasional questions from my g/f. Usually followed by...

"Sorry. Did I mess up your time?"

Maybe it is a good way to get used to unexpected distractions!


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## MarcelP (May 2, 2015)

You are improving allright  Worst time 21.xx.. Keep it up..


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## sneaklyfox (May 2, 2015)

I haven't been on speedsolving for awhile now... busy playing a new game on my tablet... haven't cubed much though I do may a dozen solves a day... still got a sub-10 just now and really happy cuz it hasn't happened in awhile.

How are all my cubing buddies here?


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## sneaklyfox (May 2, 2015)

Oh my goodness Marcel sub-10 solve way to go!!! Was that your first one?

Loved the reaction... "Whaa.... whoaa..."


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## MarcelP (May 3, 2015)

sneaklyfox said:


> Oh my goodness Marcel sub-10 solve way to go!!! Was that your first one?
> 
> Loved the reaction... "Whaa.... whoaa..."



LOL.. yeah.. I have been getting some nice singles lately. Did you se also the reaction on the 12.07.. that was a little better  I was wondering where you had gone.. And yes, it was my first sub 10. I just had a 10.86 one or two weeks before that. So all in all I have been getting better singles but my averages stay the same (at the 20 secs range).


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## sneaklyfox (May 3, 2015)

mark49152 said:


> That's a good point, where has Sneakly gone? Haven't seen her for a while.





Rocky0701 said:


> We should all spam her inbox haha.





MarcelP said:


> LOL.. yeah.. I have been getting some nice singles lately. Did you se also the reaction on the 12.07.. that was a little better  I was wondering where you had gone..



Aww... I didn't know you all cared about me that much.  Hehe... I've been around and still cubing though a little less as game occupies my time more and definitely not on the forums much. A cube comp is happening pretty close to me later this month but I'm not able to go as I have to stay home to care for the kids... I guess I'll have to wait for another year.

Link to 12.07? Couldn't see it...


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## MarcelP (May 3, 2015)

sneaklyfox said:


> Aww... I didn't know you all cared about me that much.  Hehe...
> 
> 
> Link to 12.07? Couldn't see it...



You know you are my favorite female cuber.. LOL 



Spoiler



89. 12.07 U' F2 D2 L2 U' R2 F2 D L2 R B L' B D R2 F' R' B' U2 
x y2 // inspection
D' L F' L' U' B2 // cross (6)
y U' U U' U' R' U R //1st (8)
U R U' R' //2nd (4)
y y y R U2 R' U R U' R' //3rd (10)
U L' U L //4th (4)
U2 L' U' L U' L' U2 L //OLL (8)
U // auf (1)
41 moves 3.4 TPS







EDIT: such a shame you can't go to that competition.  Please tell you husband you are all fed up with that baby sitting nonsence and you need some time for your self  Ha ha..


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## Logiqx (May 6, 2015)

MarcelP said:


> You are improving allright  Worst time 21.xx.. Keep it up..



I'll try to keep it going. Daily solves do wonders for me but it can be hard to find time some days.

I did a couple of dozen solves earlier today and got a PB single of 13.68... full step but easy!

The session average scraped in at 19.97. I don't consider myself to be sub-20 yet but I've had a few sub-20 sessions.


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## MarcelP (May 7, 2015)

Logiqx said:


> I don't consider myself to be sub-20 yet but I've had a few sub-20 sessions.


Yeah.. me too. I am only sub 20 on a good day. I had three sub 20 Ao100's this week. But a 20.40 yesterday.. Did you save the scamble (and solution) on the 13.68?


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## Logiqx (May 7, 2015)

Here's the scramble: F' R' F' R' U' F' B2 D' B2 U' R F R' D R B' R2 F2 R' F' R2 D' R' L D

Unfortunately, I was unable to reproduce my solution although the cross options seemed to be the same.

I seem to remember taking 4-5 moves for the cross, 2 or 3 lucky pairs which were 3 moves, sune/anti-sune and a fast PLL (H, U, J).

I couldn't even remember the PLL afterwards but I was in shock after seeing a time 2 seconds faster than my good daily singles. lol


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## MarcelP (May 7, 2015)

How about something like:

F' R' F' R' U' F' B2 D' B2 U' R F R' D R B' R2 F2 R' F' R2 D' R' L D
x2 y' // inspection, yeah white cross
R B' L' R2 D // cross
U2 L' U L // lucky pair 1
R' U2 R //lucky pair 2


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## Logiqx (May 7, 2015)

That's what I see when trying to reconstruct but it leads me to a different LL every time.

I just attempted to do some recording and caught a decent single... 14.43:

Scramble:
R2 D2 U2 F' R2 U2 B U2 R2 B' F D' B' U L' R2 D R2 B F' L2

Solution:
z2 y'
r U' r' L' u' R2
U' y' R U R'
U' y R' U' R
R U' R' U R U R'
U' L U' L' U L U L'
U' r U R' U' r' R U R U' R'
U R U' R' U' R U R D R' U' R D' R' U2 R' U'

OLL was finished by 10.30s but I butchered the PLL!


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## MarcelP (May 7, 2015)

Logiqx said:


> That's what I see when trying to reconstruct but it leads me to a different LL every time.
> 
> I just attempted to do some recording and caught a decent single... 14.43:
> 
> ...



Nice!! Smooth and slow turning except OLL and PLL. 30 secs inspection must have done the trick LOL


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## Logiqx (May 7, 2015)

Lol, yes... 19 seconds by my reckoning.

I've had my first sub-40 OH session.



Spoiler



Generated By csTimer on 2015-5-7
solves/total: 19/19

single
best: 31.45
worst: 48.59

mean of 3
current: 39.61 (σ = 3.78)
best: 35.70 (σ = 3.92)

avg of 5
current: 37.72 (σ = 1.32)
best: 36.73 (σ = 1.18)

avg of 12
current: 38.72 (σ = 2.41)
best: 38.47 (σ = 1.91)

Average: 39.16 (σ = 3.11)
Mean: 39.25

Time List:
1. 41.26 F2 U' B2 R2 L D' R B' D B2 D2 B2 D2 L' B2 L' B2 D2 R2 D2 
2. 43.75 U2 L2 F' D2 R2 D2 B D2 B F' U' L D2 F R D F' L2 F' 
3. 39.17 R F2 B' L B2 U' F' B' U' B2 R2 D2 B2 U R2 D' B2 D' B2 L 
4. 31.45 F L2 U2 B R2 D2 U2 F' R2 F' D2 R D' B R B2 L U L' F2 D 
5. 36.47 R2 D2 R' F' L B R' F D' U2 F2 B2 R L2 D2 L2 D2 B2 L2 
6. 43.92 B' R2 B U' L' D2 R F2 L F' L2 B R2 F D2 F U2 D2 F L2 
7. 41.24 F D2 R2 B2 F' U2 R2 U2 R2 B' D' R2 U L' R B F2 D2 
8. 36.11 D F2 D L2 B2 D F2 D F2 U' L' U F L B2 F R B R B' 
9. 39.61 F' R' L2 B2 U' F D B' U R U2 F2 B2 R D2 R U2 R' F2 L2 
10. 40.52 D B2 R2 B2 R2 D B2 D2 L2 F2 R2 B' R U' F R U B2 L R U' 
11. 38.25 U2 B2 R2 D B2 U' B2 F2 L2 D' B2 R B F D' R2 B2 R' F2 L' 
12. 48.59 L2 B L2 B F2 U2 F' U2 L2 F' R B' F' D U2 R B' D' F R' 
13. 35.86 D2 R2 F2 R' U2 B2 D2 R2 D2 R F' R U' F' U2 L' U' F D 
14. 39.93 L' B2 R2 U2 R2 B' D2 U2 L2 B D2 U2 R' U' L2 D' B2 R F L2 B2 
15. 38.07 L2 R2 U L2 D' R2 F2 U B2 F2 U2 R' B F2 D L' R' B' U' F2 R' 
16. 32.77 U L2 D B2 R2 U R2 U2 F2 L2 F' R2 U B D F2 L' R2 B' 
17. 36.27 B2 F2 D2 B2 R2 D' F2 D F2 L2 R B2 F' D F' L' F U R2 D 
18. 38.84 D2 F U2 F' B2 R' B' U L' U L2 D2 F2 U B2 U' R2 B2 L2 D' 
19. 43.72 R2 F2 U L2 U2 F2 R2 U2 B2 D L' D U2 B' U2 R' D' B U B2


The fastest Ao12 / Ao5 is on YouTube. The Ao5 starts at 6:43...


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## MarcelP (May 7, 2015)

Very good! I could never do that!


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## Logiqx (May 7, 2015)

MarcelP said:


> Very good! I could never do that!



Thanks. You surely can do it but it will take a bit of practice.


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## Logiqx (May 8, 2015)

Lunchtime session... I seem to be on a roll with my OH solves.

Mean of 38.09 after 29 solves (Ao5 33.31, Ao12 36.80) and a full step single of 25.63.

Scramble:
U2 L2 R2 B2 D L2 U B2 R2 U2 F2 B' D2 F R2 D' F L2 R D R

Solution:
z2 y
u2' R L F' L2' // Cross (5/5)
R' U2' R U' y' L U L' // F2L #1 (7/12)
U' R' U' R L' U L // F2L #2 (7/19)
y R U' R' // F2L #3 (3/22)
U2' y' R U' R' U2' R U' R' // F2L #4 (8/30)
R U R' U R U2' R' // OLL (7/37)
U R U' R U R U R U' R' U' R2 U' // PLL (13/50)


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## MarcelP (May 8, 2015)

Logiqx said:


> Lunchtime session... I seem to be on a roll with my OH solves.
> 
> Mean of 38.09 after 29 solves (Ao5 33.31, Ao12 36.80) and a full step single of 25.63.
> 
> ...



LOL, that end  25 secs is pretty awesome... I have done a few sup 25 solves with 2H today


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## Logiqx (May 8, 2015)

Hehe... I'm assuming you're referring to my thumbs up as opposed to the easy LL cases. 

Are you tempted to give OH a proper try yet? I think my left hand is becoming more dextrous than it has been for years!


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## MarcelP (May 9, 2015)

Tempted a bit yeah. I did a few OH solves yesterday.. but I did not know a single OLL any more.. LOL Time to bring out my OH cheat cheat.












Then make Headlights on all sides:
R' U L' U2 R U' R' U2 R L (PERFORM with BAR or HEADLIGHTS on F)

Which results in one of these:


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## Logiqx (May 9, 2015)

Cool. Here are another couple of suggestions for headlights and chameleon.

I use Sune / anti-sune mirrors which include a small cancellation (R2).

U - R U R’ U R U2’ R2 U’ R U’ R’ U2’ R
T - R U2’ R’ U’ R U’ R2 U2’ R U R’ U R

Learning to mirror front and back can save a bit of time.

Wide versions can also be used for Bunny and Mickey cases. They can also be mirrored F/B:

18 - r U R' U R U2 r2 U' R U' R' U2 r
19 - r' U2 R U R' U r2 U2 R' U' R U' r'

The same principal can also be used for two of the awkward cases:

29 - (r U2 R' U' R U' r') (R' U2 R U R' U R)
30 - (r' U2 R U R' U r) (R U2 R' U' R U' R')

For all of these cases the recognition and initial AUF is all about the mis-oriented corners.


Good luck with the OH!


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## Logiqx (May 19, 2015)

This thread has gone very quiet. How's the OH going Marcel?

I just did my first Ao100. Unfortunately I wasn't recording... I'd have liked to have caught the best singles - 22.61 and 24.07.



Spoiler



Generated By csTimer on 2015-5-19
solves/total: 100/100

single
best: *22.61*
worst: 53.61

mean of 3
current: 42.61 (σ = 4.69)
best: 32.63 (σ = 8.68)

avg of 5
current: 40.77 (σ = 0.25)
best: 34.03 (σ = 0.34)

avg of 12
current: 40.43 (σ = 3.71)
best: *35.17 *(σ = 2.42)

avg of 50
current: 39.55 (σ = 3.78)
best: *38.63 *(σ = 3.76)

avg of 100
current: 39.70 (σ = 4.12)
best: *39.70 *(σ = 4.12)

Average: 39.70 (σ = 4.12)
Mean: 39.63

Time List:
1. 34.59 R2 F' U B U D L F' R' B2 R2 D' F2 B2 U' B2 U2 L2 U' R2 
2. 42.29 F L2 B2 F' D2 F D2 L2 B' U2 R' B2 R D' F2 R' B U2 F' 
3. 38.93 F' L2 B U2 F2 R2 U2 L2 B U2 F' D B L F' U2 L2 D' F' U' R2 
4. 32.20 L2 F2 D' U2 B2 U L2 D L2 R U' B' L D' B' F' L2 U' L2 R' 
5. 38.83 B2 L2 B2 D' B2 U' L2 B2 F2 U B2 L' B' D' B' R' U B2 L' R' U' 
6. 39.47 R' F' B R' F L2 D2 F U' D2 B' D2 L2 B' R2 F U2 F' L2 B2 
7. 46.11 L F2 L2 R U2 R B2 F2 D2 F2 L B' U L2 D L' B2 D' B' F' R 
8. 38.41 B' D F2 D2 F2 D B2 D R2 D F2 R' F L F2 L' U R B' 
9. 51.27 B' F2 L2 B2 U2 F2 U2 F2 L B2 R F2 D L' B F R' F D' L U2 
10. 36.94 D2 F' U2 B L2 B' U2 B' R2 D2 U2 L' U' R2 U B2 D L2 B F2 
11. 33.18 D' R D2 R2 U L B' L' B2 D2 L2 B2 R2 D' R2 F2 D2 L' 
12. 37.67 R' F2 U2 R B2 D2 B2 D2 L D2 L B' R2 D2 F U F' L2 B U' 
13. 47.13 U2 L F2 R' U B D' F' R' L2 U2 B R2 B' D2 B' U2 D2 B D 
14. 40.82 F U2 R U F R D F' L' U F2 D R2 U2 R2 U2 L2 D 
15. 34.25 B2 F' D2 L2 B' U2 R2 U2 B2 F' D' R' F U' B R' U' L D2 F' 
16. 41.36 B2 L2 F2 R2 U2 B' L2 F2 R2 D2 F2 D B2 U' R' B D2 L' F' L2 R 
17. 46.68 U B2 L' D2 B2 L' F2 D2 B2 L' B2 R B' U2 L D' L' R' U2 F' 
18. 38.27 L' U2 F2 L D2 R F2 U2 R2 U2 R' U' F2 R D2 R F' L F2 L U' 
19. 35.68 U' L U' R B U F2 D' R L2 F2 U F2 D' B2 R2 D2 F2 B2 
20. 42.73 D2 L' D L' F U2 B R' U L' U D2 F2 U2 F2 R2 F2 U' B2 D' F2 
21. 36.05 D' R U' L' F' R' B2 R' U' F R2 B2 U2 F2 B2 R2 D' R2 B2 U F2 
22. 46.05 R F2 U2 L2 F' U2 F R2 U2 F U' F2 L' D U' 
23. 28.76 D U F2 D' R2 U L2 F2 R2 F2 U B' U2 L' B U F' R' D L R2 
24. 34.50 L2 B2 U L2 U R2 F2 D L2 U' R' U' L2 U2 F2 R2 D2 F R2 
25. 45.30 F2 U2 L2 B2 U L2 D F2 L2 U B2 L R D F R2 D2 R' U' R2 B 
26. 40.61 F2 U2 R2 B' F' D2 U2 R2 F D' B2 L F L' R' D' L2 B F2 
27. 34.97 D2 F2 R' F2 L U2 B2 R F2 D2 U' L U2 F2 L F R2 U L R' 
28. 41.73 F R' B' U2 L' F' R D L U B2 D2 F U2 R2 B U2 B D2 R2 D2 
29. 41.70 D2 F2 U2 L' R2 F2 L' D2 R' F2 D2 B D' R' F R' D U F2 L' 
30. 42.01 F B L' B' U F R2 U2 R' F2 R2 D B2 L2 D B2 U' L2 U' D' L' 
31. 37.60 R' D2 U2 L' F2 R2 B2 L2 U2 R' D2 U' B U2 B' D' B R' F' R' 
32. 47.01 U L' F U D' R' U2 B' U L' U' D' F2 L2 B2 R2 F2 D F2 
33. 45.78 U R2 U2 R2 D' B2 U2 L2 U' R2 U' F' D' L' R2 D' U2 F D B2 F' 
34. 36.61 D' F2 U2 R2 F2 U2 R F2 R' D2 U2 L B' R' U' L' B2 D F' R' D' 
35. 43.12 F D2 L2 U B2 L2 D R2 D B2 R2 U2 B L F2 R F2 D F' L' U 
36. 40.45 F2 D2 R2 D B2 D' B2 D F2 R F D2 R' D' U L' U L2 F2 
37. 40.30 R D2 B2 F2 D R2 D2 B2 F2 R2 U L2 R' F2 R' B L2 F' U2 R B 
38. 47.29 F2 U L2 F2 L2 F2 D' F2 R2 D' U' F' D' L2 D' U' B L' D R2 F2 
39. 29.86 B L2 D' L U B L F' B R2 B2 R2 D L2 D' F2 B2 L2 D L2 
40. 47.69 L D' R2 D F2 U' L2 B2 L2 U2 F2 U2 R F' D2 B L2 U' B2 L' D2 
41. 40.56 L2 B2 D2 F L2 F' L2 R2 U2 F U' R2 U L' D2 L2 F R' D' B2 
42. 46.73 R2 U2 B' F2 U2 L2 R2 U2 L2 B' F2 U' L' D' U2 R' B F' L' D' L 
43. 44.28 B2 R2 D F2 D' F2 L2 F2 D2 U' B2 F' D2 R B D' B2 R D2 L2 R' 
44. 40.78 F' D2 L2 F2 L2 B U2 B' L2 U2 B2 L' U R' D B' U2 R' U B2 L' 
45. 41.66 F' U2 F D2 L2 B' U2 L2 F2 D2 L2 D' R F2 D U' L' U' L2 U F2 
46. 34.12 D' L' U2 F2 D2 B2 R2 D2 R2 U2 L F' D2 R F2 R' U R U' R 
47. 32.95 B' L B U' R2 L F U2 B2 R2 U2 B2 R2 L U2 D2 F2 R2 F' 
48. 37.78 R2 B2 D2 U F2 U R2 U R2 U B' R2 U2 L' D' B L D U2 
49. 34.32 F2 R' F2 L2 F2 R U2 R F2 L F' D' U2 L2 R B2 R2 D' B' U' 
50. 33.66 R L2 U2 F D2 B' L2 D2 B2 U2 B' L2 R B' U2 F' R F' U L 
51. 37.89 R D' L2 F' R U2 F' D L B L2 F2 U2 F L2 D2 F2 D2 F2 L2 
52. 32.56 R2 F2 D R2 D R2 F2 U' B2 F L' U' L' F R' F' U' L D' 
53. 37.59 F2 L2 D F2 L2 U B2 D2 U' R2 U R' B' L' U2 L' F R' D2 U 
54. 38.31 R U D' L D2 B' U B R2 F2 R2 L2 D' B2 R2 L2 D' B2 U2 F' 
55. 32.53 U2 L2 U2 R2 U2 F2 D2 B' L2 F' R2 U' B' L2 B U2 L D B2 U' F 
56. 31.94 L2 F' B2 R2 F D L B' D2 R2 L2 F L2 B U2 D2 F U2 L 
57. 39.21 L' F2 U L2 U R2 B2 U' L2 D2 R2 B2 R D2 F L D L2 B L2 
58. 42.06 B F2 L2 D F2 U' B2 U' R2 D2 F2 D2 R U2 L' F' L2 B2 R' B2 
59. 39.50 L2 B2 D' L2 D' B2 R2 U L2 B2 U2 L' B' R2 B' U2 B' D R U2 B 
60. 35.86 D U2 R2 B' U2 F2 U2 F' L2 F' R2 F2 D' R' F R' D' R2 D' U2 
61. 31.91 B2 L2 D2 B2 L2 B L2 D2 B' U F2 D L2 D R' D2 B U F2 
62. 40.40 R' L2 F' R2 F2 D2 B L2 F2 D2 F' R2 U R B2 U2 L2 F D' B2 
63. 42.49 U2 B' D2 U2 B2 R2 F D2 B2 L2 U2 R' B2 U B L U R2 B U' R' 
64. 38.18 D' L2 D2 R2 B2 F2 U F2 R2 U L2 F' U2 B L B F' R' U' F2 L' 
65. 41.28 R2 D' U' R2 F2 U2 B2 D L2 F R D' F L' B U2 F' D F' 
66. 46.21 D' F2 U' B2 D L2 U2 F2 U' L2 U R B U' F L2 D' U' L2 D' L 
67. 40.90 D2 F L2 B2 D2 L2 F' U2 F' U2 F' U F2 R D' F' R2 U L' U F2 
68. 40.30 L2 D2 F2 D' F2 U B2 R2 D' U' B2 R B L2 B D R' F' U' L' B 
69. 40.80 L2 D' U2 F2 U B2 L2 B2 F2 D2 B2 L D' L F L' F' D B' F' R' 
70. 39.01 F2 R2 U B2 U F2 D' R2 U L2 U B' L' R2 B D' B2 U2 R2 F D 
71. 37.63 F' D2 L2 F' L2 R2 B D2 U2 F U2 R B' F2 R D' B2 R B' L F' 
72. 37.65 F2 U' L2 U' L U2 B R2 F R' D2 L2 D F2 U2 F2 D R2 L2 D F2 
73. 22.61 R' F2 B D' L' U D B2 L D' F2 R2 B2 R2 D' B2 U L2 F2 D' 
74. 40.22 L F2 R2 U' L2 D U F2 D' R2 F2 U2 F' L2 U' B2 F U R' D' F 
75. 38.35 B2 D R2 B D2 F2 L' B' U R' L2 U2 B2 R2 D2 B2 R U2 B2 U2 
76. 30.06 U2 L2 D2 B2 U2 L F2 L' B2 R' B2 D B' U' B U' R' U L D2 
77. 43.33 B U F' B2 L2 D R U' R U2 F2 U2 L D2 F2 L' U2 B2 L U' 
78. 44.42 F L D B L B2 R L2 D' F2 R2 F2 L' U2 L U2 R2 B2 L' D2 
79. 24.07 D2 L2 F2 U' F2 U2 R2 D U' R2 F' D' L' D2 R' U L' B2 F U' 
80. 42.95 F2 D2 R2 D' F2 R2 U R2 B2 F2 U L' U2 R F2 U2 L2 U L' F U2 
81. 53.61 D2 F2 D' L2 U2 B2 R2 D' F2 U2 R2 F' L B2 U R D' F L2 D' B 
82. 38.47 R' D R2 U' R2 D L2 D' F2 U2 B2 U' L D2 U' R U F U' L D 
83. 38.20 B2 U2 L2 F2 R2 B R2 U2 L2 D2 F D L' D2 U2 B L F L B2 U' 
84. 53.35 L2 F2 U' B2 F2 U' F2 U2 B2 R2 F R2 D B' F' L B L2 R U' 
85. 48.31 R2 D2 R' U2 R2 D2 F2 R' D2 B2 D2 B' D2 F L' U' B2 D R2 F' U 
86. 41.84 R2 U L' B2 U' F R' B' U' L F2 B2 D' L2 U2 D' F2 D F2 L2 D2 
87. 43.53 L2 B2 R2 U' L2 R2 U L2 U R2 U L' D2 U' F' L2 B D2 L2 D' L2 
88. 37.35 B2 U2 L' F2 U' F B2 D B2 R2 B2 D2 B2 U' B2 D F2 R 
89. 37.01 L' U2 B2 R B2 L D2 B2 U2 R U2 F' U' F U' B' U' B2 F' L2 
90. 35.01 R2 D' B2 R2 U L2 F2 D' B2 R' D' L F' L' U2 L U' B' D' 
91. 36.72 F L2 R2 D2 L2 B L2 R2 B' D2 U2 L B2 D' L2 U F2 R2 U2 F R' 
92. 47.54 B' L' D' F B R' U F2 B R L2 U2 D2 B' L2 F2 D2 F' L2 B R2 
93. 39.92 B U2 L2 D2 R2 F2 L2 U' L2 D2 B2 R2 B' L' U' L' U L2 U L R' 
94. 36.25 F' U2 L2 U' F D' R F' R2 L2 F2 U2 B2 U2 R F2 R2 D2 B2 U 
95. 45.66 L2 D2 B R2 F L2 F' D2 F L2 B2 L F2 D U B R B2 F' R2 D 
96. 40.73 U2 F' R F' B' U L D' R U' B2 D R2 U' R2 U2 L2 B2 U R2 B' 
97. 40.55 F2 L' D2 L2 F2 U2 L' B2 U2 F2 U' R2 U F' D2 R U B L2 
98. 38.90 L2 B2 L2 B' D2 B' L2 B L2 D F2 D2 B2 D L U F2 L R2 
99. 47.88 L' D2 L U2 F2 L' R' F2 R' D2 B2 D' B' F' D2 U R F D2 B2 R2 
100. 41.05 B' U2 B2 F2 U' F2 U2 L2 U' B' D' B L B' U' L B' R'


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## MarcelP (May 20, 2015)

Logiqx said:


> This thread has gone very quiet. How's the OH going Marcel?



Hi Michael,

Nice average! I have not been doing many OH. Just a few per day. I have done about 10 days of 2H practice. 100 timed solves per day or so with some target practice (blind crosses). The results are so very very disappointing. I am hardly sub 20 these days. I do not know what is going on. Probably lookahead is not working as it should.. I just recorder these 12 (first solves of the day). It is a sub 20 average with a very nice full step non lucky 15 but the rest pretty much sucked major.






EDIT: Cube Moyu HuaLong, scambles in description on Youtube if anyone cares.


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## Logiqx (May 20, 2015)

I'm sure your good times will return Marcel.

Bad sessions for me are always due to poor look ahead and relying on my reactions. These sessions sometimes happen the day after I have a particularly good session when look ahead was working well and I was turning fast. I try to use the same turn speed but my eyes don't seem to keep up!

Maybe take a little break with a few days of Roux or ZZ?


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## MarcelP (May 21, 2015)

Logiqx said:


> Maybe take a little break with a few days of Roux or ZZ?



That is actually a great idea. And it might take more than a little while  ZZ sounds also good to look into. I have never looked into ZZ because it sound hard with making all egdes good edges instead of bad edges after inspection.


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## Logiqx (May 21, 2015)

Yeah. ZZ is quite fun and will be something new. I did a dozen or so solves yesterday.

EO takes a bit of getting used to and I would struggle to plan in 15 seconds but it's nice to do something different occasionally.

The main part of the solve flows nicely (left and right blocks) and has some commonality with your Roux SB techniques, minus M slice of course.


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## Schmidt (May 21, 2015)

also, you still need to beat me at 4x4x4! You beat me in 2x2x2 in the weekly


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## Logiqx (May 21, 2015)

MarcelP said:


> That is actually a great idea. And it might take more than a little while  ZZ sounds also good to look into. I have never looked into ZZ because it sound hard with making all egdes good edges instead of bad edges after inspection.



asmallkitten has some good ZZ videos on YouTube iirc. Enjoy!


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## MarcelP (May 21, 2015)

Schmidt said:


> You beat me in 2x2x2 in the weekly



LOL, well that's a first. I always finish last or second last in 2x2.  My 4X4 is as good as it will ever get because even with regular practice I do not gain any more. I am pleased with being around 1.50 secs average. I remember clearly not getting any sub 2's and wondered how people did that 




Logiqx said:


> asmallkitten has some good ZZ videos on YouTube iirc. Enjoy!



Yeah, I am planning on spending some time on that this weekend.


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## mark49152 (May 27, 2015)

Came back from a couple of weeks off and annihilated all 3x3 PBs except single. Gotta take more breaks  5/12/50/100 = 15.65/16.79/17.47/17.93. Man it felt good to check my times at the end and see that sub-18 ao100!


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## MarcelP (May 27, 2015)

mark49152 said:


> Came back from a couple of weeks off and annihilated all 3x3 PBs except single. Gotta take more breaks  5/12/50/100 = 15.65/16.79/17.47/17.93. Man it felt good to check my times at the end and see that sub-18 ao100!



That is amazing Mark! I am too adicted to quite for a while. LOL... My times are picking up a bit but are no-where near yours.. Most of my Ao50's are between 19.40 and 19.90.. Sub 20 is rare.. 

Just filmed this 5 minutes ago and is uploading..



Spoiler



73. 19.05 L2 D2 B2 D B2 L2 D R2 B2 R2 D2 F U L U' R' D' B' F' D L U'
74. 19.07 U' B2 L2 B2 L2 U' F2 D' B2 D' L2 B' D2 L B' U' R' D2 F' U L' D
75. 18.29 R2 D2 B2 L2 D' B2 L2 U F2 D' F2 R D' L F' R' B' F' U F L' U2
76. DNF could not decide on cross color D B2 L2 U' R2 D' B2 D B2 U R' F' D B' D2 L' B' U' R' L2 B' L'
77. 14.55 U' L2 B2 U' F2 D2 R2 F2 U B2 U2 R' D2 B' F' U L2 F R' D F'
78. 18.43 L2 D' F2 D2 F2 U L2 D' F2 R2 U' F D' U' L' U B F2 R' D' U
79. 17.54 R2 F2 R2 B2 L2 U F2 D2 B2 U' B2 R' U' L2 B' L D2 F' L' U L2 D'


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## Logiqx (May 28, 2015)

mark49152 said:


> Came back from a couple of weeks off and annihilated all 3x3 PBs except single. Gotta take more breaks  5/12/50/100 = 15.65/16.79/17.47/17.93. Man it felt good to check my times at the end and see that sub-18 ao100!



Well done. You seem to have been improving very nicely these past few months.


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## mark49152 (May 28, 2015)

MarcelP said:


> That is amazing Mark! I am too adicted to quite for a while. LOL... My times are picking up a bit but are no-where near yours.. Most of my Ao50's are between 19.40 and 19.90.. Sub 20 is rare..





Logiqx said:


> Well done. You seem to have been improving very nicely these past few months.



Well, I had one session on fire, and it will be hard to beat. I spent a long time at a plateau around 20-21 then something clicked (lookahead?) and I dropped to 18-19 quite quickly. Improvement seems to come in bursts.


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## mark49152 (Jun 1, 2015)

Some observations regarding plateaus: I keep an Excel sheet of my progress including a plot of my progress as averages against date, but it occurred to me that perhaps the fact I take so many breaks may be obscuring some interesting trend. So I plotted averages versus cumulative number of solves, instead. Surprisingly, when plotted this way it shows my progress has been remarkably steady, with no obvious plateaus. 

So why do I feel like I get stuck on plateaus? Perhaps it's just because PBs represent the most downward spikes in the graph, and because averages jump around a lot in the short term, not only can PBs persist for a long time but it can feel like I'm not improving even though the overall trend is still downward.

See the attached graph. Main plot shows best ao50 of each average >50, plotted against cumulative number of solves - the horizontal axis doesn't get populated for some reason, but spans about 9000 solves, and the vertical axis is seconds minus 15. The trend shows exponential convergence on 15 seconds. The orange lines mark PBs that persisted for a while and may have felt like plateaus at the time (if you look at the second plateau, for example, you can clearly see why I might have felt stuck, as the short-term trend was reversed, but in the bigger picture it's nothing).


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## MarcelP (Jun 2, 2015)

That is really cool. I wish I had entered more data in a sheet for reference. I too feel a lot like I have big plateau's. Especially the one I am now. But when I look in my averages document I see I have an Ao100 PB of 23 secs a little over a year ago.. So the last year I have been going from 23 to 20 which is still progress.. The 32 to 23 took 6 months so it just feels like a plateau. But in fact it is not. I was actually feeling a bit bored with not gaining any speed lately but your progress has made me want to some practice again. I just wait and see what my speed is in about 6 months


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## Logiqx (Jun 2, 2015)

Nice. I might knock up something similar later this week. I've got the necessary data in Excel.


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## mark49152 (Jun 2, 2015)

MarcelP said:


> So the last year I have been going from 23 to 20 which is still progress.. The 32 to 23 took 6 months so it just feels like a plateau. But in fact it is not.


I always expected that progress would slow down, that's kinda obvious, and is why I guess at an exponential convergence on some minimum achievable time. However, when I got around low 20s, I formed the opinion that the process of improvement is very different at that speed. Above say 25, it's all about gaining competence, not speed. Around sub-25 you have good competence but now you have to go faster. It's interesting to see this on the graph. I don't have data before this, but you can see a steep drop to around 25 and that's where the steady declining trend kicks in.



MarcelP said:


> I was actually feeling a bit bored with not gaining any speed lately but your progress has made me want to some practice again. I just wait and see what my speed is in about 6 months


Bored with cubing...? No!! . On my plot against time it looks like I could be sub-17 by end of this year, so that's my target, but I now know I have to average 100 solves/week to achieve that. Actually doesn't sound like much.


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## Logiqx (Jun 2, 2015)

It looks like I have suitable data going back to 45s averages. Prior to that I only did a dozen timed solves at a time. I'll see what the graph looks like later this week.

I stopped maintaining my progress graph last year but it was based on session averages each month. This always showed steady improvement since it was at a monthly level and avoided the plateaus which PB tracking can exhibit.


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## MarcelP (Jun 2, 2015)

mark49152 said:


> Above say 25, it's all about gaining competence, not speed. Around sub-25 you have good competence but now you have to go faster.



I think I still have a lot to learn. Just the other day on a Facebook group I posted a reconstruction and Brest PM-ed me about one of the F2L's. I did a 12 - 14 move solution (I will look it up tonight and post here) where Brest had a 8 move solution.  My movecount is a bit on the high end for being super cool..



mark49152 said:


> Bored with cubing...? No!! . On my plot against time it looks like I could be sub-17 by end of this year, so that's my target, but I now know I have to average 100 solves/week to achieve that. Actually doesn't sound like much.



I try to do at least 50 per day (timed). I feel like sub 18 is an easy goal. I have big sessions with getting six 17.xx's in a row without problems.. But in the end the Ao100 is barely sub 20.. 



Logiqx said:


> It looks like I have suitable data going back to 45s averages. Prior to that I only did a dozen timed solves at a time. I'll see what the graph looks like later this week.
> 
> I stopped maintaining my progress graph last year but it was based on session averages each month. This always showed steady improvement since it was at a monthly level and avoided the plateaus which PB tracking can exhibit.



A shame you do not have data up untill today


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## Logiqx (Jun 2, 2015)

MarcelP said:


> A shame you do not have data up untill today



I still record my individual sessions, I just don't produce the graph of monthly averages.

Here's a chart that I just produced which is very similar to Mark's one showing plateaus.



Notes:

- Almost all of my solves are timed but the general shape is still pretty similar, just showing more solves in total.
- The slower times from 16,000 to 18,000 show my return to 3x3 after a two month abstinence.

I haven't cubed for the past fortnight so I need to get back to it before that happens again!


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## MarcelP (Jun 2, 2015)

Logiqx said:


> Here's a chart that I just produced which is very similar to Mark's one showing plateaus.
> 
> View attachment 5185



Cool.. the blue line is going up in the end.. That's something to worry about.. LOL


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## Logiqx (Jun 2, 2015)

MarcelP said:


> Cool.. the blue line is going up in the end.. That's something to worry about.. LOL



Yup... 



Logiqx said:


> - The slower times from 16,000 to 18,000 show my return to 3x3 after a two month abstinence.



Fortunately 16,000 onwards is still showing a downward trend.

Edit: Granted, the last data point was not a great session.


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## Logiqx (Jun 2, 2015)

MarcelP said:


> ... your progress has made me want to some practice again. I just wait and see what my speed is in about 6 months



Ditto


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## MarcelP (Jun 2, 2015)

MarcelP said:


> Just the other day on a Facebook group I posted a reconstruction and Brest PM-ed me about one of the F2L's. I did a 12 - 14 move solution (I will look it up tonight and post here) where Brest had a 8 move solution.



Set up: R U' R' U R U2 R'


Mine: U' R U' R' U2 R U2 R' U R U' (Well, less than 12 moves but I have been doing that for 3 years now  )


Brest: R U2 R' U' R U R'

Still so much stuff to learn..


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## mark49152 (Jun 2, 2015)

Logiqx said:


> - Almost all of my solves are timed but the general shape is still pretty similar, just showing more solves in total.
> - The slower times from 16,000 to 18,000 show my return to 3x3 after a two month abstinence.


2000 solves seems a long recovery from a break. Apart from that it's similar shape indeed. Have you estimated what potential time your trend is converging on?

In my graph I used an exponential best fit converging on 15 secs because at the time, I couldn't see myself progressing beyond that. Just out of curiosity, I just tried other trendlines with different target times, to see which gives the best fit (highest R^2)... and guess what? 7 seconds! Watch out Feliks 



MarcelP said:


> Still so much stuff to learn..


Dude, you should be embarrassed by that one . 

It's a good example though. You're fast enough that you should know that one, but when we're slower, much of our improvement comes from learning solutions like this, becoming more efficient, learning more algs to reduce move count and recognition cost, getting both hands comfortable with solving, spending less time hunting all over the cube, and generally getting familiar with how the cube works. At 25 seconds we might typically do 60 moves at 3 tps plus 5 seconds total pauses. That really doesn't require speed - it's just competent solving - but it's about as fast as you can get with just competent, comfortable solving, IMHO. To progress much beyond that, we need to start pushing beyond our comfortable tps, looking ahead, staying composed at faster speed, etc. - generally focusing more on speed than just competent solving.

There's no abrupt cut-off of course and there's always more to learn, but for me, I feel like since low/mid-20s my solutions are now pretty decent and won't improve greatly between now and sub-10 - instead it's all down to technique and speed. A few months ago, the difference between a good and bad solve would be whether I had to use 2-look OLL, couldn't find my F2L pairs, or lost a piece during cross; now, the difference between a good and bad solve is whether I find a finger-trickable cross solution, fumble some awkward rotations or regrips, stay composed and accurate or get catches during algs, lose concentration on my lookahead, etc.

---

Changing subject, I've been doing PLL recognition practice this week and found it good fun. See what you think. What I do is this: generate and apply a PLL scramble but do not allow myself to see more than two sides. Inspect those two sides then close eyes and solve (untimed). Cube should be fully solved afterwards, no further AUF required. Some of them are ridiculously easy of course, but for some it's quite a challenge to recognise the case, and recognise how to AUF to line it up for the alg, and then figure out how the alg will leave it and what AUF will be needed at the end.


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## MarcelP (Jun 3, 2015)

mark49152 said:


> Dude, you should be embarrassed by that one .



LOL, I know.. But I am about most of my solves.. ha ha ha..




mark49152 said:


> Changing subject, I've been doing PLL recognition practice this week and found it good fun. See what you think. What I do is this: generate and apply a PLL scramble but do not allow myself to see more than two sides. Inspect those two sides then close eyes and solve (untimed). Cube should be fully solved afterwards, no further AUF required. Some of them are ridiculously easy of course, but for some it's quite a challenge to recognise the case, and recognise how to AUF to line it up for the alg, and then figure out how the alg will leave it and what AUF will be needed at the end.



That's pretty cool practice. If you look at Feliks' solves he needs no AUF time but just looks at the cube before PLL does PLL and drops the cube.. I really should learn that. That would shave off 2 seconds of my global average easily. That is without a doubt my weakest point.


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## Logiqx (Jun 3, 2015)

mark49152 said:


> 2000 solves seems a long recovery from a break. Apart from that it's similar shape indeed. Have you estimated what potential time your trend is converging on?



I neglected to say that it was also the time when I was learning the remainder of OLL; 15/57 cases. The time off added about 1.5-2.0 seconds to my global average but I started learning the remaining OLLs as soon as I came back. Taken in isolation, I think the trend from 16K-18K looks reasonably healthy considering I was regaining my previous level of competency and integrating new OLL algs.

I've not done any precise estimations but 15 seconds seems doable long term, I have lots of obvious areas for improvement.



mark49152 said:


> Dude, you should be embarrassed by that one .



I didn't want to say it myself. 



mark49152 said:


> Changing subject, I've been doing PLL recognition practice this week and found it good fun.



That's one of the many areas that I have recognised needs improvement in my solves. It's automatic for some cases but I should go through every case methodically to ensure I know them all properly.


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## MarcelP (Jun 3, 2015)

Logiqx said:


> That's one of the many areas that I have recognised needs improvement in my solves. It's automatic for some cases but I should go through every case methodically to ensure I know them all properly.



And doing it CN makes it even a bit more challenging


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## mark49152 (Jun 3, 2015)

MarcelP said:


> If you look at Feliks' solves he needs no AUF time but just looks at the cube before PLL does PLL and drops the cube.. I really should learn that. That would shave off 2 seconds of my global average easily. That is without a doubt my weakest point.


The way I've started to learn this is by looking at certain stickers before the PLL that tell me the front colour afterwards. For example, for Ra, after pre-AUF I would look at the FUR sticker (and the front centre) and that would tell me what post-AUF to do. So no need to recognise after the alg. After a while it feels like the post-AUF becomes an integral, seamless part of each alg, with no delay at all.

For two-sided recognition I am learning two stickers per case, on opposite sides (where possible). It's harder than it sounds, to recognise these before pre-AUF.

Which stickers to look at depends on your algs of course.

Edit:-


Logiqx said:


> I neglected to say that it was also the time when I was learning the remainder of OLL; 15/57 cases.


I have to admit I sometimes "cheated" when learning new algs. If a case came up that I had just learned, and I got messed up or slowed down by the new alg, I would delete the time. The reason I started doing that is because I found that when under time pressure, rather than hesitate and try the new alg, I would often resort to two-look, and those new algs therefore weren't getting practiced. So I decided to take the time pressure off and allow myself to revert those solves to untimed practice solves whenever particular new cases came up.


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## MarcelP (Jun 5, 2015)

I have been doing my daily 50 timed solves and I feel it is going in a good direction. Last few Ao100's (weekly) where sub 20. Most of my Ao12 are low 19. I feel like sube 19 is very close now.

Ao5 after one warm up solve:


Spoiler



Time List:
1. 18.65 R2 D U2 F2 D' U2 L2 F2 U' R2 F2 B' R2 D' B' R' B L' B' D R 
2. 19.86 D' L B2 L B2 R2 D2 B2 R F2 U2 L' D L' B D' U L2 U2 R B' 
3. 18.05 F2 L U2 F2 R' D2 F2 R' B2 D2 B2 D' L2 B2 F D L B2 U L B2 
4. 23.65 R2 U F2 L2 B2 F2 R2 U' L2 R2 B2 R' B' D' B' F2 D' L2 U B' D' 
5. 17.75 F2 U R2 D' B2 D' R2 U2 B2 F' R' D2 L2 R2 D F' R2 D2 F' 

Cube: Congs design MeiYing


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## Logiqx (Jun 5, 2015)

I'll have a watch of your video later. I also did some recording today...

Best single=15.83 (solve 5)... PLL skip
Ao5=17.58 (solves 1 to 5)... new PB. 
Ao12=18.89 (solves 1 to 12)... nearly a PB








Spoiler



Scrambles and times:
1. 17.34 F R' L' F L' B2 U' R D' L2 D2 F B2 R2 B R2 B' R2 F2 U2 
2. 17.14 F D L2 D2 R2 B2 D' B2 R2 U B2 D2 L U' L' B' L' F2 U L R2 
3. 18.29 L2 D U R2 B2 U2 F2 D B2 U2 L' F U R2 F' D2 U' B U' L2 
4. 18.28 D U2 F2 D2 R2 F2 R2 U' B2 D' B2 F L' R2 F' U B2 D' F' 
5. 15.83 L2 F R2 F' D2 B2 F D2 B2 L2 R' D' B2 L D F U' R2 B U' F2 
6. 19.99 F2 D F2 D' R2 U L2 B2 D F2 L2 B' D2 L U' F' U2 L R2 U 
7. 20.63 U2 L2 B2 L2 D R2 U R2 B2 U F2 R' F D2 R U' R' F' L2 B U2 
8. 17.45 R2 F2 L2 B2 R2 D' L2 U F2 D U' B' L' B2 L2 F2 L2 R' B' D F' 
9. 20.99 L2 R2 U F2 U' R2 D2 F2 U R2 B2 R' D2 B' F L2 F' U' R B' R2 
10. 29.82 D' F' U2 B' R2 U2 B2 L2 F D2 F L2 R' F2 U' L2 R' B R2 B' R 
11. 18.97 D R2 F2 L2 B2 U2 F2 U F2 R2 B' L F R' F2 U' B F L U2 
12. 19.83 F R2 B2 L2 U' F2 D F2 D F2 L2 U B' R' U B D F2 L2 D F2


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## MarcelP (Jun 5, 2015)

Kkj


Logiqx said:


> I'll have a watch of your video later. I also did some recording today...
> 
> Best single=15.83 (solve 5)... PLL skip
> Ao5=17.58 (solves 1 to 5)... new PB.
> ...


Mike! That was really cool. And you did not even screw up after the 15. I do not think I have recorded an Ao12 sub 19. That will be my new goal in life  Awesome! Thanks for sharing.

Edit: what cube?


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## Logiqx (Jun 5, 2015)

MarcelP said:


> Kkj
> Mike! That was really cool. Edit: what cube?



Thanks. It is my HuaLong with Lubix in the core... possibly a little too much but it's still fast enough for me.


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## mark49152 (Jun 5, 2015)

I like your turning style, Mike. You start some of those crosses so laid back it's like you don't care about your time 

For the first few solves I thought you were a white cross solver, then you solved other colours later - are you fully CN?


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## MarcelP (Jun 6, 2015)

Logiqx said:


> Thanks. It is my HuaLong with Lubix in the core... possibly a little too much but it's still fast enough for me.


You can't go wrong with HuaLong 



mark49152 said:


> I like your turning style, Mike. You start some of those crosses so laid back it's like you don't care about your time



Yeah, I like it too. In fact I have watched the video twice allready to see if I can learn eanything. Your cross is indeed slow turning, but always finished within a good time. F2L is very smooth as in no pauses because of slow turning. Your OLL recognition is super fast and so is excecution. I know you are a man of statictiscs and a man of documenting. so..  do you have all your OLL's in one document? Not all my OLLs'are fast..


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## Logiqx (Jun 6, 2015)

mark49152 said:


> I like your turning style, Mike. You start some of those crosses so laid back it's like you don't care about your time
> 
> For the first few solves I thought you were a white cross solver, then you solved other colours later - are you fully CN?



Thanks Mark. I have a bias towards white / yellow but I am also able to solve with the other 4 cross colours. I have a quick glance at the cube to see if any centres have 2 or more connected cross edges then start evaluating other crosses. This recording happens to have a lot of white and yellow crosses but I usually find I get better averages if I consider colours other than white / yellow when a single edge is already connected. Once in a while, I get a super easy non-WY cross but for the most part dual colour neutrality would be fine IMHO.

The crosses look super slow to me and should probably be speeded up whilst still providing look ahead. I may use this video to assess my splits because I have never looked at them accurately.



MarcelP said:


> Yeah, I like it too. In fact I have watched the video twice allready to see if I can learn eanything. Your cross is indeed slow turning, but always finished within a good time. F2L is very smooth as in no pauses because of slow turning. Your OLL recognition is super fast and so is excecution. I know you are a man of statictiscs and a man of documenting. so..  do you have all your OLL's in one document? Not all my OLLs'are fast..



Cool. Nice to know the video is being enjoyed by you guys!

I'll dig out my OLL cheat sheet tonight and send you a link. I don't have my computer with me right now.


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## MarcelP (Jun 6, 2015)

Logiqx said:


> I have a quick glance at the cube to see if any centres have 2 or more connected cross edges then start evaluating other crosses. This recording happens to have a lot of white and yellow crosses but I usually find I get better averages if I consider colours other than white / yellow when a single edge is already connected. Once in a while, I get a super easy non-WY cross but for the most part dual colour neutrality would be fine IMHO.



That's exactly how I do it. I seem to find a good yellow cross more often than a white one. If I see an easy other color than I choose that. My fast singles are often none white/yellow. I do not know why. I feel like because of slower turning during these blue/green/orange or red crosses making my F2L smoother or something like that. I bet you are surfing today. Yesterday it was 30 degress Celcius in Holland.  So UK must be about the same..


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## Logiqx (Jun 6, 2015)

It was similarly warm here in the UK yesterday. That's why I kept wiping my hands on my trousers in the video. 

I was home a little later than expected today but I've done breakdowns from the video. I have calculated an Ao12 for each step; cross, F2L, OLL, PLL.

Ideal: 12.0% - 50.0% - 16.5% - 21.5%
Mine: 13.3% - 57.1% - 13.1% - 16.5%

The "ideal" values are from the "systematic progress" thread.

Looks like I need to improve my F2L.


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## Logiqx (Jun 11, 2015)

This thread has gone quiet again!

Past few days, I've been getting back up to speed on the 2x2 (untimed) as I haven't touched it since January and today I did a bit of OH solving on video.

The Ao50 was 37.54 (PB) but I didn't have enough time to carry on to an Ao100. Here's a handful of decent solves from the session - 32.40 mean of 3.






Even on these "good" solves, I'm often tracking pieces for OLLs / PLLs which aren't in muscle memory. My OH algs still need a lot of work but my TPS is getting faster, I think.


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## MarcelP (Jun 12, 2015)

Yeah quiet  I have been busy with everything but not cubing. LOL Very cool OH solves! You make it seem so easy... My times are 3 times slower


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## Logiqx (Jun 12, 2015)

mark49152 said:


> Changing subject, I've been doing PLL recognition practice this week and found it good fun. See what you think. What I do is this: generate and apply a PLL scramble but do not allow myself to see more than two sides. Inspect those two sides then close eyes and solve (untimed). Cube should be fully solved afterwards, no further AUF required. Some of them are ridiculously easy of course, but for some it's quite a challenge to recognise the case, and recognise how to AUF to line it up for the alg, and then figure out how the alg will leave it and what AUF will be needed at the end.



I've just spent a bit of time looking at which pieces do not move during PLL and thus helpful when predicting the AUF. It's nothing ground breaking but I noticed that you can use OLL shapes to remember which pieces will stay in position. The only cases where this doesn't apply are the edge 3-cycles (U's and G's) but they're easy anyway; corners stay in position for U's and the block stays in position for G's.

Maybe this simple concept is useful for visualising the pieces which won't move and thus predict the AUF? I've added them to my PLL cheat sheet to illustrate.


----------



## mark49152 (Jun 12, 2015)

Logiqx said:


> I've just spent a bit of time looking at which pieces do not move during PLL and thus helpful when predicting the AUF. It's nothing ground breaking but I noticed that you can use OLL shapes to remember which pieces will stay in position.


You still need to know whether your alg does a net turn of the U face though. For example, we know the V perm leaves the 2x2 block intact, but different algs start with it in different positions and leave it in different positions afterwards.

The method I use is based on sticker recognition. So I will look at two sides and recognise that it's an Ra perm. I also know from that which way to AUF to line up for my Ra perm alg. I also know that whichever sticker is then on the FUR position is the colour that will be in front when my alg completes. So I only care about that one sticker and don't even think about how the pieces move. The final U, U' or U2 has almost become muscle memory already.


----------



## Logiqx (Jun 12, 2015)

I just got my first sub-20 Ao100. Finally! 

I'll see what is on video... hopefully the PB single (13.21) and PB Ao12 (18.21).



Spoiler



Generated By csTimer on 2015-6-12
solves/total: 120/120

single
best: 13.21
worst: 27.94

mean of 3
current: 19.61 (σ = 3.69)
best: 16.79 (σ = 3.36)

avg of 5
current: 18.80 (σ = 2.20)
best: 17.70 (σ = 0.82)

avg of 12
current: 19.66 (σ = 2.22)
best: 18.21 (σ = 1.08)

avg of 50
current: 19.58 (σ = 1.90)
best: 19.13 (σ = 1.56)

avg of 100
current: 19.62 (σ = 1.94)
best: 19.55 (σ = 1.89)

Average: 19.74 (σ = 1.85)
Mean: 19.86


----------



## Logiqx (Jun 12, 2015)

mark49152 said:


> You still need to know whether your alg does a net turn of the U face though. For example, we know the V perm leaves the 2x2 block intact, but different algs start with it in different positions and leave it in different positions afterwards.
> 
> The method I use is based on sticker recognition. So I will look at two sides and recognise that it's an Ra perm. I also know from that which way to AUF to line up for my Ra perm alg. I also know that whichever sticker is then on the FUR position is the colour that will be in front when my alg completes. So I only care about that one sticker and don't even think about how the pieces move. The final U, U' or U2 has almost become muscle memory already.



That's basically what I do currently but I think it could be useful to know other stickers as well. For example, set up a T-perm then do U2 so that you can't see the eventual front sticker(s). Prior to the setup move in your solve you can make a mental note of the FU / FRU stickers relative to the front colour. You can then close your eyes and do setup (U2), T-Perm itself and know there is no need for a final AUF. You know where those stickers will be after the T-Perm and have a long time to figure out the AUF. It doesn't matter which two sides you use for PLL recognition because all sides have non-moving pieces, except for G-Perms.

I think your method requires the setup move before you can start thinking about the final AUF. That may be considered another mini-look?

Edit: This method should also work regardless of your algs. You just need to consider how your alg ends; e.g. my Js and Rs end with U'.


----------



## Logiqx (Jun 12, 2015)

MarcelP said:


> Mike! That was really cool. And you did not even screw up after the 15. I do not think I have recorded an Ao12 sub 19. That will be my new goal in life  Awesome! Thanks for sharing.



You better get practicing dude, I'm on the rampage!

18.21 on camera although it contains a dodgy AUF and adding a +2 makes it 18.39.






For comic reaction to PB single:


----------



## MarcelP (Jun 12, 2015)

Logiqx said:


> For comic reaction to PB single:
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C0Vq6zF9Ls0



LOL!! Freaking awesome!! If you noticed the PLL skip any sooner...  You are doing really great now. Your progress is not going to stop any time soon 

Today I had one of my best sessions in a very long time
I was doing low 18 average up to solve 30 and I slacked off from there..


Spoiler: Ao50



Generated By csTimer on 2015-6-12
solves/total: 50/50

single
best: 15.40
worst: 22.82

mean of 3
current: 17.56 (σ = 2.07)
best: 16.44 (σ = 1.01)

avg of 5
current: 18.83 (σ = 2.03)
best: 16.82 (σ = 0.52)

avg of 12
current: 19.45 (σ = 1.21)
best: 17.72 (σ = 1.71)

avg of 50
current: 18.89 (σ = 1.57)
best: 18.89 (σ = 1.57)

Average: 18.89 (σ = 1.57)
Mean: 18.91

Time List:
1. 16.55 R L2 U F' U' F2 B2 R' F B' L2 B2 R2 U2 R U2 R' D2 B2 R U2 
2. 17.42 U2 L2 U L2 F2 R2 U' F2 U' R2 U L' B' U' F2 D' B' R' F' R F2 
3. 15.40 L2 D2 U' B2 F2 L2 U R2 F2 R2 U' F' L D' F2 D L' B' L2 U' 
4. 16.50 L B2 L2 F2 U2 R B2 U2 L2 R' F2 B U' L' U' B' R D' R' D' B 
5. 19.01 B2 U' F2 R2 F2 D2 F2 R2 D' L2 F2 R' U2 B R' U F' L2 R2 D F' 
6. 19.91 R' L' U2 B2 R' F' U L' B' R2 U' L2 U R2 U2 L2 U' F2 U2 
7. 16.19 R F U2 R' D F2 B D2 L' U L2 D F2 B2 D F2 U2 R2 L2 U' 
8. 21.14 R F' R' U2 R L F2 D B' L2 D2 F2 L2 B' D2 R2 L2 F2 D 
9. 16.39 R U' F2 D' B2 U' B2 U2 R2 B2 F2 R2 F L D2 B2 F2 L B D' R2 
10. 16.69 F2 R2 U2 L U2 R F2 D2 U2 L F R D L' D2 B2 L D2 L' 
11. 22.10 R' D R F2 B' D B2 D B U2 L2 F B2 L2 D2 R2 F U2 F D 
12. 17.36 B2 R2 D F2 D2 B2 U B2 U2 B2 U2 L' D B' F' D B D U B' L 
13. 18.66 D' L2 B L2 F2 L2 D2 F' U2 B' L2 R2 D L D F' L' U B2 L R2 
14. 17.13 D2 B U2 F R2 U2 R2 D2 F D2 R2 D L' R U' F U' L U B' R 
15. 19.12 D' B2 D L2 F2 L2 R2 U' F2 D2 U' B' R D L2 U F L' B2 U' F 
16. 19.19 D2 U2 F U2 L2 D2 B2 L2 F2 L2 F U R' D' F' R2 D U L' F' R2 
17. 18.23 D' L2 F2 D' F2 D' R2 D' B2 F2 L2 F U' F L' D R' F2 D B2 L' 
18. 19.89 U B' R2 B2 L2 D2 L2 D2 F2 U2 F' R2 D' F L2 D2 L B R' F' 
19. 17.43 L B2 L2 B L2 D2 U2 F R2 B2 U2 B2 D B' U' R D' F2 U' L' B2 
20. 19.16 L2 R2 U' B2 U' R2 F2 R2 D2 B2 U2 F D' L2 B' R' D2 L B2 U R' 
21. 21.09 F2 R2 U' R2 B2 U2 F2 U2 L2 U L' F2 L2 R' F' D2 U2 F2 D R2 
22. 16.16 R' L2 U F2 U B2 D U B2 F2 L2 R D2 B' R D2 R F U' R' 
23. 17.36 R2 B2 R2 F2 D B2 R2 U2 R2 U F2 L' B L D' U' R B D' R U 
24. 20.71 L' B2 L' U2 L2 F2 R' D2 U2 B2 D2 B' U L' U' L2 F2 U R U 
25. 17.60 B U2 L' U F2 D2 R F' L' B2 U2 R2 D2 B' L2 B2 U2 R2 D2 
26. 17.74 B2 L' U2 B2 R2 U2 F2 R' F2 R2 F2 U' R B D' B U2 R' D U' R2 
27. 21.86 L D2 F2 U2 B2 L2 F2 R2 D L2 U2 F2 B' L U2 F L' U B2 D2 F 
28. 20.08 B2 R U' F U2 B' L B' D2 R B2 R' D2 R2 L' B2 D2 R F2 U 
29. 18.80 U' B' U2 R2 U2 F2 U2 R2 B' D2 U2 L B' L' F2 D2 U B' L D 
30. 19.07 B2 U2 B2 R2 U2 R2 F' R2 B' U2 B' D L B2 U R' F U L2 F2 D' 
31. 20.88 U D2 L F2 U2 L' R' F2 D2 B2 D R2 D' B L' R U L' D' 
32. 19.76 R2 B' L' D' F L2 F' R2 L' B2 L2 F D2 B D2 L2 B' R2 B' L2 
33. 19.86 R2 D' L2 D R2 F2 D' F2 D L2 U L' B D' B R U' R' F' D2 
34. 22.82 U' L2 U' R2 B2 D' R2 U L2 U2 F2 R' B2 F' L' R U' B R' B L' 
35. 21.59 L' U2 B2 L R2 F2 R B2 U2 B2 F2 U B2 L F R' U' B' F2 U' 
36. 18.94 F2 R2 D2 U2 L U2 R B2 L' R F' R' U F L2 B D' L' U' R' 
37. 18.86 U L2 D2 B L' F' R' U F L2 B' R2 L2 F U2 R2 B2 R2 B 
38. 16.35 F B2 L2 D L2 D' F2 L2 B2 U2 F2 D2 B' R F2 L' B2 F U R' F2 
39. 20.05 U' B2 F2 U L2 U2 L2 U F2 U' F2 R' F' D B' F' D L' F2 D U 
40. 20.34 U F' B' R' B R2 L2 F' U' L2 B2 D' L2 F2 B2 U2 R2 D' R2 F' 
41. 19.62 B D2 F2 D' R2 U' R2 F2 U B2 U' F L' F2 L2 R' D2 L' B 
42. 18.50 R2 U2 F' B2 D2 F' R D' L' F2 R2 D2 L2 F R2 F2 D2 B2 U2 D2 
43. 20.59 F2 R' L2 F' U B2 D' F' D L F2 B2 L B2 U2 F2 R' U2 R' F2 
44. 18.96 U' L2 D2 F D2 F L2 B' F2 D L U2 L2 U' R2 D2 B2 
45. 19.93 R D2 R2 B F2 U2 B2 F U2 R2 U2 R2 U' L D B' U2 R' D' F' L 
46. 20.05 L' D R2 U L2 U' B2 L2 R2 D' U2 B L R2 D B2 U2 L' R D' 
47. 21.80 D' L2 F2 U' F2 U' B2 U L2 R2 U L' D' B' F D B' F' D2 L' F 
48. 16.26 R D' F2 R2 D B2 U2 L2 U F2 D F' D' U B' U2 L D L F 
49. 19.95 U2 B2 D' L2 D' U' B2 D L2 B' U R2 B' F2 L D' R' F' D2 
50. 16.48 R' D2 U2 B' L2 R2 B' L2 F' U2 F' U2 L' F' R D U2 R F2 D2 U


----------



## Logiqx (Jun 12, 2015)

MarcelP said:


> Today I had one of my best sessions in a very long time
> I was doing low 18 average up to solve 30 and I slacked off from there..



Great to see you returning to form.


----------



## mark49152 (Jun 12, 2015)

Logiqx said:


> I think your method requires the setup move before you can start thinking about the final AUF. That may be considered another mini-look?


It doesn't require the setup move, it just requires that you can identify which sticker to look at to predict front colour, regardless of which two sides you see. You're correct that this means learning more than one sticker though. I started learning stickers for opposite sides, but in most cases I forgot them because doing a mini-look after the setup move doesn't really cause a pause anyway. You're not thinking what to do next, which is what usually causes pauses; you already know what alg you are going to execute and are just spotting a colour fly past.


----------



## MarcelP (Jun 13, 2015)

Logiqx said:


> Great to see you returning to form.



No, this was clearly a fluke  I did 30 solves this morning with a 20.04 average.. Not bad, but want to do sub 19 averages all the time now.. LOL This good average from yesterday was because I tried to adopt your style. Plan cross fully, and then instead of tracking a corner (from inspection) I solve cross slow and look ahead for first pair. Then do complete F2L like you do.. Match pair fairly quick, but before slotting slow down and look for next pair. This is completely different from what I do. But it seemed to work yesterday. What I normally do is when I spot a pair, I completely solve it without looking at the pair but instead searching for next pair. This method is ofcourse the best when your name is Feliks or Mats. I think my problem is that I make too many mistakes (like one every 4 pairings) which causes me loosing time to fix that and mess up looking for the next pair.


----------



## Logiqx (Jun 13, 2015)

MarcelP said:


> No, this was clearly a fluke  I did 30 solves this morning with a 20.04 average.. Not bad, but want to do sub 19 averages all the time now.. LOL This good average from yesterday was because I tried to adopt your style. Plan cross fully, and then instead of tracking a corner (from inspection) I solve cross slow and look ahead for first pair. Then do complete F2L like you do.. Match pair fairly quick, but before slotting slow down and look for next pair. This is completely different from what I do. But it seemed to work yesterday. What I normally do is when I spot a pair, I completely solve it without looking at the pair but instead searching for next pair. This method is ofcourse the best when your name is Feliks or Mats. I think my problem is that I make too many mistakes (like one every 4 pairings) which causes me loosing time to fix that and mess up looking for the next pair.



Interesting to hear you got a decent average by adopting my style. Bear in mind you only see my good solves on video and I have my fair share of poor solves as well. 

I'm looking at my breakdown for yesterday...

12+: 1
14+: 0
16+: 27
18+: 46
20+: 28
22+: 8
24+: 8
26+: 2

If you watched the last Ao12 video there is some involuntary language after one of my sub-20's... ooops. I guess it's an indication of what times feel good / bad to me nowadays!

I've just completed an OH Ao100 (second one ever) but they are super tiring for my hand. Hopefully it will have developed a bit of strength / endurance though!


----------



## MarcelP (Jun 14, 2015)

Logiqx said:


> I've just completed an OH Ao100 (second one ever) but they are super tiring for my hand.



My hands hurt thinking of an Ao100 LOL. I can do no more than 5 tops.. 

Just did a nice session with QiYi Thunderclap. Nice cube. Not going to be my main though


Spoiler: Ao5 17.61



1. 17.12 B D2 B2 L2 R B2 L' U2 L' U2 F2 D2 F' U' L D2 U2 R2 U2 
2. 23.87 2+ F' U2 B' U2 B R2 F' R2 F' D2 F U L' D' R2 F' U2 F2 R D U' 
3. 17.37 B2 D F2 R2 U' F2 L2 R2 F2 R' U' B' D' U' R' D' B2 F' L2 
4. 16.60 D2 F R2 B' R2 F U2 B U2 B' D2 U F D2 L B' R2 F D' U F2 
5. 18.34 F2 U' L2 D' R2 B2 D2 B2 R2 D' F2 R' D B F' R' F' L' R F R'


----------



## Logiqx (Jun 14, 2015)

MarcelP said:


> Just did a nice session with QiYi Thunderclap. Nice cube. Not going to be my main though



It seems like most of the new cubes are nice nowadays. You seem to enjoy trying them all as well. 

Having dusted off my 2x2 recently, I decided to do a timed session this afternoon. Here are a few typical solves (6.x seconds) but ending with my first ever lol scramble.

It's a shame I didn't predict the OLL+PBL skip. I was being lazy and wasn't trying to predict OLL for most of my solves.


----------



## MarcelP (Jun 18, 2015)

Hi Guys,

Busy week.. Cool 2X2 solves Mike. I average 10 seconds no matter how much I practice. I just do not enjoy it as much as 3x3. Today I had a full step 11 seconds solve.

L D2 R2 U2 L D2 R B2 L' D2 R' D F' L2 F2 L' B R' D2

x //inspection
R' D // Blue X-Cross (2)
U' R U2 R' U R U R' // 2nd (8)
y U2 R U' R' U R' U' R // 3rd (9)
U2 F' U' F // 4th (4)
R U R' U R U2 R' //OLL (Sune) (7)
R2 U' R' U' R U R U R U' R // PLL (Ua) (10)
*11.67* = 3.4 tps

Jay!


----------



## Logiqx (Jun 19, 2015)

Yeah. I've been pretty busy as well and hardly done any cubing. I didn't help myself by doing the LL sub-step hierarchy in my spare time the last couple of days.

https://www.speedsolving.com/forum/...ast-Layer-Sub-Steps-Subsets-of-OLLCP-and-ZBLL

Cool solve you had Marcel... 11.67 with 2 move x-cross, easy F2L and the perfect LL combo!

New topic...

I've never really had any interest in learning Pyra but I ordered a MoYu this week to qualify an Amazon order for free shipping.

It arrived today and I'm really impressed by how the MoYu feels. I've deliberately avoided tutorials but I fluked a solve within 10 minutes and had a usable method in around 30 minutes. I was pretty surprised but there was a bit of luck involved... I just solved a layer using intuition then tried things like Sune and sexy-sledge to see how they affect the LL edges. I'm currently using 4 algs to solve the LL.

I decided to time myself after an hour or so of practice and got an Ao12 of 28.57. I'll check out some tutorials later this week to see what other methods exist.

I think I might actually enjoy this puzzle.


----------



## Logiqx (Jun 19, 2015)

Having had another play the Pyra is feeling a lot like 2x2 to me. Puzzle difficulty, move count and the frequency of lucky solves all seem comparable.

According to Drew Brads it should be possible to get to sub-10, even 5-7 seconds after a couple of hundred solves:

@1:30... Just need to do a couple of hundred solves to get to 5-7 seconds

It may take me a little longer than that but I'm starting to get used to solving it now.



Spoiler



Generated By csTimer on 2015-6-19
solves/total: 50/50

single
best: 5.96
worst: 1:01.57

mean of 3
current: 23.36 (σ = 3.14)
best: 13.05 (σ = 6.88)

avg of 5
current: 21.63 (σ = 0.33)
best: 16.47 (σ = 3.10)

avg of 12
current: 20.61 (σ = 3.51)
best: 18.62 (σ = 6.25)

avg of 50
current: 21.87 (σ = 5.83)
best: 21.87 (σ = 5.83)

Average: 21.87 (σ = 5.83)
Mean: 23.00

Time List:
1. 37.14 U L R' B' L B' U B' l r' b u' 
2. 9.93 U L R' B' R B L' U' l' b u' 
3. 23.41 U' R U' R U' L B' R l' r b' u 
4. 15.11 U B' U' B' R' B' U' B' l' b' u' 
5. 1:01.43 U B L' B U' B' L' R' l' r b u' 
6. 28.42 R' U L' R U' L R L' l' r b' u' 
7. 30.18 U R' L' B U L R' B U r' b' 
8. 23.18 U' B' R U' L' B' U' L l' r' b' u' 
9. 21.27 B' R U B' R' L' B R' l r' b' 
10. 15.28 R B' L U' L' U L B' l r' b 
11. 1:01.57 L B' U' R' U R' L' U' R' l r' b u 
12. 20.65 B R' L' B' R L R' B l u' 
13. 21.45 U' L' R' U' B L' R' L' l' r b' u' 
14. 23.39 U' R' B' L' B L R' U' l' b' u' 
15. 14.61 U' B' U B U B' U' B b u 
16. 22.13 R' B R L U' L R' B l' r u 
17. 26.11 L' R' B U L B' L' U' r' b u' 
18. 17.99 R B U' R' B' R' U' B r u' 
19. 26.46 R' L U' R' B R L' U' l' r b u 
20. 19.77 L' B R' U L' U' L' R' l b' u 
21. 24.67 U B L' U B L R' B l b' u 
22. 18.99 B' L' R B L U B U' l b' 
23. 39.95 R U B R' B' U L R l r u 
24. 16.15 R U L R L B' L R' r' u' 
25. 9.10 U' B U' R' B R L R B r' b' u' 
26. 16.66 R L' U R' B' L U' L r' u' 
27. 18.87 R B L' R B' L B' L l b u 
28. 32.34 U R' B L R' L' U B U l' b' u 
29. 16.45 L R U R' U L' U R' l r b' 
30. 16.43 U L R' L' R L R L r b u' 
31. 22.21 U' B L R L B U L r b u' 
32. 17.71 U R L' U R' B' U B' l' b u' 
33. 35.20 R' B' L' R' U L' U B' l' r b' u' 
34. 22.98 U L R B' L' U L R' B' l' b u 
35. 5.96 U' R U' L' U R' U' L' r' u' 
36. 13.50 L' U' R B' L R B' U' r' b 
37. 19.69 L U' L' U B' R U' B R' b' 
38. 35.55 L' U B L U L' R U l' r u' 
39. 16.23 B' U L' U R B R' U' r b u' 
40. 16.64 R' B' U L R L' R U l' r' b 
41. 24.00 U' B U R' B L' B R l r u' 
42. 15.22 L R' L B R L U' B l 
43. 19.66 U' R' U' R B' U' R B U' r b' 
44. 25.47 U B' R' B L U' R' B' R l b' u 
45. 23.78 U B U B' U' B R' U B r' b' u 
46. 15.45 L' B U' R' B U' B L' l r u' 
47. 21.78 U B L B R' U R' L l b u' 
48. 26.98 B U' B L B' U L R r b' u 
49. 21.86 U R L R B' R U L' B' l b' u' 
50. 21.25 U L R' U R L R L' B r' b'


----------



## MarcelP (Jun 19, 2015)

Wow.. nice times. I use also a beginner method layer by layer. My official best is 8 seconds. But I average around 25 - 30 I think. I never practice pyre untill one day before a competition LOL



Spoiler: Nice solve on red from today



12.27 R U' F2 D' R2 U F2 U2 B2 R2 U' B' D2 R' F2 D U2 B' R 
y x' y // inspection
F U' R' F R //CROSS (5)
R U' R' U2 L' U' L //1ST (7)
U2 R U' R' //2ND (4)
y U R U2 R' U2 R U2 R' U R U' R' //3RD (13)
U' R' U R U y R U R' U R U' R' //4TH (13)
U R U B' U' R' U R B R' U // OLL (11)
53 moves in 12.27 = 4.3 TPS

Cube: MeiYing


----------



## cubizh (Jun 19, 2015)

Logiqx said:


> According to Drew Brads it should be possible to get to sub-10, even 5-7 seconds after a couple of hundred solves:
> 
> ... Just need to do a couple of hundred solves to get to 5-7 seconds
> 
> It may take me a little longer than that but I'm starting to get used to solving it now.


Since this is something that appear very frequently in help videos and is something that is very irritating/frustrating for most of the rest of the world, I just want to share how you should understand those kinds of phrases.

When people say


> It should only take you X number of solves to achieve sub-Y


you should read


> It only took *me* X number of solves to achieve sub-Y


----------



## Logiqx (Jun 19, 2015)

MarcelP said:


> I use also a beginner method layer by layer.



I usually start with a corner + edge pair then extend to a V with block building. I think it is quite an efficient way to solve the first layer... when I get it right.

Nice 3x3 solve btw.



cubizh said:


> Since this is something that appear very frequently in help videos and is something that is very irritating/frustrating for most of the rest of the world, I just want to share how you should understand those kinds of phrases.



I didn't take it literally, I just thought it was kind of amusing. It may be true for someone who is sub-10 on the 3x3 but for anyone with slower recognition and TPS it isn't going to happen so soon.


----------



## mark49152 (Jun 20, 2015)

I bought a Pyraminx in the very first box of puzzles I had shipped from China, when I started out cubing. I don't think I ever solved it, even once, and haven't picked it up since! It remains languishing unloved at the bottom of one of my cube crates (along with the Square-1).


----------



## MarcelP (Jun 20, 2015)

mark49152 said:


> I bought a Pyraminx in the very first box of puzzles I had shipped from China, when I started out cubing. I don't think I ever solved it, even once, and haven't picked it up since! It remains languishing unloved at the bottom of one of my cube crates (along with the Square-1).



LOL.. I have one Square-1 too. And I have scrambled it and never managed to solve it again. One of the things on my bucket list.  I have a few Pyraminxes. The last one a Moyu. And I really like that one. I just never practiced enough. But this post of Mike got me thinking again about Pyra and 2X2. So last night I have watched a few Pyra video's and I think I am going to learn an intermediate method. I never seemed to 'get' Keyhole method. That seems a fun thing to learn. Even if it is not faster than my LBL method.


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## Logiqx (Jun 20, 2015)

mark49152 said:


> I bought a Pyraminx in the very first box of puzzles I had shipped from China, when I started out cubing. I don't think I ever solved it, even once, and haven't picked it up since! It remains languishing unloved at the bottom of one of my cube crates (along with the Square-1).



You might find it fun if you give it a go Mark. Figuring it out yourself is also quite nice.

I don't own a Square-1 but I have got a Skewb which has sat in my draw since I got it at Christmas.

I'll continue with the Pyra for a while then once I'm happy with my times, I might turn my attention to the Skewb.


----------



## Logiqx (Jun 20, 2015)

MarcelP said:


> I have a few Pyraminxes. The last one a Moyu. And I really like that one. I just never practiced enough. But this post of Mike got me thinking again about Pyra and 2X2. So last night I have watched a few Pyra video's and I think I am going to learn an intermediate method. I never seemed to 'get' Keyhole method. That seems a fun thing to learn. Even if it is not faster than my LBL method.



Have you watched the "How to Get Faster" video by Drew? On the basis of that, I decided not to learn keyhole for now and just get faster with LBL.

Marcel... here are my algs should you be interested.
Mark... ignore them if you ever plan to have a go at solving it yourself. 

I figured these out for myself on Friday. I think they are pretty decent for speed solving based on this thread, although I know some cases can be solved in 2 less moves:

https://www.speedsolving.com/forum/...x-discussion&p=1086489&viewfull=1#post1086489



Spoiler



I sometimes find that having chosen a D colour and starting my block building, I accidentally solve a V on the front so I rotate and carry on with it on D. 

I think it should also be possible to influence the last layer whilst inserting the final edge of the first layer. I don't need anything fancy like that for a little while mind you.

Flip DF in place: (R' L' R L') (R U' R')

Flip FL + FR in place: (R' L R L') (U L' U' L)
Flip FL + FR and cycle edges counter-clockwise: (R' L R L') (U' L' U L) - i.e. sledge-hammer bad sticker first
Flip FL + FR and cycle edges clockwise: (L R' L' R) (U R U' R') - i.e. sledge-hammer bad sticker first

Cycle edges counter-clockwise: (R U R') U (R U R') - i.e use U
Cycle edges clockwise: (R U' R') U' (R U' R') - i.e. use U'


LL Probabilities... I think!

2-flip - 1/4
CCW cycle with 2-flip - 1/4
CW cycle with 2-flip - 1/4

CCW cycle - 1/12
CW cycle - 1/12
Solved - 1/12


----------



## mark49152 (Jun 20, 2015)

Logiqx said:


> You might find it fun if you give it a go Mark. Figuring it out yourself is also quite nice.


I did have one when I was a kid in the 80s and figured it out then. It was my favourite puzzle, although I remember thinking the tips were pointless. My problem is that I don't have enough time so tend to always spend it on the puzzles I like best. Pyra and Square1 share that crate with a bunch of old friends like helicopters, Mega, rex, gears, etc.

The only puzzles other than NxN that I've spent serious time on are cuboids and shapemods. I have a range of different cuboids, some of which I am still trying to figure out on my own, like the 3x4x5. I like that there's a lot of commonality between them, so for each new puzzle you already know 80% of what you need and can get into it quickly. My favourite shapemod is the 4x4 Fisher, which can be solved by the usual 4x4 stuff plus supercube centres but takes more thought and care. Lots of fun.


----------



## Logiqx (Jun 20, 2015)

mark49152 said:


> I did have one when I was a kid in the 80s and figured it out then. It was my favourite puzzle, although I remember thinking the tips were pointless. My problem is that I don't have enough time so tend to always spend it on the puzzles I like best. Pyra and Square1 share that crate with a bunch of old friends like helicopters, Mega, rex, gears, etc.
> 
> The only puzzles other than NxN that I've spent serious time on are cuboids and shapemods. I have a range of different cuboids, some of which I am still trying to figure out on my own, like the 3x4x5. I like that there's a lot of commonality between them, so for each new puzzle you already know 80% of what you need and can get into it quickly. My favourite shapemod is the 4x4 Fisher, which can be solved by the usual 4x4 stuff plus supercube centres but takes more thought and care. Lots of fun.



Yes. The only purpose of the tips is aesthetics. I've never tried a super cube but I do remember them being quite prevalent in the 80's... novelty factor.

At some time I must look at the clock again as I have one from 80's in my cupboard. I don't remember how I solved it back then... I kind of wish I'd written it down. Maybe I thought I wouldn't forget it but 16 years later.... I've long forgotten how I solved it. I don't like the feel of the clock compared to twisty puzzles... it is pretty noisy as well.

Pyra update... unlimited inspection time. About 3 seconds faster than yesterday but the exponential curve is starting to show itself!



Spoiler



Generated By csTimer on 2015-6-20
solves/total: 50/50

single
best: 10.59
worst: 30.15

mean of 3
current: 22.67 (σ = 6.51)
best: 13.36 (σ = 2.97)

avg of 5
current: 18.85 (σ = 0.72)
best: 14.18 (σ = 2.01)

avg of 12
current: 16.72 (σ = 3.54)
best: 15.58 (σ = 3.06)

avg of 50
current: 18.20 (σ = 3.07)
best: 18.20 (σ = 3.07)

Average: 18.20 (σ = 3.07)
Mean: 18.37

Time List:
1. 21.69 R B U L' R B U' B' l r b' 
2. 24.30 B' U' L R B U B L' r' b' u' 
3. 21.37 U B U L U B' R' U l' r u' 
4. 25.95 L B' U' R' B R' U' B l' r' b' u' 
5. 16.77 R' B' L' R' U' L R' U' l r' b u 
6. 19.26 U L U L U' L' R U l r' b' u 
7. 27.56 U' B U R' U B' L B r' u 
8. 15.30 L' R B L U' R' L R B l r' b' u 
9. 19.22 L' U' L' U B' L U B' l' b u 
10. 17.64 R U' R B U B L' B l r' b' u' 
11. 26.99 U' B' L U' B' R' U L l' r' b u 
12. 16.38 L R L' B' R U R' U' r' b' u' 
13. 19.08 U R U' R' U' R B' L' B l b' u' 
14. 14.00 L' R' B U R L R U r b' u 
15. 21.29 R B' L' R' U' L U' R l' r b' u' 
16. 18.12 L' R B' L B R U L l r b' u 
17. 19.68 U B U' R B' U R' B R l' r b' u' 
18. 19.40 R L' U L B L U L' l b' u 
19. 14.86 B L' B R U' B R U l' r' b 
20. 18.61 R' B' L' R' L' U' R B' l r 
21. 20.04 U' B' L U' R' L B L' l' r' b' u 
22. 14.07 U B' U L' B' U' L' B' U' l' u 
23. 16.98 L' U B' R' B U L' R' r' 
24. 16.21 U' B' U R' B' U' B L r' b' u 
25. 17.32 U R' U' R' B' U B L r' b 
26. 12.18 L B R B' U' R U B l' r' u 
27. 19.90 L' U B R' U R' U' B l' r b 
28. 18.45 R' U' B L' R' U B R' l r b' u' 
29. 11.70 U L R B' R' L R' L l r' b' 
30. 22.95 U B' L' R L U L R' B' b' 
31. 15.85 U R' B' L U L R' B l' r' u 
32. 20.54 B R B' R L B' R' L l' b' u 
33. 16.76 R' L U' R U R' B' L U l r b 
34. 20.50 U R' B U' L R U B R' l b u' 
35. 19.83 U B L' R L U' R L' l' r b' u 
36. 20.51 U R' L' B' R B' R U' l b u' 
37. 12.99 U L' B' R U' B' L B' l' r b' u' 
38. 16.49 U L' R' B L' B' R' B' l' r' b' u 
39. 10.59 U L B' R' U' L U B' r' b u 
40. 17.38 U L U R' L' B' R L' l' r b 
41. 13.05 U R' B' L R' L R' B L' l' r' 
42. 18.32 L' R U' L U' B' L B l' r b' u' 
43. 21.27 U' L U R' B' R U B' L l' r b u' 
44. 11.43 U B' R L B' L' U B' r' u' 
45. 11.15 U B R' L B' L B' U' l 
46. 18.05 U B R' L B U' B' L r b u 
47. 18.69 U L U' R L B R L R l' r b' u 
48. 18.23 U B L' R U B' U R' U l' r u 
49. 19.65 U B' R' U R L B' U l' r' b u 
50. 30.15 L R' L' B' L B' U' L' l r b' u'



Edit: That session was so this morning, lol.



Spoiler



Generated By csTimer on 2015-6-20
solves/total: 107/107

single
best: 5.39
worst: 36.16

mean of 3
current: 17.09 (σ = 3.85)
best: 10.06 (σ = 4.07)

avg of 5
current: 17.81 (σ = 1.66)
best: 12.38 (σ = 0.48)

avg of 12
current: 16.49 (σ = 2.60)
best: 14.31 (σ = 1.81)

avg of 50
current: 16.10 (σ = 3.10)
best: 16.09 (σ = 3.24)

avg of 100
current: 16.58 (σ = 3.29)
best: 16.58 (σ = 3.29)

Average: 16.76 (σ = 3.20)
Mean: 16.99

Time List:
1. 17.39 B' U B R U' L' R U' L' l' r' u 
2. 23.18 L R' L' R B L' U R l r' b u' 
3. 15.84 L' B L B' L' B U' B l r 
4. 24.79 U' L R B' R U R B' b' u 
5. 18.36 R' L R' B' R U R B r u' 
6. 17.99 U L U L R U' L R U l r b' u' 
7. 17.07 B' U' L B R' L R U l r' b 
8. 31.34 U L R B' L' U' B' U R' l' b' u' 
9. 12.99 B U B L U' B L' U l' r b 
10. 18.52 L' B L' U R' B L B' l b' u 
11. 23.11 U R L' R L' U' L R' l' b u' 
12. 15.32 U L U B U' R L' U l' r b' u' 
13. 20.72 L U' B' R L B R' B l' b' u 
14. 14.22 U' B L U B' L' R U' l r' b' 
15. 14.07 U L' R' U' L' R' L' U R' b' 
16. 18.24 U' L' R L U B' U L b 
17. 19.40 L' B' U L' U' R' L' U' r' u 
18. 17.05 U R' L' U' B L' R' B' L l' r u' 
19. 15.52 U L U B' R' L U B' l' r b 
20. 21.32 U B' R' L' R U B' L r' b u' 
21. 20.49 U' R B' U' L' B U R b' 
22. 16.93 B U R' L B L' U' L' l r b 
23. 12.34 B' U' B L R' L R U l' 
24. 36.16 U' R B' L U' B' L B' L' l' r' b 
25. 14.43 L R' B L' B L' R B r' b 
26. 14.51 U L R' U B R U' B' l r u' 
27. 11.38 R L R' B L' R L B r u' 
28. 22.05 R U R' U B U L R l 
29. 15.95 R U R U B L' R' B' r' b' 
30. 17.16 U L' U' L' U L' B' U' l b u' 
31. 34.17 L' R' U' R L R B' U r 
32. 9.97 R' U' L U' R' U' L' U r b' 
33. 15.27 R U L B' L' R' L' R' r' b' u 
34. 17.21 R U R' B U R' B U' l' r' u' 
35. 15.95 B' L' B U L' B R' L' r u' 
36. 17.44 B L' R U L' U' B' L l r b' u' 
37. 15.52 U B' R' B' U L B' L l r b' u 
38. 23.43 U L U L R U L B' U' L l b' u 
39. 7.35 L R L' B U B' R B' b' 
40. 12.16 U' L' U L' B U L' B' R l' b 
41. 18.54 U L' R' U' R' L' R B l' r' u' 
42. 12.27 U B L' B' L R' L R l u 
43. 14.01 R' L' U' R L' U R' U' l' u' 
44. 16.25 B' L' R U' L U' R U' l' u 
45. 14.94 L R B' L B' L R B' u' 
46. 23.42 R' L U R' U' B U B r b u' 
47. 12.02 L R' B' R' L' R B L' l' b' u' 
48. 13.64 U' L' U' B L' B U' L' B l b' u 
49. 15.64 U' L B U' B' U' L B l' 
50. 21.51 L R L U L' B R L' l' r b 
51. 14.70 R L U' B' R L B' L l' b u 
52. 17.04 U' L' R' L' B R U B l' b' u 
53. 15.09 U L U B' L R' U L' l r' b' u' 
54. 22.34 U R B U B' L U L b u 
55. 15.31 U L B L' U L' B L U l' r b u 
56. 18.13 U L U B' U L U' R U' 
57. 23.34 B U R B L' R' B L b' 
58. 21.05 L U' R U' B R U' B r' b u' 
59. 18.70 B L' U' R B R U B' l u 
60. 14.44 U' L B R' U' L B' R l r' b u' 
61. 14.41 U L B' L' R U R' L l r b' u 
62. 16.91 U' L' B' L U' B R U' l r b' u' 
63. 19.69 L' U B' R L B' U R l b' u' 
64. 17.55 U R' U L R' U' R L B l r' b' u 
65. 16.41 R L U' R U' R B U' b u' 
66. 9.38 L U L B U B L R l u 
67. 21.20 U' L U' B L' U L' B l r u' 
68. 17.68 L' U' L R' U B R' L l b' u' 
69. 22.83 U' B' U' L B U B' R' l b 
70. 16.34 U R U B' L' U' B U B r u 
71. 15.79 U' R' L' R L' B R' L' l' b u 
72. 17.21 U L R' B' U' R' U R L l b' 
73. 13.43 U R U R U L' R U L' l' r b' u 
74. 12.36 L' B' R L' B' L' U' R l' b u 
75. 15.13 U' R' L' R' L B U' L' l r' u' 
76. 5.39 R' B' U L B' U' R L' l u' 
77. 12.87 U B L' U' B' R' L B' b' u' 
78. 11.91 R' L' U L' U' R' L' R' l r b' u 
79. 13.03 B' R B R B' L B' R B' l r' u 
80. 16.02 U L' B L R' B' L' R l r b 
81. 21.81 U B' R L B' R' U' B L' r' b' u 
82. 15.36 L B U R L U' L U R' l r u 
83. 20.24 U R B' U' B' R L' U' B l r' b' u 
84. 15.89 U B L R B U L' R' r' b 
85. 15.71 L R' U' B' L R' B U' l' r b' u 
86. 8.20 R B L U L' B' U R l' r' 
87. 28.02 R' L B' R L' B R' L l u 
88. 10.87 U L' B' R U' R' L B' l' r 
89. 19.70 B' U' B L' B U L U' r b' u' 
90. 18.06 U' L R' U R L U B' r b' 
91. 22.78 U' R' U' B' R U B' R' l' b u' 
92. 12.43 U L R L B R' U' L' B r' b u 
93. 12.40 R L' U' L B' U R' B' 
94. 16.50 U R L' U B' L B L' b' u 
95. 7.47 L' R U R L R U' B l' b 
96. 21.09 R L' R L' U' R B' R l' r u 
97. 15.43 U' R B' L' U' L R L' l b' u' 
98. 15.84 U' B L' R' L' B' U' L l r' u' 
99. 20.04 U L R B L' U B U' l b' u' 
100. 13.50 L R L B' L R' B' U' l u' 
101. 12.11 U L R L U B' U L' r' b' u 
102. 14.57 U L U' L' R' B U R l 
103. 18.25 U L' U' L U' L' R' B' R' l' r b' 
104. 15.97 U L' U B' L' U' B' U' l' r 
105. 19.42 U' R L' U' L B R' L R' l' 
106. 19.20 L U' B U' L' R' B U l b' 
107. 12.65 U R' U R B' L' R L l r b' u


----------



## Logiqx (Jun 20, 2015)

Bugger... I meant to do various tasks this afternoon but I couldn't put down the Pyraminx.

Never mind. Progress has been good, I think...


----------



## MarcelP (Jun 20, 2015)

Logiqx said:


> Have you watched the "How to Get Faster" video by Drew? On the basis of that, I decided not to learn keyhole for now and just get faster with LBL.
> 
> Marcel... here are my algs should you be interested.



Thanks, they are the same as I use.



mark49152 said:


> Pyra and Square1 share that crate with a bunch of old friends like helicopters, Mega, rex, gears, etc.



I solve Megaminx occaisionally. Just to relax. It takes half an hour or so because I do not know how to do LL (alg wise) so I do it with lot's of trail and error.



Logiqx said:


> Pyra update... unlimited inspection time. About 3 seconds faster than yesterday but the exponential curve is starting to show itself!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Wow, you have made quick progress. I have not yet acchieved these results  Good job. I can see you become better than average with this event. Do you know that Sneakelyfox also is very good at Pyra. She made podium on her first (and only) competition.


----------



## Logiqx (Jun 20, 2015)

MarcelP said:


> I solve Megaminx occasionally. Just to relax. It takes half an hour or so because I do not know how to do LL (alg wise) so I do it with lot's of trail and error.
> 
> Wow, you have made quick progress. I have not yet achieved these results  Good job. I can see you become better than average with this event. Do you know that Sneaklyfox also is very good at Pyra. She made podium on her first (and only) competition.



I haven't solved the megaminx in ages and it was another puzzle where I just tried to apply existing knowledge. I probably only did about a dozen solves and what I came up with was the "Bálint method". For the LL, I basically used the Dan Brown approach... EO (FRU), EP (Sune), CP (Niklas), CO (Sexy). If I was to pick it up again it would take me a few minutes to figure out how Sune and Niklas affect the Megaminx LL but it's a nice simple way to finish a solve.

I think Pyra might become one of my favoured events... alongside 3x3, 2x2 and OH. I haven't touched a 4x4 or 5x5 in months but I might return to them later in the year.

Edit 1: Sneakly has been quiet recently. Her profile says she hasn't been on for the last 4 weeks.

Edit 2: I've taken inactive events out of my signature - 4x4 and 5x5. It's been over 3 months since my last sessions with those puzzles.


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## mark49152 (Jun 21, 2015)

Just did a 2x2 session. I didn't realize it had been so long, but this was my first in 16 months.

Anyway, after a few practise solves to refresh my memory, ao100=7.78. My bao50 and bao12 were both PBs, I guess because my hands are just much faster from 3x3 practice. And amazingly, I got a 2.00 single! It was LL skip but all the same, it felt cool getting it


----------



## Logiqx (Jun 21, 2015)

mark49152 said:


> Just did a 2x2 session. I didn't realize it had been so long, but this was my first in 16 months.
> 
> Anyway, after a few practise solves to refresh my memory, ao100=7.78. My bao50 and bao12 were both PBs, I guess because my hands are just much faster from 3x3 practice. And amazingly, I got a 2.00 single! It was LL skip but all the same, it felt cool getting it



Cool. You've beaten my lucky single. 

I found that I was slightly faster after months off as well, although for me it was just 5 months. Like you say... probably due to faster hands from the 3x3. I also recall Chris Olson saying that he doesn't practice 2x2 nowadays and his times basically stay the same. I haven't picked it up again since that return session but I will try to make an effort to do it more regularly.

My first priority is to get back on to the 3x3 next week before my times start to suffer.


----------



## MarcelP (Jun 21, 2015)

mark49152 said:


> Just did a 2x2 session.



Not bad  You are faster than me.



Logiqx said:


> My first priority is to get back on to the 3x3 next week before my times start to suffer.



I think that any cubing that keeps your motor running will help in many events. Like when I did Roux in the first months of this year my times did not get worse. I am a bit bored with normal 3x3 lately and therefor do other things like Roux and ZZ every now and then.


----------



## Logiqx (Jun 22, 2015)

Ok... I'm back to 3x3 practice after some time off.

Nothing special to report for my lunchtime solves, except a LL skip... no AUF. The solve was fairly typical until I accidentally inserted my 3rd pair into the wrong slot. I solved the 4th pair into the correct slot then re-inserted the "3rd pair" where it should have gone originally. Cube solved!

I've now had 2 LL skips and 3 cross skips during my time cubing.


----------



## MarcelP (Jun 22, 2015)

Logiqx said:


> Ok... I'm back to 3x3 practice after some time off.
> 
> I've now had 2 LL skips and 3 cross skips during my time cubing.



I have had many cross skips... Never a LL skip though...  I had a 16 on this one today F2 D' U' L2 B2 U L2 D F2 R2 B' U L' F2 R F' U2 R F R2


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## Logiqx (Jun 22, 2015)

MarcelP said:


> I have had many cross skips... Never a LL skip though...  I had a 16 on this one today F2 D' U' L2 B2 U L2 D F2 R2 B' U L' F2 R F' U2 R F R2



Being colour neutral, cross skips are twice as likely as a LL skip.

The probability of a cross pre-aligned with centres is ~1/31704. It'd be ~4 times more likely when allowing for misalignment with centres.

The probability of a LL skip (without needing an AUF) is 1/62208. It's 4 times more likely... 1/15552 if you allow for an AUF.

I've had a good number of 1 move crosses as well but they are a lot more likely.


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## mark49152 (Jun 23, 2015)

Logiqx said:


> Being colour neutral, cross skips are twice as likely as a LL skip.


That's an even more interesting fact when you consider that for non-CN it means cross skip is 3x less likely than LL skip. Wow!

New 2x2 PB, try this scramble:-

1.79. R F' R U R2 U F R' F' R2 U'


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## Logiqx (Jun 23, 2015)

mark49152 said:


> 1.79. R F' R U R2 U F R' F' R2 U'



Ah, I went for the yellow face and got a normal solve. Did you go for the blue face followed by the Bowtie / L OLL and a PBL skip?


----------



## mark49152 (Jun 23, 2015)

Logiqx said:


> Ah, I went for the yellow face and got a normal solve. Did you go for the blue face followed by the Bowtie / L OLL and a PBL skip?


No, I went yellow and sledgehammered that corner in...


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## Logiqx (Jun 23, 2015)

mark49152 said:


> No, I went yellow and sledgehammered that corner in...



Ah. I've only really used sledgehammer for certain F2L cases, avoiding dot OLLs or during OLL itself... oh yeah... and on Pyraminx!

It's cool to see what it does to the LL corners in your case. I will try to remember it as an option on the 2x2. 

p.s. You seem to have got into 2x2! I plan to start doing it again fairly soon...


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## mark49152 (Jun 23, 2015)

Logiqx said:


> Ah. I've only really used sledgehammer for certain F2L cases, avoiding dot OLLs or during OLL itself... oh yeah... and on Pyraminx!
> 
> It's cool to see what it does to the LL corners in your case. I will try to remember it as an option on the 2x2.
> 
> p.s. You seem to have got into 2x2! I plan to start doing it again fairly soon...


It sometimes just feels better than a regular insert. I did not predict what it would do to the corners, that was a surprise.

I picked up 2x2 after our recent conversation about different puzzles. Probably I'll get bored of it in a few days - it is quite repetitive. It makes a change though.


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## Logiqx (Jun 24, 2015)

mark49152 said:


> It sometimes just feels better than a regular insert. I did not predict what it would do to the corners, that was a surprise.
> 
> I picked up 2x2 after our recent conversation about different puzzles. Probably I'll get bored of it in a few days - it is quite repetitive. It makes a change though.



I thought you predicted it... nice surprise for you! When I get back to the 2x2, I want to spend time predicting the OLL during more solves so that I can plan everything up to PBL. I find the inspection / planning part of 2x2 one of the most enjoyable aspects. I also like the feel of the PBL algs.

I did a bit more pyra tonight... planning as much of the start as possible feels very similar to the 2x2. Sub-14 Ao50. 

I didn't do any solves on Sunday but I did some slow solving last night and I was pretty surprised by my times tonight. I'm going to keep at it for a while longer before I put it down and work on 2x2.

Edit: What are your 2x2 PBs now?


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## mark49152 (Jun 24, 2015)

Logiqx said:


> I find the inspection / planning part of 2x2 one of the most enjoyable aspects. I also like the feel of the PBL algs.


Yeah I have gone through and checked my algs for OLL and PBL and changed some. Also learned extra PBLs to avoid x2/z2 rotations, e.g. swaps on the bottom only, diagonal top adjacent bottom as well as adjacent top diagonal bottom, etc.

I'm also interested in efficiency of the first face, and have catalogued all the cases and best solutions. Even if I can't predict OLL, I want to be able to solve first face in <0.5. 

OLL recognition is pretty much instantaneous for me on 2x2 anyway so I'm not that concerned with predicting it. I'd rather work on predicting PBL, because PBL recognition definitely slows me down.


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## Logiqx (Jun 24, 2015)

mark49152 said:


> Yeah I have gone through and checked my algs for OLL and PBL and changed some. Also learned extra PBLs to avoid x2/z2 rotations, e.g. swaps on the bottom only, diagonal top adjacent bottom as well as adjacent top diagonal bottom, etc.
> 
> I'm also interested in efficiency of the first face, and have catalogued all the cases and best solutions. Even if I can't predict OLL, I want to be able to solve first face in <0.5.
> 
> OLL recognition is pretty much instantaneous for me on 2x2 anyway so I'm not that concerned with predicting it. I'd rather work on predicting PBL, because PBL recognition definitely slows me down.



I'm also interested in first layer efficiency but they are all in my head. I've documented my OLL + PBL algs but it sounds like you've already got some good ones - http://mikeg.me.uk/cubing/Ortega.pdf

PBL recognition is pretty decent for me. I just remember the bottom case during inspection and 2-sided recognition of the top is pretty quick. I know the final AUF a lot of the time but I want to learn that 100%. I've also considered predicting the PBL during OLL (i.e. how my OLLs affect the various CLL cases) and looked how I might force better PBL cases but I don't think I will practice that yet.

1-look mid-solve is where I want to get myself in the medium term; OBL (orient both layers - made up acronym)... look... PBL (including AUF). This approach doesn't require any new recognition skills such as CLL recognition although I may decide to learn that eventually. Another benefit of predicting the OLL is that I can plan cancellations during inspection. I'm pretty sure I can drop my average to sub-6 and maybe towards 5s using this approach but I need to put in some practice.


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## mark49152 (Jun 25, 2015)

Logiqx said:


> I'm also interested in first layer efficiency but they are all in my head. I've documented my OLL + PBL algs but it sounds like you've already got some good ones - http://mikeg.me.uk/cubing/Ortega.pdf


That's really good - you have obviously done some searching and found some great algs - thanks. I will take a couple of those.

Here are the ones I use that you don't have listed:-
R' F R2 U' R2 F R (Pi OLL)
R2 U R2 U' R2 U R2 U' R2 (adjacent bottom, diagonal top - very easy to learn but frantic on the wrist)
R' U R' F2 R F' U R' F2 R F' R (diagonal top - a variant of the adjacent top that flows nicely for me)
R2 U' R' U R' F2 R F' R' F2 (adjacent bottom - another variant of the nice adjacent top alg)



Logiqx said:


> 1-look mid-solve is where I want to get myself in the medium term; OBL (orient both layers - made up acronym)... look... PBL (including AUF). This approach doesn't require any new recognition skills such as CLL recognition although I may decide to learn that eventually. Another benefit of predicting the OLL is that I can plan cancellations during inspection. I'm pretty sure I can drop my average to sub-6 and maybe towards 5s using this approach but I need to put in some practice.


That's about my target too, sub-6. Beyond that I'm not sure it's worth continuing with Ortega, and I don't quite care about 2x2 enough to learn full CLL/EG. I'm not sure CLL is worthwhile without intent to also learn EG, given the extra effort to build a layer rather than a face.


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## Logiqx (Jun 25, 2015)

Thanks for the algs. I'll take a look at them when I get back to 2x2.

It is one week since I started pyra so I thought I'd do a timed session in front of the TV. New PBs but this streak can't last for much longer... 3.19/9.49/10.87/12.19/12.50


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## MarcelP (Jun 26, 2015)

You just know when a topic is going to die. It's when they start rambling about 2X2 and pyraminx.. LOL Next thing you know we are talking about feet techniques.. Ha ha ha.. Nothjing to report other than that I have had no practice this week. Working 13 hours the last two days..


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## mark49152 (Jun 26, 2015)

There's a lot of things we might talk about on here, but I can guarantee I won't ever be talking about feet. That's one event I have no interest in whatsoever!

Anyone for clock?


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## MarcelP (Jun 26, 2015)

mark49152 said:


> There's a lot of things we might talk about on here, but I can guarantee I won't ever be talking about feet. That's one event I have no interest in whatsoever!



Me neighter, I even avoid competitions that have that event.  I leave that for the freaks. LOL


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## mark49152 (Jun 26, 2015)

MarcelP said:


> Me neighter, I even avoid competitions that have that event.  I leave that for the freaks. LOL


Good point, you don't want to have to scramble their cubes! :O


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## Logiqx (Jun 26, 2015)

mark49152 said:


> There's a lot of things we might talk about on here, but I can guarantee I won't ever be talking about feet. That's one event I have no interest in whatsoever!
> 
> Anyone for clock?



Nope... I am toying with the idea of a practice schedule to cover 6 events.

I'm probably going to try this cycle for the next 2-3 months:

Week 1: 3x3 + Pyra + 2x2
Week 2: Pyra + 2x2 + OH
Week 3: 2x2 + OH + 4x4
Week 4: OH + 4x4 + 5x5
Week 5: 4x4 + 5x5 + 3x3
Week 6: 5x5 + 3x3 + Pyra

Weeks 1 and 2 include Pyra AND 2x2. Bad luck Marcel... 

On a positive note I don't have any plans to do feet. I have literally no interest in trying it!


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## Logiqx (Jun 26, 2015)

Logiqx said:


> I'm probably going to try this cycle for the next 2-3 months...



Change of plan!

I'll switch 2x2 and 4x4. Each week will include a 3x3 event (OH or 2H), smaller puzzle (2x2 or Pyra) and bigger cube (4x4 or 5x5).

Each puzzle has 3 consecutive weeks in which I can get back up to speed and then try to improve. One puzzle changes each week...

Week 1: 3x3 + Pyra + 4x4
Week 2: Pyra + 4x4 + OH
Week 3: 4x4 + OH + 2x2
Week 4: OH + 2x2 + 5x5
Week 5: 2x2 + 5x5 + 3x3
Week 6: 5x5 + 3x3 + Pyra


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## mark49152 (Jun 26, 2015)

That's very organised, Mike.

I got a bit fed up today with lack of 3x3 progress. After posting a few weeks back about how a plot of times against solves suggested I had never really plateaued, it seems I have plateaued good and proper.

Looking at a similar plot now, there is a clear leveling off over the last 3500 solves. Over the last 2000 solves the trend is flat, around low-18/high-17. Today I did an ao100 of F2L pairs only, to see if that has improved, and my best ao50 was 8.52. I last set a PB bao50 of 8.65 back in November 2014 and I expected to be significantly faster now. Since that last PB I have done 2000 pairs solves and 5000 timed full solves. So I've solved F2L at least 7000 times, but only got 1.5% faster at it. That's not great.

Not sure what to do to improve, but doing lots of solves isn't proving effective any more. I may go back to doing some targeted practice for a while - certainly some F2L practice, maybe also some PLL attacks to improve finger speed.


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## Logiqx (Jun 26, 2015)

mark49152 said:


> That's very organised, Mike.



Hehe. I'm quite looking forward to trying out this system. I haven't touched a 4x4 or 5x5 since 5th March so it might take a while to get back to my old times.

Ah... I see that your signature has returned. Your times for 3x3 to 5x5 are looking real nice!



mark49152 said:


> I got a bit fed up today with lack of 3x3 progress.



You've clearly improved a lot this year so I wouldn't get too downhearted. It might be worth trawling through the many advanced F2L videos out there to see if anything seems useful to you. Chris Olson has been doing some nice ones lately. If the current practice approach isn't working then it won't hurt to try doing something differently. Have you tried to accurately determine your splits and check if some aspect of your solves is weaker than the rest? It might be worth trying to film yourself and asking for critique if you completely run out of ideas.


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## Logiqx (Jun 26, 2015)

MarcelP said:


> Nothing to report other than that I have had no practice this week. Working 13 hours the last two days..



Hopefully back to normal soon?


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## MarcelP (Jun 27, 2015)

mark49152 said:


> I got a bit fed up today with lack of 3x3 progress.



Join the club LOL.. I not really fed up or anything but just disapointed that I am not growing further. Although I think in 2015 I have had at least one or two Ao100 Sub 20 every week, I still can not considder myself true sub 20. There are days where I start of being around 22 seconds for the first 30 solves and can not get any faster. So now I have stepped of being stressfull about that and do other stuff. So when I practice I try different things. Like Mike said, I also have watched the Chris Olson video's about advanced F2L (and his advanced LL video is also very good). You learn from these video's but like with all new things you learn, it will take some time before you become faster with it. I also do cool Color neutral practice (just do 12 solves on orange for example), I try ZZ (although that is so very hard to do the first step), and do a few Roux solves every day. I ordered a nice original plastic Pyraminx from Moyu and I am going to catch up with Mike  That way I can join the discussions..LOL I picked up a 2 x 2 this week, but I am bored with it after only 10 minutes. Then I watched a video of how to make the first layer in order to learn full CLL. That was very interesting. I might look into that some day.

EDIT: as I come to think of it, most of my cubing time I spend looking at Youtube vids trying to learn new stuff.



Logiqx said:


> Hopefully back to normal soon?



Yeah, just slight less practice..


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## mark49152 (Jun 28, 2015)

MarcelP said:


> Like Mike said, I also have watched the Chris Olson video's about advanced F2L (and his advanced LL video is also very good). You learn from these video's but like with all new things you learn, it will take some time before you become faster with it.


I've watched those, and many other F2L tricks videos, and i don't think it's the answer for me. My F2L is pretty efficient already - I have efficient solutions to all cases, can solve at all corners equally, make use of empty slots, can avoid rotations in many cases, etc. These days it's rare that I find an F2L trick that would clearly save me significant time in a solve. I'm also happy with my LL algs and cross efficiency. My solutions are fine, it's just that I suck at doing them fast.

I get a lot of 15-16 solves and also a lot of 20-21. Sometimes it's just down to easy or hard cases, but generally if I look at the difference, it comes down to three things: composure, grips/handling, and lookahead. In a good solve, I just seem to see everything and flow through the solve with no pauses, with execution nice and smooth. In a bad solve, I lose track of pieces, catch or fumble on algs, rotate too much, rush too much, change grip too often, etc. It's those things I think I need to work on. I thought most of them would just improve with doing lots of solves, but it seems not, so my plan is to find some targeted practice techniques for them.

@Mike: I do keep track of my splits. My cross and LL are within range for a 17 second target, but my F2L and especially cross-F2L transition are not.



MarcelP said:


> Then I watched a video of how to make the first layer in order to learn full CLL. That was very interesting. I might look into that some day.


Yeah I read in another thread recently that if you just make a face with no regard to layer, 2/3rds of the time it's an adjacent swap case. Therefore it makes more sense to learn EG1 before CLL. That makes sense to me and I like that kind of logic . I might learn a few easy EG1 cases just for the adrenaline rush


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## MarcelP (Jun 28, 2015)

It was about time for a new Ao100 PB. Cube: MeiYing. Funny thing is that I did not get any sub 18 Ao12's



Spoiler: best single in Ao100



11.87 F2 D F2 L' F2 B2 U R F2 L2 B2 L' F2 L' D2 R2 B2 F' 

y2 // inspection
R' F2 D y B2 U R B' R' // CROSS, yeah I know... (9)
U2 R U' R' //1ST (4)
y' U' R U R' U2 L'U'L //2ND (9)
U' R U R' U R U' R'//3RD (8)
y R' U R U2 R' U R //4TH (8)
U2 r' R U R U R' U' r R2' F R F' // OLL (12)
M2 U' M' U2 M U' M2 //PLL (7)
57 Moves in 11.87 = 4.8 TPS (every now and then I get these ridiculous high TPS solves)





Spoiler: Ao100



Gegenereerd door csTimer op 2015-6-28
solves/totaal: 100/100

enkele
Beste: 11.87
Slechtste: 25.04

mean van 3
Actuele: 19.37 (σ = 0.36)
Beste: 15.82 (σ = 1.22)

avg of 5
Actuele: 19.37 (σ = 0.36)
Beste: 16.65 (σ = 0.22)

avg of 12
Actuele: 19.07 (σ = 0.77)
Beste: 18.03 (σ = 1.68)

avg of 50
Actuele: 18.94 (σ = 1.18)
Beste: 18.65 (σ = 1.47)

avg of 100
Actuele: 18.95 (σ = 1.57)
Beste: 18.95 (σ = 1.57)

Gemiddelde: 18.95 (s = 1.57)
Mean: 18.92

Lijst met tijden:
1. 16.83 B D2 U R2 F2 L2 R2 U' L2 F2 D2 U' L' F2 L2 F2 D2 F' R' D' U' 
2. 20.26 F2 L2 B' F' U2 F U2 R2 F2 L' B' D R' F2 U' R B2 U F' 
3. 20.77 D2 U2 B' U2 L2 F' U2 F L2 R' U R' B2 D B' L' F2 D2 F 
4. 17.23 B D2 F2 R2 D' B2 L2 D U2 B2 L2 R F' D B F2 L F' D R2 
5. 20.48 B R2 F L2 B D2 L2 F' D2 B2 R' F2 R' B' L' D L B R2 
6. 22.04 L2 U B2 R2 U2 B2 R2 U' L2 F2 R2 B U B2 D2 R D L R' B' D2 
7. 21.98 R2 B2 U2 L2 B2 R2 F2 U2 L2 R' F2 U' L' U' B D2 F' U' R' U2 
8. 18.95 R2 F' L2 F2 R2 F U2 R2 B' R2 B D R2 D B2 L' B2 U B2 U' B 
9. 25.04 F2 D2 R' F2 U2 R' F2 L2 F2 L D2 F' D B R B' L D2 B' U L' 
10. 15.18 L' U R2 U' F2 L2 U B2 F2 U2 R2 U L' R2 U L' U L' F' R2 F2 
11. 22.79 D' L2 F L2 F L2 F' U2 F R2 U2 B' R U2 L2 B' U' L F R2 
12. 17.50 R2 B' F' U2 L2 F U2 F2 L2 R B D' R D' L' R B' U 
13. 18.11 F L2 B2 D' L2 F2 D2 U2 R2 F L R' F' L2 U L2 R' U2 
14. 21.67 R2 D2 U2 R2 B2 F' D2 B U2 L2 B D L R2 U B' D2 R B2 R F 
15. 19.62 B2 L2 U2 B' D2 L2 R2 F' D2 U2 B2 U' F2 L' F D2 B' L R' B' U2 
16. 23.17 D B D' F2 L2 U F' R' L B' R2 L2 B2 D F2 D B2 D' R2 U2 R2 
17. 19.60 B2 R' B2 L2 F2 R F2 L D2 F2 B' R D R' U' F' D' F2 R F' 
18. 18.85 R2 D2 F2 D' L2 D2 R2 D' F2 D' R2 L B2 D2 R U' L' B L2 R U2 
19. 16.89 U2 L D2 F2 L2 D2 B2 L2 R U2 R F' L' F R' B2 U' L2 D' B' L' 
20. 20.28 R F2 L' D2 L2 B2 R' B2 F2 U2 F R2 U' L' F2 D' U' R U2 F 
21. 14.42 D L' F2 L2 F2 R D2 U2 L' F2 R U2 D' B F' U B' R F2 L R 
22. 16.61 R' D2 R2 U2 B' D2 F' U2 F' L2 U B' R' F2 L' D' F' D2 U' 
23. 16.45 D' F2 D' F2 U' F2 U' F2 U' B2 R2 F' L' U B2 F' R' D' R2 F' R2 
24. 18.30 R' L2 F' L2 D2 L2 B U2 L2 F R2 B2 D' F R' F D R' D R B 
25. 23.09 L2 D2 R2 D L2 R2 U' B2 F2 U' R2 F' R' U2 L B F U2 B U B2 
26. 21.91 F2 U2 F2 L2 D B2 L2 U' F2 U' L2 F' D' U' L' D2 B' L2 U B2 
27. 16.77 R U L2 F2 U' B2 D2 R2 U' L2 U2 B R' U' L' R' F L B2 D' 
28. 20.54 B2 U2 L2 U' B2 D2 B2 F2 D R2 U2 B' L2 R B2 U B L2 U R F2 
29. 17.01 R' B2 D L D2 F U F D2 F' U2 B' U2 R2 F R2 B U2 R' 
30. 17.83 U D2 R2 D2 B' U2 R2 B U2 B F U2 D L R' D B L2 D L2 U 
31. 20.08 F2 R' F' B U D R' B' D2 R' F2 R2 U' F2 U' R2 U2 B2 U2 L2 D 
32. 18.91 B2 D2 F D2 B D2 F2 U2 F L2 F2 U' R' B' L2 R B F R 
33. 19.05 D F2 U L2 B2 U2 B2 R2 D' L2 R F2 D' B' F R' D' L2 D' B F2 
34. 18.31 F2 D L' D B U R' D' B2 R2 F U2 B' L2 U2 F2 L2 F' U2 R 
35. 14.91 F2 L2 D F2 D U2 B2 L2 B2 R2 L F D' U2 B' F' U' L F2 D2 
36. 20.71 F' D' B2 D2 L2 U' R2 U' R2 U' L2 U B F2 L F' R2 U' L F L' 
37. 18.85 U2 F' R' U' F2 U' R B R2 L2 F' R2 U2 B U2 F2 R' 
38. 15.55 B2 U2 D2 L' U F' U B' R' F2 U2 R F2 L' D2 L B2 
39. 16.85 U' R' U F2 R' D B D' F R2 F L2 B R2 D2 F R2 F' L2 U 
40. 21.66 F D2 L2 R2 F' L2 B' U2 F' R B2 R2 D' U2 B D' U' B R2 
41. 17.71 L R2 D' R2 F2 D R2 U' B2 D2 U2 L B F' L' F' R' U2 
42. 20.15 U2 R2 B' L2 B2 F L2 R2 U2 B' R' D F2 L2 B' R' D' U2 R' D2 
43. 16.64 B R2 F' R2 D2 F D2 L2 B2 L2 F' U L B' R D2 U R' F R 
44. 16.50 F2 L2 D2 R F B2 D2 R' U' R' D2 L2 U2 R B2 R F2 L F2 B2 
45. 21.33 B D' L' U F' D B L B D' L2 F2 D2 F2 U F2 D B2 U2 L2 B' 
46. 21.20 B2 F2 R2 F2 D2 B2 U' R2 D' U2 L2 F L' B R2 U' L2 F' R F R' 
47. 17.81 R U2 B' R2 D2 L2 U2 B D2 R2 B2 L2 U' F2 R' B2 R2 U2 B D' F2 
48. 19.23 B U2 D2 F U D' B' D' L' F' B' L2 F R2 B R2 U2 D2 B' 
49. 17.31 D' B' U2 B' L2 D2 F D2 R2 D2 F' D2 R' B R D' L R F2 R D2 
50. 19.12 L' U2 R2 B' U2 B2 U2 B' L2 D2 F' U R B F' R F2 L2 
51. 20.50 F2 R' D2 F2 R F2 L2 F2 L' F2 R2 F L2 U' L D' U B' R U B 
52. 18.96 D2 U2 L' U2 F2 U2 F2 L2 D2 F2 D' L' U F2 U2 L' F' D2 B' 
53. 20.67 L U' R2 F2 U2 L2 D2 R2 F2 D' R2 D' R B L2 F' L' B F' R F 
54. 20.02 U F2 D' F2 D' R2 U F2 U2 F D2 R' D' R2 B D' L F D 
55. 19.01 R' U2 B2 L2 R F2 D2 L' U2 B2 D' U B' R' D F L B' R2 D2 
56. 18.94 D R F2 B' L F B L2 B L' D2 F2 D L2 U' R2 U2 B2 L2 B2 
57. 17.14 U2 F' L2 B' U2 B' R2 B2 F' D2 R2 D F' U2 R B F' D' L R D2 
58. 20.01 B' L U D R2 L' B U F R B2 L B2 U2 L2 B2 U2 R U2 L2 
59. 18.66 U2 F2 R' D2 R B2 F2 R U2 R2 F2 U F L R D' L D2 U2 R' 
60. 20.42 L2 U L2 D2 F2 U' B' D' U L' U2 R B L R' D2 
61. 17.55 F2 U B' D F' R' F' R2 F2 B2 U' R2 D L2 B2 D2 L2 F2 R' 
62. 16.19 U2 F' R2 F L2 R2 F' D2 F2 R2 U R B2 R' D' U2 B R F2 U 
63. 16.80 L' F2 R2 F' D2 F' R2 B D2 B U2 L2 D R' U2 R2 U B2 F R F 
64. 18.18 L2 F2 U R2 D2 B2 R2 B2 U2 B2 L' U' B R' F L U F 
65. 20.63 L2 D2 R2 F2 U B2 F2 L2 U' B D' U' F L' D R' F D' L2 U' 
66. 19.47 U F2 L2 D L2 B2 D' L2 U2 L2 U L B' F' D B' F' L B' U2 
67. 18.86 L2 R2 F U2 L2 R2 B L2 F2 R2 B U' L2 R' U2 B2 R' F2 U R' 
68. 19.65 F2 L2 U2 R F' B L2 U' F' L2 D F2 D R2 U' B2 L2 F2 D' R2 
69. 17.81 L' B2 D U L2 B2 D' B2 L2 F2 L D' B' L D' R2 D' U B2 
70. 17.94 R2 B2 R2 D' F2 D L2 D' R2 F' R' B2 D2 F L B D2 R' U 
71. 20.45 B2 L2 D B2 R2 D R2 D' F2 D L2 B D2 R' U' F' R U' L2 D U2 
72. 11.87 F2 D F2 L' F2 B2 U R F2 L2 B2 L' F2 L' D2 R2 B2 F' 
73. 20.52 L U2 L2 F2 D' L2 D R2 D B2 R2 U' B' L' D B2 F2 L D' B U' 
74. 19.65 D R U' F2 L F' B U' R' B' U' B2 U' F2 D R2 F2 R2 U' F2 
75. 20.62 L2 D2 B2 D R2 F2 D' B2 L2 F2 U2 L' U R' F2 L2 U L' F' D' R2 
76. 22.63 D2 R' F2 D2 R' B2 R2 B2 U2 R' D2 B' D' B2 D' F L2 R2 D' R' B 
77. 19.97 R2 F2 R2 U2 L2 U' F2 D' L2 U' L2 B' U' L' U R F2 D' R2 U' F' 
78. 17.65 B' F2 R2 B2 L2 U2 R2 D2 F' U2 F' L U R' B' L2 D F' R2 B2 R2 
79. 20.13 R' D B' L2 D' R' U B L U F2 U F2 R2 U2 D' F2 U L2 U2 
80. 17.55 B D2 F2 R2 B' D2 B2 U2 L2 U2 L2 D' B F2 R' B' U2 B' D L' 
81. 16.79 R' U2 B2 L2 B D2 B' L2 B D2 U2 B L F2 U F2 D' L2 R 
82. 20.76 B2 U2 F2 U' F2 R2 F2 U' B2 D U2 L R D F' R U R' U' R2 
83. 17.40 B D B2 L2 D B2 U F2 R2 U2 R2 U' R' B' D L U2 R2 F U L' 
84. 16.95 B2 D2 L2 U2 B' D2 B L2 F' U2 F U' L2 F D' L' U2 F U' B' L' 
85. 13.71 U' B2 U' L2 F2 U L2 D2 L2 R2 B' L' U F2 L B2 F' R' B2 R 
86. 19.37 F U2 L2 B D2 F2 R2 F' L2 F' U2 D B2 D' R B R2 B2 D U B2 
87. 18.72 F2 D' F2 U' B2 R2 B2 R2 D2 F2 D2 B R U2 R D B' L2 D B' F2 
88. 18.50 L R2 F2 U2 F' U2 F R2 B U2 F R2 U R' U2 R B' D L D2 
89. 20.32 B U B2 L2 U' L2 D' L2 R2 U' F2 R2 B' D2 B2 D' R F R' F 
90. 18.10 B2 R2 F U2 R2 U2 F2 R2 B U2 F' R' D' F R B2 L2 F2 D2 B' R' 
91. 17.23 B D2 B D2 B2 D2 B U2 L2 D2 U L2 F' U' B' R D L' F2 R' 
92. 19.20 R2 U2 L' D2 U2 R2 U2 R' B2 D' U B' L D2 L2 R' D F' 
93. 18.40 U L2 D B2 D2 U' B2 U B2 F R2 D2 R F2 U B' R' B L' 
94. 19.79 B2 D L2 R2 D' F2 U2 F2 R2 D F2 R' U' R' B F D B2 F' D' B 
95. 17.97 F2 U2 F2 D2 R2 B' U2 R2 U2 R2 B L' R' B' D' L' B2 F D2 B 
96. 18.85 R2 B2 U2 B L2 R2 U2 F' L2 U2 R2 D' R F' L' D B L F2 R U 
97. 21.38 L2 F2 U L2 F2 D' L2 B2 U L2 U F L' U2 L D' L D2 F' D' L 
98. 19.09 U' B2 D2 U' B2 F2 R2 U F2 D F D' U2 L U2 R' F U B' D2 
99. 19.25 F2 U' B2 D' L2 D L2 F2 L2 U' R' D2 R' U L' U' B' L' D' F2 
100. 19.78 D2 R' F U2 R F D' B R' D R2 D2 B2 L2 D2 L2 B' L2 B R2 F


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## Logiqx (Jun 28, 2015)

MarcelP said:


> I ordered a nice original plastic Pyraminx from Moyu and I am going to catch up with Mike



Cool. My target is now sub-10 on the pyra. It'll be great to hearing about you improving as well!



mark49152 said:


> I get a lot of 15-16 solves and also a lot of 20-21.



That variance (relative to the average) is typical of my sessions as well. For myself, I reckon on 20s +/- 15% being "normal" (i.e. 17.0-23.0) and anything outside that being lucky or a screw up. The 15% is derived from single times in the second and third quartiles during a session. Ignoring the idea of a normal distribution (statisticians would shoot me) and considering outliers to be anything more than the IQR away from the median, most sessions end up with this +/- 15% figure. Primitive as this is, I can look at the best single times and say "yeah... that was lucky". These often equate to the top 5% of the solves as well... what we discard in our session averages on csTimer / qqTimer, etc.

I don't know when I'll consider myself to be sub-20 but I consider myself "about 20" at the moment. I did two sessions yesterday (125 solves then 50 solves) and they averaged 19.7. Oh yeah, they also included a full-step PB single of 13.16 (3 move cross, easy F2L, anti-sune, ra-perm),



mark49152 said:


> Yeah I read in another thread recently that if you just make a face with no regard to layer, 2/3rds of the time it's an adjacent swap case. Therefore it makes more sense to learn EG1 before CLL. That makes sense to me and I like that kind of logic . I might learn a few easy EG1 cases just for the adrenaline rush



I've always thought this makes a lot of sense but I think I heard one of the fast 2x2 guys (Chris Olson?) say that EG-1 algs aren't as nice as CLL and suggested learning CLL first. Another approach might be to see which cases land you with your least favourite PBLs and learn those ones first.



MarcelP said:


> It was about time for a new Ao100 PB.



Nice! While you're busy chasing my Pyraminx times, I'll be chasing your 3x3 times. 

Changing the subject... I had my first chance meeting with another speedcuber this weekend. I was at a windsurfing competition and saw one of the younger guys carrying a stickerless cube around in the morning then I heard the distinctive noise of a cube coming from the van next to me later in the day. I asked him how long he'd been doing it and how he was getting on / what times he was getting. He's been doing it for about 3 months and has a PB of 30 seconds but was unsure of his average... probably about 40 seconds he thought. Another question I asked... does the noise irritate his parents ("oh yes" was the response) and what method does he use (described CFOP). I reckon he's about 17/18 years old as he said he has plenty of time to practice after college. I thought it was pretty cool to meet another speedcuber by chance.

Another random topic... I'm teaching a couple of colleagues during lunchtime(s) from 6th-9th July. It should be fun, I think!


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## MarcelP (Jun 29, 2015)

Logiqx said:


> they also included a full-step PB single of 13.16 (3 move cross, easy F2L, anti-sune, ra-perm),



Nice! If you have the scramble and reconstruction I would love to see it. Also nice to calculate TPS on a PB 



Logiqx said:


> Another random topic... I'm teaching a couple of colleagues during lunchtime(s) from 6th-9th July. It should be fun, I think!


I have considered to teach 3x3 at work but I am hesitant because it involves algs. I am affraid people would become discouraged when they see the 4LLL algs.


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## Logiqx (Jun 29, 2015)

MarcelP said:


> Nice! If you have the scramble and reconstruction I would love to see it. Also nice to calculate TPS on a PB



13.163 L2 U D F U D B U2 L F2 D' U' B2 D F2 R' B2 U2 R2 D B' D' L F2 R2

I was unable to reconstruct at the time and had no luck trying today. There are too many possible options at each point during the solve.



MarcelP said:


> I have considered to teach 3x3 at work but I am hesitant because it involves algs. I am affraid people would become discouraged when they see the 4LLL algs.



I taught my nephew at Christmas and without heavy reliance on algs. I also had him doing cross on bottom, proper finger tricks and colour neutral from the first solve. Although I taught him to solve the cube LBL, I made a point of explaining the concept of a corner / edge pair in the F2L. I taught U R U' R' for the first layer corners (rather than R U R') and then taught how it can be used later to pair an edge + corner for insertion and then insert them together. After teaching F2L, I explained that if you take a pair (or pairs) out and put restore the F2L you can affect the last layer. FURU'R'F' is a tiny extension to the already familiar U R U' R' (i.e. conjugate using F...F'), Niklas permutes corners (easiest alg when I was learning) and Sune can be used for CO (normal) and finally EP (righty Sune followed by lefty Sune). Sune is easy to teach if they re familiar with corner / edge pairs as they can track the pair rather than thinking R U R' U R U2 R. The nastiest algs when I learnt were A-perm for CP and U-perm for EP but my introductory method doesn't include these algs. Essentially, I only had to teach Niklas and Sune after he'd grasped the F2L. Both of these algs lend themselves to tracking an F2L pair.

I'll let you know how my colleagues get on next week.


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## MarcelP (Jun 29, 2015)

Logiqx said:


> 13.163 L2 U D F U D B U2 L F2 D' U' B2 D F2 R' B2 U2 R2 D B' D' L F2 R2
> 
> I was unable to reconstruct at the time and had no luck trying today. There are too many possible options at each point during the solve.



I will try to find it for you when I get my hands on a cube tonight..  With a three move cross and easy F2L it should not be that hard..


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## MarcelP (Jun 29, 2015)

MarcelP said:


> I will try to find it for you when I get my hands on a cube tonight..  With a three move cross and easy F2L it should not be that hard..



It this your solution?:

https://alg.cubing.net/?setup=L2_U_...2_(y-)_R-_U_R_U-_//_Ga_looks_a_lot_like_Ra_:)

Mine 15.73:


Spoiler



L2 U D F U D B U2 L F2 D' U' B2 D F2 R' B2 U2 R2 D B' D' L F2 R2

y // inspection
L' F R' //cross (3)
U' R' U R U' R U2 R' U2 R U' R' // ah that sucked (12)
y' L' U L // better (4)
L U L' y' U R' U2 R L'U L // OKAY (11)
y U2 R U R' // YEAH (5)
R' U R' U' B' R' B2 U' B' U B' R B R U2 // v-PERM (14) (49 IN 15.73 = 3.11 tps)

https://alg.cubing.net/?setup=L2_U_...-_B-_R-_B2_U-_B-_U_B-_R_B_R_U2_//_v&#45;PERM


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## Logiqx (Jun 29, 2015)

MarcelP said:


> It this your solution?:
> 
> https://alg.cubing.net/?setup=L2_U_...2_(y-)_R-_U_R_U-_//_Ga_looks_a_lot_like_Ra_:)
> 
> ...



Nope. Definitely not a V-perm.

I think it was a 3 move cross, 21-24 move F2L, 8 move anti-sune (including auf) and 14-15 move Ra-perm = 46-50 moves

It was a high TPS solve for me. Heck... I'll have a one last go at reconstructing.


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## Logiqx (Jun 29, 2015)

Aha!

13.163 L2 U D F U D B U2 L F2 D' U' B2 D F2 R' B2 U2 R2 D B' D' L F2 R2

y // Inspection
F R' L' // Cross (3/3)
U R U' R' U R U' R' U2 y L U' L' // F2L#1 (12/15)
U L' U2 L // F2L#2 (4/19)
U2 R U R' // F2L#3 (4/23)
U R' U' R // F2L#4 (4/27)
U' R U2 R' U' R U' R' // Anti-Sune (8/35)
R U' R' U' R U R D R' U' R D' R' U2 R' // Ra-perm (15/50)

TPS = 3.79

I saw lots of "better " F2L options whilst trying to reconstruct and it wasn't until I tried the "triple inverse-sexy" for F2L#1 that I stumbled upon my original solution.

Edit: F2L#2 was a complete fluke. I was actually setting up for the next pair and it solved itself. lol


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## Logiqx (Jun 29, 2015)

Actually... I remember BR solving itself so I've re-recreated that by changing the rotation during F2L#1.

13.163 L2 U D F U D B U2 L F2 D' U' B2 D F2 R' B2 U2 R2 D B' D' L F2 R2

y // Inspection
F R' L' // Cross (3/3)
U R U' R' U R U' R' y' U2 R U' R' // F2L#1 (12/15)
U R' U2 R // F2L#2 (4/19)
U2 L U L' // F2L#3 (4/23)
U L' U' L // F2L#4 (4/27)
U R U2 R' U' R U' R' // Anti-Sune (8/35)
R U' R' U' R U R D R' U' R D' R' U2 R' U2 // Ra-perm (16/51)

TPS = 3.87


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## mark49152 (Jun 29, 2015)

Nice PB Marcel, and nice solve Mike! I had a go at reconstructing but couldn't find the solution until you posted it.

I dug out the Pyraminx to see if I could remember how to solve it. Took me a few mins but I can now do it... but not fast. Maybe I will give it a bit more effort.



Logiqx said:


> That variance (relative to the average) is typical of my sessions as well. For myself, I reckon on 20s +/- 15% being "normal" (i.e. 17.0-23.0) and anything outside that being lucky or a screw up. The 15% is derived from single times in the second and third quartiles during a session. Ignoring the idea of a normal distribution (statisticians would shoot me) and considering outliers to be anything more than the IQR away from the median, most sessions end up with this +/- 15% figure. Primitive as this is, I can look at the best single times and say "yeah... that was lucky".


That is pretty accurate for me as well - 18.5 +/- 15% is roughly high-15 to low-21 and yes that is about what I consider the bounds of "normal" - outside that is lucky or a screw up. The solves I really hate are the ones that felt fast, so I expected to get 17 or so, but the timer shows 20+, and I can't understand where I lost the time .



Logiqx said:


> I've always thought this makes a lot of sense but I think I heard one of the fast 2x2 guys (Chris Olson?) say that EG-1 algs aren't as nice as CLL and suggested learning CLL first. Another approach might be to see which cases land you with your least favourite PBLs and learn those ones first.


Yeah I saw that, and maybe it's reasonable for people who intend to learn both, but I'm not going to learn CLL. I'm motivated by the fact that EG1 would come up 2/3rds of the time. Factoring in which PBL each case would otherwise go to is a good idea. I'm not a fan of the adjacent top/bottom PBLs at all.


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## MarcelP (Jun 30, 2015)

Logiqx said:


> Actually... I remember BR solving itself so I've re-recreated that by changing the rotation during F2L#1.



Well at least I am glad you did not find a shorter first F2L in both solves than me. Twelve is the number for us


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## Logiqx (Jun 30, 2015)

mark49152 said:


> I dug out the Pyraminx to see if I could remember how to solve it. Took me a few mins but I can now do it... but not fast. Maybe I will give it a bit more effort.



Cool. 



mark49152 said:


> I really hate are the ones that felt fast, so I expected to get 17 or so, but the timer shows 20+, and I can't understand where I lost the time .



I use KingEn on my phone when I am out and about but it's been acting weirdly lately. Sometimes the real-time display freezes then jumps to the correct number some time later. Often times it might stop updating towards the end of my solve then jump to a realistic number when I stop the timer. The most annoying thing is when I stop the timer and the display refreshes to something accurate then 3 seconds later it jumps up to another number which I know was not my time! I don't know if the number of solves in it's history is causing issues or if it is something else on my phone.



MarcelP said:


> Well at least I am glad you did not find a shorter first F2L in both solves than me. Twelve is the number for us



I'm pretty sure I'd have done L' U L U R U R' for the first pair after your cross execution. I'm surprised at my pair selection after my cross. I can only think that I'd spotted them during the cross and thought it better to do the triple-sexy solution than pause and look for another pair.


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## mark49152 (Jun 30, 2015)

Logiqx said:


> I use KingEn on my phone when I am out and about but it's been acting weirdly lately. Sometimes the real-time display freezes then jumps to the correct number some time later. Often times it might stop updating towards the end of my solve then jump to a realistic number when I stop the timer. The most annoying thing is when I stop the timer and the display refreshes to something accurate then 3 seconds later it jumps up to another number which I know was not my time! I don't know if the number of solves in it's history is causing issues or if it is something else on my phone.


I use KingEn always, and have the display update turned off so it just shows "solving". Occasionally when I stop the timer, there's a pause before the result appears, but I do think it's the correct time.

I do sometimes wonder how trustworthy the timer is, but then I wonder if I switched whether I would trust the new timer any more


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## mark49152 (Jul 1, 2015)

Some new PBs this week: My first sub-3 5x5 solves (2:54 and 2:55) and PB ao12 = 3:16. Also broke the sub-7 ao100 on 2x2 (6.63). My plan is to keep doing 5x5 until I break 3 mins ao12 then move on to 4x4. 

I decided not to learn EG1 for 2x2 (yet) as I don't care about 2x2 enough to learn the recognition - I will just get as fast as I can with Ortega and learn to predict OLL/PBL as Mike suggested.


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## Logiqx (Jul 1, 2015)

Nice times Mark. I'll start working on my 2x2 in a couple of weeks. This week is 3x3, Pyra and 4x4. 

I've done my first 4x4 session in about 5 months. My previous PB for Ao30 (never got to Ao50) was 01:38 but I am a fair bit slower now. I went for my first Ao50 today and got 01:48 but It includes a lot of mess ups and I was getting faster throughout the session. At least I have a baseline against which I can try to improve over the next 3 weeks. 

I did get a single PB of 01:16.75 midway through the session which was encouraging. The Yau stage was fast and then it was a smooth 3x3 stage with fast OLL / PLL with no parity fixes.


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## mark49152 (Jul 2, 2015)

Logiqx said:


> The Yau stage was fast


Have you tried Hoya?

I started to clean out my Aosu as it has gone catchy and gummy, but it takes too much time to clean and reassemble so it's lying in pieces. The next great cube innovation should be lower friction plastic that doesn't need lube...


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## MarcelP (Jul 2, 2015)

mark49152 said:


> Some new PBs this week: My first sub-3 5x5 solves (2:54 and 2:55) and PB ao12 = 3:16. Also broke the sub-7 ao100 on 2x2 (6.63).



That 6.63 Ao100 is pretty sweet. I am pretty sure I would not get below 9 - 10 seconds on a Ao100. I will give it a go soon. My 5x5 is around 5 - 6 minutes. I am just glad I can still solve it that quickly  LOL



Logiqx said:


> I did get a single PB of 01:16.75 midway through the session which was encouraging. The Yau stage was fast and then it ...



Nice single! My PB is around 1.26 I think. I use Hoya. You should look into that. When I went from Yau to Hoya I took 30 seconds of my average. If you are that fast on Yau you might be faster on Hoya. Hoya is real effective.


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## mark49152 (Jul 2, 2015)

MarcelP said:


> That 6.63 Ao100 is pretty sweet. I am pretty sure I would not get below 9 - 10 seconds on a Ao100. I will give it a go soon. My 5x5 is around 5 - 6 minutes. I am just glad I can still solve it that quickly  LOL


I used Mike's study of competition data to set relative targets for 2x2-5x5 (although I do take long breaks from each). My target for 3x3 is to improve 2% per month. Then my target for 2x2 is 0.4x my 3x3 target, 4x4 is 4.5x, and 5x5 is 10x. At the moment, 5x5 is the only event way off target - I should be sub-3 already.

I also set a target for 6x6 but for some reason I just can't get to grips with that. I've never been able to solve the thing in less than 10 mins.


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## MarcelP (Jul 2, 2015)

mark49152 said:


> I've never been able to solve the thing in less than 10 mins.



LOL.. ahhh you too..


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## Logiqx (Jul 2, 2015)

MarcelP said:


> I use Hoya. You should look into that. When I went from Yau to Hoya I took 30 seconds of my average. If you are that fast on Yau you might be faster on Hoya. Hoya is real effective.



It is on my todo list but I'd like to see how my Yau improves over the next few weeks. 

Crazy Pyra single last night (2.35) but it was only 5 moves and not WCA legal so I'm not counting it.



MarcelP said:


> LOL.. ahhh you too..



Ditto. I've only solved it 5 times and not timed.


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## Logiqx (Jul 2, 2015)

Yay.. sub-12


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## mark49152 (Jul 2, 2015)

Logiqx said:


> Ditto. I've only solved it 5 times and not timed.


Knowing how difficult it is to handle big cubes, I find it extraordinarily impressive to see fast people like Hays solving them. I would love to be competent at 6x6 but haven't got the patience, let alone ability.


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## moralsh (Jul 2, 2015)

Come on, big cubes are not that hard! 
I went from 20 minutes to 13 in about ten solves on the 7x7 and managed 11 something at a comp a week later. I'm around 7 minutes on the 6x6 and I have solved less than 20 or 25 6x6 in my life.

All of you beat me at 3x3, if I can I'm sure you can!


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## MarcelP (Jul 2, 2015)

moralsh said:


> All of you beat me at 3x3, if I can I'm sure you can!



But you can solve BLD and multe BLD and we can't.. well.. I can't. LOL I have no interest in big cubes. I have solved my 6x6 and 7x7 less than 5 times in my life.


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## mark49152 (Jul 2, 2015)

moralsh said:


> Come on, big cubes are not that hard!
> I went from 20 minutes to 13 in about ten solves on the 7x7 and managed 11 something at a comp a week later. I'm around 7 minutes on the 6x6 and I have solved less than 20 or 25 6x6 in my life.


I have done 11 timed 6x6 solves and came down from 17 mins to 10:19 PB. Looking at my 5x5 times, I think 7 mins on 6x6 would take me about 50-100 solves (maybe 10-20 hours) to achieve and would be about the point at which it becomes much harder for me to improve further. Right now I'm not hugely motivated to invest that much time in 6x6 - its too time consuming and I'd rather focus on smaller puzzles that I enjoy more - but who knows, maybe I'll give it a shot some time.


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## MarcelP (Jul 3, 2015)

Always nice when your third solve of the day is a 12 



Spoiler: scrambles



Time List:
1. 16.82 F' R2 U2 B2 L2 B D2 L2 F' D' B2 L R' F L2 D' U2 B2 F
2. 19.75 U' B2 D R B' L' F' U' B L B' L2 U2 D2 F' L2 D2 F' R2 B R2
3. 12.87 U2 L' R' B2 R F2 R B2 U2 B2 U' R' B' D F' U' F' L' B


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## Logiqx (Jul 3, 2015)

Nice solves to start the day Marcel.

I've just done an Ao50 with 18's being the most common time. I seem to have a problem with 17's. 

16+: 8
17+: 1
18+: 17
19+: 10
20+: 6
21+: 2
22+: 4
23+: 0
24+: 2



Spoiler



Generated By csTimer on 2015-7-3
solves/total: 50/50

single
best: 16.07
worst: 24.96

mean of 3
current: 18.23 (σ = 1.71)
best: 17.09 (σ = 0.83)

avg of 5
current: 18.24 (σ = 1.70)
best: 17.68 (σ = 0.79)

avg of 12
current: 18.72 (σ = 1.66)
best: 18.56 (σ = 1.20)

avg of 50
current: 19.16 (σ = 1.52)
best: 19.16 (σ = 1.52)

Average: 19.16 (σ = 1.52)
Mean: 19.27

Time List:
1. 19.38 L2 D2 U2 F2 U2 B' R2 B' U2 B L' F' D' B2 L2 D' L2 U' B' D' R' 
2. 16.84 L D2 L' B2 R U2 L U2 F2 R2 F2 D' L' R' B' L D' U2 R2 
3. 20.82 R2 D2 F2 U2 B2 D' L2 F2 R2 U R2 L F' L' R B' L2 D U2 
4. 18.42 F R2 U F B L2 B' D F2 R' F2 B2 D2 L2 D2 L D2 B2 U 
5. 19.03 R2 L D R' D' F2 R2 D2 F' L2 D' B2 U R2 U2 B2 D' L2 U2 B2 
6. 19.33 F U2 R D' B2 R B L2 D' B2 U2 F D2 R2 L2 B L2 B L2 D2 
7. 18.68 D2 L B2 R F2 R' F2 U2 R U2 L2 B' R U2 L2 D2 L2 D 
8. 17.87 B2 R2 U2 F2 R2 U2 R' F2 U2 R B' R D B D2 L R2 B' D F2 
9. 18.05 F D L2 U R2 U2 F2 D R2 B2 U B2 R U2 B' F R' B U' L' D' 
10. 18.19 R2 U2 B2 D F2 L2 D U L2 F2 D2 B L F' R B R' U' F U F 
11. 21.04 F2 D2 L2 D' F2 R2 B2 L2 D2 F' L2 U2 R2 B2 D B L U' F 
12. 19.05 D2 F2 U L2 R2 U R2 U L2 R2 U' L D' L B2 L2 U2 B' D2 L' F2 
13. 18.59 L U2 L' U D2 B2 R' F' R D2 F B2 U2 F R2 F' L2 F D2 R2 
14. 18.86 D' L2 U B2 R2 U F2 U' B2 L2 D' R' F D' F2 U B U' B' L U 
15. 20.12 D2 U2 L2 F2 U2 B' L2 B' U2 B' L D' R F' D2 R2 D' R' F R 
16. 18.34 B' U2 B' F2 U2 R2 F2 R2 F' U2 L2 D U L U' R' F' R' D2 B2 
17. 20.71 D2 B2 D' R2 U' F2 R2 F2 U L2 B D2 R' D2 F R B U B 
18. 24.96 L' U' R B' U2 R F2 R2 D' L B2 R2 B' R2 F U2 F2 L2 
19. 24.09 U' L2 R2 B2 R2 F' L2 R2 U2 B U2 L' R' D F2 R2 B L2 D R' 
20. 16.07 D' B R2 B L2 D2 R2 F' D2 L2 B2 R' B R2 B' U2 R2 U B R' 
21. 19.90 D' U2 R2 U2 F2 R' D2 F2 D2 B2 U2 L D' B2 R D2 U F D 
22. 22.24 B' D2 L2 F2 R2 F U2 F' R2 F' L2 R U' B2 L R' U' F2 D B U 
23. 19.69 B2 U' R' D' F B' R D R' L2 F U2 R2 F' B' U2 L2 U2 B' 
24. 19.25 L2 U2 B2 R2 F2 R2 U L2 U2 F2 U2 B D' R B2 L U R F' R B' 
25. 22.60 F2 D R2 U2 D2 R F L U B L2 F2 R D2 R' F2 R' D2 R' B2 U2 
26. 19.67 L2 D' U' B2 R2 D' R2 B2 F2 R B L D' L2 B F U' F2 R 
27. 18.30 R' U L2 U' R2 U B2 L2 D L2 B2 D2 L' B' D' U2 R2 U B2 F R 
28. 16.80 F' L2 B2 L2 U2 L2 F2 R2 U2 B R2 D L U2 L' U2 L2 B U2 L2 
29. 20.25 R2 B2 D' L2 D2 F2 R2 F2 D' F2 B L D' B U2 R' D2 R' D2 U 
30. 18.66 D2 F' D' B U R' F2 L B' U2 B2 U2 B2 D R2 U L2 B2 R2 
31. 18.35 B R2 U' R2 B2 U' L2 R2 F2 R2 U2 L2 F L' B' R U B R' D2 U 
32. 19.99 D' F2 D2 U2 R2 U2 F L2 U2 B2 U2 B U' R B F2 D2 U' R B' 
33. 18.80 D2 L2 B' D2 R2 B L2 B' F L2 R2 U L' B2 D2 L2 D' B R U' 
34. 22.51 U2 F2 D' R2 D2 L2 F2 D' B2 R2 D F' U' L D U R D U' B' 
35. 18.03 B R F' U B2 L2 F' L F2 R2 L2 U2 D F2 B2 D F2 R2 U F 
36. 16.46 L' B R2 U F' B R F L2 B2 U L2 D2 B2 D R2 U R2 B 
37. 16.77 B F2 D2 L B2 U2 F2 D2 R B2 L F2 D' R D' L D B' L R' 
38. 20.58 B2 L2 B2 L2 B' R2 B' U2 B2 L2 D2 R D B' D2 F2 R2 D' R2 U' B' 
39. 18.24 L2 B2 L' B2 U2 R2 D2 R' F2 L B2 D' B D' U' R2 U F2 D2 U2 
40. 22.58 F' U' R B L D' L F' L' U' F2 U2 F' B2 R2 D2 F' U2 D2 F' D2 
41. 20.72 B2 D2 B' R2 F' U2 B L2 F2 U' F R U F2 R' F R' D' B 
42. 16.78 D L2 U L2 U2 F2 D2 B2 L2 R2 U' F R D2 L2 B2 R D U' R2 F2 
43. 18.10 B2 R2 F' U2 B L2 R2 D2 B2 L2 F2 U' L D2 F L2 R2 D' L' B D2 
44. 18.13 D L2 R2 B2 R2 D' L2 D' L2 D2 L F2 U2 R' F' L' F' R U' B 
45. 18.71 B U R2 U2 D R U D' L2 F' R2 F' R2 B' U2 B U2 B2 U' 
46. 21.83 R' L2 D F2 U2 B2 L2 D L2 D U B L F2 L F' U2 L' R F2 
47. 16.52 U' L2 U' B2 U2 F2 R2 D' R2 D2 F' L U F' R B L' U' R B 
48. 18.30 B L2 B2 D2 R2 F2 R2 F L2 F' D2 R' D' R F' L2 B' L' U2 F 
49. 19.92 B2 D B2 U2 L2 D' F2 R2 U F2 B L' R' B2 D2 B L' D2 F L 
50. 16.49 R U' R L2 U' F' D B2 U F' U2 B D2 B U2 L2 B2 L2 F' D2


----------



## mark49152 (Jul 3, 2015)

Nice times guys. Today I had a 2:33 PB 5x5 solve. I'm still not 100% sure it wasn't a timer malfunction!


----------



## Logiqx (Jul 3, 2015)

mark49152 said:


> Nice times guys. Today I had a 2:33 PB 5x5 solve. I'm still not 100% sure it wasn't a timer malfunction!



Impressive. I dread to think what my 5x5 times will be like when I start back!

I carried on with 3x3 for an Ao100. No standout singles but a nice improvement in my Ao50 (18.76) and a little bit better for my Ao100 (19.38).


----------



## Logiqx (Jul 5, 2015)

Another year older (yesterday) but hey, most of us are in the same boat on this thread. 

I only did a few solves before I hitting the water yesterday but it was a good session average.

After 3 untimed solves, I decided to start timing myself but I had to stop after 7 solves:

# of solving: 7
Std Dev: 0.700

Best of all: 15.137
Worst of all: 20.148

Average of all: 17.956
Best Avg of 5: 17.496

Solving times (shown in reverse... KingEn timer): 15.137 18.244 18.047 17.425 17.016 19.050 20.148 

Only 7 solves and a PB average of 5 (albeit 0.05 improvement).


----------



## MarcelP (Jul 5, 2015)

Logiqx said:


> Only 7 solves and a PB average of 5 (albeit 0.05 improvement).



Congrats on the PB and birfday  Nice to see a PB in only 7 solves. Who knows what happened when you would have done 100


----------



## MarcelP (Jul 5, 2015)

Logiqx said:


> Best Avg of 5: 17.496



LOL. I tied your Ao5 PB as my best Ao5 of the day



Spoiler



Generated By csTimer on 2015-7-5
solves/total: 100/100

single
best: 15.93
worst: 29.28

mean of 3
current: 19.18 (σ = 2.44)
best: 17.32 (σ = 1.41)

avg of 5
current: 19.06 (σ = 1.56)
best: 17.49 (σ = 1.26)

avg of 12
current: 19.21 (σ = 1.56)
best: 18.60 (σ = 1.60)

avg of 50
current: 19.68 (σ = 1.54)
best: 19.62 (σ = 1.60)

avg of 100
current: 19.71 (σ = 1.61)
best: 19.71 (σ = 1.61)

Average: 19.71 (σ = 1.61)
Mean: 19.83


----------



## Logiqx (Jul 5, 2015)

MarcelP said:


> LOL. I tied your Ao5 PB as my best Ao5 of the day



Hehe. Nice coincidence!


----------



## mark49152 (Jul 6, 2015)

Happy Birthday+2, Mike 

I did a couple of 6x6 solves today. New PB = 8:51. I don't have the stamina for more than two solves in a session though


----------



## Logiqx (Jul 6, 2015)

Thanks Mark. Good to see your progress on the 6x6.

This week, I've started teaching two of my colleagues to solve the cube. Todays session was general background (pieces, terminology, notation, etc) and the cross. Hopefully they will practice the cross tonight and we'll move on to the F2L tomorrow.


----------



## Logiqx (Jul 9, 2015)

7 weeks to get fast!

https://www.worldcubeassociation.org/results/c.php?i=AugustBankHolidayCompetition2015


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## Logiqx (Jul 10, 2015)

Nice session today.

Pyra Ao12 / Ao100 = 9.69 / 10.98
4x4 Ao12 / Ao50 = 01:34.10 / 01:38.41

I'd like to get my typical 4x4 times within the UK cut-off - 01:30.

Mike


----------



## MarcelP (Jul 10, 2015)

Logiqx said:


> Nice session today.
> 
> Pyra Ao12 / Ao100 = 9.69 / 10.98
> 4x4 Ao12 / Ao50 = 01:34.10 / 01:38.41
> ...



Both averages are quite fast! Are you intended to go to a competition any time soon?


----------



## Logiqx (Jul 10, 2015)

MarcelP said:


> Both averages are quite fast! Are you intended to go to a competition any time soon?



I've registered for the ABHC at the end of August. It's only 15-20 minutes from my house.

https://www.worldcubeassociation.org/results/c.php?i=AugustBankHolidayCompetition2015


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## MarcelP (Jul 13, 2015)

Logiqx said:


> I've registered for the ABHC at the end of August. It's only 15-20 minutes from my house.
> 
> https://www.worldcubeassociation.org/results/c.php?i=AugustBankHolidayCompetition2015



Cool. D not expect your times to be much higher than at home. Or else you will be disappointed. But then again there are always people with steel nerves that do better at competition than at home 

I just had an Ao50 PB (by 0.17). ( my times when to **** after 70 solves or else it would have been PB Ao100 also


Spoiler



Generated By csTimer on 2015-7-13
solves/total: 100/100

single
best: 14.33
worst: 25.70

mean of 3
current: 20.49 (σ = 2.06)
best: 15.45 (σ = 0.74)

avg of 5
current: 18.68 (σ = 1.64)
best: 15.97 (σ = 1.40)

avg of 12
current: 19.74 (σ = 1.96)
best: 17.62 (σ = 1.54)

avg of 50
current: 19.37 (σ = 1.61)
best: 18.47 (σ = 1.61)

avg of 100
current: 19.13 (σ = 1.71)
best: 19.13 (σ = 1.71)

Average: 19.13 (σ = 1.71)
Mean: 19.15

Time List:
1. 19.57 U L F R F2 B2 R B F2 U2 B2 L U2 B2 L U2 B2 D2 B 
2. 18.58 D' L' U2 L' R2 F2 L2 F2 U2 R' F2 D' R U B D2 R' D L' F2 
3. 23.11 D F U' R2 U' F R' D2 L R2 U2 L2 U B2 D B2 R2 U2 F2 U2 B 
4. 20.67 D2 U2 L2 B L2 F' U2 L2 F' R2 D B2 U' B F L R B U2 L U' 
5. 19.01 D2 L2 U' F2 U' B2 L2 U' B2 L2 U' B L2 U' R' B' D2 L' D R' B2 
6. 18.00 D' B2 D L2 R2 F2 D L2 B2 F2 U2 B U B' R U L' B' F2 D L2 
7. 25.70 R2 B2 U B2 U F2 D' L2 D' F2 L2 F' L' R2 U' R' F2 U' L2 R2 F 
8. 18.63 F' R U' R' U' B' U2 B' F2 R' B2 R2 B2 L' F2 D2 B2 U2 R F 
9. 19.87 L' U2 L2 F2 D2 R B2 U B' U2 F2 R2 B2 U' F2 U' F2 U' R2 
10. 17.41 F B2 R B R2 L B' R2 U L' D2 B U2 F2 B' L2 D2 L2 U2 B L2 
11. 18.88 D' R F R2 F' L' F' U R' B L2 B' R2 F D2 F2 U2 B D2 B 
12. 17.97 D B2 L2 D U L2 F2 D L2 D' R B F2 D2 R F2 R2 D F2 L2 
13. 18.88 B2 L2 R2 U2 B R2 F2 D2 U2 L2 B2 L' D' L' D2 R D2 B' D' L' B 
14. 20.59 B' R2 B' U2 B L2 B2 D2 F' L2 B R' D' B2 L' B' D2 L' B2 L U 
15. 17.37 L' D2 L' D2 U2 B2 D2 R2 F2 L' D B U' L U2 B2 F' L2 B' 
16. 18.54 R' B2 L B2 U2 R F2 D2 L U2 L D' R F D2 B' D F L' D2 
17. 20.46 U2 L D2 B2 F2 R2 B2 R' B2 F2 R' F R2 U F L2 D' R B F' R2 
18. 20.48 F' B2 U2 D' R2 L2 B R L2 F2 D R2 F2 B2 D' F2 L2 D2 R2 L' 
19. 21.69 L' B2 U2 L' B2 U2 L' R2 D2 F2 U2 D B D L' F' D2 R2 U' B 
20. 15.97 D2 F' L2 R2 U2 B2 L2 F' R2 F2 R2 L U' R2 D2 F' R2 F' U L' R' 
21. 21.42 D' F' D' F D2 L F U' F2 B D2 F R2 F L2 F2 U2 R2 F R' 
22. 17.28 B2 R F2 U2 R B2 R' F2 L' D R2 U B' L2 F R' U2 F' R' 
23. 20.56 F2 U B2 R2 B2 U2 L2 D' F2 R B' U' F' R' F2 R F' L B 
24. 21.23 L' F2 U' B2 D' F2 D' F2 D' B2 L2 D2 R B2 U' F' D2 U' B L D' 
25. 22.75 L2 F2 L2 D L2 D' U2 L2 U2 B2 R2 L D' B R2 F D U B L2 
26. 15.91 D2 U2 L2 B F' L2 B' R2 B' U2 F' L B' D U' B2 F2 R' U2 F2 L 
27. 14.59 B' L2 U' L2 B2 D B2 U L2 R2 F2 U2 R B F2 L' B L2 U R2 B 
28. 15.84 D U L2 D R2 F2 U B2 R D2 B2 D' F U L D' R2 F D' 
29. 20.13 B L' F2 U2 D' L' F B U F2 B2 U2 L2 D B2 U' R2 U2 F2 
30. 18.05 F R' L U2 L U' F' L' B2 D2 L2 U L2 B2 R2 D2 L2 D2 R' 
31. 21.81 L F2 U' R2 D' F2 R' F D R D2 R2 L' F2 R' U2 B2 U2 R' 
32. 17.81 B' L' B2 D2 U2 L B2 R2 U2 R B2 D F' R U L2 U2 L' U' B' D' 
33. 19.79 D' F2 L2 U2 B2 D' B2 D B D' U2 R' U L' U2 F L' U R2 
34. 17.92 L' D2 R' D' L D' R' F' R D2 L2 U2 F' L2 U2 B' D2 F2 L2 U2 
35. 20.12  F' L' F' U B' D2 F2 D L' D2 L2 U2 R2 B2 D F2 L2 B2 L2 U' 
36. 18.66 R D2 B2 R' B2 R' D2 R U2 R2 D2 B U F U' L' D L F R2 
37. 19.38 F2 U' F2 L2 D' B2 R2 B2 D2 F D U' L' D L' D B2 L' F2 
38. 14.45 U2 R' F2 L F2 D2 L' U2 L' F2 R2 U' B F2 D L U' R U F' R2 
39. 16.24 D B U2 L2 U2 L2 F U2 L2 F L2 B' L' R F R B D2 B' U' R 
40. 17.57 B2 U2 B' U2 R2 F2 U2 L2 B' R2 F L' F' L B' D' U2 B R2 D' F' 
41. 17.22 D' R L' F' L F D' B' R' B2 R2 L2 D2 B U2 B L2 F' L2 D2 
42. 14.33 U2 L B' D' L' B2 R D R2 B D2 B2 U2 R2 B R2 F' R2 D2 R 
43. 17.18 L' U B U2 R' L2 F' D' R' F2 D2 F2 L2 U2 F2 L2 F' R2 F 
44. 19.88 B2 F2 L2 U2 L' B2 L' R2 D2 B2 L2 D' R2 U' L' B L2 R U' B' U2 
45. 20.95 L2 R2 F2 D2 R2 U L2 R2 B2 U2 B D2 F2 R F' D2 F' L2 F R' 
46. 18.55 L F L U2 L U' F R' D' R2 F' B' D2 F2 D2 R2 U2 F2 R2 
47. 17.95 B' U F2 L2 B2 F2 D2 U' R2 U B2 D' L' B' U R' D' U2 R U R' 
48. 18.40 D U L2 D2 L2 F2 U' R2 U L2 F' U L' B2 R2 F L2 D' L2 
49. 21.44 F2 D L B2 R' F' D F2 U2 L U2 F' D2 F L2 D2 L2 B R2 U2 F 
50. 14.73 B' L2 U2 R2 D2 U2 B' U2 B' L2 F' D U' L D' F' R B' F' R2 
51. 19.25 B2 U2 B2 R D2 U2 F2 D2 L F2 B R B F D U' B' L2 D2 B 
52. 18.69 F B' R' F U2 L B2 R U R2 F2 U2 B2 R' U2 R' F2 D2 L2 
53. 19.80 F2 L2 R2 B L2 F D2 F L2 B' D2 R D L' B' F' R D R F2 U2 
54. 19.20 R L' F' D L F B' R B' F2 D2 L B2 U2 B2 U2 R B2 R B2 
55. 18.62 U B2 U' L2 U B2 D F2 R2 D L2 R' B F L2 F D2 B' L' B L' 
56. 18.42 F2 U2 F' R2 F' L2 U2 R2 B D' B2 L D' B' L F2 L2 U R2 
57. 19.87 U L2 B R2 B' L2 F' D2 F' D2 R2 L' B2 F' U B L2 D R2 B' 
58. 17.95 U R2 U R' L2 D' L B' L2 U R2 D' B2 L2 U' R2 D' R2 U2 
59. 15.48 F2 D L2 R2 U F2 U R2 U' B2 L' R' B' U' F D' R2 F2 D' F' 
60. 22.67 L B2 R2 D2 L F2 L2 B2 R' D' R' F U' F R' B2 U2 F2 
61. 21.39 U' L2 D2 R2 B2 U' L2 R2 D' R2 D F R F D2 L' D2 L2 B U' 
62. 17.71 F D R2 F D' R2 L2 B2 R' L2 F D2 F' U2 B' D2 F' L2 U2 F 
63. 15.99 F2 D2 F2 D' B2 L2 U' F2 L2 U' L2 R F' L2 U' B U' L2 R U' R' 
64. 19.55 R B L U' L F U R D B U2 R2 F2 B' U2 R2 B U2 L2 F2 
65. 21.62 R' U' R2 D F2 D2 B2 L2 R2 U' B2 U' F' D' F2 R B2 L D B R' 
66. 18.61 B2 U' R2 U' B2 U' L2 U' L2 R F U' F' D R' B' D2 F R2 
67. 17.52 R F2 L' U' F' D R B U' L2 F2 D2 L2 U' R2 D R2 F2 D2 F 
68. 19.26 L2 B2 L' U2 R2 F2 R' B2 L' D2 R F' U' L' R' B R2 F' R' F' 
69. 22.16 D B2 L2 F U2 B2 R2 F2 L2 U2 R2 U2 R F R B D' R' F' L D2 
70. 19.11 L D U L2 F2 L2 D R2 U B2 D' L2 F U2 B2 R F2 L2 U R D' 
71. 16.91 F U2 L2 B' L2 D2 L2 F' R2 B2 U R' D2 B' R U' F D F U 
72. 17.96 D2 B2 L2 B2 F2 D' F2 R2 U' R2 U' B' L D U2 R U F L' R2 F' 
73. 17.76 F R' L D B R2 F L B2 R2 F2 U2 R B2 U2 F2 R' B' 
74. 18.52 L' U2 L' D2 U2 B2 U2 R F2 R F U B R F2 D' L2 R2 F2 R2 
75. 20.02 R2 B F D2 R2 F' U2 R2 B2 F R' D U F2 R' U2 F R U2 
76. 22.15 U2 L D2 L2 R' U2 R2 F2 U2 R' D2 B U2 R U F L' F2 L R2 
77. 19.36 F2 D F' D2 L F' B2 U L F U2 B' U2 D2 L2 B D2 F R2 F' 
78. 16.49 F2 B2 D' F R2 L' B2 D F2 R2 U2 F' L2 B' R2 F' L2 B R 
79. 19.11 U2 F D' L2 U2 R L2 D2 F' U2 B2 R2 U' F2 B2 D B2 R' 
80. 20.75 R2 F' L2 B2 D2 L2 B D2 F U2 F' L' U R' F2 D F2 L2 F2 U' 
81. 21.67 F2 U2 F2 D F2 U B2 D B2 L2 U2 B' D2 B2 R' B D L U' F2 U 
82. 18.51 R' F2 U2 F' D2 F L2 F U2 L2 F' D2 L B2 F' L2 D L2 F2 U2 B 
83. 20.18 U2 R U2 L2 B2 L' F2 U2 R2 F2 L' D' F2 D' B D' F2 L D' B 
84. 18.80 F R' L2 B L2 F U B R2 U2 D' L2 U2 F2 R2 F2 U' L2 F2 R 
85. 17.00 D R2 D R2 U' F U B L F2 R F2 R' U2 R' D2 F2 U2 R' U 
86. 18.40 D2 F' R' U' F B U B' L2 D B2 R2 U' L2 U D2 B2 U' B2 
87. 25.51 D L2 R2 F2 R2 U' L2 R2 U F2 U2 R D' L U B2 F D' U2 F' U' 
88. 22.20 U B2 F2 L B2 R2 F2 D2 L2 R B2 R2 D' F2 R' U2 L B D2 L' 
89. 17.88 F L2 B2 R D2 L' D2 F2 R2 F2 R U2 D B R2 U' R F D' B D 
90. 20.54 U B2 U B2 U L2 R2 U' L2 R F2 D' B' U2 R B2 L2 B F' 
91. 20.58 U D R D' F R2 F' B' U' L2 D' L2 D2 F2 U R2 D2 
92. 17.80 U2 D2 R F2 R2 B R F2 L' F2 D' R2 L2 D' L2 U B2 U F2 L2 
93. 19.27 U2 L2 D F2 U2 R2 F2 U R2 D L2 R' U2 R F L2 D U F U2 L' 
94. 23.08 D F' U2 B' D2 B' L2 U2 R2 F2 R' U' L' F' L' D2 L D2 B2 
95. 22.72 B' D R' U F2 R2 L' F' L' F D2 F2 L2 F L2 U2 B2 L2 D2 B2 
96. 17.12 L U R F U2 D' L' U B F2 L2 D' R2 U2 D' R2 L2 D F2 D B 
97. 17.17 F B2 L' B U L' D B L' U' R2 U B2 R2 D' R2 F2 D' L2 B2 
98. 22.58 D' B D2 F U B' R B' R' U2 R F2 U2 L D2 R2 B2 L' B2 
99. 18.46 U2 B2 R2 F2 D R2 D L2 B2 U2 L2 R U' B R2 F2 R' B2 D2 B' U2 
100. 20.42 F2 D L2 B U2 F' R2 L' U' D2 R2 F' U2 F L2 U2 F' R2 L2 B2


----------



## Logiqx (Jul 13, 2015)

Nice session.

I don't expect my competition times to be close to my good sessions at home. I know from years of competitive athletics and windsurfing how self inflicted pressure is usually the cause of a poor performance. Expecting good times is asking for trouble so I'll just try to relax and see what happens.


----------



## Logiqx (Jul 15, 2015)

I finished teaching my two work mates to cube today.

It was kind of enlightening and generally quite a fun experience. I've now taught 4 total beginners to cube but I've also introduced a couple of guys to F2L and 4LLL.

It never fails to amaze me how difficult some people find the cross. Once they're past the cross they seem to pick up the other steps relatively quickly... corners and edges come quickly and LL hasn't proven to be particularly challenging.

The hardest thing was getting both guys together during lunchtimes what with random meetings, support incidents, etc.


----------



## MarcelP (Jul 16, 2015)

Logiqx said:


> The hardest thing was getting both guys together during lunchtimes what with random meetings, support incidents, etc.



LOL, yeah I know how that is..

I did only 25 solves today. And in the first 23 I had a PB Ao12 and Mo3 . jay!



Spoiler



Generated By csTimer on 2015-7-16
solves/total: 25/25

single
best: 13.33
worst: 27.01

mean of 3
current: 18.89 (σ = 3.05)
best: 14.66 (σ = 1.23)

avg of 5
current: 18.46 (σ = 2.65)
best: 16.32 (σ = 1.76)

avg of 12
current: 18.40 (σ = 1.94)
best: 17.23 (σ = 2.14)

Average: 18.75 (σ = 1.88)
Mean: 18.82

Time List:
1. 21.26 B2 R2 B2 U2 R2 D F2 L2 U R2 D F R B' R D2 U' F2 L D U' 
2. 19.11 F' R2 U2 F R2 B R2 B' R2 D2 F' U' F' R2 D2 R D' L' U' B R 
3. 19.23 R' F2 U2 F2 U L2 F2 D' F2 L2 U2 R2 F R' D' B L R2 B' F D2 
4. 16.99 R B2 D2 F2 L2 F2 L F2 U2 L' F2 B' U2 R2 F2 R' U L U R 
5. 22.19 U2 R' U2 R' L U' L2 F' D' L2 B' D2 B2 R2 D2 R2 D2 F' 
6. 18.50 L B2 D2 B' D2 F' R2 B L2 F' D2 F2 L' F U' F R F' R' D2 
7. 27.01 L' U2 F2 R2 U2 R F2 D2 B2 U2 R2 D L' U' L U' B F' U F R 
8. 19.52 L B2 U' R' B' D B' R' D' L2 D F2 D' B2 R2 L2 U2 R2 B2 L 
9. 19.91 B L' B2 U2 R' B2 R' D2 R' F2 D2 B' F R' F D L2 U' B 
10. 20.65 F2 U2 L2 R2 U B2 U L2 B2 L2 R' B D2 R' D U' R D2 B' U2 
11. 18.69 U L2 B2 R2 U B2 F2 L2 D B2 D' R B' D F' R2 F2 U' B2 U' R' 
*12. 13.33 F2 R2 B2 D B2 D L2 D U2 F2 D R B2 D2 F' L R U2 B2 U' R 
13. 14.91 B' D' R B D' L' F2 D' B R2 U2 L2 D2 R2 B2 D F2 R2 F2 D' 
14. 15.75 B2 R2 U2 R B2 D F2 B D F2 R' F2 L2 B2 L' F2 U2 L D2 L *
15. 18.29 B' D' F2 R2 U2 R2 F2 D' B2 D' F2 L2 R' B F2 D2 U' B U R2 F2 
16. 18.39 F2 L2 R2 D U2 F2 L2 U2 R2 U R' U2 L' B' F2 D' R' B2 F2 L' 
17. 16.59 F' U L2 D' F2 U L2 D' R2 D B2 D B D2 B2 R' D' B2 F L2 R2 
18. 18.42 U' R2 B' L2 F' R2 F2 L2 F' D2 L2 U2 D' L D B R' B R 
19. 20.64 B L U B U B2 D' R' D B2 U2 L B2 L2 U2 L' B2 L' U2 L' 
20. 20.54 D L' F2 U2 F2 D B2 R2 U' L F' L2 F2 L2 U2 B U2 B L2 
21. 14.27 B R' B2 U D R' F2 L' D F D2 F2 L2 B2 R2 D2 F L2 F' R2 D 
22. 19.76 F D2 L2 F L2 B U2 B2 R2 U2 F' L' D L2 B' R2 F' D2 L2 R U2 
23. 15.41 D B2 D B2 D2 R2 U R2 F2 R2 F2 L B' L2 R F2 U' B2 L' F U' 
24. 20.20 B2 U2 R U2 L' F2 U2 R F2 B' D' B2 D L2 D B2 L' R 
25. 21.07 U2 F2 D B2 U' L2 R2 D' L2 D' F2 B R' D' R2 D' F2 R2 F2 U2 F'


----------



## mark49152 (Jul 16, 2015)

Nice PBs Marcel... still improving! Do you have a target?


----------



## Logiqx (Jul 16, 2015)

mark49152 said:


> Also broke the sub-7 ao100 on 2x2 (6.63).



I'm just about sticking to my practice schedule (except no lunchtime practice due to cube lessons) and 2x2 was re-introduced this week.

I've done two sessions so far... last night I got my first sub-2 single (12 moves, 9 planned during inspection) and today was my first sub-7 / sub-6.5 Ao100.

I had some nice OH solves this evening as well... 0.5s improvement on Ao5 and 1.5s improvement for Ao12.

I've neglected the 4x4 due to lack of time. That's a little self inflicted though as I didn't have to go digging in the WCA database for over 40 stats.


----------



## Logiqx (Jul 16, 2015)

MarcelP said:


> LOL, yeah I know how that is..
> 
> I did only 25 solves today. And in the first 23 I had a PB Ao12 and Mo3 . jay!



Nice. You're still improving!


----------



## mark49152 (Jul 17, 2015)

Logiqx said:


> ... last night I got my first sub-2 single (12 moves, 9 planned during inspection) and today was my first sub-7 / sub-6.5 Ao100.


Very nice. How is the OLL prediction going? And which cube do you use?

I haven't done 2x2 for a few days as I went back to 4x4 and 5x5. Finally broke 3 mins on 5x5, and also today got a new 3x3 bao50 PB of 17.28. Feels like I might be starting to break past that plateau, and I think the bigger cubes have helped.


----------



## MarcelP (Jul 17, 2015)

mark49152 said:


> Nice PBs Marcel... still improving! Do you have a target?



Yeah, the last few PB's indicate that I am improving. I have no target. I have been doing only untimed Megaminx (no, I do not have a Moyu Megaminx) and untimed 4X4 solves daily with almost no 3X3 practice. End of summer I have a competition so I also should starting to do OH and Pyra and 2X2 again. 

ps I did not even register for 5X5 since I am still averaging 5 minutes and the cutoffs to steep for me.


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## Logiqx (Jul 17, 2015)

mark49152 said:


> Very nice. How is the OLL prediction going? And which cube do you use?
> 
> I haven't done 2x2 for a few days as I went back to 4x4 and 5x5. Finally broke 3 mins on 5x5, and also today got a new 3x3 bao50 PB of 17.28. Feels like I might be starting to break past that plateau, and I think the bigger cubes have helped.



At the moment I only do OLL prediction if the first face is really easy, perhaps 1/10 solves. Most of my solves are just planning the first face and predicting the permutation. I'll start working on OLL prediction later this week or next week. I also need to look at my AUF prediction (i.e. after PBL) as I only do that half the time but it makes a big difference to the times. Predicting OLL and AUF feels plenty good enough for sub-5 solves.

My cube is a Dayan Zhanchi.


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## Schmidt (Jul 17, 2015)

Hey Marcel. 
This is probably a good week for you to enter in 4x4 in the weekly (​if you still plan to beat me in that)


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## MarcelP (Jul 17, 2015)

Schmidt said:


> Hey Marcel.
> This is probably a good week for you to enter in 4x4 in the weekly (​if you still plan to beat me in that)



I did. What did you get?


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## Schmidt (Jul 17, 2015)

Hey Marcel. This is probably a good week for you to enter in 4x4 in the weekly (if you still plan to beat me in that)


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## MarcelP (Jul 17, 2015)

Schmidt said:


> Hey Marcel. This is probably a good week for you to enter in 4x4 in the weekly (if you still plan to beat me in that)



Yes, I did that. I am asking what your result was  Mine was quite good (few secs faster than my competition best)


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## Schmidt (Jul 18, 2015)

Didn't mean to double-post  I had written a long text but was hit by an error 504 

results can be seen on Tuesday. One of us was ~2 sec faster than the other! Ohh, the suspense.


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## MarcelP (Jul 18, 2015)

Schmidt said:


> Didn't mean to double-post  I had written a long text but was hit by an error 504
> 
> results can be seen on Tuesday. One of us was ~2 sec faster than the other! Ohh, the suspense.



LOL, it must be you then.


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## moralsh (Jul 18, 2015)

Competition PB average or single? 

Maybe I should also start practicing, I've registered for 2-5 (and blind events) for spanish nationals in October.


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## MarcelP (Jul 18, 2015)

moralsh said:


> Competition PB average or single?
> 
> Maybe I should also start practicing, I've registered for 2-5 (and blind events) for spanish nationals in October.



I am lookiing to beat your 3X3 avg this year  (also Schmidt's avg) I think I have a good chance when I am not too nervous.


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## moralsh (Jul 18, 2015)

I am also looking to beat my average this year [emoji14], let's hope we all can!


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## Logiqx (Jul 19, 2015)

mark49152 said:


> That's really good - you have obviously done some searching and found some great algs - thanks. I will take a couple of those.
> 
> Here are the ones I use that you don't have listed:-
> R' F R2 U' R2 F R (Pi OLL)
> ...



Thanks for those suggestions. The Pi case is really nice and the adjacent bottom cases (bar on left) will supplement my existing algs nicely. I'll try to integrate them into my solves.

I think I played with your Y-perm when I was trying out algs but I think I can execute the other one slightly quicker.

I notice there is a newbie competitor called Mark signed up for the ABHC competition. Is that you by any chance?


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## mark49152 (Jul 19, 2015)

Logiqx said:


> Thanks for those suggestions. The Pi case is really nice and the adjacent bottom cases (bar on left) will supplement my existing algs nicely. I'll try to integrate them into my solves.


Since I posted that, I've started reversing the U and U' in the adjacent bottom diagonal top alg. Flows slightly better for me that way.

Also I know you're working on prediction - does that Pi OLL work for you? I don't have a cube with me to check, but I think it swaps pieces on the bottom.

I doubt I will be able to go to ABHC. It's a long way from home for me and on bank hols I usually have family commitments.


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## Logiqx (Jul 19, 2015)

mark49152 said:


> Pi OLL work for you? I don't have a cube with me to check, but I think it swaps pieces on the bottom.



Good point... it is an EG-1 alg and swaps the front pieces. I may not use it for now as it'll add some thinking during the solve.



mark49152 said:


> I doubt I will be able to go to ABHC. It's a long way from home for me and on bank hols I usually have family commitments.



It's only 15 minutes for me which is a good reason for me to try to make it. 

Where are you located btw?


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## Logiqx (Jul 19, 2015)

MarcelP said:


> ps I did not even register for 5X5 since I am still averaging 5 minutes and the cutoffs to steep for me.



I'm thinking I probably won't do 5x5 at the competition in August. It's only 6 weeks away so I am going to dedicate my big cube time to 4x4 which is generally better than my 5x5.

I've been making some tweaks to my 4x4 solves over the past couple of days and they're starting to pay off. Today's Ao5/12/50 was 01:28.95/01:30.32/01:35.92

Other news... I have finished learning full OLL for OH. I still need to "think" my way through some of them but they're probably faster than 2 look and they'll slowly work into my muscle memory.


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## MarcelP (Jul 19, 2015)

Logiqx said:


> Other news... I have finished learning full OLL for OH.



Wow, I envy that dedication! I am even too lazy to relearn the 4LLL at this moment


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## Logiqx (Jul 19, 2015)

MarcelP said:


> Wow, I envy that dedication! I am even too lazy to relearn the 4LLL at this moment



It was a lot easier than learning OLL the first time. OLLCP next...



Spoiler



LOL. Just kidding!


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## mark49152 (Jul 20, 2015)

Logiqx said:


> Where are you located btw?


North west, not far from Liverpool.



Logiqx said:


> I've been making some tweaks to my 4x4 solves over the past couple of days and they're starting to pay off. Today's Ao5/12/50 was 01:28.95/01:30.32/01:35.92


Great, what have you tweaked, and what method do you use? I have done quite a bit of 4x4 over the last couple of weeks but am still a few seconds outside the PBs I set back in Oct 2014. I'm averaging about 1:25 using Hoya with 3-2-3 pairing and 4LLL with parity fixes built in. I'm working on trying to improve the efficiency of my Hoya cross, and trying to use 1L OLL more often when there's no parity. Some of my 3x3 OLLs just don't flow for me on bigger cubes.


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## Logiqx (Jul 20, 2015)

mark49152 said:


> North west, not far from Liverpool.
> 
> Great, what have you tweaked, and what method do you use? I have done quite a bit of 4x4 over the last couple of weeks but am still a few seconds outside the PBs I set back in Oct 2014. I'm averaging about 1:25 using Hoya with 3-2-3 pairing and 4LLL with parity fixes built in. I'm working on trying to improve the efficiency of my Hoya cross, and trying to use 1L OLL more often when there's no parity. Some of my 3x3 OLLs just don't flow for me on bigger cubes.



Near Liverpool... I occasionally visit West Kirby to speed sail on the marine lake (flat water next to the wall) but I only do it a few times each year.

I use Yau for the 4x4, typically using half centres during L4C. I use 3-2-3 for the L8E and a single OLL parity alg after which I can do 1-look OLL in most solves. I'm getting better at spotting PLL parity and in some cases I know how to influence the PLL (e.g. T-perm instead of F-perm) by choosing the best angle to apply the parity alg. I use a few different PLLs; RU U-perms and Z-perm (instead of MU) being the most notable but a couple of RUF algs instead of RUD. Sometimes I use 2-gen OLLs or rRU algs from my OH set if it doesn't require an AUF to set up.

The tweaks mainly relate to my cross edges. After watching a couple of walkthrough solves, I realised that I often pair up the first 3 cross edges inefficiently and my last cross edge was always very inefficient. During the 3-2-3 stage there are also some special cases which can be handled better and one of the nice ones is when it ends with 2+2. It is most efficient to solve a single edge, forcing a fast 3-cycle (5 moves) for the final 3 edges. Apart from that I've been trying to plan more of the F2C and make my solves flow better.

I like the idea of Hoya but I use free slice on the 5x5 upwards and I like Yau on the 4x4.


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## MarcelP (Jul 21, 2015)

Mark/Mike, have you seen the unbox video's of the CycloneBoys 5X5? It is 9 dollars at Lightake and the unboxing video's all say that it is pretty good. (better than AoChuang). I just ordered one to find out  I might be doing some more 5X5 soon.

Edit: even less: http://lightake.com/p/Cyclone-Boys-Jisuzhiwu-5x5x5-Magic-Cube-Speed-Puzzle-6-3cm_m1667.html 
Also, only $13 at Cubicle.us


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## MarcelP (Jul 21, 2015)

OMG, just had my second 10 ever

46. 10.94 B' U' F' U2 F U' R' D L' U F2 D F2 U B2 R2 U2 D F2 L2 R'
x2 y2 // inspection
F'L' D L R' F D2 // cross (7)
y' U2 L' U' L // 1st (5)
y' U L' U L //2nd (5)
y' U' F U' F' //3rd (5)
y' F U2 F' U F U' F' //4th (8)
U2 F R U' R' U' R U R' F' R U R' U' R' F R F' U' //PLL (19)
49 moves = 4.47

If that was not the longest PLL I had... it might have been a sub 10 (again)
Cube: Moyu Hualong
x2 y2 // inspectionF' L' D L R' F D2 // cross (7)y' U2 L' U' L // 1st (5)y' U L' U L //2nd (5)y' U' F U' F' //3rd (5)y' F U2 F' U F U'F' //4th (8)U2 F R U' R' U' R U R' F' R U R' U' R' F R F' U' //PLL (20)


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## Selkie (Jul 21, 2015)

Nice solve sir. I seem to be on a bit of a drought on 10.x solves at the moment


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## mark49152 (Jul 21, 2015)

Nice solve Marcel. Curious, but why do you rotate and solve pairs on the F face?


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## Logiqx (Jul 21, 2015)

MarcelP said:


> y' U2 L' U' L // 1st (5)
> y' U L' U L //2nd (5)
> y' U' F U' F' //3rd (5)
> y' F U2 F' U F U' F' //4th (8)



Nice time. So many F moves as well! 

In answer to your earlier question, I was not aware of the CycloneBoys 5X5.

I ordered some cubes and I'll collect them from the mail depot tomorrow; LingPo, Mini AoSu, Mini WeiLong and spare HuaLong.

I'm improving at 4x4 and starting to get a sub-1:30 Ao5 daily. My last two sessions (Ao15/Ao20) have been 1:33 so I am making progress.

I also had my first sub-37/36 OH Ao50 tonight (35.87). I'm pleased the ABHC cut-off is likely to be 1:00 as I occasionally mess up and get times around 45s.


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## mark49152 (Jul 21, 2015)

Logiqx said:


> In answer to your earlier question, I was not aware of the CycloneBoys 5X5.


I missed that one. I might try this cube. I have ShengShou, AoChuang and HuaChang but none are great for me. AoChang feels great but still locks too much. Last week it locked solid and I had to dismantle and reassemble it, which took about an hour. Too annoying!


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## Logiqx (Jul 21, 2015)

mark49152 said:


> I missed that one. I might try this cube. I have ShengShou, AoChuang and HuaChang but none are great for me. AoChang feels great but still locks too much. Last week it locked solid and I had to dismantle and reassemble it, which took about an hour. Too annoying!



Ah... I'd forgotten about that characteristic of the AoChuang.


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## MarcelP (Jul 21, 2015)

mark49152 said:


> Nice solve Marcel. Curious, but why do you rotate and solve pairs on the F face?



I make lot of use of thumb and index finger (the finger that points) on F moves in order to avoid rotations. This solve was very high on F moves  Not typical for me. I think it was more of an accident since I could see the next pair on all moves waaaay before I needed to see them. I think I did the F moves because I thought the pair after that would become easier. I probably thought wrong but it worked out nicely


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## MarcelP (Jul 21, 2015)

Selkie said:


> Nice solve sir. I seem to be on a bit of a drought on 10.x solves at the moment



But you have quite a few sub 15 averages lately


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## mark49152 (Jul 22, 2015)

Logiqx said:


> Ah... I'd forgotten about that characteristic of the AoChuang.


Just when I've forgotten, it reminds me. If only there was a 5x5 with the feel of the AoChuang and pop resistance of the HuaChuang...


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## Selkie (Jul 22, 2015)

MarcelP said:


> But you have quite a few sub 15 averages lately



Very true, the concentrated training at the moment is currently paying off. Still looking for the elusive sub 15 AO12 and of course the eventual aim of sub 15 overall but with old age comes determination


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## moralsh (Jul 22, 2015)

MarcelP said:


> Mark/Mike, have you seen the unbox video's of the CycloneBoys 5X5? It is 9 dollars at Lightake and the unboxing video's all say that it is pretty good. (better than AoChuang). I just ordered one to find out  I might be doing some more 5X5 soon.
> 
> Edit: even less: http://lightake.com/p/Cyclone-Boys-Jisuzhiwu-5x5x5-Magic-Cube-Speed-Puzzle-6-3cm_m1667.html
> Also, only $13 at Cubicle.us



I got it last week but I think I like the aochuang a bit more. the feeling is similar to the yuxin 4x4 and 3x3, very loose cubes that sometimes go faster than I would like to. Value for money? Absolutely. I also ordered the stickerless huachuang but I haven't tried it yet.


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## mark49152 (Jul 22, 2015)

moralsh said:


> the feeling is similar to the yuxin 4x4


I like the faster feel of the Yuxin 4x4. It's less tiring to solve. However, the corner cutting isn't as nice as the Aosu, and that means my times come out worse overall.


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## Logiqx (Jul 22, 2015)

Logiqx said:


> I ordered some cubes and I'll collect them from the mail depot tomorrow; LingPo, Mini AoSu, Mini WeiLong and spare HuaLong.



Initial thoughts after a little bit of playing with the new cubes:

2x2: The LingPo is much faster than my Dayan. It's speed is comparable to my shelved V-Cube 2 but the LingPo has great corner cutting, unlike the V-Cube 2 which sucks in most respects. I think this will become my main, replacing the Dayan.

4x4: The Mini AoSu stickers look kind of big (proportional to the cubies) but they're ok. The smaller cube is more comfortable to turn and it is easier to control, especially during 3x3 stage. I think it will become my main, replacing the regular AoSu.

3x3: The HuanLong (name on the box has changed from HuaLong) is just as good out of the box as my original purchase. I now have two black ones as my main and backup. Actually... one of them is a little gummier than I'd like as I used slightly too much lube in the core.

OH: I ordered the Mini AoLong V2 but I received the V1 instead. I like the smaller size but I think it is too unstable for my OH. The regular HuaLong turns better and is more controllable so it will probably stay as my OH main. I might order a Mini Weilong to see how that fairs for OH as I do like the feel of a smaller cube.


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## MarcelP (Jul 22, 2015)

Logiqx said:


> 2x2: The LingPo is much faster than my Dayan. It's speed is comparable to my shelved V-Cube 2 but the LingPo has great corner cutting, unlike the V-Cube 2 which sucks in most respects. I think this will become my main, replacing the Dayan.



For 2X2 I have the newest Fangshi (Xi-something). It performs better than my Dayan, LingPo, and Cycloneboys.. Colors on the white one (with black stickers) are awesome. You should try one when you order some new cubes.


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## MarcelP (Jul 22, 2015)

Selkie said:


> Very true, the concentrated training at the moment is currently paying off. Still looking for the elusive sub 15 AO12 and of course the eventual aim of sub 15 overall but with old age comes determination



I tried to film a slow Ao12 like you did. I have to say... big kuddos to you man. I honoustly can not do that. When I turn slow I can not get sub 20 solves. I did manage to get a nice average with 'slowish' turning. Still it feels like I turn really fast. (almost as fast as I can)



Spoiler



Yeah, first solve is a plus 2 
58. 15.86 R' D2 L2 R2 D R2 B2 U B2 D' B2 D' L' B' F2 D' B U' B R
59. 20.35 L2 F L F' U B D2 R L U2 D F2 U R2 B2 R2 D' B2
60. 17.88 B2 D' F2 D' F2 R2 B2 U' F2 D' U' R D' B F2 D L2 B2 U2 F R
61. 17.20 F' L2 B' L B' R' B' U D' L2 F' R2 F U2 F2 R2 L2 U2 F' R
62. 20.82 B2 U2 R' B2 R' B2 F2 L' U2 R2 F' U2 R2 B L2 R F D R
63. 19.19 U2 R2 D2 U2 L' U2 F2 L2 F2 R' B2 U' F' L' U' B' U' R B F'
64. 15.94 R' D' R B2 L' F U F2 R F2 L2 F2 U' F2 B2 R2 U L2
65. 21.91 F U2 L2 D2 U B2 L2 R2 D' R2 U2 R B' U' B2 F U2 L F2 R
66. 19.68 L2 U L2 R2 D U L2 D' B D F R F' L2 U' R B2 F'
67. 20.42 R D F R2 D' L2 U2 D' F R' U B2 L2 U' B2 U' R2 D' F2 D2 L2
68. 20.40 U' L2 D' F R' L F U' B2 L U2 L' F2 L U2 R2 B2 U2 F2 U'
69. 22.16 L' F2 U F2 U R2 D2 L2 U L2 U' F2 L' U' R' B R F2 R2 F L
70. 16.26 B' L' D2 L' U2 R D2 B2 R F2 L2 F2 B' D B U R D B D2


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## Selkie (Jul 22, 2015)

MarcelP said:


> I tried to film a slow Ao12 like you did. I have to say... big kuddos to you man. I honoustly can not do that. When I turn slow I can not get sub 20 solves. I did manage to get a nice average with 'slowish' turning. Still it feels like I turn really fast. (almost as fast as I can)



Marcel, I am delighted you gave it a try mate :tu

I have to confess I probably found it easier because I have always tried to do a few exploring solves at that pace or slower very regularly during practice sessions. You are quite right, older hands always feel like they are at TPS maximum a lot of the time and it takes a lot of practice and persuasion to get the fingers moving faster.

That slow average of 12 has had a big impact on me, almost like a light bulb moment. Though work has been very busy today I did have half hours practice after getting home from work and I tried to emulate the video but increasing TPS to say 80% of maximum while solving the last slot, OLL and PLL and was surprised by the results. Best Ao12 was just sub 16! But with very regular 13.x solves, more regular than normal but also some bad solves. Overall session was 16.9, just 0.6 second off my usual. I am going to alternate between max throttle and those new types of sessions to see if I cant claw a few tenths to aim for a sub 16 Ao100 by the end of next month. My self set challenge is on!

Have to say I find it great being able to chat and discuss cubing with people of similar age. It's hugely motivating


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## Logiqx (Jul 22, 2015)

MarcelP said:


> For 2X2 I have the newest Fangshi (Xi-something). It performs better than my Dayan, LingPo, and Cycloneboys.. Colors on the white one (with black stickers) are awesome. You should try one when you order some new cubes.



On the subject to 2x2. Try this scramble from csTimer...

R2 F' R F U' F' U2 R' U'



Spoiler



Wow. There are two intuitive 4 move solutions. They are actually the same solution but from a different perspective.

Blue start: x z2 U R U' R2'
Red start: zy R U R' U2'

I solved it in just over half a second (blue start) but I was taken by surprise and didn't stop the timer until 1.68.


Haha... failed and the moment I realised it on video.


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## mark49152 (Jul 23, 2015)

Logiqx said:


> R2 F' R F U' F' U2 R' U'


LOL... Never had one of those.

Here's my PB scramble, 1.79:-
R F' R U R2 U F R' F' R2 U'


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## MarcelP (Jul 23, 2015)

Selkie said:


> Marcel, I am delighted you gave it a try mate :tu
> 
> Overall session was 16.9, just 0.6 second off my usual.....
> 
> Have to say I find it great being able to chat and discuss cubing with people of similar age. It's hugely motivating



I will focus on slow turning for a while. I was always very impressed with this video of Sneklyfox

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lzrlf2yNXtU
She used to come here in this topic but has not been seen in a while. I agree, discussing cubing with people my age makes it so much more fun.



Logiqx said:


> On the subject to 2x2. Try this scramble from csTimer...
> 
> R2 F' R F U' F' U2 R' U'
> 
> ...





Spoiler



I had 2.45.. I am just that slow  LOL..







mark49152 said:


> LOL... Never had one of those.
> 
> Here's my PB scramble, 1.79:-
> R F' R U R2 U F R' F' R2 U'



Took me 10 seconds. I could not find a short solution


----------



## Logiqx (Jul 23, 2015)

mark49152 said:


> LOL... Never had one of those.
> 
> Here's my PB scramble, 1.79:-
> R F' R U R2 U F R' F' R2 U'



That was a great time. I can see 3 possible good starts and only one leads to a PBL skip. I don't think I'd have got that in a normal solve. Bowtie is not my favorite OLL.

My previous PB was 1.90 and required a 2 move layer, 6 move OLL (U or T), 3 move PBL and AUF. I managed to plan past OLL during inspection and the PBL was double-diag + U2 which is very distinctive.


----------



## mark49152 (Jul 23, 2015)

Logiqx said:


> I can see 3 possible good starts and only one leads to a PBL skip.


Just shows how 2x2 is all down to luck. My solution (no bowtie) was

z' F R U' R'
R U R' U' R' F R F' U'

Note the 6 moves that could have cancelled if I had your inspection skills


----------



## not_kevin (Jul 23, 2015)

mark49152 said:


> LOL... Never had one of those.
> 
> Here's my PB scramble, 1.79:-
> R F' R U R2 U F R' F' R2 U'



I don't do 2x2 much, but I found a nice solution to that scramble 



Spoiler



x' y2 R' F R F' U'


----------



## Logiqx (Jul 23, 2015)

mark49152 said:


> Just shows how 2x2 is all down to luck. My solution (no bowtie) was
> 
> z' F R U' R'
> R U R' U' R' F R F' U'
> ...



My orange solution was z' y (L' U' L' U L2') U' (F' R U R' U' R' F R). We both started on orange but I've learnt a new way to solve that corner case from your solution. Thanks. 

Your solution also includes the T OLL just like my previous PB. I quite like the T but I suck at the mirror when I try to do it left handed!

IMHO, I think scrambles with 4 move solutions are too easy; often a 3 move insert + 1, R2 F2 R2 + 1 or something intuitive. 5 moves are probably too easy as well and account for <1% of all possible states. It's certainly a contentious issue when you search for "scramble filtering" and has polarised views.



not_kevin said:


> I don't do 2x2 much, but I found a nice solution to that scramble
> 
> x' y2 R' F R F' U'



Nice. It's slightly ironic that a sledgehammer insertion (SS style) is the quickest solution when Mark's previous PB started like that iirc.


----------



## Selkie (Jul 23, 2015)

Selkie said:


> That slow average of 12 has had a big impact on me, almost like a light bulb moment.



Indeed a light bulb moment with PBs just now for AO5 and AO12

Average of 5: 14.08 (In Bold)
Average of 12: 14.98
1. 15.39 U2 B D2 R2 F' L2 F' R2 F2 R2 B2 L' B' D2 R' F2 U B' L2 D U' 
2. 14.14 F B' U' F2 B' D R2 L' F U B2 U L2 D2 L2 B2 D' R2 U' L2 
3. (18.62) B2 D2 L' U' F' R D F L B2 L2 B R2 D2 L2 F2 D2 L2 B D2 
4. 15.11 B2 U L2 U2 F2 D' B2 U2 B2 R2 D' F' D' B' L2 U2 R F2 U' L' R' 
5. 16.56 B2 D2 L2 U' F2 D' R2 B2 D2 L2 U2 B' U' R' U' L' D U' R B' F 
*6. 14.27 D' L2 R2 D2 R2 U' R2 D' R2 D2 R' B' U' F2 D' R U' B2 U' F' R' 
7. 14.64 F2 U2 B2 L' D2 L2 F2 U2 L' U2 R2 F' U B D2 L U' L' R B' F2 
8. 15.04 L2 U' B2 D2 R2 U L2 D B2 F2 U' L F2 L2 F' U' R2 F' R U R 
9. (11.05) B2 D R2 U F2 U L2 U2 L2 U B' D B' U2 B2 R' F' D2 L U' R 
10. 13.34 U L' B L2 U2 B' L2 B2 U L D2 L2 D R2 U L2 F2 D F2 B2 U' 
*11. 15.01 F U D2 F2 U2 F U' B2 R B2 R2 U' L2 U R2 B2 U L2 D' L2 
12. 16.26 U' B2 L2 D R2 B2 U' R2 D' R2 F2 R' B D2 R' D L U F L2 R'


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## MarcelP (Jul 23, 2015)

Selkie said:


> Indeed a light bulb moment with PBs just now for AO5 and AO12



Did you do that with slow turning in F2L and fast LL? Or everything slight fast.


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## Selkie (Jul 23, 2015)

MarcelP said:


> Did you do that with slow turning in F2L and fast LL? Or everything slight fast.



That's the strange thing mate, felt like normal pace or maybe 2%-3% slower across the whole solve but I just seemed to be able to track better. I am wondering if the concentrated slow solves for the video are giving me look ahead practice to apply to my normal speed. One thing is for sure, I'm going to try and do a super slow AO50 as often as I can. The few percent helped F2L for lookahead and that drop in TPS on LL seemed to more or less get rid of lockups.

I am still on the same Ao100 session and sub 16 might still be possible if improbable


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## Logiqx (Jul 23, 2015)

I've uploaded my first 4x4 recording - 1:20.68 mean of 3

It looks soooo slow there is clearly plenty of room for improvement.


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## Selkie (Jul 23, 2015)

Logiqx said:


> I've uploaded my first 4x4 recording - 1:20.68 mean of 3
> 
> It looks soooo slow there is clearly plenty of room for improvement. [/url]



Nice mean and really good times with the turn speed :tu


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## MarcelP (Jul 23, 2015)

Logiqx said:


> I've uploaded my first 4x4 recording - 1:20.68 mean of 3
> 
> It looks soooo slow there is clearly plenty of room for improvement.



Very nice. It looks indeed so slow. I average just under 2 minutes and I feel like I am turning so fast that smoke comes from my cube..


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## mark49152 (Jul 23, 2015)

Yeah that looks so slow! I average about 1:25 and like Marcel said, my cube smokes and my fingers burn. Either I'm not as fast as I think I am, or my solves are shocking inefficient!


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## Selkie (Jul 23, 2015)

Logiqx said:


> It looks soooo slow there is clearly plenty of room for improvement.



Have you tried Yau method mate? Just out of interest. I found it had a profound impact on my times. Love your slow turning on these solves... #turnslow

Should be trending on the forums


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## MarcelP (Jul 24, 2015)

mark49152 said:


> I average about 1:25 and like Marcel said, my cube smokes and my fingers burn.



LOL..



Selkie said:


> Have you tried Yau method mate? Just out of interest. I found it had a profound impact on my times. Love your slow turning on these solves... #turnslow
> 
> Should be trending on the forums



I use Hoya on 4X4. It is maybe not as effective (move wise) as Yau but my times dropped about 30 seconds in one week when I stepped from Yau to Hoya.


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## Logiqx (Jul 24, 2015)

Selkie said:


> Have you tried Yau method mate? Just out of interest. I found it had a profound impact on my times. Love your slow turning on these solves... #turnslow
> 
> Should be trending on the forums



Funny thing... I do use Yau but I almost always use the half centres approach during L4C. I barley recognise my 4x4 solves when played back on video, lol.

Maybe I'll post it in the video section...


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## Selkie (Jul 24, 2015)

I have to confess never even tried Hoya, I'll take a look. This was a 4x4 average in the last week of mine:-


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## Logiqx (Jul 24, 2015)

Selkie said:


> I have to confess never even tried Hoya, I'll take a look. This was a 4x4 average in the last week of mine



Nice. I see you are a blue cross man!

Have you tried doing your last cross edge with the cross still on the left? You're looking underneath and around the cube at that point of the solve when your cross is on the bottom.

I think the best solvers can adapt and do the last cross edge on the left or the bottom according to the case. I only do it on the left at the moment...


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## MarcelP (Jul 24, 2015)

Selkie said:


> I have to confess never even tried Hoya, I'll take a look. This was a 4x4 average in the last week of mine:-
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i5K91x7l9Rg



Nice! That looks a lot faster. I tried to film a few 4X4 solves but they where too bad to show LOL...


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## Selkie (Jul 24, 2015)

Logiqx said:


> Nice. I see you are a blue cross man!
> 
> Have you tried doing your last cross edge with the cross still on the left? You're looking underneath and around the cube at that point of the solve when your cross is on the bottom.
> 
> I think the best solvers can adapt and do the last cross edge on the left or the bottom according to the case. I only do it on the left at the moment...



I am indeed a blue cross man. It is a pity up to about sub 25 on 3x3 I was opposite neutral with green but favored blue more and more so it has now got to the stage where it has to be a very special green cross to tempt me (2 in 100 maybe). I would like to get that opposite neurality back.

I gratefully receive any advise on all four cross edges. They are my 4x4 nemesis! My lookahead on the first three cross edges is poor at best and a complete shambles at worst and yes I do feel I lose a lot of time on that last cross edge. I will try some solves as you suggest :tu



MarcelP said:


> Nice! That looks a lot faster. I tried to film a few 4X4 solves but they where too bad to show LOL...



Thank you sir  Have to admit there are videos I have taken, watched and deleted


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## Logiqx (Jul 24, 2015)

Selkie said:


> Have to admit there are videos I have taken, watched and deleted



There are videos I've taken, never watched and deleted.


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## MarcelP (Jul 24, 2015)

Logiqx said:


> There are videos I've taken, never watched and deleted.



Yeah, I watch only when I get good times. Do you remember btw when you showed that ultra cool video with a sub 19 Ao12? I said my next goal in life is to do that too  I just filmed two different Ao12 sub 19  (Thanks to Chris' slowturning motivation).. I will upload later


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## MarcelP (Jul 24, 2015)

Yeah, I am becomming cooler by the day..



Spoiler



Generated By csTimer on 2015-7-24
solves/total: 14/14

single
best: 15.96
worst: 23.77

mean of 3
current: 18.42 (σ = 1.25)
best: 17.32 (σ = 1.36)

avg of 5
current: 18.05 (σ = 0.68)
best: 18.05 (σ = 0.68)

avg of 12
current: 18.93 (σ = 1.31)
best: 18.89 (σ = 1.27)

Average: 18.90 (σ = 1.20)
Mean: 19.04

Time List:
1. 18.42 D2 B' L2 F' R2 B R2 F U2 B2 L2 D' L F L2 D' R' D2 B R U
2. 19.14 U F2 U2 L2 D F U B U2 L' F2 D2 R B2 R2 U2 L' B2 U2
3. 20.62 B R2 L U' R' L2 F2 B' U' F R2 B2 R2 U L2 U' F2 L2 B2 U2 B2
4. 18.74 B2 D' R2 U B L' D2 R' U B' R2 U2 R2 L2 U2 F2 U L2 U' L2 U2
5. 18.09 D' F2 D' L2 D' R2 B2 L2 D' L2 R2 B L B F2 U2 F' R2 U' L2
6. 17.29 L B R2 F U2 F U2 L2 R2 B' F D' F L U' L2 U B2 U
7. 21.17 B2 U' F2 L2 U2 B2 L2 D' L2 U2 B2 L F' U' B D2 R' D B' L B
8. 19.43 F D2 F' L2 U2 F U2 B2 L2 F' D2 U F' R F U' L R' F' D2
9. 23.77 R2 U' F2 U B2 U L2 F2 R2 B2 U2 R' D2 B' D' U' F' L' U2 R U
10. 18.68 U2 L2 D' R2 U' L2 B2 D2 F2 U2 B R2 F2 L D' R2 F U' F
11. 15.96 U2 L2 R2 D' R2 U' R2 B2 D' L2 B' U2 R D R2 B U2 R D U'
12. 17.33 R B2 U2 L U2 R2 F2 L' B2 U F D' B D B' D' F2 L U
13. 19.78 L' D2 B2 R B2 L' F2 L B2 F2 L2 B' L B2 D2 U B' L D R2 B'
14. 18.15 U2 B2 D2 L2 B' D2 B' R2 B' F' D2 R U2 B U' L' U2 L D' L' R'


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## Selkie (Jul 24, 2015)

MarcelP said:


> Yeah, I watch only when I get good times. Do you remember btw when you showed that ultra cool video with a sub 19 Ao12? I said my next goal in life is to do that too  I just filmed two different Ao12 sub 19  (Thanks to Chris' slowturning motivation).. I will upload later



Haha, awesome stuff mate, can't wait to see them.

I think that slow turning 12 had such a dramatic effect on me. Not only did I break the 15s AO12 which has been a very long term goal but in the same AO100 I actually had three AO12s which were sub 15.11 (previous PB)

I believe more and more that mixing things up and solving in different ways is a key to improvement. Breaking that automated cycle and leading to you thinking more when solving. I cannot wait for a couple more Ao100's this weekend but not today...

... Today is big cubes day. I really do need to try and get my 7x7 to a stage where I have a chance of making the mean cut at ABHC next month.


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## Selkie (Jul 24, 2015)

MarcelP said:


> Yeah, I am becomming cooler by the day..]



Lovely average, great stuff :tu


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## Logiqx (Jul 24, 2015)

MarcelP said:


> Yeah, I watch only when I get good times. Do you remember btw when you showed that ultra cool video with a sub 19 Ao12? I said my next goal in life is to do that too  I just filmed two different Ao12 sub 19  (Thanks to Chris' slowturning motivation).. I will upload later



Yes, I remember that... congrats on achieving one of your life goals. 

I just did an OH Ao100. It didn't really include a fast Ao5 or Ao12 but the Ao100 was a PB at 36.64. It also allowed me to practice some of my new OLLs during real solves. My left hand is aching a bit now!


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## MarcelP (Jul 24, 2015)

Logiqx said:


> My left hand is aching a bit now!



I did a few yesterday and today to get back into OH. After 5 solves my muscles cramp up  No way on hell I could do 100 OH's... Great score man.


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## Selkie (Jul 24, 2015)

Thats a great OH average. I have all but given up on OH. I did get down to about 50 average, then got a 43.x average in comp and just got worse. Don't even think I will do OH at ABHC next month.

Been doing 5x5 centers this evening. Started out at about ~43s average and now down to sub 40. Loving the Huanchuang that arrived yesterday but it is white and I don't like solving on white, hopefully the black replacement will be here in the morning. Such a lovely 5x5. Whenever I try and push TPS on 5x5 I lock up but this cube is so forgiving


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## Logiqx (Jul 25, 2015)

Thanks guys. I think it is probably my best event right now.

Full OLL + PLL seem to have made my times rather more consistent.

Sup-40 is now a disappointing solve.


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## Logiqx (Jul 26, 2015)

Logiqx said:


> I just did an OH Ao100. It didn't really include a fast Ao5 or Ao12...



Fixed my Ao5 and Ao12 today... 30.93 / 32.46. Slightly improved the big averages as well - sub-36 Ao100.


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## MarcelP (Jul 26, 2015)

Logiqx said:


> Fixed my Ao5 and Ao12 today... 30.93 / 32.46. Slightly improved the big averages as well - sub-36 Ao100.



Wow.. nice job man. I think your 2H times will start to look bad at one point... LOL.

How about a full step 10 again? I was on fire 

x2//inspection L' R B' R2'// cross (5) L' U' L R' U' R //1st (6) y' U' R' U R // 2nd (5) U' R U R' // 3rd (4) U' L' U L U' L' U' L // 4th (8) U f' L' U' L U f //OLL (7) U x R D' R U2 R' D R U2 R2 //PLL (11) //46 moves in 10.94 = 4.2 TPS


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## Logiqx (Jul 26, 2015)

I'm back to 2H practice tomorrow.


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## Selkie (Jul 26, 2015)

Nice solve Marcel. Pretty busy weekend with not much cubing time with a Volkswagen festival yesterday and shopping today but did find time for some 5x5 and this was the best of the short session this morning:-


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## Logiqx (Jul 26, 2015)

MarcelP said:


> How about a full step 10 again? I was on fire



Blimey. You are on fire... another 10!



Selkie said:


> Nice solve Marcel. Pretty busy weekend with not much cubing time with a Volkswagen festival yesterday and shopping today but did find time for some 5x5 and this was the best of the short session this morning



Nice time. Nearly sub-2.


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## MarcelP (Jul 26, 2015)

Selkie said:


> Nice solve Marcel. Pretty busy weekend with not much cubing time with a Volkswagen festival yesterday and shopping today but did find time for some 5x5 and this was the best of the short session this morning:-
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NmZRrMRoHsw



Awesome! I dare not to turn that fast on my 5X5 (AoChuang). It would explode in 10 seconds  LOL... I think you are fine in making it full 5 solves in competition without worrying exeeding the cutoff.


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## MarcelP (Jul 26, 2015)

Over the last two weeks I did about 20 untimed solves on my Megaminx and timed myself today. It was 8.54.. LOL sub 9.. It was pretty good solve but I am very disappointed with the time.. Maybe it will pick up since I enjoy solving it quite a bit.

And I learned keyhole method on the Pyraminx. It is so much better than my LBL method. First Ao12 was 22 secs. That's allready faster than when I ever got with LBL.. I imagion reaching sub 15 will be no problem once recogition of the last 3 egdes will kick in. Pyra is fun!


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## Logiqx (Jul 26, 2015)

MarcelP said:


> Over the last two weeks I did about 20 untimed solves on my Megaminx and timed myself today. It was 8.54.. LOL sub 9.. It was pretty good solve but I am very disappointed with the time.. Maybe it will pick up since I enjoy solving it quite a bit.
> 
> And I learned keyhole method on the Pyraminx. It is so much better than my LBL method. First Ao12 was 22 secs. That's allready faster than when I ever got with LBL.. I imagion reaching sub 15 will be no problem once recogition of the last 3 egdes will kick in. Pyra is fun!



Nice. I've never timed myself on mega but then again I've only done half a dozen solves.

Good to hear you are enjoying Pyra now... race you to sub-10.


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## Selkie (Jul 27, 2015)

Mega and Pyra are two puzzles I have never really concentrated on. Think I might give them more attention after ABHC. I do like mega but with a comp pb of 4:40+ and an overall pb of 3:40+ I have not really done much to improve that.

Have to say I had an SS 5x5 which over the course of a few years with tight gripping and inaccurate turning was broken beautifully. It was even borrowed by some very fast UK cubers for later round of 5x5 at comp. Unfortunately that was lost and I have another SS5x5 that I was intending to do the Florian mod to. However I ordered a Moyu Huangshuang but ordered white by mistake, I have reordered a black one but this solve was on white (on which I have very bad recognition). Looking forward to the black one arriving as the cube feels lovely.


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## Logiqx (Jul 30, 2015)

I've had a few days away from 4x4 but I did about a dozen solves last night and got a 1:08.75 single. 

The rest of the session wasn't so great as I wasn't at all focused but the single was a big PB; exactly 8 seconds.

The funny thing is that I was not really focused during that PB single. I was thinking about something work related which had put me in a pretty bad mood!

I seem to remember L4C being easy and so were the cross edges but other than that it was just a slick 3x3 stage with easy OLL and PLL but no parity fixes.

Edit: New Ao50 - 1:32.03. Is it just me or is Ao50 really tiring?


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## mark49152 (Jul 31, 2015)

Logiqx said:


> I've had a few days away from 4x4 but I did about a dozen solves last night and got a 1:08.75 single.


Nice one! Funny, but I also got a 4x4 PB single yesterday - 1:08.87. You just beat me . And yes I find 4x4 ao50 tiring too, mainly because of my mini AoSu - it's slow and no matter what I do to it I cannot seem to speed it up without making it pop or catch more. The extra friction tires my hands way more than 5x5.

Speaking of 5x5, I have been playing with L2E again. Your guide (http://mikeg.me.uk/cubing/Big/L2E.pdf) is awesome, by far the best I've found. Do you use all these? Because I use Hoya I have to restore the cross after edges, and I have been trying to figure out a systematic way to do that before L2E such that I can reduce to a smaller, simpler set of cases.

This week I got a Stackmat and have been practising with that and an inspection timer. It's harder than I expected. I keep forgetting to start the timer, or trying to stop it with one hand phone-style . The worst thing though is my times. I thought they would suffer by <1 second for pick up and drop, but my 3x3 is a whole 3 seconds slower and I have no idea why. I don't feel slower and there's no way I'm picking up or stopping that slowly, but after 150 solves I'm still averaging ~20.7. I can't figure it out. I even ran my timers side by side to see if my phone timer had been lying to me and exaggerating my times for the last 18 months  Anyone had a similar experience?


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## MarcelP (Jul 31, 2015)

Logiqx said:


> I was thinking about something work related which had put me in a pretty bad mood!



Sometimes when I am pissed off at something from work my times are great  Dunno why.



mark49152 said:


> This week I got a Stackmat and have been practising with that and an inspection timer. It's harder than I expected. I keep forgetting to start the timer, or trying to stop it with one hand phone-style . The worst thing though is my times. I thought they would suffer by <1 second for pick up and drop, but my 3x3 is a whole 3 seconds slower and I have no idea why. I don't feel slower and there's no way I'm picking up or stopping that slowly, but after 150 solves I'm still averaging ~20.7. I can't figure it out. I even ran my timers side by side to see if my phone timer had been lying to me and exaggerating my times for the last 18 months  Anyone had a similar experience?



Yeah, I know exactly why. I have had same experience.. I have told you more than a year ago that I had same problem. When you hold a cube in your hand and start the timer it is easier for your brain to plan the cross. You grip the cube the way that is easy for the solution. When you put the cube down and have to wait a few secs (for the light to turn green) you might have forgotten the solution allready. Also stopping the timer with two hands is slower than with just one hand. Because you can finish the last move with one hand and use the other to go to the timer. When I had this problem I started to put down the cube in every solve. Even without a stackmat timer. Most fast cuber (like Feliks) do this. It will train you to become used to stackmat timing. My times got back to normal in less than a few weeks. So no worries for you, just continue this.

EDIT: Oh guys, congrats on the 4X4 PB's! I heard the Cyclone Boys G4 4X4 is also pretty good. And some take it as their main over AoSu.


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## Logiqx (Jul 31, 2015)

mark49152 said:


> Nice one! Funny, but I also got a 4x4 PB single yesterday - 1:08.87. You just beat me .



Funny how we got such close times recently... mine was pure luck. You're well ahead of me on averages.



mark49152 said:


> Speaking of 5x5, I have been playing with L2E again. Your guide (http://mikeg.me.uk/cubing/Big/L2E.pdf) is awesome, by far the best I've found. Do you use all these?



I haven't done 5x5 in a looong time but I knew all of the non-parity algs and used them regularly. I think I only used the OLL parity and double parity algs from the second page. I may learn them all eventually but identifying the cases and finding nice algs was just for a bit of fun at the time. No other guides include all of the cases and I had to figure out the probabilities as you will recall. 



mark49152 said:


> This week I got a Stackmat and have been practising with that and an inspection timer. It's harder than I expected. I keep forgetting to start the timer, or trying to stop it with one hand phone-style . The worst thing though is my times. I thought they would suffer by <1 second for pick up and drop, but my 3x3 is a whole 3 seconds slower and I have no idea why. I don't feel slower and there's no way I'm picking up or stopping that slowly, but after 150 solves I'm still averaging ~20.7. I can't figure it out. I even ran my timers side by side to see if my phone timer had been lying to me and exaggerating my times for the last 18 months  Anyone had a similar experience?



Have you tried starting a session with your normal timer and once performing normally, trying the Stackmat?


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## mark49152 (Jul 31, 2015)

Logiqx said:


> Have you tried starting a session with your normal timer and once performing normally, trying the Stackmat?


No I should try that. It could just be that I'm having a crap spell.

Following what Marcel said, I tried an experiment. I did an ao12 of just sledgehammer, with and without stackmat. I chose sledgehammer because I do F' with left hand so need to get both hands in the correct position and make turns with both hands. With stackmat I did normal pick up and put down. Without stackmat I started the timer with both hands already on the cube in correct position, and I stopped with right hand only, allowing it to come off the cube before the left hand had finished the F'.

Ao12 with stackmat was 1.14, without stackmat was 0.50. So I remain convinced that pick up and put down should not be costing me 3 seconds on full solves. Also I haven't noticed that my crosses are unusually slow. There must be something else going on - or maybe I'm just off form.


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## MarcelP (Jul 31, 2015)

mark49152 said:


> or maybe I'm just off form.



Yeah, that could be the case too. I have regular bad sessions which are 2 seconds slower than normal. Better experiment would have been normal solve Ao12 with phone and normal solve Ao12 with stackmat.


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## mark49152 (Jul 31, 2015)

MarcelP said:


> Better experiment would have been normal solve Ao12 with phone and normal solve Ao12 with stackmat.


I tried that of course. The experiment was to estimate how much time a stackmat pick up and put down should theoretically cost me.

On phone/sofa I'm about 19 which is a bit off but not unusual. On stackmat today I'm about 20.3 so not such a huge gap. 

Thoughts on what could be disrupting my flow on the mat: lighting at the desk, posture in a different chair, or just general lack of composure as I'm new to solving that way...


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## MarcelP (Jul 31, 2015)

mark49152 said:


> I tried that of course. The experiment was to estimate how much time a stackmat pick up and put down should theoretically cost me.
> 
> On phone/sofa I'm about 19 which is a bit off but not unusual. On stackmat today I'm about 20.3 so not such a huge gap.
> 
> Thoughts on what could be disrupting my flow on the mat: lighting at the desk, posture in a different chair, or just general lack of composure as I'm new to solving that way...



The phone scrambles could also be easier


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## mark49152 (Jul 31, 2015)

MarcelP said:


> The phone scrambles could also be easier


Good thinking, but no cigar. I used the phone for stackmat scrambles, so maybe they're both easy. Actually I configured my timer app to give me a 12 second countdown timer. On the fart sound, I stop inspecting and start timing. When using phone/sofa I don't time inspection, so that could be a factor, although I rarely seem to need the whole 12 seconds so not a major factor.


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## chtiger (Aug 2, 2015)

I hear this is where the old people hang out. I just did my first comp at US Nationals, and I don't think I'd call it fun, but it was an interesting experience. I felt out of place and overwhelmed by the number of people. I failed miserably at 3x3, DNF'd first solve because timer didn't start, then screwed up PLL on 2 of my 4 solves (this happens maybe 1 in 150 at home). My blind results weren't good, but I was happy just to not DNF. So how was your guys' first comp experience? (I'm not gonna read 470 pages to see if it's been discussed already). 

Encouraged by the vids posted here, I should be able to get sub-20 avg. I know what I need to improve, but not sure how to improve it. Wasn't planning on doing another comp, but don't want to quit with a 45 avg (yikes). So not sure what to do now, keep practicing 3x3 and blind, practice another event, or another hobby.


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## MarcelP (Aug 2, 2015)

chtiger said:


> I hear this is where the old people hang out. I just did my first comp at US Nationals, and I don't think I'd call it fun, but it was an interesting experience. I felt out of place and overwhelmed by the number of people. I failed miserably at 3x3, DNF'd first solve because timer didn't start, then screwed up PLL on 2 of my 4 solves (this happens maybe 1 in 150 at home). My blind results weren't good, but I was happy just to not DNF. So how was your guys' first comp experience? (I'm not gonna read 470 pages to see if it's been discussed already).
> 
> Encouraged by the vids posted here, I should be able to get sub-20 avg. I know what I need to improve, but not sure how to improve it. Wasn't planning on doing another comp, but don't want to quit with a 45 avg (yikes). So not sure what to do now, keep practicing 3x3 and blind, practice another event, or another hobby.



Oh man, that sucks. I bet if you would have made a nice average the whole 'experience' would have so much different. I had a crap first average on my first competition. And on my second... LOL. In fact I have never had a good avarage. I once had a 25 average when I was averaging at home. Now these days I am happy with good singles. If I break my single PB on a competition I had a great day. And competitions are more about talking to people. Not really about times. I care much more about my averages at home. Competition is too much of a short moment in which you can be better than normal or suck major .


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## mark49152 (Aug 3, 2015)

chtiger said:


> So how was your guys' first comp experience?


Well, funny you should ask that, because I went to my first comp this weekend (Glorious North). I thoroughly enjoyed it. I was the oldest competitor by quite a margin, and when I first arrived I thought I was going to feel out of place, but that passed after I had talked to a few people and settled in. It was great fun to meet like-minded people and talk about the hobby I enjoy so much, since I don't know anyone else who does it. Glorious North was a smaller event, ~50 competitors, and I can imagine at a larger event like US Nats it would have been a different and probably more difficult experience.

As for results, I went with no expectations or goals, and did better than I thought I might, so wasn't disappointed. Here's how it went, in chronological order.

*4x4:* For my first competitive event I decided to not even think about speed, and just try to get it solved without screwing up. My hands were still a bit shaky though. There was an average cut of 1:30 so I was delighted to get a 1:27 on the second solve, so I could continue. After that I relaxed a bit and even got a 1:14 best, which would be a good time for me even at home. Average 1:29.
*5x5:* Little hope of getting anywhere the 2:30 average cut, so I wasn't too nervous, and got a 3:03 best which would be pretty good for me even at home. Would have been sub-3 if I hadn't mangled the PLL.
*2x2:* Came off the rails early on day two. Although I got a couple of 6s, there were also a 9 and 10, and a shocker of a DNF - screwed up PBL three times over. The first two times I started solving the cube again. On the third screw-up I just hit the timer. It was already on 20-something and a DNF on the score sheet would be less embarrassing . Final average 8.95. Actually I found 2x2 the hardest event because there's just no time to regain composure.
*3x3:* Tried to stay calm for the main event and was pleased to get three sub-20s in the first 4 solves, including a 17.05. I was in with a real chance of a sub-20 average and that made me nervous for the final solve. I didn't screw it up, but got a bit shaky and came in at 24 for an average of 20.69. Was gutted to miss out on the second round by 0.02 seconds!

So all in all, a good weekend, and even if my results had sucked I think I'd still be happy and up for doing it again. Maybe you could try a smaller comp and see if that works better for you? And if comps are not for you, it doesn't matter, as long as you're still enjoying the hobby.


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## Logiqx (Aug 3, 2015)

Congrats on your results Mark. Shame to miss the second round of 3x3 by such a small margin.

Did you get many parities on the 4x4?


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## mark49152 (Aug 3, 2015)

Logiqx said:


> Congrats on your results Mark. Shame to miss the second round of 3x3 by such a small margin.
> 
> Did you get many parities on the 4x4?



Cheers Mike. Yes the first four were OLL parity. Can't remember about PLL but at least two. There was one solve where I had an adjacent PLL parity and didn't spot it until I was throwing the cube down - nearly a DNF .


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## Logiqx (Aug 3, 2015)

mark49152 said:


> Cheers Mike. Yes the first four were OLL parity. Can't remember about PLL but at least two. There was one solve where I had an adjacent PLL parity and didn't spot it until I was throwing the cube down - nearly a DNF .



Yeah. I have to be careful that I don't recognise PLLs from just 2 sides on the 4x4. I think I make that mistake most often when I think I see an EPLL and don't check another side for parity.


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## MarcelP (Aug 3, 2015)

mark49152 said:


> Well, funny you should ask that, because I went to my first comp this weekend (Glorious North). I thoroughly enjoyed it. I was the oldest competitor by quite a margin, and when I first arrived I thought I was going to feel out of place, but that passed after I had talked to a few people and settled in. It was great fun to meet like-minded people and talk about the hobby I enjoy so much, since I don't know anyone else who does it. Glorious North was a smaller event, ~50 competitors, and I can imagine at a larger event like US Nats it would have been a different and probably more difficult experience.
> 
> As for results, I went with no expectations or goals, and did better than I thought I might, so wasn't disappointed. Here's how it went, in chronological order.
> 
> ...



Awesome Mark! I really really hope I can get a 3X3 average around the 20 secs. At home no problem  But with shacky competition hand a whole different story. Nice to see you managed to do well! I bet if you had gone to a 2nd round with less nerves the result might have been even better. Also good job on the 4X4 and 5X5. I did not even register for that. 



My 5th solve of today

https://alg.cubing.net/?setup=R2_U_...-_//_PLL_(13)_
//59_MOVES_IN_12.84_=_4.5_tps


Unfortunate rest of Ao50 did blew.. It was even sup 20.. Bleh!


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## chtiger (Aug 3, 2015)

MarcelP said:


> Oh man, that sucks. I bet if you would have made a nice average the whole 'experience' would have so much different. I had a crap first average on my first competition. And on my second... LOL. In fact I have never had a good avarage. I once had a 25 average when I was averaging at home. Now these days I am happy with good singles. If I break my single PB on a competition I had a great day. And competitions are more about talking to people. Not really about times. I care much more about my averages at home. Competition is too much of a short moment in which you can be better than normal or suck major .



Yeah, a decent 3x3 average would have made things better. At least I would have met my modest competition goals of sub 30 avg, and any success on 3bld and mbld. I still enjoyed things overall. It was worth the trip just to watch some of the best in the world, and I was also there for a mini-vacation to Hilton Head.
Hopefully you can get that elusive sub 20 avg in a comp. You do plenty good enough at home. I guess the little bit of nervousness doesn't go away even after several comps.



mark49152 said:


> Well, funny you should ask that, because I went to my first comp this weekend (Glorious North). I thoroughly enjoyed it. I was the oldest competitor by quite a margin, and when I first arrived I thought I was going to feel out of place, but that passed after I had talked to a few people and settled in. It was great fun to meet like-minded people and talk about the hobby I enjoy so much, since I don't know anyone else who does it. Glorious North was a smaller event, ~50 competitors, and I can imagine at a larger event like US Nats it would have been a different and probably more difficult experience.
> 
> As for results, I went with no expectations or goals, and did better than I thought I might, so wasn't disappointed. Here's how it went, in chronological order.
> 
> ...



Great that you had such a good time, and got pretty good results too. I definitely think I would be more comfortable and more sociable at a smaller comp. I'll probably try a smaller local comp next year. I'd probably even go back to US Nats if it ever comes back nearby to me.


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## MarcelP (Aug 7, 2015)

I know some people hate the Gans 356 and some love it. I have three of them and it has been my main for a month now. I am truely convinced about this cube. It is very forgiving, fast and controllable and it has the perfect size. (Meiying too small, HuaLong too big). It only takes some skill to set the cube up correct. I have them set up like this:

The screws in the corners: tighten them untill completely tied, then unscrew one and half turn.
Centers: I have them little more tightened than factory tentions so a tiny bit of metal is sticking out. It cuts now no 45 degrees (with normal force), but only 40.

This set up makes the Gans 356 perfect. Really really nice. Here are some sample solves. My first solves of the day:



Spoiler



Generated By csTimer on 2015-8-7
solves/total: 6/6

single
best: 16.76
worst: 19.55

mean of 3
current: 17.73 (σ = 1.21)
best: 17.73 (σ = 1.21)

avg of 5
current: 18.54 (σ = 1.03)
best: 18.54 (σ = 1.03)

Average: 18.62 (σ = 0.86)
Mean: 18.46

Time List:
1. 18.84 U' B' R' U' L2 F L2 U F U2 L2 B2 R2 B2 D R2 D' B2 U' B2 L
2. 19.19 U' R2 F2 L2 B2 D' L2 D B2 D2 U' L U' L R2 F' U' B R' U'
3. 19.55 U2 F2 R' F2 L2 D2 F2 U2 F2 L' R B' U2 F L U F' D' L2 F
4. 19.08 U' R' F2 L' D2 F2 L' U2 R2 D2 F2 U2 F D B' D U L2 F2 L' B
5. 16.76 U2 L' U2 F2 L U F' R2 B L' B2 R' U2 F2 U2 L' U2 F2 R
6. 17.35 B' R2 F2 L2 B2 U2 L2 D' U2 B2 R' D2 L U2 L B' D' L U2


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## Schmidt (Aug 7, 2015)

How many 3x3's do you own?


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## Schmidt (Aug 7, 2015)

I asked 2 hours ago, are you still counting?


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## MarcelP (Aug 7, 2015)

Schmidt said:


> I asked 2 hours ago, are you still counting?



LOL.. I think about 100 or so..


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## MarcelP (Aug 8, 2015)

moralsh said:


> I got it last week but I think I like the aochuang a bit more. the feeling is similar to the yuxin 4x4 and 3x3, very loose cubes that sometimes go faster than I would like to. Value for money? Absolutely. I also ordered the stickerless huachuang but I haven't tried it yet.



I got the Cyclone Boys 5X5 two days ago. I love it. Never will use the AoChuang again. People complain about locks, but compared to my SS 5x5 it never locks. Compared to the AoChuang.. yeah it locks more... but it is completely neglitable because it is so nice in easy turning... Mine is not loose btw.. But then again I might like loose bigger cubes. I prefer my Yuxin 4X4 over my AuSu.


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## Logiqx (Aug 9, 2015)

Nice solves Marcel. I'm not so sure about the third one though. 

You must get to know the feel of more cubes than 99.9% of the community. How do you store them all or have you built a bigger house using cubes instead of bricks? 

Edit: HuaLong is my favourite for 2H and mini WeiLong for OH. I haven't tried the Gans for 2H or mini Zhanchi for OH which are other popular mains.


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## MarcelP (Aug 9, 2015)

Logiqx said:


> Nice solves Marcel. I'm not so sure about the third one though.


LOL, wrong PLL.. and then when I try to correct it, again I perform the wrong PLL.. 



Logiqx said:


> You must get to know the feel of more cubes than 99.9% of the community.



Yeah, buying cubes is big part of the fun for me. I have a big box where I stock all the cubes. I give some away now and then to people who do not cube but seem interested. 

If you really have not tried the Gans 356 I would think you will love it for OH. It is the most forgiving cube there is. But then again, you might hate it like some do  I like HuaLong a lot but do not get same times as with the Gans 356. Too many lockups.


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## mark49152 (Aug 9, 2015)

MarcelP said:


> Awesome Mark! I really really hope I can get a 3X3 average around the 20 secs. At home no problem  But with shacky competition hand a whole different story. Nice to see you managed to do well! I bet if you had gone to a 2nd round with less nerves the result might have been even better. Also good job on the 4X4 and 5X5. I did not even register for that.


Cheers. Yeah I was glad I went to the comp and will definitely try to go to more. The nerves were definitely there, but also I think I had much better focus than when I'm solving at home, so it worked both ways. My only goal was to not utterly screw up and embarrass myself and it was a relief to achieve that goal 

I had a look at your results and you haven't competed yet this year - are you planning to?

I was inspired by the BLD I saw, including Zak Walters' 1:01 3BLD, and Lorenzo Poli storming through the execution of a 15/15 MBLD. Awesome. Since the comp I've done nothing but BLD practice, and if I make it to ABHC in 3 weeks' time, my goal there is a 3BLD success.


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## MarcelP (Aug 10, 2015)

mark49152 said:


> I had a look at your results and you haven't competed yet this year - are you planning to?



Yeah, I am planning on Dutch Nationals this year. Hoping for a sub 20 average  Although times where very important to me before now I enjoy the competition more just for being there.

Did you get BLD successes already? I suck too much at BLD. So I gave up..


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## mark49152 (Aug 10, 2015)

MarcelP said:


> Did you get BLD successes already? I suck too much at BLD. So I gave up..


Not yet. I'm learning step by step. I can solve corners BLD, with about 3/4 success rate, and am working on edges now. I can just about solve edges with M2 sighted, and once I feel I have all the algs down, I will learn the letters and memo for edges. For the last few solves I have memorized corners, then solved edges sighted, then closed eyes and solved corners without looking at them again, to test whether I can recall the corner memo after doing something else.

Yeah I agree about comp times - official PBs will always be nice but I care more about my times at home. Comps are just for fun. For BLD I just want an official success and don't care about the time.


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## Logiqx (Aug 10, 2015)

MarcelP said:


> If you really have not tried the Gans 356 I would think you will love it for OH. It is the most forgiving cube there is. But then again, you might hate it like some do  I like HuaLong a lot but do not get same times as with the Gans 356. Too many lockups.



I'll certainly try the 356 at some time but I'm in no particular hurry. I don't suffer lockups on the HuaLong which could be in part be related to differences in turning style. The mini MoYu cubes that I've tried (54.5mm) are a great size for OH but the mini AoLong was too unstable for me when doing OH. The mini WeiLong V2 doesn't have those stability issues but still turns really nicely and is comfy to hold / turn during OH. I don't feel like the cubes are slowing me down at the moment so it's me that needs improvement. 

3BLD is on my bucket list... I might start later this year or some time in the new year.


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## MarcelP (Aug 10, 2015)

Logiqx said:


> 3BLD is on my bucket list... I might start later this year or some time in the new year.



When I am sub 10 on 3X3 then I might look into it again


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## Logiqx (Aug 10, 2015)

MarcelP said:


> When I am sub 10 on 3X3 then I might look into it again



LOL. I saw your response on Tapatalk and when I saw "when am sub-10", I thought you were referring to Pyra. 

How are you getting on with the pointy puzzle btw? I saw you've posted a keyhole video...


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## MarcelP (Aug 10, 2015)

Logiqx said:


> LOL. I saw your response on Tapatalk and when I saw "when am sub-10", I thought you were referring to Pyra.
> 
> How are you getting on with the pointy puzzle btw? I saw you've posted a keyhole video...



Yeah, I figured I could help other people learning the method easily with my video.. I like Keyhole method now. I do not know how fast I am because I do not time myself.  I will probably use it on my next competition.

EDIT: for the ones who missed it:


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## Logiqx (Aug 10, 2015)

Maybe you should time yourself for an hour... Ao50 / Ao100 can be really quick for puzzles like 2x2 and Pyra.


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## MarcelP (Aug 10, 2015)

Logiqx said:


> Maybe you should time yourself for an hour... Ao50 / Ao100 can be really quick for puzzles like 2x2 and Pyra.



Don't worry mate.. you are much faster..  Did an Ao12 for you because I am not yet used to speedsolving this puzzle:


Spoiler



Gegenereerd door csTimer op 2015-8-10
solves/totaal: 12/12

enkele
Beste: 16.58
Slechtste: 24.08

mean van 3
Actuele: 18.86 (σ = 1.72)
Beste: 16.99 (σ = 0.49)

avg of 5
Actuele: 18.66 (σ = 1.38)
Beste: 18.10 (σ = 1.58)

avg of 12
Actuele: 19.37 (σ = 1.99)
Beste: 19.37 (σ = 1.99)

Gemiddelde: 19.37 (s = 1.99)
Mean: 19.53

Lijst met tijden:
1. 18.70 L' U' R' L U' L R L' l r b u 
2. 20.53 U L U' L R L' B' R l' r b 
3. 23.44 B' L' R' L' U' R' L' R' l r b u' 
4. 24.08 B' U' L U' R' B' L' U l' r 
5. 19.88 U L U' L B U' R' B' U' l u' 
6. 17.54 U B L' U R' B L R l r 
7. 16.58 L' B' U L U B' R B L' r b' 
8. 16.87 L B L R' B L R B' L' l' b' 
9. 20.22 L U L U' L' B R U' l r u 
10. 20.81 U B' R' B L' R' L R' l' r b 
11. 18.17 U R B U L' U' L' B r u 
12. 17.59 U B' R' B' L B' R B' r' b' u'

Pretty cool for me though... 4 seconds faster than my best offical average


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## Logiqx (Aug 10, 2015)

MarcelP said:


> Pretty cool for me though... 4 seconds faster than my best official average



Cool. You'll improve as you get more familiar with your last layer algs and learn to plan more during inspection.


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## chtiger (Aug 10, 2015)

mark49152 said:


> Not yet. I'm learning step by step. I can solve corners BLD, with about 3/4 success rate, and am working on edges now. I can just about solve edges with M2 sighted, and once I feel I have all the algs down, I will learn the letters and memo for edges. For the last few solves I have memorized corners, then solved edges sighted, then closed eyes and solved corners without looking at them again, to test whether I can recall the corner memo after doing something else.
> 
> Yeah I agree about comp times - official PBs will always be nice but I care more about my times at home. Comps are just for fun. For BLD I just want an official success and don't care about the time.



It's probably too late to suggest OP edges to you since you almost have M2 learned, but for the others here, if your main goal is to get a success, then I'd recommend OP edges instead of M2. It's much easier to learn, understand, and execute, in my opinion.


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## Logiqx (Aug 10, 2015)

chtiger said:


> It's probably too late to suggest OP edges to you since you almost have M2 learned, but for the others here, if your main goal is to get a success, then I'd recommend OP edges instead of M2. It's much easier to learn, understand, and execute, in my opinion.



Thanks for the tip. When I eventually get around to 3BLD, I'll start with OP edges and corners.


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## chtiger (Aug 10, 2015)

Logiqx said:


> Thanks for the tip. When I eventually get around to 3BLD, I'll start with OP edges and corners.



I should've mentioned I was (maybe wrongly) assuming that the other posters here know the CFOP PLL algorithms. If you use Roux or another method or don't know the PLL's, then that would add 4 longish algorithms to learning OP edges. If you already know T, Ja, Jb, and Ra PLL algorithms, then there are no algorithms to learn for OP edges.


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## mark49152 (Aug 10, 2015)

chtiger said:


> It's probably too late to suggest OP edges to you since you almost have M2 learned, but for the others here, if your main goal is to get a success, then I'd recommend OP edges instead of M2. It's much easier to learn, understand, and execute, in my opinion.


Thanks for the tip. OP edges are what I used last time I tried BLD a year or two ago, because they seemed easier. This time I took Noah's advice and went for M2. There are a few new algs and a bit of complication around the M slice edges, but nothing too challenging, and it does save a lot of moves, so I can see why he recommends people jump straight into it. Once you've learned OP corners and grasped the general principle, M2 builds on that without being wildly more difficult. I certainly wouldn't discourage anyone from looking at it. (Noah's tutorials are awesome, by the way.)


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## chtiger (Aug 11, 2015)

mark49152 said:


> Thanks for the tip. OP edges are what I used last time I tried BLD a year or two ago, because they seemed easier. This time I took Noah's advice and went for M2. There are a few new algs and a bit of complication around the M slice edges, but nothing too challenging, and it does save a lot of moves, so I can see why he recommends people jump straight into it. Once you've learned OP corners and grasped the general principle, M2 builds on that without being wildly more difficult. I certainly wouldn't discourage anyone from looking at it. (Noah's tutorials are awesome, by the way.)



You're right. I shouldn't have said OP edges was much easier, but it is without a doubt easier, assuming you already know PLLs, and also assuming you first learn and understand OP corners. Once you understand OP corners, there is really nothing new to learn or understand for edges. It's the same thing just with different buffer, target locations, and pieces not to disturb during setup moves. 

I looked into M2 a while back and it didn't seem worth the trouble for the amount of time it would save me. I average about 3:30 now, and if I learned M2 and practiced it for a month+, then I'd estimate my average would be 3:15 (with more DNFs). If I was averaging 1:00, then that time savings would be more significant. So I guess the faster you are or plan on being, the more benefit you get from M2, which is why I'd just recommend OP for beginners who just want a success and aren't really concerned with time.

I just started learning 4bld, which essentially uses M2 (called r2 for 4bld), so I actually watched Noah's M2 videos yesterday, and gave up again. I decided to just learn r2 on the 4x4, and then in the future I may come back to M2 for 3bld and see what the real time savings are. I searched the forums a bit, but couldn't find anything specific on how much time it saves.


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## mark49152 (Aug 11, 2015)

chtiger said:


> I looked into M2 a while back and it didn't seem worth the trouble for the amount of time it would save me. I average about 3:30 now, and if I learned M2 and practiced it for a month+, then I'd estimate my average would be 3:15 (with more DNFs). If I was averaging 1:00, then that time savings would be more significant. So I guess the faster you are or plan on being, the more benefit you get from M2, which is why I'd just recommend OP for beginners who just want a success and aren't really concerned with time.


I don't expect to get fast, but I would like to have three attempts within the 12 minute cut off. Or two at least. So far I have not timed myself so I have no idea how slow I am, but I do quite like the idea of saving ~10 T-perms' worth of moves. That 20-25 secs could make a difference and it's fewer moves to fumble too. If M2 really seemed that difficult I'd drop it, but it seems OK to me. Or maybe it will just be a mess and I'll never get those M edges right  What is it you found so difficult about it?


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## MarcelP (Aug 11, 2015)

mark49152 said:


> Or maybe it will just be a mess and I'll never get those M edges right



That is exactly why I did not like M2. OP edges is way more straight forward and less prone to mistakes. I did not mind the extra moves of the T-perm.. it's good practice on the T-perm .. LOL and when you average 6 minutes all that matters is getting a result anyway. In OP edges you do not have to remember if you are on an even or odd turn. You only have to remember if there even or odd edges (or corners).


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## mark49152 (Aug 11, 2015)

MarcelP said:


> That is exactly why I did not like M2.


OK, I'll report back in 3 weeks whether I like it or not


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## h2f (Aug 11, 2015)

chtiger said:


> I just started learning 4bld, which essentially uses M2 (called r2 for 4bld), so I actually watched Noah's M2 videos yesterday, and gave up again. I decided to just learn r2 on the 4x4, and then in the future I may come back to M2 for 3bld and see what the real time savings are. I searched the forums a bit, but couldn't find anything specific on how much time it saves.



The thing is that M2 and r2 are the same. The only difference is that you cant solve UF and DB on 4x4 with M2 algs and there's new sticker FD - you solve it doing setup to BU and doing alg form M2. Learing r2 you are learning M2 and vice versa. I am average blinder (sub-1:50) but if you want to solve 4bld I recommend learing M2 first.

About time savings - M2 is equal to turbo. In his tutorials Maskow tried to compare OP, Turbo and 3style. He made solves on the same scramble with different methods and excluding memo time and he got this:
Old Pochmann: 53.83
TuRBo edges/Old Pochmann corners: 34.35 
TuRBo edges/3style corners: 23.00
3style: 18.37 (slow - hard scramble).
He is damm fast with OP. As you can see, if M2 is like a turbo, M2 is about 1,5-2 times faster than OP. I've switched to M2 a year ago after I've decided to make 4bld and 5bld. And it took me about 2-3 weeks to get a success but after few months doing a few solves per day (or doing no solves) I've dropped my times to sub-3. That's all I want to say.


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## chtiger (Aug 11, 2015)

mark49152 said:


> I don't expect to get fast, but I would like to have three attempts within the 12 minute cut off. Or two at least. So far I have not timed myself so I have no idea how slow I am, but I do quite like the idea of saving ~10 T-perms' worth of moves. That 20-25 secs could make a difference and it's fewer moves to fumble too. If M2 really seemed that difficult I'd drop it, but it seems OK to me. Or maybe it will just be a mess and I'll never get those M edges right  What is it you found so difficult about it?



If you are preparing for a comp with a 12 minute total time for 3 solves, then doing M2 instead of OP edges may be the difference in getting in that 3rd solve.

For me, dealing with the M slice targets was the main deterrent. I didn't want to learn the algorithms and have to worry about the odd/even target thing. I don't think it was too difficult, it was more that I didn't think learning it plus all the practice it would take to get good (for me) at it was worth the estimated 15 seconds it would improve my times. Of course this is based on me already being familiar with OP edges, so that wouldn't apply to people learning blind for the first time.


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## chtiger (Aug 11, 2015)

h2f said:


> The thing is that M2 and r2 are the same. The only difference is that you cant solve UF and DB on 4x4 with M2 algs and there's new sticker FD - you solve it doing setup to BU and doing alg form M2. Learing r2 you are learning M2 and vice versa. I am average blinder (sub-1:50) but if you want to solve 4bld I recommend learing M2 first.
> 
> About time savings - M2 is equal to turbo. In his tutorials Maskow tried to compare OP, Turbo and 3style. He made solves on the same scramble with different methods and excluding memo time and he got this:
> Old Pochmann: 53.83
> ...



Thanks for posting these times from Maskow. It's misleading to say M2 is 1.5-2 times faster. It's more accurate to say it is 15-20 seconds faster. It's not going to improve people by same percentage, it will improve by a fixed amount. For example, if Maskow's OP/OP time was 90 seconds, then his Turbo(or M2)/OP time would not be 45-60 seconds, it would be 70-75 seconds.

I tried a 4bld solve yesterday sighted and looking at algs, and I still had messed up after the 5th center piece. I may be over my head with trying 4bld. Doing so many slice moves is really hard for me to execute. If I continue, I'll probably take your advice and just learn M2 first.


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## mark49152 (Aug 12, 2015)

chtiger said:


> For me, dealing with the M slice targets was the main deterrent. I didn't want to learn the algorithms and have to worry about the odd/even target thing. I don't think it was too difficult, it was more that I didn't think learning it plus all the practice it would take to get good (for me) at it was worth the estimated 15 seconds it would improve my times. Of course this is based on me already being familiar with OP edges, so that wouldn't apply to people learning blind for the first time.


Maybe you should give it another go. It's really not that hard. It took me maybe 10 sighted solves to understand how it worked. There are only two algs that are neither intuitive nor trivial (I and S if you use Speffz) which is an insignificant investment of time compared to what I have learned for every other event. The only complication with the M targets is remembering to swap I/S and C/W whenever they occur as second letter of a pair, which if you do it during memo doesn't require extra thinking during execution. As a novice I have no problem creating a letter sequence for M2 and executing it blind with pretty good accuracy. If I screw up at the comp it will most likely be because I recall the sequence wrongly or fumble the cube, and that is just as likely with any method.

I'm only a beginner and will happily eat my words if it turns out M2 ruins my chances, but at this point I'm more concerned about my inability to remember a dozen letter pairs. That's the hard part.

On a different topic, I broke my 4x4 single PB of 1:08.87 today - five times in 12 solves, and not one of them was below 1:08.00. Freaky...


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## MarcelP (Aug 12, 2015)

mark49152 said:


> On a different topic, I broke my 4x4 single PB of 1:08.87 today - five times in 12 solves, and not one of them was below 1:08.00. Freaky...



Wow.. indeed. You are on fire with 4x4.. That's for sure..


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## mark49152 (Aug 12, 2015)

MarcelP said:


> Wow.. indeed. You are on fire with 4x4.. That's for sure..


After neglecting it for a while I'm now averaging about the same as October last year when I put in a load of practice and reached 1:22. Breaking single PB five times so close together is very unusual and has now given me very distorted ao12 and ao5 PBs .

Are you doing much 4x4/5x5 these days?


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## Logiqx (Aug 12, 2015)

Impressive times Mark. I'm trying to do 20 solves a day on 4x4 and my best is usually between 1:15 and 1:20.

I had my first sub-1:30 session on 4x4 yesterday (20 solves) with an average of 1:28.96.

I very nearly broke through 10s on Pyra but it went a bit downhill after 60 solves - 9.79 Ao50 / 10.09 Ao100


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## MarcelP (Aug 12, 2015)

mark49152 said:


> Are you doing much 4x4/5x5 these days?



No, not even 5 solves every week for the weekly context. I am just about to do some more (training for Ducth open) 



Logiqx said:


> I very nearly broke through 10s on Pyra but it went a bit downhill after 60 solves - 9.79 Ao50 / 10.09 Ao100



Still very awesome


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## h2f (Aug 12, 2015)

chtiger said:


> Thanks for posting these times from Maskow. It's misleading to say M2 is 1.5-2 times faster. It's more accurate to say it is 15-20 seconds faster. It's not going to improve people by same percentage, it will improve by a fixed amount. For example, if Maskow's OP/OP time was 90 seconds, then his Turbo(or M2)/OP time would not be 45-60 seconds, it would be 70-75 seconds.
> 
> I tried a 4bld solve yesterday sighted and looking at algs, and I still had messed up after the 5th center piece. I may be over my head with trying 4bld. Doing so many slice moves is really hard for me to execute. If I continue, I'll probably take your advice and just learn M2 first.



I'm sure you will choose the best method for you. If M2 looks hard to you, do OP. I hope you will successfull soon. There's a method for 4bld based on OP but it's hard because you need to make around 1 thousend moves to solve the cube. I know the cuber who did it on the competiton...  

The main factor to save time in blindsolving is a memo time. 

Anyway good luck.


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## Schmidt (Aug 12, 2015)

MarcelP said:


> *3X3X3: *18.79 20.16 (16.92) (21.24) 21.20 = *20.05*
> *4X4X4: *_*48.38*_ (1:43.97) 1:44.54 1:45.39 (2:14.63) = *1:46.10*


You so Pro!


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## MarcelP (Aug 13, 2015)

Schmidt said:


> You so Pro!



Ah, thanks. Fixed that. If I would have had a sub 1 you all would hear about it.. LOL I think 1.21 is my PB or so.

EDIT: btw, all the solves had at least one parity and some double parity.. still great average for me.. I must be getting faster without practice


----------



## mark49152 (Aug 13, 2015)

Logiqx said:


> I had my first sub-1:30 session on 4x4 yesterday (20 solves) with an average of 1:28.96.


Nice one, good progress. The ABHC average cut makes a nice target! 

I set my personal targets based on your analysis of relative solve times, using the IQM of 4.89 for 4x4 relative to 3x3. However, I do think 1:25 on 4x4 is an easier target than 17.5 on 3x3, at least for me. Perhaps the steep slope of the 4x4/3x3 line just shows that there are lots of people who focus much more on 3x3, and for someone who puts serious practice into both events they should expect to be nearer the left side, so closer to 4x. Thoughts?

Also, back to the BLD topic, I did some ao12s with M2/OP sighted execution only, so measuring execution without any regard to memo or delays due to recall. Here are my results:-
- Full solve 1:48
- M2 edges and parity 1:06
- OP corners 0:40

So my ratio of edges to corners is 1.65. @chtiger, I know you are faster than me, but it would be interesting to compare your ratio, using OP edges and corners, if you are interested. (Remember to include parity with edges.)

I thought the results were interesting because even though there are 11-14 edge swaps to 7-9 corner swaps, typically, I expected that to be cancelled out by the shorter edge swap alg, but clearly not. it might be partly explained by the fact I have practised corners for longer. And the longer edge setups must be a factor.


----------



## MarcelP (Aug 13, 2015)

mark49152 said:


> - Full solve 1:48



Wow! that's insane fast  I check my first BLD on cam and splits are like this:

memo 1 minute
execution 2.40 (1.55 edges, 45 corners).

I guess M2 is worth it.. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BSCaeDfPeQg

BTW, I practiced memo in the train to work every day for a month back then. Now a memo takes about 4 minutes.. BLAH!


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## mark49152 (Aug 13, 2015)

MarcelP said:


> Wow! that's insane fast


That's sighted though - so no pauses trying to recall, and no being careful not to go too fast and lose track of where I am, etc. I did this only out of curiosity and have no delusions that my actual execution time would be close to that.

I have no idea how long memo would take me - I am really struggling with that. I'd be happy with 4 mins memo and 2 mins execution as that would get me two attempts at the comp. But I can't even do edges on their own yet. I'm trying to use audio for edges and images for corners as suggested by Noah. What did you do?


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## MarcelP (Aug 13, 2015)

mark49152 said:


> I have no idea how long memo would take me - I am really struggling with that. I'd be happy with 4 mins memo and 2 mins execution



I did make a print of my letter scheme, I wrote letters on a cube with a waterproof marker. Did hundreds of memo only. I memorized A, E, I, M, Q, U as my first letters on each face. That way I was used to finding their position rather quick. But after doing literally hundres of attemps I did get no more than a hand full success. I decided that it was too challenging for me and gave up. I will start again one day. There are many things I could work on to make it easier. I will buy you a round of beer when you do get a succes on your upcomming competition.

BTW, I hardly did ever fail in memo, but 90% of failures come from doing execution wrong.


----------



## mark49152 (Aug 13, 2015)

MarcelP said:


> I will buy you a round of beer when you do get a succes on your upcomming competition.
> 
> BTW, I hardly did ever fail in memo, but 90% of failures come from doing execution wrong.


Cheers, maybe I will come to Dutch nationals to collect 

Interesting that your challenge was with execution. I have no problem with that. Maybe because I practice it separately? So I will study the cube and write down the letters, then solve the cube under the table while reading off the sheet, so I can practise execution without having to remember the letters. With that and sighted solves, I ironed out most of my execution problems, including the M2 slice weirdness.

Memory is my problem. I can't even remember what I did this morning. Memorizing a dozen letter pairs seems a ridiculous challenge. How people like Maskow remember tens of cubes, I have no idea. They must be androids or aliens.

How did you remember your pairs?


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## Logiqx (Aug 13, 2015)

mark49152 said:


> Nice one, good progress. The ABHC average cut makes a nice target!
> 
> I set my personal targets based on your analysis of relative solve times, using the IQM of 4.89 for 4x4 relative to 3x3. However, I do think 1:25 on 4x4 is an easier target than 17.5 on 3x3, at least for me. Perhaps the steep slope of the 4x4/3x3 line just shows that there are lots of people who focus much more on 3x3, and for someone who puts serious practice into both events they should expect to be nearer the left side, so closer to 4x. Thoughts?



Yeah. I'll be happy if I can do the Ao5 but I have no expectation of making the cut-off because half of my solves are sup-1:30. I'll just see what happens and hope for an easy solve. 

I concur with your thoughts relating to relative times.

Edit: Good work with 3BLD guys!


----------



## MarcelP (Aug 13, 2015)

mark49152 said:


> How did you remember your pairs?



Trust me, you do not want BLD tips from people like me.. LOL

I am going to tell you anyway how I did it. I speak several languages so I can find words easily for two letters. I mix languages up, but as long as the sentence makes sence.

For example

PT CG AQ
PiraTe CiGar Aqua = Pirate is smoking a cigar on the water.


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## mark49152 (Aug 13, 2015)

MarcelP said:


> Trust me, you do not want BLD tips from people like me.. LOL
> 
> PT CG AQ
> PiraTe CiGar Aqua = Pirate is smoking a cigar on the water.


Well, I like your method better than mine . You have one image for three pairs. I have been doing one image per pair, or at least one image element per letter, for example, a pirate up a tree watching a cat on the ground play with ants in a queue (although porn is easier to remember ). I think your approach is more efficient.

I have also been trying audio, so would imagine myself saying a word like pat-chug-ash over and over.

Edit: Nice BLD solve! Impressive that you only took a minute for memo.


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## MarcelP (Aug 13, 2015)

mark49152 said:


> Edit: Nice BLD solve! Impressive that you only took a minute for memo.



Thanks! It all depends on having no flipped edges and corners with me. With only two flipped edges my memo drops to over 2 minutes.. Well at least that was then.. Now I will take for ever for memo 

After a real tired day at work I did my daily Ao50 and broke my PB Ao12 and Ao5..



Spoiler: After 29 solves



Generated By csTimer on 2015-8-13
solves/total: 29/29

single
best: 14.93
worst: 23.33

mean of 3
current: 20.91 (σ = 0.96)
best: 15.72 (σ = 0.69)

avg of 5
current: 19.46 (σ = 1.57)
best: 16.18 (σ = 0.14)

avg of 12
current: 17.71 (σ = 1.71)
best: 16.59 (σ = 1.07)

Average: 18.46 (σ = 2.23)
Mean: 18.54

10. 18.14 D B' F' D2 B2 F R2 U2 R2 U2 F L2 R' F D2 R D B F 
11. 15.59 R' B2 L U2 R2 F' D F' U R2 L2 D2 L2 U' F2 L2 F2 B 
12. 16.35 R2 F' U R' B U2 D L' B' U' F' B U2 F D2 R2 B' U2 F2 U2 L2 
13. 16.64 U2 L' F2 L2 U B U2 L F' D2 L2 B' D2 F2 U2 R2 F U2 F' 
14. 16.32 D' U2 B F' D2 L2 R2 B2 F L2 D' R' U F R' D' F2 L' 
15. 20.47 D L' D2 L F2 D2 F2 L' D2 L' U2 L D' F' R' U B D F 
16. 14.93 B2 R2 F D2 F R2 F2 L2 D2 L2 U2 R U' F R D' L' B R U2 B 
17. 16.03 R2 D2 L F2 R' U2 F2 R F2 U2 R2 B U' F L' U' R2 U L' D' F' 
18. 16.20 B U2 F2 L2 F U2 F' L2 D2 L2 F R' B D U2 R D F' U2 
19. 19.38 B' U L2 U2 B2 F2 U' L2 D' B2 F2 U' L' F' U2 B F2 L' U' F' L 
20. 17.20 B2 U' R2 D2 U' F2 R2 D B2 U' B2 L' F D2 B2 R F R U R2 U 
21. 16.00 U F2 R2 U2 R2 B' L2 R2 F2 D2 L2 U F2 U' L' R F' D U2 
22. 16.21 R D2 B2 F2 R2 D2 L' U2 R U2 B2 F D U2 R' D' L2 U' B2 U2 
23. 16.40 U' B2 L2 U' B2 D2 R2 D' L2 F' L' D R' F U' B L2 B2 L2 D2 
24. 17.26 D' R2 U' R2 B2 L2 U2 B2 U' L2 D' F' D2 R' F L D2 F D2 L2 U2 
25. 17.65 B' U2 B2 L2 R2 U R2 F2 R2 B2 U' B' L2 D B' U2 L' F' U' R D 
26. 16.05 R2 U F2 U2 L2 F2 U' R2 F2 U2 B2 R' U F2 U L' R B D' U F 



I was talking to my wife while solving and did not realise I was doing great.. LOL.. I had noticed my slight progress allready over the last few weeks. The thing that I have changed is that I have been doing slow solves like Chrisopher Wright. I mean I try to do that. I can not turn slow and get great times like he, but I do every day about 50 solves untimed while watching TV like that. And I feel that during speedsolves I find my pairs more easily.




mark49152 said:


> So I will study the cube and write down the letters, then solve the cube under the table while reading off the sheet,



Yeah, I made this then and did similair training with cube under the table:


----------



## mark49152 (Aug 13, 2015)

MarcelP said:


> Yeah, I made this then and did similair training with cube under the table:


What I meant was I write down the letters for the solve, like PT CG AQ. Then I solve under the table while reading those off the sheet. So blind solving without relying on memory . It tests whether I can remember the letter scheme (your diagram) and the execution and setup moves correctly, without stressing my brain with having to remember the letters as well. That's why I'm confident to say my execution is OK, because if I eliminate the memo aspect, I can solve an out-of-sight cube no problem.

Congrats on the PBs, that is a nice jump. Your ao12 is only 0.05 off mine!


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## MarcelP (Aug 13, 2015)

mark49152 said:


> Congrats on the PBs, that is a nice jump. Your ao12 is only 0.05 off mine!



I just checked and I broke my Ao50 PB as well, but I had been breaking it a few times over the last few days.


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## chtiger (Aug 13, 2015)

mark49152 said:


> Also, back to the BLD topic, I did some ao12s with M2/OP sighted execution only, so measuring execution without any regard to memo or delays due to recall. Here are my results:-
> - Full solve 1:48
> - M2 edges and parity 1:06
> - OP corners 0:40
> ...



That's excellent. You'll be faster than me by next week. 
I'll usually judge my execution time by time/target (total exec time/total targets). I count flipped/twisted pieces as 2 targets and I also count parity as a target since it requires long algorithm. Anything below 4.5 sec/target is good for me, but remember I'm a fairly slow solver/turner in general. 

Yesterday I had a relatively pause-free solve with no parity, so it's probably a good example to use. Execution time was about 1:25. 12 edges, 8 corners, so 4.25 sec/target. I've never timed edges/corners separately, but I'd guess the rates would be pretty much the same since the algs and setup moves are similar. So assuming 4.25s for all targets, then edges would be 51 sec and corners 34 sec. I may do some solves like you did in the next day or two to find out for certain.

Your rate for edges is higher than corners, which should not be the case for M2. You are definitely more proficient with corners at this point. With more practice at M2, if your corners stayed at 40 sec, then I'd guess your edges would be about 45.


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## chtiger (Aug 13, 2015)

I'm having all kinds of technical problems with the forum. Tried a post a while ago and it said it would be posted after moderator approval. Just tried again and it shows me as having made the most recent post in this thread, but my post is not here. So there may end up being multiple similar posts by me. I'll clean it up if things ever start working normally.

Edit: I tried again and got the 'post will appear after moderator approval'. But apparently this post about posts not working actually posted. Sorry Mark, the forum does not want you to know my edge/corner ratios for blind.


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## MarcelP (Aug 14, 2015)

chtiger said:


> I'm having all kinds of technical problems with the forum. Tried a post a while ago and it said it would be posted after moderator approval. Just tried again and it shows me as having made the most recent post in this thread, but my post is not here. So there may end up being multiple similar posts by me. I'll clean it up if things ever start working normally.
> 
> Edit: I tried again and got the 'post will appear after moderator approval'. But apparently this post about posts not working actually posted. Sorry Mark, the forum does not want you to know my edge/corner ratios for blind.


We are seeing your post.. Try again?


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## chtiger (Aug 14, 2015)

I see my response to Mark from yesterday finally showed up. Anybody see a reason why it needed moderator approval?

Anyway, I did 10 solves the way Mark did, sighted and writing down memo, and timing edges and corners separately. Averages were (counting parity as edge target)---

edges -- 13 targets, 3.95 seconds/target, 51.4 seconds
corners -- 8.1 targets, 3.84 seconds/target, 31.1 seconds

Nothing really surprising. Good news for me is apparently my pauses during actual blind solves aren't too bad. Bad news is my turning speed is really slow.


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## TDM (Aug 14, 2015)

chtiger said:


> I see my response to Mark from yesterday finally showed up. Anybody see a reason why it needed moderator approval?


For newer members, some posts do need moderator approval. It shouldn't be long before you don't have to have any posts approved.


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## Logiqx (Aug 14, 2015)

MarcelP said:


> After a real tired day at work I did my daily Ao50 and broke my PB Ao12 and Ao5.



Very nice. Looks like I have some catching up to do.


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## chtiger (Aug 14, 2015)

mark49152 said:


> How people like Maskow remember tens of cubes, I have no idea. They must be androids or aliens.



I watched somebody do 12/13 Mbld at US Nats, and was amazed. Checked the results later and he only finished 8th. That's crazy. How do so many people do so many cubes? 



mark49152 said:


> How did you remember your pairs?



You weren't asking me, but I'll share anyway. I still don't use letter pairs. Coming up with 400+ images is too much for me. Too many weird letter combos, and others letter pairs will get mixed up. I definitely recommend letter pairs if you are going to do Mbld or 4bld, but I think my method is easy enough for 3bld (still not recommending it though). 

For edges, I don't use letters, I use the location of sticker (e.g. front right sticker is FR). That way there are only 22 images to come up with. I then pair 2 together and place them in different rooms of my house. An example lucky memo would start UF,RF,FD,FR,BU,FL...., that would be UFo on the RooF outside, FooD in FRidge in kitchen, BUg on FLoor in living room, etc. If I am doing multiple solves in a row, I will alternate that method with grouping 3 images together, so I'll have less chance of accidentally using previous memo. 

For corners, I use letters, but I just memo them however makes some sense. When you get a vowel, you can make 'words' so it's easy unless you end up with all consonants. I'll put them in a pairs or groups of 3 if needed. Example scramble just now unfortunately yields all consonants VPRTSXW. I'd break it up VP RTS XW and just remember the letters and not make images. I memo corners last and solve first, so it's not hard to do.


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## mark49152 (Aug 15, 2015)

chtiger said:


> Lots


Thanks for the info. For OP edges I guess it's not surprising that your time per target is about the same as corners. I did not count the targets in my averages so can't work that out with accuracy, but you are right that I'm more proficient with corners so maybe I'll repeat the exercise after I've got better with M2.

Regarding memo, don't you find it more constrained to have to come up with images that match syllables like RD or RF? Plus, one word per sticker is less efficient than one word per pair. Actually I found I picked up the letters quite quickly. Not only do I quickly associate a location with a letter, but also a piece, so when tracing cycles if I see the red sticker of a red/yellow edge I immediately think E without having to think about where the piece goes. That probably seems obvious to a experienced BLDer but it was unexpected for me.

I have tried various ideas for memo that I've seen in various videos, but so far, the thing that seems to work best for me is to use the first thing that comes into my head, rather than enforce some consistent scheme of images or combinations. That means my scene is often a bit of a mess. For example, GM TW FC might be a car (General Motors) parked on a football (club) pitch in Taiwan. In a different context or order, the same letter pairs might conjure up different images/elements, like FC TW GM could be fish and chips twice at the Grand Metropolitan hotel.

I'm struggling a bit with audio, as I can't stop myself from focusing on the letters instead of the sounds, so I may as well just remember the letters as you do. Not sure whether to just abandon audio and try images for everything.


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## chtiger (Aug 16, 2015)

mark49152 said:


> Regarding memo, don't you find it more constrained to have to come up with images that match syllables like RD or RF? Plus, one word per sticker is less efficient than one word per pair. Actually I found I picked up the letters quite quickly. Not only do I quickly associate a location with a letter, but also a piece, so when tracing cycles if I see the red sticker of a red/yellow edge I immediately think E without having to think about where the piece goes. That probably seems obvious to a experienced BLDer but it was unexpected for me..



Not sure I understand your first question. If you're doing letter pairs and get R followed by D, you end up with an image for RD, same as with my right down sticker. The advantage to my way is there are only 22 possible letter pairs ('pair' being a single target in my method) instead of 462 possible pairs. I don't have to worry about coming up with an image for the 21 possible pairs starting with Q, or 21 with X, etc. There's only a few weird ones to worry about for me.

It is less efficient though, which is why pretty much everybody recommends letter pairs. It just works better for me. If I did letter pairs, any time savings I'd get by memoing 6 less images, I'd spend trying to come up with something memorizable for the awkward letter pairs. Also since I do pair (or group 3) targets together, my method isn't as inefficient as it seems. Taking RD and RF stickers for example, I'd visualize a red roof. That's essentially 1 image for 2 targets, since a red roof isn't really any harder to visualize than a roof in general. On the other hand, if you got the letters RDRF doing letter pairs, you could visualize a red roof and have 1 image for 4 targets. So yeah, my way is twice as inefficient, but not as hard to memo as it may seem. Not trying to convince you to use my method, just sharing why I prefer it, and hopefully, if you are struggling with memo, maybe you can take something from it that will help.


----------



## chtiger (Aug 16, 2015)

Speaking of learning letter pairs, I don't know what I'm going to do with 4bld centers when I get back to trying that. Letter pairs seems inevitable but an example solve using letter pairs for centers yields IE QA GJ RK WB NH OS LT PL. How do people come up with images to memo that? I've stared at IE for 5 minutes and still haven't thought of anything. Seems very difficult to me.


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## mark49152 (Aug 16, 2015)

chtiger said:


> IE QA GJ RK WB NH OS LT PL


Internet Explorer testing? Good job, Red Ken and Warner Brothers! National Health gets its operating system from Lithuania and Poland.


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## chtiger (Aug 16, 2015)

mark49152 said:


> Internet Explorer testing? Good job, Red Ken and Warner Brothers! National Health gets its operating system from Lithuania and Poland.



Good job, or should I say GJ. I'd have a hard time visualizing that though and would just have to memorize it as a sentence. I've decided to just forget about letter pairs and memo the letters like I do with 3bld corners. I'll just split it in half and treat it like 2 cubes of a Mbld. I stored that string of letters in my memory, breaking it up into smaller chunks, in maybe a minute and could recall it 5 minutes later. That's good enough for me. All the while, I never came up with anything for IE (don't know why I didn't think of Internet Explorer). Now just need to learn M2/r2


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## mark49152 (Aug 16, 2015)

chtiger said:


> I'd have a hard time visualizing that though and would just have to memorize it as a sentence.


Yeah I agree. The visuals that popped into my head were the IE and WB logos, RK's face, the Windows logo and a map of Europe. That only partially covers it but might be enough to jog my memory to recall the sentence. Again, I'm intuitively assuming that whatever pops into my head first is going to provide the best basis for memory so I should use that somehow rather than trying to devise more vivid images that are less naturally associated with the letters.

That might of course be completely wrong - I have almost no experience and am just saying what seems to work best for me while learning. I might regret it later.


----------



## mark49152 (Aug 16, 2015)

Had my first full 3BLD success today! Admittedly it was quite an easy one, with 10 edge swaps and 8 corners. Execution was 1:51 but I didn't time memo. That was probably at least 5 minutes.


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## MarcelP (Aug 16, 2015)

mark49152 said:


> Had my first full 3BLD success today! Admittedly it was quite an easy one, with 10 edge swaps and 8 corners. Execution was 1:51 but I didn't time memo. That was probably at least 5 minutes.



Congrats!


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## Logiqx (Aug 16, 2015)

Well done Mark. Hope to see you get a success at ABHC.


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## chtiger (Aug 18, 2015)

mark49152 said:


> Had my first full 3BLD success today! Admittedly it was quite an easy one, with 10 edge swaps and 8 corners. Execution was 1:51 but I didn't time memo. That was probably at least 5 minutes.



That's great. You're making really good progress.

I forced myself to learn M2 today. Spent about an hour learning the algs, and making sure I could do the non M-slice targets, then tried a few real solves. Did the edges correct on all 3 solves (had 1 twisted corner DNF). Didn't time memo, best execution time was 3:08.


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## mark49152 (Aug 19, 2015)

chtiger said:


> I forced myself to learn M2 today. Spent about an hour learning the algs, and making sure I could do the non M-slice targets, then tried a few real solves. Did the edges correct on all 3 solves (had 1 twisted corner DNF). Didn't time memo, best execution time was 3:08.


That's great. Did you have to do anything tricky like solve M targets on even swaps? Any parity? Did you solves edges first?


----------



## h2f (Aug 19, 2015)

chtiger said:


> That's great. You're making really good progress.
> 
> I forced myself to learn M2 today. Spent about an hour learning the algs, and making sure I could do the non M-slice targets, then tried a few real solves. Did the edges correct on all 3 solves (had 1 twisted corner DNF). Didn't time memo, best execution time was 3:08.



That's fine. Notice that alg for FU is an inverse of alg for DB and vice versa. The same is with UF and DB.


----------



## moralsh (Aug 19, 2015)

You can also do the same alg for FU and BD if you rotate the cube x' y2


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## chtiger (Aug 20, 2015)

mark49152 said:


> That's great. Did you have to do anything tricky like solve M targets on even swaps? Any parity? Did you solves edges first?



Yeah I encountered all the tricky stuff. Had parity on every solve. The 2nd solve I had FU as even target but didn't realize it until after I had done it and the next target, but managed to undo everything and fix it. Also had BD/DB as flipped piece, so had to think about that for a while. Execution time was over 5 minutes for that solve.

I solved corners first twice, and edges first once. The way I memo corners, it's easier for me to solve them first, so I'll probably stick with that and just save the last corner target for end of solve if there is parity. Now just need to put in the practice to get rid of all the thinking during execution.


----------



## mark49152 (Aug 23, 2015)

BLD update: Did 50 attempts today with 29 successes (58%). Of the successes, average time was 5:26 and PB was 4:07.

Occasionally it's obvious where I went wrong, but usually it's not easy to figure out, which makes it harder to know how to improve. I suspect that many of my errors are down to making mistakes in deriving a letter sequence, rather than recalling or executing it wrong.


----------



## Logiqx (Aug 23, 2015)

mark49152 said:


> BLD update: Did 50 attempts today with 29 successes (58%). Of the successes, average time was 5:26 and PB was 4:07.
> 
> Occasionally it's obvious where I went wrong, but usually it's not easy to figure out, which makes it harder to know how to improve. I suspect that many of my errors are down to making mistakes in deriving a letter sequence, rather than recalling or executing it wrong.



Wow. I'm impressed not only by the 58% success rate but the number of attempts in one day. That must have taken 5 to 6 hours!

Video might be helpful to identify the cause of errors. e.g. Say the letters out aloud during memo and recall?

Edit: looking good for 2 attempts at ABHC


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## mark49152 (Aug 23, 2015)

Logiqx said:


> That must have taken 5 to 6 hours!
> 
> Edit: looking good for 2 attempts at ABHC


Yeah I had much of the day to myself. My goal is simply a success so if I can get good enough that I can complete the first attempt in 5 mins without too much rushing or pressure, it would be nice to have 7 minutes left for a more careful 2nd attempt.

How is your practice for the event going?


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## Logiqx (Aug 23, 2015)

mark49152 said:


> How is your practice for the event going?



Slightly sporadic. I have a lot going on at the moment but my times over my five events seem ok during practice.

The UK champs are in my home town and I should be free that weekend so the ABHC is my warm up event!

Sadly, I'm away during the weekend of the Cuthberts open so I will miss it this year.

It's unfortunate that of the 5 events within 15 minutes of home this year, 3 have clashed with my windsurf competitions!


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## MarcelP (Aug 23, 2015)

Good stuff Mark! Seems like when you set your mind to something it works out.  I think you are 'on route' for an official succes.


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## Logiqx (Aug 27, 2015)

I've been neglecting my 4x4 recently so I made some time for a session today.

I was a bit concerned during the first dozen solves (averaging 1:34) but things started to improve after that and I ended up with PBs for 5/12/50 - 1:22.60/1:23.99/1:27.63

I don't expect to make the average cut-off at the ABHC on Saturday but it's not entirely impossible!



Spoiler



Generated By csTimer on 2015-8-27

solves/total: 61/61

single
best: 1:14.78
worst: 1:48.48

mean of 3
current: 1:22.97 (σ = 1.28)
best: 1:20.03 (σ = 3.59)

avg of 5
current: 1:25.51 (σ = 3.11)
best: 1:22.60 (σ = 4.11)

avg of 12
current: 1:27.61 (σ = 4.86)
best: 1:23.99 (σ = 5.73)

avg of 50
current: 1:27.63 (σ = 6.63)
best: 1:27.63 (σ = 6.63)

Average: 1:28.99 (σ = 6.50)
Mean: 1:29.22

Time List:
1. 1:32.90 Fw2 Rw L R2 D' Uw R' Rw' Uw2 L B2 Uw2 Fw' L2 Uw2 D U' Rw2 D2 F D2 Fw Rw Fw' B Rw F' Fw' U F2 L' Fw2 F2 U' Rw R' Fw2 Rw' D2 Rw' 
2. 1:34.76 L' Rw R B2 D' R' F D' R' Uw' B U' F L Rw2 Uw' Rw R' U B F' Fw2 Rw2 R2 Uw2 U2 Fw' D2 Fw2 L' Fw' U2 L2 F D Fw L2 Uw2 Rw' L 
3. 1:34.00 D Fw' U R' D2 Fw2 L Fw2 B2 Rw' Uw D2 F D2 U F2 Rw' D2 Uw Fw2 R' D2 U' Rw L U D F2 U' L2 R' U2 B2 D U2 F2 R B' D' B 
4. 1:33.76 Fw2 R Fw' U R' Uw' F2 D' U2 Fw2 L' B D Rw D2 Uw' Rw' F L2 Rw2 Uw' L2 R2 Uw Fw B2 Uw2 Rw2 F2 L' Uw U' Fw' D2 R B U2 Uw' L' Rw' 
5. 1:36.46 Uw2 B2 Rw Uw2 Rw' U' B2 U2 B R Uw' F R' Uw U' F' D' Fw2 F2 L' U2 F B' Rw L Uw2 Rw' D' Uw Rw U2 R D' B U' Uw2 Rw F2 R' Fw' 
6. 1:38.11 L2 Rw' Fw F' Uw U L' Uw Fw' B' F D2 Rw2 D' L B' Uw' F L R2 D Fw' U Fw2 R' L2 F Rw Fw' Rw2 Fw' U2 B F D Fw2 D' R2 Uw F' 
7. 1:26.10 Uw2 Rw' Uw2 L2 D' B U D Uw2 Rw' Uw' B2 U' Uw B2 L B' D Rw2 Fw2 U' D' Rw' Fw' Uw' F2 Fw B2 Uw2 U R U Uw' Rw' R' Fw2 B Rw Fw' Rw 
8. 1:30.20 Fw' F2 U2 L2 D2 Fw2 B U2 R F Uw' D Fw2 U' F' Fw2 Rw' U2 R' B2 Fw F U' Fw' Uw2 Fw U R U D2 Fw' F2 Rw Fw2 Rw2 Uw U B2 Uw' Fw' 
9. 1:38.16 Fw' U' L2 F2 U Rw' B' D2 B L' F' Uw' B2 U2 Rw' B F' U' R' B' U' F2 R' Uw' D2 U' L Rw U' B2 L' Uw2 D B F2 R' F Rw' L Fw 
10. 1:33.70 Fw2 L2 B Rw Fw2 R2 F L R2 D2 U' B U Uw D2 Fw2 D B2 U' R F' Rw' F L2 Fw R2 D' Rw' R2 F2 Uw2 F2 Fw2 R2 Uw2 U' Rw' R2 L' U' 
11. 1:43.84 Rw' F Fw' B Uw' B2 Uw' D' U2 L' R' Rw Fw Rw2 Fw D' L' D' Fw' R U Uw' L' Fw' Rw Uw F' L' Uw B2 R' Rw2 L2 Uw' Fw' U' D Fw2 R' F 
12. 1:30.18 F D Rw2 B' D' F2 Fw Uw' Fw R2 Fw' D' F Rw' Uw' Rw R' Uw R' B2 L' F2 U F' R2 D2 F D U R' D' Fw2 F R' L F2 L2 R' D' R 
13. 1:20.90 D' U2 Rw' U Rw' U' Uw' Rw2 Fw' B2 L2 F2 B2 D' Uw Rw2 R' Uw2 U D' F Uw2 R2 D' L B2 R2 F Rw' L B Fw' U L2 Rw2 B2 R' Fw' R' Uw' 
14. 1:21.80 B R' D2 B F' Rw D2 R Fw Uw2 D' B' U2 F2 B' L U2 R' Rw F2 L' D Uw B' D2 L2 R2 Fw2 D' B' F' D' F U' Rw' B2 D R' D L2 
15. 1:41.80 R' U' D2 Uw2 F2 Uw' Fw2 Rw' F' Rw' Fw' Uw' F2 R U2 Fw B F2 R2 L B Fw2 F R2 B U F' U' B' Rw2 D' U2 Rw' Fw2 D Fw F U D' B' 
16. 1:23.62 L' U' B2 Fw' D Fw' B2 Uw2 L B2 Fw L D2 Uw2 U' L2 U' B' U2 B2 Uw Rw2 Uw D2 Rw2 B' U' R2 U' D' B L' U Rw' Fw B' Rw2 Fw Uw' F' 
17. 1:28.64 F U2 Fw2 R' B R2 Uw L Uw' U2 Rw' B' D' Uw U2 B' U F' Uw' R2 D R2 F2 Rw2 R U' R Rw2 Fw D' F U B2 L2 B' Rw2 Uw' F D R2 
18. 1:19.66 U' Uw' R' L2 Fw2 B F' R2 B Uw B Fw R Rw2 Fw2 D2 Fw2 F2 Uw U' Fw2 D2 Fw Rw' U2 Rw Uw2 U' Rw Uw' Fw' F2 L B' L2 Fw2 Rw B' R' D 
19. 1:42.34 L' F2 B' L2 F' B2 R' F2 L2 D' Fw' R' B Fw Rw2 F Fw2 Uw2 Rw2 F U Uw' L' Uw' L' D Rw R' F2 D Uw Fw D2 B2 U2 B' D2 Rw2 D' Fw2 
20. 1:48.48 U' F2 R' F' R L' U L' U' Uw L' Rw2 Fw' D' F' D U' F' D' F2 L2 Fw U' L D' Uw2 F2 L2 Rw R B2 F2 Fw2 L' Fw' D2 F Fw' Rw2 D2 
21. 1:21.80 Fw' F' R' U2 Uw2 R L' F Fw Uw2 Rw' F R' Rw Uw' R2 Fw2 Uw' U' L2 Uw' L Rw' Uw2 F' R2 F2 B2 Rw' B D' F' Fw' L Fw Uw2 F2 Fw Rw2 Fw 
22. 1:29.10 B' U' Fw2 Rw' Uw2 Fw2 D' Uw2 L' D L' B' Fw Rw2 D2 F Fw' Rw' L' U2 Fw Uw' U' D2 Rw2 R2 U B Uw2 B' Fw' F' Uw' Fw2 L2 Uw Fw D U2 Fw' 
23. 1:20.36 F U' Rw B2 R2 F2 B U D2 L' Fw2 F D' Fw Uw' D' Fw' F2 L F' U' D' L2 D2 Uw2 L Uw' D2 Fw2 D2 L B Rw2 L' F2 D Fw2 U' Fw2 U 
24. 1:36.74 F2 B R' D' Fw2 Uw2 U2 F Rw2 D2 F R F2 L' Fw2 Uw2 F2 B R2 Uw D Fw2 Rw R2 B2 L' Fw2 F' U Rw' R L2 Fw2 F Rw' R' U2 Fw Uw' B2 
25. 1:23.10 Uw' Rw L' B F Fw2 Rw Fw' B2 R U2 Fw Uw2 L R2 Uw U R L2 U Uw2 Rw2 Fw B D2 R2 Uw2 L' B2 Uw B2 Uw L' F' Fw2 L2 D' Uw2 Fw Rw 
26. 1:31.44 Uw U R2 U D Rw B' R Rw2 L2 U F L Fw2 L' R' Rw2 Fw F2 B2 R2 D2 R L2 Fw' U2 D' Rw F U L' B Fw' R2 U D R D' B2 Rw 
27. 1:37.30 Rw2 R' B L' B2 D' L2 Uw B' Fw F2 Uw' B2 Rw2 U' R2 L Rw Fw2 F2 Rw2 Uw' Rw' L2 B2 Rw F2 L2 R2 U F2 Uw Rw' Uw R2 F' B D' R2 U 
28. 1:24.04 U2 L2 R' F Fw2 R2 B' Uw U' D B U2 Fw U Fw' R2 Fw R L Uw' Rw' L' Fw2 Rw R2 U' Rw' F2 L' R' U R' L' Rw U B' L F Fw U 
29. 1:17.10 D' U F U2 Rw L2 Fw2 B2 F' U' F U2 Uw Rw Uw2 R' U' Rw' R Fw' D' R Rw' F2 B2 Rw2 U D B2 Fw2 Rw' Fw2 L' R' F Rw' B' F U L2 
30. 1:18.96 U2 F2 Uw' Rw' B Rw2 Uw' Rw' U' B2 F Fw R2 Rw2 Uw2 R L U2 Uw D' R B' Uw' U D2 L2 R' Uw Fw B2 Uw2 D2 B2 R Rw U' Uw B2 D Rw2 
31. 1:30.78 D2 F U Fw Uw2 U L' Fw' D' L D Fw F2 B2 D' Rw' R Uw2 B D' F2 Uw L R Rw B' Rw R2 Uw U2 F2 B D2 F R F' Rw' Uw2 L2 B2 
32. 1:34.96 L2 B D2 B2 Rw B2 L' Rw' R' U' Uw B R2 Rw U2 Fw U' Uw' L2 U B' U2 Rw' D F' D2 B' Uw L D' Fw R' Fw Uw2 D' L' Uw R Uw2 L2 
33. 1:27.82 R D2 F2 Uw' D' Fw' L R2 Fw B' R2 Rw' Fw2 B2 Uw' Rw' U F U D2 Uw R2 Rw U' Rw2 L' B R B2 U2 Uw L' Rw D B Fw' L' F R' F' 
34. 1:38.34 B2 L Fw D2 R' Rw Uw D Rw' B2 D Fw U L2 U' Uw2 R Uw2 R' U' Uw2 F Rw R F Rw B2 Fw2 Rw' F' R D' U' R' L' F' D U2 Fw2 Rw2 
35. 1:22.50 U2 R' F2 L D2 L2 B' F2 U R' L' Uw2 L Fw2 Rw F B Uw L2 Fw2 L U' F Fw D' B Rw2 B2 L2 D2 F D2 L F Uw D' R2 Uw B Rw 
36. 1:35.90 Uw' U D2 Rw Uw' B L2 F' D' U' Uw' R' F Fw D2 Fw D2 Fw2 Uw' U' Rw' B2 U D' F2 Fw' U D R' B U2 Fw L2 F R2 F2 L D2 U' Uw2 
37. 1:14.78 R2 F Uw R Uw' Rw B2 U B2 U Rw' Fw' L2 U' Uw' Rw Fw Rw2 Uw Fw' Uw2 L' Uw Rw' Uw2 L2 B' Fw' Rw' R' L U B' Rw Uw L2 R F2 L Fw2 
38. 1:23.98 Rw' L2 Fw2 B R' Uw' L Fw R B Uw2 L R Rw2 F2 Uw' L2 B2 D' Uw F' R Fw U D2 Uw' R B F2 R2 F2 R Rw U' F' Uw2 U L2 U' B 
39. 1:25.84 Rw2 Uw2 F2 Rw2 F Uw' Rw2 U' Uw2 Fw U' Uw Rw' F Rw D2 U Uw Fw D' Rw' Fw' U2 L2 R2 Rw2 B2 R' L' D Uw Fw U' Rw' Uw F' U' D2 R' F' 
40. 1:17.98 R' D Uw U2 R Fw2 Rw L2 Uw2 B' R' Uw2 R D' Uw2 Rw' F Rw2 R' Uw2 U' B Rw' U2 D' Fw F2 Uw' L F' L2 F' R' Uw2 U2 L' D R Fw' B2 
41. 1:26.58 U2 B2 F' Rw' U Uw' R' Uw' Fw' F' D Fw Uw2 B' Uw2 Rw2 U2 R' F B2 R' U' B2 F Fw R U2 Fw L' D2 U2 Fw' D Uw' Rw U Uw2 R2 B' L' 
42. 1:45.58 Fw' B2 Uw L' B' Fw2 U Uw' Fw D' L' U' B Fw L2 Rw2 Fw' L B2 L2 D2 R' Fw' Uw' L2 Uw2 D R' Fw' U L F2 Rw' Uw2 U2 B' Rw' D L2 Uw2 
43. 1:16.56 B' F2 Rw F U' Rw' Uw' F2 D' F L U2 L D2 Rw U L R2 F' U2 Uw' Rw U' D' Fw' U L' Uw2 U D Fw' Uw F2 R U' Fw D B Fw' Uw' 
44. 1:23.92 Fw L' U' Rw Fw2 L' B Fw Rw Fw' D2 U F L' R2 D2 Uw U L2 F' R' B2 D' Fw U2 L' Rw2 D Rw' B L F2 R F Rw' D2 U' F2 B R 
45. 1:35.62 L B L' Uw B2 F R' F' Fw' Rw' D L' Fw U R' D' U L' B2 Uw2 F2 Uw D' Rw' F2 R D' B2 L F' R2 U2 R Uw' L2 Fw R Fw2 Rw2 F' 
46. 1:23.20 R' Uw2 R L2 Rw Uw2 U2 F2 R' Fw2 Rw2 D2 U' R' L B' R Uw' L Rw' U2 R Fw L' D2 L' B' Fw2 D2 U' Uw2 B2 F2 Uw' D' L2 Fw2 Rw' R' F 
47. 1:28.44 R2 L2 D2 Rw2 D2 R Rw' F Rw' R2 U D' Uw2 Rw R2 B2 Uw F2 R' F D' B' L2 Rw2 R Uw' B' Rw' U' Uw2 Fw' Uw' Fw L2 Fw2 F D2 R2 B U' 
48. 1:17.76 U2 Rw D Rw' U' D B2 Rw R F2 D2 Fw2 B Uw' Rw D' B2 Rw2 F' L2 B2 Rw' B L' F D Rw Uw' Fw Rw2 U2 Rw L' Uw' Rw' F' Rw2 Fw L' Rw' 
49. 1:38.94 F L' F D L2 D2 L Rw2 F Rw2 U2 Fw' U B2 R B2 L Rw2 D Fw Rw2 R B' U2 D2 Uw2 F' Fw2 Rw2 D Rw' B' Rw' Uw Fw2 F' R' Fw Rw' D 
50. 1:39.12 B2 U' Uw F D2 R Uw' D2 Fw B' Rw2 Fw' Uw' B2 U2 F2 L B' U2 Uw' R' L Uw D' Fw Rw' B' Rw2 D2 R' F2 Uw' R' D2 R Uw' Rw' B' D' Uw' 
51. 1:22.88 B' L2 R' Fw2 L2 Rw' B2 F2 Uw R U2 R' B' U' F2 R2 B' Fw' R Rw' F' D2 R2 F' Fw2 B R' Fw B2 U' L' D' B L' Fw' F2 Rw' L2 Fw2 D 
52. 1:36.50 R' Rw2 L Fw F2 R Uw' B' U2 Uw B Rw' B Uw F2 Fw' R2 L F' L F' U B' Rw R2 L2 U' Rw2 R2 U2 L Fw' U' B2 U2 B' Rw F' L' D 
53. 1:18.64 D2 L' U Rw Fw2 B2 L D Uw R2 Rw' Uw2 F2 B' L2 D2 Fw2 F2 R F2 Fw L2 R' Rw' F2 U2 Fw B2 L B Uw L F' U' Uw L2 Rw Uw2 R F 
54. 1:28.00 F' Uw F Uw' D2 B2 Uw' L2 Rw2 R' F' U2 Rw2 Uw2 Rw' B Uw L U2 L Rw' Uw R2 Rw B' Rw2 D F2 U' L Fw' Rw2 B' D2 B2 Uw2 U2 Fw D L' 
55. 1:27.42 Fw' B Uw L' Rw' F' R D2 Rw2 F' L D' L Uw2 U2 R' Rw2 B' F Fw2 Rw2 Uw2 L2 F2 B Fw' D' Rw' Fw F2 B2 D Rw Fw Uw' Rw2 Uw' L R' F2 
56. 1:29.56 Uw2 Fw' F' R' B2 Uw Rw' L' B2 R U F' R' F U' Fw2 F L' Fw U2 Uw' F2 L' Uw' L2 Uw2 R' F2 Fw2 R2 L' Rw D2 F' Rw' U' D2 Uw2 Fw2 R 
57. 1:33.70 F L D2 F' U2 L' R2 D' B Fw' U' R U2 D2 Fw B Rw F2 Rw2 R D' U2 Uw R2 Fw D2 F L2 R Rw' Uw' F' R Fw2 Uw L2 Fw B Rw2 R' 
58. 1:29.10 U' F' Fw' L' Uw D2 R' U' B' Uw Rw2 F' Rw2 D' Uw' L' Fw D F' Uw2 R' B2 Uw2 U Fw2 Uw2 B' L' Uw2 F' Fw' R D' Fw' Rw' D' Fw2 Uw2 Fw' F' 
59. 1:23.82 F L' Uw2 L B R B L' R' D2 F' D2 U2 F2 U2 L' R' Uw' F' D' Uw2 L' Rw B L' Fw' D' Uw Fw' L' F D' Fw L' Fw Rw' Fw2 L2 R' B2 
60. 1:21.50 L2 R2 Uw' Fw' L' R2 B2 F D Uw2 U' F2 B2 R Uw R' U2 B2 Rw2 Fw Uw' L2 U' F2 D2 Uw2 U' Rw D2 L' U L B U' F2 Rw2 Uw' D2 L D 
61. 1:23.60 D2 Rw' Fw B2 D' B Uw2 U' Fw F L2 D Rw2 D B' Rw Fw' Rw Fw2 L' F' Fw' D R2 Uw2 F' U' Fw Uw U F' D' R2 L2 U' B2 Uw2 Fw' B2 R



Edit: This was a stackmat session.

First solve was comical. I am so used to hitting the space bar to stop csTimer, I tried to stop the timer with one hand and hit the reset button.


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## mark49152 (Aug 27, 2015)

Logiqx said:


> I've been neglecting my 4x4 recently so I made some time for a session today.
> ...
> First solve was comical. I am so used to hitting the space bar to stop csTimer, I tried to stop the timer with one hand and hit the reset button.



Nice times Mike, and good luck making the average cut. I said I wouldn't set goals for a comp, but I can't help but have a list of things I'd like to achieve. A 3BLD success; 4x4 average; sub-3 min 5x5 single; and sub-20 3x3 average. But I won't be disappointed unless I miss out on all of those 

My first Stackmat sessions were pretty funny too. I did all sorts of silly things and it took an hour or so to get used to it. Certainly it was a good idea to get some practice on the Stackmat before competing.


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## Logiqx (Aug 27, 2015)

mark49152 said:


> I said I wouldn't set goals for a comp, but I can't help but have a list of things I'd like to achieve. A 3BLD success; 4x4 average; sub-3 min 5x5 single; and sub-20 3x3 average. But I won't be disappointed unless I miss out on all of those



Good luck with your goals. They seem quite reasonable to me.

I had a pretty terrible 3x3 session today. I don't know what was up with me... I was just turning too fast, destroying my lookahead. Hopefully I can find my rhythm again tomorrow!

Funny... I had a good 4x4 session (full set of PBs), terrible 3x3 session (21.5 average) followed by a good Pyra session (full set of PBs).


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## MarcelP (Aug 28, 2015)

Logiqx said:


> Funny... I had a good 4x4 session (full set of PBs), terrible 3x3 session (21.5 average) followed by a good Pyra session (full set of PBs).



I have these bad sessions as well. But it can be as wild as doing an 21 seconds Ao50 in the morning and a sub 19 Ao50 in the evening. It all comes down to focus. I really need to be focussed to get good times. 

I have not been practising in a while. I have been doing other stuff like watching TV series (Walking Dead, Under the Dome etc), sport (picked up Judo again) and playing the piano. I think if I keep doing a few averages per week my times should stay allright.. 
BTW, did you guys try the G4 4x4 from Cyclone Boys? It is awesome! No other 4x4 of mine come close. The new Fangshi YieYun is also very nice. I made an unboxing.


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## Logiqx (Aug 28, 2015)

MarcelP said:


> I have these bad sessions as well. But it can be as wild as doing an 21 seconds Ao50 in the morning and a sub 19 Ao50 in the evening. It all comes down to focus. I really need to be focussed to get good times.



I have them occasionally but this one took me surprise. Last week I did not have any sup-20 sessions and despite having a few days off my other events have been ok this week. Today was a little better... 20 solves before work slightly sup-20 and 30 solves during lunch slightly sub-20.

A quick Ao12 on the 4x4 came out at 1:27 with just 3 solves sup-1:30. It'll be nice if I can do a full average in competition! I never did get the Cyclone Boys 4x4. You should come to the UK champs in November and let us try it. 

Funny... it was just a few days ago when I was reviewing my goals for the year and saw you were planning to spend less time cubing this year. You haven't shown many signs of it until now.


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## MarcelP (Aug 28, 2015)

Logiqx said:


> I never did get the Cyclone Boys 4x4. You should come to the UK champs in November and let us try it.



I would love to go to an UK competition but it is not likely that this year that will happen  



Logiqx said:


> Funny... it was just a few days ago when I was reviewing my goals for the year and saw you were planning to spend less time cubing this year. You haven't shown many signs of it until now.


I still enjoy cubing a lot. But I really do not feel the urge to do as many as I used to.


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## mark49152 (Aug 28, 2015)

I'm half way to ABHC so my chances of making it are now better than 50/50.

Marcel - maybe you just need a new challenge to rekindle your enthusiasm. Have you done much 5x5 recently? Or 6x6? How about Clock? 

Or we could have a Marcel's Bar 3BLD race...


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## Logiqx (Aug 28, 2015)

Cool. See you there tomorrow!

Sent from my GT-I9305 using Tapatalk


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## MarcelP (Aug 29, 2015)

mark49152 said:


> Marcel - maybe you just need a new challenge to rekindle your enthusiasm. Have you done much 5x5 recently? Or 6x6? How about Clock?
> 
> Or we could have a Marcel's Bar 3BLD race...



LOL.. I do a few 5X5's per week. I average 5 minutes. That's cool enough for me. Never did clock or intentend to do clock. 6x6 might be interesting. I have solved 6x6 maybe 2 - 3 times in my life. I think, in winter or so I might get back to give Roux or ZZ a new try. These are both very cool methods.

Mark and Micheal enjoy your competition today! I will follow results on cubecomps.com.


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## Logiqx (Aug 29, 2015)

MarcelP said:


> Mark and Micheal enjoy your competition today! I will follow results on cubecomps.com.



Super happy with this my results this morning! We've done 2x2 (5.84/6.87) and 4x4 (1:18.38/1:23.86)

I was surprised to make it through to the second round of 2x2 after my first round performance. The second round was around the same as my global average.

I was very relieved to make the average cut-off for 4x4... I opened up with a 1:46 but followed it with a 1:25:45 despite double parity!

My first four solves on 4x4 were double parity but the last one was only PLL parity. I reckon my global average is around 1:27 right now so very happy with 1:23 average.

Mark not having such a good time given his times at home but with some luck it will change for 3x3 and 3BLD.

http://cubecomps.com/live.php?cid=1088&compid=12


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## mark49152 (Aug 29, 2015)

Logiqx said:


> Mark not having such a good time given his times at home but with some luck it will change for 3x3 and 3BLD.


Yeah 2x2 was embarrassing, I screwed up PBLs on four solves and got a 14 average, but I'm not that bothered because I rarely practise 2x2 and don't take it seriously. I had to look up several PBLs from my cheat sheet while warming up.

4x4 also not great - had shaky hands. 1:31 average, 1:24 best. Bit disappointed - I'm around 1:20 at home and would have liked at least sub-1:30 but never mind.

3BLD was great. Took the first attempt slow and careful and got a 5:29 success. Took a bit more risk with the second and got 4:21. No time for a third. Delighted with that.

Mike did great - no sign of his times being affected by comp nerves .


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## MarcelP (Aug 29, 2015)

Congrats to both of you. Mike is cool like Fonzy when it comes to cubing. But your BLD succes are pretty wild too Mark! Awesome stuff.


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## Logiqx (Aug 29, 2015)

mark49152 said:


> 3BLD was great. Took the first attempt slow and careful and got a 5:29 success. Took a bit more risk with the second and got 4:21. No time for a third. Delighted with that.
> 
> Mike did great - no sign of his times being affected by comp nerves .



Awesome. Two successes in 3BLD and one was fast as well!

Just about able to keep my nerves in check. Comment about Fonzy made me chuckle!

I have decent video footage of my solves which I will try to do something with on Monday.


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## mark49152 (Aug 29, 2015)

MarcelP said:


> Congrats to both of you. Mike is cool like Fonzy when it comes to cubing. But your BLD succes are pretty wild too Mark! Awesome stuff.


One of my solves included the letter pair NL for which I visualised Marcel


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## Logiqx (Aug 29, 2015)

MarcelP said:


> I would love to go to an UK competition but it is not likely that this year that will happen





mark49152 said:


> One of my solves included the letter pair NL for which I visualised Marcel



Looks like you've made it to a UK comp already Marcel!


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## MarcelP (Aug 30, 2015)

mark49152 said:


> ... I visualised Marcel



I bet that was not a pretty sight.. LOL


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## MarcelP (Aug 30, 2015)

Oi Mark.. DNF Rubiks average... What happened? At least you had two super cool BLD success to make it still a great competition.. I hope Mike will have a better average in second round (although the 1st was not bad eighter).


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## Logiqx (Aug 30, 2015)

Yeah. Butchered 3 solves due to rushing. I'll try to do better next round!

Sent from my GT-I9305 using Tapatalk


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## mark49152 (Aug 30, 2015)

MarcelP said:


> I bet that was not a pretty sight.. LOL


Not sure if I remember the order right but the pairs were IC WP NL HG. Marcel (Nederlands) typing on an old 80s word processor with a floating ball of mercury inside (integrated circuit).



MarcelP said:


> Oi Mark.. DNF Rubiks average... What happened? At least you had two super cool BLD success to make it still a great competition.


Oh man, where do I start. I have a 4 hour drive home to agonize over that one. It's been a comp of contrast for me - did awesome at blind and royally screwed up everything else. I entered MBLD at the last minute and got 2/2, and came 4th. Still got 5x5 to go though...


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## MarcelP (Aug 30, 2015)

mark49152 said:


> I entered MBLD at the last minute and got 2/2, and came 4th.



Seriously.. I doubt anyone in the whole world who practiced 3 weeks BLD enters a competition and has two BLD successes and had a MBLD succes. That is freaking awesome! Never mind all the other events. You did well.. I promise.


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## TDM (Aug 30, 2015)

Mark, you're officially better than me at Multi!


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## chtiger (Aug 30, 2015)

mark49152 said:


> I entered MBLD at the last minute and got 2/2, and came 4th.



Awesome. Was this your first ever attempt at a Mbld? First success?


----------



## Logiqx (Aug 30, 2015)

Amazing BLD performance from Mark.

My event summary:

https://www.speedsolving.com/forum/...fordshire-UK&p=1113374&viewfull=1#post1113374


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## mark49152 (Aug 31, 2015)

MarcelP said:


> Seriously.. I doubt anyone in the whole world who practiced 3 weeks BLD enters a competition and has two BLD successes and had a MBLD succes. That is freaking awesome! Never mind all the other events. You did well.. I promise.





TDM said:


> Mark, you're officially better than me at Multi!





chtiger said:


> Awesome. Was this your first ever attempt at a Mbld? First success?



Thanks guys. Yes first attempt. I never had any intention of doing MBLD, ever, but Adam encouraged me to take a shot at it and gave me some really good tips. I admit they were quite easy scrambles though - no parities or flipped edges to remember, not too many cycle breaks, and one cube had two corners solved. So now I'm ranked 17th/26 in the UK and officially better than TDM - silly isn't it . TDM, I hope this motivates you to pull off an awesome PB at your next comp and take your rightful place above me!


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## MarcelP (Aug 31, 2015)

Logiqx said:


> Amazing BLD performance from Mark.
> 
> My event summary:
> 
> https://www.speedsolving.com/forum/...fordshire-UK&p=1113374&viewfull=1#post1113374



All expections met


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## TDM (Aug 31, 2015)

mark49152 said:


> So now I'm ranked 17th/26 in the UK and officially better than TDM - silly isn't it .


Well I personally think you should lost half a point for each unsolved cube (or maybe gain two points per solved cube to keep everything in integers?). That might make things a bit less silly.
(and I definitely don't just think that because of my official results! )



mark49152 said:


> TDM, I hope this motivates you to pull off an awesome PB at your next comp and take your rightful place above me!


I'll try! I still don't know why my accuracy is so bad, but hopefully I'll have sorted that by either November or April, whenever my next competition is.


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## Logiqx (Aug 31, 2015)

MarcelP said:


> All expections met



I'm most pleased with my 4x4 result.






I am currently uploading a video of Mark's MBLD. 

Edit:


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## mark49152 (Aug 31, 2015)

Logiqx said:


> I am currently uploading a video of Mark's MBLD.


Fantastic! Thanks so much for recording and sharing that. Ben, you need to speed up your execution for the sake of your son's arm 

Mike, your solves look very composed and yes I also think the 4x4 result is the most impressive. GJ


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## sneaklyfox (Sep 1, 2015)

Oh my goodness, this thread is still going. I haven't been on the forum in ages. I cube here and there but not too much. What have I missed?


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## MarcelP (Sep 1, 2015)

sneaklyfox said:


> Oh my goodness, this thread is still going. I haven't been on the forum in ages. I cube here and there but not too much. What have I missed?



Oh not much. We are all pretty much sub 10 here  There is a new WR on Rubiks cube. An American and not Feliks  Mark, Mike ( Logiqx) and I are all in the same category (sub 20 -ish) with Mark being the fastest and me the slowest. Mark is a BLD ninja now and Mike is averaging 10 seconds official on Pyra.. So there you are.. LOL

@Mike, great video! Nice quality too. I always film with phone of pciture camera. I need to invest in a decent cam. What do you have for camera?

EDIT, oh and Mark and Mike are fast on 4x4. Maybe even faster than you. Me, I am still around the 1.50 - 2.00 on 4x4.


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## Logiqx (Sep 1, 2015)

mark49152 said:


> Fantastic! Thanks so much for recording and sharing that.
> 
> Mike, your solves look very composed and yes I also think the 4x4 result is the most impressive. GJ



NP. Marcel can also add a face to your name now. 

Perhaps I did slightly too much 4x4 practice and should have spent more time on 3x3 and OH. Most of my OH solves came up with my least favourite OLLs and PLLs so I must drill them before I compete next time. I had one solve which should have been around 30s but I had a mental block on the L-shaped OLL (r2 turns) so I switched to 2-look (haven't done that in 6 months) and in failing to execute the edge alg correctly, I messed up the F2L. It ended up being 46s or so...



sneaklyfox said:


> Oh my goodness, this thread is still going. I haven't been on the forum in ages. I cube here and there but not too much. What have I missed?



The sup-40 community (age) appears to be growing. Mark and I have now started to do competitions. Marcel has two sub-10 singles iirc.



MarcelP said:


> Mark, Mike ( Logiqx) and I are all in the same category (sub 20 -ish) with Mark being the fastest and me the slowest.
> 
> @Mike, great video! Nice quality too. I always film with phone of pciture camera. I need to invest in a decent cam. What do you have for camera?



You're still faster than me on 3x3 Marcel. You're also the one with sub-10 solves and at least one of them on film!

The camera I use as a spectator is a Panasonic HD camcorder. I'll check the model number when I get home but it wasn't hugely expensive when I bought it a few years ago. I need to experiment with the video settings because it has a 1080p setting but it is currently set to 1080i.

The table cam is a GoPro 3+ Black, recording 1080p at 60fps (well 59.94) in wide angle. It was unobtrusive during the competition because I just pressed record walking to the table, placed it at arms length then focused on my solve.


----------



## MarcelP (Sep 1, 2015)

Logiqx said:


> It was unobtrusive during the competition because I just pressed record walking to the table, placed it at arms length then focused on my solve.



Yeah, that is what I want too. No hassle needed when nervous for a solve


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## Logiqx (Sep 1, 2015)

MarcelP said:


> Yeah, that is what I want too. No hassle needed when nervous for a solve



I also toyed with the idea of using my compact camera on a mini-tripod. It may be better for close-ups but it would take more time to set up and the cube could easily be out of frame in early attempts. I figured the GoPro would be the safest option and it's kinda nice to see reactions on film as well.

I didn't edit my conversation with Ollie into my video but it started along the lines of "This may sound strange but I don't expect the older guys to be doing full OLL and PLL". He thought it was cool that I was using full CFOP.


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## MarcelP (Sep 1, 2015)

Logiqx said:


> NP. Marcel can also add a face to your name now.



LOL, yeah. At first I was looking at the wrong person. Not untill halfway when you started filming Mark I realised ahh that's Mark.


----------



## mark49152 (Sep 1, 2015)

sneaklyfox said:


> Oh my goodness, this thread is still going. I haven't been on the forum in ages. I cube here and there but not too much. What have I missed?



Yep still going, the only change is that we've been banished to "off topic" because we never talk about cubing, LOL .



TDM said:


> Well I personally think you should lost half a point for each unsolved cube (or maybe gain two points per solved cube to keep everything in integers?). That might make things a bit less silly.



Well 5/9 is certainly a much more impressive feat than 2/2, but it's also less impressive than 5/5. It makes sense to have a penalty for unsolved cubes (over and above the extra time taken) but I can't see how that penalty could be anything other than arbitrary. 0.5 is just as arbitrary as 1. Anyway, given the way the rules stand, it's not hard to come up with tactics that give you a better chance of a better ranking .



MarcelP said:


> Mark, Mike ( Logiqx) and I are all in the same category (sub 20 -ish) with Mark being the fastest and me the slowest.



I wouldn't agree, I think it's too close to call really. The differences between our PBs are probably less than the differences each of us see from day to day due to variations in form.



Logiqx said:


> I didn't edit my conversation with Ollie into my video but it started along the lines of "This may sound strange but I don't expect the older guys to be doing full OLL and PLL". He thought it was cool that I was using full CFOP.



That's pretty funny. I'm curious why he (or anyone) would think that. A general preconception that older competitors might not take it as seriously maybe?


----------



## MarcelP (Sep 1, 2015)

mark49152 said:


> That's pretty funny. I'm curious why he (or anyone) would think that. A general preconception that older competitors might not take it as seriously maybe?



Well, it is harder for older people to learn complete alg-sets due to work, family etc. I can see why he was surprised. The older people I see on comps (Ron van B excepted) indeed do 4LLL.


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## Logiqx (Sep 1, 2015)

MarcelP said:


> LOL, yeah. At first I was looking at the wrong person. Not untill halfway when you started filming Mark I realised ahh that's Mark.



Yeah. Ben (bubbagrub) is on the left, Bertie (Berd) is on the right and Mark is hiding at the back.



mark49152 said:


> That's pretty funny. I'm curious why he (or anyone) would think that. A general preconception that older competitors might not take it as seriously maybe?



Perhaps an assumption that we have better things to do with our time than play with plastic toys. 

Like Marcel says... he probably doesn't see the older guys doing full CFOP very often and 4LLL or even beginner LL is probably more common.


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## TDM (Sep 1, 2015)

mark49152 said:


> Well 5/9 is certainly a much more impressive feat than 2/2, but it's also less impressive than 5/5. It makes sense to have a penalty for unsolved cubes (over and above the extra time taken) but I can't see how that penalty could be anything other than arbitrary. 0.5 is just as arbitrary as 1. Anyway, given the way the rules stand, it's not hard to come up with tactics that give you a better chance of a better ranking .


I guess it's as arbitrary as saying which results you think are more impressive  Having -0.5 for unsolved cubes does put 5/9 between 2/2 and 5/5, which is where I think it should go. But yes, I don't really think that the current rules will change.


----------



## bubbagrub (Sep 1, 2015)

mark49152 said:


> Fantastic! Thanks so much for recording and sharing that. Ben, you need to speed up your execution for the sake of your son's arm



Yes -- thanks so much for that Mike -- it's great to have it on video. And Mark, yes, I did feel bad watching that through. He did a good job keeping the paper up, but perhaps I'll ask someone else to judge next time!


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## mark49152 (Sep 1, 2015)

TDM said:


> I guess it's as arbitrary as saying which results you think are more impressive  .


Well you could interpret it that way, but I did mean "impressive" in an objective sense for those examples, i.e. 5/5 should score more than 5/9, for obvious reasons. Now whether 5/5 is more/less impressive than 6/7 is a different question


----------



## TDM (Sep 1, 2015)

mark49152 said:


> Well you could interpret it that way, but I did mean "impressive" in an objective sense for those examples, i.e. 5/5 should score more than 5/9, for obvious reasons. Now whether 5/5 is more/less impressive than 6/7 is a different question



Yep, it's difficult to judge. I'd say 6/7 would be more "impressive" myself, but I know others would disagree.


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## Logiqx (Sep 1, 2015)

MarcelP said:


> @Mike, great video! Nice quality too. I always film with phone of pciture camera. I need to invest in a decent cam. What do you have for camera?



My camcorder is a Panasonic HC-V510 and cost £160 in May 2014.

http://www.panasonic.com/my/consumer/cameras-camcorders/camcorders/full-hd-camcorders/hc-v510.html


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## EvilGnome6 (Sep 1, 2015)

MarcelP said:


> BTW, did you guys try the G4 4x4 from Cyclone Boys? It is awesome! No other 4x4 of mine come close. The new Fangshi YieYun is also very nice. I made an unboxing.



I really like the G4. It's the first 4x4 that doesn't catch on the internals. I still need to get used to the size but I don't think that will be a problem. 

Anyway, first time posting to this epic thread. My name is Mike. I'm 42 and do 2x2 through 7x7. I'm not very fast but I know full OLL, PLL and CLL and am learning more algorithms for OH and alternates for big cubes.


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## Logiqx (Sep 1, 2015)

EvilGnome6 said:


> Anyway, first time posting to this epic thread. My name is Mike. I'm 42 and do 2x2 through 7x7. I'm not very fast but I know full OLL, PLL and CLL and am learning more algorithms for OH and alternates for big cubes.



Hey Mike. Welcome to the thread. 

Judging by your official times it looks like you're faster than the rest of us on big cubes.


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## EvilGnome6 (Sep 1, 2015)

Logiqx said:


> Judging by your official times it looks like you're faster than the rest of us on big cubes.



Possibly. My 3x3 has pretty much flatlined at sub 28 but I'm still making consistent progress on the big cubes. It looks like I'll be averaging sub 1:00/2:00/4:00/7:00 on 4/5/6/7 in a few months if progress continues. Go figure.


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## MarcelP (Sep 2, 2015)

EvilGnome6 said:


> I really like the G4. It's the first 4x4 that doesn't catch on the internals. I still need to get used to the size but I don't think that will be a problem.
> 
> Anyway, first time posting to this epic thread. My name is Mike. I'm 42 and do 2x2 through 7x7. I'm not very fast but I know full OLL, PLL and CLL and am learning more algorithms for OH and alternates for big cubes.



Hi Mike, welcome here. Nice to see another 40-er here. 

I have already got used to the smaller size of G4 so that AoSu feels really akward.  Their 5x5 is also very very awesome.


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## EvilGnome6 (Sep 2, 2015)

MarcelP said:


> I have already got used to the smaller size of G4 so that AoSu feels really akward.  Their 5x5 is also very very awesome.



I think the CB 5x5 is excellent, too but I have a hard time controlling it. Maybe I need to overlube it a bit. I tightened it as much as possible already. It's still the AoChuang for me but that's not a flawless cube, either. I'm curious what the YuXin 5x5 will be like.


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## Jason Green (Sep 2, 2015)

Hi I'm Jason from Texas. I'm 40 and recently started working on cubing for speed. I'm averaging about 42 seconds at the moment for 3x3. Just joining this thread to "hang out" with some fellow old folks.


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## Schmidt (Sep 2, 2015)

Don't worry about it, you'll be faster than your age in no time


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## Logiqx (Sep 2, 2015)

Ok. I've been inspired to dig my 5x5x5 out of my cube graveyard and do some solves... first time in 6 months.

PBs for single and Ao5 - 3:15.93 and 3:39.55. I guess my recent 4x4 practice has helped my 5x5x5.


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## MarcelP (Sep 2, 2015)

Jason Green said:


> Hi I'm Jason from Texas. I'm 40 and recently started working on cubing for speed. I'm averaging about 42 seconds at the moment for 3x3. Just joining this thread to "hang out" with some fellow old folks.


Hi Jason, welcome!


Schmidt said:


> Don't worry about it, you'll be faster than your age in no time



LOL, two whole seconds?



Logiqx said:


> Ok. I've been inspired to dig my 5x5x5 out of my cube graveyard and do some solves... first time in 6 months.
> 
> PBs for single and Ao5 - 3:15.93 and 3:39.55. I guess my recent 4x4 practice has helped my 5x5x5.



I still suck big time at 5x5.. but I enjoy it..


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## Logiqx (Sep 2, 2015)

MarcelP said:


> I still suck big time at 5x5.. but I enjoy it..



I'm going to start practicing and see what happens to my times. I'm barely sub-4 at the moment but I want to get down to sub-3. It's going to require a lot of practice!


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## mark49152 (Sep 3, 2015)

Welcome Jason and Mike, always nice to see more oldies on board. Suggestion: maybe we should ask a mod to rename this thread to "older cubers discussion" or similar, and move it out of off-topic into one of the general subgroups?

Nice to see you picking up 5x5 again, Mike G


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## EvilGnome6 (Sep 3, 2015)

mark49152 said:


> Welcome Jason and Mike, always nice to see more oldies on board. Suggestion: maybe we should ask a mod to rename this thread to "older cubers discussion" or similar, and move it out of off-topic into one of the general subgroups?



That's a good idea. I didn't post here for a long time because I felt like I was intruding or something.

I have long been arguing in favor of an official WCA "masters" division for competitors over 35 or 40. Age brackets are very common in other competitive activities ranging from Olympic Weightlifting to Chess.


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## MarcelP (Sep 3, 2015)

I think it is a great idea to rename the thread. How shall I go about it? And do you all like 'Older cubers discussion'?


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## Logiqx (Sep 3, 2015)

MarcelP said:


> I think it is a great idea to rename the thread. How shall I go about it? And do you all like 'Older cubers discussion'?



I was just thinking the same thing myself yesterday. "Older cubers discussion" is fine as a title.



EvilGnome6 said:


> That's a good idea. I didn't post here for a long time because I felt like I was intruding or something.



I felt the same before I started posting. Hopefully a change of title will encourage others to join in the discussion. 



EvilGnome6 said:


> I have long been arguing in favor of an official WCA "masters" division for competitors over 35 or 40



I'm all in favour of that idea. The WCA do not share age information at the moment but they do plan to have a opt-in system in the future.

I've updated my how fast are the over 40's thread using the latest WCA data.


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## mark49152 (Sep 3, 2015)

MarcelP said:


> I think it is a great idea to rename the thread. How shall I go about it? And do you all like 'Older cubers discussion'?


Maybe it should indicate what older means, like 40s, as to some people on here "older" means 25+


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## Logiqx (Sep 3, 2015)

mark49152 said:


> Maybe it should indicate what older means, like 40s, as to some people on here "older" means 25+



That's a fair point...


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## MarcelP (Sep 3, 2015)

I think anyone is welcome. If a 25 year old feels he/she belongs to the older cubers I would gladly see him here.


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## mark49152 (Sep 3, 2015)

MarcelP said:


> I think anyone is welcome. If a 25 year old feels he/she belongs to the older cubers I would gladly see him here.


That's a fair point too


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## chtiger (Sep 3, 2015)

Logiqx said:


> My event summary:
> 
> https://www.speedsolving.com/forum/...fordshire-UK&p=1113374&viewfull=1#post1113374


Late congrats on going 5/5 on your first competition goals.

Question for Mark or anyone else who is around 3-4 minute 3bld. How long does it take you to trace the pieces if you aren't trying to remember them? I don't mean just flying thru it visually (unless that's how you memo), but say the letters to yourself, pair them up or however you would normally memo, but don't actually try to memorize anything.


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## mark49152 (Sep 4, 2015)

chtiger said:


> Question for Mark or anyone else who is around 3-4 minute 3bld. How long does it take you to trace the pieces if you aren't trying to remember them? I don't mean just flying thru it visually (unless that's how you memo), but say the letters to yourself, pair them up or however you would normally memo, but don't actually try to memorize anything.


Just did an ao5 and it was about 1:20. The tracing of cycles seems fairly quick, it seems to be the retracing after a cycle break to identify untouched pieces that slows me down.

Definitely I will practise this step independently of actual memo or solving, as that seems like way too long.


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## Jason Green (Sep 4, 2015)

I see it has been renamed, which is cool. Although I think it's also cool to use the original thread name as kind of "cultish" name. You know refer to all us oldies as a "Marcel from Holland"!  It would be fun to be at a competition and say, "are you a Marcel from Holland" to someone and have them say yes! And then go on to beat all the kids and set new world records of course... Yes I have an active imagination


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## Isaac Lai (Sep 4, 2015)

Jason Green said:


> I see it has been renamed, which is cool. Although I think it's also cool to use the original thread name as kind of "cultish" name. You know refer to all us oldies as a "Marcel from Poland"!  It would be fun to be at a competition and say, "are you a Marcel from Poland" to someone and have them say yes! And then go on to beat all the kids and set new world records of course... Yes I have an active imagination



Lol Holland=/=Poland


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## Jason Green (Sep 4, 2015)

Isaac Lai said:


> Lol Holland=/=Poland


Ha sorry! See what happens when you're old!?


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## MarcelP (Sep 4, 2015)

Jason Green said:


> It would be fun to be at a competition and say, "are you a Marcel from Holland" to someone and have them say yes! And then go on to beat all the kids and set new world records of course... Yes I have an active imagination



LOL. I have had many people come up to me and ask me if I am Marcel from Holland. I think that is pretty cool 



Isaac Lai said:


> Lol Holland=/=Poland



No, never been to Poland.


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## moralsh (Sep 4, 2015)

Heh, I like the new thread title, now if the move to genereal cubing discussion, it would be awesome 



chtiger said:


> Question for Mark or anyone else who is around 3-4 minute 3bld. How long does it take you to trace the pieces if you aren't trying to remember them? I don't mean just flying thru it visually (unless that's how you memo), but say the letters to yourself, pair them up or however you would normally memo, but don't actually try to memorize anything.



I'm a little bit faster (I've been sub 2, but I'm around 2:20 now), to me tracing takes a little less than 30 seconds with corners taking a little less of 10 seconds of that. Reviewing often takes some 20-30 more seconds and the execution takes the rest.

Mark, Your 2/2 also beats my 3/5, I also have an official 3/6 in which 3 cubes where off by the M2 parity, one of them I completely forgot about it and picked a solved cube to do the parity that I didn't forgot of 

Welcome to all the new oldies!


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## mark49152 (Sep 4, 2015)

moralsh said:


> Mark, Your 2/2 also beats my 3/5, I also have an official 3/6 in which 3 cubes where off by the M2 parity, one of them I completely forgot about it and picked a solved cube to do the parity that I didn't forgot of


Ouch! That must have been annoying. 

There's no MBLD at Cuthberts' Open so I have started learning 4BLD. I'm hooked on BLD


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## TDM (Sep 4, 2015)

moralsh said:


> Heh, I like the new thread title, now if the move to genereal cubing discussion, it would be awesome



Looks like it's been done!

... and now I'll never get to know what my 6000th post was


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## Rastinha (Sep 4, 2015)

Hello I'm Hannah from NZ  I'm 30 years old so thought I would drop by and say hi!


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## h2f (Sep 4, 2015)

Im form Poland. 

Wysłane z mojego GT-S7580 przy użyciu Tapatalka


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## MarcelP (Sep 4, 2015)

Rastinha said:


> Hello I'm Hannah from NZ  I'm 30 years old so thought I would drop by and say hi!



Older cubers are rare, but looking at your name I suspect you are female. And older female cubers are even more rare. LOL.. Welcome.


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## SenorJuan (Sep 4, 2015)

HeHe, Marcel. You need to be more precise, use an internationally agreed standard, like here, for example:
http://coins.thefuntimesguide.com/2010/04/rare_us_coins.php


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## Jason Green (Sep 4, 2015)

SenorJuan said:


> HeHe, Marcel. You need to be more precise, use an internationally agreed standard, like here, for example:
> http://coins.thefuntimesguide.com/2010/04/rare_us_coins.php


Well for any single competition she might be an R-7 or even R-8. Globally probably much lower.


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## Logiqx (Sep 5, 2015)

Rastinha said:


> Hello I'm Hannah from NZ  I'm 30 years old so thought I would drop by and say hi!



Hello and welcome to the forum.

Have you been cubing for long?


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## Rastinha (Sep 6, 2015)

I have been cubing for just over a week! 2 days of beginners method before changing my mind and just on one week of CFOP/Fridrich. Pretty addicted but a bit fumbly (my cube is quite flexible so I get it locked up quite frequently) so I'm averaging around 1min20 at the moment. Aiming to be under 1 min in another week if I can  I'm finally having moments where my brain is working faster than my hands, so now it's time to train up my finger tricks and get better at turning accurately. Or be brave enough to take my cube apart and see if I can make it tighter or something.

I teach computer science at a high school and some of my students started bringing cubes to school, so decided to tick it off my bucket list 

Yeah I'm sure my type are not R7 or R8 globally, but based on the chances of me running into another one I'd say we're pretty few and far between!


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## Jason Green (Sep 6, 2015)

Rastinha said:


> Or be brave enough to take my cube apart and see if I can make it tighter or something.


There are lots of good cubes that are inexpensive online too. I ordered three when I started learning CFOP, my favorite is a New Island stickerless right now. It has easily adjustable tension, and I also got some cube lube which helps (Maru). My tension is loose enough that I will pop it during a solve very rarely, probably once in 100 tries or less.


----------



## muchacho (Sep 7, 2015)

How did you (old ones) get into speed cubing?

I had a rubiks cube when I were young but never solved it. Three months ago I was looking (in banggood.com) for a present for my 4 years old niece, I saw a 2x2 and thought it should be easy enough for her. When I received it I searched for videos on how to solve it (resulted to not be as easy as I thought), and I also encounter a video of someone solving a 3x3 in less than 10 seconds, I was hooked right there.


----------



## Jason Green (Sep 7, 2015)

muchacho said:


> How did you (old ones) get into speed cubing?
> 
> I had a rubiks cube when I were young but never solved it. Three months ago I was looking (in banggood.com) for a present for my 4 years old niece, I saw a 2x2 and thought it should be easy enough for her. When I received it I searched for videos on how to solve it (resulted to not be as easy as I thought), and I also encounter a video of someone solving a 3x3 in less than 10 seconds, I was hooked right there.


Here's my story, although I'm down to around 41 seconds now. 

https://www.speedsolving.com/forum/showthread.php?t=54733


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## Rastinha (Sep 7, 2015)

Jason Green said:


> There are lots of good cubes that are inexpensive online too. I ordered three when I started learning CFOP, my favorite is a New Island stickerless right now. It has easily adjustable tension, and I also got some cube lube which helps (Maru). My tension is loose enough that I will pop it during a solve very rarely, probably once in 100 tries or less.



I have a Cyclone Boys stickerless, which is pretty slick but the flexibility get me jammed up. I think I need to practice being more accurate with my turning, but at least my brain is starting to be faster than my hands!

When I have a bit of spare cash I'll probably order a few online, thinking a Gans 357 and maybe a MoYu one, based on my "extensive knowledge" gained from youtube, haha. The closest place I can get them from is Australia by the looks.

Fort Worth, huh? My dad's side of the family lives there


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## Jason Green (Sep 7, 2015)

Rastinha said:


> I have a Cyclone Boys stickerless, which is pretty slick but the flexibility get me jammed up. I think I need to practice being more accurate with my turning, but at least my brain is starting to be faster than my hands!
> 
> When I have a bit of spare cash I'll probably order a few online, thinking a Gans 357 and maybe a MoYu one, based on my "extensive knowledge" gained from youtube, haha. The closest place I can get them from is Australia by the looks.
> 
> Fort Worth, huh? My dad's side of the family lives there


Cool, let me know if you ever visit. We can meet up and have some races.


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## moralsh (Sep 7, 2015)

muchacho said:


> How did you (old ones) get into speed cubing?
> 
> I had a rubiks cube when I were young but never solved it. Three months ago I was looking (in banggood.com) for a present for my 4 years old niece, I saw a 2x2 and thought it should be easy enough for her. When I received it I searched for videos on how to solve it (resulted to not be as easy as I thought), and I also encounter a video of someone solving a 3x3 in less than 10 seconds, I was hooked right there.



Hola Muchacho!

My story is in my own thread here in speedsolving , I was 10 seconds slower back then  and even slower if you look at the first pages of this very tread, the video of Feliks' 5.66 also played a strong part in getting me into speedsolving. 

And Still improving!


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## Logiqx (Sep 7, 2015)

I can't find my story with the forum search. Either the search index is broken or the post has gone!

I got into cubing when my nephew received one for Christmas a few years ago. I could only do one side so I decided to learn it that night and be able to solve his cube the next day. I didn't know how enjoyable and addictive it would turn out to be for me! I never intended to get into speed solving and I certainly didn't plan to compete... one thing just lead to another.


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## Rastinha (Sep 8, 2015)

Do you guys use any particular apps/software to record all of your averages that I see in your signatures? I downloaded a couple of timers for Android, and one gives my averages out of last 5 and 10, and lifetime, but that was the best I could find so far.

For those of you who have been to competitions, are the young folks pretty accepting of older folks, or are we like the weird old people in the corner? Haha


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## EvilGnome6 (Sep 8, 2015)

Rastinha said:


> Do you guys use any particular apps/software to record all of your averages that I see in your signatures? I downloaded a couple of timers for Android, and one gives my averages out of last 5 and 10, and lifetime, but that was the best I could find so far.



http://www.cubemania.org is a nice browser based one for keeping long term trends as well as PBs.
On Android, I've switched around a bit but I'm currently liking PlusTimer.



> For those of you who have been to competitions, are the young folks pretty accepting of older folks, or are we like the weird old people in the corner? Haha



It's a little bit awkward but the kids are generally really nice and you can always bond more with the parents and the older cubers. I enjoy the comps so much that I'll be hosting my own two months.


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## mark49152 (Sep 8, 2015)

Rastinha said:


> For those of you who have been to competitions, are the young folks pretty accepting of older folks, or are we like the weird old people in the corner? Haha


Everyone's been really nice at the two comps I've been to. That doesn't mean I'm not still the weird old guy in the corner though .

Brief progress update on my blind ninja project: got my first 3BLD sub-3 today by a mile - 2:37. I'm working on faster memo as that is what is really killing my times. In 4BLD, I'm learning the piece types separately, and had my first centres successes this weekend. My 3x3 speed averages are suffering from lack of practice - haven't had a sub-19 for weeks now! Also bought a new Aosu because I couldn't restore my old one to health, and I want to beat Mike's average at UKC


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## MarcelP (Sep 8, 2015)

mark49152 said:


> Everyone's been really nice at the two comps I've been to. That doesn't mean I'm not still the weird old guy in the corner though .
> 
> Brief progress update on my blind ninja project: got my first 3BLD sub-3 today by a mile - 2:37. I'm working on faster memo as that is what is really killing my times. In 4BLD, I'm learning the piece types separately, and had my first centres successes this weekend. My 3x3 speed averages are suffering from lack of practice - haven't had a sub-19 for weeks now! Also bought a new Aosu because I couldn't restore my old one to health, and I want to beat Mike's average at UKC


It is really awesome to see your BLD enthusiasm and mind blowing result (I am talking about MBLD success on first try AT COMPETITION). Keep it up and you will be world class Mark!


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## MarcelP (Sep 8, 2015)

Rastinha said:


> I have a Cyclone Boys stickerless, which is pretty slick but the flexibility get me jammed up. I think I need to practice being more accurate with my turning, but at least my brain is starting to be faster than my hands!
> 
> When I have a bit of spare cash I'll probably order a few online, thinking a Gans 357 and maybe a MoYu one, based on my "extensive knowledge" gained from youtube, haha. The closest place I can get them from is Australia by the looks.
> 
> Fort Worth, huh? My dad's side of the family lives there




Just tighten the Cyclone Boys and it will be awesome. Thighten up to the point where it will not cut 45 degrees but only 40 or so.. And.. if you go for a Gans, go for the 356. It is waaaay better than the 357. It is my main and I broke all my PB's including PB single.


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## mark49152 (Sep 8, 2015)

MarcelP said:


> It is really awesome to see your BLD enthusiasm and mind blowing result (I am talking about MBLD success on first try AT COMPETITION). Keep it up and you will be world class Mark!


LOL, cheers, but you've seen how fast those guys are, right? I would struggle to solve Ollie's 25 cubes within the hour with M2/OP sighted, with zero memo time . How he and Maskow and others can do so many at such speed is incredible. 41 is an average of <1:28 per cube!

Anyway, even at my level it's nice to have an event with an added dimension of success that isn't just about speed, given that my creaky old fingers are reaching their limit - and it's great fun.

Which comp is it you're going to, Dutch Nationals or Dutch Open? Any goals?


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## MarcelP (Sep 8, 2015)

mark49152 said:


> LOL, cheers, but you've seen how fast those guys are, right?



Yeah, but you would be better than 95% of the people on your competition. And it will take some while to become world class, but being sub 1 sounds very easy for you. 



mark49152 said:


> Which comp is it you're going to, Dutch Nationals or Dutch Open? Any goals?



Both, and I have no goals other than having a nice single PB or so.  I doubt I will be breaking my 22.xx average because at home with no stress and none shaking hands I am just a tad bit faster  That 22 average was a great achievement


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## mark49152 (Sep 8, 2015)

MarcelP said:


> Both, and I have no goals other than having a nice single PB or so.  I doubt I will be breaking my 22.xx average because at home with no stress and none shaking hands I am just a tad bit faster  That 22 average was a great achievement


Having no goals is good, although difficult, since it's hard not to have desires that become goals. 

Actually I think this is why I messed up ABHC. At my first comp, I had no expectations - I had no idea how well I would do. So I just relaxed and solved, and it was fine. At ABHC, I put pressure on myself - I had official PBs already, and I wanted to do better. I rushed, my hands went shaky, the solves started getting messy, so I rushed some more. On 2x2 I screwed up four PBLs in five solves. On 3x3 I spasmed and DNFed a J-perm and an R-perm - actually failed to even complete the algs before throwing the cube and smacking the timer. Truly awful.

Except, of course, on BLD, where it was my first time, I had no expectations, relaxed, and it went fine. I hope that doesn't mean at my next comp I will screw up everything! Maybe I should take up Pyraminx or Skewb so that I can do OK at something .


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## Logiqx (Sep 8, 2015)

Rastinha said:


> Do you guys use any particular apps/software to record all of your averages that I see in your signatures? I downloaded a couple of timers for Android, and one gives my averages out of last 5 and 10, and lifetime, but that was the best I could find so far.



For timers, I use KingEn on Android, DCTimer on iOS and csTimer (web timer) on Windows. I just record a summary of each session in Excel (i.e. 1/5/12/50/100/session) so that I can produce stats and graphs once in a while.



Rastinha said:


> For those of you who have been to competitions, are the young folks pretty accepting of older folks, or are we like the weird old people in the corner? Haha



Everyone was friendly at the ABHC competition I did with Mark and the same was true when I was filmed at another event last year. Older cubers are definitely in the minority but it's a lot of fun attending a competition.



mark49152 said:


> Also bought a new Aosu because I couldn't restore my old one to health, and I want to beat Mike's average at UKC



LOL. I never imagined that average leading up to the ABHC. I've not done much cubing since ABHC but I'm trying to improve my 5x5 skills.


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## MarcelP (Sep 8, 2015)

mark49152 said:


> Maybe I should take up Pyraminx or Skewb so that I can do OK at something .



2X2, Pyra and Skewb are events that are easy to learn, but hard to do well in. The slightest mistake will double your time. Where a mistake on 3x3 (with me) still can result in an 18 seconds solve.


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## Logiqx (Sep 8, 2015)

mark49152 said:


> Maybe I should take up Pyraminx or Skewb so that I can do OK at something .



If you take up Pyra and beat my average on your first attempt, I'll be most upset.


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## MarcelP (Sep 8, 2015)

Logiqx said:


> If you take up Pyra and beat my average on your first attempt, I'll be most upset.



LOL, I have a 8.xx single but an 23.xx average.. I will probably never come even close to your 10.xx. But maybe Mark has Pyra talent too.


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## mark49152 (Sep 8, 2015)

MarcelP said:


> But maybe Mark has Pyra talent too.


Evidently I only have talent in an event the first time I compete in it. Eventually I will get to Clock...


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## MarcelP (Sep 8, 2015)

mark49152 said:


> Evidently I only have talent in an event the first time I compete in it. Eventually I will get to Clock...



LOL, that's a curse. Only doing OK on the first time.. LOL


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## mark49152 (Sep 8, 2015)

Logiqx said:


> I'm trying to improve my 5x5 skills.


How are you getting on? My very last solve at AHBC was a comedy <MU> U-perm fail where I had to repair the cube intuitively then do a Z-perm. One of my resolutions for the next comp is to learn the <RU> EPLLs.


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## Logiqx (Sep 8, 2015)

mark49152 said:


> How are you getting on? My very last solve at AHBC was a comedy <MU> U-perm fail where I had to repair the cube intuitively then do a Z-perm. One of my resolutions for the next comp is to learn the <RU> EPLLs.



Well, I'm faster than I was when I was trying back in February!

I've only done untimed solves this week but not many to be honest. I'll try to do a timed session later this week and let you know how I get on... sub-3:30 is my first goal and my last session was 3:42.


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## mark49152 (Sep 9, 2015)

Just had my first 4BLD success! Didn't time it though, because I didn't decide to attempt the full solve until after centres memo. Think it was about 30-40 minutes.


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## Jason Green (Sep 9, 2015)

Hey guys, I had my first practice night averaging sub 40 tonight. I figured I'd share here, because if I post anywhere else no one comments = kids staring at their phone thinking "this guy is really old". [emoji14]

Out of 56 solves, 37 were under 40, and my overall average was 38 something. I was very excited because I had been inching up on 40 seconds average for several days, but not getting under it! I think low was 31 and high 44.xx.

At this point I do not finish solves if I screw them up. Part of my thinking is that as I improve so will my tendency to screw up. For example if I execute the wrong G-Perm I usually just quit, I don't want to count an average with two Perms in it.  Or once tonight I got to my last F2L pair and saw I had my green-white and blue-white edges swapped... fail! It's kind of a false average to that degree, but I don't care.


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## Rastinha (Sep 9, 2015)

Jason Green said:


> At this point I do not finish solves if I screw them up. Part of my thinking is that as I improve so will my tendency to screw up... It's kind of a false average to that degree, but I don't care.



I've been doing the same thing, but mainly because of my tendency to go "yargh" and get all flustered when I mess up, adding like 10 seconds on, plus the extra move. I'm trying to get more efficient at my F2L as that is quite slow at the moment, so if I mess up before then I usually quit and start again.

Sounds like you had a good session, measurable progress is pretty satisfying huh?

I was giving myself until Thursday to get a time under 1 min, and I got it last night (Tuesday) with a 58.33 - finally milliseconds worth counting! I am also averaging in the 1:07ish region, pretty consistently around that time and only a couple under a minute. BUT I also got lucky with a PLL skip I think this morning and got a 48.09! Pretty happy with that as a PB for less than 2 weeks in.

I filmed a 1:02.xx solve and then edited out all the bits where I sat there thinking and not turning anything, and my solve was around 33 seconds, so I can see heaps of room for improvement just by looking ahead. And my moves are slow as, so need to train up these fingers! I bought a MoYu mini as I have freakishly small hands, to see if that helps at all  Just have to wait for it to get here from Aussie.


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## Rastinha (Sep 9, 2015)

MarcelP said:


> Just tighten the Cyclone Boys and it will be awesome. Thighten up to the point where it will not cut 45 degrees but only 40 or so.. And.. if you go for a Gans, go for the 356. It is waaaay better than the 357. It is my main and I broke all my PB's including PB single.



Damn, I bought a 357 because it was cheaper and I watched some videos and the reviews reckoned the 356 was a bit more flexi/less stable. I figured my Cyclone boys one was flexi enough so I would go for one with a different feel. Oh well, next time!


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## h2f (Sep 9, 2015)

I remind about myself. I'm happy Marcel has changed the title of the thread. I'm 41 and I'm in speedcubing for 2 years. With CFOP I'm sub-25 (maybe 22 now) but I've switched Roux and I'm sub-30 - closing to sub-25. I'm focused on blind events: 3bld, 4bld, 5bld and multibld. In 3bld I solve with M2/3style. In multibld I did 7/7. My goal is to make 13 cubes. I hope this gonna happen in few weeks. I'm going to do it after I do 9/9. I like to read the thread but wrote only few posts in here.


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## Logiqx (Sep 9, 2015)

Well done everyone on your recent successes.

Jason: Hopefully you'll be sub-30 in a few weeks / months. It all depends on how much practice you put in. 
Rastinha: Do you know 4LLL algs yet? It's time to learn them as well as learning proper F2L (corner/edge pairs) if you are currently using beginner method (corners then edges)
Mark: 4BLD success at your next competition plz.


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## SenorJuan (Sep 9, 2015)

I suppose I should introduce myself. I'm sure I qualify as old, now my age starts with a 5. I've been speedcubing since 1980, when my entire school was obsessed with the cube, and I eventually caught the bug after being lent one (with crib sheet) for a week. What do you want for Christmas? A Rubik's Cube! I was competent enough at it, though didn't get my first sub-30 solve until 1985 while at college. Thanks to course-mate Chris F. for inspiring me - he could often sub-30 with a corners-first method.
I just maintained my basic skills enough to entertain workmates, and made no more progress until I got hold of a copy of "Rubik's Cubic Compendium" in the early 90's. That gave me some last-layer strategies that got me the odd low-20's solves.
When I discovered speedcubing.com in about 2001 I liked the challenge of "Fridrich F2L", even though I was a pretty good LBL/keyhole solver.
I struggled with it, to be honest.
The Hardwick-Makky one-handed contest inspired me to learn OH in 2003. I liked the fact that there was almost no guides/documentation/etc to OH solving, I had to struggle to work out 'how' from scratch. Even which hand to use. But I was eventually able to show off regular sub-60 solves to a friend (who's a lapsed 1980's cuber). He's left-handed, and still doesn't get why a total 'righty' like me would choose to do something as complex as cube-solving, with my left hand....
In 2009 I bought a Sheng-En Type F. Even though it couldn't 'reverse cut' corners, I persevered with it, and re-learned proper Cross/F2L, eventually scoring my first sub-20 2H solve, and sub-40 OH.
I'm currently using a Zhanchi. I rarely 2H solve now, I'm plain clumsy. But I'm enthusiastic about OH, and I'm closing in on a sub-20.

I live in the same town as Mr. Logiqx, it seems. Hello Mike! I hope to attend the UK Champs to watch, not sure about competing, though....


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## Logiqx (Sep 9, 2015)

SenorJuan said:


> I suppose I should introduce myself.
> ...
> I live in the same town as Mr. Logiqx, it seems. Hello Mike! I hope to attend the UK Champs to watch, not sure about competing, though....



Cool history and interesting to hear you live in the same town as me.

Maybe you should consider registering for the UKC... I'm sure you'd find it a lot of fun!


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## mark49152 (Sep 9, 2015)

Welcome SenorJuan, you sound like a cubing veteran. You should definitely compete! Nice to see a few new people on this thread, I'm glad it was moved/renamed.

Tried another 4BLD before work - success in 26:53. Execution was about 9 minutes. It's actually not that difficult, just a few extra algs and an awful lot to remember. For example every piece type (centres, wings, corners) can have parity independently. Also it's rather fiddly, with lots of slice moves, and requires a great deal of care and concentration not to make mistakes. Verdict: I like it, and will give it a shot at my next comp, but will take it steady and aim for accuracy not speed


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## moralsh (Sep 9, 2015)

Mark, what Method are you using for centers? (I suppose r2 and OP for wings and corners). I'm sticking with center conmutators for both 4BLD and 5BLD but I feel my execution is slower because of that. I think Comms has more potential, but you need to practice it a lot to really take advantage of it. 

Senor Juan and others, welcome!

h2f, you need to get out of Poland to get some averages on your profile, I whined about spanish cutoffs until I saw polish ones.


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## mark49152 (Sep 9, 2015)

moralsh said:


> Mark, what Method are you using for centers? (I suppose r2 and OP for wings and corners).


I'm using U2/r2/OP and solving in that order. 

For centres I pick the orientation with most solved pieces overall, but try to avoid solved pieces in U and maximize solved pieces in D if possible. Then when selecting a target on each side I try to leave the U pieces until last. Generally I can avoid cycle breaks that way, and thinking carefully about tracing a path to do that also helps me avoid mistakes like picking the same target twice. In most cases centres seem to need about 7-8 letter pairs.

For corners I have started learning some easy commutators and corner twists to speed up my 3BLD, but for 4BLD I'm taking no risks and doing pure vanilla OP.


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## h2f (Sep 9, 2015)

> h2f, you need to get out of Poland to get some averages on your profile, I whined about spanish cutoffs until I saw polish ones.



Yes, you're right, they are very high. I can't do ao5 in 4x4 altough I'm 1:20.



mark49152 said:


> I'm using U2/r2/OP and solving in that order.
> 
> For centres I pick the orientation with most solved pieces overall, but try to avoid solved pieces in U and maximize solved pieces in D if possible. Then when selecting a target on each side I try to leave the U pieces until last. Generally I can avoid cycle breaks that way, and thinking carefully about tracing a path to do that also helps me avoid mistakes like picking the same target twice. In most cases centres seem to need about 7-8 letter pairs.
> 
> For corners I have started learning some easy commutators and corner twists to speed up my 3BLD, but for 4BLD I'm taking no risks and doing pure vanilla OP.



Centers with comms are much easier - it's obvious. Have you read Ollie's thread about it? There are only few cases for comms. Others are setups + the case you know. 
Grzegorz Jałocha told me - and he says the same in his polish tutorial - the he did centers always with the same rule: starting from the same point on each side and adding pieces clockwise. If the piece is correct he was starting from another etc. Of course D and U centers are easier with comms but for me, when I was doing it with U2, D centers were pain in ass. U centers were much easier - it was almost the same alg for Ubl and Ufr. But it's my personal preference. My only advice is: practice. After some time your memo will shorten.

About corners with OP in 4bld. I like the idea doing corners in the beginning of the solve. But the problem is that y-perm is not center safe and rotates centers. I was always trying to make corners with the number y-perms divisible by 4. When you know few comms it is easier to do it. For example if there are 6 targets I do 4 with y-perm and 2 with comm. Now I do them all with comms and I always start solving corners first.


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## mark49152 (Sep 9, 2015)

h2f said:


> Centers with comms are much easier - it's obvious. Have you read Ollie's thread about it? There are only few cases for comms. Others are setups + the case you know.


Yes I've seen that thread but didn't work through the examples, and haven't really got my head around comms yet. I followed Noah's tutorial. U2 seems a good beginners' method because it follows the same principles as r2/OP. It didn't take long to pick it up.



h2f said:


> Grzegorz Jałocha told me - and he says the same in his polish tutorial - the he did centers always with the same rule: starting from the same point on each side and adding pieces clockwise. If the piece is correct he was starting from another etc.


Noah says the same, and that's what I tried at first, but I find it harder to remember where I am on a clockwise sequence than I do to think through a tiling strategy (although maybe it's slower). For example, let's take the R face, and suppose it has centres R, B, U, L (face letters, not sticker letters). Now on my B face let's suppose there are two U pieces. I have an R piece in the buffer to solve, but which target to shoot to? Well, i would replace the U piece last, because I want to avoid a cycle break. I would also defer replacing the B piece, because that will speed up the dislodging of the U pieces from the B face. So I would fill the R positions in order L, B, U.



h2f said:


> Of course D and U centers are easier with comms but for me, when I was doing it with U2, D centers were pain in ass. U centers were much easier - it was almost the same alg for Ubl and Ufr. But it's my personal preference.


Noah's D alg is longish but the same for all four pieces, with setup, so that's easy enough. The A/C alg seems just as bad to me, but I have been wondering, why not just rotate the U face to move a different sticker into the buffer rather than doing a swap, and track the cumulative rotations? Is that what is meant by a "floating buffer"?



h2f said:


> My only advice is: practice. After some time your memo will shorten.


Well yeah, my success today was 18min memo and 9min execution. On 3BLD I'm still spending 1.5-2min on memo. So to get faster, that is clearly my main weakness to target. Once my memo is faster than my execution, then I'll start optimizing execution. For 4BLD, I only really care about accuracy right now. For 3BLD I'd like to get faster .



h2f said:


> About corners with OP in 4bld. I like the idea doing corners in the beginning of the solve. But the problem is that y-perm is not center safe and rotates centers. I was always trying to make corners with the number y-perms divisible by 4. When you know few comms it is easier to do it. For example if there are 6 targets I do 4 with y-perm and 2 with comm. Now I do them all with comms and I always start solving corners first.


Why do corners first? I'm the opposite - I like doing corners last because it feels like the final straight, flat mile on a marathon .


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## chtiger (Sep 9, 2015)

mark49152 said:


> Tried another 4BLD before work - success in 26:53. Execution was about 9 minutes. It's actually not that difficult, just a few extra algs and an awful lot to remember. For example every piece type (centres, wings, corners) can have parity independently. Also it's rather fiddly, with lots of slice moves, and requires a great deal of care and concentration not to make mistakes. Verdict: I like it, and will give it a shot at my next comp, but will take it steady and aim for accuracy not speed



With the rate that you are improving, you'll be doing 5BLD at your next comp. It took me 4 tries just to correctly do the centers sighted. I tried edges sighted and looking at algs once and failed. I need to get back into it since I've learned M2.

I had a few PB's in the last week. Got my first sub-20 3x3 ao5. (17.73), 19.89, 20.62, (21.33), 18.68 = 19.73 
Trying to push my memo on 3BLD, but I'm struggling with it. Still improved my PB to 2:24.98
Been wanting a 2/2 MBLD under 10 minutes, but kept getting 1/2 or a slow 2/2. Finally did 2/2 in 7:56.63

Update: Just did first 4/4 MBLD, in 21:18.25 (faster than my 3/3)


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## h2f (Sep 9, 2015)

> Yes I've seen that thread but didn't work through the examples, and haven't really got my head around comms yet.



When it comes time to learn comms it's a good source. 



> I followed Noah's tutorial. U2 seems a good beginners' method because it follows the same principles as r2/OP. It didn't take long to pick it up.



It looks like we've learnt from the same tutorial. The only diffrence is I took algs for D layer from another source. But both were uncomfortable to execute. That's why I didnt like to solve Dlayer.



> Noah says the same, and that's what I tried at first, but I find it harder to remember where I am on a clockwise sequence than I do to think through a tiling strategy (although maybe it's slower). For example, let's take the R face, and suppose it has centres R, B, U, L (face letters, not sticker letters). Now on my B face let's suppose there are two U pieces. I have an R piece in the buffer to solve, but which target to shoot to? Well, i would replace the U piece last, because I want to avoid a cycle break. I would also defer replacing the B piece, because that will speed up the dislodging of the U pieces from the B face. So I would fill the R positions in order L, B, U.



I knew someone else mentioned it. I knew what you mean. Cycle breaks are uncomfortable with U2, because it takes 7 or more moves to do nothing but take a pieces to your buffer. But when you do the way Noah shows the cycle breaks are not common - they happens to me maybe once in 10 solves. When I see 3 top pieces are solved I try to skip the pieces with 4th and back to it in the end.



> but I have been wondering, why not just rotate the U face to move a different sticker into the buffer rather than doing a swap, and track the cumulative rotations? Is that what is meant by a "floating buffer"?



Yes, this is floating buffer. Someone asked about it in "one question thread". I think it's easier to be mistaken with it but maybe I am wrong. 



> Why do corners first? I'm the opposite - I like doing corners last because it feels like the final straight, flat mile on a marathon .



It's good to think about it. In my first official 4bld I solved that way. But now I think it's the same like 3bld - memorize last, execute first, and forget about your pairs.


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## Logiqx (Sep 9, 2015)

mark49152 said:


> Verdict: I like it, and will give it a shot at my next comp, but will take it steady and aim for accuracy not speed



What... no 5BLD? 

https://www.worldcubeassociation.org/results/c.php?i=UKChampionship2015


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## mark49152 (Sep 9, 2015)

chtiger said:


> With the rate that you are improving, you'll be doing 5BLD at your next comp. It took me 4 tries just to correctly do the centers sighted. I tried edges sighted and looking at algs once and failed. I need to get back into it since I've learned M2.


Yes I did several sighted solves to get the hang of it, and failed a few times. It took me 3-4 solves to realise that you have to interchange A and C on an even swap. Got no plans to try 5BLD until I have official 4BLD and 4/4 MBLD successes, and sub-3 3BLD . Nice PBs by the way .



h2f said:


> It looks like we've learnt from the same tutorial. The only diffrence is I took algs for D layer from another source. But both were uncomfortable to execute. That's why I didnt like to solve Dlayer.


What do you use for D layer? Also what do you use for U layer, if not Noah's algs?



h2f said:


> In my first official 4bld I solved that way. But now I think it's the same like 3bld - memorize last, execute first, and forget about your pairs.


For 3BLD I memo corners first with images (strong), then edges as words/audio (weak but faster) with 4 letters per word, so usually 3-4 words. Then execute edges first.

For 4BLD I am doing everything as images, with <= 5 pairs per scene, in 6 rooms of my house. I memo and execute in the same order (centres, edges, corners). Once I'm more confident and start to focus on getting faster, I will probably memo centres last and use words/audio. That's still only ~4 words. 

Tips appreciated .


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## Jason Green (Sep 9, 2015)

I'm amazed how little cube terminology I still know. I was actually solving with the Petrus method and never learned the standard move notation... Just memorized from the animations on Lars' site. 

All the different BLDs, ZZ, CLL, HIJKLMNOP. Maybe some day I'll learn more! (I'm not asking for help BTW, I'll Google it first if I want to)

It's like I mentioned a G Perm to my brother, and he asked if that was a character from Fat Albert. [emoji14]


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## h2f (Sep 9, 2015)

> What do you use for D layer? Also what do you use for U layer, if not Noah's algs?



For U layer I used Noah algs. I liked them. For D layer I used Noah but switched (l B d2 B' l') U2 (l B d2 B' l'). You execute the same like Noah's: setup when needed, alg, undo setup. 


> For 3BLD I memo corners first with images (strong), then edges as words/audio (weak but faster) with 4 letters per word, so usually 3-4 words. Then execute edges first


.

I memo edges with two letters for word and 3 words for scene/sentence/image. The second scene/sentence/image is made of 1-3 words. Next corners with audio pairs AJ, CD etc. Execute: corners and edges. Corners with 3style, edges with M2. For 4 bld I memo: centers with same rules like edges in 3bld. Next edges but I always group 4 words in one room. So it looks like: 4 words, 4 words, last words (3-4 or sometimes 5). Corners last. Execution: corners, centers, edges. 



> Tips appreciated.



I wish I had any .


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## mark49152 (Sep 9, 2015)

Logiqx said:


> What... no 5BLD?


No but I noticed Ben's registered for 4BLD too


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## Rastinha (Sep 9, 2015)

Logiqx said:


> Well done everyone on your recent successes.
> 
> Jason: Hopefully you'll be sub-30 in a few weeks / months. It all depends on how much practice you put in.
> Rastinha: Do you know 4LLL algs yet? It's time to learn them as well as learning proper F2L (corner/edge pairs) if you are currently using beginner method (corners then edges)
> Mark: 4BLD success at your next competition plz.



Yep, I only stuck with beginners method for 2 days before going to Fridrich/CFOP with 2-look OLL and 2-look PLL. But I've been cubing less than 2 weeks all up, so I have plenty to work on in terms of thinking quicker, not fumbling my algorithms so much (aka working on finger tricks - I struggle a lot with certain combinations of movements and getting them fast). I'm pretty happy with progress so far. No idea how this BLD stuff works though, will save that for later I think. I'm pretty good at memorizing things though, so hopefully that will help when I decide to give it a go.

I need to learn what the algorithms look/feel like as I am voicing them in my head to do them so they only come out as fast as I can say words in my head.


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## moralsh (Sep 10, 2015)

mark49152 said:


> For 3BLD I memo corners first with images (strong), then edges as words/audio (weak but faster) with 4 letters per word, so usually 3-4 words. Then execute edges first.
> 
> For 4BLD I am doing everything as images, with <= 5 pairs per scene, in 6 rooms of my house. I memo and execute in the same order (centres, edges, corners). Once I'm more confident and start to focus on getting faster, I will probably memo centres last and use words/audio. That's still only ~4 words.
> 
> Tips appreciated .



For 4BLD I memo corners first with images and visual, to make it stick a bit more, next I memo wings with 3 sentences of about 4 letter pairs, lastly I memorize centers with audio and sometimes also with a sentence for the last 3 or 4 pairs, depends on how well the rest is sticking. I then execute in reverse order, Centers, wings and corners.

For 5BLD I memo corners the same way as in 4BLD, then edges, wings, + centers with roman rooms (4-5 images per room) and + centers the same way as in 4BLD. Execution in reverse order. I like memoing corners first because if there is parity, I swap UB and UL in memo to avoid it.

When you don't have a success what is the most probable cause? Mine is often center execution I might look for that thread you were talking about, I'm improving my system to execute always the same way also. Will tell you if it works ok for me.

for 3BLD I do the same as Mark


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## Jason Green (Sep 10, 2015)

Rastinha said:


> I've been doing the same thing, but mainly because of my tendency to go "yargh" and get all flustered when I mess up, adding like 10 seconds on, plus the extra move. I'm trying to get more efficient at my F2L as that is quite slow at the moment, so if I mess up before then I usually quit and start again.
> 
> Sounds like you had a good session, measurable progress is pretty satisfying huh?
> 
> ...


It's fun to read your progress, at this point you are just a few weeks "behind" me. Of course you may pass me anytime, and that's fine too. 

I'm getting excited to have my first sub 20 solve. I had a lucky 25 the other day. I remember my first lucky 59 just a few weeks ago! Fun stuff!


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## MarcelP (Sep 10, 2015)

Jason Green said:


> I remember my first lucky 59 ..



LOL, that was awesome to read.. I literally was laughing out loud. I am glad to see you are improving that fast Jason. I do not know how long it took for my first sub 20 but it was more than a year.


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## Rastinha (Sep 10, 2015)

Jason Green said:


> It's fun to read your progress, at this point you are just a few weeks "behind" me. Of course you may pass me anytime, and that's fine too.
> 
> I'm getting excited to have my first sub 20 solve. I had a lucky 25 the other day. I remember my first lucky 59 just a few weeks ago! Fun stuff!



Yay, it's reassuring to hear that you're getting lucky 25s and had your first lucky 59 a few weeks ago, at the moment I'm struggling to see how I'll get any lower, haha, but I have actually had a lucky 48.xx and 49.xx which is exciting! I always think "Oh but I just got a PLL skip" and then I think, everyone's personal bests must be good case scenarios like that so I'll take it.

I may be coming to FW in a couple of weeks, my grandad is not very well... Is there a group of you there at all?


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## mark49152 (Sep 10, 2015)

Rastinha said:


> I need to learn what the algorithms look/feel like as I am voicing them in my head to do them so they only come out as fast as I can say words in my head.


Drilling algs is a good idea and helps develop speed and dexterity. Just repeat each alg over and over. Eventually they become muscle memory, and you get the opposite problem. My algs flow fluidly and automatically from muscle memory, but as soon as I think about what I'm doing, I'm lost, and have no idea how to recover! For some algs, like say R-perms, there's no way I could even do them step-by-step and write it down. The only way I can do it is without thinking. Lookahead or thinkahead actually comes in pretty useful as deliberate distraction, because to stop myself thinking about what I'm doing with the alg, I will instead think "what colours did I see when I started this" and try to predict which way to AUF at the end . I still use 4-look on big cubes because I can't do the algs as fluidly and am more prone to catching and getting lost.



moralsh said:


> I like memoing corners first because if there is parity, I swap UB and UL in memo to avoid it.


That's an interesting idea, but isn't it prone to mistakes? Certainly it would be nice to avoid an annoying PLL parity as the final step 



moralsh said:


> When you don't have a success what is the most probable cause? Mine is often center execution I might look for that thread you were talking about, I'm improving my system to execute always the same way also. Will tell you if it works ok for me.


Can't answer because both my full 4BLD attempts were successes . I had plenty of failures when practising the individual steps though. With centres, I forgot to switch A/C, or shot to the same location twice, or just did the wrong setups for some pieces. For edges I would sometimes mix up the S/W, A/Q and C/I pieces or forget to undo the setups for C/K/W, but my most common mistake was to mix up the stickers on each edge when tracing. So for example, I would shoot to J, but then on the J dedge look at the upper rather than the lower sticker/wing to continue tracing.

Ollie's thread is here.



Jason Green said:


> I'm getting excited to have my first sub 20 solve. I had a lucky 25 the other day. I remember my first lucky 59 just a few weeks ago! Fun stuff!


My first sub-20 was a 19.70 PLL skip on 17 Jan 2014 when I'd been cubing about 16 months and my PB ao50 was around 28.5. I didn't get another one until 5 Feb 2014 when out of nowhere came a full-step 18.13. That was pretty special


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## h2f (Sep 10, 2015)

mark49152 said:


> That's an interesting idea, but isn't it prone to mistakes? Certainly it would be nice to avoid an annoying PLL parity as the final step



Noah Arturs solves parity that way. In fact, you dont avoid parity, but you solve it this way add one extra target to the edges I guess. I dont know if it's better than switching UB/UL alg and doing last corner with OP.


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## mark49152 (Sep 10, 2015)

h2f said:


> Noah Arturs solves parity that way. In fact, you dont avoid parity, but you solve it this way add one extra target to the edges I guess. I dont know if it's better than switching UB/UL alg and doing last corner with OP.


I like it. Presumably there must also be a parity alg that would swap the two OP corners without swapping any edges. I wonder if any good algs exist for that.


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## h2f (Sep 10, 2015)

The way I solve parity looks like this. I solve corners first, and when I got parity I do an extra target UBR to last 3-cycle. This swaps UBL and UBR. After solving edges I do M2 y L2 Tperm L2. Done.


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## mark49152 (Sep 10, 2015)

mark49152 said:


> I like it. Presumably there must also be a parity alg that would swap the two OP corners without swapping any edges. I wonder if any good algs exist for that.



https://www.speedsolving.com/wiki/index.php/4x4x4_Parity_Algorithms#Opposite.2FDiagonal

The alg labelled FB14 seems pretty good, with the first R cancelled. Not sure if it's any better than a Y-perm and adjacent parity fix though. 

The way I fix parity today is to solve all corners OP as usual then x' L2 B' [PLL parity] B L2


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## Jason Green (Sep 10, 2015)

Rastinha said:


> then
> I may be coming to FW in a couple of weeks, my grandad is not very well... Is there a group of you there at all?



If there are any groups I have not found them. Maybe I should do as post specifically for that... Maybe you can help me find them. 

Sorry about your granddad.


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## h2f (Sep 10, 2015)

mark49152 said:


> https://www.speedsolving.com/wiki/index.php/4x4x4_Parity_Algorithms#Opposite.2FDiagonal
> 
> The alg labelled FB14 seems pretty good, with the first R cancelled. Not sure if it's any better than a Y-perm and adjacent parity fix though.
> 
> The way I fix parity today is to solve all corners OP as usual then x' L2 B' [PLL parity] B L2



I've lost myself if we are talking about parity in 3bld or 4bld.  

But if we talk about 4bld Robert Yau found very nice r2 parity alg: https://www.speedsolving.com/forum/...D-Discussion&p=1057684&viewfull=1#post1057684


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## mark49152 (Sep 10, 2015)

h2f said:


> I've lost myself if we are talking about parity in 3bld or 4bld.
> 
> But if we talk about 4bld Robert Yau found very nice r2 parity alg: https://www.speedsolving.com/forum/...D-Discussion&p=1057684&viewfull=1#post1057684


We're talking about fixing the edge swap that results from doing an odd number of corner swaps in 4BLD. The alg I pointed to is a pure corner swap that does not affect edges.

Rob's r2 parity alg is very nice.


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## h2f (Sep 10, 2015)

mark49152 said:


> We're talking about fixing the edge swap that results from doing an odd number of corner swaps in 4BLD. The alg I pointed to is a pure corner swap that does not affect edges.



I see.  The idea of using this alg is very interesting. 



> Rob's r2 parity alg is very nice.



I use some of his algs and all of them are very nice to fingertrick.


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## mark49152 (Sep 10, 2015)

Here's my first foray into corner comms, for anyone interested. Twelve comms for the price of one!

Cycles A to (M, N, O or P) to (I, U or S).

1. Set up first target to P location.
2. Set up second target to A location (buffer).
3. B' R2 B - easy as M2-ish
4. Undo A setup
5. B' R2 B - again
6. Undo P setup

Should also work for A to (L, H, T) to I but I haven't tried it.


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## Logiqx (Sep 10, 2015)

MarcelP said:


> LOL, that was awesome to read.. I literally was laughing out loud. I am glad to see you are improving that fast Jason. I do not know how long it took for my first sub 20 but it was more than a year.



My first sub-20 took just under 13 months... somewhere between 2036 and 2087 timed solves.


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## Jason Green (Sep 10, 2015)

Logiqx said:


> My first sub-20 took just under 13 months... somewhere between 2036 and 2087 timed solves.


It will be hard to say how long I've been cubing. If you read my intro post, I learned Petrus several years ago. I could solve in a couple of minutes or so, but did not care about speed past that. I started wanting to speed solve a little over two months ago. I was so out of practice I had to do review before I could even do Petrus once. Still I'm sure that previous experience helped the learning curve some, even though it feels SOOO much simpler to solve now!


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## MarcelP (Sep 11, 2015)

Okay, I have a challenge for all of you. I enjoy watching cube video's of people I know. So here is the challenge. If you think you average xx seconds, try to make an Ao12 video with achieving that result. I just did my first 12 solves of the day (with many days without cubing), and tried to solve as slow as possible without getting real bad times. The result is a pretty steady average with a standard deviation of 1.1. That is quite good for me. This average sounds quite alright as my global average btw.



Spoiler: Ao12 of 19.79



Time List:
1. 21.07 F L2 F2 L2 D2 U2 B U2 F2 U2 F D' R' B2 L' U B F U L' D'
2. 19.34 L2 B2 U B2 D' F2 U F2 D2 F U R' F2 D' L' B2 U' B R2 D'
3. 19.56 B2 L2 F2 L2 U2 B2 D2 F2 L' D2 U2 B U' B2 R2 B2 L' B L
4. 19.96 L2 U' F' L U2 L' D B L U F2 D2 F2 D' R2 L2 D2 B2 U' R2 L
5. 21.49 B' R2 D' L2 D F2 L2 F2 D' U2 L2 D F' L D' B' F2 R' F' L' D'
6. 17.26 L F2 U L F2 B' L2 D R2 U2 R2 F R2 F2 D2 L2 D2 F2 U'
7. 17.11 U F2 L' F2 D2 L R2 F2 L' B2 F2 R2 D' R2 F' D' L2 D B' L2
8. 21.34 L B R2 B D2 F' U2 B2 U2 R2 L F2 D2 U' B' L' D' L' F'
9. 19.19 R U2 L2 B2 R F2 U2 L' F2 R2 F2 U' L B F L D B F R'
10. 19.51 F2 L2 R2 D' U2 R2 F2 D2 U F2 R2 B U2 L' U R F2 D2 B2 R D2
11. 22.57 D' B' L2 F2 R2 F' D2 F' U2 F' D2 U R' D L2 B2 D L' U2 L2
12. 19.18 L' U' F2 D' R2 U' B2 U' L2 R2 B2 D2 F L2 D' R U2 R2 D L' F


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## Schmidt (Sep 11, 2015)

I won't bore you with that! My avg is around 25s  
5 cubes of 2,3 & pyra each week is sadly not enough to improve.


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## MarcelP (Sep 11, 2015)

Schmidt said:


> I won't bore you with that! My avg is around 25s
> 5 cubes of 2,3 & pyra each week is sadly not enough to improve.



I wish you would get back into speedcube practice. It was really nice motivation for me when you where faster than me. 

BTW, I would also love seeing just an Ao5 (although it is much easier to film a good Ao5 )..


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## Logiqx (Sep 11, 2015)

Ok. Just done a sub-20 Ao12 from scratch (rather than do a big session and pick the best bits). I'll upload shortly...

Funny how much harder it is when you know you're recording and doing exactly 12 solves. Similar feeling to a competition. 

Edit: You beat me by 0.05s. lol


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## MarcelP (Sep 11, 2015)

Logiqx said:


> Edit: You beat me by 0.05s. lol


 Cool.


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## muchacho (Sep 11, 2015)

I'll do an ao12 and upload it later, I'm hoping to average 40 seconds.


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## Jason Green (Sep 11, 2015)

muchacho said:


> I'll do an ao12 and upload it later, I'm hoping to average 40 seconds.


I'll do one also hopefully tonight. Ao12 if it's not too long! Sub 40 is my only goal, or else I'll do it again.


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## Logiqx (Sep 11, 2015)

Ok... it' uploading but predicting 40 minutes remaining. I've added a few easter eggs to make it a little more interesting!

It seems we have a sub-40 challenge later today.


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## Logiqx (Sep 11, 2015)

Okey dokey. Here's my submission!

I know I'm over-inspecting... I'm taking my time after a recent phase of under-inspecting.


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## MarcelP (Sep 11, 2015)

Logiqx said:


> Okey dokey. Here's my submission!
> 
> I know I'm over-inspecting... I'm taking my time after a recent phase of under-inspecting.



Very cool Mike. I did like the 34 a lot since you started over at 21 secs and finishes only 13 seconds later  I think you are faster than me at LL. That should be something I could work on, however I feel I am at my max LL speed. Your slow turning style is very good. Better than mine because I see little pauses at yours.


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## Jason Green (Sep 11, 2015)

Logiqx said:


> Okey dokey. Here's my submission!
> 
> I know I'm over-inspecting... I'm taking my time after a recent phase of under-inspecting.
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Nd-aeDv4vQ


All fancy with graphics! I'll enjoy watching all these later. Right now I just watched one cause I'm in a meeting at work. [emoji14]


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## Logiqx (Sep 11, 2015)

MarcelP said:


> Very cool Mike. I did like the 34 a lot since you started over at 21 secs and finishes only 13 seconds later  I think you are faster than me at LL. That should be something I could work on, however I feel I am at my max LL speed. Your slow turning style is very good. Better than mine because I see little pauses at yours.



Yeah. That solve was quite amusing and disasters like that are pretty rare for me. I was considering several cross options / solutions but the execution didn't resemble any of them!

I decided to give up on the solve and restart after 12-13 seconds, flipping the cube upside down and reverting to white cross without the benefit of inspection. 

I think my LL speed is fairly decent for my overall times. I think your cross+1 is better than mine but in the end we get similar results. Maybe we'd do well for factory solves, lol.



Jason Green said:


> All fancy with graphics! I'll enjoy watching all these later. Right now I just watched one cause I'm in a meeting at work. [emoji14]



Hehe. I got Premiere Elements recently so I'll try to learn some new skills on future videos.


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## Keiji 293 (Sep 11, 2015)

Use a metronome and set to speed to 100 bpm then try to keep up with the speed. If you find it easy then slowly increase the speed by 5. It'll work if you practice it everyday


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## muchacho (Sep 11, 2015)

It worked, I felt the pressure, too much. It was going well until the 7th solve, I failed the first move and didn't realized until I was going to start the second block (I use Roux), once I started making errors it went downhill from there. Forget lookahead, I even spent more than 10 seconds searching for a piece. Luckily the camera decided to stop recording in the 9th solve.








Spoiler: times



1. 40.76
2. (34.74)
3.40.99
4. 43.86
5. 39.90
6. 38.16
7. 54.25
8. (DNF)
9. 39.81
10. 52.01
11. 43.26
12. 45.09

ao12: 43.81


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## Jason Green (Sep 11, 2015)

muchacho said:


> It worked, I felt the pressure, too much. It was going well until the 7th solve, I failed the first move and didn't realized until I was going to start the second block (I use Roux), once I started making errors it went downhill from there. Forget lookahead, I even spent more than 10 seconds searching for a piece. Luckily the camera decided to stop recording in the 9th solve.
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U7ey-sY046U


That may happen to me, if I screw one up too bad I may just call it a DNF.


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## muchacho (Sep 11, 2015)

I did that in the 8th one


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## mark49152 (Sep 11, 2015)

OK, I finally made a vid. I wanted sub-20 and would have been disappointed with sup-20, so I give you.... 20.00. Check out the comedy timer fail and the U perm that went off into the woods.


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## MarcelP (Sep 11, 2015)

muchacho said:


> It worked, I felt the pressure, too much. It was going well until the 7th solve, I failed the first move and didn't realized until I was going to start the second block (I use Roux), once I started making errors it went downhill from there. Forget lookahead, I even spent more than 10 seconds searching for a piece. Luckily the camera decided to stop recording in the 9th solve.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Wicked color scheme! And even more wicked method! Very nice!



mark49152 said:


> OK, I finally made a vid. I wanted sub-20 and would have been disappointed with sup-20, so I give you.... 20.00. Check out the comedy timer fail and the U perm that went off into the woods.



We have very similair styles. Only I think in the first few solves you did more pauses than I normally do. But you make up with much faster recognition of OLL and PLL.


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## Logiqx (Sep 11, 2015)

mark49152 said:


> OK, I finally made a vid. I wanted sub-20 and would have been disappointed with sup-20, so I give you.... 20.00. Check out the comedy timer fail and the U perm that went off into the woods.
> 
> https://youtu.be/eDLfQmywung



Awesome. Great to see you post a video.

I've had the sound off as Jo is next to me but I enjoyed watching it through and the last 2 solves were quite entertaining. 

What happened with the timer in earlier solve(s). Did you just miss the space bar?


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## Logiqx (Sep 11, 2015)

muchacho said:


> It worked, I felt the pressure, too much. It was going well until the 7th solve, I failed the first move and didn't realized until I was going to start the second block (I use Roux), once I started making errors it went downhill from there. Forget lookahead, I even spent more than 10 seconds searching for a piece. Luckily the camera decided to stop recording in the 9th solve.
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U7ey-sY046U
> 
> ...



Nice to see a bit of Roux in the challenge. 

Grey stickers are pretty cool!


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## mark49152 (Sep 12, 2015)

MarcelP said:


> We have very similair styles. Only I think in the first few solves you did more pauses than I normally do. But you make up with much faster recognition of OLL and PLL.


Yeah I agree. I've been a bit off form on 3x3 recently since doing BLD and I think the reason is that my look ahead has deteriorated. I didn't feel slow or clumsy on that session, I just paused too much. I want to turn more like Mike .



Logiqx said:


> What happened with the timer in earlier solve(s). Did you just miss the space bar?


I went to hit the timer then pulled back when I noticed the +2. My finger hit the edge of the keyboard and I thought I was too late, but it took me almost 3 seconds to notice that I hadn't actually hit the timer and could fix the +2. 

Not sure what happened on the earlier solve, something didn't look right and I paused to check the times.


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## LL Cool Skip (Sep 12, 2015)

I average 16 on good days and 18 on bad days. This 17.85 is a pretty good representation of my average, mistakes and all. This is the first average I've ever videoed and was inspired by this thread to do it. I felt nervous just knowing the camera was on. Should be good practice for my comp next weekend. I got a nice x-cross on solve 9 then my camera takes a nosedive and the rest of the average goes downhill. I curse myself a bit, throughout, for not recognizing OLLCP and turning too fast during cross. I probably inspect a little too long on some but I don't care too awful much.
17.70, 17.24, 15.93, 18.07, 16.45, 18.75, 16.77, 16.47, (15.85), (21.33), 21.26, 19.82 = 17.85





I'm probably not as old as most of the "Older cubers" here, but I can say I was born in the 70's... truthfully.


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## MarcelP (Sep 12, 2015)

mark49152 said:


> I want to turn more like Mike .



Yeah me too. I think Mike has the most potential of this little group. The controlled way of slow solving is very very cool. And Mike does other colors as yellow/white as well making him ready to do cross plus one really fast.



LL Cool Skip said:


> This is the first average I've ever videoed and was inspired by this thread to do it. I felt nervous just knowing the camera was on.



Great solves! And that's the whole point why I film my solves every now and then. To get used being on the spot. It helps a bit for competitions. And I just love re-watching very fast singles.



Logiqx said:


> I think your cross+1 is better than mine



I think 8 out of 10 times I do find my first pair in inspection these days.. It is something you can practice. Just keep track of an edge or corner during cross.


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## mark49152 (Sep 12, 2015)

LL Cool Skip said:


> I This is the first average I've ever videoed


Nice turning style too! I think my practice regime for the next few weeks will focus on slow turning and look ahead. Maybe that's what I need to break my 5 month plateau.



MarcelP said:


> Yeah me too. I think Mike has the most potential of this little group. The controlled way of slow solving is very very cool. And Mike does other colors as yellow/white as well making him ready to do cross plus one really fast.


And he has zero competition nerves .


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## Logiqx (Sep 12, 2015)

Here's an idea which may have had some influence on my turning style... "quiet turning". Whilst practicing with other people in the house, I try to turn slowly, smoothly and steadily to minimise noise. This puts the focus on look ahead and eliminating pauses during the solves but it gives a nice smooth feeling. When I do timed solves I just up the tempo (which I vary according to my look ahead) and care not about the noise!

I remember when I was averaging about 45 seconds, I knocked 5 seconds off my global average after one evening of "quiet turning". I really should do more of it nowadays since it still seems to have a positive impact on my times the following day.

Edit: I certainly felt nervous at my first competition but not so much it couldn't be controlled and masked. Hopefully, I can do the same next time!


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## mark49152 (Sep 12, 2015)

Logiqx said:


> Here's an idea which may have had some influence on my turning style... "quiet turning".


That's a great idea, I will give that a go.


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## Jason Green (Sep 13, 2015)

Here is my entry... I'm really glad you did this challenge! It made me realize I was giving up on way too many of my messed up solves. In fact I almost chickened out of this because I was afraid I would end up "double solving" half of them. 

It gets less painful after the first two, about 3 minutes in. Also I just scramble randomly, I'm slow reading the patterns. I'm gonna post a follow up if I can get an Ao12 under 40. 

https://youtu.be/t1KcZ4JTxao


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## Rastinha (Sep 13, 2015)

I'll join in with this when an average of 12 video doesn't take me like half an hour to film 

I got some new cubes in the mail yesterday:
- Gans 356, got me a new PB of 43.01 but times are really inconsistent so far as it's a fast cube but aaallll kinds of all over the place! Can't control it yet.
- Moyu AoLong Mini, which is proving to be great for my freakishly small hands. Have had a lot of low 50s solves even though my color recognition is not good on it coming from stickerless full bright.
- Cyclone boys 2x2 currently averaging 25.88, PB of 12.58 (probably would have been around 10 if I hadn't been so confused about why I couldn't find the next pattern, before realising it was solved!)

So I'm probably not getting any better right now because I'm making my brain diversify into being able to recognise different colors, and colors with a big black strip around them (it's a weird transition from stickerless!), which is also temporarily worsening my scores on my original cube. I think it will speed me up once I'm over the hump though.

And then I'll make a video and you can see how much time I spend pausing, lost, haha . Was very cool to watch the other videos though!


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## MarcelP (Sep 13, 2015)

Jason Green said:


> Also I just scramble randomly, I'm slow reading the patterns.



I remember clearly when I solved just like you. I also thought reading scrambles from screen was a waste of time. But people here encouraged me to do so. It helps you do fingertricks. And after a short while doing reall scrambles will take you justa few secs to scramble.



Rastinha said:


> So I'm probably not getting any better right now because I'm making my brain diversify into being able to recognise different colors, and colors with a big black strip around them (it's a weird transition from stickerless!), which is also temporarily worsening my scores on my original cube. I think it will speed me up once I'm over the hump though.



That's right. It will soon get better. Every now and then I solve a white cube with black stickers. It throws me off for a while and then I am just as fast on it as with any other cube.


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## Jason Green (Sep 13, 2015)

MarcelP said:


> I remember clearly when I solved just like you. I also thought reading scrambles from screen was a waste of time. But people here encouraged me to do so. It helps you do fingertricks. And after a short while doing reall scrambles will take you justa few secs to scramble.



That's cool I never thought about it helping finger tricks. I'll start working on that also.


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## mark49152 (Sep 13, 2015)

Jason Green said:


> That's cool I never thought about it helping finger tricks. I'll start working on that also.


I think it helps with cross in particular, where we rely less on familiar sequences from muscle memory. A year or two back, we each did an ao12 of fixed-length scrambles and posted our times. Might be fun to do that again!


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## moralsh (Sep 13, 2015)

Wow, I'll try to upload something tomorrow, don't think I'll hit sub 20 but I'll try!


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## Logiqx (Sep 13, 2015)

Jason Green said:


> Here is my entry... I'm really glad you did this challenge! It made me realize I was giving up on way too many of my messed up solves. In fact I almost chickened out of this because I was afraid I would end up "double solving" half of them.
> 
> It gets less painful after the first two, about 3 minutes in. Also I just scramble randomly, I'm slow reading the patterns. I'm gonna post a follow up if I can get an Ao12 under 40.
> 
> https://youtu.be/t1KcZ4JTxao



Cool. I have just got back from a family weekend and watched your video whilst I did some cubing myself.

It looks like you started to settle down and relax in the later solves and there was even a sub-40 Ao5 near the end. Good work. 



moralsh said:


> Wow, I'll try to upload something tomorrow, don't think I'll hit sub 20 but I'll try!



It seems that Marcel has been very successful in getting us to make some videos!

I quite like the scrambling idea that Mark suggested.


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## EvilGnome6 (Sep 14, 2015)

Sunday Single 4x4. 1:02.39






On Sunday afternoons I cook food for the week and do some cubing. I wanted to capture a good single and here's my best from the session. This is my second fastest time ever and could have been sub-1 had there been no parity. Darn that parity.

Oh, well. Hope you don't mind me sharing it here. The first two centers were extremely lucky. I can't really plan them out that well. First three edges were smooth and half centers went fast, too. My F2L is choppy, the OLL was easy and PLL took too long to identify. Room for improvement and I think a sub-1 average can be achieved someday. Cube used was the Cyclone Boys G4.

I'll try to capture a good 5x5 next week.


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## mark49152 (Sep 14, 2015)

Logiqx said:


> I quite like the scrambling idea that Mark suggested.


Ao12 = 10.99. I used 25 move fixed length scrambles. Note that random state can be variable length.



EvilGnome6 said:


> Sunday Single 4x4. 1:02.39


Nice solve.


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## MarcelP (Sep 14, 2015)

EvilGnome6 said:


> Sunday Single 4x4. 1:02.39
> 
> 
> On Sunday afternoons I cook food for the week and do some cubing. I wanted to capture a good single and here's my best from the session. This is my second fastest time ever and could have been sub-1 had there been no parity. Darn that parity.
> ...


I am at work so I can't watch now. I thought G4 was my main, untill I did an Ao5 for the weekly contest this week with an AoSu. Broke my single and AVG PB 



mark49152 said:


> Ao12 = 10.99. I used 25 move fixed length scrambles. Note that random state can be variable length.
> 
> 
> Nice solve.



Cool, I will try tonight.


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## Logiqx (Sep 14, 2015)

mark49152 said:


> Ao12 = 10.99. I used 25 move fixed length scrambles.



I've just done my Ao12 using "old style" scrambles of 25 moves... 9.602s / 2.6tps

I can't have woken up yet because my first attempts (deleted) confused me!

Start the timer... scramble... stop the timer... check the pattern. What... how did I mis-scramble? Solve the cube and try again... what... another mis-scramble! Repeat...

It took me a few scrambles + solves to twig I was checking against the image of the next scramble. I did the Ao12 by just scrambling and not doing solves in between. 

I think I was turning a bit more carefully once I knew I couldn't check the image. Next time I'll do it on the computer with two timer windows... one for scramble checking and one for timing!


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## mark49152 (Sep 14, 2015)

Logiqx said:


> It took me a few scrambles + solves to twig I was checking against the image of the next scramble.


LOL! I didn't check scrambles or solve in between. It's possible I misscrambled here and there but I don't think it matters as long as I did all 25 moves. Your time is pretty fast! All my scrambles were consistently 10.x or 11.x.


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## muchacho (Sep 14, 2015)

Ao12 of scrambles: 17.68

I used scrambles from here:
http://www.jaapsch.net/scramble_cube.htm

And then I was checking them here:
https://alg.cubing.net/
(funny that I did them all right, usually even I scramble slower I fail like 1 out of 10)



Spoiler: times



12	00:17.655 B' D U2 B2 F2 R' B2 D2 U' B F2 R U2 L' U' L' B2 F U F U' F' L U B
11	00:16.047 L2 B' F' L' R2 D2 R D B D' F U' B F2 R U L R' F2 D2 U F D' R2 D'
10	00:16.645 B L' D2 U2 F' U2 F' L' D U' B L' D U B' F' D U L R B2 F2 D2 U R2
9	00:17.070 U' R D' U F' D' U2 L F L2 B L U2 B F' L' R2 F L2 R U' R' B' F' R'
8	00:19.559 D2 U2 B2 F' D2 U' B2 F D2 U2 L B2 D' U B R' U L' R' D L2 U2 L2 B U'
7	00:18.519 L2 B2 L' B' L2 D2 U' F2 U L' D2 F D2 U2 L' B2 U2 B' F' L' B F2 R U F2
6	00:16.335 D' U F' R' D2 B2 F L' D U' L F D2 L D R U2 R2 B2 F D2 R D2 B' D
5	00:17.247 F2 L2 U' B F' D2 U' L2 R B L2 R U' L' F' D U2 F2 R' D U F2 U2 L R
4	00:17.280 L' R B R D U2 B F' D2 L R2 B D L2 D' U2 B' R2 D2 B' L B2 F2 L2 D2
3	00:18.624 R' B2 L F2 L2 B F L' R F L2 U' R' B2 F R D' U2 B2 F2 L2 B' D' L' R'
2	00:20.325 F2 D2 F2 L U' F2 D2 U R' D' B L2 R' U' R2 D' U B2 F' D2 U2 R2 D2 U B2
1	00:17.903 L2 R2 D2 B2 F' L2 D2 B2 D U2 L2 R B F' L' R2 F L' B' F L' R D2 R F


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## Logiqx (Sep 14, 2015)

mark49152 said:


> LOL! I didn't check scrambles or solve in between. It's possible I misscrambled here and there but I don't think it matters as long as I did all 25 moves. Your time is pretty fast! All my scrambles were consistently 10.x or 11.x.



Yeah... pretty pleased with a sub-10 Ao12 for my first attempt but I think with a bit of a warm up, I can probably do sub-9. It's all about the "read-ahead". 

I did some zero inspection solves yesterday night, something I haven't done since I was averaging 24/25s. I was racing Jason on his video so when he started his timer, I'd uncover my hand-scrambled cube and solve it. The timing was only rough (looking at his screen) but I was generally doing 25.x with a best of 21.x and worst of 26.x.

Maybe we should do a "real man" challenge... scrambling, inspecting and solving included in the time? Sub-30 would be a great target but I don't think I could average that yet... maybe a single!


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## Logiqx (Sep 14, 2015)

EvilGnome6 said:


> Sunday Single 4x4. 1:02.39



Very nice! Less pauses on 3x3 and that would have been way sub-60.


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## Logiqx (Sep 14, 2015)

Logiqx said:


> Maybe we should do a "real man" challenge... scrambling, inspecting and solving included in the time? Sub-30 would be a great target but I don't think I could average that yet... maybe a single!



Well... that was pretty fun! This was my first ever attempt at the "real man" format.

I had csTimer running in two windows... one showing "old style" (25 move) scrambles, waiting for times to be input manually and one being used as a timer. Start the timer, scramble, solve, stop the timer, enter the time. In the future, I will pre-generate scrambles and enter them into csTimer rather than using two windows.

1/5/12 = 25.62/32.01/32.74

That 25 felt sweeeeet. A super-easy white cross, easy F2L then a nice OLL+PLL!

p.s. I did this challenge using white cross. No point searching for the "best" cross when the clock is ticking!

p.p.s. I'll do a video of this some time. Slightly too busy over the next few days.




Spoiler



Generated By csTimer on 2015-9-14
solves/total: 12/12

single
best: 25.62
worst: 37.71

mean of 3
current: 30.59 (σ = 4.55)
best: 30.20 (σ = 4.06)

avg of 5
current: 32.26 (σ = 0.96)
best: 32.01 (σ = 1.27)

avg of 12
current: 32.74 (σ = 2.46)
best: 32.74 (σ = 2.46)

Average: 32.74 (σ = 2.46)
Mean: 32.56

Time List:
1. 33.62 B2 U' D2 L2 B' L' R' U R2 D' B U2 B' F' R U2 B' R2 B2 R' D2 L' R2 F B 
2. 30.34 U2 B' R2 F L' U' R2 B2 R' U2 L2 B L2 D U' B2 L R2 B F D' B' F2 D B2 
3. 37.71 R F' U' F U2 R' L2 U' B2 L' U2 B2 F R2 D2 F' D' F' U2 R' B2 R2 D B2 D 
4. 28.95 L2 D' F B R' F U R2 U' R' F' B' U R B D' R2 F D2 U2 F B2 R2 L U 
5. 35.62 U2 F U2 F D' U2 B R B' D' L' U2 B' R2 U2 D' R U' D2 R2 D' B2 L2 F' B2 
6. 30.85 B U2 R2 D' R' F2 R2 B L U D' B' R2 U D L' F' D U' B2 D' B2 R D' R2 
7. 36.71 B2 L F L2 U' F' U' F R' D2 U' L R' U' R2 L2 U B' L B F' L R D F 
8. 31.81 U2 D' R2 F U' D L' B U F D' U2 F2 U2 D2 R2 B2 D2 L' F' L2 D U R B 
9. 33.37 U2 B' U' R' L B2 R L F2 B2 D' F2 D2 U' B' U D2 B D' B2 L2 U' R2 F2 U 
10. 25.62 F D' U F U' F' D2 B' L D2 U B2 R L F2 R2 U2 R U' F2 U2 R2 F2 L2 D 
11. 31.61 D U' R2 F' L2 D L' D2 F2 D' U' R' L2 B D' L2 F2 B L R2 D2 B2 R D' B2 
12. 34.54 F' R2 D B2 D2 F' R' B2 F2 L B' F R B2 L2 F' D' R' D2 U' F' B2 U' R' L2


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## EvilGnome6 (Sep 14, 2015)

MarcelP said:


> I thought G4 was my main, untill I did an Ao5 for the weekly contest this week with an AoSu. Broke my single and AVG PB



When I first did a timed session using the YuXin 4x4 I broke my single and AVG PB so it replaced the AoSu as my main. After a few months of using the YuXin as my main, the internal catching started to really aggravate me. The AoSu has issues with that, too. So far, the G4 doesn't seem to have that problem and my times haven't suffered.

The G4 isn't perfect, though. The design is very good but the manufacturing is cheap. It takes a lot of work to set up and break in.


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## Jason Green (Sep 14, 2015)

Logiqx said:


> I was racing Jason on his video so when he started his timer, I'd uncover my hand-scrambled cube and solve it.


You were racing ME? That's not much of a challenge is it? Did you also play pick up basketball with some pre-schoolers?  Just giving you a hard time! 



mark49152 said:


> I think it helps with cross in particular, where we rely less on familiar sequences from muscle memory. A year or two back, we each did an ao12 of fixed-length scrambles and posted our times. Might be fun to do that again!


So question, what advice can people give on how much to work on limiting cube rotations, especially during F2L? This comment on the cross made me realize sometimes I do a bunch of unneeded rotations just to like in my last cross edge (for example). If I was better with my turns I could avoid that. I can do the full F2L without rotations, but some of that would be slow. Like if I have a slot aligned that I can solve with RUR'U' RUR'U' RUR', I think it would be horribly slow for me if I tried to do it from another angle. At the same time I'm probably way over rotating to get the slots in a certain spot. Is there a "happy medium" for my current level? What should be me "end goal"?


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## EvilGnome6 (Sep 14, 2015)

Jason Green said:


> So question, what advice can people give on how much to work on limiting cube rotations, especially during F2L? This comment on the cross made me realize sometimes I do a bunch of unneeded rotations just to like in my last cross edge (for example). If I was better with my turns I could avoid that. I can do the full F2L without rotations, but some of that would be slow. Like if I have a slot aligned that I can solve with RUR'U' RUR'U' RUR', I think it would be horribly slow for me if I tried to do it from another angle. At the same time I'm probably way over rotating to get the slots in a certain spot. Is there a "happy medium" for my current level? What should be me "end goal"?



Take a solved cube and scramble it using only R and U turns. That means the 2 F2L pairs on the right can be solved using only R and U moves and no rotations. It will help you recognize those cases and get you used to doing rotationless insertions. 

Then scramble using only L and U moves to work on the left side F2L pairs.


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## Jason Green (Sep 14, 2015)

EvilGnome6 said:


> Take a solved cube and scramble it using only R and U turns. That means the 2 F2L pairs on the right can be solved using only R and U moves and no rotations. It will help you recognize those cases and get you used to doing rotationless insertions.
> 
> Then scramble using only L and U moves to work on the left side F2L pairs.


That's an awesome idea, thanks!

BTW, on my phone app I can "like" a post but I do not know if that is visible anywhere. I can't see any other likes from other people, is there a way to do that, or is this just something weird on the Tapatalk app?


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## Logiqx (Sep 14, 2015)

Jason Green said:


> You were racing ME? That's not much of a challenge is it? Did you also play pick up basketball with some pre-schoolers?  Just giving you a hard time!
> 
> So question, what advice can people give on how much to work on limiting cube rotations, especially during F2L? This comment on the cross made me realize sometimes I do a bunch of unneeded rotations just to like in my last cross edge (for example). If I was better with my turns I could avoid that. I can do the full F2L without rotations, but some of that would be slow. Like if I have a slot aligned that I can solve with RUR'U' RUR'U' RUR', I think it would be horribly slow for me if I tried to do it from another angle. At the same time I'm probably way over rotating to get the slots in a certain spot. Is there a "happy medium" for my current level? What should be me "end goal"?



Well, I watched your first 3 solves then I wanted to do some practice so that's how it came about!

You should get into the habit of doing solutions for any slot through simple mirroring. You gave the example of (RUR'U')*3 but you can also do it at the back right with (R'U'RU)*3, front-left with (L'U'LU) and back left with (LUL'U') with practice. This applies to many of the F2L cases and the general rule is that if it works without a rotation for the FR slot there is an equivalent for the BL slot. If it works for BR (many cases which require a rotation are typically solved to BR) then there is an equivalent for FL.

With time / practice you'll realise which of your F2L cases are worst and start investigating better solutions.


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## Jason Green (Sep 14, 2015)

Logiqx said:


> Well, I watched your first 3 solves then I wanted to do some practice so that's how it came about!
> 
> You should get into the habit of doing solutions for any slot through simple mirroring. You gave the example of (RUR'U')*3 but you can also do it at the back right with (R'U'RU)*3, front-left with (L'U'LU) and back left with (LUL'U') with practice. This applies to many of the F2L cases and the general rule is that if it works without a rotation for the FR slot there is an equivalent for the BL slot. If it works for BR (many cases which require a rotation are typically solved to BR) then there is an equivalent for FL.
> 
> With time / practice you'll realise which of your F2L cases are worst and start investigating better solutions.


Cool, lots of good advice! Thanks!!


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## mark49152 (Sep 15, 2015)

Today I watched my 20.00 ao12 video again and estimated the pauses. Although I didn't time it accurately, I was turning for a pretty consistent 13-14 seconds per solve. Faster solves had less pauses and slower solves had more. So that confirms what I need to work on, and is quite encouraging in a way.


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## Jason Green (Sep 15, 2015)

mark49152 said:


> Today I watched my 20.00 ao12 video again and estimated the pauses. Although I didn't time it accurately, I was turning for a pretty consistent 13-14 seconds per solve. Faster solves had less pauses and slower solves had more. So that confirms what I need to work on, and is quite encouraging in a way.


I know what you mean. I'm much slower but still feel like I turn horribly slow. However when I watch myself my turns seem faster than I feel like, and there is gobs of time that I sit staring at it.


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## EvilGnome6 (Sep 15, 2015)

I'm a bit of a contrarian so I'm going to focus on the pauses and eliminate the turns.


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## mark49152 (Sep 15, 2015)

Jason Green said:


> when I watch myself my turns seem faster than I feel like, and there is gobs of time that I sit staring at it.


Yes exactly. I don't feel like I pause much at all, but evidently from the video, I do.


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## h2f (Sep 15, 2015)

I will have a competition next weekend. I hope for a good times in bld events.


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## Jason Green (Sep 16, 2015)

Question for you guys that average 20 or less, how fast can you do most of your perms? Can you sub 1 a lot of them?


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## Jason Green (Sep 16, 2015)

MarcelP said:


> My goal is to get below one minute. Right now I have not focussed on OLL and PLL. I just need to get the 2FL much quicker. I recon in a few weeks times must be a lot better.
> 
> Cheers!



I just now watched your original video! Inspiring.


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## LL Cool Skip (Sep 16, 2015)

Jason Green said:


> Question for you guys that average 20 or less, how fast can you do most of your perms? Can you sub 1 a lot of them?



I can't even sub-1 a U perm. Many of them are difficult for me to sub-2. Try new algs for cases you find difficult.


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## mark49152 (Sep 16, 2015)

Jason Green said:


> Question for you guys that average 20 or less, how fast can you do most of your perms? Can you sub 1 a lot of them?


My PLLs average ~2.4. Some are faster than others, but I don't time them individually. I practise in groups, or do all 21 in sequence for warm ups or speed practice. My PB ao12 for that is 51.58.


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## Logiqx (Sep 16, 2015)

mark49152 said:


> Today I watched my 20.00 ao12 video again and estimated the pauses. Although I didn't time it accurately, I was turning for a pretty consistent 13-14 seconds per solve. Faster solves had less pauses and slower solves had more. So that confirms what I need to work on, and is quite encouraging in a way.



That's pretty interesting. All of the little pauses certainly add up!



Jason Green said:


> I know what you mean. I'm much slower but still feel like I turn horribly slow. However when I watch myself my turns seem faster than I feel like, and there is gobs of time that I sit staring at it.



TBH, I thought you turned a little too fast when you inserted your pairs (fast and choppy rather than slow and smooth). Whilst you are inserting the current pair (automatically, without looking at it) you should be finding / tracking pieces for your next pair but if you turn too quickly you'll have no chance. With practice you'll actually be looking for pieces of your next pair as soon as you start the current pair but for now just slow down (turn smoothly) and look for the next pair during insertion of the current pair.



Jason Green said:


> Question for you guys that average 20 or less, how fast can you do most of your perms? Can you sub 1 a lot of them?



Nah. I think mine fall between the range 1.2 and 2.4 when I time them individually on a stackmat. They're rarely as quick in a solve because there are extras such as recognition time, recall and AUF (before and after the alg).

If you're averaging around 40s (or aiming for it) then your F2L should take about 25s and the last 15s should be LL.

https://www.speedsolving.com/forum/...bing-training-that-yields-systematic-progress

Edit: Like Mark, I don't tend to time my PLLs. I just did a few prior to writing my post to get some figures (H = 1.2, Jb = 1.2, Ga=1.6, E = 1.8, Gc = 2.4, F=2.4)


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## Jason Green (Sep 16, 2015)

Logiqx said:


> TBH, I thought you turned a little too fast when you inserted your pairs (fast and choppy rather than slow and smooth). Whilst you are inserting the current pair (automatically, without looking at it) you should be finding / tracking pieces for your next pair but if you turn too quickly you'll have no chance. With practice you'll actually be looking for pieces of your next pair as soon as you start the current pair but for now just slow down (turn smoothly) and look for the next pair during insertion of the current pair.
> 
> If you're averaging around 40s (or aiming for it) then your F2L should take about 25s and the last 15s should be LL.



I agree I tend to go to fast, I need to focus on that. Thanks for the tip of looking ahead just during the insert, I seem to get messed up when I try before the slots are paired. 

My time split is about right, that's an interesting post you shared. I had not timed my perms but did a few, my U perms are still about 2.9 secs... *Sigh*.


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## MarcelP (Sep 16, 2015)

Jason Green said:


> my U perms are still about 2.9 secs... *Sigh*.



Do not worry about that. Mine are not a lot faster. My LL averages 5 - 6 secs. Luckily my F2L is 13~ secs 



Jason Green said:


> I just now watched your original video! Inspiring.



Thanks! You can be fast too in a while  (Well I think anything below sub 25 is fast..)


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## Jason Green (Sep 16, 2015)

MarcelP said:


> Thanks! You can be fast too in a while  (Well I think anything below sub 25 is fast..)



Thanks, below 20 would make me happier.  Time will tell I guess.


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## MarcelP (Sep 16, 2015)

Jason Green said:


> Thanks, below 20 would make me happier.  Time will tell I guess.



How about sub 10  If you stick with it I am sure sub 20 will be no problem. After that it gets hard (for me)..


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## Jason Green (Sep 16, 2015)

MarcelP said:


> How about sub 10  If you stick with it I am sure sub 20 will be no problem. After that it gets hard (for me)..


Yes 10 would be better. I have a problem where I can never be satisfied, I guess that's being human for most of us. So unless I become the best in the world I won't be done trying... Not that I think I could, but that's irrelevant. 

I like to bowl and have the same issue. I would bowl pro stuff if I could, but I only average around 190-200 (the pros would average 240+ in a league like mine).

I still enjoy the process though!


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## MarcelP (Sep 16, 2015)

Jason Green said:


> Yes 10 would be better. I have a problem where I can never be satisfied, I guess that's being human for most of us. So unless I become the best in the world I won't be done trying... Not that I think I could, but that's irrelevant.
> 
> I like to bowl and have the same issue. I would bowl pro stuff if I could, but I only average around 190-200 (the pros would average 240+ in a league like mine).
> 
> I still enjoy the process though!



You are a pretty good bowler I see  I am good at trowing a bowling ball really fast that would knock out a wall, if only it would stay on the lane. 

I remember some time ago I said I would be happy if I got the time Schmidt was getting. That ment 25~ secs at that time. I would not have mind if I stayed there. But some how with practice I got to be in the 19 - 20 overall range. And I feel I am not near my max speed yet.


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## chtiger (Sep 16, 2015)

Jason Green said:


> Question for you guys that average 20 or less, how fast can you do most of your perms? Can you sub 1 a lot of them?



I average about 24 seconds, and I don't even sub-2 any PLLs. I just tried and it took a bunch of tries before I got a sub 2 U-perm. I'd guess my perms range from 2.2-4. And I don't do anything else particularly well either, and still have some bad habits. I still solve cross on top and usually can only plan out 3 cross pieces in inspection, rotate a ton, too many pauses, etc. So just with practice, you'll be at least mid 20's before too long. I would upload an average of 12, but I don't have an easy way to record and upload.


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## Logiqx (Sep 16, 2015)

I ordered the Yuxin 5x5 last week and it is waiting for me at the sorting office. Bad traffic prevented me from picking it up tonight so it will have to wait until tomorrow. I wanted to play with it tonight!

I did an Ao12 on my AoChuang at lunchtime, my first timed 5x5 solves since Sept 3rd but a load of new PBs... 1/5/12 = 03:08.70/03:23.28/03:34.28

I'm still a lot slower than Mark and way, way, way slower than the other Mike but it was a 13 second improvement for Ao5. I'll get back to not practicing... it seems to work well! 

Edit: Joking aside, I've only done a few casual slow solves since my last timed session so they must be the source of improvement.


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## mark49152 (Sep 17, 2015)

Logiqx said:


> I'm still a lot slower than Mark ....


...but gaining fast! I haven't touched 5x5 since ABHC. I've done a bit of 2x2 though


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## sneaklyfox (Sep 17, 2015)

Sorry I'm on here so infrequently nowadays. I like to catch up a bit. I'm not 40+ but will be there in 6 more years. 

Edit: Oh yah, I saw someone posted about this being "epic thread". Indeed it is.


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## MarcelP (Sep 17, 2015)

sneaklyfox said:


> Sorry I'm on here so infrequently nowadays. I like to catch up a bit. I'm not 40+ but will be there in 6 more years.
> 
> Edit: Oh yah, I saw someone posted about this being "epic thread". Indeed it is.



I am glad you stopped by  I think it is time you post a new video (since almost every one did it last week), showing a nice Ao12.

For the people who do not know Sneaklyfox, she is very cool  as shown here:


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## Jason Green (Sep 17, 2015)

MarcelP said:


> I am glad you stopped by  I think it is time you post a new video (since almost every one did it last week), showing a nice Ao12.
> 
> For the people who do not know Sneaklyfox, she is very cool  as shown here:
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lzrlf2yNXtU


Awesome, I love the turning style! I had a good practice session tonight (for me). Ao5 was 35 and Ao12 37 at the end. I'm going to capture such a session on video sometime soon! (Translation - sometime)


----------



## h2f (Sep 17, 2015)

I'm preparing and practicing to a competionion this weekend. I've back to CFOP because my times with it are better than with Roux. Although I want to do some big cubes solves. That's why Im back. I pracitce PLLs - most of them I can do sub2. And I practice yellow cross solving (I solve with white on bottom) and slow solving. And today I got my first ao5 sub 20. I'm very glad with that. Maybe I'll be sub20 ao100 one day.


----------



## muchacho (Sep 17, 2015)

h2f said:


> I'm preparing and practicing to a competionion this weekend. I've back to CFOP because my times with it are better than with Roux. Although I want to do some big cubes solves. That's why Im back. I pracitce PLLs - most of them I can do sub2. And I practice yellow cross solving (I solve with white on bottom) and slow solving. And today I got my first ao5 sub 20. I'm very glad with that. Maybe I'll be sub20 ao100 one day.


Back temporarily to CFOP just for the competition or giving up Roux?



sneaklyfox said:


> Sorry I'm on here so infrequently nowadays. I like to catch up a bit. I'm not 40+ but will be there in 6 more years.
> 
> Edit: Oh yah, I saw someone posted about this being "epic thread". Indeed it is.


Seeing that last video on youtube, do you use Roux now?


----------



## h2f (Sep 17, 2015)

muchacho said:


> Back temporarily to CFOP just for the competition or giving up Roux?



I like to solve big cubes and I solve them with yau or reduction. This means I never stoped solving with CFOP. But when I stucked under 25 seconds I get boring with that method. On the other hand I did want to get into FMC and I found Roux gives some features in it - for example doing blocks 2x2, 2x2x2 or 3x2x2. Also slice moves are very nice. That's why I learned it. When I want some rest from CFOP I do roux. But in last time I realized that with CFOP I am much closer to sub-20 than with Roux. And 2 months ago I've started practicing it regulary: blind cross, f2l, olls, plls, solving on yellow, metronom or slow solving. I stopped for a month and gave advantage to roux, but in last time I've noticed that CFOP become much easier for me. I think I'm gonna to practice both methods. 

In roux my weakest point at the moment are cmlls: adding recognition I do them between 2-3 seconds and 10 seconds. I need to practice it. On the other hand I can do fb in maximum 9 moves and sb in maximum 20. Both in 10-13 seconds.

Edit: I've read my post and it looks like noone is going to understand what I mean except me.


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## Logiqx (Sep 17, 2015)

h2f said:


> ... today I got my first ao5 sub 20. I'm very glad with that. Maybe I'll be sub20 ao100 one day.



It'll definitely come with time. Next milestone... Ao12.


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## Logiqx (Sep 17, 2015)

Logiqx said:


> I ordered the Yuxin 5x5 last week and it is waiting for me at the sorting office. Bad traffic prevented me from picking it up tonight so it will have to wait until tomorrow. I wanted to play with it tonight!



I picked up my Yuxin 5x5 on the way to work. Wow... it feels amazing!

It is incredibly smooth and effortless to turn; inner and outer layers. I can't wait to do some solves at lunchtime. 

I think I will be retiring the AoChuang...


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## h2f (Sep 17, 2015)

Logiqx said:


> It'll definitely come with time. Next milestone... Ao12.



I hope so.  Your ao12 slow turning was an inspiration for me.


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## Logiqx (Sep 17, 2015)

h2f said:


> I hope so.  Your ao12 slow turning was an inspiration for me.



Cool.


----------



## EvilGnome6 (Sep 17, 2015)

Logiqx said:


> I picked up my Yuxin 5x5 on the way to work. Wow... it feels amazing!



That YuXin 5x5 is surprisingly smooth out of the box.


----------



## h2f (Sep 17, 2015)

Maybe I have a progress - I got second ao5 sub20 (19.21), ao12 (20.25) - so close, and ao100 22.9.


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## Logiqx (Sep 17, 2015)

Page 500!

Nearly at 5000 posts, lol.


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## Jason Green (Sep 18, 2015)

Hello. So my younger sister (by 5 years) is just learning to cube, I got her the bug.  She can already do her Cross and F2L. I wanted to teach her an easy approach to LL, but could not find the way that made sense to me. Maybe it is out there, but I just decided to make my own.

The concept I wanted was minimal alg memorization, but use ones that she would continue using as she learned the rest of CFOP. In other words, you can do OLL and PLL with 2 algs each, but you just might have to repeat them more times. It seems more useful to me than learning beginner or some method you will have to throw away. But it still gives her the fun of solving it that much sooner.

These are probably pretty boring, but I want to share them anyway. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LaLG1jrmQB0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c48NQvmMF48


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## MarcelP (Sep 18, 2015)

h2f said:


> Maybe I have a progress - I got second ao5 sub20 (19.21), ao12 (20.25) - so close, and ao100 22.9.



Nice! That is good stuff. With Roux?

EDIT: never mind, I just read:



h2f said:


> I'm preparing and practicing to a competionion this weekend. I've back to CFOP because my times with it are better than with Roux. Although I want to do some big cubes solves. That's why Im back. I pracitce PLLs - most of them I can do sub2. And I practice yellow cross solving (I solve with white on bottom) and slow solving. And today I got my first ao5 sub 20. I'm very glad with that. Maybe I'll be sub20 ao100 one day.





Jason Green said:


> I had a good practice session tonight (for me). Ao5 was 35 and Ao12 37 at the end



Nice progress. Going from sup 40 to sub 38. I wouldn't mind dropping a second or two 



h2f said:


> Edit: I've read my post and it looks like noone is going to understand what I mean except me.


Yeah LOL.. I think most people here understand. FB first block, SB second block.. And maybe some people know L6E that it means last 6 edges, the Roux equivalent of CFOP Last Layer.


----------



## muchacho (Sep 18, 2015)

Jason Green said:


> Hello. So my younger sister (by 5 years) is just learning to cube, I got her the bug.  She can already do her Cross and F2L. I wanted to teach her an easy approach to LL, but could not find the way that made sense to me. Maybe it is out there, but I just decided to make my own.
> 
> The concept I wanted was minimal alg memorization, but use ones that she would continue using as she learned the rest of CFOP. In other words, you can do OLL and PLL with 2 algs each, but you just might have to repeat them more times. It seems more useful to me than learning beginner or some method you will have to throw away. But it still gives her the fun of solving it that much sooner.
> 
> ...


The videos are good, it looks easy enough... maybe it would be a good moment to also try Roux in case she likes it more. With Deedub's videos there are only 2 algs to learn, and then the next step is using just 9.

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLajHGvYF36nSsL1r_DqrpDY07TnJwqEpn


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## h2f (Sep 18, 2015)

MarcelP said:


> Yeah LOL.. I think most people here understand. FB first block, SB second block.. And maybe some people know L6E that it means last 6 edges, the Roux equivalent of CFOP Last Layer.



I meant whole post.  Wish me luck tomorrow.


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## Logiqx (Sep 18, 2015)

h2f said:


> I meant whole post.  Wish me luck tomorrow.



Good luck. Sounds like you're on top form right now.


----------



## Logiqx (Sep 18, 2015)

MarcelP said:


> I know some people hate the Gans 356 and some love it. I have three of them and it has been my main for a month now. I am truely convinced about this cube. It is very forgiving, fast and controllable and it has the perfect size.



I ordered a Gans 356 at the same time as the Yuxin 5x5 and did a monster session in front of the TV last night... 200 timed solves.

The cube is very nice and near the end of the session, I got my first sub-17 Ao5 and without the benefit of any skips... (15.42), 18.03, 15.99, (21.49), 16.97 = 16.90

This Ao5 included my first counting 15... 15.998. The session as a whole wasn't anything special (only just sub-20 Ao50) as I was tired and the lighting in my lounge is not great but I was on fire for a few minutes. hehe!


----------



## mark49152 (Sep 18, 2015)

Logiqx said:


> I ordered a Gans 356 at the same time as the Yuxin 5x5 and did a monster session in front of the TV last night... 200 timed solves.


I misread that at first and thought you had done 200 5x5 solves .

I like the feel of the 356 but find it hard to control, especially when trying to turn slower. I was actually considering gumming up my AoLong or finding a slower cube, after our recent slow turning discussion.


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## MarcelP (Sep 18, 2015)

mark49152 said:


> I misread that at first and thought you had done 200 5x5 solves .
> 
> I like the feel of the 356 but find it hard to control, especially when trying to turn slower. I was actually considering gumming up my AoLong or finding a slower cube, after our recent slow turning discussion.


Fangshi with lot's of lube is great for that. 

I will start today with you to force some progress by doing hard core slow turning sessions. Mike's (Logiqx) way of turning is something I want to acchieve, but then slight faster.

Btw, I did an Ao12 of scrambles. I do not know how to get 25 length scrambles. So mine where 20 and I had 8.74.



Logiqx said:


> I ordered a Gans 356 at the same time as the Yuxin 5x5 and did a monster session in front of the TV last night... 200 timed solves.
> 
> The cube is very nice and near the end of the session, I got my first sub-17 Ao5 and without the benefit of any skips... (15.42), 18.03, 15.99, (21.49), 16.97 = 16.90
> 
> This Ao5 included my first counting 15... 15.998. The session as a whole wasn't anything special (only just sub-20 Ao50) as I was tired and the lighting in my lounge is not great but I was on fire for a few minutes. hehe!


Hang in there. It will take much more than 200 solves to get the required taste of Gans356  It is still my main by far from any other cube I have. In fact I orderd just another one.. (I like placing cubes in places where I can use them without taking cubes with me..)


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## Logiqx (Sep 18, 2015)

mark49152 said:


> I misread that at first and thought you had done 200 5x5 solves .



Haha. That'd take me almost 2 days straight!



MarcelP said:


> I did an Ao12 of scrambles. I do not know how to get 25 length scrambles. So mine where 20 and I had 8.74.



To get fixed length scrambles on csTimer, select "3x3" then "old style" (rather than "WCA" then "3x3").



MarcelP said:


> Hang in there. It will take much more than 200 solves to get the required taste of Gans356  It is still my main by far from any other cube I have.



I suspect it will become my new main. I haven't experienced any problems with the cube so far... just great turning.


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## MarcelP (Sep 18, 2015)

Logiqx said:


> To get fixed length scrambles on csTimer, select "3x3" then "old style" (rather than "WCA" then "3x3").



Thanks. I got 10.95.. Slower than I thought..


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## Jason Green (Sep 18, 2015)

muchacho said:


> The videos are good, it looks easy enough... maybe it would be a good moment to also try Roux in case she likes it more. With Deedub's videos there are only 2 algs to learn, and then the next step is using just 9.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLajHGvYF36nSsL1r_DqrpDY07TnJwqEpn


Cool I may check out out myself, I know very little about Roux.


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## Logiqx (Sep 18, 2015)

MarcelP said:


> Thanks. I got 10.95.. Slower than I thought..



Your original time for ~20 move scrambles (8.74) plus 25% is 10.93.


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## MarcelP (Sep 18, 2015)

Logiqx said:


> Your original time for ~20 move scrambles (8.74) plus 25% is 10.93.



LOL.. 00.02 slower.. Like I said, slower than I thought..


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## mark49152 (Sep 18, 2015)

MarcelP said:


> Thanks. I got 10.95.. Slower than I thought..


Yeah that's what I thought when I got 10.99. I expected about 8-9 secs.


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## chtiger (Sep 18, 2015)

ao12 scrambles = 10.82. Faster than I thought. I was expecting about 12


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## cubesp (Sep 19, 2015)

So. Finally I have evidence that exists over40 sub10 ? 
I'm near 46 and I'm new on this forum (https://www.speedsolving.com/forum/showthread.php?55155-A-new-old-cuber-from-Italy).
I'm sub40 (mathematically it doesn't exclude I'm sub10, but I'm not!!).
You'll be my light in the fog !!!


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## Jason Green (Sep 19, 2015)

cubesp said:


> So. Finally I have evidence that exists over40 sub10 ?
> I'm near 46 and I'm new on this forum (https://www.speedsolving.com/forum/showthread.php?55155-A-new-old-cuber-from-Italy).
> I'm sub40 (mathematically it doesn't exclude I'm sub10, but I'm not!!).
> You'll be my light in the fog !!!


Welcome! It's not too late to submit an entry for Marcel's ao12 challenge.  I am planning to try a better attempt soon. 

Glad we had a post, it was getting quiet around here.


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## Rastinha (Sep 19, 2015)

Well, I am happy I got a 35.83 and about 4 other 30-somethings in the space of about 20 solves, and have gotten an ao5 at 42.xx, so that's pretty cool. In a couple of weeks I should be able to film an ao12 without boring you all to death!

Marcel, I've been playing with your algorithm trainer and I love it - do you have an android version? Or, for anyone in the forum, does anyone know of an android app with the OLL and PLL algorithms but ALSO the scrambles that put the cube into that state so you can solve it? That's the best part of Marcel's program, but I can't seem to find the feature anywhere in any android apps.

Got a 20 hour flight on Tuesday so would be great to be able to memorise some 1look PLLs and get away from 4 look LL, that should help me get sub-40 averages.


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## Jason Green (Sep 19, 2015)

Rastinha said:


> Well, I am happy I got a 35.83 and about 4 other 30-somethings in the space of about 20 solves, and have gotten an ao5 at 42.xx, so that's pretty cool. In a couple of weeks I should be able to film an ao12 without boring you all to death!
> 
> Marcel, I've been playing with your algorithm trainer and I love it - do you have an android version? Or, for anyone in the forum, does anyone know of an android app with the OLL and PLL algorithms but ALSO the scrambles that put the cube into that state so you can solve it? That's the best part of Marcel's program, but I can't seem to find the feature anywhere in any android apps.
> 
> Got a 20 hour flight on Tuesday so would be great to be able to memorise some 1look PLLs and get away from 4 look LL, that should help me get sub-40 averages.


Are you coming to Texas? 

I just used badmephisto's cheat sheet by keeping the PDF on my phone. He also had an app, but it's not very interactive, basically just the cheat sheet in app form.


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## cubesp (Sep 20, 2015)

Great.
there is a special post with rules or a site/link?
Or I should simply post my results on ao12/??? (how many rounds?)

Thanks


----------



## Jason Green (Sep 20, 2015)

cubesp said:


> Great.
> there is a special post with rules or a site/link?
> Or I should simply post my results on ao12/??? (how many rounds?)
> 
> Thanks


Marcel post number 4913 in this thread. If you look at some of the posts following you'll see several of the videos we submitted. I think this link will work. 

https://www.speedsolving.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1116187


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## Jason Green (Sep 20, 2015)

Here is my better attempt at Ao12. The video is actually slightly longer because I did the scrambles and I'm kind of slow at that. Tragically my SD card filled up right at the end. That's OK because all that happened was I botched a T Perm (which is one of my favorites) and had a DNF. But still got the ao12. So here's the video and a picture of my screen at the end. 

https://youtu.be/2YCJ7H9qO-c


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## muchacho (Sep 20, 2015)

Rastinha said:


> Marcel, I've been playing with your algorithm trainer and I love it - do you have an android version? Or, for anyone in the forum, does anyone know of an android app with the OLL and PLL algorithms but ALSO the scrambles that put the cube into that state so you can solve it? That's the best part of Marcel's program, but I can't seem to find the feature anywhere in any android apps.


I'm learning CMLL now and I think I'm going to build a webpage to practice that algs, it would include "random" scrambles to CMLL cases. If I do it (in the next few weeks or never) and someone finds it useful I could add OLL/PLL or other alg sets. Maybe I could make it work in offline mode.


----------



## muchacho (Sep 20, 2015)

cubesp said:


> So. Finally I have evidence that exists over40 sub10 ?


Maybe not yet, but just wait until Zemdegs reach 40 

https://www.speedsolving.com/forum/showthread.php?55160-Feliks-Zemdegs-5-52-Average-of-5


Is/Was Ron van Bruchem the fastest old cuber? Someone knows?


Wellcome to the forum!


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## muchacho (Sep 20, 2015)

Jason Green said:


> https://youtu.be/2YCJ7H9qO-c



Nice, much better than the other!

I'm even worst now, yesterday I changed some sticker colors and I'm totally lost, finding pieces is a pain again!


----------



## cubesp (Sep 20, 2015)

muchacho said:


> Maybe not yet, but just wait until Zemdegs reach 40
> 
> https://www.speedsolving.com/forum/showthread.php?55160-Feliks-Zemdegs-5-52-Average-of-5
> 
> ...


I saw some 9.xx in PBs that is far away from mine!


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## muchacho (Sep 20, 2015)

Yeah, Marcel has one in video:






Are there any other ones with sub-10 singles?


van Bruchem had same sub-10 in competition, look at this thread:
https://www.speedsolving.com/forum/showthread.php?54128-How-fast-are-the-over-40-s-in-competitions


----------



## MarcelP (Sep 20, 2015)

Jason Green said:


> So here's the video and a picture of my screen at the end.



Thta's a pretty cool average. You have got a nice clean style. The fancy screen and keyboard must help also 



Rastinha said:


> Marcel, I've been playing with your algorithm trainer and I love it - do you have an android version?


Thanks! I have been using it myself a lot too  No, it's not for Android. I might port it to Android someday (since I have made a few Android apps aswell). But time is the problem factor right now.



cubesp said:


> So. Finally I have evidence that exists over40 sub10 ?
> You'll be my light in the fog !!!



LOL.. I have had two sub 10's. Both lucky scrambles, (meaning easy cross, easy F2L and PLL or OLL skip). I have had some full step 12's on video. Right now it does not get much better than that. 



muchacho said:


> Yeah, Marcel has one in video:



I loved seeing that again. I still can not imagion how I pulled that off.  Fortunatly that was one of the easiest PLL skips to recognize during OLL. That made me realise I am looking ahead during OLL also in that solve. There are too many solves where I stop looking ahead after 2FL.


----------



## Logiqx (Sep 20, 2015)

muchacho said:


> Yeah, Marcel has one in video:
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ui_B-9hZWQw
> 
> ...



I'm not there yet but I've had a couple of full step 13's.

I pulled out some official times for the over 40s here...

https://www.speedsolving.com/forum/showthread.php?54128-How-fast-are-the-over-40-s-in-competitions


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## cubesp (Sep 20, 2015)

Logiqx said:


> I'm not there yet but I've had a couple of full step 13's.
> 
> I pulled out some official. Times for the over 40s here...
> 
> https://www.speedsolving.com/forum/showthread.php?54128-How-fast-are-the-over-40-s-in-competitions



God job!
As far as I know WCA export doesn't contain age o born date ...
So, did you extract from MarcelP thread ?

And compliments for your PBs !!
Mine is 26.20 full (25.74 PLL skip), but the avg is between 30-40 usually. 
If I loose concentration (family, call, job, bills ...) I can still reach easily 1:30 !!!


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## cubesp (Sep 20, 2015)

I'lll do a video as soon as I can.
At the moment, just to introduce myself with an avg12,
that is an avg avg5/avg12 !
(it is cstimer but in italian !!)

Generato Da csTimer il 2015-9-20
risoluzioni/totale: 12/12

singolo
migliore: 29.40
peggiore: 47.38

media di 3
corrente: 40.25 (σ = 6.40)
migliore: 30.44 (σ = 1.01)

avg su 5
corrente: 34.63 (σ = 3.95)
migliore: 32.30 (σ = 2.37)

avg su 12
corrente: 37.17 (σ = 4.76)
migliore: 37.17 (σ = 4.76)

Avg : 37.17 (σ = 4.76)
Media : 37.37

Lista Tempi:


Spoiler



1. 44.55 F2 D' B2 U L2 F2 L2 R2 U2 L2 R' F' U2 L B R' B2 L F U2 
2. 33.99 D B2 F2 U2 L2 D' R2 F2 U' B2 L' U' B2 R U' F U B2 D2 U2 
3. 40.30 F' D2 F D2 U2 B' U2 R2 B' D2 L B' D2 B U' F2 L U' R' 
4. 37.07 D' R U F' D2 R2 U L' F R' L D2 B2 L B2 R' U2 F2 U2 L 
5. 43.90 D' B2 F2 U' B2 U' R2 U' L2 U R2 F' D' L2 F2 L R U L' B' R' 
6. 36.57 D U F2 U2 L2 U F2 L2 D' R2 F D' R U B' U' L2 F' R' D' 
7. 31.40 R F2 D' R2 F2 U' F2 D F2 R2 F2 D F' D R B R2 F' R B2 
8. 30.52 D L2 B D2 L2 U2 L2 F R2 F' D2 L D U2 L D F U 
9. 29.40 R2 U L2 F2 R2 B2 D U F2 U' B2 L U2 R D' F R' D L2 B' U2 
10. 34.99 B D L' U F' B' L' B R L2 F2 D2 L D2 R D2 U 
11. 38.39 F D2 B2 R F2 D2 L' F2 D2 F2 R B2 D B' D F2 L' R D R 
12. 47.38 D' L' U2 R' D2 B2 U2 B2 L2 U2 L2 U2 B R2 D' B F2 R U' L


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## Logiqx (Sep 20, 2015)

cubesp said:


> God job!
> As far as I know WCA export doesn't contain age o born date ...
> So, did you extract from MarcelP thread ?



This thread was one of the sources but there are a few other threads where people have openly given their age or year of birth.

Some additional people provided year of birth in response to the thread itself. If you're technically inclined you can view the SQL at the bottom of the post.


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## Jason Green (Sep 20, 2015)

MarcelP said:


> Thta's a pretty cool average. You have got a nice clean style. The fancy screen and keyboard must help also
> 
> I loved seeing that again. I still can not imagion how I pulled that off.  Fortunatly that was one of the easiest PLL skips to recognize during OLL. That made me realise I am looking ahead during OLL also in that solve. There are too many solves where I stop looking ahead after 2FL.



Thanks, I feel even more choppy when I film myself because it makes me nervous. That's my Mac I got to do iPhone apps years ago when they released the API. It's all I use at home now, but I'm not on the computer much here. I work in software development for Windows so I'm on it all day at work. 

Awesome job on the sub 10 solves BTW, pretty amazing!

I did my first 4x4 solve last night, and I keep thinking there have to be some good cubing jokes about parity. This one's kinda cheesy but it's all I got right now. 

What's the alg to solve parity on a 3x3 cube? P - O - P


----------



## EvilGnome6 (Sep 21, 2015)

Here's me doing a 2:16:18 while trying out the new YuXin 5x5. It's about 4 seconds off my PB. I'm undecided if I like the YuXin better than the AoChuang but it's certainly much better value. 

Method used: Yau5 with half centers (or whatever you call it on 5x5).


----------



## Jason Green (Sep 21, 2015)

EvilGnome6 said:


> Here's me doing a 2:16:18 while trying out the new YuXin 5x5. It's about 4 seconds off my PB. I'm undecided if I like the YuXin better than the AoChuang but it's certainly much better value.
> 
> Method used: Yau5 with half centers (or whatever you call it on 5x5).
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iTI-ryFC-IQ


Impressive! I can appreciate it a little more after playing with a 4x4 some, although I still don't know what all you are doing.


----------



## MarcelP (Sep 21, 2015)

Jason Green said:


> Thanks, I feel even more choppy when I film myself because it makes me nervous. That's my Mac I got to do iPhone apps years ago when they released the API. It's all I use at home now, but I'm not on the computer much here. I work in software development for Windows so I'm on it all day at work.


Lot's of developers here on speedsolving. I do not know what makes cubing and developing relate. I think it is something like, you have to be smart to be a developer, and most people that cube are also smart...



EvilGnome6 said:


> Here's me doing a 2:16:18 while trying out the new YuXin 5x5. It's about 4 seconds off my PB. I'm undecided if I like the YuXin better than the AoChuang but it's certainly much better value.
> 
> Method used: Yau5 with half centers (or whatever you call it on 5x5).
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iTI-ryFC-IQ



I could never do that. My last Ao5 on 5x5 (last week) was sup 5 minutes..  I might order a Yuxin also. The thing is, I have an Aochuang and a Cyclone Boys and both are pretty good. I really do not need another one.. LOL


----------



## Jason Green (Sep 21, 2015)

MarcelP said:


> Lot's of developers here on speedsolving. I do not know what makes cubing and developing relate. I think it is something like, you have to be smart to be a developer, and most people that cube are also smart...



Perhaps I can inspire you to pick up bowling also.  All these (developing, cubing, bowling) seem to have a similar satisfaction for me. I think it is that you understand the goal and it seems achievable. You can learn a little too get started, and it makes you want to learn more. As you continue in all these I find that I can improve on what I already know to get better, but there is also always more to learn to go to a new level. Finally you can impress friends and others with all of them. 

That's my theory.

... Oh yeah, it does exercise the brain too.


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## h2f (Sep 21, 2015)

My results from Warsaw Cube Masters: http://cubecomps.com/live.php?cid=1143&compid=78
I got some official pb's. But the first day was hard to me: dnfs in 4bld and weak 3bld: dnf (1:29), dnf (dont remember) and very safe 2:50 with memo close to 2 minutes. (horrible) The second day much better: 3rd in multi with 5/7 (one cube with twisted 2 corners and the second with 3 edges not done). First single sub20 in 3x3. In 5bld I was tired and did 2 dnfs. I'm quite happy with that results.


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## muchacho (Sep 21, 2015)

Lots of PBs, congratulations!

Who decides those cutoffs, Zemdegs?


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## h2f (Sep 21, 2015)

Thanks.  

These cutoffs are horrible.


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## Logiqx (Sep 21, 2015)

MarcelP said:


> Lot's of developers here on speedsolving. I do not know what makes cubing and developing relate.



I think good software developers enjoy problem solving. In the past, I've also enjoyed books of logic problems and Sudoku.

Talking of which it would be cool to see someone do Sudoku BLD. I've no doubt it can be done with a bit of practice. 

I spent my second year at university doing a bit of ten pin bowling (180 average, 238 best iirc) but I don't think it's particularly related to cubing. I haven't done it in years... I'd probably be horrible at it now!


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## Logiqx (Sep 21, 2015)

h2f said:


> Thanks.
> 
> These cutoffs are horrible.



Congrats on the PBs. Sub-20 single must have felt good. 

What are the cutoffs for 4x4 and 5x5? We have 01:30 and 02:30.


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## mark49152 (Sep 21, 2015)

Logiqx said:


> I think good software developers enjoy problem solving. In the past, I've also enjoyed books of logic problems and Sudoku.


I agree with that. Cubing is finding structured and logical solutions and solution methods, within a well-defined, abstract system of patterns and rules. Very similar to the world we immerse ourselves in while coding.

I know some smart people who cannot understand the appeal of cubing at all - and they don't code either


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## h2f (Sep 21, 2015)

Logiqx said:


> Congrats on the PBs. Sub-20 single must have felt good.
> 
> What are the cutoffs for 4x4 and 5x5? We have 01:30 and 02:30.



Yeah it was good. I was hoping it.

In 4x4 it was 1:10 but sometimes it's 1:05. In 5x5 1:45. In 6x6 3:30, clock 0:15. etc. In a smaller competitions they are lower.


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## mafergut (Sep 21, 2015)

I have been in the Speedsolving forum for over a year now and I hadn't found this thread util now. As others have said here, whenever I put my PBs in the Accompplishment Thread I fail to impress anybody there 

I'm 45, I'm from Spain and I started getting into speedcubing 2 years ago.
You can check my PBs for 2x2 and 3x3 in my sig below. I'm too bad at any other events (like 4x4, etc.) but I'm just getting into OH lately (PB 33.xx).

It's nice to know that there are many other cubers over 40 in the forum or, well, just "older than average". I'll try to film a video next weeked, even if I am late for "Marcel's challenge" from last week. I doubt it will be sub-20 but I'll try.


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## cubesp (Sep 21, 2015)

Formally just >30
So I saw in the last poll !!!
I joined a few days before
Your PBs are great!!  I hope to reach that !!

One question to all the >40s.

Do you go to Opens regulary ?
My First Open will be in October. 
There will be for sure 2-3 over 40s, friends!
But I'm not sure about the situation ...
I'll test it ...


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## mafergut (Sep 21, 2015)

cubesp said:


> Formally just >30
> So I saw in the last poll !!!
> I joined a few days before
> Your PBs are great!!  I hope to reach that !!
> ...



I haven't been to a comp yet. There are just a handful in Spain, most of them in Madrid or Barcelona so, no chance I can go to one but I'd like to


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## Doof (Sep 21, 2015)

34 yr old here. Picked up cubing last October. Went at CFOP strong from December to February. PB: 28.56. I sold all of my cubes but one, because I had amassed an embarrassing quantity, many for practice and developing my intuitive F2L.

About a week ago, I got the Gans 356 and am slowly getting back into it. I haven't timed myself, but I'm feeling a few sub-40s in there, perhaps a little better. However, I'm thinking I may look into a different method, as my mind is fresh. CFOP (2LLL) is almost wholly intuitive and natural now, algorithms coming without thought, and my speed is limited by my rustiness. I may give Roux a try.

Thoughts?


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## muchacho (Sep 21, 2015)

Why did you stop? Did you get bored or stucked? Maybe you can try a more intuitive (less algs) method that would be more entertaining for you.


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## Jason Green (Sep 21, 2015)

cubesp said:


> One question to all the >40s.
> 
> Do you go to Opens regulary ?



I have not been in any competitions. There was one near me when I got back into it and I went and watched. It was pretty cool, Anthony Brooks was there (he's ranked like 14th, if you aren't familiar). I think next time there is one near me, I will enter just for the experience.



Doof said:


> 34 yr old here. Picked up cubing last October. Went at CFOP strong from December to February. PB: 28.56. I sold all of my cubes but one, because I had amassed an embarrassing quantity, many for practice and developing my intuitive F2L.
> 
> About a week ago, I got the Gans 356 and am slowly getting back into it. I haven't timed myself, but I'm feeling a few sub-40s in there, perhaps a little better. However, I'm thinking I may look into a different method, as my mind is fresh. CFOP (2LLL) is almost wholly intuitive and natural now, algorithms coming without thought, and my speed is limited by my rustiness. I may give Roux a try.
> 
> Thoughts?



If it was me (and we are somewhat similar), I think I would brush up on my CFOP, then learn the full PLLs/OLLs. After I was into CFOP for a couple months, I briefly thought about trying out Roux, but I am not going to at this point. Maybe down the road. I'm averaging around 38 secs, but I know there is quite a bit of improvement just from recognizing things faster (and learning all the OLLs which I have not).


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## mafergut (Sep 21, 2015)

Jason Green said:


> If it was me (and we are somewhat similar), I think I would brush up on my CFOP, then learn the full PLLs/OLLs. After I was into CFOP for a couple months, I briefly thought about trying out Roux, but I am not going to at this point. Maybe down the road. I'm averaging around 38 secs, but I know there is quite a bit of improvement just from recognizing things faster (and learning all the OLLs which I have not).



I also agree that I'd focus first on a method until you more or less know it well before trying another method. That way you will have a better reference to compare to. Another different issue is if he wants to start anew with a different method now that he's back into cubing, then I'd say, why not? Roux is a nice and predominantly intuitive method and maybe he likes it better. I have tried it some months ago but I never went past the beginner stage (I just practiced for like a week or two and my best time was barely sub-40). I did not stop because I didn't like it but because I wanted to concentrate on being globally sub-20 with CFOP before trying another method really seriously and I haven't achieved that goal yet.


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## Jason Green (Sep 21, 2015)

mafergut said:


> I also agree that I'd focus first on a method until you more or less know it well before trying another method. That way you will have a better reference to compare to. Another different issue is if he wants to start anew with a different method now that he's back into cubing, then I'd say, why not? Roux is a nice and predominantly intuitive method and maybe he likes it better. I have tried it some months ago but I never went past the beginner stage (I just practiced for like a week or two and my best time was barely sub-40). I did not stop because I didn't like it but because I wanted to concentrate in being globally sub-20 before trying another method seriously and I haven't achieved that goal yet.


Certainly if learning something new is more appealing, I think it would be fine. The things I care about are what is fun, and what makes me better. They tend to feed into each other in both directions.


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## MarcelP (Sep 21, 2015)

h2f said:


> My results from Warsaw Cube Masters: http://cubecomps.com/live.php?cid=1143&compid=78
> I got some official pb's. But the first day was hard to me: dnfs in 4bld and weak 3bld: dnf (1:29), dnf (dont remember) and very safe 2:50 with memo close to 2 minutes. (horrible) The second day much better: 3rd in multi with 5/7 (one cube with twisted 2 corners and the second with 3 edges not done). First single sub20 in 3x3. In 5bld I was tired and did 2 dnfs. I'm quite happy with that results.



Awesome! I think you did great on all events. I wish I was as fast as you on 5x5.


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## h2f (Sep 21, 2015)

Thank You. 

I'm going for Nats in 2 weeks and I'm gonna get better there.


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## EvilGnome6 (Sep 22, 2015)

I just got a 2:02.40 doing 5x5. I'm happy about the new PB but more upset that I didn't get sub-2.


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## mafergut (Sep 22, 2015)

EvilGnome6 said:


> I just got a 2:02.40 doing 5x5. I'm happy about the new PB but more upset that I didn't get sub-2.



That sub-2 will come sooner rather than later, you'll see. Probably much, much sooner than my 1st sub-10 at 3x3, not to mention that I still have to get a sub-2... at 4x4 
GJ!


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## MatsBergsten (Sep 22, 2015)

I go to all competitions I can. They are fun even if I am almost twice (or more)
everybody elses age and I regularly come last or almost in all speed events.


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## mafergut (Sep 22, 2015)

MatsBergsten said:


> I go to all competitions I can. They are fun even if I am almost twice (or more)
> everybody elses age and I regularly come last or almost in all speed events.



Well, you seem to hold NR for 4BLD and 5BLD so you surely are not last in all events. I wish I was able to blindfold solve at all.


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## MarcelP (Sep 22, 2015)

mafergut said:


> I wish I was able to blindfold solve at all.



Me too


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## cubesp (Sep 22, 2015)

MatsBergsten said:


> I go to all competitions I can. They are fun even if I am almost twice (or more)
> everybody elses age and I regularly come last or almost in all speed events.



Great. I hope to feel myself comfortable at my first event. My first experience will drive the future events.  
But I think it will be fun. And I'll have at least other 2 "full aged" competitors !!

MatsBergsten, compliments for your "numbers" !!


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## muchacho (Sep 22, 2015)

This morning I saw there was going to be a competition in my city in the evening. I asked the organizer and it was even free (and only for 3x3), so I had no excuses, I went, and there were more than 20 competitors (I was the oldest by far).

While I was inspecting my first cube I realized I could not tell the difference between the orange and the yellow stickers, and the white was also difficult. The competition was on the street, when it was my turn it was around 9 pm and the street lights were the worst at least for my stickers (something that I should at least have checked instead of having my cube in my pocket all that time), in that moment I knew it was not going to be pleasant, my first solve was around 1:50, the rest improving until the fifth one, that I think it was less than 1:10 (I usually average less than 40 seconds).

It was not that fun or succesfull but my first (unofficial) competition was at least interesting, I totally recommend our ghetto competition!


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## Jason Green (Sep 22, 2015)

muchacho said:


> This morning I saw there was going to be a competition in my city in the evening. I asked the organizer and it was even free (and only for 3x3), so I had no excuses, I went, and there were more than 20 competitors (I was the oldest by far).
> 
> While I was inspecting my first cube I realized I could not tell the difference between the orange and the yellow stickers, and the white was also difficult. The competition was on the street, when it was my turn it was around 9 pm and the street lights were the worst at least for my stickers (something that I should at least have checked instead of having my cube in my pocket all that time), in that moment I knew it was not going to be pleasant, my first solve was around 1:50, the rest improving until the fifth one, that I think it was less than 1:10 (I usually average less than 40 seconds).
> 
> It was not that fun or succesfull but my first (unofficial) competition was at least interesting, I totally recommend our ghetto competition!


That sounds like something from a movie.  Official contests do have lighting requirements I believe.


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## cubesp (Sep 22, 2015)

muchacho said:


> This morning I saw there was going to be a competition in my city in the evening. I asked the organizer and it was even free (and only for 3x3), so I had no excuses, I went, and there were more than 20 competitors (I was the oldest by far).
> 
> While I was inspecting my first cube I realized I could not tell the difference between the orange and the yellow stickers, and the white was also difficult. The competition was on the street, when it was my turn it was around 9 pm and the street lights were the worst at least for my stickers (something that I should at least have checked instead of having my cube in my pocket all that time), in that moment I knew it was not going to be pleasant, my first solve was around 1:50, the rest improving until the fifth one, that I think it was less than 1:10 (I usually average less than 40 seconds).
> 
> It was not that fun or succesfull but my first (unofficial) competition was at least interesting, I totally recommend our ghetto competition!


Thanks for sharing!
I have similar problems with my stickers.
I'll take one stickerless!! 


MarcelP said:


> Me too


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## SenorJuan (Sep 23, 2015)

Being a Northern Hemisphere cuber, the end of Summer means dark evenings ever earlier, and artificial lighting. We all know poor lighting is no good, and I've experimented with different lighting set-ups. Thankfully, incandescent lamps are still available (at a price) here in the U.K, and I found that two 60W bulbs was quite effective - one in the ceiling light, one in a table lamp. The two sources provided a more even light, with less shadow problems.
But I thought I could do better - I remember 100W and 150W bulbs, so I kept my eyes open when browsing a local 'car boot sale' [outdoor flea market] and Success. 200 Watts of the finest tungsten filament. Bwahahaha! Thank you Osram for manufacturing such a beast. And sure enough, when tested, it proved "most excellent". I recommend you search out your own non-eco-friendly lamp.

Safety warning: most lampshades don't care for monster bulbs, "60W max" they cry. So use caution etc.

Has anyone else done any similar experiments? Ever tried those blue daylight simulating "craft lights", they used to be available in 100W rating?
Fluorescent strip lights?


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## MarcelP (Sep 23, 2015)

SenorJuan said:


> Has anyone else done any similar experiments?
> Fluorescent strip lights?



I stop solving after dark. But if I do solve after dark, it helps looking ahead practice. Because of bad light it takes hard work to focus. Making things a breeze when there is day-light


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## cubesp (Sep 23, 2015)

I solve almost after dinner (so I'll never be a speedcuber, but just a cuber!!)
Stickerless cubes solve my problem.


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## h2f (Sep 23, 2015)

There's almost always not natural light during competiotions.


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## EvilGnome6 (Sep 23, 2015)

SenorJuan said:


> Has anyone else done any similar experiments?



I didn't change the lighting, I changed the stickers. Here is my current color scheme:

http://thecubicle.us/stickers_share.php?public_id=27036

I started with half brights from The Cubicle and swapped out the Fluro Yellow for Bright Yellow. It has better contrast with white. Unfortunately, it sits a bit closer to orange now but I confuse colors less frequently than before. I also switched the Blue to Ocean Blue because it's prettier.


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## MarcelP (Sep 23, 2015)

EvilGnome6 said:


> I didn't change the lighting, I changed the stickers. Here is my current color scheme:
> 
> http://thecubicle.us/stickers_share.php?public_id=27036
> 
> I started with half brights from The Cubicle and swapped out the Fluro Yellow for Bright Yellow. It has better contrast with white. Unfortunately, it sits a bit closer to orange now but I confuse colors less frequently than before. I also switched the Blue to Ocean Blue because it's prettier.



Interresting. I am still on fluo Yellow. I might try it sometime. But my red is more awesome  http://thecubicle.us/stickers_share.php?public_id=16556


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## muchacho (Sep 23, 2015)

Mine:
http://thecubicle.us/stickers_share.php?public_id=33601

It's not that yellow and white (I have not replaced the original Moyu's) but a similar one, the yellow Moyu one even looks brighter than that one, I can't understand why it looked so similar to the orange last night.


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## mark49152 (Sep 23, 2015)

SenorJuan said:


> Has anyone else done any similar experiments?


I also suffer in bad lighting. Hotel rooms are the worst. I always take a cube on biz trips to unwind at the end of the day, and often find nothing but a dull yellow glow from an underpowered bedside lamp.

At home I use three overhead 40w spots and a 20w xenon desk lamp behind my shoulder, in one room, and in the other room 10-12 overhead xenon spots in a grid across the ceiling. The latter is better, but it's still worse than daylight, so often if practising after dark I'll do blind cross practice or 3BLD where it won't have as much impact.

On another topic, my 3x3 seems to have got lots worse since I started BLD. A month ago I was averaging around high 17 low 18 pretty consistently. Now I'm around 19-20 and its not just a bad day, this is hundreds of solves over several sessions over several weeks. Sup-20 sessions are not unusual. I don't even feel slow or off-form, I feel the same as before - I'll do a fast solve and hit the timer thinking "that's got to be 16-17" and it will be 19.x at best. Don't know why. Anyone had similar experience?


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## MarcelP (Sep 23, 2015)

mark49152 said:


> Anyone had similar experience?



Yeah, Me. I have not been around 17 like you but I have been very comfertable low 19 with two sub 19 Ao100's. Then something changed. When I look back at my video's from when I was slight faster, I notice less pausing. That is the only thing. The rest is still the same. So I think it all comes down to focus and lookahead. I am practicing lookahead now on daily basis... Sometimes now I feel after doing a practice session that my times are better. Like this morning I did a 19.3X Ao50 with a sub 19 Ao12 in there.


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## muchacho (Sep 23, 2015)

muchacho said:


> ...my first solve was around 1:50, the rest improving until the fifth one, that I think it was less than 1:10 (I usually average less than 40 seconds).


There were 18 people competing, the fastest had a 23 seconds average. I was not the slowest but almost, I think only 2 were slower.

My times:
1. 1:51.26
2. 1:47.50
3. 1:12.86
4. 1.15.19
5. 1.07.92


http://cuborubiklogrono.blogspot.com.es/2015/09/resultado-torneo.html

1---- Meguel Pajares ----- TMi -21,18 ------ TMe -23,03
2---- Eder Villar ----------- TMi -21,60 ------ TMe -24,54
3---- Javier González ----- TMi -36,27 ------ TMe -40,39
4--- Juan Carlos García -- TMi -30,85 ------ TMe -40,48
5---- Alain Fernández -----TMi -36,98 ------ TMe -41,58
6---- Jesus Gil --------------TMi -39,00 ------ TMe -44,15
7---- Mateo Peciña -------- TMi -38,25 ------ TMe -44,56
8----Victor Puras ---------- TMi -40,34 ------ TMe -45,16
9----Adrian Miranda ------ TMi -38,00 ------ TMe -45,83
10--Alonso Del Rincón ---TMi -39,49 ------ TMe -48,66
11---Enrique Ojeda ------- TMi -40,30 ------ TMe -57,24
12---Javier Rodríguez ---- TMi -46,48 ------ TMe -61,82
13--- Daniel Gil ----------- TMi -53,01 ------ TMe -64,37
14--- David Alejos -------- TMi -72,86 ------ TMe -86,94
15--- Dani Sánchez ------- TMi -76,37 ------ TMe -88,35
16--- Unai Pagaldai ------- TMi -75,95 ------ TMe -92,89
17--- Hugo Zangriniz ----- TMi -69,94 ------ TMe -93,28
18--- Carolina Martínez -- TMi - 78,74 ------ TMe -98,32


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## Jason Green (Sep 23, 2015)

mark49152 said:


> I also suffer in bad lighting. Hotel rooms are the worst. I always take a cube on biz trips to unwind at the end of the day...



My bad lighting is in the evening. I like to have a cigar in my garage and practice, timing solves with my phone. As it starts to get dusk it gets difficult, I start throwing out some times because I blame the light, and then give up and watch youtube or something until I go in to practice on my computer. 

I hope no one would go on a trip without a cube, how could you cope!! I have to have mine by me in the car. I scramble with one hand while driving and solve at stop lights. 



MarcelP said:


> Yeah, Me. I have not been around 17 like you but I have been very comfertable low 19 with two sub 19 Ao100's. Then something changed. When I look back at my video's from when I was slight faster, I notice less pausing. That is the only thing. The rest is still the same. So I think it all comes down to focus and lookahead. I am practicing lookahead now on daily basis... Sometimes now I feel after doing a practice session that my times are better. Like this morning I did a 19.3X Ao50 with a sub 19 Ao12 in there.



I have a similar experience where sometimes I will just be off for a whole day. I still have lots of improvement room relative to you guys, so overall I am still improving slowly... I think I'm close to legitimately averaging 35 now.  One thing for sure is if I am tired it affects me. And the look ahead is the other thing. Sometimes I start rushing moves and times get worse because my look ahead is worse.

Marcel, I just now finally took a peak at your alg trainer. I will definitely be using that when I start learning OLL soon! Is it in Java? I wonder if it will run on my iMac (I haven't downloaded it yet). One question, how many algs does it come with "prepackaged"? Just one alg per orientation? Lots of questions... I guess I can download and find out myself!  Lots of smileys in this post too huh?


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## Jason Green (Sep 23, 2015)

Jason Green said:


> Just one alg per orientation?



I think this was a stupid question... why would you want to learn more than one alg per case? I had been thinking about trying some new algs, but if I do I would pick one and commit to it (or not), so practicing multiple at the same time wouldn't make sense.


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## muchacho (Sep 23, 2015)

Maybe if you want to be even faster than fast, for 2x2 I know more than one alg for some cases so I suppose top 3x3 cubers may do that too.


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## Jason Green (Sep 23, 2015)

muchacho said:


> Maybe if you want to be even faster than fast, for 2x2 I know more than one alg for some cases so I suppose top 3x3 cubers may do that too.


Maybe same case but different rotation? Otherwise you would just want the fastest one for you right? Unless you had a different alg depending on how your arthritis was or something... This is the thread for that I guess.


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## MarcelP (Sep 23, 2015)

Jason Green said:


> I think this was a stupid question... why would you want to learn more than one alg per case? I had been thinking about trying some new algs, but if I do I would pick one and commit to it (or not), so practicing multiple at the same time wouldn't make sense.



No, it is no stupid question. I know all OLL's and some OLL's from different angles. (also some PLL's). But in my program there is a set of 57 OLL's, meaning one orientation per case.

EDIT, yes people run it on a Mac too.


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## EvilGnome6 (Sep 23, 2015)

I have also learned several alternate algorithms for big cubes and OH. Doing things like slices on a 7x7 is near impossible.


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## mark49152 (Sep 23, 2015)

MarcelP said:


> When I look back at my video's from when I was slight faster, I notice less pausing. That is the only thing. The rest is still the same. So I think it all comes down to focus and lookahead.


Yeah I agree it's probably due to pauses, due to either worse look ahead or worse recognition. Maybe I'm just not exercising those enough because I'm spending more time on BLD. It's persisted long enough that it's got me wondering whether it's too difficult to really make progress on both at the same time, given that BLD is a very different skill. Obviously no look ahead or recognition, but I even turn differently in BLD, to reduce chance of fumbling and losing it.


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## Jason Green (Sep 23, 2015)

MarcelP said:


> No, it is no stupid question. I know all OLL's and some OLL's from different angles. (also some PLL's). But in my program there is a set of 57 OLL's, meaning one orientation per case.
> 
> EDIT, yes people run it on a Mac too.


I played with it a little at work.  It looks really awesome! And since you can customize algs I guess you could add multiple ones just with different names. 

From playing with it, it looks like it loads the image number based on the row count that entry is on, not based on the name?


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## moralsh (Sep 23, 2015)

muchacho (and anybody else interested), Do you know you have 3 competitions in the next 3 weeks in Spain? Arnold classic Rubik (3rd comp I'm helping organize) in Madrid, Basauri Open near Bilbao and Spanish nationals in Granada, will you be able to go to any of them?

Marcel and I have comps this weekend, anybody else?

I've hardly practiced anything lately so I hope to be relaxed (hard to do if you're running a 100+ people comp, but I'll try ) and do it well enough, other than halve my skewb times I'm not sure if I will improve anything else.

For Granada in two weeks time I'll try to get some more practice and improve anything not improved this weekend.

Marcel, please, beat my average


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## muchacho (Sep 23, 2015)

Probably I will never go to a competition if I have to go to another city, but maybe if someone is interested in hosting one here I'll try to help. Good luck in your comp and Nationals!


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## mark49152 (Sep 23, 2015)

moralsh said:


> Marcel and I have comps this weekend, anybody else?


Yeah I'll be at Cuthberts Open this weekend. I haven't done a lot of practice since ABHC, so my only real goal is to be more composed and not screw up as much. Like don't DNF a 3x3 average! I'll also be doing my first competition 4BLD attempt.


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## Logiqx (Sep 23, 2015)

Jason Green said:


> I think this was a stupid question... why would you want to learn more than one alg per case? I had been thinking about trying some new algs, but if I do I would pick one and commit to it (or not), so practicing multiple at the same time wouldn't make sense.



I know two angles for around a dozen of the OLL cases and different OLL + PLL cases for OH and big cubes. More advanced guys know a lot more algs such as OLLCP algs for some OLL cases.

To be honest, I would not consider starting to learn full OLL until you are comfortably sub-25 with a view to knowing it all when you average around 20s.


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## moralsh (Sep 23, 2015)

muchacho, find a venue and help and competitors will come easily.

Mark, good luck there, I might be attempting 5BLD if i get the courage and will surely do all 3 4BLD attempts.


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## Logiqx (Sep 23, 2015)

mark49152 said:


> Yeah I'll be at Cuthberts Open this weekend. I haven't done a lot of practice since ABHC, so my only real goal is to be more composed and not screw up as much. Like don't DNF a 3x3 average! I'll also be doing my first competition 4BLD attempt.



Good luck Mark. It is a pity that I can't make it this time!

Edit: Good luck to everyone competing this weekend!


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## h2f (Sep 23, 2015)

mark49152 said:


> Yeah I'll be at Cuthberts Open this weekend. I haven't done a lot of practice since ABHC, so my only real goal is to be more composed and not screw up as much. Like don't DNF a 3x3 average! I'll also be doing my first competition 4BLD attempt.



Oh, well good luck.  

I didnt know you do 4bld.


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## Jason Green (Sep 23, 2015)

Logiqx said:


> I know two angles for around a dozen of the OLL cases and different OLL + PLL cases for OH and big cubes. More advanced guys know a lot more algs such as OLLCP algs for some OLL cases.
> 
> To be honest, I would not consider starting to learn full OLL until you are comfortably sub-25 with a view to knowing it all when you average around 20s.


Yeah I was thinking I would start when I am under 30. Some days I want to start sooner, and other days I want to wait until I am sub 20. I have considered just learning the dot cases for OLL right now, to save the extra sequence, but even for me that's probably only one second.


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## EvilGnome6 (Sep 23, 2015)

Logiqx said:


> To be honest, I would not consider starting to learn full OLL until you are comfortably sub-25 with a view to knowing it all when you average around 20s.



I learned full OLL before I was sub 1. I'm still not sub 25...


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## EvilGnome6 (Sep 23, 2015)

moralsh said:


> muchacho, find a venue and help and competitors will come easily.



I'm organizing a competition in Arizona. The hardest part was finding a good venue. The best thing is that you get to pick the events and set the cutoff times.


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## muchacho (Sep 23, 2015)

EvilGnome6 said:


> I'm organizing a competition in Arizona. The hardest part was finding a good venue. The best thing is that you get to pick the events and set the cutoff times.



The good thing is that even just doing it during daylight in a city park would be a great improvement, in that street we were just 15 meters away from an ongoing too noisy sound check for a concert.


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## Logiqx (Sep 23, 2015)

EvilGnome6 said:


> I learned full OLL before I was sub 1. I'm still not sub 25...



Hehe. At one minute, I was using 4LLL and didn't plan to learn any more LL algs, ever.

I actively use over 100 LL algs nowadays. Funny how opinions can change.


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## MarcelP (Sep 24, 2015)

moralsh said:


> Marcel, please, beat my average



LOL. I hope so.. If I can stay relaxed it should be no problem to get sub 20 times.



mark49152 said:


> Yeah I'll be at Cuthberts Open this weekend. I haven't done a lot of practice since ABHC, so my only real goal is to be more composed and not screw up as much. Like don't DNF a 3x3 average! I'll also be doing my first competition 4BLD attempt.



Good luck Mark!


Logiqx said:


> To be honest, I would not consider starting to learn full OLL until you are comfortably sub-25 with a view to knowing it all when you average around 20s.



I started full OLL at 40 secs. I think the sooner you start to learn, the sooner they all will be natural. It took me a whole year to learn (and recognise in a speedsolve) all 57 cases.


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## cubesp (Sep 24, 2015)

I'm sub40 with some single sub30. I'm now trying to speed up my PLL (I know all but I easily reach 6s execution). This implies learning different tricks and is for me hard as new algs (find the way, doing hundreds tests).
After that I'll learn some new OLL, especially those with no edges correctly because these force me to apply 2OLL 2-3 times.
I did not plan to learn algs for LL from different positions, at the moment! 
Sometimes I do only cross to avoid really terrible execution


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## MarcelP (Sep 24, 2015)

cubesp said:


> I'm sub40 with some single sub30. I'm now trying to speed up my PLL (I know all but I easily reach 6s execution). This implies learning different tricks and is for me hard as new algs (find the way, doing hundreds tests).
> After that I'll learn some new OLL, especially those with no edges correctly because these force me to apply 2OLL 2-3 times.
> I did not plan to learn algs for LL from different positions, at the moment!
> Sometimes I do only cross to avoid really terrible execution


At your speed, doing blind CROSS practice, and F2L practice (scramble cube do F2L and scramble again, over and over) can quickly take a few seconds of your average. Cross and F2L are the easiest parts to gain speed. I remember clearly doing 15 seconds over cross. That was when I was in the 1 minute range. Now I do cross plus 1F2L in 3 - 5 secs.. I never practiced speed on LL because I do not like spamming algs. When I repeat a PLL a few times, trying to make it faster, I tend to do other PLL's wrong since that last PLL that I practiced is becomming mussle memory for all my PLL's. LOL..


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## h2f (Sep 24, 2015)

I learnt whole Fridrich when I was over 3 minutes or more. I just knew LBL with some CFOP issues like Niklas, sune and U perm, for 13 years, I had a very bad cube, and LBL got me bored. So I've never speedcubed. And 2 years ago when I saw people solving around I've just started with Fridrich and learnt all algs. Of course my times were dropping down during the process: I remeber breaking barier of 1:30, 1 min, and 40 seconds. It took me no more than 2 months to learn all algs (f2l, oll, pll) but it took longer to get good results. Sub30 ao 100 after 8 months and sub 25 after almost a year. 

At the moment I practice algs: olls and plls. I wanna make them all sub-2. I think learning all of them as soon as you can is a good move. It takes time to be familiar with alg and not thinking about moves during execution.


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## moralsh (Sep 24, 2015)

I learnt all but 20 or so OLLs within my first year of cubing, all but 5 or so within my second year and full OLL Like 4 months ago I average something in the 20-22 range. I've known many angles of some PLLs and OLLs since I learnt full PLL and every now and then I learn another one. I also don't stop improving my F2L cases, some still are ugly

I need some serious practice with last layer, I'm too slow


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## muchacho (Sep 24, 2015)

I started learning some CMLL cases when I was 1 minute or so, because I know it will take me a long time to learn them all and recognize, recall and execute them fast. And to have another thing to practice. Probably I could improve faster now if I just keep practicing the first 2 blocks, but I would get bored pretty soon.


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## cubesp (Sep 24, 2015)

MarcelP said:


> At your speed, doing blind CROSS practice, and F2L practice (scramble cube do F2L and scramble again, over and over) can quickly take a few seconds of your average. Cross and F2L are the easiest parts to gain speed. I remember clearly doing 15 seconds over cross. That was when I was in the 1 minute range. Now I do cross plus 1F2L in 3 - 5 secs.. I never practiced speed on LL because I do not like spamming algs. When I repeat a PLL a few times, trying to make it faster, I tend to do other PLL's wrong since that last PLL that I practiced is becomming mussle memory for all my PLL's. LOL..



I'm still able to do cross in 18s ... I'm practicing cross alone ... sometimes I do it in 2-3s, frequently in 6s
I do F2L very intuitively... I don't know if it is time to stop and thinking seriously on each case. 
I know (read) but I'm not able to use "hole" or "double layer" technics.

By the way as soon as I configure my cam I'll do the avg12 video plus a single solve to be analyzed !!

PLL... it's 4 days a do only Gx ... I'll check if I have the same side effects !!


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## h2f (Sep 24, 2015)

Yeah, recognizing cmlls is painfull. It takes me even 5 seconds. But on the other hand in CFOP noknowing them helpfull, some of them are very easy o recognize: Pi, H, T, L. And I know what to expect after oll and I can force COLL sometimes.


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## Isaac Lai (Sep 24, 2015)

I'm not an 'older' cuber, but I find it interesting that quite a considerable number of you guys in this thread learnt full OLL so early on. I'm nearly sub-12 and I only know around 40/57 of OLL.


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## h2f (Sep 24, 2015)

We, older people, are methodicial persons. That's why we learn all, what said to be known.


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## muchacho (Sep 24, 2015)

I am not as good/fast at learning/remembering things as when I was young, that may be one of the reasons to start soon.


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## mafergut (Sep 24, 2015)

Isaac Lai said:


> I'm not an 'older' cuber, but I find it interesting that quite a considerable number of you guys in this thread learnt full OLL so early on. I'm nearly sub-12 and I only know around 40/57 of OLL.



That's because, you, younger cubers improve so fast that you don't have time to learn full OLL by the time you are already sub-15 at least. I started cubing 2 years ago and I'm still barely sub-20, I have had plenty of time to learn full OLL in these two years. Probably it's not helping me by more than a second in average but I just started learning them and, all of a sudden I had finished with the 57 cases. I wish it was the other way around and, all of a sudden I was sub-10 with just half of the OLLs memorized but, nope!


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## mark49152 (Sep 24, 2015)

MarcelP said:


> I started full OLL at 40 secs. I think the sooner you start to learn, the sooner they all will be natural.


I agree with Marcel. There's no point delaying learning. Better to learn new things continuously and steadily, without rushing, but understand what are the most worthwhile new things to learn and prioritise them accordingly. I also took around a year to learn full OLL, but did the following analysis to work out which OLL groups were most worthwhile to learn, then learned those first:-

https://www.speedsolving.com/forum/...hen-and-how-to-move-from-2-look-to-1-look-OLL


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## MarcelP (Sep 24, 2015)

Isaac Lai said:


> I'm not an 'older' cuber, but I find it interesting that quite a considerable number of you guys in this thread learnt full OLL so early on. I'm nearly sub-12 and I only know around 40/57 of OLL.



Yeah, but I am pretty sure, that on the OLL's that you do not know, you know what 'OLL'-alg to perform on such case, and know in what of the known OLL's it will result in. Meaning, your 2L OLL is still probably faster than us Oldies 1L OLL  At 40 seconds a 1L OLL vs 2LL (or even 3LL in some cases) will shave on 5 - 10 seconds easily. At your speed it might result maybe in 1 seconds better averages.. If it was to me I rather be averaging 12 seconds wil 2 look OLL


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## Jason Green (Sep 24, 2015)

mark49152 said:


> I agree with Marcel. There's no point delaying learning. Better to learn new things continuously and steadily, without rushing, but understand what are the most worthwhile new things to learn and prioritise them accordingly. I also took around a year to learn full OLL, but did the following analysis to work out which OLL groups were most worthwhile to learn, then learned those first:-
> 
> https://www.speedsolving.com/forum/...hen-and-how-to-move-from-2-look-to-1-look-OLL


Cool I'll check that out!


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## EvilGnome6 (Sep 24, 2015)

Isaac Lai said:


> I'm not an 'older' cuber, but I find it interesting that quite a considerable number of you guys in this thread learnt full OLL so early on. I'm nearly sub-12 and I only know around 40/57 of OLL.



When you're older, it takes much longer to develop speed and dexterity, regardless of how much effort you put into it. It's more rewarding to divert some of that effort into learning algorithms.


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## MarcelP (Sep 24, 2015)

EvilGnome6 said:


> When you're older, it takes much longer to develop speed and dexterity, regardless of how much effort you put into it. It's more rewarding to divert some of that effort into learning algorithms.



I had to look up the word *dexterity*. Now I know


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## mafergut (Sep 24, 2015)

EvilGnome6 said:


> When you're older, it takes much longer to develop speed and dexterity, regardless of how much effort you put into it. It's more rewarding to divert some of that effort into learning algorithms.



Thanks Mike. Now I don't feel as bad for having spent two years in getting to "almost" sub-20... even taking into account that I have practiced 3x3 almost exclusively, which means I'm absolutely terrible at any other events like 2x2, 4x4, pyra... if at all capable of solving them (no idea of how to solve an sq-1, clock, 6x6, 7x7...)


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## Schmidt (Sep 24, 2015)

MarcelP said:


> I had to look up the word *dexterity*. Now I know



What?!? You never played Dn'D.

About learning OLL's: I learned full to get me to sub30.

and good luck Marcel. Please beat my avg. It is almost embarrassing to be officially faster than you


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## MarcelP (Sep 24, 2015)

Schmidt said:


> What?!? You never played Dn'D.



Nope.. I never have played any game. Not into that.



Schmidt said:


> and good luck Marcel. Please beat my avg. It is almost embarrassing to be officially faster than you



LOL, there is a good chance you will stay offical faster than me for a while. Your ice cold nerves making you do an average much faster than your general average is not something I can pull of


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## mafergut (Sep 24, 2015)

MarcelP said:


> LOL, there is a good chance you will stay offical faster than me for a while. Your ice cold nerves making you do an average much faster than your general average is not something I can pull of



I agree that's not an easy feat. I'm sure if I ever go to a comp I'll do much worse than my average performance at home, which would now mean no better than a 25 sec Ao5, I'm sure. Also the cube pick-up time and hands back to the timer would add like half a second extra to my normal times.


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## Jason Green (Sep 24, 2015)

mafergut said:


> I agree that's not an easy feat. I'm sure if I ever go to a comp I'll do much worse than my average performance at home, which would now mean no better than a 25 sec Ao5, I'm sure. Also the cube pick-up time and hands back to the timer would add like half a second extra to my normal times.


Yeah I'll probably blow it if I compete.  I'm going to next time I have a chance though. I actually started practicing picking up the cube on my "desk" practice at my PC. And I really like doing the scrambles now instead of just randomly mixing it up. 

I'm always impressed when people get PBs at contests. I wonder if they are including practice when they say that.


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## mafergut (Sep 24, 2015)

moralsh said:


> muchacho (and anybody else interested), Do you know you have 3 competitions in the next 3 weeks in Spain? Arnold classic Rubik (3rd comp I'm helping organize) in Madrid, Basauri Open near Bilbao and Spanish nationals in Granada, will you be able to go to any of them? [...]



I wish I could attend the Arnold classic. I saw it but I'm not travelling to Madrid just for a cube comp, at least not for now. Even if I skip Friday, which holds events I would not compete it, I would have to stay Saturday to Sunday and the hotel, etc. costs a lot of money. The other comps are farther away from where I live so, no chance. It was a surprise to see that this year Nationals are going to be held in Granada. Tell me if you organize a comp in Valladolid or nearby and I'll be there!



Jason Green said:


> Yeah I'll probably blow it if I compete.  I'm going to next time I have a chance though. I actually started practicing picking up the cube on my "desk" practice at my PC. And I really like doing the scrambles now instead of just randomly mixing it up.
> 
> I'm always impressed when people get PBs at contests. I wonder if they are including practice when they say that.



Yeah, I also practice at times picking up the cube from my desk and dropping it before pressing the space bar. I have wanted to buy a Stackmat Pro for some time but here in Spain it is quite expensive and right now they are out of stock but I'll get one sooner or later.


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## muchacho (Sep 24, 2015)

mafergut said:


> I have wanted to buy a Stackmat Pro for some time but here in Spain it is quite expensive and right now they are out of stock but I'll get one sooner or later.


I've seen some timers at lightake.com (for 10 USD or so) that would probably do the trick.


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## muchacho (Sep 24, 2015)

mafergut said:


> Also the cube pick-up time and hands back to the timer would add like half a second extra to my normal times.


It was for sure much more than half a second for me, but it was the first time I used a timer and I had never tried to solve picking the cube.


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## Lid (Sep 24, 2015)

This old man just did a OH avg100: *25.948* ... pew


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## mafergut (Sep 24, 2015)

muchacho said:


> I've seen some timers at lightake.com (for 10 USD or so) that would probably do the trick.



Yeah, I have seen those too but I'm not sure they are good quality and I also want to make sure that it can be connected to the computer to integrate it with csTimer. One of them says it can be connected but I don't know. Well, $10 is not that much money in case it does not work well, maybe I'll try that.


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## Jason Green (Sep 24, 2015)

Lid said:


> This old man just did a OH avg100: *25.948* ... pew


Awesome! I can't move the cube fast at all with one hand. I don't really practice it, maybe someday I will.


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## moralsh (Sep 24, 2015)

I like OH a lot, but my LL takes forever and it seems hard to improve my ~40 averages. 25 is impossible for me


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## h2f (Sep 24, 2015)

moralsh said:


> 25 is impossible for me



Impossible is nothing.


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## cubesp (Sep 24, 2015)

Lid said:


> This old man just did a OH avg100: *25.948* ... pew



Great !!! Compliments !!!

I tried just a few times and I feel as I have a "glued rubik" in place of a weilong v2 !!


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## cubesp (Sep 24, 2015)

mafergut said:


> Yeah, I have seen those too but I'm not sure they are good quality and I also want to make sure that it can be connected to the computer to integrate it with csTimer. One of them says it can be connected but I don't know. Well, $10 is not that much money in case it does not work well, maybe I'll try that.



One of my friend gave me a QJ timer, the one you can find on some sites for 10$ more or less (I use zcube, but I think it is available on other store) without mat.
My friend had problems connecting it, but I bought a new cable and I connected without problems with csTimer and some other sw for speed timing.

I think it is not "official" and enabled for competitions, but it works well.


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## chtiger (Sep 25, 2015)

There was some recent talk here about 4x4 cubes. Does anybody have a shengshou? I bought it because it was the cheapest, but I have a very hard time with it. I can't solve it without a bazillion lock-ups. I just tried two 4BLD solves and it's a nightmare doing centers with all those slice moves (surprisingly solved centers correct both times, but messed up edges and corners). Would a different cube help, or is my turning just sloppy and I haven't had enough practice doing 4x4? I also have a shengshou 3x3 and it requires more precise turning (pieces don't have the rounded off inner corners like on other cubes).


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## mafergut (Sep 25, 2015)

cubesp said:


> One of my friend gave me a QJ timer, the one you can find on some sites for 10$ more or less (I use zcube, but I think it is available on other store) without mat.
> My friend had problems connecting it, but I bought a new cable and I connected without problems with csTimer and some other sw for speed timing.
> 
> I think it is not "official" and enabled for competitions, but it works well.



Maybe I will try it, even though I need a mat as well. Thanks for confirming the computer connectivity.



moralsh said:


> I like OH a lot, but my LL takes forever and it seems hard to improve my ~40 averages. 25 is impossible for me



Same here. My OH PB single is 33.04 full step and it was like 18 sec cross+F2L and 15 sec LL. My averages are more on the 45 to 50 still but I don't see me getting a 25 average anytime soon. Maybe 35 or so is possible for me, for now I would be happy with sub-40 Ao100.



chtiger said:


> There was some recent talk here about 4x4 cubes. Does anybody have a shengshou? I bought it because it was the cheapest, but I have a very hard time with it. I can't solve it without a bazillion lock-ups. I just tried two 4BLD solves and it's a nightmare doing centers with all those slice moves (surprisingly solved centers correct both times, but messed up edges and corners). Would a different cube help, or is my turning just sloppy and I haven't had enough practice doing 4x4? I also have a shengshou 3x3 and it requires more precise turning (pieces don't have the rounded off inner corners like on other cubes).



You would definitely benefit from a better 4x4 or else you will have to break in your SS with hundreds of solves and also lube it well and maybe even florian-mod it a bit. Not sure, never had a SS 4x4. I have a Moyu Aosu and it's just great out of the box but right now I would recommend a Yuxin 4x4. It's as good as the Aosu if not better and it's also much cheaper. The Cyclone Boys G4 is also good, I've heard, but it also requires some set up, while the Yuxin is near-perfect out of the box. Either for speedsolving or blindfold you will be glad you bought it.


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## MarcelP (Sep 25, 2015)

mafergut said:


> Yeah, I also practice at times picking up the cube from my desk and dropping it before pressing the space bar. I have wanted to buy a Stackmat Pro for some time but here in Spain it is quite expensive and right now they are out of stock but I'll get one sooner or later.



If you do not want to invest in a timer you can use the free PrismaPuzzleTimer and set it ti start and finish with CLTR of ALT (can remember which). This forces you to set the cube down by start and drop it before ending..


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## muchacho (Sep 25, 2015)

Is Ctrl, I'll try it, thanks.


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## mafergut (Sep 25, 2015)

MarcelP said:


> If you do not want to invest in a timer you can use the free PrismaPuzzleTimer and set it ti start and finish with CLTR of ALT (can remember which). This forces you to set the cube down by start and drop it before ending..



Interesting! In fact that might be a bit more difficult even than putting the palms on the pads of a real timer, as Ctrl keys are pretty small 
Worth a try if it's free anyway, thanks!


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## Logiqx (Sep 25, 2015)

Lid said:


> This old man just did a OH avg100: *25.948* ... pew



Very nice. I think I should start practicing OH again... I want to become sub-30!


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## MarcelP (Sep 25, 2015)

Logiqx said:


> Very nice. I think I should start practicing OH again... I want to become sub-30!



I have not practiced OH and I need to be able to do LL OH on my competition this weekend. I have forgotten all LL algs.. I might have to cancel that event.


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## mafergut (Sep 25, 2015)

MarcelP said:


> I have not practiced OH and I need to be able to do LL OH on my competition this weekend. I have forgotten all LL algs.. I might have to cancel that event.



I'm lucky that I already used the <R, U> 2-gen algs for U-perms in 2H, but I had to learn the 2-gen H-perm (I am terrible at doing the M / M' / M2 with "table abuse"). I have still some PLLs to learn / re-learn (I hate OH amnesia!) for OH, namely the E-perm and both R-perms, all of which at the moment I do with and A-perm followed by either another A-perm (for E) or Jb-perm or whatever I get.

For all but H-perm I use the same PLL that I use for 2H but I had to re-learn all of them for OH anyway (but that takes much less than learning an entirely new alg) and some of them are pretty ugly for OH as they have lots of F/F', D/D', etc. Also for F-perm instead of my 2H alg, that has 2 cube rotations in the middle, I use the one that has a T-perm in the middle (R' U' F' T-perm except the last two moves, U R, or something like that).

With OLL it's more or less the same, many OLLs I use are terrible for OH, as they have f/f' or are completely lefty, like the little L that goes F' (L' U' L U)x2 F that I do with a z rotation but I almost always mess up. Also, like half of the OLLs I still can't do when OH so I have to go 2L OLL with those.

With all these shortcommings it's not strange that my OH LL is so bad currently.


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## h2f (Sep 25, 2015)

chtiger said:


> There was some recent talk here about 4x4 cubes. Does anybody have a shengshou? I bought it because it was the cheapest, but I have a very hard time with it. I can't solve it without a bazillion lock-ups. I just tried two 4BLD solves and it's a nightmare doing centers with all those slice moves (surprisingly solved centers correct both times, but messed up edges and corners). Would a different cube help, or is my turning just sloppy and I haven't had enough practice doing 4x4? I also have a shengshou 3x3 and it requires more precise turning (pieces don't have the rounded off inner corners like on other cubes).



I have ss v5, I just did 1:18.xx without warmup and parity thing, with easy centers. I have it for 2 years, did around 1k or 2k solves - no more. Than bought Aosu - it's much better. SS lockups a little but it's not so bad. It need regulation and lube. But if you can buy something better I recommend it.


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## moralsh (Sep 25, 2015)

Mafergut, Our OH times are quite similar, My PB is 29.15 PLL skip or 30.something full step, I can sub 40 an Ao5 but I'm usually a bit higher.

My OH PLLs are the exact same as my 2H PLL, and my Us are the M ones, I have somehow get used to it 

Marcel, just practice de 2look algorythms, and try some edge control to get an easier case, but don't cancel the event, it's fun 

today I just have skewb at 14:00, let's see what we can do...


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## mafergut (Sep 25, 2015)

moralsh said:


> Mafergut, Our OH times are quite similar, My PB is 29.15 PLL skip or 30.something full step, I can sub 40 an Ao5 but I'm usually a bit higher.
> 
> My OH PLLs are the exact same as my 2H PLL, and my Us are the M ones, I have somehow get used to it
> 
> ...



Hi Raúl. It looks like you're a bit faster than I am at OH. But I also love the event so I'll keep practising and improving. Curiously enough I also use the M algs for Us. I use the 2-gen algs for bar on front and the M algs for bar on back, but I hate the case with U' (I do it with the right index finger OH style but I usually lock up badly or even mess up the alg). Anyway, for OH I prefer to rotate the cube or AUF it so that bar is in front.

Good luck with the comp today. I would like to be able to attend soooo much


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## EvilGnome6 (Sep 25, 2015)

mafergut said:


> I have a Moyu Aosu and it's just great out of the box but right now I would recommend a Yuxin 4x4. It's as good as the Aosu if not better and it's also much cheaper. The Cyclone Boys G4 is also good, I've heard, but it also requires some set up, while the Yuxin is near-perfect out of the box. Either for speedsolving or blindfold you will be glad you bought it.



Hmmm. I have 3 AoSus and they were all crap out of the box. Maybe it was bad luck or everybody has had theirs for so long they have forgotten about the catchy/clicky center layers that take a few hundred solves to break in. That aside, it is much better than the ShengShou.

The YuXin is silky smooth out of the box but I don't think it stays as stable or holds a cube shape as well as the AoSu. In my mind that would be a hindrance with BLD.


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## mafergut (Sep 25, 2015)

EvilGnome6 said:


> Hmmm. I have 3 AoSus and they were all crap out of the box. Maybe it was bad luck or everybody has had theirs for so long they have forgotten about the catchy/clicky center layers that take a few hundred solves to break in. That aside, it is much better than the ShengShou.
> 
> The YuXin is silky smooth out of the box but I don't think it stays as stable or holds a cube shape as well as the AoSu. In my mind that would be a hindrance with BLD.



I don't think I have done 100 solves on my AoSu yet. Also I don't remember it catching in the inner layers when it was new. I can record a video if you want showing how it turns, even though I'm a patzer at 4x4. Maybe I don't know better and that's why I think it's great.  I haven't even lubed it or anything.


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## Logiqx (Sep 25, 2015)

MarcelP said:


> I have not practiced OH and I need to be able to do LL OH on my competition this weekend. I have forgotten all LL algs.. I might have to cancel that event.



Just do the beginner approach with 4 algs... OLL with two algs - Fat Sune for edges and Sune for corners.

That leaves PLL (a-perm or j-perm for corners) and a u-perm.

You can also use anti-sune to reduce move count during corner orientation, totalling 5 algs.


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## EvilGnome6 (Sep 25, 2015)

I put together this OH 4 Look Last Layer sheet to learn OH. The 4 highlighted algs can be used as an OH beginners method. 

https://docs.google.com/document/d/...e8ufMk5BmBNO8F69usWmweU/edit?usp=docslist_api


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## Jason Green (Sep 25, 2015)

EvilGnome6 said:


> I put together this OH 4 Look Last Layer sheet to learn OH. The 4 highlighted algs can be used as an OH beginners method.
> 
> https://docs.google.com/document/d/...e8ufMk5BmBNO8F69usWmweU/edit?usp=docslist_api


That's cool, if I start practicing OH some day I may use that!

I think someone mentioned filming a 4x4 ao12... I would probably be around 6 hours on that.


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## Logiqx (Sep 25, 2015)

EvilGnome6 said:


> I put together this OH 4 Look Last Layer sheet to learn OH. The 4 highlighted algs can be used as an OH beginners method.
> 
> https://docs.google.com/document/d/...e8ufMk5BmBNO8F69usWmweU/edit?usp=docslist_api


I'd recommend using the adjacent flip alg for edge orientation. It comes up twice as often and it's faster than an opposite flip. 

Sent from my GT-I9305 using Tapatalk


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## mafergut (Sep 25, 2015)

EvilGnome6 said:


> I put together this OH 4 Look Last Layer sheet to learn OH. The 4 highlighted algs can be used as an OH beginners method.
> 
> https://docs.google.com/document/d/...e8ufMk5BmBNO8F69usWmweU/edit?usp=docslist_api



Is it really faster for OH to do rUr'(RUR'U')rU'r' for opposite edge flip than F(RUR'U)F' ?


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## EvilGnome6 (Sep 25, 2015)

Logiqx said:


> I'd recommend using the adjacent flip alg for edge orientation. It comes up twice as often and it's faster than an opposite flip.
> 
> Sent from my GT-I9305 using Tapatalk



That's a good point. I'll update my sheet. 

Also, since it's a Google Doc, you should be able to make a copy and modify it to your liking.


----------



## EvilGnome6 (Sep 25, 2015)

mafergut said:


> Is it really faster for OH to do rUr'(RUR'U')rU'r' for opposite edge flip than F(RUR'U)F' ?



I can't do the F and F' turns without regripping which makes the standard alg kind of slow for me. Keep in mind I'm just learning OH so I'm not a good judge of what the best algorithms are. I just pulled them from Antoine Cantin's OH site.


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## mafergut (Sep 25, 2015)

EvilGnome6 said:


> I can't do the F and F' turns without regripping which makes the standard alg kind of slow for me. Keep in mind I'm just learning OH so I'm not a good judge of what the best algorithms are. I just pulled them from Antoine Cantin's OH site.



If Antoine Cantin uses them then they must be faster but I'm so slow now that currently I'm actually faster with FRUR'U'F' because I cannot really benefit from the longer alg being 2-gen, even though I realize that the re-grip must take some time. Do you use (for F/F') this grip between index on U face and ring on D face? I'm starting to get used to it and, even though it takes some time, it's not as bad as I thought.


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## EvilGnome6 (Sep 25, 2015)

mafergut said:


> Do you use (for F/F') this grip between index on U face and ring on D face? I'm starting to get used to it and, even though it takes some time, it's not as bad as I thought.



I use my thumb to push up the F and my index finger to pull down the F'. That makes the regrips really bad.


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## mark49152 (Sep 25, 2015)

Logiqx said:


> It is a pity that I can't make it this time!


Yeah that's a shame especially with it being so close to you, but never mind, you'll be at UKC right?

Good luck Marcel and everyone else competing this weekend!


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## cubesp (Sep 25, 2015)

good luck to all old cuber involved in competitions in these days !!


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## h2f (Sep 25, 2015)

Yes good luck. Get yours pbs. 

Wysłane z mojego GT-S7580 przy użyciu Tapatalka


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## Logiqx (Sep 25, 2015)

mark49152 said:


> Yeah that's a shame especially with it being so close to you, but never mind, you'll be at UKC right?
> 
> Good luck Marcel and everyone else competing this weekend!


That's the plan. I'm registered but the other half doesn't know yet. lol

Sent from my GT-I9305 using Tapatalk


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## cubesp (Sep 25, 2015)

dangerous position ...

"No I didn't. Honest... I ran out of gas! I--I had a flat tire! I didn't have enough money for cab fare! My tux didn't come back from the cleaners! An old friend came in from out of town! Someone stole my car! There was an earthquake! A terrible flood! Locusts! IT WASN'T MY FAULT, I SWEAR TO GOD!!!"


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## chtiger (Sep 25, 2015)

mafergut said:


> You would definitely benefit from a better 4x4 or else you will have to break in your SS with hundreds of solves and also lube it well and maybe even florian-mod it a bit. Not sure, never had a SS 4x4. I have a Moyu Aosu and it's just great out of the box but right now I would recommend a Yuxin 4x4. It's as good as the Aosu if not better and it's also much cheaper. The Cyclone Boys G4 is also good, I've heard, but it also requires some set up, while the Yuxin is near-perfect out of the box. Either for speedsolving or blindfold you will be glad you bought it.





h2f said:


> I have ss v5, I just did 1:18.xx without warmup and parity thing, with easy centers. I have it for 2 years, did around 1k or 2k solves - no more. Than bought Aosu - it's much better. SS lockups a little but it's not so bad. It need regulation and lube. But if you can buy something better I recommend it.





EvilGnome6 said:


> Hmmm. I have 3 AoSus and they were all crap out of the box. Maybe it was bad luck or everybody has had theirs for so long they have forgotten about the catchy/clicky center layers that take a few hundred solves to break in. That aside, it is much better than the ShengShou.
> 
> The YuXin is silky smooth out of the box but I don't think it stays as stable or holds a cube shape as well as the AoSu. In my mind that would be a hindrance with BLD.


I've never lubed or adjusted my 4x4 and probably haven't done 100 solves on it, but it sounds like a different cube would be a bigger improvement. I buy from Amazon.com and on there the Yuxin and Moyu AoSu are similarly priced, but the Moyu ships from China and Yuxin ships from US, so I ordered a Yuxin and will receive it Monday.


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## h2f (Sep 25, 2015)

But will you lube your new cube? If you didnt know - do 100-200 solves and clean it and lube new cube after that. It will go much better. If know it - forget what I wrote.

I just had 3rd 4bld in a row after total disaster last week and about 10 dnfs in last month. Times were not great (mo3 11:53), but in the last cube it could be sub-10, but couldnt remeber last wings pair and had to review memo. I've lost a lot of time but finally found it and finished.


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## chtiger (Sep 26, 2015)

h2f said:


> But will you lube your new cube? If you didnt know - do 100-200 solves and clean it and lube new cube after that. It will go much better. If know it - forget what I wrote.
> 
> I just had 3rd 4bld in a row after total disaster last week and about 10 dnfs in last month. Times were not great (mo3 11:53), but in the last cube it could be sub-10, but couldnt remeber last wings pair and had to review memo. I've lost a lot of time but finally found it and finished.


I just lubed my Shengshou 4x4 and it did make a big difference. I don't know why I hadn't lubed it before. It still locks up too much with my lack of precise turning, but the middle slice moves needed for 4Bld are a whole lot easier now. Good enough that I'll try some more 4BLD solves this weekend. I'd consider your 3 straight successes with 11:53 avg as great. I'm hoping for any success, then sub 20.


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## h2f (Sep 26, 2015)

chtiger said:


> Good enough that I'll try some more 4BLD solves this weekend.



I hope you will be successful.  I was sub-10 in the summer but few weeks ago I got terrible lockup in blind events - lots of dnfs, memory holes etc. But slowly I'm out of it - did a little practice, added many new rooms it looks, start solving slower, and like it works. I think I've overloaded my memory.


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## MarcelP (Sep 26, 2015)

Logiqx said:


> That's the plan. I'm registered but the other half doesn't know yet. lol



LOL... (really loud).. Mike be carefull, cubing is less important than a healthy relation.. If you go.. Good luck!



moralsh said:


> Marcel, just practice de 2look algorythms, and try some edge control to get an easier case, but don't cancel the event, it's fun



There are 90 competitors. Normally 60 are allowed. Therefor the cutoff ate much harder. So anything over 1 minute at OH gets a DNF. I hate DNF's so I do not compete.


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## mark49152 (Sep 26, 2015)

MarcelP said:


> LOL... (really loud).. Mike be carefull, cubing is less important than a healthy relation.. If you go.. Good luck!


My other half is coming with me to UKC. Not sure how good an idea that is...!


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## MarcelP (Sep 26, 2015)

mark49152 said:


> My other half is coming with me to UKC. Not sure how good an idea that is...!



She probably will get bored in half an hour. Hopefully there is a shopping mall or something nearby?


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## mark49152 (Sep 26, 2015)

MarcelP said:


> She probably will get bored in half an hour. Hopefully there is a shopping mall or something nearby?


Oh yeah, that has all been thoroughly researched...


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## mark49152 (Sep 26, 2015)

Day 1 report. DNFed all 3 blind solves. First couple were ~2:30 so I was rushing. Second solve was almost there and spoiled by an annoying Y-perm fumble right at the end. Last solve I took my time but DNFed too at about 4:30. Bit disappointing as my comp PB remains at 4:21 and I know I can do much better.

Made up for it with 4x4 PBs - 1:17 average, 1:10 single - and also 2x2 average PB 7.86.

Edit: and made it to 2nd round 2x2. My first time in 2nd round of anything!


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## Jason Green (Sep 26, 2015)

mark49152 said:


> Day 1 report. DNFed all 3 blind solves. First couple were ~2:30 so I was rushing. Second solve was almost there and spoiled by an annoying Y-perm fumble right at the end. Last solve I took my time but DNFed too at about 4:30. Bit disappointing as my comp PB remains at 4:21 and I know I can do much better.
> 
> Made up for it with 4x4 PBs - 1:17 average, 1:10 single - and also 2x2 average PB 7.86.
> 
> Edit: and made it to 2nd round 2x2. My first time in 2nd round of anything!


Congrats, I would be thrilled to get to a second round in something!


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## MarcelP (Sep 26, 2015)

mark49152 said:


> Edit: and made it to 2nd round 2x2. My first time in 2nd round of anything!



Awesome! My comp is a one day competition.. tomorrow


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## mark49152 (Sep 26, 2015)

Jason Green said:


> Congrats, I would be thrilled to get to a second round in something!


Cheers. Unfortunately I was back to my usual 2x2 form in round two. A counting 12 and a DNF where my cube disintegrated mid-solve...


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## mafergut (Sep 26, 2015)

mark49152 said:


> Cheers. Unfortunately I was back to my usual 2x2 form in round two. A counting 12 and a DNF where my cube disintegrated mid-solve...



Sorry to hear that but those 4x4 times are great. I wish I was near those. I think that it was the thrill of getting to 2nd round that got you nervous or else you could have done much better. By the way, which 2x2 do you use? Not normal that a 2x2 disintegrates unless it's a Dayan Zanchi. I have one and I'm trying to break it in but it keeps popping all the time. At the same time I got a Cyclone Boys (stickerless) and it was great out of the box, so the CB is my main.

Talking about getting nervous, I can't go to a comp, I'm sure I'd DNF every time. I was trying to record my Ao12 video today 1 o 2 weeks late for Marcel's challenge and I have been completely unable to finish an Ao12 without messing up badly, forgetting to start the clock, dropping the cube, forgetting to start the camera (just when I had done a 15.xx), ... I will try again tomorrow.


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## moralsh (Sep 26, 2015)

Day 1 & 2 Report

Skewb: 16.21 Average 12.40 single Not enough to make it to the final but at least puts to rest my 40something average and 20something single

OH:Nervous, starting with a bad solve (53) then a good one (39) then a missed oportunity of an xcross because I messed up OLL, then PB and lastly average. Both PBs
2x2: didn't practice but almost got PB (missed it because I somehow forgot 1 PBL in the middle of a solve) 7.84 & 6.50 single
5x5: didn't make cutoff (3:00) 3:10 single at least
4x4: popped while OLL parity and had to start all over again, then 1:41 and 1:27 single, PB but not very happy with the solves
Pyra: move along, move along
3x3: More work for Marcel, I just bested your single by 0.01 and improved my average to 20.16. Too bad I had a counting 23, but very happy with low 19, 18 and 17, all of them full step.

Tomorrow Blind and some second rounds, Multi and bigBLD will have to wait for another comp, because Organizing gets me really tired.

Good luck tomorrow to everybody!


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## Logiqx (Sep 26, 2015)

Congrats on the 4x4 times Mark. 

Nice to see a 7.x average on 2x2 as well.

Good luck with 3x3 and 5x5.

Sent from my GT-I9305 using Tapatalk


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## Logiqx (Sep 26, 2015)

moralsh said:


> Day 1 & 2 Report
> 
> Skewb: 16.21 Average 12.40 single Not enough to make it to the final but at least puts to rest my 40something average and 20something single
> 
> ...


Congrats on the 3x3 times.

I'll update the over 40s results for everyone next week.

Sent from my GT-I9305 using Tapatalk


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## mark49152 (Sep 26, 2015)

MarcelP said:


> Awesome! My comp is a one day competition.. tomorrow


Yeah I checked cubecomps looking for you and saw that! Lots of events missing for a Nationals, why is it only one day?

Good luck tomorrow!



mafergut said:


> Sorry to hear that but those 4x4 times are great......By the way, which 2x2 do you use? Not normal that a 2x2 disintegrates unless it's a Dayan Zanchi.


Thanks... And good guess 



Logiqx said:


> Congrats on the 4x4 times Mark.


Cheers, now you have a target for UKC 

Good luck Raul in blind tomorrow!


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## cubesp (Sep 26, 2015)

mafergut said:


> Sorry to hear that but those 4x4 times are great. I wish I was near those. I think that it was the thrill of getting to 2nd round that got you nervous or else you could have done much better. By the way, which 2x2 do you use? Not normal that a 2x2 disintegrates unless it's a Dayan Zanchi. I have one and I'm trying to break it in but it keeps popping all the time. At the same time I got a Cyclone Boys (stickerless) and it was great out of the box, so the CB is my main.
> 
> Talking about getting nervous, I can't go to a comp, I'm sure I'd DNF every time. I was trying to record my Ao12 video today 1 o 2 weeks late for Marcel's challenge and I have been completely unable to finish an Ao12 without messing up badly, forgetting to start the clock, dropping the cube, forgetting to start the camera (just when I had done a 15.xx), ... I will try again tomorrow.



Mafergut,
I have the same problem with cam and public solve !!
Today I tested my cam (it is just a 30fps cam and I turn sooo fast ...  ) because I'd like to post my avg12 for MarcelP's avg12 virtual event 2015 (MAVE15)

From one or two months I can say to be sub40; my avg5/12 are usually sub40 and PB single is 26.2... In these tests I had times between 42 and 1:10 !!! 

I don't know if I'll DNF all rounds, but I'll go in October to my first comp !!
And I'll do the video avg12. Maybe it will be about 37 minutes ...


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## h2f (Sep 27, 2015)

> Day 1 report. DNFed all 3 blind solves. First couple were ~2:30 so I was rushing. Second solve was almost there and spoiled by an annoying Y-perm fumble right at the end. Last solve I took my time but DNFed too at about 4:30. Bit disappointing as my comp PB remains at 4:21 and I know I can do much better.
> 
> Made up for it with 4x4 PBs - 1:17 average, 1:10 single - and also 2x2 average PB 7.86.
> 
> Edit: and made it to 2nd round 2x2. My first time in 2nd round of anything!



Congratulations of your times in 4x4 - I wish I could do avg. You will be better in 3bld on next comp. Blind events are the hardest in competiotion.



> Day 1 & 2 Report
> 
> Skewb: 16.21 Average 12.40 single Not enough to make it to the final but at least puts to rest my 40something average and 20something single
> 
> ...



Nice avgs. Congrats and good luck today.


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## muchacho (Sep 27, 2015)

Am I right if I assume nobody likes 2x2 (except me)?


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## Logiqx (Sep 27, 2015)

muchacho said:


> Am I right if I assume nobody likes 2x2 (except me)?


I like 2x2 but haven't done it for a few weeks.

Sent from my GT-I9305 using Tapatalk


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## cubesp (Sep 27, 2015)

muchacho said:


> Am I right if I assume nobody likes 2x2 (except me)?



I'm a new born (9 months!!) and I'm studing 222 
I like that but I don't know why I forgot algs expecially both layer LL. 
My last try with timer was embarassing, near 20s because I did first layer an then oll pll as a 333.


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## muchacho (Sep 27, 2015)

Who started cubing with a 2x2 instead of a 3x3? Maybe that (and that 3x3 is newer/slower for me) is why I like it more than usual.


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## MarcelP (Sep 27, 2015)

Oh man.. two 2+'s in first round Rubiks... sh! T


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## h2f (Sep 27, 2015)

MarcelP said:


> Oh man.. two 2+'s in first round Rubiks... sh! T



Sad.

I cant say I dont like 2x2 but I practice it only before comp.


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## mafergut (Sep 27, 2015)

muchacho said:


> Am I right if I assume nobody likes 2x2 (except me)?



I like 2x2 (even though not as much as 3x3 or OH). It's just that:
1) I only know Ortega, so I'm a bit slow;
2) In 2x2 TPS is much more important that in 3x3 and we oldies do not excel in TPS so I'm slow


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## MarcelP (Sep 27, 2015)

Jay! I did well in second round with only one 2+


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## Jason Green (Sep 27, 2015)

MarcelP said:


> Jay! I did well in second round with only one 2+


Does anyone have any videos of there competitions to share? That would be cool.


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## mark49152 (Sep 27, 2015)

MarcelP said:


> Jay! I did well in second round with only one 2+


Some nice PBs there Marcel!

My day #2 report: First round 3x3 was a bit of a mess, with a +2 and a DNF (corner twist in PLL) but 21.98 was enough to get to second round.

Then 5x5 was not good. Second solve was my worst yet, as I didn't notice some unsolved edges and had to go back and fix them later.

Failed 4BLD in 29 mins after missing one piece in memo! Gutted! I thought I had hit my buffer but it was actually K (Speffz). And my buffer was in K. School boy error.

3x3 second round offered nice consolation with a sub-20 average, 19.89, despite a sup-30 solve due to corner twist during F2L.

Really enjoyed this comp!


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## EvilGnome6 (Sep 27, 2015)

Jason Green said:


> Does anyone have any videos of there competitions to share? That would be cool.



My YouTube channel is mostly videos of me at competitions:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCj4tV3kldFwa2aN5KCSy7DA


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## Jason Green (Sep 27, 2015)

EvilGnome6 said:


> My YouTube channel is mostly videos of me at competitions:
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCj4tV3kldFwa2aN5KCSy7DA


Awesome I'll check it out!


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## MarcelP (Sep 27, 2015)

Schmidt said:


> and good luck Marcel. Please beat my avg. It is almost embarrassing to be officially faster than you



The balance in the Universe is restored.. 



mark49152 said:


> Some nice PBs there Marcel!



Yes, I did great. Well, not so bad as I usually do. First solve 4X4 I was starting OLL at 1:20. That freaked me out, becasue I had never been that fast and cut off was 1:30. It was the OLL 55. I usually do it on 4x4 in two steps. Now I wanted to do it in one step and messed up badly so that I even had redo some F2L's... Oh man.. resulting in a 2.03. Second solve had double parity and was 1.48. Not bad..

2X2 I did good. PB single and PB average. Doesn't get any better than that. Pyraminx I did keyhole. Unfortunatly out of 5 scrambles I had only 2 a connected edge (so that you only had to find one extra edge). When I have no edge connected I am very slow. Still my average was 0.06 away from my PB.

With Rubiks cube in first round I had my nerves not under controle. Starting off with a 26.. Then I had two 21's that became 23's due to misalignement of U face. So you would think I would watch out in next round for that... LOL in second round I had another 2+. I rushed LL and dropped the cube with a full U misaligment. The times where pretty good because I was less nervous. So I am very pleased with 20.54 average. Oh.. yeah OH 1.03 PB was pretty sweet  I learned the LL algs half an hour before the event..


And just when I thought I beaten our Spannish amigo Raoul. His 22,01 average, he beat my AVG PB by 0.3x and single PB by 0.01.. 


EDIT:



moralsh said:


> 3x3: More work for Marcel, I just bested your single by 0.01 and improved my average to 20.16.



LOL, I did not read your report untill now..


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## muchacho (Sep 27, 2015)

Congratulations all of you for your PBs!

So first Marcel broke this thread 3x3 average record with 20.54 and now the fastest official times in 3x3 are Raúl's 20.16 average and 17.24 single?


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## MarcelP (Sep 27, 2015)

muchacho said:


> Congratulations all of you for your PBs!
> 
> So Marcel broke this thread 3x3 average record with 20.54 and now the fastest official times in 3x3 are Raúl's 20.16 average an 17.24 single?



Mark is faster now  He kept his cool today..


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## muchacho (Sep 27, 2015)

MarcelP said:


> Mark is faster now  He kept his cool today..


Cuthberts Open? Is it that 19.89 average? (is that him?)

A very productive weekend!


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## Schmidt (Sep 27, 2015)

Congrats Marcel :tu ​but all my numbers are orange 

EDIT: And congrats to all the other oldies. Go show dem kiddies how it's done


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## mafergut (Sep 27, 2015)

Congrats to all of you that managed to hold your nerves in competition and did great. As I said before, I would have DNF'd all my solves for sure.

As I didn't have the chance to go to a comp I spent some time at home trying again to record an Ao12. Tried twice but one was a 20.36 and the second one would have been a 19.98, except by the fact that the 11th solve should be a DNF.

Generated By csTimer on 2015-9-27
avg of 12: 19.98

Time List:
18.32, 18.22, (17.94), 18.47, 19.61, 21.36, 21.50, 21.63, (21.92), 21.12, 20.11, 19.46

I was doing just fine up to the 1st five solves (which make an 18.34 Ao5) so I got nervous and started to do 21s. I won't bother you with the full Ao12 so I just edited the first fives solves. Watching that again, even though the times are not that bad, I find my turning style sloppy and choppy compared with the smooth turning of other Ao12s that you guys have uploaded here. So, comments for improvement are welcome.


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## h2f (Sep 27, 2015)

Yes, congratulations to all of you who had a competiotion this weekend. I'm reading all posts about it.


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## moralsh (Sep 27, 2015)

MarcelP said:


> Mark is faster now  He kept his cool today..



But do I keep the single? Haven't checked everyone yet.

Final day Report

Today the focus was on organization as we had a lot of rounds and we had to end early, so it was not a very good day, time wise

4BLD: did an attempt, with good memo (or so I thought) but I noticed on execution that the memo made no sense (a sticker not on a cycle break appeared twice) so I DNFed early
2x2x2: Horrible, 9.something average
4x4x4: As our schedule for today was very tight, we decided to have a 1:20 cutoff on the second round of 4x4x4 (which I needed a 7s official improvement to make it, almost no chance). I messed OLL parity (again) when I noticed I was not going to make it and ended again with double parity.
On the second solve everything went great and I did a 1:13 which I'm very proud of, then a 1:40 double parity, then a carbon copy of the first solve (messed oll Parity) but this time on the way to sub 1:20, so it hurt a bit more. Lastly I ended with a 1:26 OLL parity.

I ended performing 6 OLL parities this round (2 wrongly ) 

3BLD: I did 4 blindsolves today, an 1:29 unofficial to warm up, two official DNFs, and a 2 minute success after being eliminated. The two successes were way faster and with no earmuffs (Arnold classic is a very noisy event), I know what to do next time 

3x3x3: Awful crosses and I left my lookahead at home because it was nowhere to be found, I only glimpsed it on the 18.xx solve 

9 PBs total 10 if you count organizing 10 competitions, all went well and next time it will be harder to improve. 

Congrats to Mark and Marcel for their new PBs!


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## Logiqx (Sep 27, 2015)

Well done guys. Great to see the 3x3 times improving!


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## EvilGnome6 (Sep 28, 2015)

Sunday Single 6x6
Here's me doing a 4:15 6x6. It's about 9 seconds off my PB. Cube used was a MoYu AoShi.


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## MarcelP (Sep 28, 2015)

mafergut said:


> So, comments for improvement are welcome.



You pause litterally between every F2L OLL and PLL. Still your times are pretty good. I see some easy target practice for you only to focus on lookahead.


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## chtiger (Sep 28, 2015)

Got my first 4BLD success yesterday. Time was 23:05.30 (~10:20 memo). Tried another today and also a 5 cube MBLD and they were both very slow and very DNF.


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## MarcelP (Sep 28, 2015)

Schmidt said:


> Congrats Marcel :tu ​but all my numbers are orange



I challenge you to go to a competition now and get all orange 

I just checked my profile and saw that all my OH entries ever are orange.. LOL My worst event..


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## h2f (Sep 28, 2015)

chtiger said:


> Got my first 4BLD success yesterday. Time was 23:05.30 (~10:20 memo). Tried another today and also a 5 cube MBLD and they were both very slow and very DNF.



Nice and congratulations. 

I did 3 tries of small multibld yesterday - all dnf: 3/7, 0/3, 0/2. Last try was late at night and I was too tired.


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## MarcelP (Sep 28, 2015)

EvilGnome6 said:


> Sunday Single 6x6
> Here's me doing a 4:15 6x6. It's about 9 seconds off my PB. Cube used was a MoYu AoShi.



Will watch after work tonight


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## mafergut (Sep 28, 2015)

EvilGnome6 said:


> Sunday Single 6x6
> Here's me doing a 4:15 6x6. It's about 9 seconds off my PB. Cube used was a MoYu AoShi.



Nice piece of solving. It looks like you have your AoShi on pretty tight tensions, am I right?
I don't even have a 6x6 yet. Maybe I'll wait until CB or Yuxin make a great AND cheap 6x6 



MarcelP said:


> You pause litterally between every F2L OLL and PLL. Still your times are pretty good. I see some easy target practice for you only to focus on lookahead.



You are completely right. Thanks a lot for taking the time to watch the video and give me your feedback. I will have to work on lookahead a lot. I don't have any solves better than those on cam so I cannot be sure but when I get 13.xx to 15.xx solves I don't think I'm turning that much faster (maybe a little bit during LL) so it all has to come down to pauses... and getting rid of them. I wish I had caught that 15.xx from Saturday on cam (if I hadn't forgotten to turn it on) just to have something a little bit better to compare to. Maybe it's a good practise to record oneself more frequently while solving, I find it really eye opening when I do it. It might also help with getting used to it and not getting nervous.


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## muchacho (Sep 28, 2015)

Reconstruction of one of my solves, it doesn't look very fast or efficient and includes "some" "small" pauses.






U2 L' D2 B2 U2 B2 L' B2 D2 L F2 U R' F' R' B' U L' U B2 L

z y'
M' F' U' M U2 F' R' U M L U' L' U2' M2' B // FB (15)
R2' U' M R' U' R U' M' R U' R' U' M R' U R U M' U2 R' U R // SB (22)
F U R U' R' F' // 2-look CMLL orient (6)
U2 M' U M' // bad edges (4)
R U2 R' U' R U2 L' U R' U' L // 2-look CMLL permute (11)
U2 M' U2 M' U2 // L-R edges (5)
M2' U M' U2 M U2 M2' (7)
alg.cubing.net

70 STM


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## EvilGnome6 (Sep 28, 2015)

mafergut said:


> Nice piece of solving. It looks like you have your AoShi on pretty tight tensions, am I right?
> I don't even have a 6x6 yet. Maybe I'll wait until CB or Yuxin make a great AND cheap 6x6



The tensions are pretty tight out of necessity. If you've ever had a 6x6 explode on you, you'd understand. All those little spacers...


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## mafergut (Sep 28, 2015)

EvilGnome6 said:


> The tensions are pretty tight out of necessity. If you've ever had a 6x6 explode on you, you'd understand. All those little spacers...



I can imagine. In fact, that famous 6x6 WR attempt explosion video comes to mind easily 
As I said I don't have a 6x6. It takes me long enough to solve a 5x5 that I haven't felt the need to buy a 6x6 (or anything bigger) yet.


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## EvilGnome6 (Sep 28, 2015)

mafergut said:


> As I said I don't have a 6x6. It takes me long enough to solve a 5x5 that I haven't felt the need to buy a 6x6 (or anything bigger) yet.



I think your accurate turning style would lend itself well to big cubes. You need to make those precise, distinct turns because you can't rely on corner cutting to start pushing the next layer before the last one is aligned.


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## Schmidt (Sep 28, 2015)

MarcelP said:


> I challenge you to go to a competition now and get all orange
> 
> I just checked my profile and saw that all my OH entries ever are orange.. LOL My worst event..



Easy! I'll just enter in 5, 6 and OH XD


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## mafergut (Sep 28, 2015)

EvilGnome6 said:


> I think your accurate turning style would lend itself well to big cubes. You need to make those precise, distinct turns because you can't rely on corner cutting to start pushing the next layer before the last one is aligned.



Just for the sake of my curiosity... where did you get the impression that my turning style is accurate? Because if it was from the Ao5 I uploaded yesterday, when watching it myself it feels sloppy and locky most of the time (maybe I'm trying to rush a bit too much).

Anyway, I think it's a good recommendation and I really enjoy practising 4x4 but I've been so focused in 3x3 (that obsession to become sub-20 and now sub-18...) that I have not practiced much big cubes. Now I also bought a CB 5x5 as well (I was not willing to pay for an Ao/Hua Chuang) and I'm learning Yau (for 4x4) but my first times (well over 2 minutes for 4x4) have been a bit discouraging. I guess I need to give it a bit more time for the center and edge pairing techniques to settle so that it all becomes more automatic. I also hate how my OLL recognition and my muscle memory of the algs are thrown off by big cubes to the point where I have to resort at times to 2L OLL.



Schmidt said:


> Easy! I'll just enter in 5, 6 and OH XD



Checking your WCA profile you could also risk trying Feet, FMC, Mega, 3BLD and MBLD, skewb... ;-)


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## EvilGnome6 (Sep 28, 2015)

mafergut said:


> Just for the sake of my curiosity... where did you get the impression that my turning style is accurate?



I think spending a long time using a more blocky cube like the ChiLong results in a turning style that isn't as dependent on corner cutting. I think that's a kind of accuracy that people using bubbly cubes on loose tensions don't develop. 



> I guess I need to give it a bit more time for the center and edge pairing techniques to settle so that it all becomes more automatic. I also hate how my OLL recognition and my muscle memory of the algs are thrown off by big cubes to the point where I have to resort at times to 2L OLL.



Oh, it took me almost 3 months to get sub 2 on 4x4. Center and edge pairing required new spatial reasoning and I'm still learning how to cope with all the exception cases on 3-2-3. I also had to relearn many algorithms because muscle memory no longer worked. It's all frustrating. I do think it can help your 3x3 times if you use the forced slower turning to practice your look ahead skills.


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## MarcelP (Sep 28, 2015)

muchacho said:


> Reconstruction of one of my solves, it doesn't look very fast or efficient and includes "some" "small" pauses.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I think you are doing allright there! FB and SB can be done in way less moves, but that will come in time. 

z' y' 
r2 B R' U2 F' // FB 5 moves instead of 15, very easy and obvious start (for me  ) 

A Typical Roux solve with 2 step CMLL would be around 50 moves I think. Still, 33 secs is awesome. Right now I would not get 33 secs with Roux just like that. It would take some practice again.

And I would have probably made an extra move to preserve the bottom edge of the SB by doing FB like r2 B R' U M2 U F'


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## muchacho (Sep 28, 2015)

Wow, nice FB!

I think it's time for me to start working hard on building the blocks more efficiently and making a better use of inspection time. CMLL will have to wait.


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## h2f (Sep 28, 2015)

Theres block trainer to practice block building. It's nice tool: http://cubegrass.appspot.com/block_trainer/

Edit: 
U2 L' D2 B2 U2 B2 L' B2 D2 L F2 U R' F' R' B' U L' U B2 L

z y' U F' U F' U B2 - my FB in this orientation. Efficient, but not good to fingertrick.

Continutation:
r' U' r2 U2 R U R' U' R U R' M' U' r' U R// sb 16 moves - might be
U L' U R U' L U R' // antiniklas
R U R' U' M' U R U' r'// eo
U M2 U M U2 M

45 STM.


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## MarcelP (Sep 29, 2015)

Schmidt said:


> Easy! I'll just enter in 5, 6 and OH XD



I skipped 5X5 because of very hard cutoff. I think you think too easy of 5x5. DNF's do not become orange  Would you be able to manage a 2:30 cufoff?



h2f said:


> Edit:
> U2 L' D2 B2 U2 B2 L' B2 D2 L F2 U R' F' R' B' U L' U B2 L
> 
> z y' U F' U F' U B2 - my FB in this orientation. Efficient, but not good to fingertrick.
> ...



Nice!!


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## h2f (Sep 29, 2015)

Thanks.

I've seen muchacho, you've put it in the roux example thread. This is a good place to talk about solutions. I'm sure your move count will lower soon.


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## muchacho (Sep 29, 2015)

h2f said:


> Theres block trainer to practice block building. It's nice tool: http://cubegrass.appspot.com/block_trainer/
> 
> Edit:
> U2 L' D2 B2 U2 B2 L' B2 D2 L F2 U R' F' R' B' U L' U B2 L
> ...



Nice solution! both of you should keep practicing Roux!


Also this tool looks nice: http://laire.fi/jarcs/
But they are both too efficient, there is no way I could ever come up with the blocks they build, I'm not sure if I can learn much from there.


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## h2f (Sep 29, 2015)

muchacho said:


> Nice solution! both of you should keep practicing Roux!
> 
> 
> Also this tool looks nice: http://laire.fi/jarcs/
> But they are both too efficient, there is no way I could ever come up with the blocks they build, I'm not sure if I can learn much from there.



Thanks. I didnt stop to practice it and do more practice after Nats.  But at the moment my CFOP solves are much better. I didn't know the tool you linked. Looks good. I did about 100 solves on the tool I linked, setting it to 4 or 5 moves, and then during practice I was focused on building square 2x2x1 during preinspection. Sometimes I could plan all FB but efficency comes during practice. I'm sure you will get better very soon. 

I also often start roux in FMC to see if there's easy pair/square/block etc.


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## MarcelP (Sep 30, 2015)

I started to record Ao50 averages after Mark showed his progress. My progress seem to have stopped just under 20 secs.. LOL


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## mark49152 (Sep 30, 2015)

MarcelP said:


> View attachment 5523
> 
> I started to record Ao50 averages after Mark showed his progress. My progress seem to have stopped just under 20 secs.. LOL


Yes that's what mine looks like too . If I draw an exponential trend line, the best fit is one that converges on 15 seconds, but of course it would take me infinite time to get there 

My conclusion is that solving over and over as I have been for the last year or so, is no longer good enough practice. I need to change my style and solve more like Mike . So I'm going back to targeted practice. Noah's mountain analogy has some truth to it in my opinion.

Also I'm going to start cross practice again, as in competition it makes a huge difference whether a solve starts well. Poor start means more tension which means the solve falls apart.


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## Logiqx (Sep 30, 2015)

mark49152 said:


> I'm going to start cross practice again, as in competition it makes a huge difference whether a solve starts well. Poor start means more tension which means the solve falls apart.



Yes. The start makes a huge difference at any time. I often get 16's which feel slow and relaxed when the start is good. A good start sets up for a smooth solve where it feels like I don't stop turning. 

I did a couple of big sessions today and had a couple of 13 singles (13.34 and 13.22)... my first 13's since June! The 13.22 was full-step but had a couple of pre-made F2L pairs, easy OLL and H-perm. As usual, I can't reconstruct as I see more options during the reconstruction attempt!

In other news, I've finished teaching my other half to solve the cube! If I scramble it, hand it over and walk away she now solves it without notes. 

One of the guys that I taught at work also told me today that he has taught his sister in law. Apparently she'd tried before with videos on YouTube and someone had also tried teaching her in person but wasn't successful. I'm pretty chuffed that someone I've taught has gone on to teach another person to solve the cube.


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## mark49152 (Sep 30, 2015)

Logiqx said:


> Yes. The start makes a huge difference at any time. I often get 16's which feel slow and relaxed when the start is good. A good start sets up for a smooth solve where it feels like I don't stop turning.


As an experiment, I tried an ao50 starting from cross solved, inspecting for first pair. The result... 15.21, around 3 seconds less than I'd expect for full solves. I'd actually estimate the difference as 4 seconds as I was using a crappy cube, the only one I had to hand. I've timed cross and cross+1 before (my cross is about 1.8) but this is the first time I've timed solves without cross.

This gives me optimism that by really working on cross+1, I could shave as much as 1-2 seconds off.

Congrats on the teaching successes


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## Jason Green (Oct 1, 2015)

Logiqx said:


> In other news, I've finished teaching my other half to solve the cube! If I scramble it, hand it over and walk away she now solves it without notes.
> 
> One of the guys that I taught at work also told me today that he has taught his sister in law. Apparently she'd tried before with videos on YouTube and someone had also tried teaching her in person but wasn't successful. I'm pretty chuffed that someone I've taught has gone on to teach another person to solve the cube.



That's cool, I love trying to get people into it! My sister is doing solves now, I'm not sure if she's 100% memorized but she did one in under 2 minutes. Several guys at work have been interested, so far only one I know is actually learning. 

BTW, I had a new PB earlier, 23.66. That felt good it had been a while since I had one!


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## MarcelP (Oct 1, 2015)

mark49152 said:


> Also I'm going to start cross practice again, as in competition it makes a huge difference whether a solve starts well. Poor start means more tension which means the solve falls apart.


That is so true! That is why I did stick with CN solving. More easy crosses.. And.. CN practise helps lookahead. I do still cross training on regular basis.


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## mark49152 (Oct 1, 2015)

MarcelP said:


> That is so true! That is why I did stick with CN solving. More easy crosses.. And.. CN practise helps lookahead. I do still cross training on regular basis.


Yes I remember the discussion. I just don't have the patience to switch. I also don't believe I would ever be truly CN, as different colours do have different significance for me - natural top/bottom, left/right, etc. - including for bigger cubes, and BLD orientation, etc. So I'll always favour certain orientations.

My thinking is that cross should never take more than 8 moves and with enough practice I should be able to see an optimal and/or ergonomic solution to single colour cross every time, and be able to use that execution time to look ahead into first pair. I know I'll miss some easy crosses on other colours, but provided I'm getting consistent and calm <2 second crosses with no pause going into first pair, within 15 seconds inspection, I'm OK with that.

Actually that's another thing I should practise more - strict inspection. At home I rarely time it, and although I probably take only 4-5 seconds on the vast majority of solves, under competition pressure I have found it sometimes hard to be ready within 15 seconds.


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## mafergut (Oct 1, 2015)

MarcelP said:


> View attachment 5523
> 
> I started to record Ao50 averages after Mark showed his progress. My progress seem to have stopped just under 20 secs.. LOL



Exactly the same here. I am stuck at right under 20 seconds. Ranging from (great and rare) high 18.xx to (bad) low 20.xx Ao50s. Also, it's been a long time since I last got a 13.xx to low 14.xx full-step solve. The most recent being a 14.39 from almost a month ago! This weekend I will follow some advice I got from you: focus on lookahead (and turn a bit more slowly during F2L) and see if that works.


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## MarcelP (Oct 1, 2015)

mark49152 said:


> I also don't believe I would ever be truly CN, as different colours do have different significance for me - natural top/bottom, left/right, etc. - including for bigger cubes, and BLD orientation, etc. So I'll always favour certain orientations.



Yes, but I did not say you should switch. Just practicing CN could make your normal color (White cross?) faster. All my untimed solves I do on RED/GREEN/BLUE/ORANGE. Timed solves I mostly do on white/yellow. Only when WHITE and YELLOW suck I look for next color. 

I know what you mean about the strickt inspection time. My second or third competition I had all hard crosses and I could not find complete solutions on all solves in 15 secs. That's when I started to use inspection on my timer. Now on competition I put my hands down at about 8 - 10 seconds and know full cross plan.


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## h2f (Oct 1, 2015)

Talking about CN - when I start pratcing and solving on yellow it allowed drop down my times down. It really helps. I'm not sub20 but I've started to have a lot of sub-20 solves, and my ao5 is 19.14 at the moment.


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## Logiqx (Oct 1, 2015)

MarcelP said:


> I have not practiced OH and I need to be able to do LL OH on my competition this weekend. I have forgotten all LL algs.. I might have to cancel that event.



I'm trying to get back into OH and managed to capture a 31.99 Ao5 on film today. I'm still about a second off my best but it's the fastest I have on film.


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## mark49152 (Oct 1, 2015)

MarcelP said:


> Yes, but I did not say you should switch. Just practicing CN could make your normal color (White cross?) faster. All my untimed solves I do on RED/GREEN/BLUE/ORANGE. Timed solves I mostly do on white/yellow. Only when WHITE and YELLOW suck I look for next color.


OK, so you're saying that practising different colour crosses helps improve look ahead on white cross solves? I wonder how that works?


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## Jason Green (Oct 1, 2015)

mark49152 said:


> OK, so you're saying that practising different colour crosses helps improve look ahead on white cross solves? I wonder how that works?


Maybe it's like baseball players swinging with a weight on the bat in the warmup time.


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## Logiqx (Oct 1, 2015)

mark49152 said:


> I need to change my style and solve more like Mike



It's been a little while since I filmed myself practicing 3x3.

Here's a 17.53 Ao5 from earlier today and ending with a couple of 16's.


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## moralsh (Oct 1, 2015)

I have another comp 1 and a half week away and as improving my 3x3x3 times is going to be quite hard i've decided to give 5x5x5 a go, the problem is that the cutoff for nationals is 2:30 and I've never even got close to that.

Practicing today I've droped my Ao5 like 12 seconds after 15 solves, it now stands at 2:57. What do you guys think Do I have any chance of making the cutoff?


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## mark49152 (Oct 1, 2015)

Jason Green said:


> Maybe it's like baseball players swinging with a weight on the bat in the warmup time.


That analogy would better fit something like doing 3x3 on 4x4. If it worked for Marcel, great, but I'm curious why it would work. I'd have to get used to spotting different colours and ignore the ones I'm used to spotting, right? I can imagine that would take a lot of concentration. Maybe that's exactly how it helps. I'll try an average later and see how it goes.



moralsh said:


> Practicing today I've droped my (5x5) Ao5 like 12 seconds after 15 solves, it now stands at 2:57. What do you guys think Do I have any chance of making the cutoff?


Is that a hard cut or average cut? I'm at a similar level, and average cut at UK comps is 2:30. I entered just to get a single result and enjoyed doing so, but I don't think I'd bother if the hard cut were 2:30. That's the reason I don't do 6x6+. 

I've done a fair amount of 5x5 practice and am finding it hard to progress down to 2:30. According to Mike's analysis it's equivalent to 1:15 on 4x4 or 15 seconds 3x3. I did some analysis of 5x5 splits which I will share when I get home.


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## moralsh (Oct 1, 2015)

Fortunately is an average cut, I just need a single good enough  

About Your equivalences, my 4x4 single is better that 1:15 and my 3x3 one isn't. guess I'll have to practice to see how this turns out, and yes please, share that analysis


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## Logiqx (Oct 1, 2015)

moralsh said:


> About Your equivalences, my 4x4 single is better that 1:15 and my 3x3 one isn't.



The analysis used competition averages so you'd be better off comparing your global averages, rather than singles.


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## moralsh (Oct 1, 2015)

Logiqx said:


> The analysis used competition averages so you'd be better off comparing your global averages, rather than singles.



Then I am definitely doomed 

But I will try


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## mafergut (Oct 1, 2015)

Logiqx said:


> I'm trying to get back into OH and managed to capture a 31.99 Ao5 on film today. I'm still about a second off my best but it's the fastest I have on film.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qEdgvp8qC1U



Impressive how you can get a low 16 while seemingly turning so slowly during F2L. You have great lookahead but also your LL is quite fast.


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## mark49152 (Oct 1, 2015)

Logiqx said:


> Here's a 17.53 Ao5 from earlier today and ending with a couple of 16's.


Yeah impressive how the times are good despite the solves looking slow - I noticed more pauses than in your earlier video too. Your cross looks pretty fast, have you timed it alone?



moralsh said:


> Fortunately is an average cut, I just need a single good enough


It's still nice to have a single result, even if you only get a couple of attempts and no average. I'm pleased with my official 3x3 and 4x4 results now and am making 5x5 my focus event for UK Champs next month (along with BLD). So I'm using these splits to work out a specific practice plan and goals. If after two weeks I haven't cut my average to ~2:40, I may well change that plan .



moralsh said:


> ...yes please, share that analysis


I included all the 5x5 solves on cubesolve.es that have time splits data (18 solves). Most of these were Feliks, sub-1, and pure reduction. The average splits were:-
- F4C 27.0%
- L2C 4.3%
- F8E 32.1%
- L4E 14.1%
- 3x3 22.5%

What method do you use?


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## moralsh (Oct 1, 2015)

I use reduction and by those splits I need a lot of work on my centres and a little on everything else, I'll try to film me tomorrow to check if my splits are really what I think they are.

Thanks!


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## Logiqx (Oct 1, 2015)

mark49152 said:


> Yeah impressive how the times are good despite the solves looking slow - I noticed more pauses than in your earlier video too. Your cross looks pretty fast, have you timed it alone?
> 
> It's still nice to have a single result, even if you only get a couple of attempts and no average. I'm pleased with my official 3x3 and 4x4 results now and am making 5x5 my focus event for UK Champs next month (along with BLD).



I've never timed my cross alone and yes, I was pausing more than usual in the video. I was also doing unnecessary AUFs on several occasions... U U' for example. I think the camera was affecting me slightly. Definitely plenty of room for improvement!

My 3x3 result was ok at ABHC but I'd like to do better next time. My OH was by far my worst result and I definitely want to do better! Lack of 3x3 and OH practice in the lead up to ABHC seemed to bite me. I kind of knew I was in trouble when I did some solves the night before and was averaging much slower than normal.


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## mark49152 (Oct 1, 2015)

Logiqx said:


> My 3x3 result was ok at ABHC but I'd like to do better next time. My OH was by far my worst result and I definitely want to do better! Lack of 3x3 and OH practice in the lead up to ABHC seemed to bite me. I kind of knew I was in trouble when I did some solves the night before and was averaging much slower than normal.


Your performances were very consistent and composed for a first comp, especially your 2x2 . What are you focusing on for UKC, apart from OH?

My 3x3 averages at home are around 1.5-2 seconds better than my comp average, so to break my comp average I feel like I need better composure rather than faster times at home, which is why I'm going back to cross practice and not worrying about the rest. I decided to focus on 5x5 because out of all the non-BLD events that's the one that feels like I have most room for short-term improvement through practice alone. Making average cut is a nice goal and should not be insanely out of reach (my PB single is 2:33).


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## MarcelP (Oct 2, 2015)

mark49152 said:


> OK, so you're saying that practising different colour crosses helps improve look ahead on white cross solves? I wonder how that works?



It's easy. When I was solving only white cross, when I was looking for pairs, I could recognise an edge because it did not contain white/yellow, So in the F2L process I could find and edge and an corner. Or find a corner and then look for edge. When you start CN, that does not work.. LOL So lets say you want to solve orange cross, do you recognise a green/yellow edge as part of your F2L? NO. Your brain does not know 6 color schemes. So when solving CN and you start on orange, so must look for orange corners and then find corresponding edge. Before I started CN I had no Lookahead. But by practising CN I developed a system of finding pairs by corner first and edge next. This does wonders to your normal cross color. After a CN session your white cross solves feel like a breeze and will go faster. I promise you. It's a bit like solving in bad light for an hour, and then go solving in bright daylight. 



Logiqx said:


> It's been a little while since I filmed myself practicing 3x3.
> 
> Here's a 17.53 Ao5 from earlier today and ending with a couple of 16's.



Awesome. I love watching your video's. Textbook slow solving right there, I noticed that your OLL and PLL are very smooth. You seem to have fingertricks for even all OLL's. Very cool. The 16s are sweet. I notice that I get many 13 and 14's lately.


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## h2f (Oct 3, 2015)

I've realized that my weakest point in solving is my cross+1. My f2l, oll and pll are decent but cross+1 is painfull. I can plan whole cross in preinspection, but i execute it too slow and finding first pair takes me sometimes few seconds. I was trying to do blind crosses, tracking first pair, doing slow solves etc. My ability of doing cr+1 has improved a little. Any suggestions or shall I drill blind crosses till I'm decent?


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## Isaac Lai (Oct 3, 2015)

h2f said:


> I've realized that my weakest point in solving is my cross+1. My f2l, oll and pll are decent but cross+1 is painfull. I can plan whole cross in preinspection, but i execute it too slow and finding first pair takes me sometimes few seconds. I was trying to do blind crosses, tracking first pair, doing slow solves etc. My ability of doing cr+1 has improved a little. Any suggestions or shall I drill blind crosses till I'm decent?



You might want to try tracking a corner first. After that, you could also try tracking your first pair.


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## mark49152 (Oct 3, 2015)

h2f said:


> I've realized that my weakest point in solving is my cross+1. My f2l, oll and pll are decent but cross+1 is painfull. I can plan whole cross in preinspection, but i execute it too slow and finding first pair takes me sometimes few seconds. I was trying to do blind crosses, tracking first pair, doing slow solves etc. My ability of doing cr+1 has improved a little. Any suggestions or shall I drill blind crosses till I'm decent?


Blind cross practice definitely helped me. Like you, cross+1 is still the weakest part of my solve, but being able to solve cross without watching it so I can look around the cube for pairs is a fundamental step forward.


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## h2f (Oct 3, 2015)

I see. I don't like this kind of practice but of course I start to practice it. Shall I do moves as soon as I can or slowly? I mean shall I plan the cross and do moves without thiknking or imagine the cube and apply the moves? I think the first way is better.


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## mark49152 (Oct 3, 2015)

h2f said:


> I see. I don't like this kind of practice but of course I start to practice it. Shall I do moves as soon as I can or slowly? I mean shall I plan the cross and do moves without thiknking or imagine the cube and apply the moves? I think the first way is better.


Yes I agree, but the second way is a stepping stone to that if it seems difficult at first.


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## h2f (Oct 3, 2015)

Ok. Thanks Mark and Isaac.


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## mark49152 (Oct 3, 2015)

MarcelP said:


> Before I started CN I had no Lookahead. But by practising CN I developed a system of finding pairs by corner first and edge next.


First attempt at a CN ao12 - 34.55 with best 29.53. I went for any cross except white or yellow. Cross, OLL and PLL were all pretty easy, only F2L was hard. I found myself doing what you said, systematically finding a corner then an edge. I had to do it that way because I was picking out my cross colour first. I wasn't doing any of it by looking ahead though, it was all pause-and-search. I'm still not sure it's the same skill as look ahead, as in regular solves (when look ahead is working! ) I don't search systematically but just "see" the pairs emerge as the cube is moving. But it was fun anyway and I might do it again.


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## moralsh (Oct 3, 2015)

I remember when Marcel started training CN I was way faster than him, but he improved and I didn't. I don't think I ever had any good look ahead when solving CN but I think I have some kind of ability looking for pieces, as I'm sure I search for both corner and edge, Maybe I should try focusing on searching corner first like you do and see how that turns out. I just did an Ao12 and it was 26.7 with a 23.something, but I usually get sub 25 when doing some more solves.

On 5x5x5 practice I think I've found a wall, five sub 2:54 but sup 2:50 today, I'll be happy next week with a sub 3, getting 2:30 doesn't seem likely at all.


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## Logiqx (Oct 3, 2015)

MarcelP said:


> Awesome. I love watching your video's. Textbook slow solving right there, I noticed that your OLL and PLL are very smooth. You seem to have finger tricks for even all OLL's. Very cool. The 16s are sweet. I notice that I get many 13 and 14's lately.



Cheers Marcel. Yes, I have finger tricks for all of my OLLs. There's a few which I would like to tweak but in the main, I'm quite happy with my repertoire.

It's good to hear you're getting many 13's and 14's. I don't really bat an eyelid at my 15's and 16's now but anything faster is still quite rare.



mark49152 said:


> Your performances were very consistent and composed for a first comp, especially your 2x2 . What are you focusing on for UKC, apart from OH?



Well, I want to improve at 3x3 and OH but I also plan to make my 5x5 debut just to register a couple of singles.

It feels like I'm be entering one of those "busy periods" that life throws at us oldies so I may not have much time in the lead up to the event. I'll try to make time for practice but I've only been picking up a cube every couple of days recently.


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## Logiqx (Oct 3, 2015)

moralsh said:


> On 5x5x5 practice I think I've found a wall, five sub 2:54 but sup 2:50 today, I'll be happy next week with a sub 3, getting 2:30 doesn't seem likely at all.



Perhaps Faz can offer a little inspiration... yet more WRs this weekend. It's insane how he still seems to be improving even at his level!


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## MarcelP (Oct 3, 2015)

Whoohoo.. broke my Ao5 PB.. *15.58*

17. 16.58 B U2 L2 D' B2 U2 B2 F2 R2 F2 D2 F D F2 U R' U F' R2 
18. 16.78 U2 B' L2 D2 B D2 B L2 R2 F L' U' R2 F2 R2 B D' U' L R 
19. 15.57 B' L2 B' U2 L2 U2 L2 B F R' F' L D2 U' L' U' B F2 U2 
20. 15.84 U' R L2 D F U2 R' F R2 L F2 L D2 L2 U2 R' B2 U2 D2 B 
21. 15.06 B' L' F R L' D' F' D' R U2 B' D2 F L2 F2 R2 F' D2 L2 
22. 15.33 L2 F2 D U2 L2 F2 D B2 R2 B2 D2 R' D' B U2 B2 D' F' D' R2

I wish I had more time to continue this session.. Unfortunatly family matter come first now.. I can not even updat signature.  (Btw, these 22 solve mean average is 18.68... meaning I am on fire..)


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## Jason Green (Oct 3, 2015)

MarcelP said:


> Whoohoo.. broke my Ao5 PB.. *15.58*
> 
> 17. 16.58 B U2 L2 D' B2 U2 B2 F2 R2 F2 D2 F D F2 U R' U F' R2
> 18. 16.78 U2 B' L2 D2 B D2 B L2 R2 F L' U' R2 F2 R2 B D' U' L R
> ...


Nice, PB are the best!  That's maybe there only downside to improving, it's harder to get your next PB.


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## MarcelP (Oct 3, 2015)

Jason Green said:


> Nice, PB are the best!  That's maybe there only downside to improving, it's harder to get your next PB.



Yeah, but when you break PB's it is a clear sign of improvement


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## mafergut (Oct 3, 2015)

MarcelP said:


> Whoohoo.. broke my Ao5 PB.. *15.58*
> 
> 17. 16.58 B U2 L2 D' B2 U2 B2 F2 R2 F2 D2 F D F2 U R' U F' R2
> 18. 16.78 U2 B' L2 D2 B D2 B L2 R2 F L' U' R2 F2 R2 B D' U' L R
> ...



You beat my PB Ao5 by almost half a second now! Congratulations!
The not so good part of seeing others improve is that I'm *not *improving at all lately. It looks more like I'm getting worse.

I also have decided to forget about recording solves. I did 50 solves with camera on: Ao50 = 21.26. I did another 50 solves without camera: Ao50 = 19.92, not very good for me but the difference speaks for itself. I tried another one with camera and I was around 21.95 Avg. when I abandoned.

Also the best time of all these solves was a 15.83 and only 3 16.xx in the whole "without-camera" Ao50 so very bad times. A month ago I would get like 12-15 sub-17s (from which usually 4-5 sub-16s) in an Ao100.


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## h2f (Oct 3, 2015)

MarcelP said:


> Whoohoo.. broke my Ao5 PB.. *15.58*
> 
> 17. 16.58 B U2 L2 D' B2 U2 B2 F2 R2 F2 D2 F D F2 U R' U F' R2
> 18. 16.78 U2 B' L2 D2 B D2 B L2 R2 F L' U' R2 F2 R2 B D' U' L R
> ...



Whoa! Nice. 

On the other hand last week I've broken few times my pb but now it's only 19.14.


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## moralsh (Oct 3, 2015)

mafergut said:


> You beat my PB Ao5 by almost half a second now! Congratulations!



and mine by more than 2 seconds  

Wow Marecel, where is your limit?

mafergut, I often get the feeling that I'm not improving and I can be 2 or 3 months without breaking any of my 3x3x3 PBs (mostly because I usually don't do big averages) but every time I check times from 6 months ago or a year ago, I'm faster by a visible margin so I have stopped worrying about PBs. And if you really feel bad about your lack of improvement just switch to another category and get back later (peacking of witch I finally broke the 2:50 barrier on 5x5, next stop 2:45)


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## Logiqx (Oct 3, 2015)

mark49152 said:


> First attempt at a CN ao12 - 34.55 with best 29.53. I went for any cross except white or yellow. Cross, OLL and PLL were all pretty easy, only F2L was hard. I found myself doing what you said, systematically finding a corner then an edge. I had to do it that way because I was picking out my cross colour first. I wasn't doing any of it by looking ahead though, it was all pause-and-search. I'm still not sure it's the same skill as look ahead, as in regular solves (when look ahead is working! ) I don't search systematically but just "see" the pairs emerge as the cube is moving. But it was fun anyway and I might do it again.



I'm pretty sure that I also have corner bias in spotting pairs. I know which edges do not contain my cross colour/top colour but I prefer to track/spot corners first. Doing anything other than white/yellow does have a tendency to make me turn slowly and look ahead.

80-90% of my solves are probably a white/yellow cross but my fastest official solve was a green cross... https://youtu.be/nCcG3J954sE?t=163

I'm only CN for Pyra, 2x2 and CFOP on 3x3. I stick to white/yellow for methods with EO steps (Petrus, Roux, ZZ). I very occasionally do yellow cross when doing Yau on 4x4 but on the 5x5 I do white cross. Oh yes... and zero inspection solves on 3x3, I do white cross.



MarcelP said:


> Whoohoo.. broke my Ao5 PB.. *15.58*



Nice, congrats!


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## MarcelP (Oct 3, 2015)

mafergut said:


> The not so good part of seeing others improve is that I'm *not *improving at all lately. It looks more like I'm getting worse.



Don't worry, it will get better again.  We all experience bad times after good times.



h2f said:


> Whoa! Nice.
> 
> On the other hand last week I've broken few times my pb but now it's only 19.14.



Yes, but you are improving allright. Not so very long ago you where sup 30.. 



moralsh said:


> and mine by more than 2 seconds
> 
> Wow Marecel, where is your limit?



I do not know, but it will not be a whole lot faster.


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## mark49152 (Oct 3, 2015)

MarcelP said:


> Whoohoo.. broke my Ao5 PB.. *15.58*


Awesome, nice one Marcel . That's a really consistent run of fast times. I don't think I've ever done six 15/16s in a row. There's always a crappy one in there.



Logiqx said:


> I'm pretty sure that I also have corner bias in spotting pairs.


Yeah I have read about corner bias before, and to be honest, I don't know what I do. I still feel like I just "see" the pair, as a pattern rather than one piece before the other. The exception would be where one or both pieces are in a slot, in which case I would see one first and search for the other, but of course it could be either corner or edge. There's a bit of Heisenberg in it - as soon as I try to think about how I'm doing it, I do it differently, so I'll never know 



moralsh said:


> On 5x5x5 practice I think I've found a wall, five sub 2:54 but sup 2:50 today, I'll be happy next week with a sub 3, getting 2:30 doesn't seem likely at all ...... I finally broke the 2:50 barrier on 5x5, next stop 2:45





Logiqx said:


> I also plan to make my 5x5 debut just to register a couple of singles.


Great to see some interest in 5x5. A couple of days ago I had my first sub-2:30 so my dreams of making the cut and getting an average are still alive!  It was 2:26, I've had a couple of other 2.3x solves too, and several 2.4x's. Generally though, I'm finding it very hard to improve my averages and I'd need a lot of luck and great form on the day to make cut at UKC.

Here's something really cool. I was thinking tonight about my 4BLD fail at Cuthberts' a week ago, and how a lot of the memo was still in my head. So I got the competition scramble, and without inspecting the cube, except to check the scramble and make sure I had the right orientation, I tried to solve it blindfold again relying on memory from the comp. Holy crap! Success! Can you believe that! And I even fixed the mistake (missing K) that failed me in the comp. It's amazing how effective letter pairs and images are at sticking in your head. I often find myself driving to the office and thinking about nuns with guns in the bathroom or something and chuckling how I remember that solve


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## MarcelP (Oct 4, 2015)

mark49152 said:


> I often find myself driving to the office and thinking about nuns with guns in the bathroom or something and chuckling how I remember that solve


LOL.. those are pretty vivid images.


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## h2f (Oct 4, 2015)

MarcelP said:


> Yes, but you are improving allright. Not so very long ago you where sup 30..



Slowly, slowly....


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## mafergut (Oct 4, 2015)

moralsh said:


> mafergut, I often get the feeling that I'm not improving and I can be 2 or 3 months without breaking any of my 3x3x3 PBs (mostly because I usually don't do big averages) but every time I check times from 6 months ago or a year ago, I'm faster by a visible margin so I have stopped worrying about PBs. And if you really feel bad about your lack of improvement just switch to another category and get back later (peacking of witch I finally broke the 2:50 barrier on 5x5, next stop 2:45)



Yeah, I have suffered plateaus before but this is more like a step back and then a plateau. I am already following your advice and stop focusing that much on 3x3 and try other events, where I have a lot of room for improvement. I am terribly bad at big cubes so some weeks ago I learned Yau and I'm going to do some 4x4 solves today. Let's see if I can get sub-2 in a month or so (yes, I'm that bad at 4x4).

EDIT: Wow. I had never done more than 3 or 4 solves of 4x4 in a row. No more than 20-30 in total but I didn't know I was THAT bad:

Generated By csTimer on 2015-10-4
avg of 12: 3:21.13

Time List:
3:35.58, (2:41.42), 3:21.23, 3:30.92, 2:59.13, 4:10.75, (4:33.64), 2:54.45, 3:20.12, 3:22.51, 2:57.18, 3:19.41

The worst thing of this Ao12 is that the 2:41.42 is actually my PB single


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## EvilGnome6 (Oct 4, 2015)

mafergut said:


> I am terribly bad at big cubes so some weeks ago I learned Yau and I'm going to do some 4x4 solves today. Let's see if I can get sub-2 in a month or so (yes, I'm that bad at 4x4).



One thing you can practice while you're doing the 3x3 stage on big cubes is look ahead. The big cubes already reduce your turning speed so you don't have to focus on turning slower and it's easier to reduce the pauses.


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## mafergut (Oct 4, 2015)

Yes, you are right, I will definitely get the time with 4x4 to practice that.

It was going to be EDIT2 in my original post but, right after that Ao12 and even though I almost spoil it trying to do a 1L OLL (of the ones I still don't have well re-muscle-memorized on big cubes) and having PLL parity after that... solve 13 was a new PB 

13. 2:24.20 Rw2 Uw2 F U' R' Fw' F2 R Uw2 R2 L2 B' Rw' U Fw F' Uw2 Fw' L U' L D2 B2 F' R2 Fw Uw2 Fw2 Uw2 B2 R' Uw B' Fw F' Rw Fw' U2 D L2

Now I only have to shave off 30 more secs to get to my sub-2 target in the next month. I think I can manage to do that. Having a clear objective will help me focus on that and forget about my 3x3 frustration. Do you think it's feasible? Not sure about 4x4 PBs for people more or less my speed at 3x3 that actually have practiced big cubes.

Of course I mean sub-2 average, as I assume that a lucky single is just a matter of time (without the OLL mishap and the PLL parity this would have been already close to 2 minutes).


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## EvilGnome6 (Oct 5, 2015)

Sunday Single 7x7 in 7:42. Not a great solve for me but such is life sometimes.


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## bubbagrub (Oct 5, 2015)

Hello fellow older-folk,

I've started learning 4BLD, so I thought I'd post on here. I've decided (even though I'm sure everyone will tell me it's a bad idea) to go with an OP-style method I found here, at least for centres. I started reading about it on a plane trip today, and by the end of the flight I could pretty reliably do the memo (centres only, so far). The execution I was still making way too many mistakes on. 

I still use OP for 3BLD and am much more interested in just getting some successes than being fast.


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## h2f (Oct 5, 2015)

bubbagrub said:


> Hello fellow older-folk,
> 
> I've started learning 4BLD, so I thought I'd post on here. I've decided (even though I'm sure everyone will tell me it's a bad idea) to go with an OP-style method I found here, at least for centres. I started reading about it on a plane trip today, and by the end of the flight I could pretty reliably do the memo (centres only, so far). The execution I was still making way too many mistakes on.
> 
> I still use OP for 3BLD and am much more interested in just getting some successes than being fast.



I'm a medium advanced blinder and I do not recommend this method. It seems easy, but you need around 900 moves to solve the cube. The other easy method is U2 (centers)/r2(wings)/OP (corners) and with that combination you need a half of it to solve the cube. In blind events one wrong move casuses dnf of the solve. I know 2 speedcubers who did official solve with the method you mentioned. U2 for centers is much better - you need 3 or 4 moves for setup and only 1 move for switching pieces - it looks better than 14 moves fat Tperm. In U2 you have to learn only 3 extra alg for special cases (1 for bottom and 2 for top). It's not hard. The same situation is with wings, which you can solve with r2 and the r2 is R2 from 3bld.

If you dont know learn r2 (R2), you can solve wings with alg from the tutorial you mentioned, but U2 for centers is much better than fat Tperm. 

This is only my opinion but I think U2/r2/OP is easier although you have to learn few more algs. Feel free about it.


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## bubbagrub (Oct 5, 2015)

OK -- I should read up on U2/r2... Thanks!


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## h2f (Oct 5, 2015)

bubbagrub said:


> OK -- I should read up on U2/r2... Thanks!




I've learned from Noah Arturs' tutorial. 

Here is about memorization: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LtuYHE2H3ig&index=24&list=PLJ1BFt1hZm2pocY5NpX-Kc5JABQ_jsaSh. 

And here is about U2 and r2:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lcfpxhfA5jQ&index=25&list=PLJ1BFt1hZm2pocY5NpX-Kc5JABQ_jsaSh


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## Tim Major (Oct 5, 2015)

bubbagrub said:


> Hello fellow older-folk,
> 
> I've started learning 4BLD, so I thought I'd post on here. I've decided (even though I'm sure everyone will tell me it's a bad idea) to go with an OP-style method I found here, at least for centres. I started reading about it on a plane trip today, and by the end of the flight I could pretty reliably do the memo (centres only, so far). The execution I was still making way too many mistakes on.
> 
> I still use OP for 3BLD and am much more interested in just getting some successes than being fast.



I had all my 4bld successes with that method,


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## mark49152 (Oct 5, 2015)

bubbagrub said:


> I've started learning 4BLD, so I thought I'd post on here.


Hi Ben, welcome to the 4BLD beginners' club! I guess we'll both be going for our first comp success at UKC? I tried my first attempt at Cuthbert's and frustratingly was off by just one piece.

I do agree with h2f that U2/r2 is the way to go as there are far fewer moves to screw up. There's a debate about M2 versus OP for 3BLD edges a few pages back in this thread, where a lot has already been said. Personally I didn't find M2 difficult. It just has a couple of tricky bits that must be learned and remembered, but it's not difficult once you get your head round those. Once you know M2 for 3BLD, r2 for 4BLD is almost exactly the same (r2 is nothing like R2). I guess learning r2 before M2 would work too. Then U2 for centres follows a very similar principle, although of course the swap and setups are different.

Whichever way you go, good luck and see you at UKC!


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## mafergut (Oct 5, 2015)

EvilGnome6 said:


> Sunday Single 7x7 in 7:42. Not a great solve for me but such is life sometimes.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tJi4WlMTafA



Well, maybe it's not a very good solve for you but I found it quite interesting. Except for one or two lockups while starting to do the edges it was a nice solve. I feared the cube was going to pop at one time  At least here I can see how the solve is progressing (when I see a vid of Feliks or Kevin solving a 7x7 I just see turn, turn, turn... solved!). Do you use Yau on 7x7? Somebody told me that except for 4x4, reduction was faster on bigger cubes (5, 6 & 7x7). I think it was TDM or one of the other young guys here.

By the way, is that a SS 7x7? I'm not buying a 6x6 and 7x7 yet but it didn't turn bad at all and it didn't look like the new cubic Aofu.


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## moralsh (Oct 5, 2015)

mafergut said:


> By the way, is that a SS 7x7? I'm not buying a 6x6 and 7x7 yet but it didn't turn bad at all and it didn't look like the new cubic Aofu.



Looks like a shengshou Mini which is an amazing 7x7 once broken in, I had times 1 minute better than with the standard shengshou. I have start practicing again 7x7 to check if the practice on 5x5 is noticeable. (2:35 PB now, getting closer to the cut off)

About 4BLD, please, everybody, learn center comms, they are easy and the sooner you start with them, the sooner you'll get fast executing them, every time yo do a U or a D target with U2, a kitten dies somewhere.


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## mark49152 (Oct 5, 2015)

moralsh said:


> every time yo do a U or a D target with U2, a kitten dies somewhere.


LOL, well yes, U and D targets are annoying, but the algs have easy patterns to remember. I have started learning comms for corners and will get to centres eventually, but it's a different way of thinking to solve two pieces at a time, and I think I'll probably stick with U2 until I've had an official success.


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## mafergut (Oct 5, 2015)

moralsh said:


> Looks like a shengshou Mini which is an amazing 7x7 once broken in, I had times 1 minute better than with the standard shengshou. I have start practicing again 7x7 to check if the practice on 5x5 is noticeable. (2:35 PB now, getting closer to the cut off)
> 
> About 4BLD, please, everybody, learn center comms, they are easy and the sooner you start with them, the sooner you'll get fast executing them, every time yo do a U or a D target with U2, a kitten dies somewhere.



Yeah, I was about to edit my post and add that it looked like a *mini*. Thanks for pointing that out. Anyway, big cubes are difficult and expensive to get in Spain. Some Amazon.com partners have nice prices but don't send big cubes to Spain. TheCubicle sends to Spain but with the price of the cube ($35) and the shipping you end up paying a lot. The cheap chinese shops like Lightake or Cubezz do not sell big cubes... So, where to buy them? I ask you because you're Spanish as well.


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## moralsh (Oct 5, 2015)

mafergut, you have it white on lightake:

http://lightake.com/p/6-9cm-Shengshou-Linglong-Mini-7x7x7-Magic-Cube-Puzzle-Cube-White_M1664.html

any color on zcube:

http://zcube.hk/Standard/7x7x7/ShengShou_7x7_LingLong.html


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## mafergut (Oct 5, 2015)

moralsh said:


> mafergut, you have it white on lightake:
> 
> http://lightake.com/p/6-9cm-Shengshou-Linglong-Mini-7x7x7-Magic-Cube-Puzzle-Cube-White_M1664.html
> 
> ...



I would have sworn that Lightake didn't sell big cubes (in fact I can't find any 6x6x6 there, at least "in stock"). Thanks for the zCube option but it's not any cheaper than our local "PuzzlesDeIngenio" store so, I guess if I decide to give me a Christmas present I will buy them there and give some chance to a local business. I bought my very first speed cube there (a stickerless Zhanchi) and their customer service is excellent. I thought SS 6x6 and 7x7 could be found cheaper than that at some chinese store but it looks like I was wrong.

EDIT: The "nice price" I had seen on Amazon.com was for the regular size 7x7, not the mini. So it looks like Puzzles De Ingenio has very good prices on these cubes.


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## Logiqx (Oct 5, 2015)

mafergut said:


> Somebody told me that except for 4x4, reduction was faster on bigger cubes (5, 6 & 7x7).



I believe free-slice to be the best approach on 6x6 upwards. It's used by the fastest big cube guys such as Kevin and Felix. They also use free-slice for 5x5 and it's what I do on the 5x5 upwards.

Kevin did a seminar at the US Nationals and I seem to remember him saying you should use free-slice for 6x6 upwards. 

I think Hoya is good for 4x4+5x5 and Yau5 also works well for some guys on 5x5. My own preference is to use Yau on 4x4 and free-slice on 5x5 upwards.


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## moralsh (Oct 5, 2015)

I might give it a go to Hoya or Yau5, but at least with me I'm pretty sure than it takes me less time to do the cross at the end thansearching for cross pairs + center restrictions, you also lose color neutrality, at least when reducting it to 3x3x3.


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## bubbagrub (Oct 5, 2015)

mark49152 said:


> Whichever way you go, good luck and see you at UKC!



Thanks Mark. Yes, hopefully we'll both get 4BLD successes at UKC, although in my case I suspect that's a tad optimistic...  But anyway, see you there!


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## cubesp (Oct 5, 2015)

Hi all, 
Can you point me to a good site/tutorial with 222 tricks?
I'm learning Ortega (I still have some problems with one or two alg), I'm sup10. 
But I'm just learning alg, without any strategy (first layer down or up? Finger tricks..).

Thanks
Ps :how it is possible to do it under one second? Unbelievable 

Inviato dal mio D6503 utilizzando Tapatalk


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## h2f (Oct 5, 2015)

> About 4BLD, please, everybody, learn center comms, they are easy and the sooner you start with them, the sooner you'll get fast executing them, every time yo do a U or a D target with U2, a kitten dies somewhere.



Comms are not hard but I think they are too hard for beginner. 



> I think Hoya is good for 4x4+5x5 and Yau5 also works well for some guys on 5x5. My own preference is to use Yau on 4x4 and free-slice on 5x5 upwards.



I was trying Hoya and Yau in 5x5 and 6x6 and I found free slice easier. In the last comp I saw Wojtek Knot solving my 5x5 with free slice on M and he did in around 1 minute. I've switched to it - I was using free slice on E earlier. Halczuk says it's better and gives better look ahead.


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## muchacho (Oct 5, 2015)

For 2x2:

- Build the face/layer on the bottom.

- Face building trainer:
http://cubegrass.appspot.com/2x2face/

- Find good algs and in the future maybe learn another algs for different angles:
http://www.cyotheking.com/ortega/
and watch those videos for tips and fingertricks.


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## cubesp (Oct 5, 2015)

Gracias! 
I'll check tonight

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## mark49152 (Oct 5, 2015)

h2f said:


> I was trying Hoya and Yau in 5x5 and 6x6 and I found free slice easier.


I think it's best to try different methods and choose one that works for your style and level. I found freeslice difficult because of having to scan lots of pieces all over the cube. I now use Hoya with AvG edge pairing because for me the lookahead is much, much easier and I pause way less. As I get faster I will evolve my method and that might include adding bits of freeslice, or switching to it completely.


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## EvilGnome6 (Oct 5, 2015)

Logiqx said:


> I believe free-slice to be the best approach on 6x6 upwards. It's used by the fastest big cube guys such as Kevin and Felix. They also use free-slice for 5x5 and it's what I do on the 5x5 upwards.



The Czech 7x7 Mo3 NR was recently broken by someone using Yau5 so I don't think it should be so readily dismissed as a viable method on big cubes. 

https://youtu.be/srMbo3MjBHM

I find that Yau works extremely well on 5x5 and I mostly use it on bigger cubes out of convenience. I really hate hunting all over the cube for a piece and keeping everything in view makes for a more pleasant solve. 

While free slice may be more efficient, the number of times I see Kevin Hays flip a cube over to search for a piece makes me wonder if it's really that much better.


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## h2f (Oct 5, 2015)

mark49152 said:


> I think it's best to try different methods and choose one that works for your style and level.



Yes, that's true.


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## chtiger (Oct 5, 2015)

There's a comp as nearby as I will probably get (~1 hr 20 min), so I signed up to try to improve on my failure of a 3x3 avg. But that's still a long drive to do five 3x3 solves, so I started doing 2x2 a few days ago. Anyway, would Ortega be worth learning now for a beginner with a comp in less than 3 weeks? I've been doing [hmm, don't know what it's called, beginners method(?)], and bests so far for 1/5/12/100 are 2.00/5.74/7.01/8.49. What kind of improvements would Ortega give, if I could learn it good enough in 2-3 weeks. I started to practice Ortega, and got a PBL case that I could not match to anything in the tutorial, so I gave up for now.

Also, does anybody else use J-perm instead of T-perm? All the tutorials I've seen use T, but J seems slightly better to me.


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## mark49152 (Oct 5, 2015)

chtiger said:


> Anyway, would Ortega be worth learning now for a beginner with a comp in less than 3 weeks? .


Yes Ortega is easy. There's only a handful of algs and you can learn it easily in a few hours. Make sure to search out good algs though. Chris Olsen's site is a good source, as is algdb.net. I don't use J or T perm, I use a 2x2 specific alg: R' U R' F2 R F' R' F2 R2. You can modify it to swap corners on the bottom, by doing the R2 first: R2 U' R' U R' F2 R F' R' F2. It can also be modified to swap diagonally: R' U R' F2 R F' U R' F2 R F' R.


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## Schmidt (Oct 6, 2015)

The one You couldn't find is probably diag/diag, but off by some kind of U turn. Just do R2 B2 R2 and align. It doesn't matter if you align before or after.


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## cubesp (Oct 6, 2015)

chtiger said:


> There's a comp as nearby as I will probably get (~1 hr 20 min), so I signed up to try to improve on my failure of a 3x3 avg. But that's still a long drive to do five 3x3 solves, so I started doing 2x2 a few days ago. Anyway, would Ortega be worth learning now for a beginner with a comp in less than 3 weeks? I've been doing [hmm, don't know what it's called, beginners method(?)], and bests so far for 1/5/12/100 are 2.00/5.74/7.01/8.49. What kind of improvements would Ortega give, if I could learn it good enough in 2-3 weeks. I started to practice Ortega, and got a PBL case that I could not match to anything in the tutorial, so I gave up for now.
> 
> Also, does anybody else use J-perm instead of T-perm? All the tutorials I've seen use T, but J seems slightly better to me.


Beginner and avg5=5.xx in the same sentence is not correct! 
Or at least I hope so... 
Otherwise I'm in the previous state! 


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## mafergut (Oct 6, 2015)

cubesp said:


> Beginner and avg5=5.xx in the same sentence is not correct!
> Or at least I hope so...
> Otherwise I'm in the previous state!



I was gonna say the same. 5.x Ao5 with beginner's method is not bad at all. It's better than my PB with Ortega, that's for sure. So, not really sure he needs to learn Ortega 



mark49152 said:


> Yes Ortega is easy. There's only a handful of algs and you can learn it easily in a few hours. Make sure to search out good algs though. Chris Olsen's site is a good source, as is algdb.net. I don't use J or T perm, I use a 2x2 specific alg: R' U R' F2 R F' R' F2 R2. You can modify it to swap corners on the bottom, by doing the R2 first: R2 U' R' U R' F2 R F' R' F2. It can also be modified to swap diagonally: R' U R' F2 R F' U R' F2 R F' R.



Nice algs, I still was using T and Y perm and rotating the cube when I got them on the bottom, so I will definitely try those. I assume that the 3rd one is for diag swap on the top layer. Do you have a good alg for diag swap on the bottom? Maybe also similar to those three?


----------



## cubesp (Oct 6, 2015)

The link provided by muchacho fit good.


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## newtonbase (Oct 6, 2015)

Any older cubers going to the UK Championships in November?


----------



## muchacho (Oct 6, 2015)

I'm guessing 3 weeks with Ortega may not be enough to improve that much a 5 seconds Ao5.


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## muchacho (Oct 6, 2015)

mark49152 said:


> Yes Ortega is easy. There's only a handful of algs and you can learn it easily in a few hours. Make sure to search out good algs though. Chris Olsen's site is a good source, as is algdb.net. I don't use J or T perm, I use a 2x2 specific alg: R' U R' F2 R F' R' F2 R2. You can modify it to swap corners on the bottom, by doing the R2 first: R2 U' R' U R' F2 R F' R' F2. It can also be modified to swap diagonally: R' U R' F2 R F' U R' F2 R F' R.


For that case I use (with the top bar on the left) R L D2' L' R' + R U' R F2 R' U R' (yeah, without cancelling that R' R) because even if it's longer than other algs R L D2' L' R' and R U' R F2 R' U R' are two Ortega PBL cases that I already can do fast and I know AUF (and because I'm lazy xD). And if the bar is on the back then R U' R F2 R' U R' + R L D2' L' R'


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## chtiger (Oct 6, 2015)

I'm certainly not expecting a 5.xx avg in comp. That's fluky. I'll be happy to screw up just one solve and get sub 10. 7.xx is more of a typical nonlucky solve where I turn smooth and don't mess something up. And while I've only been doing 2x2 for a few days, I've been doing a LOT of solves.

For Ortega, here's the case I don't understand, scramble F R U' R' U R U R2 F' R U R U' R' U' x2 R U' R F2 R' U R'. 
There's a similar one with 1 bar on top and 1 on bottom that are opposite colors. Edit: same scramble but add a y' after x2


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## muchacho (Oct 6, 2015)

For 1 bar on top and 1 on bottom you have to put them together in front or in the back, and use:
- if in front R2 U' B2 U2' R2' U' R2
- if in back (there may be others but I use) R2 U' R2' U2' y R2 U' R2'

When the bars are of opposite colors AUF will be U2, and none if same color.


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## chtiger (Oct 6, 2015)

muchacho said:


> For 1 bar on top and 1 on bottom you have to put them together in front or in the back, and use:
> - if in front R2 U' B2 U2' R2' U' R2
> - if in back (there may be others but I use) R2 U' R2' U2' y R2 U' R2'
> 
> When the bars are of opposite colors AUF will be U2, and none if same color.



Oh, thanks, that works. I was thinking that particular PBL required top and bottom bar to be same (making a solved face)


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## mark49152 (Oct 6, 2015)

mafergut said:


> Do you have a good alg for diag swap on the bottom? Maybe also similar to those three?


I just cancelled it into R2 F2 R2. There is a shorter alg but I don't find it as nice as it involves a D move.



newtonbase said:


> Any older cubers going to the UK Championships in November?


Yep


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## Logiqx (Oct 6, 2015)

newtonbase said:


> Any older cubers going to the UK Championships in November?



Yep. I'm hoping to make it.


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## MarcelP (Oct 6, 2015)

chtiger said:


> I've been doing [hmm, don't know what it's called, beginners method(?)], and bests so far for 1/5/12/100 are 2.00/5.74/7.01/8.49. What kind of improvements would Ortega give, if I could learn it good enough in 2-3 weeks.



It took me more than 3 years to achieve my first sub 10 official average on 2X2. Consider yourself a natural!


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## RicardoRix (Oct 6, 2015)

newtonbase said:


> Any older cubers going to the UK Championships in November?



I shall be going. I have entered 3x3 Blind, still trying to learn M2, hopefully will get through 1 full attempt in 12 minutes, chances of success have to be pretty low, but will try anyway.


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## chtiger (Oct 6, 2015)

MarcelP said:


> It took me more than 3 years to achieve my first sub 10 official average on 2X2. Consider yourself a natural!



Well I may never get an official sub 10 average. That's a whole different thing. See my 3x3 for example


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## Logiqx (Oct 6, 2015)

I've updated the over 40's stats again since a few of you were competing recently.

https://www.speedsolving.com/forum/showthread.php?54128-How-fast-are-the-over-40-s-in-competitions

Sorry for the lack of MBLD... I'm too busy to look into it right now.


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## mark49152 (Oct 6, 2015)

Logiqx said:


> I've updated the over 40's stats again since a few of you were competing recently.


Thanks! I'm faster than Petrus!


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## Jason Green (Oct 6, 2015)

Logiqx said:


> I've updated the over 40's stats again since a few of you were competing recently.
> 
> https://www.speedsolving.com/forum/showthread.php?54128-How-fast-are-the-over-40-s-in-competitions
> 
> Sorry for the lack of MBLD... I'm too busy to look into it right now.


I gotta compete some day just to be on the list!


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## MarcelP (Oct 6, 2015)

Logiqx said:


> I've updated the over 40's stats again since a few of you were competing recently.
> 
> https://www.speedsolving.com/forum/showthread.php?54128-How-fast-are-the-over-40-s-in-competitions




I am 45 and 46 in two months  Btw, in the Dutch Nationals I did beat Ton Dennenbroek in second round  Pretty proud of that..


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## chtiger (Oct 6, 2015)

Logiqx said:


> I've updated the over 40's stats again since a few of you were competing recently.
> 
> https://www.speedsolving.com/forum/showthread.php?54128-How-fast-are-the-over-40-s-in-competitions
> 
> Sorry for the lack of MBLD... I'm too busy to look into it right now.



I guess you can add me to the next update. Born Sep '73


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## Logiqx (Oct 6, 2015)

mark49152 said:


> Thanks! I'm faster than Petrus!



LOL. I'd noticed that after Cuthberts. 



Jason Green said:


> I gotta compete some day just to be on the list!



Cool. The more the merrier! The list is very much incomplete but still quite interesting.



MarcelP said:


> I am 45 and 46 in two months  Btw, in the Dutch Nationals I did beat Ton Dennenbroek in second round  Pretty proud of that..



Ah 1969 then...



chtiger said:


> I guess you can add me to the next update. Born Sep '73



Sorry for missing you out. I'll be sure to add you next update!


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## cubesp (Oct 6, 2015)

ah 1969 ... good year ... uhm but not tires ... I mean ... you know  
I'm class 1969 too, but I don't have a WCA ID ... after 18th October I hope...

by the way, my first real 222 session (I did it without timer till now), I'm satisfied 

I used this (suggested from muchacho) 
http://www.cyotheking.com/ortega/
and this (suggested from mr. google)
http://www.freewebs.com/kippy33/ORTEGA.pdf

single
best: 7.90
worst: 38.05
avg5
current: 16.41 (σ = 1.51)
best: 10.08 (σ = 1.86)
avg12
current: 14.69 (σ = 3.59)
best: 11.73 (σ = 2.60)
avg su 50
current: 17.35 (σ = 6.34)
best: 17.35 (σ = 6.34)

Avg : 17.35 (σ = 6.34)
Mean : 17.60


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## newtonbase (Oct 6, 2015)

RicardoRix said:


> I shall be going. I have entered 3x3 Blind, still trying to learn M2, hopefully will get through 1 full attempt in 12 minutes, chances of success have to be pretty low, but will try anyway.



A 3BLD success was my main goal at WGC but I took 9 mins to rescramble the cube. This time I'll get at least 2 attempts. 

Glad a few of you are going. I believe I was the oldest by over a decade last time.


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## SenorJuan (Oct 6, 2015)

"Any older cubers going to the UK Championships in November?"
I'm leaving my entry decision late, I'll definitely go and watch, mingle, feel too old, try and find Mike, that kinda stuff.

In other news, I was practicing my 333 OH earlier, just first two layers, and it wasn't actually going that well. But the grey matter got a bit warmed up, and I produced a 13 sec. time. Obviously an easy one, two pairs were already made up, but everything else went smoothly. Why didn't you go and monster the LL and get a sub-20, I hear you ask? Hmmm...well I had a pop earlier, and just shoved the bits back in, it didn't matter how, I was only practicing the first layers... hence finishing off that solve would be pointless...


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## newtonbase (Oct 7, 2015)

You really should enter. You'll enjoy it. There could be enough of us for a wrinklies corner.


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## bubbagrub (Oct 7, 2015)

newtonbase said:


> Any older cubers going to the UK Championships in November?



I'll be there too...


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## h2f (Oct 7, 2015)

cubesp said:


> by the way, my first real 222 session (I did it without timer till now), I'm satisfied



Your times are really good. It was very frustraiting to me when I saw kids doing 4-5 seconds ao5 with Ortega when I was around 15. That's why for a long time I didnt practice 2x2 and started a year ago doing during a year 3 or 4 big practice sessions with ao1000. Keep going, you will be sub10 very soon.

Edit: In my opinion doing ao1000 should drop down times to sub 10.


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## Logiqx (Oct 7, 2015)

newtonbase said:


> You really should enter. You'll enjoy it. There could be enough of us for a wrinklies corner.



List so far...

Ben Coppin (bubbagrub)
Mark Adams (newtonbase)
Mark Rivers (mark49152)
Michael George (Logiqx)
Richard Leiser (RicardoRix)
? (SenorJuan)


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## RicardoRix (Oct 7, 2015)

Logiqx said:


> Ricky Bailey? (RicardoRix)



My name is Richard Leiser. Born 1973.
At the UK comp, I'm hoping for a sub 30 second single, and a BLD success. I really wish I'd tried learning blindsolving earlier, got stuck in a rut with standard 3x3, but blind is really good - so many different things going on all at the same time. I'm totally crap at it, just like 3x3, but it's very enjoyable trying.


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## Logiqx (Oct 7, 2015)

RicardoRix said:


> My name is Richard Leiser. Born 1973.
> At the UK comp, I'm hoping for a sub 30 second single, and a BLD success.



Cool, I see you competed in UKC 2013.

See you at UKC 2015.


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## MarcelP (Oct 7, 2015)

I am not sure what to think about the new TangLong



Spoiler:  Ao5 16.96



1. 16.35 R B L B2 L U2 D' L R' D' L D' L' B D2 F' R2 F' L2 D' B R' B R' D2
check out my nice *x-cross* solution which I spotted in inspection (I saw blue yellow pair in U layer):
y2 // inspection
R' D L F' // x-cross
2. 23.67 R2 U B U2 D2 L2 D' L B L U' D' R2 B L' B F U' R2 B R B U F2 U2
3. 17.03 L2 F2 D2 B U2 D' F2 D2 B' F U2 L' B U L B' D' L' D B U R F' L' D
4. 17.41 L2 U F R L2 U2 D2 B U2 F D' R' F D2 B' D L2 F' R' D2 R2 L' F' L R'
5. 16.43 F B2 U2 R F2 R' B' D2 R' L' F' L2 R' U2 B' R F U2 B F U F2 D U' L'


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## SpeedCubeReview (Oct 7, 2015)

So how old do I have to be to be participating in this thread. 

I've been away for awhile but my work is now settling down.


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## EvilGnome6 (Oct 7, 2015)

ViolaBouquet said:


> So how old do I have to be to be participating in this thread.



Old enough to realize that practice alone won't make you as fast as Feliks.


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## Jason Green (Oct 7, 2015)

ViolaBouquet said:


> So how old do I have to be to be participating in this thread.
> 
> I've been away for awhile but my work is now settling down.


My opinion is 30 would be an "older cuber". I think a lot of us are over 40. 

We get some posts from youngsters though which is fine with me.


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## newtonbase (Oct 7, 2015)

There's bonus points if you remember Rubik's Cubes from the first time around.


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## cubesp (Oct 7, 2015)

If you remember "the magic cube"


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## h2f (Oct 7, 2015)

In my country it is still Rubik s cube. I coulfnt solve it when i was teenage. 

patataj patataj patataj


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## mafergut (Oct 7, 2015)

MarcelP said:


> I am not sure what to think about the new TangLong



I will check your video later but I'm so envious of the amount of sub-17s you seem to be getting lately 
Anyway, can you ellaborate a bit more on your opinion about the TangLong? I wouldn't mind getting one for my collection, not because I think it will solve my lack of progress, just because I'm still in search for the cube that feels good for me. I've tried so many and none of them are quite right, there's always some little (or big) drawback, be it instability, lack of reverse corner cutting, too fast... too blocky, too flexible, corner twists...


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## mark49152 (Oct 7, 2015)

newtonbase said:


> There's bonus points if you remember Rubik's Cubes from the first time around.


Double bonus points if you remember drinking beer while solving the first time around...


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## MarcelP (Oct 7, 2015)

mafergut said:


> I will check your video later but I'm so envious of the amount of sub-17s you seem to be getting lately



Thanks. Slow practice seems to be working for me..



mafergut said:


> Anyway, can you ellaborate a bit more on your opinion about the TangLong?



It is growing on me. At first I was not impressed. But the fact remains that I get very decent times with it. It does have very few flaws. For example, corner twists are near impossble. Corner cutting is perfect. It is very stable, and controllable. Well, I am not sure about that yet. But for now I think it is controllable. Of course doing tens of thousands of solves on my Gans356 make a huge bias to that cube. I doubt it will be better than my Gans but I will give it a fair try.


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## SpeedCubeReview (Oct 7, 2015)

MarcelP said:


> It is growing on me. At first I was not impressed. But the fact remains that I get very decent times with it. It does have very few flaws. For example, corner twists are near impossble. Corner cutting is perfect. It is very stable, and controllable. Well, I am not sure about that yet. But for now I think it is controllable. Of course doing tens of thousands of solves on my Gans356 make a huge bias to that cube. I doubt it will be better than my Gans but I will give it a fair try.



I'm kind of in that same boat. It's a solid cube, not doubt about that. It just doesn't feel as smooth as my MeiYing and a bit .... clacky if that makes sense. I did get decent times on it but I also has some solve where the whole thing seemed to be me fighting through the catches. It never locked up but It didn't seem smooth to me. It may all be trying to find the right tensions though. I'm going to give mine away soon but have a grey one on preorder which I will spend a lot more time setting up.


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## cubesp (Oct 7, 2015)

ViolaBouquet said:


> I'm kind of in that same boat. It's a solid cube, not doubt about that. It just doesn't feel as smooth as my MeiYing and a bit .... clacky if that makes sense. I did get decent times on it but I also has some solve where the whole thing seemed to be me fighting through the catches. It never locked up but It didn't seem smooth to me. It may all be trying to find the right tensions though. I'm going to give mine away soon but have a grey one on preorder which I will spend a lot more time setting up.


I've ordered meiying and I'm waiting for it. 
May I ask you your opinion about
Meiying vs gans356 vs hualong?


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## Jason Green (Oct 8, 2015)

MarcelP said:


> I am not sure what to think about the new TangLong
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Nice! All you guys that are over 40 and under 20 are my heroes! 

Maybe I'll be my own hero someday, because I believe the children are our future, you know?


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## MarcelP (Oct 8, 2015)

Jason Green said:


> Nice! All you guys that are over 40 and under 20 are my heroes!
> 
> Maybe I'll be my own hero someday, because I believe the children are our future, you know?



Ah well, it was just a lucky first 5 solves of the day.. The rest was all crap  And I am barely sub 20. I am pretty sure that if you stick with us long enough you will be just as fast as us and maybe faster..


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## h2f (Oct 8, 2015)

Polish Nats are starting tomorrow. I hope for few good solves.


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## newtonbase (Oct 8, 2015)

h2f said:


> Polish Nats are starting tomorrow. I hope for few good solves.



Good luck.


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## MarcelP (Oct 8, 2015)

h2f said:


> Polish Nats are starting tomorrow. I hope for few good solves.



Good luck Grzegorz. Break a leg..


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## cubesp (Oct 8, 2015)

h2f said:


> Polish Nats are starting tomorrow. I hope for few good solves.


Have fun. Good luck


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## Jason Green (Oct 8, 2015)

h2f said:


> Polish Nats are starting tomorrow. I hope for few good solves.


Do good! Will you get to have any videos for us?


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## moralsh (Oct 8, 2015)

h2f said:


> Polish Nats are starting tomorrow. I hope for few good solves.



So are Spanish 

Good luck!


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## muchacho (Oct 8, 2015)

Good luck both! Some videos!


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## mafergut (Oct 8, 2015)

h2f said:


> Polish Nats are starting tomorrow. I hope for few good solves.





moralsh said:


> So are Spanish



Good luck to you both! So sad I cannot be there in the Spanish Nats. It would be an awesome experience, even if I DNFed almost every solve  Also I'm sure the weather is gonna be much better than what we have up here in Valladolid. By the way, Raúl, if you ever think of organising a comp in Valladolid I would try to do my best to help!


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## moralsh (Oct 8, 2015)

mafergut, if you find a good venue, I and others will help for sure. Make it a one day comp and lots of people from Madrid will also go there. Come on, start searching!


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## muchacho (Oct 8, 2015)

The newspaper article (spanish) about that comp where I got an average of almost 1 minute and a half


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## Logiqx (Oct 8, 2015)

Good luck everyone competing!


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## mark49152 (Oct 8, 2015)

Good luck this weekend!

Marcel, have you thought of coming to UK Champs on Nov 7/8? It's not too late to register and it's only a short flight


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## MarcelP (Oct 8, 2015)

mark49152 said:


> Good luck this weekend!
> 
> Marcel, have you thought of coming to UK Champs on Nov 7/8? It's not too late to register and it's only a short flight



Thanks for thinking about me. I think it would be very nice to go to a competion in UK and meet you (and others). But it would have to be a 1 day comp with cool events. On a 2 day competition they usually have cool events on two days, meaning if you go to the day where 3X3 is there also are none fun events. I am not even sure if I will be able to make it to the Dutch Open this month. It's quite busy in my life right now (mostly with other fun hobbies and sports). I am hoping to go to next European Champs if if will be not too far away.


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## h2f (Oct 8, 2015)

Thanks for good wishes (Im not sure if Im correct now in English). I take my camera - last time it was down. I was thinking I got my mbld attempt but recording has stopped when I had 2 cubes to do.


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## mark49152 (Oct 8, 2015)

MarcelP said:


> But it would have to be a 1 day comp with cool events.


Well of course you'd always be welcome at any UK comp and it would be nice to meet. 

In my limited experience of UK comps they tend to be two days with 3x3 on the second day and all rounds of each event on the same day. Second day is much busier as many people go for 3x3 only or can't make both days and don't want to miss 3x3.

For UKC, 3x3, 4x4, OH and Pyra are all on the Sunday. Events on Saturday include 2x2 and FMC. Schedule is here: http://www.ukca.org/competitions/upcoming-competitions/uk-championship-2015/events-and-schedule


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## Logiqx (Oct 9, 2015)

mark49152 said:


> Great to see some interest in 5x5. A couple of days ago I had my first sub-2:30 so my dreams of making the cut and getting an average are still alive!  It was 2:26, I've had a couple of other 2.3x solves too, and several 2.4x's. Generally though, I'm finding it very hard to improve my averages and I'd need a lot of luck and great form on the day to make cut at UKC.



I'm improving but I'm still quite some way behind you. I got a 3:00.279 single last night so I just missed out on my first sub-3 single. That'll teach me to glance at the clock and cause a lock up during LL! My best Ao5 is 3:16 and best Ao12 is 3:29 so I have a fair way to go before I get to a 3 minute average, let alone cut-off territory.


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## MarcelP (Oct 9, 2015)

mark49152 said:


> Well of course you'd always be welcome at any UK comp and it would be nice to meet.
> 
> In my limited experience of UK comps they tend to be two days with 3x3 on the second day and all rounds of each event on the same day. Second day is much busier as many people go for 3x3 only or can't make both days and don't want to miss 3x3.
> 
> For UKC, 3x3, 4x4, OH and Pyra are all on the Sunday. Events on Saturday include 2x2 and FMC. Schedule is here: http://www.ukca.org/competitions/upcoming-competitions/uk-championship-2015/events-and-schedule



Yeah that will be fun some day. What I wanted to ask, how is CN training working out? Or did you drop it allready? I seem to be making slight progress with slow practise training.. I feel faster now.. Of course in next weekend on the competition none of this will be visible.. LOL



Logiqx said:


> and best Ao12 is 3:29 so I have a fair way to go before I get to a 3 minute average, let alone cut-off territory.



I have the Dutch open in 9 days and have not even touched my 5x5.. LOL that will work out great I suspect..


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## muchacho (Oct 9, 2015)

Finally, first PB in more than 2 weeks and first Ao5 below 30 seconds. I got slower when I changed cube (from weilong to mini aolong) and some sticker colors (that affected my CN solves most, probably because I have neglected it a bit in order to return soon to my best times).

Ao5: 29.926



Spoiler: Ao5 times



29.094 R2 D' F2 D' L2 U R2 D' L2 D2 B2 R' D2 B2 D R' L' F' R U L U2
35.254 F2 U2 B2 U L2 D' F2 U' L2 U2 F2 L F U F U R' U R' B' L D'
28.878 B2 U2 B2 U2 R2 F2 R2 F2 L2 U F R' D U B' R B L' D' B D'
28.508 R2 U R2 B2 R2 U2 L2 U F2 D' B2 R B D' U2 R F' D' U' F2 R'
31.806 U F2 U' B2 R2 U2 F2 L2 U L2 D L F D2 L U' R B2 L' F2 L2 U'


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## MarcelP (Oct 9, 2015)

Okay, here some proof I am improving.. First 15 solves of the day... A sub 18 Ao12 on cam..

Fun fact: there where no real easy scrambles. All hard crosses, not a single OLL or PLL skip..



Spoiler: Times



Generated By csTimer on 2015-10-9
solves/total: 14/15

single
best: 16.71
worst: 20.34

mean of 3
current: 17.76 (σ = 0.92)
best: 17.56 (σ = 0.77)

avg of 5
current: 17.76 (σ = 0.92)
best: 17.66 (σ = 0.47)

avg of 12
current: 17.97 (σ = 0.81)
best: 17.97 (σ = 0.81)

Average: 18.37 (σ = 1.09)
Mean: 18.26

Time List:
1. 20.04 F2 B' U L U2 R F' U' F' B2 U' L B' R F' R F2 L' U' B2 R' F U' B2 U'
2. 18.79 R' B F' D2 F2 B L' D' F2 B R2 L' D' R' F2 U2 L2 U2 F' U' R B2 U' D B
3. 20.34 L2 U' F' B D F' B2 U2 R' U D R' B' L' F B2 L R U F U2 B R D B2
4. 18.44 L2 R U' D' B D' R2 D2 R' U' F' U' F B' U L D' F2 D2 R2 D2 F L B L2
5. 17.25 R L' U' B D2 U2 L R' D U' B D U' L2 D2 R' U2 D R2 U B2 L B F2 U
6. 17.00 R' L D' R2 B2 R2 D2 U R' F2 U' B F D L D' B' L2 B' R B2 D B2 L2 U2
7. 18.91 U B2 F2 L U F' U D' B D' U F R U2 B2 F2 L' B L2 F' B R U' L F
8. 18.18 F2 D2 U' F2 U' L B2 F L' U' D' L F2 L D' B R' F U L F2 U R2 D' U2
9. 17.56 B L' D F D' R2 L D2 B D' R' D2 U2 F' U F2 D U' B' D' L2 R U2 D B2
10. DNF(20.42) U2 B F2 D2 B2 D2 U2 B' F R2 U F D' F2 L B2 U2 L' D2 U2 L2 R D' L' B2
11. 16.71 L2 B D L R' D2 R' L D F2 B' U2 D B R2 U L' R' B' L' B F2 R U2 D'
12. 19.09 D' B R L2 U' L2 R' D' U' R D B' U2 R2 U' L2 U R2 U2 R' F2 L2 D' L' F
13. 17.75 R2 U2 D R2 L2 B' F D2 R L U' F' B U2 L U' F L' B F' L' U2 R F2 U
14. 16.84 F2 B2 L2 D2 R U2 F U' B' F' D' U L' U' L D L2 D' U2 R' F' L R2 F2 L
15. 18.69 U2 B' U2 D' B' L F' U L' R2 D2 R L B2 D2 L2 R2 F2 L D' L2 D B2 U' B'







Oh and... everyone in this topic that does not have a sub 18 Ao12 on cam is noob


----------



## MarcelP (Oct 9, 2015)

muchacho said:


> Finally,...
> 
> Ao5: 29.926



Nice!!! PB's always make my day..


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## EvilGnome6 (Oct 9, 2015)

MarcelP said:


> Oh and... everyone in this topic that does not have a sub 18 Ao12 on cam is noob



I've never even had a sub 18 single.


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## Logiqx (Oct 9, 2015)

MarcelP said:


> Oh and... everyone in this topic that does not have a sub 18 Ao12 on cam is noob



Ok... I'll add it to my todo list. 

Sent from my GT-I9305 using Tapatalk


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## Logiqx (Oct 9, 2015)

EvilGnome6 said:


> I've never even had a sub 18 single.


You're way better than the rest of us at big cubes so i wouldn't worry it. We're going to be chasing your big cube times for quite some time!

Sent from my GT-I9305 using Tapatalk


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## EvilGnome6 (Oct 9, 2015)

Logiqx said:


> You're way better than the rest of us at big cubes so i wouldn't worry it. We're going to be chasing your big cube times for quite some time!



Oh, I'm not worried. I'm just a little baffled about my lagging 3x3 skills sometimes. At least they're still improving. I got a 21.96s Ao5 yesterday which was a new PB.


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## mafergut (Oct 9, 2015)

MarcelP said:


> Oh and... everyone in this topic that does not have a sub 18 Ao12 on cam is noob



Then I'm an uber-noob as I don't have a sub-18 Ao12 on cam or otherwise, as my PB is 18.02 and I rarely get a low 18.

I'm trying to convince myself that I should forget for a while about 3x3 and concentrate in OH and 4x4 / 5x5, events at which I'm comparatively horrible at, so don't try to pique my pride in trying to succeed at this new challenge, as it can only end up in more frustration 

Great job on that Ao12, by the way. I may be envious but I'm a sportsman!



EvilGnome6 said:


> Oh, I'm not worried. I'm just a little baffled about my lagging 3x3 skills sometimes. At least they're still improving. I got a 21.96s Ao5 yesterday which was a new PB.



That's exactly my feeling the other way around, with my lagging 4x4 skills. I cannot complain about 5x5 and bigger as I just bought a 5x5 and I don't even own anything bigger than that.


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## mark49152 (Oct 9, 2015)

MarcelP said:


> how is CN training working out? Or did you drop it allready?


Haven't tried it since. I've tried to slow down a bit though and work on reducing pauses.



MarcelP said:


> Oh and... everyone in this topic that does not have a sub 18 Ao12 on cam is noob


Well, after getting a 17.68 PB ao100 this morning, I thought I'd try to get some good solves on cam. Unfortunately, camera nerves kicked in, and by the time the battery died all I had achieved was a few messy solves with nothing worth uploading. The best bit was a 17.34 ao5. There was a faster ao5 but only because of a PLL skip. Sub-18 ao12 on cam is a nice target.


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## Jason Green (Oct 9, 2015)

MarcelP said:


> Okay, here some proof I am improving.. First 15 solves of the day... A sub 18 Ao12 on cam..
> 
> Oh and... everyone in this topic that does not have a sub 18 Ao12 on cam is noob



Don't you do any warm up solves? I noticed 2 of your first 3 were 20+. I always do one or two warm ups that I don't count, it takes me a minute to get going.

And yes, I definitely feel like I'm a noob. 



muchacho said:


> Finally, first PB in more than 2 weeks and first Ao5 below 30 seconds. I got slower when I changed cube (from weilong to mini aolong) and some sticker colors (that affected my CN solves most, probably because I have neglected it a bit in order to return soon to my best times).



Great job! I had a PB on two consecutive days earlier this week, that was awesome. 22 something and then 21.6x. Both I think partial LL skips, I don't care.  We are staying pretty close to each other for the moment it seems!

Question, when you guys show your times do you manually type it in? I can do an export from cstimer, but it's very messy it seems. Here was my best A05 so far, I just did a screen grab. 





EvilGnome6 said:


> I've never even had a sub 18 single.



I'm surprised to hear that, but yes you are awesome at the big cubes!


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## Logiqx (Oct 9, 2015)

Jason Green said:


> Question, when you guys show your times do you manually type it in? I can do an export from cstimer, but it's very messy it seems. Here was my best A05 so far, I just did a screen grab.



Click on the session summary at the bottom right of the screen. It opens a popup with text that can be copied to your clipboard.

Sent from my GT-I9305 using Tapatalk


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## mafergut (Oct 9, 2015)

Jason Green said:


> Great job! I had a PB on two consecutive days earlier this week, that was awesome. 22 something and then 21.6x. Both I think partial LL skips, I don't care.  We are staying pretty close to each other for the moment it seems!
> 
> Question, when you guys show your times do you manually type it in? I can do an export from cstimer, but it's very messy it seems. Here was my best A05 so far, I just did a screen grab.



You're improving fast, man! Just a week ago you were doing high 3Xs and low 4Xs and now you are around 30 seconds average. Well done!


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## Jason Green (Oct 9, 2015)

Logiqx said:


> Click on the session summary at the bottom right of the screen. It opens a popup with text that can be copied to your clipboard.
> 
> Sent from my GT-I9305 using Tapatalk


Haha, thanks. Guess looking harder might have helped!


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## Jason Green (Oct 9, 2015)

mafergut said:


> You're improving fast, man! Just a week ago you were doing high 3Xs and low 4Xs and now you are around 30 seconds average. Well done!


Thanks, too bad we can't keep up the rate of improvement we had in the beginning... We'd all be as fast as Feliks. 

Oh I forgot to mention I started on the full OLL. It's fun and exciting! Hope my brain does not over flow.


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## Logiqx (Oct 9, 2015)

Logiqx said:


> Ok... I'll add it to my todo list.
> 
> Sent from my GT-I9305 using Tapatalk



Man... I keep losing it - I currently have an 18.37 on film!

I'm getting a fair few 15's today but I keep interleaving good solves with bad ones!

26. 15.92 R' D L2 D R2 B2 D' F2 R2 D2 U' L2 B' R' D2 L U2 R F L2 
27. 15.59 B' U2 F U2 R2 B' L2 F R2 B' F2 U R' B U2 R2 B2 R' F' U' B2 
28. 20.84 D U2 L2 B2 U L2 R2 F2 D2 U' B' U2 L' U R B' R2 B2 D' R' 
29. 25.88 B' U2 L2 F2 L2 R U2 R2 D2 F2 B' D' L' U' L R2 U2 B' 
30. 15.48 R2 U' F2 U F2 D2 F2 U R2 U B2 R U' F2 R B2 R' D' R F U2 
31. 15.20 B2 L' F2 L U2 R' B2 U2 F2 D2 R D F' U' R2 D' R2 B' L' B' F'


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## cubesp (Oct 9, 2015)

Jason Green said:


> Thanks, too bad we can't keep up the rate of improvement we had in the beginning... We'd all be as fast as Felix.
> 
> Oh I forgot to mention I started on the full OLL. It's fun and exciting! Hope my brain does not over flow.


Jason we're on the same line. Two days ago I did my PB 22.20 PLL skip. My average is still sup30 

And I'm definitely a noob, Marcel ! 

I still have to do my first cam and my first sub18


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## Jason Green (Oct 9, 2015)

cubesp said:


> Jason we're on the same line. Two days ago I did my PB 22.20 PLL skip. My average is still sup30
> 
> And I'm definitely a noob, Marcel !
> 
> I still have to do my first cam and my first sub18


Just to be clear my real average is sup 30 also overall, about 32 something. That 27 ao5 was especially good right now.


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## cubesp (Oct 9, 2015)

My sub30s can be counted with fingers of hands...


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## MarcelP (Oct 9, 2015)

Logiqx said:


> Ok... I'll add it to my todo list.
> 
> Sent from my GT-I9305 using Tapatalk



I knew you would...  I am suprised you did not have one allready.. 



EvilGnome6 said:


> I've never even had a sub 18 single.



In time.. In time... 



mafergut said:


> Great job on that Ao12, by the way. I may be envious but I'm a sportsman!



Thanks!



mark49152 said:


> Well, after getting a 17.68 PB ao100 this morning



Wow, nice Mark... I have not timed a big session in a long while. I solve slow untimed a lot. And maybe 12 - 20 timed solves per day. The slow solving is paying off. I can feel it. I rarely watch my own video's but I watched this sub 18 Ao12 two times. The first few solves are not so cool and smooth but the last ones I can see I am in a real nice flow. I am finding pair so easy.. And that is all there is to it right now. I am seeing stuff better. I am still far off you times though. I think I will go to sub 19 overall soon. 




Jason Green said:


> Don't you do any warm up solves? I noticed 2 of your first 3 were 20+. I always do one or two warm ups that I don't count, it takes me a minute to get going.
> 
> And yes, I definitely feel like I'm a noob.



No, I did not warm up. I have cutoff the first three solves because they are not in the sub 18 Ao12.. But they where pretty nice solves anyway.  Warming up for me is usually more than 20 - 30 solves before I become truely warmed up.


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## Logiqx (Oct 9, 2015)

MarcelP said:


> Oh and... everyone in this topic that does not have a sub 18 Ao12 on cam is noob



This challenge will have to wait a while longer but I captured a 16.83 Ao5 during my attempt.

The first two solves contained a ton of pauses and the third solve.. well... you'll just have to watch it!


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## MarcelP (Oct 9, 2015)

Logiqx said:


> This challenge will have to wait a while longer but I captured a 16.83 Ao5 during my attempt.
> 
> The first two solves contained a ton of pauses and the third solve.. well... you'll just have to watch it!



Eeewwww.. stock stickers... LOL... You have got to love those 38 sec solves when you average 20.  Number 4 and 5 make up for it


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## Logiqx (Oct 9, 2015)

MarcelP said:


> Eeewwww.. stock stickers... LOL... You have got to love those 38 sec solves when you average 20.  Number 4 and 5 make up for it



Yeah the stickers are pretty horrible!

I very nearly deleted that 38s solve but I decided to leave it for video continuity. It's a good job I kept it or the Ao5 would have been invalid!

Solve 4 was orange cross... thought you might like it.


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## MarcelP (Oct 9, 2015)

Logiqx said:


> Solve 4 was orange cross... thought you might like it.



Yup, CN people are a tad bit cooler than the rest of the world..


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## muchacho (Oct 9, 2015)

And not fully CN people are not cool nor warm, they are just room temperature :confused:


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## muchacho (Oct 9, 2015)

Jason Green said:


> Just to be clear my real average is sup 30 also overall, about 32 something. That 27 ao5 was especially good right now.



And I'm slower, 35 seconds or so.


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## mafergut (Oct 9, 2015)

Logiqx said:


> This challenge will have to wait a while longer but I captured a 16.83 Ao5 during my attempt.
> 
> The first two solves contained a ton of pauses and the third solve.. well... you'll just have to watch it!



I just can't stop saying it. I like your turning style a lot. It seems so slow during F2L but the flow is so great. And then, bam! you spam very nice TPS during LL.

Regarding the 3rd solve... what happened man! It also happens to me at times and it drives me crazy.


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## Logiqx (Oct 9, 2015)

mafergut said:


> I just can't stop saying it. I like your turning style a lot. It seems so slow during F2L but the flow is so great. And then, bam! you spam very nice TPS during LL.
> 
> Regarding the 3rd solve... what happened man! It also happens to me at times and it drives me crazy.



Thanks! I don't really know what happened but I ended up with a cross piece floating around after messing up OLL. I decided to fix the cross and OLL with L6E but my Roux is a bit rusty and it took ages. hehe.


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## newtonbase (Oct 9, 2015)

I envy you guys getting to practice like this. I set my 26s PB single in June last year and have timed Ao12s less than 20 times. The UKs will be a rare treat.


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## MarcelP (Oct 9, 2015)

muchacho said:


> And not fully CN people are not cool nor warm, they are just room temperature :confused:



No, the correct term for almost CN is 'luke hand' warm...


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## mark49152 (Oct 9, 2015)

MarcelP said:


> Wow, nice Mark... I am still far off you times though. I think I will go to sub 19 overall soon.


I wasn't as happy as I usually am with a PB. My times are so inconsistent recently. For some reason today I got in a really good flow that lasted longer than just 10-20 solves. But I have more bad averages than good ones these days. Earlier this week I had two that were sup-19.



MarcelP said:


> The slow solving is paying off. I can feel it. ... I am finding pair so easy.. And that is all there is to it right now. I am seeing stuff better.


I have been making more of an effort to turn slow and look ahead and I think that's why I had good form today. I can see in the video I made today that I still pause way too much though - more than I realize while solving. Solves that seem smooth and almost pause-free look full of pauses when watched back on video!



Logiqx said:


> I captured a 16.83 Ao5 during my attempt.


Really nice solves, as usual! I'm sure you will improve faster than any of us as it looks like you have so much room.



MarcelP said:


> Okay, here some proof I am improving.. First 15 solves of the day... A sub 18 Ao12 on cam..


Very nice . How tight do you have your 356? It looks really tight in that vid. I love the feel but find it too unstable - does tightening fix that?


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## Jason Green (Oct 9, 2015)

Logiqx said:


> This challenge will have to wait a while longer but I captured a 16.83 Ao5 during my attempt.
> 
> The first two solves contained a ton of pauses and the third solve.. well... you'll just have to watch it!
> 
> https://youtu.be/7fm3UKM4DAk



You're more persistent than me, if I see a messed up cross on the LL or something I usually quit.


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## h2f (Oct 10, 2015)

Small relation from nats: 
4bld 10:18 and 4th:-(
5bld dnfy
Fmc 35 but dnf due wrong comm notation
Multi 4/5 it was night and i was to tired. We fonished at 20.30. 


patataj patataj patataj


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## MarcelP (Oct 10, 2015)

mark49152 said:


> Very nice . How tight do you have your 356? It looks really tight in that vid. I love the feel but find it too unstable - does tightening fix that?


I have it where it cuts 45 degrees without effort. But compared to a Moyu it is very tight. I think the main thing to fix is the screws in the corners. You have to fiddle a bit. I think mine are like, first screw untill you can not screw further. Then unscrew one and a half full turn. The champion of last Ducth Nationals asked me if he could borrow my cube since he really liked it (and he did use it at the comp and I just used another of my Gans356's). And he has a Gans 356 himself... Just to prove you have to adjust and fiddle a lot untill you like it. I think there is no better cube than the Gans 356 and there won't be for a long time.



h2f said:


> Small relation from nats:
> 4bld 10:18 and 4th:-(
> 5bld dnfy
> Fmc 35 but dnf due wrong comm notation
> Multi 4/5 it was night and i was to tired. We fonished at 20.30.



Good luck today.. The 4/5 MBLD is pretty cool.


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## muchacho (Oct 10, 2015)

That 10:18 is 11 minutes faster than your previous official PB, why that sad face? for missing podium on 4bld? what time did you expect? and 4/5 is better than 5/7 on mbld, right?


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## Jason Green (Oct 10, 2015)

MarcelP said:


> I think there is no better cube than the Gans 356 and there won't be for a long time.



Cool I may have to order one now! I use my new island stickerless mostly, but I can be overly sloppy with the turns a lot. I have another new island, and a Moyu Aolong v2. I haven't used the Moyu a lot but it seems corner cutting is not enough for me. Also a couple of the inside little prongs broke on the Moyu which surprised me, it still holds together fine though.


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## Jason Green (Oct 10, 2015)

Jason Green said:


> Cool I may have to order one now! I use my new island stickerless mostly, but I can be overly sloppy with the turns a lot. I have another new island, and a Moyu Aolong v2. I haven't used the Moyu a lot but it seems corner cutting is not enough for me. Also a couple of the inside little prongs broke on the Moyu which surprised me, it still hold together fine though.


Oh yeah, any other must have cubes? 3x3 for now.  I know there are forums about this but I'd rather ask here.


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## Logiqx (Oct 10, 2015)

newtonbase said:


> I envy you guys getting to practice like this. I set my 26s PB single in June last year and have timed Ao12s less than 20 times. The UKs will be a rare treat.



Lack of practice must be pretty frustrating. It'll be great to say hello at the UKC in a few weeks time. 



Jason Green said:


> Oh yeah, any other must have cubes? 3x3 for now.  I know there are forums about this but I'd rather ask here.



The MoYu HuaLong / MoYu HuanLong (same cube but the name changed for some reason) is a great cube.


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## mark49152 (Oct 10, 2015)

Jason Green said:


> Oh yeah, any other must have cubes? 3x3 for now.  I know there are forums about this but I'd rather ask here.


The TangLong has got good reviews and seems the exciting cube of the moment, although mine hasn't arrived yet so I can't vouch for it. There are lots of good cubes and they all feel a bit different. In my opinion it's worth getting a few and seeing what you like. Also experiment with setting them up. I agree with Mike that HuaLong is great. AoLong v2 has been my main for over a year, it just needs good tensions and lube (corner cutting is fine on mine). YuXin is good and feels quite similar. I still love the WeiLong v2, it's a bit smoother and faster than the AoLong. Gan356 you know all about. Most cubes are good these days so you can't go far wrong!


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## mark49152 (Oct 10, 2015)

h2f said:


> 4bld 10:18 and 4th:-(
> Multi 4/5


Those are nice results!



MarcelP said:


> I have it where it cuts 45 degrees without effort. But compared to a Moyu it is very tight. I think the main thing to fix is the screws in the corners. You have to fiddle a bit. I think mine are like, first screw untill you can not screw further. Then unscrew one and a half full turn.


OK, I think mine are only unscrewed about 0.75 turn. Catchiness is gone tho. How much of the plastic core do you have sticking through your nuts? My nuts are level with the ends.


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## newtonbase (Oct 10, 2015)

Logiqx said:


> Lack of practice must be pretty frustrating. It'll be great to say hello at the UKC in a few weeks time.



Definitely.


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## h2f (Oct 10, 2015)

Of course im happy with my 4bld rrsult but being 4th is worst than being 3th. 
Thats why ive made sad face.

patataj patataj patataj


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## mark49152 (Oct 10, 2015)

h2f said:


> Of course im happy with my 4bld rrsult but being 4th is worst than being 3th.


Could be worse, you could have been 5th...


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## h2f (Oct 11, 2015)

Unsolved problem if glass is half empty or half full. 

patataj patataj patataj


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## MarcelP (Oct 11, 2015)

mark49152 said:


> How much of the plastic core do you have sticking through your nuts? My nuts are level with the ends.


Yes, the same!


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## mark49152 (Oct 11, 2015)

MarcelP said:


> Yes, the same!


Oh, mine doesn't feel at all tight though, actually quite loose...


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## cubesp (Oct 11, 2015)

h2f said:


> Unsolved problem if glass is half empty or half full.
> 
> patataj patataj patataj


The glass is full, 
half water (or beer) half air 
(and in my case I probably know 
where the other half beer is)

Compliments. Nice result!


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## MarcelP (Oct 11, 2015)

mark49152 said:


> Oh, mine doesn't feel at all tight though, actually quite loose...



Maybe your metal arms (octopus arms) are not screwed in the core as far as mine..


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## mark49152 (Oct 11, 2015)

MarcelP said:


> Maybe your metal arms (octopus arms) are not screwed in the core as far as mine..


OK ignore me, I'm being dumb. I'm thinking of my 357. I haven't even looked under my 356 caps. They are both on stock tensions anyway.


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## h2f (Oct 11, 2015)

1:35.92 in 3bld. 

patataj patataj patataj


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## MarcelP (Oct 11, 2015)

h2f said:


> 1:35.92 in 3bld.



Awesome!


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## Logiqx (Oct 11, 2015)

h2f said:


> 1:35.92 in 3bld.
> 
> patataj patataj patataj



Congrats. That's a big PB looking at your previous results!


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## mark49152 (Oct 11, 2015)

h2f said:


> 1:35.92 in 3bld.


Great result, congrats! How long for memo? How many targets?


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## Logiqx (Oct 11, 2015)

Logiqx said:


> I'm going to start practicing and see what happens to my times. I'm barely sub-4 at the moment but I want to get down to sub-3. It's going to require a lot of practice!



Quick update... I'm averaging about 3:20 after a month back on the 5x5. I'm a long way off the UK cut-off but it's good to be improving!


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## mark49152 (Oct 11, 2015)

Logiqx said:


> Quick update... I'm averaging about 3:20 after a month back on the 5x5. I'm a long way off the UK cut-off but it's good to be improving!


That's good progress. At our speed, for me two solves has been enough in comp. It feels like plenty of time solving, and five would be dragging it out, so I enjoy just shooting for single PBs. I did say that I was going to focus on 5x5 and try to give myself a better chance of an average at UKC, but realistically it will take many months of practice to get close to 2:30. I'll be happy to get two sub-3 solves, and a PB would be great.


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## newtonbase (Oct 11, 2015)

Logiqx said:


> Quick update... I'm averaging about 3:20 after a month back on the 5x5. I'm a long way off the UK cut-off but it's good to be improving!



Hard cut off is my target for the UKs. Same with 4x4. Neither are guaranteed.


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## EvilGnome6 (Oct 12, 2015)

Today was my first major timed session doing 3x3 OH and this 53.94s solve was one of the better ones. My mean of 32 solves was 1:11s. OH still feels very awkward for me but it took months just to be able to do more than a few simple turns without my hand cramping up. Cube used was a MoYu Mini WeiLong.


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## Jason Green (Oct 12, 2015)

EvilGnome6 said:


> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MQbdeE8K-LU
> 
> Today was my first major timed session doing 3x3 OH and this 53.94s solve was one of the better ones. My mean of 32 solves was 1:11s. OH still feels very awkward for me but it took months just to be able to do more than a few simple turns without my hand cramping up. Cube used was a MoYu Mini WeiLong.


I can't do it yet. I can finish F2L after a long time, but I can't do the algs for LL from memory well enough without the muscle memory of both hands. Maybe some day.


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## h2f (Oct 12, 2015)

Logiqx said:


> Congrats. That's a big PB looking at your previous results!



It looks like it is, but my previous offcial pb was made 6 month ago. I had a hard time during last comp 3 weeks ago and couldnt break that time. My times are around 1:20 - 1:50. During that home I had a lot of practice: 4bld means you practice all your targets with M2. 5 bld means the same. I did 5 and 9 cubes during mbld. I had a lot of luck I was qualified to final with 2:20 time - I was 12th and won with 13th only by 1 second. The last day I had only 3bld final so I could made a little memo practice and rest. I had a good time in final - got good concentration flow: no thinking about anything, just me, the cube and the solve. 




MarcelP said:


> Awesome!



Thanks.  



mark49152 said:


> Great result, congrats! How long for memo? How many targets?



I belive memo was between 40 - 50. My son said it was 45. If I remeber it well I had two brekings in cycle and it was 12 targets for edges and 8 for corners with twisted corner. I solve with M2 and comms, but for corners I did two of them with OP - there was case I dont like and I knew I couldnt figure out fast how to solve it with comm. And I was sitting next to Maskow.  Second solve was 1:41 and third was 1:41 too. Both with parity. I did 3rd solve with safe memo, because I wanted to make mo3. Ive checked corners twice and missed twisted corner and it was dnf. I hope I will mo3 next time.


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## MarcelP (Oct 12, 2015)

So who is the guy next to you in black? LOL


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## mark49152 (Oct 12, 2015)

h2f said:


> I belive memo was between 40 - 50. My son said it was 45.


Nice photos! That memo is fast. Any tips? I started learning some corner comms but have abandoned that this weekend after timing some splits. Memo 2 mins, edges 33 sec, corners 27. Memo is what I need to work on and there is a ton of room for easy improvement. Corner comms might save me what, 7-8 seconds, if I learn them fully? That's not worth it and I will just put my execution at risk by trying to use them now. Maybe I'll restart once my memo is sub-1 min.


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## Logiqx (Oct 12, 2015)

EvilGnome6 said:


> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MQbdeE8K-LU
> 
> Today was my first major timed session doing 3x3 OH and this 53.94s solve was one of the better ones. My mean of 32 solves was 1:11s. OH still feels very awkward for me but it took months just to be able to do more than a few simple turns without my hand cramping up. Cube used was a MoYu Mini WeiLong.



Cool. Nice to see someone else in this thread doing OH practice. 

Your times will get faster pretty quickly as a result of improvements to your turning.

I also use the Mini WeiLong V2 for OH. It's a really awesome cube of OH!


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## h2f (Oct 12, 2015)

MarcelP said:


> So who is the guy next to you in black? LOL



Magician.  He's really great guy.



mark49152 said:


> Nice photos! That memo is fast. Any tips?



I think - nothing but practice. I try to make 30 minutes practice session every day. I dont really know how I dropped my times down. Once memo was around 4-5 minutes and after few months it was around 1:30 -2:00. Next, around 1 minute. I did few practice sessions for corners only - memorize last, execute first - so I figure out it will help.

I think maybe mbld helps a lot. When you memorize few cubes (5, 7 or 9) in the same time, some letter pairs and words become more natural and you must figure out nice images for hard letter pairs. For example in Polish it is hard to make good word for OI, OU, UO... etc. so I had to change it into strange words and images which are not obvious. And your mind during mblds gets used to natural flow to memorize (it is hard for me to translate what i think about it). But I'm not advanced blinder so maybe I'm wrong.

And I agree - memo time is a first stage you can drop down to drop your whole time down.


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## moralsh (Oct 12, 2015)

I'm finally back home after my 3 day Spanish nationals in Granada, a rally nice experience.

It's been a good enough comp for me, here's what I did:

Day 1:

Little, I did a 6x6 solve after not touching a 6x6 or 7x7 for 5-6 months hoping to avoid OLL parity as I have it completely mechanized on 4x4 and I was afraid I was going to fail it. No luck, I found it and fortunately I solved it doing the parity I use on 5x5 for swapped wings, it was a 7:25, slow but good for me.

I also tried a 5 multi attempt and it was horrible, only 1 cube solved, back to school for MultiBLD before I compete again.

Skewb: good single (11.15), bad average (19.53). That was it for the day

Day 2:

Very busy day, with overall bad results, let's see

FMC: First and second of the 3 DNFs, promising starts that led to nowhere
2x2: 8.62 average with 7.00 single, bad but good enough to make it to the second round later that day which was quite similar (8.65 Avg, 6.72 single)
3x3 Blind: I did an extra memo attempt to be sure, it was 2:35 which would have not been enough to make it to the finals, I then did an 1:50.21 (with a ten second pause) which is my new official PB, and tried to get the mean but failed because I forgot to orient 2 corners with a double sune.
3x3OH: disastrous, I was doing sub 40 averages after lunch and I ended doing a 53 Avg, I nearly missed the 1 minute cut off. no look ahead and botched LL 
5x5: my other bad attempt of the day, I bested my PB with a 3:03, but I had hoped for a sub 2:50 so I wasn't happy
4x4Blind: Bad first attempt, not even close
3x3x3: spent all the round looking for my look ahead with no luck, 25 average with a 22 single, Eww 

Day 3:

A good day
Started early with 4x4 first round, a 1:30 cut off that I passed with a 1:26 single but a poor average (1:31). Later that day, I got better singles (two 1:13) and better average (1:23) on the second round, I'm happy with those.
3x3 OH second round: 47 average with a 42 single, my poorest event in the nationals, I was hopping to break PBs by a lot and didn't even get close.
4x4 Blind: Good safe memo, did centers ok, but messed it up during edges execution.
3x3 Second round: A good average (20.40) in which my worst solve was a 21.36 and an awesome 15.33 full step single which I'll try to reconstruct when I get the scramble, sub 10 F2L and my average Last layer. 

3x3 Blind final: 1:51, followed by a 2:06 in which I did a non existent parity (was off by that), and 2:03 single. Again missed the average by something stupid but I was quite happy with the round nevertheless, placed 8th which was my best result at the comp.

Grzegorz, nice 3BLD and 4BLD singles, I'll re read the thread later today, just in case I've missed anything else,


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## MarcelP (Oct 12, 2015)

moralsh said:


> an awesome 15.33 full step single which I'll try to reconstruct when I get the scramble,



Wow! Very nice Raoul! That's a pretty sweet single PB  Looks like the old people have to step it up a bit now..


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## h2f (Oct 12, 2015)

moralsh said:


> Gregorz, nice 3BLD and 4BLD singles, I'll re read the thread later today, just in case I've missed anything else,



Raul, your times are really great. Nice single and ao5 in second round.


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## EvilGnome6 (Oct 12, 2015)

Logiqx said:


> Cool. Nice to see someone else in this thread doing OH practice.
> 
> Your times will get faster pretty quickly as a result of improvements to your turning.
> 
> I also use the Mini WeiLong V2 for OH. It's a really awesome cube of OH!



Thanks!

Right now the cube rotations are horrible. Do you learn to reduce those over time? I do feel like OH practice is forcing me to be more efficient with my cross and F2L.

So far I've also tried the Mini ShuangRen and AoLong but I like the WeiLong best for OH so far. I'll probably try the ZhanChi next.


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## mafergut (Oct 12, 2015)

EvilGnome6 said:


> Thanks!
> 
> Right now the cube rotations are horrible. Do you learn to reduce those over time? I do feel like OH practice is forcing me to be more efficient with my cross and F2L.
> 
> So far I've also tried the Mini ShuangRen and AoLong but I like the WeiLong best for OH so far. I'll probably try the ZhanChi next.



I think we have a very similar OH style. I just seem to have practiced a bit more and, it's true, your times will get faster as soon as you gain dexterity and strength in your left hand.
I just was inspired by you and decided to record some solves. At the end of the session I got what could be considered my PB Ao5 if you are a bit generous with my 4th solve which should probably be a DNF or at least a +2. With the +2 it still would be my PB Ao5.

I will cut these 5 solves (4, in fact as there is another DNF in between), edit the video and upload it as soon as I can for all of you to criticise (and have a good laugh with the DNF and most of the PLLs' 2-3 last moves, where I see the time is decent, try to push it and fail miserably every time. The 1st solve should have been easy a 35 or so. I'm sure, without cam it would have been sub-40, which would have been great for me at this stage.

Here is the Ao5:

Generated By csTimer on 2015-10-12
avg of 5: 40.58

Time List:
1. 39.89 R2 U' F2 D' L2 U2 R2 F2 L2 R' B' L F2 D R2 U R' U L2 
2. 39.86 R2 B' F2 U2 R2 U2 L2 B2 D2 B' U2 R D' F U L2 U R' D B 
3. (DNF(13.80)) D2 B2 D R2 D2 L2 B2 D' B2 D2 U' R' D' B2 D R2 F' L U R2 F' 
4. (39.49) U2 L2 F U2 F L2 U2 B2 D2 U F L U' L2 U2 L2 B F2 U 
5. 42.00 U2 F2 L2 U L2 F2 L2 D2 B2 U' B L' B D' L R F' U B2 L'


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## Logiqx (Oct 12, 2015)

EvilGnome6 said:


> Right now the cube rotations are horrible. Do you learn to reduce those over time? I do feel like OH practice is forcing me to be more efficient with my cross and F2L.



You'll naturally start to do things which suit OH solves. I'm assuming you can already recognise "good/bad" edges based on their stickers. Use of empty slots and 2-gen solutions can avoid unnecessary rotations (i.e. solving an F2L pair with a "good" edge without any rotations).

I found that it took me a while to get used to OH solving and I needed to watch what I was doing until I developed muscle memory for the F2L cases. Once you don't have to think about what you are doing for each pair you'll find the extra time during OH solves gives you better look-ahead. That will enable you to select the "best" F2L pair and postpone any rotations until later, hopefully meaning you'll do less of them during the solve.

Edit: Planning the cross is even more critical during OH. Move optimal solutions may be slower than longer but more ergonomic solutions.


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## mafergut (Oct 12, 2015)

Logiqx said:


> You'll naturally start to do things which suit OH solves. I'm assuming you can already recognise "good/bad" edges based on their stickers. Use of empty slots and 2-gen solutions can avoid unnecessary rotations (i.e. solving an F2L pair with a "good" edge without any rotations).
> 
> I found that it took me a while to get used to OH solving and I needed to watch what I was doing until I developed muscle memory for the F2L cases. Once you don't have to think about what you are doing for each pair you'll find the extra time during OH solves gives you better look-ahead. That will enable you to select the "best" F2L pair and postpone any rotations until later, hopefully meaning you'll do less of them during the solve.
> 
> Edit: Planning the cross is even more critical during OH. Move optimal solutions may be slower than longer but more ergonomic solutions.



I need to learn so much in all those areas that you just mentioned...

Well, the video finally went up. Here it is:


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## Lid (Oct 12, 2015)

mafergut said:


> I need to learn so much in all those areas that you just mentioned...



OH is fun 

Timed all my OH PLLs tonight:

You can tell I really hate Fperms 



Spoiler: OH PLL times





```
Mean: 3.12

Aa 2.71
Ab 2.54
E 3.72
Ua 1.68
Ub 1.77
Z 2.39
H 3.46
Ja 2.82
Jb 2.88
Ra 3.10
Rb 3.13
F 4.28
T 3.50
Ga 3.42
Gb 3.13
Gc 3.46
Gd 2.96
V 4.07
Na 3.57
Nb 4.03
Y 2.95
```




And finally the stickerless bright AoFu GT is availible, which means I can get back to 7x7 real soon. (Will get even more stickerless puzzles at the same time, QiYi Pyraminx, YuXin 5x5.)


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## newtonbase (Oct 12, 2015)

PLLs put me right off OH. Whenever I've had a go I end up reverting to 2H for anything outside Us and As.


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## Logiqx (Oct 12, 2015)

Lid said:


> OH is fun
> 
> Timed all my OH PLLs tonight:
> 
> You can tell I really hate Fperms



I've never timed mine but I'd say the proportions are similar to yours... yeah, F-perm is nasty!



newtonbase said:


> PLLs put me right off OH. Whenever I've had a go I end up reverting to 2H for anything outside Us and As.



Just go for 2-look PLL if you already know the U's and A. The RU Z-perm is pretty nice to execute and RU H-perm is long but easy to remember.


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## newtonbase (Oct 12, 2015)

Logiqx said:


> Just go for 2-look PLL if you already know the U's and A. The RU Z-perm is pretty nice to execute and RU H-perm is long but easy to remember.



I could do with a new Z anyway. If there's one PLL I mess up in the heat of the moment it's that one. Maybe OH could be my post UKs project.


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## mark49152 (Oct 13, 2015)

Raul, nice single and nice 3BLD times - congrats!



h2f said:


> And I agree - memo time is a first stage you can drop down to drop your whole time down.


A few pages ago in this thread, someone (Raul?) suggested timing just tracing cycles without trying to memo anything. I've done that again since and have come down from about 1:20 to 1:00 with practice. That's still pretty shocking though, being more than half my memo time (~2:00) and I figure that it is perhaps a good thing to practise more. My aim is to trace cycles in 30 secs. That's still 1.5 secs per piece and it seems reasonable to achieve that... doesn't it?


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## EvilGnome6 (Oct 13, 2015)

mafergut said:


> I need to learn so much in all those areas that you just mentioned...
> 
> Well, the video finally went up. Here it is:



Nice. We do have similar OH styles. I think we both have plenty of room for improvement and will do so over time.


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## h2f (Oct 13, 2015)

mark49152 said:


> A few pages ago in this thread, someone (Raul?) suggested timing just tracing cycles without trying to memo anything. I've done that again since and have come down from about 1:20 to 1:00 with practice. That's still pretty shocking though, being more than half my memo time (~2:00) and I figure that it is perhaps a good thing to practise more. My aim is to trace cycles in 30 secs. That's still 1.5 secs per piece and it seems reasonable to achieve that... doesn't it?



I think you are right - pracitcing edges or corners without memo is a good way to practice blind events. But doing it without memo means you need time to recognize stickers. It takes time and make it a little slower than execution in full blind solve. In blind solve the look forward is very important - when you got it, your solve is fluent and natural and you got better time. For example: I did now some times without memo and they were between 32 and 47 (with some mistakes). With memo I got 31 - first solve, 28 next and 21 - last. The last one had 12 targets. This is beceasue i didnt had to recognize stickers. Just execution.

But now I do the same learing Turbo. I do sighted edges practice to get some experience in it - I wann switch to full comms now with UF as a buffer. Maskow and Jałocha suggested that move and that buffer. So I think it is usefull though it doesnt contains look forward which is similiar to look ahead in normal solve.


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## moralsh (Oct 13, 2015)

Yes Mark, I think it was me who said that. the piece-letter-next piece cycle has to be very fast and very precise, the faster your memo is the easier the solve will get.

For me the problem is execution, I can memo sub 50 90-95% of the time and sub 40 half of the times, my execution sucks and my solves end being 1:40-2:15 most of the time, I need to practice a lot, I guess.


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## mark49152 (Oct 13, 2015)

h2f said:


> But doing it without memo means you need time to recognize stickers. It takes time and make it a little slower than execution in full blind solve.


I mean tracing the cycles only, including recognizing stickers. So count targets, count breaks, find new cycles, find flipped, twisted and solved pieces. No memo, no execution.



moralsh said:


> For me the problem is execution, I can memo sub 50 90-95% of the time and sub 40 half of the times, my execution sucks and my solves end being 1:40-2:15 most of the time, I need to practice a lot, I guess.


Given that it take me a minute just to find all the pieces, I cannot understand how Maskow and Ollie and others finish memo in 8 seconds. You guys are impressive, those guys are amazing


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## h2f (Oct 13, 2015)

mark49152 said:


> I mean tracing the cycles only, including recognizing stickers. So count targets, count breaks, find new cycles, find flipped, twisted and solved pieces. No memo, no execution.
> 
> 
> Given that it take me a minute just to find all the pieces, I cannot understand how Maskow and Ollie and others finish memo in 8 seconds. You guys are impressive, those guys are amazing



Ah, I've misunderstood your post. 

How to be fast - belive me or not, I know I can do memo under 20 seconds. And I know everyone can do it - it is the same like being sub-20. It's only a matter of practice. At the moment I can be sub 30 with memo after some practice but a year ago my memo was around 3 minutes. I did nothing but solves only solves...


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## mark49152 (Oct 13, 2015)

h2f said:


> I did nothing but solves only solves...


Some people say that works for them, but personally I don't improve unless I'm pushing myself somehow. That applies to all events. On 3x3 if I just solve, I settle into a way of solving and will do 1000s of solves at steady average. To improve, I need to push limits or force myself to try new techniques, which is why I find targeted practice useful.

I'm finding BLD hard because what does "pushing" mean with memo? It's kind of hard to force your memory to work faster. I can pull down the blindfold earlier and skip another review, but at the end of the solve, it's success or fail, and if I ended memo too early I don't learn anything from that. I guess with memory it does just come down to doing it 1000s of times.

When I'm looking for something to push faster during memo, it's definitely the tracing. I can consciously try to trace around the cube as fast as I can, and if I don't, I lapse back to a relaxed pace, which is no good for improvement.


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## mafergut (Oct 13, 2015)

EvilGnome6 said:


> Nice. We do have similar OH styles. I think we both have plenty of room for improvement and will do so over time.



I hope so. I have come to the idea that for me "nice times" is between 2 and 3 times the "fast guys". E.g.: for 3x3, fast guys 6-7 seconds, me 12-18 up to 21 seconds. A similar comparison for the two events I'm trying to improve right now would yield:

OH
Fast guys: I'd say 11-12 seconds
Me: 22-33 up to 36. Right now my PB Ao100 is just under 49 so a target average of around 33-35 seconds would be achievable? With some sub-25 solves here and there.

4x4
Fast guys: 24-28 seconds
Me: 50 - 1:30. Right now my times are absolute cr**p, well over 2 minutes. So lots of room for improvement here as well.

By the way, I keep not improving at 3x3 but I guess it is because the more diverse events I practise now and having less time to actually practise anything, but this weekend I had time to do a relaxed Ao100 and got mixed but not bad results. 19.10 Ao50 just 2 tenths off my PB and several full-step 14.xx and 15.xx. Definitely changed to Yueying as my main now.


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## EvilGnome6 (Oct 13, 2015)

mafergut said:


> Definitely changed to Yueying as my main now.



I was wondering if you had finally settled on a new main. I ended up switching to the YuXin 3x3.


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## mafergut (Oct 13, 2015)

EvilGnome6 said:


> I was wondering if you had finally settled on a new main. I ended up switching to the YuXin 3x3.



I was also trying the Yuxin 3x3 this weekend. I love how smooth it can be and at times, PLLs seem to flow better than with anything else that I have... that is, when I'm "in synch" with the cube. But as soon as I start to push the boundaries I start to lock up or, worse, turn in undesired axes or get a hard rebound from the cube that stops the flow. In the end my times are very inconsistent with it. I'm sure at least half of it is to be blamed on the colour scheme (I have not re-stickered it yet) but the other half is my turning style not going along well with the cube. I'm sure I could adapt if I had to but right now I feel more comfortable with other cubes.

In fact, I did an Ao50 with the Yuxin and got like 21.5x. After that I did an Ao100 with the Yueying and got a 19.10 Ao50 and 20.51 Ao100. 'Nuff said. But, I realize that the Yuxin is a great cube, if you can manage to come to terms with it. I will keep trying it from time to time, and I'll order a sticker set for it.


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## chtiger (Oct 13, 2015)

mark49152 said:


> A few pages ago in this thread, someone (Raul?) suggested timing just tracing cycles without trying to memo anything. I've done that again since and have come down from about 1:20 to 1:00 with practice. That's still pretty shocking though, being more than half my memo time (~2:00) and I figure that it is perhaps a good thing to practise more. My aim is to trace cycles in 30 secs. That's still 1.5 secs per piece and it seems reasonable to achieve that... doesn't it?


I asked a while back how long it took similar level BLDers to trace the pieces like that. That's probably what you were thinking of. I know the best do it (and remember it) in under 10 seconds, so I was wondering how long it took us regular folks. I'm going to do some target practice on tracing the pieces when I get back to practicing 3BLD.


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## mark49152 (Oct 14, 2015)

chtiger said:


> I asked a while back how long it took similar level BLDers to trace the pieces like that. That's probably what you were thinking of. I know the best do it (and remember it) in under 10 seconds, so I was wondering how long it took us regular folks. I'm going to do some target practice on tracing the pieces when I get back to practicing 3BLD.


Yes probably, I was too lazy to search back through the thread. It's great practice so thanks for the suggestion, or just planting the idea . After a couple more (short) sessions I just got an ao12 of 51.48, so pretty fast improvement, and I think it's already helping my BLD. Last BLD session was 6/10 with 2:55 mean. Only my second sub-3 session.


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## MarcelP (Oct 14, 2015)

Look at that wicket scramble.. yeah first solve of the day..  

1. 13.82 L2 F2 U2 L2 U F2 U L2 U' L' F' R2 B' D' R2 B U2 R2

I did:
L' F' U L' U' F R2 // XCROSS
R U' R' U R U' R' //2ND
R´ U R y U R U R' //3RD
L U L' U L U' L' //4TH
U' ... // OLL
U2 ... F PERM


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## mark49152 (Oct 14, 2015)

MarcelP said:


> Look at that wicket scramble.. yeah first solve of the day..


Nice... Imagine if you had been warmed up!


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## Jason Green (Oct 14, 2015)

MarcelP said:


> Look at that wicket scramble.. yeah first solve of the day..
> 
> 1. 13.82 L2 F2 U2 L2 U F2 U L2 U' L' F' R2 B' D' R2 B U2 R2
> 
> ...


Awesome! Nice job!


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## h2f (Oct 14, 2015)

mark49152 said:


> Some people say that works for them, but personally I don't improve unless I'm pushing myself somehow. That applies to all events. On 3x3 if I just solve, I settle into a way of solving and will do 1000s of solves at steady average. To improve, I need to push limits or force myself to try new techniques, which is why I find targeted practice useful.
> 
> I'm finding BLD hard because what does "pushing" mean with memo? It's kind of hard to force your memory to work faster. I can pull down the blindfold earlier and skip another review, but at the end of the solve, it's success or fail, and if I ended memo too early I don't learn anything from that. I guess with memory it does just come down to doing it 1000s of times.
> 
> When I'm looking for something to push faster during memo, it's definitely the tracing. I can consciously try to trace around the cube as fast as I can, and if I don't, I lapse back to a relaxed pace, which is no good for improvement.



It may work. I like the idea of tracing pieces - I thought about it but never tried.


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## MarcelP (Oct 15, 2015)

Jason Green said:


> Awesome! Nice job!



Thank you sir.. 



mark49152 said:


> Nice... Imagine if you had been warmed up!



Maybe.  I think if I practice this scramble a few times I could get a sub 10. Still it was a pretty cool scramble.. and full step 13's are quite rare for me.


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## mafergut (Oct 15, 2015)

MarcelP said:


> I think if I practice this scramble a few times I could get a sub 10. Still it was a pretty cool scramble.. and full step 13's are quite rare for me.



Congratulations!!! I don't think I would have done so well in that scramble. Seeing two formed pairs always makes me want to find a way to preserve both and, as a consequence I end up overinspecting and / or messing up the cross completely. You managed to decide correctly and sacrificed a pair to easily preserve the other.

Regarding full-step 13.xx, I was a some days ago complaining that I was not progressing lately and my best full-step in the whole last month was a 14.5x or something but two days ago I had a very nice strike of good solves, ending in a new Ao50 PB and two full-step 13.xx... both in the same Ao5!!! (which is also my new PB Ao5) and both of them the exact same time: 13.67. I will try to reconstruct and post here later today if I can.

I also practice easy scrambles from other people sometimes to see what I can get. My "PB" for this kind of exercise is an 8.28 on this incredible scramble. I got a 12.38 at 1st try, 9.48 at 2nd try and then 8.28 at 3rd try:

D' U' B2 L2 U D F' B' D B' D' L2 U' D2 B' U2 B' R' U' L2 F2 L2 F' D2 L'

1 move XCross + ready made pair???????????

y' // Inspection
D' // Cross + F2L-1
U R U' R' // F2L-2
y' R U2 R' U R U' R' // F2L-3
y' R U2 R' U2 R U' R' // F2-4
U H-OLL
U G-perm

What can you guys get on this scramble? With this or different execution if you can find something better.


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## cubesp (Oct 15, 2015)

Ok. The time is arrived...
On Sunday my baptism of fire 222 333 and 444 (444 is just for trying stackmat ). 
Usual old cuber situations... Burst in job activities, son's birthday... 
Actually just an avg12 333 and a few 444 solve... 
Save a prayer for me!!!


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## muchacho (Oct 15, 2015)

I suppose they'll let you practice with the stackmat before competing, especially since this will be your first competition.

Good luck! Any goals?

Are you the only one of your family competing? competitions would be even better if you make any of them into cubing.


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## MarcelP (Oct 15, 2015)

cubesp said:


> Ok. The time is arrived...
> On Sunday my baptism of fire 222 333 and 444 (444 is just for trying stackmat ).
> Usual old cuber situations... Burst in job activities, son's birthday...
> Actually just an avg12 333 and a few 444 solve...
> Save a prayer for me!!!



Good luck! Enjoy yourself and try not to focus on results.



mafergut said:


> D' U' B2 L2 U D F' B' D B' D' L2 U' D2 B' U2 B' R' U' L2 F2 L2 F' D2 L'
> 
> 1 move XCross + ready made pair???????????
> 
> What can you guys get on this scramble? With this or different execution if you can find something better.


Coolio! I love these challenges.. I am at work now, but tonight or tomorrow morning I will try this scramble untill I can sub 10 it


----------



## Isaac Lai (Oct 15, 2015)

mafergut said:


> Congratulations!!! I don't think I would have done so well in that scramble. Seeing two formed pairs always makes me want to find a way to preserve both and, as a consequence I end up overinspecting and / or messing up the cross completely. You managed to decide correctly and sacrificed a pair to easily preserve the other.
> 
> Regarding full-step 13.xx, I was a some days ago complaining that I was not progressing lately and my best full-step in the whole last month was a 14.5x or something but two days ago I had a very nice strike of good solves, ending in a new Ao50 PB and two full-step 13.xx... both in the same Ao5!!! (which is also my new PB Ao5) and both of them the exact same time: 13.67. I will try to reconstruct and post here later today if I can.
> 
> ...



Lol I was about to say that this scramble was oddly familiar after trying it (1 move XCross)... then I realised it WAS my scramble. It was my PB for some time (9.96). When I tried it this time, I got 8.86 on my first try (different solution, same as yours).



TDM said:


> lol 5.18 first attempt
> 
> x2 y' // Inspection
> [D' // X-cross (1/1)
> ...





AndersB said:


> Lol, got 4.65 on that, first try xD
> 
> y' D' U2 R U2 R' // X-cross and F2L 2
> U L' U L U' y' L' U L // F2L 3
> ...



Alternative solutions that I found


----------



## mafergut (Oct 15, 2015)

Isaac Lai said:


> Lol I was about to say that this scramble was oddly familiar after trying it (1 move XCross)... then I realised it WAS my scramble. It was my PB for some time (9.96). When I tried it this time, I got 8.86 on my first try (different solution, same as yours).



hehehe, I didn't remember it was yours, just that I saw it on the Lucky / weird... scrambles thread. Nice alternative solutions, they make me want to learn VHLS and COLL.


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## cubesp (Oct 15, 2015)

muchacho said:


> I suppose they'll let you practice with the stackmat before competing, especially since this will be your first competition.
> 
> Good luck! Any goals?
> 
> Are you the only one of your family competing? competitions would be even better if you make any of them into cubing.



Thanks!!

No, I'll be just me competing. 
Beginner goals:
222: sub15
333: sub35
444: just do it, I hope sub time limit ... 3 minutes !!


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## cubesp (Oct 15, 2015)

MarcelP said:


> Good luck! Enjoy yourself and try not to focus on results.



Thanks!!

one of the goals is "hiding myself in the cubers fathers group till stackmat time" !!


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## mark49152 (Oct 15, 2015)

cubesp said:


> one of the goals is "hiding myself in the cubers fathers group till stackmat time" !!


LOL... I gotta say, at the three comps I've been to so far, I've found myself having part admiration, part sympathy for the little groups of parents that sit there all day for two looong days with their iPads and books, watching their offspring indulge in their passion. It makes me wonder what my daughter will have me watching in a few years


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## Jason Green (Oct 15, 2015)

mark49152 said:


> LOL... I gotta say, at the three comps I've been to so far, I've found myself having part admiration, part sympathy for the little groups of parents that sit there all day for two looong days with their iPads and books, watching their offspring indulge in their passion. It makes me wonder what my daughter will have me watching in a few years


I hope my boys have me watching cubing or bowling.  I'm sure they'd be way better than me!


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## Jason Green (Oct 15, 2015)

cubesp said:


> Thanks!!
> 
> one of the goals is "hiding myself in the cubers fathers group till stackmat time" !!


I probably couldn't hide, I'd be wanting to practice or get more grown ups into cubing. [emoji14]


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## moralsh (Oct 15, 2015)

mark49152 said:


> LOL... I gotta say, at the three comps I've been to so far, I've found myself having part admiration, part sympathy for the little groups of parents that sit there all day for two looong days with their iPads and books, watching their offspring indulge in their passion. It makes me wonder what my daughter will have me watching in a few years



You'll probably add annoyance to that list of feelings if you ever organice, most parents are ok and some even help out but some others expect that the center of the universe for everybody is their son/daughter and keep asking questions they should know better than you like "What is the next event my son competes in?" or that are posted elsewhere like anything regarding timetable or just anything that was clearly stated in the emails prior to competition.

We have some grouo of oldies in spanish copetitions, and we usually mix with anyone mature enough to not be annoying, and if the conversations are cubing related, pretty much with everyone.


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## MarcelP (Oct 15, 2015)

mafergut said:


> What can you guys get on this scramble? With this or different execution if you can find something better.



I had EXACT same solution.
12.87 first try
10.14 second
9.37 3rd


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## mafergut (Oct 15, 2015)

MarcelP said:


> I had EXACT same solution.
> 12.87 first try
> 10.14 second
> 9.37 3rd



Nice scramble, isn't it? Talking about good scrambles... Have you guys ever had a LL skip? I must have speedsolved a rubik's cube at least a hundred thousand times and I have NEVER had a LL skip


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## Jason Green (Oct 15, 2015)

MarcelP said:


> I had EXACT same solution.
> 12.87 first try
> 10.14 second
> 9.37 3rd



This was fun, I've never looked up or tried easy scrambles, or even the same scramble more than once. I tried it 3 times I think, and the last time I got down to 16.x something.  I guess that's about as fast as my hands can go right now, because I pretty much knew what I was doing by that try.

BTW, I had another PB of 20.38 last night! I knew it was fast and got excited that I might actually break 20. After doing this easy scramble 3 times and only getting 16, I guess it tells me my look ahead / pauses are improving.


----------



## Jason Green (Oct 16, 2015)

mafergut said:


> Nice scramble, isn't it? Talking about good scrambles... Have you guys ever had a LL skip? I must have speedsolved a rubik's cube at least a hundred thousand times and I have NEVER had a LL skip


I'm pretty sure I've had a LL skip, but not 100% sure. Anytime I get an OLL or PLL skip it kinda shocks me, and my recognition is probably just as slow as what case I have.


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## h2f (Oct 16, 2015)

If you like a little boring movies - my 4bld solve.


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## MarcelP (Oct 16, 2015)

mafergut said:


> Have you guys ever had a LL skip? I must have speedsolved a rubik's cube at least a hundred thousand times and I have NEVER had a LL skip



No, never.. 



Jason Green said:


> This was fun, I've never looked up or tried easy scrambles, or even the same scramble more than once. I tried it 3 times I think, and the last time I got down to 16.x something.  I guess that's about as fast as my hands can go right now, because I pretty much knew what I was doing by that try.
> 
> BTW, I had another PB of 20.38 last night! I knew it was fast and got excited that I might actually break 20. After doing this easy scramble 3 times and only getting 16, I guess it tells me my look ahead / pauses are improving.



I tried some scrambles more than 50 times a year or two years back. It helped me in becoming more 'handy' with the cube. It is real good practice. And then I mostly ended up 12 - 13 - 14 seconds at a scramble,,


h2f said:


> If you like a little boring movies - my 4bld solve.
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R1O2QR5DZgA



Great reaction! Good job man. I never could (and woudl) do that.


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## Jason Green (Oct 16, 2015)

h2f said:


> If you like a little boring movies - my 4bld solve.
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R1O2QR5DZgA


Impressive. I just watched some intro videos on 3bld tonight. Mainly out of curiosity, I'm not going to learn it anytime soon if ever. But I understand the concepts. 

I guess I must not have had a LL skip probably, since I haven't been cubing a lot for a real long time. Maybe it was an easy OLL and PLL skip that made me think so.


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## h2f (Oct 16, 2015)

Jason Green said:


> I guess I must not have had a LL skip probably, since I haven't been cubing a lot for a real long time. Maybe it was an easy OLL and PLL skip that made me think so.



I got a lot of LL skips in the last time but they were PLL skips. I dont remember if I ever had LL skip.


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## muchacho (Oct 16, 2015)

If someday I get a LL skip I'm sure I will not forget it, being a Roux solver that may have very little probabilities.

I think I'm going to try solving the same scramble a few times, even if it's like cheating it must feel good to solve a cube a few seconds faster than your PB.

I used to not save DNF solves on the Prisma Puzzle Timer so I could easily see my averages, but I decided to just stop doing DNFs, I think this is my first real Ao100 on 3x3: 33.58 seconds


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## mafergut (Oct 16, 2015)

h2f said:


> If you like a little boring movies - my 4bld solve.
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R1O2QR5DZgA



I'm without words. Any speedcubing feats we can brag about are just nothing compared with big cube BLD solving. I'm impressed, sir! You have my admiration. And I know what I'm talking about, as I was able to succeed at 3BLD once or maybe twice with Old Pochman. It took me like 15-20 minutes or even more (and at least 10-15 failures) and I decided it was too much for my brain so I can only glimpse at the challenge of doing a 4BLD. One thing is reading you about it in the forum but a very different thing is seeing the video. My most sincere congratulations! Not boring at all, if you ask me.


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## muchacho (Oct 16, 2015)

h2f said:


> If you like a little boring movies - my 4bld solve.
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R1O2QR5DZgA



Not that I've seen the full video, but not boring at all, really impressive. I think I'll try to learn bld in the future.


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## Schmidt (Oct 16, 2015)

mafergut said:


> Nice scramble, isn't it? Talking about good scrambles... Have you guys ever had a LL skip? I must have speedsolved a rubik's cube at least a hundred thousand times and I have NEVER had a LL skip


I've had 3 LL skips! Search this thread for more info


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## MarcelP (Oct 16, 2015)

I had a another nice sub 18 Ao12.... if it wasn't for my batteries to die in solve 11.. 

A nice 13 in there too (Blue cross at 2.50)... I think I should start consider myself sub 19.. 


Spoiler



1. 18.18 B' R B2 L U B U R2 D L2 R' B' F2 L R2 F' R2 L U2 B2 L2 B L2 R F2
2. 17.81 R2 L' B2 R2 U D B2 D B2 L' D' B2 L' R' D' U' B2 U D L2 U D L2 F B2
3. 20.76 F L' D R2 D2 F' U' L2 F2 D R' B L' R D' F2 D F' R' L B2 U R' D' L2
4. 24.67 R U2 R2 U2 B L R2 F U F2 R2 F' L2 D2 L2 U2 D' R2 F' D F2 B' L2 F2 R'
5. *13.72 * F2 U D' F2 L R F D U2 R' L D L' B U2 D B' R B2 R F2 B D2 B D'
6. 17.72 U2 D R2 D' U2 F2 D' U2 L2 B2 L R' F2 B2 R2 L2 F2 U2 B2 U F2 R D2 F2 B
7. 17.58 F L B' U' B F R' U L F2 D' U' B D F' D B2 L F2 L' B F L2 F U2
8. 18.62 R2 D' B R' D2 F U L R U2 B2 R' B R B2 U B' D2 B L2 F2 R' D2 F2 D'
9. 18.74 L D' B2 L D2 B R B F' R' U' R2 L2 F R' F B D' L D' R2 B' D' B' L2
10. 17.73 U2 B' L' F2 R' B2 D' U2 F D2 R B2 R D' B R' B U F' L' U' B' F' L F'


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## h2f (Oct 16, 2015)

Jason Green said:


> Impressive. I just watched some intro videos on 3bld tonight. Mainly out of curiosity, I'm not going to learn it anytime soon if ever. But I understand the concepts.





MarcelP said:


> Great reaction! Good job man. I never could (and woudl) do that.





mafergut said:


> I'm without words. Any speedcubing feats we can brag about are just nothing compared with big cube BLD solving. I'm impressed, sir! You have my admiration. And I know what I'm talking about, as I was able to succeed at 3BLD once or maybe twice with Old Pochman. It took me like 15-20 minutes or even more (and at least 10-15 failures) and I decided it was too much for my brain so I can only glimpse at the challenge of doing a 4BLD. One thing is reading you about it in the forum but a very different thing is seeing the video. My most sincere congratulations! Not boring at all, if you ask me.





muchacho said:


> Not that I've seen the full video, but not boring at all, really impressive. I think I'll try to learn bld in the future.



Well, Im glad to read this. My ego grows up, etc. I've prepared multiblindfolded too. It's 4/5 from the first day. I gave some speed to video. My son is holding a sheet (and looks tired and bored).  The attempt started a few minutes before 20:00.


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## muchacho (Oct 16, 2015)

Well, for a judge it must be quite boring to wait 20 minutes in an almost silent room with nothing to do or see, I would probably had fallen asleep. And then holding the paper for 10 minutes may not be a pleasant task. I wouldn't volunteer to be a judge for a 1 hour attempt


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## moralsh (Oct 16, 2015)

muchacho said:


> Well, for a judge it must be quite boring to wait 20 minutes in an almost silent room with nothing to do or see, I would probably had fallen asleep. And then holding the paper for 10 minutes may not be a pleasant task. I wouldn't volunteer to be a judge for a 1 hour attempt



it's not that bad, In the memo phase you can check your phone or even cube a bit (at least I don't care if my judge cubes) and in the solving phase of you are checking how the solve is going, it doesn't get boring.

H2f, I tried the same as you, 4Bld and a 5 cubes multi, but with way worse results, guess I need to keep practicing  I need to get faster on my center comms, as I think take more than half of the execution because I don't have the set ups muscle-memorized and have to think it every time.


----------



## Logiqx (Oct 16, 2015)

mafergut said:


> Nice scramble, isn't it? Talking about good scrambles... Have you guys ever had a LL skip? I must have speedsolved a rubik's cube at least a hundred thousand times and I have NEVER had a LL skip



Yes. I've had two LL skips; once untimed and once timed (14s).

I've also had 3 cross skips which are approximately half the probability of a LL skip for a CN solver.


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## h2f (Oct 16, 2015)

moralsh said:


> it's not that bad, In the memo phase you can check your phone or even cube a bit (at least I don't care if my judge cubes) and in the solving phase of you are checking how the solve is going, it doesn't get boring.
> 
> H2f, I tried the same as you, 4Bld and a 5 cubes multi, but with way worse results, guess I need to keep practicing  I need to get faster on my center comms, as I think take more than half of the execution because I don't have the set ups muscle-memorized and have to think it every time.



Nice to hear you did 4bld on the comp. You had a better time than mine.  

On the earlier comp I tried 7 cubes - it was 5/7. And the day after I did 4/9. I need practice multi too. My pb is 7/7 in around 40 minutes. Maskow told me how he did practice multi. He made 1 attempt per day in the rythm: first day try, second day - try, 3rd day - rest, 4th day - try, 5th try, 6 and 7th day - rest. And he was adding as much cubes as possible to make them in 1 hour limit. 

On the earlier comp - 3 weeks before Nats - I was trying 4bld but failed all attemptes. During last 3 weeks I made maybe 6-7 attempts and It worked on Nats. 

Now I make a break from big bld but Im gonna back to 5bld in two weeks and make one attempt per day. At the moment I switching to Turbo and comms. I was talking wiht Jałocha if UF buffer is better than DF for comms it he said definietly it is. After one day of solving with Turbo and some comms I must say he was right.

Marcel - nice ao12 - I did only review of it but looks great. I'm gonna to watch it later.


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## moralsh (Oct 16, 2015)

Hehe, I'm also learning turbo because you said Grzegorz said it was better, and I'm liking it. I definitely need to step up my bld and will also try to practice 5BLD, at least centers.

My next comp should be by February next year, let's see what we can do by then


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## mafergut (Oct 16, 2015)

MarcelP said:


> I had a another nice sub 18 Ao12.... if it wasn't for my batteries to die in solve 11..
> 
> A nice 13 in there too (Blue cross at 2.50)... I think I should start consider myself sub 19..



Very nice average, except for that 24. And very calm during the whole average. I would have started to moan after the 24. It looks like we are quite close regarding the times we can get but you seem to be much more consistent than I am.

Again, you appear so relaxed and with music... while I am so stressed. Maybe my problem with recording is that I insist in using a GoPro-like approach and the camera in my head blocks my thinking  But I hate to have to set up a tripod and all that stuff.


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## h2f (Oct 16, 2015)

moralsh said:


> Hehe, I'm also learning turbo because you said Grzegorz said it was better, and I'm liking it. I definitely need to step up my bld and will also try to practice 5BLD, at least centers.
> 
> My next comp should be by February next year, let's see what we can do by then



I hope he's right and You will be successfull with it.


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## chtiger (Oct 16, 2015)

mafergut said:


> Have you guys ever had a LL skip? I must have speedsolved a rubik's cube at least a hundred thousand times and I have NEVER had a LL skip


I've had 1. Got 13.17 when my PB was 16.65


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## mafergut (Oct 16, 2015)

chtiger said:


> I've had 1. Got 13.17 when my PB was 16.65



Nice! I should get one sooner or later. I don't know exactly what are the odds, assuming I'm not doing anything to influence the LL during F2L, such as edge orientation, WV... What worries me is that when I finally get one I will waste it with some horrible F2L and it won't even be PB.


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## MarcelP (Oct 16, 2015)

mafergut said:


> Very nice average, except for that 24. And very calm during the whole average. I would have started to moan after the 24. It looks like we are quite close regarding the times we can get but you seem to be much more consistent than I am.
> 
> Again, you appear so relaxed and with music... while I am so stressed. Maybe my problem with recording is that I insist in using a GoPro-like approach and the camera in my head blocks my thinking  But I hate to have to set up a tripod and all that stuff.



Yes, my times are becomming more consistent. Standard dev is now usualy around 1. About a year ago that was 1.7. I was quite relaxed because these where the first solves of the day . It went all bad after the first 20 solves.. so I stopped at 40 solves or so with a low 19.xx mean


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## Logiqx (Oct 16, 2015)

mafergut said:


> I don't know exactly what are the odds, assuming I'm not doing anything to influence the LL during F2L, such as edge orientation, WV.



1/216 * 1/72 = 1/15552


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## obelisk477 (Oct 16, 2015)

How old must one be to be considered an 'older' cuber?


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## mafergut (Oct 16, 2015)

Logiqx said:


> 1/216 * 1/72 = 1/15552



I for sure have done more than 100,000 solves so it's somewhat unlikely that I haven't even gotten one yet 



obelisk477 said:


> How old must one be to be considered an 'older' cuber?



I'd say over 40 but we admit younger people as well if they feel old


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## obelisk477 (Oct 16, 2015)

mafergut said:


> I'd say over 40 but we admit younger people as well if they feel old



Well I'm 25 which isn't terribly old but I do feel ancient at competitions. Also I feel like I'm robbed of some of the youngsters TPS, which is why it's taken me so long to get to the speed that I am now.


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## Logiqx (Oct 16, 2015)

obelisk477 said:


> Well I'm 25 which isn't terribly old but I do feel ancient at competitions. Also I feel like I'm robbed of some of the youngsters TPS, which is why it's taken me so long to get to the speed that I am now.



I was going to suggest that 25 is probably the point at which "older cuber" starts to apply!

Most of the regulars in this thread are over 40.


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## newtonbase (Oct 16, 2015)

3:25 3BLD PB. If I can pull one of those out at the UKs I'll be ecstatic. I'll be doing my best to hammer blind practice while on holiday before the comp.


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## h2f (Oct 17, 2015)

newtonbase said:


> 3:25 3BLD PB. If I can pull one of those out at the UKs I'll be ecstatic. I'll be doing my best to hammer blind practice while on holiday before the comp.



Nice time.


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## Jason Green (Oct 17, 2015)

MarcelP said:


> I had a another nice sub 18 Ao12.... if it wasn't for my batteries to die in solve 11..
> 
> A nice 13 in there too (Blue cross at 2.50)... I think I should start consider myself sub 19..
> 
> ...


I like watching your solves. Maybe because I always remember your 1:30 video you started with so it makes me have dreams.  I would like to chart my progress someday of I get faster over time to see how the progress went. I think some people did that on here but I have forgotten how far back they went.


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## Jason Green (Oct 17, 2015)

h2f said:


> Well, Im glad to read this. My ego grows up, etc. I've prepared multiblindfolded too. It's 4/5 from the first day. I gave some speed to video. My son is holding a sheet (and looks tired and bored).  The attempt started a few minutes before 20:00.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5dlzxzXdbuA


Very cool!


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## Jason Green (Oct 17, 2015)

obelisk477 said:


> How old must one be to be considered an 'older' cuber? [emoji14]


Warning you also have to deal with videos from guys like me who share 30 second averages.  I'm working on it though.


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## muchacho (Oct 17, 2015)

I've solved a megaminx using this tutorials:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DleeqsLt6Dw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aWI6Bdao5Y4

It tooked me too long, it was not that much fun


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## cubesp (Oct 17, 2015)

I don't use a specific method. First time it tooked me one hour. 
I applied all I already known about 333... Layer, f2l, sune,...


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## mafergut (Oct 17, 2015)

I tried to reconstruct the two 13.67 full-steps from 3-4 days ago but there are too many similar options for the crosses and I cannot remember how I did them In fact they don't seem to be specially easy scrambles but normal ones.

13,67 L' R2 U2 B2 R2 B' D2 L2 R2 F R2 F' R U L F' U' F2 D' R B 
13,67 L F2 L' D R B' U' L2 D L F2 R F2 U2 L D2 R U2 R B2 

Just in case anybody wants to try them out.


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## cubesp (Oct 17, 2015)

I'd like to learn a good method...after improving my 444...


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## muchacho (Oct 17, 2015)

cubesp said:


> I don't use a specific method. First time it tooked me one hour.
> I applied all I already known about 333... Layer, f2l, sune,...


Roux is the only method I know for 333 so the megaminx may be a bit harder for me, and my eyes have trouble distinguishing some of those colors (it's a stickerless yuhu), I'm not sure if I will like it enough to care to learn more for it, but at least I think I'll try a few more times.


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## mafergut (Oct 17, 2015)

cubesp said:


> I'd like to learn a good method...after improving my 444...



I just checked some simple algs for the last layer, which include things you'd already know from 3x3, like niklas, sune / anti-sune, beginner's corner orientation and did like 5-6 solves to get the grasp of it. Then somebody challenged me on the Accomplishment forum to time myself, as I was afraid it would take like forever. It took 9 minutes and a half or something like that. I have yet to get my Megaminx again but 3x3, OH, 4x4, 2x2... too many events to have time to practise all of them regularly. I have to say that I enjoyed Mega a lot but my Yuhu is absolute crap


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## cubesp (Oct 17, 2015)

I have a shengshou and I'm waiting for yuhu...


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## Logiqx (Oct 17, 2015)

Oh yeah... new OH PB... Ao12

Old: 32.46, New: 32.45 

I almost broke the 30 second barrier for Ao5 as well... 30.21


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## Jason Green (Oct 17, 2015)

Logiqx said:


> Oh yeah... new OH PB... Ao12
> 
> Old: 32.46, New: 32.45
> 
> I almost broke the 30 second barrier for Ao5 as well... 30.21


Cool!


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## Logiqx (Oct 17, 2015)

Jason Green said:


> Cool!



I was tempted to set up the camera after some nice solves but I decided against it... it's a sure fire way to ruin a good session!


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## Jason Green (Oct 17, 2015)

Logiqx said:


> I was tempted to set up the camera after some nice solves but I decided against it... it's a sure fire way to ruin a good session!


Yes I'm sure it would! Camera first if you want to video I think.


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## EvilGnome6 (Oct 17, 2015)

New 3x3 PB.


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## mafergut (Oct 17, 2015)

Logiqx said:


> Oh yeah... new OH PB... Ao12
> 
> Old: 32.46, New: 32.45
> 
> I almost broke the 30 second barrier for Ao5 as well... 30.21



Oh my! I'm so far from those times... yet  Congratulations. What's your OH PB single?



EvilGnome6 said:


> New 3x3 PB.
> 
> http://azcubing.com/IMG_20151017_092452.jpg



Hey! Great! And you just said like 1 week ago that you had no sub-18 single. Now you have! Go, go, sub 17!


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## Logiqx (Oct 17, 2015)

EvilGnome6 said:


> New 3x3 PB.
> 17.687



Nice work!



mafergut said:


> Oh my! I'm so far from those times... yet  Congratulations. What's your OH PB single?



22.61 although I don't recall the nature of the solve (most likely an OLL or PLL skip). I've definitely had 24-26s full step solves.

10 out of todays 60 solves were sub-30.


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## Jason Green (Oct 17, 2015)

mafergut said:


> Oh my! I'm so far from those times... yet  Congratulations. What's your OH PB single?
> 
> 
> 
> Hey! Great! And you just said like 1 week ago that you had no sub-18 single. Now you have! Go, go, sub 17!


Great job, but darn... I got excited thinking it was a video.


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## SenorJuan (Oct 17, 2015)

Mike: What would you say your typical 333 OH 'split' time for completing the first 2 layers was? 
I'm aware that my own last layer is poor, I need plenty of practice, it's not unusual for me to take the same amount of time on the LL as the first two.


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## Logiqx (Oct 17, 2015)

SenorJuan said:


> Mike: What would you say your typical 333 OH 'split' time for completing the first 2 layers was?
> I'm aware that my own last layer is poor, I need plenty of practice, it's not unusual for me to take the same amount of time on the LL as the first two.



I don't really know as I try not to look at the timer during OH. It feels like a similar percentage of the solve as 2H but some LL cases feel a bit slow. There is a big difference between my U-perm and F-perm!


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## Lid (Oct 17, 2015)

Did a a12 for both F2L & LL OH, here is what I got, 67% / 33%. So almost an exact 2/3+1/3 split.

OH-F2L: 16.33, 14.20, 14.77, (13.84), 15.59, 15.23, 17.10, (20.17), 17.77, 17.00, 15.23, 14.86 = 15.81
OH-LL: 6.81, 6.35, 8.58, 6.98, (9.29), 7.83, (2.35), 8.17, 6.95, 6.21, 7.85, 7.81


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## SenorJuan (Oct 17, 2015)

Hmmm..that's why I asked, the last layer does seem (to me) proportionally longer than it is for two-hands. There's that tps limit, the awkwardness of the F / F' turn, the cube rotations, all seem to conspire....

More practice needed, definitely.

@Lid: Those 15 -17 sec first 2 layer times are what I'm aiming for, sometimes it seems close, other days just don't....teflon fingers, can't warm up my brain, wondering what this coloured thing in my hand is....


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## mafergut (Oct 17, 2015)

Lid said:


> Did a a12 for both F2L & LL OH, here is what I got, 67% / 33%. So almost an exact 2/3+1/3 split.
> 
> OH-F2L: 16.33, 14.20, 14.77, (13.84), 15.59, 15.23, 17.10, (20.17), 17.77, 17.00, 15.23, 14.86 = 15.81
> OH-LL: 6.81, 6.35, 8.58, 6.98, (9.29), 7.83, (2.35), 8.17, 6.95, 6.21, 7.85, 7.81



I can sometimes (but rarely) get F2L completed in under 20 seconds but my LL takes like forever. My PB, which is a 33.04 full-step, must have been something like 18 sec F2L + 15 sec LL more or less, so imagine how bad my LL is.


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## Lid (Oct 18, 2015)

Late night practice gave a new a12 PB: 16.224

13.090, 18.711, 13.785, 18.246, 17.892, 13.643, (11.953), 17.188, 15.693, 17.709, (19.570), 16.281

All solves were full step :tu


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## cubesp (Oct 18, 2015)

It starts with with a quite epic fail... 444 5:08!!! Destroyed centers 2 times. Second try 3:2x.. 
Ok end of 444, but it was fun!


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## mark49152 (Oct 18, 2015)

cubesp said:


> It starts with with a quite epic fail... 444 5:08!!! Destroyed centers 2 times. Second try 3:2x..
> Ok end of 444, but it was fun!


Good luck with the rest of it.

And I just noticed it's Dutch Open today. Good luck Marcel! 

Edit: WOOHOO! 19.80 average in 1st round! Congrats Marcel  You are now officially sub-20 and fastest of this little group . A very well-deserved PB!


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## muchacho (Oct 18, 2015)

And he is doing fine, 2 PBs already :tu


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## MarcelP (Oct 18, 2015)

mark49152 said:


> Good luck with the rest of it.
> 
> And I just noticed it's Dutch Open today. Good luck Marcel!
> 
> Edit: WOOHOO! 19.80 average in 1st round! Congrats Marcel  You are now officially sub-20 and fastest of this little group . A very well-deserved PB!



Whoooohoooooo!!!!!


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## cubesp (Oct 18, 2015)

Ok. 
For my first comp


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## muchacho (Oct 18, 2015)

Nice, you are getting all official PBs 

You are competing in 2x2, 3x3 and 4x4 or some more?

How is going you first comp? Fun? Too much noise and distractions maybe?


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## guusrs (Oct 18, 2015)

Congratz Marcel with your sub-20 PB.
Sorry I wasn't there...


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## cubesp (Oct 18, 2015)

muchacho said:


> Nice, you are getting all official PBs [emoji14]
> 
> You are competing in 2x2, 3x3 and 4x4 or some more?
> 
> How is going you first comp? Fun? Too much noise and distractions maybe?


It's enough! I'm able to solve 5, mega, pyra, skewb, but in large time windows! 
It was fun, no problem for rumors. 
I'll upload some 333 solve for suggestions from all of you!


----------



## mark49152 (Oct 18, 2015)

MarcelP said:


> Whoooohoooooo!!!!!


Ahem... What happened in the second round?


----------



## mafergut (Oct 18, 2015)

Congrats to Marcel and Eugenio for their competitions.
In particular, official sub-20 Ao5 is an accomplishment. Well done, Marcel!
And surviving to your 1st comp without any DNFs is also something to be proud of, Eugenio.

Today I'm practicing 4x4x4 and getting closer to the 2min barrier. New PB single (with double parity):

3. 2:14.74 B' Rw' Uw2 U L Rw B F' D Fw B R' F' R2 L D2 L U2 B2 Uw' F' Uw2 U' F2 B Uw2 R2 L' Rw F' Fw D L R2 B' Rw2 L2 Fw L F'

I just need to get more comfortable with Yau restricted centers and edge pairing and also I need to recognize PLL parity faster in some cases.


----------



## cubesp (Oct 18, 2015)

I've got my official PBs!





Congrats Marcel!


----------



## MarcelP (Oct 18, 2015)

mark49152 said:


> Ahem... What happened in the second round?



LOL... Yeah... First round I was very nervous, because I had no time to warm up. I had to judge first group. I was in second group. First solve 24 secs.. Blehh.. But then the rest went OK. I had 'panic' hands resulting is locky and slow LL. Fortunatly my lookahead was inmaculate. Just awesome... LOL.. Second round I was not nervous, and fully warmed up but messed up everything. The DNF was a 14.XX but left with a R U.. But honoustly I even doubted to start in second round because I knew I would not beat my first round.. Funny facts.. My 1.36 PB on 4X4 beats my old 1.36 PB.. and my 4.18 best on 5x5 did not beat my prevous 4.18 best..  Second solve on 5x5 I was starting PLL at 3.49.. totally freaked out when I saw that, messed up the PLL and had to re do OLL and PLL.. resulting in a 4.31. I should have practiced 5x5 way more.. 

Oh I tried a Yuxin 5x5 at the competition... oh man, that cube is awesome.. I ordered it right away.. I used the Cyclone Boys myself and it is way to fast.. Over-shoot every move...



cubesp said:


> I've got my official PBs!
> 
> Congrats Marcel!



You too! Did great. Better than I did at my first competition.



guusrs said:


> Congratz Marcel with your sub-20 PB.
> Sorry I wasn't there...



Thanks Guus, getting closer to you.. LOL


----------



## muchacho (Oct 18, 2015)

Oh, and I see Ron van Bruchem was at Dutch Open, so many fast old cubers there.


Today I've done 23.x two times, my PB is still 23.06 (I did a 21.x but it was a hand scramble) and it was set almost 5 weeks ago when I was averaging 38-39 (6-7 seconds more than now), I want to beat that time NOW!!!


----------



## Jason Green (Oct 18, 2015)

Good job guys! Under 20!!


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## newtonbase (Oct 18, 2015)

Well done guys. 



MarcelP said:


> Oh I tried a Yuxin 5x5 at the competition... oh man, that cube is awesome.. I ordered it right away.. I used the Cyclone Boys myself and it is way to fast.. Over-shoot every move...



It's a great cube. Got mine yesterday.


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## Logiqx (Oct 18, 2015)

Congrats on some great competition results guys!

I caught a nice Ao5 on camera today... slowest solve was 17.05.


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## moralsh (Oct 18, 2015)

Yay Marcel, good job for beating mine and Mark's average and thanks fore letting me keep the single 

Congrats Eugenio on getting your WCA Id and welcome to the "I want to beat my official PBs" club


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## Jason Green (Oct 18, 2015)

Logiqx said:


> Congrats on some great competition results guys!
> 
> I caught a nice Ao5 on camera today... slowest solve was 17.05.
> 
> https://youtu.be/2CZHXR6RF7M


Cool!


----------



## cubesp (Oct 18, 2015)

Logiqx said:


> Congrats on some great competition results guys!
> 
> I caught a nice Ao5 on camera today... slowest solve was 17.05.
> 
> https://youtu.be/2CZHXR6RF7M


Great ao5! 
Your pll are as lighting!


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## cubesp (Oct 18, 2015)

moralsh said:


> Yay Marcel, good job for beating mine and Mark's average and thanks fore letting me keep the single
> 
> Congrats Eugenio on getting your WCA Id and welcome to the "I want to beat my official PBs" club


Thanks.
Uhm I don't know if I already have a wca id! I'll check it!


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## h2f (Oct 18, 2015)

Congrats to you both. Its great to beat pbs.

patataj patataj patataj


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## Logiqx (Oct 18, 2015)

cubesp said:


> Great ao5!
> Your pll are as lighting!



Thanks. If only I could apply that TPS during F2L and maintain my look ahead.


----------



## chtiger (Oct 18, 2015)

Congrats Marcel on official sub 20



mafergut said:


> Nice! I should get one sooner or later. I don't know exactly what are the odds, assuming I'm not doing anything to influence the LL during F2L, such as edge orientation, WV... What worries me is that when I finally get one I will waste it with some horrible F2L and it won't even be PB.


I had another LL skip today, but this time with a mediocre F2L. 17.74. Was just my 3rd fastest solve today of 50 (avg 24.43).
My times today were all over the place for some reason. Yesterday, I had 3 sub-20 and 3 sup-30. Today had 8 sub-20 (4 sub-18) and 5 sup-30.


----------



## EvilGnome6 (Oct 19, 2015)

A 4.80s 2x2 single, which is pretty good for me. I use CLL but I'm not very fast because my TPS and recognition are slow and that's what 2x2 is all about. Cube used was a MoYu LingPo.


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## MarcelP (Oct 19, 2015)

Logiqx said:


> Congrats on some great competition results guys!
> 
> I caught a nice Ao5 on camera today... slowest solve was 17.05.



Awesome! You will be officialy faster soon  What is that J-perm you used at 2:21? That looked insane fast.



EvilGnome6 said:


> A 4.80s 2x2 single, which is pretty good for me. I use CLL but I'm not very fast because my TPS and recognition are slow and that's what 2x2 is all about. Cube used was a MoYu LingPo.



Nice! I am too lazy to learn CLL. What's with all those 3x3's?


----------



## Logiqx (Oct 19, 2015)

MarcelP said:


> Awesome! You will be officialy faster soon  What is that J-perm you used at 2:21? That looked insane fast.



I use the most common Jb:

R U R' F' R U R' U' R' F R2 U' R'

It's really a conjugated T-perm but the last 9 moves cancel... cool how it ends up shorter than the original!

R U R' F' (R U R' U' R' F R2 U' R' U' R U R' F') F R U' R'


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## muchacho (Oct 19, 2015)

EvilGnome6 said:


> A 4.80s 2x2 single, which is pretty good for me. I use CLL but I'm not very fast because my TPS and recognition are slow and that's what 2x2 is all about. Cube used was a MoYu LingPo.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xs_UsO56UMo



That cube looks good, no internal catches? I don't use mine because of that, do you think it may improve if I use it more, or lube it, or use lighter tensions?


Are you into multi blind or you bought all those cubes in case they stop selling them?


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## mafergut (Oct 19, 2015)

EvilGnome6 said:


> A 4.80s 2x2 single, which is pretty good for me. I use CLL but I'm not very fast because my TPS and recognition are slow and that's what 2x2 is all about. Cube used was a MoYu LingPo.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xs_UsO56UMo



For me it looks very nice. Can you post the scramble and your solution? TBH I can't follow the way you solve the botton layer (I assume you have to do a layer, right? I mean you only use CLL and not EG-1/EG-2). I'm stuck with Ortega and sub-5 or sub-4 are very rare. Sub-3 are non-existent for now 

EDIT: And I agree, that LingPo looks great. Much better than mine.



Logiqx said:


> I use the most common Jb:
> 
> R U R' F' R U R' U' R' F R2 U' R'
> 
> ...



I also use that Jb perm. It felt the easier to learn as it is just a T-perm with the last 4 moves at the beginning. 
But whether it is shorter than the original or not depends on the AUF needed. If you start with the correct AUF already, you still need that last U' to complete the cube.


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## Logiqx (Oct 19, 2015)

mafergut said:


> I also use that Jb perm. It felt the easier to learn as it is just a T-perm with the last 4 moves at the beginning.
> But whether it is shorter than the original or not depends on the AUF needed. If you start with the correct AUF already, you still need that last U' to complete the cube.



I consider it an interesting coincidence that the last moves are moved to the beginning. T-perm itself is just two of the easiest OLLs with a cancellation in the middle. This Jb is just a conjugate of the T-perm where R U R' F' is the setup and the end has a lucky cancellation.

I agree... Jb is actually the same length as T when you retain the AUF but I find it interesting that after adding 8 moves for the conjugation and applying cancellations it ends up back at the length of the original T-perm. 

I worked out a load of my own PLLs using this same principle quite some time back but none of them had the benefit of such nice cancellations. It was a fun exercise but my algs were slower than the "standard" PLLs!

Edit: The same logic also applies... i.e. T-perm being a conjugate of Jb-perm. Which came first... the chicken or the egg, lol.


----------



## mafergut (Oct 19, 2015)

Logiqx said:


> I consider it an interesting coincidence that the last moves are moved to the beginning. T-perm itself is just two of the easiest OLLs with a cancellation in the middle. This Jb is just a conjugate of the T-perm where R U R' F' is the setup and the end has a lucky cancellation.
> 
> I agree... Jb is actually the same length as T when you retain the AUF but I find it interesting that after adding 8 moves for the conjugation and applying cancellations it ends up back at the length of the original T-perm.
> 
> ...



Yes! I like all this stuff about combining OLLs and also other semi-algs or triggers, like sexy, sledge, etc. I also like the ideas of setups / conjugates, mirrors, reverses... I just don't have the time to get deeper into cubing theory but it looks like you know a load of all this stuff.



muchacho said:


> Are you into multi blind or you bought all those cubes in case they stop selling them?



By the looks of it he's got at least 15 Guanlongs on there, right? Maybe he's preparing for a 15/15 MBLD attempt, yeah! 15 cubes are just too few to be using them for a mosaic and, you know, you'll need at least 16 for a 12x12 pixel art set-up


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## cubesp (Oct 19, 2015)

Or, all these guanlongs are a low cost speedcube security guard... If there are children around (friend kids, son's school frientro,...) you can let them play with guanlong without testing your meiying-gans-hualong-...
And you can use guanlongs as gift too, so you can evangelize to the cube!! 

Yes, you can use guanlongs for multiplied..


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## h2f (Oct 19, 2015)

What do you use for Ja perm? I know few algs - for 2H for OH, but couldnt find good one and decided for mirror of Jb perm R U R' F' ...: L' U' L F L' U' L U L F' L2 U L.


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## Logiqx (Oct 19, 2015)

h2f said:


> What do you use for Ja perm? I know few algs - for 2H for OH, but couldnt find good one and decided for mirror of Jb perm R U R' F' ...: L' U' L F L' U' L U L F' L2 U L.



2H: R' U L' U2 R U' R' U2 R L
OH: R' U2 R U R' U2 L U' R U L' (RBAS into Niklas with cancellation)

I tend to mirror my LL algs front-back rather than left-right. My OH Ja is the front-back mirror of my OH Jb. I actually use a z and z' whilst executing the end of my OH Ja + Jb.


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## h2f (Oct 19, 2015)

For OH I use the sam alg. But for 2H I often used the one you wrote, but I had problem with fingertricking last 3 moves and AUF if necessery.


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## EvilGnome6 (Oct 19, 2015)

muchacho said:


> That cube looks good, no internal catches? I don't use mine because of that, do you think it may improve if I use it more, or lube it, or use lighter tensions?



I do get some internal catching with the LingPo but it diminishes over time. My tensions are actually rather tight and I sparingly lube the pieces with Traxxas 50K or 10K. Other than that, it's a lot of solves and staying accurate rather than relying on corner cutting.



> Are you into multi blind or you bought all those cubes in case they stop selling them?



I bought 50 GuanLongs last week to have a bunch of cheap cubes to hand out during Halloween, Holidays and set up a GuanLong Challenge at the competition I'm organizing. They were sitting on the kitchen counter so I though I'd build a little wall as a backdrop for the video. 

PS. I can't do blind. I learned OP corners and had a few 2x2 successes but found it a tedious skill to practice. I like listening to podcasts or music while I'm cubing and BLD requires too much focus.


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## EvilGnome6 (Oct 19, 2015)

mafergut said:


> For me it looks very nice. Can you post the scramble and your solution? TBH I can't follow the way you solve the botton layer (I assume you have to do a layer, right? I mean you only use CLL and not EG-1/EG-2). I'm stuck with Ortega and sub-5 or sub-4 are very rare. Sub-3 are non-existent for now
> 
> EDIT: And I agree, that LingPo looks great. Much better than mine.



Oh, that's a good idea. I'll work on that in a bit. Yes, CLL requires a layer and in fact, I never learned the two PBL algs when I learned Ortega. In general, if you have a bar, you can put it in the D/L position and build the other bar using R and U moves. There are exceptions and I get completely flustered when there isn't a bar at all.


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## EvilGnome6 (Oct 19, 2015)

mafergut said:


> For me it looks very nice. Can you post the scramble and your solution?



Reconstruction

scramble: U B2 U2 B D2 F2 U2 F R2 B' D2 B L B2 F R U R2 D B D (white up, green front)

z' x2 (orient)
U R2 U R U B2 R2 (layer)
U2 (auf)
F R U R' U' R U R' U' F' (cll)

During inspection, I didn't see a complete bar but there was a checkerboard bar to work with. That means if I build the other checkerboard half, I can use (R2) B2 R2 to complete the layer (the first R2 gets canceled out because I place the first bar on the bottom and build the second bar on the top). Once I have the layer, it's just one case to identify and execute.


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## h2f (Oct 19, 2015)

This is the scramble for 2x2? Why is it so long?


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## EvilGnome6 (Oct 19, 2015)

h2f said:


> This is the scramble for 2x2? Why is it so long?



I accidentally had it set for 3x3 scrambles.


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## h2f (Oct 19, 2015)

Heh. That's logic.


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## EvilGnome6 (Oct 19, 2015)

h2f said:


> Heh. That's logic.



The funny thing is that I did almost 70 solves and didn't notice the long scrambles. Doing lots of big cubes sort of rots your brain that way.


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## mafergut (Oct 19, 2015)

h2f said:


> What do you use for Ja perm? I know few algs - for 2H for OH, but couldnt find good one and decided for mirror of Jb perm R U R' F' ...: L' U' L F L' U' L U L F' L2 U L.



I can do the lefty mirror of both Jb and T perms and I currently use it when I get the Ja correctly set up and AUFed for my left hand. In any other case I orient it like upside down L on the up-right and use this alg:
L' R' U2 R U R' U2 L U' R which, now that I realize, is a y2 mirror for the one Michael just mentioned.
I use this same alg also for OH.



EvilGnome6 said:


> Reconstruction
> 
> scramble: U B2 U2 B D2 F2 U2 F R2 B' D2 B L B2 F R U R2 D B D (white up, green front)
> 
> ...



Thanks. Now that I think of it, using CLL for 2x2 must develop good skills for 1st layer that I'm not developing as, as an Ortega solver, in fact you try to avoid layers unless stupidly easy, as the PBLs are much easier when you have no layers at all. Funny that my PB singles with "Ortega" are almost always: easy layer + OLL + PBL skip, which would be like a LBL solve. Well, some of them are also, face (with diag swap) + OLL (with diag swap) + R2 B2 R2 (PBL) 

I was curious and wanted to see the full reconstruction because:
1) I didn't see well how you did the 1st layer, now I get the final B2 R2, very interesting trick indeed
2) I saw you just finished with the alg I would do for that OLL case which, coincidentally must be the CLL alg for the case you got 
So, it in fact could have also been mistaken by a LBL solve with PLL skip


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## EvilGnome6 (Oct 19, 2015)

mafergut said:


> Thanks. Now that I think of it, using CLL for 2x2 must develop good skills for 1st layer



Building the first layer has been the most difficult part to learn, especially since I don't have great spatial reasoning. I'm getting better and I feel like that solve was a good example of planning one out when it was more than just a 2 or 3 move layer. 



> So, it in fact could have been mistaken by a LBL solve with PLL skip



That's what every CLL solve actually is. You just have to learn 6 OLL algorithms for each case and apply the right one to force a PLL skip. [emoji1]


----------



## mafergut (Oct 19, 2015)

EvilGnome6 said:


> Building the first layer has been the most difficult part to learn, especially since I don't have great spatial reasoning. I'm getting better and I feel like that solve was a good example of planning one out when it was more than just a 2 or 3 move layer.
> 
> 
> 
> That's what every CLL solve actually is. You just have to learn 6 OLL algorithms for each case and apply the right one to force a PLL skip. [emoji1]



Yeah, but as this case is just the regular OLL that most people would use for 2x2 LBL or Ortega, for the untrained eye it doesn't look like a CLL solve, hehehe.


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## muchacho (Oct 19, 2015)

It would take me like 1 minute to build a layer, I think instead of trying to learn to do that I would prefer memorizing EG-1 and EG-2 and then CLL.


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## EvilGnome6 (Oct 19, 2015)

muchacho said:


> It would take me like 1 minute to build a layer, I think instead of trying to learn to do that I would prefer memorizing EG-1 and EG-2 and then CLL.


Sometimes I think about learning EG so I can just build a side and then I remember that I don't really like 2x2 very much.


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## mafergut (Oct 19, 2015)

EvilGnome6 said:


> Sometimes I think about learning EG so I can just build a side and then I remember that I don't really like 2x2 very much.



Yeah, that's exactly what I think. It's like 42 x 3 algs to learn full CLL+EG-1+EG-2 or at least 42 x 2 + get the grasp of how to use anti-CLL to cover for EG-2 or make sure you have at least a bar in the face so that you don't need EG-2 at all. Too many algs and too much hassle for an event I don't practice that much and probably effort better spent in learning COLL + some VHLS, etc. to improve my game at 3x3. COLL is identical amount of cases as CLL and I can apply it at OH and, in theory, those could be applied to 2x2 as well as a "less efficient" CLL for when I solve with Ortega and the easier face is a layer .


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## Lid (Oct 19, 2015)

EvilGnome6 said:


> Sometimes I think about learning EG so I can just build a side and then I remember that I don't really like 2x2 very much.


At your speed I suggest you just go with Ortega. Myself use CLL and Ortega as base + some EG-1 (like half).


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## mafergut (Oct 19, 2015)

Lid said:


> At your speed I suggest you just go with Ortega. Myself use CLL and Ortega as base + some EG-1 (like half).



So, if you can do an easy layer you do CLL and if you can do a face with a bar you either use EG-1 and if you don't know the case just OLL + PBL? That's a progressive approach that could work for somebody that has no rush in learning the full EG- sets 

EDIT: Best time I get in a while.

12.99 PLL skip but I cannot reconstruct. Nice crosses in both white and yellow, so I am not sure what color I chose.

Scramble: D B2 L2 D2 F' R B2 R2 B' R L2 F2 D B2 L2 D2 F2 U' B2 L2 F2


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## EvilGnome6 (Oct 19, 2015)

Anthony Brooks is coming to the competition I'm organizing next month. I'll ask him what he recommends as a progressive step from Ortega or CLL.


----------



## Jason Green (Oct 19, 2015)

EvilGnome6 said:


> Anthony Brooks is coming to the competition I'm organizing next month. I'll ask him what he recommends as a progressive step from Ortega or CLL.



That's cool, I got to see him at a competition in Dallas (he won - 3x3 at least not sure what else). That was just a few weeks after I got back into cubing in July, and I did not even consider participating really. I definitely will next time I get a chance!


----------



## EvilGnome6 (Oct 19, 2015)

Jason Green said:


> That's cool, I got to see him at a competition in Dallas (he won - 3x3 at least not sure what else). That was just a few weeks after I got back into cubing in July, and I did not even consider participating really. I definitely will next time I get a chance!


I met him at a competition in San Antonio a few months ago. He was super nice. He judged one of my 2x2 solves and gave me some pointers on memorizing algorithms after I screwed up my solve.


----------



## Lid (Oct 19, 2015)

mafergut said:


> 12.99 PLL skip but I cannot reconstruct. Nice crosses in both white and yellow, so I am not sure what color I chose.
> 
> Scramble: D B2 L2 D2 F' R B2 R2 B' R L2 F2 D B2 L2 D2 F2 U' B2 L2 F2


Blue cross is pretty nice to: (didn't time it thou)
x y2 L D L' D R2 U L2 // cross (8/8)
R U R' U2 F U F' // 1st (7/15)
d' R' U' R // 2nd (4/19)
R U' R' U R U' R' // 3rd (7/26)
y' R U2 R' U' R U R' // 4th (7/33)
U2 (R U R' U R U2 R') U' (R U2 R' U' R U' R') U2 // 2GLL (17/50) (= U2 Sune U' AntiSune U2)


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## Logiqx (Oct 19, 2015)

Jason Green said:


> I would like to chart my progress someday of I get faster over time to see how the progress went. I think some people did that on here but I have forgotten how far back they went.



I have records going back to when I was averaging ~2:40. However, I only recorded the best single and session mean for the first ~240 solves.

I started recording Ao12 after ~240 solves (sub-60 averages) and started recording Ao50 after ~600 solves (sub-45 averages).

Ao12 chart - 

Ao50 chart - 

The regression at around 16,000 solves was due to a 3 month break from the 3x3 and CFOP. I don't recommend that much time off if you want to improve.


----------



## Jason Green (Oct 19, 2015)

Logiqx said:


> I have records going back to when I was averaging ~2:40. However, I only recorded the best single and session mean for the first ~240 solves.
> 
> I started recording Ao12 after ~240 solves (sub-60 averages) and started recording Ao50 after ~600 solves (sub-45 averages).
> 
> ...



That's pretty cool. I was thinking in terms of a timeline, but this is probably more useful because it depends on how much each day you are practicing.

I do a lot of practice with my Android timer on my phone, and I just periodically export the times and erase them. It does not even keep AO5 or 12, just a global average. I was thinking some time I might graph every single solve over time. So far all the sessions I've ever done on CSTimer.net I have also.


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## Logiqx (Oct 19, 2015)

Jason Green said:


> That's pretty cool. I was thinking in terms of a timeline, but this is probably more useful because it depends on how much each day you are practicing.
> 
> I do a lot of practice with my Android timer on my phone, and I just periodically export the times and erase them. It does not even keep AO5 or 12, just a global average. I was thinking some time I might graph every single solve over time. So far all the sessions I've ever done on CSTimer.net I have also.



I've done a variety of charts with my data but the ones above update every time I add a line into Excel.

I record the data+time, number of solves, single, Ao5, Ao12, Ao50, Ao100, session avg+stdev and a short comment.

It takes me less than a minute to record a session and it's nice to be able to look back!


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## muchacho (Oct 19, 2015)

Exported from Prisma Puzzle Timer to "Excel" (libreoffice). It looks a bit messy, I'll try to make it an ao50 or something like that.



And removing the first solves:



The peaks are me trying new sticker colors.


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## Logiqx (Oct 19, 2015)

muchacho said:


> Exported from Prisma Puzzle Timer to "Excel" (libreoffice). It looks a bit messy, I'll try to make it an ao50 or something like that.



That's a cool insight into the rapid improvement whilst you're getting familiar with the cube!

If you have Excel you can use something like TRIMMEAN(A1:A50,6/50) to get an Ao50 (i.e. discard fastest 3 and slowest 3).

Other values for the "percent" parameter - 2/5 (Ao5), 2/12 (Ao12), 10/100 (Ao100)


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## mark49152 (Oct 19, 2015)

Logiqx said:


> If you have Excel you can use something like TRIMMEAN(A1:A50,6/50) to get an Ao50 (i.e. discard fastest 3 and slowest 3).


That's a great tip. How come I never found that function before?!


----------



## Logiqx (Oct 19, 2015)

mark49152 said:


> That's a great tip. How come I never found that function before?!



The TRIMMEAN function was built for cubers. It's a great way to calculate rolling averages.


----------



## muchacho (Oct 19, 2015)

Thanks! :tu

And TRIMEAN also exists in libreoffice!

Rolling Ao50:


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## Jason Green (Oct 19, 2015)

muchacho said:


> Thanks! :tu
> 
> And TRIMEAN also exists in libreoffice!
> 
> ...


Much cleaner!


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## cubesp (Oct 20, 2015)

ok.
That is my first official 3x3x3. Not the best nor the worst of the competition, so exactly my time know.
Suggestions are welcome !!!

[video]https://youtu.be/ZeqwgWGLgT4[/video]

cross is terrible !!!


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## EvilGnome6 (Oct 20, 2015)

Logiqx said:


> I caught a nice Ao5 on camera today... slowest solve was 17.05.




Very, very nice! Smooth F2L and nice fingertricks on LL. Someday...


----------



## MarcelP (Oct 20, 2015)

cubesp said:


> ok.
> That is my first official 3x3x3. Not the best nor the worst of the competition, so exactly my time know.
> Suggestions are welcome !!!
> 
> ...



Very nice. No nervous hands. One tip: when stopping the timer.. hold your hands on the timer untill you see with your eyes that the timer has stopped. Just tapping the timer like you did might not stop the timer. Also, you need to (start and stop) touch with fingers and not palms. Although 99% of judges will not say something, but stopping with palms will give you an advantage since you could still hold the cube in your fingers.

I can tell from this video that you have great potential to be very fast. Slow deliberate turning is great for lookahead. LL is allready pretty fast. Yup.. you will be faster than me soon


----------



## h2f (Oct 20, 2015)

cubesp said:


> ok.
> That is my first official 3x3x3. Not the best nor the worst of the competition, so exactly my time know.
> Suggestions are welcome !!!
> 
> ...



Nice. No unnecessary moves, calm, good fingertricks. You will be arond 20 very soon.


----------



## Jason Green (Oct 20, 2015)

cubesp said:


> ok.
> That is my first official 3x3x3. Not the best nor the worst of the competition, so exactly my time know.
> Suggestions are welcome !!!
> 
> ...


Good job, I'd be happy to finish in my first contest I think.


----------



## h2f (Oct 20, 2015)

muchacho said:


> Thanks! :tu
> 
> And TRIMEAN also exists in libreoffice!
> 
> ...



I'm a noob in excel. How you do that?


----------



## Logiqx (Oct 20, 2015)

cubesp said:


> ok.
> That is my first official 3x3x3. Not the best nor the worst of the competition, so exactly my time know.
> Suggestions are welcome !!!
> 
> ...



Very nice. Your turning is really smooth and you look pretty calm, except during the cross. 

Use your inspection wisely. You had your hands back on the timer after 7-8 seconds and there was a good while remaining to mentally rehearse your cross plan.


----------



## muchacho (Oct 20, 2015)

cubesp said:


> ok.
> That is my first official 3x3x3. Not the best nor the worst of the competition, so exactly my time know.
> Suggestions are welcome !!!
> 
> ...



I know nothing about CFOP, but that solve looks pretty efficient, and that was your worst time! Very nice for being the first one :tu

Not feeling nervous?


----------



## muchacho (Oct 20, 2015)

h2f said:


> I'm a noob in excel. How you do that?



I'm a noob too.

The times were in the C column, the number of solve in A. First I had to convert (I used Vim for that) times that were formatted like 2:03.30 to 123.30.

In D1 I pasted this:
*=TRIMMEAN(C1:C50,6/50)*

I copied that to the rest of D column.

I selected A and D columns and pressed the "make a chart" button.


----------



## h2f (Oct 20, 2015)

muchacho said:


> I'm a noob too.
> 
> The times were in the C column, the number of solve in A. First I had to convert (I used Vim for that) times that were formatted like 2:03.30 to 123.30.
> 
> ...



I'm close to make it, but some things are wrong. I gave up - I can't creat it. Thanks for your help.


----------



## mafergut (Oct 20, 2015)

cubesp said:


> ok.
> That is my first official 3x3x3. Not the best nor the worst of the competition, so exactly my time know.
> Suggestions are welcome !!!
> 
> ...



Yeah, maybe cross was not very good. You need to fully plan it during inspection, this will come with time. But the rest of the solve was very nice. I agree that you will be around 20 very very soon.


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## cubesp (Oct 20, 2015)

mafergut said:


> Yeah, maybe cross was not very good. You need to fully plan it during inspection, this will come with time. But the rest of the solve was very nice. I agree that you will be around 20 very very soon.


I'll punish myself with regular avg100 only cross 
It was really bad.
I hope you'll right!! 
Thanks


----------



## cubesp (Oct 20, 2015)

muchacho said:


> I know nothing about CFOP, but that solve looks pretty efficient, and that was your worst time! Very nice for being the first one :tu
> 
> Not feeling nervous?


Uhm.. It was the second best in the line... But is very usual for me, even if I had better PB. 

Inspection time was my worst enemy.
And starting with a terrible 444 didn't put me in comfort zone. 
My 222 and 333 were a little higher then my usual avg

By the way I have 5 new PBs and I already know that I can do better!!


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## muchacho (Oct 20, 2015)

Ah ok, I didn't looked at the time in the video and I was thinking that you said that it was your first solve (that if I recall was 43 or something like that).


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## JanW (Oct 21, 2015)

Hi there cubers! Mind if I join the fun, despite being a youngster in my mid 30s? I've been lurking this thread for a while now, and I must say it is very inspirational to see the progress of all you guys. 

I got myself a rubik's brand cube a few years ago and learned some beginner's method for solving it, but then it lay on the shelf for a few years, until I picked it up again about 3 weeks ago. Last few weeks I've been trying to learn intuitive F2L and experimenting with some other techniques as well. Also realized that the rubik's brand is way too heavy to turn and ordered a couple of ZhanChis, which I finally got last week. 

Yesterday I decided it's time to see where I stand, so I installed a timer app and did two sets of 50 solves. Here are the results:



Very happy to (barely) average under one minute. Also happy to say that the fastest 43s solve did not include any skips. 

For now I will focus on getting more comfortable with F2L. That is by far the slowest part of my solve. My goal at the moment is to get faster in small steps, next milestone would be the 50 second barrier. I think I can get there quite fast by improving F2L.

I'll try to post progress updates with Ao50s or Ao100s at least every week, and at some point I must figure out a way to set up a video camera so that I can get better feedback on my solves. Though the next week I will spend mostly doing slow F2L solves instead of timed solves. Possibly I'll try practicing with a metronome, which I read could be a good technique. At least that wouldn't be anything new to me. As a professional pianist, I've done thousands of hours of metronome drills in the past.


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## h2f (Oct 21, 2015)

Hi Jan. It's nice to see your post in this thread. Your times are good and the barrier of 50s you will get very soon


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## SenorJuan (Oct 21, 2015)

Welcome. Two Zhanchi's? One set up for two-handed solving, one dedicated to one-handed use? 
It would be interesting to see how metronome training works for you, I personally found it unsuitable, solves aren't naturally 'smooth', cube rotations in particular affect things, and there are times when bursts of speed are OK, times when slower is more helpful.


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## JanW (Oct 21, 2015)

Thank you for the welcomes!



SenorJuan said:


> Two Zhanchi's? One set up for two-handed solving, one dedicated to one-handed use?


One stickered and one stickerless. So far I haven't done any fine tuning, because I really don't know what is needed. I only have experience from that first rubik's brand (which feels ridiculously stiff after a few days with the Dayan's) and those 2 new cubes out of the box. I don't know if the new cubes are good or would require some tuning/lubing, because I don't know what a good cube should feel like. Any tips for how I could tell if the cubes behave as they should?


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## cubesp (Oct 21, 2015)

Welcome! I remember well first avgs under the minute, a few months ago.
It was a big goal, but immediately after I started defining new goals, exactly like you!


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## h2f (Oct 21, 2015)

JanW said:


> Any tips for how I could tell if the cubes behave as they should?



It comes with practice and experience. Some issues are personal preferences.


----------



## SenorJuan (Oct 21, 2015)

One simple test of your cubes is to look for symmetry. If all 6 faces feel similar, that's good. Pull two opposite faces apart, is the pull evenly spread between the faces, does the gap when the limit is reached look about the same? Any imbalance can be adjusted out with a cross-head screwdriver. Just pry off the centre-piece caps with your fingernail, the screw head is clearly visible inside. Take it easy, 1/4 of a turn can make a difference.


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## MarcelP (Oct 21, 2015)

JanW said:


> Any tips for how I could tell if the cubes behave as they should?



Hi,

Yeah: https://youtu.be/4X1hUDWxx3Y


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## Logiqx (Oct 21, 2015)

JanW said:


> Hi there cubers! Mind if I join the fun, despite being a youngster in my mid 30s? I've been lurking this thread for a while now, and I must say it is very inspirational to see the progress of all you guys.



Welcome to the party! Congrats on breaking the 1 minute barrier.


----------



## Jason Green (Oct 21, 2015)

JanW said:


> Hi there cubers! Mind if I join the fun, despite being a youngster in my mid 30s? I've been lurking this thread for a while now, and I must say it is very inspirational to see the progress of all you guys.
> 
> I got myself a rubik's brand cube a few years ago and learned some beginner's method for solving it, but then it lay on the shelf for a few years, until I picked it up again about 3 weeks ago. Last few weeks I've been trying to learn intuitive F2L and experimenting with some other techniques as well. Also realized that the rubik's brand is way too heavy to turn and ordered a couple of ZhanChis, which I finally got last week.
> 
> ...


Welcome! I had a same start like you around July this year, having learned to solve a long time ago. For me, I advanced to the low 30s pretty quickly, it's been a bit slower since but I'm still loving it!


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## JanW (Oct 21, 2015)

Thanks all! And thank you Marcel for that video, was very helpful. Did some fine tuning of my stickerless and it feels much better now.



SenorJuan said:


> It would be interesting to see how metronome training works for you, I personally found it unsuitable, solves aren't naturally 'smooth', cube rotations in particular affect things, and there are times when bursts of speed are OK, times when slower is more helpful.


I'll be interested to see how that works as well. Made myself a little training schedule today for the next few days. Will take on the problem just like I did with finger exercises back in the days at the music academy. Will let you know the results by the end of the week.


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## Jason Green (Oct 23, 2015)

It's been kind of quiet here... It's a little depressing when there aren't any posts to read. 

I've kind of got 29 of the OLLs memorized. Although not real well yet. I think I took too many at once so I'm kind of getting them mixed up still.  I'll get there eventually. 

I also joined the race to sub 30 thread so that's exciting. I've kind of plateaued still, and probably working on the OLLs has temporarily slowed me down, but it's all good. 

What else is up?


----------



## h2f (Oct 23, 2015)

I'm drilling Turbo in 3bld and some easy comms for edges. Best time 1:17 - not so bad but avg around 2 minutes. Also I plan to make some sessions with cross (blind cross, fast cross, cross, cross, cross) - it's my weakest point. I can make cross in 2 seconds, but often in 5 or more. Sometimes I do cross in 8-10 seconds and finish a solove in around 25 or little over. I've realized I could be sub-20 or around if I make my cross more efficient.


----------



## muchacho (Oct 23, 2015)

I've been practicing with the megaminx, so time consuming... but I like it, I've solved it less that 10 times, with around 20 minutes being the best.

One question, it's a stickerless yuhu and I have trouble differentiating (at least) one of the colors from other, do you think it would be possible (and competition legal) to spray paint (or maybe just use a permanent marker) to change one of the colors (or two)?


----------



## mafergut (Oct 23, 2015)

Well, here I am trying to diversify what I solve, after a year or more focused in becoming sub-20 at 3x3 and having a hard time with it.
In particular this week I've been doing 2x2, trying to learn some more algs for Ortega/Varasano, like PBL for diag swap on top / bar on bottom to avoid a z2 rotation and still pending, hopefully for this weekend, some shorter algs to replace T and Y perms, that I still use in 2x2 for bar / solved and diag swap / solved cases. Also trying to focus in predicting AUF while executing PBL so that I don't have to pause (I keep doing the AUF wrong many, many times) and trying also to concentrate in not grasping the cube too firmly to avoid catching. I managed to get my 1st (barely) sub-7 Ao100 so, happy with that.


----------



## JanW (Oct 23, 2015)

I tried practicing F2L with metronome, but then I realized it's too early for that. Even at the slowest speeds I couldn't recognize the case and see the solution fast enough, so I kept making too many mistakes and unnecessary moves. Instead I went back to just doing it at my own pace, looking at the case, figuring out what moves are necessary, then execute the moves. I need to work on that for a while to make recognition faster and get more familiar with the different cases.

But practice payed off so far. I did a 53.7 Ao50 today, that's about 6 seconds faster than 3 days ago. I also timed some LL only solves and found I average that in about 15 seconds (with recognition). That puts cross+F2L at almost 40 seconds, so still plenty to shave off. For now I'm aiming at having F2L done in 30 seconds, which should bring total times down to about 45.


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## MarcelP (Oct 23, 2015)

Improvement is here to stay (apparently) 



Spoiler: PB Ao100, Ao50 



Generated By csTimer on 2015-10-23
solves/total: 101/101

single
best: 13.39
worst: 25.43

mean of 3
current: 19.68 (σ = 5.13)
best: 15.57 (σ = 1.95)

avg of 5
current: 18.51 (σ = 1.37)
best: 15.88 (σ = 1.46)

avg of 12
current: 18.08 (σ = 1.39)
best: 16.96 (σ = 0.78)

avg of 50
current: 18.28 (σ = 1.35)
best: *17.80* (σ = 1.44)

avg of 100
current: 18.09 (σ = 1.43)
best: *18.06* (σ = 1.40)

Average: 18.09 (σ = 1.38)
Mean: 18.13


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## h2f (Oct 23, 2015)

Whoa Marcel. Nice!

And me: 18.99 ao5 at the moment. In the middle of the week my best ao5 was around 23 seconds - I had a lot stuff in the job in the last time, but now I have a few days of rest.


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## MarcelP (Oct 23, 2015)

h2f said:


> Whoa Marcel. Nice!
> 
> And me: 18.99 ao5 at the moment. In the middle of the week my best ao5 was around 23 seconds - I had a lot stuff in the job in the last time, but now I have a few days of rest.



Congrats! You will be sub 20 soon. Your dedication is admirable.


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## h2f (Oct 23, 2015)

MarcelP said:


> Congrats! You will be sub 20 soon. Your dedication is admirable.



 I hope so. You and many other cubers writing in this thread are inspiration for me to practice and improve.


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## EvilGnome6 (Oct 23, 2015)

muchacho said:


> I've been practicing with the megaminx, so time consuming... but I like it, I've solved it less that 10 times, with around 20 minutes being the best.
> 
> One question, it's a stickerless yuhu and I have trouble differentiating (at least) one of the colors from other, do you think it would be possible (and competition legal) to spray paint (or maybe just use a permanent marker) to change one of the colors (or two)?



I think it would be up to the delegate's discretion if that changed the feeling of the pieces. I would personally try dyeing the pieces. Rit Dyes come in many colors and some quick searches turned up instructions for dyeing plastic beads. I suspect the instructions would be exactly the same for cube parts.


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## muchacho (Oct 23, 2015)

Thanks, I'll look into that.


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## mark49152 (Oct 23, 2015)

Great to see the wide variety of things other oldies are working on. And nice PBs Marcel 

I'm still concentrating on 3BLD. The majority of my successes are now around 2:20-2:40 but my averages are dragged down by a significant number of more difficult solves of around 3:30+.

I also did some 3x3 speed averages this week expecting my times to be worsened, as they were when I started BLD, but was pleasantly suprised to see them around 18 secs, which is where I've been plateaued for several months now. So not worse, at least


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## muchacho (Oct 23, 2015)

First properly timed (Prisma Puzzle Timer) Megaminx solve, 13:41.64.

I'm trying to see if someday I may come close to a competition worthy time, 5 minutes would be fine? what are usually the cutoff times? 3 minutes?


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## Isaac Lai (Oct 23, 2015)

muchacho said:


> First properly timed (Prisma Puzzle Timer) Megaminx solve, 13:41.64.
> 
> I'm trying to see if someday I may come close to a competition worthy time, 5 minutes would be fine? what are usually the cutoff times? 3 minutes?



Cutoffs are unfortunately usually around 2:30 or 2 minutes. Do you use a specific S2L order?


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## muchacho (Oct 23, 2015)

No, i should? I randomly choose one color, solve the 3 pieces under the center and then I continue to the next color to the right or the left, when all ¿arrows? are finished I put the remaining pieces as I see them.

I add the pieces one by one, I suppose I should learn to make pairs and insert them, right?


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## Isaac Lai (Oct 23, 2015)

muchacho said:


> No, i should? I randomly choose one color, solve the 3 pieces under the center and then I continue to the next color to the right or the left, when all ¿arrows? are finished I put the remaining pieces as I see them.
> 
> I add the pieces one by one, I suppose I should learn to make pairs and insert them, right?



Yeah, it is recommended that you choose an S2L order, because it will make finding pieces easier since you have specific pieces to find. Most people use either Simon Westlund's, Balint Bodor's or Yu Da Hyun's. 

Westlund and Balint: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uxWrXrXlEs0&list=PLJ1BFt1hZm2rIeW_2dpDYuUb6xxD6H3UI&index=3
Balint: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LkLahEn83n4
Yu Da-Hyun: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uE-H3V7XGxE


----------



## chtiger (Oct 23, 2015)

Been practicing 2x2 and 3x3 for comp tomorrow. Usually 200 2x2 solves and 50 3x3 solves per day. I didn't spend much time with Ortega before realizing I'd be better off sticking with layer by layer. My last 2x2 session 


Spoiler



number of times: 100/100
best time: 2.75
worst time: 13.03

current avg5: 6.57 
best avg5: 4.62 

current avg12: 6.49 
best avg12: 5.51 

current avg100: 6.60 
best avg100: 6.60

session avg: 6.60 
session mean: 6.62


My last 3x3 session was 23.56, which was PB for mean of 50. Going to be really annoyed if I don't get sub-10 and sub-30 at comp. 

Also did a few MBLDs. Had a 5/6 which is PB for most cubes solved correct, but it was so close to 6/6. Executed FL edge instead of BL on the last regular target (not counting flipped edge targets) of last cube.


----------



## mafergut (Oct 23, 2015)

MarcelP said:


> Improvement is here to stay (apparently)
> 
> avg of 100
> current: 18.09 (σ = 1.43)
> best: *18.06* (σ = 1.40)



Wow! Congrats. That's a nice Ao100. You are a full second faster than I am. That's a clear motivation for me to improve 

I have continued with 2x2 and it looks like paying some attention to other events (instead of just practicing them just a bit in between 3x3 sessions) is paying off. I am now clearly below 7 seconds average with Ortega, after a 500 solve session.

single
* best: 1.56* --> This was a stupid scramble with a 6-move solution but PB anyway
worst: 12.21 --> Still some sup-10s, but only when I mess up the solve, otherwise most of them are 4-7 seconds.

avg of 5* best: 4.84* (σ = 0.16) --> First sub-5 Ao5. Nice!
avg of 12* best: 5.71* (σ = 0.75) --> Also first sub-6 Ao12.
avg of 50* best: 6.39* (σ = 1.01)
avg of 100* best: 6.51* (σ = 0.96) --> Almost half a second of improvement!

This is the scramble for the 1.56. Can you see the 6-mover?

464. 1.56 F2 R U R2 U2 R2 U2 R2 U' 

I have to say I just saw the OLL skip and was expecting a T or Y perm. I was so astonished by the PBL skip that I wasted some tenths before I stopped the clock. Otherwise it would have been close to 1 sec. Well, 2x2 singles are dumb anyway. I consider the real 2x2 PB to be the Ao5 at the very latest.

EDIT: It's in fact a 5-mover, probably not legit by WCA regulations. Or is it just 4 moves for 2x2?


----------



## chtiger (Oct 23, 2015)

mafergut said:


> This is the scramble for the 1.56. Can you see the 6-mover?
> 
> 464. 1.56 F2 R U R2 U2 R2 U2 R2 U'
> 
> ...



Looks like a 3-mover to me. z' R2 U' R2
Very nice improvement with your 2x2 solves.
My PB is 1.48 on a 4-mover. Scramble F' U' R' F' U F' U2 R' U'. I don't know what WCA regulations are for minimum length.


----------



## mafergut (Oct 23, 2015)

chtiger said:


> Looks like a 3-mover to me. z' R2 U' R2
> Very nice improvement with your 2x2 solves.
> My PB is 1.48 on a 4-mover. Scramble F' U' R' F' U F' U2 R' U'. I don't know what WCA regulations are for minimum length.



Yeah, my doubt was whether the R2s were counted as 1 or 2 moves. I counted them as 2 but if they are to be counted as 1 then the scramble is not legit. I checked WCA regulations and I found this:

4b3b) 2x2x2 Cube: The (random) state must require at least 4 moves to solve.

Nice scramble by the way. Did you see the full solve in inspection?
x' y F' L' U' L 

EDIT: 

12a1) Face Moves:
12a1c) 180 degrees: F2, B2, R2, L2, U2, D2.

12a3) Outer Block Turn Metric (OBTM) is defined as:
12a3a) Each move of the categories Face Moves and Outer Block Moves is counted as 1 move.

So it looks like it is not a legit scramble (just 3 moves), which is strange, as it was generated by csTimer in WCA 2x2x2 configuration.


----------



## muchacho (Oct 23, 2015)

Isaac Lai said:


> Yeah, it is recommended that you choose an S2L order, because it will make finding pieces easier since you have specific pieces to find. Most people use either Simon Westlund's, Balint Bodor's or Yu Da Hyun's.
> 
> Westlund and Balint: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uxWrXrXlEs0&list=PLJ1BFt1hZm2rIeW_2dpDYuUb6xxD6H3UI&index=3
> Balint: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LkLahEn83n4
> Yu Da-Hyun: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uE-H3V7XGxE



Thanks! :tu


----------



## chtiger (Oct 23, 2015)

mafergut said:


> Nice scramble by the way. Did you see the full solve in inspection?
> x' y F' L' U' L



No, I didn't see that it would be solved, so I had that 'wow, it's already solved!' hesitation at the end or it would have been a little faster.


----------



## Logiqx (Oct 23, 2015)

Jason Green said:


> It's been kind of quiet here... It's a little depressing when there aren't any posts to read.
> 
> What else is up?



I've not had so much time for cubing this past week. I've been offered a new job and handed in my notice at work. I'm also in the process of buying a new house and trying to understand the impact of issues reported in the survey. Busy, busy!

I did find time to do some timed solves today. Nice to get some PBs... possibly inspired by Marcel! 

First sub-19 Ao100 and an OH sub-30 Ao5.



Spoiler



2H...
Best of all: 13.034
Best Avg of 5: 17.494
Best Avg of 12: 18.074
Best Avg of 50: 18.790
Best Avg of 100: 18.970
Std Dev: 1.276

OH...
Best of all: 22.820
Best Avg of 5: 28.884
Best Avg of 12: 32.109
Best Avg of 50: 34.288
Std Dev: 3.434


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## bubbagrub (Oct 23, 2015)

mark49152 said:


> Great to see the wide variety of things other oldies are working on.



My goal (not sure how realistic it is!) is to get at least singles in all official events. The ones I don't yet have are:


6x6
7x7
4BLD
5BLD
Square 1
Feet

Of those, I'm going to be attempting feet, Square 1 and 4BLD at the upcoming UK Championships. I don't hold out much hope for 4BLD, but I do hope to beat the hard cut for the other two (5 minutes and 2 minutes for feet and sq-1, respectively).

I started trying feet solves a few weeks ago, and have done some proper practice this past week. My best time is around 3 minutes now. My biggest hurdle (apart from just doing U' and D moves) is the lack of muscle memory meaning the majority of my OLLs and quite a few PLLs are not possible for me. I just started trying to relearn some of the important ones (e.g., 2-look OLLs) for feet.

I quite like square-1, although I have absolutely no idea how people solve it so quickly. The first stage (cube-shape) is still quite an intuitive, slow process for me, and then the rest of it I guess I'm using quite inefficient algorithms. My best time is just over 1 minute but I'm typically more like 2 minutes.


----------



## EvilGnome6 (Oct 24, 2015)

And a lubing tip for the older folks: 



Spoiler



Two or three drops of Pjur Body Glide *ahem* personal lubricant will make any slow cube super fast. It's also good to know that it's non-toxic and non-corrosive. Just in case you were wondering, of course.


----------



## Jason Green (Oct 24, 2015)

EvilGnome6 said:


> And a lubing tip for the older folks:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Haha. I might find some other things to work for my cube now that you have me an idea.


----------



## Jason Green (Oct 24, 2015)

Logiqx said:


> I've not had so much time for cubing this past week. I've been offered a new job and handed in my notice at work. I'm also in the process of buying a new house and trying to understand the impact of issues reported in the survey. Busy, busy!
> 
> I did find time to do some timed solves today. Nice to get some PBs... possibly inspired by Marcel!
> 
> ...


I guess with your PBs we can overlook your limited cubing. Good job on those btw!! Remember, houses and jobs come and go, but cubing is forever.


----------



## cubesp (Oct 24, 2015)

EvilGnome6 said:


> And a lubing tip for the older folks:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



ahahahah
great


----------



## SenorJuan (Oct 24, 2015)

"And a lubing tip for the older folks:...etc"

I wasn't expecting that...I thought this was going to be the answer:






I've never tried it, I don't suppose it would help my dodgy look-ahead, anyway.


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## h2f (Oct 24, 2015)

Incredible session this morning. I've made 10 bld solves and then few warmup solves. I had to make something in the garden and I was back I've made solves breaking my pbs in ao5 and ao 12. It was amazing feeling - my cross was good and fluent, I was finding first f2l very quickly and my lookahead was very good. 

Avg of 5 *17.92* (17.60, 18.37, (17.58), (18.90), 17.78) 

avg of 12: *18.49 *(19.32, (17.24), (22.60), 18.71, 20.83, 17.93, 17.60, 18.37, 17.58, 18.90, 17.78, 17.90).



avg of 12
current: 18.97 (σ = 1.29)
best: 18.49 (σ = 1.01)



Spoiler



single
best: 14.62
worst: 30.66

mean of 3
current: 22.43 (σ = 3.81)
best: 17.85 (σ = 0.45)

avg of 5
current: 20.60 (σ = 0.66)
best: 17.92 (σ = 0.40)

avg of 12
current: 18.97 (σ = 1.29)
best: 18.49 (σ = 1.01)

Average: 21.26 (σ = 2.80)
Mean: 21.48

Time List:
23.38, 21.27, 22.69, 27.88, 23.90, 25.43, 25.00, 20.42, 21.74, 21.03, 29.86, 23.61, 24.09, 21.80, 30.66, 14.62, 20.19, 19.32, 17.24, 22.60, 18.71, 20.83, 17.93, 17.60, 18.37, 17.58, 18.90, 17.78, 17.90, 20.66, 19.92, 19.36, 21.23, 26.70


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## muchacho (Oct 24, 2015)

Wow, your old Ao12 PB was 20.29? Lubed with Pjur for sure.


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## h2f (Oct 24, 2015)

muchacho said:


> Wow, your old Ao12 PB was 20.29? Lubed with Pjur for sure.



 Yeah. Big jump without any cause. I couldnt make ao50 - had to go shopping. 

Few weeks ago someone found out that hair oil (silk maracuja oil) is as good as maru.


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## chtiger (Oct 24, 2015)

Comp thoughts & results -- 2x2 is hard with nervous fingers.
Median age was probably about 12, but that's ok. Still had a couple of parents compete and some 20+ year olds. Supposedly more parents are going to compete at next comp, so that's cool.

2x2 -- Screwed up 3rd solve, couldn't find a starting point and inspection time was running out, panicked and started with no plan. 4th solve got a +2, not sure if I did wrong AUF or cube turned when I dropped it. So kinda slow, but did get sub-10
(7.96), 9.23, (16.05), 9.58, 8.68 = 9.16	

3x3 -- went smooth, a couple of minor errors like F2L pair in wrong slot, but nothing major. Much better than my previous 45 avg
25.26, 26.61, (23.23), (27.76), 25.00 = 25.62


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## cubesp (Oct 24, 2015)

Well done!
Such great avgs!


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## Logiqx (Oct 25, 2015)

h2f said:


> Incredible session this morning. I've made 10 bld solves and then few warmup solves. I had to make something in the garden and I was back I've made solves breaking my pbs in ao5 and ao 12. It was amazing feeling - my cross was good and fluent, I was finding first f2l very quickly and my lookahead was very good.
> 
> Avg of 5 *17.92* (17.60, 18.37, (17.58), (18.90), 17.78)
> 
> ...



Nice! Just need to recreate that flow next time.


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## MarcelP (Oct 25, 2015)

Logiqx said:


> I did find time to do some timed solves today. Nice to get some PBs... possibly inspired by Marcel!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



LOL, very nice!!



h2f said:


> Incredible session this morning. I've made 10 bld solves and then few warmup solves. I had to make something in the garden and I was back I've made solves breaking my pbs in ao5 and ao 12. It was amazing feeling - my cross was good and fluent, I was finding first f2l very quickly and my lookahead was very good.
> 
> Avg of 5 *17.92* (17.60, 18.37, (17.58), (18.90), 17.78)
> 
> ...



That's the way to go!! Keep it up.


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## h2f (Oct 25, 2015)

Logiqx said:


> Nice! Just need to recreate that flow next time.





MarcelP said:


> That's the way to go!! Keep it up.



It's such easy thing.


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## JanW (Oct 25, 2015)

Another Ao50 today, 50.93. Slowly getting faster. Best Ao5 45.2, best single 37.7. I keep messing up when the F2L pieces are paired but not aligned, way too often start sending pieces in the wrong direction. Will continue working on F2L and hopefully get close to 45s in a week or so.


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## mafergut (Oct 25, 2015)

C'mon! I'm trying to improve at 4x4 but I can't break the 2min barrier.
I need some advice. Maybe, Mike, you can help me here. I either am very unlucky or else I'm missing some important step in Yau when pairing the edges. As soon as I put the 4th cross edge pair in place I just randomly choose the edge half piece I have in the top left of the front face and put the other in the down right... same thing three times, then I slice the top to the right to pair the 3 edges and start putting in the left bottom the ones needed to pair up another 3 when I undo the slice. Then, if everything goes right either I have all them done or I'm missing two and I do them with the specific alg for Yau.

Okay, when I'm trying to set up the 3 pairs for undoing the slice, 4 times in a row it happened that the second piece I need to set up is already on the bottom of the 1st one so I cannot properly set them all up and end up with 3 unpaired edges, which takes additional time to pair up  Sometimes this happens during the 1st stage of edge pairing but in that case I just start again with a different edge.

Is there something I'm doing wrong or is it just a case of bad luck?

I also keep having OLL parity much more frequently than 50% of the time.

EDIT: Finally!!! My first sub-2, but still a lot of sup-2:30 because of the aforementioned issue with edge pairing

29. 1:57.38 R2 B2 Fw' D2 B L Uw2 D' F2 B Rw D' R' L2 Rw2 D' Uw2 Fw B' F2 D2 Rw2 B2 R2 L2 Fw' D F2 U' Uw R' Rw2 B2 U Fw2 D Rw2 L2 B' L2

EDIT2: I just ordered a Cubicle Premium Meiying as a self-gift for Christimas, just to check how well these guys lube and sticker cubes... and because my current main is the Yueying and I still didn't have a Meiying, of course.


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## moralsh (Oct 25, 2015)

Mafergut, That was also the first method of pairing I tried, and I sticked a lot with it, but I think what I do now is faster.

After placing the last cross edge I slice the top half of the cube to the left, pair the 3 edge and slice back to pair the 3 edges. After that I just pair 1 left and 1 back until there are no edges left or I have to do the last 2 case, the good thing about this method is that the lookahead is better because when you slice back the first time you can see all that is left to pair up and is way easier to deal with skips than with 3-3-1-1. Try it out and ask any doubts about pairing that way.

Also, awesome times everybody, I'm lagging behind!


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## Logiqx (Oct 25, 2015)

Yup. 3-2-3 pairing is the way to go after the last cross piece. Slice the top then set up so that 3 pairs will be solved when you slice back. Solve another 2 pairs with slice once and slice back. Solve another 2 pairs in exactly the same way which will by definition solve the last one as well... 3-2-3. There are a few scenarios which can crop up but you'll figure them out with experience.

Sent from my GT-I9305 using Tapatalk


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## h2f (Oct 25, 2015)

I do the same like you both. Earlier i did 3 3 2 like mafergut but found 3 2 3 is a better way to pair edges. 

patataj patataj patataj


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## Jason Green (Oct 26, 2015)

I was happy with my sub 30 race this week... didn't get under 30 but had one of my better Ao5. My two worse times were some of my new OLLs I thought I knew but messed up. 

https://www.speedsolving.com/forum/...ce-to-Sub-25&p=1125736&viewfull=1#post1125736


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## Logiqx (Oct 26, 2015)

Logiqx said:


> Yup. 3-2-3 pairing is the way to go after the last cross piece. Slice the top then set up so that 3 pairs will be solved when you slice back. Solve another 2 pairs with slice once and slice back. Solve another 2 pairs in exactly the same way which will by definition solve the last one as well... 3-2-3. There are a few scenarios which can crop up but you'll figure them out with experience.
> 
> Sent from my GT-I9305 using Tapatalk


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## newtonbase (Oct 26, 2015)

Same here. I did 3-3-2 (I knew it as 6-2) which is quick if there are no complications but 3-2-3 is better more often. The linked video was the best I found too. I'm now slightly less slow.


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## mark49152 (Oct 26, 2015)

Yeah I also use 323 and that was one of the videos I learned from. I do one thing differently now though. At 5:00 he explains how he swaps the front inserts between FR and FL. Instead of solving yellow/green on FL, I would insert yellow/blue to the lower part of FR. That way you're always inserting and solving to FR, which I find quicker - fewer regrips. It also forces you to look ahead a bit more, because you have to look at the upper edge piece (yellow/blue) before slicing it to the back.


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## h2f (Oct 26, 2015)

I do the same as Mark - after doing the first 3 pairs I try to pair all on FR. For example before Uw' I put the edge in FR to pair FLu and FRd and then I look at FRu. I make Uw' and put the edge in FRd to pair FR when I do Uw. Of course sometimes it cant be made but in 90% of cases I do that way.


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## mafergut (Oct 26, 2015)

newtonbase said:


> Same here. I did 3-3-2 (I knew it as 6-2) which is quick if there are no complications but 3-2-3 is better more often. The linked video was the best I found too. I'm now slightly less slow.



Yeah, that's what happens, when there are no complications with cycles between two edge pieces being "cross-paired", this way is super-fast, some times it is just 3-3-nothing as the two last ones will end up paired too but I'm starting to realize that I find this kinds of cycles too often for it to be consistently fast way to pair.

Thanks for the info and the links to you all. I will definitely check 3-2-3 out and try to implement it. I assume that these cycles can also happen, so does that simply happen less often in 3-2-3? Is it easier to spot / correct?

Now that I realize, I also had some problems with 3-3-2 (or 6-2) when by chance I had already one or 2 pre-made edge pairs, which I checked for and put on the top layer to preserve them. I should have been intelligent enough to do, in those cases, a 4-2 instead of a 6-2, as sometimes I ran out of edges to pair in the slice back part of the 6  I have sooo much to learn yet about big cubes...

Yesterday I also tried to do a 5x5 solve (I must have solved my new CB 5x5 no more than 3-4 times yet) and I realized that I have also a lot to learn about 5x5 centers and free-slice "tredge" pairing. I can manage to solve it but it takes like... ages, right now. The last bar of the 3x3 centers in particular does give me a hard time currently when it does not want to match up and I need to rotate one part of it to match it with the other, not sure if you follow my poor explanations. This must become easier with practice as it is totally intuitive so, I need so much practice also with 5x5


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## Logiqx (Oct 26, 2015)

There are a couple of other special cases which aren't mentioned in this video.

One of them is whilst pairing 3 edges and you find the third edge piece is stuck under the first edge piece. Essentially you slice back and do the last 6 edges with 2 pairing. When you get more familiar with this case you actually slice back twice so that you flow seamlessly into 2 pairing. This essentially ends up being 2-2-2-2 and happens 1 solve in 11.

The other case is where the last 4 edges look like 2 distinct groups of edges. I won't attempt to describe it in words but you'll find it in a video by Felix - Yau walkthroughs. The other case I described above also appears in his video somewhere.


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## muchacho (Oct 26, 2015)

Regarding Megaminx and being a Roux solver with no experience with CFOP (and no real interest in learning it)... currently I insert the pieces one by one, should I just learn intuitively to make pairs and insert them? Or learn algs? Are there any videos I could benefit from? Any Megaminx especific videos about this maybe?


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## moralsh (Oct 26, 2015)

muchacho said:


> Regarding Megaminx and being a Roux solver with no experience with CFOP (and no real interest in learning it)... currently I insert the pieces one by one, should I just learn intuitively to make pairs and insert them? Or learn algs? Are there any videos I could benefit from? Any Megaminx especific videos about this maybe?



You should know pairing better than many CFOP users, F2B has a lot of that. just imagine that instead of pairing using the M layer you have to do it with the outer layers


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## muchacho (Oct 26, 2015)

I guess it has something to do with not knowing the color scheme "very well" and by just have been trying it a few minutes, but for now it's pretty difficult for me to make pairs and I feel dumb, I was hoping there was any trick or something.


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## chtiger (Oct 26, 2015)

Jason Green said:


> I was happy with my sub 30 race this week... didn't get under 30 but had one of my better Ao5. My two worse times were some of my new OLLs I thought I knew but messed up.
> 
> https://www.speedsolving.com/forum/...ce-to-Sub-25&p=1125736&viewfull=1#post1125736



Nice. Weren't you averaging about 50 not long ago? 
You learned a lot of OLL's at once, so not surprising that you will mess some up.


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## muchacho (Oct 26, 2015)

I've done a megaminx solve making pairs, it was hard and slow, 25 minutes instead of 12 or so, but it was the first try so I'm happy with that.

In S2L I was doing pairs like this:


Is that ok or are there better ways?


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## Jason Green (Oct 26, 2015)

chtiger said:


> Nice. Weren't you averaging about 50 not long ago?
> You learned a lot of OLL's at once, so not surprising that you will mess some up.


Yeah I started speed cubing around July, but knew how to solve with Petrus in 2 minutes or so. The progress was pretty fast and fun, but I've been at about 32 seconds for at least two weeks now.  Still fun though, just takes longer to improve.


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## Sergeant Baboon (Oct 26, 2015)

muchacho said:


> I guess it has something to do with not knowing the color scheme "very well" and by just have been trying it a few minutes, but for now it's pretty difficult for me to make pairs and I feel dumb, I was hoping there was any trick or something.



There's no trick that I know of; the more you practice, the faster and easier pairbuilding will be for you. Getting used to your color scheme is vital for mega and that just comes with a bunch of solves. Same thing for building pairs without the M slice--practice a bunch and it will become natural.


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## JanW (Oct 26, 2015)

I'm curious, when you more experienced cubers plan the cross during inspection, do you think of the solution like an algorithm, or just visualize it somehow, or something else? I mean, do you look at what needs to be done and think "R B U2 F2 D2" or more like "this goes there, then this there..."? I've been practicing some blind crosses and found I have a higher success rate if I spell out the algorithm in my mind, but it also takes longer to memorize the solution that way. It's faster for me to just visualize the movements of the pieces, but it also leads to more mistakes. Not sure which of these methods I should keep practicing.


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## mafergut (Oct 26, 2015)

muchacho said:


> I guess it has something to do with not knowing the color scheme "very well" and by just have been trying it a few minutes, but for now it's pretty difficult for me to make pairs and I feel dumb, I was hoping there was any trick or something.



Well, yeah, I solve Mega by pairing again and again F2L style but I agree that being a Roux solver you should be able to apply your block building skills to F2L pair building. Being color neutral (which I am not, only dual white/yellow) would also help for a CFOP solver but, as a Roux solver, you must be used to pair corners to pieces where the pieces do not exactly form a "proper F2L pair" so the better for you.

It is important, though, not only to know your color scheme but to develop a specific order in wich you do things, as this helps you find the correct pieces. For example. I always do the 5 white edges, and then the 5 white F2L pairs, after that I always continue with red, by placing the two other red edges and inserting the 3 F2L pairs that have red as "cross / bottom color". Then I go to the left with dark blue, placing the missing dark blue edge and inserting the two pairs with blue "bottom", then to the left again until just the last face but the top (grey) face is missing. I do that and then just LL on grey.


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## muchacho (Oct 26, 2015)

Yeah, I'll start doing a fixed order from now (well, once I receive the stickered yuhu, because with the stickerless I have some issues with colors, I will not make many more solves with it since I won't improve much from solving it).

First color and the path is usually randomly choosen or is there something to take into consideration? Do people rearrange the colors of each face to try to avoid having similar pieces or it doesn't matter that much assuming you have a good selection of colors?


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## mafergut (Oct 26, 2015)

muchacho said:


> Yeah, I'll start doing a fixed order from now (well, once I receive the stickered yuhu, because with the stickerless I have some issues with colors, I will not make many more solves with it since I won't improve much from solving it).
> 
> First color and the path is usually randomly choosen or is there something to take into consideration? Do people rearrange the colors of each face to try to avoid having similar pieces or it doesn't matter that much assuming you have a good selection of colors?



If you had told me sooner we could have exchanged Yuhus, as I'm already hating my stickered one (black plastic) because the stickers ar so tiny due to the raising the pieces have for added grip and would have liked a stickerless one better. And as we both live in spain maybe we could have interchanged them  Maybe we're even neighbours, hehehe. Anyway, I have ordered a Shengshou as I'm also fed up of the instability, the layers move all the time when you try to grip the puzzle and cause a lot of lockups. Don't know if that happens to you too.

I took the idea of starting with white, then red and always to the left from some more expert megaminxer here in the forum. I have read somebody name some methods that I assume are just recommended order of solving but I have not checked those, I just decided to go with red just because  Anyway, I have just started with Mega (maybe 15 timed solves and like another 15 untimed ones) and my times are still quite slow, being my best like 6:45 so, not an expert. Isaac Lai, are you there and can help us?


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## Logiqx (Oct 26, 2015)

JanW said:


> I'm curious, when you more experienced cubers plan the cross during inspection, do you think of the solution like an algorithm, or just visualize it somehow, or something else? I mean, do you look at what needs to be done and think "R B U2 F2 D2" or more like "this goes there, then this there..."? I've been practicing some blind crosses and found I have a higher success rate if I spell out the algorithm in my mind, but it also takes longer to memorize the solution that way. It's faster for me to just visualize the movements of the pieces, but it also leads to more mistakes. Not sure which of these methods I should keep practicing.



I visualise the movement of the pieces and try to think how I will finger trick it. I don't use actual notation to remember it.

In some ways it is similar to how I remember PIN numbers. I tend to remember the shape on the keypad rather than the actual numbers.


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## mafergut (Oct 26, 2015)

Logiqx said:


> I visualise the movement of the pieces and try to think how I will finger trick it. I don't use actual notation to remember it.
> 
> In some ways it is similar to how I remember PIN numbers. I tend to remember the shape on the keypad rather than the actual numbers.



Same here, even though I don't consider myself an experienced cuber 
I just visualize the movement of the pieces and how I will actually execute it, no cube notation involved.


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## muchacho (Oct 26, 2015)

mafergut said:


> If you had told me sooner we could have exchanged Yuhus, as I'm already hating my stickered one (black plastic) because the stickers ar so tiny due to the raising the pieces have for added grip and would have liked a stickerless one better. And as we both live in spain maybe we could have interchanged them  Maybe we're even neighbours, hehehe. Anyway, I have ordered a Shengshou as I'm also fed up of the instability, the layers move all the time when you try to grip the puzzle and cause a lot of lockups. Don't know if that happens to you too.
> 
> I took the idea of starting with white, then red and always to the left from some more expert megaminxer here in the forum. I have read somebody name some methods that I assume are just recommended order of solving but I have not checked those, I just decided to go with red just because  Anyway, I have just started with Mega (maybe 15 timed solves and like another 15 untimed ones) and my times are still quite slow, being my best like 6:45 so, not an expert. Isaac Lai, are you there and can help us?



Probably shipping in Spain would not be that much cheaper than ordering a new yuhu (I've ordered a white one), and the stickerless is nice as just a decoration item. I'm hoping the small stickers are not a big problem (that's why I ordered the stickerless). I have some lockups, maybe they are mostly my fault, but since I have no experience I don't know how bad it is... but at my speed they don't bother me.


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## mafergut (Oct 26, 2015)

muchacho said:


> Probably shipping in Spain would not be that much cheaper than ordering a new yuhu (I've ordered a white one), and the stickerless is nice as just a decoration item. I'm hoping the small stickers are not a big problem (that's why I ordered the stickerless). I have some lockups, maybe they are mostly my fault, but since I have no experience I don't know how bad it is... but at my speed they don't bother me.



Well, the interchange of Yuhus was just a funny comment more than anything, as you are right, even within Spain the shipping would just cost more than the Yuhu ordered from China, which makes me think that there's something wrong in the world  I'm used to having lockups on 3x3 because incorrect alignment of the faces I'm moving but with the Yuhu I have lockups because faces I'm just grasping turn very easily. Maybe I don't know yet how to properly hold the thing in my hands but, even when I am, e.g., rotating LL corners to finish the Mega, with the beginners corner rotation alg, I have unintended face misalignment and, at this stage the Mega is sitting on the table so, it's like this thing has life of its own.

Tell me how you like it (or not) once you have some time to get familiar with your new stickered one.


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## Jason Green (Oct 26, 2015)

JanW said:


> I'm curious, when you more experienced cubers plan the cross during inspection, do you think of the solution like an algorithm, or just visualize it somehow, or something else? I mean, do you look at what needs to be done and think "R B U2 F2 D2" or more like "this goes there, then this there..."? I've been practicing some blind crosses and found I have a higher success rate if I spell out the algorithm in my mind, but it also takes longer to memorize the solution that way. It's faster for me to just visualize the movements of the pieces, but it also leads to more mistakes. Not sure which of these methods I should keep practicing.


I just visualize it. One thing I saw online was to initially do cross either on correct sides or opposites. That is easy to think of. Although I will now do it under any color. I really don't think of any algs when I'm solving as far as the turn names.


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## JanW (Oct 26, 2015)

Logiqx said:


> I visualise the movement of the pieces and try to think how I will finger trick it.





mafergut said:


> Same here





Jason Green said:


> I just visualize it.


Okay, I'll be aiming at that. I suppose the reason I make more mistakes that way is that I do it faster. Must slow down.



> One thing I saw online was to initially do cross either on correct sides or opposites. That is easy to think of. Although I will now do it under any color.


Yes, noticed this also. It's much easier to build it under correct or opposite colors. If I build it at 90 degree rotation, I get the opposites correct, but then the other pair of opposites is easily the wrong way around. I suppose this comes with experience.


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## MarcelP (Oct 27, 2015)

h2f said:


> It's such easy thing.


Well, you beat me in all events in weekly contest week 43.. There was a time when that was not the case.. LOL. It seems like it is an easy thing for you nowadays...


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## Isaac Lai (Oct 27, 2015)

mafergut said:


> I took the idea of starting with white, then red and always to the left from some more expert megaminxer here in the forum. I have read somebody name some methods that I assume are just recommended order of solving but I have not checked those, I just decided to go with red just because  Anyway, I have just started with Mega (maybe 15 timed solves and like another 15 untimed ones) and my times are still quite slow, being my best like 6:45 so, not an expert. Isaac Lai, are you there and can help us?



Here


Isaac Lai said:


> Westlund and Balint: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uxWrXrXlEs0&list=PLJ1BFt1hZm2rIeW_2dpDYuUb6xxD6H3UI&index=3
> Balint: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LkLahEn83n4
> Yu Da-Hyun (the one that you use): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uE-H3V7XGxE



Btw not many fast people use Yu Da-Hyun's S2L order because there are so few resources on it. However, I believe I read somewhere that Rob Yau uses it. I also use it (switched from Westlund), and I find that transition from solving a 3x3 is slightly easier because instead of thinking of it as S2L, a whole new step, you are thinking of it as more of just cross+F2L. I do white star, then rotate so that purple is on bottom, and my last layer is on pink (I chose these colours only because they were the easiest to do the first time I tried this order). Also, the pieces you know you need to find are more specific, so lookahead is somewhat easier.


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## mark49152 (Oct 27, 2015)

JanW said:


> Okay, I'll be aiming at that. I suppose the reason I make more mistakes that way is that I do it faster. Must slow down.


Like the others, I visualize or imagine the movements. I did quite a lot of blind cross practice, about 2000 solves, and found a very clear pattern to fast and slow crosses. 

For me, fast crosses tend to have a single flowing movement, and that's more important than tps. So I try to find a solution that is finger-friendly with no regrips or switches from right to left hand etc., and I try to imagine executing it as one flowing movement. Wide turns and M slices can be useful sometimes.

If a cross solution clearly breaks into sections, I tend to execute it in sections, and that makes me slower, even at faster tps. If I videoed it I bet I would see a pause in between sections, even though I don't feel like I pause.


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## h2f (Oct 27, 2015)

MarcelP said:


> Well, you beat me in all events in weekly contest week 43.. There was a time when that was not the case.. LOL. It seems like it is an easy thing for you nowadays...



Oh, I didnt notice it. I think about it only as a matter of luck.  But it was close to inverse our places in 4x4 - I didnt practice it for few weeks and my times are worse and worse. 

I'm going to take part in more events in weekly comp this week - I wont have as many things to do in my job like in last 4 weeks.


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## h2f (Oct 27, 2015)

Isaac Lai said:


> Here
> 
> 
> Btw not many fast people use Yu Da-Hyun's S2L order because there are so few resources on it. However, I believe I read somewhere that Rob Yau uses it. I also use it (switched from Westlund), and I find that transition from solving a 3x3 is slightly easier because instead of thinking of it as S2L, a whole new step, you are thinking of it as more of just cross+F2L. I do white star, then rotate so that purple is on bottom, and my last layer is on pink (I chose these colours only because they were the easiest to do the first time I tried this order). Also, the pieces you know you need to find are more specific, so lookahead is somewhat easier.



Isaac, thanks for resources. I dont practice mega but maybe I will start it after watching it.


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## Isaac Lai (Oct 27, 2015)

h2f said:


> Isaac, thanks for resources. I dont practice mega but maybe I will start it after watching it.



You're welcome. Other resources shouldn't be too hard to find (Cubing World has quite a bit). Likewise I am also starting to get into BLD(learning turbo now)


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## muchacho (Oct 27, 2015)

I'll try Yu Da Hun order.

About building the faces during S2L, apparently both Westlund and Balint solve one edge under the center, then insert the pair under the center.

Would it be harder to build it this other way (first 2 pairs and then the remaining edge on the left)? Less efficient?
View attachment 5589


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## h2f (Oct 27, 2015)

Isaac Lai said:


> You're welcome. Other resources shouldn't be too hard to find (Cubing World has quite a bit). Likewise I am also starting to get into BLD(learning turbo now)



I found Cubing World as a great source for almost every event. Good to know they got good tuts for mega. 

For 2 weeks I am also back to turbo - I knew that method earlier but didnt practice it. Now I do.


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## Isaac Lai (Oct 27, 2015)

muchacho said:


> I'll try Yu Da Hun order.
> 
> About building the faces during S2L, apparently both Westlund and Balint solve one edge under the center, then insert the pair under the center.
> 
> ...



The thing about how you solve the pairs is that inserting that one edge sucks compared to normal pairing. I understand why you would do this though since you are a Roux solver and do not do F2L but I really think that sticking to the "conventional" method (inserting that edge in 1 first) is definitely better.


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## newtonbase (Oct 27, 2015)

On holiday and I have a few hours to myself for a change. Did my first ever timed 2x2 AO12 and it was appalling. My worst time was slower than my worst 3x3 of the day. I scraped under 20s for the average. 

However I did get a 3BLD (3.12) PB and a low 2 mins on 4x4 which might be a PB. Also a sub 5min 5x5 which is hard cut off for the UKs.


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## mafergut (Oct 27, 2015)

JanW said:


> Okay, I'll be aiming at that. I suppose the reason I make more mistakes that way is that I do it faster. Must slow down.
> 
> 
> Yes, noticed this also. It's much easier to build it under correct or opposite colors. If I build it at 90 degree rotation, I get the opposites correct, but then the other pair of opposites is easily the wrong way around. I suppose this comes with experience.



Yeah, I assume that's a technique that helps a lot for being CN. I am just dual color neutral (white / yellow) and in this case it is very easy to know by heart the order of the colors (blue-red-green-orange for white and the other way around for yellow), but don't ask me right now the order of colors for, e.g. blue cross, I just know they are white, red/orange, yellow, red/orange but don't know which one, so, more or less what you just said. When I try cross on other colors I always use some seconds during inspection to review the color scheme for that cross color but the solve is nowhere near as fluid as with white/yellow.


----------



## muchacho (Oct 27, 2015)

Isaac Lai said:


> The thing about how you solve the pairs is that inserting that one edge sucks compared to normal pairing. I understand why you would do this though since you are a Roux solver and do not do F2L but I really think that sticking to the "conventional" method (inserting that edge in 1 first) is definitely better.



Thanks, I'll use the conventional way then.


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## mafergut (Oct 27, 2015)

Isaac Lai said:


> Btw not many fast people use Yu Da-Hyun's S2L order because there are so few resources on it. However, I believe I read somewhere that Rob Yau uses it. I also use it (switched from Westlund), and I find that transition from solving a 3x3 is slightly easier because instead of thinking of it as S2L, a whole new step, you are thinking of it as more of just cross+F2L. I do white star, then rotate so that purple is on bottom, and my last layer is on pink (I chose these colours only because they were the easiest to do the first time I tried this order). Also, the pieces you know you need to find are more specific, so lookahead is somewhat easier.



It is funny but I just realized I use Westlund in the exact same way as described in the 1st video with just one difference: I go around clockwise and I always start with red. Not sure anymore if I came up with that method intuitively or after seeing a solve by Spanish cuber Alberto Pérez de Rada (APdRF1) but it feels comfortable to me. Actually, watching the vague video of Yu Da-Hyun I didn't really get anything, it looked like the same method as Westlund to me.


----------



## Logiqx (Oct 27, 2015)

mafergut said:


> Yeah, I assume that's a technique that helps a lot for being CN. I am just dual color neutral (white / yellow) and in this case it is very easy to know by heart the order of the colors (blue-red-green-orange for white and the other way around for yellow), but don't ask me right now the order of colors for, e.g. blue cross, I just know they are white, red/orange, yellow, red/orange but don't know which one, so, more or less what you just said. When I try cross on other colors I always use some seconds during inspection to review the color scheme for that cross color but the solve is nowhere near as fluid as with white/yellow.



Oddly, I still don't know the colour scheme for green/blue/red/orange off the top of my head. I just glance at 2 centres to confirm the order whilst planning the cross. Whenever I get two opposite cross pieces mixed up it's always on a yellow or white cross which are the colours where I actually know the order!

Nice session this lunch time... Ao12 (17.63) and Ao50 (18.59).


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## muchacho (Oct 27, 2015)

A 30.42 seconds Ao5 (I average 32-33),






Should I focus in something in particular?

I did all the solves with the same color, I'm still usually slower with others.

I know about half of CMLLs, but with half of them I'm probably slower than 2-look.



Spoiler: times and scrambles



29.727 L2 F2 D R2 D2 B2 U L2 D2 R2 F2 R F' D B' F2 D' L2 B L' U
35.645 R2 L2 U' B2 R2 L2 U' R2 U L2 B R' D2 R2 B' L' U' B' D' L' F2 U'
27.814 R2 F2 L2 U L2 U' B2 D' L2 U2 R2 B' R2 F' L' B F' D R2 F' U
28.224 D F2 U R2 D2 R2 D' R2 D' L2 B2 R L' U' R2 D L2 F' L' B' U2 R'
33.310 L2 B2 F2 D' B2 U R2 B2 F2 D' F2 L R2 B2 R' D' R2 F' L' D2 B R


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## mafergut (Oct 27, 2015)

muchacho said:


> A 30.42 seconds Ao5 (I average 32-33),
> 
> Should I focus in something in particular?
> 
> ...



I don't know a lot about Roux (I learned the basics some time ago and I was around 50 sec average) but I'd say you have a decent FB and LSE but your second block has significant pauses to search for pieces. I also wonder (or maybe I am interpreting your solves all wrong) why you seem to do EO before CMLL as I think most people do CMLL before. In fact I assumed that the most efficient (short) CMLL algs don't even preserve EO so I'm just a bit puzzled here. Not completely sure, as I never learned any CMLL, I just used 2x2 OLLs to orient the corners and T/Y perm to permute them afterwards. And yeah, your CMLL could be a bit faster too, but I'd focus mainly on SB first and try to learn full 1L CMLL as a bonus.


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## h2f (Oct 27, 2015)

I keep improving which is very surprising me, cause it came out of nowhere. I was going to practice crosses but had no time to do it. Today's session gave pbs in ao 5 (17.43), ao 50 (20.48) and ao100 (20.91). I'm only a second to sub-20 in ao100. 


Spoiler



solves/total: 100/100

single
best: 15.94
worst: 31.59

mean of 3
current: 19.17 (σ = 2.99)
best: 17.89 (σ = 1.90)

avg of 5
current: 19.89 (σ = 1.87)
best: 17.43 (σ = 0.86)

avg of 12
current: 20.79 (σ = 1.74)
best: 19.12 (σ = 1.35)

avg of 50
current: 20.52 (σ = 2.13)
best: 20.48 (σ = 2.00)

avg of 100
current: 20.91 (σ = 2.17)
best: 20.91 (σ = 2.17)

Average: 20.91 (σ = 2.17)
Mean: 21.08

Time List:
19.36, 20.17, 22.99, 19.68, 23.87, 20.71, 23.20, 25.34, 20.94, 22.20, 25.28, 20.40, 20.14, 22.04, 22.96, 18.30, 19.07, 22.12, 19.48, 24.03, 24.80, 22.43, 25.51, 22.73, 18.70, 20.23, 17.45, 20.56, 26.82, 17.50, 20.18, 18.98, 19.64, 24.74, 17.68, 20.04, 18.92, 20.13, 28.66, 18.80, 18.93, 22.67, 23.02, 18.59, 21.86, 20.13, 17.62, 23.99, 23.28, 20.90, 20.09, 26.20, 21.02, 19.45, 22.04, 18.31, 16.60, 19.99, 17.39, 16.30, 20.38, 19.54, 20.36, 18.46, 31.59, 20.01, 20.14, 21.02, 21.46, 27.05, 29.87, 20.96, 23.10, 22.27, 25.04, 21.30, 18.92, 20.10, 17.15, 16.71, 20.59, 19.44, 17.80, 18.59,19.94, 22.02, 19.02, 20.23, 19.08, 20.64, 22.54, 18.98, 21.68, 26.14, 23.23, 22.08, 18.10, 19.76, 21.82, 15.94


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## MarcelP (Oct 27, 2015)

muchacho said:


> A 30.42 seconds Ao5 (I average 32-33),
> 
> Should I focus in something in particular?



Very nice! Your L6E is very good compared to the total time. I saw two weaknesses. F2B are not very efficient. Well, without reconstructions it is hard to tell, but I think I saw too many moves. And during F2B your pause a lot to find your next pair.. This could be fixed by training lookahead. Unfortunatly I think lookahead on Roux is harder than on CFOP since edges can be on the bottom.


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## muchacho (Oct 27, 2015)

mafergut said:


> I don't know a lot about Roux (I learned the basics some time ago and I was around 50 sec average) but I'd say you have a decent FB and LSE but your second block has significant pauses to search for pieces. I also wonder (or maybe I am interpreting your solves all wrong) why you seem to do EO before CMLL as I think most people do CMLL before. In fact I assumed that the most efficient (short) CMLL algs don't even preserve EO so I'm just a bit puzzled here. Not completely sure, as I never learned any CMLL, I just used 2x2 OLLs to orient the corners and T/Y perm to permute them afterwards. And yeah, your CMLL could be a bit faster too, but I'd focus mainly on SB first and try to learn full 1L CMLL as a bonus.



I think I did CMLL right after F2B in those solves ****edit: yes, you are correct, in some of the solves I'm removing bad edgest between the first and second step of CMLL **** (although in the past sometimes I removed bad edges before the first step of CMLL, or after the first step or after the second).

Maybe I should be learning how each CMLL affect EO but that's too much information for now.


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## muchacho (Oct 27, 2015)

MarcelP said:


> Very nice! Your L6E is very good compared to the total time. I saw two weaknesses. F2B are not very efficient. Well, without reconstructions it is hard to tell, but I think I saw too many moves. And during F2B your pause a lot to find your next pair.. This could be fixed by training lookahead. Unfortunatly I think lookahead on Roux is harder than on CFOP since edges can be on the bottom.



My L6E is improving in speed, but it has some pauses and it's not more efficient, and the same happens to the F2B. Lookahead may have improved a little, but when I'm rushing I get lost easily.

I'll try to reconstruct some of the solves. I hope some of them have less than 70 moves.


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## muchacho (Oct 27, 2015)

Impressive, you are on fire!



h2f said:


> I keep improving which is very surprising me, cause it came out of nowhere. I was going to practice crosses but had no time to do it. Today's session gave pbs in ao 5 (17.43), ao 50 (20.48) and ao100 (20.91). I'm only a second to sub-20 in ao100.
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> ...


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## h2f (Oct 27, 2015)

muchacho said:


> A 30.42 seconds Ao5 (I average 32-33),
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=13XHK83MNn0
> 
> ...



You should focus on your FB and SB. In the beginning it's hard to plan whole FB, so you should plan 2x2x1 in few moves. FB you can made in no more than 9 moves. Try focus to do the square in 5-6 moves and try to plan it in preinspection. Your 2-look cmll is very good in this stage. Soon it will come time to learn all cmlls. Also LSE is ok. At this stage if you do better FB/SB you will be easily sub-30. 

And try to improve your efficency. For exapmle during first solve when you got a 2x2x1 and a edge in the back you could do D' U' R2 D to finish your FB instead of taking an edge adding a corner to make pair with M moves and inserting it. There few tricks like this but you can find it only making untimed solves.

For example first solve I would do like this:
y' x' U' R' M2 D' // square
B U' M2 B // FB (8 moves)
r U2 R U' r2 U R U' R' U' M' U R' U R U' R' U r // long sb, not best  but nice fingertricks
R U R' U R U2 R' // sune
U R U R' F' R U R' U' R' F R2 U' R' // perm J
M U2 M U2 M U' M // EO
U'M2 U M' U2 M U2

alg.cubing.net


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## muchacho (Oct 27, 2015)

In untimed solves for the first square I try sometimes inserting it that way, but I'm not doing it yet on timed solves (and anyway I usually just don't see that move in time). Yeah, probably it's in F2B where I can improve more time, I'll work on being more efficient on that, but it's also the hardest part 

I think I always try to avoid using B/B' moves, are they comfortable to you?


Oh, I think you are the first subscriber to my youtube channel, thanks! 


That D' U' R2 D have never occurred to me, amazing :tu


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## mafergut (Oct 27, 2015)

muchacho said:


> Oh, I think you are the first subscriber to my youtube channel, thanks!



Now I'm subscribed too


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## muchacho (Oct 27, 2015)

Great, once I reach 10k I'll do a subscribers giveaway


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## Jason Green (Oct 27, 2015)

muchacho said:


> Great, once I reach 10k I'll do a subscribers giveaway [emoji14]


I'll probably be subscribing tonight when I'm home.


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## h2f (Oct 27, 2015)

muchacho said:


> Yeah, probably it's in F2B where I can improve more time, I'll work on being more efficient on that, but it's also the hardest part
> 
> I think I always try to avoid using B/B' moves, are they comfortable to you?



Yeah, f2b give a lot space to improve. And it's very hard. It was one of the reasons I stopped Roux solves - I could only sometimes plan entire FB. But there's some tricks I use sometimes. B/B' moves are not the best, but I've noticed a lot of Roux solves do it. You can do it like x' U/U'.



muchacho said:


> Oh, I think you are the first subscriber to my youtube channel, thanks!
> 
> 
> Great, once I reach 10k I'll do a subscribers giveaway


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## Jason Green (Oct 27, 2015)

muchacho said:


> Great, once I reach 10k I'll do a subscribers giveaway [emoji14]


Subscriber number 3. When we are rich and famous cubers we can go on late night TV together and tell how I was your third subscriber when we both averaged 30 seconds! [emoji12] These are the silly thoughts that go through my head sometimes.


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## Jason Green (Oct 27, 2015)

Ok I definitely just had a LL skip!  Only got 23 seconds though.


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## LL Cool Skip (Oct 28, 2015)

Just a couple of 4x4 solves. I would've went on but did the same scramble twice and rage quit. Nothing special but everyone should learn Hoya.


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## h2f (Oct 28, 2015)

LL Cool Skip said:


> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g62O8chdwq0
> 
> Just a couple of 4x4 solves. I would've went on but did the same scramble twice and rage quit. Nothing special but everyone should learn Hoya.



I was trying Hoya in 5x5 but switched to pure reduction. But maybe I will give a try.


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## christmasx2 (Oct 29, 2015)

*Older Cubers/ Competitions*

How many of you old cubers (40 or older) have gone to competitions?


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## newtonbase (Oct 29, 2015)

I've been to one so far. I was the oldest there by over a decade at 42. My next is the UKs on 7/8 Nov.


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## muchacho (Oct 29, 2015)

Look here: (it includes usernames)
https://www.speedsolving.com/forum/showthread.php?54128-How-fast-are-the-over-40-s-in-competitions

Are you old too?


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## h2f (Oct 29, 2015)

I've been at 8 competiotions so far and I'm going to go to 9th in 3 weeks. I january it will be 2 years since I've started competing.

BTW. Marcel - nice ao5 in weekly competiotion. I dont have hope to beat it.


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## MarcelP (Oct 29, 2015)

h2f said:


> I've been at 8 competiotions so far and I'm going to go to 9th in 3 weeks. I january it will be 2 years since I've started competing.
> 
> BTW. Marcel - nice ao5 in weekly competiotion. I dont have hope to beat it.


LOL yeah... and I did a few warm up solves that where 21 - 25 secs.. so the good result came as a total surprise


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## mafergut (Oct 29, 2015)

moralsh said:


> I'm finally back home after my 3 day Spanish nationals in Granada, a rally nice experience.
> 
> It's been a good enough comp for me, here's what I did: [...]



Hey Raul, you forgot to tell us about your other competition during Nationals, which I'd say you definitely won. The delayed 3BLD comp with your roommates APdRF1 and Alberto Masó 
For those not knowing what I'm talking about here is the video (it's in Spanish, though):


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## h2f (Oct 29, 2015)

mafergut said:


> Hey Raul, you forgot to tell us about your other competition during Nationals, which I'd say you definitely won. The delayed 3BLD comp with your roommates APdRF1 and Alberto Masó
> For those not knowing what I'm talking about here is the video (it's in Spanish, though):
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZCh3nycORgM



Whoa!


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## muchacho (Oct 29, 2015)

apdrf1 memo was funny, it seemed easy to remember.


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## moralsh (Oct 29, 2015)

mafergut said:


> Hey Raul, you forgot to tell us about your other competition during Nationals, which I'd say you definitely won. The delayed 3BLD comp with your roommates APdRF1 and Alberto Masó
> For those not knowing what I'm talking about here is the video (it's in Spanish, though):
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZCh3nycORgM



hehe, it was fun, we woke up recalling the memo perfectly, our only fear was execution. gotta try it with 4BLD some day 



muchacho said:


> apdrf1 memo was funny, it seemed easy to remember.



Yeah, APdRF memo was very funny and easy to visualize, for those not able to understand spanish there were two synonims of ******* in his corner memo very easy to recall as all the dirty words 

Mine was a little more chaotic but had no problem to remember it even 2 weeks later.

The only downside was that sleeping less than 5 hours may have had an impact in my disastrous saturday in which I failed everything that was not 3BLD.


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## moralsh (Oct 29, 2015)

christmasx2 said:


> How many of you old cubers (40 or older) have gone to competitions?



I've been to 10 so far, one with 39 and the rest over 40, I can say I started competing in my 30s xD. Next one will probably be Feb next year, but there's still hope to end this year with 5 comps, let's see how it turns out.


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## mafergut (Oct 29, 2015)

moralsh said:


> hehe, it was fun, we woke up recalling the memo perfectly, our only fear was execution. gotta try it with 4BLD some day
> 
> Yeah, APdRF memo was very funny and easy to visualize, for those not able to understand spanish there were two synonims of ******* in his corner memo very easy to recall as all the dirty words
> 
> ...



Yeah, APdRF's memo was, well, memorable, which is the whole point of it, right? Dirty words are so useful for that, hehehe.
The power of images for memorization is incredible. Even before I got involved in cubing I bought a book on tips and tricks for memorization. One of the tricks was the link of absurd images one after the other to remember a sequence of words. My first try was with an arbitrary list of 10 words and, years later I can still remember most of it. My second try was with the 50 states of the USA in alphabetical order, which I can still remember perfectly (I have also included the capitals in the link afterwards).


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## SenorJuan (Oct 29, 2015)

"How many of you old cubers (40 or older) have gone to competitions?"
Well, I gave in to peer pressure and registered for the UK Champs. Now all I need to do is many months of practice beforehand, and I'll be able to put in a creditable attempt. Oh, it's next week, scratch that. I'll have to find my Stackmat timer and practice with it, and make sure I get used to the proper 15 sec inspection time. And pimp up my stickers. And read up on all the rules. And I registered for FMC, too, just fer fun. I used to do it a fair bit, but using slice-turn metric, and maybe just 10 minutes max solve time. I don't know how one hour and face-turn metric is going to pan out. Hopefully in the 30's, and not a DNF.
Q: my timer has a bag of cups with it. Are they for serving refreshments in, or something??


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## Logiqx (Oct 29, 2015)

OH - 27.18 Ao5 (PB)

I had two PLL skips resulting in two 22s singles. 

If I hadn't mucked up the final solve (clockwise U-perm) the Ao5 would have been 26.21. Idiot!


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## muchacho (Oct 29, 2015)

MarcelP said:


> LOL yeah... and I did a few warm up solves that where 21 - 25 secs.. so the good result came as a total surprise


17.92 Ao5, nice!

I was doing some solves around 30 seconds (after several days of doing like 33) and thought... this may be a good moment to do the Ao12 for the "race to sub-30" thread, and I was right, 30.18 (my best Ao12 is 29.38)


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## Logiqx (Oct 29, 2015)

I thought I'd better do a bit of 2x2 practice what with a competition coming up. Here's a decent Ao12...


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## Jason Green (Oct 29, 2015)

muchacho said:


> 17.92 Ao5, nice!
> 
> I was doing some solves around 30 seconds (after several days of doing like 33) and thought... this may be a good moment to do the Ao12 for the "race to sub-30" thread, and I was right, 30.18 (my best Ao12 is 29.38)


I saw that on the race thread, good job!


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## muchacho (Oct 29, 2015)

Thanks, usually I do better than normal for that competitions, must be just the right amount of "pressure", but at an official competition rounded by people and all that noise I would probably perform really bad.


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## muchacho (Oct 29, 2015)

Very nice practice... another Lingpo that doesn't suck... now I'm sure the problem is not my Lingpo but my not very precise movements.


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## MarcelP (Oct 29, 2015)

Very cool solves Mike. My little boy (6 years) asks if that is you in your avatar with the surfboard hanging upside down.


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## JanW (Oct 29, 2015)

Did another Ao100 today. First 12 solves were horrible, average >55 seconds with 3 sup 60 solves. Couldn't find anything on the cube during F2L. Then I decided to turn a lot slower, did F2L at my slow practice speed, and times immediately dropped. Apparently slow is always the answer. Ao100 ended up at 48.6, nice improvement from last time. Best single 34.6 with one skip in last layer. Hopefully it won't be long before I break the 45s average barrier, and I suppose even a sub30 single could show up soon given a lucky scramble.

For now I'll still focus on getting F2L more fluent, then at some point I must think about how to proceed with last layer. I have a little problem there. A few years ago when I first learned to solve the cube, I somewhere picked up a 4lll method that went orient edges->position corners->orient corners->position edges. When I picked up the cube again I did some experimenting and realized I could do the first 2 in one step and found algs for orienting edges and positioning corners. Later I found this thread, mostly with the same algs I already found, but with some improved algs. So currently I'm doing 3lll which goes CPEOLL->OCLL->EPLL. All algs are faily short and simple. Problem is that this doesn't transition into CFOP very well. Even if I learn full PLL, I'm still stuck with 3lll, with more and longer algs. Not really looking forward to taking that step...


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## Chree (Oct 29, 2015)

LL Cool Skip said:


> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g62O8chdwq0
> 
> Just a couple of 4x4 solves. I would've went on but did the same scramble twice and rage quit. Nothing special but everyone should learn Hoya.



Hoya fo life... Marcel uses Hoya, right?

PS - This is my first time posting here. I wasn't sure if I was old enough to join  31?


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## muchacho (Oct 29, 2015)

Welcome! I saw your video about the yuhu, very useful. But I ended buying the stickerless even if from the video I knew the colors were going to be a problem, I have more trouble with the greens (and the yellow) than with the blues, I've tried but probably won't get used to them.


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## Logiqx (Oct 29, 2015)

MarcelP said:


> Very cool solves Mike. My little boy (6 years) asks if that is you in your avatar with the surfboard hanging upside down.



Thanks. Yes... that photo was when I was learning to loop on holiday a few years ago.



JanW said:


> A few years ago when I first learned to solve the cube, I somewhere picked up a 4lll method that went orient edges->position corners->orient corners->position edges.
> ...
> So currently I'm doing 3lll which goes CPEOLL->OCLL->EPLL



EO CP CO EP is what I teach beginners (easiest algs imo) but once they start to time themselves, I switch them to EO CO CP EP which is the path towards full CFOP.

If you already know CPEOLL you could consider combining the last steps as the algorithms are readily available (2GLL). I don't know if that approach has the same potential as OLL + PLL or CLL + ELL and you may well be the only person using it as standard for their LL. I think 2-look OLL + 2-look PLL is probably the safest option for you to take unless you're feeling adventurous!

You may find this diagram interesting - https://www.speedsolving.com/forum/...ast-Layer-Sub-Steps-Subsets-of-OLLCP-and-ZBLL



Chree said:


> PS - This is my first time posting here. I wasn't sure if I was old enough to join  31?



Hehe. I think it was discussed a while back and some of us thought 25 was a reasonable measure of "old".


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## RicardoRix (Oct 29, 2015)

I got my 1st 3x3 BLD success yesterday. hoorah!
Today I captured one on video, had 3 failed attempts, all over 12 minutes, and then a success of 11:20 just as my laptop battery died.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EqCj4oDk_ig

My memo takes forever, especially for Edges, corners are not too bad, but the edges are killing me. Even tried reconstructing the solve sighted and got the edges execution wrong twice.
So just over a week till the UK comp, and with any luck it maybe 25% chance of success, it's gonna be a long 12 minutes for the judge waiting to see if I'll ever start before the timer explodes from displaying so many digits.
Possibly a total anti-climax and the feeling of never getting precious minutes of your life back when the cube shall be equally scrambled afterwards as before.


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## mafergut (Oct 29, 2015)

muchacho said:


> Very nice practice... another Lingpo that doesn't suck... now I'm sure the problem is not my Lingpo but my not very precise movements.



It was a nice OH and a nice 2x2, Mike. Really. I still have much to improve myself to get there, at least in OH, in 2x2 I think I'm a bit closer. Regarding what you say, David, about the LingPo... I hated how my LingPo chatched so frequently so I decided to get a Dayan Zhanchi 2x2 50mm and a Cyclone Boys Stickerless. The CB is great but it also catches a bit. The Dayan is terrible and I'm getting tired of trying to break it in so it becomes the superb 2x2 everyone says it should be. So I came back to the LingPo and either it's catching less and less or I'm adapting my turning style with 2x2 so that it happens less to me. I think the trick is to not grasp the cube too firmly and turn it softly. With that in mind, right now my LingPo is probably the best of the three, closely followed by the CB.

By the way, even though my times are not comparable to those of Mike, I have some new PBs from this week in these two events precisely:

2x2: 4.84 Ao5, 5.71 Ao12, 6.51 Ao100 so, clearly sub-7 with Ortega

3x3 OH: 32.70 single (not sub-30 yet but it was full step), 39.62 Ao5 (first sub-40 Ao5), 42.42 Ao12, 48.19 Ao100 (bad but with a 46.61. Ao50 so I'm rolling the Ao100 this weekend)

In other news 
I have ordered a Tanglong, a Cubicle Premium Meiying and a SS Megaminx. Will tell you how I do with them.

EDIT: I just fell 0.02 short of full step PB at 3x3 with a 13.43


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## MarcelP (Oct 29, 2015)

Chree said:


> Hoya fo life... Marcel uses Hoya, right?



Hey man. Yeah you are old enough  And Yes I still use Hoya. 



Logiqx said:


> Thanks. Yes... that photo was when I was learning to loop on holiday a few years ago.



In my childhood at age 12 - 13 or so I remember Stefan van de berg surfing at the lake where I lived. He became Olymic champion or world champion and did these loops as one of the first people to do that. Surfboards where a lot heavier then. Did they call it something like barrel loop? I surfed a lot back then too. I doubt I could today stand on a surfboard and hold my balance.


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## Chree (Oct 29, 2015)

muchacho said:


> Welcome! I saw your video about the yuhu, very useful. But I ended buying the stickerless even if from the video I knew the colors were going to be a problem, I have more trouble with the greens (and the yellow) than with the blues, I've tried but probably won't get used to them.



Yeah, I know I really liked it at the time I was making that video.. and the turning only ever got better. But the recognition was killing me. I've been back on my SS ever since.

I get corner twists on my SS though. I might have it a bit too loose.



Logiqx said:


> Hehe. I think it was discussed a while back and some of us thought 25 was a reasonable measure of "old".



Haha... I guess I'm in, then.



mafergut said:


> In other news
> I have ordered a Tanglong, a Cubicle Premium Meiying and a SS Megaminx. Will tell you how I do with them.



Tanglong is ridiculous. I love it! I think I'm gonna wind up ordering some of the special color ones. At first I wanted 1 of each, but it's hard to justify spending >$100 on a single model of cube.


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## mafergut (Oct 29, 2015)

Chree said:


> Tanglong is ridiculous. I love it! I think I'm gonna wind up ordering some of the special color ones. At first I wanted 1 of each, but it's hard to justify spending >$100 on a single model of cube.



Hi Chris and welcome to the club 
I really hope I'll love both the Tanglong and Meiying as my current mains are the Hualong for OH and the Yueying for 2H


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## RicardoRix (Oct 29, 2015)

JanW said:


> Did another Ao100 today. First 12 solves were horrible, average >55 seconds with 3 sup 60 solves. Couldn't find anything on the cube during F2L. Then I decided to turn a lot slower, did F2L at my slow practice speed, and times immediately dropped. Apparently slow is always the answer. Ao100 ended up at 48.6, nice improvement from last time. Best single 34.6 with one skip in last layer. Hopefully it won't be long before I break the 45s average barrier, and I suppose even a sub30 single could show up soon given a lucky scramble.
> 
> For now I'll still focus on getting F2L more fluent, then at some point I must think about how to proceed with last layer. I have a little problem there. A few years ago when I first learned to solve the cube, I somewhere picked up a 4lll method that went orient edges->position corners->orient corners->position edges. When I picked up the cube again I did some experimenting and realized I could do the first 2 in one step and found algs for orienting edges and positioning corners. Later I found this thread, mostly with the same algs I already found, but with some improved algs. So currently I'm doing 3lll which goes CPEOLL->OCLL->EPLL. All algs are faily short and simple. Problem is that this doesn't transition into CFOP very well. Even if I learn full PLL, I'm still stuck with 3lll, with more and longer algs. Not really looking forward to taking that step...



Sometimes you just need a break from practising one thing like F2L. Muscle memory a few algs, because it's only over time they get set to memory. There are a few really nice PLL's like T-Perm and Y-Perm which are very similar.
Y-Perm is also 2 OLLS in a run, and repeating one of those OLLs gives you a different OLL case, so leaning the Y-Perm algorithm can be used in multiple ways. I struggle, and still do in finding pairs during F2L, the only way to get smoother is to start off slower. Certain F2L cases, where the 2 cubies are adjacent but wrongly orientated, if you practice it over and over then your fluency improves a lot and you need to think about what's happening less so you can concentrate on looking for the next pair. Ultimately you need to do each F2L case without even thinking about and instead 'looking ahead' to find your next pair.


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## JanW (Oct 29, 2015)

Logiqx said:


> EO CP CO EP is what I teach beginners (easiest algs imo) but once they start to time themselves, I switch them to EO CO CP EP which is the path towards full CFOP.
> 
> If you already know CPEOLL you could consider combining the last steps as the algorithms are readily available (2GLL). I don't know if that approach has the same potential as OLL + PLL or CLL + ELL and you may well be the only person using it as standard for their LL. I think 2-look OLL + 2-look PLL is probably the safest option for you to take unless you're feeling adventurous!


I'm always feeling adventurous! 

I actually did already look into combining the last 2 steps. I noticed that if I made some small mistake in the OCLL alg, I ended up with another OCLL case, then I realized that the mistakes lead to an alternative algorithm for orienting the corners for some other case, with different effect on edge positioning. So a couple of weeks ago I made an excel spreadsheet where I documented all the different variations of the corner orienting algorithms I could come up with and linked them to whatever case they solved. I managed to find algs for 68 of the 80 different 2GLL cases that require corner orientation.

For example, the standard T case I knew (R U2 R' U' R U' R2 U2 R U R' U R) is basically an anti sune, then an inverse anti sune. So I tried out all possible combinations of sunes, anti sunes and their inverses, also by adding U, U' or U2 moves in between them. Turns out 39 different cases (including the standard single S/AS cases) can be solved this way. Then there are other variations, like the alg I used for H case cancelling into the Pi case alg (R U R' U R U' R' U R' U' R2 U' R2 U2 R), combinations of H algs and sunes, and so on. 

The good thing with this is that I pretty much know most of the algs already. If I solve with these, I look at the case on the cube, look it up on my list and see something like y' S U' AS, and then I can execute it quickly without having to recall any complex algorithm. The bad news is that they are all so similar that learning to combine each variation with the correct case would take quite a while. Recognition isn't that bad, I look at the color of the F and L edge pieces in relation to the corner colors and that gives away the case. 

I am considering learning this, but haven't made any serious efforts yet. Only a couple of the easiest to recognize cases have made it into my normal solving routines. The other option would be to completely change course and head for standard CFOP, haven't decided yet which way to go. If I learn this, I think it would be enough to learn the 48 algs for T, U, L and Pi cases at first. The CPEOLL algs performed on the different OLL cases give an uneven distribution of CO cases, those 4 seem to be a lot more common than the S, AS and H cases. And when a sune comes up, it's still very fast to do that+EP in 2 looks.


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## Logiqx (Oct 29, 2015)

JanW said:


> I'm always feeling adventurous!
> 
> I actually did already look into combining the last 2 steps ... I managed to find algs for 68 of the 80 different 2GLL cases that require corner orientation.
> 
> I am considering learning this, but haven't made any serious efforts yet. ... The CPEOLL algs performed on the different OLL cases give an uneven distribution of CO cases



That's pretty cool. It's certainly easier than figuring out good PLLs without Cube Explorer. 

You can always refer to known algs for the remaining cases. Antoine Cantin has a nice list: https://sites.google.com/site/antoineccantin/2gll

I don't think your CPEOLL algs will change the distribution of corner orientation cases. In theory most of them will be equal (4/27) except for H (2/27) and oriented (1/27).

If you do go down this approach, you can always start off by learning the first alg for each case and with practice (thousands of solves) you'll automatically predict the second alg.


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## LL Cool Skip (Oct 29, 2015)

Logiqx said:


> I thought I'd better do a bit of 2x2 practice what with a competition coming up. Here's a decent Ao12...
> 
> https://youtu.be/o1eOllvEMb4



You do pretty good with Ortega. I didn't get that fast before I decided to switch to CLL. I recommend sticking with it until you can predict OLL during inspection most of the time. I've been thinking about doing some Ortega practice for this reason. I recorded a spontaneous Ao5 the other night with My crappy LingPo and did pretty well. Hopefully I can do this in comp. It looks to me like case recognition is my weakest point, and inspection. Naturally my video ends in technical difficulties.




I just got my stickerless Dayan 2x2 and I love it!


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## mark49152 (Oct 30, 2015)

RicardoRix said:


> I got my 1st 3x3 BLD success yesterday. hoorah!
> ... So just over a week till the UK comp, and with any luck it maybe 25% chance of success, it's gonna be a long 12 minutes for the judge waiting to see if I'll ever start before the timer explodes from displaying so many digits.


Congrats, and good luck at the comp! 

A couple of tips: there's a 12 minute total time limit across all 3 attempts, so even if you do only one attempt aim to finish inside 12 min (doubt they will be strict on a single attempt, but just in case). If you know how long your exec is likely to take, set yourself a time limit for your memo and keep an eye on the timer.

Also, remember the stackmat timers cut out at 10 min, so if you think you might go over that, tell the judge and make sure they time you with the stopwatch.


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## christmasx2 (Oct 30, 2015)

muchacho said:


> Look here: (it includes usernames)
> https://www.speedsolving.com/forum/showthread.php?54128-How-fast-are-the-over-40-s-in-competitions
> 
> Are you old too?



I am 47 and have done at least 10 competitions in 5 years. Always the oldest by a lot!!!! I plan to keep competing. Northeastern 2015 in November is possible.


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## JanW (Oct 30, 2015)

Logiqx said:


> You can always refer to known algs for the remaining cases. Antoine Cantin has a nice list: https://sites.google.com/site/antoineccantin/2gll


Yes, already completed the list with algs from algdb. I like complete lists. 



Logiqx said:


> I don't think your CPEOLL algs will change the distribution of corner orientation cases. In theory most of them will be equal (4/27) except for H (2/27) and oriented (1/27).


You are very right. I had a hunch sunes and anti sunes came up very rarely and then kept track of the cases for hundred solves or so. Obviously way too small sample size, but as it aligned with my earlier observations I thought it to be true. But now when I looked closer at the OLL cases and what they really are, it became clear that the distribution is even. If I wanted, I suppose I could slightly affect the distribution by picking the right direction for executing algs on the cases with all edges already oriented. Those algs can be done from 2 or 4 different directions with different results.



Logiqx said:


> If you do go down this approach, you can always start off by learning the first alg for each case and with practice (thousands of solves) you'll automatically predict the second alg.


Yes, I'm sure this is how it would eventually go. If the alg is S+U?+?, then the last part can be pretty well predicted by knowing what effect the first sune will have on the cube. Only need to know if the second part is an inverse or not. Maybe a first step would be to learn to recognize the four cases for S, AS and their inverses based on EP, ideally from all 4 directions. Then I could at least always tell what the latter part of the alg is with a quick look, if uncertain.


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## Logiqx (Oct 30, 2015)

LL Cool Skip said:


> You do pretty good with Ortega. I didn't get that fast before I decided to switch to CLL. I recommend sticking with it until you can predict OLL during inspection most of the time.



That's my plan since there is a lot of scope for me to improve. I'm still very lazy and only try to predict the OLL on easy cases; perhaps 1 solve in 10. I'm not planning on learning CLL or EG any time soon as I don't practice 2x2 regularly and just think of it as a side event.



christmasx2 said:


> I am 47 and have done at least 10 competitions in 5 years. Always the oldest by a lot!!!! I plan to keep competing. Northeastern 2015 in November is possible.



I'm guessing you were born in 1968? I'll add you to the next update...



JanW said:


> If the alg is S+U?+?, then the last part can be pretty well predicted by knowing what effect the first sune will have on the cube. Only need to know if the second part is an inverse or not. Maybe a first step would be to learn to recognize the four cases for S, AS and their inverses based on EP, ideally from all 4 directions. Then I could at least always tell what the latter part of the alg is with a quick look, if uncertain.



That's kind of what I was thinking. 

I think CPEOLL + 2GLL is probably good for OH should you ever get into that event. This is purely based on ease of execution... I have no idea how easy / hard it will be to get used to the recognition.


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## JanW (Oct 30, 2015)

Ao50 today 46.16. I suppose this pace of dropping 2 seconds every 50-100 solves won't go on for long, but I'm happy as long as it does. 

New PB 33.89 with a weird solve. I didn't do any Xcross, at least not on purpose, but after placing the first F2L pairs the whole F2L was magically solved. Probably spent 2-3 seconds looking for the remaining corner pieces until I realized what had happened.


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## Jason Green (Oct 31, 2015)

I got a Gans 356 today!! I've been thinking about ordering one since I read Marcel's comment about it being the best.  I really like it as is with no tension or lube changes yet. I'm having to adjust a little too the colors since I've been using my stickerless mainly, but I think I'll be using it for now and see how it goes.


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## christmasx2 (Oct 31, 2015)

Yes, born in 1968. What's an update?


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## newtonbase (Oct 31, 2015)

I thought that I'd get loads of cubing time on holiday but I'm going home in an hour and I've done one session in a week. However, that's more than I normally manage. Maybe I'll get to practice during the 23 hour journey home. UKs are imminent.


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## Logiqx (Oct 31, 2015)

christmasx2 said:


> Yes, born in 1968. What's an update?



I created that thread and update the stats periodically.


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## muchacho (Oct 31, 2015)

I'm using a mini aolong for some time now but I wanted to try my first cube (weilong) to see how it feels now (locky and slow, wtf wasn't the weilong a fast cube?). I did 7 solves with a 39 seconds mean, around 7 seconds more than usual, and then the next one is my new PB :confused:

22.62, the old one was 23.07, set 47 days ago.


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## MarcelP (Oct 31, 2015)

Logiqx said:


> I created that thread and update the stats periodically.



Maybe you should post a link in your signature. I do not know how to find it again.


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## MarcelP (Oct 31, 2015)

Jason Green said:


> I got a Gans 356 today!! I've been thinking about ordering one since I read Marcel's comment about it being the best.  I really like it as is with no tension or lube changes yet. I'm having to adjust a little too the colors since I've been using my stickerless mainly, but I think I'll be using it for now and see how it goes.



Nice! It takes a while to get used to. And if you have catches I suggest ordering the special caps for 2$ at thecubicle or file down the sharp points at the corners.. I broke all PB's with the Gan356 including official PB.


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## muchacho (Oct 31, 2015)

muchacho said:


> I'm using a mini aolong for some time now but I wanted to try my first cube (weilong) to see how it feels now (locky and slow, wtf wasn't the weilong a fast cube?). I did 7 solves with a 39 seconds mean, around 7 seconds more than usual, and then the next one is my new PB :confused:
> 
> 22.62, the old one was 23.07, set 47 days ago.



Well, 35.52 for a 25 solves session (and last 12 solves mean was 32.54), maybe not that bad considering it was not lubed, I was not used to the cube and they were the first solves of the day... I may try to break it in more or set it up correctly, apparently some Roux solvers still use the weilong.


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## h2f (Oct 31, 2015)

I stopped buying new brands of 3x3 some time ago, but I must change it and buy few new models: Thunderclap, Yuxin and Gan 356 - 357 was my main for few months. Now my main cube is aologn v1 - it has a lot of solves and is great. But some time ago I took my old Weilong v1 to a car. I've made it very loose to practice some OH and it's great. It feels like Weilong v2.


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## muchacho (Oct 31, 2015)

Maybe I should loose my Weilong, this may be too tight, right?



I know new cubes won't help me much (if any)... but I bought a Thunderclap and a Tanglong 10 days ago and wish they arrive soon.


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## SenorJuan (Oct 31, 2015)

I dug out my Stackmat timer, and found a 2032 lithium coin cell for it, too. Promising start - then I remembered it had a problem, the left side touchpad didn't work correctly, it was 'permanently touched', so the timer ran off the right pad only. Not useless, and pehaps ideal for OH use. But I thought I'd better fix it. That turned out ot be a major bit of brain surgery. Eventually I sorted it out. When I get time, I'll take a few pics and add some instuctions etc to a thread on this Forum: "Inside the Stackmat timer".
So for some fun with my refurbished gadget ... I thought I'd try and recreate these mad-sounding 0.5 second solves that Rami et al, do on the 2x2x2. Four moves? So I figured the 'sexy move' on a 3x3x3 would suffice. I surprised myself, managing to get below 1 second, a 0.92s came up, so I guess that sub-0.6 is not so crazy. If you're young, obviously.


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## mafergut (Oct 31, 2015)

SenorJuan said:


> I dug out my Stackmat timer, and found a 2032 lithium coin cell for it, too. Promising start - then I remembered it had a problem, the left side touchpad didn't work correctly, it was 'permanently touched', so the timer ran off the right pad only. Not useless, and pehaps ideal for OH use. But I thought I'd better fix it. That turned out ot be a major bit of brain surgery. Eventually I sorted it out. When I get time, I'll take a few pics and add some instuctions etc to a thread on this Forum: "Inside the Stackmat timer".
> So for some fun with my refurbished gadget ... I thought I'd try and recreate these mad-sounding 0.5 second solves that Rami et al, do on the 2x2x2. Four moves? So I figured the 'sexy move' on a 3x3x3 would suffice. I surprised myself, managing to get below 1 second, a 0.92s came up, so I guess that sub-0.6 is not so crazy. If you're young, obviously.



Mmmm, I've been wanting to buy a stackmat timer (the Gen3 one) for months but it is quite expensive in Spain. The price in the local speedstacks store is like 49.99 € and buying it at TheCubicle is more or less the same ($45.99 + shipping). So I have been delaying it again and again. The price is for the timer, mat and bag bundle. For this price I could get a Cubic Aofu


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## MarcelP (Oct 31, 2015)

h2f said:


> I stopped buying new brands of 3x3 some time ago



I recommend the Yuxin 5x5 if you feel the need to buy a new cube. It is pure awesomeness.


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## h2f (Oct 31, 2015)

I've heard a lot about it. I've bought Aochuang few weeks befor Yuhin appeared to solve 5bld and 5x5 in normal way.


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## mafergut (Oct 31, 2015)

h2f said:


> I've heard a lot about it. I've bought Aochuang few weeks befor Yuhin appeared to solve 5bld and 5x5 in normal way.



I also bought a CB 5x5 some weeks before the Yuxin came out. Sometimes one just does things with bad timing but I'm happy with my CB even though I just occasionally solve 5x5 for now.


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## h2f (Oct 31, 2015)

I'm quite happy with Aochuang - my times were a little better compared to SS. But I need something better. During 5bld I must be carefull because AC tends to lock and pop.


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## Lid (Oct 31, 2015)

Have to agree on the YuXin, best 5x5 I 've ever tried. Have beaten all my PBs except single with it. The CB ain't bad either.

YuXin > CB > MoYu is my preference order now for 5x5.


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## moralsh (Oct 31, 2015)

Heh, I bought both the huachuang and the cyclone boys just before the yuxin came out. That's timing!

I might by the yuxin, though


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## h2f (Oct 31, 2015)

MarcelP said:


> I recommend the Yuxin 5x5 if you feel the need to buy a new cube. It is pure awesomeness.


What do you Think about thunderclap and new gans. Whats better to buy? 

patataj patataj patataj


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## newtonbase (Nov 1, 2015)

I too bought a Huachuang not long before the Yuxin came out. It was awesome compared to my Shengshou but the Yuxin wipes the floor with it.


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## MarcelP (Nov 1, 2015)

h2f said:


> What do you Think about thunderclap and new gans. Whats better to buy?
> 
> patataj patataj patataj



The Thunderclap is very nice, but because it is prone to cornertwists it is not an option for me. I have corner twists every 10 solves or so. Gans is very very good. Also the MoYu TangLong is very good. I get about the same times with it as with my Gans. The TangLong also comes in very nice colors as pink and teal and blue.


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## h2f (Nov 1, 2015)

Thanks. I think I'll buy Gans. 

I've decided to record my 3bld solves. Luckily, I got one - not best. Scramble was easy but memo a little too long (should be max 40 sec). And a lot of pauses during edges. I've switched to turbo 2 weeks ago and still my solves are not fluent.


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## Jason Green (Nov 2, 2015)

I was pleased with my race to sub 30 average of 30.37 this week. It was an improvement, and I actually expected to get worse as I'm still a little challenged with the colors of my Gans 356. 

https://www.speedsolving.com/forum/...ce-to-Sub-25&p=1127189&viewfull=1#post1127189


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## muchacho (Nov 2, 2015)

So the Gans 356 is a better cube than what you were using before? which was it?


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## MarcelP (Nov 2, 2015)

I have been using several 'mains'. Before my Gans536 was the Moyu MeiYing my main. And before that the MoYu Hualong. I still think both of these are great. Just none of them is as good as the Gans. After doing 100 solves on one of these it feels like breeze to go back to the Gans 356. But I think that is due to my horrible style. I have a very sloppy turning style and Gans is OK with that.


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## JanW (Nov 2, 2015)

Went online to order some backup stickers for my ZhanChi. Ended up ordering stickers and 9 new cubes... At the moment I can't say what kind of cube would feel best to me, so I want to try lots of different cubes and hopefully find out. Luckily these are very cheap. Also put a 2x2 and a 4x4 in there. Didn't order a 5x5 because I've read Yuxin is the one to get, but couldn't find a store that would ship it to Finland. Where do you buy the Yuxin in Europe?

In other news, I now know the ZBLL algs for all 12 T cases with corners positioned. Recognition is fast, but it still takes me a couple of seconds to recall which alg goes with each case. Haven't done timed solves yet using these, but I will use them from now on. Maybe give them a week or so to sink in, then add the next set of 12, probably the U cases.


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## moralsh (Nov 2, 2015)

h2f said:


> Thanks. I think I'll buy Gans.
> 
> I've decided to record my 3bld solves. Luckily, I got one - not best. Scramble was easy but memo a little too long (should be max 40 sec). And a lot of pauses during edges. I've switched to turbo 2 weeks ago and still my solves are not fluent.



Nice, lots of pauses and still sub 2 

I'm still not timing my turbo solves, just doing sighted solves to get used to it, I'm also commited to learning more 3-style cases, let's see what can be accomplished in the next few months. I'm also trying to improve the way I do audio for edges and I need to improve my accuracy on multi if I want to ever do a successful 5BLD solve, too many things to change I guess 

I just ordered a 5x5 and 4x4 Yuxin and a Gans 356 based on recommendations on this thread, also a stickerless cubic AoFu because I want to be able to do an average on 7x7x7. Lots of cubing to come, let's hope I have enough free time to cope with it 

Jason Green, you're almost there!


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## h2f (Nov 2, 2015)

JanW said:


> Didn't order a 5x5 because I've read Yuxin is the one to get, but couldn't find a store that would ship it to Finland. Where do you buy the Yuxin in Europe?



I think I've seen it on Lightake and they send cubes to Europe: http://www.lightake.com/p/Yuxin-Zhi...le-6.3cm--Colorful_MU1928275.html?sku=1922696
There are few online shops in my country (Poland), so theres no problem with ordering it.


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## JanW (Nov 2, 2015)

Huh, that's weird. Tried to order Yuxin 5x5 from SpeedCubeShop yesterday, but it said shipping to my location not available. Today I had an email from them with a 25% discount code encouraging me to finish the purchase, and shipping was possible. A bit juicy shipping costs, but that 25% discount took care of most of that, so Yuxin is on the way as well.


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## MarcelP (Nov 2, 2015)

moralsh said:


> I'm also commited to learning more 3-style cases, let's see what can be accomplished in the next few months. I'm also trying to improve the way I do audio for edges and I need to improve my accuracy on multi if I want to ever do a successful 5BLD solve, too many things to change I guess
> 
> 
> Jason Green, you're almost there!




I agree, Jason nice progress!! Also, I think I will be getting into BLD. Achieving my official sub 20 success has made me want to take a break from cubing. I have not really practiced since the competition and I kind of like the break now. When I feel the need to start practicing again I want to check out BLD again. I have given up to many times so now it is time to get serious. Your achievements and Marks and Grzegorz's made me want to also be a cool guy with some kind of BLD stuff on my WCA profile 

Oh and.. you will not be disappointed with your new cubes..


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## mark49152 (Nov 2, 2015)

@Raul and Gregorz: just curious, but why are you guys switching to TuRBo?


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## mafergut (Nov 2, 2015)

h2f said:


> Thanks. I think I'll buy Gans.
> 
> I've decided to record my 3bld solves. Luckily, I got one - not best. Scramble was easy but memo a little too long (should be max 40 sec). And a lot of pauses during edges. I've switched to turbo 2 weeks ago and still my solves are not fluent.



I'm impressed! I wish I was able to do a 3BLD solve in under 2 minutes. I would be glad with under 5 minutes, to be honest but this you do is serious stuff, man! I will have to think of getting back to that, as Marcel also says because it is an entirely different challenge than speedsolving. I think I already mentioned here that I did a bit of OP like 1 year ago, enough to have a success (probably 15-20 minutes or more) but I assume that if I really wanted to get serious with 3BLD I would need to learn something better. I didn't really know about turbo I just now more or less the general idea of M2 for edges and also that 3style should be the fastest but all that stuff about commutators scares the h*** out of me. So, what would be a good starting method? OP for corners + M2 for edges? Also I would need a recommendation on memo methods. I just used back then made up words for every 2 letters and I did some kind of mental link with those words / images (like PL = plane, I imagine a plane, then TR = tree, I imagine the plane crashing into a tree...).

Regarding the Gans. Is the 356 so much better than the 357? Because I have a 357 and I hate it. I hope my new Tanglong or Meiying make me not want to buy a 356 because, anyway


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## moralsh (Nov 2, 2015)

mark49152 said:


> @Raul and Gregorz: just curious, but why are you guys switching to TuRBo?



In my case as a transition to edges 3-cycles, There are several options if you do M2 and want to switch to 3-cycles some day

1) keep doing M2 and insert some advanced M2 cases and/or some other conmutators
2) switch to TuRBo and start adding other optimal conmutators later on 
3) Learn all the cases and switch once you know them all

The first is not a bad option, I've tried a couple of times to start using advanced M2 but I end doing normal M2 and there's too many ugly cases, the Third is just not realistic for me. That leads us to option 2, very easy to learn (although it's harder to get used to it). Also Grzegorz Jalocha recomends it which also counts.

It also has more potential for slow fngers, being a 3 cycle based method in which also the bulk of the algs are known because you use them in OLL or PLL.

Marcel, try something new, definitely, your 3x3 times will probably stay good and you'll find that you'll probably even improve learning new things. If you get again into blind, don't forget to do A LOT of sighted solves, it's more important than it seems.


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## muchacho (Nov 2, 2015)

I'll learn BLD once I get bored of 3x3, or once I get 10 seconds averages, whatever comes first 


Someone knows if Boomerang + M2 is a possible (and advisable) combination for a total newbie that looks for something more advanced than OP and that is sure he won't try learning 3-style?


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## mark49152 (Nov 2, 2015)

moralsh said:


> I've tried a couple of times to start using advanced M2 but I end doing normal M2 and there's too many ugly cases


I would also like to transition (slowly) to 3-style. My memo is still where I expect to cut most time with practice, but I don't like being static and want to keep expanding my execution skills too.

I have found M2 really good for introducing comms. I first tried looking at corner comms, but there aren't any really bad corner cases, so where to start? I know a few but rarely use them in solves. On the other hand, M2 has some ugly cases which are ripe for converting to comms just to avoid the ugliness.

For example, take BD. On its own, an awkward 11-move alg. But combined with an adjacent non-M-slice sticker it can be done in only 2 extra moves without learning any algs at all, using the normal M2 setups. So BD-FR would be done as M2 (setup FR) M' (undo FR) M'. It's so much nicer than solving with the usual BD alg that it stuck in my brain quickly and I use it all the time now. It's also got me into the important habit of looking for pairs to translate to execution actions, not just individual letters.

Another sticker I used to loath is BU, but not any more. Just do B2 to set up to the above .

I find sighted solves are helpful for getting new techniques to stick.


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## h2f (Nov 2, 2015)

mafergut said:


> I'm impressed!





moralsh said:


> Nice, lots of pauses and still sub 2
> 
> I'm still not timing my turbo solves, just doing sighted solves to get used to it, I'm also commited to learning more 3-style cases, let's see what can be accomplished in the next few months.



Thank you. I'm glad I could record it. First, because it's kind of evidence where I'm at the moment with 3bld. For few months it would be good point to compare achievements. And second, I can see I can be sub1 at the moment if I had no pauses and finished my memo earlier. I'm very surprised I can memo in 30 seconds or less. I found my video of 3bld made a year and 3 months ago - time was over 8 minutes. A year ago I could even dream I can do memo in 30 seconds.

In turbo I've made for myself 4 groups of algs. I've noticed that every tutorial pairs algs like: an alg and it's inverse. Instead of it I've paired them in 4 pairs. Every pair has a 3cycle clockwise and counter clockwise. My pairs are up what edge does flip. If noone - it's a Ua and Ub perm. If first and second - it's a Fa case. If second and third - it's a H case. If first and third it's Fb case. In this order I must only think which edges flip during 3cycle. After around 200 solves it is almost automatic. 




mark49152 said:


> @Raul and Gregorz: just curious, but why are you guys switching to TuRBo?



I've read Raul's answer and my reasons are in half his. I was thinking about it, and my first reason was because Maskow and Grzegorz Jałocha told so. Maskow knows only idea of M2 but he said that noone of top 10 uses DF buffer. I remeber only Noah uses DF. I cant recall noone else. Grzegorz knows M2 - he used it as r2 in big blindes and he said that UF buffer is much more efficient. After 3 weeks with turbo I must agree. But Im in quite good position - I've learnt turbo earlier but left it to learn M2. It was much easier to come back to turbo. I know the rule how to create 3cycle for edges and at the moment I can do around 40% of comms for edges. And I found UF buffer much easier to do comms that way. The rule is the same like M2 - kind of setup and M moves for interchange. But UF buffer makes it easier. You can for example add U2 to change buffer position and solve hard cases in M2 like BD target. etc 

There's one more - with turbo you always solve edges with 3-cycle even if you dont know right comms for the case. I think this is an advantage that M2 doesnt have and makes trasition to full comms more natural. But maybe I'm wrong. 

And after all I think there's some kind of local inclination to a method. In Poland very few people uses M2 - I can recall only 2-3 people I ve met on competiotions who does M2 like me. Maskow learnt 3bld the way: OP, turbo, comms. He also tought Jałocha, who came same way. The most popular video tutorial for 3bld is made by Maskow and he suggestes same way: OP, turbo, comms. His results are the best recomendation to do it.

Marcel - give a try. It's not so hard as it seems. You need only to make few solves per day.


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## newtonbase (Nov 3, 2015)

mark49152 said:


> For example, take BD. On its own, an awkward 11-move alg. But combined with an adjacent non-M-slice sticker it can be done in only 2 extra moves without learning any algs at all, using the normal M2 setups. So BD-FR would be done as M2 (setup FR) M' (undo FR) M'. It's so much nicer than solving with the usual BD alg that it stuck in my brain quickly and I use it all the time now. It's also got me into the important habit of looking for pairs to translate to execution actions, not just individual letters.
> 
> Another sticker I used to loath is BU, but not any more. Just do B2 to set up to the above .



You really shouldn't be showing us something this good days before a competition. I have a strict rule not to learn anything new this close and you've made me break it!


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## MarcelP (Nov 3, 2015)

muchacho said:


> Someone knows if Boomerang + M2 is a possible (and advisable) combination for a total newbie that looks for something more advanced than OP and that is sure he won't try learning 3-style?



I just looked at the page and it already has too much info for me.. Sounds way more complicated than OP. 



h2f said:


> Marcel - give a try. It's not so hard as it seems. You need only to make few solves per day.



First thing I want to look into is M2. I did use OP for edges.. But Mark seems to be having good results with M2 so I think it is worth it


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## muchacho (Nov 3, 2015)

MarcelP said:


> I just looked at the page and it already has too much info for me.. Sounds way more complicated than OP.


Yeah, seems to be a bit harder (although it has some beginner variants) but the execution must be shorter, and I wouldn't have to learn that long Y perm, which is a plus


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## mafergut (Nov 3, 2015)

h2f said:


> The most popular video tutorial for 3bld is made by Maskow and he suggestes same way: OP, turbo, comms. His results are the best recomendation to do it.
> 
> Marcel - give a try. It's not so hard as it seems. You need only to make few solves per day.



Problem with that last statement. When it takes you 2 minutes it is easy to do a few solves per day. When, at the beginning, it takes you like 15-20 minutes, it's a miracle if you can even do 3 solves a day. Also, when speedsolving at home, if somebody wants to talk to me I just drop the cube and I'm there, but if nobody can speak to me during 20 minutes or 1 hour maybe in 3 months I've dropped my times to 10 minutes... and I have a divorce


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## h2f (Nov 3, 2015)

MarcelP said:


> First thing I want to look into is M2. I did use OP for edges.. But Mark seems to be having good results with M2 so I think it is worth it



M2 is a very good method for beginners. I think it's much better than OP.


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## MarcelP (Nov 3, 2015)

mafergut said:


> and I have a divorce


LOL.. true..


h2f said:


> M2 is a very good method for beginners. I think it's much better than OP.


But you have to remember if a turn is even or odd. In OP you do not have to rememeber that, only if the total amount of turns is even/odd. Seems like a hassle for me... But I will try when I start doing BLD again.


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## h2f (Nov 3, 2015)

MarcelP said:


> LOL.. true..
> 
> But you have to remember if a turn is even or odd. In OP you do not have to rememeber that, only if the total amount of turns is even/odd. Seems like a hassle for me... But I will try when I start doing BLD again.



You will see that you focus on it automatically. And it's easier to remember it if you use a letter pair in your memo. After all number of turns is important only when you do targets on M-slice. In other cases it doesnt matter.


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## moralsh (Nov 3, 2015)

Marcel, you really don't have to, just memorize in pairs and memorize the other one if you are in the later part of the pair (DB by UF or BD by FU) it's really easy to get used to. Always leave the execution phase as simple as you can. IMHO it is easier than OP edges


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## Logiqx (Nov 3, 2015)

UKC is getting close and there will be a few of the oldies in attendance!


Ben Coppin (bubbagrub)
Guy Plowman
Mark Adams (newtonbase)
Mark Rivers (mark49152)
Michael George (Logiqx)
Richard Leiser (RicardoRix)
? (SenorJuan)
I've been cubing a lot less these past few weeks due to imminent job change + house purchase. It's not the preparation that I had in mind for UKC but they're more important than my comp times!

I might only do the Sunday so that I have less things to practice, focusing on my main events and going windsurfing on Saturday.

It'll be nice to meet a few more people from this thread.


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## newtonbase (Nov 3, 2015)

I'm looking forward to it even though preparation has been poor. I'll be there all day Saturday and Sunday but I don't have permission to stay over. I may change my profile pic so I can be recognised though there's no mistaking I'm an older cuber.


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## MarcelP (Nov 3, 2015)

I am hearing nothing but excuses... LOL, that's not the spirit of cubing...


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## EvilGnome6 (Nov 3, 2015)

MarcelP said:


> I am hearing nothing but excuses... LOL, that's not the spirit of cubing...


Just go in with the attitude that you're going to be like Billy Madison playing dodge ball with the first graders. 

[video]https://youtube.com/watch?v=hShxpYG_ql0[/video]


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## mark49152 (Nov 3, 2015)

newtonbase said:


> You really shouldn't be showing us something this good days before a competition. I have a strict rule not to learn anything new this close and you've made me break it!


OK - I have some more but will hold them back until next week . I spent several hours trawling every M2 thread and resource I could find, and working through various lists of edge comms looking for ones that integrate well with M2, and created a list of selected M2 extensions that in my opinion are the best in terms of turn/time savings and ease of learning/using. When I get time I will write it up and post it.



moralsh said:


> Marcel, you really don't have to, just memorize in pairs and memorize the other one if you are in the later part of the pair (DB by UF or BD by FU) it's really easy to get used to. Always leave the execution phase as simple as you can. IMHO it is easier than OP edges


Raul is spot on. It is much easier to account for odd/even during memo, when you are thinking about and counting letters anyway. For example, suppose you have a letter sequence AB CD (using Speffz). C is the UF sticker, on the M slice, but it's first in a pair so memo it as C. Now suppose the last two targets are swapped. C would now be second in a pair, so you swap it during memo with W. You would memo AB DW instead.

This is important for two reasons. First, as Raul said, you simplify execution because for each letter you always execute exactly the same thing. Whether C is first or second in a pair, you always execute U2 M' U2 M'. You can forget about odd and even during execution. Think about it like programming. During memo you are constructing a sequence of instructions that you are going to blindly follow later without thinking, just like a dumb CPU.

The second reason is transition to comms and other advanced tricks. Comms is simply about executing two letters at once. You memo exactly the same sequence of letters, the only difference is in execution. That's why I like M2 - because you have lots of flexibility over which letters you do two at once, and you can always fall back on one-at-a-time basic M2 for the rest. If you swap M2 letters during memo it makes your choice of comms independent of odd/even position. For example, the trick I posted earlier is a comm for SL. I can use that both in the sequence AB SL, and also AS LB. It doesn't matter whether or not it spans a pair.



newtonbase said:


> I may change my profile pic so I can be recognised


Look for the table where the grey-haired people are cubing. The other tables are parents


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## Logiqx (Nov 3, 2015)

MarcelP said:


> I am hearing nothing but excuses... LOL, that's not the spirit of cubing...



Hehe. I still feel faster than I was before my first comp but I wanted to practice hard for this one. A sub-18 average would be nice but I'll settle for sub-19. 



mark49152 said:


> Look for the table where the grey-haired people are cubing. The other tables are parents



LOL. Good tip...

Edit: 72 people make the second round of 3x3. Psych sheet shows the top 72 have achieved sub-19 averages.


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## LL Cool Skip (Nov 3, 2015)

I was embarrassed by my OH performance at my last comp. I guess you have to keep practicing to stay sharp, let alone improve.
This is a pretty good average for me. I got lucky with some easy crosses. My PLL is still pretty bad.




New mini Weilong feels really nice after breaking in.
Probably should've stuck with the old angle, both are pretty bad...


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## SenorJuan (Nov 3, 2015)

I'm amazed by how many have entered the UK Champs OH contest . No doubt many will be 2 minute solvers, just doing the event because they know how to do it two-handed. But there's plenty of sub-40 second solvers registered, and that shows that you must've practiced a decent amount.
On this topic, I was looking at the solve reconstruction database of Mr.Brest yesterday, there's surprisingly few OH solves on there.

Regarding the 'table full of grey-haired folk', you need to extend that to 'shiny-headed' folk....though I may wear a hat.
I wonder if the 2035 champs will have loads of mobility scooters parked outside....


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## h2f (Nov 3, 2015)

I've registered for a comp for 2 weeks. There will be only FMC, OH, 3bld and 3x3. In OH there's a limit of 40 seconds. I've started to practice. I'm sub 50 at the moment.


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## mafergut (Nov 3, 2015)

LL Cool Skip said:


> I was embarrassed by my OH performance at my last comp. I guess you have to keep practicing to stay sharp, let alone improve.
> This is a pretty good average for me. I got lucky with some easy crosses. My PLL is still pretty bad.
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JXqp2Ssc5-M
> New mini Weilong feels really nice after breaking in.
> Probably should've stuck with the old angle, both are pretty bad...



Nothing to be embarrased about. Your OH is pretty decent. Much better than mine for sure. I have yet to get a sub-30 single  but my OLL is almost always 2L because I have amnesia for most of my 2H 1L OLLs.


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## Logiqx (Nov 3, 2015)

LL Cool Skip said:


> I was embarrassed by my OH performance at my last comp. I guess you have to keep practicing to stay sharp, let alone improve.
> This is a pretty good average for me. I got lucky with some easy crosses. My PLL is still pretty bad.
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JXqp2Ssc5-M
> New mini Weilong feels really nice after breaking in.
> Probably should've stuck with the old angle, both are pretty bad...



Nice video. I like the smoothness of your turning.

I want to change my turning style for U turns as I push rather than flick. I'm not going to do anything to my style prior to the competition though. 

Thanks for the reminder about staying sharp. I will try to do some OH every day leading up to the comp...


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## newtonbase (Nov 3, 2015)

MarcelP said:


> I am hearing nothing but excuses... LOL, that's not the spirit of cubing...



I reserve the right to make as many excuses as I feel like. They shield me from the reality of my inability to solve quickly. 

Today's excuse - 3 hours broken sleep last night due to jet lag. 

In other news. I had ordered a black Yuxin 4x4 but when my stickerless 5x5 turned out to be amazing I ordered the stickerless 4x4 too. I got both 4x4s today and they are rubbish. Outer layers are too floppy and inners are too tight. Luckily my new Aosu stickers arrived so I can use that at the weekend as long as I can find a competent person to put them on for me. I may pay for some child labour on Saturday.


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## mark49152 (Nov 3, 2015)

Logiqx said:


> Edit: 72 people make the second round of 3x3. Psych sheet shows the top 72 have achieved sub-19 averages.


Yeah because of the size of the comp, 72 is only 37% of those currently registered for first round. That's way smaller than the 75% at my last three comps. I don't expect to be top 37%.

197 registered is a huge comp. Last year's UK Champs was only 77! UK cubing is taking off!

Regarding goals, I haven't practised anything other than blind. Haven't even touched a 2x2 or 4x4 since last comp. Reason is that I'm happy with my results and they're fairly representative of my progress, allowing a margin for comp nerves. Based on my recent slow progress, no amount of practice in the month between comps is going to produce enough improvement for me to feel I should get better results. Maybe when I'm sub-17 at home I'll start feeling like I should fix my 19.89 comp average .

In blind, my goals are successes and PBs


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## Logiqx (Nov 3, 2015)

newtonbase said:


> I may pay for some child labour on Saturday.



You need the guy at 01:20 in this video...


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## newtonbase (Nov 3, 2015)

Logiqx said:


> You need the guy at 01:20 in this video...
> 
> http://youtu.be/XVmBCfgQYCg



That's impressive.


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## h2f (Nov 3, 2015)

LL Cool Skip said:


> I was embarrassed by my OH performance at my last comp. I guess you have to keep practicing to stay sharp, let alone improve.
> This is a pretty good average for me. I got lucky with some easy crosses. My PLL is still pretty bad.
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JXqp2Ssc5-M
> New mini Weilong feels really nice after breaking in.
> Probably should've stuck with the old angle, both are pretty bad...


Great. it looks so easy.

patataj patataj patataj


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## Jason Green (Nov 4, 2015)

I realize this has probably been discussed a lot on here, so sorry for repeating. I'm sure you all understand since us old folks can't remember much (except a few hundred cube algs).

What do you recommend for first learning 2x2? I prefer to learn something I can get good with. Like I think it's pointless to learn beginner 3x3 because CFOP seems easy enough IMO. So with that in mind?

Also while I'm at it how about 4x4? I've done that a time or two but never for speed.

Just really looking for brief suggestions to look into, so you don't overwhelm my simple mind.


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## EvilGnome6 (Nov 4, 2015)

Jason Green said:


> What do you recommend for first learning 2x2? I prefer to learn something I can get good with. Like I think it's pointless to learn beginner 3x3 because CFOP seems easy enough IMO. So with that in mind?



Go with Ortega. It's relatively easy because you can reuse a lot of CFOP algs and you can get really fast with it.



> Also while I'm at it how about 4x4? I've done that a time or two but never for speed.



Just go for Yau and 3-2-3. It's not really any harder than reduction, it just orders the steps a bit differently.


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## Jason Green (Nov 4, 2015)

EvilGnome6 said:


> Go with Ortega. It's relatively easy because you can reuse a lot of CFOP algs and you can get really fast with it.
> 
> 
> 
> Just go for Yau and 3-2-3. It's not really any harder than reduction, it just orders the steps a bit differently.


Perfect I'm sold!


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## LL Cool Skip (Nov 4, 2015)

Jason Green said:


> I realize this has probably been discussed a lot on here, so sorry for repeating. I'm sure you all understand since us old folks can't remember much (except a few hundred cube algs).
> 
> What do you recommend for first learning 2x2? I prefer to learn something I can get good with. Like I think it's pointless to learn beginner 3x3 because CFOP seems easy enough IMO. So with that in mind?
> 
> ...



I also recommend Ortega for 2x2.
I suggest looking at Hoya for 4x4. It's really just a matter of personal preference but it's simple and intuitive. I also never enjoyed practicing Yau as much as I do Hoya.


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## muchacho (Nov 4, 2015)

Ortega is simple and it's easy to get relatively good at it, some people con do 3.x averages with Ortega, so fast enough.


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## muchacho (Nov 4, 2015)

Just in the hypothetical case that I were bored with 3x3 and had decided to start learning bld right now... does it matter which orientation you chose to use in bld? for example I would probably choose yellow on top and black (red) on front because it's the one I am more used to solve with Roux.


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## Logiqx (Nov 4, 2015)

EvilGnome6 said:


> Go with Ortega. It's relatively easy because you can reuse a lot of CFOP algs and you can get really fast with it.



I agree with this advice. Start with your regular OCLL algs then you only need to learn 3 PBL algs to start using Ortega.

You can soon start learning better algs and I'd suggest knowing 2 algs for each case, minimising AUF and avoiding z2 rotations.

Chris Olson has a page with decent Ortega algs.


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## h2f (Nov 4, 2015)

muchacho said:


> Just in the hypothetical case that I were bored with 3x3 and had decided to start learning bld right now... does it matter which orientation you chose to use in bld? for example I would probably choose yellow on top and black (red) on front because it's the one I am more used to solve with Roux.



It's a personal preference. I took yellow on top because I solve with this orientation. And I think this is only important for CFOP users. Front color doestn matter. But if you are Roux solver I would recommend to take the orientation you choose for Roux. If I remember good, you are not CN in any orientation. It will be easier for you in the beginning when you learn your letter scheme.


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## muchacho (Nov 4, 2015)

I try to be CN... but (hopefully just for now) I do like 60% of my timed solves with that orientation, I hope that helps to find the pieces in bld (by the way, in the beginning bld is hell, so much to learn).

Another question, I've seen some scrambles that only touches the corners (like D2 L' B2 R B2 D2 R' F2 R2 F2 L F L F2 D2 R2 D2 R' F), is there a tool to get scrambles only for corners (or edges)? maybe with cube explorer?


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## JanW (Nov 4, 2015)

muchacho said:


> Another question, I've seen some scrambles that only touches the corners (like D2 L' B2 R B2 D2 R' F2 R2 F2 L F L F2 D2 R2 D2 R' F), is there a tool to get scrambles only for corners (or edges)? maybe with cube explorer?


To scramble corners only, I scramble with triple sexy's. Do 10 or so from random directions and the corners will be sufficiently scrambled, at least for beginning to learn blind methods, I think.

Someone mentioned commutators in this thread the other day, so I looked up a video to see what the fuzz is about, and now I'm hooked. Spent all evening yesterday just scrambling the corners and solving with 3-cycles. I love this method! It basically turns the cube into an actual logic puzzle, instead of a memory game. Finding the solutions for the first couple of cases was very slow, but then it clicked and became very intuitive. Before going to bed I even tried doing corners blind once. Obviously it was very slow, but got it right... almost. Forgot to AUF after the last alg I did to orient the last two corners... I probably should spend time working on basic solving for now, but if/when I eventually decide to learn blind, I'll for sure go straight to commutators for the corners.


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## muchacho (Nov 4, 2015)

JanW said:


> To scramble corners only, I scramble with triple sexy's. Do 10 or so from random directions and the corners will be sufficiently scrambled, at least for beginning to learn blind methods, I think.


Thanks :tu


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## h2f (Nov 4, 2015)

muchacho said:


> Another question, I've seen some scrambles that only touches the corners (like D2 L' B2 R B2 D2 R' F2 R2 F2 L F L F2 D2 R2 D2 R' F), is there a tool to get scrambles only for corners (or edges)? maybe with cube explorer?



Cstimer has an option of scrambling only corners or edges.


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## muchacho (Nov 4, 2015)

Nice!


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## h2f (Nov 4, 2015)

JanW said:


> I probably should spend time working on basic solving for now, but if/when I eventually decide to learn blind, I'll for sure go straight to commutators for the corners.



Much better option is to learn Old Pochman for corners. In comms there are several hard cases. And not every 3cycle you can do straight. I've learnt it the way Noah suggested - first learn all 3cycles going through the OP target, that is UBL to RFD to every sticker. Next UBL to two left stickers from RF. And after that - all comms. To solve corners with 3cycles without any problem you must make a lot of solves. So dont start comms before you are quite good with OP. I mean till you can solve corners with OP without any problem.


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## MarcelP (Nov 4, 2015)

h2f said:


> So dont start comms before you are quite good with OP. I mean till you can solve corners with OP without any problem.



Are there alternative algs to do the adjusted Y alg thing? I mean for corners. Is there a different alg that also switches two corners and the BU and LU edges?

EDIT, I hate it so much because my mussle memory REALLY wants to perform normal Y alg.


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## h2f (Nov 4, 2015)

MarcelP said:


> Are there alternative algs to do the adjusted Y alg thing? I mean for corners. Is there a different alg that also switches two corners and the BU and LU edges?
> 
> EDIT, I hate it so much because my mussle memory REALLY wants to perform normal Y alg.



For some targets I used Ja or Jb perm. For example for UFL I did U2, Jb perm, U2. For UBR you can do Ja perm. For some targets I used normal Y perm. For example FDR i did R Yperm R'. Etc. But theres not many options in OP. Only Y perm and its modification. I hated it too and started learn comms when I was averaging around 3 minutes, but in fact it was too early to do it.

Edit: I think if you use Ja perm like this: R' U L' U2 R U' R' U2 R L you can find some alternative options for some targets.


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## MarcelP (Nov 4, 2015)

h2f said:


> Edit: I think if you use Ja perm like this: R' U L' U2 R U' R' U2 R L you can find some alternative options for some targets.



Actually one of my fav algs is a left hand J perm.. And I think that will work

U (L U' R' U L' U2 R U' R' U2 R ) U' It switches two corners and the BU an LU edges.


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## h2f (Nov 4, 2015)

It might be working good.


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## JanW (Nov 4, 2015)

h2f said:


> Much better option is to learn Old Pochman for corners. In comms there are several hard cases. And not every 3cycle you can do straight. I've learnt it the way Noah suggested - first learn all 3cycles going through the OP target, that is UBL to RFD to every sticker. Next UBL to two left stickers from RF. And after that - all comms. To solve corners with 3cycles without any problem you must make a lot of solves. So dont start comms before you are quite good with OP. I mean till you can solve corners with OP without any problem.


Not sure if I understand the reasoning here. What are the long term benefits of learning the slower method first? Learning to solve quickly with comms will for sure take a lot of solves, so why delay those solves? Sure some cases are more difficult than others, but I've done dozens of corner solves by now, I mean solving all corners of the cube with comms, and haven't yet encountered anything that couldn't be figured out. I don't see it as learning cases, it's all intuitive. With time it would probably become more case-like thinking, just like intuitive F2L.

Keep in mind I don't do standard CFOP, so don't know the basic algs you use for OP.


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## muchacho (Nov 4, 2015)

It was a bad session (34 seconds mean after 11 solves), but then... single, Mo3 and Ao5 PBs 

Old PBs -> New ones
22.621 -> 22.295
26.936 -> 26.320
26.936 -> 26.320



Spoiler: times



26.374 D2 R2 U' L2 D' B2 L2 D R2 U2 B2 R D' B2 U' R F R' U F' L2
23.902 L2 U' B2 U2 L2 B2 R2 D' R2 F2 D' L' D' U2 F' U2 B F2 R2 F2
28.686 U B2 D2 B2 U2 L2 D' B2 F2 R2 U2 L' B2 D B U L' U' R2 F' R'
32.255 R2 U' L2 U2 F2 U F2 D' R2 U' R' B' U' F' D2 R' U2 F U2 F'
22.295 U R2 U F2 L2 U' R2 U' B2 F2 L2 F' L' B2 R U L' F' U' L2 D


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## MarcelP (Nov 4, 2015)

Today I was filming a nice average (Ao12 sub 18..) After a few nice solves (some 16's in a row) I thought 'let's not mess that up'.. And then I had a twenty... bleh... then back to 16.. and then...

I saw the X-cross in inspection, but I got lucky and got a double X-cross 
Reconstruction: see on alg.cubing.net





Edit: Cube MoYu TangLong, 48 moves in 10.84 secs = 4.4 TPS


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## Jason Green (Nov 4, 2015)

MarcelP said:


> Today I was filming a nice average (Ao12 sub 18..) After a few nice solves (some 16's in a row) I thought 'let's not mess that up'.. And then I had a twenty... bleh... then back to 16.. and then...
> 
> I saw the X-cross in inspection, but I got lucky and got a double X-cross
> Reconstruction: see on alg.cubing.net
> ...


Sweet! I think you have a sub 10 right? Do you know where this ranks on your bests?


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## MarcelP (Nov 4, 2015)

Jason Green said:


> Sweet! I think you have a sub 10 right? Do you know where this ranks on your bests?



I have had only a few 10's and two sub 10's. These had OLL/PLL skips. This was a kind of special since I was only lucky on getting the double X cross where I saw just a single X cross.  I scare myself with these singles ..LOL


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## mark49152 (Nov 4, 2015)

LL Cool Skip said:


> I suggest looking at Hoya for 4x4. It's really just a matter of personal preference but it's simple and intuitive. I also never enjoyed practicing Yau as much as I do Hoya.


I agree with this - Hoya is a little less move efficient but it's ergonomic and so much easier to look ahead and find pieces, so it's easier to get faster with it, in my opinion. Hoya is to Yau what F2L is to blockbuilding.



JanW said:


> Not sure if I understand the reasoning here. What are the long term benefits of learning the slower method first? Learning to solve quickly with comms will for sure take a lot of solves, so why delay those solves?


In my view, OP is a good foundation for learning comms. Comms is just about solving two pieces at a time. You solve exactly the same sequences of pieces. So first learn a method that lets you solve the corners one piece at a time, and then you can add comms at your own pace and pick off pairs within the sequence that you recognise. OP doesn't have to slow down your progress on comms at all.

Progress update: smashed my 3BLD PB today. 1:47 - my first sub-2. Ao12 is now sub 2:20... I just hope I can hold my nerves at UKC and not end up with three DNFs like at Cuthbert's


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## Logiqx (Nov 4, 2015)

MarcelP said:


> I saw the X-cross in inspection, but I got lucky and got a double X-cross
> 
> Edit: Cube MoYu TangLong, 48 moves in 10.84 secs = 4.4 TPS



Cool.


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## h2f (Nov 4, 2015)

mark49152 said:


> In my view, OP is a good foundation for learning comms. Comms is just about solving two pieces at a time. You solve exactly the same sequences of pieces. So first learn a method that lets you solve the corners one piece at a time, and then you can add comms at your own pace and pick off pairs within the sequence that you recognise. OP doesn't have to slow down your progress on comms at all.



Thats what i agree with and what i meant. 

Mark, nice Times. 


patataj patataj patataj


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## Jason Green (Nov 4, 2015)

Logiqx said:


> I agree with this advice. Start with your regular OCLL algs then you only need to learn 3 PBL algs to start using Ortega.
> 
> You can soon start learning better algs and I'd suggest knowing 2 algs for each case, minimising AUF and avoiding z2 rotations.
> 
> Chris Olson has a page with decent Ortega algs.



Thanks! I watched CrazyBadCuber's Ortega video and it seems pretty straight forward, just figuring at which algs to use.



mark49152 said:


> I agree with this - Hoya is a little less move efficient but it's ergonomic and so much easier to look ahead and find pieces, so it's easier to get faster with it, in my opinion. Hoya is to Yau what F2L is to blockbuilding.



That's a pretty good argument for Hoya to me!  I suck at block building (I originally learned Petrus too). I might watch a video on both before I decide. I'll probably be playing with 2x2 more before 4x4.


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## mark49152 (Nov 4, 2015)

h2f said:


> patataj patataj patataj


Grzegorz, whenever you post from Tapatalk it makes me think of British comedian Keith Lemon...  https://youtu.be/IoxgcC9ONnA


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## newtonbase (Nov 4, 2015)

I'm trying to decide how to approach the 3BLD this weekend. My overriding goal for the competition is to get a 3BLD success. There's a 12 min limit for the 3 solves. I average a bit over 4 mins but can get closer to 3 on a nice memo. Do I plan for 2 slow and safe solves or try to give myself 3 chances? Nothing is guaranteed. Maybe I just see how it goes and blast the final solve if necessary. Suggestions?


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## mark49152 (Nov 5, 2015)

newtonbase said:


> I'm trying to decide how to approach the 3BLD this weekend. My overriding goal for the competition is to get a 3BLD success. There's a 12 min limit for the 3 solves. I average a bit over 4 mins but can get closer to 3 on a nice memo. Do I plan for 2 slow and safe solves or try to give myself 3 chances? Nothing is guaranteed. Maybe I just see how it goes and blast the final solve if necessary. Suggestions?


For what it's worth, I fouled up Cuthbert's because I raced the first two solves, then although I tried to go safe on the third I got nervous and fumbled a Y-perm. Three DNFs. So at UKC, I will take it easy until after the first success.


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## h2f (Nov 5, 2015)

mark49152 said:


> Grzegorz, whenever you post from Tapatalk it makes me think of British comedian Keith Lemon...  https://youtu.be/IoxgcC9ONnA


[emoji3] ha ha ha. Maybe i should think about changing it.

patataj patataj patataj


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## Jason Green (Nov 5, 2015)

h2f said:


> [emoji3] ha ha ha. Maybe i should think about changing it.
> 
> patataj patataj patataj


I was going to ask what that meant exactly on the signature. I tried to Google it but not very clear research.


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## muchacho (Nov 5, 2015)

I also didn't know what was that about (I just assumed it would probably was "have a nice cubing day and please try bld because it's so fun" in Polish)... please don't change it!


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## SenorJuan (Nov 5, 2015)

My guess is it's the Polski equivalent of " Arriba Arriba Arriba"


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## muchacho (Nov 5, 2015)

Do you speak Spanish, MrJohn?


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## Logiqx (Nov 5, 2015)

Jason Green said:


> Thanks! I watched CrazyBadCuber's Ortega video and it seems pretty straight forward, just figuring at which algs to use..



Here's my cheat sheet in case it is helpful:

http://cubing.mikeg.me.uk/Ortega.pdf



Jason Green said:


> That's a pretty good argument for Hoya to me!  I suck at block building (I originally learned Petrus too). I might watch a video on both before I decide. I'll probably be playing with 2x2 more before 4x4.



Mark's advice was just an analogy. He was saying how he finds Hoya easier than Yau in the same way that he finds cross + F2L easier than block building.

Yau does not utilise block building and both methods are forms of reduction. The four cross pieces are solved prior to completion of the centres, leaving just eight edges to be paired before 3x3 stage. Watch videos for both and have a play with both to see if you have a preference.


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## Isaac Lai (Nov 5, 2015)

Jason Green said:


> I was going to ask what that meant exactly on the signature. I tried to Google it but not very clear research.



I asked before and he said it was the sound of a horse galloping in Polish.


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## mafergut (Nov 5, 2015)

MarcelP said:


> Today I was filming a nice average (Ao12 sub 18..) After a few nice solves (some 16's in a row) I thought 'let's not mess that up'.. And then I had a twenty... bleh... then back to 16.. and then...
> 
> I saw the X-cross in inspection, but I got lucky and got a double X-cross
> 
> Edit: Cube MoYu TangLong, 48 moves in 10.84 secs = 4.4 TPS



Congratulations. VGJ!!! I'm still waiting for my 1st sub-12 (not even dreaming of a sub-11 or sub-10 yet) which almost happened a couple days ago but I locked up a bit and ended up with yet another low 12  I don't have it on cam anyway.


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## h2f (Nov 5, 2015)

muchacho said:


> I also didn't know what was that about (I just assumed it would probably was "have a nice cubing day and please try bld because it's so fun" in Polish)... please don't change it!


I like it. And i wish it meant so. But as Isaac wrote it is a sound like word which one can use when tries to say that one heard horses. But its a part of wider story. One of forums where im active has changed engine and become visible on tapatalk. When one of users saw a Signature under the post she asked "what the hell is patataj [tapatalk]". And i thought this could be funny Signature because it sounds like tapatalk. And thats all. I hope you are not disapointed. 

patataj patataj patataj


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## muchacho (Nov 5, 2015)

It's funny!


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## mafergut (Nov 5, 2015)

Nice!

patataj patataj....


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## SenorJuan (Nov 5, 2015)

@David: No, I don't speak Spanish. My username on here is just a nickname a Latin-American friend (Senor Sebastian) gave me. My only attempts at Spanish sounded more like Comedy Mexican -¡Ándale! ¡Ándale! ¡Arriba! ¡Arriba! ¡Epa! ¡Epa! ¡Epa! Yeehaw!

I'm slightly disappointed to find out the signature means something akin to "clipitty clop".


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## JanW (Nov 5, 2015)

mark49152 said:


> In my view, OP is a good foundation for learning comms. Comms is just about solving two pieces at a time. You solve exactly the same sequences of pieces. So first learn a method that lets you solve the corners one piece at a time, and then you can add comms at your own pace and pick off pairs within the sequence that you recognise. OP doesn't have to slow down your progress on comms at all.


Sorry, I'm not arguing for the sake of arguing, just want to understand the reasoning behind this. At the moment I find comms fairly easy to recognize and execute intuitively. I had several more successful blind corner solves yesterday using comms. Slow, obviously, about 1 minute memo and 1:30-2 minutes execution, but from what I've read about people's first blind successes, this should be quite acceptable for corners in first attempts. I am fairly sure that I couldn't solve the corners blind with OP any faster with this little practice. So I'm at pretty much the same starting point for both comms and OP (except that I don't know the Y-perm yet). From here I could continue practicing with comms to make them faster, or switch to OP and make that faster to eventually add in some comms. I just can't see how the second option would yield better long term results.

However, I can see one advantage for comms without any OP involved. I could use UFR as the buffer, which makes execution of several insertion cases a lot easier. It also makes visualization easier, since I'm quite used to inserting the UFR corner into different positions already from F2L. I used UBL yesterday, did a few sighted solves with UFR today and it immediately cut 10-20 seconds of my times. With UFR as buffer, I could handle parity for example by solving UR edge to FR and vice versa, then there are several different 11 move RUD algs to choose from for shooting UFR to either FDR or RDF and solving the edges. All corner stickers but DFR can be brought to either of those positions in max 2 setup moves. Some of the possible algs would in reality be 10 movers as the initial D-face move mostly would be a cancellation to the setup. The rare case of parity with FDR as last target would require either 3 move setup, or learning a separate alg.


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## mafergut (Nov 5, 2015)

JanW said:


> Sorry, I'm not arguing for the sake of arguing, just want to understand the reasoning behind this. At the moment I find comms fairly easy to recognize [... stuff removed...] The rare case of parity with FDR as last target would require either 3 move setup, or learning a separate alg.



You know what? I don't know much about commutators. I could barely solve successfully blind once or twice like 1 year ago with OP for corners and edges. But here's what I know:
- Solving with OP took ages and the move count is horrible, like 18-20 moves per target on average counting setup + Y/T/J/L-perm + undo setup.
- Reading your post it's clear to me that you already know a lot about the cube, how it works, how comms work and how to solve the corners.

Taking these two facts into account my advice is, maybe you should take your own decision instead of following any advice (including mine). It's not like you can barely understand the cube and will get confused or anything, as I said, you seem to know very well what you're doing already. Wanna skip OP and go straight to comms? Then do it. And tell me (us) how it goes because I want to go back to BLD at some point in the future and, for sure, I won't want to start all over again with OP..., unless I try another method and fail miserably.


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## mark49152 (Nov 5, 2015)

JanW said:


> Sorry, I'm not arguing for the sake of arguing .... (stuff)


There's no argument, and I'm not offering advice either, only opinion. Discussing cubing is the fun of the forum. Whether you agree or disagree, that's equally good, but if nobody wants to talk about it, well that makes me disappointed .

The advantage of starting with a 2-cycle method is that you don't have to know or deduce a comm for every pair. You can add them as you go and transition gradually. It sounds like you are making great progress with comms alone, which is impressive, so maybe that transition is of no benefit to you. I don't find comms that easy, and could not figure them out for every pair. Learning hundreds of them alg-style isn't appealing to me either. So starting with M2/OP and adding some easy comms as and when I feel ready suits me personally.

As for speed, ultimately move count will become important at around 1:00-1:30, but you also have to factor in thinking time and TPS. Same trade-offs as in regular speedsolving. Yes OP has a lot of moves, but it's just simple, repetitive, no-brainer spamming of the same easy alg and easy setups. Usually my corners execution has pretty much zero pauses. I just tried an ao12 of corners exec only, with pure OP, and got 23.56. That's ~6 tps which is faster than my 3x3 last layer. So a comm is no use to me unless I can recall, regrip and execute it in ~5 seconds or less. Sure I will have to transition to comms and reduce move count eventually, to get faster, but I'll do that by adding them at a pace at which I can integrate them without hurting speed, just like when learning full OLL.

You're right that if you want a different buffer, OP wouldn't be helpful.



Logiqx said:


> Mark's advice was just an analogy. He was saying how he finds Hoya easier than Yau in the same way that he finds cross + F2L easier than block building.


What I meant by that comparison was that Hoya cross is more structured at the expense of extra moves, whereas Yau cross is more free-style and requires hunting round the cube a bit more, perhaps using more intuitive solving. Same things you could say about F2L and blockbuilding respectively. I gave up on Yau before I was any good at it though, so maybe that's a misrepresentation.


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## Jason Green (Nov 5, 2015)

Logiqx said:


> Here's my cheat sheet in case it is helpful:
> 
> http://cubing.mikeg.me.uk/Ortega.pdf
> 
> ...


It's very helpful thanks, I could not find a cheat sheet I liked yet and this looks great! My 2x2 comes today so great timing. 

I understood it was just an analogy, but the fact that he felt it was an appropriate analogy still made it compelling. I'll check them both out... Some day.


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## JanW (Nov 5, 2015)

mark49152 said:


> The advantage of starting with a 2-cycle method is that you don't have to know or deduce a comm for every pair. You can add them as you go and transition gradually. It sounds like you are making great progress with comms alone, which is impressive, so maybe that transition is of no benefit to you. I don't find comms that easy, and could not figure them out for every pair. Learning hundreds of them alg-style isn't appealing to me either. So starting with M2/OP and adding some easy comms as and when I feel ready suits me personally.


Yes, I can see that point. OP is certainly more straight forward. When it comes to comms, I think they're not at all as complicated as they first seem. I honestly think there are F2L cases that are harder to figure out intuitively than the most difficult commutator cases. Not saying comms are easier than F2L though. They are harder, because there are so many different cases and you have to deal with all corners and think from several different directions, instead of just dealing with U layer. 

The multitude of cases isn't that bad, because they basically fall into a few groups of very similar cases. For example UBL to LDB to FDL (L U L', interchange then reverse) is basically the same execution as UBL to any combination on LDB, FDL, RFD or BRD. Only difference is the rotation of interchange layer. With one setup move it's also the same as UBL to LDB to any corner on the cube except BUR, UFL, LDF, DBR, and a whole lot of other cases involving FDL or BRD. Or any of those in reverse if you do interchange first. In reality the amount of truly different cases is fairly small. Some of them are a bit more tricky, when those come up, I have a solved cube next to me that I can use to work out a good solution and try to remember the principles of that solution for later cases. Because similar tricky cases will come up in different shapes later. The amount of fundamentally different tricky cases is very small.

The problem of having to deal with the cases from all different directions became a lot easier once I started using UFR as buffer. Maybe if you are more used to inserting pairs at the back during F2L, then this doesn't make much of a difference.


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## mafergut (Nov 5, 2015)

JanW said:


> [...] When it comes to comms, I think they're not at all as complicated as they first seem. I honestly think [...]



Seeing how you find so easy something I gather as quite complex on your first try makes me feel kinda dumb


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## JanW (Nov 5, 2015)

mafergut said:


> Seeing how you find so easy something I gather as quite complex on your first try makes me feel kinda dumb


Wasn't immediately easy at all. After watching Noah's videos on corner commutators I tried for myself, got the first attempts horribly wrong and didn't understand at all why. I think Noah's videos do a really good job explaining the principles of what a commutator is, but he doesn't really explain at all how to approach them when working out new cases. I mean the basic thought process that should go through your head to figure out the steps. Took an hour or two of really thinking hard about the simplest example cases from the videos and the underlying mechanics to get what it's all about. But once I had it broken down to simple "if A then B, else C" kind of thinking, then it suddenly became all clear. And since that basic principle is the same for every single case, it's all a matter of setting up the pieces for the switch after that.

Basically my thinking goes like this:

Locate the stickers on the cube

Check if they are already located in such a way that I can do a commutator
A possible case requires that 2 stickers are interchangeable by rotating one layer only and the third corner piece must not be on the same layer. If this is the case, move on to step 4. If not, go to step 3.

Set up corners for possible commutator insertion
If none of the three stickers are interchangeable, find the one move that makes 2 of them interchangeable in a different layer than the third piece. 
If 2 are interchangeable but the third piece is in the same layer, move it out (or sometimes turn another layer into an interchange layer). 

This is the hard part, but as I said in the last post, the amount of different possible cases is not very big at all. The trickiest cases I find to be those with all 3 pieces in the interchange layer, but I've worked out good solutions for most of those cases already, I think. One example that was tricky at first, but in reality is very simple, was cases like UBL->RUB->UFR. At first glance UBL and UFR are interchangeable and should be the interchange, but RUB is on the corner between them and cannot be moved out without disturbing any of the other two pieces. The solution is simple, setup with F and now the R layer is your interchange layer. On top of that you get very easy insertion with U' L' U.

Insert and interchange
At this stage the interchange layer is basically like your D layer in F2L. To insert, you bring one corner out, replace it with the desired piece and put it back. Just like in F2L, no other piece than the corner you are inserting may be affected by the insert. Then rotate interchange layer to bring the second target to the right spot and repeat insertion moves backwards. 
There are 3 possible ways to insert a piece, depending on the orientation you want. For example, inserting UBL to D layer can be done as L U L', B' U' B or L2 U L2 U' L2. Which alg to choose depends on what sticker you are aiming at.
To know whether you should do interchange first or not, the rule is that the sticker you insert should always shoot to the sticker from the location where it is supposed to end up. 

For example if we have the cycle UBL->FLU->RFD, UBL and FLU are interchangeable with an L move and third piece is not on L layer. Great start. On top of that, you can insert RFD to FLU with a simple U' R U. To figure out if you should do interchange first, you have to think about where the RFD sticker is supposed to end up when everything is done. In reality the cycle is UBL->FLU->RFD->UBL, because the third sticker is always brought back to the buffer, so you know the first insertion should aim at the buffer. Hence, you have to do the interchange move (L) first to bring your buffer to FLU. So the full cycle becomes L - U' R U - L' - U' R' U. If the cycle was the other way around, UBL->RFD->FLU, you can tell that RFD is supposed to end up at FLU, so you do insertion first, then interchange.

Undo setup
Easy forget how you set it up. At least I still do it too often... 

There's still a lot that can easily go wrong. It's not always easy to see which insertion method to use when inserting into awkward corners. It can very easily end up in the wrong orientation if you choose wrong. Sometimes I still mess up and do insertions in wrong order, forget to do interchange first. And then there's the worst mess up of all, performing the insertion alg in wrong direction... for example if I want to insert FRU to RFU with U' R' U, I instead insert RFU to FRU with U L U', which will royally mess up the whole cube if I then do interchange with L layer, reverse and undo possible setup moves.


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## h2f (Nov 5, 2015)

It looks like you got it. 

patataj patataj patataj


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## Jason Green (Nov 6, 2015)

Logiqx said:


> Here's my cheat sheet in case it is helpful:
> 
> http://cubing.mikeg.me.uk/Ortega.pdf



Mike, hope you don't mind if I share a link to you cheat sheet in the comments of a YouTube video. If you do mind I'll take it out. I'll share the video after I make it.


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## Jason Green (Nov 6, 2015)

Here's the video I made. It's pretty boring, I really just made it because I thought my friend's son would enjoy it being "for him." 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bHWvrcuI76s

I finally had an Ao12 under 30, woohoo! It wasn't for my race though. I also had a 21.20 single that could have been my first sub 20 possibly but I glanced at the time and got nervous! 



Spoiler



Generated By csTimer on 2015-11-5
avg of 12: 29.43


Time List:
1. 29.15 R' U2 F' R2 D2 B2 U2 R2 F' D2 U2 B D B' U B' F L2 R' B F2 
2. 31.86 U2 F2 L2 D B2 U L2 F2 D B L B F L' R B' L' U' R2 
3. 27.25 R2 B2 D2 U' B2 D2 B2 R2 D2 R2 B' R U2 L2 U2 L2 U' B' F L 
4. 31.60 L' U F' D2 R F U2 D2 R' U2 F D2 B L2 F2 B L2 F2 R2 
5. 30.91 L F2 L2 F2 D2 L2 F L2 B R2 F2 D' B U B' U' F R' D2 
6. (26.40) B' F2 L' B2 F2 D2 L' R' D2 F2 L' F2 U B2 U L' B D B2 L 
7. 28.07 R F2 D2 R2 D2 F2 R2 B' F2 L2 D2 U' L2 R U' F2 L F D B' 
8. (33.93) D2 U2 B2 F U2 B2 L2 U2 F' R2 D2 L' D' B2 L2 B' L D2 R' 
9. 31.68 D' R F U' R2 L B' D2 F' L' B U2 B2 D2 B' L2 F' D2 F L2 D2 
10. 27.47 B2 D2 F2 U L2 D U2 B2 R' B2 D2 U' F2 D2 U' F' L U 
11. 26.48 R U2 B' U2 L2 F D2 U2 L2 F R2 F' R U2 F2 L' D' L' R2 B F 
12. 29.89 D' B2 F2 U' R2 B2 D R2 B2 U' L2 F' L D' B L' U' L2 B' D2 R


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## muchacho (Nov 6, 2015)

Jason Green said:


> It's very helpful thanks, I could not find a cheat sheet I liked yet and this looks great! My 2x2 comes today so great timing.


Yeah, that cheat sheet is very well done, gj!



Jason Green said:


> Here's the video I made. It's pretty boring, I really just made it because I thought my friend's son would enjoy it being "for him."
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bHWvrcuI76s


It's good, what a newbie needs.

The PBLs from the cheat sheet are better than those from crazybadcuber's video (btw, that's the one I learn 2x2 from).

You should learn as soon as possible to make the first face on bottom, and being CN.



Jason Green said:


> I finally had an Ao12 under 30, woohoo! It wasn't for my race though. I also had a 21.20 single that could have been my first sub 20 possibly but I glanced at the time and got nervous!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



That was your first sub-30 Ao12? I had the impression I was behind you in the race to sub-10... my best Ao12 is sooo much better, 29.38


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## Jason Green (Nov 6, 2015)

muchacho said:


> That was your first sub-30 Ao12? I had the impression I was behind you in the race to sub-10... my best Ao12 is sooo much better, 29.38



Yeah I think so. I had some ao5 of like 27.x but not ao12. 

At this point I just want to solve to 2x2 fairly fast (judged by a non cuber). I try to limit what I get obsessed about because once I do, I can't stop! Like the 3x3 now!


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## mark49152 (Nov 6, 2015)

@Mike: are you going to both days of UKC?


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## Logiqx (Nov 6, 2015)

Jason Green said:


> Mike, hope you don't mind if I share a link to you cheat sheet in the comments of a YouTube video. If you do mind I'll take it out. I'll share the video after I make it.



No problem Jason. Nice video.

Two tips...

First face: Do it on the bottom and plan it during inspection, aiming for 5 moves or less. Once you can plan the first face you should also learn to predict the bottom permutation. This means that you never have to look at the bottom layer after inspection and only need to look at the top layer permutation during PBL. This takes practice but planning and predicting is one of the fun things about 2x2.

Recognition: Learn to recognise corner permutation by looking at just two sides. The corner colours on a side can either be matching, adjacent or opposite. When you see two sides it is possible to infer the other two sides. The side opposite to "headlights" will always have opposite colours... I call these "tail lights". 



mark49152 said:


> @Mike: are you going to both days of UKC?



Looking at the weather forecast, I'll only be doing the Sunday of UKC.


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## mark49152 (Nov 6, 2015)

Logiqx said:


> Looking at the weather forecast, I'll only be doing the Sunday of UKC.


No 2x2 or 5x5? 2x2 is early as well.


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## Logiqx (Nov 6, 2015)

mark49152 said:


> No 2x2 or 5x5? 2x2 is early as well.



I definitely won't do 5x5 since that's when I'll be on the water and I haven't picked it up in 3 weeks. I could potentially do 2x2 but it would be at the expense of any 3x3 / OH practice tomorrow. I'd leave immediately after 2x2 and not have the opportunity for any cubing until the competition. My mistake at ABHC was neglecting 3x3 / OH practice in the lead up to the competition.

Speaking of which, I wish 3x3 wasn't so early in the morning. Jo is going to hate me for being woken up early on a Sunday and I'm likely to be half asleep!


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## mark49152 (Nov 6, 2015)

Logiqx said:


> Speaking of which, I wish 3x3 wasn't so early in the morning. Jo is going to hate me for being woken up early on a Sunday and I'm likely to be half asleep!


Yeah it doesn't leave me much time for a leisurely fry-up in the hotel  . Not complaining though because I can see why they need to do it. Have fun surfing and see you on Sunday!


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## MarcelP (Nov 6, 2015)

Good luck guys! Get some nice PB's


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## muchacho (Nov 6, 2015)

Good luck and better PBs!


For BLD I'm going to start adding letters pairs to a list. I want to make it mostly from Spanish words but there are some letters that are not very useful (K, W, X, Y)... I'll need to use one of those (for English words), which one would be better? K or W?

My other 23 letters:
A, B, C, Ch, D, E, F, G, H, I, J, L, M, N, O, P, Q, R, S, T, U, V, Z


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## mafergut (Nov 6, 2015)

muchacho said:


> Good luck and better PBs!
> 
> 
> For BLD I'm going to start adding letters pairs to a list. I want to make it mostly from Spanish words but there are some letters that are not very useful (K, W, X, Y)... I'll need to use one of those (for English words), which one would be better? K or W?
> ...



When I practiced 3BLD a bit I would just use an unaltered Speffz letter scheme (ABCD, EFGH, IJKL, MNOP, QRST, UVWX) but I don't know the reason. Probably because that's what Noah recommended in his video on memorization, I guess.

What I did was:
- for C I would use Z-sound Spanish words: e.g. for CN I'd use something like "cena", "cisne".... That's why I wouldn't recommend to have both C and Z in your letter scheme
- for K I would use K-sound Spanish words, even if written with C: e.g. for KN I'd use: "cana", "cuna"
- problem is that Q also sounds like K in Spanish (and in English ) so, for Q I'd use if possible words that are written with Q, but there are not that many of those in Spanish, so for example for QN I I'd probably use an English word like Queen (I like chess, so I'm sure I'd use Queen).
- for W, which is very difficult to associate to a phonem and also there are almost no words in Spanish, I don't know but maybe I'd use words with V but I would imagine two of them, e.g.: for WN I'd use "vino" but imagine two bottles instead of one.
- for G I used soft G sound, e.g. GN = "gana"
- and for J I used strong G sound, e.g. JN = "Jaen" or "Jonas", even if the word is written with G (like JM = gema) but I'd prefer a word written with J if possible (JM = jamon).

I don't think there are other problematic letters in Spanish for image/word memo but if you memo your corners with sounds in a scheme where you memo edges-corners and execute corners-edges then I don't really have experience with that but I would just encourage more the association to the phonem and not the spelling. Then I most surely would rely on short English words for W, like water, wine, ... but, really, I don't know what I'm talking about here. My short term memory is quite bad so I always used long-term image memo for both corners and edges.


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## mark49152 (Nov 6, 2015)

I don't use Spanish words, but for audio I do use different sounds from the English norm, to disambiguate the letters and/or allow for better word sounds. For example, Q is "sh" and H is "th".


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## muchacho (Nov 6, 2015)

mafergut said:


> What I did was:
> - for C I would use Z-sound Spanish words: e.g. for CN I'd use something like "cena", "cisne".... That's why I wouldn't recommend to have both C and Z in your letter scheme
> - for K I would use K-sound Spanish words, even if written with C: e.g. for KN I'd use: "cana", "cuna"
> - problem is that Q also sounds like K in Spanish (and in English ) so, for Q I'd use if possible words that are written with Q, but there are not that many of those in Spanish, so for example for QN I I'd probably use an English word like Queen (I like chess, so I'm sure I'd use Queen).


K for words like "cuna" may work, I'll try that. There are (hopefully) enough words starting with Z and Q, and enough remaining for C.

Q is the first one I've tried to fill (for now all words starting with Q), but there are still 5 or 6 missing.




mafergut said:


> I don't think there are other problematic letters in Spanish for image/word memo but if you memo your corners with sounds in a scheme where you memo edges-corners and execute corners-edges then I don't really have experience with that but I would just encourage more the association to the phonem and not the spelling. Then I most surely would rely on short English words for W, like water, wine, ... but, really, I don't know what I'm talking about here. My short term memory is quite bad so I always used long-term image memo for both corners and edges.



I think (I've only learned some bits about corners) that I'll execute corners first and edges (M2) last, and I'll use numbers for corners (numbers kind of make sense for the boomerang method http://renslay.byethost11.com/boomerang.html).

My memory is awful (audio may work, visual not), this is gonna be fun, and by fun I mean totally painful.


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## muchacho (Nov 6, 2015)

mark49152 said:


> I don't use Spanish words, but for audio I do use different sounds from the English norm, to disambiguate the letters and/or allow for better word sounds. For example, Q is "sh" and H is "th".



Sounds interesting, but hope I don't have to resort to that too much.

Some examples, please? my English is not very good (I know few words and probably many of them I don't know how to say them correctly).


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## moralsh (Nov 6, 2015)

Most of my memo is also in spanish but I use English and other languages all the time, I also use Speffz (so I have Q K W and X to deal with). For C and K i do the same as mafergut, for Q I use Q or "Cu" (we pronounce the letter Q and cu the same way in spanish, like coo) QE is Que, QN is quien but QP is Coupe (just saying the letters out loud gives you that one in spanish) but also QL is culo, QB is Cube and QT is cute.

For X I use Ch sound a lot and for W I wrote the complete list the other day in the spanish forums (Rubikaz).

Good luck to everyone competing tomorrow, congrats to Feliks Zemdegs for his future WR on 7x7 tomorrow


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## muchacho (Nov 6, 2015)

moralsh said:


> for Q I use Q or "Cu" (we pronounce the letter Q and cu the same way in spanish, like coo) QE is Que, QN is quien but QP is Coupe (just saying the letters out loud gives you that one in spanish) but also QL is culo, QB is Cube and QT is cute.


With that I may be able to complete the Q list :tu


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## newtonbase (Nov 6, 2015)

I use DeeDub's audio system for edges. C is Ch, H is Ing (if at the end of a word), Q is Th, and X is Sh. This stops all the crossover sounds between C, K and Q (and X at the end of a word) and makes finding words for Q and H easier. I know he later advanced his system as K isn't needed in edges but I was already set in my ways. He has a thread on it that I would link to if I wasn't holding a sleeping child.


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## Lid (Nov 6, 2015)

Some practice b4 champs next month:
16.748, (14.785), (23.094), 16.400, 14.991, 17.616, 18.529, 19.891, 17.420, 17.674, 15.634, 14.953 = 16.986

Last year I was the oldest that went to the semis by 10 years or so...



Spoiler



Average of 12: 16.986
1. 16.748 D2 L2 F2 R2 F' U2 L2 F' R2 F' D2 L' U L' F' R' D F2 D2 U' B2
2. (14.785) R' B2 R' D2 F2 R U2 L U2 F2 R' D' B U2 L2 B U F R D F'
3. (23.094) U R2 D' L2 D' B2 U' R2 D' F2 U F' U' B R2 D2 F' L U' B' F
4. 16.400 F2 D2 R2 F2 R2 U2 F U2 B F L2 D' R' B2 D' F R B2 L2 U' B
5. 14.991 D' F2 U' R2 F2 D L2 U L2 U' R2 B R B' R' D2 U B' L' U2
6. 17.616 U R2 B2 D2 L2 D2 F2 U' B2 U F L' B F2 L' D L2 F R' F2
7. 18.529 U L2 R2 U R2 B2 L2 F2 R2 D U' R F2 R2 D' B R2 F2 L B2
8. 19.891 U' D F2 R' L' F' R2 D B U2 L D2 F2 B2 L B2 R' F2 U2 B2
9. 17.420 U' F' L B' D2 R D L U' R D2 B R2 L2 B2 R2 F R2 U2 B' L2
10. 17.674 B2 F2 U B2 F2 D' R2 D' R2 F2 D2 L F D' B2 R F' L' B' D' L'
11. 15.634 F R2 F D' R' D2 F2 L B' R' U L2 U' L2 D' B2 L2 U' L2 U B2
12. 14.953 D2 B2 U2 L2 F2 L2 U' F2 U2 F' D' F L F' U2 F2 L B2 D


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## muchacho (Nov 6, 2015)

Thanks. Now I'm trying to fill the lists for the worst letters, hope I don't have to use more tricks.


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## Jason Green (Nov 6, 2015)

Lid said:


> Some practice b4 champs next month:
> 16.748, (14.785), (23.094), 16.400, 14.991, 17.616, 18.529, 19.891, 17.420, 17.674, 15.634, 14.953 = 16.986
> 
> Last year I was the oldest that went to the semis by 10 years or so...
> ...


Nice session!


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## newtonbase (Nov 6, 2015)

muchacho said:


> Thanks. Now I'm trying to fill the lists for the worst letters, hope I don't have to use more tricks.



I haven't got a list myself as I find the audio pairs system is fairly intuitive but there are some dodgy ones like thrudge and shudge.


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## mark49152 (Nov 6, 2015)

muchacho said:


> Sounds interesting, but hope I don't have to resort to that too much.
> 
> Some examples, please? my English is not very good (I know few words and probably many of them I don't know how to say them correctly).


How about NQMH... would be "nush-muth". I'd have trouble with the normal English H and Q there.



newtonbase said:


> I use DeeDub's audio system for edges. C is Ch, H is Ing (if at the end of a word), Q is Th, and X is Sh. This stops all the crossover sounds between C, K and Q (and X at the end of a word) and makes finding words for Q and H easier. I know he later advanced his system as K isn't needed in edges but I was already set in my ways. He has a thread on it that I would link to if I wasn't holding a sleeping child.


I haven't come across that but it sounds like exactly what I do except for different assignments of letters to sounds. If you find the link, please post!


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## muchacho (Nov 6, 2015)

Lid said:


> Some practice b4 champs next month:
> 16.748, (14.785), (23.094), 16.400, 14.991, 17.616, 18.529, 19.891, 17.420, 17.674, 15.634, 14.953 = 16.986
> 
> Last year I was the oldest that went to the semis by 10 years or so...
> ...


Is that a normal average? Fastest man on this thread?


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## muchacho (Nov 6, 2015)

mark49152 said:


> How about NQMH... would be "nush-muth". I'd have trouble with the normal English H and Q there.
> 
> 
> I haven't come across that but it sounds like exactly what I do except for different assignments of letters to sounds. If you find the link, please post!



This one?
https://www.speedsolving.com/forum/...ystem-Focus-on-Phonetics-rather-than-Spelling


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## newtonbase (Nov 6, 2015)

muchacho said:


> This one?
> https://www.speedsolving.com/forum/...ystem-Focus-on-Phonetics-rather-than-Spelling



Yes. That's the one. 

I tend to try some sort of visual rooms method on corners but it takes me ages to get it down. Then I memo audio pairs for edges and solve the edges straight away. I'm thinking I could go audio for it all with a bit more practice and once I've picked Mark's brain for his comms I'll be easily sub 3.


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## JanW (Nov 7, 2015)

Learned edge commutators today. They're a bit more straight forward than corners, mainly because each edge piece only has two faces. Also helps that the U-perm alone can handle a lot of the cases that come up. My main problem is that I'm not at all used to the regular M move, haven't used it in algs before. M' and M2 are easy to flick towards me with left hand fingers, but I can't get the other direction to work. Maybe cube is too tight.. Any tips for how to fingertrick the M move?

I did my first few (sighted) full cube solves with commutators alone. I was happy to find that my parity plan worked very well, now I only need to learn my two parity algs and in theory I'd be ready to try solving the whole cube blind. Won't do that quite yet though, still need to get more familiar with these edge comms.

I'm not sure yet how to deal with twisted corners. So far I've solved twisted corners last by bringing them next to the buffer, then do the alg for solving headlights or chameleon without affecting EP. I happened to know those algs from my regular LL routine. If there are several twisted corners, then do the same for each of them and in the end the buffer will also end up correctly oriented. But this can get a bit confusing with all the cube rotations if there are many corners to twist. Any other good ways to deal with badly oriented corners?


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## Jason Green (Nov 7, 2015)

My Gans suffered a little injury. Should I worry about it, think they would send a new cubie? It still feels fine now that I removed the rattling piece. 

https://youtu.be/h9nELaYt2bI


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## mark49152 (Nov 7, 2015)

muchacho said:


> This one?
> https://www.speedsolving.com/forum/...ystem-Focus-on-Phonetics-rather-than-Spelling


Thanks. Yes it's very similar. I like "ng" for trailing H. I will probably use that as well as "th". I have found it useful to have more than one sound per letter to allow alternative pronunciation where a word doesn't stick. For example if MQNH "mush-nuth" was giving me trouble and coming back as "muth-nush" I could use "mush-neng" instead, but for MHQN I would use "muth-shen" because "meng-shen" is just asking to get the N/H mixed up. Generally it's similar sounds in the same word that mess me up, especially if the word sounds awkward or unnatural. That's why I dropped "ch", as I was always mixing up "ch" and "j". And I made other adaptations to help words flow. When J is mid-quad, I'll sometimes use an "ay" vowel sound, so CJDF would be "kay-duf" not "kudge-duf". X at the beginning is "sk" so XQJC would be "skush-ache". Similarly when W is mid-word or trailing, I use a long "oo" sound.

Having said all that, I still find there's a visual element. Unless I also imagine the word written in front of me during memo, I have trouble recalling correctly. During recall I remember the sound first and the spelling pops up in front of me.


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## h2f (Nov 7, 2015)

JanW said:


> Learned edge commutators today. They're a bit more straight forward than corners, mainly because each edge piece only has two faces. Also helps that the U-perm alone can handle a lot of the cases that come up. My main problem is that I'm not at all used to the regular M move, haven't used it in algs before. M' and M2 are easy to flick towards me with left hand fingers, but I can't get the other direction to work. Maybe cube is too tight.. Any tips for how to fingertrick the M move?



What buffer? UF? For corners I think every buffer from top layer is the same - there are always some harder cases when one has to make 2-3 moves setup for 3 cycle or make a strange alg. Top blinders are using UBL (Maskow) or UBR (Jałocha). I think it's personal preference.

For M move I've learned do it from bottom with middle finger of right hand. It was hard to learn but was usefull for Roux. I try to learn it on the left hand now. Maskow does it from the top with left hand.

In this week I was few days off home (patataj) but I was practising OH. I dropped my times to sub-50 in global and 42.41 best ao5. And few sub-30 singles.


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## muchacho (Nov 7, 2015)

For M I use my pinky to push from FD to DB, it was hard at first but it's ok now. Lightening and breaking in that inner layer might help, and after many M moves your pinky will be capable of doing that move with ease.

But try also DB to BU, it may work for you (it didn't for me), like explained in this video (at 37 seconds):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YrzoIXIJAyg


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## newtonbase (Nov 7, 2015)

I've arrived at the UKs. I'm at a table on the left as you enter if anyone would like to join me.


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## JanW (Nov 7, 2015)

h2f said:


> What buffer? UF? For corners I think every buffer from top layers is the same - there are always some harder cases when one has to make 2-3 moves setup for 3 cycle or make a strange alg. Top blinders are using UBL (Maskow) or UBR (Jałocha). I think it's personal preference.


I use UF for edge buffer. Was considering UB as well, mainly because I'm used to the R'UR' version of the U-perm that swaps left back and right edges. But in the long run I think it's better to learn the M2 execution of the U-perm as well. With UF as buffer, I realized I get a very useful alg by setting up with M', then doing the R'UR' execution of U-perm, then undo setup. Could do same the other way around with UB as buffer as well, of course.

For corners I'm now using UFR, haven't decided yet if I should stick with this or switch to something else. I do like the insertions from UFR though. For example sledgehammering UFR into the back face feels a lot more natural to me than sledge hammering UBL into the front face. Though I'm sure that difference would eventually disappear with practice. In any case, I think the one move longer sledgehammer execution for those cases is a lot faster than the standard insertion where you first bring the piece out.



muchacho said:


> For M I use my pinky to push from FD to DB, it was hard at first but it's ok now. Lightening and breaking in that inner layer might help, and after many M moves your pinky will be capable of doing that move with ease.
> 
> But try also DB to BU, it may work for you (it didn't for me), like explained in this video (at 37 seconds):
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YrzoIXIJAyg


Ah, I see. I've been trying to use the ring finger. Maybe pinky works better. At the moment the static friction is so big that it takes a bit of force to get the M slice moving. Not so much that it's a problem with the M' move, but pushing the M move from a slightly awkward position feels a bit heavy. Not sure if this is how it's supposed to be or if it means I should loosen up/lube the cube.


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## muchacho (Nov 7, 2015)

It will be harder than M' no matter what you do. Just try practicing to see if you get used to the move and you finger gets stronger, but loosing than inner layer might help. I think people using Roux may have their cubes a bit looser than others, because of the great use of M/M'/M2 moves, you won't (neither will I) get to the speed of GuRoux moving the M slice.


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## EvilGnome6 (Nov 7, 2015)

Alright. Today is the day I host my first competition. Wish me luck!

http://www.cubingusa.com/AZCubingFall2015/index.php


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## muchacho (Nov 7, 2015)

Good luck! How many people?


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## EvilGnome6 (Nov 7, 2015)

muchacho said:


> Good luck! How many people?



50 competitors. It's gonna be a full house.


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## h2f (Nov 7, 2015)

Good luck!


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## moralsh (Nov 7, 2015)

yep, good luck!

Some OH PBs

Single: 23.88, Ao5 34.95, Ao12 37.03

OH is my slow solve practice for 3x3 nowadays


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## h2f (Nov 7, 2015)

Nice times. I wish I had something close to these times.


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## moralsh (Nov 7, 2015)

My global average is still slightly over 40, but I'm slowly improving 

Mark just did a 3/3 Multi, congrats Mark!

http://cubecomps.com/live.php?cid=1213&compid=21


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## muchacho (Nov 7, 2015)

Very nice, Mark!



> Oliver Frost 3/3 3:19.05


This one is as impressing as strange :confused: ...may be preventing memory "overload" for other bld events?


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## Isaac Lai (Nov 7, 2015)

muchacho said:


> This one is as impressing as strange :confused: ...may be preventing memory "overload" for other bld events?



Nah, he "quit" a while ago, so I think he doesn't really do MBLD anymore.


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## Jason Green (Nov 7, 2015)

EvilGnome6 said:


> Alright. Today is the day I host my first competition. Wish me luck!
> 
> http://www.cubingusa.com/AZCubingFall2015/index.php


Cool good luck! Wish I could come!


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## cubesp (Nov 7, 2015)

EvilGnome6 said:


> 50 competitors. It's gonna be a full house.



good luck man !


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## mark49152 (Nov 7, 2015)

moralsh said:


> Mark just did a 3/3 Multi, congrats Mark!


Thanks guys. Ollie was my judge and I'm sure that gave me a bit of extra focus too!

Also got 7.15 PB average in 2x2.


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## h2f (Nov 7, 2015)

Nice Mark. Congrats. In mbld we have same score but you have much better time.

patataj patataj patataj


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## bubbagrub (Nov 7, 2015)

Congratulations to Mark for a super impressive 4BLD success... Just a few minutes after deciding to give up and go to bed... I have the execution on video, which I'll upload when I can, if Mark doesn't object...


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## moralsh (Nov 7, 2015)

Yay! Congrats Mark!

He won't object or we won't let him post here ever again, I want to see the reaction. First one is something special


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## Logiqx (Nov 7, 2015)

bubbagrub said:


> Congratulations to Mark for a super impressive 4BLD success... Just a few minutes after deciding to give up and go to bed... I have the execution on video, which I'll upload when I can, if Mark doesn't object...



Very good. I'm sure Mark will be happy you got the execution on video.


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## mark49152 (Nov 7, 2015)

bubbagrub said:


> Congratulations to Mark for a super impressive 4BLD success... Just a few minutes after deciding to give up and go to bed... I have the execution on video, which I'll upload when I can, if Mark doesn't object...


Thanks all . No objections, thanks for filming! I've been told my reaction was understated. Probably due to exhaustion 

Ben - I have your 11x11.


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## Jason Green (Nov 7, 2015)

mark49152 said:


> Thanks all . No objections. I've been told my reaction was understated. Probably due to exhaustion
> 
> Ben - I have your 11x11.


Congrats look forward to seeing that!


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## mark49152 (Nov 7, 2015)

Hey congrats to Ben too! Just been looking through all the results. As well as MBLD he got a pretty impressive sweep of PBs. 

Nice to see Bertie propel himself to the top ranks of UK MBLD as well 

And Mark it looks like they entered your 5x5 time so it's official 

Congrats to everyone who got the results they wanted.

Great fun today, looking forward to tomorrow!


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## bubbagrub (Nov 7, 2015)

mark49152 said:


> Hey congrats to Ben too! Just been looking through all the results. As well as MBLD he got a pretty impressive sweep of PBs.
> 
> Nice to see Bertie propel himself to the top ranks of UK MBLD as well
> 
> Good fun today, looking forward to tomorrow!



Thanks Mark! Yes, today was very pleasing. PBs in every event I competed in except 2x2. And MBLD was definitely the most pleasing of all. Also nice to discover that berd is a lurker on this thread. Happy birthday Bertie!

Today was amazingly well organised, and considering how many competitors and events there were, all seemed to go very smoothly. And a pretty good showing from the oldies!


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## cubesp (Nov 7, 2015)

Congrats to today's competitors!! 

We should keep a ranking of competitions with oldies to plan a global oldies event in 2016!!!

Inviato dal mio K00E utilizzando Tapatalk


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## Berd (Nov 7, 2015)

Thank you all! Well done to all on MBLD and 4BLD, insperational stuff from Mark. Really good to see you all, can't wait to see you all again and good luck tomorrow! Esesailly Mark A. in 3bld, I know how much it means to you. Thanks again folks, best 17th yet!


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## newtonbase (Nov 8, 2015)

Berd said:


> Thank you all! Well done to all on MBLD and 4BLD, insperational stuff from Mark. Really good to see you all, can't wait to see you all again and good luck tomorrow! Esesailly Mark A. in 3bld, I know how much it means to you. Thanks again folks, best 17th yet!



Thanks Bertie. Well done on your podium. 

It's been great meeting some of the guys from here. Looking forward to a busy day today especially 3BLD (and buffet breakfast).


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## Logiqx (Nov 8, 2015)

Morning all. See you at the venue in 30 mins.


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## h2f (Nov 8, 2015)

I just got LOL scramble. Should be sub-15 not 16.54 but I got nervous when I've noticed I've finished my f2l sub 10.
Scramble: F2 L2 U' F B' R F2 U D2 R F2 R D2 B2 D2 F2 R2 D'


Spoiler



Solutionz2 y2 R' F' L D2 // cross
L' U L // 1st 
y U' R U' R' U y L' U L//2nd
y' U L' U L //3rd
U' R' U' R U' y R U R'//4th
U' R' F R F' R' F R F' R U R' U' R U R' U' // OLL
U x R' U R' D2 R U' R' D2 R2


alg.cubing.net


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## MarcelP (Nov 8, 2015)

mark49152 said:


> Thanks guys. Ollie was my judge and I'm sure that gave me a bit of extra focus too!
> 
> Also got 7.15 PB average in 2x2.



Congrats Mark. I am looking forward to any video's you guys have. I am also glad I can keep my Rubiks average highscore for a little longer..


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## MarcelP (Nov 8, 2015)

h2f said:


> I just got LOL scramble. Should be sub-15 not 16.54 but I got nervous when I've noticed I've finished my f2l sub 10.
> Scramble: F2 L2 U' F B' R F2 U D2 R F2 R D2 B2 D2 F2 R2 D'
> 
> 
> ...


Nice! I went online to see if it was an official solve


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## Logiqx (Nov 8, 2015)

MarcelP said:


> Congrats Mark. I am looking forward to any video's you guys have. I am also glad I can keep my Rubiks average highscore for a little longer..



Yay to sub-9 average Pyra. Boo to sub-25 average on 3x3!

Hoping to redeem myself in OH. 

Edit: I have table footage of the Pyra average. The 3x3 solves might have got lost due to technical difficulties.


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## muchacho (Nov 8, 2015)

Logiqx said:


> Yay to sub-9 average Pyra. Boo to sub-25 average on 3x3!
> 
> Hoping to redeem myself in OH.
> 
> Edit: I have table footage of the Pyra average. The 3x3 solves might have got lost due to technical difficulties.



OH average PB by 4 seconds and single by 7 seconds, you are redeemed, sir!


_I received my stickered Megaminx, 7:46 ...so slow... but better than I expected, I no longer get confused by the colors (after changing 3 of them) so I'll continue trying to see where I get._


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## Logiqx (Nov 8, 2015)

Shame i spoiled the avg with a counting 43. The 50 would have been good if i hadn't got pll wrong and gone back to f2l. Could have been a 33-34 avg.

Sent from my GT-I9305 using Tapatalk


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## Logiqx (Nov 8, 2015)

Happy with 2 full step 31s.

Sent from my GT-I9305 using Tapatalk


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## mafergut (Nov 8, 2015)

I've been off for the whole weekend so congratulations to everyone for your official PBs and to Mike for his first time as comp organizer.


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## EvilGnome6 (Nov 8, 2015)

mafergut said:


> I've been off for the whole weekend so congratulations to everyone for your official PBs and to Mike for his first time as comp organizer.



That was exhausting but the event was a success. The worst thing about organizing is that you don't have time to warm up before your rounds. None the less, I managed to set 9 comp PBs including a global 3x3 single PB thanks to a PLL skip. By the time we did 6x6 and 7x7, I was completely fried so I didn't get any good singles but thanks to the organizer setting really generous cutoffs, I was able to set my first averages in those events.


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## MarcelP (Nov 8, 2015)

That is awesome Mike! Congrats


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## mafergut (Nov 8, 2015)

Wow! That 3x3 single! And also great 2x2 and 4x4 averages. And lots of PBs. Nice!


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## Logiqx (Nov 8, 2015)

Nice average...


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## MarcelP (Nov 8, 2015)

Cool video Mike. I think I saw some one in shorts.. You guys don't know it is almost winter?


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## bubbagrub (Nov 8, 2015)

MarcelP said:


> Cool video Mike. I think I saw some one in shorts.. You guys don't know it is almost winter?



That was probably Daniel. As far as I know, he *always* wears shorts...


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## Rastinha (Nov 8, 2015)

Hi everyone, I'm back, haha. It's been a while and I see everyone has been making great strides, leaps and bounds in my absence!

I went to the USA in September but (sorry Jason) was flat out the whole time so didn't manage to meet up with any cubers. I also barely spent any time cubing in those weeks so I got worse and then cranky about that so I took a break for a few weeks. I got back into it a week or 2 ago and have made a bit of progress on 3x3 - new PB single of 27.95 and Ao5 33.75, and I've had 3 or 4 times in the high 20s.

So, still leagues behind most of you guys, but feeling reassured that I can make progress still and that sub-30 is a possibility; I won't be stuck in the 40s and 50s forever! There's a competition a few hours away in December which I might try to make it to, but I'm at a computer science conference at the other end of the country flying back the day before so not 100% sure if I'll make it, haha


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## Logiqx (Nov 8, 2015)

Rastinha said:


> Hi everyone, I'm back, haha. It's been a while and I see everyone has been making great strides, leaps and bounds in my absence!



Welcome back. Good to hear you are improving. 

It was great to catch up with most the oldies today. Congrats to Mark for a podium finish in 4BLD... definitely the result of the competition from this group!


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## bubbagrub (Nov 8, 2015)

Here's the video of Mark's 4BLD solve:






https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J_GRoXqr0wE

Sorry the quality's not great... (the video, not the solve, obviously!)


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## Jason Green (Nov 8, 2015)

bubbagrub said:


> Here's the video of Mark's 4BLD solve:
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J_GRoXqr0wE
> 
> ...


That's pretty awesome!!

Welcome back Rastinha! I was afraid me saying we could meet while you were over made you scared I was a serial killer or something. Those days are well behind me though. Good job getting back to progress, I'm sure it would be frustrating to have a break for me!


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## newtonbase (Nov 8, 2015)

Had a great time at the comp this weekend. Meeting up with the guys from this thread was a real highlight. 

I got PBs in 3x3, Pyraminx and 4x4. 2x2 times were decent but need to be beaten next time. 9s off 5x5 hard cut but still reasonable for me. 

Then there was 3BLD. On the bright side it took me just 8 mins to rescramble the cube compared to 9 at WGC. Next time will be better. 

Congratulations on 4BLD success and Pyraminx averages etc.


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## Jason Green (Nov 9, 2015)

Here's some of my garage practice from today. I wish I could do this well on my race to sub 30, but I'll probably blow it now.


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## mark49152 (Nov 9, 2015)

bubbagrub said:


> Here's the video of Mark's 4BLD solve:


Awesome, thanks so much for filming that!! Wow, my centres are slow. Even slower than the rest of it. It's like watching slow motion. Poor Ollie! Now I have a success I feel motivated to continue 4BLD and improve my speed 

That was a fantastic weekend. Great to meet up with everyone and get immersed in cubes, and the nice results are just icing on the cake. Congrats again to everyone who got the results they wanted!


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## Rastinha (Nov 9, 2015)

Jason Green said:


> Welcome back Rastinha! I was afraid me saying we could meet while you were over made you scared I was a serial killer or something.



Haha, I was worried that me not being back on here after that might make you think that, lol. Nah, I was only there for 11 days and when you haven't been over in 25+ years there are a lot of family members to catch up with!

I'm thinking I might get into 3BLD soon. I've ordered a mini cube to see if it helps my one-handed at all, at the moment I've done about 8 OH solves in total and my best time is like 2:25 because it's just so hard to turn anything, lol. I thought I'd be happy if I could just solve a 3x3 in under 1 minute, but it never really stops does it? Haha

Hannah


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## Jason Green (Nov 9, 2015)

Rastinha said:


> Haha, I was worried that me not being back on here after that might make you think that, lol. Nah, I was only there for 11 days and when you haven't been over in 25+ years there are a lot of family members to catch up with!
> 
> I'm thinking I might get into 3BLD soon. I've ordered a mini cube to see if it helps my one-handed at all, at the moment I've done about 8 OH solves in total and my best time is like 2:25 because it's just so hard to turn anything, lol. I thought I'd be happy if I could just solve a 3x3 in under 1 minute, but it never really stops does it? Haha
> 
> Hannah


I understand. We make the 8 hour drive to my hometown a couple times a year and it's difficult to try and get together with old friends during a week or so.


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## MarcelP (Nov 9, 2015)

That 4BLD solve is mind boggling Mark. Kuddos for not doing BLD a few months ago and now being expert level! I really mean that.


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## h2f (Nov 9, 2015)

So many good times. Congrats to all of you.


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## mafergut (Nov 9, 2015)

Same here, congrats to you all. And that 4BLD!!! You make me envious... but in a good sense, like in "I want to practise more myself".


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## muchacho (Nov 9, 2015)

That 4BLD solve makes me want to practice... 3BLD... no 4BLD because that looks much harder, is it?


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## mafergut (Nov 9, 2015)

muchacho said:


> That 4BLD solve makes me want to practice... 3BLD... no 4BLD because that looks much harder, is it?



It has to. My head hurts only from thinking about it.


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## moralsh (Nov 9, 2015)

80% of it is training execution, memorizing it isn't that hard, try it!


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## RicardoRix (Nov 9, 2015)

execution is easy, memorizing is hard, especially edges. For me, 12 minutes memo, 2 minutes execution.

I only just started learning over a month ago, I got my 1st success last week, but overall learning it is a really great challenge, and thoroughly recommend it! 
In general, it has much less emphasis on algorithms and speed and feels much more like puzzle solving (learning it and doing it).


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## muchacho (Nov 9, 2015)

OK, I'll try, maybe not in this life, but probably in the next one


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## muchacho (Nov 9, 2015)

RicardoRix said:


> execution is easy, memorizing is hard, especially edges. For me, 12 minutes memo, 2 minutes execution.
> 
> I only just started learning over a month ago, I got my 1st success last week, but overall learning it is a really great challenge, and thoroughly recommend it!
> In general, it has much less emphasis on algorithms and speed and feels much more like puzzle solving (learning it and doing it).



2 minutes execution? Are you talking about 3BLD, right? if it's 4BLD that must be totally impressive for a 1st success!


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## Berd (Nov 9, 2015)

muchacho said:


> 2 minutes execution? Are you talking about 3BLD, right? if it's 4BLD that's totally impressive for a 1st success!


Almost granted seeing as sub 1 execution in 4bld is a legendary status.


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## RicardoRix (Nov 9, 2015)

Yes, 3BLD


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## muchacho (Nov 9, 2015)

Still awesome, if in 1 month from now I'm able to do 3BLD I would really impress myself.


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## RicardoRix (Nov 9, 2015)

muchacho said:


> Still awesome, if in 1 month from now I'm able to do 3BLD I would really impress myself.



You can learn it in steps. Corners and Edges are totally independent.
Start with just the corners. It's the easiest method (old pochmann) and there are only 8 pieces to solve (7 really). And you need just 1 algorithm (modified Y-Perm).
And you start with sighted solves until you get the hang of it.

1 month in total maybe a bit of an exaggeration. 2 months is probably closer to the truth.


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## muchacho (Nov 9, 2015)

I started researching a few days ago (and I'm already trying to see if I'm able to memorize letter pairs or not), 3BLD looks too much but as you said it's just some not too difficult parts that can be learned/practiced one by one.


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## RicardoRix (Nov 9, 2015)

This timer has a 'corners only' scrambler: http://cstimer.net/timer.php. It's not needed but helps I think with the initial deciphering the letter of the sticker, rather than just the centres you have all of the edge pieces to help as well.

two other nice resources:
http://di-mare.com/scrambld/
http://tobip.ch/letter_pair_generator/


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## muchacho (Nov 9, 2015)

They look really nice, but I'm not going to use the same letters (W or X are not very good for Spanish words, and I'm not good with English words and making sentences out of them).

Maybe I'll create a tool similar to those 2, or I'll use this one:
http://csclub.uwaterloo.ca/~krmatthe/BLD-Memo-Tools.cgi


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## newtonbase (Nov 9, 2015)

I used to practice corners on a 2x2. It's more encouraging to finish with a solved cube.


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## muchacho (Nov 9, 2015)

Sure it is, that only-corners scrambles comes in handy, I suppose it's better to practice with a 3x3 instead of a 2x2.


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## RicardoRix (Nov 9, 2015)

muchacho said:


> They look really nice, but I'm not going to use the same letters (W or X are not very good for Spanish words, and I'm not good with English words and making sentences out of them).
> 
> Maybe I'll create a tool similar to those 2, or I'll use this one:
> http://csclub.uwaterloo.ca/~krmatthe/BLD-Memo-Tools.cgi



Yes, definitely start as you mean to go on.

Q and X don't form good words in English. But I try to use 'themes'. X is starwars or X-Rated, and Q is Queen or Queer. For some reason QB is queer bear, makes for an funny looking distinct image that sticks in the memory. Apparently you should use violent, funny, sexual images, something that shocks you a bit like a X-rated david lynch film. Faces and people work about 1000% better than anything else. I was really please when I thought of Julio Iglesias for JI.

That reminds me, http://peoplebyinitials.com/


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## muchacho (Nov 9, 2015)

RicardoRix said:


> That reminds me, http://peoplebyinitials.com/


Nice, famous people (and friends/family) and cities/countries seem to work best for me!

One question, if I use numbers for corners I'm ok using only 23 letters for edges?


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## JanW (Nov 9, 2015)

muchacho said:


> One question, if I use numbers for corners I'm ok using only 23 letters for edges?


In theory you only need 22 letters for edges and 21 for corners, since you are never shooting to the buffer. But it's not really practical to just pick the best and 22 letters, unless your edge and corner buffers are adjacent so that you can have the same letters on the same face for both corners and edges. Also, alphabet is probably easier to remember in sequence than with gaps.

One thing that can help image memo is to combine the images with some familiar locations. For corners you could have a 4 step route that goes from your driveway to the frontdoor, to whatever room you first see when you open the front door, to the kitchen. Then when you do memo, you imagine the images in those locations and when you get to solving you imagine yourself walking that route. So you get home from work, in the driveway there's a Queen Bear. You get out of the car, walk to the frontdoor and there you are greeted by Julio Iglesias, and so on. If you want images for edges as well, then that should be a completely different 6 step route, for example through your workplace, or childhood home, or something like that. Placing the images in a familiar location can add to the absurdity that makes them easier to remember, and by always following the same route in the same order, you won't forget the order of the images. I would imagine this also comes very much in handy for multiblind when each cube can be a separate location.

Don't know, maybe this is already standard knowledge around here, just didn't see it mentioned in any tutorial video yet.


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## muchacho (Nov 9, 2015)

I'll use numbers for corners (the Boomerang method, it uses preorientation... maybe not a good idea, but it seems to have the right amount of fun for me).

http://renslay.byethost11.com/boomerang.html


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## mark49152 (Nov 9, 2015)

MarcelP said:


> That 4BLD solve is mind boggling Mark. Kuddos for not doing BLD a few months ago and now being expert level! I really mean that.


Hey I got a trophy too  There were only four successful competitors but two of them were not UK folks, so I am officially UK Champs silver medallist  The winner took 5 mins compared to my snail-pace 24 minutes!



muchacho said:


> That 4BLD solve makes me want to practice... 3BLD... no 4BLD because that looks much harder, is it?


If you learn M2/OP for 3BLD first, 4BLD is not much harder. It uses very similar principles and there are 3-4 extra algs to learn. There's more to memorize of course, equivalent to about 2.5x the information of a 3x3. Give it a go! Definitely do plenty of sighted solves (including writing down memo and executing from that) to get the hang of it before trying blind.



JanW said:


> For corners you could have a 4 step route that goes from your driveway to the frontdoor, to whatever room you first see when you open the front door, to the kitchen.


Whatever works for you, it's personal; but from the expert tutorials I've watched, the most common advice is that compound images are the most effective. So you pick one room or location for your corners and put all the images there. Maybe a queen bear and Julio Iglesias sat on your sofa having a hug and eating cake. Personally I group 5 letter pairs per image but I think 3-4 is more common. 3BLD corners usually fit in one image which is located in my bed. For 4BLD I use up most of the house .



muchacho said:


> I'll use numbers for corners


Hmmm. Which of these is easier to remember?

SX FK AL NT

11 4 6 17 15 3 7 5


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## muchacho (Nov 9, 2015)

mark49152 said:


> If you learn M2/OP for 3BLD first, 4BLD is not much harder. It uses very similar principles and there are 3-4 extra algs to learn. There's more to memorize of course, equivalent to about 2.5x the information of a 3x3. Give it a go! Definitely do plenty of sighted solves (including writing down memo and executing from that) to get the hang of it before trying blind.


Oh, I just assumed commutators were a must for 4BLD, maybe I could try someday if it's basically only more information to remember.



mark49152 said:


> Hmmm. Which of these is easier to remember?
> 
> SX FK AL NT
> 
> 11 4 6 17 15 3 7 5


Sure, it's easier to remember with letters, but if corners is something like "1 alg or 2 + 25 43 61 71" (this method preorients corners) and it's the first thing to be executed then I think I may handle it, at least I'll try.


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## mark49152 (Nov 9, 2015)

muchacho said:


> Oh, I just assumed commutators were a must for 4BLD, maybe I could try someday if it's basically only more information to remember.


I solve wings with r2, which is similar to M2, and centres piece-by-piece using U2. I learned from Noah's tutorial. The consensus seems to be that U2 is painful due to all the slice moves necessary for setups, and to get faster you should learn comms for centres ASAP, but it's not essential just to get a success.

After lunch I tried a 4BLD solve aiming for speed rather than playing safe. Instead of memorising centres, wings, corners all with images, I memoed wings and corners first, with images, then memoed centres with audio and solved them first. Got a PB by 9 minutes - 15:45.



muchacho said:


> Sure, it's easier to remember with letters, but if corners is something like "1 alg or 2 + 25 43 61 71" (this method preorients corners) and it's the first thing to be executed then I think I may handle it, at least I'll try.


Maybe it's better for preorientation, I don't know anything about preorientation methods.


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## h2f (Nov 9, 2015)

mark49152 said:


> After lunch I tried a 4BLD solve aiming for speed rather than playing safe. Instead of memorising centres, wings, corners all with images, I memoed wings and corners first, with images, then memoed centres with audio and solved them first. Got a PB by 9 minutes - 15:45.
> .



Nice. And congratulations for silver medal in 4bld.


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## mark49152 (Nov 9, 2015)

h2f said:


> Nice. And congratulations for silver medal in 4bld.


Thanks Grzegorz. What method do you use for 4BLD and 5BLD?


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## h2f (Nov 9, 2015)

mark49152 said:


> Thanks Grzegorz. What method do you use for 4BLD and 5BLD?



It's always nice to read my name although I know it looks strange in English (whats "rz"  ) 


In big blindes I use comms for centers and corners and r2/m2 for wings or midges and advanced cases if I can and a nice trick for targets from l-slices Ollie Frost showed in his tutorial. And parity alg for wings Robert Yau showed in one thread. But I dont practice for few weeks - just few solves for weekly competition.


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## mark49152 (Nov 10, 2015)

h2f said:


> In big blindes I use comms for centers and corners and r2/m2 for wings or midges and advanced cases if I can and a nice trick for targets from l-slices Ollie Frost showed in his tutorial. And parity alg for wings Robert Yau showed in one thread.


What do you use for fixing wing/midge parity in 5BLD?

Also do you know any good comm lists for 4/5BLD centres, for UBR/UR buffers?


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## h2f (Nov 10, 2015)

For wings I use r' U2 r U2 r' U2 x r U2 r U2 r U2 r2 U2 x' r' U2. Robert Yau wrote it here. Of course it works only for wings in every big cube solved with r2 method. I use it also on 5bld and 6bld (only sighted solves so far). It's the best alg - no setups, easy to memorize, fast execution. 


For midges in 5bld theres no easy way to fix it. I think I do the most common way - first I switch UBR and UBL, m2, next F2 and parity alg for wings (Rw2 F2 U2 r2 U2 F2 Rw2), Tperm, F2. 

For centers I use few Ollie's algs with Ubl as a buffer. I think he has best algs for big blindes but stil I havent learnt them. If you want them for Ubr you need to mirror them but I think most top cubers take Ubl. I dont know why. I've switched to Ubl when I learnt comms for centers - it's not hard and the rule of doing comms is similiar to U2 method


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## moralsh (Nov 10, 2015)

For wings I use 2R2 D' L' F (2L' U2 2L' U2 F2 2L' F2 2R U2 2R' U2 2L2) F' L D its also fast and easy to memorize. For Corner-Midges y swap UL and UR and the adjacent wings.

Center comms are pretty intuitive, just play aroud a bit with the cube and you'll find them easily. I normally use u or d as the interchange layers and set uo (if I need toset up any of the 3) first target first, then second, then buffer, Once you are comfortable with this, you can learn some tricks for D or U targets.

I find + centers easier because you have 3 interchange layers available instead of 2 but start learning the x centers.


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## h2f (Nov 10, 2015)

moralsh said:


> For wings I use 2R2 D' L' F (2L' U2 2L' U2 F2 2L' F2 2R U2 2R' U2 2L2) F' L D its also fast and easy to memorize. For Corner-Midges y swap UL and UR and the adjacent wings.



I used it - setup, alg, undo setup.  Comms for centers were pretty hard for me - I was learning it few days, than I've made a break and suddenly I understood how to do them. I found + centers harder at the beginning but now I think they are easier. Today I've made 5bld attempt. I did +centers and during xcenters somone rang to the door, and when I was back I've mistaken.


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## mark49152 (Nov 10, 2015)

I use Raul's alg for 4x4 wing parity. Rob's alg is nicer, but the other one has already stuck in my head so it will suffice, and it seems to work on 5x5 too.

My question was about midge/corner parity and how to fix that on 5x5. Having looked at answers and other resources I think what I will do is use my regular M2 parity fix D' L2 D M2 * D' L2 D and at the star insert F2 Rw2 F2 U2 r2 U2 F2 Rw2 F2 to do a double wing swap. Just a variation of what was posted above, I think.

I tried a 5BLD by writing down the memo and executing sighted. Man it takes forever!


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## Logiqx (Nov 10, 2015)

Logiqx said:


> UKC is getting close and there will be a few of the oldies in attendance!
> 
> 
> Ben Coppin (bubbagrub)
> ...



It was nice to meet up with you guys over the weekend, chat and put some new faces against names. 

@Ian: I'm sure you'll bounce back from your OH experience. I hope you enjoyed meeting everyone and watching the fast guys!


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## RicardoRix (Nov 10, 2015)

I've taken the liberty of creating age category results for the 3x3 first round:

90 Michael George 17.57 24.88 United Kingdom 21.73 27.44 25.48 42.46 17.57 
92 Ben Coppin 19.79 25.41 United Kingdom 36.05 25.69 28.55 21.99 19.79 141 
97 Mark Rivers 18.81 26.14 United Kingdom 18.81 29.78 24.26 29.04 25.11 
115 Richard Leiser 27.34 32.81 United Kingdom 35.73 32.17 30.54 36.23 27.34 
136 Mark Adams 30.91 41.56 United Kingdom 44.29 30.91 39.58 51.56 40.80 
141 Guy Plowman 39.93 47.31 United Kingdom 1:00.29 47.55 49.62 39.93 44.75 
Ian Pepper No result found.


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## mark49152 (Nov 10, 2015)

RicardoRix said:


> I've taken the liberty of creating age category results for the 3x3 first round:
> 
> 90 Michael George 17.57 24.88 United Kingdom 21.73 27.44 25.48 42.46 17.57
> 92 Ben Coppin 19.79 25.41 United Kingdom 36.05 25.69 28.55 21.99 19.79 141
> ...


My worst comp average by 5 seconds - can we use PBs please?


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## SenorJuan (Nov 10, 2015)

Thanks, Mike. I'll no doubt try again some time. After I've regained my composure. And read up on some 'stress management' books, sigh.
Overall, it was enjoyable, lots of nice people, and a relaxed atmosphere.
Adam Greenwood suggested I brush up on 2x2x2, 2H 3x3x3 and learn how to do 4x4x4 (properly). Then at least I could compete more, even if my times were rubbish.
And thanks to Comfy-hatted Tyler, I now have a Moyu Weisu 4x4x4 to play with. It's nice to use a proper one (KongShou claims on his shop site that it will be Awesome when broken in, ahem). Guess I won't be using my Revenge again!( it's so old it's actually a 'Master').
Yes, watched some darn good cubers, I would've liked to have seen Breandans ER, but he doesn't have long hair anymore, so I didn't recognise him. That's my excuse, anyway.
And I got a T-shirt, too. GJ, as the saying goes.


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## Logiqx (Nov 10, 2015)

RicardoRix said:


> 90 Michael George 17.57 24.88 United Kingdom 21.73 27.44 25.48 42.46 17.57



I'd almost forgotten about that sup-42 solve. Thanks for reminding me about it.


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## Logiqx (Nov 10, 2015)

Mark's Podium:


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## Jason Green (Nov 10, 2015)

Logiqx said:


> Mark's Podium:
> 
> https://youtu.be/ElZfZAjkIPE


So cool! I don't ever think I'll place in anything, but who knows.


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## Logiqx (Nov 10, 2015)

Comedy 3x3 solve...






Best OH solves of the day...


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## Logiqx (Nov 11, 2015)

I've updated the over-40's results:

https://www.speedsolving.com/forum/showthread.php?54128-How-fast-are-the-over-40-s-in-competitions


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## muchacho (Nov 11, 2015)

Nice!

Changes I see:
- Year has been added.
- The first one of each event was not bolded until now, right?

Any cuber added?


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## mark49152 (Nov 11, 2015)

Logiqx said:


> Mark's Podium:
> 
> https://youtu.be/ElZfZAjkIPE


Cool, thanks!


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## Logiqx (Nov 11, 2015)

muchacho said:


> Nice!
> 
> Changes I see:
> - Year has been added.
> ...



Yes. A few new people were also added but I forget who... I made those changes weeks ago.


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## h2f (Nov 11, 2015)

Nice to see your podium Mark. Your sub-42 Michael makes me smile.


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## MarcelP (Nov 11, 2015)

Logiqx said:


> Comedy 3x3 solve...



LOL, I could see with the very cool 17.57 you where still pissed off by the sup 40...LOL..


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## Logiqx (Nov 11, 2015)

MarcelP said:


> LOL, I could see with the very cool 17.57 you where still pissed off by the sup 40...LOL..



LOL, yes.


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## h2f (Nov 11, 2015)

I got 3 pll skips in 5 solves when I was doing OH for weekly competiotion. Not in a row. It gave me AO5: 38.83 (24.41, 43.77, 37.86, 58.40, 34.88).


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## Jason Green (Nov 12, 2015)

I had my first sub 20 tonight, wow! I don't even know if it was a skip or what.  I'll be on a cubing high for a bit now!!


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## EvilGnome6 (Nov 12, 2015)

Jason Green said:


> I had my first sub 20 tonight, wow! I don't even know if it was a skip or what.  I'll be on a cubing high for a bit now!!



Congrats! My first sub-20 was also an 18.xx. Good job!


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## Jason Green (Nov 12, 2015)

EvilGnome6 said:


> Congrats! My first sub-20 was also an 18.xx. Good job!


That's cool.  Thanks!


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## h2f (Nov 12, 2015)

Jason Green said:


> I had my first sub 20 tonight, wow! I don't even know if it was a skip or what.  I'll be on a cubing high for a bit now!!



Nice feeling, isnt it? Congratulations.


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## Jason Green (Nov 12, 2015)

h2f said:


> Nice feeling, isnt it? Congratulations.


Thank you, yeah it was an awesome feeling!


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## muchacho (Nov 12, 2015)

Congrats! Very nice average also.


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## JanW (Nov 12, 2015)

Congratulation indeed, sub 20 is very impressive!

I haven't done any timed solves at all in the last few days. Got too distracted by that commutator stuff, which got me interested in how algs actually work. As a result I've now developed my own system for edge 3-cycles, based on the very simple 2-gen alg R U R U R U' R' U' R', which allows me to solve any edge 3-cycle with 1-2 setup moves. (I know that doesn't align the U-face correctly, but this is intentional, as the last U-face alignment very often will cancel with setup moves and I have a separate rule for how to deal with that.) With variations to that alg I can solve any 3-cycle from UF to BR to any one of UL, UB, UR, FR or DR. It can also of course be done to the left, or from UB to FR instead of UF to BR, and so on. Or any of those cycles in reverse. Basically it is a set of quite straight forward rules that determines how to alter the alg for each case. The algorithm itself stays just as simple all the time. As I can solve such a great amount of different cases, the amount of setup moves can be kept very small, keeping the total move count for each 3-cycle at 10-14. Does any of this sound familiar to anyone? I mean, am I reinventing the wheel here, or should I write a more in depth tutorial on this to share with the cubing world?


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## Logiqx (Nov 12, 2015)

JanW said:


> I haven't done any timed solves at all in the last few days. Got too distracted by that commutator stuff, which got me interested in how algs actually work. As a result I've now developed my own system for edge 3-cycles, based on the very simple 2-gen alg R U R U R U' R' U' R', which allows me to solve any edge 3-cycle with 1-2 setup moves.



Yes, I've also used that trick myself when free-styling with just a few random edges to solve (sighted, not blind).

You might want to look at the MU forms of the U-perm as well since they are also good. I prefer MU algs for edge cycles, except on big cubes and solving one-handed (RU algs).


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## h2f (Nov 12, 2015)

Logiqx said:


> Yes, I've also used that trick myself when free-styling with just a few random edges to solve (sighted, not blind).
> 
> You might want to look at the MU forms of the U-perm as well since they are also good. I prefer MU algs for edge cycles, except on big cubes and solving one-handed (RU algs).



There are also few M U tricks from Turbo. I mean M U M' U2 M U M' or M U' M' U2 M U' M. Adding few setups you may solve some 3cycles. In my opinion Turbo helps a lot to transist to full 3cycle edges. I also do Uperms with M slice but only in turbo.


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## JanW (Nov 12, 2015)

Logiqx said:


> Yes, I've also used that trick myself when free-styling with just a few random edges to solve (sighted, not blind).


Yeah, I don't know, maybe this is already widely known, but I haven't managed to find any post or video that describes this technique. It's so much more efficient than for example Turbo edges, that I'm a bit surprised it hasn't been defined as a technique. It's more efficient, because it allows a lot more different setups, meaning less setup moves, while it also basically requires only one algorithm. On top of that the R U' R U R U R U' R' U' R2 alg, that I assume many people use for turbo, uses this technique with setups and undo of setups. So why do setup to one alg that does setup to another alg, then undo both setups, when you can just head straight to a shorter alg?

Just to take a couple of examples from Zane's Turbo tutorial. UF->BU->LB, he needs 3 setup moves (L B' R') and an 11 move algorithm (U' R U R' U' M' U R U' Rw' U). I'd do 1 setup move (b') and a 10 mover (U2 R U R U R2 U' R' U' R'). Next example UF->RB->RF he does R b setup, then 11 mover. I'd do x R U' R' U' R' U2 R U R U l. And for the next one, his least favorite turbo case, UF->LD->BL, he suggests S2 L setup and again an 11 mover. If S moves are okay to use, then just do S setup and L' U' L' U' L' U L U L U.


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## h2f (Nov 12, 2015)

JanW said:


> It's so much more efficient than for example Turbo edges



I dont think so. I mean - pure comms are more efficient than Turbo, but the techinque you've described is not pure comms. Turbo is efficient because you dont have to think much about setups - they are maxiumum 3 movers and algs are very easy to execute sub2. And you dont have to figure them out. And adding some easy comms you can make them shorter. Your example UF->BU->LB you can do: [F' L2 F, M] which takes only 8 moves. That's why this technique is not best option - better is to learn pure comms. 

Edit for UF - RB - RF i would do B' and [R F R' F', M2] but your alg is efficient. For UF - LD - BL it's enough to make B and [F' L' F, M2]. Etc.

Edit2: I think it's fine you try to figure out your way of learning comms but it's not efficient as it might seem. Sometimes is, sometimes it is not. It is good to know few ways of doing it to find best solution.


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## mark49152 (Nov 12, 2015)

JanW said:


> Just to take a couple of examples from Zane's Turbo tutorial. UF->BU->LB, he needs 3 setup moves (L B' R') and an 11 move algorithm (U' R U R' U' M' U R U' Rw' U). I'd do 1 setup move (b') and a 10 mover (U2 R U R U R2 U' R' U' R').


As an M2 user, I would do B' (U R' U') M2 (U R U') M2 B to solve BU->LB from my DF buffer.



JanW said:


> Next example UF->RB->RF he does R b setup, then 11 mover. I'd do x R U' R' U' R' U2 R U R U l.


B M2 (B' R2 B) M2 (B' R2), again from DF.



JanW said:


> And for the next one, his least favorite turbo case, UF->LD->BL, he suggests S2 L setup and again an 11 mover. If S moves are okay to use, then just do S setup and L' U' L' U' L' U L U L U.


Regular M2 for this one, so (B L B') M2 (B L' B') (U' L U) M2 (U' L' U). However, unlike TuRBo, M2 doesn't force me to solve two pieces at a time, so I have the option of combining with their other adjacent pieces instead. This example is my letter pair GR. If it came up in a sequence AI GR BW then I would execute as A (IG) (RB) W instead. IG = M2 (B L B') M (B L' B) M. RB = L (U M' U2 M U) L'.


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## JanW (Nov 12, 2015)

h2f said:


> I dont think so. I mean - pure comms are more efficient than Turbo, but the techinque you've described is not pure comms. Turbo is efficient because you dont have to think much about setups - they are maxiumum 3 movers and algs are very easy to execute sub2. And you dont have to figure them out. And adding some easy comms you can make them shorter.


Technically it is a kind of commutator as well. UF-BR-UR could be written as [U R U R, U], UF-BR-DR is [U R U R, U'] and UF-BR-FR is [U R U R, U2]. The only difference is that the interchange move is undone in the other layer, so the execution of the first example would be (U R U R) U (R' U' R' U') R', the second (U R U R) U' (R' U' R' U') R and the last one becomes (U R U R) U2 (R' U' R' U') R2.

I don't quite think of thes like that though, I only look at the locations of one piece and where it should go. The important piece is the one that stays in the interchange layer. 

The steps for UF to 2 pieces on outer right layer are:
1. You should have one piece in UF and two pieces on outer right layer (UR, BR, DR or FR)
2. Notice which of the pieces is supposed to stay on the right layer and take note in which direction it is moving and where it should end up. For now I'll call this piece P.
3. Move P to BR
4. Do U R U R ?? R' U' R' U' where ?? will be U' if the P is moving clockwise around R layer, U if P is moving counterclockwise and U2 if P should move 180 degrees.
5. Once done, P will be back at BR, bring it from there to the location it should end up

So for example UF-FR-DR, the R layer is the interchange layer with two pieces and the U layer has one lone piece. The piece currently at FR is the one staying in the interchange layer, and I notice that it should do a counterclockwise move to DR. I bring it to BR with R2, then do (U R U R) U (R' U' R' U'), then bring it from BR to DR with an R move. This way I automatically take care of any cancellations in the R layer moves.

If I have 2 pieces on U layer and one piece in BR, it works the same way. Bring the piece that is supposed to stay on U layer to UF, do alg R U R U ?? U' R' U' R', where ?? is R' if the piece on U layer is moving clockwise, R if moving counterclockwise and R2 if a double move, then finish by bringing that piece from UF to it's final destination.

To expand to further directions, all you need to know is that the piece travels within it's own layer should be opposite to the single piece in the other layer (for example UB to 2 pieces on outer left layer, then the piece staying on left layer should be brought to FL) and the alg always starts by bringing the single piece away from the other layer. So UB to 2 piece on outer left layer, you start by moving UB away from L layer and it becomes [U L U L, ??]. Same rules apply to the interchange move as earlier. UF to 2 pieces on left layer starts by moving UF away from L layer, so it becomes U' L' U' L', and so on. This might appear confusing at first, but after a few dozen solves with this technique, the execution part of the alg has become pretty much automatic. I don't need to think if it should be start U' R' or R U or whatever, just move the single piece away from the other layer and the rest follows automatically.

Sure, there are certainly better ways for many cases as well. I've now only tried to find out how far this technique can be stretched, which is why I've done solves where I apply this to every 3-cycle. So far I haven't found a case that would require more than 2 setup moves. For real solves I would for sure use some basic M-slice commutators as well. I mean, a 4-move commutator is a 4-move commutator and there's no competing with that. But for freestyling, these rules can surely help you come up with good algs for many different cases.


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## h2f (Nov 12, 2015)

Thanks for the explanation. Now it looks more clear to me. I wonder where it will bring you.


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## JanW (Nov 13, 2015)

h2f said:


> I wonder where it will bring you.


At least it brought me my first blind edge solves.  Based on these first few blind attempts, I'd say it is definitely easier than corner commutators. Accuracy was also pretty good. While only 3 of my first 6 attempts were successful, two of the failed attempts were caused by me not knowing my letter scheme. Once I memorized the wrong letter, the other time I memorized Q, but when it came up in the solve I somehow read Q as sticker location X instead... In all those solves there was only one mistake in execution. I solved a cycle in the wrong direction. I have a feeling this could be quite fast once I get the hang of it. But next I'll drill those parity algs so that I can attempt full blind solves.


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## mark49152 (Nov 13, 2015)

First five 3BLD solves of the day: 2:12, 2:13, 2:15, 1:45, 2:12. Ao5 = 2:12.93. Followed by a few DNFs . I think more 4BLD practice is helping my 3BLD too!


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## h2f (Nov 14, 2015)

Nice Mark. 

During last month I did around 300 solves with 3style/turbo. Yesterday I had first two sub 1:30 in a row. I could do mo3 sub 1:30 but dnfed third. I'm around my M2 level at the time maybe a little slower.


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## mark49152 (Nov 14, 2015)

h2f said:


> Nice Mark.
> 
> During last month I did around 300 solves with 3style/turbo. Yesterday I had first two sub 1:30 in a row. I could do mo3 sub 1:30 but dnfed third. I'm around my M2 level at the time maybe a little slower.


Good progress!

I'm feeling confident enough now with my advanced M2 that I'm motivated to start looking at corner comms again. I'll have another try at including some in my solves. At the moment I don't use them because they make me pause.


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## MarcelP (Nov 14, 2015)

mark49152 said:


> First five 3BLD solves of the day: 2:12, 2:13, 2:15, 1:45, 2:12. Ao5 = 2:12.93. Followed by a few DNFs . I think more 4BLD practice is helping my 3BLD too!



Wow, that is pretty professional  I have not started practicing BLD yet but have watched my first M2 video on Youtube.. I still have to watch it a few times again and start doing it myself.. But time is far and between lately...


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## h2f (Nov 14, 2015)

mark49152 said:


> Good progress!
> 
> I'm feeling confident enough now with my advanced M2 that I'm motivated to start looking at corner comms again. I'll have another try at including some in my solves. At the moment I don't use them because they make me pause.



Thanks. I must start including more edge comms. Corner comms still makes me psuse too but it's worth. You need tons of solves to make them fast, but when I got easy cases in my memo I can do it very fast. So it's worth switching.


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## muchacho (Nov 14, 2015)

BLD progress:
- corners: None, I'll use Boomerang but I'll try to find better algs.
- edges: Learned lettering scheme and most of the setup moves.
- memo: I've generated a list of words and I've been practicing (just a bit) to generate sentences and remembering them.

3x3 progress: Not much, but Ao100 today, 31.91 (edit: 31.78 now) with the Tanglong I received a few days ago, it's good, I just need to lube it and resticker it.


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## mark49152 (Nov 14, 2015)

h2f said:


> Thanks. I must start including more edge comms. Corner comms still makes me psuse too but it's worth. You need tons of solves to make them fast, but when I got easy cases in my memo I can do it very fast. So it's worth switching.


In sighted, untimed solves it's easier, but in timed solves I always find myself going for the safer, pause-free option. Actually at UKC I found myself doing basic M2 and avoiding any of the M2 tricks I've been using for weeks at home, for the same reason. I was quite frustrated with myself for that.

I'm focusing on the very easiest corner cases first, like GC, SC, GK, SK and their inverses. Once I have the hang of spotting and including comms, I'll add cases.

@Marcel: Looking forward to you joining in with 3BLD 

Nice clip of Ben succeeding in that Toy Testers TV video


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## h2f (Nov 14, 2015)

mark49152 said:


> In sighted, untimed solves it's easier, but in timed solves I always find myself going for the safer, pause-free option. Actually at UKC I found myself doing basic M2 and avoiding any of the M2 tricks I've been using for weeks at home, for the same reason.


I did the same last time. In my Best time i did 2 op corners. 




patataj patataj patataj


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## Logiqx (Nov 14, 2015)

This video has absolutely nothing to do with cubing but it does show one aspect of my other hobby.

Recorded yesterday not far from the home town of Mark Rivers. I would have tried some OH solves but I needed to hold on with both hands...


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## muchacho (Nov 14, 2015)

That's too fast! no speeding tickets in West Kirby?

Falling at that speed would be dangerous or only painful?


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## MarcelP (Nov 14, 2015)

Very cool and very nice music!


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## Logiqx (Nov 14, 2015)

muchacho said:


> That's too fast! no speeding tickets in West Kirby?



LOL. No speeding tickets on the lake. 

The top speed in the video is over 50mph so faster than the roads alongside it which have a 30mph speed limit!



muchacho said:


> Falling at that speed would be dangerous or only painful?



We do crash occasionally and it can hurt... a lot.

I crashed at 50mph earlier this year, needed stitches and it took about two months for my ribs to stop hurting.

On the upside, I got a lot more time to practice my speed cubing whilst I recovered. 



MarcelP said:


> Very cool and very nice music!



Thanks. Dream Theater... one of the favourite bands and worth checking out if you like prog rock.


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## EvilGnome6 (Nov 14, 2015)

Logiqx said:


> Thanks. Dream Theater... one of the favourite bands and worth checking out if you like *prog rock*.



PING!

I'm a big fan of progressive rock, especially Symphonic Prog and Rock Progressivo Italiano. My entire collection is cataloged here: https://rateyourmusic.com/~EvilGnome6

I just did a tally of the tags and I have 1,514 progressive rock albums. I might have a problem.


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## Logiqx (Nov 14, 2015)

EvilGnome6 said:


> PING!
> 
> I'm a big fan of progressive rock, especially Symphonic Prog and Rock Progressivo Italiano. My entire collection is cataloged here: https://rateyourmusic.com/~EvilGnome6
> 
> I just did a tally of the tags and I have 1,514 progressive rock albums. I might have a problem.



That's an impressive collection.


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## Jason Green (Nov 14, 2015)

Logiqx said:


> This video has absolutely nothing to do with cubing but it does show one aspect of my other hobby.
> 
> Recorded yesterday not far from the home town of Mark Rivers. I would have tried some OH solves but I needed to hold on with both hands...
> 
> https://youtu.be/e_0Wn7PYRT4


Pretty cool, I'd be scared to try that.


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## muchacho (Nov 14, 2015)

I like Dream Theater, but I'm more into electronic/industrial/EBM music, bands like Suicide Commando, Hocico, Wumpscut, And One, Leaether Strip, Alien Vampires, KMFDM...




muchacho said:


> 3x3 progress: Not much, but Ao100 today, 31.91 (edit: 31.78 now) with the Tanglong I received a few days ago, it's good, I just need to lube it and resticker it.



More PBs, I really like that Tanglong...

Ao100: 31.08
Ao12: 27.79 (previously was 29.03)
Ao5: 25.60 (was 26.10)


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## EvilGnome6 (Nov 15, 2015)

Dinner!


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## h2f (Nov 15, 2015)

Logiqx said:


> This video has absolutely nothing to do with cubing but it does show one aspect of my other hobby.
> 
> Recorded yesterday not far from the home town of Mark Rivers. I would have tried some OH solves but I needed to hold on with both hands...
> 
> https://youtu.be/e_0Wn7PYRT4



Awsome. Awsome. Awsome.


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## newtonbase (Nov 15, 2015)

EvilGnome6 said:


> Dinner!
> 
> http://azcubing.com/dinner.jpg



Looks delicious.


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## MarcelP (Nov 15, 2015)

EvilGnome6 said:


> Dinner!
> 
> http://azcubing.com/dinner.jpg



The pink 2X2 is sexy LOL.. It's 10:50 in the morning and I became hungry look at that picture.


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## muchacho (Nov 15, 2015)

I haven't done 2x2 in almost a week, and this is the first 12 solves...

06.479 R2 U2 R' U2 R' U' R F'
05.168 U2 R F R' U2 F' U' F2 U'
05.208 U' F2 R2 F' R F R' F
07.783 R2 U F2 R' F2 R U F' U2
10.624 R F2 R' U' F2 R U2 R' U'
07.408 F U' R2 U F2 R2 U' R'
07.320 R F U' R2 U2 F U' R F R
05.727 F2 R2 U2 R F2 R F R' U'
07.055 R' F2 U' F U' R F R
05.640 U' F U' F R U R' U' R2
09.040 U F2 U R' U R2 F U' R'
06.263 U2 F U' R' F U' R2 U' R' U2

That's new PBs:
Mo10: 6.84 (was 7.31)
Ao12: 6.79 (was 7.48)

And 0.1 away from Ao5 and Mo3 PBs. I think it were easy scrambles, but even so it feel sooo unreal.


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## Berd (Nov 15, 2015)

EvilGnome6 said:


> Dinner!
> 
> http://azcubing.com/dinner.jpg


2x2 MBLD!


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## EvilGnome6 (Nov 15, 2015)

MarcelP said:


> The pink 2X2 is sexy LOL..



My wife wanted a pink 2x2 and the only solution was to make a set of LingPo Force Cubes.


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## JanW (Nov 15, 2015)

Cool to see so many Dream Theater fans around. Used to be a huge fan, had signed posters of John Petrucci and Mike Portnoy above my bed as a teenager.

Got the Yuxin 5x5 on Friday. I haven't read or watched any tutorials on larger cubes yet, but played around a bit with it yesterday to see how far I can get with 3x3 knowledge and logic. Did several solves from scratch, but every time I ended up with this: 



I solved the centers first, then tried to group all the edge pieces together and finally solve 3x3. But always in the second step I'd end up with a situation where I had all the edge pieces grouped, except 2 edges had the middle piece swapped. I'm assuming this is some kind of parity thingy, or? I should probably look up some tutorial for how to get around this problem, and for how to be more efficient with the previous steps. What would be a good tutorial for learning 5x5?


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## EvilGnome6 (Nov 15, 2015)

There are several edge parity cases on 5x5. I learned all the algorithms on Andy Klise's site:

http://www.kungfoomanchu.com/guides/andy-klise-5x5x5-guide-v3.pdf

Don't be overwhelmed. Several of those are mirrors and many of them are pretty intuitive and are variations on slice/edge flip/slice back. In fact, you can reduce any of the edge parity cases to the r2 B2 U2 l U2 r' U2 r U2 F2 r F2 l' B2 r2 case using slice/edge flip/slice back.

I'm not sure about good tutorials. I solve it pretty much like a 4x4 with Yau and the half-centers method but most people think it's better to use reduction.


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## newtonbase (Nov 15, 2015)

Crazybadcuber does some decent videos on big cube edges and centres.


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## Lid (Nov 15, 2015)

I got loads of stuff on my webpage also: http://hem.bredband.net/_zlv_/rubiks/index.html


_edit: _wooo post #6000 in this tread


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## JanW (Nov 15, 2015)

Thanks for those links and tips! Will check them out.

But first I must celebrate with a beer, because I just did my first successful blind solve!!  Only second attempt at solving the full cube blind, was quite surprised to see the cube solved when I opened my eyes. First attempt ended in a complete mess. 

I used comms for corners and my own system for edge 3-cycles. I had 4 corner cycles and 6 edge cycles, no parity. Didn't time memo, execution was 6:59. I noticed while solving, that in many cases I saw one possible setup, but then I still spent some time looking for a shorter setup. In this particular solve I probably spent 2-3 minutes on one edge cycle, UF-DL-LF. I saw several possible 2-3 move setups, but all of them seemed a bit complicated, so I kept looking. At one point I got so frustrated by my indecisiveness that I also considered doing D' setup to a standard commutator. Eventually I found y r2 setup and went with that. If I didn't hesitate like this and just went with the first option I see, it should be much faster. But I'm hoping that with practice I can get rid of thinking times like that, as I get more used to the different cases.


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## muchacho (Nov 15, 2015)

Congrats! That deserves a beer... or two.


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## h2f (Nov 15, 2015)

Congrats Jan!


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## EvilGnome6 (Nov 16, 2015)

Here's a 3x3 solve in 19.46 seconds. I'm averaging around 25 seconds these days and sub-20 solves are becoming more common. I hope to get a sub-20 average eventually. Cube used was a YuXin 3x3, my current main.

Scramble: U2 R' F2 L2 D2 B2 U2 R' B2 L2 D' L2 R F R' F2 L F' L2


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## Jason Green (Nov 16, 2015)

EvilGnome6 said:


> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fwPGWLFZzKI
> 
> Here's a 3x3 solve in 19.46 seconds. I'm averaging around 25 seconds these days and sub-20 solves are becoming more common. I hope to get a sub-20 average eventually. Cube used was a YuXin 3x3, my current main.
> 
> Scramble: R' L2 F2 D B2 U' B2 L2 D U2 R2 D R D' L' R B2 R2 B' F R


Good job, I think you'll get there!


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## MarcelP (Nov 16, 2015)

EvilGnome6 said:


> Here's a 3x3 solve in 19.46 seconds. I'm averaging around 25 seconds these days and sub-20 solves are becoming more common. I hope to get a sub-20 average eventually. Cube used was a YuXin 3x3, my current main.
> 
> Scramble: U2 R' F2 L2 D2 B2 U2 R' B2 L2 D' L2 R F R' F2 L F' L2


Nice one. You will get there for sure.. 

EDIT: Btw, my Yuxin 3x3 sucked so much I gave it away. I can't believe the current WR stands with this cube. Their 2x2 and 5X5 are out of this world though


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## mafergut (Nov 16, 2015)

EvilGnome6 said:


> Here's a 3x3 solve in 19.46 seconds. I'm averaging around 25 seconds these days and sub-20 solves are becoming more common. I hope to get a sub-20 average eventually. Cube used was a YuXin 3x3, my current main.
> 
> Scramble: U2 R' F2 L2 D2 B2 U2 R' B2 L2 D' L2 R F R' F2 L F' L2



Nice! You just need to practice a bit more and you'll get there! It doesn't have to make your big cube times suffer but the opposite, maybe you'll shave off some seconds from the 3x3 stage on your big cube solves. From watching your solve there are some lookahead specific issues, with clear pauses between F2L pairs and also you could work on OLL/PLL recognition. It took a while for you to recognize that U-perm  Once you get better at this you'll be easy in 16-18 territory.



MarcelP said:


> Nice one. You will get there for sure..
> 
> EDIT: Btw, my Yuxin 3x3 sucked so much I gave it away. I can't believe the current WR stands with this cube. Their 2x2 and 5X5 are out of this world though



Mine is fine but too unstable for my taste. I can perform algs pretty fast on it when everything goes well but it's too unpredictable / unstable and I end up locking up or just messing up the alg completely because an unintended turn.

What I cannot believe is what you say about the 2x2 (the 5x5 is clearly fantastic, just ask Feliks ). All the reviews I've watched say it's garbage.


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## muchacho (Nov 16, 2015)

EvilGnome6 said:


> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fwPGWLFZzKI
> 
> Here's a 3x3 solve in 19.46 seconds. I'm averaging around 25 seconds these days and sub-20 solves are becoming more common. I hope to get a sub-20 average eventually. Cube used was a YuXin 3x3, my current main.
> 
> Scramble: U2 R' F2 L2 D2 B2 U2 R' B2 L2 D' L2 R F R' F2 L F' L2



Seems to me that you were standing, is that right? maybe that's the secret to better times 


_Yesterday my best Ao100 was so close to 30 seconds (30.285) than today I was determined to lower that mark... omg it was harder than expected, I needed 120 solves, I've never done that many solves in one sitting (nowhere remotely close to that, not even in a day), I'm tired now!

Ao100: 29.997_


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## MarcelP (Nov 16, 2015)

mafergut said:


> What I cannot believe is what you say about the 2x2



I ordered the YuPo and Yuxin 2x2 at the same time. After 4 days of comparison I must say, the Yuxin is pretty much perfect and a complete level above all 2X2's that I have (and I have all of them  ). Really fast, really smooth, no lock ups what so ever. The YuPo keeps locking. Minor locking, but locking none the less.



muchacho said:


> I'm tired now!
> Ao100: 29.997



Whoohoo!! I remember my first sub 30 Ao100. I felt like a million bucks.


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## Jason Green (Nov 16, 2015)

muchacho said:


> Ao100: 29.997[/I]



Nice job! I don't do many ao100 either. Maybe I'll try one again soon.


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## EvilGnome6 (Nov 16, 2015)

MarcelP said:


> EDIT: Btw, my Yuxin 3x3 sucked so much I gave it away. I can't believe the current WR stands with this cube. Their 2x2 and 5X5 are out of this world though



The YuXin is one of the few modern cubes that works really well at tighter tensions. It's not perfect but it is slightly better than the SuLong which nothing could replace for the longest time.



mafergut said:


> From watching your solve there are some lookahead specific issues, with clear pauses between F2L pairs and also you could work on OLL/PLL recognition. It took a while for you to recognize that U-perm



My lookahead is definitely poor and I really get lost when there aren't any corners in the top layer. For the longest time I would get impatient, pop one into the top and then go about pairing it up. I'm trying to correct that now.

I can recognize a U-Perm fairly quickly but it takes me a long time to determine if it's clockwise or counter-clockwise. Are there any tricks for that?



muchacho said:


> Seems to me that you were standing, is that right? maybe that's the secret to better times



I was standing. Extended sitting is uncomfortable at the the kitchen counter because there's no place to put my knees. I seem to get worse average when standing but I get some really good singles.


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## mafergut (Nov 16, 2015)

EvilGnome6 said:


> The YuXin is one of the few modern cubes that works really well at tighter tensions. It's not perfect but it is slightly better than the SuLong which nothing could replace for the longest time.
> 
> My lookahead is definitely poor and I really get lost when there aren't any corners in the top layer. For the longest time I would get impatient, pop one into the top and then go about pairing it up. I'm trying to correct that now.
> 
> I can recognize a U-Perm fairly quickly but it takes me a long time to determine if it's clockwise or counter-clockwise. Are there any tricks for that?



Yeah, it looked like it was quite tight. I'm already trying my new Cubicle Premium Meiying. In terms of cube setup it's nothing that I couldn't have done on my own, really, not worth it unless you have little spare time and prefer to pay for it than to do it yourself. I'm still waiting for a Tanglong to arrive in the mail, I have high hopes on that one. The Meying is an improvement over my current main, the Yueying, but I will have to tighten it a bit, Thecubicle set it up way too loose (I even have corner twists on it at this tension).

Recoginizing U-perm direction? I do this: I look at the righthand-side headlights and see if the edge in the middle is opposite colour,then it's clockwise, if it's adjacent, it's counter-clockwise. I also combine two different algs to avoid U2 AUFs, one for bar on front and another one for bar on back so, it's the other way around if your alg is bar on back. I really don't think of the algs as being either clockwise or counter, I just check the headlights and do "the alg that starts with R' or the alg that starts with R2" for the 2gen U-perms / "the alg with Us or the alg with U's" for the M-slice U-perms. Yeah, I'm a bit awkward, I use the 2gen algs for bar in front (which I also need for OH) and when I later learned the algs for bar on back I chose the M-slice algs.


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## JanW (Nov 16, 2015)

EvilGnome6 said:


> I can recognize a U-Perm fairly quickly but it takes me a long time to determine if it's clockwise or counter-clockwise. Are there any tricks for that?


The way you are holding it with full bar on the right, look at front face of upper layer, if they are opposite colors it's counterclockwise, not opposite colors it's clockwise. I usually always solve it with the solved face towards me, so I orient first and choose alg based on right side. Don't even think about clockwise or counterclockwise, but do one alg if I see opposite colors and another if I don't.


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## mafergut (Nov 16, 2015)

JanW said:


> The way you are holding it with full bar on the right, look at front face of upper layer, if they are opposite colors it's counterclockwise, not opposite colors it's clockwise. I usually always solve it with the solved face towards me, so I orient first and choose alg based on right side. Don't even think about clockwise or counterclockwise, but do one alg if I see opposite colors and another if I don't.



We just answered at the same time with exactly the same advice / method


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## JanW (Nov 16, 2015)

mafergut said:


> We just answered at the same time with exactly the same advice / method



Great minds think alike.  I also do the 2gen algs with bar in front and have practiced a bit the M-slice U-perms for bar in back.

Working on an Ao100 first time in a while. New PB single 33.61 just in. Very happy with that one, because it had no skips and my least favorite EP case, the Z perm. No idea why it was so fast.


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## EvilGnome6 (Nov 16, 2015)

mafergut said:


> We just answered at the same time with exactly the same advice / method



Yeah, my U perm algs place the bar in front or in back depending on which way to rotate the edges. I think that hurts me. I don't want to adopt algs with M-Slices because those are death on big cubes. Maybe I'll switch to the OH ones I learned. Sometimes simpler is faster even if it isn't more efficient.


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## EvilGnome6 (Nov 16, 2015)

mafergut said:


> Yeah, it looked like it was quite tight. I'm already trying my new Cubicle Premium Meiying. In terms of cube setup it's nothing that I couldn't have done on my own, really, not worth it unless you have little spare time and prefer to pay for it than to do it yourself. I'm still waiting for a Tanglong to arrive in the mail, I have high hopes on that one. The Meying is an improvement over my current main, the Yueying, but I will have to tighten it a bit, Thecubicle set it up way too loose (I even have corner twists on it at this tension).



I picked up a Cubicle Premium YuXin and had to increase the tension by 1 1/2 turns. Other than that, it was darn near perfect but like you said, nothing you can't do yourself.


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## mafergut (Nov 16, 2015)

EvilGnome6 said:


> Yeah, my U perm algs place the bar in front or in back depending on which way to rotate the edges. I think that hurts me. I don't want to adopt algs with M-Slices because those are death on big cubes. Maybe I'll switch to the OH ones I learned. Sometimes simpler is faster even if it isn't more efficient.



U-perms and maybe A-perms as well are probably the only ones I'd recommend learning to algs for two different orientations a U2 away from each other. There are very nice 2gen algs for either bar in front or in the back if you don't like M-slice algs. I just learned the M-slice ones without even thinking, just watching a video so I just used those but in OH I miss having a second alg to avoid extra rotations / AUFing.

The only other PLLs I've learned a 2nd one is the ones I'm learning for OH, that now I sometimes use for 2H when I get the PLL in the correct orientation like the F-perm that starts with R' U' F' and continues mostly like a T-perm. Others, like the 2gen H-perm, of course are not of much use for 2H but come in handy for big cubes as well. My Z-perm has always been the <R,U> one so I have not had to learn another for OH. I also try to learn the lefty mirrors os some of them, more to exercise my left hand than to really use them in solves as my T-perm is much slower with left hand than right. The only ones I really use lefty are the A-perms, which I use as "secondary" alg.


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## Jason Green (Nov 16, 2015)

I need to work on my U Perm recognition too, I'm going to try that approach!


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## Logiqx (Nov 16, 2015)

EvilGnome6 said:


> Here's a 3x3 solve in 19.46 seconds. I'm averaging around 25 seconds these days and sub-20 solves are becoming more common. I hope to get a sub-20 average eventually.



Nice... thanks for sharing.

That seemed like a fairly typical solve (nothing unusually easy) so you can definitely get down to a sub-20 average and beyond.

Execution was good through the solve (cross, F2L pairs, LL algs) but you can shave a lot of time off by improving recognition and eliminating pauses. Your cross + 1 included a really big pause (~2 sec) so try to spot your first pair whilst executing the cross. Don't look at your cross pieces during execution (or check them afterwards) and this usually allows a pair to be spotted, near-eliminating the pause.

The first three F2L pairs flowed really nicely then you paused to recognise the last F2L case. This was just a glitch in your look ahead and can be improved by through slow turning practice. Case recognition for OLL + PLL will naturally improve with practice.


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## EvilGnome6 (Nov 16, 2015)

Logiqx said:


> Your cross + 1 included a really big pause (~2 sec) so try to spot your first pair whilst executing the cross. Don't look at your cross pieces during execution (or check them afterwards) and this usually allows a pair to be spotted, near-eliminating the pause.



Thanks for the critique. I'm still pretty bad at cross and half the time I can only plan out three edges with good confidence. When I see the full cross solution, I get so excited that I forget to look ahead at the first pair. It's hard to drill in that focus but I'm slowly getting there.


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## Jason Green (Nov 16, 2015)

EvilGnome6 said:


> Thanks for the critique. I'm still pretty bad at cross and half the time I can only plan out three edges with good confidence. When I see the full cross solution, I get so excited that I forget to look ahead at the first pair. It's hard to drill in that focus but I'm slowly getting there.


Same with me on cross. I've just recently started timing my inspection time. Most of the time it's no issue, sometimes I can tell I would have used a lot more with no timer.


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## mafergut (Nov 16, 2015)

MarcelP said:


> I ordered the YuPo and Yuxin 2x2 at the same time. After 4 days of comparison I must say, the Yuxin is pretty much perfect and a complete level above all 2X2's that I have (and I have all of them  ). Really fast, really smooth, no lock ups what so ever. The YuPo keeps locking. Minor locking, but locking none the less.



I already have a LingPo and by what I have watched / read the YuPo is either very similar or a marginal improvement over it with the same internal catching issues that make me mad at times so, definitely a no go. But what you say about the Yuxin 2x2 is a real eye opener. I bought a Dayan to have the best 2x2 and I'm very disappointed up to now. After getting tired of trying to break it in, this weekend I will resticker, lube & tension it and, if it keeps being garbage I will abandon it so, I might want to try yet another 2x2 and that might be the Yuxin. I also have a CB stickerless with is marginally better than the LingPo but for sure not "a complete level above" and also catches a bit.


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## Logiqx (Nov 16, 2015)

EvilGnome6 said:


> Thanks for the critique. I'm still pretty bad at cross and half the time I can only plan out three edges with good confidence. When I see the full cross solution, I get so excited that I forget to look ahead at the first pair. It's hard to drill in that focus but I'm slowly getting there.



Give yourself unlimited inspection time to plan all four cross pieces. It gets easier and faster with practice.

Planning the final adjustment of the D-layer can be done with simple maths... work out what is required prior to executing your cross (e.g. D / D' / D2) and then keep a mental note of how it needs to change for every D turn you do during cross execution. Eventually you'll be able to work out the final D turn(s) during inspection.


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## Rastinha (Nov 16, 2015)

These are all pretty useful tips! I've been trying to learn 3BLD in little snippets of time between work and other things keeping me busy over the last few days, but I need to do a bit of practice of regular 3x3 to work on my F2L. 

I watched Collin Burns' F2L algorithms everyone should know video because I'm pretty sure my problem is doing the cases where the two pieces are right next to each other in a really inefficient way. Does anyone know of any other good 'Improve your F2L' videos?

Also, I was wondering for 3BLD whether you're supposed to time your memo and execution, or just the execution? Like when things say "once you're sub xxx then you can..." do they mean just execution or memo too? And in competitions are both stages timed?


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## muchacho (Nov 16, 2015)

I know nothing about F2L, but I think there were more F2L videos from Collin Burns in Cubing World.

Also Chris Olson:
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLRZHt_6umybxv_9KUEBhI-UwNbONqC6ya


In 3BLD you should time both times (total time, as is done in competitions), but maybe is a good idea to keep track (video tape some of the solves) of the time of each of the parts to see where you can improve more.


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## SpeedCubeReview (Nov 16, 2015)

JanW said:


> Cool to see so many Dream Theater fans around. Used to be a huge fan, had signed posters of John Petrucci and Mike Portnoy above my bed as a teenager.
> 
> Got the Yuxin 5x5 on Friday. I haven't read or watched any tutorials on larger cubes yet, but played around a bit with it yesterday to see how far I can get with 3x3 knowledge and logic. Did several solves from scratch, but every time I ended up with this:
> 
> ...



Do you know how to solve a 4x4? It is the same as the 4x4 OLL parity. 

Since you have two edges like that just put the in front on the left and right. Move both the top and bottom slice to the right and do the edge flipping algorithm (R U R' F R' F' R) and slice back. It will flip one center and the two edges of the other side making both perfect.... Hope that made sense.

Here is my video on parity if you only have one bad edge (https://youtu.be/-8iHPCgWFvk)


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## mark49152 (Nov 16, 2015)

Rastinha said:


> Also, I was wondering for 3BLD whether you're supposed to time your memo and execution, or just the execution? Like when things say "once you're sub xxx then you can..." do they mean just execution or memo too? And in competitions are both stages timed?


As muchacho said, you time both memo and execution. In competition, you start the stackmat timer and then lift the cover from the cube yourself. The judge does not lift the cover, and there is no inspection time. Once you have memorized, you lower your blindfold and solve the cube. Then you put the cube down, stop the timer and lift your blindfold. You can lift your blindfold before stopping the timer, if you are afraid of missing the timer, but you cannot touch the cube again between lifting your blindfold and stopping the timer.

In practice, definitely time both steps to track your progress. You might be surprised how long your memo takes. If your aim is to get fast, you will probably reach the point where it's a lot easier to shave 10 secs off memo than 10 secs off execution. There's no point learning clever tricks to shave 3-4 seconds off execution if your memo is still at 2 minutes. So practise both separately and have separate plans for making improvements on each. 

For execution, sighted solves are a must to get familiar with your method, and that helps get faster. For memo, push yourself by setting a time limit.


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## MarcelP (Nov 17, 2015)

Logiqx said:


> Give yourself unlimited inspection time to plan all four cross pieces. It gets easier and faster with practice.



Practicing blind crosses helped me the most. Also doing timed cross+1 in the early days with Mark in the substep competition really helped me improving.


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## EvilGnome6 (Nov 17, 2015)

MarcelP said:


> Practicing blind crosses helped me the most. Also doing timed cross+1 in the early days with Mark in the substep competition really helped me improving.



Hmmm... I may just switch from doing full solves while watching TV to doing blind crosses. I might be able to actually see more of it.


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## Lid (Nov 17, 2015)

Out of nowhere first 12 OH solves of the day: (I still use my old stickerless LingYun )
(20.210), 24.282, 22.729, 24.527, 24.008, (27.805), 21.243, 25.185, 26.851, 23.811, 20.990, 24.162 = *23.779* --> PB by 0.38



Spoiler: scambles



Average of 12: 23.779
1. (20.210) B2 L D2 F2 D2 F2 R' B2 R B2 L2 F R2 D' R2 B2 D' L2 U L'
2. 24.282 L F2 D2 L U2 B2 R' F2 L' U2 R F U' L' D2 L2 D' F L B2 F'
3. 22.729 D B2 U' B2 F2 D' B2 L2 U2 L2 U2 L B L F2 U' B L D R B
4. 24.527 D' B2 L2 U F2 U' L2 U2 R2 U F2 L F L2 D L2 B' L' R B L
5. 24.008 R2 F' R2 B L2 U2 F' U2 B' D2 B2 D B D U2 F R F D2 R2 B2
6. (27.805) F2 U2 F2 U' B2 R2 D B2 U2 F2 L' R2 F' L' F2 R' B' U2 F2
7. 21.243 B F L2 B' D2 U2 R2 F L2 D2 B U L D F2 R U' L U L
8. 25.185 U2 R2 F2 L2 D' F2 D' F2 U B2 U' R' B' U B2 U' F2 U2 L F U2
9. 26.851 B U2 L2 D2 F' U2 L2 F U2 R2 F' D' R' F' D2 B2 D U L' U
10. 23.811 L2 D R2 D F2 U R2 D B2 U' F' L2 B D' B R' F R2 U'
11. 20.990 L' U2 F D2 R F' D' F2 L U' F2 U2 B U2 B' U2 B R2 F2 U2 F'
12. 24.162 D2 R2 D' B2 U L2 U R2 D2 B2 R' D R' D' B D' F2 L D R'


Had a good big cube session yesterday also: 7x7 single PB, *5:35.36*, that was my second sub6, love my stickerless cubic AoFu.

And yet another a12 PB on the 5x5 (YuXin SL) also: *2:08.58*, one sub2, had a PB a5 in there also: *2.02.65*, my single PB (1:55.45) is still from the Vcube days 

2:05.45, 2:11.88, 2:08.57, 2:18.74, 2:20.55, (1:59.22), 2:01.18, 2:03.67, (2:26.61), 2:03.11, 2:03.38, 2:09.27


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## EvilGnome6 (Nov 17, 2015)

MarcelP said:


> Practicing blind crosses helped me the most.



Here's what I'm trying to practice cross:

Generate scramble 
Scramble with white on bottom 
Inspect 
Close eyes and execute 
If solved, generate new scramble 
If not, reapply scramble and retry sighted

Anything else I should incorporate? What about move count?


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## mark49152 (Nov 17, 2015)

EvilGnome6 said:


> Here's what I'm trying to practice cross:
> 
> Generate scramble
> Scramble with white on bottom
> ...


Time the execution. The aim is to get faster and the pattern of what kind of solution leads to a fast cross is quite revealing. Also I don't have the patience to retry the same scramble, I just move on .


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## Jason Green (Nov 17, 2015)

Here's an average of 12 for me that is decent. Although I was going to try and film a nice clean session and it turned out very messy, tons of DNFs and stuff. I restarted the camera for this. 

Check out at about 5:10, I had back to back 23.59s. Then another 23 later. 

It's funny my last video was a month ago and was 38 average. Just two more months and I should be to 8 second average. ��


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## mark49152 (Nov 17, 2015)

For the first time got 10/10 successes in a 3BLD session. Average was 2:26. I do all my 3BLD in batches of 10 and delete any session with <5 successes so that it doesn't count towards my overall average. Usually I get about 5-7 successes. The last couple of solves were a bit slow once I saw I was on for a full house; until then I was averaging ~2:20.


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## Logiqx (Nov 17, 2015)

Lid said:


> Out of nowhere first 12 OH solves of the day: (I still use my old stickerless LingYun )
> (20.210), 24.282, 22.729, 24.527, 24.008, (27.805), 21.243, 25.185, 26.851, 23.811, 20.990, 24.162 = *23.779* --> PB by 0.38
> 
> Had a good big cube session yesterday also: 7x7 single PB, *5:35.36*, that was my second sub6, love my stickerless cubic AoFu.
> ...



Very nice in all events!



Jason Green said:


> Here's an average of 12 for me that is decent. Although I was going to try and film a nice clean session and it turned out very messy, tons of DNFs and stuff. I restarted the camera for this.
> 
> Check out at about 5:10, I had back to back 23.59s. Then another 23 later.
> 
> ...



Tip for embedding videos... change curly brackets to square brackets:

{video=youtube;9cGpag_Wocg}https://youtu.be/9cGpag_Wocg{/video}

Result...


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## mafergut (Nov 17, 2015)

Jason Green said:


> Here's an average of 12 for me that is decent. Although I was going to try and film a nice clean session and it turned out very messy, tons of DNFs and stuff. I restarted the camera for this.
> 
> Check out at about 5:10, I had back to back 23.59s. Then another 23 later.
> 
> ...



Private video, I cannot watch it. Can you make it public?

By the way, not counting the 1.56 3-mover 2x2 solve I got the other day (because it needs to be a 4-mover to be a legit WCA scramble) today I got a nice 10-move 2.43 single and a 6.00 Ao50 and 6.21 Ao100 with Ortega... with my Zhanchi 2x2. Maybe after all, when lubed and tensioned, it will not be a bad cube. Slowly improving but I don't see how I can get past the 5 second mark with Ortega. Maybe when I reach low 5 average it will be time to learn CLL/EG. Didn't think I'd say this but, I'm starting to enjoy 2x2 a lot.

Here's the single:

625. (2.43) U2 F R' F U2 R U2 R U2

y' R U R' // Face (and layer)
F R U R' U' F' // OLL
U2 // PBL skip + AUF

As most my sub-4 times, it is not really Ortega but LBL. Well, let's say it was "unintended CLL"


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## h2f (Nov 17, 2015)

Lid and Mark - very nice.

I'm gonna try to make a blind session with very fast memo (~30 sec) and see what happens....


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## mark49152 (Nov 17, 2015)

mafergut said:


> As most my sub-4 times, it is not really Ortega but LBL.


Maybe they are skips? Usually I find layers are the slowest solves as the PLLs are longer than other PBLs. In fact if I have choice of easy faces and can see one of them would make a layer, I'll choose the other.


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## mark49152 (Nov 17, 2015)

h2f said:


> I'm gonna try to make a blind session with very fast memo (~30 sec) and see what happens....


Have you tried putting time limit on memo? How rigidly structured is your memo? I'm wondering whether to force myself to do less reviewing...


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## sqAree (Nov 17, 2015)

mafergut, my 2x2 progress is roughly the same as yours (and I also never thought I'd enjoy but now I do ), and the day before yesterday I got a 4.90 ao100 with Ortega, seems possible to be sub5!
I think one cannot start learnign EG too soon. I'll be on it in the next weeks.

And mark, I agree, PBLs > PLLs.


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## mafergut (Nov 17, 2015)

mark49152 said:


> Maybe they are skips? Usually I find layers are the slowest solves as the PLLs are longer than other PBLs. In fact if I have choice of easy faces and can see one of them would make a layer, I'll choose the other.



Correct! Like this one that's now my PB single, they are almost always PLL skips and maybe some OLL skips + T-perm (I still haven't learned a shorter variant for adjacent swap on top / layer on bottom). The ones that are not LBL are either diag swap / diag swap PBL or OLL skip + PBL. I'm not sure but my best "full step" Ortega solve must be a low 4.


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## Jason Green (Nov 17, 2015)

mafergut said:


> Private video, I cannot watch it. Can you make it public?



Thanks, it's fixed now!


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## mafergut (Nov 17, 2015)

sqAree said:


> mafergut, my 2x2 progress is roughly the same as yours (and I also never thought I'd enjoy but now I do ), and the day before yesterday I got a 4.90 ao100 with Ortega, seems possible to be sub5!
> I think one cannot start learnign EG too soon. I'll be on it in the next weeks.
> 
> And mark, I agree, PBLs > PLLs.



Wow! Sub-5 Ao100 with Ortega is really, really nice! Congrats!

In order to learn less algs I assume that CLL algs for 2x2 are not supposed to work as CMLL algs for 3x3 Roux, as they will not necessarily preserve the middle layer edges of F2B, right? I assume the other way around would be true so, are CMLL algs so much worse so that it's worth it to learn new ones for 2x2? I don't know CMLL yet as my main 3x3 method is CFOP but I also like Roux so I was thinking maybe I can just learn one set of algs instead of two.


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## muchacho (Nov 17, 2015)

I'm not sure but I think Alex Lau uses CMLL algs for 2x2 (and he averages 3-4 seconds). I might try that, I'm too lazy to learn CLL for 2x2 (although I like 2x2 very much).


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## muchacho (Nov 17, 2015)

Jason Green said:


> Here's an average of 12 for me that is decent. Although I was going to try and film a nice clean session and it turned out very messy, tons of DNFs and stuff. I restarted the camera for this.
> 
> Check out at about 5:10, I had back to back 23.59s. Then another 23 later.
> 
> ...



Viewing that video a non cuber might think it must be easy to average 28 seconds... if viewing some of my solves instead (and the smoke coming out of my ears) that person would think 28 seconds must be close to the WR


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## LL Cool Skip (Nov 17, 2015)

mafergut said:


> Wow! Sub-5 Ao100 with Ortega is really, really nice! Congrats!
> 
> In order to learn less algs I assume that CLL algs for 2x2 are not supposed to work as CMLL algs for 3x3 Roux, as they will not necessarily preserve the middle layer edges of F2B, right? I assume the other way around would be true so, are CMLL algs so much worse so that it's worth it to learn new ones for 2x2? I don't know CMLL yet as my main 3x3 method is CFOP but I also like Roux so I was thinking maybe I can just learn one set of algs instead of two.



CLL algs are really easy. Many of them are OLL algs you already know. Many of them also translate into COLL very well, or some sort of OLLCP. I think it's really helpful to at least know how the recognition works for these cases. It can help a lot in predicting PLL on 3x3.


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## Chree (Nov 17, 2015)

LL Cool Skip said:


> CLL algs are really easy. Many of them are OLL algs you already know. Many of them also translate into COLL very well, or some sort of OLLCP. I think it's really helpful to at least know how the recognition works for these cases. It can help a lot in predicting PLL on 3x3.



Seconded. I use CP recognition for Ortega to predict PBL, as well. So it has lots of uses.


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## JanW (Nov 17, 2015)

Jason Green said:


> Here's an average of 12 for me that is decent. Although I was going to try and film a nice clean session and it turned out very messy, tons of DNFs and stuff. I restarted the camera for this.
> 
> Check out at about 5:10, I had back to back 23.59s. Then another 23 later.
> 
> ...


Very nice, can't believe how calm it looks. Seems so easy...

Finally finished the Ao100 I started yesterday. The last 33.61 PB single was shattered only three solves later: 28.83. First (and so far only) sub 30! Sune and EP skip. Also had my first sub 40 Ao12 (39.96) and by far best Ao100 so far: 43.07.

I switched to my stickerless for the last 30 or so solves and average times went down with 1-2 seconds. I feel my regular Zhanchi might be a bit too fast and wobbly for me, get some lockups when I can't control it properly. The stickerless is tighter and slower. Can't wait to get the 7 different cubes that are in the mail, hopefully I will find something there that suits my current solving skills better. The order included some slower and intermediate cubes, as well as also a TangLong.


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## muchacho (Nov 17, 2015)

muchacho said:


> I'm not sure but I think Alex Lau uses CMLL algs for 2x2 (and he averages 3-4 seconds). I might try that, I'm too lazy to learn CLL for 2x2 (although I like 2x2 very much).


Ouch, I've tried (for the first time) with the CMLLs I know and recognition/execution on a 2x2 (hopefully just for now) is a pain in the arse.


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## mafergut (Nov 17, 2015)

Jason Green said:


> Thanks, it's fixed now!



Nice improvement this last month Jason! Nice to see you insert F2L pairs in the back with such confidence in the first 23.59 (for sure in other solves as well, I just spotted you doing it during that solve). You don't even look like your trying really hard as muchacho points out. Not sure about 8 seconds  but I'm sure you will be close to 20 in no time at this pace.



LL Cool Skip said:


> CLL algs are really easy. Many of them are OLL algs you already know. Many of them also translate into COLL very well, or some sort of OLLCP. I think it's really helpful to at least know how the recognition works for these cases. It can help a lot in predicting PLL on 3x3.





muchacho said:


> I'm not sure but I think Alex Lau uses CMLL algs for 2x2 (and he averages 3-4 seconds). I might try that, I'm too lazy to learn CLL for 2x2 (although I like 2x2 very much).





Chree said:


> Seconded. I use CP recognition for Ortega to predict PBL, as well. So it has lots of uses.



Thank you all for your feedback. I will try to take a look at CLL if it has so many benefits. Also, how many can also be used as COLL? Because learning those was also on my todo list (for OH 3x3 so that I can avoid all those ugly non-2gen PLLs and just stick to EPLL). To be honest, I have too many things on my todo list, I will have to prioritize. Would you recommend to learn them in order of more things preserved to less things preserved? Or the other way around? Because I'm afraid if I start learning COLL then I will be too lazy to learn specific CLL and CMLL and will just use COLL algs for Roux and 2x2 instead 

A different thing would be to do that on purpose, like, e.g., you finish F2B and happen to have already EO done, then you could use COLL instead of CMLL to preserve EO. Not sure if any Roux solver does that.


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## EvilGnome6 (Nov 17, 2015)

muchacho said:


> 2x2 is a pain in the arse.



Yes. Yes it is.


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## LL Cool Skip (Nov 17, 2015)

I occasionally do Roux practice because it's a very fun method. My CMLL algs are all just my favorite OLLCP algs I know for those cases. Many of the CLL algs for 2x2 don't work as COLL but with minor modifications they do. For instance, this is my CLL alg: R' U R U2' R2' F R F' R, and my COLL for the same case: R' U R U2 R' L' U R U' L. I recommend learning COLL.


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## Jason Green (Nov 17, 2015)

Logiqx said:


> Tip for embedding videos... change curly brackets to square brackets:



Thanks for the tip, I usually post from the Tapatalk app and it shows them as videos anyway. I'm having a little trouble getting it to work, I even tried using the video icon from the desktop website...

Edit - got it working. I overlooked your ";" in the video string and copy/pasted my own. Strange the little video icon on the website figured out how to pull it in once I pasted in the long URL version. Is there a simple way to do that from Tapatalk or do you have to manually edit the video link?



muchacho said:


> Viewing that video a non cuber might think it must be easy to average 28 seconds...





JanW said:


> Very nice, can't believe how calm it looks. Seems so easy...
> 
> Finally finished the Ao100 I started yesterday. The last 33.61 PB single was shattered only three solves later: 28.83. First (and so far only) sub 30!



Well I guess I look calm while cubing, I'll take it as a compliment. Although I'm probably one to look like that even if I'm not.

Good job Jan, you're not far behind me! 



mafergut said:


> Nice improvement this last month Jason! Nice to see you insert F2L pairs in the back with such confidence in the first 23.59 (for sure in other solves as well, I just spotted you doing it during that solve). You don't even look like your trying really hard as muchacho points out. Not sure about 8 seconds  but I'm sure you will be close to 20 in no time at this pace.



Thanks, I need to study my own videos a little more and watch for those things. All I notice is lots of pauses still! Yeah the progress definitely slows down, it was fun getting new PBs every day or two when I was slower, but it's also fun to be improved. Seemed like once I got under 40 it was like will I ever get under 35 (probably took a couple more weeks), and then same for 30. I did feel like I took a little "jump" from about 31 - 28/29. It reminds me of what Lars Petrus says about improving in "quantum leaps". http://lar5.com/cube/menthol.html


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## h2f (Nov 17, 2015)

mafergut said:


> By the way, not counting the 1.56 3-mover 2x2 solve I got the other day (because it needs to be a 4-mover to be a legit WCA scramble) today I got a nice 10-move 2.43 single and a 6.00 Ao50 and 6.21 Ao100 with Ortega... with my Zhanchi 2x2. Maybe after all, when lubed and tensioned, it will not be a bad cube. Slowly improving but I don't see how I can get past the 5 second mark with Ortega. Maybe when I reach low 5 average it will be time to learn CLL/EG. Didn't think I'd say this but, I'm starting to enjoy 2x2 a lot.



Nice. My ao100 with Ortega is sub-8 and your times are very impressive too me. 



mark49152 said:


> Have you tried putting time limit on memo? How rigidly structured is your memo? I'm wondering whether to force myself to do less reviewing...



Well, I've thought it's time to try this again. Earlier I did it to get 1 minute memo. My memo is not rigid. When I'm relaxed I can do it sub30. But when I'm not and I get hard scramble it can be 1:30. Usually it takes around 40 seconds. When I practice and I do dnf I redo solve on half solved cube to practice shorter memo. And after all it is quite funny. Today I got 50 seconds solve with 8 edges and 5 corners (2x3-cycle). I thought it's time to review less. Usually I do 2 reviews of edges or just repeat it loudly to myself but often I do more. I think it's up of your solving time - when you solve corners (I solve corners first) in around 30 seconds or you must remeber edges longer if execution of corners takes 15 seconds. So you need to repeat it and review. But when it's shorter it's time to review less or not review...


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## Chree (Nov 17, 2015)

Jason Green said:


> I did feel like I took a little "jump" from about 31 - 28/29. It reminds me of what Lars Petrus says about improving in "quantum leaps". http://lar5.com/cube/menthol.html




My favorite line from this page was always the opener, and it was a personal motto for years: "Being able to solve Rubik's cube very fast is a near useless skill, that takes a lot of time to acquire, and does not typically impress the opposite sex. If you think you have better things to do, I can only agree. You probably have." - Lars Petrus


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## Jason Green (Nov 18, 2015)

Chree said:


> My favorite line from this page was always the opener, and it was a personal motto for years: "Being able to solve Rubik's cube very fast is a near useless skill, that takes a lot of time to acquire, and does not typically impress the opposite sex. If you think you have better things to do, I can only agree. You probably have." - Lars Petrus



Yes, Lars was cubing when cubing wasn't cool.  That just came to mind, is it cool yet? I think it's cool...


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## Logiqx (Nov 18, 2015)

Jason Green said:


> Yes, Lars was cubing when cubing wasn't cool.  That just came to mind, is it cool yet? I think it's cool...



There is a fine line between cool and uncool. I think we're just about on the right side of it.


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## Berd (Nov 18, 2015)

mafergut said:


> Nice improvement this last month Jason! Nice to see you insert F2L pairs in the back with such confidence in the first 23.59 (for sure in other solves as well, I just spotted you doing it during that solve). You don't even look like your trying really hard as muchacho points out. Not sure about 8 seconds  but I'm sure you will be close to 20 in no time at this pace.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Bumping and old topic here but it's quite important to stress, most COLLs are awful compared to there CLL equivalent. For instance the double sune case (double headlights) can be solved 2 gen in 5 moves on 2x2. However saying that, F (R U R' U')*3 F' is still aguably the best alg for its case. 

I'm learning CLL at the moment but I already know COLL, the learning process is taking longer but it's so worth it. If you want to get even sub 5 at 2x2 then (aside from the John method) learning CLLs will be a good idea. 

Hope this helps!


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## MarcelP (Nov 18, 2015)

Jason Green said:


> Yes, Lars was cubing when cubing wasn't cool.  That just came to mind, is it cool yet? I think it's cool...



It still does not get you into any pants


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## MarcelP (Nov 18, 2015)

I got a single PB in 2X2 in weekly competition 

00:03.23 U R F U R' U2 R

y// inspection
R U' R2 // Bottom
R U R' U' L' U R U' // Top


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## EvilGnome6 (Nov 18, 2015)

MarcelP said:


> I got a single PB in 2X2 in weekly competition
> 
> 00:03.23 U R F U R' U2 R
> 
> ...



Nice. That was the solution I came up with, too but I got a 5.39 because it took 2 seconds to identify the case. 

I wish I could predict the OLL and cancel the R2 R into an R'.


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## muchacho (Nov 18, 2015)

Congrats!

I've got a 6.57 with that scramble, my fault, I just did the yellow face (and I had a skip too, but I'm slow) 

Do you feel that R U R' U' L' U R U' is faster than R U R' U' R' F R F' ?


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## MarcelP (Nov 18, 2015)

muchacho said:


> Congrats!
> 
> 
> Do you feel that R U R' U' L' U R U' is faster than R U R' U' R' F R F' ?



I use the one I use on 3X3 OLL too


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## Jason Green (Nov 18, 2015)

MarcelP said:


> It still does not get you into any pants


Haha my wife does not have much interest in cubes, but one night when I was explaining it to our neighbors and getting pretty excited she said she thought it was turning her on. So who knows.


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## mafergut (Nov 18, 2015)

EvilGnome6 said:


> Nice. That was the solution I came up with, too but I got a 5.39 because it took 2 seconds to identify the case.
> 
> I wish I could predict the OLL and cancel the R2 R into an R'.



What thread are those weekly competitions that you always talk about? I would like to join!

Whenever I have a face easy enough to predict the OLL and realize that I can cancel the last move of the face into OLL I end up messing the solve because my muscle memory wants to perform the whole OLL and not just start on move 2 of it. But the very few times I manage to do it successfully it's a very rewarding experience! 

Also regarding efficiency. Do you learn / perform OLLs in 2x2 in different orientations to avoid AUFing? I can do the F sexy / double-sexy F' ones and the sexy-sledge one with left hand and I'm trying to get confortable with sune/anti-sune from the back but most of the time I end up being slower than with U2 + OLL. I also use two different OLLs for the case with two oriented corners diagonally opposed (they are two common 3x3 OLLs). Any recommendations here?


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## Chree (Nov 18, 2015)

MarcelP said:


> It still does not get you into any pants



Really? Cubing might have played a key role in securing my first marriage! Then again, she was a nerd.


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## MarcelP (Nov 18, 2015)

mafergut said:


> What thread are those weekly competitions that you always talk about? I would like to join!



https://www.speedsolving.com/forum/showthread.php?55897-Weekly-Competition-2015-47 Just compete in the events you like. Write down your times, and next week the results will be up.


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## Jason Green (Nov 18, 2015)

mafergut said:


> What thread are those weekly competitions that you always talk about? I would like to join!



Here's the one I am doing now, and muchacho. Good job on sub 30 BTW muchacho!

https://www.speedsolving.com/forum/showthread.php?t=43738


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## muchacho (Nov 18, 2015)

Thanks!

I'm also in the Race to sub X on a 2x2... by the way, I've been practicing CMLL on a 2x2 like 30 minutes or so, and it's not that bad now, some algs feel weird but with little practice I think I will be faster than doing oll+pbl when I see I'll get a layer (by luck, I'm not going to try to build layers), for the rest I'll use Ortega until I (maybe) learn EG1/EG2.


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## RicardoRix (Nov 18, 2015)

I've created a small program to help practice BLD memo of letter pairs. It's just a windows exe file, and pretty rough and ready. In the download, I've included my letter pair 'input file' but this has a few references to people that only I know, it's just there to help you see how it could work before you actually make the decision to create a full list.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B6Fw_W6x0e8bZHBqeThvWGhGamM

To get going select the input file (path to file) by clicking the button with the 3 dots, then click the start button.
The way it works, is that you are expected to come up with the word in your head and then you can click 'I Know It'.
Note: this could equally work with a empty file list, just click 'Create empty file list' and use that as the input file.


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## h2f (Nov 18, 2015)

For weekly competition you can also go here: https://www.speedsolving.com/competitions/index.php

I've joined to the race to sub-30 in OH and did first ao12 sub-40: 39.43. Yay 



Spoiler



avg of 12: 39.43

Time List:
(33.00), 37.56, 41.14, 37.48, 35.64, 39.47, 42.51, 39.13, 42.10, (43.78), 38.15, 41.18


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## SenorJuan (Nov 18, 2015)

As I mentioned before, I now have a Weisu 4x4x4. First off, I took it apart and mildly fettled with it to get it bedded in quicker. The I brushed up on my beginners reduction skills (one dedge at a time), which came back quite easily considering I haven't solved one since the 1990's. A change of technique to E-layer, rather than M-layer as the 'working layer' helped a bit, and after about 50 solves, I did a 2:23 solve, which nicely beats my 2:43 best from the '90's. Woot woot! So now onwards to more advanced methods. I'm starting off simple, Hardwick's "2 dedges at a time" seems a reasonable step, I'll look at the 'top' methods later. I have to admit it hurt my poor head at first, I'm sure Chris knew what he meant, but I was perplexed. Having a different colour scheme didn't help follow the example (it took me 3 attempts to correctly perform his example scramble!). But eventually it clicked. After doing a decent number of slow solves, I've got it mostly sussed, and was most amazed to find I could sometimes solve all the dedges in under 30 moves. It was more like 80 with the basic method. I can see how a 40 second reduction stage is possible, like Chris H says.
Needless to say I'm slug slow at it at the moment. TPS = 0.3. "Insane TPS !" I guess I should target the 1:30 competition cut-off time as a goal.

It's more fun than I thought it would be, largely due to the reasonable turning action of the Weisu. Goodbye, old Revenge.
I'm going to get some different stickers for it, though, fluoro orange, especially.


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## newtonbase (Nov 18, 2015)

Low 2 mins already. Well done. 

I'm slowly adding some comms to my advanced M2 and was wondering if anyone had alg lists they could share? The ones I'm really interested are those on the M slice. I'm happy with AC and CA but I'd like any others that are available. I know I should be able to work them out but I'm struggling. Thanks in advance.


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## Rastinha (Nov 18, 2015)

I have managed to solve my 2x2 blind so far, haha. Just practicing corners. I have been watching Noah's videos, but there's one thing I'm having trouble with. So, is it right that you just need a memo letter for each PIECE rather than sticker? So the most you should end up with for corners is 8 letters or 4 pairs? I'm having some trouble figuring out when to stop. If you have 2 corners (or edges) and it just keeps going back and forth between them, do you just do only one letter for each piece? Like at the end of this one in Noah's video, when you do QOA, how do you know not to include V on the end, or not to leave A off the end? Because once you do QO you've touched all of the pieces, but you go back one more time for A, but not again for V.

Sorry if that's a dumb question or confusing! Hopefully someone can help!

Also, cubing impresses some of us! It doesn't impress my partner though, but he's not much of a geek 

Edit: This video


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## RicardoRix (Nov 18, 2015)

Rastinha said:


> I have managed to solve my 2x2 blind so far, haha. Just practicing corners. I have been watching Noah's videos, but there's one thing I'm having trouble with. So, is it right that you just need a memo letter for each PIECE rather than sticker? So the most you should end up with for corners is 8 letters or 4 pairs?



For the letter scheme there is a letter per sticker, so 3 for a corner piece, 2 for an edge.
https://www.speedsolving.com/wiki/index.php/Speffz

Yes, you only need to memo for each piece, not sticker, but it could be any of the 3 stickers for a given piece.
If you have no new cycles, then there will be 7 letters to memo. 8 is fairly normal with just 1 new cycle.
So to know when to stop, you can place a finger on the piece once you have placed that into your memo. BEWARE though, when you start a new cycle, you DON'T add that piece. And you have to start a new cycle if you reach the buffer piece or if you reach a piece you have already memo'd. When you have a finger on all 7 corners, you're done. 

Here is a tool you can use to double-check: http://di-mare.com/scrambld/


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## JanW (Nov 18, 2015)

Rastinha said:


> I have managed to solve my 2x2 blind so far, haha. Just practicing corners. I have been watching Noah's videos, but there's one thing I'm having trouble with. So, is it right that you just need a memo letter for each PIECE rather than sticker? So the most you should end up with for corners is 8 letters or 4 pairs? I'm having some trouble figuring out when to stop. If you have 2 corners (or edges) and it just keeps going back and forth between them, do you just do only one letter for each piece? Like at the end of this one in Noah's video, when you do QOA, how do you know not to include V on the end, or not to leave A off the end? Because once you do QO you've touched all of the pieces, but you go back one more time for A, but not again for V.


Usually you only hit each piece once, but when you break into a new cycle you will hit that piece again. You break into a new cycle if you hit the buffer piece before all other pieces are solved. In that case the buffer piece is brought to the buffer location and you have to temporarily put it away somewhere else, in any unsolved location, where it will remain until the piece that is supposed to end up in that location reclaims the spot.

What happens in that video is that with 'I' he hits the buffer piece, so after solving 'I' the buffer piece is in the buffer location where it should eventually end up. Then he has to put it away somewhere to continue, so he shoots it to an unsolved piece, Q, and picks up the piece from there to continue. Eventually he finds the piece that is supposed to end up where the buffer piece now is and shoots it to A. This brings the buffer back to the correct location.

Not sure if this explanation made any sense, hard to explain... The best thing you can do is to do that solve sighted, take note of the buffer piece when you get there, how it is put away and eventually brought back.


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## h2f (Nov 19, 2015)

newtonbase said:


> Low 2 mins already. Well done.
> 
> I'm slowly adding some comms to my advanced M2 and was wondering if anyone had alg lists they could share? The ones I'm really interested are those on the M slice. I'm happy with AC and CA but I'd like any others that are available. I know I should be able to work them out but I'm struggling. Thanks in advance.



Meneghetii - Brazilian NR holder uses 3cycle with DF: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...mYleiLUnWuUUIWf4aTPQkj0bg/edit#gid=1308739601

His algs are really fine. I took few corners from him.


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## newtonbase (Nov 19, 2015)

h2f said:


> Meneghetii - Brazilian NR holder uses 3cycle with DF: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...mYleiLUnWuUUIWf4aTPQkj0bg/edit#gid=1308739601
> 
> His algs are really fine. I took few corners from him.



I was looking at this list when I posted but was having difficulties with an alg. I thought I didn't understand the notation but it turns out his x' was my x. 

I'm such a long way off learning corner comms. I think I need a good YouTube video.


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## h2f (Nov 19, 2015)

newtonbase said:


> I was looking at this list when I posted but was having difficulties with an alg. I thought I didn't understand the notation but it turns out his x' was my x.
> 
> I'm such a long way off learning corner comms. I think I need a good YouTube video.



I think his notation is correct - I had no problem with doing his algs and find no mistake. If you want yt tutorial, I've learnt from this:https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLF2ahQ91omyTosrOeYYsJJcQzhJD6rr9Z

And I had few lists, like Noah's or Meneghetti. But I started from doing my own. After few weeks I've checked all algs, to find better ones. At the moment the list is complete. I can share it, but I'm not using speffz.


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## mark49152 (Nov 19, 2015)

newtonbase said:


> I'm such a long way off learning corner comms. I think I need a good YouTube video.


I'm trying to figure them out for myself, sighted, like JanW did. It's hard. I really need a clear set of patterns or rules to follow, but I haven't found anything that sticks well enough that I can do it quickly without a long pause to think about it. I guess it will take time!


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## mafergut (Nov 19, 2015)

MarcelP said:


> Just compete in the events you like. Write down your times, and next week the results will be up.





Jason Green said:


> Here's the one I am doing now, and muchacho. Good job on sub 30 BTW muchacho!



Thank you both for the tips. I had never been to the Competition Forum. Now I have a problem... I'll want to compete all the time 

Just did a fast try at 2x2 on the weekly comp but don't worry Marcel, I did not cheat with the 4th solve. I did it on yellow face on purpose to avoid that... and also had a terrible lockup in my CB 2x2 on that very solve, making it in fact the worst of my average.

My results

Not bad taking into account that I was nervous as if it was a real competition 
I assume that for this comps, even if you don't have a proper timer you need to do a pick-up and throw of the cube, right?

Next week I'll try to do more events or maybe I can edit my post with additional events later this weekend. I will also try to enter the Race to sub-20 thread. I'm sure it will prove quite challenging.


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## h2f (Nov 19, 2015)

mafergut said:


> Thank you both for the tips. I had never been to the Competition Forum. Now I have a problem... I'll want to compete all the time
> 
> Just did a fast try at 2x2 on the weekly comp but don't worry Marcel, I did not cheat with the 4th solve. I did it on yellow face on purpose to avoid that... and also had a terrible lockup in my CB 2x2 on that very solve, making it in fact the worst of my average.
> 
> ...



Change format of your results for the same as Marcel. Mats will have an easier job to do when he counts the results.

BTW nice ao5 in 2x2. I'll try to make few solves today or tomorrow, but I'll have a comp this weekend, and most of my solves I do in Saturday and Sunday.


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## mafergut (Nov 19, 2015)

h2f said:


> Change format of your results for the same as Marcel. Mats will have an easier job to do when he counts the results.
> 
> BTW nice ao5 in 2x2. I'll try to make few solves today or tomorrow, but I'll have a comp this weekend, and most of my solves I do in Saturday and Sunday.



Done. Thanks, it could have been so much better but cold hands (no warm-up), a couple of lock-ups and my lack of practise with picking up the cube didn't help much.


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## JanW (Nov 19, 2015)

mark49152 said:


> I'm trying to figure them out for myself, sighted, like JanW did. It's hard. I really need a clear set of patterns or rules to follow, but I haven't found anything that sticks well enough that I can do it quickly without a long pause to think about it. I guess it will take time!


I'm not exactly fast either, still pause to figure them out. Recognition and execution is currently at about 10-15s/3-cycle (not including the few seconds it takes for me to recall which stickers the letters in my memo refer to), sometimes slower if a really tricky case comes up or if I try to look for better options before executing. But for me it doesn't matter as much as I doubt I would be much faster at this point with any other system. Just hoping that I can improve my execution speed with comms at about the same pace I would improve it with OP. As you are already so fast, it will without doubt take some time to get comms up to the same speed.

It helped a lot when I got used to the R2 U R2 U' R2 alg in all it's 8 variants, to be able to perform it quickly for insertions at any corner, both up and down. Also helps to think through all possible insertions and decide which version will be done for each case. Some directions might for example be faster to sledgehammer than to do the regular 3 move way. This is not automatic for me either yet, but I'm hoping to eventually get to the point where I can focus my thinking entirely on how to set up the 3-cycle, without having to think about how to execute insertions.


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## Lid (Nov 19, 2015)

Lot's of bld & 2x2 talk here ... I should really repeat my CLLs & do some avg of 100 

New 3x3 a12 PB today: *16.123* = 15.902, (13.688), (17.603), 15.301, 16.123, 16.206, 16.219, 16.642, 14.733, 17.091, 17.294, 15.714

2 weeks untill competition ...


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## LL Cool Skip (Nov 19, 2015)

I've been doing mainly OH and 2x2 practice in preparation for my competition this weekend. I've been hoping I will get a sub-5 avg on 2x2.

New 2x2 Ao12 pb today: *3.895* = (5.233), 3.633, 4.484, 4.683, 3.900, 4.483, 4.250, 3.435, 3.200, 3.683, 3.200, (2.834)

I got a 4.05 Ao12 two days ago also. These are crazy stupid and were both done without stackmat. Starting to think I should only count 2x2 pbs if stackmat.


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## newtonbase (Nov 20, 2015)

Managed to squeeze in an AO12 this evening and my cross practice is paying off (sort of). First time I've had 2 sub 30s which included a 23.54 PB single. Unfortunately there were still far too many mistakes including solving a fast cross but with the cube upside down so white edges were around the yellow centre. Messed up a couple of PLLs too but I can see the progress.

Got a nice quick, but untimed, 3BLD solve at first attempt too using a couple of edge comms Mark showed me. They are becoming more natural now.


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## muchacho (Nov 20, 2015)

First sub-20 single, it was a very nice scramble 

19.511 R2 B2 D' F2 D' L2 D2 L2 U2 F2 D2 B U2 B D' R U2 F' R D' R2


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## mafergut (Nov 20, 2015)

muchacho said:


> First sub-20 single, it was a very nice scramble
> 
> 19.511 R2 B2 D' F2 D' L2 D2 L2 U2 F2 D2 B U2 B D' R U2 F' R D' R2



Congratulations!!!!


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## h2f (Nov 20, 2015)

muchacho said:


> First sub-20 single, it was a very nice scramble
> 
> 19.511 R2 B2 D' F2 D' L2 D2 L2 U2 F2 D2 B U2 B D' R U2 F' R D' R2



Nice. Me - 17.54 with unplanned xcross and Gb perm.


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## muchacho (Nov 20, 2015)

Thanks!

Reconstruction

R2 B2 D' F2 D' L2 D2 L2 U2 F2 D2 B U2 B D' R U2 F' R D' R2 

y'
F' U' M U M' U2 L U' L' (9) // FB
U2 R U R M U M' U2 L' B' L R U R' U2 M U2 R U' R' (20) // SB
U2 F RU R' U' R U R' U' F' (11) // CMLL
U' M' U' M U' M U' M' U M' U' M U2 M U' M2 U' M2 U2 M' U2 M2 U2 M' (24)

64 STM

alg.cubing.net

I'm not sure if the last part is what I executed, I can't recall but it certainly felt shorter than that.

64 moves for an easy scramble is not very efficient.


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## JanW (Nov 20, 2015)

muchacho said:


> First sub-20 single, it was a very nice scramble
> 
> 19.511 R2 B2 D' F2 D' L2 D2 L2 U2 F2 D2 B U2 B D' R U2 F' R D' R2


Congrats! Nice 6-move Xcross!

I tried practicing that scramble a few times, executing the rest after the Xcross in the order I recognized everything the first time. Sad news is that I only barely got sub-25 for my 47 move solution, even when I knew what was to come. Still have some way to go...


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## JanW (Nov 20, 2015)

h2f said:


> Nice. Me - 17.54 with unplanned xcross and Gb perm.


Hah, I thought I was so smart to see the 6-move Xcross, but turns out it's easy to do the same Xcross in 5 moves by mistake if you don't plan for it...


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## muchacho (Nov 20, 2015)

So, is it also a good scramble for other methods apart from Roux?

Can you share the 5 or 6 moves Xcross?


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## JanW (Nov 20, 2015)

muchacho said:


> So, is it also a good scramble for other methods apart from Roux?
> 
> Can you share the 5 or 6 moves Xcross?



inspection x2 y

The way I did it: B' R D2 F R' L2

The way I'm guessing h2f did it by mistake: R D2 L2 F R'


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## h2f (Nov 20, 2015)

JanW said:


> inspection x2 y
> 
> The way I did it: B' R D2 F R' L2
> 
> The way I'm guessing h2f did it by mistake: R D2 L2 F R'



Yes, it was so.


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## h2f (Nov 20, 2015)

Double.


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## APdRF (Nov 20, 2015)

JanW said:


> inspection x2 y
> 
> The way I did it: B' R D2 F R' L2



Following your start:

U R' L U2 R L' // F2L 2
U' y R U' R' // F2L 3
U' L' U L U L' U L U' F R U R' F' // F2L 4 + OLL
R' U R' U' R' U' R' U R U R2 U2 // PLL + AUF

I've been reading this thread for weeks, it's so inspirational


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## mafergut (Nov 20, 2015)

APdRF said:


> Following your start:
> 
> U R' L U2 R L' // F2L 2
> U' y R U' R' // F2L 3
> ...



Wow! That last F2L pair + OLL!!! How did that happen?  Is it some sort of VLS alg or what!!!!?


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## Logiqx (Nov 20, 2015)

mafergut said:


> Wow! That last F2L pair + OLL!!! How did that happen?  Is it some sort of VLS alg or what!!!!?



The LU moves are a standard setup for insertion. The final FRU moves are a VHLS algorithm.

I don't know whether he was just trying to orient edges and got lucky or knew it was a VLS case and would also orient the corners.


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## APdRF (Nov 20, 2015)

Logiqx said:


> The LU moves are a standard setup for insertion. The final FRU moves are a VHLS algorithm.
> 
> I don't know whether he was just trying to orient edges and got lucky or knew it was a VLS case and would also orient the corners.



I was trying to orient edges but I knew I would skip corners from experience


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## MarcelP (Nov 20, 2015)

mafergut said:


> Thank you both for the tips. I had never been to the Competition Forum. Now I have a problem... I'll want to compete all the time
> 
> 
> My results



Cool! Where are the 3X3 results  I had a bad week... sup 20 does not occur very often any more..


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## EvilGnome6 (Nov 20, 2015)

I've been chasing it for months and finally got my first sub 4 on 6x6 yesterday.


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## mafergut (Nov 20, 2015)

Logiqx said:


> The LU moves are a standard setup for insertion. The final FRU moves are a VHLS algorithm.
> 
> I don't know whether he was just trying to orient edges and got lucky or knew it was a VLS case and would also orient the corners.



Yeah, the first part of the pair I more or less knew. It is a nice way to setup the pair without having to rotate in this case. Ciotheking has some nice algs similar to these in his alg of the week series that I have watched but not memorized  It was the last part what I was a bit shocked with.



APdRF said:


> I was trying to orient edges but I knew I would skip corners from experience



Hi man! Nice to see you again around here. This thread is really nice indeed. And yep, I guess experience counts for a lot in those cases. I guess I need to keep cubing for 2 more years... or 4... or 10...  Do you recommend studying some easy cases for EO during last slot?



MarcelP said:


> Cool! Where are the 3X3 results  I had a bad week... sup 20 does not occur very often any more..



I'm waiting until this weekend to be able to do 3x3, OH and maybe 4x4 and I'll add them to my 2x2 post.
But yesterday night I did my first try at Racing to sub-20, which I just posted a minute ago here.

Yeah, anyone can have a bad day / week, that's what long averages are for  I'm really beginning to feel that I'm globally sub-20, as I have a running session of over 500 solves at 19.7x average right now (excluding warmup solves).



EvilGnome6 said:


> I've been chasing it for months and finally got my first sub 4 on 6x6 yesterday.



Congrats man! You're really my big-cube, old-cuber super-hero. I'm trying to beat sub-2 again at 4x4 and it's tougher than I thought. Problem is that I got a bit into Mega lately and that takes time from my big cube training as it is also a very big "cube" for me (around 7 minutes right now). I just got a new SS Mega and it's sooo smooth... a pity it does not reverse-corner cut at all  I'll maybe have to mod it.


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## h2f (Nov 20, 2015)

EvilGnome6 said:


> I've been chasing it for months and finally got my first sub 4 on 6x6 yesterday.
> 
> http://azcubing.com/Screenshot_20151119-121525.jpg



Wow! Nice.

I'm going to the comp: http://cubecomps.com/live.php?cid=1223. Wish me luck. I can be hard in 3bld, in last few days I had a lot of dnfs and got worse times.


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## Logiqx (Nov 20, 2015)

mafergut said:


> Yeah, the first part of the pair I more or less knew. It is a nice way to setup the pair without having to rotate in this case. Ciotheking has some nice algs similar to these in his alg of the week series that I have watched but not memorized  It was the last part what I was a bit shocked with.



I used to make use of this VHLS alg before I knew full OLL but it's fallen by the wayside over time.

I've noticed Faz use it in quite a few solves, presumably to increase the chances of a nice LL. Maybe he only uses it when he knows the result is likely to be a ZBLL group/case that he knows?


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## MarcelP (Nov 20, 2015)

h2f said:


> Wow! Nice.
> 
> I'm going to the comp: http://cubecomps.com/live.php?cid=1223. Wish me luck. I can be hard in 3bld, in last few days I had a lot of dnfs and got worse times.



Go get them! Break a leg


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## Jason Green (Nov 20, 2015)

muchacho said:


> First sub-20 single, it was a very nice scramble
> 
> 19.511R2 B2 D' F2 D' L2 D2 L2 U2 F2 D2 B U2 B D' R U2 F' R D' R2


Awesome, very fun feeling! Let's get some more!


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## JanW (Nov 20, 2015)

New fullstep PB, 31.78.

F2 U2 B2 U' R' B' D2 L F' L2 F U2 L D' R U2 B D L' D' R' F2 R2 U B2

Inspection x2, saw F2L pair in U layer and decided to preserve. Cross D B U2 R' F2 D', which conveniently happened to put another pair in the U layer as well.


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## APdRF (Nov 20, 2015)

mafergut said:


> Hi man! Nice to see you again around here. This thread is really nice indeed. And yep, I guess experience counts for a lot in those cases. I guess I need to keep cubing for 2 more years... or 4... or 10...  Do you recommend studying some easy cases for EO during last slot?



Hi!  I recommend easy cases in general, they always help you a bit in some solves hahaha. I always orient edges when this case or the R' F R F' happens 

And everyone needs to keep cubing for a looong time


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## Lid (Nov 20, 2015)

EvilGnome6 said:


> I've been chasing it for months and finally got my first sub 4 on 6x6 yesterday.
> 
> http://azcubing.com/Screenshot_20151119-121525.jpg


Very nice, wish I had a better 6x6 than my half crappy SS.


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## Jason Green (Nov 20, 2015)

EvilGnome6 said:


> I've been chasing it for months and finally got my first sub 4 on 6x6 yesterday.
> 
> http://azcubing.com/Screenshot_20151119-121525.jpg


Nice! I still can't even solve it without cheat sheets. I really doubt I learn until I finish memorizing the full OLL.


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## Chree (Nov 20, 2015)

LL Cool Skip said:


> I've been doing mainly OH and 2x2 practice in preparation for my competition this weekend. I've been hoping I will get a sub-5 avg on 2x2.
> 
> New 2x2 Ao12 pb today: *3.895* = (5.233), 3.633, 4.484, 4.683, 3.900, 4.483, 4.250, 3.435, 3.200, 3.683, 3.200, (2.834)
> 
> I got a 4.05 Ao12 two days ago also. These are crazy stupid and were both done without stackmat. Starting to think I should only count 2x2 pbs if stackmat.



Damn man... I think you're at least gonna make it to finals. Might even make it to the same podium as Anthony Brooks


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## chtiger (Nov 20, 2015)

Everybody here is improving so much at everything, I need to practice more to keep up somewhat. So I tried my first MBLD in a few weeks, and finally got 6/6. Woohoo. Time was 40:50.78, which is about normal for me. Memo ~27 minutes.


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## mark49152 (Nov 21, 2015)

EvilGnome6 said:


> I've been chasing it for months and finally got my first sub 4 on 6x6 yesterday.


Congrats! . Today I got my first sub-7, at 6:55 . I don't practice 6x6 much but have done a few solves this week because it was lying on the desk. What method do you use and how much do you practise?

I am determined to get an official 5x5 average, which means either travelling abroad or meeting the UK comp 2:30 soft cut. The latter is cheaper in money but more expensive in time. I got 2:48 PB ao12 today so am heading in the right direction, but my projection tells me it will take about 2000 solves to get to 2:20 average, which is where I'd start to be optimistic of a sub-2:30 bo2 in comp. That's an ao12 per day for about 6 months. Hmmm. Any good comps coming up in Spain or Netherlands?


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## EvilGnome6 (Nov 21, 2015)

mark49152 said:


> Congrats! . Today I got my first sub-7, at 6:55 . I don't practice 6x6 much but have done a few solves this week because it was lying on the desk. What method do you use and how much do you practise?



I use Yau with half centers on 4x4 through 7x7. I have a 4:15 6x6 solve posted on my YouTube channel which is slow enough to be a walkthrough. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c5RL_TvM610

Process: 

2 Centers
3 Cross edges
4 Centers 
1 Cross edge
3x3 

I work on 2x2 through 7x7 pretty much evenly and steal as much practice time as I can. I probably get 2-3 hours on each cube in 2-3 sessions through the week.



> I am determined to get an official 5x5 average, which means either travelling abroad or meeting the UK comp 2:30 soft cut. The latter is cheaper in money but more expensive in time. I got 2:48 PB ao12 today so am heading in the right direction, but my projection tells me it will take about 2000 solves to get to 2:20 average, which is where I'd start to be optimistic of a sub-2:30 bo2 in comp. That's an ao12 per day for about 6 months. Hmmm. Any good comps coming up in Spain or Netherlands?



Alternately, you can organize your own competition and set the cutoffs high enough for you to make them.  That's how I got my 6x6 and 7x7 averages.


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## Rastinha (Nov 21, 2015)

I tried to film an average of 5 or 12 a couple of days ago but my partner came home halfway through the first solve and then I was talking to him and it messed me up, so I thought I would just upload a single so you can all see my crazed and uncoordinated panicky approach, haha! You can hear me say hello to him halfway through. There are a million things wrong with my technique, haha, but I would love some advice on which of them you think I should work on *first* to make the most impact. The last video I took was a 1:02.xx about 1.5 weeks into cubing, now it's been a couple of months and I managed to film this one.


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## Jason Green (Nov 21, 2015)

Rastinha said:


> I tried to film an average of 5 or 12 a couple of days ago but my partner came home halfway through the first solve and then I was talking to him and it messed me up, so I thought I would just upload a single so you can all see my crazed and uncoordinated panicky approach, haha! You can hear me say hello to him halfway through. There are a million things wrong with my technique, haha, but I would love some advice on which of them you think I should work on *first* to make the most impact. The last video I took was a 1:02.xx about 1.5 weeks into cubing, now it's been a couple of months and I managed to film this one.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hZmvOQt2-AI


Hmmm, I'm pretty horrible at coaching anything. Looks like everything was good to me.  Did you start the cross on top? I guess you might try to do it on bottom to help look ahead for your first F2L pair.


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## Jason Green (Nov 21, 2015)

Muchacho, I had my second sub 20 tonight. Definite PLL skip this time! I don't care. I'm not nearly good enough to feel bad about that. 

Your turn!


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## muchacho (Nov 21, 2015)

Challenge accepted, I can beat that! ...maybe this year, if I get a very easy scramble, a CMLL I know and a LSE skip


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## muchacho (Nov 21, 2015)

mark49152 said:


> Any good comps coming up in Spain or Netherlands?


Tomorrow in Mijas (Málaga) three-minute cutoff for 5x5.

Next weekend in Terrassa (Barcelona) also a three-minute cutoff.

I think that's normal in Spain, I also remember seeing some four-minute cutoffs for 5x5. It must be to attract turists from UK and Poland


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## Jason Green (Nov 21, 2015)

If I've had a few drinks and try some solves before bed, I only count the good ones... Because I blame the drinks. Of course I would never share such useless and trivial information, unless I had had a few drinks.


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## mark49152 (Nov 21, 2015)

muchacho said:


> Next weekend in Terrassa (Barcelona) also a three-minute cutoff.


Registration is closed. Looks like my options are Finland or South Africa.


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## APdRF (Nov 21, 2015)

mark49152 said:


> Registration is closed. Looks like my options are Finland or South Africa.



We might have a good comp organised in February with a good cut-off, maybe you want to wait for it...


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## moralsh (Nov 21, 2015)

Yeah, te two last posters of the thread know stuff about organizing that comp


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## mark49152 (Nov 21, 2015)

APdRF said:


> We might have a good comp organised in February with a good cut-off, maybe you want to wait for it...


Awesome, I will keep practising . Assuming it's no more than 4 hours flying from the UK


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## newtonbase (Nov 21, 2015)

Jason Green said:


> If I've had a few drinks and try some solves before bed, I only count the good ones... Because I blame the drinks. Of course I would never share such useless and trivial information, unless I had had a few drinks.



If you are getting any good solves then you are clearly not drinking enough.


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## mark49152 (Nov 21, 2015)

newtonbase said:


> If you are getting any good solves then you are clearly not drinking enough.


Its a bit like dancing: you're a way better cuber when drunk, just don't look at the timer...


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## newtonbase (Nov 21, 2015)

mark49152 said:


> Its a bit like dancing: you're a way better cuber when drunk, just don't look at the timer...



I managed 3 consecutive solves over 70s after much vodka the other night including a 1:35. I could use qqtimer as a hangover predictor.


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## JanW (Nov 21, 2015)

mark49152 said:


> Registration is closed. Looks like my options are Finland or South Africa.


Finland is usually nice, but Finland in November isn't necessarily the nicest experience...

Looks like I would already have a chance to make it into the top 100 in national rankings for both 3x3 single and average, if I can avoid excessive amounts of vodka in the last few hours leading up to the comp and perform at normal level. In 3bld a successful solve would be enough to get into the top 20.  Unfortunately I can't make it to the next comp and the one after that is side events only, no 3x3. The quest for official results will have to wait.


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## mafergut (Nov 21, 2015)

MarcelP said:


> Cool! Where are the 3X3 results  I had a bad week... sup 20 does not occur very often any more..



I added today some more results to my weekly comp post. 3x3 was so-so (sub-19). 4x4 was terrible for those easy scrambles but... I got a OH Ao5 PB!!! 

I'm hooked


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## Rastinha (Nov 21, 2015)

Jason Green said:


> Hmmm, I'm pretty horrible at coaching anything. Looks like everything was good to me.  Did you start the cross on top? I guess you might try to do it on bottom to help look ahead for your first F2L pair.



I did it kind of cross in front for half and then cross on bottom. I know my look ahead needs improving, probably one of the main reasons why my F2L is so slow. That and I need some better algorithms so it doesn't take me 20 moves to do an F2L pair where the pieces are adjacent or on top of each other, haha


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## Jason Green (Nov 21, 2015)

newtonbase said:


> I managed 3 consecutive solves over 70s after much vodka the other night including a 1:35. I could use qqtimer as a hangover predictor.


3x3 solves? Wow I guess I'm not drinking enough. I still could get my average like 10% of the time. 

My wife and I cracked up about the hangover predictor!


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## Jason Green (Nov 21, 2015)

Rastinha said:


> I did it kind of cross in front for half and then cross on bottom. I know my look ahead needs improving, probably one of the main reasons why my F2L is so slow. That and I need some better algorithms so it doesn't take me 20 moves to do an F2L pair where the pieces are adjacent or on top of each other, haha


I just recently saw this video on f2l and I like it. Especially how you can try the four triggers for any case where they are paired to teach yourself the best solution. (I'm on my phone and don't recall how to insert the link like Mike showed me)

https://youtu.be/-3qLnfDZqG0


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## newtonbase (Nov 21, 2015)

Jason Green said:


> 3x3 solves? Wow I guess I'm not drinking enough. I still could get my average like 10% of the time.
> 
> My wife and I cracked up about the hangover predictor!



Yes, 3x3. Just found the session and the most shameful section was 1:35, 1:15, 1:28, 57, 42 & 1:08. I currently average high 30s but it was a LOT of vodka.


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## Jason Green (Nov 21, 2015)

newtonbase said:


> Yes, 3x3. Just found the session and the most shameful section was 1:35, 1:15, 1:28, 57, 42 & 1:08. I currently average high 30s but it was a LOT of vodka.


Sounds like just before the point you only THINK you are running yourself, but actually starting a game of angry birds each time.


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## h2f (Nov 22, 2015)

MarcelP said:


> Go get them! Break a leg



I think I've broken my leg and got a little disaster: http://cubecomps.com/live.php?cid=1223&compid=29
But I know you didnt mean it. 

What happedn if FM? Answer is simple: mistakes in notation. I wrote y instead of y', B instead of B' and D instead of D'. In last solve I found 33 moves solution. Next time gonna be better. In OH - I dont know what happend. In 3bld - I was very tired and memo was awfull. There wasnt any bigger break. But I'm quite happy with time: first official solve with turbo/3style. I need much more practice. Next two were dnfs because of mistakes in undoing setups. They were sub 2 (I remeber last one 1:47.xx). And only in 3x3 I've made a pb ao5: 22.65. In 20.20 I got Nb perm which I dont like and I do it in 3 seconds. With hard recognition it took me 5 seconds.


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## muchacho (Nov 22, 2015)

Congrats on that PB!

Do you have that 33 FMC scramble/solution?

I would like to compete in FMC, but using Roux is not an option, right? (M moves are not allowed I think).


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## shadowslice e (Nov 22, 2015)

muchacho said:


> Congrats on that PB!
> 
> Do you have that 33 FMC scramble/solution?
> 
> I would like to compete in FMC, but using Roux is not an option, right? (M moves are not allowed I think).



well they would count as 3 if you want to use Ms (R, L' x' or something like that I believe).


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## mark49152 (Nov 22, 2015)

h2f said:


> I think I've broken my leg and got a little disaster:


Congrats on the 3x3 PB though, it's nice to go home with at least one PB, especially the main event .

Also nice to switch method (3BLD) and still get a respectable result. Proves you're on track with it.


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## bubbagrub (Nov 22, 2015)

muchacho said:


> Congrats on that PB!
> 
> Do you have that 33 FMC scramble/solution?
> 
> I would like to compete in FMC, but using Roux is not an option, right? (M moves are not allowed I think).



M moves are allowed in FMC (they count as two moves), but you need to know how to write them (see the regulations). Rotations are also allowed, and don't count as moves, but it makes life 100% easier if you don't use them, and learn instead to allocate letters (F, B, U, D, R, L) to colours rather than directions.

And FMC with Roux is not a bad idea -- Alex Lau got an official 26 using Roux. Ok, he was very lucky, but still, it's probably better than trying to use CFOP.


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## h2f (Nov 22, 2015)

muchacho said:


> Congrats on that PB!
> 
> Do you have that 33 FMC scramble/solution?
> 
> I would like to compete in FMC, but using Roux is not an option, right? (M moves are not allowed I think).



Yes I have. Roux is a good beginnig to FM - it teaches you how to build blocks and to deal with it. But not best option. M moves are not allowed and you must write them as RwR' or LwL' etc. So it counts as 2. But in home I did once 33 with pure Roux. 



Spoiler



Scrmable: L2 B U2 B F2 D2 F' R' D' R F' L' F' L' R' B' F D

B L R F D' B2 U2 F R' U F' R // 2x2x3
U F' L F L' // eo
B2 R' F2 R B2 R' F2 R // insertion no cancelation
U' L U2 L' // F2L-1
U' L' U' L // without insertion it's 25 moves with 3 corners left. Insertion finder says there's no cancelation on insertions it finds. 

alg.cubing.net


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## h2f (Nov 22, 2015)

mark49152 said:


> Congrats on the 3x3 PB though, it's nice to go home with at least one PB, especially the main event .
> 
> Also nice to switch method (3BLD) and still get a respectable result. Proves you're on track with it.



Thank you. It matters to me what you wrote. I think the same way about it. Maybe I do a little break from 3bld and next try to solve it with comms on edges...


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## muchacho (Nov 22, 2015)

Jason Green said:


> 18.721
> 
> Muchacho
> 
> Your turn!



My turn!

19.088 U' R2 B2 D B2 D2 R2 B2 D F2 U B' R' L B' U2 F D F' L2 D2

I was a bit slow at the end, it could have been better, but I'll beat that 18.721 this year! (but maybe not before you improve it) 

_Previous PB was 19.511_


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## Jason Green (Nov 22, 2015)

muchacho said:


> My turn!
> 
> 19.088U' R2 B2 D B2 D2 R2 B2 D F2 U B' R' L B' U2 F D F' L2 D2
> 
> ...


Awesome that was fast! I'm certainly not expecting to be doing too many of them yet, maybe racing each other will help!


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## Isaac Lai (Nov 22, 2015)

bubbagrub said:


> M moves are allowed in FMC (they count as two moves), but you need to know how to write them (see the regulations). Rotations are also allowed, and don't count as moves, but it makes life 100% easier if you don't use them, and learn instead to allocate letters (F, B, U, D, R, L) to colours rather than directions.
> 
> And FMC with Roux is not a bad idea -- Alex Lau got an official 26 using Roux. Ok, he was very lucky, but still, it's probably better than trying to use CFOP.



Mind you, Tim Wong and Vincent Sheu use pretty much pure CFOP/FreeFOP. The trick is to block build, then fish for skips (you might not always get lucky though)


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## h2f (Nov 22, 2015)

3bld from last competiotion: 2:17.25. Memo was awfull - two breakings in 3cycle, 7 pairs = 14 targets. I was so nervous. When I put the cube I thought I must touch timer again to start timer, like in normal solve. And I forgot how to do UBL - UFR - DBL. Finally did it with OP, but lost around 15 seconds. Knowing this I think it's a quite good solve.


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## JanW (Nov 22, 2015)

Nice solve h2f! Do you mean LDB or RDB when you say UDB?

I'd just like to say that bld is hard... Got a lucky success last week, but haven't been able to repeat it since. At first I mostly ended up with cubes that looked just as scrambled as when I started, must have done some mistake with setup moves during edges. When it wasn't a total mess, I usually had corners correct, but some edges off, indicating that edges was indeed the weak point. I reviewed my edge technique and came up with an improvement for recognition. Now I don't need to think at all about any clockwise/counterclockwise directions for the interchange move, all moves are derived directly from the pattern of the 3-cycle on the cube. This improved both execution speed and accuracy a lot. 

Last 3 attempts I did flawless execution of my memo, but in all 3 I had memo mistakes. Once I missed a flipped edge, the second I somehow missed an entire cycle of edge memo and stopped at the second cycle break, when there was still 3 edge pieces that I hadn't solved. Third time I memorized the letter for the wrong side of one edge piece. Right now memo also takes way longer than execution. Need to work on that, learn my letter scheme better and make a word list for my letter pairs.


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## h2f (Nov 22, 2015)

JanW said:


> Nice solve h2f! Do you mean LDB or RDB when you say UDB?



Thanks. Fixed. I mean UBL - UFR - DBL. One of not friendly cases. I had it only few times. Last time on Nats and I did also with OP. I figured out than it can be done very easeliy - R2 U': [U' R2 U, L2] - but forgot about it.


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## JanW (Nov 22, 2015)

h2f said:


> Thanks. Fixed. I mean UBL - UFR - DBL. One of not friendly cases. I had it only few times. Last time on Nats and I did also with OP. I figured out than it can be done very easeliy - R2 U': [U' R2 U, L2] - but forgot about it.


Why R2 instead of R' U': [U' R U, L2]? Another option without setup moves would be [L2 D' L2 D L2, U2], but that's maybe not the most comfortable direction to do that alg.


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## h2f (Nov 22, 2015)

JanW said:


> Why R2 instead of R' U': [U' R U, L2]? Another option without setup moves would be [L2 D' L2 D L2, U2], but that's maybe not the most comfortable direction to do that alg.



Oh yes. You right. With R' it makes one of cases I like. Thanks, I didnt notice it. And this trick with L2 i know for right hand and U/U2 but I dont like


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## mafergut (Nov 22, 2015)

h2f said:


> 3bld from last competiotion: 2:17.25. Memo was awfull - two breakings in 3cycle, 7 targets. I was so nervous. When I put the cube I thought I must touch timer again to start timer, like in normal solve. And I forgot how to do UBL - UFR - DBL. Finally did it with OP, but lost around 15 seconds. Knowing this I think it's a quite good solve.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mEAKKosac8g



Impressive that with all the nervousness and indecision you still managed to solve it in not much more than 2 minutes. What's your (non-official) PB single?

By the way, lubed, tensioned and stickered my Dayan 2x2. It is not much better than it was. 6.01 Ao50, still not sub-6, improved a bit my Ao100 PB down to 6.11.


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## h2f (Nov 22, 2015)

mafergut said:


> Impressive that with all the nervousness and indecision you still managed to solve it in not much more than 2 minutes. What's your (non-official) PB single?
> 
> By the way, lubed, tensioned and stickered my Dayan 2x2. It is not much better than it was. 6.01 Ao50, still not sub-6, improved a bit my Ao100 PB down to 6.11.



Thanks. My PB is 1:17.2 but with 3style/M2. With 3style/Turbo i got 1:25 or something like that.


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## muchacho (Nov 22, 2015)

mafergut said:


> By the way, lubed, tensioned and stickered my Dayan 2x2. It is not much better than it was. 6.01 Ao50, still not sub-6, improved a bit my Ao100 PB down to 6.11.


Mine improved with... a LOT of solves.


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## mafergut (Nov 22, 2015)

muchacho said:


> Mine improved with... a LOT of solves.



The latest running session goes beyong 800. I must have put like 3-4 thousand solves on it. I assume that, for a 2x2, a LOT of solves is more like 20.000 and up 
I will have to tighten it more, though, as in like 150 solves today since I lubed it, I've had like 5 mega-pops, the last one was more than half the pieces


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## muchacho (Nov 22, 2015)

For a LOT I meant the 7000 or so that I've done with it, 3-4 thousands should be enough. Have you tried another Dayan? Maybe that one is defective.

Mine doesn't pop (well, maybe once every 1000).

Attached photo of how tight is it.


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## muchacho (Nov 22, 2015)

I'm creating a (web) CMLL trainer, could someone please check if it working and if it's of any use?

http://alejos.org/cmll-trainer.php

In http://alejos.org/cmll-trainer-settings.php you select the algs you want to practice and the color scheme and possible cube orientations.

It uses the space bar to start/stop the timer and go to the next scramble.





_It doesn't work on mobile devices for now._


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## Sergeant Baboon (Nov 22, 2015)

muchacho said:


> I'm creating a (web) CMLL trainer, could someone please check if it working and if it's of any use?
> 
> http://alejos.org/cmll-trainer.php
> 
> ...



I like that I can change the color scheme and set the orientations I can solve in, that's really cool.

It seems to default to having none of the CMLL cases checked. I didn't realize this at first, so I was a bit confused that the scramble I was getting was solving the cube, haha. It might be nice to default to have all of them checked.

Really nice program otherwise! It's made me realize how slow my CMLL is though... maybe with this I'll finally get around to learning full CMLL


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## muchacho (Nov 22, 2015)

Thanks, I'll change it to all CMLLs checked by default, sorry about that 

I know only half of CMLL cases myself, hope this tool helps me too.


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## EvilGnome6 (Nov 22, 2015)

Sunday Single 4x4 in 1:04.73. Once again I'm just shy of getting a sub-1. Someday... 

Sorry about the bad camera angle. I'll work on setting up the shot a bit better next time.

Cube used was a Cyclone Boys 4x4 G4.


----------



## Jason Green (Nov 23, 2015)

EvilGnome6 said:


> Sunday Single 4x4 in 1:04.73. Once again I'm just shy of getting a sub-1. Someday...
> 
> Sorry about the bad camera angle. I'll work on setting up the shot a bit better next time.
> 
> ...


Cool, almost makes me wanna learn 4x4 sooner.


----------



## Chree (Nov 23, 2015)

I wonder what the record for "Oldest Average Age of the Winners List" is. I submit this entry.

https://www.worldcubeassociation.org/results/c.php?i=PDXCubingBeta2015

It's a shame Anthony Brooks brought down the average 3 times. That might hurt us in the rankings.


Edit: Average age of PDX Cubing Beta 2015 winners was only 27.66. Weighted by # of appearances it's 26.85. Damnit Anthony!


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## MarcelP (Nov 23, 2015)

h2f said:


> I think I've broken my leg and got a little disaster: http://cubecomps.com/live.php?cid=1223&compid=29
> But I know you didnt mean it.



Still nice to have a PB in main event right?  The two OH's are nice also..


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## h2f (Nov 23, 2015)

MarcelP said:


> Still nice to have a PB in main event right?  The two OH's are nice also..



Yes, you're right. I hope on next comp I'll be sub20.  But in OH my level is sub 50.


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## moralsh (Nov 23, 2015)

Congrats on the average Grzegorz  How close where the 3BLD DNFs?

I also failed miserably OH at my last comp, it's strange how nerves work in a comp, I've never been nervous or calm in all events, I seem to be calm in half of the events or so, and not always in the same ones. It's a bit of a lottery.

I received my Gans 356, my yuxins (4 and 5) and my AoFu but I haven't had a lot of time to play around with them because I was traveling last week and will be also the next one, but they look and feel great.

I had time to record a few videos, sorry for the mobile quality, here they go:

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLQn-lvh8s4DqRKEzGxAQh6BCJquZr028K


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## muchacho (Nov 23, 2015)

moralsh said:


> I had time to record a few videos, sorry for the mobile quality, here they go:
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLQn-lvh8s4DqRKEzGxAQh6BCJquZr028K


Cool!


Spoiler



I though the fourth was going to be OH + BLD or BLD with cube on the back


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## h2f (Nov 23, 2015)

moralsh said:


> Congrats on the average Grzegorz  How close where the 3BLD DNFs?



My video shows that a lot. I've mistaken during corners which I execute first.


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## mafergut (Nov 23, 2015)

h2f said:


> Thanks. My PB is 1:17.2 but with 3style/M2. With 3style/Turbo i got 1:25 or something like that.



Wow! Just... wow! Close to the 1min barrier is crazy fast for 3BLD. You're a top gun!!!! Now I'm even more envious! 



muchacho said:


> For a LOT I meant the 7000 or so that I've done with it, 3-4 thousands should be enough. Have you tried another Dayan? Maybe that one is defective.
> Mine doesn't pop (well, maybe once every 1000).
> Attached photo of how tight is it.



Maybe I have not done so many, as I also use my LingPo and CB once in a while, maybe it's just a couple thousands, so I'll keep solving with it. Regarding tension, mine is now even a bit tighter than that, but while comparing with yours I have realized that it's not equal in all axes, so I need to make tensions even (after having disassembled it) and see if that fixes the popping.



EvilGnome6 said:


> Sunday Single 4x4 in 1:04.73. Once again I'm just shy of getting a sub-1. Someday...
> 
> Cube used was a Cyclone Boys 4x4 G4.



Wow! I like a lot your turning style with the 4x4. If you had not had PLL parity you would have been sub-1 for sure. I'm still fighting with sub-2  but your sunday solves are inspirational for me to keep trying.


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## JanW (Nov 23, 2015)

Christmas came early this year! 



First impressions, favorite out of the box is the stickerless Weilong v2. Just feels good, can't describe it any better. Also like the Cyclone Boys XuanFeng stickerless, but the spring noises are quite bad. Needs lubing, I suppose. 

The feel and action of the Tanglong is by far the best, but I really shouldn't have ordered the gray version. Sticker scheme is horrible, my recognition is really slow and the yellow color hurts my eyes. Didn't get a single sub-50 solve in my first 12 attempts, I simply can't find anything on the cube. Somehow the colors are blurred out by the gray background. For comparison, the very first solve with the CB was sub-30.

The Shengshou Aurora and Wind I ordered as I had read that they are good for new cubers. I can see why. Super stable and easy to control with fast turning. Unfortunately corner cutting is next to non-existent. I think I will use those a lot for blind practice though. 

Last 3x3 is a GuanLong. It was the most sold cube on the site and <3$ so I just went with it. First impression was that it's just... weird. Super light, plastic feels very cheap, it is extremely loose and requires no effort at all to turn. The first cube I've been able to easily perform M moves on (I mean M as in M, not M' or M2). Not sure what to do with this one. It feels fast, but too flimsy for regular solving. Perhaps the extremely light turning is good if I ever want to learn OH?

The 4x4 is a Yuxin Lion. I was a bit worried about this one. I think I placed the order about the same day the cube was released, because I couldn't find any reviews of the puzzle online at that time, nor any mention of it on these forums. But I had read so much good about the Yuxin 5x5 that I figured any 4x4 they put out on the market should be at least decent. Later I saw reviews that didn't exactly praise the cube. I like it, though I have nothing to compare with as it's the first 4x4 I ever try. Turns nicely and quite easy to control. But I do see why all the reviewers complain about sharp corners. They are really sharp.


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## mafergut (Nov 23, 2015)

JanW said:


> Christmas came early this year!
> 
> The feel and action of the Tanglong is by far the best [...]
> The Shengshou Aurora and Wind I ordered as I had read that they are good for new cubers. I can see why. [...]
> ...



Just some comments.

Grey Tanglong. Yeah, other-than-black or at least very dark plastic throws my recognition off. I recently got a black Tanglong and I love the shades, in fact they have changed orange a bit with respect to previous Moyu shades and it's closer to my own custom shades. I love the cube and the shades. Maybe a mistake to buy it in grey.

Shengshou Wind is a bit bad judged by current standards. The Aurora, on the other hand, is still a great, great cube. If properly set up (lubed and tensioned) corner cutting is almost on par with current cubes and the turning is soooo smooth. I really like it, even though I don't use it that much any more. So don't abandon it without giving a try at setting it up properly.

Guanlong. I just set up one yesterday. It was a DIY kit that I had lying around waiting for a missing spring that I got from TheCubicle the other day. I lubed it, added some washers (that don't come with the cube), stickered it with full fitted stickers (I tried pink instead of red ) but, in the end it's what you say, it feels light and bad plastic. I don't like it much. Maybe for somebody that needs like 20 for MBLD and is on a budget but not for regular speedsolving. Have not tried it for OH but you might have a point, I will definitely try.

The Lion, yeah, the "good" Yuxin 4x4 is the previous one, this is a budget cube, like the Fire or the Guanlong. You just unboxed it and you already have PLL parity? 

Also about the Weilong, yeah, it is still a great and very smooth cube. No idea about the CB, it's the only 3x3 you mentioned I don't have.


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## JanW (Nov 23, 2015)

mafergut said:


> Just some comments.
> 
> ...


Yeah, I really wish I had ordered a black Tanglong. I can perform algs on it faster than on any of the other cubes, but the recognition really sucks. I'll try to resticker it, have to figure out what shades to buy. The CB has the best color scheme in my opinion. Will look for similar color stickers.

And yes, just like my Yuxin 5x5, the Lion also seems to come with some parity errors. Maybe I should ask for a refund.


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## Jason Green (Nov 23, 2015)

moralsh said:


> Congrats on the average Grzegorz  How close where the 3BLD DNFs?
> 
> I also failed miserably OH at my last comp, it's strange how nerves work in a comp, I've never been nervous or calm in all events, I seem to be calm in half of the events or so, and not always in the same ones. It's a bit of a lottery.
> 
> ...


My 3 year old said, wow, how did he climb up a building and do his Rubik's cube!?!


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## mafergut (Nov 23, 2015)

JanW said:


> Yeah, I really wish I had ordered a black Tanglong. I can perform algs on it faster than on any of the other cubes, but the recognition really sucks. I'll try to resticker it, have to figure out what shades to buy. The CB has the best color scheme in my opinion. Will look for similar color stickers.
> 
> And yes, just like my Yuxin 5x5, the Lion also seems to come with some parity errors. Maybe I should ask for a refund.



I have a white SS Aurora and I have a really tough time with recog. I changed the stickers to my own shades and they look completely different to how they look on my black cubes. I would suggest you to use maybe darker colours (but that would be for white, don't know what to recommend for grey, to be honest) but I think the only thing that will fix that is practice. I have watched a video comparison I think it was by SpeedCubeReview and the conclusion was that after getting used to it, recog is equally good on white, I assume it should be the same for grey as well.

Yeah, ask for a refund, definitely


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## moralsh (Nov 23, 2015)

muchacho said:


> Cool!
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> ...



I can do BLD with cube on back, it may be harder with the coat, though, but about doing BLD +OH, the simple thought of doing 7-9 Y-perms OH scares me enough not to try it 



Jason Green said:


> My 3 year old said, wow, how did he climb up a building and do his Rubik's cube!?!



And with my eyes closed, climbing with your eyes closed is the hardest part!

I forgot to tell you that the in the first try on times square that my sister failed to record, I was assaulted by Elmo, Elvis and the Cookie monster, New York, New York...


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## muchacho (Nov 23, 2015)

They thought you were Feliks and really loved to have a photo with you.


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## mafergut (Nov 24, 2015)

moralsh said:


> [...]I forgot to tell you that the in the first try on times square that my sister failed to record, I was assaulted by Elmo, Elvis and the Cookie monster, New York, New York...



I was going to ask who was the woman having that much patience to record you all over NY solving your cube. On our last vacation (to London) I didn't even dare to carry any cubes with me. If I had asked my wife or son to record me solving at Trafalgar Square or Picadilly Circus they'd probably thrown me the cube and the camera


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## muchacho (Nov 24, 2015)

What's one minute of their time compared to the hours of a day? Trafalgar Square can't be so cool that they can't stop admiring it for a minute (maybe if it were Trafalgar Cube).


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## mafergut (Nov 24, 2015)

muchacho said:


> What's one minute of their time compared to the hours of a day? Trafalgar Square can't be so cool that they can't stop admiring it for a minute (maybe if it were Trafalgar Cube).



No way, had I tried that, the sequence of videos would have been: 1) me solving the cube in front of the Big Ben; 2) my wife throwing the cube to the Thames river.


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## MarcelP (Nov 24, 2015)

mafergut said:


> 1) me solving the cube in front of the Big Ben; 2) my wife throwing the cube to the Thames river.



LOL.. same here..


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## mark49152 (Nov 24, 2015)

mafergut said:


> No way, had I tried that, the sequence of videos would have been: 1) me solving the cube in front of the Big Ben; 2) my wife throwing the cube to the Thames river.


I would probably get pushed in after it...


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## muchacho (Nov 24, 2015)

Seems life of a cuber is quite risky... I won't cube in public


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## JanW (Nov 24, 2015)

On the menu today: one bld attempt on each of my 3x3 cubes. Result:



4x one flipped edge or corner pair
2x one 3-cycle executed in wrong direction
1x flipped edge pair+edge cycle executed in wrong direction
1x messed up setup moves

= 8/8 dnf 

It's getting kind of frustrating to mostly have one mistake/solve. Times were in the 4:30-6:30 range, 2-3 minutes memo and 2:30-3:30 execution. I think all of the flipped edges/corners were memo mistakes, either I missed a flipped piece during memo, or memorized the wrong letter for some piece.


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## moralsh (Nov 24, 2015)

Well, I have been to India, Thailand, Germany, Scotland, USA, Rusia, Netherlands and Mexico Since I cube with my wife and the only videos I have are recorded by my sister, I rest my case.


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## h2f (Nov 24, 2015)

JanW said:


> On the menu today: one bld attempt on each of my 3x3 cubes. Result:
> 
> It's getting kind of frustrating to mostly have one mistake/solve. Times were in the 4:30-6:30 range, 2-3 minutes memo and 2:30-3:30 execution. I think all of the flipped edges/corners were memo mistakes, either I missed a flipped piece during memo, or memorized the wrong letter for some piece.



You're in the beginnig of the road. Dont give up - in few months you will be 100% accurate.


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## MarcelP (Nov 24, 2015)

JanW said:


> On the menu today: one bld attempt on each of my 3x3 cubes. Result:
> 
> View attachment 5677
> 
> ...



Still those are all pretty close... I woud be totally fine with these results today


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## mafergut (Nov 24, 2015)

MarcelP said:


> Still those are all pretty close... I woud be totally fine with these results today



Same here! That would be close enough to success for me right now. I was gonna ask if that had been a multi-blind attempt but now I'm reading again, where you explain the memo and execution time for each so I assume those were individual BLD attempts but with different cubes.

Back to 2x2 I am keeping my progress trend this week. I think I can consider myself as sub-6 with Ortega and, maybe for the 1st time I have been able to one-look 3 solves in my latest Ao100. Well, all of them included an OLL skip but if that's not the case is quite difficult to one-look an ortega solve unless you have super-spatial vision and you know really well how each OLL case permutes the corners and, even in that case it's not that easy.

One example:

3.27 U' F2 U2 F' R2 U' R2 U2 F' 

x y' // Inspection. I see that I'll have orange face on bottom with white bar in front and OLL skip on top with white bar in the back so...

U' R' // Face
U2 // Top bar in front
R2 U' B2 U2 R2 U' R2 // PBL with no AUF

This and the following solve were both one look and got me a PB Ao5 of 4.31 = 3.61, (6.64), (3.27), 4.23, 5.10


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## JanW (Nov 24, 2015)

h2f said:


> You're in the beginnig of the road. Dont give up - in few months you will be 100% accurate.


Nope, definitely not giving up! I'm actually very happy with the progress so far. Still a week ago it was more like 6-7 minutes memo, >5 min execution and a lot more messy results. Times are dropping very fast as I'm getting more used to the cycles. I also started compiling a list with setup moves for each edge cycle. Not intending to learn them all by heart at this stage, but while making the list I'll notice which cycles are hard to figure out and I can memorize those cases. Once done with the list, I might also replace some tricky cases with standard comms if I find a better solution that way. The hardest cycles to figure out with my system are usually those cases that have 2 stickers interchangeable with an M or other slice move, so comms should complement these very nicely.



MarcelP said:


> Still those are all pretty close... I woud be totally fine with these results today





mafergut said:


> Same here! That would be close enough to success for me right now. I was gonna ask if that had been a multi-blind attempt but now I'm reading again, where you explain the memo and execution time for each so I assume those were individual BLD attempts but with different cubes.


Thanks! Yeah, multiblind would be a bit crazy at this point. Maybe I'll wait until I have at least 2 successful 3bld solves before attempting multi... But I'm sure I will eventually want to learn that as well. This is fun!


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## newtonbase (Nov 24, 2015)

You are making impressive progress JanW. They were all very minor errors that will become increasingly rare. I do a lot of them myself as I get sloppy with things like flipped edges and parity. I need to come up with a proper system to follow.


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## JanW (Nov 24, 2015)

newtonbase said:


> You are making impressive progress JanW. They were all very minor errors that will become increasingly rare. I do a lot of them myself as I get sloppy with things like flipped edges and parity. I need to come up with a proper system to follow.


Thank you! 

What kind of system do people usually use to spot and memo flipped pieces? So far I've just looked briefly over the cube at end of memo to see if there are any pieces that need flipping, then memorized the location visually (location of piece for edges and location of white/yellow sticker on corners that need flipping), but obviously this is not working very well. Sometimes I don't notice them in inspection, and when I do notice them I often forget to execute them, because they are not a part of the list of words/syllables in my memo.


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## Chree (Nov 24, 2015)

JanW said:


> Thank you!
> 
> What kind of system do people usually use to spot and memo flipped pieces? So far I've just looked briefly over the cube at end of memo to see if there are any pieces that need flipping, then memorized the location visually (location of piece for edges and location of white/yellow sticker on corners that need flipping), but obviously this is not working very well. Sometimes I don't notice them in inspection, and when I do notice them I often forget to execute them, because they are not a part of the list of words/syllables in my memo.



Very relevant to my interests. I finally wanna do BLD in comp.

What I was doing was spotting them visually, then I tap that piece and also try to remember it with that teensy bit of muscle memory. For corners twists, I try to Set-up that piece in UFL, then I'll either do Left Antisune+Right Antisune for CW twists, or I'll do Right Sune + Left Sune for CCW twists. Then undo Set-up. Other people will just put the piece anywhere in the U layer, then Dan-Brown that piece and Anti-Dan Brown the buffer.

I wonder if any of that makes sense.

Remembering CW or CCW for a single twist is pretty easy, but I'm sure there's a more reliable system for it. If I have multiple corner twists, it gets kinda tough for me to keep track of. So I'm really interested to hear what other people say about this.


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## h2f (Nov 24, 2015)

JanW said:


> Thank you!
> 
> What kind of system do people usually use to spot and memo flipped pieces?



Yes, your progress looks fine. I wonder where it will lead you. 

About flipped edges, I just remeber it like a photo. Sometimes name it like "flipped K" or something. For twisted corners I just mark in what spot white or yellow sticker is. My orientation is yellow on top and memo it like, K, E or something. If there 2 or more twisted corners I just connect it in pair - twisted BC etc. I hope you know what I mean. 

Chree, theres easy trick for twisted corners R U R' U' done twice than L' and undo U R U' R' twice and L. It works with setups, same on the L' U' etc. I think you will figure it out. For 3 corners you can do sune with U perm to undo permutation of edges.


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## Sergeant Baboon (Nov 24, 2015)

I've been using Y and Z for twists and flips. YF means twist the RFU corner clockwise, ZF is counter-clockwise, and either can mean a flipped edge. It's probably not efficient but it fits into the Journey Method so it works just fine for MBLD. Also, since you use two letters for a single twist or flip, you can still identify parity by an odd letter at the end of your memo.


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## Chree (Nov 24, 2015)

h2f said:


> Chree, theres easy trick for twisted corners R U R' U' done twice than L' and undo U R U' R' twice and L. It works with setups, same on the L' U' etc. I think you will figure it out. For 3 corners you can do sune with U perm to undo permutation of edges.



Whoa! Nice! Thank you!


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## JanW (Nov 25, 2015)

h2f said:


> Chree, theres easy trick for twisted corners R U R' U' done twice than L' and undo U R U' R' twice and L. It works with setups, same on the L' U' etc. I think you will figure it out. For 3 corners you can do sune with U perm to undo permutation of edges.


Great trick! I've seen it mentioned before but didn't see the versatility of it. It's a commutator where the insertion phase rotates two different corners and you can do the interchange with either of them, so L moves for twisting two L face corners or D moves for twisting 2 D face corners. The cool thing is that you can also use this to twist 3 corners (UBL, DFR and any other L or D face corner) with a 2 move interchange. First move brings UBL or DFR out of it's spot and replaces it with the third corner to be twisted, second move places the piece you brought out into the opposite corner (UBL or DFR). For example twisting UBL, UFL and DFR would be [R U R' U' R U R' U', L' D2]. I think that could be faster than the sune and U-perm, which seems to require some AUF moves as well. But you need to be careful when twisting 3 corners with this one, it twists in different directions depending on which direction you do the interchange (if you use R U R' U', UBL travels to UFR = clockwise, UFR travels to UBL = counterclockwise).



Sergeant Baboon said:


> I've been using Y and Z for twists and flips. YF means twist the RFU corner clockwise, ZF is counter-clockwise, and either can mean a flipped edge. It's probably not efficient but it fits into the Journey Method so it works just fine for MBLD. Also, since you use two letters for a single twist or flip, you can still identify parity by an odd letter at the end of your memo.


Nice idea, I'll try this! Y is already in use, but I could use D, which isn't used yet as it's on both my corner and edge buffer.


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## newtonbase (Nov 25, 2015)

JanW said:


> Thank you!
> 
> What kind of system do people usually use to spot and memo flipped pieces? So far I've just looked briefly over the cube at end of memo to see if there are any pieces that need flipping, then memorized the location visually (location of piece for edges and location of white/yellow sticker on corners that need flipping), but obviously this is not working very well. Sometimes I don't notice them in inspection, and when I do notice them I often forget to execute them, because they are not a part of the list of words/syllables in my memo.



I use 2 targets for corners but for edges I use a double letter so for RB, using Spefzz, it could be TiT or NuN but I'm inconsistent about putting it in my memo and I often don't even spot them.


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## h2f (Nov 25, 2015)

JanW said:


> Great trick!



I think a lot of blinders use it, but I dont know any english tutorial about it. I've learnt it from Maskow's tutorial. And I know Jałocha and Zalewski used sune/antisune Uperm for 3 corners on top*, and if they are on bottom Jałocha used: R U R' U' R U R' D R U' R' U R U' R' or for 3 corners (very rare!) 2*(R U R' U')D' 2*(R U R' U')D' 2*(R U R' U') D2. Etc. Theres a lot combinations as you mentioned. 

I have a blog where a put some stuff about speedsolving, photos etc. It's in Polish but I think photos dont need to be translated. Here are few photos from Gdańsk Rubik's Cube Day. Just click in the first and you can see them all in bigger size.

Edit: *Zalewski's algs: 
R U2 R' U' R U' R' U2 R' U2 R U R' U R U2, 
R U R' U R U2 R' U2 R' U' R U' R' U2 R U2 
R U2 R' U2 R' U' R U R U' R' U2 R' U2 R U'


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## Jason Green (Nov 25, 2015)

h2f said:


> I think a lot of blinders use it, but I dont know any english tutorial about it. I've learnt it from Maskow's tutorial. And I know Jałocha and Zalewski used sune/antisune Uperm for 3 corners on top*, and if they are on bottom Jałocha used: R U R' U' R U R' D R U' R' U R U' R' or for 3 corners (very rare!) 2*(R U R' U')D' 2*(R U R' U')D' 2*(R U R' U') D2. Etc. Theres a lot combinations as you mentioned.
> 
> I have a blog where a put some stuff about speedsolving, photos etc. It's in Polish but I think photos dont need to be translated. Here are few photos from Gdańsk Rubik's Cube Day. Just click in the first and you can see them all in bigger size.
> 
> ...


Google did a decent job of translating it to English on my phone.


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## h2f (Nov 25, 2015)

Jason Green said:


> Google did a decent job of translating it to English on my phone.



Must be funny. I wonder how it did translate the sentece: "Przyszli mistrzowie?" I meant: masters in the future? But you can also translate it: masters came? or did the masters came?


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## muchacho (Nov 25, 2015)

I don't know if any of this algs are good and useful to twist corners and new to someone... just in case:http://renslay.byethost11.com/preorient.html


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## muchacho (Nov 25, 2015)

h2f said:


> Must be funny. I wonder how it did translate the sentece: "Przyszli mistrzowie?" I meant: masters in the future? But you can also translate it: masters came? or did the masters came?


Like this:
Future champions? 


...not bad.


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## JanW (Nov 25, 2015)

h2f said:


> Edit: *Zalewski's algs:
> R U2 R' U' R U' R' U2 R' U2 R U R' U R U2,
> R U R' U R U2 R' U2 R' U' R U' R' U2 R U2


Those are the ones I've been using so far. Antisune-U2-back antisune-U2 and sune-U2-back sune-U2. I've used them in regular solving already before learning blind, those are very easy ZBLL cases to recognize when they come up.


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## muchacho (Nov 25, 2015)

This:
Rozmowy w przerwie FMa

is this?
Talks break Football Manager 


It's a break during FMC, right? (and not a break to talk about Football Manager)


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## h2f (Nov 25, 2015)

muchacho said:


> Like this:
> Future champions?
> 
> 
> ...not bad.



Yes, future champions? My english is so bad...  



muchacho said:


> This:
> Rozmowy w przerwie FMa
> 
> is this?
> ...



 Yeah. I love google transaltor. Your intiuition is right: there was a break between rounds of FMC and we were talking about it.


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## muchacho (Nov 25, 2015)

Solved edges with M2 for the first time (with eyes open, writing the memo and with a cheat sheet for some algs), I needed several tries for the same scramble but finally got it. First time I wrote wrong one letter, then I saw too late that I should have executed FU instead of BD, next I realized I forgot to close a cycle, next I messed a setup move. I think the fifth try was the good one. I then did it again and timed the execution, almost 3 minutes. Then I tried to do the memo part right, even after having solved it several times it took me 3 minutes to go through the pieces and remember all.

Scramble:
R2 F2 L2 U' L2 R2 D' R2 U2 B2 U' L B' F D' B L R U2 F2

Memo (not Speffz): FT VC AC NL NR KS E!
Remembered as "I kicked a cow to Holland, NR almost, Oh!" (translated from Spanglish "FooT VaCa hACia NL, NR KaSi, Eh!")


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## h2f (Nov 25, 2015)

muchacho said:


> Solved edges with M2 for the first time (with eyes open, writing the memo and with a cheat sheet for some algs), I needed several tries for the same scramble but finally got it. First time I wrote wrong one letter, then I saw too late that I should have executed FU instead of BD, next I realized I forgot to close a cycle, next I messed a setup move. I think the fifth try was the good one. I then did it again and timed the execution, almost 3 minutes. Then I tried to do the memo part right, even after having solved it several times it took me 3 minutes to go through the pieces and remember all.
> 
> Scramble:
> R2 F2 L2 U' L2 R2 D' R2 U2 B2 U' L B' F D' B L R U2 F2
> ...



Single E in the end means you got flip? 

Congrats. With every scramble there will be easier and easier...


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## muchacho (Nov 25, 2015)

Lettering scheme I'm using for edges (I use numbers for corners):

UF (A)
FU (B)

UR (C)
RU (Ch)

UB (D)
BU (E)

UL (F)
LU (G)

FR (H)
RF (I)

RB (J)
BR (K)

BL (L)
LB (M)

LF (N)
FL (O)

FD (P)
DF (Q)

RD (R)
DR (S)

BD (T)
DB (U)

LD (V)
DL (Z)

Q was not a good letter but P was ok, maybe I should have used it.


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## muchacho (Nov 25, 2015)

h2f said:


> Single E in the end means you got flip?
> 
> Congrats. With every scramble there will be easier and easier...


Yeah, it was a flip, I've already learned the alg for that.

For remembering flips maybe I could use P (that one is in the buffer), like EP, or maybe doubling the letter like EE?

I hope scrambles are easier than this, 2 cycle breaks and a flip, is that normal?


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## JanW (Nov 25, 2015)

muchacho said:


> Solved edges with M2 for the first time (with eyes open, writing the memo and with a cheat sheet for some algs), I needed several tries for the same scramble but finally got it. First time I wrote wrong one letter, then I saw too late that I should have executed FU instead of BD, next I realized I forgot to close a cycle, next I messed a setup move. I think the fifth try was the good one. I then did it again and timed the execution, almost 3 minutes. Then I tried to do the memo part right, even after having solved it several times it took me 3 minutes to go through the pieces and remember all.


Well done! It will get easier very quickly with practice. The first time you have to figure out every single case, but soon you will start seeing patterns and noticing how many similar cases are done in the same way.



muchacho said:


> I hope scrambles are easier than this, 2 cycle breaks and a flip, is that normal?


It happens, I think 1-2 cycle breaks are the most common cases. But this is just based on feel, I'm sure the exact numbers are out there somewhere.


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## moralsh (Nov 25, 2015)

For corner twists I usually remember the color of the side I have to do right hand sune- left hand sune if it is adjacent to the buffer and 1 move set up + color if not adjacent, if I'm not sure what to do right ahead, I just memorize the two targets and carry on. That is also what I do in multi. 

If there are various corner twists and they are correctly unoriented (for RSune-LSune) I memorize it visually and perform it first.

I'm gonna look at the algs posted, they might improve my speed.

On a somehow related matter Apdrf told me yesterday that I do strange setups for some M2 cases, How do you guys set up for LU and LF?


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## RicardoRix (Nov 25, 2015)

moralsh said:


> On a somehow related matter Apdrf told me yesterday that I do strange setups for some M2 cases, How do you guys set up for LU and LF?



LU (E): B L' B' M2 B L B'
LF (F): B L2 B' M2 B L2 B'


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## Logiqx (Nov 25, 2015)

JanW said:


> Those are the ones I've been using so far. Antisune-U2-back antisune-U2 and sune-U2-back sune-U2. I've used them in regular solving already before learning blind, those are very easy ZBLL cases to recognize when they come up.



1/486 solves if my maths is correct. 

Edit: Assuming you use full edge control or a method which pre-orients edges... up to 8 times less often (1/3888) if you only use partial edge control.


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## JanW (Nov 25, 2015)

Logiqx said:


> 1/486 solves if my maths is correct.
> 
> Edit: Assuming you use full edge control or a method which pre-orients edges... up to 8 times less often (1/3888) if you only use partial edge control.


I still do CPEOLL, so more like 1/85. 

Had 2 succesfull blind solves today in about 10 solves. Progress!  In addition there was 2 that I almost count as successes. One scramble had three twisted corners, one clockwise and two counterclockwise. It was the first time I encountered this, so took me a while to get my head around how to deal with it. Then I realized that I could do a L2 setup to a Pi-case, and I happen to know the alg for solving that without affecting edges (working on learning the 12 pi-cases with EP right now). The solve otherwise went fine, but I forgot that my Pi-alg doesn't take care of AUF, so it was off by one U move when I undid the L2 setup. Another solve was perfectly executed, except that I was holding the cube with orange face towards me instead of red all the time, so in the end it was solved around the wrong centers with dots on the R, F, L and B layers. I think I mentioned earlier that I have problems recognizing the colors on the TangLong...


----------



## Logiqx (Nov 25, 2015)

JanW said:


> I still do CPEOLL, so more like 1/85.



Ah. I'd had forgotten that you use CPEOLL + 2GLL as your standard LL approach. Most of the 2GLL cases have a probability of 1/81.

You obviously see the pure OCLL cases a lot more often than the rest of us on this thread. They look kinda nice... lol.


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## Rastinha (Nov 26, 2015)

I haven't had enough time to work on BLD since I started, I wanted to learn it really quickly but I'm a teacher and it's almost the end of the school year here so that means marking, reports etc.etc. And no fun, haha.

I have managed to learn how to do it and that scramBLD site has been awesome for learning how to memo properly. It's no effort at all for me to memorize the letters, but I am *so slow* at working out the letters, haha. So my memo time is probably 10mins although I have only timed one when I was unwell so my brain wasn't working well. Execution time for my first couple of attempts (I have only tried solving it maybe 3 times) were 6mins then 4mins, because I still have to think about each set up move for a bit too long, and the W, I, S and C edges always get me a bit stumped. I also take too long to decide on words for the letter pairs, but I've started logging them in that letter pairs program so I can practice.

The good news is I have plenty to work on and can actually do the whole process from start to finish now! Not sure is I'll be ready for competition by the 6th of December though! It's fun doing BLD


----------



## chtiger (Nov 26, 2015)

Funny blind session today. Was practicing advanced M2, first solve was 2:31.88 which is my best M2 time, but then DNF(3:00.52) and 4:41.00, so I got annoyed and switched to OP edges and got a PB 2:14.96. The universe doesn't want me to switch to M2.

It was mentioned a while back that if you have targets BD-x (x is any target not on M slice), then you can solve as M2, setup x, M', undo x, M'. It's easy to see the similar algs for FU-x, x-BD, and x-FU. But is their any shortcuts for when both targets are on M-slice? Epecially BD-FU or FU-BD. 
Edit: now I see you can move BD to BL or BR and FU to RU or LU. That's 18 moves instead of 22, so thats a little better
Edit again: Ohhh, for BD-FU you can setup FU to RU and do the trick for BD-RU. 11 moves, much better. Just forget I was here


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## mark49152 (Nov 26, 2015)

chtiger said:


> It was mentioned a while back that if you have targets BD-x (x is any target not on M slice), then you can solve as M2, setup x, M', undo x, M'. It's easy to see the similar algs for FU-x, x-BD, and x-FU. But is their any shortcuts for when both targets are on M-slice? Epecially BD-FU or FU-BD.
> Edit: now I see you can move BD to BL or BR and FU to RU or LU. That's 18 moves instead of 22, so thats a little better
> Edit again: Ohhh, for BD-FU you can setup FU to RU and do the trick for BD-RU. 11 moves, much better. Just forget I was here


Do an x rotation, then the alg for solving FU alone, but without the trailing M2. That will solve FU-BD. Similarly for BD-FU.


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## h2f (Nov 26, 2015)

mark49152 said:


> Do an x rotation, then the alg for solving FU alone, but without the trailing M2. That will solve FU-BD. Similarly for BD-FU.



Thats a very nice trick!

After few days of break I've made few 3bld solves. After few dnfs I just did 1:14.8. But I'm not sure if I will count it as PB, because it was miscramble. I had 12 edge targets (one breaking into new cycle) but only 4 for corners, so it was easy... Anyway I'm surprised...


----------



## JanW (Nov 26, 2015)

h2f said:


> After few days of break I've made few 3bld solves. After few dnfs I just did 1:14.8. But I'm not sure if I will count it as PB, because it was miscramble. I had 12 edge targets (one breaking into new cycle) but only 4 for corners, so it was easy... Anyway I'm surprised...


Nice! I still have quite a bit of catching up to do. PB so far is 4:21.96.

D' B U2 F2 U2 B R D' R F2 U F' D L2 D2 B U' B2 L2 B' R D2 B L D2

Kind of lucky scramble, only one edge cycle required two setup moves, the rest one or none. Parity was also solved without setup moves.


----------



## h2f (Nov 26, 2015)

JanW said:


> Nice! I still have quite a bit of catching up to do. PB so far is 4:21.96.
> 
> D' B U2 F2 U2 B R D' R F2 U F' D L2 D2 B U' B2 L2 B' R D2 B L D2
> 
> Kind of lucky scramble, only one edge cycle required two setup moves, the rest one or none. Parity was also solved without setup moves.



Thanks. I dont know if your scramble is lucky - parity and no solved edge or corner, and you did your PB. Whoa! No luck - just skill. 

On the other hand, I just did 5bld with time 20:54 and sub 10 minutes memo. It would be PB but one tredge was flipped. Didnt notice it. Happens!


----------



## JanW (Nov 26, 2015)

Well, with less than 10 successful solves under the belt, it's still quite easy to do a PB. I've probably screwed up all the easiest scrambles so far...


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## mark49152 (Nov 26, 2015)

h2f said:


> On the other hand, I just did 5bld with time 20:54 and sub 10 minutes memo. It would be PB but one tredge was flipped. Didnt notice it. Happens!


Hey that's awesome, and fast too. 5BLD is hard!


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## h2f (Nov 26, 2015)

mark49152 said:


> Hey that's awesome, and fast too. 5BLD is hard!



Yes, it is thats why i try not to focus what kind of mistake I did. Even if it's the simplest one. BTW I have a good day for solves - I did twice 4bld, with almost the same times 9:28 and 9:26. And now I've done PB in 4x4 - first sub 1 solve: 58.08. Just a lucky, good solve - fast edges and centers, nice pairing and good 3x3 stage.



Spoiler



scramble 
Rw2 B2 F2 Fw' L R F2 L Uw L' D2 Fw B2 D Uw' L B' L' Fw' B' U' L' Rw' D Fw' Uw' L2 R' F' Uw2 U' D R' Fw' F2 Uw' D Fw L2 B'


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## muchacho (Nov 26, 2015)

Someone learning CMLL? I've just released my CMLL trainer (that it does not work for now on phones and tablets).

http://alejos.org/cmll-trainer.php

https://www.speedsolving.com/forum/showthread.php?56070-Web-CMLL-Trainer


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## h2f (Nov 26, 2015)

Looks fine! It's very usefull tool...


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## newtonbase (Nov 27, 2015)

I've managed to get a bit of time to myself this evening so have been working on edge comms for the M slice. There are surprisingly few resources especially for DF buffer. I could only find 2 lists. Another hour or so should be enough for a decent list then the hard work of learning it starts. I'll post it so those interested can help me improve it when I'm done.


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## MarcelP (Nov 27, 2015)

muchacho said:


> Someone learning CMLL? I've just released my CMLL trainer (that it does not work for now on phones and tablets).
> 
> http://alejos.org/cmll-trainer.php
> 
> https://www.speedsolving.com/forum/showthread.php?56070-Web-CMLL-Trainer



Another skilled web guru I see


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## muchacho (Nov 27, 2015)

Thanks both!

More like a not-that-skilled web guru from the last decade


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## mafergut (Nov 27, 2015)

muchacho said:


> Thanks both!
> 
> More like a not-that-skilled web guru from the last decade



Much more skilled than most. That trainer looks good! I will definitely use it when I finally come to CMLL in my long TO DO list.


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## muchacho (Nov 27, 2015)

New PBs

Ao5: 25.257 (was 25.598)
Ao12: 27.044 (was 27.237)

Now it's time to finally try to learn another CMLL set, I think I'll do slow solves and stop timing for a week (and finish to learn M2).



mafergut said:


> Much more skilled than most. That trainer looks good! I will definitely use it when I finally come to CMLL in my long TO DO list.


Thanks! (but I should try to learn modern tricks)


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## h2f (Nov 27, 2015)

muchacho said:


> New PBs
> 
> Ao5: 25.257 (was 25.598)
> Ao12: 27.044 (was 27.237)
> ...



Nice! I was trying your cmll trainer and told myself: if i'm sub 20 with cfop I will practice roux again.  Now Im back to practicing 4x4. I havent done it for few months and finally broke sub 1:20 barrier in AO12 - 1:17.94. Now it's time for AO50 and 100.


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## muchacho (Nov 27, 2015)

Great!

Why the improvement in 4x4 after months of not practicing it? That's both cool and weird.

I'll get into 4x4 and 5x5 some day, not bigger than that because I'll use Roux to solve the last part.


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## h2f (Nov 27, 2015)

I wasnt practicing it beacause I've focused on other events. And cutoffs were so low (1:00) that I knew I wouldnt pass it. But my normal average was around 1:30.


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## mafergut (Nov 27, 2015)

Wow! Nice. I wish my 4x4 was progressing without practicing as well but no luck.


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## newtonbase (Nov 27, 2015)

I'd be good at everything if not practising worked.


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## Logiqx (Nov 27, 2015)

h2f said:


> if i'm sub 20 with cfop I will practice roux again.



I've not been cubing much recently (some days not even touching a cube) but I have started to play with Roux again.

I'm currently averaging about 36s but some parts of my solve suck big time... mainly my L6E. I might learn CMLL as well because I find it so repetitive using 2-looks!

There is plenty of scope for impRouxvment so I'm going to keep practicing.


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## h2f (Nov 28, 2015)

I did few roux solves yesterday - still around 30. Roux solves give me so much fun. But first sub 20!


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## muchacho (Nov 28, 2015)

h2f said:


> I did few roux solves yesterday - still around 30. Roux solves give me so much fun. But first sub 20!



Do you use CMLL? if so, no problem remembering them after some time not practicing Roux?


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## muchacho (Nov 28, 2015)

Logiqx said:


> I've not been cubing much recently (some days not even touching a cube) but I have started to play with Roux again.
> 
> I'm currently averaging about 36s but some parts of my solve suck big time... mainly my L6E. I might learn CMLL as well because I find it so repetitive using 2-looks!
> 
> There is plenty of scope for impRouxvment so I'm going to keep practicing.



Great, maybe Marcel could also try again Roux if he is bored of CFOP


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## h2f (Nov 28, 2015)

muchacho said:


> Do you use CMLL? if so, no problem remembering them after some time not practicing Roux?



Yes. I dont remeber them all at the moment, but few of them yes. And after practicing cmlls I've noticed I look at the patterns when I do OLLs and sometimes I use COLLs (some of my cmlls were colls) to create EPLL. It was worth learing though I was weak at it - cmlls took me even 8 seconds (recognition and execution).

Back to 5bld - another fail with filpped edge. The same edge, which I've noticed this time, but I didn't notice it is filpped. I suck.


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## MarcelP (Nov 28, 2015)

muchacho said:


> Great, maybe Marcel could also try again Roux if he is bored of CFOP



I just did two solves.. 1) 27.04 2) 54.78 LOL.. Roux does not come natural to me.. I like Roux a lot. I might switch again. I was sub 30 in 3 months about a year ago. I think I will be around 35 secs now. The problem is I hardly do not practise at all. I recieved the MoFang Ge Square-1. It is on my bucket list t learn that also.. I want to get into BLD etc etc LOL..


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## JanW (Nov 28, 2015)

I got inspired yesterday and made myself a little tool for training 3-cycles.



Start with a solved cube, the software gives the letterpair for a random 3-cycle and starts a timer. Solve the cycle with any method of your choice and hit spacebar to stop timer. The software will show your time and update the cube to show what it should look like if the cycle was solved correctly. For the next cycle continue from that state of the cube (or reset if 3-cycle was badly screwed up). It should work for OP and M2 solvers as well.

Is there some similar software already out there, or should I continue making this a bit more customizable and share it?

So far I've added the option to select any stickers as buffers, but if I want to share this, it should also allow for different letter schemes. Speffz is the most common, right? Are there any other standard letter schemes that I should put in there as default options? Then there should probably also be some option for making and saving custom letter schemes and it should support different cube rotations (not that it matters much as you are supposed to solve blind anyway). I've already thought of a ton of other things I could put in there to improve it, but it might take some time. Anything specific you can think of that would enhance a software like this?

When I first tried this out, I was totally surprised by how fast I was, but then I realized that the VB timer is useless and ticks too slowly. Now it uses the system clock for timing and my times are not that flattering anymore.


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## Jason Green (Nov 28, 2015)

JanW said:


> I got inspired yesterday and made myself a little tool for training 3-cycles.
> 
> View attachment 5689
> 
> ...


I love .NET, have you done any C#? That's what most of my career has been.


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## JanW (Nov 28, 2015)

Jason Green said:


> I love .NET, have you done any C#? That's what most of my career has been.


Last time I wrote code was about 15 years ago, that was mainly Java. This was my first experience with Visual Studio, and I think I've run into a small problem... I lost all the code!!! I changed the directory of the build output and built a release version. Then I noticed it was still wrong location so I deleted that directory and when I opened up visual studio again, it can't find my .vb file, which it is looking for in the build directory which was deleted. Apparently I must have used shift+del to delete the directory, because there is nothing in my recycle bin. I ran file recovery software which could find some of the deleted files, but no .vb file. Visual Studio backup files folder is empty, because someone has apparently thought it's a good idea to delete all those whenever a project is saved.

I still have a working executable in the project/bin folder and the project folder also has all kinds of other files, like .snl, .vbproj, .pdb, applicationdesigner.vb and such, but the main .vb file is nowhere to be found. No idea what to do now. I tried some decompilers on the exe, they can get the basic structure of the code, but apparently not the code itself. I could rewrite the whole thing, should be faster than the first time around as all the thinking is done (and also no need to constantly refer to youtube tutorials anymore). But still, that thought is not very tempting right now.


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## Jason Green (Nov 28, 2015)

That stinks! I don't know why the file would be in the build directory, but who knows with VB.  yeah you might try .NET Reflector to decompile the code, but I'm not sure how readable it will be. I've only used it for play a couple times. 

I'm technically a software manager now, but I still code about 25% of the time.


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## newtonbase (Nov 28, 2015)

2 cubes in one breath puts me within 1000% of the UWR which is my usual target.


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## JanW (Nov 28, 2015)

Jason Green said:


> That stinks! I don't know why the file would be in the build directory, but who knows with VB.  yeah you might try .NET Reflector to decompile the code, but I'm not sure how readable it will be. I've only used it for play a couple times.


Yeah, something strange is going on. I tried replicating this with a test project, but couldn't. There is an option to copy .vb file to build directory (which I hadn't checked to my knowledge), but even with that checked it still leaves a copy in the original project folder. All I know is that the .vb file does not exist anywhere on my hard drive and the file recovery software, which found thousands of files deleted within the last year, could not find any trace of those files either. It's like the files were never deleted, but vanished in some other way.



Jason Green said:


> I'm technically a software manager now, but I still code about 25% of the time.


Coding is kind of fun.  And apparently a bit like riding a bike. Even after 15 years it was surprisingly fast to get the hang of it.


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## Jason Green (Nov 28, 2015)

Is it possible you never saved it? I don't think, I'm probably proving that I'm a manager here. [emoji14] I think there is an ability to create a temp project without actually saving it, but can't remember if you can build it even. 

I said after 2 years of C++ going to .NET was a negative learning curve. The libraries are so robust and easy you can pretty much guess what class you need to do most stuff (I guess good naming helps too).

Edit: I was right! 
https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/zfzh36t7.aspx


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## JanW (Nov 28, 2015)

Haha, nope, not possible. Did most of it yesterday, turned off computer for the night and continued today. And throughout the day I had VS shut down several times and reloaded when I opened again. I don't remember exactly what I did just before it disappeared. I did try to rename the project, which wasn't as simple as in most other programs... Maybe I somehow accidentally found the secret self-destruct button.


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## EvilGnome6 (Nov 30, 2015)

I got a 2:13.84 on 5x5 in this week's Sunday Single attempt. It's a hair better than last time. I'm looking forward to the day I post my first sub-2 5x5 on this series. I know I can do it. I just need to eliminate a few of those pauses while searching for pieces and I'm there.

Cube used was a YuXin 5x5 which I have made my new main.


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## Jason Green (Nov 30, 2015)

*My first resticker - Gans 356*

My boys and I resickered my Gans 356 today. It turned out pretty nice.

The original stickers on the Gans seemed easier to tear than they should have. The stickers today are just the second set it came with, so I do not know if they will be similar. Are the stickers you can buy from the cubicle a lot better? The first set was strange, it was like the first day I was using it they felt very rough and pokey edges. The new ones seem better so far.


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## EvilGnome6 (Nov 30, 2015)

Jason Green said:


> The original stickers on the Gans seemed easier to tear than they should have. The stickers today are just the second set it came with, so I do not know if they will be similar. Are the stickers you can buy from the cubicle a lot better? The first set was strange, it was like the first day I was using it they felt very rough and pokey edges. The new ones seem better so far.



TheCubicle stickers are nice but the fluro colors are more durable than the standard ones. The standard red and white tend to get beat up pretty quick.

Sticker removal tip: If you have a guitar pick and a nail file, you can hone the tip of the pick with the file. Just sharpen it like a knife blade at the angle you would use to scrape off the stickers. It makes an excellent sticker peeler and won't mar the cube.


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## Jason Green (Nov 30, 2015)

EvilGnome6 said:


> TheCubicle stickers are nice but the fluro colors are more durable than the standard ones. The standard red and white tend to get beat up pretty quick.
> 
> Sticker removal tip: If you have a guitar pick and a nail file, you can hone the tip of the pick with the file. Just sharpen it like a knife blade at the angle you would use to scrape off the stickers. It makes an excellent sticker peeler and won't mar the cube.


Thanks, yeah after doing this I felt dumb for not getting some kind of plastic. Thankfully I didn't jack it up too bad.


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## MarcelP (Nov 30, 2015)

Jason Green said:


> My boys and I resickered my Gans 356 today. It turned out pretty nice.
> 
> The original stickers on the Gans seemed easier to tear than they should have. The stickers today are just the second set it came with, so I do not know if they will be similar. Are the stickers you can buy from the cubicle a lot better? The first set was strange, it was like the first day I was using it they felt very rough and pokey edges. The new ones seem better so far.



I loved the out-tro of your little boy 

I order my stickers from thecublice.us. They are very robust. My Gans has had them for many thousand solves and they still have not chipped. Also the shades that I use http://thecubicle.us/stickers_user.php?cid=5664 are way cooler  I have this plastic razorblade from Cubicle (they sell for 0.50 dollar of so). It is a breeze to take the stickers of with that.


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## Jason Green (Nov 30, 2015)

MarcelP said:


> I loved the out-tro of your little boy
> 
> I order my stickers from thecublice.us. They are very robust. My Gans has had them for many thousand solves and they still have not chipped. Also the shades that I use http://thecubicle.us/stickers_user.php?cid=5664 are way cooler  I have this plastic razorblade from Cubicle (they sell for 0.50 dollar of so). It is a breeze to take the stickers of with that.


Thanks I'll tell him. He likes to watch toy videos on YouTube, and I'll here him do the "thanks for watching please subscribe" when he's just playing. 

I was hoping you would answer about the stickers... I may have to order your colors and try them out. I think we have similar cube tastes (based mainly on I love my Gans)! My new ones feel a lot better still after a couple hundred solves today, but I already notice one or two tiny edge tears.


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## mafergut (Nov 30, 2015)

MarcelP said:


> I loved the out-tro of your little boy
> 
> I order my stickers from thecublice.us. They are very robust. My Gans has had them for many thousand solves and they still have not chipped. Also the shades that I use http://thecubicle.us/stickers_user.php?cid=5664 are way cooler  I have this plastic razorblade from Cubicle (they sell for 0.50 dollar of so). It is a breeze to take the stickers of with that.



It's almost fluro-everything. You're only missing fluro-blue, which is a bit light for my taste. The only difference with my scheme is that I use regular red and it chips A LOT! Maybe I'll use fluro red next time.



Jason Green said:


> My boys and I resickered my Gans 356 today. It turned out pretty nice.
> 
> The original stickers on the Gans seemed easier to tear than they should have. The stickers today are just the second set it came with, so I do not know if they will be similar. Are the stickers you can buy from the cubicle a lot better? The first set was strange, it was like the first day I was using it they felt very rough and pokey edges. The new ones seem better so far.



For this to be your 1st ever re-sticker you have done a great job. Did you find it easy to use application tape? I always put the stickers one by one with a cutter or knife because I'm worried I will put the whole side incorrectly misaligned with the tape but it looks like yours were very nicely aligned.


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## muchacho (Nov 30, 2015)

For sticker removal (and applying) I use this:







It's a broken plastic propeller, it's ergonomic and costs nothing, I would just need to crash my tricopter once more to make more of these, and that's easy


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## muchacho (Nov 30, 2015)

And my nails also work just fine to remove stickers, that's because they are usually a bit long (and that's the reason my stickers are already not in good shape). Mines are worst than the ones you have just replaced, and I won't change them until they are way way worst than that (or I'll go broke buying stickers), I should start to cut my nails more frequently.

Great out-tro haha


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## mafergut (Nov 30, 2015)

muchacho said:


> For sticker removal (and applying) I use this:
> 
> http://im0.org/al/sticker-peeler-applier.jpg
> 
> It's a broken plastic propeller, it's ergonomic and costs nothing, I would just need to crash my tricopter once more to make more of these, and that's easy



I just bought a plastic razor blade from The Cubicle for $0.50, much cheaper than crashing my R/C heli.


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## muchacho (Nov 30, 2015)

Never broken a prop?


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## h2f (Nov 30, 2015)

I just use knife. Both for taking out stickers and sticking. In Polland most cubers buy stickers from Michał "Józek" Halczuk. He makes very good stickers in few patterns and they are cheap. 

I have a small problem with my stickers on Aosu. I dont know why they just pull up. Especially on few pieces. I dont have that problem with any of my cube except this one. I think there must be something on the surface of the block... But what??

BTW I keep improving in 4x4. I got cold and took day off, so I've made some solves today and my ao50 (with yesterday's solves) is now sub 1:20.


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## mark49152 (Nov 30, 2015)

h2f said:


> BTW I keep improving in 4x4. I got cold and took day off, so I've made some solves today and my ao50 (with yesterday's solves) is now sub 1:20.


Hey I also got sick last week and had some time off, and did a few 5x5 solves. I have done nothing but 5x5 for a couple of weeks now (except a few 4BLDs) as I'm determined to make the UK soft cut. Yesterday I got an ao12 of 2:35 so I am getting closer! Three of those solves were sub-cut. If I make it to the WTC comp in 3 weeks, that's my main goal.

Haven't done any proper 3x3 or 4x4 practice for 1-2 months now.


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## h2f (Nov 30, 2015)

Wow. That's fine. What method do you use? I do reduction on M slice but I think about switching to Hoya or Yau5...


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## EvilGnome6 (Nov 30, 2015)

MarcelP said:


> Also the shades that I use http://thecubicle.us/stickers_user.php?cid=5664 are way cooler



Those are almost as cool as my shades. 

http://thecubicle.us/stickers_share.php?public_id=27036


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## Jason Green (Nov 30, 2015)

I found the tape pretty easy to use. It would be even easier if it was a bigger piece I think, like the video on the cubicle showed. This piece came with the Gans. 

I tried to set down gently enough to be able to lift up if it was misaligned. Once I did that. But another time I started to and the sticker was stuck pretty well so I left it. It turned out pretty good though. 

I think there is an invention that needs to be made for aligning the tape to apply.


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## mark49152 (Nov 30, 2015)

h2f said:


> Wow. That's fine. What method do you use? I do reduction on M slice but I think about switching to Hoya or Yau5...


I use my own Hoya variant. It sacrifices a little move efficiency for easier look ahead and finding of pieces.

After the cross is done and I hide the DB tredge (F' R') to fix the L2C, I solve another tredge in DB Hoya-style then hide that with F L. Then fix L2C. Then I solve L7E before restoring the cross. The advantage of this is that the back two slots are filled so all the L7E are in visible positions for good lookahead. I use AvG for edge pairing.

Have a look in the 5x5 edges efficiency thread for a reconstruction.


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## EvilGnome6 (Nov 30, 2015)

I'm running a contest on 99 Designs to create a logo for AZCubing, my Arizona Speedcubing club. I'm down to the final 8 designs and once I pick the winner, I can work with the designer to make some final refinements so feel free to leave a comment.

http://99designs.com/logo-design/vote-cknp5c


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## MarcelP (Nov 30, 2015)

mafergut said:


> It's almost fluro-everything. You're only missing fluro-blue, which is a bit light for my taste. The only difference with my scheme is that I use regular red and it chips A LOT! Maybe I'll use fluro red next time.



The sky blue is 100% as the MoYu shades. I and really like that. It contrasts very well with fluo green. Fluo Red and Fluo orange also have great contrast. On white cubes I can settle with normal red but on black cubes that is just too dark and messes up my recognition. I saw that Chris Olson uses pink instead of red. That looked like a great contrast too...



EvilGnome6 said:


> Those are almost as cool as my shades.
> 
> http://thecubicle.us/stickers_share.php?public_id=27036



I might have to try your bright yellow one time.


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## EvilGnome6 (Nov 30, 2015)

MarcelP said:


> I might have to try your bright yellow one time.



I was getting the fluro yellow and white mixed up in poor lighting and the bright yellow has a bit more contrast. Unfortunately, it's a bit closer to the orange but still better for me overall.


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## muchacho (Nov 30, 2015)

EvilGnome6 said:


> I'm running a contest on 99 Designs to create a logo for AZCubing, my Arizona Speedcubing club. I'm down to the final 8 designs and once I pick the winner, I can work with the designer to make some final refinements so feel free to leave a comment.
> 
> http://99designs.com/logo-design/vote-cknp5c


Voted!


Spoiler



#18 for me


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## MarcelP (Nov 30, 2015)

EvilGnome6 said:


> I'm running a contest on 99 Designs to create a logo for AZCubing, my Arizona Speedcubing club. I'm down to the final 8 designs and once I pick the winner, I can work with the designer to make some final refinements so feel free to leave a comment.
> 
> http://99designs.com/logo-design/vote-cknp5c


I voted 5 stars on one


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## h2f (Nov 30, 2015)

mark49152 said:


> I use my own Hoya variant. It sacrifices a little move efficiency for easier look ahead and finding of pieces.
> 
> After the cross is done and I hide the DB tredge (F' R') to fix the L2C, I solve another tredge in DB Hoya-style then hide that with F L. Then fix L2C. Then I solve L7E before restoring the cross. The advantage of this is that the back two slots are filled so all the L7E are in visible positions for good lookahead. I use AvG for edge pairing.
> 
> Have a look in the 5x5 edges efficiency thread for a reconstruction.



It's very clever. I used Hoya on 5x5 and 6x6 some time ago, but gave up.


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## EvilGnome6 (Nov 30, 2015)

MarcelP said:


> I voted 5 stars on one


Thanks. [emoji106]


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## mark49152 (Nov 30, 2015)

h2f said:


> I used Hoya on 5x5 and 6x6 some time ago, but gave up.


Why did you give up?


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## h2f (Nov 30, 2015)

My times werent going down and after a month my times with pure redubtion were the same. I thought that doing first 3 arms of cross with Hoya is as much hard as doing first 3 tredges with reduction. That's why I've decided to back to reduction. Though my practice wastn hard and I havn't done tons of solves. But when I look at your solves (I think you put some yt movie here) or Mike's (EvilGnom6) I think it's worth to check it again.


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## Chree (Nov 30, 2015)

h2f said:


> My times werent going down and after a month my times with pure redubtion were the same. I thought that doing first 3 arms of cross with Hoya is as much hard as doing first 3 tredges with reduction. That's why I've decided to back to reduction. Though my practice wastn hard and I havn't done tons of solves. But when I look at your solves (I think you put some yt movie here) or Mike's (EvilGnom6) I think it's worth to check it again.



If your first 3 tredges with reduction were always Cross tredges, I can totally see where you're coming from. Recognition won't feel any faster, and then solving will feel less efficient. The payoff for Hoya doesn't start until after L2C.

I'm using Hoya on both 6x6 and 7x7, and have a decent 7x7 solve on my YT channel (4:30.xx). And I hope I can find time to make a video discussing Hoya on BigBig cubes, providing tips for increasing recognition and efficiency. But y'know... life is busy.


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## mark49152 (Nov 30, 2015)

h2f said:


> I thought that doing first 3 arms of cross with Hoya is as much hard as doing first 3 tredges with reduction.


Were you building each tredge in full before moving on? I think the nice thing about Hoya cross is that you don't have to. You just scan the top half of the cube for pieces with your cross colour on them, and insert them one by one to the bottom layer. I just do them in the order I see them and try to keep moving, with no pauses, even if it takes more D moves. Pieces trapped on the bottom get knocked out as you go.


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## biscuit (Nov 30, 2015)

mafergut said:


> It's almost fluro-everything. You're only missing fluro-blue, which is a bit light for my taste. The only difference with my scheme is that I use regular red and it chips A LOT! Maybe I'll use fluro red next time.



I'd watch out about getting fluro red, because of contrast. I don't have a cube with fluro orange and red, but my Hualong has Fluro Orange and Fluro pink, and they don't contrast well.


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## h2f (Nov 30, 2015)

Chree said:


> If your first 3 tredges with reduction were always Cross tredges, I can totally see where you're coming from. Recognition won't feel any faster, and then solving will feel less efficient. The payoff for Hoya doesn't start until after L2C.
> 
> I'm using Hoya on both 6x6 and 7x7, and have a decent 7x7 solve on my YT channel (4:30.xx). And I hope I can find time to make a video discussing Hoya on BigBig cubes, providing tips for increasing recognition and efficiency. But y'know... life is busy.



I've learnt Hoya from your tutorial. This would be great.  



mark49152 said:


> Were you building each tredge in full before moving on? I think the nice thing about Hoya cross is that you don't have to. You just scan the top half of the cube for pieces with your cross colour on them, and insert them one by one to the bottom layer. I just do them in the order I see them and try to keep moving, with no pauses, even if it takes more D moves. Pieces trapped on the bottom get knocked out as you go.



Yes, I did so. It'll be the first thing to correct it.


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## mafergut (Nov 30, 2015)

MarcelP said:


> The sky blue is 100% as the MoYu shades. I and really like that. It contrasts very well with fluo green. Fluo Red and Fluo orange also have great contrast. On white cubes I can settle with normal red but on black cubes that is just too dark and messes up my recognition. I saw that Chris Olson uses pink instead of red. That looked like a great contrast too...
> I might have to try your bright yellow one time.



I have tried fluro pink in 3 cubes that I do not use that much. A blue plastic Zhanchi (it looks great on it), a black Guanlong (I like how it looks but the cube feels so cheap...), a white Aurora, where my recognition is completely messed up (it's my only white cube). I don't seem to have problems with recog just because of the change of red for pink and, as Chris says, it looks cool 



EvilGnome6 said:


> I was getting the fluro yellow and white mixed up in poor lighting and the bright yellow has a bit more contrast. Unfortunately, it's a bit closer to the orange but still better for me overall.



Same problem here with fluro yellow in poor lighting. I will also have to try bright yellow and see if that improves.

Here you have my schemes with red and pink.

And a photo of my Zhanchi:


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## Chree (Nov 30, 2015)

h2f said:


> I've learnt Hoya from your tutorial. This would be great.



Oh man... in that case, I think I should apologize for the quality of some of those earliest videos. I've had some long overdue corrections and retractions 




mark49152 said:


> Were you building each tredge in full before moving on? I think the nice thing about Hoya cross is that you don't have to. You just scan the top half of the cube for pieces with your cross colour on them, and insert them one by one to the bottom layer. I just do them in the order I see them and try to keep moving, with no pauses, even if it takes more D moves. Pieces trapped on the bottom get knocked out as you go.



Mark, I think you were one of the earliest advocates of the whole "lay 'em as you see 'em" approaches. And at the time, I was opposed to that, at least on 4x4. But I gotta admit... I do that on everything 4 thru 7 now. That's an advantage Hoya users have, even over Yau5.


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## mark49152 (Nov 30, 2015)

Chree said:


> Mark, I think you were one of the earliest advocates of the whole "lay 'em as you see 'em" approaches. And at the time, I was opposed to that, at least on 4x4. But I gotta admit... I do that on everything 4 thru 7 now. That's an advantage Hoya users have, even over Yau5.


Yeah Hoya is less efficient anyway so we have to use the lookahead advantage as best we can, IMHO. I'm still slow though, and fast guys might disapprove . One day I might find myself limited by the inefficiency but at least then I'll have a solid foundation to start sneaking in some freeslice.

On another topic, I just slashed 3 mins off my 4BLD PB - 10:49. Nice easy memo, images formed quickly, only one review, no parities. For those interested:-

Centres (audio): EUIF MHSK PXQA LRAT
Edges: NL QT RB DM HV JO GW XI FE IP AC KA
Corners: WF SC KL QU


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## h2f (Nov 30, 2015)

Chree said:


> Oh man... in that case, I think I should apologize for the quality of some of those earliest videos. I've had some long overdue corrections and retractions



 You dont have to. As you can see I never lost interest in Hoya.

Nice time Mark!


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## Chree (Nov 30, 2015)

mark49152 said:


> Yeah Hoya is less efficient anyway so we have to use the lookahead advantage as best we can, IMHO. I'm still slow though, and fast guys might disapprove . One day I might find myself limited by the inefficiency but at least then I'll have a solid foundation to start sneaking in some freeslice.



The only suggestion I might make is that if you're working on a particular tredge... at least TRY to find the rest of it's pieces. Take the world's quickest glance around the cube, just in case there's something on U or F that you can easily insert for that same tredge. And if you can't see anything in that first half a second... yeah... move on.




mark49152 said:


> On another topic, I just slashed 3 mins off my 4BLD PB - 10:49. Nice easy memo, images formed quickly, only one review, no parities. For those interested:-
> 
> Centres (audio): EUIF MHSK PXQA LRAT
> Edges: NL QT RB DM HV JO GW XI FE IP AC KA
> Corners: WF SC KL QU



Nice! Very very nice. That beats the winning time at PDX Cubing Beta.


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## mark49152 (Nov 30, 2015)

Chree said:


> The only suggestion I might make is that if you're working on a particular tredge... at least TRY to find the rest of it's pieces. Take the world's quickest glance around the cube, just in case there's something on U or F that you can easily insert for that same tredge. And if you can't see anything in that first half a second... yeah... move on.


Well, I don't actively look for its other pieces but if I've already seen them, I will solve them before moving on. Then for choosing what to solve next, if I see two pieces of the same colour I will favour those - solve one and keep an eye on the other. Otherwise I will favour the easiest case to solve (3 mover over 7 mover) even if I have to spin a D2 to align its target. The whole thought process is really a lot like F2L. Also, when starting out, I will look for midges first and try to build a whole cross if I can, but at least 3 pieces, reason being that it avoids/reduces the need for slow slice moves later.



Chree said:


> Nice! Very very nice. That beats the winning time at PDX Cubing Beta.


One of the funny things about bigbld and multi is the way you can still win things while being slow/novice. I was delighted to get 2nd prize at UK Champs with my 24 minute solve (4th place, but 2nd fastest Brit), but of course there were much better solvers than me there, so it felt a bit like a "default" and must have added insult to injury for those who DNF'ed. Faster guys have to take risks to get faster times, but if the risk doesn't work out, the slow guy picks up the prize .


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## h2f (Nov 30, 2015)

mark49152 said:


> One of the funny things about bigbld and multi is the way you can still win things while being slow/novice. I was delighted to get 2nd prize at UK Champs with my 24 minute solve (4th place, but 2nd fastest Brit), but of course there were much better solvers than me there, so it felt a bit like a "default" and must have added insult to injury for those who DNF'ed. Faster guys have to take risks to get faster times, but if the risk doesn't work out, the slow guy picks up the prize .



That's the point. I remeber my first medal on comp - I was second in 4bld with time over 21 minutes.  

But it looks like now you're much better than few weeks ago.


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## mark49152 (Dec 1, 2015)

h2f said:


> But it looks like now you're much better than few weeks ago.


My successes are usually around 15-16 mins. Whereas 4BLD used to be a taxing marathon, it now feels much more manageable. I have started doing targeted practice - centres execution sighted, because I'm really slow at it, and also tracing without memo, just like I was advocating for 3BLD. It takes me over 3 mins on average just to find and trace all the cycles! For centres, I use U2 but have learned comms for when one piece is in the U or D face, to avoid the nasty algs. My aim is sub-10 official. Any tips? My execution is about 4:30 but I'm confident I can knock 30s off my centres. So I need to get my trace and memo down to about 5 mins.


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## h2f (Dec 1, 2015)

> Any tips?



Dont ask me. We are almost at the same level. I think you've learnt all you need: U2, some comms and advanced M2 (r2). Just practice. My memo takes me around 5 minutes. Execution around 4:30 like you, but I do centers with 3style. Theres too much thinking how-to-do-it, that's why it takes me so long to make centers. I've never done targeted practice in 4bld - maybe this week I'll do it.


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## Jason Green (Dec 2, 2015)

Woohoo, I didn't choke on my race to sub 30, got 26.49 this week so I will "graduate" to the race to sub 25.  Feeling accomplished hahaha.

Then after I posted this I had the biggest run of sub 25 ever for me, including a new PB Ao5 (I'm pretty sure). It was a good night. You know, yesterday I didn't do any real practice for the first time in ever, maybe the break helped!


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## muchacho (Dec 2, 2015)

Congrats, you are already closer to 25 than to 30!


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## h2f (Dec 2, 2015)

Congrats Jason. Nice ao12. Next step - sub 25! You're almost in!


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## Jason Green (Dec 2, 2015)

Thanks guys!


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## mafergut (Dec 2, 2015)

Jason Green said:


> Woohoo, I didn't choke on my race to sub 30, got 26.49 this week so I will "graduate" to the race to sub 25.  Feeling accomplished hahaha.
> 
> Then after I posted this I had the biggest run of sub 25 ever for me, including a new PB Ao5 (I'm pretty sure). It was a good night. You know, yesterday I didn't do any real practice for the first time in ever, maybe the break helped!
> 
> View attachment 5698



Nice progress Jason!!! GJ! Now go for that sub-25. You're almost there.
In contrast I have failed for two weeks straight to get my sub-20 Ao12 after a 1st week were I managed to get a low 19. But I'm so into 2x2 lately that my 3x3 is suffering a bit. As somebody has recently told me, we older cubers cannot affort to be fast at all cube sizes


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## JanW (Dec 2, 2015)

Congrats Jason, great results! I'll wait until next weekend with doing round 110, will have to get some more practice solves in first.

I haven't done much solving lately, most of my free time has went into rewriting the tool for training 3-cycles. In retrospect, I'd say that if you do a project in an unfamiliar programming language, after not having written any code at all in 15 years, then losing the results of first 2 days of coding isn't that bad. The part I lost I got rewritten in half the time, half the amount of code lines, with much easier code to update and maintain. I could also design it from the start with all the new features in mind that I had thought of while working on the first version. I've already added lots of nice features, like the possibility to do several cycles in one round, the possibility to only train cycles that include a specified sticker, and the possibility to scroll back and see all intermediate stages of the cube since the last reset. I need one more free evening to add support for custom letter schemes and it should be about done. Oh, and this time I'm doing frequent backups to both internal and external storage devices.


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## h2f (Dec 2, 2015)

Mark has made great thread about advanced M2. After reading it I've started to add some comms to my 4bld solves. But at the moment I've lost my 4x4 times (over 300) because of my cat - he jumped on the table, pushed spacebar and stopped the timer. I wanted to delete last time, instead of it I've deleted all of them. I was so close to sub 1:20.


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## SenorJuan (Dec 2, 2015)

Is that a modern version of "My dog ate my homework" ?


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## shadowslice e (Dec 2, 2015)

SenorJuan said:


> Is that a modern version of "My dog ate my homework" ?



*the modern grown up version


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## h2f (Dec 2, 2015)

shadowslice e said:


> *the modern grown up version





SenorJuan said:


> Is that a modern version of "My dog ate my homework" ?



Ha ha, yes!


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## Isaac Lai (Dec 2, 2015)

h2f said:


> Mark has made great thread about advanced M2. After reading it I've started to add some comms to my 4bld solves. But at the moment I've lost my 4x4 times (over 300) because of my cat - he jumped on the table, pushed spacebar and stopped the timer. I wanted to delete last time, instead of it I've deleted all of them. I was so close to sub 1:20.



Something similar happened when I dropped my cube on the keyboard and then pressed the spacebar to confirm the deletion


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## mafergut (Dec 2, 2015)

I have also lost some sessions because of something like that in csTimer.

Nice 3x3 Ao5 in the Weekly comp, by the way, Marcel!


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## mark49152 (Dec 2, 2015)

h2f said:


> Mark has made great thread about advanced M2. After reading it I've started to add some comms to my 4bld solves.


Thanks, glad you found it useful! . Are you talking about edge comms? Some of those M2 tricks don't work for r2 but there are others that are great, like setting up Ufl (and Fdl, Bul) to Ubr for comms. 

By the way, I am nowhere near your level, you made me laugh there. Until two days ago my home PB was 13 mins and you already have a 10 official! 

I've started doing some 5BLD but probably won't compete until I've got official sub-10 4BLD, since 4BLD & 5BLD usually run together and I don't want to steal 40 mins from my 4BLD attempt time until I have met my goals on that.


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## Logiqx (Dec 2, 2015)

h2f said:


> Mark has made great thread about advanced M2. After reading it I've started to add some comms to my 4bld solves. But at the moment I've lost my 4x4 times (over 300) because of my cat - he jumped on the table, pushed spacebar and stopped the timer. I wanted to delete last time, instead of it I've deleted all of them. I was so close to sub 1:20.



I've done that myself in the past. The doorbell rang and when I returned to my cubing, I accidentally deleted the whole session, lol.


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## Lid (Dec 2, 2015)

Finally practice pays of 

5x5x5 PB single & avg5, 2:00.53, 2:02.71, (*1:51.83*), (2:29.50), 1:56.55 = *1:59.93*

Now for sub2 avg12 ... _edit:_ ended up with a 2:06.87 a12, PB also 

Also the QiYi Skewb is pretty nice (got the stickerless version), even thou I never practice it I got a PB avg12 earler today, a half decent 10.14.

*h2f*: just using Sarah beginner.


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## h2f (Dec 2, 2015)

mark49152 said:


> Thanks, glad you found it useful! . Are you talking about edge comms? Some of those M2 tricks don't work for r2 but there are others that are great, like setting up Ufl (and Fdl, Bul) to Ubr for comms.



Yes, edge comms. But Fu- Bd trick works. You thread is big inspiration for me. I've started thinking about back to M2, but decided to stay with turbo. I'll do M2 only in mbld. 



> By the way, I am nowhere near your level, you made me laugh there. Until two days ago my home PB was 13 mins and you already have a 10 official!



 Ha ha. 

But belive me or not you're not far from being sub10. You got everything you need. 

Lid, what method do you use.


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## JanW (Dec 3, 2015)

3BLD Ao5 05:52.02:

06:41.96 (04:38.03)
03:47.47 (01:46.48) DNF
05:40.11 (03:25.59)
05:13.99 (02:18.00)
04:53.21 (02:20.54)

DNF had some mistake with setup moves during corners, I think. The horrible memo times in first and 3rd solve were because I misread something at first and had to go back and relearn different memo later. Too bad, as they had the fastest successful executions. But at least accuracy is getting better!  

I can feel the Sub 4 success coming any time now! Have had quite a few 1:4x memos and some sub 2 minutes executions with easy scrambles.


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## h2f (Dec 3, 2015)

Nice Jan. I've made a break from 3bld - only big blindes and 4x4 in normal.


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## muchacho (Dec 3, 2015)

I've beaten my Ao5 PB in 2x2 4 times in just 10 solves, and also the Ao12 PB. 15 solves in total, I was on fire... but that just lasted 2 minutes, I average low 8.xx.

Ao5 was previously 6.348. Ao12 was 6.792.

15. 5.423 F' U' F R U2 R U R' -> Best Ao5: 5.997
14. 9.846 R2 U2 R' U' F R2 U' R' F2
13. 6.384 F' R' U2 R U2 R' U F R' U'
12. 6.184 F2 R U2 F' U R2 U' R' U -> Best Ao5: 6.042 -> Best Ao12: 6.541
11. 5.312 R F' R F2 U2 R' F U F U' -> Best Ao5: 6.074
10. 5.975 F' U2 R F' U F' R F U' -> Best Ao5: 6.293
9. 5.967 F2 R' U F2 U R U' F'
8. 6.281 F R F' U' F U' R F2 R2 U'
7. 6.623 U2 F' R' U' F' U F2 U F2 U'
6. 7.799 R' F' R U' F U' F U' R' U'
5. 9.183 R' F R' U' F U2 R2 U' F'
4. 6.224 R2 F' U2 R U F2 U' F2 R U'
3. 7.289 F' U' R2 U2 R' F' R2 U R' U'
2. 7.759 F U2 R' F2 R F2 R' U' F2 U'
1. 2.992 F2 U' F R' U2 R U'

That first scramble (not the first of the session, I did 60 or so before that one) should have been my new PB (it's 2.479), it was so easy


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## mafergut (Dec 3, 2015)

muchacho said:


> I've beaten my Ao5 PB in 2x2 4 times in just 10 solves, [...]
> 1. 2.992 F2 U' F R' U2 R U'
> 
> That first scramble (not the first of the session, I did 60 or so before that one) should have been my new PB (it's 2.479), it was so easy



Easy to one look for Ortega but I really hate the R U' R F2 R' U R' alg and lock up on it many times so I tried several times and kept getting a 2.3x to 2.5x.

Congratulations on your progress, by the way!!!!


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## muchacho (Dec 3, 2015)

Thanks! but my progression in 2x2 does not progress that much.

I've got 3 1.8x solves with that scramble (but in 25 tries, and with the cube in my hands).


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## Isaac Lai (Dec 3, 2015)

mafergut said:


> Easy to one look for Ortega but I really hate the R U' R F2 R' U R' alg and lock up on it many times so I tried several times and kept getting a 2.3x to 2.5x.
> 
> Congratulations on your progress, by the way!!!!



R' U R' F2 R F' R

You can cancel the first R' for this solve.


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## mafergut (Dec 3, 2015)

Isaac Lai said:


> R' U R' F2 R F' R
> 
> You can cancel the first R' for this solve.



Yeah... if you know multiple PBLs for each case, which I don't. The alg rings a bell but it's not in my muscle memory.
I "cancelled" the 1st R into R2 but, still, I'm too slow with that alg (and the left/down "mirror" for bar on bottom, diag on top).
Also when I try to do cancellations my muscle memory rebells and I end up messing up the solve some times or locking up badly. I'm a patzer, what can I say 



muchacho said:


> Thanks! but my progression in 2x2 does not progress that much.
> 
> I've got 3 1.8x solves with that scramble (but in 25 tries, and with the cube in my hands).



Then you are faster than me. I tried like 8 times and did not get any sub 2.2x (also with cube in my hand). But it's all because of this hateful PBL. In the weekly comp, in the last scramble I got a 1.41 on an antisune + U' AUF, which is 8 moves, while this was 7 moves. But sune and antisune flow so nicely...


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## JanW (Dec 3, 2015)

I'm still waiting for the 2x2 I ordered a month ago. Fasttech is very slow this time...

I just realized that unconsciously I've switched to a simplified version of corner comms. With UFR as my buffer, I nowadays do all the insertions from UFR to the left, down or back. So the buffer never moves during setup moves, and I use only 9 different insertions (3 in each direction). 2 setup moves seems to be enough to make the other 2 pieces in the cycle interchangeable with L, B or D moves. Maybe this is part of the reason why my accuracy got better and times as well for now. Setups are faster to work out and it's harder to screw up with only a few different insertions. Though this is of course not move optimal. I think I'll continue like this for a while and eventually I can start working in some more different insertions to reduce movecount. Still lots of room improvement with this system as well. If there is someone else who is crazy enough to jump straight into comms when learning blind, I can recommend starting with something like this. Keeps it simple and the cycles are quite easy to find out.


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## mafergut (Dec 3, 2015)

JanW said:


> I'm still waiting for the 2x2 I ordered a month ago. Fasttech is very slow this time...
> 
> I just realized that unconsciously I've switched to a simplified version of corner comms. [...]



I just keep being amazed by how you think of all this complex stuff on your own...!

Which 2x2 did you order by the way? I hope you get it before Christmas 

Talking about 2x2... new PB Ao12... twice. It was 5.04 and I got my 1st sub-5:

4.31, 4.06, 5.30, 5.73, (7.73), 5.69, 3.24, 5.55, 4.58, 6.88, 3.34, (2.78) = 4.87

And 20 or so solves later...

2.99, (5.94), 5.19, 5.38, 5.14, 4.80, 5.87, 5.60, 4.98, 4.45, 3.79, (2.80) = 4.82

Long average (500+) now around 5.5x. My TPS is not going to go much further so, to keep improving I will need to reduce pauses (still some room for improvement on recog) or reduce move count (learn CLL/EG) but I fear that with CLL more pauses for more complex recog will come.


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## JanW (Dec 3, 2015)

mafergut said:


> I just keep being amazed by how you think of all this complex stuff on your own...!
> 
> Which 2x2 did you order by the way? I hope you get it before Christmas


Well, didn't really come up with anything this time. It's more like I've developed a habit after a month of doing corner comms on the fly. Seems they are the commutators that I've found the easiest to spot, so I ended up doing only those.

I don't remember for sure now which 2x2 it was. Might have been Cyclone Boys. Probably should have done better research, I've read later that other brands are preferred by most people around here.


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## mafergut (Dec 3, 2015)

JanW said:


> Well, didn't really come up with anything this time. It's more like I've developed a habit after a month of doing corner comms on the fly. Seems they are the commutators that I've found the easiest to spot, so I ended up doing only those.
> 
> I don't remember for sure now which 2x2 it was. Might have been Cyclone Boys. Probably should have done better research, I've read later that other brands are preferred by most people around here.



I have a CB 2x2 and it is really nice but, as with the LingPo, I very frequently get internal chatches that are very, very frustrating and break the flow of the solve, making you lose a lot of time. Since I broke in my dayan, lubed it and tensioned it correctly (really, really tight or else it pops) I am using it as my new main. The feeling when turning is not great, it feels bumpy and not smooth and corner cutting is reduced by the tight tensions but I have not had a single catching issue in like 2000 solves (and not a single pop either since I tightened it, like in 1000 solves) and this is visible in the dropping averages. I would recommend it but you have to be really patient to break it in and set it up.

Maybe the CB and LingPo can be free of catching with some work but, for now, I will stay with the dayan... until I try maybe the Yuxin 2x2 and TangPo  but I will wait to have more reviews available.


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## mark49152 (Dec 4, 2015)

mafergut said:


> The feeling when turning is not great, it feels bumpy and not smooth and corner cutting is reduced by the tight tensions


Funny but I don't recognise your description of the Dayan at all. It's by far the smoothest and quietest 2x2 I own and the corner cutting is immaculate. No other 2x2 has ever come close, for me. Maybe there's something wrong with yours?


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## mafergut (Dec 4, 2015)

mark49152 said:


> Funny but I don't recognise your description of the Dayan at all. It's by far the smoothest and quietest 2x2 I own and the corner cutting is immaculate. No other 2x2 has ever come close, for me. Maybe there's something wrong with yours?



It IS quiet but I don't think it's smooth and I can understand that due to the desing of the inner pieces. I also tightened it A LOT to avoid pops but it still cuts close to 45 but not that much, maybe 40. Maybe it's a bit defective or not well broken in yet. Maybe we understand different things by smooth. It is definitely not scratchy but when turning I can feel the rounded edges passing below the hollow corners making the turning a little bumpy. I wish I could go to a comp and try one from a good cuber to see if there's any difference or something I can fix setting it up differently.


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## muchacho (Dec 4, 2015)

It was Valladolid? What's the closest comp? Madrid? AVE reaches Madrid in like 1 hour for 10 euros...


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## mafergut (Dec 4, 2015)

muchacho said:


> It was Valladolid? What's the closest comp? Madrid? AVE reaches Madrid in like 1 hour for 10 euros...



Yes, it is Valladolid. I do the trip at least once every week and it takes little more than 1 hour, yes. It is not 10 €, though, but more like 46 € and upwards. The reason why I cannot go to a comp is not distance or money, though, it is more an issue about spending a whole weekend day off in Madrid on my own instead of with my family. That's why I tried to get my 12-year-old son into cubing


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## mark49152 (Dec 4, 2015)

mafergut said:


> Maybe we understand different things by smooth.


There's nothing about mine that I could possibly say wasn't smooth. No bumpiness, nor scratchiness, nor catching. You could rewrite the dictionary definition of smooth to say "like a Dayan 2x2" . It's not super tight but not loose either.

One thing I do recall is that I had to take it apart and even up the tensions. I took out the fixed corner and set all the screws to be equally far in. Originally, the screws around the fixed corner were tighter and it didn't feel so good, but I don't remember what it felt like as that was 2-3 years ago.

Also, I may have glued the stalks, I can't remember (will check later). It uses the same mini core as the Panshi and 42mm Zhanchi, and the corner stalks are very thin, and flex during solves. Definitely on the Panshi I had to glue them to get rid of bumpiness. Just put a drop of glue between the three stalks and tie some string round to hold them tight until dry, then cut/file off any excess glue or burrs.


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## EvilGnome6 (Dec 4, 2015)

mafergut said:


> Yes, it is Valladolid. I do the trip at least once every week and it takes little more than 1 hour, yes. It is not 10 €, though, but more like 46 € and upwards. The reason why I cannot go to a comp is not distance or money, though, it is more an issue about spending a whole weekend day off in Madrid on my own instead of with my family. That's why I tried to get my 12-year-old son into cubing



Bring your son to a competition. There's nothing like a room full of speedcubing 12-year-olds to inspire one to get into it.


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## mafergut (Dec 4, 2015)

mark49152 said:


> There's nothing about mine that I could possibly say wasn't smooth. No bumpiness, nor scratchiness, nor catching. [...]
> One thing I do recall is that I had to take it apart and even up the tensions. [...]
> Also, I may have glued the stalks, I can't remember (will check later). [...]



Well, mine is not scratchy at all and it NEVER catches but the bumpiness is there definitely. Maybe yours has so many solves on it that has been smoothed by them. I did disassemble it and lube the core (also a bit weight 3 on the edges and corner stocks) and evened out the tensions until it stopped popping. Maybe I should try and unscrew a quarter turn at a time on each center and see if it still does not pop but, at the beginning, after reassembling it, tensions were not even and I had some half-cube-out pops. Maybe I'll try gluing the corners as you suggest.



EvilGnome6 said:


> Bring your son to a competition. There's nothing like a room full of speedcubing 12-year-olds to inspire one to get into it.



Now you have a point there! I would have to convince him and my wife, though, that the expense is worth it. Now it's at least two train tickets  (more like 3). Maybe I can add a night to the mix and look for something interesting to do the next day like a museum, theme park, etc. With that maybe I can bargain my way into a comp but, let's be honest, it would much cheaper to buy another 2 or 3 dayan 2x2s from different stores and see if one of them is better than mine.


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## muchacho (Dec 4, 2015)

First time try to compete only in 3x3 so there is plenty of time you can be with them doing what they prefer to.

I bought another Dayan, and it was worst (I mean worst than the other out of the box), if it doesn't improve you could buy another, maybe you were unlucky after all.


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## EvilGnome6 (Dec 4, 2015)

mafergut said:


> Now you have a point there! I would have to convince him and my wife, though, that the expense is worth it. Now it's at least two train tickets  (more like 3). Maybe I can add a night to the mix and look for something interesting to do the next day like a museum, theme park, etc. With that maybe I can bargain my way into a comp but, let's be honest, it would much cheaper to buy another 2 or 3 dayan 2x2s from different stores and see if one of them is better than mine.



I would much rather go to a competition than get a dozen new cubes. They're incredibly fun, challenging, stressful and inspiring. When my wife and I travel to competitions we usually make it a four day weekend and work in a bit of sight seeing or visit some family.


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## MarcelP (Dec 4, 2015)

After no real cubing almost a month I did an Ao50.. Had this little surprise in there:

40. 11.40 F U2 D' F' U' L2 D2 L2 D' L2 B D2 F R U R' B2 R' L2 F' R D' R2 U' R2 (Can't reconstruct but was PLL skip)


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## muchacho (Dec 4, 2015)

Nice one!

I've been a few days without timing myself... apparently my times remain more or less the same on average, but I'm getting some nice individual solves. New PB (16.328) and Ao5 (24.920).

29.206 R2 B2 D2 U R2 U' F2 U' B2 U2 R' F' D R L U R' L2 D' F
23.117 U' R2 U L2 U' F2 U' B2 F2 U' B2 R F2 D' B2 U2 B' L B2 U2
22.439 B2 U R2 D2 U B2 D' L2 D' F2 R2 F' D F' L' U' B' U' R2 B'
30.614 F2 L2 F2 D B2 U' F2 L2 U B2 U2 R' D B2 D' U' R' D2 U B' U'
16.328 D' B2 F2 D' L2 B2 D U R2 L2 F' R' U' B' R' B2 F' D2 U L U'


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## mafergut (Dec 4, 2015)

EvilGnome6 said:


> I would much rather go to a competition than get a dozen new cubes. They're incredibly fun, challenging, stressful and inspiring. When my wife and I travel to competitions we usually make it a four day weekend and work in a bit of sight seeing or visit some family.



Yeah, I understand that, in fact the final comment about buying 2 or 3 dayan 2x2s was just a joke as all this thread about me going to a comp started with me wanting to compare my dayan 2x2 with others'. I will consider it but I'm too competetitive and too bad at the same time, which is a very bad combination. Maybe it would be a good idea to stick to events which I'm reasonably bad at so, no Mega, no 4x4 or bigger, no Pyra, SQ-1 or skewb... just 2x2 and 3x3... maybe OH and that's about it.


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## JanW (Dec 4, 2015)

muchacho said:


> I've been a few days without timing myself... apparently my times remain more or less the same on average, but I'm getting some nice individual solves. New PB (16.328) and Ao5 (24.920).


Nice! Sub 25 Ao5 is already pretty decent! I don't expect to get there in a long time...

Finally first sub 4 blind success. 3:58.11 (1:17 memo). Could have been much better, but I shot one edge cycle in the wrong direction, realized after undoing setup moves and did the same cycle one more time to fix this. This probably cost me at least 20 seconds. I've had a few much better near successes. At best 03:21.39, off by one corner cycle. Accidentally put the letter F in my memo instead of G.

Sub 3:30 is my next goal, should hopefully not take too long. And I should also start making that word list for letterpairs. Memo time has dropped over 40 seconds in the last few day. I doubt it can drop very much further unless I get more systematic.


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## Jason Green (Dec 4, 2015)

muchacho said:


> Nice one!
> 
> I've been a few days without timing myself... apparently my times remain more or less the same on average, but I'm getting some nice individual solves. New PB (16.328) and Ao5 (24.920).
> 
> ...


Wow nice job! You went way under me, I don't know that I'll catch that 16 anytime soon. I've only had 4 sub 20 so far, hopefully I'll start getting enough that I lose count.


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## muchacho (Dec 4, 2015)

I have only 3 sub 20 now, and the other 2 are 19.xx, I was just very lucky


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## Jason Green (Dec 4, 2015)

Cool. Two 18s and two 19s for me. Maybe I'll try your scramble, I don't think it'll help though.


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## muchacho (Dec 4, 2015)

I've tried it a few minutes ago and I can't remember what I did, maybe it was a mis-scramble, in that case it wouldn't help you even if you used Roux.


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## moralsh (Dec 4, 2015)

Mafergut, there might be a one day comp in January in or near Alcalá de Henares, it might be easier to get away from your family duties for a single day.

If that's not an option either, just find a Venue there and I'll help you organize a one day comp in Valladolid.

I did a 1:19.xx 3BLD and two 4BLD DNFs off by 2 centers on my way to Cuba last week, not much more cubing than that in the whole week since. Routine will come in a week's time or so.


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## newtonbase (Dec 4, 2015)

3BLD 3:12. I think this equalled my PB but edges and corners both had 2 cycles and there was parity so not the easiest solve. This, IIRC, is my 1st timed solve since my failure at the UKs so I'm quite pleased. The advanced M2 practice is paying off and memo is improving.


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## mark49152 (Dec 5, 2015)

newtonbase said:


> 3BLD 3:12. I think this equalled my PB but edges and corners both had 2 cycles and there was parity so not the easiest solve. This, IIRC, is my 1st timed solve since my failure at the UKs so I'm quite pleased. The advanced M2 practice is paying off and memo is improving.


Awesome! It takes a lot of practice but it feels great when it pays off.

Couple of smashed single PBs today: 3BLD 1:36.99 (8 edge targets, 2 flips, 6 corner targets). My first timed session since UKC too. And 5x5 single 2:10, in ao12 of 2:32. That soft cut is looking more and more reachable . I've now wiped 23 secs off my ao12 PB in just 3 weeks.


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## Selkie (Dec 5, 2015)

Well life has been so busy I have not had much cubing time in the last couple of months but with some time to kill during the week on a train trip for business I decided to do some solves to pass the time. Delighted to get a pb of 8.48 though it was a very lucky solve. Been unable to reconstruct but it was about a 5 move x-cross and what I think was a wide antisune LL (PLL and AUF skip)

Well motivated by this back at an AO100 a day again. Still time to get these old hands to sub 15 global


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## h2f (Dec 5, 2015)

Awsome single.


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## Selkie (Dec 5, 2015)

h2f said:


> Awsome single.



Thank you. To be fair I have recently felt that I had reached my ceiling of ability. Even though I would religiously practice I did not feel I could improve much.

However whilst I have always been short sighted and needed glasses for distance in recent years by close up sight has not been as good. Having eventually got reading glasses in the last month the cube just seems so much clearer, I seem to be able to hold onto look ahead much better and just finished my A0100 for today at an average of 16.30 which is on a par with two months ago and that is without practice.

Hopefully with concentrated practice I can see some good improvement over the next coupe of months. Hmm, improvement can come from the most unexpected places


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## Jason Green (Dec 5, 2015)

Selkie said:


> Well life has been so busy I have not had much cubing time in the last couple of months but with some time to kill during the week on a train trip for business I decided to do some solves to pass the time. Delighted to get a pb of 8.48 though it was a very lucky solve. Been unable to reconstruct but it was about a 5 move x-cross and what I think was a wide antisune LL (PLL and AUF skip)
> 
> Well motivated by this back at an AO100 a day again. Still time to get these old hands to sub 15 global


Very cool! I still can't imagine a sub 10 at this point but maybe someday!


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## mafergut (Dec 5, 2015)

Jason Green said:


> Very cool! I still can't imagine a sub 10 at this point but maybe someday!



It's been two weeks already that I can't even think of consistently getting sub-20 solves any more, so I don't expect to get a sub-10 any time soon. I have been practising slow untimed solves for like 3-4 days to improve lookahead and when I did my 1st timed solves in days for the Race to sub-20 weekly challenge I got almost all 21s


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## h2f (Dec 5, 2015)

mafergut said:


> It's been two weeks already that I can't even think of consistently getting sub-20 solves any more, so I don't expect to get a sub-10 any time soon. I have been practising slow untimed solves for like 3-4 days to improve lookahead and when I did my 1st timed solves in days for the Race to sub-20 weekly challenge I got almost all 21s



Same me. I was doing a lot of 4x4 solves in this week. I thought my look ahead go better in 3x3. First solves were very disappoiting. But next came some 16s and 17s. Still ao50 much over 20. I need a practice.


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## Selkie (Dec 5, 2015)

I was reviewing my YouTube channel earlier and came across one of my first filmed solves, an 18.06 pb from 4 years ago. Back then I wouldn't have dreamed of getting any sub 10's and to be fair I have had about 10 sub 10 solves, all in the last 9 months.

If you are struggling with the 20 second barrier this video might help to show sub 20 can be achieved with slow turning throughout. I filmed it as an example originally for this thread a few months ago. Might help a bit of old age motivation


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## Jason Green (Dec 5, 2015)

Selkie said:


> I was reviewing my YouTube channel earlier and came across one of my first filmed solves, an 18.06 pb from 4 years ago. Back then I wouldn't have dreamed of getting any sub 10's and to be fair I have had about 10 sub 10 solves, all in the last 9 months.
> 
> If you are struggling with the 20 second barrier this video might help to show sub 20 can be achieved with slow turning throughout. I filmed it as an example originally for this thread a few months ago. Might help a bit of old age motivation
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LLMCAdvLmL4



Yes that's awesome, I've seen a few slow turning sub 20 vids! They are motivating to reaching sub 20 for sure.


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## mark49152 (Dec 5, 2015)

mark49152 said:


> And 5x5 single 2:10, in ao12 of 2:32. That soft cut is looking more and more reachable . I've now wiped 23 secs off my ao12 PB in just 3 weeks.


Wiped off another 8 seconds today: 2:24 ao12, sub-cut! Also two 2:09 singles. I am loving 5x5 at the moment.


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## h2f (Dec 6, 2015)

Selkie said:


> I was reviewing my YouTube channel earlier and came across one of my first filmed solves, an 18.06 pb from 4 years ago. Back then I wouldn't have dreamed of getting any sub 10's and to be fair I have had about 10 sub 10 solves, all in the last 9 months.
> 
> If you are struggling with the 20 second barrier this video might help to show sub 20 can be achieved with slow turning throughout. I filmed it as an example originally for this thread a few months ago. Might help a bit of old age motivation
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LLMCAdvLmL4



Nice video. It helps a lot. Thanks



mark49152 said:


> Wiped off another 8 seconds today: 2:24 ao12, sub-cut! Also two 2:09 singles. I am loving 5x5 at the moment.



Awsome Mark. 

I think I'll try Yau5 because I use yau on 4x4 and I like that method.


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## Selkie (Dec 6, 2015)

I need to practice 5x5 more. Sub 2:25 is great. Think I am closer to 2:35 globally


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## Jason Green (Dec 6, 2015)

I had three solves just over 20 seconds yesterday, which really made me want to get a sub 20 on cam. I recorded some last night and had two more 20s but no sub yet on cam. It's fun having a near term goal like that it seemed to give me a good session, just under 27 average. Here was the best I got. 

What do you think of the camera angle? I like it but do not like having to pan to show the time. It means I can put less of the solve on an Instagram clip. 

https://youtu.be/bp0rHS79qKg


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## h2f (Dec 6, 2015)

Angle is fine, but I like to see timer when I watch someone. But it's my individual preference.

BTW finally I did 5bld - first success since august. Time was 33 minutes beacause I wasnt hurry and had to make a coffee for my wife. I think it was like 5 or 10 extra minutes to memo. And I got new Thunderclap. It is amazing - so stable, fast and locking...


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## Selkie (Dec 7, 2015)

Jason Green said:


> I had three solves just over 20 seconds yesterday, which really made me want to get a sub 20 on cam. I recorded some last night and had two more 20s but no sub yet on cam. It's fun having a near term goal like that it seemed to give me a good session, just under 27 average. Here was the best I got.
> 
> What do you think of the camera angle? I like it but do not like having to pan to show the time. It means I can put less of the solve on an Instagram clip.
> 
> https://youtu.be/bp0rHS79qKg



Agreed angle is fine. I found it was tricky getting a good angle until I bought a tripod without balancing the camera on a stack of chairs etc  Took me a while to get used to filmed solves. I never used to be able to perform anywhere close of my usual speed but with practice you will get there. I still feel I do not perform quite as well but I had three sub 15 averages on three different cubes in a day on film a couple of months ago. There is the added benefit of watching it back yourself which can be a source of great improvement. I like your turning style and with practice there is no reason why you cannot start getting sub 20 averages soon 

If I'm not being rude Jason, how old are you?



h2f said:


> Angle is fine, but I like to see timer when I watch someone. But it's my individual preference.
> 
> BTW finally I did 5bld - first success since august. Time was 33 minutes beacause I wasnt hurry and had to make a coffee for my wife. I think it was like 5 or 10 extra minutes to memo. And I got new Thunderclap. It is amazing - so stable, fast and locking...



5BLD is such a great achievement. BLD of any form has always been my nemesis. I have about 4 3x3 BLD successes out of about 50 attempts and that knocked my confidence a few years ago and I have left the discipline well alone since then. With two weeks off over Christmas I might just try and dedicate some time to get back into BLD


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## Isaac Lai (Dec 7, 2015)

Jason Green said:


> I had three solves just over 20 seconds yesterday, which really made me want to get a sub 20 on cam. I recorded some last night and had two more 20s but no sub yet on cam. It's fun having a near term goal like that it seemed to give me a good session, just under 27 average. Here was the best I got.
> 
> What do you think of the camera angle? I like it but do not like having to pan to show the time. It means I can put less of the solve on an Instagram clip.
> 
> https://youtu.be/bp0rHS79qKg



Lol nice 4x4 results in the weekly comp 



Spoiler



I think you entered your 3x3 times in the wrong place


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## Jason Green (Dec 7, 2015)

Isaac Lai said:


> Lol nice 4x4 results in the weekly comp
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Hmmm I bet I entered it in both. The first time I wondered why it did not take. Going to look. 

Yep, thanks for telling me.


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## MarcelP (Dec 7, 2015)

Selkie said:


> With two weeks off over Christmas I might just try and dedicate some time to get back into BLD



Hey Chris,

I wondered where you had gone. Nice to see you back here again. After all you are the faztest oldie out here  I might also take some time around Christmas and practice some BLD.


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## ljacob332 (Dec 7, 2015)

when scrambling, my advice is to use completely random moves so that the scrambles you solve with aren't repetitive


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## h2f (Dec 7, 2015)

Selkie said:


> BLD of any form has always been my nemesis. I have about 4 3x3 BLD successes out of about 50 attempts and that knocked my confidence a few years ago and I have left the discipline well alone since then. With two weeks off over Christmas I might just try and dedicate some time to get back into BLD



I was watching my printscreens with some achivments in speedosolving. For example once I had 20 dnfs in 3bld in a row.


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## MarcelP (Dec 7, 2015)

h2f said:


> I was watching my printscreens with some achivments in speedosolving. For example once I had 20 dnfs in 3bld in a row.



I have two successes in over 100 attempts. I clearly understand what Selkie is talking about.


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## mark49152 (Dec 7, 2015)

MarcelP said:


> I have two successes in over 100 attempts. I clearly understand what Selkie is talking about.


Did you practise sighted solves first? I would recommend writing down your memo, then solving sighted reading from the memo, and study how execution works. Then move on to writing down memo but solving out of sight (like under the table) still reading the memo. Basically, develop skills incrementally. Don't try full blind until you have no problem solving from a written string of letters.


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## mafergut (Dec 7, 2015)

Jason Green said:


> I had three solves just over 20 seconds yesterday, which really made me want to get a sub 20 on cam. I recorded some last night and had two more 20s but no sub yet on cam. It's fun having a near term goal like that it seemed to give me a good session, just under 27 average. Here was the best I got.
> 
> What do you think of the camera angle? I like it but do not like having to pan to show the time. It means I can put less of the solve on an Instagram clip.
> 
> https://youtu.be/bp0rHS79qKg



Nice close-up angle. I lately use a "GoPro-style", tied to my head but at times I get dizzy watching my own recordings  but I'm too lazy to set-up the tripod and also I don't have to get up every time I want to start and stop the recording but I'll have to try something like this.


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## Selkie (Dec 7, 2015)

MarcelP said:


> Hey Chris,
> 
> I wondered where you had gone. Nice to see you back here again. After all you are the faztest oldie out here  I might also take some time around Christmas and practice some BLD.



Heh Marcel, thank you sir, it is good to be back. You know how it is, life gets in the way, work gets in the way but I will always return  As for fastest, don't think I will ever catch Ron but it is fun trying 



mafergut said:


> Nice close-up angle. I lately use a "GoPro-style", tied to my head but at times I get dizzy watching my own recordings  but I'm too lazy to set-up the tripod and also I don't have to get up every time I want to start and stop the recording but I'll have to try something like this.



It is true that I don't film as much as I would for setting it up. Think I might invest in a head cam in the new year


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## JanW (Dec 7, 2015)

New 3bld pb, 3:08.83. First time I managed memo in less than one minute, 57.98s. Solve wasn't near perfect though, forgot the last corner cycle and had to think through all previously solved cycles to figure out which corners weren't solved yet and come up with that last missing word from my memo. At best I've done execution more than 30 sec faster in earlier successful solves. Sub 3 isn't too far off now! 



h2f said:


> I'm not sure if theres specific alg. I use such solution: I just swap UBL and UBR - this means one extra target (UBR) to corners - and after edges I do: M2, y L2 Tperm L2. Swithiching UBL and UBR is very easy when you use 3-cycle because UBR with UBL buffer is one of the easiest cycles with every target.


Saw this in another thread, replying here as it seems a bit too far off topic for that thread.. If you always put UBR at the end of corner memo, doesn't that often cause an extra 3-cycle that could be avoided? I do edges first and swap UF (buffer) and UR. During memo I treat the UF piece as the UR piece and solve it directly into the right spot if it comes up. When I hit the UR piece I do a cycle break. This will often save one cycle break and lead to one 3-cycle less, compared to putting UR at the end of memo.


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## h2f (Dec 7, 2015)

JanW said:


> Saw this in another thread, replying here as it seems a bit too far off topic for that thread.. If you always put UBR at the end of corner memo, doesn't that often cause an extra 3-cycle that could be avoided? I do edges first and swap UF (buffer) and UR. During memo I treat the UF piece as the UR piece and solve it directly into the right spot if it comes up. When I hit the UR piece I do a cycle break. This will often save one cycle break and lead to one 3-cycle less, compared to putting UR at the end of memo.



It doesnt add extra 3-cycle because you have still 2 corners to swap. Adding 1 target you can do it with 3cycle. But I memo edges first and I dont know if theres parity or not till I finish my memo. Thats why I dont swap UB and UL to solve parity with OP. Of course I can not doing last corner till I finish my edges than D' L2 D M2 D' L2 D and then last target with OP but it means you have to memo your last corner till the end of the solve and doing 7 move alg and Y perm which is also long. That's why I found my solution as quite good. With turbo/comms I do almost the same but I swithc UBL and UFL and I solve parity with Ja perm or Rperm. Parity means 1 corner and 1 edge left but you can only do something with 3 corerns or 3 edges or 2 corners and 2 edges. That means Ja perm or Rperm or Tperm quite good to solve parity. 

Sorry for my english but it's hard to explain my thoughts about it.


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## JanW (Dec 7, 2015)

h2f said:


> It doesnt add extra 3-cycle because you have still 2 corners to swap. Adding 1 target you can do it with 3cycle.


Here's an example:

L' U2 L F2 U2 L' B2 D2 R' U2 L F2 R2 D' L2 R2 B' F2 L2 R F D2 
(solve in same direction as scramble)

You use UBL as buffer, so you'd get a cycle break after the first cycle (FDL-FUL) and end up with a total of 5 corner cycles, right?

If you instead don't do any cycle break at that point, but shoot the buffer piece directly to UBR and do cycle break when you arrive at the piece that normally goes into UBR, you can reach the same results in 4 cycles. For example FDL-FUL ; UBR-FUR ; DFR-BDR ; DBL - BDR

In that same scramble, if I'd put UR at the end of edge memo I'd have 7 cycles, but if I instead solve UF directly to UR I get only 6 cycles.

This might be harder to do with corners than with edges though, as there's one more rotation to keep track of.


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## h2f (Dec 7, 2015)

I know what you mean and I do sometimes this. Though taking UBR as a cycle break is not good every time because you may finish with not UBR but RBU or BUR and this means rotation of corners in the end of the solve. So during speedsolve I do my way but it's worth of thinking what you wrote.


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## newtonbase (Dec 7, 2015)

mafergut said:


> Nice close-up angle. I lately use a "GoPro-style", tied to my head but at times I get dizzy watching my own recordings  but I'm too lazy to set-up the tripod and also I don't have to get up every time I want to start and stop the recording but I'll have to try something like this.



What camera is that? I've started a thread asking what people use recently.


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## JanW (Dec 7, 2015)

h2f said:


> I know what you mean and I do sometimes this. Though taking UBR as a cycle break is not good every time because you may finish with not UBR but RBU or BUR and this means rotation of corners in the end of the solve.


This shouldn't be a problem at all, as long as you solve the UBL piece correctly rotated into UBR. The UBR piece that goes back to your buffer will act just like the buffer normally would. If you've solved the other corners correctly, the buffer will also be rotated correctly. You can't have only one twisted corner. 

But this is what I meant that it's a bit harder with corners, you have to get your buffer piece correctly into UBR. So when you have parity, you memo LBU sticker as the letter for BUR, BUL sticker as the letter for RBU and UBL sticker as the letter for UBR. With edges it's much easier to get it rotated correctly, or let's say it's harder to make mistakes there.

This only makes a difference if there is a cycle break before your memo arrives at the piece that normally goes into UBR. But I believe the memo can never get longer with this system, only shorter, so I use it every time when I have parity, just for consistency.


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## Jason Green (Dec 7, 2015)

newtonbase said:


> What camera is that? I've started a thread asking what people use recently.


My camera is just my Galaxy S5. I have a little tripod with the flexible legs, I wrap it around a chair or something for higher usually (if it's behind me).


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## h2f (Dec 7, 2015)

JanW said:


> This shouldn't be a problem at all, as long as you solve the UBL piece correctly rotated into UBR. The UBR piece that goes back to your buffer will act just like the buffer normally would. If you've solved the other corners correctly, the buffer will also be rotated correctly. You can't have only one twisted corner.



Im not sure but not always your buffer is in correct rotation when you do a breaking into new cycle. That's why it causes rotation of buffer and of course UBR. I think your solution makes "to-much-thinking-where-what-is". For me much safer is to make it my way. But of course I will think about what you wrote and add it to my solutions if I feel fine whit this. At the moment my buffer is UF and I switch UBL anf UFR.


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## JanW (Dec 7, 2015)

h2f said:


> Im not sure but not always your buffer is in correct rotation when you do a breaking into new cycle. That's why it causes rotation of buffer and of course UBR. I think your solution makes "to-much-thinking-where-what-is". For me much safer is to make it my way. But of course I will think about what you wrote and add it to my solutions if I feel fine whit this. At the moment my buffer is UF and I switch UBL anf UFR.


Normally your buffer wouldn't always be in the correct orientation either when you break into a new cycle. But if it isn't, then when you arrive back at the first piece of the new cycle, you will arrive at another sticker to put the buffer in correct orientation. This works the same way even if you break into new cycle with some other piece.

But of course I understand that it's safer to do the way you're used. Especially if the last extra cycle to UFR is very fast, as you said. You've been doing it for quite a while, so it would probably take some time to get used to new letters for buffer piece.

Another problem with this is that if I do a mistake in corner memo and think I have parity, but when I memo edges I find that there isn't parity, I have to do both corner and edge memo again from the start, because my edge memo can become very different depending on if there is parity or not. This wouldn't be a problem if I just put UR at the end of edges.


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## h2f (Dec 7, 2015)

I'm sure your ideas about it are very intersteing.


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## Selkie (Dec 8, 2015)

Jason Green said:


> My camera is just my Galaxy S5. I have a little tripod with the flexible legs, I wrap it around a chair or something for higher usually (if it's behind me).



Interesting, my most recent filmed solves are done on my work Samsung Galaxy S4. Unfortunately my personal Sony Xperia Z Ultra cuts off due to overheating. We have purchased our son a very nice camera for Christmas I might have to borrow. I seem to be making more and more reasons to buy a Go Pro 

Last night I had a 14.97 Ao12. Only my 4th(?) sub 15 Ao12 ever. My new reading glasses are really helping me see better cubing though I do feel I am losing some LL alg speed. Time to drill some algs I think. I could sub 2s all PLLs a couple of years ago and I suspect that has dropped now on some of the longer cases. After all if I want to attain my goal I set many years ago and be sub 15 globally I am going to have to find another 1.2-1.3 seconds from somewhere!

TPS and age have always been talked about together and usually one of the biggest reasons to attribute why sub 40 years aren't sub 10. However I remember starting a thread a few years ago as a study of PLL times compared to age and the results were interesting. There was less correlation than I thought. Have you guys ever times your PLLs? be interested in seeing the results.

I might see if I can do a video of all my PLLs over Christmas. Think there are about 30 I use day to say, for instance 4 U perms etc. Doing that would act as a good basis for me to re-review them myself and look at best times for each etc.


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## h2f (Dec 8, 2015)

Selkie said:


> Have you guys ever times your PLLs? be interested in seeing the results.



Yes I did, last time month ago. I do sometimes drill my PLLs. Only Nb I do over 3 sec, J, U, A, T, E I do sub2. I also did plls attacks for warmup. These exercieses (PLLs and pll attacks) are very helpfull.


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## moralsh (Dec 8, 2015)

I think I should start ruining my PLLs as I think my last layer is horrible (6-7 seconds on average) I don't think TPS are all my problems but I should definitely check where I am. Will do it once I get home this weekend.

On a side note, I did a 17.35 Ao5 which I think is PB on one if my few days of cubing on my holidays, 5x was a disaster (3 minutes) and 7x too (10 minutes) I need more practice.


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## MarcelP (Dec 8, 2015)

mark49152 said:


> Did you practise sighted solves first? I would recommend writing down your memo, then solving sighted reading from the memo, and study how execution works. Then move on to writing down memo but solving out of sight (like under the table) still reading the memo. Basically, develop skills incrementally. Don't try full blind until you have no problem solving from a written string of letters.



That sounds like a good plan. Thanks, I will try that.



Selkie said:


> Heh Marcel, thank you sir, it is good to be back. You know how it is, life gets in the way, work gets in the way but I will always return  As for fastest, don't think I will ever catch Ron but it is fun trying



Yeah, Ron is hard to catch. But then, he is the co-founder of WCA and been practicing way too long 




moralsh said:


> I think I should start ruining my PLLs as I think my last layer is horrible (6-7 seconds on average) I don't think TPS are all my problems but I should definitely check where I am. Will do it once I get home this weekend.



Yeah, my PLL's are also the weakest part. At competition I compare myself to othe people my age and their LL is much faster and smoother.. I optimized most of my PLL's with the coolest algs but still I suck at it.. It will probably not get much better without drilling algs.. Something I hate doing.


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## mark49152 (Dec 8, 2015)

Selkie said:


> Have you guys ever times your PLLs? be interested in seeing the results.


Not individually, but in groups and attacks. My full PLL attack is around 52 seconds so that's about 2.5 per PLL. I used to practise it frequently and have been at that level for a couple of years, so I regard it as a kind of natural limit on my TPS. Maybe I will shave off a couple more seconds over time but I don't think I'll ever be significantly faster.


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## mafergut (Dec 8, 2015)

I had never done a full PLL timing session but I did right now just because.
I got pretty dismal times that could explain why even when I get decent F2L I cannot easily get any sub-15 solves 
For those less common I put the actual alg I use.

H	Avg. 2.02 best 1.59 (M2 alg)
Ua	Avg. 1.65 best 1.34 (R, U alg, bar in front)
Ub	Avg. 1.55 best 1.17 (R, U alg, bar in front)
Ua	Avg. 2.05 best 1.76 (M alg, bar in back)
Ub	Avg. 2.21 best 1.76 (M alg, bar in back)
Z	Avg. 2.55 best 2.00 (R, U alg)
Aa	Avg. 1.80 best 1.51
Ab	Avg. 1.84 best 1.64
Aa	Avg. 2.18 best 1.99 (lefty mirror)
Ab	Avg. 2.11 best 2.00 (lefty mirror)
E	Avg. 2.93 best 2.51
F	Avg. 3.01 best 2.47
Ga	Avg. 2.11 best 1.74
Gb	Avg. 2.34 best 2.11
Gc	--- did not time, I assume similar to Ga
Gd	--- did not time, I assume similar to Gb
Ja	Avg. 2.45 best 2.20
Jb	Avg. 1.93 best 1.55 (T-perm conj.)
Ja	Avg. 2.64 best 1.99 (lefty mirror of Jb)
Na	Avg. 3.07 best 2.83 (lefty mirror of Nb)
Nb	Avg. 2.57 best 2.25 (R' U R U' R' F' U' F R U R' F R' F' R U' R)
Ra	Avg. 2.40 best 2.34 (R U2 R' U2 R B' R' U' R U R B R2 U)
Rb	Avg. 2.45 best 2.09 (R' U2 R U2 R' F (R U R' U') R' F' R2' U')
T	Avg. 1.91 best 1.45
V	Avg. 2.80 best 2.41 ((y) r' F R F' r U r' F R' F' r U2 R U2 R')
Y	Avg. 2.09 best 1.79


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## MarcelP (Dec 8, 2015)

mafergut said:


> I had never done a full PLL timing session but I did right now just because.
> F	Avg. 3.01 best 2.47
> Na	Avg. 3.07 best 2.83 (lefty mirror of Nb)



Need some work on F and Na  Rest is pretty ok.


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## mafergut (Dec 8, 2015)

MarcelP said:


> Need some work on F and Na  Rest is pretty ok.



For F-perm I use: R' U R U' R2 (y') R' U' R U (y x) R U R' U' R2 (x')
Maybe the 2 mid-alg rotations are the culprit here.

For OH I have started to use this one: (y) R' U' F' R U R' U' R' F R2 U' R' U' R U R' U R
which has most of a T-perm in between R' U' F' and U R.

This one has no rotations so, maybe I shoud start using it also for 2H

And Na I was just too lazy to learn a specific alg so I just mirrored Nb with my left hand and that's a mistake I have never gotten rid of, as I'm noticeably slower with left than right. So maybe I should look for a new alg this Christmas.

In summary I'm only able to consistently sub-2 the As, Us, T and Jb, while the others are closer (or above) in average to 3 seconds than 2. Anyway, at most there's half a second to be improved in PLL execution. F2L execution and PLL recognition I'm sure are the areas where I should improve, as well as some tricks like some LS and COLL easy cases that I should learn.


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## h2f (Dec 8, 2015)

Nice times. If you use stackmat timer you can make them better cause it's allowed to start with cube in hands. I think my E and A perms are around 1 second (1,3 i think best time). Few days ago I got my Thunderclap and it's awsome - I lowerd my plls around 0,3-0,5 seconds.


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## mafergut (Dec 8, 2015)

h2f said:


> Nice times. If you use stackmat timer you can make them better cause it's allowed to start with cube in hands. I think my E and A perms are around 1 second (1,3 i think best time). Few days ago I got my Thunderclap and it's awsome - I lowerd my plls around 0,3-0,5 seconds.



Which E alg do you use? That's much faster than mine, which is:

(x) U R' U' L U R U' r2 U' R U L U' R' U (x)

Edit: I don't have a stackmat. I got the times starting with cube in hands with spacebar pressed with pinky and stopping with spacebar again with some finger or other but I don't think I'm losing more than 0.1 there.

Also, now that I took the time to record all my PLLs and times I will put that in a file and try to keep it up to date and time myself with different cubes. There are cubes which are noticeably faster than my main but I'd just gain 0.2 in PLL and lose more time elsewhere due to instability.

Edit2: Trying to change my Na perm for either of these:
(L U' R U2 L' U R')2 U'
(z) (U R' D R2 U' R D')2 (z')

but both take like high 4 to low 5 seconds now. It's gonna take months before I am at the same level that my "horrible" Na. A year before I'm actually faster  And this is just a case that I don't get that much... maybe the reason I didn't care to change before and the reason why I always recommend people to learn good algs from the beginning


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## h2f (Dec 8, 2015)

I use the one made of 2 olls and both are very fast comms.

x' [R U' R', D] and x' [R U R', D].

But I think I've exagerrated my Eperm. At the moment - I've checked - it's between 1.5-1.9.


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## mafergut (Dec 8, 2015)

h2f said:


> I use the one made of 2 olls and both are very fast comms.
> 
> x' [R U' R', D] and x' [R U R', D].
> 
> But I think I've exagerrated my Eperm. At the moment - I've checked - it's between 1.5-1.9.



Maybe this one? (y x') R U' R' D R U R' D' R U R' D R U' R' D' (x)

I will try it.

By the way, I was mindlessly repeating the new Na-perm [I finally chose this one (z) (U R' D R2 U' R D')2 (z')]
and I'm already getting 2.6 times with it. I think I'm gonna stick with it


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## EvilGnome6 (Dec 8, 2015)

I tried timing a few PLLs and they were all around 3-4 seconds so I gave up. :meh:


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## sqAree (Dec 8, 2015)

mafergut said:


> Maybe this one? (y x') R U' R' D R U R' D' R U R' D R U' R' D' (x)
> 
> I will try it.
> 
> ...



R U' R' D R U R' D' R U R' D R U' R' D' is definitely the best E perm out there ; regripless and crazy fast once used to D turns. I can do it in 1.57 while most of my PLLs aren't sub2.
For OH the same alg is good, an alternative (that works better for me) is: R2 U R' U' y R U R' U' R U R' U' R U R' y' R U' R2.

I can only recommend the conjugated T perm for F (both OH and 2H).

What did you use for Na? There is R U R' U R U R' F' R U R' U' R' F R2 U' R' U2 R U' R'.


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## MarcelP (Dec 8, 2015)

mafergut said:


> This one has no rotations so, maybe I shoud start using it also for 2H



Yeah you should.. It is easily sub 3. I use that one too.

For Na I use z U R' D R2 U' R D' U R' D R2 U' R D' z'

Here is a video of SneakelyFox (one of the coolest women of this forum that used to hang out here)


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## mark49152 (Dec 8, 2015)

sqAree said:


> x' R U' R' D R U R' D' R U R' D R U' R' D' x (fixed) is definitely the best E perm out there ; regripless and crazy fast once used to D turns.



Except for the rotation/regrip at the start. Here's a similar alg with no rotation: R' U' R' D' R U' R' D R U R' D' R U R' D R2


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## h2f (Dec 8, 2015)

mark49152 said:


> Except for the rotation/regrip at the start. Here's a similar alg with no rotation: R' U' R' D' R U' R' D R U R' D' R U R' D R2



Nice alg.



mafergut said:


> Maybe this one? (y x') R U' R' D R U R' D' R U R' D R U' R' D' (x)
> 
> I will try it.
> 
> ...



Yes, this is the same. 

BTW nice Na perm. I knew it but never used. Seems fine. 2,3 with it!


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## Chree (Dec 8, 2015)

mark49152 said:


> Except for the rotation/regrip at the start. Here's a similar alg with no rotation: R' U' R' D' R U' R' D R U R' D' R U R' D R2



Wow... that's pretty nice! Never knew about that one.

Edit: Just realized this is also one of the E-Perms I use on Megaminx. Makes it a lot easier to remember. The standard E Perm also works on a different case on Mega.


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## Jason Green (Dec 8, 2015)

MarcelP said:


> Yeah you should.. It is easily sub 3. I use that one too.
> 
> For Na I use z U R' D R2 U' R D' U R' D R2 U' R D' z'
> 
> ...


This is awesome. I'm going to try some of these n perms, mine sucks! Actually all my perms are pretty slow, I might be close to 2 on a couple but the rest are probably 3 or 4.


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## Jason Green (Dec 8, 2015)

What's a good Nb Perm?


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## MarcelP (Dec 8, 2015)

Jason Green said:


> What's a good Nb Perm?



Absolute best: R' U L' U2 R U' M' B r' U2 R U' L


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## h2f (Dec 8, 2015)

I got same question, but I remebered I watched this a long time ago:








MarcelP said:


> Absolute best: R' U L' U2 R U' M' B r' U2 R U' L



I found it long time on Plechoss channel.


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## Chree (Dec 8, 2015)

Jason Green said:


> What's a good Nb Perm?



I always liked: R' U R U' R' F' U' F R U R' F R' F' R U' R

Learned it from Felix's PLL video. Drilled it for the entire duration of the movie "Looper". So now when I get it in practice, I always think of Joseph Gordon Levitt and/or Bruce Willis.


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## Selkie (Dec 8, 2015)

Just got home from work and .. oh wow, what a lot of PLL feedback. Great stuff all. I will stackmat time my PLLs if I find time tomorrow.

As for current topic of conversation, Na, I use ...

F' R U R' U' R' F R2 F U' R' U' R U F' R'

But I perform it without regrip with the last F and F' done with the right ring finger push and pull. The hardest of my PLLs to explain. I'll also YouTube that tomorrow and link it.



MarcelP said:


> Yeah you should.. It is easily sub 3. I use that one too.
> 
> For Na I use z U R' D R2 U' R D' U R' D R2 U' R D' z'
> 
> Here is a video of SneakelyFox (one of the coolest women of this forum that used to hang out here)



Good choice of Na and I believe the one Brendan Vallance chose when he did a video with sub 1 second for all PLLs a few years back


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## muchacho (Dec 8, 2015)

Great, I really need a new N perm, I'll try all of those, thanks!


_offtopic, this is how I get a lot of "plastic sticker razors":_
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vuDVOTduSD0


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## JanW (Dec 8, 2015)

Okay, didn't expect that quite yet... 3bld 02:11.48 (44.8 memo). A solve where everything came together. Quite easy memo, 5 edge cycles, 3 corner cycles and one twisted corner, no mistakes or memory lapses and no long breaks to figure out how to execute cycles. I don't expect to beat that in a while. Old PB (from yesterday) was 3:01.

I've been looking at some PLL algs if there would be something there to help with parity, but haven't found anything really useful yet. I found that solving last two corners and edges can often be done with shorter algs if the corners aren't correctly oriented like in PLL, so I've learned some of those instead. Had to learn something new anyway as I don't know PLL. Jb-perm seems to be the only easy one that works well with my buffers, but since I already have a good one that swaps my UFR buffer with LUB, there are very few cases that would benefit from setting up to UBR instead.


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## h2f (Dec 8, 2015)

Nice time Jan.
Today I've decided to back to M2, because it's so familiar and my times around 2 minutes become annoying to me. And I've made a 2nd solve 1:20 with memo around 30. Algs from turbo works with M2, but they do different things. Mark's thread about advanced M2 is a great inspiration to me.


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## Jason Green (Dec 9, 2015)

h2f said:


> I got same question, but I remebered I watched this a long time ago:
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Grl4ELs_vk4
> 
> ...


I think I'm going to learn this video, although I feel a little nervous not following Marcel's advice.


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## MarcelP (Dec 9, 2015)

Jason Green said:


> I think I'm going to learn this video, although I feel a little nervous not following Marcel's advice.



LOL, algs is a pure matter of personal preference.. take the one that feels right..


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## EvilGnome6 (Dec 9, 2015)

Should I learn full OLL and PLL for OH? It's not an event I care much about but I find myself doing it a lot when I'm casually solving or walking around. Mostly, I find it annoying having to 2-look a case for which I already know a 2H alg.


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## Isaac Lai (Dec 9, 2015)

EvilGnome6 said:


> Should I learn full OLL and PLL for OH? It's not an event I care much about but I find myself doing it a lot when I'm casually solving or walking around. Mostly, I find it annoying having to 2-look a case for which I already know a 2H alg.



The only PLL algs I found impossible to do for OH were H, Nb, U (since I used MU), V and Z. I learnt a nice F perm also. Nobody really learns full OH OLL, most people just do the ones they know and avoid those that they don't know (it shouldn't be that many). You can also learn some COLL.


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## shadowslice e (Dec 9, 2015)

Isaac Lai said:


> The only PLL algs I found impossible to do for OH were H, Nb, U (since I used MU), V and Z.



Table abuse FTW!


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## SenorJuan (Dec 9, 2015)

So Mr Gnome has to casually walk around carrying a table with him in his (conveniently) free hand....hmm.....

I prefer my OH solves to have some degree of elegance to them.

Speaking of which, I've had a stab at OH 4x4x4 with my new Weisu. Not much elegance there, it locks up every other turn, I think some modifications are in order. So my best time so far is a dismal 3m17s, some way shy of Antoine's 63s best. Perhaps a more realistic target of 2m00 might be worth contemplating.


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## EvilGnome6 (Dec 9, 2015)

SenorJuan said:


> So Mr Gnome has to casually walk around carrying a table with him in his (conveniently) free hand....hmm.....



LOL 



> I prefer my OH solves to have some degree of elegance to them.



I agree and after knowing full OLL and PLL, 2-look feels inelegant.


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## shadowslice e (Dec 9, 2015)

SenorJuan said:


> So Mr Gnome has to casually walk around carrying a table with him in his (conveniently) free hand....hmm.....
> 
> I prfer my OH solves to have some degree of elegance to them..



I tend to just use the back of my hand or similar flat surface


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## EvilGnome6 (Dec 9, 2015)

shadowslice e said:


> I tend to just use the back of my hand or similar flat surface



That's a DNF!


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## mark49152 (Dec 9, 2015)

EvilGnome6 said:


> That's a DNF!


What if you used someone else's hand?


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## JanW (Dec 9, 2015)

EvilGnome6 said:


> That's a DNF!


Use your forehead.


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## Jason Green (Dec 9, 2015)

EvilGnome6 said:


> That's a DNF!


Cubers do amazing things with cubes that others find hard to believe. So may I suggest balancing the table on your chin for OH, and with your free hand you could juggle (keep it to 5 balls until you get good).


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## Chree (Dec 9, 2015)

EvilGnome6 said:


> I agree and after knowing full OLL and PLL, 2-look feels inelegant.



https://sites.google.com/site/antoineccantin/oh
Learn from the best! I wound up preferring a lot of his OLLs for 2H as well. The PLLs are OK, but the most part, you can prob just stick with what you're already doing for 2H.


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## EvilGnome6 (Dec 9, 2015)

Chree said:


> https://sites.google.com/site/antoineccantin/oh
> Learn from the best! I wound up preferring a lot of his OLLs for 2H as well. The PLLs are OK, but the most part, you can prob just stick with what you're already doing for 2H.



Thanks. I cribbed from his site when I put together my OH 4LLL sheet. Good to know the rest are worth using, too.


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## shadowslice e (Dec 9, 2015)

EvilGnome6 said:


> That's a DNF!



Well, do you have a better suggestion of what to do? Clearly I wouldn't do it in comp but it's good enough for practise.


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## mafergut (Dec 9, 2015)

EvilGnome6 said:


> Should I learn full OLL and PLL for OH? It's not an event I care much about but I find myself doing it a lot when I'm casually solving or walking around. Mostly, I find it annoying having to 2-look a case for which I already know a 2H alg.



I'm in the same boat and I don't really know what to do. I have been relearning (OH amnesia) some OLLs and most PLLs I already use for 2H but some are really horrible for OH and I end up at times having to do 4LLL. PLLs I have (re)learned all except for the Rs, which I do with an A followed by a U or J(b?) but my V and Ns are really terrible OH. But OLLs I still can't do like more than half OH. I think for some of those I'm going to search for new algs and learn them for OH and maybe as an alternative for 2H as well. Will surely check Antoine Cantin's algs.


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## sqAree (Dec 9, 2015)

In theory learning an alg Set like PLL or OLL with different algs (for OH) is a lot easier than learning it for the first time because the part of recognition is free.

Antoine's OH algs are great, all of them. I learnt his PLLs except for F, Y and Rb where the 2H alg is good enough.
Now I only learnt OLL for 2H recently but I think I will learn the OH OLL algs in no time.

Check out this V perm for OH: R' U2 R U2 L U' R' U L' U L U' R U L'. As much as I hate V on 2H, I love it on OH.


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## mafergut (Dec 9, 2015)

sqAree said:


> In theory learning an alg Set like PLL or OLL with different algs (for OH) is a lot easier than learning it for the first time because the part of recognition is free.
> 
> Antoine's OH algs are great, all of them. I learnt his PLLs except for F, Y and Rb where the 2H alg is good enough.
> Now I only learnt OLL for 2H recently but I think I will learn the OH OLL algs in no time.
> ...



It's definitely better than mine but, anyway, with so many changes between L U and R it's difficult to execute like that. I have tried rotating first on z so that it becomes U, R and D but still not confortable with it. Do you know of a video on how to actually execute it or can give written advice on how to do it?


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## sqAree (Dec 9, 2015)

mafergut said:


> It's definitely better than mine but, anyway, with so many changes between L U and R it's difficult to execute like that. I have tried rotating first on z so that it becomes U, R and D but still not confortable with it. Do you know of a video on how to actually execute it or can give written advice on how to do it?



I personally can't execute <R,U,D> algs OH properly.
Antoine has a video series about how to execute his OH PLLs: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W9U1a5Lsyj4.

I execute V like: R' U2' R U2'
L (middle push on DBL)
U' R' U z
U' R U R' D R U'.


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## mafergut (Dec 9, 2015)

sqAree said:


> I personally can't execute <R,U,D> algs OH properly.
> Antoine has a video series about how to execute his OH PLLs: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W9U1a5Lsyj4.
> 
> I execute V like: R' U2' R U2'
> ...



Thanks a lot for all the info and the link. I have checked in the wiki and I have seen an alternative for the alg that is also worth considering for people who like wide Rs in OH:

R' U2 R U2 L U' R' U r' F r U' R U L'

it avoids a couple of Ls or the mid-alg z rotation but z rotations are fast OH so I will try your way first.


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## sqAree (Dec 9, 2015)

mafergut said:


> Thanks a lot for all the info and the link. I have checked in the wiki and I have seen an alternative for the alg that is also worth considering for people who like wide Rs in OH:
> 
> R' U2 R U2 L U' R' U r' F r U' R U L'
> 
> it avoids a couple of Ls or the mid-alg z rotation but z rotations are fast OH so I will try your way first.



And I will try your alg, it looks convincing. I'm not too at ease with wide Rs for OH (especially not when switching between R and r frequently) but your alg seems fingertricky.


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## Chree (Dec 9, 2015)

mafergut said:


> Thanks a lot for all the info and the link. I have checked in the wiki and I have seen an alternative for the alg that is also worth considering for people who like wide Rs in OH:
> 
> R' U2 R U2 L U' R' U r' F r U' R U L'
> 
> it avoids a couple of Ls or the mid-alg z rotation but z rotations are fast OH so I will try your way first.



For the V perm, I start the initial R' U2 R U2, and do a z, but then I never rotate back and execute the rest of the alg RUD. Once you get familiar with the triggers (there are a couple Niklas like movements in there), it's pretty easy to make the adjustment. Maybe that'll help you if it's the rotations that are bothering you.

Once you get used to the z rotations, they're really not bad at all. The best thing you can do is just pick a few RUL or RUD algs and drill them over and over again. V perm is an alg I still practice whenever I'm just waiting for the bus or something.



sqAree said:


> And I will try your alg, it looks convincing. I'm not too at ease with wide Rs for OH (especially not when switching between R and r frequently) but your alg seems fingertricky.



Same thing. Just find a few algs with both Rs and wide Rs and drill, drill, drill. You're especially gonna need 'em for full OLL, like dot cases.

My favorite cases for R/Rw accuracy practice might be OLL 56/57, 21/22, 10 and 8. And of course the whole variety of fat sune, double fat sunes, and antisune varients... all good practice. Fat Sunes are everywhere with dot OLLs, so might as well get used to 'em.

Both of you guys should also check out Phil Yu's OH videos, if you haven't already. He has good tips for how to execute some moves and increase TPS. Here's a couple linked form Antoine:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-_sHejYBzHU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t5O7Ac5dFes


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## newtonbase (Dec 9, 2015)

I'm ending up with some well scrambled cubes trying to follow these PLLs. I seem to take between 2.5 and 5 for mine.


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## mafergut (Dec 9, 2015)

Chree said:


> For the V perm, I start the initial R' U2 R U2, and do a z, but then I never rotate back and execute the rest of the alg RUD. Once you get familiar with the triggers (there are a couple Niklas like movements in there), it's pretty easy to make the adjustment. Maybe that'll help you if it's the rotations that are bothering you. [...]
> 
> Same thing. Just find a few algs with both Rs and wide Rs and drill, drill, drill. You're especially gonna need 'em for full OLL, like dot cases. [...]
> 
> ...



Thanks! My issue with that alg is that even though RUD is better than LUR I still lose some time specially with D' moves, trying to do both Rs and Ds with my pinky is not very ergonomic. That's why I thought the r' F r variant was worth trying but I better get used to RUDs as I'm trying a new Na perm that's just that all the time, as you probably know if you read yesterday's posts in this very thread 

Regarding wide Rs and OLLs I completely agree, just by reviewing Antoine's OH OLL algs I just realized there are lots of wide Rs.

I will check Yu's videos!!!


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## Chree (Dec 9, 2015)

mafergut said:


> trying to do both Rs and Ds with my pinky is not very ergonomic.
> 
> ...
> 
> I will check Yu's videos!!!



I think both Antoine and Phil say this at one point. Do the D's with your ring finger. See if that helps.


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## muchacho (Dec 10, 2015)

A 27 seconds ao5 (but I'm still averaging like 29). 3 with blue/white, 1 blue/yellow and 1 orange/white on the right.


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## mafergut (Dec 10, 2015)

muchacho said:


> A 27 seconds ao5 (but I'm still averaging like 29). 3 with blue/white, 1 blue/yellow and 1 orange/white on the right.



Nice two last solves (23 and 22 seconds), really. A bit too many pauses in the other ones during F2B. I like your turning style but I really hate your colour scheme, if you don't mind me saying that


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## muchacho (Dec 10, 2015)

Yeah, pauses are a problem.

I'm quite colourblind, and that colour scheme works for me (but I'll change the grey to a slightly darker one), so I don't mind if it looks like crap


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## h2f (Dec 10, 2015)

muchacho said:


> A 27 seconds ao5 (but I'm still averaging like 29). 3 with blue/white, 1 blue/yellow and 1 orange/white on the right.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IFhzWArQKtY



Nice. I've found very hard to be y/x2 neutral so congratulations for that.

I was trying to film my sub 1:30 3bld solve (or around). But I had a lot of dnfs cuased my small mistakes. I've decided to download on youtube two of them. The first is 1:20 (DNF) - I havent noticed twisted corner. The second is 1:43 with a little lockup on parity. That was a hard solve: 13 edges targets, 5 corners and 2 twisted corners and of course parity. I think pretty decent solve though memo should be a little shorter (about 10 seconds) but I was so desperated to catch a 3bld solve... 











Edit: I've made a reconstrucion of 1:43. Memo was around 45, execution 58. 142 stm/58 seconds=2,45 tps. Thought it's no more than 2. 



Spoiler



x' //
z' D2 R U R' D2 R U' R' z //
F U' L' U R2 U' L U R2 F'//
R2 B L B' R2 B L' B' //
B2 U R U' R' U R U' R' L' R U R' U' R U R' U' L B2//
B M2 U R' U' M2 U R U' B' //
M2 U R U' M2 U R' U'//
B' M2 R' U R U' M2 U R' U' R B//
U L U' L' U M2 U' L U L' B' R B M2 B' R' B U'//
U M2 U' L2 U M2 U' L2
B L2 B' M2 B L2 B' U R2 U' M2 U R2 U' //
L U' L' U M2 U' L U L' M2//
y L2 R U R' U' R' F R2 U' R' U' R U R' F' Rw2
alg.cubing.net


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## Jason Green (Dec 10, 2015)

muchacho said:


> A 27 seconds ao5 (but I'm still averaging like 29). 3 with blue/white, 1 blue/yellow and 1 orange/white on the right.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IFhzWArQKtY


Good job! I need to film some more soon.


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## JanW (Dec 10, 2015)

Nice videos h2f! Looks calm and controlled, and hardly any pauses during edges.

I also thought about what to do with my glasses. So far I've only shut my eyes for the solve, but if I want to use a blindfold, I need to get used to memo without glasses. It would probably be wise to start doing that immediately.


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## muchacho (Dec 10, 2015)

I think I'll need a custom blindfold, apparently I need my glasses to memorize cubes.


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## mark49152 (Dec 10, 2015)

JanW said:


> I also thought about what to do with my glasses. So far I've only shut my eyes for the solve, but if I want to use a blindfold, I need to get used to memo without glasses. It would probably be wise to start doing that immediately.


Yeah nice vids h2f, especially the success . At home I wear glasses and shut eyes. I've never had an accidental peek, even during 4BLD, so it works fine. In comp, I take my glasses off a few mins before the solve to give my eyes time to adjust. I don't feel like it affects my memo, but it might, since I'm not as comfortable without glasses. Maybe I should try it at home. I'm about +3 short sighted.


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## mafergut (Dec 10, 2015)

muchacho said:


> Yeah, pauses are a problem.
> 
> I'm quite colourblind, and that colour scheme works for me (but I'll change the grey to a slightly darker one), so I don't mind if it looks like crap



I didn't know that 
It' not that it looks like crap, just that it looks a bit weird but if it works for you then it's the best colour scheme in the world!


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## newtonbase (Dec 10, 2015)

31.51 AO5 PB. I only had time for 8 solves unfortunately.


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## Selkie (Dec 10, 2015)

Knew the new reading glasses were paying off, a pb Ao5 and so pleased with it too, 0.3x seconds off my old best...

Average of 5: 13.40
1. (12.44) R2 U2 F2 U' R2 U2 L2 F2 U' R2 F' R D R2 B' L F U L F2 R 
2. 12.56 L2 R2 U2 B2 R2 U2 F U2 B' D2 F' D B' U L2 F' L' R2 U B' 
3. 13.47 R2 F2 U2 F2 L' F2 R' D2 B2 F2 R D' B' F L' R B2 F' R2 U' B' 
4. (14.43) U2 R2 U L2 B2 U R2 U R2 U2 B' U' L2 B' D R' D R' F L' 
5. 14.17 B2 L2 D2 B2 D2 F2 R2 U2 L U2 R B D' U' B2 L' U' R B' L R 



muchacho said:


> A 27 seconds ao5 (but I'm still averaging like 29). 3 with blue/white, 1 blue/yellow and 1 orange/white on the right.



Not a roux man myself but good job a lot of potential still there 



h2f said:


> Nice. I've found very hard to be y/x2 neutral so congratulations for that.
> 
> I was trying to film my sub 1:30 3bld solve (or around). But I had a lot of dnfs cuased my small mistakes. I've decided to download on youtube two of them. The first is 1:20 (DNF) - I havent noticed twisted corner. The second is 1:43 with a little lockup on parity. That was a hard solve: 13 edges targets, 5 corners and 2 twisted corners and of course parity. I think pretty decent solve though memo should be a little shorter (about 10 seconds) but I was so desperated to catch a 3bld solve...



This is just the motivation I need, good solve. Can I ask what your memo method is? I feel my Person/Object/Place method is ok and it the execution letting me down but if I am going to be trying to get it right over Christmas, I want to make sure


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## h2f (Dec 11, 2015)

Thank you all for good words. It's very motivating to keep practice 3bld. 



Selkie said:


> This is just the motivation I need, good solve. Can I ask what your memo method is? I feel my Person/Object/Place method is ok and it the execution letting me down but if I am going to be trying to get it right over Christmas, I want to make sure



I think my memo is the same as yours. I do memo edges first with letter pairs. Every letter pair makes person/object/place or sometimes (very rare) action. First 3 words (or 4) I connect in sentence/image. Next the other, this means 1-3 words in 2nd sentence/image. In 1:43 solve there were 7 words in 2 sentences. For corners I do audiopairs - I conntect 2 letters in a pair. But when you're just starting 3bld I think better option is to do the same as edges, because your memo and execution takes much longer and you can forget the memo. I do that way in multibld. Exectuion: corners first.


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## DeeDubb (Dec 11, 2015)

muchacho said:


> A 27 seconds ao5 (but I'm still averaging like 29). 3 with blue/white, 1 blue/yellow and 1 orange/white on the right.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IFhzWArQKtY



Nice solves! I just recommend that you take your time to plan out more of your FB. Make sure you have at least a 2x2 totally planned out and you have a rough idea at least of where your last corner/edge will be so you aren't looking around for them. Take longer than 15 seconds if you need, because eventually you'll get faster at that. A good start leads to good solves 

Also, You should join up with us on the Roux Facebook Page if you use Facebook. We have our weekly competition going, with people in all time ranges, so you'd fit right in there. It's a great motivator, and a lot of people have progressed pretty quickly from the weekly competition.


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## muchacho (Dec 11, 2015)

DeeDubb said:


> Nice solves! I just recommend that you take your time to plan out more of your FB. Make sure you have at least a 2x2 totally planned out and you have a rough idea at least of where your last corner/edge will be so you aren't looking around for them. Take longer than 15 seconds if you need, because eventually you'll get faster at that. A good start leads to good solves


Thanks, my FB (and the second too) is not improving much, I know I should focus in that, and I'll do that very soon.



DeeDubb said:


> Also, You should join up with us on the Roux Facebook Page if you use Facebook. We have our weekly competition going, with people in all time ranges, so you'd fit right in there. It's a great motivator, and a lot of people have progressed pretty quickly from the weekly competition.


I would love to join in, but I don't do facebook.



Selkie said:


> Not a roux man myself but good job a lot of potential still there


Thanks and congrats for that average! I just "need" to be sub 20, I hope there is potencial for that (I doubt there will be for more than that).



newtonbase said:


> 31.51 AO5 PB. I only had time for 8 solves unfortunately.


If I practiced as little as you seem to do I would not progress, not even a bit, congrats for your new PB!


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## mafergut (Dec 11, 2015)

Selkie said:


> Knew the new reading glasses were paying off, a pb Ao5 and so pleased with it too, 0.3x seconds off my old best...
> 
> Average of 5: 13.40
> 1. (12.44) R2 U2 F2 U' R2 U2 L2 F2 U' R2 F' R D R2 B' L F U L F2 R
> ...



Oh, man! That's pretty dang fast!!! It also gives me hope that I can get close to your times... some day.


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## h2f (Dec 11, 2015)

Oh yeah, your times Selkie are amazing. Camera?


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## EvilGnome6 (Dec 11, 2015)

I just got some mockups done of the t-shirts I'll be making available at the next competition I'm organizing.


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## Selkie (Dec 11, 2015)

Thank you all and at 46 years young I still feel there is plenty of room for improvement. Sorry no, I did not get that average on film, in fact I don't have any sub 14 average on film. Got a few 14.x averages on camera, such as this one:-


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## MarcelP (Dec 11, 2015)

Very nice solves Chris! That twelve was sweet. Too bad for the lock up in the 13 solve. that could have been an 11 sec solve


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## Jason Green (Dec 11, 2015)

Selkie said:


> Thank you all and at 46 years young I still feel there is plenty of room for improvement. Sorry no, I did not get that average on film, in fact I don't have any sub 14 average on film. Got a few 14.x averages on camera, such as this one:-
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DZpUivh8zwg


Yes those are awesome! People used to say sub 10 averages were impossible, so I guess now we've just updated our thinking that it's only impossible for older people? I say we change the way people think again!


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## Selkie (Dec 11, 2015)

MarcelP said:


> Very nice solves Chris! That twelve was sweet. Too bad for the lock up in the 13 solve. that could have been an 11 sec solve



Thanks Marcel. Yes, that lockup is a shocker when you think OLL was complete at 8.4x. In fact its the same PLL that I messed up on my last comp average. Perhaps time to look for a replacement alg 

Going to try (and probably fail) to get a sub 14 Ao5 on camera over Xmas. The Christmas cubing to do list is getting bigger and bigger 



Jason Green said:


> Yes those are awesome! People used to say sub 10 averages were impossible, so I guess now we've just updated our thinking that it's only impossible for older people? I say we change the way people think again!



I couldn't agree more. When I started speed cubing about 5 years ago my eventual goal was global sub 15. My Ao100's are about 16.2-16.5 so still a lot to improve. I keep finding excuses why I cannot get faster and it demotivates me but if I think about it most of my excuses are age related. I'll keep going though key at the moment to to make some comps next year, haven't been to one in a couple of years and they are great motivation.

With all that said, this thread offers me as much motivation as anything else. To have people of a similar age enjoying the same passion and doing well really spurs me on


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## muchacho (Dec 11, 2015)

Selkie said:


> Going to try (and probably fail) to get a sub 14 Ao5 on camera over Xmas.


Hope you succeed, I love to see those fast averages of even older people than me, it's a great motivation.


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## muchacho (Dec 11, 2015)

I've timed 30 first blocks with 15 seconds inspection and it seems it takes me 8.5 seconds.

In a 10 seconds Roux solve the first block is done in like 2 seconds, so for a 29 average like mine it should take less than 6 seconds. I'm going to switch (from right now) to unlimited inspection until I get that time where it should be (with reasonable inspection times).


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## mafergut (Dec 11, 2015)

Selkie said:


> Thank you all and at 46 years young I still feel there is plenty of room for improvement. Sorry no, I did not get that average on film, in fact I don't have any sub 14 average on film. Got a few 14.x averages on camera, such as this one:-



Oh my! You don't even look like you're turning that fast! And that PLL lockup in the 13.84... without it the solve could have easily been an 11.xx. And I thought that being 45 years young, as you say  I was already reaching my peak at barely sub-20... You're an inspiration, sub-15 is definitely possible.

EDIT:



MarcelP said:


> Very nice solves Chris! That twelve was sweet. Too bad for the lock up in the 13 solve. that could have been an 11 sec solve



I swear I hadn't read your post before answering!


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## h2f (Dec 11, 2015)

EvilGnome6 said:


> I just got some mockups done of the t-shirts I'll be making available at the next competition I'm organizing.
> 
> http://azcubing.com/AZCubingTShirt.png



I think one of the projects I was voting for. 



Selkie said:


> Thank you all and at 46 years young I still feel there is plenty of room for improvement. Sorry no, I did not get that average on film, in fact I don't have any sub 14 average on film. Got a few 14.x averages on camera, such as this one:-
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DZpUivh8zwg



Great! 

I've filmed my 1:03 3bld. I was too lazy to put some books to get better camera angle but luckily wasnt to lazy to turn camer on. My previous times today were around 2 minutes so I was excited when I put blindfold off. Memo was around 27, execution 34. 96 stm/34 = 2.82 TPS








Spoiler



U R2 B2 L' U2 L2 D2 F2 R' F2 L D F D2 R' U' F L D2 U2 Rw Uw'

z'y D L2 B' R B L2 B' R' B D' //
F' R' B2 R F R' B2 R //
y L' U' L U L' U' L U R U' L' U L U' L' U L R' y' //
U2 M' U2 M' B' R B U R2 U' M2 U R2 U' B' R' B //
B' U R U' M2 U R' U' M2 B //
U R' U' M2 U R U' B L' B' M2 B L B'//
B' R' B M2 B' R R B M2 B' R' B
U' M U2 M U2 M2 U

alg.cubing.net


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## Jason Green (Dec 11, 2015)

muchacho said:


> I've timed 30 first blocks with 15 seconds inspection and it seems it takes me 8.5 seconds.
> 
> In a 10 seconds Roux solve the first block is done in like 2 seconds, so for a 29 average like mine it should take less than 6 seconds. I'm going to switch (from right now) to unlimited inspection until I get that time where it should be (with reasonable inspection times).


I am switching back mostly to untimed inspection. I watched Brian Kremer's cross boot camp from the sub 30 thread, it was pretty basic for the most part. But as I watched the simple cases of doing one or two cross pieces progress to doing the whole cross without looking, it made me realize I could be planning my whole cross more if I worked on it.


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## mafergut (Dec 11, 2015)

h2f said:


> I've filmed my 1:03 3bld. I was too lazy to put some books to get better camera angle but luckily wasnt to lazy to turn camer on. My previous times today were around 2 minutes so I was excited when I put blindfold off. Memo was around 27, execution 34. 96 stm/34 = 2.82 TPS



Wow! Nice job man! You sound happy at the end too, even if I don't get what you say 
That solve is on par with some sighted CFOP solves I come up with at times. Almost half a minute inspection and another half execution with some messed up OLL/PLL. You and Selkie together are lowering my morale a lot this week 

That time is bordering on World Class! If you think that Feliks and A. Cantin (yeah, I know, not 3BLD specialists but WR cubers both of them) are around 40-45 seconds at 3BLD... this is serious stuff!


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## h2f (Dec 11, 2015)

I think all is uderstandable. 

I think bld methods and CFOP are not comparable. During memo you memorize whole cube and during CFOP you dont memo cube - instead of it you have look ahead which makes solve harder than with blindfolded method. 

Selkie's solves are great! It gives me so much hope it is possible for me to be sub-15.


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## mafergut (Dec 11, 2015)

h2f said:


> I think all is uderstandable.
> 
> I think bld methods and CFOP are not comparable. During memo you memorize whole cube and during CFOP you dont memo cube - instead of it you have look ahead which makes solve harder than with blindfolded method.
> 
> Selkie's solves are great! It gives me so much hope it is possible for me to be sub-15.



Yeah, you're completely right. My comparison of 3BLD and CFOP had the only purpose of making fun of my lack of skills. You can do blind a 98 move solve in 34 seconds, which is more or less the equivalent TPS of a 20 sec CFOP solve (avg. move count of a CFOP solve around 55-60 moves) with not much more "inspection" time to memo all the cube than I need to plan my cross.


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## muchacho (Dec 11, 2015)

Great BLD solve, congrats!

Translation please, I'm guessing "Yes... Yes... Cool... Almost... Wow... Almost sub-Faz... Almost sub-Faz... Wow"


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## h2f (Dec 11, 2015)

Translation: there is, there is (polish jest - sound like "yes" in english - means there is. But in here means also "got you")... Holy crap... What.. Wow.. What the time... What the time... Wow...


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## mark49152 (Dec 11, 2015)

h2f said:


> I've filmed my 1:03 3bld.


Awesome solve, and with M2 too


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## Jason Green (Dec 11, 2015)

That blind solve is pretty awesome!!


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## Selkie (Dec 11, 2015)

Absolutely, so motivating. Think I will start on my own attempts tomorrow


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## Jason Green (Dec 11, 2015)

Selkie said:


> Absolutely, so motivating. Think I will start on my own attempts tomorrow


I might also if I was averaging 15 on sighted solves.


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## Chree (Dec 11, 2015)

Yeah, those BLD times are pretty awesome. I guess I oughta start practicing, too... since I signed up for BLD in a January comp


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## h2f (Dec 12, 2015)

It's nice to read all those words. Method I use is 3style for corners and advanced M2 (used twice in this solve). I'm not sure but I think I can call it 3style too. At the moment I'm reading and practicining about advanced M2 tricks in the thread Mark did. The thread is awsome. Maybe I will put there one idea about a trick I've found.


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## muchacho (Dec 12, 2015)

Chree said:


> I always liked: R' U R U' R' F' U' F R U R' F R' F' R U' R
> 
> Learned it from Felix's PLL video. Drilled it for the entire duration of the movie "Looper". So now when I get it in practice, I always think of Joseph Gordon Levitt and/or Bruce Willis.



I tried a lot of algs and finally decided I was going to use that N perm, but today I found this similar one that is a bit easier for me:

R' U R U' R' F' U' F R U R' U' R d' R U R'


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## mark49152 (Dec 12, 2015)

h2f said:


> Maybe I will put there one idea about a trick I've found.


Yes, please do! I noticed that you used a couple of tricks, and also that you solved Q with setup to M2. These days I use (U M')3 (U M) (U M')4. It feels faster but I'm not sure it really is .


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## h2f (Dec 12, 2015)

I havent checked what is faster but setting up Q by U/U' or B/B' is much easier for me to execute/look forward. But in that solve I just did it straight with that long alg. 

I put my idea in your thread.


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## Selkie (Dec 12, 2015)

Well with my wife busy with a degree assignment today I decided to do some 5x5 and some more ... and kept going...

I am never, ever doing that again. Hands now feel 146 years old. Really slowed up at the end and only just pulled it sub 2:30 on the last solve!

*5x5*

number of times: 100/100
best time: 2:03.45
worst time: 2:55.80

current avg5: 2:37.83 (σ = 6.50)
*best avg5: 2:17.75* (σ = 5.89)

current avg12: 2:34.06 (σ = 8.04)
*best avg12: 2:23.54* (σ = 8.70)

current avg100: 2:29.97 (σ = 8.22)
*best avg100: 2:29.97* (σ = 8.22)

session avg: 2:29.97 (σ = 8.22)
session mean: 2:29.88




Spoiler



Average of 100: 2:29.97
1. 2:35.06 F B' f' L' f2 r2 L l f d F d' U2 F b' U' l2 U' l B l R' u b U l R2 u2 b2 l R2 U' d2 L F l' b2 U r' U2 r2 l f B d F2 d B' R' d' U2 B b R2 b2 f' U r2 D f2 
2. 2:40.56 b2 u' L2 d F' L F' d' u2 B' L U d' l d' r l' f r' d' l' F' f u2 d2 l2 d' b r L d B r D2 u2 L' R2 b2 D2 U2 r2 U2 d L2 U D2 F2 l' d2 D' U2 r d2 D' f u2 B2 l' r R2 
3. 2:30.01 r' F2 B d' D' u B2 u' R F2 l2 D' b' r' R2 D2 U2 F2 d u F' U' B d' R2 f d2 r' b D F' U L2 f2 F' b' B2 L2 R2 B2 L' D R' l' d2 B2 u2 b2 F L2 d D2 r R2 u b2 L d b D' 
4. 2:34.29 R l' L2 r B L' R' D' U f L2 B l u2 r' L2 D2 B F' D2 f B2 r2 u2 L d' D' L' r R l2 f' d' R U F r2 u' B R' l' d l' b' U2 d2 L2 f' l2 U2 B' R U2 D' B2 F2 r' f2 l2 L 
5. 2:25.40 R2 l' r' d2 L B2 U u' b l' U' L' r' l2 D2 l' d r' f2 R' d l' r' R d' L2 b2 d' f B2 b' L' r2 f2 L' R2 l2 F2 R r U2 b2 r U R2 d b2 r2 u D2 R' B u2 F' f2 u2 f2 b2 D' f2 
6. 2:29.23 u' r f2 F u l' f' B' d2 L' b2 U u' D R2 F' l L u' l' f R' D U' r' R2 F L2 b2 B' U2 u b2 D2 B f2 r' f2 b r2 F2 f2 u' R' l' f' L f u' R' D' u d' L2 l2 R' b' f2 u2 r 
7. 2:30.36 l d U b l2 F' U F r2 d2 f l2 d b' U' u d r2 b' r' u' B' U2 L2 R' b2 D' L2 u d' f2 L2 b2 F B f' r' d D R2 L2 r f r f u2 F2 D B r2 F' R D B2 F R' u L' b L' 
8. 2:24.18 u' r U l2 d2 b U2 B2 U2 b f2 l' U' u' R' L f' d' b' l' f u' U2 b' U2 r d2 R2 F l' d' r' U' L2 b' B2 D2 d' u r' U2 D2 B' L B' L b u' d2 U2 f2 u f' R2 d2 u b f l L 
9. 2:34.60 r2 D2 R2 D' l' f' U2 F' L B l' L' f u2 D R2 U2 D B2 b2 F d' B2 R' d' U B f' l b D' l L' f2 d2 R' u2 F2 B' r B' b R' r2 U' b2 F2 d U' R2 d2 D2 L' D2 L' F B d F2 R2 
10. 2:32.28 R2 F' u b L' f2 u2 f' U B r' L2 B' u2 b D2 L2 U r F2 L B d u' U' r' U' f' F L' D b2 B R2 l D' F' L' f' l b2 f B2 d U' r2 d r f2 L' b' l' D2 u2 B L' D2 F' R r2 
11. 2:41.51 F' r' d2 L F2 u f l' u2 B R2 d2 R' B' l2 L R' d' F2 l B2 R2 d U2 F' d2 U R2 U' u' r2 B2 r' f' U' D' b U F D B2 F D' U' R b l2 D l2 B' b2 r' L' u2 F d' F2 U r L' 
12. 2:34.67 R' u R2 f d D r2 R' f l b U2 r2 b u' U r L D R D' B2 d' R L2 d' r2 u d' l D U' d u' L2 b2 l d U' b B2 u F' f D' b2 f R' f2 d L D' f' L2 l2 b' F' f2 l2 U 
13. 2:47.74 F' d2 U2 F2 D U2 F2 u2 B L' r' D2 b L2 D2 d b' B r D F' L2 F2 U2 F f' l R b2 L2 l' F B2 L F l' b U' D' l2 d F R U' R' u2 b f' F' U2 u d' f2 l' F2 r2 d2 u' L f2 
14. 2:32.35 B' f2 D l' r L2 b B2 D' d2 L u' r2 d u' b' l' f' F' r' D' d U' u L' d F B' b' R' L r' U2 r' d2 D' R' l' r D2 d r' L u' L' U' B2 R2 U2 D r2 d D2 F r L f' D' u' l' 
15. 2:16.54 l' d2 f' l2 u2 B' f r l' U R l L B2 L r2 u2 r2 L u' R B' R2 f2 D2 r' l2 F L2 l u2 l' U' R2 F B2 D2 u U2 B d' u2 r L' b D2 B' F b' L d B2 U f' r b2 L R u2 b' 
16. 2:32.27 f2 D u f' R F' f U2 R' l' f' D' F U' B2 F' l f u F2 r' f' L2 b2 f d r2 f2 r U f l U B l' F d2 u l F2 b2 l d' l' d D F2 r d2 L2 D r2 D B' b' r b' L2 u' b2 
17. 2:32.72 R' U' u b U2 r2 R2 d' l' F' d2 r2 l' u D R2 b d b' U' b' l d l R2 d2 D2 b l' b' R' U' b2 f' F r u2 B l L2 F' d U' l2 d2 u D' F' r2 b d2 r R' d2 f b2 F' l f F2 
18. 2:34.50 D2 B b2 l' B2 U2 d F2 f' R r' U' R L f' R' L' d2 r' F' B' l2 U' L2 R' F' B r' b2 L2 b D l' r U' D L' r' R u l b2 L2 R2 D2 r2 d B2 b2 l' b' B2 l2 D' B l' L d u F' 
19. 2:38.80 L2 D L2 B2 f d' D2 l R2 U2 d2 B2 F' R u2 D2 b' B l' F U' d2 f2 D' u2 d' R D' r d2 l' f B2 L' u2 R2 U r d r l2 U2 F' R d2 r R2 b2 L2 B2 f D' b l' B2 b D2 B' r f' 
20. 2:24.48 R' d' U l2 b' L R D d2 u2 U2 b2 r2 L F' l D2 l L2 F d2 U2 D u2 f2 B2 b' L B' R' r2 U d f d f' r L2 d2 U' F f' U B u2 b B' L b' R f r' R2 b B2 u U2 f2 l2 u 
21. (2:10.06) D2 b' f' R' f d B' D' u l2 b2 D U2 f' d b2 B' D2 b2 R' r' u2 B F2 f' l B u2 l' r' L' f' B' U l2 f2 U2 b F B u' D' U' b2 L2 u r B' r' R2 l' B' r2 F' L' R' f B u2 L2 
22. 2:26.00 u' F r' L f' b' R2 D' B' L l2 u d2 D' F L f' D L2 F' b' d2 l d2 B' u D2 f' U2 r' B' b U R2 L' r u L u r u D2 f' L2 f2 L2 D' L' F' u B' D' l' D' B l U' D r U2 
23. 2:32.31 U' D b F d f U L' D' r l' B2 U u' d f' b' B' D u' l2 f R2 u2 D2 F2 R' f' R f' B U b r B l u' b' f' F2 u2 f2 l D' F2 L' f' D l D' F2 d' R2 l' D' d' u b' R B 
24. 2:27.04 B' F2 f2 r2 L' F U' b' l' U R2 L' D R l r2 f u f2 l U' u2 R2 b' U' r' u' R u2 f U f' R2 d2 F2 D B2 f' l2 u2 r2 d2 R b' d' L2 u2 F2 f l d' l2 r d' D' R B2 F2 L' d 
25. 2:27.51 f' l2 U d R' l' f R' d D' b' F' d F2 l2 u2 L B2 u2 r F' D r b' u' U2 r' D2 u2 L2 B' u2 L d' L U2 b r d2 B2 r' R' u' U' L' l U2 u2 L2 D U2 f U' L' u' f L' d2 R b' 
26. 2:22.04 B U' r R2 b2 U F2 D' d' f2 U b R' B2 b d2 l' B2 U D R U' b D2 R U B2 u' l' B b2 r' f' R' L2 U' B2 R2 D d r b U2 R' l' L F2 D2 U2 R d2 l2 f' L2 D2 L d l' R u' 
27. 2:29.63 U u l' d F l2 b f2 U' f B D2 d' f2 l2 u' r2 u2 f' L d' R B2 L D2 U2 u' r l B d F' R2 B u R2 u2 D2 b L D' u' f' r' l b F B L2 b L r2 b U2 B' L' U' F2 u L2 
28. (2:55.80) R' r2 l' F2 d u R' f2 b' U D u B b2 u2 F u' b R' L2 b2 r' l D' F b2 R U d' F' d' D2 f' L b L' u D b' f' r2 L' F r U l' r D' F u2 R f' d' U2 B' u f2 l' D2 l 
29. 2:29.68 r2 F2 L2 U2 b2 r2 b2 B2 l' R f' D l r2 F u2 L' B' l' B2 D' L' F2 b' U' d2 F' R F2 B' D R B2 d' l F u U F r U r f' l2 U2 r2 b R' F2 l2 r u' L r2 B2 l' u2 b2 u R2 
30. 2:22.10 U u R u2 R' D' L B u' L f' d' L2 d B l B D' F U2 l2 R u' D2 B L2 D' L F2 b' u L2 U d' R2 b2 d2 f2 R F d' R' U' D2 L d' D l2 b' D r2 U2 b' U2 B' u2 d D R' f 
31. 2:15.40 l' U L' u' l' F2 l b F' f2 L f D' U2 r2 L R2 d2 R L2 u l F l2 f2 l' R' d2 L2 u2 B u F' r2 b2 L' f' u2 r B' b U2 D' b d' l' L F D' U2 F2 R u R U F' l' d' F' D2 
32. 2:17.08 U' l2 U' l2 u L f' u' B' d2 U r2 U2 R2 U r2 L2 b r' b2 D L D f2 r F' d' U' D2 F2 r' B2 L f' L' b2 R' d F b U2 L U b2 u2 r2 d2 R' r' F2 D2 d' u2 l D' u F' f' r L2 
33. (2:52.19) u2 L2 F' D' u' R2 u f2 F2 U2 b' D2 r2 u' r2 u' r' F' u2 b' l d2 B' R b2 d' B2 D2 F B U2 F r l2 b2 l R' F l d2 b2 f' l' b' R2 b2 u r U2 B' L D2 U B' l r L2 b2 d' L2 
34. 2:11.86 u' b L' D F' U2 b2 r2 l U2 r2 B' F2 d' L' d F L' U' d' L2 l' R u' b f l F2 B r l' d f2 R D2 f2 l' L' R B2 L' D' F2 l2 R' U f2 D B f b2 D' l' F U2 B F2 f2 u2 B2 
35. (2:48.51) B' u b' U D' l U' R2 L' B2 f' l b' u B' U r L f' L2 d' F2 b' r B U' f B R f2 r2 R u2 l r' D r2 l' B' u' D r R2 d b' d2 l D' d2 r' F u' b r B' r F d2 B' d2 
36. 2:36.34 f' L R' l' r2 d' b f2 D2 b2 B R2 F' u F D' d2 L2 F' f b l D2 r2 f R2 b' R' D l B l2 L U' r' l' f' F' R2 D u2 B' D b2 B' d2 L' l' b' L l d2 U D r' R2 d' F2 D' L2 
37. 2:22.68 F2 R' b R2 B2 f2 b2 F' r2 l2 R f F2 l f2 l' u2 R' B D2 R B' F2 r' u' b B R L' F2 D d' L2 U2 f2 B' R' U' r' B' L R f' R2 B2 b l' D f' L2 F2 R l' b2 d' B' f b' l' u' 
38. 2:22.64 d l2 U2 B' r b2 F' R' L' U d2 R' l2 d' L B' d' u b L f d' u r D R' u2 f' F' L B f2 l2 R2 b' B L2 d2 B' F2 r2 B L2 D2 d' F2 b R U F' D' F' R l2 D' B2 L' b' r' u2 
39. 2:12.18 D2 l D2 f r b' B d' R f2 b' D r' D d2 l F d F2 d2 F b' r2 f' u' f' u' r D' R F2 L b' f' F U' l F2 B' u' R l U' r L' u' R2 d2 r' B' L f2 l' u2 R2 u2 U F l f 
40. (2:06.48) b' U' b B2 F' u U' B d' U2 D' F f' R2 l' d2 u b2 D U f R2 U B2 D f2 d' B2 f2 F' r2 D' F R U2 R2 d L' D2 l2 r' f2 U d2 l b B F' l' F B l2 f' U2 d f2 b2 r2 F B' 
41. 2:34.42 f2 D b L' D' l2 d b2 d D' u b2 F2 B' f r u' f2 r' u2 D' U' B' L f' d R U2 D' F2 B f u d2 f' D u' l U D' f l' u' U d' r' R2 B2 R2 r L2 b2 l r' b2 U2 F' B b f' 
42. 2:24.06 D2 R' F2 B2 l' R' U2 u2 D' R2 d f l' F2 b R' r' f' D' l2 d2 L2 f2 d2 u D2 L2 f2 R2 r' D' b' r2 B' f d' l' r' u2 F' d' u2 l L d l' L2 r R' D' f' R F b B' L D2 r2 L2 u2 
43. 2:35.36 B D' u R2 r2 f2 U2 D2 u2 R' L2 b' f' d2 B' F d f' u' F2 d2 b' B' r2 b2 u D2 U L2 U u l2 f' b2 F' B L d' L2 U' b r2 f2 R2 l2 b' F2 d' F' R b2 R u2 f2 u2 r2 B U' f B2 
44. 2:33.10 U2 b' f2 r2 F2 B2 d B2 b u' B2 u' f2 r' f L f2 B' l L D' L' F' L' f' F' b2 r F' f' b' u2 U d L' D L' u2 d' B2 l' D F2 r2 U2 u2 L2 B' U2 D2 f2 R b' L' D L' b L2 F2 R2 
45. 2:21.49 D B' R' r' d D U2 F B2 b r' U l2 d2 F2 u' D U2 R2 f' F2 U R' u R' B2 F2 d u' L' r' b r U' l f2 L2 u' d' r2 U' F2 b B' D R2 b F' r2 D' d F' b2 D f L B' U' l2 F2 
46. 2:28.89 d' R2 f' U2 F f L B2 U' F' l2 d' D b' B2 D R' d2 B' f' R b2 L D2 R' F' l b' U' b2 d' r b' U2 D F D2 b' U r' B' L f' r2 L' f' D' R f' l2 B' r' U' F U' l b2 D' r2 U' 
47. 2:29.41 f B' u' R' r2 u' B F2 u d' D b2 r2 F B' D l F u' f2 r' B r R2 U' l2 D' L2 R r' D' L D' L B2 R2 D U' f2 B2 b L' F b L2 U r2 u' R F2 d2 b2 U2 f2 D2 d' b R L' B' 
48. 2:11.58 r2 f d D f2 B2 L' u L2 b l2 d b' l' u2 U r2 F2 r' U' d2 r2 d b d B' l f' d f2 B' L b F2 r' F' d2 r2 F' D' b2 L b2 R D2 B' L d' U2 B r' F R f2 d r D L2 u2 F 
49. 2:22.36 L2 B2 r2 F R2 F' B r' U b2 D2 u R2 r2 F2 U2 r B' b2 F' U D2 l2 B' R' F' u' U D' F2 d U' L2 U2 f r' L' b' D B2 b2 D L2 b f' U' d' r' B' R' B F U2 d2 f' r F2 R D2 U 
50. 2:28.29 D u' F2 D2 f U2 R' d f2 F' L2 U' l2 D2 d' F' R2 f2 d D u2 R2 f D2 r l d2 L R B2 R L2 D L' l U' d' u' R U2 u' l' b L D2 L2 U l2 d' r2 l F2 b2 D' B2 r2 F2 U d f 
51. (2:49.05) F2 d R b2 d' L2 l' r2 B' R' l2 U' b B2 U' D' R' L l' b' B d2 l R b R' d R2 r2 f' R L2 u' b2 B2 f' F2 l2 D U2 L b2 F2 r D2 R2 F' d D2 l' R f' l D2 u2 f2 D L2 R' U 
52. 2:40.16 l D2 r b' U2 R2 l' U' b' f2 R B2 U D' f2 F' R l' b' F' u2 r' L' d2 U B' F U' u2 f2 L' U f r2 b' F u d2 r l' u2 l2 R2 D' B' U' L' d' l2 b2 U' d2 B2 l2 F' u' D r2 f d' 
53. 2:13.60 l' d2 B' b d r D' r R b l' f u2 B' u R F r F2 D2 l2 U' r2 f u' f D' F' D r2 u2 R' l2 f U2 L2 l2 r' f l2 r2 U' R' L2 d2 L2 u F' l' F2 l U2 d' f u' l2 u F2 u' D 
54. 2:15.16 L2 u l U2 B R f U' u' d2 R2 b2 D2 l b D2 u' F D' L2 r b2 r' R' l2 B2 d u' F2 d' D' U L' d L' D f L d2 l' U' b' U B' F D2 b' U' f2 U R D' U u B d' R2 F L2 R2 
55. 2:24.50 R' B2 b' l2 f2 l2 b R2 d' r' U' F2 f' B R2 L2 B' r' B l F' R2 b2 U d D' B F' d' f' d' l2 U2 D' L2 d2 b' B l' r' b' D' l f' B l' F f2 l b2 d U' l' L' F2 L' b' l2 U2 u 
56. (2:09.79) d' U' R2 L b B' r' f2 u f' B2 R r' L' F' f' b U2 l' u F2 D2 F2 r u2 f r2 f' b2 D' r' L R2 F l u' F r' l' F2 L' d B2 r F D2 R' f U' b2 l2 U' l U' B2 L u U' F b2 
57. 2:30.56 d u' U b2 r' d L2 B' F' r2 f2 u' b U R' B U2 b u2 r R u' r2 u L' b2 U2 l r d D2 u' r2 L f' U l d2 u f' B R2 d F u B2 L' R' r' l' f b l2 B U' f2 d2 b2 R' L 
58. 2:29.02 B' r' F' d f2 D2 r2 R2 b2 l d B' U D2 L R' f' L B' R' f2 u2 r2 f' l2 D' d2 f' l2 B' D2 d' r B U' f' l D b B' f r' B U2 D2 b l' u' r' b2 d l L2 R2 F' b2 u l2 B l2 
59. 2:26.94 r2 B f2 l b2 D L2 b F2 l b2 D2 U2 L b' l2 L r f' d2 u2 r F r B b D' B2 u F2 f U2 D L' l2 f2 b D R d' r b' B L b2 d u2 L U2 L r' U' u F r2 L u2 f2 F b 
60. 2:26.21 u2 D U2 b f L' b' F' L B r' u R B2 d2 u' f' R' b r' D r U u F2 r2 R2 f d f2 L' u2 D' b' u' B U2 R2 l' f' u R2 d2 F2 B' u' L2 B' b D' L2 D2 l' L2 u' f2 d U' L R 
61. 2:39.27 d' b2 B' F u2 d L B2 U2 f2 B2 D2 R u B' D' b' L' R' l' B2 r' L' u' r u2 b' l' D d' l' f' R' D2 d b' B d2 f2 L d2 r2 U D' f2 U u D2 r u' B2 l b2 f L' U2 b2 U' R' r' 
62. 2:32.56 u2 U' b' B' l2 b2 R2 f' R L d2 B' l' r' B2 b u' f B r' R2 f2 B2 r2 l f2 U2 r2 b L' B L' l2 u B2 R2 B2 D' R2 U b l' f' D' L2 D u' R' l2 u2 d f' L2 b2 F r2 R' L f' R2 
63. 2:43.28 D' u' R' r' B2 d2 f' l F2 U D2 b2 B' u' F D' F2 r l' b' B2 L' u' b' F L' R u2 b' d2 R2 B2 b R2 d L B l' B2 u L2 r' d f d l2 F' r' L' l D2 U R' B2 l U L' R r2 f 
64. 2:32.39 U2 D B' U' r' l2 B' f' l F2 U2 F2 D2 f R2 U' d2 l2 R2 r d' B U r' u F2 B' U d' D f' R u D U R2 b' r' F2 U2 u2 f r' D' U2 R2 U2 R b' l2 r2 D l' B' d b2 B' R' D2 F2 
65. (2:05.68) b F' r2 f' F2 u2 L R' r' D' l B' U u2 R f' B' d U2 F' B2 U B2 F2 L' U' B2 R' r B' u2 f2 B F D' l F' l' D' f F2 l' r2 b' B F L l' U R' l' B f2 F' l' L U l2 U' r2 
66. 2:20.69 R' B2 D' F u' L' l' U' l2 D L' r' u' U' R2 F2 D' F' R' f F' U f R B2 l f2 B' F l' d' l' f' b D2 r2 B f U2 r' R f U' b' r' L2 B2 b R r2 U2 R2 b l b2 u U b2 r' D2 
67. 2:24.92 l' L2 f' b2 B2 d' u' r' B' L2 b2 l U u2 B2 b2 d R' f' D2 B2 D' R2 l u d B R' D' L' R d2 L2 u2 B2 D u2 l2 D' f2 b' D' f2 r' R2 l F2 R' f F2 l' r u' d L' f b2 B2 F' l' 
68. 2:21.13 U' f' u r' u b2 R b' L b B l F2 f2 B2 L U' d' u R' d2 u2 l' R2 f' U' B2 u2 L D L' D' r b' B' R f2 L l2 B f b L B2 F b2 D2 r f2 F B R F R2 u D2 F u U' B 
69. 2:38.50 l' d2 F' f b D' b r u' B' D2 F2 f l' B2 D f B2 b F2 U' D' F2 B' U' l F R l' D U r2 d' l R' F2 R2 B' d R' F' d2 u D2 l' D2 r2 F' D F f' l r' F' f2 B' b' u' b2 F 
70. 2:22.16 r b D2 f' b' u B L D R L' d' r' d2 L' D u R U2 f2 R f' u2 b2 B2 f L b2 D2 L2 r2 l' f2 d2 f' d' F2 R2 l U l' b d l' D' d2 u2 L' u' L R b2 d' l2 r2 R2 L' d b' r' 
71. 2:30.70 l' r2 f2 D l' d' L U b D' r2 R' f' U2 L d b B R2 L2 U2 u f R2 b f' B L' R2 D r b L l' r2 U f' R2 u f2 U2 R l2 f' l' F2 d' u R' D d' u2 l' u F b2 r' B' F2 l' 
72. 2:34.84 D u L2 r2 u L U r l' L R b' f2 U F b r' R' b' F L2 U2 D2 L d2 f u2 U L D2 B u R f B' u2 L2 D' B F2 b l2 u' B l2 U2 d' D2 b2 l r' u' D F D2 d b' U l2 R' 
73. 2:33.43 b B' d' f' d' L2 R u' F D f2 b U u r2 l2 B' L d' B U l r' b' U F' U r' U2 d2 F2 u2 F2 r' D l R' U f u2 b2 f2 l D B l' F U b2 f' B' R l2 r F' f' b' r2 L R' 
74. 2:39.25 r' F2 d2 l2 f2 l' B u' f2 D2 b' U B u2 b2 d2 U b F2 R' d' U' L l' r2 D' B2 U2 B R' F d f2 u l' B d2 U' r2 f' L' F' b2 d2 R B R' F' d2 u F' f B b2 D2 L2 r2 l R' U' 
75. 2:32.14 r d' f R' f D' d2 r u' d' f D L' f2 r' b2 l R2 B2 R2 B' L d' D' R2 F' l2 B F2 D2 F2 R' f' u2 F2 f' U' d2 B d B2 u2 l2 U' F2 f r F U' r R' U l2 F U' f b2 R r D' 
76. 2:26.27 D2 U b2 R u' D' b2 u l' U' F U' d2 b2 r R' U b2 U' d L2 B' R2 b2 D l' u D F2 b' d b r2 b l D2 d2 l2 U2 r R2 D' b2 f' r U F' l b2 B' l' b U R2 L l' U' b2 u' L 
77. 2:36.08 D' b f' F' U' f2 r2 R l B2 r2 f r' D F2 l' B' L' b' U' l2 F2 L2 l' B' d F2 l2 U' D' l' D' b D2 l B2 F2 l2 r B2 L' F' D L2 u D' r2 F D r2 f2 U R2 r' F' R' u' b' D' U2 
78. 2:46.87 u2 b' l2 b2 L' d' U' R d' f b d2 D2 L l2 F r D' B F' U' d2 B f' r f U r' R' u l2 B' d2 U r2 l' U' B2 R2 f L' b2 r u2 R d' F' l R' B2 U' b' B2 L F U u2 L2 b' B' 
79. 2:33.67 R' b' d' U L D' l R u r' R' b2 R2 U2 l' R2 b l' u' R2 F' D' F' R U L b' u2 D d' L d2 u l' D2 F' U2 F2 f' l' f l2 L' U b L r' B2 R r2 d2 f2 b' l2 b D2 f2 U u l' 
80. 2:39.22 L b' U L' d f B2 F d' u F2 R F' b' u f L' D2 B L' b2 f' B' l U2 f2 b U2 f U d b2 f2 r f2 F U u' b2 l2 b d' l f' L2 B2 d r2 U u' b l2 b D' d' b' l2 d2 r' u 
81. 2:29.93 F U' l' d2 r' d' u' r' F2 u' R' L' u r F' l D' u2 F' d2 r' b' L' b' l2 U' d' r' R B2 R' l' F' r2 B2 U2 B' l' u' R' D' B F2 D' R2 D L' u' l D2 f B' b L d2 U' F' R' u F2 
82. 2:44.82 l2 B' b' f u' L r2 R' U r u U2 F' b D' U' f b2 d2 r F l2 b l' d F2 l D2 b' U2 B' D L2 u f B' d r' D R2 D' d2 L f B2 b2 l' R f' U' b2 d2 b2 R' u' r' L2 R2 l' B' 
83. 2:22.36 f2 F' R' F f2 U D d b2 r b' l R' B r2 B2 d' r' l' R' F l2 R2 b' l' d' b U2 F2 U' b l D2 d' u b' r L2 B u D' d' r2 u2 f2 l b2 U d2 f' U L F2 B' d L F' U R u2 
84. 2:18.31 b2 d r R' l L' F2 l2 B' u R U' f' u2 F' r U2 b' u l d l' r d R r F' f u' F2 U' R B l r' L2 B R' d r2 l' L' u' b' u2 F r2 d' f2 L2 U b' u b B2 f U' D' B2 L' 
85. 2:36.95 d2 D b2 B D' d2 B' u L2 u2 l2 L2 B2 U D f2 d F2 d D2 l r' F' r' R d2 b' D2 F f' d' u R f2 R' r l' b' B' f U2 u2 r l' d2 f' l F' U R B u' F d2 L' r' b' R' l' L' 
86. 2:36.99 B' b R2 d' L2 D u f r d2 B2 u L R' B U' B R u2 r2 L F' U' D f2 L' d' F' R' B r2 u l2 L' B f u r' l B F2 R d' u2 l R' L' f u2 l F' D2 d' f' D' U2 R D' L' d' 
87. 2:28.07 L' d2 r' U2 u' F d F D' d r2 R D' u R' B2 U2 f r' F' u' d R' l F u2 l' u2 d F' r2 L f2 F D' U' R d2 r L2 b2 D d b' F2 R' b R' b2 L' B2 l2 D2 R F' R U2 u' D2 R 
88. 2:31.14 F2 l2 b D L2 R r' B b2 R' b B D' B2 L' f2 L' b B2 f F' d D' b' r u D' B2 U b2 F' B f' U' d2 R L2 l U' b f2 B' L' F2 B' R u2 F2 B2 l f B2 r b' F2 R2 U2 d u2 l2 
89. (2:03.45) r' L B' b' D f2 D' L d2 b' u l B' r2 f2 d U2 F2 R' f2 b l f' F2 B' D B' R B' u r' b' r u' B d r d B2 d F2 d2 r' B D' U' R b' d2 r f2 u' d' R2 r' F' f b' D2 U' 
90. 2:39.31 b2 l2 R2 B f' d r2 d R f' l R U d2 r f' d' L F u f d' l2 F f2 D' f' d' R' L' B' R' F' r' R2 D' f2 d l2 L2 B2 u' F u F2 d L' U2 B2 U2 D b' F2 L2 D2 l2 U2 u2 D2 L' 
91. 2:25.84 R2 d' f F' B' u b d b2 u' f U2 L' d2 f2 d f' b' d D2 L B F2 b f2 R d2 B2 r2 b r' l D f R f U' b R2 d F2 u R2 F' D2 b2 D2 b L2 b2 L d' D2 f2 R2 L U D u' f' 
92. 2:47.24 l2 d r2 U F' R2 L' B' L R b2 r' B D2 u2 L' U2 l b2 F2 f' d2 F2 R2 f2 F2 l f' L2 D2 R D B R' F2 l u R' D F2 B2 U2 F b2 U R' U2 r U F' l2 D2 u2 R' B' f l2 b' f2 B2 
93. 2:33.14 r' d D B r2 U' r' F L r' B' b F2 D2 B2 D U' F D2 r f2 B2 U' f2 b2 d' B U2 d F2 d2 b2 f' d' F u2 F' r f' D2 R b2 U l2 R2 D' B l' L2 u' F' b2 f2 U' d u' F B b f' 
94. 2:31.50 D2 l2 D F L r' f2 r2 U l' D2 b2 D F' u2 D' b f' U2 d2 L f' r2 U l2 R' u' l2 D2 b U f' L2 f' R' U D u' l D' L' b B' l R' L' r B2 L2 u l2 L F2 d f d2 U F f r' 
95. 2:22.31 f' U2 u r2 b' R u d2 B2 F2 f' r2 B' d R d' L' d2 b r2 B D r f d' r' D2 L' l D b R' u' b2 R2 b2 L R B2 R2 D2 R2 b2 r u B b d2 b2 u' d' b2 r' D2 f2 B2 b2 U d F2 
96. 2:40.13 f' F' L' l' R2 u B d' b r R' u2 d2 r' U b2 U l' D' U f' U2 d2 l' u2 R' D2 R' d f U' d2 L2 B U2 f2 R2 b2 u L r2 b' L' D2 R2 b2 B F' d' D2 F' R b2 L' u b D' f2 F' R2 
97. (2:49.33) b2 r' B2 D R2 l2 B L2 d' f' l U2 d2 u R r' u2 B L2 F l' d2 U f2 r d2 U2 L' b l u2 F2 l2 F2 L R' d' l L2 D l L R B' u F2 L2 d' B f2 D r D2 r' b2 D2 d2 B d2 l' 
98. 2:42.87 l2 R' L' U B b U D' b U' B u' L2 U d u' f2 B2 b l' L' f' l D2 b' f2 B' F U2 B' u2 F L D2 U' l' f d r b' U f' D' f2 R' L F d' D B' D' r' B R' D2 B u' b F2 d 
99. 2:30.50 F2 L2 B' U r2 U R' U2 B' D' U2 b2 u2 f' d' R2 B2 F2 f U D b2 B d' l f u' R d F l B2 L f2 r' D f F B2 u2 D2 L' d' L' R' F2 u U L2 l' u2 U r B2 b' R' u f' D2 f' 
100. 2:27.76 d' D' b' r b2 r' U R' f2 D2 R L2 f' F u' b f2 l r' u2 r d D2 f d2 l' r' U2 b r' l2 R d F u L R l' r2 f2 D2 f' D' B' D' f' R2 L' f U' r' R' D' B' r2 U' F U2 u b2


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## newtonbase (Dec 12, 2015)

How long did that take you?


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## Selkie (Dec 12, 2015)

newtonbase said:


> How long did that take you?



Started at about 8am GMT and finished at 3:45pm GMT but have taken a few breaks.


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## newtonbase (Dec 12, 2015)

Selkie said:


> Started at about 8am GMT and finished at 3:45pm GMT but have taken a few breaks.



I'm impressed that you managed to keep going so long.


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## Jason Green (Dec 12, 2015)

newtonbase said:


> I'm impressed that you managed to keep going so long.


That's what she said. 

Couldn't let that one go by.


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## MarcelP (Dec 12, 2015)

You are crazy!! I admire the will to put in time  There is nothing like waisting a perfectly good day to cubing .. LOL


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## h2f (Dec 12, 2015)

Selkie said:


> Well with my wife busy with a degree assignment today I decided to do some 5x5 and some more ... and kept going...
> 
> I am never, ever doing that again. Hands now feel 146 years old. Really slowed up at the end and only just pulled it sub 2:30 on the last solve!
> 
> ...


Wow. Thats Awsome Times. 

patataj patataj patataj


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## Selkie (Dec 12, 2015)

Definitely was a bit of Saturday insanity. To be fair I never set out to do it but sitting in teh study cubing whilst wife was studying next thing I knew I was at 50 solves. At that point the insanity set in


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## EvilGnome6 (Dec 14, 2015)

Racing the Robot

My challenge was to beat the robot and after a few attempts I succeeded with a two handed and one handed solve in the time it solved one cube.

Cubes used were the Newisland Lightning and DaYan 55mm ZhanChi.


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## muchacho (Dec 14, 2015)

Cool, your next challenge, a 3x3 and a 4x4 against that robot.


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## muchacho (Dec 14, 2015)

37 seconds for 4x4 centers, I think I'm going to practice only centers until I can (if possible) do them faster that WR for full 4x4.


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## h2f (Dec 14, 2015)

Not Yau? Reduction? Hoya?


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## shadowslice e (Dec 14, 2015)

h2f said:


> Not Yau? Reduction? Hoya?



he is doing redux still... 

But yeah, why not use a more lookahead friendly variant?


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## muchacho (Dec 14, 2015)

I'm not even solving the full 4x4, I've done it a few times but it takes me sooo long. I'll do the steps separately for now (I assumed practice doing all centers will help even if I end using other method).

But I'll try Meyer, maybe even shadowslice variant... I've tried already but I was not able to finish centers/edges without breaking others


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## SenorJuan (Dec 14, 2015)

"37 seconds for 4x4 centers, I think I'm going to practice only centers..."
It's worth looking at Pochmanns method for centres:
http://www.stefan-pochmann.info/spocc/speedsolving/4x4_centers/


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## muchacho (Dec 14, 2015)

I found that link yesterday, I'm using that but (I don't know why) with the white on D on the second step. I've tried using yellow as first block but I still get confused with orientation.

Best try now: 33 seconds
Average: around 50


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## SenorJuan (Dec 14, 2015)

The 'opposite colour neutral' problem, with the reversed middle belt sequence will soon disappear with practice.
I presume you've seen Hardwick's centres method - make two opposite centres, then do the middle belt? You can be opposite colour neutral with that, and after doing the first two, you can orient the cube so your starting colour is always on the right (say), then you always have the same sequence on the middle belt. 
http://www.speedcubing.com/chris/4speedsolve1.html


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## muchacho (Dec 14, 2015)

Thanks, I'll read that.

Are people usually fully colour neutral while solving centers or white/yellow is enough? If I should end being colour neutral maybe I should start doing it from the start.


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## EvilGnome6 (Dec 14, 2015)

muchacho said:


> Thanks, I'll read that.
> 
> Are people usually fully colour neutral while solving centers or white/yellow is enough? If I should end being colour neutral maybe I should start doing it from the start.



Using Yau, you build your cross before finishing centers so you would have to be fully color neutral on 3x3 if you were to start with a different pair of centers than white/yellow.


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## EvilGnome6 (Dec 14, 2015)

muchacho said:


> Cool, your next challenge, a 3x3 and a 4x4 against that robot.



Hehe. I think I could do it.


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## muchacho (Dec 14, 2015)

If I end using the Meyer method in theory I could be as colour neutral with starting centers as I'm with Roux, that could be cool, in theory.


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## mark49152 (Dec 14, 2015)

Using Hoya, you can start with any pair of opposite centres not including your cross colour, which gives a choice of four, usually offering an easy start.

It's funny how much resistance there is in this thread to getting modern . The rest of the speedcubing world is on Yau or Hoya, at least the vast majority, and there are good reasons for that. Not that those centres guides are bad; they are nicely written and interesting to read, but they date back to the days when the world record was over a minute .


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## MarcelP (Dec 14, 2015)

mark49152 said:


> Using Hoya, you can start with any pair of opposite centres not including your cross colour, which gives a choice of four, usually offering an easy start.
> 
> It's funny how much resistance there is in this thread to getting modern . The rest of the speedcubing world is on Yau or Hoya, at least the vast majority, and there are good reasons for that. Not that those centres guides are bad; they are nicely written and interesting to read, but they date back to the days when the world record was over a minute .



I use also Hoya (and average 1.45). I do know a few very fast cubers who use reduction and are sub50. I also believe Ron van Bruchem uses reduction and his official avg is 50 secs. I also like the freedom to start with any centre other then top/bottom. It gives a lot of easy starts. I plan my first center in inspection wich takes mostly no more than 4 - 5 secs. Execution.. a whole different story.. I just can not turn as fast on a 4X4 as on a 3X3.


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## h2f (Dec 14, 2015)

I think Adam Polkowski  and Tomasz Zołnowski  are using reduction. I've seen their solves couple of times and it looked like reduction.

I've started to practice Yau5 because I use Yau on 4x4 with 3-2-3 paring and half centers method. It suits fine to 5x5. I need only to practice it.


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## SenorJuan (Dec 14, 2015)

"Resistance to getting modern" is aimed at me, again, I guess. Senor Muchacho asked about help with centres, using reduction. I offered it. It's perfectly reasonable for him to spend a month trying different methods, getting a feel for the puzzle, making centres, making pairs 2 or 3 at a time, the 3x3 stage can be practiced independantly etc. 
I'm offering my opinion because as a relative beginner on 4x4x4 myself, I'm using reduction (and I'm very close to getting my first sub 1:30 solve, just need to practice the starting, middle and end steps....). I've had a few tries at Yau4, I see where it's better, and where it's not. I also took a look at Hoya, this example solve by Mr.Ho made me shake my head in disbelief, he's obviously got a good cube to get that 3x3 stage speed.
http://cubesolv.es/solve/1771


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## shadowslice e (Dec 14, 2015)

Well, if you had perfect lookahead, the methods would be Redux>Yau>Hoya in terms of efficiency but I find that lookahead for the edges set on redux is horrible so both Hoya and Yau are better there although yau F3E is nit as nice as hoya's though more efficient. So, in general, the more efficient you want to be, the harder your lookahead is so yau seems to be a happy medium.


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## mark49152 (Dec 14, 2015)

Yes there are cubers using reduction today, and Meyer, K4, Sandwich and probably many other methods. I don't have any data to prove they are in a minority compared to Yau users, and I might be wrong; it's just my impression. Also it's only my impression that the advice from fast cubers to those learning 4x4 is almost always to look at Yau or Hoya. I haven't counted them either. Of course, someone can use whatever method they like, but given that there seems to be a wide consensus that Yau (and Hoya) are superior, advising someone to use reduction is kind of like advising someone to use Petrus on 3x3. Yeah you can give that advice if you believe it, but it's contentious advice that is fair game for being challenged, and I don't mean any offence by doing that, it's only part of the fun. Of course if it was expert advice from someone sub-40 with reduction I wouldn't be so tempted to call it out 

Back on the topic of centres, I guess for Meyer you could use Yau half centres, since the solving order is the same and preserving the 1x3x4 block is pretty much the same as preserving the Yau cross. I have never tried Meyer though.


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## SenorJuan (Dec 14, 2015)

It would be illuminating if people's WCA profiles contained a competitor-supplied summary of their methods.


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## mafergut (Dec 14, 2015)

Came here to cry as I don't think anybody will care in any of the other threads.

Suffering the worst crisis in my two years of speedcubing. This is not just a pleateau, this is a full-fledged push back. Either in the Weekly Competition, in the Race to sub-20, in my own sessions... I am like at 21 sec average again, instead of 19.

Trying to go slow over F2L to improve lookahead but, for now, the only thing I get going slow is... slower solves. Best thing lately is some high 15.xx here and there, even 16.xx are scarce. 13.xx and 14.xx are nowhere to be seen since early November.

A word of compassion, a piece of advice (like "forget about cubing and go back to chess") or even an acid remark would be greatly appreciated


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## SenorJuan (Dec 14, 2015)

You could join the "race to 25s" thread?

Or try eating some lecithin, or other chemicals with long names:
http://www.nutritionexpress.com/art...ry+naguib+phd/showarticle.aspx?articleid=1629


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## EvilGnome6 (Dec 14, 2015)

mafergut said:


> A word of compassion, a piece of advice (like "forget about cubing and go back to chess") or even an acid remark would be greatly appreciated



Forget 3x3. It's a stupid event. Big cubes is where it's at.


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## Jason Green (Dec 14, 2015)

mafergut said:


> Came here to cry as I don't think anybody will care in any of the other threads.
> 
> Suffering the worst crisis in my two years of speedcubing. This is not just a pleateau, this is a full-fledged push back. Either in the Weekly Competition, in the Race to sub-20, in my own sessions... I am like at 21 sec average again, instead of 19.
> 
> ...


Are you practicing enough? I've had bumps like that since I've been cubing even though I am practicing a lot, but thankfully the slumps have not stayed too long yet.


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## mafergut (Dec 14, 2015)

SenorJuan said:


> You could join the "race to 25s" thread?
> 
> Or try eating some lecithin, or other chemicals with long names:



Luckily I have not gone back that much that the race to 25s would be a challenge but give me a couple of weeks  Regarding those chemicals I thought that dopping was forbidded at WCA 



EvilGnome6 said:


> Forget 3x3. It's a stupid event. Big cubes is where it's at.



That's what I always thought of 2x2, skewb and pyra, thay they were stupid events. At least at big cubes I have a lot of room for improvement, as I'm not even sub-2min at 4x4 and I have never timed a 5x5 solve, so my first one would immediately be a PB... of maybe 10 minutes or worse. I can also nationalize in Brunei and try to dispute some NRs to the only other guy that cubes there.



Jason Green said:


> Are you practicing enough? I've had bumps like that since I've been cubing even though I am practicing a lot, but thankfully the slumps have not stayed too long yet.



I have been focusing in upping my 2x2 game with some Ortega practice, some new PBLs, etc. but apart from that I have been practising less and less lately and also focusing on untimed solves trying to build my lookahead but it's clearly not working.


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## h2f (Dec 14, 2015)

mafergut said:


> Came here to cry as I don't think anybody will care in any of the other threads.
> 
> Suffering the worst crisis in my two years of speedcubing. This is not just a pleateau, this is a full-fledged push back. Either in the Weekly Competition, in the Race to sub-20, in my own sessions... I am like at 21 sec average again, instead of 19.
> 
> ...



 Head up, it will pass. Take a break and start practicing something else - blindes or big cubes or pyraminx, skewb. Whatever.


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## sqAree (Dec 14, 2015)

Yeah, rotating between different events seems to always help. ^^

I had something similar as well. I was coming closer and closer to the 20sec in August/September and then went back to 24sec averages until November. By now I surpassed all my previous pbs and am on my way to sub20. Then again I almost focus entirely on 3x3 by now.

So I think the "focus on other events and come back" advice works because it exploits motivation fpr specific events and motivation is essential to get faster.


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## mafergut (Dec 14, 2015)

Thanks also to h2f and sqAree for your encouraging words. I hope Christmas vacation can be the perfect time to come back in good shape


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## h2f (Dec 15, 2015)

You welcome.

I've started bulding my alg list for bld events. But I think I will do it slowly - next step when I'm familiar with what I've created so far.


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## moralsh (Dec 15, 2015)

I'm also pro changing events if you seem to be stuck, other thing that works for me is practicing with a slower cube, then getting back to your main. 4x and 5x are good to improve your look ahead and 2x to train TPS, I guess.

About fast cubers using reduction, We have Jorge Castillo Matas in Spain ( https://www.worldcubeassociation.org/results/p.php?i=2011MATA01 ) but almost everyone else uses Yau around here.

I'm practicing some 7x and I think I'm finally getting sub 10, I'd like to shave at least a couple of minutes more, so I'll keep doing that and 3BLD over Xmas.

Prague 15-17 July, anyone interested?


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## h2f (Dec 15, 2015)

I'm thinking about Prague. I have a family not far away from Prague (but in Poland) and I want to visit them during summer.


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## mafergut (Dec 15, 2015)

moralsh said:


> I'm also pro changing events if you seem to be stuck, other thing that works for me is practicing with a slower cube, then getting back to your main. 4x and 5x are good to improve your look ahead and 2x to train TPS, I guess.
> 
> About fast cubers using reduction, We have Jorge Castillo Matas in Spain ( https://www.worldcubeassociation.org/results/p.php?i=2011MATA01 ) but almost everyone else uses Yau around here.
> 
> ...



Thanks, Raúl. It's curious that all of you recommend to change events and I was thinking that maybe the cause of my dip in 3x3 performance was the time I have been devoting to 2x2 lately that obviously detracts from 3x3 practice time. Others in the forum have advised me that, at our age, we cannot pretend to be fast at all events and, hence, I should focus on 3x3 and forget completely about 2x2, 4x4... but that's not fun at all as 3x3 then becomes more of a job than an enjoyment.

What I've observed is that lately my TPS is slower, maybe the forced slow turning during F2L to try and build my lookahead is contagious and I don't turn as fast as I used to during LL. Maybe it's just that the whole concept of lookahead needs to sink in until I can start to turn a bit faster. I have realized that my fast times up to now where the result of high TPS and "lucky pair spotting" (like when the pairs keep coming up for you to spot them and you think, wow! great lookahead this solve but the truth is that you didn't find them, they found you, if you know what I mean).

Regarding Yau, I started solving 4x4 with reduction and soon changed to Yau. I'm so slow yet with either of them that I cannot certainly tell but dedge pairing lookahead with pure reduction was a nightmare for me and with Yau it is much, much better. Maybe people with great lookahead can benefit from improved efficiency with reduction. Does anybody know what Feliks uses for 4x4 (I've heard that from 5x5 and up he uses reduction)?

And, lots of luck with your 7x7 and 3BLD practice over the holidays. I'm sure you will be able to shave those 2 minutes and more off your 7x7 times. Happy Chri...., I mean, happy cubing


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## shadowslice e (Dec 15, 2015)

mafergut said:


> Does anybody know what Feliks uses for 4x4 (I've heard that from 5x5 and up he uses reduction)?



I believe he uses Yau on 4x4 and freeslice/reduction on bigger cubes, but then, everyone just freeslices in big cubes. However, I think that he is considering Yau5 for it but idk whether that's true or not though I'm sure he has tried it at one point or another


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## Berd (Dec 15, 2015)

shadowslice e said:


> I believe he uses Yau on 4x4 and freeslice/reduction on bigger cubes, but then, everyone just freeslices in big cubes. However, I think that he is considering Yau5 for it but idk whether that's true or not though I'm sure he has tried it at one point or another


He tried it with Rob Yau at worlds and apparently he averages sub 1. He's so fast at reduction tho.


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## JanW (Dec 15, 2015)

mafergut said:


> It's curious that all of you recommend to change events and I was thinking that maybe the cause of my dip in 3x3 performance was the time I have been devoting to 2x2 lately that obviously detracts from 3x3 practice time. Others in the forum have advised me that, at our age, we cannot pretend to be fast at all events and, hence, I should focus on 3x3 and forget completely about 2x2, 4x4... but that's not fun at all as 3x3 then becomes more of a job than an enjoyment.


Getting stuck with improvement like that is not nice. I think it's a bit of a vicious cycle that has to be broken somehow. To improve, you need focused deliberate practice. To do that you need motivation. Motivation is fueled by a sense of accomplishment, which in cubing would come from seeing your times drop. So when times don't drop anymore, you don't get that sense of accomplishment, which takes away motivation and makes it harder to do focused practice, and without that you can't improve. In the end this only leads to frustration. This is where taking a break and focusing on another event helps. By doing something where you can improve easily and get that feeling of accomplishment, you get back the motivation and tell your brain again that this is something fun that we want to focus fully on.

If you don't want to switch events, you could also try something else with the 3x3. Do the race to sub-30 with ZZ or something like that. The method seems like a lot of fun, and you might pick up some goodies for CFOP solves as well from the rotationless F2L and edge orienting.

I tried some ZZ yesterday. First ao12 barely under a minute, mostly because the EOLine was messed up in several solves. When I got easy EOLines, I had a couple of solves in the 42-43 second range. Not too far from my regular solve times (latest Ao100 was 38.xx). But I also realized that if I want to learn ZZ, I really have to learn PLL. It's not compatible at all with my current last layer. On the other hand, this is a good reason for me to learn PLL, so I just might go ahead and do it.


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## shadowslice e (Dec 15, 2015)

Berd said:


> He tried it with Rob Yau at worlds and apparently he averages sub 1. He's so fast at reduction tho.



He's so fast. Full stop. Period.


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## Selkie (Dec 15, 2015)

mafergut said:


> Thanks, Raúl. It's curious that all of you recommend to change events and I was thinking that maybe the cause of my dip in 3x3 performance was the time I have been devoting to 2x2 lately that obviously detracts from 3x3 practice time. Others in the forum have advised me that, at our age, we cannot pretend to be fast at all events and, hence, I should focus on 3x3 and forget completely about 2x2, 4x4... but that's not fun at all as 3x3 then becomes more of a job than an enjoyment.
> 
> What I've observed is that lately my TPS is slower, maybe the forced slow turning during F2L to try and build my lookahead is contagious and I don't turn as fast as I used to during LL. Maybe it's just that the whole concept of lookahead needs to sink in until I can start to turn a bit faster. I have realized that my fast times up to now where the result of high TPS and "lucky pair spotting" (like when the pairs keep coming up for you to spot them and you think, wow! great lookahead this solve but the truth is that you didn't find them, they found you, if you know what I mean).
> 
> ...



It can be very frustrating to be on a plateau for a long time or even regress. Trust me this is something I have a lot of experience with. Whilst I am faster than average for my age at a global average of sub 16.5 at 46 years old, this has taken a LOT of practice and work. Oh when I said a LOT I meant a LOT!  I was sub 19 4 years ago 

For me the first single recommendation I could make is to read this post by a UK cuber called Rowan Kinneavy. The post may be 4 1/2 years old now but is still as strong today as it has ever been:-

https://www.speedsolving.com/forum/showthread.php?27870-How-to-practice

Ok, now my 2 cents for what its worth. Practice that consists of just a number of complete solves may work for some but it will not work for all and I put myself in this category. I can do an Ao100 a day and not get any improvement in months. Why? I firmly believe we reach a stage where our solves are more sub conscious than conscious. More reaction than thinking. If at some stage we make a mistake or do not optimise something then we then start repeating these mistakes automatically and we can end up doing 100 solves in a row, all with the same reasons why they are not sub "insert your goal here". There may be some fundamental issues you have which are really easy to address but you are just repeating them and reinforcing them over and over again.

For me the first step is to understand yourself what your weak points are. For this I highly recommend filming some solves and trying to be very critical about your own solves. If you dont have a tripod ask someone to assist you. Look at solves of those who are faster or those you aspire to solve like and try and find the differences between these and the videos of your own solves. I like to watch similar aged solvers, my inspiration comes from Ron Van Bruchem. I like to watch guys on this thread who are of a similar age. I will also conversely watch solves by Breandan Vallance, Rob Yau, Faz etc etc (albeit slow motion). There is something to learn from them all, even at my turn speed.

Is your cross to F2L transition really slow? Is you second roux block slow? Is your F2L turn speed fast but with lots of pauses? Are you using lot of AUFs for recognition of LL algs? Are you getting a lot of lockups? There are almost an infinite number of these question you can be asking yourself.

Once you have your list of "problem" areas and for assistance and transparency I will share my current worst bad points with you with you:-


Cross - Slow cross to F2L transition and I miss easy X-Cross cases
My turn speed could be faster even at my age
I still have a lot of pauses in F2L which I would like to eliminate
I need to learn 2 face PLL recognition
I need to hold the cube less tightly when solving
I need to give concentrated ppractice to algs with D or D' in them which I have most difficulty with
I need to drill my algorithms more often
I need to minimise cube rotations even more in F2L stage

The next bit is actual easy, research or practice ways to improve on your worst points in your solves. Do concentrated sessions on these. So for me today I might do an Ao100 or if pressed for time I might do an Ao12 but I will do 15 minutes drilling G perms and find a new alg for an F2L case where I currently rotate. Ideally tomorrow I will do something else.

Keep reassessing your solves. If the practice is working then the weak point may become stronger and you will have new weak points to address.

Even in full practices mix it up a bit. I like to do an Ao12 very very slow, then an Ao12 as fast as my hands will go, then a usual speed average. Even the change of speed pulls you out of that automated solving mode.

It is my honest opinion that this targeted practice not only obviously concentrates your time and effort in the part of the solve that need it but it also gives you time practicing that is not sub conscious, that makes you think rather than just repeating solves.

Hope this helps in some way and good luck 

P.S.: Another vote for Yau here on 4x4. I started with reduction and got down to probably about 1:40 quite a few years ago. I now average globally about 1:10 with Yau. I might try Yau on 5 as my 5 times are not great. Another very good alternative for 5 is AVG and I was lucky enough to spend some time with Arnaud Van Galen a few years ago discussing his method at a comp. Worth a look, especially with age with a lower move count but does require a lot of lookahead for maximum results.


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## h2f (Dec 15, 2015)

:tu

Selkie, Great Post!


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## mafergut (Dec 15, 2015)

JanW said:


> Getting stuck with improvement like that is not nice. I think it's a bit of a vicious cycle that has to be broken somehow. To improve, you need focused deliberate practice. To do that you need motivation. Motivation is fueled by a sense of accomplishment, [...]
> 
> If you don't want to switch events, you could also try something else with the 3x3. Do the race to sub-30 with ZZ or something like that. The method seems like a lot of fun, [...]
> 
> But I also realized that if I want to learn ZZ, I really have to learn PLL. It's not compatible at all with my current last layer. On the other hand, this is a good reason for me to learn PLL, so I just might go ahead and do it.



Thanks! It's surely a good idea. In fact I learned Roux and ZZ like 6 months ago but I never gave any of the methods enough time to really sink in. I might try them again. EOLine is a nightmare at first, though  And I would absolutely recommend you learn PLL.



Selkie said:


> It can be very frustrating to be on a plateau for a long time or even regress. [...]
> 
> Ok, now my 2 cents for what its worth. Practice that consists of just a number of complete solves may work for some but it will not work for all and I put myself in this category. [...]
> 
> ...



Thanks a lot for this superb piece of advice. I have been doing just timed Ao100s on autopilot for too long already. I need to really concentrate in the things I do wrong, which are soooo many. I cannot give up just because after the first week or so practicing slow solves and lookahead the expected results are not coming.


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## MarcelP (Dec 15, 2015)

mafergut said:


> Came here to cry as I don't think anybody will care in any of the other threads.



I have been cubing for almost 4 years. The first two years progress came naturally with practice. And after that it seemed like one big plateau. But in real I have gained a lot of tricks in F2L, changed an OLL of PLL here and there, learned to be better at Color neutral solving etc etc. I think it took me 1.5 years to come from 20 secs average to sub 20 average. But now I truly can say I am sub 20 (with highlight a 17.xx Ao12 on camera  ). Achieving my first sub 20 official has made me relax a bit and take a break from cubing. I think I did up untill that time at least 50 - 100 timed solves per day.. When I start again I might pick up other events or change main method.. LOL just to keep it fun..


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## JanW (Dec 15, 2015)

mafergut said:


> Thanks! It's surely a good idea. In fact I learned Roux and ZZ like 6 months ago but I never gave any of the methods enough time to really sink in. I might try them again. EOLine is a nightmare at first, though  And I would absolutely recommend you learn PLL.


Yes, the EOLine requires work. But it isn't that bad. At least I find it easier to work out solution for the EOLine now than it was to find solution for the cross when I first started cubing. This gives me hope that it should be possible to learn it well. 

I did another 50 ZZ solves and now I'm thinking seriously about switching. The CPEOLL method I worked out before looking online for tips is unfortunately a dead end. To go from 3lll to 2lll requires 80 algs, which is too much at this point. But switching to CFOP and learning full PLL to go from one 3lll to another 3lll isn't very tempting either. With ZZ I could learn PLL and get a 2lll with a very easy first step. That sounds a lot better! After that I can consider going back to CFOP and learn OLL.

I'll probably try to finish the race to sub-30 with my current method before switching completely. In the meantime try to learn rotationless F2L better, should help with all solves regardless of method. I noticed that I do a lot of unnecessary moves at that stage. Up until now I've probably been rotating the cube way too much during F2L.


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## mafergut (Dec 15, 2015)

JanW said:


> Yes, the EOLine requires work. But it isn't that bad. At least I find it easier to work out solution for the EOLine now than it was to find solution for the cross when I first started cubing. This gives me hope that it should be possible to learn it well.
> 
> I did another 50 ZZ solves and now I'm thinking seriously about switching. The CPEOLL method I worked out before looking online for tips is unfortunately a dead end. To go from 3lll to 2lll requires 80 algs, which is too much at this point. But switching to CFOP and learning full PLL to go from one 3lll to another 3lll isn't very tempting either. With ZZ I could learn PLL and get a 2lll with a very easy first step. That sounds a lot better! After that I can consider going back to CFOP and learn OLL.
> 
> I'll probably try to finish the race to sub-30 with my current method before switching completely. In the meantime try to learn rotationless F2L better, should help with all solves regardless of method. I noticed that I do a lot of unnecessary moves at that stage. Up until now I've probably been rotating the cube way too much during F2L.



Yeah, that's what I like about ZZ as well. Right now you can have a 2LLL with just 28 algs or so but not only that, you can also start adding some COLL here and there and maybe even some ZBLL and you know that you'll be able to use them every solve because the edges are going to be oriented. It also happens to avoid what I hate most of CFOP, rotations during F2L or the need to learn lots of tricks/algs to avoid rotations. The rotationless part is something I also like about Roux.


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## muchacho (Dec 15, 2015)

4x4 centers done in less time than full 4x4 single and ao5 WR, sooner than I thought it would take me ("only" 2 or 3 hours). But I was lucky, I'm averaging like 30 seconds or so, using Pochmann method, starting with white or yellow. It's fun improving at something 

30.44, 14.21, 29.67, 21.47, 26.37


I'll practice some more and then I'll try to learn new edge pairing methods.

Will improve much if I lube the cube (it's a Yusu)? I've seen a few videos and it seems a lot of work, I'm not sure if I want to...


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## h2f (Dec 15, 2015)

Nice. Congrats.

My first 3bld today, early in the morning I wanst warmed - 1:10 on very easy scramble. It could be sub 1 min, I think.


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## JanW (Dec 15, 2015)

mafergut said:


> Yeah, that's what I like about ZZ as well. Right now you can have a 2LLL with just 28 algs or so but not only that, you can also start adding some COLL here and there and maybe even some ZBLL and you know that you'll be able to use them every solve because the edges are going to be oriented.


My thinking exactly. ZZ would open up so many options to go forward. There's also WV, MGLS and other possibilities. And I could keep using the 2gll algs I already know. Especially the T cases are very easy to recognize. I can immediately tell if the corners are correctly permuted or not when those come up, and I know the 12 algs very well by now. I just realized the Pi cases also are easy to distinguish if corner permutation is correct, so those I can also keep using. Maybe still learn the H cases, as those are few and the easiest, and also easy to see when corners are permutated.


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## moralsh (Dec 15, 2015)

I was questioning myself after muchacho's post how where my center solving times like and just decided to time a couple of averages

5x5 centers

Best average of 5: 54.58
1-5 - 1:00.21 53.18 (43.42) 50.35 (1:01.82)



Spoiler



centros 5x5
15-dic-2015 19:02:04 - 19:11:10

Mean: 53.80
Average: 54.58
Best time: 43.42
Median: 53.18
Worst time: 1:01.82
Standard deviation: 6.71



1. 1:00.21 B D2 R2 B' R Uw L2 Lw' D2 Lw2 Fw2 Bw' B' L2 Fw D2 B U2 F' L2 Rw2 Fw2 Uw2 Rw Fw2 Bw' Rw2 B2 Uw' Lw2 F L Dw R2 F' B Uw2 Rw R' U2 Uw D' B2 R2 Dw Bw' U' L' Rw2 Uw Bw2 B2 L U2 Uw' Dw' Bw' D R F2
2. 53.18 Rw U Uw2 Dw B Lw' Uw2 B D' Rw2 R2 Fw U F' Fw' U L2 R2 F2 Dw2 F2 U' Uw' Lw' Uw2 F D Rw2 Uw F' Lw' F' Lw Rw' R F U2 D2 F Fw B D' F' B' L Lw2 Bw Lw2 Rw' Fw' B D F' Uw' F2 Rw2 Uw2 L' Dw F
3. 43.42 Fw' U' Dw' Fw Uw2 Bw Rw R2 B2 Uw' Fw' Bw2 B2 Rw Fw B2 L' Rw' B' U Bw2 U' Lw2 F Bw2 B' Lw2 F2 Dw D Lw2 R Bw D' F B2 U2 Bw2 L Fw2 L' Uw' F B' L Dw B Uw2 L' Lw2 Fw Uw Fw Rw' R2 Fw2 Bw2 R2 Dw' F'
4. 50.35 U' F L2 D2 Rw2 D Bw2 U' B U2 B D' Fw2 B2 D2 F D2 Fw2 Rw' R Uw2 Rw2 U2 L' F2 Fw' Bw' U Rw' U2 Lw Rw' R2 Dw D2 B U D Bw B Uw' Rw2 R2 Uw2 R F Lw' U Uw R Dw Lw' F Bw' B2 R F' Fw2 B2 R2
5. 1:01.82 U' Rw R Uw R2 U2 Lw Rw2 F2 R' Fw2 L' Lw F Bw L R2 D F' Lw Rw2 D' Bw2 Uw2 Dw' Bw' Rw2 Bw2 Uw2 D' Rw2 R Uw Fw Dw2 F2 Fw Uw2 F Rw2 Bw Dw' B2 L2 Rw2 F2 Fw' D2 R2 Dw2 B L Lw' U' D2 Rw' F2 L2 Lw' Bw2



4x4 centers

Best average of 5: 19.00
1-5 - (16.99) 17.79 18.68 20.54 (20.66)


Spoiler



centros 4x4
15-dic-2015 19:16:12 - 19:20:45

Mean: 18.93
Average: 19.00
Best time: 16.99
Median: 18.68
Worst time: 20.66
Standard deviation: 1.46


1. 16.99 B D' R' D2 R2 Fw Rw' D L' Uw2 D Fw U2 F Fw2 B' Rw Uw B2 U F2 Uw' L D' L Rw U' D' L R2 Fw' B' U2 R' B U Rw2 D' Rw D'
2. 17.79 L D Fw B L U' Rw' B' R Uw B2 Rw2 R Uw L Rw R' U' L2 Uw' D Rw2 U Fw2 L Uw' B' L2 Uw2 D' R2 B' Rw' F Fw U2 D' Fw D' Fw
3. 18.68 L' Rw2 B2 Uw2 D2 Rw' D' F2 D2 R2 Uw Rw2 F' Uw R Uw' R D' F2 L' R F2 R' B' D' B' Rw2 U2 D2 L2 U Fw' B' U2 F' Uw F D' F' B
4. 20.54 U Uw' R' F L' Rw2 B' Rw2 D' L2 B2 R U2 F' Fw D2 L R U' D2 Rw2 R2 Uw R B Rw' R F2 U2 R' U2 B' L2 B Rw B Uw L' R D2
5. 20.66 Rw2 U R' Fw D F' U2 D2 Fw' D' Fw2 D' B2 R2 Uw' Fw' Rw' U2 F U' Uw' Rw2 R2 Fw Rw' F R' F' L' Fw2 R Fw' U2 Uw R' D2 B2 R' U2 D2



I thought I was faster at 5x5 and slower at 4x4, I might try to do it yau style (centers + cross) later to see the difference

I'm going to do a couple of 7x7 now and will try to look at the timer when I finish the centers, I'll be right back


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## Selkie (Dec 15, 2015)

Really interesting discussions re stages and particularly centres. Think I will film an Ao12 and look at the splits for F2C, Centres complete and edge pairing (Yau).

Now where did I put my tripod....


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## h2f (Dec 15, 2015)

Talking about practice - for a week I do slow solves and i did today ao50 21.51 - I'm quite happy because they were slow and had no to so many pauses as usual. And I got two 16's during it and couple 17's... It really pays off.


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## moralsh (Dec 15, 2015)

I just did my 2 7x7 solves, first one 5:25 centers, then pop and ended being a 11:08 and second one did centers in 5:04 and ended being an 8:55.66 PB, yay!


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## Jason Green (Dec 16, 2015)

I've been wanting to get a sub 20 solve on camera, so I've been filming a bit more lately. I've still only had 6, but I had a 19 both Saturday and Sunday when I was not filming. 

Still haven't caught it, but here is a good for me ao5 I got tonight. 

https://youtu.be/lmCQF6Svx04


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## muchacho (Dec 16, 2015)

Not bad, not bad 

Not even PB?

That lighting is good enough? From the video it doesn't seem so.


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## Selkie (Dec 16, 2015)

h2f said:


> Talking about practice - for a week I do slow solves and i did today ao50 21.51 - I'm quite happy because they were slow and had no to so many pauses as usual. And I got two 16's during it and couple 17's... It really pays off.



Great stuff, it does pay off in the end! It took me a few attempts to do the sub 19 slow turning throughout video I did and on one attempt I got a 14.x with super slow all the way though. Couldn't believe it. Keep it up.

For info any practice for me today is in the theme "As fast as my old hands can manage and hold onto lookahead for dear life" 



moralsh said:


> I just did my 2 7x7 solves, first one 5:25 centers, then pop and ended being a 11:08 and second one did centers in 5:04 and ended being an 8:55.66 PB, yay!



Very good times, I really mist put some practice into 6x6 and 7x7



Jason Green said:


> I've been wanting to get a sub 20 solve on camera, so I've been filming a bit more lately. I've still only had 6, but I had a 19 both Saturday and Sunday when I was not filming.
> 
> Still haven't caught it, but here is a good for me ao5 I got tonight.
> 
> https://youtu.be/lmCQF6Svx04



Oh so, so close! You'll get there really soon. It may just be me but these solves look so much more fluid than those you posted last week. A lot less pauses 



MarcelP said:


> I have been cubing for almost 4 years. The first two years progress came naturally with practice. And after that it seemed like one big plateau. But in real I have gained a lot of tricks in F2L, changed an OLL of PLL here and there, learned to be better at Color neutral solving etc etc. I think it took me 1.5 years to come from 20 secs average to sub 20 average. But now I truly can say I am sub 20 (with highlight a 17.xx Ao12 on camera  ). Achieving my first sub 20 official has made me relax a bit and take a break from cubing. I think I did up untill that time at least 50 - 100 timed solves per day.. When I start again I might pick up other events or change main method.. LOL just to keep it fun..



A break can actually be a great improver. taken a few breaks over the last 5 years and have not really suffered from any of them. Congratulations on being sub-20, I know how long you have practiced for and the effort you have put in. Great achievement. Wan't to race to sub 15


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## Jason Green (Dec 16, 2015)

muchacho said:


> Not bad, not bad
> 
> Not even PB?
> 
> That lighting is good enough? From the video it doesn't seem so.



You know what I think it was a PB Ao5, I didn't even notice! I don't care deeply about Ao5's really, Ao12 means more to me because it helps in the forum races.  I thought I had a sub 23 Ao5 but looking back it looks like a 22.95. I actually broke this one on the next solve with a 20.99, bringing average down to 22.89 (camera was stopped though). Maybe I should put it in my signature so I can remember. 

The lighting is good for me. It's an overhead light and two "old fashioned" bulbs, maybe the yellow light makes it look darker instead of more of a white light. Maybe even more light would help? It's a lot easier than when I practice in the garage. 



Selkie said:


> Oh so, so close! You'll get there really soon. It may just be me but these solves look so much more fluid than those you posted last week. A lot less pauses



Thanks Chris! I hope they are more fluid, I know at times I do better with pausing than other times. Maybe I'll re-watch a couple of my videos to compare myself now that you mention that!


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## newtonbase (Dec 16, 2015)

moralsh said:


> I just did my 2 7x7 solves, first one 5:25 centers, then pop and ended being a 11:08 and second one did centers in 5:04 and ended being an 8:55.66 PB, yay!



Funnily enough I did my first 7x7 solve in ages last night. My timer hit the 10 min limit before I'd finished centres. I think I'll continue with 5x5 and less for now.


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## Lid (Dec 16, 2015)

Finally got sub16 avg12 today, all fullstep 

15.680, 14.860, 16.961, (19.504), 15.033, 16.597, 16.926, 14.970, 16.824, 14.809, (13.466), 16.936 = *15.960*

I also for a 11.169 fullstep just before this avg started, which is my second best fullstep single.



Spoiler: Scambles



Average of 12: 15.960
1. 15.680 D' F2 D' B2 R2 D L2 D2 B2 L2 R2 F' D R2 D' L F' R U2 F'
2. 14.860 F2 D2 R' D2 B2 R' B2 F2 R2 F2 R U L' B2 R' U F' L' B2 D' R'
3. 16.961 L B2 U R2 D R' L' D' L U2 F' D2 B' L2 B' R2 U2 L2 F2 D2
4. (19.504) D' R2 D' F2 L2 F2 R2 D2 F2 U2 B F' D R D2 F R' B' L R2 D2
5. 15.033 D' B2 D' U2 F2 U R2 F2 U' B2 L2 R' D2 L' F' L U' L' F2 R F'
6. 16.597 D' R' D L F' L2 U D' F' R D' R2 L2 U F2 U2 L2 U' B2
7. 16.926 D2 B2 D2 L2 B2 L' U2 L' F2 R' U2 B R B' R F2 D F2 R2 B R
8. 14.970 B2 U R2 D' B2 L2 R2 D F2 L2 B' R B R' D' L F' L2 D F2
9. 16.824 D2 F2 L2 B D2 F D2 U2 B' D2 F2 L B' D U L B' R D F' U2
10. 14.809 D' B U' D F B2 U L2 U D2 L U2 L2 U2 F2 U2 R' D2 B2 R'
11. (13.466) B' R2 B' U2 B L2 U2 F D2 R2 F2 L D B D2 R' B F' U R2 B'
12. 16.936 F2 U2 B2 D2 L2 B' L2 R2 F2 R2 B' D' F' D' L R F D R' U2 R'





Spoiler: 11.169 solve



B2 L2 F2 L R' F2 R' U2 R2 D2 B2 F' U R D2 B' D L2 R B

x y' D' R' D // cross
y' U2 L U L' // 1st
y R U' R' // 2nd
U' L' U2 L U L' U' L // 3rd
y' L' U' L U L' U L // 4th
U' r U2 R' U' R U' r' // OLL(#6)
y' R2 U R U R' U' R' U' R' U R' // PLL(Ub)
44 htm



I have also revamped my website abit, take a peek here if you already haven't.


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## h2f (Dec 16, 2015)

Nice solves, nice page. I looked into your page few times.


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## Jason Green (Dec 17, 2015)

Got it on cam! Not just a sub 20 but a new PB too.  (PLL skip but that's fine by me)

https://youtu.be/NIZbB1qpXDc


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## muchacho (Dec 17, 2015)

There it is, congrats!

I think I hear "yes! jest!", are you Polish too? jk


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## Jason Green (Dec 17, 2015)

muchacho said:


> There it is, congrats!
> 
> I think I hear "yes! jest!", are you Polish too? jk [emoji14]


I'm not sure what that was after yes, kind of sounded like stepping on a dog's tail and he yelped.  Thanks!


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## mafergut (Dec 17, 2015)

Lid said:


> Finally got sub16 avg12 today, all fullstep
> 
> I have also revamped my website abit, take a peek here if you already haven't.



Nice times!!! I'm envious 
Your site is really, really nice but I have one question. Are you right handed for OH? All your algs are L based 



Jason Green said:


> Got it on cam! Not just a sub 20 but a new PB too.  (PLL skip but that's fine by me)
> 
> https://youtu.be/NIZbB1qpXDc



Congratulations!!!! And for two reasons. 1) The solve is very nice and 2) it still has room for improvement (you had some doubts here and there during F2L and also it took you a while to recognize the skip and AUF) so I'm sure you will have a sub-16 PB single very soon.


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## h2f (Dec 17, 2015)

muchacho said:


> There it is, congrats!
> 
> I think I hear "yes! jest!", are you Polish too? jk



Congrats Jason. Definietly there's is "yes" and next "jest" (you can read it as "yest"). I can hear "t"!


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## moralsh (Dec 17, 2015)

Congrats! If you had known full OLL it wouldn't have been a PLL skip 

if that is your PB single you are quite regular on your solves, not many seconds between single and average (I have almost 5 seconds in my official times and almost 4 at home)


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## h2f (Dec 17, 2015)

I got today ao5 sub 20 on cam with slow turning. Okey - let's say it would be slow turning but sometimes I've speeded up.


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## EvilGnome6 (Dec 17, 2015)

I was messing around a bit with Speed-Cubjectives which uses some statistical analysis of WCA data to predict what your other events would be like based on your 3x3 average.

I average around 24.5 seconds right now and here's what it predicts for my other events:

2x2: 9.64
4x4: 1:59.88
5x5: 3:41.55
6x6: 6:16.94
7x7: 8:29.08

Those times are all much slower than my actual averages.

In order to get averages that are all close, I have to adjust down to 16.5 seconds:

2x2: 6.63
4x4: 1:21.88
5x5: 2:35.34
6x6: 4:44.13
7x7: 6:44.40

Other than 2x2 and 7x7, those averages are pretty spot on with my current Ao100s for those events. That still leaves me wondering why the heck I'm so slow at 3x3. I've never even gotten a 16.5 single and based on other events, that should be my average.

Or maybe it's the other way around and the average 3x3 solver is really bad at the big cubes and they should be faster.


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## mafergut (Dec 17, 2015)

I can't believe this. In the middle of my bigger 3x3 crisis since I started cubing I got a PB full-step single by more than 0.3. It could have been sub-13.

31. 13.06 F2 D2 B U2 R2 U2 L2 B F' U2 F' D L' F' L2 R' U2 L D2 

x2
R' U2 R2 U R L2 // XCross
U R U' R' // F2L#2
L' U2 L U' L' U' L // F2L#3
y' U L' U' L U2 L' U' L // F2L#4
OLL
y2 Y-perm




h2f said:


> I got today ao5 sub 20 on cam with slow turning. Okey - let's say it would be slow turning but sometimes I've speeded up.



Nice Ao5 and, in particular nice last solve. I like your turning style when you slow solve. I need some more practice at that to practice not only lookahead but accuracy. Some times I just want to spam TPS faster than my brain-fingers can and I end up messing up algs and locking up a lot.



EvilGnome6 said:


> I was messing around a bit with Speed-Cubjectives [...]
> 
> That still leaves me wondering why the heck I'm so slow at 3x3. I've never even gotten a 16.5 single and based on other events, that should be my average.
> 
> Or maybe it's the other way around and the average 3x3 solver is really bad at the big cubes and they should be faster.



I think you practice more big cubes so you're better at it. I practice more 3x3 so, in comparison my big cube (4x4 only) times are worse, I suppose. But if there's some conclusion to be drawn from that is that you have potential to be sub-17 at 3x3, you just need to want to get there.


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## moralsh (Dec 17, 2015)

mafergut, x2 R U' L2 R is an easier XCross I didn't saw yours at first glance.

U L U' L' U2 L U' L' without the rotation for the last pair with the rest of your reconstruction identical leaves you with a U-Perm at the end

EvilGnome, I'm also puzzled with your 3x3 times, that web is more or less spot on with my official times other that 3BLD (much less) and 4BLD and 6x and 7x (way more), I'm working an the last 3 though.


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## muchacho (Dec 17, 2015)

Not a good solve from my part, but it was such a lolscramble, a 1 move FB, and the SB was 10 moves or so 

17.351 R2 B2 D2 U R2 U B2 D2 L2 B2 D2 B' L D R2 D2 B' U2 F2 L' D U'


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## Jason Green (Dec 17, 2015)

muchacho said:


> Not a good solve from my part, but it was such a lolscramble, a 1 move FB, and the SB was 10 moves or so
> 
> 17.351R2 B2 D2 U R2 U B2 D2 L2 B2 D2 B' L D R2 D2 B' U2 F2 L' D U'


Nice! You're leaving me behind on PBs.


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## mafergut (Dec 17, 2015)

moralsh said:


> mafergut, x2 R U' L2 R is an easier XCross I didn't saw yours at first glance.
> 
> U L U' L' U2 L U' L' without the rotation for the last pair with the rest of your reconstruction identical leaves you with a U-Perm at the end



Wow! I didn't see that x-cross option! The scramble had so much potential. The good thing about mine is that while doing the x-cross it also creates an extra blue-red pair, even though I was just tracking the pieces as 2nd F2L pair, I mean, I didn't see that the pair would be formed during inspection, to be honest.

*Thanks a lot *for the F2L case for the 4th pair! I will definitely add it to my repertoire. I'm lately realizing that my F2L needs improving a lot with things like those. This solve, with that insertion and the easier LL, could have been mid or even low 12 easily.


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## muchacho (Dec 17, 2015)

Jason Green said:


> Nice! You're leaving me behind on PBs.



Not in total of sub-20, and definitely not in averages.

I should (also) work on being more colour neutral, probably this solve could have been done faster, and I'm probably missing some nice starts in other colours (in fact I'm seeing more of them now that I take more time in inspection).


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## h2f (Dec 17, 2015)

mafergut said:


> I can't believe this. In the middle of my bigger 3x3 crisis since I started cubing I got a PB full-step single by more than 0.3. It could have been sub-13.
> 
> 31. 13.06 F2 D2 B U2 R2 U2 L2 B F' U2 F' D L' F' L2 R' U2 L D2
> 
> ...



Nice solve. The last pair I would do like Raul.



> Nice Ao5 and, in particular nice last solve. I like your turning style when you slow solve. I need some more practice at that to practice not only lookahead but accuracy. Some times I just want to spam TPS faster than my brain-fingers can and I end up messing up algs and locking up a lot.



Thanks.


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## mafergut (Dec 17, 2015)

h2f said:


> Nice solve. The last pair I would do like Raul.



Retried the scramble executing with Raul's (and your) 4th F2L pair. Got a 10.86. Of course, knowing the solve helps a lot but I guess this scramble is easily sub-10able.


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## moralsh (Dec 17, 2015)

mafergut, wow, you have faster fingers than mine. 

Also, would you like to go to your first comp? there's a one day comp 223Km away from Valladolid on January 30th, maybe you can start negotiating 

Grzegorz, Nice Ao5, seems like the last one could have been a bit faster with a better PLL, your F2L seems smooth. I need to try to Focus on 3x3 one of this days as almost all of you guys have more regular times than I do.

I've been doing some 7x today. 9 solves, 8:39 single PB, 9:05 Mean of 3 PB, 9:25 Ao5 PB and 9:33 mean of the 9, definitely improving.


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## newtonbase (Dec 17, 2015)

I like that Cubejectives link. It's accurate for 2x2 and Pyraminx. I'm a little faster on 4x4 and 5x5, and way faster on blind. But for big cubes I'm awful. I take nearly 3 times as long as predicted on 7x7.


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## Berd (Dec 17, 2015)

Jason Green said:


> Got it on cam! Not just a sub 20 but a new PB too.  (PLL skip but that's fine by me)
> 
> https://youtu.be/NIZbB1qpXDc


Nice solve! Our setups look almost identcal, check out the 11s I have on my channel haha.


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## mafergut (Dec 17, 2015)

moralsh said:


> mafergut, wow, you have faster fingers than mine.
> 
> Also, would you like to go to your first comp? there's a one day comp 223Km away from Valladolid on January 30th, maybe you can start negotiating
> 
> ...



Camarma de Esteruelas Open . I will think about that.
It's not fast fingers, it's just that after reconstructing the solve and memorizing it, all the pauses are gone  That's an indication of what my theoretical limit would be. Far from it right now but today I just got a 19.65 Ao50, maybe the beginning of recovery after this terrible month?


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## Chree (Dec 17, 2015)

Lid said:


> I have also revamped my website abit, take a peek here if you already haven't.



So I just learned Sq-1 a couple weeks ago. Your site might be the single best collection of good algs I've found so far. Everywhere else has like a few nice ones and a bunch of crap algs. You have them all  Thanks, man.


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## h2f (Dec 17, 2015)

moralsh said:


> Grzegorz, Nice Ao5, seems like the last one could have been a bit faster with a better PLL, your F2L seems smooth. I need to try to Focus on 3x3 one of this days as almost all of you guys have more regular times than I do.



Yes it could and I knew it during solve. But I wanted to not screw it. I knew every sub20 solve makes me sub20.  First on cam.


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## Jason Green (Dec 17, 2015)

h2f said:


> I got today ao5 sub 20 on cam with slow turning. Okey - let's say it would be slow turning but sometimes I've speeded up.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VfYZ_auCOs0



Nice, it would be fun to race against you. I might win 1 in 100, or I might not because the easy solves you would do that much better. I like competing against people better than me, but someone averaging sub 10 would be boring. haha


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## Jason Green (Dec 17, 2015)

mafergut said:


> Congratulations!!!! And for two reasons. 1) The solve is very nice and 2) it still has room for improvement (you had some doubts here and there during F2L and also it took you a while to recognize the skip and AUF) so I'm sure you will have a sub-16 PB single very soon.



Thanks, yes I can see lots of room to improve which I am happy about! I'm not sure *how* soon but that would be cool. 



h2f said:


> Congrats Jason. Definietly there's is "yes" and next "jest" (you can read it as "yest"). I can hear "t"!



Maybe I'm part Polish, I had no idea.



moralsh said:


> Congrats! If you had known full OLL it wouldn't have been a PLL skip
> 
> if that is your PB single you are quite regular on your solves, not many seconds between single and average (I have almost 5 seconds in my official times and almost 4 at home)



But I did know that OLL case.  I'm not really that consistent, my overall average is still probably 26. I'm in the race to sub 25 now but I do not have many sub 25 Ao12 yet, so I may be there a little while.



EvilGnome6 said:


> Or maybe it's the other way around and the average 3x3 solver is really bad at the big cubes and they should be faster.



Interesting, I like to have psychological theories on stuff like that (and maybe it's not psychological at all). Maybe you feel like 3x3 is too easy to learn so you don't "respect" it as much, which leads to a subconscious lack of motivation to improve. Or maybe because the times are longer for bigger cubes it does not make you feel as rushed, so you relax and focus better and get faster times. Probably none of that, but it's fun to make stuff up. 



Berd said:


> Nice solve! Our setups look almost identcal, check out the 11s I have on my channel haha.



Thanks, that's the best cubing complement I ever got from a young cuber!  I saw your video it is a very similar set up. My iMac is from like 2008 though, I need to get a new computer someday but I don't use it a whole lot these days. Normally I use Windows so I will probably go back to that.


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## Berd (Dec 17, 2015)

Jason Green said:


> Thanks, yes I can see lots of room to improve which I am happy about! I'm not sure *how* soon but that would be cool.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Ha! I'm sure I'm above the average age of a cube, I'm 17! Relieve to some of you guys tho... .


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## Jason Green (Dec 18, 2015)

Berd said:


> Ha! I'm sure I'm above the average age of a cube, I'm 17! Relieve to some of you guys tho... .


True I guess within the cubing group you would not be a "young cuber". That would probably be 8-10. But yeah compared to us guys in our 40s.


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## MarcelP (Dec 18, 2015)

h2f said:


> I got today ao5 sub 20 on cam with slow turning. Okey - let's say it would be slow turning but sometimes I've speeded up.



Awesome! Few things I noticed:
- White cross only is for beginners.. (he he) Seriously, solve nr 4 had two yellow edge pieces connected and already in the correct spot.
- Your cross + 1 is just as fast as mine! All of these 5 solves where under 5 secs.
- F2L incredibly smooth as in pauseless. Good job.
- OLL recognition is too slow.
- PLL recognition is too slow.

I think with the last two points you can shave of 1.5 - 2 seconds on you global average without too much work.



mafergut said:


> I can't believe this. In the middle of my bigger 3x3 crisis since I started cubing I got a PB full-step single by more than 0.3. It could have been sub-13.
> 
> 31. 13.06 F2 D2 B U2 R2 U2 L2 B F' U2 F' D L' F' L2 R' U2 L D2
> 
> ...



Very cool scramble. I had a 13.29 and I failed to see the x-cross. If I had chosen your solution, I would have slotted the last pair rotationless. Is an easy case.. 



muchacho said:


> Not a good solve from my part, but it was such a lolscramble, a 1 move FB, and the SB was 10 moves or so
> 
> 17.351 R2 B2 D2 U R2 U B2 D2 L2 B2 D2 B' L D R2 D2 B' U2 F2 L' D U'



Also good for CFOP:
y2 R' D R' L U' L F' U' F' // Double X-cross


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## h2f (Dec 18, 2015)

MarcelP said:


> Awesome! Few things I noticed:
> - White cross only is for beginners.. (he he) Seriously, solve nr 4 had two yellow edge pieces connected and already in the correct spot.
> - Your cross + 1 is just as fast as mine! All of these 5 solves where under 5 secs.
> - F2L incredibly smooth as in pauseless. Good job.
> ...



 Thank you Marcel for your feedback. It matters to me. My cross+1 was weakiest part of my solves. Intresting that it became better. I solve sometimes with yellow on bottom but I knew it would be 2-3 seconds slower than normal. I think I'll do few sessions with it. And you're right - OLL and PLL recognition is what I thought I must work with. 2 seconds will give me sub20 in global avg.


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## mafergut (Dec 18, 2015)

moralsh said:


> U L U' L' U2 L U' L' without the rotation for the last pair [...]





h2f said:


> Nice solve. The last pair I would do like Raul.[...]





MarcelP said:


> Very cool scramble. I had a 13.29 and I failed to see the x-cross. If I had chosen your solution, I would have slotted the last pair rotationless. Is an easy case.



I'm a patzer, what can I say. It's evident that I desperately need to work on my F2L efficiency. Maybe I'll post more reconstructions so that you guys can help me with that! 



h2f said:


> Thank you Marcel for your feedback. It matters to me. My cross+1 was weakiest part of my solves. Intresting that it became better. I solve sometimes with yellow on bottom but I knew it would be 2-3 seconds slower than normal. I think I'll do few sessions with it. And you're right - OLL and PLL recognition is what I thought I must work with. 2 seconds will give me sub20 in global avg.



I would recommend you to learn 2-sided PLL recognition from this guide that mark49152 created. It's the easiest to learn from in my opinion. I'm already on it. For OLL I don't have any recommendations other than keep doing solves. I have developed a visual connection to the muscular memory to a point that if I try to execute an OLL with an already oriented LL many times I simply can't get the memory trigger to happen or I just do the wrong one. Well, unless it's one of the easy cases, like the Ts or the 2nd look ones. That also is a problem for 4x4, as the different proportions of the center, edges and corners blocks my memory trigger and I end up having to do 2L OLL many times. It's not a muscular memory problem (that I also have in some cases with 4x4) but a recognition one. Does anybody else suffer this problem? I assume that with more 4x4 practice the issue would slowly disappear.


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## MarcelP (Dec 18, 2015)

mafergut said:


> I'm a patzer, what can I say.



LOL.. I did not mean to say your solution is worse or slower. It is a matter of preference. I tend to rotate when I have not yet spotted my next pair.. The rotation could reveal trapped corners.


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## h2f (Dec 18, 2015)

mafergut said:


> I would recommend you to learn 2-sided PLL recognition from this guide that mark49152 created. It's the easiest to learn from in my opinion. I'm already on it. For OLL I don't have any recommendations other than keep doing solves. I have developed a visual connection to the muscular memory to a point that if I try to execute an OLL with an already oriented LL many times I simply can't get the memory trigger to happen or I just do the wrong one. Well, unless it's one of the easy cases, like the Ts or the 2nd look ones. That also is a problem for 4x4, as the different proportions of the center, edges and corners blocks my memory trigger and I end up having to do 2L OLL many times. It's not a muscular memory problem (that I also have in some cases with 4x4) but a recognition one. Does anybody else suffer this problem? I assume that with more 4x4 practice the issue would slowly disappear.



I like Mark's threads - they are very good resources. Once I find something similiar in Internet. I'm not sure if it wasnt' Sarah's page. Lots of Plls I can recon from two sides but there are few it's hard for me. And with OLLs it's much worse in my case.

Thanks for a link, Mafergut! 

I knew it was often asked: LL is 1/3 (34 or 38%) of the solve? This means in sub 20 it should take less than 6,6 seconds?


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## mafergut (Dec 18, 2015)

MarcelP said:


> LOL.. I did not mean to say your solution is worse or slower. It is a matter of preference. I tend to rotate when I have not yet spotted my next pair.. The rotation could reveal trapped corners.



It IS worse and slower but, c'mon, if I didn't like constructive criticism I wouldn't post in this forum. That's what makes this community thrive and what I like so much. Please, keep giving me suggestions and helping me get better. I will try to do the same.



h2f said:


> I like Mark's threads - they are very good resources. Once I find something similiar in Internet. I'm not sure if it wasnt' Sarah's page. Lots of Plls I can recon from two sides but there are few it's hard for me. And with OLLs it's much worse in my case.
> 
> Thanks for a link, Mafergut!
> 
> I knew it was often asked: LL is 1/3 (34 or 38%) of the solve? This means in sub 20 it should take less than 6,6 seconds?



You're welcome! The same happens to me, there are some PLLs that I can recognize from almost any two sides, others only from some combinations of two sides. And it's not only recognition what this method brings to the table but also you learn to immediately identify how to AUF for your alg from that specific "view" for each case so that you can avoid nasty habits such as looking around all the cube before starting to AUF, which can help save half a second or more from most solves. More advanced people also immediately deducts how to post-AUF by looking at how the 2 first layers are relative to the LL, which can also save some tenths.

It's been a while since I last took my splits but I'd say for an 18sec full-step solve I'm like 12 sec cross+F2L and 6 sec LL so it matches that 1/3 rule you mention.


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## Logiqx (Dec 18, 2015)

Jason Green said:


> Got it on cam! Not just a sub 20 but a new PB too.  (PLL skip but that's fine by me)
> 
> https://youtu.be/NIZbB1qpXDc



Nice. Great to see a PB solve and great reaction. 

This thread sure is busy... I've quickly skimmed through the last few weeks worth and a lot seems to have been going on!

I'm now back to cubing after an enforced break following the UKC in November. Life got pretty crazy and I basically stopped cubing to keep on top of everything!

I'm now in a new job with a long commute (1h 40m each way - car, train, tube, train) but I've managed to do some slow / quiet solves to get back into cubing this week (~1hr each day whilst on the trains). I have no desire to do any solves on the tube but slow solving whilst seated on a normal train will be my best opportunity to get some practice.

Annoyingly, I've forgotten some of my OH PLLs by stopping for 6 weeks and a few of my 2H OLLs but the slow solving seems to have paid off. I've just done my first timed session since early November and got a 12.70 full step solve along with a 16.29 Ao5. Nice to see that despite a bit of alg-amnesia, I can still do some good solves.


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## mafergut (Dec 18, 2015)

Welcome back! We were missing you already.
Nice times, it looks like you are one of those people that improves just by taking breaks. I cannot say the same, sadly.


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## Jason Green (Dec 18, 2015)

I have like a 15 minute drive to work. I couldn't handle a long commute, but if it was a train that I could cube on that might be OK. Good solves! I'm not sure what I could do after 6 weeks but I don't want to find out.


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## Logiqx (Dec 18, 2015)

mafergut said:


> Nice times, it looks like you are one of those people that improves just by taking breaks. I cannot say the same, sadly.



I wouldn't say it helps me taking time off but it forces me to focus and try to re-adopt good habits. Slow solving and not caring about my times for a few days feels like a decent way to get back into cubing. My global average is probably slower than it was leading up to UKC but it was cool to get a PB single and Ao5 today. 



Jason Green said:


> I have like a 15 minute drive to work. I couldn't handle a long commute, but if it was a train that I could cube on that might be OK. Good solves! I'm not sure what I could do after 6 weeks but I don't want to find out.



Yeah. The commute isn't great but the opportunity to solve for 30-40 minutes in the morning and the same amount on the way home makes it slightly more bearable. 

p.s. No complaints about noise from my fellow passengers, yet. lol


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## MarcelP (Dec 18, 2015)

Nice to see you back Mike. I also have a 1.5 hour single way drive to work. Best thing to do is put some nice music on your phone and enjoy a power nap both ways.  I rarely cube in the train anymore.


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## Jason Green (Dec 18, 2015)

MarcelP said:


> Nice to see you back Mike. I also have a 1.5 hour single way drive to work. Best thing to do is put some nice music on your phone and enjoy a power nap both ways.  I rarely cube in the train anymore.


Well if you can rest some that gives you better cube practice later I guess. 1.5 hour that sounds like a fool fledged nap! I call a power nap like 15 minutes.


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## muchacho (Dec 19, 2015)

Ao12 PB including also ao5 PB (solves 7 to 11)... but I'm not improving lately, maybe because I'm also not practicing enough, I'm going to postpone 4x4, megaminx and blind for now.

Ao12: 25.966 (was 26.452)
Ao5: 23.821 (was 24.220)



Spoiler: ao12/ao5 times



12. 25.868 U B2 L2 F2 D' F2 R2 U' R2 B2 U2 B D' B' L' B F D2 R F
11. 24.246 D2 F2 U F2 L2 D B2 U B2 U R2 F' L D' R U R2 L U' F' D
10. 23.018 U' L2 U F2 L2 U' B2 R2 F2 L2 D2 F' D' B' R' F' R2 D' L' B' R' D'
9. 31.508 D' F2 U' R2 U2 B2 F2 D' F2 U2 B2 L' F L2 F2 D' U' L D U' F U'
8. 24.199 L2 U B2 U' R2 D L2 U B2 L2 D2 B' L F2 R' U' R' B2 U' B R' U'
7. 21.657 B2 D' U2 R2 B2 F2 D' U2 F2 U' L2 B' L' U' F R2 B R2 D2 B2 F'
6. 31.271 B2 L2 U' L2 D F2 R2 B2 F2 U' L2 F' L' B R' F' D' L D2 L' U' L'
5. 29.606 R2 L2 B2 L2 D R2 L2 D U2 B2 U L U2 B D R2 U' F' U' R2 D'
4. 25.999 D R2 F2 D' B2 U' R2 U' L2 D' R' U F D2 U2 R' F2 L' U R U'
3. 26.271 B2 L2 U2 B2 U F2 D' L2 D' U R2 B' D L D' B2 R B2 D2 U' L U'
2. 26.335 U B2 U' F2 D F2 U' B2 R2 U2 B2 R' B' D F2 D F' L2 D L' D2 U'
1. 22.852 L2 D' F2 D B2 R2 F2 L2 D L2 U2 F' D2 B L F L2 U' L2 B F2 U'


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## h2f (Dec 19, 2015)

Nice times. Close to sub-25 ao 12.


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## muchacho (Dec 19, 2015)

Wait, seems I'm almost faster than you with Roux, so... time to start practicing it again?


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## h2f (Dec 19, 2015)

Definietly you are faster than me in Roux. But no - I'm not going at the moment to pracitce Roux - I'm to close to be sub-20 with CFOP. And 5x5 is waiting too.


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## mark49152 (Dec 19, 2015)

Wow, this thread takes some keeping up with these days. Been a bit busy lately so not much cubing, but I did make it to the Cambridge comp this weekend. Let's see where my lack of practice gets me.

@Chris: Awesome job on the 5x5 ao100. I'm happy if I can find time for an ao12!


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## Logiqx (Dec 19, 2015)

mark49152 said:


> Wow, this thread takes some keeping up with these days. Been a bit busy lately so not much cubing, but I did make it to the Cambridge comp this weekend. Let's see where my lack of practice gets me.
> 
> @Chris: Awesome job on the 5x5 ao100. I'm happy if I can find time for an ao12!


Good luck. I'll be checking cubecomps later. 

Sent from my GT-I9305 using Tapatalk


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## Jason Green (Dec 19, 2015)

Good job muchacho! That reminds me I need to do the race this week. We are going out of town for Christmas so I'm not sure how much practice I'll be doing. I hope to do some each day still.


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## Logiqx (Dec 19, 2015)

Great 3BLD single(s) Mark. 

Sent from my GT-I9305 using Tapatalk


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## moralsh (Dec 19, 2015)

Yep, great single, sub 2 by quite a margin. Nice one Mark!


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## mark49152 (Dec 19, 2015)

Thanks guys. Got a 2:27 mean as well...! My target was sub-3 single so I'm well happy with today 

Any other oldies competing this weekend?


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## h2f (Dec 19, 2015)

Wow. Nice single and you got a mean. Camera? 

patataj patataj patataj


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## bubbagrub (Dec 19, 2015)

mark49152 said:


> Thanks guys. Got a 2:27 mean as well...! My target was sub-3 single so I'm well happy with today
> 
> Any other oldies competing this weekend?



I'll be there tomorrow morning... Star Wars took priority today... 

Edit: Amazing BLD result Mark -- well done!


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## mark49152 (Dec 19, 2015)

bubbagrub said:


> I'll be there tomorrow morning... Star Wars took priority today...
> 
> Edit: Amazing BLD result Mark -- well done!


Star Wars versus cubing... that's a tough call. I was looking for you today - saw that you were registered for 3BLD. Comp was very quiet today.

@Grzegorz: No camera unfortunately!

EDIT: not telling anyone my goal for tomorrow, in case I jinx myself


----------



## newtonbase (Dec 20, 2015)

I've been trying out my new Tangpo so have done an extremely rare timed session in 2x2. The cube is lovely but my PBL recognition is not. Any tips on how to speed it up? I seem to end doing at least one full rotation looking for bars.


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## Isaac Lai (Dec 20, 2015)

newtonbase said:


> I've been trying out my new Tangpo so have done an extremely rare timed session in 2x2. The cube is lovely but my PBL recognition is not. Any tips on how to speed it up? I seem to end doing at least one full rotation looking for bars.



Try and recognise where the opposite colours are. For example, if you see opposite in front and adjacent on the side, you know you have a bar at the back. If you have opposite in front and opposite on the side, you have a diag swap (no bar).


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## mark49152 (Dec 20, 2015)

What Isaac said; plus, try to predict during inspection what permutation you'll get on the bottom layer. Then you know what to expect when you get to PBL and that simplifies recognition. Remember that some Ortega OLLs affect the bottom layer permutation though!

My arm aches this morning from excessive cubing yesterday


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## MarcelP (Dec 20, 2015)

mark49152 said:


> Thanks guys. Got a 2:27 mean as well...! My target was sub-3 single so I'm well happy with today



Congrats Mark! With all the BLD practice it seems to be working for you. Awesome, you deserve it.


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## newtonbase (Dec 20, 2015)

Thanks for the PBL advice. As long as I practice this area I should be good for a PB at Manchester. 

Well done Mark. Podium next time?


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## moralsh (Dec 20, 2015)

Seems like Mark got the 5x5x5 average he didn't want to jinx. that was it, wasn't it? 

Huge congrats on that 2:30 average and good luck for next round!


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## h2f (Dec 20, 2015)

Yes. I've seen in on cubecomps. Congratulations!


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## mark49152 (Dec 20, 2015)

Thanks, yeah, that was my target. Sneaking that 2:28 on the second solve was like scoring a goal. I nearly ripped my shirt off and dived on the table 

Ben got a PB 3x3 average and 5x5 single but he's had to leave early despite making it to 3x3 second round


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## mafergut (Dec 20, 2015)

mark49152 said:


> What Isaac said; plus, try to predict during inspection what permutation you'll get on the bottom layer. Then you know what to expect when you get to PBL and that simplifies recognition. Remember that some Ortega OLLs affect the bottom layer permutation though!
> 
> My arm aches this morning from excessive cubing yesterday



Yeah, predicting the permutation you''l get in the bottom face/layer is a must in Ortega. Not only that but, if you know you'll get a bar you need to know which bar it is and where you put it. E.g.: almost all my PBLs have bottom bar in front so I already make the face so that the bar will end up in front so that I avoid rotations when I have to execute the PBL.


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## chtiger (Dec 20, 2015)

mark49152 said:


> Thanks guys. Got a 2:27 mean as well...! My target was sub-3 single so I'm well happy with today



Great overall times, consistency and accuracy. Did you go safer on your 3rd solve in the finals to make sure you got a mean?


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## Logiqx (Dec 20, 2015)

mark49152 said:


> Thanks, yeah, that was my target. Sneaking that 2:28 on the second solve was like scoring a goal. I nearly ripped my shirt off and dived on the table
> 
> Ben got a PB 3x3 average and 5x5 single but he's had to leave early despite making it to 3x3 second round



Well done both of you... PB fest!


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## mark49152 (Dec 21, 2015)

Logiqx said:


> Well done both of you... PB fest!


Cheers - yeah lots of green blobs on cubecomps today 



chtiger said:


> Great overall times, consistency and accuracy. Did you go safer on your 3rd solve in the finals to make sure you got a mean?


Yes but I didn't start out intending that. I was going for speed again, but struggled with the memo. When I realised it was not going to be fast, I decided to make it safe.


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## JanW (Dec 21, 2015)

Lots of PBs today. Ao5: 30.79, Ao12: 32.00, Ao50: 33.83, Ao100: 34.85. (Best Ao5 was >33 before this.) Only the single remained untouched, still at 26.20 since a couple of weeks back. In the past couple of days I've done a few hundred F2L solves with the metronome, slowly increasing the tempo, and it seems like it's paying off.


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## Jason Green (Dec 21, 2015)

JanW said:


> Lots of PBs today. Ao5: 30.79, Ao12: 32.00, Ao50: 33.83, Ao100: 34.85. (Best Ao5 was >33 before this.) Only the single remained untouched, still at 26.20 since a couple of weeks back. In the past couple of days I've done a few hundred F2L solves with the metronome, slowly increasing the tempo, and it seems like it's paying off.


Cool you'll be under 30 soon I bet!


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## mafergut (Dec 21, 2015)

Yeah, I agree. You will be sub-30 in no time, I'm sure. But, just one piece of advice from what just happened to me. It's the same advice I give me several times every day 

I was solving and, as usual, the times were not really what I expected. Last 12 were:

(21.77), 19.96, 21.50, 18.78, 20.18, (17.87), 20.08, 20.00, 21.33, 19.99, 21.18, 20.38 = 20.34 Ao12.

So, I say to myself, let's stop trying to go fast and let's go slow, focus on lookahead, forget about the times...

And then, in the very next solve, this happens:

14.67 F' U' F' R B' U' L U2 F R2 F2 B2 U2 R2 L' U2 F2 R' U2 L'

Not PB or anything but probably one of my best times (if not the best) while "slow solving" (full step).


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## muchacho (Dec 21, 2015)

JanW said:


> Lots of PBs today. Ao5: 30.79, Ao12: 32.00, Ao50: 33.83, Ao100: 34.85. (Best Ao5 was >33 before this.) Only the single remained untouched, still at 26.20 since a couple of weeks back. In the past couple of days I've done a few hundred F2L solves with the metronome, slowly increasing the tempo, and it seems like it's paying off.



Nice, are you still using your method for LL or a more conventional one?


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## JanW (Dec 21, 2015)

Jason Green said:


> Cool you'll be under 30 soon I bet!


Thanks! Sub-30 still feels far away. Even single sub-30 solves are still quite rare. That Ao5 was exceptional, only time I've ever done consecutive sub-30 solves. But hopefully I'll get there soon.



mafergut said:


> Yeah, I agree. You will be sub-30 in no time, I'm sure. But, just one piece of advice from what just happened to me. It's the same advice I give me several times every day
> 
> ...
> 
> So, I say to myself, let's stop trying to go fast and let's go slow, focus on lookahead, forget about the times...


So familiar! I really need to concentrate on going slow, or times go up by 5+ seconds. 



muchacho said:


> Nice, are you still using your method for LL or a more conventional one?


Yes, still the same one. I'm planning to switch to ZZ and learn PLL as soon as I can say with confidence that I'm sub-30 with this method.


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## h2f (Dec 21, 2015)

JanW said:


> Thanks! Sub-30 still feels far away. Even single sub-30 solves are still quite rare. That Ao5 was exceptional, only time I've ever done consecutive sub-30 solves. But hopefully I'll get there soon.



I'm sure that with slow turning practice you will get sub30 soon than you think. You are very close. Maybe before the end of the year.  

At the moment I do a lot of sight solves with advanced M2/3style based on Mark's thread.


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## newtonbase (Dec 21, 2015)

21.58s PB single. Full step. Used a new OLL I learned here straight into T perm with no AUF or rotation needed. 

Have you considered FMC JanW? I think you'd like it.

edit: 9.23s PB single on 2x2 too but the AO12 was awful. I had a counting solve that was slower than any of my 3x3 solves this evening.


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## JanW (Dec 22, 2015)

Nice PB newtonbase!


newtonbase said:


> Have you considered FMC JanW? I think you'd like it.


Yes, I also think I would like it.  I've looked at it a bit, just the basics, but noticed that I'd need to know a lot more algs, and probably also spend some time with block building methods, before I could do it seriously. I'm pretty sure I will look more into it later, seems very interesting to me.


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## mark49152 (Dec 22, 2015)

My strategy of picking two events and practising only those between comps seemed to work well for me at WTC. I practised only 5x5 and 3BLD since UKC, got good PBs in both, and it didn't seem to hurt my 3x3 or 4x4 too much. I can't decide which two to practise next though. Next comp is end of January and there's no big BLD. Not even sure what my goals should be.



h2f said:


> At the moment I do a lot of sight solves with advanced M2/3style based on Mark's thread.


How's it going? One goal I definitely have is to add some corner comms to my solving. Although I know some, I'm hesitant, and so at comp I revert to simple OP. Same goes for M2. At the comp last weekend, I used very few tricks, I just hammered out basic M2/OP as fast as I could. I'm not sure how to eliminate the hesitation - I would have thought just lots of practice, but that hasn't done it for me...


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## h2f (Dec 22, 2015)

It works fine. I had a tooth pain in the night so I've watched Noah's tutorial about 3style. I've realized I do seldom sighted solves and maybe thats why my accuracy is so bad. Thats why I've tried it. After one day my accuracy today is 7/10 and I've solved using few nice tricks. Same with corner comms - some hard cases when you have to do them backwards because the interchange goes through buffer seemed to me easier. I also started to analyze Ollie's list for big blds and there are few easy tricks for 3style for example y' U' R2 U, M/M2/M' (or r/r2/r' for big cubes). The same is with Meneghetti's list which I use when I cant figure out hot to do a case with comms. I think advanced M2 really makes transition to 3style easy. 

Intresting thing about practicing only 2 events.


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## mark49152 (Dec 22, 2015)

h2f said:


> Intresting thing about practicing only 2 events.


I don't have much practice time these days so figured it would be better to focus rather than try to practise everything. 

For the next 5 weeks I'm thinking maybe 3BLD/multi and 4x4. I'm going to switch from mini to full-size Aosu because I've finally given up hope that the mini's catching will go away. I can't see myself beating 3BLD PB for a while, so might focus on accuracy and multi, as well as learning some comms for fun.

Edit: Maybe 4BLD would be a good way to practise accuracy...


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## h2f (Dec 22, 2015)

I found 4bld my the most liked bld event. You have memorize more information than 3bld not as many as in 5bld. Execution is nice, comms for centers are easy and there are only 6-8 3cycles. But I've never done a week practice - I mean doing only it for a week or few days. It must be intresting. Next week maybe? Or just 5x5 to be sub-3?


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## mark49152 (Dec 22, 2015)

h2f said:


> I found 4bld my the most liked bld event. You have memorize more information than 3bld not as many as in 5bld. Execution is nice, comms for centers are easy and there are only 6-8 3cycles.


Yes I like 4BLD too. It's not enough information to be good practice for 4+ cube multi though. 5BLD might be good for that. Practising multi is boring, so I might do 5BLD as a way of practising memorizing that much info.


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## EvilGnome6 (Dec 23, 2015)

I've been chasing a sub-2 5x5 and I finally got one. Everything flowed spectacularly well and I didn't just squeak under the 2:00 mark, I crushed it with a 1:48. What a rush. I knew I had it after centers and edges were done.


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## Jason Green (Dec 23, 2015)

EvilGnome6 said:


> I've been chasing a sub-2 5x5 and I finally got one. Everything flowed spectacularly well and I didn't just squeak under the 2:00 mark, I crushed it with a 1:48. What a rush. I knew I had it after centers and edges were done.
> 
> http://azcubing.com/img/5x5-1-48.png


Nice!

I'm doing my 4x4 tonight for maybe the??? 8th time?  All done except ready to Google the parity algs again. I think I'm probably under 20 mins I'm not timing.


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## EvilGnome6 (Dec 23, 2015)

Jason Green said:


> Nice!
> 
> I'm doing my 4x4 tonight for maybe the??? 8th time?  All done except ready to Google the parity algs again. I think I'm probably under 20 mins I'm not timing.



Thanks.

Good luck with the 4x4. I'm doing some solves right now, too.


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## Jason Green (Dec 23, 2015)

EvilGnome6 said:


> Thanks.
> 
> Good luck with the 4x4. I'm doing some solves right now, too.


Thanks, I finished up and put it away for a month or so... One of these days I'm going to practice it probably but I'm all 3x3 for now.


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## MarcelP (Dec 23, 2015)

EvilGnome6 said:


> I've been chasing a sub-2 5x5 and I finally got one. Everything flowed spectacularly well and I didn't just squeak under the 2:00 mark, I crushed it with a 1:48. What a rush. I knew I had it after centers and edges were done.
> 
> http://azcubing.com/img/5x5-1-48.png


I am happy with 1.48 on 4X4.  Why is it that you are not way faster on 3x3? I mean, you are more than twice as fast as I am on 5x5..


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## mark49152 (Dec 23, 2015)

EvilGnome6 said:


> I've been chasing a sub-2 5x5 and I finally got one. Everything flowed spectacularly well and I didn't just squeak under the 2:00 mark, I crushed it with a 1:48. What a rush. I knew I had it after centers and edges were done.


Congrats, nice result. I find it really satisfying when a bigger cube solve flows well. It's like a rhythm - once you're in it, the solve goes great, but if you lose it, it's gone. My 2:02 at Sunday's comp was like that - everything just flowed, no locks, no lost pieces or other pauses. I was in the zone, but still couldn't believe it was 30 secs faster than all my other solves that round.


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## mafergut (Dec 23, 2015)

EvilGnome6 said:


> I've been chasing a sub-2 5x5 and I finally got one. Everything flowed spectacularly well and I didn't just squeak under the 2:00 mark, I crushed it with a 1:48. What a rush. I knew I had it after centers and edges were done.



Congrats! Very, very nice. You're the king of big cubes in this thread! You just beat my PB... for 4x4  Now I will have to practice 4x4 again until I am faster than your 5x5 PB, but it's gonna be difficult. I have to time myself at 5x5 for the 1st time yet. I'm sure it will be more than 7 minutes. I fear it could be more than 10.


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## h2f (Dec 23, 2015)

EvilGnome6 said:


> I've been chasing a sub-2 5x5 and I finally got one. Everything flowed spectacularly well and I didn't just squeak under the 2:00 mark, I crushed it with a 1:48. What a rush. I knew I had it after centers and edges were done.
> 
> http://azcubing.com/img/5x5-1-48.png


Wow. Congrats. I must try 555 regular practice.


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## Chree (Dec 23, 2015)

I know I'm one of the few Americans in this thread, but... any of you comin' out my way for Nats 2016?


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## mark49152 (Dec 23, 2015)

Chree said:


> I know I'm one of the few Americans in this thread, but... any of you comin' out my way for Nats 2016?


Unlikely, but I do very occasionally go to Portland for work, so I will be checking my calendar to see if there's reason for me to be in the area.


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## EvilGnome6 (Dec 23, 2015)

I might go to Nats. It's a pretty short flight from Arizona.


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## Selkie (Dec 24, 2015)

Some may recall one of my Christmas break goals of getting a sub 14 Ao5 and sub 15 Ao12 on film. Not achieved it yet but got a non lucky 3x3 PB. About to start another filmed session for those elusive camera averages


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## Jason Green (Dec 24, 2015)

Selkie said:


> Some may recall one of my Christmas break goals of getting a sub 14 Ao5 and sub 15 Ao12 on film. Not achieved it yet but got a non lucky 3x3 PB. About to start another filmed session for those elusive camera averages
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DzQgHXNCo3Y


Very awesome! I already caught it since I'm subscribed to your YouTube channel.


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## Selkie (Dec 24, 2015)

Jason Green said:


> Very awesome! I already caught it since I'm subscribed to your YouTube channel.



Thank you!

The channel has been somewhat stagnant recently but really trying to get the following on film and uploaded over the next couple of weeks:-

3x3: Sub 10 single
3x3: Sub 14 Ao5
3x3: Sub 15 Ao12
4x4: Sub 1:05 Ao5
5x5: Sub 2:00 Single
6x6: Sub 4:10 Single


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## Jason Green (Dec 24, 2015)

Chree said:


> I know I'm one of the few Americans in this thread, but... any of you comin' out my way for Nats 2016?


I doubt it but it would be fun. I do have a niece in Beaverton I might could stay with. 

There is a comp in OKC in January I should try to go to, just three hours away. I'm not sure if I will or not.


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## h2f (Dec 24, 2015)

Selkie said:


> Some may recall one of my Christmas break goals of getting a sub 14 Ao5 and sub 15 Ao12 on film. Not achieved it yet but got a non lucky 3x3 PB. About to start another filmed session for those elusive camera averages
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DzQgHXNCo3Y



Awsome!


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## newtonbase (Dec 25, 2015)

And for Christmas this year I got an AO5 PB of 31.53. First timed solves of the day. 

Merry Christmas everyone.


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## SenorJuan (Dec 25, 2015)

Yes, Merry Christmas to everyone.

I bought a 'lapsed cuber' friend a 2x2x2 LingPo for Christmas. He's busy, so something less time-consuming might amuse him more. I'm curious to see if he will pick up finger-tricks readily - he's old skool, but I'm optimistic.


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## moralsh (Dec 25, 2015)

Merry Christmas to everyone!

got today my first ever sub 9 7x ao12, I'm really loving the event, I plant to keep 7x practice for some more days and then some BLD, gotta get ready for my first 2016 comp


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## Lid (Dec 26, 2015)

Merry Christmas everyone here to.

Did some xmas Sq-1 solving (~150 solves, around 21.7 avg for the session ...) best a12 ended up at *19.41* (4 parities) (ba5 was mid 18's & single 11.95 ).

edit: 21.507[p], (13.508), 18.264, 21.706, 16.763, 21.436, 19.140, 17.749, 21.548[p], 19.481[p], (26.973[p]), 16.467 = 19.406


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## muchacho (Dec 27, 2015)

2 sub-20 today, but barely sub-20 and that's in an almost "most solves in a day" PB, so kind of meh. I'm using the Weilong again, I missed how much better M/M' moves during LSE are with that cube.

Merry Christmas!


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## muchacho (Dec 28, 2015)

Oh, 3x3 OH is not that bad (apart from LSE), I kind of like it.

1:31.02 ao5

01:24.516 R2 F2 D' F2 D2 R2 L2 D' R2 D' R' B' R F U R' D2 F' D L U2
01:30.922 R2 D L2 D' U' B2 U' B2 R2 F2 U L U B' R F' R' F' L' U L' D'
02:07.591	DNF	U R2 D L2 D L2 D2 B2 R2 B2 F2 L' B' D R D2 B' F' U2 R' F' U2
01:13.851 R2 U2 R2 D B2 U' F2 L2 D' R2 D B L' U' R' D2 B D B R' D2 U'
01:37.634 D2 B2 F2 D' R2 L2 U' F2 R2 D U L F' R' F' R2 F2 U' R2 D2 B F'


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## Lid (Dec 28, 2015)

Even better Sq-1 today: *19.290* but only 2 parities & my second best a12 on 3x3; *16.07*

Using stickerless QiYi & HuaLong 

Sq1 times: 16.497, 18.495, 19.902, (26.050[p]), 15.638, 20.408, 21.084, 18.123, 19.834, (14.108), 24.691[p], 18.224


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## newtonbase (Dec 28, 2015)

Took me 23 solves to get a sub 40s AO12. Lost my ability to find pieces after a very long day. The day had stated with a nice blind solve at 6am but went downhill.


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## Jason Green (Dec 29, 2015)

I registered for the OK City competition on the 16th. I'm pretty excited and a little nervous. My goal is to get an average (don't DNF)


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## muchacho (Dec 29, 2015)

Good luck!

Only 3x3? do 2x2 too, make more of (the journey? and) that registration money! (too high in USA comps it seems to me, it's more like 6-9 dollars in Spain)


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## Jason Green (Dec 29, 2015)

muchacho said:


> Good luck!
> 
> Only 3x3? do 2x2 too, make more of that registration money! (too high in USA comps it seems to me)


Thanks! I would if I could solve it without my cheat sheets.  I don't want to practice anything new in the next few weeks.


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## h2f (Dec 29, 2015)

Good Luck Jason.


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## newtonbase (Dec 29, 2015)

Enjoy yourself Jason. 

What a difference 6 hours sleep makes. AO12 PB beaten 3 times ending up at 32.87s. Only 1 solve out of 27 over 40s.


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## muchacho (Dec 29, 2015)

Jason Green said:


> I don't want to practice anything new in the next few weeks.


Have you practiced picking the cube? And with background noise and some people moving around? That learning may make sense.


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## muchacho (Dec 29, 2015)

newtonbase said:


> Enjoy yourself Jason.
> 
> What a difference 6 hours sleep makes. AO12 PB beaten 3 times ending up at 32.87s. Only 1 solve out of 27 over 40s.



I sleep 7-8 hours and 1 out of 20 solves is always over 40s, I may try sleeping 6 hours to see if it's better


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## Jason Green (Dec 29, 2015)

muchacho said:


> Have you practiced picking the cube? And with background noise and some people moving around? That learning may make sense.


Yes I have although I better get back to timed inspections for now also, and practice more pick up and set down. I do not have a stack mat timer yet.


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## chtiger (Dec 29, 2015)

Jason Green said:


> Yes I have although I better get back to timed inspections for now also, and practice more pick up and set down. I do not have a stack mat timer yet.



Make sure to wait for the green light on the timer before removing your hands and starting. Easy way to get a DNF, especially if your inspection time is low and you rush to start, and you haven't used a stackmat before either. I learned the hard way.


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## Jason Green (Dec 29, 2015)

chtiger said:


> Make sure to wait for the green light on the timer before removing your hands and starting. Easy way to get a DNF, especially if your inspection time is low and you rush to start, and you haven't used a stackmat before either. I learned the hard way.


Thank you, that is likely to be a problem area as I catch myself doing it on cstimer with the space bar very often... I usually notice when it pops up +2 on the screen and I am about done with f2l


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## mark49152 (Dec 29, 2015)

Jason Green said:


> Thank you, that is likely to be a problem area as I catch myself doing it on cstimer with the space bar very often... I usually notice when it pops up +2 on the screen and I am about done with f2l


Yeah I would definitely agree that stackmat practice is essential, or as best as you can approximate it. I did an hour or two of practice before my first comp and is was harder than I expected to get used to it. Also, time your inspection, but don't use the whole 15 secs. In a comp, when they call 8, you should really start to go. 12 comes faster than you expect after that, and then you really have barely enough time to put the cube down and start the timer. If you're still holding the cube at 12, you're cutting it very close, and the best you can hope for is a panicked start .


----------



## Jason Green (Dec 29, 2015)

mark49152 said:


> Yeah I would definitely agree that stackmat practice is essential, or as best as you can approximate it. I did an hour or two of practice before my first comp and is was harder than I expected to get used to it. Also, time your inspection, but don't use the whole 15 secs. In a comp, when they call 8, you should really start to go. 12 comes faster than you expect after that, and then you really have barely enough time to put the cube down and start the timer. If you're still holding the cube at 12, you're cutting it very close, and the best you can hope for is a panicked start .


Maybe I'll order a stackmat on Amazon Prime tonight.  I expect full panic on every solve. Haha


----------



## newtonbase (Dec 29, 2015)

I remember at my first comp seeing someone putting his hands flat on the table before each practice solve and slapping them back down at the end. He wasn't even timing himself. It seemed bizarre at the time but does make sense.


----------



## Jason Green (Dec 30, 2015)

I have a couple of questions on the competition. Will I need to have more than one cube to solve during the Ao5 rounds? Seems they might give you the next cube right away so you don't have to wait on next scramble, but I really am only used to my Gans 356 compared to the others.

Are the same scrambles given to every competitor? This is just out of curiosity because I was never sure, it will not matter for me. It seems like some might be so good they could gain an advantage by seeing the scramble from a distance while someone else does it.

Another curiosity thing that won't *really* matter.... they will set the cube down in no particular orientation right? I'm pretty sure they would. For me that might add a half second or so to inspection compared to doing my own scrambles where I know I am starting with white on bottom. But I can start changing that in my practice also.


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## EvilGnome6 (Dec 30, 2015)

Jason Green said:


> I have a couple of questions on the competition. Will I need to have more than one cube to solve during the Ao5 rounds? Seems they might give you the next cube right away so you don't have to wait on next scramble, but I really am only used to my Gans 356 compared to the others.



You don't need more than one cube. After your solve they will take it and scramble it again for your next attempt. I personally like having more than one main so I have something to stay warmed up while I'm waiting.



> Are the same scrambles given to every competitor? This is just out of curiosity because I was never sure, it will not matter for me. It seems like some might be so good they could gain an advantage by seeing the scramble from a distance while someone else does it.



Yes. Each competitor gets the same scramble for each attempt. The only exception is when there are heats and you change out scramblers so they can take their turn competing.



> Another curiosity thing that won't *really* matter.... they will set the cube down in no particular orientation right? I'm pretty sure they would. For me that might add a half second or so to inspection compared to doing my own scrambles where I know I am starting with white on bottom. But I can start changing that in my practice also.



Your cube will be set down in a random orientation and you cannot request a specific orientation. When practicing, I generally try to orient it in random ways to get some practice at orienting it.

All of this is covered in the regulations:

https://www.worldcubeassociation.org/regulations/

And it's worth watching the competitor tutorial video that Chris Olson made:

http://www.cubingusa.com/ctutorial.php


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## Jason Green (Dec 30, 2015)

EvilGnome6 said:


> You don't need more than one cube. After your solve they will take it and scramble it again for your next attempt. I personally like having more than one main so I have something to stay warmed up while I'm waiting.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks I'll read those completely before I go. I had skimmed through searching for the answers but missed them. I'll definitely take an extra cube also!

Doing my practice tonight just got a new PB single. My more "diligent" practice is taking a little getting used to but it will help I think (not deleting any botched solves either, DNF or finish).


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## EvilGnome6 (Dec 30, 2015)

Unsolicited tip: Make sure the timer is reset before you say you're ready. The judge is supposed to reset it but they often forget. Make it part of your routine when you take a seat.


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## Jason Green (Dec 30, 2015)

EvilGnome6 said:


> Unsolicited tip: Make sure the timer is reset before you say you're ready. The judge is supposed to reset it but they often forget. Make it part of your routine when you take a seat.


Thanks again, I just ordered a stackmat to practice with.


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## mark49152 (Dec 30, 2015)

Jason Green said:


> Thanks again, I just ordered a stackmat to practice with.


Funny thing I remember from starting stackmat practice: one of the things I found hardest was throwing the cube down to stop the timer with both hands. Instinctively my hands just did not want to do it because it felt like I might damage the cube and I had always protected them against dropping etc.


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## muchacho (Dec 30, 2015)

Ao12 under 25 seconds, 24.935 (it was 25.449), and solves 5-9 are also ao5 PB, 22.154 (it was 23.821). It felt great to get a sub-25, and also an ao5 PB 



Spoiler: times/scrambles



12. 26.223 R2 D' R2 D2 B2 U' F2 U' F2 L B D' R' B2 D' F' L B' R D
11. 25.838 R2 L2 F2 D U2 L2 U B2 U L2 B2 R B' L' D' L2 D L' U' R B' L'
10. 33.157 F2 D B2 L2 U' B2 R2 D' U2 R2 U' L' U' R B L' D L U' R2 L2
9. 21.117 L2 B2 F2 U2 R2 U' R2 B2 D' B2 U2 R U' F' L' B R U R F2 U'
8. 22.335 B2 U F2 D L2 D R2 D' L2 F2 U2 F' U R U2 L D' U' R' L2 D'
7. 26.022 B2 F2 U R2 L2 B2 D U F2 L2 U2 R' F U2 B U2 R2 B U L
6. 22.337 L2 F2 U2 R2 U' F2 U' F2 L2 D R2 B' D2 R B2 F' L D2 R' D R
5. 21.791 D2 F2 U F2 U R2 D' B2 F2 D' U R' F2 U2 F' D' R2 L2 F' U F' U'
4. 27.870 R2 D2 B2 R2 U' R2 D F2 D L F D2 R D' F D2 F' L2 B U'
3. 21.791 L2 F2 D U F2 U' B2 R2 F2 D2 U' B' U' F2 R U L D F D B' U
2. 27.759 B2 L2 F2 R2 U' R2 F2 D2 U' L2 D R' B2 D2 B' L' B R2 L2 F D2 U'
1. 27.391 L2 U2 L2 D2 F2 U' L2 U' F2 D2 U2 B' L' B2 D2 L2 F2 U' B' R D2 U'




Also, I posted a video in the Roux thread, 3 solves with reconstructions. I'm working in making shorter FB, sometimes I can, but still struggling to lookahead at the same time if the moves are not easy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ewpNkdeP8Q



Spoiler: Mo3 reconstructions



1.
U' F2 U2 B2 D B2 U R2 B2 U R2 F R L2 F L' U' F' R2 F' U2

x' y2
R' Rw' Uw R' M' U' M2 L U' L' // FB (10) (6.0s)
M U' R2 M R' U R U' M2 U2 Rw U Rw' M' U M L' B' L // SB (19) (12.7s)
U' Lw U R' D R U' R U' R2 D' R U Lw' // CMLL (14) (5.0s)
M' U M U' M U' M' U M' // EO (9) (2.2s)
U2 M' U2 M' U M2 U M2 U2 // (9) (3.8s)

https://alg.cubing.net/?alg=x-_y2
R..._D_B2_U_R2_B2_U_R2_F_R_L2_F_L-_U-_F-_R2_F-_U2

61 STM
29.751s


2.
B2 D R2 L2 F2 D' U2 B2 U' R2 U R' B' F L' B' R' U' L2 F2 R' U'

z y2
Uw U L' U L U' M2 U2 B // FB (9) (3.9s)
M' U' R2 M R U' R' U M' R U' R' U2 M2 Rw' U' Rw (17) // SB (9.4s)
U' R U2 R' U' R U' R' // CMLL-2 (8) (2.0s)
U M U' M U' M' U M' M2 // EO + LR edges on D (9) (2.8s)
U2 R U2 R' U' R U2 L' U R' U' L // CMLL-2 (12) (2.9s)
U2 M2 U' M U2 M' U2 M2 U2 M2 // (10) (3.2s)

https://alg.cubing.net/?setup=B2_D_...U2_L-_U_R-_U-_L
U2_M2_U-_M_U2_M-_U2_M2_U2_M2


65 STM
24.183s


3.
R2 D L2 U2 R2 D' R2 F2 D B2 U' B L' U L' D2 L2 F L B' L' D2

x2
Uw U' Rw' U M' U2' L U' L' F' R2' U' M' M U2 M' F' // FB (17) (8.9s)
U M' U R2 U M U' M' Rw U Rw' R' U R U M2 U2 R' U R // SB (20) (7.9s)
U' F R' F' R U R U' R' // CMLL-1 (9) (2.1s)
M' U M U' M' U2 M' // EO + LR edges on D (7) (2.1s)
U R U2 R' U' R U2 L' U R' U' L // CMLL-2 (12) (2.8s)
U2 M2 U M2 U2 M' U2 M2 U2 M // (10) (3.1s)

https://alg.cubing.net/?setup=R2_D_...R_U2_L-_U_R-_U-_L
U2_M2_U_M2_U2_M-_U2_M2_U2_M

75 STM
26.822s


----------



## Jason Green (Jan 1, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> Funny thing I remember from starting stackmat practice: one of the things I found hardest was throwing the cube down to stop the timer with both hands. Instinctively my hands just did not want to do it because it felt like I might damage the cube and I had always protected them against dropping etc.


Yes I think that will be hard for me to get used to, I already anticipated that. I got my mat yesterday, unfortunately I have not even opened it because I've got a nasty case of cellulitis. I barely even knew what it was but I've been to the doc twice and sleeping the rest of the time. Hopefully the antibiotics will work and I can make the competition on the 16th!

Muchacho it's fun watching your vids. Your speed is close to mine so that I should be able to tell what you're doing, but given I know little about Roux I am clueless.


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## muchacho (Jan 1, 2016)

Don't worry, sometimes I realize how little about Roux I know myself, and CFOP looks like black magic to me.

In Spanish cellulitis and cellulite share the same word (celulitis), so I was a bit confused at first haha 

Get well soon!


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## h2f (Jan 1, 2016)

I did a multibld today - first attempt with more than 3 cubes since Polish Nationals in October. Memo was slow and calm. Images were fine and vivid. Result: 4/5 with mistake in flipping alg - I did R instead of r and I knew there's a mistake. I have such lockups with alg execution from time to time.


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## EvilGnome6 (Jan 3, 2016)

I managed to beat my previous Sunday Single by a few seconds with a 4:08. Not bad. I had a few sub-4s recently but didn't quite manage one this session. I'll get there.

Cube used was a MoYu AoShi.


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## mafergut (Jan 4, 2016)

I've been without Internet for like 10 days (due to vacation) and mostly practising 2-sided PLL recognition. I almost have learned it all but I'm still much slower recognising some of the trickier cases than just looking around the cube so I cannot use it yet for timed solves. Happy new year to you all.


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## EvilGnome6 (Jan 4, 2016)

mafergut said:


> I've been without Internet for like 10 days (due to vacation) and mostly practising 2-sided PLL recognition. I almost have learned it all but I'm still much slower recognising some of the trickier cases than just looking around the cube so I cannot use it yet for timed solves. Happy new year to you all.



Welcome back. I would like to try 2-sided recognition someday but I'm working on full OH OLL and PLL first. Happy New Year!


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## mafergut (Jan 4, 2016)

EvilGnome6 said:


> Welcome back. I would like to try 2-sided recognition someday but I'm working on full OH OLL and PLL first. Happy New Year!



I was trying a different approach to OH which is, instead of full OLL, just 1st look (if needed, also trying to do a bit more EO during F2L), after EO / 1st look, COLL + EPLL. So this Christmas I also carried with me the printed COLL guide from Andy Klise's site but I ended up focusing on PLL 2SR and just learned the 4 H cases and 1 additional Pi case


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## moralsh (Jan 5, 2016)

EvilGnome6 said:


> I managed to beat my previous Sunday Single by a few seconds with a 4:08. Not bad. I had a few sub-4s recently but didn't quite manage one this session. I'll get there.
> 
> Cube used was a MoYu AoShi.



Sub 4 are pretty good times, I don't have a decent 6x6 (waiting for a non candy colors stickerless) to see where am I, but I'd say sub 5 at most

I'm still practicing 7x7 and broke some PBs today:

Single 7:45
Ao5 8:09
A012 8:33

splits for the 7:45 are 4:20 2:45 and 40, which shows I need some serious work on centers.


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## h2f (Jan 6, 2016)

I got first sub 15 solve for a long time. I'm quite happy though I could do it without any rotations but I didnt see it during speedsolve. My excuse is that I've back home at 6 am and slept only 3 hours. 

Scramble: L2 B L2 D2 L2 F2 L2 F U2 R2 D2 U' F R U' L D B2 L' D2 L'
x2 // preinspection
U R' D F R D // cross
U L' U' L U L' U' L U L' U' L//
U R U' R' //
y2 U' R U2 R' U' R U R'
U2 L' U L // 
U' F U R U' R' U R U' R' F'
U R2 U' R' U' R U R U R U' R

alg.cubing.net


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## muchacho (Jan 6, 2016)

Congrats, what events are you practicing more now?


_23.02 for me...without rotations _


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## h2f (Jan 6, 2016)

Mostly 3bld and 4bld with edge comms. I also started an attempt of one year 4bld delayed solve like Ollie Frost - I had the same idea like him in the same time. I will upload a video with English commentary soon.

And what are you practicing now?


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## muchacho (Jan 6, 2016)

3x3... and just a bit of 2x2 to try to be sub-8, no time for more.

I'm trying the thunderclap, it's nice so far (I've done like 100 solves, not lubing or adjusting tensions for now).


_edit: I forgot 3x3 OH, just 5 solves a day or so._


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## h2f (Jan 6, 2016)

I've thought you are sub-8. Are you doing it whit clls (or cmlls)?

I love thunderclap.


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## muchacho (Jan 6, 2016)

In the "race to sub-x" thread I'm racing to sub-8 and I just need another good ao12, I don't want to fail now.

Sometimes I use cmll, when I see in inspection that I will get a full layer built down and I get a H or Pi case, but for now it's only a bit faster than not using cmll and sometimes even slower.


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## h2f (Jan 6, 2016)

I think at some point in 2x2 it's worth to learn clls. Chris Olson claims you can be sub-3 with it.


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## muchacho (Jan 6, 2016)

I'm probably too old and too bad for sub-3. But I like 2x2, I will try to be fast... for an old guy, so by fast I mean sub-5, I won't learn cll (I'll use cmll instead) but I will probably try to learn eg-1 at some point (maybe some cll algs that are much better than cmlls).


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## h2f (Jan 6, 2016)

Some clls are much easier than cmlls. Sub 6 is good enough for me.


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## muchacho (Jan 6, 2016)

Sure, but I fear that if I try to learn too many algs I won't be able to practice enough to be able to recall+execute them fast (or even to avoid forgetting them).


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## MarcelP (Jan 6, 2016)

h2f said:


> I got first sub 15 solve for a long time. I'm quite happy though I could do it without any rotations but I didnt see it during speedsolve. My excuse is that I've back home at 6 am and slept only 3 hours.
> 
> Scramble: L2 B L2 D2 L2 F2 L2 F U2 R2 D2 U' F R U' L D B2 L' D2 L'



Hi guys, 

I have not cubed in december other then the 5 weekly contest solves 

@ hf2, Cool.. that is fazt... 

My solution:

16.72

z2 y' // insspection
R D' B' R' F' D2 // CROSS (6)
R U2 R' U' R U R' (7)
y' U' R U2 R' L U' L2 U L (10)
L U2 L' U2 L U' L' (7)
U' R U' R' U F' U' F (8)
U' L F' L' U' L U F U' L' // OLL (10)
U M2' U' M2' U' M' U2' M2' U2' M' //PLL (10)
58 moves = 3.4 tps

https://alg.cubing.net


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## h2f (Jan 6, 2016)

Thanks Marcel. Nice cross and solution. How fast are you with Zperm? I'm learning it with M slices...


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## MarcelP (Jan 7, 2016)

h2f said:


> Thanks Marcel. Nice cross and solution. How fast are you with Zperm? I'm learning it with M slices...



That is my fastest PLL.. And that's because you can do the M' and M2' with right hand and U' and U2' with left  It's awesome.. try it..


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## h2f (Jan 7, 2016)

MarcelP said:


> That is my fastest PLL.. And that's because you can do the M' and M2' with right hand and U' and U2' with left  It's awesome.. try it..



Just realize it...


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## mark49152 (Jan 7, 2016)

MarcelP said:


> That is my fastest PLL.. And that's because you can do the M' and M2' with right hand and U' and U2' with left  It's awesome.. try it..


That Z perm is a bit faster for me if I do M' U' at the start instead of U2 M' at the end.

I do it mirrored though: M' U M2 U M2 U M' U2 M2.

Welcome back, Marcel, I wondered where you'd gone


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## h2f (Jan 7, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> That Z perm is a bit faster for me if I do M' U' at the start instead of U2 M' at the end.
> 
> I do it mirrored though: M' U M2 U M2 U M' U2 M2.



I do the same alg.One of yt user's I subscribe just put it few days ago. My times with it now are the same like Z perm with RU alg so it's worth learning. BTW Mark I also started use the alg you put in advanced M2 thread for BU sticker.


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## mark49152 (Jan 7, 2016)

h2f said:


> BTW Mark I also started use the alg you put in advanced M2 thread for BU sticker.


That's cool, it's just an edge flip alg cancelled into an M2. I can't remember where I found it but don't know why I didn't think of it myself


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## h2f (Jan 7, 2016)

Yeah, the alg is fine and fast.


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## mafergut (Jan 7, 2016)

h2f said:


> I think at some point in 2x2 it's worth to learn clls. Chris Olson claims you can be sub-3 with it.



Yeah but he also claims that you can be sub 3.5 with Ortega so, comparing we are just talking about maybe 1sec improvement. For me not worth it the 42 algs to learn... yet. And then you will want to learn EG-1 and maybe EG-2 and you end up with 126 algs just for 2x2, which is a lot more than what I know for 3x3. I'm at around 5.5 with Ortega and even if I was sure I would get down to 4.5 with full CLL/EG I doubt I would have the willpower to learn all those algs.

Chris Olson can perform the 4x4 OLL parity alg in 1.8 so his speed indications are only relevant if you can be as fast as him  I certainly can't

EDIT: By the way, after so many 3x3 main changes lately since my long period with the YJ Chilong (Moyu Huanying, Moyu Yueying, tried the Yuxin but it was a no, tried the Meiying but it is too fast, now back and forth between the Tanglong and the Yueying...), now that the Tanglong is well broken in I'm starting to like it a lot because it is not too fast, it's stable and a bit blocky. Then I remembered all those things were what I liked the most of my old Chilong... I got it from the drawer and... maybe I should have just cleaned it and keep using it, because I like it on par or even better than the Tanglong... and it's been without lubing since almost a year now.


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## EvilGnome6 (Jan 7, 2016)

mafergut said:


> Chris Olson can perform the 4x4 OLL parity alg in 1.8 so his speed indications are only relevant if you can be as fast as him  I certainly can't



I venture to say his TPS is a little higher than any of ours. 



> EDIT: By the way, after so many 3x3 main changes lately since my long period with the YJ Chilong...



As I have been doing more OH with 54.6mm - 55mm cubes, the YuXin is beginning to feel monstrous to me. I'm really liking the Newisland Lightning/QiYi Thunderclap now. It's a hair smaller than the typical 57mm cube and sets up well with loose or tight tensions.


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## mafergut (Jan 7, 2016)

EvilGnome6 said:


> As I have been doing more OH with 54.6mm - 55mm cubes, the YuXin is beginning to feel monstrous to me. I'm really liking the Newisland Lightning/QiYi Thunderclap now. It's a hair smaller than the typical 57mm cube and sets up well with loose or tight tensions.



The Thunderclap has also a very nice feeling but, for me, the size is an issue but for opposite reasons. I feel it's a tiny bit too small for me (I also use regular, 57mm-sized cubes for OH). Anyway, I'll give it a second try but I will probably settle for the Tanglong for both OH and 2H but I plan on cleaning and relubing my Chilong... just in case .


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## Logiqx (Jan 7, 2016)

i had my strangest solve on the way to work today. Cross, F2L-1, F2L-2, OLL... solved!

The chance of two F2L slots accidentally solving themselves whilst working on other pairs is 1 in 32,400 (comparable to a cross skip). Finishing with a PLL skip was surreal given the F2L skips. The combined probability of the F2L skips and PLL skip is 1 in 2,332,800.

Shame I wasn't timing and turning at full speed!

Yes... it was a hand scramble but there really wasn't anything peculiar during inspection. The first F2L pairs were typical 7 movers and the OLL was one of the C-shapes. A definite "what the..." moment... twice in one solve!


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## h2f (Jan 7, 2016)

mafergut said:


> Yeah but he also claims that you can be sub 3.5 with Ortega so, comparing we are just talking about maybe 1sec improvement. For me not worth it the 42 algs to learn... yet. And then you will want to learn EG-1 and maybe EG-2 and you end up with 126 algs just for 2x2, which is a lot more than what I know for 3x3. I'm at around 5.5 with Ortega and even if I was sure I would get down to 4.5 with full CLL/EG I doubt I would have the willpower to learn all those algs.
> 
> Chris Olson can perform the 4x4 OLL parity alg in 1.8 so his speed indications are only relevant if you can be as fast as him  I certainly can't.




That's intresting point of view. It looks like I need to practice my PBLs to be sub-6. But on the other hand maybe it could be much easier with clls? The main factor in such cases is the answer on question if solving with it gives more fun than solving without it. I knew all cmlls and most of them are usefull in 2x2 but forgot many of them. At the moment I'm not going to relearn them but one day...


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## FastCubeMaster (Jan 8, 2016)

NO WAYY!!!!!
OLL SKIP U PERM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 10.82
PB is 9.00 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## LL Cool Skip (Jan 8, 2016)

h2f said:


> The main factor in such cases is the answer on question if solving with it gives more fun than solving without it.



In my opinion it is much more fun to solve a layer than it is to solve a face. Inspection is also much more interesting. 
You already know the recognition, algs are easy.


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## mafergut (Jan 8, 2016)

LL Cool Skip said:


> In my opinion it is much more fun to solve a layer than it is to solve a face. Inspection is also much more interesting.
> You already know the recognition, algs are easy.



Well, I can agree that solving a layer is more of a challenge than solving a face and it is also more varied (because of the 42 algs) to do CLL than Ortega (which is like 6-12 PBLs and becomes a bit boring after some time). But the point is that CLL will only give a substantial advantage over Ortega if you can one-look most of your solves, which is next to impossible in Ortega, because of the 3-step solve. But solving a layer is not always easy (easy = 4 or less moves), and if the layer takes 5-6 moves it is completely impossible for me to visualize the resulting top layer to the point of identifying the CLL case (not even the OLL case). That's where EG comes in, allowing to build an easy face so that you can one-look the solve (and save some moves as well).


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## muchacho (Jan 8, 2016)

My plan is to learn EG-1 so I don't have to plan full layers, I bet it would take me long time to be fast at that. I'm just hoping sub-5 is possible for me without one-looking frequently (or probably I won't be able to make it).

I'm sure it's more fun to solve a layer, at least it would be totally funny seeing me trying to build a layer right now in less than 15 seconds (after 15 seconds inspection), I would probably fail


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## mafergut (Jan 8, 2016)

muchacho said:


> My plan is to learn EG-1 so I don't have to plan full layers, I bet it would take me long time to be fast at that. I'm just hoping sub-5 is possible for me without one-looking frequently (or probably I won't be able to make it).
> 
> I'm sure it's more fun to solve a layer, at least it would be totally funny seeing me trying to build a layer right now in less than 15 seconds (after 15 seconds inspection), I would probably fail



Chris Olson made recently a very good video tutorial on how to make a layer for CLL solvers. It's worth your time, I guess. I learned some useful tricks.


----------



## h2f (Jan 8, 2016)

I just equalized my pb: 13.86, but the scramble was so easy. My excuse I wasnt warmed up and got a small break from job.

F2 D' R' L' F2 B' L B' R2 D2 F2 R2 D' B2 U F2 B2 U' B2 R

z2 //preinspection
D' R' F2 D' // cross
U2 L U L' //
U' L' U L//
U' R U' R'//
y R U' R' U R U R'//
U R U2 R' U' R U' R'// oll antisune
R' U R' U' R' U' R' U R U R2 // U perm

alg.cubing.net

42htm/13.86 = 3.03 tps


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## mafergut (Jan 8, 2016)

h2f said:


> I just equalized my pb: 13.86, but the scramble was so easy. My excuse I wasnt warmed up and got a small break from job.
> 
> F2 D' R' L' F2 B' L B' R2 D2 F2 R2 D' B2 U F2 B2 U' B2 R
> 
> ...



Nice solve!
When I checked the scramble with your cross solution I first saw the already made pair you inserted 2nd. Did you see both and realized that the 1st insertion would preserve the 2nd pair or was it just by chance?

EDIT: Forget about it. Inserting in the other order the 1st insertion pairs up the 2nd one anyway


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## h2f (Jan 8, 2016)

During preinspection I saw almost ready insert for red/blue pair. I wasnt sure if it's in good posiotin. I havent seen any other pair, but after insert I've seen both. I wasnt sure if I can preserve orange/green.

Edit: 9.53 when I redo scramble.


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## moralsh (Jan 8, 2016)

Is anybody around here interested in a 2 day comp in Madrid with all events and decent cutoffs? 

We're organizing Cubéate (Cube yourself) Weekend 2016 in Madrid on Feb 27-28, is the same venue as last year's MAD Cube weekend, which was awesome.

Come on, you may still find cheap flights.

mafergut, muchacho, it's closer for you guys, it'll be fun!

EDIT: Comp link: https://www.worldcubeassociation.org/results/c.php?i=CubeateWeekend2016


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## muchacho (Jan 8, 2016)

There is a comp in Zaragoza, which is much closer to me (Logroño), one week later, I may go to that one.


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## APdRF (Jan 8, 2016)

But that one will not be better


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## muchacho (Jan 8, 2016)

I don't need much, it will be good enough (unless lighting sucks), next year maybe 

Registered on 2x2, 3x3 and 3x3oh:
https://www.worldcubeassociation.org/competitions/ZaragozaOpen2016/registrations


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## muchacho (Jan 8, 2016)

So I register for my first comp, and 23 solves later I've beaten my mo3 2 times, my ao5, and my ao12 4 solves in a row. That's a good sign 

Mo3: 20.731 (was 22.153)
Ao5: 21.865 (was 22.154)
Ao12: 24.017 (was 24.935)



Spoiler



23-> 28.703 U R2 D' L2 U2 R2 F2 D2 B2 L2 F2 R' F2 U' R2 B D U' B F' L2
23.774 U' R2 D' U' F2 L2 U B2 F2 L2 D B' L' D2 R' D' F2 R B2 F2 L' U'
23.735 R2 B2 D' B2 U R2 D' F2 D' L2 U' R' B' D' L D R2 B' U L D'
31.270 D' R2 B2 U2 F2 D' L2 F2 L2 B2 D B D2 R' D2 F R' B' F R' L
24.094 F2 U' F2 L2 D2 R2 D F2 D2 B2 D R' F R' F' R L2 U2 B F L U'
26.030 U2 R2 B2 D' U2 B2 F2 R2 U B2 U2 L' B U' L2 D F R' U B U2 R'
24.343 D L2 U R2 L2 D B2 D R2 B2 R2 B' U B2 F' U F2 U' L' F' R' U'
22.854 U2 R2 U L2 F2 L2 F2 D' L2 D' R2 F D2 F' L D2 B F U B2 F U'
21.591 B2 F2 U2 F2 D B2 L2 F2 D2 L2 U' B D2 F2 R U2 B' L B D2 L
21.151 L2 D' B2 D L2 D F2 D2 B2 R2 U R' D U2 L2 B L2 F' D' R D2 U2
19.453 R2 F2 L2 D2 U' R2 D' L2 B2 U' R' F2 L D' U2 R' F D L2 U'
23.903 L2 B2 F2 L2 D U2 R2 D B2 U F R' F R2 B' U' R B2 R
47.373 F2 L2 U2 R2 U R2 F2 D R2 B2 U L' F2 U' L F L2 B R' B2 R' U'
28.407 U2 L2 B2 U' L2 D' B2 D' R2 U L2 B L' B R' D' B F L D L2 U
28.998 L2 U' R2 D L2 B2 F2 U' B2 U F2 R' L' B R B2 R U' R2 L F' D'
27.014 D' R2 L2 B2 U R2 U' F2 D' B2 U R D R U R2 B D' R' B2 L' D2
36.686 D' B2 L2 U L2 U' R2 B2 R2 F2 D2 L B R' F R2 U' F D' R F2
23.775 D R2 D B2 U2 L2 D2 R2 B2 L2 U' L U2 F' R' B' F' U' R2 F L
23.639 L2 F2 U2 B2 U' F2 U R2 B2 L2 U2 B U B F' D' B R2 F' R B
24.863 D' B2 D2 U' R2 U B2 R2 B2 U2 F2 R B' L2 B2 L' D U L' F R'
27.103 U F2 D' R2 F2 U' F2 U F2 D L2 B F2 D R L' D U B' L' F' D2
25.175 U L2 U F2 D2 R2 L2 D L2 U2 B' L2 D2 F' R' B' U' B R2 L2 U'
1-> 23.718 F2 D2 F2 R2 D L2 D2 F2 D L2 U B U B F' D2 R D F R D'


----------



## mafergut (Jan 8, 2016)

moralsh said:


> Is anybody around here interested in a 2 day comp in Madrid with all events and decent cutoffs?
> 
> We're organizing Cubéate (Cube yourself) Weekend 2016 in Madrid on Feb 27-28, is the same venue as last year's MAD Cube weekend, which was awesome.
> 
> ...



I would love to go but I'm afraid I'll have other priorities, as always. Will check if I can make it at least for 1 day, though. Thanks for sharing.


----------



## Douf (Jan 8, 2016)

Hi Marcel,

Love Holland! Been many times. I'm 36 and have just started cubing in the past month. I'm the same. Can do a sub-2:00 minute solve but i want to get under a minute, and maybe see what I can do from there. Also trying to work at F2L right now.

Let us know how you are progressing and if you've discovered anything that can help us whose hands don't work the same as some of these insanely fast teenagers - and lord knows my brain doesn't either!


----------



## mafergut (Jan 8, 2016)

muchacho said:


> So I register for my first comp, and 23 solves later I've beaten my mo3 2 times, my ao5, and my ao12 4 solves in a row. That's a good sign
> 
> Mo3: 20.731 (was 22.153)
> Ao5: 21.865 (was 22.154)
> Ao12: 24.017 (was 24.935)



Congrats! And also, I'm envious that you will go to a comp!

Also, I had never been very consistent on my solves. My PB Ao5 of 15.58, for example, has a 19.57 as worst (discarded) time and even a counting low 18. So I have been tracking the best worst time in my Ao5 and Ao12. Up to now, my best worst in an Ao5 was an 18.14 and I just have one fully sub-20 Ao12 on record. Yesterday I was solving again, after 6 months of changing mains, with my good old YJ Chilong, which was my main for almost a whole year. And this happens:

(16.84), 17.04, 17.51, 16.86, (17.51) = 17.13

Today, again with my Chilong, while warming up for the weekly competition 3x3 scrambles, this happens:

(17.37), 17.89, (17.90), 17.59, 17.37 = 17.62

I also had a strike of like 40 solves with just 4 or 5 sup-20 solves scattered in between.

So, should I stick to my Chilong and forget about all the supposedly great new 3x3s I own? (Yueying, Hualong, Meiying, Tanglong, ...)


----------



## MarcelP (Jan 8, 2016)

J


Douf said:


> Hi Marcel,
> 
> Love Holland! Been many times. I'm 36 and have just started cubing in the past month. I'm the same. Can do a sub-2:00 minute solve but i want to get under a minute, and maybe see what I can do from there. Also trying to work at F2L right now.
> 
> Let us know how you are progressing and if you've discovered anything that can help us whose hands don't work the same as some of these insanely fast teenagers - and lord knows my brain doesn't either!



Thanks... I am fairly sub 1 by now


----------



## Jason Green (Jan 8, 2016)

Douf said:


> Hi Marcel,
> 
> Love Holland! Been many times. I'm 36 and have just started cubing in the past month. I'm the same. Can do a sub-2:00 minute solve but i want to get under a minute, and maybe see what I can do from there. Also trying to work at F2L right now.
> 
> Let us know how you are progressing and if you've discovered anything that can help us whose hands don't work the same as some of these insanely fast teenagers - and lord knows my brain doesn't either!


 Yes Marcel averages well under 20 seconds now, close to 16 or 17? I got into speed cubing just around July and have come from where you are too about 26-27 seconds. This is definitely a good thread to hang out in so welcome!


----------



## Douf (Jan 8, 2016)

Wow I guess I should look at the date of the post before I respond. Well congratulations to you guys, your progress is amazing. The chase is on! hah

What cubes are your mains?


----------



## mafergut (Jan 8, 2016)

Douf said:


> Wow I guess I should look at the date of the post before I respond. Well congratulations to you guys, your progress is amazing. The chase is on! hah
> 
> What cubes are your mains?



I have been changing during the last 6 months between YJ Chilong, Moyu Huanying, Congs Yueying, Moyu Hualong, Congs Meiying, Moyu Tanglong. Before that I also used a Moyu Aolong. I have tried other cubes but none of them I have considered as my main (Gans 357, Yuxin 3x3, etc.).


----------



## MarcelP (Jan 9, 2016)

Jason Green said:


> Yes Marcel averages well under 20 seconds now, close to 16 or 17?



Last big average I did was 250 solves.. and it was sub 19. But just barely.  I have had one sub 18 Ao100. 



Douf said:


> Wow I guess I should look at the date of the post before I respond. Well congratulations to you guys, your progress is amazing. The chase is on! hah
> 
> What cubes are your mains?



I adore the Gans 356 with corner mod. (file down the sharp points on corners.) Gans is comming out with a new version.. Can't wait.


----------



## JanW (Jan 9, 2016)

I haven't had much time for cubing in the last few weeks, which unfortunately shows in a lack of progress. As expected. I was hoping to be sub-30 by now, but that doesn't happen without practice. I will try my best to get there, but due to some extra projects that came up, it will probably take me a while.


Douf said:


> What cubes are your mains?


I mainly use a stickerless Weilong v2. I'm trying my best to get used to the my gray TangLong, but still have some problems with recognition on that one, because of the gray background. It has gotten a lot better since I first tried the cube and I already average about same times as on the Weilong, but my eyes get tired quite fast. I also now have a black TangLong, but it isn't anywhere remotely as good as the gray one. Feels like a completely different cube. I tried lubing and tensioning it, but I cannot make it feel at all the same as the gray one. I bought the TangLongs from different stores, the gray one came lubed while the black one was completely dry. I'm guessing the gray one was lubed with some much better quality lube than the one I have, which is the reason for this big difference.


----------



## muchacho (Jan 10, 2016)

18.998 L2 U2 B2 F2 L2 D2 F2 D' F2 R2 D' B R B' F U2 L2 U' F2 U' L' U'

After I solve a cube I can't remember exactly what I did, but with this one it was veeery easy to retrace (is retrace the correct word?):

x y // inspection
U M' Uw U L U' L' // FB (7)
M2 U' R2 U' M' R U' R' U' L' B' L // SB (12)
F R U R' U' F' // CMLL (6)
U' M U M' U' M' U2 M' U M2 U' M' U2 M2 U2 M' // Finish (16)

41 moves (STM)

https://alg.cubing.net/?setup=L2_U2...
U-_M_U_M-_U-_M-_U2_M-_U_M2_U-_M-_U2_M2_U2_M-


----------



## h2f (Jan 10, 2016)

Nice solution. Loooks like optimal LSE.


----------



## mark49152 (Jan 10, 2016)

Been doing 6x6 recently, since I really enjoyed my focus on 5x5 leading up to the WTC comp. Got down to 6:39 ao12, and then... BOOM. AoShi meltdown. Pieces everywhere. That's the end of 6x6 for me.

In other news, I haven't been doing so much BLD recently but am delighted to see that the Exeter comp in April will have 4BLD and 5BLD. Will definitely be practising those.

Any oldies doing Square-1?


----------



## h2f (Jan 10, 2016)

I'm going to learn sq-1 today or tomorrow when I got a day off (at the moment I'm in job). But I will start with beginners method. I wanted to show a sq to my friends and had to solve it. I found it intresting and quite easy. 

And I know what you mean with Aoshi My Aochuang had do it the same though it has much less pieces. I have to buy yuxin.


----------



## muchacho (Jan 10, 2016)

Quite easy? I have a sq-1 but I was too afraid of it until now, what's the beginner method? is there a good youtube tutorial?


----------



## MarcelP (Jan 10, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> Any oldies doing Square-1?



I wish I knew how to solve the damn thing  I have the new Mo Fang Ge Square-1 and only know how to make the cubic shape. Everything after that involves learning Sq-1 algs which I do not like.


----------



## Lid (Jan 10, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> Any oldies doing Square-1?


I do it almost as much as 3x3, my best a12 is 17.635, but I have never gotten a god result at comp, always seem to be two bad solves every time 
I know full of "everything", Shape, CO, EO, CP, EP + some other usefull algs.


----------



## mark49152 (Jan 10, 2016)

h2f said:


> And I know what you mean with Aoshi My Aochuang had do it the same though it has much less pieces. I have to buy yuxin.


Yeah at least the AoChuang isn't too hard to put back together, and with good tension and lube and more accurate turning I rarely have problems with it now - and I love the feel, it's a great cube. The AoShi though... that thing is a horror. All those nasty internals. I did eventually get it back together this morning but then popped a piece 10 mins later. I have ordered some thinner lube so I can tighten it without killing it.

I'm not going to compete in 6x6 until I'm averaging sub-6 at home and have had at least one sub-5 single.

Sq1 seems to be getter more popular now there's a decent cube and I quite fancy having a go at it. Any recommendations for method or tutorial?


----------



## h2f (Jan 10, 2016)

My aochuang is now broken - I need a pieces or buy new. One of polish youtubers just made a tutorial (only 3 algs) and theres a page where there are few algs. I forgot about Lid's page which is very good resource to sq-1.


----------



## mark49152 (Jan 10, 2016)

I didn't notice Lid's link, I'll take a look.


----------



## APdRF (Jan 10, 2016)

For the spanish readers here, I made a tutorial on how to solve a Sq-1 the easy way, with only 1 algorithm + parity: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oVkDa41JCjo


----------



## muchacho (Jan 10, 2016)

Thanks, it may be the easiest method, but it doesn't look that easy... I'll try to solve it... once.


----------



## APdRF (Jan 10, 2016)

It's easy when you understand how it works. Be patient and you'll see  Good luck!


----------



## Lid (Jan 10, 2016)

For more Square-1 help check out the "The "Square-1 Help / Alg Sharing" thread"


----------



## Selkie (Jan 10, 2016)

Hi all and a Happy New Year to you. Been really busy with work recently. Still trying to get an Ao12 Sub 15 on film. Keep failing. Here is a 15.87 Ao12 from earlier today though...


----------



## mafergut (Jan 10, 2016)

APdRF said:


> For the spanish readers here, I made a tutorial on how to solve a Sq-1 the easy way, with only 1 algorithm + parity: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oVkDa41JCjo



Waiting for my new QiYi SQ-1 to arrive in the mail and I'll go re-watch your tutorial for sure!


----------



## newtonbase (Jan 10, 2016)

My Sq-1 is abysmal. I got as far as getting it to cube shape using a tutorial then put it away still unsolved. I may go back one day but there's plenty of stuff to practice that I actually like. 

I was in a hotel with the wife overnight but woke too early so hid in the bathroom and went through Mark's Advanced M2 thread again. I've now got a decent understanding of using FU as buffer where that sticker is in a pair. It saves a lot of moves when the setups are simple. I'll make that the last new thing I learn before Manchester.


----------



## Jason Green (Jan 10, 2016)

Selkie said:


> Hi all and a Happy New Year to you. Been really busy with work recently. Still trying to get an Ao12 Sub 15 on film. Keep failing. Here is a 15.87 Ao12 from earlier today though...
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZ7lGho9_m8


Nice job! I watched the whole thing, I usually don't watch an entire ao12. 

Do you always do blue cross? Which cube is that again?


----------



## Rastinha (Jan 11, 2016)

Hi everyone, merry christmas and happy new year! I haven't been around for a bit, although I have been cubing. Cool to see you all making progress still and a few new faces (names)  

I am still hovering around the 29.xx-33.xx ao5 and 31-35 ao12-100 for 3x3. That's mainly because I got a pyraminx and a 4x4 for christmas from my partner, and just before christmas I had decided to learn 3BLD, full PLL and Ortega for 2x2, so in the past few weeks in the snippets of downtime between doing holiday stuff with the family, I have learned a ton of new algorithms, and have gotten better at 2x2, pyra and 4x4, but haven't had time to get fast enough and recognition and execution of full PLL, haha.

I wanted to learn some new things because I know I won't have any chance of placing very well the next time a competition comes up, so I wanted to be able to enter as many events as possible so I can get used to the nerves instead. Ordered a 5x5 this week, wanted a YuXin but it was too expensive to get by itself from overseas so had to settle for a Cyclone Boys.

Sq-1 will be next on the list!

Cool to hear you're going to a competition Jason! Good luck


----------



## Selkie (Jan 11, 2016)

Jason Green said:


> Nice job! I watched the whole thing, I usually don't watch an entire ao12.
> 
> Do you always do blue cross? Which cube is that again?



Hi Jason,

I was originally blue/green opposite neutral but after keep favouring blue over green I suppose I do a green cross once every 100 to 200 solves. Should really concentrate on trying to get back to opposite neutral as I guess I miss a lot of very good green crosses.

I thought it was my Moya Hualong but as it turns out it was actially a Moyu Aolong v2


----------



## h2f (Jan 11, 2016)

I just learnt how to solve sq-1. I mean, I can do it without looking at list of algs. There's only one awkward parity algs. Other 2 or 3 are very intuitive. The same with making a square shape.


----------



## newtonbase (Jan 11, 2016)

It's always good to keep busy at a competition. I've entered FMC at Manchester but I've never even tried it at home. 

It's a shame you couldn't get the Yuxin as it's a great cube. I'm sure you'll pick up 5x5 without any problem.


----------



## muchacho (Jan 11, 2016)

Yesterday I "learned" skewb (Sarah's beginners) because learning sq-1 was not an option now, if I can get it below 30 seconds I'll use skewb in my first competition to keep me busy, maybe also FMC if comp schedule is fine.


----------



## mark49152 (Jan 11, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> It's always good to keep busy at a competition. I've entered FMC at Manchester but I've never even tried it at home.


Yeah I was tempted to do the same, but.... 9am start


----------



## mafergut (Jan 11, 2016)

muchacho said:


> Yesterday I "learned" skewb (Sarah's beginners) because learning sq-1 was not an option now, if I can get it below 30 seconds I'll use skewb in my first competition to keep me busy, maybe also FMC if comp schedule is fine.



I think with Sarah's beginners and a bit of practice you can manage to do that. You will also need to learn how to execute the sledge well. You have a nice tutorial by APdRF1 which teaches how to make it (and explains Sarah's begginers as well). Maybe you have already learned from this tutorial


----------



## h2f (Jan 11, 2016)

Sarah advanced is much better and it's not advanced at all. There's still only hedge and sledge.


----------



## Logiqx (Jan 11, 2016)

Rastinha said:


> I am still hovering around the 29.xx-33.xx ao5 and 31-35 ao12-100 for 3x3. That's mainly because I got a pyraminx and a 4x4 for christmas from my partner, and just before christmas I had decided to learn 3BLD, full PLL and Ortega for 2x2, so in the past few weeks in the snippets of downtime between doing holiday stuff with the family, I have learned a ton of new algorithms, and have gotten better at 2x2, pyra and 4x4, but haven't had time to get fast enough and recognition and execution of full PLL, haha.



Welcome back and great to hear you are branching out into other events. Welcome to the Pyra club.. not many of the regulars on this thread are fans. 

I'm turning into a bit of a lurker here but I am getting to practice 3x3 on the train to / from work (slow turning) and yesterday I did my first timed session in a month. It looks like the practice is having some effect as I knocked 0.6s off my PBs for Ao5 and Ao12.

Practicing in public may also help my competition times because I'm becoming less bothered by people watching my solves. I'm using my Gans 356 because it's the quietest cube that I own and I can keep the noise down to almost zero.


----------



## muchacho (Jan 11, 2016)

mafergut said:


> I think with Sarah's beginners and a bit of practice you can manage to do that. You will also need to learn how to execute the sledge well. You have a nice tutorial by APdRF1 which teaches how to make it (and explains Sarah's begginers as well). Maybe you have already learned from this tutorial



I learnt from Sarah's video. I see that apdrf1 also has a tutorial on the intermediate variant, if it's not difficult I'll try to learn it from him.

For now best ao12 is 52 seconds.


----------



## muchacho (Jan 11, 2016)

Logiqx said:


> Welcome to the Pyra club.. not many of the regulars on this thread are fans.


I'll learn Pyra, I like this strange looking/turning puzzles.


----------



## newtonbase (Jan 11, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> Yeah I was tempted to do the same, but.... 9am start



There's a good chance I won't make it as I have a 2.5 hour drive to get there. Depends if the wife will let me leave early.


----------



## APdRF (Jan 11, 2016)

muchacho said:


> I learnt from Sarah's video. I see that apdrf1 also has a tutorial on the intermediate variant, if it's not difficult I'll try to learn it from him.
> 
> For now best ao12 is 52 seconds.



It's not difficult at all, you only have to learn to execute the hedge (inverse of sledge) and then learn the order in which you execute them to solve the few cases of CO + Opossite center


----------



## mafergut (Jan 11, 2016)

h2f said:


> Sarah advanced is much better and it's not advanced at all. There's still only hedge and sledge.



I think you meant intermediate. Advance seems to have lots and lots of cases.


----------



## muchacho (Jan 11, 2016)

ok, it doesn't look that complicated and the tutorial is good, but I'll stick to the beginners for now.



mafergut said:


> I think you meant intermediate. Advance seems to have lots and lots of cases.



Only 134


----------



## mafergut (Jan 11, 2016)

muchacho said:


> Only 134



Oh, that's even a bit less than full CLL/EG for 2x2. I thought it was much more!


----------



## h2f (Jan 11, 2016)

mafergut said:


> I think you meant intermediate. Advance seems to have lots and lots of cases.



You're right.  I've never learnt beginners method. But I don't solve skewb.


----------



## Rastinha (Jan 11, 2016)

Logiqx said:


> Practicing in public may also help my competition times because I'm becoming less bothered by people watching my solves. I'm using my Gans 356 because it's the quietest cube that I own and I can keep the noise down to almost zero.



I often practice in public too, when I'm waiting for things, haha. I'm fine with people passively watching me solve, getting around 30s, but as soon as someone says "Go, I'll time you!" I get all flustered and it takes me like 45 seconds! So I just need to go fumble through a competition once I think to get used to it 

Yeah I have been lurking, have been reading quite a bit but not posting. Will try to do more of that!


----------



## mafergut (Jan 11, 2016)

Rastinha said:


> I often practice in public too, when I'm waiting for things, haha. I'm fine with people passively watching me solve, getting around 30s, but as soon as someone says "Go, I'll time you!" I get all flustered and it takes me like 45 seconds! So I just need to go fumble through a competition once I think to get used to it
> 
> Yeah I have been lurking, have been reading quite a bit but not posting. Will try to do more of that!



I can totally relate to that part about getting flustered and spoiling the solve


----------



## HowSuneIsNow (Jan 11, 2016)

Rastinha said:


> I often practice in public too, when I'm waiting for things, haha. I'm fine with people passively watching me solve, getting around 30s, but as soon as someone says "Go, I'll time you!" I get all flustered and it takes me like 45 seconds!



I cube a lot on public transit. I'm fine with people watching me, talking to me, and asking me questions. I'm used to people talking abotu me while I'm cubing. What happened to me last night I was not cool with. I got ona late night sunday bus and sat in the back. Some guy was loudly having a phone conversation and eventiually started talking about me loudly to some unknown person. "THIS GUY ON THE BUS, HE'S USING ONE OF THOSE, WHAT DO YOU CALL IT? IT'S A CUBE WITH ALL THESE COLORS? HE'S DOING THAT! I THINK IT'S CALLED A FLICKY CUBE! HE'S DOING THE FLICKY CUBE AND HE'S REAL FAST!" for god sake's man, keep your conversation quite and talk about me behind my back like a decent human being. then this older lady comes on the bus and starts giving him this odd look and he starts talking about her. and then she's really giving him a dirty look. Then he starts talking to her. He asks her "HEY LADY ARE YOU ON DRUGS!?!?!?!" silence "LADY ARE YOU ON DRUGS!?!!??!" She explains that she was trying to figure out if he was on the phone or talking to himself. Then I got off.


----------



## newtonbase (Jan 11, 2016)

AO12 PB of 32.74 while chatting to colleagues in the kitchen at work today. There's a lot to be said for being relaxed.


----------



## Rastinha (Jan 12, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> AO12 PB of 32.74 while chatting to colleagues in the kitchen at work today. There's a lot to be said for being relaxed.



Nice one newtonbase, how long have you been cubing? I'm trying to catch up with and remind myself of who is who from before and who has come along in my absence  We are in similar places with 3x3 I think, I need to work on F2L a ton. Are you using CFOP? 1 or 2 look OLL and PLL?


----------



## newtonbase (Jan 12, 2016)

Rastinha said:


> Nice one newtonbase, how long have you been cubing? I'm trying to catch up with and remind myself of who is who from before and who has come along in my absence  We are in similar places with 3x3 I think, I need to work on F2L a ton. Are you using CFOP? 1 or 2 look OLL and PLL?



I've been cubing for 2 years. Parenthood has restricted my practice time unfortunately but I'm trying to make better use of the time I have recently. I do use CFOP. I'm 3 G perms off full PLL. I've just counted and I only know 16 OLLs that I can use in anger. I love 3BLD but have failed in competition so far. My WCA profile will show you pretty much everything else I solve and my current real world times are the same as those other than 3x3.


----------



## muchacho (Jan 12, 2016)

27.90 ao12 on skewb using APdRF's fingertricks, good enough for now.


----------



## mafergut (Jan 12, 2016)

muchacho said:


> 27.90 ao12 on skewb using APdRF's fingertricks, good enough for now.



So, mission accomplished and just in a couple of days and with 2 extra seconds below your target of sub-30. GJ! Makes me want to practice skewb 
Did you learn the specific algs for H and Z center permutation? I just do a U twice for those cases.


----------



## muchacho (Jan 12, 2016)

I do the same 

Skewb seems fun and easy, probably in the next weeks I'll end learning how to execute the hedge and some of the cases of the intermediate variant, but for now practicing to build the first layer would probably be better to improve my times.


----------



## Rastinha (Jan 12, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> I've been cubing for 2 years. Parenthood has restricted my practice time unfortunately but I'm trying to make better use of the time I have recently. I do use CFOP. I'm 3 G perms off full PLL. I've just counted and I only know 16 OLLs that I can use in anger. I love 3BLD but have failed in competition so far. My WCA profile will show you pretty much everything else I solve and my current real world times are the same as those other than 3x3.


Those G perms right? They were so easy to memorize for me, and I was wondering what all the fuss was about until I finished memorizing pll and started trying to get back to speed. I'm so slow at recognition and execution for them!

I'm hoping to make it to the next competition here so then, assuming I complete some things, I'll have some official times [emoji4] 

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk


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## Selkie (Jan 12, 2016)

The process of learning and then recalling full OLL and full PLL can be challenging but when I undertook it 5 years ago I did 1-2 algs a day and they ahve all stuck with regular practice. There is a school of thought that learning more than that a day is optimal but I am not convinced. I have probably replaced about 50% of them over the years for ones that are more optimal for me.

Three years without a comp and just noticed one in Exeter, Devon (UK) in May. Right on my doorstep so that is a definite for me. Any other other, older cubing brethren going?


----------



## newtonbase (Jan 12, 2016)

Rastinha said:


> Those G perms right? They were so easy to memorize for me, and I was wondering what all the fuss was about until I finished memorizing pll and started trying to get back to speed. I'm so slow at recognition and execution for them!



Yes. I usually recognise the one I know just as I'm starting the A perm for 2 look.


----------



## mafergut (Jan 12, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> Yes. I usually recognise the one I know just as I'm starting the A perm for 2 look.



G-perms is probably the only case where I learned more than 1 or 2 PLLs in the same day. In fact I learned the 4 of them at the same time as they are all related (Ga/Gb are the reverse of one another and the same for Gc/Gd... or something like that) and the two groups are front/back mirrors of one another. So, in one G the turns go clockwise then anticlockwise, in the other one the opposite, and the other two are the 1st ones but executed backwards. I just learned an easy mnemonic to know which one is which, until they were well stored in muscle memory.



muchacho said:


> I do the same
> 
> Skewb seems fun and easy, probably in the next weeks I'll end learning how to execute the hedge and some of the cases of the intermediate variant, but for now practicing to build the first layer would probably be better to improve my times.



I couldn't resist and had to try! First ever timed skewb solves (the 16.22 was a "top corners skip" followed by a U):

Generated By csTimer on 2016-1-12
avg of 5: 25.59

Time List:
1. (38.20) R B R B L U' B L' 
2. 28.16 B' U B U' B L' R U' R 
3. 25.43 B U R' L' U' R U' R B 
4. (16.22) U R' B' R' U' B R U' L' 
5. 23.18 U L' B U B' U R B U'


----------



## mark49152 (Jan 12, 2016)

Selkie said:


> Three years without a comp and just noticed one in Exeter, Devon (UK) in May. Right on my doorstep so that is a definite for me. Any other other, older cubing brethren going?


Probably - its a long way for me but at the moment I'm determined to get to every UK comp if at all possible.


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## h2f (Jan 12, 2016)

I dont remeber when I did ao5 in skewb. Lets try:

AO 5: 25.04

Time List:
(42.50), 31.09, (11.19), 19.42, 24.62


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## muchacho (Jan 12, 2016)

I suppose it's impossible to forget Sarah's beginners method even if you don't practice, that's nice.

What method do you use?


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## Selkie (Jan 12, 2016)

I too take as much advantage of cubing on long trips. I always cube when on the train but this is only to and from London when I am seeing clients there but also on planes. Not only is it s great opportunity to get some practice in but like other it gets you used to solving in front of people. I also cube in the canteen at work though I work from home 4 days a week. Its all extra practice.



mark49152 said:


> Probably - its a long way for me but at the moment I'm determined to get to every UK comp if at all possible.



Well if you do would be great to meet


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## h2f (Jan 12, 2016)

muchacho said:


> I suppose it's impossible to forget Sarah's beginners method even if you don't practice, that's nice.
> 
> What method do you use?



Sarah's intermidiate but I dont know how to solve every case on stage two (opposite layer) so I do whatever.  My son knows it better and he's sub-8 with it.


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## mafergut (Jan 12, 2016)

h2f said:


> Sarah's intermidiate but I dont know how to solve every case on stage two (opposite layer) so I do whatever.  My son knows it better and he's sub-8 with it.



So, do you think, let's say... sub-15 is easily achievable with beginners and maybe a bit of intermediate? I would be more than fine with that.


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## h2f (Jan 12, 2016)

I think it's not worth learing begginer because intermediate has that case in. Polish cuber Piotr Tokarski is sub-5 with intermediate. My son - sub-8 with knowing only hedge and sledge and not knowing H and Z but knowing every case for opposite layer. So I think it's possible.


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## mafergut (Jan 12, 2016)

h2f said:


> I think it's not worth learing begginer because intermediate has that case in. Polish cuber Piotr Tokarski is sub-5 with intermediate. My son - sub-8 with knowing only hedge and sledge and not knowing H and Z but knowing every case for opposite layer. So I think it's possible.



Well, beginners I already know, so a bit late to go directly to intermediate  It was just so easy. I will check intermediate this weekend to see how many things are needed to learn and will work from there. But for now, I think I'll just start timing some beginners solves for the Weekly Comp and things like that.


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## h2f (Jan 12, 2016)

I think you will be surpriese how intermediate easy is. I'll do the same - do some sessions and learn whole intermediate. And start doing it to weekly comp.


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## mafergut (Jan 12, 2016)

h2f said:


> I think you will be surpriese how intermediate easy is. I'll do the same - do some sessions and learn whole intermediate. And start doing it to weekly comp.



Ok, see you there! I saw that you're up there in the top ten in WC, with results in many events and being king of BLD and FMC. GJ!!!
If you add skewb to that you'll get into top 5 next week. Maybe also pyra, Mega and SQ-1


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## h2f (Jan 12, 2016)

mafergut said:


> Ok, see you there! I saw that you're up there in the top ten in WC, with results in many events and being king of BLD and FMC. GJ!!!
> If you add skewb to that you'll get into top 5 next week. Maybe also pyra, Mega and SQ-1



 Thanks. I'm only regular in taking a part in events from 2x2 to 5x5. I found it to be a good practice. In FMC I was lucky adding extra move in building block which led to 16 moves skeleton. Usually I'm over 30. I thought about adding few events you mentioned. It's fun.  Maybe skweb is the first one because in sq my solves takes more than 3 minutes now.


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## mafergut (Jan 12, 2016)

h2f said:


> Thanks. I'm only regular in taking a part in events from 2x2 to 5x5. I found it to be a good practice. In FMC I was lucky adding extra move in building block which led to 16 moves skeleton. Usually I'm over 30. I thought about adding few events you mentioned. It's fun.  Maybe skweb is the first one because in sq my solves takes more than 3 minutes now.



I have already posted my skewb times for this weeks WC  And then I did like 20 more solves. It is a lot of fun, in fact. Got an 11.90 single, 19.80 Ao5 and 25.15 Ao12 but times vary a lot depending on the scramble. Starting to get the hang of it, like how to turn the skewb without looking between the two steps of top corners when you don't get the "pi" directly, etc. but I still have to think about how to grab the thing to execute the center perms, dang thing has to be grabbed semi-rotated and I loose track of what's up / left / down. All in all, I'm hooked


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## h2f (Jan 12, 2016)

I've made first ao50 for ages, too.  And got single best: 4.99; avg of 5: 13.41; avg of 12: and avg of 50: 18.46. It looks like finally I liked skewb.

Are going to try FMC, maybe?


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## newtonbase (Jan 12, 2016)

30.83 AO5 PB. Next solve was possibly the fastest of the lot but I hadn't started the timer. Getting closer to sub 30s.


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## mafergut (Jan 12, 2016)

h2f said:


> I've made first ao50 for ages, too.  And got single best: 4.99; avg of 5: 13.41; avg of 12: and avg of 50: 18.46. It looks like finally I liked skewb.
> 
> Are going to try FMC, maybe?



Nice times! Is there any event you are not good at?


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## h2f (Jan 12, 2016)

mafergut said:


> Nice times! Is there any event you are not good at?



 You are kind but Im not considering myslef as being good in many events. I need more practice. And you are much better than me in 2x2 and 3x3, so whos good? 

FMC is 10 points when you take a part so it's worth to do a solve though it's long.  Same big cubes. Year ago I've read the rules and when you take part in all events 2-5 including blinds and 2 cubes in multi it's 85 points.


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## Rastinha (Jan 12, 2016)

mafergut said:


> G-perms is probably the only case where I learned more than 1 or 2 PLLs in the same day. In fact I learned the 4 of them at the same time as they are all related (Ga/Gb are the reverse of one another and the same for Gc/Gd... or something like that) and the two groups are front/back mirrors of one another. So, in one G the turns go clockwise then anticlockwise, in the other one the opposite, and the other two are the 1st ones but executed backwards. I just learned an easy mnemonic to know which one is which, until they were well stored in muscle memory.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I did the same with g perms, but I have a little trouble remembering the exact directions to turn and which one is which. Just need to spend a bit more time on pll training to get them snappier and a bit more muscle memory going on.

All you folks who use csTimer on your computers, what do you do if you are cubing away from your computer? I use nano timer on Android because I'm often cubing away from my computer and want all my times readily available. Does csTimer sync somewhere?

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk


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## Jason Green (Jan 12, 2016)

Rastinha said:


> I did the same with g perms, but I have a little trouble remembering the exact directions to turn and which one is which. Just need to spend a bit more time on pll training to get them snappier and a bit more muscle memory going on.
> 
> All you folks who use csTimer on your computers, what do you do if you are cubing away from your computer? I use nano timer on Android because I'm often cubing away from my computer and want all my times readily available. Does csTimer sync somewhere?
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk


I use plusTimer on Android. It's buggy right now clearing and submitting sessions on some devices, but I like it so much I use it still. Also I think cstimer works on mobile but I never used it. 

Related question after doing some practice with my stackmat timer. When practicing with a mat what do people do for inspection time and saving solve times? I was thinking I can just start my phone for inspection, but I don't know if I would feel like adjusting each solve time manually.


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## mafergut (Jan 12, 2016)

h2f said:


> You are kind but Im not considering myslef as being good in many events. I need more practice. And you are much better than me in 2x2 and 3x3, so whos good?
> 
> FMC is 10 points when you take a part so it's worth to do a solve though it's long.  Same big cubes. Year ago I've read the rules and when you take part in all events 2-5 including blinds and 2 cubes in multi it's 85 points.



Well, I almost exclusively practise 2x2 and 3x3 so I better get some decent times at those but I don't know how to solve anything blind and I'm terribly bad at big cubes, etc. How long have you been cubing? I started learning CFOP in Aug 2013 so it's been almost 2 and a half years and I don't think I have much room for improvement at 3x3 already  but that doesn't mean I won't keep trying. And, for that, this forum is truly an inspiration thanks to you all guys here.


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## h2f (Jan 12, 2016)

Yeah, the forum and all guys in here are an ispiration. I'm in speedcubing almost as long as you - I've started in June 2013 but I've learnt 3x3 in 1999 and 4x4 in 2008.


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## newtonbase (Jan 12, 2016)

My capacity to screw up in 2x2 knows no bounds. "Quick" AO12 before bed produced more 40+ solves than a day of 3x3. I got a PB sub 8 single early on then went rapidly downhill. 

Any tips on practicing first face for Ortega?


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## Rastinha (Jan 13, 2016)

Just got my 5x5 in the mail, what's the equivalent easy access but effective speed method for 5x5? I use cfop for 3x3 and yau for 4x4. I just scrambled it and solved it intuitively yau style up until the last 2 edges, and now I'll have to look up an algorithm to get past there.

On that note, can anyone tell me whether the images in this guide are front view or side view? Don't want to mess up the x/x' bit and mess up my almost reduced cube, haha 







Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk


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## h2f (Jan 13, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> Any tips on practicing first face for Ortega?



Try to predict wheter you got a layer, a bar or adjacent flip on the bottom leyer.

@Rastinha - they are from the top, so to execute them you have them in the front (x' move, 5 of them). I hope you know what I mean. But for last 2 edges it's enough to know how to make a last one tredge and how to do parity.


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## newtonbase (Jan 13, 2016)

Pretty sure that's the U face.

Edit: as they say in these parts - ninja'd.


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## mafergut (Jan 13, 2016)

Jason Green said:


> I use plusTimer on Android. It's buggy right now clearing and submitting sessions on some devices, but I like it so much I use it still. Also I think cstimer works on mobile but I never used it.
> 
> Related question after doing some practice with my stackmat timer. When practicing with a mat what do people do for inspection time and saving solve times? I was thinking I can just start my phone for inspection, but I don't know if I would feel like adjusting each solve time manually.



If you have got a stackmat pro timer you can connect it to csTimer and other cube timers via the port for external display with an audio cable and it will automatically signal the start and stop to csTimer so you don't have to input the times and you can also use the inspection time feature from csTimer at the same time, I guess. But I have not tested it, as I don't have a Stackmat.


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## MarcelP (Jan 13, 2016)

My big cubesession during the Christmas holidays. I should be practicing againg because this was not so bad after long time without practice.


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## Jason Green (Jan 13, 2016)

mafergut said:


> If you have got a stackmat pro timer you can connect it to csTimer and other cube timers via the port for external display with an audio cable and it will automatically signal the start and stop to csTimer so you don't have to input the times and you can also use the inspection time feature from csTimer at the same time, I guess. But I have not tested it, as I don't have a Stackmat.


That would be awesome then, and it is a pro. I guess just audio to USB? I'll Google it.


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## muchacho (Jan 13, 2016)

MarcelP said:


> My big cubesession during the Christmas holidays. I should be practicing againg because this was not so bad after long time without practice.
> View attachment 5807


All in one session? I've done like 2 sessions of more than 100 solves, and at the end of them my hands and my head were tired and my times sucked.


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## mafergut (Jan 13, 2016)

Jason Green said:


> That would be awesome then, and it is a pro. I guess just audio to USB? I'll Google it.



just a mini-jack male to male audio cable from timer to the microphone input in your PC. I'm waiting to have proof that it also works with the new Yuxin timer before I decide which one to buy, as here in spain the Stackmat Pro costs like 50 € (the pack with timer, gen3 mat and carrying bag) + shipping.


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## newtonbase (Jan 13, 2016)

29.88s AO5 PB. First sub 30s.


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## mafergut (Jan 13, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> 29.88s AO5 PB. First sub 30s.



Nice!!!! Keep the good job. Are you in the race to sub30 thread?


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## newtonbase (Jan 13, 2016)

mafergut said:


> Nice!!!! Keep the good job. Are you in the race to sub30 thread?



I've joined it twice but not kept up as I can't often find time to do an undisturbed AO12. Also it was embarrassing being the slowest person there even though others were doing it OH or with new methods.


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## mafergut (Jan 13, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> I've joined it twice but not kept up as I can't often find time to do an undisturbed AO12. Also it was embarrassing being the slowest person there even though others were doing it OH or with new methods.



No need to feel embarrassed. I have been posting a lot in the main Accomplishments thread and my times are usually double the average times of all the teens that post there. Like 3x3 averages around 20 seconds when most people are around or below 10 seconds (or how about my 7 minute Megaminx times, compared with lots of people who are sub 1 minute on that same thread). I still can remember when I first got a sub minute, and a sub 40 and so on and, for me, it was an achievement. Don't let that those feelings of embarrasment stop you from participating, enjoying cubing or whatever. Or else only Feliks would keep on speedcubing )

EDIT: I have checked and your official 4x4 times are faster than most my solves at home


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## muchacho (Jan 13, 2016)

Yeah, I was the slowest by far when I joined the race to sub-30, I started with more than 50 seconds and it took me more than 15 weeks to graduate, that doesn't matter, it helped me to push myself (but it won't help you much if the problem is that you don't have time to cube).


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## RicardoRix (Jan 13, 2016)

I stopped racing in the sub-30 thread, because I knew I'd never achieve that goal, and still am not sub-30. I think I need to stop racing and start learning, like 1 look OLL, only problem is that I just learned BLD and got a new Sq-1 that I can't put down.

I have a question, I bought a thunderclap 3x3 over xmas, and it just exploded in my hands, seems like one of the screws has just broke \ sheared off. 
Is it a good idea to try the pieces on a different core of one of the cubes I don't use much, or is it easy to get a different screw that would fit? I've tried emailing thecubicle.us but I can't see them sending out just a single replacement screw.


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## newtonbase (Jan 13, 2016)

mafergut said:


> EDIT: I have checked and your official 4x4 times are faster than most my solves at home



They are 2 of my fastest solves. I still don't have a sub 2. Better start practicing for Manchester.


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## Selkie (Jan 13, 2016)

MarcelP said:


> My big cubesession during the Christmas holidays. I should be practicing againg because this was not so bad after long time without practice.
> View attachment 5807



Awesome long session there Marcel. I've always found breaks great at beating plateau



newtonbase said:


> I've joined it twice but not kept up as I can't often find time to do an undisturbed AO12. Also it was embarrassing being the slowest person there even though others were doing it OH or with new methods.



Never, ever feel embarrased at feeling you are too slow. I remember being in the race to sub 30 5 years ago when I was averaging over a minute. If there are other reasons not to join like finding the time then understandable. It can feel a little odd competing with the younger solvers but you soon get used to it. 

------------------

As some of you are aware have been trying in vein to get a sub 14s Ao5 and sub 15s Ao12 on film. Still not got there but here is a video of a 14.28 Ao5 from yesterday I posted in the video section. Practice currently seems to involve lots of very fast and then lots of slow solves. Rinse and repeat


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## h2f (Jan 13, 2016)

@Marcel - Nice times.


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## h2f (Jan 13, 2016)

RicardoRix said:


> I have a question, I bought a thunderclap 3x3 over xmas, and it just exploded in my hands, seems like one of the screws has just broke \ sheared off.
> Is it a good idea to try the pieces on a different core of one of the cubes I don't use much, or is it easy to get a different screw that would fit? I've tried emailing thecubicle.us but I can't see them sending out just a single replacement screw.



I think replacement of the core is a good idea. It might work but you will know it when you try.


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## mafergut (Jan 13, 2016)

RicardoRix said:


> I stopped racing in the sub-30 thread, because I knew I'd never achieve that goal, and still am not sub-30. I think I need to stop racing and start learning, like 1 look OLL, only problem is that I just learned BLD and got a new Sq-1 that I can't put down.
> 
> I have a question, I bought a thunderclap 3x3 over xmas, and it just exploded in my hands, seems like one of the screws has just broke \ sheared off.
> Is it a good idea to try the pieces on a different core of one of the cubes I don't use much, or is it easy to get a different screw that would fit? I've tried emailing thecubicle.us but I can't see them sending out just a single replacement screw.



I agree with the part about learning. The race should be just the timed solves where you try check if your learning has made you progress. I have been just spamming timed solves for too long and I did'nt improve much. But one can do both 

Regarding the screw, something similar happened to me (TheCubicle sent me a Guanlong with a missing spring) and I couldn't make them send me a replacement. In my next purchase I reminded them of that and they sent a spare spring for free but I had to make a second purchase and I have now a full set of moyu screws and springs I don't need. Not sure if the core is similar to those of Moyu, Dayan, etc. but you can always compare and try it out.



newtonbase said:


> They are 2 of my fastest solves. I still don't have a sub 2. Better start practicing for Manchester.



At least you can go to competitions! I got a 1:57 the other day but most my solves are around or sup 2:30. I use Yau and I just can't get decent edge pairing either with 6-2 or 3-2-3 except when lucky and I have all sorts of problems with 3x3 algs on 4x4, including OLL recognition and execution issues and also failures detecting PLL parity in some PLL cases like G-perms, etc., so I do the G, realize that I have parity, do parity alg, do U-perm Not to talk about 5x5, where I can't even do centers in less than... an eternity


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## newtonbase (Jan 13, 2016)

I know what you mean about recognition. At my 1st comp the judge politely informed me that I hadn't had parity just after I "solved" it.


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## Logiqx (Jan 13, 2016)

MarcelP said:


> My big cubesession during the Christmas holidays. I should be practicing againg because this was not so bad after long time without practice.
> View attachment 5807



Good to see you can still get some good times. 



Selkie said:


> As some of you are aware have been trying in vein to get a sub 14s Ao5 and sub 15s Ao12 on film. Still not got there but here is a video of a 14.28 Ao5 from yesterday I posted in the video section. Practice currently seems to involve lots of very fast and then lots of slow solves. Rinse and repeat



Nice solves. What do you consider to be your global average nowadays?


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## Rastinha (Jan 13, 2016)

mafergut said:


> I agree with the part about learning. The race should be just the timed solves where you try check if your learning has made you progress. I have been just spamming timed solves for too long and I did'nt improve much. But one can do both
> 
> Regarding the screw, something similar happened to me (TheCubicle sent me a Guanlong with a missing spring) and I couldn't make them send me a replacement. In my next purchase I reminded them of that and they sent a spare spring for free but I had to make a second purchase and I have now a full set of moyu screws and springs I don't need. Not sure if the core is similar to those of Moyu, Dayan, etc. but you can always compare and try it out.
> 
> ...


This, so much this. This is me haha. My PB is 2:30ish bit I've only been doing it for around a week ago I'm going ready on myself at this stage, haha. 3 mins is the cut off for 4x4 in our competitions so if I can get my averages and solves more consistently down that way then at least I can enter it!

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk


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## newtonbase (Jan 13, 2016)

After the discussions today I came home determined to crack 2mins on 4x4. So far I've found time for 2 solves. Kids and cubing don't mix well.

Edit: Managed to squeeze in a quick session and thought I'd got my sub 2 but I missed parity. I would have had time to solve it. Nano Timer now shows my PB as DNF.


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## Jason Green (Jan 14, 2016)

I got cables for the stackmat but am not having any luck. Here's a video of what I'm trying please let me know if anyone has any ideas. 

https://youtu.be/APm8GpWAO5w


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## MarcelP (Jan 14, 2016)

muchacho said:


> All in one session? I've done like 2 sessions of more than 100 solves, and at the end of them my hands and my head were tired and my times sucked.



No, I took all day.. The first 100 where in one session. Then I took a break for lunch and did another 50 - 75 or so etc. I was home alone so I enjoyed it with doing nothing but cubing.



RicardoRix said:


> I stopped racing in the sub-30 thread, because I knew I'd never achieve that goal, and still am not sub-30. I think I need to stop racing and start learning, like 1 look OLL, only problem is that I just learned BLD and got a new Sq-1 that I can't put down.
> 
> I have a question, I bought a thunderclap 3x3 over xmas, and it just exploded in my hands, seems like one of the screws has just broke \ sheared off.
> Is it a good idea to try the pieces on a different core of one of the cubes I don't use much, or is it easy to get a different screw that would fit? I've tried emailing thecubicle.us but I can't see them sending out just a single replacement screw.



I think you should continue the race to sub 30 thread. It is doable without 1 look OLL with target practice on other stuff. Become a cross expert, or look ahead ninja by practicing just that. For the Thunderclap, just replace the core and screws with one from an old cube. 



h2f said:


> @Marcel - Nice times.


Thanks 



Logiqx said:


> Good to see you can still get some good times.


Yeah, my thoughts aswell.


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## Rastinha (Jan 14, 2016)

I've had a few sub 30 averages with 4 look LL, and have full pll now but haven't gotten my speed back down yet, so as Marcel says it's totally possible. If you get the execution of those algorithms fast, then work on f2l you'll get there. I always get my sub 30s when my f2l is good because my last layer times are pretty consistent.

I need to work on f2l next too 

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk


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## muchacho (Jan 14, 2016)

Jason Green said:


> I got cables for the stackmat but am not having any luck. Here's a video of what I'm trying please let me know if anyone has any ideas.
> 
> https://youtu.be/APm8GpWAO5w



Have you tried using other browser? I read Chrome is not good for this, maybe you could try Firefox. Does it work with Prisma Puzzle Timer?

edit:
https://www.speedsolving.com/forum/...mer-released&p=1136226&viewfull=1#post1136226


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## h2f (Jan 14, 2016)

Skewb is funny and easy. I've learnt Hperm and Zperm (setup and 3 sledges) and finished ao100 (17.25) with ao12 14.11, ao5 11.42 and single 4.99. I think one may be easily sub-15 on it with Sarah's intermediate.


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## muchacho (Jan 14, 2016)

I hope one (hopefully me) can be (maybe not easily) sub-15 with beginners, I'm gonna try.


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## Selkie (Jan 14, 2016)

Logiqx said:


> Nice solves. What do you consider to be your global average nowadays?



Had my first sub 16 average of 100 just the other day but I think my global is probably closer to 16.1-16.2



mafergut said:


> At least you can go to competitions! I got a 1:57 the other day but most my solves are around or sup 2:30. I use Yau and I just can't get decent edge pairing either with 6-2 or 3-2-3 except when lucky and I have all sorts of problems with 3x3 algs on 4x4, including OLL recognition and execution issues and also failures detecting PLL parity in some PLL cases like G-perms, etc., so I do the G, realize that I have parity, do parity alg, do U-perm Not to talk about 5x5, where I can't even do centers in less than... an eternity



I suffered all of these problems on 4x4 in the early days and to be fair even now I will do PLL parity, PLL and then feel stupid when I realise I did not need the parity  But the more you see valid PLL cases the easier it gets to recognise ones that need parity.



Rastinha said:


> 3 mins is the cut off for 4x4 in our competitions so if I can get my averages and solves more consistently down that way then at least I can enter it!



Oh wow, That's a nice cut off and great that the organisers can afford to offer those cut-offs, gives more people the opportunity of doing more solves in a comp environment. Unfortunately (or in reality fortunately) there are a lot of fast cubers in UK so cut off for 4x4 is 1:30 and 2:30 for 5x5.



newtonbase said:


> Kids and cubing don't mix well.



Luckily mine are 12 and 13 so more interested in XBoxes/Tablets/Phones to interrupt cubing sessions and even at 7 when I started speed cubing never were a problem but I can see how it can make doing averages a bit problematic 



h2f said:


> Skewb is funny and easy. I've learnt Hperm and Zperm (setup and 3 sledges) and finished ao100 (17.25) with ao12 14.11, ao5 11.42 and single 4.99. I think one may be easily sub-15 on it with Sarah's intermediate.



I really need to learn skewb, last comp I attended it wasn't even an official event. To be fair I need to relearn Square-1 which I really enjoy. I have forgotton over 80% of all Sq1 algs which is disappointing when my fastest official average is sub 45  Think that one is on the agenda for the next few weeks ready for ACE 2016 in April


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## Isaac Lai (Jan 14, 2016)

Selkie said:


> Luckily mine are 12 and 13 so more interested in XBoxes/Tablets/Phones



I wouldn't exactly see this as a good thing...


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## Selkie (Jan 14, 2016)

Isaac Lai said:


> I wouldn't exactly see this as a good thing...



Indeed not. Whilst they are more interested in technology we do limit its use and encourage other forms of interest. Trust me, I have been in IT for over 25 years, I prefer interests away from that


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## muchacho (Jan 14, 2016)

muchacho said:


> I hope one (hopefully me) can be (maybe not easily) sub-15 with beginners, I'm gonna try.


Skewb best ao12: 18.067

Sub-15 can be done, sure I'll try.


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## Logiqx (Jan 14, 2016)

Selkie said:


> Think that one is on the agenda for the next few weeks ready for ACE 2016 in April



That answers two questions...

1) Will we see you at a UK competition this year?
2) Does anyone know the next UK competition after Manchester?

Unfortunately I can't make the ACE (Exeter) since it clashes with the first windsurfing event of 2016. Doh!


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## MarcelP (Jan 14, 2016)

Selkie said:


> Trust me, I have been in IT for over 25 years, I prefer interests away from that



I am also in IT for over 25 years, but I would be thrilled so see my kids take an interest in software engineering or something.. Both my kids grew up with computers and tablets and are addicted to games unfortunately.


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## mafergut (Jan 14, 2016)

Logiqx said:


> Unfortunately I can't make the ACE (Exeter) since it clashes with the first windsurfing event of 2016. Doh!



I'd love to have that problem  Not that I particularly like windsurfing but, let's say football, basketball, rallies, motorbiking or whatever... In my case I guess it would be basketball  Like: "I can't go to Spanish cubing nationals because it clashes with the NBA finals".


----------



## Logiqx (Jan 14, 2016)

mafergut said:


> I'd love to have that problem  Not that I particularly like windsurfing but, let's say football, basketball, rallies, motorbiking or whatever... In my case I guess it would be basketball  Like: "I can't go to Spanish cubing nationals because it clashes with the NBA finals".



I'll just wait and see when / where the third UK event is planned.


----------



## Selkie (Jan 14, 2016)

Logiqx said:


> Unfortunately I can't make the ACE (Exeter) since it clashes with the first windsurfing event of 2016. Doh!



To be fair really missed not attending a comp for 2 1/2 years. In the winter months my wife is usually busy doing her degree and in the summer months VW camper festivals take up a lot of weekends. Plan of action this year is at least 2 cubing comps and preferably 4. Need the motivation the meeting of other cubers gives me if I want a shot of getting sub 15 globally before my hands get too old to refuse! 



MarcelP said:


> I am also in IT for over 25 years, but I would be thrilled so see my kids take an interest in software engineering or something.. Both my kids grew up with computers and tablets and are addicted to games unfortunately.



Oh I'd love them to go into IT but sorry to say it is a subject at school that neither are at all interested in! I try and tempt them with SQL databases and C# coding but all they want from technology is popular YouTubers and the latest XBox One games 



mafergut said:


> I'd love to have that problem  Not that I particularly like windsurfing but, let's say football, basketball, rallies, motorbiking or whatever... In my case I guess it would be basketball  Like: "I can't go to Spanish cubing nationals because it clashes with the NBA finals".



LOve sporting events but sad to say I don't attend nearly as many as I would like these days.


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## h2f (Jan 14, 2016)

muchacho said:


> Skewb best ao12: 18.067
> 
> Sub-15 can be done, sure I'll try.



Nice. Sarah's beginner?


----------



## muchacho (Jan 14, 2016)

Yes, I'm not sure if I'd have time to get fast with intermediate (comp in a few weeks), and I want to first see how far can beginners get me.


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## mark49152 (Jan 14, 2016)

Logiqx said:


> I'll just wait and see when / where the third UK event is planned.


You not able to make Manchester either? That's a shame!


----------



## h2f (Jan 14, 2016)

muchacho said:


> Yes, I'm not sure if I'd have time to get fast with intermediate (comp in a few weeks), and I want to first see how far can beginners get me.



I see. Looking at your times it seems you can be sub-15 with it. What are the limits on the comp?


----------



## muchacho (Jan 14, 2016)

Don't know, but last year there were no cutoff times, still don't know the schedule so I'm not sure if I will be able to do that event.

edit:
Last year a 15 seconds average was enough to advance to the finals.


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## h2f (Jan 14, 2016)

muchacho said:


> Don't know, but last year there were no cutoff times, still don't know the schedule so I'm not sure if I will be able to do that event.
> 
> edit:
> Last year a 15 seconds average was enough to advance to the finals.



OMG. I could do this in Spain, but not in Poland.


----------



## Jason Green (Jan 14, 2016)

muchacho said:


> Have you tried using other browser? I read Chrome is not good for this, maybe you could try Firefox. Does it work with Prisma Puzzle Timer?
> 
> edit:
> https://www.speedsolving.com/forum/...mer-released&p=1136226&viewfull=1#post1136226


I did try other browsers but that link gives me some ideas to try. Thanks I'll let you know!


----------



## mafergut (Jan 14, 2016)

muchacho said:


> Yes, I'm not sure if I'd have time to get fast with intermediate (comp in a few weeks), and I want to first see how far can beginners get me.



Sure you can. How long have you been practising? A couple days to a week? I have been practising just a tiny bit these last couple of days since I read about skewb in this thread, not even 50 solves total, and today I got a nice 15.91 Ao5 ((14.54), 16.99, (26.15), 15.11, 15.63) so I'm sure with a little more practise and normal (not super easy but not terrible) scrambles you can get a sub-15 average at the comp with no problems.



Jason Green said:


> I did try other browsers but that link gives me some ideas to try. Thanks I'll let you know!



Yeah, the https link to csTimer that they gave on that thread should work just fine, for what I read there.


----------



## muchacho (Jan 14, 2016)

250-300 solves in 5 days, I'm all in.


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## Jason Green (Jan 14, 2016)

This skewb sounds intriguing now, maybe some of the kids at the contest this weekend will let me try.


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## muchacho (Jan 14, 2016)

The thing is that it's quite a different puzzle... and very easy to improve for now, which is always fun.


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## mafergut (Jan 14, 2016)

muchacho said:


> The thing is that it's quite a different puzzle... and very easy to improve for now, which is always fun.



25 more solves and I got these 
It's so much fun to break PB after PB at the beginning with a new puzzle

17.93, 13.15, 13.06, (26.15), (11.13) = *14.71 Ao5*
21.40, 15.54, 15.94, (14.17), 17.58, 18.81, 18.78, 15.33, 14.87, (24.99), 16.02, 14.88 = *16.92 Ao12*

Already feeling the need to learn specific algs for Z / H center permutations. All the sup-20 solves in there are due to that.


----------



## h2f (Jan 14, 2016)

Nice. For h perm theres alg rR which is fast and i found rzewuski use it. For z perm you can do setup and trple sledge. For me its fine while i dont have to learn new alg. I will find it on yt when im back home. 

patataj patataj patataj


----------



## Lid (Jan 14, 2016)

Meep got some good L5C (& other stuff) also for Skewb on his webpage.


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## mafergut (Jan 14, 2016)

h2f said:


> Nice. For h perm theres alg rR which is fast and i found rzewuski use it. For z perm you can do setup and trple sledge. For me its fine while i dont have to learn new alg. I will find it on yt when im back home.
> 
> patataj patataj patataj



I just realized that in Sarah's website, the method goes:
Step 1 – Solve a side
Step 2 – Solve the remaining corners
Step 3 – Solve the U center
Step 4 – Solve the remaining centers
while I learned it from APdRF1 video with steps 2 & 3 reversed, 1st solve the U center, then the remaining corners. It looks like one of the cases is a bit faster in the order that Sarah recommends, as it only needs 4 sledges, while in the other order it requires 5. How do you solve it?


----------



## muchacho (Jan 14, 2016)

Long long time ago in a thread like this one I said I wouldn't learn the intermediate variant for now... I can't resist the force, I've learned the category 1 cases.


----------



## mafergut (Jan 14, 2016)

muchacho said:


> Long long time ago in a thread like this one I said I wouldn't learn the intermediate variant for now... I can't resist the force, I've learned the category 1 cases.



What have you done? You made me check them... and learn them 
In fact the 3rd category 1 case I already knew, because, as I said, following APdRF1 video tutorial he solved the top center 1st and then, when you get the Pi, that's the alg you need.
My only problem is with the 2nd cat 1 case, as I'm still too bad at hedgeslammer... need to check for a good fingertrick.


----------



## h2f (Jan 14, 2016)

Few fingertricks I've learnt from here. I mean hedge and sledge: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a_MnXxUT3wY

And Hperm I've learnt here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z8Ux6uMIPlU

That's almost all I know.


----------



## muchacho (Jan 14, 2016)

Oscar Roth Andersen's hedge execution is almost identical:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IBOEVdN3pzc


----------



## h2f (Jan 14, 2016)

Yeah.  I do the same.


----------



## Jason Green (Jan 14, 2016)

The secure cstimer site was closer, it prompted for using my mic and went to all dashes. But it still would not respond to the timer on all three computers. Maybe I'm missing something else. On Firefox on my PC it actually went to 0.00 with the mic and I thought it was going to work, but no joy.


----------



## h2f (Jan 14, 2016)

Try not put the whole jacke into the computer input. Leave 10% or less. It worked on my laptop. Did you check the setup of mic in your preferences in Operatin System?


----------



## Jason Green (Jan 14, 2016)

h2f said:


> Try not put the whole jacke into the computer input. Leave 10% or less. It worked on my laptop. Did you check the setup of mic in your preferences in Operatin System?


I'll try that. Glad to know it's working for you. Are you on windows 7 or what? I played around with preferences in control panel, do you care to screen shot the settings that work for you?


----------



## h2f (Jan 14, 2016)

I havent used it for ages and in the mean time I've changed laptop. I haven't checked how it work with stackmat yet.

Edit: it works fine on Firefox. But I had to a little uplugged on stackmat not on computer input. OS is Windows 10.


----------



## EvilGnome6 (Jan 15, 2016)

My first sub-15!







/me does the happy dance


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## Jason Green (Jan 15, 2016)

EvilGnome6 said:


> My first sub-15!
> 
> /me does the happy dance



Awesome job!

I'll play some more with the stackmat. I wasn't sure which side you had unplugged so tried both, but not on all computers yet. My laptop only has a combined jack for mic and headset so I wonder if that acts differently than a straight mic input. I don't have access to Windows 10 yet but surely the OS would work if settings are correct.


----------



## AlphaSheep (Jan 15, 2016)

Jason Green said:


> My laptop only has a combined jack for mic and headset so I wonder if that acts differently than a straight mic input.


I'm fairly certain the stackmat doesn't work with a combined jack. I've tried a few laptops with a couple different OS's and have never managed to get it working, yet it works on every computer with a dedicated mic jack that I've tried.


----------



## h2f (Jan 15, 2016)

AlphaSheep said:


> I'm fairly certain the stackmat doesn't work with a combined jack. I've tried a few laptops with a couple different OS's and have never managed to get it working, yet it works on every computer with a dedicated mic jack that I've tried.



It works with combined jack. I had to buy a new laptop a week ago - I have an asus and my stackmat works fine on Mozilla. Earlier on the older laptop it worked I had 3 inputs. But later it sometimes worked sometimes not. And it didnt work on chrome.


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## Jason Green (Jan 15, 2016)

I've tried a bunch of different settings and none of them have worked. My desktop is ancient, 13 years probably, my iMac is pretty old too probably 7 years. The laptop is only a year old or so. I might try it on my desktop at work later on just to see. I'm pretty sure my cables are ok. Oh well.


----------



## h2f (Jan 15, 2016)

I'm not good in IT and I don't know how to help you.


----------



## Jason Green (Jan 15, 2016)

h2f said:


> I'm not good in IT and I don't know how to help you.


No worries, I appreciate the help. I'll narrow it down some more later and let you know what I find.


----------



## Selkie (Jan 15, 2016)

EvilGnome6 said:


> My first sub-15!



Congratulations!


----------



## MarcelP (Jan 15, 2016)

EvilGnome6 said:


> My first sub-15!
> 
> 
> 
> /me does the happy dance


Awesome! You are on fire!


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## muchacho (Jan 15, 2016)

EvilGnome6 said:


> My first sub-15!
> 
> /me does the happy dance


Congrats!

You literally did a happy dance? I'm one of those boring dudes that don't react much, I get a smile or say "yes" or a swear word at most (in a bad solve).


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## mafergut (Jan 15, 2016)

EvilGnome6 said:


> My first sub-15!
> /me does the happy dance



Congratulations!!! You are progressing a lot in 3x3 lately. You're catching us at 3x3 but I'll never catch you at 4x4 and beyond 



Jason Green said:


> I'll play some more with the stackmat. I wasn't sure which side you had unplugged so tried both, but not on all computers yet. My laptop only has a combined jack for mic and headset so I wonder if that acts differently than a straight mic input. I don't have access to Windows 10 yet but surely the OS would work if settings are correct.



Maybe you can try a 3-way jack to two 2-way splitter. I have one that I use to plug a headset with separate mic and speaker inputs into a new laptop with a 3-way connector. I mean, something like this.


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## h2f (Jan 15, 2016)

EvilGnome6 said:


> My first sub-15!
> 
> /me does the happy dance


Ha! 

Edit: 

I just did sub-10 ao 5 in skewb:*9.84* including single *4.27*  

It also is a part of ao12 *12.66*

Time List:
4.90, 15.27, 10.04, (17.69), 16.10, 11.63, 11.75, 8.74, 10.76, 17.42, (4.27), 10.01


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## Selkie (Jan 15, 2016)

Happy Friday guys. Have a quick laugh at my expense. Just finished putting it back together


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## mafergut (Jan 15, 2016)

Selkie said:


> Happy Friday guys. Have a quick laugh at my expense. Just finished putting it back together
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DMxE2TknXaY



Oh my! I hate when those things happen. Maybe the reason why I don't own anything above a 5x5. Too many pieces


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## muchacho (Jan 15, 2016)

Ouch, I really hate when that happens to my 2x2


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## newtonbase (Jan 15, 2016)

I'd rather buy a new one than put a 6x6 back together.


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## Selkie (Jan 15, 2016)

I have 2 Moyu 6x6 cubes. Unfortunately the last one popped at the weekend and is still sat in pieces in a bag. Was left with no choice but to reassemble it


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## EvilGnome6 (Jan 15, 2016)

muchacho said:


> You literally did a happy dance? I'm one of those boring dudes that don't react much, I get a smile or say "yes" or a swear word at most (in a bad solve).



That's not boring, it stoic. 



mafergut said:


> Congratulations!!! You are progressing a lot in 3x3 lately. You're catching us at 3x3 but I'll never catch you at 4x4 and beyond



I'm getting more and more good singles. Unfortunately, my average isn't really shifting because I screw up so much :meh:.

The only things I've been doing different lately is a lot of OH practice and I turned off all my inspection timers.


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## newtonbase (Jan 15, 2016)

1:55.45 PB single for 4x4 (first sub 2mins) and a 2:18.32 AO5 PB too.


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## MarcelP (Jan 15, 2016)

Selkie said:


> Happy Friday guys. Have a quick laugh at my expense. Just finished putting it back together
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DMxE2TknXaY



LOL.. I really laughed out loud.. Boy how I Freaking hate big cubes explode like that.


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## Jason Green (Jan 15, 2016)

Selkie said:


> Happy Friday guys. Have a quick laugh at my expense. Just finished putting it back together
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DMxE2TknXaY


I can't quite laugh yet. I feel like when someone falls and it looks hilarious but you can't laugh because you're afraid they got hurt.  Glad it's back together, I probably have a couple years at least before I mess with a cube that big (if ever).


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## h2f (Jan 15, 2016)

Selkie said:


> Happy Friday guys. Have a quick laugh at my expense. Just finished putting it back together
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DMxE2TknXaY



Painfull.


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## Rastinha (Jan 15, 2016)

I got really close to popping my 5x5 the other day, when I'd just got it, I was like halfway through the turn and just in time I saw a 2 pieces at the back getting ready to pop out. I know nothing about putting them together so I spent about 5 minutes trying to jam those pieces back in so it wouldn't pop. Got there in the end

That looks like my kinda nightmare but glad you got it back together!

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk


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## mark49152 (Jan 15, 2016)

Popped my 6x6 again today, too. Didn't take so long to get it back together now I've had some practice.


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## EvilGnome6 (Jan 15, 2016)

I would tighten up that 6x6 a bit. Just a quarter turn can help reduce popping and it will break in faster.


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## Logiqx (Jan 15, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> You not able to make Manchester either? That's a shame!



Busy few weeks... might have been viable had it been in Herts. 



EvilGnome6 said:


> My first sub-15!



Congrats. Stackmat as well!



Selkie said:


> Happy Friday guys. Have a quick laugh at my expense. Just finished putting it back together



Nasty!


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## newtonbase (Jan 15, 2016)

Someone popped my Yuxin 5x5 at the UKs not long before I was due to compete. Luckily he managed to put it back together in time as I'd never have been able to. I did get a mini pop on my 2nd round that I had to force back into place.


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## Rastinha (Jan 15, 2016)

You wouldn't believe how close I was to my first sub 2 on my 4x4...







At least the number ocd in me is happy with this time [emoji14]

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk


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## SenorJuan (Jan 15, 2016)

You realize we're all scrutinizing those flowcharts reflected off your screen.
Still, it could be worse:
http://www.snopes.com/photos/risque/kettle.asp

You'll soon be routinely doing sub-2's, I reckon. Time to update your signature.


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## Rastinha (Jan 15, 2016)

Oh right, haha, I didn't notice as the image was so small on my phone screen. It's this flowchart here:






Ah yep, will have to update my signature! Not sure if I can on tapatalk or not... Will have a play around

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk


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## SenorJuan (Jan 15, 2016)

Gotta love those hump-back bridges where paths cross. Reminds me of circuit diagrams in old electronics textbooks from the 70's. They went out of favour in the 80's. Along with 'bed-spring' inductors.


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## Selkie (Jan 15, 2016)

I modded my V-Cube 6 a few years ago so had that apart a few times. Don't think I ever popped my Shenshou 6 but wow this Moyu was far more difficult to put back together. Always found even order cubes the worst to rebuild with the hidden inner mechanism for the non existent middle layer.



Rastinha said:


> You wouldn't believe how close I was to my first sub 2 on my 4x4...



Ouch they do not come much closer but by looking at the times in the shot it wont be long before you get one under the bar


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## EvilGnome6 (Jan 16, 2016)

Rastinha said:


> You wouldn't believe how close I was to my first sub 2 on my 4x4...



Ouch. You'll get there. At least you weren't trying to beat a 2:00 cutoff at a comp. I saw a competitor miss a 1:20 cutoff with a 1:20.00 at a competition in California. I really felt for the kid.


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## Rastinha (Jan 16, 2016)

Selkie said:


> Ouch they do not come much closer but by looking at the times in the shot it wont be long before you get one under the bar



Yeah and those were some older times of mine too, as my phone was on charge so I was using my tablet to time. I usually use my phone. After this one I got a 2:41 ao5 and 2:48 ao12, which wasn't too bad since I was still messing up every few solves and getting 3 and a half ish, haha. 

I just need to practice more, I've learned tons of new things recently, not enough practice of any of them! [emoji14]

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk


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## Rastinha (Jan 16, 2016)

EvilGnome6 said:


> Ouch. You'll get there. At least you weren't trying to beat a 2:00 cutoff at a comp. I saw a competitor miss a 1:20 cutoff with a 1:20.00 at a competition in California. I really felt for the kid.


That would be heart breaking...







“If you look closely you can actually pinpoint the exact moment his heart breaks in two.”

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk


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## h2f (Jan 16, 2016)

It looks like I got a little improvment in other events than 3x3. I got 31 moves solution in FMC which gave me 29.66 mo3 in last 3 solves in weekly competition (33, 25, 31). I also got 13.36 ao100 in skewb.


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## mark49152 (Jan 16, 2016)

Selkie said:


> Don't think I ever popped my Shenshou 6 but wow this Moyu was far more difficult to put back together. Always found even order cubes the worst to rebuild with the hidden inner mechanism for the non existent middle layer.


Yeah the AoShi is punishing. I can't get mine right. An 1/8 turn makes a difference. Too tight and it feels awful, too loose and it feels unstable, locks often, and melts too frequently. I might try switching to ShengShou for a while.

Anyhow, when it stays together my progress is OK. Ao5 PB 5:51, single 5:26, but globally around 6:20. If I can get consistently sub-6, I might compete in Manchester. Also came so close to my first sub-1 4x4 single - 1:00.79. At the moment I'm only practising 6x6, 5x5 and 4x4, roughly equally.


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## h2f (Jan 16, 2016)

Nice results Mark. I would start practicing 6x6 (and i want to solve 6x6 blindfolded in the future) but solves are so long, and I got only SS which is terrible.


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## EvilGnome6 (Jan 16, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> Yeah the AoShi is punishing. I can't get mine right. An 1/8 turn makes a difference. Too tight and it feels awful, too loose and it feels unstable, locks often, and melts too frequently.



I have 3 AoShis. Two of them are stable on moderate tensions. One of them is much more prone to popping, even on tighter tensions. Go figure.


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## mark49152 (Jan 16, 2016)

EvilGnome6 said:


> I have 3 AoShis. Two of them are stable on moderate tensions. One of them is much more prone to popping, even on tighter tensions. Go figure.


I usually buy cubes when they first come out and wonder if they are sometimes from an early bad batch before issues with the moulds were ironed out.


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## Jason Green (Jan 16, 2016)

Well I had a great time at the competition! I ended up with a 27.75 ao5 which is not far off from where I am at, so I am satisfied. Nerves definitely did affect me I could feel it. I was averaging around 25 most of the morning practice with a few sub 20s which was cool. 

I guess once the official results are online I can be added to the "how fast are the over 40s thread"?


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## Rastinha (Jan 16, 2016)

Nice one Jason, that's so cool! Congrats  I can't wait until I can finally complete although at this rate I'll be having terrible times in about 6 different events, lol, rather than something decent in one. 

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk


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## mark49152 (Jan 16, 2016)

Jason Green said:


> Well I had a great time at the competition! I ended up with a 27.75 ao5 which is not far off from where I am at, so I am satisfied. Nerves definitely did affect me I could feel it.


Awesome, good job . Were you more nervous than you expected? I always am. I tell myself it's only cubing and doesn't matter, but the nerves always get to me anyway...


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## h2f (Jan 16, 2016)

Great Jason! Great times in your first comp. Congrats!


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## Jason Green (Jan 16, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> Awesome, good job . Were you more nervous than you expected? I always am. I tell myself it's only cubing and doesn't matter, but the nerves always get to me anyway...


I don't know if it was more, I've bowled in some things above my ability and I definitely have a hard time doing that so I knew my nerves can get pretty bad. That's why my goal was to just get an average really. I'm glad I didn't have to completely redo f2l because of a botched Perm like I do sometimes. In prep for this I had a couple of near minute solves that I usually just quit when I practice. 

I had the plus two which I think I spun as I released, and I inserted one f2l slot wrong and had to fix, but the rest was not too bad.

It was a little different feeling than I expected. I feared starting inspection and not remembering how to make a cross. Or staring for 10 seconds to try and remember the next step in a solve. Instead I would pick up my cube and after a couple of seconds of inspection, I would think "hey, this is my cube!" It didn't seem like my own at first for some reason.


----------



## Jason Green (Jan 17, 2016)

I forgot, the only thing different than I expected was that we got up after each solve and went back to the waiting area to be called again. Maybe it was because of the time and only having 8 stations to solve. It seemed to work fine. 

Hey, the results are on cubecomps now. Can that get me on the over 40 list? I'm excited to be on there.  I suppose it has to be on WCA and I have my ID first though. 

http://m.cubecomps.com/competitions/1336/events/1/rounds/1/results

Edit - born in 1974 BTW


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## muchacho (Jan 17, 2016)

Well done, those are good times... I fear mines will be further from what I average and ao5 won't be under 30 seconds.

Where there other old cubers?


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## newtonbase (Jan 17, 2016)

Well done Jason. 

My son said "cube" for the first time yesterday. Also, 5.89s PB single on 2x2. I now have a 5s and 2x7s but no 6s or 8s. I'm averaging just under 15s.


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## Rastinha (Jan 17, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> Well done Jason.
> 
> My son said "cube" for the first time yesterday. Also, 5.89s PB single on 2x2. I now have a 5s and 2x7s but no 6s or 8s. I'm averaging just under 15s.


What method are you using for 2x2? 

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk


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## newtonbase (Jan 17, 2016)

Rastinha said:


> What method are you using for 2x2?
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk



Ortega. I don't know all the PBLs yet but as I can't predict which will be needed I have to inspect the cube anyway so just a few cases is enough for now. I've been practicing first face.


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## SenorJuan (Jan 17, 2016)

"My son said "cube" for the first time yesterday"
That's a good start. Next step:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OPO3IjwCCTY


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## muchacho (Jan 17, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> Well done Jason.
> 
> My son said "cube" for the first time yesterday. Also, 5.89s PB single on 2x2. I now have a 5s and 2x7s but no 6s or 8s. I'm averaging just under 15s.


Tell him to call it a hexahedron with square faces, cube is too easy


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## Jason Green (Jan 17, 2016)

muchacho said:


> Well done, those are good times... I fear mines will be further from what I average and ao5 won't be under 30 seconds.
> 
> Where there other old cubers?



Thank you, and thanks to everyone!

I did not see any other older cubers.  there was a very very young one, like probably 5. He could solve it in about 1:30. I thought I should get a picture with him of the oldest and youngest competitors but I did not get to.


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## MarcelP (Jan 17, 2016)

Good job Jason! Great average as a first one! I did a lot worse on my first.



Jason Green said:


> I guess once the official results are online I can be added to the "how fast are the over 40s thread"?



yeah It takes a few days some times for the result to become official.  Be patient. LOL



Jason Green said:


> I did not see any other older cubers.



Well Antony is no teenager


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## mafergut (Jan 17, 2016)

Jason Green said:


> Thank you, and thanks to everyone!
> 
> I did not see any other older cubers.  there was a very very young one, like probably 5. He could solve it in about 1:30. I thought I should get a picture with him of the oldest and youngest competitors but I did not get to.



That photo would have been awesome! Anyway, congratulations for having your nerves under control in your first competition. I still wonder if I ever will go to one. Don't forget to add your WCA ID to your forum profile as soon as you get it


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## h2f (Jan 17, 2016)

mafergut said:


> I still wonder if I ever will go to one.



Come on, why not? You will see that competition is a lot, lot of fun. I'm trying to be as often as I can and I take part in every event I can.


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## muchacho (Jan 17, 2016)

Who know why but I was having a good day, so I tried to improve my ao100, it took me several sessions and 150 solves because of a DNF but I got it, 26.889 (previous one was 27.816 from 10 days ago).


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## h2f (Jan 17, 2016)

Nice. But why don't you just delete dnf? I dont do it only when I practice bld events.

Edit: I have a good day too. I did a lot of events in weekly competition. And finally got good 3bld session with over 70% acc. I've decided to slow down with learning comms and focus on advanced M2 with few tricks and FU sticker as a second target.


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## Jason Green (Jan 17, 2016)

muchacho said:


> Who know why but I was having a good day, so I tried to improve my ao100, it took me several sessions and 150 solves because of a DNF but I got it, 26.889 (previous one was 27.816 from 10 days ago).


Good job! Yes you really should compete when you can. I enjoyed it probably more than I expected. I was worried some about feeling more awkward being older and all, but I just grabbed a seat at a practice table and fit right in.  (and my social skills are mediocre at best)


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## mark49152 (Jan 17, 2016)

h2f said:


> I've decided to slow down with learning comms and focus on advanced M2 with few tricks and FU sticker as a second target.


I'm also focusing on just getting better with M2/OP. This post from the BLD accomplishment thread sums it up beautifully:-



SirWaffle said:


> Well my insight on comms since many folks are talking about them.
> 
> Oh wait i havent learned them i just memo in 10 seconds xDD


----------



## muchacho (Jan 17, 2016)

h2f said:


> Nice. But why don't you just delete dnf? I dont do it only when I practice bld events.


You cheater  ...if I didn't count them then I would probably just DNF most of the solves where I screw something up and end with a more than 50 seconds solve, I'm trying not to do that.



Jason Green said:


> Good job! Yes you really should compete when you can. I enjoyed it probably more than I expected. I was worried some about feeling more awkward being older and all, but I just grabbed a seat at a practice table and fit right in.  (and my social skills are mediocre at best)


If I can I'll compete in 3 weeks:
https://www.worldcubeassociation.org/results/c.php?i=ZaragozaOpen2016

I should start practicing to pick up and drop the cube.


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## h2f (Jan 17, 2016)

muchacho said:


> You cheater



 Yeah. 




mark49152 said:


> I'm also focusing on just getting better with M2/OP. This post from the BLD accomplishment thread sums it up beautifully:-



I've seen it too. But my thoughts came out of myself - I had a week break and I've noticed when I do pure M2 it's a full automatic. When I add advanced tricks, it's semiautomatic. But when I add many comms - of course not. So I stopped. But i do comms for corners. And I've noticed my FU sticker become almost automatic and I've liked to add setups for it when I can. Now I want to improve my memo in all bld events.


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## Lid (Jan 17, 2016)

New avg 12 PB again on 3x3x3 today  - ba5 was vg also but not PB.

17.675, _15.483, 13.630, (13.363), (20.376), 15.861_, 16.931, 16.655, 18.825, 15.034, 14.822, 14.289 = *15.921* (_ba5 *14.991*_)


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## newtonbase (Jan 17, 2016)

Well done Lid. 

You know when you just need a half decent solve to beat a PB and you make a complete hash of it? That didn't happen this time. Just broke my 2x2 single and averages up to AO 50 with one solve. 5.53 single, 9.00 AO5, 10.75 AO12, and 13.92 AO50.


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## cubesp (Jan 18, 2016)

Jason Green said:


> I forgot, the only thing different than I expected was that we got up after each solve and went back to the waiting area to be called again. Maybe it was because of the time and only having 8 stations to solve. It seemed to work fine.
> 
> Hey, the results are on cubecomps now. Can that get me on the over 40 list? I'm excited to be on there.  I suppose it has to be on WCA and I have my ID first though.
> 
> ...



Well done!!

Better than my first (and only) competition!!

And you remember me "the list", but I don't remember the link !!
I'm not sure if I did it last october, so I ask too to get me on the list.

cubesp, Eugenio Spadafora, 1969, 2015SPAD01, Italy
first cube ordered 20th Jan 2015, Rubik's


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## cubesp (Jan 18, 2016)

link found. request done to the list's owner


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## Jason Green (Jan 18, 2016)

cubesp said:


> link found. request done to the list's owner


Doesn't Mike (last name?) own it? Logiqx on here?


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## Jason Green (Jan 18, 2016)

Here's all the videos I took of myself during the solves. The first one was accidentally zoomed in but I posted it anyway. 

OKCubing 2016: http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLeD7wOfgWL5eRKEGqEWuzKkAtiJXR76-_


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## cubesp (Jan 18, 2016)

Jason Green said:


> Doesn't Mike (last name?) own it? Logiqx on here?



Yes, he is The Owner!!


----------



## cubesp (Jan 18, 2016)

Jason Green said:


> Here's all the videos I took of myself during the solves. The first one was accidentally zoomed in but I posted it anyway.
> 
> OKCubing 2016: http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLeD7wOfgWL5eRKEGqEWuzKkAtiJXR76-_





Great !


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## Logiqx (Jan 18, 2016)

Jason Green said:


> Doesn't Mike (last name?) own it? Logiqx on here?


Yeah. It is overdue an update. Add your details to the thread so i dont forget. 

Sent from my GT-I9305 using Tapatalk


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## Jason Green (Jan 18, 2016)

Logiqx said:


> Yeah. It is overdue an update. Add your details to the thread so i dont forget.
> 
> Sent from my GT-I9305 using Tapatalk


Thanks I'll add mine as soon as I get my WCA ID!


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## newtonbase (Jan 18, 2016)

Jason Green said:


> Here's all the videos I took of myself during the solves. The first one was accidentally zoomed in but I posted it anyway.
> 
> OKCubing 2016: http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLeD7wOfgWL5eRKEGqEWuzKkAtiJXR76-_



Your judge seemed to have trouble calculating that +2.


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## Jason Green (Jan 18, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> Your judge seemed to have trouble calculating that +2.


I'm not sure if it was the math, or him just trying to remember how to write it correctly. On the score sheet it looks like he started to write an = where the + should be.


----------



## muchacho (Jan 18, 2016)

Jason Green said:


> Thanks I'll add mine as soon as I get my WCA ID!


2016GREE02
https://www.worldcubeassociation.org/results/p.php?i=2016GREE02


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## h2f (Jan 18, 2016)

In US they appear pretty fast.


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## moralsh (Jan 18, 2016)

Nice first solves Jason My first average was worse 30.something It was also very close to what I was averaging at home. 

muchacho, there are no DNFs or +2 at home, it is known.

I have a 2x 3x, 4x, OH, BLD 4BLD Multi and Pyra comp in two weeks, I expect disaster in all events except maybe OH because I have a ****** average. I haven't practiced much lately.


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## mafergut (Jan 18, 2016)

moralsh said:


> Nice first solves Jason My first average was worse 30.something It was also very close to what I was averaging at home.
> 
> muchacho, there are no DNFs or +2 at home, it is known.
> 
> I have a 2x 3x, 4x, OH, BLD 4BLD Multi and Pyra comp in two weeks, I expect disaster in all events except maybe OH because I have a ****** average. I haven't practiced much lately.



C'mon! Go for it! I'm trying to expand the list of puzzles I solve lately so I decided to learn to solve skewb (Sarah's beginners) and pyra (WO) this past week. Result? I am a patzer at both skewb and pyra and my 3x3 times have suffered again the lack of practise. At this pace I will never graduate from the Race to sub-20 thread


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## Jason Green (Jan 18, 2016)

muchacho said:


> 2016GREE02
> https://www.worldcubeassociation.org/results/p.php?i=2016GREE02


Awesome thanks! I kept checking but it appeared while I was sleeping of course. 

Mike, do you need anything else to get me on the over 40 list? Yob again is 1974. 

Thanks Raul! I agree, the first DNF I think I counted at home was about a week ago prepping for the contest. Oh no, I had one in the forum competition also. For casual practice I usually don't keep them.


----------



## muchacho (Jan 18, 2016)

Did you practice dropping the cube? if so it worked.


----------



## MarcelP (Jan 18, 2016)

muchacho said:


> 2016GREE02
> https://www.worldcubeassociation.org/results/p.php?i=2016GREE02



Okay Jason, you are officially cool now


----------



## Jason Green (Jan 18, 2016)

muchacho said:


> Did you practice dropping the cube? if so it worked.


Oh yes, I got a stackmat and practiced quite a bit with it. Thanks!


----------



## Jason Green (Jan 18, 2016)

MarcelP said:


> Okay Jason, you are officially cool now


Right?! 41 years of being cool and it's finally official!!


----------



## mafergut (Jan 18, 2016)

Jason Green said:


> Awesome thanks! I kept checking but it appeared while I was sleeping of course.
> 
> Mike, do you need anything else to get me on the over 40 list? Yob again is 1974.
> 
> Thanks Raul! I agree, the first DNF I think I counted at home was about a week ago prepping for the contest. Oh no, I had one in the forum competition also. For casual practice I usually don't keep them.



I just keep DNFs (or over 30sec solves when I drop the cube, or fail LL and have to go back to F2L, etc.) for the sake of avoiding a distortion of unofficial PBs Ao5 and Ao12 because if I delete a solve and then I get a good Ao12 I don't remember if the DNF was in the middle of the average or not so I can't count it as PB or whatever. Same for long averages, how can I say that I have a PB Ao100 of X if I deleted 3-5 bad/DNF solves in the middle of it? But, as I know I'm slower when not warmed up, what I do at times if I have a long session interrupted in the middle of it is to do some warmup solves in a different session in csTimer before continuing the average. Unluckly this means that a good solve will happen during warmup that will be lost for the average for sure (Murphy's law, you know).


----------



## muchacho (Jan 18, 2016)

I could do some warmup solves, this morning I though yesterday was just a good day... ao100 was ruined but after 15 solves or so good times started to come back.

I've received a stickerless yuxin 4x4, I hoped colors would be good, but nope, yellow and green are too similar for my eyes, I'm going to dye the green pieces (with RIT dye or something alike). If that works I'll buy the yuxin 5x5 in stickerless also.


----------



## APdRF (Jan 18, 2016)

mafergut said:


> C'mon! Go for it! I'm trying to expand the list of puzzles I solve lately so I decided to learn to solve skewb (Sarah's beginners) and pyra (WO) this past week. Result? I am a patzer at both skewb and pyra and my 3x3 times have suffered again the lack of practise. At this pace I will never graduate from the Race to sub-20 thread



Don't start to practice pyra with WO! Not all the cases are good enough. Start with Keyhole and then go for 1-Flip


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## Jason Green (Jan 18, 2016)

That's a good point on the PBs if you don't count DNFs. I have never paid a lot of attention yet to any PB averages, I think my ao5 is 21.x something? But if I start tracking those, which I should, then I would agree to keep bad solves. Probably good to have some discipline I guess, I've heard discipline can be good in life just never tried it. [emoji14]


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## mafergut (Jan 18, 2016)

APdRF said:


> Don't start to practice pyra with WO! Not all the cases are good enough. Start with Keyhole and then go for 1-Flip



I cannot unlearn WO now but I can learn other methods and stop practising WO  But here I come with some thinking I did on these top-first methods in case you can help me:

From the dozen or so solves I did with basic WO yesterday I realized that in the bad cases where you need to solve 2 or even 3 bottom centers, the need to repeat 2-3 times the five-move alg (something like R' L' R' L R or it's mirror) is quite time consuming. So unless you get a very good case (like a scramble with top already solved) I understand it's not the best method.

So, the idea of keyhole, I assume, is to use that free spot on top to solve the 3 bottom centers in just 1 move each, with maybe a U / U' setup move in between centers to put the keyhole "on top" of the center to be solved, am I correct? I can see how that would be much faster than WO but what I don't see is how to solve the 3rd top edge after that without affecting the already-solved bottom centers. I assume there must be an easy alg that I must learn for that. EDIT: It was much easier than I expected, once you have the pyra in front of you the 4-mover is intuitive enough 

But, then I came to Oka, and I can easily see that having an edge solved and another in the wrong spot can lead to the same solution than before and the 2 top edges can be solved after bottom centers with a 3-mover like R U R' (put the 3rd edge in while extracting the wrong one, rotate the top as needed, put the extracted edge in its place) without affecting the bottom centers. So, it looks like Oka would be a better method than keyhole unless you have a scramble with two top edges solved already. EDIT: And, in this case, it looks like the opposite, the 3 move to solve the two last top edges only works for certain orientations of the edge on the bottom. Will have to watch a video tutorial for this 

Anyway, either with WO, keyhole or Oka, the bottom edges can be solved either with the 4-move 3-cycle or, I assume, with specific algs for each case if you wanna get faster, but basically the same algs for all methods, right?

Last but not least, 1-flip I assume is more algorithmical and maybe good for advanced pyraminxers and for cases where you already have an easy 1-flip top.

If my reasoning is correct maybe I can learn basic keyhole and Oka in like a day? (without learning specific algs for the 3LE other than the 3 cycle, as they can be solved with at most 2 consecutive 3 cycles in the worst cases).

Thanks for your advice!


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## newtonbase (Jan 18, 2016)

muchacho said:


> I could do some warmup solves, this morning I though yesterday was just a good day... ao100 was ruined but after 15 solves or so good times started to come back.
> 
> I've received a stickerless yuxin 4x4, I hoped colors would be good, but nope, yellow and green are too similar for my eyes, I'm going to dye the green pieces (with RIT dye or something alike). If that works I'll buy the yuxin 5x5 in stickerless also.



The Yuxin 5x5 is a fantastic cube. The 4x4 is OK but I prefer the Cyclone Boys.


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## muchacho (Jan 18, 2016)

I have another OK cube (Yusu), but I had to try, stickerless cubes are beautiful, I will probably also buy the Yuxin 5x5 even if I can't speedsolve it because of the colors.


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## APdRF (Jan 18, 2016)

mafergut said:


> I cannot unlearn WO now but I can learn other methods and stop practising WO  But here I come with some thinking I did on these top-first methods in case you can help me: Don't stop practicing it, when you see an easy case in inspection, go for it
> 
> From the dozen or so solves I did with basic WO yesterday I realized that in the bad cases where you need to solve 2 or even 3 bottom centers, the need to repeat 2-3 times the five-move alg (something like R' L' R' L R or it's mirror) is quite time consuming. So unless you get a very good case (like a scramble with top already solved) I understand it's not the best method. That's the problem of WO (or even Nutella), the bad cases are sooo bad.
> 
> ...



Hope it helps you!


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## mafergut (Jan 18, 2016)

APdRF said:


> Hope it helps you!



It helped a lot, as always. Thanks!!! But I still was wrong in so many ways, I guess. E.g.: I was all happy with keyhole and then I get the case where you orient the bottom centers and the 3rd edge ends up flipped in place in the keyhole  I already checked some videos and found out that the fastest way to fix that is to do a two-flip between that and an adjacent bottom edge. Anyway, mi times still vary a lot between like 15 and 25 (or even worse) seconds. I need TONS of practise.


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## APdRF (Jan 18, 2016)

mafergut said:


> It helped a lot, as always. Thanks!!! But I still was wrong in so many ways, I guess. E.g.: I was all happy with keyhole and then I get the case where you orient the bottom centers and the 3rd edge ends up flipped in place in the keyhole  I already checked some videos and found out that the fastest way to fix that is to do a two-flip between that and an adjacent bottom edge. Anyway, mi times still vary a lot between like 15 and 25 (or even worse) seconds. *I need TONS of practise*.



That's the key


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## Logiqx (Jan 18, 2016)

Jason Green said:


> Mike, do you need anything else to get me on the over 40 list? Yob again is 1974.



That's all I need. I enjoyed your videos btw... subscriber_count++.


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## Jason Green (Jan 18, 2016)

Logiqx said:


> That's all I need. I enjoyed your videos btw... subscriber_count++.


Thank you!


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## newtonbase (Jan 20, 2016)

8 DNFs out of 8 on 3BLD. I've been doing pretty well on 2x2 and 3x3 recently but I seem to be going backwards on blind. I might be better not trying it at Manchester as a 3rd failed comp in a row could put me off altogether. I need to change something.

Moan over.


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## h2f (Jan 20, 2016)

The longest streak I had is 18 3bld dnfs in a row. So you have to do 12 to equal my record.  There are two main reasons of it: wrong memo or wrong execution. And there are few cures for it: slow down, check your execution. When I did few dnfs in a row I've started to redo scrambles to see what was wrong. And it helped sometimes. But sometimes it helped to make a break because theres third factor in blind solves - a mind. Maybe you were just to tired to make blind solves.


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## Jason Green (Jan 20, 2016)

Tonight I had 8 sub 20 solves out of about 150. That is by far the most I've had so I was pretty excited. I think I've had 2 or possibly 3 once before.

Plus I'm posting this to see if my signature works now from Tapatalk.


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## h2f (Jan 20, 2016)

Nice Jason. You're on fire. But I cant see your signature from tapatalk.


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## Jason Green (Jan 20, 2016)

h2f said:


> Nice Jason. You're on fire. But I cant see your signature from tapatalk.


Yeah me either. If you load the forum in a web browser it shows though. I guess that's how it works. 

And thanks.


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## Logiqx (Jan 20, 2016)

Jason Green said:


> Tonight I had 8 sub 20 solves out of about 150. That is by far the most I've had so I was pretty excited. I think I've had 2 or possibly 3 once before.
> 
> Plus I'm posting this to see if my signature works now from Tapatalk.


Nice work. Well on your way to sub-20. 

Sent from my GT-I9305 using Tapatalk


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## mark49152 (Jan 20, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> 8 DNFs out of 8 on 3BLD. I've been doing pretty well on 2x2 and 3x3 recently but I seem to be going backwards on blind. I might be better not trying it at Manchester as a 3rd failed comp in a row could put me off altogether. I need to change something.


We all have off days. Stay positive, and don't miss the chance to get an official success! Do you know what went wrong? Often the key is to understand the kinds of mistakes you are making and work specifically on eliminating those. For example, my weakness is flipped and twisted pieces. The majority of my DNFs are down to forgetting or misremembering those.


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## newtonbase (Jan 20, 2016)

h2f said:


> The longest streak I had is 18 3bld dnfs in a row. So you have to do 12 to equal my record.  There are two main reasons of it: wrong memo or wrong execution. And there are few cures for it: slow down, check your execution. When I did few dnfs in a row I've started to redo scrambles to see what was wrong. And it helped sometimes. But sometimes it helped to make a break because theres third factor in blind solves - a mind. Maybe you were just to tired to make blind solves.



I think you are right that it was a mind thing. 7 of them were so bad I couldn't work out what had gone wrong. The other was a missed letter pair. I filmed solve 8 but found I'd scrambled wrongly in the first place so went to bed.


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## Logiqx (Jan 20, 2016)

Forgot to mention. Another commuter on train told me "that's astonishing" and asked if he could film me solve the cube. That's not happened to me before today. Lol

Sent from my GT-I9305 using Tapatalk


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## Jason Green (Jan 20, 2016)

Logiqx said:


> Forgot to mention. Another commuter on train told me "that's astonishing" and asked if he could film me solve the cube. That's not happened to me before today. Lol
> 
> Sent from my GT-I9305 using Tapatalk


That's cool. You should have told him to email you the YouTube link if he put it up. 

Any idea when you'll update the over 40 post? Nag, nag, nag.


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## mafergut (Jan 20, 2016)

Logiqx said:


> Forgot to mention. Another commuter on train told me "that's astonishing" and asked if he could film me solve the cube. That's not happened to me before today. Lol
> 
> Sent from my GT-I9305 using Tapatalk



The most I have experienced myself as a cuber+commuter was one day, months ago, when some woman on the train looked at me and said something like "wow! incredible". Nothing about filming me solving or things like that. She was cute, though, does that count?


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## Logiqx (Jan 20, 2016)

It was quite amusing. The solve ended with Na perm and i do the long but fast 20? move solution (conjugate of t-perm). I wasn't looking at the cube and i saw his reflection on the window as his draw dropped. Lol

Sent from my GT-I9305 using Tapatalk


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## muchacho (Jan 20, 2016)

I'm averaging now those 27 seconds of the last ao5 I uploaded to youtube, so I've done a slightly faster one (25.47). I was averaging 29 seconds then, so it took me 40 days to improve 2 seconds... too slow, Jason is getting out of reach! 








Spoiler: Ao5 times



1. 26.528 B2 F2 L2 B2 U' B2 R2 D B2 U' L' R2 B' R' D' B' R U' F' U2 L'
2. 23.918 F2 R2 U L2 D2 F2 U F2 L2 D U' B' L2 U B' D' F' L' U' L D2 U'
3. 25.199 B2 D2 F2 D' R2 F2 D B2 D2 U F2 L' B' R B2 U' R2 U F' R F' U2
4. 25.991 R2 D R2 U' B2 D2 B2 D2 L2 B2 U B' R' F' D' L' F2 R F U' L2 D
5. 25.222 R2 F2 U2 B2 U2 R2 D R2 U' R2 F2 L B' D' B' R2 B2 F' R' B' U


Single PB: 16.328
Best average of 5: 21.865
Best average of 12: 24.017
Best average of 100: 26.095


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## SenorJuan (Jan 20, 2016)

Some years ago (2007?) when I wasn't so skillful at OH 333, I worked with a couple of French university students who were over here on work experience. They were astounded by my just-sub-60s solves, and wanted to film me. I declined, and I told them a Frenchman, Thibaut Jacquinot, was one of the best OH guys, and was a 20-sec solver. After watching clips of him, I guess they realised my clumsy solves weren't so astounding after all....
I was still using a heavily-modded Rubiks brand then, algorithmic 'F2L' with lots and lots of cube rotations.


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## MarcelP (Jan 20, 2016)

muchacho said:


> I'm averaging now those 27 seconds of the last ao5 I uploaded to youtube, so I've done a slightly faster one (25.47). I was averaging 29 seconds then, so it took me 40 days to improve 2 seconds... too slow, Jason is getting out of reach!
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TviwddqiSEU
> 
> ...



Very nice!! Looks pretty smooth and controlled. Keep it up!


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## h2f (Jan 20, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> I think you are right that it was a mind thing. 7 of them were so bad I couldn't work out what had gone wrong. The other was a missed letter pair. I filmed solve 8 but found I'd scrambled wrongly in the first place so went to bed.



I've noticed that if I'm back from a job at night (7-8 pm) Im not able to make good solves. Not only 3bld but ohters too.


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## muchacho (Jan 20, 2016)

MarcelP said:


> Very nice!! Looks pretty smooth and controlled. Keep it up!


Thanks, I'll try. It doesn't look too smooth to me. I seem to make more mistakes and pauses just by filming myself... or maybe I make them but don't usually notice, anyway I should film more solves.

It's a strange ao5, 2 solves where with first block on the right, usually it's maybe just 1 out of 10 and 7 with blue/white and 2 with blue/yellow on the left.


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## Logiqx (Jan 20, 2016)

Jason Green said:


> Any idea when you'll update the over 40 post? Nag, nag, nag.



Maybe this weekend. It's quite manual / tedious at the moment so I will script up the SQL->BB code to make it quicker / easier in future. I don't feel like doing any coding after a 12-14 hour commuter day, hence why it will be a weekend activity.


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## Jason Green (Jan 20, 2016)

Logiqx said:


> Maybe this weekend. It's quite manual / tedious at the moment so I will script up the SQL->BB code to make it quicker / easier in future. I don't feel like doing any coding after a 12-14 hour commuter day, hence why it will be a weekend activity.


Thanks, I understand. I used to do some iPhone development back when I was single. Now I hardly ever touch my home computers. Maybe that's why I can't get my stackmat working with them. 

I would offer to help but you would probably hate any SQL I wrote.  My C# you might like better than my SQL. Is there open access to the WCA DBs?


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## muchacho (Jan 20, 2016)

Sure it is:
https://www.worldcubeassociation.org/results/misc/export.html

I'm guessing *Lid* knows how to work with the WCA DB.


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## Jason Green (Jan 20, 2016)

muchacho said:


> Sure it is:
> https://www.worldcubeassociation.org/results/misc/export.html
> 
> I'm guessing *Lid* knows how to work with the WCA DB.


I saw Mike had some SQL posted on the thread. One of those things I might play with if I found some time (and didn't want to use it practicing my cubing).


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## muchacho (Jan 20, 2016)

Knowing WCA ID's and their YOB maybe it would be possible to use this (https://www.speedsolving.com/forum/showthread.php?49120-WCA-Statistics-Tools) to update the thread of "over 40" easily.


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## cubesp (Jan 20, 2016)

I think he just will wrote an auto "download wcadb export + locale import + recreate the table using the SQL he already have" script or something like that.
The "custom" part he already did and it is published as last spoiler of the list.

He could also produce statistics in a


Spoiler



...


 format in order to do a single copy-paste into the first post ...
He could do or I could do

Let me know Logiqx if I can help. I'm better on Oracle but I can handle mysql syntax ... (a few google searches!!)


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## cubesp (Jan 20, 2016)

muchacho said:


> Knowing WCA ID's and their YOB maybe it would be possible to use this (https://www.speedsolving.com/forum/showthread.php?49120-WCA-Statistics-Tools) to update the thread of "over 40" easily.



It seems to fit!!


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## muchacho (Jan 21, 2016)

Today I've done an untimed 4x4 solve (that it didn't have parity) and thought it was fast (I mean, like 5 minutes fast or so) so I decided to time some solves. In first one I messed a parity alg, with second solve I got 8:52 (first timed solve so PB), it was less than 6 minutes until parity. I think I'm going to try some more, until I get no parity 

edit: next 4 solves: DNF, 5:18, 6:48 and 4:34 (this had no parity)


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## mafergut (Jan 21, 2016)

muchacho said:


> Today I've done an untimed 4x4 solve (that it didn't have parity) and thought it was fast (I mean, like 5 minutes fast or so) so I decided to time some solves. In first one I messed a parity alg, with second solve I got 8:52 (first timed solve so PB), it was less than 6 minutes until parity. I think I'm going to try some more, until I get no parity
> 
> edit: next 4 solves: DNF, 5:18, 6:48 and 4:34 (this had no parity)



Nice that you start getting into other events. Do you practise anything else apart from 3x3 and 4x4?

These last months with so little progress (if any) at 3x3 have made me realize that even if I cannot get beyond sub-20 at 3x3, I can still enjoy solving and improving at other puzzles and that's what has made me keep my motivation. Maybe I will never be a super-fast 3x3 solver or get sub-15 or anything but I can get decent at 2x2, 4x4, skewb, pyra, mega... and that's fun!

EDIT: I saw in the WC that you at least took part last week in 2x2, 3x3, OH and skewb


----------



## muchacho (Jan 21, 2016)

Now I'm practicing for my first comp, but after that I'll start doing megaminx, pyraminx, 3x3BLD, 4x4 and 5x5... or I'll try at least.

From the timer logs, in last 7 days:
3x3: 647 solves (probably 750 in total counting untimed solves)
3x3OH: 10 (probably 25 in total)
2x2: 58 (probably 100-125 in total)
Skewb: 172 (probably 250 in total)

In 4x4 probably like only 8 solves in last 30 days... oh, and 1 in megaminx, my niece scrambled it


----------



## mark49152 (Jan 21, 2016)

mafergut said:


> These last months with so little progress (if any) at 3x3 have made me realize that even if I cannot get beyond sub-20 at 3x3, I can still enjoy solving and improving at other puzzles and that's what has made me keep my motivation.


Same here. I worked for many months at 3x3 doing 1000s of solves for only tiny improvements, and got quite demoralised and bored. Now I am really enjoying other events where I have more room for improvement. I rarely practise 3x3 now.


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## MarcelP (Jan 21, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> Same here. I worked for many months at 3x3 doing 1000s of solves for only tiny improvements, and got quite demoralised and bored. Now I am really enjoying other events where I have more room for improvement. I rarely practise 3x3 now.



And Same here.. Only thing right now is that I do not practice anything. Not because I am bored or demoralised but just because I am doing a lot of stuff other than cubing right now. I think I will give Roux another try when I get more time.


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## Logiqx (Jan 21, 2016)

cubesp said:


> I think he just will wrote an auto "download wcadb export + locale import + recreate the table using the SQL he already have" script or something like that.
> The "custom" part he already did and it is published as last spoiler of the list.
> 
> He could also produce statistics in a
> ...



Yes. That's basically it. I never imagined it would be run more than once as it was quickly done prior to my first competition.

The data is acquired by running the SQL shown in the thread itself (originally just "single" + "average" but "FMC"+"MBLD" were added by request) then pasted into Excel to generate the BB code. BB code is then copied into the original post but there are many copy / paste operations for each section (single, average, FMC, MBLD) and I have little patience for repeated tasks. Oh... MySQL is also running in a VM and Excel is on my host so it is just fractionally more tedious. 

I'll just write a Python script to run the SQL and generate a single block of BB code which can be pasted straight into the forum. I need to re-familiaririse myself with Python after many years abstinence and this will be a nice simple exercise. Stefan's library looks interesting but for now the custom approach is more appealing as I need remind myself how to write Python from scratch.


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## mafergut (Jan 21, 2016)

muchacho said:


> Now I'm practicing for my first comp, but after that I'll start doing megaminx, pyraminx, 3x3BLD, 4x4 and 5x5... or I'll try at least.
> 
> From the timer logs, in last 7 days:
> 3x3: 647 solves (probably 750 in total counting untimed solves)
> ...



Wow! That's massively biased towards 3x3. In my case, lately I am trying to learn skweb and pyra so I mainly practise those and some 3x3 & OH just to keep them fresh but when I practise 2x2 I start solving and when I realize that I've been solving for a while I can have like 200 solves in the timer  2x2 goes by so fast...!


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## muchacho (Jan 21, 2016)

Yeah, too much 3x3, last year the competition in Zaragoza was held in April, I calculated that by April I might be close to 25 seconds, so when I knew that this year it was in February I doubled the number of 3x3 solves (but I won't get close to 25 anyway).


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## muchacho (Jan 21, 2016)

I've done like 10 4x4 and only used 2 parity algs, this ones from https://www.speedsolving.com/wiki/index.php/4x4x4_Parity_Algorithms:
- One Dedge Flip
- Two Dedges (Oriented) Opposite

Is that all (the minimum) I need to learn? (I use Roux and leave the parity until the end if that matters)


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## mafergut (Jan 21, 2016)

muchacho said:


> I've done like 10 4x4 and only used 2 parity algs, this ones from https://www.speedsolving.com/wiki/index.php/4x4x4_Parity_Algorithms:
> - One Dedge Flip
> - Two Dedges (Oriented) Opposite
> 
> Is that all (the minimum) I need to learn? (I use Roux and leave the parity until the end if that matters)



The only two parity algs I know and use for 4x4 are those two, I guess:

The 1st one ("OLL parity") which flips one dedge (it also twists the adjacent corners and moves some stuff around the LL).
The 2nd one that exchanges two opposite dedges and nothing else ("PLL parity").

I assume top solvers know some more so that when they have OLL parity they can skip OLL afterwards (in some cases, at least) or get an easier PLL when they find PLL parity but I'm not good enought to feel that need yet.


----------



## h2f (Jan 21, 2016)

MarcelP said:


> And Same here.. Only thing right now is that I do not practice anything. Not because I am bored or demoralised but just because I am doing a lot of stuff other than cubing right now. I think I will give Roux another try when I get more time.


Same herę. I think about roux too. But im still improving in cfop though i practice a little. 

patataj patataj patataj


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## muchacho (Jan 21, 2016)

mafergut said:


> The only two parity algs I know and use for 4x4 are those two, I guess:
> 
> The 1st one ("OLL parity") which flips one dedge (it also twists the adjacent corners and moves some stuff around the LL).
> The 2nd one that exchanges two opposite dedges and nothing else ("PLL parity").
> ...


OK thanks! One alg is very easy, the other will take more effort to learn, but it's fine, I thought 4x4 was harder


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## shadowslice e (Jan 21, 2016)

muchacho said:


> I've done like 10 4x4 and only used 2 parity algs, this ones from https://www.speedsolving.com/wiki/index.php/4x4x4_Parity_Algorithms:
> - One Dedge Flip
> - Two Dedges (Oriented) Opposite
> 
> Is that all (the minimum) I need to learn? (I use Roux and leave the parity until the end if that matters)



It's worth knowing that you can do adjacent PLL parity by sexy, opposite Parity, yxes.


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## muchacho (Jan 21, 2016)

shadowslice e said:


> It's worth knowing that you can do adjacent PLL parity by sexy, opposite Parity, yxes.


Thanks!

Do you use Meyer for 4x4?


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## shadowslice e (Jan 21, 2016)

muchacho said:


> Thanks!
> 
> Do you use Meyer for 4x4?



Well, I do all sorts of methods depending on what I feel like really.

In general I probably do adapted Yau cause the edges pairing is easier because you have more slots to place.


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## EvilGnome6 (Jan 21, 2016)

As you learn to identify the 4x4 parity cases, pay attention to which edge(s) you choose to flip or swap. You can influence which OLL or PLL case you get.


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## muchacho (Jan 21, 2016)

I've been doing all parity at the end of the solve, but I'll look into that.


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## Jason Green (Jan 21, 2016)

EvilGnome6 said:


> As you learn to identify the 4x4 parity cases, pay attention to which edge(s) you choose to flip or swap. You can influence which OLL or PLL case you get.


Mike, Shonathon Collins asked if I knew you at the OKC competition when I said I hung out in the older cubers thread. I didn't remember your last name, so I said I'd probably know your screen name, which I did of course.


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## EvilGnome6 (Jan 21, 2016)

Oh, cool. He's good people. He'll be out here in March for my next competition.


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## mafergut (Jan 21, 2016)

shadowslice e said:


> It's worth knowing that you can do adjacent PLL parity by sexy, opposite Parity, yxes.



Nice trick for a PLL skip or sth like that. Thanks!!!


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## newtonbase (Jan 21, 2016)

I'd never bothered to learn adjacent edge swap parity but I've just looked it up and it's quite easy and obvious. R2 D' to setuo UR to DF, x then opposite swap and undo setups. I've always just done opposite swap then fixed with a U perm.


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## Logiqx (Jan 23, 2016)

It's been a while since I did any filming. First sub-18 Ao12 on film:






I also dusted off my 5x5 and caught a few sub-3 solves on film with 2:45 being the fastest:


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## h2f (Jan 23, 2016)

Nice. I like your films.

I've learnt few more algs for sq-1. I like this puzzle though didnt timed my solves yet.


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## Jason Green (Jan 23, 2016)

Good job Mike! F2L is so smooth.


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## newtonbase (Jan 23, 2016)

Logiqx said:


> It's been a while since I did any filming. First sub-18 Ao12 on film:
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LxcX64f59t0
> 
> ...



Nice 5x5. I'm very envious. Pretty sure I won't be getting at2nd solve or a PB at Manchester. Are your pauses just to find pieces or are you working out the best way to deal with them?


----------



## Hssandwich (Jan 23, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> Nice 5x5. I'm very envious. Pretty sure I won't be getting at2nd solve or a PB at Manchester. Are your pauses just to find pieces or are you working out the best way to deal with them?



You will get a second solve at Manchester, the soft cut is done after your first two solves, so if one of them is under the soft cut, you will get the average, however, if neither of your two solves are under the soft cut, you will not get to finish the average.


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## newtonbase (Jan 23, 2016)

No hard cut then?Although they are often ignored. It was 5 mins hard cut at the UKs but I got a 2nd solve.


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## Logiqx (Jan 24, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> Nice 5x5. I'm very envious. Pretty sure I won't be getting at2nd solve or a PB at Manchester. Are your pauses just to find pieces or are you working out the best way to deal with them?



I think the pauses on that solve were due to me seeing multiple good cases. I recall working out whether I could do them in an order which would preserve the remaining cases. I don't normally pause nearly so much so it was funny that it ended up being a PB.


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## mark49152 (Jan 24, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> No hard cut then?Although they are often ignored. It was 5 mins hard cut at the UKs but I got a 2nd solve.


I think you always get a second solve even if you hit hard cut on the first.

Once again, Mike shows how slow turning can get good times. I'm sure when I get 2:45 it looks a lot more frantic than that...


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## newtonbase (Jan 24, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> I think you always get a second solve even if you hit hard cut on the first.
> 
> Once again, Mike shows how slow turning can get good times. I'm sure when I get 2:45 it looks a lot more frantic than that...



I think I've been getting confused as they say you'll have your attempt stopped and be awarded a DNF. I'd assumed wrongly, that it meant your round was over. 

Is it just Mark and me going to Manchester next week?


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## MarcelP (Jan 24, 2016)

Logiqx said:


> It's been a while since I did any filming. First sub-18 Ao12 on film:


That was awesome Mike. I am pretty sure you have surpassed me big time. I do not think I can pull that off today  The first 9 solves where very smooth. Even a 16 sec green cross. Very cool. Then you had a +2 (tapped for doing U' with left hand) and than the solves following where without lookahead. You paused betwee F2L and OLL and PLL.. I think you where anxious to get that sub 18? LOL Very cool stuff Mike. And remember... everyone without a sub 18 on camera is a noob 



Logiqx said:


> I also dusted off my 5x5 and caught a few sub-3 solves on film with 2:45 being the fastest:



I could not do that even if my life depended on it. Still averaging 4:30.



mark49152 said:


> it looks a lot more frantic than that...



LOL!


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## mark49152 (Jan 24, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> Is it just Mark and me going to Manchester next week?


There's another older guy registered, Andy Nicholls, who posts as "shaky hands" on here. It will be a different comp - quite a few of the regulars can't go and there are loads of new competitors - about 40% are first-timers. Maybe some of them are old


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## newtonbase (Jan 24, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> There's another older guy registered, Andy Nicholls, who posts as "shaky hands" on here. It will be a different comp - quite a few of the regulars can't go and there are loads of new competitors - about 40% are first-timers. Maybe some of them are old



It'll be interesting to see how good all the new guys are. Are they first timers because they are new to cubing or are they taking advantage of a rare Northern competition?


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## mark49152 (Jan 24, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> It'll be interesting to see how good all the new guys are. Are they first timers because they are new to cubing or are they taking advantage of a rare Northern competition?


My guess is a bit of both. It's interesting that the last northern comp in August got half the number of competitors and a smaller proportion of first-timers. Perhaps that one hit the registration limit.



MarcelP said:


> I could not do that even if my life depended on it. Still averaging 4:30.


Have you considered giving it a serious go? Like doing nothing but 5x5 for a few weeks? It's a great puzzle, with so much more to think about. Great for helping look ahead and finger accuracy/control too. I reckon you'd get down to 3:00 in ~100 solves or so and it might help your 3x3 times too.


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## Logiqx (Jan 24, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> Once again, Mike shows how slow turning can get good times. I'm sure when I get 2:45 it looks a lot more frantic than that...



... and not turning at all for what looked like an eternity, lol.



MarcelP said:


> The first 9 solves where very smooth. Even a 16 sec green cross. Very cool. Then you had a +2 (tapped for doing U' with left hand) and than the solves following where without lookahead. You paused betwee F2L and OLL and PLL.. I think you where anxious to get that sub 18? LOL Very cool stuff Mike. And remember... everyone without a sub 18 on camera is a noob



Yup. After eight solves, I'd settled into a nice rhythm of 16.x-17.x which made me think "hey, this is going pretty well". That resulted in me messing up the last 4 solves and like you say, I should have counted that one solve as a +2. It would still would have been 17.95 average so not too shabby!

Mark's suggestion of only doing 4x4 or 5x5 is basically how I got into the bigger events. You will have spells where you feel like you're not improving but the effort will pay off eventually. I think I prefer 5x5 at the moment because the YuXin is such a nice cube and there is only one form of parity.


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## Logiqx (Jan 24, 2016)

Gotta love a PB single on film...3 move x-cross. 






50 HTM = 4.3 TPS

EDIT: It should have been sub-11 but I looked at the timer after OLL and got excited! I usually use MU algs for the U-perm. lol


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## Jason Green (Jan 24, 2016)

Logiqx said:


> Gotta love a PB single on film.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2nB48IibXYY
> 
> ...


Very cool great job! I need to film some more.


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## Logiqx (Jan 24, 2016)

Jason Green said:


> Very cool great job! I need to film some more.



I figure the rate you're improving, I need to pull my finger out and get a bit faster. You're rapidly catching up!


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## Jason Green (Jan 24, 2016)

Logiqx said:


> I figure the rate you're improving, I need to pull my finger out and get a bit faster. You're rapidly catching up!


It doesn't feel as rapid anymore, but at least there is still movement. I think I'm fairly legitimately sub 25... barely now. I like noticing other little improvements besides just PBs. The other night I had three 19.x in a row, I don't think I ever had back to back sub 20 even. And then yesterday I had a 19 with a N Perm which have been one of my worst.


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## Logiqx (Jan 24, 2016)

Jason Green said:


> It doesn't feel as rapid anymore, but at least there is still movement. I think I'm fairly legitimately sub 25... barely now. I like noticing other little improvements besides just PBs. The other night I had three 19.x in a row, I don't think I ever had back to back sub 20 even. And then yesterday I had a 19 with a N Perm which have been one of my worst.



I remember the exact same thing myself when I was around the 25 second mark. Sub-20 solves including less favourable LL cases were very satisfying. Yesterday I experienced a pop which had resulted in a similar type of satisfaction. An edge dropped into my lap during OLL and I just about kept the cube from crumbling. I was pretty happy with a 22.x after re-assembling the cube and finishing the solve.


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## h2f (Jan 24, 2016)

Logiqx said:


> Gotta love a PB single on film...3 move x-cross.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2nB48IibXYY
> 
> ...



Nice solve. 

I must learn U perm with M slices (I know them from different angle but I dont use them).


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## mafergut (Jan 24, 2016)

h2f said:


> Nice solve.
> 
> I must learn U perm with M slices (I know them from different angle but I dont use them).



Yeah, really nice solve. That was more than 1.5sec faster than my PB full step and it could have been faster PLL. Right now I'm really not improving at all due to time devoted to other puzzles but I'm having a lot of fun learning skewb and pyra. By the way, I just ordered a Yuxin timer and mat. I hope it's fully compatible with Stackmat Pro and I can make it work with csTimer. It was so much cheaper than the Stackmat Pro (less than $20 in zcube). I also got with it the new Cyclone Boys Pyra. It was so cheap that I decided to try it out. If it's not good I'll get a Moyu or Qiyi anyway...

I don't have any 3x3 PBs but I had an OH PB single, my 1st sub-30, with a 29.51 yesterday, while warming up for the OH scrambles in the Weekly Comp. And today a 10.01 skewb Ao5, which is not bad for only some days of practise and using Sarah's beginners mostly.

Ah, by the way, I tried the Thunderclap and I love it. Not sure still if it will replace my main... because right now I don't even know what my main is. So confused...


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## muchacho (Jan 24, 2016)

Logiqx said:


> Gotta love a PB single on film...3 move x-cross.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2nB48IibXYY



Good solve, and good video!

____
4x4 parity algs: learned 
4x4 average: 3:15 
_


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## h2f (Jan 24, 2016)

mafergut said:


> Ah, by the way, I tried the Thunderclap and I love it. Not sure still if it will replace my main... because right now I don't even know what my main is. So confused...



I like Thunderclap. It replaced my aolong v1. But I wonder how good GuoGuan is? But earlier I think I will order sq-1 from Mofangee. I really liked that puzzle.


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## newtonbase (Jan 24, 2016)

There's so many interesting new puzzles out at the moment. I'd usually buy them all but it's a bit of a waste of money if they have little chance of being a main. I'll see what I can get to sample at the comp next weekend to reduce my wish list. Pretty happy with most of my puzzles but I'd like a really good 4x4.


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## mafergut (Jan 24, 2016)

h2f said:


> I like Thunderclap. It replaced my aolong v1. But I wonder how good GuoGuan is? But earlier I think I will order sq-1 from Mofangee. I really liked that puzzle.



I think the GuoGuan Yuexiao is arguably the best cube in the market right now but... that's in case you like the Meiying. I have a Meying and it's a bit too uncontrollable and fast for me. They say Yuexiao is more controllable. I'll probably end up buying one  But that's not gonna make me sub-20 and beyond. I'm still waiting for my QiYi SQ-1 to arrive as well. I don't know how to solve it yet 



newtonbase said:


> There's so many interesting new puzzles out at the moment. I'd usually buy them all but it's a bit of a waste of money if they have little chance of being a main. I'll see what I can get to sample at the comp next weekend to reduce my wish list. Pretty happy with most of my puzzles but I'd like a really good 4x4.



What 4x4 do you have now? There are lots of great 4x4s in the market at good price now. I have an AoSu but right now I would probably get a CB G4, a Yuxin (the good one, not the Lion) the YJ Yusu or maybe even the new YJ GuanSu ($4 at Lightake, that's a ripoff!) but for sure not the Congs Meiyu (it seems a failure to me with that mechanism, too prone to locking).


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## newtonbase (Jan 24, 2016)

Just wrote a lengthy response and lost it by pressing the wrong button. Briefly, I have the Aosu, CB and Yuxin but feel there should be something better. Also, I suck at Pyraminx and last comp result looks like a fluke so I'm not wasting my practice time if I have no chance of a PB.


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## mark49152 (Jan 25, 2016)

Logiqx said:


> I think I prefer 5x5 at the moment because the YuXin is such a nice cube and there is only one form of parity.


I do like 4x4 but there's more luck in it, as parities can make or break smaller averages, as in competition. It's so frustrating to get a bad comp average because you got four double parities. On 5x5 it makes much less difference because as long as you avoid ending up with a checker tredge, parity on the L2E doesn't take much longer to sort out than non-parity cases. And there's just that bit more depth to 5x5 so it's more fun.

Also I agree the cubes are better. Both Yuxin and Aochuang are great. For 4x4, Aosu is the only one I don't find locky or hampered by poor corner cutting, but the turning is heavy and it tires my hands out.


----------



## Jason Green (Jan 25, 2016)

I wanted to get at least a sub 23 average of 5 on cam, and I got this 21.84. I was looking accidentally at the ao12 column and didn't realize I had this until a couple more solves.  Two sub 20s also. 








Spoiler



Generated By csTimer on 2016-1-24
avg of 5: 21.84

Time List:
1. 23.78 R2 U2 R2 F' D2 F' D2 B2 D2 B L' B D U' B' D L B2 L' R' 
2. 21.99 L2 D' B2 D' U' B2 L2 F2 L' F' D F2 U' B R2 D R F' 
3. (19.62) D2 B2 L2 B2 D L2 U B2 F2 R2 B' L2 U' R D2 B L' D U F U2 
4. (24.14) L2 D B2 L2 D' R2 U F2 R2 B U2 L2 R' B' L' U R2 F' D' 
5. 19.75 U' L U2 B2 D2 B U F2 R2 F U2 F U2 R2 F' U2 R2 F' L


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## Logiqx (Jan 25, 2016)

Jason Green said:


> I wanted to get at least a sub 23 average of 5 on cam, and I got this 21.84. I was looking accidentally at the ao12 column and didn't realize I had this until a couple more solves.  Two sub 20s also.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bSM1bjmBm8c
> 
> ...


Cool. Good solves. 

Sent from my GT-I9305 using Tapatalk


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## h2f (Jan 25, 2016)

Jason Green said:


> I wanted to get at least a sub 23 average of 5 on cam, and I got this 21.84. I was looking accidentally at the ao12 column and didn't realize I had this until a couple more solves.  Two sub 20s also.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bSM1bjmBm8c
> 
> ...



Sub-20 ao5 and ao12 very soon.


----------



## Jason Green (Jan 25, 2016)

Thanks guys! Your confidence in my improvement makes me better.


----------



## moralsh (Jan 25, 2016)

Wow, so many messages.

@Jason: almost there, I think it took me more time to get to low 20s, keep it up!

@Mike: Awesome solve, I only use the R U Uperms for OH, I don't think I have fingertricks for them 2H, wouldn't happen to me 

@mafergut: Last time I focused solely on 3x3 was summer 2014 IIRC, I have improved constantly since then just by practicing other (related) events, don't worry at all if you are enjoying other events

right now I'm into 5x5, 7x7 and a bit of 3BLD in the little time I have, I'd like official averages/means in the comp I have at the end of february cutoffs will be nice so I should make it

2:21 and 7:40 are my PBs on 5x and 7x. Averages are a bit higher (2:4x and 8:3x)


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## muchacho (Jan 25, 2016)

Jason Green said:


> 21.84 ao5


Well done, it even looks easy.

Your stickers look older than 1 month, what have you done to them?


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## Jason Green (Jan 25, 2016)

muchacho said:


> Well done, it even looks easy.
> 
> Your stickers look older than 1 month, what have you done to them?


I have some more on the way from thecubicle with Marcel's color scheme.


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## muchacho (Jan 25, 2016)

Similar colors I suppose... is this one? http://thecubicle.us/stickers_share.php?public_id=16556


_Those green and orange colors seem pretty similar to my eyes_


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## Logiqx (Jan 25, 2016)

muchacho said:


> Your stickers look older than 1 month, what have you done to them?



Nails need to be kept short for some types of sticker.


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## MarcelP (Jan 25, 2016)

Logiqx said:


> Gotta love a PB single on film...3 move x-cross.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Whoooaaa and full step. You are doing something right with practicing  Cool.



mark49152 said:


> Have you considered giving it a serious go? Like doing nothing but 5x5 for a few weeks? It's a great puzzle, with so much more to think about. Great for helping look ahead and finger accuracy/control too. I reckon you'd get down to 3:00 in ~100 solves or so and it might help your 3x3 times too.



I get bored after 5 solves or so. I do 5X5 while watching TV. Only slow relaxing solves  I have no wish of becoming fast in anything other than 3X3. Focusing on 5X5 would definatly help 



Jason Green said:


> I have some more on the way from thecubicle with Marcel's color scheme.



And these are the best. You will not be disappointed!  Btw, nice average! You will be faster than me in no time. I took me waaay long to achieve your results.


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## mafergut (Jan 25, 2016)

Jason Green said:


> I wanted to get at least a sub 23 average of 5 on cam, and I got this 21.84. I was looking accidentally at the ao12 column and didn't realize I had this until a couple more solves.  Two sub 20s also.



Very nice solves indeed. I told you, you're catching up really fast. I'm gonna need a GuoGuan YueXiao to keep up... just kidding, of course.

Also, seeing your Stackmat Pro I'm starting to regret having compulsively ordered a Yuxin timer and mat this weeked seeing how cheap it was on zcube. Today I just watched Cubeologist review of the Yuxin timer and he says it has some problems with sensitivity of the touch pads  He also could not make it work with csTimer but I see that you are inputting the times by hand, so I assume you couldn't make it work with Stackmat Pro either. That will not stop me from trying, though. But I would not like those 15 bucks to go to waste and have to buy a Speedstacks afterwards  I'm not planning on going to a comp any time soon but I bought it just to have an idea of how worse my times will actually be with a timer, properly picking up and dropping. With that I fear maybe you will be already much, much closer to my times


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## Logiqx (Jan 25, 2016)

MarcelP said:


> Whoooaaa and full step. You are doing something right with practicing  Cool.



I'm not going to call it proper full step since I skipped an F2L pair. Whilst solving what I thought was the third pair, I realised that the back left pair had already been solved. 

Still... requiring 50 moves isn't crazy lucky.


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## muchacho (Jan 25, 2016)

I'm getting closer to 3 minutes in 4x4 so I think I'm going to register for that event at my next comp, last year cut off time was 2:45.

One question, if one of those small internal pieces pops, do I have to put it back before finishing the solve? I hope not.


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## moralsh (Jan 25, 2016)

muchacho said:


> I'm getting closer to 3 minutes in 4x4 so I think I'm going to register for that event at my next comp, last year cut off time was 2:45.
> 
> One question, if one of those small internal pieces pops, do I have to put it back before finishing the solve? I hope not.



Per 5b5 it is considered solved, internal pieces do not count and 1 center or 1 side of a corner are also permited


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## muchacho (Jan 25, 2016)

Thanks, an edge or a center also pops sometimes, but it does not feel like a great idea to try to finish without putting one of them back... I've tried


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## Jason Green (Jan 25, 2016)

Good luck with the Yuxin timer. I didn't get mine working with cstimer yet but I may try some more. If sensitivity is a little off it might not be that bad (stackmat is really good). Using the mat was not too big of an effect on my times once I got a little used to it. I do some practice with and some without now.


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## mafergut (Jan 25, 2016)

Jason Green said:


> Good luck with the Yuxin timer. I didn't get mine working with cstimer yet but I may try some more. If sensitivity is a little off it might not be that bad (stackmat is really good). Using the mat was not too big of an effect on my times once I got a little used to it. I do some practice with and some without now.



I will tell you guys here as soon as I get in on the mail and can have some time to test it. For now I just use the space bar so, I'm sure that my times would be at least .2 to .5 slower than yours just because of this.

Today I finally did my first back-to-back Ao100+ in a long, long time. Last one recorded was from October. Today I did a 125-solve sessions in one sitting. I like to do just a bit over 100 so that I can roll the Ao100 for a while, as warm-up solves are usually slower.

Looks like I have not improved during these 3 months but I haven't lost ability as I thought I had, so that's good news . Nice Ao5 of 16.60 (I think it's top 5), decent but not great Ao12 of 18.11 and sub-20 Ao50 (19.32), Ao100 (19.58) and overall (19.94), even with warm-up times and all and not removing a single DNF / bad solve.

In fact I think I just beat my record for 10 best times in a session like this with 6 sub-15 and almost 10 sub-16 times (the 10th is a 16.00 ). Exactly 50% of sub-20 solves but I still get too many 20-21s and too few 18-19s to consider myself globally sub-20 yet. All with my old YJ Chilong. Histogram of the session goes like this:

14: XXXXXX 6
15: XXX 3
16: XXXXXXXXXX 10
17: XXXXXXXXXXXXX 13
18: XXXXXXXXXXX 11
19: XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX 20
20: XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX 22
21: XXXXXXXXXXXXXX 14
22: XXXXXXXXX 9
23: XXXXXXXX 8
24: XX 2
25: XXX 3
26: X 1
27: X 1
28: X 1
DNFs: 1


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## muchacho (Jan 25, 2016)

Once you improve slowly, slower than before, it may feel like you don't improve at all, but it may just be a feeling.

That ao100 is enough to say you are sub-20, at least I would, especially since with a Thunderclap you would be 1 second faster


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## mafergut (Jan 25, 2016)

muchacho said:


> Once you improve slowly, slower than before, it may feel like you don't improve at all, but it may just be a feeling.
> 
> That ao100 is enough to say you are sub-20, at least I would, especially since with a Thunderclap you would be 1 second faster



I'll do another one with my Thunderclap as soon as I can and let you know the results


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## h2f (Jan 25, 2016)

Nice times. Looks really fine!

I did today only ao50 and it was 20.6x with low 15.


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## mafergut (Jan 25, 2016)

h2f said:


> Nice times. Looks really fine!
> 
> I did today only ao50 and it was 20.6x with low 15.



I was now doing some untimed solves focusing on lookahead and I did like 3 solves in a row that seemed to have pretty good lookahead so I decided to go back to the timer. Fourth timed solve and I got a 13.67 full step, best solve of the day  I think the main difference between my good and bad solves most of the time lies on whether I can do a good cross-to-f2l transition or not. If I can, then all the f2l seems to flow nicely, if not it's like I cannot see what I'm doing for most of the solve.

Reconstruction:

1. 13.67 D2 L U B2 R B2 R' D' U2 F2 L2 B D2 F2 U2 B' U2 L2 B2 L'

x2 // Inspection
R U F2 L D' // Cross (5/56)
R' U R // F2L#1 (8/56)
U2 R U' R' U R U R' // F2L#2 (16/56)
U L U' L' // F2L#3 (20/56)
U' L' U L y' U R U' R // F2L#4 (28/56)
U2 R' F R F' R' F R F' R U R' U' R U R' // OLL (44/56), awful alg for this case, I know I should change it 
U' y' U-perm // PLL (56/56)

TPS = 56 / 13.67 = 4,09 // I cannot get much faster than this


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## muchacho (Jan 25, 2016)

Me too, especially between the first and second block, if I know where the piece that goes under the other center is it usually flows ok, but if I have to search for it the second block (and usually the rest of the solve) is quite choppy and slow.


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## EvilGnome6 (Jan 25, 2016)

mafergut said:


> U2 R' F R F' R' F R F' R U R' U' R U R' // OLL (44/56), awful alg for this case, I know I should change it



My algorithm for this case:

(R'U'RU')R'U2R F(RUR'U'F') 

Which is Anti-Sune followed by a T.


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## h2f (Jan 25, 2016)

Awsome. I think my good solves have similiar feature. If my transition to f2l is good um 16 or 18. With bad oll or PLL recognition low 20. With all bad around 25.

patataj patataj patataj


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## LL Cool Skip (Jan 25, 2016)

mafergut said:


> U2 R' F R F' R' F R F' R U R' U' R U R' // OLL (44/56), awful alg for this case, I know I should change it



Good alg for OLLCP if you recognize the no-swap. Otherwise, I like the alg that EvilGnome6 uses for OLL. Especially for OH.


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## moralsh (Jan 25, 2016)

I use the same as mafergut for that case and sune+t for the mirror, now I now one more thing I can do


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## Lid (Jan 25, 2016)

That for OH lol no pls, I use these for OH:
L' U L U2 L' U' y' L' U L U F 
z' U L' U' L2 U L x' U L' U' L' F'


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## Jason Green (Jan 25, 2016)

I ordered a $6 46mm cube, just to get free shipping with an order of stickering supplies. I figured it might be easier to do some of the one handed stuff with my short fingers.


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## LL Cool Skip (Jan 25, 2016)

Lid said:


> That for OH lol no pls, I use these for OH:
> L' U L U2 L' U' y' L' U L U F
> z' U L' U' L2 U L x' U L' U' L' F'



I also do these, but more like this: R U' R' U2 R U y R U' R' U' F' ; R' U R U2 R' U' y L' U L U F
Maybe I should try your execution for OH


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## mafergut (Jan 25, 2016)

EvilGnome6 said:


> My algorithm for this case:
> 
> (R'U'RU')R'U2R F(RUR'U'F')
> 
> Which is Anti-Sune followed by a T.



I usually can't tell from that anti-sune and what they call "back Sune" or a sune from the back 
And for the mirror case you do a Sune + FRUR'U'F?


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## h2f (Jan 25, 2016)

I use the same as mafergut but I'm not happy with them. Others looks much better. Thanks guys I'll check them.

On the other hand - I just did a one attempt for weekly comp - Im too tired for more. It would be a success but I've memoed a flipped edge wrong. I thought it was fillped, so I've flipped it but it wasnt. So I've finished with two flipped edges. Memo was extra safe (12 minutes). Execution too - I hate my ss and I cant wait I will fix my broken Aochuang. Better next time.


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## EvilGnome6 (Jan 25, 2016)

mafergut said:


> And for the mirror case you do a Sune + FRUR'U'F?



Yep. It makes for an easy pair of algorithms to remember.


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## ryuusei86 (Jan 25, 2016)

Sorry to interrupt, but I'm just checking in here after being referred over from my intro thread. I'm newly back into Rubik's cubes but am old enough to remember the original ones from the early 1980s. I loved those things! So I just had to go and buy a couple. I don't have much confidence that I will ever be particularly fast at solving them, but I do find it fun and relaxing to do so.

The first hurdle is going to be memorizing even the beginners' algorithms. I can tell that it needs to go into muscle memory as opposed to "memorizing letters" if that makes any sense. I've been solving the top layer by inspection for both 2x2 and 3x3, without using any algorithms per se, which may or may not be a good idea.

Anyway, I'll keep lurking here as I enjoy reading your discussions, insofar as I can understand them.


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## Jason Green (Jan 25, 2016)

ryuusei86 said:


> Sorry to interrupt, but I'm just checking in here after being referred over from my intro thread. I'm newly back into Rubik's cubes but am old enough to remember the original ones from the early 1980s. I loved those things! So I just had to go and buy a couple. I don't have much confidence that I will ever be particularly fast at solving them, but I do find it fun and relaxing to do so.
> 
> The first hurdle is going to be memorizing even the beginners' algorithms. I can tell that it needs to go into muscle memory as opposed to "memorizing letters" if that makes any sense. I've been solving the top layer by inspection for both 2x2 and 3x3, without using any algorithms per se, which may or may not be a good idea.
> 
> Anyway, I'll keep lurking here as I enjoy reading your discussions, insofar as I can understand them.


I'm down to about a 25 second average and I can't understand 2/3 of what these guys talk about.  Mainly because I only do 3x3 right now. 

You can get pretty fast if you practice, I'm faster than I would have dreamed several months ago.

Personally I would just recommend learning CFOP or Roux as opposed to beginners. CFOP just does not seem much harder to me and you will be learning more useful algs (I've heard Roux is easy but don't know it). 

Welcome!


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## Jason Green (Jan 25, 2016)

I see you're from Texas. Where at? I'm in Fort Worth.


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## cubesp (Jan 25, 2016)

Welcome R86!
I find it relaxing too. But it is one of my major issues now !! I'd like "do it", not "do it fast" !! ;-) 

By the way, I think muscle memory is a must. I'm not so fast, I started one year ago, I'm on 30 secs, and now I'm not able to write (directly) algs that I use.
I can't figure out someone really fast acting in terms of letters.
Eugenio


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## newtonbase (Jan 25, 2016)

ryuusei86 said:


> Sorry to interrupt, but I'm just checking in here after being referred over from my intro thread. I'm newly back into Rubik's cubes but am old enough to remember the original ones from the early 1980s. I loved those things! So I just had to go and buy a couple. I don't have much confidence that I will ever be particularly fast at solving them, but I do find it fun and relaxing to do so.
> 
> The first hurdle is going to be memorizing even the beginners' algorithms. I can tell that it needs to go into muscle memory as opposed to "memorizing letters" if that makes any sense. I've been solving the top layer by inspection for both 2x2 and 3x3, without using any algorithms per se, which may or may not be a good idea.
> 
> Anyway, I'll keep lurking here as I enjoy reading your discussions, insofar as I can understand them.



Glad you made it here R86. The terminology is baffling to start with but it'll sink in eventually. The wiki part of the site is useful and we'll be happy to translate. 

If you decide to go with CFOP as a method I'd strongly recommend starting with your cross on the bottom and learning 4 look last layer asap - that's Orient edges, orient corners, permute corners then permute edges. Also, whatever method you choose, try to be colour neutral as it's far easier to start like that than learn it later on.


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## ryuusei86 (Jan 25, 2016)

Jason Green said:


> I see you're from Texas. Where at? I'm in Fort Worth.


I moved down to College Station from Minnesota about eight months ago. My friends in Austin like to remind me that I'm in Enemy Territory. 

I will research this CFOP thing of which several of you speak. I am already practicing being color-neutral, although (speaking of being old) I'm having a bit of trouble telling white from yellow and/or red from orange in dim light, so I'm going to resticker my cube once my next package comes in. I can also see why placing the first cross on the bottom will save time in the long run.

Oh, and my addictive personality is kicking in so I see myself buying over 9000 cubes in the near future, but that's another topic.


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## SenorJuan (Jan 26, 2016)

My personal opinion on colour-neutrality is it's not really worth it for old-uns like us, especially as you haven't (yet) expressed desires to be really fast. Sticking to one starting colour shortens the learning curve.
Re. the colour similarity problem, fluoro orange and flat red are a good choice, and bright yellow (or fluoro) opposite white. But fluoro green is probably not needed, and you may confuse it with fluoro yellow.
Re. the dim light: there's some discussion 3 months ago in this thread about lighting. Summary: good lighting is essential.


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## Jason Green (Jan 26, 2016)

If someone would have suggested color neutral very early on for me I might have tried it, I doubt I would have stuck with it. I am very NOT color neutral now and it's low on my order to learn it. I'd rather be much faster at white cross for now.


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## Jason Green (Jan 26, 2016)

ryuusei86 said:


> I moved down to College Station from Minnesota about eight months ago. My friends in Austin like to remind me that I'm in Enemy Territory.
> 
> I will research this CFOP thing of which several of you speak. I am already practicing being color-neutral, although (speaking of being old) I'm having a bit of trouble telling white from yellow and/or red from orange in dim light, so I'm going to resticker my cube once my next package comes in. I can also see why placing the first cross on the bottom will save time in the long run.
> 
> Oh, and my addictive personality is kicking in so I see myself buying over 9000 cubes in the near future, but that's another topic.


I learned primarily from badmephisto YouTube videos and cheat sheet. I recommend the first 7:35 of this video, and links in the description. 

https://youtu.be/ad2NdgoAg8I


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## MarcelP (Jan 26, 2016)

ryuusei86 said:


> Sorry to interrupt, but I'm just checking in here after being referred over from my intro thread.



Welcome! You will fit right in here. 



SenorJuan said:


> My personal opinion on colour-neutrality is it's not really worth it for old-uns like us, especially as you haven't (yet) expressed desires to be really fast. Sticking to one starting colour shortens the learning curve.



I disagree. I think if you start out CN it will be just as easy as starting one color. The principles are the same. It is just different approach from the start. And when you do not really want to be really fast, that is perfect to be practicing CN. CN is more fun. More options to an easy start. The easier the start, the better the lookahead, the better the times.



Jason Green said:


> If someone would have suggested color neutral very early on for me I might have tried it, I doubt I would have stuck with it. I am very NOT color neutral now and it's low on my order to learn it. I'd rather be much faster at white cross for now.



I changed to CN after cubing for a year. I was sub 30 when I made the switch. It took me 3 months to get my normal times back with CN.


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## Jason Green (Jan 26, 2016)

I barely missed graduation from the race to sub 25 (had two weeks under and got 25.02 this week). I wanted to graduate, but this will give me some more time before jumping in the race to sub 20!


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## ryuusei86 (Jan 26, 2016)

Those badmephisto videos are awesome. Of course I can't see yet why every one of those 41 F2L algorithms works, but I certainly do see the logic of combining the solution of both layers into one step. And I can see how each of those algorithms makes sense in principle.

It's late here, so I'll keep working on 3x3x3 and 2x2x2 solves. I have a strong suspicion that knowing how to solve a 2x2 well can only help in learning to solve a 3x3 well, except for that parity thing that I seem to get about 75% of the time.


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## Jason Green (Jan 26, 2016)

ryuusei86 said:


> Those badmephisto videos are awesome. Of course I can't see yet why every one of those 41 F2L algorithms works, but I certainly do see the logic of combining the solution of both layers into one step. And I can see how each of those algorithms makes sense in principle.
> 
> It's late here, so I'll keep working on 3x3x3 and 2x2x2 solves. I have a strong suspicion that knowing how to solve a 2x2 well can only help in learning to solve a 3x3 well, except for that parity thing that I seem to get about 75% of the time.


I learned F2L completely intuitively until I was probably 35 seconds. By that I mean I would just get both pieces on top and departed (usually) and then figure out how to pair them up from there. There are some cases now that are more like an alg to me than intuition.


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## h2f (Jan 26, 2016)

Hi R86. Good luck in learning new stuff.


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## moralsh (Jan 26, 2016)

h2f said:


> I use the same as mafergut but I'm not happy with them. Others looks much better. Thanks guys I'll check them.
> 
> On the other hand - I just did a one attempt for weekly comp - Im too tired for more. It would be a success but I've memoed a flipped edge wrong. I thought it was fillped, so I've flipped it but it wasnt. So I've finished with two flipped edges. Memo was extra safe (12 minutes). Execution too - I hate my ss and I cant wait I will fix my broken Aochuang. Better next time.


My today attempt


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## muchacho (Jan 26, 2016)

Welcome R86! If you don't want to learn many algs you can try Roux, it's fun and 9 algs are enough to be almost fast.


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## h2f (Jan 26, 2016)

moralsh said:


> My today attempt
> 
> http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160126/2e2d548ab8be52e99885ecce74fdf5d2.jpg



Centers are fine.  Better next time. In big blindes even if you dnfed you're closer to a success next time.


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## mafergut (Jan 26, 2016)

ryuusei86 said:


> Sorry to interrupt, but I'm just checking in here after being referred over from my intro thread. I'm newly back into Rubik's cubes but am old enough to remember the original ones from the early 1980s. I loved those things! So I just had to go and buy a couple. I don't have much confidence that I will ever be particularly fast at solving them, but I do find it fun and relaxing to do so.
> 
> The first hurdle is going to be memorizing even the beginners' algorithms. I can tell that it needs to go into muscle memory as opposed to "memorizing letters" if that makes any sense. I've been solving the top layer by inspection for both 2x2 and 3x3, without using any algorithms per se, which may or may not be a good idea.
> 
> Anyway, I'll keep lurking here as I enjoy reading your discussions, insofar as I can understand them.



Welcome to this thread! I think everyone of us started more or less the same and then we all wanted to get just a bit faster... and faster. Same with buying cubes, I just wanted to try a new one, and another one... Only counting 3x3s I think I have more than 15 different speedcubes, plus 3 2x2s, a couple 4x4... a skewb, a pyraminx, a megaminx... and some non-WCA puzzles as well 

Regarding the method, even though I'm a CFOP solver, if I were you I would also try Roux early on. It's a lot of fun and it requires very few algs, as muchacho has already told you. I would not start with ZZ, though, as the edge orientation thing is a bit difficult to grasp until you have a little more control on how a 3x3 works.



Jason Green said:


> I barely missed graduation from the race to sub 25 (had two weeks under and got 25.02 this week). I wanted to graduate, but this will give me some more time before jumping in the race to sub 20!



I posted a comment for you in the RTS30-25 thread but I hope you don't mind me talking about it too on this one. What a pity! It was the exact same .02 from graduating I had on RTS20 and I thought exactly the same: It will just give me some more time to get a bit better and be successful next time around. I will have to graduate this week from the sub-25 race and I plan on recording a video of the Ao12, as the rules recommend you do as an option / bonus. Maybe my camera nerves will kick in big time and I will also fail to graduate from sub-25, who knows


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## muchacho (Jan 26, 2016)

Oh, so I have a (very very small) chance of graduating in the race to sub-25 before you Jason? I'm not gonna make it (I'm at 26-27 seconds), but I'll try, hope you don't mind 

Once I graduate I'll also try to race to sub-30 / sub-25 not using blue-white for my first block, it will be a good motivation to practice other blocks.


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## Jason Green (Jan 26, 2016)

I didn't know you had a .02 miss also. That's crazy. When I graduated sub 30 I was averaging 27 probably. Right now I'm barely under 25 so I still get a fair amount of ao12s that go over. 

I don't mind if you beat me muchacho. It's good to have someone close to catch/try to stay ahead of.


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## mafergut (Jan 26, 2016)

Jason Green said:


> I didn't know you had a .02 miss also. That's crazy. When I graduated sub 30 I was averaging 27 probably. Right now I'm barely under 25 so I still get a fair amount of ao12s that go over.
> 
> I don't mind if you beat me muchacho. It's good to have someone close to catch/try to stay ahead of.



Just got a very nice 18.80 Ao12 in my Race to Sub-20 with a 13.25 PLL skip, which is in my top 10. And without the need to use a Thunderclap, just my old Chilong


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## muchacho (Jan 26, 2016)

Congrats, 2 out of 3 like in sub-25 race, right? Just don't try to record also the sub-20 ao12 attempt, for me recording adds like 1 second and DNFs are much more frequent.


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## mafergut (Jan 26, 2016)

muchacho said:


> Congrats, 2 out of 3 like in sub-25 race, right? Just don't try to record also the sub-20 ao12 attempt, for me recording adds like 1 second and DNFs are much more frequent.



Thanks! Yes, it's 2 out of three already. I definitely don't plan on recording the 3rd attempt. As you say, that would be to call for total failure of the average and I don't want to spoil graduation a second time. For the sub-25 race I think I have margin enough that I can record it and still pull it off, even if with a bit worse times.


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## ryuusei86 (Jan 26, 2016)

Thanks for the support, everyone! I've been checking out the Roux and (as I think you call it) Friedrich methods, and while I think the Roux method has a lot going for it (elegance and logic being foremost), I think it's just a bridge too far for me at this point. What I think I'll do is practice the beginners' method for now, with the plan being to learn how to solve the middle layer and lower edges at the same time in the short run, and learning to solve the upper layer more quickly in the long run. To me, this sounds a lot like learning to draw: one has to draw about 1000 terrible pictures before being able to draw anything decent, but there is no way to skip drawing those 1000 terrible pictures.

I think I should do pretty much the same as what I see others doing around here, which is as many 3x3 solves per day as I can, even keeping track of my times. I see nothing wrong with learning just how bad my times are. Eventually I'll memorize the beginners' algorithms and, so I hope, over time begin to understand WHY they work. My job as an educator teaches me that there is no hope of memorizing those 40-odd F2L algorithms without understanding how and why they work.

Eventually, I'll be in a place where I can decide better whether the Roux method is for me or not. I will try to keep an open mind as much as possible in the meantime though.


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## moralsh (Jan 26, 2016)

h2f said:


> Centers are fine.  Better next time. In big blindes even if you dnfed you're closer to a success next time.



Yeah, felt like a success  Problem was wings execution most probably, memo was solid. I'll keep practicing after this weekend comp. Maybe I should join Blind WC to force myself to practice a bit more.

@ryuusei86 Welcome! start learning F2L whenever you feel like it, I never did any sub 2 with beginners because I started learning F2L right away after my first few successes. learn the easy cases (R U R' and the like and how to set up to that case, you'll be slower for a little while, but it kicks in really fast.


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## h2f (Jan 26, 2016)

moralsh said:


> Yeah, felt like a success  Problem was wings execution most probably, memo was solid. I'll keep practicing after this weekend comp. Maybe I should join Blind WC to force myself to practice a bit more.



It helps a lot to do WC. I like doing 4bld but 5bld is much harder. If didnt take part in WC I would never practice 5bld. I mean 3 solves per week is a kind of practice. After a year with it I feel much comfortable with 5bld. That's why Im going to start 6bld in WC - just to start regular tries of solves.


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## SenorJuan (Jan 26, 2016)

Quote:R86:".... there is no hope of memorizing those 40-odd F2L algorithms without understanding how and why they work."
You may be surprised how easy they can be learnt - some have a nice order and symmetrical feel to them, some are fairly intuitive, which, as you say, does help; some are dead easy (4 of them, especially), and of course many are reflectional mirrors of another move, so learning one may help learn the other.
One downside is they only solve for the one 'slot', so you've got to rotate the cube a lot, or learn every algorithm in it's 'opposite corner' variant, too.
And they don't make use of empty slots, and they don't cater for situations where one of the pair is on the last (top) layer and the other is in a different slot. So you would need to know some of the sub-algs to sort out those cases. Which brings up 'intuitive' solving, where you will end up knowing lots of sub-algs, which you can combine to give some very flexible solutions, low in move-count, with few cube rotations.
I think knowing 'intuitive' slot-solving well, combined with some algorithms for difficult cases and clever tricks will be the ultimate slot-solving arsenal.


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## Jason Green (Jan 26, 2016)

Question on thecubicle.us... have any of you had any extra slow orders, or any tips getting them moving? I placed my first order on the 19th. I asked a question about changing the order on the 20th via the webform, and never got a reply. The order went into preparing for shipment on the 22nd, but it has been there since. The website says orders that have been more than 3 days will have a "Bump" button, but I do not have one. I have also sent two follow up emails with the order number, but have not received a reply.

I know this is a great website and I really love it, but I'm experiencing some disappointment with my first order after being used to Amazon Prime! When I decided to order my stackmat I had it the next day with free delivery.


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## Lid (Jan 26, 2016)

Did a semi-big Sq-1 session today:
number of times: 58/58
best time: 12.13, worst time: 28.41

best avg5: 17.46 (σ = 1.54) : 17.34, 15.99, (15.64), 19.06, (19.92)
best avg12: 18.95 (σ = 2.22) : 15.38, 19.41, 21.74[p], (22.64), 22.43[p], 20.41[p], 16.23, 19.21, 18.47[p], (12.13), 18.48, 17.71[p]
best avg50: 20.41 (σ = 2.21)
session avg: 20.52 (σ = 2.21)

27 were sub20 & 27 had parity. (12: 1, 15: 3, 16: 2, 17: 4, 18: 5, 19: 12, 20: 7, 21: 6, 22: 9, 23: 3, 24: 1, 25: 2, 26: 2, 28: 1, so all over but most 19s)

The 12.13 only had a CO skip, (3, -4) / (4, -2) / (2, -1) / (-5, -5) / (-3, 0) / (6, -1) / (-3, -3) / (-1, -4) / (4, 0) / (-4, 0) /

edit: on the cubicle, they seem have way too much to do atm, I suggest you try another store if you can, cubedepot is also good.


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## h2f (Jan 26, 2016)

Lid, how fast can one be with this set of algs? http://www.kungfoomanchu.com/guides/andy-klise-square-1.pdf


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## Jason Green (Jan 26, 2016)

Thanks Lid, I guess since I can't get a response to change the orders I'll just have to wait. Back in the 80's I think we called it patience or something... Not sure I never found it that useful.[emoji14]


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## newtonbase (Jan 26, 2016)

2x2 AO12 PB 10.33. Was close to doing the same on 3x3 as well but I lost all ability to find pieces about 3 solves from the end. Pretty sure I spend around 10s looking for an edge piece on one solve.


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## mark49152 (Jan 26, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> 2x2 AO12 PB 10.33. Was close to doing the same on 3x3 as well but I lost all ability to find pieces about 3 solves from the end. Pretty sure I spend around 10s looking for an edge piece on one solve.


Do you have goals for Manchester?


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## ryuusei86 (Jan 26, 2016)

Jason Green said:


> Back in the 80's I think we called it patience or something... Not sure I never found it that useful.


Patience went out the door when the internet came along. 

I'll be the crash test dummy for CubeDepot vs. The Cubicle, as I have an order at The Cubicle at about the same status as Jason Green's. So I just placed an order at CubeDepot for a QiYi Square-1, and budget puzzles (3x3 and 4x4) by Cyclone Boys. I really wanted to try the QiYi Thunderclap that everyone's talking about, but they were out of stock in black. Anyway, if CubeDepot's order comes in before The Cubicle's, that will be interesting. (Where The Cubicle might always have the edge is in the stickers that they offer, but that's another story.)

That Square-1 though. Something about it really fascinates me, although the shape-shifting looks a bit terrifying too....


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## newtonbase (Jan 26, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> Do you have goals for Manchester?



Funnily enough I'm writing them out now. I'll paste into here in a couple of minutes.


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## newtonbase (Jan 26, 2016)

Goals for Manchester

Pyraminx - get close to PBs (I think I fluked last comp)
OH - Sub 1:30 (I don't do OH)
2x2 - sub 10s single, sub 15s average
3x3 - sub 30s single, sub 40s average
4x4 - sub 2:10
5x5 - close to 5 mins, maybe PB
3BLD - don't go home crying

What about you Mark?


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## mark49152 (Jan 27, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> What about you Mark?


I really don't know. In most events I now have official results that I'm pleased with and are close to what I get at home, and I'm improving only slowly at those events even with practice. So there's none where I can say I really should have a better official result than that. I would like a PB in multi. Apart from that, nothing specific, although it would be nice to go home with a few PBs.


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## Jason Green (Jan 27, 2016)

Up until this order I got all my cubes from Amazon. They don't have near everything but did have my Gans 356.


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## newtonbase (Jan 27, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> I really don't know. In most events I now have official results that I'm pleased with and are close to what I get at home, and I'm improving only slowly at those events even with practice. So there's none where I can say I really should have a better official result than that. I would like a PB in multi. Apart from that, nothing specific, although it would be nice to go home with a few PBs.



I'm so much better at 3x3 and 2x2 now that I really should get PBs, except maybe 3x3 single. I haven't practiced much else other than blind but I'm trying not to think about that too much. I'll get it one day. 

What are you going for in multi?


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## mark49152 (Jan 27, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> I'm so much better at 3x3 and 2x2 now that I really should get PBs, except maybe 3x3 single. I haven't practiced much else other than blind but I'm trying not to think about that too much. I'll get it one day.
> 
> What are you going for in multi?


Yeah it's good when you have a clear target like that. I can't even decide what to practise because I have none 

The BLD will come. Have you practised sighted solves? Or practised memo separately? That's what clicked it for me.

For multi, at least 4, maybe more depending how I feel on the day.


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## Lid (Jan 27, 2016)

h2f said:


> Lid, how fast can one be with this set of algs? http://www.kungfoomanchu.com/guides/andy-klise-square-1.pdf





ryuusei86 said:


> That Square-1 though. Something about it really fascinates me, although the shape-shifting looks a bit terrifying too....



If you learn a more advanced cubeshape, I say sub20 if you can turn really fast, if not say 30 to 40s.

ATM I know full cubeshape(64cases), CO(6), EO(7), CP(8), EP(99) + some extra tricks.


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## newtonbase (Jan 27, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> The BLD will come. Have you practised sighted solves? Or practised memo separately? That's what clicked it for me.
> 
> For multi, at least 4, maybe more depending how I feel on the day.



I tend to practice just edges or just corners but I'll give sighted and just memo a go after the comp. I have bookmarked a letter pair generator so will use that. I do get a decent number of succeses but find it hard to get my head in the right place when competing. If they let me lie in bed or sit on the toilet I'm sure I'd nail it. I've decided to go back to the Thunderclap for blind as it's much more stable than the Meiying.


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## mark49152 (Jan 27, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> I tend to practice just edges or just corners but I'll give sighted and just memo a go after the comp. I have bookmarked a letter pair generator so will use that. I do get a decent number of succeses but find it hard to get my head in the right place when competing. If they let me lie in bed or sit on the toilet I'm sure I'd nail it. I've decided to go back to the Thunderclap for blind as it's much more stable than the Meiying.


LOL maybe you can request that and see what they say. Agreed on the Meiying. I did a multi the other day and one cube was Meiying. It was awful - as soon as I got to that cube I had to take extra care. Thunderclap is great but I find it a little too small and that makes me too clumsy for BLD. I prefer my overlubed AoLong.


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## h2f (Jan 27, 2016)

Lid said:


> If you learn a more advanced cubeshape, I say sub20 if you can turn really fast, if not say 30 to 40s.
> 
> ATM I know full cubeshape(64cases), CO(6), EO(7), CP(8), EP(99) + some extra tricks.



Thanks. These 99 cases makes me scary. All I'm going to know is CO (intuition, same as 2x2 with guimond), EO and CP and few EP.


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## MarcelP (Jan 27, 2016)

Jason Green said:


> Question on thecubicle.us... have any of you had any extra slow orders, or any tips getting them moving? I placed my first order on the 19th. I asked a question about changing the order on the 20th via the webform, and never got a reply.



This has been a big issue with them lately. I received my last few orders way later than before. Maybe they do not have enough personel. I never got any replies to emails or webform. I decided not to use them anymore.


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## Jason Green (Jan 27, 2016)

MarcelP said:


> This has been a big issue with them lately. I received my last few orders way later than before. Maybe they do not have enough personel. I never got any replies to emails or webform. I decided not to use them anymore.


Do other places have the custom fitted stickers for all the cubes? I mean I could go look, but I'm about to go to sleep so I figured I'd just ask and have my answer in the morning. 

PB 17.028 tonight. I saw 16 as I was reaching down to stop timer.  That was just on my phone but hey, I'm not picky.


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## h2f (Jan 27, 2016)

Jason Green said:


> Do other places have the custom fitted stickers for all the cubes? I mean I could go look, but I'm about to go to sleep so I figured I'd just ask and have my answer in the morning.
> 
> PB 17.028 tonight. I saw 16 as I was reaching down to stop timer.  That was just on my phone but hey, I'm not picky.



Nice time. 

In Poland theres a Michał Halczuk (yeah - this Halczuk), called Józek (Joseph) who makes great sets of stickers for a lot of cubes. But I dont know if he sells them abroad - he has an account of FB.


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## muchacho (Jan 27, 2016)

I just bought some a4 sheets and cut the stickers myself, probably I won't have to order more in years, even keeping my nails long


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## mafergut (Jan 27, 2016)

Jason Green said:


> Question on thecubicle.us... have any of you had any extra slow orders, or any tips getting them moving?



I've had problems with that too. I know that they contribute to the cubing community and all that but if they are more expensive and don't ship faster either, then, what is left? Customer care? But that seems to be lacking as well lately. I got a defective Guanlong (missing one spring) and I was requesting them to send me the spring, or at least give me free shipping in my next order... I got no replies. I put an order or some screws+springs set for Moyu and some stickers and reminded them of the issue with the cube. They sent my order and a free spare spring but I had to pay for everything else, including the screw+spring set that was intended to fix the cube. The only time I purchased in a Spanish toy shop (my first Zhanchis I bought in 2013) I received a defective one (broken corner), I contacted them and 2 days later I have a new one delivered for free and I could keep the defective one (which I fixed later with a new corner from TheCubicle). See the difference in customer care?

Conclusion, I buy all my puzzles now in lightake, cubezz, etc. They are equally fast right now and even more reliable and with better customer care (I had a shippment on the brink of being re-sent to me at no cost because it was very late and just the day they were going to ship I received the original package and warned them just in time to cancel the new shipment). Only thing I buy from TheCubicle is stickers and things I cannot find anywhere else. I'm sorry but that's my experience and I would like it to be different.


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## h2f (Jan 27, 2016)

@muchacho Looks like you can make a manufacture.

Doese anybody has cat issue? I was doing 5bld in the morning and in the end my cat walked into my room. I knew he likes to lie on laptop so I tried to protect it by hand. And I've made one of last targets twice. It finished with DNF of course.


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## ryuusei86 (Jan 27, 2016)

Well, in my case CubeDepot just curb-stomped (is that how the young people say it today?) The Cubicle. I've already received the e-mail notification that they've shipped my order that I placed last night, which if all goes well, will arrive by Saturday. Meanwhile The Cubicle still notes my January 20 order as "Preparing for Shipment". (To be fair, their order includes a lot of stickers, which I suppose they have to pick out sheets individually.)

As for cats, I keep them out of my room because Rambo loves to chew on computer cables in spite of his innocent appearance. I bet Bella would like it if I took my cubes into the living room to spend some time with them, except she'd probably walk all over me (literally). And when an 18-pound cat walks on you, believe me, you know you've been walked on.


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## Jason Green (Jan 27, 2016)

ryuusei86 said:


> Well, in my case CubeDepot just curb-stomped (is that how the young people say it today?) The Cubicle. I've already received the e-mail notification that they've shipped my order that I placed last night, which if all goes well, will arrive by Saturday. Meanwhile The Cubicle still notes my January 20 order as "Preparing for Shipment". (To be fair, their order includes a lot of stickers, which I suppose they have to pick out sheets individually.)
> 
> As for cats, I keep them out of my room because Rambo loves to chew on computer cables in spite of his innocent appearance. I bet Bella would like it if I took my cubes into the living room to spend some time with them, except she'd probably walk all over me (literally). And when an 18-pound cat walks on you, believe me, you know you've been walked on.


The main thing I need fastest is stickers. My Gans is going to be solid black in another month or so.


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## ryuusei86 (Jan 27, 2016)

You say "solid black," I say "instant solve". 

I should also add that I strongly believe that what I'm seeing in my case (with both CubeDepot and The Cubicle) is the result of being a first-time customer for both. I have no proof, but I believe that pretty much any outfit such as both of them pay particular attention to satisfying first-time customers quickly. This is my second order with The Cubicle and my first order with CubeDepot. Whereas my first order with The Cubicle shipped rather quickly and arrived in a very reasonable time frame.


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## Jason Green (Jan 27, 2016)

This is my first order with the cubicle though.


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## ryuusei86 (Jan 27, 2016)

Well, there goes my theory, such as it was.


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## Jason Green (Jan 27, 2016)

Haha I missed your instant solve joke until just now. 

I am going to email the founders of the cubicle. The probably get tons of that and will not answer either, but I'm going to anyway.


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## ryuusei86 (Jan 27, 2016)

My Cubicle order has just been marked "Shipped", as in I could swear this is within the last hour. Not that I obsessively check such things. 

I asked this question in the one-answer thread, but does anyone know of an online store that offers used cubes? I could swear I ran across one in my travels, but I neglected to bookmark it. If so, it might mean in principle that I could send them anything that didn't work out for me, and at least get a little bit of store credit.


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## Jason Green (Jan 27, 2016)

Oh yeah cats... Only once I think my cat got on my phone and stopped my timer. She knows I don't like her crawling around me when I cube so usually she just stands near and purrs.


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## Jason Green (Jan 28, 2016)

So I'm quite excited, I just got an email from Phil Yu, one of the creators of thecubicle.us! He apologized for the delays and told me several things including:

Yes they got bombarded by the Holidays.
The current space they are in compounded the issue due to the order volume, and they are working on moving to a larger space!
They had to disable the bump feature as it was interfering with some of their packing slip programs (hope is they won't need Bump at all in the future).
The support inbox got cluttered by the Holiday issues also, apologized for not responding sooner.
He hopes they do better in the future!
Personally I love the site, selection, ease of use, and everything else. I am going to have faith they will work out these growing pains and stay with them next time I order. Reading their "About" page it just does not feel like hot air to me, plus a crappy company usually does not become so popular so I think they are trying to do things right. I'll let everyone know in the future how my ordering experiences go.


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## muchacho (Jan 28, 2016)

That's all understable and I'm sure they'll sort it out, but they should have put that text in their home page so they can spent their time in other things that are not answering mails inquiring about the delays. Even if that would temporarily decrease the number of orders (maybe not even a bad thing) maybe it would have caused less long term effects.

I'm probably too used to waiting 5-6 weeks to my orders from lightake or fasttech to see what the big deal this delay issue is.


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## MarcelP (Jan 28, 2016)

muchacho said:


> I'm probably too used to waiting 5-6 weeks to my orders from lightake or fasttech to see what the big deal this delay issue is.



I use cubezz now and they mostly ship in 1 - 2 days and I pay for registered shipping (around $3-4) and receive my package after about 2 weeks. I just received my GuoGuan Yuexiau this week.


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## newtonbase (Jan 28, 2016)

I find Champion's Cube Store to have the fastest delivery of the Asian stores. It's free too.


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## ryuusei86 (Jan 28, 2016)

I agree that there's every reason to give Cubicle the chance to work out their growing pains. From what I've heard so far, they've had some difficulties in shipping speed and in communication, but at least seem to make all their customers whole eventually. I like the review system on their website, and the fact that they even go so far as to let us know how these brand names are pronounced by native Chinese speakers.

On my YouTube journeys, I've come across nerdbubblegum's channel. He seems to be very talented at modding puzzles, even to the point of preferring this hobby over actual speedcubing. In fact he even has a video in which he explains why he doesn't personally prefer speedcubing, although he does like at least knowing how to solve puzzles, in addition to his work in modding. In that video he said a lot of things that I identified with rather strongly.

I feel bad about it because (like nerdbubblegum) I think this community is really awesome and I wish there were some way I could contribute. I could even see myself making YouTube videos, but I can't think of a single thing I could do in those videos that anyone here would find interesting. I certainly don't know my way around a bandsaw.

I will keep thinking about it, and mostly lurk in the meantime. At least I'll try to keep an open mind. For starters, I think at the bare minimum I would like to be able to solve the simpler twisty puzzles, at least efficiently if not quickly, without looking at a cheat sheet. With the 333 puzzles, I will admit that these F2L algorithms have me the most intrigued in terms of efficiency. (EDIT: grammar)


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## SenorJuan (Jan 28, 2016)

Quote:"With the 333 puzzles, I will admit that these F2L algorithms have me the most intrigued in terms of efficiency." 
In terms of move efficiency, there are often quoted guidelines as to how many moves it should take if you 'do it correctly', so you have some measure of how good or bad your technique is. I recall 6.5 moves per slot is considered normal, and 6 or 7 moves for creating the cross. However this doesn't take into account cube rotations, which will slow you down if you perform too many, especially half-turn ones. And there's the ergonomic aspect, too. 8 moves can be faster than 6 if they're more 'turn-friendly'.


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## Selkie (Jan 29, 2016)

Some may recall one of my Christmas goals was to get a sub 14 average of 5 on film. I did not get it over Christmas unfortunately but just managed to get a 13.54 Average. Video to follow a little later guys 

Average of 5: 13.54
1. 13.07 D' L' F D L2 U' F R D' F' B2 L' D2 R' L2 U2 L' U2 D2 L' U2 
2. 14.54 R2 U2 F2 R2 U2 L' F2 L' F2 U2 R2 U B' R2 U L R U2 B2 D' F 
3. 13.02 L2 U2 B2 D' F2 L2 D' L2 D' R2 D F' R' D L2 D' L F L R U2 
4. (17.21) D2 R2 F U2 B' D2 R2 B2 F' D2 F2 U' F L F' L' U' L U R' U2 
5. (12.05) L2 D2 F R2 B F2 U2 B' U2 R2 D2 L' D2 B' L2 B2 F' L2 D R F2


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## mafergut (Jan 29, 2016)

Selkie said:


> Some may recall one of my Christmas goals was to get a sub 14 average of 5 on film. I did not get it over Christmas unfortunately but just managed to get a 13.54 Average. Video to follow a little later guys
> 
> Average of 5: 13.54
> 1. 13.07 D' L' F D L2 U' F R D' F' B2 L' D2 R' L2 U2 L' U2 D2 L' U2
> ...



Wow! Simply... wow! It's an inspiration. I'm not sure I will be able to reach there before old age starts to get in the middle and I actually start becoming slower.


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## Selkie (Jan 29, 2016)

mafergut said:


> Wow! Simply... wow! It's an inspiration. I'm not sure I will be able to reach there before old age starts to get in the middle and I actually start becoming slower.



Thank you  Though my hands are getting slower but really trying to push TPS to the limits is beginning to pay off.

Here it is:-


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## muchacho (Jan 29, 2016)

That's probably considered fast even for young cubers. Caffeine works?


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## Selkie (Jan 29, 2016)

muchacho said:


> That's probably considered fast even for young cubers. Caffeine works?



Oh yes the caffeine definitely helps, together with the silly amounts I am practicing and the complete stubbornness that I will make sub 15 globally


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## h2f (Jan 29, 2016)

Selkie said:


> Thank you  Though my hands are getting slower but really trying to push TPS to the limits is beginning to pay off.
> 
> Here it is:-
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8mxB99FwYOI



Awsome.  Nothing more to say...


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## mafergut (Jan 29, 2016)

Hi Grzegorz (and other BLD solvers here). I just saw your WC post full of BLD events and I thought I should start to slowly enter (again) into the BLD world. I would like to take it easy and I thought that maybe I could start doing 2BLD for the WC and see how it goes. I barely remember the concepts of OP from when I learned basic OP for 3x3 more than a year ago (for corners I would just use the altered Y-perm to shoot from UBL buffer to RFD target). What would you recommend for 2x2? Just to go ahead with OP corners? Do you use a different method? Any help will be greatly appreciated.


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## Jason Green (Jan 29, 2016)

Excited to watch the video later Chris, that's awesome! Keep up the silly practice and stubbornness!


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## h2f (Jan 29, 2016)

mafergut said:


> Hi Grzegorz (and other BLD solvers here). I just saw your WC post full of BLD events and I thought I should start to slowly enter (again) into the BLD world. I would like to take it easy and I thought that maybe I could start doing 2BLD for the WC and see how it goes. I barely remember the concepts of OP from when I learned basic OP for 3x3 more than a year ago (for corners I would just use the altered Y-perm to shoot from UBL buffer to RFD target). What would you recommend for 2x2? Just to go ahead with OP corners? Do you use a different method? Any help will be greatly appreciated.



I'm happy only with my 3bld results in this week. But doing WC (and all set of blind events in it) gives me motivation to keep practice.

For 2bld you can choose 2 ways: first one - one look solve. For me it's too hard. The second is the mentioned by you - corners with OP. Just straight ahead. In 2x2 theres no centers and you have to choose the sticker which is always in proper orientation. The tutorial I saw suggests it should be BUF but I choosed DFB. I think BUF is a little better for 3cycle and DFB is quite good for OP. Of course when you get a few pieces solved or even a block you should orient cube in this posiotion. Memo I do is just audio pairs: AB CD etc. Twists I do the same as in OP corners. With OP I could do ~ 40 sec solves after some time of practice. With 3style it's quite easy to be around 30. In this week my results are poor (bad day - I had a car accident yesterday) but earlier I could do solves around 20 seconds. You can make algs like OP Y-perm (without first F). Y-perm with F - i do it for UBR (obvious) and FDR (R as a setup), LFD - setup D R... etc. You can Ja and Jb too. It depends which ones you do in normal solves.

I think that's all. Let me know if I wrote it quite clear.  Good luck and practice.


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## mafergut (Jan 29, 2016)

h2f said:


> I'm happy only with my 3bld results in this week. But doing WC (and all set of blind events in it) gives me motivation to keep practice.
> 
> For 2bld you can choose 2 ways: first one - one look solve. For me it's too hard. The second is the mentioned by you - corners with OP. Just straight ahead. In 2x2 theres no centers and you have to choose the sticker which is always in proper orientation. The tutorial I saw suggests it should be BUF but I choosed DFB. I think BUF is a little better for 3cycle and DFB is quite good for OP. Of course when you get a few pieces solved or even a block you should orient cube in this posiotion. Memo I do is just audio pairs: AB CD etc. Twists I do the same as in OP corners. With OP I could do ~ 40 sec solves after some time of practice. With 3style it's quite easy to be around 30. In this week my results are poor (bad day - I had a car accident yesterday) but earlier I could do solves around 20 seconds. You can make algs like OP Y-perm (without first F). Y-perm with F - i do it for UBR (obvious) and FDR (R as a setup), LFD - setup D R... etc. You can Ja and Jb too. It depends which ones you do in normal solves.
> 
> I think that's all. Let me know if I wrote it quite clear.  Good luck and practice.



Yeah, one-looking is definitely a possibility. I assume that's also why there is no WCA event for 2BLD, because most top 2x2 solvers can one-look most their solves but, for that you need to know CLL + full EG and know perfectly how to AUF for each case, which is not very easy. With Ortega I can one-look only very easy scrambles, not more than 1-3% so not an option.

I just did a sighted trial. I was lucky with the scramble, that had 3 corners already solved and no cycles, so just 4 targets. I have a bit of confusion with your way of naming target stickers. Not sure what BUF means and when you say I can do normal Y-perm for UBR... don't you mean UFR ("shoot" buffer in UBL to target in UFR).

Other than that the easy and sighted trial was successful. I now have to refresh the letter naming convention, I think it was clockwise from top-left on every face A to D for U face and then... the rest of the faces in not sure what order, maybe L, F, R, B, D? Will have to check some tutorial


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## h2f (Jan 29, 2016)

Sorry for miswriting - of course by UBR I meant UFR. My buffer is UBL.


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## newtonbase (Jan 29, 2016)

You are right. Speffz is clockwise on U L F R B D.


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## mafergut (Jan 29, 2016)

h2f said:


> Sorry for miswriting - of course by UBR I meant UFR. My buffer is UBL.



Thanks. As you can see I'm a total noob but you have helped me a lot. As soon as I can re-learn the letter scheme I will try the WC 2BLD scrambles. By the way, searching on the web I read somebody say this: "I solve 2BLD without AUF, because +2 is faster then predicting AUF"... I thought that in BLD you can only get either a solved cube or a DNF. It would increase the % of one look if you don't have to worry about AUF and can, instead, get a +2.



newtonbase said:


> You are right. Speffz is clockwise on U L F R B D.



Thanks! I just found the video from which I learned OP back then. It was Zane C tutorial. And I also watched Noah's OP/M2 ones but never learned M2, just OP.


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## h2f (Jan 29, 2016)

mafergut said:


> Thanks. As you can see I'm a total noob but you have helped me a lot. As soon as I can re-learn the letter scheme I will try the WC 2BLD scrambles. By the way, searching on the web I read somebody say this: "I solve 2BLD without AUF, because +2 is faster then predicting AUF"... I thought that in BLD you can only get either a solved cube or a DNF. It would increase the % of one look if you don't have to worry about AUF and can, instead, get a +2.



In bld events one move away from solved posiotion is the same like in sighted events. But I think the one who wrote it meant he's doing one-look. In OP or 3stle theres no AUF. If you do setup you can undo it - no prediction etc. I hope you know what I mean.


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## newtonbase (Jan 29, 2016)

mafergut said:


> Thanks! I just found the video from which I learned OP back then. It was Zane C tutorial. And I also watched Noah's OP/M2 ones but never learned M2, just OP.



I did the same with Noah's videos. I couldn't understand his M2 explanations but I know it now. As you have found there are some very helpful blind solvers on this thread.


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## h2f (Jan 29, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> I did the same with Noah's videos. I couldn't understand his M2 explanations but I know it now. As you have found there are some very helpful blind solvers on this thread.



M2 is awsome. When you used to it the method is very fast and you can add easily many tricks to fasten your solves. I strongly recommend it for begginers.


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## moralsh (Jan 29, 2016)

I'm starting next week with WC, tomorrow I'm going to fail as many events as I can [emoji13]


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## newtonbase (Jan 29, 2016)

3BLD practice ahead of comp tomorrow is going really well. Just got a 2:57 and a couple of faster near misses. I'm giving myself 2 attempts in the 10 min limit unless a memo looks slow then I'll rage quit and move on. If I can't get a good memo comfortably under 2 mins then I'm not going to get it at all.


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## h2f (Jan 29, 2016)

Good luck Adam in your tomorrow attempts.


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## Selkie (Jan 29, 2016)

Thanks all, watching back there is still room for improvement. I am hating the number of cube rotations and pauses are still an issue. If I can get sub 16.5 at ACE comp in April I will be happy, do not want to set the bar too high.

Well, with a total of less than 5 BLD successes to my name and all those being 4+ years ago need some inspiration from your gentlemen as this weekend is "Tackling the Nemesis That is BLD" weekend. My wife is busy studying for her degree so have some time to devote.

My original successes were in OP but I am open to changing that.

What would you guys recommend for re-starting BLD. Go straight for M2? Or stick with OP? And is it worth investing the time in learning a full letter pair word system or will my POA system suffice.

Really want to get some success in this discipline


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## newtonbase (Jan 29, 2016)

I say go straight for M2. It's easier than it seems and the move count is lower than OP. Also, there are lots of tricks to help avoid some of the trickier setups. Have a look at Mark's Advanced M2 thread once you know the basics https://www.speedsolving.com/forum/showthread.php?56076-Advanced-M2-guide

I'm not the person to ask about memo systems as I can't make up my mind what to use but in general terms I'd say use whatever works for you.


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## h2f (Jan 29, 2016)

Selkie said:


> Thanks all, watching back there is still room for improvement. I am hating the number of cube rotations and pauses are still an issue. If I can get sub 16.5 at ACE comp in April I will be happy, do not want to set the bar too high.
> 
> Well, with a total of less than 5 BLD successes to my name and all those being 4+ years ago need some inspiration from your gentlemen as this weekend is "Tackling the Nemesis That is BLD" weekend. My wife is busy studying for her degree so have some time to devote.
> 
> ...



If I can give you an advice - go straight with Noah's tutorials. M2 and OP for corners is a very good mixture. There are persons who are sub 1 minute with it. The key is the memo. I think you dont need full letter pair word system - you can make your memo on the fly and it's enough. Regular practice is the key - 30 minutes per day is enough to improve very fast.

I recommend Noah's tutorials on Cubing World:
- how to solve 3bld, first part of the series: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cRaf-dvamTE&list=PLJ1BFt1hZm2pocY5NpX-Kc5JABQ_jsaSh&index=8
- how to memo: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3JNpJaRccRE&index=2&list=PLJ1BFt1hZm2pocY5NpX-Kc5JABQ_jsaSh

Etc.


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## mark49152 (Jan 30, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> 3BLD practice ahead of comp tomorrow is going really well. Just got a 2:57 and a couple of faster near misses. I'm giving myself 2 attempts in the 10 min limit unless a memo looks slow then I'll rage quit and move on. If I can't get a good memo comfortably under 2 mins then I'm not going to get it at all.


That's harsh, it used to be 12 mins. I would say, go steady on the first and make sure of a success, then blast the other two 

@Selkie: Definitely M2, and definitely Noah! 

Some cool M2/OP here: https://youtu.be/iCMxmF0NJ1k


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## Selkie (Jan 30, 2016)

Thanks for the advise guys. I will take a look at the videos now before bed. Appreciate the advice


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## muchacho (Jan 30, 2016)

muchacho said:


> Oh, so I have a (very very small) chance of graduating in the race to sub-25 before you Jason? I'm not gonna make it (I'm at 26-27 seconds), but I'll try, hope you don't mind



And I failed, and I'd prefer to had done a 27 seconds average instead of getting this 25.00, arrrggh!

12. 21.894 D F L2 R2 D' F2 L2 B2 L D2 B2 F' D2 U B2 U2 R' U
11. 24.654 L B' D U' R D F D2 F L' B R2 D' F' R' B' U2 B
10. 24.830 B R U2 L B' D B' F L2 U' L2 U2 F2 R2 B L2 D2 U
9. 23.670 F L U B2 R' B F2 R F' D B2 F' L' R D B' R' B'
8. 21.743 F D' R2 D' L' R B D L' F2 D' F' L R' U' F D2 U
7. 19.735 R' F' D2 B2 F' D U L' F2 L2 R2 U L R D' F' R F
6. 24.831 R B' F' D' F' R' B2 L2 R' B2 F L2 B2 F R' U2 B L'
5. 25.383 B F2 D B' L B2 D2 U F' D2 U' B2 F2 L2 B F R U
4. 29.110 U F2 D' B F' R' B R U' R2 D2 R2 U L' R2 B L R
3. 23.487 F2 D' B F' L F2 D2 F' U F R' F2 R D2 U2 B' R D2
2. 30.398 B' D2 F' L' D' F' U' F D' U B' D' B F2 R2 U2 L2 R
1. 35.462 F' L2 R' D' F2 R' F2 L R' B2 F2 D' U B2 F D F' D


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## mafergut (Jan 30, 2016)

muchacho said:


> And I failed, and I'd prefer to had done a 27 seconds average instead of getting this 25.00, arrrggh!



What a pity! You should have warmed up a bit to avoid those two initial solves and you could have made it!!!!
Today I plan on recording my graduation round for sub-25. If I manage to do it you all will have something to watch and have a good laugh at tomorrow! 
If I cannot finally make it I will just do the average tomorrow and I will record another one when I have the time. I'm so busy even on weekends 

Regarding 2BLD I have already done a couple more sighted solves with just visual memo (you know, touching the stickers with your fingers and remembering, this goes there and there...). It works for 4 targets or so but for more I will need letter pairs. It's a pity because I think if I managed to do just visual memo for 2x2 it would be much faster. Anyway, as practise for 3BLD later, I guess it's better to start practicing with Speffz asap. I hope I can get my 1st success on time for this WC, let's see!


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## h2f (Jan 30, 2016)

In WC there are seldom scrsmbles with only 4 targets in 2 bld. 

patataj patataj patataj


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## muchacho (Jan 30, 2016)

mafergut said:


> What a pity! You should have warmed up a bit to avoid those two initial solves and you could have made it!!!!


I warmed, I was having one of those few good days and I though it was a good moment to try, and it was, but I rushed the first solves, too much pressure


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## Jason Green (Jan 30, 2016)

muchacho said:


> I warmed, I was having one of those few good days and I though it was a good moment to try, and it was, but I rushed the first solves, too much pressure


Man that's rough! Ok let's go we can graduate at the same time now.


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## muchacho (Jan 30, 2016)

That would be cool, I'll try!


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## mafergut (Jan 30, 2016)

I just finished uploading the video of my graduation round for the Race to Sub-25.
Please, feel free to go to my post there and have a very good laugh with my screaming, complaining... My camera nerves are so bad!!! Of course, comments for improvement are welcome but take into account that this video is me at my worst 

EDIT: And, some minutes later, and without the pressure of the camera, I also graduated, on the same day, on the Race to Sub-20. Yahooo!


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## muchacho (Jan 30, 2016)

Nice, it's actually not that bad for such a "terrible" average, if I were not seeing the times I would have thought it was a 25 seconds average 

And congrats for the sub-20 graduation.

Unedited videos FTW!


____
4x4 Ao5 PB: 2:45
4x4 Single PB: 2:07

Good enough for now. I've not tried Skewb, 2x2 and 3x3OH in days, I'll move to those now._


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## Selkie (Jan 30, 2016)

mafergut said:


> And, some minutes later, and without the pressure of the camera, I also graduated, on the same day, on the Race to Sub-20. Yahooo!



Congratulations, great stuff 

BLD going well so far, OP corners nailed and just learning M2 setups now


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## mafergut (Jan 30, 2016)

muchacho said:


> Nice, it's actually not that bad for such a "terrible" average, if I were not seeing the times I would have thought it was a 25 seconds average
> And congrats for the sub-20 graduation. Unedited videos FTW!
> 
> _4x4 Ao5 PB: 2:45
> ...



Thanks. I was sure I would fail again (on the sub-20 race). Regarding the sub-25 video, you are right, it's not such a bad average but it's full of incidents, so it could and should have been much better. The last solve with the wrong sune was really laughable. I was so nervous I would have to undo moves because I had started with the wrong OLL, had awful lockups. In general, whenever I watch my own videos I am always a bit embarrased but I just wanted to share it with you all anyway. I'm no coward!  It is very useful, though, as I see how much I still pause between F2L pairs, how little use of inspection time I make at times... Very revealing but, as I said, embarrasing at the same time.



Selkie said:


> Congratulations, great stuff
> 
> BLD going well so far, OP corners nailed and just learning M2 setups now
> 
> View attachment 5867



You know how to do things, man! A cube already stickered with the letter scheme, pen and paper and a cup of hot coffee! What else would anybody need to start practising BLD? By the way, 1st timed success with 2BLD OP. I had a 5:41.xx success and a 3:00.xx near success so I decided to try the WC scrambles. The result: two DNFs and a 7:10.xx success, because I wanted to do the 3rd one right so badly that I reviewed my memo 3 times and I was thinking for over a minute what to do with a twisted corner (I didn't remember that I had to shoot to two stickers on it to untwist it), but a success nonetheless!!!


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## Jason Green (Jan 30, 2016)

mafergut said:


> I just finished uploading the video of my graduation round for the Race to Sub-25.
> Please, feel free to go to my post there and have a very good laugh with my screaming, complaining... My camera nerves are so bad!!! Of course, comments for improvement are welcome but take into account that this video is me at my worst
> 
> EDIT: And, some minutes later, and without the pressure of the camera, I also graduated, on the same day, on the Race to Sub-20. Yahooo!


That was funny, your reactions cracked me up a couple times. Good job though, especially graduating!


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## mafergut (Jan 30, 2016)

Jason Green said:


> That was funny, your reactions cracked me up a couple times. Good job though, especially graduating!



Thanks a lot, Jason. I did it for you guys, that's why I was speaking in English (I'm Spanish). Sorry about me clearing my throat here and there but I didn't want to touch the audio at all  And don't forget I'm waiting for your advice. I have a long way to go to try and get at least close to Chris' times and I need your help.


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## ryuusei86 (Jan 30, 2016)

Well, my Cubicle order arrived today. My CubeDepot order was supposed to arrive also, and indeed the tracking number still says USPS delivery should happen today, but I don't think so since it's 5:00 p.m. and the mailman has already been here. Monday most likely.

The Cubicle package contained a MoYu Pyraminx and a bunch of stickers. Not being a speedcuber, all I need is for the puzzle not to feel disgusting when I turn it, and not to fall apart while I use it. This Pyraminx looks like it will more than deliver. That's now two MoYu products I have including the TangLong 3x3, and I have to say I'm very pleased with both.

I have 1 set each of 2x2, 3x3, and (this was probably dumb) Pyraminx stickers. My plan with the cubic puzzles was to replace the yellow with a color somewhere between yellow and orange, and to replace the orange with a light purple. My feeling is that this will solve the white/yellow and orange/red problems at the same time, even in dim light. If I now have trouble telling the blue from the light purple, or from the green, then it's back to the drawing board ... or else I can just turn on more lights. 

Anyway, now to research Pyraminx solving techniques.


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## moralsh (Jan 31, 2016)

another Comp has gone by, a small comp in which I expected to fail at everything due to lack of practice and did a little better than that.

2x2: Horrible, just horrible, 9.98 average
3x3 First Round: second thing in the morning in a cold Venue 23.xx average, just couldn't move my fingers fast enough, lookahead was also nowhere to be seen
3x3 Second round: Cold fingers again, just did this after Multi&4BLD and was very, very cold
4x4, didn't make the 1:30 cut, bad, bad...
3x3OH: PB single on the first solve, a 35.xx, which ended in a 38.83 average, more close to my level but still beatable.
Pyra: The 12 solves I did yesterday and the 5 today are all my solves in the last half year or so, just don't care enough to practice
3x3BLD: Did a 1:39 in a super easy 6/8 scramble, did another 1:39 in a more normal solve and missed (again) the average after dnfing the last solve on an execution mistake after having to backtrack firstly 2 targets and then another 1, but very happy. Now I have sub 1:30 as my new target
3x3Multi: 4/5 with the DNF caused by an extra M2 in the middle of the solve, My new rooms start to pay off as memo was very, very solid. we had 1 hour for both multi and 4BLD and decided to play it safe.
4BLD: execution mistake on centers. was literally shaking the whole execution due to lack of heat in the room, which also carried off to the next event. Memo was again solid.

Quite happy overall, next one: end of february


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## Jason Green (Jan 31, 2016)

mafergut said:


> Thanks a lot, Jason. I did it for you guys, that's why I was speaking in English (I'm Spanish). Sorry about me clearing my throat here and there but I didn't want to touch the audio at all  And don't forget I'm waiting for your advice. I have a long way to go to try and get at least close to Chris' times and I need your help.


I thought you might be doing English special that time. 

I got my package from the cubicle today also! I did the worst ever unboxing video I'll upload later.

Marcel, I love the new colors! I've only solved a few times and we left for dinner. The only issue I had is getting more bubbles this time. Does anyone have tricks for helping that? I used application tape like last time but just had more. I'll show that later too.


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## Jason Green (Jan 31, 2016)

Here's the really bad unboxing video I made. Complete with bad audio and like a 50 second first solve (guess I'll blame the different colors) [emoji12] 

https://youtu.be/hOkBwRcAXDk


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## muchacho (Jan 31, 2016)

moralsh said:


> ...a small comp...



Congrats for your 4 PBs!

1:30 cut off on 4x4? Wow, is this Poland or what?  I'm hopping for a 2:45 in mine, if it's much lower I won't even try.


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## muchacho (Jan 31, 2016)

Jason Green said:


> Here's the really bad unboxing video I made. Complete with bad audio and like a 50 second first solve (guess I'll blame the different colors) [emoji12]
> 
> https://youtu.be/hOkBwRcAXDk



An unboxing video without a long and flashing intro (and outro), not sponsored, and opening the bag with care and with scissors instead of a big knife? What kind of sorcery is this? 

I'm going to buy some thunderclaps as presents (they are nice and cheap enough) for some relatives, probably stickerless (hope colors don't bother them, but my brother is as colorblind as me).

That small cube looks too small, what's it's name?


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## mafergut (Jan 31, 2016)

moralsh said:


> another Comp has gone by, a small comp in which I expected to fail at everything due to lack of practice and did a little better than that. [...] Quite happy overall, next one: end of february



Congrats on your good results. Sorry about the cold that didn't let you get better times at 3x3. You do a lot of events, you know? So I suppose you will be tired. Big BLD must be exhausting. I'm envious, as always 



Jason Green said:


> Here's the really bad unboxing video I made. Complete with bad audio and like a 50 second first solve (guess I'll blame the different colors) [emoji12]
> https://youtu.be/hOkBwRcAXDk



Nice video! That small 3x3 is so cute!  By the way, if you plan on getting into OH first make a choice of which hand you are gonna use and also, from the very beginning, use the pinky and not the ring finger for R/R' (or L'/L if you choose your right hand). It will take a bit more to get used to but it will make you faster in the long run.


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## SenorJuan (Jan 31, 2016)

"If you plan on getting into OH, ... from the very beginning, use the pinky and not the ring finger for R/R' "
Don't automatically reject using your index finger for R' moves, it can be quite effective. And ring finger turning is worth trying. Using the pinky has the advantage of leaving the ring finger free to grip the cube, and the pinky is more dextrous. Ring fingers are longer, and stronger, which may be an advantage. Whichever way you choose, it's very difficult at first, all methods seem awkward.


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## Logiqx (Jan 31, 2016)

I've just had a look at the Manchester results. PB in 6x6. 

Bad luck on the 3x3 finals. Missed out by 0.01!


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## newtonbase (Jan 31, 2016)

Manchester so far
Pyraminx - no PB but I'd over achieved last time 
OH - I've set the bar low for next time
3BLD - first solve felt solid and turned out rescrambled. 2nd solve missed by 2 flipped edges as I forgot to do them. This was a few mins after telling Mark that that's one of my most common errors.
2x2 - PBs 14.03s average and lucky 5.72s single
3x3 - PB average 36.18s
4x4 - PB single 2:15.20s missed soft cut
Only 5x5 to go
Currently judging Mark in multi.


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## Jason Green (Jan 31, 2016)

muchacho said:


> An unboxing video without a long and flashing intro (and outro), not sponsored, and opening the bag with care and with scissors instead of a big knife? What kind of sorcery is this?[emoji14]
> I'm going to buy some thunderclaps as presents (they are nice and cheap enough) for some relatives, probably stickerless (hope colors don't bother them, but my brother is as colorblind as me).
> 
> That small cube looks too small, what's it's name?



I was going to just open the bag by treating into it like I do most packages, but I didn't want to damage my stickers. 

The cube is a ShengShou 3x3 Mini (46mm). I think it's too small to do much with. 

Thanks for the advice on OH. It will probably be a while, I think next I'll probably work on 2x2 when I'm willing to give up some 3x3 practice. 

Good job on the comp too BTW!


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## h2f (Jan 31, 2016)

muchacho said:


> Congrats for your 4 PBs!
> 
> 1:30 cut off on 4x4? Wow, is this Poland or what?  I'm hopping for a 2:45 in mine, if it's much lower I won't even try.



In Poland cutoffs in 4x4 are around 1 minute.


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## mafergut (Jan 31, 2016)

SenorJuan said:


> "If you plan on getting into OH, ... from the very beginning, use the pinky and not the ring finger for R/R' "
> Don't automatically reject using your index finger for R' moves, it can be quite effective. And ring finger turning is worth trying. Using the pinky has the advantage of leaving the ring finger free to grip the cube, and the pinky is more dextrous. Ring fingers are longer, and stronger, which may be an advantage. Whichever way you choose, it's very difficult at first, all methods seem awkward.



Yeah, R' with index can also be used when the grip is favorable. I use it for a couple OLLs. Regarding pinky, the vast majority of fast guys use it as it is more dexterous, as you say and I changed to it soon after I started practicing OH. I use ring for wide Rs, though, as I don't have space to grip with more than one finger when I do r/r'. Anyway, it's also a matter of personal preference.

EDIT: To avoid double posting. I wanted to enter into as many events as possible in this week's WC so I tried 5x5 (I have a Cyclone Boys 5x5 that I have solved untimed maybe 2-3 times with just the help of the parity alg that is similar to the 4x4 one). So I decided to time a solve to see how long it would take. Well, I don't know how to do the centers, save for trial and error, I can more or less pair the edges by free-slicing but it takes ages, I was fumbling with the last two edges for minutes until I solved them or ended up with just one edge left with the middle piece flipped and then do the "parity" alg. 3x3 stage is, well, slow to say the least. Conclusion: my 1st timed solve was a bit over 20 minutes  I need to do another 100 before I can enter the WC but, at this speed it can take over a year 

EDIT2: Second solve 13:53.xx. Third solve 9:15.xx. I had never before shaved more than 10 minutes off my PB in one day


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## bubbagrub (Jan 31, 2016)

Mark got 5/5 in MBLD! Great result! You must be delighted. I've got some catching up to do...


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## newtonbase (Jan 31, 2016)

Logiqx said:


> I've just had a look at the Manchester results. PB in 6x6.
> 
> Bad luck on the 3x3 finals. Missed out by 0.01!



Per cubecomps Mark got into round 2 as someone didn't compete and got the exact same average time. There's consistently for you. 

Also, I got a further PB in 5x5, missed cut as expected, and Mark got his 5/5 in multi (due mainly to excellent judging). 

And finally, Martin Berger competed in 3x3 today aged 87. He's almost exactly double my age.


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## mafergut (Jan 31, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> Per cubecomps Mark got into round 2 as someone didn't compete and got the exact same average time. There's consistently for you.
> 
> Also, I got a further PB in 5x5, missed cut as expected, and Mark got his 5/5 in multi (due mainly to excellent judging).
> 
> And finally, Martin Berger competed in 3x3 today aged 87. He's almost exactly double my age.



Cubing at the age of 87!!!! And I thought I just had another 5 years ahead... It looks more like 42 now 
And that 5/5 MBLD is an awesome result, Mark!!!
Also congrats on your 5x5 PB


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## h2f (Jan 31, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> Per cubecomps Mark got into round 2 as someone didn't compete and got the exact same average time. There's consistently for you.
> 
> Also, I got a further PB in 5x5, missed cut as expected, and Mark got his 5/5 in multi (due mainly to excellent judging).
> 
> And finally, Martin Berger competed in 3x3 today aged 87. He's almost exactly double my age.



Great news. Congrats Mark!

@Raul, your results are also fine.


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## Logiqx (Jan 31, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> Per cubecomps Mark got into round 2 as someone didn't compete and got the exact same average time. There's consistently for you.
> 
> Also, I got a further PB in 5x5, missed cut as expected, and Mark got his 5/5 in multi (due mainly to excellent judging).
> 
> And finally, Martin Berger competed in 3x3 today aged 87. He's almost exactly double my age.



Ah... looks like it has been updated since I originally looked at it!

Congrats on all of the PBs guys... stacks of PBs for Mark Adams and Mark Rivers pushing the bars higher in 5x5 + MBLD.


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## MarcelP (Feb 1, 2016)

@Mark,

Congrats on the whopping 5/5 MBLD and making it to podium! Wow!


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## Jason Green (Feb 1, 2016)

Yes that's awesome Mark! I'm going to start having dreams about getting a podium I think. 

Here's a video I did showing my restickered Gans and the issue I had with bubbles. I still love the stickers and they feel much more durable. I then did a "first try" average of 5 which really stunk (and the camera did not focus well, sorry). I think I may film more like this, instead of filming a lot to try and catch a good one. This to me is better practice for competition nerves. I actually did worst than my only comp.


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## EvilGnome6 (Feb 1, 2016)

I do stickers one at a time and sort of roll them on from one edge to the other to minimize bubbles. It takes a little longer but I like the results.


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## muchacho (Feb 1, 2016)

Congrats!


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## moralsh (Feb 1, 2016)

When I finally get a decent MBLD Mark comes and does it better  , Congrats Mark!

@muchacho, 1:30 cutoff is quite common in Madrid and usually is not that hard to do, but first thing in a cold morning... no

@mafergut: I like all cubic events and the rest a little bit less. I try to focus in 1 or 2 at a time and then rotate to another 2, all of them are fun.

@h2f, after successfully testing my new memory palace, I'm entering Blind WC starting this week, I need a 5BLD success!

Here's my best official 3BLD so far, thank for recording Apdrf1!


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## Berd (Feb 1, 2016)

Well done Mark!


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## Jason Green (Feb 1, 2016)

Good job also Raul! That makes blind look fun, so much to learn.


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## h2f (Feb 1, 2016)

moralsh said:


> Here's my best official 3BLD so far, thank for recording Apdrf1!
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_C-2iNSauDw



Good job! We got similiar offcial times in 3bld.


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## mafergut (Feb 1, 2016)

Jason Green said:


> Yes that's awesome Mark! I'm going to start having dreams about getting a podium I think.
> 
> Here's a video I did showing my restickered Gans and the issue I had with bubbles. I still love the stickers and they feel much more durable. I then did a "first try" average of 5 which really stunk (and the camera did not focus well, sorry). I think I may film more like this, instead of filming a lot to try and catch a good one. This to me is better practice for competition nerves. I actually did worst than my only comp.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yGZyFT9RIj8



I think the problems with bubbles are mainly because of TheCubicle stickers. Their vinyl is quite durable and has a nice feel but it is prone to bubbles. I do the same thing Mike has suggested, apply them one by one trying to just stick one corner and then roll / press with my finger all the way down to the other side but, anyway, I get some bubbles. I'm afraid if you get one that is not close to the edge and is annoying you, the only solution is to puncture the bubble with a needle very carfully.

Regarding your N-perm it happens to me a lot. I changed one of my Ns to some alg like that because in my tests it was faster but I mess up a lot so, I'm thinking about going back to the original one. Nice video, though, despite the lack of focus. As somebody said the other day on my Ao12 video, uncut / unedited videos FTW!


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## h2f (Feb 1, 2016)

I think the problem with bubbles is caused by a method of stickering. I buy stickers from Michał Halczuk. My son stickers them with a lot of bubbles. If I do it - theres no bubbles. I clean the cube with 90% alcohol and put them one by one. On the big cubes (6x6) too. If theres a bubble I pierce it with the needle.


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## mark49152 (Feb 1, 2016)

Thanks everyone for the nice words, and congrats Raul & Mark A on your comp successes too . Here's my post-mortem of Manchester Open 2016.

*3x3:* If I look back 10 averages in my log, the date is Oct 9th. This lack of practice is showing as inconsistency. I still get a decent number of sub-20 and even sub-19 solves, but the averages are spoiled by screw-ups when I try to use an OLL/PLL that I don't use on 4x4+. Funny story from this comp: just before 3x3 I was telling Mark A how OLL-56 came up twice at UK Champs and I couldn't remember it so had to 2-look it, spoiling both solves. So after that conversation I opened up algdb.net and relearned and practised it. Guess what came up in the second solve. I tried to remember it, messed up, and had to resolve - hence the 32 second abomination.

*4x4:* Practised quite a bit so I was a bit disappointed not to get PB average - missed it by ~0.3 secs - although to be fair my PB was quite lucky. I was averaging 1:20-25 at home when I set it at Cuthberts and am about 1:15-17 now. So I gained something because I no longer regard my 1:17 official 4x4 average as lucky .

*5x5:* Very pleased. Still stuck at 2:30-35 at home so 2:20 in comp is great. In a few months I might be saying the same about 5x5 as I said about 4x4 above . The DNF on first solve was due to a messed up parity alg rescrambling the cube - I hit the timer in annoyance, but then after making soft cut I regretted doing that in case of a second DNF I couldn't avoid.

*6x6:* I average 6:10-20 at home. It only took a little amount of competition shakes to make it harder to control such a big cube, and I got triple parity. 6:42 was disappointing but at least it will be easy to beat next time . I want to avoid taking 6x6 too seriously. It's too time consuming to practise much.

*2x2:* Comedy event for me. Never practise, don't really care! Usual story of PBLs re-scrambling the cube. Again I was on algdb.net right before the round.

*3BLD:* Couple of good solves but still a little disappointed because I could have started execution a little earlier on both and would have been close to a PB. In comp I tend to hesitate and not trust my memo. For the third solve I had to choose between going for mean or single. I actually don't like that WCA have made means a thing, because (unless you have a chance of podium or next round) you have two results you can aim for that are in conflict.

*MBLD:* Big thanks to Mark A for his patience judging, and for filming. Memo was OK - not the best and it took a while to make it stick. During 4th cube I took first look at the stopwatch and it was on 16 mins so I knew then I had plenty of time and went over everything again very thoroughly and fixed some mistakes. Had to re-memo the 5th cube after realising I'd memoed it in the wrong orientation! Then took execution very steady.

Overall another good comp. Who's up for Exeter?


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## moralsh (Feb 1, 2016)

Jason Green said:


> Good job also Raul! That makes blind look fun, so much to learn.



It IS fun. Most BLD events become funnier when they start to be less time consuming. 



h2f said:


> Good job! We got similiar offcial times in 3bld.



We have similar times in almost everything xD



mark49152 said:


> *MBLD:* Big thanks to Mark A for his patience judging, and for filming. Memo was OK - not the best and it took a while to make it stick. During 4th cube I took first look at the stopwatch and it was on 16 mins so I knew then I had plenty of time and went over everything again very thoroughly and fixed some mistakes. Had to re-memo the 5th cube after realising I'd memoed it in the wrong orientation! Then took execution very steady.



I could copy&paste this paragraph, also went supersafe with memo. didn't have to re-memo the last cube, though


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## h2f (Feb 1, 2016)

moralsh said:


> We have similar times in almost everything xD



Oh yeah. I got my Aochuang back - the broken piece is replaced. I got first ao5 sub 3 minutes in WC.


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## newtonbase (Feb 1, 2016)

Time to learn the rest of the g-perms. I'll probably use Bob Burton's unless anyone has a better source?


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## Jason Green (Feb 1, 2016)

Thanks for the stickering advice. Doing one by one I might try, it sounds tedious.  Maybe I'll try and puncture those bubbles I have, I thought of that but was scared to try.


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## mafergut (Feb 1, 2016)

Jason Green said:


> Thanks for the stickering advice. Doing one by one I might try, it sounds tedious.  Maybe I'll try and puncture those bubbles I have, I thought of that but was scared to try.



Worst thing that can happen is that the sticker will last less but if the puncture is small and you flatten it carefully it shouldn't be a problem. I have done that with a couple bubbles and the stickers seem to be just fine for now. Also I have observed that in the cubes I stickered long ago there are no bubbles any more so maybe you can just forget about them and they will gradually disappear.

By the way, in preparation for my attack on the sub-30/25 race with non-white/yellow crosses I did some solves on other colours and got this nice sub-20 x-cross on green:

1. 19.05 R' F2 U' F2 R2 D B2 L2 B2 D L2 B L' D R' B L' R D R'

I think it's probably PB single on cross color different from white/yellow. Probably a nice scramble for Chris to go back to dual CN blue/green?


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## mark49152 (Feb 1, 2016)

moralsh said:


> I could copy&paste this paragraph, also went supersafe with memo. didn't have to re-memo the last cube, though


I only noticed it because the edge and corner targets didn't seem to match parity. I'm curious as to whether displaced centres can make a cube unsolvable and result in different parities for edges and corners, or whether I made some other silly mistake as well.

As for supersafe memo, I did have a plan worked out beforehand. After each two cubes, I went back and reviewed everything. On the first review of each cube, I checked against the cube to ensure the memo was correct. I did find some mistakes so that's definitely worthwhile. On subsequent reviews I would just test that I could recall the memo.

On the last cube, my plan was to do a regular 3BLD but I changed my mind due to having plenty of time. So I memoed corners using rooms same as the rest, before the final review. Then I did a supersafe audio for edges. I had one panic moment when I was about to execute the 4th cube and realized I was on the 3rd room... then I remembered I had solved the 5th cube first . I do need a better plan.


I'd like to learn more about how other MBLD solvers work. From those I've spoken to, everyone seems to plan it differently.


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## Goosly (Feb 1, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> I'd like to learn more about how other MBLD solvers work. From those I've spoken to, everyone seems to plan it differently.



Yep, everyone does lots of different things. The amount of cubes is a big factor, imo. For 5 cubes, I do the same as you - memo 4, safe 3bld, solve 4. Since you mentioned you were confused about the 3rd room for the 4th cube, I assume you haven't done a lot of 5-cube-attempts yet?

I also believe big blind helps me to get/keep comfortable with my memory-palace. For example, I memo a 5BLD in 4 locations (edges - 3x3 - +centers - xcenters), and I can easily use the same 4 locations for a group of 4 cubes in MBLD, even though I don't practice multiblind a lot at home (I haven't even done an attempt in the last 3 months).


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## moralsh (Feb 1, 2016)

With my previous system I used to do memo 1, review 1, memo second, review both and so on, and then execute the last 2 first.

With my new system (for 5 cubes) Memo all 4, review them backwards, review them again without touching the cube and executing forwards after the normal Blind.

I'm going to try 7 or 8 this week, not sure what I will do, I'll post again.


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## h2f (Feb 1, 2016)

Maskow told the who uses system of 2 cubes: review quickly 2 cubes without trying to memorize but building fast memo. Than memo first, memo second, review them both and take next two. With four cubes (2x2) review them all and take next 2. I try to do the same and it's helpful. But Im not good in mbld - I prefer big cubes. 

The ohter trick told me a friends. He puts all cubes in a row but the ones with parity are closer to him around 1 cm. They break a line and he knows wheter there's parity or not. It helps when you do mbld with more than 10 cubes. With few, it doesnt matter. I'm not sure if it's legal - I read the regulations and found nothing about it. I must ask the delagate about it.


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## mark49152 (Feb 1, 2016)

Goosly said:


> Yep, everyone does lots of different things. The amount of cubes is a big factor, imo. For 5 cubes, I do the same as you - memo 4, safe 3bld, solve 4. Since you mentioned you were confused about the 3rd room for the 4th cube, I assume you haven't done a lot of 5-cube-attempts yet?


That was my second attempt. First time, I did memo 4, safe BLD, solve 4. Yesterday when I got to the 5th I decided to use a 5th room instead of a safe BLD, then executed in order 5, 1, 2, 3, 4 and that's what confused me (but only for a few seconds ).



Goosly said:


> I also believe big blind helps me to get/keep comfortable with my memory-palace. For example, I memo a 5BLD in 4 locations (edges - 3x3 - +centers - xcenters), and I can easily use the same 4 locations for a group of 4 cubes in MBLD, even though I don't practice multiblind a lot at home (I haven't even done an attempt in the last 3 months).


Yes I use the same locations for 4BLD & 5BLD but have decided I need to be more systematic rather than using inconsistent locations as I do today. I have come up with a scheme where I have buildings, with four rooms/floors each, and each room/floor has three locations so is enough for a whole 3x3 or a single piece type in BigBLD. So I can fit a 5BLD in one building, or a 4BLD in half a building (no room/floor needed for X-centres because I use audio). I am going to rotate 4BLD and 5BLD attempts between the buildings to get used to using them all.


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## Goosly (Feb 1, 2016)

h2f said:


> The ohter trick told me a friends. He puts all cubes in a row but the ones with parity are closer to him around 1 cm. They break a line and he knows wheter there's parity or not. It helps when you do mbld with more than 10 cubes. With few, it doesnt matter. I'm not sure if it's legal - I read the regulations and found nothing about it. I must ask the delagate about it.



Sure, you can place cubes in rows, groups, all separate, wherever and however you want. I do this too (as you can see below), just as a reminder - with letterpairs, I know if a cube has parity anyway. The trick doesn't work if all cubes in a row have parity though, they will be one straight line anyway


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## Jason Green (Feb 1, 2016)

Haha I have no idea what you guys are talking about building houses to solve blind. It's fun though. And it's funny to think someday I might understand... Or not.


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## mark49152 (Feb 1, 2016)

Just wondering whether I can do this... so here goes.
Cube 1: GE QN PR FW OM IZ / IV CL T
Cube 2: FA NW SX CJ MJ DV EZ / HI NO JG P
Cube 3: XE IO NC BP HA FL / XK MB GN TO DI
Cube 4: AV CX JT JR ME RZ / BJ IW KX L
Cube 5: AHCD MVGF TJSJ / GO CQ PH IK

Cube 5 edges were audio and they were harder to recall. Not sure they are right.


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## h2f (Feb 1, 2016)

Jason Green said:


> Haha I have no idea what you guys are talking about building houses to solve blind. It's fun though. And it's funny to think someday I might understand... Or not.



Have you seen Sherlock series by BBC?


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## Jason Green (Feb 1, 2016)

h2f said:


> Have you seen Sherlock series by BBC?


No, maybe one episode.


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## h2f (Feb 1, 2016)

If I'm correct 3rd season is about it.


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## newtonbase (Feb 1, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> Just wondering whether I can do this... so here goes.
> Cube 1: GE QN PR FW OM IZ / IV CL T
> Cube 2: FA NW SX CJ MJ DV EZ / HI NO JG P
> Cube 3: XE IO NC BP HA FL / XK MB GN TO DI
> ...



Can you tell us what images you used for the memo? I'm always interested but a lot of people don't have written lists or can't say due to high levels of filth.


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## mark49152 (Feb 1, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> Can you tell us what images you used for the memo? I'm always interested but a lot of people don't have written lists or can't say due to high levels of filth.


Haha, yeah that should be fun  Actually not all of my pairs have images, I use sort of sentences with one or two images as "hooks" to remind me.

Cube 1: GE QN PR FW OM IZ / IV CL TZ
Get the queen a PR (press release) about this football club of mine (originally memoed as FC, which was wrong, but I just remembered to fix it at execution). IZ was on its own.
Carol T. taking intravenous drugs.

Cube 2: FA NW SX CJ MJ DV EZ / HI NO JG PZ
Fantastic new sex between two celebrities with initials CJ & MJ. Drive easy!
Someone calling to a waiter "hi! there's no jug with my pizza". (Who says memo has to make sense ).

Cube 3: XE IO NC BP HA FL / XK MB GN TO DI
Excessive I/O causes network card to beep "ha!" and fail.
Men in Black in a Jaguar XK (in the bath!) pointing a gun at Di.

Cube 4: AV CX JT JR ME RZ / BJ IW KX LZ
Audio/visual of Maru CX3 just jars me like a razor.
Something going on in the water, kicks Liz.

Cube 5: AHCD MVGF TJSJ / GO CQ PH IK
Athcud moovgif taysay.
Go with ClearQuest, phone Icke (that one will probably make no sense to anyone else ).


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## newtonbase (Feb 1, 2016)

Very imaginative. I'll have to try more sentences and see if I can get them to work for me. 

This is a good practice tool http://tobip.ch/letter_pair_generator/
Someone on this site came up with it iirc but I don't know who. 
While I'm at it I've been using this site to help create letter pair images http://peoplebyinitials.com


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## mark49152 (Feb 1, 2016)

I don't have fixed images per pair, nor take them in isolation. I found that too restrictive, slow and difficult. Instead, I read forwards 2-3 pairs and take them in context together. Some sentence usually pops out even if it's silly. For example, suppose the first pair is KG. Looking ahead to the next pair, it could be KG HN = King Henry, or KG SP = KGB spy.


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## Jason Green (Feb 1, 2016)

That makes sense to me maybe you ordered a jug of root beer with your pizza and it didn't come. 

ClearQuest as in the defect tracking system? We use that. Not sure if so if it just means the phone is no good compared to that?

Edit: so does this mean it only takes 8-11 letter pairs for a single blind solve? I guess I thought it was more. That makes it even more appealing.


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## mark49152 (Feb 1, 2016)

Jason Green said:


> ClearQuest as in the defect tracking system? We use that. Not sure if so if it just means the phone is no good compared to that?)


I imagined that David Icke (google him) is now working in ClearQuest sales and is sat in my memo location taking customer calls.



Jason Green said:


> Edit: so does this mean it only takes 8-11 letter pairs for a single blind solve? I guess I thought it was more. That makes it even more appealing.


Yeah that is all, it's not hard once you get the hang of it.


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## chtiger (Feb 2, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> I'd like to learn more about how other MBLD solvers work. From those I've spoken to, everyone seems to plan it differently.



I've been doing something different lately that I'm curious if anybody else does. I'm at 7 cubes now, probably could do 8, but that's it, so if you're looking for high level stuff, you're not getting it from me. I don't know how people can do 15+. Anyway, like most people, I put 1 cube aside for normal 3bld. For the other 6, I memo all the edges first, then memo all the corners, then solve the normal 3bld cube, then solve all the corners 1-6 plus parity, then all the edges 1-6. It adds some time having to pick up and put down the cubes an extra time, but not a big deal for just 6 or 7 cubes.

My memo method for edges differs from corners, and is a more long term memo, so that's why I started doing it that way. For review, for edges I take my time on each cube and then review that cube. I do that for cubes 1-6. Then I review everything, and there will be stuff I've forgot. Then I review everything again, and so far that's been good enough to work. For corners, after each cube, I review all the preceding cubes as well. I'll usually review 1-6 an extra time. Then memo cube 7 and start solving.


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## Jason Green (Feb 2, 2016)

I gave away one of the two cubes today that I got for friends that have expressed interest in cubing (or cubing again). I really have been wanting a way to summarize better how *I* would teach someone to cube, so I finally put together a blog post about it. I tried to make an overall video before, but I think it was too overwhelming and difficult for someone new.

I would appreciate your feedback on the general ease of understanding of the text I wrote. I'm not looking to debate what ways are easiest to learn, I know there are opinions on that. As I said in the post, I recommend this to my friends because it is what I could help them with the best if they want/need it. Thanks if anyone would like to help me out!

https://acuriousblog.wordpress.com/2016/02/01/how-to-solve-the-rubiks-cube/


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## MarcelP (Feb 2, 2016)

Jason Green said:


> Haha I have no idea what you guys are talking about building houses to solve blind. It's fun though. And it's funny to think someday I might understand... Or not.



http://www.academictips.org/memory/romanrom.html


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## ryuusei86 (Feb 2, 2016)

Jason Green said:


> I really have been wanting a way to summarize better how *I* would teach someone to cube, so I finally put together a blog post about it. I tried to make an overall video before, but I think it was too overwhelming and difficult for someone new.


Your blog post looks right about at my level too.  I'll take a look at the videos tomorrow.

Meanwhile, my CubeDepot order arrived today. It contained a QiYi Square-1, which looks and feels amazing. I'm scared to touch it though as I don't want to mess it up until I convince myself that a mere mortal such as myself could actually solve it. The horizontal layers feel a bit dry as I think you'd say, and the slice move (?) sounds a bit squeaky, but everything moves freely.

It also contained matching Cyclone Boys cubes, a 3x3 and a 4x4. My judgement on the 3x3 is that, after one solve, it feels about 90% as good as my TangLong for about half the price. The 4x4 is, I believe, their smaller 60mm offering. The middle layers are slightly stiffer than the outer layers, but I hear this is pretty common. I bet a good blast of silicone spray will make a world of difference. I'm wary of loosening the tensions since I'm a n00b and I don't want it to explode.

The factory stickers on both the 3x3 and 4x4 leave quite a bit to be desired, but then again, so does my restickering ability. I plan to order in Cubicle sticker sets for both of them in my colors anyway, and probably for the Square-1 too.


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## Jason Green (Feb 2, 2016)

ryuusei86 said:


> Your blog post looks right about at my level too.  I'll take a look at the videos tomorrow.



Cool, let me know if you have any suggestions or questions. You can post on the blog too (I don't recall if an account is required).


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## h2f (Feb 2, 2016)

I got QiYi Sq1 and it's awsome. My times dropped by a 40 seconds to ~1:30. I can start practicing it. After some time with that puzzle I can say it's quite easy and very intuitive. There are few algs which are almost the same like in 3x3 CFOP - Uperms, Zperm, Hperm. The only one which is long and hard is parity alg. I dont understand all cases with shapes. I must work with it. 

Jason - good luck with teaching.


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## mark49152 (Feb 2, 2016)

Did a great 4BLD before work today, could have been a PB by some margin. Hit the DNF button when stopping the timer. Time lost forever. I think it was about 10 mins. Argh!


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## Selkie (Feb 2, 2016)

Congratulations of the comp results guys, fantastic stuff. Which UK guys are going to Exeter. Sure I have asked this before but be great to meet you. 2 1/2 years since a comp is too, too long for me 

Really interesting reading the discussions on BLD. I have been working hard on the horrible nemesis that is BLD for the last few days. Having had a few successes (~6m) a few years ago I found OP corners very quick to recap on and as recommended but you guys I have watched Noah's M2 tutorial videos which are very good. It is taking longer to nail M2 edges and I am only doing sighted edge solves at the moment but seem to be very regularly messing up when shooting to the M slice but I will keep persevering. Also seem to be making regular errors when tracing cycles, even writing down the letters but I guess that will come with time.

Certainly thinking of changing memo following reading recommendations on here though as I was going to make a complete letter pair list.

Imminently exppecting delivery of Gans 356v2, Yuxin 5x5, Qiyi Square 1 and some Gans sticker sets. Might even do my first unboxing if I get the chance.

PS: Still no sub 15 Ao12 on video. Whenever I turn on the camera it is not happening. Got a 15.21 earlier so going to try again this afternoon


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## h2f (Feb 2, 2016)

Stuff memo will come with time and experience. Full letter pair list is helpfull - I did one and tried to learn it but never done it. It helps only with strange letter pairs. In Polish the letters like "OI" "IO" "IE" "EI" etc are not making common words. On the other hand doing the list pushes one's mind to create images/words... I found doing mbld similiar to it. When I did 10 cubes I thought few words that I started to use since.

@Mark - better next time. What timer do you use?


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## mafergut (Feb 2, 2016)

Jason Green said:


> [...] I really have been wanting a way to summarize better how *I* would teach someone to cube, so I finally put together a blog post about it. I tried to make an overall video before, but I think it was too overwhelming and difficult for someone new.
> 
> I would appreciate your feedback on the general ease of understanding of the text I wrote. I'm not looking to debate what ways are easiest to learn, I know there are opinions on that. As I said in the post, I recommend this to my friends because it is what I could help them with the best if they want/need it. Thanks if anyone would like to help me out!
> 
> https://acuriousblog.wordpress.com/2016/02/01/how-to-solve-the-rubiks-cube/



I found it very easy to follow and a beginner should be able to learn with that. Good job. Maybe for cross a bit more detail on learning your colour scheme around white and some links to badmephisto advanced cross videos could be a bonus for people that want to take it one step further.


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## Jason Green (Feb 2, 2016)

mafergut said:


> I found it very easy to follow and a beginner should be able to learn with that. Good job. Maybe for cross a bit more detail on learning your colour scheme around white and some links to badmephisto advanced cross videos could be a bonus for people that want to take it one step further.


Thanks. That's a good idea, I should definitely mention the color scheme and the fact that the centers don't move. I might end up making separate posts for the next steps, I'll think about that some more. Thanks again!


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## mafergut (Feb 2, 2016)

Jason Green said:


> Thanks. That's a good idea, I should definitely mention the color scheme and the fact that the centers don't move. I might end up making separate posts for the next steps, I'll think about that some more. Thanks again!



If you wanna get into cube geometry for absolute beginners, apart from the fact that centers don't move, some elaboration on pieces vs stickers and the other two types of pieces (edges and corners) would be fine as well, but, to be honest, this should be also straightforward enough so, never mind


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## Jason Green (Feb 2, 2016)

mafergut said:


> If you wanna get into cube geometry for absolute beginners, apart from the fact that centers don't move, some elaboration on pieces vs stickers and the other two types of pieces (edges and corners) would be fine as well, but, to be honest, this should be also straightforward enough so, never mind


I thought of defining edges and stuff, but I decided to just use the words and let them figure it out from the picture.


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## muchacho (Feb 2, 2016)

Zaragoza 6-7 Feb,
http://cubecomps.com/live.php?cid=1333

3 rounds of 3x3
3 of 2x2
2 of 3x3OH
2 rounds of 4x4
1 of Skewb

I hope to make it to second round of 2x2 and 3x3.

I have not practiced OH, Skewb or 2x2 recently, only 3x3, and 4x4 to try to make the cut-off.

Goals:
3x3: 28 seconds ao5
2x2: 9
3x3OH: 1:10
4x4: 2:40
Skewb: 25


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## muchacho (Feb 2, 2016)

Arrggh, no bus or train that arrives soon enough on Sunday for 4x4 and second round of 2x2 and 3x3. I don't plan to go to a hotel, so I'll go only on Saturday, or not even that


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## chtiger (Feb 2, 2016)

Goals for Saturday:
3x3 -- eh, don't really care, PB I guess
3BLD -- sub 3:00
MBLD -- 5 correct
clock -- sub 13.5 avg

lofty goal -- sub Feliks in clock avg(11.8) or MBLD (6/6 36:16)


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## Jason Green (Feb 3, 2016)

MarcelP said:


> http://www.academictips.org/memory/romanrom.html


Interesting stuff. I guess I associate things similar to that when I memorize, but never did it as a room. 

BTW, I pierced some of my bubbles and they are hardly noticeable now. Perhaps some went down over a few days too. The only one I can see easily is the worst white one, but I think I disturbed the texture trying to iron it out so hard. It is better after piercing though. 

New PB 16.76 tonight, yay!


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## moralsh (Feb 3, 2016)

Muchacho, there's a train arriving at 11:10, you may do even 2x2 if you ask to be put in the last group. No chance of going by car?

I have tried 5BLD 3 times in the last couple of days first time was off by 4 midges (I executed HE instead of NE, memo was Okay) and twisted corner and buffer that I forgot to memorize, the closest so far. The other 2 where messed up during centers. I'll try again maybe this evening.


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## muchacho (Feb 3, 2016)

No car. I'm not sure if with that train I could arrive in time for 2x2, and no 4x4, so going for just 1 round of 3x3 (if I make it to the second round) is not worth it.

I've asked to be added to FMC, the first attempt is on Saturday, at least I'll try it.

Goal for FMC: 60 moves

Should I bring more than 1 cube for FMC? is that very useful?


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## moralsh (Feb 3, 2016)

It is helpful, I keep always one cube scrambled to check if I scrambled it correctly (faster than looking at the image) and the other 2 for trying different things, so yes, bring them


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## mark49152 (Feb 3, 2016)

h2f said:


> @Mark - better next time. What timer do you use?


KingEn on Android. I've never even noticed the DNF button before. Would have made sense to open my eyes first rather than stab at the timer in the dark.

Today's 4BLD... 10:01 PB... so close to sub-10!  I have been working on advanced U2 & r2 and have added lots of shortcuts. That's maybe shaved 1-2 minutes off but most of my improvement is down to faster memo of course.


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## h2f (Feb 3, 2016)

Nice time and so close. I use cstimer on laptop so there's no problem with dnf button.


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## Selkie (Feb 3, 2016)

So so close Mark, I am sure you will get it soon.

Well I burned myself out a bit with BLD and on receipt of a package from Cubicle yesterday which included a Gans 356 v2, Yuxin 5x5 and Qiyi Square 1 I have been playing a bit with the new toys:-

Gans 356 v2 Advanced: Wow what great promise. I love the 356 v1 apart from lock ups and they seem to be eradicated and the whole cube feels more stable. I can tell even within the first 50 solves that I will get some type of PB soon with this cube

Yuxin 5x5: All the recommendation I heard before were right, what a great cube for the price. Maybe a little loose so will adjust the tensions. Looking forward to an Ao12 at the weekend on this one.

Qiyi Square 1: Wow, I had forgotten how to solve the Sq1. Really pleased with my last comp results of sub 45 second average and then didn't practice at all ... for 2 1/2 years!  Took me about two hours to relearn essential algs. have to say really impressed with this puzzle too. I often used to pop the smaller slices but even though they try and pop sometimes they don't come out. Managed a just sub 50 average and a PB single of 23.x


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## h2f (Feb 3, 2016)

I saw your pb on yt. Very nice solve. Were there skips? I'm around 1:20 with sq-1 now. My solves are not fluent and I'm more focused on fingertricks than time. Got also few sub-1 solves. Qiyi is awsome. I had only mf8 but it was popping a lot.


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## Selkie (Feb 3, 2016)

Yes I had skips for permutation of corners and edges on last layer. I only solve layer by layer at the moment though before I forgot how to solve I did permutate corners on both layers at the same time then did EPLL on both layers separately.

Will need to put in some work to have a chance of getting close to sub 45 at comp in April


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## h2f (Feb 3, 2016)

I think with new qyji sq-1 become more popular. I bought my sq from Michał Halczuk who has NR wrote me he has got maybe 20 of them and sold out in a week. What is cutoff?


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## ryuusei86 (Feb 3, 2016)

So I got up the nerve to scramble my 4x4 yesterday, and believe it or not, eventually solved it. I think the 4x4 may be my favorite of the puzzles so far. Too bad this Cyclone Boys is kind of awkward to use, I think you'd definitely say it's no good for speedcubing. I might have to take it apart, lube everything, and retension it. Hopefully I don't have to go so far as sanding things down. Certainly the stickers need replacing.

(The fun part came when I realized I'd somehow managed to swap two "center pieces," of course an impossible feat on 3x3.)

I've also scrambled my Square-1 and have partially solved it. (Of course none of this has come about without my consulting the internet.) All that remains is to swap some of the corners and, if necessary, fix parity. For what it's worth, I can give another enthusiastic thumbs-up for the QiYi Square-1. It feels as awesome as the Cyclone Boys 4x4 doesn't. (And the Cyclone Boys 3x3 isn't bad at all after retensioning, at least at my level.)

I'll be making another Cubicle order for stickers, which is the type I expect takes them the longest to fill. I also need a corner piece for my TangLong, which somehow suffered a surface crack when I restickered it. I am also having evil thoughts about ordering six stickerless YuPo 2x2s, making six "force cubes" like I see everyone doing with 3x3s, picking the best one for my sticker colors, and putting the other five aside for trade fodder. I could imagine gladly trading two or three of them for one of someone's cast-off 3x3s or 4x4s.


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## EvilGnome6 (Feb 3, 2016)

ryuusei86 said:


> Too bad this Cyclone Boys is kind of awkward to use, I think you'd definitely say it's no good for speedcubing. I might have to take it apart, lube everything, and retension it. Hopefully I don't have to go so far as sanding things down.



If it's the Cyclone Boys G4, it doesn't need much other than a few drops of lube and a few weeks of breaking in. Once done, it's a fantastic 4x4 and I prefer it to the AoSu. It's just very bad out of the box.


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## mark49152 (Feb 3, 2016)

First 5BLD success, in 39:49 - yay! 

The memo wasn't too difficult. The hardest thing about it was keeping control of all the fiddly slice moves. I nearly lost it a few times.

Regarding the CB 4x4, I bought one and quickly wrote it off as junk. Then I tried Mark A's at Manchester and it was excellent. So perhaps I will spend some time breaking mine in and give it a chance.


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## ryuusei86 (Feb 3, 2016)

EvilGnome6 said:


> If it's the Cyclone Boys G4, it doesn't need much other than a few drops of lube and a few weeks of breaking in. Once done, it's a fantastic 4x4 and I prefer it to the AoSu. It's just very bad out of the box.


Good to know. I will keep scrambling it and taking a few hours to solve it each time then.


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## Jason Green (Feb 3, 2016)

Nice job Mark on the 5 BLD!


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## newtonbase (Feb 4, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> First 5BLD success, in 39:49 - yay!
> 
> The memo wasn't too difficult. The hardest thing about it was keeping control of all the fiddly slice moves. I nearly lost it a few times.
> 
> Regarding the CB 4x4, I bought one and quickly wrote it off as junk. Then I tried Mark A's at Manchester and it was excellent. So perhaps I will spend some time breaking mine in and give it a chance.



Congratulations. And yes, my 4x4 IS excellent. 

I'm working on getting your multi solve to you but my Dropbox is too small and my Google Drive is full. I've just set up OneDrive and I'm currently uploading to it but it's very, very slow.


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## mark49152 (Feb 4, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> I'm working on getting your multi solve to you but my Dropbox is too small and my Google Drive is full. I've just set up OneDrive and I'm currently uploading to it but it's very, very slow.


Awesome, thank you!


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## ryuusei86 (Feb 4, 2016)

I forgot to mention that those YouTube videos about the crocodile, tiger, and eagle "situations" were fire. If I watch them enough times, I might actually understand this F2L thing.


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## Jason Green (Feb 4, 2016)

ryuusei86 said:


> I forgot to mention that those YouTube videos about the crocodile, tiger, and eagle "situations" were fire. If I watch them enough times, I might actually understand this F2L thing.


Cool. I didn't use those when I was learning, but I found then for my sister and she liked them.


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## h2f (Feb 4, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> First 5BLD success, in 39:49 - yay!
> 
> The memo wasn't too difficult. The hardest thing about it was keeping control of all the fiddly slice moves. I nearly lost it a few times.
> .



Congrats Mark.


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## moralsh (Feb 4, 2016)

Congrats Mark, I'll follow soon, I hope


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## MarcelP (Feb 4, 2016)

Congrats Mark, now I must be able to have a 3X3 success soon


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## mafergut (Feb 4, 2016)

Wow! So nice Mark!
That's such a great accomplishment! I still cannot get my mind around to solving a 4x4 blindfolded so, a 5x5... I'm speechless! You guys don't stop amazing me.
Let's see if this weekend I can continue with 2BLD and maybe I will try for 3x3 in a month or two. Your 5x5 time will be my reference... for 3x3


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## muchacho (Feb 4, 2016)

Congrats Mark, seems you'll get more podiums with blind.


I've improved my best 3x3 ao12, from 23.842 to 23.827, not much


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## mafergut (Feb 4, 2016)

Pretty crazy PB single. First sub-12!!!!

1. 11.80 D F2 D2 L2 U2 R B2 D2 R2 F2 D2 R' D' F' D F2 R U2 L2 U'

x2 y // Inspection
R u R' B2 // Cross
L' U L U' L U L' // F2L#1
U y' R U R' U2 R U R' // F2L#2 (yes, I missed again U L' U L U2 L' U L for a rotationless f2l)
R' U' R U2 R' U R // F2L#3
U2 y' L' U L U y' R U' R' // F2L#4 (here I missed insertion with sledge, orienting all edges)
F R U R' U' F' // OLL
U2 // AUF, PLL skip

With such nice F2L and a laughable LL it could have been so much better. Anyway, pretty happy with the solve 
Low TPS for a solve so easy to lookahead (41 STM / 11.80 sec = 3,47 TPS) so definitely a missed sub-10 opportunity

EDIT: Missed opportunity confirmed  Retried 3 times and got a couple low-9s and an 8.41


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## h2f (Feb 4, 2016)

Nice. But with last f2l with sledge you could miss that OLL and PLL skip. 

Edit: checked and no - with sledge there's OLL 25 with all edges ok and only 3 corners left. I do that OLL with easy comm, so yeah - skip.


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## mafergut (Feb 4, 2016)

h2f said:


> Nice. But with last f2l with sledge you could miss that OLL and PLL skip.



Sure, but I didn't know that when I was solving so, in the end, it was good that I missed both improvements, because both lead to non-PLL-skips solves, as you say. Anyway, I normally don't pay much attention to EO with last slot because generally I don't find dot cases so much harder than others, nor all cross cases easier than others, like in this case where, by avoiding to orient all edges I got a T OLL  Meanwhile, had I oriented all the edges I would have gotten a bowtie, which is a bit slower. Lucky me!

Anyway, I think, statistically, it must be worth it, as you can get more sunes/antisunes or easy COLL cases, etc. At least I think I should concentrate a bit more on that for OH.


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## moralsh (Feb 4, 2016)

moralsh said:


> Congrats Mark, I'll follow soon, I hope



And I did, 42:50 (23:xx), first scramble on the weekly comp. Yay!!!!


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## mark49152 (Feb 4, 2016)

Thanks everyone, and ...



moralsh said:


> And I did, 42:50 (23:xx), first scramble on the weekly comp. Yay!!!!


Congrats Raul !! . 5BLD is cool. What method do you use?


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## moralsh (Feb 4, 2016)

Thanks!

I use r2, OP with some comms, and comms for both types of centers, which at the moment takes most of my execution time, but I'll improve that.

And yes, in the last 2 weeks I have gone from pure laziness to wanting to try again and again. My improved memo system since last week has helped a lot, I didn't have enough precision before that to even bother trying.

Feels great.


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## h2f (Feb 4, 2016)

Congrats Raul. Great! You will improve very soon with comms. They are very easy and efficient.

BTW. I was doing that scramble and I havent got any parity on it. I'm sure I have miscrambled it...


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## moralsh (Feb 4, 2016)

I just rescrambled the cube and the memo is OK, so either you misscrambled once or I did twice 

and Thanks!


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## h2f (Feb 4, 2016)

Yeah, I had to miscramble it.


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## mark49152 (Feb 4, 2016)

moralsh said:


> I use r2, OP with some comms, and comms for both types of centers, which at the moment takes most of my execution time, but I'll improve that.


I don't find comms as easy as everyone says they are, but I have started doing a lot more setups to the U2 interchange to avoid the trickier cases. My X-centres execution now takes me about 1:20 on average on 4x4. No idea about T-centres but much longer due to less practice.


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## h2f (Feb 4, 2016)

You will find +centers much easier than x-centers. Theres no any special alf for U or D layer. Just a simple trick which is a 3cycle. I dont know how many time my xcenters take - I think that it's still too long because I'm afraid to make a wrong 3cycle.


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## Hssandwich (Feb 4, 2016)

moralsh said:


> And I did, 42:50 (23:xx), first scramble on the weekly comp. Yay!!!!



Although I am not an older cuber, I do read this thread sometimes, and I couldn't help noticing the vast number of people getting their first 5BLD success on the weekly comp this week, me included. Congratulations to all!


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## mark49152 (Feb 4, 2016)

Hssandwich said:


> Although I am not an older cuber, I do read this thread sometimes, and I couldn't help noticing the vast number of people getting their first 5BLD success on the weekly comp this week, me included. Congratulations to all!


You don't have to be old to be welcome here . I have seen your 4BLD and 5BLD progress on the accomplishment thread. It's great to see other UK cubers getting interested - hopefully the events will get held more often .


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## SenorJuan (Feb 5, 2016)

You remember me saying I bought a LingPo 2x2x2 as a Christmas present for a 'lapsed 80's cuber' friend? Well he was sufficiently impressed that he's gone and bought himself a MoYu 3x3x3 (not sure which one). Could this be the start of something? Will he be showing off his collection of ghost cubes/mirror blocks/helicopter cubes next time I visit?


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## mafergut (Feb 5, 2016)

SenorJuan said:


> You remember me saying I bought a LingPo 2x2x2 as a Christmas present for a 'lapsed 80's cuber' friend? Well he was sufficiently impressed that he's gone and bought himself a MoYu 3x3x3 (not sure which one). Could this be the start of something? Will he be showing off his collection of ghost cubes/mirror blocks/helicopter cubes next time I visit?



Oh man! You might not know what you started there! I hope he's on this forum in no time sharing thought, times and everything. Congratulations on spreading the speedcubing virus.


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## Logiqx (Feb 5, 2016)

I guess my commuter practice is paying off. Quite a few 16's today... 

12+: 1
13+: 3
14+: 4
15+: 5
16+: 20
17+: 17
18+: 29
19+: 14
20+: 18
21+: 12
22+: 2
23+: 1


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## Selkie (Feb 5, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> First 5BLD success, in 39:49 - yay!



Sorry for the belated grats, been away on business. Awesome stuff



mafergut said:


> Pretty crazy PB single. First sub-12!!!!



Fantastic



moralsh said:


> And I did, 42:50 (23:xx), first scramble on the weekly comp. Yay!!!!



Congratulations too, so many 5BLD successes. Must get back on my 3BLD 


Been practicing Square 1 on my new Qiyi last few days having had to relearn. Gone down from ~55 average a few days ago to sub 45 with a 37s average on film. Really enjoying Square 1 and really want to try and push for sub 30


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## ryuusei86 (Feb 5, 2016)

SenorJuan said:


> You remember me saying I bought a LingPo 2x2x2 as a Christmas present for a 'lapsed 80's cuber' friend? Well he was sufficiently impressed that he's gone and bought himself a MoYu 3x3x3 (not sure which one). Could this be the start of something? Will he be showing off his collection of ghost cubes/mirror blocks/helicopter cubes next time I visit?


That friend of yours could basically be me. Soon I'll have that kind of collection to show off too as I just placed an order at cubezz.com for something like half a dozen puzzles. They're on vacation for another week, so I took a chance and placed a separate order at the Cubicle for a whole bunch of stickers. I'm setting my expectations low -- I'm thinking I won't see either shipment for at least three weeks if not a month.

Since I can now solve the Square-1 (with online cheat sheets), I'm no longer as afraid of shape-shifting puzzles, so at cubezz.com I ordered one of their 2x2x2 mirror blocks. (The larger ones are still a bit scary to me.) I think I also ordered a Shengshou Skewb, a YJ Yupo 2x2 and their GuanSu 4x4, a clock puzzle, and (just because I used to have one of these too in the 1980s) a snake puzzle. The order will take forever to get to me as I said, but getting six puzzles for $35 shipped, I feel like I won the lottery.

I am well aware that this is only beginning, and the 5x5 will come next, and possibly a 3x3 mirror block. I'm glad this hobby is fairly cheap compared to, say, playing golf or motorcycle riding.


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## Selkie (Feb 5, 2016)

SenorJuan said:


> You remember me saying I bought a LingPo 2x2x2 as a Christmas present for a 'lapsed 80's cuber' friend?



Haha. That was me and my wife bought me a 3x3 as a stocking filler in Christmas 2010, oh what did she rekindle!?


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## mark49152 (Feb 5, 2016)

Went through the video of my 5-cube 44:32 MBLD and worked out where the time went:-
- average first-pass memo per cube = 3:25
- average full review per cube = 1:32 (recall and trace on cube to check for mistakes)
- total time spent in light reviews = 4:23 (recalling memo without checking against cube)
- amount of life utterly wasted memorising cube 5 in the wrong orientation = 5:26
- execution = 9:55

It's probably of interest to nobody except me, but I learned a few things. First of all, reviews are expensive. I spent ~17 mins on memo and ~12 mins on reviews - so 40% of total memo time was reviewing. That's way more than I thought. Secondly, my execution in MBLD is really slow - like twice the time of regular 3BLD - but it's still a small proportion of the attempt, less than a quarter.

I now have a scientifically formulated masterplan for my next attempt .


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## muchacho (Feb 5, 2016)

ryuusei86 said:


> I am well aware that this is only beginning, and the 5x5 will come next, and possibly a 3x3 mirror block. I'm glad this hobby is fairly cheap compared to, say, playing golf or motorcycle riding.


Fairly cheap it is, I've just bought a Yuxin 5x5 for $12.xx as fasttech, and a Qiyi Square-1 for less than $7.


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## earth2dan (Feb 5, 2016)

Selkie. Watching your Square-1 video makes me want to buy a QiYi Square-1. I have an old one, I don't even know what brand it is, but it's awful. Strictly for casual solving. I'd lost interest in Square-1 but if the QiYi moves as good as you make it look, I want one 

Your 3x3 videos are an inspiration too. It looks like you're turning slow, but you're killing it. I've been chasing sub20 for over a year and I'm finally getting close. Watching you solve gives me hope that I could even see sub15 one day.

Lots of discussion about blind solving here too. I've been wanting to give that another try. I tried last year and I should have put more time into learning technique. I tried to develop my own memory system and I only ever had success with 2-look solves. I could memorize the edges in one look, solve them, then memorize the corners in a second look, and solve them. After watching the first of Noah's tutorial videos I can see there is a much better way. I think I'll be giving 3BLD another chance soon.


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## ryuusei86 (Feb 5, 2016)

muchacho said:


> Fairly cheap it is, I've just bought a Yuxin 5x5 for $12.xx at fasttech, and a Qiyi Square-1 for less than $7.


It'll happen. My Square-1 is also a QiYi and it may be the best puzzle I've bought so far. I'm curious about the similarities and differences among how to solve 3x3s, 4x4s, and 5x5s. But I'll wait until this big shipment of toys arrives first.



earth2dan said:


> Selkie. Watching your Square-1 video makes me want to buy a QiYi Square-1.


I am a beginner, but for what it's worth, I think you will be very happy with it if you buy one. I don't remember why I bought a ShengShou Skewb instead of a QiYi, but I know I had a reason. It might have had to do with reviews at the Cubicle.

I also forgot to mention that I'm not giving up on my Cyclone Boys 4x4, even though I just bought a YJ GuanSu. The Cyclone Boys is locking up a lot, but it's probably my fault for messing with the tensions. I'll probably have to take it apart, lube absolutely everything, and put it back together again. Taking it apart looks easy, but I'm guessing putting it back together will be beastly hard.


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## newtonbase (Feb 5, 2016)

earth2dan said:


> I think I'll be giving 3BLD another chance soon.



Do it!


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## gateway cuber (Feb 5, 2016)

3BLD is my specialty.....

single: 47.31, avg: 53-55 secs or so

multi: 4/5 in 8:03.95


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## Selkie (Feb 6, 2016)

earth2dan said:


> Selkie. Watching your Square-1 video makes me want to buy a QiYi Square-1. I have an old one, I don't even know what brand it is, but it's awful. Strictly for casual solving. I'd lost interest in Square-1 but if the QiYi moves as good as you make it look, I want one
> 
> Your 3x3 videos are an inspiration too. It looks like you're turning slow, but you're killing it. I've been chasing sub20 for over a year and I'm finally getting close. Watching you solve gives me hope that I could even see sub15 one day.



The Qiyi is a great puzzle. Had a couple of other Square 1 puzzles but they always popped. Got an average which was fast for me in comp and then forgot how to solve. The delivery of the Qiyi this week has certainly got me to relearn lost algs and get practicing again. A great puzzle it has to be said.

Thank you for your comments re 3x3. Sub 20 is such a threshold that often it takes a lot of mental power as well as cubing skill to attain. Just looked back and I achieved sub 20 in ~ November 2011 according to this graduation thread anyway which has an interesting graph of my progress from sub 30 to sub 20:-

https://www.speedsolving.com/forum/showthread.php?20037-Racing-to-sub-20/page433

To be fair it stayed pretty linear to sub 18 from there too and it has taken 4 years to drop the next two seconds! I always practicing slow turning as recommended but I guess never really appreciated that perhaps my hands were slow enough so in recent times have tried increasing TPS. What I have now is what looks like some weird hybrid between fast and slow!!



ryuusei86 said:


> I'll probably have to take it apart, lube absolutely everything, and put it back together again. Taking it apart looks easy, but I'm guessing putting it back together will be beastly hard.



Any even order cube (4x4, 6x6) is a challenge to re construct mainly due to the fact they do have a middle layer but it is hidden inside the cube. Useful to practice though for the day you get a 6x6 explosion 



gateway cuber said:


> 3BLD is my specialty.....
> 
> single: 47.31, avg: 53-55 secs or so
> 
> multi: 4/5 in 8:03.95



Those are some pretty awesome times I have to say. Mind me asking what age you are?


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## Isaac Lai (Feb 6, 2016)

Selkie said:


> Been practicing Square 1 on my new Qiyi last few days having had to relearn. Gone down from ~55 average a few days ago to sub 45 with a 37s average on film. Really enjoying Square 1 and really want to try and push for sub 30
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fY9x2ff6i1k



Something that will definitely help your solves is turning the U and D layers like you would on a 3x3, and slicing by alternating R and R'.


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## Selkie (Feb 6, 2016)

Isaac Lai said:


> Something that will definitely help your solves is turning the U and D layers like you would on a 3x3, and slicing by alternating R and R'.



Indeed there are still lots of places where I can make up time


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## Logiqx (Feb 6, 2016)




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## mark49152 (Feb 6, 2016)

Logiqx said:


> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ulLWLyXMb_M


Wow, haven't had one that that since LingYun days!


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## muchacho (Feb 6, 2016)

Comp results:
http://cubecomps.com/live.php?cid=1333&compid=17

Skewb: Times are not up yet, I can't remember, but probably more than a 25 seconds average, building the layer took me too much time.

FMC: DNF, I waited too much, I copied the moves to the paper without verifying the last ones... someone told me later the solve was a M2 away from being solved and like 63 or 65 moves long.

3x3: 30.36 ao5, best time 23.46
Lookahead was bad, and I should have practiced more picking up the cube, but the times are not that far from what I expected.

2x2: 10.51 / 7.28
I screwed two solves, but the rest were good enough.

3x3OH: 2:34.13	ao5, best 1:24.25
This was the last event, I was tired and made so many mistakes, in the last cube once I knew it was not going to be a PB I just DNF it.


I think I have some 3x3 and skewb solves on cam, I'll try to upload some of them... if there is a cube in frame.


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## Jason Green (Feb 6, 2016)

muchacho said:


> Comp results:
> http://cubecomps.com/live.php?cid=1333&compid=17
> 
> Skewb: Times are not up yet, I can't remember, but probably more than a 25 seconds average, building the layer took me too much time.
> ...


Good job! Since I only do 3x3 so far I can't compare myself to most of your events.


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## chtiger (Feb 7, 2016)

chtiger said:


> Goals for Saturday:
> 3x3 -- eh, don't really care, PB I guess Yes and No
> 3BLD -- sub 3:00 No
> MBLD -- 5 correct No
> ...


http://cubecomps.com/live.php?cid=1366&compid=14
3x3 -- PB avg by .31, missed PB single by .16
3BLD -- missed by 1.72s, 
1st solve struggled with memo, took a dnf @ about 2 minutes to save time for later(10 min total time limit)
2nd solve was 2:17 DNF, I think I made a wrong move undoing a setup
MBLD -- 3/6, but 0 pts was good enough for 1st. Not nearly as impressive as 7/15, but that's the rules, so I'll take it
clock -- messed up twice, so had to count a 17, but got a pretty good single

Also got 3rd in 3bld and clock. Yay for unpopular events. Got some gift cards for cubicle as prizes, so looks like I'll be adding some new puzzles. What should I get? I don't have pyraminx, megaminx, skewb, square-1, or anything above 4x4


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## newtonbase (Feb 7, 2016)

Well done. 
Pyraminx and skewb are fun but older cubers can't get bogged down in too many events that they can't do well at. Square-1 is evil and mega is too big. Get a good 5x5 first.


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## Selkie (Feb 7, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> Well done.
> Pyraminx and skewb are fun but older cubers can't get bogged down in too many events that they can't do well at. Square-1 is evil and mega is too big. Get a good 5x5 first.



5x5 is a good option but Sq1 isnt too bad a choice


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## Jason Green (Feb 7, 2016)

No one here is going out to this are they?
http://www.cubingusa.com/Kcubingspring2016/

I can get a pretty cheap round trip flight, and a guy I used to bowl with lives there and his son is going to compete. So I may go. 

Mike D. I looked at flights to AZ for your thing, but they're about twice as much so I doubt I'll try to come. 

What about US nationals, anyone going? My niece lives up there, but flights not as cheap either.


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## Logiqx (Feb 7, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> Wow, haven't had one that that since LingYun days!



I've popped a single edge with that cube before (only once) but never an edge plus two corners.

First pop I've caught on camera.


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## mafergut (Feb 7, 2016)

Logiqx said:


> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ulLWLyXMb_M



Wow! Was that a Tanglong exploding? It must be pretty loose, man! I hate when that happens to my Yueying, btw.


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## Selkie (Feb 8, 2016)

Just about to do another cube order. Got the Yuxin 5x5, Gans 356 v2 and Qiyi Square 1 last week and there are a few more I would like having not ordered for a while.

Definitely going for the YueXiao, Black Moyu AoFu 7x7, Aolong GT, Thunderclap.

My current 4x4 is a AoSu mini and 6x6 is an Aoshi. Any good new 4's or 6's and anything else you guys recommend?


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## mark49152 (Feb 8, 2016)

First sub-1 4x4 solve! Been pushing for it for ages, and when it came... man... 54.98... wow! No sneaking one in at 59.99


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## Selkie (Feb 8, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> First sub-1 4x4 solve! Been pushing for it for ages, and when it came... man... 54.98... wow! No sneaking one in at 59.99



Wow awesome solve there sir, that is the way to smash 1 min  Have about 15 sub 1 minute solves, only one on film but no sub 55. 

You going to Exeter perchance?


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## EvilGnome6 (Feb 8, 2016)

Jason Green said:


> Mike D. I looked at flights to AZ for your thing, but they're about twice as much so I doubt I'll try to come.



Registration is already full, anyway. I'm just going to have to make an even bigger event this spring. Where are you flying in from? Phoenix is usually a reasonable place to fly.


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## Jason Green (Feb 8, 2016)

EvilGnome6 said:


> Registration is already full, anyway. I'm just going to have to make an even bigger event this spring. Where are you flying in from? Phoenix is usually a reasonable place to fly.


Dallas/Fort Worth. Cool that filled up early!


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## h2f (Feb 8, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> First sub-1 4x4 solve! Been pushing for it for ages, and when it came... man... 54.98... wow! No sneaking one in at 59.99



Awsome. I got only one sub-1 solve.


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## mark49152 (Feb 8, 2016)

Selkie said:


> You going to Exeter perchance?


Verily, if I can get registered. I'm in the US with a customer all afternoon the day registration opens, so if it fills up in an hour I'll be out of luck.


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## moralsh (Feb 8, 2016)

h2f said:


> Awsome. I got only one sub-1 solve.



I've got none, closest so far I think is 1:08 or something similar I need to focus on 4x4 one of these days. I've been practicing 4BLD a bit more than usual lately, once I can more or less success at will, I'm focusing a bit more on execution and memo speed. So far 11:45 is the best I can get. Tomorrow I'll try one or 2 5BLD.

On a side note, I did my first leet (13.37) 3x3 solve, don't know if it is PB or not as my PB is 13.something. Full step no x-crosses (a pair laying around, though) fat sune and T-Perm

Here's the scramble if anyone is interested: F L' F' R' U' R2 U2 L2 D R' U2 B2 D2 F2 U2 R F2 U2 R L

EDIT: Congrats Mark! also congrats to muchacho for his comp debut, Mike for his pop  , Selkie for his square-1m chtiger and anyone else I might have forgotten


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## EvilGnome6 (Feb 8, 2016)

Jason Green said:


> Dallas/Fort Worth. Cool that filled up early!



Agreed, but it also means putting people on a waiting list which is heartbreaking. I hope you can make it out sometime. It's an easy flight from DFW.


----------



## Berd (Feb 8, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> Verily, if I can get registered. I'm in the US with a customer all afternoon the day registration opens, so if it fills up in an hour I'll be out of luck.


I could sign you up if you wanted?


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## mark49152 (Feb 8, 2016)

Berd said:


> I could sign you up if you wanted?


Awesome, thanks - anyone who notices I'm not yet signed up, please sign me up!


----------



## mafergut (Feb 8, 2016)

Selkie said:


> Just about to do another cube order. Got the Yuxin 5x5, Gans 356 v2 and Qiyi Square 1 last week and there are a few more I would like having not ordered for a while.
> 
> Definitely going for the YueXiao, Black Moyu AoFu 7x7, Aolong GT, Thunderclap.
> 
> My current 4x4 is a AoSu mini and 6x6 is an Aoshi. Any good new 4's or 6's and anything else you guys recommend?



Some people say the CB G4 4x4 is very good after breaking in, also the new and super cheap YJ GuanSu seems to be really nice and, of course, the regular size AoSu. Regarding 6x6 I don't know about any new ones. I'm waiting for a cheap one to be announced to buy one, as for me the aoshi is a bit expensive for something that will take me ages to solve.

I also have a YueXiao ordered as well. And a Tornado. If you're thinking about Thunderclap, the X-Man Design / QiYi Tornado is supposed to be the evolution of that. I have ordered one too  I'm also on the lookout for a good 2x2 that's not the Dayan so I got a Yuxin to try it out and a QiYi Pyra  ... and a Shengshou Gigaminx, which I will solve once in my life probably but I couldn't resist. And a 3x3 mirrorblocks  How's that regarding suggestions?


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## Shaky Hands (Feb 8, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> There's another older guy registered, Andy Nicholls, who posts as "shaky hands" on here. It will be a different comp - quite a few of the regulars can't go and there are loads of new competitors - about 40% are first-timers. Maybe some of them are old



Oh look, I got a name check.  Hi everyone.



mark49152 said:


> First 5BLD success, in 39:49 - yay!



Hey congrats Mark. Good work.



Logiqx said:


> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ulLWLyXMb_M



I don't think I'm capable of not swearing when I get a pop. So it's probably a good idea that I don't film myself. 

In other news, after getting a pop in 2 consecutive competitions, I've moved to a slightly tighter 3x3 Moyu Aolong and already got a new unofficial PB (20.26).


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## shadowslice e (Feb 8, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> Awesome, thanks - anyone who notices I'm not yet signed up, please sign me up!



Inb4 Mark gets signed up 6 times


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## Jason Green (Feb 8, 2016)

shadowslice e said:


> Inb4 Mark gets signed up 6 times


Does there need to be a protocol established? 

- check here if anyone is registering Mark
- if not continue, if so quit
- post here that you are registering Mark
- wait 5 minutes
- check here if anyone else is registering Mark
- if not continue... if so whoever's post appears first should register Mark, others should edit post to acknowledge they were not first then quit
- register Mark
- post here that Mark is registered

I don't know why I just wrote all that how silly of me.


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## mark49152 (Feb 9, 2016)

Sounds like it might work. I'll just check in a few hours later and verify the outcome was successful. Go team!


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## MarcelP (Feb 9, 2016)

Selkie said:


> My current 4x4 is a AoSu mini and 6x6 is an Aoshi. Any good new 4's or 6's and anything else you guys recommend?



My 4X4 main is the Cyclone Boys G4. Absolute amazing. Fast and no pops. Try it!



mark49152 said:


> First sub-1 4x4 solve! Been pushing for it for ages, and when it came... man... 54.98... wow! No sneaking one in at 59.99


Whoa, nice Mark. Not so very long ago (only few years) that would have been a world record.  My 4X4 times are also improving although I do only 5 solves per week (weekly contest). I get 1.45 - 1.30 averages now. I like that. I think I might focus on 4x4 a bit more.

EDIT: Oh and my cube motivation is getting back. Did an Ao50 yesterday (low 19 average) and lookup my M2 cheet sheet. Now time to start learning M2..


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## h2f (Feb 9, 2016)

MarcelP said:


> EDIT: Oh and my cube motivation is getting back. Did a Ao50 yesterday (low 19 average) and lookup my M2 cheet sheet. Now time to start learning M2..



My main 4x4 is 2 years old Aosu. I dont think I need to change it. 

I cought mo3 1:29.49 on camera in 3bld. It's a part of 1:29.38 ao5. Both are PBs. I wasnt hurry during solves. I think I'm gonna to upload it later.


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## Selkie (Feb 9, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> Awesome, thanks - anyone who notices I'm not yet signed up, please sign me up!



Looks like a master plan is in action and if all else fails .... I'll sign you up  Oh and be great to meet you.



mafergut said:


> Some people say the CB G4 4x4 is very good after breaking in, also the new and super cheap YJ GuanSu seems to be really nice and, of course, the regular size AoSu. Regarding 6x6 I don't know about any new ones. I'm waiting for a cheap one to be announced to buy one, as for me the aoshi is a bit expensive for something that will take me ages to solve.
> 
> I also have a YueXiao ordered as well. And a Tornado. If you're thinking about Thunderclap, the X-Man Design / QiYi Tornado is supposed to be the evolution of that. I have ordered one too  I'm also on the lookout for a good 2x2 that's not the Dayan so I got a Yuxin to try it out and a QiYi Pyra  ... and a Shengshou Gigaminx, which I will solve once in my life probably but I couldn't resist. And a 3x3 mirrorblocks  How's that regarding suggestions?





MarcelP said:


> My 4X4 main is the Cyclone Boys G4. Absolute amazing. Fast and no pops. Try it!



Thanks for the advise, CB 4x4, Tornado and GuanSu added to the order 



MarcelP said:


> Now time to start learning M2..



Great news, I need some additional motivation after starting to learn M2 a couple of weeks ago but messing up when shooting to the M slice and trying to learn my letters.


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## h2f (Feb 9, 2016)

Ups. My camera took mo3 1:30.12 which with 2 solves earlier made mo3 1:29.49 and ao5 1:29.38.


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## mafergut (Feb 9, 2016)

First one to watch your video even before you posted it on this thread! 
And 1st one to be amazed and comment on your youtube channel 
As I said on Youtube... you make it seem so easy... What's your fastest memo? For me 30 seconds is already unimaginable.

I like how you seem surprised that the cube is solved in the last two solves. Did you think you had messed up?


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## h2f (Feb 9, 2016)

Yeah. Thanks for comment...
My fastest memos are around 25 maybe 22. But in this cases they were around 30-40. I had a lot of dnfs in last time so I always think when I'm finished, there must be something wrong. Thats why I try no to hurry and stay focused on the solve. I found it as my main reason of DNFs. The other one was "too many things" in one time. I mean advanced M2 cases. I use only the ones I know very well, like using FU as a buffer or tricks with comms for UB.


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## MarcelP (Feb 9, 2016)

If only I could do that


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## Jason Green (Feb 9, 2016)

That's really awesome! I have to try and learn one of these years.


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## mark49152 (Feb 9, 2016)

Nice, especially the last solve! Your execution looks very efficient. Full comms for corners?


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## h2f (Feb 9, 2016)

Thanks to all! 

@Mark - yes, full comms for corners. I must work on speed with them. In last solve I realized that I've made wrong corner twist so I had to redo it...


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## mark49152 (Feb 9, 2016)

h2f said:


> @Mark - yes, full comms for corners. I must work on speed with them. In last solve I realized that I've made wrong corner twist so I had to redo it...


Looks like you are about 30 memo and 50-60 to execute. I'm about 50-60 for each but my execution is faster than yours and almost pauseless - with OP I'm using a lot more moves. I know my memo can be improved, but I also need to work on efficiency because there's not much scope for improving my execution otherwise. Yours looks so much more relaxed despite taking about the same time


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## mafergut (Feb 9, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> Looks like you are about 30 memo and 50-60 to execute. I'm about 50-60 for each but my execution is faster than yours and almost pauseless - with OP I'm using a lot more moves. I know my memo can be improved, but I also need to work on efficiency because there's not much scope for improving my execution otherwise. Yours looks so much more relaxed despite taking about the same time



OP for edges too? In that case a 50sec execution is dang fast!


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## h2f (Feb 9, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> Looks like you are about 30 memo and 50-60 to execute. I'm about 50-60 for each but my execution is faster than yours and almost pauseless - with OP I'm using a lot more moves. I know my memo can be improved, but I also need to work on efficiency because there's not much scope for improving my execution otherwise. Yours looks so much more relaxed despite taking about the same time



Yes you're right. It's around 20-30 for corners and same for edges. I think it's easier to be pauseless with OP - when you do alg you can think about your next target. With comms I need to focus more what I'm doing. But I think I'm slowly getting better with it. My edges are more better. If they are efficient it comes from using advanced M2 (your thread is great source) and I found some shortcuts like cancelation of some moves. It came out of nowhere. At the moment I'm trying not to speed up to increase accuracy. When I will feel comfortable with it I'll try to be faster.

Edit: I got 58 second solve on camera but I made some kind of cheat - I redo scramble which I dnfed and redo memo and execution. Memo was 20 seconds and execution 38. I think and the moment this shows my limits. That's why I did it.  I wont upload it.


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## mark49152 (Feb 9, 2016)

mafergut said:


> OP for edges too? In that case a 50sec execution is dang fast!


No; advanced M2 edges, OP corners. My edges are not too bad. Roughly it costs me 2s/target for edges and 3s/target for corners. A few fast corner comms would surely improve my times, although I'm not convinced comms would help my edges significantly.


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## mark49152 (Feb 9, 2016)

h2f said:


> I think it's easier to be pauseless with OP - when you do alg you can think about your next target. With comms I need to focus more what I'm doing.


Double post, sorry. Yes with both OP and M2 it's easy to think ahead. Any kind of thinking about what I'm doing during exec slows me down, even some advanced M2 tricks. When timing, as you said earlier, I only use the tricks I know very well. I do know some comms, but hate to pause to do them . That's one reason sighted untimed practice is important. 

I was very pleased with myself a couple of days ago after I used an A-perm during a timed solve with no pause and got a decent time


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## h2f (Feb 9, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> Double post, sorry. Yes with both OP and M2 it's easy to think ahead. Any kind of thinking about what I'm doing during exec slows me down, even some advanced M2 tricks. When timing, as you said earlier, I only use the tricks I know very well. I do know some comms, but hate to pause to do them . That's one reason sighted untimed practice is important.
> 
> I was very pleased with myself a couple of days ago after I used an A-perm during a timed solve with no pause and got a decent time



Same with me - I think I'm able to solve whole cube with comms but I need so much time that it's useless skill at the moment. I remeber someone from India has mentioned that he can solve cube with average 5 moves per edge with advanced M2 and cancelations. I think it's worth to keep it in mind. 

Just 5 minutes ago I got 57.11 solve with 8 targets for edges and 8 for corners. But it was the cube "after I dnfed earlier" so it doesnt count...


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## newtonbase (Feb 9, 2016)

I'm practicing advanced M2 edges mostly. I'm trying to improve my images memo to give me a chance at multi although I keep getting lazy and switching to audio. Also using as many tricks in the execution as possible to get them bedded in. No timed solves and success rate is lower than expected but I think I'm improving. 

The only other thing I'm working on is G perms. I was off sick yesterday so learned Gc. 1 to go for full PLL.


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## Shaky Hands (Feb 9, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> The only other thing I'm working on is G perms. I was off sick yesterday so learned Gc. 1 to go for full PLL.



You'll probably beat me to it. I haven't learned either of the N-perms yet.

I've been looking at 3BLD myself recently, just doing sighted OP solves at the moment though.


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## newtonbase (Feb 9, 2016)

Shaky Hands said:


> You'll probably beat me to it. I haven't learned either of the N-perms yet.
> 
> I've been looking at 3BLD myself recently, just doing sighted OP solves at the moment though.



The G perms are easier than I thought. They flow quite nicely and I hadn't appreciated that they are all mirrors or inverses of each other. Wish I'd learned them earlier. 

I learned a new N recently (r' D' r U2) x 5. It's much less fiddly than what I currently use.


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## Shaky Hands (Feb 9, 2016)

I remember Adam saying that the N-perms can be done with a setup move and then a J-perm. Not really looked into it much further though (yet.)


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## newtonbase (Feb 9, 2016)

Shaky Hands said:


> I remember Adam saying that the N-perms can be done with a setup move and then a J-perm. Not really looked into it much further though (yet.)



So they can R U R' U (J-perm) U' R U' R'


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## Shaky Hands (Feb 9, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> So they can R U R' U (J-perm) U R U' R'



Just been experimenting with this. Looks like it should be a U' in the undo stage, which I guess makes sense. Will try to get this into muscle-memory.


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## newtonbase (Feb 9, 2016)

Shaky Hands said:


> Just been experimenting with this. Looks like it should be a U' in the undo stage, which I guess makes sense. Will try to get this into muscle-memory.



Sorry. I made an error cutting it down from longhand. I'll edit to stop anyone else wasting time on it.


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## Shaky Hands (Feb 10, 2016)

No worries. Think I have this down for Na-perm anyway. Certainly faster than my previous approach of doing a Y-perm then a U-perm.


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## RicardoRix (Feb 10, 2016)

This is really weird, I swear I perform: R U R' U (J-perm) R U2 R' 
but this is not on algdb.net, nor is the left hand mirror version.

I regret taking the shortcut and learning some of the left-handed mirrors, for example the U-Perm. It is in fact much easier to perform the alg from the back and with the right hand.

I've just come across a similar solution to OLL36
where I find R' U' R U' R' U R U R B' R' B far easier than the left-handed version y2 L' U' L U' L' U L U L F' L' F.
By the number on algdb though, I'm in a minority of 36 to 1. What's peoples problem with B moves?


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## SenorJuan (Feb 10, 2016)

B moves are evil, like garlic, and should be avoided at all cost.

A more practical answer: my normal 2H grip has 3 fingers holding/blocking the B face, so it's never going to move without some odd re-gripping, and if re-gripping is needed, I'd sooner do a * y* so my B becomes R. So in the alg you mentioned,
(R' U' R U' R' U R U R B' R' B) I would end it ...R U R y R' F' R or maybe ...R U R y l' U' l.

It's possible wide f / f' moves may substitute in certain circumstances, but my personal repertoire doesn't feature them much.


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## EvilGnome6 (Feb 10, 2016)

RicardoRix said:


> I've just come across a similar solution to OLL36
> where I find R' U' R U' R' U R U R B' R' B far easier than the left-handed version y2 L' U' L U' L' U L U L F' L' F.
> By the number on algdb though, I'm in a minority of 36 to 1. What's peoples problem with B moves?



Hmmm... I'll have to consider switching to the R'U'R alg now...


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## MarcelP (Feb 10, 2016)

First few solves with Gans 356 V2 Advanced. I like the cube, it feels more stable than the V1, but that might be the 'new cube' feeling. Other than that, I do not think that if you like your V1 you should invest in a V2. Just my 2 cents. It will be my main for now


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## mark49152 (Feb 10, 2016)

RicardoRix said:


> What's peoples problem with B moves?


I have a few algs with B moves but generally they are harder to make work. Often they morph into something else, e.g. R B' will be executed more like l U'.


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## MarcelP (Feb 10, 2016)

And the X-man Tornado (QiYi Wind) is also excellent. It's like a super good Zhanchi (without the catches). The stickers a very nice and shiny. If you can go at fast TPS this is the cube for that. It is very light turning.


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## newtonbase (Feb 10, 2016)

Looking at my blind edges algs for DB/BD I noticed that an M2 setup gives a nice U-perm. I know it's not new but is M2 U M' U2 M U M2 commonly used?


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## Selkie (Feb 10, 2016)

MarcelP said:


> First few solves with Gans 356 V2 Advanced. I like the cube, it feels more stable than the V1, but that might be the 'new cube' feeling. Other than that, I do not think that if you like your V1 you should invest in a V2. Just my 2 cents. It will be my main for now
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=52omHcSaHiQ&feature=youtu.be



Sorry Marcel, think you bought it from my recommendation 

At last, sub 15 ao12 on film. That got a bit obsessive, going to concentrate on 5x5 and 6x6 and learning the rest of Winter Variation. Seen enough 3x3 recently to send me mad!!

Video to follow and lost the scrambles because I closed Chrome by mistake but ...

Average of 12: 14.89
1. 15.33 
2. 13.49 
3. 14.66 
4. 13.44 
5. 16.57 
6. (12.32) 
7. (DNF(21.20)) 
8. 16.50 
9. 13.48 
10. 14.37 
11. 15.95 
12. 15.14


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## MarcelP (Feb 10, 2016)

Don't worry. I buy just about every new cube there is. I am pretty happy with it. I can afford it, so my message was to the young ones.  nice video. Congrats on the sub 15. Did you do 2 step OLL in the first solve?


----------



## Selkie (Feb 10, 2016)

MarcelP said:


> Don't worry. I buy just about every new cube there is. I am pretty happy with it. I can afford it, so my message was to the young ones.  nice video. Congrats on the sub 15. Did you do 2 step OLL in the first solve?



Not deliberately, in an effort to squeeze every last millisecond I messed up on recognition. Where do you get your cubes from? My last order was Cubicle.us but did not know if there was somewhere else with faster delivery to EU apart from UK which do not have the cubes I want.


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## MarcelP (Feb 10, 2016)

From thecubicle.us with $1.99 rush. Received in 4 days


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## Selkie (Feb 10, 2016)

Ah ok, I had an order for about $150 that I was about to hit order on the other day but then I realised I had better wait until we have been on holiday for a week next week. Something to look forward to doing when we get back


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## mark49152 (Feb 10, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> Looking at my blind edges algs for DB/BD I noticed that an M2 setup gives a nice U-perm. I know it's not new but is M2 U M' U2 M U M2 commonly used?


That U-perm is an M2 setup to a "TuRBo style shortcut" U M' U2 M U as mentioned in my thread. I don't know how you would use the U-perm directly since it doesn't involve the buffer. Personally I do use that shortcut quite often for outer targets on R/L slices, but not if both would require setup. With two setups I keep screwing up the undo


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## h2f (Feb 10, 2016)

Mark is right. On the other hand I use that alg very seldom only for LU RU. For outer layers and LU or RU I prefer setup U/U' and comm which goes with M2.

@Selkie - I've just seen it on youtube. Congrats, finally you got it... In last few days I have a lot of doubts if I'll be ever sub20. My times dropped down because of lack of practice...

@Marcel - I like your unboxings and solves...


----------



## muchacho (Feb 10, 2016)

Congrats Selkie!


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## Logiqx (Feb 10, 2016)

Selkie said:


> Sorry Marcel, think you bought it from my recommendation
> 
> At last, sub 15 ao12 on film. That got a bit obsessive, going to concentrate on 5x5 and 6x6 and learning the rest of Winter Variation. Seen enough 3x3 recently to send me mad!!
> 
> ...



Well done. Maybe one day for some of the rest of us!

I received two Guo Guans in the post today... very nice and probably my new main(s).

I'll look forward to breaking them in over the next few days.


----------



## newtonbase (Feb 10, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> That U-perm is an M2 setup to a "TuRBo style shortcut" U M' U2 M U as mentioned in my thread. I don't know how you would use the U-perm directly since it doesn't involve the buffer. Personally I do use that shortcut quite often for outer targets on R/L slices, but not if both would require setup. With two setups I keep screwing up the undo



I meant using the U-perm on sighted solves. I still use the first ones I learned 2 years ago and they cycle UL, UR and UF. I'll use them for when the middle piece is at UB. 

I hadn't thought about using setups to get the most out of U M' U2 M U. That'll save plenty of moves.


----------



## mark49152 (Feb 10, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> I meant using the U-perm on sighted solves.


Yes I think it's very well known. I have always used MU algs for all EPLLs. There's something very satisfying in finishing a solve by spamming MU moves as fast as possible .

And congrats Selkie on the average - very nice


----------



## muchacho (Feb 11, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> There's something very satisfying in finishing a solve by spamming MU moves as fast as possible .


Yeah, I love that part of my solves, maybe in part because LSE it's the only step I can be relatively fast for now.


----------



## MarcelP (Feb 11, 2016)

h2f said:


> @Marcel - I like your unboxings and solves...



Thanks! I actually have almost 300 subscribers.. LOL... Almost time to start monetizing Youtube..


----------



## h2f (Feb 11, 2016)

MarcelP said:


> Thanks! I actually have almost 300 subscribers.. LOL... Almost time to start monetizing Youtube..



He, he. This is the idea. Or you can ask shops where you buy for a discount in exchange of some kind commercial.


----------



## Selkie (Feb 11, 2016)

h2f said:


> @Selkie - I've just seen it on youtube. Congrats, finally you got it... In last few days I have a lot of doubts if I'll be ever sub20. My times dropped down because of lack of practice...





muchacho said:


> Congrats Selkie!





Logiqx said:


> Well done. Maybe one day for some of the rest of us!





mark49152 said:


> And congrats Selkie on the average - very nice



Thank you very much gents. To be fair I have really overdone 3x3 trying to get to the two Xmas goals of sub 14 ao5 and sub 15 ao12 on film. Often practicing too much, getting obsessive and getting frustrated at failure which does not help progression. Looking forward to doing something else cubing with my time.

A while ago I learned about half of right hand slot Winter Variation. I have decided that learning teh rest and mirrors will be my next project. Even without edge control it will give me the opportunity of an OLL skip statistically 1 in 4 solves more so if I adopt some edge control in F2L. I am in second thoughts as to whether I will be able to adopt it is my full timed solves by Exeter comp in April but will try my best and if I feel it will effect my times I will learn the algs but just practice them with Marcel's alg trainer and incorporate them post comp.

5x5 is another event for me to concentrate on now. I do not know if you recall my 5x5 Ao100 in November when I was just sub 2:30 but I think the Yuxin that arrived a couple of weeks ago is a fantastic cube. With the odd average here and there I already seem to be averaging about 2:20 which is a lot more comfortable for the UK comp average cut of 2:30. I will be doing a fair bit of 5x5, 6x6 and 7x7 to ensure I make average cut in Exeter.



MarcelP said:


> Thanks! I actually have almost 300 subscribers.. LOL... Almost time to start monetizing Youtube..



I wasn't even subscribed for some reason. I am now 



Logiqx said:


> I received two Guo Guans in the post today... very nice and probably my new main(s).
> 
> I'll look forward to breaking them in over the next few days.



I cannot wait to try these cubes, I was close to ordering but I am on leave with the family a week from Friday. However my wife has to do an hour or so work on her degree each day so there will be some time for cubes and some time for keeping up with the thread so all good.


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## mafergut (Feb 11, 2016)

MarcelP said:


> Thanks! I actually have almost 300 subscribers.. LOL... Almost time to start monetizing Youtube..



I have subscribed as well (for some reason I was not subscribed yet). Don't forget to do a 300 subscriber giveaway contest 

And congrats to Selkie for the awesome average. As others have said already, maybe some day for the rest of us in this thread.

By the way, I have started to watch Zane C tutorials beyond OP, trying to get a rough idea of what M2 and Turbo is all about. For now Turbo looks nice... in theory. Not sure how easy / difficult will practice be. Trying to decide what edge method to choose once I get the hang of OP corners thanks to the 2BLD event in the weekly comp (I'm so bad at it yet).


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## Selkie (Feb 11, 2016)

There was quite a bit of talk a couple of pages ago about N perms. I am going to be doing a full video on my PLLs at some stage but might be useful to at least show you my favorite N perms.

I use all of the following:-

Na
*F' R U R' U' R' F R2 F U' R' U' R U F' R' - My Main 3x3 algs. Has potential to be very fast but I have never been great at finger tricks with my ring fingers. (See Video Below)*
z U R' D R2 U' R D' U R' D R2 U' R D' - This is the fastest for me and the only one I can get below 1.5 seconds but I do not use it because of the cube rotation
L U' R U2 L' U R' L U' R U2 L' U R' - Original one learned from Badmephisto years ago. I still use this on big cubes as I remember the alg rather than it being in muscle memory

Nb
*R' U R U' R' F' U' F R U R' F R' F' R U' R - My main 3x3 alg, also my fastest (See Video Below)*
R U R' U (R U R' F' R U R' U' R' F R2 U' R') U2 R U' R' - This is the 21 mover which is the setup+J+setup'. I still use this on 4x4 and 5x5
L U’ R U2 L’ U R’ L U’ R U2 L’ U R’ - Again the old Badmephisto learned alg which I tend to use on 6x6 and 7x7


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## mafergut (Feb 11, 2016)

Selkie said:


> There was quite a bit of talk a couple of pages ago about N perms. I am going to be doing a full video on my PLLs at some stage but might be useful to at least show you my favorite N perms.
> 
> I use all of the following:-
> 
> ...



Right now, I'm using your 2nd one (the z U R' D...) for Na and your main for Nb (R' U R U'...). I was using the lefty mirror of that for Na before (L U' L' U...).

Also, Marcel, after subscribing to your channel I saw your unboxing of a stickerless G4 and the YJ and Yuxin 2x2s. I'm glad you liked the Yuxin as I have one ordered with some other stuff to be used as my backup main, as I have a Dayan (it is my main) and a LingPo and CB stickerless and both of these suffer from locking issues that bother me a lot. If the Yuxin is not good enough I will consider an old Wittwo type C, which I think is used still by many top cubers out there.


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## mark49152 (Feb 11, 2016)

mafergut said:


> Right now, I'm using your 2nd one (the z U R' D...) for Na and your main for Nb (R' U R U'...). I was using the lefty mirror of that for Na before (L U' L' U...).


I also use the z U one, and the F/B mirror of it for Nb.


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## mafergut (Feb 11, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> I also use the z U one, and the F/B mirror of it for Nb.



I have to try that out but I wouldn't want to forget any of the other two (R' U R U'...) and (L U' L' U...) as I don't see me using the RUD ones on 4x4 and up.


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## mark49152 (Feb 11, 2016)

mafergut said:


> I have to try that out but I wouldn't want to forget any of the other two (R' U R U'...) and (L U' L' U...) as I don't see me using the RUD ones on 4x4 and up.


Yeah generally the same algs don't necessarily work well for 3x3 and bigger cubes. I often use 2-look on bigger cubes as its faster for me than fumbling unsuitable 1-look algs - especially on 4x4 where you might have parity anyway.


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## MarcelP (Feb 11, 2016)

mafergut said:


> Also, Marcel, after subscribing to your channel I saw your unboxing of a stickerless G4 and the YJ and Yuxin 2x2s. I'm glad you liked the Yuxin as I have one ordered with some other stuff to be used as my backup main, as I have a Dayan (it is my main) and a LingPo and CB stickerless and both of these suffer from locking issues that bother me a lot. If the Yuxin is not good enough I will consider an old Wittwo type C, which I think is used still by many top cubers out there.



I have all the 2x2's you mention here, and the Wittwo is by far the worst 2x2 in it. I literrally mean horrible. I love the Cycloneboys stickerless 2x2, and the Yuxin.My main is still the Funs (Fanghi) Sishuang? 2x2. There are two types. I mean the one with black stickers on white cube.


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## Selkie (Feb 11, 2016)

The RUD ones are lovely and I believe the only ones Breandan Vallance could sub 1 when he did the video of Sub1 all PLLs a number of years ago.

My problem is D! Whilst I agree B in an alg should be taken outside and dealt with harshly, D for me is a bit of a nemesis. It is ok in practice but as soon as I try and do an alg with D in it fast I lock up. I think I only have two favorite PLLs with D in them, E and one of my G's. I am also not too hot on L's. Not in locking up but in the slight adjustment needed to perform them. Maybe this is an age thing and slower regrips but I will have to try and get faster as a lot of Winter Variation has L's in it.

For algs I tend to heavily favor RUF 3 gen algs where they are available even if they have a higher move count. You will probably note both my favorite N's are RUF 3 gen


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## Shaky Hands (Feb 11, 2016)

I struggle a lot with L moves as my left hand is a lot more shaky than my right. Mostly affects me for Ja and Na perms but there's a lot of 1L-OLL cases that I am put off learning because of this. There's probably some alternative cases that would suit me better.

If I can ever suss out OH, it won't be with my left hand.


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## mark49152 (Feb 11, 2016)

Yeah I favour RUD for many algs including more than half of the PLLs, which is why I prefer those N perms. Each to their own I guess.

Regarding 2x2s, there are two versions of WitTwo. V2 is horrible but V1 once well broken in is still the best 2x2 out there except for Dayan, IMHO . I have not liked any of the recent 2x2s as they all seem hard and clacky compared to the beautiful smoothness of the Dayan. The Yuxin is the best of the recent ones though.


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## h2f (Feb 11, 2016)

Many corners comms are RUD.


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## chtiger (Feb 11, 2016)

Selkie said:


> At last, sub 15 ao12 on film.


Late congrats. You make it look easy, but it's not easy. 



mark49152 said:


> There's something very satisfying in finishing a solve by spamming MU moves as fast as possible .


Am I the only one who can't do this? I see everyone else doing it crazy fast, but I just can't do it fast at all.


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## mafergut (Feb 11, 2016)

chtiger said:


> Late congrats. You make it look easy, but it's not easy.
> 
> 
> Am I the only one who can't do this? I see everyone else doing it crazy fast, but I just can't do it fast at all.



H-perm is not among my fastest PLLs so, I seem to be also one of those guys that cannot spam MU moves super-fast.

Also I asked a question looking for advice on what edge method would be good to learn for a patzer like me after I get used to OP corners but none of the BLD guys that roam this thread has said anything... yet  It was here:



mafergut said:


> By the way, I have started to watch Zane C tutorials beyond OP, trying to get a rough idea of what M2 and Turbo is all about. For now Turbo looks nice... in theory. Not sure how easy / difficult will practice be. Trying to decide what edge method to choose once I get the hang of OP corners thanks to the 2BLD event in the weekly comp (I'm so bad at it yet).


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## newtonbase (Feb 11, 2016)

mafergut said:


> Also I asked a question looking for advice on what edge method would be good to learn for a patzer like me after I get used to OP corners but none of the BLD guys that roam this thread has said anything... yet  It was here:



M2 is a great method. It's very flexible and a good basis for moving on to comms. Most of the setups are easy once you know the rules so you only really need to learn 2 or 3. I started on full OP myself as I struggled a little with Noah's M2 videos but there's plenty of help here if you have any trouble.


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## mark49152 (Feb 11, 2016)

Yeah there's plenty of BLD talk on this thread about how great M2 is


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## chtiger (Feb 12, 2016)

mafergut said:


> Also I asked a question looking for advice on what edge method would be good to learn for a patzer like me after I get used to OP corners but none of the BLD guys that roam this thread has said anything... yet  It was here:


Everyone else will probably recommend M2, but I'd recommend OP if you want the easiest way to get successes. Once you understand OP corners, you'll understand OP edges, and no algs to learn (assuming you already know PLL algs), and it's not that much slower than standard M2. If you are going to do M2, you might as well add advanced M2 tricks right away (Mark's tutorial is good for this).


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## h2f (Feb 12, 2016)

mafergut said:


> Also I asked a question looking for advice on what edge method would be good to learn for a patzer like me after I get used to OP corners but none of the BLD guys that roam this thread has said anything... yet  It was here:



Well. When I was reading it I thought it's good to wait on your thoughts about it. So I didnt write an advice. My experience with that question is that M2 is much better for me. I was trying Turbo few times: the first one when I was learning 3bld (and next switched to M2). Few months ago I gave a try again. I was using turbo almost 2 months and did tons of solves and finally gave. After that when I did few solves with M2 it gave me my pb in home. I found M2 easier than turbo. But it's individual. I think good combination is OP for corners and M2 for edges. As I mentioned - it's individual and I think you should try both.


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## mafergut (Feb 12, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> M2 is a great method. It's very flexible and a good basis for moving on to comms. Most of the setups are easy once you know the rules so you only really need to learn 2 or 3. I started on full OP myself as I struggled a little with Noah's M2 videos but there's plenty of help here if you have any trouble.





mark49152 said:


> Yeah there's plenty of BLD talk on this thread about how great M2 is





chtiger said:


> Everyone else will probably recommend M2, but I'd recommend OP if you want the easiest way to get successes. Once you understand OP corners, you'll understand OP edges, and no algs to learn (assuming you already know PLL algs), and it's not that much slower than standard M2. If you are going to do M2, you might as well add advanced M2 tricks right away (Mark's tutorial is good for this).





h2f said:


> Well. When I was reading it I thought it's good to wait on your thoughts about it. So I didnt write an advice. My experience with that question is that M2 is much better for me. I was trying Turbo few times: the first one when I was learning 3bld (and next switched to M2). Few months ago I gave a try again. I was using turbo almost 2 months and did tons of solves and finally gave. After that when I did few solves with M2 it gave me my pb in home. I found M2 easier than turbo. But it's individual. I think good combination is OP for corners and M2 for edges. As I mentioned - it's individual and I think you should try both.



Thank you all for your advice!!! I don't have a lot of time to cube lately, and it's difficult for me to find 1h or so when I can practice BLD undisturbed, which taking into account that 1st successes take a lot of time, is one of the main reasons I haven't learned yet.

@chtiger: I had a couple of successes like two years ago with OP but they took like 15-20 minutes and then I abandoned it. So probably my 1st tries at 3x3 will be with OP but I just wanted to know if other method for edges will give a significant advantage in execution speed.

@h2f: Thanks, judging from the video tutorial, Turbo looks very nice but I remembered that you were trying Turbo yourself, that's why I wanted your advice, as first impressions of a noob like me can be wrong many times and I don't want to devote a lot of effort to learn a method that I'm not going to be able to master. So, I think I will probably start with M2... as soon as I can get some sub-10minute successes with OP


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## Selkie (Feb 12, 2016)

chtiger said:


> Late congrats. You make it look easy, but it's not easy..


Thank you 


mafergut said:


> I had a couple of successes like two years ago with OP but they took like 15-20 minutes and then I abandoned it. So probably my 1st tries at 3x3 will be with OP but I just wanted to know if other method for edges will give a significant advantage in execution speed.


This is exactly the same as me. I had a small handful of successes about 4 years ago with full OP but long and very frustrating. With great motivation from this thread I have started learning OP corners with M2 edges a few weeks ago. My challenges currently are firstly shooting to targets in the M slice which I seem to get wrong with great regularity but am also suffering with an age old issue of just silly mistake when tracking cycles, nothing to do with memo, even learning writing them down on paper I seem to go wrong somewhere every time. I guess getting the lettering system learned fully which I never did will cut down on errors, I know what the first sticker letter is on each side and work most of them out on the fly. I have the mindset that BLD is my nemesis and I am sure that negativity does not help.


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## h2f (Feb 12, 2016)

@mafergut
M2 is much faster than OP. With OP average movecount per piece is around 18 (2 moves for setup + 14 moves per alg (Tperm or Jperm) +2 moves undo setup). With M2 it's around 9 (4 moves setup but many of them are 3 movers + M2 - i count it as 1 move + 4 moves und setup). As you can see it's twice faster. But it includes knowing 3 extra algs - BU/BD/FU.

@selkie
Mistakes in tracking pieces happen to everyone on every level of skill. Age doesnt matter...


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## mafergut (Feb 12, 2016)

h2f said:


> @mafergut
> M2 is much faster than OP. With OP average movecount per piece is around 18 (2 moves for setup + 14 moves per alg (Tperm or Jperm) +2 moves undo setup). With M2 it's around 9 (4 moves setup but many of them are 3 movers + M2 - i count it as 1 move + 4 moves und setup). As you can see it's twice faster. But it includes knowing 3 extra algs - BU/BD/FU.
> 
> @selkie
> Mistakes in tracking pieces happen to everyone on every level of skill. Age doesnt matter...



Thanks again! Yeah, the move count seems so improved in M2 that it has to be faster once mastered, and with OP there are not that many "advanced" techniques to shorten that out. I'll have to check it out, try some sighted solves and see if I can easily get the hang of it.

My problem during memo is also with breaking into a new cycle. It's very difficult for me to remember, mid-memo, what targets I have not shot to yet to break into a new cycle. For corners I can more or less manage with my fingers but for edges I do not have enough fingers to mark all the already memoed edges  If the scramble has more than 2 cycles then I can be sure I will memo it wrong  Not to talk about flipped edges...


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## h2f (Feb 12, 2016)

Trust your intution. It's only a matter of experience to know what pieces are done and what no. Normal memo includes around 10/11 edge pieces. It means for me 5-6 words. So if I had I cycle break I know it's ok. More than 2 cycles breaks are very very seldom.


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## mafergut (Feb 12, 2016)

h2f said:


> Trust your intution. It's only a matter of experience to know what pieces are done and what no. Normal memo includes around 10/11 edge pieces. It means for me 5-6 words. So if I had I cycle break I know it's ok. More than 2 cycles breaks are very very seldom.



Yeah, I hope intuition is also developed with practice. When I said "more than 2" I meant cycles , not cycle breaks, so yeah, 2 cycle breaks. I can't remember having back then scrambles with 3 cycle breaks but I certainly remember having scrambles with 2 breaks in edges and that was enough to put my memo off  And then I would forget one flipped edge or corner in the end


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## Selkie (Feb 12, 2016)

h2f said:


> @selkie
> Mistakes in tracking pieces happen to everyone on every level of skill. Age doesnt matter...



Ok the motivation is back again and I am determined to nail this. We are away for a weeks holiday in a secluded cabin in a forest next week with just the family, bicycles and a hot tub so ample time to beat this once and for all. Can I ask if these are the same algs as you use for shooting to the M slice:-

M2 Slice Layer Targets:
UB (A): M2
UF (C): U2 M' U2 M'
FU (I): D M' U R2 U' M U R2 U' D' M2
BU (Q): B' R B U R2 U' M2 U R2 U' B' R' B
BD (S): M2 D U R2 U' M' U R2 U' M D'
DB (W): M U2 M U2

Also I did watch Noah's videos but am I correct in my thinking that on even targets where M2 is positioned correctly you shoot to the target and on odd where M2 is displaced you shoot to the opposite, e.g. UF becomes DB? I know this is right just want extra confirmation I guess.



mafergut said:


> My problem during memo is also with breaking into a new cycle. It's very difficult for me to remember, mid-memo, what targets I have not shot to yet to break into a new cycle. For corners I can more or less manage with my fingers but for edges I do not have enough fingers to mark all the already memoed edges  If the scramble has more than 2 cycles then I can be sure I will memo it wrong  Not to talk about flipped edges...



I find that problem too but I guess the challenges we are facing are what everyone faces learning BLD but with you, Marcel and myself learning M2 at the same time hopefully we can encourage each other and draw on the experience of some great BLDers in this thread :tu


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## h2f (Feb 12, 2016)

Selkie said:


> Ok the motivation is back again and I am determined to nail this. We are away for a weeks holiday in a secluded cabin in a forest next week with just the family, bicycles and a hot tub so ample time to beat this once and for all. Can I ask if these are the same algs as you use for shooting to the M slice:-
> 
> M2 Slice Layer Targets:
> UB (A): M2
> ...



I use the same algs. And you're right. If you are before M2 (first target in a pair) you shoot directly. If you are after M2 (second target in a pair) you do the inverse alg, it means you shoot to the opposite. UF becomes DB, FU becomes BD and vice versa. Only BU is still BU and you the same alg.


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## mafergut (Feb 12, 2016)

Selkie said:


> _[...]_ Can I ask if these are the same algs as you use for shooting to the M slice:-
> 
> M2 Slice Layer Targets:
> UB (A): M2
> ...



Sounds... so... confusing... 
I assume you do that during execution, not during memo, right? I already hate I, Q and S target algs...


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## muchacho (Feb 12, 2016)

I guess (I haven't practiced bld anymore, but I'll get back to it) that for example for FU you could use UF alg instead and just remember that that edge will be flipped, and for next edges (at least until you get again to another of those pesky targets) you should remember the letter of the other sticker of those edge pieces instead... less confusing? 

The two stickers of the edges in my lettering scheme have adjacent letters, so I guess it wouldn't be too difficult to try.


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## Goosly (Feb 12, 2016)

Selkie said:


> FU (I): D M' U R2 U' M U R2 U' D' M2
> BU (Q): B' R B U R2 U' M2 U R2 U' B' R' B
> BD (S): M2 D U R2 U' M' U R2 U' M D'



FU (I): F E (R U R') E' (R U' R') F' M2
BU (Q): B' U R' B U' M2 U B' R U' B
BD (S): M2 F (R U R') E (R U' R') E' F'

I execute the E by pulling with my left index finger and E' by pulling with my right middle finger (because I use my right index finger for the R U R' part)


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## mark49152 (Feb 12, 2016)

I use the same algs that Selkie posted except there's an easier solution for BU: (U M')3 (U M) (U M')4. Basically you do M2 to solve the edge but flipped wrong, and cancel that into an edge flip alg.

Also there is a much easier and more efficient way to solve FU and BD in most cases, but you should still learn the algs because you'll need them sometimes. Check out my advanced M2 thread in the help section for the tricks .

Regarding shooting to the M slice on even targets, this is just a matter of experience, but I have a couple of tips. First, don't think of it as the M slice being off by 180 degrees. Think of it as just FU and BD pieces being swapped each time. Actually the buffer and target pieces effectively don't move. They are always in the "right" place. So you always solve UB and BU the same regardless of odd and even. It's true the centres swap too, but you don't need to think about that because you don't solve those. It can be a bit confusing at first but sighted solves help. Suppose you already solved BU/UB. Watch that piece as you solve others. It always stays in place even when the rest of the M slice swaps round!

Second tip is to adjust for odd/even during memo, not exec. Always memo in letter pairs. On the second letter in each pair, if you hit C, I, S or W, memo the opposite instead - so W, S, I or C respectively. It's so much easier to do this during memo than exec. When you get to execution and you recall an S, you always execute it the same way, regardless of odd or even. So less thinking during exec, which is good, as fewer pauses and fewer mistakes. It also helps when you start bringing in other tricks and comms. Once you get in the habit of just swapping the letters during memo, you never have to think of where the M targets are.

Finally, regarding missing flipped/twisted pieces, it's good to get in the habit of counting, and using pairs/words helps with that too. For example for edges I group into 4s. I read 4 targets off the cube before I try to memo. I adjust the 2nd and 4th of each group if they are M slice targets, as I read them off. Then memo the word. Now suppose when I go for my 3rd word I hit the buffer piece on the first letter. I know that's the 9th target. No need to keep count all the way along, because the count is obvious from where the letter is and which word it's in. If I have hit 9 targets, I know there are two left, so I search the cube for two flipped or solved edges. Or maybe it's another cycle of two. Before I started using audio 4-letter words, I used to make more mistakes because I'd lose count of how many targets I'd already memoed.

Hope this helps. M2 is great fun!


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## mafergut (Feb 12, 2016)

So, A and Q don't need to be memoed as opposite. And, yeah, what you say makes a lot of sense, the less things to worry about during exec the better. I hope the lower movecount makes up for the addicional complexity, because if not, the time I gain vs OP edges I will lose staring blank (behind the blind) thinking about what to do next


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## muchacho (Feb 12, 2016)

Just curious, people usually close their eyes behind the blindfold, right?


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## h2f (Feb 12, 2016)

I dont know. But I usually close my eyes. 

BTW - I got almost fully solved cube with comms (only 2 targets are with M2 algs) on cam but the scramble was dnfed cube. I think the cube had quite decent state - 10 edge targets and 6 corners which sometimes happens.


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## Selkie (Feb 12, 2016)

Thanks Mark an excellent post sir and a lot of help, appreciate it :tu


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## RicardoRix (Feb 12, 2016)

muchacho said:


> Just curious, people usually close their eyes behind the blindfold, right?



Well if you accidentally see passed your blindfold and written on the piece of paper in front of your face saying "stop cheating you scumbag", they you'll definitely screw up the solve. So yeah, eyes shut at all times. Also less likely but you may see some hot bikini clad girl out the corner of your eye, equally distracting because it would more likely be a fat bloke in a wig.


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## muchacho (Feb 12, 2016)

Lol, thanks for the fun!


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## mark49152 (Feb 12, 2016)

@Selkie, you're welcome! Will be great to see some M2 successes at Exeter 



mafergut said:


> So, A and Q don't need to be memoed as opposite. And, yeah, what you say makes a lot of sense, the less things to worry about during exec the better. I hope the lower movecount makes up for the addicional complexity, because if not, the time I gain vs OP edges I will lose staring blank (behind the blind) thinking about what to do next


Yeah exactly, regarding A & Q. The additional complexity is really pretty minor. It just seems hard at first, but once it clicks it's not a big deal - just a couple more algs, and having to remember when you need to swap I/S and C/Q. That's why I always feel the urge to post and advocate M2 whenever I see someone say they will go with OP edges first. That's just a waste of time IMHO.

Regarding blindfold, I rarely use one at home. I just close my eyes, and I can't remember ever having an accidental peek. The only times I use a blindfold are for longer attempts like 5BLD and MBLD, and when practising right before a comp, so I don't forget when under pressure .


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## Jason Green (Feb 12, 2016)

Selkie said:


> Sorry Marcel, think you bought it from my recommendation
> 
> At last, sub 15 ao12 on film. That got a bit obsessive, going to concentrate on 5x5 and 6x6 and learning the rest of Winter Variation. Seen enough 3x3 recently to send me mad!!



Awesome job, I finally got around to watching this!

Marcel, I still haven't watched your new cube videos, but the Youtube email will sit in my inbox until I get to it!


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## h2f (Feb 12, 2016)

I dont know if theres too many of my solves in this thread. This is the solve almost fully solved with comms only pari DB-LB I put with M2. No scramble because I've started on dnfed cube but it had 10 edges and 6 corners as I mentioned earlier.


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## Selkie (Feb 12, 2016)

Jason Green said:


> Awesome job, I finally got around to watching this!



Thanks Jason and indeed thanks again for all your kind words. To be fair I gain most motivation from this thread because I can relate to you and the challenges we face grey haired cubing. Don't get me wrong, I will watch WRs and sample solves by the fastest cubers as much as the next solver but I cannot aspire to be 'just' like them as that will not happen. I set those goals and OK they were supposed to be over Christmas but better late than never and I refused to give up.



mark49152 said:


> @Selkie, you're welcome! Will be great to see some M2 successes at Exeter



Talking of goals, think you have just created a new one Mark. Challenge accepted although I would be even happy if will be a single success 



h2f said:


> I dont know if theres too many of my solves in this thread.]



Never too many! And great solve, gives great inspiration :tu


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## mafergut (Feb 12, 2016)

Exactly, never too many. It's so jaw dropping to watch your BLD solves...


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## chtiger (Feb 12, 2016)

mafergut said:


> Thanks again! Yeah, the move count seems so improved in M2 that it has to be faster once mastered, and with OP there are not that many "advanced" techniques to shorten that out. I'll have to check it out, try some sighted solves and see if I can easily get the hang of it.



The move count is much less, but the time savings gets overstated in my opinion. The high move count in OP comes from T and J perms, which most people do pretty fast, and edge execution is just a fraction of your total time. I think a rough estimate of how much faster M2 is than OP on average is [(time it takes you to execute T or J perm) - (time it takes you to execute an M2)] x 10. So typically around 15 seconds. So if you take 15:00 using OP/OP, then maybe you get 14:45 using m2/OP. The slow times aren't because of 12 T/J perms, it's from slow memo and having to think a lot during execution. The bigger advantage to M2 is the easier transition to more advanced methods. Add in the advanced M2 tricks and I'd guess that's 5-10 more seconds saved. I think Mark said his execution using advanced M2/OP is 50-60 seconds, and my OP/OP execution is typically 1:15-1:20, so all of that seems about right. Not trying to talk you out of M2. If you can easily learn it and be fairly accurate, then there's no reason to do OP edges. Just trying to give you a better idea on what time savings to expect compared to OP edges.


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## mafergut (Feb 12, 2016)

chtiger said:


> The move count is much less, but the time savings gets overstated in my opinion. The high move count in OP comes from T and J perms, which most people do pretty fast, and edge execution is just a fraction of your total time. I think a rough estimate of how much faster M2 is than OP on average is [(time it takes you to execute T or J perm) - (time it takes you to execute an M2)] x 10. So typically around 15 seconds. So if you take 15:00 using OP/OP, then maybe you get 14:45 using m2/OP. The slow times aren't because of 12 T/J perms, it's from slow memo and having to think a lot during execution. The bigger advantage to M2 is the easier transition to more advanced methods. Add in the advanced M2 tricks and I'd guess that's 5-10 more seconds saved. I think Mark said his execution using advanced M2/OP is 50-60 seconds, and my OP/OP execution is typically 1:15-1:20, so all of that seems about right. Not trying to talk you out of M2. If you can easily learn it and be fairly accurate, then there's no reason to do OP edges. Just trying to give you a better idea on what time savings to expect compared to OP edges.



Thanks a lot for your honest feedback. I fully understand what you say and I am not having high expectations of sub-2 minute solves in a month or anything like that. For you to know where I'm at right now, I just did the 1st 2BLD solve of the weekly comp and got 3:12.xx. It should have been sub-3 minutes because I realized I had memorized wrong the last target when I was about to start execution. And it was an easy scramble with just 5 targets, no twisted corners and just 1 cycle. So, a 3x3 is gonna take me at first at least 10 minutes to solve 

But, as you say, if I can understand and get the hang of M2, maybe I should go with that. OP will always be there for me if I cannot feel confortable with M2.


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## chtiger (Feb 12, 2016)

mafergut said:


> But, as you say, if I can understand and get the hang of M2, maybe I should go with that. OP will always be there for me if I cannot feel confortable with M2.


I think that's a good outlook to have. And M2 isn't much harder than OP, it's just a bit more effort to learn. So if you don't mind putting in the extra effort, then no reason to not try M2 first. The only additional thing to understand is the exchanging of BD/FU and UF/DB on even targets. And you have the BU/BD/FU algs to learn, plus the easy short algs for UF/DB. Parity also requires another fairly easy alg and is a bit more complicated, but nothing hard. If for some reason you can't get the hang of M2, you always have OP to fall back to.

With all the talk of 3BLD, I'm determined to practice more and get a sub 2:00 PB. Current PB is 2:01 using OP/OP. Not sure exactly what my M2 PB is, but it's 2:10-2:15. I usually alternate between the two when practicing, which isn't often.
Just did 3 attempts, and the number of targets were 13/9, 12/12(4 twisted corners!), and 13/9. Ugh, not going to get a PB on those scrambles.


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## mark49152 (Feb 13, 2016)

chtiger said:


> The move count is much less, but the time savings gets overstated in my opinion.


Who overstated the time savings of M2? I don't recall seeing any claims (at least on this thread) that struck me as being exaggerated. 

I agree with your analysis, more or less. My M2/OP execution is indeed about 50, maybe 55-60 with hesitations, and breaks down to about 2 sec/edge and 3 sec/corner. So assuming each OP edge would take me about the same time as an OP corner, I'd expect to be about 12 seconds slower with OP edges, with an equivalent amount of practice. Maybe a bit more if using a PLL for parity too. I'm not fast but I do still care about 12 seconds.

However, that's not really the point. The only real case I've made why people should skip learning OP edges is that M2 is not significantly harder, but will serve you better in the long run. IMHO, it's a waste of time to learn OP edges, if you care at all about getting faster one day. Those few seconds you save on edges execution might be minor compared to your slow memo now, but after a year you might care about those few seconds and wish you'd not spent a year practising OP edges only to realise you now have to switch. And as you acknowledge, M2 is a good platform for adding tricks including comms, so that year can be spent not just practising M2 but developing a broader repertoire of edges tricks based on it.

As for memo, I agree that for most people starting out the memo will dominate their times. I've roughly halved my memo time in the last 3 months, and I hope that by my next comp I will reduce it further by an amount that exceeds my entire edges execution time .


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## chtiger (Feb 13, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> Who overstated the time savings of M2? I don't recall seeing any claims (at least on this thread) that struck me as being exaggerated.



I wasn't referring to anybody specific. Nobody ever mentions an amount, but there's a lot of 'it's a whole lot faster', 'it's so much faster', or even 'it's twice as fast'. I wanted to put a number to that, because when someone is new to blind, ~15 seconds isn't a whole lot faster. I was wanting others to have a better idea of what the actual differences are. If someone learns OP and gets a 10 minute solve, and they think they can just switch to M2 and be a whole lot faster, they are going to be disappointed when they only get 9:45. That's why I said the time savings is overstated, because when people recommend M2 and say it's much faster, it's to someone who is fairly new to blind where the time difference isn't really much faster, relatively speaking.

I agree with what you say in the rest of your post. After improvement, then that 15 seconds will be more significant. Like with me getting sub 2:00. So it's fair to say that if I had started with M2 and not spent any time practicing OP edges, then I'd have a sub-2 already. But since I learned OP first, I could also say if I had used the time I've spent practicing M2 to work on my memo instead, I'd also have a sub-2 . It depends on your personal goals and preferences. I've only recommended OP for someone who wants the easiest method and not really interested in a longer term commitment to see how fast they can get. M2 is definitely better for long term improvement.


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## h2f (Feb 13, 2016)

I've decided to make ao100 in every day of the weekend starting from Friday. It's my first practice sessions for months. And I've found a lot of fun in it. Im in the middle of ao100 and I've realized that it's so much fun to solve the cube. Focused on getting better and better I've forgot about that feeling. It's great!


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## mark49152 (Feb 13, 2016)

chtiger said:


> I wanted to put a number to that, because when someone is new to blind, ~15 seconds isn't a whole lot faster. I was wanting others to have a better idea of what the actual differences are.


That's hard, because there's no actual difference, only estimates based on measurements and/or assumptions that will vary wildly between people. It's probably fair to say that the analysis above is reasonable in proportional terms. So after a decent amount of practice with M2/OP, exec is about half the solve, M2 edges are about half of exec, and OP edges would be about 50% slower - so M2 would result in solve averages about 10% faster than with OP edges. The faster you are, the bigger difference it will make - if slower then memo and pauses will dominate more; if faster then M2 TPS will approach that of your T-perm so move count will be more important, including the better scope for tricks, shortcuts and comms.

Similar arguments apply to comms I guess.


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## h2f (Feb 13, 2016)

If I can give you an example of me: look at my last video. I'm solving the cube so slow, but it's all with comms and that's why it takes only 46 seconds. Movecount matters a lot. J or T perm you can do in around 2 seconds (with setups). With the same tps in 2 seconds you can do 2 edges with M2. So it matters a lot.


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## muchacho (Feb 13, 2016)

This was the scramble of my FMC try at my last (first) comp:
R' D2 B' U' R' F2 L' D' B U D R2 U B2 R2 U' R2 D' L2 U2

And this was the solution I was meant to write down, but I wrote the last moves without testing if they were right, and the "solution" I wrote was off by the final M2:
y2 Uw B2 Lw2 x2 F U2 R' Rw' B'
U R' U Rw' U2 Rw' U' Rw U' Lw L' U2 R U' R'
y F R U R' U' F' y
R' U L' U2 R U' L R' U L' U2 R U' L
Rw2 R2 U Rw R' U2 Rw R' U2 Rw R' U' Rw2 R2 U2 Rw2 R2

https://alg.cubing.net/?setup=R-_D2...U_Rw_R-_U2_Rw_R-_U2_Rw_R-_U-_Rw2_R2_U2_Rw2_R2


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## muchacho (Feb 13, 2016)

3 months passed since I did some Megaminx solves, I've done 9 and that gets me a new ao12 PB... Woohoo! ...9:35 ...embarrassing, I'm going to practice Mega until I get it down to 5-6 minutes (best so far is 7:46), or until my Yuxin 5x5 arrives.


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## h2f (Feb 13, 2016)

muchacho said:


> This was the scramble of my FMC try at my last (first) comp:
> R' D2 B' U' R' F2 L' D' B U D R2 U B2 R2 U' R2 D' L2 U2
> 
> And this was the solution I was meant to write down, but I wrote the last moves without testing if they were right, and the "solution" I wrote was off by the final M2:
> ...



Do you want a feedback? Are you going to do FMC solves?

A did today 170 solves. I got my best ao50 20.23. I think I'm back to my previous level.


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## muchacho (Feb 13, 2016)

Yes, please. Anyway I won't use Roux for this, I'll try to learn some real FMC techniques for my next comp (that will be next year).


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## h2f (Feb 13, 2016)

I must say that doing FMC I've started with Roux. I was solving with Roux almost half of the year to feel comfortable with Roux and FMC. I have 33 moves solution with pure Roux. And my first try at the competition was with Roux too - 49 moves.

Roux is very good techninique to start with FMC but it has its limits. And the limit is not M moves but the thing that orinetation of the edges you do in the end of the solves. This puts hard limits what you can do and causes Roux is inefficient. That's why I've stopped. But the advantage is that it teaches you to build blocks and operate them. If you take a look at the most common technique in FMC it goes like this: build 2x2x2 block, next build 2x2x3 block, orient edges, do one f2l, put last edge from f2l the way that all edges on top layer are in their places, find insertions. Doing EO after a block gives you more natural continutation and has a very few limits than in Roux. There's a tutorial written by Sebastiono Tronto where are necessery things are mentioned: https://www.speedsolving.com/forum/showthread.php?49162-FMC-a-Candomplete-Tutorial

Look at your solution - it's quite decent.  I wonder why you didnt finished second block with Rw? After FRU and Yperm it would give arrow but it gives me only 1 move shorter solution. So it's ok. My only advice - avoid rotation. Do them only in the beginning. I was doing the same, but I stopped. At the moment I scramble at the orientation I solve (green front yellow top) and I do no rotation. All is matter of practice.


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## mafergut (Feb 13, 2016)

I'm convinced with your arguments in favor of starting directly with M2 edges! 
Not sure that I will ever get fast like you guys (sub 2 minutes or even around 1 minute) but I think it's worth a try.

By the way, Jason, I already received my Yuxin timer and the audio cable and I couldn't make it work with csTimer either. If I connect the some headphones to the timer I can hear some strange frequency that seems to change slightly when the timer is running but not sure if that's what it's supposed to happen, anyway the csTimer page stays at --:-- and nothing happens.


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## muchacho (Feb 13, 2016)

Thanks!

When speedsolving I don't pay attention to the last move of the SB, maybe that's why I didn't do it in that FMC attempt.

What I don't find very appealing is learning algs for last layer, do you think trying to learn Heise would take less effort/time (I would be ok averaging 45 moves or so)?




mafergut said:


> I'm convinced!
> Not sure that I will ever get fast like you guys (sub 2 minutes or even around 1 minute) but I think it's worth a try.


4x4?

Megaminx? 5x5?


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## mafergut (Feb 13, 2016)

muchacho said:


> 4x4?
> 
> Megaminx? 5x5?



3BLD. I hope to get at least a bit closer to 1 minute with 4x4 (around 2:00 right now). Mega and 5x5 clearly no. I would be glad being close to 3-4 minutes on those. I just clarified my post as I see there are some additional posts between the OP/M2 argumentation and when I have finally answered.


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## sqAree (Feb 13, 2016)

When I asked about if it's worth to skip OP for M2 directly Maskow told me I should just learn turbo (or however it's spelled).


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## chtiger (Feb 13, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> Second tip is to adjust for odd/even during memo, not exec. Always memo in letter pairs. On the second letter in each pair, if you hit C, I, S or W, memo the opposite instead - so W, S, I or C respectively. It's so much easier to do this during memo than exec. When you get to execution and you recall an S, you always execute it the same way, regardless of odd or even. So less thinking during exec, which is good, as fewer pauses and fewer mistakes. It also helps when you start bringing in other tricks and comms. Once you get in the habit of just swapping the letters during memo, you never have to think of where the M targets are.


I've got a question about this when using advanced M2. I try to get rid of the BU/FU/BD algs if possible, so for example if I get BU-FU, then I would do U and execute as RU-LU. If I replaced FU during memo with BD, then I'd have BU-BD and I'd do B' and execute as BR-BL, but that's not going to work. How do you deal with stuff like this? Do you have to remember to change it back to its original target if you're going to move it out of it's location. That seems more complicated. Or I am I doing something wrong or missing something simple.


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## h2f (Feb 13, 2016)

mafergut said:


> I'm convinced with your arguments in favor of starting directly with M2 edges!
> Not sure that I will ever get fast like you guys (sub 2 minutes or even around 1 minute) but I think it's worth a try.



I'm sure you will be sub 2 minutes very soon. You will see it. It's a matter of regular practice. 

@muchacho - I don't know Heise so I cant answer. But In my opinion instead of learning algs learn how commutators work and solve like almost every FMC solver does - put the last edge without corner (or whit) and remaing corners solve with comms. If you do that directly it can gives you 8 moves per 3 pieces and 16 per 5 which is much better than algs. I know that only Michał Pleskowicz does last layer with ZBLLs but he knows tons of algs. Writing it - if I remeber well Heise is very good option for FMC. As well as Petrus.

Finished second Ao100 today - new PB ao100 20.74.


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## muchacho (Feb 13, 2016)

So, learning commutators will be.

New PB already? I'll try an Ao100 tomorrow for sure.


_Fun fact, I found Ryan Heise website way before starting cubing, because of http://www.ryanheise.com/colemak/ (but I decided to use Dvorak instead of Colemak)._


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## mark49152 (Feb 13, 2016)

chtiger said:


> I've got a question about this when using advanced M2. I try to get rid of the BU/FU/BD algs if possible, so for example if I get BU-FU, then I would do U and execute as RU-LU. If I replaced FU during memo with BD, then I'd have BU-BD and I'd do B' and execute as BR-BL, but that's not going to work. How do you deal with stuff like this? Do you have to remember to change it back to its original target if you're going to move it out of it's location. That seems more complicated. Or I am I doing something wrong or missing something simple.


Suppose for FU-BU you do U and LU-RU. If you swap letters during memo, you can always use this solution regardless of whether FU occurs on an odd or even target. If it occurs on an even target, you are in fact solving BD-BU, because at that point BD is displaced to FU, but you don't need to care about that at exec time. You only have to think about that one pair. Being able to use comms for even-odd pairs as well as odd-even without thinking is very useful if you're adding comms to basic M2.

Now if FU occurs second in the pair, you must remember to swap it back. So if you had memoed as BU-FU you would always do B' and execute as BR-BL, but again that is regardless of whether the pair is odd-even or even-odd.

Whether it's more complicated or simpler depends how you think, I guess. Instead of having to remember to swap every M slice target if it occurs on an even target, you have to remember that if you're doing a comm or other 2-letter solution and the second in the pair is an M slice target, then you must swap it. For me personally, I find the latter simpler, as the swap depends only on the pair and not on its position in the sequence - each pair always has the same solution.


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## Jason Green (Feb 13, 2016)

mafergut said:


> I'm convinced with your arguments in favor of starting directly with M2 edges!
> Not sure that I will ever get fast like you guys (sub 2 minutes or even around 1 minute) but I think it's worth a try.
> 
> By the way, Jason, I already received my Yuxin timer and the audio cable and I couldn't make it work with csTimer either. If I connect the some headphones to the timer I can hear some strange frequency that seems to change slightly when the timer is running but not sure if that's what it's supposed to happen, anyway the csTimer page stays at --:-- and nothing happens.


Glad I'm not the only one I guess. Yeah Windows had the option to "listen to the input source" or something, and I could here stuff going on from the stackmat also.


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## Lid (Feb 14, 2016)

Mostly doing Sq-1 here ... next step taken today sub20 a50: *19.919*

Next sub20 a100!

best avg50: 19.919 (σ = 1.79) (21 parities)
best avg12: 18.608 (σ = 1.28) (4 p)
best avg5: 18.115 (σ = 1.26) (2 p)
best time: 13.342 (EO skip)



Spoiler: Times



21.304[p], 22.463[p], (13.920), 19.616[p], 18.149, 19.655[p], 19.896, 22.208[p], 21.022[p], 17.329, 20.962, 19.878, 18.349, 20.504, 19.047[p], 17.430[p], (31.515), 20.237, (23.659[p]), 22.118, (23.674[p]), 21.198, 19.904, 23.549[p], 16.206, 22.248[p], 18.991, 19.612[p], 22.598[p], 21.688[p], 17.260, 19.336, 17.491, 21.861[p], 23.078, 19.750, 21.768[p], (13.342), 19.319[p], 17.261, 21.532[p], 19.567, (15.930), 17.517[p], 19.921, 18.989, 19.458[p], 19.311, 18.809, 18.055


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## ryuusei86 (Feb 14, 2016)

Well, I'm still not a speedcuber, but I did spend about two hours restickering puzzles tonight, and am now thoroughly geeked at everything matching. 

At the moment I enjoy solving 4x4 and Square-1 the best, Pyraminx and 2x2 not so much. Though I still haven't found an algorithm to solve 4x4 parity that I can understand, but I'll keep looking. I have another 2x2 and 4x4 on the way from Cubezz, along with a Skewb and a few other toys.

I still have only two 3x3s (a TangLong and a Cyclone Boys), so since this seems to me to be kind of the staple puzzle, I think it makes the most sense for me to buy 6-8 more and just see what I like the best. I do love my TangLong but since this is a hobby where one can spend $100 and get maybe a dozen cubes, I think I'd be foolish not to try a few more. The GuanLong, QiYi Sail, and YuXin Fire are so cheap that there's no point not trying all of them. The Thunderclap gets such rave reviews and is so attractively priced that it seems worth trying also. I have no DaYan puzzles, so I should probably try a few of those as well. Though things like corner-twisting and corner-cutting don't apply to me very much right now, one day they might matter. For now I just want puzzles that don't feel gross or make horrible noises when you turn them.

I don't know much about tools either, but I could always take any 3x3s I don't like as much and try turning them into FrankenCubes, or else trade them away here for something else.


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## muchacho (Feb 14, 2016)

Maybe you could add a 5x5 (Yuxin or Bochuang) and a Megaminx if you don't have one (and a cuboid). But it doesn't have to be at the same time, better one at a time.


I've ordered a stickerless Thunderclap, if I can't "see" the green (colorblind) I'll try replacing it with the black from other Thunderclap. If that doesn't work well I'll try a Meiying and if it's a nice cube I'll buy it stickerless, it's available in more colors.


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## muchacho (Feb 14, 2016)

New PBs on 3x3 today:
- 19.83 mo3 (previous PB was 20.61 set on Jan 20)
- 21.63 ao5 (21.87 from Jan 8)
- 23.13 ao12 (23.83 from Feb 4)
- 25.33 mo100 (26.01 from Jan 20)

It's strange that I beat them all today (single PB was not far also), may be in part because of doing longer sessions, I did like 75 solves in a row (120 total solves today), instead of doing 15-25 like I use to do. And I was ill last 10 days or so, apparently I'm better now, although my head doesn't feel like 100% ok and my eyes feel tired still. Also I learned the L CMLL set a few weeks ago but this is the first time I feel I'm faster with it (at least 5 of the 6 cases) than with 2-look.



Spoiler: mo100 times



100. 27.519 L2 B2 U2 F2 U L2 U2 F2 U2 F U R2 L2 B' R L F' D U'
26.053 U F2 R2 L2 D R2 U L2 D B2 R' U2 R2 L B L' F' D' B2 F2 R
29.550 L2 B2 L2 F2 U2 R2 D F2 D L2 U' F' U B R' F R2 U F' D2 L2
26.958 D2 F2 L2 D' L2 F2 D B2 R2 U B2 R' D' B' F U' L D R' L2 U'
28.045 B2 D U2 R2 D R2 L2 D B2 F2 R2 B' D' U2 F2 D' R' B' U' F' L'
21.342 D F2 U F2 U' L2 D2 B2 R2 U2 F B2 R' B2 F' D B' U B' F2
21.551 L2 B2 L2 D L2 F2 U F2 D L2 D2 F' U2 B2 R B' F U2 L2 D L U
19.310 U L2 D2 F2 L2 U' L2 D' L2 F2 D B U' F' L' B2 U B' R' U' B' D'
22.719 U B2 U' F2 U' B2 U2 R2 B2 U L2 B' D2 B R B D' L' B2 D' F2 U'
22.079 F2 U' R2 U' R2 U2 F2 D F2 U' R2 B' D2 U L' F' U B D L' D' U'
25.014 D F2 D2 R2 D' B2 R2 F2 U B2 U' R U B' L2 D B' L' B2 R L' U2
21.005 L2 U2 B2 F2 U' F2 U B2 U2 F2 L2 B' F2 L' U L2 D' L D F R2 U2
33.110 D2 F2 L2 B2 R2 U L2 U' R2 B2 F2 R B2 D F L' B F2 R' L' F2
26.157 R2 D' B2 F2 L2 D B2 R2 B2 D U' R D2 B' U R2 U' F' R L2 U
25.446 R2 U F2 U R2 D L2 F2 U B2 U' R D2 F2 D R' L2 U2 R2 L2 U'
24.238 R2 B2 U L2 U' F2 L2 D2 R2 D' F U R' D R2 U F' R L U
30.806 U F2 D2 R2 D2 U F2 R2 U' L2 U2 R' B2 F R2 L D2 L D' U' L2 F'
27.150 R2 B2 U F2 D' B2 L2 D2 U L2 U' R' L2 U' B U2 L' D' R U' F' D
24.975 U R2 U L2 F2 D' R2 L2 U F2 U2 L' U2 F2 L' F' U R F L D
21.151 L2 D R2 U R2 B2 D' F2 D2 F2 U' L B' R2 B F2 U R2 B' U L'
26.254 D' B2 D' U' L2 B2 U' L2 F2 U R2 F U' L B' F2 L' U L2 B R2 U'
29.367 R2 U F2 R2 F2 D2 F2 U R2 U' F2 L D B U' R2 L' F' R2 L' F2
25.999 B2 D R2 L2 U F2 D L2 D B2 D2 R' D R2 U2 L' B' F L F2 L
21.453 D' L2 D B2 L2 U B2 D2 R2 D' R2 B' U F L2 F2 L' U' L' F2 D'
25.183 L2 F2 R2 L2 U' R2 B2 L2 U2 L B' F2 D L2 D' R D F R U'
21.663 L2 D2 L2 F2 D R2 L2 D' R2 U2 F2 R' U2 L F' D' B F2 R' F2 L2
24.655 U R2 B2 D' R2 U' F2 U F2 U' R2 F' D' B' R' F L2 U2 L2 B
23.367 D' F2 R2 B2 F2 U L2 D2 R2 D2 U' F L2 U' F2 R' D2 U2 R D2 L2
22.598 D2 F2 D R2 D' U2 R2 B2 R2 U' R' D' F D' U2 F' L D U'
18.935 B2 F2 R2 F2 U2 L2 D' F2 D' B2 U' R' F2 R' B D2 B2 L2 D' L2 F' U'
17.951 U' F2 U' R2 U' B2 F2 L2 U F2 D R' U F' R' B2 D B' R2 D
27.622 B2 D' F2 L2 D F2 D' U2 B2 D2 L2 B' D2 F2 U L2 B2 U' R F' U
27.431 L2 B2 R2 D' U' R2 F2 D' F2 U2 R2 B D' B F' D F' U2 R L
32.204 D F2 U' R2 F2 D' B2 D F2 D2 U' L' B L2 F' D2 L D' U2 F2 U2
23.238 U' B2 U R2 D2 B2 F2 U' L2 U' B L' U R F2 D' B2 F L2 U2 R'
23.327 U R2 D' L2 U2 F2 D' R2 B2 R2 B2 R' D' B2 R' F' D' R U2 F' R' U
22.269 R2 F2 D' L2 U R2 B2 U' R2 F2 D F' D' R D' L' B2 U2 F' R' U
19.270 R2 U R2 U2 R2 F2 R2 B2 U F2 U2 F' R L' F' R2 U2 B F2 U B2 D'
28.062 F2 U L2 B2 F2 D F2 D' B2 F2 U' B' L' U2 R' F L' U F' L2 U'
21.125 U2 L2 F2 U' R2 D' B2 D2 F2 D F2 L U' F R' U B2 U2 B F2 D2 U'
24.728 D' U' L2 D2 R2 U' R2 B2 L2 B2 L' F' D' F R U2 F' R B F2 D
24.414 D2 R2 D2 F2 R2 F2 U' F2 L2 F2 L2 B U' F2 D' U' F U' R' F' L' U'
26.262 B2 F2 L2 D F2 D' B2 L2 B2 U R2 B' D' L' D L2 F' D F' D2 R2 U
25.783 U R2 F2 R2 D2 F2 D' L2 D L2 D2 F' D B F D2 R B D' L' D U
25.622 B2 D2 R2 L2 D F2 R2 U' R2 D F2 L' F2 R' F D' F U' B' U2 R2 U'
24.476 R2 D R2 U' F2 R2 D U2 B2 R2 D' B' D U2 B2 R D' R2 L B' L D2
25.894 D B2 L2 U B2 D' B2 U' L2 B2 L2 B R2 L2 D' B' R' B2 R' F' D'
24.222 R2 L2 U' F2 D' F2 D2 B2 R2 D L2 B R2 F' R' F' R2 D F2 D2 R2
24.453 D' R2 U2 L2 D F2 L2 D' F2 R2 U' R F U2 R D' U' B2 U2 R F' U2
24.583 U L2 U F2 D2 L2 F2 D F2 U B2 L' U R U2 F' U L2 U R' L' U2
23.854 D L2 F2 R2 D2 L2 F2 D' U2 F2 D F' D F L2 D2 F' U2 R' L B L'
24.206 U' B2 L2 F2 D R2 D R2 D R2 U' F' U' L F2 R' U L B L' F' U2
27.486 F2 D' B2 L2 U L2 U R2 D2 L2 D L' D U F R U' F R2 L2 D2
28.278 L2 U B2 U' F2 U' B2 D F2 D' L' B' D R2 F D' R2 B2 U' B
29.589 B2 R2 F2 D F2 U' B2 D' B2 U2 L B L' F U R' L U2 F2 R2
25.055 B2 F2 D2 U' B2 D B2 R2 F2 U2 R' B' F' U' R U B2 U2 R' D' U'
22.775 D2 U B2 R2 U' L2 B2 R2 B2 U R2 F U' R' U B' L2 U B2 L F L2
25.182 L2 D L2 D2 L2 F2 U' R2 B2 L2 U R' D' U' B R U' R2 L' D' B
26.256 B2 D2 B2 R2 U' B2 L2 D B2 U' F' L D2 L2 B U' B2 D2 F U'
26.703 U' F2 U B2 U R2 F2 U2 F2 D2 U2 B' F' R' F U' L' U2 L D F' U'
22.183 B2 R2 D2 L2 D' U' B2 U B2 R2 U F R2 D B' R' D2 R' L' D2 B2 D
24.286 U' R2 F2 D' B2 D' R2 U B2 U' L2 F' D2 L D B2 R2 F2 U' R' B
27.061 D2 L2 D B2 D' U' R2 D' B2 U' B2 L' D2 U' R U F' L U F2 U'
26.566 D2 B2 R2 B2 R2 F2 L2 D R2 B2 F2 L' F' R2 U R D' B2 L D F' U
23.750 D L2 D L2 B2 U' F2 L2 D L2 D B' R' U2 F' U2 B' D L F
22.094 F2 D' R2 B2 D' B2 D2 L2 U2 R2 U' B L' B' U2 R' U' B2 L F2 L2 U'
21.520 F2 D' F2 U L2 F2 U' R2 U L2 U F L' B2 F' L2 B D' F R' F
25.386 B2 U L2 B2 U' B2 U' R2 L2 F2 D' L' D L' U B R D2 L' U' R2
26.615 B2 L2 F2 L2 U' L2 D2 B2 U L2 U F' U' R U' F' D' L' F2 R L
27.966 B2 D' L2 B2 D B2 U' R2 D' L2 D R' B2 F' U L2 B D2 U2 R2 F2 U'
18.495 D' B2 R2 D' R2 F2 U R2 F2 R2 U' F R D B D2 F2 L' B' D R'
29.598 F2 D R2 U' B2 F2 L2 U' F2 U R2 F R' B' R' D' B L2 F D' F2
22.294 L2 U' F2 D B2 U F2 U2 L2 D' B2 R U L2 D2 F2 U2 B U' R2 U2
25.646 L2 D2 L2 D B2 D2 U F2 D' R2 L2 F' U2 L' B2 R' B' U L F2 L
27.967 U2 L2 U' F2 U' B2 R2 D' L2 U R2 F U B' F' R2 B' U2 L' D' R' U
29.958 U2 F2 D L2 B2 U B2 D2 B2 R2 D2 F' L D2 U R' B2 L F R2 B' U'
28.021 D' F2 D' R2 U' B2 L2 B2 U F2 U' L B' R' D' U F U' F2 U2 B U'
39.597 F2 R2 U2 B2 L2 D' U' F2 L2 U' B2 L' U2 R L2 B' L D2 B' D' L D2
27.374 D' L2 F2 D F2 U2 F2 L2 U' B2 U2 R B U B2 R2 D R' D U2 F'
21.375 F2 L2 D B2 U2 R2 U B2 R2 U2 B' R' B2 L' D2 B' L D B' D2
38.879 U' L2 U2 R2 D L2 U B2 U R2 U F U' F U L U' R2 F' D' R' U
23.167 D' U F2 R2 L2 U2 B2 L2 U F2 U' L D B' R' D2 R' D' B2 L' B2 F
29.445 D' L2 B2 L2 D U' L2 F2 L2 U L2 F D' R2 D' L' U L U' L U2
23.463 R2 B2 L2 F2 D L2 D' U2 L2 F2 L2 F' D' L D' U' R' D' L U L
22.271 B2 F2 U' L2 D' F2 D2 L2 D L2 U B' L2 F U B2 L' B' R' L' U2
23.503 R2 U B2 L2 U2 L2 D F2 R2 L2 U L D' L' U2 R F D2 R2 F L
25.487 L2 F2 U2 F2 U B2 U2 R2 F2 L2 F2 L D2 L F D' B2 F2 L' F D2
29.030 F2 D B2 R2 F2 R2 D' F2 L2 F2 U2 L' F' R' U R2 B F2 R U2 L'
30.539 U' F2 D L2 F2 U' R2 B2 U' B2 U F U2 R' L U L2 F R' U2 F U
22.687 R2 U' F2 U R2 U' R2 U' L2 B2 D R' D' R D B2 L' F' R' L U2
33.222 D2 R2 D2 F2 L2 F2 U' R2 L2 D' L F R' F L2 D' B' R D' F U2
24.198 D R2 U2 L2 U2 B2 D U' F2 U2 F' D2 U F2 L' D' R B' U R2
25.799 F2 L2 B2 L2 U' R2 B2 D' F2 R2 U' R' D B D2 U' B D2 F U2 F U'
24.911 D' B2 D L2 U2 R2 D' R2 F2 L2 F2 R B' U' F' U2 L B' U2 B F
21.495 U2 L2 D2 R2 F2 L2 F2 L2 D2 F' L' F' U R2 B D U2 B' F2 U'
24.686 U L2 D2 U L2 D' R2 U' F2 R2 U' B R' D2 R2 L' B U B L' U
26.639 F2 R2 B2 D' U2 R2 U' F2 U' B2 U B' L' D U B' D B F2 L' B'
20.365 F2 D' B2 U R2 D2 B2 L2 D2 F2 D R' B L' F2 R' B F2 D2 B F
23.048 U2 B2 U R2 D' B2 U L2 U' F2 D2 R' F' R' B2 F' R B' L U' B2 U2
1. 26.750 L2 U' B2 F2 U' L2 B2 D2 L2 U' L2 B' L' F' R' D' L2 D F U F2 U


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## h2f (Feb 14, 2016)

I think that when you do more solves in a row, you stop as much thinking and your solves become more automatic. I've notice it yesterday.


----------



## muchacho (Feb 14, 2016)

I'll try to do longer sessions more frequently, maybe just 50 solves, I get tired when doing more than that and I can't do more than 100 everyday... well, at least not until I average less than 10 seconds


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## ryuusei86 (Feb 14, 2016)

muchacho said:


> Maybe you could add a 5x5 (Yuxin or Bochuang) and a Megaminx if you don't have one (and a cuboid). But it doesn't have to be at the same time, better one at a time.


Megaminx frankly terrifies me. So do mirror blocks, but I've ordered a 2x2 one anyway just in case I like it after all. The 5x5 will probably happen eventually, but I hope nothing larger than that. As for cuboids, I hear that the 2x3x3 is the most common first purchase for beginners.

Meanwhile, after filing off the flash on the core and lubing and tensioning it, the Cyclone Boys 3x3 is noticeably better, though still not as good as the TangLong. I'm thinking of seeing whether I can get little washers for it at Home Depot. The Cyclone Boys 4x4 is also gradually getting better as others here have said it would, but I'm still curious to see what the GuanSu will be like in comparison.

ETA: Forgot to mention that I also want one of these things.


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## muchacho (Feb 14, 2016)

Megaminx looks much scarier than it is (is probably even easier for a CFOP solver, I'm still solving it a piece at a time instead of inserting pairs like in 3x3 F2L), until last layer is easy... and last layer is not difficult at all -> tutorial https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aWI6Bdao5Y4


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## mafergut (Feb 14, 2016)

muchacho said:


> Megaminx looks much scarier than it is (is probably even easier for a CFOP solver, I'm still solving it a piece at a time instead of inserting pairs like in 3x3 F2L), until last layer is easy... and last layer is not difficult at all -> tutorial https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aWI6Bdao5Y4



Yeah, Megaminx is a lot of fun but I agree that solving 3x3 with CFOP is a big plus to start with. Anyway, I still spend more than half the time looking around for pieces instead of solving and my lookahead is 0. But with the ShengShou it's a bit better. With the YJ Yuhu (black version) I wasn't even able to spot the dang edges, as the stickers on those are soo tiny. Also the Yuhu is so wobbly. The SS is more stable but it catches a lot unless you are willing to spend some good hours modding it (and breathing plastic powder).


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## chtiger (Feb 14, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> Suppose for FU-BU you do U and LU-RU. If you swap letters during memo, you can always use this solution regardless of whether FU occurs on an odd or even target. If it occurs on an even target, you are in fact solving BD-BU, because at that point BD is displaced to FU, but you don't need to care about that at exec time. You only have to think about that one pair. Being able to use comms for even-odd pairs as well as odd-even without thinking is very useful if you're adding comms to basic M2.
> 
> Now if FU occurs second in the pair, you must remember to swap it back. So if you had memoed as BU-FU you would always do B' and execute as BR-BL, but again that is regardless of whether the pair is odd-even or even-odd.
> 
> Whether it's more complicated or simpler depends how you think, I guess. Instead of having to remember to swap every M slice target if it occurs on an even target, you have to remember that if you're doing a comm or other 2-letter solution and the second in the pair is an M slice target, then you must swap it. For me personally, I find the latter simpler, as the swap depends only on the pair and not on its position in the sequence - each pair always has the same solution.



Thanks, that clears things up for me. So it requires that you swap the target back if it's the 2nd of a pair that you are executing together. It would take a little practice to get used to, but it's nothing complicated. And I've always just executed one pair at a time (during memo and memo recall, not necessarily executing the pair together), so didn't fully realize the benefit of the targets staying the same if it was odd-even or even-odd.


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## Logiqx (Feb 14, 2016)

It took 3 days of trying to catch a sub-16 Ao5 on camera but I got it eventually. lol






Two days running with an 11.x PLL skip but that's just lucky.


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## Logiqx (Feb 14, 2016)

ryuusei86 said:


> I still have only two 3x3s (a TangLong and a Cyclone Boys), so since this seems to me to be kind of the staple puzzle, I think it makes the most sense for me to buy 6-8 more and just see what I like the best. I do love my TangLong but since this is a hobby where one can spend $100 and get maybe a dozen cubes, I think I'd be foolish not to try a few more. The GuanLong, QiYi Sail, and YuXin Fire are so cheap that there's no point not trying all of them. The Thunderclap gets such rave reviews and is so attractively priced that it seems worth trying also. I have no DaYan puzzles, so I should probably try a few of those as well. Though things like corner-twisting and corner-cutting don't apply to me very much right now, one day they might matter. For now I just want puzzles that don't feel gross or make horrible noises when you turn them.
> 
> I don't know much about tools either, but I could always take any 3x3s I don't like as much and try turning them into FrankenCubes, or else trade them away here for something else.



I got the GuoGuan YueXiao this week and I doubt I will go back to my TangLong(s) or HuaLong(s). Have a look at the online reviews and be sure to give it a go!


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## ryuusei86 (Feb 15, 2016)

Great. Just when I was trying to "narrow it down" to "only" 7-8 more 3x3s.


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## MarcelP (Feb 15, 2016)

Logiqx said:


> It took 3 days of trying to catch a sub-16 Ao5 on camera but I got it eventually. lol
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dy1XFOf8klU
> 
> Two days running with an 11.x PLL skip but that's just lucky.



Nice full step 13! (the 16 and 15 before that where both OLL skips  ) I will try to film a few fast solves also this week.


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## Jason Green (Feb 15, 2016)

I have been thinking I'd give an overall update on my cubing life for a while, so here goes. 

I finally finished learning full OLL. Still have a 2 or 3 that are slow because I have to think too much, but they are there. My average is stuck right around 23-24. With that average if I do an ao100 I'll usually pop above 25 once or twice on ao12. And with the pressure during my weekly race to sub 25 it's making it difficult! I just got in a 24.86 for this week after DNF last week. That's ok though because even if I graduate I'll be quite a while till I can approach the sub 20 average.

After learning full OLL I feel like I can give myself permission to learn other cube stuff. I think I'm different than a lot of cubers in that I don't want to get into too much at once, and I'm sure it would probably even be good practice, but I just can't. If I have too much that I'm shooting for at once it gets too frustrating for me.

So I'm actually practicing 2x2 some now and that's fun. I'm going to the KC event in April and signed up for it there. I signed up before I could even do it without cheat sheets, but it only took me about an afternoon to straighten out those algs in my head.  I'm averaging like 18 seconds on that, with an occasional 8 or 9 second, and an occasional 50+ second when I get the algs all messed up and do it wrong a few times in a single solve!

I also decided to watch some more 4x4 tutorials and have gotten a lot more interested in that! I really like the Hoya method, and the 3-2-3 edge pairing is wonderful compared to the first way I "learned" (term used loosely). I had some frustration when I kept getting 2 final edges instead of 3, but I finally found a video to help me through that. I still have to fully memorize the parity algs, but I might do my first real timed solve soon. I even asked if I could add it as a late event for KC if I get under the 2:30 hard cutoff, which I'm not sure if I can. What's the difference in a hard and soft cutoff anyway? Maybe I'll film a 5 or 6 minute 4x4 solve, it'd be kind of like sharing those early 40-50 second 3x3 vids (only more boring!).

I keep enjoying all the awesome stuff from this thread! Nice sub 16 ao5 Mike (if you made it this far reading).


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## EvilGnome6 (Feb 15, 2016)

Jason Green said:


> What's the difference in a hard and soft cutoff anyway?



Soft Cutoff:

You have two attempts to beat the soft cutoff. If you beat it, you are permitted to take the remaining 3 attempts for your average of 5. 
For 6x6 and 7x7, you only have 1 attempt to beat the soft cutoff before you can complete your mean of 3.

Hard Cutoff:

If you don't complete the solve before the hard cutoff, the judge will stop you and record your solve as a DNF.


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## Jason Green (Feb 15, 2016)

EvilGnome6 said:


> Soft Cutoff:
> 
> You have two attempts to beat the soft cutoff. If you beat it, you are permitted to take the remaining 3 attempts for your average of 5.
> For 6x6 and 7x7, you only have 1 attempt to beat the soft cutoff before you can complete your mean of 3.
> ...


Thanks! I was about to cry for help to you about my edge pairing issues, but I think I got is straight... Maybe.


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## Jason Green (Feb 15, 2016)

First actual timed 4x4 solve, 5:58:10 

Update: Second solve 4:36:31... Yeah I might get hooked, been a long time since I improved a cubing PB by 1 minute


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## MarcelP (Feb 15, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> Suppose for FU-BU you do U and LU-RU.



Hey, that sounds interesting. I have no cube on me to test this... but I did not use M2 because those annoying algs in de M layer targets. Do you also have a trick like this for BD? I might actually start doing M2 then 



mark49152 said:


> If you swap letters during memo, you can always use this solution regardless of whether FU occurs on an odd or even target. If it occurs on an even target, you are in fact solving BD-BU, because at that point BD is displaced to FU, but you don't need to care about that at exec time.



That's very nifty. So you have nothing to worry about during execution, if you just pay attention for the M-slice targets during memo. Brilliant stuff Mark!


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## muchacho (Feb 15, 2016)

Jason Green said:


> I finally finished learning full OLL.


Already full OLL? Next COLL, EPLL, WV and OLLCP, right? 



Jason Green said:


> I even asked if I could add it as a late event for KC if I get under the 2:30 hard cutoff, which I'm not sure if I can.


In April? don't worry, sure you can, I've done less than 150 solves and I'm almost at 2:30 using simple reduction and building 1 edge pair at a time.


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## Jason Green (Feb 15, 2016)

muchacho said:


> Already full OLL? Next COLL, EPLL, WV and OLLCP, right?[emoji14]
> 
> In April? don't worry, sure you can, I've done less than 150 solves and I'm almost at 2:30 using simple reduction and building 1 edge pair at a time.


I don't know what's next for 3x3, just learning to look ahead more I think. 

That's encouraging, I probably did as many solves today as I did in the first six months I had the cube, which is only 7 or 8.


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## Logiqx (Feb 15, 2016)

MarcelP said:


> Nice full step 13! (the 16 and 15 before that where both OLL skips  ) I will try to film a few fast solves also this week.



The 15 was a C-shape OLL but I used U' U as the setup.


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## h2f (Feb 15, 2016)

MarcelP said:


> Hey, that sounds interesting. I have no cube on me to test this... but I did not use M2 because those annoying algs in de M layer targets. Do you also have a trick like this for BD? I might actually start doing


Of course. For BD BU do B or B' and you got easy case BL BR. But its worth to learn all those algs. For BD i often do setup B or B' but its up of Next target. 

patataj patataj patataj


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## mafergut (Feb 15, 2016)

@Mike: Nice Ao5! I'm sure in a couple years I will film one myself 
I'm waiting for my YueXiao (and other stuff) to arrive after the Chinese New Year. The package in on its way now. Hope to have it in a couple weeks.

@Ruy86, please, buy them one by one or at most two at a time or you will spoil all those "new cube" moments! hehehe

@Jason: Congrats on your full OLL achievement! Regarding the average it will go down with practice, I'm sure you will be racing for sub-20 before the summer starts. Well, every one of us has their walls at different points, mine is clearly at around 19.5 average more or less and it's being difficult to overcome, the more so now that I'm practising too many new things at the same time, and not progressing much at any of those because time gets so spread... Some events I just do the WC solves in the whole week, like with pyra, skewb and 5x5. By the way, I'm glad to hear that you're also practising 2x2 and 4x4. With 4x4 I think you can easily get under 2:30. I'm using Yau with 6-2 pairing (I haven't been able to force myself to seriously try 3-2-3 yet) and, without much practise I am now confortably under 2:30 like in 80% of the solves, barely sub 2:00 on the best ones, so you can do it as well. And the secret is not feeling embarrased by your initial times. Hey, I started to compete in 5x5 two weeks ago with just 3 timed solves under my sleeve and got 10 minute solves, so what? Now I shaved off 3 minutes in the next 5 solves  My 1st timed solve at 4x4 was much worse than yours, by the way.

Regarding what's next in 3x3 I wouldn't waste too much time learning things like WV. COLL only some cases or if you are gonna take OH seriously. I would focus on cross-to-F2L transition and lookahead in general and fast LL.


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## mark49152 (Feb 15, 2016)

MarcelP said:


> Hey, that sounds interesting. I have no cube on me to test this... but I did not use M2 because those annoying algs in de M layer targets. Do you also have a trick like this for BD? I might actually start doing M2 then


Yeah, as Grzegorz said, you can set up to BR or BL, but there's a better trick to handling those BD and FU targets.

Usually, to solve some non-M-slice piece, you do (s) M2 (s') where s is the setup for that piece. Now suppose the piece before it is BD. Instead of solving as above, do M2 (s) M' (s') M'. That way you solve BD at the same time as the following piece, only adding two moves - yay! When first learning M2, those stickers look like the hardest ones, but actually they're the easiest .

If you swap the M targets during memo as I suggest, the above trick works regardless of whether you're on an odd or even target. So using Speffz for BD-FL for me would be "SL" and I'd solve as above. Now suppose I got UL-FU-FL-UR. Memo would be "DS LB" because FU occurs as an even target so I would memo as S, not I. Here, during exec, I could use exactly the same trick to solve "SL" together even though it spans two letter pairs. No need to worry about odd/even at exec time, and better chance of solving the M target efficiently because you can combine with the piece on either side of it.

See my M2 guide for more details: https://www.speedsolving.com/forum/showthread.php?56076-Advanced-M2-guide

Having said that, you still need to know those M slice algs for the rare occasions you can't solve the targets more efficiently. They really are not that bad - they have simple patterns that are easy to remember.

I know I say this a lot, but it really is a myth that M2 is significantly harder than OP edges!


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## h2f (Feb 15, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> Yeah, as Grzegorz said, you can set up to BR or BL, but there's a better trick to handling those BD and FU targets.
> 
> Usually, to solve some non-M-slice piece, you do (s) M2 (s') where s is the setup for that piece. Now suppose the piece before it is BD. Instead of solving as above, do M2 (s) M' (s') M'. That way you solve BD at the same time as the following piece, only adding two moves - yay! When first learning M2, those stickers look like the hardest ones, but actually they're the easiest .



I was hoping you will mention it. I do that trick very seldom and I'm not good in it. It has a great potential. I must add it.

On the other hand Marcel, mind the other trick for FU-BD - you do the alg without M2 but whit rotation x. That's why it's worth to know it and it's inverse. These algs have both potential.


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## Shaky Hands (Feb 15, 2016)

EvilGnome6 said:


> Soft Cutoff:
> 
> You have two attempts to beat the soft cutoff. If you beat it, you are permitted to take the remaining 3 attempts for your average of 5.
> For 6x6 and 7x7, you only have 1 attempt to beat the soft cutoff before you can complete your mean of 3.
> ...



I'm curious how consistently Hard Cutoffs are enforced. There seems to be several results on the WCA site where times are recorded that are greater than the Hard Cutoff listed for an event on cubecomps.

Is it the case that you may be allowed to go beyond the Hard Cutoff but that if you do, you're just liable to be DNF'd. i.e. They might count it anyway if there isn't an excessive time pressure?


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## mafergut (Feb 15, 2016)

Reading you explain all those tricks one really feels compelled to learn M2, sadly I have so little time lately... but I will find time sooner or later


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## EvilGnome6 (Feb 15, 2016)

Shaky Hands said:


> I'm curious how consistently Hard Cutoffs are enforced. There seems to be several results on the WCA site where times are recorded that are greater than the Hard Cutoff listed for an event on cubecomps.
> 
> Is it the case that you may be allowed to go beyond the Hard Cutoff but that if you do, you're just liable to be DNF'd. i.e. They might count it anyway if there isn't an excessive time pressure?



If there are incidents where a time greater than the cutoff is recorded, it's probably human error. It's also possible they raised the limit but I think all competitors should be held to the same cutoff times.


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## Shaky Hands (Feb 15, 2016)

Just realising that the cutoff on cubecomps seems to be the soft cutoff. Although there are some times on WCA that would seem to beyond usual hard cutoff times in some regions. Just curious anyway.


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## mark49152 (Feb 15, 2016)

Shaky Hands said:


> I'm curious how consistently Hard Cutoffs are enforced. There seems to be several results on the WCA site where times are recorded that are greater than the Hard Cutoff listed for an event on cubecomps.
> 
> Is it the case that you may be allowed to go beyond the Hard Cutoff but that if you do, you're just liable to be DNF'd. i.e. They might count it anyway if there isn't an excessive time pressure?


Cut offs differ between comps so there's no global inconsistency, but within a comp, it should be handled consistently. It would be unfair for one competitor to be stopped when another is allowed to complete the solve and record an official time above the cut off in the same comp. Judges can understandably be reluctant to stop someone, but the delegate ought to check when they enter the times; if they choose to record a time over the cut off then they should make sure nobody else was DNFed in that round for going over.


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## Shaky Hands (Feb 15, 2016)

They could maybe save more time in a comp if they allowed someone to go beyond the Hard Cutoff in a first solve in exchange for a DNF in the second.

e.g.: instead of a 5x5 comp with a strict Hard Cut of 5 minutes, allow someone to register a 6 minute first solve but then not attempt a second solve. If 6 minutes is their usual average time anyway, that would mean 6 minutes total solving and 1 registered score rather than 10 minutes total solving and no registered score. They'd miss the Average Cut either way, so no change there.

Anyway, I'm just "thinking out loud" here. I agree any rules need to be applied consistently within each competition.


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## Jason Green (Feb 15, 2016)

There is a note on the KC comp that cutoffs may change as late as right before the round. Maybe if they do that cubecomps doesn't always get updated?


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## h2f (Feb 15, 2016)

Cutoffs change sometimes due to number of competitors. In 2 weeks I got a comp with a very easy cutoffs and I think organizers gonna change it due to small number of comptetitors (40 of 80).


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## newtonbase (Feb 15, 2016)

In 5x5 I got 2 solves just over hard cut-off at the UK Championships and both were recorded. I think if someone is about to finish you may as well let them and a time is as easy to record as a DNF. But, at Manchester I finished 3 secs over and the judge DNF'd it.


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## Selkie (Feb 15, 2016)

Logiqx said:


> It took 3 days of trying to catch a sub-16 Ao5 on camera but I got it eventually. lol
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dy1XFOf8klU
> 
> Two days running with an 11.x PLL skip but that's just lucky.



Congratulations, nice average and I can completely relate to pressure of getting good averages on film!! 



Jason Green said:


> I finally finished learning full OLL. Still have a 2 or 3 that are slow because I have to think too much, but they are there. .



Great stuff, always great getting that task complete as it always looks so daunting at the beginning.



Well we are away on leave and getting a bit of cubing practice in between hot tub sessions. Have just placed a big order for the following so looking forward to receiving that and may even do an unboxing video. 

1 x Cong's Design MeiYing () =
Color Black
1 x QiYi Thunderclap 3x3 () = 
Color Black
1 x Replacement Battery for SpeedStacks Pro Timer () = 
1 x QiYi Bullfight 3x3 () = 
Color Stickerless
1 x GuoGuan YueXiao () =
Color Stickerless
1 x MoYu AoFu 7x7 () = 
Color Black
5 x Cubicle Bag (Size 6) () =
Color Purple
1 x MoYu AoLong GT () = 
Color Black
1 x X-Man Tornado () = 
Color Black
1 x Cubicle T-Shirt () = 
Size XL
1 x Gans 356 Center Caps V2 () = 
Color Black
1 x Gans 356 Weights Set () = 
1 x Cubicle YueXiao () = 
Color Black
1 x Cyclone Boys 4x4 G4 () = 
Color Stickerless (Bright)


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## MarcelP (Feb 16, 2016)

Nice order  Did you get it with 'rush'?


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## Jason Green (Feb 16, 2016)

Wow, I think you just went through at least 6 months of new cube moments on that.


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## ryuusei86 (Feb 16, 2016)

Well, I have zero bragging rights about the orders I placed today (seeing what Selkie posted). I've settled on six 3x3s for now: the cheap but supposedly pretty good anyway (YuXin Fire, YJ GuanLong), the highly rated (QiYi Thunderclap), and my first three DaYan puzzles (ZhanChi, GuHong v1, LunHui). My two criteria were price and making orders from as few stores as possible. My list would look somewhat more impressive if I listed all the other puzzles, but I won't. I can expect shipments from Cubezz, FastTech, and The Cubicle.

I've never made an unboxing video before, but I love watching other people's (will definitely watch Selkie's too), so maybe I'll give it a shot. I have only a cheap webcam and no tripod, but you have to start somewhere.


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## h2f (Feb 16, 2016)

Logiqx said:


> It took 3 days of trying to catch a sub-16 Ao5 on camera but I got it eventually. lol
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dy1XFOf8klU
> 
> Two days running with an 11.x PLL skip but that's just lucky.



I've missed it. Great!


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## mafergut (Feb 16, 2016)

Yeah, you totalled owned me and the order I'm waiting for, that I think I already mentioned here anyway, with a Yuexiao, Tornado, SS Gigaminx, SS 3x3 mirrorblocks, Yuxin 2x2, QiYi Pyra and YJ Guansu.


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## muchacho (Feb 16, 2016)

Wow, a very lucky 5:46 single (second best is 7:12) at Megaminx 

Best ao12 is still bad (7:56), but improving.


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## mafergut (Feb 16, 2016)

muchacho said:


> Wow, a very lucky 5:46 single (second best is 7:12) at Megaminx
> 
> Best ao12 is still bad (7:56), but improving.



Race to sub-5?


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## muchacho (Feb 16, 2016)

Sub-5 single or ao12? if it's average it may be difficult for me (I'm not even going to try to learn to build pairs for now), my plan is doing 6 solves every day until I average less than 6 minutes.


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## MarcelP (Feb 16, 2016)

muchacho said:


> Wow, a very lucky 5:46 single (second best is 7:12) at Megaminx
> 
> Best ao12 is still bad (7:56), but improving.


I take around 30 minutes so you are fine here


----------



## mafergut (Feb 16, 2016)

muchacho said:


> Sub-5 single or ao12? if it's average it may be difficult for me (I'm not even going to try to learn to build pairs for now), my plan is doing 6 solves every day until I average less than 6 minutes.



I was just kidding but if you wanna give it a go I don't mind either one of those or other like Ao5 or Mo3. Of course if it is Ao12 it will take much longer. I also only do the 5 solves in the WC and even this past week I could not find the time to do Mega as I'm trying to do more and more time consuming events (at least for me) like 5x5 and the relays, etc.



MarcelP said:


> I take around 30 minutes so you are fine here



I'm sure you're exaggerating by a lot


----------



## muchacho (Feb 16, 2016)

So 6 solves a day against 5 solves a week? it seems fair to me, let's go! 

I'm trying to focus in 1 or 2 events at a time, I would probably improve less than 0 if I only did 5 solves each week.


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## mafergut (Feb 16, 2016)

muchacho said:


> So 6 solves a day against 5 solves a week? it seems fair to me, let's go!
> 
> I'm trying to focus in 1 or 2 events at a time, I would probably improve less than 0 if I only did 5 solves each week.



I know what you mean. I'm trying to practice too many new events and progress is quite slow. In skewb and pyra I have stumbled aroud 15 average and in 4x4 and 5x5 I can't get even close to decent times yet. The same with Mega.

So, it's a race! 

EDIT: Sorry, but... was it a race to Ao12? Because, I'm afraid, if it is single, I was doing the WC#07 scrambles and on my 1st solve (yes, 1st Mega solve in two weeks, as last week I didn't do Mega) I got a quite easy LL and stopped the timer at 4:22.38. I don't have it on cam but trust me, it's real! The only explanation is that 5x5 practise has helped my lookahead on mega and the super-easy LL I got (it was just F 2-sexy F' to orient edges, 2 sunes to permute edges, one Niklas to permute corners and voilá, all corners were already oriented


----------



## ryuusei86 (Feb 17, 2016)

I feel bad about bringing up my n00bness, but I just now solved the first two layers on a 3x3 cube completely by inspection, first solving one 1x2x3 side, then the opposite 1x2x3 side, and then the middle two layers between them. There was tons of trial and error, but this might be a breakthrough. As I recall this is something like the Roux method.

I then got greedy and just solved the last layer with the beginners' method, but maybe I should have left that middle slice free instead of solving it, and instead solved what I could of the last layer using the slice and the U face. I will give it a try later.


----------



## Jason Green (Feb 17, 2016)

ryuusei86 said:


> I feel bad about bringing up my n00bness, but I just now solved the first two layers on a 3x3 cube completely by inspection, first solving one 1x2x3 side, then the opposite 1x2x3 side, and then the middle two layers between them. There was tons of trial and error, but this might be a breakthrough. As I recall this is something like the Roux method.
> 
> I then got greedy and just solved the last layer with the beginners' method, but maybe I should have left that middle slice free instead of solving it, and instead solved what I could of the last layer using the slice and the U face. I will give it a try later.


Cool! Yeah I think that's like Roux although I don't know it. I probably would have a very hard time doing that middle later stuff!


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## muchacho (Feb 17, 2016)

Leaving the middle slice unsolved until the end (and being able to use it while building the blocks) is why Roux is good.

After finishing the 2 blocks try to solve corners of last layer and then see this videos:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=41exX3f76N8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pLr4n2HooVI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M23uuqkiVUA

You can practice that part scrambling only with <M, U> moves.


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## h2f (Feb 17, 2016)

@Jason Green

I've relearnt dot cases in OLLs. I havent used them and finally forgot but realized I need to know them - it's better. Now I finally know all OLLs and PLLs.


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## MarcelP (Feb 17, 2016)

mafergut said:


> I'm sure you're exaggerating by a lot



No, I can only solve Megaminx intuitively, So lot's of trial and error with Sune, anti Sune  It takes that long.


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## mafergut (Feb 17, 2016)

MarcelP said:


> No, I can only solve Megaminx intuitively, So lot's of trial and error with Sune, anti Sune  It takes that long.



I know what you mean. I started that way and slowly started to make it more sistematic but it still is a 4 step last layer where I have to apply the same alg several times per step so, the difference from a very lucky LL like the one in my new PB yesterday of 4:22.xx and a bad one can be over a minute.

Orienting edges is easy, you have basically 3 cases and all of them can be solved with FRUR'U'F' or variants of that. For permuting edges I just use sune or antisune, but as this only cycles 3 edges I might need from just 1 or 2 up to 5-6 sunes, then I use an adaptation of Niklas to permute corners, that has the same problem, it only cycles 3 corners, so, for these two steps, whenever you have two non-adjacent pieces in place it's hard to leave all correctly permuted and I can't do the alg in the other direction so lots of Niklas in bad cases. Then orienting the corners is easy with beginners' corner twist procedure but it can take a while when you have to orient more than 2 or 3.

I have to definitely learn some algs to speed up the permutation of edges and corners. I would also benefit from swapping the order of the two last steps (CP and CO) as CP is easier to see when corners are already oriented. It's not the first time that I fumble the corners around when they were already in the right spot.


----------



## Selkie (Feb 17, 2016)

MarcelP said:


> Nice order  Did you get it with 'rush'?



Yes but then realised my mistake as the order contains a Cubicle custom 3x3 so cannot be rushed 


Been re-learning forgotten puzzles preparing for the comp in April. This week is clock week. Quite pleased with progress, this is the fastest Ao12:-

Ao12 16.27 - 18.15, (12.74), (18.71), 18.01, 17.02, 14.29, 14.64, 15.21, 18.14, 15.35, 16.60, 15.30

Megaminx, now there is a puzzle I have not solved for a while. My LL consisted to sune, asune and commutators. Not sure I'll solve it at comp again but may do a bit of practice next month.


----------



## Shaky Hands (Feb 17, 2016)

Selkie said:


> Been re-learning forgotten puzzles preparing for the comp in April. This week is clock week. Quite pleased with progress, this is the fastest Ao12:-
> 
> Ao12 16.27 - 18.15, (12.74), (18.71), 18.01, 17.02, 14.29, 14.64, 15.21, 18.14, 15.35, 16.60, 15.30



Looks good to me. I was thinking of doing Clock in April too, but figure I'll be about 40 seconds. I do like Clock... it's an easy puzzle, I'm just far from quick at it.


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## mafergut (Feb 17, 2016)

Shaky Hands said:


> Looks good to me. I was thinking of doing Clock in April too, but figure I'll be about 40 seconds. I do like Clock... it's an easy puzzle, I'm just far from quick at it.



I have never tried clock but, from all WCA puzzles it's the only one that I don't think I'd like. It's the only one that's not a "twisty puzzle" and what I like is moving pieces around so, clock is just not for me.


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## Selkie (Feb 17, 2016)

It is a very different puzzle to twisty. I use Pochmann method which is also always the same order of solving so not much to learn to be fair. Only good thing about the event for me is I use the same clock as I received as a Christmas present in the late 1980's


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## Shaky Hands (Feb 17, 2016)

No idea what happened to my original Clock. Think it may have been car-booted in the mid-90's. I've got the non-branded one in the one puzzle where the original Rubik brand is apparently still the best.


----------



## Jason Green (Feb 17, 2016)

h2f said:


> @Jason Green
> 
> I've relearnt dot cases in OLLs. I havent used them and finally forgot but realized I need to know them - it's better. Now I finally know all OLLs and PLLs.


It's a fun feeling, even though I need much practice to get recognition and recall down. Plus it's another cool thing you can tell non cubers how many you know and sound impressive. Of course they are impressed if you solve the cube in 1:30.


----------



## muchacho (Feb 17, 2016)

If someone wants to try Megaminx there is a tutorial by Justkeepcubing for the last layer. It's a new tutorial but I think is exactly like an older one she did 2 or 3 years ago:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v6L-KzcgRok



mafergut said:


> ...the one in my new PB yesterday of 4:22.xx


Ouch, I should have asked about your times before racing you 

My 6 solves today have improved my ao5 PB to 7:01 (from 7:20) and ao12 to 7:20 (from 7:53).


----------



## Jason Green (Feb 17, 2016)

Learning megaminx reminds me of my overdue dental appointment... It will probably happen eventually but I'm not excited about it at the moment.

** Only overdue by about a month, I've been much worse in the past!


----------



## muchacho (Feb 17, 2016)

mafergut said:


> I know what you mean. I'm trying to practice too many new events and progress is quite slow. In skewb and pyra I have stumbled aroud 15 average and in 4x4 and 5x5 I can't get even close to decent times yet. The same with Mega.
> 
> So, it's a race!
> 
> *EDIT: Sorry, but... was it a race to Ao12? Because, I'm afraid, if it is single, I was doing the WC#07 scrambles and on my 1st solve (yes, 1st Mega solve in two weeks, as last week I didn't do Mega) I got a quite easy LL and stopped the timer at 4:22.38. I don't have it on cam but trust me, it's real! The only explanation is that 5x5 practise has helped my lookahead on mega and the super-easy LL I got (it was just F 2-sexy F' to orient edges, 2 sunes to permute edges, one Niklas to permute corners and voilá, all corners were already oriented*


Ah, I didn't read that part.

I was thinking race to sub-5 ao5, but if you are already close to that then sub-5 ao12 so I have a chance if you don't practice much


----------



## muchacho (Feb 17, 2016)

Jason Green said:


> Learning megaminx reminds me of my overdue dental appointment... It will probably happen eventually but I'm not excited about it at the moment.
> 
> ** Only overdue by about a month, I've been much worse in the past!


The thing takes too much time, at first I thought it would be a good relaxing exercise, but trying to find the pieces gets on my nerves, and apparently I can't solve a puzzle without caring about the time.


----------



## h2f (Feb 17, 2016)

Jason Green said:


> It's a fun feeling, even though I need much practice to get recognition and recall down. Plus it's another cool thing you can tell non cubers how many you know and sound impressive. Of course they are impressed if you solve the cube in 1:30.



Yeah, sounds graet! 

@all 

So are you going to make a race with mega?

I've finally made ao12 in 3bld 1:55.95. It's my first ao12 in that event. I do a lot of dnfs but I've found causes of my dnfs. It works.


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## newtonbase (Feb 17, 2016)

h2f said:


> I've finally made ao12 in 3bld 1:55.95. It's my first ao12 in that event. I do a lot of dnfs but I've found causes of my dnfs. It works.



What were the causes?


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## h2f (Feb 17, 2016)

There were a lot of them: too many attempts in a row, too small breaks between solves, not good pace of memo (too fast or too slow, but better faster), small mistakes during memo when you recon an edge or corner (touching them helps a lot), too many things I was trying to implement (comms, adv M2), bad cube (aolong v1 was changed for Yuxin fire), forgeting about twists and flipps (I need a better system for them). As you can see, there were a lot. I was thinking about them for a long time.


----------



## newtonbase (Feb 17, 2016)

I'm guilty of a few of those too. Learning too much and forgetting to flip edges especially. I'm trying to focus on solid memo at the moment but it's hard to find peaceful time to do it.


----------



## chtiger (Feb 18, 2016)

h2f said:


> I've finally made ao12 in 3bld 1:55.95. It's my first ao12 in that event. I do a lot of dnfs but I've found causes of my dnfs. It works.


Very nice. 

I'm still looking for a sub-2:00 ao1. Been doing more solves lately, but getting worse and apparently don't know how to do blind anymore. Started keeping track of my solves the last 3-4 days. Doing half M2 and half OP to see which one is the winner. Just kidding, but I am doing half of each. 
Race to sub-2 results so far (don't look if you are squeamish)--

M2 attempts


Spoiler



2:19.18	
DNF(2:23.58)	
2:16.88	
DNF(2:29.45)	
DNF(2:43.28)
DNF(3:07.63)
DNF(3:18.54)
DNF(2:03.25)
DNF(2:45.45)
DNF(2:33.45)
DNF(2:09.61)	
DNF(2:21.45) 
DNF(2:42.60)


OP attempts


Spoiler



2:33.58
DNF(2:39.45)	
2:13.49
DNF(3:27.19)
2:47.39
2:15.54 
DNF(2:21.91)
DNF(2:28.74)
DNF(2:37.59)
2:22.08
DNF(2:14.81)
DNF(2:46.38)
DNF(2:51.82)





Selkie said:


> Been re-learning forgotten puzzles preparing for the comp in April. This week is clock week. Quite pleased with progress, this is the fastest Ao12:-
> Ao12 16.27 - 18.15, (12.74), (18.71), 18.01, 17.02, 14.29, 14.64, 15.21, 18.14, 15.35, 16.60, 15.30


Glad to finally see some clock talk on this thread. I was wondering if any other current oldies ever did clock. Compared to the other puzzles, it's weird and unpopular, sorta like myself, so I thought maybe I'd be decent at it. Got my first sub-10 ao5 on Sunday.
Average of 5: 9.88 = 9.81, (11.56), (9.48), 9.83, 10.01 
My last 2 solves from Sunday and the first 10 from my next session yesterday was a PB ao12 (10.34), but I don't think I can count an ao12 that spans multiple days. My same session a012 isn't too much worse anyway (10.45).


----------



## h2f (Feb 18, 2016)

Wow. You're very good at clock. I can clock but I haven't done it for months.


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## mafergut (Feb 18, 2016)

muchacho said:


> Ah, I didn't read that part.
> 
> I was thinking race to sub-5 ao5, but if you are already close to that then sub-5 ao12 so I have a chance if you don't practice much



My last Ao5 was for WC 2016-05 and it was 5:42.97, 6:02.46, (5:38.78), 5:43.45, (6:10.89) = 5:49.63
I was just very lucky with LL in my 1st solve for WC 07, that's all. Let's make it an Ao12 then, but it can take me two weeks to just do 12 solves  I will have to count the WC solves and also do 1 or 2 warm-up solves  But I will not make 12 solves in a row so there will be no video proof 



h2f said:


> @all: So are you going to make a race with mega?
> 
> I've finally made ao12 in 3bld 1:55.95. It's my first ao12 in that event. I do a lot of dnfs but I've found causes of my dnfs. It works.



Wanna join? We just started two days ago  Sub-5 Ao12. Regarding your BLD DNFs I'm sure you will overcome the issues that are causing them. You have to, some people in this forum (I am among them) are looking up to you as a reference in BLD. It's the only option for an oldie to get close to Top Class  I'm not gonna get a sub-6 single at 3x3 in my life but you have demonstrated that we can get sub 1 minute at 3BLD. C'mon!!!



chtiger said:


> Glad to finally see some clock talk on this thread. [...] Got my first sub-10 ao5 on Sunday.
> Average of 5: 9.88 = 9.81, (11.56), (9.48), 9.83, 10.01
> My last 2 solves from Sunday and the first 10 from my next session yesterday was a PB ao12 (10.34), but I don't think I can count an ao12 that spans multiple days. My same session a012 isn't too much worse anyway (10.45).



Wow! You're good at that thing! And, of course you can count it as PB Ao12, or else I would never have an Ao12 at 5x5, Mega... probably even at 4x4. Not sure I have ever done 12 solves in just one sitting at any of those events. I have done like 250 at 2x2, though


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## h2f (Feb 18, 2016)

mafergut said:


> Wanna join? We just started two days ago  Sub-5 Ao12. Regarding your BLD DNFs I'm sure you will overcome the issues that are causing them. You have to, some people in this forum (I am among them) are looking up to you as a reference in BLD. It's the only option for an oldie to get close to Top Class  I'm not gonna get a sub-6 single at 3x3 in my life but you have demonstrated that we can get sub 1 minute at 3BLD. C'mon!!!



Thanks for good words. 

I can join to the race, but where it is?


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## shadowslice e (Feb 18, 2016)

h2f said:


> Thanks for good words.
> 
> I can join to the race, but where it is?



I think it's just on this thread


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## mafergut (Feb 18, 2016)

h2f said:


> Thanks for good words.
> 
> I can join to the race, but where it is?



Ah, no, we weren't thinking of creating a Megaminx race thread in the Forum Competitions. It was just a thing between muchacho an myself, here in this thread, and as I'm just doing the WC solves, it will take me 2 weeks to gather a full Ao12. I checked and somebody tried to start a Megaminx thread like 4 weeks ago but it doesn't look like it had much traction and the thread is dead since 2 weeks ago.

So, if you wanna join just put your results here


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## h2f (Feb 18, 2016)

mafergut said:


> Ah, no, we weren't thinking of creating a Megaminx race thread in the Forum Competitions. It was just a thing between muchacho an myself, here in this thread, and as I'm just doing the WC solves, it will take me 2 weeks to gather a full Ao12. I checked and somebody tried to start a Megaminx thread like 4 weeks ago but it doesn't look like it had much traction and the thread is dead since 2 weeks ago.
> 
> So, if you wanna join just put your results here



Ok. I'll try do it.


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## muchacho (Feb 18, 2016)

Another 6 Megaminx solves:
- Ao5 went from 7:01 to 6:46
- Ao12 from 7:20 to 7:07

I guess I'll try to learn those 2 algs to orient 5 corners and something apart from sune for permuting edges.



h2f said:


> Ok. I'll try do it.


Great!


----------



## mafergut (Feb 18, 2016)

muchacho said:


> Another 6 Megaminx solves:
> - Ao5 went from 7:01 to 6:46
> - Ao12 from 7:20 to 7:07
> 
> ...



I will try to dig into a general purpose commutator to permute corners that I think I saw in some video. I only could do 3 solves since last Tuesday, still trying to find time to do the other two to finish this WC's Ao5. The 3 first went like this: 4:22.38 (I had already bragged about this one ), 5:50.85, 5:04.73.


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## Shaky Hands (Feb 18, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> Awesome, thanks - anyone who notices I'm not yet signed up, please sign me up!



Exeter registration is this evening. I'll try to register you if no one else has; will presume it's the same events as last time for you.


----------



## Selkie (Feb 18, 2016)

Shaky Hands said:


> Exeter registration is this evening. I'll try to register you if no one else has; will presume it's the same events as last time for you.



Ah super, was just about to ask in the thread who was registering Mark. Will leave it in your capable hands Andy :tu


I am up for an informal megaminx race for sure. Let me dig out a puzzle when I get back from holiday in the forest tomorrow.

Some more clock with these best averages today:-

Best Ao5 - 13.77 - 13.39, 15.23, (12.64), (17.76), 12.69

Best Ao12 - 14.42 - 13.77, 14.67, 14.04, 14.38, 14.04, 15.32, 15.50, 16.15, (12.62), 12.66, (16.21), 13.62

Total of 71 solves, session average - 15.33. Looking better


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## Shaky Hands (Feb 18, 2016)

I'll confirm if it's done or if there's any problems.


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## Shaky Hands (Feb 18, 2016)

Looking further this might not be possible. Seems you now have to have an account on the WCA site to register. (I realise registration isn't quite open yet but this seems to be the case if you try to register for a comp where registration is open.)

Not sure if Mark has an account already, in which case it may make his registration complicated.

UPDATE: Looks like Mark has an account on WCA, so unfortunately will need to be him that registers himself unless anyone has any suggestions.

2nd UPDATE: 12 registrations in the first minute.

3rd UPDATE: Mark's registered anyway (somehow.) No panic.


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## mafergut (Feb 18, 2016)

muchacho said:


> Another 6 Megaminx solves:
> - Ao5 went from 7:01 to 6:46
> - Ao12 from 7:20 to 7:07
> 
> I guess I'll try to learn those 2 algs to orient 5 corners and something apart from sune for permuting edges.



I found the general purpose corner permutation thingy. It goes like this:

(R'D'R) U (R'DR) U (R'D'R) U2' (R'DR)

Of course the U/U2 in the middle depends on the corner you extracted so next one you extract is the one sitting where the previous one belongs.

If you find some interesting algs for EP and CO please share. I have the guide in Andy Klise's site (which also mentions this corner commutator) but it uses a different order that goes like EO, CO, EP, CP and it has far too many algs, so I'm not gonna learn those and keep going EO, EP, CP, CO with sune and anti-sune for EP. I will try to swap Niklas for this corner commutator at CP step, though.

By the way, I finished the WC Ao5 but the two other solves were not great. That still gives me a PB Ao5 of 5:13.39.

Also, I solve the whole LL with the puzzle sitting on the table instead of holding it in my hands. I assume this would be considered legal in comp, wouldn't it?


----------



## Jason Green (Feb 18, 2016)

Shaky Hands said:


> Looking further this might not be possible. Seems you now have to have an account on the WCA site to register. (I realise registration isn't quite open yet but this seems to be the case if you try to register for a comp where registration is open.)
> 
> Not sure if Mark has an account already, in which case it may make his registration complicated.
> 
> ...


Not sure where the sign up is for this. On one's I have signed up for I just enter my ID but do not have to log in or anything.


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## Shaky Hands (Feb 18, 2016)

Jason Green said:


> Not sure where the sign up is for this. On one's I have signed up for I just enter my ID but do not have to log in or anything.



That's how it was for the last comp I did (end of Jan.) Process seems to have changed.


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## Selkie (Feb 18, 2016)

Unfortunately it is not possible. I have even Facebook messaged Dan Sheppard WCA delegate and since Mark already has an account registered there is no other way for Exeter


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## Shaky Hands (Feb 18, 2016)

Selkie said:


> Unfortunately it is not possible. I have even Facebook messaged Dan Sheppard WCA delegate and since Mark already has an account registered there is no other way for Exeter



He's registered anyway. Guess he got a break on his trip.

https://www.worldcubeassociation.org/competitions/ExeterOpen2016/registrations


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## Selkie (Feb 18, 2016)

Awesome, great news :tu

Daniel said to me its the first time they have used this system for a UK comp. Trying to cut down on too many joke registrations which is perfectly understandable I guess.


----------



## mark49152 (Feb 18, 2016)

Thanks everyone! I was able to get out for a break and register myself - good job too, seeing as they've introduced the login, and its already half full...!

Looking forward to seeing you all there, should be a good one!


----------



## Shaky Hands (Feb 18, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> Thanks everyone! I was able to get out for a break and register myself - good job too, seeing as they've introduced the login, and its already half full...!
> 
> Looking forward to seeing you all there, should be a good one!



... and also I wouldn't have known to register you for 5-BLD. 

Indeed, look forward to seeing you all there.


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## muchacho (Feb 18, 2016)

mafergut said:


> Also, I solve the whole LL with the puzzle sitting on the table instead of holding it in my hands. I assume this would be considered legal in comp, wouldn't it?


Sure it is, and I do that too (and even before the LL), it's easier that way. Yuhu's layers move too easily, it's too unstable.


----------



## mafergut (Feb 18, 2016)

muchacho said:


> Sure it is, and I do that too (and even before the LL), it's easier that way. Yuhu's layers move too easily, it's too unstable.



Yeah, I had to buy a ShengShou because I couldn't bear the Yuhu's instability (and tiny edge stickers). SS is much more stable... but without any modding it locks up a ton.

By the way, I just tried a solve with the corner commutator and I don't feel a significan improvement over repeated Niklas, if at all


----------



## newtonbase (Feb 18, 2016)

Finally got around to buying a Thunderclap to replace the one I gave away at Manchester. Got an extra in case I go for 3 in multi. Of course I needed to get a stickerless one too to see what they are like and my supply of giveaway Guanlongs is very low so I got 3 of them and who could resist the low price of the Guansu and I liked the look of the stickerless Qiyi pyraminx from some videos I've been watching and a friends kid messed up my Meiying today so I needed a Guoguan just in case. I have no excuse for the Dayan 2x2.
Thunderclaps are meant to be cheap. This one cost me $70.


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## Selkie (Feb 19, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> Finally got around to buying a Thunderclap to replace the one I gave away at Manchester. Got an extra in case I go for 3 in multi. Of course I needed to get a stickerless one too to see what they are like and my supply of giveaway Guanlongs is very low so I got 3 of them and who could resist the low price of the Guansu and I liked the look of the stickerless Qiyi pyraminx from some videos I've been watching and a friends kid messed up my Meiying today so I needed a Guoguan just in case. I have no excuse for the Dayan 2x2.
> Thunderclaps are meant to be cheap. This one cost me $70.



This sounds like one of my orders


----------



## ryuusei86 (Feb 19, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> Thunderclaps are meant to be cheap. This one cost me $70.


Yes, but just look at all the free stuff you got with it. 

EDIT: By the way, good job guys. The Cubicle is all out of GuoGuan YueXiaos.


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## mafergut (Feb 19, 2016)

newtonbase;1152933[... said:


> I have no excuse for the Dayan 2x2.
> Thunderclaps are meant to be cheap. This one cost me $70.



I can give you an excuse for the Dayan 2x2. How could you not have the best 2x2 on the market at that price?


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## muchacho (Feb 19, 2016)

mafergut said:


> I can give you an excuse for the Dayan 2x2. How could you not have the best 2x2 on the market at that price?


Yours finally improved much? Because of lubing, tensioning or breaking in? I changed the springs (the mini aolong I'm not using any more) and it's better now.

A good scramble, it was fine after finishing the second block, but 22 seconds at the end 
D' L2 D' R2 F2 L2 U' F2 U2 F2 L' F' U R' L' F D' R2 U2 B' U2


Bad solves with Mega, ao12 only improved from 7:06 to 7:01.


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## mafergut (Feb 19, 2016)

muchacho said:


> Yours finally improved much? Because of lubing, tensioning or breaking in? I changed the springs (the mini aolong I'm not using any more) and it's better now.
> 
> A good scramble, it was fine after finishing the second block, but 22 seconds at the end
> D' L2 D' R2 F2 L2 U' F2 U2 F2 L' F' U R' L' F D' R2 U2 B' U2



Mine improved, for sure, and it's by far the best 2x2 I have and the only one I really enjoy solving but corner cutting is not great because of tight tensions to avoid popping. It was tricky to even the tensions out on all sides and now I don't want to touch it.

I'll check if the scramble is also good for CFOP


----------



## MarcelP (Feb 19, 2016)

Ok, I tried to film a fast average. This solve was the second solve of the day. I immediatly stopped after that knowing it could not get a lot better  4.7 tps.. I do not think I have been this close to 5 tps.
(btw, technically a 2+ because I hear my keyboard before stopping turning  )


Spoiler: full step 13 sec solve at 4.7 tps



13.05 B' L2 U2 F2 R2 U' R2 D2 L2 B2 U B2 L B' F2 L2 B' R U' L U 
y' // inspection
x U x' D L D2 // CROSS (6)
U' y' R U R' U R U' R' //1st (9)
y U' U' R U' R' U2 R U' R' //2nd (10)
y U' y R U' R' //3rd (6)
y' U2 R U' R' U R U R' //4TH (9)
R U2 R2' U' R2 U' R2' U2 R // OLL (9)
U R2 U' R' U' R U R U R U' R U // PLL (13) 
//62 moves in 13.05 = 4.7 tps








view on alg.cubing.net

Cube: Gans 356 V1 (still main over V2 Advanced)


----------



## h2f (Feb 19, 2016)

MarcelP said:


> Ok, I tried to film a fast average. This solve was the second solve of the day. I immediatly stopped after that knowing it could not get a lot better  4.7 tps.. I do not think I have been this close to 5 tps.
> (btw, technically a 2+ because I hear my keyboard before stopping turning  )
> 
> 
> ...



Nice. And who cares about +2.


----------



## Selkie (Feb 19, 2016)

MarcelP said:


> Cube: Gans 356 V1 (still main over V2 Advanced)



Lovely solve as I said on FB Marcel. I am in exactly the same position where v1 is still main over v2. However be really interesting how the Cubicle premium GuoGuan YueXiaos compares when its delivered with the rest of my order


----------



## earth2dan (Feb 19, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> Finally got around to buying a Thunderclap to replace the one I gave away at Manchester. Got an extra in case I go for 3 in multi. Of course I needed to get a stickerless one too to see what they are like and my supply of giveaway Guanlongs is very low so I got 3 of them and who could resist the low price of the Guansu and I liked the look of the stickerless Qiyi pyraminx from some videos I've been watching and a friends kid messed up my Meiying today so I needed a Guoguan just in case. I have no excuse for the Dayan 2x2.
> Thunderclaps are meant to be cheap. This one cost me $70.



Oh man. Every time. I feel your pain. I have to take a break from buying cubes though. I just broke the bank recently and bought the MoYu 13x13


----------



## mafergut (Feb 19, 2016)

earth2dan said:


> Oh man. Every time. I feel your pain. I have to take a break from buying cubes though. I just broke the bank recently and bought the MoYu 13x13



Well, then you are saved, because I have the rule of thumb of never placing a new order of cubes without first doing an Ao100 with at least one of the cubes in the previous shipment. And, as this shipment consists only of the Moyu 13x13...


----------



## earth2dan (Feb 19, 2016)

mafergut said:


> Well, then you are saved, because I have the rule of thumb of never placing a new order of cubes without first doing an Ao100 with at least one of the cubes in the previous shipment. And, as this shipment consists only of the Moyu 13x13...



Hah. Now that is a good rule to implement! Though, I also ordered a stickerless thunderclap and a bochuang with that 13x13. So I have a loophole


----------



## MarcelP (Feb 19, 2016)

Selkie said:


> Lovely solve as I said on FB Marcel. I am in exactly the same position where v1 is still main over v2. However be really interesting how the Cubicle premium GuoGuan YueXiaos compares when its delivered with the rest of my order



Yeah the premium YueXiao might be really good. I did an Ao25 with my YueXiao and I just can not get my Gans times. High 19 averages are the best I can get where high 18 is really not hard with Gans. Be sure to unbox it on camera


----------



## newtonbase (Feb 19, 2016)

earth2dan said:


> Oh man. Every time. I feel your pain. I have to take a break from buying cubes though. I just broke the bank recently and bought the MoYu 13x13



If you are going to overdo it then night as well do it in style. 

Just tried multi for the first time. 0/2 in 16:58. Definitely a couple of execution errors in there. Memo felt good but I was nervous for some reason. I actually have a whole hour in the house to myself so might try again.


----------



## Selkie (Feb 19, 2016)

MarcelP said:


> Yeah the premium YueXiao might be really good. I did an Ao25 with my YueXiao and I just can not get my Gans times. High 19 averages are the best I can get where high 18 is really not hard with Gans. Be sure to unbox it on camera



With the number of cubes etc coming in that parcel, I will be sure to do an unboxing video.

Some very, very boring sub 15 clock...


----------



## newtonbase (Feb 19, 2016)

2nd attempt. 2/2 in 13:58. I didn't think it would feel this good.


----------



## Shaky Hands (Feb 19, 2016)

Good sip of the ol' tea there to prepare, 'eh?

I need to learn Clock notation at some point as I'm scrambling by hand for that.


----------



## mafergut (Feb 19, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> 2nd attempt. 2/2 in 13:58. I didn't think it would feel this good.



Nice!!! This reminds me of the song, you know... I feel good...


----------



## Shaky Hands (Feb 19, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> 2nd attempt. 2/2 in 13:58. I didn't think it would feel this good.



Hey congratulations!


----------



## newtonbase (Feb 19, 2016)

mafergut said:


> Nice!!! This reminds me of the song, you know... I feel good...



Funnily enough I was dancing a little like James Brown when I got it.


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## h2f (Feb 19, 2016)

Great, Adam! And good time!


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## Selkie (Feb 19, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> 2nd attempt. 2/2 in 13:58. I didn't think it would feel this good.



Awesome, congratulations :tu


----------



## mark49152 (Feb 19, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> 2nd attempt. 2/2 in 13:58. I didn't think it would feel this good.


Nice one, congrats!


----------



## Selkie (Feb 19, 2016)

Shaky Hands said:


> Good sip of the ol' tea there to prepare, 'eh?
> 
> I need to learn Clock notation at some point as I'm scrambling by hand for that.



Cubing always better with caffeine. A mug stars in all my Youtube videos 

This might help for WCA scramble notation. Not mine but quite well laid out:-



Spoiler


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## earth2dan (Feb 19, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> 2nd attempt. 2/2 in 13:58. I didn't think it would feel this good.



Awesome! I have yet to get 1/1 ...


----------



## newtonbase (Feb 19, 2016)

h2f said:


> Great, Adam! And good time!



Yes. I was pleased with the time. The failure was 3 mins slower. I'll definitely have time for 3 when I next get to a competition.

Thanks all.


----------



## h2f (Feb 19, 2016)

Yeah, of course you can 3! 2 in mbld is quite easy but everyone has to start from it. I'm sure you can 5 or 6 at the moment whitout any practice.


----------



## Shaky Hands (Feb 19, 2016)

Selkie said:


> Cubing always better with caffeine. A mug stars in all my Youtube videos
> 
> This might help for WCA scramble notation. Not mine but quite well laid out:-
> 
> ...



Thanks that explained everything I needed to know. Messed up the solve and got 55 seconds, but hey, a week ago I couldn't solve the thing. 

Cheers.


----------



## newtonbase (Feb 19, 2016)

h2f said:


> Yeah, of course you can 3! 2 in mbld is quite easy but everyone has to start from it. I'm sure you can 5 or 6 at the moment whitout any practice.



That might be pushing it. I need to organise myself a bit. I had no plan going into it and ended up not using any sort of journey or rooms. There were 3 visual sentences then some gibberish audio edges. I didn't even know where I'd put the cubes.


----------



## Shaky Hands (Feb 19, 2016)

Think I've got the hang of Clock scrambles now. Did my first ever Ao12 just now, somewhat inconsistent but enjoyable anyway.



Spoiler



1. 34.40 UR4+ DR4+ DL1- UL1+ U2- R6+ D5+ L1- ALL0+ y2 U1- R5- D0+ L2- ALL1+ DR DL
2. 58.02 UR1+ DR0+ DL0+ UL5+ U2- R2+ D5+ L6+ ALL6+ y2 U0+ R3- D3- L0+ ALL2+ DL UL
3. 1:00.19 UR3- DR5+ DL4- UL0+ U5+ R4- D2- L5+ ALL0+ y2 U4+ R1+ D4- L2+ ALL1- UL
4. DNF (39:51) UR2- DR2+ DL1- UL2+ U4+ R5+ D6+ L2+ ALL4+ y2 U4- R3+ D6+ L4- ALL2+
5. 34.10 UR6+ DR3+ DL1+ UL4- U1+ R6+ D4- L0+ ALL3- y2 U3+ R5- D4- L5+ ALL2+ DL
*6. 27.89 UR2+ DR3- DL1+ UL5+ U1- R3+ D2+ L0+ ALL2- y2 U5- R5+ D3+ L5+ ALL4+ DL
*7. 29.72 UR0+ DR0+ DL1- UL1+ U4- R5- D1+ L2- ALL1+ y2 U3+ R2- D2- L2+ ALL6+ UR DR DL UL
8. 1:02.53 UR4+ DR2+ DL6+ UL1+ U4+ R3+ D1+ L0+ ALL2+ y2 U2- R2+ D2+ L4+ ALL3+ UR DR UL
9. 33.40 UR4- DR3+ DL6+ UL5+ U0+ R6+ D1+ L1+ ALL4+ y2 U6+ R1+ D4- L2+ ALL4- UR DL UL
10. 35.91 UR3+ DR2- DL4- UL5+ U1+ R4+ D5+ L2+ ALL3- y2 U3+ R2+ D3- L4- ALL0+ DR UL
11. 33.17 UR4+ DR0+ DL1- UL1+ U4+ R3- D1+ L1- ALL0+ y2 U0+ R5+ D1+ L1- ALL6+ UR DR UL
12. 42.43 UR3+ DR2+ DL2+ UL4- U3+ R2- D1+ L0+ ALL4+ y2 U2+ R6+ D1- L4- ALL2- UR DR DL UL

*Ao12: 42.387*



UPDATE: Got addicted and did another that worked out better for me.



Spoiler



1. 28.15 UR1- DR1- DL2- UL5+ U1+ R1+ D2+ L5+ ALL2- y2 U6+ R5+ D2- L1+ ALL2+ UR DR DL UL
2. 35.34 UR5+ DR1+ DL3- UL3+ U5- R2+ D2- L0+ ALL0+ y2 U5- R3+ D1+ L1- ALL2+ UR
3. 32.25 UR6+ DR2+ DL5+ UL4- U3- R2- D1+ L1- ALL6+ y2 U2+ R3+ D3- L1- ALL3+ DR UL
4. 29.99 UR2- DR6+ DL5+ UL4- U0+ R4- D4- L4+ ALL3- y2 U2+ R4- D5- L0+ ALL1- UR DR
5. 35.04 UR5+ DR4+ DL5+ UL4- U4+ R0+ D3- L2+ ALL5+ y2 U2+ R2+ D5- L1+ ALL3- UR DR DL UL
6. 36.02 UR3+ DR3+ DL4- UL2+ U4+ R2- D2- L2+ ALL2+ y2 U2+ R1+ D1- L1- ALL4- UR DR UL
7. 32.20 UR3+ DR3+ DL3+ UL1- U2- R1+ D4+ L3- ALL2- y2 U3+ R4- D3- L2- ALL2+ UR UL
*8. 23.98 UR2+ DR6+ DL0+ UL1+ U0+ R2- D6+ L3+ ALL5- y2 U0+ R3- D6+ L6+ ALL4- DL UL*
9. 32.84 UR1- DR1+ DL4+ UL4+ U6+ R4- D1- L1- ALL6+ y2 U2- R4+ D5+ L2- ALL1- UR DR UL
10. 28.34 UR4- DR5- DL3- UL6+ U0+ R5- D0+ L4+ ALL6+ y2 U2+ R0+ D4- L2+ ALL2- UR DL UL
11. 32.12 UR3- DR4- DL0+ UL3- U5+ R5- D3+ L5+ ALL1+ y2 U6+ R2+ D1- L1- ALL3- DR UL
12. 30.19 UR4- DR5+ DL5+ UL2- U3+ R4- D5- L3+ ALL1+ y2 U1- R3+ D1- L3- ALL6+ DR UL

*Ao12: 31.646*



I figure if I can squeeze in an Ao12 every now and again I may be able to beat the cutoff time by the comp.


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## Selkie (Feb 20, 2016)

Shaky Hands said:


> I figure if I can squeeze in an Ao12 every now and again I may be able to beat the cutoff time by the comp.



Great stuff. Yes, it isn't the most taxing event but if you follow the same sequence like Pochmann method then it can be easy enough to get to sub UK cutoff. Hoping for PBs for single and average in Exeter since my global average (<15.5s) is lower than my best single but we will have to wait and see.

I have tended to use 'Jaap' clock scrambles so was good for me too to refresh on WCA


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## h2f (Feb 20, 2016)

I must write it here: First sub-1 3bld: 59.77 with timer failure - I pushed wrong button on the keyboard and happily stopped it 2 seconds later. Still sub-1 but it was around ~56. I havent thought I do this by the end of the year. Method: a lot of tricks with advanced M2.


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## newtonbase (Feb 20, 2016)

h2f said:


> I must write it here: First sub-1 3bld: 59.77 with timer failure - I pushed wrong button on the keyboard and happily stopped it 2 seconds later. Still sub-1 but it was around ~56. I havent thought I do this by the end of the year. Method: a lot of tricks with advanced M2.



Wow. Congratulations


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## MarcelP (Feb 20, 2016)

h2f said:


> I must write it here: First sub-1 3bld: 59.77 with timer failure - I pushed wrong button on the keyboard and happily stopped it 2 seconds later. Still sub-1 but it was around ~56. I havent thought I do this by the end of the year. Method: a lot of tricks with advanced M2.



Yeah, congrats. I really must begin practicing since I want to do 3BLD in competition in May.


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## Selkie (Feb 20, 2016)

h2f said:


> I must write it here: First sub-1 3bld: 59.77 with timer failure - I pushed wrong button on the keyboard and happily stopped it 2 seconds later. Still sub-1 but it was around ~56. I havent thought I do this by the end of the year. Method: a lot of tricks with advanced M2.



That is just awesome, huge congratulations :tu


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## muchacho (Feb 20, 2016)

Great, that must feel better than a sub-10 3x3 solve!


_I've improved my Megaminx ao5 PB from 6:46 to 6:22 (and single, from 5:46 to 5:35), and 3x3 ao5 from 21.61 to 21.06_


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## h2f (Feb 20, 2016)

@all, Thanks a lot! I feel fine, I put a lot of effort in it. I think it's equal to being sub-20... 

I'm a high school teacher (fellow at the university) and I found that teaching someone allows you to learn better the thing you teach. Few days ago I did a tutorial to advanced M2 and finally understood few tricks so I could implement it to my solves. I think it helped my solves being better.


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## mafergut (Feb 20, 2016)

muchacho said:


> _I've improved my Megaminx ao5 PB from 6:46 to 6:22 (and single, from 5:46 to 5:35), and 3x3 ao5 from 21.61 to 21.06_



Nice. Today I will try 2BLD, 4x4 and 5x5 so you can catch up a bit 



h2f said:


> @all, Thanks a lot! I feel fine, I put a lot of effort in it. I think it's equal to being sub-20...
> 
> I'm a high school teacher (fellow at the university) and I found that teaching someone allows you to learn better the thing you teach. Few days ago I did a tutorial to advanced M2 and finally understood few tricks so I could implement it to my solves. I think it helped my solves being better.



Wow! Congratulations!!! By the way, I fully agree with what you say about learning by teaching. It happens to me when I try to explain maths to my son.


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## Selkie (Feb 20, 2016)

mafergut said:


> It happens to me when I try to explain maths to my son.



This is the topic in our house today. Our son has his yearly exams all next week. First subject Monday is Maths and I am going thought all 19 areas over the weekend. Think he is burnt out already


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## Selkie (Feb 20, 2016)

8.23 PLL skip

last scramble: F U2 B' D2 B2 R2 D2 F R2 F' R2 U' L B' F' D' R' D2 L U2 F'

Previous PB was 8.48


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## muchacho (Feb 20, 2016)

Not bad!

I guess you've already lost count of the number of sub-10 solves.


----------



## Jason Green (Feb 20, 2016)

Sub 1 bld and an 8 second solve, wow both are beyond my imagination right now.


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## h2f (Feb 20, 2016)

Wow, Chris. What a day. Nice.on cam? 

patataj patataj patataj


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## Selkie (Feb 20, 2016)

Thanks all.

Yes I have just about lost count, think its 10th or 11th

Trying to reconstruct and just cant seem to.

Scambled as WCA white top, green front

Inspection: x Y2 -- Pretty sure I started with white facing and green up 
Cross: L B -- Its a 2 move blue cross (my cross colour)
1st Pair: U (R'FRF') R'U'R -- Sure it was this as I planned it during inspection

Think I missed the next connected pair on the back, just can't find where I went 

Wish it was on film but my wife is also in the study today doing a degree assignment so having a film free day.


Funniest thing of all is I was trying to push TPS and getting frustrated as I was locking up my Gans 356 1 and v2 advanced so picked up my MoYu HuaLong and it felt very smooth so I lubed it with some Maru and started an average. 50 Solves in was 15.9x. I then started another average and it was the 9th solve. Wish my hands would pick a cube!


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## mafergut (Feb 20, 2016)

Selkie said:


> 8.23 PLL skip
> 
> last scramble: F U2 B' D2 B2 R2 D2 F R2 F' R2 U' L B' F' D' R' D2 L U2 F'
> 
> Previous PB was 8.48



That's just awesome Chris! I hope I can get at least a sub-11 this year but sub-9 is far from my capabilities right now.


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## mafergut (Feb 20, 2016)

muchacho said:


> I've improved my Megaminx ao5 PB from 6:46 to 6:22 (and single, from 5:46 to 5:35), and 3x3 ao5 from 21.61 to 21.06



Current PB Ao12: 5:24.22 = (4:22.38), 5:50.85, 5:04.73, 5:11.81, 5:23.62, 5:45.22, 5:35.37, 4:59.16, 5:04.95, 5:22.12, (5:55.40), 5:44.34

I did another 6 solves to compensate for last week's  And also to have an Ao12 as a reference. Still a lot to improve for sub-5. Checking my times it looks like I'm only fresh for like 2 solves or 3 per session, then I start to make mistakes and get closer to 6.

From now on I will just do 5-6 solves a week as promised... unless you get very close to getting sub-5 first


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## h2f (Feb 20, 2016)

Nice. I've only tensioned my minx and solved once but i havent' timed it.


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## Shaky Hands (Feb 20, 2016)

Selkie said:


> Think I missed the next connected pair on the back, just can't find where I went



Well done.

I'd probably have gone y [l U l'] [L' U L] for the 2nd pair. Can't progress much beyond that to generate a skip, would maybe need to transpose it to White cross for me.

EDIT: Ignore me. That's a crappy pair.


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## muchacho (Feb 20, 2016)

mafergut said:


> Current PB Ao12: 5:24.22 = (4:22.38), 5:50.85, 5:04.73, 5:11.81, 5:23.62, 5:45.22, 5:35.37, 4:59.16, 5:04.95, 5:22.12, (5:55.40), 5:44.34
> 
> I did another 6 solves to compensate for last week's  And also to have an Ao12 as a reference. Still a lot to improve for sub-5. Checking my times it looks like I'm only fresh for like 2 solves or 3 per session, then I start to make mistakes and get closer to 6.


Yeah, I'm doing 3 per session (but the first one is usually bad).



mafergut said:


> From now on I will just do 5-6 solves a week as promised... unless you get very close to getting sub-5 first


My maths tells me you'll have to do more solves, but I'm not good at maths, so I'm just scared by your times 

I've changed a couple of sticker colors, that may help me but also may delay my improvements temporarily, well see.


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## ryuusei86 (Feb 20, 2016)

Back in noobville, I appreciate everyone's suggestions regarding the Roux method. Fooling around with it has forced me to do two things that I think others have said are important steps for beginners: keeping your first side facing down rather than up, and completing edge-corner pairs to finish solving that face. I can usually get to the point where the last layer corners are solved, and sometimes after a long struggle I can get all of the remaining edge pieces correctly permuted -- and then I give up. Which generally leads to solving the two bottom edges by inspection, and the last layer by the beginners' method. 

It's a strong temptation to solve the two bottom remaining edges before the last layer, but it seems like the Roux method makes use of that middle slice until the very end. I could probably go either way at this point -- either continue with the Roux method, or complete the bottom layer and then learn the more traditional way of solving the last layer. I'll keep practicing as right now I'm aiming for efficiency rather than speed. If any of you could watch me solving a cube you'd be screaming at me for looking all around and over the cube so much. 

On a last note, if anyone could point me to reliable ways of dealing with 4x4 parity that don't involve cube rotation moves, I'd be forever grateful. I have yet to find one that doesn't result in the whole thing getting messed up. I realize it's a matter of operator error at this point, combined with some degree of inconsistency in notation from one site to another.

Meanwhile, since the topic of placing online orders has come up -- I have an order from the Cubicle on deck, plus two from Cubezz and one from FastTech, and yet last night I started putting things in my Cubicle cart. I think it's an illness.


----------



## Jason Green (Feb 21, 2016)

This was my cheat sheet for parity. I had it memorized shortly after I wrote it so I never used it much. I think I watched crazy bad cubers YouTube tutorial and wrote these down. I use number 1 for the first PLL case.


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## SenorJuan (Feb 21, 2016)

As a fellow blue cross solver, I had a stab at Chris Selkies scramble.
How does this sound?
....
U (R'FRF') R' U' R
L' U' L y' R' U2 R
y' R' U R2 U' R'
y U R U R'
+OLL unknown


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## Lid (Feb 21, 2016)

SenorJuan said:


> As a fellow blue cross solver, I had a stab at Chris Selkies scramble.


Here is my try ... I am a blue cross solver btw, so the scamble fits me  (Didn't bother timing it) (F U2 B' D2 B2 R2 D2 F R2 F' R2 U' L B' F' D' R' D2 L U2 F')
z' U x R2 U R2 U' R // X-Cross
y' R U R' U2 R U2 R' - Dw L U L' - R U' R' Dw R' U' R // F2L
y' Sune Uperm-ccw // LL = 42 moves total or 39 if you cancel the 3 moves (R U R' U R U R U R U R U' R' U' R2)


----------



## h2f (Feb 21, 2016)

ryuusei86 said:


> It's a strong temptation to solve the two bottom remaining edges before the last layer, but it seems like the Roux method makes use of that middle slice until the very end. I could probably go either way at this point -- either continue with the Roux method, or complete the bottom layer and then learn the more traditional way of solving the last layer. I'll keep practicing as right now I'm aiming for efficiency rather than speed. If any of you could watch me solving a cube you'd be screaming at me for looking all around and over the cube so much.



If I may put an advice: dont do your own method. If you solve Roux way - solve with all steps of that method. Doing bottom edges first ruins all the power of the method. If you dont like M slices or something else - switch to CFOP. At this point you are, you need a patience, because you need tons of solve to learn of good habits. But they will pay you off later with a very good progress. Just try to understand how to orient the edges.

And talking about parity. Dont be affraid of cube rotations. It's impossible to solve the cube without them (ok. in Roux you can do no ratation).  

Good luck, you can make it!


----------



## newtonbase (Feb 21, 2016)

ryuusei86 said:


> On a last note, if anyone could point me to reliable ways of dealing with 4x4 parity that don't involve cube rotation moves, I'd be forever grateful. I have yet to find one that doesn't result in the whole thing getting messed up. I realize it's a matter of operator error at this point, combined with some degree of inconsistency in notation from one site to another.
> 
> Meanwhile, since the topic of placing online orders has come up -- I have an order from the Cubicle on deck, plus two from Cubezz and one from FastTech, and yet last night I started putting things in my Cubicle cart. I think it's an illness.


Edge flip (Edge at UF) 
r', U2,l,F2,l',F2, r2,U2,r,U2,r', U2, F2,r2,F2 - you can switch all the inner slices moves for wide moves if you prefer on this one

Opposite edge swap (Edges at UF and UB) 
r2,U2, r2, Uu2,r2,u2 

I'll have a look for the YouTube videos I got these from if you would like? 

Cube buying is indeed an illness and is rife on this site. The theoretical cure is to own enough cubes but nobody has ever got into that position.


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## muchacho (Feb 21, 2016)

ryuusei86 said:


> If any of you could watch me solving a cube you'd be screaming at me for looking all around and over the cube so much.


Don't worry about that, I'm guessing it would as painful as watching this poor guy 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GES2r6vVakc

Don't give up, you almost have it, watch again those tutorial videos, practice that part a bit and then you could have all the fun


----------



## h2f (Feb 21, 2016)

muchacho said:


> Don't worry about that, I'm guessing it would as painful as watching this poor guy
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GES2r6vVakc




He, he, he...


----------



## mafergut (Feb 21, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> Edge flip (Edge at UF)
> r', U2,l,F2,l',F2, r2,U2,r,U2,r', U2, F2,r2,F2 - you can switch all the inner slices moves for wide moves if you prefer on this one
> 
> Opposite edge swap (Edges at UF and UB)
> ...



For one degde flip (OLL parity) I prefer this one:

r U2 x r U2 r U2 r' U2 l U2 r' U2 r U2 r' U2 r'

I execute it also with wide Rw (and Lw) instead of inner slice r and l. It's basically the same alg but with the x rotation after the first Rw U2 so that it's all R L U2 instead of having Fs. Chris Olson has a video doing this alg in like 1.8 seconds. I, of course, take way longer than that. 

For opposite swap (PLL parity I use the same, I just do the final u2 as Uw2 U2.

Regarding the theory of having enough cubes I am not that sure. A Spanish Youtuber (TheMaoiSha) has more than 800 cubes and twisty puzzles in general and he doesn't look like he's got enough yet so...


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## muchacho (Feb 21, 2016)

New PBs on Megaminx, I still have hopes in bruteforcing this race 

Single: 5:35
Ao5: 6:05
Ao12: 6:19


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## JohnnyReggae (Feb 21, 2016)

mafergut said:


> For one degde flip (OLL parity) I prefer this one:
> 
> r U2 x r U2 r U2 r' U2 l U2 r' U2 r U2 r' U2 r'
> 
> I execute it also with wide Rw (and Lw) instead of inner slice r and l. It's basically the same alg but with the x rotation after the first Rw U2 so that it's all R L U2 instead of having Fs. Chris Olson has a video doing this alg in like 1.8 seconds. I, of course, take way longer than that.



I really like this alg. It flows so much better than what I've been using up to now. Definitely swapping to using this one.


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## mafergut (Feb 21, 2016)

JohnnyReggae said:


> I really like this alg. It flows so much better than what I've been using up to now. Definitely swapping to using this one.



I like it also because it can be used for 5x5 tredge parity with just replacing the Rw' that goes after the Lw for a Rw3'.

@muchacho, I feel your breath on the back of my neck in the Mega race. Good job!


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## Selkie (Feb 21, 2016)

I eventually gave up on trying to reconstruct. Very frustrating as reconstructing is a very useful skill to have. Still searching for the elusive first sub 10 on camera though but not going to get hung up on like I did with sub 15 ao12 and sub 14 ao5 on film


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## SenorJuan (Feb 21, 2016)

Maybe if you told us what OLL alg you used to finish the solve, we may be able to help more?


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## Selkie (Feb 21, 2016)

SenorJuan said:


> Maybe if you told us what OLL alg you used to finish the solve, we may be able to help more?



I thought it was a fat antisune but been doing so much second guessing I cannot say for sure.


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## mafergut (Feb 21, 2016)

I wanted to increase the number of events I do at WC (currently 11) and decided to give it a go at 3BLD, even though I have just been trying 2BLD for only 3 weeks and the last time I attempted 3BLD was almost 2 years ago. Memo was not a problem and, surprisingly, I managed to do corners wrong somehow and ended up with 5 corners wrong but I got all the edges right!!! (with OP, as I have not learned M2 yet).

The scramble was the 1st in the WC#07
1. 15:24.49 D R2 F2 D2 L2 U' R2 F2 R2 U2 R2 F' D' B2 R F D B2 R B R'

Mi memo was:

corners: BH LT NC LN (not sure what the heck I did, the memo is wrong in the end pair and also I executed BC instead of BH, because BH is a bycicle name in Spanish and I imagined a bycicle and recalled as BC instead of BH, so I have to be careful with my letters in memo)

edges: EG OC UP HT LQ + edge in DB is flipped

I'm surprised that I could do the edges okay. It was close enough to a success for almost a 1st time. And yeah, it took 15 minutes 

Any advice? (apart from "learn M2" )


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## muchacho (Feb 21, 2016)

Just one more thing, practice!

Sorry, I had to  ...but yeah, I guess (*) it's like Megaminx, practice is even more important than for other events.

(*) I'm a newbie, I have only tried to memo and solve edges but sighted.

If you just want to increase the number of events it would be easier to learn clock or even feet 

edit:
En BH a Lituania uno que NaCió en León.
A EGipto en OCtubre ¿Arriba? en un HoTEL en Liquidaciones DiaBólicas.


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## Shaky Hands (Feb 21, 2016)

Jason Green said:


> This was my cheat sheet for parity. I had it memorized shortly after I wrote it so I never used it much. I think I watched crazy bad cubers YouTube tutorial and wrote these down. I use number 1 for the first PLL case.
> http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160221/14116712753551ad14ff326c38a38f62.jpg



I didn't even know there was a way of swapping adjacent dedges in the PLL parity above. Obviously I've done the adjacent dedge swap a bunch of times. The setup move to allow the adjacent swap seem easy enough, so will make sure I add this to my repertoire. Thanks very much.


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## h2f (Feb 21, 2016)

mafergut said:


> I wanted to increase the number of events I do at WC (currently 11) and decided to give it a go at 3BLD, even though I have just been trying 2BLD for only 3 weeks and the last time I attempted 3BLD was almost 2 years ago. Memo was not a problem and, surprisingly, I managed to do corners wrong somehow and ended up with 5 corners wrong but I got all the edges right!!! (with OP, as I have not learned M2 yet).
> 
> The scramble was the 1st in the WC#07
> 1. 15:24.49 D R2 F2 D2 L2 U' R2 F2 R2 U2 R2 F' D' B2 R F D B2 R B R'
> ...



That is a nice scramble. I had memo lockup - I forgot to wear blindfold and lost few seconds, but I've lost also my memo and got a lock. Finally I could finish it.


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## RicardoRix (Feb 21, 2016)

mafergut said:


> Any advice? (apart from "learn M2" )



1. Find out what your worst at.
2. Practice that until it's not your weakest part.
3. Repeat 1.

BLD resources:

http://www.speedsolving.com/forum/showthread.php?40921-Noah-s-Blindfolded-Tutorial
http://di-mare.com/scrambld/
http://tobip.ch/letter_pair_generator/
http://csclub.uwaterloo.ca/~krmatthe
https://www.speedsolving.com/forum/showthread.php?56076-Advanced-M2-guide
https://www.speedsolving.com/forum/showthread.php?36963-Guide-to-Transitioning-to-3-Cycle-BLD


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## ryuusei86 (Feb 21, 2016)

muchacho said:


> Don't worry about that, I'm guessing it would as painful as watching this poor guy
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GES2r6vVakc
> 
> Don't give up, you almost have it, watch again those tutorial videos, practice that part a bit and then you could have all the fun





h2f said:


> If I may put an advice: dont do your own method. If you solve Roux way - solve with all steps of that method. Doing bottom edges first ruins all the power of the method. If you dont like M slices or something else - switch to CFOP. At this point you are, you need a patience, because you need tons of solve to learn of good habits. But they will pay you off later with a very good progress. Just try to understand how to orient the edges.
> 
> And talking about parity. Don't be afraid of cube rotations. It's impossible to solve the cube without them (ok. in Roux you can do no ratation).
> 
> Good luck, you can make it!



I appreciate the advice and I think you're both right that I almost have it. The middle slices are plenty useful even in just getting the first two 1x2x3 blocks, so I can see the utility of leaving it available until the end. I will keep watching those videos again and practicing.

As for that video, never mind how bad it looked, I couldn't stand how bad it sounded. I had to stop watching after the scramble because it made my ears hurt. And I thought my Cyclone Boys 3x3 had bad spring noise at first.



newtonbase said:


> Edge flip (Edge at UF)
> r', U2,l,F2,l',F2, r2,U2,r,U2,r', U2, F2,r2,F2 - you can switch all the inner slices moves for wide moves if you prefer on this one
> 
> Opposite edge swap (Edges at UF and UB)
> r2,U2, r2, Uu2,r2,u2


I'll definitely give those a try the next time. My 4x4 is at work at the moment. (Yes, "my" as in "my only one." A GuanSu is on the way since I know this is unacceptable.) 



newtonbase said:


> Cube buying is indeed an illness and is rife on this site. The theoretical cure is to own enough cubes but nobody has ever got into that position.


I am very prone to such illnesses, but this is the cheapest one I've caught in a long time. It seems to me that for $200 one can get enough cubes to last a while at least. Whereas while golfing was never one of my hobbies, I would guess that $200 is hardly enough to get even one golf club set that's worth having.


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## Lid (Feb 21, 2016)

For the "Opposite edge swap" PLL parity on 4x4 I prefer: Rw2 F2 U2 r2 U2 F2 Rw2, especially on 6x6, which also works on 5x5, while the "normal one" does not.


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## h2f (Feb 21, 2016)

Lid said:


> For the "Opposite edge swap" PLL parity on 4x4 I prefer: Rw2 F2 U2 r2 U2 F2 Rw2, especially on 6x6, which also works on 5x5, while the "normal one" does not.



I use it 4bld and 5bld as well. But not in "normal" solves. 

I'm practicing before a competition next Saturday:


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## moralsh (Feb 22, 2016)

I also use it for 4 and 5BLD.

I have been practicing some 5BLD this weekend for next week's comp (yeah, me too Grzegorz xD) which is going to be madness, 128 people and counting. And I'm one of the organizers.

The damn category is no forgiving at all.

DNF because I almost popped a center in the middle of an alg solving wing
DNF by 3 wings
DNF by 2 centers and 4 corners
DNF by 4 centers
DNF by 2 centers
DNF by a lot after executing X centers on + centers, going all the way back and re executing
DNF by 3 centers
DNF by 2 centers again

not a great success rate  , but I'm loving the event


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## mark49152 (Feb 22, 2016)

h2f said:


> I'm practicing before a competition next Saturday:


Very nice .

@Raul: Yeah 5BLD is unforgiving indeed . I'm still undecided whether to do it at my April comp. There's 1 hour for both 4 & 5BLD and I don't want to consume all my 4BLD time on a 5BLD fail. Depending how they organise it, I might only do 5BLD if I get a good PB on my first 4BLD attempt.


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## h2f (Feb 22, 2016)

Thanks. Memo was around 32 but I thought it was faster. Execution inclueded a lot of adv M2 but I've lost scramble and I could make reconstruction. But first pair was UB-UF which I've made M',U2.... And there was parity.

@Raul, It's gonna be fine competition....


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## mafergut (Feb 22, 2016)

Lid said:


> For the "Opposite edge swap" PLL parity on 4x4 I prefer: Rw2 F2 U2 r2 U2 F2 Rw2, especially on 6x6, which also works on 5x5, while the "normal one" does not.



New alg committed to permanent memory (it was easy enough).

Right now I'm just a beginner at 5x5 and my only strategy to pair tredges is:
- freeslice for the first 8 edges. I try to do the white ones and leave them already correctly place as cross on bottom, then I do whatever 4 edges I find easier.
- realign centers and do another 2 edges by slicing - replacing - slicing back, this can take up to 2 step per pair unless I happen to have two pieces connected in some of them.
- do the last 2 edges with the same alg used for 4x4 Yau last two edges (might need to apply twice as well)
- apply parity alg on the last edge if necessary (center piece of the edge flipped). Same alg as 4x4 OLL parity but with 3Rw after Lw.

This nice alg can cover a two last tredge case that would take some fiddling around with my current strategy (invert one of the edges, pair two pieces 1st and then the 3rd) 

Any other uses of that alg on 5x5 that I might be missing?

Also, any recommendations to improve my edge pairing strategy? I have come to that without looking at any tutorials so it might be easy to improve 



h2f said:


> Thanks. Memo was around 32 but I thought it was faster. Execution inclueded a lot of adv M2 but I've lost scramble and I could make reconstruction. But first pair was UB-UF which I've made M',U2.... And there was parity.
> 
> @Raul, It's gonna be fine competition....



Nice to see you solve 3BLD, as always... I have also realized watching your video that you have apparently managed to make your stackmat pro timer work with csTimer. Jason and I would like to know how, as we have both bought cables and left wondering what the heck happens, as it does not work


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## muchacho (Feb 22, 2016)

PBs in the Megaminx race to sub-5 ao12:

Single: 5:18
Ao5: 5:54
Ao12: 6:09

I think I can (maybe) get it within 7 days, what worry me most is that you have a chance of ending this tomorrow at the WC... no pressure btw


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## mafergut (Feb 22, 2016)

muchacho said:


> PBs in the Megaminx race to sub-5 ao12:
> 
> Single: 5:18
> Ao5: 5:54
> ...



My last 7 times make Ao5s of 5:20 to 5:23 so I doubt with another 5 solves I'm gonna make it. I would need to do all below 4:40, which I seriously doubt I can do. So, the chance is yours this week. I'm also a bit distracted trying to get today a success at 3BLD for the WC before they close it tonight.


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## h2f (Feb 22, 2016)

Nice times in mega you got, Raul and David. In this week I'm focused on my pll - I'm gonna drill them till competition and I'll try to do a few hundreds of solves (maybe) and on skewb. I'll do some rest from 3bld to be fresh on Saturday and I'll do only few solves per day. But they are all stackmated. I must achieve good habits in using stackmat.


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## muchacho (Feb 22, 2016)

moralsh is called Raul, mafergut is Miguel Angel (I think).

@moralsh, you don't do Mega?

Good luck in your comps!


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## moralsh (Feb 22, 2016)

Mafergut is Marcos, if I'm not mistaken.

@muchacho: I plan to do mega to get an official single on Murcia, I try to solve it (untimed mostly) every now and then I think I am between 4 and 5 minutes.

I'll try to rack up as many 5bld attempts as I can before friday to see if I can solve confortbly under 30 minutes


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## h2f (Feb 22, 2016)

Sorry for my mistake in names. my memory is weak...


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## mafergut (Feb 22, 2016)

Well, david is right, I'm Miguel Angel or Miguel, for short.
The fault is mine because I don't have a WCA profile where you can check my name, which is what I do with yours whenever I'm in doubt 
So I will point my speedsolving profile to my Youtube channel, where you can check as well

By the way I tried another 3 times at 3BLD and my head hurts. Of course all were DNFs and I couldn't even finish memo in some of them. I get so confused when breaking into new cycles... and I got plenty of those (or so I think).


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## moralsh (Feb 22, 2016)

h2f said:


> Sorry for my mistake in names. my memory is weak...



It's not weak, it's way too focused on BLD events


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## h2f (Feb 22, 2016)

. Yeah. I've made a note. 

@Miguel, breaking in cycles is a problem for everyone who starts with 3bld. Do you want example solve? Just put a scramble and scrabmle in your orientation...


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## mafergut (Feb 22, 2016)

h2f said:


> . Yeah. I've made a note.
> 
> @Miguel, breaking in cycles is a problem for everyone who starts with 3bld. Do you want example solve? Just put a scramble and scrabmle in your orientation...



Yeah, I tried the 3 scrambles from this WC, the first one I posted yesterday with my memo, where there was some mistake in the corners but the edges were just fine. The other two, are these:

2. D2 B2 L' B2 U2 R D2 R2 B2 L' D2 B U' F2 R B2 F2 R' B2 D'
3. B2 L' F' U' B R' L2 D2 B2 D B R2 F L2 B' D2 F2 D2 R2 B'

I scramble in WCA orientation and use that too for memo (white on top, green in front). I don't really remember what I did but I struggled so much with memo of both corners and edges. I have a very difficult time to keep track of the already solved stickers and where I shot when breaking into a new cycle so, when I end up there again and have to break again... I get all the memo messed up. Also a problem is I need so much time I forget my memo and, also, because I have so little practice, I don't know what words to use with most letter pairs  Maybe I should start writting down the memo until I am a bit more efficient tracking the pieces around the cube.


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## moralsh (Feb 22, 2016)

first scramble has 2 cycles in your orientation UBL -> BDL -> FUL and RDF -> BUR -> UFR -> FLD -> DBR -> FRD when breaking into new cycles I usually start with the target (as I did here) if it's not already done, and the stickers with easy set up if it is, you'll get used to it

edges have also two cycles one is UB -> BR -> UB and the other the rest with M2 you find the second cycle just shooting to the target, with OP edges you just have to check which are done and which are not. if you get stuck just check the letters in order

Second has also 2 cycles of corners: UBL -> FRD ->UFL and the rest (I'd break into new cycle starting with BDR as the target was already done

Edges are way worse, 3 cycles and LF flipped, I Use UB and FR for breaking into new cycles in this case, the flipped edge I just remember it.


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## mafergut (Feb 22, 2016)

moralsh said:


> first scramble has 2 cycles in your orientation UBL -> BDL -> FUL and RDF -> BUR -> UFR -> FLD -> DBR -> FRD when breaking into new cycles I usually start with the target (as I did here) if it's not already done, and the stickers with easy set up if it is, you'll get used to it
> 
> edges have also two cycles one is UB -> BR -> UB and the other the rest with M2 you find the second cycle just shooting to the target, with OP edges you just have to check which are done and which are not. if you get stuck just check the letters in order
> 
> ...



Well, I'm glad to know that the scrambles were so bad because I was finding cycles everywere. To be honest I got completely lost with 3rd scramble edges and just executed what I remembered to get the DNF but corners where wrong as well 

I will redo the scrambles and trace them again with your new cycle targets to see if I can make sense of it. I will follow your advice of breaking new cycles with easy targets. For no reason I have been using, for corners, B (UBR) as a new target. Not a bad setup but P (RDF) is much better of course.

Thanks a lot for your help!


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## h2f (Feb 22, 2016)

Scramble: D2 B2 L' B2 U2 R D2 R2 B2 L' D2 B U' F2 R B2 F2 R' B2 D'

FL-DL UF-DR RU-DB FR-UL LB end of cycle. Which one? I have edges I do cycle break always. And they are not solved yet because I havnt mentioned them in my memo. How do I know I'm not finished? Theres only 4 and half pairs and theres no solved edge. So, I've solved 9 edges so far of 11 it should be (last one is solved automaticaly). So I do a cycle break LB-UB (the first sticker I've always take) BR-UB (I'm back to the edge I took so I'm done). Theres 6 pairs, this means 12 edges. So, I'm done.

Corners: BDL-FLU end of cycle. Which one to start? I've always start with a target so: RDF-BRU UBR-FDL DBR-FDR. Im back to corner I've starte a cycle break. Edges are even so there's no parity. I got 4 pairs so far with a cycle break, so I've solved 8 corners of 8 corners. I'm finished. Now time to execute.

Let's review: 
- edges: FL-DL UF-DR RU-DB FR-UL LB-UB BR-UB
- corners: BDL-FLU RDF-BRU UBR-FDL DBR-FDR.


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## Logiqx (Feb 22, 2016)

Selkie said:


> I eventually gave up on trying to reconstruct. Very frustrating as reconstructing is a very useful skill to have. Still searching for the elusive first sub 10 on camera though but not going to get hung up on like I did with sub 15 ao12 and sub 14 ao5 on film



I often have this same trouble and I think it is to do with solving the cube more slowly than the original solve, seeing more options and/or thinking too much during the reconstruction.

I think the best approach may be to re-solve the cube at full speed (reducing the chances of spotting alternative pairs / solutions) and after nailing it a second / third time, re-constructing at a slower speed.

Catching PBs on film is the other option but even more difficult to achieve.


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## h2f (Feb 22, 2016)

I got pb in 3x3: 12.18 with PLL skip. 

L R2 F2 L2 U2 B U2 F' D2 L2 B U' B D' U2 B' F2 R2 B'
z2 // preinspection
F' D' F' R' F' // cross
R U' R' U' L' U' L // first pair
R U R' U' R U R' U' U2 L U L' //second pair
U' R U' R' y R U R' //3rd
y2 R' U2 R U2 R' U R //4th
U' R U R' U' M' U R U' r' //OLL
U//PLL
alg.cubing.net

TPS 4.10


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## mafergut (Feb 22, 2016)

h2f said:


> I got pb in 3x3: 12.18 with PLL skip.
> 
> L R2 F2 L2 U2 B U2 F' D2 L2 B U' B D' U2 B' F2 R2 B'
> z2 // preinspection
> ...



Nice!!! And good TPS. What was your previous one?


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## moralsh (Feb 22, 2016)

Great!, I'm still stuck with 13.xx. I have to be one of the persons with a closest PB to official PB ratio (less than 2 seconds)


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## muchacho (Feb 22, 2016)

Congrats! must feel nice to get PBs before a comp.


_Previous one was 13.68 if the document in his signature was updated._


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## h2f (Feb 22, 2016)

Thanks. Yes, it was 13.68 but I dont know TPS - I couldnt make a reconstruction. 

@Raul- I've felt the same though my ration is much lower than yours.


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## mafergut (Feb 22, 2016)

muchacho said:


> PBs in the Megaminx race to sub-5 ao12 [...] I think I can (maybe) get it within 7 days, what worry me most is that you have a chance of ending this tomorrow at the WC... no pressure btw



I did another Mega solve (so that I do 6 a week with the 5 scrambles from WC that will be published tomorrow) and got another sub-5 but far from the needed 4:40 or lower. It was just a 4:57.48. Not gonna make it this week I'm afraid  I just checked the timer after finishing S2L and it was 3:53. That means my LL takes more than 1 minute


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## earth2dan (Feb 22, 2016)

I'm hoping to get some advice from from experience blind solvers here. I'm taking my first serious stab at blind solving today. The Pochmann method is easy for me to understand. Basically just a setup move then Y-Perm for corners and T-Perm for edges, and an R-Perm for parity. All algorithms I'm already very comfortable with. I looked at M2 method for edges and, admittedly, it did not click right away. 

My question is; Should I use the Pochmann method now (because it's easy to understand) while I work on my memory technique? Or should I just learn M2 now?


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## SenorJuan (Feb 22, 2016)

A good time, there, h2f, especially considering the number of turns, and that y2...
A few ideas worth considering:

L R2 F2 L2 U2 B U2 F' D2 L2 B U' B D' U2 B' F2 R2 B'
z2 // preinspection
F' D' F' R' F' // cross
R U' R' U' L' U' L // first pair
R U R' U' R U R' U' U2 L U L' //second pair
U' R U' R' y R U R' //3rd
y2 R' U2 R U2 R' U R //4th
U' R U R' U' M' U R U' r' //OLL
U//PLL
The 4th pair would be better without the half-turn before it, inserting to the front left corner slot, like
L' U2 L U2 L' U L or maybe z U' R2 U R2 U' R U z'
For the 2nd pair, the sledgehammer is one 'intuitive' answer
either U R' F R F' y U' R' U' R or U' F R' F' R U L U L' or U' F R' F' R z R U R U' z'
or if you spotted it, the back right slot had a couple of setup options:
L U' L' y U2 R U R' (using the empty slot) or U2 R U' R y R U R'


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## mafergut (Feb 22, 2016)

earth2dan said:


> I'm hoping to get some advice from from experience blind solvers here. I'm taking my first serious stab at blind solving today. The Pochmann method is easy for me to understand. Basically just a setup move then Y-Perm for corners and T-Perm for edges, and an R-Perm for parity. All algorithms I'm already very comfortable with. I looked at M2 method for edges and, admittedly, it did not click right away.
> 
> My question is; Should I use the Pochmann method now (because it's easy to understand) while I work on my memory technique? Or should I just learn M2 now?



They are going to tell you to learn M2 now. They told me the same some days ago  But, of course, as I cannot unlearn OP I just tried some solves with that this week, to just get some wonderful DNFs  Anyway, I'll let them tell you themselves.


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## mark49152 (Feb 22, 2016)

mafergut said:


> They are going to tell you to learn M2 now. They told me the same some days ago  But, of course, as I cannot unlearn OP I just tried some solves with that this week, to just get some wonderful DNFs  Anyway, I'll let them tell you themselves.


Learn M2 now


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## newtonbase (Feb 22, 2016)

mafergut said:


> They are going to tell you to learn M2 now.



Do it.


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## earth2dan (Feb 22, 2016)

mafergut said:


> They are going to tell you to learn M2 now





mark49152 said:


> Learn M2 now





newtonbase said:


> Do it.



Haha. Well then, I guess that settles that  Thanks folks, M2 it is!


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## newtonbase (Feb 22, 2016)

earth2dan said:


> Haha. Well then, I guess that settles that  Thanks folks, M2 it is!



You won't regret it. It's a little harder to learn but much more interesting than spamming the same perms over and over.


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## chtiger (Feb 22, 2016)

It's not much of an accomplishment compared to what others here have been doing lately, but after about a week of frustration and a couple of near misses today, I finally got a sub-2:00 3BLD.

1:53.53 U' B R' U' R D B' U D2 L' B2 U' R2 D' L2 U D' R2 U' L2 B2 Easyish scramble, but that's usually what it takes to get a PB.

I think I may have hurt my back a little bit celebrating. The problems us older cubers have to deal with.


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## h2f (Feb 22, 2016)

SenorJuan said:


> The 4th pair would be better without the half-turn before it, inserting to the front left corner slot, like
> L' U2 L U2 L' U L or maybe z U' R2 U R2 U' R U z'
> For the 2nd pair, the sledgehammer is one 'intuitive' answer
> either U R' F R F' y U' R' U' R or U' F R' F' R U L U L' or U' F R' F' R z R U R U' z'
> ...



Thanks for a feedback. Yeah, 4th pair could be done better without y2 but I didnt notice. This is the f2l I have a problem with. In slow turning I can do it in few ways including wide moves but in speedsolves - I fail. I could do that without y2 and with U setup for H OLL it gives PLL skip too. Thanks for advice for 2nd pair - looks nice. 

@chtiger - congrats. Feels great?


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## newtonbase (Feb 22, 2016)

chtiger said:


> It's not much of an accomplishment compared to what others here have been doing lately, but after about a week of frustration and a couple of near misses today, I finally got a sub-2:00 3BLD.
> 
> 1:53.53 U' B R' U' R D B' U D2 L' B2 U' R2 D' L2 U D' R2 U' L2 B2 Easyish scramble, but that's usually what it takes to get a PB.
> 
> I think I may have hurt my back a little bit celebrating. The problems us older cubers have to deal with.



Sub 2 is excellent. I've been avoiding timing solves as I've been working on better memo but that might have to be my next target.

Edit: Quick attempt. Rescrambled cube in about 3:30. Work to do.


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## MarcelP (Feb 23, 2016)

h2f said:


> I got pb in 3x3: 12.18 with PLL skip.
> 
> L R2 F2 L2 U2 B U2 F' D2 L2 B U' B D' U2 B' F2 R2 B'
> z2 // preinspection
> ...



Nice.. I think your should forget about BLD for a while and focus on what is really important.  (LOL only kidding...)


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## muchacho (Feb 23, 2016)

3x3 ao12 PB: 22.70 (previous one was 23.12 from 9 days ago). Just after setting that PB I tried the scrambles of the race to sub-25 and I did 23.17, first time I get a sub-25 average there... I'm still usually averaging like 26, but I'll take it, nice session 

Megaminx:
5:07 single
5:29 ao5
5:58 ao12


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## mark49152 (Feb 23, 2016)

Quick update. I have been doing mostly 4x4 and 4BLD but not had much time to practise recently. I've come to the conclusion that BLD and BigBLD in particular is harder to recover after a longish break. Most other events take 2-3 averages to get back, but BLD gets stuck in a frustrating rut of DNFs and struggle memos. My 4BLD is back up to 12-14 minutes with about a 20% success rate. Got a long way to go before Exeter!


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## mafergut (Feb 23, 2016)

muchacho said:


> 3x3 ao12 PB: 22.70 (previous one was 23.12 from 9 days ago). Just after setting that PB I tried the scrambles of the race to sub-25 and I did 23.17, first time I get a sub-25 average there... I'm still usually averaging like 26, but I'll take it, nice session
> 
> Megaminx:
> 5:07 single
> ...



U r so close... 
If you keep improving I will have to practise more myself. The trigger probably being your 1st sub-5 single.


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## muchacho (Feb 23, 2016)

Like 1 extra solve for every sub-5 I get?


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## mafergut (Feb 23, 2016)

muchacho said:


> Like 1 extra solve for every sub-5 I get?



I don't think I can practise at all until Thursday. Depending on the times you are getting by then, I'll do as many as I can during the weekend to try and put up some fight, unless you settle the race by winning before that, of course.


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## Shaky Hands (Feb 23, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> Finally got around to buying a Thunderclap to replace the one I gave away at Manchester. Got an extra in case I go for 3 in multi.



Did you get Thunderclaps specifically for BLD? I feel these cubes are great for M slices (best I've encountered at least) but I get a few too many corner-twists to be confident using them for regular solves.


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## muchacho (Feb 23, 2016)

I use the Thunderclap for regular solves, I get like 1 corner twist every 500-1000 solves, and M moves are fine. I haven't practiced enough BLD yet but I get why this cube would be good for that, I'll use this or the Weilong.


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## mark49152 (Feb 23, 2016)

Shaky Hands said:


> Did you get Thunderclaps specifically for BLD? I feel these cubes are great for M slices (best I've encountered at least) but I get a few too many corner-twists to be confident using them for regular solves.


They are great for BLD. I have ordered a load for multi.


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## mafergut (Feb 23, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> They are great for BLD. I have ordered a load for multi.



I have enough different 3x3s (more than 10 usable, more than 15 total) that I don't think I will ever need more than that for a multi attempt  Of course it's not the same that using a bunch of identical cubes but, of course, I don't plan on beating any records or anything (unless it's illegal to use different cubes in a multi attempt at a comp). I assume that you need to be confortable and confident with the cubes for BLD so, going for something ultra-cheap like Guanlongs wouldn't be a good idea? Because, if you are going to buy like 30 or so, there is quite a difference. Guanlongs can be purchased by little more than $1.2 and Thunderclaps are more like $5.


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## Shaky Hands (Feb 23, 2016)

muchacho said:


> I use the Thunderclap for regular solves, I get like 1 corner twist every 500-1000 solves, and M moves are fine. I haven't practiced enough BLD yet but I get why this cube would be good for that, I'll use this or the Weilong.



It's probably a problem with my turning style then.


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## mark49152 (Feb 23, 2016)

mafergut said:


> I have enough different 3x3s (more than 10 usable, more than 15 total) that I don't think I will ever need more than that for a multi attempt  Of course it's not the same that using a bunch of identical cubes but, of course, I don't plan on beating any records or anything (unless it's illegal to use different cubes in a multi attempt at a comp). I assume that you need to be confortable and confident with the cubes for BLD so, going for something ultra-cheap like Guanlongs wouldn't be a good idea? Because, if you are going to buy like 30 or so, there is quite a difference. Guanlongs can be purchased by little more than $1.2 and Thunderclaps are more like $5.


Personal preference. Until now I have used a mixture but I find it distracting to have different feels for each cube. I ordered one each of the cheap cubes to see what I like best, and chose Thunderclap. They are about $3 if ordered in quantity - the shipping costs more than the cubes.


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## muchacho (Feb 23, 2016)

Then how much per Thunderclap including shipping? $6? I bought 2 a couple of weeks ago, the cheapest I found I think it was $5.70 per cube including shipping (cubezz.com, but I bought them in zcube.hk because I was also buying other cube from there).


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## RicardoRix (Feb 23, 2016)

Doesn't using different cubes and the different feel of a cube perhaps help with recalling the memo? 
You would have perhaps at least sub consciously thought, it's that memo with the Red sports car that I did with the Zhanchi.


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## mark49152 (Feb 23, 2016)

muchacho said:


> Then how much per Thunderclap including shipping? $6? I bought 2 a couple of weeks ago, the cheapest I found I think it was $5.70 per cube including shipping (cubezz.com, but I bought them in zcube.hk because I was also buying other cube from there).


I don't know, I'd have to go calculate it, but I'd have paid shipping for Guanlongs too. The price difference between 10 Thunderclaps and 10 Guanlongs is like the cost of a sandwich.



RicardoRix said:


> Doesn't using different cubes and the different feel of a cube perhaps help with recalling the memo?
> You would have perhaps at least sub consciously thought, it's that memo with the Red sports car that I did with the Zhanchi.


The thing I find distracting is the different feel while doing algs, especially Y-perm. Just as I get used to one cube, I have to switch to another and the change in feel can make me lock or fumble an alg. 

I haven't noticed the memo benefit you suggest, maybe because you don't turn the cube during memo. I don't really notice for example whether I'm memoing a Weilong or a Hualong since they look so similar.


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## mafergut (Feb 23, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> I don't know, I'd have to go calculate it, but I'd have paid shipping for Guanlongs too. The price difference between 10 Thunderclaps and 10 Guanlongs is like the cost of a sandwich.
> 
> 
> The thing I find distracting is the different feel while doing algs, especially Y-perm. Just as I get used to one cube, I have to switch to another and the change in feel can make me lock or fumble an alg.
> ...



Very reasonable. And the reason why I thought maybe it was illegal was exactly what RicardoRix suggested, the possible advantage in recalling because of the different cubes but I also think that the risk of messing up an alg because of the different feel is quite high. Anyway, for me to just practice at home with 2 to 5 cubes, which is the most I can see me doing in the coming two years at least, I don't think it's worth it to buy 10 Thunderclaps (or, in my case, Chilongs, which are more or less equally cheap). Mmmm, Sulongs are not bad either and they are like $3.7 each.


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## MarcelP (Feb 23, 2016)

So I did a slow turning sub sub 10 here..


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## Logiqx (Feb 23, 2016)

Finally... I got off my arse and coded this in Python; automated download through to generation of the BB code. 

https://www.speedsolving.com/forum/...competitions&p=1153846&viewfull=1#post1153846

Give me a nudge when you want to see it updated.


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## mafergut (Feb 23, 2016)

MarcelP said:


> So I did a slow turning sub sub 10 here..
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NZFp19FcdtQ&feature=youtu.be&a



Incredible!!!! He makes it seem so easy...


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## newtonbase (Feb 23, 2016)

Shaky Hands said:


> Did you get Thunderclaps specifically for BLD? I feel these cubes are great for M slices (best I've encountered at least) but I get a few too many corner-twists to be confident using them for regular solves.



Yes. The Thunderclap feels solid and reliable. The clickiness makes it easy to hear and feel what I'm doing. The only problems I have with corner twists is if someone else is using them. I never get them myself.


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## Selkie (Feb 23, 2016)

MarcelP said:


> So I did a slow turning sub sub 10 here..
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NZFp19FcdtQ&feature=youtu.be&a



Hehe, that some impressive slow turn. Wow!

Should I be aiming for lower than sub 15 ao100?!....


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## Jason Green (Feb 23, 2016)

Logiqx said:


> Finally... I got off my arse and coded this in Python; automated download through to generation of the BB code.
> 
> https://www.speedsolving.com/forum/...competitions&p=1153846&viewfull=1#post1153846
> 
> Give me a nudge when you want to see it updated.


Thanks so much that is awesome! So this is all the WCA official results right? Does it query by age or do you have to specify what users to pull?

I'm trying to see if it is valid to say I am officially the 26th faster cuber over 40 in the world.


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## h2f (Feb 23, 2016)

MarcelP said:


> So I did a slow turning sub sub 10 here..
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NZFp19FcdtQ&feature=youtu.be&a


Unbeliveable.

patataj patataj patataj


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## Logiqx (Feb 23, 2016)

Jason Green said:


> Thanks so much that is awesome! So this is all the WCA official results right? Does it query by age or do you have to specify what users to pull?
> 
> I'm trying to see if it is valid to say I am officially the 26th faster cuber over 40 in the world.



Unfortunately it's not a full list as the WCA don't provide ages in their database.

I believe they plan to allow people to "opt in" to sharing their age at some time in the future.


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## Selkie (Feb 23, 2016)

Logiqx said:


> Finally... I got off my arse and coded this in Python; automated download through to generation of the BB code.
> 
> https://www.speedsolving.com/forum/...competitions&p=1153846&viewfull=1#post1153846
> 
> Give me a nudge when you want to see it updated.



I completely forgot about this thread. The real irony is I forget a lot of stuff at my age like really stupid things like "Did I lock the door 10 seconds ago!" So pleased so much solving is in muscle memory 

Interesting to know I'm second in magic and mmagic, a retired sport bbut motivating to see how many ranks I can climb by getting 'X' better at a certain discipline.

More than anything I think this thread and your work are important so as to show more mature cubers they aren't 100000th etc. Will be waiting with baited breath to see how I improve in the ranking after Exeter Open in April :tu


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## Jason Green (Feb 23, 2016)

Logiqx said:


> Unfortunately it's not a full list as the WCA don't provide ages in their database.
> 
> I believe they plan to allow people to "opt in" to sharing their age at some time in the future.


Ok so I guess I'll say I'm the 26th fastest known cuber.  (over 40, maybe I'll just mumble that bit at the end)

This thread was on my mind a lot at my first comp last month. I really wanted to not DNF so I could be listed. Haha. Thanks again, it's a lot of fun for me. 

On a different topic some of the teachers at my son's kinder found out about my cubing and were pretty excited about it. They asked if I'd like to start a cubing club at the school, and I said yes! So I'm anxious to see what comes of that!


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## mark49152 (Feb 23, 2016)

Jason Green said:


> On a different topic some of the teachers at my son's kinder found out about my cubing and were pretty excited about it. They asked if I'd like to start a cubing club at the school, and I said yes! So I'm anxious to see what comes of that!


Now that is cool - good luck! 

Finally tonight a 4BLD success, after 6 slow motion car-crash DNFs in a row. And it wasn't too slow either, at 10:15. I was on the verge of giving up on 4BLD! The last 3 attempts were done in a hotel bathroom as the light in the main bedroom is awful. I think my recent mistakes have been execution not memo, due to the number of pieces messed up, but I have no idea what I've been doing wrong and haven't been able to diagnose.


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## Selkie (Feb 23, 2016)

Jason Green said:


> This thread was on my mind a lot at my first comp last month. I really wanted to not DNF so I could be listed. Haha. Thanks again, it's a lot of fun for me.
> 
> On a different topic some of the teachers at my son's kinder found out about my cubing and were pretty excited about it. They asked if I'd like to start a cubing club at the school, and I said yes! So I'm anxious to see what comes of that!



That's is great news Jason, go for it. We sometimes cocoon ourselves in the speed cubing world and compare ourselves to sub 10 averages when in reality speed cubing is a niche group and anyone outside is in awe of our acomplishments. I am all for spreading the past time :tu



mark49152 said:


> Finally tonight a 4BLD success, after 6 slow motion car-crash DNFs in a row. And it wasn't too slow either, at 10:15. I was on the verge of giving up on 4BLD! The last 3 attempts were done in a hotel bathroom as the light in the main bedroom is awful. I think my recent mistakes have been execution not memo, due to the number of pieces messed up, but I have no idea what I've been doing wrong and haven't been able to diagnose.



Congratulations, sounds like it had been well, well earned sir. Persistence at BLD apparently does pay off and reminds me of my commitment to Exeter in April and BLD, a commitment for which I am struggling badly. Horses, courses and all that


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## newtonbase (Feb 24, 2016)

Did my first timed 3x3 solves since Manchester and initial thoughts were "dear God, what have I done" as I got a 1:24 and a 53s. It did improve but it shows how quickly we get rusty. I'll make myself do at least an AO12 daily as I work on 3BLD. My newly acquired g-perms are far from competition ready.


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## muchacho (Feb 24, 2016)

Good job everyone! the slow turning ao5 being the least impressive of all


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## h2f (Feb 24, 2016)

Morning session 20.02 ao50 and i had to leave home.

patataj patataj patataj


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## Shaky Hands (Feb 24, 2016)

Looks like everyone has been making some good progress. Congratulations everyone.

It does make me want to share my own achievements in the past week.

1. first sub-30 Ao100 at 3x3 (29.48)
2. 2nd successful week in the Race to Sub-30 thread in the Forum Competitions folder; hopefully next week will earn me a graduation
3. first sub-20 at Clock (19.xx)
4. first sub-30 Ao25 at Clock (27.57)
5. new PB at 4x4 (2m 3s, still a long way from UK average cutoff but it's heading in the right direction)
6. learned a random OLL case (#44, M' U M U2 M' U M)

My 5x5 solve times remain laughable and my main reason for registering for it at the next competition is to encourage me to practice it more. There are some PLL's I really struggle with on cubes bigger than 3x3 (F, G's, Ja, Na) that I need to drill a bit more to improve the muscle memory.


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## Logiqx (Feb 24, 2016)

Nice session...

13+: 1
14+: 3
15+: 6
16+: 14
17+: 26
18+: 20
19+: 16
20+: 9
21+: 2
22+: 2
23+: 1



Spoiler



Generated By csTimer on 2016-2-24
solves/total: 100/100

single
best: 13.95
worst: 23.04

mean of 3
current: 18.79 (σ = 1.88)
best: 15.46 (σ = 1.78)

avg of 5
current: 18.79 (σ = 1.88)
best: 15.66 (σ = 1.00)

avg of 12
current: 18.81 (σ = 2.30)
best: 17.24 (σ = 1.54)

avg of 50
current: 18.12 (σ = 1.42)
best: 17.87 (σ = 1.37)

avg of 100
current: 18.13 (σ = 1.37)
best: 18.13 (σ = 1.37)

Average: 18.13 (σ = 1.37)
Mean: 18.15

Time List:
1. 20.48 L B D2 B U F' L B2 D R2 B' R2 F2 B D2 F' R2 D2 F U2 
2. 18.00 R L2 D2 F2 R2 D2 F2 D' B2 U R2 D2 R F' L2 B U' L R B' D' 
3. 16.63 U L2 F L2 F' L2 D2 R2 F2 R2 B D' R D2 B L2 R2 D' B' R' 
4. 18.97 U' R' F2 R2 L' B' L U L' F U' B2 D B2 R2 B2 L2 D L2 D' 
5. 17.98 D' F2 U' R2 D' L2 U2 R2 U F2 R2 F' U2 B L2 R' D B' L' F R 
6. 16.36 F' R2 L U D2 R B' U F U' D2 R' D2 R2 D2 R B2 L U2 
7. 17.16 U' R U B2 D2 F B' R2 U' L' D2 R' D2 L' F2 L2 U2 F2 R' 
8. 20.40 B2 D2 B L2 R2 U2 L2 F' L2 F' R2 L D' R' D2 R2 F' R' D U2 L' 
9. 19.87 U R B2 D2 R' B2 U2 R2 U2 L' R2 B' R F2 U' L' R D2 L' D' 
10. 16.16 L2 U' B2 U B2 U L2 R2 B2 U B2 L' F2 L2 B' R2 U' F D2 R' 
11. 19.66 L2 F R B2 D' R F' B L2 D2 F2 R' U2 B2 L2 F2 L B2 L F 
12. 17.82 U2 L B2 R' B2 F2 D2 R' D2 B2 L' U' R2 B2 F L' D L2 B' F' L' 
13. 18.46 F2 D' L2 R2 B2 U2 R2 U B2 U' R B L2 F' R D' L' D B D2 
14. 18.73 F2 U' R2 U2 R2 D B2 D B2 D R B F2 U' L2 F D F' L2 U2 
15. 16.66 U' F' L2 R2 B L2 F' D2 L2 B D2 F D L2 U L D L2 R B2 
16. 18.53 R2 F2 R' F2 L B2 R' B2 R' B2 U2 B R B U' F' D' B' R U' F2 
17. 18.00 R2 D' B2 F2 D2 B2 U' R2 B2 L2 D2 F' D R U2 F' D B F' L U' 
18. 17.27 R B2 L U2 L2 B2 R2 B2 D2 R B2 F' R2 D B L' D2 B R' F2 L' 
19. 14.86 B2 U L2 R2 U' F2 R2 B2 F2 U' R2 F L' U' F2 U B' D' F L' B2 
20. 17.88 F2 U' B' L' U F' R2 U' F U2 F2 U R2 B2 U R2 D R2 D2 R2 L' 
21. 17.15 F D2 R' L D' B' R D L2 F2 U2 R' F2 U2 L' U2 B2 U2 L D' 
22. 16.90 B2 R2 B' U2 F' D2 L2 F' L2 R2 F U L' B' L2 D U2 B F2 R' F 
23. 20.06 B2 U2 R2 B2 R' F2 R2 F2 L B' U2 B' L B D2 B' D' B2 U 
24. 17.40 F' U' F' D' R' D2 L2 U R2 D2 B2 R2 F2 L' D2 R2 F2 D2 R F 
25. 19.91 R2 D2 B' D2 B D2 F2 U2 R2 B' R2 L B U' R' B L2 F' L' D F' 
26. 17.24 L2 F D2 R2 D2 U2 B2 L2 B' U2 B' D' F R' B' L2 R2 D2 R' U2 
27. 16.71 R2 B' L2 F' U2 B R2 U2 F D' R B' F2 U L2 B2 U' F U' 
28. 17.89 R2 D2 F2 D L2 R2 F2 L2 B R' F' U2 B F2 R' U2 F D 
29. 17.92 F' R2 F' U2 F' L2 R2 F' R2 B D' F R2 U F' U2 F2 R' B' U 
30. 18.17 U' B' R2 U2 F' U2 R2 U2 B D2 L2 F L U F2 L' D2 B' D2 F' L2 
31. 14.58 U' B2 D U' B2 R2 B2 R2 D2 R2 U' B R' B F L D2 B R' F R' 
32. 20.64 R2 D2 B2 U F2 D B2 U' L2 B2 R' U' L' U' F L' B2 D' U R 
33. 17.72 F2 D2 B L2 F2 R2 F' D2 L2 R2 F2 R' B D' F' U2 R' U F L2 B2 
34. 17.13 R D2 L F2 L R2 D2 F2 R F2 R B D2 U R' F D B U2 F' R2 
35. 20.13 F' U2 F2 D' B2 U' F2 D F2 L2 B2 R2 B' D F R' U' B L2 U R' 
36. 17.97 U2 F' D2 B' D2 B D2 F2 D2 L2 U2 L U' B' D B' L' R' F D 
37. 21.81 U2 R2 F' R2 F R2 D2 F2 R2 B R2 D' L F' R D' R' B' U2 F2 R 
38. 22.36 R F2 D' U' R2 D2 U R2 B2 D' R2 B' R' B2 D F L' D2 U2 F' 
39. 14.07 L' B2 L2 D2 F2 D2 B' F2 U2 R2 D' F2 D R U' B' F2 L' U' 
40. 19.72 L D2 U2 F2 R' F2 L2 D2 R B2 R' B U' B L' D' R D' B L F' 
41. 17.28 D F' U' L B U2 R D B' D' R2 L2 D' R2 D F2 D L2 F2 R' 
42. 18.70 R2 D2 U2 F' U2 L2 B2 R2 F R2 F D' F R' B F' L2 U F' R' U2 
43. 19.01 D2 R U2 R U2 B2 R U2 F2 R2 B' L2 U R' F L D F L2 
44. 19.31 B2 L2 D L2 F2 L2 D2 B2 U R2 D R' F L' F D' L' B' F' D' F2 
45. 18.95 R' D R2 F2 D2 B2 R2 U B2 D B R' D U F' U2 B2 U' B 
46. 16.54 R2 D2 B2 F2 L2 D F2 U' L2 U' B R F2 U F2 U2 L' D2 U2 L' 
47. 16.11 U' D2 B2 L' D2 F2 L' D2 U2 R' U2 R' D' L2 B R' U' L U2 B2 
48. 18.08 B F D2 L2 R2 F' L2 U' B' L' R2 F2 U B L F2 L2 
49. 17.03 U2 F D2 F' D2 R2 D2 L2 U2 F2 U2 R U' L' F' R B2 D2 F2 D U 
50. 19.68 F L2 B' R2 F' L2 B' F2 U B2 D' F' D' F' L B' U2 F 
51. 18.28 D2 B2 L B2 L U2 R' B2 L B2 R' B D' R U B U2 R' D' F2 
52. 21.57 F R2 B U2 B' U2 F' L2 U2 B D2 R' B' U2 L' F R' U F2 R B 
53. 18.83 B D' R2 U L2 D2 L2 B2 D F2 D' R D2 L' F2 R U2 B2 F' L2 
54. 16.81 B2 L2 F2 L U2 F2 R2 B2 L2 B' D' L D2 U' F' D2 F R F2 
55. 15.15 L2 D F R' U F' D' B2 U' B' U' F2 D' L2 U B2 U' F2 
56. 15.00 B' R2 F' D2 F' L2 R2 B U2 D' F D L' B' R F R2 D' F' 
57. 17.42 L2 U2 F2 U' B2 D L2 B2 L2 F2 D2 B L B2 U L' B2 U2 R U' 
58. 13.95 F U' D2 B D' B2 D F' B R D R2 U L2 D' R2 F2 D2 R2 D 
59. 17.20 U' R2 F2 U2 R2 D' L2 R2 D2 F2 U' R' F' D2 L' U' R' U' B2 F 
60. 19.73 U2 R2 L2 B' D' R2 B R' B U F2 R2 U' B2 R2 D L2 B2 D' F2 
61. 20.29 B2 U D' L' B U' R D L2 B L2 U' R2 U' R2 U R2 U' L2 U' F2 
62. 19.88 U2 L2 U' R2 U R2 B2 U2 F2 U F2 L' R2 F L' R U B' R U R2 
63. 17.77 D' F2 D2 L' U2 F2 R' U2 R2 F2 U2 D B' F U' L2 R F' L F 
64. 18.10 D2 R' U' F L D R2 F' R B U2 D2 R2 F2 D R2 L2 U F2 L2 
65. 17.58 F B U D2 B' D' L' U L2 U L2 F2 L2 U' D2 R2 D' B2 R' 
66. 19.33 F2 B R D F' U D2 R D' B L2 D2 B2 U' F2 B2 L2 D L2 U B2 
67. 19.90 B' L2 F' R2 D2 F D2 L2 D2 B' R2 L' B' R2 D U' B2 F2 R B U' 
68. 19.62 F2 U2 B2 U' F2 U B2 R2 D' L2 U' L' U F R2 D L F R2 U2 L2 
69. 18.75 U2 R' B2 F2 U2 R' B2 D2 F2 R2 D B2 U' B U' L D2 R2 U L' 
70. 18.20 R F2 B U D F D F L B L2 U' F2 U' R2 D2 R2 F2 U B2 
71. 17.68 D U L2 B2 D B2 F2 U B2 D' F2 R B' D2 L' R2 D2 R D F' D 
72. 19.73 D' F2 U R2 D L2 D F2 R2 D R D F' R' U R' D L R' 
73. 19.01 R' L2 B' R2 F R2 F' L2 R2 D2 B' R' D L R U2 L' U' B F' 
74. 18.60 U' R' D2 F U' L U2 B' L F R2 U2 L2 B2 D L2 B2 D F2 R2 
75. 20.13 R2 F U' F2 R U B D B' L2 B U2 B R2 B2 R2 D2 B U2 L' 
76. 15.37 L2 B' R2 F R2 U2 L2 D2 B' L2 B2 U L' R' D R' U2 F' U B' R2 
77. 17.23 F D2 L2 F2 D2 U2 F R2 B R2 D2 L D B' R2 D' U R2 F L' U2 
78. 17.99 R U' R2 L2 B U2 R L D' B L2 F2 L D2 R2 B2 U2 F2 R D2 
79. 16.26 F2 R2 U F2 D F2 L2 D2 L2 U L D2 R B2 F2 L2 D B' D2 U2 
80. 18.11 B2 F2 R B2 L B2 R U2 R' D2 F2 D' B' L2 D' L2 F2 R F R 
81. 16.99 U' R2 D R2 U R2 U R2 F2 R2 U R' D U L' B D F' D' U' B 
82. 16.98 F' R' U D2 R' L D R2 B' D F D2 F2 R2 F R2 L2 U2 B' U2 
83. 17.84 D' R2 D' L2 U' B2 D' L2 R2 B2 R' D' B D' L2 B U' L' B2 L' 
84. 16.46 F' D' B L U' R U2 L F2 L' D B2 R2 U' L2 D L2 U2 R2 
85. 17.96 F L2 R2 D2 R2 B2 F L2 B D2 F' D L' U L2 R' U2 F' L B' 
86. 17.48 U2 L2 D2 F2 R2 F2 U' F2 R2 U' F2 L F U F R' D2 B F L' F2 
87. 18.40 U' B2 L' U F U L' F D' F R2 D2 B2 R2 B U2 F D2 R2 B' 
88. 17.05 D2 L2 B2 D2 B2 D' R2 U L2 B2 F R B' U F L' R2 D' B F R' 
89. 20.06 L2 F2 D2 B L2 F' U2 L2 U2 L2 F' D L U' B' U2 L' F L2 R' D 
90. 22.90 F' U2 R2 B2 D2 R B2 F2 U2 B2 F2 L U' L2 F2 L' F D' F' U2 L' 
91. 18.43 D' R2 F2 B' U' R L' U L2 F' D2 F2 B2 L2 U2 D' F2 L2 B2 
92. 19.84 R' U' D' R' F' B' R' U' L' B' L F2 B2 R U2 L' U2 R' F2 U2 
93. 15.45 U2 F' D2 L2 B' D2 F2 U2 B' U2 D L2 U B' U2 F R U' B F' 
94. 15.22 R D2 L' F2 D2 L' R' U2 B2 L U L2 R2 F' L B' D U' R' 
95. 19.29 L' F2 L' U2 R2 D2 F2 R F2 D2 R' D U R' D R B' F R2 U2 R' 
96. 15.69 U2 L2 F2 U L2 U' R2 F2 D' L2 B2 L F' R2 D2 R' F U B2 L' D' 
97. 23.04 B2 F2 R2 D' F2 D' B2 R2 D U F L' B' U2 B F2 L B' R U' 
98. 18.87 R2 L B D B' L2 F2 L' F' D2 F2 L U2 D2 F2 R D2 L2 F2 D2 
99. 16.86 D' L2 F2 L2 D F2 L2 D L2 R2 D2 L' D R F R' F2 U2 R U' 
100. 20.62 B2 D' L2 U2 L2 B2 R2 B2 D2 U' B' L D' L' F' R' B2 U2 L2 F2


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## MarcelP (Feb 24, 2016)

h2f said:


> Morning session 20.02 ao50 and i had to leave home.
> 
> patataj patataj patataj


So close to getting 19.xx averages  Good job!



Logiqx said:


> Nice session...
> 
> 13+: 1
> 14+: 3
> ...



sub 18 Ao50 in there,, That is pretty cool


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## earth2dan (Feb 24, 2016)

Shaky Hands said:


> Looks like everyone has been making some good progress. Congratulations everyone.
> 
> It does make me want to share my own achievements in the past week.
> 
> ...



Nice. My 4x4 times were around 2:15 when I started breaking sub-30 on 3x3 so I'd say you're right on pace. I'm still not great at 5x5 either, but I've been practicing a bunch and am close to pulling down sub 3:00 averages. Cyoubx has a 5x5 video series that really helped me. After taking some of his pointers I went from 5:00+ to sub 4:00 in just a few days. Here's a link if you want to check it out. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEEXkFtTfXA.

There are some big cube PLL algs you could look up that might make life easier for you, depending on what 3x3 algs you're using now. My approach was to practice slowly executing PLL's on 3x3 and paying close attention to how they work. Sometimes when we commit them to muscle memory we totally forget how to execute them slowly, which will kill you on big cubes. This can also help you recover from a botched PLL.


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## Selkie (Feb 24, 2016)

Indeed I have a number of algs that I cannot perform on big cubes as the fast execution on 3x3 has burned into muscle and I just cannot repeat them slowly.

Couple of great averages there h2f and Logiqx.

Back on 3x3 and following that highly unimpressive 9.8 avg haha been working on all out TPS to the extent my hands physically wont go faster, desperately hanging onto look ahead for dear life. Sub 15.75 Ao25. Hmm, might be some improvement to be had - at the expense of hand ache


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## Shaky Hands (Feb 24, 2016)

earth2dan said:


> Nice. My 4x4 times were around 2:15 when I started breaking sub-30 on 3x3 so I'd say you're right on pace. I'm still not great at 5x5 either, but I've been practicing a bunch and am close to pulling down sub 3:00 averages. Cyoubx has a 5x5 video series that really helped me. After taking some of his pointers I went from 5:00+ to sub 4:00 in just a few days. Here's a link if you want to check it out. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEEXkFtTfXA.



Thanks. I will check those out. I got a new PB on 5x5 earlier of 5m 12s, so managed to shave a minute off my previous 6m 12s in a couple of days. I figure I used to practice 5x5 so rarely that I must have a lot of room for improvement. Would be really happy to be averaging sub-5m by the comp at beginning of April just so I have a good shot at registering a time for WCA.



earth2dan said:


> There are some big cube PLL algs you could look up that might make life easier for you, depending on what 3x3 algs you're using now. My approach was to practice slowly executing PLL's on 3x3 and paying close attention to how they work. Sometimes when we commit them to muscle memory we totally forget how to execute them slowly, which will kill you on big cubes. This can also help you recover from a botched PLL.



Makes sense for sure. I realise for example that on 4x4 and 5x5 my F-perm seems to go into a T-perm at the end. Will work on it. I've only timed myself on less than 50 solves so far and only know a couple of Parity algs off by heart.



Selkie said:


> Indeed I have a number of algs that I cannot perform on big cubes as the fast execution on 3x3 has burned into muscle and I just cannot repeat them slowly.



Yep, my TPS isn't particularly fast but with 3x3 I just look at something and know how to process it (with PLL at least.) I'd be really slow if I needed to explain how to perform a PLL to someone else via cubing notation without it written in front of me.


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## DELToS (Feb 24, 2016)

Does "older cuber" mean age wise, or how long you've been cubing? I've been cubing for 2 and a half years but I'm only 13


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## Jason Green (Feb 24, 2016)

DELToS said:


> Does "older cuber" mean age wise, or how long you've been cubing? I've been cubing for 2 and a half years but I'm only 13


It's referring to our age, a lot of us are over 40. But others are welcome to join in. Sometimes we get advice from younger cubers as well.


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## Logiqx (Feb 24, 2016)

Do you qualify for the over 40s ranking Andy (Shaky Hands)?

If so then let me know your year of birth and I'll add you to the list.

@Lid: I've added FMC averages. Can I have your year of birth as well?


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## Logiqx (Feb 24, 2016)

MarcelP said:


> sub 18 Ao50 in there,, That is pretty cool



First time ever!

I think I can probably call myself sub-19 now as my last 1000 timed solves average 18.8. Recent sessions have varied between high 17s and high 18s.

Two other cool things about the session... exactly half of the solves are sub-18 and the big averages are within 0.07 of your PBs.


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## Shaky Hands (Feb 24, 2016)

Logiqx said:


> Do you qualify for the over 40s ranking Andy (Shaky Hands)?



Thanks for the offer. Whilst I think it's fair to say I'm an old-ish cuber and would happily tell you pretty much anything in person at a comp, I do try to stay fairly age-anonymous on the internet. No offence intended.  Cheers.


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## Logiqx (Feb 24, 2016)

Ok. No worries.

Hopefully see you at a competition some time later this year.


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## SenorJuan (Feb 24, 2016)

I heard rumours that he gets a telegram from Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth next year.....and he used to take his lucky cube with him in his Spitfire on every mission he flew...


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## Shaky Hands (Feb 24, 2016)

Logiqx said:


> Ok. No worries.
> 
> Hopefully see you at a competition some time later this year.



Look forward to it. :tu


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## MarcelP (Feb 25, 2016)

Logiqx said:


> First time ever!
> 
> I think I can probably call myself sub-19 now as my last 1000 timed solves average 18.8. Recent sessions have varied between high 17s and high 18s.
> 
> Two other cool things about the session... exactly half of the solves are sub-18 and the big averages are within 0.07 of your PBs.



And I am way off my own PB's so that makes you quite a bit ahead of me on this moment. Time for me to catch up


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## Jason Green (Feb 25, 2016)

Thanks for the encouraging words on the school program. The teacher is waiting to hear from the principle. I will let everyone know how it goes. 

For my cubing excitement I finally graduated the race to sub 25 this week. I also got my first sub 3 min 4x4 solve.  Feel kinda silly with that since y'all are talking about sub 2 5x5. I'm really not practicing much still except 3x3, but 4x4 is fun and I'll do a few solves a night sometimes. 2x2 I'm around 12 seconds now, it's fun I'll be glad to compete in it. 

I get any algs messed up except two handed on 3x3! 4x4 I can't even tell if I have parity half the time, oh my!!


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## h2f (Feb 25, 2016)

I've finished with ao100 -20.83 (pb) but next 50 I was doing twice: 30 in the night and 20 just before in the morning.


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## MarcelP (Feb 25, 2016)

Jason Green said:


> Thanks for the encouraging words on the school program. The teacher is waiting to hear from the principle. I will let everyone know how it goes.
> 
> For my cubing excitement I finally graduated the race to sub 25 this week. I also got my first sub 3 min 4x4 solve.  Feel kinda silly with that since y'all are talking about sub 2 5x5. I'm really not practicing much still except 3x3, but 4x4 is fun and I'll do a few solves a night sometimes. 2x2 I'm around 12 seconds now, it's fun I'll be glad to compete in it.
> 
> I get any algs messed up except two handed on 3x3! 4x4 I can't even tell if I have parity half the time, oh my!!



I clearly remember struggling to get below 3 minutes on 4x4. I even had DNF's on competition for not reaching the 3 minute cutoff.  Now I am averaging 1:45 but do get the occasional +/- 1:30 average in the weekly contest. Currently I am doing more 4x4 solves than 3x3 just because I think it is fun. I do Hoya as method and I remember going from 3 minutes to 2 minutes average just by switching to Hoya. I think I need to do a few Yao practice sessions to see if I can become faster just by switching method again. I like the freedom of picking the best center pieces to start with in Hoya, but I think it is not gving me a lot of advantage (time wise).



h2f said:


> I've finished with ao100 -20.83 (pb) but next 50 I was doing twice: 30 in the night and 20 just before in the morning.



Cool! I try to make a Ao100 this evening or tomorow morning to see where I stand these days.


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## Selkie (Feb 25, 2016)

Heard a lot of good things about Hoya. Was chatting online to another UK cuber last month and he nearly gave up solving then took up Hoya on 5x5, think he averages ~1:50 now. I am not sure it would improve my 4x4 times by much ~1:10 average but it stands a good chance of improving my 5x5 where I use reduction.

Been using Yau on 4x4 for 4? years and very quickly got to sub 1:20 with it. Perhaps I should start trying to adopt max tps on all puzzles to see if there are improvements to be had


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## MarcelP (Feb 25, 2016)

Selkie said:


> Heard a lot of good things about Hoya. Was chatting online to another UK cuber last month and he nearly gave up solving then took up Hoya on 5x5, think he averages ~1:50 now. I am not sure it would improve my 4x4 times by much ~1:10 average but it stands a good chance of improving my 5x5 where I use reduction.
> 
> Been using Yau on 4x4 for 4? years and very quickly got to sub 1:20 with it. Perhaps I should start trying to adopt max tps on all puzzles to see if there are improvements to be had


Well, since you are very good at looking ahead I really must advise Hoya to you. You start at making four centers. Starting any color but your top color. You solve green cross right? Let's say you start with yellow, then white, then green and red as last. That leaves your top (blue) and front orange (f face) centers unsolved. Now you can use R and R2 and U and D to create green edge pairs. And this part of the solve with good look ahead you can follow easily where everything is at and have pauze-less solving. When cross is in place, you still have an unsolved orange and blue center. Now you make a F move to put the fixed cross edges aside, and fix last two centers with R U (and R2 U2) and undo the F with an F' to restore cross. Now you can go further as in Yao with 3-2-2 (or whatever).


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## mafergut (Feb 25, 2016)

earth2dan said:


> Nice. My 4x4 times were around 2:15 when I started breaking sub-30 on 3x3 so I'd say you're right on pace. I'm still not great at 5x5 either, but I've been practicing a bunch and am close to pulling down sub 3:00 averages. Cyoubx has a 5x5 video series that really helped me. After taking some of his pointers I went from 5:00+ to sub 4:00 in just a few days. Here's a link if you want to check it out. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEEXkFtTfXA.
> 
> There are some big cube PLL algs you could look up that might make life easier for you, depending on what 3x3 algs you're using now. My approach was to practice slowly executing PLL's on 3x3 and paying close attention to how they work. Sometimes when we commit them to muscle memory we totally forget how to execute them slowly, which will kill you on big cubes. This can also help you recover from a botched PLL.



I have been so focused in 3x3 at the beginning of my "cubing career"  that now I'm so slow at big cubes in comparison. I'm still around 2:10 with Yau at 4x4 and I just started solving 5x5 like 3 weeks ago and have solved it probably no more than 20 times. My 5x5 times are still around 5 minutes so I definitely plan on checking that video series and see if I can get to sub 4 as you say.

Regarding botching PLLs what I have the most problem with is OLL and, in fact, I revert to 2L OLL in like half the cases as I am not confident that I will be able to do the 1L alg without messing up the cube. Of course, there are some PLLs that give me some problems as well but not as many. That's because I had to re-learn more slowly my PLLs for OH recently, meanwhile I have not relearnt most of my OLLs (I also revert to 2L OLL in OH for a lot of cases).

_Mega sub-5 Ao12 race: Did the 1st 3 scrambles of this WC and have gotten down my Ao5 to sub-5 for the 1st time (Ao5 = 4:51.65). Last 4 solves all sub-5 so, race becomes interesting now...
_


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## muchacho (Feb 25, 2016)

Megaminx PBs:

Single: 5:01
Ao12: 5:53

Not looking good for me.


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## mafergut (Feb 25, 2016)

muchacho said:


> Megaminx PBs:
> 
> Single: 5:01
> Ao12: 5:53
> ...



Finished the other 2 solves for the WC, also sub-5. Running Ao12 = 5:05.67, so close... I think with the next 5 solves I can bring the Ao12 to sub-5 but that will have to wait until next Tuesday at least. I will give you some room to catch up and will practise some 5x5 and 4x4


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## earth2dan (Feb 25, 2016)

Selkie said:


> Heard a lot of good things about Hoya. Was chatting online to another UK cuber last month and he nearly gave up solving then took up Hoya on 5x5, think he averages ~1:50 now. I am not sure it would improve my 4x4 times by much ~1:10 average but it stands a good chance of improving my 5x5 where I use reduction.


I just started breaking down the 3:00 wall on 5x5 using reduction. I wonder if adopting Hoya could improve on that... I tried Hoya for 4x4 a while back, but I think I'm married to the Yao method.



mafergut said:


> My 5x5 times are still around 5 minutes so I definitely plan on checking that video series and see if I can get to sub 4 as you say.
> 
> Regarding botching PLLs what I have the most problem with is OLL and, in fact, I revert to 2L OLL in like half the cases as I am not confident that I will be able to do the 1L alg without messing up the cube.


For 5x5, if you're anything like me, edge pairing used to take forever. If you're not using the free-slicing method yet, I recommend you look that up. I also always solve white/yellow edges first. That might not be good advice, but it made a big difference for me. I can find white/yellow edges fastest, and it makes it easy to look ahead and keep track of the first 8 edges.

I only know about half my OLL's anyway so I still 2-look a lot even when solving 3x3 :/ and a couple of the OLL algs I know use slices, which just doesn't translate well to 5x5 (for me anyway). I wouldn't worry too much about 2-looking your OLL on big cubes. Better center and edge building is where you'll make up the most time.


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## earth2dan (Feb 25, 2016)

3BLD update...

I'm starting to get the hang of M2. Still haven't had a successful solve yet, but it's coming together. The UF/DB and FU/BD edge targets are still messing me up. I know I have to swap algs on even targets, but I keep forgetting which alg is which to swap it :/

I had an extra AoLong that I hadn't set up or restickered yet, so I took a sharpie and wrote all my letters on it to help with memorization (I know that's cheating, but it's helping me learn my letter scheme)

I really struggle when I run into more than 1 cycle during memorization too.

I'm sure I'll sort out the bugs with more practice... Looking forward to that first successful blind solve


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## mafergut (Feb 25, 2016)

earth2dan said:


> I just started breaking down the 3:00 wall on 5x5 using reduction. I wonder if adopting Hoya could improve on that... I tried Hoya for 4x4 a while back, but I think I'm married to the Yao method.
> 
> 
> For 5x5, if you're anything like me, edge pairing used to take forever. If you're not using the free-slicing method yet, I recommend you look that up. I also always solve white/yellow edges first. That might not be good advice, but it made a big difference for me. I can find white/yellow edges fastest, and it makes it easy to look ahead and keep track of the first 8 edges.
> ...



Thanks for the feedback. What have brought me from "forever" to 5 minutes is basically starting to get the hang of freeslicing for the 1st 8 edges and also solving the white edges first and leaving them tucked down as a cross, if possible. What still takes me a lot of time is centers, which I expect to improve at with just more practice, and the last 4 edges, which I might need some tutorial to speed up a bit.

And good luck with your 3BLD. I have not had the chance to watch any M2 tutorial yet but I might steal your idea (I think also Selkie showed a photo of that some time ago) to "annotate" a cube with Spefz letter scheme.


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## newtonbase (Feb 25, 2016)

I still have labels on my old Zhanchi from when I learned Speffz. It helped a lot.


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## muchacho (Feb 25, 2016)

I also labelled a cube with my lettering scheme (only for edges and not Speffz), it definitely helped.


_10014 3x3 solves in Prisma Puzzle Timer, I'll try to make a graph._


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## h2f (Feb 25, 2016)

I dont think writing letters on stickers is a good idea because it doesnt force mind to learn letter scheme. I've never done it. Maskow said in his tutorial he never did it. Etc. Noah Arthurs never mentioned that tricked but he told about something better - assamble the cube take a piece (edge or corner) and name letters of edge or corner you took. But maybe I'm wrond and its good idea...


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## muchacho (Feb 25, 2016)

The times of my first 10000 solves in Prisma Puzzle Timer in a graph:

View attachment 5924
View attachment 5923


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## newtonbase (Feb 25, 2016)

I didn't do my solves with that cube. I just kept it nearby for reference. With Speffz you could just liable the first sticker of each face so you think about it a bit more.


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## Jason Green (Feb 25, 2016)

muchacho said:


> The times of my first 10000 solves in Prisma Puzzle Timer in a graph:



Maybe I should check out prisma. I lost all my solves when I cleared out cstimer somehow. Also my phone app corrupted the db on there. *sigh*


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## newtonbase (Feb 25, 2016)

L' F R B' R2 U' L' D' R L' F U2 L2 U2 F D2 F2 D2 B U2 D2 

I don't know my 3BLD PB but the 2:39 I got on this is certainly one of my best. It's a simple one so I'd like to see what some of you could get with it.


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## h2f (Feb 25, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> I didn't do my solves with that cube. I just kept it nearby for reference. With Speffz you could just liable the first sticker of each face so you think about it a bit more.



 I'm not an expert. Just saying. If it helpes you, it's fine. 



newtonbase said:


> L' F R B' R2 U' L' D' R L' F U2 L2 U2 F D2 F2 D2 B U2 D2
> 
> I don't know my 3BLD PB but the 2:39 I got on this is certainly one of my best. It's a simple one so I'd like to see what some of you could get with it.




Good solves always makes one happy?  Congrats... 

I've started filming my solves of the other puzzles. Skewb ao5: 10.7. Not my best and I'm not best solver as you can see. I've just started 3rd ao100 since beginning of the january when I've learnt sarah's advanced....


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## Shaky Hands (Feb 25, 2016)

earth2dan said:


> I just started breaking down the 3:00 wall on 5x5 using reduction. I wonder if adopting Hoya could improve on that... I tried Hoya for 4x4 a while back, but I think I'm married to the Yao method.
> 
> 
> For 5x5, if you're anything like me, edge pairing used to take forever. If you're not using the free-slicing method yet, I recommend you look that up. I also always solve white/yellow edges first. That might not be good advice, but it made a big difference for me. I can find white/yellow edges fastest, and it makes it easy to look ahead and keep track of the first 8 edges.



Learned this today for 5x5. Found it surprisingly easy to learn considering how I find it confusing on 4x4. Times should improve for me as a result although that hasn't happened immediately (not that I was expecting it to.)



Jason Green said:


> Maybe I should check out prisma. I lost all my solves when I cleared out cstimer somehow. Also my phone app corrupted the db on there. *sigh*



I keep mine on a spreadsheet. I've got separate ones for 3x3, 4x4 and 5x5. I keep track of Ao5, Ao12, Ao25 and Ao100 in there. I also break it down for every 100 solves to see what my best of each of these was. I used to track Ao250 too but gave up on it as it was a bit too memory-hungry!

I find that by having a lot of things to measure improvement against, it's a good motivator for me.


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## Jason Green (Feb 25, 2016)

I don't not want to get to tied into tracking my stats. I have pack rat tendencies and I can get too consumed with keeping everything perfect and worry about ever losing it. When my wife and I got married I had a file cabinet that I think had every paper bill I had received since college (old gas bills, phone bills, etc). To compensate for this tendency I try to keep very little, life is less stressful for me that way. 

It is tempting though. [emoji12]


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## ryuusei86 (Feb 26, 2016)

Just wanted to check in and thank several of you for the 4x4 parity fix without cube rotations (works great, though of course on my first 4x4 solve afterwards I did not encounter parity). I'm still working on the Roux method too. I'm learning that almost-but-not-quite-solved 3x3s using this method are particularly obnoxious. Everything solved except the four edge pieces on top are in the wrong spots. Everything solved except four CENTERS (which I just discovered and is equivalent). I'll keep watching the videos.

Tomorrow I'm expecting a Cubicle shipment, which will beat the other three shipments from China even though I placed that order last. Maybe it serves me right. I think it will contain three budget 3x3s. Three other more expensive ones will come later. I eventually plan to rank them all in terms of how good (or gross) they feel to a beginner. That doesn't include the GuoGuan YueXiao and two or three others that I know I really must try.

I also want to add that I have carefully picked out Megaminx sticker colors at the Cubicle website.

I do not own a Megaminx.

I'll um ... see myself out now.


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## MarcelP (Feb 26, 2016)

Today I did an early bird session 3x3 before work. Ao50 with 19.89. Bad lights do not help a lot when you want a good average.. But in there I had a nice streak:

21. 16.11 L2 R2 B' F' D L U2 D2 B U F' L2 F' R2 L2 B2 L U' R2 L D' U L2 F2 D 
22. 16.87 B2 R2 B2 U2 R B2 R' U2 B U F2 B R' F' D' R2 B R' B2 R2 F2 L B2 D2 F' 
23. 16.27 B R D2 L U2 F B R2 F' R' B' U2 F' B2 R2 L D' B' R2 L' D L U R2 L 
24. 17.16 B' F U2 B2 D2 R' U2 D' R F2 B' L U2 R B D2 F2 B R' F U' R F2 D' U' 
25. 15.61 U' D F2 R2 F U' F2 B2 U R2 F R2 D2 L2 B L U L2 F L2 R2 F R' L F' 

I wish that would happen more often.

And a nice full step:

32. 13.22 D2 U2 L F B2 L2 F' B2 L2 R' B' D B D' B' R' U' F' R2 L' U R2 D L2 D2


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## Selkie (Feb 26, 2016)

MarcelP said:


> You solve green cross right? ......... Now you can go further as in Yao with 3-2-2 (or whatever).



I solve blue. Love the sound of this and the fact that after the 4 centers you have fewer hidden pieces. Bit close to comp in April to try this now but I will definitely have a go post comp, Thanks Marcel :tu



earth2dan said:


> I just started breaking down the 3:00 wall on 5x5 using reduction. I wonder if adopting Hoya could improve on that... I tried Hoya for 4x4 a while back, but I think I'm married to the Yao method.
> 
> 
> For 5x5, if you're anything like me, edge pairing used to take forever. If you're not using the free-slicing method yet, I recommend you look that up. I also always solve white/yellow edges first. That might not be good advice, but it made a big difference for me. I can find white/yellow edges fastest, and it makes it easy to look ahead and keep track of the first 8 edges..



Yes I doubt I will change 4x4 from Yau. At 46 and having used Yau for 4/5 years I think I may never get back to current times. 



mafergut said:


> ... and also solving the white edges first and leaving them tucked down as a cross, if possible...



Very similar to me, I start with the four blue edges first but this is not a hard rule so if I spot two connected dredges and can see the third I might do this then go back to blue. It may sound strange but I also started counting solved edges in my head so I knew when I was getting close to 8. For some reason worked for me and may be worth a try 



h2f said:


> I dont think writing letters on stickers is a good idea because it doesnt force mind to learn letter scheme. I've never done it. Maskow said in his tutorial he never did it. Etc. Noah Arthurs never mentioned that tricked but he told about something better - assamble the cube take a piece (edge or corner) and name letters of edge or corner you took. But maybe I'm wrond and its good idea...



I think this is where I have been going wrong. I labelled up a cube a few years ago for attempts and again about a month ago. I agree have one not labelled gets your brain into the correct pattern and makes your thought process more like when you will solve without them on. That said, I could be talking rubbish. Not like I have a success since 4 years ago!



muchacho said:


> The times of my first 10000 solves in Prisma Puzzle Timer in a graph:





Jason Green said:


> Maybe I should check out prisma. I lost all my solves when I cleared out cstimer somehow. Also my phone app corrupted the db on there. *sigh*



There used to be a version of qqtimer (web timer) that I use that used to save history, Think it was by Kungfoomanchu (the guy behind BigCubes) but it long longer exists. Would love another timer to save history but for me would have to be web again.



h2f said:


> I've started filming my solves of the other puzzles. Skewb ao5: 10.7. Not my best and I'm not best solver as you can see. [/url]



Wow, great stuff. Started learning Sarah's beginner method last week but have not finished. Need to press on as I have registered Skewb in comp in a month  Really nice times there 



ryuusei86 said:


> Tomorrow I'm expecting a Cubicle shipment, which will beat the other three shipments from China even though I placed that order last.



Cannot wait for my large ($200) Cubicle shipmemt. They havent even shipped it yet as it includes one of their Premium 3x3s. Really looking forward to trying that as I used to buy premium 3x3s from Lubix. A Lubix Zhanchi was my main for over 3 years.



MarcelP said:


> But in there I had a nice streak:



Nice to see you back in regular practice after attaining sub 20 Marcel and can see some great improvement. Love your turning style when I watch your videos and see great improvement to your lookahead. have you ever set a 'life goal' for 3x3, or was it sub 20?


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## h2f (Feb 26, 2016)

@Marcel - very nice. On cam this fullstep?

@John, Thank you. My stackmated ao100 is around 14 at the moment but I've finished learning sarah's adv this week - I sucked in few cases. BTW stackmated solves with skewb seem to me easier than with computer timer. At tomorrow's comp cutoff is 16 - I hope I can do this if I get quite easy scramble with 2gen second layer.


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## mafergut (Feb 26, 2016)

Selkie said:


> Very similar to me, I start with the four blue edges first but this is not a hard rule so if I spot two connected dredges [...]
> 
> Wow, great stuff. Started learning Sarah's beginner method last week but have not finished. Need to press on as I have registered Skewb in comp in a month  Really nice times there
> 
> ...



Good to know that somebody with much more experience than me at big cubes is doing things more or less the same with 5x5. I will keep pushing for better times.

I didn't think I was going to like skewb but I was wrong. Same with Pyra. Both require a very different turning style to NxN cubes and I like that for a change once in a while. I'm practising so many new events, though, that I have not been able to improve much at any of them.

I also can't wait to receive my order with SS Gigaminx, Yuexiao and Tornado. 

I don't know about Marcel, but my "life goal" for 3x3 is sub-15 and I'm starting to doubt I'll ever achieve it but I'm not gonna stop trying. I have another goal too: to go to a comp some day and get an official average different from DNF


----------



## MarcelP (Feb 26, 2016)

Selkie said:


> Nice to see you back in regular practice after attaining sub 20 Marcel and can see some great improvement. Love your turning style when I watch your videos and see great improvement to your lookahead. have you ever set a 'life goal' for 3x3, or was it sub 20?



Thanks! No not really. But I have a colleage Guus Razoux (https://www.worldcubeassociation.org/results/p.php?i=1982RAZO01) who was at the first world competition in 1982 and was 2nd. If I ever become as fast as him I am happy 



h2f said:


> @Marcel - very nice. On cam this fullstep?



Unfortunatly not  Maybe in my evening session.


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## muchacho (Feb 26, 2016)

mafergut said:


> I don't know about Marcel, but my "life goal" for 3x3 is sub-15


Mine is being sub-13 (Guilles Roux's official PB average), but I am surely too ambitious, sub-15 would be also fine 

I've counted the number of sub-20 solves I've got on 3x3:
50 19.x
19 18.x
6 17.x
1 16.x


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## Logiqx (Feb 26, 2016)

mafergut said:


> I don't know about Marcel, but my "life goal" for 3x3 is sub-15 and I'm starting to doubt I'll ever achieve it but I'm not gonna stop trying. I have another goal too: to go to a comp some day and get an official average different from DNF



That's kinda what I have in mind as well. I've had a few "life goals" for 3x3 - 2:00, 1:00, 0:30 and 0:20 being the notable successes to date.

sub-0:15 is a nice round number for global average / official average but if I ever get there, I'm sure I'll be trying to shave a bit more off my times!

Progress over the past couple of months has felt pretty good thanks to my practice time whilst commuting. It's the only good thing about the long train journeys to / from work!

Right now I'm focused on breaking sub-18. Hopefully I'll get there before my next competition...


----------



## Selkie (Feb 26, 2016)

Great to see so many with clear goals, it is one of the keys to improvement. Mine, since started speed cubing 6 years ago was to be sub 15 globally as in Ao100's sub 15 and though at times I have felt it just wasn't attainable for me I am going through a phase where I feel it just might be.

I have a more recent one these days since I have been seeing improvement and that is to get an average on film faster than Ron van Bruchem's fastest in comp. That is going to be some tall order but within a second of it. Ron has always been my biggest inspiration but we will have to wait and see whether I can make it.

Speaking of averages as mentioned before I have been trying to push TPS all out. I have having to do it in short burns as I cannot even maintain an AO50 but have another sub 14 Ao5 on film which I will post later:-

Average of 5: 13.90
1. (13.03) R2 L' U' F U2 D2 L' B2 L B D2 B2 U' F2 L2 D' F2 U R2 D F2 
2. (14.59) U R2 B2 F2 D R2 B2 R2 D2 F2 U2 L' D B' R2 U F' L D F L 
3. 14.32 D2 B2 D2 L2 D2 B D2 B' F R2 F L B L2 U2 R B' D' U' L' U2 
4. 14.03 R2 U2 B2 R2 B' F2 L2 R2 U2 L2 F R D' R2 U2 L' F L2 U2 L2 B2 
5. 13.34 L2 B' D L' U R2 L2 B U' F R' U2 L F2 B2 R2 F2 L U2 D2 R 

All fullstep and pleased with the consistency with a standard deviation of only 0.50


Edit: Video as promised:-


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## Selkie (Feb 26, 2016)

Logiqx said:


> Progress over the past couple of months has felt pretty good thanks to my practice time whilst commuting. It's the only good thing about the long train journeys to / from work!



I tried this yesterday following your advice. Had a two hour meeting in London with a three hour train journey each way. Spent the journey up doing some exploratory untimed solves and learned a couple of WV cases. Time well spent. The Gans 356 v1 is certainly quiet enough to not draw too much attention but it seemed to anyway. Probably looked quite surreal a man fully suited cubing


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## mafergut (Feb 26, 2016)

Logiqx said:


> That's kinda what I have in mind as well. I've had a few "life goals" for 3x3 - 2:00, 1:00, 0:30 and 0:20 being the notable successes to date.
> 
> sub-0:15 is a nice round number for global average / official average but if I ever get there, I'm sure I'll be trying to shave a bit more off my times!
> 
> ...



I would be happy to get there (sub-15) even if just for a short time and that's it, no plans of sub-12 or anything like that. The reason I doubt it is because it might take so long that old age will kick in and compensate the added skill with slower mind and body. If it's just sub-16 I will have to live with that  But I have been stuck around barely sub-20 for so long already that I have even started to doubt that I will ever improve any more.


----------



## Shaky Hands (Feb 26, 2016)

Logiqx said:


> Progress over the past couple of months has felt pretty good thanks to my practice time whilst commuting. It's the only good thing about the long train journeys to / from work!



I cube a bit while commuting too. But my commute is a 75 minute walk each way, so solves frequently get interrupted to cross the road!



Selkie said:


> Great to see so many with clear goals, it is one of the keys to improvement. Mine, since started speed cubing 6 years ago was to be sub 15 globally as in Ao100's sub 15 and though at times I have felt it just wasn't attainable for me I am going through a phase where I feel it just might be.



I'm aiming for sub-25, sub-90 and sub-150 for 3x3, 4x4 and 5x5 respectively by the end of the year. Will be interesting to revisit in 10 months' time and see how I did. Also hoping to get to sub-30 on 3x3 with dual-CN.



Selkie said:


> Average of 5: 13.90
> 1. (13.03) R2 L' U' F U2 D2 L' B2 L B D2 B2 U' F2 L2 D' F2 U R2 D F2
> 2. (14.59) U R2 B2 F2 D R2 B2 R2 D2 F2 U2 L' D B' R2 U F' L D F L
> 3. 14.32 D2 B2 D2 L2 D2 B D2 B' F R2 F L B L2 U2 R B' D' U' L' U2
> ...



This is great stuff. Congratulations.

The more I look at other people's solves I think my weakest step is just doing the Cross. Despite knowing very little of Full OLL and doing F2L without more than a handful of algorithms, my Cross is really awkward and I need to make it far more efficient.


----------



## muchacho (Feb 26, 2016)

Nice solves Selkie!


_Sub-5 ao12 Mega race:
Single: 4:25 (and also a 4:50)
Ao5: 5:08
Ao12: 5:29

I'm feeling less pessimistic today_


----------



## Logiqx (Feb 26, 2016)

Shaky Hands said:


> I cube a bit while commuting too. But my commute is a 75 minute walk each way, so solves frequently get interrupted to cross the road!
> 
> I'm aiming for sub-25, sub-90 and sub-150 for 3x3, 4x4 and 5x5 respectively by the end of the year. Will be interesting to revisit in 10 months' time and see how I did. Also hoping to get to sub-30 on 3x3 with dual-CN.



I guess at this time of year you're more "Cold Hands" than "Shaky Hands". 

You might find my thread interesting which compares times in different events:

https://www.speedsolving.com/forum/showthread.php?47405-Relative-Solve-Times-for-2x2x2-7x7x7

All-rounders seem to take around 4 times longer to solve the 4x4 compared to 3x3. Roughly speaking 5x5 times are about double the 4x4 times.

There are exceptions of course and Mike (DeCock) is one of them with an official 4x4 average which is just 3.3 times his 3x3 average.



Selkie said:


> Edit: Video as promised:-
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XGIE4CQ4NYU



Nice and there is still room for improvement.


----------



## mafergut (Feb 26, 2016)

muchacho said:


> Nice solves Selkie!
> 
> 
> _Sub-5 ao12 Mega race:
> ...



Nice solves indeed!!! Those would be a bit better than my best 5 times in a very good Ao100 or maybe Ao250 but all condensed in an Ao5. Great job!

In the Mega race you have good reason to be optimistic. You are right now almost on par with my times. By next Tuesday you will have won already.



Logiqx said:


> You might find my thread interesting which compares times in different events:
> 
> https://www.speedsolving.com/forum/showthread.php?47405-Relative-Solve-Times-for-2x2x2-7x7x7
> 
> All-rounders seem to take around 4 times longer to solve the 4x4 compared to 3x3. Roughly speaking 5x5 times are about double the 4x4 times.



I hope I can reach my potential of 1:20 at 4x4 and 2:40 at 5x5. So far from those times right now...


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## Selkie (Feb 26, 2016)

Logiqx said:


> All-rounders seem to take around 4 times longer to solve the 4x4 compared to 3x3. Roughly speaking 5x5 times are about double the 4x4 times.



Nice analysis and I guess I am about right for all rounder. 3x3 average ~16s. That x 4 = 1m 4s. I actually average just sub 1:10 for 4x4. My 5x5 is about 2:20.


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## Shaky Hands (Feb 26, 2016)

Logiqx said:


> I guess at this time of year you're more "Cold Hands" than "Shaky Hands".







Logiqx said:


> You might find my thread interesting which compares times in different events:
> 
> https://www.speedsolving.com/forum/showthread.php?47405-Relative-Solve-Times-for-2x2x2-7x7x7
> 
> All-rounders seem to take around 4 times longer to solve the 4x4 compared to 3x3. Roughly speaking 5x5 times are about double the 4x4 times.



Thanks. Yes that is interesting. My aims for 4x4 and 5x5 may be too high for me then but am trying to aim for the UK average cutoffs for 4x4 and 5x5, even if times longer than that were enough to reach the finals of the 2003 and 2005 World Championships!


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## Selkie (Feb 26, 2016)

Shaky Hands said:


> Thanks. Yes that is interesting. My aims for 4x4 and 5x5 may be too high for me then but am trying to aim for the UK average cutoffs for 4x4 and 5x5



Yes, unfortunately the cutoffs in UK are quite severe and need to be given the skill level of the average cuber at comp. It may well be the same in other countries but we have an amazing level of ability on average. The average cutoff for 4x4 has been 1:30 and for 5x5 been 2:30 for the last five years. I think it is a good goal to be sub cutoff


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## mafergut (Feb 26, 2016)

Nice sub-19 Ao50 today with my Moyu Tanglong (18.90) trying to lookahead and not spoil any solves so, no super-fast solves but 80% sub-20. I will try to roll it tomorrow and see if I can beat my PB from like 5 months ago.


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## mark49152 (Feb 26, 2016)

Selkie said:


> Probably looked quite surreal a man fully suited cubing


Haha yeah. I learned a few comms on a flight back from the US last week and as we were preparing to land, the flight attendant congratulated me on solving the cube. I joked that it only took me 8 hours, and no prizes for guessing what the reply was to that...?!


----------



## mafergut (Feb 26, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> Haha yeah. I learned a few comms on a flight back from the US last week and as we were preparing to land, the flight attendant congratulated me on solving the cube. I joked that it only took me 8 hours, and no prizes for guessing what the reply was to that...?!



Did she ask for your mobile phone number?


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## newtonbase (Feb 26, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> Haha yeah. I learned a few comms on a flight back from the US last week and as we were preparing to land, the flight attendant congratulated me on solving the cube. I joked that it only took me 8 hours, and no prizes for guessing what the reply was to that...?!



"I couldn't do it in 8 years"?


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## Shaky Hands (Feb 27, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> Haha yeah. I learned a few comms on a flight back from the US last week and as we were preparing to land, the flight attendant congratulated me on solving the cube. I joked that it only took me 8 hours, and no prizes for guessing what the reply was to that...?!



"Actually, it took you 13 hours because of the time difference." ?


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## mark49152 (Feb 27, 2016)

Haha, good guesses but no, it was... drum roll... "I'd just peel the stickers off!" 

And no he didn't ask for my phone number


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## Isaac Lai (Feb 27, 2016)

Selkie said:


> Yes, unfortunately the cutoffs in UK are quite severe and need to be given the skill level of the average cuber at comp. It may well be the same in other countries but we have an amazing level of ability on average. The average cutoff for 4x4 has been 1:30 and for 5x5 been 2:30 for the last five years. I think it is a good goal to be sub cutoff



At a recent comp that I went to, the 4x4 cutoff was 1:10 and the 5x5 cutoff was *1:50* lol


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## mark49152 (Feb 27, 2016)

Selkie said:


> The average cutoff for 4x4 has been 1:30 and for 5x5 been 2:30 for the last five years (in UK). I think it is a good goal to be sub cutoff


Yeah I agree. At first I found it frustrating but when I accepted it as a challenge, I actually really enjoyed working to beat the cutoff and when I did, it was a great feeling. It's nice to have a goal that carries a real reward as opposed to an arbitrary time goal.


----------



## mafergut (Feb 27, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> Haha, good guesses but no, it was... drum roll... "I'd just peel the stickers off!"
> 
> And no he didn't ask for my phone number



So, the flight attendant was a "he"... flying is not any more what it used to be  Just kidding, of course.


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## Selkie (Feb 27, 2016)

mafergut said:


> Nice sub-19 Ao50 today with my Moyu Tanglong (18.90) trying to lookahead and not spoil any solves so, no super-fast solves but 80% sub-20. I will try to roll it tomorrow and see if I can beat my PB from like 5 months ago.



Nice average sir  .. Cannot think why but I haven't ordered a Tanglong as I have been a fan of Moyu for a long time and have had Aolong and Hualong as mains. How does it compare to other Moyus?



mark49152 said:


> Haha yeah. I learned a few comms on a flight back from the US last week and as we were preparing to land, the flight attendant congratulated me on solving the cube. I joked that it only took me 8 hours, and no prizes for guessing what the reply was to that...?!



Hopefully she didn't spot only 3 corners at a time?! hehe



Isaac Lai said:


> At a recent comp that I went to, the 4x4 cutoff was 1:10 and the 5x5 cutoff was *1:50* lol



Wow, those are aggressive cutoffs. That 5x5 cut is sub my PB but I would hope to make that 4x4 cutoff ... just as I am just sub 1:10 average.



mark49152 said:


> Yeah I agree. At first I found it frustrating but when I accepted it as a challenge, I actually really enjoyed working to beat the cutoff and when I did, it was a great feeling. It's nice to have a goal that carries a real reward as opposed to an arbitrary time goal.



I could not agree more Mark, A lot more reward than "Oh I made x time". I only just made average cutoff for 5x5 last comp but my average was still >2:30. Hoping for sub 2:20 this time. You 5x5 times look great, will have to watch your solves in Exeter :tu


As a complete side point a friend is making a Rubik's badge to replace the one on the back of my VW Bus, what do you think?


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## midwatchcowboy (Feb 27, 2016)

49yo here. Hadn't picked up a cube since maybe 1983? Had solve the original Rubik's Cube by feel. No algorithms. Wife bought my son a new Rubik's at Target. He got frustrated. I found out about CFOP solve techniques via youtube and have a new Moyu HuaLong and am sub 3 min with a few simple algorithms. Hope to add more to the bag of tricks.


----------



## muchacho (Feb 27, 2016)

Welcome, and congrats, first time I touched one was around 1985, last time I touched one (until last year) was a few weeks later, nowhere close of solving it (if it came with instructions I don't remember them)... well, I cheated of course.


----------



## h2f (Feb 27, 2016)

http://m.cubecomps.com/competitions/1392/competitors/36

patataj patataj patataj


----------



## Jason Green (Feb 27, 2016)

Yes welcome. If you start practicing your times will plummet!

I can keep up with reading this thread but I never have time to reply as much as I'd like. I think I'll just start every post with "Awesome job everyone"[emoji14]
I like the bumper sticker. It's different and kind of Escheresque. I want to get some t-shirts but I'm hoping my brother will design some for me, he's good at stuff like that. 

I've taken more interest in being color neutral than before. Partly to enter the race to sub 30 as yellow cross only, which I think will not be too bad. I'm fairly close to it now, and actually had an ao5 under 25 with yellow yesterday. Full CN is maybe not as far as I imagined. I tried a few solves yesterday and was around 1 min. F2L feels like when I started speed cubing.  Marcel, I'm sure I'll have a lucky 59 soon as CN.


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## Selkie (Feb 27, 2016)

midwatchcowboy said:


> 49yo here. Hadn't picked up a cube since maybe 1983? Had solve the original Rubik's Cube by feel. No algorithms. Wife bought my son a new Rubik's at Target. He got frustrated. I found out about CFOP solve techniques via youtube and have a new Moyu HuaLong and am sub 3 min with a few simple algorithms. Hope to add more to the bag of tricks.



Welcome to the thread and welcome back to cubing. I was in a similar position where I could still solve from the early 80' and my wife bought me a cube as a nostalgic gift 6 years ago. That started my passion.

Have to say this thread is great and a real motivation for us older cubers. Look forward to seeing how you progress :tu


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## mafergut (Feb 27, 2016)

Selkie said:


> Nice average sir  .. Cannot think why but I haven't ordered a Tanglong as I have been a fan of Moyu for a long time and have had Aolong and Hualong as mains. How does it compare to other Moyus?
> 
> As a complete side point a friend is making a Rubik's badge to replace the one on the back of my VW Bus, what do you think?



Thank you! I rolled it to Ao100 today... and then some  Got it down to 18.51 Ao50 and 18.65 Ao100, both of them PBs.

Getting to like my Tanglong more and more as it breaks in. Out of the box it was a bit catchy but it is becoming better and better with each solve. It does not compare easily to other Moyus, this and the Hualong are, for me, the most distinct cubes Moyu has build recently. It is kind of slow but very stable and smooth and it retains the cubic shape when solving, which I love. Corner cutting up to reasonable amounts is almost effortless and, except when trying to reverse cut just in the line-to-line point it will either cut reverse or forward without any problems. I started using it for OH, replacing my Hualong because of its stability but after this long session it might replace my YJ Chilong, as it is equally stable but a bit more smooths and forgiving when not accurate. For me it's a must in any collection but it might not be better than your Gans 356 so it's up to you ;-) It has the pointy corner design and it was never corner twisted on me.



midwatchcowboy said:


> 49yo here. Hadn't picked up a cube since maybe 1983? Had solve the original Rubik's Cube by feel. No algorithms. Wife bought my son a new Rubik's at Target. He got frustrated. I found out about CFOP solve techniques via youtube and have a new Moyu HuaLong and am sub 3 min with a few simple algorithms. Hope to add more to the bag of tricks.



Welcome to this thread! You will feel at home here among a lot of over 40yo people (I'm 45 myself, soon 46). You can count on us all to: 1) help motivate you to get those times from 3 min to sub-30 seconds at least; b) increase your cube collection from a couple to several dozens; c) introduce you to other events like BLD, Pyra, Mega, Skewb, big cubes...  Just wait and see, wait and see...


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## muchacho (Feb 27, 2016)

h2f said:


> http://m.cubecomps.com/competitions/1392/competitors/36
> 
> patataj patataj patataj



Congrats, good PBs there! How were the BLD attempts?


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## h2f (Feb 27, 2016)

In 3bld DNFs where 1:26 and 1:13 off by wrong corner comm. Im happy

patataj patataj patataj


----------



## muchacho (Feb 27, 2016)

h2f said:


> In 3bld DNFs where 1:26 and 1:13 off by wrong corner comm. Im happy


Nice, you are close to getting some serious times in 3BLD.


_Megaminx race to sub-5 ao12... not improving much, in fact mo6 from today is worse than yesterday's by 20 seconds (ao12 PB: 5:27)_


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## mafergut (Feb 27, 2016)

h2f said:


> http://m.cubecomps.com/competitions/1392/competitors/36
> 
> patataj patataj patataj



Wow! Nice times, specially in 3x3 and skewb, and also a nice OH single! And nice 3BLD times, a pity that one of those two last attempts were not fully correct as the times were so good. I assume that you maybe forced a bit after the 1st "safe" success?



muchacho said:


> _Megaminx race to sub-5 ao12... not improving much, in fact mo6 from today is worse than yesterday's by 20 seconds (ao12 PB: 5:27)_



Have you learned some algs for LL this week? I still find it so tedious with my current method... Anyway, you still have plenty of time and, also, this can happen to me as well. I did my 6th solve of the week apart from WC and it was not good either (well over 5 minutes).

But after doing like 200 3x3 solves this weekend I'm now improving 4x4 and 5x5 with the WC scrambles. It was like 1 month ago that I had last done a long 3x3 session and it looks like it is paying off, and not only at 3x3


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## muchacho (Feb 27, 2016)

No, I looked at it but it was too late for learning anything useful for LL, but probably for the race to sub-4 (in a few months, and I'll learn how to make pairs). Tomorrow I should be doing most solves really close to 5 minutes (and it looks impossible right now) or I'll lose.


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## newtonbase (Feb 27, 2016)

midwatchcowboy said:


> 49yo here. Hadn't picked up a cube since maybe 1983? Had solve the original Rubik's Cube by feel. No algorithms. Wife bought my son a new Rubik's at Target. He got frustrated. I found out about CFOP solve techniques via youtube and have a new Moyu HuaLong and am sub 3 min with a few simple algorithms. Hope to add more to the bag of tricks.



Welcome. You've found the best place on the internet to improve.


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## Jason Green (Feb 27, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> Welcome. You've found the best place on the internet to improve.


You know I wonder if I would've gotten bored or too frustrated by now if not for this forum, having only the kids to compare myself to. Glad this is here for sure!


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## mark49152 (Feb 27, 2016)

h2f said:


> http://m.cubecomps.com/competitions/1392/competitors/36
> 
> patataj patataj patataj


Nice results Grzegorz!


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## Logiqx (Feb 27, 2016)

h2f said:


> http://m.cubecomps.com/competitions/1392/competitors/36
> 
> patataj patataj patataj



GJ. Good to see more PBs on this thread.


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## mafergut (Feb 27, 2016)

Again 3 fails at 3BLD in the WC. Far from my 1st success. At least I got success in the 3 2BLD scrambles 

EDIT: I just verified the 3rd scramble, repeated it sighted and I had it all right. My only mistake was when executing R-perm for parity. I did an extra U turn at the end. The R-perm I use needs a U as setup and ends with a U, that I should have canceled with the U' to undo the setup but I did it out of muscle memory and then I did not undo the setup, ending with a wrongly oriented U face for edges


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## Jason Green (Feb 27, 2016)

h2f said:


> http://m.cubecomps.com/competitions/1392/competitors/36
> 
> patataj patataj patataj


Super awesome! It slipped past me that you were first in BLD! Have you ever gotten first before? What other older cubers have gotten first in an event? I know winning isn't everything, but it can sure make everything else seem like nothing. 

So I've been talking to my brother about creating some t-shirts for me. I think I want something to do with being an older cuber. He'd probably put them on red bubble so others could order if you like. We are open to ideas. I envision an "old man cube", like a cube with a white beard and maybe reading glasses. I'm not sure what it should say. I considered "I'm the cuber, not the parent". I think my favorite idea is capital CFOP that says "Cubing is For Old People".  Any ideas are appreciated!


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## muchacho (Feb 27, 2016)

Jason Green said:


> Super awesome! It slipped past me that you were first in BLD! Have you ever gotten first before? What other older cubers have gotten first in an event? I know winning isn't everything, but it can sure make everything else seem like nothing.


At least François Courtès, Ron van Bruchem, Lars Petrus and Guus Razoux Schultz won while being "officially old". Nice group to join in, Grzegorz!


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## moralsh (Feb 27, 2016)

Some PBs also for me:

http://cubecomps.com/live.php?cid=1388&compid=2

I hope for a better 3x3x3 tomorrow, but very happy with my bigcubes averages


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## Jason Green (Feb 27, 2016)

moralsh said:


> Some PBs also for me:
> 
> http://cubecomps.com/live.php?cid=1388&compid=2
> 
> I hope for a better 3x3x3 tomorrow, but very happy with my bigcubes averages


Impressive, great job!


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## h2f (Feb 28, 2016)

moralsh said:


> Some PBs also for me:
> 
> http://cubecomps.com/live.php?cid=1388&compid=2
> 
> I hope for a better 3x3x3 tomorrow, but very happy with my bigcubes averages



Raul - great! You got mean in 6x6 an 7x7, ao5 in 4x4 and 5x5 - impressive! Good luck, today!



muchacho said:


> Nice, you are close to getting some serious times in 3BLD.



Yeah. My goal now is to be sub-1, I know it's possible to me though when I started I've never dreamed to be sub-2.



mafergut said:


> Wow! Nice times, specially in 3x3 and skewb, and also a nice OH single! And nice 3BLD times, a pity that one of those two last attempts were not fully correct as the times were so good. I assume that you maybe forced a bit after the 1st "safe" success?



OH single in 2nd sove was a surprise for me - I havent practiced OH for 3 months (since last comp). Skewb makes me fun and my progress in that event is surprise to me. I think I will practice it more. Scrambles were fine - no 1 movers and only 1 Zperm (the worst time). 

In 3bld I knew theres no top 10 in Poland on that comp, so it's enough to make a solve to win. This thought made me paralyzed. Luckily I got first solve on cam and you will see reaction. After that I thought it's not a great result to be the first so I pushed myself to make a real good solve. But in both I've messed up corners. The 3rd was really good and easy (8 corners to memo but only 10 edges) but I did wrong comm and finished with all top corners twisted. 
after all - there's gold and I'm happy. It was worth to practice 3bld so hard.  

@Mark @David @Jason @Mike @all - Thank you. It matters to me.


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## moralsh (Feb 28, 2016)

@Jason Thank you!

@Grzegorz, How does it feel to have a gold? I'm envious of your times  I really need to push BLD

I also DNFed (1 attempt each) 4BLD (a non existant edges parity and 2 centers in 12:50) and 5BLD (2 centers also and a lot of wings and midges because I didn't undid an edge setup, I think) I'll try to do another 2 today, but organizing a big comp is a pain.

I'll comment further tonight, I'm leaving like in 10 minutes for day 2.


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## mark49152 (Feb 28, 2016)

Nice results Raul, plenty of PBs there! 

Grzegorz, I also didn't notice you were first. That is awesome! Congrats!


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## muchacho (Feb 28, 2016)

moralsh said:


> Some PBs also for me:
> 
> http://cubecomps.com/live.php?cid=1388&compid=2
> 
> I hope for a better 3x3x3 tomorrow, but very happy with my bigcubes averages



Very nice, congrats! And good luck today!

I don't know much about big cubes, but that 7x7 times seems to be the best of them, right? Why is 6x6 ones not as good? The cube is worst? BTW, what cubes did you use? (I'm thinking of buying a 7x7 Shengshou Mini, although I don't expect I'll try to speedsolve it, is that cube good enough?)


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## moralsh (Feb 28, 2016)

Both were Moyu. I'll tell you later what happened. Ss is fine but moyu is a step ahead


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## h2f (Feb 28, 2016)

@Raul - I'm not aware of this... 

@Mark, Thanks!


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## muchacho (Feb 28, 2016)

In how many comps are there any real medals or trophies? Worlds? Nationals?


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## mark49152 (Feb 28, 2016)

muchacho said:


> In how many comps are there any real medals or trophies? Worlds? Nationals?


UK comps always have medals.

Any old people interested in this?
https://www.speedsolving.com/forum/...Blindfolded-Race-Thread&p=1154590#post1154590


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## Selkie (Feb 28, 2016)

Congratulations of yesterdays achievements Grzegorz and Raúl, some great results there :tu


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## Logiqx (Feb 28, 2016)

moralsh said:


> Some PBs also for me:
> 
> http://cubecomps.com/live.php?cid=1388&compid=2
> 
> I hope for a better 3x3x3 tomorrow, but very happy with my bigcubes averages



Nice. Big improvements in the big events (6x6 + 7x7) and an official average in 5x5.


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## mafergut (Feb 28, 2016)

So nice, Raúl! Good luck today! I will have to just do Weekly Comp 
The idea of organising a comp in Valladolid is not taking off for now, but one day I will go to Madrid for the real deal


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## mark49152 (Feb 28, 2016)

Missed 4BLD PB by 0.05 with 10:01.45. Had to undo a mistake mid-execution, so not only could it have been PB, but also sub-10! Argh! Also had a couple of DNFs at 7/8 mins so definitely getting faster, although my success rate is still ~20%.

Also had a 35 minute 5BLD DNF by two swapped wings! Argh again!

Edit: Finally! 8:58 - first sub-10 is sub-9, yay!


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## MarcelP (Feb 28, 2016)

h2f said:


> http://m.cubecomps.com/competitions/1392/competitors/36
> 
> patataj patataj patataj



Awesome Grzegorz, first place in BLD and some very nice PB's in 3x3. Sounds like you had an awesome weekend! 



moralsh said:


> Some PBs also for me:
> 
> http://cubecomps.com/live.php?cid=1388&compid=2
> 
> I hope for a better 3x3x3 tomorrow, but very happy with my bigcubes averages



Very nice!.... And of course I still envy these nice singles you keep getting in competition


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## h2f (Feb 28, 2016)

@John, @Marcel Thanks. And yes - there were few nice singles. I'm also glad with my skewb ao5 - I think I'm gonna to practice it more.


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## Logiqx (Feb 28, 2016)

Should have stopped the timer at 10.2 but added a U U' and incurred a +2. "Argh"...


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## Jason Green (Feb 28, 2016)

Logiqx said:


> Should have stopped the timer at 10.2 but added a U U' and incurred a +2. "Argh"...
> 
> https://youtu.be/JNy1K9C-sJc


Awesome! Someday maybe, someday.


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## Logiqx (Feb 28, 2016)

MarcelP said:


> sub 18 Ao50 in there,, That is pretty cool



Sub-18 Ao100 today. 



Spoiler



Generated By csTimer on 2016-2-28
solves/total: 100/100

single
best: 10.56
worst: 22.91

mean of 3
current: 17.37 (σ = 2.18)
best: 15.25 (σ = 4.06)

avg of 5
current: 17.27 (σ = 2.05)
best: 16.39 (σ = 0.56)

avg of 12
current: 17.53 (σ = 1.74)
best: 17.05 (σ = 0.77)

avg of 50
current: 17.68 (σ = 1.50)
best: 17.68 (σ = 1.50)

avg of 100
current: 17.92 (σ = 1.45)
best: 17.92 (σ = 1.45)

Average: 17.92 (σ = 1.45)
Mean: 17.91

Time List:
1. 18.94 U' B2 R2 U' B2 U' R2 U L2 D B U F' L D' R' F2 D' U L' 
2. 18.64 D2 U2 B2 D2 U2 R2 F D2 R2 F2 U' B U B2 U' L' R2 D F2 
3. 18.74 L' B2 R2 D' F2 U2 B2 L2 R2 D' F2 U2 B L' F L B2 R' F' U2 B' 
4. 14.73 F' U2 L2 B' L2 R2 D2 F D2 F' R2 L F2 L2 R B L' R F2 U' L2 
5. 15.13 U' D2 B2 D2 L' F2 L' F2 D2 L' D B2 F U' F R D' L' F 
6. 20.13 D2 B2 D' L2 F2 U' F2 U' L2 B2 U' B F R' F' R' B2 U L B R' 
7. 20.78 U2 D' F D2 R B D L U F2 U2 F L2 D2 F2 D2 B' L2 B U2 
8. 16.98 F2 D' B2 L2 D2 L2 R2 F2 U F2 U' B' L' F2 D' B' D2 B' L' D2 
9. 16.48 L2 R2 U' L2 F2 D L2 B2 F2 D2 U' L D2 U' B L F D' B F2 R2 
10. 17.17 L2 U L D F' B' L' F' R D' R2 B L2 F2 R2 B' D2 B U2 L2 
11. 18.72 U2 R' B2 D2 R' F2 U2 R D2 L D' B' D L2 D R B D B2 R' 
12. 18.82 L2 F2 L2 B' F2 U2 L2 F U2 F' D R D2 U R2 B' R U L R2 
13. 18.90 L2 F' R2 B' D2 F' U2 F D2 B L F' D R' U' F R' U2 R2 B 
14. 18.74 B2 U F2 U2 L2 U B2 D2 B2 L2 U' F' R2 U2 R2 U2 B L F' D' U' 
15. 16.16 R2 U B2 U' B2 U B2 F2 R2 D' U' B F2 L F' R B2 U L' R' U' 
16. 18.27 U2 F2 R2 B R2 F' U2 F L2 F' L2 R' D L2 U' B F U2 F' D R2 
17. 16.35 D' F2 D F2 D' R2 F2 D2 R2 F' R' U2 B' R' B2 D2 U' L D' 
18. 20.49 D F L' B D2 L U L' U F2 R2 F2 U' F2 U F2 L2 D' 
19. 17.61 U2 B F D2 L2 F2 L2 U2 B D2 F' D L B L' U L D2 U2 B2 L2 
20. 20.13 B2 L2 B' L2 B' D2 L2 R2 B' D2 F2 D' L2 R' F' U B U2 L' F2 D2 
21. 17.31 L' D F2 D2 B2 L2 B2 U R2 B2 F2 D L D' B2 L2 F D' L' B2 D2 
22. 16.22 R' F2 U2 R D2 B2 F2 L' U2 F2 U2 B' L' B' R2 F D R U' B2 
23. 16.86 B2 F2 L' D2 B2 R2 B2 R2 F2 R U2 B' R2 D F2 U R' F L F' L 
24. 16.86 L2 F2 U' B2 U R2 U2 L2 U B2 U' F' L2 R D' F2 L D F L F2 
25. 17.67 D U2 B2 L2 B2 U' F2 L2 U' B2 L' D F' L' R' B' U2 B F2 
26. 20.01 R F2 D B U L B U' R' F2 L F2 R' B2 D2 L2 F2 R D2 B 
27. 17.49 U B' L2 D2 U2 B' U2 B2 L2 R B' L B U B' F2 L' F2 
28. 18.97 B' U2 L2 F U2 F' U2 F D2 B2 U2 L B' U B2 R F' L R2 
29. 17.11 U2 R' D2 R2 B2 L F2 U2 R B2 R' D' F L' U B2 U2 R2 B' R2 
30. 19.95 U2 F2 U' L2 U2 F2 L2 D U' B R' D U' F2 D2 B U2 L' D' 
31. 14.89 F' B2 R2 B' D2 B' D' F U2 R D2 R' U2 R2 U2 R2 B2 U2 R' U' 
32. 18.77 R2 U F2 B2 R B' D' F' R U2 F2 B2 L2 B D2 F R2 L2 B' U2 
33. 17.46 U' L2 D L2 F2 D' F2 U2 F2 U2 R' F2 U R' B F' R U F' L' 
34. 21.34 F2 B R' D L F2 U B U2 L' U' L2 F2 U2 D B2 R2 D' L2 
35. 15.91 D2 L U2 B2 U2 R2 B2 L' F2 U' R F R' B' D L' B' R' U' 
36. 19.36 D F2 L' B' R B2 L' U L B' D2 F' L2 B2 U2 D2 B' R2 U2 
37. 17.32 U L D2 R U' L D' L' D2 B D L2 B2 R2 U' L2 U' D2 B2 L2 
38. 16.45 F2 D2 L F2 R' U2 R' B2 D2 B2 D' L D' L' B' F D' F2 L2 D' 
39. 19.50 B2 L' B2 U2 F L' U L2 D U2 L2 F L2 U2 F' B2 D2 F' U2 R2 
40. 21.23 F' L2 D2 R2 F L2 F' U2 F2 L2 R B2 D' B' L' U L' R2 D L' 
41. 18.10 R' B2 L' U2 R' D2 U2 R' U2 D B F' R D' L' D2 U R2 F2 
42. 15.98 F' U2 B2 U' R2 B2 U L2 D2 U' F U2 R' U' L' U F2 L2 D2 
43. 18.23 U L2 D2 B2 L2 D2 B2 U2 F' R2 B L' U' F' D L R B' U2 F 
44. 18.94 F2 B' R D' R' L F U' B2 D2 L' B2 L2 B2 L' U2 B2 U2 L 
45. 17.92 F2 L2 B' L2 B' U2 L2 B2 L2 B' F' D' R' D2 U' L B F D F2 L' 
46. 19.98 D' F2 D2 L2 B2 F' R2 F' D2 B L' D' B' L2 B2 F L2 D' 
47. 18.99 D L B' U D B2 U2 R2 B U D2 R D2 R2 B2 L' D2 R U2 B2 
48. 19.36 R B2 D2 F R2 F L2 D2 B D2 F2 L' D B2 D F L' U2 L2 D2 
49. 18.31 B2 L B D' R2 B2 R' U L' B' U2 R2 U2 F2 L2 D2 B D2 B 
50. 18.70 R' B2 U2 R2 B2 U2 L2 F' U2 F' D2 F L B' L' R F2 U' F' R U 
51. 17.28 R2 F2 R' D2 L2 B2 U2 R' D2 L' R' U' F' D' B U2 L R D F 
52. 15.97 R D' R2 F2 U' R2 B2 R2 B2 D2 F2 U R' B L B L D' R2 D' F 
53. 19.63 R B' L2 D R U B' D2 L' R2 U2 D2 F' R2 B2 D2 F2 B' L2 B2 
54. 22.91 F' D2 F U2 B2 F' R2 U2 B2 L' F' U' B2 R2 D' R F' L2 R 
55. 18.58 F2 D2 L2 D2 L2 U2 B2 F U2 L2 B' L' B R U R2 D F' D2 L F2 
56. 15.75 D' L2 B2 U' L2 U F2 L2 D L2 D' B L F U F U2 B' D' L2 B2 
57. 16.80 R2 B' R2 F2 L2 B' D2 U2 F U2 B' U B L B L2 B2 F' D' F R' 
58. 16.62 L2 R2 U2 B2 D F2 L2 R2 U' L2 D' L D2 R' B2 L F' D2 L2 R' F' 
59. 16.83 D2 L2 F L2 F R2 F L2 D2 B2 R2 L D2 R D' B' F2 R D2 B2 L' 
60. 14.77 L2 U' R D' L2 D2 F U L2 D F2 D R2 D2 R2 D L2 F2 
61. 19.75 F' L2 F2 D2 B' R2 F2 L2 F' U2 R2 D L R F L2 B' R D' B' R 
62. 19.69 B2 U2 L' D' F2 L2 D B' D L2 B L2 F' L2 D2 B U2 F2 U2 D2 
63. 19.78 D2 B2 L2 U2 R B2 U2 L U2 B2 R2 F' D U' B D' R' D2 F R2 D2 
64. 20.50 U' R2 D2 U2 L' B2 L B2 R' B2 R2 U2 F' U' B U' L' D' L2 U' L' 
65. 16.76 F2 L' D2 R2 U2 R F2 U2 R2 F R' B U' R' B2 F2 D' U 
66. 17.85 D2 F2 L2 F2 L' D2 B2 L' U2 B2 U2 D' R2 F L2 B' D U2 F R F2 
67. 16.56 R2 B F2 L2 U2 R2 D2 R2 B F2 L2 R D2 B F' D2 B D' R2 B R' 
68. 16.48 L D' R F' L U R2 U B' D2 F2 U2 R2 B R2 B' R2 U2 
69. 18.69 F' U R U2 R' D2 B' U L U L2 D' F2 R2 D L2 D B2 D2 F 
70. 16.51 U B2 R2 D2 U L2 U F2 D' F R2 F2 U2 L D' U L' R2 B' 
71. 17.87 U' R F' B2 U' B2 U D2 L' U' L2 F B' L2 F D2 L2 B D2 B' 
72. 18.30 R U2 B' F L2 B' F2 U2 L2 U2 L2 D' R' B U F2 R' U F 
73. 16.12 D' R' L2 D2 F' U' L F D F2 D2 B2 U2 B2 L2 F' U2 R2 D2 F 
74. 17.58 D L D2 F2 L' D2 R F2 U2 R' F2 D' L F' U R B R2 D U' R2 
75. 16.47 U' L2 U R2 U2 L2 D L B D' B U' F D' L2 B' R' 
76. 15.76 B' L2 U2 L2 D R2 D' R2 F2 D B F U' R D' U' L' D U 
77. 21.62 U' L2 F' D2 R2 B R2 F' U2 L2 D2 F' U' L R B2 U L2 F R2 U 
78. 16.95 L2 F2 U' B2 U' B2 D2 F2 D' F' U' F2 U L R' F2 D2 F R' 
79. 15.98 U' F L2 B' R2 F' R2 B2 D2 B' L2 D2 U' L U2 F' L' B' L' F2 D 
80. 20.60 B' F' R2 F' U2 F' U2 L2 F2 U2 R2 D' B' F' U' R2 U F' R' D U' 
81. 18.75 L2 F' L B2 L2 F' B R2 U' L2 U2 R2 B' D2 F2 R2 U2 L2 B 
82. 14.36 U' B2 U' B2 U R2 D2 B2 R2 B' D' U' L' U2 R U2 B L 
83. 19.63 R L2 B2 F U2 R2 F' U2 F' L2 D2 F L' B' D U F D' L' D' F2 
84. 16.71 R2 B' D2 B R2 D2 B D2 R2 F' U' B2 R D U' F' D' L B2 R' 
85. 18.34 L' B L2 B' L F B R D' L F2 L2 U' B2 L2 U2 L2 U2 B2 
86. 16.26 B' D2 R2 B2 U' L2 F2 U' B2 U' B2 L2 B' D2 U' R F2 U' L F 
87. 18.44 L F2 D' B L' B R' L2 D B' L2 B' U2 F R2 F U2 D2 F' U2 R' 
88. 18.38 U2 L' B2 R' F' D' R' L F U2 F2 U D F2 R2 F2 U R2 U' 
89. 17.64 U' B' L2 R2 B2 D2 B U2 F' L2 R' B2 L U' L' B2 L2 D R 
90. 10.56 U' L2 R2 B2 U B2 D2 L2 U' F2 R' U R D U' F2 R' B' F' R2 
91. 17.53 R F' B R' U' R B2 L' F U2 D2 R L F2 L' D2 F2 U2 L' 
92. 17.88 D B2 D' L2 D2 B2 D' R2 F2 L2 R' D L B' U2 B2 U B' F2 
93. 16.43 F' D2 L B R' F B' D U2 L2 B U2 L2 F2 R2 B L2 F D2 U' 
94. 19.85 D' B F2 L2 F D2 U2 B' U' R' F2 U L' B D2 B2 R2 
95. 21.94 U' F2 B D' R' B2 R L D' R' L2 F L2 B' U2 B R2 B D2 B2 R2 
96. 19.17 D B2 R2 D' L2 D F2 R2 U L2 U L' U' L2 F U L R' B' U' L2 
97. 14.65 D' U2 L2 R2 B L2 U2 R2 U2 B F' R' U' F2 L R B' D' U B' 
98. 19.44 L2 F' D2 B2 D2 F' R2 B F2 D2 F' L' B2 D2 R D' R' B L2 B' 
99. 17.55 U2 F U2 B' D2 B' D2 L2 U2 R D' U B L R2 B D' F' R 
100. 15.10 D B2 U B2 L2 R2 D2 L2 D' L2 D' L D' B U B2 R F' U B2 U2



Nice Ao12 on camera... 17.05:


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## MarcelP (Feb 28, 2016)

h2f said:


> http://m.cubecomps.com/competitions/1392/competitors/36
> 
> patataj patataj patataj





Logiqx said:


> Should have stopped the timer at 10.2 but added a U U' and incurred a +2. "Argh"...
> 
> https://youtu.be/JNy1K9C-sJc



Still awesome solve.. I predict a sub 10 real soon on camera


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## Selkie (Feb 28, 2016)

@Michael

A nice single, despite the +2 and a lovely consistent average. Your turning style seems so effortless. I like the way you adapt TPS to maintain look ahead :tu



Still no news on the dispatch on my large Cubicle order but I did notice that the UK Cube Store is now stocking the Guoguan Yuexiao so I have ordered one from there too. I may very well have a spare Yuexiao at Exeter if anyone wants one as I am very likely going to replace the UK bought one with the Cubicle premium one when it is delivered. Hmm, might have a spare 2 as I just recall ordering a stickerless one as well from Cubicle Haha.

Will definitely do an unboxing video for that Cubicle order but it will be my first so will apologise in advance if I mess it up


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## mafergut (Feb 28, 2016)

Logiqx said:


> Should have stopped the timer at 10.2 but added a U U' and incurred a +2. "Argh"...
> 
> https://youtu.be/JNy1K9C-sJc



So nice and precise turning style!


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## moralsh (Feb 28, 2016)

I'm Physically and mentally exhausted. Organizing a 2 day comp is demanding you can't stop doing things on the Venue and off the venue. I'm glad it's over and I'm sorry it's over. Now a little recap:

2x2: never practice, but the least you can do with a R U2 R' face + sune + U is a 3.68  the rest can be forgotten quietly
3x3: No real practice, not good but not so bad, an 18 PLL skip yesterday and a 16 full step today
4x4: broke my average PB twice in 2 rounds and almost sub 1:20 almost as close to that as my 3x3 avg PB is to sub 20 
5x5: sub 3 average and sub 2:30 single, quite happy with that. I had 2 center pops, fortunately on the same solve 
6x6: Messed up a sub 5:30 by doing the last edge parity wrong, after redoing last 4 centers and edges, I had the same parity again, and the OLL and PLL ones. You can guess what solve it was . Very happy with the mean
7x7: I would have agreed to a sub 9, was hoping for a low 8 average and got a sub 8 one. Very, very happy
Skewb: results all over the place, Need to practice it or stop registering 
OH: 41 average and 37 single, not good, not bad

Blind

Multi: had no time to even attempt it
3BLD: I forgot one edge target, that kept me from doing a 1:53 mean. 1:44 and 1:51 being the non DNFs. A twisted corner that I didn't memo had the same effect on the final round to a possible 1:55 mean, all solves where sub 2
4BLD: 1st off by 2 centers an edge and a nonexistant parity, second one of by some more pieces, last one by 2 centers and 3 edges because I forgot to execute a pair. Times were 12:30, 13:30 and 12:30 (or around that)
5BLD: 1st of by many edges and a couple of centers, some setup undoing went bad, I guess. Second one by...

Sorry I need a new line for this

second one off by forgetting to execute the midges. after stopping and realizing what had I done, I put down again the blindfold and executed the midges. Result: success. What a stupid DNF 

third one of by some centers and few more pieces, another wrong setup, I think. Times where 29 30 and 35

last 2 4BLDs and last 5BLD were all done right after finishing the previous attempt in around 1 hour. Some concentration there 

I'll try to read the thread last 2 pages tomorrow and comment on your PBs. Not today


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## Logiqx (Feb 28, 2016)

Selkie said:


> @Michael
> 
> A nice single, despite the +2 and a lovely consistent average. Your turning style seems so effortless. I like the way you adapt TPS to maintain look ahead :tu



I've only just tried to re-construct this solve (easy for once) and it turns out that there was only one 4 move F2L pair and an OLL skip.

Solution = 50 moves (HTM) = 4.73 TPS

That's nearly on par with Faz's slow turning. lol


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## Jason Green (Feb 29, 2016)

You guys were talking a little bit back about lifetime goals, I meant to answer but forgot. When I started cubing again I thought it would be cool to be under 1 minute. That happened so quick that I thought I'd like to average under 40 seconds, 30 seemed a little possible, but 20 only seemed possible because of people talking about it. I thought if I ever did get to 20 that would surely be my max. This based more on what people said about speeds than my experience. 

Right now 20 is still my goal. Even though I'm close it seems far at the moment because improvements are so small. At the same time I doubt I'll ever be satisfied with where I'm at. I can't imagine averaging 15, over a second under my PB, but maybe in the years to come?

I guess also I could say life goals of 6 for 2x2 and 1:30 for 4x4. Again just based on numbers that seem good since I have not put much time in practice yet. 

BTW, I did get a new PB today of 16.156.  I have also gotten just under 3 mins on 4x4 and I think a 5.8 sec 2x2? Finally I have finished a few OH solves at about 2 mins. Haha


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## Selkie (Feb 29, 2016)

@Raúl - Great analysis of your comp there, lovely to see so many Personal Bests and so, so close for BLD mean, sure you will get it next time.

@Michael - They all count sir. To be fair, more often than not, if I get an easy scramble I usually mess it up so congratulations on such a calm solve under the circumstances. To be honest you have improved a lot since the last video I watched of yours. Looking really promising :tu

@Jason - Congratulations on the PB, very nice. If you keep setting attainable goals you would be surprised at how quickly you have to set a new one. Even when you feel that improvement is coming in very small amount or as was my case for a couple of years, when you feel no improvement, the practice always pays off. Can surprise yourself at times 

.....

Well up very early to fly to Manchester and back for a business meeting today and I have decided to practice some 5x5 during the flights. will let you know how that goes hehe

Lots of talk of goals coupled with great results from Grzegorz and Raúl over the weekend had persuaded me to set my goals early for Exeter Open 2016 in just over a month an to set them in front of you guys, those people I am most motivated to succeed by.



Spoiler



Single/Average
3x3: Sub 16/Sub 16.5 - Realistic goal here though would be delighted with a sub 15 average but that is a lifetime goal in comp so not going to be greedy 
4x4: Sub 1:10/Sub 1:05 - Need some practice here, where I was sub 1:10 globally, two ao12's in last few days have been >1:12 so in reality I would be happy with PBs for single and average. I also seem to have the most amazing ability at the moment to get double parity on what feels like 90% of solves 
5x5: Sub 2:15/Sub 2:20
6x6: Sub 4:30/Sub Cutoff
7x7: SubPB/No! - Cutoff for 7x7 average used to be 7:00 a few years ago and I never made that so will not make 6:00. Need to practice this event a lot more to have a chance of getting anywhere close
Clock: Sub 14/Sub 16
Square-1: Sub 30 (Probably a bit hopeful, will need an easy cube shape case)/SubPB
Skewb: PB/PB - New event for me so best chance of a couple of PBs hehe
3BLD: Success would be nice but for now will be happy just to get to a stage where I am happy to attempt one
All Others: No Goals


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## h2f (Feb 29, 2016)

@Raul, congrats of all achievements you made on last comp. It's impressive.

@Jason, new Pb, just "wow". Next - sub-14, you will see. 


Monday is a good day to back to practice again. Talking about goals: sub-20 ao100 as soon as it's possible. This means - practice. My practice looks like this: PLLs for warmup and I do some practice with my worst PLLs (Gb, Na, Nb at the moment). Some slow solves and if I feel comfortable - ao30 or ao50 if I have time. In the weekend I'm gonna look through my OLLs to see which ones are bad and good.


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## muchacho (Feb 29, 2016)

Jason Green said:


> BTW, I did get a new PB today of 16.156.


Not bad, that's even sub-me  I did a 16.3 on December and who knows when I'll beat that.


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## MarcelP (Feb 29, 2016)

h2f said:


> @John, @Marcel Thanks. And yes - there were few nice singles. I'm also glad with my skewb ao5 - I think I'm gonna to practice it more.



I did a Skewb solve this weekend, because I registered for Skewb in May this year. I understand the part where you do U turns with slegde hammers. What I do not get is how to make a quick first 4 corners. Are there any good sources for learning that? The Skewb cross equivalent?


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## Shaky Hands (Feb 29, 2016)

Back from a weekend away. Congrats to everyone on their PB's and other achievements.



Selkie said:


> Yes, unfortunately the cutoffs in UK are quite severe and need to be given the skill level of the average cuber at comp. It may well be the same in other countries but we have an amazing level of ability on average. The average cutoff for 4x4 has been 1:30 and for 5x5 been 2:30 for the last five years. I think it is a good goal to be sub cutoff





mark49152 said:


> Yeah I agree. At first I found it frustrating but when I accepted it as a challenge, I actually really enjoyed working to beat the cutoff and when I did, it was a great feeling. It's nice to have a goal that carries a real reward as opposed to an arbitrary time goal.



Yep, that's all I'm really aiming for. Can't beat the hard cut for 5x5 at the moment, so have a long way to go. Hoping practice will pay off. If I can envisage every second off 3x3 as 4-7 seconds off 4x4 and 8-14 seconds off 5x5 this should keep me in high spirits! 



midwatchcowboy said:


> 49yo here. Hadn't picked up a cube since maybe 1983? Had solve the original Rubik's Cube by feel. No algorithms. Wife bought my son a new Rubik's at Target. He got frustrated. I found out about CFOP solve techniques via youtube and have a new Moyu HuaLong and am sub 3 min with a few simple algorithms. Hope to add more to the bag of tricks.



Welcome! I also picked up a cube last year for the first time since the 80's. Not sure I even managed to solve it back then either. You'll find plenty of good tips here. Good luck.



moralsh said:


> I'm Physically and mentally exhausted. Organizing a 2 day comp is demanding you can't stop doing things on the Venue and off the venue. I'm glad it's over and I'm sorry it's over.



I think it's awesome that people arrange competitions and hope lots of people thanked you for doing so. I always try to make a point of thanking the people involved in setting up comps so that they can be enjoyed. Well done.


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## mafergut (Feb 29, 2016)

@Raúl: I'm exhausted just from thinking about all the events you participated in, not to talk about organising the event. I can only imagine how demanding 4BLD and 5BLD must be so, congratulations on all your very good results.

@Jason: Nice PB single! You're getting faster fast, man! 

@Marcel: I have the same problem myself. I waste a lot of time with corners of the 1st layer when, e.g. there are none already in place in any face, or just one and there are no easy ones (one-movers, etc.) I also have difficulties to predict where one corner will end up after being affected by placing another so, this ends up taking too much time. Sadly I have not found any resources. Please make sure you put a note here in case you find something. Maybe,

@Grzegorz, you have some suggestions? You did a fantastic job with skewb the other day.


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## muchacho (Feb 29, 2016)

(Because of being colorblind to those light greens that are used in most cubes) I've replace the red side of a stickerless thunderclap with the black of a black thunderclap, the red pieces went to the orange side and the orange's to the green.

I've done 12 solves with it and it looks promising (33.20 average, a 24.65 being the fastest of them), once I graduate from the race to sub-25 I think I'll change to this color scheme.

I also need help building the first layer in Skewb, I should upload the ones I did in my competition, it was atrocious... wait, I've not even uploaded the 3x3's yet 

Yesterday's Megaminx solves were worst than bad, today ones must be under 4:30 to get a 5:00 ao12


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## mafergut (Feb 29, 2016)

muchacho said:


> (Because of being colorblind to those light greens that are used in most cubes) I've replace the red side of a stickerless thunderclap with the black of a black thunderclap, the red pieces went to the orange side and the orange's to the green.
> 
> I've done 12 solves with it and it looks promising (33.20 average, a 24.65 being the fastest of them), once I graduate from the race to sub-25 I think I'll change to this color scheme.
> 
> ...



I hope you can find a color scheme you can be confortable with. I assume that is an added difficulty for Mega, as 12 colors is a lot and even I have issues telling the two greens and the two yellows apart in my Shengshou.

Anyway, it looks like the sudden worsening of the times in mega might be more caused by the pressure of being close to winning the race that we being close to our limit because I am even fearing that tomorrow I will get the new WC scrambles and will do really badly 

Also, to increase the number of events I do at WC I yesterday learned a very basic method for SQ-1 and also did Match the Scramble, which, by the way, I found to be a lot of fun. Terrible times at both events but at least I'll get points for participating. Maybe I will even try (next week?) MultiBLD with 2 cubes. At like 12-15 minutes currently for each rescrambling  I don't think I have time for 3 cubes in 1 hour and it's going to be a DNF anyway so... (I haven't even had my 1st success at 3BLD so, how come I want to try multi? I'm crazy, that's why).

So far a record of 14 events at WC and that's just because I don't and won't ever do Feet (ughhh!) and I don't have a Magic or a Clock. Nice times at most of them this week, except for some failures here and there. Of course, even though I'm crazy I don't even think about trying 4BLD, well, I don't even know how to do the dang thing  So, only way to increase the number of events is to buy a 6x6 and 7x7. Shengshous are good enough? I don't want to spend a lot in Moyus. Yuxin, can you build a cheap and great 6x6 and 7x7, please? CB? QiYi, somebody?


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## h2f (Feb 29, 2016)

MarcelP said:


> I did a Skewb solve this weekend, because I registered for Skewb in May this year. I understand the part where you do U turns with slegde hammers. What I do not get is how to make a quick first 4 corners. Are there any good sources for learning that? The Skewb cross equivalent?



I've watched nothing. I just try to find one or two moves corner and predict how it affects on the others which arent in their spot. I almost always start with one or 2 corners solved. If you want I may try to make a walkthrough few solves but I'm not advanced solver just noob.

My winning 3bld solve:


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## mark49152 (Feb 29, 2016)

Selkie said:


> I also seem to have the most amazing ability at the moment to get double parity on what feels like 90% of solves


Yeah I feel the same. In my last session I counted 18 OLL parities in 25 solves and despite the obvious psychology, it feels typical. I do wonder if maybe my scrambler always makes an odd or even number of moves, and then my centres solutions are biased towards an odd or even move count. It's not implausible that there's a real bias.



Shaky Hands said:


> Can't beat the hard cut for 5x5 at the moment, so have a long way to go. Hoping practice will pay off.


What worked for me was dedicated practice, meaning do only 5x5 for a few weeks. For me, doing a couple of sessions a week among everything else was just not working. Also, 5x5 practice definitely improves 3x3 skills like lookahead, but I don't think the converse is true. After a few weeks of 5x5, 3x3 feels trivial


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## muchacho (Feb 29, 2016)

mafergut said:


> I hope you can find a color scheme you can be confortable with. I assume that is an added difficulty for Mega, as 12 colors is a lot and even I have issues telling the two greens and the two yellows apart in my Shengshou.
> 
> Anyway, it looks like the sudden worsening of the times in mega might be more caused by the pressure of being close to winning the race that we being close to our limit because I am even fearing that tomorrow I will get the new WC scrambles and will do really badly


For the megaminx I replaced some colors and rearrange others, but it's fine, it's just those light greens the ones I can't "see".

For my bad times I'd like to blame the natural lighting, it was cloudy last two days... today it's sunny, will see if my theory fails


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## muchacho (Feb 29, 2016)

h2f said:


> My winning 3bld solve:


When you saw it solved you knew you were gonna win


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## Shaky Hands (Feb 29, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> What worked for me was dedicated practice, meaning do only 5x5 for a few weeks. For me, doing a couple of sessions a week among everything else was just not working. Also, 5x5 practice definitely improves 3x3 skills like lookahead, but I don't think the converse is true. After a few weeks of 5x5, 3x3 feels trivial



Aye. I've done 11 hours of 5x5 practice in the past week. I think my technique is improving although my times aren't. Things can only get better, as the song goes; and whilst I'll set myself targets I don't mind missing them so long as I'm motivating myself to improve.

I agree that bigger cubes can only help 3x3. I just got a new Personal Best with my first sub-20 solve. It's probably got my best Ao12 and Ao25 in there too.



Spoiler


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## mafergut (Feb 29, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> What worked for me was dedicated practice, meaning do only 5x5 for a few weeks. For me, doing a couple of sessions a week among everything else was just not working. Also, 5x5 practice definitely improves 3x3 skills like lookahead, but I don't think the converse is true. After a few weeks of 5x5, 3x3 feels trivial



Then I definitely need to spend a few weeks practising 5x5 only. Another few at 4x4. Same with Pyra, Skewb, Mega & SQ-1  I would revert back to sup-25 at 3x3 by then 



Shaky Hands said:


> [...] I just got a new Personal Best with my first sub-20 solve. It's probably got my best Ao12 and Ao25 in there too.



Welcome to the sub-20 club. You know, you start by single, then you get a sub-20 Ao5, then an Ao12... then you want to be globally sub-20. Up to Ao12 things are easy. From Ao100 onwards it takes a little bit more time, at least for me. Might not apply to you. Congratulations and, you know, keep pushing!

@Grzegorz: Nice as always to watch your 3BLD videos. I would be more than happy to get sub-2 some day but I know you can get an official sub-1 so, go for it!

By the way. I almost forgot that I had my FMC solution written down in a piece of paper for the WC and I hadn't posted it yet, so it is 15 events so far this week!!!  How's 47 moves for my 1st time ever trying FMC using just a bit of blockbuilding and standard CFOP? Need to learn advanced techniques for that as well.


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## MarcelP (Feb 29, 2016)

h2f said:


> If you want I may try to make a walkthrough few solves but I'm not advanced solver just noob.



Yes please.. 



mafergut said:


> How's 47 moves for my 1st time ever trying FMC using just a bit of blockbuilding and standard CFOP?



That's not too shabby.. With little corner commutator (insertions) practice you will be just fine. Here I tried to explain it:


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## Jason Green (Feb 29, 2016)

Shaky Hands said:


> I agree that bigger cubes can only help 3x3. I just got a new Personal Best with my first sub-20 solve. It's probably got my best Ao12 and Ao25 in there too.



Awesome job, my first sub 20 was not long ago I was ecstatic! I still have not got ao5 though very close. 

Nice reaction Grzegorz. Looks like relief.


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## h2f (Feb 29, 2016)

Jason Green said:


> Nice reaction Grzegorz. Looks like relief.



Yes, it was.


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## mafergut (Feb 29, 2016)

MarcelP said:


> Yes please..
> 
> That's not too shabby.. With little corner commutator (insertions) practice you will be just fine. Here I tried to explain it:
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CAic-uTNCFI



I second your request for walkthrough solves!

Regarding your commutators video you explain it nicely enough but I'm afraid I don't quite follow how this is useful for FMC as you are cancelling a commutator with the inverse of the scramble or something like that but, one is not supposed to use the scramble or parts of it for the solution in FMC so, I'm a bit lost.


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## sqAree (Feb 29, 2016)

mafergut said:


> I second your request for walkthrough solves!
> 
> Regarding your commutators video you explain it nicely enough but I'm afraid I don't quite follow how this is useful for FMC as you are cancelling a commutator with the inverse of the scramble or something like that but, one is not supposed to use the scramble or parts of it for the solution in FMC so, I'm a bit lost.



It's not related to the scramble or its inverse. A good tutorial for FMC is here: http://fmcsolves.cubing.net/fmc_tutorial_ENG.pdf. Page 15 onwards explain commutators for FMC.


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## mafergut (Feb 29, 2016)

sqAree said:


> It's not related to the scramble or its inverse. A good tutorial for FMC is here: http://fmcsolves.cubing.net/fmc_tutorial_ENG.pdf. Page 15 onwards explain commutators for FMC.



Nice tutorial! I just skimmed through it. Now I get it: "if there are only 3 corners left to solve, I can go through my whole skeleton move by move and solve them when the corresponding commutator only requires 8 moves". So you basically insert the commutator in the middle of your solve, whenever the pieces are in a position to do it with a pure 8-move comm and, if possible, cancelling as many moves as you can.

What I did not realize is that I could end up with an entire cube solved but just 3 corners. I understand that OLL and PLL are not the way to do it efficiently for FMC but I don't know enough of Petrus, Heise or even Roux or ZZ to be able to use them in FMC solves so, by using just blockbuilding / FreeFOP it's not likely that I can benefit from inserting a commutator anywhere. Most probably I would need at least one for 3 corners and another for 3 edges in the LL


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## muchacho (Feb 29, 2016)

Megaminx race to sub-5 ao12, PBs:
Single: 4:18
Ao5: 4:52
Ao12: 5:13

So... Sunny days = good times

Mo6 today was 4:54, so now depending at what time you make your attempts I may still have an opportunity tomorrow, if so I would still need a sunny day, be fully focused and some luck.

If we make it the same day it's a draw, right?


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## sqAree (Feb 29, 2016)

mafergut said:


> Nice tutorial! I just skimmed through it. Now I get it: "if there are only 3 corners left to solve, I can go through my whole skeleton move by move and solve them when the corresponding commutator only requires 8 moves". So you basically insert the commutator in the middle of your solve.
> 
> What I did not realize is that I could end up with an entire cube solved but just 3 corners. I understand that OLL and PLL are not the way to do it efficiently for FMC but I don't know enough of Petrus, Heise or even Roux or ZZ to be able to use them in FMC solves so, by using just blockbuilding / FreeFOP it's not likely that I can benefit from inserting a commutator anywhere. Most probably I would need at least one for 3 corners and another for 3 edges in the LL



You can basically just use blockbuilding / freeFOP until F2L minus one pair, and then insert the last pair while solving the edges of the last layer (try out different inserts). After that you have only 3 or 4 corners left to solve and for those you use one or two 8-move commutators. And you don't only want to insert your commutator where it is only 8 moves but often you can do better when it cancels moves with your skeleton. 6 or 7 total moves for a 3-corner insertion is not uncommon.


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## mafergut (Feb 29, 2016)

sqAree said:


> You can basically just use blockbuilding / freeFOP until F2L minus one pair, and then insert the last pair while solving the edges of the last layer (try out different inserts). After that you have only 3 or 4 corners left to solve and for those you use one or two 8-move commutators. And you don't only want to insert your commutator where it is only 8 moves but often you can do better when it cancels moves with your skeleton. 6 or 7 total moves for a 3-corner insertion is not uncommon.



Got it! In this particular case, after OLL I ended up with an A-perm as PLL, which is 9 moves. Just for fun I'm gonna try to improve my solution, searching for an insertion that maybe saves me a couple moves  Not sure that the rules of the WC will allow me to rectify my result, though. Not sure I will be able to identify and come up with the exact pure commutator I'll need even if it's barking at me


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## newtonbase (Feb 29, 2016)

1:51.58 4x4 PB single. Lost over a second missing the timer.


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## Jason Green (Feb 29, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> 1:51.58 4x4 PB single. Lost over a second missing the timer.


Nice one, I'm jealous!


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## mafergut (Feb 29, 2016)

muchacho said:


> Megaminx race to sub-5 ao12, PBs:
> Single: 4:18
> Ao5: 4:52
> Ao12: 5:13
> ...



Wow! That beats my PB single!!! I'm not sure when I will be able to do more solves, maybe not until Thursday but it's fair, if we make it the same day it's a draw. But now that you are sub-me (at least in single) I will not restrict to 5-6 solves a week 

By the way, I could insert a comm into my FMC solve but, sadly it does not cancel any moves. Anyway it improves the solution by 1 move, as it changes a 9 move A-perm by an 8-move pure comm. I'm happy! I don't have time to keep searching for insertion points now but I'll try to do it later or tomorrow.


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## newtonbase (Feb 29, 2016)

Jason Green said:


> Nice one, I'm jealous!



Not for long I'll bet. I was on for an AO5 PB too. Low 2 mins would have done it but I messed up parity and went well over 3 mins.


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## h2f (Feb 29, 2016)

Very nice, Mark!


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## Selkie (Mar 1, 2016)

Shaky Hands said:


> I just got a new Personal Best with my first sub-20 solve. It's probably got my best Ao12 and Ao25 in there too.]



Congratulations, doesn't it feel great! I agree with others that with continued practice your first sub 20 average is actually not that far away 



h2f said:


> I've watched nothing. I just try to find one or two moves corner and predict how it affects on the others which arent in their spot. I almost always start with one or 2 corners solved. If you want I may try to make a walkthrough few solves but I'm not advanced solver just noob.



Great solve under comp pressure :tu



newtonbase said:


> 1:51.58 4x4 PB single. Lost over a second missing the timer.



I hate it when that happens. The anticipation of a good time does that. I ruined many a good solve doing just that. Congratulations on the pb :tu

..........

Didn't get a chance to cube on either flight today as the plane was packed tight and not enough elbow room  However feel like I am coming down with a cold and couldn't sleep despite now being up 22 hours I have been doing some 5x5 now and sub 2:19 for 25 solves. Looking promising for PB single and average in exeter in April but I still get the odd solve over 2:30 (average cut), always seems to be when I forget to count how many tredges I have solved so far, odd!


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## Jason Green (Mar 1, 2016)

Ok, I have a noob question. Since I don't even have a 5x5 yet I have not tried to learn it. A co-worker moved into a cube (haha) near mine and we got talking about cubes because of my cube lanyard I got at my first contest. She loves cubes, and she solves them but never got into speed solving (I'll try to correct that). Anyway, she is going to bring in her 5x5 sometime, so I'd like to be able to solve it. 

My question is, should I be able to muddle my way through most of it given I know Hoya for 4x4? I figure I would have to look up the OLL parity, and I guess there is no PLL parity (that's cool I didn't even know that!). I'm not sure how different the edge building is. I watched a video or two but haven't found a good one.

...Oh I just now found crazy bad cuber's edge pairing tutorial, it might be good I like most of his!

Edit: I also saw the last edge parity is different. I think I could use hoya and free slice to work through it... maybe.


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## MarcelP (Mar 1, 2016)

mafergut said:


> Now I get it: "if there are only 3 corners left to solve, I can go through my whole skeleton move by move and solve them when the corresponding commutator only requires 8 moves". So you basically insert the commutator in the middle of your solve, whenever the pieces are in a position to do it with a pure 8-move comm and, if possible, cancelling as many moves as you can.
> 
> What I did not realize is that I could end up with an entire cube solved but just 3 corners.



Yay! You have got it. What you should try to do from the first few moves is orient edges as much as possible while making the blocks. That way you have a higher chance of ending up with a low move count skeleton leaving only 3,4 or 5 corners. It has been a long while since I did FMC. I might have to start doing the weekly competition FMC again just to stay practiced.  Btw, if you have a nice skeleton there are programs as insertion finder (http://mf.qiyuuu.com/) to find the optimal insertion for you. Of course in competition this is illegal, but it is very handy while learning FMC. I wrote an insertion finder in Java a while ago. It is also finds the optimal insertions.


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## mark49152 (Mar 1, 2016)

Congrats on the sub-20 Andy, and on the 4x4 Mark!



Jason Green said:


> My question is, should I be able to muddle my way through most of it given I know Hoya for 4x4? I figure I would have to look up the OLL parity, and I guess there is no PLL parity (that's cool I didn't even know that!). I'm not sure how different the edge building is. I watched a video or two but haven't found a good one.


Pretty much yes. You'll need to modify your OLL parity - that might be as simple as using the same alg as 4x4 but turning 3 layers instead of 2 for one of the moves. Depends what alg you use. Centres can be figured out intuitively. Cross edges are easy enough to figure out Hoya style. For pairing the other edges, I like to start with a wing on its own then search for the midge that goes with it and continue like that to pair tredges up half at a time (called chain pairing, or AvG) - it's not quite as efficient as freeslice but look ahead is easier and it's very similar to 4x4 pairing so easy to pick up. Good luck!


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## mafergut (Mar 1, 2016)

MarcelP said:


> Yay! You have got it. What you should try to do from the first few moves is orient edges as much as possible while making the blocks. That way you have a higher chance of ending up with a low move count skeleton leaving only 3,4 or 5 corners. It has been a long while since I did FMC. I might have to start doing the weekly competition FMC again just to stay practiced.  Btw, if you have a nice skeleton there are programs as insertion finder (http://mf.qiyuuu.com/) to find the optimal insertion for you. Of course in competition this is illegal, but it is very handy while learning FMC. I wrote an insertion finder in Java a while ago. It is also finds the optimal insertions.



Thanks a lot for your feedback and the link. That insertion finder found one I couldn't, which canceled 2 moves, just but altering the order of L R' in my skeleton to R' L and inserting the 3-corner cycle in the middle of those. That was something I didn't even realize was possible yesterday. So I've learned a lot  Will try to keep competing in FMC in future weeks. Of course I will only use the insertion finder after I present my final solution.


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## h2f (Mar 1, 2016)

cstimer finds insertions as well and I use it. Theres an option in tools - insertion finder.


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## h2f (Mar 1, 2016)

I think yes it does but it translates it to no-rotation sceleton. The very first thing you can learn is to stop rotate cube - it makes finding insertions much easier. I did only rotation in the beginning when I started FMC. Now - I do no rotation - I scramble in the orientation I solve.


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## mafergut (Mar 1, 2016)

h2f said:


> I think yes it does but it translates it to no-rotation sceleton. The very first thing you can learn is to stop rotate cube - it makes finding insertions much easier. I did only rotation in the beginning when I started FMC. Now - I do no rotation - I scramble in the orientation I solve.



I just rotated at the beginning to orient the cube with "cross on bottom". It is really difficult for me to build an x-cross on top, back or one side. I suppose I just need to get used to it? Anyway it does not seem to be working for me. I just copied the scramble and skeleton, pressed submit and nothing happens.


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## h2f (Mar 1, 2016)

If you solve on white just scramble with white on bottom. Are you sure the skeleton is ok? Have you checked in alg.cubing.net?


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## newtonbase (Mar 1, 2016)

Jason Green said:


> Ok, I have a noob question. Since I don't even have a 5x5 yet I have not tried to learn it. A co-worker moved into a cube (haha) near mine and we got talking about cubes because of my cube lanyard I got at my first contest. She loves cubes, and she solves them but never got into speed solving (I'll try to correct that). Anyway, she is going to bring in her 5x5 sometime, so I'd like to be able to solve it.
> 
> My question is, should I be able to muddle my way through most of it given I know Hoya for 4x4? I figure I would have to look up the OLL parity, and I guess there is no PLL parity (that's cool I didn't even know that!). I'm not sure how different the edge building is. I watched a video or two but haven't found a good one.
> 
> ...



Crazybadcuber has a good centres video too and cyoubx has a nice 5x5 series that was mentioned up thread. 

For parity, with the edge at UF, I use the exact same alg as on 4x4
Rw' U2 Lw F2 Lw' F2 Rw2 U2 Rw U2 Rw' U2 F2 Rw2 F2
The jump from 4x4 to 5x5 is far smaller than the jump from 3x3 to 4x4. 
Also, buy a Yuxin. 

I ordered from Champion's Cube Store and from Lightake on the same night 12 days ago. Lightake shipped yesterday. The Champion's Cube Store order, with free delivery, just arrived.


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## mafergut (Mar 1, 2016)

h2f said:


> If you solve on white just scramble with white on bottom. Are you sure the skeleton is ok? Have you checked in alg.cubing.net?



I think I did not explain myself well. I can be color neutral and, I'da say, being color neutral is a must for FMC where you absolutely need to find the best blocks there are. For speedsolving I'm still slower with other than white/yellow but I can perfectly get the chance the scramble gives and use any color cross.

The reason I rotate is to just put the chosen cross color on bottom. If I do what you suggest and scramble with white on bottom instead of top then the good block will end up being in the opposite colour and I will have to rotate anyway.

Let's say I scramble in WCA orientation and I see a good x-cross on green. I start with x' and work from there. If, instead, I scramble the cube with green bottom, white front, blue on top then the good x-cross will be on white and I will want to do an x' anyway to put white on bottom.

And yes, I checked my skeleton like a dozen times yesterday and the page that Marcel recommended actually found some insertions with nice move cancellations. I even tried with the converted skeleton without rotations given by this page as part of the output and still nothing happens.


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## muchacho (Mar 1, 2016)

Megaminx race to sub 5 ao12:
Ao12: 5:00.58

Ouch, so close


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## h2f (Mar 1, 2016)

Strange. Cstimer always worked well for me. Even if I add x or y o z in the beginning. And I meant - dont do other roatations except the first in preinspection. CN is good skill but you dont have to be CN to be good at FMC. 

Can you put a scarmble and your solution here, I try to figure out whats wrong with cstimer?


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## mafergut (Mar 1, 2016)

muchacho said:


> Megaminx race to sub 5 ao12:
> Ao12: 5:00.58
> 
> Ouch, so close



Can't you roll it? It looks like in the end I will lose, unless I can get a sub-5 Ao12 this afternoon, which I doubt.



h2f said:


> Strange. Cstimer always worked well for me. Even if I add x or y o z in the beginning. And I meant - dont do other roatations except the first in preinspection. CN is good skill but you dont have to be CN to be good at FMC.
> 
> Can you put a scarmble and your solution here, I try to figure out whats wrong with cstimer?



Scramble: F2 L2 B2 R2 D2 B' R2 D2 B' D2 L' D' B' D' U' R B' U2 L'

Skeleton: x2 y' R' U F' U F' U2 L R' B' U B' R' U R' U R' U2 R U B' U2 B U' F' U' F U F' U2 F y R U R' U' R' F R F'

Yeah, that's what I was meaning, that I didn't do any other rotations after the initial one. Well, in fact I did another one right before OLL just to be able to write down the OLL without much thinking but I could have avoided / transformed that (just changing Rs to Bs and Fs to Rs).


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## Selkie (Mar 1, 2016)

@Jason

Some great recommendations from others there. Just to add another source to the mix, when I started solving big cubes I learned a lot of algs from http://www.kungfoomanchu.com/ as I was able to print out the colour PDFs to take around with me. Consequently most of my parity algs come from those 

Re: FMC

I agree you definitely need to solve FMC colour neutral. I do but am blue cross on 3x3 so the skill doesn't necessarily need to transfer. Really must practice as I am signed up for FMC in April and my comp PB was set before I actually learned some FMC techniques. Its a lovely event and one where being older has no bearing. In fact the more experience the better. With a PB of 25 in weekly comp a few years ago I must get back to it. Its just an event where it is harder to find a solid hour to devote.

..........

Very pleased with a Square-1 session I just had with 

Average of 12: 31.08 - Over 4 seconds off old PB
Average of 5: 28.01 - First ever sub 30 average (Solves 2 - 6 Below)

Yes, a good average is luck with Square-1 relying on good cube shape scrambles but pleased all the same and do actually believe I might be sub 40 globally on Square-1 now

Scrambles and times in spoiler:-


Spoiler



1. 37.68 (3, 2) / (4, -5) / (3, -3) / (0, -3) / (5, -4) / (-3, -2) / (6, 0) / (3, 0) / (-3, 0) / (-1, -3) / (-4, 0) / (-2, 0) / 
2. 27.23 (-5, 0) / (-4, 5) / (4, -5) / (6, 0) / (-3, -1) / (3, 0) / (2, -5) / (2, -2) / (-4, 0) / (4, 0) / (6, -4) / (-1, 0) / 
3. 27.65 (-5, 0) / (2, 2) / (-3, 0) / (0, -3) / (3, 0) / (-3, 0) / (1, -3) / (-3, 0) / (0, -3) / (1, 0) / (0, -2) / (-2, -1) / (4, -5) / 
4. 33.11 (-5, 0) / (2, -1) / (-3, 0) / (6, -3) / (-2, -2) / (3, 0) / (0, -4) / (-3, -3) / (5, 0) / (6, -2) / (0, -4) / (2, 0) / (0, -2)
5. (21.82) (-2, 0) / (0, 6) / (-3, 0) / (-4, -1) / (-5, -5) / (0, -3) / (5, 0) / (0, -3) / (0, -1) / (-3, 0) / (-2, -2)
6. 29.14 (0, -4) / (1, -2) / (-3, 0) / (0, -3) / (-4, -4) / (1, -2) / (0, -1) / (-3, 0) / (0, -2) / (0, -4) / (3, -2) / (-4, 0) / (6, -4)
7. 29.85 (-3, 2) / (6, 0) / (0, -3) / (-3, 0) / (1, -2) / (0, -3) / (-4, 0) / (0, -3) / (4, -1) / (-2, 0) / (0, -4) / (0, -3) / (0, -2) / (-2, 0)
8. 34.94 (0, 2) / (0, 3) / (4, -5) / (0, -3) / (3, 0) / (3, -3) / (-3, -4) / (-3, 0) / (-1, 0) / (-4, 0) / (1, 0) / (-2, 0) / 
9. 31.44 (-2, 0) / (2, -1) / (3, 0) / (4, -2) / (5, -1) / (-5, 0) / (-3, 0) / (-1, 0) / (0, -2) / (2, -3) / (-4, -5) / (0, -2) / 
10. 33.44 (4, 0) / (2, -4) / (3, 0) / (-3, 0) / (4, -5) / (3, 0) / (0, -4) / (-3, -3) / (0, -3) / (-3, -1) / (-4, 0) / (2, 0) / (-4, 0) / 
11. (51.50) (-5, 0) / (-4, -4) / (6, 0) / (0, -3) / (-3, 0) / (-5, -2) / (-3, -4) / (3, 0) / (-4, 0) / (-5, 0) / (2, 0) / (-1, 0) / (0, -3)
12. 26.36 (0, 5) / (-2, 4) / (6, 0) / (0, -3) / (-3, 0) / (-1, -4) / (-2, 0) / (-3, -3) / (-3, -2) / (0, -4) / (3, -2) / (0, -5) /


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## muchacho (Mar 1, 2016)

mafergut said:


> Can't you roll it? It looks like in the end I will lose, unless I can get a sub-5 Ao12 this afternoon, which I doubt.


Apart from the DNF the mo5 was 5:09, maybe tomorrow I can get a sub 5 ao12, but just maybe, yesterday's mo6 was 4:54 and I failed today...


_PB ao5 in 3x3: 20.74 (it was 21.06 from Feb 20)_


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## h2f (Mar 1, 2016)

mafergut said:


> Scramble: F2 L2 B2 R2 D2 B' R2 D2 B' D2 L' D' B' D' U' R B' U2 L'
> 
> Skeleton: x2 y' R' U F' U F' U2 L R' B' U B' R' U R' U R' U2 R U B' U2 B U' F' U' F U F' U2 F y R U R' U' R' F R F'
> 
> Yeah, that's what I was meaning, that I didn't do any other rotations after the initial one. Well, in fact I did another one right before OLL just to be able to write down the OLL without much thinking but I could have avoided / transformed that (just changing Rs to Bs and Fs to Rs).



This is what i got:



Spoiler



1 corner 3-cycle(s) insertion(s) needed 

B' D L' D L' D2 B' [@1] F R' D R' B' D B' D B' D2 B D R' D2 R D' L' D' L D L' D2 L R D R' D' R' B R B'
Insert at @1: B U2 B' D' B U2 B' D
Fewest moves: 44. 2 moves cancelled
The final solution: B' D L' D L' D2 U2 B' D' B U2 B' D F R' D R' B' D B' D B' D2 B D R' D2 R D' L' D' L D L' D2 L R D R' D' R' B R B'

B' D L' D L' D2 [@1] F B' R' D R' B' D B' D B' D2 B D R' D2 R D' L' D' L D L' D2 L R D R' D' R' B R B'
Insert at @1: U2 B' D' B U2 B' D B
Fewest moves: 44. 2 moves cancelled
The final solution: B' D L' D L' D2 U2 B' D' B U2 B' D F R' D R' B' D B' D B' D2 B D R' D2 R D' L' D' L D L' D2 L R D R' D' R' B R B'

Runtime: 5.321 milliseconds


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## MarcelP (Mar 1, 2016)

Selkie said:


> Its just an event where it is harder to find a solid hour to devote.



I agree. I have same problem with BLD. a 3BLD takes 10 minutes out of my life with an almost guarantee of DNF.. It is so much easier to do some 3x3 and enjoy it


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## mafergut (Mar 1, 2016)

h2f said:


> This is what i got:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Exactly the same that the other page gave as a result. Both are basically the same comm cancelling at the beginning or the end. It was very illustrative to check that yesterday. Not sure why csTimer is not working for me in this case. Thanks!



muchacho said:


> Apart from the DNF the mo5 was 5:09, maybe tomorrow I can get a sub 5 ao12, but just maybe, yesterday's mo6 was 4:54 and I failed today...



So you can't easily roll it because the good times are all at the beginning of the Ao12. Then I might have a chance... if I find some time this afternoon to do 5-6 solves... and they are good  At this point it doesn't really matter much to me who wins but the fact that we both improved a lot just by racing 



MarcelP said:


> I agree. I have same problem with BLD. a 3BLD takes 10 minutes out of my life with an almost guarantee of DNF.. It is so much easier to do some 3x3 and enjoy it



Exactly the same here. With FMC all the more so, as it can take you the whole hour easily. My 3BLD solves are taking right now even more than 10 minutes to rescramble the cube every time. So it's like 1 hour for the 3 attempts at WC. 3 DNFs two weeks in a row. Maybe this week I can have my 1st success but I doubt it. Maybe I should just forget about OP and M2 and go directly to full comms, maybe the rescrambles are more beautiful that way, if not any faster


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## h2f (Mar 1, 2016)

Looks like cstimer is decent as insertion finder.


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## mafergut (Mar 1, 2016)

h2f said:


> Looks like cstimer is decent as insertion finder.



Got what the problem was. It's the secure HTTP version of csTimer. I loaded the HTTP one and there the Insertion Finder works. I assume that the javascript or whatever code that implements the finder is deemed insecure and hence blocked in the secure site. Not sure if that makes sense. Anyway I will ask in the csTimer thread.


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## h2f (Mar 1, 2016)

Some skewb example solves. Sorry for voice quality but my lapotop is not good to record voice.


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## Jason Green (Mar 1, 2016)

Thanks for the 5x5 help everyone! I don't use the "compatible" parity alg right now on 4x4 but might switch.

Nice PB David, almost the same as mine which I have not improved for a while.


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## mark49152 (Mar 1, 2016)

MarcelP said:


> I agree. I have same problem with BLD. a 3BLD takes 10 minutes out of my life with an almost guarantee of DNF.. It is so much easier to do some 3x3 and enjoy it


The difference is that FMC will always take an hour. With a bit of practice, you'll find that in no time 3BLD is only taking 2 minutes out of your life .


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## muchacho (Mar 1, 2016)

Jason Green said:


> Nice PB David, almost the same as mine which I have not improved for a while.


Thanks, I'd prefer to improve the ao100, but I keep getting some very bad solves too frequently for that.



mafergut said:


> So you can't easily roll it because the good times are all at the beginning of the Ao12. Then I might have a chance... if I find some time this afternoon to do 5-6 solves... and they are good  At this point it doesn't really matter much to me who wins but the fact that we both improved a lot just by racing


Yeah, if not racing I don't think I would have improved as much even if doing the same amount of solves (and I would probably have skipped some days).


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## earth2dan (Mar 1, 2016)

Jason Green said:


> Ok, I have a noob question. Since I don't even have a 5x5 yet I have not tried to learn it. A co-worker moved into a cube (haha) near mine and we got talking about cubes because of my cube lanyard I got at my first contest. She loves cubes, and she solves them but never got into speed solving (I'll try to correct that). Anyway, she is going to bring in her 5x5 sometime, so I'd like to be able to solve it.
> 
> My question is, should I be able to muddle my way through most of it given I know Hoya for 4x4? I figure I would have to look up the OLL parity, and I guess there is no PLL parity (that's cool I didn't even know that!). I'm not sure how different the edge building is. I watched a video or two but haven't found a good one.
> 
> ...



I really enjoy 5x5. Next to 3x3 it's fast become one of my favourite puzzles. I would recommend the Yuxin, or the new MoYu BoChuang. They're both affordable and they're both excellent. I'm still not sure which one I like best. Out of the box the Yuxin was the clear winner, but after setting up the BoChuang it's a tough call.

I've only ever learned one algorithm for 5x5. I use one from Sarah's cubing site for dealing with the last edge. Basically I found that I can always reduce it down to one edge with the simple slice, edge flip, slice back method. This is the alg I use, I found it easy to remember and follow while executing because it has a nice flow. http://sarah.cubing.net/5x5x5/l2e#alg/5l2e5

My global average is about 3:05 now. Still not very fast, but steadily improving with practice. Here's Cyoubx's video series on 5x5. Following some of his tips helped me shave a lot of time of my solves early on https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEEXkFtTfXA

Crazybad's video is good too. I met him last year when he was in Winnipeg. We hung out and solved puzzles at his hotel for a couple hours


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## mafergut (Mar 1, 2016)

h2f said:


> Some skewb example solves. Sorry for voice quality but my lapotop is not good to record voice.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rz4WzPrgIrc



Voice was good enough. I think you were saying adjacent corners when you meant opposite a couple times but the video was very nice and your explanations very easy to follow. I just discovered that when I have a corner with the "cross" color facing up I usually rotate it twice through the bottom instead of just once over the top in the opposite direction, so I have learned something useful now. From your explanations I have come to the conclusion that there is really no magic, just maybe I need more solves with unlimited inspection to try and make sure I not only choose the better face but also the optimal corner placing order but, other than that I think I do almost all the things the same during "1st layer". It's just a question of more practise to see where that dang last corner ends up after inserting the others and maybe start learning intermediate. I also need to work on my skewb fingertricks as I still find it a very cumbersome puzzle to turn. My hedgeslammer is horrible (not that my sledgehammer is any good either).

Thanks a lot for the video.



mark49152 said:


> The difference is that FMC will always take an hour. With a bit of practice, you'll find that in no time 3BLD is only taking 2 minutes out of your life .



Well, I would say after A LOT of practice it will just take 2 minutes. Before that I'm sure I'll have to spend months getting 5-6 minute solves, I'd say. The good thing about FMC is that, at home, you can put the solve down and come back later while in 3BLD (or 7x7 or whatever event that takes some minutes per solve) you have to do it all in one sitting. One of the reasons I have waited so much to start solving big cubes. First time I tried to solve a 5x5 it took like 20 minutes. Now times are becoming more manageable (but still so bad).


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## Selkie (Mar 1, 2016)

So my pair of GuoGuan YueXiao's arrived from the UK cube store whilst I still await my mammoth Cubicle order to arrive.

Early verdict ... Lives up to the hype and easily eclipses any cube I have every solved with before!!

Some tall claim but let me qualify the first reason. My main whilst learning most of my algorithms was the Dayan LingYun. It was quickly replaced with a Guhong and later a Lubix Zhanchi was my main cube for years. However when I learned my OLLs and PLLs it was the LingYun and I learned my algs with the forgiveness and traits of the LingYun. The main property of which was little turn resistance to corner cutting and no real adverse effect to being held tightly as I do with cubes. I have never found another cube that offers less resistance to my turning style until ... 20 minutes ago!

Lots of reports of it feeling light, which it does not to me though my main is a Gans 356 v1 which is light anyway. It feels so smooth to turn, almost Guhong smooth. I have not bought many cubes in the last two years so cannot compare it to others.

I will try and get a nice average on it once I have finished uploading a 4:23.x 6x6 Mo3


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## Selkie (Mar 1, 2016)

6x6 Looking promising for Exeter in April. never made mean cutoff which is 5 minutes. But feel this is an event I could maybe get to sub 4 minute:-

Mean of 3: 4:23.79
1. 4:20.71 3u2 R2 F L f' 3u' l2 d 3u' 3f2 L2 f2 B' 3r' U 3u' f' B L' u2 L D' f' r2 B r2 B' u' 3r l r2 B d' L' U' d' F 3r F2 b' 3f2 B 3r2 f2 B2 b2 u d2 B 3u L 3r2 F L' 3r b2 L' 3r D2 b' d' r2 b L' r D' 3r' D L' r u' f2 b' 3f' 3u2 L2 f U2 u2 3r2 
2. 4:18.17 R' b2 u2 b R2 3u2 U D r' u2 3f' f B d' 3r2 u R2 u2 F b l U R2 u' B2 l B' F' 3u' f' u' f2 D U 3f B d2 3r 3f' L2 3f r2 L' l 3r2 R D L' 3f' l D' d' L' U2 3u' D B2 U u B2 3r' L' b U B' 3u 3r' R l U B' l' 3u f2 3f' d R2 3r d2 L2 
3. 4:32.48 B u' b' D' B l u B L' d' 3u' r2 f2 U' 3u2 R' F' U 3r d' 3u l' D2 u d' l b' 3f2 f l' b 3f2 3u' 3r2 b' f' l 3u2 F2 f' 3f2 R' 3u 3r2 r2 3f 3u R2 3u2 f' u' F2 U' L2 u 3u' r' 3u' L 3u' u' R 3r' U r2 d2 u 3f' u2 3r d F b' l2 3f' 3r2 U' f' 3u' U


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## earth2dan (Mar 1, 2016)

Very nice 6x6 solves! I have yet to break the 6 minute mark :/

I also have a YueXiao on order and am really looking forward to it. Your first impressions are encouraging


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## Shaky Hands (Mar 1, 2016)

Good work Chris. I'd be vaping after a 6x6 solve too.


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## Jason Green (Mar 1, 2016)

I ordered a ShengShou 5x5 just because it was $8 on Amazon and will be here in two days.  I did not want to spend $25 on one yet, but maybe I'll regret it.


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## mafergut (Mar 1, 2016)

Jason Green said:


> I ordered a ShengShou 5x5 just because it was $8 on Amazon and will be here in two days.  I did not want to spend $25 on one yet, but maybe I'll regret it.



I'd gone directly to a Yuxin or, at least a Cyclone Boys.
I'm trying to make the same choice with 6x6 and 7x7 but Moyus are sooo expensive and Shengshous are so meh...


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## muchacho (Mar 1, 2016)

I ordered a Yuxin 5x5 almost 3 weeks ago from fasttech (they were on holiday then), probably it will not arrive in another 2-3 weeks. But it cost me less than $13.



h2f said:


> Some skewb example solves.


Thanks!


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## Selkie (Mar 1, 2016)

Jason Green said:


> I ordered a ShengShou 5x5 just because it was $8 on Amazon and will be here in two days.  I did not want to spend $25 on one yet, but maybe I'll regret it.



Nothing wrong with the ShengShou, was my main 5x5 for a few years. Onlt stopped being when I got the Moyu Aochuang, then theHuachuang and of course the Yuxin is main since I got that last month. So many new puzzles come out it is impossible to keep up. All the great 5x5's and now I want a Moyu BoChuang as I hear they are great 

Edit: Nothing wrong with them when they are broken in but the SS does take some solves to become fast.


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## MarcelP (Mar 1, 2016)

mafergut said:


> I'd gone directly to a Yuxin or, at least a Cyclone Boys.
> I'm trying to make the same choice with 6x6 and 7x7 but Moyus are sooo expensive and Shengshous are so meh...


Me too. The 5x5 SS is horrible compared to them. But if you never tried a 5x5 I guess it is allright. The Yuxin is so much smoother and less lockier. And not a lot more expensive.


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## MarcelP (Mar 1, 2016)

h2f said:


> Some skewb example solves. Sorry for voice quality but my lapotop is not good to record voice.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rz4WzPrgIrc



Thanks! That makes a lot sence.



Selkie said:


> Early verdict ... Lives up to the hype and easily eclipses any cube I have every solved with before!!



I felt the same way too the first day. But I did not get my normal times with it so I was soon back to Gans 356 V1. And even after many solves I feel the same. It's not going to be my main.


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## earth2dan (Mar 1, 2016)

Jason Green said:


> I ordered a ShengShou 5x5 just because it was $8 on Amazon and will be here in two days.  I did not want to spend $25 on one yet, but maybe I'll regret it.



You'll only regret it if you buy another 5x5 right away. I used my old SS for about a year. Then I spent a weekend with my dremel and a file modding it and it got much much better. Then I got an AoChuang which instantly replaced it. Now I bounce between my BoChuang, Yuxin, and Cyclone Boys. The Cyclone Boys isn't as good as the BoChuang or Yuxin, but its stickerless colours are soooo good I keep coming back for more  I wish every puzzle company would use Cyclone Boys' stickerless colours.


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## mafergut (Mar 1, 2016)

Not gonna quote everything because lately my posts become too big 

@Chris: Nice 6x6 solves. You make me want to buy a 6x6 and not a Shengshou  Really need some advice here, if you all have not already realized by my mentioning this like 4 times already 

@Jason: I forgot to mention that, if it is the new Shengshou (Wind 5x5?) it is a whole lot better than the old one. Just not on par with Yuxin or BoChuang, maybe not even with CB.

@earth2dan: I also love their stickerless shades. I have a stickerless CB 2x2 and even though it catches considerably I always have it in my pocket to solve casually because I love the shades. And, knowing that, can you imagine that I bought my CB 5x5 in black with those really dull stickers? Yeah, I cannot understand it either.

@David: did you order the Yuxin 5x5 in stickerless? Maybe I can correct my mistake with the CB 5x5 by buying the Yuxin in stickerless. The shades are probably not as bright as CBs but I think they are nice enough. Anybody can validate this assumption?

Also: As they are delayed in posting WC09 scrambles I decided to do another 5 solves with csTimer scrambles. I started badly, adding my 2nd sup 5:40 in a row after my last solve in the rolling average but then I slowly started to improve. I think one week between one 6-solve session and another was too much and I was a bit rusty. Here it is:

*Ao12: 4:53.74* - Time List: 4:57.48, 4:51.56+, 4:45.89, 4:34.05, 4:56.89, 4:38.89, (5:48.36), 5:40.25, 4:56.79, 4:53.00, 4:42.54, (4:25.56)

In the last solve after orienting edges I had also all corners oriented & permuted correctly and only edges needed permutation. Sadly I had to break all that to continue with my process of EP, CP & CO. A pity. It would have been sub-4 had I known some EPLL algs that don't affect corners.

EDIT: Like this 3-edge cycle that leaves corners untouched: R' U' R U' R U R2' U R U' R U' R' U2


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## muchacho (Mar 1, 2016)

mafergut said:


> @David: did you order the Yuxin 5x5 in stickerless? Maybe I can correct my mistake with the CB 5x5 by buying the Yuxin in stickerless. The shades are probably not as bright as CBs but I think they are nice enough. Anybody can validate this assumption?



I bought the Yuxin 4x4 in stickerless, and I can't tell its green and yellow apart (but that's maybe just me), so then since I think the stickerless 5x5 would have the same colors I bought the 5x5 in black (or white, not sure about that).



mafergut said:


> *Ao12: 4:53.74* - Time List: 4:57.48, 4:51.56+, 4:45.89, 4:34.05, 4:56.89, 4:38.89, (5:48.36), 5:40.25, 4:56.79, 4:53.00, 4:42.54, (4:25.56)



Congrats, you won! I'll try to get the silver medal tomorrow or next day.


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## mafergut (Mar 1, 2016)

muchacho said:


> Congrats, you won! I'll try to get the silver medal tomorrow or next day.



You got a 5:00.xx earlier today so, who won is just a technicality. Anyway, it's been a lot of fun to push myself to try and improve.

I think sub-4 is attainable. Faster than that I don't really think I can get. What does the event comparison say about 3x3 vs mega? I'd say around 1 minute at Mega can be compared to sub-8 at 3x3? So Mega times are like 7-8 * 3x3 times or so? So, 20 sec at 3x3 would compare to 2:20 - 2:40 at Mega. Wow! That's too fast for me, even with advanced LL.


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## muchacho (Mar 1, 2016)

4 minutes at Mega would be like 30 seconds at 3x3, 3 minutes would translate to 20 seconds at 3x3 (http://www.terabo.net/cubjectives/), and not much people practice Mega, so I guess 4 minutes it's too easy, I'll aim to 3:00 or 2:30, but not now, I'll stop once I get the sub-5 ao12.


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## earth2dan (Mar 1, 2016)

mafergut said:


> @David: did you order the Yuxin 5x5 in stickerless? Maybe I can correct my mistake with the CB 5x5 by buying the Yuxin in stickerless. The shades are probably not as bright as CBs but I think they are nice enough. Anybody can validate this assumption?



I have the stickerless Yuxin 5x5 and I wish I'd ordered the black one and just restickered it with the shades I like. The red/orange have a decent contrast when you checkerboard them, but they're horrible for me while solving. I mix up red and orange all the time during edge pairing and F2L and it drives me crazy. The Yuxin shades have got nothing on the stickerless CB 5x5. If you're not averse to restickering a 5x5, i'd recommend the black one with your own stickers on it.


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## mafergut (Mar 1, 2016)

muchacho said:


> 4 minutes at Mega would be like 30 seconds at 3x3, 3 minutes would translate to 20 seconds at 3x3 (http://www.terabo.net/cubjectives/), and not much people practice Mega, so I guess 4 minutes it's too easy, I'll aim to 3:00 or 2:30, but not now, I'll stop once I get the sub-5 ao12.



Yeah, I don't think I will put a lot of effort into Mega right now. There are so many events I do badly at that it's difficult at times to choose one to concentrate on. I would like first to get significantly better at 4x4 and 5x5 and also start getting into 3BLD. Those are the ones I want to focus on right now. Others like Mega, Pyra, Skewb, SQ-1 I will just be happy to do the WC solves plus some warm-up and see if I can improve even if slightly with that.



earth2dan said:


> I have the stickerless Yuxin 5x5 and I wish I'd ordered the black one and just restickered it with the shades I like. The red/orange have a decent contrast when you checkerboard them, but they're horrible for me while solving. I mix up red and orange all the time during edge pairing and F2L and it drives me crazy. The Yuxin shades have got nothing on the stickerless CB 5x5. If you're not averse to restickering a 5x5, i'd recommend the black one with your own stickers on it.



What a shame! I will stick to my CB for the time being then.


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## earth2dan (Mar 1, 2016)

mafergut said:


> What a shame! I will stick to my CB for the time being then.



For sure. Even though the Yuxin and BoChuang feel and turn nicer, I consistently get slightly better times with the Cyclone Boys. In fact, all my 5x5 PB's were set with the Cyclone Boys


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## newtonbase (Mar 1, 2016)

Bizarre AO12. First 5 solves gave a sup 40s average, last 5 were sup 38s but got a 29.44s AO5 PB in the middle.


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## muchacho (Mar 1, 2016)

So something like this:
50 46 42 38 36 27 27 27 36 38 42 46

5 solves to warm up, 3 solves in the zone, and already too tired for the last 4 solves looks like some of my ao12 

Congrats for the PB!


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## Shaky Hands (Mar 1, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> Bizarre AO12. First 5 solves gave a sup 40s average, last 5 were sup 38s but got a 29.44s AO5 PB in the middle.



That is certainly bizarre. Congratulations anyway!


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## newtonbase (Mar 1, 2016)

muchacho said:


> So something like this:
> 50 46 42 38 36 27 27 27 36 38 42 46
> 
> 5 solves to warm up, 3 solves in the zone, and already too tired for the last 4 solves looks like some of my ao12
> ...



Not far off. They ranged from 25 to 54 seconds. Only 2nd sub 30s. I knew the 54s would be bad when I spotted my 5th F2L pair.


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## newtonbase (Mar 1, 2016)

It was all budget cubes in the delivery today. 2 black Thunderclaps. One to replace one I gave away at Manchester and another so I have enough for multi. Got a stickerless one too to see what they were like and it's nice. I like the solid shades. 
There were also 3 stickerless Guanlongs which I got as giveaways for new cubers. They are almost pastel shades and pink replaces red. I'm not convinced by them but they'll do. 
I got a stickerless Newisland Lightning the other day. I've heard it's meant to be the same as the Thunderclap but there were differences in the centre piece shapes at least. Felt more like a Yuxin Fire to me. It's OK but I don't plan on using it much. Only cost me 49p.


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## Selkie (Mar 1, 2016)

earth2dan said:


> Very nice 6x6 solves! I have yet to break the 6 minute mark :/





Shaky Hands said:


> Good work Chris. I'd be vaping after a 6x6 solve too.





mafergut said:


> @Chris: Nice 6x6 solves.



Thanks all. Averaged about 4:50 a week a ago but credit had to go to Logiqx(Michaels) thread on how over 40s do in comp, seemed it was the best chance I have of doing well. Said it was very motivating :tu



newtonbase said:


> Bizarre AO12. First 5 solves gave a sup 40s average, last 5 were sup 38s but got a 29.44s AO5 PB in the middle.



I have always seen positives in very inconsistent averages. Inconsistency within the same average usually involves trying to change things and thinking a lot and none of that is a bad thing 



newtonbase said:


> It was all budget cubes in the delivery today. 2 black Thunderclaps. One to replace one I gave away at Manchester and another so I have enough for multi. Got a stickerless one too to see what they were like and it's nice. I like the solid shades.



Love the idea of gifts for new cubers. I have an old old friend on Facebook who I haven't seen for years who commented on my 8.23 PB the other day, I sent her the cube I used as she was so motivated to start learning. I have a few spare cubes I should put to such a good cause. I cannot wait for my new order from Cubicle and to sample some of the 3x3s I have missed out on over the last year or so.

@Marcel

Mate, I watched you video on the GuaGuan corner mod so decided to take hostage of one of my wife's finest nail boards. Have to say what a huge difference. Awesome stuff (y)


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## Jason Green (Mar 2, 2016)

I just watched your sub 2 5x5 Chris. Pretty cool!

I got at 2:46 on my 4x4 haha. It was all luck too, I had like 3 edges paired after my bottom edges, and no parity. I just kind of wanna get good at other cubes, but I don't have the burn inside like I do for 3x3. Not sure why, since as you said at my age the bigger cubes probably give me better odds of competing. Probably as I start getting non embarrassing times I'll get more motivated.


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## h2f (Mar 2, 2016)

@Chris, Your solves in 5x5 and 6x6 are awsome. I wish I was sub-20 I might practice big cubes more.


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## mark49152 (Mar 2, 2016)

@Chris: Yeah nice solves. I find it more motivational to watch people a bit faster but reachable for me, rather than the fast guys I'll never catch 

Nice to see so much attention on big cubes and other puzzles on this thread recently. I admit I'm actually quite disinterested in 3x3 these days! 

Quick 4BLD update for anyone interested: my success rate has improved a bit and my times are coming in consistently shorter the last couple of days. Of the last 14 successes, 4 were sub-10, 7 were 10:x and 3 have been 11:x. I'm really looking forward to competing at Exeter. (My target is sub-12:13 ).


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## h2f (Mar 2, 2016)

You are improving Mark in 4bld. My success rate in 3bld is also higher and reach 66=70% which is fair good. Now I'm adding a lot of adv M2 tricks and comms for edges.


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## Selkie (Mar 2, 2016)

@Jason, @Grzegorz, @Mark:-

Thank you very much. Improvement in bigger cubes has come very slowly and whilst I have improved recently I really do need to concentrate and follow certain patterns when I solve 5x5 and up. I have to concentrate on the four blue edges first, I have to count edges paired in my head and I have to concentrate very hard on look ahead. Failure to do any of these things results in bad times.

To be fair Mark I have always been an all rounder, though I could solve the 3x3 in the early 80s I never did solve my Rubiks Revenge or Rubiks Professor back then so when I started speed cubing I was eager to learn how to solve these puzzles. I am really motivated by 6x6 at the moment as it seems it might be the one puzzle I can rank highest of over 40s but it is going to take a lot of work to drop another 30 seconds. Conversely I have lost interest in 7x7 and that is for a couple of reasons. Firstly I find the puzzle more and more cumbersome as I get older and secondly whilst the mean cut was 7 minutes in UK, I could work towards that but at 6 minutes I would need a LOT of practice to attain that even if I ever could. I think I will take your advise, once I hace Exeter comp under my belt, and do just 6x6 for 2 weeks (apart from weekly comp in forum which I have just started again)

Your 4BLD times look to be improving greatly. BLD still is a huge nemesis for me and I doubt I will have the confidence to solve at Exeter but perhaps we can catch up then and you can give me some tips :tu



Edit, I said I would do an average on the new GuoGuan YueXiao, not quite sub 14 but close. The cube was brand new yesterday and only has about 100 solves and of course I have done Marcel's excellent corner mod.



Spoiler











In spoiler tags for those who have seen enough of my averages by now


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## newtonbase (Mar 2, 2016)

3 sub 2mins solves from 4 in 4x4. The other was a fast DNF. They were sandwiched by poor solves so no decent average but as I only got my 2nd sub 2 recently I'm pleased with the progress.


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## kbrune (Mar 3, 2016)

So this is where the old guys hang out now? I remember seeing this thread posted by Marcel when I first became a member on here.


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## Jason Green (Mar 3, 2016)

kbrune said:


> So this is where the old guys hang out now? I remember seeing this thread posted by Marcel when I first became a member on here.


Here we are.


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## h2f (Mar 3, 2016)

Selkie said:


> In spoiler tags for those who have seen enough of my averages by now



Not to many. No need to spoil it.


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## MarcelP (Mar 3, 2016)

kbrune said:


> So this is where the old guys hang out now? I remember seeing this thread posted by Marcel when I first became a member on here.



And I remember posting it. Boy how I improved ... LOL Official sub 20 seemed totally unreachable for me then...



Selkie said:


> @Marcel
> 
> Mate, I watched you video on the GuaGuan corner mod so decided to take hostage of one of my wife's finest nail boards. Have to say what a huge difference. Awesome stuff (y)



Yeah, without this mod the cube locks like crazy.. Lately I have been using the X-man Tornado (QiYi Wind). I must say, it is growing on me. It kinda locked a lot in the beginning, but after many solves it has started to be much less lockier. My guess is that it comes with excess plastic which has to be broken in. It is a very fast cube because it is very hard plastic. I have been slight over lube it to make is more gummy. I do get about same times as with my Gans 356 V1.


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## mafergut (Mar 3, 2016)

MarcelP said:


> Yeah, without this mod the cube locks like crazy.. Lately I have been using the X-man Tornado (QiYi Wind). I must say, it is growing on me. It kinda locked a lot in the beginning, but after many solves it has started to be much less lockier. My guess is that it comes with excess plastic which has to be broken in. It is a very fast cube because it is very hard plastic. I have been slight over lube it to make is more gummy. I do get about same times as with my Gans 356 V1.



I received my package from zcube yesterday and I haven't opened it yet. I will try to do an unboxing video, even though almost everything in there has already been unboxed by you (Yuexiao, Tornado). I'm sure my video will not be as nice as yours but it will be fun to do it. I cannot promise the box will be still closed, though  I am desperately wanting to take a peek at the contents.


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## Selkie (Mar 3, 2016)

MarcelP said:


> Yeah, without this mod the cube locks like crazy.. Lately I have been using the X-man Tornado (QiYi Wind). I must say, it is growing on me. It kinda locked a lot in the beginning, but after many solves it has started to be much less lockier. My guess is that it comes with excess plastic which has to be broken in. It is a very fast cube because it is very hard plastic. I have been slight over lube it to make is more gummy. I do get about same times as with my Gans 356 V1.



Looks like we might have both retired our Gans 356 v1 mains Marcel! I certainly never expected the GuaGuan to live up to all the hype but I switched instantly and even picked up the 356 to look at an alg late last night and it felt very strange. It has been difficult to compare it to much as I have the early MoYu's (Aolong, Aolong v2, HuaLong) etc and the Gans (357, 356 v1, 356 v2). The unboxing of the cubicle order will be interesting as I have the tornado coming, amoung other cubes.

I will be doing another UK order for the MoYu BoChuang which I have heard great things about. Talking of 5x5's, I did look at Hoya and Yau videos last night as I feel I might need to change after comp next month to see much improvement in speed. Whilst Hoya looked great, I found Yau much, much easier to follow which is not surprising as I use Yau for 4x4. Did a few solves at around 3 minutes so will put in some practice later next month to see if it is worth changing.

Edit: Just ordered the Moyu BoChuang 5x5 from UK Cube Store


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## APdRF (Mar 3, 2016)

MarcelP said:


> Yeah, without this mod the cube locks like crazy.. Lately I have been using the X-man Tornado (QiYi Wind). I must say, it is growing on me. It kinda locked a lot in the beginning, but after many solves it has started to be much less lockier. My guess is that it comes with excess plastic which has to be broken in. It is a very fast cube because it is very hard plastic. I have been slight over lube it to make is more gummy. I do get about same times as with my Gans 356 V1.



Exactly, how the mod is done?


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## h2f (Mar 3, 2016)

I had no practice of 3x3 since competition. First ao50 20.37 is very promising because I did crosses on white and yellow. Maybe I'll do another 50.


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## earth2dan (Mar 3, 2016)

Selkie said:


> Looks like we might have both retired our Gans 356 v1 mains


I keep my Gans 356 V1 at the office. It's my main there becuase it's so quiet compared to my other clacky cubes. I'm really eager to get my YueXiao after seeing all these reactions though 



Selkie said:


> Edit: Just ordered the Moyu BoChuang 5x5 from UK Cube Store


The BoChuang is fast becoming my main 5x5. I'm sure you'll love it, but you may need to tension it and break it in before it grows on you. I also recommend breaking it in before you lube it. I've been doing that and I'm starting to think I won't bother lubing it at all. I have a Yuxin as well that I really like (felt great right out of the box), but as noted in an earlier comment it's stickerless and the shades just aren't very nice.


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## kbrune (Mar 3, 2016)

@ Marcel

Lol official sub 20 still seems un reachable for me! My 3x3 times seem to be slowly getting worse now. I'm completely frustrated with it. 

Cool to see how far you've come though!


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## mafergut (Mar 3, 2016)

APdRF said:


> Exactly, how the mod is done?



You can check the video of the Yuexiao corner mod on his Youtube channel. He just rounded off the pointy corners a bit.

Talking about youtube, I couldn't resist more and had to record the unboxing during my lunch time 

Here it is for all of you to have a good laugh again... and a bit of motion sickness. I promise I will never again record an unboxing with "go pro" style head camera and will use a tripod. Also the video is a bit long and boring but I got so carried away...


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## h2f (Mar 3, 2016)

I've just seen it. Great!


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## APdRF (Mar 3, 2016)

mafergut said:


> You can check the video of the Yuexiao corner mod on his Youtube channel. He just rounded off the pointy corners a bit.



Thank you! I'll look it up. And good unboxing


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## mafergut (Mar 3, 2016)

APdRF said:


> Thank you! I'll look it up. And good unboxing



Thanks! And I was able to record the whole video without barely a swear word... well, just one 
Anyway, compared with a professional youtuber like you I did a poor job but it was a lot of fun. I'll probably do more of those.


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## sqAree (Mar 3, 2016)

mafergut said:


> Thanks! And I was able to record the whole video without barely a swear word... well, just one
> Anyway, compared with a professional youtuber like you I did a poor job but it was a lot of fun. I'll probably do more of those.



Lol I once made an unboxing video and your seems so professional compared to mine (not going to send a link here, too embarrassed ).
Will you finally use the YueXiao as your main?
Can you solve a Gigaminx? My SS Giga will arrive next week, I have no clue how to solve it, we can maybe race.


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## Shaky Hands (Mar 3, 2016)

A bit of self-analysis after my first 300 timed 5x5 solves. As I may have said before I've picked up a 5x5 and solved it every now and again, but in the past week or two I've been making more of a concerted effort to do so. In fact I've put in 25+ hours on this now.

Some stats:

*Cubes 1-100*
Best Time: 5m 6s / Worst Time: 9m 51s
Best Ao5: 5m 36s / Best Ao12: 5m 50s / Best Ao25: 5m 57s / Best Ao100: 6m 33s
STDEV: 54.59s
Within UK Hard Cut (5m): 0 cubes
Nearly there (up to 15s out): 4 cubes

*Cubes 101-200*
Best Time: 4m 26s / Worst Time: 8m 16s
Best Ao5: 5m 7s / Best Ao12: 5m 16s / Best Ao25: 5m 30s / Best Ao100: 5m 49s
STDEV: 47.53s
Within UK Hard Cut (5m): 7 cubes
Nearly there (up to 15s out): 16 cubes

*Cubes 201-300*
Best Time: 4m 17s / Worst Time: 8m 28s
Best Ao5: 4m 47s / Best Ao12: 5m 1s / Best Ao25: 5m 7s / Best Ao100: 5m 24s
STDEV: 38.01s
Within UK Hard Cut (5m): 23 cubes
Nearly there (up to 15s out): 19 cubes

All of these were on a Moyu 5x5 except for the final 10 solves (a Yuxin arrived at lunchtime which seems like it has potential.)

For Parity, I just know cases 1-3 and 5 at http://i.imgur.com/wsTqj.png currently. I know case 4 is a mirror of case 3 but I'm not good at auto-mirroring and it took me ages just to learn the mirrored A-perm for 3x3.

Managed to sort out my big cube problems with Ga, Gc, Ja and Na perms. This should help my 4x4 too. Still struggling with Gb, Gd and F but the rest are working OK for me.

Learned free-slicing after solve #50. Times took a small plunge at first but managed to get over it. Occasionally I manage to mess up the centers in the process and get a sup-7m time but this is fairly rare now.

I'm aiming to revisit cyoubx's videos on solving the centers next. He had a lot of good stuff in there ("spaceship", "half-testicle" etc) but I've been focusing on solving intuitively so far to get the hang of the way the different cubies move around.

It's been good learning something new. The practice does show some improvement and hopefully there will be some more to come.

Cheers all.


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## mafergut (Mar 3, 2016)

h2f said:


> I've just seen it. Great!





sqAree said:


> Lol I once made an unboxing video and your seems so professional compared to mine (not going to send a link here, too embarrassed ).
> Will you finally use the YueXiao as your main?
> Can you solve a Gigaminx? My SS Giga will arrive next week, I have no clue how to solve it, we can maybe race.



Thank you both! But Konstantine, you don't have to feel embarrased. I'm sure your video was nice.

Regarding the Yuexiao, it's too soon to know. I will try to do some solves this weekend with both the Yuexiao and Tornado and see if they are any better than my Chilong and Tanglong.

I don't know if I know how to solve the Gigaminx. I will have to try and see. I hope to be able to finish it intuitively without any help but, let's see. I will also try to do a solve this weekend. But the puzzle feels so good for a monster like that. Almost as good as the SS Mega, just a bit heavier but very smooth.


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## Selkie (Mar 3, 2016)

earth2dan said:


> The BoChuang is fast becoming my main 5x5. I'm sure you'll love it, but you may need to tension it and break it in before it grows on you. I also recommend breaking it in before you lube it. I've been doing that and I'm starting to think I won't bother lubing it at all. I have a Yuxin as well that I really like (felt great right out of the box), but as noted in an earlier comment it's stickerless and the shades just aren't very nice.



I'll look forward to receiving mine though my maain Yuxin is going to take some beating 



mafergut said:


> Talking about youtube, I couldn't resist more and had to record the unboxing during my lunch time



Great unboxing video :tu



Shaky Hands said:


> The practice does show some improvement and hopefully there will be some more to come.



Some great analysis there and soem really good improvement


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## earth2dan (Mar 3, 2016)

@Shaky Hands. Nice stats! That's a steady rate of improvement.

The parity case (case 1 in your link) is the only edge case I learned an algorithm for. I usually use the concept for case 3 (slice, flip, slice back) for all my last 4 edges. Though I prefer to use the sledgehammer move for edge flips. If you have parity you can always reduce it to that one edge with this concept. I won't bother learning any new edge algs till I'm faster.

I still have some PLL's that I just 2-look on big cubes  A simple T-Perm to U-Perm is faster and less risky than a clumsy messed up 1-Look alg. I know I still stand to gain a lot more by optimizing my center and edge building than perfecting my 1-Look PLLs.

Glad to see so much big cube love here lately


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## h2f (Mar 3, 2016)

I've made second ao50 - it's worse 21.40 and ao100 a little below my best 20.91.


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## sqAree (Mar 3, 2016)

mafergut said:


> Thank you both! But Konstantine, you don't have to feel embarrased. I'm sure your video was nice.
> 
> Regarding the Yuexiao, it's too soon to know. I will try to do some solves this weekend with both the Yuexiao and Tornado and see if they are any better than my Chilong and Tanglong.
> 
> I don't know if I know how to solve the Gigaminx. I will have to try and see. I hope to be able to finish it intuitively without any help but, let's see. I will also try to do a solve this weekend. But the puzzle feels so good for a monster like that. Almost as good as the SS Mega, just a bit heavier but very smooth.



*Konstantin 
The YueXiao was my new main out of the box. I also used a TangLong before that.
For the Giga, it's similar here, I'll let you know about my first solve once I received it.


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## Selkie (Mar 3, 2016)

h2f said:


> I've made second ao50 - it's worse 21.40 and ao100 a little below my best 20.91.



Nice to see you back in practice on 3x3 after comp, your first sub 20 ao100 cannot be far away 



sqAree said:


> The YueXiao was my new main out of the box.



Exactly the same for me. Even the Gans 356 v1 took me a while before I switched from my Hualong but the GuoGuan is awesome for my turning style and have used it since arrival yesterday. Wonder how good it will feel after breaking in!? Its lovely to have E perms and A perms and algs with D's that do not lock up :tu


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## h2f (Mar 3, 2016)

Selkie said:


> Nice to see you back in practice on 3x3 after comp, your first sub 20 ao100 cannot be far away



Thanks. I hope. I tried to track first pair and I could this in around 30% of solves. I think this can help me...

Nice ao5 in 5x5...


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## Jason Green (Mar 4, 2016)

Some more awesome videos Chris! I like the unboxing video too. You guys are making me want a YueXiao. 

I got my ShengShou 5x5, I like it fine. It reminds me of my CB 4x4 when I first got it. Of course I think this is the first 5x5 I've ever touched. I was able to "muddle through" like I hoped, although the second time I had to go watch the last 4 edge video again because I was lost.  I actually used the same alg for edge parity that I do on 4x4 for OLL parity, but I do not see anyone mention it as an option. I just tried and it worked! That is this one:
Rw U2 Rw F2 r F2 l' U2 l U2 r' U2 r U2 Rw' U2 Rw'

I set a mini goal of getting a sub 18 on cam, and I was able to do it in a couple of nights, so I was excited. Here it is.


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## h2f (Mar 4, 2016)

Nice seventeen. Skips are always welcome.


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## Selkie (Mar 4, 2016)

h2f said:


> Thanks. I hope. I tried to track first pair and I could this in around 30% of solves. I think this can help me...
> 
> Nice ao5 in 5x5...



Tracking pairs is a great habit and one I do not do anywhere near as often as I should. It is something I am starting to work on. Will really help as you get faster :tu

Thanks on the Ao5, practice on 5x5 really paying off but really feel a switch to Yau for 5x5 after next months comp. Only been messing around with Yau and already have a sub 2:10 single, so much promise. I might try and get a sub 2:30 Yau average today 



Jason Green said:


> Some more awesome videos Chris! I like the unboxing video too. You guys are making me want a YueXiao.
> 
> I set a mini goal of getting a sub 18 on cam, and I was able to do it in a couple of nights, so I was excited. Here it is.



Thank you  Trying to keep the camera on for about a third of my solves to keep content coming for the channel. Great thing with this is that I get more and more used to solving on film and sometimes forget its there 

Lovely single Jason and great to set mini goals. People often underestimate having goals albeit bite sized ones. Those with no goals progress slower than those with them


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## Jason Green (Mar 4, 2016)

h2f said:


> Nice seventeen. Skips are always welcome.


For sure, my PBs usually are skips.


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## h2f (Mar 4, 2016)

Selkie said:


> Thanks on the Ao5, practice on 5x5 really paying off but really feel a switch to Yau for 5x5 after next months comp. Only been messing around with Yau and already have a sub 2:10 single, so much promise. I might try and get a sub 2:30 Yau average today



What are the stages? I do yau on 4x4 and I'm comfortable with it but in 5x5 I'm a little confused. Does it go like this:
- first two centers
- 3 or 4 arms of cross on left
- other centers or by half centers method (I use half centers on 4x4)
- tredges
- 3x3
Or something else?


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## muchacho (Mar 4, 2016)

Jason Green said:


> I set a mini goal of getting a sub 18 on cam, and I was able to do it in a couple of nights, so I was excited. Here it is.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0zqDU46eRTU


Good job!

I should try to film some solves at least to see where I can improve, since once I solve a cube I can barely remember what I did, sometimes not even which alg I used or how I started the first block.


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## mark49152 (Mar 4, 2016)

Shaky Hands said:


> A bit of self-analysis after my first 300 timed 5x5 solves.


Hey that is awesome! That's a lot of serious work, congrats, and it's nice to see this kind of analysis.

For parity, cases 1&2 are the only ones for which it's important to learn an alg (at our level). Most everything else can be either solved or reduced to one of these, intuitively and efficiently. I did a move count analysis of all the cases a year or so ago - it's somewhere way back in this thread .

For LL, I admit to using mostly 2-look on big cubes, except for a few cases I know I can do easily. It's on my to-do list to practise LL algs on 5x5.

What are you doing for F4E? Yau, Hoya, reduction?


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## Selkie (Mar 4, 2016)

h2f said:


> What are the stages? I do yau on 4x4 and I'm comfortable with it but in 5x5 I'm a little confused. Does it go like this:
> - first two centers
> - 3 or 4 arms of cross on left
> - other centers or by half centers method (I use half centers on 4x4)
> ...



Very close Grzegorz, yes. There are some great sample solves by Rob Yau himself in this video:-






In reality I solve by:-

First two centers
First Three Cross Edges
Last Four Centers
I then solve last cross edge using AVG (Or the same method you use for fast four edges in 5x5 reduction
Free slice next four edges (The more F2L edges you do at this stage the better lookahead in 3x3 stage)
Correct centres and use same method for last four edges again

Sounds complicated but actually isn't. I like the way Rob Yau solves last cross edges before last four centres and saves it but this is going to take some practice


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## h2f (Mar 4, 2016)

Strange - I can see Chris post on the main page but not in here.

@Jason - not only yours pb's are skips. What's your best full step single? Main is 13.86 or something.


----------



## mafergut (Mar 4, 2016)

@all: Thanks for your encouragement but I prevent you. This might make me actually upload more videos in the future 

@earth2dan: I only use the 1st "parity" alg in 5x5, just as you. I just reduce the others to this case by slicing and "sledgeing"  Still too slow to feel learning more algs is worth it. Well, the other day I also learned inadvertently a variant of the 4x4 PLL parity (maybe from Jason?) than in 5x5 is also useful for one of the cases with just 2 tredges left (it exchanges the two wings but not the middle piece).

@sqAree: Sorry for making a mistake with your name, Konstantin. Looking forward to hearing from your experience with the Giga. Yesterday I practiced a bit with the Yuexiao (and Tornado) but nothing conclusive yet. Yesterday my times were horrible with both of them but also with my main so it was just me, not the cubes. Liking more the Yuexiao than the Tornado for now but I'll have to wait until I break both in. Anyway, for now my mains are still the Tanglong and Chilong.

@Chris & Jason: Nice videos. I can't stop watching your solves. Nice reaction to the sub-18, Jason! I'll have to try and capture at least a decent single on video one of these days.

I also did some solves with the Guansu but I find it a bit stiff and corner cutting is noticeably worse than in my Aosu. Maybe it still needs more breaking in or it is just a bit too tight but I don't want to mess up with the tensions yet. I'm getting worse times, that's for sure, even though the outer layers are becoming faster with just a few solves.


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## Selkie (Mar 4, 2016)

h2f said:


> Strange - I can see Chris post on the main page but not in here..



Same for me but it is here now. I am going to stand corrected on Rob steps,, I guess I was using some pseudo Yau5. That will teach me to not read the instructions  Just tried a couple of solves with Robs method as described in his video which is:-

First 2 Centers
First Three Cross edges in place
Last cross edge stored on RHS
Last 4 Centers
Freeslice next four edges (At least 2 F2L edges)
Solve 2 F2L slots
Last 2 four edges using 3 cycles or AVG style (Used to love Arnaud van Galens 5x5 method, which I had persevered)
Rest of reduction



muchacho said:


> Good job!
> 
> I should try to film some solves at least to see where I can improve, since once I solve a cube I can barely remember what I did, sometimes not even which alg I used or how I started the first block.



Taking videos for this reason is why I started filing solves! watching your own solves back is invaluable and really helps with self constructive criticism


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## h2f (Mar 4, 2016)

Selkie said:


> Same for me but it is here now. I am going to stand corrected on Rob steps,, I guess I was using some pseudo Yau5. That will teach me to not read the instructions  Just tried a couple of solves with Robs method as described in his video which is:-
> 
> First 2 Centers
> First Three Cross edges in place
> ...



Thanks. I must correct centers step and last four edges than. I was watching Rob's example solves yesterday but few weeks ago I've watched tutorial of a one guy who did it like I wrote. I found doing centers with non-half centers step a little better for me. Others step are clear for me. I do a practice session with it...

I red your earlier post and I think I was trying something very similiar.


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## Shaky Hands (Mar 4, 2016)

Selkie said:


> Some great analysis there and soem really good improvement





earth2dan said:


> @Shaky Hands. Nice stats! That's a steady rate of improvement.



Thanks!



mark49152 said:


> Hey that is awesome! That's a lot of serious work, congrats, and it's nice to see this kind of analysis.
> 
> For parity, cases 1&2 are the only ones for which it's important to learn an alg (at our level). Most everything else can be either solved or reduced to one of these, intuitively and efficiently. I did a move count analysis of all the cases a year or so ago - it's somewhere way back in this thread .
> 
> ...



Yes, this certainly took a while!

Re: parities, I found case 3 really easy to learn from its similarity to 4x4 so added it to my "arsenal". Case 5 is very similar to Case 3 so was easy to pick up. I knew Case 6 for about an hour and then it vanished from memory.

Just using reduction for F4E right now (presuming that means Final 4 Edges; my 5x5 acronyms might not be up-to-speed!)


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## mark49152 (Mar 4, 2016)

Shaky Hands said:


> Re: parities, I found case 3 really easy to learn from its similarity to 4x4 so added it to my "arsenal". Case 5 is very similar to Case 3 so was easy to pick up. I knew Case 6 for about an hour and then it vanished from memory.
> 
> Just using reduction for F4E right now (presuming that means Final 4 Edges; my 5x5 acronyms might not be up-to-speed!)


Yeah I would put 3-5 in the "intuitive" category since they are just slice-flip-slice. Actually since I use chain pairing I very rarely end up with anything other than 1-4 anyway, but still I do recall that they were easily reduced.

F4E mean first 4 edges, L4E last 4. Generally that's the difference between the methods. After F4E and finishing centres, all three methods are pretty similar and you have the same choice of how to do the rest of the edges.

I use Hoya and chain (AvG) pairing for the simple reason that lookahead is much easier, and I wanted a method that would minimise pauses and give me rapid improvements. Once competent with that I can incrementally extend it with more advanced techniques like freeslice.


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## EvilGnome6 (Mar 4, 2016)

AZCubing Winter 2016 is tomorrow. 

>insert emoticon of me flailing in panic mode here<

https://www.cubingusa.com/AZCubingWinter2016/index.php


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## mafergut (Mar 4, 2016)

EvilGnome6 said:


> AZCubing Winter 2016 is tomorrow.
> 
> >insert emoticon of me flailing in panic mode here<
> 
> https://www.cubingusa.com/AZCubingWinter2016/index.php



C'mon! You can do it! You're our big cube hero!

Also, I had to loosen up a quarter of a screw turn all the sides in my Guansu. It improved a bit but, it is either not half as good as I had been told or it still needs a lot of breaking in. I still feel it's much more rigid than my AoSu, even though turning is a bit lighter, which I like.


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## muchacho (Mar 4, 2016)

I guess the panic is because you are organizing it, right Mike? Good luck!


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## Selkie (Mar 4, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> I use Hoya and chain (AvG) pairing for the simple reason that lookahead is much easier, and I wanted a method that would minimise pauses and give me rapid improvements.



I do love AVG method and was lucky enough to sit with Arnaud van Galen at comp a few years ago whilst he explained it. I would like to try chain method in combination with Yau after Exeter. AVG edge pairing is so optimised for move count.


EvilGnome6 said:


> AZCubing Winter 2016 is tomorrow.
> 
> >insert emoticon of me flailing in panic mode here<
> 
> https://www.cubingusa.com/AZCubingWinter2016/index.php



Best of luck :tu


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## MarcelP (Mar 4, 2016)

I am very pleased with this average. Since I hardly practice at all, when I do practice I only do slow solving. It appears I am keeping my speed. These are the first 12 solves of the day:


Spoiler: Ao12 18.4 with 0.8 standard dev.



1. 18.34 D R' L2 D2 B' U2 L2 F2 L' R2 B2 D R F2 D F' R2 D U' B2 F U R2 B2 F2
2. 18.94 L' F U L2 R2 D2 U L' D' B U2 L2 F D' F' B' U B' L2 U2 R U' L2 F B2
3. 18.50 R L2 F2 D' F' D R2 L' B' F2 R2 B2 R2 B U2 L2 F L2 F2 R U' D' L2 U' L2
4. 17.15 F B' L2 D2 B' U' B D B2 F' R B D' F2 D U2 R2 L' D' F2 R2 U2 L U2 B'
5. 18.79 U B' R F D R U2 L' U D R' D L2 D2 F' D' B' F2 U2 F L' U2 L' R' F2
6. 18.44 D L B2 F' L' B U R' B F L2 U' R2 U2 D2 B2 L' F2 R' U2 D' R' L D' B2
7. 18.89 L2 U' D2 B' L U2 D' B' F2 D' R U B U2 L F' B' U' R L2 D' L' B' R' B'
8. 18.87 D2 R L U L' D2 U2 L' D R' U2 L U2 L2 B F' D' U' R D' F' U2 R' B2 U
9. 17.14 R' D' U2 F2 B D2 B2 R D' B' D L2 D2 B2 L' D F' L' R2 D2 U' B2 L D2 F'
10. 19.77 F2 L2 F' L' F L2 U2 B' L' R D' R L U' L' D R U2 L2 U F' R2 B2 D' L2
11. 16.96 B U2 D2 L D' U' L B R2 F R B2 U' B F' D' B' D' B' D' U B' R F' D'
12. 20.40 R D R2 L B' F2 R2 B2 D' L D B2 R D U L2 U2 L' F2 U R L2 B2 L' B
// I thought, let's not mess that 12th solve up.. so I did..


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## mark49152 (Mar 4, 2016)

I bought a camera and videoed a few 4x4 solves today. The room was cold and my average was a few seconds down, but here's the best of the bunch. I'm averaging about 1:12-13 at the moment.

https://youtu.be/9SQYcGdd41U


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## MarcelP (Mar 4, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> I bought a camera and videoed a few 4x4 solves today. The room was cold and my average was a few seconds down, but here's the best of the bunch. I'm averaging about 1:12-13 at the moment.
> 
> https://youtu.be/9SQYcGdd41U


That was awesome. With the fumbling in the beginning, and the pauses, and almost messed up OLL (had to correct with left hand) and parity.. you still managed to get a 1.03! I think sub 1 will be your average soon  Btw, scrambling is half the video.. LOL.

Btw, I need a new camera. What did you buy and for how much?


----------



## newtonbase (Mar 4, 2016)

Finished a 3BLD 2:07 which would have been a big PB. It was a completely rescrambled cube but the memo was good and it was done with people around so bodes well.


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## mafergut (Mar 4, 2016)

MarcelP said:


> I am very pleased with this average. Since I hardly practice at all, when I do practice I only do slow solving. It appears I am keeping my speed. These are the first 12 solves of the day:



So consistent. I did today the Ao12 for the race to sub 20 and I still get too many sup-20 solves. I already graduated some weeks ago but it's good practice and I'm not even remotely close to ready to go to the race for sub-15, so I keep doing that. Is that the Tornado? It definitely isn't your Gans 356.



mark49152 said:


> I bought a camera and videoed a few 4x4 solves today. The room was cold and my average was a few seconds down, but here's the best of the bunch. I'm averaging about 1:12-13 at the moment.



So good. Could have been easily a high 40 without some minor pauses & lockups here and there. Your turning for big cubes seem quite smooth and the cube seems so smooth and silent... What cube is that? It looks like it has thousands of solves on it.


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## h2f (Mar 4, 2016)

A lot of good results here. Congrats, Mark, Marcel and Mark (am I correct newtonbase?).


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## Selkie (Mar 4, 2016)

MarcelP said:


> I am very pleased with this average. Since I hardly practice at all, when I do practice I only do slow solving.]



Very nice average Marcel, think teh slow solving is really paying off for you



mark49152 said:


> I bought a camera and videoed a few 4x4 solves today. The room was cold and my average was a few seconds down, but here's the best of the bunch. I'm averaging about 1:12-13 at the moment.



Great to see a video from you Mark, look forward to more and a lovely single solve :tu



newtonbase said:


> Finished a 3BLD 2:07 which would have been a big PB. It was a completely rescrambled cube but the memo was good and it was done with people around so bodes well.



Nice times. Really wish I could tackle my nemesis ... BLD 

--------

Been doing some 4x4 myself today and was trying to get a sub 1:05 average on film. It wasn't to be but did get a 1:05.31 average which I will upload to YouTube soon


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## MarcelP (Mar 4, 2016)

mafergut said:


> So consistent... Is that the Tornado? It definitely isn't your Gans 356.



That's my Moyu TangLong. Very very nice cube.. I think from today on my new main


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## mafergut (Mar 4, 2016)

MarcelP said:


> That's my Moyu TangLong. Very very nice cube.. I think from today on my new main



It looked like a Tanglong or similar but I didn't know you had one. It's also my OH main and my 2H main (besides my old Chilong). After a bit of breaking in I'm liking it more and more.


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## mark49152 (Mar 4, 2016)

MarcelP said:


> That was awesome. With the fumbling in the beginning, and the pauses, and almost messed up OLL (had to correct with left hand) and parity.. you still managed to get a 1.03! I think sub 1 will be your average soon  Btw, scrambling is half the video.. LOL.
> 
> Btw, I need a new camera. What did you buy and for how much?


Yeah it was not a good solve and I was surprised when I saw the time, but now I have the camera I'll post videos more often and will capture some better solves (meaning better quality not just faster time). I am getting sub-1:05 solves quite frequently now. In my last big average a couple of days ago, 7/50 were sub-1:06.

I do need to learn how to edit videos though .

The camera is an SJCAM SJ4000 WiFi and it was about 60 GBP (thanks Mark A for the recommendation ).



mafergut said:


> So good. Could have been easily a high 40 without some minor pauses & lockups here and there. Your turning for big cubes seem quite smooth and the cube seems so smooth and silent... What cube is that? It looks like it has thousands of solves on it.


Thanks. It's a full size AoSu and has maybe 2000 solves on it. I was struggling with it today and found it lockier than usual, perhaps due to cold hands. I thought my turning sucked today .


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## mafergut (Mar 4, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> Thanks. It's a full size AoSu and has maybe 2000 solves on it. I was struggling with it today and found it lockier than usual, perhaps due to cold hands. I thought my turning sucked today .



Well, I am still around 2 min average with 1:47.xx as PB single so, for me it was lightning fast.


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## Selkie (Mar 4, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> Yeah it was not a good solve and I was surprised when I saw the time, but now I have the camera I'll post videos more often and will capture some better solves (meaning better quality not just faster time). I am getting sub-1:05 solves quite frequently now. In my last big average a couple of days ago, 7/50 were sub-1:06.
> 
> I do need to learn how to edit videos though .
> 
> ...



I use the freely available Microsoft Movie Maker which is really easy to use. I currently use one of my phones to record but the quality is shocking but need a camera but was considering investing in a GoPro ready for Exeter comp but that sounds like a really reasonable bit of kit you have bought.

Coincidentally I have been using a MoYu AoSu mini for the last 6 months but it has been gettign stiffer and stiffer. I picked up my MoYu AoSu standard today and it feels much better than my mini so used the same cube as you for this session. Tried to get sub 1:05 Ao5 but it just wasnt to be


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## Logiqx (Mar 4, 2016)

Nice work everyone. It looks like a bit of encouragement and friendly competition is pushing us all to improve!

I tried to get something good on camera this afternoon (sub-10 single would have been nice) but failed miserably. lol

My short term goal is sub-18 global average and my last 1000 timed solves = 18.5.

Today's distribution:

13+: 2
14+: 3
15+: 5
16+: 23
17+: 43
18+: 42
19+: 20
20+: 5
21+: 3
22+: 3


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## Jason Green (Mar 4, 2016)

h2f said:


> @Jason - not only yours pb's are skips. What's your best full step single? Main is 13.86 or something.



I'm not sure really. I feel confident saying I've had several 18.x full step. I get 18 fairly frequently, 17.x not as much. Possible one of my 17's was a full step. I've only had two 16s so far and I'm pretty sure they were skips. 



mafergut said:


> @Chris & Jason: Nice videos. I can't stop watching your solves. Nice reaction to the sub-18, Jason! I'll have to try and capture at least a decent single on video one of these days.



Thanks!



EvilGnome6 said:


> AZCubing Winter 2016 is tomorrow.



Good luck! Wish I was there. Give me early heads up if you remember on the next one you plan so I can check flights early before you fill up!



newtonbase said:


> Finished a 3BLD 2:07 which would have been a big PB. It was a completely rescrambled cube but the memo was good and it was done with people around so bodes well.



Sounds pretty fast, nice!



MarcelP said:


> That's my Moyu TangLong. Very very nice cube.. I think from today on my new main



Guess I need a TangLong and a Yuexiao!



Selkie said:


> I use the freely available Microsoft Movie Maker which is really easy to use. I currently use one of my phones to record but the quality is shocking but need a camera but was considering investing in a GoPro ready for Exeter comp but that sounds like a really reasonable bit of kit you have bought.



I use Movie Maker if I edit, which is not often. I have an iMac I thought I would do video with when I bought it, but it's old now and too slow. I also do not care for the way the Mac software has to copy everything you import, I just want to work on the video in place! Mostly I upload direct from my phone.  I too have thought about a GoPro, it would be a fun toy...


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## h2f (Mar 4, 2016)

mafergut said:


> Voice was good enough. I think you were saying adjacent corners when you meant opposite a couple times but the video was very nice and your explanations very easy to follow. I just discovered that when I have a corner with the "cross" color facing up I usually rotate it twice through the bottom instead of just once over the top in the opposite direction, so I have learned something useful now. From your explanations I have come to the conclusion that there is really no magic, just maybe I need more solves with unlimited inspection to try and make sure I not only choose the better face but also the optimal corner placing order but, other than that I think I do almost all the things the same during "1st layer". It's just a question of more practise to see where that dang last corner ends up after inserting the others and maybe start learning intermediate. I also need to work on my skewb fingertricks as I still find it a very cumbersome puzzle to turn. My hedgeslammer is horrible (not that my sledgehammer is any good either).
> 
> Thanks a lot for the video.



Thanks for pointing it. I've checked dictionary and you're right - I used opposite and adjactent in opposite meaning.  

I also did 4x4 solve. I tried to catch sub 1:10 but it's 1:11. My avagerages are around sub 1:20 but I havent practiced 4x4 since December.


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## mark49152 (Mar 4, 2016)

h2f said:


> I also did 4x4 solve. I tried to catch sub 1:10 but it's 1:11. My avagerages are around sub 1:20 but I havent practiced 4x4 since December


Nice, very composed. I experienced a strange and annoying phenomenon today. About 20 solves into a routine 1:12ish average, I got a 55. Then a 1:26, and a couple more in the 1:20s, and the next 20 solves had an average of about 1:18. Why? They didn't even feel slower. I started to wonder if my timer is buggy .

And thanks Selkie, I'll give Movie Maker a go.


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## Selkie (Mar 4, 2016)

@Grzegorz - Nice solve and certainly cannot tell you haven't practiced recently. Its 4x4 day in the older cuber thread 

Can I ask what camera that is?

@Michael - Nice average. I am sure at 18.5 I had a lot more over 20 second solves than you. Love the stats, what timer did you use for that? Bit stuck in my ways and use qqTimer but it does have a few limitations


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## earth2dan (Mar 4, 2016)

Thought I might practice some 4x4 today and I just shattered my PB with a 1:05.75 solve  It was full step, but no parity. Too bad I wasn't recording, would've like to have gotten that on camera.

Edit: And that led to a PB AO5 of 1:18.36 

Also, on the topic of video editing, I use Sony Movie Studio Platinum 13. Less feature rich than Vegas, but actually affordable to purchase. It's $80, but routinely goes on sale for $50 - $60. I prefer it to Movie Maker, but you can't beat Movie Makers price


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## h2f (Mar 4, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> Nice, very composed. I experienced a strange and annoying phenomenon today. About 20 solves into a routine 1:12ish average, I got a 55. Then a 1:26, and a couple more in the 1:20s, and the next 20 solves had an average of about 1:18. Why? They didn't even feel slower. I started to wonder if my timer is buggy .
> 
> And thanks Selkie, I'll give Movie Maker a go.



Thanks. I know the feeling you are describing. 

@Chris - thanks. It's a GoClever - a cheaper version of Go Pro. 

I use Move Maker too. And I started recording all, reading this thread and watching so many great solves.


----------



## Logiqx (Mar 4, 2016)

Selkie said:


> @Michael - Nice average. I am sure at 18.5 I had a lot more over 20 second solves than you. Love the stats, what timer did you use for that? Bit stuck in my ways and use qqTimer but it does have a few limitations



I use csTimer and those stats are just copied from one of the tools in the bottom right of the screen.


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## Selkie (Mar 4, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> And thanks Selkie, I'll give Movie Maker a go.



No worries Mark, it kinda foolproof and very easy to title videos, edit, speed scrambles up etc



earth2dan said:


> Thought I might practice some 4x4 today and I just shattered my PB with a 1:05.75 solve  It was full step, but no parity. Too bad I wasn't recording, would've like to have gotten that on camera.
> 
> Edit: And that led to a PB AO5 of 1:18.36



Another sub 1:20 average very nice sir and surely you cannot be far away fro your first sub 1 minute 



h2f said:


> @Chris - thanks. It's a GoClever - a cheaper version of Go Pro.



Thank you, I have looked at pricing and it looks awesome. Might consider this an an alternative .. the GoPro's are so expensive and Volkswagen camper festival season is fast approaching .. my other, much, much more expensive past time


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## h2f (Mar 4, 2016)

@Chris, my son looked through many reviews before he decided we shall buy it. And it looked like it is as good as GoPro.


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## newtonbase (Mar 4, 2016)

h2f said:


> A lot of good results here. Congrats, Mark, Marcel and Mark (am I correct newtonbase?).



Yes you are.


----------



## Jason Green (Mar 5, 2016)

You guys are awesome at 4x4. Maybe I'll upload one of my 3 minute solves for you to critique. I think it's mainly I just cannot look ahead on it well. That's if I don't mess up trying to do a PLL I think I can pull off and have to redo all that stuff. 

I heard the cubing club at the elementary school is approved, should be working out schedule with teacher soon!


----------



## mark49152 (Mar 5, 2016)

Selkie said:


> I picked up my MoYu AoSu standard today and it feels much better than my mini so used the same cube as you for this session. Tried to get sub 1:05 Ao5 but it just wasnt to be


Hey nice average. I missed this one yesterday. Very inspiring. Race to sub-1?


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## Selkie (Mar 5, 2016)

Jason Green said:


> I heard the cubing club at the elementary school is approved, should be working out schedule with teacher soon!



Love this idea, keep up updated on progress Jason :tu



mark49152 said:


> Hey nice average. I missed this one yesterday. Very inspiring. Race to sub-1?



Thank you Mark, in reality our averages aren't far off each other with mine being barely sub 1:10. Would love to race to sub-1, always found racing so motivating. I actually ran the 4x4 race thread many years ago. Perfect timing as well with Exeter a month away sir


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## MarcelP (Mar 5, 2016)

My first solves of the day are again 18.4  What a coinsidence 


Spoiler: Ao12



Only slight higher standdard dev 
Generated By csTimer on 2016-3-5
solves/total: 12/12

single
best: 14.36
worst: 21.69

mean of 3
current: 18.59 (σ = 1.92)
best: 17.13 (σ = 2.41)

avg of 5
current: 18.59 (σ = 1.92)
best: 18.11 (σ = 0.77)

avg of 12
current: 18.44 (σ = 1.35)
best: 18.44 (σ = 1.35)

Average: 18.44 (σ = 1.35)
Mean: 18.37

Time List:
1. 17.29 F2 R2 D2 L F2 R' U B' L' F2 D' B2 D' F2 R2 F2 D' L2 U' B2 
2. 18.19 D' F2 U2 F2 R2 U2 L2 U' R2 D' B' U' L B2 U2 L' D L U B' L 
3. 18.83 B2 L2 U2 L B2 R' D2 R U2 L2 B2 U R U' R2 D B R' F U' F2 
4. 14.36 U' F2 U' B R' B L' F' D' F2 L2 F2 L' B2 U2 R' U2 L U2 L' 
5. 19.22 L' B2 L2 U' B2 U' L2 D' F2 U L' U' R F' L' U2 L2 D' B' 
6. 18.89 U B D2 B U2 L2 B2 U2 F D2 B D2 U' L2 B' L' F D2 U2 L D 
7. 19.84 L' D B U D2 L F R L B L2 F2 L2 B2 U' R2 L2 U R2 D2 
8. 21.69 U2 F L2 U2 F' L2 B2 L2 D2 L2 U B R D' U2 B L D L2 U 
9. 16.30 U B' U D2 R L' B L' B2 U2 F2 L2 B2 R' U2 L2 F2 U2 D 
10. 19.95 F2 U F2 L2 D F2 D' L2 U2 F2 L2 R F2 L' B' D' U2 L U R2 F' 
11. 16.40 U F' B L2 D' R U2 R' U D2 B' U2 B2 D2 L2 F' R2 U2 B 
12. 19.42 D F B R' B2 U L F' B' D U2 F2 U2 D2 F' U2 F D2 F2 L2 F2


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## mafergut (Mar 5, 2016)

Jason Green said:


> You guys are awesome at 4x4. Maybe I'll upload one of my 3 minute solves for you to critique. I think it's mainly I just cannot look ahead on it well. That's if I don't mess up trying to do a PLL I think I can pull off and have to redo all that stuff.
> 
> I heard the cubing club at the elementary school is approved, should be working out schedule with teacher soon!



I think the same, you are all awesome at 4x4 and bigger cubes. Right now I just can't imagine me being anywhere close to 1 minute at 4x4 but I guess I just need more practise.

The cubing club is a great idea! I'm glad to hear that it's taking off. I hope it goes well and I'm sure you'll enjoy it.


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## mark49152 (Mar 5, 2016)

Selkie said:


> Thank you Mark, in reality our averages aren't far off each other with mine being barely sub 1:10. Would love to race to sub-1, always found racing so motivating. I actually ran the 4x4 race thread many years ago. Perfect timing as well with Exeter a month away sir


Yeah you're a few seconds ahead of me, but that's OK, it's for the fun and motivation, not the win.



mafergut said:


> I think the same, you are all awesome at 4x4 and bigger cubes. Right now I just can't imagine me being anywhere close to 1 minute at 4x4 but I guess I just need more practise.


Yeah exactly. It's taken me about 3000 solves to get from 2:00 to 1:13 although lots of 5x5 practice helped too. Actually it will probably take at least as much again to get to 1:00, if not more.


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## Selkie (Mar 5, 2016)

Logiqx said:


> I use csTimer and those stats are just copied from one of the tools in the bottom right of the screen.



I'll try it out with some 4x4 now 



MarcelP said:


> My first solves of the day are again 18.4



You will be sub 18 before you know it 



Jason Green said:


> You guys are awesome at 4x4. Maybe I'll upload one of my 3 minute solves for you to critique. I think it's mainly I just cannot look ahead on it well. That's if I don't mess up trying to do a PLL I think I can pull off and have to redo all that stuff.





mafergut said:


> I think the same, you are all awesome at 4x4 and bigger cubes. Right now I just can't imagine me being anywhere close to 1 minute at 4x4 but I guess I just need more practise.



Absolutely gents it is just practice. 3x3 is a obviously the main event so the one most practice most. You will probably find you have more appetite for bigger cubes once you get to a threshold you are happy with on 3x3  I am actually really getting into 4x4-6x6 and feel there is still plenty of room for improvement. The great ting is, as Mark pointed out last week, any practice on bigger cubes helps 3x3 progression too.



mark49152 said:


> Yeah you're a few seconds ahead of me, but that's OK, it's for the fun and motivation, not the win.



Absolutely Mark, with you 100% ever really thought of 1 minute being a goal I could attain but beginning to feel it may be and if we can help each other get to that goal then all is good


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## mafergut (Mar 5, 2016)

@Mark: For sure it's for the fun and motivation, not the win. I couldn't agree more! I will definitely keep practising and enjoying it.

I also wanted to joing the 18.x Ao12 club so I just got one for the Race to Sub 20 (no video, though):

Ao12: 18.25 = 17.15, (21.25), 19.01, 17.33, 18.15, 20.19, 15.35, (14.93), 21.04, 17.97, 20.99, 15.29

Also some improvement at Mega. Still not sub-4 but got a 4:04 and a 4:08 with this WC's scrambles. @David: did you finally manage to get your sub-5 Ao12? I know you can!


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## h2f (Mar 5, 2016)

I may join to the race to sub-1 though I'm around 20 seconds far from it. I'm courius where it can lead me if I start practice 4x4 again. For last 10 weeks I did 100 solves - I know because I've reset my cstimer after Chirstmas. And my ao100 is 1:23.xx but I think the next will be sub 1:20.

Talking about sub-18 - my best ao12 is 18.49 but more I often Im a little sub-20.


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## muchacho (Mar 5, 2016)

mafergut said:


> Also some improvement at Mega. Still not sub-4 but got a 4:04 and a 4:08 with this WC's scrambles. @David: did you finally manage to get your sub-5 Ao12? I know you can!



No, I would had done it today if I hadn't looked at the timer too soon in 1 solve to see the time, I stopped the timer before realizing I was still 3 moves away from finishing. Apparently I've lost some motivation, I'm getting some bad solves (more than 6:00) and some DNFs, but I'm improving. I'll continue until my Yuxin 5x5 arrives, I haven't stopped practising (apart from 1 day).

Mega Ao5 PB: 4:41


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## Jason Green (Mar 5, 2016)

Selkie said:


> You will probably find you have more appetite for bigger cubes once you get to a threshold you are happy with on 3x3  I am actually really getting into 4x4-6x6 and feel there is still plenty of room for improvement.



I think you're right, if I was sub 20 I would probably be practicing more. Although big cubes are starting to grow on me already! I did several 4x4 solves last night and I'm getting closer to 2:30 instead of 3:00 (at least sometimes).



Selkie said:


> Love this idea, keep up updated on progress Jason :tu



I'll definitely keep you updated, maybe the next world champ will come from our club. 

**I just ordered a TangLong and a Yuexiao.  I ordered my color scheme stickers, and considered ordering without stickers but I figure I will want to do some turns and solves immediately when I open it!


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## h2f (Mar 5, 2016)

I'm a little sick and I did few blind solves. Thought I've never uploaded 2bld solves. Easy scramble and a lockup.


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## newtonbase (Mar 5, 2016)

3:02 3BLD solve while full of brandy. Might have another to celebrate.


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## mark49152 (Mar 5, 2016)

PB 4x4 ao5 1:04.81: 59.73, 58.10, 1:14.71, (1:17.05), (55.90). No brandy, just paracetamol.


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## newtonbase (Mar 5, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> No brandy, just paracetamol.



That's where you are going wrong!


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## mark49152 (Mar 6, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> That's where you are going wrong!


It's worth a try I guess, let me fetch a glass.



mark49152 said:


> It's taken me about 3000 solves to get from 2:00 to 1:13 although lots of 5x5 practice helped too. Actually it will probably take at least as much again to get to 1:00, if not more.


I had a closer look at this. It took me 800 solves to get to 1:30, then I was at 1:20 by 1700 solves, then hit 1:13 at about 2700 and have been plateaued there since. So projecting that, it will probably take 5000+ solves to reach 1:00. Then again, I applied a similar prediction to 5x5 and it was wrong.


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## Isaac Lai (Mar 6, 2016)

muchacho said:


> No, I would had done it today if I hadn't looked at the timer too soon in 1 solve to see the time, I stopped the timer before realizing I was still 3 moves away from finishing. Apparently I've lost some motivation, I'm getting some bad solves (more than 6:00) and some DNFs, but I'm improving. I'll continue until my Yuxin 5x5 arrives, I haven't stopped practising (apart from 1 day).
> 
> Mega Ao5 PB: 4:41



If you are struggling with megaminx at this stage, I recommend doing slow turning. Also familiarise yourself with the colours so you know exactly what colour you are looking for.


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## Selkie (Mar 6, 2016)

h2f said:


> I may join to the race to sub-1 though I'm around 20 seconds far from it. I'm courius where it can lead me if I start practice 4x4 again. For last 10 weeks I did 100 solves - I know because I've reset my cstimer after Chirstmas. And my ao100 is 1:23.xx but I think the next will be sub 1:20.



Awesome Grzegorz, would be great if you join 



muchacho said:


> Mega Ao5 PB: 4:41



Great improvement in the last few weeks :tu



Jason Green said:


> I think you're right, if I was sub 20 I would probably be practicing more. Although big cubes are starting to grow on me already! I did several 4x4 solves last night and I'm getting closer to 2:30 instead of 3:00 (at least sometimes).
> 
> I'll definitely keep you updated, maybe the next world champ will come from our club.
> 
> **I just ordered a TangLong and a Yuexiao.  I ordered my color scheme stickers, and considered ordering without stickers but I figure I will want to do some turns and solves immediately when I open it!



What an improvement in the 4x4 times Jason  For me the YueXiao is revolutionary and looking forward to solving on the TangLong when my Cubicle order ships. Seeing Marcel's solves looks very promising for that cube.



h2f said:


> I'm a little sick and I did few blind solves. Thought I've never uploaded 2bld solves. Easy scramble and a lockup.]



Great solve, the lockup must have cost 3-4 seconds



newtonbase said:


> 3:02 3BLD solve while full of brandy. Might have another to celebrate.





mark49152 said:


> It's worth a try I guess, let me fetch a glass.



Had a rum or two myself tonight. Seen some immaculate averages on Sundays at comp from competitors confessing to not sleeping till 5am. I'd struggle to pick the right 6 sides from the 12 on display


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## newtonbase (Mar 6, 2016)

Selkie said:


> Had a rum or two myself tonight. Seen some immaculate averages on Sundays at comp from competitors confessing to not sleeping till 5am. I'd struggle to pick the right 6 sides from the 12 on display



The constitution of some of the top UK cubers astonishes me.


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## muchacho (Mar 6, 2016)

Isaac Lai said:


> If you are struggling with megaminx at this stage, I recommend doing slow turning. Also familiarise yourself with the colours so you know exactly what colour you are looking for.



Thanks Isaac. I know the colours and the order I follow with them, it's just that the pieces try to hide from me and that I'm also not very efficient at solving them. I'm still improving just by doing solves so I'm fine for now. I'll stop practicing megaminx in a week or two, when I come back to it I'll try to learn some things and practice better.


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## muchacho (Mar 6, 2016)

This morning I'm getting more bad solves than usual but also some really good ones, I think this is the first time I get 4 sub-20 in 12 solves, I tried to roll it to get a fifth but I failed (but almost).

That 16.216 is my new PB, not sub-Jason  but happy to beat my previous one (it was 16.328 from Dec 4th), but I can't reconstruct it past the first block 

12. 20.365 U L2 U' R2 B2 U' F2 D2 L2 U' R2 F R U' F2 R' B L2 D U L U'
11. 29.470 U' B2 R2 D B2 L2 U2 L2 F2 D2 U' F' L U F L2 U L2 B2 F' L2 D2
10. 26.015 F2 U2 R2 D' L2 D B2 R2 U' R2 U2 F L B2 F R' U B' F D B' D'
9. 16.216 B2 D2 F2 R2 B2 U' L2 D R2 F' U F R' L2 U B' D R' L2 D2
8. 19.431 D B2 U R2 L2 B2 D B2 D' R2 U' F U L' B D' L' U' L' B' F U
7. 23.599 U' R2 L2 D F2 D R2 U2 B2 L2 U L B2 D R L U2 B U L F2
6. 36.245 L2 D' L2 U' L2 U2 F2 L2 D' R2 F' U R' B2 F R' U B D R'
5. 27.254 R2 F2 R2 D L2 B2 U2 F2 D' R2 D2 F L' U2 F2 D' F D L F R2 U2
4. 19.551 D2 R2 B2 R2 F2 D L2 U' R2 D' F2 R' F D2 L' F R2 B2 D B F'
3. 30.567 F2 D L2 U2 L2 B2 U B2 U' F2 U F' L' B U2 B2 U R2 B' F2 R U'
2. 22.654 R2 L2 D2 R2 L2 B2 U L2 D' R2 U' B' R L2 F2 R' D R' D B' F' U2
1. 19.183 L2 B2 U' L2 U B2 L2 D F2 U2 L B R2 B D B D' L' F R' U2

In the "race" to sub-5 ao12 in megaminx still no luck, I DNFed the first solve (same as yesterday), if I get below 6:10 in my first solve tomorrow I'll make it, how hard can it be, right?


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## midwatchcowboy (Mar 6, 2016)

So, one step forward. Two steps back. I've come up with a plan, but am significantly slower as a result. Previously, I was 2-look OLL and 2-look PLL. But to make any real progress, I need to move forward in learning techniques.

I've decided to work on no look cross on bottom (Cross Bootcamp).

Also, I've got a small notebook to draw and copy the 21 OLLs that seem to fit me.

I'm working on some mnemonics for these. For example, this E-perm (x' R U' R' D R U R' D' R U R' D R U' R' D'). I can remember that it is 'mid two', 'last two', 'third', last three'. That's how I remember the CCW turns.

I'm going slow on F2L to try and get some more awareness of the cube dynamics. How to continue to rotate a face to protect a previously solved pair.

Slow going, but fun.


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## EvilGnome6 (Mar 6, 2016)

I made it through AZCubing Winter 2016 in one piece. It was busy and exhausting but I think the event went pretty smooth. The venue was great and I'll definitely be using them for future competitions. My results were decent. I was hoping for better 4x4 and 5x5 results but I'll take the 3 PBs in those events, anyway. The OH was on par and 2x2 went very well. 3x3 was the only event I didn't make any gains in but I wasn't expecting that. Overall, I'll take it as a success.


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## Logiqx (Mar 6, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> I had a closer look at this. It took me 800 solves to get to 1:30, then I was at 1:20 by 1700 solves, then hit 1:13 at about 2700 and have been plateaued there since. So projecting that, it will probably take 5000+ solves to reach 1:00. Then again, I applied a similar prediction to 5x5 and it was wrong.



Nice to see your progression like that Mark. I've done just over 1400 timed solves on 4x4 according to my records. I need to start practicing again and the interest from this thread might be just what I need for motivation!

The recent mention of Skewb also caused me to dig mine out of the "unused puzzles" box; never solved and untouched since I received it for X-Mas 2014. It was fun working out how to do it for myself yesterday but on reflection, I feel kinda dumb for taking between 30 - 60 minutes (I didn't time myself). Maybe I'll do a bit of practice and enter at the next competition!



EvilGnome6 said:


> I made it through AZCubing Winter 2016 in one piece. It was busy and exhausting but I think the event went pretty smooth. The venue was great and I'll definitely be using them for future competitions. My results were decent. I was hoping for better 4x4 and 5x5 results but I'll take the 3 PBs in those events, anyway. The OH was on par and 2x2 went very well. 3x3 was the only event I didn't make any gains in but I wasn't expecting that. Overall, I'll take it as a success.



Nice work. So many PBs!


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## muchacho (Mar 6, 2016)

EvilGnome6 said:


> I made it through AZCubing Winter 2016 in one piece.


Congrats! And nice PBs also!


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## h2f (Mar 6, 2016)

EvilGnome6 said:


> I made it through AZCubing Winter 2016 in one piece. It was busy and exhausting but I think the event went pretty smooth. The venue was great and I'll definitely be using them for future competitions. My results were decent. I was hoping for better 4x4 and 5x5 results but I'll take the 3 PBs in those events, anyway. The OH was on par and 2x2 went very well. 3x3 was the only event I didn't make any gains in but I wasn't expecting that. Overall, I'll take it as a success.
> 
> http://mikedecock.com/img/AZCW2016Results.png



Rally great results and very nice ao5 in 2x2 and big cubes. Congrats!


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## muchacho (Mar 6, 2016)

Also Raúl (moralsh) got some PBs: http://cubecomps.com/live.php?cid=1402&compid=28

That 4x4BLD is good, congrats!


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## Jason Green (Mar 6, 2016)

Great job Mike and Raúl!


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## newtonbase (Mar 6, 2016)

Well done guys.


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## h2f (Mar 6, 2016)

Wow, Raul. Hoping it's on cam!


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## moralsh (Mar 6, 2016)

Thanks guys, it was both hectic and fun, as always.

Pretty happy with my two silvers and my sub 30 full step OH single, it also happened this:






Oh well


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## mafergut (Mar 6, 2016)

Got my 1st success at 3BLD for the WC. I don't know whether to be happy or ashamed because the time was above 17 minutes 

Congratulations to Raul and Mike for their PBs in comp and also, Mike, for surviving the tournament organization


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## h2f (Mar 6, 2016)

Of course, to be happy, Miguel!

I havent noticed your two silvers Raul. Congrats!


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## muchacho (Mar 6, 2016)

Congrats! Be happy, that's a great achievement, what is your hardest part for now?


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## mafergut (Mar 6, 2016)

@Chris: What method do you use for SQ-1 cube shape?
I found this (method 1) that seems easy enough with just 5 algs to learn.
Right now I'm using method 3 in that page, which basically is trying to intuitively come to case 0 in method 1, by putting all the edges together but there are some tricky cases that give me nightmares so I was thinking that maybe I should learn those additional 4 algs for cases 1 to 4.


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## h2f (Mar 6, 2016)

@Miguel, I found this viedo to be helpfull: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gkvl1xQhTu0&index=14&list=PLJ1BFt1hZm2pzkDBx-KvOVnuOpX9zOfNN

I know case 1 and 2 from your list.


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## EvilGnome6 (Mar 6, 2016)

My best attempts from AZCubing Winter 2016.






In order of the events of the day:

5x5: 2:15.60 (Yuxin 5x5)
2x2: 5.11 (MoYu LingPo)
3x3: 20.05 (QiYi Thunderclap)
4x4: 1:14.20 (Cyclone Boys G4)
3x3 OH: 40.35 (MoYu Mini WeiLong)


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## Jason Green (Mar 6, 2016)

EvilGnome6 said:


> My best attempts from AZCubing Winter 2016.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3-b02tTFRDg
> 
> ...


Good job Mike! The venue looks nice, I really want to come out some time.


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## Selkie (Mar 6, 2016)

muchacho said:


> That 16.216 is my new PB, not sub-Jason  but happy to beat my previous one (it was 16.328 from Dec 4th), but I can't reconstruct it past the first block



Very Nice 



EvilGnome6 said:


> I made it through AZCubing Winter 2016 in one piece.]



Some great results 



muchacho said:


> Also Raúl (moralsh) got some PBs: http://cubecomps.com/live.php?cid=1402&compid=28
> 
> That 4x4BLD is good, congrats!



Wow some great results this weekend :tu



mafergut said:


> Got my 1st success at 3BLD for the WC. I don't know whether to be happy or ashamed because the time was above 17 minutes



Time does matter its a great achievement 



mafergut said:


> @Chris: What method do you use for SQ-1 cube shape?.



Nothing very scientific I am afraid, I know a few cases and use intuitive but complicated cases can take me 10-15 seconds so I really should learn the cases in time. The link you posted looks good :tu



h2f said:


> @Miguel, I found this viedo to be helpfull: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gkvl1xQhTu0&index=14&list=PLJ1BFt1hZm2pzkDBx-KvOVnuOpX9zOfNN
> 
> I know case 1 and 2 from your list.



Yeah helpful video


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## EvilGnome6 (Mar 6, 2016)

Jason Green said:


> Good job Mike! The venue looks nice, I really want to come out some time.



The venue was really classy. It was way beyond my expectations. I will give you a heads-up as soon as we set the next date.


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## Lid (Mar 6, 2016)

mafergut said:


> @Chris: What method do you use for SQ-1 cube shape?





Selkie said:


> Nothing very scientific I am afraid, I know a few cases and use intuitive but complicated cases can take me 10-15 seconds so I really should learn the cases in time. The link you posted looks good :tu



I can recommend Brandon Lin's video, but most of all do alot of solves, and all cases should sooner or later be easy to solve optimally. And I don't see them as algs, more like paths. And practice^3 of cause. (Also Check the link in my sign.)


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## mafergut (Mar 6, 2016)

Lid said:


> I can recommend Brandon Lin's video, but most of all do alot of solves, and all cases should sooner or later be easy to solve optimally. And I don't see them as algs, more like paths. And practice^3 of cause. (Also Check the link in my sign.)



Thanks for your feedback. By the way, the links for SQ-1 EP/Shape on your sig do not work.


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## newtonbase (Mar 6, 2016)

mafergut said:


> Got my 1st success at 3BLD for the WC. I don't know whether to be happy or ashamed because the time was above 17 minutes



Be very, very happy. It's a great achievement that most cubers, never mind real people, never manage. Times are irrelevant at this stage.

Did you not feel happy? I was ecstatic. Same as 1st solve, first sub 1 min and first (and only) multi.


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## mafergut (Mar 6, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> Be very, very happy. It's a great achievement that most cubers, never mind real people, never manage. Times are irrelevant at this stage.
> 
> Did you not feel happy? I was ecstatic. Same as 1st solve, first sub 1 min and first (and only) multi.



Yeah, I felt happy but also I realized the amount of work needed to get better (learn a proper edge method, as this was done with OP, improve my tracing, my memo...). In fact I had a success like 2 years ago but it was untimed and the scramble was fairly easy and it probably took like half an hour. This one had parity, one twisted corner, two flipped edges and, if I remember correctly two corner cycles and two edge cycles... just saying all this I'm feeling even happier


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## Lid (Mar 6, 2016)

mafergut said:


> Thanks for your feedback. By the way, the links for SQ-1 EP/Shape on your sig do not work.


Links fixed!


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## Selkie (Mar 6, 2016)

Lid said:


> I can recommend Brandon Lin's video, but most of all do alot of solves, and all cases should sooner or later be easy to solve optimally. And I don't see them as algs, more like paths. And practice^3 of cause. (Also Check the link in my sign.)



Heh thanks Lid. I just got sub 40 in the last couple of weeks on Square-1 and should really invest some time to improve. I will take a look at those resources and try and learn some more after Exeter comp in 4 weeks :tu


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## moralsh (Mar 6, 2016)

Thanks again guys, and also congrats to Miguel Ángel for making the first of many successes and to Mike for organizing the first of many competitions and surviving 

I might have the 1:50 BLD on video but nothing else, I really should start recording on and off comps. 29 OH single was a pauseless F2L, T with blocks OLL and an A PLL I'll try to get the scramble and reconstruct. Doing mega on the comp was inspired by the race in this thread I'll try to push it to sub 3 this summer if I get some time and a good Mega xD but 4:01 is quite Ok for me right now 

3BLD was my first podium on the event and my worst round lately, I think the pressure to win made me underperform, last scramble should have been a 1:20, I wouldn't have won either way, but it would have been nice 

I need to relearn SQ1 and maybe try an all events relay (all but feet, I mean xD)


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## newtonbase (Mar 6, 2016)

mafergut said:


> Yeah, I felt happy but also I realized the amount of work needed to get better (learn a proper edge method, as this was done with OP, improve my tracing, my memo...). In fact I had a success like 2 years ago but it was untimed and the scramble was fairly easy and it probably took like half an hour. This one had parity, one twisted corner, two flipped edges and, if I remember correctly two corner cycles and two edge cycles... just saying all this I'm feeling even happier



That's a tricky scramble well done. 

I have a couple of blind questions. I currently use OP corners and treat twisted corners as 2 targets. That's a lot of moves. How do you guys deal with these? 

Also, commutators. Is there a decent written guide out there? I've watched all I can find on YouTube and still don't properly understand them. People rave about Noah but I don't think we're on the same wavelength.


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## h2f (Mar 6, 2016)

For twisted corners try a trick like R U R' U' twice, next L' nexe U R U' R' twice and L. Do it inverserly, do it with setup F, undo setup etc. just play around. It's hard to me describe fully that trick but I use it a lot. For comms - if you want list of algs I got couple of them linked for DF and UF buffer. Have you seen Noah's series about transition to 3style?


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## newtonbase (Mar 6, 2016)

h2f said:


> For twisted corners try a trick like R U R' U' twice, next L' nexe U R U' R' twice and L. Do it inverserly, do it with setup F, undo setup etc. just play around. It's hard to me describe fully that trick but I use it a lot. For comms - if you want list of algs I got couple of them linked for DF and UF buffer. Have you seen Noah's series about transition to 3style?



Thanks. I'll play around with them. I do have lists of algorithms and I'll look at yours but I really wanted to get a proper understanding of the rules behind comms. I've seen Noah's series but I struggle with them. I had trouble with his M2 stuff too.


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## Lid (Mar 6, 2016)

After all this Sq1 talk I did an avg of 50.

number of times: 50/50
number of parities: 25 = 50.0%
best time: 12.746
worst time: 27.567

best avg5: 17.887 (σ = 2.19)
best avg12: 19.196 (σ = 2.08)
current avg50: *19.945* (σ = 2.19)



Spoiler: Times



18.506, 19.451, 22.175, 22.655, 26.008[p], 18.470, 16.419, 24.113[p], 21.634[p], 18.608, 15.979, 22.292[p], 20.381, 18.878, 24.632[p], 19.813[p], 20.514[p], 18.347[p], 27.567[p], 19.811, 12.746, 15.504, 18.714, 24.841, 20.438[p], 19.858[p], 15.541, 22.386[p], 20.500[p], 19.657[p], 20.115, 20.057[p], 17.669, 15.901, 20.623[p], 21.590[p], 20.309, 14.343, 24.713[p], 18.307, 19.964[p], 22.391[p], 17.817, 23.253[p], 20.144[p], 19.987[p], 17.700, 18.620, 18.792[p], 19.855[p]





Spoiler: Best time + solution



12.746 (3, 5) / (3, 0) / (-5, -5) / (2, -4) / (1, -2) / (6, -1) / (3, 0) / (2, 0) / (1, 0) / (3, -2) / (-4, 0) / (0, -4)

z2 -2,-2/2,0/1,0/-4,0/3,0/ :: CS
-2,0/0,3/3,-3/-1,-1/ :: CO+EO
0,6/-3,0/3,3/0,-3/ :: CP (JJ)
/1,1/3,0/-1,-1/3,0/1,1/-4,-3 (Z/-)


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## mark49152 (Mar 7, 2016)

Congrats to both.

@Raul: Nice 4BLD result, that's a big jump from last PB. Good job!

@Mike D: Great job on all the PBs and I note you've edged past me in the elderly rankings for 4x4 average, which gives me a bit of extra motivation for my April comp


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## h2f (Mar 7, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> Thanks. I'll play around with them. I do have lists of algorithms and I'll look at yours but I really wanted to get a proper understanding of the rules behind comms. I've seen Noah's series but I struggle with them. I had trouble with his M2 stuff too.



You are on a good way - comms need to be understood. What problem with M2 do you have?


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## ryuusei86 (Mar 7, 2016)

Wow, like 40 more pages have been added since I last posted. I don't want to lower the level of conversation too much, so suffice it to say my collection has grown a bit after deliveries from Cubicle and Cubezz. The Cubicle delivery contained a Fisher cube and three 3x3s: a GuanLong, a Thunderclap, and a YuXin Fire. Oddly I liked the GuanLong the best! I hadn't felt anything quite so light and airy yet. The Thunderclap was every bit as good as everyone here says, but I prefer my Cyclone Boys 3x3 now that I've solved its problems. I'm returning the two 3x3s to the Cubicle, which I know is a bit silly but I do have three DaYan 3x3s on the way from elsewhere.

The Cubezz order contained a Shengshou Skewb (which along with the Fisher cube I haven't played much with yet), a GuanSu (which is amazing and beats my Cyclone Boys 4x4, which in turn is quite decent after sticking with it as many of you advised me), and a cheap YJ YuPo (which was, in a word, awful until I disassembled it, removed the flash from the core, and reassembled and retensioned it). There is also a clock puzzle and 2x2 mirror blocks, which turn nicely but again I have yet to play much with it.

I am still working on the Roux method and am sure I'll have a breakthrough on the last six edges if I keep at it. Up until then it makes tons of sense to me.


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## mafergut (Mar 7, 2016)

h2f said:


> For twisted corners try a trick like R U R' U' twice, next L' nexe U R U' R' twice and L. Do it inverserly, do it with setup F, undo setup etc. just play around. It's hard to me describe fully that trick but I use it a lot. For comms - if you want list of algs I got couple of them linked for DF and UF buffer. Have you seen Noah's series about transition to 3style?



Woah! Nice! So this twists the corner at UFL cw (and the buffer at UBL ccw). So with a setup of the twisted corner to UFL and this alg or its inverse... voilà! Thanks a lot. I will try to use this next time. Of course, saving some seconds off my 17 minutes solves might not seem much right now but every bit counts. In my success from yesterday (the 3rd 3BLD scramble in the WC) the twisted corner was UFL so "setup" couldn't be easier  If in understand this correctly this must be done at the end, when the buffer already holds the correct corner (but maybe twisted or not, depending on how many other twisted corners and directions remain), right?



ryuusei86 said:


> Wow, like 40 more pages have been added since I last posted. [...] Oddly I liked the GuanLong the best! I hadn't felt anything quite so light and airy yet.



We are a very active community. If you go offline for some days that's what you should expect  The Guanlong feels nice and stable but it's a bit too slow and soft plastic so, in the end my times with it were not great.


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## h2f (Mar 7, 2016)

mafergut said:


> Woah! Nice! So this twists the corner at UFL cw (and the buffer at UBL ccw). So with a setup of the twisted corner to UFL and this alg or its inverse... voilà! Thanks a lot. I will try to use this next time. Of course, saving some seconds off my 17 minutes solves might not seem much right now but every bit counts. In my success from yesterday (the 3rd 3BLD scramble in the WC) the twisted corner was UFL so "setup" couldn't be easier  If in understand this correctly this must be done at the end, when the buffer already holds the correct corner (but maybe twisted or not, depending on how many other twisted corners and directions remain), right?



Yes, I do it in the end. And almost always I twist coner and a buffer. But the main thing is that every rotation inverses the twist. I mean if you need to twist DFL and and the at the F (I mean in my color scheme white is at FDL) I need to do setup F. This means that instead doing U R etc. I start with RU (inverse of previous). This rule is also applied to x/y/z rotations. I dont know if my explanation is clear?

For UFL twist you dont need setup if the buffer is UBL.


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## mark49152 (Mar 7, 2016)

mafergut said:


> If in understand this correctly this must be done at the end, when the buffer already holds the correct corner (but maybe twisted or not, depending on how many other twisted corners and directions remain), right?


Yes it's best done at the end. I once made the mistake of trying to twist corners first. But that also (usually) twists the buffer so then the first OP corner solved is wrongly oriented.

Also I now try to memo twisted corners as two targets and do this trick if I remember during exec. If I forget and execute as two targets, at least it works. For a long time, I used visual memo for twists and my main reason for DNFs was forgetting twists or getting them wrong.


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## Selkie (Mar 7, 2016)

Lid said:


> After all this Sq1 talk I did an avg of 50.



Very impressive times, can I ask what method you use. Well the method is obvious, what sub steps and how many algs you know?



ryuusei86 said:


> Wow, like 40 more pages have been added since I last posted. I don't want to lower the level of conversation too much, so suffice it to say my collection has grown a bit after deliveries from Cubicle and Cubezz. The Cubicle delivery contained a Fisher cube



I was inactive most of yesterday cooking a roast dinner for mothers day and came on yesterday evening to three pages. A very active community which I think is a great thing. When I started speed cubing 6 years ago I was left wondering how many older solvers there were. Marcel started an invaluable resource and place of collaboration here :tu


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## mafergut (Mar 7, 2016)

h2f said:


> Yes, I do it in the end. And almost always I twist coner and a buffer. But the main thing is that every rotation inverses the twist. I mean if you need to twist DFL and and the at the F (I mean in my color scheme white is at FDL) I need to do setup F. This means that instead doing U R etc. I start with RU (inverse of previous). This rule is also applied to x/y/z rotations. I dont know if my explanation is clear?
> 
> For UFL twist you dont need setup if the buffer is UBL.



Yeah, for UFL you don't need setup with UBL buffer, that's why I said that the "setup" couldn't be easier  I think after a couple practice examples I got how this works and it's really nice but what I'm not sure is what you mean by every rotation inverses the twist. If you think of the twist to be either clockwise or counter-clockwise it doesn't matter how you move the corner around the cube, it will still need to be twisted cc or ccw as originally. Also it's funny that the inverse can be done as you suggest as I had just inverted literaly, giving
L' (R U R' U')x2 L (U R U' R')x2
instead of (U R U' R')x2 L' (R U R' U')x2 L
both work equally well 



mark49152 said:


> Yes it's best done at the end. I once made the mistake of trying to twist corners first. But that also (usually) twists the buffer so then the first OP corner solved is wrongly oriented.
> 
> Also I now try to memo twisted corners as two targets and do this trick if I remember during exec. If I forget and execute as two targets, at least it works. For a long time, I used visual memo for twists and my main reason for DNFs was forgetting twists or getting them wrong.



For now I also memo twists and flips visually but I assume for multi that's not an option. Problem with two-target memo is that then you have to think during execution whether that was a cw or ccw twist in order to do the trick right.

Also, if you have two twisted corners I assume you can do a setup to put them both at UBL and UFL and just fix both of them with one alg. That would be a great improvement over 4 Y-perms  As this alg does preserve the rest of the cube (in contrast with Y-perm) I assume you don't have to be careful to preserve the buffer corner and adjacent edges to use this. I will try to setup an example case with 2 corners this afternoon.

Thanks a lot!


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## Shaky Hands (Mar 7, 2016)

ryuusei86 said:


> Wow, like 40 more pages have been added since I last posted.



Indeed, I've had another weekend away and it's been good to catch up. Congratulations to everyone on their recent achievements!



mark49152 said:


> It took me 800 solves to get to 1:30, then I was at 1:20 by 1700 solves, then hit 1:13 at about 2700 and have been plateaued there since. So projecting that, it will probably take 5000+ solves to reach 1:00. Then again, I applied a similar prediction to 5x5 and it was wrong.



I've only got a decent number of timed solved for 3x3 but thought I'd share my progression of PB's on it to date:



Spoiler



1. 4m 24s
11. 3m 6s
21. 2m 29s
39. 1m 59s
51. 1m 53s
70. 1m 37s
126. 1m 34s
129. 1m 26s
131. 1m 14s
175. 1m 6s
430. 1m 4s
431. 52s
577. 48s
754. 43s
778. 42s
1030. 41s
1057. 35s
1098. 33s
1297. 29s
1431. 27s
2251. 25s
2379. 23s
2940. 21s
5425. 20s
7450. 19s



Despite getting that 19s PB during my 5x5 binge, my times ended up going up (averaging high 31.xx instead of low 29.xx,) so have been trying to re-drill 3x3 recently in hope of graduating the Race to Sub-30 this week. Re-tensioned the cube last night and it dropped back down a bit so hopefully that will help. Deadline for the Race is today, so will let you know how it goes.

Cheers.


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## h2f (Mar 7, 2016)

mafergut said:


> Yeah, for UFL you don't need setup with UBL buffer, that's why I said that the "setup" couldn't be easier  I think after a couple practice examples I got how this works and it's really nice but what I'm not sure is what you mean by every rotation inverses the twist. If you think of the twist to be either clockwise or counter-clockwise it doesn't matter how you move the corner around the cube, it will still need to be twisted cc or ccw as originally. Also it's funny that the inverse can be done as you suggest as I had just inverted literaly, giving
> L' (R U R' U')x2 L (U R U' R')x2
> instead of (U R U' R')x2 L' (R U R' U')x2 L
> both work equally well



Yes you're right. The thing is that I dont memo them as being CW or CCW but where the white or yellow sticker is. This means if it's in position "to me" I do the alg with UR/UL begining. But If I do a setup or y/x/z I do inverserly. I used to the way I deal with it. 

Aobut memeo twists - I do the same - I memo it with one or two letters and it was also a main cause of my dnfs.


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## mark49152 (Mar 7, 2016)

mafergut said:


> Problem with two-target memo is that then you have to think during execution whether that was a cw or ccw twist in order to do the trick right.


I have a simple trick for that - if my pair is in alphabetical order it's clockwise, if counter-alphabetical then ccw. For example PK/KP, BQ/QB, DI/ID. I always use the same pairs/words so don't need to think about it any more. I know a bush in my scene means UBR clockwise.



mafergut said:


> Also, if you have two twisted corners I assume you can do a setup to put them both at UBL and UFL and just fix both of them with one alg.


Usually (unless it requires too much thinking) I'll rotate to get one of the corners in buffer position then set up the other. No need to undo a rotation .


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## mafergut (Mar 7, 2016)

h2f said:


> Yes you're right. The thing is that I dont memo them as being CW or CCW but where the white or yellow sticker is. This means if it's in position "to me" I do the alg with UR/UL begining. But If I do a setup or y/x/z I do inverserly. I used to the way I deal with it.
> 
> Aobut memeo twists - I do the same - I memo it with one or two letters and it was also a main cause of my dnfs.



Okay, I got it now, so every quarter turn would make you swap the alg and a half turn would make it remain the same. So, for the corner at the usual OP Y-perm target (DFR) you would do an F2 setup and do the same alg.



mark49152 said:


> I have a simple trick for that - if my pair is in alphabetical order it's clockwise, if counter-alphabetical then ccw. For example PK/KP, BQ/QB, DI/ID. I always use the same pairs/words so don't need to think about it any more. I know a bush in my scene means UBR clockwise.
> 
> Usually (unless it requires too much thinking) I'll rotate to get one of the corners in buffer position then set up the other. No need to undo a rotation .



Nice trick!! I didn't think about that. Regarding using the same words every time I need to start improving that. It's the cause I tend to forget my memo because some letter pairs are very difficult to make a word for them, even using a mixture of Spanish and English. So BQ is a bush for you? You just decided that randomly or where is the relation of a bush with a Q that I can't see?  I would have thought of maybe a BBQ 

And, if you are doing corners last yes, you don't need to undo a rotation. If you are doing edges last then you have to  Well, if the corners are at DFR and DBR then with a z2 you can setup both. That would be very convenient but I'd probably have done B2 F2


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## h2f (Mar 7, 2016)

mafergut said:


> Okay, I got it now, so every quarter turn would make you swap the alg and a half turn would make it remain the same. So, for the corner at the usual OP Y-perm target (DFR) you would do an F2 setup and do the same alg.



Exactly! I must found something more usefull to memo that.


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## EvilGnome6 (Mar 7, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> @Mike D: Great job on all the PBs and I note you've edged past me in the elderly rankings for 4x4 average, which gives me a bit of extra motivation for my April comp



You had me excited but I don't think my 1:17.77 quite beats your 1:17.69. I'm right on your heels, though, and the game is on.

It looks like my biggest gain in the elderly rankings was with the 2:15.60 5x5 single.


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## Logiqx (Mar 7, 2016)

I'll update the over 40's rankings when the results are in the WCA export.

Please let me know when your results have been visible on the WCA site for 24 hours.

I will update the over 40's thread at some time after your 24 hour notification(s).


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## muchacho (Mar 7, 2016)

The Yuxin 5x5 arrived this morning, sooner than I expected, but just in time, no more megaminx for now since I was finally able to get a sub-5 ao12: 4:50.50

Not that I have solved it already but the Yuxin feels good, and the colors of the stickers are fine for me, I don't need to change them, which is unusual.


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## mark49152 (Mar 7, 2016)

EvilGnome6 said:


> You had me excited but I don't think my 1:17.77 quite beats your 1:17.69. I'm right on your heels, though, and the game is on.


There you go, an elderly moment. I misremembered my PB as 1:17.9x. Still, having you on my heels is some motivation!


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## newtonbase (Mar 7, 2016)

Thanks for all the corner twisting advice everyone.


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## Lid (Mar 7, 2016)

Selkie said:


> Very impressive times, can I ask what method you use. Well the method is obvious, what sub steps and how many algs you know?


As you can see from the reconstruction just standard Vandenbergh, and I do each step in one look, which means full EP also. Plus some random tricks here and there. Currently planning to learn CP+Parity. Most of the algs are on my webpage.

Here you can practice CS: http://mzrg.com/js/cubeshape_trainer.html

_edit:_ I know it's alot of algs ... but I had so far 7 years with the Sq-1 & the QiYi had made it fun solve once again.


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## Selkie (Mar 7, 2016)

@Stefan - Great stuff. Not sure I would learn full EP, maybe in the future but definitely will get straight on more optimised Cube Shape and practicing bottom later EP as I currently switch layers. Thanks for the links :tu

@Race to Sub 1 4x4 Guys

Well I spent some time yesterday changing my method slightly. For some reason with Yau I had already put cross on the bottom to solve last cross edge and it threw my look ahead which is not good on 4x4 anyway. I have also been trying to persevere with my AoSu mini as I can turn faster with it. Just got the following:-

Average of 5: 1:04.80 (First 5 solves)
Average of 12: 1:08.63
Single 55.29 Personal Best
First time I have ever had a counting sub-1 in an average of 5 too 



Spoiler



1. 1:09.31 r' F2 U' r' u L f2 r' D F' B2 L2 F' U2 f2 u R' U' f2 r u r2 U D2 r2 u2 B' f2 D' r2 D' f' u B D2 L2 U2 u' B' F2 
2. 58.69 R2 F2 B' R2 U L2 f u' B' F f2 L D u r' R L f' u U' r' u2 F2 B' L' D' L f u' F2 u L R B R2 f2 r2 R L2 B 
3. 1:12.75 u L2 U B L2 R u2 L2 B' r B' F2 r' R2 f2 r2 L' R f' F' r F L2 u' U' r u2 B' f' D2 u F' D2 L2 D' R' u' f' R L 
4. (55.29) F2 U2 F r D u f2 B' r U2 B D2 R' U' L' u R' u2 U' r F2 B' D' u' r U2 F U' R2 D2 F B2 u F' u U' D B' f2 F 
5. 1:06.41 F' u r L' D F2 f2 r' L2 f' D2 R2 F2 u' U2 B2 u U B L' B2 f R2 f D' L f' B' U' L u F R' f u2 U2 f2 u2 f F' 
6. 1:10.75 F' f' U' F' L2 f B' L2 f2 U2 F2 U' D r2 U' F r L2 D' L2 D F U' F' f2 U' B' U2 D2 f2 D2 F2 r' R f2 r D u2 r2 L2 
7. 1:04.70+ F f L2 f' F2 R D U R' F' u2 U2 R L2 r2 u U2 D2 R2 D L' r2 F' D' U u' r2 R D' u2 U B L' r' U' L2 u F D2 f 
8. (1:27.64) f' B' U2 B L2 D' R r' U B2 F2 L' f2 B r' L2 D2 r' f2 D2 r2 L2 U u F' L2 f' R u B' U' R' U r' u' R2 F' D2 u F' 
9. 1:10.21 R' F f2 r2 B2 F U' R F f D' u' U2 B D r u' F f U' L2 B2 L2 u R D2 R2 L' f R2 U2 F R' f r' F2 f2 D2 B D2 
10. 1:14.37 F' D r' F2 R2 r' D' U' f r' f2 F B D' u2 B2 U' F' r2 D2 r' B' L D' F2 f r2 F f' R' D2 F2 U' D' F2 D' r2 U' u2 f2 
11. 1:11.06 F' D2 f2 u' L u' D f2 U D' f' D' B2 L' F' B2 D' R F u f R' L2 r F r F' D R U2 D f' L2 U2 u f2 B2 U2 f D2 
12. 1:08.05 B D2 B U r2 R F2 U2 R' r f' L B2 L' u L' R' U2 F2 D U2 L2 F2 L R' f' L R' f2 r D' B2 f2 u' R' L D U' f2 U



I did film this so if I can edit the video to be small enough I will upload it and edit this post to embed.


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## mafergut (Mar 7, 2016)

Selkie said:


> I did film this so if I can edit the video to be small enough I will upload it and edit this post to embed.



If the full Ao12 is too big I for one would like to watch the Ao5 or the 55.29 single, at least.


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## Selkie (Mar 7, 2016)

mafergut said:


> If the full Ao12 is too big I for one would like to watch the Ao5 or the 55.29 single, at least.



Just managed it but had to kill the scrambling and most of the inspection  Even with the scrambling at 8x it was too long. The scrambles are in the credits at the end though. Uploading now


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## Jason Green (Mar 7, 2016)

Selkie said:


> Just managed it but had to kill the scrambling and most of the inspection  Even with the scrambling at 8x it was too long. The scrambles are in the credits at the end though. Uploading now


What is "too long"? YouTube used to limit upload length but doesn't seem to for me anymore.


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## Selkie (Mar 7, 2016)

Jason Green said:


> What is "too long"? YouTube used to limit upload length but doesn't seem to for me anymore.



Didn't even realise there wasn't a limit anymore. I'll put it down to a senior citizen moment


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## Shaky Hands (Mar 7, 2016)

Selkie said:


> Didn't even realise there wasn't a limit anymore. I'll put it down to a senior citizen moment
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=teKD0aAtGo0



Excellent stuff Chris. Really good. Did you edit out an exclamation of happiness at your PB?


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## mafergut (Mar 7, 2016)

Wow! That 55!!! You manage to turn so fast with a 4x4. And the 58 had PLL parity, if I did not see it wrong.
I'm afraid I'll never reach those speeds.


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## h2f (Mar 7, 2016)

@Chirs, nice solves! What's a deal with a 4th cross wing? Hoya method?


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## earth2dan (Mar 7, 2016)

@Selkie: Wow, really nice 4x4 solves. I like how you keep a nice steady pace all the way through. Your look ahead on 4x4 is exemplary


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## Selkie (Mar 7, 2016)

Thank you ll for your kind words.

The turn speed probably looks high as that is something I am consciously trying to do. It was instrumental in getting off my 3x3 plateau in the last 6 months so I figure it can only help in 4x4 and 5x5. Very pleased with the PB and indeed that was also first sub-1 with a parity in it. Don't think last cross edge is Hoya and the way I am solving it is probablt far from optimal but it is certainly better than fixing last edge after I rotate to cross on bottom as I have for years.

Really feeling a like a lot of practice cubing again is paying off and cannot wait until Exeter in 3 1/2 weeks


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## Shaky Hands (Mar 7, 2016)

Shaky Hands said:


> Despite getting that 19s PB during my 5x5 binge, my times ended up going up (averaging high 31.xx instead of low 29.xx,) so have been trying to re-drill 3x3 recently in hope of graduating the Race to Sub-30 this week. Re-tensioned the cube last night and it dropped back down a bit so hopefully that will help. Deadline for the Race is today, so will let you know how it goes.



Feel geeky for quoting myself but I said I'd let you know how it goes...

I made it... JUST. (Getting a 42+ sec solve in the Ao12 didn't help but at least it didn't count to the average.)

For anyone that is sup-30 and hasn't attempted the Race to Sub-30 yet, I highly recommend it. You can enter here.

Here's my progression through the race for anyone interested.



Spoiler



Round 113 - 36.91
Round 114 - 34.72
Round 115 - 34.15
Round 116 - 33.53
Round 117 - 30.72
Round 118 - 36.55 (oops)
Round 119 - 32.81
Round 120 - 32.43
Round 121 - 29.71
Round 122 - 29.10
Round 123 - 29.96 (so close!)



Heading for sub-25 should be fun. 

EDIT: Also managed to improve my 3x3 PB today from 19.86 to 19.08. Full step too.


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## Selkie (Mar 7, 2016)

@Andy

Awesome, huge congratulations for the graduation and for the single. I second it, race threads are great to give focus and motivation. Think this was the round I graduated from sub 30  https://www.speedsolving.com/forum/showthread.php?21411-quot-NEW-quot-Race-to-Sub-30!/page153


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## mafergut (Mar 7, 2016)

I fully agree. I'm now involved in several races, trying to graduate or as an alumni and it's great for motivation. Trying to become full CN, and getting some sub-18 Ao12...

So, Andy, keep pushing and you'll be soon graduating from sub-25.


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## Selkie (Mar 7, 2016)

"Greetings from TheCubicle.us

We just wanted to let you know that your order #------ has just been processed and fully shipped via USPS."

Awesome. Huge unboxing video soon


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## EvilGnome6 (Mar 7, 2016)

Logiqx said:


> I'll update the over 40's rankings when the results are in the WCA export.
> 
> Please let me know when your results have been visible on the WCA site for 24 hours.
> 
> I will update the over 40's thread at some time after your 24 hour notification(s).



The results have been up for 24 hours now. Thanks for maintaining the elderly rankings! It's a great motivator for me.


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## mafergut (Mar 7, 2016)

EvilGnome6 said:


> The results have been up for 24 hours now. Thanks for maintaining the elderly rankings! It's a great motivator for me.



"Elderly" sounds so... depressing. How about "experienced"?


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## LL Cool Skip (Mar 7, 2016)

Holy crap, you guys don't stop!!! My last post was 92 pages ago. Anyway, that's all. Guess I should keep up more often.

oops... now 93 pages

Changed my mega color scheme last week. Feeling silly about that now.


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## Logiqx (Mar 8, 2016)

EvilGnome6 said:


> The results have been up for 24 hours now. Thanks for maintaining the elderly rankings! It's a great motivator for me.



I've updated the results now and I've also uploaded the code to GitHub.

I love how iPython notebooks are rendered properly on GitHub. Click on the ipynb files to see them but don't be too critical of the lazy coding, lol.

https://github.com/Logiqx/wca-ipy


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## mafergut (Mar 8, 2016)

@Grzegorz: You beat me to the top ten at WC by 2 points 
Two weeks in a row getting 11th... by sheer force of the number of events, not because of my good results.

By the way, I ordered a black Aofu GT, it had a nice discount at Lightake so it costs just $36 with shipping... I couldn't resist. Please, don't tell me that I should have ordered it in one of the two stickerless variants.

I will wait for a similar sale to get an Aoshi and complete my WCA puzzle set  Well, I must admit I don't have a clock but... it's not twisty so it doesn't count for me


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## h2f (Mar 8, 2016)

@Miguel - You've noticed it...  I did also mbld but it was 0/2 so dnfed and I didnt add it. I'm back to 5bld and maybe 6bld in this WC...


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## mafergut (Mar 8, 2016)

h2f said:


> @Miguel - You've noticed it...  I did also mbld but it was 0/2 so dnfed and I didnt add it. I'm back to 5bld and maybe 6bld in this WC...



You should have added it. At least you'd get participation points. I was thinking about trying a MBLD of 2 cubes but in the end I was honest and realized in no way I can even try 2 cubes in 20 minutes at this level where just 1 cube takes me 12-15 minutes to rescramble  I wouldn't have been fair to the rest.

I also saw your success (and 1st place in 4BLD). Congratulations!

I will compete at 7x7x7 as soon as my Aofu arrives, even if it takes me 30 minutes to solve


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## h2f (Mar 8, 2016)

Yeah, I was lucky to win in 4bld. I got on a cam and uploaded on yt - there's a lot o pauses and I wasnt expecting to beat my pb. 

I think if you feel comfortable with 3bld you should try multi. I do mbld very seldom but I found it to be a very good practice in bld events.


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## earth2dan (Mar 8, 2016)

mafergut said:


> By the way, I ordered a black Aofu GT, it had a nice discount at Lightake so it costs just $36 with shipping... I couldn't resist. Please, don't tell me that I should have ordered it in one of the two stickerless variants.



You too eh? I saw the sale a few days ago and ordered the AoFu GT from Lightake as well  I got the bright stickerless one, I hope I don't regret it. I expect it'll be a while before I get it. My last order from Lightake was middle of January and it still hasn't arrived. Good ol Lightake; Great deals and free shipping, if you don't mind waiting a couple months...

On another note. I recently complained about the shades on the stickerless Yuxin 5x5. I ended up bringing it into work to be my office 5x5 and under the bright fluorescent lights of the office the shades are actually quite nice. At home I had a lot of trouble with the Red/Orange but here at the office it's a non issue. Still not as nice as the Cyclone Boys shades, but if you've got good lighting I see no reason not to get the stickerless Yuxin 5x5


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## muchacho (Mar 8, 2016)

earth2dan said:


> ... but if you've got good lighting I see no reason not to get the stickerless Yuxin 5x5


Colorblind here, that green (if it is the same as the stickerless Yuxin 4x4) is not "green enough" for me.


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## mafergut (Mar 8, 2016)

earth2dan said:


> You too eh? I saw the sale a few days ago and ordered the AoFu GT from Lightake as well  I got the bright stickerless one, I hope I don't regret it. I expect it'll be a while before I get it. My last order from Lightake was middle of January and it still hasn't arrived. Good ol Lightake; Great deals and free shipping, if you don't mind waiting a couple months...
> 
> On another note. I recently complained about the shades on the stickerless Yuxin 5x5. I ended up bringing it into work to be my office 5x5 and under the bright fluorescent lights of the office the shades are actually quite nice. At home I had a lot of trouble with the Red/Orange but here at the office it's a non issue. Still not as nice as the Cyclone Boys shades, but if you've got good lighting I see no reason not to get the stickerless Yuxin 5x5



Now you're telling me? 
Maybe I will buy a Yuxin in stickerless. Not that I have problem with recognition of the dull shades of my CB 5x5 or that I think it will make me faster but I just want to try by myself the cube everybody talks wonders about.
Regarding the Aofu GT it was just too much money to risk buying the wrong stickerless one. There are two and I'm not sure if one is candy colours and the other is the "bright" or what. Anyway, without having one in my hand I decided to play it safe and get the black one. At least I know I love standard Moyu sticker shades but, to be honest, if I ever have to replace them I will buy a new one instead


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## earth2dan (Mar 8, 2016)

mafergut said:


> Regarding the Aofu GT it was just too much money to risk buying the wrong stickerless one.



No doubt. I struggled for a while with that decision. I watched CrazyBadCubers review and that's what sold me on the stickerless. I sent customer service an email to ensure I get the right one (not pink). They said not to worry 



muchacho said:


> Colorblind here, that green (if it is the same as the stickerless Yuxin 4x4) is not "green enough" for me.


Unfortunately I don't have the stickerless 4x4 so I can't compare. It is definitely a lighter shade of green. I have no troubles with it, but I can see how it might get confused with the yellow if you're colourblind. I have a stickerless thunderclap with a very light shade of green and in low light I have trouble with the green/yellow.


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## mafergut (Mar 8, 2016)

earth2dan said:


> No doubt. I struggled for a while with that decision. I watched CrazyBadCubers review and that's what sold me on the stickerless. I sent customer service an email to ensure I get the right one (not pink). They said not to worry
> 
> 
> Unfortunately I don't have the stickerless 4x4 so I can't compare. It is definitely a lighter shade of green. I have no troubles with it, but I can see how it might get confused with the yellow if you're colourblind. I have a stickerless thunderclap with a very light shade of green and in low light I have trouble with the green/yellow.



I don't have problems telling the colours apart but I prefer the somewhat darker shades of the stickers. I have checked CrazyBadCuber's video and, at least on camera, yellow and green seem to be a bit too bright for my taste so maybe I made the right choice by getting the stickered one. I could live with the bright blue and orange and red seem to have enough contrast. If the colours in the Yuxin 5x5 are more or less the same I would also go for the stickered, black plastic option. So, I will wait until you receive the Aofu and can compare them for me 

Now, Lightake, can you put the Aoshi on sale as well?


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## Jason Green (Mar 8, 2016)

They let me register late for 4x4 and 5x5 for the KC comp.  Question, if I make the hard cut for 4x4 but not the soft cut in two tries, will I still have an official single? I think I've seen this for others. I doubt I'll make the 1:30, but feeling like 2:30 is possible I've had a few.

May do a 4x4 video for tips. 5x5 is a list cause but still gonna participate.


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## EvilGnome6 (Mar 8, 2016)

Jason Green said:


> Question, if I make the hard cut for 4x4 but not the soft cut in two tries, will I still have an official single?



Yes. It's worth the experience even if you don't make the cutoffs.


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## Logiqx (Mar 8, 2016)

Jason Green said:


> Question, if I make the hard cut for 4x4 but not the soft cut in two tries, will I still have an official single?



Yes. So long as one of your first 2 attempts are within the hard cut you will get an official single.


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## h2f (Mar 8, 2016)

In the race in 4x4 to sub-1 for now my times are very inconsistent. Finally I"ve made sub 1:20 ao5 with nice 1:06 single but ao12 was 1:22.


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## moralsh (Mar 8, 2016)

new 4BLD PB, 9:38, Watch out Mark and Grzegorz!


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## h2f (Mar 8, 2016)

Congrats! 9:02 at the moment with mistake during parity - I did r instead of r'.

Edit: 8:44.05. I'm quite happy. I dont remember when I took three attemptes in one sitting. It was a long time ago. So in 5 minutes 3rd attempt for WC.


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## Selkie (Mar 9, 2016)

EvilGnome6 said:


> The results have been up for 24 hours now. Thanks for maintaining the elderly rankings! It's a great motivator for me.



Agree very motivating 



mafergut said:


> @Grzegorz: You beat me to the top ten at WC by 2 points



Wow you guys did great in the WC. Need to get some more events done 



Jason Green said:


> They let me register late for 4x4 and 5x5 for the KC comp.  Question, if I make the hard cut for 4x4 but not the soft cut in two tries, will I still have an official single? I think I've seen this for others. I doubt I'll make the 1:30, but feeling like 2:30 is possible I've had a few.
> 
> May do a 4x4 video for tips. 5x5 is a list cause but still gonna participate.



I am of the mind if you can solve it, compete, it is all valuable practice Jason



moralsh said:


> new 4BLD PB, 9:38, Watch out Mark and Grzegorz!





h2f said:


> Congrats! 9:02 at the moment with mistake during parity - I did r instead of r'.
> Edit: 8:44.05. I'm quite happy. I dont remember when I took three attemptes in one sitting. It was a long time ago. So in 5 minutes 3rd attempt for WC.



Awesome, you guys are excelling at all forms of BLD 



h2f said:


> In the race in 4x4 to sub-1 for now my times are very inconsistent. Finally I"ve made sub 1:20 ao5 with nice 1:06 single but ao12 was 1:22.



That's great Grzegorz! 4x4 times can be very inconsistent, especially if you havn't practiced for while :tu


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## mark49152 (Mar 9, 2016)

moralsh said:


> new 4BLD PB, 9:38, Watch out Mark and Grzegorz!





h2f said:


> Congrats! 9:02 at the moment with mistake during parity - I did r instead of r'.
> 
> Edit: 8:44.05. I'm quite happy. I dont remember when I took three attemptes in one sitting. It was a long time ago. So in 5 minutes 3rd attempt for WC.



Challenge accepted . I haven't practised for a few days and my tines are erratic, but last night got an 8:32 DNF off by 3 wings, a memo mistake. PB success remains 8:58.


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## h2f (Mar 9, 2016)

Yeah - thanks Chris for good words. I'm in 4x4 at the moment. I do normal solving and bld as well.


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## MarcelP (Mar 9, 2016)

h2f said:


> In the race in 4x4 to sub-1 for now my times are very inconsistent. Finally I"ve made sub 1:20 ao5 with nice 1:06 single but ao12 was 1:22.



I did an Ao12 today:

Generated By csTimer on 2016-3-9
solves/total: 12/12

single
best: 1:23.02
worst: 2:07.12

mean of 3
current: 1:41.39 (σ = 11.24)
best: 1:33.08 (σ = 9.29)

avg of 5
current: 1:43.81 (σ = 3.00)
best: 1:37.06 (σ = 3.70)

avg of 12
current: 1:42.83 (σ = 8.00)
best: 1:42.83 (σ = 8.00)

Average: 1:42.83 (σ = 8.00)
Mean: 1:43.21


Pretty good for me. I think sub 1 one day might be doable if I do some practice every day. 



EvilGnome6 said:


> Yes. It's worth the experience even if you don't make the cutoffs.



I agree. It's good to get used to solve under pressure. However, my first 5x5 attempt in competition had a 5:00 cuttoff and I finished 5:03 and got a DNF.. That blows big time


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## moralsh (Mar 9, 2016)

when organizing, we don't usually are that severe, we only DNF hard cutoffs if they're far from ending when reaching the cutoff. I would have registered that 5:03.

Soft cutoffs on the other hand are strict.

No luck with today's 4BLD 10:32 DNF by 2 centers and 3 wings


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## newtonbase (Mar 9, 2016)

MarcelP said:


> I agree. It's good to get used to solve under pressure. However, my first 5x5 attempt in competition had a 5:00 cuttoff and I finished 5:03 and got a DNF.. That blows big time



I've had a 5:03 DNF'd too. It's very harsh as it doesn't save anyone any time.


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## mark49152 (Mar 9, 2016)

New 4x4 PB Ao50 = 1:10.38 - wiped off nearly two seconds in two sessions!


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## mafergut (Mar 9, 2016)

Well, all this rage with 4x4 is making me practise a bit and, man I needed it, as I'm just starting to get into big cubes as you probably know. I'm happy because I've come to a point where I get more solves under 2 minutes that above 2 minutes. Let's keep it up until I get all solves under 2 minutes  The Guansu is starting to break in and it's becoming nicer.


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## muchacho (Mar 9, 2016)

New PB on 3x3: 15.455 (last was 16.216 from 3 days ago)

It was an easy scramble, it had a 2x2 block on blue/white:
L2 D U2 R2 U2 L2 B2 R2 D L2 D2 B' U' R2 B' R U B2 U2 L' U'


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## Jason Green (Mar 9, 2016)

Nice, you passed me again! My Tapatalk is having issues, so I'm having to use mobile site which I had never even seen.


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## muchacho (Mar 9, 2016)

Only because I'm having some luck with singles, but I don't have "luck" for an Ao100 

Reconstruction:
x2 y
R2 U M' U2 B
U R2 U' M R U R' U M2 U2 Rw U Rw' U M U2 M2 Rw' U' Rw
U' R U R' U R U L' U R' U' L
U2 M U2 M' U M' M2 U M U2 M

https://alg.cubing.net/?setup=L2_D_..._R_U_L-_U_R-_U-_L
U2_M_U2_M-_U_M-_M2_U_M_U2_M

Not the most efficient, I don't care now


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## mafergut (Mar 9, 2016)

muchacho said:


> New PB on 3x3: 15.455 (last was 16.216 from 3 days ago)
> 
> It was an easy scramble, it had a 2x2 block on blue/white:
> L2 D U2 R2 U2 L2 B2 R2 D L2 D2 B' U' R2 B' R U B2 U2 L' U'



Wow! That's a significant improvement!!!! More than 0.7sec is a lot. Congratulations!
I'm just improving my 3x3 PB single by 0.1 if at all. One of my top 4 singles is still from 1 year and a half ago (Sept 2014).


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## Lid (Mar 9, 2016)

New 4x4 a5 PB today  too bad it was not sub1 thou  This was also my 2nd pure sub1 mean of 3 (57.568), I think ...

59.623[DP], 58.524, (54.556), 1:02.823, (1:10.323[DP]) = *1:00.323*


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## EvilGnome6 (Mar 9, 2016)

Lid said:


> New 4x4 a5 PB today  too bad it was not sub1 thou  This was also my 2nd pure sub1 mean of 3 (57.568), I think ...
> 
> 59.623[DP], 58.524, (54.556), 1:02.823, (1:10.323[DP]) = *1:00.323*



Very nice. I'm going to focus on 4x4 until I'm sub 1. I got two sub 1 singles during my lunch break yesterday which doubled the total number of of sub 1s I have done. I can already feel myself turning the cube faster.


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## Jason Green (Mar 9, 2016)

muchacho said:


> Only because I'm having some luck with singles, but I don't have "luck" for an Ao100
> 
> Reconstruction:
> x2 y
> ...



Well I only passed you by a lucky single too.


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## Shaky Hands (Mar 9, 2016)

muchacho said:


> Only because I'm having some luck with singles, but I don't have "luck" for an Ao100
> 
> Reconstruction:
> x2 y
> ...



Well done. Other than the [M' M2] it's not that inefficient. Can't think of many sub-50 move solves I've managed to date.


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## Selkie (Mar 9, 2016)

@David - Nice 3x3 pb single there :tu

@4x4 - Wow, lots of awesome results guys, loving the 4x4 concentration in the thread and the race to sub 1. Doing an Ao50 tonight as my wife is studying but yesterday had my first sub 2:15 Ao12 on 5x5 and a 1:55.x single.

Had a confusing moment today, haven't been getting great averages on my YueXiao so did some solves on my Gans 356 v1 and flew. Some more testing needed but it may be that although I love the feel of the YueXiao I don't think I can get great TPS on it


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## muchacho (Mar 9, 2016)

Shaky Hands said:


> Well done. Other than the [M' M2] it's not that inefficient. Can't think of many sub-50 move solves I've managed to date.


Thanks. 20 moves for a second block must be too much. After the first block there was an already made pair, if I had seen it then second block would have probably taken me 17 moves. There are probably better solutions (but none that I could see at speed).


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## MarcelP (Mar 9, 2016)

Selkie said:


> .. so did some solves on my Gans 356 v1 and flew. Some more testing needed but it may be that although I love the feel of the YueXiao I don't think I can get great TPS on it



No further testing is needed I tell you. Yuexiao is nowhere near the greatness of Gans  I am still at deciding between TangLong and Gans V1  I like them equally good.


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## mark49152 (Mar 9, 2016)

h2f said:


> 8:44.05


8:41.22


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## h2f (Mar 9, 2016)

Awsome!



Spoiler


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## mark49152 (Mar 9, 2016)

h2f said:


> Awsome!


LOL, oh man. Very nice solve! What with the 4x4 race to sub-1 and now a 4BLD race, I may have taken on too much .


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## h2f (Mar 9, 2016)

Ok.  race to sub 7? Or just race. I found many Joy in 4BLD in last fe days. .

patataj patataj patataj


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## newtonbase (Mar 10, 2016)

My quest to understand commutators is progressing very slowly. The best sources I can find are the BH threads on this site but I still crave a nice set of written rules. When I get there I'll have to write my own. 
Meanwhile my untimed 3BLD success rate it getting very high but I'm still only just over 1 in 3 when timed and fairly consistently low 3 mins. 3x3 and 4x4 progress is slow and massively hampered by my persistent inability to find pieces.


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## mark49152 (Mar 10, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> My quest to understand commutators is progressing very slowly.


It might be contentious and it's only opinion, but I would say forget about commutators until you're consistently sub-2 with good success rate. The reason is simple - you have to think too much and it will hamper improvement and become demoralising. That's my experience of commutators anyway . I do still play with them occasionally for fun though.


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## mark49152 (Mar 10, 2016)

h2f said:


> Ok.  race to sub 7? Or just race. I found many Joy in 4BLD in last fe days.


Yeah 4BLD is great fun. Race to 7 sounds good


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## Jason Green (Mar 10, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> Yeah 4BLD is great fun. Race to 7 sounds good


I'll try to get a sub 7 single on 5x5 before you get there on 4 BLD. [emoji12]


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## kbrune (Mar 10, 2016)

I thought I had learned yau when I started learning 4x4 but I realized I switched to something different. And then I forgot that it wasn't the true yau method lol
I do opposite centers, remaining 4 centers. Cross edge pairing (inserting each into bottom layer as I go) then I pair remaining edges and continue with parity and 3x3.
I wondered if anyone else solved 4x4 this way. 

I remember having a hard time with solving centers after having 3 edges done and only using that one free edge spot to manipulate center pieces. It was messing me up. I've been wondering lately wether I should put some effort into using true yau method. wether it would improve my times or not.


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## Jason Green (Mar 10, 2016)

kbrune said:


> I thought I had learned yau when I started learning 4x4 but I realized I switched to something different. And then I forgot that it wasn't the true yau method lol
> I do opposite centers, remaining 4 centers. Cross edge pairing (inserting each into bottom layer as I go) then I pair remaining edges and continue with parity and 3x3.
> I wondered if anyone else solved 4x4 this way.
> 
> I remember having a hard time with solving centers after having 3 edges done and only using that one free edge spot to manipulate center pieces. It was messing me up. I've been wondering lately wether I should put some effort into using true yau method. wether it would improve my times or not.


Have you tried Hoya? It's pretty easy conceptually, I like it. But I'm no good yet 4*4.


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## newtonbase (Mar 10, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> It might be contentious and it's only opinion, but I would say forget about commutators until you're consistently sub-2 with good success rate. The reason is simple - you have to think too much and it will hamper improvement and become demoralising. That's my experience of commutators anyway . I do still play with them occasionally for fun though.



I don't plan to use them yet. It's more that I'm frustrated that I don't understand them properly. It's my memo speed that's slowing me down at the moment.


----------



## earth2dan (Mar 10, 2016)

kbrune said:


> I thought I had learned yau when I started learning 4x4 but I realized I switched to something different. And then I forgot that it wasn't the true yau method lol
> I do opposite centers, remaining 4 centers. Cross edge pairing (inserting each into bottom layer as I go) then I pair remaining edges and continue with parity and 3x3.
> I wondered if anyone else solved 4x4 this way.
> 
> I remember having a hard time with solving centers after having 3 edges done and only using that one free edge spot to manipulate center pieces. It was messing me up. I've been wondering lately wether I should put some effort into using true yau method. wether it would improve my times or not.



What you're doing is basically just normal reduction method. Only you hunt for your cross edges first. With Yau you build opposite centers, 3 cross edges, last 4 centers, last cross edge, last 8 edges, then parity and 3x3.

I do it slightly different from what the tutorials told me to do though. When I build my cross edges I build them on the bottom, and I put them in the right order rather than missaligning one edge. Then I build my centers and pair the last cross edge like any other edge and insert it. It's a few extra moves this way, but I found it to be much faster because I regularly made mistakes using the traditional Yau method. It's much easier for me to just put my cross edges in order to begin with and take a couple extra moves to build that last cross edge and insert it. I think this was actually a tip from Felix Zemdegs in one of his 4x4 videos that I watched.

I just graduated 1:30 in the 4x4 race thread and I've still got lots of room for improvement, so I don't think I'm sacrificing too much with my modified Yau method


----------



## h2f (Mar 10, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> My quest to understand commutators is progressing very slowly. The best sources I can find are the BH threads on this site but I still crave a nice set of written rules. When I get there I'll have to write my own.



Happy to hear it.



mark49152 said:


> It might be contentious and it's only opinion, but I would say forget about commutators until you're consistently sub-2 with good success rate. The reason is simple - you have to think too much and it will hamper improvement and become demoralising. That's my experience of commutators anyway . I do still play with them occasionally for fun though.



I'm sure, I've learnt comms too early and you are right. But after almost a year when I started to use comms for corners and for centers in big blindes it pays off. Comms need tons of solves to become usefull. 



mark49152 said:


> Yeah 4BLD is great fun. Race to 7 sounds good



Ok. So the race to sub-7.  



earth2dan said:


> What you're doing is basically just normal reduction method. Only you hunt for your cross edges first. With Yau you build opposite centers, 3 cross edges, last 4 centers, last cross edge, last 8 edges, then parity and 3x3.
> 
> I do it slightly different from what the tutorials told me to do though. When I build my cross edges I build them on the bottom, and I put them in the right order rather than missaligning one edge. Then I build my centers and pair the last cross edge like any other edge and insert it. It's a few extra moves this way, but I found it to be much faster because I regularly made mistakes using the traditional Yau method. It's much easier for me to just put my cross edges in order to begin with and take a couple extra moves to build that last cross edge and insert it. I think this was actually a tip from Felix Zemdegs in one of his 4x4 videos that I watched.



I do the same but I do cross on the left. I've seen it in one of walkthrough - dont remember who it was.


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## moralsh (Mar 10, 2016)

congrats almost everybody on your 4x4 PBs and to muchacho on that single.

Race to sub 7? ok, I'll race  but first I have to sub 9 and sub 8  I think at this stage, using center comms is making me slower but I'll stick to it.

this morning 9:31.08 I'll start to stackmat them soon


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## h2f (Mar 10, 2016)

I thought about you Raul if you would join.

Just few minutes ago: 7:32.31 but dnf - wrong corner twist (wrong memo). I'm trying to add as many tricks as I can from advanced M2 - in other words I'm trying to do as many wings as I can with 3cycle. And also I'm trying to speed up my centers because I think comms on centers are slowing me down due to lack of practice. I think that to be sub 7 I need memo around 3 minutes and execute around 4. If my memo is longer my execution must be faster. In this solve (7:32) my memo was around 3:37 so my execution was a little sub 4 (3:55) with 20 seconds execution lock up and both parities. So it looks like it's not so far but the key is memo. My memo tends to be longer in 3rd or 4th attempt being over 5 minutes.

BTW - 8000 replies in this thread!


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## mafergut (Mar 10, 2016)

Races are all the rage now 
But none of these is suitable for me. Well, I can participate in the 4x4 RTS1min... I will not win but maybe I will improve in the process.
The RTS7min at 4BLD is going to be the star event. Please, guys, keep us all posted and good luck!!!


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## h2f (Mar 10, 2016)

I try push. Morning solves before a job. I got ao5 under 1:20 with 4 solves in a row with parities (both or oll parity). And finally ao12 sub 1:20


Spoiler



Generated By csTimer on 2016-3-10
solves/total: 20/20

single
best: 1:06.15
worst: 1:45.10

mean of 3
current: 1:17.18 (σ = 5.44)
best: 1:13.34 (σ = 4.38)

avg of 5
current: 1:17.18 (σ = 5.44)
best: 1:15.06 (σ = 7.24)

avg of 12
current: 1:17.99 (σ = 5.53)
best: 1:17.99 (σ = 5.53)

Average: 1:21.25 (σ = 6.97)
Mean: 1:21.69

Time List:
1:29.14, 1:18.61, 1:32.41, 1:33.89, 1:45.10, 1:16.68, 1:18.37, 1:25.90, 1:27.55, 1:16.60, 1:18.04, 1:12.56, 1:09.40, 1:25.49, 1:23.21, 1:06.15, 1:23.04, 1:22.36, 1:11.50, 1:17.65


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## Jason Green (Mar 10, 2016)

Man I can regress quickly! I had a few days with limited practice and last night I say down and was averaging over 25 for first 50 solves I think. I was a little tired too which is a factor. 

Now that I'm practicing 4x4 and 5x5 I'm enjoying all the forum races available! Of course I probably won't do the ao12 race for 5x5 cause it would take all day now.


----------



## mafergut (Mar 10, 2016)

Jason Green said:


> Man I can regress quickly! I had a few days with limited practice and last night I say down and was averaging over 25 for first 50 solves I think. I was a little tired too which is a factor.
> 
> Now that I'm practicing 4x4 and 5x5 I'm enjoying all the forum races available! Of course I probably won't do the ao12 race for 5x5 cause it would take all day now.



I'd say that was more of a bad day than a regression due to lack of practise. It happens to me frequently. Not every day I can be at my best 
I should also participate in the 4x4 (and maybe 5x5) race threads but, to be honest, I have enough with the couple 3x3 races I'm in and the WC with like 15 different events and growing  

But maybe if you are there as well I could try  What time are you racing against? For me it would be maybe sub 1:45 at the moment. I'm close but not there yet.


----------



## Jason Green (Mar 10, 2016)

mafergut said:


> I'd say that was more of a bad day than a regression due to lack of practise. It happens to me frequently. Not every day I can be at my best[emoji14]I should also participate in the 4x4 (and maybe 5x5) race threads but, to be honest, I have enough with the couple 3x3 races I'm in and the WC with like 15 different events and growing
> 
> But maybe if you are there as well I could try  What time are you racing against? For me it would be maybe sub 1:45 at the moment. I'm close but not there yet.


I'm just racing against 2:30 for 4x4. I'm close but still over.  Racing 10 seconds on the 2x2 also. 

I've never figured out what WC is? I know a lot of the guys here are from Europe, but I don't think you are talking about the toilet.  Web competition? Weekly?


----------



## APdRF (Mar 10, 2016)

Weekly competition: https://www.speedsolving.com/competitions/index.php?sessYear=2016


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## earth2dan (Mar 10, 2016)

Jason Green said:


> I've never figured out what WC is? I know a lot of the guys here are from Europe, but I don't think you are talking about the toilet.  Web competition? Weekly?





APdRF said:


> Weekly competition: https://www.speedsolving.com/competitions/index.php?sessYear=2016



How did I not know about this?...


----------



## Jason Green (Mar 10, 2016)

earth2dan said:


> How did I not know about this?...


Thanks. I have been doing that race also. I think of the other race threads as weekly comps too (and web comps) so I was not sure the context people were using.


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## mafergut (Mar 10, 2016)

Jason Green said:


> Thanks. I have been doing that race also. I think of the other race threads as weekly comps too (and web comps) so I was not sure the context people were using.



Sorry, I'm using WC a lot to avoid writing Weekly Competition every time, assuming that everybody would know but, of course, that can mean so many things, including the toilet, as you say


----------



## Selkie (Mar 10, 2016)

Jason Green said:


> Man I can regress quickly! I had a few days with limited practice and last night I say down and was averaging over 25 for first 50 solves I think. I was a little tired too which is a factor.
> 
> Now that I'm practicing 4x4 and 5x5 I'm enjoying all the forum races available! Of course I probably won't do the ao12 race for 5x5 cause it would take all day now.



Don't worry that is normal though very frustrating. Last couple of days I can barely average sub 16.5 when I am now down to just sub 16.


Been concentrating a lot on 4x4 and 5x5 and very pleased with 5x5 progress, getting very close to sub 2:15 overall.

The tracking on my large Cubicle order shows it left London yesterday morning so I hope it will be here tomorrow together with a mammoth unboxing 

Edit: That parcel contains my Tanlong Marcel, look forward to trying it after your endorsement :tu


----------



## Jason Green (Mar 10, 2016)

I should also be getting my tanglong and yuexiao tomorrow I believe!


----------



## APdRF (Mar 10, 2016)

I just did a LOT of practice, WC should be mandatory


----------



## newtonbase (Mar 10, 2016)

My super slow Lightake delivery has arrived. There's a stickerless Zhanchi 2x2, a stickerless Qiyi pyraminx, a black Guansu and a black Guoguan Yuexiao. I don't know where to start.


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## earth2dan (Mar 10, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> My super slow Lightake delivery has arrived. There's a stickerless Zhanchi 2x2, a stickerless Qiyi pyraminx, a black Guansu and a black Guoguan Yuexiao. I don't know where to start.



Cool. We've been all about 4x4 here lately, might as well break in that Guansu


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## kbrune (Mar 10, 2016)

@Jason Green

Haven't tried Hoya. I'll have to look it up and see if it might work for me. I feel like my brain will never have enough processing speed no matter what method I use. Lol

@earth2dan

Weekly comp is a blast. I love it. I get to practice everything. I did a ao12 on 4x4 today with yau. My ave was around 2:17.xx. I like the vision while using yau, I feel like finding edge pieces would be easier. but the last 4 centers after 3 edges really slows me down. I'm constantly thinking about not screwing up the 3 edges and the position of the empty edge slot.


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## h2f (Mar 10, 2016)

@Kbrune,

About centers in yau - have you tried half centers method? I'm not sure but I've watched it on Jacob Huntyk yt channel. I use it in my solves.


----------



## Selkie (Mar 10, 2016)

kbrune said:


> Weekly comp is a blast. I love it. I get to practice everything. I did a ao12 on 4x4 today with yau. My ave was around 2:17.xx. I like the vision while using yau, I feel like finding edge pieces would be easier. but the last 4 centers after 3 edges really slows me down. I'm constantly thinking about not screwing up the 3 edges and the position of the empty edge slot.



Agreed you can see far more with Yau (or same with Hoya) than with reduction. Maintaining the three solved cross edges just takes practice. It may help just to make a rule that once you have them on the left and side you do not release you left hand grip at all, it may help. Best of luck


----------



## mark49152 (Mar 10, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> I don't plan to use them yet. It's more that I'm frustrated that I don't understand them properly. It's my memo speed that's slowing me down at the moment.


Yeah memo is huge. Mine still accounts for >50% of solve time, typically. More like 60-70% on 4BLD.



h2f said:


> I'm sure, I've learnt comms too early and you are right. But after almost a year when I started to use comms for corners and for centers in big blindes it pays off. Comms need tons of solves to become usefull.


Each OP corner takes me <3 seconds with no pauses in between, so a corner comm has to be <5 seconds including thinking time, for it to be worthwhile for me. That's actually pretty difficult. I would need a huge amount of practice with comms for it to pay off. My plan is to introduce a few really easy/fast/obvious ones very slowly and blend them in with my OP (like for example using A-perm for UBR-UFR).


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## newtonbase (Mar 11, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> Yeah memo is huge. Mine still accounts for >50% of solve time, typically. More like 60-70% on 4BLD.
> 
> 
> Each OP corner takes me <3 seconds with no pauses in between, so a corner comm has to be <5 seconds including thinking time, for it to be worthwhile for me. That's actually pretty difficult. I would need a huge amount of practice with comms for it to pay off. My plan is to introduce a few really easy/fast/obvious ones very slowly and blend them in with my OP (like for example using A-perm for UBR-UFR).



I haven't done any splits but I'm pretty sure memo is well over 50% of my 3BLD times. Comms will come in useful one day. 
I was really looking forward to my cube delivery but it's a very mixed bag out of the box. The Zhanchi 2x2 seems sluggish but may be better with work. Likewise the Qiyi pyraminx. I do have a problem with stickerless puzzles at the moment as the weather is making my skin really dry so grip is a big issue. 
The Guansu is incredibly good value it does turn a little slow but I think a bit of lube and breaking in will help. 
The star of the show is the Guoguan Yuexiao. (Does the name remind anyone else of Father Ted?) It had me at the first turn. The feel and the sound are luscious. It's easily the nicest cube I've ever held. There are issues with controllability and catching but a little practice and an Older Çuber (was MarcelP) mod should sort that.. 
Anyway, it's after midnight, my son won't sleep, I've had more vodka than Thursday allows and my phone is about to die and I still haven't done my daily 3BLD solve so night all.


----------



## ryuusei86 (Mar 11, 2016)

Belated happy 800 page-i-versary! 

I just got the second of two orders from cubezz. It contained a void cube and a 3x3x2, both by LanLan, and this thing which I had been quite excited about. I've restickered both LanLan puzzles and spent about 45 minutes solving the void cube, which I'd never have been able to do if I hadn't found an ancient thread on this forum about an edge parity fix. The 3x3x2 turns the best of all three puzzles. The "Super Square-1" is just weird and noisy, but perhaps it will grow on me. I was thinking that it might actually be easier to solve than a normal square-1, but perhaps I was wrong.

The FastTech order with three Dayan 3x3s (I think a ZhanChi, a LunHui, and a GuHong v1) is supposedly on its way and should be here any day now. I have yet to touch the Meffert's Fisher cube from the Cubicle and the 2x2x2 mirror blocks from the first cubezz order, because they frighten me.


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## h2f (Mar 11, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> Yeah memo is huge. Mine still accounts for >50% of solve time, typically. More like 60-70% on 4BLD.
> 
> 
> Each OP corner takes me <3 seconds with no pauses in between, so a corner comm has to be <5 seconds including thinking time, for it to be worthwhile for me. That's actually pretty difficult. I would need a huge amount of practice with comms for it to pay off. My plan is to introduce a few really easy/fast/obvious ones very slowly and blend them in with my OP (like for example using A-perm for UBR-UFR).



I agree with that point of view. My memo is between 30 - 50% of the solve.


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## MarcelP (Mar 11, 2016)

Selkie said:


> Edit: That parcel contains my Tanlong Marcel, look forward to trying it after your endorsement :tu



My Tanglong was great out of the box, but after 1000 solves or so became smoother and faster.. So... hang in there..


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## mafergut (Mar 11, 2016)

MarcelP said:


> My Tanglong was great out of the box, but after 1000 solves or so became smoother and faster.. So... hang in there..



My Tanglong is also growing on me with every solve. After I beat my PB Ao50 & 100 last week with it I have declared it my new main, even on top of my beloved Chilong 
This week, during my commute I have been breaking in my Yuexiao. It's very nice and all that but I still prefer the Tanglong. I will have to break in the Tornado as well but, for now I don't particularly like its feeling. Too similar to the Yuxin 3x3 for my taste it deforms due to the enormous holes between pieces and also tends to release with a bit too much force when corner cutting (not sure if I can explain this well but when you try to cut it looks like it won't turn, then you force it a bit and then bam! it turns and it completely breaks the flow of the alg).


----------



## muchacho (Mar 11, 2016)

Mine was slow, and a bit catchy.. well, maybe that was because of my bad turning accuracy... but it was definitely slow for me (especially M moves), and it didn't become faster with solves... I'll try it again.


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## mafergut (Mar 11, 2016)

muchacho said:


> Mine was slow, and a bit catchy.. well, maybe that was because of my bad turning accuracy... but it was definitely slow for me (especially M moves), and it didn't become faster with solves... I'll try it again.



Yeah, it's definitely on the slow side and M slices may not be the best out there so, for Roux it's perhaps not the ideal cube but it's so stable... so, for me it compensates that. Regarding the catching it completely went away after some hundreds of solves.


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## Selkie (Mar 11, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> The star of the show is the Guoguan Yuexiao. (Does the name remind anyone else of Father Ted?) It had me at the first turn. The feel and the sound are luscious. It's easily the nicest cube I've ever held. There are issues with controllability and catching but a little practice and an Older Çuber (was MarcelP) mod should sort that...



I completely agree, it had me at the first turn too and as a 3x3 I 'prefer' it to anything else, I just cannot solve as fast on it as my Gans 356 v1



MarcelP said:


> My Tanglong was great out of the box, but after 1000 solves or so became smoother and faster.. So... hang in there..





mafergut said:


> My Tanglong is also growing on me with every solve.



My Tanglong should be here with my Cubicle order today, Im looking forward to solving on it :tu

Edit: No parcel today


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## muchacho (Mar 11, 2016)

For the megaminx I'm starting to build pairs instead of inserting one piece at a time, how should I approach this? just (really) slow solves trying to match the pieces intuitively? would help trying to learn it first on a 3x3? any tips?


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## Selkie (Mar 11, 2016)

muchacho said:


> For the megaminx I'm starting to build pairs instead of inserting one piece at a time, how should I approach this? just (really) slow solves trying to match the pieces intuitively? would help trying to learn it first on a 3x3? any tips?



I used the same F2L algorythms on Megaminx, well sort of but don't take my word for it, never was very good at Megaminx


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## kbrune (Mar 11, 2016)

Are you all from eastern countries? I know Marcel is. Seems like there isn't much activity when I post. Then I wake up in the morning and I'm 2-3 pages behind in dialogue lol. I'm in Canada btw

@muchacho
I solve everything up to LL with pairs. Although middle layer would be pair plus 1 edge I suppose. I'm new at mega though so I'm sure I'm no where near optimal solving. My pb is 5:57.xx


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## muchacho (Mar 11, 2016)

I think I'll go through all the F2L algs and see what each one does, it may be the faster way.

Almost sub-4 single: 4:01

I'm liking megaminx, I'll try to get "fast"... what I don't like is the Yuhu, I'm buying a Shengshou and I'll try to mod it.



kbrune said:


> Are you all from eastern countries? I know Marcel is. Seems like there isn't much activity when I post. Then I wake up in the morning and I'm 2-3 pages behind in dialogue lol. I'm in Canada btw
> 
> @muchacho
> I solve everything up to LL with pairs. Although middle layer would be pair plus 1 edge I suppose. I'm new at mega though so I'm sure I'm no where near optimal solving. My pb is 5:57.xx


Not all, but I think there are more from Europe.

My problem with making pairs is that I use Roux, I've never learned CFOP (so also no F2L), it's a bit different, it will take me some time to "master" F2L on the megaminx.


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## Isaac Lai (Mar 11, 2016)

muchacho said:


> I think I'll go through all the F2L algs and see what each one does, it may be the faster way.
> 
> Almost sub-4 single: 4:01
> 
> ...



Some algs need not necessarily done the same way on megaminx as on 3x3 because you can use more layers on the megaminx to solve pairs more efficiently. Also, Artur Kristof uses Roux and is sub-1 on megaminx.


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## muchacho (Mar 11, 2016)

Thanks Isaac!


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## mafergut (Mar 11, 2016)

muchacho said:


> For the megaminx I'm starting to build pairs instead of inserting one piece at a time, how should I approach this? just (really) slow solves trying to match the pieces intuitively? would help trying to learn it first on a 3x3? any tips?



I'd recommend you to start intuitively and, if you find it difficult you can always watch intuitive 3x3 F2L tutorials like badmephisto or others. You will soon get the hang of the basic cases that can appear on a Megaminx.


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## h2f (Mar 11, 2016)

Isaac Lai said:


> Some algs need not necessarily done the same way on megaminx as on 3x3 because you can use more layers on the megaminx to solve pairs more efficiently. Also, Artur Kristof uses Roux and is sub-1 on megaminx.



Artur Kristof used CFOP before he switched Roux. And he was good at it.


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## muchacho (Mar 11, 2016)

ok, I'll try to do it intuitively at first, but I'm pretty sure I'll cheat sooner or later.


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## MarcelP (Mar 11, 2016)

Selkie said:


> Edit: No parcel today



I unboxed the GuanSu 4x4 and TangPo 2x2. It was a bit out of frame so I am not uploading it. Both seem great cubes.


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## kbrune (Mar 11, 2016)

@muchacho

Makes sense! F2L pairing is the only reason I can solve a megaminx. Was any of roux transferable for you?


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## mafergut (Mar 11, 2016)

muchacho said:


> I think I'll go through all the F2L algs and see what each one does, it may be the faster way.
> 
> Almost sub-4 single: 4:01
> 
> ...





muchacho said:


> ok, I'll try to do it intuitively at first, but I'm pretty sure I'll cheat sooner or later.



Yeah, you definitely should start with intuitive F2L as most algs will not directly transfer to Megaminx, so I don't think you will be able to cheat even if you wanted to 

You are now faster than me. My PB single continues to be the 4:04 I got last week but, of course, I still have to solve this week's comp scrambles and maybe some warm-up ones, so I'm really expecting my first sub-4 soon.



MarcelP said:


> I unboxed the GuanSu 4x4 and TangPo 2x2. It was a bit out of frame so I am not uploading it. Both seem great cubes.



Tell us about the GuanSu. Mine is starting to break in but my solves are still not fluid. It's lighter to turn (less resistance) than my AoSu but it still catches a bit more, even though I loosened it a bit.

Regarding the TangPo I have heard that it is just a LingPo with bigger stickers  but with the same internal catches as that one (and the YuPo). But very recently YJ has released ANOTHER 2x2, the GuanPo and if it is as good value for money as the GuanSu I think I will try it. It's less than $3 in cubezz and zcube. I'll get one with my next order  but I don't think it will retire my dayan.


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## muchacho (Mar 11, 2016)

kbrune said:


> @muchacho
> 
> Makes sense! F2L pairing is the only reason I can solve a megaminx. Was any of roux transferable for you?



Not much I suppose, in Roux I make pairs, but using the middle layer (a lot). It feels weird, but I'll be fine.



mafergut said:


> Yeah, you definitely should start with intuitive F2L as most algs will not directly transfer to Megaminx, so I don't think you will be able to cheat even if you wanted to
> 
> You are now faster than me. My PB single continues to be the 4:04 I got last week but, of course, I still have to solve this week's comp scrambles and maybe some warm-up ones, so I'm really expecting my first sub-4 soon.


I'm at 4:30 on average, I stopped solving the megaminx just two days, I like it too much, I wanted to try 5x5 but it'll have to wait.

I've just watched badmephisto F2L videos, that's enough for a start.


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## Jason Green (Mar 11, 2016)

kbrune said:


> Are you all from eastern countries? I know Marcel is. Seems like there isn't much activity when I post. Then I wake up in the morning and I'm 2-3 pages behind in dialogue lol. I'm in Canada btw
> 
> @muchacho
> I solve everything up to LL with pairs. Although middle layer would be pair plus 1 edge I suppose. I'm new at mega though so I'm sure I'm no where near optimal solving. My pb is 5:57.xx


I'm from the US, and Mike D is. Who else am I forgetting?


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## mafergut (Mar 11, 2016)

muchacho said:


> I'm at 4:30 on average, I stopped solving the megaminx just two days, I like it too much, I wanted to try 5x5 but it'll have to wait.
> 
> I've just watched badmephisto F2L videos, that's enough for a start.



My average is a bit above that at the moment. Today I did some solves and got a PB Ao5 of 4:19 but on average I'm around 4:35 or so. I couldn't get a sub-4 today. Best solve was 4:05, not even PB  I'm also enjoying Mega a lot but I don't really want to invest time in modding my SS, I'm just hoping the catches will improve with solves but not much for now  If you keep practising and learning F2L you're gonna leave me in the dust pretty soon


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## kbrune (Mar 11, 2016)

I can't seem to figure out how to grip the megaminx in a good way to produce some finger trick friendly solves. Everytime I try to flick with my left finger at least 3-4 faces shift and jam everything up. Currently stuck at 6 min average for multiple reasons. I also have a hard time just finding pieces to solve as I go.


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## muchacho (Mar 11, 2016)

Until the LL I don't use my left hand that much apart from holding the megaminx.

Do you solve the pieces in the same order? that's helping me, while I'm solving one piece I remember which one is next and try to find or follow it while still solving the previous one.


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## mark49152 (Mar 11, 2016)

So I haven't made any vids since the day I got my camera, and today I thought, hey I'll film some 4x4. And what happens? First four solves give me a PB ao5 of 1:03.36. Watch out Chris I'm comin' for ya


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## h2f (Mar 11, 2016)

Awsome Mark. Congrats.


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## mafergut (Mar 11, 2016)

muchacho said:


> Until the LL I don't use my left hand that much apart from holding the megaminx.
> 
> Do you solve the pieces in the same order? that's helping me, while I'm solving one piece I remember which one is next and try to find or follow it while still solving the previous one.



Yeah, solving in a specific order definitely helps. I can believe that I just did the WC scrambles and also failed to get a sub-4 with a 4:01  I locked up badly while doing the U2 to align the LL to finish the solve and had to do a U3' instead. I should have just stopped the timer and add a +2 and it would have been a 3:58 or 3:59, grrrrr.


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## kbrune (Mar 11, 2016)

muchacho said:


> Until the LL I don't use my left hand that much apart from holding the megaminx.
> 
> Do you solve the pieces in the same order? that's helping me, while I'm solving one piece I remember which one is next and try to find or follow it while still solving the previous one.



Yeah I've been following the same colour sequence for the last 15 solves or so. I'm sure I'll save time when I have the colour pattern down. I'm just not too motivated to spend 6-7 minutes on one solve lol


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## newtonbase (Mar 11, 2016)

I'm less and less impressed with the Zhanchi 2x2. Gave it a little stretch this evening and the pieces came away in my hand. My Tangpo and Lingpo are both quicker and sturdier.


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## Selkie (Mar 11, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> So I haven't made any vids since the day I got my camera, and today I thought, hey I'll film some 4x4. And what happens? First four solves give me a PB ao5 of 1:03.36. Watch out Chris I'm comin' for ya



Coming for me! Caught me more like Mark, that is sub my PB, awesome work mate, really really impressive. My 4x4 has been lackluster at best last couple of days and believe it or not I am struggling to sub 1:10 globally. 5x5 is being kinder to me at the moment.

I have to work tomorrow and on decorating duties Sunday by order of my good lady wife so not sure what practice I will get this weekend but will try and get an Ao25 done.

Edit: If anyone in UK is doing a Cubicle order in the not too distant future let em know. I only need some Gans 356 v1 stickers which isnt worth an order on its own.


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## mafergut (Mar 11, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> I'm less and less impressed with the Zhanchi 2x2. Gave it a little stretch this evening and the pieces came away in my hand. My Tangpo and Lingpo are both quicker and sturdier.



You need to take your time to break it in (maybe a couple thousand solves), lube it and tension it correctly. I had the same 1st impression that you just had but now it's my best 2x2 hands down. Mine is black with stickers, though, not sure about the stickerless.


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## Selkie (Mar 11, 2016)

At last first sub 4 minute 6x6 solve though too close for comfort ... 3:59.17. Had PLL parity too


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## Logiqx (Mar 11, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> So I haven't made any vids since the day I got my camera, and today I thought, hey I'll film some 4x4. And what happens? First four solves give me a PB ao5 of 1:03.36. Watch out Chris I'm comin' for ya
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1vNjOzxeAZA



I'm impressed... GJ!

Today I did my second 4x4 timed session since ABHC 2015. I'm reasonably happy with a 1:25 session average (20 solves) considering the complete lack of practice but man... you've pulled way ahead!

BTW. Is that the regular sized AoSu Mark?


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## Jason Green (Mar 12, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> So I haven't made any vids since the day I got my camera, and today I thought, hey I'll film some 4x4. And what happens? First four solves give me a PB ao5 of 1:03.36. Watch out Chris I'm comin' for ya



Very cool!


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## mark49152 (Mar 12, 2016)

@Grzegorz, Jason - thanks.



Selkie said:


> Coming for me! Caught me more like Mark, that is sub my PB, awesome work mate, really really impressive. My 4x4 has been lackluster at best last couple of days and believe it or not I am struggling to sub 1:10 globally.


Thanks. It was an exeptional run but globally I'm 1:12 or thereabouts, so I still consider myself behind you. Definitely in the running for the race to sub-1 though 



Logiqx said:


> I'm impressed... GJ!
> 
> BTW. Is that the regular sized AoSu Mark?


Thanks. Yes it is. I stuck with the mini for ages because I prefer the size. I started using full sized when I got into 4BLD because I find it easier for the slices. It felt so much nicer that I switched to it for sighted 4x4 too.


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## newtonbase (Mar 12, 2016)

Broke all my 3x3 PB averages this morning and got my 2nd fastest single using the Yuexiao. 

Anyone up for the North London Open?


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## Shaky Hands (Mar 12, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> Broke all my 3x3 PB averages this morning and got my 2nd fastest single using the Yuexiao.
> 
> Anyone up for the North London Open?



Well done Mark.

Thanks for the prompt on the London event as I hadn't seen it announced. I'll hope to be there if I can. Would be good to see what the schedule is in case I can only do 1 day.


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## MarcelP (Mar 12, 2016)

Hey gys... now here is something completely different. My son filmed me during judo trainig yesterday. Although I am on bottom, I took this match by choking my opponent 






Ps, I suck even more at Judo than at cubing


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## MarcelP (Mar 12, 2016)

I will be hosting my first WCA competition: https://www.worldcubeassociation.org/results/c.php?i=WestFriescheOpen2016

Exciting!!


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## h2f (Mar 12, 2016)

Thanks for posting your judo fight.


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## h2f (Mar 12, 2016)

Wow Marcel, you are organizer! Good luck!


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## newtonbase (Mar 12, 2016)

MarcelP said:


> I will be hosting my first WCA competition: https://www.worldcubeassociation.org/results/c.php?i=WestFriescheOpen2016
> 
> Exciting!!



Wow. Good luck.


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## Logiqx (Mar 12, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> Broke all my 3x3 PB averages this morning and got my 2nd fastest single using the Yuexiao.
> 
> Anyone up for the North London Open?



Congrats Mark.

I don't think I will be able to make that weekend. Hopefully I'll be able to make a competition some time this year!


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## Logiqx (Mar 12, 2016)

MarcelP said:


> I will be hosting my first WCA competition: https://www.worldcubeassociation.org/results/c.php?i=WestFriescheOpen2016
> 
> Exciting!!



Wow. Cool!


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## newtonbase (Mar 12, 2016)

Some multi advice please. 3BLD success rate is 35% when timed and usually close to 3 mins but rate is much higher when not timed. I attempted 2 cubes twice one evening and got it on the 2nd try in under 14 mins. I'm entering multi in London so: 
How many cubes should I attempt - 2 or 3?
What sort of practice should I do? 
Please remember I get very little undisturbed practice time. 
I may post this on the multi thread too.


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## mark49152 (Mar 12, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> Anyone up for the North London Open?


Definitely up for it as I have enough enthusiasm to try to make every UK comp at the moment. This one might be a bit more difficult though, as bank holiday weekends are harder to get off.



MarcelP said:


> I will be hosting my first WCA competition: https://www.worldcubeassociation.org/results/c.php?i=WestFriescheOpen2016


Awesome, good luck! I'd love to come, but it's the UK EU vote on 23rd and by 26th I might need a visa 

Here's another vid, this time 4BLD. Not a PB, but a pretty solid solve.


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## mark49152 (Mar 12, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> Some multi advice please. 3BLD success rate is 35% when timed and usually close to 3 mins but rate is much higher when not timed. I attempted 2 cubes twice one evening and got it on the 2nd try in under 14 mins. I'm entering multi in London so:
> How many cubes should I attempt - 2 or 3?
> What sort of practice should I do?
> Please remember I get very little undisturbed practice time.
> I may post this on the multi thread too.


I never practice multi and I know a lot of competitors don't. I've only ever done one multi at home. My advice would be to just get better at 3BLD. If you can do 3BLD well, multi is an easy step, and vice-versa. 35% success rate is pretty low. I aim for 50-60%. Too high would mean I'm not pushing myself hard enough to go faster, but too low means I'm not learning enough from my mistakes.

Not sure how you memo for 3BLD, but for multi you want to do strong memo. I use audio (short term) and images for 3BLD, but only images for multi, and do extra reviews. Also, when you review, don't just repeat the memo back, but check it against the cube for mistakes. So for two cubes you would memo cube 1 then cube 2, then go back to cube 1, check you remember your memo, then trace it on the cube to make sure it's correct. Then check cube 2 the same way. Then you might just repeat both memos back to yourself one last time before pulling down the blindfold. Use simple execution, avoid fancy tricks, and don't rush. Put the cubes somewhere you can easily find & pick them up but won't knock them, as you'll lose your orientation. Much of it is just common sense really.

You should also get used to your rooms/locations. For example, I use one room per cube, using about 3 locations per room. To get used to them, I will rotate them for regular 3/4BLD solving. That helps with single BLD anyway, as it reduces the tendency to get confused with memo from previous cubes.

As for whether you try 2 or 3, it just depends how confident you are by then. You don't have to decide until the last minute.


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## EvilGnome6 (Mar 12, 2016)

MarcelP said:


> I will be hosting my first WCA competition: https://www.worldcubeassociation.org/results/c.php?i=WestFriescheOpen2016
> 
> Exciting!!



Fantastic! I just got done hosting my second and I have learned a lot. Feel free to pick my brain. I also have a decent checklist if you want a copy. I used it for both competitions and made it through the day without having to run out to get something.


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## newtonbase (Mar 13, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> I never practice multi and I know a lot of competitors don't....



Thanks Mark


----------



## Jason Green (Mar 13, 2016)

I got my Yuexiao and Tanglong today. I like them both, I haven't decided how much of a shot they have to be a main at this point. Here's my really bad unboxing video, you might get a kick out of my kids though. I get so focused on the cubes I don't even finish my sentences half the time. 

https://youtu.be/KfcPRnvLMCk


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## h2f (Mar 13, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> Definitely up for it as I have enough enthusiasm to try to make every UK comp at the moment. This one might be a bit more difficult though, as bank holiday weekends are harder to get off.
> 
> 
> Awesome, good luck! I'd love to come, but it's the UK EU vote on 23rd and by 26th I might need a visa
> ...



Very nice solve with small pauses. It looks like sub-7 is a matter of memo not execution. 



newtonbase said:


> Some multi advice please. 3BLD success rate is 35% when timed and usually close to 3 mins but rate is much higher when not timed. I attempted 2 cubes twice one evening and got it on the 2nd try in under 14 mins. I'm entering multi in London so:
> How many cubes should I attempt - 2 or 3?
> What sort of practice should I do?
> Please remember I get very little undisturbed practice time.
> I may post this on the multi thread too.



I do not practice mbld but in last year I tried to make one attempt in week increasing slowly my cubes to 10. I've noticed that doing more helps doing less - I mean after attempt of 10 cubes doing 7 was easier. It helps you to recon better your rooms, build your memo/images, shows mistakes etc. I dont know how many time you have but I think you should try 3 cubes et home few times to see your success rate and to become more comfortable with them. Durgin comp you will decide. 

@Blind events. In 3bld my success rate is 60% with mean 1:35.xx in 100 solves. I tried 5bld yesterday and it was off by 2 centers (I forgot to execute) and few midges - I've added extra m move during second or third pair. Memo was around 11 and my biggest problem is tracing x and + centers (same as in 4bld). I'm going to make some "push" sessions.


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## muchacho (Mar 13, 2016)

Jason Green said:


> I got my Yuexiao and Tanglong today. I like them both, I haven't decided how much of a shot they have to be a main at this point. Here's my really bad unboxing video, you might get a kick out of my kids though. I get so focused on the cubes I don't even finish my sentences half the time.
> 
> https://youtu.be/KfcPRnvLMCk



They really like cubes (are you trying to teach them how to cube?) and making reviews, future youtube stars.

@MarcelP, great, good luck!


----------



## Jason Green (Mar 13, 2016)

muchacho said:


> They really like cubes (are you trying to teach them how to cube?) and making reviews, future youtube stars.
> 
> @MarcelP, great, good luck!


Kind of teaching, my 5 year old still does not have enough attention span to get real far. He works on the cross though and putting colors together. 

Yeah Marcel, forgot to say that's awesome! Good luck, wish I could come!

We should organize a world wide "senior" cube event some day. For cubing senior would be 40 of course.  It would be really cool to meet everyone from here!


----------



## MarcelP (Mar 13, 2016)

h2f said:


> Thanks for posting your judo fight.



Thanks! My greatest passion these days.. Training judo two times per week 1.5 hour and two times per week in gym to train cardio.



h2f said:


> Wow Marcel, you are organizer! Good luck!


Yep, I figured I enjoyed quite a few comps so it is time to give something back.



newtonbase said:


> Wow. Good luck.


Thanks!


Logiqx said:


> Wow. Cool!


Thanks!


mark49152 said:


> Awesome, good luck! I'd love to come, but it's the UK EU vote on 23rd and by 26th I might need a visa



Mark, I added 3BLD just for you. I have no BLD interest.. LOL Seriously. If any of my senior friends want to come, you will be welcome to come one day early (on saturday) and stay at my house and have a beer with me. 



EvilGnome6 said:


> Fantastic! I just got done hosting my second and I have learned a lot. Feel free to pick my brain. I also have a decent checklist if you want a copy. I used it for both competitions and made it through the day without having to run out to get something.


That would be great Mike! Can you PB me?



Jason Green said:


> Yeah Marcel, forgot to say that's awesome! Good luck, wish I could come!
> 
> We should organize a world wide "senior" cube event some day. For cubing senior would be 40 of course.  It would be really cool to meet everyone from here!



LOL, that would be great. I only think we would not get the required total amout of at least 20 participants.


----------



## mark49152 (Mar 13, 2016)

Jason Green said:


> I got my Yuexiao and Tanglong today. I like them both, I haven't decided how much of a shot they have to be a main at this point. Here's my really bad unboxing video, you might get a kick out of my kids though. I get so focused on the cubes I don't even finish my sentences half the time.


That was funny, thanks 



h2f said:


> Very nice solve with small pauses. It looks like sub-7 is a matter of memo not execution.


Yeah I would aim to get them 50/50. This was my third attempt of the session and the first two were DNF on exec mistakes. I've started using advanced U2/r2 tricks but have to think carefully.



h2f said:


> I do not practice mbld but in last year I tried to make one attempt in week increasing slowly my cubes to 10.


When I said I don't practise, I meant for small numbers of cubes. The only multi I ever did at home was 5 cubes to test myself before trying 5 in comp. Memo wasn't hard but maybe that's because I'd been doing 4/5BLD. I'll do the same for next comp. Based on splits from the video of that comp, I think I can do up to 8 without practise, but beyond that I would have to push to get faster and that would take practice for sure. 



MarcelP said:


> Mark, I added 3BLD just for you. I have no BLD interest.. LOL Seriously. If any of my senior friends want to come, you will be welcome to come one day early (on saturday) and stay at my house and have a beer with me.


Thanks for the kind offer, that would be awesome. Now I need to find a good explanation of why I need to travel to Europe twice in June for cubing


----------



## Selkie (Mar 13, 2016)

Relatively cube free weekend for me so the thread taking some catching up on. Busy decorating to earn 'vouchers' with my dear wife to allow me to attend more competitions 



MarcelP said:


> I will be hosting my first WCA competition: https://www.worldcubeassociation.org/results/c.php?i=WestFriescheOpen2016
> 
> Exciting!!



Best of luck mate, awesome :tu



newtonbase said:


> Broke all my 3x3 PB averages this morning and got my 2nd fastest single using the Yuexiao.
> 
> Anyone up for the North London Open?



Congratulations on the PBs and yes I think I may be able to make this one as well 



mark49152 said:


> Here's another vid, this time 4BLD. Not a PB, but a pretty solid solve.



I am in awe. Really must get motivated to keep trying 3BLD. Perhaps you could give me some tips at Exeter 



Jason Green said:


> I got my Yuexiao and Tanglong today. I like them both, I haven't decided how much of a shot they have to be a main at this point. Here's my really bad unboxing video, you might get a kick out of my kids though. I get so focused on the cubes I don't even finish my sentences half the time.
> 
> https://youtu.be/KfcPRnvLMCk



Love the unboxing and your assistants. My kids wouldn't be half as entertaining at 12 and 13


----------



## muchacho (Mar 13, 2016)

Some PBs on Megaminx, I spent a few minutes making pairs but I got bored and did some solves the beginner's way.

Single: 3:37
Ao5: 4:01

3x3 100 solves session: 24.528 average


----------



## h2f (Mar 13, 2016)

@Nice David.

@Jason, your boys are great. :tu


----------



## mafergut (Mar 13, 2016)

I was going to say exactly the same.

Great single and average David. Now you are way ahead of me. I will have to practise. I've been busy doing as many events for this WC and I could not do many solves but I will try to catch up a bit. 

And, Jason, the unboxing was a bit unstructured but your kids are adorable  Teach them how to cube as soon as they'll learn


----------



## moralsh (Mar 13, 2016)

yep, great results David, I have similar PBs but I'm a CFOP solver, so you have quite a Margin there once your pairing improves. Keep it up!

Marcel good luck with organizing, it's really satisfying (once you're done ), two advices for you: First, do as much as you can at home (organizing rounds and groups, selecting who's gonna scramble and judge in each round, etc.) and second, we call it Round ahead, is to never be idle, start the next group/event when the scramblers are scrambling the 5th cube. An extra one put yourself in the first groups of each event, that way you'll be able to organize better. 

Mark, you are also way ahead of me on 4BLD, I need to train execution like a mad man if I want to get to those times.

Anyway, 2/3 Multi4BLD on cam, I'll try to upload tomorrow


----------



## Jason Green (Mar 13, 2016)

That's a cool solve I just watched it David. Just a few weeks ago I took that long on 4x4 sighted.  I had a sub 2 min 4x4 yesterday, but still averaging over 2:30. 

Thanks for the video feedback, I told the boys they were popular.


----------



## mark49152 (Mar 13, 2016)

moralsh said:


> Anyway, 2/3 Multi4BLD on cam, I'll try to upload tomorrow


Now that sounds cool, I look forward to watching that.


----------



## Lid (Mar 13, 2016)

Square-1: *19.950* a100  - PB a50 also *19.274*.

Next goal seem to be 4x4 sub1 ... well year got 9½ months left


----------



## mafergut (Mar 13, 2016)

muchacho said:


> Some PBs on Megaminx, I spent a few minutes making pairs but I got bored and did some solves the beginner's way.
> 
> Single: 3:37
> Ao5: 4:01
> ...



Race again, now to sub-4 Ao12? Now you have all the stakes on your favor to win


----------



## moralsh (Mar 13, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> Now that sounds cool, I look forward to watching that.



Be prepared for 20 minutes of boring execution (slow execution + some mistakes) and an inexpressive guy that can't even smile at the 2 successes, I'm not like that in real life, I'm all smiles, trust me 

Sound is broken, I need to put some music but I don't know if I should speed it up or not, maybe I'll just 2x it.

Gotta try it again soon, or maybe 4


----------



## mark49152 (Mar 13, 2016)

moralsh said:


> Sound is broken, I need to put some music but I don't know if I should speed it up or not, maybe I'll just 2x it.


I had that dilemma too. Speed up the memo but not the exec. Some strange people (like me) might be interested in watching the exec and seeing what's going on, but nobody's going to be interested in it speeded up. Good music might help


----------



## Jason Green (Mar 13, 2016)

Just leave it normal speed for Mark, I usually just skip through to see parts of it since I'm not into blind yet. 

The Yuexiao is growing on me big time. I wanted to compare the two new ones so I did a test. After 5 warm ups with my Gans I did 6 ao12s rotating through the cubes, Gans, Tanglong, then Yuexiao. The Yuexiao beat the Gans by like .1 and that was before I restickered it!

Then doing some practice right now (with my stickers) I had 5 out of 9 sub 20, including two 17, two 18, and one 19. I would have been my first sub 20 ao5 but I had a DNF in there before my last 18.


----------



## h2f (Mar 13, 2016)

Leave exec please. I did 5bld and decided to leave exec in normal speed. One may See the fight with my weakness which is the part of the solve. And nice memory in future. So do normal speed.

patataj patataj patataj


----------



## Jason Green (Mar 14, 2016)

I mentioned a while back my brother was working on an original cubing shirt for me. This is what we got. 







If anyone wants to order one you can:
http://www.redbubble.com/people/noelgreen/works/21225786-cfop2-cubing-is-for-old-people-2


----------



## moralsh (Mar 14, 2016)

Haha Jason, I'm definitely going to get one xD

I'll anotate the video with what was happening as much as I can, splits for execution are roughly 6, 8 and 6 so not that bad execution for me except that second cube


----------



## Logiqx (Mar 14, 2016)

Jason Green said:


> I mentioned a while back my brother was working on an original cubing shirt for me. This is what we got.
> 
> http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160314/8e131d4399f1c94310e5fb60beeb37ea.jpg
> 
> ...


Great t-shirt and wording.

Looks like that guy has been peeling his stickers. Red / orange corner may be due to non-standard colour scheme but the yellow / blue corners are broken. 

Sent from my GT-I9305 using Tapatalk


----------



## mark49152 (Mar 14, 2016)

Logiqx said:


> Looks like that guy has been peeling his stickers. Red / orange corner may be due to non-standard colour scheme but the yellow / blue corners are broken.


Haha, yeah that's the first thing I noticed too. What geeks we are.


----------



## Jason Green (Mar 14, 2016)

Haha thanks guys, I'm going to get that fixed and uploaded to redbubble. Can't believe I missed it, I glanced at a couple of the edges to "check" it was valid but overlooked those touching opposites. No wonder I'm not sub 20 yet.


----------



## h2f (Mar 14, 2016)

Yes, t-shirt is great!


----------



## muchacho (Mar 14, 2016)

mafergut said:


> Race again, now to sub-4 Ao12? Now you have all the stakes on your favor to win



I can't promise to do just 6 solves per day, last couple of days I've done more than 10. I can settle to 10 since I'll do some pairing practice also. My best ao12 is still at 4:39, I'm making a lot of mistakes lately during the last steps of LL.


_Cubing is for old people too... that's good _


----------



## Selkie (Mar 14, 2016)

Lid said:


> Square-1: *19.950* a100  - PB a50 also *19.274*.
> 
> Next goal seem to be 4x4 sub1 ... well year got 9½ months left



Very nice average, congratulations.



Jason Green said:


> The Yuexiao is growing on me big time. I wanted to compare the two new ones so I did a test. After 5 warm ups with my Gans I did 6 ao12s rotating through the cubes, Gans, Tanglong, then Yuexiao. The Yuexiao beat the Gans by like .1 and that was before I restickered it!
> 
> Then doing some practice right now (with my stickers) I had 5 out of 9 sub 20, including two 17, two 18, and one 19. I would have been my first sub 20 ao5 but I had a DNF in there before my last 18.



Wow looks like you are seeing a great improvement 



Jason Green said:


> I mentioned a while back my brother was working on an original cubing shirt for me. This is what we got.
> 
> If anyone wants to order one you can:



Haha, I think it is great, I will order one this week



muchacho said:


> I can't promise to do just 6 solves per day, last couple of days I've done more than 10. I can settle to 10 since I'll do some pairing practice also. My best ao12 is still at 4:39, I'm making a lot of mistakes lately during the last steps of LL.
> 
> 
> _Cubing is for old people too... that's good _



I found out my Megaminx and will join the race a little late. Done perhaps 3-4 solves this weekend untimed which I a sure were over 5 minutes. Will do an Ao5 today for WC and we will see where I am at


----------



## mafergut (Mar 14, 2016)

muchacho said:


> I can't promise to do just 6 solves per day, last couple of days I've done more than 10. I can settle to 10 since I'll do some pairing practice also. My best ao12 is still at 4:39, I'm making a lot of mistakes lately during the last steps of LL.



No problem, David, practise all you want. I will do the same. Last time I restricted myself because, at the beginning of the race I was ahead of you by a respectable margin. Now we are much closer with my best Ao12 being around 4:32 but you are probably ahead of me in fact, as my PB single is still 4:01 and Ao5 around 4:13. Your 3:37 and 4:01 seem almost unreachable to me right now.



Selkie said:


> I found out my Megaminx and will join the race a little late. Done perhaps 3-4 solves this weekend untimed which I a sure were over 5 minutes. Will do an Ao5 today for WC and we will see where I am at



Nice. The more the merrier!!!

Also, @Jason: Nice times & improvement and, very nice t-shirt!!! Maybe I'll get one too. The CFOP2 logo is genius!!! Even though I don't consider myself old yet


----------



## Isaac Lai (Mar 14, 2016)

Just to ask, how do you guys go about doing your LL on mega?


----------



## muchacho (Mar 14, 2016)

I do it like in this video (justkeepcubing) except only using sune for edge permutation:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aWI6Bdao5Y4


----------



## mafergut (Mar 14, 2016)

Isaac Lai said:


> Just to ask, how do you guys go about doing your LL on mega?



Funny that you ask as I have just replied to you on this on the Accomplishment thread! 

I do EO with FRUR'U'F' and FURU'R'F' (it takes two at most)
Then I do EP with Sune and Antisune (it should take two at most, if done well, which I not always do)
Then I do CP with "front" Niklas (it also should take two at most but I have to learn to do it in both directions, so right now it is more like 3 or 4 of these)
The I do CO with beginners (8 moves per corner).

Total time in average (except for easy LL) around 1 minute, maybe more.

Conclusion: My LL sucks. Looking for a better method... and spare time to learn it.


----------



## Selkie (Mar 14, 2016)

Isaac Lai said:


> Just to ask, how do you guys go about doing your LL on mega?



Using a shocking bad system to be fair though I have remembered it not solving the megaminx in over 4 years:-

Like Miguel F (R U R' U') F' and inverse for EO
Also like Miguel Sune and ASune for EP
Then commutators for CO
Then commutators for CP


----------



## Isaac Lai (Mar 14, 2016)

muchacho said:


> I do it like in this video (justkeepcubing) except only using sune for edge permutation:
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aWI6Bdao5Y4





mafergut said:


> Funny that you ask as I have just replied to you on this on the Accomplishment thread!
> 
> I do EO with FRUR'U'F' and FURU'R'F' (it takes two at most)
> Then I do EP with Sune and Antisune (it should take two at most, if done well, which I not always do)
> ...





Selkie said:


> Using a shocking bad system to be fair though I have remembered it not solving the megaminx in over 4 years:-
> 
> Like Miguel F (R U R' U') F' and inverse for EO
> Also like Miguel Sune and ASune for EP
> ...



Oddly enough, I never actually used this method for solving LL. 

At this stage, I recommend doing EO, CO, EP then CP. 
EO is done as you guys have mentioned.
CO is done using commutators (for the two cases with five twisted corners you should do a sune first to at least orient some corners)
EP is done using 4 algs:
when edges are adjacent: J perm to cycle edges clockwise, Y perm to cycle edges anti-clockwise
when edges are opposite: R2 U2' R2' U' R2 U2' R2' for clockwise, R2 U2 R2' U R2 U2 R2' for anti-clockwise
CP is done using commutators.

This is a simplified version of the tutorial Simon Westlund has on his channel. However, what he teaches (and also what I do normally) is to do each step with one algorithm (no commutators).

Edit: on occasion you might get the crappy EP case with one adjacent swap and one opposite swap. You could either do the J/Y perm twice or just learn the alg.


----------



## muchacho (Mar 14, 2016)

So the advanced version is same steps order but more algs? ok, I'm switching to this, thanks.


----------



## Logiqx (Mar 14, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> Haha, yeah that's the first thing I noticed too. What geeks we are.



Hehe. I saw this advert in the train station at Leeds a few weeks ago...



It's the exactly the same cube and I'm not a little bit geeky. I'm very geeky.


----------



## Logiqx (Mar 14, 2016)

Selkie said:


> Using a shocking bad system to be fair though I have remembered it not solving the megaminx in over 4 years:-
> 
> Like Miguel F (R U R' U') F' and inverse for EO
> Also like Miguel Sune and ASune for EP
> ...



I haven't picked up my mega in a couple of years but I used a similar approach using existing 3x3 knowledge:

EO (FRU + FUR)
EP (Sune + Anti-Sune)
CP (Niklas + variations)
CO (Sexy / Dan Brown Style)


----------



## Selkie (Mar 14, 2016)

@Mega Race

From WC ... *Megaminx:* 6:25.30, 5:30.19, 6:08.33, 5:29.09, 7:05.66 =* 6:01.27*

Shocking, think I averaged about 4:40 when I did solve it which sort of relates to previous singles in comp. Looking forward to improving 



Isaac Lai said:


> Oddly enough, I never actually used this method for solving LL.
> 
> At this stage, I recommend doing EO, CO, EP then CP.
> EO is done as you guys have mentioned.
> ...



I think I will try this out when my solve up to LL improves significantly. Thanks for sharing.



Logiqx said:


> I haven't picked up my mega in a couple of years but I used a similar approach using existing 3x3 knowledge:



I was surprised I had remembered to be fair. Does feel like I'm solving it for the first time ... each and every time


----------



## h2f (Mar 14, 2016)

If you are not bored with my solves... My yesterday's 5bld, which I've done in the night after a job (yes, I had to work yesterday) with hard memo (some lockups) and very slow execution (my + and x centers sucks). But I did it and I'm happy. I wanted to speed up execution but I've realized one can see my fight with myself and my cube which almost slipped out in the end. I thought in the end that there must be mistake during execution. But finally - yes, I did it....


----------



## mark49152 (Mar 14, 2016)

h2f said:


> My yesterday's 5bld


Awesome, nice solve, and nice reaction


----------



## Selkie (Mar 14, 2016)

Congratulations Grzegorz, awesome stuff :tu


----------



## Jason Green (Mar 14, 2016)

Logiqx said:


> Hehe. I saw this advert in the train station at Leeds a few weeks ago...
> 
> It's the exactly the same cube and I'm not a little bit geeky. I'm very geeky.



That's funny. 

That's an amazing 5BLD good job!


----------



## mafergut (Mar 14, 2016)

h2f said:


> My yesterday's 5bld, which I've done in the night after a job (yes, I had to work yesterday) with hard memo (some lockups) and very slow execution (my + and x centers sucks). But I did it and I'm happy. [...]



My head hurts just from watching the video. I can't imagine anything bigger than a 3x3 or two of them. Big cube BLD is mindblowing for me. Great job!


----------



## MarcelP (Mar 14, 2016)

h2f said:


> If you are not bored with my solves... My yesterday's 5bld, which I've done in the night after a job (yes, I had to work yesterday) with hard memo (some lockups) and very slow execution (my + and x centers sucks). But I did it and I'm happy. I wanted to speed up execution but I've realized one can see my fight with myself and my cube which almost slipped out in the end. I thought in the end that there must be mistake during execution. But finally - yes, I did it....
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ap_85HGLyF4



That is awesome! Turning a 5x5 with blindfold alone is difficult enough. I would do r2 on accident when I need to do R2.


----------



## moralsh (Mar 14, 2016)

there it goes


----------



## h2f (Mar 14, 2016)

Wow. Finally! And PF!  Memo?


----------



## muchacho (Mar 14, 2016)

That is crazy... and it should be an official event


----------



## mafergut (Mar 14, 2016)

If you allow me to say something in Spanish for Raúl... en 2 palabras IM-PRESIONANTE!!!!
Impressive feat. And when you stopped mid-solve on the 2nd cube to go back to the first and then continued with the 2nd where you were...!

Regarding Mega, I got my 1st few sub-4 solves today and running Ao12 is now 4:15.xx but after those good solves I went back to 4:2x.xx so, I'm not even close to sub-4 Ao12 yet.


----------



## Jason Green (Mar 14, 2016)

Got the shirt updated 







http://www.redbubble.com/people/noelgreen/works/21225786-cfop2-cubing-is-for-old-people-2


----------



## mafergut (Mar 14, 2016)

Got the scramble for that?


----------



## h2f (Mar 14, 2016)

@Jason - Great!


----------



## Jason Green (Mar 14, 2016)

mafergut said:


> Got the scramble for that?


Haha nope. I actually scrambled one myself and spent a little time because I did not want very many color pairs.  Then I took a pic and he fixed the graphic.


----------



## moralsh (Mar 14, 2016)

h2f said:


> Wow. Finally! And PF!  Memo?



I was thinking about 20 minutes songs and this one came to my mind. Memo was ~45 minutes, but real memo I'd say like 10 minutes less



muchacho said:


> That is crazy... and it should be an official event



Thanks! And yes, I'd like to see what the pros can do in an hour (10? 15? more?)



mafergut said:


> If you allow me to say something in Spanish for Raúl... en 2 palabras IM-PRESIONANTE!!!!
> Impressive feat. And when you stopped mid-solve on the 2nd cube to go back to the first and then continued with the 2nd where you were...!



That part was pretty stupid xD, I just didn't remember if I had undone the setup correctly and just shoot twice to the same sticker on the fist cube to check if the ending was the same, just didn't want to over think it and thought it was a good idea (or at least not a very bad one)


----------



## mark49152 (Mar 14, 2016)

@Raul, awesome! How about 6BLD?


----------



## moralsh (Mar 14, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> @Raul, awesome! How about 6BLD?



Thanks!

I think I'm ready memo wise, but I need some more sighted solves practice obliques, Will try it soon


----------



## h2f (Mar 14, 2016)

moralsh said:


> Thanks!
> 
> I think I'm ready memo wise, but I need some more sighted solves practice obliques, Will try it soon



Nice memo time. I think I would need over an hour.

Race to 6bld solve? I'm thinking about 6bld sometimes...


----------



## moralsh (Mar 14, 2016)

h2f said:


> Race to 6bld solve? I'm thinking about 6bld sometimes...



Deal!


----------



## mark49152 (Mar 14, 2016)

h2f said:


> Race to 6bld solve? I'm thinking about 6bld sometimes...


Yeah I'm up for that . I was thinking about it earlier and I don't think it would be too hard except for the amount of memo and maybe the size and awkwardness of the cube. Two lots of wings and two lots of x-centres same as 4x4, and the obliques I guess could be solved using U2 similarly to x/t-centres. I might try out of few of the 4/5BLD algs later to see if they still work.


----------



## Jason Green (Mar 15, 2016)

Nothing beats a pb! I'm going to try to reconstruct this because it's so easy. I did a few tries and got down to 11.25. The scramble is on this image (I clicked "last" for the pic). 







Ok, I don't even know how to do this really, so correct me if I'm wrong.

Scramble - U R2 U R2 U' L2 U' F2 D' F' D U L' D B2 R2 D B2 U2

Inspection - x2 (put white on bottom, blue center in front)
XCross - L2' B y' D2' F D' (solved 1 F2L slot)
2nd Slot - y' R' U' R
3rd Slot - y' U' R U' R' y R U R'
4th Slot - y' R U' R'
OLL (L shape) - R' F R2 B' R2' F' R2 B R'
PLL (Ub) - R2 U R U R' U' R' U' R' U R' + U


----------



## h2f (Mar 15, 2016)

moralsh said:


> Deal!





mark49152 said:


> Yeah I'm up for that .



So the deal.



mark49152 said:


> I was thinking about it earlier and I don't think it would be too hard except for the amount of memo and maybe the size and awkwardness of the cube. Two lots of wings and two lots of x-centres same as 4x4, and the obliques I guess could be solved using U2 similarly to x/t-centres. I might try out of few of the 4/5BLD algs later to see if they still work.



I'm not sure what "oblique" is in 6x6 - it's a matter of translation. Are they elements between x-centers? I did few sighted solves and they are similiar more to x-centers...


----------



## moralsh (Mar 15, 2016)

Grzegorz, yes, those are the obliques. Comms are quite similar, it's easier to do pure conmutators, I guess U2 is also quite similar. The problem is tracing and not mixing both types of obliques. To me, type one arejust next to a wing sticker and type 2 are opposite, if that makes sense to anybody


----------



## muchacho (Mar 15, 2016)

Jason Green said:


> Nothing beats a pb!


Congrats, and reconstruction is also ok, good job!

5 rotations is normal in CFOP?

https://alg.cubing.net/?setup=U_R2_..._R2_F-_R2_B_R-
R2_U_R_U_R-_U-_R-_U-_R-_U_R-_U


----------



## h2f (Mar 15, 2016)

moralsh said:


> Grzegorz, yes, those are the obliques. Comms are quite similar, it's easier to do pure conmutators, I guess U2 is also quite similar. The problem is tracing and not mixing both types of obliques. To me, type one arejust next to a wing sticker and type 2 are opposite, if that makes sense to anybody



Thanks. I know what you mean. For me type 1 is next to Ubl and type 2 next. So I think I call them inverserly to you. I use comms for centers.

@Jason, congrats. Nice solve.


----------



## mark49152 (Mar 15, 2016)

moralsh said:


> The problem is tracing and not mixing both types of obliques. To me, type one arejust next to a wing sticker and type 2 are opposite, if that makes sense to anybody


It makes sense but I don't think it would work for me because I still sometimes confuse the wing stickers. It's one of my regular causes of 4BLD DNFs and I have to think too much about it. I would probably try to distinguish the obliques as clockwise and ccw, although I haven't tried yet.


----------



## mafergut (Mar 15, 2016)

muchacho said:


> Congrats, and reconstruction is also ok, good job!
> 
> 5 rotations is normal in CFOP?
> 
> ...



The less rotations the better but, in F2L, as edges are not oriented, as in ZZ, there are times where it's faster to rotate than to try and do Fs and Bs, which are not easily finger-trickable. So, I'd say Jason's solve is quite nice and it is not only PB but full step. Well done, Jason! I have to time that one myself


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## moralsh (Mar 15, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> It makes sense but I don't think it would work for me because I still sometimes confuse the wing stickers. It's one of my regular causes of 4BLD DNFs and I have to think too much about it. I would probably try to distinguish the obliques as clockwise and ccw, although I haven't tried yet.



I have a little trick for wings, Imagine a superimposed watch on each face, your sticker is the sticker with the highest hour on each side, if that doesn't make sense just imagine you're traveling clockwise and pick the last sticker before changing sides.

@Jason, nice, you're starting to get really close to my PB (13.3x). Stop right there! xD


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## mark49152 (Mar 15, 2016)

moralsh said:


> I have a little trick for wings, Imagine a superimposed watch on each face, your sticker is the sticker with the highest hour on each side, if that doesn't make sense just imagine you're traveling clockwise and pick the last sticker before changing sides.


Yes that's what I meant by clockwise and ccw. Usually I look at the dedge and imagine it as a propeller rotating clockwise. The target stickers are on the leading edges of the propeller, if that makes sense. Because I make frequent mistakes I am trying also to see them as clockwise or ccw on the face as you describe.


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## h2f (Mar 15, 2016)

I think this may help: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M32OkdonaVg


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## mafergut (Mar 15, 2016)

Record points and number of events this week at WC-10 but still not in the top 10 
Congrats to Grzegorz for beating me again and also to APdRF for winning this week. Your 3x3 with Feet and big cubes were phenomenal but, at least I beat you at FMC


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## h2f (Mar 15, 2016)

Thanks. Your result is awsome. My points are from blind events. I cant compare with you in mega or 2x2. And you beat me in skewb. I did square because I've started to forget algs.


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## mafergut (Mar 15, 2016)

Well, at skewb you must have had a bad day, as your official average is much better than that, meanwhile I just had a decent average. I also did notice that you had an outstanding result at FMC. I'd like to learn from your solution if you have it at hand and can post it here. This week I had an incredibly lucky skeleton.

My problem is that I have started to practise so many new events that I cannot make real progress at any of them so I have decided to devote a couple of weeks at least to each of them in turn. Right now it is Mega but all my big cubes need a lot of practise, not to talk about SQ-1 or blindfold


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## APdRF (Mar 15, 2016)

mafergut said:


> Record points and number of events this week at WC-10 but still not in the top 10
> Congrats to Grzegorz for beating me again and also to APdRF for winning this week. Your 3x3 with Feet and big cubes were phenomenal but, at least I beat you at FMC



Thank you! And congrats everyone. It's funny because my big cubes were the thing I was less proud about  I don't know how to finish the cubes in FMC


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## mafergut (Mar 15, 2016)

APdRF said:


> Thank you! And congrats everyone. It's funny because my big cubes were the thing I was less proud about  I don't know how to finish the cubes in FMC



You might not be proud but the times were really good. Not that your 2x2 and 3x3 times were not good but there are so many fast people at those events in the forum that even for you it's gonna be tough to win at those.


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## h2f (Mar 15, 2016)

Thanks, for kind words. You will see that doing a lot events pays back but it takes time. I had same feeling when in last year I've started to make a lot events in WC.

My solutions in FMC are based on the scheme: make 2x2x2 (or 2x2x1) first, expand it to 2x2x3, do EO, do f2l-1, put last edge prepare insertions. Up to the solution I make sometimes this stages look different. I prefer doing 3 corners than 5 corners even if the skeleton is longer. Thats all. In last solve I did like that. I've noticed that with white on bottom there's a lot of pairs. So z2 rotation. Next I've noticed easy 2x2x2. So I tried to add random move before block to see what happens. I tried L2, L' and L. This trick Marcin Stachura made in 2014 when he made NR. Thats why theres L' before block. The rest of solve is quite obvious. The L' move made me edge in right position to make next 2x2x1, next I've noticed easy pair when puttin 2x2x1. f2l-1 and eo simultanously is a matter of luck. I've finished with 4 corners in two pairs. Durign insertions I try to find move which cancels with move from skeleton. I've find -4 insertion (8 moves insertion but 2 moves cancels with 2 from skeleton). The second should be done in the end but I didnt notice theres fine position to do it. This would give 27. Instead I found isertion with no cancelation. Marcin Stachura told me that I should look for the first insert which cancels 4 or more moves. Sometimes it doesnt happen - I had such solutions. And 4 corners can give a lot of cancelations. 

z2 L' //random move 
D' R2 F** //2x2x2 
B' // pair 
U R' B2 R U2 B // 2x2x1 and pair 
F' U F // eo f2l-1 
L* U L'//ab4c 

* L' U R U' L U R' U' 
** U2 R' D2 R U2 R' D2 R

alg.cubing.net

If i would do insert in insert it gives: 27
*(L' U R U' L (L' B' L F L' B L F') U R' U') = L' U R U' B' L F L' B L F' U R' U' with cancealtion in the front and in the end.


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## h2f (Mar 15, 2016)

APdRF said:


> Thank you! And congrats everyone. It's funny because my big cubes were the thing I was less proud about  I don't know how to finish the cubes in FMC



Cograts Alberto. Awsome score!


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## Jason Green (Mar 15, 2016)

moralsh said:


> there it goes
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8NT7s-omR_A



That's amazing. I might be near on 3x3 PB but you'll be ahead of me in this for many years (probably forever). 


mafergut said:


> The less rotations the better but, in F2L, as edges are not oriented, as in ZZ, there are times where it's faster to rotate than to try and do Fs and Bs, which are not easily finger-trickable. So, I'd say Jason's solve is quite nice and it is not only PB but full step. Well done, Jason! I have to time that one myself


Thanks that's a good description. I'm pretty bad at too many rotations in general but getting better. This one I agree was not bad for me. 

David thanks for the alg.cubing link. It's not working on my phone but I'll try on my computer.


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## muchacho (Mar 15, 2016)

Not many (is there any?) Megaminx videos in this thread, so...






Best ao12:
4:15


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## h2f (Mar 15, 2016)

muchacho said:


> Not many (is there any?) Megaminx videos in this thread, so...
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w01RperI4rQ
> 
> ...



Cool.  Impressive.


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## mafergut (Mar 15, 2016)

muchacho said:


> Not many (is there any?) Megaminx videos in this thread, so...
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w01RperI4rQ
> 
> ...



Very nice! You do CO and CP quite fast. I tried with the commutator that you use but I was not very fast with it so came back to Niklas. Maybe I should try again.
So we are now tied at best Ao12  Those final 15 seconds are going to prove difficult to cut for me.


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## mark49152 (Mar 15, 2016)

h2f said:


> I think this may help: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M32OkdonaVg


That's pretty much what I would have done intuitively based in 4BLD knowledge but it's nice to see it endorsed by Roman .

On reflection I am going to forget about 6BLD until after next comp. I just spent 40 minutes rescrambling a 5x5 blindfolded so I need to get competent at that first. I'm not even sure I will do 5BLD at the comp. I might just focus on getting a better 4BLD official PB and defer 5BLD until I've done that. There's only 1 hour for both.


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## h2f (Mar 15, 2016)

Ok. I understand it. Luckily I may have comp in April but only with 3bld of blind events.


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## Jason Green (Mar 15, 2016)

muchacho said:


> Congrats, and reconstruction is also ok, good job!
> 
> 5 rotations is normal in CFOP?
> 
> ...



I made a couple of tweaks, like putting the x2 in the setup, and putting a couple of primes on the double moves. If you run this at 2.1 speed it is almost what my time is (like 15.9 on my stopwatch).

https://alg.cubing.net/?setup=U_R2_...R2-_F-_R2_B_R-
R2_U_R_U_R-_U-_R-_U-_R-_U_R-_U


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## muchacho (Mar 15, 2016)

3x3 ao12 PB: 21.872 (old was 22.703 from 23 February)



Spoiler



12. 18.607 F2 D2 R2 B2 R2 F2 D2 L2 D L2 D R D B2 R' F' D' U2 B' F U2
11. 23.223 R2 D' L2 D' B2 D2 B2 U2 R2 U2 F2 R D R2 B R2 U' L2 B2 L B U
10. 21.687 F2 U2 L2 B2 U' B2 F2 R2 U' R2 D' F D L U' B' U F' U' F2 L
9. 23.750 U' F2 D L2 D2 F2 U' R2 U' R2 L2 B' R D2 B' R' F' R D' F U' R'
8. 20.567 B2 D2 L2 B2 L2 D B2 D2 F2 R2 D B' R U2 F' D' R L2 D R' F' U'
7. 22.447 D B2 L2 D U R2 F2 U' B2 F2 D2 L U2 R B U' F' R' F U2 B
6. 23.639 U L2 B2 U B2 U L2 B2 F2 D' R2 F D' R D2 L U F' U' F'
5. 18.575 U L2 D2 B2 D' L2 U2 F2 R2 L2 F2 R' D2 L F R' B2 U B F' R2 U
4. 28.286 L2 D F2 D R2 B2 U F2 R2 F2 U2 F' D F2 U2 R' B F2 D' R2 L2 U'
3. 22.565 F2 R2 B2 L2 F2 U' R2 L2 D' B2 D2 F R D' F U' L D F D2 R U2
2. 21.775 B2 D' L2 B2 U L2 F2 U' R2 B2 F2 R F' L2 U2 B' L F' D' B F' U2
1. 20.462 B2 L2 B2 U L2 D U B2 R2 U L2 B' F2 L B R' U L2 F U2 R' D'



edit: and next 12 solves average was 26.624... and I was doing the race to sub-25 scrambles, arghh


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## mafergut (Mar 15, 2016)

muchacho said:


> Not many (is there any?) Megaminx videos in this thread, so...
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w01RperI4rQ
> 
> ...



Well, David, you know, I had to upload my own sub-4 Mega solve 
It's not as good as yours but watching it I see that there is some room for improvement. Mistakes here and there and long pauses searching for pieces as well.

Best Ao12 = 4:12


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## muchacho (Mar 15, 2016)

Great, nice solve! my potential with my current method looks much worse, I need to change it soon, although my LL looks faster (I'll try to time it, in this solve it was fast, but it's just the first video I've done).


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## Lid (Mar 15, 2016)

Jason Green said:


> Nothing beats a pb! I'm going to try to reconstruct this because it's so easy. I did a few tries and got down to 11.25. The scramble is on this image (I clicked "last" for the pic).
> 
> http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160315/2b4c1a19077c5aabb59efa458ccfcab4.jpg
> 
> ...


Nice solve Jason 

Here is my try on that scamble:
z2 R2 F D2 R D' // same Xcross different angle (and also avoids two rotations)
R' U' R // 2nd
U2 R U' R' U R U R' // 3rd
y' U' R U' R2 F R F' // 4th with forced EO
U L' U' L U' L' U L' D' L U L' D L2 U' // COLL with EPLL skip



muchacho said:


> Not many (is there any?) Megaminx videos in this thread, so...


I don't really have a good camera nor a tripod to make decent videos ...


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## newtonbase (Mar 15, 2016)

I've registered for London, as have a couple of you guys, so I need a practice plan. I do a bit of blind every day so 3BLD and multi are covered leaving 2x2, 3x3, 4x4, 5x5 and Pyraminx I don't care about OH. 45 days to practice so maybe 2 lots of 3 days for each event in a rota with a refresher day for everything on the 4th day. I'll then have a few days at the end to work on weaknesses. Sound good or have I wasted 3 good minutes of cubing on a crap plan that I won't stick to?


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## mark49152 (Mar 15, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> Sound good or have I wasted 3 good minutes of cubing on a crap plan that I won't stick to?


Just having a plan is good I think. I can share mine, which is different and designed to make best use of my limited practice time. 

For each comp I have two focus events, and I don't seriously practise anything else, just do the minimum to not be too rusty. For the focus events I try not to switch too often -maybe once a week so that each gets a few good runs of several days exclusive practice.

I've been doing this for my last four comps and it's the reason I made rapid progress in 3BLD and 5x5. For Exeter, my focus events are 4x4 and 4BLD. For London, undecided and it depends on how it goes at Exeter.


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## Jason Green (Mar 15, 2016)

Lid said:


> Nice solve Jason
> 
> Here is my try on that scamble:
> z2 R2 F D2 R D' // same Xcross different angle (and also avoids two rotations)
> ...


Thanks that's pretty cool to see how you do it, you know a lot more than me.


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## h2f (Mar 15, 2016)

Do you remember we have a race to sub-1? Finally I'm back to my normal solves: avg of 5: 1:13.08.


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## mark49152 (Mar 15, 2016)

h2f said:


> Do you remember we have a race to sub-1? Finally I'm back to my normal solves: avg of 5: 1:13.08.


Yes, races to 4x4 sub-1 and 4BLD sub-7  I've not been able to do much practice the last 4 days though.


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## Shaky Hands (Mar 15, 2016)

My plan for both the Exeter and London comps:
2x2: I don't practice 2x2 at all and don't even know all the OLL cases of the basic method. It's just something I may as well enter.
3x3: Regular Ao25 solves, aiming to do a few hundred solves per week (outside of commuting, where I probably do several hundred more too.)
4x4: Not much practice at all. I'm comfortably within the Hard Cut but a long way from the Average Cut, so working much more on 5x5.
5x5: Lots of practice, hopefully get in 100+ solves a week (which for me is many hours) in the hope of beating the Hard Cut and registering a time.
Clock: I'll probably do a fair bit of this in the final week, just to firm up my solving process and try to register a full Ao5 at the comp.

I'm sticking with these 5 events for the time being. I can solve Pyraminx with a crib sheet so might enter that one day in the future. I'm more likely to try 3BLD first though.


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## newtonbase (Mar 15, 2016)

*Mark* I think if I stuck to 2 events I'd be getting last place at the others which I prefer to avoid. 
*Andy* I'm jealous of your practice time. My commute is a short car journey. Nice in itself but lousy for practice. There's only one set of lights! I'll maybe get half an hour at lunch in a kitchen full of people and a bit at night if the kids sleep. I got lucky at the weekend and did my 2nd ever AO50 on 3x3.


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## Logiqx (Mar 15, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> My commute is a short car journey. Nice in itself but lousy for practice. There's only one set of lights! I'll maybe get half an hour at lunch in a kitchen full of people and a bit at night if the kids sleep. I got lucky at the weekend and did my 2nd ever AO50 on 3x3.



Take up OH then you can practice it whilst driving. 

I'm joking of course!

In my last job, I used to disappear to my car for 30-45 minutes of practice during lunch time. That was about the only practice time I was able to guarantee during the week. It works better in spring / summer when it's not cold outside.


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## newtonbase (Mar 15, 2016)

Logiqx said:


> Take up OH then you can practice it whilst driving.
> 
> I'm joking of course!
> 
> In my last job, I used to disappear to my car for 30-45 minutes of practice during lunch time. That was about the only practice time I was able to guarantee during the week. It works better in spring / summer when it's not cold outside.



My car is a viable option. I had to go for a half hour nap in it yesterday due to the kids restricting me to 3 hours sleep the night before.


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## mark49152 (Mar 15, 2016)

I keep a cube in my glove box just in case.


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## newtonbase (Mar 15, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> I keep a cube in my glove box just in case.



Me too. Plus a spare in my desk and a couple in the boot of the car as giveaways* and then another giveaway in my man bag.
* I need to replace these. I did buy new ones but my son unboxed them for me.


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## EvilGnome6 (Mar 16, 2016)

I keep a duplicate set of mains at work and practice in the break room during my lunch hour. It's some of the best practice time I get during the week and I've set many a PB there.


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## h2f (Mar 16, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> Yes, races to 4x4 sub-1 and 4BLD sub-7  I've not been able to do much practice the last 4 days though.



6:19.xx at the moment with double parity. But off by 3 wings - I skipped one pair during execution. Scramble from WC. Memo was around 3:20 so execution was fast - I wasnt thinking a lot during centers, just automatic execution. Sub-7 is real!


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## Selkie (Mar 16, 2016)

Been very busy with work last couple of days so trying to catch up.



moralsh said:


> there it goes
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8NT7s-omR_A



Oh wow that is just awesome, very impressive and I agree would make an insane official event :tu



Jason Green said:


> Got the shirt updated



Just ordered one Jason, hopefully it will be here for Exeter Open 



Jason Green said:


> Nothing beats a pb! I'm going to try to reconstruct this because it's so easy. I did a few tries and got down to 11.25. The scramble is on this image (I clicked "last" for the pic).



Awesome, your PBs are coming very regularly at the moment



muchacho said:


> Not many (is there any?) Megaminx videos in this thread, so...
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w01RperI4rQ
> 
> ...





mafergut said:


> Well, David, you know, I had to upload my own sub-4 Mega solve
> It's not as good as yours but watching it I see that there is some room for improvement. Mistakes here and there and long pauses searching for pieces as well.
> 
> Best Ao12 = 4:12


Nice solves gents and very motivating, will try and do an average today 



muchacho said:


> 3x3 ao12 PB: 21.872 (old was 22.703 from 23 February)



Very Nice



mark49152 said:


> Just having a plan is good I think. I can share mine, which is different and designed to make best use of my limited practice time.
> 
> For each comp I have two focus events, and I don't seriously practise anything else, just do the minimum to not be too rusty. For the focus events I try not to switch too often -maybe once a week so that each gets a few good runs of several days exclusive practice.
> 
> I've been doing this for my last four comps and it's the reason I made rapid progress in 3BLD and 5x5. For Exeter, my focus events are 4x4 and 4BLD. For London, undecided and it depends on how it goes at Exeter.



I like this idea, concentrated practice. Also unfortunately I did not know when registration opened so I am 3/3 on the waiting list for North London.

--------

I also practice at work when I go into the office once a week, the rest of time I work from home. I even take cubes camping and to VW festivals, often turns a few heads 

--------
@Grzegorz 

Thanks I eventually watched your skewb sample solves together with sarah's own and at long last learned to solve it. Usinf Sarah's beginner method plus I did learn H and Z perms. Think I may be sub 20 and ready to solve at Exeter 

number of times: 50/50
best time: 8.50
worst time: 32.51

current avg5: 18.23 (σ = 2.85)
best avg5: 15.05 (σ = 2.93)

current avg12: 19.28 (σ = 2.51)
best avg12: 17.05 (σ = 3.43)

session avg: 19.42 (σ = 3.40)
session mean: 19.53


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## mark49152 (Mar 16, 2016)

Selkie said:


> I like this idea, concentrated practice. Also unfortunately I did not know when registration opened so I am 3/3 on the waiting list for North London.


Oh no, that's annoying. Registration only opened last night and that's 83+ already. The competitor limits are too low these days. They should not accept comp proposals with limits less than 100 people these days, IMHO, for comps in the south east. Maybe even more. It's growing fast and a lot of those registered are first-timers.


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## mark49152 (Mar 16, 2016)

h2f said:


> 6:19.xx at the moment with double parity. But off by 3 wings - I skipped one pair during execution. Scramble from WC. Memo was around 3:20 so execution was fast - I wasnt thinking a lot during centers, just automatic execution. Sub-7 is real!


Wow, that is pretty fast... I think I am a long way off 7 mins to be honest!


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## Shaky Hands (Mar 16, 2016)

Selkie said:


> Also unfortunately I did not know when registration opened so I am 3/3 on the waiting list for North London.



Sorry to hear that Chris. Hopefully a slot will open up for you.



mark49152 said:


> Oh no, that's annoying. Registration only opened last night and that's 83+ already. The competitor limits are too low these days. They should not accept comp proposals with limits less than 100 people these days, IMHO, for comps in the south east. Maybe even more. It's growing fast and a lot of those registered are first-timers.



The slots filled up really fast for this one, considering it had little advance notice compared to Exeter. The number of competitors may not be the best thing to be used to set a cap on competitor numbers when you have people registering solely to do shorter events like 3x3 and/or 2x2, but I guess there's limitations to what the WCA can do for this within the website's code.


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## h2f (Mar 16, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> Wow, that is pretty fast... I think I am a long way off 7 mins to be honest!



Yes, Im very surpriesed with it. I do a lot of dnfs because my aim is to solve and memo as fast as I can. I hope it will force my mind to get better times sooner or later. The second attempt was 6:53 with more mistakes on centers.


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## mark49152 (Mar 16, 2016)

Shaky Hands said:


> The number of competitors may not be the best thing to be used to set a cap on competitor numbers when you have people registering solely to do shorter events like 3x3 and/or 2x2, but I guess there's limitations to what the WCA can do for this within the website's code.


I think the main issue is how many people the venue can take, but it's true there's a lot of people only there for 3x3. At Manchester, it was heaving during 3x3, and much quieter the rest of the time. Same room with same capacity though. Not sure what organisers can do about it.


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## EvilGnome6 (Mar 16, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> I think the main issue is how many people the venue can take, but it's true there's a lot of people only there for 3x3. At Manchester, it was heaving during 3x3, and much quieter the rest of the time. Same room with same capacity though. Not sure what organisers can do about it.



As an organizer, it is incredibly challenging to scale up the competitions. I almost burned myself out doing all the prep work for a 65 competitor event. Getting enough people to pitch in is the biggest challenge.


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## mark49152 (Mar 16, 2016)

EvilGnome6 said:


> As an organizer, it is incredibly challenging to scale up the competitions. I almost burned myself out doing all the prep work for a 65 competitor event. Getting enough people to pitch in is the biggest challenge.


Sure, but how do you decide your competitor limit?


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## EvilGnome6 (Mar 16, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> Sure, but how do you decide your competitor limit?



My biggest concern is how much help I can get. I could probably fill a venue with 100 competitors but I can't manage an event that big on my own. Leaning heavily on the delegate I could manage 65-80 but that's not their job.


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## MarcelP (Mar 16, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> Sure, but how do you decide your competitor limit?



My venue allows 80 people, I set the limit to 45. I am allready stressed by that amount since most competitor have said that they take one or 2 guests along.


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## mark49152 (Mar 16, 2016)

EvilGnome6 said:


> My biggest concern is how much help I can get. I could probably fill a venue with 100 competitors but I can't manage an event that big on my own. Leaning heavily on the delegate I could manage 65-80 but that's not their job.


The UKCA team does a great job and there always seems to be plenty of experienced people helping out with things like scrambling and data entry. Sometimes they have to call for judges but that's OK. The UK is small enough that you always see the same hardcore, experienced people at every comp, so there's plenty of support for the organisers. They have run at least one non-championship comp of size 120 in the south east and it was almost full. Comps further away tend to be smaller, like Exeter and Manchester at 60, because it's a long way for many less hardcore cubers. I'm sure the team would have no problem running a comp at 100-120 and I suspect the reason this one is smaller is because those who led the organisation of this comp couldn't find an economical venue big enough in their area, given that London is expensive. That's just a guess though.


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## EvilGnome6 (Mar 16, 2016)

MarcelP said:


> My venue allows 80 people, I set the limit to 45. I am allready stressed by that amount since most competitor have said that they take one or 2 guests along.



I made that mistake at my first comp. I had a room for 100 people with a 50 competitor limit and 150 people showed up. 

Your best bet is to get through 3x3 early on. You'll be fine after that. 

Getting the numbers to work with so many spectators is difficult. Big venues are costly. I barely broke even after selling as much in t-shirts and mats as I collected in registration fees.


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## Selkie (Mar 16, 2016)

Yes indeed the UKCA does a great job and it is not big deal to be fair. It is not like I am having to wait a year for a comp to come round again like a few years ago there is another comp in the same month  being 3rd on the list there is every chance I will still attend. The UKCA has given a lot of great structure to cubing in the UK and I am currently writing an article on them and UK cubing for the Speedsolving front page, having joined the content team.

Well following a slight delay my Cubicle order finally arrived and I did an unboxing video. Not completely rich in content I have to confess and I have no clue how but it is half hour long. Going to try and upload to Youtube now but I may need to split into two parts. Will post it here asap


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## Jason Green (Mar 16, 2016)

Selkie said:


> Yes indeed the UKCA does a great job and it is not big deal to be fair. It is not like I am having to wait a year for a comp to come round again like a few years ago there is another comp in the same month  being 3rd on the list there is every chance I will still attend. The UKCA has given a lot of great structure to cubing in the UK and I am currently writing an article on them and UK cubing for the Speedsolving front page, having joined the content team.
> 
> Well following a slight delay my Cubicle order finally arrived and I did an unboxing video. Not completely rich in content I have to confess and I have no clue how but it is half hour long. Going to try and upload to Youtube now but I may need to split into two parts. Will post it here asap



Cool that you are writing for the front page! Sounds like a good video for me to have a cigar and watch.


----------



## MarcelP (Mar 16, 2016)

EvilGnome6 said:


> I made that mistake at my first comp. I had a room for 100 people with a 50 competitor limit and 150 people showed up.
> 
> Your best bet is to get through 3x3 early on. You'll be fine after that.
> 
> Getting the numbers to work with so many spectators is difficult. Big venues are costly. I barely broke even after selling as much in t-shirts and mats as I collected in registration fees.



First round 3x3 is after lunch  Maybe too late. How much did you charge for registration btw? I am charging 5 euro. I am not in it to make money. If I come close to brake even that will be great.


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## muchacho (Mar 16, 2016)

Today I've practiced megaminx LL the way Isaac Lai recommended, I'm probably still a bit slower (it takes me around 60 seconds on average) but in a couple of days I see myself being faster than I was before. Thanks Isaac!


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## EvilGnome6 (Mar 16, 2016)

MarcelP said:


> First round 3x3 is after lunch  Maybe too late. How much did you charge for registration btw? I am charging 5 euro. I am not in it to make money. If I come close to brake even that will be great.


It was $12 base (including 3x3) + $2 per additional event. 

I collected about $1,100 in fees and paid $1,200 for the venue. I also paid $333 for the delegate's flight. 

Then there's in the cost of 8 timers and displays, cube covers, pens, stopwatches, etc. 

I'm a long, long way from breaking even on this.


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## Selkie (Mar 16, 2016)

Excuse my waffling, my inability to recoognise that Mo Fen Ge is a division of Qiyi and a lack of useful info on the cubes. Split into two parts


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## h2f (Mar 16, 2016)

@Chirs, you welcome. Nice unboxing. Just watching.


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## newtonbase (Mar 16, 2016)

1st day of practice for North London is 2x2. I hadn't realised that I've not done a single timed solve since Manchester. The last time showing on the timer app was my 3.29s PB single set the morning of the comp. 
The lack of practice showed in my lunchtime AO50 where I scraped under 15s which 3s off my normal pace with only 2 sub 10s. I got annoyed by this so learned 2 sided PBL recognition which turns out to be incredibly simple. 2 more days to get up to speed.


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## Logiqx (Mar 16, 2016)

Nice unboxing Chris.

I had it playing on the TV whilst doing some 4x4 practice.


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## Logiqx (Mar 16, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> 1st day of practice for North London is 2x2. I hadn't realised that I've not done a single timed solve since Manchester. The last time showing on the timer app was my 3.29s PB single set the morning of the comp.
> The lack of practice showed in my lunchtime AO50 where I scraped under 15s which 3s off my normal pace with only 2 sub 10s. I got annoyed by this so learned 2 sided PBL recognition which turns out to be incredibly simple. 2 more days to get up to speed.



Cool. In addition to 2 sided recognition, try to figure out which permutation will be in the bottom layer during inspection.

This makes a big difference to your times and will reduce your PBL recognition to a third imho.


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## newtonbase (Mar 16, 2016)

Logiqx said:


> Cool. In addition to 2 sided recognition, try to figure out which permutation will be in the bottom layer during inspection.
> 
> This makes a big difference to your times and will reduce your PBL recognition to a third imho.



Thanks. I'll give that a try.


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## Jason Green (Mar 16, 2016)

Logiqx said:


> Cool. In addition to 2 sided recognition, try to figure out which permutation will be in the bottom layer during inspection.
> 
> This makes a big difference to your times and will reduce your PBL recognition to a third imho.


Thanks to both of you, I'll definitely check out two sided recognition if its easy. I still have not practiced very much 2x2 and it is the least I care about doing any good right now.


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## Logiqx (Mar 16, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> Thanks. I'll give that a try.



It's a really easy thing to do during inspection and you just apply your 2-sided recognition skills after planning your face.

Another thing I do prior to starting my solve is remind myself what to expect; "bar at back, green on top", "bar on left, red on top", whatever.

It really, really helps during the solve and minimises the risk of a senior moment! 



Jason Green said:


> Thanks to both of you, I'll definitely check out two sided recognition if its easy. I still have not practiced very much 2x2 and it is the least I care about doing any good right now.



2 sided recognition is just a case of looking at the 2 stickers on each side:

- 2 matching stickers (bar / headlights) on one side and 2 adjacent stickers on the other side = adjacent swap
- 2 opposite stickers on one side and 2 adjacent stickers on the other side = adjacent swap (*)
- 2 matching stickers (bar / headlights) on both sides = no swap (**)
- 2 opposite stickers on both sides = diagonal swap

(*) If you think of the bar as "headlights" you might also think of the stickers on the opposite side as "tail lights".
(**) Added for completeness, lol


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## newtonbase (Mar 16, 2016)

Here's the link I used for recognition. 

http://tdmcubing.weebly.com/2-sided-pbl-recognition.html


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## Shaky Hands (Mar 16, 2016)

Selkie said:


> Excuse my waffling, my inability to recoognise that Mo Fen Ge is a division of Qiyi and a lack of useful info on the cubes. Split into two parts
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y_GaQtdOrdk
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xus0Gh_pWPE



Thanks Chris. Watched all of this. Interesting stuff. Look forward to hearing how you get on with these when you do your Ao5's and Mo3's.


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## Selkie (Mar 16, 2016)

Thanks for watching guys and apologies it was very long. I will do a more in depth round up of the 3x3s this weekend but some extra info having spent some time solving


I can't solve on stickerless cubes no matter what the shades 
Whilst the AoFu is lovely and I have a sub 7min Mo3 now on it I think I need cubic rather than pillowed since the corners are too small and I cannot execute my edge flip alg very quickly. Think I will order a cubic one from UK Cube Store
The pick of the bunch at this stage ... the X-Man Tornado ... Wow, what a cube, already had a sub 10 on it. Blisteringly fast like the Gans 356 with the forgivness of the YueXiou. Will keep you posted
Will try and get a few averages on the best cubes tomorrow on film


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## kbrune (Mar 16, 2016)

@Jason Green

That t shirt is awesome! I want one. Did you come up with the design?

Forget who mentioned it but I'm feeling overwhelmed by the amount of practice needed to improve. I've challenged myself to improve my sum of events so for next comp I'm learning Pyra, Skewb, Mega, and ortega for 2x2.

I feel like I have too many events that I need to work on and in the end my progress is very slow lately. Actually I've lost ground in 3x3 since (I am coming off of a 2 year hiatus but still)

Whoever mentioned having focus events. That's a great idea. I'd rather have good progress in a few events then none for all. 

Sorry about forgetting who wrote what. Read alot of pages and didn't have much time to write myself. Lol Many things I wanted to comment on.


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## Selkie (Mar 16, 2016)

kbrune said:


> @Jason Green
> 
> That t shirt is awesome! I want one. Did you come up with the design?



Yeh I love the shirt, have a dark red one on order and hoping it will be here for Exeter Open :tu


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## Jason Green (Mar 16, 2016)

kbrune said:


> @Jason Green
> 
> That t shirt is awesome! I want one. Did you come up with the design?


Thanks, please order one! I had a concept idea for a cube that had a white beard or something looking like an old man. My brother the artist could not get it looking good, but came up with that image. I thought of the CFOP2.


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## Jason Green (Mar 16, 2016)

Selkie said:


> Yeh I love the shirt, have a dark red one on order and hoping it will be here for Exeter Open (y)


Do you video your comps? It would be really cool to be able to send my brother a YouTube link of someone competing in it (besides me).


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## kbrune (Mar 16, 2016)

Jason Green said:


> Thanks, please order one! I had a concept idea for a cube that had a white beard or something looking like an old man. My brother the artist could not get it looking good, but came up with that image. I thought of the CFOP2.



Lol nice

How much is it? And where can I order one?


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## Shaky Hands (Mar 16, 2016)

Selkie said:


> Think I will order a cubic one from UK Cube Store



Looks like the guy that runs that is registered for the North London Open.


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## Jason Green (Mar 16, 2016)

kbrune said:


> Lol nice
> 
> How much is it? And where can I order one?


Ah sorry, I think I posted the link earlier. It's 24.80 for a T-shirt. You can pick different stuff like a hoodie and what color you want. 

http://www.redbubble.com/people/noelgreen/works/21225786-cfop2-cubing-is-for-old-people-2


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## Selkie (Mar 16, 2016)

Jason Green said:


> Do you video your comps? It would be really cool to be able to send my brother a YouTube link of someone competing in it (besides me).



Yes I do Jason, I will definitely wear it one of the days of the comp if it is here in time and I plan on filming all my official solves in a fortnight and uploading to Youtube  Tell him its order #9060739 and print asap 



Shaky Hands said:


> Looks like the guy that runs that is registered for the North London Open.



He was at the last comp I attended Andy, Cuthberts Open 2013, and brought me some cubes I requested with him. Thing is I would like to get some practice in on a cubic one before Exeter as with a 6:13 single tonight (PB) there is always an outside chance I could make mean cut with some practice


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## Jason Green (Mar 16, 2016)

Haha he doesn't actually run the site (not sure if you really know that). Redbubble is pretty cool, people can just upload their content and sell stuff on there. They handle all the production and shipping etc. They say there are over 350k artists with stuff for sell.


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## Selkie (Mar 16, 2016)

Jason Green said:


> Haha he doesn't actually run the site (not sure if you really know that). Redbubble is pretty cool, people can just upload their content and sell stuff on there. They handle all the production and shipping etc. They say there are over 350k artists with stuff for sell.



Ah ok. Apologies for the senior moment mate!  Sounds like a great idea :tu


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## ryuusei86 (Mar 16, 2016)

Finally got in my last order, this time from FastTech. It included three Dayan 3x3s -- a Guhong V1, a Lunhui, and a Zhanchi -- and to be honest, I hate them all.  Granted I didn't do much to them besides restickering -- just sprayed the insides with silicone spray, and in the case of the Zhanchi, installed six #4S flat washers. So far I haven't found anything I like better than my Tanglong, which is why I've ordered a Yuexiao and a Fangshi Jieyun from Lightake, since these puzzles seem to have been very well received. If I don't like them either, I'll try lubing and retensioning all of them for real and see how much it makes a difference. In the worst case I might try to sell most of them, since eight 3x3s seems like a waste to me (although you're all probably laughing at my suggesting it).

(I also ordered my first Megaminx and 5x5 in that same Lightake order. Yes I'm the one who said the Megaminx terrified me.)

I think I'm making progress with the Roux method, though it sometimes seems like two steps forward and one step back. If I can only get better at those last six or even last four edges, and can stop making stupid mistakes along the way, I might actually get to the point of it being worth timing myself.


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## Jason Green (Mar 17, 2016)

Maybe keep some as giveaways? I like the idea of keeping some on hand like was talked about. Currently I don't keep cubes in different locations such as work, I just tote my main around everywhere I go. 

I did like the Tanglong but (as I said) the Yuexiao is my fave right now. Have you tried the Gans? It's very good too although a little pricey. But with as many as you're buying I don't think you'd balk at that.


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## Selkie (Mar 17, 2016)

ryuusei86 said:


> Finally got in my last order, this time from FastTech. It included three Dayan 3x3s -- a Guhong V1, a Lunhui, and a Zhanchi -- and to be honest, I hate them all.  Granted I didn't do much to them besides restickering -- just sprayed the insides with silicone spray, and in the case of the Zhanchi, installed six #4S flat washers. So far I haven't found anything I like better than my Tanglong, which is why I've ordered a Yuexiao and a Fangshi Jieyun from Lightake, since these puzzles seem to have been very well received. If I don't like them either, I'll try lubing and retensioning all of them for real and see how much it makes a difference. In the worst case I might try to sell most of them, since eight 3x3s seems like a waste to me (although you're all probably laughing at my suggesting it).
> 
> (I also ordered my first Megaminx and 5x5 in that same Lightake order. Yes I'm the one who said the Megaminx terrified me.)
> 
> I think I'm making progress with the Roux method, though it sometimes seems like two steps forward and one step back. If I can only get better at those last six or even last four edges, and can stop making stupid mistakes along the way, I might actually get to the point of it being worth timing myself.



I remember the DaYan cubes with fondness. Learn most of my LL algs on a LingYun and a Zhanchi was my main for 3 years, longer than any other cube. My Zhanchi has so many solves it felt like velvet but I picked it up the other day and it felt so rough compared to other cubes I couldn't believe how it felt. You wont solve on them compared to a Tanglong but good to have them. I have a couple of DaYan prototypes in the attic that I'll never part with 

With the cubicle unboxing a distant memory I have placed an order with UK Cube Store ) ...
MoYu Yongjun Guansu 4x4 Black
Moyu Tanglong Black
Moyu Aofu GT Black
Qiyi Square 1 cube Stickerless
Qiyi Mofangge pyraminx Stickerless


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## Jason Green (Mar 17, 2016)

Selkie said:


> MoYu Yongjun Guansu 4x4 Black
> Moyu Tanglong Black
> Moyu Aofu GT Black
> Qiyi Square 1 cube Stickerless
> Qiyi Mofangge pyraminx Stickerless


Haha some people might think we have an issue. I'm going to read my wife some of these orders, she'll see my cube collection is dinky. 

Back on shirts, for people that do BLD and one handed, what about a hand holding a cube, a blindfold mask, and the caption "I can do it blindfolded with one hand behind my back" ??


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## ryuusei86 (Mar 17, 2016)

Jason Green said:


> Maybe keep some as giveaways? I like the idea of keeping some on hand like was talked about. Currently I don't keep cubes in different locations such as work, I just tote my main around everywhere I go.
> 
> I did like the Tanglong but (as I said) the Yuexiao is my fave right now. Have you tried the Gans? It's very good too although a little pricey. But with as many as you're buying I don't think you'd balk at that.



I do want to keep maybe one or two that I'm not currently using, for sticker mods or maybe something more destructive. I know I want to do the one where you use two sticker colors per face, divided diagonally along each face.

The rest I'll probably put up for sale or trade. So far I've kind of shrunk back at the cost of the most recent Gans 3x3s, but who knows? Maybe someone with an extra one will trade for two DaYan 3x3s or something like that.  I must admit I'm also especially curious to see how the YueXiao compares to my TangLong. 

Finally, it's also not impossible that any or all of these three DaYan puzzles will improve if I put some work into them. My Cyclone Boys 3x3 and 4x4 both went from mediocre at best to very good indeed with a bit of work, as did my cheap YuPo 2x2. And I don't even mean any irreversible alterations. The learning experience alone could be worthwhile, even if I wind up selling or trading them afterwards.


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## kbrune (Mar 17, 2016)

@ Jason Green

Nice PB back there in the thread btw. That's impressive. I tried the scramble for fun. I got 23.xx on it. Scrambles like that are a nightmare for me. so many nice blocks that I have choice overload and stare at the pretty blocks for 8 out of 15 seconds lol
When I tried the solution you provided I got 14.80 and 10.51 on first and second try. Good job on that PB


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## Jason Green (Mar 17, 2016)

kbrune said:


> @ Jason Green
> 
> Nice PB back there in the thread btw. That's impressive. I tried the scramble for fun. I got 23.xx on it. Scrambles like that are a nightmare for me. so many nice blocks that I have choice overload and stare at the pretty blocks for 8 out of 15 seconds lol
> When I tried the solution you provided I got 14.80 and 10.51 on first and second try. Good job on that PB


Thanks! I tried several times and never got below 11.25. Oh well a while back I think Marcel posted a nice scramble and I practiced several times and got to like 16, so I guess I'm getting faster. 

I learned the 2 side PBL recognition for 2x2. It's pretty easy but slow for me to process at this point. Thanks again for the info Mike and Mark!


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## muchacho (Mar 17, 2016)

Megaminx LL,
Ao5 PB: 40.6
Ao12 PB: 50.6

Still slower than using just Sunes for EP, but getting closer.


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## mafergut (Mar 17, 2016)

Oh, I'm gone for 2 days and I've lost like 3 pages of this thread!
Nice LL times, David. How's the race to sub-4 going? I have not had a chance to solve anything in two days. Too busy with work.
Regarding 2x2. I definitely recommend to assess during inspection what 1st layer you are going to get and, if it's a bar, putting the bar where it needs to be for all or at least most of your PBLs so that you don't need any D/D'/D2 after solving OLL.

For example, most my PBLs are bottom bar in front so I leave the bar in front before OLL. The only PBL that needs a change is when I get a solved layer on top, so I need to do an "upside-down T-perm", where my alg is with bottom bar on left. In that only case I just do a y before performing the alg, in all other cases I just align the top layer if needed (when it's also a bar) and spam my PBL  as fast as I can.

Also, it's useful to come up with a way to determine AUF before or while you perform your PBL, for example, for double bar in front, if both bars as same color I know I don't need AUF, if they are opposite color I know I need a U2, if they are adjacent I check the bottom left sticker while performing my alg and see if it is the same or opposite to the color that the top bar had, and I know I need a U (if same) or U' if opposite. This, of course, depends on your alg. Every tenth of a second counts in 2x2.


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## muchacho (Mar 17, 2016)

mafergut said:


> Nice LL times, David. How's the race to sub-4 going? I have not had a chance to solve anything in two days. Too busy with work.


I won't say that it's going backwards but I'm slower, I've practiced LL (using algs for EP instead of sune) more than doing full solves, and still slower at that.


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## mafergut (Mar 17, 2016)

muchacho said:


> I won't say that it's going backwards but I'm slower, I've practiced LL (using algs for EP instead of sune) more than doing full solves, and still slower at that.



I think I can manage to get to sub-4 without changing my LL approach. I just need to learn the Niklas mirrored and also learn to recognize which of the two I need and maybe change the order of CP and CO and do what you did (CO first and then CP with commutator). Maybe than can save me some seconds. If and when I see that I'm reaching my limit I will consider to learn algs for LL. My fear is just that it will make me slower in the short term, as you seem to experience and also that I will easily forget the algs unless I practise a lot and it's not like 3x3 where you can do an Ao50 in an hour or so and get to practise 2 or 3 times each and every PLL and almost every OLL. With Mega I cannot do an Ao50 in a day 

But what I need the most is a modded SS. Maybe I'll order a 2nd one and mod it. I don't want my modding work to span for weeks and not have a Mega to practice with (did I say I hate my Yuhu? ). That way I will have my current one unmodded while I mod the other.


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## Selkie (Mar 17, 2016)

52.2 4x4 PB - LL was just OLL parity! - On a Cyclone Boys G4 Stickerless and I said I couldnt solve on stickerless, its growing on me 

Also X-Man Tornado is awesome, not even fully broken in and its my main now


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## newtonbase (Mar 17, 2016)

Day 2 of 2x2 has got me back to sub 12 with PBs in all averages up to 50. 2 sided PBL recognition is helping but a bit more practice is needed to predict 1st layer permutation. If the kids behave I'll do another 50 later.


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## mark49152 (Mar 17, 2016)

Selkie said:


> 52.2 4x4 PB - LL was just OLL parity!


Nice one 

My 4BLD is going backwards this week. Success rate is about 30% and average of last 5 successes is over 11 minutes


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## kbrune (Mar 17, 2016)

@mafergut

Nice explanation for 2x2. I'm struggling a bit with ortega. I'm improving but many cases I fumble through. 

You said you keep your bottom bar in front. For me it seems that most of my algs are for bar in the back. Where did you learn your algs? 

I often get messed up when top layer is solved. I have to completely rotate the cube to do T perm. I used to use J perm but I jam up on 2x2 alot. How does your upside down T perm go. My brain can't picture it. 

also what do you use when you have only 2 diagonal corners left? I can't do Y perm fast. I hate when it comes up.

what's your inspection preferences. Do you always plan for a bar? Or do you also go for no bar or solved first layer?


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## Jason Green (Mar 17, 2016)

Someone shared a nice cheat sheet quite a while ago, I have a hard copy but forgot whose it is. I am actually still just using crazy bad cubers algs from YouTube which means I have to rotate for PBL. I'm no good so who cares, just sharing anyway.


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## mafergut (Mar 17, 2016)

kbrune said:


> @mafergut
> 
> Nice explanation for 2x2. I'm struggling a bit with ortega. I'm improving but many cases I fumble through.
> You said you keep your bottom bar in front. For me it seems that most of my algs are for bar in the back. Where did you learn your algs?
> ...



I got most my algs from Chris Olson's / cyotheking site.
I also hate when I have a diag swap or bar on bottom and all of a sudden I get a solved top layer without wanting, that's one of the worst things of Ortega. My 4 algs for T and Y perm alternatives on top and on bottom are these (but I have to admit that I still use T-perm for adj swap on top most of the time because I get very few, see below why, and at times I forget that alg):

Diag swap on top: R U' R' U' F2 U' R U R' D R2
Diag swap on bottom. Same alg cancelling into R2 B2 R2 (or R2 F2 R2): R U' R' U' F2 U' R U R' D B2 R2
Adjacent swap on top (bar in front): R' U R' F2 R F' R' F2 R2 (U or other AUF)
Adjacent swap on bottom (*bar on the left*): R2 U' R' U L' U2 R U' R' U2

The last one is the fastest of them all. I can try to film a fingertrick video showing how I execute it, if you want. Also, I try to avoid having a solved layer on bottom as much as I can, unless it is, by far, the easiest face I can see during inspection (and in that case I wish for a PBL skip ). Whenever I can see a face with bar or diag swap even if it's a couple moves longer than the layer I go for that.


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## h2f (Mar 17, 2016)

Thanks Miguel for algs. The last one is really great. I also use cyo's algs but i prefer with bar on the back and I love bar on the bottom back.


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## newtonbase (Mar 17, 2016)

h2f said:


> Thanks Miguel for algs. The last one is really great. I also use cyo's algs but i prefer with bar on the back and I love bar on the bottom back.



That one does look good. Unfortunately tonight's practice session got cancelled due to a malfunctioning washing machine. I'll try it tomorrow.


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## Shaky Hands (Mar 17, 2016)

Selkie said:


> 52.2 4x4 PB - LL was just OLL parity! - On a Cyclone Boys G4 Stickerless and I said I couldnt solve on stickerless, its growing on me



As I ordered one this afternoon, this bodes well. Cool and congrats.


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## Logiqx (Mar 17, 2016)

Jason Green said:


> Someone shared a nice cheat sheet quite a while ago, I have a hard copy but forgot whose it is. I am actually still just using crazy bad cubers algs from YouTube which means I have to rotate for PBL. I'm no good so who cares, just sharing anyway.



That was me, I think...

http://cubing.mikeg.me.uk/Ortega.pdf


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## Jason Green (Mar 17, 2016)

Logiqx said:


> That was me, I think...
> 
> http://cubing.mikeg.me.uk/Ortega.pdf


That's the one!


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## kbrune (Mar 18, 2016)

mafergut said:


> I can try to film a fingertrick video showing how I execute it, if you want.



That would be cool to see actually. No rush but i'll definitely watch and learn from it if film it.

** I just figured out how to execute the fast one. I'm in love with it! As long as I can recog the case it should come in handy.


----------



## Jason Green (Mar 18, 2016)

Chris, finally watched the big unboxing, that was entertaining. You should do more cube reviews and stuff.


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## JohnnyReggae (Mar 18, 2016)

Logiqx said:


> That was me, I think...
> 
> http://cubing.mikeg.me.uk/Ortega.pdf



Initially when learning 2x2 I found Andy Klise's site with algs on nicely printable pdf's ... There are also a bunch of other alg sheets for other cubes. It is a great resource site IMO.

http://www.kungfoomanchu.com/home.html

http://www.kungfoomanchu.com/guides/andy-klise-2x2x2-speedcubing-guide.pdf


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## Logiqx (Mar 18, 2016)

JohnnyReggae said:


> Initially when learning 2x2 I found Andy Klise's site with algs on nicely printable pdf's ... There are also a bunch of other alg sheets for other cubes. It is a great resource site IMO.
> 
> http://www.kungfoomanchu.com/home.html
> 
> http://www.kungfoomanchu.com/guides/andy-klise-2x2x2-speedcubing-guide.pdf



Yeah. I've used Andy's cheat sheets in the past as well.

Mine was never intended for sharing. I created it to record my own alg preferences.


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## h2f (Mar 18, 2016)

And they are great - I've seen two algs similiar to sq-1 with: one bar on left and diagonal swap.


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## EvilGnome6 (Mar 18, 2016)

I used Andy Klise's site for CLLs and created a Google Doc with my own selections:

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1778FJTiASovNoaX8wGQj8X_nC_Is6FlepuAm-0wjDvA/edit?usp=sharing

You can copy it and modify it to your liking. Each image has a hyperlink to the image generator page in case you want to change the orientation.


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## MarcelP (Mar 18, 2016)

I did an Ao50 on 4x4 this week.. man that takes some time  One of my best solves in there was a sub 1:30 with double parity.. My eyes hurt looking at this video. I just can't seem to handle 4x4 cubes smoothly.. Nothing but catches and lockes.


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## mafergut (Mar 18, 2016)

EvilGnome6 said:


> I used Andy Klise's site for CLLs and created a Google Doc with my own selections:
> 
> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1778FJTiASovNoaX8wGQj8X_nC_Is6FlepuAm-0wjDvA/edit?usp=sharing
> 
> You can copy it and modify it to your liking. Each image has a hyperlink to the image generator page in case you want to change the orientation.



Nice! CLL is on my TO DO list since I learned Ortega 



MarcelP said:


> I did an Ao50 on 4x4 this week.. man that takes some time  One of my best solves in there was a sub 1:30 with double parity.. My eyes hurt looking at this video. I just can't seem to handle 4x4 cubes smoothly.. Nothing but catches and lockes.



We seem to be quite close at 4x4. I also have some locking problems and your lookahead seems like a bit better than mine, so I tend to get 1:4x times. I have to practise a lot more but right now Mega is taking some time off my schedule


----------



## Selkie (Mar 18, 2016)

MarcelP said:


> I did an Ao50 on 4x4 this week.. man that takes some time  One of my best solves in there was a sub 1:30 with double parity.. My eyes hurt looking at this video. I just can't seem to handle 4x4 cubes smoothly.. Nothing but catches and lockes.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NJ-pMWnHIuk&feature=youtu.be



It will get smoother in time Marcel. I do find the Cyclone Boys a lot less locky than any other 4x4 I have tried. Persevere with it and you will get faster :tu



EvilGnome6 said:


> I used Andy Klise's site for CLLs and created a Google Doc with my own selections:
> 
> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1778FJTiASovNoaX8wGQj8X_nC_Is6FlepuAm-0wjDvA/edit?usp=sharing
> 
> You can copy it and modify it to your liking. Each image has a hyperlink to the image generator page in case you want to change the orientation.



Very useful :tu

------

I used Andy Klise's PDFs as well some years ago, still got loads printed out in a folder 

------
@Jason

Thanks I will hopefully be receiving another parcel today to do another unboxing. I will look at doing reviews but they might be a bit boring 

@Andy and Mark

Thanks, was so surprised with teh single but it was just OLL parity, no OLL or PLL!! The cyclone boys is a lovely cube and already my main 4x4


----------



## h2f (Mar 18, 2016)

MarcelP said:


> I did an Ao50 on 4x4 this week.. man that takes some time  One of my best solves in there was a sub 1:30 with double parity.. My eyes hurt looking at this video. I just can't seem to handle 4x4 cubes smoothly.. Nothing but catches and lockes.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NJ-pMWnHIuk&feature=youtu.be



I think it's a matter of practice. I have a 2 year old Aosu and sometimes I do a lot of lockups. Nice solve. Without parities sub 1:20.


----------



## EvilGnome6 (Mar 18, 2016)

Here's the PLL parity algorithm I use. I like it because it only has one slice and is easy to execute on 6x6 as well.

Uw2 Rw2 U2 (Rw2 R'2) U2 Rw2 Uw2


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## h2f (Mar 18, 2016)

I use the one with r2 (not Rw) and executed almost like H perm.


----------



## Logiqx (Mar 18, 2016)

I decided not to bring my camcorder with me this weekend then this happens...

16.67 Ao12 - yay!

16. 16.31 L2 B2 U L2 B2 D' B2 U2 R2 U L' R' B U F D2 F' L2 B' R' 
17. 17.48 U2 F' R' F2 U' F' B' L R2 D' R2 F2 R2 B2 R2 D F2 L2 U2 F' 
18. 16.36 D2 R' B2 F2 U2 L' R' D2 U2 R B2 U F' D' F2 L D' U L F' 
19. 15.96 F' D2 B L2 F2 D2 B' U2 R2 D2 L D' L' F L' B U2 R' F' L B' 
20. 15.00 R D2 L' F2 R2 B2 L2 F2 U2 D F2 R' F' R U2 L2 B2 D2 L' 
21. (13.48) R2 D' L2 U' F2 D2 L2 U' R2 D' R' D' L2 R2 U2 R2 B R' D 
22. 18.71 D' L2 F2 U' B2 D' F2 R2 F2 D U' B' D F U2 B R' U' L2 B2 
23. 17.11 D' F U2 F' L2 B2 F D2 R2 F2 L F2 U L' D' L D U R' 
24. (19.04) R2 F2 U L2 B2 L2 U2 L2 D2 B2 U' R D R2 D' B' L' U' L' D' B2 
25. 15.48 B2 U L2 U2 F2 U' F2 R2 F2 U' F2 R' U2 F2 U' L' D U2 B R2 F 
26. 17.03 R2 D' L' B' R' D2 B' D' B U' F2 U' L2 U' B2 D2 L2 B 
27. 17.24 U R U2 F2 L' D2 L' F2 R2 F2 R' D R2 B' D2 U2 B' D R2 D2


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## mafergut (Mar 18, 2016)

I did my Mega Ao5 for this weekly comp and I didn't like the results that much, so I had to do another Ao12 after that 

Generated By csTimer on 2016-3-18
avg of 12: 3:50.46

Time List:
3:47.72, 3:26.34, 3:45.19, 3:40.59, (3:23.73), (4:40.55), 3:45.84, 4:39.92, 3:48.57, 4:07.63, 3:44.44, 3:38.35

The 1st 5 solves make also PB Ao5 = 3:37.38.

The two solves around 4:40 I had some weird mistake that destroyed a pair when finishing S2L and had to redo part of the puzzle.

Next stop, sub 3:30. Then maybe learn proper LL algs.


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## h2f (Mar 18, 2016)

Awsome Miguel.


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## Selkie (Mar 18, 2016)

Logiqx said:


> I decided not to bring my camcorder with me this weekend then this happens...
> 
> 16.67 Ao12 - yay!



Awesome, well done :tu



mafergut said:


> I did my Mega Ao5 for this weekly comp and I didn't like the results that much, so I had to do another Ao12 after that
> 
> Generated By csTimer on 2016-3-18
> avg of 12: 3:50.46
> ...



Wow, very motivating, I must start the race!


----------



## mafergut (Mar 18, 2016)

Thanks!

@Mike: Nice PLL parity alg. I will try it and maybe change to it.


----------



## muchacho (Mar 18, 2016)

Not bad 

3:37 is my PB single


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## mark49152 (Mar 18, 2016)

4BLD PB 8:28. Back on track. Got it on cam too...


----------



## h2f (Mar 18, 2016)

Nice Mark, congrats! Me 7:37 off by few pcs but with 3 minutes execution. But last success was 8:39.

Todays ao50 in 4x4

Generated By csTimer on 2016-3-18
solves/total: 50/50

single
best: 1:06.15
worst: 1:38.54

mean of 3
current: 1:23.17 (σ = 10.78)
best: 1:12.70 (σ = 6.98)

avg of 5
current: 1:19.40 (σ = 4.35)
best: 1:14.05 (σ = 2.78)

avg of 12
current: 1:18.51 (σ = 4.66)
best: 1:16.02 (σ = 5.13)

avg of 50
current: 1:19.42 (σ = 5.88)
best: 1:19.42 (σ = 5.88)

Average: 1:19.42 (σ = 5.88)
Mean: 1:19.69


----------



## Jason Green (Mar 18, 2016)

EvilGnome6 said:


> I used Andy Klise's site for CLLs and created a Google Doc with my own selections:
> 
> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1778FJTiASovNoaX8wGQj8X_nC_Is6FlepuAm-0wjDvA/edit?usp=sharing
> 
> You can copy it and modify it to your liking. Each image has a hyperlink to the image generator page in case you want to change the orientation.



That's really cool, I did not know that php site existed to make images!



EvilGnome6 said:


> Here's the PLL parity algorithm I use. I like it because it only has one slice and is easy to execute on 6x6 as well.
> 
> Uw2 Rw2 U2 (Rw2 R'2) U2 Rw2 Uw2
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P5rjmBlLZHk



That's the one I use too. I do it like Crazy Bad Cuber showed where I grab the upper left 2x2x4 block and do not let go to do the Uw2 Rw2. Then grab the bottom right 2x2x4 block to move it back at the end. 



Logiqx said:


> I decided not to bring my camcorder with me this weekend then this happens...
> 
> 16.67 Ao12 - yay!



Awesome!


----------



## APdRF (Mar 18, 2016)

EvilGnome6 said:


> Here's the PLL parity algorithm I use. I like it because it only has one slice and is easy to execute on 6x6 as well.
> 
> Uw2 Rw2 U2 (Rw2 R'2) U2 Rw2 Uw2
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P5rjmBlLZHk



That's THE PARITY, best alg ever


----------



## Selkie (Mar 18, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> 4BLD PB 8:28. Back on track. Got it on cam too...



Wow, look forward to seeing it if you upload it 



h2f said:


> Nice Mark, congrats! Me 7:37 off by few pcs but with 3 minutes execution. But last success was 8:39.
> 
> Todays ao50 in 4x4



Really nice ao5 and 12 there :tu

@4x4 Race

First sub 1:06 Ao12 ... 1:05.62. Sorry wasn't on film. My wife is out on a work girls night out and lighting in the study is awful when it is dark so cubing in the kitchen. Loving the strip light, going to fit one in the study this weekend


----------



## Selkie (Mar 18, 2016)

What do you guys use as mains for MegaMinx? I have been trying to get an Ao5 with my MF8 one but the lockups are insane. It is 6 years old with little use


----------



## newtonbase (Mar 19, 2016)

EvilGnome6 said:


> Here's the PLL parity algorithm I use. I like it because it only has one slice and is easy to execute on 6x6 as well.
> 
> Uw2 Rw2 U2 (Rw2 R'2) U2 Rw2 Uw2
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P5rjmBlLZHk



That's brilliant. Currently practicing in my head until I can get to a cube. 

My 3 days of dedicated 2x2 practice is over and I'm comfortably back to my best but still very erratic. I still over and under turn. 

Tomorrow (today?) is general practice but I've got a 40th birthday party to go to so may get nothing done and Sunday could be a write off depending on alcohol consumption levels. Life keeps getting in the way of cubing.


----------



## Lid (Mar 19, 2016)

Not liking that PLL par alg, I prefer Rw2 F2 U2 r2 U2 F2 Rw2.



Selkie said:


> What do you guys use as mains for MegaMinx? I have been trying to get an Ao5 with my MF8 one but the lockups are insane. It is 6 years old with little use



I use an old Mefferts with tiles as main, but also currently breaking in a Dayan (no ridges) with mf8 tiles. And I think you should get something else than that not so good mf8 

Here is picture of it, plus all my other mains. http://imgur.com/wK2Hqbs


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## Selkie (Mar 19, 2016)

@Stefan

I had heard some old school megaminx's were great, seen a UK cuber sub 1 average on an unknown minx about 5 years ago. Any reason the megaminx is the only black puzzle? You seem to love stickerless but I have to confess after solving on a stickerless Cyclone Boys G4 for a day I have broke all PBs. Just cant seem to repeat that on 3x3 etc. I'll order a DaYan, as to be fair you are the fastest old man around, I'll take the advice 



newtonbase said:


> That's brilliant. Currently practicing in my head until I can get to a cube.
> 
> My 3 days of dedicated 2x2 practice is over and I'm comfortably back to my best but still very erratic. I still over and under turn.
> 
> Tomorrow (today?) is general practice but I've got a 40th birthday party to go to so may get nothing done and Sunday could be a write off depending on alcohol consumption levels. Life keeps getting in the way of cubing.



Yup thats always been my PLL parity alg though I execute it as r2R2' as I dont have the finger accuracy to execute the m slices. Really hope some drop out so I can make London


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## Isaac Lai (Mar 19, 2016)

Selkie said:


> @Stefan
> 
> I had heard some old school megaminx's were great, seen a UK cuber sub 1 average on an unknown minx about 5 years ago. Any reason the megaminx is the only black puzzle? You seem to love stickerless but I have to confess after solving on a stickerless Cyclone Boys G4 for a day I have broke all PBs. Just cant seem to repeat that on 3x3 etc. I'll order a DaYan, as to be fair you are the fastest old man around, I'll take the advice



In terms of megaminx hardware, I think the old 'veteran' megaminxers like Simon Westlund and Balint Bodor use old and extremely broken in Mefferts minxes. However, because they aren't produced anymore (I think), newer minxers like Felipe Rueda, Juan Pablo Huanqui and Nicolas Naing use Dayans and modded Shengshous, which are better out of the box and get better with breaking in. But there are people who use theMf8 like Lucas Wesche and Henri Gerber (thecoolminxer). 

That being said, most megaminxes need quite a bit of breaking in (or modding for the shengshou) before they become good.


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## kbrune (Mar 19, 2016)

Finally getting mega under 6 minutes. Set my PB earlier today at 4:45.xx


number of times: 5/5
best time: 5:18.11
worst time: 6:18.36

current avg5: 5:49.25 (σ = 15.21)
best avg5: 5:49.25 (σ = 15.21)

session avg: 5:49.25 (σ = 15.21)
session mean: 5:48.84


I don't know if i'll ever be consistent. I've got my sequence down fairly good but I spend sooooo much time just looking for pieces. CO is a problem for me right now too. If It's a case I don't know I just do sune or anti sune and see what's next. some cases I've come to be able to set up. But other cases are a disaster. If I get down around 4 min i'll have to learn all the CO cases.


Just got a 4:39.43 right after posting this lol New PB!


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## muchacho (Mar 19, 2016)

You'll improve your times faster just by doing solves, finding the pieces is probably where most of the time can be saved for now (at least it was for me), you don't need algs for CO for now... but I've learned the 2 cases that orient 5 corners, and I'll learn some more, they are not difficult.


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## mark49152 (Mar 19, 2016)

h2f said:


> Nice Mark, congrats! Me 7:37 off by few pcs but with 3 minutes execution. But last success was 8:39


Memo for my 8:28 was 4:33 with 3:55 execution. At the moment, I think my accuracy depends on execution but my times depend on memo. Often I just struggle in the memo and have to go back over it, wasting 2-3 minutes. With 2 weeks left till comp, I'm not sure how to practise, except just do more solves.



EvilGnome6 said:


> Here's the PLL parity algorithm I use. I like it because it only has one slice and is easy to execute on 6x6 as well.
> 
> Uw2 Rw2 U2 (Rw2 R'2) U2 Rw2 Uw2


I've seen fast people use that in comp, and it looks impressive, but I can't get it to work well for me because of the regrips for Rw2. I use this one:-

r2 U2 r2 Uw2 r2 Uw2 U2

Slices with left, U turns with right. How do you do your setups for adjacent parity? I do (l' R') F' and start the slice with left hand but then have a short delay while I regrip to hold the R face.


----------



## h2f (Mar 19, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> At the moment, I think my accuracy depends on execution but my times depend on memo. Often I just struggle in the memo and have to go back over it, wasting 2-3 minutes.



Same me but I practicse comms on centers and I try to do them faster.



mark49152 said:


> How do you do your setups for adjacent parity? I do (l' R') F' and start the slice with left hand but then have a short delay while I regrip to hold the R face.



I do R U R' U' seutp and when I do parity r2 U2 r2 Uw2 r2 Uw2 U2 I dont do last U2 but only U' R U R'.


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## mark49152 (Mar 19, 2016)

h2f said:


> Same me but I practicse comms on centers and I try to do them faster.


I did 1-2 weeks practising centres only to learn better finger tricks and advanced U2 tricks, and it got my centres exec down to about 1:20-1:30 which is on target for 3:30 execution overall. Right now I think my focus should be memo and pauses. I think your memo is generally much faster than mine.

If I learn comms, I wonder if it should be for wings, since there are so many targets and it accounts for half of execution.


h2f said:


> I do R U R' U' seutp and when I do parity r2 U2 r2 Uw2 r2 Uw2 U2 I dont do last U2 but only U' R U R'.


That's better, I will try that for a while. Thanks.


----------



## mark49152 (Mar 19, 2016)

For anyone interested, here's my MBLD from Manchester Open 2016. Sorry for the glum reaction - I was just mentally tired and glad to get the blindfold off .


----------



## MarcelP (Mar 19, 2016)

Awesome... Really really cool.


----------



## muchacho (Mar 19, 2016)

Nice!
Was the first solved cube a Gans 356? Is more difficult if not using the same model for all cubes?


----------



## mark49152 (Mar 19, 2016)

muchacho said:


> Nice!
> Was the first solved cube a Gans 356? Is more difficult if not using the same model for all cubes?


No not a 356. I think it's a Yuxin. Yes I find it harder when the cubes are inconsistent or not set up as well as my mains. You can see on the corners stage of the first cube I'm having some trouble with the corners pulling out.


----------



## EvilGnome6 (Mar 19, 2016)

h2f said:


> I do R U R' U' seutp and when I do parity r2 U2 r2 Uw2 r2 Uw2 U2 I dont do last U2 but only U' R U R'.



I use the same setup. The Uw2 Rw2 U2 (Rw2 R'2) U2 Rw2 Uw2 doesn't have any U2s to truncate. I've truncated any trailing Us from all my algorithms, actually.


----------



## h2f (Mar 19, 2016)

Awsome Mark!


----------



## mafergut (Mar 19, 2016)

Another 3 pages!!! You guys post fast these days. Nice the cancellation with RUR'U'. I use that alg and setup for adjacent parity and had never thought of it. Thanks! I got my 1st sub 1:40 (and with double parity) at 4x4 this week so slowly progressing. In 5x5, though, I don't seem to be able to make any progress 

Impressive that 5/5 Mark!

Regarding Mega I'm using a Shengshou, unmodded. It's super smooth and it's breaking in slowly but, without modding it locks up a lot. If not going to mod it maybe the best choice is a Dayan, which you can also get with ridges and even stickerless if you prefer.


----------



## Lid (Mar 19, 2016)

Selkie said:


> @Stefan
> 
> I had heard some old school megaminx's were great, seen a UK cuber sub 1 average on an unknown minx about 5 years ago. Any reason the megaminx is the only black puzzle? You seem to love stickerless but I have to confess after solving on a stickerless Cyclone Boys G4 for a day I have broke all PBs. Just cant seem to repeat that on 3x3 etc. I'll order a DaYan, as to be fair you are the fastest old man around, I'll take the advice


Back when I got my Mefferts there were only black minxes around (~2009). And I just hate changing stickers all the time, so stickless are perfect for me, and I got a SL pyraminx now also


----------



## mafergut (Mar 19, 2016)

Lid said:


> Back when I got my Mefferts there were only black minxes around (~2009). And I just hate changing stickers all the time, so stickless are perfect for me, and I got a SL pyraminx now also



QiYi (pyraminx), I assume? The perfect Mega for you, then, would be a Dayan, for sure


----------



## Jason Green (Mar 19, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> For anyone interested, here's my MBLD from Manchester Open 2016. Sorry for the glum reaction - I was just mentally tired and glad to get the blindfold off .
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=63t_X7-fIOQ


Amazing. I want to do something amazing some day.


----------



## newtonbase (Mar 19, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> For anyone interested, here's my MBLD from Manchester Open 2016. Sorry for the glum reaction - I was just mentally tired and glad to get the blindfold off .
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=63t_X7-fIOQ



Excellent filming, and who's that handsome judge?


----------



## muchacho (Mar 19, 2016)

Megaminx PBs

Single: 3:18
Ao5: 3:45
Ao12: 4:01

I was determined to get the sub-4 ao12 today, but it seems it's not gonna happen.


----------



## Selkie (Mar 19, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> For anyone interested, here's my MBLD from Manchester Open 2016. Sorry for the glum reaction - I was just mentally tired and glad to get the blindfold off .
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=63t_X7-fIOQ



Wow, awesome. Enjoyed watching that Mark :tu

@4x4 Race thread

Tried to get another sub 1:06 ao12 on film but failed so this will have to do. Loving the new Cyclone Boys Stickerless. A lovely cube :tu

Average of 12: 1:06.88
Average of 5: 1:04.04 (First 5 solves)


Spoiler



1. 1:10.30 f' U2 D' r D B2 D' L B2 U D B' f R' L f2 r f' r U B2 D2 f' D2 r2 f R' U' r L' f' R r2 U2 r R L u2 f2 u2 
2. 59.58 D' B2 r R2 F' r' D R u R' F' r B U' r2 F2 B2 L' F' L2 u D r D F' f2 r2 D2 L u' F2 U2 f' F' D' F' r' U' R D' 
3. (1:22.56) f2 L' D2 f2 R' F R D' L' R u2 R F' L' r' D2 F D2 r2 U' D F' u' U2 f' F2 U R' B' F' r F r U' D2 R2 u r' f F2 
4. 1:02.23 D r2 U' D' R' f' U' f r' D2 r2 u f' u2 F' u' L2 u' B2 u U' R F' D L2 f F B' R r' F' u' R' U' D r2 u' R D' r2 
5. (58.12) f' U2 u' B' L R' f2 u2 B U r2 U L' u2 U' D2 B U2 F' U2 f2 u R D' L' f D B2 U' f2 B2 U u2 r B2 f2 D' L2 u r2 
6. 1:13.88 B2 F R2 L2 D2 u' r' U u2 R' L f2 D u U2 F2 R2 r D2 F2 R2 F' B2 u2 R' u' r' u2 f' L' F2 f2 L2 D r F2 U' f' r R 
7. 1:11.75 L2 F2 u2 L R B2 r R D' u B F2 D' f2 R2 u L2 f D L R U2 F' B u2 U' B' f2 L' B' L U2 r2 B f L f2 U2 B' r' 
8. 1:08.24 F2 r R2 f B2 R F L2 D2 U u f F2 B' u2 f' r2 R2 B' D B' f r f' F2 B' U r2 L' B R' u2 f F' R u D2 U' r' L' 
9. 1:04.50 L R2 B D r' D L' F L' u2 f' F' L R2 D' L2 f2 U' F' L' r' f B2 r2 u2 r2 D' U r F' R B2 U2 f2 R B' f2 R L' r 
10. 1:01.87 f2 r' L u2 L2 B' L' F' r' B2 L u' D' U r' B' L' B' L r2 F2 u' U' B F' R2 r u2 R' F2 D' F2 B' u r R D' r2 B2 f 
11. 1:09.95 u2 R2 D f' R B2 L' U2 B2 U' L' f2 D R2 L' D' f u2 f D2 F' r D F' B' D2 U' B' f r2 D' u U2 r' u2 r2 L D2 U' B' 
12. 1:06.53 f' F' R2 f' L2 u2 D' U L2 D' U2 R' D f' R' f u' B2 R L2 D2 R' B f' R2 F' u' L2 F2 L' R F' r R B u U' r2 L2 f2


----------



## muchacho (Mar 19, 2016)

Lovely mug! (sorry if it had appeared multiple times, it's the first time I see it)


----------



## MarcelP (Mar 19, 2016)

The cubicle T-shirt must have helped too  Nice solves Chris!


----------



## Selkie (Mar 19, 2016)

muchacho said:


> Megaminx PBs
> 
> Single: 3:18
> Ao5: 3:45
> ...



Wow, going from strength to strength :tu



muchacho said:


> Lovely mug! (sorry if it had appeared multiple times, it's the first time I see it)



Yes picked it up in a gift shop lat month 



MarcelP said:


> The cubicle T-shirt must have helped too  Nice solves Chris!



Agreed, think the tshirt is worth at least an additional 0.5 seconds


----------



## h2f (Mar 19, 2016)

Nice Chris. I got just few minutes ago 1:02.53 single on cam.


----------



## mafergut (Mar 19, 2016)

Wow! Starting to see quite some sub-1 at 4x4 around here. It looks so unreachable for me right now... Is that the CB G4 stickerless then? And is it already broken in? I was told it takes a while until it's good but you seem to have no problems whatsoever.

@David: Nice times at Mega, you are so close to sub-4. I think we are motivating each other to improve. I like that.

Have to do some solves for the weekly comp. I'll be back in a minute


----------



## muchacho (Mar 19, 2016)

I'll take a break when I reach sub-4, not from Megaminx but from racing, I'll just do untimed slow solves for some weeks to practice pairing, and I'll also try to learn some algs and mod a Shengshou.


----------



## h2f (Mar 19, 2016)




----------



## Selkie (Mar 19, 2016)

mafergut said:


> Is that the CB G4 stickerless then? And is it already broken in? I was told it takes a while until it's good but you seem to have no problems whatsoever.



To be fair though the cube is only a few days old I have done about 250 solves on it already. I absolutely love it and it gets better and better each solve, a fantastic cube, can't recommend it enough.



h2f said:


> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v6-IIuAgrLM



Lovely solve and so few pauses Grzegorz :tu

EDIT: Grzegorz, what was the name of your camera again, I need to order one for comp and I cannot find the post, sorry


----------



## Shaky Hands (Mar 19, 2016)

Selkie said:


> 52.2 4x4 PB - LL was just OLL parity! - On a Cyclone Boys G4 Stickerless and I said I couldnt solve on stickerless, its growing on me



Mine has now arrived and today I went on from equalising my PB (2:03.xx) then onto getting a new PB, breaking the 2-minute barrier for the first time with a 1:59.68. Very impressed by this cube, seems to work for me better overall than the Aosu and is probably an insta-main. Sometimes the Cyclone gets caught on an inner-M slice in ways my Aosu doesn't, but it may just need more breaking in.



mark49152 said:


> For anyone interested, here's my MBLD from Manchester Open 2016. Sorry for the glum reaction - I was just mentally tired and glad to get the blindfold off .
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=63t_X7-fIOQ



Thanks for sharing. This was good to relive. And once again, well done.


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## Selkie (Mar 19, 2016)

Shaky Hands said:


> Mine has now arrived and today I went on from equalising my PB (2:03.xx) then onto getting a new PB, breaking the 2-minute barrier for the first time with a 1:59.68. Very impressed by this cube, seems to work for me better overall than the Aosu and is probably an insta-main. Sometimes the Cyclone gets caught on an inner-M slice in ways my Aosu doesn't, but it may just need more breaking in.



Pleased it has had a similar impact on you. Congratulations on the PBs Andy 

---------

Another unboxing of a few cubes from UK Cube Store for those interested. Apologies for the video spam today  ... And apologies I cant review a Pyraminx 

QiYi Square-1 Stickerless
QiYi Pyraminx Stickerless
MoYu Tanglong Black
MoYu AoFu Cubic 7x7 Black
MoYu GuanSu 4x4 White


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## mafergut (Mar 19, 2016)

muchacho said:


> I'll take a break when I reach sub-4, not from Megaminx but from racing, I'll just do untimed slow solves for some weeks to practice pairing, and I'll also try to learn some algs and mod a Shengshou.



Well, yeah, maybe I should do the same and stop for a bit to learn a proper set of algs for LL 
Regarding modding I'm just too lazy but I know I should do it.


----------



## sqAree (Mar 19, 2016)

mafergut said:


> Well, yeah, maybe I should do the same and stop for a bit to learn a proper set of algs for LL
> Regarding modding I'm just too lazy but I know I should do it.



This describes exactly my current state of Megaminx.
I use a YuHu and ordered a ShengShou to have a better one after modding and finally I was too lazy so keep using the YuHu.
I still use the beginner method for LL (with sune spam etc.).
Although I'm at low 3min now after learning Westlunds S2L method.


----------



## mark49152 (Mar 20, 2016)

Awesome 4x4 progress Chris & Grzegorz, thanks for posting! Nice reaction Grzegorz 



h2f said:


> I do R U R' U' seutp and when I do parity r2 U2 r2 Uw2 r2 Uw2 U2 I dont do last U2 but only U' R U R'.


I tried this out this evening and actually prefer the inverse - so R U R' U setup and U R U' R' undo. I push the second U with left index while adjusting right hand for the slice.



Jason Green said:


> Amazing. I want to do something amazing some day.


Dude you're doing something amazing every day you pick up a cube


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## h2f (Mar 20, 2016)

@ Mark, @Chris - I was very surprised - I got flew and I thought it was much longer. 

I remember about 6bld race - finally I did 5bld in sub 20:00 - 19:58. I got it on cam. Execution was around 8 minutes.


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## mark49152 (Mar 20, 2016)

h2f said:


> I remember about 6bld race - finally I did 5bld in sub 20:00 - 19:58. I got it on cam. Execution was around 8 minutes.


Awesome, upload please! 

I'm still struggling with 4BLD and am going to focus on that until reliably sub-8. 5BLD takes me way too long. 6BLD is just a dream. This video is funny: https://youtu.be/yPZoIrUWsrQ


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## h2f (Mar 20, 2016)

I will upload but I guess not before tuesday - my internet connection is to slow (1.7 GB movie).


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## bubbagrub (Mar 20, 2016)

Hello fellow oldies,

I've been lurking but not posting much on this thread for the past few months. Mainly this has been because I have been single-mindedly focused on FMC. I wanted to do well in the FMC Europe comp a couple of weeks ago. Unfortunately, I had a total melt-down and got 3 DNFs... :-( 

Anyway, I"ll be coming to the first day of the North London comp, so I'm going to focus practice on the events that are on that day (feet, mega, pyra, 2x2, 3bld, 4x4 and 5x5). I see a few of you have been practising megaminx... I've not done a timed solve in over a year, I think, but I'll do some soon and will post my times. Anyone else into feet? I quite enjoyed doing it last year, although I found the stackmat rumpled up and got in the way. The other thing I'd really like to manage is a 3bld average, although I have a feeling that might be out of reach at the moment...


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## bubbagrub (Mar 20, 2016)

OK -- here's my first Ao5 for Mega:

5:38.02
5:47.73
5:32.40
5:09.53
4:06.14

I got lucky on the 5th one (easy EO case and EP skip)


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## muchacho (Mar 20, 2016)

bubbagrub said:


> OK -- here's my first Ao5 for Mega:
> 
> 5:38.02
> 5:47.73
> ...



Nice to see more Megaminx solvers in this thread! 


Ao5 PB on 2x2... I was not expecting it, I've done only 135 solves in last 30 days, but it happened, twice, previous PB (5.997) was set on December 3rd, today I first did a 5.922 and a few solves later 5.784. One of the scrambles had a layer already built  ...I could have used CMLL, I tried later and got a 3.863.

5. 6.768 R U' R2 U' R U2 F2 R' U
4. 6.057 U R U2 F2 U' R2 U R
3. 5.888 R' F2 R' U R F2 R U R2 U'
2. 4.856 U' F' U2 F' U' R2 F U R'
1. 5.407 F2 U' R F' R2 U' F2 U2 R'


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## muchacho (Mar 20, 2016)

Finally, megaminx ao12 under 4 minutes...

Ao12 PB: 3:46.847

12. 3:27.039	
3:35.675
(DNF)
4:25.519
3:47.202
3:51.130
3:48.161
3:37.260
3:46.609
3:29.372
3:49.739
1. 3:37.811

Also ao5 PB (first 5 solves): 3:40.560


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## h2f (Mar 20, 2016)

Nice David. On cam?


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## Shaky Hands (Mar 20, 2016)

bubbagrub said:


> Anyone else into feet?



There's other websites for that! 

Seriously, I think I'd have to change my username if I attempted that event.

Look forward to seeing you at the North London event.

Cheers.


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## mafergut (Mar 20, 2016)

Very nice, David. Better than mine. Today I have done another 5 solves but nothing great, to be honest. If I try to push a bit to go faster I lock up a lot and end up with worse times. I will have to consider either modding my SS or buying a Dayan.


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## muchacho (Mar 20, 2016)

h2f said:


> Nice David. On cam?





mafergut said:


> Very nice, David. Better than mine. Today I have done another 5 solves but nothing great, to be honest. If I try to push a bit to go faster I lock up a lot and end up with worse times. I will have to consider either modding my SS or buying a Dayan.



Thanks. Not in cam, I'll try to record some solves once I am good at pairing and have the Shengsou modded and broken in... so in three-six months


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## EvilGnome6 (Mar 21, 2016)

Here's a nice video from one of the competitors at AZCubing Winter 2016. I think they captured the venue and atmosphere of the event really well.


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## MarcelP (Mar 21, 2016)

EvilGnome6 said:


> Here's a nice video from one of the competitors at AZCubing Winter 2016. I think they captured the venue and atmosphere of the event really well.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1_EF7oLSNsA



Really nice. Awesome venue with the fancy tables and all.  Also plenty of room


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## mafergut (Mar 21, 2016)

EvilGnome6 said:


> Here's a nice video from one of the competitors at AZCubing Winter 2016. I think they captured the venue and atmosphere of the event really well.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1_EF7oLSNsA



Yeah, so nice!!! The guy made a good work with the video as well. I liked the final part with the 3x3 relay race


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## Selkie (Mar 21, 2016)

bubbagrub said:


> Anyone else into feet? I quite enjoyed doing it last year, although I found the stackmat rumpled up and got in the way. The other thing I'd really like to manage is a 3bld average, although I have a feeling that might be out of reach at the moment...



I tried a few years ago and failed. Might give it another go 



muchacho said:


> Ao5 PB on 2x2... I was not expecting it, I've done only 135 solves in last 30 days, but it happened, twice, previous PB (5.997) was set on December 3rd, today I first did a 5.922 and a few solves later 5.784. One of the scrambles had a layer already built  ...I could have used CMLL, I tried later and got a 3.863.
> 
> 5. 6.768 R U' R2 U' R U2 F2 R' U
> 4. 6.057 U R U2 F2 U' R2 U R
> ...





muchacho said:


> Finally, megaminx ao12 under 4 minutes...
> 
> Ao12 PB: 3:46.847
> 
> ...



A couple of lovely averages there 



EvilGnome6 said:


> Here's a nice video from one of the competitors at AZCubing Winter 2016. I think they captured the venue and atmosphere of the event really well.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1_EF7oLSNsA



Great video, love the signs on the comp tables "Don't Flash Me Bro" 

@Megaminx Race

Beginning to get closer to old times from a few years ago. Just did this Ao5 for WC...

5:02.44, 3:54.64, 4:53.85, 4:35.44, 5:21.85 = 4:50.58

@4x4 Race

4 more sub 55 singles and a sub 1:05.50 Ao12 yesterday - Sorry none of film


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## mafergut (Mar 21, 2016)

Selkie said:


> @Megaminx Race
> Beginning to get closer to old times from a few years ago. Just did this Ao5 for WC...
> 
> 5:02.44, 3:54.64, 4:53.85, 4:35.44, 5:21.85 = 4:50.58
> ...



Already some sub-4 in there. You're catching up and I'm sure *I'll* be trying to catch *you* in a week or so 
Also trying to get into 4x4 race myself. Did like 20 solves yesterday and I'm starting to get more solves in the 1:4x - low 1:5x range and almost no sup-2s. Still a long way to go to get to sub 1:30 territory. Around 1min will still take some years, I guess


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## Lid (Mar 21, 2016)

Good start to the day/week: Square-1 PB avg 5: *16.387* 
Avg 12 ended up a bit short thou, 18.077

Average of 5: 16.387
1. 15.800[p] (1, 6) / (3, -3) / (-1, -4) / (6, 0) / (-2, -5) / (0, -1) / (0, -3) / (3, 0) / (4, 0) / (-1, -2) / (4, 0) /
2. (14.457[p]) (0, 5) / (3, 0) / (-5, -2) / (3, -1) / (3, 0) / (-3, 0) / (5, -5) / (-4, 0) / (-5, -2) / (2, 0) / (4, 0) / (-2, -4)
3. (18.510) (1, 3) / (-3, 0) / (-1, -4) / (-5, -2) / (3, -1) / (0, -3) / (-3, 0) / (0, -2) / (5, -2) / (0, -2) / (5, 0) /
4. 16.428 (0, -1) / (-2, 1) / (-1, -1) / (0, -3) / (3, -3) / (6, -2) / (-3, -3) / (0, -1) / (-4, 0) / (2, -2)
5. 16.933 (3, 2) / (3, 0) / (0, -3) / (3, 0) / (-5, -2) / (-3, 0) / (0, -1) / (-3, -3) / (-5, 0) / (-2, 0) / (-2, 0) / (-4, 0) / (-2, 0) / (5, 0)


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## Selkie (Mar 21, 2016)

mafergut said:


> Already some sub-4 in there. You're catching up and I'm sure *I'll* be trying to catch *you* in a week or so
> Also trying to get into 4x4 race myself. Did like 20 solves yesterday and I'm starting to get more solves in the 1:4x - low 1:5x range and almost no sup-2s. Still a long way to go to get to sub 1:30 territory. Around 1min will still take some years, I guess



To be fair I won't concentrate too much on Megaminx, the average cut in UK is 2:30 which seems so far away from my ability. I also am not keen on my MF8 puzzle and whilst I have looked at replacement I will then have to also learn a new colour scheme. I will try the WC plus another average or two each week though and you never know 



Lid said:


> Good start to the day/week: Square-1 PB avg 5: *16.387*
> Avg 12 ended up a bit short thou, 18.077



Wow just awesome times!

@4x4 Race 

New PB Ao5...

Average of 5: 1:02.97
1. 1:00.65 f D' U f r B2 D U2 r' R' u2 L2 B2 F2 u R2 F f2 D2 R2 D U2 R2 U2 D' F U u f2 u R D' f R2 u' U R2 F2 D2 f' 
2. (1:17.45) L' B2 U2 u B D2 R' u' L B2 u' B2 U2 B' D' R2 B' u2 R' F' r' F u' B2 F' f R2 U' D' f' R' U r2 R2 D' u' U' f2 U' F 
3. 1:08.60 U r2 f' B2 U R2 B R' B' u' B2 L' D F R2 f r B r L D F2 u D B' u2 L2 f' r' U B' f2 F' U f D2 u2 R2 L D' 
4. (55.57) u2 B F2 U' F' R2 f' F2 U' r' F' u f2 B2 R' L2 U' R' f R u' F2 B2 r2 U2 u' F2 B2 R u2 r u' B' L F L' r' u R2 U' 
5. 59.66 F f' L' f' B2 F' u2 D' r' f2 B' r' B2 U r' f R F B2 r2 R2 L' f' r' U R' f U L' R' F f u F2 U2 r L2 F2 f2 L2


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## Selkie (Mar 21, 2016)

Just ordered this action camera (plus a load of accessories) ready for Exeter Open in ... wow under 2 weeks:-

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B0182429GS/ref=ox_sc_act_title_5?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A2MN3WW74QUWF0


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## muchacho (Mar 21, 2016)

Selkie said:


> I also am not keen on my MF8 puzzle and whilst I have looked at replacement I will then have to also learn a new colour scheme.


MF8 with tiles? are this (http://www.championscubestore.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=57&products_id=1133) the same colours? Could you glue those tiles to a new megaminx?


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## Selkie (Mar 21, 2016)

muchacho said:


> MF8 with tiles? are this (http://www.championscubestore.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=57&products_id=1133) the same colours? Could you glue those tiles to a new megaminx?



Actually they are the right colours. Presumably I could stick those to just about any megaminx, not just MF8?


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## muchacho (Mar 21, 2016)

I hope, that was my plan, glue those tiles to a Shengshou (unless colors are not good enough or are a bit small).


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## Logiqx (Mar 21, 2016)

EvilGnome6 said:


> Here's a nice video from one of the competitors at AZCubing Winter 2016. I think they captured the venue and atmosphere of the event really well.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1_EF7oLSNsA


Nice video and great looking competition. I wanna have a go at a relay next comp I attend. 

Sent from my GT-I9305 using Tapatalk


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## Logiqx (Mar 21, 2016)

Nice timed session towards the end of my commute today. 18 solves with a session average of 17.4. 

Sent from my GT-I9305 using Tapatalk


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## Selkie (Mar 21, 2016)

muchacho said:


> I hope, that was my plan, glue those tiles to a Shengshou (unless colors are not good enough or are a bit small).



Let me know how you get on David. I think I will go for those tiles and an SS if it works for you 



Logiqx said:


> Nice timed session towards the end of my commute today. 18 solves with a session average of 17.4.



Very nice Michael. What is your global average now?


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## Logiqx (Mar 21, 2016)

Selkie said:


> Very nice Michael. What is your global average now?



Hmmm. I'm not completely sure since I only really do a timed session once a week.

Counting back through the last 1000 solves (6 weeks) it's an average of 18.3 but I'm faster than I was 6 weeks ago.

Yesterday I did 150 timed solves with an average of 17.9 (mindless, poor lookahead) and this morning I was on schedule for sub-17 session average.

I'd say sub-18 is fairly representative. I get annoyed at sup-18 solves nowadays, lol.

p.s. The variety in this thread is pretty inspiring but right now my focus is 3x3!


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## Selkie (Mar 21, 2016)

Logiqx said:


> I'd say sub-18 is fairly representative. I get annoyed at sup-18 solves nowadays, lol.
> 
> p.s. The variety in this thread is pretty inspiring but right now my focus is 3x3!



You are doing really well then. Planning to make any comps this year?

Haha yes the variety in this thread has me enjoying other events and not practicing 3x3 enough


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## mafergut (Mar 21, 2016)

Selkie said:


> You are doing really well then. Planning to make any comps this year?
> 
> Haha yes the variety in this thread has me enjoying other events and not practicing 3x3 enough



I asked for advice some months ago regarding my lack of progress at 3x3 and somebody told me that, at our age (he was not a youngster either but probably a bit younger than I am) we have to assume that, if we want to be somewhat good at 3x3 we have to forget about practising anything else. It was good advice and I respect everyones opinion but I realized that I enjoyed more practising varied events and trying new things and puzzles than embarking on a quest for my best possible performance at 3x3. Even if I did that, I could maybe become barely sub-15? Close to 12-14 sec average? Nothing compared with world top class. So, was it so important for me to be those few seconds faster at 3x3 and remain oblivious to big cubes, pyra, mega, skewb... My conclusion was, no way, even if than means I'll never be better than barely sub-20 at 3x3.

Yes, this is my new and longish excuse to my lack of progress at 3x3  Just kidding. Instead of improving a second at 3x3 I have improved like 3 minutes at Mega, more than one minute at 4x4, more than four minutes at 5x5... learned some basic pyra, skewb and sq-1, even had some peek at BLD. I'd give another 3x3 second to improve another minute at 4x4  and the rest.


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## Selkie (Mar 21, 2016)

mafergut said:


> I asked for advice some months ago regarding my lack of progress at 3x3 and somebody told me that, at our age (he was not a youngster either but probably a bit younger than I am) we have to assume that, if we want to be somewhat good at 3x3 we have to forget about practising anything else......



I completely agree and when I was a very active cuber a number of years ago I loved trying as many events as possible. During the years where I was not as active I always did 3x3 and its nice to get back to being as active and solving as many puzzles as I can. Just need to tackle my nemesis that is BLD for a full compliment 

------------

Talking of non 3x3, managed another 4x4 average Personal Best (second today) and this time on film. Strangely, though this is a sub 1:03 average it has no sub 1's in it. Whats the chances of that!?






Average of 5: 1:02.78
1. 1:02.03 B' R U2 r2 F2 U2 u' R2 r f2 U' D2 F B' D2 F B2 r2 U' r2 f2 U f B2 r' L2 R U u2 f B' u2 F2 R r F' B f' U2 D' 
2. (1:00.48) R D' r f2 L r' F r L2 F' f2 u2 r F2 B2 R U u f' B' r2 D B u' f2 r' u' r f' U' u2 r2 F f2 u' B2 u' D' f2 R2 
3. (1:10.90) r2 R2 B D2 F f2 R' r2 f R L' r f' U' L B2 L2 u2 D' R2 F2 D2 U2 r2 u2 U' r2 B' R2 r L' f D' F r2 f' u' f2 F2 R' 
4. 1:05.32 f F U2 r' U f u f U f' F U u F2 f' r R' F r2 f F2 u' R2 D2 L f' D2 B u F U2 R2 D2 f2 F B' D' u' L' F2 
5. 1:00.98 f r D2 U2 F2 f2 L' R U' L' B2 L2 F' U2 B2 F2 U' L2 u L' B2 F2 f' u2 r2 D R' L u2 L' R2 F2 L2 U u B r B' f2 u2


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## h2f (Mar 21, 2016)

Nice solves, Chris. I think I need break from bld events and I do some 3x3 and 4x4 practice.


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## mafergut (Mar 21, 2016)

I want to get there, Chris. Very nice solves.
Regarding your PB Average without sub 1min solves that's called consistency 
Talking about low standard deviation averages, my best one on record (for 3x3) is from 1 year ago and goes like this:

(19.24), (18.42), 18.78, 18.68, 18.72

The 3 counting solves, all within 0.1 of a sec, give a 0.05 stdev 
The 2 discarded solves are not that far off either.


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## Logiqx (Mar 21, 2016)

Selkie said:


> You are doing really well then. Planning to make any comps this year?
> 
> Haha yes the variety in this thread has me enjoying other events and not practicing 3x3 enough



Thanks Chris. These last couple of months I feel like I've improved more rapidly than I have in a long time. Progress at the bottom of this post!

Yes... I want to do some competitions this year. The ones announced so far have all clashed with other commitments so I'm waiting for more dates to be announced.

Regarding other events, I sometimes do 5x5 on the train (untimed but I feel like I'm improving) and in the past week, I did my first 2x2 + pyra sessions since Oct/Nov.

I PB'd in Pyra Ao5/Ao12 and 2x2 Ao50/Ao100. I think Pyra improvement was because it is essentially 3x3 variations for the first layer and 2x2 was because I was trying to predict OLL... perhaps 1 solve in 3.

I seem on form with the 3x3 today... first leg of the train journey home, I did a 17.369 Ao30.



Spoiler



Title: 3x3x3 Cube
Scrambler: 3x3x3 Simple
Session: 192
# of solving: 30
# of penalty: 0
# of DNF: 0
Std Dev: 1.307
Best of all: 13.295
Worst of all: 22.465
Average of all: 17.369
Best Avg of 5: 16.188
Best Avg of 12: 16.747
Best Avg of 25: 17.265
Avg of Inspection: 45.871
---- Generated by KingEn Timer v3.3

Solving times (reverse order): 17.734 16.018 19.103 17.199 18.297 17.599 18.716 18.214 16.944 14.868 22.465 17.695 13.829 17.101 18.697 16.523 18.480 14.668 18.494 19.354 15.404 13.295 16.838 17.437 19.662 20.024 15.919 16.995 16.129 17.522



Edit... just looked at my session averages over the past year:

Apr 2015: 21.2
May 2015: 20.3
Jun 2015: 20.3
Jul 2015: 20.0
Aug 2015: 20.2
Sep 2015:20.0
Oct 2015: 19.6
Nov 2015: 19.7
Dec 2015: 19.9
*Jan 2016: 19.3
Feb 2016: 18.6
Mar 2016: 17.8 (3 weeks worth)*


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## newtonbase (Mar 21, 2016)

I'm on day 2 of my 3 days of 3x3 focused practice and so far have done less than 25 timed solves in total. Undisturbed free time is scarce and after my son only let me have 2.5 hours sleep last night I spent my lunch break sleeping in my car. The wife is away until late tomorrow so it won't get better. One thing I can do is practice letter pair memo while pacing the kids' bedroom. 
My Guanpo arrived today so I had a quick play while making tea. It's quick but clunky. Cutting isn't great and it popped for no obvious reason. I almost never pop cubes. Time to break in my new Moyu screwdrivers.


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## kbrune (Mar 21, 2016)

@logigx

Nice progress! I've been stuck at 20.5-21.5 for a long time now. How is it you're able to see previous sessions? You're saving them in a spreadsheet or your program keeps them?

@newtonbase

I feel your pain. Been there when it comes to having zero time to practice.


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## Logiqx (Mar 21, 2016)

kbrune said:


> @logigx
> Nice progress! I've been stuck at 20.5-21.5 for a long time now. How is it you're able to see previous sessions? You're saving them in a spreadsheet or your program keeps them?



I keep a spreadsheet. I knew I'd been hovering around the 20s mark for a long time but I didn't realise it lasted for 8 months!

Finally shaken that monkey off my back!


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## mafergut (Mar 21, 2016)

Logiqx said:


> just looked at my session averages over the past year:
> 
> Apr 2015: 21.2
> May 2015: 20.3
> ...



Wow! Your improvement rate is increasing in the last few months. In the last year I have come from approx. 21.50 Ao100 to around 19.50 but I'm quite stuck lately.


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## Selkie (Mar 22, 2016)

Logiqx said:


> Thanks Chris. These last couple of months I feel like I've improved more rapidly than I have in a long time. Progress at the bottom of this post!
> 
> Yes... I want to do some competitions this year. The ones announced so far have all clashed with other commitments so I'm waiting for more dates to be announced.
> 
> ...



Wow, way to get off a plateau. Really really nice. You'll catch me up soon  I plan on making at least 4 comps this year so hopefully theer will be one where we both attend 



newtonbase said:


> I'm on day 2 of my 3 days of 3x3 focused practice and so far have done less than 25 timed solves in total. Undisturbed free time is scarce and after my son only let me have 2.5 hours sleep last night I spent my lunch break sleeping in my car.



Ouch I remember how that feels, though many years ago for me. Hope you get your sleep back quickly together with your practice


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## Logiqx (Mar 22, 2016)

mafergut said:


> Wow! Your improvement rate is increasing in the last few months. In the last year I have come from approx. 21.50 Ao100 to around 19.50 but I'm quite stuck lately.


Last 3 months is when i started my new commute. Last 2 months my choice of trains has been to be optimise practice schedule!

I've chosen to lengthen my journey by 10 mins to gain 30 mins of practice. I get about 60 mins in the morning and the same in the evening now.

Cubing is definitely more enjoyable than staring into space or browsing facebook!

Sent from my GT-I9305 using Tapatalk


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## Logiqx (Mar 22, 2016)

Selkie said:


> Wow, way to get off a plateau. Really really nice. You'll catch me up soon  I plan on making at least 4 comps this year so hopefully theer will be one where we both attend
> 
> 
> 
> Ouch I remember how that feels, though many years ago for me. Hope you get your sleep back quickly together with your practice


My thoughts exactly. There is hope for anyone stuck on a plateau!

It'll take me a while to catch you but we have the same goal of sub-15 global. I'm also conscious that Jason is charging towards us as well!

Sent from my GT-I9305 using Tapatalk


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## Selkie (Mar 22, 2016)

Logiqx said:


> I'm also conscious that Jason is charging towards us as well!



He is indeed as with others on the thread. Some great progression recently.

Well I have decided to mix practice up a bit on 3x3 today with only a 1 1/2 weeks till Exeter Open. Aim of the day in breaks from work is to see how many different cubes I can get filmed sub 15 3x3 averages on today. Here goes


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## h2f (Mar 22, 2016)

My last 5bld solve 19:58.


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## MarcelP (Mar 22, 2016)

h2f said:


> My last 5bld solve 19:58.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=maQRD7R1Jdk



You said you where going to focus on 3x3 and 4x4? I was expecting a sub 20 average on video  LOL


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## mafergut (Mar 22, 2016)

Mindblowing, Grzegorz! Do you recommend to create a letter pair vs word list? I'm having lots of problems with memo because I can't find suitable words on the spot for lots of Speffz letter combinations, so memo takes a lot of time and I tend to forget it.


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## h2f (Mar 22, 2016)

Im glad you like it. 



MarcelP said:


> You said you where going to focus on 3x3 and 4x4? I was expecting a sub 20 average on video  LOL



Now I can back to 3x3. 



mafergut said:


> Mindblowing, Grzegorz! Do you recommend to create a letter pair vs word list? I'm having lots of problems with memo because I can't find suitable words on the spot for lots of Speffz letter combinations, so memo takes a lot of time and I tend to forget it.



I have list of words but I dont use it. I've made so many memos that a lot of my words are always the same. There are few cases in Polish that its hard to create word. In these cases I always try to use the same special word which I've tried to figure out earlier. (And I still do). I think doing list of words is a very creative thing which might help. 

My memos in big cubes are alwyas done with 4 words in one location and all locations for wings or x centers are around same place. I do only letter pairs for corners.


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## kbrune (Mar 22, 2016)

Yep I'm Givin up on yau! I did an ao25 yesterday and had a 1:56.49 average. I was frustrated with this so i did another ao25 with my original method and I got 1:38.36 with a 1:11.94 single. I'm not seeing enough improvement to warrant switching yet. 

I may experiment with using M slice to hunt for my cross edges instead of S slice though. I like the vision yau offers but I find I can't process info quick enough. Recog and process speed are my limiting factors in cubing. 

Good job in WC last week guys!


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## Jason Green (Mar 22, 2016)

mafergut said:


> I asked for advice some months ago regarding my lack of progress at 3x3 and somebody told me that, at our age (he was not a youngster either but probably a bit younger than I am) we have to assume that, if we want to be somewhat good at 3x3 we have to forget about practising anything else. ... I could maybe become barely sub-15? Close to 12-14 sec average? ...



That's kind of my excuse too.  Now that you guys have sucked me into wanting to practice 4x4 and 5x5 I'm not spending every minute on 3x3. I did not think I would do this until I was at LEAST sub 20, but I am because they are fun! I would still love to be barely sub 15 some day. 



Logiqx said:


> Apr 2015: 21.2
> May 2015: 20.3
> Jun 2015: 20.3
> Jul 2015: 20.0
> ...





Logiqx said:


> I'm also conscious that Jason is charging towards us as well!



I think I was charging for a while, but I'm not sure that term is representative at the moment. These times are fun to see, I am probably still around 23 secs globally. More like 21-22 if I am rested and sharp when cubing, which most of my evening practice is really not. So although another year seems like a long time to be sub 20, at the same time I will be happy if I can make it by then.


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## Selkie (Mar 22, 2016)

h2f said:


> My last 5bld solve 19:58.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=maQRD7R1Jdk



Haha awesome solve Grzegorz 

--------------------

Got my new Tec.Bean EX5000 Camera today. What do you guys think for this camera angle for my future solves or should I tripod mount it?






I have spotted the time and date is wrong, still haven't finished setting it up.


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## mafergut (Mar 22, 2016)

Selkie said:


> Haha awesome solve Grzegorz
> 
> --------------------
> 
> ...



Video quality is very nice. Regarding the camera angle it has its pros and cons. It's the same "head mount" angle I use and it clearly gives a much better view of the puzzle while solving but it is dizziness inducing at times when I move my head too much, like when trying to spot some sticker on the side, etc. The only thing I'm missing is the sound.


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## muchacho (Mar 22, 2016)

I try not to move my head much when filming that way, but it's harder than it looks.

@Logiqx Really nice improvement, congrats!


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## h2f (Mar 22, 2016)

@Chris

As muchacho wrote - it has pros and kons. I dont like to have anything on my head thats why I put my camera on laptop.


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## mafergut (Mar 22, 2016)

Finally starting to improve a bit on 5x5 after like 30 timed solves in the last month (basically the weekly comp and not much else). Got PB 4:11.xx, closer to what I could start considering decent times.

I'm starting to not like my CB 5x5 that much or maybe it's just my crappy turning style but I spend probably a minute of those 4-5 minutes aligning layers in order to turn it. The cube is very smooth and, when properly aligned, turns quite fine but the outer layers have much less friction than the inner ones so it misaligns quite easily. Do you think it would be worth it to get a Yuxin or BoChuang?

@Grzegorz: Yeah, I have also thought about trying your camera angle but I'm not particularly fond of getting myself on camera and it's a bit weird as you watch the solve from the opposite side so it's more difficult to know what's going on than with a headcam approach. Anyway, with a good camera, probably the best approach is a tripod with an "over the shoulder" angle (a bit higher than the cube with camera tilted down a bit). I'm just too lazy to get my photo/video camera and tripod out so I just stick my crappy webcam with an elastic band to my head and I'm recording in 3, 2, 1...  It's quite light so it's not an annoyance unless I record for a long time, then I start sweating on my forehead.


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## MarcelP (Mar 22, 2016)

Selkie said:


> Got my new Tec.Bean EX5000 Camera today. What do you guys think for this camera angle for my future solves or should I tripod mount it?



Nice sup 1 solve  Angle is perfect. I can clearly follow what you are doing. Although I am CN I could not do 4x4 on blue cross like you.


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## h2f (Mar 22, 2016)

Yeah, the angle allows one to follow the solve. How long is able your camera to work without charging?


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## Selkie (Mar 22, 2016)

Thanks for the feedback guys. Yes indeed in this solve I did keep my head still but agree it can be odd when I look around. I bought quite a few accessories so perhaps I should try the chest mount tomorrow. The one thing I didn't get was a desktop tripod so need to order one of these for Exeter Open as my wife who usually films me will be shopping 

Not sure on the length between charges Grzegorz. The camera says about an hour and half but the camera came with two batteries and I bought another additional one to make three and a charger. Also bought a couple of starter accessory kits so have more different attachments than I know what to do with. I also bought 2 x 32Gb card so should be plenty even for a full 2 day comp.


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## Logiqx (Mar 22, 2016)

Just watched the latest videos.

Very impressed by the 5BLD and nice to see a sub-60 on the 4x4.


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## h2f (Mar 22, 2016)

@Thanks.

@Logiqx - I wonder what kind of practice did you do to make such a nice progress?


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## Logiqx (Mar 23, 2016)

h2f said:


> @Thanks.
> 
> @Logiqx - I wonder what kind of practice did you do to make such a nice progress?


I'll answer that later today when I'm at a keyboard. 

Sent from my GT-I9305 using Tapatalk


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## h2f (Mar 23, 2016)

That's promising because it'll be more than: practice!


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## Logiqx (Mar 23, 2016)

h2f said:


> That's promising because it'll be more than: practice!


A bit of that combined with zeroing. 

Sent from my GT-I9305 using Tapatalk


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## mark49152 (Mar 23, 2016)

That angle works well, Chris. I might give that a go for speed solves. For BLD, I prefer Grzegorz's angle because seeing the person wrestling with the cube is part of the fun .

Nice 5BLD, Grzegorz! Great to bring it in just under the 20 minutes, that must be very satisfying .

Mike, great to see your 3x3 progress too. I find it increasingly hard to keep heart with 3x3 when on a plateau for months, so kudos to you for sticking it out.


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## h2f (Mar 23, 2016)

Thank you, Mark. Yes it's very satisfying.


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## Lid (Mar 23, 2016)

12 random megaminx solves while breaking in my Dayan:
1:54.76, 2:03.68, 1:53.86, (1:53.40), 1:53.67, 2:03.49, 2:00.26, 2:05.74, 2:05.19, (2:07.64), 2:04.90, 2:05.80
= *2:01.14* (a5 1:54.10) (my Mefferts are still better & "faster").

Did a fast count of the mega PLLs I know & got 43 (of 151), which is basicly just all CP/EP(26), Tperms(3), Rperms(4), Ypermss(4) + 6 others. So if you know full n^3 PLL you are not far from this number.


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## mafergut (Mar 23, 2016)

Lid said:


> 12 random megaminx solves while breaking in my Dayan:
> 1:54.76, 2:03.68, 1:53.86, (1:53.40), 1:53.67, 2:03.49, 2:00.26, 2:05.74, 2:05.19, (2:07.64), 2:04.90, 2:05.80
> = *2:01.14* (a5 1:54.10) (my Mefferts are still better & "faster").
> 
> Did a fast count of the mega PLLs I know & got 43 (of 151), which is basicly just all CP/EP(26), Tperms(3), Rperms(4), Ypermss(4) + 6 others. So if you know full n^3 PLL you are not far from this number.



"Only" 43? I don't think I'll ever learn that many. My F2L & S2L is not fast enough that it will make a difference anyway. Please tell me how's your Dayan after breaking in, as it is an alternative to modding my SS. Do you have the ridged one? Stickered / stickerless? I was thinking about ridged & stickerless, I sweat just from thinking about changing the stickers to my SS if I ever need to do it.


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## mark49152 (Mar 23, 2016)

This thread moves so fast that I can't be bothered to search back for it, but someone recently mentioned letter pair lists, so here's my thoughts. 

Originally I did not want to make a list, as I felt that it would be easier to remember a memo that came naturally, taking multiple pairs together in context. So sometimes, different images would be used for the same pair, depending in context. That's especially the case if creating sentences.

However, my memo is still slow, and I do find that sometimes I am stuck for several seconds trying to find an image or word for a pair. So recently I did start putting together a list. My plan at first was to cover only the hard pairs that I struggle with, but I've broadened it and am also finding and capturing better images that are easier to remember than the ones that came to me more obviously, for easier pairs.

Not sure how it will pan out, but it's at least got me putting a lot more thought into image choice and consistent ways of deriving images, outside of the time pressure of a solve.


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## mafergut (Mar 23, 2016)

@Mark: Thanks for your advice. It was me who asked about this, I guess. Maybe not only me 

Regarding my 5x5 dilemma, I tried loosening my CB just a tiny bit (a quarter of a turn on each face) and I started to suffer the dreaded "5x5 lockups" while corner cutting did not improve at all so my times were worse and I had to tighten it back to where it was. Not sure if putting some lube on it will make any difference or I shouldn't even bother and just go get a Yuxin or Bochuang (I'm still undecided).


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## Selkie (Mar 23, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> This thread moves so fast that I can't be bothered to search back for it, but someone recently mentioned letter pair lists, so here's my thoughts.
> 
> Originally I did not want to make a list, as I felt that it would be easier to remember a memo that came naturally, taking multiple pairs together in context. So sometimes, different images would be used for the same pair, depending in context. That's especially the case if creating sentences.
> 
> ...



Be very interested if you could give me a demonstration of your memo at Exeter next week Mark?


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## earth2dan (Mar 23, 2016)

mafergut said:


> Regarding my 5x5 dilemma, I tried loosening my CB just a tiny bit (a quarter of a turn on each face) and I started to suffer the dreaded "5x5 lockups" while corner cutting did not improve at all so my times were worse and I had to tighten it back to where it was. Not sure if putting some lube on it will make any difference or I shouldn't even bother and just go get a Yuxin or Bochuang (I'm still undecided).



I have all 3. The Yuxin and Bochuang are both awesome and you might enjoy solving on them more as they are a little more forgiving with lockups. However, it's worth noting that my PB is still with my stickerless CB 5x5 so it's definitely up to the task.

I have the stickerless Yuxin. At first I didn't like its colours but I've decided it was just poor lighting. It's become my office 5x5 where I have good bright lighting and it's awesome. I have the black BoChuang at home and I still need to resticker and set it up the way I like it but even out of the box it feels great. I have a stickerless BoChuang on order, I'll follow up with my thoughts on it's colour scheme when it arrives.


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## mafergut (Mar 23, 2016)

earth2dan said:


> I have all 3. The Yuxin and Bochuang are both awesome and you might enjoy solving on them more as they are a little more forgiving with lockups. However, it's worth noting that my PB is still with my stickerless CB 5x5 so it's definitely up to the task.
> 
> I have the stickerless Yuxin. At first I didn't like its colours but I've decided it was just poor lighting. It's become my office 5x5 where I have good bright lighting and it's awesome. I have the black BoChuang at home and I still need to resticker and set it up the way I like it but even out of the box it feels great. I have a stickerless BoChuang on order, I'll follow up with my thoughts on it's colour scheme when it arrives.



Thanks a lot. I will have to buy both as I still cannot decide  Also Lightake only has the black and white Bochuangs, not the stickerless, at that attractive price they have this week, almost the same as the Yuxin. So maybe a stickerless Yuxin and a black BoChuang...? But my wife could think I'm crazy


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## Selkie (Mar 23, 2016)

mafergut said:


> @Mark: Thanks for your advice. It was me who asked about this, I guess. Maybe not only me
> 
> Regarding my 5x5 dilemma, I tried loosening my CB just a tiny bit (a quarter of a turn on each face) and I started to suffer the dreaded "5x5 lockups" while corner cutting did not improve at all so my times were worse and I had to tighten it back to where it was. Not sure if putting some lube on it will make any difference or I shouldn't even bother and just go get a Yuxin or Bochuang (I'm still undecided).



For me the Yuxin and afterwards the Bochuang are leaps and bounds above other 5x5s for me. I have not played with the tension on either but the Yuxin is fairly lose and I do have lockups. The Bochuang less so. I certainly think either is worth the investment and I am currently looking to get a stickerless bochuang to go with my new found love of all things stickerless 



Lid said:


> 12 random megaminx solves while breaking in my Dayan:
> 1:54.76, 2:03.68, 1:53.86, (1:53.40), 1:53.67, 2:03.49, 2:00.26, 2:05.74, 2:05.19, (2:07.64), 2:04.90, 2:05.80
> = *2:01.14* (a5 1:54.10) (my Mefferts are still better & "faster").
> 
> Did a fast count of the mega PLLs I know & got 43 (of 151), which is basicly just all CP/EP(26), Tperms(3), Rperms(4), Ypermss(4) + 6 others. So if you know full n^3 PLL you are not far from this number.



Thats it! Im ordering a Dayan with my stickerless bochuang


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## earth2dan (Mar 23, 2016)

mafergut said:


> Thanks a lot. I will have to buy both as I still cannot decide  Also Lightake only has the black and white Bochuangs, not the stickerless, at that attractive price they have this week, almost the same as the Yuxin. So maybe a stickerless Yuxin and a black BoChuang...? But my wife could think I'm crazy



Haha. My wife usually just laughs and shakes her head when more puzzles arrive, but she doesn't give me a hard time over it. If I need an addiction, she's content that it be cubing


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## Selkie (Mar 23, 2016)

earth2dan said:


> Haha. My wife usually just laughs and shakes her head when more puzzles arrive, but she doesn't give me a hard time over it. If I need an addiction, she's content that it be cubing



I am in the process of decorating the living room and my wife has just ordered and had delivered two new sofas so that gives me a little leeway with cube orders


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## mafergut (Mar 23, 2016)

Selkie said:


> For me the Yuxin and afterwards the Bochuang are leaps and bounds above other 5x5s for me. I have not played with the tension on either but the Yuxin is fairly lose and I do have lockups. The Bochuang less so. I certainly think either is worth the investment and I am currently looking to get a stickerless bochuang to go with my new found love of all things stickerless
> 
> Thats it! Im ordering a Dayan with my stickerless bochuang



Yeah, in some videos I have seen that the BoChuang has less of a problem with said lockups but it really looks like the Yuxing comes looser out of the box, and that could clearly be the reason.

Regarding the Dayan mega in stickerless I had the idea first, like one page ago  I would like to try the ridged one, as I sometimes have grip problems with my Shengshou.



earth2dan said:


> Haha. My wife usually just laughs and shakes her head when more puzzles arrive, but she doesn't give me a hard time over it. If I need an addiction, she's content that it be cubing



Yeah, that's what mine thinks as well, there are much worse addictions out there and at least I'm not fond of custom / handmade puzzles like Traiphum's which cost a lot. But, oh boy, this Ghost cube!!!! It's one of a kind (the Perubian guy that made it for TheMaoiSha will not make another, I asked). Isn't it beautiful?


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## earth2dan (Mar 23, 2016)

Selkie said:


> I am in the process of decorating the living room and my wife has just ordered and had delivered two new sofas so that gives me a little leeway with cube orders


Nice! Guilt free cube orders for a while 



mafergut said:


> Yeah, that's what mine thinks as well, there are much worse addictions out there and at least I'm not fond of custom / handmade puzzles like Traiphum's which cost a lot. But, oh boy, this Ghost cube!!!! It's one of a kind (the Perubian guy that made it for TheMaoiSha will not make another, I asked). Isn't it beautiful?


Wow, that ghost cube... There's a video on how he made it as well. No wonder he doesn't want to make another, that's a ton of work! I don't have any custom puzzles yet, just mass produced ones. Though, it's only a matter of time


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## mafergut (Mar 23, 2016)

earth2dan said:


> Wow, that ghost cube... There's a video on how he made it as well. No wonder he doesn't want to make another, that's a ton of work! I don't have any custom puzzles yet, just mass produced ones. Though, it's only a matter of time



Yeah, it's really awesome. If I had the manual ability, when I retire I already know what I'd like to do with my spare time. It's a pity that I don't have the ability


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## Jason Green (Mar 23, 2016)

I have my second comp in Dallas this weekend, I'm going to try to test a Yuxin 5x5 if I can! I really still don't think my SS is that bad, but I'm not trying to turn very fast anyway on 5x5. 

I showed my wife some of Chris's unboxings, so that gives me some leeway.  She doesn't mind really, I'm more the tight wad between us. 

Chris the camera angle was cool I think. It gives the feel that we are looking around the cube with you.


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## Shaky Hands (Mar 23, 2016)

Selkie said:


> Got my new Tec.Bean EX5000 Camera today. What do you guys think for this camera angle for my future solves or should I tripod mount it?



I liked it like this. Good POV.



mark49152 said:


> For BLD, I prefer Grzegorz's angle because seeing the person wrestling with the cube is part of the fun .



Totally agree with this.



Selkie said:


> I am in the process of decorating the living room and my wife has just ordered and had delivered two new sofas so that gives me a little leeway with cube orders



I just keep my mains for 2x2-5x5 & Clock in my living room. The rest (1 of 2x2, 13 of 3x3, 4 of 4x4, 2 of 5x5 and 1 of Clock plus some other stuff I might work out how to solve one day) are behind the bed.


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## Selkie (Mar 23, 2016)

mafergut said:


> Regarding the Dayan mega in stickerless I had the idea first, like one page ago  I would like to try the ridged one, as I sometimes have grip problems with my Shengshou.



Oh sorry so many posts I missed it. I have just ordered the stickerless one from Puzl.co.uk http://www.puzl.co.uk/dayan-megaminx-world-record-puzzle-stickerless-p-211.html#.VvLLz_mLShc. I figure if I am going to restart and forget my MF8 colour scheme, I might as well do it when I average 5 minutes!



earth2dan said:


> Nice! Guilt free cube orders for a while



Indeed though ironically I have most of what I want right now. Just a stickerless Bochuang and a stickerless X-Men Tornado would be good



Jason Green said:


> I have my second comp in Dallas this weekend, I'm going to try to test a Yuxin 5x5 if I can! I really still don't think my SS is that bad, but I'm not trying to turn very fast anyway on 5x5.
> 
> I showed my wife some of Chris's unboxings, so that gives me some leeway.  She doesn't mind really, I'm more the tight wad between us.
> 
> Chris the camera angle was cool I think. It gives the feel that we are looking around the cube with you.





Shaky Hands said:


> I liked it like this. Good POV.



Thanks. I did try the chest harness with the camera but it just gets in the way. Have also ordered a desktop mini tripod for comp which arrives tomorrow so I'll do some samples with that


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## Jason Green (Mar 23, 2016)

I could really not order cubes as quickly I think it might bother me to have so many cubes I want to give a chance.


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## Selkie (Mar 23, 2016)

@Jason

T-Shirt has arrived, sorry it isnt a great photo. The lettering isn't as dark on the t shirt as it seems in this picture but perhaps should have ordered a slightly lighter one. Will wear it one day to Exeter Open 2016 in a weeks time


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## Jason Green (Mar 23, 2016)

Mine came a couple days ago, I'll get to wear it Saturday at the comp. 







So new shirt, do you know the Right Said Fred song from the 90s I think, I'm Too Sexy? Should it be

I'm too
R U R' U'
For My Shirt

Or

R U R' U'
Too Sexy For This Shirt

Second one could have question mark or not ...


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## mark49152 (Mar 23, 2016)

Selkie said:


> Be very interested if you could give me a demonstration of your memo at Exeter next week Mark?


Try getting me to not talk about BLD


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## Lid (Mar 23, 2016)

Selkie said:


> Oh sorry so many posts I missed it. I have just ordered the stickerless one from Puzl.co.uk http://www.puzl.co.uk/dayan-megaminx-world-record-puzzle-stickerless-p-211.html#.VvLLz_mLShc. I figure if I am going to restart and forget my MF8 colour scheme, I might as well do it when I average 5 minutes!


The Dayan I have is a black non ridges with mf8 tiles, again hate stickers


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## mafergut (Mar 23, 2016)

Selkie said:


> Oh sorry so many posts I missed it. I have just ordered the stickerless one[...]. I figure if I am going to restart and forget my MF8 colour scheme, I might as well do it when I average 5 minutes!



No need to say sorry, I was just making a joke that we all seem to have ideas for new puzzles we want / need. Nice choice and you're right, you will get used to the new scheme quite soon, you'll see. As I'm not in a hurry I will wait some weeks just in case they put it on sale 

By the way, almost sub-3 single in the weekly comp scrambles (3:02.01). The rest was just meh.


----------



## h2f (Mar 23, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> This thread moves so fast that I can't be bothered to search back for it, but someone recently mentioned letter pair lists, so here's my thoughts.
> 
> Originally I did not want to make a list, as I felt that it would be easier to remember a memo that came naturally, taking multiple pairs together in context. So sometimes, different images would be used for the same pair, depending in context. That's especially the case if creating sentences.
> 
> ...



Thanks Mark. I think this is a very good advice for me. At the moment I'm doing my 3style list - mostly for edges, cause corners I've done long ago and I only have to change few algs. Edges seem much easier so far. I think I'll be able do 80% of edges with better 3cycles than advanced M2.

@Chris @Jason - great stuff!


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## kbrune (Mar 23, 2016)

Lol @ the wife on cube purchasing of the last few pages. 

Mine doesn't care too much either but then up until a month or two ago I only had 5 puzzles. Just bought 8 new ones recently though and I still need at least 4 puzzles to at least be able to compete in all official events. 

You guys are waaaay ahead of me in hardware knowledge. Half the convos are over my head and I know none of the brands lol I'm jealous!

@Jason
Good luck at comp! Looking forward to seeing how you did. 

@who ever mentioned letter pair memo. I'm in favor of having a list since creativity is a challenge for me. I'm practicing multi and I'd say at least 50% (I'm sure I'm being conservative) of my memo time is spent just searching for images to associate with a pair. I understand the idea of on the fly. But it's unrealistic for me. I feel like any pro who has very good times is working from a list that's already been created in one way or another. So I may as well compile one.


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## mafergut (Mar 23, 2016)

I forgot to say... Gentlemen, you look sooooo ready to rock & roll with those T-shirts! 
Good luck in your competitions.


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## Jason Green (Mar 23, 2016)

mafergut said:


> I forgot to say... Gentlemen, you look sooooo ready to rock & roll with those T-shirts!
> Good luck in your competitions.


Thanks!


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## Shaky Hands (Mar 23, 2016)

Jason Green said:


> So new shirt, do you know the Right Said Fred song from the 90s I think, I'm Too Sexy? Should it be
> 
> I'm too
> R U R' U'
> ...



I like the first one better. Clever idea.


----------



## Selkie (Mar 23, 2016)

mafergut said:


> By the way, almost sub-3 single in the weekly comp scrambles (3:02.01). The rest was just meh.



Awesome solve, average cut in UK is 2:30 and I thought that was outside my reach, this gives me motivation. Thanks :tu



h2f said:


> @Chris @Jason - great stuff!





mafergut said:


> I forgot to say... Gentlemen, you look sooooo ready to rock & roll with those T-shirts!
> Good luck in your competitions.



Thank you 



Jason Green said:


> Mine came a couple days ago, I'll get to wear it Saturday at the comp.
> 
> http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160323/3fd0bd0ac36472588bd0d12a8f8a5252.jpg
> 
> ...





-----------

Re my obsession with stickerless I got close to a pb ao12 on the GuoGuan YueXiao Stickerless yesterday that was not on film but here is a sub 15 ao5 I did get on film. I am so tempted to make it my main but I wonder if that is wise 1 week pre comp?!






@Marcel - The stickerless has no catching issues and I have no idea why as the tensions aren't different to the three stickered ones I have!


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## Jason Green (Mar 23, 2016)

Shaky Hands said:


> I like the first one better. Clever idea.


Thanks, we also then came up with a slightly longer version. 

I'M TOO
R U R' U'
for my shirt
TOO
R U R' U'
for my shirt
SO R U R' U'
it hurts


----------



## ryuusei86 (Mar 23, 2016)

Shaky Hands said:


> The rest (1 of 2x2, 13 of 3x3, 4 of 4x4, 2 of 5x5 and 1 of Clock plus some other stuff I might work out how to solve one day) are behind the bed.


So much for my hand-wringing several pages ago that I will have eight 3x3s when the next two arrive. In fact I'd better order some more, especially since there's no wife in the picture to worry about her opinion. (A friend of mine would call his wife SWMBO, or She Who Must Be Obeyed.)

On another topic, I've been looking on this forum and the TwistyPuzzles one for information on sticker mods. In particular, I'm wondering if there's one that would make a 4x4 _easier,_ in particular one that would prevent parity situations. I thought of stickering it with only three colors instead of six, say with the same color on opposite sides (a red-white-blue patriotic cube?). But though this would probably make it easier to solve, I'm guessing it would not prevent parity situations, as it sounds as if parity might be an integral part of the puzzle (apart from trivial cases like stickering all six sides with the same color).


----------



## mafergut (Mar 23, 2016)

Selkie said:


> Awesome solve, average cut in UK is 2:30 and I thought that was outside my reach, this gives me motivation. Thanks :tu
> 
> Re my obsession with stickerless [...] The stickerless has no catching issues and I have no idea why as the tensions aren't different to the three stickered ones I have!



Well, there's still a long way to go from 3:00 to 2:30 but I trust you can do it eventually.

Regarding catching maybe the absence of stickers makes some room for the corner to pass over the center cap easily? Moyu put some thinner (and uglier) stickers on the Aolong GT for a reason similar to that, I think.



ryuusei86 said:


> So much for my hand-wringing several pages ago that I will have eight 3x3s when the next two arrive. In fact I'd better order some more, especially since there's no wife in the picture to worry about her opinion. (A friend of mine would call his wife SWMBO, or She Who Must Be Obeyed.)
> 
> On another topic, I've been looking on this forum and the TwistyPuzzles one for information on sticker mods. In particular, I'm wondering if there's one that would make a 4x4 _easier,_ in particular one that would prevent parity situations. I thought of stickering it with only three colors instead of six, say with the same color on opposite sides (a red-white-blue patriotic cube?). But though this would probably make it easier to solve, I'm guessing it would not prevent parity situations, as it sounds as if parity might be an integral part of the puzzle (apart from trivial cases like stickering all six sides with the same color).



I think a 3-color 4x4 with opposite sides of the same color would prevent "PLL parity" but I think you would still have "OLL parity". Now that I think of it, maybe you could still get adjacent PLL parity as well? I'm sure there are lots of interesting things you can do with sticker mods in a 4x4 or big cubes in general. It would also be a nice pass time, as stickering those cubes must take a while


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## newtonbase (Mar 23, 2016)

I really need to do some more work on my own letter pair list. It's a useful exercise even if you don't actually memorise them all or stick to the list. I find audio easy to to do but that won't reliably get me past edges on one cube. Proper images are needed to have any chance at multi. 

As for wives, mine scowls at each delivery and mutters about them taking over the house but most of them get put away out of sight. I only keep a couple of mains on top of the piano that she brought into the house but never plays.


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## Shaky Hands (Mar 23, 2016)

ryuusei86 said:


> So much for my hand-wringing several pages ago that I will have eight 3x3s when the next two arrive. In fact I'd better order some more, especially since there's no wife in the picture to worry about her opinion. (A friend of mine would call his wife SWMBO, or She Who Must Be Obeyed.)



Ha ha.  Here they all are:



Spoiler







Part of the reason why I have so many 3x3's is I picked up several Zhanchi's when starting cubing after taking some out-of-date advice. The Gans will probably get some more action in the future, but I need to tension it correctly and am at a stage where I'm comfortable with the Moyu's at the moment. There's also 4 really stiff, non-modifiable cubes in there from the super-early days.

You'll probably spot the Skewb is a bit of learning-in-progress.


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## Logiqx (Mar 23, 2016)

h2f said:


> @Logiqx - I wonder what kind of practice did you do to make such a nice progress?



Ok. I don't think I have anything revolutionary to say about practice but I can tell you how my approach has changed and the effects I'm noticing. The past few days, I've been averaging low 17's which is 2-2.5 seconds faster than I was in January! My practice used to consist of an hour in my car during my lunchtime, 4-5 times a week. I used to do some causal solves at other times of day but I'd say 75-80% of my solves were timed and perhaps 20-25% we untimed.

Nowadays, I get to cube about an hour in the morning and an hour in the evening on the train but at least 75-80% of these solves are now untimed and at most 20-25% are timed. The untimed solves are all about "smooth turning" where my goal is to eliminate pauses and create the nicest possible flow and smoothest finger tricks for cross + F2L. I execute my LL algs at 60-70% normal speed to keep the noise to a minimum but I still aim to make them as smooth as possible and minimise pauses!

In a nutshell it's just what people call "slow turning" but I'm forcing myself to track the pieces moving around rather than relaxing and thinking "no need to concentrate at this speed". The net result is that my look ahead and tracking skills are rapidly improving and the speed that I can turn whilst still looking ahead and avoiding pauses is also increasing. I'm also developing some "know ahead" skills whereby I know where the pieces of the next F2L pair are going to land before I've finished the current pair. At the very least, I seem better at knowing where a corner will appear after solving the current F2L pair.

Another advantage of doing untimed solves is the ability to actually stop and consider alternative solutions. I'll sometimes unwind an F2L pair and try something different to see if it makes the next pair any better. If I see a missed opportunity for edge control during the final pair, I'll also go back and use a sledgehammer / whatever to get a more favourable OLL case. When I do something silly or miss opportunities, I make a mental note and try not to repeat it!

I'm putting more effort into my cross planning, eliminating rotations where possible and making them more finger-tricky. I used to incorporate u / u' into my cross a lot but I rarely use them now and use D / D' instead as they are more finger-tricky and I have a better idea about where everything is when I'm starting F2L. I still don't attempt to predict the first F2L pair during most solves but my improved cross planning / execution and general look-ahead skills mean that I often see the first pair during cross execution and transition to F2L without pausing.

I'm also changing a few of my OLLs and untimed solves are the ideal time to practice. There is no temptation to revert to my original alg when they crop up as the time does not matter!

TL-DR - Slow solving, deliberate practice.

I feel there is still a lot more improvement to be made using this approach and I also have a long list of other skills that I'm lacking; x-cross, advanced F2L, two-sided PLL recognition, AUF for all PLL cases, etc.


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## h2f (Mar 23, 2016)

@Logiqx, Thank You. You wrote about things I was thinking in last time but in my case it's a beginning of the road. I just found slow turning makes me joy in cubing but I havent tried the things you wrote. Just slow and pausless. I'll try to implement things you wrote.


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## newtonbase (Mar 23, 2016)

2 hours of practice a day? I'm turning the opposite of blue with envy. I'm on a mixed practice day in my training plan. My lunch break was spent fetching an outfit so my daughter could go to her forgotten school disco but I did manage to do 15 3x3 solves before my son woke up this evening and watched a keyhole pyraminx video in the bath. 
3 days of 4x4 practice starts tomorrow. 

We don't get much pyraminx talk here. Does anyone take it seriously? I find the different methods interesting but reasonable times seem very far off.


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## Chree (Mar 23, 2016)

@newtonbase - just get the whole family in on the fun, then everyone cubes all the time!

And though I don't take pyraminx seriously, I do think it's fun. Never looked into anything besides Keyhole, but L4E looks cool.


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## Jason Green (Mar 23, 2016)

Mike I was just thinking recently how I didn't hear as much about slow turning lately. Of course I was watching more videos on how to improve F2L back then so that's probably why. But I notice a lot of times my first solve of the day will be like 18, I think because I'm not rushing the turning and looking ahead a little. Overall my look ahead is really poor. When I really do it I can feel it and it's nice. I realize "hey there is my next corner or pair, and I'm still inserting this one!" It's almost a surprise still at this point when it happens right.

I do almost no untimed solves but I may start. I might look into better algs for some LL too. I think I may have chosen some based on what was easier to learn instead of what was fastest long term. Like learning a mirror case instead of something with more R U which I like. That would seem reasonable when I was overwhelmed with how much 78 algs is to learn, but seems silly now that I learned them.


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## Selkie (Mar 24, 2016)

@michael

Excellent post and really like you approach. There has been lots of talk of slow turning in the community but lots and lots of people have probably not implemented that to the same extent. I think I might try a half hour session a day on this. Whilst I do solve slowing in practice and alternate I do not do it as regimented as yourself. Great, great improvement. Very impressed.

More people should try slow turning, it is surprising what can be achieved. I know I posted this last year but there are some more regulars on the thread. This is a sub 19 average of 12 solves I filmed last year with slow turning throughout. You will notice there are still lots of pauses.


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## MarcelP (Mar 24, 2016)

Mike and Chris' slowturning is magical. Slow practice helped me to go sub 20. When I practice I also do 80% untimed and solve as slow and pause-less as possible. There is a sub 10 slow turning video of Feliks on a storebought Rubriks cube. Keep in mind that is all comes down to knowing all F2L (optimal) cases and recognise everything incl OLL, COLL and PLL way before executing.


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## muchacho (Mar 24, 2016)

I've cut my fingertip while fixing my home made camera head mount (it's attached to a "baseball" cap). I was going to film an ao5 now that I'm averaging less than the previous video I uploaded to youtube. I did manage to film a good average at the first try this time (a bit too good in fact, I was trying to get a 24.xx but I'll upload this 23.77 anyway), but it's the finger that makes M' moves (the cut is exactly where the finger touches the cube) and I can't cube well with a band aid so time for slow solves or megaminx.


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## muchacho (Mar 24, 2016)

For a few days now I'm using the Weilong again, it had a damaged spring, I've replaced them with Dayan springs and I like the cube more now, although it pops sometimes.

26.142 B2 D' B2 F2 R2 B2 F2 L2 U' L2 F2 R' B2 D' F' D2 F' R F' L2 F
23.919 R2 B2 U2 B2 D F2 U' L2 B2 L2 B2 R' U R U2 F D' L' B R' L2 U2
22.103 L2 F2 D2 U B2 D' B2 F2 R2 U' L U R D' R2 D2 F' D' U2 R' L2
24.271 B2 D R2 F2 R2 U' F2 U' L2 D2 R2 F D F R D' U R2 F U' L' U'
23.135 B2 U2 F2 D' L2 D L2 D2 R2 L2 D' F' L2 D2 U F' L' B R' F' R' U


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## earth2dan (Mar 24, 2016)

Shaky Hands said:


> Ha ha.  Here they all are:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Bonus points for the awesome AvP posters!


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## kbrune (Mar 24, 2016)

I picked up a 7x7, 6x6, and a sq1 last night on my way home from work. Which means I'm only a clock away from the ability to compete in all official events! Assuming I learn how to solve the sq1.

@newtonbase

I never cared much for Pyra or 2x2 before. But now that I've challenged myself to improve my sum. Pyra was an event that will make a big difference so I've taken it up. Honestly I found it difficult at first. Not because it's complicated but the shape makes Recog and all the visuals veeeeeery different so I spend half the solve searching. When staring I asked method advice from Louis Cormier and Antoine Cantin. They both told me to learn 1-flip. But keyhole is a nice precursor to that so I'm still using that. Until I'm able to start looking ahead. Hope that helps!


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## APdRF (Mar 24, 2016)

kbrune said:


> They both told me to learn 1-flip. But keyhole is a nice precursor to that so I'm still using that. Until I'm able to start looking ahead. Hope that helps!



The good thing about 1-flip is that you don't need to look ahead at all, just force yourself to do a good inspection and you are done


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## mafergut (Mar 24, 2016)

C'mon guys! Two pages while I was asleep? 

@Michael: thanks for your post on slow solving. I should definitely do more untimed solves and less timed ones. It's good that you reminded me of that because I tend to forget from time to time.

@Mark (newtonbase): pyraminx is a lot of fun so please, feel free to talk about pyraminx here. I have learned keyhole, basic WO and LBL but I solve 99% of the time with keyhole. L4E, 1-flip and Nutella are in my to do list, as many other things. I'm not what you'd call fast at it (Ao100 around 14-15 seconds). I got a nice sub-5 single yesterday in the 1st weekly comp scramble, which was kind of silly, but I just have like a dozen sub-10 singles so, lots of room for improvement. Alberto (APdRF) was the guy that pushed me into solving pyra, watching his walkthrough solve videos was inspiring (he's the current Spanish champion of the event).

@David: Sorry that you hurt your finger. Not being able to cube is sad. I had a slightly sprained wrist for some days and it was (swear word here) 

Talking about other things I have solved my new SS Gigaminx for the first time and it was so much fun. I thought I would have problems with pairing the two last tredges but either I was lucky or it's just the way it is and I got no parity on the last edge. As, obviously, the 5x5 alg would not work on a Gigaminx I wouldn't have known what to do in that case. The puzzle is so smooth for such a monster!!! Of course I don't think I'll ever try to speedsolve it, just casual solving. It took close to 1 hour 

Also, I have taken over the Race to Sub 15 thread, as nobody was taking care of it lately. You are all welcome to participate.


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## kbrune (Mar 24, 2016)

APdRF said:


> The good thing about 1-flip is that you don't need to look ahead at all, just force yourself to do a good inspection and you are done



I'm still having a hard time planning 2 edge pieces during inspection lol once I find that easy I'll add the flipped edge and work on the next step too.


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## Selkie (Mar 24, 2016)

muchacho said:


> For a few days now I'm using the Weilong again, it had a damaged spring, I've replaced them with Dayan springs and I like the cube more now, although it pops sometimes.



Very nice. Hope your finger is on the mend soon :tu



kbrune said:


> I picked up a 7x7, 6x6, and a sq1 last night on my way home from work. Which means I'm only a clock away from the ability to compete in all official events! Assuming I learn how to solve the sq1.
> 
> @newtonbase
> 
> I never cared much for Pyra or 2x2 before. But now that I've challenged myself to improve my sum. Pyra was an event that will make a big difference so I've taken it up. Honestly I found it difficult at first. Not because it's complicated but the shape makes Recog and all the visuals veeeeeery different so I spend half the solve searching. When staring I asked method advice from Louis Cormier and Antoine Cantin. They both told me to learn 1-flip. But keyhole is a nice precursor to that so I'm still using that. Until I'm able to start looking ahead. Hope that helps!



I am ok on pyraminx but I find skewb difficult to plan much on during inspection but I have only been solving it less than a month. Square-1 is great fun, a twisty puzzle with a real difference. Lid is the 'faztest' mature solver of that 

-------------------

Have to say the puzzle for me with the most recent improvement is 5x5. Just did an ao30 and think I can just about call myself sub 2:15. PBs for single, ao5 and ao12 in here too 

number of times: 30/30
best time: 1:52.45
worst time: 2:29.22

current avg5: 2:09.80 (σ = 0.77)
best avg5: 2:09.57 (σ = 4.10)

current avg12: 2:15.87 (σ = 5.74)
best avg12: 2:11.00 (σ = 6.27)

session avg: 2:14.69 (σ = 5.21)
session mean: 2:14.17

2:14.58, 2:19.98, 1:52.45, 2:11.93, 2:06.25, 2:16.94, 2:14.15, 2:08.30, 1:56.48, 2:18.27, 2:11.34, 2:14.79, 2:21.22, 2:11.54, 2:09.00, 2:13.76, 2:22.82, 2:25.11, 2:25.13, 2:15.50, 2:29.22, 2:10.02, 2:21.21, 2:17.73, 2:20.68, 2:09.04, 2:08.32, 2:10.58, 2:18.99, 2:09.78


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## mark49152 (Mar 24, 2016)

Nice going Chris, not a single solve over the UK soft cut


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## kbrune (Mar 24, 2016)

@selkie

Agreed on skewb. I currently try to plan for 1 or 2 corner atm. If im lucky I get both easily. My practice time is spread quite thin these days so skewb is going to take a casual back seat for now. 

I haven't touched the sq1 yet. It looks scary lol

Nice progress on 5x5! I'm looking forward to gaining some ground on 4x4 and 5x5


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## Shaky Hands (Mar 24, 2016)

Well done Chris. Those are similar to my 4x4 times, but you've got relative consistency on top of that. Great.


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## Selkie (Mar 24, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> Nice going Chris, not a single solve over the UK soft cut





kbrune said:


> Nice progress on 5x5! I'm looking forward to gaining some ground on 4x4 and 5x5





Shaky Hands said:


> Well done Chris. Those are similar to my 4x4 times, but you've got relative consistency on top of that. Great.



Thanks all. Strange as I have not practiced 5x5 as much as some other puzzles but the MoYu Bochuang is a great cube

@Mark ... Funny you should mention that sir. After the post I decided to continue with the session as was on course for another possible PB Ao12 and got a 2:31 so stopped


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## mafergut (Mar 24, 2016)

Somebody can point me to a simple enough 4BLD tutorial? I'm just curious how much more difficult it is than 3BLD


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## h2f (Mar 24, 2016)

Noah on cubing world has a good tutorial for 4bld. And i did one but in Polish. 

patataj patataj patataj


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## APdRF (Mar 24, 2016)

Mafergut, don't ever try 4BLD, look at my 3rd attempt when you feel like you want to try:


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## Logiqx (Mar 24, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> We don't get much pyraminx talk here. Does anyone take it seriously? I find the different methods interesting but reasonable times seem very far off.



I don't take it seriously but I do quite enjoy it. When I first started, I did lots of solves in the first fortnight which got me down to a 12 second global average.

Since then I only practice sporadically and prior to the UKC 2015, I was averaging about 10 seconds but I got slightly lucky and came away with a 9 second official average.






I watched a few Pyra videos after figuring out how to solve it LBL but I still use the same algs I figured out on the day I received the puzzle.

IMHO, LBL is fine unless you want to take it "seriously" or simply want to learn some stuff. I basically have 3 algs for the first layer (3 / 4 move insertions) and 5 algs for the last layer.

By all means play with the other methods if you enjoy them but you can get pretty fast with LBL.


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## mafergut (Mar 24, 2016)

h2f said:


> Noah on cubing world has a good tutorial for 4bld. And i did one but in Polish.



Thanks, I'm watching part 1 



APdRF said:


> Mafergut, don't ever try 4BLD, look at my 3rd attempt when you feel like you want to try: View attachment 6043



Why not? You almost succeeded in just your 3rd attempt!!!! That means I will just need 30 or 300


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## Logiqx (Mar 24, 2016)

I'm glad people liked the post about slow turning, etc.

Nice session on the train tonight... 29 solves:

Best Avg of 5: 16.145
Best Avg of 12: 16.699
Best Avg of 25: 16.890


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## MarcelP (Mar 24, 2016)

Logiqx said:


> Since then I only practice sporadically and prior to the UKC 2015, I was averaging about 10 seconds but I got slightly lucky and came away with a 9 second official average.



I haven't touched my pyra since last competition.  And I average 20 - 25 I think... 

But I had a nice 3x3 solve few minutes ago.. first solve of the day



Spoiler



*10.17* U' L2 B2 U' L2 U B2 U2 B2 R2 U' F L2 R' D' B' U2 L F D' L'

x' y' // inspection
L D R' y' R U' R' // x-CROSS
y' U R U' R' // 2nd 
U2 L U L' //3rd
L' U' L U2 L' U' L // 4th 
U L' U' L U' L' U2 L // LEFT SUNE
U R' U' R (y) R2 u (R' U R U' R) u' R2 U //G-perm


Click


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## Logiqx (Mar 24, 2016)

MarcelP said:


> I haven't touched my pyra since last competition.  And I average 20 - 25 I think...
> 
> But I had a nice 3x3 solve few minutes ago.. first solve of the day
> 
> ...



Nice. I hope you stopped after that solve so you can spend a whole day saying you average just over 10 seconds.


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## Jason Green (Mar 24, 2016)

Awesome job Marcel!


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## mafergut (Mar 24, 2016)

Wow! Nice solve, Marcel!

I just realized midway Noah's 4BLD video tutorial that I must learn M2 before trying to solve a 4x4


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## newtonbase (Mar 24, 2016)

I remember being very impressed with your pyraminx lookahead at the UKs Mike. Keyhole looks nice and still gives the option to switch to LBL depending on the case but I'll need to work on the first block when it comes up in my plan. 

Today is a 4x4 day. Managed a few timed solves in the low 2 mins with a 1:54 thrown in. Hoping for some practice time over the long weekend. 

I also tried 3 timed 3BLD solves and wasted nearly 12 mins rescrambling the cube. My untimed success rate is very high but I'm struggling to memo quickly.


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## h2f (Mar 24, 2016)

@Marcel, very nice solve!



mafergut said:


> Wow! Nice solve, Marcel!
> 
> I just realized midway Noah's 4BLD video tutorial that I must learn M2 before trying to solve a 4x4



Yes, you have to know it. The bright side of M2 is that it's a great method and if you will get into bld you can easily make transiton to comms and I you not you will solve the cube with a very efficient method. 

About slow turning - all day I did slow solves and in the late evening I've made 30 minutes practice which I've recorded. I just reviewed it and I got 8 sub 20 solves with 16.xx in it.


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## Selkie (Mar 24, 2016)

Logiqx said:


> By all means play with the other methods if you enjoy them but you can get pretty fast with LBL.



Up until last week I used a a LBL method with no LL algs, just brute force and have recently tried to improve on that. Only learned the 3 cycles and 2 flip and enjoying Pyra. Will learn the cycle + flip algs this weekend ready for comp next weekend but already averaging about 17s 



Logiqx said:


> I'm glad people liked the post about slow turning, etc.
> 
> Nice session on the train tonight... 29 solves:
> 
> ...



I think its fair to say you are sub 17 sir. Only a second behind me now. Going to adopt your excellent training technique post comp in exeter :tu



MarcelP said:


> But I had a nice 3x3 solve few minutes ago.. first solve of the day



Lovely solve Marcel. You seem to rotate a lot less than me. That's a habit I need to get out of


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## mark49152 (Mar 24, 2016)

mafergut said:


> I just realized midway Noah's 4BLD video tutorial that I must learn M2 before trying to solve a 4x4


That's a good reason to learn M2 now . 

I learned from Noah's tutorial too. 4BLD is definitely a bigger challenge than 3BLD, but if you're comfortable with 3BLD and can do a 2 cube multi, give it a go. You can always learn r2 first and M2 later. Centres with U2 is a similar concept as well.

It's my favourite event right now.


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## Logiqx (Mar 24, 2016)

Selkie said:


> Up until last week I used a a LBL method with no LL algs, just brute force and have recently tried to improve on that. Only learned the 3 cycles and 2 flip and enjoying Pyra. Will learn the cycle + flip algs this weekend ready for comp next weekend but already averaging about 17s



Here are my Pyra notes if they are useful...

My algs - LL

Flip FL + FR in place: (R' L R L') (U L' U' L)
Flip FL + FR and cycle edges counter-clockwise: (R' L R L') (U' L' U L) - i.e. sledge-hammer bad sticker first
Flip FL + FR and cycle edges clockwise: (L R' L' R) (U R U' R') - i.e. sledge-hammer bad sticker first

Cycle edges counter-clockwise: (R U R') U (R U R') - i.e use U
Cycle edges clockwise: (R U' R') U' (R U' R') - i.e. use U'

LL Probabilities

2-flip - 1/4
CCW cycle with 2-flip - 1/4
CW cycle with 2-flip - 1/4

CCW cycle - 1/12
CW cycle - 1/12
Solved - 1/12



Selkie said:


> I think its fair to say you are sub 17 sir. Only a second behind me now. Going to adopt your excellent training technique post comp in exeter :tu



I'm not quite there but I am knocking on the door! I'm on holiday next week but ironically, I'll get far less opportunity to practice.

I'll try to maintain my current level and start working on becoming properly sub-17 once I am commuting again the following week.

Sub-16 by end of June, sub-15 by end of December? Maybe...


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## newtonbase (Mar 24, 2016)

Logiqx said:


> U]My algs - LL[/U]
> 
> Flip FL + FR in place: (R' L R L') (U L' U' L)
> Flip FL + FR and cycle edges counter-clockwise: (R' L R L') (U' L' U L) - i.e. sledge-hammer bad sticker first
> ...



For the flip and cycle cases I put the bad edge and the edge in the colour block in front and do 
L, R, U, R', U', L' or R', L', U', L, U, R always starting with the not bad edge. Fewer moves but fiddly.


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## Selkie (Mar 24, 2016)

Logiqx said:


> Here are my Pyra notes if they are useful...
> 
> My algs - LL
> 
> ...



Super stuff Michael, thanks a lot for these. The three algs I know so far are these so will learn the others from you. As a side note how do you execute the two 3 cycles. I have not found good finger tricks for them yet.

Re Sub 15 I think you are likely to make it before me at your current rate though hoping some concentration post comp and finishing learning WV will help my cause. The WV cases I know so far I just practice in isolation so once I know all cases I will be putting a month ban on timing solves to ensure I incorporate them. My 3x3 seems very inconsistent at the moment as I struggle between full pace and slow timed solving. However I am determined I will not sit on another 2 year plateau again


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## Logiqx (Mar 24, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> For the flip and cycle cases I put the bad edge and the edge in the colour block in front and do
> L, R, U, R', U', L' or R', L', U', L, U, R always starting with the not bad edge. Fewer moves but fiddly.



I need to play with those... I can finger trick the first one nicely but I find the second one more awkward for some reason.

@Chris. I may do a finger trick video for you instead of using words.


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## MarcelP (Mar 25, 2016)

Logiqx said:


> Nice. I hope you stopped after that solve so you can spend a whole day saying you average just over 10 seconds.



In fact I did.. LOL. This scramble came from a facebook group I am on and I knew it had to be good for green cross. So I timed it, wrote down solution and stopped cubing to go to bed 



Selkie said:


> Lovely solve Marcel. You seem to rotate a lot less than me. That's a habit I need to get out of



Although I try to solve with few rotations while practice, I think this solve was mainly lucky with few roatation.


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## newtonbase (Mar 25, 2016)

Logiqx said:


> I need to play with those... I can finger trick the first one nicely but I find the second one more awkward for some reason.



I'd like to see how you do it. I struggle a little with recognition on the case but nothing that practice won't fix.


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## moralsh (Mar 25, 2016)

Wow, so much writing in there!

@Marcel, wow, very nice solve, I'm still in the "sometimes a 14" phase and you have a 10, wow.

@Mike My train trips are shorter (around 20 minutes), only a couple days a week, and dedicated to 4 or 5 blind but train is an awesome place to practice.

@Chris I have a similar cam and the battery is awful it discharges itself with no use and I need to charge it in advance every time i want to use it. Tell us your impressions after a couple of weeks, please 

@Miguel Ángel, soon you'll have a tutorial in "Mundo cubero" by me (recorded but not edited yet) but you'll need some M2 and a little conmutators background you have this one in spanish https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cA8ia_LTwrY which uses (U2,r2,OP) mine will be (comms, r2, OP). and Noah, Corey Sakowski and Daniel Sheppard are pretty good in english

@Mark and @Grzegorz I'm lagging a bit behind in the race to sub 8 (averaging around 10 flat right now) but slowly improving. 5BLD on the other hand is giving me more joy and I'm getting around 25 with still very slow execution (around 12) so there's margin in there.

Will attempt 6BLD or 2-5BLD relay on saturday or sunday (maybe both) I will probably film it. will tell you how it goes.


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## h2f (Mar 25, 2016)

@Raul - Good Luck. I've made few sighted solves so far and I must try 6bld blindfolded to see what problems are with doing memo and execution. And I'm little off blindfold solving this weekend due to lack of time (Easter time).


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## muchacho (Mar 25, 2016)

I've timed some megaminx solves where I'm using some basic pairing, a bit more than 6 minutes. S2L is hard, but F2L is easy, that part is not much slower than with beginners method.


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## Logiqx (Mar 25, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> I'd like to see how you do it. I struggle a little with recognition on the case but nothing that practice won't fix.



I made a short video...


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## mafergut (Mar 25, 2016)

@Michael: Nice fingertricks. The one I think I can do faster differently is the counterclockwise 3 cycle for LBL, where you do Us with backpush of the left index finger. I do that just as a mirror of the other one. I mean, doing L U L' U L U L' doing the Us with my right hand.

Also, I'm hooked with BLD learning right now. I just learned the (easy) algs for U and D targets for U2 centers and did a couple sighted solves of just the 4x4 centers. I still make some mistakes when thinking if I need and f or f' or l or l' to interchange the center pieces and also tend to forget whether I did a d/d' or u/u' setup move for targets like FDL or BUL, for example, but I'm getting better at it. Maybe a good way to avoid that last mistake would be to either do u2 or d2 or just do always the same like d or u' (left hand) and d' or u to undo (right hand). What do you recommend?

I think it's time to go back to 3x3 and learn M2 once and for all. I just wanted to try 4BLD at this weekly comp but I'm far from ready for the challenge as M2/r2 need some more algs that I cannot pretend to learn on the spot. Also there's the parity algs...  Right now I only know the one for U2 centers


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## APdRF (Mar 25, 2016)

mafergut said:


> Also, I'm hooked with BLD learning right now. I just learned the (easy) algs for U and D targets for U2 centers and did a couple sighted solves of just the 4x4 centers. I still make some mistakes when thinking if I need and f or f' or l or l' to interchange the center pieces and also tend to forget whether I did a d/d' or u/u' setup move for targets like FDL or BUL, for example, but I'm getting better at it. Maybe a good way to avoid that last mistake would be to either do u2 or d2 or just do always the same like d or u' (left hand) and d' or u to undo (right hand). What do you recommend?
> 
> I think it's time to go back to 3x3 and learn M2 once and for all. I just wanted to try 4BLD at this weekly comp but I'm far from ready for the challenge as M2/r2 need some more algs that I cannot pretend to learn on the spot. Also there's the parity algs...  Right now I only know the one for U2 centers



For the centers, I think that's only a matter of time to do always the same. My advice would be: do what seems natural to you and you'll get used to it pretty soon.

Also, for M2 or r2 you really don'r need to learn any algs, it's enough with simple set up moves before a letter pair that contains a "difficult" target.


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## mafergut (Mar 25, 2016)

APdRF said:


> For the centers, I think that's only a matter of time to do always the same. My advice would be: do what seems natural to you and you'll get used to it pretty soon.
> 
> Also, for M2 or r2 you really don'r need to learn any algs, it's enough with simple set up moves before a letter pair that contains a "difficult" target.



Well, right now I'm on M2 with Noah's tutorial and I've already covered the outer and inner targets. For those the setups, as you say, are obvious and don't need to be memorized. I'm referring to the M-slice targets. I'm right now midway through them. The flipping alg for the BU (Q) target is intuitive enough and BU (A) is piece of cake . U2 M' U2 M' and its inverse for UF (C) and DB (W) are also easy to learn, the only two that seem a lilttle bit longer are the ones for FU (I) and BD (S).

I remember that somebody posted the algs they were using here, I need to search for those to see if there are any alternatives. I also think somebody said that for the 4 targets in the M slice that were affected by odd/even target it was better to just fix that during memo, so in they are even targets just memo C instead of W and viceversa and same with I and S (Speffz letter scheme). Am I right?

Edit: Found all that discussion on page 735


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## mark49152 (Mar 25, 2016)

mafergut said:


> I also think somebody said that for the 4 targets in the M slice that were affected by odd/even target it was better to just fix that during memo, so in they are even targets just memo C instead of W and viceversa and same with I and S (Speffz letter scheme). Am I right?


Yes . In my opinion, anyway. It makes for less thinking during execution.


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## Logiqx (Mar 25, 2016)

mafergut said:


> @Michael: Nice fingertricks. The one I think I can do faster differently is the counterclockwise 3 cycle for LBL, where you do Us with backpush of the left index finger. I do that just as a mirror of the other one. I mean, doing L U L' U L U L' doing the Us with my right hand.



Thanks. I was considering this myself whilst doing the video. I'll give it another go when I next do some practice.

I found some of the cases a bit tricky, reaching around the tripod and in view of the camera. The "pressure" of filming also lead to a few fails as well!


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## newtonbase (Mar 25, 2016)

Logiqx said:


> I made a short video...
> 
> https://youtu.be/7hPbv2uNRe0



I like the fingertricks and thanks for the mention.


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## mafergut (Mar 25, 2016)

Logiqx said:


> Thanks. I was considering this myself whilst doing the video. I'll give it another go when I next do some practice.
> 
> I found some of the cases a bit tricky, reaching around the tripod and in view of the camera. The "pressure" of filming also lead to a few fails as well!



Yeah, it's complicated to do that with the camera in between you and the puzzle. Anyway, I was just meaning that I can do that alg faster than I can do the one you filmed, not faster than you


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## APdRF (Mar 25, 2016)

mafergut said:


> Well, right now I'm on M2 with Noah's tutorial and I've already covered the outer and inner targets. For those the setups, as you say, are obvious and don't need to be memorized. I'm referring to the M-slice targets. I'm right now midway through them. The flipping alg for the BU (Q) target is intuitive enough and BU (A) is piece of cake . U2 M' U2 M' and its inverse for UF (C) and DB (W) are also easy to learn, the only two that seem a lilttle bit longer are the ones for FU (I) and BD (S).



If you have the DB target in a letter pair, for example DF->FR->BD, you can do a B before executing the letter pair, then execute DF->FR->BR, then B'. Easy enough


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## newtonbase (Mar 25, 2016)

My 9 year old nephew has done his first solves. I got him a Weilong 2 years ago when I had first started but he wasn't very interested. He's a high achiever but isn't too keen on stuff that he can't do straight away. This changed as he came to spectate at the Manchester comp and got the bug. His first solve was 3 mins and he's now sub 2. He's such a clever kid that I expect he'll be properly competitive quite soon.


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## muchacho (Mar 25, 2016)

Nice, did you teach him something or he just searched youtube?


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## newtonbase (Mar 25, 2016)

I showed him on holiday last August but he didn't keep up with it enough to get past a layer. I had suggested Bad Mephisto but I'm waiting to see a video to check his method. He lives a couple of hundred miles away so I don't have the influence I'd like. I've already told his mum to make sure he's colour neutral.


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## Logiqx (Mar 25, 2016)

I've been stationary on the M1 for the past 50 minutes and haven't moved a millimiter. The lady in the car next to me is reading a book. Guess what I'm doing .  

Sent from my GT-I9305 using Tapatalk


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## Jason Green (Mar 25, 2016)

Just got this while practicing for Dallas comp! I'm going to try and reconstruct, it was a super nice scramble. 







Edit: I think it's give forever, I can't even figure out what cross I did. Maybe I messed up the scramble??


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## mark49152 (Mar 25, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> I've already told his mum to make sure he's colour neutral.


LOL



Logiqx said:


> I've been stationary on the M1 for the past 50 minutes and haven't moved a millimiter. The lady in the car next to me is reading a book. Guess what I'm doing .


Posting on speedsolving?


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## mafergut (Mar 25, 2016)

APdRF said:


> If you have the DB target in a letter pair, for example DF->FR->BD, you can do a B before executing the letter pair, then execute DF->FR->BR, then B'. Easy enough



Nice advanced trick. So unless you have it as the last and lone target in a cube with parity you can always do that and avoid the longish alg, right? Am I assuming too much if I say that, for the FU (I) target you can do a similar thing with, let's say U' and changing the FU target to RU, executing the pair and then undoing the setup with U?

For the other 2 targets DB (W) and UF (C), even though you could do something similar I also asume it is not worth it as the alg is in fact shorter than the setup + M2 + undo setup sequence.

I could do the example solve in the last part of Noah's tutorial with a success!!! And now I can't get off my mind the sound memo for the edges shin-had-safe pub-ick-oa  and his friend Jo is still eating a Pie on an XL barBQ (for me BQ is a barBQ, in English ). I just need to review the algs a couple times more, including the parity one, and I'm all set to start trying some slow solves with M2!!! I think I'll give it a go at sound memo for edges as he suggests.

By the way, another question, with OP is used to memo corners then edges and execute in the same order but for OP/M2 I think the best approach (simpler parity fix) is to execute edges and the corners. Do you all do it that way?


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## Logiqx (Mar 25, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> LOL
> 
> 
> Posting on speedsolving?


Bonus 30 minute OH session. 

Sent from my GT-I9305 using Tapatalk


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## mark49152 (Mar 25, 2016)

mafergut said:


> Nice advanced trick. So unless you have it as the last and lone target in a cube with parity you can always do that and avoid the longish alg, right? Am I assuming too much if I say that, for the FU (I) target you can do a similar thing with, let's say U' and changing the FU target to RU, executing the pair and then undoing the setup with U?


https://www.speedsolving.com/forum/showthread.php?56076-Advanced-M2-guide

Check out the other tricks for DB and FU, and also see Ollie's comments about using them as alternative targets. These two stickers look bad when you first learn M2, but are actually among the most efficient to solve.


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## mafergut (Mar 25, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> https://www.speedsolving.com/forum/showthread.php?56076-Advanced-M2-guide
> 
> Check out the other tricks for DB and FU, and also see Ollie's comments about using them as alternative targets. These two stickers look bad when you first learn M2, but are actually among the most efficient to solve.



I will surely check those out, thanks. I'm learning a lot from you all


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## EvilGnome6 (Mar 26, 2016)

Well, it's official. I am now a candidate delegate for the WCA.


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## muchacho (Mar 26, 2016)

Congrats, I guess you'll go to more competitions now?


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## Logiqx (Mar 26, 2016)

EvilGnome6 said:


> Well, it's official. I am now a candidate delegate for the WCA.


Congratulations.

Sent from my GT-I9305 using Tapatalk


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## newtonbase (Mar 26, 2016)

EvilGnome6 said:


> Well, it's official. I am now a candidate delegate for the WCA.



Excellent. Well done.


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## h2f (Mar 26, 2016)

EvilGnome6 said:


> Well, it's official. I am now a candidate delegate for the WCA.



Congrats.


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## Jason Green (Mar 26, 2016)

EvilGnome6 said:


> Well, it's official. I am now a candidate delegate for the WCA.


Way to go Mike!


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## EvilGnome6 (Mar 26, 2016)

muchacho said:


> Congrats, I guess you'll go to more competitions now?



Hopefully.


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## mafergut (Mar 26, 2016)

EvilGnome6 said:


> Well, it's official. I am now a candidate delegate for the WCA.



Congrats, Mike!!! Well deserved, I'm sure, after organizing some very good comps.


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## Selkie (Mar 26, 2016)

Logiqx said:


> I made a short video...
> 
> https://youtu.be/7hPbv2uNRe0



Fantastic, thanks for this, much appreciated. Unfortunately cannot repeat finger trick U and U' with my left finger, my Qiyi stickerless Pyraminx is too loose and misshapes. Maybe I'll play with the tensions.



Jason Green said:


> Just got this while practicing for Dallas comp! I'm going to try and reconstruct, it was a super nice scramble.
> 
> http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160325/608e8a00d70215050cef3d056d9467a3.jpg
> 
> Edit: I think it's give forever, I can't even figure out what cross I did. Maybe I messed up the scramble??



Awesome solve Jason 



EvilGnome6 said:


> Well, it's official. I am now a candidate delegate for the WCA.



Congratulations :tu

--------------------

My stickerless Dayan Megaminx has arrived. It is quite tight but wanted to do some solves before adjusting it. First ever Ao12 and beginning to get used to the new colour scheme.

Ao12: 5:23.95
Ao5: 5:10.29
Single: 4:55.40


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## mafergut (Mar 26, 2016)

Selkie said:


> My stickerless Dayan Megaminx has arrived. It is quite tight but wanted to do some solves before adjusting it. First ever Ao12 and beginning to get used to the new colour scheme.



I forgot to congratulate Jason for the sub-15. You're catching up so fast, man! Nice job.

Regarding the Dayan Mega please tell me your 1st impressions as I just ordered one myself (also stickerless but ridged). It was only two days until they closed the sale at lightake for the Bochuang at just $13.75 so I decided to order one (in black, they didn't have stickerless) and also the Dayan Mega. As two puzzles was a much worse number than three and I'm not that satisfied with my new YJ GuanSu I decided to get also a CB G4 stickerless, which was dirt cheap  Now, when I finish learning U2/r2 I can try also a 4BLD multi of 3 cubes as Raúl  Of course mine will take like 3 hours and end with 0/3.

How can I put a new order through when my new AoFu GT has not even arrived yet? Is this an addiction?


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## kbrune (Mar 26, 2016)

EvilGnome6 said:


> Well, it's official. I am now a candidate delegate for the WCA.



Congrats! How do you become a delegate? I'm looking to host a competition for the first time this fall maybe. But I was always curious to know what the process is for delegacy?


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## EvilGnome6 (Mar 26, 2016)

kbrune said:


> Congrats! How do you become a delegate? I'm looking to host a competition for the first time this fall maybe. But I was always curious to know what the process is for delegacy?



You have to be nominated by a delegate. If you take the initiative to organize competitions and there is a need for a delegate in your area, that will improve the odds that whoever is delegating your competitions will nominate you.


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## Selkie (Mar 26, 2016)

mafergut said:


> I forgot to congratulate Jason for the sub-15. You're catching up so fast, man! Nice job.
> 
> Regarding the Dayan Mega please tell me your 1st impressions as I just ordered one myself (also stickerless but ridged). It was only two days until they closed the sale at lightake for the Bochuang at just $13.75 so I decided to order one (in black, they didn't have stickerless) and also the Dayan Mega. As two puzzles was a much worse number than three and I'm not that satisfied with my new YJ GuanSu I decided to get also a CB G4 stickerless, which was dirt cheap  Now, when I finish learning U2/r2 I can try also a 4BLD multi of 3 cubes as Raúl  Of course mine will take like 3 hours and end with 0/3.
> 
> How can I put a new order through when my new AoFu GT has not even arrived yet? Is this an addiction?



First impressions are very good to be fair. It was not lubed and is tight so first couple of solves were hard work. I am tempted not to loosen it yet as this tight I hope it will break in quicker. Any comparison has to be with my 6 year old MF8 but my first impressions are good. Corner cutting is great and it will cut 45 degrees .... wait 5 sides .. will cut 36 degrees without issue  It is happier turning when not exactly aligned and I used to get a lot of lockups on my MF8. Colour scheme is ok. At least with green opposite green and blue opposite blue etc there should not be much confusion but the two shades of yellow plastic are a bit close for my liking. I dont think it will take me long to get down to old times tto be fair though I am half wishing I had ordered the ridged one and may yet order one as well.

Yes it certainly is an addiction but you are in good company haha  Great choice on the Bochuang and CB G4, I cannot recommend them enough. Had a dispatch notification from Cubicle for this order:-

1 x Big Maru Lube (100mL)
- Size: 100cc
2 x ScrapeRite Polycarbonate Sticker Razor (2-Sided)
1 x CubeTwist Magic
- Color: Black
1 x World Cube Association Cube Mat
1 x LingAo Master Magic
- Color: Black
1 x X-Man Tornado
- Color: Stickerless (Bright)
1 x MoYu BoChuang 5x5 GT
- Color: Stickerless (Bright)
1 x Maru Axis Oil
- Size: 10cc
1 x DaYan 2x2 50mm
- Color: Stickerless
10 x Cubicle Logo 3x3
2 x 3x3 White 56mm - Gans
2 x Cubicle Logo Square-1 (Style 2 - Long)
2 x 3x3 Red 56mm - Gans
2 x 3x3 Fluro Bright Orange 56mm - Gans
2 x 3x3 Fluro Yellow 56mm - Gans
2 x 3x3 Fluro Green 56mm - Gans
2 x 3x3 Sky Blue 56mm - Gans

I will do an unboxing again but of main note are the Tornado and Bochuang in stickerless given how much I love the CB stickerless 4x4. A couple o magics for WC (Lost mine after it was withdrawn as official event) plus some replacement stickers. I have snuck in there some lube and hope the parcel will get through customs ok with liquid in there!


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## Jason Green (Mar 26, 2016)

Thanks Chris and @mafergut! Well I got PBs in my comp today. Still above my "home" average but that's expected for me at least. I took this screen shot because it looks like I will advance, but I won't really the round is not over yet.


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## mafergut (Mar 26, 2016)

@Chris: Nice order. It's a pity that lightake did not have the BoChuang in stickerless. They had the Yuxin 5x5 but I thought that if I want a Yuxin i can always get it later but the price of the Bochuang was irresistible  The corner cutting you are mentioning for the Dayan Mega is far beyond what my unmodded SS can achieve so I think it will be a good investement. I also thought about buying a magic, master magic and clock (even though I hate clock) just for the weekly comp but I will leave those for later. Enough buying for now.

Talking about other things, I finished learning basic M2 and started doing some sighted edge solves, which went quite nice (around 5-6 minutes, including memo). Then I have tried 3 or 4 full blind solves but no successes for now. Some had wrong memo AND execution but two of them where just execution mistakes (probably with target setups/undo) as I was able to rescramble the cube and then do a sighted solve with the same memo, finishing is solved cubes  I have taken Noah's advice and I'm practising edge memo with audio (memo last and execute first) and it seems that memo is sticking long enough for me to try and solve the cube twice  I will keep trying until I get a success, other practise will have to wait for now.

EDIT: I have reached my post number 1,500 
Also, congrats again to Jason for your official PBs and good luck in next round!


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## kbrune (Mar 26, 2016)

EvilGnome6 said:


> You have to be nominated by a delegate. If you take the initiative to organize competitions and there is a need for a delegate in your area, that will improve the odds that whoever is delegating your competitions will nominate you.



Cool thanks. I know the delegate in my province fairly well and I'm sure that he would approve once I get a few comps under my belt. Should they decide there's a need for a delegate that is.


@Jason

Nice! Hopefully you make the next round! What other events are you competing in? Keep us posted on your results.

Which comp are you at? In the US right? I just checked WCA page and they've changed it and now I can't seem to find your comp.


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## Jason Green (Mar 26, 2016)

kbrune said:


> Cool thanks. I know the delegate in my province fairly well and I'm sure that he would approve once I get a few comps under my belt. Should they decide there's a need for a delegate that is.
> 
> 
> @Jason
> ...


Just 2x2. They aren't having any large cubes. 

http://m.cubecomps.com/competitions/1438/events


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## mafergut (Mar 26, 2016)

Yes!!! First success at OP/M2. 6:33.xx memo and 4:00.xx execution. With parity (7 corner targets, 1 cycle and 13 edge targets, 3 cycles).

Scramble: F D' L2 D' R D F D F2 R2 U2 B U2 F U2 B D2 F2 D2 R

Memo: Corners: KM OL FQ H, Edges: MH FV AW AD GN JI E

I'm so happy! Now I only have to shave off 5 minutes in memo and 3 in execution


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## kbrune (Mar 26, 2016)

mafergut said:


> Yes!!! First success at OP/M2. 6:33.xx memo and 4:00.xx execution. With parity (7 corner targets, 1 cycle and 13 edge targets, 3 cycles).
> 
> Scramble: F D' L2 D' R D F D F2 R2 U2 B U2 F U2 B D2 F2 D2 R
> 
> ...



Nice! I like M2 it's fun to use.


@Jason

Nice 2x2 average


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## Jason Green (Mar 26, 2016)

kbrune said:


> Nice! I like M2 it's fun to use.
> 
> 
> @Jason
> ...


Thanks! Yeah 8.99 I couldn't believe it. I can't even get that in the WC.  I think the pressure was off because I didn't care as much.


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## h2f (Mar 26, 2016)

mafergut said:


> Yes!!! First success at OP/M2. 6:33.xx memo and 4:00.xx execution. With parity (7 corner targets, 1 cycle and 13 edge targets, 3 cycles).
> 
> Scramble: F D' L2 D' R D F D F2 R2 U2 B U2 F U2 B D2 F2 D2 R
> 
> ...



Congrats

@Jason, Nice and congrats.


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## Jason Green (Mar 26, 2016)

mafergut said:


> Yes!!! First success at OP/M2. 6:33.xx memo and 4:00.xx execution. With parity (7 corner targets, 1 cycle and 13 edge targets, 3 cycles).
> 
> Scramble: F D' L2 D' R D F D F2 R2 U2 B U2 F U2 B D2 F2 D2 R
> 
> ...


Congrats to you! No second round for me, some pretty good cubers here.


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## MarcelP (Mar 26, 2016)

Awesome!!


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## h2f (Mar 26, 2016)

@Jason, Awsome photo!


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## kbrune (Mar 26, 2016)

Jason Green said:


> Thanks! Yeah 8.99 I couldn't believe it. I can't even get that in the WC.  I think the pressure was off because I didn't care as much.



Same reason I have an official single of 6.75 and a05 of 8.47. I never practiced it but that one time I ended up kickin ass. Now I have to practice to beat it lol

Nice pic with Anthony! Pretty cool


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## Jason Green (Mar 26, 2016)

Thanks! He actually wanted a pic of my shirt, so I thought I better get one with him also. I'm bad about thinking to do stuff like that until later and then I'll think I should have.  He's a super nice guy, as most cubers seem be!


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## mark49152 (Mar 26, 2016)

Nice results Jason, and congrats mafergut on the M2 success!


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## SenorJuan (Mar 26, 2016)

@Jason: Time for a new avatar pic, I think.


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## Jason Green (Mar 26, 2016)

SenorJuan said:


> @Jason: Time for a new avatar pic, I think.


I think so! I'll have to remember when I'm on the computer, or see if I can do it on this somehow.


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## Jason Green (Mar 26, 2016)

BTW, I got to try a Yuxin 5x5, it's great I think I'll have to older one soon! Also the Lingpo 2x2 was nice. Although I lubed my Fangshi yesterday and it felt a lot better.


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## Jason Green (Mar 27, 2016)

Here's the full set of solves I got recorded. I missed two of my 3x3s, one I forgot to got record, and the other I think I must have shut the phone off while fixing the tripod. Oh well. 

Dallas Spring Cubing 2016: http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLeD7wOfgWL5fn_Rfp-R8PkYBXaCrPRrE2


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## Jason Green (Mar 27, 2016)

SenorJuan said:


> @Jason: Time for a new avatar pic, I think.


How's it look.


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## h2f (Mar 27, 2016)

Cool avatar. Watching your solves!


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## Jason Green (Mar 27, 2016)

h2f said:


> Cool avatar. Watching your solves!


Thanks, nothing spectacular but can't complain with be PBs. I'm afraid I won't get my 2x2 average in comp next month since I'm really more like 11-12 consistently right now.


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## h2f (Mar 27, 2016)

I think you are much closer to sub-20 than you think. It seems that your fingertricks are fine but your times suffer due to lack of lookahead. I think this is main thing you should work on. This advice is from a completly noob in lookahead.


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## Jason Green (Mar 27, 2016)

h2f said:


> I think you are much closer to sub-20 than you think. It seems that your fingertricks are fine but your times suffer due to lack of lookahead. I think this is main thing you should work on. This advice is from a completly noob in lookahead.


I agree with you. When I watch my solves I am amazed how much it seems like pauses between each step. I'm not sure learning to look ahead better is any easier than learning anything else. I do like to see my turning does not appear too slow when I watch back. 

I listened to Crazy bad cuber's interview with Feliks last night. Feliks said what had been talked about here. That he did not time himself always and probably over half his practice was untimed. He said he would carry a cube with him and try to learn new things around the house. I definitely need to work on untimed solves, it's difficult for me I always want to time. But I know it can help me focus on things like look ahead, better cross, etc.


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## SenorJuan (Mar 27, 2016)

Looks good Jason. I wonder if Mr. PJK would consider allowing bigger avatar pics, 80 px is a touch small. They could be wider without affecting the page layout. 120w x 90h or 160w x 120h would be obvious 4:3 ratio choices.

On the subject of 'non timed' solves, here's a halfway idea I've used:
have a timer running continuously, eg. watch, PC/phone timer. When the time is xx:45 start your inspection, and at xy:00 start your solve. When you've finished, you can look at the time if you want, just to judge how much slower you are. Then hand-scramble & repeat at xy:45


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## MarcelP (Mar 27, 2016)

Jason Green said:


> Thanks, nothing spectacular but can't complain with be PBs. I'm afraid I won't get my 2x2 average in comp next month since I'm really more like 11-12 consistently right now.



And you offical 2x2 avg is faster than mine! Good job!


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## mafergut (Mar 27, 2016)

Nice average, Jason, and nice new avatar too! I really want to go to a comp one day...

And thanks to you all for your encouragement with BLD. I am liking it a lot, to the point that I have done almost no speedsolves during this whole long weekend. Just watching tutorials and doing sigthed and "normal" BLD solves since I finished with the weekly comp solves.


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## Selkie (Mar 27, 2016)

mafergut said:


> Yes!!! First success at OP/M2. 6:33.xx memo and 4:00.xx execution. With parity (7 corner targets, 1 cycle and 13 edge targets, 3 cycles).
> 
> Scramble: F D' L2 D' R D F D F2 R2 U2 B U2 F U2 B D2 F2 D2 R
> 
> ...



Fantastic, awesome work :tu

@Jason

Congratulations on your results and indeed nice avatar pic :tu


-----------------

Megaminx 4:59.73, 5:09.99, 4:56.50, 5:09.58, 4:52.60 = 5:01.96

In weekly comp with new stickerless Dayan which is beginning to break in nicely.

Be really interested is hearing how others do up to LL. I do:-

Star (Cross)
First 5 x F2L
Create 5 x 3 blocks to leave
Last 5 x F2L

But this does seem very un-optimised to me and if I am going to change method, now is the time to do it.


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## mafergut (Mar 27, 2016)

Selkie said:


> Megaminx 4:59.73, 5:09.99, 4:56.50, 5:09.58, 4:52.60 = 5:01.96
> In weekly comp with new stickerless Dayan which is beginning to break in nicely.
> 
> Be really interested is hearing how others do up to LL. I do:-
> ...



Nice times. You're getting up to speed fast 

What I do, including color sequence I always follow:

- white star
- F2L, in no specific order, just as I see the pieces
- Red face, meaning the two missing edges (red-light yellow and red-pink) and the 3 "S2L" pairs that go with red "on bottom" (green-light yellow, light yellow-pink and pink-blue).
- Blue face (blue-light green edge and pink-light green, light green yellow S2L pairs).
- Yellow face (orange-yellow edge and light green-orange, orange-purple S2L pairs).
- For the final face (light blue) I put the green-light blue edge, do an F' and insert the purple-light blue pair, then do an F and insert the last 2 pairs (light yellow-light blue and light blue-orange.
- Then LL 

And, by the way... 8:38.xx OP/M2 success  (5:26.xx memo and 3:11.xx execution).


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## Lid (Mar 27, 2016)

Lets see Selkie ...
First white-star, (I use the Mefferts colour scheme)
Then F2L in any order
Then the two red edges + the 3 pairs, any order
Then the teal edge + the 2 pairs, any order
Then the green edge + the 2 pairs, any order

Last two faces: (LL=yellow, other face=brown)
I build the brown block basicly in any order, first an edge then pair, pair pair
Then on to LL ... (EO/CO/EP/CP)

(PBs 1:37.61 single, 1:50.89 a12)


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## Selkie (Mar 28, 2016)

mafergut said:


> What I do, including color sequence I always follow:
> 
> - white star
> - F2L, in no specific order, just as I see the pieces
> ...





Lid said:


> First white-star, (I use the Mefferts colour scheme)
> Then F2L in any order
> Then the two red edges + the 3 pairs, any order
> Then the teal edge + the 2 pairs, any order
> ...



Thanks guys. An hour or so of untimed solves getting used to this way and just got a 4:18.04 Ao5 with a 3:45.22 Single.

Am wishing I had bought the ridged version though so might add that to my next order. Also loosened my stickerless Dayan as it was feeling quite good but had two screw pops! o suddenly mid solve a centre cap comes flying off with its screw washer, spring etc but the puzzle still holds together until the end of the alg I am on. Tightened it back up but have to confess the hardware doesnt seem the greatest quality, might just be me.


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## Selkie (Mar 28, 2016)

My crusade to replace all cubes with stickerless will be complete with this order just placed...

Moyu YuHu (Megaminx) // This is just to try as my DaYan stickerless is currently my main.
Moyu Aofu GT (7x7)
Moyu Aoshi (6x6)
Yuxin Qilin(3x3)
Yuxin (5X5)

Unboxing on arrival gents  ...


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## mafergut (Mar 28, 2016)

@Chris: Already chasing David and I, huh?  Don't tell me I will have to put down M2 to start practising Mega again  Bad news what you say about your Dayan Mega, I hope it's not a defective core or something like that, unless you really loosened it up A LOT.

Waiting for that unboxing. Gonna have to call you the stickerless guy


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## Isaac Lai (Mar 28, 2016)

@Selkie your original method is used by Balint Bodor and isn't too bad. However, what Lid, Mafergut, and most others (including me) use is Simon Westlund's order.


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## Selkie (Mar 28, 2016)

I prefer the method of Mafergut and others. It is encouraging me to block build rather than use 3x3 algs which aren't really optimised for Mega. Really enjoying solving it at the moment.

-------------

6x6 PB Single right out of nowhere 3:43.77, last PB was 3:58.xx!!


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## h2f (Mar 28, 2016)

First attempt of 6bld - after 20 minutes I could memo only both wings and obliques but I've made few mistakes with them. I gave up. I've learnt that I need more sighted memo.


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## kbrune (Mar 28, 2016)

@mafergut

I reached for my pyraminx and I can't find it either. Which reminded me that I took my 2x2, Pyra and a 3x3 with me in my wife's car. And they're still there. Missing 2x2 mystery solved! 2x2 and Pyra race will have to wait till tomorrow.

@selkie
Nice 6x6 time! I know you're faster then me in general. But where were your 7x7 and 6x6 times when you first solved them. I'm trying to guestimate where I may find myself once I get used to them.


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## mafergut (Mar 28, 2016)

kbrune said:


> @mafergut
> 
> I reached for my pyraminx and I can't find it either. Which reminded me that I took my 2x2, Pyra and a 3x3 with me in my wife's car. And they're still there. Missing 2x2 mystery solved! 2x2 and Pyra race will have to wait till tomorrow.
> 
> ...



Nice! You seem to be involved in all sorts of races. I just joined a couple more this week (2x2 and 4x4) and you are there as well and, also in a pyra race? Between the weekly competition and all the races I'm in, I'm starting to not have time for casual / untimed solving and for learning new things so maybe I will have to reconsider my practise schedule.


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## muchacho (Mar 28, 2016)

I've been away a couple of days, so congrats to Jason for that sub-15 and competition results, great solves... and Miguel for your M2 successes.

Chris, nice Mega averages.


I was able to do like 6 hours of untimed 2x2/3x3 solves for each of the past 3 days, I'll have to wait until tomorrow to see if that practice worked, right now there is too much smoke coming out of my head to see anything.


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## kbrune (Mar 28, 2016)

mafergut said:


> Nice! You seem to be involved in all sorts of races. I just joined a couple more this week (2x2 and 4x4) and you are there as well and, also in a pyra race? Between the weekly competition and all the races I'm in, I'm starting to not have time for casual / untimed solving and for learning new things so maybe I will have to reconsider my practise schedule.



Yeah I'm lucky in the sense that I have a lot of free time at work. I get most of the WC events done in 2 work days. Sometimes 3 or 4 depending how busy I get. I get interrupted alot but it works. So the extra race threads don't really take up alot of my home time. I don't do near enough untimed practice which I'm sure is the reason my progress is stunted in 3x3.


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## mafergut (Mar 28, 2016)

@Ken: yeah, I should do more untimed solves.

By the way, 1st sub 1:30 4x4 single and PB Ao12 1:46.xx. The single was 1:27.xx but it could have been like 1:20 because I got an Na perm and hesitated when starting to do my current 3x3 RUD PLL alg so I undid 3 moves and did my old lefty alg, which flows much more nicely on big cubes. Lost a ton of time


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## Jason Green (Mar 28, 2016)

Hey all, the elementary cube club is a go and we will be starting April 25th! I'd like your advice. For 2x2, is the easiest method for a new (young) cuber layer by layer? What about 3x3, do you think beginner's method is worth teaching over CFOP? F2L just always seemed as easy as learning to put in corners and then edges for the bottom two layers.

What other twisty puzzles would a youngster like (we may have kids aged 6 - 11 in here)? Pyraminx? I'm going to order several cubes to give to the school, maybe 6 QiYi Sails, 6 cheap 2x2s, and some Pyraminx? Anything else (Skewb??)?

All advice is appreciated!


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## muchacho (Mar 28, 2016)

I guess they should like Skewb and it's probably the easiest to learn/teach.

Maybe stickerless cubes so they can't damage the stickers?


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## mark49152 (Mar 28, 2016)

Hey I wonder what happened to Sneaklyfox, Kattenvrienden, and Pipkiksass?


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## Jason Green (Mar 28, 2016)

muchacho said:


> I guess they should like Skewb and probably is the easiest to learn/teach.
> 
> Maybe stickerless cubes so they can't damage the stickers?


Guess it's time to learn skewb then.


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## kbrune (Mar 28, 2016)

I'm considering starting a club in my city as well. I'll be following that topic for sure.

I was thinking of teaching cfop with f2l pairing instead of corner first then edge. But depending on age and skill level. They may be overwhelmed with f2l pairing. So I figured I would outline a few methods like roux, beginner LBL cfop and maybe another including the pros and cons. Then let people decide what they want to learn and and at what pace. 

Those were just thoughts bouncing around in my mind though.

As for 2x2. I'd say LBL is a good way to start since it's parallel to cfop learning. Ortega is a good option too though. Easy to build one colour during inspection. Not very many algs.


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## moralsh (Mar 28, 2016)

h2f said:


> First attempt of 6bld - after 20 minutes I could memo only both wings and obliques but I've made few mistakes with them. I gave up. I've learnt that I need more sighted memo.



I'm attempting the different kind of pieces separately, memo inner centers, solve inner centers, memo outer, solve outer, memo obliques and so on, it's easier to do it while watching tv or doing other stuff. I haven't yet tried the whole thing because the obliques still bug me although I'm getting better, maybe next weekend.

On 4 and 5 BLD memo is definitely getting better (4 and 11 minutes my last attempts) but execution still sucks (9:04 and 24:11), although that last one has had two huge lockups on centers that I don't know how I fixed and some recall problems. Execution is around 10-12 minutes normally which, as I said earlier, is dead slow. Will get better I hope.

I tried also a 2-5BLD relay on saturday and failed an unseen twisted corner on the 2x2  and the wings parity fix on the 5x5. I really need to stop messing stupid things xD


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## h2f (Mar 28, 2016)

moralsh said:


> I tried also a 2-5BLD relay on saturday and failed an unseen twisted corner on the 2x2  and the wings parity fix on the 5x5.



Your memo on 4x4 is around mine. Same my best memo in 5x5 are around 11 minutes.  I found doing whole solves on new cube (6x6) pushes my mind - I think when I do whole solve I find what types of elements are hard for me to recon. And it pushes me to memo more - in mbld I did 3 or 5 times max 7 cubes which is not many to start doing 6bld. In this solve first ones were wings (2 types) but after 5 minutes I've realized how to recon them. I've realized I need another memo order which must be other than in 5bld. In 5bld I memo: wings, midges, xcenters, +centers, corners and do it backwards. But in 6bld I think it's easier for me to memo: inner centers, obliques, x centers, wings, corners and do it in the same order.


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## mafergut (Mar 28, 2016)

Jason Green said:


> Hey all, the elementary cube club is a go [...] All advice is appreciated!



Hi Jason. How nice!!! You are going to enjoy a lot, I'm sure.

Regarding advice: I second the suggestion about cheap AND stickerless puzzles. I also think that Pyra and skewb are a must, because they are easy to solve. Problem is, not all the puzzles can be found in a cheap and stickerless variant.

- CB 2x2 is very nice and cheap and has bright stickerless shades
- Guanlong 3x3 is available in stickerless as well
- Not so sure about Pyra and skewb (I only know of the QiYi skewb in stickerless and it's not super-cheap and the CB Pyra I don't think can be bought in stickerless).

Regarding methods:
- For 2x2 I'd say Ortega is not that much in addition to LBL and I think it's worth it, at least for the older boys.
- For 3x3 if you think that CFOP will be too much and LBL can be a bit short you can dig into some intermediate methods like keyhole. Also, Roux is very intuitive and can be tought with just 2 pretty simple algs for CO and CP.
- For Pyra I'd go with basic LBL probably, which can be done with just two easy algs.
- For skewb Sarah's beginners is simple enough as well.


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## muchacho (Mar 28, 2016)

Roux with 9 algs is great, but with just 2 algs is not fun, maybe Roux with 2 look CMLL should better be tried once they know 2x2.


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## Jason Green (Mar 28, 2016)

mafergut said:


> Hi Jason. How nice!!! You are going to enjoy a lot, I'm sure.
> 
> Regarding advice: I second the suggestion about cheap AND stickerless puzzles. I also think that Pyra and skewb are a must, because they are easy to solve. Problem is, not all the puzzles can be found in a cheap and stickerless variant.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the advice. Guess maybe I should learn Roux, at least the two alg version. I'm not too worried about the stickers is the puzzles are cheap anyway. I better place my order today so I can learn skewb and pyra before we start!


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## mafergut (Mar 28, 2016)

Jason Green said:


> Thanks for the advice. Guess maybe I should learn Roux, at least the two alg version. I'm not too worried about the stickers is the puzzles are cheap anyway. I better place my order today so I can learn skewb and pyra before we start!



Then I would recommend CB Pyra and either SS or Lanlan skewb


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## kbrune (Mar 28, 2016)

@Jason

It's not hard to learn roux. I didn't learn any algs for it. I use my oll algs. Last six edges (L6E) can be done intuitively. The only part I struggle with is EO of L6E Now I'm sure it's not efficient for people who would use roux as their main strategy but you could easily introduce the basics and if someone liked roux enough they would eventually learn more advanced tricks on their own.


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## kbrune (Mar 28, 2016)

I'm pretty frustrated with results almost everywhere these days... all of a sudden my 4x4 times and over 1:40. 5x5 are 4:00. 2x2 is over 10 sec. Can't sub 5 mega.. sub 20 solves are fewer on 3x3. I don't understand.

Sorry to be a Debbie downer on here. Only place to vent!


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## mafergut (Mar 28, 2016)

kbrune said:


> I'm pretty frustrated with results almost everywhere these days... all of a sudden my 4x4 times and over 1:40. 5x5 are 4:00. 2x2 is over 10 sec. Can't sub 5 mega.. sub 20 solves are fewer on 3x3. I don't understand.
> 
> Sorry to be a Debbie downer on here. Only place to vent!



It happens to me at times and it's very frustrating indeed. I also come here to seek help or, at least, some comforting words. I hope you'll be back in good shape in a day or two.


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## Jason Green (Mar 28, 2016)

kbrune said:


> I'm pretty frustrated with results almost everywhere these days... all of a sudden my 4x4 times and over 1:40. 5x5 are 4:00. 2x2 is over 10 sec. Can't sub 5 mega.. sub 20 solves are fewer on 3x3. I don't understand.
> 
> Sorry to be a Debbie downer on here. Only place to vent!


Yes I have recently had decrease in my 3x3 also. It's gotten better, but I've still been on a plateau for that. 5x5 was fun for a few days dropping a minute each day, but I'm only down to about 6 mins and it has slowed. I'm enjoying all the exciting things going on with cubing for me right now, but wishing I could improve more also!


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## earth2dan (Mar 28, 2016)

kbrune said:


> I'm pretty frustrated with results almost everywhere these days... all of a sudden my 4x4 times and over 1:40. 5x5 are 4:00. 2x2 is over 10 sec. Can't sub 5 mega.. sub 20 solves are fewer on 3x3. I don't understand.
> 
> Sorry to be a Debbie downer on here. Only place to vent!


You're not alone. I've hardly had any time for cubing the last couple weeks and my times are all up too. I forgot a few new OLL's I'd recently learned as well because I didn't drill them enough...

It's frustrating doing timed solves and not seeing any progress. Some of the best advice I've ever been given when I'm down is to just put the timer away, slow down, and have fun. Spend a week just solving for fun, focusing on look ahead, technique, cross building, eliminating pauses, etc... and not worrying about times.

Sometimes I have to do that to remind myself this is a hobby I really enjoy, not a chore.


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## kbrune (Mar 28, 2016)

Thanks guys

You're right Dan. That's a good point. Good idea to put the timer away for a while. I'm gonna do that. Except for WC solves lol

I just won't put pressure on performance. Whatever happens happens.

I think I'm over cubing. My mind often gets foggy after a while. I should take more breaks.


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## newtonbase (Mar 28, 2016)

Day 1 of 5x5 practice. I'm sure I could be easily sub 4 global with the right practice but there's the issue. I managed maybe 6 solves and only 2 were timed. Back to work tomorrow so I'll have a lunchbreak to myself! Target is 6 timed solves with a couple under 5 mins.


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## ryuusei86 (Mar 29, 2016)

Oh wow, packages from both LighTake and The Cubicle were waiting for me today. No puzzles in the latter package, but from LighTake I had a GuoGuan YueXiao and FangShi JieYun, a Shengshou megaminx, and a Cyclone Boys 5x5, plus a few other doodads not worth mentioning.

As I expected, give or take some spring noise, out of the box the two 3x3s are crushing their DaYan competitors in my collection, and making my beloved TangLong sweat bullets. I'm a bit scared to lube them since they're so smooth, but I will check to see if they need any more washers installed.

I don't know how to solve a 5x5 yet, but my initial gut reaction is that it is better behaved in terms of the inner layers than my CB 4x4 was out of the box.

The megaminx is much smaller than I expected -- for some reason I always pictured them being gigantic -- but is still terrifying. The stickers leave a fair bit to be desired, and will be replaced shortly anyway.

I think I have my work cut out for me.


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## mafergut (Mar 29, 2016)

@Ryuusei86: Nah, the SS Mega is pretty small, you should take a look at the Gigaminx. That's a completely different beast that weights like 2 or 3 Megas  Well, there's also the Petaminx and Teraminx but I'm afraid of those  Anyway, the stickers in mine were perfectly fine. Is it quality or shades what you don't like?

Regarding solving a 5x5 you already know all you need to solve it. In fact you just need the 4x4 OLL parity alg done a bit differently to fix the parity on the last edge when needed and you are all set. My CB 5x5 was also quite nice out of the box but it lacks a bit in terms of corner cutting and my accuracy is not that great so I lock up a lot with it. Also having the external layers a bit larger than the internal ones would be a plus for the 3x3 stage. That's why I just ordered a Bochuang


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## MarcelP (Mar 29, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> Hey I wonder what happened to Sneaklyfox, Kattenvrienden, and Pipkiksass?



I have met Kattenvriendin a few months ago at a competition. She did not compete, but came just to watch. She still knows how to solve a 3x3 but her times are not as good as it used to be. She is just not into cubing anymore I guess. I also wonder what happened to Sneaklyfox. She was faster than all of us here  Too bad she left Speedsolving.com


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## Selkie (Mar 29, 2016)

kbrune said:


> @selkie
> Nice 6x6 time! I know you're faster then me in general. But where were your 7x7 and 6x6 times when you first solved them. I'm trying to guestimate where I may find myself once I get used to them.



First timed 6x6 I think were around 10 minutes but that was a number of years ago on a V-Cube which was terrible out of the box. Even after breaking in I still modded it. Think I got down to ~6m quite quickly and I currently average about 4:20

7x7 again V-Cube and I believe my first solves were about 14m but got down to 9m pretty quickly. Not my favorite event so still average about 7:30 but I am practicing it more.



Jason Green said:


> Hey all, the elementary cube club is a go and we will be starting April 25th! I'd like your advice. For 2x2, is the easiest method for a new (young) cuber layer by layer? What about 3x3, do you think beginner's method is worth teaching over CFOP? F2L just always seemed as easy as learning to put in corners and then edges for the bottom two layers.
> 
> What other twisty puzzles would a youngster like (we may have kids aged 6 - 11 in here)? Pyraminx? I'm going to order several cubes to give to the school, maybe 6 QiYi Sails, 6 cheap 2x2s, and some Pyraminx? Anything else (Skewb??)?
> 
> All advice is appreciated!



My vote would be Pyraminx and starting with beginner method given how quickly they can grasp it with an option to move to intuitive F2L.



kbrune said:


> I'm pretty frustrated with results almost everywhere these days... all of a sudden my 4x4 times and over 1:40. 5x5 are 4:00. 2x2 is over 10 sec. Can't sub 5 mega.. sub 20 solves are fewer on 3x3. I don't understand.
> 
> Sorry to be a Debbie downer on here. Only place to vent!



Unfortunately it happens. Happened for me on 3x3 last week. Persevere and the times will come back soon enough.



MarcelP said:


> I have met Kattenvriendin a few months ago at a competition. She did not compete, but came just to watch. She still knows how to solve a 3x3 but her times are not as good as it used to be. She is just not into cubing anymore I guess. I also wonder what happened to Sneaklyfox. She was faster than all of us here  Too bad she left Speedsolving.com



Indeed she had some great advice!


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## mark49152 (Mar 29, 2016)

MarcelP said:


> I have met Kattenvriendin a few months ago at a competition. She did not compete, but came just to watch. She still knows how to solve a 3x3 but her times are not as good as it used to be. She is just not into cubing anymore I guess. I also wonder what happened to Sneaklyfox. She was faster than all of us here  Too bad she left Speedsolving.com


Nice that Kattenvrienden came also and is still interested enough to watch . Sneaklyfox was an inspiration. How anyone with 5 little kids can find time to be that good at cubing is beyond me.


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## muchacho (Mar 29, 2016)

PBs on 2x2,

Ao5: 5.659 (it was 5.784 from March 20)
Ao12: 6.183 (was 6.541 since December 3)

12. 5.952 R U F' U' R2 U R' F2 R'
11. 6.479 F U2 F R2 U' F' R F U'
10. 7.024 R' F2 R' U R2 F' R' U F2 U'
9. 7.071 U F2 U R U2 R' U F R
8. 6.488 R2 U R' U R' F2 U R U2
7. 5.775 F2 U R' F2 R' F R' U' R2 U2
6. 8.176 R' U2 R2 F U' F2 U' F2 R'
5. 5.841 U2 F2 U R' U' R2 U2 F
4. 6.071 R' F R2 U2 F2 U' R U'
3. 5.009 R U2 F' R' F2 U2 R F U'
2. 5.376 R2 U2 R' U R2 U F2 R F
1. 5.761 F R2 U' F2 U2 R' F' U R'

First 5 solves are the Ao5 PB.


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## h2f (Mar 29, 2016)

Nice and congrats.

I've almost finished my 3style list. In fact edge comms are so easy and based on few tricks from advanced M2 plus few new like Uw/Uw' setup or z/z' rotation.


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## ryuusei86 (Mar 29, 2016)

mafergut said:


> Gigaminx


Oh right, that's probably what I was thinking of. You couldn't even give me one of those as a present. I'd run screaming from the room. 



mafergut said:


> Anyway, the stickers in mine were perfectly fine. Is it quality or shades what you don't like? [Shengshou Megaminx]


Some of the stickers were peeling, so I'd say mainly the quality, though I will be swapping them out for new colors too. I spent an unconscionable amount of time on the Cubicle website picking out Megaminx colors, long before I ever owned one. Somehow I get the feeling that I won't have to explain myself to this group on the matter. 

I will be setting up the JieYun and YueXiao to try to get rid of the spring noise, and restickering them with my somewhat weird preferred shades. I'm looking forward to a grand 3x3 smackdown, perhaps this weekend, to see whether I can decide what order to place them all in.


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## mafergut (Mar 29, 2016)

Wow this scramble!!!!

U2 R2 F L2 B2 R2 D2 F L2 B' L2 R D2 F' L2 B U' B D2 R'

I was doing color neutral warm-up for my race to sub-X full CN when I got it. Of course I had to redo the scramble and try it with white cross. There is a fairly easy x-cross plus two other already made pairs that seem preservable or, at least easily trackable.

Got 11.40 which would be my full-step PB by more than 1 second, but, of course, I'm not counting it.

z2 y'
R' D' R' B' y' R' F R // X-cross
L' U' L R U R' // F2L 2
y' R U' R' L' U L // F2L 3 & 4
OLL + A-perm

EDIT: After some retries I got it down to 8.53  I don't want to try more because it's easy to get sub-8 and I dont' want to cry over the lost PB


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## MarcelP (Mar 29, 2016)

mafergut said:


> Wow this scramble!!!!
> 
> U2 R2 F L2 B2 R2 D2 F L2 B' L2 R D2 F' L2 B U' B D2 R'
> 
> ...



NIce, I am going to try the scramble tomorrow with daylight


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## mafergut (Mar 29, 2016)

Again, Chris, Grzegorz and I fighting for a place in the top ten at weekly comp and, again, I came in last of the 3 
My 7x7 will not arrive soon enough and I will also need a 6x6. If you keep pushing like that I will have to buy a clock, magic and master magic 
And maybe even learn a proper SQ-1 method and finish learning 4BLD... and I will also get a leave of absence at work to be able to finish all those events. At my current big cube speeds 7x7 might take me days to complete the Ao5 

Congrats, Chris for getting to the top 10 and to Alberto for winning again. Hey man, aren't you tired of winning? This week I beat you at MTS, that's good motivation  I know that next week you'll crush me at that.


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## h2f (Mar 29, 2016)

mafergut said:


> Congrats, Chris for getting to the top 10 and to Alberto for winning again. Hey man, aren't you tired of winning? This week I beat you at MTS, that's good motivation  I know that next week you'll crush me at that.



I didnt notice that we are so close taking 10th, 11th and 12th place.  I'm hoping for better places in bld events in next week.


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## mafergut (Mar 29, 2016)

h2f said:


> I didnt notice that we are so close taking 10th, 11th and 12th place.  I'm hoping for better places in bld events in next week.



Yeah, I know this is just illusory. As soon as you have a decent week at BLD you will score some more points. The funny thing is, though, that in these events that not that many people do, most your points come just from participating, not from beating other people. Not sure if they award extra points for winning / podium.

Anyway, this is just a funny comment, of course. You both are, overall, much stronger cubers than I am.


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## muchacho (Mar 29, 2016)

How are points scored there?


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## h2f (Mar 29, 2016)

muchacho said:


> How are points scored there?



Here you are: https://www.speedsolving.com/forum/showthread.php?49416-Weekly-Competition-Overall-Scoring-Rules


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## newtonbase (Mar 29, 2016)

Another vote for pyraminx for the kids. Easy to learn but there's lots you can learn to progress and it still works a bit like a 3x3.

Got some 5x5 practice in at lunchtime. Mainly low 5 mins but a couple of of sub 5s too (and a 6:00!). My edge location is appalling. I swear I wasted at least 20s finding a single one on a few occasions. 

My nephew who got his first solve less than a week ago already has sub 1 min solves and is pretty much colour neutral.


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## muchacho (Mar 29, 2016)

h2f said:


> Here you are: https://www.speedsolving.com/forum/showthread.php?49416-Weekly-Competition-Overall-Scoring-Rules


Thanks, it seems a fair system. I'll join the WC.


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## ryuusei86 (Mar 29, 2016)

mafergut said:


> Wow this scramble!!!!
> 
> U2 R2 F L2 B2 R2 D2 F L2 B' L2 R D2 F' L2 B U' B D2 R'



I solved it in about six minutes using the Roux method. I am unstoppable. Come at me bro.


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## mafergut (Mar 29, 2016)

Wow! your nephew!!!!
I've spent most of this evening saying wow but, I tought my 12-year-old son to solve the cube and he took some weeks until he was able to get sub-1min solves.


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## newtonbase (Mar 29, 2016)

mafergut said:


> Wow! your nephew!!!!
> I've spent most of this evening saying wow but, I tought my 12-year-old son to solve the cube and he took some weeks until he was able to get sub-1min solves.



I always thought he could be good if he decided he wanted to be but the progress has surprised me. Especially as he's done most of it by himself. He still only knows 2 OLLs and 2 PLLs and he spams Sexy Move to insert corners.


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## mafergut (Mar 29, 2016)

That's even more impressive! I have given a 3x3 and a 2x2 as presents to one of my son's friends in the hopes that he gets interested in cubing... and brings my son with him, as I failed to keep him interested for long. As soon as he got to 40-50 seconds he got bored... just when things were getting interested. He was able of doing the 3 basic F2L cases fairly decently, plus 2L OLL and halfway through 2L PLL.


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## newtonbase (Mar 29, 2016)

Just been told that he's figured out 2x2 by himself too. I'm skyping him tomorrow. Maybe he'll give me some tips.


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## Jason Green (Mar 29, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> Another vote for pyraminx for the kids. Easy to learn but there's lots you can learn to progress and it still works a bit like a 3x3.
> 
> Got some 5x5 practice in at lunchtime. Mainly low 5 mins but a couple of of sub 5s too (and a 6:00!). My edge location is appalling. I swear I wasted at least 20s finding a single one on a few occasions.
> 
> My nephew who got his first solve less than a week ago already has sub 1 min solves and is pretty much colour neutral.



Definitely going to get pyras and skewbs. I watched some tutorials last night and I'm ready to play with them too!

Awesome for your nephew!


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## kbrune (Mar 29, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> Another vote for pyraminx for the kids. Easy to learn but there's lots you can learn to progress and it still works a bit like a 3x3.
> 
> Got some 5x5 practice in at lunchtime. Mainly low 5 mins but a couple of of sub 5s too (and a 6:00!). My edge location is appalling. I swear I wasted at least 20s finding a single one on a few occasions.
> 
> My nephew who got his first solve less than a week ago already has sub 1 min solves and is pretty much colour neutral.



I have the same problem with edge pieces. Sometimes it feels like an eternity has passed before I locate one. It's not quite as bad as it used to be but still plagues me. 

Lol @ maferguts post. I'm tempted to buy a clock for that reason as well. The WC is responsible for my progress in events I've never tried before. It's great for motivation!


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## kbrune (Mar 29, 2016)

I was checking my cube count (I added 3 new ones this week) and thought.. I wish I was that age again! 

@everyone
If you're age was the amount of cubes that you own. How old are you? I'm back to being a hormone raging 18 year old who thinks of nothing but satisfying his next impulse. 

Feel free to make fun of me if you consider my little game retarded lol


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## earth2dan (Mar 29, 2016)

kbrune said:


> I was checking my cube count (I added 3 new ones this week) and thought.. I wish I was that age again!
> 
> @everyone
> If you're age was the amount of cubes that you own. How old are you? I'm back to being a hormone raging 18 year old who thinks of nothing but satisfying his next impulse.
> ...



Haha, I'm at least 75 then... Honestly I haven't counted my collection in a long time. My niece came to visit last year and said I had over 50 on my shelf in my home office. I've purchased several since then and I've got... 14 on my desk in front of me here at work.

And I've got 7 or 8 more on the way from a couple orders that are taking fooorrreevvverrr to arrive.


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## h2f (Mar 29, 2016)

mafergut said:


> . You both are, overall, much stronger cubers than I am.



I dont agree. You do other events than me. And you them much better than me.


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## mark49152 (Mar 29, 2016)

kbrune said:


> @everyone
> If you're age was the amount of cubes that you own. How old are you?


Dead. Or otherwise in the Guinness book of records...


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## Jason Green (Mar 29, 2016)

kbrune said:


> I was checking my cube count (I added 3 new ones this week) and thought.. I wish I was that age again!
> 
> @everyone
> If you're age was the amount of cubes that you own. How old are you? I'm back to being a hormone raging 18 year old who thinks of nothing but satisfying his next impulse.
> ...


I just happened to count mine the other day, not that I have a ton. 10 3*3, 1 each 2*2, 4*4, 5*5, so 13.


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## newtonbase (Mar 29, 2016)

Closing in on retirement.


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## mafergut (Mar 29, 2016)

I'm going to become 46 as soon as my new Aofu GT arrives!!! It's funny because I bought it as a birthday present... for my 46th birthday, which happens to be... soon. Then I'll become 49 all of a sudden as soon as my next order arrives


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## Shaky Hands (Mar 29, 2016)

Without counting, I'm still younger than I really am. Feels good.


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## APdRF (Mar 30, 2016)

mafergut said:


> Congrats, Chris for getting to the top 10 and to Alberto for winning again. Hey man, aren't you tired of winning? This week I beat you at MTS, that's good motivation  I know that next week you'll crush me at that.



You always beat me at something! Congrats to you both too 

And I'm nearly 200 years old... xD


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## Jason Green (Mar 30, 2016)

I placed my order for the school. 2 SS Skewbs, 3 YJ GuanPo, 3 Yuxin Fire Kylin, and 2 CB Pyraminx. I saved about $13 using Cubezz instead of TheCubicle this time. Every puzzle was cheaper except the 3x3 which I could have gotten the QiYi Sail cheaper, but I preferred to have a single order to worry about getting in time.

I hope the turnout is so good that we do not have nearly enough puzzles, we will see.


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## Jason Green (Mar 30, 2016)

kbrune said:


> @Jason
> 
> It's not hard to learn roux. I didn't learn any algs for it. I use my oll algs. Last six edges (L6E) can be done intuitively. The only part I struggle with is EO of L6E Now I'm sure it's not efficient for people who would use roux as their main strategy but you could easily introduce the basics and if someone liked roux enough they would eventually learn more advanced tricks on their own.



I did watch a tutorial on Roux, yeah it's a simple enough concept. I would have to hack at my L6E for sure, it would probably take me 2 minutes to do a solve.


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## kbrune (Mar 30, 2016)

Jason Green said:


> I did watch a tutorial on Roux, yeah it's a simple enough concept. I would have to hack at my L6E for sure, it would probably take me 2 minutes to do a solve.




yeah it takes me well over a minute to use roux. I rarely use it. It's fun to use different techniques once in a while.


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## muchacho (Mar 30, 2016)

So I'm 24 years old (I thought I was younger), and will be almost 30 in a few weeks, I ordered a Dayan megaminx in black and stickerless apart from the Shengshou one, a Guansu 4x4, and an elephant shaped 2x2 for a present.


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## mafergut (Mar 30, 2016)

h2f said:


> I dont agree. You do other events than me. And you them much better than me.



But those events I do are easy enough to learn if you so decide. Not sure which ones you're referring, though. Meanwhile your prowess with BLD events is something that takes years to achieve. By the way, today I used my commute to do a couple untimed 3BLD. One off by 3 edges, the second a success  And regarding Chris, his speeds at 3x3 up to 6x6 are something that will also take me years to get close to.



kbrune said:


> yeah it takes me well over a minute to use roux. I rarely use it. It's fun to use different techniques once in a while.



I learned Roux a while ago but did not practice for too long. I managed to get barely sub 1 minute with some 4x times or so and it was a lot of fun. Might practise again... some day.



muchacho said:


> So I'm 24 years old (I thought I was younger), and will be almost 30 in a few weeks, I ordered a Dayan megaminx in black and stickerless apart from the Shengshou one, a Guansu 4x4, and an elephant shaped 2x2 for a present.



It happened to me when I counted them yesterday. I was like... 46?????? I didn't think I had that many already. Have I understood you well? Have you ordered a dayan mega in black and ANOTHER in stickerless? Yesterday I tried again my Yuhu and, with the cube in hand it's so unstable and I generate misalignments without wanting with the holding hand that cause lockups but for LL with the cube on the table it is so much more forgiving than the SS that the corner orientation is a breeze. If I had a puzzle that was as forgiving as the Yuhu and as stable as the SS my times would surely improve. I'm hoping the Dayan is that puzzle


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## h2f (Mar 30, 2016)

mafergut said:


> But those events I do are easy enough to learn if you so decide. Not sure which ones you're referring, though.




2x2, 3x3, OH, MTS, Mega... This week you were better from me in skewb and FMC...


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## muchacho (Mar 30, 2016)

mafergut said:


> It happened to me when I counted them yesterday. I was like... 46?????? I didn't think I had that many already. Have I understood you well? Have you ordered a dayan mega in black and ANOTHER in stickerless? Yesterday I tried again my Yuhu and, with the cube in hand it's so unstable and I generate misalignments without wanting with the holding hand that cause lockups but for LL with the cube on the table it is so much more forgiving than the SS that the corner orientation is a breeze. If I had a puzzle that was as forgiving as the Yuhu and as stable as the SS my times would surely improve. I'm hoping the Dayan is that puzzle



Yeah, the Yuhu once it's on the table is not bad.

I'm expecting the Shengshou, after being modded and broke in, will be the better one, but I want to try the Dayan also and probably will mod it too.

The stickerless Dayan does not have a black side, there will probably be some colours that are too similar for me and I can replace one of them with black. If even after that I have problems with colours and the Dayan is better than the Shengshou (for which I will probably use stickers although I ordered some tiles) I'll use the black Dayan, BTW I think the Shengshou I ordered was white, maybe I should have bought a white Dayan also


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## mafergut (Mar 30, 2016)

h2f said:


> 2x2, 3x3, OH, MTS, Mega... This week you were better from me in skewb and FMC...



Okay, okay, I get the point but at most of those I have just a slight advantage, meanwhile you have a massive experience with BLD events which require many abilities to be very well coordinated, as I'm just starting to discover. The skewb and FMC were just lucky and you'll beat me next time, I'm sure. 



muchacho said:


> Yeah, the Yuhu once it's on the table is not bad.
> 
> I'm expecting the Shengshou, after being modded and broke in, will be the better one, but I want to try the Dayan also and probably will mod it too.
> 
> The stickerless Dayan does not have a black side [...] maybe I should have bought a white Dayan also



I'm sure the SS, once modded, will be the best of the three but the Dayan will have to make do, at least for me. Hope you can find a good configuration with your Dayans


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## muchacho (Mar 30, 2016)

3x3 mo100 PB: 23.959 (old PB was 24.917 from 16 days ago)

It was a very nice 105 solves session that ended with an almost PB single (15.744) 

I love the Weilong!



Spoiler: mo100 times/scrambles



100. 15.744 U2 L2 D' B2 F2 D B2 R2 U L2 D R' D2 L2 U B2 U2 L F' L D
24.599 R2 U' L2 D B2 F2 D' L2 U' B2 U' L R2 U2 F R2 U' L B D U'
26.607 D2 R2 F2 U' F2 R2 U' L2 U R2 D' F D B' R' B' D F U' F2 D'
19.895 F2 D2 F2 L2 F2 U2 L2 U2 L2 F2 D' L' B D R' B' L B2 F2 L' F2
21.906 D2 L2 U' R2 B2 F2 D B2 D' R2 U L B' F2 U B F2 R2 D U F' U
21.055 R2 D' L2 D' F2 D' L2 U2 R2 F2 U' L' B' U' L2 U' F R' D' L2
21.623 B2 R2 U B2 R2 U F2 R2 D L2 D' L' U2 R F2 D' B' D2 F U2 L U2
22.207 B2 R2 L2 U2 B2 D R2 D L2 D R2 B' D' B2 L2 U F2 D' R' L'
25.703 U2 R2 U R2 F2 L2 U F2 U F2 R D B L2 F L' F2 L2 D' R2 D'
27.968 R2 U' F2 R2 D' F2 D' B2 F2 U' B2 R' D U' F' D' B U2 R' F L U2
21.158 B2 F2 U F2 D' B2 D U B2 U' R2 F' L' B' F R2 F2 D' U2 L2 B2
22.664 L2 D' R2 B2 D' R2 B2 L2 U L2 F2 L' D2 U R B' U L2 D' U' F2 U2
18.542 R2 D' R2 D2 R2 B2 L2 D' F2 D' L' F2 D2 B2 D' B' D' R2 U' L' U2
22.063 B2 R2 U L2 D' L2 B2 D B2 R2 U' B D' U B' F' U2 B' U' L D U'
28.949 L2 D U2 L2 D' R2 U' R2 B2 U' R' U B R2 L U' B2 R B L D'
22.983 R2 L2 B2 U' L2 D B2 U' F2 L2 U2 R' D' L' D F' U2 R2 B' U' L' U'
23.814	 R2 L2 D2 F2 D' L2 D' L2 U2 L2 U' B U' F2 R2 D B R2 B2 L' U2 L2
26.055 D' B2 U' F2 R2 U2 L2 D' B2 U' R' U2 B' D2 F2 L2 D' R B F2 U'
27.718 U' B2 D R2 U B2 D' L2 B2 L2 U B L' D F' U' B R' L2 F' U
21.382 D2 U B2 U' R2 B2 F2 U' F2 D2 U2 F' D' U R F' L F' D R
23.670 D' F2 L2 U F2 L2 F2 L2 F2 R2 L2 B' L' U B2 D2 L' D2 B' R' L U
24.647 L2 D2 L2 F2 R2 D' U' R2 D F2 U F U' L' F' R U' L' U' L D' F'
20.422 D2 R2 F2 D' B2 D U R2 B2 D2 U' B' U' L' B2 F' D L F2 L' U'
25.414 R2 D R2 L2 F2 D L2 D' B2 L2 D2 F' R D B F' R2 D U2 L B U'
24.910	+2	U F2 U' R2 U2 F2 R2 U R2 D R2 F U R L' D L2 U' F' D2 R2 L2
25.630 D' R2 F2 U2 F2 U2 L2 F2 D L2 U R' F2 R2 L D L' B' U B R
23.366 U' F2 L2 B2 D F2 D2 U' L2 F2 U2 B U' F' D R' U' L2 B2 R2 U'
21.734 F2 U R2 L2 D2 L2 U' L2 D F2 L' R2 F2 R U L' F R2 F2
25.702 L2 D' L2 U' R2 D' F2 L2 B2 R2 D' B D' U' B F R2 B' R B' R D'
24.750 U2 F2 L2 U R2 U2 F2 U B2 U2 F2 R' B' R2 U R L' B U' B F D'
25.549 U2 B2 F2 R2 D B2 D' R2 B2 D2 L2 F' U2 L' U2 F' R2 D U' R L'
22.775 R2 U B2 U2 R2 D B2 R2 B2 R2 D' B' U2 B' L U B D' R2 D2 R
23.022 F2 U' F2 U' L2 U L2 U R2 D U L F2 L2 B' L' B' U2 R2 F U'
26.646 B2 U2 L2 D' L2 D R2 L2 U F2 L' D2 L2 B' R' F2 L2 U' F D2 U2
19.824 B2 R2 F2 D L2 D L2 B2 D2 B2 U2 L' B U2 L D2 R B2 D' B D2
19.543 L2 D' B2 U L2 F2 L2 U B2 F2 U' F' L' D' F U' B F2 U R2 U' L'
22.095 D2 U' R2 D B2 U2 B2 F2 U' F2 R2 F U R L2 B2 L B2 D' B D2
34.717 L2 U R2 L2 B2 U R2 L2 B2 L2 D B L F' D B' D2 U R' U F' D2
21.159 U' L2 D' B2 U' F2 U R2 D2 F2 U' F' L' F2 L2 U' B U' B D2 F U2
18.752 L2 D' L2 D B2 D2 F2 L2 U R2 U2 B R U2 F U' B R2 U2 R L' D2
24.527 L2 B2 U2 R2 B2 D' F2 D' L2 U' L2 B U R F U' B F2 D R D2 B2
28.958 D L2 D R2 D L2 F2 U2 R2 B2 D2 B' D L2 B R' L' D2 B R D'
26.590 R2 D B2 D F2 D' F2 L2 D' L2 F2 L' F2 U F R2 F U B2 D L U'
24.438 D' R2 U' L2 B2 L2 F2 U2 R2 U' F R' U' B D2 B D2 R F L'
24.982 B2 R2 U' R2 U' R2 L2 D L2 U F' U' F2 R L2 D2 B' F U L'
26.102 D' R2 B2 D2 U' F2 L2 U' L2 B2 F2 R U' F' R2 D R2 B2 L D2 R2
24.231 U2 F2 L2 B2 L2 D2 U' R2 L2 B2 U' L B D2 R2 U' F2 R' B2 L' F'
18.520 D B2 D' B2 R2 U2 R2 D R2 B2 R2 B' D' B' D2 R' B' F' R' D2 F'
23.047 U' F2 U F2 R2 U R2 B2 R2 D U' L' F U R' U' B2 L2 D L B' U2
17.702 F2 D2 R2 U L2 U R2 B2 L2 B2 U2 L B' R F2 L' D2 U' F2 D U2
26.782 D' L2 U' F2 L2 U' F2 D F2 L2 U' R D2 U2 R' L2 B' R' U' R2 F
26.734 B2 F2 D' U' F2 R2 U' B2 L2 D U2 R' U' L' U' F D2 F' R2 U2 F2
23.151 D' R2 D' R2 L2 F2 R2 U R2 L2 D' B' U L F' U2 B U' R' D' L
27.750 D B2 U B2 R2 U2 B2 R2 D U' F' R D2 F2 U2 F' L' U' R D U'
21.560 D R2 U' B2 F2 R2 U F2 U B2 D R' F' R2 U B' R' L' U' B U
23.422 D L2 D' L2 D F2 U' L2 U B2 F2 R' B2 F' D2 L' D R' D' B L
26.014 U' R2 D F2 U2 B2 U' B2 R2 U2 B' R' F D' B2 U F' R2 B' L'
32.465 R2 D2 L2 F2 D U F2 U' L2 F2 U2 F R' L2 U B2 R' F R L2 F U
23.967 R2 F2 D2 F2 D L2 U' L2 F2 D' B2 L' U2 B L F' R' D B' L' D L2
19.246 D2 F2 U' L2 D R2 F2 L2 F2 D2 L2 F' U B2 L2 F U F U' L' F U2
24.608 R2 F2 R2 D2 U R2 U' F2 U B2 F2 R B' U' L2 F D' U2 R' F' R
27.527 U2 B2 D' F2 U B2 U' B2 R2 U R2 F U2 R2 L U' B' D2 U2 R' D' B'
28.325 L2 D2 L2 U B2 L2 B2 L2 F2 U' R2 B L D' B D' B' U R U' L2
23.943 B2 D' B2 U2 B2 U R2 L2 B2 D' L2 B' R2 F R' L' U F R' B L' U'
27.239 F2 L2 U2 L2 U2 F2 D L2 B2 D L2 B L2 B2 D2 L F R' D' F2 L D
24.943 D' B2 U2 R2 F2 U2 R' B' D' U B' L U2 L2 F' D'
18.520 B2 D2 B2 L2 U' B2 F2 D' L2 F2 U2 L U2 F D' U' L2 F' R2 B' L'
24.791 R2 D2 F2 D B2 L2 D B2 U L2 U L' U F2 L2 U' R F' R2 U' L'
24.207 B2 D B2 R2 L2 D R2 U' B2 U2 B2 L B' F2 R' U L' B F2 R U' L'
30.894 B2 R2 D2 F2 U R2 D' R2 L2 U' R2 B' L D' R B2 F D' R D U' R'
20.072 U L2 U L2 B2 D' F2 D' B2 U2 L' D' B2 L F' R U2 F U' B U'
24.205 R2 U' L2 D2 R2 U' B2 F2 L2 B2 L' U' B L' U2 F R' B' U F D'
23.199 F2 D2 F2 D F2 U B2 L2 D' L2 U B' L' F2 R' U' R2 L' B2 D F'
25.334 D2 B2 D B2 F2 D' B2 L2 U' R2 U R' U L' B' F2 L U2 F U L' D'
24.606 D2 B2 U L2 D L2 U R2 D B2 D' R' D F' R2 B' D' R' U2 B' D'
24.527 U B2 F2 U2 R2 D2 U R2 L2 F2 U L F2 R D B F U F' D2 U' L2
22.054 D2 R2 F2 D B2 D B2 L2 U2 L2 D2 L' U2 B R F' D2 L' B' D2 F2
30.006 U' R2 B2 F2 D' R2 D2 B2 D' U' B' R D2 F2 U R' B R2 L
30.559 D B2 F2 D U2 B2 L2 B2 L2 U2 F R2 L2 U' L F2 U' L'
25.407 D' R2 F2 L2 U' R2 D2 F2 U F B2 L' U' B' U B R' B F2
20.831 U F2 R2 L2 D' F2 U' B2 L2 F2 U' B L B R2 U B2 D2 L' F D2
22.894 B2 F2 U' B2 D' F2 U' R2 F2 D U B' R U R L' D R' B2 U2 R2
21.536 U' F2 D U2 F2 L2 B2 L2 D2 B2 R' U2 B' D F L B' D2 B' R2
19.128 D' L2 B2 F2 D' L2 U' B2 D' F2 U R F' R' L' U2 F2 R2 D B' F2 U'
26.815 D B2 R2 U F2 U' R2 U R2 F2 U' B' L B U2 B' D2 L F D' F' D2
24.159 F2 L2 F2 U R2 D' B2 U2 R2 D' U' R' D' U' B' R' B L' D' F' L' U
22.137 L2 U' B2 R2 D L2 U' R2 L2 U R2 F' U L D' B' R U L U B' D2
22.877 D' L2 U2 F2 D' L2 D2 B2 D' F2 U2 B D R' D B2 R' D B F'
23.606 B2 U R2 U2 B2 U R2 D B2 D R2 B L' D B2 F' U' B R D' F
27.526 L2 D U R2 F2 U' B2 D' B2 U2 R2 B U2 B' L' B U' B2 R2 F2 L D'
26.031 D' R2 D' R2 U R2 F2 U2 B2 D B' R D2 R' D U B2 L' U' F' D'
22.382 D L2 D' R2 F2 D2 U2 F2 L2 U' F' D R L D F' L2 B R2 F2 D'
19.720 D' U F2 D B2 F2 R2 B2 F2 U' R2 F D R U B' F2 L2 U' R F2 D
21.485 R2 D2 F2 L2 F2 L2 F2 L2 D R2 D' F' L2 B U B' U B' U2 R' U'
23.943 U R2 F2 U F2 L2 D U2 R2 U2 F2 R B' U' L2 B U L' D2 U' L2 U'
24.799 R2 L2 D2 L2 D B2 D B2 U' B2 U L B R' U' B' D' R2 B' U2 R
24.583 L2 U R2 L2 F2 U' R2 B2 U' B2 L2 F' U2 L2 U L B' U2 F' R2 F'
24.582 D' F2 L2 F2 U B2 D' B2 L2 U' R2 B F' R F U2 R' L2 F' L' F U'
21.384 U' B2 L2 U R2 F2 D B2 D2 R2 U' F D2 R2 L' D' B' D2 R2 D' R' U'
1. 21.390 B2 L2 U2 F2 U' F2 L2 U2 B2 U F2 L' F2 D' B' D L2 U2 F L D


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## Selkie (Mar 30, 2016)

Wow so many posts, can't keep up but that is not a bad thing. What an active bunch of oldies we are 

*@Age By Puzzle Count*

I'd need carbon dating to be fair or have a name ending in saurus  Hehe

Have best part of 200 puzzles in the loft and perhaps 100 in my study. Waiting on about 12 on order too!

*@WC*

Thanks. It took a lot to break into top 10. I completely messed up match the scramble so had to force myself to do some 2BLD. Should have also put down the FMC DNF. Had 21 move L5C skeleton at about 40 minutes and messed up bad with my insertions and ran out of time.

*@Megaminx Race*

Someone posted a good intermediate LL order in this thread recently. cannot remember who it was but was in last couple of weeks. Cannot find it. Time to improve upon my LL, especially CO as that can take too much time with comms.

PB single, ao5 and single in a session just now...

Single: 3:15.76
Ao5: 3:53.20
Ao12: 3:59.65


number of times: 12/12
best time: 3:15.76
worst time: 4:18.87

current avg5: 3:59.34 (σ = 10.64)
best avg5: 3:53.20 (σ = 25.23)

current avg12: 3:59.65 (σ = 15.20)
best avg12: 3:59.65 (σ = 15.20)

session avg: 3:59.65 (σ = 15.20)
session mean: 3:57.59

4:03.27, 4:05.26, 4:18.87, 3:51.03, 3:15.76, 4:16.21, 4:07.36, 4:08.17, 3:24.07, 3:47.52, 4:11.25, 4:02.32


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## muchacho (Mar 30, 2016)

I suppose it was this post by Isaac Lai about megaminx LL:

https://www.speedsolving.com/forum/...olland-here)&p=1159773&viewfull=1#post1159773


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## ryuusei86 (Mar 30, 2016)

@size of everyone's collections per age -- this makes me feel a lot better since even including my non-WCA puzzles I'm probably still in college or even high school. 

As for my eight (gasp!) 3x3s, the YueXiao has indeed leapfrogged over my TangLong and will be the 3x3 that sits right by my computer monitor in easy reach. Besides those two I have a Cyclone Boys (currently my "work 3x3"), a GuHong v1, a LunHui, a ZhanChi, a GuanLong, and a JieYun. The JieYun especially intrigues me because of its appearance and construction, but has pretty bad spring noise. I suppose I'll have to get it apart somehow and set it up better. That will leave me with a whopping six 3x3s that I suppose I could sell or trade. But really, how hard could it be to come up with six sticker mods? (Not to mention more involved mods as I am no good with tools.)

- Rubenking cube <-- probably the TangLong as I have an extra set of stickers for it anyway
- "3x3 For Dummies" with only three sticker colors (I want to do the same with one of my 4x4s)
- "3x3 On Hard Mode" with twelve sticker colors (I'm guessing there are multiple ways to do this)
- one restickered using my six other Megaminx colors that I haven't used on a 3x3 yet
- one with those tiles from Cubesmith that I hear so much about
- Oliver has intriguing picture cube stickers from what I've heard

That's six right there, and I haven't even given the rest of you a chance to suggest others, which I'm sure I've left out a bunch (not including the one-color joke cube).

There are still certain trades I'd consider, especially with you guys since I feel like I know you somewhat. But even if not, it looks like I can find a use for all of these cubes.


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## newtonbase (Mar 30, 2016)

Spoke to my nephew on Skype this afternoon. After 5 days of 3x3 and 1 day of 2x2 he has PBs of 36s and 15s respectively. 3x3 global is 1:01. He was saying he can't find enough practice time due to swimming, football, cubs and karate!


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## kbrune (Mar 30, 2016)

That's impressive! He could be very fast one day!


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## Shaky Hands (Mar 30, 2016)

Sounds really good Mark. Took me about 3-4 months to get to get a PB in that range. I celebrated by going to the pub. :tu


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## newtonbase (Mar 30, 2016)

kbrune said:


> That's impressive! He could be very fast one day!



As long as he doesn't lose interest. Hopefully cubing has enough depth to keep challenging him. I've pointed him at F2L and suggested he learn more than 2 PLLs. Also, Ortega.


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## Jason Green (Mar 30, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> As long as he doesn't lose interest. Hopefully cubing has enough depth to keep challenging him. I've pointed him at F2L and suggested he learn more than 2 PLLs. Also, Ortega.


Really awesome I hope I have some kids like him in the club!


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## newtonbase (Mar 30, 2016)

Jason Green said:


> Really awesome I hope I have some kids like him in the club!



I'm working on my son too with my eye on Chan Hong Lik's little sister's record. He's got a year to beat her but I think he's more likely to become an MMA star.


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## Selkie (Mar 31, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> Spoke to my nephew on Skype this afternoon. After 5 days of 3x3 and 1 day of 2x2 he has PBs of 36s and 15s respectively. 3x3 global is 1:01. He was saying he can't find enough practice time due to swimming, football, cubs and karate!



Wow he really is improving quickly especially with the low alg count known. I will await updates with interest :tu

@Megaminx Race

An average of 5 on film for your valued critique 3:47.11:-






-------------

Also have another Cubicle unboxing uploading now guys


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## mafergut (Mar 31, 2016)

@Chris: Nice average. You are catching up so fast!!! From the video the Dayan looks like very stable while, at the same time a bit more forgiving that my unmodded SS. Looking forward to getting mine in the mail.

I decided to make a quick video on the nice 5th 2x2 scramble from this weekly comp. Not super easy, no OLL or PBL skips but very nice. Don't watch it if you have not done your 2x2 this week yet. I also added as a bonus my finger trick for the upside-down T-perm PBL that I had promised some time ago. As always my POV is motion sickness inducing and my fingertricks are all locky due to camera panic  Hope you enjoy... and critique it.


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## muchacho (Mar 31, 2016)

Selkie said:


> An average of 5 on film for your valued critique 3:47.11:-


That's fast and the Dayan looks good, are you on PB times already after years of no practice?

Last layear seems a bit long in some solves, are you learning algs for it?


_I learned how to scramble the megaminx but I always handscramble it, I hope I have not forgot it.

__
I've rolled yesterday's PB mo100 to 23.840_


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## Selkie (Mar 31, 2016)

@miguel

I think the top comment was for me not Marcel? If so thank you very much, really enjoying megaminx. If it in fact was not for me ... ignore me 

Great video too. Shows I do not plan enough in 2x2 inspection. Will try better so as I average a pitiful 8-8.5 on 2x2 and I like the upside down T-perm. I must learn more ortega algs and I do an x2 then solve! 

My ridged megaminx arrived and I believe this is the version you are waiting for so I have done an unboxing of it here:-






This was my second unboxing of the way with a nice order coming from Cubicle this morning


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## mafergut (Mar 31, 2016)

Selkie said:


> @Miguel
> 
> I think the top comment was for me not Marcel? If so thank you very much, really enjoying megaminx. If it in fact was not for me ... ignore me
> 
> ...



Of course the comment was for you I just made a mistake. Already edited my post to change that. Thanks for pointing it out. I cannot watch your unboxing now but I'll do it later. I'm expectant to see how the Dayan behaves. I hope it will be my new main and, from what I've seen on your average with the normal one, it might well be. The shades are nice enough and the color scheme is the same as the SS, just the shades are a little bit different, so I won't have to learn a new scheme to solve it.

Thanks for your comments on the 2x2 video. Yes, there's a lot that can be planned in inspection in 2x2, where every tenth counts. My problem is that unless it's an easy face like in this case, I cannot really predict OLL that often, much less PBL (which I couldn't in this case either). If you are good at tracing moves in your head and you know the CP case of all your OLLs you could, in theory, even predict PBL in many cases. That's my aim but my cubing to do list is too long right now  Might as well learn CLL and EG so one looking is much easier.


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## h2f (Mar 31, 2016)

@Miguel - I cant watch your video. Havent done WC yet.


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## Jason Green (Mar 31, 2016)

h2f said:


> @Miguel - I cant watch your video. Havent done WC yet.


Me either maybe tonight. Need to enjoy a cigar and watch Chris's videos too!

Am I the only cigar smoker here?


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## h2f (Mar 31, 2016)

@Jason I smoke a pipe sometimes. I must buy a tobacco.


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## muchacho (Mar 31, 2016)

mafergut said:


> I decided to make a quick video on the nice 5th 2x2 scramble from this weekly comp. Not super easy, no OLL or PBL skips but very nice. Don't watch it if you have not done your 2x2 this week yet. I also added as a bonus my finger trick for the upside-down T-perm PBL that I had promised some time ago. As always my POV is motion sickness inducing and my fingertricks are all locky due to camera panic  Hope you enjoy... and critique it.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jqzYSgHlCxs


WC done. It looks like I did the same solution for that scramble but with a y2 at the start (I did not think or predict much, I was just lucky). I got 4.87 in that 5th scramble of the WC. A 5.90 average, that's 1.5-2 seconds better than normal.



Spoiler



F' U2 R2 U' R U' F U

z y'
R' U' R'
F U R U' R' F'
R2 F2 R2
U 

https://alg.cubing.net/?puzzle=2x2x..._R-_F-
R2_F2_R2
U_&setup=F-_U2_R2_U-_R_U-_F_U


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## mafergut (Mar 31, 2016)

muchacho said:


> WC done. It looks like I did the same solution for that scramble but with a y2 at the start (I did not think or predict much, I was just lucky). I got 4.87 in that 5th scramble of the WC. A 5.90 average, that's 1.5-2 seconds better than normal.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



That's a nice option but, for some reason, I am slower at F inverse-sexy F' than at F sexy F', to the point that I prefer to either do it with my left or just do a U2 F sexy F'. But if I can predict it during inspection I at least know what I'm gonna do and, as the diag swap on the bottom can be oriented in any way for PBL I decided to just do the face with my left. I think I should practise more for U2 versions of all my OLLs, like F URU'R'F'. I'm kind of starting to do that, e.g. with sune from the back (L U L' U L U2 L') but I'm still slower at all those than just U2 + regular alg. 

But, even if I could do both algs at same speed, certainly OLL prediction saves me at least 3-4 tenths in recognition.

Congrats on your good results this week at WC. I also got a result much better than average.


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## muchacho (Mar 31, 2016)

I know I should be able to predict the OLL in easy scrambles like this, did you practiced with unlimited inspection time or that ability just came with time?


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## mafergut (Mar 31, 2016)

muchacho said:


> I know I should be able to predict the OLL in easy scrambles like this, did you practiced with unlimited inspection time or that ability just came with time?



Of course I practise with unlimited inspection most of the time but I try not to spend A LOT more than I would have in comp. It's no use to be able to predict PBL if it takes 2 minutes. Let's say I don't activate csTimer 15 second timer but most my inspections don't go over 30 seconds I'd say, unless I see an interesting case I want to learn something from.

It does help a lot but, anyway, don't get me wrong, I'm not able to predict OLL unless the face is 3-4 moves like this one. You have to admit that this one was kind of easy to predict. Other OLLs with no adjacent stickers can be a bit trickier. In particular I tend to predict wrong sune/antisune, mistaking one for the other, because I don't identify correctly whether the sticker close to the one on the U face is to its right or its left. To be honest I don't know how people that does CLL/EG can one-look 80% their solves. I think it's just practise but young minds are better at spatial reasoning, I guess.

EDIT: I forgot to comment it in the video, but here is my nice rule of thumb for predicting AUF on the double diag swap PBL with 2-side recognition, just in case you don't already do that (probably you do):
- If you have vertical bars, then no AUF,
- if checker pattern of opposites, then U2,
- in any other case, see what you would need to have bars (U/U') and do the opposite or just align the bars before doing the PBL, but I prefer to post-AUF as it gives me some time for my brain to process what I saw while I perform the PBL.


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## Shaky Hands (Mar 31, 2016)

Selkie said:


> My ridged megaminx arrived and I believe this is the version you are waiting for so I have done an unboxing of it here:-
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2m1RXuY46YU
> 
> ...



Thanks, these unboxing vids are really informative. I even watched the whole Megaminx video when I've not even attempted to solve one yet. You've certainly made a big investment in this weekend's comp! Should be fun.


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## Lid (Mar 31, 2016)

I'm still doin' square-1 ... new a5 PB today : *16.185* :: (11.486), (19.113[p]), 17.550, 17.297, 13.709 :: best a12 for the day: 18.426

And I'm also waiting for new stuff, ordered a SS Gigaminx + two 4x4 (GuanSu & CB G4). Still waiting for a non pink SL version of the AoShi 6x6 ...


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## Selkie (Mar 31, 2016)

muchacho said:


> That's fast and the Dayan looks good, are you on PB times already after years of no practice?
> 
> Last layear seems a bit long in some solves, are you learning algs for it?
> 
> ...



Yes luckily my times seem to be down to old times quite quickly after what is probably 60-70 solves since I found out my old megaminx a fortnight ago. I am surprised how quickly I have got down to PB times with a new colour scheme to be fair.


Jason Green said:


> Me either maybe tonight. Need to enjoy a cigar and watch Chris's videos too!
> 
> Am I the only cigar smoker here?



Smoked cigarettes for best part of 30 years but following a health scare a few years ago it was time to change that. Did it with vaping and had my last cig July '14. Gradually cut down the nicotine content of the vape fluid and been on 0% for a few months. Its just the habit now. I did love a good cigar but fear if I had one Id crave the cigs again.



Shaky Hands said:


> Thanks, these unboxing vids are really informative. I even watched the whole Megaminx video when I've not even attempted to solve one yet. You've certainly made a big investment in this weekend's comp! Should be fun.



Glad they were of some use. To be fair it is Marcel that motivated me to do them after requesting one for my large Cubicle order but I quite enjoy doing them so nice to hear if they are even of a little use 



Lid said:


> I'm still doin' square-1 ... new a5 PB today : *16.185* :: (11.486), (19.113[p]), 17.550, 17.297, 13.709 :: best a12 for the day: 18.426
> 
> And I'm also waiting for new stuff, ordered a SS Gigaminx + two 4x4 (GuanSu & CB G4). Still waiting for a non pink SL version of the AoShi 6x6 ...



Wow your Square 1 is awesome. I would have to say if you take a >40 year old solver and compare their PBs to WR, you have to be as close as anyone to the fastest possible times with your SQ1


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## mark49152 (Apr 1, 2016)

So practice time for Exeter is over, and tomorrow I travel. My 4x4 is plateaued at a fairly consistent 1:10-11, which is OK. Not too pleased with my 4BLD progress though - from a string of 8-9.xx solves a couple of weeks ago, I'm now back at consistently 10-11.xx. Don't know what went wrong there. And those are the only events I've practised. Still, any 4BLD success & PB would be worth 550 miles of driving, wouldn't it? 

Here's my PB from a couple of weeks back:-


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## h2f (Apr 1, 2016)

@Mark, Nice solve and reaction. Good luck! You got a very long road to drive. 

My bld times are down too. I think it's due to I couldnt practice last week. I havent done ao100 for two weeks.

@Chris, I've seen your 5x5 ao5 - it's very nice, no pauses. I wonder how you do tredges after the cross. I used to use Uw R U R' F R' F' Uw and its variations to connect wings and midges but Im not happy with it. It looks like you do something else. I watched unboxing of megaminx and it's very nice. Maybe I'll do few solves?


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## newtonbase (Apr 1, 2016)

Nice blindfold Mark. Solve was good too.


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## mark49152 (Apr 1, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> Nice blindfold Mark.


LOL. Virgin Atlantic


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## h2f (Apr 1, 2016)

First timed mega solve since I dont remember: 9:09.35.


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## muchacho (Apr 1, 2016)

Nice! It will not be the last, right? 

Which mega is it?


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## h2f (Apr 1, 2016)

There was a second solve just before but I've screwed during LL and had to fix it: 12:xx but it would be around 8. Mega is from SS - not best but I loosed it and it turns good. It need to break and lube.


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## muchacho (Apr 1, 2016)

When I fail during LL I DNF it, it's usually too much work to fix it.


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## Selkie (Apr 1, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> So practice time for Exeter is over, and tomorrow I travel. My 4x4 is plateaued at a fairly consistent 1:10-11, which is OK. Not too pleased with my 4BLD progress though - from a string of 8-9.xx solves a couple of weeks ago, I'm now back at consistently 10-11.xx. Don't know what went wrong there. And those are the only events I've practised. Still, any 4BLD success & PB would be worth 550 miles of driving, wouldn't it?
> 
> Here's my PB from a couple of weeks back:-
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6nwg4GkKeqc



Nice solve and I am sure you will get your times back soon. Safe travels and I look forward to seeing you tomorrow 



h2f said:


> @Mark, Nice solve and reaction. Good luck! You got a very long road to drive.
> 
> My bld times are down too. I think it's due to I couldnt practice last week. I havent done ao100 for two weeks.
> 
> @Chris, I've seen your 5x5 ao5 - it's very nice, no pauses. I wonder how you do tredges after the cross. I used to use Uw R U R' F R' F' Uw and its variations to connect wings and midges but Im not happy with it. It looks like you do something else. I watched unboxing of megaminx and it's very nice. Maybe I'll do few solves?



On the 5x5 average I timed for the WC? Thanks but it pure redux, not Yau or Hoya even though I tend to match up the blue tredges first. I use reduction for 5+ but looking to change to Yau for 5 and 6 after the comp this weekend. My edge flip alg is R U R' F R' F' R though as its the same I use for 4x4 where I have to preserve cross (Yau) 



h2f said:


> First timed mega solve since I dont remember: 9:09.35.



More mega in the thread, awesome


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## muchacho (Apr 1, 2016)

Today I remembered that when I was young I was able to hold my breath for 2:30 or 2:45. I've tried and got to almost 2 minutes, so I thought "that should be enough to solve the cube (including the time scrambling it) 2 times"... but no, I gave up after 1:30 and 1 cube and a first block solved. I'll try when I can solve (and scramble) it faster or I'm better at holding my breath.


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## mafergut (Apr 1, 2016)

muchacho said:


> Today I remembered that when I was young I was able to hold my breath for 2:30 or 2:45. I've tried and got to almost 2 minutes, so I thought "that should be enough to solve the cube (including the time scrambling it) 2 times"... but no, I gave up after 1:30 and 1 cube and a first block solved. I'll try when I can solve (and scramble) it faster or I'm better at holding my breath.



Hehehe, I have thought of that myself while watching Kevin Hays Guinness WR video. Maybe this summer I will take my old rubiks cube to the swimming pool and try that


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## newtonbase (Apr 1, 2016)

muchacho said:


> Today I remembered that when I was young I was able to hold my breath for 2:30 or 2:45. I've tried and got to almost 2 minutes, so I thought "that should be enough to solve the cube (including the time scrambling it) 2 times"... but no, I gave up after 1:30 and 1 cube and a first block solved. I'll try when I can solve (and scramble) it faster or I'm better at holding my breath.



I've done a cube underwater on my last 2 holidays and 2 in a dry land breath hold. It gets tricky when panic sets in.


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## Shaky Hands (Apr 1, 2016)

Just reviewing what I wrote 2 weeks ago and how it turned out:



Shaky Hands said:


> My plan for both the Exeter and London comps:
> 2x2: I don't practice 2x2 at all and don't even know all the OLL cases of the basic method. It's just something I may as well enter.
> 3x3: Regular Ao25 solves, aiming to do a few hundred solves per week (outside of commuting, where I probably do several hundred more too.)
> 4x4: Not much practice at all. I'm comfortably within the Hard Cut but a long way from the Average Cut, so working much more on 5x5.
> ...



2x2: stuck with my plans and barely picked it up. Can't even do an anti-Sune on this without messing up.
3x3: started on the Race to sub-25. This will probably be a long process. I had this scramble earlier: D2 R2 F U2 D' B D2 U R L2 B2 F U R2 L B R' F' L' R D' F' D' F' R. Never seen a scramble like that so I spent so long looking at the cross in disbelief during inspection that I timed out. 
4x4: done way more than I expected to. I won't make the Average Cut tomorrow but I've made some big improvements. The Cyclone Boyz is working well for me although my solving style on 4x4 has somehow changed into a 5x5 method.
5x5: my variance is really high and I get solves anywhere from 4m to 5.45m. Hopeful of logging a time at the comp but realistically I've only got 2 attempts.
Clock: not been picking this up regularly and am showing some rust. Might be able to get a sub-30s solve on Sunday.

I've also been fiddling with 3BLD a bit more. Thinking of learning Speffz as I'm using Colours at the moment which is OK for edges but tricky with corners. Enjoyed using "YGgdrasil" from Norse mythology for Yellow-Green though, made me chuckle when it occurred to me! I'm still a long way from a successful blind-solve. Targetting end of the year.

For those going to the Exeter Open, I'll be at the comp Sat AM and most of Sunday. Have made some plans to meet a pal in the vicinity on Sat PM as I don't see me making the 2nd round of 2x2 or 4x4. Looking forward to the weekend. Should be fun!


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## mafergut (Apr 1, 2016)

@Mark: I haven't had time to watch your solve. Nice!!!

@All competing at Exeter: Good luck y'all. Please, bring home lots of PBs for the oldies!!!!

@Andy: Nice scramble!!!! 

@Grzegorz: Nice to have you also into Mega. The more the merrier.

Kind of left the Mega race on the side and have not done a single solve during the week until this weekly comp scrambles. Currently my PB Ao5 is 3:35.xx and PB Ao12 is 3:43.xx, still a bit far from sub 3:30. I reached the 100th solve milestone since we started some weeks ago the race to sub-5 and then to sub-4. PB Ao50 is now sub-4!!! (3:58) and Ao100 is 4:19 but, of course, there are lots of sup-5 solves at the beginning


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## h2f (Apr 1, 2016)

mafergut said:


> @Grzegorz: Nice to have you also into Mega. The more the merrier.



I've made 5 solves so far. Minx is quite intresting puzzle and it seems to me one can easily improve to sub-5. Solving with comms made me back to LBL on 3x3 - it seems so funny. I've starte even permute edges with simplest edge comm [M', U2] to not use sunes. Just for fun.


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## Selkie (Apr 1, 2016)

Shaky Hands said:


> For those going to the Exeter Open, I'll be at the comp Sat AM and most of Sunday. Have made some plans to meet a pal in the vicinity on Sat PM as I don't see me making the 2nd round of 2x2 or 4x4. Looking forward to the weekend. Should be fun!





mafergut said:


> @All competing at Exeter: Good luck y'all. Please, bring home lots of PBs for the oldies!!!!



@Andy - I'll get there with my wife and kids about 8:30 tomorrow morning though they are going shopping in Exeter for the day. On Sunday I will be coming on my own as my wife has a degree assignment to write. Closest comp ever to where I live, just 25 miles 

@Miguel - Thanks. Hoping for PBs in most stuff apart from OH as my hands have aged a lot in the last few years and I find it very difficult to OH despite getting down to sub 40 4 years ago, I barely scrape 50 now.

So anyone else attending apart from Andy, Mark and I?


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## newtonbase (Apr 1, 2016)

It's a bit too far for me unfortunately but good luck everyone. I'll be following the results.


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## Jason Green (Apr 1, 2016)

One day when I'm retired and wealthy maybe.


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## h2f (Apr 1, 2016)

@Chris Good luck. I hope you beat all your pbs.


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## kbrune (Apr 1, 2016)

Ditto on what Jason said! I'll go to a comp overseas one day.

Good luck at Exeter to all who are attending. Kick some @ss!!


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## newtonbase (Apr 1, 2016)

kbrune said:


> Ditto on what Jason said! I'll go to a comp overseas one day.



I'm thinking about starting a fund for the next world championship. There's a decent chance that it will be in Europe so I wouldn't have to go too far and worse case scenario is that I end up with some spare cash.


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## kbrune (Apr 2, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> I'm thinking about starting a fund for the next world championship. There's a decent chance that it will be in Europe so I wouldn't have to go too far and worse case scenario is that I end up with some spare cash.



That's a good idea! We should all start a fund for the next worlds. Then we can pool some of those funds for accommodations.. and beer. We shall call it the moldy oldie fund! Lol


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## newtonbase (Apr 2, 2016)

kbrune said:


> That's a good idea! We should all start a fund for the next worlds. Then we can pool some of those funds for accommodations.. and beer. We shall call it the moldy oldie fund! Lol



Yes! And when they decide to hold it in Tasmania we can just meet up in Watford and get really, really drunk.


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## MarcelP (Apr 2, 2016)

English seniors.. good luck today in the competition! I will follow on cubecomps.. Set some awesome PB's guys.


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## muchacho (Apr 2, 2016)

Good luck, remember to get drunk after the comp, not before!


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## Jason Green (Apr 2, 2016)

Yes good luck everyone!


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## newtonbase (Apr 2, 2016)

muchacho said:


> Good luck, remember to get drunk after the comp, not before!



From what I saw at the UKs there are some very experienced and successful cubers who don't feel the need to stick to this rule.


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## h2f (Apr 2, 2016)

Mark made pb in 4x4. Congrats.


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## muchacho (Apr 2, 2016)

And now 6x6.

Chris has set 3 PBs in 2x2, 2 in skewb, 2 in 6x6 and 1 in 7x7 so far, I want to see his 3x3 times


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## h2f (Apr 2, 2016)

Yeah, I've seen it later. Very, very nice results Chris.


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## mafergut (Apr 2, 2016)

Seems like we're missing a whole lot of interesting things. I hope the guys bring back nice videos of their PBs. Keep pushing!!!


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## Shaky Hands (Apr 2, 2016)

I managed to get competition PB's in 2x2 single & average plus 4x4 single there too. Good comp so far.

Chris and Mark have both been filming some solves, so there should be some stuff to show in the week to come.


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## Selkie (Apr 2, 2016)

Thanks guys. Not a great start to the day with car troubles, missed Pyraminx and 4x4. Pleased with the PBs and hoping for more tomorrow. Disappointed with Fmc, had a 15 move F2L-1 at 20 minutes and a Dnf. Highlights for tomorrow will be 3x3 and 5x5.

Great meeting and spending some time with Mark and Andy


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## mark49152 (Apr 2, 2016)

Not a great start for me either. Woke up feeling a bit ill and was on poor form all morning, but luckily scraped through to the second round in 2x2 and 4x4 and the afternoon was better. Got the 4x4 PBs I wanted. I did video my solves but won't be posting it because it's just a mix of bad solves and scowling reactions.  I must try not to smack the timer so hard .

Nice to meet Chris at last and congrats Chris and Andy on the PBs. Looking forward to tomorrow!


----------



## Jason Green (Apr 3, 2016)

Good luck again tomorrow guys. That sucks having car trouble Chris, I think I would freak out for a comp!

Sub 20s are coming more often, at most 20% on a good night of practice. Still not a single sub 20 ao5 though! But tonight I got as close as you can.  Gotta take the little milestones when progress is slow!

Generated By csTimer on 2016-4-2
avg of 5: 20.00

Time List:
1. 19.77 U2 L2 F2 R2 B' F2 L2 B D2 R2 D2 U B' R D2 L2 R' F' L' U' 
2. (23.88) D R F2 L U2 B' L U' D R D2 R2 D2 F2 R2 L2 F' D2 B2 R2 B2 
3. 19.43 U D2 L U L D' L' D R' L2 U2 F2 L2 F L2 F D2 R2 F L2 
4. (18.48) D L U2 R' D2 F2 U2 R B2 L' D2 L B' L2 R' B2 D2 L' B2 U B2 
5. 20.80 D' F' B L' D' L D' B D' L' D2 F2 D2 R2 U2 F2 R F2 L' D2


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## Selkie (Apr 3, 2016)

Jason Green said:


> Good luck again tomorrow guys. That sucks having car trouble Chris, I think I would freak out for a comp!
> 
> Sub 20s are coming more often, at most 20% on a good night of practice. Still not a single sub 20 ao5 though! But tonight I got as close as you can.  Gotta take the little milestones when progress is slow!
> 
> ...



Ouch that really is very close Jason! I am sure the first will come in no time :tu

-----------------

Quick average of 50 clock before I leave the house for day 2 of Exeter Open.

number of times: 50/50
best time: 11.95
worst time: 19.13

current avg5: 15.35 (σ = 1.26)
best avg5: 13.51 (σ = 0.44)

current avg12: 15.28 (σ = 1.10)
best avg12: 14.31 (σ = 0.95)

session avg: 15.22 (σ = 1.11)
session mean: 15.27


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## h2f (Apr 3, 2016)

@Jason nice ao5. Youre progressing.


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## muchacho (Apr 3, 2016)

Congrats Jason!

Next time I think I'm not improving I'll make a chart with the number of sub-20 per 100 solves or I'll find any other data to fool myself that makes me feel optimistic.


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## Lid (Apr 3, 2016)

Crushed a12 PB today; *15.505* (old was 15.921), (2nd-6th solve 14.868 a5)

16.824, (12.380), 15.791, 16.555, 12.605, 16.209, 16.541, (19.069), 15.853, 15.579, 15.346, 13.744

Only one skip (last one) was a COLL (R U' R' U2 L R U' R' U L') (know the mirror also, so 1/6 chance getting skip).



Spoiler: Times/Scambles



Average of 12: 15.505
1. 16.824 U B2 L U2 F' B' U' R2 B U2 L2 F2 U2 L2 U' F2 R2 D F2 B2
2. (12.380) D' R D2 F' B' D2 B R2 D2 L D' L2 D R2 B2 R2 D2 L2 D' F2 L2
3. 15.791 D2 L2 F' D F B2 R L2 F U' D2 F2 R B2 R2 F2 R F2 U2 D2 B2
4. 16.555 D2 B F' D2 B F2 L2 B L2 U' R U' R U F' R' D' R'
5. 12.605 U' F2 L' F' R2 B' L' F' R U' F2 L2 F U2 D2 R2 D2 B2 R2 F' L2
6. 16.209 F U2 F' D2 U2 F' U2 L2 R2 F' R2 U' F2 L U' F2 L' F2 D' R B
7. 16.541 U2 F2 U B2 R2 B2 U R2 B2 D' L2 B' L2 F2 L D L' F2 U B'
8. (19.069) F2 U' L2 F2 D' R2 U2 L2 D' L2 F2 R D2 R F' U B D' B' D' R'
9. 15.853 R2 B2 D F2 D' F D L U' R' F2 D' B2 U2 L2 B2 R2 D' F2 R2 U
10. 15.579 D2 L' F U2 R2 F L2 D R2 L2 U2 L' U2 D2 L2 U2 D2 B2 D2
11. 15.346 R2 D L2 D2 L2 U B2 F2 R2 F2 U2 B F2 L' R B' L B2 U2
12. 13.744 U2 B2 D2 F2 L2 R U2 R D2 L2 R2 D' F D' B' U' L B' F2 R' U'


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## moralsh (Apr 3, 2016)

Mark sub 10 and podium on 4bld awesome!


----------



## h2f (Apr 3, 2016)

Yes, I've seen Chris also got nice ao5 in clock and they both get fine times in 5x5x5. Congrats!

@Lid, awsome times.


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## bubbagrub (Apr 3, 2016)

moralsh said:


> Mark sub 10 and podium on 4bld awesome!



Woo hoo! Go Mark!


----------



## mafergut (Apr 3, 2016)

Nice results!!!! My head hurts. I was doing the 3BLD of this weekly comp and I cannot sub-10. So sub-10 4BLD seems so... wow!!!! Congrats Mark.
Congratulations also to all of you for the nice results.


----------



## Jason Green (Apr 3, 2016)

Congratulations Mark and everyone!


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## muchacho (Apr 3, 2016)

15.93 ao5, PB for Chris by 2 seconds :tu

That's bronze medal for a sup-40 after Ron van Bruchem and Gilles Roux.


----------



## h2f (Apr 3, 2016)

Awsome!


----------



## MarcelP (Apr 3, 2016)

Jason Green said:


> Sub 20s are coming more often, bla bla bla
> 
> *milestones when progress is slow*!
> 
> ...



LOL.. slow? Give it 4 weeks and you are past most old guys here.. Good job. Trust me, in 6 - 9 months you will be averaging 15 secs. It took me almost 4 years to get where I am now.. You seem to go about 4 times faster.. LOL

@Mark and @Chris, good job guys. You managed to make us seniors look good


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## Selkie (Apr 3, 2016)

Sorry guys, home now. Thanks for all the word of congratulations and encouragement last two days. Yes have to be very pleased with the results and 17 PBs but more than that I have missed spending time with other cubers. Was a great, great comp and great to meet cubers new and old and especially Mark and Andy from this thread. There will be a flood of videos as I caught everything but first round of 2x2 and the two megaminx singles as my battery died.

But for now, here is the main event. 3x3 Second Round, 15.93 Average of 5 ... 16.15, (18.08), (14.63), 15.88, 15.76


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## Jason Green (Apr 3, 2016)

MarcelP said:


> LOL.. slow? Give it 4 weeks and you are past most old guys here.. Good job. Trust me, in 6 - 9 months you will be averaging 15 secs. It took me almost 4 years to get where I am now.. You seem to go about 4 times faster.. LOL
> 
> @Mark and @Chris, good job guys. You managed to make us seniors look good



Well it will be nice if you are right, it doesn't feel like it to me right now. Of course every since I started getting interested in more than 3x3 it takes some of my practice time away. Not that much since I mostly do 3x3 still. 

Chris that is really awesome and fun to see! I still need to watch some of your unboxings but I watched this right away! Good looking shirt, did you get any comments on it? I'll have to forward to my brother to see this.


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## Shaky Hands (Apr 3, 2016)

Already at it with the vids, Chris?  Good stuff. Great to meet you in person at the weekend and congrats to both you and Mark on your successes.

The fact that we both screwed up the same Clock scramble in the same way will haunt me until the next comp too.

Cheers.


----------



## Jason Green (Apr 3, 2016)

Shaky Hands said:


> Already at it with the vids, Chris?


We are very demanding fans.


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## muchacho (Apr 4, 2016)

Nice video, since when is the Tornado your main? Do I hear some spring noises?


----------



## mafergut (Apr 4, 2016)

muchacho said:


> Nice video, since when is the Tornado your main? Do I hear some spring noises?



I think in his last unboxing of stickerless stuff he said he would decide between the yuexiao and the tornado. It looks like he went with the Tornado without lubing the core or anything


----------



## h2f (Apr 4, 2016)

New single pb: 11.12

Scramble:F2 U L2 D F2 D L2 R2 D2 F2 U' F' U2 L2 D R' U2 R' D' R'
z2y'//preinspection
R2 D U L2 R2 //xcross. During R2 I've noticed that it was xcross. I wasnt planning it but I thought in such cross (R2/L2 moves) it might happen.
y' U L' U2 L U L' U' L //
y U' R U R'//
y' R U R' U' R U R'//
U' R' F R U R' U' F' U R // OLL
U2// PLL
alg.cubing.net

35htm/11.12=3,15 TPS

It's a part of 17.75 ao5 which is 0.3 worse from my best and a part of 19.91 ao50.


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## Shaky Hands (Apr 4, 2016)

Very impressive Grzegorz. Well done. I love skips.


----------



## h2f (Apr 4, 2016)

Thanks. My sheet says it's best ao50. After few solves it's 19.78


----------



## Selkie (Apr 4, 2016)

Shaky Hands said:


> Already at it with the vids, Chris?  Good stuff. Great to meet you in person at the weekend and congrats to both you and Mark on your successes.
> 
> The fact that we both screwed up the same Clock scramble in the same way will haunt me until the next comp too.
> 
> Cheers.



Great meeting you too. I very nearly made the same mistake on the last clock scramble too and that would have DNFed the average. Its 6 o'clock ... everywhere! 



muchacho said:


> Nice video, since when is the Tornado your main? Do I hear some spring noises?





mafergut said:


> I think in his last unboxing of stickerless stuff he said he would decide between the yuexiao and the tornado. It looks like he went with the Tornado without lubing the core or anything



It became my main as I stood over the score card for the second round and thought that the YueXiao had locked up so many times in the first round. Hardly broken in and in need of some lube on the core etc but it didn't let me down. I will spend some time setting it up and lubing it now.



h2f said:


> New single pb: 11.12
> 
> It's a part of 17.75 ao5 which is 0.3 worse from my best and a part of 19.91 ao50.



Not only a great solve but a sub 20 ao50! Great stuff Grzegorz


----------



## muchacho (Apr 4, 2016)

Very nice Grzegorz!

I want to see how my solves look like, I'll try to reconstruct the fastest (and some slow ones if I film them), but I already know lookahead and the rest of the solve is improving fine, but F2B efficiency is not good.

16.102 U' B2 R2 D2 L2 U' L2 F2 D R2 U B D2 L U2 R' B U' R L2 F' U2

z'
Uw' M U2 M2 B U' M L' U L M2 U2 F'
U M' U R U R M U' R U' R' U2 M' Rw U Rw' U2 R' U R
F R U R' U' R U R' U' F'
M U' M U' M' U' M U2 M U2 M' U' M2 U'

57 STM / 71 HTM

57/16.102 = 3.539

https://alg.cubing.net/?setup=_U-_B...-_U-_F-
M_U-_M_U-_M-_U-_M_U2_M_U2_M-_U-_M2_U-


Alternative FB, shorter but difficult to see and fingertrick:
y'
B2 R U2 D' B2 Lw2 x' U2 Lw' B

For now I can only plan a 2x2 block, and track the other two pieces sometimes. I'm going to practice FMC FB this week.



Selkie said:


> It became my main as I stood over the score card for the second round and thought that the YueXiao had locked up so many times in the first round. Hardly broken in and in need of some lube on the core etc but it didn't let me down. I will spend some time setting it up and lubing it now.


Nice cube must be then, may be good for Roux?


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## muchacho (Apr 4, 2016)

*Unofficial PBs

2x2*
Single: 1.280 (16-May-16)
Ao5: 4.468 (20-Sep-16)
Ao12: 5.190 (20-Sep-16)
Mo100: 6.256 (28-Jul-17)

*3x3*
Single: 10.121 (8-Feb-18)
Ao5: 13.81 (25-Dec-20)
Ao12: 15.19 (16-Mar-21)
Ao100: 16.74 (15-Jan-21)

*3x3 OH*
Single: 13.68 (17-Nov-20)
Ao5: 19.60 (02-May-20)
Ao12: 20.43 (04-Jun-20)
Ao100: 22.80 (27-Jan-21)

*4x4*
Single: 1:17.690 (30-Apr-17)
Ao5: 1:35.764 (30-Aug-17)
Ao12: 1:40.479 (30-Aug-17)

*5x5*
Single: 4:01.027 (21-Aug-17)
Ao5: 4:19.708 (21-Aug-17)
Ao12: 5:08.567 (20-Aug-17)

*Megaminx*
Single: 3:18.715 (19-Mar-16)
Ao5: 3:40.560 (20-Mar-16)
Ao12: 3:46.847 (20-Mar-16)

*Skewb*
Single: 6.120 (18-Apr-16)
Ao5: 10.272 (06-Apr-16)
Ao12: 11.704 (06-Apr-16)
Mo100: 15.789 (06-Apr-16)

*3x3BLD (only corners)*
Single: 47.32 (18-Mar-16)

*3x3BLD (only edges)*
Single: 3:55.55 (05-Aug-17)

*2-3-4 Relay*
Single: 2:17.255 (22-May-16)

*Kilominx*
Single: 42.334 (29-Sep-16)
Ao5: 1:00.798 (29-Sep-16)
Ao12: 1:03.904 (02-Oct-16)

*Square-1*
Single: 46.541 (18-Nov-16)
Ao5: 1:13.612 (15-Nov-16)
Ao12: 1:23.678 (15-Nov-16)

*Clock*
Single: 1:01.899 (21-Dec-16)
Ao5: 1:10.181 (21-Dec-16)

*LSE*
Mo100: 4.385 (10-Jul-17)

*LSE OH*
Ao100: 5.41 (04-May-20)


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## h2f (Apr 4, 2016)

@Chris, David, Thank you. It's the second or third ao50 sub20. I think Im closer to sub20 ao100. 

@David nice tps. When I was doing Roux there was a internet tool to practice both FB and SB.


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## Selkie (Apr 4, 2016)

Jason Green said:


> Well it will be nice if you are right, it doesn't feel like it to me right now. Of course every since I started getting interested in more than 3x3 it takes some of my practice time away. Not that much since I mostly do 3x3 still.
> 
> Chris that is really awesome and fun to see! I still need to watch some of your unboxings but I watched this right away! Good looking shirt, did you get any comments on it? I'll have to forward to my brother to see this.



Sorry Jason, yes got a few comments but the black lettering is not easy to see on the dark red so think I may have to order another in white. Those I pointed it out to thought it was great


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## muchacho (Apr 4, 2016)

http://cubegrass.appspot.com/block_trainer/

I'll use that too.


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## MarcelP (Apr 4, 2016)

h2f said:


> New single pb: 11.12
> 
> Scramble:F2 U L2 D F2 D L2 R2 D2 F2 U' F' U2 L2 D R' U2 R' D' R'
> z2y'//preinspection
> ...



Great solve! I had a 12.75 full step yesterday and was so happy. Unfortunatly my Ao50 was 20.01.. My times are getting worse (or I had a bad hair day).. But I enjoy practicing again so I should be back on track soon.


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## h2f (Apr 4, 2016)

Thats the same, David. 

I rolled my ao50 to 19.53. All solves done today between other stuff that I'm doing. In ao100 which I do since yesterday I got 56 solves sub20.


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## Shaky Hands (Apr 4, 2016)

Selkie said:


> Great meeting you too. I very nearly made the same mistake on the last clock scramble too and that would have DNFed the average. Its 6 o'clock ... everywhere!



I think I know what confused me with that solve... it was the first time I'd done Clock in a comp and when I scramble at home I always start it orientated the correct way so didn't think to check for this in the comp itself. I guess it's easy to change the orientation when the judge brings the scrambled clock over. It wasn't the judge's fault though, it was mine for not checking and I'll know to check the orientation in future.


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## mafergut (Apr 4, 2016)

h2f said:


> New single pb: 11.12
> 
> Scramble:F2 U L2 D F2 D L2 R2 D2 F2 U' F' U2 L2 D R' U2 R' D' R'
> z2y'//preinspection
> ...



Very, very nice solve, Grzegorz! You beat my PB for more than half a second now. I'll have to practise more


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## h2f (Apr 4, 2016)

@All, thanks again, I dont want to miss anyone's post. 

@Miguel, I think I'm still far away from you...


----------



## Logiqx (Apr 4, 2016)

Phew. Quickly skimmed through the last week of posts!

Congrats on the official PBs in Exeter and unofficial PBs elsewhere in the thread. I'll watch the videos at home when I start catching up on YouTube. I haven't logged on to it in almost a week!

As expected, I didn't find much time to practice whilst I was away but I did manage to do 100 timed solves yesterday. The Ao50 and Ao100 are in my sig and felt pretty representative of my current speed. I'm looking forward to getting my practice time back!

Edit: @Jason... when did you start cubing? You seem to be improving really quickly! I may also have some tips regarding teaching as well as I've taught a number of people (9yrs to 50+) and some of my experiences may be of helpful.


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## h2f (Apr 4, 2016)

19.99 ao100 with a part of 30 solves from yesterday's session.


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## Jason Green (Apr 4, 2016)

h2f said:


> Thanks. My sheet says it's best ao50. After few solves it's 19.78


Great job, awesome single! I guess sub 10 will be soon.


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## Jason Green (Apr 4, 2016)

Chris, I'll let my brother know you might get a second one. 

Mike I first learned to solve Petrus probably 8 years ago. I didn't practice much and would forget how when I would try again, and my best time was over 2 mins. I couldn't even read notation, I learned from Lars' animations on his site. 

Then I got into speed cubing last July when I saw a high school kid's cube.  I tried to show a solve to him and failed of course. He was about 1:30 so it peaked my interest, and then I found so much on YouTube! I think my previous knowledge of the cube made it easier for me to pick up CFOP (I did not know color scheme even so it was limited). 

Any teaching advice would be great! I have ideas in my head but we'll see how it goes.


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## muchacho (Apr 4, 2016)

@Chris Why didn't you compete in 4x4 at Exeter?

___
Skewb PBs:
Ao5: 13.138 (it was 13.405)
Ao12: 15.648 (it was 15.723)

I've forgotten the cat 1 cases, and almost how to perform the other (is it called hedge?) move_


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## mafergut (Apr 4, 2016)

muchacho said:


> @Chris Why didn't you compete in 4x4 at Exeter?
> 
> ___
> Skewb PBs:
> ...



I think he arrived late because of the car issues?

Regarding skewb, congrats for your PBs. I never got to learning more than 1 or 2 cat 1 cases and now I don't know which is which of the cases I use. I need to stop just solving and go back to learning something new here and there once in a while, because otherwise progress is kind of difficult. Yeah, the other move I also don't use is the hedge[slammer]. I am supposed to know how to do it but when I get a case where I could use it I just rotate the skewb a y2 and do a sledge 

Right now, what I hate the most because it surely will spoil my time for the solve are:
- the "peanut" case for top corners, as it takes me 4 sledges (two, y rotation, and another two).
- "H-perm", I learned an alg for it but never learned to do it fast so I'm so bad at it.
- "Z-perm", never got to learn an alg for it and it takes two U-perms and a rotation in between that I mess up often
If I get a "peanut" AND a "Z-perm" in the same solve then I'm probably going over 15-18 seconds.

This week's comp scrambles were so lucky, though  Almost all where 2-4 move 1st layer, easy top corners case and U-perm. So I beat my PB (1st sub-10 Ao5 ever).


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## Logiqx (Apr 4, 2016)

muchacho said:


> @Chris Why didn't you compete in 4x4 at Exeter?



Car trouble... I think I read that whilst skimming through the posts.


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## muchacho (Apr 4, 2016)

So many posts, I think I read everything but somehow I missed that.


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## h2f (Apr 4, 2016)

I did it! After a dinner I've finished todays solves: *ao100* *19.66* including new single pb: *11.12*.



Spoiler



Generated By csTimer on 2016-4-4
solves/total: 100/100

single
best: 11.12
worst: 25.32

mean of 3
current: 18.36 (σ = 1.08)
best: 17.22 (σ = 5.30)

avg of 5
current: 19.23 (σ = 1.31)
best: 17.75 (σ = 2.26)

avg of 12
current: 19.89 (σ = 1.79)
best: 18.56 (σ = 1.82)

avg of 50
current: 19.80 (σ = 1.71)
best: 19.46 (σ = 1.44)

avg of 100
current: 19.66 (σ = 1.60)
best: 19.66 (σ = 1.60)

Average: 19.66 (σ = 1.60)
Mean: 19.68

Time List:
19.73, 19.78, 20.62, 21.91, 16.68, 19.52, 18.02, 22.91, 19.76, 18.21, 21.17, 18.62, 18.33, 17.86, 19.30, 21.53, 21.92, 22.51, 15.41, 17.92, 22.96, 11.12, 19.91, 20.63, 16.63, 18.11, 17.29, 19.23, 19.26, 21.17, 17.95, 18.25, 24.36, 21.35, 19.83, 20.59, 19.54, 19.14, 18.58, 19.92, 22.40, 18.65, 17.30, 20.85, 19.13, 17.73, 20.26, 19.47, 19.16, 21.02, 18.91, 18.53, 19.23, 21.53, 17.13, 24.35, 17.82, 20.85, 19.28, 19.80, 22.11, 18.27, 21.40, 20.23, 19.03, 18.35, 18.38, 24.56, 16.57, 21.45, 19.74, 18.85, 25.32, 18.80, 19.62, 17.88, 19.74, 16.05, 20.03, 17.13, 23.30, 21.29, 18.39, 19.88, 20.11, 19.41, 18.49, 22.88, 24.92, 22.11, 15.83, 17.42, 21.06, 19.41, 21.63, 20.31, 21.84, 19.61, 17.78, 17.70


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## muchacho (Apr 4, 2016)

Congrats!

More than half a second improvement (20.18) must feel great (and be difficult and rare once below 20 seconds).


----------



## mafergut (Apr 4, 2016)

Congratulations, Grzegorz!!! Very nice Ao100 and very good small (5, 12) averages in there as well.


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## h2f (Apr 4, 2016)

Awsome feeling. I'm exausted... My previous ao100 was made more than month ago that's why the gap is so big. Although I havent done it in one session but solves were done whole day when I had a break from other stuff, I count it as an ao100. Maybe soon I will have enough time to do it in one sitting.


----------



## Logiqx (Apr 4, 2016)

Jason Green said:


> Any teaching advice would be great! I have ideas in my head but we'll see how it goes.



Perhaps the biggest surprise when trying to teach people is how much longer it takes than expected. I've taught 3 people individually and 2 people simultaneously (lunchtime sessions at work). In total, it's generally taken about 2-3 hours to teach individuals and 3-4 hours to teach multiple people.

The approach I took for my work colleagues (2 people at once) was 4 sessions using carefully prepared cheat sheets. I thought the sessions would be 20-30 minutes each but they actually took 40-60 minutes for the skills to stick:

1) Cube background (basic facts, 43 quintillion positions, etc) and the "cross"
2) F2L - corners then edges (URU'R' + U'L'UL + y / y' rotations)
3) LL steps 1+2 (EO - FUR, CP - Niklas)
4) LL steps 3+4 (CO - Sune, EP - Sune + Lefty Mirror)

Lesson 1 - Cross

Teaching people to directly solve the cross is surprisingly hard. Teaching individuals you can manage it but as soon as you're teaching multiple people, I'd recommend the "daisy" approach where you place white edges around the yellow centre first. This makes it MUCH easier to begin with and once they can solve the cube you can transition them to solving the cross directly.

Lesson 2 - F2L

Unconventionally, I chose to use URU'R' to insert to the FR corner (U'L'UL for the FL corner) because it's more intuitive (IMHO) and you can re-use the same alg for the middle layer edges. Everyone grasps this approach really quickly. The middle layer edges then use the lefty or righty alg to start plus a rotation followed by re-insertion of the corner (point this out and they never forget the last 4 moves). Again this was pretty easy for everyone.

Lesson 3 - EO + CP

Using the FUR algorithm is good for two reasons. Firstly, it orients the edges twice as often as FRU and secondly it uses the exact same algorithm used during F2L, just with F / F' added to the start / end. Using Niklas for CP is the easiest option IMHO. Everyone that I've taught grasps Niklas immediately (teach them to watch the F2L pairs) whereas A-perm is more challenging to remember and easier to mess up.

Lesson 4 - CO + EP

Basic Sune is easy to teach if you show the F2L pair moving around in the U layer. I would advise against teaching a mirror / inverse to beginners as it just adds complexity. When they've done a dozen solves, tell them how / when they can use lefty Sune. I teach Sune and it's lefty mirror as a simple U-perm. This step is effectively "free" and does not require any new algorithms, just the lefty mirror of Sune. I'd advise against teaching them to distinguish between Ua and Ub until they done a dozen solves at which point you can tell them to apply righty+lefty or lefty+righty depending on the 3-cycle case.


I can't prepare you for how difficult some people find the cross... it can be quite staggering! Keep it simple and go for the daisy approach right away, especially when teaching a group. Make it as easy as possible to solve the cube initially.

One of my colleagues went away and went on to teach his sister-in-law who had previously tried YouTube videos and given up. Apparently she thought my approach was a lot easier and it has to be a good sign that days after my lessons he was able to use the same approach to teach another person.

Once they're able to solve the cube you can introduce things such as RUR' for corners, FRU for edge oriention and savvy use of lefty/righty Sune for CO/EP. Anyone who is interested in speed solving can be switched to the traditional EO+CO+CP+EP and taught proper permutation algs leading them towards 4LLL and beyond.

Good luck and have fun!


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## Jason Green (Apr 4, 2016)

Thanks that is great advice! I was actually planning to do OLL and PLL with simplified algs, but your suggestion is probably much better. I'll have to review what Niklas is I don't recall all the Petrus names (didn't he come up with the names?) 

What is FUR? Just the FURU'R'F' that you would do for EO in 2 look PLL?


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## Logiqx (Apr 4, 2016)

Jason Green said:


> Thanks that is great advice! I was actually planning to do OLL and PLL with simplified algs, but your suggestion is probably much better. I'll have to review what Niklas is I don't recall all the Petrus names (didn't he come up with the names?)
> 
> What is FUR? Just the FURU'R'F' that you would do for EO in 2 look PLL?


Niklas - R U' L' U R' U' L (U) swaps corners on right
FUR - F (U R U' R') F'

Sent from my GT-I9305 using Tapatalk


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## h2f (Apr 4, 2016)

@Mike, thats exact order how I've learnt solving cube 17 years ago.


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## MarcelP (Apr 4, 2016)

Jason Green said:


> Then I got into speed cubing last July when I saw a high school kid's cube. .



Yeah, you are progressing very quickly. You avg 23 secs in less than a year. I took a whole year to become sub 30..  Another year to become sub 25 and another 2 years to become sub 20... Just for reference.. LOL


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## mafergut (Apr 4, 2016)

My beginner's approach is a bit different of this you propose Michael. I didn't know about the use of a sune and a lefty sune to orient corners, that's nice, I always learn something new in this forum 

My approach, and the one I use for Match the Scramble, where I can't use CFOP because I can't get my mind over the completely unmatching colors, goes as follows (I also use it for Megaminx, so maybe I already mentioned it here):
- EO with F sexy F', also inverse-sexy and f sexy f' (basically 1st look of 2L OLL)
- EP with Sune
- CP with Niklas or R' D R, bring the next spot over with U/U'/U2, R' D' R... For MTS I just use Niklas as it is an easy alg, while the commutator is difficult to use when the colors don't match.
- CO with (R' D' R D)x2 or (R F' R' F)x2 (or x4 if needed or using the inverse x2), bring the next corner over with U/U'/U2, rinse and repeat 
Your approach certainly needs less algs and maybe even less steps (or repetition of algs) as doing CP before EP you can always find an already permuted corner, meanwhile, I sometimes find the 4 corners wrongly permuted and need several Niklas (at least two, or even more if not using Niklas' mirror).

I had never realized (maybe I knew but never really used it to my advantage) that Sune does not alter the relative position of the corners, just twists 3 of them and cycles 3 edges around. This reminds me that I need to pay much more attention to what my algs really do (like knowing the CP case of my OLLs, etc.).


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## Logiqx (Apr 4, 2016)

mafergut said:


> My beginner's approach is a bit different of this you propose Michael. I didn't know about the use of a sune and a lefty sune to orient corners, that's nice, I always learn something new in this forum
> 
> My approach, and the one I use for Match the Scramble, where I can't use CFOP because I can't get my mind over the completely unmatching colors, goes as follows (I also use it for Megaminx, so maybe I already mentioned it here):
> - EO with F sexy F', also inverse-sexy and f sexy f' (basically 1st look of 2L OLL)
> ...


That's the Dan Brown (pogobat) approach. "Hey World"...

Sent from my GT-I9305 using Tapatalk


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## Shaky Hands (Apr 4, 2016)

If I can share something that I struggled with when starting cubing it was that none of the tutorials I used gave a proper explanation of the rotation of some sides. They explained the ones used in most of the algorithms, i.e.: R, R', U, U', F and F', but didn't go into L, B, D and their primes. As a result of that it took me a while to realise that the movement was *relative to the centre of the cube*.

So, I thought L would move the same way *relative to me* as R (in this case, away from me); and similarly with D compared to U and B compared to F. I've made a point of ensuring the few people I've shown cubing to have known this up-front as it wasn't obvious to me and it's one of the basic points that seems to get missed. I think my first solve took about 6 hours because of this.


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## Jason Green (Apr 4, 2016)

Shaky Hands said:


> If I can share something that I struggled with when starting cubing it was that none of the tutorials I used gave a proper explanation of the rotation of some sides. They explained the ones used in most of the algorithms, i.e.: R, R', U, U', F and F', but didn't go into L, B, D and their primes. As a result of that it took me a while to realise that the movement was *relative to the centre of the cube*.
> 
> So, I thought L would move the same way *relative to me* as R (in this case, away from me); and similarly with D compared to U and B compared to F. I've made a point of ensuring the few people I've shown cubing to have known this up-front as it wasn't obvious to me and it's one of the basic points that seems to get missed. I think my first solve took about 6 hours because of this.


Ouch that would be painful! Yes I always emphasize it is clockwise when you are facing that side, and usually give the example R is this way, but L is this way because you have to imagine looking straight at the left side.

Plus I usually watch them doing algs for a bit and tell them when they turn wrong. I helped an older (than me) man at the last comp solve a 2x2 for the first time. He was quite tickled. He used my cheat sheets and help, but I only caught him turning the wrong direction once.


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## Logiqx (Apr 4, 2016)

Shaky Hands said:


> If I can share something that I struggled with when starting cubing it was that none of the tutorials I used gave a proper explanation of the rotation of some sides. They explained the ones used in most of the algorithms, i.e.: R, R', U, U', F and F', but didn't go into L, B, D and their primes. As a result of that it took me a while to realise that the movement was *relative to the centre of the cube*.
> 
> So, I thought L would move the same way *relative to me* as R (in this case, away from me); and similarly with D compared to U and B compared to F. I've made a point of ensuring the few people I've shown cubing to have known this up-front as it wasn't obvious to me and it's one of the basic points that seems to get missed. I think my first solve took about 6 hours because of this.



Agreed. B & D are particularly confusing which is why I avoid them in the beginners method I teach. The same applies for slice turns and x / z rotations.

I taught my other half without notation... "bring the pair to the top, around the front, restore the cross, ...". This is easy for Niklas and Sune and the reason I chose them as opposed to A-perm and U-perm. She refused to be taught by letters and wanted to know what was happening to the pieces. Whilst it is tricky to explain to a beginner why Niklas and Sune have their effect you can easily explain that taking pairs out of the F2L and putting them back in slightly differently will affect the LL. This is one of the influences of how / why I settled on this method and the specific algs.


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## Selkie (Apr 4, 2016)

@Andy

Yup the starting orientation of the clock I think is the exact reason. Heh, live and learn 

@David

I don't see any reason the Tornado wouldn't be good for Roux. It has very nice M slices 

Yup as others mentioned had vehicle issues and ended up missing Pyraminx and 4x4. Disappointed but there is always next time.

@Michael

Very nice time. A quarter of the way from sub 20 to sub 10 

The teaching tips are awesome. My son has never shown any interest in cubing but has told me today he wants to learn so this is very useful information.

Also any chance you could update your over 40 statistics. I find it a great source of motivation and would love to see how it looks after Exeter Open 

@Grzegorz

Great 3x3 times, you must feel globally sub 20 now?

@Megaminx Race

After a nervous first solve at Exeter Open was pleased with the second solve of 3:30.90 but was never going to make average cut of 2:30 though that is now a goal.

Just done an average of 20 with the following bests

best time: 3:10.36
best avg5: 3:24.02 (σ = 7.06)
best avg12: 3:42.66 (σ = 20.28)


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## Logiqx (Apr 4, 2016)

Selkie said:


> Very nice time. A quarter of the way from sub 20 to sub 10
> 
> The teaching tips are awesome. My son has never shown any interest in cubing but has told me today he wants to learn so this is very useful information.
> 
> Also any chance you could update your over 40 statistics. I find it a great source of motivation and would love to see how it looks after Exeter Open



I watched your 3x3 solves whilst the update script for the over-40's ran. GJ

https://www.speedsolving.com/forum/showthread.php?54128-How-fast-are-the-over-40-s-in-competitions


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## Selkie (Apr 4, 2016)

Logiqx said:


> I watched your 3x3 solves whilst the update script for the over-40's ran. GJ
> 
> https://www.speedsolving.com/forum/showthread.php?54128-How-fast-are-the-over-40-s-in-competitions



Thank you very much indeed sir. On both counts 

Wow, Bruchem and Roux to beat on over 40 3x3 average. I'd hope to catch Gilles but don't think I'll ever catch Ron 

Some awesome progress by Mark as well in the "wrinkly rankings"


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## Jason Green (Apr 4, 2016)

Logiqx said:


> I watched your 3x3 solves whilst the update script for the over-40's ran. GJ
> 
> https://www.speedsolving.com/forum/showthread.php?54128-How-fast-are-the-over-40-s-in-competitions


I was going to bug you after my KC comp in a couple weeks. If I don't have any improvements I won't have a reason to.  Thanks again for this, motivating indeed!

BTW, some of us from Dallas comp got asked about helping with the Beyond Rubik's exhibit in San Antonio. I spoke with them and will be going on May 7-8 to walk around and show how to cube, and they are going to pay for our hotel for the weekend! It's about a 5 hour drive for us.


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## Logiqx (Apr 4, 2016)

Jason Green said:


> I was going to bug you after my KC comp in a couple weeks. If I don't have any improvements I won't have a reason to.  Thanks again for this, motivating indeed!
> 
> BTW, some of us from Dallas comp got asked about helping with the Beyond Rubik's exhibit in San Antonio. I spoke with them and will be going on May 7-8 to walk around and show how to cube, and they are going to pay for our hotel for the weekend! It's about a 5 hour drive for us.



Sure. Remind me when they're on the WCA website.

Beyond Rubiks sounds fun. Enjoy!


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## newtonbase (Apr 4, 2016)

MarcelP said:


> Yeah, you are progressing very quickly. You avg 23 secs in less than a year. I took a whole year to become sub 30..  Another year to become sub 25 and another 2 years to become sub 20... Just for reference.. LOL



2 years and I'm still not sub 30s. It's a main goal for this year but might not happen. 

I've spent both of my 3 day Pyraminx training sessions learning keyhole and I have to say it seems like wasted time. Unless I get a decent scramble where I can start planning past the first 3 edges it can be very slow. Although I know most cases now recognition is really slow. I just can't get a feel for the puzzle and it's the only one I did get any PBs in at Manchester. I'll give it one last chance (using LBL) at London then leave it in favour of proper shaped puzzles.


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## Shaky Hands (Apr 4, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> 2 years and I'm still not sub 30s. It's a main goal for this year but might not happen.



Mark, I found the Race to Sub-30 here on the speedsolving forums a really good motivator for this. Well worth taking part in. Managed to graduate a few weeks ago and even though it didn't fully pay off in Exeter, my comp average there was 6 seconds ahead of Manchester's. 

I've watched some of your solves and know you'll get there at some point. Good luck fella.


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## mafergut (Apr 4, 2016)

Shaky Hands said:


> Mark, I found the Race to Sub-30 here on the speedsolving forums a really good motivator for this. Well worth taking part in. Managed to graduate a few weeks ago and even though it didn't fully pay off in Exeter, my comp average there was 6 seconds ahead of Manchester's.
> 
> I've watched some of your solves and know you'll get there at some point. Good luck fella.


Yeah, the race threads and, most of all, this thread are very good motivators. Seeing Chris up there in the elite of the oldies, close to legends like Roux and Ron van Bruchem is really impressive. I wish I could be close to them someday

Enviado desde mi Nexus 4 mediante Tapatalk


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## h2f (Apr 4, 2016)

Selkie said:


> @Grzegorz
> 
> Great 3x3 times, you must feel globally sub 20 now?



I think of myself as being low 20 because I got many ao100 with low 20. I'm happy of getting sub20 ao100 but I must redo this few times. A lot of my solves over 20 was in a range 20-22 and thats good factor showing were I am. In the end I was so nervous and my hands felt like being of wood.


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## Logiqx (Apr 4, 2016)

@Mark: Just watched your 4BLD. Lovely smooth turning and the blind aspect ain't bad either. 

Very impressive!


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## Jason Green (Apr 4, 2016)

Logiqx said:


> Niklas - R U' L' U R' U' L (U) swaps corners on right
> FUR - F (U R U' R') F'
> 
> Sent from my GT-I9305 using Tapatalk



Gosh, I don't think I did CP since last July.  Niklas swaps the ones from the left and they end up on the right, before the last U, right? So U2 to have the left side swapped... Anyway I got confused by it a bit when I tried to do it. 

I never did Sune lefty Sune for EP either, cool!



MarcelP said:


> Yeah, you are progressing very quickly. You avg 23 secs in less than a year. I took a whole year to become sub 30..  Another year to become sub 25 and another 2 years to become sub 20... Just for reference.. LOL



I think you also learned CN which might have been slower progress at first but paid off more later. I tried some non-white/yellow last night and I'm around 1 minute. Thanks for the encouragement!



newtonbase said:


> 2 years and I'm still not sub 30s. It's a main goal for this year but might not happen.



You'll get there I'm sure! It sounds like it's been a challenge for you to get practice time which is the biggest key I think.


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## Logiqx (Apr 4, 2016)

Jason Green said:


> Gosh, I don't think I did CP since last July.  Niklas swaps the ones from the left and they end up on the right, before the last U, right? So U2 to have the left side swapped... Anyway I got confused by it a bit when I tried to do it.
> 
> I never did Sune lefty Sune for EP either, cool!
> 
> ...


Technically Niklas does a 3 cycle like an A-perm (twisting the same corners simultaneously) but from the beginners point of view it just swaps two corners and spins the U layer. The way i recognise the CP case is to look for two matching corner stickers (non U colour), AUF so they are above the corresponding side then look which corners need to be swapped.
Once you know which cornrrs need to be swapped just AUF and do Niklas.

BTW. How much practice would you say you get Jason?

Sent from my GT-I9305 using Tapatalk


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## Selkie (Apr 5, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> 2 years and I'm still not sub 30s. It's a main goal for this year but might not happen.





Shaky Hands said:


> Mark, I found the Race to Sub-30 here on the speedsolving forums a really good motivator for this. Well worth taking part in. Managed to graduate a few weeks ago and even though it didn't fully pay off in Exeter, my comp average there was 6 seconds ahead of Manchester's





mafergut said:


> Yeah, the race threads and, most of all, this thread are very good motivators. Seeing Chris up there in the elite of the oldies, close to legends like Roux and Ron van Bruchem is really impressive. I wish I could be close to them somedayk



I completely agree, I think the race threads add a lot of structure to progression and would highly recommend them. I participated in both the race to sub 30 and sub 20 on the forums and it always gave a lot of motivation but in small bits each week. Best of luck

@Miguel

I feel honored even getting close to the cubing legends. Ron is a massive inspiration for me and he takes the time to offer words of encouragement on Facebook to cubing achievements or goals I post having already commented on my average from Sunday.

@Mark

I didn't realise you had uploaded your 4BLD, have a link as I dont think I am subscribed.


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## mark49152 (Apr 5, 2016)

Thanks everyone for all the congrats and everything on this thread. I'm just catching up after getting home. It was a great comp, way more PBs than I expected, and I met my goals in my focus events, 4x4 and 4BLD. And great to meet up with Andy and Chris. Sorry Andy, I left early but didn't see you around to shake your hand again.

Funny comp incident: My 3x3 first round started with a 35 second disaster and ended with a PB average. And round two started with a 15.64 single, PB by about about 1.4 seconds, then went sharply downhill to an emphatic DNF average. Moral of the story, never take first solve as predicting your form for the round 

Focus events for London? Probably 3BLD and MBLD, and give the sighted events a break. I'm happy with all my sighted PBs now, and not confident I can give myself a good chance of beating any of those with only a month of practice. My 3x3 average is the one that's most beatable, but that would be through better composure and luck, rather than practice.



Selkie said:


> @Mark, I didn't realise you had uploaded your 4BLD, have a link as I dont think I am subscribed.



I haven't published it yet, so maybe Mike means the video I took at home. I have been exercising my new movie maker skills on the Exeter footage and did upload to Youtube earlier, but then before publishing, I noticed I put the wrong time in a video caption . Too tired. Will upload again tomorrow


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## Jason Green (Apr 5, 2016)

Logiqx said:


> Technically Niklas does a 3 cycle like an A-perm (twisting the same corners simultaneously) but from the beginners point of view it just swaps two corners and spins the U layer. The way i recognise the CP case is to look for two matching corner stickers (non U colour), AUF so they are above the corresponding side then look which corners need to be swapped.
> Once you know which cornrrs need to be swapped just AUF and do Niklas.
> 
> BTW. How much practice would you say you get Jason?
> ...


It's hard to say on average. Some nights like tonight when I bowl I may not get any because I'm tired. Some weekends when I'm home with the boys I might get 4 or 5 hours or more each day?

If I had to guess I'd put it at 2 hours a day average. If I pick it up after kids are asleep like normally I do, it's usually at least 1.5 hours even if I think I'll keep it brief.


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## Logiqx (Apr 5, 2016)

Jason Green said:


> It's hard to say on average. Some nights like tonight when I bowl I may not get any because I'm tired. Some weekends when I'm home with the boys I might get 4 or 5 hours or more each day?
> 
> If I had to guess I'd put it at 2 hours a day average. If I pick it up after kids are asleep like normally I do, it's usually at least 1.5 hours even if I think I'll keep it brief.


I think there may be some jealous people on this thread. 

In comparison to your progress, it took me 2.5 years to get to 23s global, probably averaging 45-60 mins a day (some days none, some days more).

Hopefully I can keep up my current routine to keep improving. it seems there is no substitute for practice.

Sent from my GT-I9305 using Tapatalk


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## h2f (Apr 5, 2016)

@Jason, I had an ao100 around 23 seconds in the middle of last year after two years of practice. You're improving fast.


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## mafergut (Apr 5, 2016)

@Jason: In my case, after 1 year of practise, my PB Ao100 was a bit over 24 seconds with 25 sec being the norm. PB Ao5 was around 20.80. Funny that my PB single was 12.49, which almost took another year to beat 
It took a bit over 2 years to start getting sub-20 Ao100s once in a while and now, after 2,5 years I assume I could get sub-20 average most of the time but I don't know because with such a diversity of events I have not done a proper Ao100 in more than 1 month.
So, I agree with the guys, you are improving quite fast. At least significantly faster than most if not all of us over 40.


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## newtonbase (Apr 5, 2016)

Logiqx said:


> I think there may be some jealous people on this thread.
> 
> Sent from my GT-I9305 using Tapatalk



I think you might be right! 

But, this Thursday I have a day trip to Glasgow to see my Gran so I get a good 4 hours of airport/flying time to cube. Also, my cubing nephew will be there so I get to cube with him too. I'll be teaching him 4x4.


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## Logiqx (Apr 5, 2016)

Super excited about todays times!

Ao5=15.00, Ao12=15.87, Ao25=16.41

Edit: That's 0.6-0.7 faster than my previous PBs for Ao5 and Ao12.



Spoiler



Title: 3x3x3 Cube
Scrambler: 3x3x3 Simple
Session: 202
# of solving: 25
# of penalty: 0
# of DNF: 0
Std Dev: 1.439
Best of all: 12.998
Worst of all: 19.281
Average of all: 16.415
Best Avg of 5: 15.008
Best Avg of 12: 15.870
Best Avg of 25: 16.415
Avg of Inspection: 1185:56.091
---- Generated by KingEn Timer v3.3

Solving times: 18.595 15.804 15.883 18.706 16.120 17.640 16.718 16.997 19.281 16.111 15.090 12.998 19.131 16.982 16.379 17.686 14.808 15.071 16.878 15.147 14.657 18.261 16.729 13.802 14.368


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## mafergut (Apr 5, 2016)

@Michael: Wow! Talking about fast progress...


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## Logiqx (Apr 5, 2016)

mafergut said:


> @Michael: Wow! Talking about fast progress...


Today was a good day for my lookahead. I'm keen to get closer to Chris and stay ahead of Jason. You guys are great motivators. 

Sent from my GT-I9305 using Tapatalk


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## Shaky Hands (Apr 5, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> And great to meet up with Andy and Chris. Sorry Andy, I left early but didn't see you around to shake your hand again.



No worries Mark. Hope you had a good trip back. See you in London.


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## mark49152 (Apr 5, 2016)

Yeah that is awesome progress, Mike and Jason. I watched Chris's 3x3 video from Exeter and that's a lesson in smooth, steady turning as well. I will need to change my 3x3 approach to catch up with you guys . 

Nice 5x5 solves as well Chris - and Andy, I see they entered your 5x5 times so you now have official WCA results, nice! Big improvement in 3x3 and 2x2 averages as well. Congrats to both on the PBs.

Also thanks Mike for updating the wrinkly rankings.

Meanwhile, here's my 4BLD...


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## h2f (Apr 5, 2016)

@Mike, Great times. Congrats! Sub-15 very soon.

@Marki, Awsome. I have no words: good memo time and nice execution with fixing mistakes and only few pauses.


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## mafergut (Apr 5, 2016)

Logiqx said:


> Today was a good day for my lookahead. I'm keen to get closer to Chris and stay ahead of Jason. You guys are great motivators.



That's a good sign. I find lately that when my lookahead seems to be nice my fingers don't want to obey and I lock up a lot and when my fingers are fine then it's my lookahead that's missing. Anyway, I'll have to be patient and keep practising.



mark49152 said:


> Meanwhile, here's my 4BLD...



So nice, Mark. Without those mistakes (incredible that you could undo them and end up with a solved cube!!!) it could have been sub-8 or close. What was your race target time here in the thread? Sub-7? It certainly feels attainable for you. Great job!


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## Shaky Hands (Apr 5, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> Andy, I see they entered your 5x5 times so you now have official WCA results, nice! Big improvement in 3x3 and 2x2 averages as well. Congrats to both on the PBs.



Thanks, I'm wondering if I should have stood up for my 5x5 and 3x3 solves on Sunday like I did for 4x4 and 2x2 on Saturday. As despite the 4x4 pop making me DNF on 2nd solve I found this easier with the table setup.

Very happy with my 4x4 progression. Should be able to make the average cut on this in the future.

For 2x2 I've done no practice so I think the improvement is just a result of luckier solves this time. My slowest solve (the 5th one) was as I only know one of the 2x2 PLL's. Will learn the other for the next comp, shouldn't be too hard. 2x2 just doesn't really inspire me.

5x5 I can do much better although nice to have a time registered anyway. I warned the judge he'd probably want a chair for one of my solves and thanked him for his patience at the end of it!

If my 3x3 average hadn't improved I'd have questioned what was going wrong with me in comps. Wasn't really expecting to beat the single at comp although I've beaten it by 7 seconds at home.



mark49152 said:


> Meanwhile, here's my 4BLD...
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vjafVw0heyE



Very impressive. Were you aware of the judge change during this or was it a surprise when you took the BF off?


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## Selkie (Apr 5, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> I think you might be right!
> 
> But, this Thursday I have a day trip to Glasgow to see my Gran so I get a good 4 hours of airport/flying time to cube. Also, my cubing nephew will be there so I get to cube with him too. I'll be teaching him 4x4.



Cubing on a plane gets more strange looks than the train. I am regularly in Glasgow on business and always take the opportunity of cubing in flight  Also have a couple of days trips to London in next fortnight, both my train so hopefully some extra practice time.



Logiqx said:


> Super excited about todays times!
> 
> Ao5=15.00, Ao12=15.87, Ao25=16.41
> 
> Edit: That's 0.6-0.7 faster than my previous PBs for Ao5 and Ao12.



Just wow sir, that is amazing progress. Simply awesome, you'll be overtaking me in no time at this rate 



mark49152 said:


> Yeah that is awesome progress, Mike and Jason. I watched Chris's 3x3 video from Exeter and that's a lesson in smooth, steady turning as well. I will need to change my 3x3 approach to catch up with you guys .
> 
> Nice 5x5 solves as well Chris - and Andy, I see they entered your 5x5 times so you now have official WCA results, nice! Big improvement in 3x3 and 2x2 averages as well. Congrats to both on the PBs.
> 
> ...



I tried a higher TPS approach for round 1 and got the disappointing 18.02 average so felt i had to slow it down for round two. Second round was pleasing and thanks for the kind words Mark. Lots of lock up on last layer algs though, wanting to be self critical.

Awesome solves, I was looking from the next table whilst judging big BLD. 4x4 BLD seems mind blowing enough but then to have the ability to back track errors. awesome mate :tu



Shaky Hands said:


> Thanks, I'm wondering if I should have stood up for my 5x5 and 3x3 solves on Sunday like I did for 4x4 and 2x2 on Saturday. As despite the 4x4 pop making me DNF on 2nd solve I found this easier with the table setup.
> 
> Very happy with my 4x4 progression. Should be able to make the average cut on this in the future.



Said at the time if the judge didnt DNF then it would stand and really pleased you got it official. I'm sure you can make clock average cut next time too :tu


----------------

I am currently working on:-

5x5 Hoya Method - Wow love the method and sub 2:45 already. Don't think I will switch before London but definitely after

First Pair Tracking - Trying to work on the tracking of the first pair to get more fluidity from cross


----------



## muchacho (Apr 5, 2016)

Logiqx said:


> Super excited about todays times!
> 
> Ao5=15.00, Ao12=15.87, Ao25=16.41
> 
> Edit: That's 0.6-0.7 faster than my previous PBs for Ao5 and Ao12.


Wow! One should improve slower the faster he is, but it doesn't look like that's your case.


----------



## Logiqx (Apr 5, 2016)

muchacho said:


> Wow! One should improve slower the faster he is, but it doesn't look like that's your case.



Thanks. I think I've said this before but two things have significantly changed in the past few months.

My practice time has doubled and whilst trying to keep the noise down, I can focus on efficiency / lookahead and trying new things during my cross / F2L.

It's interesting to see how someone's rate of improvement can change so much with more / better practice.


----------



## Lid (Apr 5, 2016)

A package arrived today, with SS Gigaminx, CB G4 4x4 & GuanSu 4x4.

So here are my new Minx & Stickerless "armys" 
Need a 2x2 (maybe I'll get the new QiYi Cavs), plus a 6x6 (not getting the pink AoShi ...) to complete the "set".

http://imgur.com/a/tllmW

Megaminxes: DaYan Ridged, SS Gigaminx, YuHu, 2nd row; DaYan with mf8 tiles, 2x Mefferts.
SL: YuHu, AoFu, YuXin, CBoys, CBoys, YuXin, QiYi, 2nd row; QiYi, AoLong, QiYi, QiYi, AoLong, GuoGuan, HuaLong, LingYun.


----------



## muchacho (Apr 5, 2016)

I wish I were not color blind to those greens or there were more colors to choose from, then mines would be also all stickerless.

Do you prefer a Dayan with ridges or with tiles?


----------



## mafergut (Apr 5, 2016)

@Stefan: Wow! The stickerless fever is so contagious. Maybe I will get that illness as well  I'm sure you'll love your SS Giga. I have also heard news about the QiYi Cavs 2x2 and I'm certainly willing to try it as a proper backup main to my Dayan (who knows, maybe even be my new main?) but it's a bit cheap so I'm not sure. If you buy it please tell us how it performs. If it's not good, Dayan also makes the Zhanchi 2x2 in stickerless, even though the shades are not beautiful 

Also, maybe I'll make another 2x2 video this week. I liked the 1st scramble in the weekly comp #14  My time, though, should have been a bit better but I'm not complaining about 2nd week in a row with a sub-5 average at 2x2.

Tip: Full 1-look possible on 2nd try (not when I timed it for the WC). I wish I had gotten this scramble for 2BLD, I could have beaten my 2BLD PB by... a lot by solving with Ortega instead of with OP


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## Lid (Apr 5, 2016)

muchacho said:


> Do you prefer a Dayan with ridges or with tiles?


My main is one of my Mefferts, but if I had to go with Dayan, I would choose my tiled one. I guess it's hard after so many years with tiles to change style/preference.

12 first solves with the 4x4 CB: 1:10.19, so thumbs up so far, getting some minor locks hope those goes away with time.


----------



## Selkie (Apr 5, 2016)

mafergut said:


> My time, though, should have been a bit better but I'm not complaining about 2nd week in a row with a sub-5 average at 2x2.



Great averages!



Lid said:


> My main is one of my Mefferts, but if I had to go with Dayan, I would choose my tiled one. I guess it's hard after so many years with tiles to change style/preference.
> 
> 12 first solves with the 4x4 CB: 1:10.19, so thumbs up so far, getting some minor locks hope those goes away with time.



The CB does have minor locking early on Stefan, especially on the inner layers. Have to say mine cleared in about 200 solves or so and as you probably know set loads and loads of 4x4 PBs on it in the last few weeks.

@Stickerless

Should get my 6x6, 7x7, Skewb and a few other goodies just after the weekend

----------------

Watched videos on Hoya before but following seeing Mark solve Hoya and after some walkthrough solves by Adam Greenwood in Exeter at the weekend I have been practicing a little. Have to say I love the method. Have a sub 2:15.x single 2:24.x Ao5 and 2:28.x ao12. Will probably still use freeslice at the end of the month in London but after that its going to be Hoya all the way


----------



## muchacho (Apr 5, 2016)

mafergut said:


> Also, maybe I'll make another 2x2 video this week. I liked the 1st scramble in the weekly comp #14  My time, though, should have been a bit better but I'm not complaining about 2nd week in a row with a sub-5 average at 2x2.
> 
> Tip: Full 1-look possible on 2nd try (not when I timed it for the WC). I wish I had gotten this scramble for 2BLD, I could have beaten my 2BLD PB by... a lot by solving with Ortega instead of with OP



Was this your solution? I only saw that there would be nothing solved in the bottom.
https://alg.cubing.net/?setup=F-_R2...R2-
R_U_R-_U_R_U2_R-
R2_F2_R2
U
&puzzle=2x2x2


----------



## mafergut (Apr 5, 2016)

muchacho said:


> Was this your solution? I only saw that there would be nothing solved in the bottom.
> https://alg.cubing.net/?setup=F-_R2...R2-
> R_U_R-_U_R_U2_R-
> R2_F2_R2
> ...



No, I went for another face but this one is quite nice also because of the double diag swap PBL 
What time did you get on that?

I did this (spoiler for those that still did not do WC 2x2 this week):


Spoiler



x2 // Inspection, I predict OLL and see a move cancellation
U2 R' U R U2 R' // Cancellation of face into Sune
R2 U' B2 U2 R2 U' R2 // PBL
U' // AUF

After finishing the average, on a second, longer inspection, it was easy enough to 1-look the entire solve


----------



## muchacho (Apr 5, 2016)

That's like magic to me.

Mine was 5.63

__
_Skewb PBs
Single: 6.496 (was 7.784)
Ao5: 11.887 (13.138)
Ao12: 14.530 (15.648)_


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## Selkie (Apr 5, 2016)

> Watched videos on Hoya before but following seeing Mark solve Hoya and after some walkthrough solves by Adam Greenwood in Exeter at the weekend I have been practicing a little. Have to say I love the method. Have a sub 2:15.x single 2:24.x Ao5 and 2:28.x ao12. Will probably still use freeslice at the end of the month in London but after that its going to be Hoya all the way



New 2:06.14 Hoya PB 






Excuse the "Bless you" mid solve. My wife sneezed


----------



## h2f (Apr 5, 2016)

Maybe I will give Hoya a third try. Im practicingn yau5 in last few weeks and my times are around freeslice.


----------



## newtonbase (Apr 5, 2016)

A Qiyi 2x2?! Better get one. I'm getting a spare G4 too as I love mine so much. Anything else I need to own before I check out?


----------



## mafergut (Apr 5, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> A Qiyi 2x2?! Better get one. I'm getting a spare G4 too as I love mine so much. Anything else I need to own before I check out?



Nothing I can think of right now, except the list of official WCA puzzles. So, if you have everything, that's it. Gonna have to get a QiYi Cavs 2x2 myself  Not sure I can wait until you guys tell me how it is and then 1 month for lightake to send it to me 
My Aofu GT still is missing and the tracking says it's at Guanzhou terminal or however it's written. It will not arrive on time for my birthday


----------



## newtonbase (Apr 5, 2016)

O find Champion's Cube Store much faster than Lightake.


----------



## Jason Green (Apr 5, 2016)

I always wake up to a load of updates, sometimes I read them before I get out of bed.  I think of comments I want to make but then have a hard time remembering when I get around to replying.

Mark, I subscribed to your YouTube now also. That will make it nicer for me NOT to miss your videos when I catch up on YouTube some evenings. So I'll get to watch that awesome 4 BLD later!

Awesome averages Mike! Glad I'm part of the motivation, as you all certainly are for me!!

Well, I guess you guys convinced me I progressed pretty fast so far. I certainly don't think it's because of any special ability I have, but just that I've been lucky enough to find quite a lot of practice time. If you think about it, that's probably a major factor in kids getting so good as well. Sure they have more nimble minds and fingers, but being able to spend many hours a day cubing helps! I saw Anthony Brooks saying he probably cubed 5 or 6 hours a day for the first 3 years (on a video cast about the Beyond Rubik's exhibit).


----------



## MarcelP (Apr 5, 2016)

Logiqx said:


> Super excited about todays times!
> 
> Ao5=15.00, Ao12=15.87, Ao25=16.41
> 
> ...



Nice!! Time for some vids?


----------



## newtonbase (Apr 5, 2016)

30.25 AO12 PB with a Thunderclap.


----------



## Shaky Hands (Apr 5, 2016)

That's great Mark, congratulations. Did you finish up the G-perms in the end?

Well done too for the Hoya solve Chris, plus Michael for his own successes.

I managed 3x3 PB's earlier today for Ao5 (23.33), Ao12 (25.60), Ao25 (26.43) and Ao100 (28.12). Looks like my best run since about 2000 solves ago.


----------



## earth2dan (Apr 5, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> O find Champion's Cube Store much faster than Lightake.



Yep, much much much faster. I'm waiting on two Lightake orders right now, one is from January. They also messed up my most recent order for an AoFu GT and sent the wrong one. They were able to recall the package before it left the country and fix it, but now it's going to be even longer before I get it. I've never had a CCS order take longer than 3 weeks to arrive. I ordered my 13x13 from CCS and it was here in two days! TWO DAYS!

I do like the prices at Lightake, and their customer service is usually pretty good, but these waits are killing me. At this point I would gladly pay the extra $10 I saved right now just to get my puzzles


----------



## newtonbase (Apr 5, 2016)

Shaky Hands said:


> That's great Mark, congratulations. Did you finish up the G-perms in the end?



I do know them but there's a bit too much thinking time involved. Ga is the only one I'm confident with but Gc is still quicker than 2 look. 

I'm going to have to have a look at Hoya after North London.


----------



## newtonbase (Apr 5, 2016)

earth2dan said:


> Yep, much much much faster. I'm waiting on two Lightake orders right now, one is from January. They also messed up my most recent order for an AoFu GT and sent the wrong one. They were able to recall the package before it left the country and fix it, but now it's going to be even longer before I get it. I've never had a CCS order take longer than 3 weeks to arrive. I ordered my 13x13 from CCS and it was here in two days! TWO DAYS!
> 
> I do like the prices at Lightake, and their customer service is usually pretty good, but these waits are killing me. At this point I would gladly pay the extra $10 I saved right now just to get my puzzles



2 days is amazing. 1 to 2 weeks is fairly typical and is half the time of Lightake. As you say, Lightake can be cheap but when I sit there thinking I've saved a dollar but could have had my order a week earlier it is usually with regret.


----------



## earth2dan (Apr 5, 2016)

Selkie said:


> New 2:06.14 Hoya PB
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0hYNWD28Pn8&feature=youtu.be
> 
> Excuse the "Bless you" mid solve. My wife sneezed



Very nice. I've been doing more 5x5 than any other event lately and this really makes me want to give Hoya5 a go


----------



## Logiqx (Apr 5, 2016)

MarcelP said:


> Nice!! Time for some vids?



I'll have a go when I'm at home this weekend. I might get funny looks on the train.


----------



## mark49152 (Apr 6, 2016)

mafergut said:


> So nice, Mark. Without those mistakes (incredible that you could undo them and end up with a solved cube!!!) it could have been sub-8 or close. What was your race target time here in the thread? Sub-7? It certainly feels attainable for you. Great job!


Thanks (everyone!). Yes the target was sub-7 but that is some way off. This solve could have been sub-9 for sure and I have a few of those at home. Currently my best memos are around 4:30 and best executions around 3:30 so sub-8 might be within reach on a lucky day . 

For the next few weeks my plan is to work on 3BLD memo. I need to push that to be faster anyway, and getting into faster memo habits will hopefully have a knock-on effect on my 4BLD times.



Shaky Hands said:


> Very impressive. Were you aware of the judge change during this or was it a surprise when you took the BF off?


No I wasn't aware, but it wasn't a big surprise. James is a busy man and I appreciate him giving up his time to judge me.



Selkie said:


> Watched videos on Hoya before but following seeing Mark solve Hoya and after some walkthrough solves by Adam Greenwood in Exeter at the weekend I have been practicing a little. Have to say I love the method. Have a sub 2:15.x single 2:24.x Ao5 and 2:28.x ao12. Will probably still use freeslice at the end of the month in London but after that its going to be Hoya all the way


Hoya FTW. Would you still use Freeslice for L8E or switch to AvG instead?

Here's some of my solves from Exeter. The 5x5 solve is Hoya of course . It wasn't the fastest but I chose it because it had the best angle.


----------



## h2f (Apr 6, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> For the next few weeks my plan is to work on 3BLD memo. I need to push that to be faster anyway, and getting into faster memo habits will hopefully have a knock-on effect on my 4BLD times.



Thats my plan too - I've fihished my 3style list of algs (they are based only on few tricks, it's rather adv m2) and next I'm going to prepare my list of words. I have one but it needs correction. I'm looking through a list of Roman Strakhow (luckily I know Russian a little bit) looking for a better words/images for strange pairs: AE, OU etc. I've done 10% of it but I've noticed my memo is much better. I hope this will let me push memo to 15 seconds and whole solve to be around 1 minute.

I gave also a try of Hoya and I found it much better than Yau5 - it's similiar to pure reduction which I prefer over Yau5. I did 5 times without practice of Hoya and they are similiar to my normal times. It's promising cause it shows with a little practice I might be sub-3. I will back to it after a competiotion next week.


----------



## Shaky Hands (Apr 6, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> Here's some of my solves from Exeter. The 5x5 solve is Hoya of course . It wasn't the fastest but I chose it because it had the best angle.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yNcXlT9B7EI



Love the editing of the 2x2 solves!


----------



## muchacho (Apr 6, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> Here's some of my solves from Exeter. The 5x5 solve is Hoya of course . It wasn't the fastest but I chose it because it had the best angle.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yNcXlT9B7EI


The 2x2 solves looked way too fast for my eyes 



earth2dan said:


> I've never had a CCS order take longer than 3 weeks to arrive. I ordered my 13x13 from CCS and it was here in two days! TWO DAYS!





newtonbase said:


> 2 days is amazing. 1 to 2 weeks is fairly typical



Nice to hear that, because I ordered a Guansu and some megaminx tiles there 2 weeks ago, in the mail they send me this "Usually,it will takes about 2-8 weeks for delivery or even a little more days." got me nervous. By the tracking number apparently the package left China 10 days ago.

___
Skewb PBs
Ao5: 10.272 (was 11.887)
Ao12: 11.704 (14.530)
Mo100: 15.789_


----------



## Selkie (Apr 6, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> Hoya FTW. Would you still use Freeslice for L8E or switch to AvG instead?





earth2dan said:


> Very nice. I've been doing more 5x5 than any other event lately and this really makes me want to give Hoya5 a go





newtonbase said:


> I'm going to have to have a look at Hoya after North London.





earth2dan said:


> Very nice. I've been doing more 5x5 than any other event lately and this really makes me want to give Hoya5 a go





h2f said:


> Maybe I will give Hoya a third try. Im practicingn yau5 in last few weeks and my times are around freeslice.





h2f said:


> I gave also a try of Hoya and I found it much better than Yau5 - it's similiar to pure reduction which I prefer over Yau5.



Thanks for the comments all. I was down to sub 2:15 globally with freeslice and I fell I could possibly get down to that for Hoya by London comp? Its a great method with great lookahead and lots of lovely little tricks and nuances you can learn or not learn. Love it.

@Mark - Funny you should mention that. I have found freeslice highly unoptimised for the last four edges when the cross edges are in place so will be switching to AVG for all last 8 edges, yes but that will be after London.



newtonbase said:


> A Qiyi 2x2?! Better get one. I'm getting a spare G4 too as I love mine so much. Anything else I need to own before I check out?



Oh I need a stickerless one of course 



newtonbase said:


> 30.25 AO12 PB with a Thunderclap.



Brilliant 



mark49152 said:


> Here's some of my solves from Exeter. The 5x5 solve is Hoya of course . It wasn't the fastest but I chose it because it had the best angle.]



Nice video Mark :tu


----------



## Logiqx (Apr 6, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> 30.25 AO12 PB with a Thunderclap.



Nice. Sub-30 soon Mark!

Meanwhile in commuter land... another low-16 session average on the train. wtf!



Spoiler



Title: 3x3x3 Cube
Scrambler: 3x3x3 Simple
Session: 203
# of solving: 18
# of penalty: 0
# of DNF: 0
Std Dev: 1.271
Best of all: 12.368
Worst of all: 18.745
Average of all: 16.281
Best Avg of 5: 15.113
Best Avg of 12: 15.740
Avg of Inspection: 1726:58.161
---- Generated by KingEn Timer v3.3

Solving times: 17.682 16.119 15.329 18.745 18.509 12.368 14.841 16.031 15.628 14.870 15.804 17.217 18.382 17.334 16.254 13.916 15.505 17.084


----------



## newtonbase (Apr 6, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> Here's some of my solves from Exeter. The 5x5 solve is Hoya of course . It wasn't the fastest but I chose it because it had the best angle.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yNcXlT9B7EI



Some nice solves and I liked the 2x2 medley. 

Just done an AO50 on 2x2 ranging from 5s to a stunning 44s. If I could eliminate errors I'd be comfortably sub 10s.


----------



## MarcelP (Apr 6, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> Here's some of my solves from Exeter.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yNcXlT9B7EI



The 15 was really sweet. Man, I need a nice official single now!


----------



## Selkie (Apr 6, 2016)

Motivated by such great progress in 3x3 my you guys I just did an average of 100. I should have filmed from the start but only filmed the second 50 and my hands were tired at that point and my solves a little more camera shy.

The best Ao50 is a PB and sooo close to sub 15.5

stats: (hide)
number of times: 100/100
best time: 10.68
worst time: 25.67

current avg5: 17.32 (σ = 0.43)
best avg5: 14.66 (σ = 0.60)

current avg12: 16.93 (σ = 1.37)
best avg12: 15.04 (σ = 1.30)

current avg50: 16.34 (σ = 1.30)
*best avg50: 15.53 (σ = 1.19)*

current avg100: 15.93 (σ = 1.30)
best avg100: 15.93 (σ = 1.30)

session avg: 15.93 (σ = 1.30)
session mean: 16.01

times (reset, import):
13.22, 16.28, 14.67, 14.06, 15.26, 15.81, 14.30, 19.23, 16.34, 13.63, 17.85, 13.81, 16.60, 15.16, 13.52, 16.77, 15.42, 10.68, 15.45, 13.65, 17.53, 17.53, 17.26, 17.99, 13.62, 15.95, 17.52, 15.75, 15.80, 13.72, 15.35, 14.70, 16.86, 14.00, 16.04, 15.25, 16.16, 15.51, 15.57, 12.82, 15.32, 16.03, 17.29, 16.24, 15.12, 14.59, 15.10, 18.79, 15.08, 15.69, 16.22, 15.36, 15.17, 25.67, 15.77, 15.35, 18.52, 19.05, 14.64, 15.84, 13.71, 16.16, 15.56, 15.68, 14.28, 16.51, 15.92, 15.16, 16.04, 17.37, 19.53, 15.86, 15.63, 15.46, 15.33, 17.65, 15.68, 15.88, 16.17, 15.69, 15.97, 14.49, 13.37, 19.24, 16.84, 18.32, 15.24, 17.84, 14.10, 14.19, 19.55, 16.01, 16.47+, 17.67, 16.95, 16.83, 19.85, 17.64, 16.49, 17.50


----------



## Shaky Hands (Apr 6, 2016)

Very impressive Chris. Only 6 of these are within the range of my PB. Good to see you banging in all these tiny times.


----------



## Logiqx (Apr 6, 2016)

Selkie said:


> Motivated by such great progress in 3x3 my you guys I just did an average of 100. I should have filmed from the start but only filmed the second 50 and my hands were tired at that point and my solves a little more camera shy.
> 
> The best Ao50 is a PB and sooo close to sub 15.5
> 
> ...


Very nice!

Sent from my GT-I9305 using Tapatalk


----------



## h2f (Apr 6, 2016)

@Chirs, very very nice ao100.

I did few solves with Hoya and got 2:57.34 single after few solves. Last 8 edges were freeslice. Luckily I start remember all Hoya tricks with tredges. Mark, do you do AvG with all 8 tredges or just 4. When I was watching your solve I wasnt sure but it looked like you do it with 8.


----------



## Lid (Apr 6, 2016)

@Chris, very nice

Did a timed gigaminx solve today... 21:50 ... need my own colorscheme ...

2nd day with CB G4: 1:05.94 a12, almost PB

(55.44), 1:05.41, 1:14.60, 1:09.05, 1:07.17, (1:15.02), 55.85, 1:13.82, 1:02.51, 1:10.71, 1:02.10, 58.21


----------



## Jason Green (Apr 6, 2016)

Chris, you'll upload your ao50?  I'll have some good YouTube this evening with you and Mark if so.


----------



## Selkie (Apr 6, 2016)

Thanks all, really pleased since I have not done a whole lot of 3x3 practice recently.

Sorry I didn't Jason as the second ao50 was sup 16. Will try and get a sub 15.6 Ao50 on film in the next few days.


----------



## Chree (Apr 6, 2016)

Selkie said:


> Thanks all, really pleased since I have not done a whole lot of 3x3 practice recently.
> 
> Sorry I didn't Jason as the second ao50 was sup 16. Will try and get a sub 15.6 Ao50 on film in the next few days.



You're progressing really quickly  how often do you get to do long averages like that?

Edit: Breaks help. Sometimes when I don't get to do a lot of practice, when I finally come back to it, I get a little bit of a speed boost. Albeit, temporarily.


----------



## kbrune (Apr 6, 2016)

Man this thread is on fire. Can't keep up! Too many posts I wanted to comment on but didn't have time. 

Congrats on everyone's comp results and improvements. Keep up the good work! 

@newton. I felt the same way about Pyra. After 2-3 months of solving I'm finally starting to be able to solve more hen 1 piece during inspection and getting a better understanding of where hidden pieces will go.


----------



## Selkie (Apr 6, 2016)

Lid said:


> @Chris, very nice
> 
> Did a timed gigaminx solve today... 21:50 ... need my own colorscheme ...
> 
> ...



I need a gigaminx, look really fun though I suspect it would take me over an hour  Nice times on the 4x4 Stefan, the CB losing the locking. Think mine has ~500 solves now and is as smooth as butter. Love the CB G4 so much and cannot see anything replacing it in the near future. PB Ao5 1.00.8x, Ao12 1.05.xx so we are very similar in times 



Chree said:


> You're progressing really quickly  how often do you get to do long averages like that?
> 
> Edit: Breaks help. Sometimes when I don't get to do a lot of practice, when I finally come back to it, I get a little bit of a speed boost. Albeit, temporarily.



I was sub 20 about 4 years ago, sub 18 6 months after then. There I stayed on a very long plateau averaging 17.8x for 3 years. 6 months ago with some concentrated practice again I got to sub 17 (16.7ish). The last 6 months have involved a lot of practice and sub 16 overall. Very recent improvement, like this week. That is probably a combination of switching to stickerless which has helped most times and recently being to a comp which always motivates me


----------



## Jason Green (Apr 6, 2016)

This makes me very excited! A note from the principal!!


----------



## Shaky Hands (Apr 7, 2016)

Great to hear of the advance excitement Jason. Hope it's a really positive experience for all involved. When's the big date?


----------



## Selkie (Apr 7, 2016)

Looks like an awesome take up Jason


----------



## Logiqx (Apr 7, 2016)

In response to Marcel's suggestion for a video...

I've had a couple of sub-16 averages of 12 this week so this one is somewhat slower. Without the +2 penalties this would have been 16.44 but with the penalties included it is 16.84.

Additional things to mention:
1) CN - 6 white cross, 3 yellow cross, 2 green cross, 1 red cross
2) Failure to stop timer during solve 7 added 0.5s to the solve
3) Massive pause during solve 9 added 4.5s to the solve!

Cube: Gans 356


----------



## mafergut (Apr 7, 2016)

Yesterday a kid asked me in the train if I could show him how I solved the cube 
You are going to do that for real for a lot of kids now, Jason! I envy you. Enjoy!!! Maybe you'll be training the next Feliks.


----------



## muchacho (Apr 7, 2016)

Nice solves Mike!
edit: and nice reaction ;-)

Jason, ask for reinforcements for those kids!

3x3: 19.553 Ao5 PB (first sub-20, previously it was 20.740 from 5 weeks ago), solves 2-4 are also 18.945 Mo3.

5. 19.326 U' F2 U' R2 D' L2 D L2 B2 D2 L2 F D2 R' L' B R' U F D' R U2
4. 20.462 R2 L2 D' U' B2 U B2 L2 U' B2 L' B U B' R L2 U' B' F' R' D U'
3. 17.504 U' R2 U2 B2 U' R2 D' B2 U' L2 D L' U F' U2 R F2 R L B' R U
2. 18.871 B2 D' R2 L2 D L2 U2 B2 U' B2 R B' L F' L F2 R2 U B' F
1. 26.917 L2 B2 F2 U' L2 U2 R2 D2 F2 D2 F D B' F2 R L D R2 F' U' R2 L


----------



## mafergut (Apr 7, 2016)

muchacho said:


> 3x3: 19.553 Ao5 PB (first sub-20, previously it was 20.740 from 5 weeks ago), solves 2-4 are also 18.945 Mo3.



Nice average. You broke sub-20, must be a nice feeling!


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## muchacho (Apr 7, 2016)

I'm as happy as surprised (today I was averaging 25-26 seconds before that ao5 happened).


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## Selkie (Apr 7, 2016)

@mike

Nice average. Did not realise you were CN 

@David

Congratulations on the sub 20


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## kbrune (Apr 7, 2016)

It's about time they added a "like" function on here. Especially for this thread. Nice to be able to support a post when you don't have time to post a reply.


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## mafergut (Apr 7, 2016)

I'm still trying to come to terms with the new interface but I'm not against the change. Now the @ + name that we use regularly here will point to the username after the at sign so, we will have to stop writing @ + David and write @kbrune or @muchacho  Not sure I like that.

Also, all the "last post read" points in my subcriptions (now my "watched threads") were reset to some point 1 month ago but that's just a temporary nuissance.


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## MarcelP (Apr 7, 2016)

Logiqx said:


> In response to Marcel's suggestion for a video...
> Cube: Gans 356


Mike, that is awesome!!! Can you post the F2L trick shown at 1.36? That looked nifty.

EDIT: I laughed so hard when you flipped the finger to the screen.


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## Logiqx (Apr 7, 2016)

MarcelP said:


> Mike, that is awesome!!! Can you post the F2L trick shown at 1.36? That looked nifty.
> 
> EDIT: I laughed so hard when you flipped the finger to the screen.



Thanks. I thought you might like my response to the timer hiccup. 

The F2L alg at 1:36 is the equivalent of case 23 but from the back. I used R2 U2 (R U R' U) R2.


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## mafergut (Apr 7, 2016)

New 4x4 PB single 1:17.56 but with PLL skip. Still averaging around 1:40. So far from you guys...


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## MarcelP (Apr 7, 2016)

Logiqx said:


> The F2L alg at 1:36 is the equivalent of case 23 but from the back. I used R2 U2 (R U R' U) R2.


Cool. I did not know that one.. It is also not very intuïtive so I might never have found that. 



mafergut said:


> New 4x4 PB single 1:17.56 but with PLL skip. Still averaging around 1:40. So far from you guys...


I had a 1:17 PB also. It was in the WC 1st solve  Also PLL skip without parity.


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## Selkie (Apr 7, 2016)

Logiqx said:


> Thanks. I thought you might like my response to the timer hiccup.
> 
> The F2L alg at 1:36 is the equivalent of case 23 but from the back. I used R2 U2 (R U R' U) R2.


Damn, lovely alg. I am really going to be targeting optimisation of bad F2L cases with algs next month and love this one. Thanks Mike


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## mark49152 (Apr 7, 2016)

R' U' R U R' U R U2 R' U R. More moves but R2 algs kill my lookahead. 

Congrats on the 4x4 PBs! 

And congrats Mark A on the 3x3 PB earlier. I struggle to keep up with this thread


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## Jason Green (Apr 7, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> Here's some of my solves from Exeter. The 5x5 solve is Hoya of course . It wasn't the fastest but I chose it because it had the best angle.



Mark, sometimes I post feedback on YouTube, hope you see it eventually! This was a great video, thanks!



Shaky Hands said:


> Great to hear of the advance excitement Jason. Hope it's a really positive experience for all involved. When's the big date?





Selkie said:


> Looks like an awesome take up Jason





mafergut said:


> Yesterday a kid asked me in the train if I could show him how I solved the cube
> You are going to do that for real for a lot of kids now, Jason! I envy you. Enjoy!!! Maybe you'll be training the next Feliks.



Start date is 4/25! Thanks everyone!



muchacho said:


> Jason, ask for reinforcements for those kids!
> 
> 3x3: 19.553 Ao5 PB (first sub-20, previously it was 20.740 from 5 weeks ago), solves 2-4 are also 18.945 Mo3.



Well it's supposed to be me and two teachers right now, we'll see!

So this is crazy, I had my first sub 20 ao5 last night too! I tried to share the picture but the site was down for the update. I'm still having trouble with Tapatalk working with it today. Does anyone else use Tapatalk, and is it working? I like the new site, although multi-quote is a little buggy between pages it seems.

Anyway, I first had a 19.90 ao5, and then rolled it into this 18.87.


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## Logiqx (Apr 8, 2016)

Wow. Impressive stuff Jason!

I use Tapatalk but it hasn't worked since last night.


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## ryuusei86 (Apr 8, 2016)

So the last time I posted here, I was regretting having as many as eight 3x3s. But after researching a bit about sticker mods, and in particular after placing an order with Oliver's Stickers, I realized I needed more. Especially since I have yet to try a Gans 356, plus I don't have a "travel cube", so of course I needed a 50 mm ZhanChi. That makes ten 3x3s and I think I will still have more sticker sets than I'll be able to use, though I don't want to think about that too much.

On another note, I did get a 3x3x2 since I read somewhere that this is a good choice for a "first cuboid." But I can't remember what the suggestion was for a "second cuboid," though it was probably either 3x3x4 or 3x3x5. Does anyone have any opinions on this? Maybe I should go with the 3x3x4 since at least it isn't shape-shifting?

Also I restickered my Megaminx but I have yet to scramble it, or my Fisher cube for that matter.  My Cyclone Boys 5x5 is still in the box, but I will resticker it too.


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## Selkie (Apr 8, 2016)

Jason Green said:


> Anyway, I first had a 19.90 ao5, and then rolled it into this 18.87.
> 
> View attachment 6081



Just wow Jason, I don't have the words! You are on fire mate. What ever you are doing keep it up. I would guess my first sub 20 avg till sub 19 must have been a month at least.

I have to say this thread is invaluable to me and I believe others. So much progression in last couple of months by you guys. Just awesome elderly friends, keep it up


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## Chree (Apr 8, 2016)

Selkie said:


> Watched videos on Hoya before but following seeing Mark solve Hoya and after some walkthrough solves by Adam Greenwood in Exeter at the weekend I have been practicing a little. Have to say I love the method. Have a sub 2:15.x single 2:24.x Ao5 and 2:28.x ao12. Will probably still use freeslice at the end of the month in London but after that its going to be Hoya all the way



Welcome to the Hoya Army 

Who else uses Hoya on this thread besides Mark? And does anyone else use it for cubes bigger than 5x5?


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## Jason Green (Apr 8, 2016)

Chree said:


> Welcome to the Hoya Army
> 
> Who else uses Hoya on this thread besides Mark? And does anyone else use it for cubes bigger than 5x5?



I use it but I still suck at anything bigger than 3x3.  As in over 2:00 at 4x4, probably 6-7 mins at 5x5, over that it approaches infinity. I'm working on 4x4a little more though...


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## Jason Green (Apr 8, 2016)

Logiqx said:


> Wow. Impressive stuff Jason!
> 
> I use Tapatalk but it hasn't worked since last night.



I saw people on here saying this was a Xenforo forum now, so I looked for an app for it. I got one called Forum Talker which can connect (URL that worked was https://www.speedsolving.com/forum), but it does not look great and I do not think it has notifications.

There is one called Forum Runner but it's $1.99 and I'm not sure if this site has the plugin. I'm going to ask in the update thread. Please let me know if you have any luck!

Edit - Tried Forum Runner, could not connect, so got a refund.


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## Jason Green (Apr 8, 2016)

Mike, Tapatalk is working yay!!


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## h2f (Apr 8, 2016)

@Jason Green, Congrats. Great ao5. My first ao5 sub-19 was in september last year. You're progressing.

@Chree, I'm back to Hoya on 5x5. I've made few solves yesterday and I got 2 sub-3 solves when usually I solve in around 3:20. So it looks like Hoya works great now for me. I'll give a try with 4x4 and 6x6 but 6x6 I do very seldom.

Talking about progress - I've made 50 3bld solves in last 2 days (12 day before with acc. 30% and 38 yesterday with acc 60%). I'm back on track. My accuracy was 50% but finally I got new pb: 51.52 which is better from previous by 8 seconds. Scramble was easy and solve includes few M2 inserts and few easy comms based on advanced M2. I dont know memo time - havent looked at the timer.



Spoiler



Scramble: R2 U2 R2 D2 U' R2 U2 B2 R2 U' F L R F' D' B2 L2 D' F' R2 Rw2 Uw

y' //preinspection

F' x' L U' R2 U L' U' R2 U x F //3cycle

U R2 U' L' U R2 U' L//3cycle

U R D R' U' R D' R'//3cycle

U R U' M2 U R' U' //M2 insert

x' U' R U M2 U' R' U x //M2 insert

U x' M2 U' R U M2 U' R' U x U' //3cycle, adv M2

x U R U' M' U R' U' M x' //3cycle

x' U M2 U L U' M2 U L' U2 x //3cycle, adv M2

U' L' U M2 U' L U //M2 insert

U2 M' U2 M' //M2 insert



alg.cubing.net

89htm/51.52 = 1.71 TPS


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## MarcelP (Apr 8, 2016)

Jason Green said:


> Mark, sometimes I post feedback on YouTube, hope you see it eventually! This was a great video, thanks!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Looking at these times I see a very cool standard deviation. When I was avaraging 20 - 23 secs my times where all over the place. Getting all about the same times as I see in the picture is a good indicator that there are no weak points in your solves. Meaning even the hard scrambles will result in about the same time. Good stuff!


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## mark49152 (Apr 8, 2016)

h2f said:


> finally I got new pb: 51.52 which is better from previous by 8 seconds.


Wow, nice, you are getting fast! I also went back to 3BLD yesterday. Did 30 solves with accuracy increasing from <50% in first ten up to 70% for the session. Also set a new PB but only 1:34 so I feel slow now .

I really don't want to put down 4BLD. I am still enjoying it most, but there's no 4BLD at my next comp .


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## h2f (Apr 8, 2016)

@mark49152 Thank you. I enjoy 4bld and 5bld as well and also I dont see any comp with it on the horizon.


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## Jason Green (Apr 8, 2016)

MarcelP said:


> Looking at these times I see a very cool standard deviation. When I was avaraging 20 - 23 secs my times where all over the place. Getting all about the same times as I see in the picture is a good indicator that there are no weak points in your solves. Meaning even the hard scrambles will result in about the same time. Good stuff!



Thanks! That was a pretty consistent session, except a few DNFs that I did not want to fix botched LL. Tonight I had a couple of 40+ second solves because I went ahead and finished an alg goof. I'm trying to get out of the habit of throwing out any bad solves - 1) so I can finish bigger averages, and 2) I think the discipline is good especially for comps.


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## muchacho (Apr 8, 2016)

@Jason Green Wow, congrats! even sub-19, awesome!

@h2f That's impressive, you would win competitions with that time in any country that is not called Poland... well, I know there too.


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## MarcelP (Apr 8, 2016)

h2f said:


> @mark49152 Thank you. I enjoy 4bld and 5bld as well and also I dont see any comp with it on the horizon.


If you had contacted me I would have added it on my competition just for you  We have a few BLD freaks in Holland who might have enjoyed that too.


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## h2f (Apr 8, 2016)

@MarcelP I would come even if there's no bld event - just to meet you and say hello. 

@muchacho Thank you. I wish I did such solve on competition - no matter what place I would take but medals always are welcome.


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## mafergut (Apr 8, 2016)

@Jason Green, congratulations!!! Sub-19 Ao5 already, that's so nice!
@h2f, Grzegorz, that 3BLD solve... is so impressive. As David says, you could win a comp in Spain easily with that time. You never want to believe me when I say that you have some impressive cubing skills but, really, that 3BLD time is comparable to a sub-10 sigthed 3x3 average. A feat that none of us here could achieve... well, Chris is quite close but those last 3-4 seconds are so difficult for us oldies


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## h2f (Apr 8, 2016)

@mafergut, Miguel - Thank you for kind words. 
Let's see: WR is 4,9 and in 3bld 21,05. 21,05/4,9 = 4,29 51.52/4,29 = 12,00. So yeah - maybe it's not equvalent of sub 10 but it's close to it.


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## mafergut (Apr 8, 2016)

@h2f, yeah, well, now that you did the math... but I wouldn't mind having any of those numbers as official singles. I cannot even get a sub 1 minute yet in corners only (well, 2BLD) so I can't even imagine getting close to that at 3BLD. Anyway, had I to choose, which one to get as official PB, I would prefer 51.51 at 3BLD than 12.00 at 3x3. I'm sure it ranks much higher in the world


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## h2f (Apr 8, 2016)

@mafergut, definietly you're right. I would take official 3bld 51.51 with closed eyes (Im not sure if there's such idiom in English) and it would give one to be in top 100 in the world in the year. 

I year ago when I started 2bld I thought the same as you - I was wondering how Mats or others who solves with bld methods can solve 2x2 in around 30 seconds.


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## muchacho (Apr 8, 2016)

Only 1 year? ok, I'm sold, priority for BLD adjusted, I'll start with it this week and won't quit (not like last time I tried).


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## MarcelP (Apr 8, 2016)

Ok, I tried to be cool as Mike, but did not succeed filming a cool Ao12. The best I got was 18.9X. Although that is pretty cool for me I decided not to upload. I managed to film a very cool solve though


Spoiler



Second solve of the day:
2. _*13.67*_ U' F2 L2 U' L2 U' R2 D2 B2 L2 U R' U' R' D' B2 R' D' L B F'

Very confused.. I saw an easy blue cross (y2 x' D R' U' L' D2) but then I saw a F2L pair for white cross
so

z2 y// inspection
l U' l' L' R' F' L2 D2 // (8) Yeah, complicated, but I wanted to preserve the pair (and succeeded)
y U' L' U L // (5) F2L 1
U' R' U R U2 L U' L'// F2L 2 (8)
R U' R' U y R U2 R' U R U' R' // (12) F2L 3 I spotted the last pair I managed to preserve in this wicked way 
U y' R U R' // (5) Now it's easy peasy
U R U R' U R U2 R' // OLL (8)
U' R2 U' R' U' R U R U R U' R // PLL (12)
58 moves in 13.67 = *4,2* TPS // And I thought I turned very slow so this seems quite fast.







https://alg.cubing.net/?setup=U-_F2_L2_U-_L2_U-_R2_D2_B2_L2_U_R-_U-_R-_D-_B2_R-_D-_L_B_F-&alg=z2_y//_inspection l_U-_l-_L-_R-_F-_L2_D2_//_Yeah,_complicated,_but_I_wanted_to_preserve_the_pair_(and_succeeded) y_U-_L-_U_L_ U-_R-_U_R_U2_L_U-_L-_ R_U-_R-_U_y_R_U2_R-_U_R_U-_R- U_y-_R_U_R-_ U_R_U_R-_U_R_U2_R-_//_OLL U-_R2_U-_R-_U-_R_U_R_U_R_U-_R_//_PLL

Cube: Moyu Tanglong


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## mafergut (Apr 8, 2016)

@h2f: As David @muchacho says... did you mean you started 1 year ago to do 2BLD? or with BLD? Because if that's the level one can reach in 1 year I also think I already wasted 1 year  I am going to take BLD much more seriously.

By the way, Grzegorz, I'm not 100% sure about English but I think there is such an idiom. And in Spanish as well "con los ojos cerrados".

@MarcelP: Nice full-step!!! I have to record a long session some day to get used to the camera and see if I can get some good singles and/or averages on camera. I think the best I have is like a 17.xx and I would like to have something better, to compare and see why other solves are not like that good one


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## muchacho (Apr 8, 2016)

Oh, it's only 2bld, he has results in competition from 2014... I'll try anyway.

3x3 ao12 new PB: 21.380 (old was 21.872 from 3 weeks ago)



Spoiler



22.734 D2 R2 U' R2 D R2 F2 R2 U2 L2 U' B' L' U' R L' U' F' L' F U2
22.902 U R2 U' R2 B2 D' B2 L2 U2 L2 U B' L2 D2 R B' F' R' B2 F D2 U'
20.551 B2 L2 D R2 B2 F2 U' L2 D2 F2 D2 R D U' R' F' D2 R' B2 F2 R' D'
22.903 D R2 D2 F2 L2 B2 L2 U' B2 D2 L2 F' L2 F U L' F' U2 R' L U' R'
20.710 D2 B2 F2 L2 B2 D' L2 D B2 U' R2 F' R' F D2 R F2 R U' F2 D
35.846 B2 F2 D B2 U R2 B2 L2 F2 D F2 R' U' F' R' L' F' U2 R2 U' B' D'
17.759 B2 F2 U R2 D2 R2 D2 B2 D' B2 U B U2 F R2 U L' B' R' F R' U2
24.630 U R2 F2 U' R2 D2 B2 L2 U' L2 U' R D' B2 D2 R' F U2 B2 R' B' U
19.647 B2 D2 R2 U2 L2 F2 U' L2 B2 F2 D' F D F2 R' F U B' D' R B U'
21.703 R2 D2 F2 U L2 U' F2 U F2 D2 U' B U' F2 D' R L' B R D2 L'
18.199 R2 L2 U F2 L2 F2 U' B2 U L2 U2 B L U2 F' R B2 R' F2 U' L2 U'
19.822 U' B2 L2 B2 U' R2 D' B2 U' L2 U B' R2 D' R B2 R D' U B' L2 U


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## Selkie (Apr 8, 2016)

h2f said:


> My accuracy was 50% but finally I got new pb: 51.52 which is better from previous by 8 seconds.



Fantastic, what a great PB :TU



MarcelP said:


> Second solve of the day:
> 2. _*13.67*_ U' F2 L2 U' L2 U' R2 D2 B2 L2 U R' U' R' D' B2 R' D' L B F'
> 
> Very confused.. I saw an easy blue cross (y2 x' D R' U' L' D2) but then I saw a F2L pair for white cross
> so



Lovely single


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## mafergut (Apr 8, 2016)

Video time! 
Here is the 2x2 walkthrough solve video for this week's 1st scramble. I confuse R and R' all the time in the video.






@MarcelP: I hadn't read your spoiler. Oh, man, now I'm even more impressed that you managed to do different things on the fly to preserve pairs and got that time. When I try to complicate the cross or whatever to preserve pairs I end up spoiling the solve completely.


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## Selkie (Apr 8, 2016)

mafergut said:


> Video time!
> Here is the 2x2 walkthrough solve video for this week's 1st scramble. I confuse R and R' all the time in the video.
> 
> 
> ...


Really nice reconstruction. Great commentary too :tu


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## muchacho (Apr 8, 2016)

Nice video. I was hoping for a timed try at it (the scramble in the description would be helpful also).

I should have found your 2 moves first face solution, I didn't even try to find better options.


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## mafergut (Apr 8, 2016)

Thank you both for your encouragement and suggestions. I will include a timed attempt next time, even though it might force me to edit the video if I fail at it (camera nerves, you know). I'm so lazy that I don't edit my videos at all. I just put a miniature with the scramble as I heard somewhere that putting scrambles on video descriptions has made youtube take out some of them but maybe it's just an internet legend, who knows.

EDIT: Scramble added to description

By the way, color neutral full step PB:
1. 15.62[blue cross] L' F2 L R2 B L' B2 R F2 U' R' U R2 B2 F' L R' F

It looks like my color neutral training is paying off. Closer to sub-20 but still a second and a half slower in average that with white and yellow.


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## Jason Green (Apr 8, 2016)

@mafergut, I don't like to edit vids either. Well I like it but to lazy usually.


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## muchacho (Apr 8, 2016)

It was not a legend, but I have not heard of any problems recently (maybe because people don't put scrambles there anymore, but I've done it and they have not been deleted yet).


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## mafergut (Apr 8, 2016)

muchacho said:


> It was not a legend, but I have not heard of any problems recently (maybe because people don't put scrambles there anymore, but I've done it and they have not been deleted yet).


That's why I was putting it on the miniature but, anyway, I have to find time to edit my videos a bit.


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## MarcelP (Apr 8, 2016)

mafergut said:


> By the way, color neutral full step PB:
> 1. 15.62[blue cross] L' F2 L R2 B L' B2 R F2 U' R' U R2 B2 F' L R' F
> 
> It looks like my color neutral training is paying off. Closer to sub-20 but still a second and a half slower in average that with white and yellow.



Awesome.... and remember.. CN people are a tad bit cooler than the rest..


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## kbrune (Apr 8, 2016)

Getting the last event done in WC.
Just set a new PB in 3 BLD.

3:14.72

Before this one. I only had one sub 4 result and it was at comp a few years back lol


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## mafergut (Apr 8, 2016)

YJ YuChuang!!! 6 dollars at zcube. Who's gonna be the 1st to try it? 

Impressive result at 3BLD, @kbrune. I'm envious. My PB is 8 minutes something at the moment.


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## kbrune (Apr 8, 2016)

@mafergut 

It took me a looooong time to push my memo quicker. I'd say I'm still between 4 and 5 min on average. But I'm now more comfortable with my memo system that I'm starting to push memo times. 

You recently started doing BLD events am I right?


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## mafergut (Apr 8, 2016)

kbrune said:


> @mafergut
> 
> It took me a looooong time to push my memo quicker. I'd say I'm still between 4 and 5 min on average. But I'm now more comfortable with my memo system that I'm starting to push memo times.
> 
> You recently started doing BLD events am I right?


Yeah, I started like 1 month ago, remembering the little OP I had learned like 1 year and a half ago. And then a couple weeks ago I learned basic M2. The 8min something is with OP/M2. I also changed to audio edges (memo last / exec 1st) at the same time I learned M2. Maybe I have done, in these 2 weeks, like 10-15 attempts with OP/M2.


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## mark49152 (Apr 8, 2016)

Nice one, @kbrune. BLD is addictive 

Just smashed my 4BLD PB by 50 seconds: 7:39, on cam too. Have learned some new centres tricks that I was too cautious to learn before Exeter. Now I wish I had! 

Anybody figured out yet how to edit signatures on this new forum?


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## muchacho (Apr 8, 2016)

Congrats! Youtube? Was the race to sub-8? now what? sub-7?

The signature can be changed here: (I used the "Use BB code editor" button on the right)
https://www.speedsolving.com/forum/account/signature


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## mark49152 (Apr 8, 2016)

That's funny, that link says I don't have permission. Is there a menu option anywhere? I don't see one. I cannot edit my own posts either.

I think it was race to sub-7... if not, it is now . It was quite an easy scramble - 8 corner no twists, 24 edge and 13 centre targets, no twists and no significant parities, and easier centre memo than usual. Likely to remain a PB for some time .


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## muchacho (Apr 8, 2016)

It's in the menu, if you hover over your username it appears the link "Signature".

I can edit my posts, you've already broken the forum.


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## mafergut (Apr 8, 2016)

muchacho said:


> Nice video. I was hoping for a timed try at it (the scramble in the description would be helpful also).



By popular request  Timed solve attempt:


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## muchacho (Apr 8, 2016)

Nice, but I'm not popular


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## mafergut (Apr 8, 2016)

muchacho said:


> Nice, but I'm not popular


You are, at least for us here in the forum.


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## kbrune (Apr 8, 2016)

Wow nice! @Mark
I watched Noah's tutorial on 4 BLD. I'll eventually do 4 and 5 BLD but atm I've got too many events I'm trying to improve. In a way I'm improving my BLD skills by improving my MBLD attempts each week

@mafergut

I was exactly where you are 1 month in. I didn't practice very much and i got down to 6-7 minute results. I took a long break from BLD. Just started back up more seriously in the last 2 months. I only do the WC events for practice so I'm sure you'll get there. I've noticed that the one aspect that helped most during improvement was getting a better feeling for when targets have all been accounted for. I used to count targets and new cycles to make sure i had them all. More and more i don't have to count them. I often just know.


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## muchacho (Apr 8, 2016)

I've added an avatar to my profile, after the forum change I need them to easily see who wrote the post I'm reading.


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## h2f (Apr 8, 2016)

muchacho said:


> Only 1 year? ok, I'm sold, priority for BLD adjusted, I'll start with it
> this week and won't quit (not like last time I tried).



Ok. I meant it took me year to get from over 1 minute in 2bld to around 25-30. But I'm mistaken, so i'll describe how it was with my 3bld. The first success with OP/OP was in may 2014 around the time of my birthdady. The time was over 11 minutes. In june I had a comp and failed in 3bld. Next, I was trying Turbo in july 2014. I could do only few solves with same results around 8-11 minutes. After talk with Grzesiek Jałocha about 4bld I decided to give a try to M2. First success was promising - in august 2014 I was around 5 minutes. In that time I have completly rebuild my memo to audio pairs for corners and words with letter pairs for edges. It helped a lot. I had a comp in late august and failed again with times around 5 minutes. After that I decided to make 5 solves per day and tried to keep it. My notes says my times dropped down to 3 minutes in september and after that in autumn and winter they were in a range around 2-3 minutes. First 2 minutes solve came in the beginning of january 2015. During the comp in that month I had a first succes and finished 5th.

I started to practice more. In late 2014 I stareted slowly learn comms for corners. In april 2015 I knew all comms for buffer corner but I decided to switch in may or june 2015. In june I had first solve sub 1:30. I did a lot of solves in 3bld and 4bld, tried 5bld but I couldnt be successfull. Tried mbld with 8-10 cubes. In 2bld I've practiced comms. Etc. etc. The rest of the story you know. 

Resuming. It took half of the year to be around 2:30. Another half of the year to be sub-2. Anohter to be around 1:30 etc. But I've noticed that there few issues. For example memo time is the first. This means good system and good pace. The second good knowledge of all algs. This meant that if I knew M2 well I should keep it. I try to get new algs very slowly. The third is the cube - good and stable. I use yuxin. Others you may know: light, time of the day, to be relaxed, breaks, etc. etc. After all - solves and regular practice. 

Sory, for a long post. I hope it doestn sound as I'm a mentor. I try to decribe my experience with bld.


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## MarcelP (Apr 8, 2016)

h2f said:


> Sory, for a long post. I hope it doestn sound as I'm a mentor. I try to decribe my experience with bld.



Well, around here you are truely an authority on BLD


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## kbrune (Apr 8, 2016)

Just beat both 3x3 PBs today!
Not including the 3BLD PB I posted earlier

Lucky - 13.097 (pll skip)
Full step - 13.98 
My first sub 14 full step solve. I wish I had video capability!

I'm going to try to reconstruct the full step solve.


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## mafergut (Apr 8, 2016)

Thanks, @h2f, Grzegorz for explaining your progress in BLD. It's encouraging.

@kbrune: Wow, nice PB day, you had today


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## Jason Green (Apr 8, 2016)

kbrune said:


> Just beat both 3x3 PBs today!
> Not including the 3BLD PB I posted earlier
> 
> Lucky - 13.097 (pll skip)
> ...



Sweet!!


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## kbrune (Apr 8, 2016)

What an amazing feeling PBs are! You feel invincible afterward. 

It's too bad I followed up the full step PB with a 27.xx and a 23.xx so I couldn't capitalize on a possible ao5 PB lol

still a good day for PBs all around!


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## newtonbase (Apr 8, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> Nice one, @kbrune. BLD is addictive
> 
> Just smashed my 4BLD PB by 50 seconds: 7:39, on cam too. Have learned some new centres tricks that I was too cautious to learn before Exeter. Now I wish I had!
> 
> Anybody figured out yet how to edit signatures on this new forum?


Well done. That's really impressive. 

I had a great day yesterday flying to Glasgow. I had hours of practice. Especially as I got dropped off early for the return flight which then left late. I also got to practice with my nephew who has a 23s PB single after a fortnight. I've given him lots of tips (and a couple of cubes) so we'll see how he responds. His TPS is ridiculous!


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## mark49152 (Apr 8, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> nephew who has a 23s PB single after a fortnight


Isn't that just infuriating


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## kbrune (Apr 8, 2016)

@Mark
I just noticed it says premium member under your name. What does that mean?


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## newtonbase (Apr 8, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> Isn't that just infuriating


I just want to sulk.


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## mark49152 (Apr 9, 2016)

kbrune said:


> @Mark
> I just noticed it says premium member under your name. What does that mean?


You can pay to upgrade. I can't remember what you get. I just paid because I got loads of fun out of this forum and thought I should help them out with costs.


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## Selkie (Apr 9, 2016)

Sorry guys, I have had two days off work with my wife to decorate our lounge and we have done close on 14 hours decorating a day and have not practiced and struggling to catch up on the thread.

So many PBs that I do not have time to congratulate individually, which is disappointing but congratulations anyway to all. Ive said it before but I will say it again. This thread is such a catalyst to progression by us oldies. If I think back 6 years ago I felt very alone and could not judge my progression against others due to age. That story is so different these days.

@h2f Great post mate and don't apologise for giving advice. You and Mark are true inspirations in BLD and I am sure I speak for so many when I say your advise is warmly welcomed mate. 

------------

Tired hands from decorating but amazed to get a PB ao5 in a 15.32 Ao25...

Average of 5: 13.09
1. (11.78) R2 D2 B2 L2 U' B2 U' R2 F2 U L2 B U2 B2 F' L' F2 U' R2 U2 
2. 13.66 D F2 U2 L2 U L2 U B2 U L2 D L D2 R U' B F L2 R' B U 
3. 13.18 L' D2 B2 F2 R2 B2 R' F2 L B2 R F D' F L' B F2 L2 B2 D U 
4. (15.96) D2 L' B2 L D2 F2 R' B2 R' F2 R D R' D U' L B' F' U' R U' 
5. 12.42 L2 U2 R' D2 L B2 D2 L' U2 R F2 D' F' L F2 D B L' B2 U' L

Whilst practice pays off, I think this weeks times are inspired by going to a comp last weekend. Nothing more motivating to me


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## Jason Green (Apr 9, 2016)

Selkie said:


> So many PBs that I do not have time to congratulate individually, which is disappointing but congratulations anyway to all.
> 
> Tired hands from decorating but amazed to get a PB ao5 in a 15.32 Ao25...



Well now we have the like button, so that can help on congratulating! I felt really lost that day at work without Tapatalk working. I like the notices, I can usually find breaks in the day to read up. 

Awesome ao5, just awesome!!


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## h2f (Apr 9, 2016)

mafergut said:


> Video time!
> Here is the 2x2 walkthrough solve video for this week's 1st scramble. I confuse R and R' all the time in the video.



It's very helpfull. Now I know how to do one-look. I didnt know the thing with U2 about sune/antisune.

@kbrune, congrats beating pb. 

@mark49152, great. Now you have a better 4bld time in the to sub-7. Waiting for video.

@Selkie, It's just crazy.

@muchacho, congrats of time. I'm only dual CN but in roux almost full.


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## Shaky Hands (Apr 9, 2016)

MarcelP said:


> Awesome.... and remember.. CN people are a tad bit cooler than the rest..



This would make a great signature.


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## mark49152 (Apr 9, 2016)

Grzegorz @h2f, great post, interesting to read.

And @mafergut, that 2x2 walk through was great, almost enough to make me interested in 2x2 again 

Congrats on the PB, Chris @Selkie. 

My own BLD history is this. I had no interest in BLD until my first comp, where I judged Zak Walters' 1 minute solve and watched Lorenzo Vigano Poli set his 15/15 Italian MBLD NR. The excitement was a different league to the speed events and I was immediately hooked. I went home and learned M2/OP from Noah's tutorial and had my first comp successes 5 & 4 minutes at next comp a month later. Confident from that, I also entered MBLD at the last minute and got 2/2. Then I decided to work on getting faster. I did sighted solves to improve my use of the methods. I measured splits and realised how massive the memo portion is, so started to work on pushing my memo. It took only 1-2 months to get down to 2:30 ish. After 4 months I had 1:47 official PB and I now average around 2 minutes. I got distracted by 4BLD in the 3 months since then, and my 3BLD hasn't improved further, but now I'm back on it.

The biggest factor for me in improving at BLD was realising that memo offers way more room for dropping times than execution. When I was 3 minutes it was something like 2 mins memo, 1 min execution. Getting to 2 minutes was about halving the memo, and I dropped no more than a few seconds off execution 

I love the excitement of solving blind in comp. The adrenaline and the heart pounding inside the earmuffs is hard to describe!


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## DeeDubb (Apr 9, 2016)

@h2f Have you learned corner commutators? I've been working on that recently. I had a new comp PB of 2:19 (but still using OP/M2). I hope to incorporate comms fully by the next competition.


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## muchacho (Apr 9, 2016)

@DeeDubb Are you still using Roux for 3x3? Your "My Progression" thread's first post is up to date?


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## DeeDubb (Apr 9, 2016)

muchacho said:


> @DeeDubb Are you still using Roux for 3x3? Your "My Progression" thread's first post is up to date?



@muchacho Yes, Roux is still my 3x3 method. I believe it's up to date. I haven't done enough normal 3x3 practice lately. I'm pretty satisfied with my times. Now I have some good competition PBs, so I'm ready to really focus on BLD.


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## h2f (Apr 9, 2016)

@DeeDubb, yes i use corner comms. I have my own list. I've just seen yours...  For edges I use advanced M2 with edge comms or pure M2.


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## mark49152 (Apr 9, 2016)




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## Selkie (Apr 9, 2016)

Jason Green said:


> Well now we have the like button, so that can help on congratulating! I felt really lost that day at work without Tapatalk working. I like the notices, I can usually find breaks in the day to read up.
> 
> Awesome ao5, just awesome!!



Oh yes indeed and looking forward to catching up tomorrow. The lack of individual congratulations is more down to 14 hours decorating a day over last few days as we decorate the living room. Normal cubing service to return to normal tomorrow


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## Selkie (Apr 9, 2016)

mark49152 said:


>


Wow, awesome work Mark


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## mafergut (Apr 9, 2016)

@mark49152, I'm speechless. You seem so confident and your pace is so steady. Great job!


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## Jason Green (Apr 9, 2016)

@mark49152 great job! The story of how you got into BLD makes me more interested... Not ready quite yet though.


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## Lid (Apr 9, 2016)

More Gigaminx  got a 19:03 solve today, lets see if I can eventually get under 15mins.


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## mafergut (Apr 9, 2016)

@Lid: You're getting quite fast at Gigaminx. I have seen some guy in the forum getting sub-10min solves and you are already halfway through. My only solve up to now took like 1h or more 

More videos. This time a surprise unboxing. Tell me what you think of the new camera angle.


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## muchacho (Apr 9, 2016)

Nice present. Good angle. It looks quite intimidating, even more than a Gigaminx.


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## LL Cool Skip (Apr 9, 2016)

Cubing roadtrip confirmed! On the morning on Saturday April 16th myself and two other adults will be travelling to Tacoma Washington to compete at Puget Sound Spring 2016. There will be no children with us. There will also be no non-cubers with us. I'm ecstatic!


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## newtonbase (Apr 10, 2016)

mark49152 said:


>


Great solve love the Maskow style thumbs up.


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## h2f (Apr 10, 2016)

@mark49152, Great!


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## Selkie (Apr 11, 2016)

Hi all,

Well feel like I have been on a different planet for the last 4 days decorating our living room which just a brief bit of cubing for the 3x3 PB Ao5 out of nowhere.

Trying to catch up on the weekly comp before the end of the day and did some practice clock and got some lucky cases to give me a PB ao5 on film:-

Average of 5: 12.84
1. 12.48 UR4+ DR2+ DL1- UL2- U1- R4- D1+ L1- ALL5- y2 U3- R3- D1- L6+ ALL4+ UR 
2. (15.54) UR5+ DR6+ DL6+ UL4- U1+ R5- D5+ L2+ ALL1- y2 U0+ R0+ D1+ L4+ ALL0+ UR DL UL 
3. (12.17) UR4+ DR2- DL3+ UL6+ U5+ R2+ D2+ L6+ ALL4- y2 U5+ R2+ D0+ L3+ ALL2- DR DL 
4. 13.07 UR4- DR2+ DL2+ UL3+ U4+ R2+ D3- L4+ ALL3+ y2 U1+ R0+ D5+ L1- ALL4- UR DR DL UL 
5. 12.97 UR1+ DR1- DL5- UL5+ U4+ R1- D2- L3+ ALL4+ y2 U3- R3+ D1- L6+ ALL1- UR 






@mafergut - Nice unboxing. I only have a 3x3 gear cube but it has been in the loft ever since we moved here 2 1/2 years ago. The ball looks great.

@Lid - Nice giga times. Think I will order myself one this week


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## mafergut (Apr 11, 2016)

@Selkie: Wow, Chris, you're fast at everything!  I think I had never seen a clock solve before, now that I think of it. Interesting but, still, not a twisty puzzle 

By the way, I think color neutral practise is starting to pay off. I might go ahead and start doing my regular averages with any cross color now, even if they are still a bit slower. Today I destroyed my PB single with "other" cross color (not white / yellow). And it's full step too 

14.64 F L2 D2 L2 U2 R2 B2 D' R2 F2 R2 L U L F' R' U L U B'

z' y2 // Inspection
L B F R' Uw' F // Cross (orange) (6/54)
U' L U L' U y' R U R' // F2L1 (14/54)
L' U L y' R U2 R' // F2L2 (20/54)
y' U R U2 R' U' R U R' // F2L3 (28/54)
L' U' L U L' U' L // F2L4 (35/54)
U' F R U R' U' F' // OLL (42/54)
U-perm U' // PLL + AUF (54/54)


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## h2f (Apr 11, 2016)

@Selkie @mafergut - nice solves. I can clock but havent practiced for 10 months maybe.


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## Selkie (Apr 11, 2016)

@mafergut @h2f - Thank you. Was hoping for sub 15 at Exeter but after my first was a DNF (solved all clock faces to 6 oclock not 12) the later 21.x counted which ruined my chances. Perhaps better luck at London comp


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## muchacho (Apr 11, 2016)

BLD:
I've solved it (only the corners) in 2 minutes and a half, I had to look up 2 algs that I've not learned yet (I'm not using OP) and wrote the memo in a paper and solved the cube under the table, not a great achievement but it felt good


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## h2f (Apr 11, 2016)

What algs do you mean? And congrats - it felt good, yeah!


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## muchacho (Apr 11, 2016)

http://renslay.byethost11.com/boomerang.html

I looked up the A-Perms to permute the corners, I know like 6 of the 7 "possible" cases of preorientation.

_I know that OP is easier and probably not slower, but this method looked fun to me._


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## h2f (Apr 11, 2016)

Oh, this. Yes, it seems intresting but I've never had so much patience to get through it.  Respect!


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## h2f (Apr 11, 2016)

Talking about 3bld... I could do twice mo3 around 1:10 but 3rd solve was dnf in both cases. Instead I did *mo3 1:23.72* (1:13.41, 1:18.30, 1:39.44) and *ao5 1:25.45 *[1:13.41, 1:18.30, 1:39.44, 1:37.34, 1:20.68]. I had also ~50 sec. solve but dnfed.


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## LL Cool Skip (Apr 11, 2016)

Pyraminx is the only puzzle that I can still get decent times, for myself, while this intoxicated. Although I'm sure I'd be much better sober.
Times are in description. Prisma says the 3.42 is pb single. It probably is.


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## mark49152 (Apr 12, 2016)

Thanks all for the kind words on the 4BLD.

Nice 3BLD times, Grzegorz! You are fast these days.

Boomerang method: I had a look at that a while ago but got a headache wading through all the description. The example solves are interesting though. Looks to me like it's a little more efficient than OP, nowhere near as efficient as comms, but not as good a stepping stone for progressing to comms because of the separated orient & permute.

And finally, a 5BLD success on cam. I will not being doing many of these...


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## h2f (Apr 12, 2016)

Calm reaction Mark. 

Something changed in my 3bld. I took in mind what Jayden wrote about his progress - the key factor were good images. My goal is to be around 1 minute with my means.


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## Shaky Hands (Apr 12, 2016)

Great video Mark. Love the editing and music and even though you'd already said it was a success I felt I was willing you on anyway! 

My own bit of recent news is that I learned to solve a 6x6 in the past week and although my times are nothing to write home about I've been making some good improvement on it. The Weekly Competition has been my main motivator to learn this. I may need to invest in a better cube for solving this at some point as I only have one 6x6 and it's mega-sandy.

EDIT: Just got 2x2 and 5x5 PB singles in the Weekly Comp.


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## muchacho (Apr 12, 2016)

First real BLD (only corners) solve.

3:01 U2 F2 L2 R2 D2 U F2 U' B2 F2 L2 B' U2 B' U B U B R2

Memo was:
U2 Sune U2 51 16 74



Spoiler



2:30 B' R' B2 R F2 U2 B2 U2 F2 R D2 R F' R' F R' B' D2
U' "U" U x2 "Pi" x2 151 242


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## mafergut (Apr 12, 2016)

muchacho said:


> First real BLD (only corners) solve.
> Memo was:
> U2 Sune U2 51 16 74



Is that the boomerang method? Looks weird but for a 1st corner BLD it's not bad, congratulations.

By the way, 4x4 PB Ao5 (1:30.09) and Ao12 (1:37.09). Luckily the Ao5 is exactly the 5 scrambles of the weekly comp, the rest are warm-up and some other solves I did afterwards:

Ao12 = 1:45.62, 1:37.82, 1:47.40, 1:55.98, 1:24.21, (1:23.28), 1:29.49, 1:36.57, (1:58.65), 1:41.19, 1:26.75, 1:25.87

Sub 1:30 solves are becoming more frequent but still I make lots of mistakes with pairing at times. Still ages to get closer to 1 minute.


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## muchacho (Apr 12, 2016)

Thanks, I've had 2 more successes only, there are too many ways I can mess it up and I know only 6 cases of preorientation, there are like 15 more, so I can't (or don't want to) even try most of the scrambles, but I'll learn more cases to be able to try 2BLD this week at the WC.

Congrats!


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## Selkie (Apr 12, 2016)

@mark49152 Wow, awesome 5x5 BLD and agreed, very subdued celebration 

@Shaky Hands Well done on adding the 6x6 to your solving repertoire Andy 

@muchacho Grats and an interesting looking corner method

@mafergut Nice times. I am sure you ave said before but what method do you use for 4x4


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## h2f (Apr 12, 2016)

Today's ao50: 20.21 and ao100 with yesterday's ao50: 20.48. Looks good. 

Congrats to all with your times...


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## mafergut (Apr 12, 2016)

@Selkie, Chris, I use Yau but my solving technique can be improved a lot, I'm sure, like, e.g. when pairing the 3 first cross edges, which I do on E slice (with solved centers in U and D) instead of M slice as I think most people do. Also I am still stuck with 6-2 pairing and only if I find problems I revert to other options (and wasting a lot of time in the process in those solves). Also I still use 2look OLL in some cases because of muscle memory / recog issues (the 1L OLL just doesn't want to trigger).

I think I should record a solve or two and post the video here. I'm sure you guys could offer me a lot of advice to improve.


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## Jason Green (Apr 12, 2016)

I've been thinking I should post a 4x4 solve too. I need to write some questions on 4x4 and 5x5 for everyone here.


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## newtonbase (Apr 12, 2016)

mafergut said:


> @Selkie, Chris, I use Yau but my solving technique can be improved a lot, I'm sure, like, e.g. when pairing the 3 first cross edges, which I do on E slice (with solved centers in U and D) instead of M slice as I think most people do. Also I am still stuck with 6-2 pairing and only if I find problems I revert to other options (and wasting a lot of time in the process in those solves).


I use E slice too but I do 3-2-3 which I strongly recommend switching to.


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## Lid (Apr 12, 2016)

Today Gigaminx solves, 2 new PBs, first a 18:59.39 then the 2nd solve was even better 18:46.20, baby steps ...


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## earth2dan (Apr 13, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> I use E slice too but I do 3-2-3 which I strongly recommend switching to.


I also use the E slice for cross edges. I build them in the correct order too, which is not the usual Yau method but it works better for me. I found I often made mistakes trying to offset one cross edge.

And definitely 3-2-3 edge pairing. It's just so efficient, and dang it feels good when your look ahead is on point and you nail your edges without any pauses


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## h2f (Apr 13, 2016)

In 4x4 I do cross edges on M slice in correct order leaving last one to be build after doing all centeres. 4 centers I build on M with half centers method in my own order. Last wing edge I build on E but I'm not sure if it's good. I do 3-2-3 but I started with 6-2. I think 3-2-3 is much better when you got harder cases.


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## newtonbase (Apr 13, 2016)

6-2 is fine and quick if it works but there are far too many complications. 3-2-3 is much more likely to work and is more flexible. 
I had never considered doing the edge pairing in any particular order.


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## Logiqx (Apr 13, 2016)

I think by "correct order" people mean the first 3 cross edges are correctly placed. The original Yau method places one of the cross edges incorrectly to aid insertion of the final one. I think it is unusual to use that approach as there is less to think about if the cross edges are placed correctly.

Sent from my GT-I9305 using Tapatalk


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## h2f (Apr 13, 2016)

Logiqx said:


> I think by "correct order" people mean the first 3 cross edges are correctly placed. The original Yau method places one of the cross edges incorrectly to aid insertion of the final one. I think it is unusual to use that approach as there is less to think about if the cross edges are placed correctly.
> 
> Sent from my GT-I9305 using Tapatalk



Yes, exactly this is what I meant. I've seen Rob Yau's example solves and he does the same. Doing cross edges I do what I see and Im not searching any particular wings.


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## MarcelP (Apr 13, 2016)

Good averages are hard to get on film but this one was nice


Spoiler: Ao5



1. 18.58 R' U L2 B R B2 L' D2 R' U2 F' L2 U2 F' D2 F U2 R2 F D2
2. 17.74 L2 U2 F L2 U2 B' L2 R2 F2 D2 F' R U' B' L D' R' F' R2 D R2
3. 17.48 U' R' F' D' R U D2 R F U2 F D2 B U2 F' B2 D2 L2 B
4. 15.80 F' U2 B2 L2 U' L2 F2 U' L2 D2 L2 U L' B U' F D L U2 F L'
5. 19.16 (DNF) U' L2 D2 R' U2 R F2 L2 R U2 F2 B' U2 F' R D U L2 B2
stddev 0.59 







Cube: Gans 356


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## Schmidt (Apr 13, 2016)

I'm something like 3000 posts behind in this thread. Everybody doing ok?


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## newtonbase (Apr 13, 2016)

Logiqx said:


> I think by "correct order" people mean the first 3 cross edges are correctly placed. The original Yau method places one of the cross edges incorrectly to aid insertion of the final one. I think it is unusual to use that approach as there is less to think about if the cross edges are placed correctly.
> 
> Sent from my GT-I9305 using Tapatalk


Ah. I used to do the wrong edge placement based on the first Yau tutorial I saw but then changed. I thought I was a bit ahead of everyone but went to a comp and several people hadn't even heard of the old method.


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## MarcelP (Apr 13, 2016)

Schmidt said:


> I'm something like 3000 posts behind in this thread. Everybody doing ok?


Hey man! How is life? Are you practicing again?


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## Schmidt (Apr 13, 2016)

No, I haven't been participating in the weekly for a month or so. But I am planning on putting my good 4*4 back together and still be able to beat your times


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## Jason Green (Apr 14, 2016)

Wow, this was a pleasant surprise!!







Here's the reconstruction:

Scramble - R' L F2 R F B R B2 R U' B' R2 F R2 F R2 B U2 F2 U2

Inspection - z2 y2
Cross - L B2 U R F R’
1st pair - y’ U2 L U L’
2nd pair - U’ L’ U L
3rd pair - U’ R U2 R2’ U’ R
4th pair - U’ R U R’
OLL skip 
PLL - U2 + [R2 U R U R’ U’ R’ U’ R’ U R’] (Ub PLL)


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## h2f (Apr 14, 2016)

Awsome. And scramble?

36htm. Nice solution.

Edit. Nice cross - I did an inverse of your solution and in cross this is what i cant often see - I mean trick like U R F R'


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## Jason Green (Apr 14, 2016)

h2f said:


> Awsome. And scramble?
> 
> 36htm. Nice solution.



Sorry forgot the scramble at first.


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## h2f (Apr 14, 2016)

@Jason Green , You must correct your preinspection and cancel y2. After it the solution works fine.  

alg.cubin.net


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## muchacho (Apr 14, 2016)

Wow, that's really fast, congrats!


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## muchacho (Apr 14, 2016)

WTF this is so weird, I got a new PB only a few solves after seen yours, that's motivation! (that or plain luck). Old one was 15.455 from 5 weeks ago.

15.271 U' L2 U2 F2 R2 F2 D' F2 U' R2 U2 R' B U' F R' B' F2 U2 R2 L2

x2 z'
F' Uw F' U M U M' F' M R U' M2 B
U' M' U R U R U R U' R'
U' R U2 R' U' R U' R'
U' M' U2 M U' M U M2 U' M' U2 M' U2 M2

45 STM

https://alg.cubing.net/?setup=U-_L2_U2_F2_R2_F2_D-_F2_U-_R2_U2_R-_B_U-_F_R-_B-_F2_U2_R2_L2&alg=x2_z- F-_Uw_F-_U_M_U_M-_F-_M_R_U-_M2_B U-_M-_U_R_U_R_U_R_U-_R- U-_R_U2_R-_U-_R_U-_R- U-_M-_U2_M_U-_M_U_M2_U-_M-_U2_M-_U2_M2 

First block was meh (I should have looked to the "green"/white, it looks better), second block has to be my shortest to date, then lucky again with the correct CMLL although I didn't know it (still don't know S, As and U sets, working on U).


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## h2f (Apr 14, 2016)

Nice, very nice. 

I only got ao50 20.17 in the morning session.


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## Logiqx (Apr 14, 2016)

Jason Green said:


> Wow, this was a pleasant surprise!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Hehe. I bet that was a fun solve.

Nice time!

Sent from my GT-I9305 using Tapatalk


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## moralsh (Apr 14, 2016)

wow, you just can't be busy for a week if you want to keep up with this thread, Congrats everybody on your PBs, Jason, you already have a faster single than me, keep that progression.

Mark, great sub 8 on 4BLD. I finally managed a sub 9 with an 8:17, memo still improving (sub 4 half of the times) but execution is still very slow, I need to address that.

and that's about all my progress, not cubing much lately and most of the cube time I got I spend it on investigating conmutators. 

Søren, Welcome back!


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## MarcelP (Apr 14, 2016)

Schmidt said:


> No, I haven't been participating in the weekly for a month or so. But I am planning on putting my good 4*4 back together and still be able to beat your times


I had a sub 1:40 average on 4x4 in the WC this week. I think that is quite allright for me  That should be very easy for you.. You can do that without warm up LOL


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## Selkie (Apr 14, 2016)

@Jason Green , @muchacho - Lovely singles there gentlemen 

@ Megaminx Race

(3:27.28), 3:20.73, (3:12.29),3:25.66, 3:19.88 = 3:22.09

PB average in WC. Filmed it so will upload to my channel this morning.


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## muchacho (Apr 14, 2016)

Thanks, and nice times, I'll watch those.

I decided to stop practicing Megaminx until the SS and the Dayan I ordered arrives, today I got the SS and a Guansu 4x4, they feel really nice (only did some turns), but I'll try to resist and continue practicing just 3x3 and BLD (and some Skewb and 2x2) for a couple of weeks.

I think I'll film some corner BLD solves to try to see where I mess up, if I get a good solve I may upload it.


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## mafergut (Apr 14, 2016)

@Jason Green & @muchacho, David Wow! You're getting pretty fast, guys!

Thank you all for your advice on 4x4. I will try to record a couple solves this weekend and upload the video.

@MarcelP: Nice Ao5 at 4x4 this week. Mine was PB as well and unexpectedly good. At least I can motivate racing against you. Chris, Mark and others are too far away .

@Selkie, Chris: Not that I didn't expect this but you are already faster at Mega. I have not practiced much these last couple of weeks, waiting for my ridged, stickerless Dayan but that's no excuse. You are closing in to sub-3 and will surely win the race to sub 3:30 Ao12. My PB Ao5 still remains 3:35 and Ao12 3:43.

By the way I finally got my Aofu GT. I'm not doing an unboxing because it is just one cube. Maybe I will do one when I get the Dayan Mega, CB 4x4 and BoChuang and will include the Aofu in there. First solve took like ages. Lots of problems with 2 last centers and 2 last edges.


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## newtonbase (Apr 14, 2016)

1:59.90 4x4 AO5 PB including 1:43 single PB (by 8s!).


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## Selkie (Apr 14, 2016)

@newtonbase Great, sub 2 average, must feel good to reach that threshold? 

@muchacho and @mafergut - Thank you very much. Really enjoying megaminx at the moment. My aim is regular sub 2:30 which is average cut in UK. Just did an Ao12 and got the following...

*Megaminx*
3:06.14, 3:02.40, 2:58.24, (3:48.38), 3:16.97, 3:11.79,3:14.13, (2:56.72), 3:33.05,3:14.78, 3:12.20, 3:12.75

Solves 1, 2, 3 and 8 are all PB singles and PBs for Ao5 and Ao12 as well. I will upload the single and best Ao5 today.

number of times: 12/12
*best time:* *2:56.72*
worst time: 3:48.38

current avg5: 3:13.24 (σ = 1.36)
*best avg5: 3:08.50* (σ = 7.57)

current avg12: 3:12.25 (σ = 9.40)
*best avg12: 3:12.25* (σ = 9.40)

session avg: 3:12.25 (σ = 9.40)
session mean: 3:13.96


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## earth2dan (Apr 14, 2016)

@mafergut I'm eager to hear what you think of the AoFu GT. I ordered mine at the same time as you but I expect it'll be another month still before it arrives. Lightake's shipping to Canada is the absolute worst in the business. 

@Jason Green Great solve man! I bet that felt awesome. That's faster than my PB single!


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## mafergut (Apr 14, 2016)

@Selkie: Chris, you just beat my PB single, which was 3:02 and also you have destroyed the race to sub 3:30. To be honest nor David nor myself are practising much Mega in the last couple of weeks but, anyway, impressive progress. I have to try and catch up a bit 

@earth2dan: My 1st impression of the Aofu GT is not very relevant as I cannot speedsolve it yet. It's the 1st time I have something bigger than a 5x5 in my hands and I feel very clumsy when turning it. But I'm sure once broken in and getting used to it, it will be a great cube. Out of the box is very scratchy, but with just one solve the lube is beginning to spread and it's getting better. I just wonder how people solve it  As I said above, L2C was a nightmare, the last 2 or 3 stickers would not want to get in place, no matter what I did. In the end I had to use BLD techniques to solve one sticker at a time like you would do for 4x4 centers with U2. I feel like a complete patzer with this monster


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## Jason Green (Apr 14, 2016)

h2f said:


> @Jason Green , You must correct your preinspection and cancel y2. After it the solution works fine.



Thank you, actually z2 y2 is how I did it, which equals x2. Leave it to me to mess up notation, especially rotations. I still don't remember those correctly when I see them. 



newtonbase said:


> 1:59.90 4x4 AO5 PB including 1:43 single PB (by 8s!).



Nice job, I've still only got sub 2 once (maybe twice?). 



earth2dan said:


> @Jason Green Great solve man! I bet that felt awesome. That's faster than my PB single!



Thanks, it did! I'm not sure how to feel about beating your PB, I think just lucky.


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## Selkie (Apr 14, 2016)

@mafergut - Just had a 2:42.05 from out of nowhere. EP and CO skips. Its really odd because the progress almost feels like becoming more colour neutral though it isnt as after F2L I solve in the same order. Think I am going to concentrate a lot on megaminx until I am sub 2:30 

Here is the 3:08.50 Ao5.


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## Lid (Apr 14, 2016)

@mafergut: The first thing I did when I got mu AoFu GT was to whipe away almost all factory lube, after that I have not added any new at all.

Gigaminx ... nothing new there, just two trash solves today :|
Square-1 ... a5 PB! 15.947, 16.127, (15.085), (18.730[p]), 15.378 = *15.817*


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## earth2dan (Apr 14, 2016)

@mafergut Ah I didn't know you were new to 7x7. I'm still really slow, my PB is 9:42 so I wouldn't say I can speedsolve it yet either. For the last two centers I almost always use commutators for the last couple stickers, don't feel bad about that. I have a mini ShengShou and the original pillowed AoFu and I can't say I really like either of them. I prefer the cubic shape of the ShengShou, but the AoFu turns much nicer. So I guess I'm hoping the AoFu GT will be the best of both worlds


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## muchacho (Apr 14, 2016)

@Selkie have you lubed or tensioned that Megaminx? have it improved after breaking in?


Almost 75 tries at corners BLD, only 12 successful ones so far, maybe I shouldn't rush them, but it's nice when I get a good time. I'm starting to do also impossible cases, with setup to possible ones because I don't know those algs yet, it's tricky, first one was a success, but I was probably lucky.


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## mafergut (Apr 14, 2016)

earth2dan said:


> @mafergut Ah I didn't know you were new to 7x7. I'm still really slow, my PB is 9:42 so I wouldn't say I can speedsolve it yet either. For the last two centers I almost always use commutators for the last couple stickers, don't feel bad about that. I have a mini ShengShou and the original pillowed AoFu and I can't say I really like either of them. I prefer the cubic shape of the ShengShou, but the AoFu turns much nicer. So I guess I'm hoping the AoFu GT will be the best of both worlds


Well, not only new to 7x7 but I don't have a 6x6 yet either. I suppose what I did for those last stickers is a kind of commutator. Do fast people learn specific algs? Would "half centers" be easier? Also the 5-piece edges seem so large... For the last 2, as I didn't know what else to do I just fumbled around with 4x4 last two edges alg slicing at different levels until I got them right. I have never cared to learn specific algs for this in 5x5 and I assume that for 7x7 there must be lots more cases. How do you guys approach that? I feel like a beginner asking how to do the cross.

Sent from my Nexus 4 with Tapatalk


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## moralsh (Apr 14, 2016)

@mafergut you can avoid conmutators on last 2 centers most of the times and when you can't avoid you just have to do one, just when the last center is an oblique center and to solve it just do a niklas.

The way you should approach L2C is middle bar, then inner or outer bar, then the one you didn't pick (outer if you picked inner, inner otherwise), then the remaining inner bar and lastly the last outer bar. corners and centers of the bar work the same way as in 5x5. There's a good tutorial in http://cubeate.es by Alberto Masó

other advices I'd give you are:

Be color neutral
Concentrate on moving fast all of the time, the solve takes a lot of moves and you can shave a lot of time just by not being relaxed
Try to get advantage of already made blocks by pairing differently on the first centers
in freeslice just pair anything that you can see, don't search for the best case, save the already paired edges on the same side until it's done
In last 4 edges try to get 2 pieces ok at the same time pushing a misoriented edge with a good edge so when you swap the edge and insert it back it's good.
Practice 3x3 on 7x7 to get used to it and break it in.
That should take you to my level (barely sub 8) or even pass me.


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## earth2dan (Apr 14, 2016)

mafergut said:


> Well, not only new to 7x7 but I don't have a 6x6 yet either. I suppose what I did for those last stickers is a kind of commutator. Do fast people learn specific algs? Would "half centers" be easier? Also the 5-piece edges seem so large... For the last 2, as I didn't know what else to do I just fumbled around with 4x4 last two edges alg slicing at different levels until I got them right. I have never cared to learn specific algs for this in 5x5 and I assume that for 7x7 there must be lots more cases. How do you guys approach that? I feel like a beginner asking how to do the cross.



I didn't learn any new algorithms for 7x7. For centers I just pick a colour with a good start and build the center bar first, then intuitively build and place one bar at a time. Then commutators if there's a couple stragglers at the end of L2C. For the last two edges I use the tried and true slice/flip/slice back method (same as 5x5). This will either solve them both, or reduce it to one edge with parity (or double parity) which you use the same alg as 5x5 to fix.

Remember with 7x7 edges, when you do the slice/flip/slice move, you can slice just the 3rd layer on its own. Here's an example: https://alg.cubing.net/?puzzle=7x7x...;3u-&alg=3&#45;3u_R-_F_R_F-_R_U-_R-_3&#45;3u-

For me, if there are new algs for these steps there's really no point in learning them until I'm much faster. At this point look ahead, turning accuracy and TPS are way more important for getting faster.


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## bubbagrub (Apr 14, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> Ah. I used to do the wrong edge placement based on the first Yau tutorial I saw but then changed. I thought I was a bit ahead of everyone but went to a comp and several people hadn't even heard of the old method.



Oh! Are we talking about 4x4 here? If so, I still do the old method, and hadn't realised there was a good alternative... Can you give a quick idea of how it works? You put the three edges in the right places, and then when it comes to the fourth edge, how do you avoid messing up the centres?


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## mafergut (Apr 14, 2016)

bubbagrub said:


> Oh! Are we talking about 4x4 here? If so, I still do the old method, and hadn't realised there was a good alternative... Can you give a quick idea of how it works? You put the three edges in the right places, and then when it comes to the fourth edge, how do you avoid messing up the centres?


You just slice set up the pair, slice back, just like you would do with last 8 edges.


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## earth2dan (Apr 14, 2016)

Holy smokes! My GuoGuan YueXiao just arrived! Would you believe I ordered it back in January? Good ol' Lightake.com...

I'm excited to finally try it out. I'm gonna break it in a bit tonight and maybe I'll use it for this weeks race to sub 20 average


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## Jason Green (Apr 14, 2016)

earth2dan said:


> Holy smokes! My GuoGuan YueXiao just arrived! Would you believe I ordered it back in January? Good ol' Lightake.com...
> 
> I'm excited to finally try it out. I'm gonna break it in a bit tonight and maybe I'll use it for this weeks race to sub 20 average



I love mine!!


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## Jason Green (Apr 15, 2016)

I think you guys can see this, I did a live stream reconstruction solve of my PB on FaceBook. Then I did some more solves including a 4x4 and (yikes) 5x5 (7 minutes+, did I say how slow I am at that?).

I'm thinking of live streaming from the comp Saturday some. For some reason even on my work iPhone I cannot save the HD video though like some people can. So I'm torn whether to live stream which is fun, or record normally so I have HD... First world problems. 





__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10156814587660425


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## mafergut (Apr 15, 2016)

@earth2dan: I know use a Tanglong as main and a YueXiao as backup. The Yuexiao is very nice, fast but quite stable at the same time. I just have some issues with the corners causing lockups at times and with the low turning resistance, which makes me misalign a layer without wanting by just barely touching it but this is not as serios as in, let's say, a Meiying, where it is almost as if the dang thing was moving by itself. Anyway, I prefer the Tanglong because it's more stable and once broken in it is so buttery smooth, even though it requires a bit more force to turn, which adds to the stability.

@Jason Green: Nice video!!!! I wouldn't dare to livestream myself

Yesterday, second solve with my Aofu GT. It took a bit less than the first but I'm sure over 20min (it was untimed and "relaxed"). Still having problems with the last 2 stickers in the L2C, a bit less issues with last 2 edges. I had to apply the parity fix for the last edge but it was, as you said, the same as with 5x5. Still so far from even sub-10, I guess. Will try to solve it a bit more this weekend and maybe even time one solve, but I'm afraid to do that .


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## muchacho (Apr 15, 2016)

It's nice to time yourself when you are doing your first solves, because you get a lot of PBs on next solves, just don't pay attention to the time while solving, only use it to compare with previous solves.

@Jason Green Where in Facebook is that video?


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## Selkie (Apr 15, 2016)

@Jason Green - I like the livestream 

@earth2dan - Wow that took a while and I am complaining about a parcel that isnt here that I ordered 2 weeks ago 

@mafergut - First few 7x7 solves will feel very long and to be fair the puzzle still feels clumsy in my hands but persevere and your times will drop 

@muchacho - I tried loosening the Dayan megaminx quite early on but it started popping centres with the screws so I tightened it back up! No lube at all and it is beginning to feel very, very nice. Will probably dismantle and lube the core and internals in a couple of weeks but I believe they break in better without lube.


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## mafergut (Apr 15, 2016)

@Selkie: Chris, thanks for your feedback on the Dayan Mega. I also see in your videos that you are using the ridged one. I can't wait until I receive mine. If it's as good as you say, my already procrastinated SS modding project will be forgotten forever


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## h2f (Apr 15, 2016)

I have competiotion tomorrow. I'm arraving for a while... Link to cubecomps: http://cubecomps.com/live.php?cid=1477


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## earth2dan (Apr 15, 2016)

So I was playing with my new YueXiao last night and I'm not sure what I think of it. It definitely feels like it has potential, but I'm having some problems with lockups, particularly with F' moves. Out of the box it was way too loose so I tightened it up a bit, but I still haven't applied any lube. I think I need to lube the core with something heavy to slow it down a tad, as I am often overshooting.

I'll take it apart, lube it, and re-sticker it this weekend and then we'll see if it can dethrone the mighty AoLong V2. I also got a new Thunderclap to set up and re-sticker this weekend. I have a stickerless Thunderclap and I love how it feels, but I don't like it's shades so I'll set up the new one with my colours and have a 3x3 showdown 

Then I need to just swear off buying any more freakin 3x3's until I'm consistently sub 20... Except maybe a Tanglong, I want to try a Tanglong now, thanks @mafergut 

@mafergut 7x7 takes eons to solve at first. Only recently, as I started focusing on increasing TPS, have I managed to get the occasional sub 10:00 solve. It's a beast, and must be tamed!

Good luck @Jason Green, @h2f, and anyone else competing tomorrow!


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## Selkie (Apr 15, 2016)

@earth2dan - Yes the YueXioa can be quite locky. @MarcelP has a video on his YouTube channel with a mod that really reduces the lockups. If you really don't want to buy anymore 3x3 then really, really don't buy an X-Men Tornado. Its awesome 

Yes best of luck at comps @Jason Green and @h2f . We will await results with interest.


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## Jason Green (Apr 15, 2016)

muchacho said:


> It's nice to time yourself when you are doing your first solves, because you get a lot of PBs on next solves, just don't pay attention to the time while solving, only use it to compare with previous solves.
> 
> @Jason Green Where in Facebook is that video?


If you mean how to make one, here you go:

https://m.facebook.com/help/1636872026560015


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## earth2dan (Apr 15, 2016)

Selkie said:


> If you really don't want to buy anymore 3x3 then really, really don't buy an X-Men Tornado. Its awesome


Aaahhh curse you!

Currently filling a Cubicle cart with magic, master magic, and clock because I don't have any of them. I fear a Tanglong and a Tornado my sneak their way in before I pull that trigger.


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## mafergut (Apr 15, 2016)

earth2dan said:


> Aaahhh curse you!
> 
> Currently filling a Cubicle cart with magic, master magic, and clock because I don't have any of them. I fear a Tanglong and a Tornado my sneak their way in before I pull that trigger.


Don't! Please, don't!!!!  Did I say I don't have a 6x6 yet?


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## Selkie (Apr 15, 2016)

earth2dan said:


> Aaahhh curse you!
> 
> Currently filling a Cubicle cart with magic, master magic, and clock because I don't have any of them. I fear a Tanglong and a Tornado my sneak their way in before I pull that trigger.



Despite the fact I was kidding and trying to get someone else to get somewhere close to the number of cubes I buy, I do love the X-Men Tornado. I changed mains between rounds 1 and 2 of Exeter Open. I have also completely dismantled it this week and lubed the core with 50k diff lube and it is feeling great. I will try and do a review video for it this weekend


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## earth2dan (Apr 16, 2016)

Selkie said:


> Despite the fact I was kidding and trying to get someone else to get somewhere close to the number of cubes I buy, I do love the X-Men Tornado. I changed mains between rounds 1 and 2 of Exeter Open. I have also completely dismantled it this week and lubed the core with 50k diff lube and it is feeling great. I will try and do a review video for it this weekend


Haha, I really don't require much arm twisting to buy new puzzles  Nowhere near your collection, but I think I'm approaching 100 now...

Did you get the stickerless Tornado? The only stickerless 3x3 I've ever found with shades I liked was a Cyclone Boys puzzle, but it's just not a great speedcube. Looking at the images the Tornado actually looks like it has really nice stickerless shades. 

I really have resolved not to buy any more new 3x3's just for the sake of it though. I think the only one I'm seriously considering is a new Gans 356, because they're so very quiet. I have one I keep at the office that's perfect because it's silent enough that I can solve without distracting coworkers. I'd like to have another one to keep in the car or just to have at home for when my wife is sick of the clackity clack


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## Selkie (Apr 16, 2016)

earth2dan said:


> Haha, I really don't require much arm twisting to buy new puzzles  Nowhere near your collection, but I think I'm approaching 100 now...
> 
> Did you get the stickerless Tornado? The only stickerless 3x3 I've ever found with shades I liked was a Cyclone Boys puzzle, but it's just not a great speedcube. Looking at the images the Tornado actually looks like it has really nice stickerless shades.
> 
> I really have resolved not to buy any more new 3x3's just for the sake of it though. I think the only one I'm seriously considering is a new Gans 356, because they're so very quiet. I have one I keep at the office that's perfect because it's silent enough that I can solve without distracting coworkers. I'd like to have another one to keep in the car or just to have at home for when my wife is sick of the clackity clack



Yes I have the stickerless and the shades are great. Comparing it to teh Cyclone Boys G4 Stickerless which is my main 4x4 the colours are comparible but the yellow is a brighter shade but all have good contrast unlike the YueXiao stickerless where the green is like lime and close to the yellow.

As for the Gans 356, the v1 was my main and I do have the 356 v2 advanced but do not find it as good. The main thing for the gans for me is they dont do stickerless and I am changing to stickerless for everything


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## newtonbase (Apr 16, 2016)

Got my Qiyi Cavs. Only 10 days delivery from Champion's Cube Store. I quite like it. Turning isn't super fast out of the box but for me that equates to fewer mistakes so much more consistent times. Possible main.


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## Logiqx (Apr 16, 2016)

I noticed a cool video last night (first sub-10 Ao12 for Petrus) so after a quick update to the Wiki, I decided to do a few Petrus solves.

I have never timed myself before so I decided to do an Ao12 which ended up becoming an Ao50. I'm pretty happy with the 41.61 Ao12 considering it's my first timed session. 

Method: 2x2x2 (partially CN - W/Y on bottom), 3x2x2, EO, F2L (RU), OCLL, PLL



Spoiler



Generated By csTimer on 2016-4-16
solves/total: 50/50

single
best: *29.46*
worst: 1:13.62

mean of 3
current: 44.53 (σ = 7.20)
best: 39.52 (σ = 1.72)

avg of 5
current: 43.63 (σ = 5.83)
best: *39.62* (σ = 1.61)

avg of 12
current: 42.92 (σ = 5.04)
best: *41.61* (σ = 3.97)

avg of 50
current: 47.11 (σ = 6.70)
best: *47.11* (σ = 6.70)

Average: 47.11 (σ = 6.70)
Mean: 47.56

Time List:
1. 1:13.62 L2 U B2 U R2 F2 D' B2 U' F U R' F2 U B2 F L2 U B'
2. 39.09 L2 R2 B U2 L2 F U2 B' U2 F2 L2 U' L2 F L D U' B U2 F U'
3. 1:06.19 D L F' R2 U2 F' D R2 L' F2 D' F2 U D2 B2 D' F2 L2 B2 R2
4. 40.69 F2 L2 U B2 F2 U' F2 R2 U' R2 U2 F' R U' R2 B' F' L B
5. 1:05.32 D2 B' D2 R2 D2 R2 F U2 F U2 D' L R2 U2 B' D B R F2 D'
6. 51.01 F D' L2 B' U' R' B2 L U' F2 R2 U2 F2 B2 R2 L' D2 L' F2 U2
7. 45.42 D B D2 R F' L' B D F' U' R D2 L F2 L U2 L' B2 L D2 R'
8. 29.46 R2 B2 L2 U2 B L2 D2 F R2 F2 U2 R D' R' U2 R2 D' L B U' R
9. 51.52 D' F D2 B U R L D' R' D' L2 B' U2 F2 B2 R2 U2 B' L2
10. 44.77 F2 R' F2 R2 D L F U' L' F' R L2 F2 D2 R F2 L F2 U2 F2
11. 1:03.39 U B2 L2 U L2 B2 F2 D2 B2 D' R2 L U R F' U' F' R B2 L R2
12. 49.78 L2 D2 U B2 L2 U2 R2 U L2 F2 L2 B' D' L D B D' B F2 U' B
13. 51.80 L2 F R2 U F2 U L' D R' U' D2 F2 R2 B L2 U2 B2 U2 F R2
14. 50.64 F2 L' D' F' U D2 L2 F U R' U2 D2 R B2 R' U2 F2 L' U2 F2
15. 42.21 R F2 L U2 L' B2 R2 U2 L' F2 L' B L' B' U F R' B2 L D'
16. 56.84 B2 U R2 D2 B' U2 R B L2 U R2 F2 D2 B2 D2 B2 D' R2 F2
17. 50.61 F2 U' L2 B2 U F2 D F2 D' L2 D2 R B2 D' L B D R2 F2 U' F2
18. 44.28 R2 F R' D F D2 B' U R2 U' R2 D' L2 B2 U2 F2 U2 L'
19. 44.66 R2 U L2 U2 F2 U F2 U2 R2 U2 F' L U F U B L R D' U' L
20. 42.43 B2 L2 F2 D F2 D2 B2 U' F2 U2 R2 B' D' F U' R B D' R' F2
21. 57.76 U R F' D2 F D B2 D2 F L U2 R2 U2 R2 D R2 B2 R2 D
22. 1:11.05 F U2 R2 F L2 F' U2 F U2 B2 D2 L U B2 R' D U' F2 R' B R2
23. 44.21 U2 B' D2 F' D2 F D2 F' L2 B2 F L D' R F2 U2 B' R' U L'
24. 42.04 L2 U2 F' D2 B' L2 B2 F R2 B U2 D' R' B D R' D2 B2 L' R2
25. 50.57 D' B2 D' L2 B2 R2 B2 U B2 R U' L F2 L' B U' B R' F'
26. 41.37 F' D' F2 R2 F2 D R2 D' L2 D2 B2 U R' B L' U' R B2 F2 U
27. 45.73 F L2 F' L2 B' U2 B R2 B R2 F L' D U2 R' B' R' F2 U F R'
28. 50.09 F2 R2 D L2 F2 R2 D2 B2 F2 R B D R2 B L D2 L' F' U2
29. 48.61 D' U2 F2 U2 B2 R B2 L' D2 R B2 L D L2 B' F R' B2 L2 U R2
30. 48.92 F2 D2 L F2 R U2 F2 D2 R' U2 R U R2 F D2 L2 U' L' U2 F' R
31. 47.16 B' D2 B' F' R2 U2 L2 D2 F L2 F L F D' R' U L' R2 F D2 R2
32. 51.45 B2 D F2 U2 R2 D2 U' L2 R2 U' R2 F D F L B L2 R' U' L2 F'
33. 31.16 B R F' R2 U' R U2 R' B' L' B2 U R2 L2 F2 U' D F2
34. 58.69 F2 L2 F2 D2 L2 U2 L2 D F2 D' R B U' L' F' L' R2 B D' F'
35. 45.36  U2 R2 U B' R L' D' R B' U2 B2 R B2 L' U2 B2 R F2 L2 U2
36. 45.86 F' B2 D F2 L2 B2 D2 R2 D' U2 R2 U' F' U' R' D' U B L' D' U2
37. 38.11 B2 U' B2 D2 F2 D F2 L2 R2 D' B R B' F D' U' L R F2 U'
38. 38.63 L R2 B L2 R2 F' R2 U2 B' F' R2 L B' L R U' F R2 D'
39. 54.53 R' F2 R' F' B' L2 D2 L' U F' L2 B' U2 F' U2 D2 R2 F2 U'
40. 46.76 D' F' U' F U F2 R D L B2 U F2 L2 U B2 U R2 L2 D'
41. 41.46 B U2 B2 D2 L2 F' R2 F' U2 F2 R2 U R' B' R' B2 R' F2 L' D L2
42. 38.84 D2 B2 U F2 D' F2 R2 D2 B2 R2 U' F R2 D B2 D2 B' F U2 R F
43. 38.23 R2 B' D2 U2 R2 B' F' R2 F2 L D R2 B' R2 U2 L D2 R B
44. 42.37 D F' B2 D' B U D2 L U D' R2 L2 F2 U' R2 F2 L2 U' R'
45. 38.53 D2 L2 B2 R' F2 R' U2 L' U2 R2 D B2 U L R F D F2 D F'
46. 49.40 D2 F2 R2 U2 R2 U2 F' L2 B D L2 F' L' B D2 U' L D2 F'
47. 33.64 R2 D' L2 D U' L2 R2 D R2 F' R' B2 F' L B' R D2 U' L2
48. 43.76 D' R' D' L' F D2 F L' U' F R2 D2 L2 F' L2 U2 D2 B2 L2 F'
49. 52.07 L R2 U B2 F2 U2 F2 U2 L2 U' F L' U' R2 B2 U F' D L2 B'
50. 37.73 L' D R2 D' R2 D L2 R2 U B2 R2 D' R' F' R U' L U2 B2 F


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## mafergut (Apr 16, 2016)

@newtonbase: Mark, now I will have to include a QiYi Cavs 2x2 in my next order, with that Aoshi  Not searching for a main but it could be a backup main for my Dayan. Does it lock like the YJ/Moyus? Of course another option could be a f/s. Anybody has one and likes it and which one? (I think there's a stickered one and a tiled one, and a 55mm also. Because, you know, a second 2x2 does not make the package that much bigger 

@Logiqx: Michael, nice Petrus session. I have never tried Petrus. I have tried Roux and ZZ but that's all. And I never was any good at any of the two. Maybe Petrus could help my block building but my "to do" list is already growing out of control and I will only live that many years, you know


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## newtonbase (Apr 16, 2016)

mafergut said:


> @newtonbase: Mark, now I will have to include a QiYi Cavs 2x2 in my next order, with that Aoshi  Not searching for a main but it could be a backup main for my Dayan. Does it lock like the YJ/Moyus?


It's quieter and smoother than my Lingpo and Tangpo which are my mains and feels quite hollow. I doubt it would be quick enough for the fast guys but it's fine for me. But I never liked the Dayan so what do I know?


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## mafergut (Apr 16, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> It's quieter and smoother than my Lingpo and Tangpo which are my mains and feels quite hollow. I doubt it would be quick enough for the fast guys but it's fine for me. But I never liked the Dayan so what do I know?


I don't need it to be super-fast. If it is smooth, has decent corner cutting and does not catch it might be worth a try. I didn't like the Dayan at first but after breaking it in it's very good (I wouldn't say great).

By the way, Mega PB Ao12 but still no sub 3:30, even if to get there second  It's just 3:39 and my best solve today was 3:29 so, quite regular with my times but slow.

EDIT: 3:06 single (not PB) and 3:32 Ao5 (PB). Still not sub-3 single and not sub 3:30 averages.


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## Logiqx (Apr 16, 2016)

mafergut said:


> @Logiqx: Michael, nice Petrus session. I have never tried Petrus. I have tried Roux and ZZ but that's all. And I never was any good at any of the two. Maybe Petrus could help my block building but my "to do" list is already growing out of control and I will only live that many years, you know



It's quite a fun method and relatively easy to pick up. If you glance at the times, you'll see that I was getting more consistent towards the end of the session as I was becoming more proficient and making less mistakes during EO. Oh... and I was starting to get a bit better at block building. 

I might start doing Petrus solves regularly as I'm starting to learn COLL (excluding the Sunes) and each case will appear more frequently than they do in CFOP. Using CFOP and partial edge control the typical COLL cases appear ~3 times less often than typically OLL cases. Petrus and ZZ present a COLL case every solve so they're better for practicing COLL algs during real solves.


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## Jason Green (Apr 16, 2016)

I have a 55mm Fangshi and I like it quite well. A Lingpo I tried at last comp I liked better. 

At the KC comp today and pleased with results so far. 21.80 3x3 average with a 20.00 single (actually 20.005). PB 2x2 single of 7.77. And two official 4x4 results of 2:03 and 1:48, an all time PB. 

Just 5x5 left and I will not make hard cut probably. Although I came close once last night. 

http://m.cubecomps.com/competitions/1482/events


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## mark49152 (Apr 16, 2016)

Congrats Jason, and belated good luck to everyone else competing this weekend! I can't keep up with this thread these days. I just checked cubecomps and saw that Grzegorz got 1:28 PB podium 3rd in 3BLD - awesome, congrats!


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## Jason Green (Apr 16, 2016)

Yes congrats Grzegorz! Thanks Mark!

Not sure why 4x4 isn't showing, it was the first event today.


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## Logiqx (Apr 16, 2016)

Jason Green said:


> http://m.cubecomps.com/competitions/1482/events



Congrats! I think you'll be officially faster than me before I make it to another competition. hehe


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## newtonbase (Apr 16, 2016)

Well done Grzegorz and Jason. 

I got a spare G4 with my delivery today and it feels very different to my other one. Maybe I just don't realise how much I've broken the first one in.


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## Logiqx (Apr 16, 2016)

Second timed Petrus session - 1/5/12/50: 
30.581 36.949 38.699 42.147


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## Logiqx (Apr 16, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> Well done Grzegorz and Jason.
> 
> I got a spare G4 with my delivery today and it feels very different to my other one. Maybe I just don't realise how much I've broken the first one in.



I've bought two cubes at once on several occasions. I often find they differ slightly... before and after breaking in.


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## Selkie (Apr 16, 2016)

@newtonbase - I was considering buying a Qiyi Cavs and that sound like great shipping time to UK. I feel yet another order coming on as I also need a stickerless skewb 

@Logiqx - Petrus is a good skill to have, especially for FMC. Learning Petrus, Heise and Comms is a huge stepping stone for FMC 

@Jason Green , @h2f - Great results for the older cubers gents


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## Rocky0701 (Apr 17, 2016)

Jason Green said:


> I have a 55mm Fangshi and I like it quite well. A Lingpo I tried at last comp I liked better.
> 
> At the KC comp today and pleased with results so far. 21.50 3x3 average with a 20.00 single (actually 20.005). PB 2x2 single of 7.77. And two official 4x4 results of 2:03 and 1:48, an all time PB.
> 
> ...


Nice job Jason! It was nice meeting and judging you today. Also that was a really fun comp! Also I remember that 7.77 2x2 single


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## Jason Green (Apr 17, 2016)

Rocky0701 said:


> Nice job Jason! It was nice meeting and judging you today. Also that was a really fun comp! Also I remember that 7.77 2x2 single


Thanks @Rocky0701! I'm sorry I've already forgot your name. One reason cubing appealed to me was to exercise my poor memory. 

I have really loved being at the three comps I went to. Wish I had one every month!

I think everyone would agree we welcome the input from younger cubers here, despite the thread name. To me it's more about having a place for us to have some cubers we feel we can compare to.

PS - 21.80 average, the .50 was a typo.


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## Rocky0701 (Apr 17, 2016)

Jason Green said:


> Thanks @Rocky0701! I'm sorry I've already forgot your name. One reason cubing appealed to me was to exercise my poor memory.
> 
> I have really loved being at the three comps I went to. Wish I had one every month!
> 
> ...


No problem! That's ok, I'm awful with names too. I'm Quinton. 3BLD would be the perfect event to try then! I started out just doing 2x2 BLD and then went up from there.

Yeah, comps are a blast and a good motivation to keep practicing.

Awesome, I used to post here all the time, but then stopped when the title changed. I'll think I'm here to stay then.


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## h2f (Apr 17, 2016)

@Jason Green Congrats - great ao5!

Thank you all for kind words. I'm happy with my results and with my 3rd place in 3bld. It was very hard day - the venue was too small for 80 people: it was hot and stuffy. I had a very hard day. I'm a little dissapointed with my 3x3 results. In first round my hand shaked, no look ahead etc. I was practicing so hard in last week and hoping for being around 20. In second round it was a little better but still no around 20. I havent practiced other events, so pb in 2x2 is nice and ao5 in skewb also seems fair.


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## Jason Green (Apr 17, 2016)

Which comp was it? Can you post cubecomps link?


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## h2f (Apr 17, 2016)

This one: http://cubecomps.com/live.php?cid=1477&compid=51


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## MarcelP (Apr 17, 2016)

Okay, I found the time to practice one hour this week  Had a nice Ao12 in there:


Spoiler



Average 17.26.. don't you just hate it when 19's mess up your average... LOL
32. *14.71* L U2 R U' B L' D' R' U' F2 B2 U2 R2 B2 D2 R' D2 B2 L' B2
33. 18.50 U F2 R' L U2 F B2 D' R B' L2 D R2 U F2 U' R2 D' B2 U
34. *14.85* U' R2 F2 L2 D2 R2 U B2 F2 D2 B' L U' F' R' D2 F' D' L2 F
35. 17.19 F U D' L2 B R' B' D' B D2 B' U2 R2 U2 D2 F2 L2 U2 B' R
36. 19.65 B2 D L2 B2 U R2 U2 F2 D' F2 U' B F D2 L F' R' U' L2 B' L
37. 16.02 D R' D F B' R' F2 B D L2 U2 D2 F2 B L2 B' U2 D2 R2 B'
38. 16.92 R' B2 F2 R' U2 B2 L R2 D2 U2 B U2 L F2 R F' U B' U2
39. *14.39* F2 D2 R2 U' B2 L2 D' L2 B2 U B U L' R2 U F' L2 R D' B'
40. 21.47 D' R' F L' U2 B D B2 U' B2 D2 R' D2 B2 D2 L' F2 R' D2 B2
41. 19.10 F2 U L2 U' R2 D2 B2 U' R2 D2 L' U2 R2 F L' R D R' F'
42. 18.84 B' L' B2 R2 U2 F' U F' D' L' F2 U2 F2 U2 L' B2 L U2 L2 U2
43. 16.79 U L F2 R B2 D2 R' B2 U2 L R2 D' B' L D2 R' B L2 U F'
44. 16.54 D' L' R' B2 D2 L B2 L F2 R D2 L' B R U2 R U' R2 U'


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## MarcelP (Apr 17, 2016)

h2f said:


> This one: http://cubecomps.com/live.php?cid=1477&compid=51


Very cool! I bet achieving BLD pb's are the best for you?


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## Logiqx (Apr 17, 2016)

@MarcelP - nice average!


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## h2f (Apr 17, 2016)

@MarcelP, yes they are!  

Nice ao12.


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## moralsh (Apr 17, 2016)

@MarcelP Nice average, that beats my PB which is a high 17 IIRC
@h2f, I think your official 3BLD doesn't really represent your speed, same with 3BLD, you need more comps!
@Jason Green Please, improve slower or it will be impossible to keep up with you.
@Logiqx I might try to relearn and practice Petrus, need something to improve my FMC skills and stop DNFing every attempt
@mafergut @Selkie I might join with mega if I find the time, I'd like to have an official average and that won't be possible averaging around 4 minutes.

I have two more comps before ending the first half of the year (both organizer again ) in which I'll try to sub 10 4BLD, finally do 5BLD and join the sub 20 3BLD club. Other Objectives are 5+ points in MBLD (Might attempt 9-10), Mega average, 3BLD mean (and break my streak of 6 consecutive solving 2 and failing one) and sub 6 6x. I really need to stop liking almost all the events.


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## Logiqx (Apr 17, 2016)

@h2f + @Jason Green: Let me know when your results are on the WCA site.

Note: The WCA database export completes ~3am (UTC) so that needs to run before I can run my Python script.


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## Jason Green (Apr 17, 2016)

Logiqx said:


> @h2f + @Jason Green: Let me know when your results are on the WCA site.
> 
> Note: The WCA database export completes ~3am (UTC) so that needs to run before I can run my Python script.


Thank you I will!


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## newtonbase (Apr 17, 2016)

@MarcelP Nice average 
Meant to be doing 5x5 practice today and I got in a few timed solves including a 4:19 then a 4:18, both PBs. I'm sure it was a PB AO5 too (around 4:30?) but I was only using a stopwatch and didn't write anything down. Maybe I can sub 4 mins in the next couple of days if I get some free time.


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## muchacho (Apr 17, 2016)

Congrats Grzegorz and Jason. Will there be some videos?

Nice average Marcel and good luck with Petrus to Michael, and also good luck to Raul organizing, thanks for doing that even if I can't go to any of those comps.

My weekend practice was devoted mostly to corners BLD, I'm liking it.


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## Jason Green (Apr 17, 2016)

muchacho said:


> Congrats Grzegorz and Jason. Will there be some videos?
> 
> Nice average Marcel and good luck with Petrus to Michael, and also good luck to Raul organizing, thanks for doing that even if I can't go to any of those comps.
> 
> My weekend practice was devoted mostly to corners BLD, I'm liking it.


Yes, I live streamed a lot on Facebook. I think you can see, maybe be able to browse my page without being on FB even? Can you navigate to my page I'm not sure. Here is one. 

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10156820235860425&id=894935424

I think I'll actually edit a compilation video this time. I'm not sure if I'll upload every individual solve, maybe my PBs and some other footage into the compilation. I'm not sure yet.


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## h2f (Apr 17, 2016)

Logiqx said:


> @h2f + @Jason Green: Let me know when your results are on the WCA site.
> 
> Note: The WCA database export completes ~3am (UTC) so that needs to run before I can run my Python script.



Ok. I will. I think it'll in few days. 



muchacho said:


> Congrats Grzegorz and Jason. Will there be some videos?
> 
> Nice average Marcel and good luck with Petrus to Michael, and also good luck to Raul organizing, thanks for doing that even if I can't go to any of those comps.
> 
> My weekend practice was devoted mostly to corners BLD, I'm liking it.



I filmed few solves in 2x2 and 3x3 but batteries were down during 3bld and I got only first dnf.


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## Logiqx (Apr 17, 2016)

22.145 single with Petrus. 

Easy 3x3x2 (9 moves), 4 bad edges (6 moves), easy F2L (7 moves), Pi OCLL and J-perm.

5/12/50/100 - 34.04/36.26/38.38/39.13


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## efattah (Apr 18, 2016)

I never got my 9.90 3x3 PB on video but I posted a 10.60 in the new method thread:
https://www.speedsolving.com/forum/...oncept-idea-thread.40975/page-91#post-1167223

I'm 41 and haven't been cubing since the 80's.

Eric Fattah
Vancouver, BC


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## muchacho (Apr 18, 2016)

Jason Green said:


> Yes, I live streamed a lot on Facebook. I think you can see, maybe be able to browse my page without being on FB even? Can you navigate to my page I'm not sure. Here is one.
> 
> https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10156820235860425&id=894935424
> 
> I think I'll actually edit a compilation video this time. I'm not sure if I'll upload every individual solve, maybe my PBs and some other footage into the compilation. I'm not sure yet.


It asks me to log in, then it lets me play the video.


efattah said:


> I never got my 9.90 3x3 PB on video but I posted a 10.60 in the new method thread:
> https://www.speedsolving.com/forum/...oncept-idea-thread.40975/page-91#post-1167223
> 
> I'm 41 and haven't been cubing since the 80's.
> ...


Nice solves, interesting method, do you know all those algs? What do you average?

Also, will you try to solve some cubes underwater? how much time can you hold your breath?

And welcome!


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## newtonbase (Apr 18, 2016)

efattah said:


> I never got my 9.90 3x3 PB on video but I posted a 10.60 in the new method thread:
> https://www.speedsolving.com/forum/...oncept-idea-thread.40975/page-91#post-1167223
> 
> I'm 41 and haven't been cubing since the 80's.
> ...



A freediving cuber! The unofficial record for cubes solved in a single breath stands at 16. What do you think you could do?


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## mafergut (Apr 18, 2016)

@Jason Green, @h2f: Jason, Grzegorz, congrats on your new comp results and PBs. It's been a busy weekend with not much time to be on the forums or to cube, except for some Mega solves that left me frustrated because I still can't get a sub-3 single and my progress seems to have come to an abrupt stop at like 3:40 average. Once or twice the thought of throwing my SS Mega against the wall crossed my mind  It locks up a lot when I try to push TPS.

Now I have to get to work. Will try to keep an eye on the forum in the evening.


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## Logiqx (Apr 18, 2016)

efattah said:


> I never got my 9.90 3x3 PB on video but I posted a 10.60 in the new method thread:
> https://www.speedsolving.com/forum/...oncept-idea-thread.40975/page-91#post-1167223
> 
> I'm 41 and haven't been cubing since the 80's.
> ...



Hello. Welcome to the thread!


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## mafergut (Apr 18, 2016)

Hey guys! Just a quick question. I received today my last order and the CB G4 is super-nice out of the box already but, at times an inner layer will catch and won't want to turn in one direction (but it turns in the other), even with a lot of force. Is that something that will go away with breaking in or is it defective?

Other than that the stickerless shades are great and I'm liking it already more than either my Aosu or Guansu. Also no problems with the smaller size, I think it's even a plus.

EDIT: Wow! 1st (and only) timed solve with it out of the box and, even with one of those big catches and with double parity I got a 1:34. If the catches go away I already have a new main. One of my main issues with going stickerless was with my recognition, even with nice shades, I always thought that the black border around stickers that visually separates one sticker from the other was helping me with solving but I've had no problems at all with that now with the G4. Oh, please, don't tell me that another stickerless guy was just born and now I have to buy everything in stickerless as you guys. At least I already have the Dayan Mega in stickerless as well, but didn't have time to try it out yet. If I can get used to it too then I think I will try more stickerless puzzles. Already starting to regret having ordered the Aofu in black stickered.


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## Logiqx (Apr 18, 2016)

Apologies for the coughing fit mid-solve!


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## newtonbase (Apr 18, 2016)

mafergut said:


> Hey guys! Just a quick question. I received today my last order and the CB G4 is super-nice out of the box already but, at times an inner layer will catch and won't want to turn in one direction (but it turns in the other), even with a lot of force. Is that something that will go away with breaking in or is it defective?
> 
> Other than that the stickerless shades are great and I'm liking it already more than either my Aosu or Guansu. Also no problems with the smaller size, I think it's even a plus.
> 
> EDIT: Wow! 1st (and only) timed solve with it out of the box and, even with one of those big catches and with double parity I got a 1:34. If the catches go away I already have a new main. One of my main issues with going stickerless was with my recognition, even with nice shades, I always thought that the black border around stickers that visually separates one sticker from the other was helping me with solving but I've had no problems at all with that now with the G4. Oh, please, don't tell me that another stickerless guy was just born and now I have to buy everything in stickerless as you guys. At least I already have the Dayan Mega in stickerless as well, but didn't have time to try it out yet. If I can get used to it too then I think I will try more stickerless puzzles. Already starting to regret having ordered the Aofu in black stickered.


It's a great puzzle isn't it. The catches do start to go away after some breaking in.


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## Jason Green (Apr 18, 2016)

I have the original CB 4x4 which is OK, but used my friend's G4 at the comp and it was great!

@efattah great solves, interesting method. When did you work on that, in the 80s or now? How long have you been back into cubing?

@Logiqx good job with Petrus! What are your goals and/or purpose of practicing it? Like new main method, or just to understand the cube better, etc?


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## h2f (Apr 18, 2016)




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## muchacho (Apr 18, 2016)

Jason Green said:


> @Logiqx good job with Petrus? What are your goals and/or purpose of practicing it? Like new main method, or just to understand the cube better, etc?


I think he said for fun and to practice COLL and blockbuilding.


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## muchacho (Apr 18, 2016)

h2f said:


>


Nice editing


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## Logiqx (Apr 18, 2016)

muchacho said:


> I think he said for fun and to practice COLL and blockbuilding.



Yeah. It's fun and the few COLL cases I know are cropping up often enough for me to practice them.


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## h2f (Apr 18, 2016)

muchacho said:


> Nice editing


Thank you. The text of song matters but it's very hard to translate. It is a song that every good thing is elsewhere and everything doesnt fit to me. Kind of poetry.


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## mafergut (Apr 18, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> It's a great puzzle isn't it. The catches do start to go away after some breaking in.


So you think the inner layer catches are normal? That's a relief, I wouldn't want to have to return it to Lightake and wait another month for a new one  And yes, the 3x3 stage is awesome and the shades are easily the best I've seen in any stickerless puzzle.

EDIT: @Logiqx: Michael, nice solves. It looks like it can be really low movecount but quite difficult to lookahead / plan the blockbuilding part.


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## efattah (Apr 18, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> A freediving cuber! The unofficial record for cubes solved in a single breath stands at 16. What do you think you could do?



To answer a few questions posted:
- I posted in another thread that I am training to break the record for underwater 3x3 solving, I have held my breath up to 8:50 before and I also trained the world record holder (12:11), but while cubing 7 minutes is the max as it takes more energy than floating motionless (my plan is to do 20-22 3x3 cubes hopefully later this year...)
- Right now my 'official' average ability sucks, because I still don't know EG2 and my one-look of the corners takes longer than 15 seconds, so until I can resolve those I don't think I will attend any competitions (my goal is to land a sub-10 official 3x3 average using my LMCF method at some point though!)


Eric Fattah
Vancouver, BC


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## h2f (Apr 18, 2016)

@efattah, impressive!

I thank you all for good words.


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## Jason Green (Apr 19, 2016)

Here are my big cube questions I've been putting off asking... mainly because I haven't even tried to research much. But asking here is one of the best ways to research so... @evilgnome are you there? 

4x4 doing 3-2-3 for edge pairing. After the first 3 dedges, if my next two are 4 pieces that need to pair should I just use flip alg for that? That's what I do now and it seems fine. I used to get confused and go insert a new dedge to pair by slice, slice back. 

4x4 PLL parity. How do I recognize the case? I'm lost. I do some alg, see what I get, do some other alg, until I can spot what's going on. Some are not as bad as others. 

5x5 last two centers. Same as 4x4 PLL I'm pretty clueless. You can ask @DavidWoner who judged my attempt in KC and taught me how to do a two layer sune for one case. Thanks David! I can build the 2x3 ok but that last row I don't know. Maybe I should know algs before I finish 2x3 even?


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## Shaky Hands (Apr 19, 2016)

Jason,

With 4x4 PLL Parity, I try to visualize it as: "If I swap 2 opposite sides, what PLL case will that give me?" (sometimes it's an adjacent swap using [x R2 F'] [PLL Parity] [F R2 x'] instead.)

Something that helped me with this was doing the PLL Parity as soon as I noticed it wasn't a regular PLL. Even if I did the Parity from the incorrect position I ultimately learned from this anyway; and often it resolves into another PLL case. Essentially it's another bunch of pattern recognition. Eventually I got to the stage where I can spot the cases. It's my dedge-pairing that lets me down on 4x4.

Will leave the real gurus to answer the rest, or give better suggestions! Cheers.


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## Shaky Hands (Apr 19, 2016)

I logged my 10,000th timed 3x3 solve about an hour ago, nearly 9 months after completing my first solve on 1st August 2015 (which took 6 hours, but I'm not that clever )

Time for some self-reflection...

I'm still hovering just under the 30 second mark as an average and am probably plateauing but now I'm past this 10,000 solve milestone I'm planning to do a few things I've been putting off:
1. Improve my cross. This is probably my biggest weakness, particularly when I compare myself to videos of other people solving. My cross is almost never optimal and takes me 8+ moves about 50% of the time. Also I occasionally do an unintentional double-insert of cross-pieces and lose time scanning for the remaining cross-piece when it's already there
2. Reduce cube rotations and also use rear-inserts more
3. Learn some F2L algorithms for awkward cases. All the F2L I use is intuitive except for picking up the Triple-Sexy case (case 32)
4. Learn some more 1-look OLL

I'm hoping that by concentrating my effort on specific aspects rather than just spamming mindless solves I should be able to improve my overall technique. My plan is to just do the various forum competitions for timed solves for a while but every now and then do an Ao25's to check on progress.

For any stats-freaks interested in my rate of progress, I've exported some notes below (I've excluded the early 1m+ solves, although bad mistakes lead me to still get one about once every 150 solves):

Personal Bests


Spoiler



Solve # / Time
431 / 52s
577 / 48s
754 / 43s
778 / 42s
1030 / 41s
1057 / 35s
1098 / 33s
1297 / 29s
1431 / 27s
2251 / 25s
2379 / 23s
2940 / 21s
5425 / 20s
7450 / 19s



Ao5


Spoiler



Solve # / Time
576-580 / 58s
577-581 / 54s
764-768 / 53s
797-801 / 51s
936-940 / 49s
938-942 / 47s
1053-1057 / 46s
1090-1094 / 45s
1106-1110 / 44s
1175-1179 / 43s
1178-1182 / 39s
1401-1405 / 38s
1348-1352 / 37s
1630-1634 / 35s
2244-2248 / 34s
2309-2313 / 33s
2333-2337 / 32s
2337-2341 / 31s
2415-2419 / 30s
2821-2825 / 29s
3268-3272 / 28s
4055-4059 / 27s
5715-5719 / 26s
6276-6280 / 25s
7449-7453 / 24s
9356-9360 / 23s



Ao12


Spoiler



Solve # / Time
684-695 / 58s
739-750 / 57s
763-774 / 56s
797-808 / 55s
825-836 / 54s
934-945 / 53s
935-946 / 52s
936-947 / 51s
988-999 / 50s
1051-1062 / 48s
1099-1110 / 47s
1100-1111 / 46s
1171-1182 / 45s
1205-1216 / 44s
1277-1288 / 43s
1357-1368 / 42s
1376-1387 / 40s
1622-1633 / 39s
1754-1763 / 38s
1757-1768 / 37s
2242-2253 / 36s
2324-2335 / 35s
2330-2341 / 34s
2408-2419 / 33s
2786-2797 / 32s
3265-3276 / 31s
3269-3280 / 30s
3918-3929 / 29s
5296-5307 / 28s
6276-6287 / 27s
7186-7197 / 26s
9348-9359 / 25s



Ao25


Spoiler



Solve # / Time
735-759 / 59s
740-764 / 58s
745-769 / 57s
814-838 / 56s
930-954 / 55s
938-962 / 54s
1045-1069 / 53s
1050-1074 / 52s
1051-1075 / 51s
1080-1104 / 50s
1083-1107 / 49s
1089-1113 / 48s
1097-1121 / 47s
1172-1196 / 46s
1264-1288 / 45s
1273-1297 / 44s
1354-1378 / 43s
1614-1638 / 42s
1748-1772 / 41s
1754-1778 / 40s
1896-1920 / 39s
2260-2284 / 38s
2273-2297 / 37s
2311-2335 / 36s
2319-2343 / 35s
2512-2536 / 34s
2780-2804 / 33s
2786-2810 / 32s
3913-3937 / 31s
4741-4765 / 30s
5293-5317 / 29s
6482-6506 / 28s
7184-7208 / 27s
9333-9357 / 26s



Ao100


Spoiler



Solve # / Time
733-832 / 59s
739-838 / 58s
915-1014 / 57s
984-1083 / 56s
1005-1104 / 55s
1011-1110 / 54s
1020-1119 / 53s
1033-1132 / 52s
1050-1149 / 51s
1076-1175 / 50s
1097-1196 / 49s
1139-1238 / 48s
1170-1269 / 47s
1236-1335 / 46s
1265-1364 / 45s
1321-1420 / 44s
1729-1828 / 43s
1298-1397 / 42s
1889-1988 / 41s
2201-2300 / 40s
2228-2327 / 39s
2236-2335 / 38s
2260-2359 / 37s
2292-2391 / 36s
2701-2800 / 35s
2741-2840 / 34s
3658-3757 / 33s
3876-3975 / 32s
3929-4028 / 31s
5258-5357 / 30s
6713-6812 / 29s
9251-9350 / 28s
9326-9425 / 27s



Number of solves


Spoiler



19.xx / 2 times
20.xx / 4 times
21.xx / 12 times
22.xx / 42 times
23.xx / 76 times
24.xx / 140 times
25.xx / 229 times
26.xx / 329 times
27.xx / 501 times
28.xx / 615 times
29.xx / 669 times
30.xx / 741 times
31.xx / 764 times
32.xx / 617 times
33.xx / 603 times
34.xx / 503 times
35.xx / 455 times
36.xx / 371 times
37.xx / 310 times
38.xx / 247 times
39.xx / 210 times
40.xx / 167 times
41.xx / 136 times
42.xx / 136 times
43.xx / 118 times
44.xx / 115 times
45.xx / 100 times
46.xx / 101 times
47.xx / 79 times
48.xx / 70 times
49.xx / 75 times
50.xx / 68 times
51.xx / 76 times
52.xx / 65 times
53.xx / 51 times
54.xx / 62 times
55.xx / 36 times
56.xx / 41 times
57.xx / 47 times
58.xx / 36 times
59.xx / 38 times
1m+ / 943 times



Sub-xx


Spoiler



All-time sub-30s: 2,619
All-time sub-25s: 276
All-time sub-20s: 2

Last 1,000 solves sub-30s: 554
Last 1,000 solves sub-25s: 94
Last 1,000 solves sub-20s: 0


----------



## efattah (Apr 19, 2016)

Shaky Hands said:


> I logged my 10,000th timed 3x3 solve about an hour ago, nearly 9 months after completing my first solve on 1st August 2015 (which took 6 hours, but I'm not that clever )
> Time for some self-reflection...
> I'm still hovering just under the 30 second mark as an average and am probably plateauing but now I'm past this 10,000 solve milestone I'm planning to do a few things I've been putting off:
> [/spoiler]



I went from 80s to sub-20 in 3 months and all I can say is that timed solves are the least valuable of all possible activities, this was my experience and also shared by many others. Slow untimed solves focusing on lookahead (including closing your eyes at random points and seeing how far you can continue), as well as cue drills like 'OLL trainer' or similar software that keep track of your average recog/execute time for each case, working on finger tricks, and other things as you already mentioned. I know a few top solvers and most spend less than 10% of their time doing timed solves. While I don't use CFOP, I did try it, and my own inexperienced opinion would be to learn algs for the 42 F2L cases, so you can ID the case, close your eyes, and solve it; then once your muscle memory can solve the F2L, you can forget about it and instead watch the pieces and find the next pair while solving the current one... but I'm sure better CFOP solvers can pitch in their suggestions.

Eric Fattah
Vancouver, BC


----------



## Logiqx (Apr 19, 2016)

Jason Green said:


> 4x4 doing 3-2-3 for edge pairing. After the first 3 dedges, if my next two are 4 pieces that need to pair should I just use flip alg for that? That's what I do now and it seems fine. I used to get confused and go insert a new dedge to pair by slice, slice back.



If the final four dedges are 2 pairs of matching pieces then the best approach is to solve one dedge with a regular slice move, replace it with one of the remaining dedges from U, slice back twice then place the final dedge such that a slice in the original direction solves all of them. It takes literally half the number of moves than two slice and flip algs. In answer to your original question you have little to loose using this approach after the first 3 dedges when you see 2 dedges in the E-layer(s) where you can create the first pair with a simple slice. Worst case you'll end up having to do a slice and flip alg for the final 2 dedges but if you happened to have the case I described above, you'll solve them optimally. 



Jason Green said:


> 4x4 PLL parity. How do I recognize the case? I'm lost. I do some alg, see what I get, do some other alg, until I can spot what's going on. Some are not as bad as others.



It just takes practice. If you see 3 sides which don't make sense together then you have parity. It can basically be one of two PLLs with parity and with experience you can execute your parity alg from the angle that gives the favourable PLL (e.g. T-perm instead of F-perm). In the interim just apply the parity alg and solve the resultant PLL. If you have no idea whether you have parity then solve the corners as if you are going to 2-look the PLL and if the EPLL looks weird then apply the parity alg before you do EPLL. Over time you'll recognise more and more case as having parity. E-perm is probably one of the harder ones to recognise.



Jason Green said:


> 5x5 last two centers. Same as 4x4 PLL I'm pretty clueless. You can ask @DavidWoner who judged my attempt in KC and taught me how to do a two layer sune for one case. Thanks David! I can build the 2x3 ok but that last row I don't know. Maybe I should know algs before I finish 2x3 even?



TBH the L2C become pretty intuitive but there are websites and videos listing all of the cases. Have a look at some of the easier algs to see how they work and from there you should start building up some intuition.


----------



## Logiqx (Apr 19, 2016)

efattah said:


> I went from 80s to sub-20 in 3 months and all I can say is that timed solves are the least valuable of all possible activities, this was my experience and also shared by many others. Slow untimed solves focusing on lookahead (including closing your eyes at random points and seeing how far you can continue



Exactly. Timed solves tell you where you are at but you learn more when you aren't against the clock. I've noticed this at different points in my cubing development (circa 45s and 20s) and I am guilty of doing way too many timed solves. You shouldn't spend more than 50% of your time against the clock but it would be better if you could keep that to 25% IMHO. Untimed solves allow you to observe what is happening to the cube and think about ways to improve your solves.

CFOP: Know your F2L cases such that you can look around the cube for your next pair whilst inserting the current pair. Ultimately you will look for the next pair as you start to solve the current pair but doing it during the insertion stage is your first goal. Whether you learn the F2L cases intuitively or algorithmically they end up the same with enough practice (i.e. muscle memory with an appreciation of what the pieces are doing). You need to be able to visualise how the pieces move around the cube so you can take your eyes off them and look for your next pair.


----------



## muchacho (Apr 19, 2016)

Logiqx said:


> Jason Green said:
> 
> 
> > 4x4 PLL parity. How do I recognize the case? I'm lost. I do some alg, see what I get, do some other alg, until I can spot what's going on. Some are not as bad as others.
> ...


Or you could just learn Roux (jk), I think that part is easier with that method.


----------



## JohnnyReggae (Apr 19, 2016)

I know there is a separate colour neutral thread, but I am curious if the older cubers around are colour neutral ? Unfortunately I am not, but I have plans to ultimately get there.


----------



## muchacho (Apr 19, 2016)

I solve with white or yellow on top and start the first block (I use Roux) on any of the other colors... but most of the time I start with blue, I'm a few seconds slower with the others unless it's a really good scramble for that color.


----------



## mafergut (Apr 19, 2016)

@Jason Green: What I do for PLL parity: having taken a look this Christmas to 2-side PLL recognition certainly helps, even though I don't know it that well that I can use it in 3x3 solves (because I'm faster just looking around the cube in some cases). So, there are cases where it's clear that you have parity (like just two corners and no edges or some weird case that does not match any of the PLL patterns you know. In others it might seem like you have a normal PLL (some G-perm cases or maybe an E-perm, not that sure right now). In those cases it's not bad if you just go with your G-perm and check if you still have parity in the end. It will also most probably be adjacent case, in my experience.

Regarding 5x5 L2C it's not bad it you check some cases as Michael says and they will become intuitive pretty soon.Like for when you just need to place the last corner (leave the odd dot in 1st center in right-front and the missing dot in up-right and do Rw U Rw'). Or if you happen to miss a 2-bar that you can place horizontally in up-left and the dot is in right-back you can pair the 3-bar with Rw', then F Rw to place it. Same if 2-bar is down-left and the dot is right-front, you can pair the 3-bar with Rw', then F' Rw to insert in place. Same with left-right mirrors of all these. Only case I hate is when I get the 2 corners but miss the final middle piece, not sure if there is an easy alg for these, I just pair one corner with the middle piece by putting the middle piece either up or down and get the missing dot case. But I can't even sub-4 at 5x5 so I'm sure others have better advice.

@JohnnyReggae: I am trying to become full CN at CFOP since a couple months, after more than two years being just dual white&yellow. Still a couple seconds slower at other cross colors, though.


----------



## mark49152 (Apr 19, 2016)

First chance for a week to go back and quote all the things I wanted to reply to!



h2f said:


> Calm (5BLD) reaction Mark.


That's relief combined with mental exhaustion and being dazzled after wearing a blindfold for far too long .



Shaky Hands said:


> Great video Mark. Love the editing and music and even though you'd already said it was a success I felt I was willing you on anyway!


I'm having too much fun with Movie Maker .



h2f said:


> Something changed in my 3bld. I took in mind what Jayden wrote about his progress - the key factor were good images. My goal is to be around 1 minute with my means.


Yeah I have also been trying to firm up my images. I waste too much time waiting for something memorable to come to me. I started an image list.

I have also been working on corner comms. I did a long average of OP corners as a benchmark, and they take me 24-26 seconds (26 recently, 24 last time I benchmarked in late 2015). Last week I did an average with comms and was sub-27, down from over a minute, so am progressing nicely - however, I spend way longer on inspection/memo working out what comms I will do. OP is of course zero inspection. My aim is to get down to 26 with minimal inspection and then I will start combining comms to regular BLD solves.

My other focus in BLD practice is to push my memo. It's way too slow, and doesn't improve unless pushed.



moralsh said:


> Mark, great sub 8 on 4BLD. I finally managed a sub 9 with an 8:17, memo still improving (sub 4 half of the times) but execution is still very slow, I need to address that.


4BLD is so much fun. I am looking forward to London being over so I can go back to practising 4BLD .



muchacho said:


> Almost 75 tries at corners BLD, only 12 successful ones so far, maybe I shouldn't rush them, but it's nice when I get a good time. I'm starting to do also impossible cases, with setup to possible ones because I don't know those algs yet, it's tricky, first one was a success, but I was probably lucky.


This is probably no surprise, but maybe you should learn a method that is easier, faster, only one alg, normal memo, and with a smoother transition to fast methods in future .



moralsh said:


> I have two more comps before ending the first half of the year (both organizer again ) in which I'll try to ... join the sub 20 3BLD club.


Good luck, that's a very exclusive club, dude . Seriously, good luck with the 4, 5 and MBLD. The race is on .



Jason Green said:


> 4x4 PLL parity. How do I recognize the case? I'm lost. I do some alg, see what I get, do some other alg, until I can spot what's going on. Some are not as bad as others.


I have two approaches to PLL on 4x4. By default, I do 2-look, including parity. So first, solve the corners. I use A-perm or Y-perm, and most importantly, recognition is almost zero. Then I'm left with an EPLL that may or may not include parity. With just edges, it's pretty easy to recognise all the individual cases, and I know algs for all of them, so no extra looks for parity. There are three extra cases: W-perm, Oa- and Ob-perm, plus the usual pure parity swaps. If you're interested, I can post the algs.

Second approach is that if I recognise the PLL by two sides, and it's one I can do fastish on 4x4, I will give that a try and cross my fingers for no parity. That gives me a good chance of a fast single. If I get parity, it generally doesn't save much over 2-look, because generally my other PLLs are way slower on 4x4 (at least than A-perm), and I spend more time on recognition.



h2f said:


>


Awesome, I enjoyed that - it kind of oozed stress and frustration


----------



## muchacho (Apr 19, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> This is probably no surprise, but maybe you should learn a method that is easier, faster, only one alg, normal memo, and with a smoother transition to fast methods in future .


That would the smartest thing to do, but it looked so boring. I think Boomerang can be as fast as OP, and faster if one have enough time to master it, I may be wrong, but that's what I thought when I chose it, and I'd like to know if I was wrong so I'll try.

How much time corners take (including memo) in an average solve with no parity with OP and advanced M2? 40-45%?


----------



## Logiqx (Apr 19, 2016)

JohnnyReggae said:


> I know there is a separate colour neutral thread, but I am curious if the older cubers around are colour neutral ? Unfortunately I am not, but I have plans to ultimately get there.



Marcel and I are both CN CFOP solvers. I glance at the cube and start planning whichever cross looks promising, reverting to white / yellow if I don't see anything special.

My distribution is around 50% white, 25% yellow, 25% other but my fastest competition solves are non-white / non-yellow.


----------



## mark49152 (Apr 19, 2016)

muchacho said:


> That would the smartest thing to do, but it looked so boring. I think Boomerang can be as fast as OP, and faster if one have enough time to master it, I may be wrong, but that's what I thought when I chose it, and I'll try to know if I was wrong.
> 
> How much time corners take (including memo) in an average solve with no parity with OP and advanced M2? Around 45%?


I haven't timed corner memo separately, but my current splits are roughly this: 40-60 memo, 30-32 edges, 24-26 corners.

Regarding Boomerang versus OP, I guess OP is kind of boring in that it's an obvious choice and an easy start, but it has clear advantages, and is really only as boring as you want to let it be. With OP, you memo as simple, sticker-based targets and cycles. You get used to tracing corners by sticker target, and setting up and swapping by stickers. You establish a strong memo system based on sticker recognition, preferably using letter pair memo. All the same as you would for edges (or centres), so it's consistent. None of this "U Sune U' 123" malarkey like in Boomerang, which is no use anywhere else.

Having that basic, solid foundation skill based on memo and swapping of stickers lets you easily start adding more advanced techniques on top of that (and that's where it stops being boring). Let's say my memo is TX UJ NF XP K. As a beginner I start out by solving each piece individually using OP. After a while, I learn a trick for PK, as it's just a corner twist. Then I learn a commutator for UJ, so I can solve those pieces in one step. But I still solve the rest with OP. Gradually I transition to comms and maybe in a year's time I'll solve most of that scramble with comms, and only use OP for odd targets or hard cases. Most of the fast guys solving in 20-30 seconds are still using those same basic foundations that come with with OP.

With Boomerang, sure, maybe you can master it, but then where do you go from there?


----------



## h2f (Apr 19, 2016)

I need a little break from CFOP so I'm back to Roux for few days.


mark49152 said:


> Awesome, I enjoyed that - it kind of oozed stress and frustration



5 minutes earlier I did ao 5 around 17.xx and ao12 18.xx in 3x3. 

Talking about images - I review my list and make better images. It works...


----------



## muchacho (Apr 19, 2016)

Thanks for the time splits, and yeah, transition to corners comms would be hell. Sorry, I forgot to say that I'm almost 100% sure I won't go any further than that, just try to master Boomerang and some advanced M2 tricks and see where that gets me. I won't try multibld either (maybe a 2/2 once).



h2f said:


> I need a little break from CFOP so I'm back to Roux for few days.


Nice!


----------



## moralsh (Apr 19, 2016)

@mark49152 I might find easier to sub 20 average on 3x3 than to get the 3BLD WR, but who am I to restrict myself to lower goals? xD

and yes, 4BLD is a lot of fun


----------



## Logiqx (Apr 19, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> I have two approaches to PLL on 4x4. By default, I do 2-look, including parity. So first, solve the corners. I use A-perm or Y-perm, and most importantly, recognition is almost zero. Then I'm left with an EPLL that may or may not include parity. With just edges, it's pretty easy to recognise all the individual cases, and I know algs for all of them, so no extra looks for parity. There are three extra cases: W-perm, Oa- and Ob-perm, plus the usual pure parity swaps. If you're interested, I can post the algs.



Perhaps you should consider learning COLL? I'm sure you know that 5/16 4x4 solves have all edges oriented (without edge control) so almost 1/3 solves are ideal for COLL + EPLL. Slightly over 1/3 if you use sledgehammer for your final pair. 

I've just started to learn COLL (excluding Sune cases) and have a plan for the next 7 weeks (attached). 4 cases per week, grouped where they look the same from above and / or where the algs are inversions of each other. I'm currently using week 1 algs in my Petrus solves and I learnt the week 2 algs / cases last night. 

Edit: Case names are from Roux. D = Bowtie, E = Headlights, F = Chameleon, G = Pi, H=Double-Sune


----------



## mark49152 (Apr 19, 2016)

Logiqx said:


> Perhaps you should consider learning COLL? I'm sure you know that 5/16 4x4 solves have all edges oriented (without edge control) so almost 1/3 solves are ideal for COLL + EPLL. Slightly over 1/3 if you use sledgehammer for your final pair.


Yes good point, thanks. I use a handful of easy COLLs already. For me, 9/16 solves are good for COLL as I use a setup to make sure that after OLL parity I always have all edges oriented. I use them quite frequently and used a Pi COLL in comp at Exeter . Rather than directly solving cases, I learned a smaller number of algs and the multiple cases I can apply those to to avoid diagonal corner swaps. Solved corners is a bonus. The main reason I haven't learned more is because I would put higher priority on learning to do more of my PLLs properly on 4x4, or replacing the algs.


----------



## Logiqx (Apr 19, 2016)

@mark49152 - Can you remind me of the setup + alg for your 3-flip?


----------



## mark49152 (Apr 19, 2016)

Logiqx said:


> @mark49152 - Can you remind me of the setup + alg for your 3-flip?


Mobile dropbox viewer won't let me copy, but start with the single solved dege on the right, do setup B' R', and provided your usual OLL parity alg also swaps UL and UR edges, that should work.


----------



## Shaky Hands (Apr 19, 2016)

@efattah @Logiqx

Thanks for the comments.

I agree that timed solves are not the ultimate practice ground. I saw I was close to getting to a big round number of solves and decided to get up to the big 10K before putting the timed solves to bed for a while. I can credit timed solves with helping my TPS a bit and embedding the stuff I do know, but I'm quite looking forward to learning some new skills.

First off for me will be getting more to grips with Advanced Cross. I blitzed through some youtube videos at lunchtime and am keen to reduce the move-count I use on this step. It will help my dodgy FMC attempts in the Weekly Comp too. 

I've found big cubes help my lookahead on 3x3 so will be mixing those in where time allows. (I got a new 5x5 PB today too which gives me big 's.) I'm aware of the closing-eyes method and have used it periodically, not always with success, but hey, practice is the name of the game!

I don't suspect I'll ever get super-fast (my username is a result of nerve damage from 25+ years ago and has an unavoidable effect) but I've got definite room to improve and a good idea of how to do it.

Cheers!


----------



## Lid (Apr 19, 2016)

First gigaminx solve since thursday(?): *16:56.36*

Have loosen all side since last solve, so I guess it helped abit


----------



## h2f (Apr 19, 2016)

I've bought Aoshi and sold my 6x6 SS (I really hated that cube). Cant wait it'll arrive. I bought it from a guy who won it during Polish Open. Unfornatetly I didnt win though I could take a place in 5 bld during PO. The prize was Aoshi.


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## h2f (Apr 20, 2016)

3rd solve of the day, after 50 timed solves and the other 50 or more untimed I got first sub-20 (*19.83*) solve with an easy scramble:

R2 F2 L2 U2 B L2 D2 B D2 B' F' R D L D' U B' L' F2 L' F'

z' y //preinspection
r2 F B //FB 3/3
U' r' U' r' U' r2 M' U' R U' R' U R U' R' U2 R' U R //SB 20/23
U' R U R' U R U L' U R' U' L //CMLL
R2 U' R' U' R U R U R U' R U' //LSE Uperm

alg.cubing.net
46stm.
Lucky solve - easy first block, lucky pair on second block, cmll I was practicing yesterday and U perm in the end. I did U perm with standard way.


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## muchacho (Apr 20, 2016)

One day and already fast, gj. I'll try the scramble later, I bet I won't see the easy first block.


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## h2f (Apr 20, 2016)

It's my 4th or 5th meeting with Roux. I've made a tutorial to it and I knew all cmll set earlier (but forgot). I got a little lookahead from CFOP and now it's easier. If I was sure I can be sub-20 in time of few months I would switch but now I'm not thinking about it - just some fun with block buildings. And I started to be y/x color neutral (earlier I was x2/y2 but y/x gives more fun).


----------



## muchacho (Apr 20, 2016)

h2f said:


> 3rd solve of the day, after 50 timed solves and the other 50 or more untimed I got first sub-20 (*19.83*) solve with an easy scramble:
> 
> R2 F2 L2 U2 B L2 D2 B D2 B' F' R D L D' U B' L' F2 L' F'
> 
> ...


Yeah, did not see that block, I need to work with that online block trainer, this is what I did:
x' y'
M' Uw' F2 U2 B R' U M U M' L' U L (bad in several ways)
21.919

This is what I may had done if I had tried that block:
y' x' U2 B' L2 U2 F2


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## h2f (Apr 20, 2016)

2nd seems decent. I cant do the first block on the right.


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## muchacho (Apr 20, 2016)

h2f said:


> 2nd seems decent. I cant do the first block on the right.


First try was on the left, sometimes I start on the right and some on the left, when I started trying CN I didn't know people always start on the left, then I thought it can't too bad so I kept doing it. Do you see the pattern? I use to do things differently just for the sake of it.


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## h2f (Apr 20, 2016)

muchacho said:


> Do you see the pattern? I use to do things differently just for the sake of it.



He he. Nothing wise comes to my mind.


----------



## muchacho (Apr 20, 2016)

Yeah, not wise at all but sometimes it may lead to something interesting, challenging or just fun, which for a hobby is nice.


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## newtonbase (Apr 20, 2016)

Anyone going to the Irish Championship? I'd have to cash in a lot of points with the wife but I've never been to Ireland before.


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## h2f (Apr 20, 2016)

Next sub-20 with Roux: 18.55 with cmll skip but a long lse. 



Spoiler



B2 L2 B2 L D2 U2 R' U2 B2 L' F2 B' R B2 D2 U' L' B2 D'
x2 y'
D2 r' U' R U R' F //FB
U r' U' r U' M' U' M U2 R U' R' //sb
M' U2 M U' M' U2 M U' M U2 M2 U' M' U2 M U2 M U2 M' U2


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## Shaky Hands (Apr 20, 2016)

@newtonbase - very tempted, although I'm up in Scotland just before it so am seeing how feasible it could be. Ireland is a cool country.


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## newtonbase (Apr 20, 2016)

Shaky Hands said:


> @newtonbase - very tempted, although I'm up in Scotland just before it so am seeing how feasible it could be. Ireland is a cool country.


I could definitely do it. It's a 4am start on the Saturday and home at 2am Monday morning. Cost is around £200. I'm used to the lack of sleep as I have young kids and the cost is no issue but the wife would be on her own with a crazy tearaway and a 7 year old who thinks she's a teenager. I'm going to have to be a very good husband.


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## Shaky Hands (Apr 21, 2016)

@newtonbase I might look into the ferry from Holyhead. Flight times don't look too good for me. I don't sleep much either after 8 years of being on-call at work. Good luck with wifey.

EDIT: Birmingham airport might work for me.


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## mark49152 (Apr 21, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> Anyone going to the Irish Championship? I'd have to cash in a lot of points with the wife but I've never been to Ireland before.


I'm tempted, just waiting to see the schedule. I was seriously considering Euros, but the cutoffs for 4x4 and 5x5 are awful so I'd only get two solves and no average in each. Certainly I don't have enough points for two comps abroad. So it's a choice between Euros for the occasion or Irish for a full complement of events.


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## newtonbase (Apr 21, 2016)

The travel timings for the Euros weren't possible for me. I'd have needed a night either end. The only issue with Ireland is that I have to use Stansted which is a bit of a drive. 
We are spending my birthday celebrating my wife's friend's 40th that month so maybe I could get get enough points from that?


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## Shaky Hands (Apr 21, 2016)

Now realised I won't be able to get to the Irish Championships anyway. Not actually back from the Highlands until after the 580 mile drive home on Sunday 24th. Good luck to people if they decide to go. Will try to follow on cubecomps.


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## Logiqx (Apr 21, 2016)

How to feel like a noob but an interesting view nonetheless. Worth watching all 25 minutes!


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## mark49152 (Apr 21, 2016)

Logiqx said:


> How to feel like a noob but an interesting view nonetheless. Worth watching all 25 minutes!


Yeah I felt like a noob by 5 minutes in . Maybe I'll go watch it again once I'm able to do my F2L in <5 seconds without edge orientation!


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## Logiqx (Apr 21, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> Yeah I felt like a noob by 5 minutes in . Maybe I'll go watch it again once I'm able to do my F2L in <5 seconds without edge orientation!



Hehe. That's about where I got to on my first viewing.

The example solves during the rest of the video are really interesting and give insight into what he can see whilst solving.

There's one solve where he's half way through multi-slotting and realises he can combine it with WV. lol


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## Logiqx (Apr 21, 2016)

On another note... I'm busy during the weekend of the Irish Championships.


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## Selkie (Apr 21, 2016)

I have been busy with work, a training course and decorating our living room with little practice time and what a lot of posts. I have skimmed through and will try and find 20 minutes this evening with a beer to read back missed posts.

Whilst I have had little practice time, I have far more today and been doing a Megaminx average of 50 by getting up really early and fitted it in work breaks and lunch etc.

Most pleasing is the two sub 2:30 solves which is UK average cut but also a sub 3:00 Ao5 and PB also for the Ao12

*Megaminx*
number of times: 50/50
best time: *2:27.43*
worst time: 3:55.15

current avg5: 3:17.20 (σ = 5.58)
best avg5: *2:56.31* (σ = 4.19)

current avg12: 3:13.45 (σ = 7.99)
best avg12: *3:03.19* (σ = 17.29)

current avg50: 3:10.95 (σ = 11.53)
best avg50: 3:10.95 (σ = 11.53)

session avg: 3:10.95 (σ = 11.53)
session mean: 3:10.57

3:15.25, 3:21.75, 3:29.54, 3:31.34,3:14.31, 3:04.25, 3:16.49, 3:06.07,3:23.03, 2:55.29, 3:29.04, 2:51.11,3:10.32, 3:33.63, 3:13.59, 2:36.99,3:01.09, 2:54.57, 3:15.07, 2:53.26,3:19.05, 3:14.06, 3:13.26, 3:06.33,3:06.75, 2:56.57, 3:22.55, 3:05.05,3:39.64, 2:27.43, 2:58.16, 3:10.85,3:04.26, 3:04.13, 3:18.32, 3:08.43,2:28.56, 3:39.32, 3:26.67, 2:40.42,3:12.14, 3:12.45, 3:02.41, 3:10.76,3:17.18, 3:10.82, 3:19.59, 3:55.15,3:21.19, 3:01.25


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## mafergut (Apr 21, 2016)

@Selkie: Chris, you went all the way from winning our sub 3:30 race to almost winning already the sub 3:00 race  Congratulations. I have not had time to practice this week at all. I have not even done a single solve on my new Dayan Mega with ridges  I hope I can get back to practice a bit on the weekend. You improve too fast for us to keep up, man.


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## muchacho (Apr 21, 2016)

Really nice Selkie!

My stickerless Dayan arrived today, but I'll have to wait a bit more to restart Mega.

PB on 3x3: 14.352 (last was 15.271 from 1 week ago)

14508 21-abr-2016 16:16:36 00:14.352 F2 U' B2 R2 D' L2 F2 D B2 U2 B2 R' B' L2 D2 R B U L U L U'
y' x
U' F U2 B M' U' M U2 L' U L
U' Rw2 R U' R' U Rw U' Rw' U' R' U R
U' R U R' U R U2 R'
U' M' U M U M' U' M U2 M U' M2 U' M2

46 STM (3.2 tps)



h2f said:


> Next sub-20 with Roux: 18.55 with cmll skip but a long lse.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Congrats, nice FB as usual, I got 25 seconds on that scramble, this is how it started:
x' z'
R' U F' R U M U M' U2 B


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## h2f (Apr 21, 2016)

@muchacho, nice result and thank you.

I found this on your scramble

y' x' 
F E2 (or u2 U2) R' U F' //FB


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## muchacho (Apr 21, 2016)

That FB is beautiful, do you always see the FB on the inspection time?


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## h2f (Apr 21, 2016)

muchacho said:


> That FB is beautiful, do you always see the FB on the inspection time?


I think in 60-70% of my solves I can plan fb. If I cant I do square. But often I'm to lazy and I plan only square. Kavin's tutorial helped me a lot. If there's nice edge with center I start with this on the left. If i have a bottom pair without a center I start with it on the left - this is how it goes in this fb. If there's no pair and no edge and center I stare with edge of the fb on the left. These only rules I do. Earlier I did always my center on the left and did connection with D/D' moves but it's not efficient and this is not creative. Keeping only edge of fb on the left and doing tricks with center allows to have more possibilites to creat blocks. This is what I think about fb in Roux. I've implemented it now when I've switched few days ago and you see how good it works. I'm surprised that I see blocks I've never seen before.

But now I'm trying to remeber my cmlls and it's hard - I know all H set and Pi set, but only few cases from T, Chameleon and Headlights. My sunes and antisunes sucks.


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## muchacho (Apr 21, 2016)

Thanks for the tips. Wish the algs will come back to you easily (I suppose it will be easier than learning them for the first time, right?).


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## h2f (Apr 21, 2016)

muchacho said:


> Thanks for the tips. Wish the algs will come back to you easily (I suppose it will be easier than learning them for the first time, right?).



I hope so. BTW I like your cmll trainer!


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## muchacho (Apr 21, 2016)

Thanks, even I have not used it much, so sorry if you find some error in it.


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## h2f (Apr 21, 2016)

It's good trainer. I got first fullstep sub20 - 19.53 with 2look cmll.


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## muchacho (Apr 21, 2016)

Nice. I've got a couple of 17 with 2-look cmlls, but many of the good times are S, As or U (sets that I don't know) with an unexpected skip of the second part of the cmll.


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## Lid (Apr 21, 2016)

Two Sq-1 PB s today 
*
10.247* single & *17.374* avg of 12

(10.247), (21.237), 16.375, 19.435, 19.814, 18.585, 18.289, 17.358, 14.025, 16.235, 19.519, 14.108

Here is the single scamble:
(4, 6) / (5, -4) / (0, -3) / (4, -2) / (-1, -1) / (4, 0) / (6, 0) / (-3, 0) / (-4, 0) / (-5, -2) / (0, -3) /


Spoiler: Solution



/-1,0/-3,0/ || CS
-2,-3/0,3/ || CO
6,0/-3,0/3,0/-1,-1/-2,1/3,0/ || EO (special one, swaps other pieces than the usual 1+1)
-1,-4/3,0/-3,0/3,0/-3,0/-3,1 || Leaves an easy PBL, N/J


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## Selkie (Apr 21, 2016)

@mafergut Migual, @muchacho David - Thank you. To be fair have not practiced much other than Megaminx in the last week or so. Do feel I can possibly get down to UK cut in 2-3 months with practice. Its a fun puzzle and the DaYan is breaking in well.

I have had a MoYu YJ YuHu stickerless megaminx delivered and straight out of the box it is so smooth and fast and has the same colour scheme as the DaYan. It wont replace my DaYan for a few reasons:-

The two green shades of the YuHu are very close together, far too close for comfort.
My aged fingers have gotten very used to the ridges and solving without ridges basically entails my fingertips slipping off the corners 
It feels quite locky on repeated RU'R'U commutators for corner orientation of last layer but it is quite lose out of the box which may be the reason
Need to start a practice regime for London but not sure what to concentrate on. Should really get practicing 4x4 since I missed it at Exeter.

@Lid Stefan - Awesome Sq1 and Giga times. Which gigaminx do you have?

@Shaky Hands Andy - My stickerless 6x6 and 7x7 have arrived and though the red/pink swap on the 6x6 will take some getting used to, I am confident I can so my black AoShi 6x6 is looking forward to meeting its new owner in London 

@Logiqx , Mike, thanks for posting the Faz video on edge control in F2L, having learned WV which I will be building into my solves post London Open, was really good to watch this


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## mafergut (Apr 22, 2016)

@Selkie: Chris, my main problem with the YJ Yuhu is that it's very unstable. When you hold it in your hand it's too easy to misalign a layer and cause lockups. Maybe it's just that mine is too loose or that I got one of the first batches with croocked screws but the fact is that it's a pain to solve with it.

I have not solved yet with the Dayan but just holding it in my hand I feel like I push inadvertently on the ridges and also cause the layers to misaling so my impression is that I'm not going to adapt to it well, but maybe I just need to hold it differently. Will solve it this weekend but the little time I've had this week I have been breaking in the CB G4.

Anyway, don't be so humble, I don't think I would have come down to sub 3:00 even if I had practiced as much as you say you had this week. I don't think I'll ever get down to sub 2:30 either.


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## h2f (Apr 22, 2016)

First solve with Aoshi and a pop. I hour of assambling it but I'm not sure if I had not to redo and clean original lube. Shall I?


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## MarcelP (Apr 22, 2016)

h2f said:


> First solve with Aoshi and a pop. I hour of assambling it but I'm not sure if I had not to redo and clean original lube. Shall I?


Oh man, I would never spend an hour of my precious time on assembling a cube  Persisent type you are.. LOL


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## h2f (Apr 22, 2016)

MarcelP said:


> Oh man, I would never spend an hour of my precious time on assembling a cube  Persisent type you are.. LOL



Please dont tell...  BTW Aoshi is great. I like the cube. I could have 6:xx but screwed parity.


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## Selkie (Apr 22, 2016)

@mafergut , Miguel. Thank you. I really do hope I can make UK cut in time but I think I am going to have to learn some LL OLLs to get there.

Just had this sub 3:00 Average of 12
2:58.37, 2:45.05, (3:25.79), 2:57.39, 3:00.13,3:04.47, 3:04.03, 3:05.48, 2:53.02,3:04.97, 3:04.42, (2:41.51) = *2:59.73*

@h2f , Grzegorz: Oh dear those 6x6 pops can be epic. Caught one on film a few months ago  ...






Glad you are enjoying solving it. Have my stcikerless Aoshi now so another 6x6 to break in and @Shaky Hands (Andy) is having my black stickered one


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## h2f (Apr 22, 2016)

Selkie said:


> Grzegorz: Oh dear those 6x6 pops can be epic. Caught one on film a few months ago  ...
> 
> Glad you are enjoying solving it. Have my stcikerless Aoshi now so another 6x6 to break in and @Shaky Hands (Andy) is having my black stickered one



Yeah, I remeber...  My Aoshi popped in 1/4, I mean I had to assamble only 1/4 of the cube, but wasnt sure which parts are which. Yes, finally I got a good cube and start to enjoy 6x6. I have a lot of fun with Roux. My ao100 rolled to 28.xx.


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## Lid (Apr 22, 2016)

Selkie said:


> [USER=1732]@Lid Stefan - Awesome Sq1 and Giga times. Which gigaminx do you have?[/USER]


It's a black ShengShou, got it from zcube.


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## mafergut (Apr 22, 2016)

Very nice Gigaminx indeed. I just solved mine once so far but it's an awesome puzzle and quite cheap at zcube if someone wants to get one.

Gonna start breaking in my Dayan Mega and see how much I like it 

EDIT: But first I had to do my weekly comp 4x4 scrambles... already loving my CB G4. Still catching a bit but it's so much better than either the Aosu or Guansu!!! And the stickerless shades are so nice as well. Now I wish I could have all my cubes in those shades. Got a PB single of 1:14, by the way


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## Selkie (Apr 22, 2016)

mafergut said:


> EDIT: But first I had to do my weekly comp 4x4 scrambles... already loving my CB G4. Still catching a bit but it's so much better than either the Aosu or Guansu!!! And the stickerless shades are so nice as well. Now I wish I could have all my cubes in those shades. Got a PB single of 1:14, by the way



Its a lovely puzzle isn't it? Mine had inner slice catching when I first got it but it stops after a while. I agree the stickerless shades of the CB G4 is awesome. Wish all stickerless were the same. Well, having said that the XMen Tornado is great shades too.

Have fun with your DaYan megaminx 

@Lid , Stefan, I can feel a Gigaminx order coming on


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## mafergut (Apr 22, 2016)

@Selkie: Chris, didn't I convince you to order a Gigaminx with my unboxing already?


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## Selkie (Apr 22, 2016)

Found a UK supplier for the Gigaminx at £29.99 as well. Definitely ordering one this evening.

Other big decision of the evening is to learn megaminx corner only OLLs, 16 cases. corner OLL is so slow with comms.

Anyone know if this is a good set of algs for orienting the corners?

http://www.kungfoomanchu.com/guides/andy-klise-megaminx.pdf


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## muchacho (Apr 22, 2016)

I was going to use this ones (but don't know which are better), @Lid may know.
http://sarah.cubing.net/megaminx/ocll


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## newtonbase (Apr 22, 2016)

My G4 hardly catches at all now and I agree that the colours are great. I have no recognition issues. I've been practicing the edge swap parity alg from waaaay up thread. I'm not a heavy user of finger tricks as my hands are terribly slow and stiff but this alg is so much faster for me when done right. 
Uw2 Rw2 U2 r2 U2 Rw2 Uw2
Thank you to whoever pointed it out. 
PS I haven't got permission to go to Ireland and I'm not pushing it as I'm saving points for an overnight stay at the UKs (and the Worlds next year if they are in Europe) .


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## h2f (Apr 22, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> PS I haven't got permission to go to Ireland and I'm not pushing it as I'm saving points for an overnight stay at the UKs (and the Worlds next year if they are in Europe) .



It would be awsome to meet it they were in Gdańsk. I've heard there's a chance they are there in the venue where Polish Nationals were last year.


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## newtonbase (Apr 22, 2016)

h2f said:


> It would be awsome to meet it they were in Gdańsk. I've heard there's a chance they are there in the venue where Polish Nationals were last year.


Poland would be a good choice (but not as good as the UK☺).


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## Selkie (Apr 22, 2016)

Gigaminx ordered 

And while I am on a spending spree, think a couple of new Rubik's T-Shirts 

https://rubiks-uk.spreadshirt.co.uk/


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## h2f (Apr 22, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> Poland would be a good choice (but not as good as the UK☺).



He, he. I wish not.


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## earth2dan (Apr 22, 2016)

mafergut said:


> EDIT: But first I had to do my weekly comp 4x4 scrambles... already loving my CB G4. Still catching a bit but it's so much better than either the Aosu or Guansu!!! And the stickerless shades are so nice as well. Now I wish I could have all my cubes in those shades. Got a PB single of 1:14, by the way



Nice PB! How do you find the Red/Orange on that CB G4? I almost bought one recently but in the pictures I saw the Red/Orange looked a little too similar. I've always loved CB stickerless colours, but the G4 looks different from other CB cubes, like they went with a brighter colour scheme.


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## Jason Green (Apr 22, 2016)

earth2dan said:


> Nice PB! How do you find the Red/Orange on that CB G4? I almost bought one recently but in the pictures I saw the Red/Orange looked a little too similar. I've always loved CB stickerless colours, but the G4 looks different from other CB cubes, like they went with a brighter colour scheme.


I used it in KC and it was easy to tell the colors apart.


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## mafergut (Apr 22, 2016)

earth2dan said:


> Nice PB! How do you find the Red/Orange on that CB G4? I almost bought one recently but in the pictures I saw the Red/Orange looked a little too similar. I've always loved CB stickerless colours, but the G4 looks different from other CB cubes, like they went with a brighter colour scheme.


I can distinguish orange and red well enough. The red is quite dark and the orange is clearly lighter so no problem with that at all. I would recommend you to try it.

Sent from my Nexus 4 with Tapatalk


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## earth2dan (Apr 22, 2016)

Jason Green said:


> I used it in KC and it was easy to tell the colors apart.





mafergut said:


> I can distinguish orange and red well enough. The red is quite dark and the orange is clearly lighter so no problem with that at all. I would recommend you to try it.



Well I'm sold. Thanks guys! 

Also, my stickerless BoChuang 5x5 just arrived! First impression is the stickerless variant feels nicer than the stickered one (as usual). I'll need to break it in and see how I feel about these colours, but this just might be my new main 5x5.


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## newtonbase (Apr 22, 2016)

earth2dan said:


> Nice PB! How do you find the Red/Orange on that CB G4? I almost bought one recently but in the pictures I saw the Red/Orange looked a little too similar. I've always loved CB stickerless colours, but the G4 looks different from other CB cubes, like they went with a brighter colour scheme.


I have no trouble with red/orange or any of the other colours. You really can't trust colours in photos.


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## Jason Green (Apr 22, 2016)

I really need a new 4x4 and 5x5.  The one I used was not mine, I have the older CB.


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## newtonbase (Apr 22, 2016)

G4 and Yuxin 5x5. STICKERLESS!


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## earth2dan (Apr 22, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> G4 and Yuxin 5x5. STICKERLESS!


I wasn't sold on the Yuxin 5x5 stickerless colours at first, but they've really grown on me and I quite like them now. I'm gonna do a bunch of 5x5 solves this weekend with my stickerless Yuxin and BoChuang to see which takes top spot.


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## Selkie (Apr 22, 2016)

I had a Yuxin on black which I replaced with a BoChuang on black, that got replaced with a BoChuang stickerless (Used at Exeter Open) but just like a few reports I have heard, 100+ solves in and yet another BoChuang slows right up, almost as if the plastic is very soft. Received the Yuxin stickerless the other day and whilst the red/orange are closer than the BoChuang I think it will become my main.

Only skewb to go as my mains at the moment:-
2x2: DaYan (Stickerless)
3x3: X-Men Tornado (Stickerless)
4x4: Cyclone Boys G4 (Stickerless)
5x5: MoYu BoChuang (Stickerless) or Yuxin (Stickerless)
6x6: AoShi (Stickerless)
7x7: AoSu GT (Stickerless)
Sq1: Qiyi (Stickerless)
Pyra: Qiyi (Stickerless)
Mega: DaYan Ridged (Stickerless)
Skewb: Lanlan on ... Black (This needs replacing)


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## earth2dan (Apr 22, 2016)

Selkie said:


> I had a Yuxin on black which I replaced with a BoChuang on black, that got replaced with a BoChuang stickerless (Used at Exeter Open) but just like a few reports I have heard, 100+ solves in and yet another BoChuang slows right up, almost as if the plastic is very soft. Received the Yuxin stickerless the other day and whilst the red/orange are closer than the BoChuang I think it will become my main.
> 
> Only skewb to go as my mains at the moment:-
> 2x2: DaYan (Stickerless)
> ...



I just ordered a bunch of stickerless puzzles. In fact, four of them are in your list . Though so far I don't really have any stickerless mains. It's a real close fight between my Yuxin 5x5 and stickered BoChuang at the moment, and I'll be adding the stickerless BoChuang to that fight now. I have noticed recently that my stickered BoChuang seems to be slowing down. I didn't know this was a thing, I thought maybe I messed it up by lubing it...


----------



## Shaky Hands (Apr 22, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> I've been practicing the edge swap parity alg from waaaay up thread. I'm not a heavy user of finger tricks as my hands are terribly slow and stiff but this alg is so much faster for me when done right.
> Uw2 Rw2 U2 r2 U2 Rw2 Uw2
> Thank you to whoever pointed it out.



I'm converting to using this alg instead of r2 U2 r2 Uw2 r2 u2 - so many less moves on inner slices, so seems to make sense for it to be faster.



Selkie said:


> And while I am on a spending spree, think a couple of new Rubik's T-Shirts
> 
> https://rubiks-uk.spreadshirt.co.uk/



Some of these look awesome. Thanks for the tip.



earth2dan said:


> Nice PB! How do you find the Red/Orange on that CB G4? I almost bought one recently but in the pictures I saw the Red/Orange looked a little too similar. I've always loved CB stickerless colours, but the G4 looks different from other CB cubes, like they went with a brighter colour scheme.



I'm a big fan of the CB G4 stickerless and it's replaced the Aosu as my main. It did pop on my second solve of the last comp, but that's one of only 3 times in many many solves. I have had an occasional DNF after not spotting opposite-swap of red-orange in PLL parity, but have no problem with the edges. In fact, it encourages me to observe the permutation better to ensure I get it right.


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## Jason Green (Apr 23, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> G4 and Yuxin 5x5. STICKERLESS!


That's what I'm thinking. I'm not in a huge hurry. 

Actually I'm not sure about stickerless either. Funny because the first several months I was speed cubing I used the new island stickerless from Amazon. They are ok, but I kind of like stickered. Although the G4 I used was stickerless and it was very nice.

Edit: Seems like every time I post I roll the page on Tapatalk.


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## mafergut (Apr 23, 2016)

Selkie said:


> I had a Yuxin on black which I replaced with a BoChuang on black,[...]
> 
> Only skewb to go as my mains at the moment:-
> [...]Skewb: Lanlan on ... Black (This needs replacing)


Can't believe you haven't ordered a Qiyi skweb in stickerless already. It's great, even better than my Moyu, or so they say.

EDIT: By the way. 1st Mega Ao5 with the Dayan ridged, after just a couple other solves when I unboxed it. Got a 3:04.85 single, close to PB and I'm starting to think I might like the puzzle (my 1st impression had not been great). I got a screw shot to space the 1st time I scrambled it (center cover, screw, spring and washer went sky high on their own). It looks like sides are loosening and I'm afraid other screws might come off flying. Should I tighten all sides a bit? Other that that I got quite consistent times around 3:40 even though I still need to get used to the milky colours of stickerless. It also looks like, with all Dayan puzzles, it needs a lot of breaking in to get really good.

EDIT2: Sunday afternoon edit (to avoid double posting) This thread is so strangely silent that I'm afraid maybe a zombie apocalypse has hit the Earth and I haven't realized it yet. I hope you guys are all well and in competitions or in Hawaii sunbathing or something  Just for you to know I tried my 1st solves at 7x7 (other than 2 untimed ones I did earlier this week), Got a best solve of 20:35.xx and then a 25min one why? I thought I could only improve at this stage but maybe I was tired as it was my 4th solve. In the end a DNF avg after a center piece pop in my 2nd solve and a screwup with flipping alg while finishing my last 2 edges in the 5th when I was at 19min anyway because I had already broken my centers when halfway through L2C and reconstructed them again, so it was going to be like a 22min but after so many fails I decided it was enough and DNFed it. Feel... So... Tired...


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## Selkie (Apr 25, 2016)

@mafergut - Wow the thread has been quiet! Re screw/spring/cap popping, yes I even get this now and setting the screws tighter does resolve the issue but I do worry how much thread on the core is shredded each time it happens. I did a lot of untimed solves yesterday and have optimised my megaminx LL and learned 12/16 Corner OLLs and 4 EPLLs. Funily enough have also been solving on my non-ridged DaYan and really don't know which I prefer!

Gigaminx is here and what a lovely puzzle it is. First timed solve, only second overall which was 35:26.75. I have a meeting in London tomorrow with a total of 5 hours of train rides to and from. Think I'll take only the megaminx and gigaminx


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## mafergut (Apr 25, 2016)

Selkie said:


> @mafergut - Wow the thread has been quiet! Re screw/spring/cap popping, yes I even get this now and setting the screws tighter does resolve the issue but I do worry how much thread on the core is shredded each time it happens. I did a lot of untimed solves yesterday and have optimised my megaminx LL and learned 12/16 Corner OLLs and 4 EPLLs. Funily enough have also been solving on my non-ridged DaYan and really don't know which I prefer!
> 
> Gigaminx is here and what a lovely puzzle it is. First timed solve, only second overall which was 35:26.75. I have a meeting in London tomorrow with a total of 5 hours of train rides to and from. Think I'll take only the megaminx and gigaminx


Oh my! At long last, it looks like there's life out there after all  A bit bulky to use on a train trip, don't you think? (I mean the Giga, of course). Regarding Mega LL I also have to learn something more advanced but the key is "when" 

And with the Dayan screw pops I will try to tighten the sides as I feel they are a bit loose and before they go flying. I'm also concerned with core damage. And regarding ridges I was thinking about that as well, ridges give me more traction but they disturb my turning a bit as they protrude from the surface of the puzzle so much. Don't tell me I'll have to buy also a non-ridged one because, I tell you, I will end up modding my SS


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## Jason Green (Apr 25, 2016)

Selkie said:


> @mafergut - Wow the thread has been quiet! Re screw/spring/cap popping, yes I even get this now and setting the screws tighter does resolve the issue but I do worry how much thread on the core is shredded each time it happens. I did a lot of untimed solves yesterday and have optimised my megaminx LL and learned 12/16 Corner OLLs and 4 EPLLs. Funily enough have also been solving on my non-ridged DaYan and really don't know which I prefer!
> 
> Gigaminx is here and what a lovely puzzle it is. First timed solve, only second overall which was 35:26.75. I have a meeting in London tomorrow with a total of 5 hours of train rides to and from. Think I'll take only the megaminx and gigaminx


It has been quiet. I made that comment once several months ago, but thought I would not mention it this time as I am quite sure it will pick back up it's torrid pace on its own! 

Cube club at the elementary starts this afternoon. Excited to see how that goes!!


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## muchacho (Apr 25, 2016)

I'm still (slightly) more alive than a zombie. I hit 15.000 timed 3x3 solves (I'll post a graph) and decided to take a rest from it and then try (again, we'll see if I succeed this time) to do less timed solves and more untimed, also my black Dayan Megaminx have not arrived yet so I've taken 4x4 to do that event and the 2-4 relay on the WC.

The Guansu 4x4 is nice, I have a new ao12 PB, 2:36, it was 2:39 from almost 3 months ago. edit: also 2:02 single


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## mafergut (Apr 25, 2016)

What can I say, I was starting to miss you guys! @Jason Green: already wanting to know how the 1st day of the cube club goes!!! @muchacho: David, nice milestone 15K solves. I have long stopped counting them but I had more than 12K on record around oct-2014 so it must be... a lot by now  Also a sign that I do way too many timed solves and too few untimed ones. The Guansu is nice indeed but I find it a bit rigid (too hard plastic) and it does not corner cut that much. I'm starting to break my G4 in and I don't think I'm looking back 

Also, I'm thinking about a new order. Right now I just have the Yuxin YuQiLin keyring 3x3 because it's so cute and turns so well for a 35mm cube  also an Axis 3x3 (YJ) and... yes, I was thinking about a Lingao Clock, just because it's WCA even though I have said several times it's not a twisty puzzle and I don't care about it  I was thinking about a couple 2x2s, a Wittwo Type C v1 and the new WeiPo but it is still on pre-order at thecubicle only. I'm discarding de QiYi Cavs after watching a couple reviews. I need also a 6x6 but that will have to wait until either the Aoshi is dirt cheap / on sale or new 6x6s come out and I also don't want the Aoshi in candy colors (hate them) and was thinking about stickerless for big cubes (yeah, I know, AoFu GT in black... mistake!!!!!). I was even thinking about a Yuxin 5x5 stickerless, even though I'm falling in love with my black/stickered Bochuang. And I also wanted some sort of ghost cube but I don't want to buy the Lim/FS 2x2 ghost because it's a ripoff of Virust Cube and I don't like the only mass produced 3x3 ghost (FangCun) that's affordable so it would have to be a Mefferts, which is quite expensive... See my dilemma?  I really need help with my addiction... or help to finish my shopping cart


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## h2f (Apr 25, 2016)

@mafergut I got my Aoshi for around 22 euros - it's quite cheap, brand new (only 3 solves) and I love it. Finally I start solving 6x6 but my times are around 7:30.


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## Jason Green (Apr 25, 2016)

h2f said:


> @mafergut I got my Aoshi for around 22 euros - it's quite cheap, brand new (only 3 solves) and I love it. Finally I start solving 6x6 but my times are around 7:30.


That's about what my 5x5 times are.  although I had a low 5 min the other day, I'm improving at L2C so that helps a ton.


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## mafergut (Apr 25, 2016)

h2f said:


> @mafergut I got my Aoshi for around 22 euros - it's quite cheap, brand new (only 3 solves) and I love it. Finally I start solving 6x6 but my times are around 7:30.



It costs between $33 and $39 + shipping wherever I have checked (lightake, zcube, thecubicle). And after watching all those terrible pops I think I'll pass for now


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## CLL Smooth (Apr 25, 2016)

dingleb115 said:


> Round 248
> *23.41*
> 22.43, 21.42, 24.44, 21.19, 24.58, (19.82), 27.08, 25.39, 21.75, 24.42, (27.83), 21.44
> 
> ...


Dug this up earlier. Don't know why I thought I'd have time to practice with a newborn.
This morning she sat on my lap through most of a 2x2 Ao100: 4.75


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## earth2dan (Apr 25, 2016)

mafergut said:


> It costs between $33 and $39 + shipping wherever I have checked (lightake, zcube, thecubicle). And after watching all those terrible pops I think I'll pass for now


I haven't popped my Aoshi yet. I have a ShengShou 6x6 as well and there's no comparison, the Aoshi is immeasurably better. I've locked it up a couple times, but no pops. Granted I'm not very fast, I only just recently got my first sub-6. And I agree about those stickerless colours. I'd love a stickerless Aoshi, but those pink candy colours look awful to me. I have both a black and a stickerless AoFu GT (the bright red one) on the way... because evidently I hate money


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## newtonbase (Apr 25, 2016)

I've been waiting 6 weeks for my Virust 2x2 ghost cube. I know it's a small operation so I've been patient but enough is enough so I logged on to chase up the order and realised that I never actually paid for it. Feeling foolish.


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## h2f (Apr 25, 2016)

Jason Green said:


> That's about what my 5x5 times are.  although I had a low 5 min the other day, I'm improving at L2C so that helps a ton.



You will be 3 very soon.


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## Jason Green (Apr 26, 2016)

h2f said:


> You will be 3 very soon.


I hope so. 

Cube club went really well... I think, it was pretty hectic.  Today we just focused on the cross, so after a brief overview I spent the hour helping explain it to kids in small groups or one on one. I did take a moment to help one of the teachers so she could help kids better. The principal said afterwords the kids loved it so that's good. 

I just did one sample solve at the start so the kids thought that was cool I think.


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## earth2dan (Apr 26, 2016)

Jason Green said:


> I hope so.
> 
> Cube club went really well... I think, it was pretty hectic.  Today we just focused on the cross, so after a brief overview I spent the hour helping explain it to kids in small groups or one on one. I did take a moment to help one of the teachers so she could help kids better. The principal said afterwords the kids loved it so that's good.
> 
> I just did one sample solve at the start so the kids thought that was cool I think.


Very cool! I hope the program is a success.

I wish my kids were interested in cubing. They sometimes like to scramble puzzles for me, but they have zero interest in solving or learning to solve. We biked to the park the other day and I brought some cubes to practice; My girls were playing on the equipment while every other kid at the park gathered around me to play with cubes . One girl ran home and grabbed her Rubik's brand cube and insisted on showing me her method. I have a GuanLong with her name on it next time I see her at the park


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## Jason Green (Apr 26, 2016)

Yeah, my son was probably the least interested one. I asked him after if he worked on his white cross and he said no. One of his classmates made it mostly on his own, so maybe that will interest him. He still said it was fun. 

The four year old shows a little more interest but not quite able to teach him much yet. He was able to do R' D' R D a few times to put in a 2x2 corner the other day.


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## h2f (Apr 26, 2016)

I was awake at around 5 a.m (I used to wake up at 6.30 am). But it's enough to make 5 solves of 6x6 and it's almost 6 am.


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## muchacho (Apr 26, 2016)

@Jason Great that it went well, how many kids? What ages?


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## Jason Green (Apr 26, 2016)

muchacho said:


> @Jason Great that it went well, how many kids? What ages?


There were 57 signed up. I did not count today but that's about right. Kinder to 4th grade. The biggest number of them are second grade so 7 or 8 years old.


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## mark49152 (Apr 26, 2016)

Jason Green said:


> There were 57 signed up. I did not count today but that's about right. Kinder to 4th grade. The biggest number of them are second grade so 7 or 8 years old.


Wow that is a lot of kids to deal with in one group!


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## muchacho (Apr 26, 2016)

Wow, seems way too many, how many adults? any of the older kids already know how to cube and can teach some of the others?


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## Jason Green (Apr 26, 2016)

muchacho said:


> Wow, seems way too many, how many adults? any of the older kids already know how to cube and can teach some of the others?


It was pretty chaotic, but fun. There were 4 adults today, will probably have more next week. They all got sheets to take home too so they can practice. No one else could cube.


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## mafergut (Apr 26, 2016)

Wow! More than 50 kids! That's success  Congratulations!


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## Shaky Hands (Apr 26, 2016)

Great work Jason. You never know, you may be in the process of training up the next World Record holder! 

My work gives me a free day each year to use for help in the local community. I might offer to do something similar sometime, maybe tie in a cubing activity with doing mock job interviews at a local school, something like that.


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## Jason Green (Apr 26, 2016)

Shaky Hands said:


> Great work Jason. You never know, you may be in the process of training up the next World Record holder!


Yeah that was what I told the principal when we were first thinking about it.


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## h2f (Apr 26, 2016)

Pb with Roux by 0.04 - 18.49. No scramble because it was miscramble but decent - 5-6 moves fb, 12-15 sb and 2-look cmll, lse etc.


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## mafergut (Apr 26, 2016)

@h2f: Grzegorz, you are getting fast at both CFOP and Roux. Next, sub-20 at ZZ 
Congrats!


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## h2f (Apr 26, 2016)

He he. Thanks but im far a way from being sub20. My Times are around 28 and slower than yours. With full cmll i wasnt sub 25 in ao 50. I just try to enjoy solving right nów hoping it will help my cfop.

patataj patataj patataj


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## muchacho (Apr 26, 2016)

Nice PB Grzegorz, today I did a 7 moves FB once... but that was in the WC FMC attempt 

4x4 PBs
Single: 1:49.880 (was 2:02.449)
Ao5: 2:29.85 (was 2:30.04)
Ao12: 2:32.81 (was 2:35.99)

edit: haha a 4 move FB 5 solves later, I'll add reconstruction in a moment

edit2:
15094 26-abr-2016 19:39:47 00:17.935 U' B2 D B2 U' F2 D R2 D' F2 R2 B U B D' U2 L' F' D F2 L U
x2 z'
F' Uw M' F // that was easy even for me xD


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## h2f (Apr 26, 2016)

Nice fb, David. I didnt know how to figure it out till I saw your solution.


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## muchacho (Apr 26, 2016)

I was just going for the 2x2 block, I then searched for the other edge to start the solve but saw that it was easy to build the full block, FB in inspection is very rare for me, like once every 200 solves.


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## h2f (Apr 26, 2016)

Nice, second block took me 16 moves, next niklas and easy lse. But couldnt reconstruct it.


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## Jason Green (Apr 27, 2016)

@Logiqx my latest comp is finally on the WCA site, if you get a chance to run the old timer script sometime.


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## Jason Green (Apr 27, 2016)

I just ordered a CB G4 and Bochuang 5x5 both stickerless. Even did rush and expedited shipping for an extra $6 total from the cubicle.  I think I'm pretty tame compared to some of y'all, I guess being a tight wad helps. Haha


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## earth2dan (Apr 27, 2016)

Jason Green said:


> I just ordered a CB G4 and Bochuang 5x5 both stickerless. Even did rush and expedited shipping for an extra $6 total from the cubicle.  I think I'm pretty tame compared to some of y'all, I guess being a tight wad helps. Haha


Whoa nice! I recently ordered a load of stickerless cubes, including a G4. Though I ordered from Cubezz and took the free shipping because I'm a cheapo. I even created a spreadsheet comparing prices accross 5 different stores to see what was the most cost effective way to get all the puzzles I wanted  and now I wait...

Stickerless BoChuang is nice, I'm sure you'll be happy with it. Though I'm still torn between it and my Stickerless Yuxin and stickered BoChuang (which has been lubed and tensioned nicely)


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## Jason Green (Apr 27, 2016)

I watched a few comparisons of the Yuxin and Bochuang. The biggest thing I chose it for was people said the inner layers on the Yuxin felt different than the outer layers, that was a common theme. I ordered the cubes for school from cubezz free shipping, and even though they came in a few weeks not having tracking just about killed me.


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## h2f (Apr 27, 2016)

I've ordered stickerless skewb. It may come tomorrowe. In 6x6 I rolled my times to sub 7. I use Hoya method.


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## muchacho (Apr 27, 2016)

A Qiyi skewb? I have one and I think it's a bit better than my Moyu (although than stickerless green color is not good for my eyes). Which one were you using?


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## h2f (Apr 27, 2016)

I use black from Moyu and my son has primary - he put out springs and for me it's harder to control it. And yes - Qiyi. I wonder how it turns. I won a bonus bon on last comp and had to pay only half of the price. I live around 100 km from the shop and I can got it tomorrow with normal shipping.


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## muchacho (Apr 27, 2016)

I cut down (just a bit) the springs of the Moyu, but I'm not sure if it made any difference.


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## h2f (Apr 27, 2016)

I like clicking sound when you turn skewb. Intresting idea of cuttins springs.


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## muchacho (Apr 27, 2016)

A video from cubeologist with the spring mod (starts at 7:42):


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## h2f (Apr 27, 2016)

Thank you, David.


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## Logiqx (Apr 27, 2016)

Jason Green said:


> There were 57 signed up. I did not count today but that's about right. Kinder to 4th grade. The biggest number of them are second grade so 7 or 8 years old.



Perhaps you should give them each a different badge / pin with an OLL printed on it. 



Jason Green said:


> @Logiqx my latest comp is finally on the WCA site, if you get a chance to run the old timer script sometime.



I might wait until next week so the updates also includes the London competition. I presume you can wait a few days.


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## Jason Green (Apr 27, 2016)

Logiqx said:


> Perhaps you should give them each a different badge / pin with an OLL printed on it.
> 
> 
> 
> I might wait until next week so the updates also includes the London competition. I presume you can wait a few days.



That's an awesome idea, I can't believe I overlooked the number! Of course I don't think we'll be doing full OLL anytime too soon.  That reminds me another shirt idea I had was some play on Heinz 57 varieties. 

I can wait a few days. I remember how anxious I was to first be included in that list! Just a little improvement now though so no biggie.


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## Shaky Hands (Apr 27, 2016)

New 3x3 PB for me today of 18.48 (previous was 19.08... I haven't had a sub-20 in over a month.) No idea how this happened; nothing skipped and it seemed a fairly standard solve finishing in a J-perm during a crappy average. Gives me some (false?) hope for the London comp though.

Reconstruction...
Scramble: L R' U' R' U2 L B L2 F2 B D2 L D R B U R F' R' F' R2 D' R2 D' R2

Solution:


Spoiler



x2 y2 // inspection
R B2 R U B L F' L2 // cross
U2 F B' U2 B F' // F2L pair 1
d' L U2 L2 U' L // F2L pair 2
d2 R U2 R' U2 F' U F // F2L pair 3
y2 R U R' d2 L U' L' U L U L' // F2L pair 4
y2 R2 D R' U2 R D' R' U2 R' // OLL headlights
U2 R' U L' U2 R U' R' U2 R L U' // Ja-Perm

https://alg.cubing.net/?setup=L_R-_...2_R-_U_L-_U2_R_U-_R-_U2_R_L_U-_//_Ja&#45;Perm



I also got PB's in 6x6 and 7x7 in the WC although I'm sure I can smash those further with a bit more practice and better hardware.


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## muchacho (Apr 27, 2016)

Congrats, and no skips, nice tps!

_
New 4x4 ao5 PB: 2:19.681 (was 2:29.852)_


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## MarcelP (Apr 28, 2016)

Shaky Hands said:


> New 3x3 PB for me today of 18.48 (previous was 19.08... I haven't had a sub-20 in over a month.) No idea how this happened; nothing skipped and it seemed a fairly standard solve finishing in a J-perm during a crappy average. Gives me some (false?) hope for the London comp though.
> 
> Reconstruction...
> Scramble: L R' U' R' U2 L B L2 F2 B D2 L D R B U R F' R' F' R2 D' R2 D' R2
> ...


Nice!! I figured you did go for the free pair in inspection because you did x2 y2. But you did not.. You broke the pair.. Ouuuch. LOL, But I have to admit, a fast and short cross beats any complicated x-cross. Also, the d2 in the 3rd and 4th pair are wicket! Nice skills there. But since you did an y2 at the beginning of 4th F2L you could just have taken the pair out, brake them apart and slot them in less moves. I think you could be way faster if you where a tad bit more efficient. (My problem too). Good job none the less!


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## MarcelP (Apr 28, 2016)

h2f said:


> . With full cmll i wasnt sub 25 in ao 50. I just try to enjoy solving right nów hoping it will help my cfop.


I have decided once I am officially sub 19 I will start doing Roux again. I think I will never become faster than CFOP but I enjoy it a lot. I think you are doing right by practicing Roux besides CFOP.


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## muchacho (Apr 28, 2016)

Nice!

Does practicing Roux helps with your CFOP skills or is it only for the change/fun?


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## MarcelP (Apr 28, 2016)

muchacho said:


> Nice!
> 
> Does practicing Roux helps with your CFOP skills or is it only for the change/fun?


When I was averaging 20 - 23 secs CFOP I took a 3 months break doing only Roux. I became sub 30 with Roux. Then being dissapointed I was not even close to my CFOP times I went back to CFOP and was almost immediately sub 20 then. I would say it helped me a lot.


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## DeeDubb (Apr 28, 2016)

MarcelP said:


> When I was averaging 20 - 23 secs CFOP I took a 3 months break doing only Roux. I became sub 30 with Roux. Then being dissapointed I was not even close to my CFOP times I went back to CFOP and was almost immediately sub 20 then. I would say it helped me a lot.



I think focusing on BLD has actually helped my Roux times somehow. I think it's good to just practice with the cube, and a new method can spice things up to keep you motivated and focused. My PBs at last comp were really out of no where.


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## h2f (Apr 28, 2016)

MarcelP said:


> I think you are doing right by practicing Roux besides CFOP.



I think the same way. After doing only roux in last week I did ao5 for last WC without warmup and it was 20.7 which is quite decent for me. And vice versa - after 9 months break from Roux I've found doing fb and being x2/y neutral quite easy though earlier it was much harder for me.


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## mark49152 (Apr 28, 2016)

MarcelP said:


> I think you could be way faster if you where a tad bit more efficient.


Move efficiency looked OK, but I think reducing y2 rotations would be an easy improvement, including those d2s, which are kind of like rotations in that you still need a sort of regrip.

Example: on fourth pair you do a y2 to take the stuck pair out of FR, then a d2 before inserting it - but you could just take the pair out of BL and insert it with no rotations at all.

A good aim for F2L is to have no more than one or two y/y' rotations in total, and never any y2s.

For first pair I would have done U2 L' U L2 U' L' and avoid the more awkward F/B moves. 

For LL there's no need to rotate at all because you can just use U moves to align the top layer.


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## mafergut (Apr 28, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> A good aim for F2L is to have no more than one or two y/y' rotations in total, and never any y2s.
> For LL there's no need to rotate at all because you can just use U moves to align the top layer.



Completely agree. I'm myself trying to improve on that as well. The few reconstructions I have posted here have been good examples of my need to improve and you guys have pointed out very nice improvements in F2L to avoid rotations that I'm trying to incorporate in my solving. Yesterday in my 1h train commute I had some cases that reminded me of your good advice but in timed solves I still tend to revert to old, bad habits so slow solving is what I need now.

Regarding LL I agree... to a point. If I have a PLL that ends in an AUF (like my J perm which is a T perm conjugate) or both my R perms then, definitely a pre-AUF + PLL is better because you can cancel the post-AUF with the PLL. Also, in most cases, if you are going to need an AUF anyway it's probably better to not rotate but in cases where you have an already correctly AUFed PLL with does not end in U/U' or, even worse, that has some rotation that makes post-AUF awkward, then a y/y' or even a y2 rotation + PLL is better than pre-AUF + PLL + post-AUF.


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## Logiqx (Apr 28, 2016)

Whilst talking about saving rotations, I found a nice way to solve a stripy pair from FR to BR:

U (R' F R F') (R' U' R)

It feels much quicker than double-[inverse] sexy, rotate, insert. It's my alg of the week.


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## Selkie (Apr 28, 2016)

@Jason Green, Great news about the cube club, seems to have been a great success from the start! 

@Shaky Hands , great single there mate 

Great to see so many people ordering stickerless. I have to confess I love them.

@ London Open - Still trying to arrange transport for the weekend with my VW bus still off the road and a possibility I will only be there for the Sunday but will keep you posted.


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## mark49152 (Apr 28, 2016)

@mafergut: Yes I agree it's about developing good habits, which is easier to do without the time pressure. I think it's important to learn to solve at all four slots without favour. That really helps avoid rotations. Also, where you have a case that requires extracting one or more pieces from a slot, learn to adapt the case to extract from one slot and solve to another, for any two slots. That to me is the biggest argument for learning F2L intuitively. If you treat F2L solutions as algs and memorise by muscle memory rather than understanding, it's so much harder to mirror and adapt them.

Also, as @Logiqx illustrates with his alg of the week, it's useful to know different solutions for different open or target slots, especially where that gives you alternatives that do and don't flip the edge. For example let's look again at the first pair from @Shaky Hands reconstruction above. Forming the pair with U2 L' U L leaves it ready to insert to BL, or with an extra U2, to FR. But what if that pair is destined for FL or BR? Do we rotate? Well we could, but I would prefer to just form the pair with U' L F' L' F instead of U2 L' U L.


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## SenorJuan (Apr 28, 2016)

I agree, learning 'intutive F2L' properly is well worth doing. I started by learning the algorithms, just for the one slot, but came to the conclusion they were most inadequate, and needed supplementing with some more basic moves. So I gave up on algorithmic, and worked out all the sub-algorithms I would likely need in order to solve 'intuitively' (a bit of a misnomer, I think). There's a surprisingly large number of them, something like 160. I don't use all of them, particulary the 'sledgehammer' based ones, as they're not too good for OH solving. The only sledgehammer moves I normally use are for the cases like the one Mike Logiqx mentioned a few posts earlier, where they are the *only* simple way of making the pair.
Understanding 'intuitive' solving also helps make use of empty slots properly, either for move-saving, or eliminating cube-rotations.
Then there's quite a few other techniques, like keyhole (for corners or edges), and some trick algorithms.


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## Selkie (Apr 28, 2016)

Another huge vote for intuitive here. I learnt intuitive from Badmephisto's videos and much later replaced some bad cases with learnt algorithms. There are many benefits to learning intuitive. Many have already been mentioned but a big one for me is the fact that if you are solving FR slot with a difficult case and BR is not solved, changes there is a faster option. I frequently use empty slots to help bad cases. There have been two sets of algorithms I have wanted to create for a while. Yes I know saying algorithm sets is an oxymoron in this case but:-

FR cases where BR is open
R'FRF' allternaties for all cases that require a rotation or F moves
Really must get working on some of these cubing projects


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## SenorJuan (Apr 28, 2016)

I could probably save you the bother Chris, I've worked em all out, it was about 12 yrs ago, so my old notes are kind of scruffy, no desktop publishing here, a biro and some 'colouring in' with pencil. Several pages of them.


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## muchacho (Apr 28, 2016)

So just yesterday I was looking for ways to insert the last pair to try to affect edges/corners (I'm far far away from being able to use any of that on a speed solve but I thought I might try in slow solves or FMC), maybe you guys can help me there. So for a R' F R F' setup I can do U' F' U F or U2 F' U2 F (or Rw U Rw' with Roux), any more I may try?

---

Best times after 30 solves trying a new color scheme (on a stickerless cube):
Single: 19.502
Ao5: 24.406
Ao12: 27.765

I think it's good enough, and at least on the Weilong and Thunderclap the colors are almost the same.

---

4x4 ao5 PB: 2:16.316


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## SenorJuan (Apr 28, 2016)

There's
U' F' L' U L F
U' R B U B' R'
U' F R' F' R2 U' R'
U' M' F' U F M
for starters


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## muchacho (Apr 28, 2016)

That looks more than a start, thanks!


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## Selkie (Apr 28, 2016)

@SenorJuan - I would be very interested in seeing those if you ever get the opportunity of scanning them

@muchacho - I now know winter variation but that is for corners on last slot, havent incorporated them into my speed solves yet though.

--------

A couple of dodecahedron solves on film today. Firstly was trying to get a sub 2:50 ao5 of megaminx on film. Failed miserably but did get this PB on film which beat my last PB by over 5 seconds. Lost a lot of time as well trying to figure Y-perm would leave me a 3 corner PLL!






Also a 25.x minute gigaminx solve at 2x speed


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## SenorJuan (Apr 28, 2016)

OK, Chris, I'll see what I can do.

Senor Muchacho, here's a few more FMC type insertions
U2 F R' F' R F' U2 F
U2 R' F R F' F' U2 F
U' F' U' F U then proceed as before
U2 F' U F then proceed as before


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## Jason Green (Apr 28, 2016)

@SenorJuan I thought it was interesting you said intuitive was a bit of a misnomer. To me that's exactly what it was. I would just think about what I need to do and "intuitively" put the pieces together. 

... Or so I thought until I just looked up the definition of intuitive. Now I agree it's a misnomer.  By definition it means without reasoning. I was thinking of it more as without teaching. Which is mentioned in the definition further down.


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## mark49152 (Apr 28, 2016)

Jason Green said:


> I just looked up the definition of intuitive. Now I agree it's a misnomer.  By definition it means without reasoning. I was thinking of it more as without teaching. Which is mentioned in the definition further down.


I agree it's a misnomer. What I think it means in the context of cubing is "figuring it out for yourself". That doesn't necessarily mean doing so with no inputs though. Finding a cool F2L trick online and then studying it to understand how it works and maybe adapting it to different cases also qualifies IMHO.


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## h2f (Apr 28, 2016)

Going back to stickerless cubes - my MFG skewb will come tomorrow. I wonder if I shall do unboxing - I've never done it before.


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## mafergut (Apr 28, 2016)

h2f said:


> Going back to stickerless cubes - my MFG skewb will come tomorrow. I wonder if I shall do unboxing - I've never done it before.


Please... Do... It... I don't know when but I'll do a deferred unboxing of my CB G4, BoChuang, Aofu GT and Dayan Mega. Probably when I get my next order. I got un YuQiLin keyring/mini 3x3 and a YJ Axis 3x3 shapemod. I'm waiting for the WeiPo to be available to get one and a Wittwo Type C v1 2x2 and maybe also a Yuxin 5x5 stickerless  If you like your stickerless QiYi Skewb I might get one as well. Skewb and SQ-1 are the only WCA puzzles I only have one of each (well, and the 7x7).


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## SenorJuan (Apr 28, 2016)

Re: the 'intuition'..I didn't want to be hampered with a limited repertoire of sub-algorithms from amateurish intuition, so went to the effort of working them all out by brute force, though I don't actively use them all, some get tried when doing FMC.
I've just looked at my notes:
24 ways of moving a corner up to the top layer to make a pair (typically 4 ways for each of the 6 combinations of edge & corner orientation), these all known for the diagonally opposite corner location, to remove/reduce cube rotations.
24 ways of moving an edge from the middle E layer up to the top layer to make a pair, again these are known in duplicate for the opposite edge position.
Plus the usual shuffles for when they're both on the top layer, though sometimes there are a few empty-slot tricks, like
F' U F2 R U2 R' F' and its' mirror
which is probably one of the ones Chris (Selkie) was talking about, empty adjacent slot.


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## Jason Green (Apr 28, 2016)

Sorry to be boring, but this talk about intuition and it's meaning is interesting to me. For me the intuitive stage meant without any input for how to pair the cases. I watched a video and learned the opposite color up, same color up, and already paired cases so I did not consider that intuitive. But once I knew that I had no more inputs for a while. Although I did use reasoning. Once I started looking up cool F2L tricks I did not consider it intuitive. 

At least in America we use that meaning for software being intuitive also. We say that meaning it's easy to figure out with no training, but not too imply no reasoning. At least not to me. It's more of an interest in language at this point.


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## Shaky Hands (Apr 28, 2016)

muchacho said:


> Congrats, and no skips, nice tps!
> 
> _New 4x4 ao5 PB: 2:19.681 (was 2:29.852)_



Thanks. Also, well done yourself. 



MarcelP said:


> Nice!! I figured you did go for the free pair in inspection because you did x2 y2. But you did not.. You broke the pair.. Ouuuch. LOL, But I have to admit, a fast and short cross beats any complicated x-cross. Also, the d2 in the 3rd and 4th pair are wicket! Nice skills there. But since you did an y2 at the beginning of 4th F2L you could just have taken the pair out, brake them apart and slot them in less moves. I think you could be way faster if you where a tad bit more efficient. (My problem too). Good job none the less!



Thanks Marcel. I'm not great at X-Cross, tends to be the result of accident when it happens. I'm working on it as well as all-over efficiency.



mark49152 said:


> Move efficiency looked OK, but I think reducing y2 rotations would be an easy improvement, including those d2s, which are kind of like rotations in that you still need a sort of regrip.
> 
> Example: on fourth pair you do a y2 to take the stuck pair out of FR, then a d2 before inserting it - but you could just take the pair out of BL and insert it with no rotations at all.
> 
> ...



Thanks Mark. I've done some solves since this and noticed how many d2's I do in solving. Will look to make some improvements here. With LL I tend to put the cube into a particular state before executing PLL (and sometimes OLL too) before performing an alg as it's a part of my pattern recognition, but yes, this is often unnecessary and I can make some improvements here too.



Selkie said:


> @Jason Green, Great news about the cube club, seems to have been a great success from the start!
> 
> @Shaky Hands , great single there mate
> 
> @ London Open - Still trying to arrange transport for the weekend with my VW bus still off the road and a possibility I will only be there for the Sunday but will keep you posted.



Thanks. Hope you can make the Saturday too, otherwise everyone will assume you've fallen out of love with 4x4 after missing it 2 comps in a row.


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## Lid (Apr 29, 2016)

Late night session .... 4x4 a12 PB, first with the CB: *1:03.482* (~2.5s better than last PB)
(57.213), (1:14.940[op]), 1:01.894[op], 1:02.742[p], 58.223, 1:01.083, 1:05.309[op], 1:01.311, 1:14.330[op], 58.933, 1:02.358, 1:08.640[o]

OH, a5 PB: *21.353*, minor improvment, (a12 ended at 23.98 (my 2nd sub24 a12))
19.445, (26.694), (18.859), 22.978, 21.635 ; both sub20 was fullstep.



Edit: Did some Sq-1 also, got another sub10!

12. 9.786 (4, 0) / (3, -3) / (-4, -4) / (-3, 0) / (-2, -2) / (-3, 0) / (0, -4) / (3, -3) / (-3, -3) / (6, 0)
/1,-3/-3,-3/ || CS+CO+EO (Kite/Kite) LOL 
2,-3/-3,0/3,3/0,-3/ || CP (JJ)
-2,0/3,0/-1,-1/-2,1/2,3 || EP (adj/adj)


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## h2f (Apr 29, 2016)

I use Hoya on 6x6 and it works pretty well for me: ao12 6:59.32. I'm closer to my best times I've made 2 years ago.


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## mafergut (Apr 29, 2016)

@Lid: Stefan, you're so fast. Tell me your secret. 4x4 is okay, Chris is also around those times and I can imagine myself getting close to there in some time with practice but... OH?!? 21.xx Ao5 and sub-20 full step??? I can't get my mind around that, at least at my age (46), you were a bit younger if I remember correctly but... anyway, it's really impressive. My fingers can't move that fast even if I threaten them 

Also, I couldn't resist, WeiPo, Wittwo v1... and yuxin 5x5 stickerless on their way to my doorstep. The Qiyi Skewb will wait until I have your feedback, Grzegorz @h2f


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## h2f (Apr 29, 2016)

@mafergut, David I'm just downloading unboxing. It'll take some time I have a slow internet connection in home but I like it. I'm doing ao100 right now to see how it works.






It's painfull feeling for me to hear my English. I have a little opportunity to speak English, writing is much easier for me. I havent filmed for a long time and in the first part I'm a little out of focus. I'll prepare a review soon. This is my first unboxing ever.

Edit: after almost 100 solves I rolled my times to sub-12. It's much better than Moyu but it needs to get used to - turns in different way. Fast but easy to controll.


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## MarcelP (Apr 29, 2016)

Ok, I had a great average on film (although times where all over the place). I am trying to work a bit on TPS.. Often it results in shitty times. But every now and then...



Spoiler



31. 15.56 F L2 R2 F' U2 F' L2 F' R2 B2 R2 U R2 F D L U L2 B2 U2 R2
32. *10.13* B2 F2 L2 D R2 B2 U' F2 U R2 D2 L' F L2 F2 R D U B R2 F
33. 19.60 B2 R B2 R2 D2 B2 R B2 R U2 F2 U' R' F' L2 B2 D2 U2 L2 U'
34. 15.58 D2 L2 R2 F2 U' L2 U L2 F2 U B2 R' B D' F' L D2 L2 D2 L U
35. 21.28 R2 D' F2 D L2 R2 U R2 D2 L2 D L' U' R' D F' D F L2 R2 D

B2 F2 L2 D R2 B2 U' F2 U R2 D2 L' F L2 F2 R D U B R2 F
y // inspection
L2 R U' R' U y' R' U' R // X-CROSS (10)
y U' L' U L //2ND (5)
y U' U' R U' U' R' y U R U2 R' U R U' R' //3RD (14)
y' U R U' U' R' U2 R U' U' R' U R U' R' //4TH (15)
U2 R U R' U' R' F R F' U //OLL (10) and I recognize the PLL skip since blocks are made on the two sided

53 moves in 10.13 = 5.2 TPS







https://alg.cubing.net/?setup=B2_F2_L2_D_R2_B2_U-_F2_U_R2_D2_L-_F_L2_F2_R_D_U_B_R2_F&alg=y_//_inspection L2_R_U-_R-_U_y-_R-_U-_R_//_X&#45;CROSS_(10) y_U-_L-_U_L_//2ND_(5) y_U-_U-_R_U-_U-_R-_y_U_R_U2_R-_U_R_U-_R-_//3RD__(14) y-_U_R_U-_U-_R-_U2_R_U-_U-_R-_U_R_U-_R-_//4TH__(15) U2_R_U_R-_U-_R-_F_R_F-_U_//OLL_(10)_and_I_recognize_the_PLL_skip_since_blocks_are_made_on_the_two_sided


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## h2f (Apr 29, 2016)

Wow. Almost 5 tps.


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## Selkie (Apr 29, 2016)

@Lid - Some awesome times there Stefan, the 4x4 is over 2 seconds better than my PB Ao12. The OH s just insane. I got down to sub 45 a few years ago but my left hand is just too old and it hurts to OH. Sub 25! That is insane. Also a loely Square 1 single

@h2f - A great unboxing Grzegorz and I think your English is very good as well. I must order a Qiyi stickerless Skewb 

@Marcel P - You are getting faster and with less pauses. Lovely single there. 

------

Gutted unable to make London Open this weekend but my VW bus is still off the road. Hope all attending have a great time


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## mark49152 (Apr 29, 2016)

Selkie said:


> Gutted unable to make London Open this weekend but my VW bus is still off the road. Hope all attending have a great time


Yeah that is a shame, sorry to hear that. We will miss you. Hopefully next comp.


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## mafergut (Apr 29, 2016)

@h2f: Grzegorz, so now I have to make a new order for the qiyi skewb  Do you recommend stickerless then? That Ao100 is great. It's been a long time since I last did a skewb Ao100 but you're like 3 seconds faster on average. Those 8 singles in the video seemed effortless, like if you weren't even trying to be fast.

@MarcelP: Wow, nice solves! That 10 was fantastic. My turning precision when I try to force TPS is quite bad but that's what happens, some locky solves and some fast ones. Lately I only seem to get the locky ones, even when I don't push too much. I hope there's nothing wrong with my eye-brain-hand coordination... other that I'm getting old, but I'm too young to be old already


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## newtonbase (Apr 29, 2016)

So who is definitely going to North London this weekend?


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## h2f (Apr 29, 2016)

@Selkie, @mafergut, Chris, Miguel - Thank you for kind words. I think it's definietly worth buying - I find it much better than Moyu. It's something between Moyu and SS. It's soft, fast, easy to control, needs much more effort to solve which is something I'm not used to. I did ao100 *11.89 *and it's better from my previous best by 1.34 second but I havent practiced for 2 months.

Edit: My notes says I've beaten my all pbs in skewb except the single. Wow.



Spoiler



Generated By csTimer on 2016-4-29
solves/total: 100/100

single
best: 4.38
worst: 22.30

mean of 3
current: 10.61 (σ = 2.89)
best: 7.83 (σ = 5.00)

avg of 5
current: 11.24 (σ = 2.43)
best: 9.20 (σ = 0.89)

avg of 12
current: 11.03 (σ = 1.58)
best: 10.56 (σ = 1.30)

avg of 50
current: 11.47 (σ = 1.94)
best: 11.39 (σ = 1.86)

avg of 100
current: 11.89 (σ = 2.26)
best: 11.89 (σ = 2.26)

Average: 11.89 (σ = 2.26)
Mean: 11.93


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## mark49152 (Apr 29, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> So who is definitely going to North London this weekend?


I am definitely getting in the car but I never assume better than 50/50 until more than half way


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## h2f (Apr 29, 2016)

Good luck, Mark. How far do you have to drive to get to London?


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## mafergut (Apr 29, 2016)

h2f said:


> Edit: My notes says I've beaten my all pbs in skewb except the single. Wow.


 You've beaten the super-Ao5 I got the other day in the weekly comp of 9.23  The other averages simply destroy my PBs. I've checked prices at my usual web stores but, shouldn't I at least wait until some of my other orders arrive before making another one?


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## h2f (Apr 29, 2016)

mafergut said:


> You've beaten the super-Ao5 I got the other day in the weekly comp of 9.23  The other averages simply destroy my PBs. I've checked prices at my usual web stores but, shouldn't I at least wait until some of my other orders arrive before making another one?



It's a rethorical question, I guess.  BTW 11.78 after 120 solves. I've started learning Zperm which I did with setup and triple sledge.


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## mafergut (Apr 29, 2016)

h2f said:


> It's a rethorical question, I guess.  BTW 11.78 after 120 solves. I've started learning Zperm which I did with setup and triple sledge.


Yeah, it was rethorical indeed. Can you share the Z-perm you've learned? I am using double U-perm right now. By the way, I saw you do an H-perm in the unboxing and it's the same I use. The problem is I don't know how to fingertrick it so it takes a lot of time.


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## mark49152 (Apr 29, 2016)

h2f said:


> Good luck, Mark. How far do you have to drive to get to London?


Thanks. It's about 4 hours, and I am half way, yay!


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## h2f (Apr 29, 2016)

mafergut said:


> Yeah, it was rethorical indeed. Can you share the Z-perm you've learned? I am using double U-perm right now. By the way, I saw you do an H-perm in the unboxing and it's the same I use. The problem is I don't know how to fingertrick it so it takes a lot of time.



Zperm I try is from here:http://meep.cubing.net/l5c.html

It goes like R L' U' L U L R L' R and I'm trying to fingertrick it. H perm I use is






It's arlo's. I cant find source movie but this one looks same. I'm very slow at both but I hope it will change soon.


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## newtonbase (Apr 29, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> Thanks. It's about 4 hours, and I am half way, yay!


Woo hoo. See you in the morning. I'll be there for 5x5.


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## h2f (Apr 29, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> Woo hoo. See you in the morning. I'll be there for 5x5.


Good luck.

patataj patataj patataj


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## muchacho (Apr 29, 2016)

Nice solves for a cube you hate so much Marcel, it can't be that bad!

Grzegorz, yeah for me it's better than my Moyu and shades are almost good enough for me, this Skewb was for a present but I think I'll get another stickerless and a black one.

My 3x3 times with the new color scheme (orange where the green is supposed to be, red instead of orange and black instead of red) are still like 4 seconds slower, but I'll keep trying, this stickerless cube looks too beautiful.


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## Jason Green (Apr 30, 2016)

My cubes came! That was almost as fast as Amazon! They are both great! The Bochuang is just amazing, my first solve I set a PB of 4:55. I could've got an official with that probably, even though the cutoff was 4:45 he let me go to about 5 mins. 

It's so smooth that I can do my normal algs without getting messed up from not having muscle memory! 

Edit: Now a 1:54 on the G4. Probably my third best ever on second solve! The colors are much better too, especially the Bochuang. I'm quite excited if you can't tell.


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## h2f (Apr 30, 2016)

muchacho said:


> Nice solves for a cube you hate so much Marcel, it can't be that bad!
> 
> Grzegorz, yeah for me it's better than my Moyu and shades are almost good enough for me, this Skewb was for a present but I think I'll get another stickerless and a black one.
> 
> My 3x3 times with the new color scheme (orange where the green is supposed to be, red instead of orange and black instead of red) are still like 4 seconds slower, but I'll keep trying, this stickerless cube looks too beatiful.



I would like to try the black one with my fluo stickers: in some kind of light theres a small difference between green a yellow for my eyes. I cant even imagine how you feel with your color blindness.

In 6x6 I got new pb 6:01.53. On cam but it had bad angle.


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## muchacho (Apr 30, 2016)

That yellow is good, so with good light it's not a big problem, if not I get confused also with the orange. The shades are almost good enough, but I would have to remove the green and add black if I wanted to use this cube for speed.

Good luck to those competing!


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## h2f (Apr 30, 2016)

I got similiar feeling - if green would be darker it would be perfect to me.
In 6x6 I've finally beaten my previous pbs in a mo3 ao5 ao12 by few seconds. I just could have nice pb in ao5 around 6:20 but messed on U perm with parity.


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## muchacho (Apr 30, 2016)

I think I read color blindness is less common in Asian people, maybe nobody in their factories see a problem with those colors


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## h2f (Apr 30, 2016)

It may simple and true explanation.


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## MarcelP (Apr 30, 2016)

muchacho said:


> Nice solves for a cube you hate so much Marcel, it can't be that bad!



Yeah, slow solving that cube feels nice. But once you start doing timed averages it locks like crazy, and flexes too much. I really hate it . But I enjoy solving different cubes all the time.


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## h2f (Apr 30, 2016)

Funny how big cubes pay off - I got 2:44.xx on 5x5 (pb), pb on 6x6 and 58.59 on 4x4 (slower than pb). But on 4x4 it was very lucky solve - I've made 3 wings of cross after centers and pairing was very short. No parity included.


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## Berd (Apr 30, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> Woo hoo. See you in the morning. I'll be there for 5x5.



Hopefully see both of you on the Sunday!


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## newtonbase (Apr 30, 2016)

Berd said:


> Hopefully see both of you on the Sunday!


Looking forward to it. Had a good day today, the highlight being my first official blind solve.


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## Berd (Apr 30, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> Looking forward to it. Had a good day today, the highlight being my first official blind solve.



That's amazing, I was about to congratulate you! MBLD tomorrow!


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## newtonbase (Apr 30, 2016)

Berd said:


> That's amazing, I was about to congratulate you! MBLD tomorrow!


Yes. I'm going for 3. Easy


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## Jason Green (Apr 30, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> Looking forward to it. Had a good day today, the highlight being my first official blind solve.


Congratulations!


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## mark49152 (Apr 30, 2016)

Congrats Mark and Andy on the 3BLD and other PBs today! And congrats Grzegorz too! 

I had a mixed day - missed soft cut on 5x5 which was disappointing because I've made it the last three comps. Messed up 2x2 as usual, despite doing 200 solves to warm up, but got a silly PB single. PB 4x4 average by half a second, but should have been better. Then finally, a 1:27.65 3BLD which I was really pleased with - that's 20 seconds knocked off my comp PB! Unfortunately my camera battery died just as I was about to take off the cover, so no video .

Nice comp, nice venue, nice company - looking forward to tomorrow. 

Now to prepare my MBLD cubes. I decided to make them a little tighter, but it takes a surprisingly long time to tension 19 cubes!


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## h2f (Apr 30, 2016)

Good news, Mark! Nice 3bld - pb by 20 seconds. And @newtonbase, Mark - congrats of first 3bld and other results.


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## newtonbase (Apr 30, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> Congrats Mark and Andy on the 3BLD and other PBs today! And congrats Grzegorz too!
> 
> I had a mixed day - missed soft cut on 5x5 which was disappointing because I've made it the last three comps. Messed up 2x2 as usual, despite doing 200 solves to warm up, but got a silly PB single. PB 4x4 average by half a second, but should have been better. Then finally, a 1:27.65 3BLD which I was really pleased with - that's 20 seconds knocked off my comp PB! Unfortunately my camera battery died just as I was about to take off the cover, so no video .
> 
> ...


Well, if we are doing full run throughs... 
I beat my 5x5 single twice in 2 solves but that was it as I'm nowhere near the cut. Scraped my sub 20s average target for pyraminx with a 17s single which were both PBs. I don't plan on doing pyraminx again. Got a 2x2 average of 13s which was another PB but still not what I'd hoped as I make too many mistakes. Speaking of mistakes, I thought I had a PB in 4x4 but had missed the edge swap parity so DNF and then missed my PB by 1s in the 2nd solve. I'll get the cut one day. Then came 3BLD. I was pretty nervous going in. The first scramble was a dream but I think I completely missed an edge cycle during memo so got a sub 3 DNF. Solve 2 was harder and I wasn't at all confident but there it was, solved. 3 felt good too but I think I recalled the wrong filthy word so corners were a mess but who cares. I've finally joined the blind club. 
Looking forward to tomorrow,especially my first multi attempt.


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## Jason Green (May 1, 2016)

More PBs on my new big cubes. 4x4 1:34 and 5x5 4:16.  

Congrats on the comp successes. @newtonbase cool on blind success! Gonna learn it over day I hope.


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## mafergut (May 1, 2016)

Congrats guys!!!!

Sent from my Nexus 4 with Tapatalk


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## newtonbase (May 1, 2016)

Got a sub 30s average out of the blue! My AO12 in warm up was nearly 34s. My target was sub 35s average and sub 30s single. Also 1/3 in multi which I'm happy with. The other 2 cubes weren't disasters. This has been an excellent competition.


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## h2f (May 1, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> Got a sub 30s average out of the blue! My AO12 in warm up was nearly 34s. My target was sub 35s average and sub 30s single. Also 1/3 in multi which I'm happy with. The other 2 cubes weren't disasters. This has been an excellent competition.



Congrats, Mark!


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## Logiqx (May 1, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> Got a sub 30s average out of the blue! My AO12 in warm up was nearly 34s. My target was sub 35s average and sub 30s single. Also 1/3 in multi which I'm happy with. The other 2 cubes weren't disasters. This has been an excellent competition.



Congrats. I just checked CubeComps and saw your results. Sub-30 average... very nice!

I also saw that Mark had two sub-20 averages with really consistent times, apart from the last solves of each round. GJ!


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## mark49152 (May 1, 2016)

Logiqx said:


> I also saw that Mark had two sub-20 averages with really consistent times, apart from the last solves of each round. GJ!


 Yeah that's my tactic. Go in fairly relaxed and when I see I'm on for a good average, get nervous and ruin it. Did the same in 4x4. But at least they are PBs. 

MBLD was of course my main event and that wasn't too good. On the 6th or 7th cube I realized that I had not fixed parity on any of the previous solves that had it. And, I had cast aside the cubes without keeping them in formation so couldnt fix it. What a stupid, basic error. Otherwise, my result would have been 6/8. I think the reason was that I use visual rather than audio for edges in MBLD and am just not used to it. It's a good argument for doing at least a little MBLD practice, enough to get used to whatever system is being used.


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## newtonbase (May 1, 2016)

God knows what I was looking at when I thought I was aiming to beat 2:06 in 4x4. Old PB was actually 2:15 so I beat it by 8s.


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## Jason Green (May 1, 2016)

Hey all, I put up a compilation from the KC Comp a couple weeks ago.


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## newtonbase (May 1, 2016)

Excellent video. That venue looked massive.


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## Jason Green (May 1, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> Excellent video. That venue looked massive.


Thanks it was a rather huge church!


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## Shaky Hands (May 1, 2016)

A few reminiscences from the weekend comp.

First off, good venue. Really well-run 2-day comp with a good selection of events.

I made a few competition PB's:
Saturday
- 2x2 average - was 12.86, now 12.11 - I don't practice 2x2, don't know Ortega or anything, not really fussed in any way on this, it's just an event I may as well compete in. I thought I'd got a PB in 2x2 single too but I misread my WCA profile.
- 5x5 single - was 5:10.02, now 4:03.15 - big improvement, practice is paying off, hopefully I can keep chipping away at those times.
Sunday
- 3x3 single - minor improvement from 26.74 to 26.68, I can do better
- 3x3 average - better improvement from 32.91 to 29.84. Again, I can do better but it's good to have the official sub-30 average that I thought I could get at the Exeter comp.
- Clock single - good improvement from 33.84 to 19.32.
- Clock average - didn't have an average before, now it's 22.49. And no DNF's!

I might retire from Clock now I have an average in it, but I find it quite entertaining and it's not something I need to practice for more than 5 minutes or so on the day of a competition.

Also competed in 4x4, but first solve was 12s over my comp PB and the second was a DNF after I screwed up an adjacent parity swap into something so weird I showed it to others so they could have a chuckle. 

One thing I do find with comps is the repeated find-somewhere-to-solve, do-a-solve, wait & repeat process takes me somewhat "out of the zone" with solving the shorter events in comparison to spending longer periods of time doing back-to-back solving at home. (Clock is probably different as the lower number of competitors meant I could just sit down and wait for the judge to find me.) Not sure what the solution is to this other than more competition practice. I might need to volunteer less with judging during periods right before I'm about to compete in events I care about so I can warm up more.

Really hoping to see 6x6 at the next UK competition. I'm a long way from the average cut (see also: 4x4 and 5x5!) but have had solves within the 6x6 hard cut now, so I know I have a shot at recording an official time in that. And overall, I really like 6x6 as a puzzle.

Great to see Mark and Mark again. I got to judge some of their solves too. Think I brought them the occasional piece of good fortune, but the skill's all theirs. 

Cheers.


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## MarcelP (May 2, 2016)

Jason Green said:


> Hey all, I put up a compilation from the KC Comp a couple weeks ago.


Looks like an awesome competition!


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## newtonbase (May 2, 2016)

Shaky Hands said:


> Think I brought them the occasional piece of good fortune


It always helps to have a friendly face at the table. You must have done more judging than anyone. 

Results are on the WCA. Mark is 12th in UK for 3BLD.


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## mark49152 (May 2, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> It always helps to have a friendly face at the table. You must have done more judging than anyone.
> 
> Results are on the WCA. Mark is 12th in UK for 3BLD.


Yeah definitely, a friendly judge helps to dispel the nerves a bit. 

12th is cool, representing the elderly 

Not sure what my focus speed events will be for next comp. Maybe 4x4 again. Definitely either MBLD or 4BLD though, whichever is held.


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## Logiqx (May 2, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> It always helps to have a friendly face at the table. You must have done more judging than anyone.
> 
> Results are on the WCA. Mark is 12th in UK for 3BLD.



I've tried to update the over-40 rankings but it's too big for the new forum.

The content is >4 times larger than the 25,000 character limit. I've asked if the limit can be increased.


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## mark49152 (May 2, 2016)

How's this for consistent improvement: every official average Mark and Andy have ever posted has been a PB - with only one exception, Mark's pyra at Manchester. Keep it going, guys


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## newtonbase (May 2, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> How's this for consistent improvement: every official average Mark and Andy have ever posted has been a PB - with only one exception, Mark's pyra at Manchester. Keep it going, guys


I hadn't realised that. Go oldies and boo hiss to pyraminx.


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## Jason Green (May 2, 2016)

Shaky Hands said:


> I might need to volunteer less with judging during periods right before I'm about to compete in events I care about so I can warm up more.


I know I take a while to warm up, so at comps I spend a ton of time practicing. Until the last comp it was about all I did. At this one I actually judged for the first time and walked around a bit more than before. But yeah I'd be lost without lots of warm up (especially 3x3). 

Mike, if needed could you post the results on another page and link to it? I'd be happy to put it on my blog if needed. I know you shared the scripts a while back but I'm not sure I could find it now. If you want to share again I could probably run it myself.


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## mafergut (May 2, 2016)

Up to date with the thread after a couple days off (but following you on Tapatalk from time to time). Congrats to everyone for the comp PBs and @Jason Green, very nice video. I envy you because Chris Olson judged your solve!!!!


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## Jason Green (May 2, 2016)

mafergut said:


> Up to date with the thread after a couple days off (but following you on Tapatalk from time to time). Congrats to everyone for the comp PBs and @Jason Green, very nice video. I envy you because Chris Olson judged your solve!!!!


It was cool. I got to judge him too.


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## Selkie (May 2, 2016)

@newtonbase , @mark49152 , @Shaky Hands - Congratulations on the results Mark, Mark and Andy. Some great PBs in there. So disappointed to have missed the comp but hopefully next one. The disappointment has even driven me to start the process of changing my vehicle.

@Jason Green Great video sir as already said elsewhere. Loved the format 

Couple of PBs today whilst cooking a family roast....

7x7 - 5:58.358 - First ever sub UK mean cut solve. Really pleased with this one and going to be working hard to get down to average cut globally

Gigaminx - 22:07.60 - Really enjoying this puzzle and doing a solve a day at the moment.


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## h2f (May 2, 2016)

Yes, again congrats to all @newtonbase, @mark49152 and @Shaky Hands.

I got also some pbs but slower than your Chris in 7x7. I got ao5 6:28 adn ao12 6:40 in 6x6. I like the puzzle. I do practice only this and skewb - my 3bld times are down. And I've finished remebering my cmlls. I think I'll stay with Roux for longer time. I do practice CFOP doing big cubes but in 3x3 Roux gives me so much fun that I dont want to stop it. Doing blocks and finding the shortest way of FB is so creative.

@Jason Green - nice vide. Next time I'm gonna make something like this - driving etc.


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## newtonbase (May 2, 2016)

I'm thinking of focusing on 4x4 and 3BLD for a while. I think soft cut is an achievable target for 4x4 but I would have to take 30% off my times. I'd also like to improve my 3BLD ranking as I was showing off to my 10 year old niece that I'm now top 40 in the country then realised that she knows someone in the top 30 so he's my target! 
My only concern is the affect that this might have on my 3x3. I've got a PB lower than my global average but I'm hoping that the other practice will help.


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## mark49152 (May 2, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> I'm thinking of focusing on 4x4 and 3BLD for a while. I think soft cut is an achievable target for 4x4 but I would have to take 30% off my times. I'd also like to improve my 3BLD ranking as I was showing off to my 10 year old niece that I'm now top 40 in the country then realised that she knows someone in the top 30 so he's my target!
> My only concern is the affect that this might have on my 3x3. I've got a PB lower than my global average but I'm hoping that the other practice will help.


Practising 4x4 definitely helps 3x3. I would hazard a guess that if you work on 4x4 until you are sub-1:30, you will find yourself miraculously low 20s on 3x3.


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## Jason Green (May 2, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> Practising 4x4 definitely helps 3x3. I would hazard a guess that if you work on 4x4 until you are sub-1:30, you will find yourself miraculously low 20s on 3x3.


I'm low 20s on 3x3, I wish I was miraculously 1:30 on 4x4


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## newtonbase (May 2, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> Practising 4x4 definitely helps 3x3. I would hazard a guess that if you work on 4x4 until you are sub-1:30, you will find yourself miraculously low 20s on 3x3.


That would be dandy. I think I'll learn a few more OLLs which will be good for both. I know less than half currently.


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## mark49152 (May 3, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> That would be dandy. I think I'll learn a few more OLLs which will be good for both. I know less than half currently.


No harm in that, although OLL parity will mess with half your solves. You could fix it randomly and apply full OLL, but I prefer to solve EO with OLL parity and reduce to an OCLL, so there's only half the benefit to knowing full OLL.

Have you measured your splits on 4x4 to see where your weaknesses are? For me, getting sub-1:30 was about finding centres/edges systems that worked for me then getting fairly fluid with them.


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## mark49152 (May 3, 2016)

Funny piece of trivia: if my 4/8 59.32 MBLD had been a PB, it would have put me right at the very bottom of the world rankings, 1128th, as the slowest ever 0 point PB.


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## h2f (May 3, 2016)

I got nice ao5 with Roux: 24.88. Luckily one look cmll though I have a problem with bowtie.


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## muchacho (May 3, 2016)

Nice, I see much potential there.


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## Logiqx (May 3, 2016)

Jason Green said:


> Mike, if needed could you post the results on another page and link to it? I'd be happy to put it on my blog if needed. I know you shared the scripts a while back but I'm not sure I could find it now. If you want to share again I could probably run it myself.



Hi Jason. I uploaded the Python scripts (one to download the DB and build indices, one to generate the rankings) to GitHub and the link is in the original post.

Click the ipynb files to view - https://github.com/Logiqx/wca-ipy

@Lid - I notice that you host some WCA reports on your cubing website. Would it be feasible to incorporate the over-40's script so that over-40 results are updated at the same time as your existing reports? I'm not sure if you've fully automated and have a server automatically updating your website?


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## h2f (May 3, 2016)

muchacho said:


> Nice, I see much potential there.


Thank you. I have the same feeling and I hope it come true. Something clicked in my mind and fb seems much easier to me than a year before. I need practice with cmlls and must work on transition from fb to second block.


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## mafergut (May 3, 2016)

h2f said:


> Thank you. I have the same feeling and I hope it come true. Something clicked in my mind and fb seems much easier to me than a year before. I need practice with cmlls and must work on transition from fb to second block.


Liked your Roux solving a lot. It seems relaxed but fluid. I agree with David that you have potential there. You are now quite decent with a 2nd method, which I think is a good skill to have. Makes me want to get back to Roux, where I never got to really decent times. But then I do the weekly comp 3x3 scrambles and I have one of the best strikes of good lookahead in some time and then I think that there's still potential for improvement in CFOP and I have my time already too spread among different events and I doubt again. The average was 16.58, (16.56), (17.75), 16.67, 16.64 = *16.64*. Nothing spectacular there but they were all full step solves. Probably best Ao5 without skips in like 6 months.


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## One Wheel (May 3, 2016)

This is a long thread, and I'm not going to try to read all of it, but I thought I'd say hi. I got my first cube a little over a year ago as a 28th birthday present. I realize that makes me younger than several of you on this thread, but I still feel like I'm old enough that my fingers are a little stiffer than they used to be, and learning algs maybe isn't as easy as it once would have been. I've really been enjoying 4x4 lately, and I've gotten a few averages under 2:10 with a pb single of 1:43.75. I run about 10-16 seconds on 2x2, 40 seconds on 3x3, 6 minutes on 5x5, and 9 minutes on Megaminx, very roughly. My long-term goal is to have averages that are average or above in the world rankings in all events, except possibly 2x2 which I don't care for much (too alg-heavy) and clock, which I have no interest in learning.

I bought the family dairy farm from my dad a couple of years ago, so right now I'm milking 38 Jersey cows twice a day, plus feeding calves, etc. The farm doesn't leave me a lot of free time, but it's nice to sit down after chores and do a couple of solves. I have 4 years of college working toward a BA in Government, but no degree. I can make a mean spreadsheet, but that's about the extent of my computer savvy. I have 9 younger siblings and two nephews, but nobody else at the farm with me right now.


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## mafergut (May 3, 2016)

@One Wheel: Welcome to this thread! Yeah, you are a bit young but we are glad you are here and share your cubing experience with all of us. Just one quick comment, if you don't want to learn a lot of algs for 2x2 you can get pretty decent times with Ortega which is just a dozen algs (half of which will be already known 3x3 OLLs). No need to go the extra mile and learn all 126 CLL + EG-1 + EG-2


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## h2f (May 3, 2016)

mafergut said:


> Liked your Roux solving a lot. It seems relaxed but fluid. I agree with David that you have potential there. You are now quite decent with a 2nd method, which I think is a good skill to have. Makes me want to get back to Roux, where I never got to really decent times. But then I do the weekly comp 3x3 scrambles and I have one of the best strikes of good lookahead in some time and then I think that there's still potential for improvement in CFOP and I have my time already too spread among different events and I doubt again. The average was 16.58, (16.56), (17.75), 16.67, 16.64 = *16.64*. Nothing spectacular there but they were all full step solves. Probably best Ao5 without skips in like 6 months.



Funny thing is that with CFOP I was dual color but mostly white on bottom. With Roux I'm half CN - I can do all colors with wihte on bottom and blue/green on yellow. Trying to do it with red/orange. I had a long break - since august or september I havent practice it for longer than few days. 

Your times with CFOP are amazing for me. Same like Chris or @Logiqx (sorry, forgot name), Marcel.


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## mark49152 (May 3, 2016)

@One Wheel , welcome to the thread.


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## mafergut (May 3, 2016)

h2f said:


> Funny thing is that with CFOP I was dual color but mostly white on bottom. With Roux I'm half CN - I can do all colors with wihte on bottom and blue/green on yellow. Trying to do it with red/orange. I had a long break - since august or september I havent practice it for longer than few days.
> 
> Your times with CFOP are amazing for me. Same like Chris or @Logiqx (sorry, forgot name), Marcel.



Thanks but that was just a good average. I'm globally more like mid 19 or so. Also it's nice that you can have that much freedom of colors with Roux. I'm now trying to become full CN at CFOP but still not there yet (this Ao5 was all white & yellow cross).


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## newtonbase (May 3, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> No harm in that, although OLL parity will mess with half your solves. You could fix it randomly and apply full OLL, but I prefer to solve EO with OLL parity and reduce to an OCLL, so there's only half the benefit to knowing full OLL.
> 
> Have you measured your splits on 4x4 to see where your weaknesses are? For me, getting sub-1:30 was about finding centres/edges systems that worked for me then getting fairly fluid with them.


I haven't timed splits but I've decided to focus on each stage in turn so will be looking at first two centres initially.


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## mafergut (May 3, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> No harm in that, although OLL parity will mess with half your solves. You could fix it randomly and apply full OLL, but I prefer to solve EO with OLL parity and reduce to an OCLL, so there's only half the benefit to knowing full OLL.
> 
> Have you measured your splits on 4x4 to see where your weaknesses are? For me, getting sub-1:30 was about finding centres/edges systems that worked for me then getting fairly fluid with them.


I just fully realized what you said in your post here... Right now I just do OLL parity on a flipped edge so that I get an OLL with at least two oriented edges, if I have 3 then I get a full cross, but that's it. When you say you prefer to solve EO with OLL parity do you mean you use another OLL parity alg to flip 3 adj edges instead of 1 so that you end up always with a full cross? If so, can you share the alg? You got me interested


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## Lid (May 3, 2016)

@Logiqx It's a half automated process, I run the scripts locally on my computer, then upload the results to the website.

@mafergut When I get a 3 flip on the 4x4 I do; B' R' [OLLparity] R B. After that I do COLL then EPLL.
I have pages for all PLL+parity & OLL+parity cases if you're intrested on my webpage (under the Misc tab).


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## mark49152 (May 3, 2016)

mafergut said:


> I just fully realized what you said in your post here... Right now I just do OLL parity on a flipped edge so that I get an OLL with at least two oriented edges, if I have 3 then I get a full cross, but that's it. When you say you prefer to solve EO with OLL parity do you mean you use another OLL parity alg to flip 3 adj edges instead of 1 so that you end up always with a full cross? If so, can you share the alg? You got me interested


The alg I use is Rw U2 Rw U2 Rw' U2 Rw U2 Lw U2 Rw U2 Rw' U2 x' Rw' U2 Rw'. It solves double parity, flipping the front dedge and swapping the left/right dedges.

When there is one good edge, position it on the right, and do B' R' to set up, then the same alg, and undo setup. The front dedge gets flipped as usual, and the left/right swap takes care of flipping the other two bad ones. That's why that setup doesn't work with some other parity algs, if they don't swap left/right.


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## muchacho (May 3, 2016)

Welcome @One Wheel 



h2f said:


> I got nice ao5 with Roux: 24.88. Luckily one look cmll though I have a problem with bowtie.


I've filmed some solves (some lucky ones, I'm averaging 26.x), they look so different that Grzegorz's :confused:


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## Shaky Hands (May 3, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> How's this for consistent improvement: every official average Mark and Andy have ever posted has been a PB - with only one exception, Mark's pyra at Manchester. Keep it going, guys



Great! Sadly as I go to more comps I have no chance of maintaining this record! 



mark49152 said:


> Funny piece of trivia: if my 4/8 59.32 MBLD had been a PB, it would have put me right at the very bottom of the world rankings, 1128th, as the slowest ever 0 point PB.



Cool  Am I right in thinking 1/2 in MBLD is now a DNF? How many cubes do you have to attempt to make 0 points a non-DNF MBLD?



Jason Green said:


> I know I take a while to warm up, so at comps I spend a ton of time practicing. Until the last comp it was about all I did. At this one I actually judged for the first time and walked around a bit more than before. But yeah I'd be lost without lots of warm up (especially 3x3).



Yep. I'm just going to go elsewhere and avoid people at times so I can get my warm-up done. I'm sociable enough the rest of the time.



Selkie said:


> @newtonbase , @mark49152 , @Shaky Hands - Congratulations on the results Mark, Mark and Andy. Some great PBs in there. So disappointed to have missed the comp but hopefully next one. The disappointment has even driven me to start the process of changing my vehicle.





h2f said:


> Yes, again congrats to all @newtonbase, @mark49152 and @Shaky Hands.



Thanks! And congrats to you both on your PB's too.



newtonbase said:


> I'm thinking of focusing on 4x4 and 3BLD for a while. I think soft cut is an achievable target for 4x4 but I would have to take 30% off my times. I'd also like to improve my 3BLD ranking as I was showing off to my 10 year old niece that I'm now top 40 in the country then realised that she knows someone in the top 30 so he's my target!
> My only concern is the affect that this might have on my 3x3. I've got a PB lower than my global average but I'm hoping that the other practice will help.



I'd say go for it. As Mark R has said, big cubes help with smaller cubes. In fact, my 4x4 times improved quite a bit by doing 5x5 solves.



h2f said:


> I got nice ao5 with Roux: 24.88. Luckily one look cmll though I have a problem with bowtie.



Nice video. I think of Roux as some form of bizarre wizardry. Did a couple of Roux solves last week but for the moment it's something I just play around with. My Roux times are certainly better than the hour or so that it took me to solve my first Square-1 yesterday.



One Wheel said:


> This is a long thread, and I'm not going to try to read all of it, but I thought I'd say hi. I got my first cube a little over a year ago as a 28th birthday present. I realize that makes me younger than several of you on this thread, but I still feel like I'm old enough that my fingers are a little stiffer than they used to be, and learning algs maybe isn't as easy as it once would have been. I've really been enjoying 4x4 lately, and I've gotten a few averages under 2:10 with a pb single of 1:43.75. I run about 10-16 seconds on 2x2, 40 seconds on 3x3, 6 minutes on 5x5, and 9 minutes on Megaminx, very roughly. My long-term goal is to have averages that are average or above in the world rankings in all events, except possibly 2x2 which I don't care for much (too alg-heavy) and clock, which I have no interest in learning.



Welcome to the thread One Wheel. I've no idea with Megaminx but I think all your goals are realistic and often a bit of extra learning can lead to a considerable reduction in average times. I've seen you on the various forum competition threads, so keep up the practice and good luck with the farm!


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## One Wheel (May 3, 2016)

mafergut said:


> @One Wheel:Just one quick comment, if you don't want to learn a lot of algs for 2x2 you can get pretty decent times with Ortega which is just a dozen algs (half of which will be already known 3x3 OLLs). No need to go the extra mile and learn all 126 CLL + EG-1 + EG-2



I'm using Ortega. What I meant by alg heavy is not that there are so many algs to learn, although I realize that I could. What I meant is that the only logical part of solving 2x2 is orienting the first layer, and then it's just recognition and execution, which get boring fast.


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## mark49152 (May 3, 2016)

Shaky Hands said:


> Am I right in thinking 1/2 in MBLD is now a DNF? How many cubes do you have to attempt to make 0 points a non-DNF MBLD?


You have to solve at least 2, and get 0 points when successes = failures, so minimum is 2/4.


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## mafergut (May 3, 2016)

@Lid & @mark49152: Thanks for your suggestions on OLL parity. The alg I use in fact swaps the left & right dedges so I can use the setup you mention to do a 3-flip, thanks! No more doing OLL parity to discover I have to do 2L OLL because I can't perform the resulting OLL in big cubes due to muscle memory issues (it's becoming better but I'm still not full OLL in 4x4 and bigger cubes).

@muchacho: David, nice solves. You are right that your Roux style looks different to @h2f Grzegorz's but not sure why as I can't really discern the different steps in your solves (I'm not good a Roux, you know). Like I think you were already doing L6E and then you perform something that is not just MU like if it was the CMLL.

@One Wheel: Now I get you, so you find it boring because it relies too much on algs and not in intuitive solving and lookahead... well, yeah, 2x2 is a completely different thing to bigger cubes or Megaminx. In that sense it is similar to Pyraminx. The only way to be really fast is by onelooking the solve, which means zero lookahead involved. With Ortega, 1-looking is almost impossible for most of the solves so there's still the intuition coming into play to recognize as soon as possible the OLL, then the PBL and the AUF but, I agree, it is much more automatic than other puzzles. I found it boring like you at the beginning but then I started to try and improve little bits here and there in the things I mentioned (OLL prediction, etc.) and it has the good thing that I don't need 20 minutes to just do a solve, like with 7x7. In 20 minutes I can do a bunch of them  I at times feel frustrated when I had half an hour and I "waste" it in just 5 bad 5x5 solves. So, one thing for the other, I ended up liking 2x2, but I still prefer 3x3, 4x4 or Mega, for example.


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## muchacho (May 3, 2016)

In 2-look CMLL, after CO but before CP, I put the LU/RU edges in the bottom (so that they will be inserted later with an M2), probably not the best way, but I got used to do it like that, it'll remain that way until I learn full CMLL.


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## mafergut (May 3, 2016)

muchacho said:


> In 2-look CMLL, after CO but before CP, I put the LU/RU edges in the bottom (so they will be inserted later with an M2), probably not the best way, but I got used to do it like that, it'll remain that way until I learn full CMLL.


That explains a lot to my untrained eye, thanks! Anyway, your times are quite good for 2L CMLL. Any plans on learning full CMLL?


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## Logiqx (May 3, 2016)

h2f said:


> Luckily one look cmll though I have a problem with bowtie.



I've learnt my L, U and T COLLs now... well, almost... I still have two of the T's to learn.

I think L cases are trickier to recognise than U and T but I'm sure they will improve with practice. 

Edit: I think COLL recognition may become faster than PLL recognition, eventually.


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## muchacho (May 3, 2016)

mafergut said:


> That explains a lot to my untrained eye, thanks! Anyway, your times are quite good for 2L CMLL. Any plans on learning full CMLL?


More than half of my solves are with 1-look CMLL. I'm like 12 algs away from full CMLL, I was learning the U set but stopped a couple of weeks ago, also sune and antisune cases left.

@h2f How do you recognise L/Bowtie cases? From the position showing in algdb.net? I do an [y] to that, and I think waffle's are an [y'] away from algdb.net, but I don't know which one it's easier, I haven't tried those.


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## MarcelP (May 3, 2016)

h2f said:


> Same like Chris or @Logiqx (sorry, forgot name), Marcel.


Think of the lead singer of Wham, and then switch first with last name. Now you will never forget.


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## MarcelP (May 3, 2016)

muchacho said:


> Welcome @One Wheel
> 
> 
> I've filmed some solves (some lucky ones, I'm averaging 26.x), they look so different that Grzegorz's :confused:


Wow, nice dude! You are much smoother at Roux than I will ever be. I think slowing down and reducing the huge pausing (every now and then) will make your times so much better. Your L6E is flawless.


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## h2f (May 3, 2016)

MarcelP said:


> Think of the lead singer of Wham, and then switch first with last name. Now you will never forget.



 Thank you.


muchacho said:


> @h2f How do you recognise L/Bowtie cases? From the position showing in algdb.net? I do an [y] to that, and I think waffle's are an [y'] away from algdb.net, but I don't know which one it's easier, I haven't tried those.



I do it the same like on waffo's page. I think they are with y' rotation to algdb.net. I think they are quite easy to recon from this angle. I was affraid of this set but it become much easier than I thought.



muchacho said:


> I've filmed some solves (some lucky ones, I'm averaging 26.x), they look so different that Grzegorz's :confused:



Wow. Very nice solves. With one-look and no puases sub-20 possible. I'm averaging around 28 right now.

Here is a solution I'm glad. Unluckily with Z perm in the end.
B2 U2 B' D2 B' U2 L2 B' R2 B2 U2 R B U2 R B' R' B U' L R2

z y2
R' U' R' F' u' F' //6/6
R2 r U r2 U' R' U R r U' r' // 11/17
R U2 R D R' U2 R D' R2 //cmll
U2 M U' M' U' M' U2 M' U M2 U' M' U2 M2 U2 M' // 42/42

alg.cubing.net


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## mafergut (May 3, 2016)

@muchacho: I agree with Marcel that your L6E looks awesome. Apart from full CMLL, which it looks like you're close to finishing up with the algs, how is your inspection working? Can you plan the entire FB? And how's your progress trend lately? I'm sure you still have room for improvement beyond sub-20. There are times where I wish I had learned Roux instead of CFOP in the first place. Have you seen some videos of Roux solves by this guy in the forum @PenguinsDontFly ? It's like I will do this and this...and ops! cube solved.  Can it be that Roux has potential to be even faster than CFOP?


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## mark49152 (May 3, 2016)

MarcelP said:


> Think of the lead singer of Wham, and then switch first with last name. Now you will never forget.


Wham? Wow this really is the older cubers' thread . I wonder did anyone here used to have a hairstyle like Wham?


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## MarcelP (May 3, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> Wham? Wow this really is the older cubers' thread . I wonder did anyone here used to have a hairstyle like Wham?


Well I never did. I did have long hair in my Guns and Roses phase


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## mark49152 (May 3, 2016)

MarcelP said:


> Well I never did. I did have long hair in my Guns and Roses phase


Yeah my story is something like that too .

Here's my highlight solves from North London. Of course my best highlight was the 1:27 3BLD, but I have no footage of that due to untimely battery death.


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## MarcelP (May 3, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> Yeah my story is something like that too .
> 
> Here's my highlight solves from North London. Of course my best highlight was the 1:27 3BLD, but I have no footage of that due to untimely battery death.


Those 18's where really cool. I notice quite big pauses and you still manage to get full steps sub 19's. How do you do that? I think your LL is faster than most of us.


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## h2f (May 3, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> Wham? Wow this really is the older cubers' thread . I wonder did anyone here used to have a hairstyle like Wham?


 I was to young and later I had long hair.



mafergut said:


> @muchacho: I agree with Marcel that your L6E looks awesome. Apart from full CMLL, which it looks like you're close to finishing up with the algs, how is your inspection working? Can you plan the entire FB? And how's your progress trend lately? I'm sure you still have room for improvement beyond sub-20. There are times where I wish I had learned Roux instead of CFOP in the first place. Have you seen some videos of Roux solves by this guy in the forum @PenguinsDontFly ? It's like I will do this and this...and ops! cube solved.  Can it be that Roux has potential to be even faster than CFOP?



I like Guroux's walkthroughs, Alex Lau's and PDF's too. There's no prove if Roux is faster or slower. Too few people use it and that's why it's hard to compare both methods looking at offcial ao5s. But the best ao5 with Roux was made by Alex Lau and was ER for some time and now he's 6th in the world.


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## Jason Green (May 3, 2016)

Logiqx said:


> Hi Jason. I uploaded the Python scripts (one to download the DB and build indices, one to generate the rankings) to GitHub and the link is in the original post.
> 
> Click the ipynb files to view - https://github.com/Logiqx/wca-ipy


Sorry I'm a little slow, I guess because I do more managing nowadays than developing :/
How do I download these to execute? Do I have to copy/paste the little code snippets together into a working script? If so could you upload the entire thing, or help me know how to download it?

Also, should IDLE on Windows work to execute it? I can see that I will need MySql but that should be easy to install, I have used it before.

BTW, welcome @One Wheel!


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## Logiqx (May 3, 2016)

Jason Green said:


> Sorry I'm a little slow, I guess because I do more managing nowadays than developing :/
> How do I download these to execute? Do I have to copy/paste the little code snippets together into a working script? If so could you upload the entire thing, or help me know how to download it?
> 
> Also, should IDLE on Windows work to execute it? I can see that I will need MySql but that should be easy to install, I have used it before.
> ...



They are iPython notebooks which means they are actual code with some surrounding markup to make them look like example code / tutorials. What you see on GitHub is the actual working code.

The easiest thing to do is install Anaconda then you can load and run my iPython notebooks. Have a look at the iPython website as they have a nice video showing how iPython works.

You also need MySQL installed and an empty database for the WCA data. Once you have Anaconda and MySQL it should be pretty easy to get everything to run.

One last thing. The scripts generate bbCode for the forum as opposed to HTML. They'll need some minor tweaking to generate HTML for a normal website.


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## Jason Green (May 3, 2016)

Logiqx said:


> They are iPython notebooks which means they are actual code with some surrounding markup to make them look like example code / tutorials. What you see on GitHub is the actual working code.
> 
> The easiest thing to do is install Anaconda then you can load and run my iPython notebooks. Have a look at the iPython website as they have a nice video showing how iPython works.
> 
> ...


Thanks I may play with it!


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## mark49152 (May 3, 2016)

MarcelP said:


> Those 18's where really cool. I notice quite big pauses and you still manage to get full steps sub 19's. How do you do that? I think your LL is faster than most of us.


As you know, I never videoed my solves until recently. It came as quite a shock to see how much I paused, even when it feels like a fast solve, because it doesn't feel like I pause much. I guess the solution is more slow turning practice, although I'm not a fan of that. I think it has helped my 3x3 to do more 4x4 and 5x5 because those puzzles force slower more careful turning. I might try doing a couple of weeks of 3x3 practice on a 4x4 cube and see what happens.

Regarding 4x4, Joey Gouly judged one of my solves and observed that I had a 27 second 3x3 stage in a 1:07 solve, with no parity. That's way too much. I checked my other solves and my 3x3 stage is consistently slow. So 3x3 on 4x4 practice might conceivably help with that too.


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## newtonbase (May 4, 2016)

I had long hair too. Also, Guns n Roses.


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## Jason Green (May 4, 2016)

@Logiqx I was making pretty good progress with the scripts until our internet went out! I think I had a newer version of Python so urllib2 was in urllib.request but I got past that. Then I had some pathing issues I think I got straight. The only thing left I think is to figure out why the pymysql import is missing. I should be able to when my PC is back online. And then if I want to make changes for HTML.

Thanks though it's fun to play with!


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## Jason Green (May 4, 2016)

I got it updated into *some type* of HTML on my blog.  I'm not great with HTML so I have not made it collapsible yet, so yeah it's way long. I think it probably needs jquery or java script to do that? @Logiqx Mike I'd be happy to check in my version that creates HTML to GitHub if you want it.

https://acuriousblog.wordpress.com/how-fast-are-the-cubers-over-40/


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## h2f (May 4, 2016)

Logiqx said:


> I've learnt my L, U and T COLLs now... well, almost... I still have two of the T's to learn.
> 
> I think L cases are trickier to recognise than U and T but I'm sure they will improve with practice.
> 
> Edit: I think COLL recognition may become faster than PLL recognition, eventually.



I've forgot to mention that in my sheet 4 of 6 of them are comms. The first is of course only twister and only Yswitch is not comm and COLL.


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## muchacho (May 4, 2016)

mafergut said:


> @muchacho: I agree with Marcel that your L6E looks awesome. Apart from full CMLL, which it looks like you're close to finishing up with the algs, how is your inspection working? Can you plan the entire FB? And how's your progress trend lately? I'm sure you still have room for improvement beyond sub-20. There are times where I wish I had learned Roux instead of CFOP in the first place. Have you seen some videos of Roux solves by this guy in the forum @PenguinsDontFly ? It's like I will do this and this...and ops! cube solved.  Can it be that Roux has potential to be even faster than CFOP?


My use of inspection time is pathetic, my worst part. Most of the time I can do a 2x2 block (not in an efficient way) and then while solving maybe follow the other 2 pieces. I've seen those videos, but just that, they looked useful but didn't pay much attention then, I'll get back to them. I was sub-24 before changing color scheme, I was improving lately mainly thanks to lookahead. The change affected mainly to my blocks, maybe some to CMLL recognition and almost nothing to LSE, but with the new cube I still get some catches during CMLL and LSE is not as smooth. I'll just do solves and learn and practice the other U cases until I'm again sub-24 (I'm 26-27 now), then I'll try to practice my FB.

A graph with my first 15000 solves and another without the firsts 1000.


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## Logiqx (May 4, 2016)

h2f said:


> I've forgot to mention that in my sheet 4 of 6 of them are comms. The first is of course only twister and only Yswitch is not comm and COLL.



I really like my diagonal swap L. I use a fat version of an OLL:

OLL 35: R U2' (R2' F R F') R U2' R' 
COLL L6: r U2' (R2' F R F') R U2' r'


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## muchacho (May 4, 2016)

MarcelP said:


> Well I never did. I did have long hair in my Guns and Roses phase


I had the Beatles' hairstyle... but just when I was like 3 years old, now I could only mimick Torrente, if you know who that is.


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## Logiqx (May 4, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> I had long hair too. Also, Guns n Roses.



Seems pretty normal for this list. Yeah... I was in that demographic as well.

Maiden and Metallica were my favourites in those days and I liked GNR plus many others.



Jason Green said:


> I got it updated into *some type* of HTML on my blog.  I'm not great with HTML so I have not made it collapsible yet, so yeah it's way long. I think it probably needs jquery or java script to do that? @Logiqx Mike I'd be happy to check in my version that creates HTML to GitHub if you want it.
> 
> https://acuriousblog.wordpress.com/how-fast-are-the-cubers-over-40/



Nice one Jason. iPython notebooks are pretty cool eh?

There is a big debate about Python 2 or Python 3 but that is outside the scope of this forum, lol.

jQuery would be a quick and easy way to make the tables collapsable. Perhaps you can make your code switchable so that it can generate bbcode or HTML?

In terms of submitting your changes, perhaps you might like to try the following activity:
- create yourself a github account
- "fork" my code so you have your own repository
- "commit" your changes to your repository
- submit a "pull request" so that I can pull your changes into the original project

I did the same a little while back to submit some minor changes to visualcube.


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## h2f (May 4, 2016)

Logiqx said:


> I really like my diagonal swap L. I use a fat version of an OLL:
> 
> OLL 35: R U2' (R2' F R F') R U2' R'
> COLL L6: r U2' (R2' F R F') R U2' r'



Good to know. I use cmll which is very nice: L' U2 R U' r' U2 R l U' R'. I didnt like oll35 and switched to something different taken from Ch. Olson's channel.


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## Logiqx (May 4, 2016)

h2f said:


> Good to know. I use cmll which is very nice: L' U2 R U' r' U2 R l U' R'. I didnt like oll35 and switched to something different taken from Ch. Olson's channel.



The other thing about this case is that adjacent colours are on top so it's either the no swap (triple sune) or diag swap. One of the non-twisted corners has stickers matching the colours on top and the other has stickers with opposites to those on top. I identify which non-twisted corner matches the colours on top (i.e. look at just one sticker on either of non-twisted corners) and AUF so that the appropriate corner is in UFR. It's then pretty obvious whether I need to execute triple-sune or the fat OLL without needing an additional AUF.

This recognition also works for U and T cases where adjacent colours are on top. Simple AUF rules help me to differentiate the cases whilst I am still a noob.


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## Shaky Hands (May 4, 2016)

Back in February on this thread, I bemoaned the number of corner twists I got with a Thunderclap and put that cube aside. I picked it up again yesterday for a bit of BLD practice (still a long way from a success) and then today I managed a few 3x3 PB's with it despite not being that used to it:

Ao25: 26.22 (previous best 26.43)
Ao100: 27.45 (previous best 27.99)
Total time for 100 solves: 46:07 (previous best 47:12)
Total sub-30 solves: 77 (previous best 75)

I'm going to go back to this cube for a bit. It's showing potential I may not have realised before.


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## JanW (May 4, 2016)

Hi there Oldies! Long time no cubing. Or just a little bit... First few months of this year were really busy, didn't have time to sit down and do timed solves. But I've had a few cubes lying around the house, which I've picked up for a few hand scrambles whenever I walk by, and also done some slow solving while watching TV. In the last few days I did the first couple of hundred timed solves of the year, and I'm pleased to see that I have kept improving over the past few months, even if practice has been a lot more sporadic.

Broke all my PB:s today.

Single: 23.349
Ao5: 26.738
Ao12: 27.927
Ao50: 30.054
Ao100: 30.267

Cannot quite say I'm sub30 yet, but at least I'm closer than ever.

One thing I've been thinking about lately is corner recognition. Is that something worth thinking about? I'll give an example. In the picture below, the white cross is done and you see a orange-white corner at the upper left, a blue-white corner at the upper right and a green-white corner in the front at the bottom. Can you tell (during a solve) the third color of any of those pieces without turning the cube to look?







Second example. Three F2L pairs are solved and you see the white of the last corner in the back left corner. Can you tell which way it is turned and which color will be upwards with a L move without turning the cube to look?






Just wondering if this is a skill some of you might have acquired with experience, or with practice, and if it is worth the effort to think about such things during slow solves.


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## Shaky Hands (May 4, 2016)

@JanW - the way I would think about this is that if the white was on the D-face, the relative position of centers should always identify what the other colour is.

In the first image, the missing colours should be Green on the White-Orange corner, Red on the White-Blue corner and Red again on the White-Green corner.

In the second image, if we assume Orange to be the F-face, the missing colours on the White corner should be Green on the B-face and Red on the D-face.

If you look at a solved cube and play around with the positions, hopefully you can see what I mean.


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## muchacho (May 4, 2016)

Hi JanW, welcome back!

@Shaky Hands Yeah, it's a good cube, it gets better with some use, maybe that's why it didn't impress you much at first. It's one of my preferred cubes (but I think I prefer even more stable ones like Tanglong or Weilong).

PBs:
3x3 OH single: 58.580 (was 59.932 since 30-jan, I didn't practice much after that, 50 solves since then)
3x3 OH ao5: 1:05.131 (was 1:11.358 from 7-jan)
3x3 OH ao12: 1:16.973 (was 1:17.353 from 30-jan)
4x4 single: 1:46.680 (was 1:49.880 from 26-apr)


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## h2f (May 4, 2016)

Hi @JanW I was thinking how are you. NIce to see you back


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## JanW (May 4, 2016)

Shaky Hands said:


> @JanW - the way I would think about this is that if the white was on the D-face, the relative position of centers should always identify what the other colour is.
> 
> In the first image, the missing colours should be Green on the White-Orange corner, Red on the White-Blue corner and Red again on the White-Green corner.
> 
> ...


Thanks! This is pretty much the way I've been thinking about it, yes. The question was more if you do this kind of thinking on the fly while solving. Or do you turn the cube to look at the piece. I can figure it out at the moment, but takes a couple of seconds, so during a speedsolve I would just turn the cube and have a look at the back. I'm wondering if I should keep working on this to make it intuitive, or if there are more important things to focus on.

Thanks for the welcomes!  Maybe I should get back into the race to sub 30 and stick around.


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## Logiqx (May 4, 2016)

@JanW - Nice to see you back. In answer to your questions, I can certainly tell those corners during a speed solve without turning the cube to look. There is no reasoning involved. This ability comes through lots of solving.

Also worth noting that I'd probably know the other sticker in your first example due to lookahead, tracking whatever corners are on the top. The second case would be automatic for me since the white is clearly visible on the side.


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## newtonbase (May 4, 2016)

Does anyone here do half centres for last four in Yau? It looks quite nice.


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## JanW (May 4, 2016)

@Logiqx Thanks! So better to focus on improving lookahead and eventually I'll get used to recognizing those corners automatically. That sounds about right.


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## h2f (May 4, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> Does anyone here do half centres for last four in Yau? It looks quite nice.



I do. Always.


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## h2f (May 4, 2016)

Logiqx said:


> The other thing about this case is that adjacent colours are on top so it's either the no swap (triple sune) or diag swap. One of the non-twisted corners has stickers matching the colours on top and the other has stickers with opposites to those on top. I identify which non-twisted corner matches the colours on top (i.e. look at just one sticker on either of non-twisted corners) and AUF so that the appropriate corner is in UFR. It's then pretty obvious whether I need to execute triple-sune or the fat OLL without needing an additional AUF.
> 
> This recognition also works for U and T cases where adjacent colours are on top. Simple AUF rules help me to differentiate the cases whilst I am still a noob.



I didnt notice it earlier. Thanks. I'm recognizing with Waffo's system of patterns etc.


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## Logiqx (May 4, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> Does anyone here do half centres for last four in Yau? It looks quite nice.



Yes, always.


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## earth2dan (May 4, 2016)

Wowzers! I just can't keep up with this thread! you guys are great. Admittedly I only skimmed over the last several pages, but I saw lots of PB's (awesome!), and lots of Roux discussion. I tried Roux and it's an enjoyable method to solve, but I'm really slow at it. Roux is another one of those "once I get to sub-20 at CFOP" things for me.

I finally received my AoFu GT 7x7! today (along with a few other puzzles). I considered waiting till tonight so I could do an unboxing, but I couldn't wait, and opened it up here at the office  I'll do some solves tonight and see what I think of it.

@JanW For that last F2L case. As @Logiqx said, definitely focus on improving lookahead rather than trying to deduce the orientation of that corner piece in one look. I also highly recommend you practice inserting pairs in the back slots. As you do this you will begin to recognize these corner cases without even really thinking about it and you won't need to rotate the cube, even if your lookahead isn't very good.



newtonbase said:


> Does anyone here do half centres for last four in Yau? It looks quite nice.


I'm trying to use half centers more and more, because I really like it. Though in speedsolves I often regress to my bad one center at a time habits.


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## Logiqx (May 4, 2016)

h2f said:


> I didnt notice it earlier. Thanks. I'm recognizing with Wafer's system of patterns etc.



Part of the fun learning COLL has been figuring out the recognition. I've only looked at other peoples recognition after figuring something out for myself.


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## h2f (May 4, 2016)

Logiqx said:


> Part of the fun learning COLL has been figuring out the recognition. I've only looked at other peoples recognition after figuring something out for myself.



The exercise I like is to take 6 cubes and to this:
1. Prepare every case in proper order from 1 to 6. This forces connection between cases like doing B1 makes C1 etc.
2. Solving them in ordrer from 1 to 6.
When I used to it. I do 2. randomly. Next step is take 12 cubes and do the same but in connection B with C. D with E (T cases with U cases). T with U and H with Pi. And again - right order and random order. I really like this way of remembering it and it works for me.


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## sqAree (May 4, 2016)

What is this half centers for yau everyone is talking about?


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## Logiqx (May 4, 2016)

h2f said:


> The exercise I like is to take 6 cubes and to this:
> 1. Prepare every case in proper order from 1 to 6. This forces connection between cases like doing B1 makes C1 etc.
> 2. Solving them in ordrer from 1 to 6.
> When I used to it. I do 2. randomly. Next step is take 12 cubes and do the same but in connection B with C. D with E (T cases with U cases). T with U and H with Pi. And again - right order and random order. I really like this way of remembering it and it works for me.



I grouped the L, U and T cases using a similar principle. I learnt the mirrors and inverses along with cases which have the same colour combinations on top at the same time. Like you say it is helpful in setting up cases for practice and it aids recognition.

I haven't gone as far as setting up 6 cubes at a time but I'm finding real solves really helpful. I'm using the cases I know on big cubes, OH, Petrus and untimed 2H solves. I'm not ready to use them in timed 2H speed solves as I don't want to incur a 1-5 second delay.


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## Jason Green (May 4, 2016)

JanW said:


> Thanks for the welcomes!  Maybe I should get back into the race to sub 30 and stick around.



Obviously! 



earth2dan said:


> Wowzers! I just can't keep up with this thread! you guys are great.
> 
> I finally received my AoFu GT 7x7! today (along with a few other puzzles).
> 
> I'm trying to use half centers more and more, because I really like it. Though in speedsolves I often regress to my bad one center at a time habits.



I would never keep up without my Tapatalk so I can read off and on at work.  Speaking of big cubes, who all has tried a Bochuang vs. the Yuxin? I've already raved some about my Bochuang, but I think it is my most enjoyable cube just to feel the way it turns, even compared to the G4 and my Yuexiao! Is the Yuxin that nice?

I'll half to check out half centers sometime!


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## newtonbase (May 5, 2016)

sqAree said:


> What is this half centers for yau everyone is talking about?


I hadn't realised it was so popular. 
With cross 3/4 complete and held on left, with unsolved dedge at U, you solve half of 3 centres and put them, in order, on the left keeping U free. You then solve the remaining centres with U and Rw moves only. This video explains it better than I have




I've had a play with it and I like it.


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## One Wheel (May 5, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> Does anyone here do half centres for last four in Yau? It looks quite nice.



I've messed with it, and I do pay some attention to preserving bars, but when I try to build bars and then place them to solve my last 4 centers it seems that more often than not I place my centers wrong. Will greater familiarity with the color scheme over time fix that, or is there some other trick I'm just missing? I pay attention to color scheme when I'm building my first three cross edges, and then build centers one at a time (or more like 1-1-2) to match the cross edges. For some reason it's harder to follow matching the cross edges when I use half centers.


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## Jason Green (May 5, 2016)

@Logiqx, I created the fork but that's all today. I decided to practice instead of playing with the scripts tonight. 

I think I'll make an output option that can be BB, HTML, or BOTH. That way down the road if you or me or whoever wants to generate both outputs we aren't annoyed by having to run the script twice.


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## Logiqx (May 5, 2016)

One Wheel said:


> I've messed with it, and I do pay some attention to preserving bars, but when I try to build bars and then place them to solve my last 4 centers it seems that more often than not I place my centers wrong. Will greater familiarity with the color scheme over time fix that, or is there some other trick I'm just missing? I pay attention to color scheme when I'm building my first three cross edges, and then build centers one at a time (or more like 1-1-2) to match the cross edges. For some reason it's harder to follow matching the cross edges when I use half centers.


No need for the centres to match the cross. You just need to get their order correct. Start with a centre which has a bar pre-built. After solving the final cross piece just do an L turn to align everything.

Sent from my GT-I9305 using Tapatalk


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## h2f (May 5, 2016)

This happend to me yesterday.


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## muchacho (May 5, 2016)

A 2 moves FB, then you tried something strange before saying "No" and then that walk away after a good time... a great European movie


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## h2f (May 5, 2016)

Scramble was off hand so no matter and doesnt count. My SB sucks. And in polish "no" means "yes" or "yeah".


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## muchacho (May 5, 2016)

Polish is too cool!


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## Logiqx (May 5, 2016)

I started doing a bit of 5x5 again this week after a month or so neglecting it.

Milestone session... first sub-3. 

# of solving: 5
# of penalty: 0
# of DNF: 0
Std Dev: 8.595
Best of all: 2:38.673
Worst of all: 4:02.552
Average of all: 2:59.237
Best Avg of 5: 2:59.237

Solving times: 3:08.598 2:38.673 3:01.274 4:02.552 2:47.841

p.s. the 4 minutes solve was a complete screwup.


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## h2f (May 5, 2016)

It's closer to yeah and you cant say "no" (pronunciation [ˈnəʊ]) in offcial speech. It's something like "aha" or "well". To say no we use "nie" [niː , ˈnaɪ] which is close to Deutsch "nein" but witout "n" in the end].

Back to 6x6 before work I starte right now - first sub6 on cam.

Edit: and next one almost sub6 - 6:01. It could be sub6 but Hperm (I cant do this on big cubes and do 2xUb) and pop during first Ub.


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## mafergut (May 5, 2016)

Again I missed a couple of pages just by one day off the forum. Nice Roux solve @h2f, Grzegorz.
I will check that "half centers" video, @newtonbase Mark. I definitely need to try new things to improve my 4x4.

EDIT: Watched the video, it was short but it really looks like it is a better approach at L4C than building them 1 at a time. Do you guys know if the top dogs at 4x4 use this? Anyway I have to try it. Too many times I have seen that I have several bars and I have had the temptation to put them all vertical before starting to build my 1st center in order to avoid splitting them


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## h2f (May 5, 2016)

Sorry for spamming - anoher one 5:40.75 with double parity.


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## Isaac Lai (May 5, 2016)

One major problem thay I experienced with half centres at first (I don't do it now) is that you have to be pretty efficient and look ahead properly. Otherwise, you will waste a lot of time doing Rw2s repeatedly to find your pieces. The good thing about solving one at a time is that you know which centres are solved and unsolved, so lookahead is somewhat easier.


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## mafergut (May 5, 2016)

Isaac Lai said:


> One major problem thay I experienced with half centres at first (I don't do it now) is that you have to be pretty efficient and look ahead properly. Otherwise, you will waste a lot of time doing Rw2s repeatedly to find your pieces. The good thing about solving one at a time is that you know which centres are solved and unsolved, so lookahead is somewhat easier.


Yeah, but I think it could solve one of my problems, which is having to do a lot of L2 Lw2 when I need to move pieces on the left, which I try to avoid and go for Rw moves when possible.


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## h2f (May 5, 2016)

Isaac Lai said:


> One major problem thay I experienced with half centres at first (I don't do it now) is that you have to be pretty efficient and look ahead properly. Otherwise, you will waste a lot of time doing Rw2s repeatedly to find your pieces. The good thing about solving one at a time is that you know which centres are solved and unsolved, so lookahead is somewhat easier.


When you used to it's not so hard. Often pieces are next to them and it goes quite fast.


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## Logiqx (May 5, 2016)

Isaac Lai said:


> One major problem thay I experienced with half centres at first (I don't do it now) is that you have to be pretty efficient and look ahead properly. Otherwise, you will waste a lot of time doing Rw2s repeatedly to find your pieces. The good thing about solving one at a time is that you know which centres are solved and unsolved, so lookahead is somewhat easier.



Another tip is to complete the half centres in a clockwise direction (e.g. red, green, orange), starting with the colour matching the bottom half centre. This ensures the front face and top face always contain unsolved pieces and it helps lookahead. I used to solve them in an anti-clockwise direction but there is no information on the front face and you are constantly looking at the back of the cube. Changing the direction has really helped my lookahead.


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## h2f (May 5, 2016)

Logiqx said:


> Another tip is to complete the half centres in a clockwise direction (e.g. red, green, orange), starting with the colour matching the bottom half centre. This ensures the front face and top face always contain unsolved pieces and it helps lookahead. I used to solve them in an anti-clockwise direction but there is no information on the front face and you are constantly looking at the back of the cube. Changing the direction has really helped my lookahead.



That's the way I do it. Nice to see you find the same idea.

Edit: My first sub6 if you're not get bored yet


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## moralsh (May 5, 2016)

muchacho said:


> Polish is too cool!



I'll never forget, when I was in Warsaw some years ago, being in a train station and finding 2 doors, one with the sign wyjście and another with the sign wejście. I had to look a couple of times to notice they're not the same word, in fact they have opposite meaning (Exit and entry or the other way around) 

No wonder there are so many top cubers in poland, to master that language you need a lot of wits 

Nice solves, by the way


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## h2f (May 5, 2016)

moralsh said:


> I'll never forget, when I was in Warsaw some years ago, being in a train station and finding 2 doors, one with the sign wyjście and another with the sign wejście.



He he he. You know I've never noticed before they differ by one letter.


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## earth2dan (May 5, 2016)

Jason Green said:


> Speaking of big cubes, who all has tried a Bochuang vs. the Yuxin?


I have both in stickerless, and I also have a black stickered BoChuang. Both are amazing 5x5's. They have a very different feel, and I still can't decide which I like better. The Yuxin is incredibly smooth, and it's probably the quietest 5x5 I've ever solved (for this reason it is my office 5x5). The outer layers are a little bit faster and smoother than the inner layers, but I really like that. 3x3 stage is a dream on the Yuxin. I've never lubed or adjusted tensions on my Yuxin, and it just gets better and better as I break it in. I lubed my stickered BoChuang and I mildly regret it, it was great at first but now it seems to be slowing down and feeling gummy. I don't plan to lube my stickerless BoChuang for fear of the same thing happening.


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## mafergut (May 5, 2016)

@earth2dan: I think, sadly, the issue with BoChuang slowing down is a general problem that's happening to everyone as it breaks in. But it's nice to hear that my new stickerless Yuxin is gonna be so good


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## mark49152 (May 5, 2016)

@earth2dan , what lube did you use in that BoChuang?


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## earth2dan (May 5, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> @earth2dan , what lube did you use in that BoChuang?


I used Cubicle weight 3. I'll occasionally put a couple drops of Maru in there to speed it up, but that doesn't last long.


mafergut said:


> @earth2dan: I think, sadly, the issue with BoChuang slowing down is a general problem that's happening to everyone as it breaks in. But it's nice to hear that my new stickerless Yuxin is gonna be so good


Yeah, unfortunately it does seem to be a common problem. I wonder if it's the soft plastic shaving away and gunking up the internals. Might be worthwhile to completely take it apart and give all the pieces a good cleaning... My wife and kids are gone this weekend, could be a project for me  And yes, I'm sure you're going to like the stickerless Yuxin. For some reason I had trouble with the red/orange at first, but I'm used to it now and I've really come to like this puzzle.


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## mark49152 (May 5, 2016)

earth2dan said:


> I used Cubicle weight 3. I'll occasionally put a couple drops of Maru in there to speed it up, but that doesn't last long.


My BoChuang hasn't arrived yet, but I have gummed up a number of bigger cubes with diff oil, even 10k (equivalent of Cubicle wt1). I recently switched to 10k shock oil on the advice of Rob Yau and it is way better than diff oil on anything bigger than 3x3.


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## Shaky Hands (May 5, 2016)

@mark49152 - thanks for sharing that tip... any particular brand of 10k shock oil in the UK you're using? Something like http://www.modelsport.co.uk/hpi-pro-silicone-shock-oil-10wt-60cc-/rc-car-products/364739 ?


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## Chree (May 5, 2016)

@earth2dan - I had the same problem with my Bochuang. I usually lube all of my big cubes with 25wt Shock Oil, which is fairly light... but for some reason it made my Bochuang completely terrible. I had to disassemble it and clean it. Then on the advice of Chris Olson I put traxxis 50K in. It's been amazing ever since.

I know this is in opposition with what @mark49152 said, who suggested using a much lighter lube than what I first used. But maybe with the BoChuang, there's an "anti-goldilocks" range of lubes that just do. not. work. Gotta aim really thin or really thick... anything else causes problems. But that's just a guess.

Edit: Might as well mention... I just got my PB single with my Bochuang last night!

1. (1:15.75)
Scramble : D2 Lw U Rw2 U' Fw Lw' D Rw' Dw Bw2 Uw' Fw' Rw' Bw2 L B2 Dw2 Bw' Rw2 D' F2 U' R U Rw' Dw F' Lw' B' Uw' F' D' F2 L' Fw Dw Lw2 Uw' F2 L2 D2 R2 Dw F2 Dw' B L Dw Rw' Fw U Lw2 Bw2 U2 Lw B2 U2 F2 D'
Date : 16/05/04 21:54:14


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## mafergut (May 5, 2016)

Chree said:


> @earth2dan - I had the same problem with my Bochuang. [...] Then on the advice of Chris Olson I put traxxis 50K in. It's been amazing ever since. [...]
> 
> Edit: Might as well mention... I just got my PB single with my Bochuang last night! 1. (1:15.75)



Interesting how difficult lubing effect is to understand or even find any logic / soundness to it 

Nice PB!!! That's just 1 second slower than my own PB... for 4x4


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## Shaky Hands (May 5, 2016)

Some of you will recall I had some success with returning to the Thunderclap 3x3 yesterday where I beat a bunch of PB's. I've gone and done it again today with another 100 solves with the same cube:

New PB Ao12: 24.90 (previous best 25.60)
New PB Ao25: 25.91 (previous best 26.22)
New PB Ao100: 27.26 (previous best 27.45)
Total time for 100 solves: 45m 49s (previous best 46m 07s)
Percentage of Sub-25 solves: 29% (previous best 20%)

I think I'm finding the cross easier with this cube. Maybe as I've transitioned from stickered to stickerless. Whatever it is, I've managed to surprise myself. Now I've got my first ever Sub-25 Ao12, I think I have a good chance of getting to a regular Sub-25 average by the end of the year, which is one of my main goals.

Feeling happy anyway and wanted to share the news.  Cheers all.


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## mark49152 (May 5, 2016)

Shaky Hands said:


> @mark49152 - thanks for sharing that tip... any particular brand of 10k shock oil in the UK you're using? Something like http://www.modelsport.co.uk/hpi-pro-silicone-shock-oil-10wt-60cc-/rc-car-products/364739 ?


That is exactly what I use, and even the same shop .

@Chree, it's entirely plausible that the effect is different in different cubes and at different tensions, and of course depends on personal preference. In my AoChuang, I have 10wt shock oil on top of some residual 10k diff oil that I didn't fully clean out, and I think that is even better. My theory is that the stickier lube eases corner cutting but increases friction on normal turns, and the lighter lube on top reduces that friction without degrading the corner cutting. However, having regretted it more times than not, I no longer like to put diff oil in new big cubes so haven't tested that combination on anything else.


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## earth2dan (May 5, 2016)

@mark49152 and @Chree Thanks for the tips guys! I actually have both traxxas 50k and some light shock oil so I may consider lubing each of my BoChuangs differently to see what works best for me.

Chris Olsen uses Traxxas 50k for EVERYTHING!!! haha. I think he prefers a slower, more controllable cube. I lubed my MoYu AoSu heavily with traxxas 50k as per Chris Olsen and initially I hated it, but I stuck with it and broke it in... now it's magical 

@Shaky Hands Nice PBs! I initially bought a stickerless thunderclap and fell in love with the way it feels, but the green shade just doesn't work for me. For some reason I get it confused with the yellow all the time. It screws up my F2L and OLL. I then bought a stickered one so I could put my own shades on it, but it just doesn't feel the same. I wish I could get a stickerless thunderclap with better shades for me, because I really like it.


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## newtonbase (May 5, 2016)

I know little about lube. I use Maru which speeds up my 3x3s after a few solves but the only other stuff I bought was shock oil 2 years ago. I gummed up my cubes with it so gave up. One was 100 CPS and the other 500 CPS whatever that means?


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## mark49152 (May 5, 2016)

Today's accomplishment: my first half-decent full BLD success using only comms for corners, 1:50.


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## newtonbase (May 5, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> Today's accomplishment: my first half-decent full BLD success using only comms for corners, 1:50.


Very nice.


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## h2f (May 5, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> Today's accomplishment: my first half-decent full BLD success using only comms for corners, 1:50.



Nice. I'm out of bld for some time. Need rest, clear memo and make better small details in my memo.


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## Chree (May 5, 2016)

@earth2dan The tricky part with traxxis 50K is NOT to go overboard with it. It is way too easy to over-lube... making things gummy and slow. It's not that traxxis slows things down... it's that TOO MUCH traxxis slows things down. I've messed with Chris's thunderclap... and it's WAY faster than mine, but we both use traxxis. The difference was: I used too much.

Think of it this way. Pour a little bit of water on a tile floor and it becomes slippery. But flood the same floor with a foot of water, and it's much harder to move through it.

That all said... putting traxxis in big cubes is kinda easy, because there's so much more surface area inside, it's hard to over-do... but not impossible (as you well know =D)


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## earth2dan (May 5, 2016)

@Chree no doubt. I used to use traxxas 50k for all my puzzles. Maybe I've just always over lubed. My puzzles always started out gummy and needed a good break in before they started feeling really good with the 50k. One day I lubed an AoLong with cubicle weight 3 and it was instantly awesome. So I started using it for everything  I also have a bottle of traxxas 30k and 10k which, near as I can tell, are about the same viscosity as cubicle weight 3 and 1 respectively. It's been over a year since I've lubed any puzzles with 50k, maybe it's time to give it another go. I'll be mindful to apply it very sparingly now though.


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## mark49152 (May 5, 2016)

I use 50k for 3x3 and 2x2 and agree it is awesome, as long as used sparingly.

More BLD adventures...


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## Chree (May 6, 2016)

@earth2dan Hmmmm... you make a compelling case  Maybe I should give the lighter ones a try, at least on some 3x3's to test.


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## Shaky Hands (May 6, 2016)

Good stuff @mark49152. Got there this time! Did you work out if the non-parity error in the comp was memo or execution?


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## earth2dan (May 6, 2016)

Chree said:


> @earth2dan Hmmmm... you make a compelling case  Maybe I should give the lighter ones a try, at least on some 3x3's to test.


Definitely worth a test. Though it's worth noting that the 3x3's I've lubed in the past with 50k are still good. Whereas I've had to re-lube some of the 3x3's I lubed with lighter weights. Trade off I guess for instant results with no break in.


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## Jason Green (May 6, 2016)

I know nothing about lube compared to you guys. I bought some Maru and a couple of weights from the cubicle, sometimes I squirt some in there. That's about how scientific I am. 

I think the 1:15 is about 19 seconds faster than my PB, also on 4x4 though!


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## earth2dan (May 6, 2016)

Jason Green said:


> I know nothing about lube compared to you guys. I bought some Maru and a couple of weights from the cubicle, sometimes I squirt some in there. That's about how scientific I am.
> 
> I think the 1:15 is about 19 seconds faster than my PB, also on 4x4 though!


I used to build and paint models as a hobby, but I don't really have the time/space for that anymore. I think that disassembling, lubing, and stickering cubes has filled that void for me. It's almost therapeutic. And I get to play with them when I'm done!

I don't think I'm fast enough for the lube to really make a significant difference anyway. It's just a part of the hobby that I enjoy 

The wife and kids are going to be gone this weekend so I'm planning to disassemble, lube, and resticker a few cubes. Iv'e got a couple 5x5's, a 6x6, and *shudder* a 13x13 that need service. I'm afraid of that 13x13 and probably won't touch it, but it's already lost a few center stickers that I'm basically treating as wild cards or "Wild Karrde"s (10 points if you get that reference without google)


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## mark49152 (May 6, 2016)

Shaky Hands said:


> Good stuff @mark49152. Got there this time! Did you work out if the non-parity error in the comp was memo or execution?


Two of the four bad cubes were missed parity, one had the last edge target missed (I think it was a flipped edge but I mistakenly solved one sticker instead of flipping it), and the other was a fumble which I knew during comp that I'd done. So all four were execution errors which is why I wanted to test my memo again. Next time


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## JanW (May 6, 2016)

Very nice mbld @mark49152!

I haven't done any blind solving since last year. Tried a sighted solve using my old bld techniques. The nice things with intuitive comms is that there are no algs to forget, so I got most of the cube solved nicely. But I cannot at all remember the parity or edge-flipping algs I used. Have to refresh my memory.


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## MarcelP (May 6, 2016)

Jason Green said:


> I know nothing about lube compared to you guys. I bought some Maru and a couple of weights from the cubicle, sometimes I squirt some in there. That's about how scientific I am.
> 
> I think the 1:15 is about 19 seconds faster than my PB, also on 4x4 though!


Maru is perfect. But just do not squirt, use 2 - 3 drops at the most.. Do it like this: Pull an corner out, than take an edge out. Drop 1 drop in the area close to the torpedo. Do that on two edges and one drop on a cornerstalk-base. And you are good to go for at least 200 solves.


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## mafergut (May 6, 2016)

Lots of stuff about lubing. I have never lubed a big cube but for 3x3s I ended up hating Maru because of the reapply every 100-200 solves thing so I changed to Cubicle silicone oil wt 5 for the core and mainly wt 3 for the pieces. It lasts for thousands of solves. In fact since then I only have needed to relube 1 cube, just a tiny bit of wt3 in the pieces (nothing in the core) and ready to go for a long time again.

Watching the 4/8 MBLD video (great video by the way @mark49152, amazing how you were able to do 8/8 a couple days later, your memo is sticky ) I realized it's been at least two weeks since I last did any BLD at the weekly comp and I'm afraid I have forgotten half the M2 algs already  Need to come back to it... eventually.

I just did 3 or 4 practise solves with 4x4 changing to half centers and 3-2-3 pairing. I got a best of 1:47, close to my average times right now. Not sure if half centers is going to be faster for now it looks like it takes more or less the same time. Maybe I will time an average of 12 L4C-only solves with 1 at a time and with half centers to see if there is any difference. I just hope 3-2-3 at least gives more stable times and not just some very good some terrible. At least after just 3-4 solves I seem to be were I started, which is not bad at all.


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## Jason Green (May 6, 2016)

MarcelP said:


> Maru is perfect. But just do not squirt, use 2 - 3 drops at the most.. Do it like this: Pull an corner out, than take an edge out. Drop 1 drop in the area close to the torpedo. Do that on two edges and one drop on a cornerstalk-base. And you are good to go for at least 200 solves.



Thanks for the tip. Squirt was an exaggeration but I do just typically put a few drops on the side of some pieces. So the way you describe would be better I'm sure. Although I don't use it as much either due to the short life, I don't like running out every day or two.


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## mark49152 (May 6, 2016)

mafergut said:


> amazing how you were able to do 8/8 a couple days later, your memo is sticky )


Thanks, I assume other people's memories are similar. It's fascinating how long a memo can stick, especially since it can dissolve completely in the space of a few seconds if not firmly committed to memory, as very often happens when I'm rushing 3BLD corner memo!  I have done the same with failed 4BLD attempts too, once after several days. I'd like to try something like a one year delayed BLD too, that would be really cool .


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## h2f (May 6, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> I'd like to try something like a one year delayed BLD too, that would be really cool .



Im in the middle of it. It's quite easy. I can recall my memo when I want. I do not repeat it every day. The only thing is I'm not quite sure if it is correct - maybe there's something wrong?  

In 6x6 I got firs sub6 ao5.


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## tiramisu (May 6, 2016)

This is one obscenely long thread. New old guy here. Just getting through beginners method and starting to think about bld. More interested in learning to think in 3 dimensions and practicing mnemonic techniques than in speed Cubing. Working on remedial math and mental calculation as side projects. 

Howdy



...


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## Lid (May 7, 2016)

Some late night squan... in avg 50 of 19.053 I got:
20.173, 19.740, 17.173[p], 18.652, 16.414, 13.056, 20.528[p], 14.556, 17.041, (20.996[p]), (12.092), 15.219 = *17.255 PB*, last 5 = *15.605 PB*

The 12.092: (4, 0) / (0, -3) / (5, -1) / (3, -3) / (-5, -2) / (-3, 0) / (0, -1) / (-3, -3) / (-5, -4) / (-2, -4) / (0, -3)
0,3/-4,-2/-2,-1/3,3/ || CS
0,-1/3,0/ || CO
4,4/3,0/-1,-1/-3,0/ || EO
1,-5/-1,2/-2,-2/3,0/2,6 || PBL, forced EP skip


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## Jason Green (May 7, 2016)

tiramisu said:


> This is one obscenely long thread. New old guy here. Just getting through beginners method and starting to think about bld. More interested in learning to think in 3 dimensions and practicing mnemonic techniques than in speed Cubing. Working on remedial math and mental calculation as side projects.
> 
> Howdy
> 
> ...


Welcome! The thread is long and moves very fast! If your give a day there will be several pages to catch up on.


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## newtonbase (May 7, 2016)

tiramisu said:


> This is one obscenely long thread. New old guy here. Just getting through beginners method and starting to think about bld. More interested in learning to think in 3 dimensions and practicing mnemonic techniques than in speed Cubing. Working on remedial math and mental calculation as side projects.
> 
> Howdy
> 
> ...


Hi. Glad you made it to the thread. There are a few blind solvers here so feel free to ask anything.


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## h2f (May 7, 2016)

tiramisu said:


> This is one obscenely long thread. New old guy here. Just getting through beginners method and starting to think about bld. More interested in learning to think in 3 dimensions and practicing mnemonic techniques than in speed Cubing. Working on remedial math and mental calculation as side projects.
> 
> Howdy
> 
> ...



Hi man. If you want to get into 3bld look at Noah's tutorial on Cubing World


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## Schmidt (May 7, 2016)

Haven't solved a 4*4 in months.... surprised that I still know the notation 
https://www.speedsolving.com/competitions/index.php?showPerson=127
I was also surprised by the first 3*3 solve


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## h2f (May 7, 2016)

First ao100 with Roux, full cmll and full CN and limited inspection - 30.28. I thought it might be worse.


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## muchacho (May 7, 2016)

Nice!

Full CN as in white/yellow on bottom and any other color as FB?


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## JanW (May 7, 2016)

Sweet mother of Moyu.... Did not see this coming. First Sub-20 single!

19.48s
F L B2 D2 R' U R F L2 B D2 B' D' L U' F L D R F' R' U' B' L D2

I tried to reconstruct, but cannot quite work out what I did during F2L. It is the correct scramble, as I remember cross R' L' D L2 D after z2 inspection, then having the green-orange F2L pair in front of me.

I think F2L was pretty much done like this:

F2L 1: R U' R' U y L' U L
F2L 2: L U' L' U' R U R'
F2L 3: R' U' R U' R' U' R
F2L 4: U L U L' U2 L U' L'

but that doesn't give me the same last layer case. Must have done some unnecessary move in there, or something, to give me a different case. LL had EP skip and CO was a sune.


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## h2f (May 7, 2016)

muchacho said:


> Nice!
> 
> Full CN as in white/yellow on bottom and any other color as FB?


 
Yes. But of course when there's no any pair I start with green or blue. In other cases every edge with center or pair. I like bottom pairs.


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## muchacho (May 7, 2016)

@JanW Congrats, when did you switch to CFOP? I think you were using another method, right?


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## JanW (May 7, 2016)

@muchacho Still doing the same CPEOLL->CO->EP approach for last layer, combining the last 2 as well for about 20 cases. And then there's lucky skips, like the EP skip in the solve mentioned above.

On a side note, had I done F2L as described above, I would have followed up with:

CPEO: (y') R' F R F' d' L' U L
CO&EP: (y') R' U2 R U R' U R

That sune case is easy to recognize from pairs front-left and left-back as the one solved with antisune from the back. It's the only sune case I solve with anything but the standard sune.


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## mark49152 (May 7, 2016)

JanW said:


> Still doing the same CPEOLL->CO->EP approach for last layer


What are the advantages of that?


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## JanW (May 7, 2016)

@mark49152 No real advantages really, I think... The first last layer method I learned was EO-CP-CO-EP. Then I figured out how to combine EO and CP into one step for most cases and went online to look for algs for the remaining cases. That's when I found these forums. At that stage I knew this 3-look last layer approach, and switching to CFOP would require I start by learning full PLL, only to get another 3lll approach, which hasn't been appealing. The plan is to switch to ZZ at some point and learn PLL for 2lll.


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## Jason Green (May 7, 2016)

Awesome @JanW! Mine was not that long ago I remember how awesome it felt!!


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## mafergut (May 7, 2016)

@JanW: Congrats! It sure feels good!

Right now I have less time to cube so I have not been able to do all the weekly comp events I was doing until a couple weeks ago or so. My little time spreads too thin and I cannot improve at anything so, for some time I'm concentrating in just one or two events for several weeks in a row. At the moment I'm trying to get used to 3-2-3 pairing in Yau 4x4 and deciding whether to stick to L4C one at a time or change to half centers. For now the verdict seems to be to stick to one center at a time and change to 3-2-3. My times with 3-2-3 seem to be more regular but I don't seem to be as fast as when 6-2 goes smoothly. Of course I don't get also those horrible times I got when 6-2 went awry, so I think it's worth the change but I'm not expecting a sub-1:10 single anytime soon. I got a couple sub 1:30 today, which is not bad.

Sorry if I'm a bit more silent than usual but I'm trying to make the most out of my practice time and that means less time with you guys in the forums.


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## newtonbase (May 7, 2016)

mafergut said:


> Of course I don't get also those horrible times I got when 6-2 went awry,


There's the benefit of 3-2-3. It's consistently good where 6-2 is great when it works but it often doesn't. 
I'm still undecided on half centres as I'm struggling to get decent times but I'm sure it's good when used properly. There isn't enough about it on YouTube and I don't have time to figure it out. I've done one 4x4 solve today with a 7 hour break between L4C and last cross edge.


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## tiramisu (May 7, 2016)

h2f said:


> Hi man. If you want to get into 3bld look at Noah's tutorial on Cubing World


Thanks will do.


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## h2f (May 8, 2016)

I've finished ao100 on 6x6. It took me 15 days. I did more than 100 solves - some in car waiting for wife, some in garden etc. I need to work 5x5 to get better with Hoya and some cases on last four edges.



Spoiler



Generated By csTimer on 2016-5-8
solves/total: 100/100

single
best: 5:40.75
worst: 9:12.82

mean of 3
current: 6:12.49 (σ = 23.03)
best: 5:44.93 (σ = 4.73)

avg of 5
current: 6:13.40 (σ = 6.27)
best: 5:57.49 (σ = 19.67)

avg of 12
current: 6:18.55 (σ = 14.15)
best: 6:10.41 (σ = 19.17)

avg of 50
current: 6:32.76 (σ = 23.15)
best: 6:32.76 (σ = 23.15)

avg of 100
current: 6:55.08 (σ = 30.90)
best: 6:55.08 (σ = 30.90)

Average: 6:55.08 (σ = 30.90)
Mean: 6:56.65

Time List:
7:20.37, 8:08.70, 7:35.34, 7:19.39, 7:40.13, 8:36.73, 7:06.52, 6:47.02, 7:27.02, 7:47.75, 7:40.24, 7:35.56, 9:00.54, 7:04.02, 7:54.29, 7:31.08, 9:12.82, 7:23.81, 7:11.00, 7:04.69, 8:03.27, 7:34.29, 7:21.23, 6:19.34, 8:11.79, 7:21.67, 6:41.73, 7:29.98, 6:56.44, 6:31.84, 7:18.57, 6:37.59, 8:10.61, 7:05.34, 6:52.15, 7:16.02, 6:50.51, 7:43.58, 7:22.10, 6:41.48, 6:24.14, 6:55.45, 7:30.57, 6:55.44, 6:23.09, 7:22.72, 7:15.00, 6:36.14, 6:27.60, 6:48.47, 6:51.40, 6:29.66, 6:01.83, 6:43.59, 7:38.71, 6:32.04, 6:38.79, 7:09.72, 6:52.98, 6:50.00, 6:27.86, 6:22.86, 6:30.47, 6:47.36, 6:32.04, 6:17.69, 7:26.21, 6:26.46, 7:04.51, 7:38.28, 6:29.95, 7:10.53, 6:36.30, 6:45.89, 6:35.78, 6:59.66, 5:52.78, 6:01.79, 5:40.75, 6:42.15, 6:38.27, 7:00.60, 7:12.18, 6:24.26, 7:15.00, 5:42.36, 5:42.03, 5:50.38, 6:19.72, 6:24.05, 6:18.33, 6:27.68, 5:43.39, 6:37.49, 6:57.48, 6:13.74, 6:06.97, 5:46.77, 6:31.19, 6:19.49


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## One Wheel (May 8, 2016)

h2f said:


> I've finished ao100 on 6x6. It took me 15 days.



I just ordered my first 6x6. I'll get it Monday or Tuesday, then I think I'll be doing this. Your 6x6 times look remarkably similar to my current 5x5 times, so I'll probably be slower, but this is a good benchmark to beat.


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## h2f (May 8, 2016)

Yes. Doing 6x6 helps 5x5 and vice versa - there are similar stages like pairing last four edges or building cross edges with Hoya. And I've finished ao100 with Roux CN and full CMLL - 29.23. In a last 20 solves there was a remarkable progress.


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## muchacho (May 8, 2016)

How many algs have you learned (or relearned) since you are practicing Roux again?

I have a 7x7 but not a 6x6, I am scared of pops since I saw Selkie's video.


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## h2f (May 8, 2016)

Let's count. I knew all basics algs plus niklas, antiniklas d2, d3, d4, b2, c4, h4 (it's obvious) e3, e5, e1, f1, f3 = 19. 42 - 19 = 23. But this is not exact number though I had to relearn recognition patterns. I remembered only few no more than 10. It was relearning process so it came quickly - usually I need much more time to learn new things. Still few algs are hard to execute and recognize, for example I need few seconds to recon what case of T shape there is. In next week I'm gonna to focus on SB special cases.


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## muchacho (May 8, 2016)

That's fast even if you knew them before.


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## mark49152 (May 8, 2016)

h2f said:


> Yes. Doing 6x6 helps 5x5 and vice versa


I agree with that in theory, but my personal experience is different. 5x5 helps 4x4 helps 3x3 for sure, but I find 6x6 different because it's a bigger and clumsier cube to handle. I cannot turn as fast and have to take much more care not to misalign it. Then when I go back to 5x5 I find I'm not pushing speed as much because I've adapted to slower turning.

Perhaps with a lot more practice it might be different though.


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## h2f (May 8, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> I agree with that in theory, but my personal experience is different. 5x5 helps 4x4 helps 3x3 for sure, but I find 6x6 different because it's a bigger and clumsier cube to handle. I cannot turn as fast and have to take much more care not to misalign it. Then when I go back to 5x5 I find I'm not pushing speed as much because I've adapted to slower turning.
> 
> Perhaps with a lot more practice it might be different though.


I think we both may have right - my times in 5x5 are a little better though I've done 120 solves in last four months and it's the same number I've done on 6x6 in last 2 weeks. For example I've done pb on 5x5. I think it helps due to fact that doing 6x6 makes you familiar with stages of solves on 5x5. Of course if you do it with the same method.


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## mark49152 (May 8, 2016)

h2f said:


> I think it helps due to fact that doing 6x6 makes you familiar with stages of solves on 5x5.


Yeah undoubtedly if you're still learning on both, whichever you practise first helps the second. My comment was about the situation where you're familiar and competent with both, and just trying to get faster.

Of course with 6x6 there's more going on and that combined with the more awkward cube does create the feeling that 5x5 is simpler and easier when you go back to it. That sometimes helps too.


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## h2f (May 8, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> Of course with 6x6 there's more going on and that combined with the more awkward cube does create the feeling that 5x5 is simpler and easier when you go back to it. That sometimes helps too.



Yeah. I've noticed that some experienced cubers solve 4x4 or 5x5 before their attempt on 3x3.


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## newtonbase (May 8, 2016)

h2f said:


> Yeah. I've noticed that some experienced cubers solve 4x4 or 5x5 before their attempt on 3x3.


Yes. It's common to see people bring big cubes to the solving table when competing in 3x3. I've always thought it's like playing snooker to warm up for pool.


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## mafergut (May 8, 2016)

I would prefer to warm-up with exactly whatever I'm going to compete on. It takes a while for me to adapt from let's say 4x4 to 3x3 turning. I'd even prefer to have two identical cubes if possible. That's also the reason I have decided to change my training regime and try to stick for a couple of weeks at least to the same event.

For now it looks like it's working. After 1 month I finally beat my 4x4 Ao5 and Ao12. I'm sure the change to 3-2-3 pairing plays a role too. New Ao5 PB 1:27.xx (was 1:30) and Ao12 1:35.xx (was 1:37). Did an Ao25 today for an overall average of 1:37.xx. Taking into account that I've been failing the 4x4 race thread to sub 1:45 for three weeks in a row it looks promising for next week.

Also, by the way, I think I'm gonna change 3x3 main from Tanglong to Yuexiao. After solving for some time with the Yuexiao now my Tanglong feels so heavy to turn... Only issue with Yuexiao is the catches of the corner points agains centers now and then. Maybe I should file them off a bit as @MarcelP suggested.


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## Jason Green (May 8, 2016)

It seems like the only time I notice corners catching on my Yuexiao are on the A perms. I still really like it overall though!


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## mafergut (May 8, 2016)

Jason Green said:


> It seems like the only time I notice corners catching on my Yuexiao are on the A perms. I still really like it overall though!


When I seem to notice it more is when trying to do an F' by pushing up on DFR with my right thumb and I have the R face a bit misaligned forward (in clockwise direction. Then the UFR corner catches on the U center. For example at the end of a T-perm if I don't do a complete R' before the final F.

By the way, I finished a full Ao50 (probably the 1st time I do a 4x4 Ao50 in one sitting). Got a 1:39.xx average. Not bad but still a long way to go until I get close to 4 times my global 3x3 average, which would be around 1:20.


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## h2f (May 8, 2016)

Sorry for kind of accomplishment but I've made pbs twice doing scrambles for weekly comp on fb group. First 18.15 with LSE skip (I've messed during SB) and next 16.22 full step. Reconstruction:
F R2 B R2 F2 L2 R2 F' U2 L D2 F D' L' R F R D2 B2
z y'
u' F2 u U' L' U' L U L' U' L//I did like f2l because I was sure it will preserve edge and pair on right
R' U2 R U' r U r' U' R' U' R U' R' U r//
U U' R U R' U' R' F R F'
M' U2 M U2 M' U M U' M' U2 M U M2 U
alg.cubing.net
50stm/16.22 = 3,08 TPS

Finally a decent solve


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## mafergut (May 8, 2016)

h2f said:


> Sorry for kind of accomplishment but I've made pbs twice doing scrambles for weekly comp on fb group. First 18.15 with LSE skip (I've messed during SB) and next 16.22 full step. Reconstruction:
> F R2 B R2 F2 L2 R2 F' U2 L D2 F D' L' R F R D2 B2
> z y'
> u' F2 u U' L' U' L U L' U' L//I did like f2l because I was sure it will preserve edge and pair on right
> ...


Nice! So you are now doing the weekly comp solves with Roux? Wow! I have to confess that even though I'm trying to become full CN at 3x3 CFOP for the weekly comp I revert to white & yello to get better times. I shouldn't care that much 

A piece of trivia. I gave you your hundredth like just a minute ago. Congratulations! I think you beat @mark49152 by just two  You are one of the most liked fellas in this thread


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## muchacho (May 8, 2016)

Very nice, congrats!

18.61 F R2 B R2 F2 L2 R2 F' U2 L D2 F D' L' R F R D2 B2
y
R Rw2 Uw' F' R' U Rw F'


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## h2f (May 8, 2016)

mafergut said:


> Nice! So you are now doing the weekly comp solves with Roux? Wow! I have to confess that even though I'm trying to become full CN at 3x3 CFOP for the weekly comp I revert to white & yello to get better times. I shouldn't care that much
> 
> A piece of trivia. I gave you your hundredth like just a minute ago. Congratulations! I think you beat @mark49152 by just two  You are one of the most liked fellas in this thread



Thank you for kind words, I didnt notice the number of likes...  I think every fella in this thread deserve many likes.

Yes, I'm trying to be CN in every solve but when it matters i stick with blue/green and white on bottom. In this case it was worth to take green on bottom and take a risk messing SB.

Edit: your FB is very nice.


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## muchacho (May 8, 2016)

Short but not that nice, probably y Rw' M Uw' U2 F L' U L or y Rw' M Uw' U2 F Rw' F could have been faster. I knew where the pieces of the second pair were going to be but was not sure how to pair them in inspection.


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## JanW (May 8, 2016)

Took the next step towards a ZZ transition today and learned 2-look PLL. Only 3 new algs, since I already use U, Z and H perm. I really like the A perms! Fast and easy to recognize, even with edges not in place. I wish I had learned them sooner. They would have been of great help every time I misread the corner positions, which happens a bit too often in my CPEOLL solves...

I think most people in this thread have went through the process of learning full PLL. Is it just a matter starting with 2-look PLL and adding more algs at whatever pace feels comfortable, or?

I notice 2-look OLL is also taught with some different algs for corner orientation than those I'm used to. (Mine preserve corner positions.) Looks like they are the most popular on algdb for those OLL cases, so I'd better give them a chance as well.


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## Jason Green (May 8, 2016)

Yes I learned full PLL and OLL pretty much at whatever place I felt comfortable. I think I went through PLL pretty quick. I delayed even starting OLL because it seemed overwhelming and I was focusing more on look ahead. One thing I would do different is dig through algdb and try them all to see which alg for each case feels best. I did that for a couple of OLLs but for the most part learned all from badmephisto's cheat sheets.

Edit: Normally I would learn two at a time, sometimes more sometimes only one. I tried doing all the G perms at once and they really messed with me for a few days.


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## JanW (May 8, 2016)

Thanks Jason! I remember reading about people having problems with G perms. Could it make sense to start by learning those, before I'm confused by lots of other algs, and to give them more time to sink in? Or is it better to start with those that are easiest to recognize?


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## Jason Green (May 8, 2016)

JanW said:


> Thanks Jason! I remember reading about people having problems with G perms. Could it make sense to start by learning those, before I'm confused by lots of other algs, and to give them more time to sink in? Or is it better to start with those that are easiest to recognize?


I could see either way. For most people I think I would pick cases that have a high probability of occurring that look easy. To get momentum kind of. However if you knocked those out you might think it's all down hill from there.  Of course for some people those might not be the hardest so...

It's not that they're that bad really. For me they were at the end and I was anxious to finish, and doing 4 at once was the bad idea. They are similar so I thought it'd be easy. But instead I would mix the turns from different cases a lot and that's where my struggle was, keeping them all straight start to end.


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## h2f (May 8, 2016)

If I remeber it good G perms have the most probablity to occur. But for beginner I think they are awkward and hard to recognize it well. Maybe I'm wrong. Gperms are the algs I was working the most. I think @JanW you should start with J's and T and F - they are similiar. But it's just an opinion - any order is good if it leads you to knowing them all.


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## Jason Green (May 8, 2016)

There are quite a few that are 1 in 18, including the G's. At least according to the cheat sheet which I assume is correct, I never tried to do the math. 
http://badmephisto.com/badmephisto-speedcubing-method.pdf


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## One Wheel (May 8, 2016)

G perms are the ones I've found most helpful to mirror, and the ones I'm most likely to make a mistake in executing. I just remember one with a bar on the side and headlights on the opposite side, and another with a bar in front and headlights on the opposite side, and the first move for either alg starts with the bar.


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## Jason Green (May 9, 2016)

I have a question for all the sub 20ers, or everyone really. How many "special F2L" algs do you use. Like if you watch Chris Olson's advanced F2L videos he has many different ways to do lots of cases from different angles and such. I pretty much do each case in the same way with rotations if needed, which I know is bad. 

For those of you that do use them do you have any tips on how to start? When I learned full OLL and PLL I would drill them until I learned them well, and then wait for them to come up in solves which was really fun. I guess it just feels like if I learn some of these they will show up so rarely I'll forget. Or maybe it's just the fact that there are an infinite number that messes with my head. 

Perhaps WV would be more worthwhile.  But quit trying to change the topic Jason.


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## muchacho (May 9, 2016)

@JanW You can leave the hardest algs (or recognition cases) for the last and start with the easiest ones or those that will make you improve more (if that's a thing in PLL/OLL).


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## newtonbase (May 9, 2016)

The thing with G-perms is that although they can be a bit tricky, once you know one then the others are mirrors and inverses so they are much easier to learn. eg when practising you can execute Ga on a solved cube to bring up the Gb case and just keep drilling them one after the other. You have 2 chances in 9 of needing one of them so they are important. I use Bob Burton's algs.


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## mark49152 (May 9, 2016)

JanW said:


> Thanks Jason! I remember reading about people having problems with G perms. Could it make sense to start by learning those, before I'm confused by lots of other algs, and to give them more time to sink in? Or is it better to start with those that are easiest to recognize?


G perms are not that bad. They are similar so good to learn together, and almost a quarter of solves end in one so it's silly to leave them out. I would say learn them earlier but not first - J, T, R, F are easier to start with and will get you some practice in learning new algs ready for the G4 challenge .


Jason Green said:


> I have a question for all the sub 20ers, or everyone really. How many "special F2L" algs do you use. Like if you watch Chris Olson's advanced F2L videos he has many different ways to do lots of cases from different angles and such.


IMHO it's more important to be able to solve comfortably at every slot, using intuitive sequences that you are 100% comfortable in mirroring left/right and front/back. Also be able to adapt them, like set up a pair by extracting from one slot, but insert it to another. And be able to solve any case blind while you lookahead to track the next. All that's the foundation of F2L. Really fast guys learn shortcuts because there's nowhere else to go, but for less experienced cubers I suspect it would distract from core F2L skills.


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## JanW (May 9, 2016)

Thanks all for the very helpful replies!

I had a look at that badmephisto sheet. Most cases seem to have some distinct qualities that make them easy to uniquely identify, but recognition of G perms indeed seems a bit awkward. Also looks like they are easy to confuse with R perms. From what I see both R and G perms have headlights and one pair. Difference is that in the R perm one corner is part of both the headlights and the pair. In other words, headlights towards me, if the pair is also towards me on either side, it's R perm. Which side the pair is on determines which R perm. If the pair is in any other position relative to headlights, it's G perm. Am I on the right track here?


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## h2f (May 9, 2016)

Every Gperm has headlights and a bar not connected with heads. In R perms bar and headlights are connected. The other thing is that: Gb and Gd has heads with opposite colors and bar and heads are on opposite side. Ga and Gc has them made of adjacent color and bar and heads are on adjacent sides but not connected. The other thing wit Ga and Gc is that on the opposite side of the bar there's same sticker.


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## Shaky Hands (May 9, 2016)

From memory, I learned PLL in this order:

Aa, Ua, Ub, H, Z, E, T, F, Jb, Ja, Y, Ab, Ra, Rb, V, Ga, Gb, Gc, Gd, Na, Nb.

If I did it again, I'd probably learn Y before E as I think it's an easier alg for 2-look PLL. Also because it comes up more often and it's useful for BLD. N-perms can be done by using the J-perms with setup moves before and after, so weren't as difficult as I was expecting.

For those who were wondering about probability, all are 1 in 18 except E/H/Z (1 in 36 each) and Na/Nb (1 in 72 each).

I still need to improve my A-perms and U-perms to better algs. Some day.


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## mafergut (May 9, 2016)

JanW said:


> Thanks all for the very helpful replies!
> 
> I had a look at that badmephisto sheet. Most cases seem to have some distinct qualities that make them easy to uniquely identify, but recognition of G perms indeed seems a bit awkward. Also looks like they are easy to confuse with R perms. From what I see both R and G perms have headlights and one pair. Difference is that in the R perm one corner is part of both the headlights and the pair. In other words, headlights towards me, if the pair is also towards me on either side, it's R perm. Which side the pair is on determines which R perm. If the pair is in any other position relative to headlights, it's G perm. Am I on the right track here?


Correct! G-perms have headlights and a non-adjacent 2-bar. You put the headlight on the left and the 2-bar can be either at front right, back right, right front or right back. The 1st two cases are front/back mirrors of each other and the other two are inverses of those. I learned them all at the same time with these guidelines.

For the cases with the bar on right I got the nmenonic of getting the corner of the bar from top to bottom, hence if the bar is on right front I start R U R' and if the bar is on right back I start R' U' R and from there the rest of the alg comes from muscle memory but when I was learning them I also took note of the fact that after the R U R' y R2 there was a 2x1 block on the right of U that reminded me of which direction to do the first Uw, which is, bring the corner that is not in the block towards the corner in the block, hence for the 1st case it's Uw. For the 2nd pair of Gs, with bar on front or back right I just thought of starting in the direction from bar to headlights, so, for bar on front, after R2 it goes Uw. Hope it helps.

Of course, Chris Olson would tell you that there are faster G-perms out there but I still use those algs.


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## mark49152 (May 9, 2016)

JanW said:


> Am I on the right track here?


Yes, and @h2f nailed it, but I would add that recognition angle helps. For my algs, the headlights are always on the left. Then the G perms are the cases with a bar at front right, back right, and on the right hand side towards the front or back. Because my algs are mirrors and inverses, there are patterns that correspond to these cases - front right and back right have a similar sequence but are mirrored, and the side cases are the inverses of those sequences but also mirrored. I recall the algs by association of their starting move patterns with the case patterns.


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## mafergut (May 9, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> Yes, and @h2f nailed it, but I would add that recognition angle helps. For my algs, the headlights are always on the left. Then the G perms are the cases with a bar at front right, back right, and on the right hand side towards the front or back. Because my algs are mirrors and inverses, there are patterns that correspond to these cases - front right and back right have a similar sequence but are mirrored, and the side cases are the inverses of those sequences but also mirrored. I recall the algs by association of their starting move patterns with the case patterns.


It looks like we used the same techniques to remember those pesky G-perms!

Also @Shaky Hands: The probabilities of the different permutations can be intuitively inferred from the rotational symmetry so, all the ones that look different if rotated a U, U2, U' have 4 cases and hence 4 times the chance, like T, J, V, A, U... the ones that look the same with a U2, like E or Z have just 2 times the chance and the ones that look exactly the same in the 4 rotations have just 1 time the chance (which is 1/72, as you very well point out). So right now I'm confused because, by this rule, I would say H-perm would be just 1/72 and not 1/36 but I must be wrong because 16*4 = 64 so there must be 3 others with 2 chances and 2 with just 1 to add up to 72 ... but then again, maybe not, because there's also the solved case, which is also 1/72... or is it?


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## mark49152 (May 9, 2016)

mafergut said:


> It looks like we used the same techniques to remember those pesky G-perms!


Yes you ninja'ed me there .

And I think you are correct that H perm is 1/72.


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## JanW (May 9, 2016)

Great tips everyone!

I did try out some Old Pochmann about 6 months ago and learned the Y perm then. I've forgotten it by now, but it should be easier to relearn, so I'll add that pretty soon. I also at one point used one of the J perms for parity, but this was at a different angle. I'll have to consider if I use the same algorithm I used back then, or if I learn it at a new angle.

Overall, it seems some AUF moves are required to recognize these, at least at first. Or I need to turn the cube to look at back faces as well. Is it even technically possible to identify all cases by looking at only 2 faces? The U, Z and H perms I can already identify from any 2 faces, but those are special cases.


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## Shaky Hands (May 9, 2016)

mafergut said:


> Also @Shaky Hands: The probabilities of the different permutations can be intuitively inferred from the rotational symmetry so, all the ones that look different if rotated a U, U2, U' have 4 cases and hence 4 times the chance, like T, J, V, A, U... the ones that look the same with a U2, like E or Z have just 2 times the chance and the ones that look exactly the same in the 4 rotations have just 1 time the chance (which is 1/72, as you very well point out). So right now I'm confused because, by this rule, I would say H-perm would be just 1/72 and not 1/36 but I must be wrong because 16*4 = 64 so there must be 3 others with 2 chances and 2 with just 1 to add up to 72 ... but then again, maybe not, because there's also the solved case, which is also 1/72... or is it?



My mistake. H is 1/72 and solved is 1/72.

So:
8/72 Aa/Ab
2/72 E
4/72 F
16/72 Ga/Gb/Gc/Gd
1/72 H
8/72 Ja/Jb
2/72 Na/Nb
8/72 Ra/Rb
4/72 T
8/72 Ua/Ub
4/72 V
4/72 Y
2/72 Z
1/72 Solved

TOTAL = 72/72 or 100%


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## mafergut (May 9, 2016)

JanW said:


> Great tips everyone!
> 
> I did try out some Old Pochmann about 6 months ago and learned the Y perm then. I've forgotten it by now, but it should be easier to relearn, so I'll add that pretty soon. I also at one point used one of the J perms for parity, but this was at a different angle. I'll have to consider if I use the same algorithm I used back then, or if I learn it at a new angle.
> 
> Overall, it seems some AUF moves are required to recognize these, at least at first. Or I need to turn the cube to look at back faces as well. Is it even technically possible to identify all cases by looking at only 2 faces? The U, Z and H perms I can already identify from any 2 faces, but those are special cases.


@mark49152 has the best guide there is for 2-sided pll recognition:
https://www.speedsolving.com/forum/threads/two-sided-pll-recognition-guide.41108/


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## Logiqx (May 9, 2016)

@Jason Green: What Mark said plus look for opportunities to use empty slots. This can sometimes avoid the need for unnecessary rotations and also look out for cases where the edge is correctly oriented but you feel the need to rotate. The "intuitive" approach for a few of these cases is to rotate, set up, rotate, insert whereas there are some fast 11-move RU solutions and/or 7 move RUF solutions without rotations.

Once you've mastered all of what Mark has said and use empty slots effectively you can start looking at how to avoid rotations for the cases where the edge is badly oriented (e.g. RUF algs). Beyond that you can also look how to solve straight from one slot to another which on occasions can be as few as 5 moves. I didn't really use many fancy tricks until I was averaging sub-20 but I think I have a couple of dozen tricks that I use nowadays.


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## Lid (May 9, 2016)

I don't remember much from when I was learning OLl/PLL back in 2007, but I know that the 4 Gperms was the last ones. I use the ones where the headlights are on the left for all cases (see my webpage).

Square-1 news ..: got my first sub15 a5 today: 14.535, (14.042), 14.744, (22.032[p]), 15.432 = 14.904


Spoiler: Scambles



Average of 5: 14.904
1. 14.535 (1, 0) / (-1, -4) / (0, -3) / (1, -2) / (-4, -4) / (3, 0) / (1, 0) / (-3, 0) / (3, 0) / (-3, 0) / (0, -3) / (5, -2) / (-2, -4)
2. (14.042) (0, 2) / (-5, -5) / (5, -4) / (4, -2) / (-1, 0) / (-3, 0) / (-2, -1) / (2, 0) / (3, -2) / (-4, -4) / (-2, 0) / (-2, 0) /
3. 14.744 (1, 0) / (-1, -1) / (-2, -2) / (-4, -1) / (6, 0) / (-3, 0) / (0, -2) / (3, 0) / (-5, -3) / (-4, 0) / (-2, -5) / (-4, -4)
4. (22.032[p]) (4, 0) / (3, 0) / (0, -3) / (5, -4) / (1, -2) / (5, -4) / (0, -2) / (-3, 0) / (-2, 0) / (0, -4) / (-2, -5) / (2, 0) / (0, -2)
5. 15.432 (-3, -4) / (1, -2) / (6, 0) / (-1, -4) / (0, -3) / (1, 0) / (3, 0) / (-3, 0) / (-1, -5) / (3, 0) / (1, -4) / (-2, 0) / (6, 0)



Gigaminx, new PB 16:29
I have changed the order I solve it in.
So now it's
1: first 6 centers.
2: crossedges
3: F2L pairs
4: last 6 centers
5: the 2 red edges then the 3 S2L pairs.
6: 2x (edge + 2 S2L pairs)
7: last 9 edges
8: 2nd to last face
9: LL!
Many steps ... but it's a big puzzle


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## muchacho (May 10, 2016)

2x2 PB single: 2.360 (it was 2.479 from 12-sep)

scramble:
R F R' U2 R



Spoiler: solution



x2
R' U2 R U' R'

https://alg.cubing.net/?setup=R_F_R-_U2_R&puzzle=2x2x2&alg=x2_
R-_U2_R_U-_R-

I did not 1-look it, it was just pure luck on an easy scramble.


----------



## mafergut (May 10, 2016)

muchacho said:


> 2x2 PB single: 2.360 (it was 2.479 from 12-sep)
> 
> scramble:
> R F R' U2 R
> ...


My first idea was to try for red face but even on white face I did not see the OLL skip, I would usually make a face like that as R' U y L' U' L or F' U L' U' L which leads to a bad OLL in this case. Well done!

By the way, yesterday I finished a 4x4 Ao100 (done in two days). I got 1:38.xx with a best Ao12 of 1:33.80. I think 3-2-3 pairing has already sunk in. As predicted much more regular times, no super good ones, almost no bad ones either.



Spoiler: Time distribution



1:15+: XX 2
1:20+: XXXXXXXXX 9
1:25+: XXXXXXXXXXX 11
1:30+: XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX 18
1:35+: XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX 16
1:40+: XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX 17
1:45+: XXXXXXXXXXX 11
1:50+: XXXXX 5
1:55+: XXX 3
2:00+: XXXX 4
2:05+: 0
2:10+: X 1
2:15+: X 1


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## muchacho (May 10, 2016)

Nice times. I'm getting closer to 2:00 on 4x4, once there I'll start using a better pairing (still doing 1 at a time, or 2 with that flipping alg).

edit:
Ao5 PB on 3x3: 19.503

Not a great improvement (it was 19.553) but it's the first PB since changing colors and cube, and also a few solves later just 0.2 away from ao12 PB with 5 sub-20 solves, I'm getting closer to my times (still like 1-1,5 seconds away).



Spoiler



16944 10-may-2016 10:58:32 00:19.704 R2 D R2 D' B2 R2 B2 R2 D2 F2 D B R B' U F2 U2 R U R2 B' U2
16943 10-may-2016 10:57:48 00:18.927 L2 U2 F2 U R2 F2 U' F2 U R2 U2 B R' U B' U2 R' L D2 U L' U'
16942 10-may-2016 10:56:55 00:28.926 R2 B2 D' F2 D R2 B2 R2 U' R2 D' L' U2 F2 L' B' F R' L2 D' U'
16941 10-may-2016 10:56:10 00:19.880 D' L2 D L2 U L2 B2 F2 U B2 D2 L' D L B L' B2 R' L' D' B2
16940 10-may-2016 10:55:09 00:17.902 F2 D R2 D' F2 L2 U' R2 B2 U' F2 L' R2 D' B L2 B2 D2 B' L2



edit2:
Ao12 PB: 21.308 (was 21.380)



Spoiler



16967 10-may-2016 11:59:30 00:18.888 U2 R2 U R2 U' F2 D F2 L2 B2 D2 L' F' U' R' F U' B2 R B' D2 U2
16966 10-may-2016 11:58:39 00:22.440 F2 R2 B2 D' B2 F2 U2 R2 D' B2 L F' R L2 D2 L B2 L F2 L2 D'
16965 10-may-2016 11:57:44 00:20.216 B2 U' B2 U2 F2 D' F2 L2 D' R2 B2 L' B' F' D' R' B U2 L' F R2 U'
16964 10-may-2016 11:56:35 00:23.326 D2 B2 D R2 D2 R2 L2 B2 R2 L2 U F U' L' U2 R2 B L2 F' R' F U'
16963 10-may-2016 11:55:51 00:18.095 B2 U L2 U' B2 L2 B2 D U R2 D B R' D' U2 B U' F' D B U2 L
16962 10-may-2016 11:55:06 00:21.831 B2 F2 U2 R2 D' R2 L2 D R2 F2 U2 B U R2 B F R' U L' B D
16961 10-may-2016 11:54:24 00:18.206 B2 D L2 F2 U2 F2 D B2 D' R2 L2 B L' B' F' D' U B' U' B' L'
16960 10-may-2016 11:53:32 00:25.350 F2 R2 F2 U L2 D L2 B2 L2 D U F' R D L' D L D2 U' L D'
16959 10-may-2016 11:52:18 00:21.470 R2 B2 D2 L2 D L2 F2 D' L2 D2 U' L B' L' F' D R' B F2 U2 B2 L2
16958 10-may-2016 11:51:33 00:19.928 B2 R2 F2 U B2 L2 F2 L2 D2 U' R2 B' R' D F' U F L U
16957 10-may-2016 11:50:41 00:29.094 D2 B2 U' L2 B2 F2 U L2 B2 F2 U R U F' L' U R D' F' U2 L U2
16956 10-may-2016 11:49:53 00:21.432 B2 F2 D2 R2 D R2 B2 R2 D' F2 D' F' D2 F' D L F2 D B2 D2 B


----------



## h2f (May 10, 2016)

@muchacho @mafergut Nice times and congrats.


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## sqAree (May 10, 2016)

mafergut said:


> By the way, yesterday I finished a 4x4 Ao100 (done in two days). I got 1:38.xx with a best Ao12 of 1:33.80. I think 3-2-3 pairing has already sunk in. As predicted much more regular times, no super good ones, almost no bad ones either.



Oh how did you manage to overtake me sneakily!
My best ao50 is still around 1:43. Maybe I should consider switching to 3-2-3 as well.


----------



## earth2dan (May 10, 2016)

mafergut said:


> When I seem to notice it more is when trying to do an F' by pushing up on DFR with my right thumb and I have the R face a bit misaligned forward (in clockwise direction. Then the UFR corner catches on the U center. For example at the end of a T-perm if I don't do a complete R' before the final F.


This exactly was my single biggest problem with the YueXiao when I first starting solving with it, F' with right thumb catches. I dropped the YueXiao for a while but was playing with it again over the weekend and found that if I slowed down a bit and focused on cleaner turning I was getting better times overall and it felt really good with minimal catching. I'm stuck in this limbo of having 4 or 5 different 3x3's and I can't pick a main out of them. I just keep bouncing around...



JanW said:


> I think most people in this thread have went through the process of learning full PLL. Is it just a matter starting with 2-look PLL and adding more algs at whatever pace feels comfortable, or?
> 
> I notice 2-look OLL is also taught with some different algs for corner orientation than those I'm used to. (Mine preserve corner positions.) Looks like they are the most popular on algdb for those OLL cases, so I'd better give them a chance as well.


I was 2-Look PLL for quite a while, but then when I decided to learn full PLL I brute force memorized all but the G and N perms over the course a few days with lots and lots of drilling. Then I took my time learning the G perms 2 at a time (the ones that set each other up, so I could drill back and forth). And lastly the N perms. Chris Olsen has a great "Like a Pro" series of videos on how he executes his PLL's. I don't like some of his algs, but some are fantastic finger tricky algs that I have learned and really like.

I know only about half my OLL's now. And I'm very slowly learning more cases at a comfortable pace. The cost/benefit of learning more OLL's is not nearly as good as learning the PLL's was for me.



Jason Green said:


> I have a question for all the sub 20ers, or everyone really. How many "special F2L" algs do you use. Like if you watch Chris Olson's advanced F2L videos he has many different ways to do lots of cases from different angles and such. I pretty much do each case in the same way with rotations if needed, which I know is bad.
> 
> For those of you that do use them do you have any tips on how to start? When I learned full OLL and PLL I would drill them until I learned them well, and then wait for them to come up in solves which was really fun. I guess it just feels like if I learn some of these they will show up so rarely I'll forget. Or maybe it's just the fact that there are an infinite number that messes with my head.
> 
> Perhaps WV would be more worthwhile.  But quit trying to change the topic Jason.


I definitely have adopted a few of Chris's F2L algs. The way I practiced them was to just creatively find ways to set up the F2L case, and then execute the alg. It's no different really than drilling any other alg, just takes a bit more time to set up. Though, I think the process of setting up the F2L cases is very beneficial too, just for your spacial awareness and overall understanding of the puzzle.

In timed solves, if I encountered a case that I know I'm learning a new alg for I would just scratch the solve and take my time to work through that case (unless, of course, it's a competition solve. Then I'm on autopilot  )


----------



## mafergut (May 10, 2016)

@earth2dan: Nice to see you again with your account restored, Canadian flag and everything


----------



## CLL Smooth (May 10, 2016)

I guess this thread is no longer Marcel's introduction thread. Sad to see the name change. I remember this thread from its inception. I never contributed to it but it was on the front page nearly everyday so I kept up with it pretty well. 
Glad to see the thread still going strong but I will miss seeing the old name.


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## mark49152 (May 10, 2016)

CLL Smooth said:


> Glad to see the thread still going strong but I will miss seeing the old name.


Yeah that's sad, but at least it still has Marcel's avatar, as a figurehead for older cubers .


----------



## SenorJuan (May 10, 2016)

Maybe the thread needs a new title (again).
Marcel's Mature Cubers Chat
......Senior Solvers Thread

I guess using the term 'Master' (like in golf, tennis etc) isn't going to work in the cubing sense. I'm old, but I'm not ready to call myself a Master Solver, hehe.

Marcel's Speed Solving Masters


----------



## earth2dan (May 10, 2016)

SenorJuan said:


> Maybe the thread needs a new title (again).
> Marcel's Mature Cubers Chat
> ......Senior Solvers Thread
> 
> I guess using the term 'Master' (like in golf, tennis etc) isn't going to work in the cubing sense. I'm old, but I'm not ready to call myself a Master Solver, hehe.



"CFOP: Cubing For Old People" . Not taking credit for that idea. That's all @Jason Green


----------



## MarcelP (May 11, 2016)

CLL Smooth said:


> I guess this thread is no longer Marcel's introduction thread. Sad to see the name change. I remember this thread from its inception. I never contributed to it but it was on the front page nearly everyday so I kept up with it pretty well.
> Glad to see the thread still going strong but I will miss seeing the old name.


Thanks! with almost 300.000 views I think this topic interests more people than we think. I am glad the name has changed since it not about me but about the people who post here. I can change the title. I like the 'Cubing For Old People' title a lot. If no one disagrees I will update it.


----------



## muchacho (May 11, 2016)

I think I liked "Older cuber discussions" more, but I don't mind.


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## h2f (May 11, 2016)

MarcelP said:


> Thanks! with almost 300.000 views I think this topic interests more people than we think. I am glad the name has changed since it not about me but about the people who post here. I can change the title. I like the 'Cubing For Old People' title a lot. If no one disagrees I will update it.



I liked previous but I'll used to. You can add something like CFOP 2 in brackets or something. @Jason Green You've made a great name.


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## mark49152 (May 11, 2016)

muchacho said:


> I think I liked "Older cuber discussions" more, but I don't mind.


Yeah I liked "older cubers discussions". That is exactly what it is. Can't get a clearer title than that.


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## Logiqx (May 11, 2016)

Many us are older than the Rubik's cube itself.

I was born in 2 BC... 2 years before the cube.


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## muchacho (May 11, 2016)

New mo100 PB: 23.256 (it was 23.636 from 5 weeks ago)


----------



## Lid (May 11, 2016)

Posted this in the accomplishment thread yesterday: a100 *17.181* (93% sub20s) & a50 *16.784* (100% sub20s) both new PBs.

I don't do 3x3 a100 that often (say like 3-4 per year...), I just prefer to do more different puzzles than just a load of 3x3 

Atm I'm looking forward to the X-man megaminx & QiYi's new 5x5 (WuShuang) + the already released WeiPo, all in stickerless of cause 



Logiqx said:


> Many us are older than the Rubik's cube itself.
> 
> I was born in 2 BC... 2 years before the cube.


Me too (I guess...)


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## Jason Green (May 12, 2016)

Logiqx said:


> Many us are older than the Rubik's cube itself.
> 
> I was born in 2 BC... 2 years before the cube.


BC is awesome. I can't think of a good one for AD though.


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## h2f (May 12, 2016)

Silence here.

I had strange solve just a while ago, when drinking coffee. I would call it Roux/CFOP - during inspection i thought cross edges might be well placed after FB and it was. After FB I had to do only 2 f2l pairs. The thing is that some cases in Roux fit very well to f2l and these were the cases I got. Especially last one I've decided to do like f2l (triple sexy) cause it's the fastest way for me than taking it out, switching edge, inserting. And it finished like oll+pll. Time *18.79*.

F2 L' B2 R' U' R' F U' L R2 B' L2 B D2 F' B2 D2 R2 L2 F
y'
R F M2 B F2 //FB 5/5
R' U2 R U R' U2 R U R' U' R U R' U' R' U R U' R' U R U' R' U R //SB 25/30 very long but only R/U moves. It couldn't be longer 
U2 F' L F' L2 U L U L' U' L F2
U' R U R' F' R U R' U' R' F R2 U' R' U // 2-look cmll, 

alg.cubing.net
57stm/18.79 = 2.71 tps


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## muchacho (May 12, 2016)

Cool, and awesome that you found an XXCross.

Are you doing any CFOP solves (apart from this one) or only Roux since you "switched"?


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## h2f (May 12, 2016)

Thanks. Cfop only on big cubes but i did not notice my skill is down. transition from cross to f2l was the worst w part of my solves but as far as i dont build cross on big cubes it doesn't affect my solves. I think ill stay longer with roux.

patataj patataj patataj


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## mafergut (May 12, 2016)

I need to start thinking about a 1st impressions video already, as I have several new puzzles that I did not do an unboxing for but I want to show you guys. Today I received a stickerless Moyu WeiPo 2x2 (I have created a thread on the Puzzle Reviews forum) and, oh my! At long last a Moyu 2x2 that does not have those pesky internal catchings. It might even replace my Dayan, that's how good it feels but I will not know for sure until I do some Ao100s with it. Not sure it's better than the Dayan but it's surely better than anything else I had (CB, LingPo, Yuxin...). The bright shades are nice but I prefer the ones in my CB G4.

Regarding our age in BC terms. The Rubik's cube arrived to Spain or, at least, I got to know it, around 1982-1983, not sure if any of you has a more exact date. I immediately wanted one  So, I'm like 12 or 13 BC... if we take the official 1980 release date, then I'm just 10 BC, still... so old!


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## Logiqx (May 12, 2016)

@mafergut - I was stating my age relative to the invention of the Rubik's cube in 1974. I think the big craze hit the UK in 1980.


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## mafergut (May 12, 2016)

Logiqx said:


> @mafergut - I was stating my age relative to the invention of the Rubik's cube in 1974. I think the big craze hit the UK in 1980.


Ah, okay, then I'm a toddler, just 4 BC


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## h2f (May 12, 2016)

I'm in the exact same age as Rubik's cube.


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## MarcelP (May 12, 2016)

First Ao50 in weeks 


Spoiler: Not great and not bad



Generated By csTimer on 2016-5-12
solves/total: 50/50

single
best: *14.83*
worst: 25.91

mean of 3
current: 18.57 (σ = 3.24)
best: 17.44 (σ = 1.84)

avg of 5
current: 20.37 (σ = 0.13)
best: 17.69 (σ = 0.33)

avg of 12
current: 20.47 (σ = 1.84)
best: 18.20 (σ = 0.55)

avg of 50
current: 19.07 (σ = 1.26)
best: 19.07 (σ = 1.26)

Average: 19.07 (σ = 1.26)
Mean: 19.14
Cube AoLong V1 without a single corner twist


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## h2f (May 12, 2016)

Nice, Marcel. I have a white and black aolong and it was my main till I got thunderclap but I like still to solve on them.


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## Jason Green (May 12, 2016)

I'm the same age as the cube also. 

Good job Marcel! Can you remind me how soon you thought I'd be sub 20? It still feels so slow ever since I hit 23. Maybe partly because I practice more than just 3x3 now, although everyone seems to say that helps.

I am going to try to catch a sub 20 ao5 on film soon, I'm having them more often maybe once a day if I do a decent number of solves.


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## MarcelP (May 13, 2016)

Jason Green said:


> Good job Marcel! Can you remind me how soon you thought I'd be sub 20? It still feels so slow ever since I hit 23.



Because of plateau's does it feel like forever. But the fact is, in every plateau you will need to gain a specific skill before jumping to the next. For example, learning these F2L cases you always take 20 moves to do, or learning all AUF for all PLL's or learning to do blind cross including tracking 1st F2L pair in ALL cases. My guess is that you will brake the sub 20 barrier soon (within months) and complain why it takes so long to brake that sub 16 barrier LOL.

EDIT: I had a huge PB single in 4X4 (1:08) in weekly contest 



h2f said:


> Nice, Marcel. I have a white and black aolong and it was my main till I got thunderclap but I like still to solve on them.


If they would make an AoLong V1 with adjusted corners (sharp corner point like Gans) to prevent cornertwists, then you would have the ultimate Cube. I think everybody would love that cube.


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## mafergut (May 13, 2016)

MarcelP said:


> Because of plateau's does it feel like forever. But the fact is, in every plateau you will need to gain a specific skill before jumping to the next. For example, learning these F2L cases you always take 20 moves to do, or learning all AUF for all PLL's or learning to do blind cross including tracking 1st F2L pair in ALL cases. My guess is that you will brake the sub 20 barrier soon (within months) and complain why it takes so long to brake that sub 16 barrier LOL.
> 
> EDIT: I had a huge PB single in 4X4 in weekly contest


Congrats! 1:08.01 beats my PB single by a lot! Mine is still 1:14.xx (in fact I have a couple 1:14.xx).

Regarding 3x3 progress and plateaus. My plateau is close to a year now. Maybe it's not a plateau but if there's some slope it is so small that I cannot even see it in my statistics. I had hoped I would be around 16-17 average by now but nope, I'm still around high 18 to mid 19. Also big cube (and other events like Mega, Pyra, Skewb, 2x2) take so much time that I seem to be getting worse at 3x3 instead of better. There are weeks were I don't even do the race to whatever (like e.g. the race to sub-20 full colour neutral) because I start to warm up before doing the race scrambles and I just can't get in the range, I mean, I start solving full cn and I cannot get into sub-20 territory, like maybe in half an hour. So I run out of time without ever doing the race scrambles, and that happens again the next day and so on. I might end up not even trying to time myself and just do untimed solves for fun. If that's the case I might go beyond WCA puzzles and devote more time to other things like ghost, mirror, etc. But I like the adrenaline rush of timed solving so much that I don't really think that will happen, but I'm so upset at times with the lack of progress that I'd throw the cube against the wall (just kidding but only slightly).


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## mark49152 (May 13, 2016)

MarcelP said:


> I had a huge PB single in 4X4 (1:08) in weekly contest


Congrats, great time! Now you can join the race to sub-1 



MarcelP said:


> If they would make an AoLong V1 with adjusted corners (sharp corner point like Gans) to prevent cornertwists, then you would have the ultimate Cube. I think everybody would love that cube.


I wonder if AoLong v1 edges/centres plus AoLong GT corners would work? I might try that tonight.



mafergut said:


> Regarding 3x3 progress and plateaus. My plateau is close to a year now. Maybe it's not a plateau but if there's some slope it is so small that I cannot even see it in my statistics. I had hoped I would be around 16-17 average by now but nope, I'm still around high 18 to mid 19.


Yeah I am around the same level and have also been on a plateau for about a year. I got fed up with lack of progress at 3x3 and moved on to other events. Now I rarely practise 3x3, but I'm not really getting worse at it either. Just becoming a better all-round cuber and enjoying other events just as much. One day I will go back to 3x3 once those other events have given me enough skills to make a leap forward at 3x3. Maybe once I am sub-1 at 4x4 and sub-2 at 5x5 .


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## muchacho (May 13, 2016)

Congrats Marcel!

Mo100 PB on 2x2: 7.495 (old one was 8.004 from almost 4 months ago, I really should practice more)

I thought solutions had to be longer than 4 moves for 2x2, but apparently 4 is fine, so I guess this single PB (lolscramble was U R F U, solution was y U' R' U' R') is legit.

Single PB: 1.897 (was 2.360 from 3 days ago)


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## mafergut (May 13, 2016)

@mark49152: Yeah, that's what I'm doing as well. Thanks to that I have improved a lot at 4x4 and learned to decently solve skewb, pyra, mega... As soon as I get to at least 1:30 average on 4x4 I will have to focus more on 5x5 and up. Not sure that all that will allow me to make a leap at 3x3, though, which is and will ever be my favorite event. Anyway, dreaming is free so, maybe, why not?

@muchacho: David, nice improvement at 2x2. Half a second improvement at 2x2 is huge progress!!! I'm liking my new WeiPo a lot. Will it become my new main? Only time will tell  Talking about mains, by the way, finally I could not deal with Yuexiao catching all over the place and went back to my well broken in Tanglong. It's heavier to turn, yeah, but at least it's very very smooth and does not catch. Still I'm suffering from a worsening in my 3x3 times. I hope it's temporary.

EDIT: New PB Ao12 at 4x4 including the 5 weekly comp solves. Got it down to 1:31.22. Sub-1:30 Ao12 is close


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## Jason Green (May 13, 2016)

MarcelP said:


> Because of plateau's does it feel like forever. But the fact is, in every plateau you will need to gain a specific skill before jumping to the next. For example, learning these F2L cases you always take 20 moves to do, or learning all AUF for all PLL's or learning to do blind cross including tracking 1st F2L pair in ALL cases. My guess is that you will brake the sub 20 barrier soon (within months) and complain why it takes so long to brake that sub 16 barrier LOL.
> 
> EDIT: I had a huge PB single in 4X4 (1:08) in weekly contest



Yeah, I still think my biggest area is to learn to look ahead more consistently. Some solves I feel like I can do it and I'm fine. Also more tricks for F2L cases help. Thanks, you always encourage me to make me feel better than I am. 

Awesome PB BTW!



mafergut said:


> ...There are weeks were I don't even do the race to whatever..



I miss the races a lot these days. Partly because the weather has been nice and I like to practice with a cigar and not at the computer.  Partly because I do not have any I am terribly motivated by.
- Racing to sub 10 in 2x2 - big whoop
- Sub 25 yellow cross only - maybe I should care more
- Racing to sub 20 - I care but I've never even had an ao12 under 20 so it's not realistic yet
- Racing to sub 2 (or was it 2:30) in 4x4 - actually I'm getting closer to that it might become my most exciting race for now! If I was doing 2:30 I should be there. 



mark49152 said:


> Now I rarely practise 3x3, but I'm not really getting worse at it either. Just becoming a better all-round cuber and enjoying other events just as much.



I wouldn't say I rarely practice, but compared to doing 100% 3x3 like I did for many months I relate to this quote too!


----------



## Isaac Lai (May 13, 2016)

Jason Green said:


> - Sub 25 yellow cross only - maybe I should care more


Don't do this. Just do whatever cross colour you see fit during inspection. This will be more effective and also force you to care more


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## Jason Green (May 13, 2016)

Isaac Lai said:


> Don't do this. Just do whatever cross colour you see fit during inspection. This will be more effective and also force you to care more


That would be more like race to sub 1:00 for me.


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## mafergut (May 13, 2016)

Isaac Lai said:


> Don't do this. Just do whatever cross colour you see fit during inspection. This will be more effective and also force you to care more


I have found that both types of practice help in the road to CFOP full color neutral. Doing only green cross, or blue cross, etc. and also just do whatever cross you see the best for the scramble, maybe avoiding the ones you regularly do (for me it would be anything but white or yellow).

As @Jason Green is trying to become dual CN white & yellow it makes a lot of sense for him to just practice yellow cross.


----------



## newtonbase (May 14, 2016)

Ordered a Weilong GTS. People seem excited about it and there's no bandwagon I won't jump on.


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## mafergut (May 14, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> Ordered a Weilong GTS. People seem excited about it and there's no bandwagon I won't jump on.


I was thinking about it, because I loved the smooth feeling of my Weilong v2 but I have bought so many 3x3s already that I told myself I would not buy any new ones. Now, after not being able to come to terms with the Yuexiao and finding my Tanglong a bit heavy to turn I am thinking twice about it. Of course I also have to try some others that were left aside without really breaking them in, like the Thunderclap, Tornado and Aolong v2, at least. Please, tell me what you think about it and I might consider buying one.

By the way, nice 4x4 PBs today while doing the race to sub-1:45. Finally sub 1:30 Ao12, 1:23 Ao5 and two, almost consecutive, singles: 1:13.xx and 1:10.91.

And really liking the WeiPo 2x2.


----------



## newtonbase (May 14, 2016)

mafergut said:


> Please, tell me what you think about it and I might consider buying one.


Will do. Well done on the PBs. I may try the race to sub 1:45. Sub 1:30 is one of my main goals for the year.


----------



## EvilGnome6 (May 15, 2016)

Hey folks. Been a while since I check in. I stopped getting email notifications when they upgraded the forum. Hopefully this post will kickstart them again.

Anyway, today I delegated Albuquerque Spring 2016 and set quite a few new PBs. Here were the most significant ones:

I got my first sub 5 2x2 single as part of my first sub 6 2x2 average. Looks like CLL is finally beginning to pay off. Here's the single:






My first 4x4 attempt was a 1:01 and I was thrilled. All the way to the point where I brought the cube back to Anthony Brooks who was scrambling and he noticed that the cube still had an adjacent PLL parity so we had to switch it to a DNF. Argh. That would have been a great new PB I'll have to settle with my first sub 1:10 4x4 single:






I also managed a few sub-40 OH singles. Here is my best attempt of a 37.86:






3x3 was unremarkable but I did manage to shave half a second off my PB average so it's now a 23.62. Here was my best attempt:


----------



## muchacho (May 15, 2016)

Very nice PBs, big improvement! I hadn't realized until now that you are also fast at such a small cube as 2x2.


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## newtonbase (May 15, 2016)

G


EvilGnome6 said:


> Hey folks. Been a while since I check in. I stopped getting email notifications when they upgraded the forum. Hopefully this post will kickstart them again.
> 
> Anyway, today I delegated Albuquerque Spring 2016 and set quite a few new PBs. Here were the most significant ones:
> 
> ...


Well done. I thought I'd got my first official sub 2mins 4x4 single at my last comp until the judge pointed out the same problem.


----------



## EvilGnome6 (May 15, 2016)

muchacho said:


> Very nice PBs, big improvement! I hadn't realized until now that you are also fast at such a small cube as 2x2.



Yeah. Now it's just 3x3 that's lagging behind everything else.


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## Jason Green (May 15, 2016)

EvilGnome6 said:


> Yeah. Now it's just 3x3 that's lagging behind everything else.


Nice job Mike! I wished I could've came for that my brother lives in abq. I did that one night with my 4x4, thought I had a good solve before bed and woke up the next day to see the parity. 

I have thought maybe I would learn CLL, I'm sure I have lots of room to improve with Ortega if I cared enough to actually practice more.


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## Logiqx (May 15, 2016)

@EvilGnome6: Nice results! What do you average at home for 2x2x2?

I've done a few 2x2x2 sessions this week and just did an Ao100 - 4.24/4.81/5.43/5.58 for 5/12/50/100.


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## mark49152 (May 15, 2016)

Logiqx said:


> I've done a few 2x2x2 sessions this week and just did an Ao100 - 4.24/4.81/5.43/5.58 for 5/12/50/100.


Nice. Ortega or CLL?


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## Logiqx (May 15, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> Nice. Ortega or CLL?



I'm still using Ortega. I think with a bit of practice I may get down to sub-5 globally.

Trying to inspect deeper into the solve is where the interest lies for me.


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## CLL Smooth (May 15, 2016)

Pulled off a rare Ao100 this morning, with minimal distractions. 1/5/12/100: 12.634/14.688/15.300/16.788
Rolled a 16.683 Ao100 from last night for a pb. There were 3 separate sub-15 Ao5s and my break down of singles show a mysterious lack of 19s.


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## EvilGnome6 (May 16, 2016)

Logiqx said:


> @EvilGnome6: Nice results! What do you average at home for 2x2x2?
> 
> I've done a few 2x2x2 sessions this week and just did an Ao100 - 4.24/4.81/5.43/5.58 for 5/12/50/100.



You're definitely faster than me. Here's what I'm currently averaging:

Average of 5: *5.30s*
Average of 12: *5.73s*
Mean of 100: *6.82s

*


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## EvilGnome6 (May 16, 2016)

Jason Green said:


> Nice job Mike! I wished I could've came for that my brother lives in abq.



They're going to try to organize more competitions out there and already asked me to come delegate. I hope you can come to the next one.


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## Logiqx (May 16, 2016)

EvilGnome6 said:


> You're definitely faster than me. Here's what I'm currently averaging:
> 
> Average of 5: *5.30s*
> Average of 12: *5.73s*
> ...


Cool. Congrats on getting an official result which matches your form at home. 

Sent from my GT-I9305 using Tapatalk


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## mark49152 (May 16, 2016)

Logiqx said:


> Trying to inspect deeper into the solve is where the interest lies for me.


How far do you see?


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## muchacho (May 16, 2016)

And how far will you try to see before learning cll?

Another lolscramble, the last one I was tired and didn't pay attention, but this time I knew the bottom would be solved and just assumed the top would auto-resolve so I tried to do it fast.

7819 16-may-2016 9:20:36 00:01.280 F R F' U2



Spoiler



y U2 R U' R'


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## h2f (May 16, 2016)

What are your splits with Hoya on 5x5 and 6x6?


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## Logiqx (May 16, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> How far do you see?


I often see the OLL and sometimes cancel into it forming a simple OBL (orient both layers). I think it is realistic to do this for 90% of my solves (eventually) but i currently do it about 25% of the time.

I know the final AUF about 50% of the time. I need to learn the remainder which will probably save another 0.5s.


Sent from my GT-I9305 using Tapatalk


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## Logiqx (May 16, 2016)

muchacho said:


> And how far will you try to see before learning cll?
> 
> Another lolscramble, the last one I was tired and didn't pay attention, but this time I knew the bottom would be solved and just assumed the top would auto-resolve so I tried to do it fast.
> 
> ...


I'll stick with Ortega until I have no significant improvements to make and hopefully by then my CxLL recognition will be respectable!

Sent from my GT-I9305 using Tapatalk


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## Selkie (May 16, 2016)

Hi all, sorry I have been manic with work. At least 3 days a week away on business for each week in the last month.

Lots of great progress by you all, still trying to read back all the posts missed.

Any cubing time I have had has been devoted to untimed 7x7 (Just about sub 6:30 overall), Gigaminx (Best 18:57.xy) and untimed 5x5. Not much 3x3 I am afraid.

Just about to go away for another two days but things will be quieter by the weekend and hopefully can make contribution and practice more regular.

Take care all


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## kbrune (May 16, 2016)

Wish I could be more active in this post. Been trying to keep up with following posts. Been busy as well with work, practicing and preparing to be emcee at my daughter's dance recital. 

I'll be posting as much as possible these next two weekends though. Posting my comp progress. It'll be my first comp in 2 years and I have back 2 back comps! I'm pumped! I'll be at national capital region in Ottawa this weekend. My first 2 day comp. And going to northeastern spring in Boston the following weekend. Can't wait!

Keep up the good work my fellow moldy oldies!


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## newtonbase (May 16, 2016)

I met a speedsolver outside of competition for the very first time yesterday. A young lad, about 14, saw me cubing at the swimming baths and asked to have a go. He put me to shame on 3x3 but messed up parity on 4x4 as his broke so he's out of practice. I'd have liked to have given him a spare one but there were no parents there to ask permission of.


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## Logiqx (May 16, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> I met a speedsolver outside of competition for the very first time yesterday. A young lad, about 14, saw me cubing at the swimming baths and asked to have a go. He put me to shame on 3x3 but messed up parity on 4x4 as his broke so he's out of practice. I'd have liked to have given him a spare one but there were no parents there to ask permission of.



That's cool. I've only met one speedcuber outside of this community... another windsurfer who competes on the same circuit as me. However, I've recently discovered that someone I was trying to get into my team also used to be a speedcuber! Unfortunately he's not in a position to change jobs right now but a mutual acquaintance joined my team last week mentioned the guy lubing cubes at work, lol.


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## Jason Green (May 17, 2016)

There were several cubers that came through the beyond Rubik's exhibit I volunteered at last weekend. That's no surprise. Most of them were newly into it. One kid was pretty fast around 16 seconds, he said he didn't even have a speed cube and he got his all time PBs using mine!

I had a new best consecutive run of sub 20s with 9 out of 12 solves. 
https://www.instagram.com/p/BFfmRT2N2V0/

Oh, I thought this was appropriate at the hotel for the Rubik's cube exhibit (even though spelling is off)...






BTW, for those interested in the elementary cube club, it was a success I would say. We were only able to meet 3 times this year due to end of year testing and such. We got great feedback from the kids and some parents. They have ideas to make it run smoother and want me to help next year also.


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## muchacho (May 17, 2016)

I've started to use the CMLL U (Headlights) algs in speed solves, so only 10 cases left (Sune and Antisune) before full CMLL.

Do any non-Roux learn the Sune and Antisune COLLs?


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## Logiqx (May 17, 2016)

I noticed that in Felix's EO video he uses a couple of the Sune COLL cases. The one which is like a regular FR Sune but with an extra L and L' in the middle. I guess he also uses Niklas and avoids the diag swap.

Sent from my GT-I9305 using Tapatalk


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## Logiqx (May 17, 2016)

Additionally. He also did at least one 2GLL Sune case and he also used normal Sune for one of the adjacent swap cases.

Sent from my GT-I9305 using Tapatalk


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## CLL Smooth (May 17, 2016)

muchacho said:


> Do any non-Roux learn the Sune and Antisune COLLs?


oops. I learned them years ago. Don't use them often but sometimes when recognition is quick.


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## Chree (May 17, 2016)

Logiqx said:


> I noticed that in Felix's EO video he uses a couple of the Sune COLL cases. The one which is like a regular FR Sune but with an extra L and L' in the middle. I guess he also uses Niklas and avoids the diag swap.



Niklas by itself is an adjacent-swap alg. But if you slap that sucker in the middle of a normal Sune, it solves the diag case: R U R' U (L' U R U' L) U2 R'.

Funny, I was just talking to Barry about this case yesterday. I like the recognition angle of the mirror inverse: R' U2 (L U' R U L') U R' U R.

In other news, my phone crash in the middle of practice on the bus yesterday. Somehow it wiped out all of my cubing sessions. I lost 5 months of records... PBs that I was extremely proud of. It was a little heart breaking. My sub1:30 Ao12 on 5x5. My sub9 on 8x8. My first sub13 Ao12 on 3x3. All gone.

Luckily I can probably scour my text messages with Barry and get most of the highlights back. Just sucks I won't have them all. And won't be able to run any statistics. *le sigh*


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## Jason Green (May 17, 2016)

I actually overlooked the fact that I had my first sub 20 ao12 last night! 19.634. 

@Chree sorry you lost your stuff, that sucks. I've said it before but I am intentionally not trying to keep that great of records. I'm kind of obsessive with stuff like that and if I did I would spend way too much time worrying about it. I lost several months on cstimer a while back and it still bugged me some. I've got a bunch on my phone now which I'll probably lose because I have no plans to back them up. But that's OK because I'm worried about where I get to in the end.


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## muchacho (May 17, 2016)

Congrats!

I guess you need to update more than one time of that sig.


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## Chree (May 17, 2016)

Jason Green said:


> But that's OK because I'm worried about where I get to in the end.



This is exactly what I keep telling myself. Helps me cope. ;-) Thanks, and congrats on the sub20!

In other other news, my Weilong GTS arrived yesterday.... and it's fairly amazing. My first new session, post-crash, was pretty good. First sub10 in at least a couple months. The whole Ao50 wasn't that great for me, so I didn't bother rolling.

1/5/12/50: 9.94, 11.88, 13.00, 14.67


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## Logiqx (May 17, 2016)

Chree said:


> Niklas by itself is an adjacent-swap alg. But if you slap that sucker in the middle of a normal Sune, it solves the diag case: R U R' U (L' U R U' L) U2 R'.
> 
> Funny, I was just talking to Barry about this case yesterday. I like the recognition angle of the mirror inverse: R' U2 (L U' R U L') U R' U R.



That's nice. I suspect I'll end up learning some of the Sune cases for OH.

How often do you use COLL in your 2H solves? I'm liking the 6x increase in PLL skips when I use COLL! 

Which cases do you ignore when solving 2H (even OH), preferring to use OCLL + PLL?


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## h2f (May 17, 2016)

@Chree, nice results. I was wathiching your Hoya tricks last week. It's very usefull.


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## Chree (May 17, 2016)

Logiqx said:


> That's nice. I suspect I'll end up learning some of the Sune cases for OH.
> 
> How often do you use COLL in your 2H solves? I'm liking the 6x increase in PLL skips when I use COLL!
> 
> Which cases do you ignore when solving 2H (even OH), preferring to use OCLL + PLL?



I use COLL for 100% of the time for T/U/L/Pi/H. For the longest time I was only 100% on OH and Big Cubes, but I unconsciously made the switch for 2H some time in the last 6 months. I don't think it's really that advantageous for 2H, but on OH and Big Cubes it always (ALWAYS) helps.

When I did ignore cases, I'd usually ignore L. My recognition was pretty bad and it's still probably my weakest set (not including Sune). I would also ignore some U's, particularly the Diag case and "top swap" (don't know what to call this case, it's the R' [Y Perm] R case). When I'd get those, I knew my "normal" alg would results in an adjacent swap PLL and would lookahead for the headlights.

Even though I just finished learning the S/AS COLLs last weekend, I don't think I'm going to use them, even for OH/Big Cubes. Instead, I'll still just use CP recognition to help predict what kind of PLL I'm going to get.



h2f said:


> @Chree, nice results. I was wathiching your Hoya tricks last week. It's very usefull.



Glad they helped  I usually tell people to just ignore my 2nd video on 4x4... I don't think I use anything in that video anymore.

I also keep telling myself that I'm going to put together another video or 2 on everything I've learned since then, especially on cubes bigger than 5x5... but I just haven't found the time.


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## h2f (May 17, 2016)

Chree said:


> I usually tell people to just ignore my 2nd video on 4x4... I don't think I use anything in that video anymore.
> 
> I also keep telling myself that I'm going to put together another video or 2 on everything I've learned since then, especially on cubes bigger than 5x5... but I just haven't found the time.



That would be good. I use Hoya on 6x6 and 5x5 and tricks on 6x6 would help me a lot.


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## JanW (May 17, 2016)

Chree said:


> Niklas by itself is an adjacent-swap alg. But if you slap that sucker in the middle of a normal Sune, it solves the diag case: R U R' U (L' U R U' L) U2 R'.


Very nice! I shall start using that one. So far the only COLL alg I've been using is R' U' R L U2 R' U' R U2 L' for diagonal swap in L cases, as that also happens to be an alg I use for parity in BLD. I've been thinking about learning more of the COLLs for diagonal swap, so yours is perfect. Now I looked up the others and found F triple sexy F'. That one is definitely also going straight into active use.


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## MarcelP (May 18, 2016)

Jason Green said:


> I actually overlooked the fact that I had my first sub 20 ao12 last night! 19.634.



Oo.... that was quicker than expected.. We are all in trouble now LOL...


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## MarcelP (May 18, 2016)

Chree said:


> In other other news, my Weilong GTS arrived yesterday.... and it's fairly amazing. ........ First sub10 in at least a couple months.



I am expecting mine today or tomorrow. And after all these 'It is amazing' reactions I read, I am very very excited about this cube. Congrats on your sub 10.. That means you are in the big boy league.. (But you had a few allready eh?)

Edit, I had a nice first solve of the day:


Spoiler



1. 13.76 R F D2 U2 F L2 R2 B' U2 B2 R2 F' D L' F L' F2 D2 U' R

x2 // inspection
L' D2 L R' D U R' // XX-CROSS (7)
y' U R U' R' U R U R' //3RD (9)
y R' U' R U' y R U R' //4TH (9)
U' L' U' B U L U' L' B' L // OLL (10)
M2' U' M2' U' M' U2' M2' U2' M' U2 // PLL (10)

//45 MOVES IN 13.76 = 3.2 TPS


https://alg.cubing.net/?alg=x2_//_i..._F_L2_R2_B-_U2_B2_R2_F-_D_L-_F_L-_F2_D2_U-_R_

unfortunatly the timed session (ao50 was suP 20).. Bleh  My times are getting worse.. I need to do something


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## MarcelP (May 18, 2016)

Jason Green said:


> Oh, I thought this was appropriate at the hotel for the Rubik's cube exhibit (even though spelling is off)...



Friedrich is the correct spelling (Fridrich is no German and no English name) and I suspect Jessica is from that line of Germans but the 'e' has become lost somewhere.. Pretty funny picture


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## kbrune (May 18, 2016)

@Jason

I stare at that exact cooling unit everyday at work lol

If i knew how I'd post a pic


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## earth2dan (May 18, 2016)

Dang. I was just perusing upcoming comps at the WCA site and there's one in Minneapolis this weekend. That's only a 7-8 hour drive for me, the closest comp I've ever seen to where I live. I wish I'd seen it sooner so I could have planned a weekend trip, it's too late now... I've never been to a competition 

In other news, I finally got my big stickerless order. QiYi pyraminx/skewb/square-one, X-Man Tornado, GuoGuan YueXiao, Cyclone Boys G4 4x4, and a ridged Dayan Megaminx. I'll try to post an unboxing video tonight, though I've never done that before so I can't guarantee it won't suck


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## One Wheel (May 18, 2016)

earth2dan said:


> I was just perusing upcoming comps at the WCA site and there's one in Minneapolis this weekend.



I was looking at that one too. It's only about 4 hours for me, but still too far. I'm pretty sure they hit their 90 competitor limit a few weeks ago.


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## kbrune (May 18, 2016)

@earth2dan

It's crazy how fast comps fill up these days. Very difficult to plan. I was browsing different comps in the states within a 6-7 hour drive range a few months ago and many of them had reached their limits fast. So when I saw the Boston comp was available I registered with ought knowing 100% that I could actually attend lol.

You're in Winipeg if I remember correctly right? How far is that from Calgary. There's a comp there without limit on May 28th.

Edit: I see now that it's at least 13 hour drive :/


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## kbrune (May 18, 2016)

Just got 3:34.31 in 3BLD. Which is my second best result. Hopefully my accuracy will be present this weekend!

I feel like I'm improving but I have a difficult time imagining ever being able to get to sub 2.


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## earth2dan (May 18, 2016)

kbrune said:


> @earth2dan
> You're in Winipeg if I remember correctly right? How far is that from Calgary. There's a comp there without limit on May 28th.
> 
> Edit: I see know that it's at least 13 hour drive :/


Yeah I saw that Calgary one too. Calgary is a good 13hrs of uninterrupted no construction driving, and we know how much that happens this time of year... Unfortunately all the Canadian comps are on Eastern or Western sides of the country, and here I am right smack in the middle :/

Nice job on that 3BLD. I have yet to get a successful 3BLD attempt, though I haven't really dedicated a lot of effort to it. I can do 2BLD


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## kbrune (May 18, 2016)

@earth2dan

Looks like you're gonna have to become the central Canadian delegate!


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## EvilGnome6 (May 18, 2016)

Older cubers actually have the means to sign a rental agreement for a venue. If you want some local competitions, pitch in and help organize some.


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## earth2dan (May 18, 2016)

kbrune said:


> @earth2dan
> Looks like you're gonna have to become the central Canadian delegate!





EvilGnome6 said:


> Older cubers actually have the means to sign a rental agreement for a venue. If you want some local competitions, pitch in and help organize some.


The only thing that really scares me about this is the time investment. Once my kids are a little older I'd certainly like to get more involved. Maybe when I'm a slightly older... older cuber


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## kbrune (May 18, 2016)

I'm going to look into organizing a comp myself in the fall. If it goes well I'll put my name in for consideration as a delegate should there be a need for a second one in Ontario.

@earth2dan

Yeah for sure. Family first. Unless you can get them all to compete too.


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## kbrune (May 18, 2016)

@earth2dan

Actually I have a plan. You move back to Morrisburg and we split the time investment that goes into comps!


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## One Wheel (May 18, 2016)

earth2dan said:


> The only thing that really scares me about this is the time investment. Once my kids are a little older I'd certainly like to get more involved. Maybe when I'm a slightly older... older cuber



Just get your kids cubing, and you can set one up for them . I don't have any kids, but I got my nephew a cube for his 2nd birthday, and there are at least two or three other kids I know who have expressed some interest since I started. There's every possibility of a nice little pocket of cubers in SW Wisconsin in a few years.


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## newtonbase (May 19, 2016)

I wish I had time to organise a comp. Milton Keynes is really easy for a lot of people to get to. We could have the worlds at Stadium MK!


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## mark49152 (May 19, 2016)

earth2dan said:


> The only thing that really scares me about this is the time investment. Once my kids are a little older I'd certainly like to get more involved. Maybe when I'm a slightly older... older cuber


Yeah same for me. I would really like to organise a comp and could even try to make the time, but all it would take is a sick kid or other family issue and I fear having to drop out and dump it on others.


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## kbrune (May 19, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> Yeah same for me. I would really like to organise a comp and could even try to make the time, but all it would take is a sick kid or other family issue and I fear having to drop out and dump it on others.



A hospital venue would solve that problem! lol


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## kbrune (May 19, 2016)

@mark49152 

I found a good comp for you

https://www.cubingusa.com/MentalBreakdown2016/events.php


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## earth2dan (May 19, 2016)

kbrune said:


> @earth2dan
> Actually I have a plan. You move back to Morrisburg and we split the time investment that goes into comps!


Now there's a plan  Good luck convincing my wife to move back to the 'burg though haha.



One Wheel said:


> Just get your kids cubing, and you can set one up for them . I don't have any kids, but I got my nephew a cube for his 2nd birthday, and there are at least two or three other kids I know who have expressed some interest since I started. There's every possibility of a nice little pocket of cubers in SW Wisconsin in a few years.


Oh man have I tried. I'd love it if I could get my kids into cubing. I don't get it, my kids don't like Star Wars and they don't like cubing... If they didn't look like little clones I'd question their parentage. Every kid I meet that sees me solving is entranced and wants to play with my puzzles and wants me to teach them how to solve. Every kid that is, except my own. My girls just have zero interest 

So I filmed an unboxing of my stickerless puzzles that just arrived. It's kinda long and I ramble a bit, but it's uploading now. Looks like it's gonna take a while so I'll post it in the morning when it's up.

Edit: Well, it didn't take that long to upload so here it is:





Regarding the Cyclone Boys G4. Is there anyone here that has it and likes it? I did a bunch of solves with it tonight after opening it and I'm just not feeling it. It's really really catchy. Like flawed design kind of catchy. The middle layers are horrible for major lockups even when everything appears to be perfectly aligned. It catches and locks up so bad that I can't move it in the direction I want without reversing it a quarter turn and starting the move over again. It's really bad... Either I got a lemon, or this thing straight up stinks. As it is now, it doesn't hold a finger to my AoSu. It doesn't even compare to my Guansu (which had an outrageous pop, but at least it's enjoyable to solve)


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## mafergut (May 19, 2016)

earth2dan said:


> Regarding the Cyclone Boys G4. Is there anyone here that has it and likes it? I did a bunch of solves with it tonight after opening it and I'm just not feeling it. It's really really catchy. Like flawed design kind of catchy. The middle layers are horrible for major lockups even when everything appears to be perfectly aligned. It catches and locks up so bad that I can't move it in the direction I want without reversing it a quarter turn and starting the move over again. It's really bad... Either I got a lemon, or this thing straight up stinks. As it is now, it doesn't hold a finger to my AoSu. It doesn't even compare to my Guansu (which had an outrageous pop, but at least it's enjoyable to solve)



I'll watch your unboxing later today but, regarding the CB G4 I had the exact same reaction and the fact is that, yeah, out of the box it feels like the puzzle is deffective or something but it's not. Those nasty catches will go away gradually with breaking in. I'm not saying that mine does not have any but it happens much less frequently and the catches are much less severe. I hope they will completely go away with some more hundreds of solves as I don't think it has broken in completely (it has maybe a couple hundred solves on it). But the 3x3 stage is so great out of the box already. That's indicative of how good the puzzle is... or will become.


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## mark49152 (May 19, 2016)

kbrune said:


> @mark49152
> 
> I found a good comp for you
> 
> https://www.cubingusa.com/MentalBreakdown2016/events.php


Yeah that is my perfect comp, or would be if it was less than 5000 miles away. Great name too .


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## h2f (May 19, 2016)

kbrune said:


> @mark49152
> 
> I found a good comp for you
> 
> https://www.cubingusa.com/MentalBreakdown2016/events.php



I would like to take part in such comp - only bld events, feet and fm. 2 days. Wow.

I'm back to blind and slowly getting better. My accuracy was 30% in first 15 solves and around 50% in next. Finally I got sub-1 solve (54.04) and quite good mo3 1:14.36 (1:23.61, 1:25.43, 54.04) - new pb - and new pb ao5 1:20.99 ((DNF(1:17.14)), 1:13.90, 1:23.61, 1:25.43, (54.04))


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## mark49152 (May 19, 2016)

Nice progress @h2f. 3BLD has been my focus since London but I have not had much practice time. Yesterday I had 8/10 successes at 1:52 average. That's about my overall average time but better success rate than usual. I think I have a long way to go to beat my 1:27 comp PB. It was too easy a scramble .


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## EvilGnome6 (May 19, 2016)

earth2dan said:


> Regarding the Cyclone Boys G4. Is there anyone here that has it and likes it? I did a bunch of solves with it tonight after opening it and I'm just not feeling it. It's really really catchy. Like flawed design kind of catchy. The middle layers are horrible for major lockups even when everything appears to be perfectly aligned. It catches and locks up so bad that I can't move it in the direction I want without reversing it a quarter turn and starting the move over again. It's really bad... Either I got a lemon, or this thing straight up stinks. As it is now, it doesn't hold a finger to my AoSu. It doesn't even compare to my Guansu (which had an outrageous pop, but at least it's enjoyable to solve)



The G4 is fantastically, horribly bad out of the box. The middle layers catch and it feels like there's a bunch of flashing or a defect getting in the way. You have to work it hard for a few weeks and it'll break in. You'll see big improvements over the first 10 solves but keep at it. The catching goes away and it ends up being really nice. Add a drop or two of really heavy silicone lube to make the plastic feel softer and you're there. It's been my main for quite a while and I have access to trying lots of cubes.


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## mark49152 (May 19, 2016)

EvilGnome6 said:


> The G4 is fantastically, horribly bad out of the box.


Agreed. Mine went straight back in the box. I have felt @newtonbase's G4 and it does indeed feel nice. The problem is that it isn't such a huge improvement over the AoSu that I would be prepared to put myself through a couple of weeks of bad solves for it.


----------



## Jason Green (May 19, 2016)

I had the original CB 4x4 first, and used someone else's G4 at my first comp so ordered one. I did not really have any severe issues right away, but I still think it's improving. Maybe three bad locks that totally confused me, I could not turn it either way until I messed with it for 30 seconds or so. Overall I've enjoyed it since I got it. Maybe I turn 4x4 so slow it doesn't matter what the cube does.


----------



## Shaky Hands (May 19, 2016)

Thanks for the vid @earth2dan. I'm considering getting the Square-1, so found this interesting.


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## kbrune (May 19, 2016)

I bought a moyu aoshi 4x4 from a local cuber and I love it. Mind you the cube I was using before was a modded SS. It was super easy to turn but was way too loose. my moyu is far smoother. 

I don't have much experience trying out many different brands though. I often have no clue what you guys are talking about! I'm jelly of the mighty collection many of you have!


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## h2f (May 19, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> Nice progress @h2f. 3BLD has been my focus since London but I have not had much practice time. Yesterday I had 8/10 successes at 1:52 average. That's about my overall average time but better success rate than usual. I think I have a long way to go to beat my 1:27 comp PB. It was too easy a scramble .



I dont think there's big progress. I rolled my pb mo3 and ao5 by 1 second or around. But I had more good solves and rolled up ao12 from 1:55 to 1:29. 
My accuracy is between 30% to 90% today. I try to be more focused during practice. It means I do one 30 minutes session per day.

If everything will go well I'll get this in 2 weeks:


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## kbrune (May 20, 2016)

That's odd! No posts in over 24 hours!


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## Jason Green (May 20, 2016)

kbrune said:


> That's odd! No posts in over 24 hours!


Don't poke a sleeping bear.  Not that I don't love all the activity.


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## mafergut (May 20, 2016)

Too busy with work this week to do anything but 10 solves in a row at most


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## muchacho (May 20, 2016)

grrrr!

Single PB: 13.831 (it was 14.352 from 21-apr)
Ao12 PB: 20.871 (it was 21.308 from 10-may)

I should have tried to reconstruct the 13.831 right there, but I was looking for an ao12 PB and didn't stop. I'll try now.



Spoiler



17864 20-may-2016 19:58:04 00:20.198 F2 U F2 D B2 R2 D2 U B2 L2 U2 R B F L' F U' B' F' D2 U2
17863 20-may-2016 19:57:13 00:17.792 D F2 R2 U' R2 D L2 D2 R2 B2 D L U2 F' U' L U2 F' U2 B R' U'
17862 20-may-2016 19:56:26 00:13.831 F2 D L2 U2 F2 R2 D L2 B2 R2 F' R' U2 R' F U' B' R2 F2 L'
17861 20-may-2016 19:55:42 00:23.767 D2 R2 F2 U2 L2 B2 U' B2 D' F2 U B F D' L' B2 F2 R B R2 F2 U'
17860 20-may-2016 19:54:46 00:30.886 R2 L2 U2 R2 U B2 D U' B2 U' F' L2 D R' L F' L2 D' U' L U
17859 20-may-2016 19:54:03 00:20.783 F2 D L2 U F2 U2 L2 B2 L2 F2 U R B' F' U B' D U2 B' F' U'
17858 20-may-2016 19:53:20 00:18.190 F2 D' B2 U' B2 D2 F2 D L2 D' U2 F' D' F R' B' D2 U' R B F2 U'
17857 20-may-2016 19:52:37 00:21.174 D F2 D B2 L2 U' L2 D2 R2 D' U B F' U' L2 B' D2 R' B2 D L' U'
17856 20-may-2016 19:51:54 00:21.189 F2 U2 F2 D' R2 D2 R2 B2 D' R2 U F' R' L F' U2 F D2 F2 L D2
17855 20-may-2016 19:51:09 00:21.231 U R2 L2 F2 L2 D F2 D' R2 D' F2 L B F2 D R2 L B2 U R' L'
17854 20-may-2016 19:49:54 00:24.079 L2 F2 L2 D L2 U F2 L2 U B2 F2 L' D R' F2 L U2 F' U' R
17853 20-may-2016 19:49:00 00:20.311 R2 L2 D2 U R2 B2 F2 U L2 B2 U R' B' U' F' U' B2 R U' F' L'




*Edit: reconstruction done*

A "mistake" lead me to CMLL skip, and I was lucky with a short LSE.

37 STM
2.67 tps



Spoiler: reconstruction



x' y
R Uw U M2 L U' L'
U' M' U R U' R U' R U' R' U M' U2 Rw' U' Rw
U M' U M U' M' U2 M U2 M U2 M2 U M2

https://alg.cubing.net/?setup=F2_D_L2_U2_F2_R2_D_L2_B2_R2_F-_R-_U2_R-_F_U-_B-_R2_F2_L-&alg=x-_y R_Uw_U_M2_L_U-_L- U-_M-_U_R_U-_R_U-_R_U-_R-_U_M-_U2_Rw-_U-_Rw U_M-_U_M_U-_M-_U2_M_U2_M_U2_M2_U_M2


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## h2f (May 20, 2016)

@muchacho, very nice solve. 

I had another sub1 3bld solve.


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## mafergut (May 20, 2016)

Congratulations to you both. Very nice times!

I think I already have work for the weekend: disassembling my Tanglong to clean it and lube it. It was great out of the box but right now the factory lube has completely dried out and the cube is so slow that I cannot use it for OH any more. So, time for cleaning. While I do that I will go back to my Hualong, which was my previous OH main but does not feel bad at all for 2H too.

I also tried my new Yuxin 5x5 stickerless today and I like it but not sure yet if I prefer it over the BoChuang. My times were worse but I'm sure it was because of lack of practice.

I also tried a bit more my new 2x2s and I think I have finally found something that will retire my Dayan 2x2. That Moyu Weipo just feels fantastic. The Wittwo v1 is quite nice as well and flows great... until you turn a bit inaccurately and it catches because the corner points are too thin and when they overlap they catch on each other diagonally.

Apart from that I have not practiced much this week. And my Dayan Mega keeps popping center caps and screws. It just unscrews itself with use. I'm afraid the core is defective or something. To avoid that I had to tighten it so much that it is not good anymore.

The best piece of my collection now is the 35mm YuQuiLin. I love it. It turns great for such a tiny cube.


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## Chree (May 20, 2016)

mafergut said:


> Congratulations to you both. Very nice times!
> 
> I think I already have work for the weekend: disassembling my Tanglong to clean it and lube it. It was great out of the box but right now the factory lube has completely dried out and the cube is so slow that I cannot use it for OH any more. So, time for cleaning. While I do that I will go back to my Hualong, which was my previous OH main but does not feel bad at all for 2H too.
> 
> ...



I wasn't a fan of Yuxin's stickerless shades. The Orange and Red were too similar. Made it really hard to recognize in sub-optimal lighting. That might be one problem you're facing. And I'm sure I'm beginning to sound like a broken record on these forums, but the BoChuang is just a better cube, in my opinion.

I wish I knew what the WeiPo was like, but I got sent the wrong cube when I ordered it. Luckily they're sending a replacement the next time I place an order. At least that gives me an excuse to go shopping 

And I've heard of Dayan Megas having the problem lately. It's happening to a friend of mine as well as to a bunch of people on some facebook groups I follow. Sorry to hear it, man. Makes me feel lucky that I bought mine when I did.


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## JanW (May 20, 2016)

Impressive progress here, as always! Sub14 roux and sub1 3bld is awesome!

I should follow mafergut's example and clean out my gray TangLong as well. When I first got it I had some recognition problems on it, but over the past few months it slowly became my main as I got more used to recognition. Yesterday I took out the black TangLong I got later (and didn't like as it didn't feel anything like the gray one), lubed and tensioned it and did some solves. After that I noticed just how sluggish the gray one has become lately. The black one is way faster and actually feels quite okay to solve with now. Only got about 100 solves on it so far, but I can feel that it has great potential, as long as I learn to control the speed better.

Otherwise no new records to report. Got my first sub30 Ao100 1-2 weeks ago, then something happened... The next Ao100 after that was >33 seconds. It felt like I lost my ability to solve overnight. I think it was a case of trying too hard, going too fast during F2L and just being generally frustrated by not seeing the results I expected. Since then I've been doing mostly slow solves and focusing on calming down the solve. Now times are back at the level they were before this temporary setback.

I've also been doing quite a lot of slow ZZ solves with 2 look PLL. Doing ZZ F2L slowly is a lot of fun, as there's a lot of thinking involved and coming up with solutions still at this point. If I ever manage to get that part up to an acceptable solving speed remains to be seen. I'm aiming to get the third consecutive success in the race to sub 30 with my old method next week, then I can switch more focus over to ZZ.


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## earth2dan (May 21, 2016)

Chree said:


> I wasn't a fan of Yuxin's stickerless shades. The Orange and Red were too similar. Made it really hard to recognize in sub-optimal lighting.


That's funny. I said this exact same thing many pages back about the stickerless Yuxin 5x5. I took mine to the office where we have bright fluorescent lighting and it's fantastic. Zero problems with the shades there, in fact they look really good under that bright white light. At home however, red/orange was causing me real grief. So the Yuxin is my office 5x5 now 



mafergut said:


> Too busy with work this week to do anything but 10 solves in a row at most


Yeah I hear ya. I had a couple really late nights this week just to get in some cubing time. Monday is a holiday here so I've got a long weekend ahead of me. Hopefully I can set aside some time in there for cubing. I still haven't set up my two BoChuangs like I wanted to. And I've got a bunch of new puzzles that need breaking in  Though, I've got some overdue yardwork to get done, and it's "remove the training wheels" weekend for my kids (that should be entertaining).

It's encouraging to know others had the same impression as me about the Cyclone Boys G4. I'm not sure I want to put in the effort of a grueling break in with a puzzle that doesn't feel good when I have an awesome AoSu right there. Also, to my pleasant surprise, I was going through the collection and found that I had purchased a stickerless AoSu and shelved it way back when as well. It's the normal coloured one that MoYu has since discontinued. I'm going to try and set it up like I did my stickered one. If I can do that, then I've found my stickerless 4x4.


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## JanW (May 21, 2016)

Okay, so I definitely have a problem with good results leading to worse solves. As soon as I see a possibility to set a new Ao5 or Ao12 pb, I start making mistakes and rushing through solves without lookahead. First 5 solves today averaged slightly over 27s, followed by a 20.38. Then I realized I had a really good start for new Ao12 pb and the 6 following solves were in the 30-37s range. I kind of wish I had a timer that didn't display the time immediately, but would let me do a session without seeing any times, then look at stats later. That Would help me get away from such results oriented thinking and focus on the solve instead.

Later I came across one very nice scramble:
R' D2 F' L' B2 L2 U R' F2 D B D R B L' D2 F U2 F U2 B2 R' F2 D L

Possibly the first time I managed to plan 2 F2L pairs during inspection (which I'll admit I probably used more than 15 seconds for). Ended up solving it in 22.85s without last layer skips.


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## muchacho (May 21, 2016)

You could use a computer program (or a tablet) and just don't look at the times... but I think it's good seeing the times while trying to get good averages, it's just training to handle the pressure, it will be useful in the long run.


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## SenorJuan (May 21, 2016)

Quote:"And my Dayan Mega keeps popping center caps and screws. It just unscrews itself with use."
You could try fixing it with thread-locking compound (stud-lock / nut-lock etc), such as the Loctite brand ones.
I had to lock one of the screws on my Zhanchi that way, as out of the box it kept loosening on one face.
Edit: Choose the appropriate compound - you should still be able to fine-tune the tension if need be. Some of the threadlocks are ridiculously permanent, the instructions for disassembly say 'heat the item to 650 C' so basically glowing red, then.....

"The best piece of my collection now is the 35mm YuQuiLin. I love it. It turns great for such a tiny cube."
I quite fancied one of them, it looks to have all the modern cube innards, compared to the 25mm cubes, which are all old-skool design. I have a 25mm cube from the 80's, it's fun, I never quite managed to sub-30 it back then, but I was intending to refurbish it and see what my more 'advanced' skills can squeeze out of it.


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## mafergut (May 21, 2016)

SenorJuan said:


> Quote:"And my Dayan Mega keeps popping center caps and screws. It just unscrews itself with use."
> You could try fixing it with thread-locking compound (stud-lock / nut-lock etc), such as the Loctite brand ones.
> I had to lock one of the screws on my Zhanchi that way, as out of the box it kept loosening on one face.
> 
> ...


I might try to follow your advice with the Mega but the very thought of disassembling it completely to put loctite in all the screw holes makes me mad. I'd better just wait and see if the new Moyu and QiYi Megas are good and buy one (or mod my SS ).

Regarding the YuQuiLin you can certainly speedsolve with it. I just did a dozen solves with it and got some 21s but no sub-20 yet 

Also, @earth2dan, it's a pity that you won't take the time to break the G4 in. It doesn't take that much time and it's really great afterwards but, anyway, if you are happy with your Aosu that's fine. Already planning my next stickerless order after watching your vid. I will pick a Qiyi Skewb, for sure, but as I already have a stickered Qiyi Pyra I might wait for the new Qiyi/X-Men Pyra with magnetic mechanism. Also, as mentioned above, probably a Qiyi Mega as well. Still waiting for a good stickerless non-candy colors 6x6.


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## kbrune (May 21, 2016)

Just choked in first round 2x2!! Nervous for nothing. Kept forgetting if I had a block on first layer at pll. Beat my single but don't think I beat my average. 

Psyched to be here!! Just gotta shake off these nerves!!


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## MarcelP (May 21, 2016)

I had a nice competition today. Really enjoyed myself, but messed up all events. Started out with a 4x4 solve that I stopped after 2 minutes because I made so many mistakes. I had my first Skewb in competition. First solve was 1.01 and last solve 1.00.08 leaving me with a DNF average  3X3 first round 22 average and second round 21 average.. Could have been worse but also could have been way better. I should take practice before competition more seriously. LOL
Best solve of the day..





On a brighter note, I used the Weilong GTS in second round and it is now my main. I was affraid it was too fast to control in competition, but I had way more trouble controlling my main Gans. The GTS is freakin awesome..


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## muchacho (May 21, 2016)

Ouch, so close on that cut-offs, harsh judges.

How stable is the Weilong GTS? (I'm watching the unboxing now)


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## MarcelP (May 21, 2016)

muchacho said:


> How stable is the Weilong GTS? (I'm watching the unboxing now)


Trust me.. you want it... It is stable, fast and as forgiving as a Gans 356 (but better)....


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## muchacho (May 21, 2016)

I want this cube, next order.


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## kbrune (May 21, 2016)

@MarcelP

I tried someone's Weilong GTS and it feels like a dream! I'm definitely going to get one. 

Mire comp updates. 3x3 was ok considering I never practice. I had four 22.xy solves and a 26. Consistency at least! 

I killed Pyraminx. Was expecting a 12-13 second ave. Ended up with a 10.7x with an 8.31 single!


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## muchacho (May 21, 2016)

Nice times on Pyra, congrats. What comp is that? I searched cubecomps, not there?


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## kbrune (May 21, 2016)

I'm at National Capital Region if you were asking me muchacho


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## Jason Green (May 21, 2016)

kbrune said:


> I'm at National Capital Region if you were asking me muchacho


Haha I wondered. I thought maybe Tapatalk notified me twice or something.


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## mark49152 (May 21, 2016)

JanW said:


> Okay, so I definitely have a problem with good results leading to worse solves.


I know that feeling. My second round from Exeter Open:
15.64 19.20 22.27 DNF DNF

Sigh.



MarcelP said:


> I had a nice competition today. Really enjoyed myself,


Hey I didn't realise you had a comp coming - either I missed it or you kept it quiet . Enjoying it is the main thing and at least you had skewb to get a PB . I would love to meet Ron at a comp too. 

Are you tempted to join the BLD club yet?


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## MarcelP (May 21, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> Are you tempted to join the BLD club yet?


I registered BLD for today.. but never came around learning M2 or even relearn OP.  Still on the bucketlist.. I think with the new Weilong GTS I will enjoy normal 3x3 practice again. I am trying to learn ZZ a bit now. Damn that EO Line is hard. Inspection takes me over a minute and solving on average 25.. But it is fun


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## mark49152 (May 21, 2016)

MarcelP said:


> I am trying to learn ZZ a bit now. Damn that EO Line is hard. Inspection takes me over a minute and solving on average 25.. But it is fun


25 is pretty good for a different method. Are you blockbuilding or doing CFOP style F2L?


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## MarcelP (May 21, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> 25 is pretty good for a different method. Are you blockbuilding or doing CFOP style F2L?


Definatly block building. I want to be able to solve like Phil Yu. If I get the hang of it I will learn the CMLL to become faster at last layer (CMLL leaves the easiest and fastest PLLs for me).


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## h2f (May 21, 2016)

MarcelP said:


> Definatly block building. I want to be able to solve like Phil Yu. If I get the hang of it I will learn the CMLL to become faster at last layer (CMLL leaves the easiest and fastest PLLs for me).


 You mean COLL?


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## MarcelP (May 21, 2016)

h2f said:


> You mean COLL?


I mean the one that orients and permute the corners in one step, and since the edges are all oriented you are left with a U PLL, H PLL or Z PLL.


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## newtonbase (May 21, 2016)

According to my cube timer I recorded over 70 solves in under 3 mins this morning including a PB of 0.15s. I think my 2yo may have got to my phone.


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## Jason Green (May 22, 2016)

Jason Green said:


> Haha I wondered. I thought maybe Tapatalk notified me twice or something.


This was me wondering about the double posts, which were deleted. Not about which comp you were at. Just for future reference.


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## kbrune (May 22, 2016)

Highlights of Day 1 at comp.

- turns out I beat my 2x2 average by 0.14 after all lol Also beat my single with a 6.33. Missed Round 2 by 9 spots. If I had hit my global ave I would have made it. I'll get em next time!
- finished Round 1 for 3x3 with a 22.61 ave. Came in 49th out of 145 ish. Round 2 cutoff was 48 lol
- Crushed my pyraminx goals. Wanted at least 12-13 second a05. Wound up getting 10.75 which qualified me for the second round. In Round 2 I came in 17th with an 11.40 a05 and cutoff for finals was 16.
- Skewb was all over the place. had 2 solves around 20, 40, 45, 19 and 17 second solves. finished with a 26.14 ao5. Wasn't expecting much there either way.
- Managed to beat the OH cutoff of 1 min to finish with an a05 of 56.83. And I managed to improve my official single from 44.34 to 44.19  

Looking forward to Tomorrow!
Goals will be:
4x4 - beat cutoff of 1:30 to qualify for an a05.
5x5 - possibly improve my single.
6x6 - sub 8 min.
7x7 - not much hope here lol
3BLD - sub 4 min.
Mega - sub 5 min single.

@MarcelP

Nice sub 20!

@h2f

Nice job on sub 1! Impressive!

@muchacho

Very nice PB!


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## kbrune (May 22, 2016)

Jason Green said:


> This was me wondering about the double posts, which were deleted. Not about which comp you were at. Just for future reference.



My posts were deleted?

Edit: nvm I just saw a notification that my posts were merged.


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## Jason Green (May 22, 2016)

kbrune said:


> My posts were deleted?
> 
> Edit: nvm I just saw a notification that my posts were merged.


Oh yeah sorry, just the part about you may have posted twice was deleted, which is what I had commented on. So in essence my comment was deleted.


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## h2f (May 22, 2016)

MarcelP said:


> I mean the one that orients and permute the corners in one step, and since the edges are all oriented you are left with a U PLL, H PLL or Z PLL.



I know you know.


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## JanW (May 22, 2016)

100 solves is a great way to start Sunday morning! Ao100 29.68 wasn't spectacular, again there was a few longer stretches of bad solves to bring down the average. But some good solves in there as well. New PBs:

Ao5: 25.55
Ao12: 26.80

The Ao12 was particulary pleasing when I saw the times.
28.97, 28.45, 27.15, 25.33, 24.85, (29.10), 27.85, 28.72, 22.83, 27.22, 26.63, (22.70)

Probably the first time ever I managed 12 consecutive sub30 solves.


MarcelP said:


> On a brighter note, I used the Weilong GTS in second round and it is now my main. I was affraid it was too fast to control in competition, but I had way more trouble controlling my main Gans. The GTS is freakin awesome..


This is great news as I happened to order one last week.  The plan was to buy a Thunderclap and a YueXiao, but as usual I couldn't resist putting a couple of more cubes into the order as well, including the GTS.


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## MarcelP (May 22, 2016)

h2f said:


> I know you know.


I checked the Wiki.. Yeah it's COLL instead of CMLL.. LOL CMLL (which I know from Roux) does not preserve the edges..


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## muchacho (May 22, 2016)

Wow, my best 3x3OH single was 54.172, now 42.805 with the first scramble of the WC, it felt really good 



Spoiler



176 22-may-2016 17:29:46 00:42.805 L2 F U2 L2 F2 R2 F U2 B2 L2 B' D L2 D' L' F2 U' F D U


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## CLL Smooth (May 22, 2016)

Woke up at 2am to go to work yesterday morning. Accidentally put two mismatched shoes on in the dark. Went to a comp at 9 am and drank lots of coffee.
Venue was great and had a good time despite my fatigue.
Managed to beat my previous 3x3 Ao5 by 0.01 sec. Also got a couple sub-4 2x2 solves and placed 4th. Failed OH avg again...


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## mafergut (May 22, 2016)

Hey Ken @kbrune. Nice PBs! I hope you have a good second day.
David, @muchacho, quite an improvement in your OH PB!!! Congrats.
@JanW nice Ao100, keep pushing and you'll say goodbay to sup-30 solves in no time.

Been doing a 4x4 Ao50 today but did not get any PBs other than a minor improvement in Ao12 of less than a sec, down to 1:28.65. Best single was 1:11.xx, one second short of my PB. Close to 1:30 global average, now it's when things start getting difficult to improve significantly in a short period of time. Race to sub-1 (even single, not to talk about Ao5 or 12) is still a long way to go and, to be honest, being barely sub-20 at 3x3, sub-1 at 4x4 will prove to be quite a challenge for me.

I think next week I will start practicing mainly 5x5 for another 2-3 weeks. Lots of margin for improvement there  Not sure if Bochuang or Yuxin, though


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## Shaky Hands (May 22, 2016)

I managed to get a new 3x3 PB of 17.70 (previous was 18.48 if I recall correctly.)

The lookahead just seemed really good for me in this solve and my length of pauses was significantly down. Also, I managed to significantly reduce cube rotations (I did one during the cross, but none during F2L.) Encouraging.

This is my attempt at reconstruction. The cross, 1st and 4th F2L pairs, plus OLL/PLL are definitely correct. Not 100% sure with the 2nd and 3rd pairs but very similar at least and led to the same steps afterwards.

Scramble:
R2 D' F D R' F U2 B' D F' U L' B2 F' L' D U B D F2 R2 F2 L U F'

Reconstruction:


Spoiler



x2 y2 // inspection
L F2 D' L F y F' U' F R2 // cross
F' U2 F2 U F' // 1st pair
R U R' L U L' F' U F U' R U R' // 2nd pair
L U L' B U B' U B U' B' // 3rd pair
U2 B' U' B // 4th pair
U F U R U' R' U R U' R' F' // an OLL I know
U y R U R' F' R U R' U' R' F R2 U' R' U' // J-perm

https://alg.cubing.net/?setup=R2_D-...-_F-_R_U_R-_U-_R-_F_R2_U-_R-_U-_//_J&#45;perm



I think this pretty much confirms the Thunderclap as my new main 3x3 cube, something I wasn't expecting.


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## muchacho (May 22, 2016)

That time with no skips, congrats! and awesome tps!


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## h2f (May 22, 2016)

MarcelP said:


> I checked the Wiki.. Yeah it's COLL instead of CMLL.. LOL CMLL (which I know from Roux) does not preserve the edges..



Many of them preserve or with small modifications.

I could do small practice after a dinner sitting in the garden and got few pbs with Roux too. Ao50 26.25, ao12 25.31, ao5 22.41. I can do f2b in 10 seconds but cmll and lse are the worst part of my solves.


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## muchacho (May 22, 2016)

Kill me now, it takes me 15 seconds to build them.


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## mafergut (May 22, 2016)

Very nice PB, Andy @Shaky Hands !!! It was not a lucky solve at all. So imagine what time could you get with a somewhat lucky PLL skip  Also very nice improvement of almost a second over your previous PB. That shows a lot of potential!

By the way I just posted a 4x4 Mo3 in the solve critique thread, here. If anyone wants to give advice it will be more than welcome.


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## CLL Smooth (May 22, 2016)

h2f said:


> I can do f2b in 10 seconds but cmll and lse are the worst part of my solves.


10 sec for F2B seems pretty decent. qqtimer has a CMLL+L6E scrambler under 3x3 subsets. I believe most other timers have this as well. I remember seeing L10P (last 10 pieces) on one. These can be really helpful tools.


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## muchacho (May 22, 2016)

At least on cstimer too.


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## h2f (May 22, 2016)

CLL Smooth said:


> 10 sec for F2B seems pretty decent. qqtimer has a CMLL+L6E scrambler under 3x3 subsets. I believe most other timers have this as well. I remember seeing L10P (last 10 pieces) on one. These can be really helpful tools.



Yes, cstimer has as well. I should try.


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## Chree (May 22, 2016)

And now I wanna practice Roux for some reason. Thanks guys.

Also, I'm gonna get back into BLD. Comp PB is 9:22 and after comp yesterday I know I can improve. Did almost zero practice for it, and of course walked away with 3 DNF's... but still:

1st Attempt: Realized I missed a Corner after 5 minutes of memo... gave up in favor of a fresh start.
2nd Attempt: Much nicer. Image for Corners was "Optimus Prime reading a Magazine on a Skateboard". Off by 2 edges and 2 corners after 5:30ish.
3rd Attempt: Couldn't get a good image for corners so went full audio. Fixed an error successfully, but forgot a twisted corner. 6:30ish.


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## newtonbase (May 22, 2016)

Chree said:


> And now I wanna practice Roux for some reason. Thanks guys.
> 
> Also, I'm gonna get back into BLD. Comp PB is 9:22 and after comp yesterday I know I can improve. Did almost zero practice for it, and of course walked away with 3 DNF's... but still:
> 
> ...


How much time do they give you in total? It's usually 10 mins here. Well done on fixing the error. It's always good to be able to do it. 
That's a great corner memo.


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## Jason Green (May 22, 2016)

So I wanted to get a sub20 ao5 on cam. It was kind of funny because I did some cubing out front yesterday, it was nice out and I did not want to be inside but wanted to practice. After some warm up I turned on the camera, and my first 5 solves I got it! Talk about luck. 

Next I want to shoot for a nicer single on cam, the cam is a good motivator for me. I guess I need to get a sub 16.

Sorry the quality is not real high, I was streaming on FB and it does not let me save HD for some reason.


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## newtonbase (May 22, 2016)

Jason Green said:


> So I wanted to get a sub20 ao5 on cam. It was kind of funny because I did some cubing out front yesterday, it was nice out and I did not want to be inside but wanted to practice. After some warm up I turned on the camera, and my first 5 solves I got it! Talk about luck.
> 
> Next I want to shoot for a nicer single on cam, the cam is a good motivator for me. I guess I need to get a sub 16.
> 
> Sorry the quality is not real high, I was streaming on FB and it does not let me save HD for some reason.


I do like watching your solves. That's how I think I'm solving but my pauses turn out to be much longer when I look back which is why you are so much faster. We also do the same roll of the cube to find the PLL. Your timer stops are pretty brutal!


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## CLL Smooth (May 22, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> We also do the same roll of the cube to find the PLL


I do this also. I like to call it 4-sided PLL recognition.


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## Jason Green (May 22, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> I do like watching your solves. That's how I think I'm solving but my pauses turn out to be much longer when I look back which is why you are so much faster. We also do the same roll of the cube to find the PLL. Your timer stops are pretty brutal!


Thanks! Yeah my pauses are longer than they feel still. I guess that's normal. I'll take brutal as a compliment. 

Edit: I think the stopping is especially dramatic given the flimsy card table I was shaking so badly. Also, I seem to use my left thumb more than fingers which is weird.


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## Isaac Lai (May 23, 2016)

mafergut said:


> By the way I just posted a 4x4 Mo3 in the solve critique thread, here. If anyone wants to give advice it will be more than welcome.



First things first, your first two centres are pretty good, though one thing you'd want to try to do is look for cross pieces while doing your second centre. This may not always be possible, but it does help to be able to do it.
Next, you should probably try solving your cross edges on the left (including the last one). It will allow for easier transition into the last four centres, and it is sometimes also easier to see where all the cross pieces are.
For your last four centres, you should work on building them more efficiently. Watch some example solves or experiment with slow turning and different methods of building them. For example, it is usually more efficient to build two pairs of adjacent centres of the same colour and then form one centre, as opposed to solving centre piece by centre piece.
As mentioned before, you should try to solve your last cross edge with cross on left. This is usually better than rotating first.
For edge pairing, you need to work on lookahead. Every time you insert an edge, ask yourself: which edge should I look for next? Then, it would be possible to do edge pairing with minimal pauses. Also, you should try to insert your edges with combinations of RU and FR to minimise rotations. 
There's not much to say about 3x3 stage, but here's a bonus trick: for the last F2L pair on the third solve, you could have inserted it with R' U2 R2 U R2 U R.


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## h2f (May 23, 2016)

@Jason Green nice ao5.

Edit:

I've finished series of 100 3bld solves. It took me a week or so - I did sometimes no solves but sometimes around 30. Acc is 42% but I treat it like a pracitce and it means I was training and sometimes I got 10 DNFs in a row.

Few statistics:

single
best: 54.04
worst: 2:15.31

mean of 3
current: DNF (σ = 42.13)
best: 1:11.11 (σ = 15.88)

avg of 5
current: DNF (σ = 58.19)
best: 1:17.13 (σ = 5.62)

avg of 12
current: DNF (σ = 48.17)
best: 1:29.18 (σ = 12.78)


Mean: 1:30.03


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## Logiqx (May 23, 2016)

MarcelP said:


> Definatly block building. I want to be able to solve like Phil Yu. If I get the hang of it I will learn the CMLL to become faster at last layer (CMLL leaves the easiest and fastest PLLs for me).



COLL is the new cool in the crusty club.


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## h2f (May 23, 2016)

Logiqx said:


> COLL is the new cool in the crusty club.



Definietly. It's very usefull in big cubes


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## mafergut (May 23, 2016)

h2f said:


> Definietly. It's very usefull in big cubes


I will have to learn it, then. Probably also quite useful for OH in combination with some EO.


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## muchacho (May 23, 2016)

I guess in big cubes and OH the algs used for EPLL are [R,U] and not [M,U], right? Maybe [M, U] is faster in 4x4?


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## mafergut (May 23, 2016)

muchacho said:


> I guess in big cubes and OH the algs used for EPLL are [R,U] and not [M,U], right? Maybe [M, U] is faster in 4x4?


I use [R, U] algs in any case for Us and Z, even though I also learned [M, U] ones for y2 orientation of Us but I rarely use them. The only [M, U] I use in 3x3 is H perm and, for this I also learned the [R, U] one which I use for OH as I can't really table abuse but I assume you being a Roux solver will have an easier time with that as you'll need it (table abuse) for L6E.

For 4x4 H-perm I use the [M, U] as it is clearly faster... if the two middle slices do not misalign but doing it properly and not trying to go super-fast it is still faster than the RU. Yesterday I was trying it on the Yuxin 5x5 and with some additional amount of carefulness it also worked quite well. Anyway, it's easy to learn and good to have in your arsenal. For 6x6 and up I don't see me doing the MU 

By the way, I had read it on Tapatalk and forgot to reply. Thanks a lot @Isaac Lai for your comments and suggestions about my 4x4 solves. Glad to know that there is at least one step I'm not terrible at . I really appreciate you taking the time to help me. I will try to implement all those suggestions and see where that takes me. A sub 1min single and sub 1:15 Ao5 would be a nice achievement before the end of the year.


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## Shaky Hands (May 23, 2016)

muchacho said:


> That time with no skips, congrats! and awesome tps!





mafergut said:


> Very nice PB, Andy @Shaky Hands !!! It was not a lucky solve at all. So imagine what time could you get with a somewhat lucky PLL skip  Also very nice improvement of almost a second over your previous PB. That shows a lot of potential!



Thanks both. The more I think back to this solve, I just remember being really relaxed when doing it. Indeed, if there's nothing lucky in the solve then my potential is for lower times than the one I got. I will see how things progress, but am feeling optimistic even if it was very much an outlier to my average. Cheers!


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## mafergut (May 23, 2016)

Isaac Lai said:


> There's not much to say about 3x3 stage, but here's a bonus trick: for the last F2L pair on the third solve, you could have inserted it with R' U2 R2 U R2 U R.



Also, very very nice alg for this F2L case. I will implement it, for sure!


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## Logiqx (May 23, 2016)

muchacho said:


> I guess in big cubes and OH the algs used for EPLL are [R,U] and not [M,U], right? Maybe [M, U] is faster in 4x4?



My approach:
3x3: U, Z, H = MU
4x4: U, Z = RU, H = MU
5x5+: U, Z, H = RU
OH: U, Z, H = RU



mafergut said:


> I will have to learn it, then. Probably also quite useful for OH in combination with some EO.



Yes. It is great for OH. The COLL algs are OH friendly and an RU finish (2/3 time = U-perm) or EPLL skip is the ideal scenario.


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## mark49152 (May 23, 2016)

Logiqx said:


> My approach:
> 3x3: U, Z, H = MU
> 4x4: U, Z = RU, H = MU
> 5x5+: U, Z, H = RU
> OH: U, Z, H = RU


My approach:
3x3: all MU
4x4 & 5x5: Ux, Z, H = MU; Uy = RU
6x6+: RU

I can't remember which way round Ua and Ub are, so by Ux I mean the MU alg that has U turns, and Uy is that one with U' turns. My Z and H are only U turns. The reason is that I do Ms left handed and on bigger cubes it's the U' turns than mess me up in MU algs. Thus Uy is the only one I replace with RU, until 6x6 when M slices become too awkward.

On 3x3 and 4x4, I do M slices with left middle, or middle-ring double flicks. On 5x5, I do them with middle and ring together, with a separate move for each quarter turn.


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## muchacho (May 23, 2016)

Wow I did not expect any were using MU in 5x5.

This is how LSE on a 7x7 looks (@6:42, 13:00 and 20:08)... probably it's harder than it looks.


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## kbrune (May 23, 2016)

Some highlights from Day 2 yesterday. I was too zombie to post this after comp lol

First result in 6x6 of 7:28.xx

Beat my single for 5x5 with a 2:53.xx

3BLD was a disaster. Was quite upset since I've been improving alot lately. During first attempt. Memo was very good and quick for me. Then during execution the kid judging the guy next to me starts talking to people loudly. Messed me up. This after there were 2 announcements made to respect silence during blind events. Second attempt. I was still upset from previous solve. Forgot my memo during execution. Third attempt went well except for I messed up one alg so I was off by 3 edges. I'm going to invest in headset for future BLD.

4X4 cutoff for ao5 was 1:30
I got a 1:30.06 and a 1:30.62 lol 

coming up short was a theme for this comp. 

3x3 I came in 49th. They took 48 for Round 2

Missed 4x4 cutoff by 0.69 in total for both solves

Second round Pyra I came in 17th
Top 16 moved on to finals lol

Overall it was a great comp and it felt good to be back solving officially! On to Boston this weekend coming!


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## Isaac Lai (May 23, 2016)

mafergut said:


> By the way, I had read it on Tapatalk and forgot to reply. Thanks a lot @Isaac Lai for your comments and suggestions about my 4x4 solves. Glad to know that there is at least one step I'm not terrible at . I really appreciate you taking the time to help me. I will try to implement all those suggestions and see where that takes me. A sub 1min single and sub 1:15 Ao5 would be a nice achievement before the end of the year.


No problem and good luck with your goals too!


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## mark49152 (May 23, 2016)

@kbrune : Yeah I recommend earmuffs. They don't zero the sound but they muffle it enough that it is less distracting. Some people do the opposite and practise in noisy environments so that they become resistant to the distraction.


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## Chree (May 23, 2016)

kbrune said:


> 3BLD was a disaster. Was quite upset since I've been improving alot lately. During first attempt. Memo was very good and quick for me. Then during execution the kid judging the guy next to me starts talking to people loudly. Messed me up. This after there were 2 announcements made to respect silence during blind events. Second attempt. I was still upset from previous solve. Forgot my memo during execution. Third attempt went well except for I messed up one alg so I was off by 3 edges. I'm going to invest in headset for future BLD.



You should request an extra attempt if something like this happens. Especially if it's a judge doing the distracting, since they really have to know better.

I found at that those headsets really don't do much for nearby noises, so chances are you would've still been just as distracted. I sat next to the competitor waiting area during my attempts, and at no point were they completely silent. I felt like I could hear everything.


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## kbrune (May 23, 2016)

@mark49152

I would actually try that but I don't have any practice time where I could be in noisy places.

@Chree

I didn't realize asking for that was an option. Now I know! 
Good to know about the headsets. I'll try it out before I buy one to see if it'll work for me.


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## Gordon (May 23, 2016)

Hello again 

After more than a year without serious cubing (and without this thread), I was at a competition yesterday. I had no expectations and just wanted to be there for fun.

I was very surprised that my 3x3 and 4x4 times were not that bad compared to the ones at my last comp. I think the missing practice only reflected in the 2x2 and 5x5 solves.

*2x2*: 16.21, 18.30, 11.02, 7.52, 12.48
*5x5*: 4:49.46, 5:17.40
*4x4*: 1:45.30, 2:26.55, 2:13.72, DNF, 1:46.77
*3x3*: 32.16, 23.91, 27.93, 26.43, 22.46

A funny thing is, that the 22.46 3x3 is a new official single PB, which I figured out just now, when I looked up my times on cubecomps... hooray


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## newtonbase (May 23, 2016)

Logiqx said:


> My approach:
> 3x3: U, Z, H = MU
> 4x4: U, Z = RU, H = MU
> 5x5+: U, Z, H = RU
> OH: U, Z, H = RU





mark49152 said:


> My approach:
> 3x3: all MU
> 4x4 & 5x5: Ux, Z, H = MU; Uy = RU
> 6x6+: RU


Do you guys know the U-perms from multiple angles?


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## Logiqx (May 23, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> Do you guys know the U-perms from multiple angles?



I know two angles for the MU algs; bar at front / back. I only know the RU algs with the bar at the back but I intend to learn the algs when the bar is at the front (2H + OH).

I was perfectly happy with one alg for each case until I started to learn COLL. I figure it's worth knowing the additional U perms for a little extra saving, especially after I've gone to the effort of learning 28 COLL cases.


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## muchacho (May 23, 2016)

Welcome @Gordon

New PBs on 4x4
Ao5: 1:56.246 (was 2:01.064 from 12-may-15)
Ao12: 2:00.512 (was 2:11.696 from 16-may-15)

Now time to practice Meyer (like Yau for Roux), first I wanted (with no particular reason) to be sub-2 with 1-1 pairing, no sub-2 but close enough.


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## newtonbase (May 23, 2016)

Logiqx said:


> I know two angles for the MU algs; bar at front / back. I only know the RU algs with the bar at the back but I intend to learn the algs when the bar is at the front (2H + OH).


That's what I know too but I'll add the MU with bar at the back soon. It's very similar.


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## mafergut (May 23, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> Do you guys know the U-perms from multiple angles?


I happen to know the RU Us for bar at front and because of that I just learned the MU ones for bar at back. The MU algs for bar at front / back are very easy to learn from the other, because they just change an M for an M' and the other way around. Meanwhile, the RU ones are a bit harder as they are either the L/R mirror executed with a z rotation so L becomes U and U becomes R (for left handed OH, that is) or the same alg in reverse so I have never got to learn them. I think in this case it's worth the effort to avoid the extra U2. I also know the U-perm + U2 algs but I have never used them in speedsolves.

Also @Gordon, welcome!


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## Chree (May 23, 2016)

Sometimes I still practice the Petrus U Perms, ("Allan", http://lar5.com/cube/fas7.html) with the Bar on Left or Right. There are fun finger tricks you can do for those. They're also really easy to teach to beginners, so that's what I taught my girlfriend instead of the RU algs.

I don't use them in speedsolves, though, and especially not in comp. I will use them for 8x8+ cubes, however. They come in real handy for Huge cubes because they're such a low move count.

Also, because I spend way too much time with Big Cubes, I've gotten real used to the RU Z Perm, and use it for 2H 3x3. Every once in a while I remind myself to practice the MU Z Perm just in case I feel ambitious enough to switch back... which hasn't happened yet.


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## EvilGnome6 (May 23, 2016)

AZCubing Spring 2016 went down on Saturday and it was a very successful event. My main objective was to improve on my 6x6 record and I succeeded. These solves are right on average for me. I would have loved to have gotten a sub-4 single but those are still too far between at the moment. Maybe next time.

*6x6*: 4:21.72, 4:24.19, *4:17.08* mean *4:21.00*

Here was my best attempt:






I didn't have any outstanding singles in 3x3, but I did manage to set a new PB average in the second round:

*3x3*: 21.15, 22.71, *20.22*, 23.25, 30.05 avg *22.37*

My best attempt was a 19.42 in the first round:






2x2 was uneventful because I didn't have any time to warm up.

*2x2*: 6.62, 6.34, *5.86*, 7.33, 7.24 avg *6.73*

My best attempt of 5.86:






Besides 6x6, the other highlight of the day came during 3x3 OH. My average wasn't very good due to 2 bad solves, but I got a 33.93 single on my third attempt.

*3x3 OH*: 36.91, 1:05.73, *33.93*, 50.30, 1:13.89 avg *50.98*






Between last week and this week, I think I have moved up the rankings a bit in the 40 club.


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## newtonbase (May 23, 2016)

Gordon said:


> Hello again
> 
> After more than a year without serious cubing (and without this thread), I was at a competition yesterday. I had no expectations and just wanted to be there for fun.
> 
> ...



Hi Gordon. Well done on your results.


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## h2f (May 23, 2016)

EvilGnome6 said:


> AZCubing Spring 2016 went down on Saturday and it was a very successful event. My main objective was to improve on my 6x6 record and I succeeded. These solves are right on average for me. I would have loved to have gotten a sub-4 single but those are still too far between at the moment. Maybe next time.
> 
> *6x6*: 4:21.72, 4:24.19, *4:17.08* mean *4:21.00*
> 
> Here was my best attempt:



Awsome. I was wondering how far I can go in 6x6 and it means sub5 is possible for me. 

Congrats,


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## mark49152 (May 23, 2016)

kbrune said:


> I would actually try that but I don't have any practice time where I could be in noisy places.


On Gianfranco Huanqui's channel there's a vid of him practising while playing crowd noise on a sound system.

Also, regarding appealing about distraction, I don't know for a fact but I suspect that it wouldn't succeed, the reason being that it's difficult to determine what amounts to a distraction, and what distracts one person may not distract another. It would be an easy way for a less scrupulous competitor to abandon a difficult scramble. If any delegates are reading, it would be good to know what they would do. Anyhow, I do recommend trying earmuffs - they might not help everybody, but they help me, and it's worth a try.

And @Gordon, nice to see you back!


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## h2f (May 23, 2016)

Earmuffs help me too though I had a low budget ones and they are poor. I think it's a kind of habit lets me to focus. And maybe this is the role the play in 3bld for some blinders. I've noticed they put it in 4bld and 5bld even if there are only few people.

Edit: I had skewb session. Sub10 ao12 finally. I really like this puzzle and MFG skewb is great. I used Z and H perm in solves.


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## Logiqx (May 23, 2016)

I just did a monster 2x2 session whilst watching TV... 260 solves.

I was a bit sloppy for a lot of the session but I maintained some focus after 200 solves; Ao5/Ao12 of 4.06/4.46.

In other news... globally averaging sub-3 on 5x5 (some way off UK cut-offs but it's feeling do-able) and around 17-17.5 on 3x3.


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## cubizh (May 24, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> Also, regarding appealing about distraction, I don't know for a fact but I suspect that it wouldn't succeed, the reason being that it's difficult to determine what amounts to a distraction, and what distracts one person may not distract another. It would be an easy way for a less scrupulous competitor to abandon a difficult scramble. If any delegates are reading, it would be good to know what they would do.



This problem is addressed in Article 11: Incidents of the regulations.
There are several types of incidents that can occur. The situation you are referring can mainly come from two origins: a disturbance derived from 11a2), which obviously grant an extra attempt for the affected competitors, and disturbances that fall into 11d).
Disturbances caused by other competitors can be tricky to decide and they will always fall under the fair judgement of the WCA Delegate.
The affected competitor should follow the steps of 11e) and provide all possible details, in this case, multiple witnesses of the issue can be taken into consideration. But ultimately it's always a decision made by the WCA Delegate, who takes into consideration the level of disturbance and the intent. It's not an easy decision to make most times and it always depends on the situation at hand.

Just a note: although recommended, BLD events don't have to occur in completely silent environments, and some background noise is accepted, particularly if the conditions are the same for everyone, so what some may consider disturbing may not be for others, so it has to always be something noticable. It's advised for those that tend to get distracted to of course wear earmuffs.

Here are two examples:
This first one, I would give an extra for the competitor that would claim a distraction from the loud announcement close by:


Spoiler











On this second one, although the noise being unbelievably loud (and blind events would possibly not have occured), I would not grant an extra if a competitor claimed he was distracted because of the background noise, as it is the same for everyone and is not a particular intereference on one competitor's attempt.


Spoiler


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## earth2dan (May 24, 2016)

Wow, I can't possibly quote all the posts, but congrats to everyone who's posted PB's and great comp results in the last few days. Nice! Especially @kbrune, I'm sure this comp was a great warm up for the upcoming Boston comp.

Regarding noise distractions at comps. I can't say from experience but living with wife, kids, cats, and a dog I'm sure I'll be able to handle anything a comp atmosphere can throw at me if I ever get to one .


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## newtonbase (May 24, 2016)

I used ear plugs for my first blind attempt. They blocked out everything bar one particularly loud mother which was more distracting than any crowd noise. I don't bother using any ear protection now but would reconsider if I could find something that blocked out everything.


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## mafergut (May 24, 2016)

EvilGnome6 said:


> AZCubing Spring 2016 went down on Saturday and it was a very successful event. [...] Between last week and this week, I think I have moved up the rankings a bit in the 40 club.



Nice results and videos! I like seeing videos of you guys at comps a lot, even though it reminds me of the fact that I have not been to one yet 



Logiqx said:


> I just did a monster 2x2 session whilst watching TV... 260 solves.
> I was a bit sloppy for a lot of the session but I maintained some focus after 200 solves; Ao5/Ao12 of 4.06/4.46.
> In other news... globally averaging sub-3 on 5x5 (some way off UK cut-offs but it's feeling do-able) and around 17-17.5 on 3x3.



Exactly my point the other day when I was commenting that it's easy to do lots of 2x2 solves in a short period of time and the main reason I don't practice big cubes more (5x5 and beyond). Also very nice global average on 3x3!!

I did yesterday my first timed session in a while. It was just an Ao50 and I had to do it with my non-main Yuexiao (Tanglong still waiting for cleaning). It was not bad at all for just a 50 solve session (my PB Ao50s are almost always the best Ao50 within a longer session of at least 100 solves or more), with an average of 18.75 and only 3 failed solves (sup-23) and 12 sub-17 solves. Funny how my most likely result by far is 18.xx with 14 solves in that range. I got no PBs but probably my 2nd best Ao12 ever with 17.78. Maybe I have not become slower at 3x3 after all with the diversified training as I was fearing.


Spoiler: Histogram



13: X 1
14: X 1
15: XXXX 4
16: XXXXXX 6
17: XXXXX 5
18: XXXXXXXXXXXXXX 14
19: XXXXX 5
20: XXXX 4
21: XXXXX 5
22: XX 2
23+ XXX 3


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## mark49152 (May 24, 2016)

@cubizh, thanks for the info. That makes sense. I first watched Tom's OcR with the sound down so didn't notice how shocking the noise level was. Looks like an organisation fail, and the guy who made most of the noise is the first to congratulate Tom, too . Sigh...


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## h2f (May 24, 2016)

So silent here.... 

Another ao100 low 11.xx and new pbs in ao5 8.60 and ao12 9.63. But mostly my ao 12 is between 10-11 seconds. Skewb of course.


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## mafergut (May 24, 2016)

h2f said:


> So silent here....
> 
> Another ao100 low 11.xx and new pbs in ao5 8.60 and ao12 9.63. But mostly my ao 12 is between 10-11 seconds. Skewb of course.


In this forum it might not be necessary to clarify but just for a sec I thought it was 3x3


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## Jason Green (May 24, 2016)

h2f said:


> So silent here....
> 
> Another ao100 low 11.xx and new pbs in ao5 8.60 and ao12 9.63. But mostly my ao 12 is between 10-11 seconds. Skewb of course.


I was thinking 2x2 at first. Sounds closer to my times, well I'm a little better than that at 2x2. I did not time any of my dozen or so skewb solves.


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## MarcelP (May 24, 2016)

h2f said:


> So silent here....
> 
> Another ao100 low 11.xx and new pbs in ao5 8.60 and ao12 9.63. But mostly my ao 12 is between 10-11 seconds. Skewb of course.


I had not practiced Skewb since your video of how to start. And this weekend at competition I did not even warm up, costing me a DNF start since I forgot how to solve.. LOL.. solve 2,3 and 4 where all in the 30 secs range which I was happy with. Last one 1.00.08 (DNF) costing me the AVG. I enjoyed the mid three solves so much that I will start doing Skweb in weekly competition too


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## mafergut (May 24, 2016)

MarcelP said:


> I had not practiced Skewb since your video of how to start. And this weekend at competition I did not even warm up, costing me a DNF start since I forgot how to solve.. LOL.. solve 2,3 and 4 where all in the 30 secs range which I was happy with. Last one 1.00.08 (DNF) costing me the AVG. I enjoyed the mid three solves so much that I will start doing Skweb in weekly competition too



So many events, so little time


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## h2f (May 24, 2016)

MarcelP said:


> I had not practiced Skewb since your video of how to start. And this weekend at competition I did not even warm up, costing me a DNF start since I forgot how to solve.. LOL.. solve 2,3 and 4 where all in the 30 secs range which I was happy with. Last one 1.00.08 (DNF) costing me the AVG. I enjoyed the mid three solves so much that I will start doing Skweb in weekly competition too



That's why I started it. How's your comp organizing?


mafergut said:


> So many events, so little time


Yes. I stopped doing weekly competition because of choice: WC events or dedicated practice session.  I need to back to it.


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## mafergut (May 24, 2016)

h2f said:


> That's why I started it. How's your comp organizing?
> 
> Yes. I stopped doing weekly competition because of choice: WC events or dedicated practice session.  I need to back to it.


Same here. I just do 2-3-4 and OH lately at WC since I started with my policy of 2-3 weeks in a row practising the same event. For now it has worked very well with 4x4. The issue is that I might forget how to solve other puzzles like skewb, pyra, etc. if don't practice them at all for months. In fact it has happened already with M2  I've forgotten half the specific algs for M-slice targets. Also with the basic SQ-1 method I learned, which was not very fast anyway.


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## h2f (May 24, 2016)

Same me. I forgot specific algs in sq1. But I know when I'm back it'll be easy to remeber it.


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## JanW (May 24, 2016)

So many events indeed. Impressive how you all can manage to practice such a wide variety of events. I'm sticking to 3x3 for now, though I would like to get back into 3bld as well. My 4x4 and 5x5 have received very little attention, unfortunately. The 2x2 I bought was so horrible that I probably never did more than a couple of solves on it. Skewb, sq1, minxes... eh... I might get there, some day.

But at least 3x3 is progressing. Got 3rd consecutive success in race to Sub 30 (barely), so now I can start thinking about what to do next. Either go all ZZ, or do more ZZ while still also solving with my old technique, possibly aiming for race to Sub 25. 

How do you guys do it when you switch to a new technique? For example CFOP to roux. Do you drop the old technique immediately to only practice the one you're trying to learn, or do you also keep trying to improve with your old technique?


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## muchacho (May 24, 2016)

Probably wiser to drop the old one if you are sure of the change and don't have an official competition soon (and you don't care about the forum ones).

Congrats!


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## Jason Green (May 24, 2016)

@JanW, I don't switch.  Well that's not totally true I used to do Petrus but dropped it like a rock when I got into speed cubing. If I ever learn CLL I will surely continue with Ortega while I learn it. I doubt I'll learn much else for 3x3 than CFOP, but who knows. 

Glad I could be of no help. [emoji14]


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## mafergut (May 24, 2016)

@JanW, I would also recommend to drop the old method completely but that would be if you just want to switch to the new one. A different story is if you just want to learn a second method.


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## h2f (May 24, 2016)

@JanW It's hard to say for me. I switched to Roux few times and left CFOP completly. After few times I know I can go back to CFOP in few days and back to older level. In fact the most imporatant thing is look ahead and it works the same with any method you are comfortable. But as I mentioned it's hard to say due to fact I keep practicing 6x6 with Hoya and CFOP. So I didnt stopped CFOP.


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## JanW (May 24, 2016)

Thanks all! Good point about look ahead. That's where I still have a lot to improve, and it should improve no matter what method I use.

I do kind of want to drop the old method, because it was pretty much a dead end with no natural way to proceed. If I go back to layer by layer later, it would be after I've learned PLL and aiming for CFOP and learning OLL.

Switching completely would mean very much slower solves for a while. Hard to tell how fast I can improve with ZZ. I only did 12 timed solves last week, averaged slightly under 45 seconds. But since those were the first attempts at fast solves, I would expect some seconds to fall off quite quickly. I'll try to do a couple of hundred solves this week to see where I'm at.


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## Jason Green (May 25, 2016)

I'm kind of slow sometimes, but I just realized you can easily do multi quote with Tapatalk, maybe it's new with the forum change? Just tap the posts you want to select, and in the top right it shows a little text bubble with dots. Click that to reply to all. And it works across pages! That will be great for me sometimes!


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## Gordon (May 25, 2016)

At the competition last weekend, I randomly bought a new cube, which I thought was very nice. It was a WeiLong GTS. I had never heard from it before, and now I figured out, that it is the newest one of MoYu. You see, I have missed a lot during the last year.

After using it a bit, I realy start to like it very much, and I consider using it as my new main, replacing the Gans something (356?).

Now that I am visiting thecubicle for stickers in my prefered colors, I have seen so many new cubes. I now wonder what else I have missed. Do you have any suggestions for 2x2 - 5x5 and Skewb?

My current favorites are:
- 2x2: DaYan 50mm
- 4x4: some MoYu (not sure which, WeiSu or AuSu, how can I find it out?)
- 5x5: some MoYu (again... not sure which, HuaChuang or AuChuang, how can I find it out?)
- Skewb: ShengShou (I have a MoYu, but I prefer the ShengShou)

I have also bought a stickerless BoChuang GT but just to have a stickerless cube. Do you think it is worth a try?


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## muchacho (May 25, 2016)

2x2: @mafergut also likes the Moyu Weipo
4x4: Aosu or Guansu
5x5: add Yuxin to those
Skewb: Qiyi

I ordered the Weilong GTS a few days ago, hope it's as good as all people say.


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## SpeedCubeReview (May 25, 2016)

Gordon said:


> At the competition last weekend, I randomly bought a new cube, which I thought was very nice. It was a WeiLong GTS. I had never heard from it before, and now I figured out, that it is the newest one of MoYu. You see, I have missed a lot during the last year.
> 
> After using it a bit, I realy start to like it very much, and I consider using it as my new main, replacing the Gans something (356?).
> 
> ...


2x2: pick up a WeiPo (I suggest stickerless)

4x4: They are coming out with a new AoSu soon. The YuSu R is the latest from YJ and is far better than the GuanSu but If I had to say one to try, get a Cyclone Boys G4. It is slightly smaller, fast, hard to pop, and not too expensive. I like it over the AoSu.

5x5: BoChuang. It's way different from their older 5x5s. I would consider it the best one out there.


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## SpeedCubeReview (May 25, 2016)

So I went to my first comp. a couple weeks ago and had the odd moment of sitting with the young kids or the parents (there were a few older cubers too). In the end I spent a lot more time with the kids.


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## h2f (May 25, 2016)

Closer to sub25 ao100 Roux. First ao12 sub25 and for a long time my mean in session was around 26 but finally stopped at 27.xx. I've started new ao100 and after 40 solves I got new single pb 16.96

R2 D' B2 D2 R2 B2 F2 U' B2 U L2 F' L D' F2 U' F R' F L2 F2

z' y
B U' B2
r U' r' U' r2 R U R' U2 r' U' r U' M2 U2 r U R'
U2 U R U2 R' U' R U' R' U' R U R' U R U2 R' //cmll, eo skip
U' R' U R' U' R' U' R' U R U R2 U'/ Uperm

alg.cubing.net

51stm, TPS=3


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## muchacho (May 25, 2016)

Holy moly! I thought I would be safe for a couple of months or so, but you'll catch me faster than I thought.

Congrats, I got 21.550 on that scramble. Did you saw that the F2L was going to be done or you tried to finish it on purpose?


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## Lid (May 25, 2016)

h2f said:


> U2 U R U2 R' U' R U' R' U' R U R' U R U2 R' //cmll, eo skip
> U' R' U R' U' R' U' R' U R U R2 U'/ Uperm


Looks like you missed the 1LLL solution, and as a blinder you should know this case?
y' R U2 R' U' R U' R' r' F2 r U r' F r
14 moves instead of the 30 you did, would have been a 10.31 at the same tps 

edit: You can use this alg instead, R U R' U R U2 R2 U' R U' R' U2 R (sune front + sune back), this is the standard CxLL.


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## h2f (May 25, 2016)

No, I dont know that alg I use something else for twists. I used to antisune U sune mix but maybe I will try the one you gave. I didnt notice it's only a twist during speedsolve. My look ahead is still poor.


muchacho said:


> Holy moly! I thought I would be safe for a couple of months or so, but you'll catch me faster than I thought.
> 
> Congrats, I got 21.550 on that scramble. Did you saw that the F2L was going to be done or you tried to finish it on purpose?



Which one f2l? The first in second block - no, i didnt notice it. After SB I know all edges are oriented.

Edit: @Lid Standard COLL is much better, yeah.


----------



## JanW (May 25, 2016)

Lid said:


> Looks like you missed the 1LLL solution, and as a blinder you should know this case?
> y' R U2 R' U' R U' R' r' F2 r U r' F r
> 14 moves instead of the 30 you did, would have been a 10.31 at the same tps


Interesting alg! I've been using 
y' R' U2 R U R' U R U2 R U2 R' U' R U' R' (anti-sune back + U2 + anti-sune front)

Easier to remember, though your alg certainly seems faster.


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## Lid (May 25, 2016)

This just turned up during 'casual' cubing ... *14.576 PB *= 14.234, 14.114, (13.553), 15.921, (17.640), no skips.

14.234 F2 B D2 B R' D R' L' F' U' B U2 D2 L2 B D2 R2 F' D2 F2 D2
14.114 R' B2 R U2 L2 U2 F2 R2 F2 R B2 D L' B2 F' L R2 D' B2 F2 R
(13.553) B D' F R F B D F' R' D' L2 F2 L2 U2 F2 B2 R2
15.921 F R F' R B' L U' L D F' B' R2 U2 L2 D2 R2 B' L2 F' U2
(17.640) R D2 L B L' F U R D L2 D F2 D R2 F2 B2 L2 F2 U



@JanW Yes, made for speed, it's just Anti-Sune on right then Anti-Sune on left slightly tweaked.


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## newtonbase (May 25, 2016)

SpeedCubeReview said:


> So I went to my first comp. a couple weeks ago and had the odd moment of sitting with the young kids or the parents (there were a few older cubers too). In the end I spent a lot more time with the kids.


It's a strange situation where young kids are your peers.


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## Chree (May 25, 2016)

Lid said:


> Looks like you missed the 1LLL solution, and as a blinder you should know this case?
> y' R U2 R' U' R U' R' *r' F2 r U r' F r*
> 14 moves instead of the 30 you did, would have been a 10.31 at the same tps



Coolest Sune notation ever.


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## SenorJuan (May 25, 2016)

As I'm skilled in the ancient art of solving the LL 'Edges then Corners', this corner-twist combo:
*y' R U2 R' U' R U' R' r' F2 r U r' F r*
caught my attention.
A more easily remembered and potentially fast equivalent is
z ( U R U' R' )2 D' ( R U R' U' )2 D
and obviously the reverse for the opposite twist case, or you can start with the second twisted corner first, and do D then D'...if that makes sense.
This corner twist case doesn't actually require knowing two algs to solve the two possibilities, if you just flip the cube over so the corners swap places, it becomes the opposite twist case.


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## h2f (May 25, 2016)

SenorJuan said:


> A more easily remembered and potentially fast equivalent is
> z ( U R U' R' )2 D' ( R U R' U' )2 D
> and obviously the reverse for the opposite twist case, or you can start with the second twisted corner first, and do D then D'...if that makes sense.



Or R U R' U' R U R' U' L' undo sexy L and all the variants.


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## SenorJuan (May 25, 2016)

Agreed, quite a few tweaks to the same basic move, plus the opposite corners twisted cases, eg
( R U R' U' )2 L2 ( U R U' R' )2 L2
( R U R' U' )2 D2 ( U R U' R')2 D2
etc.


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## mark49152 (May 25, 2016)

I use the L variant frequently because one of the corners twisted is the OP buffer. I haven't seen the D variant before. That might be useful when there are 2+ twisted corners outside the buffer I guess.


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## Jason Green (May 26, 2016)

Gordon said:


> Do you have any suggestions for 2x2 - 5x5 and Skewb?
> 
> I have also bought a stickerless BoChuang GT but just to have a stickerless cube. Do you think it is worth a try?



2x2 I use a Fangshi, it's not bad but I wouldn't really recommend it. I kind of want to try a Weipo.
3x3 I love my Yuexiao! I used a Gans until I got it. I am also growing interest in the GTS, I have not tried it.
4x4 the CB G4 I enjoy. I have not tried an Aosu though.
5x5 I love the stickerless Bochuang! I have not tried a Yuxin.

BTW, I got into speed cubing around July 2015, probably a little after you quit hanging out here for a while?



SpeedCubeReview said:


> So I went to my first comp. a couple weeks ago and had the odd moment of sitting with the young kids or the parents (there were a few older cubers too). In the end I spent a lot more time with the kids.



My first comp was in January. I was a little nervous about that aspect, but I knew I wanted to sit at a practice table. In the morning I sat with two kids and one dad at a table, the dad actually ended up knowing my wife's sister from elementary school! In the afternoon the only table I saw was all kids. I asked if the seat was free, and when I sat down one of them immediately said, "what's your PB?!" So I fit right in I think. Since then I haven't worried about it.

Shawn (Sean?), I've been watching your Youtube channel lately so it's kind of cool for you to be in the forum. Of course I can comment on Youtube too, but lots of us hang out so much in here I feel like I know the guys... so it's kind of like a celebrity coming to our party.


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## MarcelP (May 26, 2016)

h2f said:


> That's why I started it. How's your comp organizing?


Welll, you could made a really good chance on one of these babies (see attachment) just by entering BLD  Unfortunatly registration was full in no time.. so now it is too late


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## h2f (May 26, 2016)

MarcelP said:


> Welll, you could made a really good chance on one of these babies (see attachment) just by entering BLD  Unfortunatly registration was full in no time.. so now it is too late



Ouch. It's beatifull. You did great job.

I've finished 1000 solves with roux. This shows ao100 changing during it.


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## muchacho (May 26, 2016)

Beautiful!

I'm guessing during the first 400 you were relearning CMLLs, is that? And the reason of the second fast improvement?


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## h2f (May 26, 2016)

muchacho said:


> Beautiful!
> 
> I'm guessing during the first 400 you were relearning CMLLs, is that? And the reason of the second fast improvement?



I dont know, I guess a break and untimed solves.


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## mafergut (May 26, 2016)

h2f said:


> I dont know, I guess a break and untimed solves.


Wow! Nice improvement. So, do you plan on abandoning CFOP on 3x3?


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## h2f (May 26, 2016)

mafergut said:


> Wow! Nice improvement. So, do you plan on abandoning CFOP on 3x3?



Thanks. If I'll see I'm close to sub20 I'll stick with roux.


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## Chree (May 26, 2016)

It's hard to find free time to practice BLD when so much of your life is filled with noise and distractions. Or you worry that staring at a cube for 5 to 7 minutes without actually applying any moves is akin to ignoring your significant other. Still haven't had a success since all those "close calls" at comp. I kinda wanna get at least one more PB before I start learning M2.


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## mafergut (May 26, 2016)

Chree said:


> It's hard to find free time to practice BLD when so much of your life is filled with noise and distractions. *Or you worry that staring at a cube for 5 to 7 minutes without actually applying any moves is akin to ignoring your significant other.* Still haven't had a success since all those "close calls" at comp. I kinda wanna get at least one more PB before I start learning M2.


Exactly my problem 
But you should learn M2 right away.


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## newtonbase (May 26, 2016)

Chree said:


> It's hard to find free time to practice BLD when so much of your life is filled with noise and distractions. Or you worry that staring at a cube for 5 to 7 minutes without actually applying any moves is akin to ignoring your significant other. Still haven't had a success since all those "close calls" at comp. I kinda wanna get at least one more PB before I start learning M2.


I'm there with you but as you have already been told, learn M2 now. It's fun and better!


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## Chree (May 26, 2016)

mafergut said:


> Exactly my problem
> But you should learn M2 right away.





newtonbase said:


> I'm there with you but as you have already been told, learn M2 now. It's fun and better!



Re-watching Noah's videos!


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## kbrune (May 27, 2016)

Too many topics to comment on! I freakin love this thread!

I wish we had the means of organizing a comp for the oldies of this thread. One that we could all attend! That would be the bomb!

@ who ever was talking about the overwhelming amount of events to practice. I feel you guys! I focused on 3x3 for my first 2 years after wanting to be sub 30. I didn't start doing 4x4 or 5x5 till after my first 2 comps at least.. I think. I competed in 2x2 but never put serious practice in until this year. 

I find the WC to be a perfect way of casually keeping my skills in various events at par. Then I have 2-3 events that I try to practice everyday.


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## Jason Green (May 27, 2016)

kbrune said:


> Too many topics to comment on! I freakin love this thread!
> 
> I wish we had the means of organizing a comp for the oldies of this thread. One that we could all attend! That would be the bomb!
> 
> ...


Yeah I had said we should have a senior competition if we could all go. Even if it's open to everyone, we could do oldie awards. So who among us is the secret multi millionaire that will fly us all somewhere? Or maybe some talk show will hear about us and fly us all out for a mini comp on TV.


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## mark49152 (May 27, 2016)

Jason Green said:


> Or maybe some talk show will hear about us and fly us all out for a mini comp on TV.


Desert island cubers. Viewers vote someone off every day .


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## Jason Green (May 27, 2016)

I just can't seem to do any of the things that are supposed to improve my cubing. I do very few untimed solves. I think the thought I might have an awesome solve and not know how fast it was drives me crazy. 

I also can't slow turn or look ahead. I was trying not to rush turning tonight and not having many sub 20s. Then I started going for faster turn speed and was getting lots of them, and a new PB ao5 by a about .3 seconds. When I turn slow it just doesn't help my look ahead enough so I still have the same pauses. Someday maybe...


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## mark49152 (May 27, 2016)

@Jason Green , whatever you're doing already is working. Took me 2 years to get sub-20, a year to get sub-30.


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## Logiqx (May 27, 2016)

All this talk about Roux and ZZ made me do some Petrus solves again. My times have slipped a bit since I'm forcing myself to practice COLL+EPLL but my recall is slower than OCLL+PLL. However, I did get my first sub-20 single yesterday - 18.71. 

I'm awaiting an order from the Cubicle but I'm starting to wonder if they are being delayed in customs or worse still, maybe confiscated. The tracking shows they were in Heathrow on Sunday but nothing since that time. I don't remember it taking so long the last time I order from the US.

1 x MoYu WeiLong GTS
1 x Gans 356S V2 (Master)
1 x MoYu AoSu 4x4
1 x MoYu AoShi 6x6
1 x MoYu Cubic AoFu 7x7 GT
... plus stickers for my Gans356


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## h2f (May 27, 2016)

Nice time, Mike. I'm waiting for Dreidel Simplified which I bought by a facebook group. Intresting puzzle.


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## MarcelP (May 27, 2016)

Logiqx said:


> I'm awaiting an order from the Cubicle...
> 
> 1 x MoYu WeiLong GTS


if you are addicted to Gans 356 (like me)it will be hard to make the change to GTS.



Jason Green said:


> 3x3 I love my Yuexiao! I used a Gans until I got it. I am also growing interest in the GTS, I have not tried it.


If you love the Yuexiao, then you will go nuts over GTS. It is an improved Yuexaio  I have troubles becomming adjusted to it's speed. The speed of this cube is insane.. Just did this 12 secs solve a few minutes ago







Spoiler: About this solve



60. 12.40 D R2 D' F2 B' R2 F' L U L2 F2 U2 R' D2 L' F2 L2 U2 L B2
x2 y // inspection
U' L R2 x' U2 F R U' R' x D2 // VERY STUPID CROSS (12)
R' U R U L' U' L // 1ST (7)
R U' R2 U R // 2D (5)
U' R U' U' R' U' L U L' //3RD (9)
R U' U' R' U R U R' // 4TH (8)
U' R2 U' R' U' R U R U R U' R U2 (13)
//54 in 12.40 = 4.3 TPS
https://alg.cubing.net/?setup=D_R2_..._U_R-_//_4TH
U-_R2_U-_R-_U-_R_U_R_U_R_U-_R_U2


My times are very close to Gans 356 but not quite there yet. The uncontrollabilty (due to speed) is costing me averages because many solve are screwed up. Like the 27 seconds solve before this 12 LOL.. Still, I used this cube in competition and I am working on it to make it my main. The feel of this cube so nice. I think if I get used to the speed I will never like another cube. (Btw, gans feels sluggish after GTS).


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## mark49152 (May 27, 2016)

I haven't posted any 3BLD solves before, so here goes. I wanted to beat the 1:27 official where my camera battery died, but the best I could manage was 4 seconds short . Also got a recent PB of 1:16.96, but not on cam.


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## kbrune (May 27, 2016)

Jason Green said:


> I just can't seem to do any of the things that are supposed to improve my cubing. I do very few untimed solves. I think the thought I might have an awesome solve and not know how fast it was drives me crazy.
> 
> I also can't slow turn or look ahead. I was trying not to rush turning tonight and not having many sub 20s. Then I started going for faster turn speed and was getting lots of them, and a new PB ao5 by a about .3 seconds. When I turn slow it just doesn't help my look ahead enough so I still have the same pauses. Someday maybe...



Don't worry too much about it Jason. I know exactly how you feel. I have the exact same problem when trying to slow turn. My times just get slower. But what I've realized from reading other people's comments and advice over and over again is that slow turn practice isn't really about your times. What it does is it allows you to spot other options and possible new ways of solving. I know that for me. I've noticed that I'm always looking for the same Patterns when turning fast. And I used to think that I just wasn't capable of using certain techniques. But really it's most likely that fast turning has created specific habits that I can't break out of now. 

Moral of the story is that slow turn practice will help your look ahead longterm. Itll allow you extra time to track pieces you miss during higher tps. And the more you do it. Those new tracking skills will be usable at higher speeds once theyre etched in yoir brain. That's what I understood anyway.

Having said all that. That is going to be my next goal. Improving my cross and f2l efficiency.


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## kbrune (May 27, 2016)

@mark49152

I forget what you use for BLD. M2/OP?


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## mark49152 (May 27, 2016)

kbrune said:


> @mark49152
> 
> I forget what you use for BLD. M2/OP?


Yes, plus some advanced M2, and a few corner comms.


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## mafergut (May 27, 2016)

Horay!!! I finished today an Ao100 continuing the Ao50 I did some days ago with the Yuexiao and got a new PB Ao50 (18.39) and Ao100 (18.48) after 3 months without any 3x3 PBs (and, I have to admit, also with barely any Ao100 done in those 3 months). I still lock up quite a bit with the Yuexiao but when I don't, oh my, it's fast! Also lookahead seemed to be quite good... at times. If I could maintain it reliably solve after solve I would get many more 16s and below. I also got PB Ao12 in there and a top 3 Ao5.


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## newtonbase (May 27, 2016)

Nice solves Mark and well done on the PBs mafergut. 

How do I do the @person thing? 

Got my Weilong GTS today. Instant main.


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## CLL Smooth (May 27, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> How do I do the @person thing?


Haha! Person is a member.


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## newtonbase (May 27, 2016)

That's my 100th Like @Jason Green!



CLL Smooth said:


> Haha! Person is a member.


Ha ha!


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## JanW (May 27, 2016)

Encouraging start to my ZZ endeavor. I did 75 timed solves the last 2 days and 50 more today. First 2 days it was a bit slow, but it seems I'm getting the hang of it faster than I expected. All records from today - 1/5/12/50: 27.54/30.63/33.15/35.16. The Ao50 included 10 sub-30 solves and at best there was 16 consecutive sub-40 solves. Quite a leap, considering that the first 2 days I averaged around 44 seconds. This is still all with 2-look OLL.

I find that the EOLine is not that bad. Only once did I manage to mess it up today to find bad edges during F2L. But this part I have also practiced the most. The big difference for today was that I started doing 6 edges mostly as 3+3 instead of 4+2. I knew that this was often the way to go, but hadn't quite wrapped my head around the logic until it clicked today. I'm also getting a lot more comfortable with planning the full EOLine, including how to place FD and BD edges during inspection. Earlier I had some problems following how those pieces would move around while flipping the bad edges. In today's solves, I had that worked out every single time. Inspection time is possibly a bit over 15 seconds though... 

F2L is the tricky part. I know lots of cool fancy tricks, but whenever I try to implement them, it just takes too long. Also, finding the pieces early can be tricky, as any edges can be on the bottom L/R as well.

Last layer is okay, I guess. Getting used to the A-perm now, not confused anymore about which version to use. However, I think it's safe to say that I have the slowest E-perm in this thread. Need to work on that one. Most sub-30 solves had some kind of skip at some point, possibly all of them. If I can manage to learn full OLL PLL for 2lll, this should help quite a bit.

Anyway, maybe I should get back into the race to sub-30 already next week.


----------



## muchacho (May 27, 2016)

Looks good, keep going!

My E-perm would have to include the time to search it in the wiki  (but I'll probably end learning it for BLD)


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## newtonbase (May 27, 2016)

JanW said:


> However, I think it's safe to say that I have the slowest E-perm in this thread. Need to work on that one.


I doubt that 

I'm working as a poll clerk for the European Election in the quietest polling station in the area. I should get a months worth of practice in one day. My fingers will be bleeding.


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## Jason Green (May 27, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> That's my 100th Like @Jason Green!



Not 100th like for my stuff?? Were you just testing the tag? If so it worked.


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## newtonbase (May 27, 2016)

Jason Green said:


> Not 100th like for my stuff?? Were you just testing the tag? If so it worked.


I meant the_ Most Likes_ list which is pretty much a list of older cubers 
https://www.speedsolving.com/forum/members/?type=likes


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## mark49152 (May 27, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> I meant the_ Most Likes_ list which is pretty much a list of older cubers
> https://www.speedsolving.com/forum/members/?type=likes


Oh yeah, haha, seems the "like" button doesn't get used much outside this thread!


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## Jason Green (May 28, 2016)

Sub 18 ao5! It is required to share any PBs here right? 

I gotta do an ao100 this weekend. It looks ridiculous having a 20.x ao50 and 23.x ao100. Haha. Usually when I do 100 towards the end I'm tired and scrapping a lot of solves so I don't count the average.


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## muchacho (May 28, 2016)

Ha, I was thinking you forgot to update your Ao100 PB on the sig.

Congrats!


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## h2f (May 28, 2016)

@Jason Green Few weeks and you are sub20. Amazing.


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## Gordon (May 28, 2016)

Is any of you guys registered on http://cubingtime.com/ ?


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## h2f (May 28, 2016)

I havent done a video for a long time. Here is my ao5. Not best but sub25






@Gordon I was registered at cubmania or something 2 years ago.


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## muchacho (May 28, 2016)

Nice solves!

U2' during LSE seems strange, it's like you lose grip with the cube with your left hand (apart from the thumb).


____
New ao5 PB: 18.780 (was 19.503 from 10-may)_



Spoiler



18739 28-may-2016 14:52:08 00:18.600 L2 D' L2 U' B2 R2 D' L2 D' R2 B' R2 F D2 L U' F D' L B'
18738 28-may-2016 14:51:22 00:17.815 D2 U2 F2 L2 U R2 D' L2 U' L' D' U2 B' R' F2 L2 U B2 R2 U2
18737 28-may-2016 14:50:34 00:24.982 L2 U' F2 L2 D' F2 L2 F2 R2 L2 U B D' R' L' U' L2 D2 U F2 D
18736 28-may-2016 14:49:53 00:19.927 U' R2 F2 D' F2 D' U2 B2 D R2 B2 L' F R2 F' R2 L2 B U' F2 L U2
18735 28-may-2016 14:49:07 00:16.366 F2 L2 U2 B2 F2 D' R2 U2 L2 B2 D2 B D' F' L2 B U R' F U2 F


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## Gordon (May 28, 2016)

I have just finished my first avg of 100 for ages... most of the last 20 solves or so were everything but good. I would have been better for my ego, if I had quit after the first 50...

However, here are the results:

number of times: 100/100
session average: 29.38 (σ = 2.85)
session mean: 29.47 (σ = 3.61)



Spoiler: more



current mean of 3: 35.68 (σ = 3.70)
best mean of 3: 24.72 (σ = 2.74)

current average of 5: 32.06 (σ = 2.59)
best average of 5: 25.65 (σ = 1.50)

current average of 12: 30.30 (σ = 3.19)
best average of 12: 27.08 (σ = 1.76)

current average of 100: 29.38 (σ = 2.85)
best average of 100: 29.38 (σ = 2.85)

best time: 21.66
worst time: 39.95

24.94
29.41
33.11
26.63
31.24
27.23
29.10
28.96
26.93
27.28
34.72
30.00
27.68
29.03
29.22
30.50
29.36
30.24
32.71
23.92
32.43
26.40
23.77
26.63
26.77
32.92
24.58
27.98
29.81
33.56
32.33
27.13
34.89
28.45
21.66
34.76
25.24
29.67
29.10
28.06
28.52
32.32
26.73
22.73
26.35
26.80
34.35
28.51
32.02
29.08
33.78
25.98
34.69
23.68
27.83
22.66
28.26
25.87
32.98
26.56
27.79
26.40
28.44
30.02
25.95
30.47
31.21
27.24
37.24
36.31
28.51
35.24
31.16
27.05
31.97
27.81
38.91
28.02
31.26
27.77
29.10
31.70
25.96
36.27
33.09
28.28
28.64
29.38
25.84
32.12
34.02
25.73
32.18
25.16
27.88
29.07
29.06
33.74
39.95
33.36



Looks like times from 2-3 years ago, but are from today


----------



## JanW (May 28, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> Oh yeah, haha, seems the "like" button doesn't get used much outside this thread!


A clear sign of where the most likeable people on this board are hanging out. 

Perm of the day: F-perm. I really like this one. Nice, regripless and quite fast. I instinctively started doing it so that I place right ring finger at DFR at the start and the finger stays glued to that sticker throughout, guiding the R layer and doing all the clockwise R moves. This seems to work pretty well for me.

I can't promise I'll add one new PLL alg/day, most likely I won't. But tomorrow I'll go for J-perms. I figured I'll start with those that are easy to recognize, those with one solved face. That way, during solves I won't need to spend much time pondering if the PLL case is one that I already know, before I go on with 2 look PLL.


----------



## MarcelP (May 28, 2016)

I bought a new camera today. A cheap immitation GoPro. It was only 44 euro's but the quality is awesome.. I tried filming a short average. And what do you know.. I got a full step 12 secs solve in there.. Although I had two on cam this week, these are very rare.. LOL anyway, I modded the Weilong GTS. Small corner mod, and changed the stickers to my own scheme and it is perfect now.








Spoiler: reconstruction of the 12 sec solve



4. 19.67 F2 U' D2 F' L' B' D R L F2 U B2 R2 B2 D2 R2 D B2 R2 F2
5. 16.20 F2 U' B2 U L2 U' B2 U2 F2 U R2 B U2 B R2 F2 U2 L R D' R
6. 17.72 F D F' U' L' B' D2 B' R U' F2 U R2 D' R2 F2 U2 R2 D R2
7. *12.92* B' F2 R2 D' B2 L2 U' F2 L2 U' B2 L2 R' F L2 D U2 L' D' L2 R
8. 17.01 U2 F2 L B R U2 B U B U D R2 D L2 D F2 D B2 D2 B2

//12.92 B' F2 R2 D' B2 L2 U' F2 L2 U' B2 L2 R' F L2 D U2 L' D' L2 R
y2 // inspection
R' D R' L F2 // CROSS (5)
U2 U L U' L' // 1ST (5)
y' R' U R U' R' U' R //2ND (8)
R U2 R' U2 R U' R' //3RD (7)
y' U2 L' U L U' L' U' L // 4TH (10)
f R U R' U' f' // OLL (6)
R2 U' R' U' R U R U R U' R U2 // PLL 12
//53 MOVES IN 12.92 = 4.1 TPS
alg.cubing


----------



## h2f (May 28, 2016)

MarcelP said:


> //12.92 B' F2 R2 D' B2 L2 U' F2 L2 U' B2 L2 R' F L2 D U2 L' D' L2 R
> y2 // inspection
> R' D R' L F2 // CROSS (5)
> U2 U L U' L' // 1ST (5)
> ...



Awsome. Nice tps and lookahead.



muchacho said:


> Nice solves!
> 
> U2' during LSE seems strange, it's like you lose grip with the cube with your left hand (apart from the thumb).



Thank you. I hope it works. It was hard to me to make U2' but I do M/M' with right hand so it was hard to me to make U2.


----------



## muchacho (May 28, 2016)

Yeah, hard... I don't even try, I do U U instead of U2 during LSE, and also no M2 most of the time.

I also use the right hand for M/M'. I can't see clearly, do you do M with right pinky pushing from FD to BD?


----------



## h2f (May 28, 2016)

I do M with ring finger from FD to DB and M' inverserly. M2 is a kind of flick with middle finger and ring finger.


----------



## moralsh (May 28, 2016)

Hi guys! 

Meh first day of comp with bad results overall but with one nice result which makes for all of them:





I'll try to write a bit more tomorrow

Full results: http://cubecomps.com/live.php?cid=1539&compid=2


----------



## mark49152 (May 28, 2016)

moralsh said:


> one nice result which makes for all of them:


Hey that's great Raul, well done and congrats! . Do you have the rest of the solve on video?


----------



## mark49152 (May 28, 2016)

MarcelP said:


> I bought a new camera today.


Nice. We are expecting lots of great quality footage from your comp now .

Your desk looks like you have been doing a big MBLD


----------



## moralsh (May 28, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> Hey that's great Raul, well done and congrats! . Do you have the rest of the solve on video?


I think so, I should have everything but the first 5 minutes of memo if the camera recorded correctly, Will check it tomorrow 

And thanks!


----------



## Logiqx (May 29, 2016)

JanW said:


> If I can manage to learn full OLL for 2lll, this should help quite a bit.



Do you really mean "full OLL" when you are using ZZ? You only need the 7 OCLL cases and 21 PLL cases. I'd also recommend learning COLL so that you have the option of COLL + EPLL or OCLL + PLL.



Jason Green said:


> Sub 18 ao5! It is required to share any PBs here right?



Wow. Great improvement and nearly sub-20 globally!



Gordon said:


> Is any of you guys registered on http://cubingtime.com/ ?



I'm registered but I haven't done anything with it yet. It was more out of curiosity to see what features it provides.


----------



## MarcelP (May 29, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> Your desk looks like you have been doing a big MBLD


Yeah, my best so dat is 57/57. I just can't seem to break the one minuten per cube when doing multiple blind.


----------



## mark49152 (May 29, 2016)

MarcelP said:


> Yeah, my best so dat is 57/57. I just can't seem to break the one minuten per cube when doing multiple blind.


With a couple of skewbs added just make it harder?


----------



## JanW (May 29, 2016)

Logiqx said:


> Do you really mean "full OLL" when you are using ZZ? You only need the 7 OCLL cases and 21 PLL cases. I'd also recommend learning COLL so that you have the option of COLL + EPLL or OCLL + PLL.


Sorry, typo. Meant PLL, of course. Regarding COLL, I might look into that at some point, but first I must learn PLL. Learning PLL is one of the main reasons I switched to ZZ, and COLL would make full PLL reduntant.

I already know 3/6 COLL algs for the L case. I might learn the rest and use COLL whenever the L comes up.


----------



## h2f (May 29, 2016)

moralsh said:


> Hi guys!
> 
> Meh first day of comp with bad results overall but with one nice result which makes for all of them:
> 
> ...



Great results. And you are the first in 5bld. Congrats.




MarcelP said:


> Yeah, my best so dat is 57/57. I just can't seem to break the one minuten per cube when doing multiple blind.



Ha, ha, ha...  

I've catched nice sub-20 solve on cam.


----------



## MarcelP (May 29, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> With a couple of skewbs added just make it harder?


Yeah, I have to built in handicaps to keep it a challenger. I gett bored easily


----------



## mafergut (May 29, 2016)

moralsh said:


> Hi guys!
> 
> Meh first day of comp with bad results overall but with one nice result which makes for all of them:


Impressive Raúl, impressive!!!! Congratulations


----------



## JanW (May 29, 2016)

ZZ progress - PBs 1/5/12: 25.43/28.13/32.12

The single was 1lll with a 2GLL case I recognized (back sune). I had one more completely separate Sub-30 Ao5 later in the session. However, the Ao50 PB (>35s) from 2 days ago still stands. Goes to show how uneven I am still at this point. Need to get rid of those >50s mess up solves somehow.

Also learned both J-perms. I'm quite comfortable with them while practicing the algs separately, but I only had one J-perm coming up in these last 50 solves, so haven't really got to test them in practice yet. Or maybe there was more cases that I didn't notice, if I performed an A-perm immediately without spotting the full bar on the back face...

With 10 badly oriented edges, I'm now mostly placing the 2 correctly oriented edges on the middle layer (not F or B layer), rotate F and B, then flip the 2 pieces left from the middle layer. I found this to be a very easy way to keep track of the edges that remain to be oriented, which frees up brain capacity to plan movement of the two line edges. This is probably not always move optimal. Is this a good strategy, or should I try to get away from such non-optimal habits asap?


----------



## mafergut (May 29, 2016)

Nice Roux single, @h2f, Grzegorz, and very nice progress at ZZ, @JanW. Both of you are inspiring me to get back to those methods that I just barely learned, practiced for a week or two and forgot about. My ideal for ZZ would be to learn full COLL and have 100% EPLL every time at OH 

By the way, I started today my 5x5 practice regime (I hope I won't get worse at 4x4 during the next 2-3 weeks). Already starting to pay, after 8 solves I finally got my first sub-4min with a 3:46.xx. Now I'll try to repeat it 

Ouch! I repeated the sub-4 but none as good as the first one... so close to sub-4 Ao5:
avg of 5: 4:00.53 = (3:46.55), 3:57.83, 4:04.52, (4:28.67), 3:59.23


----------



## h2f (May 29, 2016)

@mafergut, thank you. I think if you know CFOP ZZ is a good choice.

@JanW, nice progress.


----------



## newtonbase (May 29, 2016)

moralsh said:


> Hi guys!
> 
> Meh first day of comp with bad results overall but with one nice result which makes for all of them:
> 
> ...


Well done.


----------



## muchacho (May 29, 2016)

PBs, but not by much. Also, 19000 timed solves already 

Ao12: 20.665 (was 20.871 from 20-may)
Mo100: 22.970 (was 23.256 from 11-may)



Spoiler: Ao12 times



18966 29-may-2016 19:02:44 00:22.823 U' R2 U' F2 R2 D2 F2 R2 D2 U' R' L B' U' B2 R F U L2 U2 L' U'
18965 29-may-2016 19:01:52 00:24.915 D2 L2 F2 D B2 D B2 D2 U' R2 L2 F' L D' F U' R2 F2 D' U2 R'
18964 29-may-2016 19:01:00 00:22.503 D L2 U2 R2 L2 U' B2 R2 B2 R2 U2 R' D' F' L B2 D2 L B' D R' U'
18963 29-may-2016 19:00:18 00:20.071 B2 U' B2 U' F2 D R2 L2 F2 U2 F2 R D' B' R B D F' R' F' U2
18962 29-may-2016 18:59:34 00:21.735 R2 D' B2 D L2 F2 L2 B2 D2 F2 U L D2 F R2 B2 R' D' U' L B L'
18961 29-may-2016 18:58:57 00:18.334 D' R2 U' R2 D' B2 L2 D B2 R2 D F' R' F' R' U B L2 D2 U B
18960 29-may-2016 18:58:10 00:20.919 L2 B2 D' F2 D2 U' F2 D2 B2 R2 B2 R L B' U R2 L2 D' B' U2 L U
18959 29-may-2016 18:57:13 00:20.359 B2 R2 U' F2 U2 R2 U' L2 D' L2 B2 R' U2 F L2 D2 R U2 L2 F2
18958 29-may-2016 18:56:21 00:22.158 B2 U' B2 D' B2 D L2 B2 L2 U B D' L' D' U2 R' B' F2 D2 F U2
18957 29-may-2016 18:55:36 00:19.486 R2 B2 F2 D B2 D2 B2 U' B2 F2 D' B U' F2 L2 U' F2 L D F R' U'
18956 29-may-2016 18:54:54 00:15.381 R2 F2 U L2 U' F2 D' R2 D' F2 U2 L F' U2 L U2 F2 U R' U2 L' U'
18955 29-may-2016 18:54:08 00:18.271 D2 R2 F2 L2 B2 D U' B2 L2 D R B' U2 R2 B L2 B R D' B' D





Spoiler: Mo100 times



19001 29-may-2016 19:35:46 00:23.583 R2 D U2 F2 R2 D' R2 D R2 D2 F2 L' B' F2 D2 R2 B' L2 B U' F'
19000 29-may-2016 19:34:52 00:18.863 D R2 L2 U B2 D' R2 D2 U' R2 B2 R' F2 L U2 B2 U B2 F' D U2
18999 29-may-2016 19:34:08 00:23.910 B2 U L2 F2 D2 L2 D R2 D L2 U' B L F' D2 L U' R U B' U L2
18998 29-may-2016 19:33:20 00:21.479 U R2 L2 F2 U B2 U' B2 D' B2 D2 L F D U' B2 F L2 U' B2 U
18997 29-may-2016 19:32:26 00:23.983 L2 U F2 L2 U' B2 U' F2 U2 R2 B' R2 B R D L' B2 L2 B' F
18996 29-may-2016 19:31:42 00:20.815 U R2 L2 B2 R2 D' F2 R2 U' F2 D B' R' F R' L' D B2 D F' L' D'
18995 29-may-2016 19:30:55 00:22.214 D L2 D R2 D B2 U2 R2 B2 L2 F' U B R D' L2 F2 L' D2 B2 D
18994 29-may-2016 19:30:08 00:18.687 D' B2 R2 B2 F2 U2 L2 U' R2 L2 U R D2 B R2 U L B2 U' R D B'
18993 29-may-2016 19:29:14 00:21.966 B2 U' B2 U' L2 U L2 U2 R2 U' F2 R U2 B F' R' U' F U2 R U'
18992 29-may-2016 19:28:27 00:23.446 L2 B2 F2 D U2 L2 U2 L2 F2 D' F R' L2 B' F2 D L F R2 F2 U2
18991 29-may-2016 19:27:39 00:24.406 B2 R2 L2 U2 F2 D' F2 D' R2 F2 D B' U B' D F2 D F R L D
18990 29-may-2016 19:26:53 00:23.749 B2 D L2 D R2 L2 D L2 D' L2 D2 B F' D2 B2 R U2 F U F2 U'
18989 29-may-2016 19:26:05 00:25.750 L2 D' F2 U L2 U' R2 D' R2 D R2 B U L D B F R2 U' F2 L U
18988 29-may-2016 19:25:10 00:24.158 U' B2 U F2 U' R2 D' F2 L2 D2 U' B F' U B2 L' U B2 L F2 L U
18987 29-may-2016 19:24:13 00:18.775 R2 L2 D F2 U L2 F2 D2 L2 D2 R B U2 R B' F R2 D U' R' U2
18986 29-may-2016 19:23:27 00:22.463 F2 U' R2 U B2 U L2 D2 R2 D2 F' R B2 D B U' L F2 U B' R
18985 29-may-2016 19:22:42 00:18.894 D' F2 L2 U' B2 L2 B2 D B2 U' F' R2 F L' D2 U' F2 R F2 U
18984 29-may-2016 19:21:48 00:28.575 B2 L2 D2 L2 U B2 U B2 F2 D' F R B U F U2 R2 B2 R'
18983 29-may-2016 19:20:48 00:19.983 U L2 U' F2 L2 F2 R2 U B2 D2 B2 R' L U' B F D' L2 D' F2 R2 D'
18982 29-may-2016 19:20:00 00:17.879 D B2 D2 R2 L2 D' B2 D2 R2 D2 U2 R' F2 R' D2 R' U' B' D U' F' U
18981 29-may-2016 19:19:12 00:20.479 F2 L2 B2 R2 D B2 R2 D U2 F2 U2 F' B2 L2 D' L' B' D2 B2 U' L U2
18980 29-may-2016 19:18:07 00:23.166 L2 B2 F2 D R2 U' R2 L2 U' F2 U2 R B2 D' B U B' L U B' R2 U'
18979 29-may-2016 19:17:29 00:16.192 U B2 F2 R2 D U2 F2 R2 U R2 D F' B2 L' D B L D' U2 B' L D'
18978 29-may-2016 19:16:46 00:22.574 B2 F2 D' B2 U2 F2 U2 L2 U R2 U B' D R B R D' L B2 R' D2
18977 29-may-2016 19:15:56 00:18.303 D' B2 D L2 U B2 U2 R2 B2 U' R U' B D L F2 R' D
18976 29-may-2016 19:14:14 00:27.614 B2 U F2 R2 L2 D2 F2 L2 U L2 D' F' R' U R' D L U' F' R' L D2
18975 29-may-2016 19:13:22 00:27.671 R2 D2 L2 D F2 U2 L2 U B2 D B R B' U2 B2 F' U L F
18974 29-may-2016 19:12:33 00:25.471 B2 D F2 D' F2 L2 D2 L2 U2 L U' F U B' R2 B' U L B2 U'
18973 29-may-2016 19:11:45 00:22.070 B2 U' B2 L2 U' F2 D B2 L2 D' U2 B R F' L U B2 R' B U F D'
18972 29-may-2016 19:10:59 00:20.414 B2 D' B2 F2 D2 L2 B2 U B2 D' L' D' U' L' B U F R' L2 D' U'
18971 29-may-2016 19:10:12 00:25.470 D L2 U B2 F2 D F2 L2 B2 L2 D B' F U B' D2 L D R' F2 U2 L'
18970 29-may-2016 19:09:25 00:23.119 U F2 D L2 D F2 R2 L2 D' F2 U' F D B' D R' F2 L' F L F' D'
18969 29-may-2016 19:08:40 00:22.360 L2 D' R2 B2 R2 B2 D L2 U L2 D2 L' B R D' F R U' F2 L D U2
18968 29-may-2016 19:07:56 00:20.328 B2 F2 L2 F2 U B2 D F2 U B2 D F R' L2 U L D2 R F L2 D' L2
18967 29-may-2016 19:07:11 00:19.764 D' B2 D B2 F2 U B2 F2 U F2 L' B' U2 F U2 L' U2 L B2 F' U'
18966 29-may-2016 19:02:44 00:22.823 U' R2 U' F2 R2 D2 F2 R2 D2 U' R' L B' U' B2 R F U L2 U2 L' U'
18965 29-may-2016 19:01:52 00:24.915 D2 L2 F2 D B2 D B2 D2 U' R2 L2 F' L D' F U' R2 F2 D' U2 R'
18964 29-may-2016 19:01:00 00:22.503 D L2 U2 R2 L2 U' B2 R2 B2 R2 U2 R' D' F' L B2 D2 L B' D R' U'
18963 29-may-2016 19:00:18 00:20.071 B2 U' B2 U' F2 D R2 L2 F2 U2 F2 R D' B' R B D F' R' F' U2
18962 29-may-2016 18:59:34 00:21.735 R2 D' B2 D L2 F2 L2 B2 D2 F2 U L D2 F R2 B2 R' D' U' L B L'
18961 29-may-2016 18:58:57 00:18.334 D' R2 U' R2 D' B2 L2 D B2 R2 D F' R' F' R' U B L2 D2 U B
18960 29-may-2016 18:58:10 00:20.919 L2 B2 D' F2 D2 U' F2 D2 B2 R2 B2 R L B' U R2 L2 D' B' U2 L U
18959 29-may-2016 18:57:13 00:20.359 B2 R2 U' F2 U2 R2 U' L2 D' L2 B2 R' U2 F L2 D2 R U2 L2 F2
18958 29-may-2016 18:56:21 00:22.158 B2 U' B2 D' B2 D L2 B2 L2 U B D' L' D' U2 R' B' F2 D2 F U2
18957 29-may-2016 18:55:36 00:19.486 R2 B2 F2 D B2 D2 B2 U' B2 F2 D' B U' F2 L2 U' F2 L D F R' U'
18956 29-may-2016 18:54:54 00:15.381 R2 F2 U L2 U' F2 D' R2 D' F2 U2 L F' U2 L U2 F2 U R' U2 L' U'
18955 29-may-2016 18:54:08 00:18.271 D2 R2 F2 L2 B2 D U' B2 L2 D R B' U2 R2 B L2 B R D' B' D
18954 29-may-2016 18:53:17 00:23.278 D' B2 U F2 L2 D2 B2 U' F2 U R2 F' L2 U' B' D2 L2 U' R D R2 U'
18953 29-may-2016 18:52:26 00:26.942 D' F2 L2 D2 B2 U' L2 U' F2 L2 U2 F R B' D' B' L2 B' L' B
18952 29-may-2016 18:51:34 00:26.719 D' L2 U B2 U2 F2 R2 L2 U2 L2 U' F R' B2 F' R2 D' F' R B2 F2 U'
18951 29-may-2016 18:50:45 00:23.774 D2 L2 F2 D2 U' B2 F2 R2 B2 D' U' R D U' L B' D2 U R2 F' R' D'
18950 29-may-2016 18:49:56 00:24.007 U R2 B2 U' F2 D2 L2 F2 R2 U' R2 F' R2 D F2 D' L2 D F' L B'
18949 29-may-2016 18:49:05 00:24.078 D' U F2 R2 F2 L2 U' F2 D' F2 D2 F' R2 L' F D2 R' L D R' B L'
18948 29-may-2016 18:48:09 00:29.934 D L2 U' B2 U' L2 D2 R2 B2 L2 U' L U' F' R' F2 U B' U' L D'
18947 29-may-2016 18:47:17 00:22.790 U L2 B2 F2 U2 F2 U' B2 U' F2 D' L' F' U' F U2 R' B2 D' B2 L2
18946 29-may-2016 18:46:35 00:22.662 D2 R2 D2 R2 F2 D2 B2 L2 U F2 U' L B R2 D' U L' B' D R2 L' U2
18945 29-may-2016 18:45:48 00:23.527 L2 B2 F2 U L2 F2 D R2 B2 D R F' L2 D' B U' F L' U R2 U'
18944 29-may-2016 18:44:43 00:42.039 R2 D2 B2 U' F2 U F2 R2 D U' R' D2 L' U B D B2 U' B2 R U2
18943 29-may-2016 18:43:38 00:35.173 D2 B2 D2 R2 B2 U' L2 U L2 U' B2 L U L' B2 L B' R U' L' U
18942 29-may-2016 18:42:57 00:20.823 B2 F2 D' R2 L2 U' L2 D' R2 B2 D F L' U F R' B R2 L B2 R2 D'
18941 29-may-2016 18:42:12 00:22.126 R2 L2 F2 D' R2 U R2 U2 F2 U' R F L D R2 U2 B2 D' R2 B'
18940 29-may-2016 18:41:28 00:20.095 F2 D' L2 B2 D B2 R2 D R2 F2 U2 F' L2 F' U2 L U' R' U2 R2 U2
18939 29-may-2016 18:40:40 00:23.557 F2 D L2 D F2 L2 D' U2 F2 D R B D R D L U F' R'
18938 29-may-2016 18:40:01 00:18.111 B2 U R2 B2 U R2 U2 R2 U' L2 U' L U R F2 D' R' U' B R L'
18937 29-may-2016 18:39:16 00:24.926 D' R2 D' R2 F2 D R2 U L2 D' F R' L' U' F' R B U2 F R D2
18936 29-may-2016 18:38:26 00:21.622 R2 D2 L2 F2 U R2 F2 R2 U' L2 B' L F2 D' U B D2 B R L' U'
18935 29-may-2016 18:37:37 00:24.039 R2 D' F2 U' R2 D R2 L2 U R2 F2 R F' U' F L' D L U F' D'
18934 29-may-2016 18:36:56 00:18.943 R2 B2 D2 R2 U2 R2 U' R2 L2 D' U' B' R' F' L2 B' R U L B D' F'
18933 29-may-2016 18:36:15 00:20.134 B2 D F2 L2 D' F2 D L2 B2 L2 B2 R' B' F' L2 F' R' U L' F U'
18932 29-may-2016 18:35:28 00:21.703 D' B2 D' F2 U2 R2 L2 U' B2 L2 U F' D' F R' L' U L' B' L' F U'
18931 29-may-2016 18:34:39 00:28.731 L2 B2 F2 D B2 U2 R2 F2 R2 D L2 B' R' F2 R F' U L D R' B
18930 29-may-2016 18:33:47 00:21.869 D' R2 D U L2 F2 L2 F2 U B2 R' U R' U2 L F' U2 B2 L2
18929 29-may-2016 18:33:04 00:20.479 F2 U2 R2 D' B2 F2 U' R2 F2 R2 D' L' B2 F' R' L D' L F' U F L2
18928 29-may-2016 18:31:02 00:21.351 L2 D' R2 B2 D R2 B2 F2 D' R2 U F L F D F L B' D' B2 R U2
18927 29-may-2016 18:30:12 00:23.687 F2 L2 F2 L2 D U2 B2 D R2 D' U B R U2 L D' R' L F L B
18926 29-may-2016 18:29:23 00:20.599 D2 U R2 B2 D' U' R2 B2 R2 U' B2 R L' F' U L' D' F' U' L D' U'
18925 29-may-2016 18:28:38 00:22.879 R2 L2 U L2 F2 U2 L2 D B2 U' F2 L' F2 L' U L' U R2 F L' U'
18924 29-may-2016 18:27:50 00:25.502 R2 F2 R2 U' B2 F2 L2 D' L2 U' F2 L D2 L B' R2 D R' U' L U2
18923 29-may-2016 18:27:01 00:27.615 B2 R2 D' B2 L2 D' U' R2 F2 D2 L2 B' R L2 B' L D' R D F' D2
18922 29-may-2016 18:26:08 00:29.942 F2 R2 L2 D B2 R2 D2 B2 U2 F2 D' B R' D U R2 L2 B' D2 B2 F' D'
18921 29-may-2016 18:25:24 00:19.710 R2 L2 D2 B2 D B2 U L2 U' F2 U R U L' D2 B F' D2 U R2 F' U2
18920 29-may-2016 18:24:32 00:24.502 U B2 U F2 D' B2 L2 D B2 F2 R2 F D R2 F2 U2 R U' F D' R' D'
18919 29-may-2016 17:57:51 00:25.703 U R2 U' F2 D2 U' F2 R2 U' R' D' U L B' D2 U L B' L' D'
18918 29-may-2016 17:57:01 00:29.558 L2 U B2 U2 F2 D' F2 R2 U2 L2 D' F' B2 L B D' B2 U2 L' D' U2
18917 29-may-2016 17:56:15 00:19.630 L2 F2 L2 D' R2 D' F2 U2 L2 B2 R2 B F D R2 L' F2 D2 F U' L2 U
18916 29-may-2016 17:55:22 00:28.246 L2 F2 D' F2 D' U2 B2 R2 U' R2 D' L' U F D' L' D R2 B' U2 L D2
18915 29-may-2016 17:54:31 00:25.352 D2 R2 B2 U' R2 B2 U' R2 D2 U' L2 F U R' U R2 L' U2 F' L
18914 29-may-2016 17:53:47 00:22.877 U' B2 D2 F2 U R2 D' F2 D B2 F2 L D2 R B' R2 F2 R U L' U
18913 29-may-2016 17:52:50 00:25.335 U2 R2 D' R2 B2 U R2 U B2 U' L D2 U' F R' U' L' U' L2 B2
18912 29-may-2016 17:52:09 00:22.367 L2 B2 D R2 D2 F2 D2 F2 R2 F2 U' B' U2 R B2 R2 B' R2 U' R' D2 U'
18911 29-may-2016 17:51:10 00:30.990 D' L2 D' L2 U' R2 D B2 R2 F2 U2 R' D' F2 R' U2 F' D2 F2 D' F'
18910 29-may-2016 17:50:26 00:20.559 L2 D R2 U L2 B2 U B2 R2 F2 U R B2 D' B2 U2 B' F' R U2 L' U'
18909 29-may-2016 17:49:36 00:25.550 U' L2 U2 B2 R2 B2 L2 D2 L' F' L2 U B' L' U2 B R' D2 U
18908 29-may-2016 17:48:49 00:21.638 B2 U L2 F2 D F2 R2 F2 L2 U L D' U' R D B U' B' D' U2
18907 29-may-2016 17:48:04 00:20.228 F2 U2 R2 D R2 B2 F2 U' F2 D U' L B' D F' R' L B2 D R' U
18906 29-may-2016 17:47:20 00:20.711 R2 U' L2 B2 U F2 D L2 B2 F2 U2 L' D2 L U F2 D2 F2 R B L2 U2
18905 29-may-2016 17:46:34 00:18.374 F2 L2 B2 L2 U' F2 U R2 B2 R2 B' L2 F2 U' B2 D R L D'
18904 29-may-2016 17:45:50 00:21.293 F2 D' R2 F2 L2 B2 D2 U' R2 D U2 B L2 U' R' D2 R' D' L B R' U'
18903 29-may-2016 17:45:07 00:23.150 L2 F2 U2 B2 L2 D' B2 U' L2 D' U' B' D' F U' F' U' R' B' F L2
18902 29-may-2016 17:44:21 00:22.055 F2 L2 U' R2 F2 U' F2 U' L2 D' U F' R2 L' B2 R' U' R' B2 D' L


----------



## mafergut (May 29, 2016)

muchacho said:


> PBs, but not by much. Also, 19000 timed solves already
> 
> Ao12: 20.665 (was 20.871 from 20-may)
> Mo100: 22.970 (was 23.256 from 11-may)



Nice! It's amazing how the thousands of solves start to accumulate 
Also, PB Ao5 3x3 OH 38.43. Mi previous one was 38.50 from my 1st time in the weekly competition, months ago. This was again the Ao5 for this weeks's WC


----------



## Jason Green (May 29, 2016)

There I got a better ao100. I took a little break around midway. I was tired towards the end and thought I should finish later, but we will be out of time tonight so I pushed through. It's good discipline I guess to keep those 35 and 40 second solves, and then number 99 was a DNF. Like I saw it after I stopped the timer and felt really ticked. I thought I better not DNF this average!!


----------



## kbrune (May 30, 2016)

Hey guys! Boston comp in the books! I didn't have access to wifi at all the whole weekend so I couldn't check in.

Nice job on 5BLD!! @moralsh

Quick recap on my day in Boston

Mega: Beat single with 4:06.xx

Pyraminx: came in 15th with a 10.76 ave. 0.01 off my official average

3x3: 20.08. Beat my official ao5 but missed sub 20 by 0.09

4x4: cutoff of 1;30 again. First solve was 1:30.62 again! lol Second was 1:20.xx so I broke the curse and for
an ao5 which I managed to beat my official by 1 second with a 1:32.xx

5x5: Good solves but cutoff unreachable for me. 2 low 3 min solves.

2x2: Beat both my official single and ao5 with a 5.86 and a 6.99 respectively

3BLD: DNF (4:06.xx), 5:00.77, 3:48.54. third solve beats official time! but I missed a mean by 2 twisted edges 

OH: Nothing special as usual

FMC: I was very excited to get a second crack at FMC. I was expecting between 45 and 50 and I ended up with a 39!
very good for me!

Cheers!


----------



## h2f (May 30, 2016)

Jason Green said:


> There I got a better ao100. I took a little break around midway. I was tired towards the end and thought I should finish later, but we will be out of time tonight so I pushed through. It's good discipline I guess to keep those 35 and 40 second solves, and then number 99 was a DNF. Like I saw it after I stopped the timer and felt really ticked. I thought I better not DNF this average!!



It looks like you are before a jump to sub-20. All stackmated I guess? If I'm correct stackmat means 0.3 - 0.5 slower time than keyboard.


----------



## Jason Green (May 30, 2016)

h2f said:


> It looks like you are before a jump to sub-20. All stackmated I guess? If I'm correct stackmat means 0.3 - 0.5 slower time than keyboard.


No these were actually on my phone timer. I've never noticed much variance going between stackmat, phone, or keyboard. I guess there should be some. I should try and do an ao100 with the mat tomorrow if I can just to compare. It may be because when I'm using the mat I'm usually at a better set up with better posture, etc. so it makes up for it.


----------



## h2f (May 30, 2016)

@kbrune, great results and so many pb's. Congrats.


----------



## MarcelP (May 30, 2016)

kbrune said:


> Hey guys! Boston comp in the books! I didn't have access to wifi at all the whole weekend so I couldn't check in.
> 
> Nice job on 5BLD!! @moralsh
> 
> ...


Wow, that must have been one big smile through out the weekend. Good job.


----------



## Logiqx (May 30, 2016)

JanW said:


> With 10 badly oriented edges, I'm now mostly placing the 2 correctly oriented edges on the middle layer (not F or B layer), rotate F and B, then flip the 2 pieces left from the middle layer. I found this to be a very easy way to keep track of the edges that remain to be oriented, which frees up brain capacity to plan movement of the two line edges. This is probably not always move optimal. Is this a good strategy, or should I try to get away from such non-optimal habits asap?



Have you tried y-axis neutrality? It's a good way to make some edges good before starting the solve.


----------



## h2f (May 30, 2016)

New pb while talking with son. 






Reconstruction
Scramble: D R2 D2 R2 D F2 D R2 U B2 F D' R' D2 L' U' B' D2 L' F

x' //
U F' R' U' R r B' // FB
r' U R2 U' r2 // SB 
U' U2 R U2 R' U' R U' R' // CMLL antisune
M' M U' M' U' M U' M' // EO
U' M' U2 M' U M2 // LSE forced skip UR/UL

alg.cubing.net

35 stm. Possible 32. 35/14.77=2.35 tps


----------



## newtonbase (May 30, 2016)

h2f said:


> New pb while talking with son.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Well done. Great reaction.


----------



## mafergut (May 30, 2016)

@kbrune, Ken, fantastic performance at that comp. Great results. You're so fast at pyra!!!!

@Jason, yeah, for my (short) experience with stackmat or keyboard but with proper pick-up and drop of the cube, it's like 0.3-0.5 slower. Maybe practise will make it less than that but for me that's more or less it. I should use the yuxin timer I bought but I'm just lazy to take it out and set it up.

@h2f, Grzegorz, very nice Roux single!!! The doubts and pauses make me think there was potential to sub-12 at least.

By the way, my strategy of waiting and not buying the Aoshi has payed off. Yuxin will sell a 6x6 in a few weeks and it looks great and they will have it in stickerless, same shades as the 5x5. Also they will sell a new 4x4 that looks like it can fight for the throne of the best mini 4x4 with the CB G4.


----------



## muchacho (May 30, 2016)

Very nice single! SB was cool.

@kbrune congrats!


----------



## h2f (May 30, 2016)

@mafergut, if I were more experienced and not asleep (woke up at 5) sub10 possible with 3 tps (it's only 32 stm).

Talking about buying big cubes - every time when I bought new big cube a better one comes out. It was when I bought SS 6x6 (aoshi appeared), same with Aochuang (new Yuxin, Boachuang) and same this time - few weeks ago I bought Aoshi. The good thing is that I broke my Aoshi and it seems fine.


----------



## mafergut (May 30, 2016)

h2f said:


> @mafergut, if I were more experienced and not asleep (woke up at 5) sub10 possible with 3 tps (it's only 32 stm).
> 
> Talking about buying big cubes - every time when I bought new big cube a better one comes out. It was when I bought SS 6x6 (aoshi appeared), same with Aochuang (new Yuxin, Boachuang) and same this time - few weeks ago I bought Aoshi. The good thing is that I broke my Aoshi and it seems fine.



It will happen to me as well. I'll buy the Yuxin 6x6 and then Qiyi will make a better one 

And regarding the Roux solve, yeah, sub-10 could be possible, which takes me to the point that Roux seems to have significantly lower move count than CFOP so... as we oldies can have decent lookahead but meh pure TPS... could it be that for us Roux has potential to be faster than CFOP? Am I wasting my time and should I switch to Roux like... right now? At least for 3x3, not sure that big cubes and Roux mix that well.


----------



## Gordon (May 30, 2016)

h2f said:


> If I'm correct stackmat means 0.3 - 0.5 slower time than keyboard.



I have the feeling, that I am faster with stackmat. I think it is because it is better placed than the spacebar in relation to my solving position. Also, I only use the Notebook keyboard and sometimes I miss the spacebar and hit the right mouse button which is right below. Then the context menu opens which I have to click away before I can stop the time... That's why I mostly hit the spacebar slower than the stack timer.


----------



## h2f (May 30, 2016)

mafergut said:


> It will happen to me as well. I'll buy the Yuxin 6x6 and then Qiyi will make a better one
> 
> And regarding the Roux solve, yeah, sub-10 could be possible, which takes me to the point that Roux seems to have significantly lower move count than CFOP so... as we oldies can have decent lookahead but meh pure TPS... could it be that for us Roux has potential to be faster than CFOP? Am I wasting my time and should I switch to Roux like... right now? At least for 3x3, not sure that big cubes and Roux mix that well.



It was proven that Roux has a lower move count than CFOP but is one faster with Roux than with CFOP is an open question. I cant answer. I just like Roux and I have a lot of joy solving with it.


----------



## muchacho (May 30, 2016)

So I tried to roll yesterday's mo100 PB to get rid of a 35 and 42 second solves that were there... but first solves of the day so not so good and it included some bad solves also (38, 37, 33).

When I reached that 42 solve I saw that the next 10 solves mean was 24.771 so I thought I could surely improve that... but what happened was 2 normal solves followed by a DNF (M').

So 22.965 mo100 instead of 22.970... 0.005 improvement Woohoo!


----------



## mafergut (May 30, 2016)

muchacho said:


> So I tried to roll yesterday's mo100 PB to get rid of a 35 and 42 second solves that were there... but first solves of the day so not so good and it included some bad solves also (38, 37, 33).
> 
> When I reached that 42 solve I saw that the next 10 solves mean was 24.771 so I thought I could surely improve that... but what happened was 2 normal solves followed by a DNF (M').
> 
> So 22.965 mo100 instead of 22.970... 0.005 improvement Woohoo!


When trying to roll an average I usually do some warmup solves (untimed or timed but in another session) so that cold hands do not get in the middle when trying to improve the average.


----------



## h2f (May 30, 2016)

mafergut said:


> When trying to roll an average I usually do some warmup solves (untimed or timed but in another session) so that cold hands do not get in the middle when trying to improve the average.



I do the same. I had some free time in the morning and finished my session of 100 solves:


Spoiler



solves/total: 100/100

single
best: 14.77
worst: 38.78

mean of 3
current: 23.79 (σ = 5.48)
best: 20.92 (σ = 5.37)

avg of 5
current: 23.90 (σ = 0.71)
best: 21.67 (σ = 0.56)

avg of 12
current: 25.03 (σ = 3.55)
best: 23.36 (σ = 1.66)

avg of 50
current: 24.93 (σ = 2.69)
best: 24.40 (σ = 2.25)

avg of 100
current: 25.46 (σ = 2.99)
best: 25.46 (σ = 2.99)

Average: 25.46 (σ = 2.99)
Mean: 25.66


All ao's are pbs: ao5: 21.67, ao12: 23.36, ao50 24.40, ao100 25.46, mo100: 25.66
I discovered i got pb ao5 on cam:


----------



## MarcelP (May 30, 2016)

h2f said:


> I discovered i got pb ao5 on cam:



I am at work, but can't wait to get home and watch the single and this Ao5. Your video's makes me want to drop CFOP and start all over again with Roux..


----------



## muchacho (May 30, 2016)

Nice, and probably much more CN than me (at least 50-60% of my solves start with blue-white), right?


----------



## h2f (May 30, 2016)

Thank you. 


muchacho said:


> Nice, and probably much more CN than me (at least 50-60% of my solves start with blue-white), right?


I force myself to be CN but when I see nothing I start with green/blue and white on bottom. In fact CN is harder only during SB becasue you plan your FB during preinspection (I force myself to do it as PDF wrote me to plan as far as you can). 



MarcelP said:


> I am at work, but can't wait to get home and watch the single and this Ao5. Your video's makes me want to drop CFOP and start all over again with Roux..



 Heh. Just do what makes you more joy. I think I wont back to CFOP on 3x3 when I see I'm progressing.


----------



## mafergut (May 30, 2016)

h2f said:


> Heh. Just do what makes you more joy. I think I wont back to CFOP on 3x3 when I see I'm progressing.



My only concern is whether the lack of CFOP practise in 3x3 can make me slower at big cubes or even make me forget some algs (mainly OLLs).


----------



## muchacho (May 30, 2016)

Try, maybe it's more difficult to get slower than you think, or you can regain it easily later, or maybe you'll just drop CFOP, or you drop Roux but you have learned something useful (COLL recognition and some algs?).

3x3OH
Ao5: 58.318 (was 1:04.567 from 4-may)
Ao12: 1:03.544 (was 1:08.88 from 16-may)


----------



## mafergut (May 30, 2016)

muchacho said:


> Try, maybe it's more difficult to get slower than you think, or you can regain it easily later, or maybe you'll just drop CFOP, or you drop Roux but you have learned something useful (COLL recognition and some algs?).
> 
> 3x3OH
> Ao5: 58.318 (was 1:04.567 from 4-may)
> Ao12: 1:03.544 (was 1:08.88 from 16-may)



Yeah, I definitely plan on trying again but I don't really think it's possible to completely drop CFOP, at least for even layered big cubes. Now that I think of it, do you use Roux on big cubes?
Congrats on those OH PBs.


----------



## muchacho (May 30, 2016)

I only know Roux... I've only done 2-3 solves on a 5x5, but Roux was just fine, even if I were not using Roux I'm not sure if I'll try to speedsolve cubes bigger than that anyway, but the 3x3 stage on those may not be that important.

Thanks. It's strange, I'm not practicing OH (112 solves in last 30 days, including those for WC and reddit weekly comp and some warm-up), and even so I'm improving, I think I'm going to give OH a chance and practice "a lot" for a few days.


----------



## mafergut (May 30, 2016)

muchacho said:


> I only know Roux... I've only done 2-3 solves on a 5x5, but Roux was just fine, even if I were not using Roux I'm not sure if I'll try to speedsolve cubes bigger than that anyway, but the 3x3 stage on those may not be that important.
> 
> Thanks. It's strange, I'm not practicing OH (112 solves in last 30 days, including those for WC and reddit weekly comp and some warm-up), and even so I'm improving, I think I'm going to give OH a chance and practice "a lot" for a few days.


OH is fun and, even though I don't practise lately (just the 5 WC scrambles every week and maybe another 5-10 as warm-up) I am not getting worse, I even beat my PB Ao5 this week even if just by 0.07. I think you could improve significantly by focusing on it for some weeks and then just maintain more or less your level. It worked for me with 4x4 this month and I hope it will work as well with 5x5 
So, how do you approach Roux for 4x4? Is it difficult to detect the parity cases? I assume that you would realize "OLL" parity during EO and "PLL" parity during or after L6E?


----------



## muchacho (May 30, 2016)

After CMLL I have to usually look to the bottom to see if there is OLL parity, and then I just wait for the other after LSE. Probably there are better ways to handle it (like detect it sooner or solving both at the same time), but like so it's very easy to detect, and just 2 algs (but I'm learning for example one to flip 3 dedges instead of one to get easier EO).

edit: And I'm learning Meyer, it's like Yau for Roux, https://www.speedsolving.com/wiki/index.php/Meyer_method


----------



## h2f (May 30, 2016)

There's a dedicated method on 4x4 based on Roux. There's a tutorial on yt by PDF and here somewhere in threads.

Edit: I've found it.


----------



## mafergut (May 30, 2016)

h2f said:


> There's a dedicated method on 4x4 based on Roux. There's a tutorial on yt by PDF and here somewhere in threads.
> 
> Edit: I've found it.


I'll check it out 
By the way, the new Yuxin 4x4 and 6x6 can be purchased already from Lightake 
What should I do? Buy the 6x6? Wait until there are more reviews out there? Buy the 4x4 as well ? I need help


----------



## h2f (May 30, 2016)

I wont help. I'm gonna to purchase Fisher Cube and Ghost Cube.


----------



## mafergut (May 30, 2016)

h2f said:


> I wont help. I'm gonna to purchase Fisher Cube and Ghost Cube.


After having bought a fisher type cube (the Moyu crazy yileng), a mirrorblocks, a mastermorphix and an axis which I have solved like once each of them (well, the mirrorblocks maybe 3 times) I have to say that I get bored fast of all these 3x3 shapemods. I also can say that I will eventually buy a Ghost... which I'll solve once or twice as well, but I don't like the fangcun one (the blue plastic is especially ugly) and Mefferts' is a bit expensive ($36). So, next time somebody wants to make me a present I will say "a Mefferts ghost, please"


----------



## phreaker (May 30, 2016)

Greetings from another "elderly" cuber.

Learning ZZ and mostly solving OH, so all the PLLs I'm learning are OH, which will probably need to be replaced 2H at some point in some cases. Looking at Roux, but the block building is so strange w/o, EO, after ZZ.


----------



## h2f (May 30, 2016)

phreaker said:


> Greetings from another "elderly" cuber.
> 
> Learning ZZ and mostly solving OH, so all the PLLs I'm learning are OH, which will probably need to be replaced 2H at some point in some cases. Looking at Roux, but the block building is so strange w/o, EO, after ZZ.



Hi.


----------



## earth2dan (May 30, 2016)

Holy smokes! I really just can't keep up with this thread. You guys are great 



newtonbase said:


> I meant the_ Most Likes_ list which is pretty much a list of older cubers
> https://www.speedsolving.com/forum/members/?type=likes


I love this!



mafergut said:


> I'll check it out
> By the way, the new Yuxin 4x4 and 6x6 can be purchased already from Lightake
> What should I do? Buy the 6x6? Wait until there are more reviews out there? Buy the 4x4 as well ? I need help


I expect I'll be getting both, but not from Lightake. Their prices are great, but over the past year their shipping has gotten worse and worse (at least to Canada). The last 3 orders I've placed have taken 2+ months to arrive, in fact I'm still waiting on one. Each time I say the same thing "I wish I had just paid the extra few dollars and ordered from somewhere else". So that's what I'll do this time 

Also, great job at the Boston comp @kbrune. It must feel great setting official PB's.


----------



## mafergut (May 30, 2016)

Welcome, @phreaker!!!! You will feel at home here. Curious that you mostly solve OH  It's not common, I'd say.
@earth2dan, probably that new Yuxin 4x4 will be better out of the box than the G4 but the shades will never be so nice


----------



## earth2dan (May 30, 2016)

mafergut said:


> @earth2dan, probably that new Yuxin 4x4 will be better out of the box than the G4 but the shades will never be so nice


I've got to admit, that G4 is breaking in nicely. I'm still catching on middle layers, but not nearly as bad as it was. I did a handful of solves this weekend with both my AoSu and my G4 and overall the G4 was less than 2 seconds slower. I still haven't lubed or adjusted it at all, just breaking it in. We might have something here


----------



## newtonbase (May 30, 2016)

Hi @phreaker. Welcome to the thread.



earth2dan said:


> I've got to admit, that G4 is breaking in nicely. I'm still catching on middle layers, but not nearly as bad as it was. I did a handful of solves this weekend with both my AoSu and my G4 and overall the G4 was less than 2 seconds slower. I still haven't lubed or adjusted it at all, just breaking it in. We might have something here


My G4 is lovely but I misplaced it so started using my unbroken spare and I couldn't believe how catchy it was. Luckily I found my main.
I've given up on Lightake due to the awful delivery times. I use Champion's Cube Store for everything now.


----------



## phreaker (May 30, 2016)

mafergut said:


> Welcome, @phreaker!!!! You will feel at home here. Curious that you mostly solve OH  It's not common, I'd say.
> @earth2dan, probably that new Yuxin 4x4 will be better out of the box than the G4 but the shades will never be so nice



Well, it is a bit of two birds with one stone. Everyone says "slow down your F2L and think it through more" I find it helps me slow down .

In addition it strengthens my left hand, which is something I really need, to go faster.

That and it is just damn cool to solve a cube OH, and on a plane, it takes up less space .


----------



## phreaker (May 30, 2016)

earth2dan said:


> Holy smokes! I really just can't keep up with this thread. You guys are great
> 
> 
> I love this!
> ...



Ah the advantage of being an older cuber .

People keep acting like cubing is an expensive hobby, compared to most adult ones, it isn't bad at all.


----------



## Jason Green (May 30, 2016)

Welcome @phreaker! Interesting points on why to focus on one hand. It makes some sense. As I have said I struggle with slow turning. 

On the stackmat times, I think the other thing for me is I focus more consistently. With my phone sometimes I reach to stop it during the last U turn for example, but there are times I realise I'm not done and it messes up my finish. With the mat I am more committed to finishing accurately before I drop the cube. It's not intentional but it just seems to be the case.


----------



## earth2dan (May 30, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> My G4 is lovely but I misplaced it so started using my unbroken spare and I couldn't believe how catchy it was. Luckily I found my main.
> I've given up on Lightake due to the awful delivery times. I use Champion's Cube Store for everything now.


I'm starting to understand the love/hate for the G4. It seems if you're willing to put in the time to break it in, it gets really nice. But man oh man, it's bad out of the box...
I really like Champion's Cube Store as well. That's where I bought my very first speedcube (a ShengShou Aurora) . I also bought my 13x13 there, they had the best price and he DHL'd it to me in 2 days!



phreaker said:


> Ah the advantage of being an older cuber .
> People keep acting like cubing is an expensive hobby, compared to most adult ones, it isn't bad at all.


No kidding! I've had to drop other hobbies, mainly because time and budget just didn't permit them anymore. As far as adult hobbies go, cubing is definitely on the affordable side. I've spent less in 2+ years of cubing than any other hobby I've ever pursued.



Jason Green said:


> On the stackmat times, I think the other thing for me is I focus more consistently. With my phone sometimes I reach to stop it during the last U turn for example, but there are times I realise I'm not done and it messed up my finish. With the mat I am more committed to finishing accurately before I drop the cube. It's not intentional but it just seems to be the case.


I do this all the time on my phone timer. It's a problem I need to work on. I've never used a stackmat timer :/


----------



## newtonbase (May 30, 2016)

Cubing is cheap until you start competing.


----------



## mafergut (May 30, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> Cubing is cheap until you start competing.


That's why I hadn't realized it yet


----------



## Jason Green (May 30, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> Cubing is cheap until you start competing.


I guess you're counting travel in the not cheap part.  Entry fees are usually low.


----------



## SenorJuan (May 30, 2016)

"it is just damn cool to solve a cube OH"
Welcome to the OH club. Has your enthusiasm resulted in you attempting other puzzles OH? I had a try at 4x4x4 last year, but my Weisu locked up way too much, ruining the fun, I think 2m40 was the best I could come up with at the time. I'll have another try some time...sub 2m has to be achievable.
'Badmephisto' said one of the cool things about OH is you can cube and eat noodles at the same time...I haven't tried that one, could be messy.

I might have got my first sub-20 333 OH solve yesterday, it was pretty borderline, if I'd done it properly on a stackmat, it likely wouldn't be sub.


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## h2f (May 30, 2016)

I must take a serious part at OH Roux.


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## newtonbase (May 30, 2016)

Jason Green said:


> I guess you're counting travel in the not cheap part.  Entry fees are usually low.


Yes, travel and accommodation.


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## muchacho (May 30, 2016)

I'm serious now at OH Roux.

Ao5: 56.849 (was 58.318)
Ao12: 58.994 (was 1:03.544)


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## h2f (May 30, 2016)

muchacho said:


> I'm serious now at OH Roux.
> 
> Ao5: 56.849 (was 58.318)
> Ao12: 58.994 (was 1:03.544)



Nice. 

I did fast OH ao5 *47.74* [(59.04), 50.04, (35.87), 53.72, 39.44]. Two 30.xx were with one-look cmll (H4 and T1). Looks like Roux may be efficient in OH. My ao100 with CFOP OH is 47.xx


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## mafergut (May 30, 2016)

h2f said:


> Nice.
> 
> I did fast OH ao5 *47.74* [(59.04), 50.04, (35.87), 53.72, 39.44]. Two 30.xx were with one-look cmll (H4 and T1). Looks like Roux may be efficient in OH. My ao100 with CFOP OH is 47.xx


Table abuse for L6E is the only thing I don't like of OH Roux.


----------



## muchacho (May 30, 2016)

Oh why? It's a fun part 

What I don't like is not being able to use M/M' during F2B, I guess that's easier for CFOP solvers.


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## phreaker (May 30, 2016)

Jason Green said:


> I guess you're counting travel in the not cheap part.  Entry fees are usually low.



I think there's enough comps in my immediate area, that I won't have to travel much. I'm more curious if I'll run into comps when I travel.


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## phreaker (May 30, 2016)

SenorJuan said:


> "it is just damn cool to solve a cube OH"
> Welcome to the OH club. Has your enthusiasm resulted in you attempting other puzzles OH? I had a try at 4x4x4 last year, but my Weisu locked up way too much, ruining the fun, I think 2m40 was the best I could come up with at the time. I'll have another try some time...sub 2m has to be achievable.
> 'Badmephisto' said one of the cool things about OH is you can cube and eat noodles at the same time...I haven't tried that one, could be messy.
> 
> I might have got my first sub-20 333 OH solve yesterday, it was pretty borderline, if I'd done it properly on a stackmat, it likely wouldn't be sub.



Not yet, though I imagine once I'm used to solving 4x4, I could try that. I have a 4x4 around . But I need more 3x3 practice first.


----------



## phreaker (May 30, 2016)

muchacho said:


> Oh why? It's a fun part
> 
> What I don't like is not being able to use M/M' during F2B, I guess that's easier for CFOP solvers.



I think once you concede to that you'll be abusing the poor table, you can use M/M' during F2B. But given that I'll practice sitting on the couch relaxing, with the wife, I don't see Roux OH being in my future, for now.

Some of me also goes: It is one handed, not one handed + table .


----------



## phreaker (May 30, 2016)

SenorJuan said:


> "it is just damn cool to solve a cube OH"
> Welcome to the OH club. Has your enthusiasm resulted in you attempting other puzzles OH? I had a try at 4x4x4 last year, but my Weisu locked up way too much, ruining the fun, I think 2m40 was the best I could come up with at the time. I'll have another try some time...sub 2m has to be achievable.
> 'Badmephisto' said one of the cool things about OH is you can cube and eat noodles at the same time...I haven't tried that one, could be messy.
> 
> I might have got my first sub-20 333 OH solve yesterday, it was pretty borderline, if I'd done it properly on a stackmat, it likely wouldn't be sub.



I've gone sub 1:30 OH, but I don't have a proper sub 1:00 solve 2H or OH. I expect it'll come along. Full PLL will help me quite a bit I suspect, I'm finally making a "more serious" attempt at it. We'll see how I do. Still have the Gs, Ns, Rs, V and F. I'm working on T and I expect to get that today. I'll look after T, and decide what to take on next, I'm hoping I can get two total today... we'll see.


----------



## earth2dan (May 30, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> Cubing is cheap until you start competing.


Yeah, I can see competitions getting pricey if you have to travel and stay in hotels. Especially if you're like me and live in a 1000km cubing dead zone. I've still never been to a competition.

Thus far, I've not had to factor this into my cubing budget


----------



## muchacho (May 30, 2016)

phreaker said:


> I think once you concede to that you'll be abusing the poor table, you can use M/M' during F2B. But given that I'll practice sitting on the couch relaxing, with the wife, I don't see Roux OH being in my future, for now.
> 
> Some of me also goes: It is one handed, not one handed + table .


ok, it's logical, but since it's in the rules that the table can be used, and it's faster, the table will be used.

I put something between the table and the cube, the poor table is safe ...when not on a table I use my leg or whatever I can, or do it just "properly" OH.

It takes time to put the cube on the table to use it and then continue with the solve, so I don't think it could be used during F2B.


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## phreaker (May 30, 2016)

muchacho said:


> ok, it's logical, but since it's in the rules that the table can be used, and it's faster, the table will be used.
> 
> I put something between the table and the cube, the poor table is safe ...when not on a table I use my leg or whatever I can, or do it just "properly" OH.
> 
> It takes time to put the cube on the table to use it and then continue with the solve, so I don't think it could be used during F2B.



I think I've seen videos of people doing it, from the start. How do you do M/M' without a table/leg?


----------



## muchacho (May 30, 2016)

I'm just doing Mw' L / Mw L' instead... that's not fast, I'll learn better for F2B, until now I didn't paid much attention to OH.


----------



## h2f (May 30, 2016)

I do M/M' with table during FB/SB. I really take a serious account OH Roux.


----------



## muchacho (May 30, 2016)

I'm curious how fast that is, will you film a OH solve "soon"?


----------



## h2f (May 30, 2016)

I'm just a noob. Look at him: 






Or him:


----------



## Shaky Hands (May 30, 2016)

Just caught up on the last 10 pages or so. Don't seem to have had email notifications from this thread for a while, but great to see the amount of success that people have been having, with PB singles and averages, as well as learning new methods. Great stuff everyone!

Personally, I've managed PB's for both single and average recently in everything from 4x4 to 7x7 so have been doing well with those. 3x3 continues to be variable, but fun.



SpeedCubeReview said:


> 4x4: They are coming out with a new AoSu soon. The YuSu R is the latest from YJ and is far better than the GuanSu but If I had to say one to try, get a Cyclone Boys G4. It is slightly smaller, fast, hard to pop, and not too expensive. I like it over the AoSu.



Thanks, I didn't realise there was a new AoSu on the way. I may look into this. Currently using a stickerless G4 which I far prefer to the original AoSu.



Logiqx said:


> I'm awaiting an order from the Cubicle but I'm starting to wonder if they are being delayed in customs or worse still, maybe confiscated. The tracking shows they were in Heathrow on Sunday but nothing since that time. I don't remember it taking so long the last time I order from the US.



Has it arrived yet? My cubicle order was shipped 19th May and is due to arrive tomorrow.



mark49152 said:


> I haven't posted any 3BLD solves before, so here goes. I wanted to beat the 1:27 official where my camera battery died, but the best I could manage was 4 seconds short . Also got a recent PB of 1:16.96, but not on cam.



Well done Mark. I caught this on my YouTube feed a few days ago.



JanW said:


> However, I think it's safe to say that I have the slowest E-perm in this thread. Need to work on that one.



I don't like E-perm either. But without wishing to discourage you, I don't feel it's worth practicing as much as some of the other PLL's as it comes up less often. When I was doing 2-look PLL, I switched from an E-perm to a Y-perm as it flows so much better for me.



mafergut said:


> By the way, my strategy of waiting and not buying the Aoshi has payed off. Yuxin will sell a 6x6 in a few weeks and it looks great and they will have it in stickerless, same shades as the 5x5.



A Yuxin 6x6? That sounds quite promising indeed. Thanks for the tip!


----------



## odouhaha (May 31, 2016)

Hi, I am a 41 year old enthusiast in cubing from the Netherlands. One year ago I solved my first cube, since I have been practicing a lot and got an average of sub 40 and a pb of 24.09 (only time in 20s) but on average I keep between 30-50s which for the last months doesn't seem to change much.. I hope to improve still and my aim is to be a sub 20 cuber on average. I enjoy reading this thread and am happy to find that there are a lot more people my age doing speed solving.


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## Jason Green (May 31, 2016)

odouhaha said:


> Hi, I am a 41 year old enthusiast in cubing from the Netherlands. One year ago I solved my first cube, since I have been practicing a lot and got an average of sub 40 and a pb of 24.09 (only time in 20s) but on average I keep between 30-50s which for the last months doesn't seem to change much.. I hope to improve still and my aim is to be a sub 20 cuber on average. I enjoy reading this thread and am happy to find that there are a lot more people my age doing speed solving.


Glad to have you here!


----------



## newtonbase (May 31, 2016)

odouhaha said:


> Hi, I am a 41 year old enthusiast in cubing from the Netherlands. One year ago I solved my first cube, since I have been practicing a lot and got an average of sub 40 and a pb of 24.09 (only time in 20s) but on average I keep between 30-50s which for the last months doesn't seem to change much.. I hope to improve still and my aim is to be a sub 20 cuber on average. I enjoy reading this thread and am happy to find that there are a lot more people my age doing speed solving.


Hello. Nice to have you here. Do you do any other events?


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## earth2dan (May 31, 2016)

Just did my averages for the 4x4 and 5x5 race threads and set AO5 and AO12 PB's in both! I'm glad I've been taking the time to break in my G4, I'm starting to really like it. I still haven't done anything to set up my stickerless BoChuang, and if I keep getting PB's with it I'll just let it be  Updated PB's are in my signature.

Also, I took advantage of the memorial day sale and ordered the new Yuxin 4x4 and 6x6 from The Cubicle (stickerless of course). Looking forward to those when they get here


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## Logiqx (May 31, 2016)

Shaky Hands said:


> Just caught up on the last 10 pages or so. Don't seem to have had email notifications from this thread for a while, but great to see the amount of success that people have been having, with PB singles and averages, as well as learning new methods. Great stuff everyone!
> 
> Personally, I've managed PB's for both single and average recently in everything from 4x4 to 7x7 so have been doing well with those. 3x3 continues to be variable, but fun.
> 
> ...


Apparently it was delivered this morning. I'll find out when i get home tonight.

i guess the household chores will have to wait. Lol

Regarding e-perm, I find it one of the most fun to execute quickly. Be sure to check you're using the right fingertricks. 

Sent from my GT-I9305 using Tapatalk


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## Logiqx (May 31, 2016)

odouhaha said:


> Hi, I am a 41 year old enthusiast in cubing from the Netherlands. One year ago I solved my first cube, since I have been practicing a lot and got an average of sub 40 and a pb of 24.09 (only time in 20s) but on average I keep between 30-50s which for the last months doesn't seem to change much.. I hope to improve still and my aim is to be a sub 20 cuber on average. I enjoy reading this thread and am happy to find that there are a lot more people my age doing speed solving.


Hi. You've come to the right place!

We all started in the same way and this thread has helped several of us to achieve sub-20 global averages.

Keep practicing, believe in yourself and you'll get to sub-20.

Sent from my GT-I9305 using Tapatalk


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## odouhaha (May 31, 2016)

Jason Green said:


> Glad to have you here!


Thanks!



Logiqx said:


> Hi. You've come to the right place!
> 
> We all started in the same way and this thread has helped several of us to achieve sub-20 global averages.
> 
> ...


Thanks!



newtonbase said:


> Hello. Nice to have you here. Do you do any other events?


Hi thanks! I recently bought a 2x2 and manage to solve that under 20sec  so also long way to go there as well. I have not attended any tournament yet but am planning to go next month to watch and get to know some cubers.


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## MarcelP (May 31, 2016)

odouhaha said:


> Hi thanks! I recently bought a 2x2 and manage to solve that under 20sec  so also long way to go there as well. I have not attended any tournament yet but am planning to go next month to watch and get to know some cubers.


Feel free to come and visit the West Friesche Open on Sunday June 26th.


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## Shaky Hands (May 31, 2016)

odouhaha said:


> I have not attended any tournament yet but am planning to go next month to watch and get to know some cubers.



Hi and welcome to the thread.

My advice would be that if you're going to a competition, to compete anyway as it's all good practice. Don't worry about your times too much. I couldn't break 50 seconds at 3x3 in my first competition but I found it a really useful experience nonetheless.

Good luck with your cubing adventures!


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## mafergut (May 31, 2016)

earth2dan said:


> Just did my averages for the 4x4 and 5x5 race threads and set AO5 and AO12 PB's in both! I'm glad I've been taking the time to break in my G4, I'm starting to really like it. I still haven't done anything to set up my stickerless BoChuang, and if I keep getting PB's with it I'll just let it be  Updated PB's are in my signature.
> 
> Also, I took advantage of the memorial day sale and ordered the new Yuxin 4x4 and 6x6 from The Cubicle (stickerless of course). Looking forward to those when they get here



Please keep me posted as soon as you receive those cubes. Both are really promising and, while I don't think I'm gonna need a new 4x4 (loving my G4, you know ), the 6x6 is definitely on my shopping list but I think I can wait a bit more, until I get my 5x5 times down to 3:00 - 3:30 average . Talking about 5x5 I changed from using the black BoChuang to the stickerless Yuxin and I'm liking it, probably not better than the BoChuang but as much at least so, moving on to stickerless in all cubes but 3x3 now. I still have all non-cubes in stickered flavor and they will stay as they are until a new puzzle worth buying shows up, then I'll get them in stickerless. Well, some are already available, like Qiyi skewb (it's in my shopping list), others will likely arrive soon such as Qiyi Mega and XMD Pyra.

By the way, @odouhaha, welcome to the thread!


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## odouhaha (May 31, 2016)

MarcelP said:


> Feel free to come and visit the West Friesche Open on Sunday June 26th.


I will!


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## odouhaha (May 31, 2016)

odouhaha said:


> I will!


Tried to register but registration closed unfortunately


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## odouhaha (May 31, 2016)

Shaky Hands said:


> Hi and welcome to the thread.
> 
> My advice would be that if you're going to a competition, to compete anyway as it's all good practice. Don't worry about your times too much. I couldn't break 50 seconds at 3x3 in my first competition but I found it a really useful experience nonetheless.
> 
> Good luck with your cubing adventures!


How long did it take you to go down from 50+ to 30 avg?


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## MarcelP (May 31, 2016)

odouhaha said:


> Tried to register but registration closed unfortunately


Yeah, I am sorry. And also the waiting list is filled with a lot of people.


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## Shaky Hands (May 31, 2016)

odouhaha said:


> How long did it take you to go down from 50+ to 30 avg?



Not sure in terms of duration, but back when I was doing mostly timed-solves, it took about 1000 timed solves to get from 50s to 40s and then about another 5000 solves to get from 40s to 30s.

I'm not a good example though, I spent too much time solving without learning new stuff and I more or less brute-forced my times down when there are better ways of going about it.



Logiqx said:


> Apparently it was delivered this morning. I'll find out when i get home tonight.
> 
> i guess the household chores will have to wait. Lol
> 
> Regarding e-perm, I find it one of the most fun to execute quickly. Be sure to check you're using the right fingertricks.



Enjoy your delivery. I got a Yuxin 5x5 in stickerless, a ridged stickerless megaminx, a keyring 3x3, a 1x1 (I'm thinking about rolling it as a dice to pick a cross-colour when experimenting with CN) and a stickerless SQ-1.

I rewatched Chris Olsen's video re: E-perm. He uses his left ring finger for D and D' moves. I'm using my left ring finger for D and my right ring finger for D'. Will experiment a bit. Thanks for the prompt.


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## phreaker (May 31, 2016)

Shaky Hands said:


> I rewatched Chris Olsen's video re: E-perm. He uses his left ring finger for D and D' moves. I'm using my left ring finger for D and my right ring finger for D'. Will experiment a bit. Thanks for the prompt.



How do you use your left ring for D'? I face that issue in OH solving also.


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## Shaky Hands (May 31, 2016)

phreaker said:


> How do you use your left ring for D'? I face that issue in OH solving also.



He seems to be resting the nail of his left ring finger against the left-down block and then flicks it away.

Video is here:


----------



## Jason Green (May 31, 2016)

phreaker said:


> How do you use your left ring for D'? I face that issue in OH solving also.


I actually do that now also, but I'm not very smooth with it. But I think the pause it saves makes up for not using my right ring finger.


----------



## One Wheel (May 31, 2016)

Jason Green said:


> I actually do that now also, but I'm not very smooth with it. But I think the pause it saves makes up for not using my right ring finger.



I was having a lot of trouble with E-perms until I watched that video and relearned my E-perm. My cube would deform and lock up when I was doing U and D' with my right hand and U' and D with my left hand.


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## mafergut (May 31, 2016)

I don't even use that E-perm but it looks like it's the one everybody uses... Maybe I should try it.


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## h2f (May 31, 2016)

mafergut said:


> I don't even use that E-perm but it looks like it's the one everybody uses... Maybe I should try it.



Yes it's fast. I use it in Roux for diagonal swap. It consists of two common used OLL's. Or in other words of two nice comms.


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## Logiqx (May 31, 2016)

Shaky Hands said:


> He seems to be resting the nail of his left ring finger against the left-down block and then flicks it away.
> 
> Video is here:


It's more of a pull... push action. It works well for e-perm and a number of the RUD algs.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk


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## mark49152 (May 31, 2016)

PLL attack 48.25. Any faster oldies?


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## Logiqx (May 31, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> PLL attack 48.25. Any faster oldies?



I've never done one but I think it would be cool for a sup-40 cuber to do sub-40. 

I won't try it whilst on the train. I am sure it WOULD annoy everyone in the carriage!


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## Jason Green (May 31, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> PLL attack 48.25. Any faster oldies?


I don't think I could do them all without visually seeing the cases. I'd get something messed up.


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## Shaky Hands (May 31, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> PLL attack 48.25. Any faster oldies?



Not even close. I'm about 1m 15s when I don't DNF it.


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## mafergut (May 31, 2016)

Jason Green said:


> I don't think I could do them all without visually seeing the cases. I'd get something messed up.


I have never tried either but the problem you describe is what I suffer with OLL. My muscle memory triggers by the visual stimulus of the OLL and if I ever hesitate I'm already lost, at least with like than half of them (the less common). On the other hand, PLLs do not seem to rely so much in visual cues so, you can tell me "do an E-perm", or F-perm or whatever and I could easily do the alg... as long as you don't want me to do it slowly, then I'm lost again. I thought that would have improved with OH but, curiously enough I seem to only be able to do PLLs slowly with one hand and not with two hands (again, this is only true for part of my PLLs). It's like the memory of the same PLL for OH and 2H is completely different.


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## Lid (May 31, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> PLL attack 48.25. Any faster oldies?


Yes... peeeew... 47.56 after some tries :confused:

Now I need some rest 

New Gigaminx PB (done last week): 16:19


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## mark49152 (May 31, 2016)

Logiqx said:


> I've never done one but I think it would be cool for a sup-40 cuber to do sub-40.


How about a race to sub-42? Because 2 sec per alg, and life the universe and everything.


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## Jason Green (May 31, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> How about a race to sub-42? Because 2 sec per alg, and life the universe and everything.


That sounds really cool! I might try but really doubt I can finish. Do you do an order that ends with it solved? Recommend any order?


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## mafergut (May 31, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> How about a race to sub-42? Because 2 sec per alg, and life the universe and everything.


Is there a way to like a post more than once? Because your post deserves at least... 42 likes  Because, you know, every hitchhiker needs his/her own guide to the galaxy.

On a more serious tone... how do you go about doing those PLL attacks? Do you do the algs in a certain order? Like alphabetical or something? I'm sure I'd beat your times because I would forget to do half the PLLs


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## Jason Green (May 31, 2016)

mafergut said:


> Is there a way to like a post more than once? Because your post deserves at least... 42 likes [emoji14] Because, you know, every hitchhiker needs his/her own guide to the galaxy.
> 
> On a more serious tone... how do you go about doing those PLL attacks? Do you do the algs in a certain order? Like alphabetical or something? I'm sure I'd beat your times because I would forget to do half the PLLs


You know what? I think Mark found the question...


----------



## JanW (May 31, 2016)

Thread is moving fast. 

Welcome to @phreaker and @odouhaha! This is a great thread to hang around in for inspiration and encouragment.


phreaker said:


> People keep acting like cubing is an expensive hobby, compared to most adult ones, it isn't bad at all.


So true. I used to think running is a nice cheap hobby, but you can get quite a lot of cubes for the price of a pair of decent running shoes.


odouhaha said:


> How long did it take you to go down from 50+ to 30 avg?


My first post was October 21st, at that time I was barely sub-1 minute. Exactly 2 months later, December 21st, I posted results close to 30 seconds. Hah, wow, didn't realize progress was that fast until I looked at the dates just now! I did do a lot of solves in those 2 months though. After that, I had a 4 month break and picked up the cube again late April to finally break the 30 second barrier.


Shaky Hands said:


> I don't like E-perm either. But without wishing to discourage you, I don't feel it's worth practicing as much as some of the other PLL's as it comes up less often. When I was doing 2-look PLL, I switched from an E-perm to a Y-perm as it flows so much better for me.


I was thinking about switching to some other PLL as well for diagonal swap in 2-look PLL. Might look into the Y-perm again. I should probably learn that one next anyway.


----------



## newtonbase (May 31, 2016)

I've tried that funny business of pushing with the back of my nail and it's hopeless. I have pretty poor control of my ring and little fingers as it is (I don't use my little finger independently at all). 
PLL time attack in 42s is impressive. I won't be trying it.


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## Chree (May 31, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> PLL attack 48.25. Any faster oldies?



I think my fastest was a 42.xy or 43.xy.


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## phreaker (May 31, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> I've tried that funny business of pushing with the back of my nail and it's hopeless. I have pretty poor control of my ring and little fingers as it is (I don't use my little finger independently at all).
> PLL time attack in 42s is impressive. I won't be trying it.



Do some OH... you'll learn


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## mafergut (May 31, 2016)

phreaker said:


> Do some OH... you'll learn


I was going to say exactly that 
OH is a really good training for your left pinky or ring (even though almost everyone will recommend you to use pinky and not ring for R/R'). Well, that's in case you choose your left hand for OH.


----------



## phreaker (May 31, 2016)

mafergut said:


> I was going to say exactly that
> OH is a really good training for your left pinky or ring (even though almost everyone will recommend you to use pinky and not ring for R/R'). Well, that's in case you choose your left hand for OH.



Ring is for D/D' .


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## mafergut (May 31, 2016)

phreaker said:


> Ring is for D/D' .


Yep, I have problems at OH with algs that have R then D because after my pinky has to reach for R it has to retract so that ring has mobility to do D. Maybe other people has more independence of movement between those two fingers but mine are almost welded together


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## Jason Green (May 31, 2016)

phreaker said:


> Ring is for D/D' .


And R R' too, at least how I do it, which is not much. I never thought I could use my pinky but I can a little bit now.

Edit: nevermind I meant pinky not ring, I misread your post.


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## newtonbase (May 31, 2016)

Just had a go and I can't do R' with my pinky at all. I'll try with a smaller cube later on.


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## Chree (May 31, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> Just had a go and I can't do R' with my pinky at all. I'll try with a smaller cube later on.



Not sure how long you've been trying... but keep trying! My pinky was also very uncooperative when I first tried doing OH. It took a few days before I even felt ambitious enough to make it through F2L, let alone an entire solve. And months before I could call it "comfortable".

If you've never done it before, you basically have zero muscles that are interested in making that kind of movement. You're re-training your hand to do an entirely new thing. Gonna take time and a ton patience.


----------



## earth2dan (May 31, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> How about a race to sub-42? Because 2 sec per alg, and life the universe and everything.


Bonus likes for this deep thought


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## phreaker (May 31, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> Just had a go and I can't do R' with my pinky at all. I'll try with a smaller cube later on.


That's 100% normal at first, if you are an adult male with "average" size hands, you should be able to handle a 56/57mm cube with practice. But it will take practice.


Chree said:


> Not sure how long you've been trying... but keep trying! My pinky was also very uncooperative when I first tried doing OH. It took a few days before I even felt ambitious enough to make it through F2L, let alone an entire solve. And months before I could call it "comfortable".
> 
> If you've never done it before, you basically have zero muscles that are interested in making that kind of movement. You're re-training your hand to do an entirely new thing. Gonna take time and a ton patience.



I actually used a 42mm Zhanchi to build my hand through that point, and then made the jump to 56/57mm by trying it a few times until it stuck finally this weekend. Now I can run through full solves, and learn PLL on the full size cube.

I really like the 42mm though... I'm keeping mine . So cute.


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## h2f (May 31, 2016)

phreaker said:


> I actually used a 42mm Zhanchi to build my hand through that point, and then made the jump to 56/57mm by trying it a few times until it stuck finally this weekend. Now I can run through full solves, and learn PLL on the full size cube.
> 
> I really like the 42mm though... I'm keeping mine . So cute.



There's no need to use small cubes. Try normal and keep pushing.


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## newtonbase (May 31, 2016)

Chree said:


> Gonna take time and a ton patience.





phreaker said:


> That's 100% normal at first, if you are an adult male with "average" size hands, you should be able to handle a 56/57mm cube with practice. But it will take practice.



Adult male but with the hands of a girl. I'm time poor too so OH practice won't be happening I'm afraid.


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## phreaker (May 31, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> Adult male but with the hands of a girl. I'm time poor too so OH practice won't be happening I'm afraid.



If my wife were to take up OH, she'd have to use a 42mm. Maybe she could use a 50mm. Even Antoine learned on a 50mm, then moved up. There is no shame in small cubes.


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## newtonbase (May 31, 2016)

I do have both of those cubes and maybe I'll have a play around with them but I already have more events to practice than I have time for. 
I'm arranging to go to a film premier in Sheffield in a couple of weeks. There are other showings much closer to home but this means I get a 2 and a half hour practice session on the train.


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## earth2dan (May 31, 2016)

Yeah, OH is definitely a grind at first. I genuinely thought I just physically couldn't do it. Persevere and eventually your fingers will start cooperating. My OH times are still terrible. I rarely break 1 min, but that's mainly because I revert to beginner OLL and 2-look PLL as I haven't practiced enough to learn efficient OH algs.

I just compiled 27 months of timed 3x3 solves from my cell phone timer. Obviously this isn't all my solves, just the ones I used my phone to time. Though, it's a pretty good representation of my overall progress over the last couple years and where I'm at now. Progress is slow these days :/



Spoiler: 3x3 Progress


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## Logiqx (May 31, 2016)

No excuses oldies... 1.22s E-perm - 13TPS

Left ring finger for D/D' moves. 

Edit... added slow motion as well.


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## Jason Green (May 31, 2016)

I gotta time some more with the mat this way


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## Shaky Hands (May 31, 2016)

Got most of the way through the final layer of my first attempt at a Megaminx solve with my new stickerless mega from the Cubicle order. Wasn't applying much pressure and the whole thing popped. A screw literally jumped out and whizzed past my eye. There's still one center cap that I haven't found yet.

Then I managed to pop my regular 5x5.

Clearly it's time to go to bed before something else goes wrong!


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## Logiqx (May 31, 2016)

Jason Green said:


> I gotta time some more with the mat this way



This isn't something regular for me but I should probably time all of my PLLs.

I just tried J-perm and got 0.92s... yay sub-1!


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## One Wheel (May 31, 2016)

Logiqx said:


> No excuses oldies... 1.22s E-perm - 13TPS



Never really tried timing algs before. Just did a 3.46 Ao5 E-perms, or 4.62 tps. I think U-perms are my fastest overall, I got as good as 2.32 Ao5/2.15 single, just now, which only works out to 3/3.26 tps htm or 4.31/4.65 qtm. I'll have to play with that more later.


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## Chree (May 31, 2016)

phreaker said:


> If my wife were to take up OH, she'd have to use a 42mm. Maybe she could use a 50mm. Even Antoine learned on a 50mm, then moved up. There is no shame in small cubes.



Amen! I still main with a 50mm Zhanchi. Even bought a new one to replace my first 50 a couple months back. I might have to start hoarding these things since apparently no one's making mini cubes anymore *shakes fist at Moyu*



Shaky Hands said:


> Got most of the way through the final layer of my first attempt at a Megaminx solve with my new stickerless mega from the Cubicle order. Wasn't applying much pressure and the whole thing popped. A screw literally jumped out and whizzed past my eye. There's still one center cap that I haven't found yet.
> 
> Then I managed to pop my regular 5x5.
> 
> Clearly it's time to go to bed before something else goes wrong!



Buuuuummer. That seems to be happening to a lot of people these days... defective Megas. There's an entire thread about it: https://www.speedsolving.com/forum/threads/dayan-megaminx-keeps-popping-screw-on-one-side.60750/


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## Shaky Hands (Jun 1, 2016)

Chree said:


> Buuuuummer. That seems to be happening to a lot of people these days... defective Megas. There's an entire thread about it: https://www.speedsolving.com/forum/threads/dayan-megaminx-keeps-popping-screw-on-one-side.60750/



Thanks, I hadn't seen that thread. And yes, this is/was a Dayan.


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## mark49152 (Jun 1, 2016)

Lid said:


> Yes... peeeew... 47.56 after some tries :confused:


Just 0.01 short of my PB 47.55 set in Jan 2015, so the challenge remains . Despite getting way faster at everything since then, that PB still stands and the 48.25 today is the closest I've got.



mafergut said:


> Is there a way to like a post more than once? Because your post deserves at least... 42 likes  Because, you know, every hitchhiker needs his/her own guide to the galaxy.


I wonder if that would have been recognised outside this thread. How old does one have to be?  I remember watching it on TV when it first aired, one episode per week.



mafergut said:


> On a more serious tone... how do you go about doing those PLL attacks? Do you do the algs in a certain order? Like alphabetical or something? I'm sure I'd beat your times because I would forget to do half the PLLs





Jason Green said:


> That sounds really cool! I might try but really doubt I can finish. Do you do an order that ends with it solved? Recommend any order?



Yes I drill PLLs in groups of three that return to the solved state. I do PLL attacks as those seven groups in order. I can post the groups tomorrow if anyone's interested. It does require doing some AUFs between algs, and exactly what AUFs will depend on your algs.

Occasionally I forget a whole group and am shocked to see a sub-40 time


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## SenorJuan (Jun 1, 2016)

All this talk about OH, and how hard it is to do R' with yer pinky. True, it's dang hard to do any turn OH when you first start out, but I soon came to the conclusion that R' was just not viable, and reaching over and doing it with the index finger would lead to greater success. And I've stuck with that decision. If you practice enough, it's plenty quick enough, I'm sure young cubers will say it's slower, but for me, other factors limit my OH solve times.


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## muchacho (Jun 1, 2016)

I was going to buy a mini Weilong for OH, the normal sized one it's ok but I'm guessing one a bit smaller would be slightly better for me, and anyway I might need to set it up differently than for 2H... but apparently the stickerless one apparently comes with pink instead of red


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## h2f (Jun 1, 2016)

SenorJuan said:


> All this talk about OH...



It makes me practice OH Roux. Best single so far. My avg is around 55 seconds.


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## muchacho (Jun 1, 2016)

Very nice! I'll try to film one good solve (a good one meaning for me probably 5x.yy)


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## h2f (Jun 1, 2016)

muchacho said:


> Very nice! I'll try to film one good solve (a good one meaning for me probably 5x.yy)



Thanks..  I've discovered Weilong v1 is nice to OH. I knew many Roux solvers and OH solvers told so but it's not the same to feel it.


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## Shaky Hands (Jun 1, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> I wonder if that would have been recognised outside this thread. How old does one have to be?  I remember watching it on TV when it first aired, one episode per week.



I have a niece in her mid-20s that would know it, but then again she has an uncle that loves cult TV. Don't think the movie version got enough traction to stay in the next generation's minds; that was something of a missed opportunity.

But the whole 42 thing is a part of modern cultural history. I see people wearing a themed T-shirt every now and again too.


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## mafergut (Jun 1, 2016)

@mark49152 Yeah, sure, Mark, I would be glad to have that grouping/ordering info so that I can try a PLL time attack myself, because right now I'm lost regarding how to approach that.

Also, Michael, @Logiqx, very nice E-perm time. I'm sure my will be around 2-3 seconds. I timed all my PLLs some time ago and had 0 PLLs sub-1 and not that many sub-2, but with stackmat and wrists I think I can get a bit faster than with spacebar. Will try this weekend 

Also @Shaky Hands I am one of those guys that got a deffective Dayan Mega that shoots screws and center caps in the air when you're solving it. Had to tighten it to the point it is unusable and it still loosens up very quickly when turning certain faces so I just put it in a drawer and was done with it.

Regarding index finger for R' I use it at times depending on the alg and where my fingers are at that moment. I do that in some OLLs and in my old V-perm (I'm learning a new one for both 2H and OH). Most of the time, tough, I just use my pinky. Once you get used to it it's not that bad but I'm nowhere near fast at OH. I use a regular size 3x3, though. I have a Weilong mini and it's definitely too small for me, I prefer the 56-57 size but my hands are somewhat large (I'm 1.88m tall).

@earth2dan: I see your graph and it looks like mine from some months ago. It looks like improvement is not happening any more, but it happens... even tough very slowly. Give it a year and tell me where your at by then.


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## MarcelP (Jun 1, 2016)

mafergut said:


> .. very nice E-perm time. I'm sure my will be around 2-3 seconds. I timed all my PLLs some time ago and had 0 PLLs sub-1 and not that many sub-2, but with stackmat and wrists I think I can get a bit faster than with spacebar.



That's cool.. I do not think even my fastest PLL is sub 2  My E perm is definatly su*p* 3


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## Logiqx (Jun 1, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> Just 0.01 short of my PB 47.55 set in Jan 2015, so the challenge remains .



Challenge accepted but I'm going to need some practice!

I've not attempted a PLL attack so I've been experimenting with the following groups:

Na Nb V Y - diag swaps - best 8.675 / 2.169 per alg
E Aa Ab - comms - best 5.608 / 1.869 per alg
H Z Ua Ub - MU - best 6.473 / 1.618 per alg
Ga Gb Gc Gd - yuck - best 9.561 / 2.413 per alg
T Ra Rb - headlight cases - best 6.046 / 2.015 per alg
Ja Jb F - bar cases - best 5.331 / 1.777 per alg

These times add up to sub-42 and I've managed each half sub-23 but I haven't got through the whole lot at speed without messing up. My wrists are aching after attempting this without warming up. Doh!


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## muchacho (Jun 1, 2016)

I'm not sure if I'll ever attempt a CMLL attack, but I've individually timed all the cases I know for now. These are the best times after trying each one for 10-15 times.

S1: 1.27

As1: 1.22

U1: 2.77
U2: 2.19
U3: 2.48
U4: 2.32
U5: 2.25
U6: 1.32

T1: 2.72
T2: 2.69
T3: 1.90
T4: 1.64
T5: 1.53
T6: 3.28

L1: 2.81
L2: 2.64
L3: 2.56
L4: 1.55
L5: 1.56
L6: 2.82

Pi1: 1.55
Pi2: 3.06
Pi3: 2.93
Pi4: 2.78
Pi5: 2.48
Pi6: 2.61

H1: 1.72
H2: 1.93
H3: 1.99
H4: 2.05

O1: 1.80
O2: 2.95


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## Jason Green (Jun 1, 2016)

I know 42 from the books.


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## mafergut (Jun 1, 2016)

MarcelP said:


> That's cool.. I do not think even my fastest PLL is sub 2  My E perm is definatly su*p* 3


I found a text document from december where I put my average times for all my PLLs. As I said 0 sub-1 and not that many sub-2 and my E-perm is around 3 seconds. Let's see when i change it for the RUD one. Just some examples (I don't want to bore you with the complete list):

H Avg. 2.02 best 1.59 (M2 alg)
Ua Avg. 1.65 best 1.34 (R, U alg, bar in front)
Ua Avg. 2.05 best 1.76 (M, U alg, bar in back)
Z Avg. 2.55 best 2.00 (R, U alg)
Aa Avg. 1.80 best 1.51
Aa Avg. 2.18 best 1.99 (left hand mirror)
E Avg. 2.93 best 2.51 (x) U R' U' L U R U' r2 U' R U L U' R' U (x)
Ga Avg. 2.11 best 1.74
Gb Avg. 2.34 best 2.11
Ja Avg. 2.45 best 2.20
Jb Avg. 1.93 best 1.55 (T-perm conj.)
Nb Avg. 2.57 best 2.25 (R' U R U' R' F' U' F R U R' F R' F' R U' R)
Ra Avg. 2.40 best 2.34 (R U2 R' U2 R B' R' U' R U R B R2 U)
T Avg. 1.91 best 1.45
V Avg. 2.80 best 2.41 ((y) r' F R F' r U r' F R' F' r U2 R U2 R')
Y Avg. 2.09 best 1.79


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## earth2dan (Jun 1, 2016)

I've never attempted a full PLL time attack. In fact, I haven't drilled PLL's at all in a long time. For the last several months my main focus has been improving my F2L and look ahead. 

I'll give it a go this evening. I figured I would just do it alphabetically to minimize chances of missing one, but I kinda like the way @Logiqx has them grouped. I think my first goal would be to get under 60s, as I'm sure I'll be over


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## Shaky Hands (Jun 1, 2016)

Logiqx said:


> I've not attempted a PLL attack so I've been experimenting with the following groups:
> 
> Na Nb V Y - diag swaps - best 8.675 / 2.169 per alg
> E Aa Ab - comms - best 5.608 / 1.869 per alg
> ...



Looks very good. I tried myself with these groupings and got:

Na Nb V Y..... 12.62 av 3.16
E Aa Ab..... 12.09 av 4.03
H Z Ua Ub..... 11.65 av 2.91
T Ra Rb..... 8.55 av 2.85
Ja Jb F..... 7.20 av 2.40

EDIT: oops, missed the G-perms and previously had wrong time for (T Ra Rb):
Ga Gb Gc Gd...... 12.08 av 3.02

Total: 64.19

I suspect the fact my PLL for the group of (E Aa Ab) is more than twice the length of yours says a lot about your ability with an E-perm compared to mine!


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## Logiqx (Jun 1, 2016)

Jason Green said:


> I know 42 from the books.



For a second, I thought you were referring to 42 CxLL cases. lol


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## JanW (Jun 1, 2016)

Have to learn PLL before I can join you guys in the PLL attacks. 

In the meantime, I'll keep improving ZZ. New PB single: 22.45

This time I managed to find the exact reconstruction of my solve:

L2 B U F2 L2 D L2 U2 R2 D' R2 F2 D2 R2 D' R' B2 L' U R' B' D2 B L2 F2

x2 // Inspection

R D' L U F // EOLine (places orange cross edge as well)
U R U' R // F2L 1
U' L U L2 U' L // F2L 2
U' L U' L' // F2L 3
U2 R' U2 R2 U R2 U R // F2L 4
R U2 R2 U' R2 U' R2 U2 R // OLL
U l' U R' D2 R U' R' D2 R2 // PLL

47 stm. 47/22.45=2.09 tps

Looking at that reconstruction, I can see some clear misses in look ahead. After the EOLine, I could have gotten two F2L pairs inserted with U R L' U' R2 U' R', had I spotted the completed F2L pair at front left. Also, the transition from 2nd to 3rd F2l pair, I did not see the 3rd pair until I finished insertion of 2nd pair. So the end of 2nd and beginning of 3rd now went L U' L U', when it could have been L2 U2 instead. This one is a bit of an eye opener. I'm really not looking ahead as well as I should. That 3rd pair should be impossible to miss if I'm actively looking for it instead of focusing on the pair I am inserting.

But this time it was lucky, my small mistakes got me a PLL I knew. All's well that ends well.


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## h2f (Jun 1, 2016)

muchacho said:


> I'm not sure if I'll ever attempt a CMLL attack, but I've individually timed all the cases I know for now. These are the best times after trying each one for 10-15 times.
> 
> S1: 1.27
> 
> ...



I've lost an hour . Best of 6 (sometimes more). Some are good, some are bad. But it's only cmll attack. During speedsolve I'm far slower:

a1 (jperm) 1.57
a2 (e perm) 1.44

b1 (antisune) 0.89
b2 2.11
b3 1.54
b4 1.32
b5 1.16
b6 1.97

c1 (sune) 0.97
c2 1.52
c3 1.63
c4 1.79
c5 0.91
c6 2.28

d1 (L case) 1.68
d2 1.57
d3 1.48
d4 0.61
d5 0.83
d6 1.54

e1 (U set) 2.26
e2 1.49
e3 1.48
e4 1.84
e5 1.41
e6 0.99

f1 (Tset) 2.66
f2 2.11
f3 0.76
f4 2.27
f5 0.77
f6 2.4

g1 (Pi set )1.24
g2 1.56
g3 1.72
g4 1.79
g5 1.54
g6 1.59

h1 1.25
h2 1.61
h3 1.99
h4 1.59


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## muchacho (Jun 1, 2016)

Oh wow, that convinced me the most, I'm going to try to learn to execute the E perm like a pro right now!

I guess your time does not include the rotations, right?


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## h2f (Jun 1, 2016)

Yes. No rotations. I did like Mike with timer on legs. 

patataj patataj patataj


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## muchacho (Jun 1, 2016)

I think it may be good enough even with rotations, I'm getting 4.xx already.


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## h2f (Jun 1, 2016)

muchacho said:


> I think it may be good enough even with rotations, I'm getting 4.xx already.



I think it's good as a startup.


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## Logiqx (Jun 1, 2016)

Finally got my new cubes! 

I decided to do an unboxing for you guys but it was cut short by a pizza delivery. hehe


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## EvilGnome6 (Jun 2, 2016)

Finally! My first sub-6 7x7 solve.


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## mafergut (Jun 2, 2016)

EvilGnome6 said:


> Finally! My first sub-6 7x7 solve.



Wow! That's something like a 15 second solve in a 3x3 or even better. What do you average at 2x2 to 7x7? Are your official times a good representation? Because we have already talked about that but, man!, you are so fast at big cubes!

Your current official records (single & Avg):
2x2 4.74 5.57
3x3 16.88 22.37
4x4 1:09.14 1:17.77
5x5 2:15.60 2:30.11
6x6 4:17.08 4:21.00
7x7 7:27.60 7:42.56

EDIT: Yesterday in my train commute I had 1h 5x5 practice and I decided to time the solves (I never dare time my 3x3 solves while on the train to avoid disturbing other passengers). Got a new PB of 3:29.xx (it should have been 2sec faster but I had a fight with my phone to stop the timer). It's nice when at the beginning of practicing a new event you can shave off 15 seconds of your PB in just one day but I feel so far from those official times of yours. Even sub-3:00 feels so out of reach right now.


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## MarcelP (Jun 2, 2016)

JanW said:


> Have to learn PLL before I can join you guys in the PLL attacks.
> 
> In the meantime, I'll keep improving ZZ. New PB single: 22.45
> 
> ...


Very cool solve. Might I suggest that instead of learning OLL and PLL's you learn COLL. If you do ZZ you always end up with oriented edges. So if you know the 42 COLL (from where you allready know a few from CFOP propably), that leaves you with only 4 PLL's (the fastest ones H, Z Ua and Ub). Cool stuff Jan, keep it up!


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## mafergut (Jun 2, 2016)

Logiqx said:


> Challenge accepted but I'm going to need some practice!
> 
> I've not attempted a PLL attack so I've been experimenting with the following groups:
> 
> ...



I jus tried the T, Ra, Rb group like 20 times and my best was 6.98, with an average of around 7.50. I still feel strange though and have slight pauses between algs. I was playing "find the AUFs that end up with the cube solved after the 3 PLLs"


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## EvilGnome6 (Jun 2, 2016)

mafergut said:


> Wow! That's something like a 15 second solve in a 3x3 or even better. What do you average at 2x2 to 7x7? Are your official times a good representation? Because we have already talked about that but, man!, you are so fast at big cubes!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Everything there is pretty representative except for 7x7. I'm averaging between 6:30 and 6:45 on 7x7 at the moment. I hadn't done any 7x7 in a few months and I resumed practicing it last week to get ready for the next competition. It only took a day to get back up to speed.



> It's nice when at the beginning of practicing a new event you can shave off 15 seconds of your PB in just one day but I feel so far from those official times of yours. Even sub-3:00 feels so out of reach right now.



All big cube practice seems to make you better at other big cubes. I can focus on one of them for a few months and make improvements and I'll be faster at the other ones when I get back to them. I think I got to sub-3 on 5x5 in about 4 or 5 months. I know it was all I did for a few months after I got it and those times dropped pretty fast. Getting sub-2 will be a challenge but I think i can get there. My hands are slowly getting faster.


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## h2f (Jun 2, 2016)

Finally I go it:


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## muchacho (Jun 2, 2016)

Congrats I guess, happy headaches!


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## h2f (Jun 2, 2016)

I was thinking the same way. But if showed quite easy - solve edges, put corners and 3 cycle for small parts.


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## JanW (Jun 2, 2016)

@MarcelP Thanks! Yeah, I know COLL would make sense for ZZ. However, in the long run I think PLL is such a basic algset that I really should learn it. It's useful for so many different techniques, including bld. Learning it with ZZ is also nice, as I have a very easy OLL every time. Perhaps later I will learn some more COLL as well. Currently at 11/21 PLL algs, not much left to go.

It was suggested to switch E-perm for Y-perm in 2-look PLL. I'm definitely going to do that. I looked up the Y-perm yesterday and it was immediately very fast. The second half (sexy+sledge) happens to be one of the CPEOLL algs I've been using for a very long time and I have it pretty well drilled into my fingers.

@h2f nice! Looks scary though.

I placed my order for the GTS, YueXiao and a couple of other cubes with cubezz 2 weeks ago, expecting to get them maybe late June/early July. But now I already got a notice that a package from China is waiting for me at the post office. Can't wait to pick it up!


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## mark49152 (Jun 2, 2016)

New PLL attack PB: 46.92. The cube makes a huge difference. For regular solving, I prefer cubes that are a bit more stable and support me turning steadily. For attacks, it has to be fast and loose with effortless corner cutting, even if 80% of attempts fall apart. My favourite by a mile is Gans 356 .

Here are the groups I use, and PB (ao12) for each. Each ends solved, although depending on the algs you use, you may need to change the AUFs. For attacks, I do these groups in the order given.

Ga (U') Gc Aa = 6.72
Gd (U) Gb Ab = 7.12
Y Na Ua = 7.20
Nb V (U) Ub = 6.86
T F H = 7.03
Jb (U2) Ra E = 7.17
Ja (U) Rb Z = 7.27


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## earth2dan (Jun 2, 2016)

EvilGnome6 said:


> Finally! My first sub-6 7x7 solve.


Impressive! I still get excited for sub-10 7x7 sovles :/ My PB is 9:01, but the stars aligned for that one 

I just got my stickerless AoFu GT 7x7 yesterday. I was going to do an unboxing, but it arrived in the morning and I only have time to record a video at night... it was just far too long to wait 

I also have the stickered AoFu GT, and the original pillowed AoFu. My stickered GT feels amazing and I was hoping the stickerless would be the same, but it's not. It was covered in lube when I opened it, and it feels terrible. It's also got a loud spring noise when turning the white face. I think I might have to tear it down, clean it up, and then lube it properly. I did that with my original AoFu and it worked wonders for it. Though, the colours are very nice on the stickerless AoFu GT. It's basically the same shades as the stickerless BoChuang. I would like a darker blue, but this blue still looks good, and I have no problems with recognition.


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## Shaky Hands (Jun 2, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> New PLL attack PB: 46.92.



Well done, and thanks for the groupings.

Have you tried doing this on a big cube following on from what Joey said at the last comp re: your 3x3 stage on 4x4?


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## phreaker (Jun 2, 2016)

JanW said:


> @MarcelP Thanks! Yeah, I know COLL would make sense for ZZ. However, in the long run I think PLL is such a basic algset that I really should learn it. It's useful for so many different techniques, including bld. Learning it with ZZ is also nice, as I have a very easy OLL every time. Perhaps later I will learn some more COLL as well. Currently at 11/21 PLL algs, not much left to go.
> 
> It was suggested to switch E-perm for Y-perm in 2-look PLL. I'm definitely going to do that. I looked up the Y-perm yesterday and it was immediately very fast. The second half (sexy+sledge) happens to be one of the CPEOLL algs I've been using for a very long time and I have it pretty well drilled into my fingers.
> 
> ...



OLL/PLL isn't much worse than COLL/EPLL for ZZ. The real win is getting into ZZLL cases. 2GLL/ZBLL stuff .

I'm hoping my GTS comes in soon so I can see if it is worth the hype.


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## h2f (Jun 2, 2016)

Nice time @mark49152. All talks about 7x7 make me want to buy it.


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## mafergut (Jun 2, 2016)

phreaker said:


> OLL/PLL isn't much worse than COLL/EPLL for ZZ. The real win is getting into ZZLL cases. 2GLL/ZBLL stuff .
> 
> I'm hoping my GTS comes in soon so I can see if it is worth the hype.


I was going to say more or less the same. In particular, sune and antisune are pretty wonderfull algs that can be even easily learned and executed sub-1 in at least two orientations, so: fast OLL + no need of COLL recog time = more than enough compensation for leaving the PLL up to chance. Unless you can clearly sub-1.5 all your EPLLs (which I can't with Z-perm) or you have several terrible PLLs (and then you should find different algs for those) there's maybe not much difference, even for other 2nd look OLLs. The only 2nd Look OLL I really hate and would be the 1st COLL set I'd learn is the U case, for which I use this alg: y2 R2 D R' U2 R D' R' U2 R' (y2 meaning headlights at front). Well, I had another two I hated because I used a combo of F f sexy but I already learned RU algs for both of them. They were H (F 3x sexy F') case and Pi case (f sexy f' F sexy F').


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## mark49152 (Jun 2, 2016)

Shaky Hands said:


> Have you tried doing this on a big cube following on from what Joey said at the last comp re: your 3x3 stage on 4x4?


No, I'm still doing 2-look on 4x4 and can't even execute half the PLLs let alone do them fast . I did look at the splits of several solves and concluded that my 3x3 stage is not that bad. The solve with Joey must have been an outlier.

I would still like to optimise my 3x3 stage but I haven't decided yet how to do it. I really should learn full big-cube PLL anyway for 5x5. On 4x4, OLL and COLL would be more useful. With OLL it's always possible to recognise the case quickly. With PLL, case recognition is harder and/or slower, which means I could waste time doing an F perm instead of a fast A perm (as I would for 2-look) only to find I still have parity to fix. Perhaps I will learn just the diagonal swap PLLs since they are all equally slow.


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## JanW (Jun 2, 2016)

phreaker said:


> OLL/PLL isn't much worse than COLL/EPLL for ZZ. The real win is getting into ZZLL cases. 2GLL/ZBLL stuff .
> 
> I'm hoping my GTS comes in soon so I can see if it is worth the hype.


I know a bit of 2GLL. All T cases, some pi cases (knew them all but have forgotten) and a few random other cases. The T cases are nice, because it's very easy to see when the corners are already aligned in a ZZ solve.

For Sune and Anti-sune, my tip is that whenever you are about to perform one and you have a pair both on front and on the left (looking from the direction you'd normally do the Sune/AS algs), you should instead do a U', then sune/anti-sune from the back. This is not guaranteed to solve the cube, but at least you will get the 1lll solves whenever it's possible with back sune/anti-sune.

Just unboxed my GTS. Wow, it's fast! However, on the way to the post office I stopped by to meet a friend for a couple of beer, so I might not be in the sharpest condition to try it out right now.


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## mafergut (Jun 2, 2016)

when you say sune from the back what do you mean exactly?


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## JanW (Jun 2, 2016)

mafergut said:


> when you say sune from the back what do you mean exactly?


When you have an Anti-Sune, you can also solve the corners with U', then R' U' R U' R' U2 R = sune from the back. Similarly, the regular sune case, if you do U', you can solve it with R' U2 R U R' U R.


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## phreaker (Jun 2, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> No, I'm still doing 2-look on 4x4 and can't even execute half the PLLs let alone do them fast . I did look at the splits of several solves and concluded that my 3x3 stage is not that bad. The solve with Joey must have been an outlier.
> 
> I would still like to optimise my 3x3 stage but I haven't decided yet how to do it. I really should learn full big-cube PLL anyway for 5x5. On 4x4, OLL and COLL would be more useful. With OLL it's always possible to recognise the case quickly. With PLL, case recognition is harder and/or slower, which means I could waste time doing an F perm instead of a fast A perm (as I would for 2-look) only to find I still have parity to fix. Perhaps I will learn just the diagonal swap PLLs since they are all equally slow.



PLL recognition can be pretty quick. There's a system for looking at two sides, and knowing what PLL is involved. I'm not good at it, but I'm learning, as I pickup more PLL.


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## mafergut (Jun 2, 2016)

JanW said:


> When you have an Anti-Sune, you can also solve the corners with U', then R' U' R U' R' U2 R = sune from the back. Similarly, the regular sune case, if you do U', you can solve it with R' U2 R U R' U R.


So, if you have a Sune, you do a U' and then it's like an antisune on the back right. Now I get it. I tend to get confused because these are just a U' away from the regular orientation so I didn't think of them us "from the back". For me from the back would have meant more like a U2 and doing it lefty like L U L' U L U2 L'. The lefty ones I am trying to include them in my 2x2 Ortega OLL repertoire to avoid the U2 but maybe this option will be faster because the alg is righty... have to try them out.


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## Shaky Hands (Jun 2, 2016)

Has anyone else tried doing Match the Scramble? I just tried it in the Weekly Competition and found it quite fun.


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## mark49152 (Jun 2, 2016)

phreaker said:


> PLL recognition can be pretty quick. There's a system for looking at two sides, and knowing what PLL is involved. I'm not good at it, but I'm learning, as I pickup more PLL.


Yeah on 3x3 it's easy, I even wrote a guide for it a couple of years ago. On 4x4 you cannot recognise by two sides because of parity. The edges on the sides you can't see might be swapped. Looking at a third side and trying to conclude whether there is parity or not takes longer, at least for me. And then, if you spot parity, there is more than one PLL you could apply, and which is the shortest? Which one gives you opposite rather than adjacent parity?


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## mafergut (Jun 2, 2016)

Shaky Hands said:


> Has anyone else tried doing Match the Scramble? I just tried it in the Weekly Competition and found it quite fun.


Yeah, I did it for like 3-4 weeks in a row at the weekly comp and found it also to be fun. But right now I don't do much WC at all so... no more MTS. I think my best times were around 1:45 or so, with some variation of beginner's method.


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## Logiqx (Jun 2, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> Yeah on 3x3 it's easy, I even wrote a guide for it a couple of years ago. On 4x4 you cannot recognise by two sides because of parity. The edges on the sides you can't see might be swapped. Looking at a third side and trying to conclude whether there is parity or not takes longer, at least for me. And then, if you spot parity, there is more than one PLL you could apply, and which is the shortest? Which one gives you opposite rather than adjacent parity?


If I spot PLL parity, I just apply the opposite parity alg then solve the resulting PLL. Often times I can also choose my PLL with U or U' before the parity alg.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk


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## muchacho (Jun 2, 2016)

Shaky Hands said:


> Has anyone else tried doing Match the Scramble? I just tried it in the Weekly Competition and found it quite fun.


How is it done? it doesn't look easy :confused:


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## mark49152 (Jun 2, 2016)

Logiqx said:


> If I spot PLL parity, I just apply the opposite parity alg then solve the resulting PLL. Often times I can also choose my PLL with U or U' before the parity alg.


That's a better idea than being left with adjacent parity, but don't you need to do PLL recognition twice? Unless you are recognising the parity PLL case and you already know what case you'll get after the parity fix?


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## Shaky Hands (Jun 2, 2016)

muchacho said:


> How is it done? it doesn't look easy :confused:



I just used Old Pochmann and swapped individual cubies, but I suspect there's better methods.


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## h2f (Jun 2, 2016)

Match the scramble is funny when one do it like 3bld but with inverese executon.


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## Logiqx (Jun 2, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> That's a better idea than being left with adjacent parity, but don't you need to do PLL recognition twice? Unless you are recognising the parity PLL case and you already know what case you'll get after the parity fix?


The second look is not as bad as a full look or even EPLL recognition. 2 sides, corner permutation and location of headlights are already known so you only really have to check one side. The second look is pretty instant and I think with practice you will always know which PLL is coming. Some of the time I consciously choose the PLL prior to parity; T-perm or F-perm is the easiest to spot. Executing the parity alg from the correct angle avoids F-perm and guarantees T-perm.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk


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## mafergut (Jun 2, 2016)

muchacho said:


> How is it done? it doesn't look easy :confused:


I just do beginner's because F2L is almost impossible to get my mind around it with the non-matching colours. I use this order:
- put two adjacent cross edges
- put the corner and then the edge in the middle of those edges.
- put next edge and f2l pair like above until f2l is complete
- orient edges with F sexy F' and derivatives
- permute edges with sune
- permute corners with some Niklas variation
- orient corners with beginner's method


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## earth2dan (Jun 2, 2016)

muchacho said:


> How is it done? it doesn't look easy :confused:


I guess there's several ways you could approach it. I use regular old CFOP. It's a bit of a mind bender when you're so used to your colour scheme, but it's pretty fun.
- pick any face on the scrambled cube and make a cross to match
- match up each F2L pair and insert them one at a time
- map out where my "top" layer stickers are for my OLL pattern and execute the appropriate OLL alg. If it's one I don't know I do 2-look.
- permute corners with J/T/Y/A
- permute edges with U/Z/H


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## Rastinha (Jun 3, 2016)

Hi everyone, long time no see again! I am the best at showing up for a few weeks and then disappearing for a few months. Sorry! I often read even if I don't get around to posting.

I read through a ton of pages on this thread though to get here  So cool to see you are all progressing heaps and hello to the people that have come along since I was last here.

I still don't get tons of time to cube, maybe an hour or two per week, maybe double that on a good week. But I have bought a range of new puzzles and learned them all (so my 3x3 time is still not that great!) including 4x4, 5x5, skewb and I just got a Mega but haven't learnt the last layer yet. 

But, I DID enter my first competition 2 weeks ago - Wellington Autumn 2016 here in NZ, so that's pretty cool. I finally have a WCA ID (2016TAYL04) and some official PBs. I decided to get as much flight time as possible an entered 2x2, 3x4, 4x4, pyraminx and... 3BLD. I only really started learning BLD a few weeks or so before the competition (I learnt the lettering scheme at the end of last year but then got new puzzles for xmas and left blind alone until recently), so I went into the competition just wanting a success, since very few people enter BLD here in NZ.

So here is a video with my best solves for each one:





And my results:



Spoiler: Full results



Rubik's Cube
Second *19* 24.04 27.87 | 28.07 25.84 30.56 24.04 29.70
First 26 28.89 35.97 | 33.65 28.89 31.07 43.18 51.43

4x4 Cube
First *12* 2:08.51 2:22.41 | 2:15.30 2:10.37 2:56.94 2:41.56 2:08.51

2x2 Cube
First *21* 4.90 10.93 | 4.90 9.52 9.08 23.22 14.19

Rubik's Cube: Blindfolded
Final *2* 7:11.28 DNF | 8:12.58 DNF 7:11.28

Pyraminx
First *15* 19.84 25.02 | 22.86 19.84 21.64 30.56 33.25



All in all, I was totally worried about being nervous so I was aiming for sub-40 for 3x3, sub-15 for 2x2, sub-3:00 for 4x4, didn't care about pyra and wanted a BLD success. And I WAS really nervous in the first 3x3 round, so I messed up and got 36 second average, but I had a lot more experience under my belt by the second round and did much better.

Overall pretty happy with the results, and next comp I will be aiming for a much faster BLD time


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## Jason Green (Jun 3, 2016)

Good job @Rastinha, you blew away my 2x2 pb.


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## Rastinha (Jun 3, 2016)

It was such an easy scramble, you'll see in the video that I didn't expect it to be finished already so it could have easily been like a 3.xx, lol, but happy to have that one on record 

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk


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## Jason Green (Jun 3, 2016)

Rastinha said:


> It was such an easy scramble, you'll see in the video that I didn't expect it to be finished already so it could have easily been like a 3.xx, lol, but happy to have that one on record
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk


Nice edit BTW, I really like the way you did the timer.


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## Rastinha (Jun 3, 2016)

Haha, thanks . I had to because I forgot to point the camera at the timer at the end for any of the solves, lol

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk


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## newtonbase (Jun 3, 2016)

Rastinha said:


> Hi everyone, long time no see again! I am the best at showing up for a few weeks and then disappearing for a few months. Sorry! I often read even if I don't get around to posting.
> 
> I read through a ton of pages on this thread though to get here  So cool to see you are all progressing heaps and hello to the people that have come along since I was last here.
> 
> ...


Great video. Congratulations on your results, especially the success on your 1st 3BLD attempt.


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## muchacho (Jun 3, 2016)

Good times, congrats! A BLD success is awesome.


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## Rastinha (Jun 3, 2016)

It also makes me the number 1 ranked female in Oceania for 3bld, lol. But that's pretty much the best way to be top at something... pick something really obscure that nobody does, or combine weird things. It's like me being the number one handstand opera singer or something, lol 

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk


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## MarcelP (Jun 3, 2016)

So most of you now have the GTS I guess. I have been using it ever since I got it. I needed a lot of adjustment in my solves. I started to go way faster in TPS resulting in really bad times because lookahead was completely gone. But it is nice to see that without lookahead I can get 21 averages just by turning as fast as I can  

I have slowed down a lot and overlubed my GTS-ses and now times are quite allright again. Low 19 averages.. I have a lot of 13 and 14's now.. Without the GTS I did not have these. I guess these are pure because the cube performs very good. On the other hand I get many sup 23's. I think that's because I think GTS is still hard to handle sometimes.. 

I just did these.. which come very close to a PB if it was not for that freaking 23.. LOL..

25. 14.32 B L U2 B U R' U D' R2 L' F' R2 B' R2 D2 L2 D2 F B' U2 F'
26. 23.58 D2 L2 D2 B2 L2 U' L2 U' B2 F2 R2 L F2 D L D' L2 F U2 F U
27. 18.40 R2 D L2 B2 U R2 D2 R2 F2 U2 F' U' L' F2 R' D2 U2 B F U
28. 14.80 R' F2 U2 R2 U2 R B2 R U2 L' U B F' D U' F2 L' R2 D' F'
29. 15.60 U B2 R2 U' F2 L2 D' F2 U L2 D' F' D F2 L B D2 R' U' L' U2 
(Ao30 19.23 btw)


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## Jason Green (Jun 3, 2016)

I don't have it yet Marcel. Maybe soon.


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## MarcelP (Jun 3, 2016)

Logiqx said:


> Finally got my new cubes!
> 
> I decided to do an unboxing for you guys but it was cut short by a pizza delivery. hehe


LOL, great! I am curious how you feel about GTS vs Gans now? I also had Gans Stuff in my GTS order from The Cubicle.. Never touched a Gans after the unboxing though..


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## MarcelP (Jun 3, 2016)

Jason Green said:


> I don't have it yet Marcel. Maybe soon.


But you did order it?


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## Jason Green (Jun 3, 2016)

MarcelP said:


> But you did order it?


Not yet.  I'm not sure why really...


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## mark49152 (Jun 3, 2016)

I don't have the GTS either


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## MarcelP (Jun 3, 2016)

Jason Green said:


> Not yet.  I'm not sure why really...





mark49152 said:


> I don't have the GTS either



You guys have nerves of steel.. I can't wait when there is a new decent cube in the shops


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## Rastinha (Jun 3, 2016)

I got a GTS last Saturday, and I like how it kinda of feels like a cross between the yuexiao and my main the aolong. Although I use an aolong mini thanks to my child like hands, and have yet to find a full size cube that works as a main for me for that reason.

I like the GTS though, I think I will try tightening it a touch so I can control it better and then I just need to work on look ahead because as everyone's said it turns fast! Then I can see if I can get comparable times.

Now I finally own like 7 3x3s so I can work on multi blind too 



Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk


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## h2f (Jun 3, 2016)

Rastinha said:


> Hi everyone, long time no see again! I am the best at showing up for a few weeks and then disappearing for a few months. Sorry! I often read even if I don't get around to posting.
> 
> I read through a ton of pages on this thread though to get here  So cool to see you are all progressing heaps and hello to the people that have come along since I was last here.
> 
> ...



Awsome results. It took me half year of practice to get 3bld success on comp. Congrats.


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## mafergut (Jun 3, 2016)

@Rastinha, I'm impressed. After just a few weeks of learning 3BLD you go to your first comp and have 2 out of 3 successes and a 7:11.xx solve!!! I feel so dumb 

By the way, no GTS here either. And I'm also not ordering the new Yuxin 6x6 yet so, yeah, nerves of steel


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## newtonbase (Jun 3, 2016)

Took me 13 months and 4 comps to go from first solve at home to first official solve. I'd have liked to have seen your reaction to the first one @Rastinha


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## Rastinha (Jun 3, 2016)

I think I have that on video too, it might have been really underwhelming because I was trying to be quiet for the others and wasn't sure what I was allowed to do, lol. I'll try to find it when I get home, haha 

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk


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## newtonbase (Jun 3, 2016)

Rastinha said:


> I think I have that on video too, it might have been really underwhelming because I was trying to be quiet for the others and wasn't sure what I was allowed to do, lol. I'll try to find it when I get home, haha
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk


Mine was pretty muted too as it was such a relief. My profile pic is my reaction to missing it by by forgetting to flip edges at the previous comp.


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## earth2dan (Jun 3, 2016)

MarcelP said:


> You guys have nerves of steel.. I can't wait when there is a new decent cube in the shops


Haha, I have nerves of... not steel. I have a GTS on the way, and I just ordered the new Yuxin 6x6, 4x4, and a Gans 356 master


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## h2f (Jun 3, 2016)

First sub-25 ao100 (24.83). I'm exhausted because I was trying to stay focused all the time and plan as far as I can see. I knew that only under this condition I can do it today. New AO5 in the solves (21.50).


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## JanW (Jun 3, 2016)

My first thought of the GTS was that it is out of my league. Extremely fast and difficult for me to control. The YueXiao, which came in the same shipment, is the opposite. Or it is also fast, but it's somehow super stable and I feel like I'm completely in charge of everything I'm doing. However, when I did some test solves, my times on both cubes were pretty similar. There was some occasional slips with the GTS during F2L that cost some time, but the super fast last layer made up for this.

With the GTS, it is the first time ever that I feel like a real speed cuber, when I see my fingers blast through those last layer algs.



Rastinha said:


> Now I finally own like 7 3x3s so I can work on multi blind too


I was wondering about this, if you do MBLD in comp, does all the cubes have to be the same model, or can you show up with an assortment of different cubes?


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## mark49152 (Jun 3, 2016)

JanW said:


> I was wondering about this, if you do MBLD in comp, does all the cubes have to be the same model, or can you show up with an assortment of different cubes?


They can be an assortment.


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## JanW (Jun 3, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> They can be an assortment.


Cool! So even a mix of stickered and stickerless?

In that case I already have everything I need to go do a 16 MBLD.  Except the skill...


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## Logiqx (Jun 3, 2016)

MarcelP said:


> LOL, great! I am curious how you feel about GTS vs Gans now? I also had Gans Stuff in my GTS order from The Cubicle.. Never touched a Gans after the unboxing though..


I've not done much 3x3 since the unboxing. I did entirely 4x4 while commuting yesterday. My new 4x4 seemed quiet enough to use in company. 

The Weilong GTS is fantastic. It has a nice light / effortless feel when turning and super fast. I've only used it for untimed solves but I think it will be my new main. It feels fantastic for OH so I may have the same cube for both events. The new Gans is likely to be my new commuting cube as it retains the quietness of the V1. That being said the Weilong GTS is also relatively quiet.

I'll break them both in and report back next week!

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk


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## JanW (Jun 3, 2016)

I did race sub-30 with ZZ on the Aolong v2 I got yesterday. 12 warmup solves before the race averaged at 33s and I was expecting something similar. Instead I set new single, Ao5 and Ao12 pbs: 21.16/26.08/29.65. That puts a lot of pressure on me to keep it up next week...

Anyway, safe to say that the Aolong v2 is also an awesome cube! I have a bit of a problem now, with a new Aolong v2, YueXiao and GTS (and a Thunderclap that I don't like that much so far). Can't tell which one I should use. So I will use them all. Maybe once I have a few hundred solves on each I can tell which I prefer the most.

Next week I'm going abroad, I should choose a cube to bring with me on the flight. If I dare pull it out. That would be the first time I cube in public.


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## phreaker (Jun 3, 2016)

JanW said:


> I did race sub-30 with ZZ on the Aolong v2 I got yesterday. 12 warmup solves before the race averaged at 33s and I was expecting something similar. Instead I set new single, Ao5 and Ao12 pbs: 21.16/26.08/29.65. That puts a lot of pressure on me to keep it up next week...
> 
> Anyway, safe to say that the Aolong v2 is also an awesome cube! I have a bit of a problem now, with a new Aolong v2, YueXiao and GTS (and a Thunderclap that I don't like that much so far). Can't tell which one I should use. So I will use them all. Maybe once I have a few hundred solves on each I can tell which I prefer the most.
> 
> Next week I'm going abroad, I should choose a cube to bring with me on the flight. If I dare pull it out. That would be the first time I cube in public.



Ah the problem of having too many good cubes . Such a horrible problem.

As far as cubing in public, nobody seems to mind if adults cube in public, as far as I can tell. I've had people comment on it, but really... It's another way to pass the time, everyone understands in a way.

As far as what cubes to bring... am I the only one who has a little pouch he just fills with whatever cubes he feels like using? Often 2-3 3x3's a 4x4 and maybe a skewb?  At least that's what I took with me last time. I'd probably bring a Sq 1 next time.


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## newtonbase (Jun 3, 2016)

JanW said:


> Next week I'm going abroad, I should choose a cube to bring with me on the flight. If I dare pull it out. That would be the first time I cube in public.


Cubing is the perfect pastime for flying. No batteries to run out. No WiFi to turn off. You sit in an almost ideal position the whole time. Just make sure you choose a quiet cube.


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## Shaky Hands (Jun 3, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> Cubing is the perfect pastime for flying. No batteries to run out. No WiFi to turn off. You sit in an almost ideal position the whole time. Just make sure you choose a quiet cube.



Plus some flights come with a free blindfold.


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## newtonbase (Jun 3, 2016)

Shaky Hands said:


> Plus some flights come with a free blindfold.


Yes. I've seen @mark49152 use them!


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## Rastinha (Jun 3, 2016)

Yeah I attribute a good chunk of my blind success to the fact that I bussed down to wellington so I probably got 5 hours of practice, mainly blind but a bit of the others too, in that time.

I also did a few practice blind solves in my friends living room while a bunch of my friends were jamming some samba music and singing songs that I know, lol, and I got one with just 2 pieces in place but flipped, so I thought if I can almost do it with all of that going on around me then I should be OK with quiet and earplugs lol, was like weight training.

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk


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## Jason Green (Jun 3, 2016)

Planes are pretty noisy anyway. I cubed on my flight to KC a while back with the Yuexiao which is a little noisy, but it was fine. I'm a little reluctant to do it in public at times, but I wasn't since I was going to comp.


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## JanW (Jun 3, 2016)

Yes, definitely should bring a quiet cube. The YueXiao and GTS are the most quiet of the cubes I got. I won't mind spending a week with only those two. 

If I cube on the plane, it is likely to be blind practice. It's been a while since I did that, about time to refresh my memory.


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## mark49152 (Jun 4, 2016)

Does anyone here always listen to music while cubing? Or never? I never usually do, but tonight I put some music on and wiped a second off my 4x4 ao50. Perhaps that's where I've been going wrong...


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## Jason Green (Jun 4, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> Does anyone here always listen to music while cubing? Or never? I never usually do, but tonight I put some music on and wiped a second off my 4x4 ao50. Perhaps that's where I've been going wrong...


Never for me, maybe I should?


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## Shaky Hands (Jun 4, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> Does anyone here always listen to music while cubing? Or never? I never usually do, but tonight I put some music on and wiped a second off my 4x4 ao50. Perhaps that's where I've been going wrong...



Not when I'm doing timed solves. I find it too distracting when trying to plan a cross.


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## One Wheel (Jun 4, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> Does anyone here always listen to music while cubing? Or never? I never usually do, but tonight I put some music on and wiped a second off my 4x4 ao50. Perhaps that's where I've been going wrong...



I used to, then I did a few solves without music and dropped my 4x4 time from about 2:30 to 2:20, or maybe even more than that. I've tried with and without since, and it's always slower with music.


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## earth2dan (Jun 4, 2016)

JanW said:


> Yes, definitely should bring a quiet cube. The YueXiao and GTS are the most quiet of the cubes I got. I won't mind spending a week with only those two.


A lubed and broken in Gans 356 is by far the quietest cube in my 3x3 collection, there isn't even a close second. It's my office 3x3 because it's the least distracting to my coworkers. I recently ordered the Gans 356 Master so I have a second "quiet" cube (hopefully it's as quiet as the original).



mark49152 said:


> Does anyone here always listen to music while cubing? Or never? I never usually do, but tonight I put some music on and wiped a second off my 4x4 ao50. Perhaps that's where I've been going wrong...


I sometimes do, when I can get away with it. I'm not sure if it makes a difference to my times, but I certainly enjoy it (and that's really what this is all about isn't it?  ). Though I don't like cubing with headphones on, I prefer to have it playing on the stereo.


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## Jason Green (Jun 4, 2016)

My post from the airport going to KC. 

https://www.instagram.com/p/BEOs7Aat2by/


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## mafergut (Jun 4, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> Does anyone here always listen to music while cubing? Or never? I never usually do, but tonight I put some music on and wiped a second off my 4x4 ao50. Perhaps that's where I've been going wrong...


Nope. I never listen to music while solving. I'm a "one task at a time" kind of guy

Sent from my Nexus 4 with Tapatalk


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## moralsh (Jun 4, 2016)

Almost a week later, at last some time to comment on my last comp, let's do it:

2x2x2: I don't really care, I always think about buying a decent cube and practice sometime but always get to comps without touching the cube since the previous comp.
4x4x4: a strange round, first 1:24 had no parities but was slow, 2:20 had a big pop or small explosion, 1:17 OLL parity, 1:21 PLL parity an 1:28 both. I could have done better
5x5x5: had it right after trying multi and wasn't very focused, first 3 happened while debating with a kid about pops, asked him to end the conversation after the solve.
6x6x6: Really happy about the sub 6 mean, the 5:29 had double parity, it makes me think sub 5 might be possible for me
7x7x7: Really nice 7:20 single and then a lesson on how to screw up already done centers on the other 2 solves 
Skewb: Had a Face, then skip to a U-Perm and then realized I didn't remember how to perform it, didn't care enough to do the second solve.
Pyraminx: A little bit more of alg amnesia, I should practice
3x3x3: twisted corner on the DNF of the first round, +2 on the second and little to none lookahead on the remaining solves of both rounds except the 15, which was full step again (fat sune + A)
OH: I've been averaging sub 35 at home, not very happy with a 39
Megaminx: Very happy with both the single (3:23) and the mean (3:43), will probably practice a fair bit this summer.
3BLD: broke my 2 ok 1 DNF streak on the first round with 2 1:5x DNFs, Was a bit slow on the final.
4BLD: 3 11:xx DNFs while trying to go slow but accurate, I managed ok the slow part but not the accurate 
MultiBLD: 4/7 with a lot of planning errors, reviewed too much, didn't execute 5th and 6th cube before the block of four and had a lot of problems recalling them and I executed the 6th cube on an already DNFd 7th cube. The block of 4 was OK, the rest not.
5BLD: I uploaded the full video for your delight in watching me beeing slow at memo and slow at exec.

... But successful this time 





Edit: The automatic selected image for the video is hilarious!
Edit2: Forgot mega


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## Rastinha (Jun 4, 2016)

Nice! I am always so impressed by bigger cube BLD, I guess because I only know M2/OP and don't understand commutators yet, so I don't get how it works, haha.



newtonbase said:


> Took me 13 months and 4 comps to go from first solve at home to first official solve. I'd have liked to have seen your reaction to the first one @Rastinha



Here's my reaction, you can't really tell but I was so damn nervous I could barely hold the cube in this one. So the reaction is mostly relief, haha. About 20 seconds after this a little 8 year old girl who was the only other female in the competition comes up and congratulates me. Her dad was the one who told me before I competed that if I got a success I'd be the first female in oceania, haha, no pressure. But at least they were rooting for me 

I just included the reaction, not the whole solve, it looked a lot like my other success just 1 minute longer and a bit more jittery


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## mark49152 (Jun 4, 2016)

@moralsh , nice results, I didn't know you were so fast at 6x6. Did you focus your practice on that? Congrats again on the awesome 5BLD. 



Rastinha said:


> Nice! I am always so impressed by bigger cube BLD, I guess because I only know M2/OP and don't understand commutators yet, so I don't get how it works, haha.


Give it a go, it's fun. No commutators needed. OP for corners, r2 for wings (similar to M2) and U2 for centers (similar principle to M2).


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## h2f (Jun 4, 2016)

Very nice @moralsh.


Rastinha said:


> Nice! I am always so impressed by bigger cube BLD, I guess because I only know M2/OP and don't understand commutators yet, so I don't get how it works, haha.



You dont need comms to solve big cubes blindfolded. Just M2 method which changes to r2 and U2 for centers. OP is enough for corners. 

Very calm reaction....


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## Rastinha (Jun 4, 2016)

Oh right, see that's how much I know about bigger BLD lol, in other words, nothing  How does the lettering scheme work? I know, I know, lmgtfy.com, but sometimes it's good to get a brief rundown from people who know what they're talking about rather than try to sift through the entire internet


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## mark49152 (Jun 4, 2016)

Rastinha said:


> How does the lettering scheme work?


The same. For wings you only ever look at one sticker of each wing, so the lettering is the same as for 3BLD but you have about twice as many targets. For example, assuming Speffz, the front right edge in 3BLD has stickers J and P. Depending on the solve, you would solve either J or P because they are attached to the same piece. In 4BLD you must solve both J and P because they are different pieces. J is the FRd sticker, P is the RFu sticker.

Centres are also easy. Each uses the letter of its closest corner sticker. So the Ufr centre is C, etc.


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## h2f (Jun 4, 2016)

Rastinha said:


> Oh right, see that's how much I know about bigger BLD lol, in other words, nothing  How does the lettering scheme work? I know, I know, lmgtfy.com, but sometimes it's good to get a brief rundown from people who know what they're talking about rather than try to sift through the entire internet



Read what Mark wrote and watch this:


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## moralsh (Jun 4, 2016)

and in even bigger blinds is also similar, you just add different kind of pieces:

You have edges and corners in 3BLD
wings, centres and corners in 4BLD
wings, corners, x centres (same as 4BLD), + centres and midges (same as 3BLD edges) in 5BLD
corners 2 sets of wings (outer and inner), 2 sets of x centres (outer and inner) and 2 sets of obliques centres in 6BLD
corners, 2 sets of wings, midges,2 sets of +centres, 2 sets of x centres and 2 sets of obliques in 7BLD

and so on.

Each set consists in less than 24 different targets so you can add a lettering scheme to all of them. Learning how to do them is not hard. The hard part is getting locating pieces and getting used to execution. Also that you need 100% accuracy.

@mark49152 I did try to solve 1 or 2 6x6 a day for the 2 weeks prior to the comp, first week I was around 6:30 almost everyday, but second week started paying off.

@Rastinha feels nice, doesn't it? at my first comp I had 2 DNF by a twisted edge and the buffer in around 10 minutes each, second comp brought me first success and sub 3, keep at it and you'll see how easy is to improve.


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## phreaker (Jun 4, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> Yes. I've seen @mark49152 use them!



If they don't smell.. some of them smell AWFUL. Though I will admit I carry a blindfold with me, it is for sleep not BLD. Haven't learned BLD yet .


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## newtonbase (Jun 4, 2016)

I do product reviews on Amazon so get a lot of heavily discounted stuff. I get blindfolds whenever possible for sleep and for 3BLD. There are some really nice contoured ones that block out almost all light and they often come with ear plugs. 
Saying that, when I practice I tend to just look away.


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## newtonbase (Jun 4, 2016)

Macclesfield Open is 30-31 July. Anyone interested? @mark49152?


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## mark49152 (Jun 4, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> Macclesfield Open is 30-31 July. Anyone interested? @mark49152?


Of course . It's only 1h20 from me, probably won't even need to stay over.


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## newtonbase (Jun 4, 2016)

I could stay in Salford or Southport easily. Maybe much closer if my wife comes as we have friends local to it.


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## Logiqx (Jun 4, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> Macclesfield Open is 30-31 July. Anyone interested? @mark49152?



I'd like to attend but I have other commitments that weekend.

I did a dozen 6x6 solves today and I'm really enjoying the AoShi. I'm pretty slow right now (8:36 single, 9:31 Ao5) but I feel like I'm starting to get the hang of it. I also did a couple of 7x7 solves and both were 16:xx. I think I'll start to practice these events so it will be interesting to try the new YuXin cubes.


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## mafergut (Jun 4, 2016)

Logiqx said:


> I'd like to attend but I have other commitments that weekend.
> 
> I did a dozen 6x6 solves today and I'm really enjoying the AoShi. I'm pretty slow right now (8:36 single, 9:31 Ao5) but I feel like I'm starting to get the hang of it. I also did a couple of 7x7 solves and both were 16:xx. I think I'll start to practice these events so it will be interesting to try the new YuXin cubes.


That sounds more or less like the times I expect to get when I buy a 6x6, probably I'll be a bit slower at the beginning. I just did like a couple untimed solves with my AoFu GT and 3 timed ones with a best time of 20:xx  Since then I went back to 4x4, now 5x5, still 1 min to shave off of 5x5 until I get to 6x6. Maybe it's time to get that Yuxin 6x6 as Lightake will probably take a month to ship it


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## moralsh (Jun 4, 2016)

I'll try some solves tomorrow to know where my splits are, maybe it can help you guys.


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## Jason Green (Jun 4, 2016)

After getting the sub 22 ao100 last weekend and discussing that it was not on stackmat, it made me want to do another. I thought of doing it during the week, but my week day practice is much sloppier and I'm more tired, even if I do a couple hours. So I did a session today and it confirmed what I suspected, stackmat is basically a wash for me. I actually did better than last week, and set new PBs for ao5, 12, and 100. Of course I'm a one week more experienced cuber now.  I think the big thing is just my posture and focus that make up for the pickup time with the mat. The stopping time I think I'm just as fast as with a space bar.

I streamed the first 30 minutes on FB which makes me nervous too, part of why I like to because I think it's good practice for comps. I also caught a cam PB of 16.42.  I'll upload that when I edit it.

Edit: Here's the PB





If you want to watch the whole stream (pretty boring)




__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10156996594005425


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## Rastinha (Jun 5, 2016)

So I got a skewb last weekend and learned to solve it on Monday because we had friends staying the weekend. I learned Sarah's method and was getting around 25-30s ish with the occasional 40 something and more occasional around 20s one, with one sub 20 fluke at 18.xx.

Then I left it alone for a couple of days and picked it up when I first woke up this morning and did an ao12, and for some reason I was really good at skewb, lol:







My previous best ao5 was something like 23.xx and ao12 26.xx, so I shaved like 8-9 seconds of each of those and 10 seconds off my single. Now I don't want to try it again in case I'm back to being rubbish, lol.

Weird! Especially since I had just woken up. Funny brain.

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk


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## Jason Green (Jun 5, 2016)

Brains are hilarious! I've solved skewb a handful of times, never timed it though.


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## Shaky Hands (Jun 5, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> Macclesfield Open is 30-31 July. Anyone interested? @mark49152?



Very much so. Will check with work as it may require a rota change.



Logiqx said:


> I did a dozen 6x6 solves today and I'm really enjoying the AoShi. I'm pretty slow right now (8:36 single, 9:31 Ao5) but I feel like I'm starting to get the hang of it. I also did a couple of 7x7 solves and both were 16:xx. I think I'll start to practice these events so it will be interesting to try the new YuXin cubes.



My current Ao5 for these are 7:52 and 11:25 respectively. I'm sure that with your 3x3 skills relative to mine, you'll be able to better that in short order. I do enjoy both and the Weekly Competition has been a big motivator for me picking these up. Have fun!


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## chtiger (Jun 5, 2016)

Haven't posted here in a while, but I at least try to check in on the weekend to see how everybody is doing at comps (and at home). Congrats Raul on official 5BLD success!

Here's some more official old person results for the others who like to follow the oldies at comps.
http://cubecomps.com/live.php?cid=1554&compid=14

Very pleased to get a sub 20 3x3 single and an average that's even good for at home. I almost missed out. I had already walked out the door to go home after the first round of my events, and decided I should go back and make sure that I didn't advance to the 2nd round. They let 75% thru to second round, so I made 3x3 and 2x2. They also let 75% thru to finals, so I even made 3x3 finals (and missed 2x2 by .02 seconds), but I didn't find that out til I got home. It never crossed my mind that I might have made final round.
2x2 was a tad worse than my goal (7.50), but close enough to be satisfied.
Pyraminx wasn't good, but not too bad, and wasn't expecting much for first time in comp.
3BLD was horrible.

Clock and 4Bld tomorrow.
Clock goal is sub 11.80 avg. Would love to get sub 11 avg and sub 10 single. Two rounds(!) to get it (assuming I don't totally screw up the first round)
4Bld goal is any success, preferably sub 20, more preferably sub 17. Have a current at home streak of 6 successes (best is 13:18), but I have a way harder time with BLD at comps.


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## h2f (Jun 5, 2016)

Nice results. Congrts Chad!


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## newtonbase (Jun 5, 2016)

chtiger said:


> Haven't posted here in a while, but I at least try to check in on the weekend to see how everybody is doing at comps (and at home). Congrats Raul on official 5BLD success!
> 
> Here's some more official old person results for the others who like to follow the oldies at comps.
> http://cubecomps.com/live.php?cid=1554&compid=14
> ...


Well done @chtiger. Good luck today.


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## moralsh (Jun 5, 2016)

Yeah, best of lucks, gogogo 4Bld!


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## mark49152 (Jun 5, 2016)

PB 4x4 ao5: 1:01.87 without a sub-1. 1:02.18, 1:02.13, (1:23.00), (1:00.13), 1:01.30. No music this time .

Oh and good look @chtiger with the 4BLD!


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## mafergut (Jun 5, 2016)

It looks like one cannot get a bit of practice without the thread going on and on 
Congratulations to everyone who posted BLD successes, PBs, on cam PBs, etc.
I tried to record a good average with no luck. The best I got was a 17.74 Ao5 and then a 14.69 full step... DNF (two faces turned by accident when finishing a G-perm) and then another stupid 14.69 PLL skip that should have been a 10-11 sec solve with all F2L pairs coming at me already paired shouting please insert me!!!
I can post a video if anyone is interested in having a good laugh


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## Jason Green (Jun 5, 2016)

mafergut said:


> It looks like one cannot get a bit of practice without the thread going on and on
> Congratulations to everyone who posted BLD successes, PBs, on cam PBs, etc.
> I tried to record a good average with no luck. The best I got was a 17.74 Ao5 and then a 14.69 full step... DNF (two faces turned by accident when finishing a G-perm) and then another stupid 14.69 PLL skip that should have been a 10-11 sec solve with all F2L pairs coming at me already paired shouting please insert me!!!
> I can post a video if anyone is interested in having a good laugh


Yes please, I'm sad when I catch up on my YouTube subscriptions.


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## mafergut (Jun 5, 2016)

Jason Green said:


> Yes please, I'm sad when I catch up on my YouTube subscriptions.


Here it is. Have fun!!!


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## muchacho (Jun 5, 2016)

Nice average, and I love the extra content 

I don't want to forget anyone so congrats to everyone who deserves to be congratulated in the past 3 days


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## h2f (Jun 5, 2016)

mafergut said:


> Here it is. Have fun!!!



Very nice.


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## mafergut (Jun 5, 2016)

muchacho said:


> Nice average, and I love the extra content





h2f said:


> Very nice.



Thank you guys but not really nice, if you think that at least two or three of the solves should have been significantly faster but I will take it anyway. Probably my on cam PB Ao5. The solve after the average was a 23.xx so no chance to roll the 20.xx  And I still have so many pauses and PLL recog errors that I even wonder how I can sub-20 at all. The 14.69 PLL skip is also on cam PB single but I cannot be proud of the solve, to be honest.


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## muchacho (Jun 5, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> Does anyone here always listen to music while cubing? Or never? I never usually do, but tonight I put some music on and wiped a second off my 4x4 ao50. Perhaps that's where I've been going wrong...


Never when cubing, but I listen to music a lot, so usually when I'm cubing I leave the headphones on


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## chtiger (Jun 6, 2016)

day 2 results -- http://cubecomps.com/live.php?cid=1554&compid=14

got a sub-10 clock single, messed up too much to get my avg goal, but came sorta close 2nd rd
rd 1 -- 16.06, DNF, 11.60, 9.94, 13.41 = 13.69 
rd 2 -- 12.54, 11.81, DNF, 11.90, 11.30 = 12.08 

4BLD -- DNF x 3. First attempt memo went well and solve felt good until I couldn't remember the last 3 edges. Spent at least 3 minutes thinking. So that was probably the edges that were wrong, but also had a few centers wrong. 2nd attempt couldn't memo edges and quit. 3rd attempt took forever to memo, then messed up and quit midsolve.

Considering buying headphones for BLD. Any other BLDers gone from no headphones to headphones and noticed an immediate improvement?


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## h2f (Jun 6, 2016)

mafergut said:


> Thank you guys but not really nice, if you think that at least two or three of the solves should have been significantly faster but I will take it anyway. Probably my on cam PB Ao5. The solve after the average was a 23.xx so no chance to roll the 20.xx  And I still have so many pauses and PLL recog errors that I even wonder how I can sub-20 at all. The 14.69 PLL skip is also on cam PB single but I cannot be proud of the solve, to be honest.



I like extra stuff. For me your solves look decent. Just keep doing and you will break sub20 ao100. I think the bad pauses etc. are the part of the solve even if it's a pb. When I look at my pbs - both CFOP and Roux I find every time things to make them better: pauses, bad look ahead, too long recognition of OLL or CMLL etc.


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## mark49152 (Jun 6, 2016)

chtiger said:


> Considering buying headphones for BLD. Any other BLDers gone from no headphones to headphones and noticed an immediate improvement?


Commiserations on the 4BLD. Maybe next time. It's the hardest event in my opinion (except 5BLD of course) because it's a lot of concentration and execution and it's completely unforgiving of any error. Just the smallest slip and it's all over. At least in MBLD it's not all or nothing.

I do use bins and think they help. They don't block out all noise but they muffle it enough that it feels like I'm in a world of my own, like an isolating effect. I can't say they'd give an immediate improvement but they're worth a try.

In other news I had a phone accident yesterday and lost about a week of solve data, which was a bit upsetting because there were some PBs in there, including my recent 4x4 PB averages. I must remember to do backups regularly and after each PB average.


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## moralsh (Jun 6, 2016)

chtiger said:


> day 2 results -- http://cubecomps.com/live.php?cid=1554&compid=14
> 
> Considering buying headphones for BLD. Any other BLDers gone from no headphones to headphones and noticed an immediate improvement?



I definitely memo faster with noise reduction, it helps me focus on the blindsolve both while putting them on and while memoing. I don't use them at home, though.

@mafergut, nice average, don't be so hard on yourself!


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## Shaky Hands (Jun 6, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> Macclesfield Open is 30-31 July. Anyone interested? @mark49152?



Have checked with work and will be able to go. Hopefully see you and Mark up there.

@Selkie, registration is *tonight *if you haven't seen this yet and are interested.


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## h2f (Jun 6, 2016)

I've started to practice OH Roux few days ago, after all these talks about OH solving. Here are few of my solves. I've found OH Roux easier than I thought. M moves are hard at the beginning but when you used to it's easy. I wont change my CMLL's - they seem to me quite good to OH too. My ao100 is now around 55 seconds but often due to relearning CMLL's to OH.


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## mafergut (Jun 6, 2016)

h2f said:


> I've started to practice OH Roux few days ago, after all these talks about OH solving. Here are few of my solves. I've found OH Roux easier than I thought. [...]


Wow! You progress fast. Already sub-40 solves OH with Roux! Congratulations.

My only highlight of the weekend apart from the video I posted yesterday has been a new PB single and Ao5 at 5x5. I'm so slow that it's easy to improve. It was done with the weekly comp scrambles. Still long way to go to sub 3:00, which is what I'm aiming for as compared with sub 1:30 4x4. (3:26.xx single & 3:48.xx Ao5 that I later improved to 3:41.xx).


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## h2f (Jun 6, 2016)

mafergut said:


> Wow! You progress fast. Already sub-40 solves OH with Roux! Congratulations.



I think this is the advantage of Roux. 40 stm with 1 TPS give you 40 sec solve. If the scramble has an easy FB - like in cases from video - or skip, you are sub-40.  And with CFOP I was sub50 OH with 24.xx pb.


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## mafergut (Jun 6, 2016)

h2f said:


> I think this is the advantage of Roux. 40 stm with 1 TPS give you 40 sec solve. If the scramble has an easy FB - like in cases from video - or skip, you are sub-40.  And with CFOP I was sub50 OH with 24.xx pb.


Wow! My PB Ao100 at CFOP OH is 44,62 but I have become a tad slower now because of lack of practice. My PB single was just 29.51 but full step. I have never had the luck of putting together a good solve and a skip. That 24.xx is pretty dang good, though! Anyway, what you say about low movecount in Roux makes a lot of sense. Of course I never learned CMLL and only practiced Roux for like 2 weeks so my best times with 2H were around 40 seconds. You can beat me with your right hand tied behind your back... literally!  (not sure this will make sense in English, it's a direct translation of a saying in Spanish meaning that one person is clearly better at something than other so that they can beat you even with just one hand).


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## h2f (Jun 6, 2016)

mafergut said:


> You can beat me with your right hand tied behind your back... literally!  (not sure this will make sense in English, it's a direct translation of a saying in Spanish meaning that one person is clearly better at something than other so that they can beat you even with just one hand).



It's a clear translation.  In Poland we say - you can beat me with a finger in your nose. I think it's not so fast progress - I had a Roux OH practice sessions last year so I have some kind of practice in it. But I gave up after some time. And that solve (I mena 24.41) was just a luck, I dont remember how.


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## muchacho (Jun 6, 2016)

Wow really nice solves!

The right question is... how fast can you do it with your left hand tied behind your back? 

I've filmed (I should have done it from the left) a good solve (for me), it was 2-look, for OH I still don't use half of the CMLLs I know. Tell me how many weird things do you spot in that solve 

Solve starts at @0:19


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## One Wheel (Jun 6, 2016)

mafergut said:


> You can beat me with your right hand tied behind your back... literally!  (not sure this will make sense in English, it's a direct translation of a saying in Spanish meaning that one person is clearly better at something than other so that they can beat you even with just one hand).



The common idiom in American English is "one hand behind your back" without reference to right or left, but I'm rather fond of the one about a finger in your nose. It's a very vivid picture.


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## mark49152 (Jun 6, 2016)

One Wheel said:


> The common idiom in American English is "one hand behind your back" without reference to right or left, but I'm rather fond of the one about a finger in your nose. It's a very vivid picture.


Indeed, I now have a new image for letter pair FN.


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## JanW (Jun 6, 2016)

Nice @h2f! 

I've been trying to refresh my memory on blind solving the last couple of days. It seems I'm back at the 1 mistake/solve stage. No complete successes, but lots of solves with one mistake. Mostly memo mistakes, like missing a flipped edge, forgetting to twist corners or skipping a 3-cycle during execution. Good thing is that the execution part otherwise seems pretty good. Only twice have I opened my eyes to find the cube a complete mess, which is the result of execution errors.

The PLL algs I've learned help a lot. I've already used both J-perm and Y-perm for some parity cases. Now I should memorize which direction the A-perms move the corners. Those can come in handy for corner cycles. With UFR as my buffer, I also need to explore what else they are good for, for example the truncated version U R' D2 R U' R' D2 R is a pretty nice commutator I wouldn't have thought of otherwise.


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## h2f (Jun 6, 2016)

muchacho said:


> I've filmed (I should have done it from the left) a good solve (for me), it was 2-look, for OH I still don't use half of the CMLLs I know. Tell me how many weird things do you spot in that solve
> 
> Solve starts at @0:19



Non?  I like your turning style and LSE looks fine.


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## h2f (Jun 6, 2016)

JanW said:


> Nice @h2f!
> The PLL algs I've learned help a lot. I've already used both J-perm and Y-perm for some parity cases. Now I should memorize which direction the A-perms move the corners. Those can come in handy for corner cycles. With UFR as my buffer, I also need to explore what else they are good for, for example the truncated version U R' D2 R U' R' D2 R is a pretty nice commutator I wouldn't have thought of otherwise.



I dont know what A perm you use, but for me it was the eye opener when I realized that my A perm is just R2 seutp and comm with x rotation: UBL - DBR - DFR. This case a use a lot for down targets. So drill it and I'm sure you will find it to be very usefull. 

Have you tried redo scramble to see what was bad? I do this a lot for example to drill algs.


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## muchacho (Jun 6, 2016)

h2f said:


> Non?  I like your turning style and LSE looks fine.


Doing an L2 z2 to build the SB also on the left is probably questionable.


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## JanW (Jun 6, 2016)

h2f said:


> I dont know what A perm you use, but for me it was the eye opener when I realized that my A perm is just R2 seutp and comm with x rotation: UBL - DBR - DFR. This case a use a lot for down targets. So drill it and I'm sure you will find it to be very usefull.
> 
> Have you tried redo scramble to see what was bad? I do this a lot for example to drill algs.


I use l' U R' D2 R U' R' D2 R2 and x R2' D2 R U R' D2 R U' R for A perms. With UFR as my buffer, I can also use those without the x rotation and skipping the first and last move, like mentioned above, to cycle UFR-BDL-UBR in both directions. Interesting idea to use it for down targets. In my case, I'd have to do B2 instead of R2, which is not quite as convenient, but I'll keep it in mind.

Most of the time I've been able to figure out what went wrong, if it's only one mistake. If the cube ends up a complete mess, I suspect I would need to film my solves to see where the mistake(s) was made.


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## h2f (Jun 6, 2016)

muchacho said:


> Doing an L2 z2 to build the SB also on the left is probably questionable.



I dont think it's bad in OH. If it gives you easier moves, it's ok. I've started doing it too.


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## mafergut (Jun 6, 2016)

muchacho said:


> I've filmed (I should have done it from the left) a good solve (for me), it was 2-look, for OH I still don't use half of the CMLLs I know. Tell me how many weird things do you spot in that solve


Nice solve, David. The problem with OH amnesia is universal, I still don't use more than half my OLLs and the PLLs took an effort to be relearned for OH.

Today I recorded a 14.08 full step solve and... you know what? It was a +2


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## newtonbase (Jun 6, 2016)

Shaky Hands said:


> Have checked with work and will be able to go. Hopefully see you and Mark up there.
> 
> @Selkie, registration is *tonight *if you haven't seen this yet and are interested.


I've registered for more events than I plan to do but decisions can be made later. There's a baby due in the family that weekend so I may not be able to go at all but I'll practice as if I can.


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## Logiqx (Jun 6, 2016)

Shaky Hands said:


> My current Ao5 for these are 7:52 and 11:25 respectively. I'm sure that with your 3x3 skills relative to mine, you'll be able to better that in short order. I do enjoy both and the Weekly Competition has been a big motivator for me picking these up. Have fun!



6x6 times have been improving with half a dozen solves a day... currently 7:24 Ao5.

Edit: Guess I'll be ready for big cubes when I finally make it to a competition!


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## mark49152 (Jun 7, 2016)

Bit quiet today. Hope you're all still alive.

Here's a new game and challenge. 5x5 five move scramble. PB ao12 = 28.93.

(Rules: do the first five moves of a computer scramble, toss and spin it, no inspection.)


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## phreaker (Jun 7, 2016)

Alive yep. Actually gave a co-worker information about how to learn to cube.

My OH times are dropping.

My Weilong GTS needs to be relubed, it is so fast, I'm dropping it. It is also chewing on my thumb like a mad puppy, so between that and my left pinky bothering me a bit, I may be due a few days off to let my hand heal, maybe some 2H cubing once I fix up the GTS. 

Maybe order a second if my OH and 2H setup is different.


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## h2f (Jun 7, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> Bit quiet today. Hope you're all still alive.



 Yes. I'm in OH. I did a practice yesterday around midnight... I'm sub50 ao100 right now and finally beaten my previous ao12 pb by 0.36 sec. But still I have no ao5 sub40 (40.32) so far.


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## Shaky Hands (Jun 7, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> Bit quiet today. Hope you're all still alive.
> 
> Here's a new game and challenge. 5x5 five move scramble. PB ao12 = 28.93.
> 
> (Rules: do the first five moves of a computer scramble, toss and spin it, no inspection.)



Well that was an odd average:

3:40.99, 16.84, (5:00.48,) (12.19,) 20.05

Ao5: 1:25.96

Scrambles:
1. Dw2 Bw2 F Uw2 Bw2
2. B' D Uw' F2 Uw'
3. B2 F2 Dw2 Fw Dw'
4. D2 Uw U' L' Rw2
5. Uw' Rw2 R2 Fw2 D

Interesting though @mark49152, cheers for the idea.


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## Logiqx (Jun 7, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> Bit quiet today. Hope you're all still alive.
> 
> Here's a new game and challenge. 5x5 five move scramble. PB ao12 = 28.93.
> 
> (Rules: do the first five moves of a computer scramble, toss and spin it, no inspection.)



We should probably use the same scrambles since they make a big difference to the outcome. I had a cool 7 second solve, several 12's and some twenties but various screw ups taking several minutes. I didn't complete an Ao12 as I restarted after 2 fails and after 3 failed averages, I decided to get back to what I was supposed to be doing. Fun activity mind you.


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## newtonbase (Jun 7, 2016)

I meant to do 5 but lost track
29.27, 26.60, 24.23, 7.00.63! 19.71, 13.67


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## Rastinha (Jun 7, 2016)

That sounds like fun, I'll try it on one of my breaks today 

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk


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## chtiger (Jun 8, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> I do use bins and think they help. They don't block out all noise but they muffle it enough that it feels like I'm in a world of my own, like an isolating effect. I can't say they'd give an immediate improvement but they're worth a try.





moralsh said:


> I definitely memo faster with noise reduction, it helps me focus on the blindsolve both while putting them on and while memoing. I don't use them at home, though.



It sounds like headphones may be what I need. Maybe even if they aren't great, they will at least have a placebo effect and I'll feel more confident and focused just because I'm wearing them. Really want an official 4BLD success now, especially since I've been doing so well at home (with successes, time is still way behind you guys), and still need better official 3BLD and MBLD too.


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## Rastinha (Jun 8, 2016)

I used swimming ear plugs for my first comp, the putty kind that mould into your ears. I found they helped me concentrate since our BLD rounds were held during the lunch break and it was quite noisy. I don't train with them though, and headphones/ear muffs would probably be more convenient as if the seal on the putty comes away a little it can be distracting. But that's all I had at the time!

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk


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## mark49152 (Jun 8, 2016)

I bet this guy was glad he had bins.


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## Jason Green (Jun 8, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> Bit quiet today. Hope you're all still alive.
> 
> Here's a new game and challenge. 5x5 five move scramble. PB ao12 = 28.93.
> 
> (Rules: do the first five moves of a computer scramble, toss and spin it, no inspection.)


Haha, I played twice and I'm quiting.  Might do more but I'm tired. Got 14.70 and 6:52.32 (a good minute over a normal solve!). I spent a long time thinking I could restore the second one, then when I gave in and built my centers I went to edge pairing not using Hoya like normal for me. So it took forever. Maybe another time.


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## Rastinha (Jun 8, 2016)

I did 8 solves and gave up after the first one like Jason's where I thought I could restore it but didn't and had to start again. These were my times:







Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk


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## Jason Green (Jun 8, 2016)

I think it makes a good cubing riddle. What kind of competition were my first two times 14 seconds and 6 minutes 52 seconds? Hahaha


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## newtonbase (Jun 8, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> I bet this guy was glad he had bins.


What on earth was going on there?
Looks like his judge moved a couple of his cubes during the solve too.

Got possibly my easiest scramble ever this morning. Simple cross, easy pairs and PLL skip. Unfortunately I got this during my first ever attempt at a timed OH AO5 and got a 42s.
Edit: forgot about OLL!


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## mark49152 (Jun 8, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> What on earth was going on there?


I can imagine the discussions leading up to this. "Where's the best location for multi?" "Oh let's put it right next to the cacophonous cavorting martial arts display so that the screaming drowns out any distractions." "Great, I'll bring my extra enormous ear muffs."

Glad the 5x5 thing proved fun. I also had some fast and some very slow ones. Now for part two: same thing but on 3x3 . One additional rule: no resorting to a normal solve. You can solve and rescramble if you mess up the cube though.


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## Jason Green (Jun 8, 2016)

So do five moves of a scramble, but treat it like a normal solve starting with cross and so forth? Or FB I guess for Roux.


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## muchacho (Jun 8, 2016)

I was trying to get a new mo100 PB before reaching 20.000 timed solves, it was a good try... until the DNF mean of the last 65 solves was 22.193 (my PB is 22.965). Anyway I was not going to make it before 20.000 because apparently I'm now only 3 solves away from that


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## mark49152 (Jun 8, 2016)

Jason Green said:


> So do five moves of a scramble, but treat it like a normal solve starting with cross and so forth? Or FB I guess for Roux.


No, do five moves of a scramble, then toss and spin it, and see how long it takes you to figure out how to undo the scramble.


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## Shaky Hands (Jun 8, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> Now for part two: same thing but on 3x3 . One additional rule: no resorting to a normal solve. You can solve and rescramble if you mess up the cube though.



This is way harder for me.


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## mafergut (Jun 8, 2016)

Shaky Hands said:


> This is way harder for me.


Same here. 5 DNFs in a row and I quit. Max for me seems to be 4 moves.


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## muchacho (Jun 8, 2016)

That was fun... and too hard.

DNF 2:21.75 DNF DNF 25.44


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## mafergut (Jun 8, 2016)

muchacho said:


> That was fun... and too hard.
> 
> DNF 2:21.75 DNF DNF 25.44


At least you got some right. I DNFed when I couldn't figure out in 1 min or when I had already made a wrong turn and didn't know how to go back.

Also, to avoid remembering the scramble it's better for other person to scramble for you or, at least, scramble in random & unknown orientation (toss cube in the air, scramble without looking, toss cube again). Anyway you can always remember if the last moves were just 90º turn or 180º turn, which could help a bit.


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## moralsh (Jun 8, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> I can imagine the discussions leading up to this. "Where's the best location for multi?" "Oh let's put it right next to the cacophonous cavorting martial arts display so that the screaming drowns out any distractions." "Great, I'll bring my extra enormous ear muffs."



That was Arnold Classic Europe 2015, organized by yours truly.

It is a multisport event and it's always very very noisy. In the 2013 Edition We had 3BLD first round next to a cheerleader contest, earmuffs did nothing I had a 3:xx successs when I was averaging like 2 minutes because I had to memo everything twice.

Last year we also had a lot of problems with competition space and competitors access, so we are not going to organize that again, although a guy form Barcelona is going to organize, I think, but not my usual team and me.

On a side note, I need a Sq1 and WF single to have a single in all events and the same and 3BLD and FM to get all the averages, I'm pursuing to have everything but WF and plan to do it by the end of the year, would you guys try feet to get everything?


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## muchacho (Jun 8, 2016)

Feet solving does not appeal to me at all, but that is the least of my concerns, if somehow I would be able to do mBLD/4BLD/5BLD I would probably try feet and clock for completeness sake.


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## mafergut (Jun 8, 2016)

moralsh said:


> That was Arnold Classic Europe 2015, organized by yours truly.[...]
> On a side note, I need a Sq1 and WF single to have a single in all events and the same and 3BLD and FM to get all the averages, I'm pursuing to have everything but WF and plan to do it by the end of the year, would you guys try feet to get everything?



I didn't want to say anything after I investigated when Asier had gotten that record and I saw which event it was. I was sure you had a very good reason to do it that way 

Regarding WF, I know your friend @APdRF is the current national record holder and he does great at feet and all that but, oh man, I can't see me solving a Rubik's cube with my feet. Call me picky if you want 



muchacho said:


> Feet solving does not appeal to me at all, but that is the least of my concerns, if somehow I would be able to do mBLD/4BLD/5BLD I would probably try feet and clock for completeness sake.



Exactly my point. In my case I'd prefer to go with a not complete profile. I get colds easily if my feet are not warm and tucked away in their nice and warm socks  Maybe if the competition was during the summer... but, no way, I would have to practise at home, I forgot about that. I would have to relearn all the algs again so that means a lot of time barefoot.


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## h2f (Jun 8, 2016)

moralsh said:


> On a side note, I need a Sq1 and WF single to have a single in all events and the same and 3BLD and FM to get all the averages, I'm pursuing to have everything but WF and plan to do it by the end of the year, would you guys try feet to get everything?



This is amazing. Definetly I would like to have all singles.


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## Shaky Hands (Jun 8, 2016)

moralsh said:


> On a side note, I need a Sq1 and WF single to have a single in all events and the same and 3BLD and FM to get all the averages, I'm pursuing to have everything but WF and plan to do it by the end of the year, would you guys try feet to get everything?



Even Feliks can't be bothered with feet, not that it stops him from topping the Kinch rankings.

That said, it would be an interesting lifetime goal to get listed in the All Events Completion Club.


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## mark49152 (Jun 8, 2016)

moralsh said:


> That was Arnold Classic Europe 2015, organized by yours truly.


No offence intended, it was only a joke, because the amount of noise and activity in the video made me smile. Sometimes the venues are difficult but I'd always rather have the event than not. Cuthberts was in a shopping centre with noise and people standing around watching, but I didn't find it that distracting. Actually I'd rather have an environment that's continually noisy than a quiet environment with unexpected noises.

Regarding feet and other events, I'm not bothered about having an official result in everything. I'd rather focus on events I like and try to do well at them. In some ways I regret entering 6x6 because my result is poor and I don't have time to try to get any better at it.

On the five moves scramble I also found 3x3 much harder. It was fun trying that. I guess it might be good for training block building skills too.


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## moralsh (Jun 8, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> No offence intended



None taken, I also find shopping malls quite acceptable and events like the one we're talking about almost unbearable, in fact I have hearing problems when exposed to big noises and I try to avoid them. But organizing is cool and you almost always end up bearing things like those



Shaky Hands said:


> Even Feliks can't be bothered with feet, not that it stops him from topping the Kinch rankings.
> 
> That said, it would be an interesting lifetime goal to get listed in the All Events Completion Club.



I'm 25th in Spain, cool 
I only need to improve in shitty events to rank higher, hmm.

@muchacho, @mafergut, @h2f I will probably try to relearn Square-1 to a decent level in the summer and try to get the other missing means and leave the feet decision for the future me. With a bit of luck the WCA will drop the event altogether and I won't have to decide 

For my competition in 10 days I'll try to get better results in all blind events, as I'm not going to have a lot of practice time.


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## mafergut (Jun 8, 2016)

moralsh said:


> @muchacho, @mafergut, @h2f I will probably try to relearn Square-1 to a decent level in the summer and try to get the other missing means and leave the feet decision for the future me. With a bit of luck the WCA will drop the event altogether and I won't have to decide
> 
> For my competition in 10 days I'll try to get better results in all blind events, as I'm not going to have a lot of practice time.



Good luck! I also have SQ-1 in my TO DO list but it's taken a backseat to big cubes right now. I started with 4x4, now 5x5 and, you know, there's still 6x6 and 7x7 that I don't have a clue how to solve yet so this is taking me some time, I guess. Also BLD has suffered and I have probably forgotten M2 by now.


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## One Wheel (Jun 8, 2016)

moralsh said:


> With a bit of luck the WCA will drop the event altogether and I won't have to decide .



I hope not before I have a chance to get an official time. I think I've only had one successful feet solve, and that was on the order of 7:00+, but i very much like the idea and if I learn another method it will probably be Petrus specifically for feet. It seems though that the people who are good at feet have long skinny toes, like my dad has, but somehow I ended up with short fat toes stuck on size 13EEEEEE feet.


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## newtonbase (Jun 8, 2016)

If I was only 2 events away from a full set of results I'd consider WF but it'll never happen for me. 

I've set 4 move scrambles for my daughter when she was 6 and she was very good at it. She's too lazy to learn to solve though. 5 moves might be a bit much.


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## newtonbase (Jun 8, 2016)

Prior to North London I was close to 2 mins on 4x4 I've now added 30s to that judging by my last session. It's meant to be my focus for next comp. Better get cracking with the practice.


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## Shaky Hands (Jun 8, 2016)

mafergut said:


> I started with 4x4, now 5x5 and, you know, there's still 6x6 and 7x7 that I don't have a clue how to solve yet so this is taking me some time, I guess.



If you can solve 4x4 and 5x5, you should find everything in 6x6 and 7x7 intuitive except the final 2 centres. I learned how to do those from this video:





.


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## Jason Green (Jun 8, 2016)

I haven't learned bigger than 5x5 yet, I'm too slow at that.  Thanks for the video though!

No interest in feet solving fit me anytime I can foresee.


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## MarcelP (Jun 8, 2016)

some nice solves with the GTS. I did not realise there where two orange crosses and one red cross untill I watched.


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## One Wheel (Jun 8, 2016)

Jason Green said:


> I haven't learned bigger than 5x5 yet, I'm too slow at that. .



In my experience one of the best ways to get faster, especially at big cubes, is to practice the next size or two up.


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## mafergut (Jun 8, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> Prior to North London I was close to 2 mins on 4x4 I've now added 30s to that judging by my last session. It's meant to be my focus for next comp. Better get cracking with the practice.



It happened to me as well. I was en route for sub 1:30 and all of a sudden I'm back to high 1:3x. I was told that 5x5 practice would help my 4x4 times not make them worse but I'm not sure anymore.



Shaky Hands said:


> If you can solve 4x4 and 5x5, you should find everything in 6x6 and 7x7 intuitive except the final 2 centres. I learned how to do those from this video:



Thanks. I will check the video. I also will have to buy a 6x6  I already have an Aofu GT 7x7 and solved it like 4-5 times, only 3 of them timed. Best time was 20:xx and I had first to learn some trick to finish L2C as in the untimed solves I was having a very hard time with that. Also with L4E. I don't remember the video I watched but I'm sure this one you provided will be very helpful as well.


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## mark49152 (Jun 8, 2016)

My thoughts on bigger cube practice: Practising 5x5 improves recognition and makes 4x4 seem "easier". However, getting a 4x4 PB also involves turning fast, and going back to 4x4 after 5x5 practice results in slower turning. 

So I notice a sort of ping-pong effect, where I practise one and get slower at the other, then see a burst of improvement at the second and get slower again at the first.


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## Logiqx (Jun 8, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> No, do five moves of a scramble, then toss and spin it, and see how long it takes you to figure out how to undo the scramble.



Gosh. That is kinda hard but I got a result!

I DNF'd when I couldn't do a 5 move solution but I persevered until I got an Ao12.

Results and scrambles... final solves are listed first.



Spoiler



Title: 3x3x3 Cube
Scrambler: 3x3x3 Simple
Session: 2
# of solving: 23
# of penalty: 0
# of DNF: 3
Std Dev: N/A
Best of all: 12.434
Worst of all: DNF
Average of all: N/A
Best Avg of 5: 23.720
Best Avg of 12: 33.746
Avg of Inspection: 27:54.119
---- Generated by KingEn Timer v3.3

Solving times: 51.598 43.797 45.518 16.282 46.073 29.895 1:04.956 23.826 22.150 27.277 24.074 23.260 DNF DNF 40.730 25.053 13.683 49.430 DNF 12.434 33.550 1:18.128 55.677

Times and Scrambles:
1. 51.598 (Inspection: 1:06.379) Date: 2016-06-08 18:04:51
D F B' R U' F2 L2 U B D B' D' R D2 F2 D' F' B U F2 D2 B2 L B2 D2

2. 43.797 (Inspection: 2:32.519) Date: 2016-06-08 18:03:37
U' L' D R L F' L2 F2 U R2 D R' D' F L F' D2 B' U' D2 R' L U2 D R

3. 45.518 (Inspection: 27.960) Date: 2016-06-08 18:01:06
B' L' D' F D' U R L' B' F L2 R D' R' U' L2 D U' R' D2 R L U' D2 R

4. 16.282 (Inspection: 57.667) Date: 2016-06-08 18:00:09
R2 L' D L2 R B' F' L2 D2 B2 F2 R2 L F D' L' D2 F' R2 D' U' R' B L2 B'

5. 46.073 (Inspection: 41.623) Date: 2016-06-08 17:59:41
B' R D B2 F2 D2 L D' U2 F2 D2 U2 L2 B' U' D2 R2 L2 F2 L2 D R F2 B2 D'

6. 29.895 (Inspection: 1:14.367) Date: 2016-06-08 17:58:43
D U' B2 L2 R' U2 L' R D' R L2 D B' L2 D2 F L' R' D B R2 B U2 F B

7. 1:04.956 (Inspection: 34.096) Date: 2016-06-08 17:58:04
U2 F2 L' D F2 L2 R' B' R' D' F U B L U2 B' R U R U B F L' B2 D2

8. 23.826 (Inspection: 32.618) Date: 2016-06-08 17:56:49
B' R2 D2 F B2 D2 R2 U F' R2 F D2 B U D2 L2 U' D' F' D L' D R2 D L2

9. 22.150 (Inspection: 36.562) Date: 2016-06-08 17:56:14
B R2 D' U F D' R' D U' B2 U2 B2 D R F U2 R2 L B D2 R F R2 U' F2

10. 27.277 (Inspection: 34.528) Date: 2016-06-08 17:55:43
B' R2 L F' R F' R L2 B2 U2 L' R2 B2 R D2 B2 U' D F2 U' F' R F' L2 D2

11. 24.074 (Inspection: 40.743) Date: 2016-06-08 17:55:05
F2 R D' R U' F R' U2 L' B' L U2 R' U' F2 D F2 L R2 D2 F R' D B' L

12. 23.260 (Inspection: 1:04.648) Date: 2016-06-08 17:54:24
F2 U2 B F' L' F L U R' B2 D' L B' D' B' D2 F L U B2 R' U R2 B F

13. DNF (Inspection: 2:11.957) Date: 2016-06-08 17:53:48
F L U' R U R2 F2 D' B' R' L U2 D' R2 D' R U2 D' F U2 D' F R' B R2

14. DNF (Inspection: 52.582) Date: 2016-06-08 17:52:44
U L' U2 F' U D2 B R2 D B L' B R' F B' L' R2 F' R2 L2 B R2 L2 F' U'

15. 40.730 (Inspection: 32.598) Date: 2016-06-08 17:50:32
R' F' U2 R' D2 U2 B2 D U' F B D' U R2 F2 U' B U D2 F' L F2 D R2 U'

16. 25.053 (Inspection: 25.264) Date: 2016-06-08 17:49:44
L D2 U B2 R F' B' D2 F2 B R B' U2 L U R2 L F' B' R L2 D R F2 U'

17. 13.683 (Inspection: 1:17.001) Date: 2016-06-08 17:49:07
U' R2 L B' F D2 U2 B' R2 F2 L B' D' R' F U2 R D' L' B' U2 D' B' U2 L'

18. 49.430 (Inspection: 1:45.610) Date: 2016-06-08 17:48:26
L2 B2 U' L' R2 U' F D U' L F' U2 F L F2 D F R2 B D B2 U2 F L2 D

19. DNF (Inspection: 27.037) Date: 2016-06-08 17:47:01
F L2 D2 B2 D' B' R2 B' R' L B' D U' B2 D F2 U' L F2 L2 F' B2 L B2 D'

20. 12.434 (Inspection: 40.888) Date: 2016-06-08 17:45:36
R' D B' D L' D' R' L' D' R' B' F' D B' R D B2 U L' D2 L2 B D2 F2 U

21. 33.550 (Inspection: 1:32.923) Date: 2016-06-08 17:45:16
B' L D B' R L D' L F' D' R2 L D U R' D' R' L' D2 F' R L D2 B2 R'

22. 1:18.128 (Inspection: 1:03.235) Date: 2016-06-08 17:44:28
L' U' B R2 U' L D L R U' B' F' L U2 L2 F2 B2 D F2 U' L R D' L' U2

23. 55.677 (Inspection: 619:51.948) Date: 2016-06-08 17:43:02
R D2 B' F L' D2 F' L B F2 U R' D2 U' B2 D F R' D B2 L U' D' F2 U


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## mafergut (Jun 8, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> My thoughts on bigger cube practice: Practising 5x5 improves recognition and makes 4x4 seem "easier". However, getting a 4x4 PB also involves turning fast, and going back to 4x4 after 5x5 practice results in slower turning.
> 
> So I notice a sort of ping-pong effect, where I practise one and get slower at the other, then see a burst of improvement at the second and get slower again at the first.


Mmmm, that might explain it. At least I hope it's the case


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## muchacho (Jun 8, 2016)

Graphs with my first 20000 timed solves.

The peak at 15000 was because I started using an stickerless cube with different shades and some colors swaped. The one around 17000 was when I started using the U CMLL set on timed solves. Not much improvement in 5000 solves but I'm highly optimistic.


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## h2f (Jun 8, 2016)

moralsh said:


> @muchacho, @mafergut, @h2f I will probably try to relearn Square-1 to a decent level in the summer and try to get the other missing means and leave the feet decision for the future me. With a bit of luck the WCA will drop the event altogether and I won't have to decide
> 
> For my competition in 10 days I'll try to get better results in all blind events, as I'm not going to have a lot of practice time.



I've realized i need only 5 events: feet, megaminx, 5bld and sq1, 7x7.

@muchacho , impresssive!


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## Logiqx (Jun 8, 2016)

Nice graphs @muchacho 

I love the first one as it shows how easy it is to improve early on and how it becomes a lot harder after 30 seconds.


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## Logiqx (Jun 8, 2016)

Logiqx said:


> Gosh. That is kinda hard but I got a result!
> 
> I DNF'd when I couldn't do a 5 move solution but I persevered until I got an Ao12.
> 
> ...



Best Avg of 5: 23.720
Best Avg of 12: 33.746

Race to sub-20 anyone? haha


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## moralsh (Jun 8, 2016)

h2f said:


> I've realized i need only 5 events: feet, megaminx, 5bld and sq1, 7x7.
> 
> @muchacho , impresssive!


And to get the averages you will need to move out of Poland 

@muchacho, impressive indeed!


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## Shaky Hands (Jun 8, 2016)

moralsh said:


> And to get the averages you will need to move out of Poland
> 
> @muchacho, impressive indeed!



Wow, just looking at your WCA profile, Grzegorz. Those cutoff times in Poland must be really tough!


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## h2f (Jun 8, 2016)

moralsh said:


> And to get the averages you will need to move out of Poland
> 
> @muchacho, impressive indeed!


Or just take a part in comp in Spain.  Yeah, you're right. Those cutoffs are hard.


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## earth2dan (Jun 8, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> Here's a new game and challenge. 5x5 five move scramble. PB ao12 = 28.93.
> (Rules: do the first five moves of a computer scramble, toss and spin it, no inspection.)


That was fun, and challenging. The two that were over a minute I was able to reduce back to 3x3 stage without breaking edges/centers. The other 3 I was able to reverse engineer. The 8 second one was just a really easy scramble...

1:07.78, 40.81, 1:01.75, 8.32, 23.23

I like this game


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## mafergut (Jun 8, 2016)

@muchacho, David, very nice. Keep pushing!!!

@moralsh, @h2f, Raúl, Grzegorz, and others that have been discussing about completeness of their WCA profiles. I'm so envious that I don't even have one to begin with. I'd be glad to have 2x2 through to 4x4, OH, Pyra, Skewb and Mega. Probably if I ever go to my first comp I will not be as greedy and will go just for 2x2 through 4x4 and little else.

I am trying to make some changes to my 4x4 based upon recommendations to my Mo3 that I posted some weeks ago. I was today trying to change pairing of 3 1st cross egdes from E-slice to M-slice. it definitely feels much more ergonomic but my lookahead is equally terrible. I will change to that but I'm not sure I will become any faster because of it.

I have been recommended (twice) to "not build centers a piece at a time but a slice at a time" but not sure if that means "half centers" or just that my center building can be improved in some other way. I think I will need to do some slow solves to thinkg about that a bit.

Also I popped an internal piece of my G4 while practicing today and it took like 5 minutes to fix it.


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## Shaky Hands (Jun 8, 2016)

mafergut said:


> Also I popped an internal piece of my G4 while practicing today and it took like 5 minutes to fix it.



I had my first 6x6 pop today. As usual, my pops tend to happen when scrambling rather than when solving.

It surprised me that it took less time to fix that 6x6 pop than a 4x4 pop. I guess the extra pieces give it a bit more stability during reconstruction.

Not long after the pop I got a PB single and average on 6x6 in the Weekly Comp, so all is good anyway!


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## mafergut (Jun 8, 2016)

Shaky Hands said:


> I had my first 6x6 pop today. As usual, my pops tend to happen when scrambling rather than when solving.
> 
> It surprised me that it took less time to fix that 6x6 pop than a 4x4 pop. I guess the extra pieces give it a bit more stability during reconstruction.
> 
> Not long after the pop I got a PB single and average on 6x6 in the Weekly Comp, so all is good anyway!


Time for me to go buy that Yuxin 6x6, don't you think? But I am just waiting for the new Shengshou Kilominx (or whatever they decide to call it) to come on sale to pick that one too. It looks so beautiful!!!


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## earth2dan (Jun 8, 2016)

Wow. Respect to you guys that are down under 4:00 for megaminx. I just did my first mega solve in a long time and it took over 9:00...

Any tips on methods/algs to learn?

This is how I solve it. I guess this would be considered a beginners method:
1. Cross
2. F2L
3. Then I just finish each bottom face one at a time, however I can put them together
4. Insert remaining 5 edges
5. Orient top edges (F sexy F')
6. Permute top edges (Sune)
7. Orient top corners (Swap method)
8. Permute top corners (Swap method)



mafergut said:


> Time for me to go buy that Yuxin 6x6, don't you think?


Mine just shipped today, along with the 4x4. Cubicle ships pretty fast so hopefully I should have it by end of next week


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## Rastinha (Jun 8, 2016)

I know what you mean, I got my mega a week and a half ago and it takes so long to solve that I haven't done that many. I enjoy it in the beginning though when you're making such good progress. Like 19 minutes for the first solve, down to 17, 14, 12, 11, 10... so far my best is 10 minutes but I don't remember all of the last steps. I bought the yj one but it's a bit sticky in a lot of places. More practice i think but also keen for any hints!

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk


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## muchacho (Jun 9, 2016)

My first solves took more than 15 minutes, I think I was slower than 9 minutes until having done like 20-25 solves. I got below 4 minutes just by practicing, even inserting one piece at a time during F2L. I started learning some algs for LL but don't think that shaved me more than a few seconds, that's not were to focus in the beginning.

So, practice... and a better mega. I'm modding a Shengshou, but I think they are releasing soon a new one with Florian mod


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## moralsh (Jun 9, 2016)

@mafergut, about 6x6 and 7x7 centers, yes definitely, buiding bars elsewhere and inserting them in the center you are doing is the way to go, you've got to force yourself to use as many undone centers as you can to try to lower the move count as much as possible and once you get the hang of every case, focus on moving fast.

Last two centers are not that hard your last bar has to be a side bar and the previous one the next to center bar, that should leave you enough freedom to solve everything or everything but an oblique center which you can solve with a conmutator.

As in 3x3 slow turnning and practicing just last 2 centers (easy to hand scramble) helps a lot.

@earth2dan, I do the same as you except after star and F2L I always continue with dark green and then every other center clockwise, I insert an edge and then the corresponding S2L pair the last 2 ones are a bit trickier but nothing very complicated, my times started to drop when I started following a precise order other than just insert whatever I find.

I can't wait for the QiYi megaminxes


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## h2f (Jun 9, 2016)

I've started regular practice in 3bld. I'm back to M2 with only few comms due to comp in 2 weeks. Yesterday my practice session was around midnight. This is last solve. I've realized, after watching it now, it should be sub 1 - my excuse is: I was to tired after a job day.


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## mark49152 (Jun 9, 2016)

h2f said:


> I've started regular practice in 3bld. I'm back to M2 with only few comms due to comp in 2 weeks. Yesterday my practice session was around midnight. This is last solve. I've realized, after watching it now, it should be sub 1 - my excuse is: I was to tired after a job day.


Nice solve. 22 second memo is great, execution was slow - should have been sub-50!


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## muchacho (Jun 9, 2016)

Wow, memo was so fast!

3x3 PBs

Ao5: 18.681 (it was 18.780 from 28-may)
Ao12: 20.637 (it was 20.665 from 29-may)



Spoiler



20162 09-jun-2016 9:06:10 00:22.806 U2 L2 U' R2 L2 B2 L2 D' F2 D2 F D2 R' F' R U2 R F D' B2 U'
20161 09-jun-2016 9:05:21 00:22.206 R2 L2 D' R2 F2 R2 D' B2 R2 D' L' U' B' L D F' U' L' U2 B2
20160 09-jun-2016 9:04:27 00:21.656 U2 R2 L2 U' L2 D' U' R2 F2 U R' B L U2 B2 U' L' B2 D' U2
20159 09-jun-2016 9:03:47 00:19.279 D L2 D2 B2 U F2 R2 L2 D F2 U' B R2 F2 L' F U' L D B' L D2
20158 09-jun-2016 9:02:58 00:22.392 L2 U' B2 F2 R2 L2 D2 R2 U L2 F2 R B2 D F' L' D L D' B' D' U'
20157 09-jun-2016 9:02:10 00:21.519 L2 F2 R2 D2 R2 U R2 B2 U L2 D' R D' U2 B' D U' B D' B2 D'
20156 09-jun-2016 9:01:25 00:20.471 U2 F2 L2 D2 R2 D R2 B2 D' L2 U' F' R' F2 L' U' B' R L D2 F D
20155 09-jun-2016 9:00:32 00:18.231 D R2 L2 D R2 D2 U R2 F2 D F2 R' F D2 R' F U L B U B U2
20154 09-jun-2016 8:59:48 00:15.558 B2 L2 D R2 F2 U B2 D L2 D U R D F' R' F' L U L B U L
20153 09-jun-2016 8:59:01 00:19.046 U' B2 D' U2 R2 B2 L2 B2 L2 U2 R' D F U' F L D' F L2 D' U'
20152 09-jun-2016 8:58:10 00:25.536 L2 D' B2 R2 U B2 D' R2 D2 L2 U2 L' D2 R B2 F' R2 D L' U' B U2
20151 09-jun-2016 8:57:29 00:18.768 R2 D2 L2 U F2 U F2 L2 F2 D2 F2 R D L' B F2 D2 U L B' D'


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## h2f (Jun 9, 2016)

muchacho said:


> Wow, memo was so fast!
> 
> 3x3 PBs
> 
> ...



Nice.

@mark49152, @muchacho yes I'm glad with memo pace - that is my goal right now. Too much thinking during execution.


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## JanW (Jun 9, 2016)

Really nice fast memo! I suppose you always use same word or image for every letter pair?

My bld solves took a turn for the worse and I started seeing more complete messes. Found the culprit, I was performing the U perm (both U perms) wrong... Fixed that and now I got a couple of successful solves. Haven't timed them yet. Will do timed solves once I get back home.


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## h2f (Jun 9, 2016)

Thanks @JanW, yes the same words/images. I'm in the middle of reviewing them and changing for better words.


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## mafergut (Jun 9, 2016)

earth2dan said:


> Wow. Respect to you guys that are down under 4:00 for megaminx. I just did my first mega solve in a long time and it took over 9:00...
> 
> Any tips on methods/algs to learn?
> 
> Mine just shipped today, along with the 4x4. Cubicle ships pretty fast so hopefully I should have it by end of next week



As David, @muchacho said, just a bit of practice was enough for us both to get below 4:00 minutes and close to 3:00. Of course then Chris @Selkie came and destroyed our times in two weeks but even for mere mortals sub 4:00 should be feasible with just those same steps. I never learned any specific LL algs just did what you more or less explain, with maybe a slightly different order or method, like using a Niklas variant for CP. Only recommendation is to follow a specific order. I start with white cross and F2L, then red face (two aditional edges and 3 S2L pairs), then blue (one additional edge and 2 S2L pairs) and so on until last face (light blue) and then LL (grey).

I have stopped practicing, though, because big cubes got in the middle and I have limited time  and also because my unmodded Shengshou was so locky (but otherwise so smooth and nice to turn) and the ridged stickerless dayan I bougth was defective and screws and center caps kept shooting in the air like crazy when solving. Right now I'm waiting for those promising QiYi Megas that will hopefully come on sale soon to retake the event.

Also, don't hesitate in sharing here your first impressions of those two new and promising Yuxin cubes. I'm definitely getting the 6x6 but if the 4x4 is better than the G4 (quite a challenge)... well, you know the rest


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## earth2dan (Jun 9, 2016)

Thanks for the mega tips everyone. I guess I'll just stick to this method and work on refining it through practice. Following a specific order of operations is something that helped immensely when I started solving 5x5 and bigger cubes, so it makes sense that I should implement some rules like that for mega as well.

@mafergut I've had a few center caps and screws blast out on my new stickerless ridged dayan as well, and I think I know what the cause is (and a possible solution). I think when the faces are turned counter clockwise the friction is gradually turning the screws as well, effectively loosening them from the core to the point of release. I suspect that if you only ever did clockwise turns they wouldn't pop out... Though, that's no solution . I think the solution is to lube the core very well. A healthy dose of lube should reduce the friction that is causing those screws to turn. I'm also considering a very tiny strip of plumbing tape to help keep those screws in tight.

I'll definitely post my thoughts on the new Yuxin 6x6 and 4x4 when they get here. I'll do an unboxing if I can resist opening it until late evening when I have time to record. I make no promises


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## mafergut (Jun 9, 2016)

earth2dan said:


> Thanks for the mega tips everyone. I guess I'll just stick to this method and work on refining it through practice. Following a specific order of operations is something that helped immensely when I started solving 5x5 and bigger cubes, so it makes sense that I should implement some rules like that for mega as well.
> 
> @mafergut I've had a few center caps and screws blast out on my new stickerless ridged dayan as well, and I think I know what the cause is (and a possible solution). I think when the faces are turned counter clockwise the friction is gradually turning the screws as well, effectively loosening them from the core to the point of release. I suspect that if you only ever did clockwise turns they wouldn't pop out... Though, that's no solution . I think the solution is to lube the core very well. A healthy dose of lube should reduce the friction that is causing those screws to turn. I'm also considering a very tiny strip of plumbing tape to help keep those screws in tight.
> 
> I'll definitely post my thoughts on the new Yuxin 6x6 and 4x4 when they get here. I'll do an unboxing if I can resist opening it until late evening when I have time to record. I make no promises


Thanks for the tip. Somebody mentioned also the option to use some product to rethread the core. It must be somewhere in this thread, I don't remember the name. But maybe just lubing the core could be a solution. Anyway, if by the time I want to take on Mega again there are good QiYi products available I will not even bother with the Dayan.

And regarding the unboxing, a 1st impressions will do or even you can fake the unboxing again, I don't mind if you already opened the boxes. I have a "first impressions" video pending on a lot of my new cubes, since Aofu GT. I might do it one of these days 

EDIT: Found it, it was threadlock I think but this is some kind of adhesive so I assume that you would end up with non-adjustable tensions if you glue the screws to the core. Also delicate if you don't get the tensions right at 1st try.

EDIT2: @h2f, Grzegorz, impressive 3BLD solve. If you can get the flow of execution a bit faster you are ready for a PB around 45 seconds in no time.


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## earth2dan (Jun 9, 2016)

mafergut said:


> EDIT: Found it, it was threadlock I think but this is some kind of adhesive so I assume that you would end up with non-adjustable tensions if you glue the screws to the core. Also delicate if you don't get the tensions right at 1st try.


Ah yes. I've used a similar product called Loctite in other projects. Not something I would want to use in a cube though, because it is semi-permanent and could ruin the core threading if you tried to adjust/remove the screws. However, if you've already stripped the core that could work as a solution. This is why I thought maybe a tiny strip of plumbing tape would work. It'll tighten things up, but you could still adjust and remove the screws without damaging anything.

I'm gonna try lubing it first to see if that helps. If that solves the problem I won't worry about it .


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## muchacho (Jun 9, 2016)

OH PBs

Single: 41.756 (was 42.805 from 22-may-15)
Ao5: 49.046 (was 56.849 from 30-may-15)
Ao12: 58.620 (was 58.994 from 30-may-15)

I've also learned how to execute some CMLLs with OH. For just a few of the cases I guess I might learn a new alg.


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## h2f (Jun 9, 2016)

@muchacho, congrats. What cube do you use for OH?



> EDIT2: @h2f, Grzegorz, impressive 3BLD solve. If you can get the flow of execution a bit faster you are ready for a PB around 45 seconds in no time.



That's the problem. I try to figure out how to make it faster but I'm not sure what to do.


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## muchacho (Jun 9, 2016)

The same one as for 2H, a stickerless Weilong, I still have the feeling that a slightly smaller cube would be better, but no big deal.

I got the Weilong GTS a few days ago and for OH it felt really nice, but I have to buy some stickers for it, times where like 10-15 seconds worst with it due to recognition problems.


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## h2f (Jun 9, 2016)

muchacho said:


> The same one as for 2H, a stickerless Weilong, I still have the feeling that a slightly smaller cube would be better, but no big deal.
> 
> I got the Weilong GTS a few days ago and for OH it felt really nice, but I have to buy some stickers for it, times where like 10-15 seconds worst with it due to recognition problems.



I found my old Weilong quite good to OH.


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## phreaker (Jun 9, 2016)

muchacho said:


> The same one as for 2H, a stickerless Weilong, I still have the feeling that a slightly smaller cube would be better, but no big deal.
> 
> I got the Weilong GTS a few days ago and for OH it felt really nice, but I have to buy some stickers for it, times where like 10-15 seconds worst with it due to recognition problems.



Do you use a different color scheme?

I'm playing with a GTS, OH myself. It is the most forgiving cube I've run into.


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## newtonbase (Jun 9, 2016)

Any tips for 4x4 practice? I'm using Yau with 3-2-3 edge pairing but can't get a single under 2 mins at the moment. It's meant to be one of my main focuses for the next comp but I'm not keen on practicing for 7 weeks to get just 2 solves.
Finding pieces is my biggest problem.


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## phreaker (Jun 9, 2016)

Welcome to page 500!


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## Jason Green (Jun 9, 2016)

mafergut said:


> Also, don't hesitate in sharing here your first impressions of those two new and promising Yuxin cubes. I'm definitely getting the 6x6 but if the 4x4 is better than the G4 (quite a challenge)... well, you know the rest



Like anyone here would hesitate?  I'm tempted to buy the Yuxin 6x6 but I really think I'll wait due to having time to practice what I want. The 4x4 too has crossed my mind.



earth2dan said:


> I'll definitely post my thoughts on the new Yuxin 6x6 and 4x4 when they get here. I'll do an unboxing if I can resist opening it until late evening when I have time to record. I make no promises



Agreed, a first impressions or any video is fine, it doesn't have to be a true unboxing.


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## phreaker (Jun 9, 2016)

Jason Green said:


> Like anyone here would hesitate?  I'm tempted to buy the Yuxin 6x6 but I really think I'll wait due to having time to practice what I want. The 4x4 too has crossed my mind.
> 
> 
> 
> Agreed, a first impressions or any video is fine, it doesn't have to be a true unboxing.



I'd love to hear the impression with a bit of break-in, and setup properly... because that's how we'll actually use it.


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## mark49152 (Jun 10, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> Any tips for 4x4 practice? I'm using Yau with 3-2-3 edge pairing but can't get a single under 2 mins at the moment. It's meant to be one of my main focuses for the next comp but I'm not keen on practicing for 7 weeks to get just 2 solves.
> Finding pieces is my biggest problem.


Try Hoya, if you haven't already. I had the same problem with Yau and that's why I switched.


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## CLL Smooth (Jun 10, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> Any tips for 4x4 practice? I'm using Yau with 3-2-3 edge pairing but can't get a single under 2 mins at the moment. It's meant to be one of my main focuses for the next comp but I'm not keen on practicing for 7 weeks to get just 2 solves.
> Finding pieces is my biggest problem.


Have you timed your splits to see which areas need focus? Also, I recommend giving Hoya a try if you haven't already. I found it much more comfortable than Yau and my times saw an almost immediate improvement when I switched.


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## muchacho (Jun 10, 2016)

phreaker said:


> Do you use a different color scheme?
> 
> I'm playing with a GTS, OH myself. It is the most forgiving cube I've run into.


Yep, colorblind to the green cubes usually come in, I get it confused with yellow, and sometimes also with some oranges (like the one that comes with the Weilong ) if light is not good.

Since I wanted to use stickerless cubes, I put black pieces where the red usually are, the red was moved to the orange position and the orange to the green.

I think I'll be able to use the same scheme on stickered cubes, but the red and orange stickers that I have are a bit too dark, I have to buy lighter ones.

The cube can be seen in this video:


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## newtonbase (Jun 10, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> Try Hoya, if you haven't already. I had the same problem with Yau and that's why I switched.





CLL Smooth said:


> Have you timed your splits to see which areas need focus? Also, I recommend giving Hoya a try if you haven't already. I found it much more comfortable than Yau and my times saw an almost immediate improvement when I switched.



I haven't timed splits but I'm pretty sure that it's the pairing that really let's me down both in cross and edge pairing. 
I'll give Hoya a try. What are the best resources? I have a couple of of longish car journeys this weekend. If I can get the wife to do some of the driving I'll learn it then. Thanks guys.


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## mafergut (Jun 10, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> I haven't timed splits but I'm pretty sure that it's the pairing that really let's me down both in cross and edge pairing.
> I'll give Hoya a try. What are the best resources? I have a couple of of longish car journeys this weekend. If I can get the wife to do some of the driving I'll learn it then. Thanks guys.


Of course, trying Hoya might be a good idea. Maybe I should try that out too. Anyway, I have been able to get down to 1:30-1:40 with Yau and, well, yeah, I still have a lot to improve in lookahead / finding pieces but I think that if solves go over 2 minutes it's not only because pairing, probably, but small things here and there that add up. Why don't you film an Mo3 so that you can get more specific advice? Not by me, probably (but I'll do my best, of course) but by other faster solvers around this forum. I progressed significantly just by changing from 6-2 pairing to 3-2-3 and now I think changing to 1st 3 cross edge pairing on M instead of E slice is better for ergonomics and also lookahead but I'm still trying to get used to it. Hope you get you goal!!!


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## JanW (Jun 10, 2016)

h2f said:


> That's the problem. I try to figure out how to make it faster but I'm not sure what to do.


I just remembered this software I wrote last December for drilling 3-cycles, which I think could be helpful to you. I got it almost completed, only missing feature was support for custom letter scheme, but then I completely forgot about it as other work got in the way. If you want to test it, I could send it to you when I get back home this weekend. I might not have time to write in support for custom letter scheme, but I could make a version with your letter scheme as default. You use Speffz?


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## mark49152 (Jun 10, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> I haven't timed splits but I'm pretty sure that it's the pairing that really let's me down both in cross and edge pairing.
> I'll give Hoya a try. What are the best resources?


I can't remember where I learned but I think it was Aaron Lo Prete's video (sp?).

I switched to Hoya in Jan 2014 when I averaged about 2:30 and within a month I was down to 2:00. I now average 1:10 with 4LLL so I know I have room for improving further if only I had more practice time .

For me, the key to getter faster after about 1:30 was lookahead. That means (i) making it easier to find pieces while (ii) always keeping moving. Hoya helps with both aspects IMHO. 

In the cross stage of Hoya, you have eight pieces to solve and you can find and solve them in any order. You don't have to find specific pieces to pair up as you do in Yau. That makes it easier to not pause, because you just solve the next cross wing you see. There's less hunting. The insertions are simple and you don't have to look to align the bottom face, so it's easier to do those things automatically while scanning the cube for more pieces. So easier to keep moving. Lookahead is thus easier to develop. 

I also use 3-2-3 and also find that lookahead is the key to good times. I don't have any specific advice on that, but I have gone through a few different schemes of choosing slots to insert to and rotations to apply, until I found one that worked well for me. Maybe you just need to experiment. It's hard to explain concisely what I do, but I slice with Uw then insert the bottom wing to FR, FL, FL, and then do the 2-3 on FR. I insert the bottom wing to FR while slicing Uw meaning that on most solves all inserts are done to the same slot. Previously, I was inserting pieces to the layer I was slicing so inserts alternated between FR and FL, and that was more awkward. Hope that makes sense .


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## mafergut (Jun 10, 2016)

JanW said:


> I just remembered this software I wrote last December for drilling 3-cycles, which I think could be helpful to you. I got it almost completed, only missing feature was support for custom letter scheme, but then I completely forgot about it as other work got in the way. If you want to test it, I could send it to you when I get back home this weekend. I might not have time to write in support for custom letter scheme, but I could make a version with your letter scheme as default. You use Speffz?


You see, @h2f Grzegorz? We all want to help you achieve that goal. I don't have much to offer, other than my absolute belief that you can do it.


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## Shaky Hands (Jun 10, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> I haven't timed splits but I'm pretty sure that it's the pairing that really let's me down both in cross and edge pairing.
> I'll give Hoya a try. What are the best resources? I have a couple of of longish car journeys this weekend. If I can get the wife to do some of the driving I'll learn it then. Thanks guys.





mark49152 said:


> I can't remember where I learned but I think it was Aaron Lo Prete's video (sp?).



Not that I use Hoya (yet) but I have watched several vids on it.

This is Aaron's video on Hoya 4x4:






There's also a longer one by him on Hoya 4x4 and 5x5:






I also think the Cubinger video is good (and a bit more recent):






Cheers and good luck.


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## h2f (Jun 10, 2016)

JanW said:


> I just remembered this software I wrote last December for drilling 3-cycles, which I think could be helpful to you. I got it almost completed, only missing feature was support for custom letter scheme, but then I completely forgot about it as other work got in the way. If you want to test it, I could send it to you when I get back home this weekend. I might not have time to write in support for custom letter scheme, but I could make a version with your letter scheme as default. You use Speffz?





mafergut said:


> You see, @h2f Grzegorz? We all want to help you achieve that goal. I don't have much to offer, other than my absolute belief that you can do it.



Thank you both. Ollie Frost gave me an advice to stay with 3style and to make a lot of sighted solves. So I've started doing it and found it helpfull at this stage. @JanW, yes I would like to test it. I use my own letter scheme - it's in my signature in 3style algs. 

I'm gonna give Hoya a try on 4x4.


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## JanW (Jun 10, 2016)

Okay, I will check it out and make you a version when I get home.


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## newtonbase (Jun 10, 2016)

Shaky Hands said:


> Not that I use Hoya (yet) but I have watched several vids on it.
> 
> This is Aaron's video on Hoya 4x4:
> 
> ...


Thanks for that. I'll try to watch them at lunch.


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## mafergut (Jun 10, 2016)

Wow! Got what's surely one of my top 3 averages of 5 (3x3). Sadly not on cam. All full step solves too. Sad part is that the 19 should have been clearly sub-17, maybe even sub-16 (I had to redo a couple moves of a wrong OLL start and PLL was very locky) so it could have been my all time 2nd sub 16 Ao5, maybe even PB 

Generated By csTimer on 2016-6-10
avg of 5: 16.09

Time List:
15.89, 17.15, 15.20, (19.59), (15.16)


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## phreaker (Jun 10, 2016)

muchacho said:


> Yep, colorblind to the green cubes usually come in, I get it confused with yellow, and sometimes also with some oranges (like the one that comes with the Weilong ) if light is not good.
> 
> Since I wanted to use stickerless cubes, I put black pieces where the red usually are, the red was moved to the orange position and the orange to the green.
> 
> ...



Interesting. I also use a colorblind scheme on stickerless cubes, but because Red and Orange are far enough apart contrast wise, usually, and Green can collide with Orange and Yellow, I pull green, and just replace it with black. So I get "Black and Blue" cubes.

I figured this was an easier replacement than any of the others, and has worked well on the Yuexiao, and the Thunderclap I did it on. I haven't moved it to all cubes yet, because I can tell the GTS' stickers apart, and good stickerless colors apart... but bad ones... man do I hate that.

I'm "color deficient" to Red. So, the fact I keep two reds, is amusing, but it seems to work quite well. Also for ZZ the easy thing to remember is "Red is Wrong" for EO. Except when I do it Y rotated .


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## mafergut (Jun 10, 2016)

h2f said:


> I'm gonna give Hoya a try on 4x4.



I just watched the 1st tutorial that Andy @Shaky Hands posted here and I might also give it a try. It looks interesting and in case of switching the sooner the better, before I put too much effort on trying to get better at Yau.


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## mark49152 (Jun 10, 2016)

This is the 9999th post in this thread. Who's gonna be next?


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## mafergut (Jun 10, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> This is the 9999th post in this thread. Who's gonna be next?


According to what I see in the page, yours is post 10000, but I'm surrunding you with 9999 and 10001


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## JanW (Jun 10, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> This is the 9999th post in this thread. Who's gonna be next?


Nope, you posted the 9999th reply = post #10000. Liking because #10000.


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## mark49152 (Jun 10, 2016)

Oh yeah you are right, the 9999th reply . I bet when Marcel posted his intro he would never have believed it would turn into a mega thread and still be going 4 years and 10000 posts later!


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## mafergut (Jun 10, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> Oh yeah you are right, the 9999th reply . I bet when Marcel posted his intro he would never have believed it would turn into a mega thread and still be going 4 years and 10000 posts later!


And this is just the beginning, my online friends, just the beginning


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## moralsh (Jun 10, 2016)

Now go to the first pages and check out who's the first name you still see around here other than Marcel [emoji13]


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## Jason Green (Jun 10, 2016)

Hope they did not make the post number a short.


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## mark49152 (Jun 10, 2016)

moralsh said:


> Now go to the first pages and check out who's the first name you still see around here other than Marcel [emoji13]


Congrats @moralsh at coming in on page 3 . Of those on page 1, @stoic and @Goosly still drop in occasionally. I didn't join until page 40 - I feel like a gatecrasher!


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## newtonbase (Jun 10, 2016)

I've had a bit of a go on Hoya. It'll take a but of getting used to but I like it. I need to try and make the 4th centre on the back rather than the front with a y2. I'll work on building the cross dedges intuitively first to get the feel of it before looking at algs. 
It feels like it should be faster than Yau.


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## Jason Green (Jun 10, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> Congrats @moralsh at coming in on page 3 . Of those on page 1, @stoic and @Goosly still drop in occasionally. I didn't join until page 40 - I feel like a gatecrasher!



What page was I on? Is there an easy way to tell? Probably 700.


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## stoic (Jun 10, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> Congrats @moralsh at coming in on page 3 . Of those on page 1, @stoic and @Goosly still drop in occasionally. I didn't join until page 40 - I feel like a gatecrasher!


Cheers for the mention, yeah I'm still about although I'm not getting any faster!
I'm mostly messing about with non-WCA puzzles these days, although I'm still trying to complete "OLL from y2"; hopefully I'll manage it before the end of the year. 
Congrats to Marcel, and good job everybody.


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## newtonbase (Jun 10, 2016)

stoic said:


> lthough I'm still trying to complete "OLL from y2";


What's that?


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## stoic (Jun 10, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> What's that?


Well, I know full OLL but I'm learning alternative algs which solve each of them from a y2 (or U2) away. 
There are 51 of them which aren't symmetrical and I need about another seven or so to complete the set.


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## newtonbase (Jun 10, 2016)

stoic said:


> Well, I know full OLL but I'm learning alternative algs which solve each of them from a y2 (or U2) away.
> There are 51 of them which aren't symmetrical and I need about another seven or so to complete the set.


Good luck with that. I'm still working on full OLL.


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## JanW (Jun 11, 2016)

@h2f I sent you a private message with a link to my BldTrainer application and some instructions for how to use it. Let me know what you think.

I shall try to finish the customization part of the application, then share it with the rest of the community as well. I only need to find out where to host the file. Any suggestions where I should upload the file to share in the Software Area? I don't have any homepages or private server space.


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## muchacho (Jun 11, 2016)

3x3 PBs:
18.681 (was 18.780 from 28-may)
20.436 (was 20.637 from 29-may)

I feel I'm progressing, but I'm making mistakes too frequently, getting a good mo100 is difficult.


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## Jason Green (Jun 11, 2016)

@JanW you could create a public shared file in Google drive, that's free. Or there are lots of similar options I think.


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## mafergut (Jun 11, 2016)

muchacho said:


> 3x3 PBs:
> 18.681 (was 18.780 from 28-may)
> 20.436 (was 20.637 from 29-may)
> 
> I feel I'm progressing, but I'm making mistakes too frequently, getting a good mo100 is difficult.


I assume those are Ao5 and Ao12, right?
My feeling is more or less the same. If I'm trying to get good singles then I'm solving at full speed and messing up is more likely so I get many bad solves that compromise the Ao100. If I'm just going for the average, trying to stay at 90% speed and focusing on lookahead then maybe I'll get less very good solves but I will be more consistent, resulting in a better average.

By the way, I have watched a lot of Weilong GTS reviews and the consensus seems to be that it's not worth it, too unstable and same or worse lockup problems than Guoguan Yuexiao due to squared off corners combined with said unstability. JR Cuber even dared to say it is an irrelevant cube and he's still using an Aolong v2 as main. Made me want to go back to one of my older cubes as I still keep having corner catches on my Yuexiao.

Also I learned a couple easy tricks for 5x5 today on the new videos by @SpeedCubeReview that made my face red for not having found them yet by myself which makes me think that I should practice a bit less (timed solves) and do more slow solving and video tutorial watching. So, if you're watching, thanks for the videos!!!


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## Jason Green (Jun 11, 2016)

JR Cuber was about the only review I saw that said that. If you look in the comments on his there are some good cubers (Cubeologist, TPC, etc) quite surprised by his review. What others reviews did you see? I don't have one but probably will someday.


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## JanW (Jun 11, 2016)

Jason Green said:


> @JanW you could create a public shared file in Google drive, that's free. Or there are lots of similar options I think.


Thanks, I was wondering about this. I've used Google drive to share files in the past, but never by posting links out in public. If it's safe to do so, then I will probably use that option.


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## newtonbase (Jun 11, 2016)

My wife has kindly agreed to do all 3 hours driving today so I'm getting some Hoya practice in. Decided to compare AO5 for just centres and cross, Hoya v Yau. Got 2/3 DNFs on Hoya so abandoned the idea.


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## h2f (Jun 11, 2016)

JanW said:


> @h2f I sent you a private message with a link to my BldTrainer application and some instructions for how to use it. Let me know what you think.
> 
> I shall try to finish the customization part of the application, then share it with the rest of the community as well. I only need to find out where to host the file. Any suggestions where I should upload the file to share in the Software Area? I don't have any homepages or private server space.



@JanW, Thany You very much. I must say it's a trainer I needed with some nice features to pracitc 3cycles. I think when you finish it it would be a very good tool to practice cycles for blinders and non-blinders.


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## mark49152 (Jun 11, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> Decided to compare AO5 for just centres and cross, Hoya v Yau. Got 2/3 DNFs on Hoya so abandoned the idea.


Yeah might be a good idea to practise untimed until you're comfortable with it. Time comparison is meaningless until then anyway.


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## JanW (Jun 11, 2016)

h2f said:


> @JanW, Thany You very much. I must say it's a trainer I needed with some nice features to pracitc 3cycles. I think when you finish it it would be a very good tool to practice cycles for blinders and non-blinders.


Thanks, glad it works and that you like it! I shall look into implementing the feature for saving your settings, then I can share it to all. I guess it's back to watching Visual Basic tutorials...

I tried it myself as well, first time in 6 months. My edge cycles average around 15 seconds, more than double the time it took me 6 months ago. I definitely need more practice.


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## mafergut (Jun 11, 2016)

Jason Green said:


> JR Cuber was about the only review I saw that said that. If you look in the comments on his there are some good cubers (Cubeologist, TPC, etc) quite surprised by his review. What others reviews did you see? I don't have one but probably will someday.


I think it was cyoubx the other I saw today that didn't like it.

By the way, also saw a video about new releases by Moyu and MoFanGe and there are some promising stuff in the works, like a GuoGuan 4x4, Cong's Design Skewb, MoFangGe 2x2, New Thunderclap 3x3, WuShuang 5x5, and of course the XMD Megas.


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## newtonbase (Jun 11, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> Yeah might be a good idea to practise untimed until you're comfortable with it. Time comparison is meaningless until then anyway.


I didn't really expect much from it but I thought it might provide a base to build on. 
I'm having trouble with one of the cross dedge cases where the pieces are at FU and DU and the cross colour of both pieces is facing forwards. Anyone have something for it?


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## mark49152 (Jun 11, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> I didn't really expect much from it but I thought it might provide a base to build on.
> I'm having trouble with one of the cross dedge cases where the pieces are at FU and DU and the cross colour of both pieces is facing forwards. Anyone have something for it?


I insert all eight pieces individually without trying to pair them up in a single insert. I usually try to insert at least 3 in the style of 3x3 cross, if i see them quickly, before moving on to Hoya inserts. I can post some tips later.


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## CLL Smooth (Jun 11, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> I didn't really expect much from it but I thought it might provide a base to build on.
> I'm having trouble with one of the cross dedge cases where the pieces are at FU and DU and the cross colour of both pieces is facing forwards. Anyone have something for it?


That is a tricky case. I go Rw' F2 Rw F2 to set-up an easy insert.


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## newtonbase (Jun 12, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> I insert all eight pieces individually without trying to pair them up in a single insert. I usually try to insert at least 3 in the style of 3x3 cross, if i see them quickly, before moving on to Hoya inserts. I can post some tips later.


All tips are appreciated. 


CLL Smooth said:


> That is a tricky case. I go Rw' F2 Rw F2 to set-up an easy insert.


That's great. Thanks.


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## mafergut (Jun 12, 2016)

Did like 30 solves this weekend (5x5) and still getting sup-4 minute solves. At least no sup-5s any more. I was expecting to be closer to 3 minutes already but my best single is 3:19.xx and the average of the session is 4:03.xx. Not sure if taking splits for F2C, L4C, etc. would help me know what my worst part is, probably every step will be my worst .


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## Chree (Jun 12, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> I didn't really expect much from it but I thought it might provide a base to build on.
> I'm having trouble with one of the cross dedge cases where the pieces are at FU and DU and the cross colour of both pieces is facing forwards. Anyone have something for it?



If I understand the case correctly (because... DU might mean DF?):
U' F R' F R [normal easy insert]

Edit: CLL Smooth's solution is much better. And I might switch. Just sometimes his might require an extra F2, or do lefty of the alg, and my alg works regardless of which side the pieces are on. 

There's a tips and tricks Playlist in my YouTube profile. Just ignore my 2nd 4x4 video, which is almost entirely useless. But the rest contain things I still use a lot today.

Edit: links to Hoya Tutorials: http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLseX6RIwmaJeVLJ1brulLEsG6gcvLHDP2

Also... I've got a few more ideas for tips and tricks in the works... but probably won't have time to record them until next weekend.


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## newtonbase (Jun 12, 2016)

Chree said:


> If I understand the case correctly (because... DU?):


Sorry. I meant FD. 
I'll check out you channel.


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## muchacho (Jun 12, 2016)

I got a 26 seconds average at the WC, so upset, almost decided to don't do the reddit.com/cubers comp... but I did it, and there I got a 19.42 average... #DontGiveUpKidsAndDontForgetToWarmUp


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## Jason Green (Jun 12, 2016)

muchacho said:


> I got a 26 seconds average at the WC, so upset, almost decided to don't do the reddit.com/cubers comp... but I did it, and there I got a 19.42 average... #DontGiveUpKidsAndDontForgetToWarmUp


I've never looked at the Reddit comp.


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## h2f (Jun 13, 2016)

So silence.... I'm better in OH with Roux than with CFOP. I've just beaten my pb ao100 made with CFOP (47.53).


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## JohnnyReggae (Jun 13, 2016)

mafergut said:


> I think it was cyoubx the other I saw today that didn't like it.
> 
> By the way, also saw a video about new releases by Moyu and MoFanGe and there are some promising stuff in the works, like a GuoGuan 4x4, Cong's Design Skewb, MoFangGe 2x2, New Thunderclap 3x3, WuShuang 5x5, and of course the XMD Megas.


I'm very interested in the GuoGuan 4x4. At the moment I still rate the GuoGuan 3x3 as one the best 3x3's around atm. Don't have a Weilong GTS yet so can't compare that. if their 3x3 is anything to go by then the 4x4 should be good. Interested to find out about the new mechanism that they will be using in their 4x4 though.


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## mafergut (Jun 13, 2016)

JohnnyReggae said:


> I'm very interested in the GuoGuan 4x4. At the moment I still rate the GuoGuan 3x3 as one the best 3x3's around atm. Don't have a Weilong GTS yet so can't compare that. if their 3x3 is anything to go by then the 4x4 should be good. Interested to find out about the new mechanism that they will be using in their 4x4 though.


yeah, I'm also curious about the new mechanism, the more so after the Cong's Design Meiyu debacle. If anybody can build a 4x4 with a direct corner cutting in the 3x3 stage that's even remotely similar to modern 3x3s that could be a game changer. Reverse, of course, will always be limited by physics (two objects cannot share the same space at the same time )


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## JohnnyReggae (Jun 13, 2016)

mafergut said:


> yeah, I'm also curious about the new mechanism, the more so after the Cong's Design Meiyu debacle. If anybody can build a 4x4 with a direct corner cutting in the 3x3 stage that's even remotely similar to modern 3x3s that could be a game changer. Reverse, of course, will always be limited by physics (two objects cannot share the same space at the same time )


Personally I'd like some speed and looseness like that of the GuanSu (I am quite impressed with the GuanSu. For such a cheap cube it performs really well and is far faster than any other 4x4 I've tried), but more stability with, as you say, better corner cutting.

On the MeiYu... I bought one of the first batch before it was announced that there was a "problem". To be honest I find it the best 4x4 I have used and use it as my main atm. I'd be using the GuanSu if it wasn't for the popping (actually ... launching out of the puzzle at speed in all sorts of directions) of the internal pieces during solves.


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## JanW (Jun 13, 2016)

I finally got my BldTrainer finished and shared. Check it out and let me know what you think:
https://www.speedsolving.com/forum/threads/bldtrainer-new-application-for-practicing-3-cycles.61303/

I'm very much a noob programmer, so I hope there aren't any odd bugs I did not anticipate...


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## One Wheel (Jun 14, 2016)

I've been reading on here about how much people like their CB G4s, so I made a swap for one (This one). It's certainly a pain to assemble, but wow! The complaint seems to be that it's catchy new, but as best I can tell this one is virtually new (original stickers are near-mint) and I'd say it's just a touch better than my well broken-in (~1,000-1,200 solves) Aosu right now. There is a little catching, but not bad. I've only timed a couple of solves, and the times were virtually identical to what I've been getting with my Aosu, but without timing splits it really feels like reduction stage (using Yau) is much faster on the G4, while 3x3 stage is much slower. On one solve I think I glanced at the timer as it crossed 1:00 when I finished reduction and ended up with a 1:59.75. Most of the time I think I finish reduction around 1:20-1:30 and end up averaging about 2:10. Double parity takes time, but even so f2l, OLL parity, OLL, PLL parity, and PLL shouldn't take nearly a minute. Not sure why this might be.


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## mafergut (Jun 14, 2016)

@One Wheel, I'm not sure what to tell you. I use a stickerless G4 as my main and I think that its strong point is the 3x3 stage because of the flexibility and very good corner cutting. The small size helps too for the 3x3 stage. I have not timed my splits but I can try if you think it can help you.

@JohnnyReggae, interesting what you say about the Meiyu. Now I'm curious to try one out but, of course, I'm not going to risk buying one and being bad.


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## JohnnyReggae (Jun 14, 2016)

mafergut said:


> @JohnnyReggae, interesting what you say about the Meiyu. Now I'm curious to try one out but, of course, I'm not going to risk buying one and being bad.


Not sure how the 2nd batch compares with the 1st, some reviews have said there is very little difference. I've found the MeiYu to be better than both versions of the Aosu. My mini Aosu pops internal pieces quite frequently, just like the Guansu.


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## mafergut (Jun 14, 2016)

I found the "Goals" thread and decided to post some goals there to motivate me. Some are more challenging than others. I aso put a link to my goals post in my signature. Let's see how many I achieved by the end of Sept.


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## muchacho (Jun 14, 2016)

ok, I've posted mine there too, it's good to have some goals. Same deadline, but I can't focus on many events.

2x2: sub-6.5 mo100
3x3: sub-20 mo100
3x3OH: sub-45 ao12

I was going to write sub-21 on 3x3 but let's be too optimistic


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## mafergut (Jun 14, 2016)

muchacho said:


> ok, I've posted mine there too, it's good to have some goals. Same deadline, but I can't focus on many events.
> 
> 2x2: sub-6.5 mo100
> 3x3: sub-20 mo100
> ...


Well, I really hope I can achieve most of mine. Probably the sub-18 Ao50 at 3x3 and the sub-1min single and sub-1:10 Ao5 at 4x4 are the most challenging. The goals for 5x5 should be easy, if we believe the 2x factor vs 4x4. And the one about buying a 6x6 I'm sure I'll achieve it 

By the way, good luck with your goals. I'm sure you can do it. I was tempted to put an OH goal myself too but that would be a stretch. I'll leave OH and BLD for Christmas goals


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## CLL Smooth (Jun 14, 2016)

Went to get coffee this morning and did some OH while I waited. Saw a 3 move orange cross pretty quickly on one scramble and decided to go for it (I'm not even remotely color neutral). Got to LL at 18.xy when the barista had to come ask me my order again. Did the wrong COLL while I looked up and told him the order again. Finished with a 31.xy after he walked off and I think he thought I was really annoyed. "It's just that it was orange cross." I don't think he understood.


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## earth2dan (Jun 14, 2016)

My Yuxin 6x6 and 4x4 arrived today! I haven't had much time to play with them yet but here's my "out of the box" impressions.

The 6x6 is great. I haven't even done a solve yet and it's an instant main over my AoShi. It's smaller and has a tighter, more stable feeling than the AoShi. It feels very similar to the Yuxin 5x5, which is a feat for an even numbered cube. The colours are very nice. Compared to the 5x5 the green and red are both darker, which is a huge improvement. The yellow is lighter, and the orange is less fluorescent. Blue is the same. It's a very nice looking puzzle with excellent contrast. There will be no problems with recognition here. It's overlubed from the factory, so I might take it apart to clean it and re-lube it, but this is a really nice puzzle. No regrets.

The 4x4 had me disappointed before I even touched it. I guess this one slipped passed quality control. Three of the pieces on the white face appear to have had some blue dye spill over on them. It's not the end of the world, but it definitely tarnishes the aesthetic of an otherwise really nice looking puzzle. Colours are the same as the 6x6, so very nice. This one feels like it has zero lube out of the box, so it feels kind of scratchy. Outer layers feel great, but there is some noticeable catching on the middle layers. The catching is reminiscent of my G4 before I started breaking it in. I'm not too worried about the catching yet, as I've seen that go away with break in. Though, I might contact Cubicle about this one. I'm a little OCD and those blemishes on the white face are going to drive me crazy.

Also, got the newer Gans 356 Master. It's still in the box though. I'll play with it tonight.

Edit: Disregard my complaints about the dye on the 4x4. A little elbow grease and I was able to clean it up. It looks great now


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## mafergut (Jun 14, 2016)

earth2dan said:


> My Yuxin 6x6 and 4x4 arrived today! I haven't had much time to play with them yet but here's my "out of the box" impressions.
> 
> The 6x6 is great. I haven't even done a solve yet and it's an instant main over my AoShi. It's smaller and has a tighter, more stable feeling than the AoShi. [...]
> The 4x4 [...] Outer layers feel great, but there is some noticeable catching on the middle layers. The catching is reminiscent of my G4 before I started breaking it in. [...]



So, in summary. I have to order the 6x6 and the 4x4 is no better than the CB G4 so it is a pass on this one. Or am I missing anything?


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## mark49152 (Jun 14, 2016)

I decided I would not order the Yuxin 6x6 because I don't care enough about 6x6... but my will was too weak. It should arrive next week.


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## mafergut (Jun 14, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> I decided I would not order the Yuxin 6x6 because I don't care enough about 6x6... but my will was too weak. It should arrive next week.


In my case I don't have a 6x6 yet so, even if it was just as good as an Aoshi I would go for it for the non-candy colours stickerless option and for the cheaper price. I don't care much about 6x6 yet but I don't think there are other options. The Shengshou is even cheaper but nobody recommends that.


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## earth2dan (Jun 14, 2016)

mafergut said:


> So, in summary. I have to order the 6x6 and the 4x4 is no better than the CB G4 so it is a pass on this one. Or am I missing anything?


I just finished a 6x6 solve and while executing OLL parity alg a piece of the core mechanism popped out of place and it took a good 10 minutes to get it fixed without disassembling the puzzle. To soon for me to say if this is a possible defect or just bad luck on my first solve. Going to do a few more solves and see how it goes. That's never happened with my AoShi...

_Edit:_ I think I was just being sloppy. No problems with the last couple solves. My only issue is that it's been too heavily lubed. I'm afraid I will have to take it apart and clean it.

Too soon to tell on the 4x4. It badly needs some break in and probably a little lube before I can pass judgement. I've done a couple solves and it feels really good, like it could be better than the G4. I've been solving the G4 a lot lately, but I still think my AoSu is my best 4x4.


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## h2f (Jun 14, 2016)

I've broken my Aoshi and I've decided not to buy new Yuxin. Instead I should buy 7x7 but I'm waiting if Yuxin will release one. 

I did 100 solves today and I've finished it with ao100 24.99.


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## newtonbase (Jun 14, 2016)

The fact that the Yuxin 6x6 is similar to their 5x5 is very tempting but I'll resist. I'll never hit soft cutoff on 5x5 so going higher order is a waste of time and money. I own the Shengshou if I want to play.


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## mafergut (Jun 14, 2016)

h2f said:


> I've broken my Aoshi and I've decided not to buy new Yuxin. Instead I should buy 7x7 but I'm waiting if Yuxin will release one.
> 
> I did 100 solves today and I've finished it with ao100 24.99.


Broken? How? 

Sent from my Nexus 4 with Tapatalk


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## h2f (Jun 14, 2016)

I meant "broke in". Sorry for not adding "in" to "broken".


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## muchacho (Jun 15, 2016)

Wow, "LSE skip", cube was solved after EO, I don't know the numbers but probability must be low 

20698 15-jun-2016 8:33:44 00:23.096 R2 L2 U R2 U' R2 U2 B2 U2 F2 U L' B U' F' U F2 R D' U B L'

I'm trying to reconstruct.

*edit1:*
Wow, now I'm really amazed... by how inefficient can I be 
z
M2 R' Uw' U M L' U L U M2 U2 L' U L
R' U M' U R2 U' M R' U' R M2 R' U R R U R' M U2 M' Rw U Rw'
U U2 R U2 R' U' R U R' U' R U R' U' R U' R'
U' M U' M U' M' U M'

*edit2:*
So only 4*4*360=5760? I don't remember to have seen so many skips of that kind...


TDM said:


> Corners (AUF): 4
> Centres: 4
> EO: 2^5 = 32
> EP: 6!/2 = 360
> ...


https://www.speedsolving.com/forum/threads/probability-thread.20384/page-38#post-995934


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## h2f (Jun 15, 2016)

Awsome @muchacho, David. Quite hard scramble even if there's so many pairs (too many). My first attempt was with this pair (31.xx) second with your block but another solution - I havent watched your FB - 26.xx. After reconstruction I've seen the SB was very short but during speedsolve I had a lot AUF's. 
R2 L2 U R2 U' R2 U2 B2 U2 F2 U L' B U' F' U F2 R D' U B L'
z R U F2 u M2 F'
U' R U r U' M U2 r U R'
x' R' D R U' R' D' R U x
U2 M' U' M
U M U2 M U M' U2 M2 U2 M'

38 stm (with cancelation 37)


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## Shaky Hands (Jun 15, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> The fact that the Yuxin 6x6 is similar to their 5x5 is very tempting but I'll resist. I'll never hit soft cutoff on 5x5 so going higher order is a waste of time and money. I own the Shengshou if I want to play.



Decided to have a look at my PB's vs UK soft cut for higher-order cubes:

4x4 PB 1:35.xx vs 1:30.00 soft cut: 5.56% over
5x5 PB 3:15.xx vs 2:30.00 soft cut: 30.00% over
6x6 PB 6:56.xx vs 5:00.00 soft cut: 38.67% over
7x7 PB 10:13.xx vs 7:00.00 soft cut: 45.95% over

I was surprised how similar the percentage gaps are that I would need to close between 5x5 and 6x6.

Maybe one day...


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## One Wheel (Jun 15, 2016)

Shaky Hands said:


> Decided to have a look at my PB's vs UK soft cut for higher-order cubes



Are these just average, or is there a uniform standard for time limits in the UK? I've looked at comps in the US and found, for example, 4x4 soft cuts anywhere from 2:00 all the way down to 1:00. US Nationals has a 4x4 soft cut of 1:10.


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## mark49152 (Jun 15, 2016)

One Wheel said:


> Are these just average, or is there a uniform standard for time limits in the UK? I've looked at comps in the US and found, for example, 4x4 soft cuts anywhere from 2:00 all the way down to 1:00. US Nationals has a 4x4 soft cut of 1:10.


These are standard in the UK and have been for years. Euros has tough cuts - 1:00 for 4x4 and 2:00 for 5x5. I guess with the large number of entrants they need to whittle it down early.


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## Shaky Hands (Jun 15, 2016)

@One Wheel, I suspect there will be more difference in cutoffs in the US as they will have a wider variety of delegates involved, whereas our delegates cover the whole of the UK, as well as the Republic of Ireland.

There are some events where there have been differing cutoffs in the past year (Clock is one) but for the main cubes, as @mark49152 said, they have remained the same for quite a while now.

I think the only event that has a completely universal cutoff is FMC (80 moves.)


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## mark49152 (Jun 15, 2016)

Another thing to note is that the UK is fairly small and with a few exceptions it's pretty much the same core group of cubers that travel to all the comps. That would make it seem more of an inconsistency for cutoffs to vary. It's not like there's a northern group and a southern group doing their own things, and it might even seem unfair for a comp in Manchester to set an easier cutoff than the previous comp in London, etc.


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## One Wheel (Jun 15, 2016)

Having standard cutoffs in a relatively small geographic area makes sense.



mark49152 said:


> These are standard in the UK and have been for years. Euros has tough cuts - 1:00 for 4x4 and 2:00 for 5x5. I guess with the large number of entrants they need to whittle it down early.



I can understand the logic of having cutoffs, and I don't mean any offense to anybody but those are RIDICULOUS! The first official sub-1:00 4x4 single wasn't until 2005, average in 2006, and the same years for sub-2:00 5x5. That means that just in order to finish an official Ao5 in Europe in those events now and person would have been the best in the world 10 years ago, or am I misunderstanding that? I realize that hardware can make a big difference, but this is solving a puzzle, not a drag race or a moon landing. It seems like it should be possible to offer local competitions with easier time limits, and if you do well in those you can qualify to go to larger regional and national competitions, which would offer a broader array of events, a busier schedule, and therefore stricter time limits. Ah, well, I guess I'm not going to change it, but it is pretty silly if you ask me.


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## mark49152 (Jun 15, 2016)

One Wheel said:


> I can understand the logic of having cutoffs, and I don't mean any offense to anybody but those are RIDICULOUS!


Not really. If you look at the psych sheets, of the 316 people registered for 4x4 who already have an official average, 222 were under 1 minute. So roughly 70% are capable of making the cut. That's not unreasonable. The numbers for 5x5 are 212 and 176.

I would rather have Euros open to all but with challenging cuts, than be ineligible to go at all on the basis of qualifiers or current records. I'm not going this time but I'd like to be able to in future.


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## One Wheel (Jun 15, 2016)

So the 1 minute cutoff is for the European Championship, not all competitions in Europe? That makes a lot more sense. That's pretty much what I was suggesting, except for the idea of having to qualify to register.


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## Shaky Hands (Jun 16, 2016)

Made some notes on cutoffs between Euros and UK/Ireland. Hope this helps. Always subject to change.



Spoiler



2z2
- soft (Euro Championships) - none
- hard (Euro Championships) - 1:00
- soft (UK/Ireland) - 0:45 (?)
- hard (UK/Ireland) - 2:30
3x3
- soft (Euro Championships) - none
- hard (Euro Championships) - 5:00
- soft (UK/Ireland) - 5:00
- hard (UK/Ireland) - 10:00
4x4
- soft (Euro Championships) - 1:00
- hard (Euro Championships) - 3:00
- soft (UK/Ireland) - 1:30
- hard (UK/Ireland) - 5:00
5x5
- soft (Euro Championships) - 2:00
- hard (Euro Championships) - 4:00
- soft (UK/Ireland) - 2:30
- hard (UK/Ireland) - 5:00
6x6
- soft (Euro Championships) - 3:45
- hard (Euro Championships) - 7:00
- soft (UK/Ireland) - 5:00
- hard (UK/Ireland) - 10:00
7x7
- soft (Euro Championships) - 5:30
- hard (Euro Championships) - 10:00
- soft (UK/Ireland) - 7:00
- hard (UK/Ireland) - 10:00
3x3 OH
- soft (Euro Championships) - 0:45
- hard (Euro Championships) - 2:00
- soft (UK/Ireland) - 1:00 (somtimes 1:30)
- hard (UK/Ireland) - 4:00
3x3 BLD
- (Euro Championships) - 10:00 for 3 attempts
- (UK/Ireland) - 10:00 for 3 attempts (sometimes 12:00 for 3 attempts)
3x3 Feet
- soft (Euro Championships) - 2:00
- hard (Euro Championships) - 3:00
- soft (UK/Ireland) - can't remember
- hard (UK/Ireland) - can't remember
3x3 FMC
- (Euro Championships) - 80 moves, max 1:00:00
- (UK/Ireland) - 80 moves, max 1:00:00
Megaminx
- soft (Euro Championships) - 1:40
- hard (Euro Championships) - 3:00
- soft (UK/Ireland) - 3:00
- hard (UK/Ireland) - 7:00
Pyraminx
- soft (Euro Championships) - none
- hard (Euro Championships) - 1:00
- soft (UK/Ireland) - 0:45
- hard (UK/Ireland) - 2:30
SQ-1
- soft (Euro Championships) - 0:45
- hard (Euro Championships) - 1:30
- soft (UK/Ireland) - 1:30
- hard (UK/Ireland) - 3:00
Clock
- soft (Euro Championships) - 0:15
- hard (Euro Championships) - 1:00
- soft (UK/Ireland) - 1:00 (sometimes 0:30)
- hard (UK/Ireland) - 2:00
Skewb
- soft (Euro Championships) - none
- hard (Euro Championships) - 1:00
- soft (UK/Ireland) - 1:00
- hard (UK/Ireland) - 2:30
4x4 BLD
- (Euro Championships) - 30:00 for 3 attempts
- (UK/Ireland) - can't remember
5x5 BLD
- (Euro Championships) - 1:00:00 for 3 attempts
- (UK/Ireland) - can't remember
3x3 MBLD
- (Euro Championships) - 10:00 per cube for 2-6 cubes, otherwise 1:00:00
- (UK/Ireland) - 10:00 per cube for 2-6 cubes, otherwise 1:00:00


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## mark49152 (Jun 16, 2016)

One Wheel said:


> So the 1 minute cutoff is for the European Championship, not all competitions in Europe? That makes a lot more sense. That's pretty much what I was suggesting, except for the idea of having to qualify to register.


Yes, I was talking about the European Championships, and most of the competitors there would presumably be more experienced and committed (and thus faster) than average anyway. Some countries in Europe do generally have tougher cutoffs than the UK though - for example, I think Poland has harsh cutoffs.


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## One Wheel (Jun 16, 2016)

I retract my comment. Having a very harsh cutoff for a national championship (or in this case a continental one) is perfectly reasonable. I'd still like to figure out how to relax cutoffs for local competitions, but it seems most of them aren't THAT bad.


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## h2f (Jun 16, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> Some countries in Europe do generally have tougher cutoffs than the UK though - for example, I think Poland has harsh cutoffs.



It's up of competition but generally you're right. For example in 3 weeks competition in Warsaw soft cutoff in 4x4 is 1 minute. The reason is it's one day comp for 50 people with 5 events with 2 rounds each - BTW I was registered for it due there's gonna to be Zemdegs there, but I wasnt accepted because I was late few houres. There have been 70 registrations and 20 were rejected (among them Pleskowicz).

On the other hand in two weeks there's competition with no soft cutoffs! It's two day competition with 9 events for 60 people in a big venue. BTW I've registered - finally I have chance to make averages in 4x4 ad 5x5.

In next week comp - a kind of league - there are nice cutoffs: 10 sec in 2x2, 12 in skewb, 10 in pyra, 35 in OH and 14 in 3bld (but I've noticed it wasnt strict - everyone did his/her 3 attepmts).


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## newtonbase (Jun 16, 2016)

h2f said:


> It's up of competition but generally you're right. For example in 3 weeks competition in Warsaw soft cutoff in 4x4 is 1 minute. The reason is it's one day comp for 50 people with 5 events with 2 rounds each - BTW I was registered for it due there's gonna to be Zemdegs there, but I wasnt accepted because I was late few houres. There have been 70 registrations and 20 were rejected (among them Pleskowicz).
> 
> On the other hand in two weeks there's competition with no soft cutoffs! It's two day competition with 9 events for 60 people in a big venue. BTW I've registered - finally I have chance to make averages in 4x4 ad 5x5.
> 
> In next week comp - a kind of league - there are nice cutoffs: 10 sec in 2x2, 12 in skewb, 10 in pyra, 35 in OH and 14 in 3bld (but I've noticed it wasnt strict - everyone did his/her 3 attepmts).


That's nice and generous for blind. It's usually 10 mins here which I find is a bit of a push.


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## JanW (Jun 16, 2016)

Haha, within 1 second of PB with a messed up EOLine...

U2 F' D2 B2 U' L' D R B2 D' L' B2 R D' F' U' B L B R U' L U2 R' F'

F' B D B' D2 L2 D // messed up EOLine (last move should have been D')
L' U L U' L2 // 2x3 block
U' R2 U (R U R' U') (R U R' U') (R U R' U') // F2L 3
R' U2 R U R' U' R // F2L 4
M2 U2 M2 // fix bottom cross
R U R' U R U2 R' U' R U2 R' U' R U' R' // 2gll (sune - U' - Anti-sune)
U2 // AUF

5 move 2x3 blocks like that are quite rare. Shame to waste it on a solve where I already made a mistake.


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## h2f (Jun 16, 2016)

@JanW, I know you will have another chance... 

I was thinking about Hoya on 4x4. I realized that my weaknes in Yau is making first 3 dedges of cross. Next parts of the solve are ok. The second thought was that with Hoya I can still use half centers method and making dedges is much easier. Another con is that one can start from every color not only from white or yellow. So I've started practice Hoya on 4x4. Best time is 1:20.xx which is quite good and around my averages with Yau. It's promising start but I think I will have to do tons of solves to get used Hoya on 4x4. Or maybe not as far as I practice Hoya on 5x5 and 6x6.


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## One Wheel (Jun 16, 2016)

One Wheel said:


> without timing splits it really feels like reduction stage (using Yau) is much faster on the G4, while 3x3 stage is much slower.



So my off the cuff observation doesn't stand up. I did 12 solves with each cube, switching back and forth at random, and these are the results:
Cyclone Boys G4
Reduction Ao12: 1:23.99
3x3 stage (including parity and fixing misplaced centers) Ao12: 45.69
Whole solve Ao12: 2:10.24

Moyu Aosu
Reduction Ao12: 1:24.64
3x3 stage (including parity and fixing misplaced centers) Ao12: 49.62
Whole solve Ao12: 2:15.00

My sample size is small, but it does seem that times are more consistent, as well as faster, with the G4. Standard Deviation for total solve time was 16.99 seconds for the Aosu vs. 12.59 seconds for the G4. 62.94% of solve time was reduction with the Aosu, vs. 64.18% with the G4. I think there's a lot of room for improvement when I resticker the G4 with brighter shades, because right now my recognition is noticeably worse than with the Aosu.


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## mafergut (Jun 16, 2016)

@JanW, yeah, you will have another chance when you are least expecting it. Yesterday it happened to me as well  I was doing some 3x3 and was not fully focused, all of a sudden during a good solve I got a PLL skip. Got a 12.98, 1.1 seconds slower than my PB. If I had been focused I could have beaten it. Maybe next time...

@h2f, I tried Hoya the other day and I didn't find myself confortable with it. Maybe I didn't try hard enough but, for now, I'm staying with Yau. I have finally got used to 1st 3 edges on M slice and I think now I'm a tiny bit faster at it than with E slice pairing.

Also, my 1st Goal for end of September already achieved. First sub-3 5x5 solve  PLL skip, though. Going to achieve the 2nd by ordering a Yuxin 6x6 after watching Feliks video and comments about it (he cannot tell which one is best Yuxin or Moyu Aoshi so, good enough for me ) Also wanting the XMD Galaxy Megaminx like... already!!!

@One Wheel The G4 is very nice. I think that's a good decision. I'm fine with the stickerless shades but if you need to change sticker shades please do it. It will help you get a bit faster.


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## earth2dan (Jun 16, 2016)

Just smashed my 6x6 PB with my new stickerless Yuxin. 5:07.80. Previous PB was 5:49.76, and even that was a lucky solve because the next closest time was over 6:00

I love this 6x6  Though it's worth noting that it's forced me to focus more on accurate turning. It is relatively forgiving, but if you're sloppy you can get some nasty lockups. Reminiscent of MoYu AoChuang lockups, if anyone remembers those :/ I am encountering this less and less as I get used to the puzzle.

If you don't have a decent 6x6, this is a no brainer. Get the Yuxin  I like it so much more than the AoShi. It's only a couple mm smaller, but it FEELS much smaller in the hands than an AoShi, I also really prefer the sharper edges of the Yuxin to the rounded, bubly feeling of the MoYu. And Yuxin nailed the colour scheme on the stickerless version. It rivals any of my stickerless Cyclone Boys puzzles, and that's saying something.



mafergut said:


> I tried Hoya the other day and I didn't find myself confortable with it. Maybe I didn't try hard enough but, for now, I'm staying with Yau.


Ditto. I tried and it just wasn't working for me, I'll stick with Yau. Though, I kind of like Hoya 5x5 and may put more effort into that in the future.

@One Wheel I'm enjoying the G4 more and more. While I still think my AoSu is a little better, I think that might just be because it was my first good 4x4 and has had lots of breaking in. Regardless, the stickerless shades on the G4 keep me coming back for more, it's so nice . I still need to lube and break in my new Yuxin 4x4, but after a dozen or so solves I'm thinking it could have real potential. That'll put me at somewhat of a stalemate... like 3x3 where I can't pick a favourite :/


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## mark49152 (Jun 16, 2016)

h2f said:


> It's promising start but I think I will have to do tons of solves to get used Hoya on 4x4.


Nice start, but you're right, like any new method it takes some time to get comfortable with it. Trying it for a couple of hours and giving up isn't a good evaluation. 

I have been meaning to make a tips video for Hoya but have been too busy. Maybe next week.

I wish I had more time for cubing .


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## One Wheel (Jun 17, 2016)

mafergut said:


> [USER=35029]@One Wheel The G4 is very nice. I think that's a good decision. I'm fine with the stickerless shades but if you need to change sticker shades please do it. It will help you get a bit faster.[/USER]


I like my stickerless Aosu, but in general I think I prefer the look of the black stickered puzzles, and I like having the extra grip of the edge of the sticker. I have already ordered new stickers, which TheCubicle got out the door in about 5 1/2 hours without rush shipping.


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## h2f (Jun 17, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> Nice start, but you're right, like any new method it takes some time to get comfortable with it. Trying it for a couple of hours and giving up isn't a good evaluation.
> 
> I have been meaning to make a tips video for Hoya but have been too busy. Maybe next week.
> 
> I wish I had more time for cubing .



Ok. I give 4x4 Hoya a serious try. If it'll not give a good progress - for example 1:30 ao5 in a week, I'm back to Yau.


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## muchacho (Jun 17, 2016)

Impatient my friend is, yes.



Spoiler



Do, or do not. There is no try.


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## mafergut (Jun 17, 2016)

muchacho said:


> Impatient my friend is, yes.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


A lot like Yoda you sound


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## SpeedCubeReview (Jun 17, 2016)

h2f said:


> @JanW, I know you will have another chance...
> 
> I was thinking about Hoya on 4x4. I realized that my weaknes in Yau is making first 3 dedges of cross. Next parts of the solve are ok. The second thought was that with Hoya I can still use half centers method and making dedges is much easier. Another con is that one can start from every color not only from white or yellow. So I've started practice Hoya on 4x4. Best time is 1:20.xx which is quite good and around my averages with Yau. It's promising start but I think I will have to do tons of solves to get used Hoya on 4x4. Or maybe not as far as I practice Hoya on 5x5 and 6x6.



I switched ot HoYa. It is a few more moves it feels like but my look ahead is so much better when pairing the cross edges. I did Yau until my first comp when I didn't make the cut off and someone else there who was much faster than me suggested I try it.


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## h2f (Jun 17, 2016)

SpeedCubeReview said:


> I switched ot HoYa. It is a few more moves it feels like but my look ahead is so much better when pairing the cross edges. I did Yau until my first comp when I didn't make the cut off and someone else there who was much faster than me suggested I try it.



It looks like it's a really good method. 



muchacho said:


> Impatient my friend is, yes.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



My goal is fullfield after 34 timed solves - ao5 1:27.87.


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## mafergut (Jun 17, 2016)

h2f said:


> It looks like it's a really good method.
> 
> My goal is fullfield after 34 timed solves - ao5 1:27.87.


And how fast are you with Yau? This might make me reconsider...


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## mark49152 (Jun 17, 2016)

h2f said:


> My goal is fullfield after 34 timed solves - ao5 1:27.87.


Nice job! You'll be sub-1:20 within a week .


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## h2f (Jun 17, 2016)

mafergut said:


> And how fast are you with Yau? This might make me reconsider...


Sub 1:20 ao100 with single sub 1 min and ao5 1:10.00 - but it was done when I practiced 4x4 which I dont for few months.

Edit: 1:15.98 single just before.


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## mafergut (Jun 17, 2016)

h2f said:


> Sub 1:20 ao100 with single sub 1 min and ao5 1:10.00 - but it was done when I practiced 4x4 which I dont for few months.


Then as soon as you get faster with Hoya I might give it a second try... oh, yeah, do or don't not try


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## h2f (Jun 17, 2016)

Yeah, it's like I'm around 10 seconds slower than with Yau. So - it was fast, but as I mentioned before - I did Hoya on 5x5 and 6x6. The only thing I had to figure out on 4x4 was a good method for 3rd and 4th center, but I do it with half center method starting with white half. Looks like it works but 10% are still bad ceneters order.


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## Shaky Hands (Jun 17, 2016)

earth2dan said:


> Just smashed my 6x6 PB with my new stickerless Yuxin. 5:07.80. Previous PB was 5:49.76, and even that was a lucky solve because the next closest time was over 6:00



Wow that's an incredible improvement. Congratulations!


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## newtonbase (Jun 17, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> I have been meaning to make a tips video for Hoya but have been too busy. Maybe next week.


Please do. Your tip about placing single cross pieces in the bottom layer helped a lot. 


mark49152 said:


> I wish I had more time for cubing .


Ditto.


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## mafergut (Jun 17, 2016)

Shaky Hands said:


> Wow that's an incredible improvement. Congratulations!


Yeah, it is. It is so impressive that I ordered my Yuxin 6x6 this morning after reading it 
Congrats @earth2dan, by the way!
I was practising 5x5 right now. It was a good solve, felt like probably my second sub-3 min even without any skips this time. Took a peek at the timer at the beginning of Y-perm, got nervous. Final time: 3:00.03


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## earth2dan (Jun 17, 2016)

Thanks guys. I just tried a Hoya 6x6 solve, 6:13.56 on my first try. I felt good, and more methodical than regular reduction. I fumbled a bit building the cross edges so I'm sure I have lots of room there to improve.

@mafergut I'm sure you're going to like the Yuxin 6x6. I'm really happy with it. You ordered the stickerless I hope 



mafergut said:


> Took a peek at the timer at the beginning of Y-perm, got nervous. Final time: 3:00.03


 I curse myself every time I do this. It always seems to do more harm than good to peek at the timer. Nice job though! You're improving really fast at 5x5. At this rate, it won't be long before you pass me  I still haven't gotten my global average down under 3:00, but avg for the last 100 is 2:58.16, so I'm getting close.


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## mafergut (Jun 17, 2016)

earth2dan said:


> Thanks guys. I just tried a Hoya 6x6 solve, 6:13.56 on my first try. I felt good, and more methodical than regular reduction. I fumbled a bit building the cross edges so I'm sure I have lots of room there to improve.
> 
> @mafergut I'm sure you're going to like the Yuxin 6x6. I'm really happy with it. You ordered the stickerless I hope
> 
> I curse myself every time I do this. It always seems to do more harm than good to peek at the timer. Nice job though! You're improving really fast at 5x5. At this rate, it won't be long before you pass me  I still haven't gotten my global average down under 3:00, but avg for the last 100 is 2:58.16, so I'm getting close.



Wow! That's nice just for a first try at Hoya. Not sure if I should try Yau or Hoya (or both) for higher order cubes. Right now I just do reduction at 5x5. Of course I got the stickerless version of the 6x6.

For some time I configured csTimer to not display the time just because of this but I just can't help it at times  Regarding improvement, well, this 3 min solve and yesterday's 2:54 were just lucky solves with easy L4E, my current average is more like 4 minutes so a lot to improve until I get even close to you, much less pass you. My splits in this solve seem to be around 26 sec F2C, 1 min total to finish centers and beyond that I'm not quite sure. Maybe around another 1 min for F8E, 30 sec L4E and another 30 for 3x3 stage.

EDIT: Finished an Ao50, got 3:59.24 so yeah, more like 4min atm.


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## earth2dan (Jun 17, 2016)

mafergut said:


> Regarding improvement, well, this 3 min solve and yesterday's 2:54 were just lucky solves with easy L4E, my current average is more like 4 minutes so a lot to improve until I get even close to you, much less pass you. My splits in this solve seem to be around 26 sec F2C, 1 min total to finish centers and beyond that I'm not quite sure. Maybe around another 1 min for F8E, 30 sec L4E and another 30 for 3x3 stage.
> 
> EDIT: Finished an Ao50, got 3:59.24 so yeah, more like 4min atm.


For perspective, it took me over a year to get my 5x5 times down to 3:00. I found progress came in bursts, where I would hit a wall and be stuck for a while and then something would click and suddenly I'd be 10-15 seconds faster.

Just recorded my splits for a random Ao5 using regular reduction. This was a good 2:45 average with pretty consistent times, so I think it's a good watermark for where I'm at currently.
Centers: 52.77
F8E: 55.24
L4E: 28.66
3x3: 28.65


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## megagoune (Jun 17, 2016)

Hi there,
I thought i would present myself in here because I fit the age requirement 
I solved a cube for the first time at the end of the 80s. I had found at home a cube and a book on how to solve it. That was super fun, but then, I left the cube alone until 1995 when a classmate in university brought his cube in class. That was the first time I raced with someone. I was using some kind of keyhole and "lots of look" last layer method (orient edges, permute edges, permute corners, orient corners). I remember solving at around 60-70s.
My interest disappeared again until around 2008 when the 7x7 was released. When I saw that, I had to have one. This is also when I saw that a bunch of types of twisty puzzles existed. I started collecting and solving all sorts of cubes.
But I was always a little bothered when people were asking "how fast can you solve?". My answer was "I don't try to be fast, I just like solving". So last year, I decided to get "fast". I set my goal to 30s.

Here I am, 18 months later, I use CFOP with full OLL and PLL and I averaged around 25s. I am pretty happy with this, but I want to continue to improve.

I find this forum full of really good info and I thought I might finally say something


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## mafergut (Jun 17, 2016)

@megagoune, Welcome to the forum and to this thread specifically!

@earth2dan, those splits match very closely what I more or less figured I did in my best solve of the day so it looks like I am not terrible at any step and just need to keep gradually improving. Do you solve the cross edges first? I usually do that but it limits the options during the next 4E as, e.g., I cannot do R2 (or F2 / L2) to quickly flip and edge to pair pieces as it destroys the cross, so I end up doing an edge flip instead, which costs some seconds. Maybe I should just do whatever edges I see and do the cross after finishing edge pairing. Regarding improvement, as you very well know, the further you get the harder it is to improve. My 1st timed solve and 1st recorded PB single (9:15.xx) happened on Jan 31st. Getting down to 4 minutes avg might have taken me just 4.5 months but getting down to 3 minutes is not gonna be easy, I'm sure.


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## earth2dan (Jun 17, 2016)

Welcome aboard @megagoune! I've been maintaining the Racing to sub-20 thread for some time now. We get 12 scrambles each week and the objective is to "graduate" from that thread and move on to the next benchmark. You graduate when you get 3 consecutive rounds with a sub-20 average. We're currently on round 504. I was around 25s as well when I started in that thread. You're more than welcome to participate. I usually close out the round on Fridays, but I won't get to that for several hours yet because I still need to do my average for the week.



mafergut said:


> Do you solve the cross edges first? I usually do that but it limits the options during the next 4E as, e.g., I cannot do R2 (or F2 / L2) to quickly flip and edge to pair pieces as it destroys the cross, so I end up doing an edge flip instead, which costs some seconds. Maybe I should just do whatever edges I see and do the cross after finishing edge pairing.


I don't build the cross, but I do usually build the white edges first, then the yellow. That's not a hard rule though, If I see a nice looking nearly complete edge, I'll take it. I don't focus on placing all the completed edges on the same face as I build them either, I just swap the completed edge out with whatever edge has the pieces I'm building next. I tried building my cross first, but I found it too costly. It only takes a few seconds to do the cross at 3x3 stage, and I'm sure I was losing more than that by trying to build it first and maintain it.


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## Chree (Jun 17, 2016)

SpeedCubeReview said:


> I switched ot HoYa. It is a few more moves it feels like but my look ahead is so much better when pairing the cross edges. I did Yau until my first comp when I didn't make the cut off and someone else there who was much faster than me suggested I try it.



I don't know if you saw it, but I challenged the idea that Hoya is less efficient than Yau on the Hoya thread.
https://www.speedsolving.com/forum/threads/hoya-discussion.45461/page-24#post-1174672
Not definitive, and I never did get a sub60 movecount Mo12... but... since the movecount advantage of Yau is negligible, we can bask in the payoff of lookahead, guilt free.



h2f said:


> It looks like it's a really good method.
> 
> My goal is fullfield after 34 timed solves - ao5 1:27.87.



Yeeess.... YEEEESSSSS... JOIN US!!!



mafergut said:


> Wow! That's nice just for a first try at Hoya. Not sure if I should try Yau or Hoya (or both) for higher order cubes. Right now I just do reduction at 5x5. Of course I got the stickerless version of the 6x6.



Joooooooiiiiinnn uuuusssssss!!!



earth2dan said:


> Thanks guys. I just tried a Hoya 6x6 solve, 6:13.56 on my first try. I felt good, and more methodical than regular reduction. I fumbled a bit building the cross edges so I'm sure I have lots of room there to improve.



I'm gonna start sounding like a broken record, but I'm actually really happy to see more people giving Hoya a shot on larger cubes.


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## Jason Green (Jun 18, 2016)

Welcome @megagoune!


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## newtonbase (Jun 18, 2016)

Hello @megagoune. Welcome to the thread.
@Chree I've been watching your Hoya edges videos over and over since you linked here. They've been a big help and I'm hooked on the method. I just need to speed up a bit. Thanks for your help.


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## muchacho (Jun 18, 2016)

Oh, a good day at last, some PBs.

3x3
Mo100: 22.459 (was 22.965 from 30-may)

3x3OH
Ao5: 48.069
Ao12: 53.308


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## h2f (Jun 18, 2016)

muchacho said:


> Oh, a good day at last, some PBs.
> 
> 3x3
> Mo100: 22.459 (was 22.965 from 30-may)
> ...



And good for me. PB OH ao5 36.56 and ao12 40.xx

Edit. And finally sub30 OH single: 27.63. Fullstep with sune.


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## newtonbase (Jun 18, 2016)

muchacho said:


> Oh, a good day at last, some PBs.
> 
> 3x3
> Mo100: 22.459 (was 22.965 from 30-may)
> ...





h2f said:


> And good for me. PB OH ao5 36.56 and ao12 40.xx
> 
> Edit. And finally sub30 OH single: 27.63. Fullstep with sune.


Well done on the PBs guys.


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## JanW (Jun 18, 2016)

Yes, Nice PBs muchacho and h2f!

ZZ is driving me crazy. I'm up to 750 timed solves so far. I would say I see a lot more 22-23 second solves than I did with the previous method, but also a lot more 40 second solves. It is so incredibly uneven. I have plenty of sub 30 Ao12s, but in the same session there can be sup 36 Ao12s as well. For example the 50 solves this morning, Ao12 for last 12 solves: 27.87, Ao50: 32.55. The first 38 solves were horrible.

It's kind of strange. Sometimes I get "in the zone" and get almost nothing but sub 30 solves. At other times, can be 10 minutes earlier/later, it seems impossible to get anything sub 33. It must be some kind of mental thing. When solves are not going as well as I'd want them to, I make more mistakes. Not sure how to deal with this.

If you start a session and notice it is not going well. Perhaps you are not not very concentrated and times are worse than you would expect. Do you just push through, or take a break, or do something else to regain focus?


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## mafergut (Jun 18, 2016)

JanW said:


> Yes, Nice PBs muchacho and h2f!
> 
> ZZ is driving me crazy. I'm up to 750 timed solves so far. I would say I see a lot more 22-23 second solves than I did with the previous method, but also a lot more 40 second solves. It is so incredibly uneven. I have plenty of sub 30 Ao12s, but in the same session there can be sup 36 Ao12s as well. For example the 50 solves this morning, Ao12 for last 12 solves: 27.87, Ao50: 32.55. The first 38 solves were horrible.
> 
> ...


More or less the same happens to me with CFOP (my only method). There are days when seemingly I can't get in range of sub-20 solves, there are others when I don't seem to need any warmup at all. I normally just keep trying even if the session is a pile of trash.


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## mark49152 (Jun 18, 2016)

@JanW - these days if a session is going badly I just abandon it and go do a different puzzle. Often I find with the other puzzle I'm having a good day


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## JanW (Jun 18, 2016)

Glad I'm not the only one who has bad days. 

I'm sure I had bad days with old method as well. But I think ZZ is less forgiving. Make a mistake with EOLine to find badly oriented edges later, and this easily adds 10 seconds to the solve. Also, doing F2L without rotation, I find I'm more likely to accidentally pull out already solved pairs. ZZ is a very fun technique to solve with, but I think it requires a higher level of concentration. At least for now, when I still have so few solves under the belt.


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## newtonbase (Jun 18, 2016)

Some of the orange stickers on my Weilong GTS got sun bleached. That's the reason my original Weilong was retired. Took less than 30 mins in cloudy weather. Didn't know they were that sensitive.


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## JanW (Jun 18, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> Some of the orange stickers on my Weilong GTS got sun bleached. That's the reason my original Weilong was retired. Took less than 30 mins in cloudy weather. Didn't know they were that sensitive.


Did you try lubing with sunscreen?


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## megagoune (Jun 18, 2016)

earth2dan said:


> Welcome aboard @megagoune! I've been maintaining the Racing to sub-20 thread for some time now. We get 12 scrambles each week and the objective is to "graduate" from that thread and move on to the next benchmark. You graduate when you get 3 consecutive rounds with a sub-20 average. We're currently on round 504. I was around 25s as well when I started in that thread. You're more than welcome to participate. I usually close out the round on Fridays, but I won't get to that for several hours yet because I still need to do my average for the week.



Thanks for the suggestion. I think I will try the race next week, I did not have much time yesterday.

I see that a lot of you talk about Mo100. I cannot do that many solves in a row. If I time myself, after 30 solves my times start to get worse. Do you guys practice endurance  ? Anyone feels like me that the focus disappear quite fast?


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## mark49152 (Jun 18, 2016)

JanW said:


> Also, doing F2L without rotation, I find I'm more likely to accidentally pull out already solved pairs.


It's a couple of years since I messed with ZZ and Roux, but personally I think rotationless is overrated, at least for 2H. The problem isn't really rotations anyway, it's regrips, and sometimes regrips are required even without rotations. Sometimes regrips can happen quickly and smoothly, sometimes not. 

Personally (with CFOP) I like to have rotations/regrips mid way through a case rather than between cases. I like to have multiple ways to start an F2L case so that I never have to do an ad-hoc rotation first, and then if a rotation is involved mid way through, at least it is smooth and quick because it's part of an algorithm that has had plenty of practice.


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## Jason Green (Jun 18, 2016)

@JanW usually I push through for a while at least. Unless I just do a few solves and realize I'm not in the mood at all. The biggest issue affecting me I feel is being tired during week practice. But I think the practice can still help. It feels like swinging a weighted ball bat, and then when I practice well rested I can see it paid off more. To me that explains why my official averages have been close to my home averages, because I'm well rested and warmed up.


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## newtonbase (Jun 18, 2016)

Can't say I ever get a chance to get tired but I'm hopeful for this Thursday. My presiding officer called me up about working the referendum and warned me how quiet the polling station can be. 
- _You'll have to bring something to keep you busy 
- No problem _


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## moralsh (Jun 18, 2016)

(Barely) sub 20 at last on 3x3 and total disaster in blind. More to come tomorrow


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## mark49152 (Jun 19, 2016)

moralsh said:


> (Barely) sub 20 at last on 3x3 and total disaster in blind. More to come tomorrow


Hey you got quite a few green blobs there!

http://m.cubecomps.com/competitions/1538/competitors/4

And congrats on the sub-20 3x3 

Edit: I always find cubing vids more impressive from the cuber's viewpoint:


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## h2f (Jun 19, 2016)

moralsh said:


> (Barely) sub 20 at last on 3x3 and total disaster in blind. More to come tomorrow


Not a total - 1st in 5bld. Congrats all achivments.


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## newtonbase (Jun 19, 2016)

h2f said:


> Not a total - 1st in 5bld. Congrats all achivments.


Well done @moralsh


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## bubbagrub (Jun 19, 2016)

Hello oldies! I've lurked on this thread for a long while, and know a few of you IRL, but haven't really posted much here. I've not been to a competition for a while, and it turns out that no competition means not much motivation to practice. So I had a few months of not really practising cubing at all. I did the FMC Europe competition which was a total, demoralising disaster (3 DNFs) which also set me back a bit. Anyway, there's a competition coming up in few weeks (Macclesfield) which I plan to go to, so now I've got back into practising. I've been focusing on a few things: 4x4, 6x6 (which I've never competed in) and lookahead on 3x3 (lots of slow solving). Seems to be going pretty well, although the lack of practice means by 3x3 times are incredibly inconsistent. Surprisingly, lookahead on 3x3 seems to have helped with lookahead for edge pairing on 4x4, which is handy...

So, anyway, my plan is to be a bit more active here (if I can keep up with the flood of posts!) as a way of helping me to keep motivated.

@moralsh: sub-20 3x3 average and 5BLD success are super-impressive! Nice job!


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## mark49152 (Jun 19, 2016)

Welcome back Ben @bubbagrub !

I see you and Mark @newtonbase are registered for 4BLD. How's it going?


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## bubbagrub (Jun 19, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> Welcome back Ben @bubbagrub !



Thanks Mark!



mark49152 said:


> I see you and Mark @newtonbase are registered for 4BLD. How's it going?



Heh! Honestly, I've given up on 4BLD for now. I don't even remember registering for it. I guess there's still time; maybe I should have another go at it...


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## h2f (Jun 19, 2016)

Hi @bubbagrub - I had 3 DNF in last november in FMC too.  

I got first sub20 ao5 with Roux: 19:78 [Time List: (17.20), (26.84), 19.81, 20.57, 18.95]. I'm happy it take me not long to get it. Last 5 days I was doing only slow solves with whole FB planned and carefull transition from FB to SB. It paid off.


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## mark49152 (Jun 19, 2016)

bubbagrub said:


> Heh! Honestly, I've given up on 4BLD for now. I don't even remember registering for it. I guess there's still time; maybe I should have another go at it...


Go for it


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## bubbagrub (Jun 19, 2016)

h2f said:


> Hi @bubbagrub - I had 3 DNF in last november in FMC too.



Ah -- then you feel my pain! It was particularly dispiriting for me because I'd done *so* much practice -- I did about 50 FMC solves in the few months before the competition, meaning I ended up feeling like I'd totally wasted those 50 hours of my life. But I'm over it now... 



h2f said:


> I got first sub20 ao5 with Roux: 19:78 [Time List: (17.20), (26.84), 19.81, 20.57, 18.95]. I'm happy it take me not long to get it. Last 5 days I was doing only slow solves with whole FB planned and carefull transition from FB to SB. It paid off.



Roux still seems like magic to me. I was watching an Alex Lau ao5 this morning and although I roughly understand what the steps are, it just looks like a blur, and the idea of planning both FB and SB during a few seconds of inspection seems super-human. Actually even just planning FB seems almost impossible to me, in just 15 seconds. So getting a sub-20 ao5 in Roux is extremely impressive! It's interesting how consistently "slow solving" seems to be the right thing to do. Learning to walk before we run, I guess.


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## newtonbase (Jun 19, 2016)

bubbagrub said:


> Hello oldies! I've lurked on this thread for a long while, and know a few of you IRL, but haven't really posted much here. I've not been to a competition for a while, and it turns out that no competition means not much motivation to practice. So I had a few months of not really practising cubing at all. I did the FMC Europe competition which was a total, demoralising disaster (3 DNFs) which also set me back a bit. Anyway, there's a competition coming up in few weeks (Macclesfield) which I plan to go to, so now I've got back into practising. I've been focusing on a few things: 4x4, 6x6 (which I've never competed in) and lookahead on 3x3 (lots of slow solving). Seems to be going pretty well, although the lack of practice means by 3x3 times are incredibly inconsistent. Surprisingly, lookahead on 3x3 seems to have helped with lookahead for edge pairing on 4x4, which is handy...
> 
> So, anyway, my plan is to be a bit more active here (if I can keep up with the flood of posts!) as a way of helping me to keep motivated.
> 
> @moralsh: sub-20 3x3 average and 5BLD success are super-impressive! Nice job!


Hello again. We met at the UKs. Looks like there will be a few oldies at Macclesfield. 


mark49152 said:


> Welcome back Ben @bubbagrub !
> 
> I see you and Mark @newtonbase are registered for 4BLD. How's it going?


It isn't I'm afraid. I was looking at it but I don't have time to learn that and to improve my 4x4 which is my current target. If that goes well and I do OK at 3BLD/multi I'll make it my next target after Macclesfield.


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## mark49152 (Jun 19, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> It isn't I'm afraid. I was looking at it but I don't have time to learn that and to improve my 4x4 which is my current target. If that goes well and I do OK at 3BLD/multi I'll make it my next target after Macclesfield.


A pint says you can learn it by the time polling closes


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## h2f (Jun 19, 2016)

bubbagrub said:


> the idea of planning both FB and SB during a few seconds of inspection seems super-human.



This is really inhuman. Most solvers plan only FB. It's like xcross.


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## newtonbase (Jun 19, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> A pint says you can learn it by the time polling closes


Ha ha. Ok, if I have internet access I'll do it. Otherwise I'm going to become a Hoya master, and maybe finally get my head around comms (interchange or insertion first?).


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## JanW (Jun 19, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> Ha ha. Ok, if I have internet access I'll do it. Otherwise I'm going to become a Hoya master, and maybe finally get my head around comms (interchange or insertion first?).


Easy rule, the insertion always goes into the slot where it is supposed to end up at the end of the 3-cycle. If that slot is not yet in the target you are inserting to, then it's interchange first.

Got my first sub-20 ZZ solve! 19.78. Again 1-look last layer with sune from the back. I think this is already 3rd time I set a new PB with that case. Good thing I learned to recognize it.


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## mark49152 (Jun 19, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> Ha ha. Ok, if I have internet access I'll do it. Otherwise I'm going to become a Hoya master, and maybe finally get my head around comms (interchange or insertion first?).


Vote Hoya!


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## newtonbase (Jun 19, 2016)

JanW said:


> Easy rule, the insertion always goes into the slot where it is supposed to end up at the end of the 3-cycle. If that slot is not yet in the target you are inserting to, then it's interchange first.


It doesn't matter how many videos I watch. It's so much easier for me to learn with simple written rules and I've never found anything good. Thanks @JanW


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## bubbagrub (Jun 19, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> Hello again. We met at the UKs. Looks like there will be a few oldies at Macclesfield.



Yes! I remember you. Yep it'll be nice to see everyone in Macclesfield!


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## mafergut (Jun 19, 2016)

Good luck to you all going to that comp!

Nice 5x5 session today. Another of those little jumps that happen at times. Almost all sub 4min (worst solve 4:05.xx). Got Ao50 down from barely sub-4 to 3:46.00. Also PB Ao5 (3:27.50) and Ao12 (3:30.98). No sub-3 singles, though.

Ao12: 3:31.30, 3:28.79, 3:22.40, 3:14.37, 3:41.71, (3:58.11), 3:29.85, 3:22.05, 3:34.94, 3:54.45, (3:06.02), 3:29.92 = 3:30.98 (first 5 solves make the PB Ao5)


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## JanW (Jun 20, 2016)

I noticed there was a cubing comp in Finland this weekend. 2 competitors in 3BLD, 1:35 and 5:06. I would have had a real chance to make the podium if I had went.  Maybe I should keep my eyes open for coming competitions.

Instead I've been practicing at home. Great session today. Ao100 29.475. Improved by 1.5 seconds from previous best. The main change was that I switched back to the GTS from the Aolong V2, which I used for the last couple of hundred solves. I think I have a main.


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## moralsh (Jun 20, 2016)

Thank you guys, really  I'll try to sumarize the weekend a bit:

This was my 15th Competition, my 5th this year and only my second one outside the Madrid area, as always lots of fun, lots of work and little sleep, let's go with the results 

Megaminx: first thing in the morning, cut off was 3:30 which is like once every five solves or so to me, I managed 2 solves under that (first, 3:18, and last one, 3:26) and a 3:35 average which I was very happy with

Pyraminx: Bad, as always, I guess I won't improve magically unless I pracitce 

6x6: Improved 9 seconds my single (5:22) and 20 seconds my average (5:31), still a lot left to improve here, but very good results

7x7: only 1 solve below cutoff and a pop on the worst solve, no PBs here

4x4: 1:21 average, I couldn't get PBs here but I'm happy with the first and last solves (1:23 and 1:21) both with double parity. I almost made it to the final

2x2: Meh,

4BLD: first one was a 10:30 DNF, second one was a 10:50 DNF in which I managed to recover from a center pop and last one was a 12 something DNF in which I tried for over a minute to remember some of the corners and couldn't. All 3 where around 10 pieces off IIRC. Ok times, bad results

Skewb: got close to both PBs but didn't manage any of them

3x3: at last a sub 20 average, all solves were done turning slow focusing on lookahead and it worked. still getting used to my new GTS which I bought at the comp.

3BLD: first one was off by a twisted corner and the buffer which I have memorized but forgot to execute, second one was off by a flipped edge and the buffer, which I didn't notice and 3rd one I slipped while performing a Y perm in the last corners and messed it, was ok until then. Bad luck, I guess

(Sunday)

5BLD: Managed to lower 2 and a half minutes my official PB becoming the second spaniard to do more than one 5BLD, I'm now top 3 in my country, very happy with all of this. Second attempt I tried to rush it but stopped when I noticed I had been doing the X centers memo on the + centers.

3x3OH: beat my PB by 1 second, but I should have done it by a few more, Happy with the 31, though.

3x3MBLD: 2/7 DNF one was of by a R U' R' insertion and the rest weren't very bad, a 0 got silver and nobody got bronze, So I could have got a medal with a smaller attempt, but felt it was like cheating and didn't do it.

3x3 Semi: I was en route for a better average but last cube ended with a left handed N perm and spoiled it

2x2 Final: another meh.

Now I need to rest a bit and will continue with blind training in a couple of weeks.


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## mafergut (Jun 20, 2016)

Nice summary and some good results in there, Raúl @moralsh 
Congrats specifically on that 5BLD and sub-20 3x3 average


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## MarcelP (Jun 20, 2016)

moralsh said:


> 3x3: at last a sub 20 average, all solves were done turning slow focusing on lookahead and it worked.



Good job! Nothing else matters.. LOL.. And what was the average?


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## moralsh (Jun 20, 2016)

MarcelP said:


> Good job! Nothing else matters.. LOL.. And what was the average?


 19.94 just 0.22 improvement from my previous one. I forgot to tell you that the first solve ended with a U perm (which I do with Ms) and I dropped the cube with an M misalignment which would have been a DNF if I hadn't noticed and fixed it, it could have been an 18

(or a DNF )

@mafergut, thanks!


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## JanW (Jun 20, 2016)

First solve of the day, first ever last layer skip!

00:18.859 - B2 L2 F2 R' B2 R' F2 U2 B2 U F2 L' D L B' D2 F D' L2 U2 F2 L2 D' B' D2

x2 // inspection
R' D R' U D' F' R' D // EOLine
U' R' U R' U L' U2 L U2 R U R' // First pair
R' U R U' R' U R // Second pair
L U L' U2 L U' L // Third pair
U2 L2 U2 L U L' U L2 // Fourth pair
U2 // Auf

43 moves, 2.28 tps

That first F2L pair was horrible. If I don't see anything immediate, I usually put some cross edge in place while looking. Here I did just that, and pushed the red/blue corner out of the way to not have it on the bottom. Then I noticed it ended up next to the red blue edge and for some reason moved them to the back to separate them instead of the corner where it was supposed to be. But hey, new all time PB single, not only ZZ PB, so I shouldn't complain.


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## MarcelP (Jun 20, 2016)

JanW said:


> That first F2L pair was horrible.



LOL, in some FMC solve they do (almost) complete F2L in that many moves.. Still nice solve overall!


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## mark49152 (Jun 20, 2016)

JanW said:


> That first F2L pair was horrible.


I had to give it a try...
U' R2 U' R U R' U' R U R'


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## JanW (Jun 20, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> I had to give it a try...
> U' R2 U' R U R' U' R U R'


Yup, that's the better way to insert it. Or U' R' U R' U' R' U2 R2 U R'. Surprisingly both only 2 moves shorter than my detour to the back.

Edit: found 8 move solution. R U' L' U' L R U R2


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## mark49152 (Jun 20, 2016)

JanW said:


> Edit: found 8 move solution. R U' L' U' L R U R2


I'd go for one of the <R,U> ones. Regrip would be slower than the saved moves.


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## MarcelP (Jun 21, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> I had to give it a try...
> U' R2 U' R U R' U' R U R'


Or
U' R2 U R' U' L U' L' // 1st
R2 U R2 U' R // 2nd
U2 R U' R' //3rd
U L' U L U2 L' U L // 4th

Unfortunatly no LL skip.. LOL...never had one before. Ps this was my speedsolve solution. That's why I like ZZ. You can be very efficient. I am always in awe when I watch movies from Phil Yu on F2L on ZZ. My problem is just that freaking EOLine.


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## JanW (Jun 21, 2016)

Very nice solution, @MarcelP! I like that about ZZ too. When I have a good solve, it's really good, because F2L is so efficient. The other nice thing is more frequent skips in last layer. With a complete LL skip happening about once every 2000 solves, they actually should happen every now and then.

EOLine is... well... haven't quite made up my mind on this. At first, when I spent a lot of time planning them, it wasn't much of a problem. Now I'm trying to plan them faster, which leads to more mistakes. A mistake at the EOLine stage is very costly. I haven't timed my inspections yet. Often it is well under 15 seconds, but other times 15 seconds is far from enough, so I'm still not ready to go to a comp with ZZ.


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## mark49152 (Jun 21, 2016)

Another insane video from Kevin. I can barely follow what he's doing, let alone imagine ever turning that fast. I am looking forward to getting my Yuxin 6x6 now


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## mafergut (Jun 21, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> Another insane video from Kevin. I can barely follow what he's doing, let alone imagine ever turning that fast. I am looking forward to getting my Yuxin 6x6 now


Yeah, I saw the video a couple days ago and it's amazing. Feliks and Kevin, as always, are beating each other on video  First Kevin came up with a 1:39.xx with the Yuxin 6x6, then Feliks came up with a 1:36.xx, now Kevin retalliates with an incredible Mo3. I really can't follow much of what they do either but there are some PLLs in those videos that, oh my! They are three times as fast as I am... on the 3x3  Anyway, I'm also looking forward to mine arriving in the mail. Let's see which one they use in their next comp, this or the Aoshi.


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## MarcelP (Jun 21, 2016)

I have watched a few Yuxin 6x6 unboxings. It looks really nice. But I know, when I order one, I will probably solve it two times and place it on a shelve. So I will skip this one  Big cubes is really not my thing.


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## mafergut (Jun 21, 2016)

MarcelP said:


> I have watched a few Yuxin 6x6 unboxings. It looks really nice. But I know, when I order one, I will probably solve it two times and place it on a shelve. So I will skip this one  Big cubes is really not my thing.


That's what I thought for more than 2 years when I was solving 3x3 exclusively (and a bit of 2x2) until I said to myself, well, 4x4 is not that big. I might give it a try. And I tried, and I liked it. Then, after I started to get somewhat decent times I thought, well, 5x5 is not much bigger, and it's an odd layered cube so no issues like parity. I might give it a try. And here I am, trying to get decent at 5x5 and with a 6x6 on its way home


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## JanW (Jun 21, 2016)

I never got into big cubes either. Probably because the 4x4 I got turned out to be very unpleasant to solve due to sharp corners. I just placed an order for a Cyclone Boys G4, maybe this will change my attitude towards bigger cubes.


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## newtonbase (Jun 21, 2016)

JanW said:


> maybe this will change my attitude towards bigger cubes.


If it doesn't then you might as well give up. It's a really nice cube.


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## SenorJuan (Jun 21, 2016)

Well it's the middle of summer, the longest day, so I thought I would make an inappropriate post.
I've been sorting through my fathers stuff in the loft, and opened some boxes of photography gear. There's some lightbulbs in boxes. A couple of red ones for darkroom use, and a couple of very ordinary looking clear pearl ones.
A look at the box tells me they are Philips Photoflood, with an ridiculous rating of 275 Watts. Though dad's are ancient 1970's ones, they are still available today:
http://www.lamps2udirect.com/photog...-photoflood-photographic-bba-light-bulb/67070
I suspect they would probably melt most lamp fittings, and wouldn't have a long life, either, but it's good to see that such excessive products still exist in these days of CFL's.
And yes, I tried one briefly, mackerel was it bright, glad I didn't look directly at it, black spots on your retina aren't good for lookahead.
But come winter and dark evenings, I just might have a play with one.

Footnote: My 200 Watt one I bought last autumn made it through winter, doing a grand job, but it expired in March, so I'm planning ahead, I can't cube in dingy light.


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## JohnnyReggae (Jun 21, 2016)

SenorJuan said:


> Footnote: My 200 Watt one I bought last autumn made it through winter, doing a grand job, but it expired in March, so I'm planning ahead, I can't cube in dingy light.


I struggle with poor light as well, so have 2 extra lights at my desk where I cube at night. Makes a huge difference,


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## h2f (Jun 21, 2016)

I got Fisher Cube from Moyu. Nice puzzle. After scrambling it I had to reassamble cause I couldnt figure out which pieces are edges which corners. After it I could solve it normally - with comms (3bld algs always work), CFOP and Roux. Roux is the hardest due to centers twists during LSE.


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## muchacho (Jun 21, 2016)

So I had a mirror cube that I had never scrambled, I'm trying to solve it now for the first time, F2B took me like 15 minutes, wish me luck for the rest.


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## h2f (Jun 21, 2016)

yeah, good luck. I cant imagine solving it with Roux.


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## muchacho (Jun 21, 2016)

Uff, just done it, I won't try anytime soon :confused:


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## newtonbase (Jun 21, 2016)

muchacho said:


> Uff, just done it, I won't try anytime soon :confused:


You are brave trying Roux. I use a beginner's method. I have a lovely pink Yuxin. 
Master pyramorphix for you guys next. That's a real challenge.


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## mark49152 (Jun 21, 2016)

MarcelP said:


> I have watched a few Yuxin 6x6 unboxings. It looks really nice. But I know, when I order one, I will probably solve it two times and place it on a shelve. So I will skip this one  Big cubes is really not my thing.


That's the way I feel about square1, mega and pyra... and i used to feel that way about 5x5 and BLD . I don't do much 6x6 but I do enjoy it and plan to continue competing, and maybe this is the cube to get me hooked and spending a month on it.


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## muchacho (Jun 21, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> You are brave trying Roux. I use a beginner's method. I have a lovely pink Yuxin.
> Master pyramorphix for you guys next. That's a real challenge.



I have that pink Yuxin also, now I have to hide it from my niece, she likes to scramble all cubes on sight... she scrambled this pink a couple of times, but only 2 or 3 moves, it looked scary but I was able to revert those moves.


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## mafergut (Jun 21, 2016)

@muchacho, @h2f, I have some shapemods like those (mirror, mastermorphix and the crazy fisher / yileng) and yeah, they can be fun to solve once but I get bored easily. Just one solve a month or so is enough for me  I'm considering buying a curvy copter, though, as it seems to be an entirely different puzzle. I also have a Rex cube (the dino with centers and petals) and I enjoy solving it because it's different to a 3x3.


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## newtonbase (Jun 21, 2016)

mafergut said:


> @muchacho, @h2f, I have some shapemods like those (mirror, mastermorphix and the crazy fisher / yileng) and yeah, they can be fun to solve once but I get bored easily. Just one solve a month or so is enough for me  I'm considering buying a curvy copter, though, as it seems to be an entirely different puzzle. I also have a Rex cube (the dino with centers and petals) and I enjoy solving it because it's different to a 3x3.


I bought a curvy copter but haven't dared scramble it. It doesn't make sense.


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## mafergut (Jun 21, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> I bought a curvy copter but haven't dared scramble it. It doesn't make sense.


Well, you can always start just scrambling it with 180º turns, without making any "jumbling" moves.

Is it a Lan Lan or Meffert's? and does it turn well?


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## h2f (Jun 21, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> You are brave trying Roux. I use a beginner's method. I have a lovely pink Yuxin.
> Master pyramorphix for you guys next. That's a real challenge.


Yes, mastermorphix is a big challange for me - I cant figure out what is what in this cube. I hope, I'll do it in few days. 



mafergut said:


> @muchacho, @h2f, I have some shapemods like those (mirror, mastermorphix and the crazy fisher / yileng) and yeah, they can be fun to solve once but I get bored easily. Just one solve a month or so is enough for me  I'm considering buying a curvy copter, though, as it seems to be an entirely different puzzle. I also have a Rex cube (the dino with centers and petals) and I enjoy solving it because it's different to a 3x3.



Yes, I enjoy shape mode cube as well. They seem hard at first look. I'm gonna buy few shapemods soon - one per month or two.


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## newtonbase (Jun 21, 2016)

mafergut said:


> Is it a Lan Lan or Meffert's? and does it turn well?


It turns very well but I don't know the brand. I'll see if I can find out. 



h2f said:


> Yes, mastermorphix is a big challange for me - I cant figure out what is what in this cube. I hope, I'll do it in few days.


Identifying the pieces is just the start. Orientation is a nightmare and even when you know what you are doing its really easy to make a tiny slip and you are back to the start. It's frustrating but rewarding (like blind).


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## Logiqx (Jun 21, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> Another insane video from Kevin. I can barely follow what he's doing, let alone imagine ever turning that fast. I am looking forward to getting my Yuxin 6x6 now



I presume you saw the comment at the bottom of one of his previous videos...


> I've only done about 25 solves so far. Since this puzzle is in tight contention with MoYu's 6x6 for best on the market, I'll get up a full comparison video when I've put in around ~1000 solves and tensioned it and put traxxis in it. Stay tuned.



I think I've done about 40 solves on 6x6. I can't begin to imagine doing 1000 solves!


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## One Wheel (Jun 21, 2016)

Logiqx said:


> I think I've done about 40 solves on 6x6. I can't begin to imagine doing 1000 solves!



I have close to 1000 timed 4x4 solves and 80 timed 6x6 solves. Thing is that his 6x6 solves seem to run 20-30 seconds faster than my 4x4 solves. My 922 4x4 solves over the last 3 1/2 months have a cumulative solve time of 39:18:07.2. If he averages 2 minutes to solve, plus 1 minute to scramble, which are probably generous figures, he could practice less than an hour a day and finish 1000 solves in 2 months. Or he could just go for 2 days straight and pound out 50 consecutive hours of 6x6 solving . Not that I would recommend that, but I know there are records for most 3x3 solves in 24 hours and such, maybe someday I'll do a 12 hour 4x4 marathon or something, and get my name in the record books for about 12.5 hours until somebody decent copies me.


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## mark49152 (Jun 21, 2016)

Logiqx said:


> I think I've done about 40 solves on 6x6. I can't begin to imagine doing 1000 solves!


Yeah it would take me forever. I have 141 timed 6x6 solves at overall average 6:50 (now around 6:20) which adds up to 16 hours. I am frankly shocked that I have spent 16 hours of my life solving 6x6 and am determined never to get to 1000 solves no matter how good the Yuxin is. 

For Kevin that would be about 600 solves, ignoring scrambling and inspection.


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## h2f (Jun 22, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> Yeah it would take me forever. I have 141 timed 6x6 solves at overall average 6:50 (now around 6:20) which adds up to 16 hours. I am frankly shocked that I have spent 16 hours of my life solving 6x6 and am determined never to get to 1000 solves no matter how good the Yuxin is.
> 
> For Kevin that would be about 600 solves, ignoring scrambling and inspection.



Add me - 149 solves.


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## mafergut (Jun 22, 2016)

No need to count 6x6 solves. We all have thousands and thousands of 3x3 solves under our belt. At more or less 2 solves a minute (including scrambling), that's thousands and thousands of minutes. Hundreds of hours, for sure.


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## bubbagrub (Jun 22, 2016)

My plan is to do 6x6 for the first time in competition in a few weeks. So far, I've done 6 timed solves, and maybe a similar number (ever) of untimed solves. I got a PB single today: 8:43. So, at least I'd be below the hard-cut (assuming it's 10:00), but probably won't get a mean. The idea of doing 100 or even 1000 6x6 solves seems unimaginable to me at the moment...

I have two unrelated questions which maybe this group will have useful views on:

I've only got about 10 OLLs left to learn, and I'm finding myself biasing in favour of algorithms that are very similar to ones I already know. This makes them very quick to learn, but sometimes leads to me confusing algorithms with each other. What do you guys prefer -- algorithms that are very distinctive, or ones that are easy to learn, making use of common triggers, etc.?
In solving 4x4 (using Yau), I often find myself with what I think of as a Z-perm for centres -- in other words, having solved the red, green, orange, blue centres, they end up in the order red, orange, green, blue, meaning I have to do two swaps (e.g., orange with red and then red with green) to get them in the right order. Anyone know if there's an easier way to deal with that?
Thanks!


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## JohnnyReggae (Jun 22, 2016)

mafergut said:


> @muchacho, @h2f, I have some shapemods like those (mirror, mastermorphix and the crazy fisher / yileng) and yeah, they can be fun to solve once but I get bored easily. Just one solve a month or so is enough for me  I'm considering buying a curvy copter, though, as it seems to be an entirely different puzzle. I also have a Rex cube (the dino with centers and petals) and I enjoy solving it because it's different to a 3x3.


I wasn't much interested in any shape shifting puzzles, however after getting a Fisher I've since moved onto a bunch including some cubiods and some other shapeshifters. I don't solve them often but do enjoy the challenge of solving them. I'm also in the process of modding a few cubes, currently busy with some barrel mods. Next is going to be a 3x5x5 and 2x4x4


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## bubbagrub (Jun 22, 2016)

JohnnyReggae said:


> I wasn't much interested in any shape shifting puzzles, however after getting a Fisher I've since moved onto a bunch including some cubiods and some other shapeshifters. I don't solve them often but do enjoy the challenge of solving them. I'm also in the process of modding a few cubes, currently busy with some barrel mods. Next is going to be a 3x5x5 and 2x4x4



I've also found shape-shifting puzzles really fun. The 4x4x6 is probably my favourite. But there are two that have defeated me: 2x4x6 and 3x4x5. In the case of the latter, I can get pretty close to solve but always end up with some kind of parity that I don't know how to solve. With the 2x4x6 I just can't make any progress at all, really. Totally bewildering...


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## JohnnyReggae (Jun 22, 2016)

bubbagrub said:


> I've also found shape-shifting puzzles really fun. The 4x4x6 is probably my favourite. But there are two that have defeated me: 2x4x6 and 3x4x5. In the case of the latter, I can get pretty close to solve but always end up with some kind of parity that I don't know how to solve. With the 2x4x6 I just can't make any progress at all, really. Totally bewildering...


Don't have those cuboids ... yet  ... but they will be in my collection ...


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## One Wheel (Jun 22, 2016)

bubbagrub said:


> In solving 4x4 (using Yau), I often find myself with what I think of as a Z-perm for centres -- in other words, having solved the red, green, orange, blue centres, they end up in the order red, orange, green, blue, meaning I have to do two swaps (e.g., orange with red and then red with green) to get them in the right order. Anyone know if there's an easier way to deal with that?
> Thanks!



I have trouble sometimes getting centers in the right order, but it's usually easy enough to watch out that you don't have opposite centers adjacent to one another. As long as opposite centers are opposite, the centers will either be in the correct place or you will need to swap any two opposite centers. With cross on the left that can easily be done with Rw2 U2 D2 Rw2 U2 D2. Of course probably the best plan is to know your color scheme well enough it's automatic, but for me opposites are all that I can keep track of automatically.


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## megagoune (Jun 22, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> You are brave trying Roux. I use a beginner's method. I have a lovely pink Yuxin.
> Master pyramorphix for you guys next. That's a real challenge.


I really like the megamorphix. That's fun to solve. I had some weird situations when solving. To help me figure them out, I re-stickered an old 4x4 as a super-cube.
That way, I could try to see what problems were due to the "super-cube" part or the "shape-shifting" part.


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## moralsh (Jun 22, 2016)

bubbagrub said:


> My plan is to do 6x6 for the first time in competition in a few weeks. So far, I've done 6 timed solves, and maybe a similar number (ever) of untimed solves. I got a PB single today: 8:43. So, at least I'd be below the hard-cut (assuming it's 10:00), but probably won't get a mean. The idea of doing 100 or even 1000 6x6 solves seems unimaginable to me at the moment...



I may have between 100 and 150 6x6 solves (10 of them official) and as every category, it becomes easier to practice as the times go down. I remember when 3 7x7 solves took me an hour, now it's down to almost a third of it. Back to 6x6, after my last 2 comps I think I'm comfortably sub 6 and pushing for sub 5 single, I'd like to have it by my next comp.

I'd say what I always say about getting faster on 6x6, focus first on being somehow optimal on centers and after achieving that, focus on turning faster. 



bubbagrub said:


> I have two unrelated questions which maybe this group will have useful views on:
> 
> I've only got about 10 OLLs left to learn, and I'm finding myself biasing in favour of algorithms that are very similar to ones I already know. This makes them very quick to learn, but sometimes leads to me confusing algorithms with each other. What do you guys prefer -- algorithms that are very distinctive, or ones that are easy to learn, making use of common triggers, etc.?
> In solving 4x4 (using Yau), I often find myself with what I think of as a Z-perm for centres -- in other words, having solved the red, green, orange, blue centres, they end up in the order red, orange, green, blue, meaning I have to do two swaps (e.g., orange with red and then red with green) to get them in the right order. Anyone know if there's an easier way to deal with that?
> Thanks!



1. I'd say learn whatever is easier to learn, you'll replace some OLL algs later and it's only confusing the first few solves.
2. Swapping red with blue is way easier in that case  I've never had to do a double swap.


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## earth2dan (Jun 22, 2016)

Oh man... I just popped a center piece on my Yuxin 6x6 during F2L. I was at 4:32 when it popped. I had no parity so If not for that pop it would likely have bee sub 5  

I just tightened each face 1/4 turn, hopefully that'll help.


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## bubbagrub (Jun 22, 2016)

moralsh said:


> I'd say what I always say about getting faster on 6x6, focus first on being somehow optimal on centers and after achieving that, focus on turning faster.


OK -- that sounds like good advice. 



moralsh said:


> 1. I'd say learn whatever is easier to learn, you'll replace some OLL algs later and it's only confusing the first few solves.
> 2. Swapping red with blue is way easier in that case  I've never had to do a double swap.



:-O I have a horrible feeling you're right. For a couple of years I've found cases where I've had to do two swaps, but maybe if I just stopped and thought I'd find it could always be done with just one swap. Blimey...


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## JanW (Jun 22, 2016)

Despite my 4x4 not being the most comfortable to solve, I've been playing around with it a bit the last few days. Thanks to some recent propaganda in this thread I looked up and started using Hoya. My impression so far: I might end up liking 4x4.


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## Chree (Jun 22, 2016)

JanW said:


> Despite my 4x4 not being the most comfortable to solve, I've been playing around with it a bit the last few days. Thanks to some recent propaganda in this thread I looked up and started using Hoya. My impression so far: I might end up liking 4x4.



:-D


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## moralsh (Jun 22, 2016)

bubbagrub said:


> :-O I have a horrible feeling you're right. For a couple of years I've found cases where I've had to do two swaps, but maybe if I just stopped and thought I'd find it could always be done with just one swap. Blimey...



I just now the sequence is Green-Red-Blue-Orange, just find which two are contiguous and swap the other two , that's what I do


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## Jason Green (Jun 23, 2016)

Woohoo I made my first round in the race to sub 20! I really did not expect to yet! Also got a new PB ao5 17.76 during that. Nice to have something worth sharing once in a while.


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## h2f (Jun 23, 2016)

bubbagrub said:


> I have two unrelated questions which maybe this group will have useful views on:
> 
> I've only got about 10 OLLs left to learn, and I'm finding myself biasing in favour of algorithms that are very similar to ones I already know. This makes them very quick to learn, but sometimes leads to me confusing algorithms with each other. What do you guys prefer -- algorithms that are very distinctive, or ones that are easy to learn, making use of common triggers, etc.?
> In solving 4x4 (using Yau), I often find myself with what I think of as a Z-perm for centres -- in other words, having solved the red, green, orange, blue centres, they end up in the order red, orange, green, blue, meaning I have to do two swaps (e.g., orange with red and then red with green) to get them in the right order. Anyone know if there's an easier way to deal with that?
> Thanks!



1. I prefer them too though I sometimes mess them and it takes time to get used them without mistake.
2. I dont know it. Doing Hoya I had this problem very often so I started to say myself talking about 3rd color of my centers. For example if I solve blue-green and put green of right side I say myself "orange". I do it in preinspection.

Yesterday I was practicing OH just for fun and expecting nothing special - when I practice in night I'm too tired to have good lookahed or to be focused what I'm doing. I got this on cam. It's a part of the first ao12 sub40 36.26 - I had very consistent 12 solves: only the first was over 40 and the rest sub 40. Lots of pauses so it shows how Roux can be good in OH due to move efficency.


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## JanW (Jun 23, 2016)

Jason Green said:


> Woohoo I made my first round in the race to sub 20! I really did not expect to yet! Also got a new PB ao5 17.76 during that. Nice to have something worth sharing once in a while.


Nice, you are improving fast! If I'm not mistaken, you started cubing seriously less than a year go, right? How much time do you spend cubing/day on average?


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## Jason Green (Jun 23, 2016)

JanW said:


> Nice, you are improving fast! If I'm not mistaken, you started cubing seriously less than a year go, right? How much time do you spend cubing/day on average?


Thanks! Yeah almost a year of speed cubing. I had learned Petrus method several years ago and could solve in a couple minutes at best, but I think that was definitely a head start. Although I had to refresh on that when I got back into it, but went right to CFOP then. 

I'm guessing I average 1.5 to 2 hours a day. Kind of hard to say, of course I have periods where I don't get much in like everyone I'm sure.

Edit: Plus I'm pretty focused still on 3x3 so far. Very little practice on anything else comparatively. Also I feel like my knowledge is very limited next to a lot of the guys here. I don't spend much time learning more I spend all I can get practicing.


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## h2f (Jun 23, 2016)

@Jason Green You're on a good path to sub20. Awsome job! On cam?


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## MarcelP (Jun 23, 2016)

Jason Green said:


> Woohoo I made my first round in the race to sub 20! I really did not expect to yet! Also got a new PB ao5 17.76 during that. Nice to have something worth sharing once in a while.


Good job man! I think you are nice on path for a sub 16 average within one year from now.. I bet you will be one of the fastest oldies! Keep it up... (oh and... nothing besides 3x3 is really important anyway. LOL).


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## mafergut (Jun 23, 2016)

MarcelP said:


> Good job man! I think you are nice on path for a sub 16 average within one year from now.. I bet you will be one of the fastest oldies! Keep it up... (oh and... nothing besides 3x3 is really important anyway. LOL).


Well, I have to admit that @Jason Green progress is really impressive. I used to say that 3x3 was the only important event as well... until I stopped progressing. Then I changed my mind


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## Jason Green (Jun 23, 2016)

h2f said:


> @Jason Green You're on a good path to sub20. Awsome job! On cam?


Thank you! No, I don't film that much of my practice usually. Maybe I should film more, I'm just lazy I guess. 


MarcelP said:


> Good job man! I think you are nice on path for a sub 16 average within one year from now.. I bet you will be one of the fastest oldies! Keep it up... (oh and... nothing besides 3x3 is really important anyway. LOL).


Thank you! I kind of thought if I'm sub 20 solidly I might spend more time on other stuff. But now that you're putting these crazy ideas like 16 in my mind... [emoji12] 


mafergut said:


> Well, I have to admit that @Jason Green progress is really impressive. I used to say that 3x3 was the only important event as well... until I stopped progressing. Then I changed my mind


Thanks! This reminds me of a Bruce Lee quote I like that I saw from another cuber I think. If it was on here sorry I forgot. 
"There are no limits. There are only plateaus, and you must not stay there, you must go beyond them."


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## earth2dan (Jun 23, 2016)

Jason Green said:


> Woohoo I made my first round in the race to sub 20! I really did not expect to yet! Also got a new PB ao5 17.76 during that. Nice to have something worth sharing once in a while.


Right on! Nice work @Jason Green. You've come a long way in a really short period of time. You already beat my single PB, now you're going after my A05 PB!


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## Chree (Jun 23, 2016)

Jason Green said:


> Woohoo I made my first round in the race to sub 20! I really did not expect to yet! Also got a new PB ao5 17.76 during that. Nice to have something worth sharing once in a while.



Nice work, man!


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## h2f (Jun 23, 2016)

I've started to record my sessions again. First sub30 on cam a moment ago. OH of course:


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## muchacho (Jun 23, 2016)

Awesome. Have you tried the Weilong for OH?


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## mafergut (Jun 23, 2016)

Oh my, you almost beat my CFOP OH PB single. To be honest I have not been anywhere close to sub-30 in a long time. Nice job!!! You're getting fast pretty quickly with Roux... 2H and OH.


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## h2f (Jun 23, 2016)

Thank you.



muchacho said:


> Awesome. Have you tried the Weilong for OH?



Yes, I tried but decided to stay with my crappy aolong which has a nice M slice turn.



mafergut said:


> Oh my, you almost beat my CFOP OH PB single. To be honest I have not been anywhere close to sub-30 in a long time. Nice job!!! You're getting fast pretty quickly with Roux... 2H and OH.



In fact I've beaten. My pb is 27.xx but not on cam.


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## earth2dan (Jun 23, 2016)

Ah yeah! 4:50.35 6x6 PB! With OLL parity  I had a few close calls yesterday so I knew I was close to getting a sub 5. I am in love with this Yuxin 6x6


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## Jason Green (Jun 23, 2016)

earth2dan said:


> Ah yeah! 4:50.35 6x6 PB! With OLL parity  I had a few close calls yesterday so I knew I was close to getting a sub 5. I am in love with this Yuxin 6x6


Oh quit! I still suck at 5x5 too much to buy a 6x6. It may happen when u buy GTS though.


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## h2f (Jun 23, 2016)

earth2dan said:


> Ah yeah! 4:50.35 6x6 PB! With OLL parity  I had a few close calls yesterday so I knew I was close to getting a sub 5. I am in love with this Yuxin 6x6



Nice, congrats. I must try 6x6 again.


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## mafergut (Jun 23, 2016)

earth2dan said:


> Ah yeah! 4:50.35 6x6 PB! With OLL parity  I had a few close calls yesterday so I knew I was close to getting a sub 5. I am in love with this Yuxin 6x6


And you haven't even put the Yuxin 5x5 springs on it yet. Wait until you have done that!!!


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## Logiqx (Jun 23, 2016)

So close... 1:00.305 single for 4x4. I wasted time looking at the timer after OLL!

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk


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## earth2dan (Jun 23, 2016)

mafergut said:


> And you haven't even put the Yuxin 5x5 springs on it yet. Wait until you have done that!!!


Oh? I didn't know this was a thing. It would have to make a significant difference, because I'm pretty happy with it as is. I tightened it a bit to help prevent those locks/pops and so far that seems to have done the trick.



Logiqx said:


> So close... 1:00.305 single for 4x4. I wasted time looking at the timer after OLL!


Oh man, so close! I've kind of taken a break from 4x4. I got the new Yuxin 4x4 with the 6x6, but so far I'm not that impressed with it. It's really good, maybe even equally as good, but not better than AoSu or G4. At least not out of the box, and I haven't taken the time to set it up yet.


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## MarcelP (Jun 23, 2016)

Jason Green said:


> "There are no limits. There are only plateaus.



There is no spoon. LOL.. I am sorry.. I had a Matrix moment there..


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## mafergut (Jun 23, 2016)

MarcelP said:


> There is no spoon. LOL.. I am sorry.. I had a Matrix moment there..


I wish I could do the Matrix thing like Neo and slow time down... to beat some cubing records, but of course that would not be the first thing I'd do.

By the way, I could not resist and had to place an order today. The culprit? The new SS Megaminx Aurora. The XMD Galaxy is nowhere to be seen on sale yet so I had to try the Aurora instead. And, you know, I had to optimize shipping costs so I ordered a Lan Lan Curvy Copter, a Lan Lan 3x3x2 (my first cuboid!!!! will need to learn some algs here) and the Qiyi skewb (don't need to ask, yes, I got the stickerless variant). I think when I receive all these and the Yuxin 6x6 I will do a video with all my latest purchases  ... since the Aofu GT.


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## mark49152 (Jun 23, 2016)

@newtonbase, are you now a Hoya expert?


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## JanW (Jun 23, 2016)

mafergut said:


> and the Qiyi skewb (don't need to ask, yes, I got the stickerless variant).


I placed a Qiyi Skewb in my latest order as well, though I can't remember now if I ended up ordering the stickerless or stickered. Is there some difference that I wasn't aware of?


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## Logiqx (Jun 23, 2016)

While we're doing the film quotes...

"Do or do not. There is no try"

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk


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## newtonbase (Jun 23, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> @newtonbase, are you now a Hoya expert?


I wish. 81% turnout ruined any chance of serious practice. Bloody democracy.


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## muchacho (Jun 24, 2016)

Brexin some OH PBs

Single: 38.917 (was 39.350)
Ao5: 45.336 (was 48.069)
Ao12: 49.493 (was 53.308)

I want to continue until reaching decent times, is sub-40 Ao12 good enough (for a 23 seconds 2H solver)?


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## mafergut (Jun 24, 2016)

muchacho said:


> Brexin some OH PBs
> 
> Single: 38.917 (was 39.350)
> Ao5: 45.336 (was 48.069)
> ...


I'd say anything below double your 2H times is very good. My OH average is above 40s... well, I don't practice much to be honest but I consider any sub-40 solve a good one and I don't have but one sub-30 solve. But maybe Roux with a lower movecount can be comparatively faster at OH than 2H, I don't really know.


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## muchacho (Jun 24, 2016)

I guess it can result in less moves/rotations than other methods if you are efficient, but I'm the worst at that 

Edit: at least the ratio of GuRoux looks impressive, and h2f so far.


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## Selkie (Jun 24, 2016)

Hi all. Firstly apologies for not being around much. Work has been manic and being summer, Volkswagen festivals (my other passion) are taking a lot of time but having seen @Jason Green 's post on FB about his excellent first sub 20 average in sub race and @MarcelP 's FB post of the medals for his comp thought I would drop by.

Still practicing albeit slightly less but need to get concentration back to try and get to sub 15 globally and comp. Will try and catch up on the thread in the next couple of days and try and get some events fast enough again to warrant some more videos 

Missed my elder cubing brethren


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## mafergut (Jun 24, 2016)

We have missed you too, @Selkie


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## h2f (Jun 24, 2016)

Nice to see you back Chris @Selkie. Tomorrow I have a comp - http://cubecomps.com/live.php?cid=1611. As well as Marcel does but he is also a organizer. 

I'm going to have a lot of fun. Every sub25 ao5 I'll take with closed eyes. Every good solve in othe events - 3bld - too. My acc in 3bld is much down due to 3style solving.


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## mafergut (Jun 24, 2016)

Good luck to you both in the comp!!!


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## odouhaha (Jun 24, 2016)

Hi guys, I have a question and hope someone can help me with my times. When i solve my times are always in a range of 20sec or more, so one solve is sub 30 and the next is in high 40s. I do around a hundred solves a day and have a PB of 24.07 but my average is usually around 40s..

Screenshot of ZYX Timer which im using, the graph shows my inconsistency.

Thanks for helping.


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## muchacho (Jun 24, 2016)

Try hiding the times, I sometimes screw up the solve after a good one because of trying (too hard) to get a good Ao5.

But I remember being more inconsistent when I was slower.


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## odouhaha (Jun 24, 2016)

muchacho said:


> Try hiding the times, I sometimes screw up the solve after a good one because I try (too hard) to get a good Ao5.
> 
> But I remember being more inconsistent when I was slower.


I hide it from the app during solving, but it is driving me nuts also i seem to be stuck in same time ranges for a while, although my PB keeps improving regularly my average is slightly improving..


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## muchacho (Jun 24, 2016)

Always try to keep learning something even if it makes you slower in the short term. Don't time the solves if it bothers you, and focus on your weakest points and do untimed part-solves trying to be efficient... that's what I should be doing 

What's your method? How many algs you know?


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## odouhaha (Jun 24, 2016)

muchacho said:


> Always try to keep learning something even if it makes you slower in the short term. Don't time the solves if it bothers you, and focus on your weakest points and do untimed part-solves trying to be efficient... that's what I should be doing
> 
> What's your method? How many algs you know?


I think it is called CFOP - doing white cross > F2L > 2look OLL (+6 or 7 algs) > 2look PLL

Jah i know that could be better, but the timing is keeping me motivated, even if it isnt consistent.. do you recommend learning all algorithms? I've tried slow solving for a while but it did not improve the inconsistency im having.


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## Jason Green (Jun 24, 2016)

odouhaha said:


> I think it is called CFOP - doing white cross > F2L > 2look OLL (+6 or 7 algs) > 2look PLL
> 
> Jah i know that could be better, but the timing is keeping me motivated, even if it isnt consistent.. do you recommend learning all algorithms? I've tried slow solving for a while but it did not improve the inconsistency im having.


I would go ahead and start working on full PLL first. I know learning algs was exciting for me and it can start helping your times. After that you can slowly start learning full OLL. I know I was hesitant to start that, but now that I know them all it does not seem like a big deal. I guess I should start Winter Variation myself, I'm just wanting to learn look ahead better.


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## mafergut (Jun 24, 2016)

odouhaha said:


> I hide it from the app during solving, but it is driving me nuts also i seem to be stuck in same time ranges for a while, although my PB keeps improving regularly my average is slightly improving..


I think that is completely normal. Also, with 4LLL it is reasonable that you would have more variance as just from one solve where you get a cross (so you skip 1st look of OLL) and let's say an A-perm (also doing 1L PLL) compared to another solve where you need 2L OLL and 2L PLL, only for that you might have 6-8 seconds of difference. Once you learn full PLL variance will be slightly reduced. But anyway, there are solves that are just harder than others, a hidden F2L corner in a back slot, difficult cross... or just a small (or not small) fail (like inserting an F2L pair in the wrong slot of with the edge flipped). I can have a 15 second solve and a 25 sec one right after that.
Also, as @muchacho has said, try to do slow, untimed solves to work on efficiency and as @Jason Green said I'd start learning full PLL right now. Watch walthrough solve videos, that will also help you with F2L efficiency.


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## earth2dan (Jun 24, 2016)

muchacho said:


> Always try to keep learning something even if it makes you slower in the short term. Don't time the solves if it bothers you, and focus on your weakest points and do untimed part-solves trying to be efficient... that's what I should be doing


This is excellent advice. You will always hit a point where practice alone will no longer yield significant improvement, you must learn more to get better. That may slow you down temporarily, but that's learning . A few pages back someone busted out the old Bruce Lee quote about plateau's, and it couldn't be more true with this hobby. 

Like @Jason Green said, learning your PLL's would be good right now. Most of the PLL's set themselves up, so they are really easy to drill over and over again. It may seem daunting at first, but once you start learning algs you'll find it gets easier and easier. When you're around the 40 second mark, learning more PLLs is a good way to shave a good 5+ seconds off your averages. I was around 40s averages when I embarked on the full PLL mission, and I still only know about 1/2 my OLLs.


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## JanW (Jun 24, 2016)

odouhaha said:


> Hi guys, I have a question and hope someone can help me with my times. When i solve my times are always in a range of 20sec or more, so one solve is sub 30 and the next is in high 40s. I do around a hundred solves a day and have a PB of 24.07 but my average is usually around 40s..


Can you tell what's the difference between your good and your bad solves? Which things are costing you time in the bad solves?

I've seen quite a bit of swings myself. Apart from skips, the main difference is usually in F2L. A smooth F2L leads to a good time, while bad F2L costs a lot of time. For me large swings are usually the symptom of moving too fast, which hurts lookahead. If you move really fast, occasionally you will get lucky, always have the next F2L pair immediately in your line of sight when the last pair is inserted and end up with a really fast solve. But more often you won't. When you don't, it takes a while to find out what to do next. By moving slower and really focusing on looking for the next pair while solving the last, my times are a lot more consistent. And they also improve faster this way.


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## bubbagrub (Jun 24, 2016)

Done my first ever ao12 on 6x6: 8:25. Not a great time, I know, but good enough for me. My goal is to get a single (which means beating the hard limit which is usually 10 minutes), although if I can get enough practice in between now and the competition at the end of July maybe I'll aim for a mean...

I also had my first 6x6 pop. About a third of the cube disintegrated. It was not as hard or un-fun to put back together as I'd expected... 

Meanwhile, good luck to h2f and Marcel!


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## Selkie (Jun 24, 2016)

odouhaha said:


> I think it is called CFOP - doing white cross > F2L > 2look OLL (+6 or 7 algs) > 2look PLL
> 
> Jah i know that could be better, but the timing is keeping me motivated, even if it isnt consistent.. do you recommend learning all algorithms? I've tried slow solving for a while but it did not improve the inconsistency im having.



I would agree with the others, learn the algorithm sets you want so full PLL and also full OLL if you want but this is obviously a bigger task being more cases. When learning and still improving times can fluctuate a lot, they can also fluctuate quite a bit from 4 look last layer. Best of luck with Progress


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## Selkie (Jun 24, 2016)

First Ao100 in ... erm ... Forgot due to old and and senility  ... 16.2 seconds. Dropped a few tenths last few months but not as much as I had imagined.


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## Jason Green (Jun 24, 2016)

Maybe my FB post encouraged Chris to do an ao100?? I'm glad I have finally served a meaningful purpose in this world.


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## Selkie (Jun 24, 2016)

Jason Green said:


> Maybe my FB post encouraged Chris to do an ao100?? I'm glad I have finally served a meaningful purpose in this world.



Needed to start back. If I leave it any longer you will be sub 10. Great progress mate


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## newtonbase (Jun 24, 2016)

Finally broke 2 mins for a Hoya single. It's definitely a faster method but I make an awful lot of mistakes. Hitting the 1:30 cut within a month is looking ambitious but I'm going to keep at it.


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## earth2dan (Jun 24, 2016)

I guess all this 6x6 practice lately must be translating. I just did my first 7x7 solve in a while and set a new PB of 8:32.72. That's over 30 seconds off my old PB. I was just hoping for sub 9 

Edit: And they just keep rolling in. New 6x6 PB of 4:39.89


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## odouhaha (Jun 24, 2016)

JanW said:


> Can you tell what's the difference between your good and your bad solves? Which things are costing you time in the bad solves?
> 
> I've seen quite a bit of swings myself. Apart from skips, the main difference is usually in F2L. A smooth F2L leads to a good time, while bad F2L costs a lot of time. For me large swings are usually the symptom of moving too fast, which hurts lookahead. If you move really fast, occasionally you will get lucky, always have the next F2L pair immediately in your line of sight when the last pair is inserted and end up with a really fast solve. But more often you won't. When you don't, it takes a while to find out what to do next. By moving slower and really focusing on looking for the next pair while solving the last, my times are a lot more consistent. And they also improve faster this way.


You're right I have problems in F2L it seems, have done a timing on cross, f2l and last layer. F2L is the part I am having very different times in. It is hard to look ahead to identify the next pair which if not obviously present I start looking and take too much time there.


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## odouhaha (Jun 24, 2016)

Selkie said:


> I would agree with the others, learn the algorithm sets you want so full PLL and also full OLL if you want but this is obviously a bigger task being more cases. When learning and still improving times can fluctuate a lot, they can also fluctuate quite a bit from 4 look last layer. Best of luck with Progress


Full PLL is added to my to do list! Thank you.


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## odouhaha (Jun 24, 2016)

mafergut said:


> I think that is completely normal. Also, with 4LLL it is reasonable that you would have more variance as just from one solve where you get a cross (so you skip 1st look of OLL) and let's say an A-perm (also doing 1L PLL) compared to another solve where you need 2L OLL and 2L PLL, only for that you might have 6-8 seconds of difference. Once you learn full PLL variance will be slightly reduced. But anyway, there are solves that are just harder than others, a hidden F2L corner in a back slot, difficult cross... or just a small (or not small) fail (like inserting an F2L pair in the wrong slot of with the edge flipped). I can have a 15 second solve and a 25 sec one right after that.
> Also, as @muchacho has said, try to do slow, untimed solves to work on efficiency and as @Jason Green said I'd start learning full PLL right now. Watch walthrough solve videos, that will also help you with F2L efficiency.


Thanks for the confidence built, but what does 4LLL mean??


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## Jason Green (Jun 24, 2016)

odouhaha said:


> Thanks for the confidence built, but what does 4LLL mean??


4 look last layer. 2 look OLL and PLL.


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## earth2dan (Jun 24, 2016)

odouhaha said:


> You're right I have problems in F2L it seems, have done a timing on cross, f2l and last layer. F2L is the part I am having very different times in. It is hard to look ahead to identify the next pair which if not obviously present I start looking and take too much time there.


Like others have said. It's all about slowing down and working on lookahead. However, one thing to be mindful of is whether or not you're really ready for lookahead. Before you can focus on practicing lookahead, you need to be comfortable building most F2L cases without looking at the pieces while you're building them. When you find your first F2L pair try building it and inserting it with your eyes closed, then do the same for each remaining pair. If you can consistently do this, then you are ready for look ahead. Another thing you can try (I did this) is to build your F2L pair, but before you insert it, find your next pair. Then track the next pair while you insert the one you just built. This will help get you into the habit of looking away from the pair you're working on and finding the next pair.

Also, put that timer in a drawer and forget about it while you practice this. Times are irrelevant when you're learning F2L and lookahead. I find I slip into so many bad habits with that blasted timer running, things I know I can execute more efficiently but when clock is ticking I tend to just go with what is familiar and requires the least thinking, and that is counter-intuitive to progression.


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## newtonbase (Jun 24, 2016)

earth2dan said:


> Also, put that timer in a drawer and forget about it while you practice this. Times are irrelevant when you're learning F2L and lookahead. I find I slip into so many bad habits with that blasted timer running, things I know I can execute more efficiently but when clock is ticking I tend to just go with what is familiar and requires the least thinking, and that is counter-intuitive to progression.


Such good advice. I have a few new OLLs but I find that as soon as I start timing solves I ignore them and do more familiar 2 looks instead. I have to force myself to go the slower route for long term progression. It worked for G perms!


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## Jason Green (Jun 24, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> Such good advice. I have a few new OLLs but I find that as soon as I start timing solves I ignore them and do more familiar 2 looks instead. I have to force myself to go the slower route for long term progression. It worked for G perms!


As I have said it's very difficult for me not to time myself, but when I was learning OLLs I would do a mix. I would time my solves, but if I got a new OLL I would do it and delete the time if it was slow or I botched it. If I executed it well I got to keep the time. Kind of cheating I suppose, but it worked for me to make learning more fun. It didn't really matter because I was not keeping any of those averages with deleted solves as pb averages.


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## h2f (Jun 25, 2016)

Jason Green said:


> As I have said it's very difficult for me not to time myself, but when I was learning OLLs I would do a mix. I would time my solves, but if I got a new OLL I would do it and delete the time if it was slow or I botched it. If I executed it well I got to keep the time. Kind of cheating I suppose, but it worked for me to make learning more fun. It didn't really matter because I was not keeping any of those averages with deleted solves as pb averages.



I did the same, when I was learning cmlls and practicing lse. And after all solves I've deleted all session.,


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## odouhaha (Jun 25, 2016)

Thanks a lot for all the great advice, it is true for me to keep doing the same and try to force myself to get faster with that. I'll check in here again once I got f2l down right and learned full PLL. Thanks again guys.


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## JanW (Jun 25, 2016)

I need to learn a thing or two about lubing. I only have a bottle of Maru lube so far, it seems there are much more popular lubes out there. The weight 1-5 lubes I read so often about are the Cubicle lubes, right? Do you Europeans order them from there, or buy something similar from this side of the Atlantic pond? Many mention Traxxas 50k. In local RC shops they have lots of different silicone differential oils. Would these be the same, assuming I pick the same 50k weight?

I've read so much good about the Thunderclap, but mine came with pre-installed spring noises. Have to fix that somehow.


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## Selkie (Jun 25, 2016)

I use Traxxas 50k which I believe is the same as weight 5? And Traxxas 30k is weight 3? Used to buy Lubix a few years ago but its is very similar. I tend to lube the core with 50k once every few months using the same method as Lubix video. I tend to use Maru in addition on all puzzles at comp for some reason but it only really last a few hours.


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## h2f (Jun 25, 2016)

3rd in 3bld after super super safe last solve - 1:37.03. The first and second were 1:07 (off by 3 edges and rolling pop during scramble) and 1:11 (off by few pieces when undo setup). I'm happy with that result. I got also 29.7 ao5 in 3x3. 2x2 was bad - bad recon off PBL which gave 11.xx and 30.xx (the 30.xx was done in 17 but I treid to catch equal 30.00).


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## Selkie (Jun 25, 2016)

h2f said:


> 3rd in 3bld after super super safe last solve - 1:37.03. The first and second were 1:07 (off by 3 edges and rolling pop during scramble) and 1:11 (off by few pieces when undo setup). I'm happy with that result. I got also 29.7 ao5 in 3x3. 2x2 was bad - bad recon off PBL which gave 11.xx and 30.xx (the 30.xx was done in 17 but I treid to catch equal 30.00).



Awesome, podium finish


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## muchacho (Jun 25, 2016)

Nice 3BLD Grzegorz, and kudos for sticking with Roux for the competition!


I got a new ao12 PB, 20.272 (it was 20.436 from 11-jun)...


Spoiler: times



21439 25-jun-2016 12:25:41 00:18.304 D' L2 B2 U R2 B2 U B2 U2 L2 U' F' U R U' B' L B' D2 B2 R2 F'
21438 25-jun-2016 12:24:53 00:19.422 R2 F2 D F2 D L2 U L2 B2 U2 L2 B R B U' L' B R' U' F' R' U'
21437 25-jun-2016 12:23:58 00:20.678 F2 L2 U' B2 U L2 B2 F2 R2 L2 B' L2 F' U' L' F2 R' B L2 F2 U'
21436 25-jun-2016 12:23:10 00:18.358 D' B2 F2 L2 F2 D' F2 L2 U L2 U' R' B L2 B' D L2 F R2 F2 D F
21435 25-jun-2016 12:22:27 00:24.662 R2 F2 D' L2 U' L2 U' F2 U2 L2 D2 F U' L' F2 R2 F U2 L2 D' F' U'
21434 25-jun-2016 12:21:36 00:20.175 B2 L2 U' R2 U' R2 B2 U2 R2 L2 B' U2 F' L U' B' D2 R' F L2 D'
21433 25-jun-2016 12:20:48 00:21.734 F2 U' B2 D' L2 U' F2 U2 F2 U2 F' D F2 R' F U' F L' B2 F U
21432 25-jun-2016 12:19:52 00:21.072 F2 U' B2 D' R2 D B2 U R2 L2 U' R' U R B' U' L F' U2 B2 R
21431 25-jun-2016 12:19:10 00:17.030 R2 F2 R2 U F2 R2 U L2 D B2 U L' F2 R B R' U' F L' F' L U2
21430 25-jun-2016 12:18:20 00:26.824 L2 D' L2 U2 B2 L2 U F2 U F2 R L' D L' F' U F L' D2 U2
21429 25-jun-2016 12:17:36 00:19.990 F2 D2 L2 U' L2 D B2 D' F2 L2 D2 B' D' L' U' L2 D' L2 B' D R'
21428 25-jun-2016 12:16:39 00:18.329 D' R2 U' R2 B2 U' B2 L2 F2 L2 U' R L2 F2 U B R B F' R2 D U'



...so I thought it was time to record another video for the "race to sub-10  archive". It's a 21.803 average.


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## h2f (Jun 25, 2016)

Selkie said:


> Awesome, podium finish





muchacho said:


> Nice 3BLD Grzegorz, and kudos for sticking with Roux for the competition!



Thanks. And yes - I try to follow the rule "no steps back". This means in 3bld I did all solves with 3style though last 4 targest needed small setups and I did them with simple M2. But these were only exceptions... 

And - nice ao12 - I believe sub20 very soon.


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## mafergut (Jun 25, 2016)

Nice solves @muchacho, David. And congratulations for your results and courage on implementing new things, @h2f Grzegorz.

I finally cleaned and lubed my Tanglong and now I think I like it more than the Yuexiao. I overlubed it a bit, though, with weight 2 but the lube is gradually breaking in.


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## muchacho (Jun 25, 2016)

Thanks, I wanted to be sub-20 in one year (that's in two weeks), but months ago I realized it won't happen, so I let OH distract me. Learning algs for that is messing with my 2H ones... but I don't mind, my OH times are improving way faster than I expected.

Single: 35.197 (was 38.518)
Ao5: 41.999 (was 45.071)
Ao12: 43.257 (was 47.255)


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## mafergut (Jun 25, 2016)

muchacho said:


> Thanks, I wanted to be sub-20 in one year (that's in two weeks), but months ago I realized it won't happen, so I let OH distract me. Learning algs for that is messing with my 2H ones... but I don't mind, my OH times are improving way faster than I expected.
> 
> Single: 35.197 (was 38.518)
> Ao5: 41.999 (was 45.071)
> Ao12: 43.257 (was 47.255)



That's the route I've taken as well. In my case I'm into big cubes lately, as you probably have realized  but any other event is fine as long as I can improve on it. I was expecting to be like sub-17 or sub-16 by now at 3x3 but I'm stuck at like high 18 to mid 19... and still too many solves go over 23 or worse. I don't think I'll ever beat my current PB single or Ao5 so it's nice to get PBs on other events to avoid getting bored / demotivated.

By the way, you're catching up quite fast at OH. I'll have to practice again beyond the weekly comp scrambles


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## mark49152 (Jun 25, 2016)

Congrats @h2f!

My first few solves with Yuxin 6x6: first was stiff and slow, second jammed, third catchy and slow, fourth jammed, fifth internal pop, same with sixth, break for reassembly, one normal solve, then another internal pop.

I do really like the size and feel but this cube is going to take a lot of patience...


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## mafergut (Jun 25, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> Congrats @h2f!
> 
> My first few solves with Yuxin 6x6: first was stiff and slow, second jammed, third catchy and slow, fourth jammed, fifth internal pop, same with sixth, break for reassembly, one normal solve, then another internal pop.
> 
> I do really like the size and feel but this cube is going to take a lot of patience...


You're scaring me off


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## mark49152 (Jun 26, 2016)

mafergut said:


> You're scaring me off


Kevin Hays is a better judge than me. It probably just doesn't like my sloppy turning!


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## mafergut (Jun 26, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> Kevin Hays is a better judge than me. It probably just doesn't like my sloppy turning!


That's the problem. Then it won't like mine either. 

Sent from my Nexus 4 with Tapatalk


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## h2f (Jun 26, 2016)

That's the way I got bronze medal in 3bld.






I wrote here about twisted corner during scrambling in 3bld. I watched my viedos and I did it. I dont know how but during 2nd or 3rd 3cycle of edges the corner has popped: it goes good for setups and backs bad.


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## mark49152 (Jun 26, 2016)

Nice solve Grzegorz. 

Marcel, have you been practising 4x4?


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## MarcelP (Jun 27, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> Marcel, have you been practising 4x4?


 I had a great day on my first Competition as organiser. I was not expecting to beat any PB's but still I did. And 4x4 was the only event I did not practice before. I think this time I had no nerves while doing 4x4. I had 10 parities in 5 solves  Still beat my single and average PB  I also beat my 2x2 single, and Pyraminx average. I DNF-ed two times on Skewb. I did not practice it and forgot how to solve  I managed to get a 5x5 solve under time limit so I did not start a second solve. I was happy with that result. 3X3 went good. I had 20.20 in second round which is only .4 worse than my best ever (with a 40+ solve and a 2+ in there). I still find it hard to controle my nerves on 3x3. But considering as an organiser you can not do warm up solves and all it went perfect for me


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## h2f (Jun 27, 2016)

Great news Marcel. I have a problem with my nerves too. I failed in 2x2 because of them.


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## JohnnyReggae (Jun 27, 2016)

I use CFOP and have managed to learn, with my old brain, full OLL and PLL. I feel I need to move on now. Which alg set should I be moving onto now ? I'm really unsure of which direction to go in that is manageable that doesn't require a few hundred algs that will give me the most benefit ? I currently average just under 20 seconds, thereabouts ....

Also thinking about venturing into the world of ZZ, however I struggle with the tutorials as I can't get my head around written tutorials. I like visuals to learn from.


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## Selkie (Jun 27, 2016)

@MarcelP Fantastic news, glad it went so well. I agree with nerves in 3x3. I seemed to conquer them last comp by slowing right down. Slower than I normally solve when solving slow if that makes sense?!

@mark49152 My turning style is so lazy its almost enough to put me off ordering a Yuxin 6x6, but not quite


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## mark49152 (Jun 27, 2016)

Selkie said:


> @mark49152 My turning style is so lazy its almost enough to put me off ordering a Yuxin 6x6, but not quite


Things are improving as my hands get used to being more accurate, and feeling and responding to those little catches before they become locks. I now have my rolling ao12 under 6 minutes. It's a nice cube and I prefer it to the AoShi.


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## SenorJuan (Jun 27, 2016)

JohnnyR:"I use CFOP, full OLL and PLL. Which alg set should I be moving onto now ?"
I'm sure others will have ideas about LL alg alternatives.
I would say there's potential to reduce your times from your current 20s by improving what you currently do.
The 'F2L' stage offers lots of intellectual challenge if you want that - using empty slots, reducing cube rotations, filling slots from multiple angles.
Then there's your cross. If it's pretty good, then Extended-Cross might be worth considering. (my cross isn't that hot, so I've never even tried XCross, hence I can't really offer any specific tips).
What I wouldn't recommend trying is any kind of colour-neutral technique.


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## mafergut (Jun 27, 2016)

Congratulations @MarcelP !!! I can't even imagine the level of nerves I would have if I ever go to my 1st competition.
@JohnnyReggae if you are thinking about ZZ, maybe COLL would be a nice next step in alg learning (it would be handy for ZZ OH and 2H and for big cubes also) but I agree that there are lots of things that can be improved in F2L, cross, etc.


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## phreaker (Jun 27, 2016)

JohnnyReggae said:


> I use CFOP and have managed to learn, with my old brain, full OLL and PLL. I feel I need to move on now. Which alg set should I be moving onto now ? I'm really unsure of which direction to go in that is manageable that doesn't require a few hundred algs that will give me the most benefit ? I currently average just under 20 seconds, thereabouts ....
> 
> Also thinking about venturing into the world of ZZ, however I struggle with the tutorials as I can't get my head around written tutorials. I like visuals to learn from.



asmallkitten's videos on ZZ are quite good, IMHO.

Once you get past learning EOLine, ZZ is fun. Of course that's a HUGE hurdle. I'm still really learning it after months of practice.


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## JohnnyReggae (Jun 27, 2016)

SenorJuan said:


> JohnnyR:"I use CFOP, full OLL and PLL. Which alg set should I be moving onto now ?"
> I'm sure others will have ideas about LL alg alternatives.
> I would say there's potential to reduce your times from your current 20s by improving what you currently do.
> The 'F2L' stage offers lots of intellectual challenge if you want that - using empty slots, reducing cube rotations, filling slots from multiple angles.
> ...



I feel that my cross is reasonable and has been improving of late. I haven't spent a lot of time with XCross. On the occasions that I spot a pair during inspection I usually end up messing my solve up completely trying to think of a way of preserving that while doing my cross. The Xcrosses that I have had have been a complete fluke.

As for F2L... I noticed that I use the same moves to pair pieces all the time and some of them involved cube rotations but it's difficult to get out of habits when you have a timer running, which for me is most of the time. I know the answer is to turn off the timer and do slow solves, however after a short while I want to see how I'm doing against the clock again.

Of late I've been concentrating of look ahead quite actively and when I get it right I get times in the low teens, having just had a 12.99 10 minutes ago. I've found that look ahead has been the cause of the biggest jump in time improvement .. .when it works 

edit: My 12.99s solve reconstructed ... (which looking at it again could have been done many ways which I tried afterwards and none gave me a PLL skip  )

https://alg.cubing.net/?setup=F2_D_...R_U_R-_U-_f-_U-_F_//_oll_(pll_skip)
U_//_auf




mafergut said:


> Congratulations @MarcelP !!! I can't even imagine the level of nerves I would have if I ever go to my 1st competition.
> @JohnnyReggae if you are thinking about ZZ, maybe COLL would be a nice next step in alg learning (it would be handy for ZZ OH and 2H and for big cubes also) but I agree that there are lots of things that can be improved in F2L, cross, etc.



I've seen COLL mentioned a few times as an alg progression after OLL/PLL. Seeing that it could be used for ZZ I think I may look in that direction more actively.



phreaker said:


> asmallkitten's videos on ZZ are quite good, IMHO.
> 
> Once you get past learning EOLine, ZZ is fun. Of course that's a HUGE hurdle. I'm still really learning it after months of practice.



I've just downloaded his video tutorials off YouTube so that I can spend time offline going through them. Busy with part 2 atm.

At the moment I get the EOLine, but the EO that goes with that is going to need some more work.


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## moralsh (Jun 27, 2016)

Congrats on joining the organizers club @MarcelP, about handling nerves, I think @Selkie nails it, focus on doing Cross and first pair slow and after that let the solve flow. You have to deliberately do it, if not, the nerves will take over and control your solve.

@mafergut, if you ever come to a competition (You'll have a chance again in Madrid Province in late october) just register to a couple of "I don't care" events, that will help lots with your nerves if any of them are prior to 3x3. In my first comp it was 2x2


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## newtonbase (Jun 27, 2016)

Tried some timed Hoya solves on my lunch break. Started nicely then a single PB turned out to be a DNF followed by a nasty 3 min solve so the average went out the window but progress is being made. PLL recognition needs work. 

I had 5 mins left of my lunch so did 6 quick 3x3 solves and broke my AO5 twice. 4x4 really helps lookahead.


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## phreaker (Jun 27, 2016)

JohnnyReggae said:


> I've just downloaded his video tutorials off YouTube so that I can spend time offline going through them. Busy with part 2 atm.
> 
> At the moment I get the EOLine, but the EO that goes with that is going to need some more work.



EO is far more important than the line. More than once I've inserted the line backwards and it is M2 U2 M2 to fix. .


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## Chree (Jun 27, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> Things are improving as my hands get used to being more accurate, and feeling and responding to those little catches before they become locks. I now have my rolling ao12 under 6 minutes. It's a nice cube and I prefer it to the AoShi.



The spring swap is definitely worth doing. I was a good 20 seconds slower before doing it. Can turn as rough as you want after that. Just yknow... be careful during the swap itself... this double Yuxin explosion added almost an hour to the process.


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## newtonbase (Jun 27, 2016)

Chree said:


> The spring swap is definitely worth doing. I was a good 20 seconds slower before doing it. Can turn as rough as you want after that. Just yknow... be careful during the swap itself... this double Yuxin explosion added almost an hour to the process.


Ouch.


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## earth2dan (Jun 27, 2016)

Chree said:


> The spring swap is definitely worth doing. I was a good 20 seconds slower before doing it. Can turn as rough as you want after that. Just yknow... be careful during the swap itself... this double Yuxin explosion added almost an hour to the process.


... That terrifies me :/ How does your 5x5 feel now? I really like my Yuxin 5x5 exactly as it is, I'd hate to mess it up to make my already good 6x6 a little better.


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## Chree (Jun 27, 2016)

earth2dan said:


> ... That terrifies me :/ How does your 5x5 feel now? I really like my Yuxin 5x5 exactly as it is, I'd hate to mess it up to make my already good 6x6 a little better.



The 5x5 is definitely slower with the 6x6 springs in it. And it doesn't necessarily feel more stable, either, since it was plenty stable before. Luckily, the Yuxin 5x5 wasn't my main, otherwise this swap would've been hard on my heart. So if it IS your main... maybe consider getting new 6x6 hardware somewhere else. You might be able to use 4x4 hardware, actually. I've seen some people say that using Yuxin 4x4 springs also works. Those might even be the same springs as they used in the 5x5 anyway.

I will say, however, the 6x6 is more than just "a little" better afterwards. Out of the box, the outer layers were really loose, prone to jamming, and popped like crazy. Meanwhile, the inner layers were annoyingly slow... a tell-tale sign of springs that are too strong. After the swap, the tensions feel a lot more even on all layers. I've lost a teeny bit of inner slice cutting, but that's not that big of a deal on big cubes anyway. But jamming on the outer layers is gone, and I haven't popped yet. This will almost definitely replace the Aoshi as my main. I haven't even lubed it yet. I'm still in the "break in' phase.


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## mark49152 (Jun 27, 2016)

I may be wrong, but I'll give my opinion anyway, which is based on reason rather than experience. 

I don't see how spring swaps can make a significant difference on a cube where the springs move through such a tiny range of motion. Sure I can pull the corners out a little on my 6x6, but when pulling the edges or layers evenly there is virtually no movement. The puzzle has to be almost tightened to the limit just to stay together. 

On the other hand, because it has to be so tight just to stay together, tiny adjustments to the screws, even of 1/8 turn, make a big difference. 

I would suggest that after a spring swap it's not the springs that make the difference, but the different adjustment after the screws were put back in.

As I said, I might be wrong because I haven't tried it myself, and I don't intend to either .


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## earth2dan (Jun 27, 2016)

@Chree My Yuxin 5x5 is sort of my co-main. It is my office 5x5 and sees a lot of action here. I can't see myself swapping it's springs out, I like it too much. After tightening up my 6x6 I've had minimal issues with lockups, though it is pretty tight. I may consider changing the springs if I can find them somewhere else, but I doubt I'll go down that road until I hit my next 6x6 plateau. For now, I'm quite enjoying the rapid rate of improvement 

@mark49152 Spring changes can definitely make a big difference in how a puzzle feels and performs. It's all about the resistance offered by the strength of the spring. A loose spring, that has been tightened down almost all the way is still a loose spring. By tightening it you've limited it's range of motion, but it still doesn't offer a lot of resistance within that range of motion. A tight spring can offer a wide range of motion, but require much more effort to compress it to it's limit. Both have their benefits in different scenarios. In this case, a looser spring allows you to tighten it and limit the range of motion to mitigate the lockups, while still requiring minimal effort to compress the spring over that limited range of motion. This allows the inner layers to move more freely. With tight springs, if you tighten it down to mitigate the lockups, you make the puzzle more difficult to turn, especially the middle layers because it is offering a much higher resistance to cover that limited range of motion.

I've never found spring swaps to be worth it for me with 3x3, but they can make a big difference in big cubes.


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## mark49152 (Jun 27, 2016)

earth2dan said:


> I've never found spring swaps to be worth it for me with 3x3, but they can make a big difference in big cubes.


Interesting, that's counter-intuitive, to me. I would have expected it the other way around. Anyhow, I think the major problem with my cube is not the springs but the lack of skill in the user .


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## earth2dan (Jun 27, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> Anyhow, I think the major problem with my cube is not the springs but the lack of skill in the user .


Oh yes, I'm working on this myself . I was having a lot of trouble with lockups and popping center pieces at first. I think the combination of tightening the screws and focusing more on accurate turning has made a big difference for me. For me, the Yuxin 6x6 is great as is. Even if the spring swap could make it better, I'm going to focus on improving the performance of it's user before I worry too much about improving the performance of the puzzle 

Also, I find now that I put a lot less time into modding/lubing my puzzles than I used to. I used to file down edges, swap out parts and experiment with all sorts of different lubes. I spent a whole weekend once fully modding an old shengshou 5x5. It turned out great, and felt much better after the mod, but didn't make much difference to my times. I know now that, at my current skill level, I stand to gain a lot more by just practicing and learning.


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## Chree (Jun 27, 2016)

Wow @earth2dan , that was probably one of the best explanations of the benefits of springs I've ever heard.

And yes, @mark49152, springs swaps can make a huge difference, though I have to agree... it doesn't SEEM like it should be that much of a difference. The change is felt much more around the pieces closest to the core, ie. the middle layers. With less force pushing the pieces together, the whole cube speeds up. You can also look at it this way: since there is already so little clearance in those pieces anyway, it doesn't take much change in spring length to create a substantial difference in pressure, and thus: feel. Plus, there are always 2 springs per axis, so any one swap creates that difference x2.

A shengshou 6x6 was practically unusable without a spring swap. And a SS Mini 7x7 went from "pretty good" to "absolutely incredible" after a spring swap. This Yuxin 6x6 job was the 3rd spring swap I've ever done. Though probably the least dramatic change, it still took me from "wanting to throw it in the trash" to "wanting to main with it".


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## earth2dan (Jun 27, 2016)

Chree said:


> A shengshou 6x6 was practically unusable without a spring swap. And a SS Mini 7x7 went from "pretty good" to "absolutely incredible" after a spring swap. This Yuxin 6x6 job was the 3rd spring swap I've ever done. Though probably the least dramatic change, it still took me from "wanting to throw it in the trash" to "wanting to main with it".


What springs did you put in your SS 6x6 and mini 7x7? My SS 6x6 has been a paperweight since the day it arrived. I really like the size and feel of the mini 7x7, but I do struggle with the inner layers.


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## Chree (Jun 27, 2016)

I installed a set of Dayan 3x3 springs for each. Apparently, Dayan springs also help the Moyu Aoshi, but my Aoshi was just good enough that I didn't think it was necessary.

The SS 6x6 will still pop afterwards, though. It's just not enough to salvage it altogether. But I was at least able to compete with it once, back in the day, rather than use an original V-Cube


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## earth2dan (Jun 27, 2016)

Chree said:


> I installed a set of Dayan 3x3 springs for each. Apparently, Dayan springs also help the Moyu Aoshi, but my Aoshi was just good enough that I didn't think it was necessary.
> 
> The SS 6x6 will still pop afterwards, though. It's just not enough to salvage it altogether. But I was at least able to compete with it once, back in the day, rather than use an original V-Cube


Cool. I doubt I'll ever touch the SS 6x6 again, It's been outclassed. Though I'd like to make my mini 7x7 better. The new AoFu GT is really nice, but I still prefer the slightly smaller profile of the SS mini. I've got a few Dayan hardware sets in my cube drawer... maybe...


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## mark49152 (Jun 28, 2016)

Changing the subject from springs, I just smashed my 6x6 single PB: 5.09. Best by 17 seconds but what I'm most pleased about is how close it is to the UK cut of 5 mins. Gives me hope I will get a mean one day.


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## Chree (Jun 28, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> Changing the subject from springs, I just smashed my 6x6 single PB: 5.09. Best by 17 seconds but what I'm most pleased about is how close it is to the UK cut of 5 mins. Gives me hope I will get a mean one day.



I believe in you.


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## One Wheel (Jun 28, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> Changing the subject from springs, I just smashed my 6x6 single PB: 5.09. Best by 17 seconds but what I'm most pleased about is how close it is to the UK cut of 5 mins. Gives me hope I will get a mean one day.



Sounds probable. I got a pretty good 6x6 single today too: my second sub-8:00, but at 7:40.79 missed my pb by 1.20 seconds. :-( Funny thing is it even had both outer wing parity and PLL parity. I'd like to say I'll catch up someday, but realistically the odds are not in my favor.


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## MarcelP (Jun 28, 2016)

Okay, I so I ordered a Yuxin 6x6... I caved in. Might be a nice cube to bring on my Holiday (We go to Germany in nice hotel with swimming pool in the mountains/forrest in the Rhön area). So I can do a solve or two in the evening.


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## mark49152 (Jun 28, 2016)

MarcelP said:


> Okay, I so I ordered a Yuxin 6x6... I caved in. Might be a nice cube to bring on my Holiday (We go to Germany in nice hotel with swimming pool in the mountains/forrest in the Rhön area). So I can do a solve or two in the evening.


Haha! Make sure to solve it somewhere you won't lose any pieces when it pops, and make sure to take a bag to bring them home in


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## Logiqx (Jun 28, 2016)

Milestone solve today... 2:29.50 on 5x5. My first single within the FK (fragmented kingdom) soft cut. 

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk


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## Selkie (Jun 28, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> Things are improving as my hands get used to being more accurate, and feeling and responding to those little catches before they become locks. I now have my rolling ao12 under 6 minutes. It's a nice cube and I prefer it to the AoShi.



Thanks for the recommendation I will order one straight away 



Chree said:


> The spring swap is definitely worth doing. I was a good 20 seconds slower before doing it. Can turn as rough as you want after that. Just yknow... be careful during the swap itself... this double Yuxin explosion added almost an hour to the process.



Ouch, yes 6x6 explosions can be time consuming. There is one on my YouTube channel whilst scrambling 



mark49152 said:


> Changing the subject from springs, I just smashed my 6x6 single PB: 5.09. Best by 17 seconds but what I'm most pleased about is how close it is to the UK cut of 5 mins. Gives me hope I will get a mean one day.



Great Mark, that really is close to cut off. Hopefully with a bit of practice you will be there soon



Logiqx said:


> Milestone solve today... 2:29.50 on 5x5. My first single within the FK (fragmented kingdom) soft cut.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk



Another great cut off solve. Great progress gents. "Fragmented Kingdom" hahahah


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## MarcelP (Jun 28, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> Haha! Make sure to solve it somewhere you won't lose any pieces when it pops, and make sure to take a bag to bring them home in


When it explodes, how does it take you to reassemble? Sounds maybe like I will not bring to a relaxing holiday  I never had a pop on my Yuxin 5x5's so I will take one of them with me.


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## earth2dan (Jun 28, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> Changing the subject from springs, I just smashed my 6x6 single PB: 5.09. Best by 17 seconds but what I'm most pleased about is how close it is to the UK cut of 5 mins. Gives me hope I will get a mean one day.


Very nice. Keep at it and I'm sure you'll get a sub 5 soon. I smashed my 6x6 single a couple weeks back with a similar time of 5:07 and have since gone on to best it with a 4:39.

@MarcelP I had an internal piece pop day 1, and have since had a couple individual center pieces pop due to lockups that I didn't bail out of in time. After tightening it up I haven't had any pops (and I'm going much faster now than I was day 1 with this cube). I would tighten each screw a good 1/4 turn right out of the box and then play with it a bit. If it feels a little too tight at first it's probably just right. If you tighten it a bit you probably won't have to worry about pops on your vacation. Though, the 5x5 is always a safe bet


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## mark49152 (Jun 28, 2016)

MarcelP said:


> When it explodes, how does it take you to reassemble? Sounds maybe like I will not bring to a relaxing holiday  I never had a pop on my Yuxin 5x5's so I will take one of them with me.


With the Yuxin I have never had an explosion, just jams and internal pops that required taking out and putting back 5-10 pieces. So just a few minutes.

On the AoShi I had a pop that took out about a quarter of it and it must have taken 30+ minutes to get it back together. Very fiddly.

One of the competitors at North London Open missed the first event after his 6x6 exploded on the train. His missed his stop while crawling around looking for pieces, and had to wait for a train back again.


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## mafergut (Jun 28, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> With the Yuxin I have never had an explosion, just jams and internal pops that required taking out and putting back 5-10 pieces. So just a few minutes.
> 
> On the AoShi I had a pop that took out about a quarter of it and it must have taken 30+ minutes to get it back together. Very fiddly.
> 
> One of the competitors at North London Open missed the first event after his 6x6 exploded on the train. His missed his stop while crawling around looking for pieces, and had to wait for a train back again.


Lesson learned: Don't use a pop-prone cube on your commute. Much less a big cube with lots of pieces. I had a pop once on a train but it was just a Weilong that popped 3 pieces, easy to collect back. Anyway I learned the lesson because I almost missed my stop as well. I have also used my CB G4 and Yuxin 5x5 on a train but the only pop I had on any of those was an internal piece of my G4 once at home.


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## h2f (Jun 28, 2016)

I had an explosion of Aoshi after binging it out of the box... lol After breaking in it I've made it tighter and now it's fine - now explosions, very rarer pops and lockups. It's great. But I would try Yuxin if I could.


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## newtonbase (Jun 28, 2016)

mafergut said:


> Lesson learned: Don't use a pop-prone cube on your commute.


To be fair to him he wasn't actually using it. He just opened his case and it fell out. I'm very impressed that he found all the pieces. He put it back together a lot more quickly than I thought he could.


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## Chree (Jun 28, 2016)

When I first got my Aoshi, but before I tensioned it at all, I was pulling apart the layers to take a look at the pieces. Boom. Luckily only 1 quarter of the cube exploded and not the whole thing.

Haven't had that problem since, thankfully!


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## bubbagrub (Jun 28, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> Changing the subject from springs, I just smashed my 6x6 single PB: 5.09. Best by 17 seconds but what I'm most pleased about is how close it is to the UK cut of 5 mins. Gives me hope I will get a mean one day.



Wow. I'm way behind you. My PB single is still above 7 minutes. 

Today I started on Multiblind again. I got 2/4, which doesn't seem bad considering I've done almost no BLD practice at all since last year. One of the two wrong ones just had two twisted corners and the other one I slipped while executing a Y-perm and didn't manage to recover properly. 

I'm still planning to try 4 before I try 5. Are you going to go for 8 again in Macclesfield, Mark?


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## bubbagrub (Jun 28, 2016)

mafergut said:


> Lesson learned: Don't use a pop-prone cube on your commute. Much less a big cube with lots of pieces. I had a pop once on a train but it was just a Weilong that popped 3 pieces, easy to collect back. Anyway I learned the lesson because I almost missed my stop as well. I have also used my CB G4 and Yuxin 5x5 on a train but the only pop I had on any of those was an internal piece of my G4 once at home.



I popped my DaYan Gem VII on a plane. It's been missing a piece ever since... :-(


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## mark49152 (Jun 29, 2016)

bubbagrub said:


> I'm still planning to try 4 before I try 5. Are you going to go for 8 again in Macclesfield, Mark?


Undecided. I might be less ambitious and shoot for 6 or 7 first. I haven't done much practice and have two weeks of business travel right before the comp, so I don't really have a target or a focus event for this one.


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## One Wheel (Jun 29, 2016)

h2f said:


> I've finished ao100 on 6x6. It took me 15 days. I did more than 100 solves - some in car waiting for wife, some in garden etc. I need to work 5x5 to get better with Hoya and some cases on last four edges.
> 
> 
> 
> ...





One Wheel said:


> I just ordered my first 6x6. I'll get it Monday or Tuesday, then I think I'll be doing this. Your 6x6 times look remarkably similar to my current 5x5 times, so I'll probably be slower, but this is a good benchmark to beat.



It's been a while on this, but I just finished my first 100 timed 6x6 solves. There has clearly been some improvement, but I've got a lot of catching up to do. The 10:58.85 near the end (solve #93) was likely a ~7:30-8 minute solve, maybe better, except for a really nasty lockup as I was finishing the last two centers.



Spoiler: 6x6 Times



Generated By csTimer on 2016-6-28
solves/total: 97/100

single
best: 7:33.67
worst: 20:46.34

mean of 3
current: 8:06.20 (σ = 36.50)
best: 8:06.20 (σ = 36.50)

avg of 5
current: 8:08.61 (σ = 33.38)
best: 8:05.96 (σ = 28.99)

avg of 12
current: 8:51.43 (σ = 54.67)
best: 8:49.39 (σ = 32.83)

avg of 50
current: 9:05.11 (σ = 39.91)
best: 9:05.11 (σ = 39.91)

avg of 100
current: 10:23.97 (σ = 131.07)
best: 10:23.97 (σ = 131.07)

Average: 10:23.97 (σ = 131.07)
Mean: 10:27.10

Time List:
17:42.23, 17:43.13, 15:21.09, 14:24.78, 18:09.00, 20:46.34, 12:40.91, 16:44.01, 13:23.53, 16:29.84, 16:22.58, 13:53.88, 9:29.94, 12:09.39, 11:43.18, 10:18.16, 11:20.34, 9:43.86, 10:44.18, 10:27.72, 10:04.42, 9:21.94, 9:50.59, 13:09.61, 11:52.95, 13:08.03, 12:49.79, 9:04.96, 10:33.57, 11:43.07, 11:00.37, 10:03.75, 9:33.89, 10:24.34, 10:17.42, 10:11.71, 8:56.77, 10:30.89, 9:09.22, DNF(6.43), 8:58.10, DNF(1:39.86), 9:19.13, 10:10.94, 9:16.36, 11:28.36, 8:47.91, 8:57.85, 10:18.22, 9:23.93, 8:58.63, 8:50.15, 9:28.87, 11:28.47, 8:41.22, 8:26.13, 9:56.16, 9:17.97, 9:31.86, 9:26.36, 8:50.27, 9:19.92, 9:05.45, 9:45.12, 8:26.27, 8:54.04, 10:30.37, 8:59.69, 8:12.75, 7:39.72, 11:35.05, 8:25.00, 9:55.29, 9:29.28, 9:06.15, 10:04.40, 8:31.03, 9:26.94, 8:50.68, 8:21.79, 8:32.40, 9:42.81, 8:50.77, 8:02.41, 9:55.21, 9:44.39, 8:05.09, 9:06.47, 8:33.49, 8:41.25, 8:35.38, DNF(8:03.24), 10:58.85, 9:08.09, 8:37.72, 7:40.92, 9:33.66, 7:59.23, 7:33.67, 8:45.67


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## bubbagrub (Jun 29, 2016)

Second attempt at 4 cube multiblind: 0/4. :-( Oh dear. Lots more practice required, I think...


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## phreaker (Jun 29, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> I may be wrong, but I'll give my opinion anyway, which is based on reason rather than experience.
> 
> I don't see how spring swaps can make a significant difference on a cube where the springs move through such a tiny range of motion. Sure I can pull the corners out a little on my 6x6, but when pulling the edges or layers evenly there is virtually no movement. The puzzle has to be almost tightened to the limit just to stay together.
> 
> ...



Depends on the cube and the springs.

Some cubes, hardly a difference. But on my 42mm Zhanchis... it is a large difference. I could hand all three to you, and you'd know the difference between them. None of them use stock springs. A stock 42mm Zhanchi just feels... way too tight and hard to turn for OH use.

To get it to where it should be you'd have to loosen the screws so much the end caps pop off . That's why people complain about corner caps popping of the 42mm. It is really a spring problem. Get the right springs, and it just doesn't happen.


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## phreaker (Jun 29, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> Interesting, that's counter-intuitive, to me. I would have expected it the other way around. Anyhow, I think the major problem with my cube is not the springs but the lack of skill in the user .



For OH, I find I need a cube that is close to right... otherwise I'm with you on it being the user not the cube .


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## Jason Green (Jun 30, 2016)

After being at camp with my kids for 4 days with basically no internet, I just caught up quickly on the thread. 



mafergut said:


> ...maybe COLL would be a nice next step in alg learning (it would be handy for ZZ OH and 2H and for big cubes also) but I agree that there are lots of things that can be improved in F2L, cross, etc.



As a CFOP solver that knows full OLL/PLL, how exactly would I use COLL, I've wondered about that and never took the time to research it. Would it help with easier OLL cases, or skips, etc?



moralsh said:


> ...about handling nerves, I think @Selkie nails it, focus on doing Cross and first pair slow and after that let the solve flow. You have to deliberately do it, if not, the nerves will take over and control your solve.



When I'm at a comp I usually just focus on a good cross *start*. Usually I plan my whole cross at home, but occasionally I will goof it up pretty badly which I'm scared of at a comp. So if I see the whole cross right away that's good, otherwise I plan two or three pieces and start. I should maybe use a little more time and try harder, but with the nerves I'm worried of getting flustered and really hosing things up. So far it's worked for me. Actually I'd say most solves I still planned the whole cross, but ones I did not I didn't let it bother me.

All this 6x6 talk... anyone want to wager $1000 that my next 6x6 solve will be a PB? I can document the solve however you like (video, etc.). If any takers just let me know and I'll order one right away.


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## JohnnyReggae (Jun 30, 2016)

Jason Green said:


> As a CFOP solver that knows full OLL/PLL, how exactly would I use COLL, I've wondered about that and never took the time to research it. Would it help with easier OLL cases, or skips, etc?


From what I understand the COLL algs could help you getting more PLL skips if the edges are permutated correctly. Also after doing COLL you will be left with either a U, H, or Z perm for a PLL as you will only be left with edges to permutate. The trade-off is learning a bunch of additional algs. Seeing that I've made my way through full OLL and PLL plus some more alternate algs and a bunch of unique OH algs, I think that learning the additional algs is not going to be much of a problem. It's just the recognition of each case that will take some time.

I've also started looking into the ZZ method, and with ZZ you will always have your top edges oriented once your F2L is finished so knowing the COLL algs and the recognition will help. However for now with ZZ I'm using OCLL and PLL


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## Shaky Hands (Jun 30, 2016)

Just back from my holidays with pretty much no practice. Mostly been concentrating on 5x5 since I got back and I've broken all my Average PB's since returning, so there's hope for the next comp there.

Also learned the (Uw2 Rw2 F2 u2 F2 Rw2 Uw2) 5x5 parity algorithm as I was fed up of this case appearing.

Good to see @Selkie making a return to the forum as well. Any chance of a guest appearance at Macclesfield?

Caught up with this thread yesterday. Read it all, too much to respond to as I expected, although...



Jason Green said:


> All this 6x6 talk... anyone want to wager $1000 that my next 6x6 solve will be a PB?



Ha ha.  $1000? Not that anyone has that sort of money going spare, but wow did Brexit destroy the value of the Pound while I was away!  (http://www.xe.com/currencycharts/?from=GBP&to=USD&view=1M for currency junkies.)


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## Lid (Jun 30, 2016)

@Shaky Hands* *I prefer Rw2 F2 U2 r2 U2 F2 Rw2, instead of the Uw2 Rw2 F2 u2 F2 Rw2 Uw2 alg.

6x6 ... still waiting for mine /stickerless/ to get shipped from thecubicle ... hoping to break the 4 min limit once it's here 

(Only got the SS now.)


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## Shaky Hands (Jun 30, 2016)

Lid said:


> @Shaky Hands* *I prefer Rw2 F2 U2 r2 U2 F2 Rw2, instead of the Uw2 Rw2 F2 u2 F2 Rw2 Uw2 alg.



Oh I like that. Will experiment a bit. Thanks for the tip, seems promising.


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## One Wheel (Jun 30, 2016)

Lid said:


> @Shaky Hands* *I prefer Rw2 F2 U2 r2 U2 F2 Rw2, instead of the Uw2 Rw2 F2 u2 F2 Rw2 Uw2 alg.



I haven't bothered learning l2e algs, but for that particular case I use Uw' [flip] Uw Dw [flip] Dw'. Between flipping, slicing, and Rw2 B2 U2 Lw U2 Rw' U2 Rw U2 x U2 Rw U2 Lw' D2 Rw2 x' (parity) I can always solve it, just not necessarily optimally. I got my first sub-4:00 5x5 solve yesterday. How much time would I gain by learning l2e algs? At this point the alg set I'm working on is still OLL. It's been probably 9 months since I started doing OLL and PLL, and I have full PLL and maybe 15 OLLs counting the 2-look ones.


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## JanW (Jun 30, 2016)

cubezz seems to be a lot quicker nowadays. My Cyclone Boys G4 arrived in just 9 days after I placed the order. It's tensioned very unevenly and came completely dry, but I think it will be a decent cube if I can set it up. 

Also got a Qiyi skewb. I have no idea how to solve it though...


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## Shaky Hands (Jun 30, 2016)

One Wheel said:


> I haven't bothered learning l2e algs, but for that particular case I use Uw' [flip] Uw Dw [flip] Dw'. Between flipping, slicing, and Rw2 B2 U2 Lw U2 Rw' U2 Rw U2 x U2 Rw U2 Lw' D2 Rw2 x' (parity) I can always solve it, just not necessarily optimally. I got my first sub-4:00 5x5 solve yesterday. How much time would I gain by learning l2e algs? At this point the alg set I'm working on is still OLL. It's been probably 9 months since I started doing OLL and PLL, and I have full PLL and maybe 15 OLLs counting the 2-look ones.



I learned that case because it was easy to recognise and it was coming up for me a lot recently. Learning more OLL will benefit you more in the long-term, I'm pretty sure, as it can be applied to far more different puzzles.


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## earth2dan (Jun 30, 2016)

One Wheel said:


> I haven't bothered learning l2e algs, but for that particular case I use Uw' [flip] Uw Dw [flip] Dw'. Between flipping, slicing, and Rw2 B2 U2 Lw U2 Rw' U2 Rw U2 x U2 Rw U2 Lw' D2 Rw2 x' (parity) I can always solve it, just not necessarily optimally. I got my first sub-4:00 5x5 solve yesterday. How much time would I gain by learning l2e algs? At this point the alg set I'm working on is still OLL. It's been probably 9 months since I started doing OLL and PLL, and I have full PLL and maybe 15 OLLs counting the 2-look ones.


Same here. The only 5x5 edge alg I ever bothered to learn is the parity alg. Though, I use a completely different parity alg. I use Rw U2 Rw U2 Rw' U2 Rw U2 Lw' U2 Rw U2 Rw' U2 x' Rw' U2 Rw' U2 M'. I found that easy to learn and execute because it's pretty much all Rw U2 moves.



JanW said:


> cubezz seems to be a lot quicker nowadays.


Yep. I've been pretty impressed with cubezz's shipping lately. I used to order from Lightake, but their shipping has become unbearably slow over the last year or so.


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## One Wheel (Jun 30, 2016)

earth2dan said:


> I use Rw U2 Rw U2 Rw' U2 Rw U2 Lw' U2 Rw U2 Rw' U2 x' Rw' U2 Rw' U2 M'.



I really like that alg. My RH U2s are faster than LH, so I'll probably mirror it, but I think I'll learn that one. It's pretty similar to the OLL parity alg I use for even cubes. Thanks!


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## Jason Green (Jun 30, 2016)

JanW said:


> cubezz seems to be a lot quicker nowadays. My Cyclone Boys G4 arrived in just 9 days after I placed the order. It's tensioned very unevenly and came completely dry, but I think it will be a decent cube if I can set it up.
> 
> Also got a Qiyi skewb. I have no idea how to solve it though...


I can solve skewb but I forgot the proper way to do one step. So I just solve a face and then repeat that one alg until it's done. This of course is like once every few weeks.


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## Chree (Jun 30, 2016)

One Wheel said:


> I haven't bothered learning l2e algs... How much time would I gain by learning l2e algs?



Not that much. Maybe a few seconds, depending on how fast you are with the regular parity alg. It's really not important to learn L2E until you wanna break the 2:00ish barrier. After that, I found L2E very helpful (even though I don't know the full set, just enough to get by). But it's worth noting that Aaron LoPrete is sub1:20 and does not use L2E.

Some L2E algs are SWEET though, and are way faster than even the normal Parity alg. My personal favorites are:
- Rw2 F2 U2 Rw2 U2 F2 Rw2
- Rw U2 Rw2 U2 Rw' U2 Rw U2 Rw' U2 Rw2 U2 Rw
- Rw' U2 Rw2 U2 Rw U2 Rw' U2 Rw U2 Rw2 U2 Rw' (F/B mirror of above)
- E' [Flip alg] E (double parity, not actually parity, but easy to recognize)


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## Lid (Jun 30, 2016)

Or you can use the "AvG" alg for parity, [Rw U2] repeat untill the centers are correct again, parity gone -> pair the rest of the edges. (I have a L2E page on my website also.)


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## mark49152 (Jun 30, 2016)

earth2dan said:


> I use Rw U2 Rw U2 Rw' U2 Rw U2 Lw' U2 Rw U2 Rw' U2 x' Rw' U2 Rw' U2 M'.


Can be shortened to Rw U2 Rw U2 Rw' U2 Rw U2 Lw' U2 *3Rw* U2 Rw' U2 x' Rw' U2 Rw'.

The only other L2E algorithm I use is Rw U2 Rw U2 x U2 Rw U2 3Rw' U2 Lw U2 Rw2.

Using AvG it's easy to avoid any other tricky case coming up. The first case above can usually be avoided too.


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## One Wheel (Jun 30, 2016)

Chree said:


> Some L2E algs are SWEET though, and are way faster than even the normal Parity alg. My personal favorites are:
> - Rw2 F2 U2 Rw2 U2 F2 Rw2
> - Rw U2 Rw2 U2 Rw' U2 Rw U2 Rw' U2 Rw2 U2 Rw
> - Rw' U2 Rw2 U2 Rw U2 Rw' U2 Rw U2 Rw2 U2 Rw' (F/B mirror of above)
> - E' [Flip alg] E (double parity, not actually parity, but easy to recognize)



Those are nice. I do use the last one. It's about as close as I've come to independently developing an alg. That and a not-too-great E-perm with lots of w moves to eliminate cube rotations, but there I just copied the basic moves from an existing alg


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## h2f (Jul 1, 2016)

I had a comp tomorrow with big cubes without any limits and cutoffs - sad the biggest is 5x5. I did a session yeterday and with Yau got pretty good times: 1:03 and 1:07 singles and 1:17 ao12.


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## muchacho (Jul 1, 2016)

I thought of buying a gigaminx... but it scares me, I thought better and bought a kilominx (2x2 megaminx), it's so cute.

Good luck Grzegorz!


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## h2f (Jul 1, 2016)

2nd competition weekend in a row. There could be a third but I missed a registration by few hours. http://cubecomps.com/live.php?cid=1629


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## JohnnyReggae (Jul 1, 2016)

JanW said:


> cubezz seems to be a lot quicker nowadays. My Cyclone Boys G4 arrived in just 9 days after I placed the order. It's tensioned very unevenly and came completely dry, but I think it will be a decent cube if I can set it up.


Cubezz is getting a lot quicker. In fact I get my orders from Cubezz quicker than I do from TheCubicle. My cube orders from Cubezz arrive before my sticker orders from TheCubicle.


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## Selkie (Jul 1, 2016)

@Shaky Hands, Sorry Andy I will not be able to make Macclesfield as there is a clash with my home town VW festival but will keep my eyes open for the next one sir


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## Selkie (Jul 1, 2016)

h2f said:


> 2nd competition weekend in a row. There could be a third but I missed a registration by few hours. http://cubecomps.com/live.php?cid=1629



Best of luck


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## MarcelP (Jul 1, 2016)

My first Ao12 after last competition.. I would say I am comfortably sub 19.. why not in competition 



Spoiler: Times



Generated By csTimer on 2016-7-1
avg of 12: 18.66

Time List:
1. 17.15 R2 U D' R2 F R' U2 F R2 D' F2 R2 B2 U L2 D L2 D' L2 F'
2. 18.27 D2 L2 B2 U2 B2 D' L2 U' B2 D' L F' D F D U R2 F' L' R F
3. 19.72 U' L2 U2 L2 F2 D' F2 R2 D' U' B2 L' B2 F L' U2 R B L' R' U2
4. 17.55 D2 R2 B2 U2 B2 F' L2 U2 B U2 R2 D' B' L R' F' U R' F' D'
5. (20.40) B2 R2 U L2 R2 U2 B2 U R2 D R D' L D2 R2 B L D F'
6. (16.07) B2 L2 D' R2 B2 F2 D R2 D' F2 D F' R U2 B' D2 B' F' D' F2 U
7. 19.16 B' R' D F2 U2 R U B2 D' B' R2 F2 R2 U2 R2 F U2 B2 U2 F'
8. 18.21 B' D F2 D2 B2 R2 B2 D' R2 D2 U' L2 F' R2 B U' B2 U2 L D' U'
9. 19.96 L' D' R2 U L2 D' R2 U R2 U2 L2 B2 F L' R' U B L' U2 F2 L
10. 18.20 L' F2 R2 B2 R2 U' L2 D2 U B2 U' F2 B D' R' D2 U' L2 B F L
11. 18.10 R2 U2 R2 B F' R2 D2 F' U2 B' L2 D R' F' U2 B' D' B R2 B2 L2
12. 20.27 U' R2 U' L2 R2 F2 U' R2 D2 R2 U' B' F2 D' F2 L' B2 D B L'







Cube: GuoGuan.. I think main since I get the best times with this cube (even if I do not like it).


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## mark49152 (Jul 1, 2016)

h2f said:


> I had a comp tomorrow with big cubes without any limits and cutoffs - sad the biggest is 5x5. I did a session yeterday and with Yau got pretty good times: 1:03 and 1:07 singles and 1:17 ao12.


On 5x5? That's fast .


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## Jason Green (Jul 1, 2016)

MarcelP said:


> Cube: GuoGuan.. I think main since I get the best times with this cube (even if I do not like it).



Great job! Glad you are using the guoguan, it validates me liking it in my mind.  Better times even than the GTS?


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## newtonbase (Jul 1, 2016)

h2f said:


> I had a comp tomorrow with big cubes without any limits and cutoffs - sad the biggest is 5x5. I did a session yeterday and with Yau got pretty good times: 1:03 and 1:07 singles and 1:17 ao12.


*Pretty *good? They are very good times. Even if you mean 4x4.


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## newtonbase (Jul 1, 2016)

Jason Green said:


> Great job! Glad you are using the guoguan, it validates me liking it in my mind.  Better times even than the GTS?


I've been switching between that, the Weilong GTS and the Thunderclap. I'll do some time comparisons if I get a chance. I have a suspicion that the Thunderclap is best for me but I may be biased as it served me so well it my last comp when I switched to it at the last minute.


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## h2f (Jul 1, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> *Pretty *good? They are very good times. Even if you mean 4x4.



Yes, I meant 4x4.  Thanks both Marks for pointing it out.... Ha!


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## MarcelP (Jul 1, 2016)

Jason Green said:


> Great job! Glad you are using the guoguan, it validates me liking it in my mind.  Better times even than the GTS?


Yeah, I get very fast singles with GTS. I have had a few 11s and a 10. But it is too fast for me to get great averages. It is still a very nice cube and it gives a very nice sensation solving it. But I suspect it is better for people with 10TPS.


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## CLL Smooth (Jul 2, 2016)

MarcelP said:


> My first Ao12 after last competition.. I would say I am comfortably sub 19.. why not in competition


Very nice! Slow turning, casual execution, color neutral and cubing with music for the win!


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## Selkie (Jul 2, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> I've been switching between that, the Weilong GTS and the Thunderclap. I'll do some time comparisons if I get a chance. I have a suspicion that the Thunderclap is best for me but I may be biased as it served me so well it my last comp when I switched to it at the last minute.


A lot to be said for sticking to a cube that has faired well in comp. I switched to my XMen Tornado between rounds 1 and 2 in Exeter and haven't swapped again yet 

@MarcelP NIce average Marcel, I do like your turning style


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## MarcelP (Jul 2, 2016)

CLL Smooth said:


> Very nice! Slow turning, casual execution, color neutral and cubing with music for the win!


I am glad someone recognises the awesomeness  LOL


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## muchacho (Jul 2, 2016)

First sub-40 ao5 on OH, I'm close to being only twice as slow as 3x3 

Single: 31.453
Ao5: 39.938
Ao12: 43.161
Mo100: 48.952


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## mafergut (Jul 2, 2016)

muchacho said:


> First sub-40 ao5 on OH, I'm close to being only twice as slow as 3x3
> 
> Single: 31.453
> Ao5: 39.938
> ...


Congrats! You will be sub me in no time.


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## JanW (Jul 2, 2016)

Crushed my Ao5 pb twice today. First 23.56, about 1 second faster than old pb, then 20 solves later 22.99. Also new Ao12 pb, 26.51, and first sub-20 full step single (headlights and U perm). In total there was 3 sub-20 solves in 100 solves. I would say that I'm now faster with ZZ than I was with my previous technique.

Now I know all of PLL except the G perms. The one that is causing me the most trouble is V perm. I learned it weeks ago, but still keep messing it up. Currently I'm using R' U R' d' R' F' R2 U' R' U R' F R F but I consider looking at other alternatives. The d' is very awkward to execute, can't figure out how to grip the cube and which fingers to use for that move. It disturbs the flow, then I lose track of where I am and where I'm supposed to go. Any good suggestions?


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## Shaky Hands (Jul 3, 2016)

@JanW, I regrip when doing the d' in a V-perm, but Chris Olsen's example of it (second-half of video below) shows this isn't really necessary.


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## CLL Smooth (Jul 3, 2016)

JanW said:


> Crushed my Ao5 pb twice today. First 23.56, about 1 second faster than old pb, then 20 solves later 22.99. Also new Ao12 pb, 26.51, and first sub-20 full step single (headlights and U perm). In total there was 3 sub-20 solves in 100 solves. I would say that I'm now faster with ZZ than I was with my previous technique.
> 
> Now I know all of PLL except the G perms. The one that is causing me the most trouble is V perm. I learned it weeks ago, but still keep messing it up. Currently I'm using R' U R' d' R' F' R2 U' R' U R' F R F but I consider looking at other alternatives. The d' is very awkward to execute, can't figure out how to grip the cube and which fingers to use for that move. It disturbs the flow, then I lose track of where I am and where I'm supposed to go. Any good suggestions?


That's the standard V-perm and I've gone back to using it for 2H but I've always hated it. My OH alg is this: R' U2 R U2 L U' R' U L' U L U' R U L'.
Transposed to RUD it can be pretty nice for 2H: z D' R2 D R2 U R' D' R U' R U R' D R U'


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## Jason Green (Jul 3, 2016)

I had the same problem with small d'. I do basically what Chris' video showed which is start off R' U R' U' with a rotation at the same time, instead of d'.


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## JanW (Jul 3, 2016)

Thanks all! I was looking at that like a pro -video earlier, but couldn't quite figure out what he did there. Now it looks like a regrip at the same time as he rotates and performes U' with left hand. I shall give this a try.


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## newtonbase (Jul 3, 2016)

I do the CYO way too. The left index U' and rotation is much easier but there is still a regrip straight afterwards. I love the flow of the remaining moves.


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## mark49152 (Jul 3, 2016)

V perm: R U' R U R' D R D' R (U' D) R2' U R2 D' R2'

Can be done regripless by doing all U and D moves with left hand, pushing and pulling. Takes a while to get used to it but it flows beautifully


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## mafergut (Jul 3, 2016)

I'm still trying to get used to the way Chris Olson does it after recently changing my V-perm to that one but I think it's a nice way of executing it. Haven't tried the one @mark49152 suggests, though.

Apparently being ill and running a fever helps with 5x5 progress. I just crushed my PB Ao5 and Ao12:
Ao5 improved from 3:27.xx to 3:20.xx with the weekly comp scrambles and later improved again to 3:14.xx
Ao12 improved from 3:30.xx to 3:20.xx


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## JanW (Jul 3, 2016)

Interesting alg @mark49152! It's not in the algdb, but the inverse is. I will try this as well.

In the regular V perm I do the ending a bit different than Chris Olsen. The last R' U R' F R F I instead perform as R' U l' U R U. This is a lot easier to me than doing the F moves the way he does them. The only downside is that it requires a rotation before AUF, or AUF with B face.


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## muchacho (Jul 3, 2016)

I'm improving... sooo slowly...

Ao5: 18.638 (was 18.681 from 9-Jun) solves 2-6 below
Ao12: 20.226 (was 20.272 from 25-Jun)



Spoiler



21961 03-jul-2016 10:42:41 00:19.591 U2 R2 U' B2 L2 B2 U2 F2 D F2 D' L' D' B' D2 U2 B L2 B' R' B2 U2
21960 03-jul-2016 10:41:45 00:22.015 F2 U' L2 D' F2 U2 R2 F2 L2 U B2 L U2 R2 D L' U' R L' U' F D2
21959 03-jul-2016 10:40:52 00:19.847 L2 F2 U B2 U' R2 F2 U F2 D' F2 R' B' R U' L B2 D2 R2 D2 F
21958 03-jul-2016 10:40:07 00:21.015 D2 F2 R2 F2 U F2 U' L2 D' U B' D' R U F' L D' R U2 R2 U'
21957 03-jul-2016 10:38:48 00:21.247 R2 D2 B2 U2 B2 U2 L2 D F2 R2 U R' U' F D' B2 L U2 B D L
21956 03-jul-2016 10:37:50 00:18.894 D' B2 U' R2 F2 R2 L2 D' F2 D' R2 B' R D' R' F L2 U L B'
21955 03-jul-2016 10:37:03 00:16.679 F2 D R2 U2 R2 U' R2 D' R2 U F L U R' B' F' D' B2 F D L'
21954 03-jul-2016 10:36:11 00:20.118 R2 F2 D' R2 D2 L2 U' L2 D B2 D' L B U L2 F2 L2 F' D U2 B
21953 03-jul-2016 10:35:29 00:18.767 L2 D' L2 U' R2 L2 D R2 L2 F2 U B' D' F' U2 L B R B D L'
21952 03-jul-2016 10:34:47 00:18.254 F2 U' F2 R2 U B2 D B2 U' R2 D' B' L D' F' U F L B' U'
21951 03-jul-2016 10:34:02 00:28.526 R2 L2 U R2 B2 U2 R2 U L2 D' R' B' L' B' F2 U' R L' U L U2
21950 03-jul-2016 10:33:17 00:22.512 U F2 D' B2 U2 B2 R2 U R2 F2 U' F D' R U' B' R' D F2 R F


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## mafergut (Jul 3, 2016)

Illness is not working with 4x4 
I seems like I cannot break the 1:30 barrier (global average).

By the way, I have 3 small orders coming. Maybe I will do a delayed "unboxing" video of the dozen or so cubes I bought in the last couple of months. One of the nice things waiting to arrive is the new Shengshou 2x2 Megaminx


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## MarcelP (Jul 3, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> V perm: R U' R U R' D R D' R (U' D) R2' U R2 D' R2'
> 
> Can be done regripless by doing all U and D moves with left hand, pushing and pulling. Takes a while to get used to it but it flows beautifully


Those first 4 moves are too akward for me  the rest is pretty cool.


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## Jason Green (Jul 3, 2016)

MarcelP said:


> Those first 4 moves are too akward for me  the rest is pretty cool.


I just realized your last video did not show up in my subscription feed. That's weird, was it private or something?


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## h2f (Jul 3, 2016)

I got few pbs - in 4x4, 5x5, OH (single) but 3 dnf's in 3bld. Only 2nd solve was off by 2 edges - I took wrong rotation before filipping edges. The first and 3rd were both mess. From a point of view of statistics this means I get mo3 next time. 

My son was 5th in clock with nice ao5 in first round. Both we had a very good time.

http://cubecomps.com/live.php?cid=1629&compid=42


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## muchacho (Jul 3, 2016)

Congrats!

Your son is fast, will he try BLD?


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## h2f (Jul 3, 2016)

@muchacho, Thanks. After many talks which I do for a long time he finally decided to "give a try". We start lessons tomorrow wit Turbo/OP mixture - I know it may be hard but OP/OP is not for him. We were trying it and it didnt work. He managed to make pb ao5 in 3x3 and decided to learn last 25 olls. He stopped practicing a year ago after a failure in clock during Gdańsk Open 2015. I think he needed time to think over it.


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## Jason Green (Jul 3, 2016)

That's great! I didn't recall any of our kids from the oldies cubed. Anyone else? I assume your son is Jakub? Nice job both!

Videos of you or him?


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## bubbagrub (Jul 3, 2016)

Wow -- congrats @h2f and your son -- his times are very impressive!



Jason Green said:


> That's great! I didn't recall any of our kids from the oldies cubed. Anyone else? I assume your son is Jakub? Nice job both!
> Videos of you or him?



My son, Joseph (aged 11) cubes. I taught him when he was about 8. Here's his WCA profile. He could be so much faster if he'd practice more, but Clash of Clans, MineCraft and chess all take precedence for him at the moment...


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## h2f (Jul 3, 2016)

bubbagrub said:


> Wow -- congrats @h2f and your son -- his times are very impressive!
> 
> 
> 
> My son, Joseph (aged 11) cubes. I taught him when he was about 8. Here's his WCA profile. He could be so much faster if he'd practice more, but Clash of Clans, MineCraft and chess all take precedence for him at the moment...




Thanks. I know what you mean - my boy plays CS GO, he also came through Minecraft and all the stuff...


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## mafergut (Jul 3, 2016)

I tried to teach my 12-year old son last year and he managed to get around 40-50 seconds with CFOP 4LLL but then he just lost interest. I am trying to get him into cubing again... unsuccessfully for now.


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## mark49152 (Jul 3, 2016)

MarcelP said:


> Those first 4 moves are too akward for me  the rest is pretty cool.


The trick is to push the U with left index.


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## Chree (Jul 4, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> V perm: R U' R U R' D R D' R (U' D) R2' U R2 D' R2



I always liked the mirror just because it has the same first 4 moves as that standard V. Never did try to make it regrip less though.

R' U R' U' R D' R' D R' (U D') R2 U' R2 D R2


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## MarcelP (Jul 4, 2016)

Jason Green said:


> I just realized your last video did not show up in my subscription feed. That's weird, was it private or something?


No, unlisted.. So you can post the url but it is not found via subscription.


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## h2f (Jul 4, 2016)

MarcelP said:


> No, unlisted.. So you can post the url but it is not found via subscription.



Thats bad cause one has look through this thread to see it. 

BTW I'm just doing ao100 with CFOP just for fun.


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## MarcelP (Jul 4, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> The trick is to push the U with left index.


Maybe you could post an excecution video? My V perm is one of the slowest (3+ secs). I need an improved one 


h2f said:


> Thats bad cause one has look through this thread to see it.
> BTW I'm just doing ao100 with CFOP just for fun.



Nah, I have hundreds of video's online.. I do not want to bother the subscribers too much with averages.. I need to do a Ao100 too. I think I will try wednesday. Post your results please.


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## h2f (Jul 4, 2016)

MarcelP said:


> Nah, I have hundreds of video's online.. I do not want to bother the subscribers too much with averages.. I need to do a Ao100 too. I think I will try wednesday. Post your results please.



It's not one day ao100 - I've started it yesterday during comp and finished today but it shows I'm not so down with CFOP:



Spoiler



solves/total: 100/100

single
best: 17.06
worst: 34.01

mean of 3
current: 22.01 (σ = 2.43)
best: 18.94 (σ = 2.35)

avg of 5
current: 21.88 (σ = 2.24)
best: 19.27 (σ = 2.09)

avg of 12
current: 21.72 (σ = 2.33)
best: 20.63 (σ = 2.24)

avg of 50
current: 22.26 (σ = 2.22)
best: 21.75 (σ = 1.94)

avg of 100
current: 22.11 (σ = 2.20)
best: 22.11 (σ = 2.20)

Average: 22.11 (σ = 2.20)
Mean: 22.26

Time distribution:
16+: 5
18+: 16
20+: 35
22+: 18
24+: 16
26+: 7
28+: 1
30+: 1
32+: 0
34+: 1


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## Selkie (Jul 4, 2016)

@h2f Well done on the Pbs at comp and awesome that your son was competing 

@mark49152 , @Chree - Think I told Mark at comp I suck at any algs with D/D' in them but those V perms have some promise. Going to take a look at them


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## Selkie (Jul 4, 2016)

Beginning to get some of the lost time back following my break. Just got this Ao5, faster than my fastest on video (13.54s) and I believe my 5th fastest average. All but the 10.x were fullstep

Average of 5: 13.44
1. 13.86 B L' F' U2 B2 L F L U' D B2 R' F2 U2 B2 U2 R F2 L B2 R2 
2. 12.43 D' B2 D' B2 R2 D2 U' L2 B2 F2 U2 B' F U' F2 L' U' F2 R D2 U 
3. (14.35) F U L2 U' B U' D R B' D2 L2 B2 R' F2 R U2 F2 B2 R F2 
4. (10.82) L2 B L2 F2 D2 B' D2 F U2 B' U' R2 D2 B L R2 F2 L' 
5. 14.04 U2 F' R2 U2 F D2 B' F2 U2 R2 F' R' B L' U B R' F2 D2 U2 F2


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## mafergut (Jul 4, 2016)

Selkie said:


> Beginning to get some of the lost time back following my break. Just got this Ao5, faster than my fastest on video (13.54s) and I believe my 5th fastest average. All but the 10.x were fullstep
> 
> Average of 5: 13.44
> 1. 13.86 B L' F' U2 B2 L F L U' D B2 R' F2 U2 B2 U2 R F2 L B2 R2
> ...


I feel so slow whenever you post one of these averages


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## mark49152 (Jul 4, 2016)

MarcelP said:


> Maybe you could post an excecution video? My V perm is one of the slowest (3+ secs). I need an improved one


Sure I will try to. Work is busy and I am travelling the next couple of weeks. I still haven't got round to making that Hoya video. I will do both once I get some time. Need to get some practice in for the Macc comp too!


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## earth2dan (Jul 4, 2016)

We had a V-Perm discussion over in the Race to sub-20 thread a couple months back too. The alg I use is similar to the standard one, but a little longer and executed differently. It looks bad on paper, but it flows nicely for me. So far I don't know anyone else that uses this alg, I don't even remember where I learned it...

Here's the alg, and a video I made on how I execute it:
R' U R' U' x z' x R' U R' U' R2 x' U' R' U R U


Spoiler: V-Perm Video


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## Logiqx (Jul 4, 2016)

I've started doing some OH again recently.

I'm averaging a little under 32s but I get the occasional single close to 20s.


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## mafergut (Jul 4, 2016)

Logiqx said:


> I've started doing some OH again recently.
> 
> I'm averaging a little under 32s but I get the occasional single close to 20s.


What did just happen there!!!????!!! You're the OH King in this oldies forum, for sure!
Did you influence that OLL skip or was it just chance? I have good solves where I can finish F2L around the 18 second mark but I have never been able to combine that with any OLL or PLL skips nor even with a simple combo like T-case + A-perm so my PB single is still a high 29s (only sub-30 ever).
Great job!!!


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## MarcelP (Jul 4, 2016)

earth2dan said:


> We had a V-Perm discussion over in the Race to sub-20 thread a couple months back too. The alg I use is similar to the standard one, but a little longer and executed differently. It looks bad on paper, but it flows nicely for me. So far I don't know anyone else that uses this alg, I don't even remember where I learned it...
> 
> Here's the alg, and a video I made on how I execute it:
> R' U R' U' x z' x R' U R' U' R2 x' U' R' U R U
> ...


Dude... That looks very efficient.. I must learn that!


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## Logiqx (Jul 4, 2016)

mafergut said:


> What did just happen there!!!????!!! You're the OH King in this oldies forum, for sure!
> Did you influence that OLL skip or was it just chance? I have good solves where I can finish F2L around the 18 second mark but I have never been able to combine that with any OLL or PLL skips nor even with a simple combo like T-case + A-perm so my PB single is still a high 29s (only sub-30 ever).
> Great job!!!



The OLL skip was just luck. I solved the final F2L pair with U' R2 U2' R U R' U R2.


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## Jason Green (Jul 4, 2016)

@MarcelP I prefer your videos to be public so I don't miss them when I catch up on YouTube. That's something I started doing a few months ago, I have quite a few cube subs so I usually have some to watch each day.  But that's just one opinion.


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## MarcelP (Jul 4, 2016)

My Y perm is my slowest PLL. Who has a great and efficient execution on that?


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## moralsh (Jul 4, 2016)

mafergut said:


> What did just happen there!!!????!!! You're the OH King in this oldies forum, for sure!
> Did you influence that OLL skip or was it just chance? I have good solves where I can finish F2L around the 18 second mark but I have never been able to combine that with any OLL or PLL skips nor even with a simple combo like T-case + A-perm so my PB single is still a high 29s (only sub-30 ever).
> Great job!!!


Better official single and average here thanks to Michael not going to comps lately [emoji13] I'm not far off, though, I'd say I'm around 34-35.

@h2f finally 4x4 average, and a nice one!


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## Logiqx (Jul 4, 2016)

MarcelP said:


> My Y perm is my slowest PLL. Who has a great and efficient execution on that?



I'm pretty happy with my Y-perm. I need to go out now but I will time it when I get home later.


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## mafergut (Jul 4, 2016)

moralsh said:


> Better official single and average here thanks to Michael not going to comps lately [emoji13] I'm not far off, though, I'd say I'm around 34-35.
> 
> @h2f finally 4x4 average, and a nice one!


Sorry, I didn't realize that. So, you are the king of OH, then. Anyway both of you are so much faster than I am... well, not only at OH, to be honest


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## CLL Smooth (Jul 4, 2016)

Logiqx said:


> I've started doing some OH again recently.
> 
> I'm averaging a little under 32s but I get the occasional single close to 20s.


Nice solve. You'll be sub-30 soon with some dedicated practice.


MarcelP said:


> My Y perm is my slowest PLL. Who has a great and efficient execution on that?






This is the Y-perm I use for 2H. It flows better for me than the standard.


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## earth2dan (Jul 4, 2016)

CLL Smooth said:


> This is the Y-perm I use for 2H. It flows better for me than the standard.


This... is my new Y-Perm. Thanks for sharing


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## Logiqx (Jul 4, 2016)

MarcelP said:


> My Y perm is my slowest PLL. Who has a great and efficient execution on that?



Here's a 1.50 mean of 3 (1.48, 1.52, 1.50) with finger tricks.

I'm not warmed up so maybe a tenth or more slower than my best.


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## h2f (Jul 5, 2016)

earth2dan said:


> We had a V-Perm discussion over in the Race to sub-20 thread a couple months back too. The alg I use is similar to the standard one, but a little longer and executed differently. It looks bad on paper, but it flows nicely for me. So far I don't know anyone else that uses this alg, I don't even remember where I learned it...
> 
> Here's the alg, and a video I made on how I execute it:
> R' U R' U' x z' x R' U R' U' R2 x' U' R' U R U
> ...


Thats nice Vperm. I think your execution goes like: R' U R' U' y x l' U R' U' R2 x' U' R' U R z R x' alg.cubing.net. I'm not sure if it's like you do this but I keep this way to understand your fingertricks. Very nice Vperm. Beginning is like Vperm I use, middle is the other way and the finish the same. I cant figure it out properly but it works...

Edit: I rolled my ao5 with CFOP by 0.01 to 17.25.


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## Selkie (Jul 5, 2016)

mafergut said:


> I feel so slow whenever you post one of these averages



Its achievable my anyone in this thread in their 40's to be honest Miguel, looking at you others solve my hands are no faster and it seems from recent posts my PLLs are slower than a lot. I guess its just being sub 20 for over 5 years mate



Logiqx said:


> I've started doing some OH again recently.
> 
> I'm averaging a little under 32s but I get the occasional single close to 20s.



Wow, that is awesome. I got down to sub 45 (in comp and at home) but have not practiced and cannot OH for the life of me now. Even tried at exeter comp and didnt make the 1m cut. Great stuff 



Logiqx said:


> Here's a 1.50 mean of 3 (1.48, 1.52, 1.50) with finger tricks.
> 
> I'm not warmed up so maybe a tenth or more slower than my best.



Admittedly I have not drilled my PLLs for a long time. It is something I should really do to squeeze the next second of improvement to official sub 15 but I remember a while ago I did drill and time all my PLLs, which were all below 2 seconds. My Y perm was the slowest at 1.9x. You are 25% faster than that and so fluid at that speed. This is great motivation for me to do some concentrated PLL work


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## Selkie (Jul 5, 2016)

CLL Smooth said:


> This is the Y-perm I use for 2H. It flows better for me than the standard.



I like this one. Will drill it some and see what the results are. Thanks for sharing


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## mafergut (Jul 5, 2016)

@earth2dan, In case you're wondering what happened to me last week in the race to sub-20, I am having another of those "going backwards" periods with 3x3. My Yuexiao feels looser and looser and I lock up a lot, I cleaned and lubed my Tanglong but the results left a lot to be desired and now it feels unstable even when tightened up, my old and comfy Chilong needs some cleaning as well so I am back to my Yueying. Anyway, it looks like the lack of practice and / or the big cube practice is having an impact in my 3x3 times and as I'm not CN with big cubes, CN 3x3 solving has suffered the most.
So last week I got like a low 21.xx average that I didn't even post on the thread (I hope you don't mind it) and my warm-up times for this week are not looking any better, with lots of sup-23s solves on non-white/yellow crosses. Not sure at the moment whether I should try to stick to full CN or just forget about it and go back to just dual CN. In any case my lookahead is nowhere to be seen these days.
Yeah, I know, this looks like a personal message but I just wanted to share it here with you all. Just doing that makes me feel a bit better. Having been ill this weekend is also not helping with my optimism right now


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## h2f (Jul 5, 2016)

I did ao100 today with CFOP. I'm surprised because I feel like I've improved since switch - ao100 is 20.36 but 45 times are below 20 seconds barrier and I got few nice 15-16 solves without any skips. 



Spoiler



Generated By csTimer on 2016-7-5
solves/total: 100/100

single
best: 15.09
worst: 30.00

mean of 3
current: 19.80 (σ = 1.81)
best: 17.25 (σ = 1.52)

avg of 5
current: 19.36 (σ = 1.05)
best: 17.25 (σ = 1.52)

avg of 12
current: 20.06 (σ = 1.16)
best: 18.97 (σ = 1.12)

avg of 50
current: 20.09 (σ = 1.61)
best: 20.08 (σ = 1.81)

avg of 100
current: 20.36 (σ = 1.88)
best: 20.36 (σ = 1.88)

Average: 20.36 (σ = 1.88)
Mean: 20.48
time distribution:
14+: 2
16+: 12
18+: 31
20+: 34
22+: 11
24+: 7
26+: 2
28+: 0
30+: 1



@mafergut, maybe You need a little break?


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## Schmidt (Jul 5, 2016)

First time in awhile again. You might be able to beat my 4x4x4 this time, Marcel 
https://www.speedsolving.com/competitions/index.php?showPerson=127


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## muchacho (Jul 5, 2016)

First sub-20 ao12: 19.858 (it was 20.226 from 3-jul)

At some point I was expecting to be sub-20 after practicing 3x3 for a year, but at another point I just was hoping for being sub-30, so I should be happy about having a sub-20 ao12 



Spoiler



22142 05-jul-2016 16:20:41 00:18.943 R2 D B2 L2 F2 D R2 D' L2 D' F U B' R D U L' D L2 U L'
22141 05-jul-2016 16:19:50 00:19.166 R2 D' B2 F2 U' B2 R2 B2 U' R2 U' B' L F R L' B2 U' B' U' B
22140 05-jul-2016 16:19:09 00:15.788 R2 B2 R2 L2 U' B2 D' R2 D' F2 R2 F' L' U' B F L2 B2 D L' D' U'
22139 05-jul-2016 16:18:14 00:21.078 L2 B2 D' R2 U R2 F2 D B2 L F' R2 D U' R' D' U' B D' F'
22138 05-jul-2016 16:17:25 00:21.575 L2 F2 L2 F2 D' R2 U2 B2 U F2 D F D2 R' L2 D' B R2 B2 D2 R
22137 05-jul-2016 16:16:41 00:21.360 F2 D' B2 R2 D L2 D L2 U B2 U2 F R2 B U' F R' D L D' B U2
22136 05-jul-2016 16:15:56 00:17.680 R2 D2 L2 D' R2 U2 B2 D L2 U R2 B R' L' U' B' D2 R L' D2 F' D2
22135 05-jul-2016 16:15:18 00:19.062 D R2 U R2 D F2 U2 B2 U' R' B R2 L D2 B' D U2 L U R2 U2
22134 05-jul-2016 16:14:36 00:17.382 U2 L2 D R2 U' F2 D2 B2 U L D2 L2 D' R B L F2 D R2 D'
22133 05-jul-2016 16:13:53 00:20.822 L2 D2 L2 F2 R2 D B2 U' R2 B2 R B F2 D F' U2 L D2 L' B2 U'
22132 05-jul-2016 16:13:11 00:21.518 U' L2 U F2 D' B2 L2 D B2 F2 D' L F R2 L2 D B' U' L U' L2 U'
22131 05-jul-2016 16:12:25 00:23.607 D B2 D' B2 D2 L2 U' L2 U2 B2 U2 R' F' U' B L' F D2 R' B' R' U'


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## CLL Smooth (Jul 5, 2016)

muchacho said:


> First sub-20 ao12: 19.858 (it was 20.226 from 3-jul)
> 
> At some point I was expecting to be sub-20 after practicing 3x3 for a year, but at another point I just was hoping for being sub-30, so I should be happy about having a sub-20 ao12
> 
> ...


Congrats! I looked at my records recently. Took me about a year to get a sub-20 single. And another year to get sub-20 Ao100.


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## earth2dan (Jul 5, 2016)

h2f said:


> Thats nice Vperm. I think your execution goes like: R' U R' U' y x l' U R' U' R2 x' U' R' U R z R x' alg.cubing.net. I'm not sure if it's like you do this but I keep this way to understand your fingertricks. Very nice Vperm. Beginning is like Vperm I use, middle is the other way and the finish the same. I cant figure it out properly but it works...


Ah, that's an interesting variation. I used alg.cubing.net to clean up my alg to look a little more like the way I execute it.
R' U R' U' y x2 R' U R' U' R2 x' U' R' U R U x' y' alg.cubing.net

Edit: upon further review I think your x l' is closer to my fingertricks than the x2 R' in my alg... I think the way I wrote the alg is the way I learned it, then over the years I've improved my fingertricks to do it more efficiently.

@mafergut No worries, I'm sure 3x3 will come back quickly once you shift focus again. If you're having fun with big cubes, focus on big cubes . My 4x4 times have decreased lately as I've taken a big break from it because I just wasn't enjoying it. I know I'll get back to it, but for now I'm all about 3/5/6 because those are the puzzles I'm having fun with.

I found I had to tighten up my YueXiao a bit to fight the lockups, and when solving with the YueXiao I definitely have a different turning style that takes some time to adjust to each time I switch. I think if you're going to main with the YueXiao, it has to be 100%. I've been in 3x3 limbo for months, unable to pick the 3x3 I like best. I'll find from one day to the next that it changes. Though, I just got the Weilong GTS and I really like it right out of the box. I think, once set up, the GTS has real potential to become my uncontested #1. We shall see. (too bad it's not stickerless)


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## mafergut (Jul 5, 2016)

h2f said:


> @mafergut, maybe You need a little break?



It's not like I'm sick and tired of cubing because, to be honest, I cannot practise as much as I used to lately due to being quite busy at work. Also, taking a break has never worked for me, like some people that say "I quit cubing for a month and when I came back I was 1 second faster". Not a chance of that happening to me .

I think it makes a big difference for me to feel comfortable with the cube and all this changes between Yuexiao, Tanglong... have messed up a bit my turning. In my pause for lunch I had some time with my Yueying to get the feeling of the cube again after not using it for a long time, tried to concentrate in lookahead and had a short run of good solves, no more than an Ao12, sadly and I even got a 13.62 (with OLL skip) on blue cross, which is my fastest CN solve of all time. But, alas, my lookahead soon went away and I returned to sup-20 times. Maybe I just need more slow solves and forget about the timer for a long while, at least on 3x3.

Nice Ao12, @muchacho, David.

@earth2dan, thanks for the feedback. If I was sure that the GTS was going to be "the one" for me I wouldn't mind paying to TheCubicle for the premium version with my sticker shades already installed, lubed and all. According to CrazyBad Cuber it is great as they lube & tension it. But I'm afraid that it will be yet another 3x3. I agree with what you say about having to adapt to the Yuexiao. That would mean for me to abandon it completely, I don't want to get so used to one cube that it makes me significantly slower with any other.


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## Selkie (Jul 5, 2016)

@mafergut It can be tough on a plateau Migual. I found it can knock your confidence leading to what appears to be slower solves. In my humble opinion the slow times are more confidence than anything and hopefully you should see improvement soon.

@h2f Very nice Grzegorz. I have heard other say concentrating on another method has helped others though a better understanding of the cube amongt other things. Excellent 

@muchacho , Awesome David. Always feels so good to reach a milestone like that


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## mafergut (Jul 5, 2016)

Selkie said:


> @mafergut It can be tough on a plateau Migual. I found it can knock your confidence leading to what appears to be slower solves. In my humble opinion the slow times are more confidence than anything and hopefully you should see improvement soon.



Thanks, Chris. Yeah, it's tough and a year ago I was just solving 3x3 and just casually 2x2 but right now I'm into so many events I just can't cope. I'm sure lack of confidence has a lot to do with this and maybe is the underlying reason. The visible effects are, though, lack of lookahead and sloppy turning during LL (even mixing up OLLs for similar cases).


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## earth2dan (Jul 5, 2016)

mafergut said:


> If I was sure that the GTS was going to be "the one" for me I wouldn't mind paying to TheCubicle for the premium version with my sticker shades already installed, lubed and all


I've seriously considered ordering one of their premium 3x3's a few times. Though, I think I'm pretty good at setting up my 3x3's, so it's become one of those "when I have an extra $10 to burn on a 3x3" things...


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## mafergut (Jul 5, 2016)

earth2dan said:


> I've seriously considered ordering one of their premium 3x3's a few times. Though, I think I'm pretty good at setting up my 3x3's, so it's become one of those "when I have an extra $10 to burn on a 3x3" things...


I thought I was good setting up my 3x3s but I completely failed with the Tanglong and I don't have that much time anymore so I have stopped ordering custom sticker sets and I just adapted to Moyu shades. I will have to clean the Tanglong and try with thicker lube and again that takes time from actually solving. I ordered a Premium one once just to try it but it was the Meiying and, to be honest, it's crazy fast and unstable, even after I tightened it up... a lot.


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## Jason Green (Jul 5, 2016)

earth2dan said:


> I've seriously considered ordering one of their premium 3x3's a few times. Though, I think I'm pretty good at setting up my 3x3's, so it's become one of those "when I have an extra $10 to burn on a 3x3" things...


I thought they were just like $3 more. Anyway I think I'll get one next time. I'm not great at setting them up, and just having my stickers on is probably worth it for me. My only fear is it will need maintenance and won't be as good, but that's no big deal.


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## earth2dan (Jul 5, 2016)

Jason Green said:


> I thought they were just like $3 more. Anyway I think I'll get one next time. I'm not great at setting them up, and just having my stickers on is probably worth it for me. My only fear is it will need maintenance and won't be as good, but that's no big deal.


They're mostly $7 more, and with the exchange that's closer to $10 for me . I think the Gans 356 is the only exception because it's already so expensive they cut some slack on that one.

I'm sure it's worth it. The stickers will run you $2-3, plus there's the time it takes you to clean/lube/resticker. I'm sure if you give your time a dollar value you're saving money with a premium cube, and it might be set up better than you could do yourself. If I'm happy with my GTS after I set it up, I'll consider ordering a premium one just to see what all the fuss is about


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## h2f (Jul 5, 2016)

David @muchacho, congrats!



Selkie said:


> @h2f Very nice Grzegorz. I have heard other say concentrating on another method has helped others though a better understanding of the cube amongt other things. Excellent



Thanks. Yes, I think my understanding of CFOP is deeper. I start using yellow on bottom and there's no big difference for me. Roux has another type of lookahead but it influences nicely on CFOP - for example it's much easier for me to find first pair even if i didnt track it. And I think it's a kind of mental barrier. I've started to think of myself as "being sub20" and it works.


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## Jason Green (Jul 5, 2016)

I want to write a long post about mental barriers and age, but I haven't taken the time.


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## mafergut (Jul 5, 2016)

Jason Green said:


> I want to write a long post about mental barriers and age, but I haven't taken the time.


Oh man, I am in need of something like that right now . I just had to push myself to do the race to sub-20 Ao12 and got a 20.83.


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## MarcelP (Jul 5, 2016)

Logiqx said:


> Here's a 1.50 mean of 3 (1.48, 1.52, 1.50) with finger tricks.
> 
> I'm not warmed up so maybe a tenth or more slower than my best.


That`s pretty fast. I think I need to work on my last layer. I am really a lot slower than that.


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## MarcelP (Jul 5, 2016)

Schmidt said:


> First time in awhile again. You might be able to beat my 4x4x4 this time, Marcel
> https://www.speedsolving.com/competitions/index.php?showPerson=127


 I did an official avg of 1.45 a week ago with 10 parities. I think if I focus I could beat you this round.


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## Schmidt (Jul 5, 2016)

This one had 7 or 8 parities so you should be able to beat it 

EDIT: Better than 1:45.80?


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## mafergut (Jul 5, 2016)

I just tried to tighten up a bit my Yuexiao and with just half a turn of the screw the corner cutting goes away, to the point of it not even cutting 45º so I had to loosen it a quarter turn. It is strange that a cube that still feels kinda loose can change so drastically with just a tiny tension adjustment. It looks like now it locks up a bit less on the corners but the fluidity of it's turning has ben partially lost as now corner cutting requires a bit more effort.


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## MarcelP (Jul 5, 2016)

Schmidt said:


> This one had 7 or 8 parities so you should be able to beat it
> 
> EDIT: Better than 1:45.80?


Yup


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## MarcelP (Jul 5, 2016)

mafergut said:


> I just tried to tighten up a bit my Yuexiao and with just half a turn of the screw the corner cutting goes away, to the point of it not even cutting 45º so I had to loosen it a quarter turn. It is strange that a cube that still feels kinda loose can change so drastically with just a tiny tension adjustment. It looks like now it locks up a bit less on the corners but the fluidity of it's turning has ben partially lost as now corner cutting requires a bit more effort.


I filed down the sharp point of the corners and it locks 95% less than without that mod. It is my current main since it is the best controllable cube I have that also can go very fast if needed.


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## mafergut (Jul 5, 2016)

MarcelP said:


> I filed down the sharp point of the corners and it locks 95% less than without that mod. It is my current main since it is the best controllable cube I have that also can go very fast if needed.


Thanks! Did you change tensions and lubed it as well? I was shocked about how delicate was the balance of the cube to tiny changes in tensions. I might end up applying your mod to mine.
Right now I'm playing around with a Hualong. A ver good cube that was probably underestimated because of the flood of good cubes of this last year. I was using it for OH until I got the Tanglong but right now it feels much better than my recently lubed Tanglong.

By the way, fastest Y-perm I could time in like a dozen tries was 1.86. Most of the were sup-2, though.


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## newtonbase (Jul 5, 2016)

Macclesfield schedule is up. I'll be done by lunchtime on Sunday unless something goes very right in 3x3. I could always hang on for OH if I haven't got a PB by then (which is a distinct possibility).


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## Shaky Hands (Jul 5, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> Macclesfield schedule is up. I'll be done by lunchtime on Sunday unless something goes very right in 3x3. I could always hang on for OH if I haven't got a PB by then (which is a distinct possibility).



Early start for FMC on the Saturday. Will see if I make it for that.

I might make a token entry in OH, even though I've only successfully solved it with one hand 20 times in my life and that's solely due to the Weekly Competition. I should still be able to beat the hard cut.


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## MarcelP (Jul 6, 2016)

mafergut said:


> Thanks! Did you change tensions and lubed it as well?



Yup, I always tension cubes up to the point where they cut 45 degrees, but where they do not cut 46 degrees. I learned that from a tensioning video back in the Dayan Zhanchi days. Works well for all cubes. And for my GTS not to cut 46 degrees it is very very tight, but the GuoGuan is not tight and not loose.


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## mafergut (Jul 6, 2016)

MarcelP said:


> Yup, I always tension cubes up to the point where they cut 45 degrees, but where they do not cut 46 degrees. I learned that from a tensioning video back in the Dayan Zhanchi days. Works well for all cubes. And for my GTS not to cut 46 degrees it is very very tight, but the GuoGuan is not tight and not loose.


Thanks a lot for the feedback. I will try that. What surprised me is how much of a difference it made half a turn of the screws for the Yuexiao compared to other cubes in terms of corner cutting.


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## mark49152 (Jul 6, 2016)

Selkie said:


> I like this one. Will drill it some and see what the results are. Thanks for sharing


That's the Y perm I've used for 3+ years. Its great. Originally posted by jskyler91, I think. When I learned BLD I found that I liked the regular Y perm just as much, and considered switching. The main reason I didn't switch is because I didn't want to confuse muscle memory and end up doing the training F' during BLD OP. I do use the regular Y perm on bigger cubes where muscle memory isn't as strong.


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## JanW (Jul 6, 2016)

The PLL videos you guys post here are really impressive! Hopefully I can get to similar tps with enough practice. I'm currently at 19/21 PLL algs learned, 2 G-perms missing. I tried doing a PLL attack with the 19 algs I know. After a few tries, and learning the order I wanted to execute them, I eventually got a 1:12. That's about 3.8 seconds per alg...  Back to practice it is.

Do you all use the same alg in 4 different versions for the G-perms, or completely different algs for some cases? I learned R2 u R' U R' U' R u' R2 y' R' U R and the same backwards for Ga and Gb. I'm now considering if I should learn the inverses of those for Gc and Gd, with more risk of confusion between 4 very similar algs, or go for something completely different. I think D R2' U' R U' R U R' U R2 U D' R U' R' could also be pretty fast, for example.


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## SenorJuan (Jul 6, 2016)

Quote:"What surprised me is how much of a difference it made half a turn of the screws"
I've seen several different types of screw used in cubes:
Regular M3 metric 'for metal' thread
Regular 'Plastite' plastic-fixing screws - a coarse thread
Twin-start Plastite, much coarser thread, eg. 48-2, or HiLo type.
These all give significantly different axial movement for a given rotation. And there are brand-to-brand differences in the plastic-specific fasteners.
http://www.shakeproof.com/products/threaded/hi-lo.html
http://apexfasteners.com/fasteners/thread-forming-screws/thread-forming-for-plastic/plastite


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## mafergut (Jul 6, 2016)

JanW said:


> The PLL videos you guys post here are really impressive! Hopefully I can get to similar tps with enough practice. I'm currently at 19/21 PLL algs learned, 2 G-perms missing. I tried doing a PLL attack with the 19 algs I know. After a few tries, and learning the order I wanted to execute them, I eventually got a 1:12. That's about 3.8 seconds per alg...  Back to practice it is.
> 
> Do you all use the same alg in 4 different versions for the G-perms, or completely different algs for some cases? I learned R2 u R' U R' U' R u' R2 y' R' U R and the same backwards for Ga and Gb. I'm now considering if I should learn the inverses of those for Gc and Gd, with more risk of confusion between 4 very similar algs, or go for something completely different. I think D R2' U' R U' R U R' U R2 U D' R U' R' could also be pretty fast, for example.


I just learned the inverses and mirrors and, in fact, learned the 4 algs in one day. I don't think there's a risk of mixing them up but maybe there are better algs out there. I just learned those because at the time it felt convenient but now I'm stuck with them. Chris Olson has some alternative algs for some of the G-perms that you might want to check out in his "X-perm like a pro" series.

@SenorJuan, wow! You really know about nuts and bolts my friend. To be honest I have not checked out the internals as these new cores that the Yuxiao comes with, similar to the Gans "octopus" seem a bit scary  But probably you're right and it's just that the "slope" of the screw is different. Bad thing is that properly adjusting the tensions and getting them even becomes much more difficult.


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## moralsh (Jul 6, 2016)

@mafergut, I've been somehow stuck with my official average of 20.16 for 15 months until last comp in which I bested it by 2 tenths, however I always felt like I was improving while practicing at home but I never was able to get a good long average (>25 solves) I always messed up somehow.

I've always shifted my interest to another event whenever I felt I was stuck at any other category and it has helped me in improving my all around ranks.

But this week something has happened, suddenly I have improved lookahead a lot. Monday I did my first sub 20 Mean of 100 (19.75) and yesterday my first sub 18 ao12 (17.90), all of a sudden I can sub 18 Ao5 at will.

I just don't understand how improving works, not at all 

@muchacho, nice aveage!


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## JanW (Jul 6, 2016)

mafergut said:


> I just learned the inverses and mirrors and, in fact, learned the 4 algs in one day. I don't think there's a risk of mixing them up but maybe there are better algs out there. I just learned those because at the time it felt convenient but now I'm stuck with them. Chris Olson has some alternative algs for some of the G-perms that you might want to check out in his "X-perm like a pro" series.


For the Gd perm, which he calls his favorite G perm, he uses the alg I'm considering. Except that I would maybe place the D' at the start instead of the end of the alg.

Had an amazing round in the Race to Sub-30. New Ao12 PB 25.43 and Ao5 PB 22.61. Now it's time to focus on the race to Sub-25.  Once I complete that with ZZ, I might consider giving it a shot with CFOP as well. If I can learn to associate the CPEOLL algs I used earlier with the correct OLL case, I should already know about 20 OLL algs, including those with edges oriented.


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## MarcelP (Jul 6, 2016)

moralsh said:


> But this week something has happened, suddenly I have improved lookahead a lot. Monday I did my first sub 20 Mean of 100 (19.75) and yesterday my first sub 18 ao12 (17.90), all of a sudden I can sub 18 Ao5 at will.
> 
> I just don't understand how improving works, not at all


Good stuff Raoul! Be sure to make a real jump in progress the next few months by practicing every day 3X3


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## mafergut (Jul 6, 2016)

@moralsh Raúl, thanks for your encouragement. I certainly don't know how improvement works either but I still have the will to improve so not a chance I'm quitting cubing for now  Regarding shifting interest to another event that's what I keep doing and now I have many more that got me interested so no problem there either.

Congratulations on your newfound lookahead skills. Now go for a sub-19 or sub-18 Ao5 in comp, c'mon!

@JanW, I saw that a moment ago. Nice results!


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## h2f (Jul 6, 2016)

Strange cases - yesterday I got two PLL skips in a row. Today I got it once again doing my best ao12 so far - 18.31.


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## muchacho (Jul 6, 2016)

So no more love for Roux?


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## h2f (Jul 6, 2016)

He he. We are still in love... And Roux helped me to improve. I hope for "vice versa" process to improve with Roux.


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## h2f (Jul 6, 2016)

I must say one more thing - a lot of people in a recent time asked me why I have a slow tps. These voices came from young and fast cubers like Czapiewski, Tokarski etc. I was so focused on lookahead that I forgot about it. So I decided to speed up my tps cause I think my muscle memory includes almost all of f2l cases. That was the reason I've started back CFOP - just to see if it works. I think all these practice sessions which include slow turning etc. are imporatant but one cant forget that this is called speedsolving.  I think it's a matter of balance between speed and slow. I've noticed that in my good solves like 15.xx or 16.xx I'm fast and my lookahead is good. In slower I lock up, lose lookahead, bad recognize olls and plls etc.


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## mafergut (Jul 6, 2016)

h2f said:


> I must say one more thing - a lot of people in a recent time asked me why I have a slow tps. These voices came from young and fast cubers like Czapiewski, Tokarski etc. I was so focused on lookahead that I forgot about it. So I decided to speed up my tps cause I think my muscle memory includes almost all of f2l cases. That was the reason I've started back CFOP - just to see if it works. I think all these practice sessions which include slow turning etc. are imporatant but one cant forget that this is called speedsolving.  I think it's a matter of balance between speed and slow. I've noticed that in my good solves like 15.xx or 16.xx I'm fast and my lookahead is good. In slower I lock up, lose lookahead, bad recognize olls and plls etc.


Happens to me as well. When slow solving I don't usually get any better than 17-18 seconds. It's only by combining good lookahead and a speedier TPS when I can get down to 13-15. Of course that's only in lucky solves. Most of the time trying to rush too much only ends up in bad lookahead and worse times.

By the way, I made a "void" cube yesterday by removing the center stickers of a Yuxin 3x3 that I was not using anyway. It is a nice and speedsolvable void cube, much better than Rubik's one, even if it's not truly void  I had to learn an alg to deal with parity, though. Maybe I'll feature it in my planned unboxing video.

By the way #2, XMD Galaxy already available in some stores, including Lightake for those interested. I'm gonna wait until I receive the SS Aurora. If it is good enough I might pass on the Galaxy.


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## Shaky Hands (Jul 6, 2016)

JanW said:


> Had an amazing round in the Race to Sub-30. New Ao12 PB 25.43 and Ao5 PB 22.61. Now it's time to focus on the race to Sub-25.  Once I complete that with ZZ, I might consider giving it a shot with CFOP as well. If I can learn to associate the CPEOLL algs I used earlier with the correct OLL case, I should already know about 20 OLL algs, including those with edges oriented.



Well done Jan. They were mostly good scrambles this week for CFOP white cross I thought.


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## JanW (Jul 6, 2016)

Shaky Hands said:


> Well done Jan. They were mostly good scrambles this week for CFOP white cross I thought.


They were quite good for ZZ yellow top, blue front as well. At least two scrambles with only 2 bad edges, if I recall correctly. Though there was indeed some scrambles that made me wish I was doing CFOP instead. Some very easy white crosses there.


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## h2f (Jul 6, 2016)

I just finished 3rd ao100 during last 3 days. First sub20: 19.90 including pb ao12: 18.31. 


Spoiler



enerated By csTimer on 2016-7-6
solves/total: 100/100

single
best: 15.76
worst: 26.44

mean of 3
current: 20.54 (σ = 1.25)
best: 17.10 (σ = 0.19)

avg of 5
current: 19.15 (σ = 1.26)
best: 17.27 (σ = 0.19)

avg of 12
current: 19.95 (σ = 1.38)
best: 18.31 (σ = 1.24)

avg of 50
current: 19.89 (σ = 1.65)
best: 19.46 (σ = 1.74)

avg of 100
current: 19.90 (σ = 1.89)
best: 19.90 (σ = 1.89)

Average: 19.90 (σ = 1.89)
Mean: 20.00

14+: 2
16+: 21
18+: 31
20+: 27
22+: 13
24+: 4
26+: 2


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## earth2dan (Jul 6, 2016)

Slow day at the office so as an experiment I just lined up 6 different 3x3's and did 20 solves each. Set new PBs for 5,12,50, and an AO100 of 19.52. Finally a sub-20 AO100!!!

YueXiao (stickered): 20.39
YueXiao (stickerless): 18.92
X-Man Tornado (stickerless): 19.30
Weilong GTS: 20.05
Gans 356: 19.12
Gans 356s V2 Master: 18.15

I haven't set up my GTS yet, so it's still a little too fast and unstable out of the box. I had 3 solves with the GTS where I botched last layer algs because it's just too uncontrollable.

My best average was with my new Gans 356s V2 Master (that's a mouthful). It too is straight out of the box, no set up. It's really nice.

I also lubed and tensioned my new Yuxin 4x4. It's really nice now, though I wouldn't say it's any better than a nicely set up and broken in AoSu or G4. It's the smoothest feeling, and quietest of the 3, so it would probably make for a nice car/travel 4x4. As for picking a main 4x4, I'm stuck in limbo just like 3x3...


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## h2f (Jul 6, 2016)

Nice times!


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## mafergut (Jul 6, 2016)

Congrats on the sub-20 Ao100!!! So many people agree that the Gans 356 is one of the best cubes... just the one I don't have


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## earth2dan (Jul 6, 2016)

Thanks! I decided to do a little 4x4 and 5x5 while I was hot, and that paid off with more PB's. New 5,12 PB's for 4x4 and I cleaned the board with 5x5. New PB Single, 5, 12, 50, and 100 (Though the 50 and 100 include solves from previous sessions).

I didn't expect the 4x4 times, because I've been slow at 4x4 lately. I guess I was just on today.


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## muchacho (Jul 7, 2016)

Mission accomplished, sub-40 OH Ao12... but I won't stop now, sub-40 Mo100 or sub-35 Ao12 look doable.

Ao5: 37.221
Ao12: 39.917
Mo100: 46.363


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## JanW (Jul 7, 2016)

Nice times muchacho! I'm sure you'll reach your goals soon!

For the first time ever I tried solving with timed inspection using cstimer. Wow that is stressful! First solve was a DNF as I got totally thrown off by a voice calling out "8 seconds" and what felt like 1.5 seconds later it said "12 seconds". Took a while to get used to hearing those calls without being disturbed. After some practice I found that I can plan edge orientation pretty well in 15 seconds but about 50% of scrambles I can't completely work out the movements of the EOLine edges and have to track those during edge orientation. And overall I feel a lot more stress during the solves as the start feels kind of rushed. I will need a lot of practice with this if I'm ever going to go to a comp. If I can get used to planning EOLine during inspection, then planning the cross should be a piece of cake, in case I ever switch back to a cross first method.

The scrambles in cstimer feel different to those I'm used to. Some of them have very few B or F moves that aren't 180 degree turns. There was a couple of scrambles where I knew after finishing the scramble, without looking at the cube, exactly how many bad edges there would be. Feels kind of like cheating...


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## JohnnyReggae (Jul 7, 2016)

Managed a 3x3 PB last night of 10.68  Quite lucky in the end with a last layer skip, my first, but I'm taking it anyway  Almost 2 seconds off my previous PB of 12.44 which I got in November last year, although that one only had a PLL skip.

Did a reconstruction, which I've been doing for all my sub15's these days, and noticed a couple pairs which I clearly did not even see during my inspection as I was focused on my cross. Worked out well in the end.

https://alg.cubing.net/?setup=R2_D_B2_R2_B2_L2_D_U2_F2_L2_D_B-_U_F2_L-_F2_D-_B_D_L_D&alg=z2_//_inspection D-_B-_D-_B-_L-_D_F-_D-_//_cross y_U_R-_U_R_//_1st y_U-_F-_U-_L-_U_L_F_L-_U_L_//_2nd y_U_R_U-_R-_U_R_U-_R-_y_R_U-_R-_//_3rd_&_4th_with_LL_skip //[email protected]_3.1tps


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## muchacho (Jul 7, 2016)

Wow congrats!!!


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## mafergut (Jul 7, 2016)

So fast all of you!!! And improving greatly. Congrats to the 3 of you on your PBs: @earth2dan, @muchacho, @JohnnyReggae. And @JanW, great that you're getting used to the 15 second inspection. I can't stand that csTimer voice telling me 8 seconds...


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## muchacho (Jul 7, 2016)

The voices are embedded in http://www.cstimer.net/js/cstimer.js ...I guess you could record your own voice and use it in a modified version of cstimer... then you won't stand your voice telling you 8 seconds


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## JanW (Jul 7, 2016)

It will take some time to get used to timed inspection. First A050 was a not very impressive 32.79. Some sup-50 solves in there and even one sup-60 to push up the average. But also 26.xx Ao5, some sub-30 Ao12s and a 20.02 single. Especially happy about the single as it wasn't a very "easy" solve. 6 bad edges and no skips.

The nice thing about it is that the solves/hour should go up quite a bit. It's easy to get into the rhythm of scramble, start inspection, solve, scramble again. I'll give it a few hundred solves and hopefully see some improvement.

Does cstimer save all times between sessions? Or should I export my sessions and save them somewhere else?


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## Selkie (Jul 7, 2016)

earth2dan said:


> I've seriously considered ordering one of their premium 3x3's a few times. Though, I think I'm pretty good at setting up my 3x3's, so it's become one of those "when I have an extra $10 to burn on a 3x3" things...



I purchased a YueXiao premium back in February. It was a nice nice cube granted but I didnt feel it was better than one I had previously setup with @MarcelP 's mod 



moralsh said:


> But this week something has happened, suddenly I have improved lookahead a lot. Monday I did my first sub 20 Mean of 100 (19.75) and yesterday my first sub 18 ao12 (17.90), all of a sudden I can sub 18 Ao5 at will.



Fantastic Raul 



h2f said:


> Strange cases - yesterday I got two PLL skips in a row. Today I got it once again doing my best ao12 so far - 18.31.



Some more awesome mature 3x3 PBs mate 



h2f said:


> I must say one more thing - a lot of people in a recent time asked me why I have a slow tps. These voices came from young and fast cubers like Czapiewski, Tokarski etc. I was so focused on lookahead that I forgot about it. So I decided to speed up my tps cause I think my muscle memory includes almost all of f2l cases.



I have struggled with TPS for years. In comp if I try and turn faster I get much worse solves. take last comp, Exeter Open. Full TPS in round 1 average >18 second average. Slowed right down for round 2 and got <16 second average. One thing that does help is in practice I regularly do full tps sessions to keep my speed up but all my sub 14 second averages have very slow turning up to 3rd F2L pair.



earth2dan said:


> Slow day at the office so as an experiment I just lined up 6 different 3x3's and did 20 solves each. Set new PBs for 5,12,50, and an AO100 of 19.52. Finally a sub-20 AO100!!!
> 
> YueXiao (stickered): 20.39
> YueXiao (stickerless): 18.92
> ...



Nice to see the X-Men Tornado Stickerless getting some exposure there. I am not sure why they are not more popular. Oh, by the way, I am biased. Tornado Stickerless is my main


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## JohnnyReggae (Jul 7, 2016)

mafergut said:


> So fast all of you!!! And improving greatly. Congrats to the 3 of you on your PBs: @earth2dan, @muchacho, @JohnnyReggae. And @JanW, great that you're getting used to the 15 second inspection. I can't stand that csTimer voice telling me 8 seconds...


Thanks  ... As for the inspection ... I started using it last month leading up to a competition we had towards the end of the month. I've since kept it going and as I'm only focusing on cross during inspection I usually try to get done before 8 seconds anyway.


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## Selkie (Jul 7, 2016)

JohnnyReggae said:


> Managed a 3x3 PB last night of 10.68  Quite lucky in the end with a last layer skip, my first, but I'm taking it anyway  Almost 2 seconds off my previous PB of 12.44 which I got in November last year, although that one only had a PLL skip.



Sorry missed this one, awesome single. Congratulations.


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## JohnnyReggae (Jul 7, 2016)

h2f said:


> Strange cases - yesterday I got two PLL skips in a row. Today I got it once again doing my best ao12 so far - 18.31.


I've had that once before ... 2 PLL skips in a row. What made it even more remarkable was that I had the same OLL to PLL skip in both solves from 2 completely different scrambles ... *mind blown*


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## mafergut (Jul 7, 2016)

JohnnyReggae said:


> I've had that once before ... 2 PLL skips in a row. What made it even more remarkable was that I had the same OLL to PLL skip in both solves from 2 completely different scrambles ... *mind blown*


Yeah, one of my top 3 Ao5 ever (16.02) also has 2 PLL skips in a row: (14.28), (28.02), 18.07, 15.64[PLL skip], 14.34[PLL skip]. Almost all my good averages seem to have a funny thing or other. My PB Ao5 (15.58) has to identical best times in it: 13.67, (19.57), 18.14, (13.67), 14.95. In this case both full step, which is weird, as I don't get that many 13.xx full step solves, much less so close to one another.


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## JohnnyReggae (Jul 7, 2016)

mafergut said:


> Yeah, one of my top 3 Ao5 ever (16.02) also has 2 PLL skips in a row: (14.28), (28.02), 18.07, 15.64[PLL skip], 14.34[PLL skip]. Almost all my good averages seem to have a funny thing or other. My PB Ao5 (15.58) has to identical best times in it: 13.67, (19.57), 18.14, (13.67), 14.95. In this case both full step, which is weird, as I don't get that many 13.xx full step solves, much less so close to one another.


Many of my low teen's have PLL skips in them. In an ao50 I will have around 4 or so, usually within quick succession as well. But I just had this full step 12.08 which if it wasn't for my 10.68 last night would have been a new PB. It is for me more impressive than the 10.68 which had a LL skip and overall TPS was higher with the 12.08. Still uber stoked with my 10.68 though 

https://alg.cubing.net/?setup=B2_L2..._R-_U-_//_pll_J&#45;Perm
//[email protected]


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## mafergut (Jul 7, 2016)

That is faster than my full step PB (12.89). And the 10.68 is also faster than my overall PB (11.80) which is a PLL skip. I have never had a LL skip in thousands and thousands of solves but I'm sure if I ever get one I will waste it with a bad F2L


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## Selkie (Jul 7, 2016)

mafergut said:


> That is faster than my full step PB (12.89). And the 10.68 is also faster than my overall PB (11.80) which is a PLL skip. I have never had a LL skip in thousands and thousands of solves but I'm sure if I ever get one I will waste it with a bad F2L



Had 3 pure LL skips in my time cubing. All three in the same year 5 years ago when I was not fast enough to make them count and one of which was on a 4x4 

Had a few when drilling Winter Variation but those are forced OLL skip anyway so a LL skip is the same chance as a pure PLL skip.


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## JanW (Jul 7, 2016)

mafergut said:


> That is faster than my full step PB (12.89). And the 10.68 is also faster than my overall PB (11.80) which is a PLL skip. I have never had a LL skip in thousands and thousands of solves but I'm sure if I ever get one I will waste it with a bad F2L


Learn ZZ and they will come. Or, at least every few thousand solves... 

I'm considering adding some Winter Variation cases to my arsenal as well. ZZ+WV = 1/72 chance of LL skip. I don't think all of WV is worth learning, at least not at this point, but there's a few easy cases (easy to recognize and easy to execute) that I think could be learned for every corner.


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## mafergut (Jul 7, 2016)

JanW said:


> Learn ZZ and they will come. Or, at least every few thousand solves...
> 
> I'm considering adding some Winter Variation cases to my arsenal as well. ZZ+WV = 1/72 chance of LL skip. I don't think all of WV is worth learning, at least not at this point, but there's a few easy cases (easy to recognize and easy to execute) that I think could be learned for every corner.


You know what? I spent a couple of weeks with Roux and another week or so with ZZ like 1 year ago and I liked both methods a lot. I would certainly consider learning them more seriously but I just don't have the time so, in the end, I prioritized other events like big cubes, etc. But that is on my to do list, for sure.

And regarding WV, which also @Selkie Chris mentions above, I really have a hard time deciding what set of algs I should go for next. There are so many last slot sub-sets VLS, WV, SV, HLS,... not sure that I didn't make on of those up  and there's also COLL... and summer vacation is too short so I better decide before I start vacation  Any suggestions? And, no, don't tell me to learn summer variation in August and winter variation in Christmas 

EDIT: 1st cube order arrived. In fact it's my 2nd order, from zcube, while the 1st one from Lightake with the yuxin 6x6 is still not with me. This includes the SS Aurora Mega, Qiyi skewb stickerless, LanLan 3x3x2 cuboid and LanLan Curvy Copter. Can't wait til weekend but this smells like unboxing video


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## Selkie (Jul 7, 2016)

Though I learned Winter Variation, that was in February and March this year and neevr incorporated them in my solves (big mistake) and lost most of them on my couple of month break from cubing so have to realistically start again.

That said I don't know whether just stick to what I know. I do want to reach my goal of globally sub 15 at home and in comp but at nearly 47, my hands are not getting any younger at all and beginning to feel the race is on and any big changes will take too long to be of huge benefit. I am better investing time now on cross+pair planning on inspection which will give me a greater immediate benefit.

That or invest in the long term for my 50+ solving years


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## JanW (Jul 7, 2016)

To me it seems WV isn't that valuable with CFOP. I remember reading about WV earlier and thinking it looked like an awful amount of work for something that rarely can be used. Now, when all my edges are oriented I look at it in a totally new way. Though I still wouldn't consider learning it as a full alg set. 

There's a few cases I'm interested in. One that I already use is the one you set up with L' U2 R U R' U2 L U2. This one is very easy to recognize if it comes up in a solve, no matter which slot to the last F2L pair is going into. To solve it I think "U2 - bring up the pair adjacent to the corner I'm about to insert to - U2 - insertion - U2 - put back the pair I brought up". This works for all corners when I have the edge already oriented. And it saves me from an L-case OLL, which is nice. There are some other easy WV cases I will also try to learn.

Btw. Funny that we would post with Selkie about WV at exactly the same time. Did not see his post before posting.


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## mafergut (Jul 7, 2016)

JanW said:


> To me it seems WV isn't that valuable with CFOP. I remember reading about WV earlier and thinking it looked like an awful amount of work for something that rarely can be used. Now, when all my edges are oriented I look at it in a totally new way. Though I still wouldn't consider learning it as a full alg set.
> 
> There's a few cases I'm interested in. One that I already use is the one you set up with L' U2 R U R' U2 L U2. This one is very easy to recognize if it comes up in a solve, no matter which slot to the last F2L pair is going into. To solve it I think "U2 - bring up the pair adjacent to the corner I'm about to insert to - U2 - insertion - U2 - put back the pair I brought up". This works for all corners when I have the edge already oriented. And it saves me from an L-case OLL, which is nice. There are some other easy WV cases I will also try to learn.
> 
> Btw. Funny that we would post with Selkie about WV at exactly the same time. Did not see his post before posting.


I tend to think that most of WV can just save you 3-4 moves at best. For example, the case that you put here takes 8 moves. Meanwhile just inserting it + OLL (bowtie) is 11 moves:
R U' R' + F' r U R' U' r' F R
Funny that this gets you exactly the same PLL case but just a U2 away of the WV alg.
It is really worth it to learn this kind of algs to save just 3 moves?


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## CLL Smooth (Jul 7, 2016)

mafergut said:


> You know what? I spent a couple of weeks with Roux and another week or so with ZZ like 1 year ago and I liked both methods a lot. I would certainly consider learning them more seriously but I just don't have the time so, in the end, I prioritized other events like big cubes, etc. But that is on my to do list, for sure.
> 
> And regarding WV, which also @Selkie Chris mentions above, I really have a hard time deciding what set of algs I should go for next. There are so many last slot sub-sets VLS, WV, SV, HLS,... not sure that I didn't make on of those up  and there's also COLL... and summer vacation is too short so I better decide before I start vacation  Any suggestions? And, no, don't tell me to learn summer variation in August and winter variation in Christmas
> 
> EDIT: 1st cube order arrived. In fact it's my 2nd order, from zcube, while the 1st one from Lightake with the yuxin 6x6 is still not with me. This includes the SS Aurora Mega, Qiyi skewb stickerless, LanLan 3x3x2 cuboid and LanLan Curvy Copter. Can't wait til weekend but this smells like unboxing video


I would learn COLL minus maybe S/AS. I'd also look at VHLS minus the split pair set.
I'm with Jan on WV. There are quite a few cases with nice recognition and a few with really nice algs. I only use a handful. ELL has some nice cases as well, particularly the ones that are also "line" cases.
Right now I'm going back to re-learning the T and U 2GLL sets, for the third time.


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## mafergut (Jul 7, 2016)

CLL Smooth said:


> I would learn COLL minus maybe S/AS. I'd also look at VHLS minus the split pair set.
> I'm with Jan on WV. There are quite a few cases with nice recognition and a few with really nice algs. I only use a handful. ELL has some nice cases as well, particularly the ones that are also "line" cases.
> Right now I'm going back to re-learning the T and U 2GLL sets, for the third time.


Will need to check those out, because tbh I have no idea what each of the LS sets is, nor ELL or 2GLL


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## One Wheel (Jul 7, 2016)

JanW said:


> Does cstimer save all times between sessions? Or should I export my sessions and save them somewhere else?



Yes, it saves them. I have ~850 4x4 solves dating back to late February or early March. I also have them in a spreadsheet because I started with a different timer and wanted to track my progress with Yau, but csTimer doesn't seem to have a problem with them. Altogether between all different puzzles and relays I have about 1600 times saved in csTimer.


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## mafergut (Jul 7, 2016)

One Wheel said:


> Yes, it saves them. I have ~850 4x4 solves dating back to late February or early March. I also have them in a spreadsheet because I started with a different timer and wanted to track my progress with Yau, but csTimer doesn't seem to have a problem with them. Altogether between all different puzzles and relays I have about 1600 times saved in csTimer.


I'd do a backup with the export function in case you clean your browser cookies, reinstall, etc. but yeah, I also have lots of solves in different sessions in csTimer.


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## muchacho (Jul 7, 2016)

I hadn't done more than 50 solves with the Weilong GTS until today, I was waiting to receive some red stickers with lighter shades, but after seeing it's GuRoux's new main I've just put some dark green stickers instead of red and 35 solves later... 18.636 ao5 PB, maybe it was just luck, but the cube looks promising 



Spoiler



22285 07-jul-2016 17:59:25 00:18.055 U' F2 L2 D L2 U2 B2 L2 D2 B2 U F' L' U B2 R2 L D' B' R2 L
22284 07-jul-2016 17:58:38 00:19.838 F2 L2 D' F2 D F2 U' F2 U2 R2 B2 R' D2 B' L' D' B R' F' D U2
22283 07-jul-2016 17:57:56 00:21.256 B2 F2 R2 U L2 D B2 D U2 L2 U2 B R D2 F2 D L B' L U2 L U'
22282 07-jul-2016 17:57:18 00:17.958 B2 R2 B2 U L2 D2 U2 F2 L2 D2 R2 B' D' F2 L' D2 R' B' U' L D2
22281 07-jul-2016 17:56:37 00:18.016 U' L2 D' B2 D' F2 L2 D B2 F2 L2 F' U R2 B' R F' R' U' F' R' U'


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## mafergut (Jul 7, 2016)

Nice average, David @muchacho
I was just trying to do some 5x5 warmup solves before WC scrambles but I was slower solve after solve


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## JanW (Jul 7, 2016)

mafergut said:


> I tend to think that most of WV can just save you 3-4 moves at best. For example, the case that you put here takes 8 moves. Meanwhile just inserting it + OLL (bowtie) is 11 moves:
> R U' R' + F' r U R' U' r' F R
> Funny that this gets you exactly the same PLL case but just a U2 away of the WV alg.
> It is really worth it to learn this kind of algs to save just 3 moves?


I guess it depends... It also saves you some split second of recognition, assuming you can learn to recognize WV fast enough.

One that saves a lot more moves is the one you set up with R U2 R' U'. Do the insertion normally and you would immediately cancel the insertion as you start your sune. Saves even more moves if performed in a direction you wouldn't normally perform a sune, like setup L U2 L' U'. This case should also be quite easy to recognize and perform for all 4 corners. Headlights either to the right or to the left, depending on which side you are inserting to. I'll try to include this in my solving routine next.


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## h2f (Jul 7, 2016)

I got 3rd ao100 sub20. I geuss I'm sub20 now...


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## JanW (Jul 7, 2016)

Congrats h2f! That is awesome!

What is up with these csTimer scrambles? 3 consecutive scrambles:

Generated By csTimer on 2016-7-8
mean of 3: 32.78

Time List:
1. 26.99 L2 D2 L2 U L2 R2 F2 U' R2 D' F2 R' D R' B' U B' D2 R
2. 41.96 F2 U R2 F2 L2 B2 U2 B2 U R2 D L' U' B2 D2 B2 U' L2 B L
3. 29.38 R U2 F2 D R2 U L2 D' L2 U' L2 U' R U' L' F R' B2 R U F2

(I do a x2 rotation between my scramble and solving direction)

1st scramble, only moves that affect edge orientation are the two B' moves towards the end. With one U move in between, I know there will be exactly 2 bad edges on the cube, so during inspection I can stop looking after finding the first 2.

2nd scramble, only one move affecting edge orientation, the second last move. If I wanted, I could fix all bad edges blind without even inspecting the cube.

3rd scramble, again only one move affecting edge orientation, I can stop looking after finding 4 bad edges.

I've seen a lot of scrambles like this in my first 90 solves with csTimer. I know I should avoid tracking things like this during scrambling, but since I noticed it immediately when I started using it, it's been very difficult to avoid noticing it. I don't recall seeing any scrambles with so few F/B moves using my other timer.

Edit: Might just be the scramble length. Those scrambles are 19-21 moves while the scrambles from my old timer were all 25 moves. Longer scrambles make it statistically a lot less likely to see scrambles like that. Is it possible to adjust scramble length in csTimer?


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## Jason Green (Jul 8, 2016)

One Wheel said:


> Yes, it saves them. I have ~850 4x4 solves dating back to late February or early March. I also have them in a spreadsheet because I started with a different timer and wanted to track my progress with Yau, but csTimer doesn't seem to have a problem with them. Altogether between all different puzzles and relays I have about 1600 times saved in csTimer.


It's in your cache somewhere, not ok the server. If you clear your cache they will go away.

And yes I believe you can set the scramble length but not sure.


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## Shaky Hands (Jul 8, 2016)

@JanW, maybe just don't look at the cube whilst scrambling it? I know I don't.

More cstimer fun (which I've only recently switched to as my browser is having problems with ctimer.co.uk which I've been using for quite a while now)...

I had a scramble earlier from cstimer where I was heading for a great time after managing to pull off a deliberate double X-cross and ended up screwing up an awkward OLL. Finished up on 52.93 seconds, which is one of my 5 highest times in the past 2500 solves. Did it again and got 18.98 seconds which would have been one of my lowest 5 times ever.

Scramble: F' B D2 L' U' L U L' D' R' U2 R' U2 B2 L2 D2 L F2

x2 // inspection
D R F2 R B' U' F' L' U L R' U2 R' // double X-cross
U' B U B' U' R' U' R // 3rd pair
B' U2 B // 4th pair
U2 R B' R' U' R U B U' R' // erm, messed this bit up, got it on 2nd attempt
U y F2 U M' U2 M U F2 // comedy U-perm, feel free to laugh

I reckon I was so happy with myself for pulling off the double X-cross that I had a brain leak!


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## phreaker (Jul 8, 2016)

Shaky Hands said:


> @JanW, maybe just don't look at the cube whilst scrambling it? I know I don't.
> 
> More cstimer fun (which I've only recently switched to as my browser is having problems with ctimer.co.uk which I've been using for quite a while now)...
> 
> ...


That U perm hurts my head...


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## phreaker (Jul 8, 2016)

Selkie said:


> Though I learned Winter Variation, that was in February and March this year and neevr incorporated them in my solves (big mistake) and lost most of them on my couple of month break from cubing so have to realistically start again.
> 
> That said I don't know whether just stick to what I know. I do want to reach my goal of globally sub 15 at home and in comp but at nearly 47, my hands are not getting any younger at all and beginning to feel the race is on and any big changes will take too long to be of huge benefit. I am better investing time now on cross+pair planning on inspection which will give me a greater immediate benefit.
> 
> That or invest in the long term for my 50+ solving years



Do you use ZZ/Petrus? If not how do you do the EO to make WV useful?

Also at 47... I'd hope you have plenty of finger speed left in you. Think about typing and piano players. They can go for quite a while .


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## Jason Green (Jul 8, 2016)

Jason Green said:


> It's in your cache somewhere, not ok the server. If you clear your cache they will go away.
> 
> And yes I believe you can set the scramble length but not sure.


Although I can't see how to set the length for the WCA puzzles.


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## JanW (Jul 8, 2016)

@Shaky Hands, I never look at the cube while scrambling. There's no need to look at it to register those things I mentioned. I'd need to not think about what I'm doing while scrambling, which is easier said than done. Especially now when I became aware of and got annoyed by this issue, it's very hard not to notice if I perform the first half of the scramble and there are no F/F' or B/B' moves. Once I notice that, it's even harder to not get a count of how many there are in the second half of the scramble.

@Jason Green, I can't find such a setting either.  I think it's a random state scrambler, which would make it harder to adjust exact scramble length.


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## h2f (Jul 8, 2016)

@JanW, thanks. To set scramble lenght: left bracket change from WCA to 3x3x3, right: old style. Next type the scramble length though it's set to 25. Strange thing with your scrambles. I count sometimes F and B moves and I never noticed the things you wrote. 

@Shaky Hands - this U perm hurts.


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## JanW (Jul 8, 2016)

Thanks @h2f! This works. I'll use these settings for my ZZ solves. 

Maybe it was just a statistical anomaly that I saw so many scrambles like this when I first started using the app. If the scramble was a series of 20 random moves, the probability of having only one F/F'/B/B' move is about 4.4%. It happened way more often than that in my first 100 solves, but sample size is far too small to make any conclusions. With 25 move scrambles, the probability goes down from 4.4% to 1.5%, which hopefully makes it rare enough that I stop thinking about this whole issue and won't notice it when it happens. I think this was the case with the other timer I used.


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## Selkie (Jul 8, 2016)

phreaker said:


> Do you use ZZ/Petrus? If not how do you do the EO to make WV useful?
> 
> Also at 47... I'd hope you have plenty of finger speed left in you. Think about typing and piano players. They can go for quite a while .



I use CFOP and with some edge control durinh F2L it is not difficult to end up with a case in one out of every 2-3 solves.


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## Jason Green (Jul 8, 2016)

h2f said:


> @JanW, thanks. To set scramble lenght: left bracket change from WCA to 3x3x3, right: old style. Next type the scramble length though it's set to 25. Strange thing with your scrambles. I count sometimes F and B moves and I never noticed the things you wrote.
> 
> @Shaky Hands - this U perm hurts.


I thought you could do that!  I was looking on my phone and couldn't see it.


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## h2f (Jul 8, 2016)

JanW said:


> Thanks @h2f! This works. I'll use these settings for my ZZ solves.
> 
> Maybe it was just a statistical anomaly that I saw so many scrambles like this when I first started using the app. If the scramble was a series of 20 random moves, the probability of having only one F/F'/B/B' move is about 4.4%. It happened way more often than that in my first 100 solves, but sample size is far too small to make any conclusions. With 25 move scrambles, the probability goes down from 4.4% to 1.5%, which hopefully makes it rare enough that I stop thinking about this whole issue and won't notice it when it happens. I think this was the case with the other timer I used.



For me there's one intresting thing - how solving method affects what you notice. When I was using ZZ for a while I did the same as you - counting F/B moves. When Roux - watching pairs, blocks etc. When CFOP - easy cross. Etc.etc.


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## Logiqx (Jul 8, 2016)

JanW said:


> Thanks @h2f! This works. I'll use these settings for my ZZ solves.
> 
> Maybe it was just a statistical anomaly that I saw so many scrambles like this when I first started using the app. If the scramble was a series of 20 random moves, the probability of having only one F/F'/B/B' move is about 4.4%. It happened way more often than that in my first 100 solves, but sample size is far too small to make any conclusions. With 25 move scrambles, the probability goes down from 4.4% to 1.5%, which hopefully makes it rare enough that I stop thinking about this whole issue and won't notice it when it happens. I think this was the case with the other timer I used.


It's worth mentioning that by default csTimer generates a random state scramble and gives a near optimal set of moves for it. What you observed regarding eo was most likely down to chance. The timers giving old style 25 move scrambles are just random moves.

A friend was once arguing with me that my scrambling the cube must make it easier. I refuted his claims as it makes no difference to me but with ZZ it may be true. I know I can't help but count the tips during a pyramid scramble so eo could be the same.

My suggestion to you is to toss the cube in the air and scramble from a random orientation. Toss it again before inspection. 

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk


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## h2f (Jul 8, 2016)

Shaky Hands said:


> @JanW, maybe just don't look at the cube whilst scrambling it? I know I don't.
> 
> More cstimer fun (which I've only recently switched to as my browser is having problems with ctimer.co.uk which I've been using for quite a while now)...
> 
> ...



There's a lot of possibilities in this scramble. My speedsolve:

2 y' // inspection
D' F L U R D2//cross + 2 pairs
y U L' U L //1st
F R' F' R//2nd
U2 L U L' U' L U L' //3rd
R' U2 R//4th
U R' F R U R' U' F' U R //oll (thunder)
R' U2 R' D' R U' R' D R U R U' R' U' R U //Ra perm

51 htm, with cancelation 48. 

But adding 3 extra moves to your xxcross makes xxxcross:

x2 // inspection
D R F2 R B' U' F' L' U *U R2 U'* L R' U2 R' // xxx-cross

Of course I couldnt do it during speesolve.


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## mafergut (Jul 8, 2016)

Random state scrambles are supposed to be better than old style. Maybe you can just scramble in random orientation but that would make it harder for you to reconstruct later if you want to.

EDIT: Sorry, I answered before reading Michael @Logiqx reply


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## Shaky Hands (Jul 8, 2016)

JanW said:


> @Shaky Hands, I never look at the cube while scrambling. There's no need to look at it to register those things I mentioned. I'd need to not think about what I'm doing while scrambling, which is easier said than done. Especially now when I became aware of and got annoyed by this issue, it's very hard not to notice if I perform the first half of the scramble and there are no F/F' or B/B' moves. Once I notice that, it's even harder to not get a count of how many there are in the second half of the scramble.



Ah I see. I misunderstood how you were determining stuff in the scramble.



h2f said:


> There's a lot of possibilities in this scramble. My speedsolve:
> 
> 2 y' // inspection
> D' F L U R D2//cross + 2 pairs
> ...



Nice! Thanks for sharing. [/QUOTE]


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## Logiqx (Jul 8, 2016)

mafergut said:


> And regarding WV, which also @Selkie Chris mentions above, I really have a hard time deciding what set of algs I should go for next. There are so many last slot sub-sets VLS, WV, SV, HLS,... not sure that I didn't make on of those up [emoji14] and there's also COLL...



I've enjoyed learning COLL (L, U, T, Pi, H). I'd recommend it to anyone who is comfortable with full OLL and looking for something new to learn which complements their existing skills. Left to chance you have a 1/8 chance of edges oriented after your last F2L pair (suitable for COLL or WV) but with partial edge control you can orient edges during your final pair and set up for COLL. I'm currently playing with the 5-move VHLS cases which often leads to a nice COLL + EPLL solution.

IMO COLL has the most benefit for OH and big cubes but it's still fun on 3x3 and the frequency of PLL skips after COLL is 6 times higher than normal (often executing a COLL alg which is no slower than the regular OCLL). I think for this reason it is also worth doing during 2H solves. It's especially good for 4x4 since the need to execute an OLL parity alg increases the chances of EO significantly. The way I handle 4x4 parity means that 9/16 solves have edges oriented prior when I begin the LL.

Even if you don't actively use COLL in a solve you'll find the corner recognition sometimes kicks in anyway. I don't always use COLL when I'm timing myself 2H (yet) but I sometimes recognise the COLL case as I start executing the OCLL and know that my corners will be fully solved. This reduces PLL recognition time and improves the flow of that solve.

Edit: I discussed COLL with Mark at the UK champs last year and our view was that COLL probably wasn't worth it for 3x3. I've changed my mind... it probably is worth it.


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## MarcelP (Jul 8, 2016)

mafergut said:


> Happens to me as well. When slow solving I don't usually get any better than 17-18 seconds. It's only by combining good lookahead and a speedier TPS when I can get down to 13-15. Of course that's only in lucky solves. Most of the time trying to rush too much only ends up in bad lookahead and worse times.





h2f said:


> I must say one more thing - a lot of people in a recent time asked me why I have a slow tps.





h2f said:


> I've noticed that in my good solves like 15.xx or 16.xx I'm fast and my lookahead is good. In slower I lock up, lose lookahead, bad recognize olls and plls etc.



I have been struggling with breaking my sub 19 barriere. I slow solve in my good averages. With real slow cross + F2L I have my best times in averages. How ever, if I step it up I can very nice solves like this one from today:







Spoiler



First solve of the day, cube GuaGuan yuxiau
Time List:
1. 13.71 L2 U' F2 D F2 U F2 R2 U' B' U' R2 F R B D2 U' R D U2

z2 x //Inspection
L' U x' U L' U L' x' U2 x // CROSS 10
R' U R U' R' U' R // 1ST 7
U' y' R' U R U2 R' U2 R U' R' U R //2ND 13
U' R U2 R' U2 R U' R' //3RD 8
y' U' R U R' U' R U R' //4TH 9
U2 r U2 R' U' R U' r' // OLL 8
U2 R U R' U' R' F R2 U' R' U' R U R' F' // PLL 15
// 70 MOVES IN 13.71 = *5.1 tps*

alg.cubing



As you can see by this reconstruction, it is far from efficient, but still a full step solve sub 14. I managed to keep looking ahead in all F2L cases, and between F2L - OLL and between OLL and PLL. Solves like this makes me think I could be sub 19 easily, if I only adjust to higher TPS. But is I practice with higher TPS, my averages go down the drain.. sup 20.. Go figure..


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## Lid (Jul 8, 2016)

Marcel 2nd pair I'd do: y' U2 R' U2 R U R' U' R (8)


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## Logiqx (Jul 8, 2016)

MarcelP said:


> I have been struggling with breaking my sub 19 barriere. I slow solve in my good averages. With real slow cross + F2L I have my best times in averages. How ever, if I step it up I can very nice solves like this one from today:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Nice solve. Regarding TPS... just remember that turning 5% faster equates to ~1s. When we turn fast we might be doing 25-50% faster which is easy for the fingers but too fast for the eyes and mind. The trick is to only turn 5-10% faster for a nice improvement. 

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk


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## h2f (Jul 8, 2016)

MarcelP said:


> As you can see by this reconstruction, it is far from efficient, but still a full step solve sub 14. I managed to keep looking ahead in all F2L cases, and between F2L - OLL and between OLL and PLL. Solves like this makes me think I could be sub 19 easily, if I only adjust to higher TPS. But is I practice with higher TPS, my averages go down the drain.. sup 20.. Go figure..





Logiqx said:


> Nice solve. Regarding TPS... just remember that turning 5% faster equates to ~1s. When we turn fast we might be doing 25-50% faster which is easy for the fingers but too fast for the eyes and mind. The trick is to only turn 5-10% faster for a nice improvement.



Nice solve Marcel. I think it's kind of forcing my mind to be faster. It's like - stop trying to hit me and hit me. I've noticed it in CS GO - I was aiming slow etc. - just aim and shoot.  Wrtining it I think there will come moment when I'm back to slow turning to get better at lookahead.


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## mafergut (Jul 8, 2016)

Nice solve @MarcelP, it's exactly the same feeling I have, I get a good solve or two, I try to have high TPS, times go up. It's like either that one solve was shouting at me pair after pair so I could not go wrong or I just went lucky but continuing on that high TPS makes it clear that, for the majority of solves, it is too fast for my lookahead, so average times are horrible, even sup-20. Maybe I should follow Michael's @Logiqx advice and just progressively increase TPS but it's difficult to find the correct pace to maximize speed without losing lookahead.

By the way, Shengshou is preparing a Master Kilominx, in the same desing style than their recent Kilominx which I'm still waiting to recieve. But the Yuxin 6x6 arrived this morning. It's still in the package waiting for my unboxing later this weekend.

Here is my unboxing video. Sorry because it's like 25 minutes long and still my dizzying 1st person angle. I have to think about getting a good GoPro camera that I can use with a tripod instead of this webcam. Quality of the video is not very good either but I hope you enjoy it.


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## muchacho (Jul 9, 2016)

Good video, nothing needs to be changed.

That yellow of the 6x6 may be good enough for me to tell it apart from green.

I bet (and hope) your son scrambled that cuboid


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## mafergut (Jul 9, 2016)

He did. And I had to look some cuboid algs to be able to solve it.
By the way, the Aurora Mega is even better than I thought. I'm not gonna buy a Galaxy any time soon.

Sent from my Nexus 4 with Tapatalk


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## earth2dan (Jul 9, 2016)

Nice video @mafergut. I skimmed a bit to the cubes I was interested in . I'm in the same boat as you with the 6x6 springs. I'll have to order a second spring set, because there's no way I'm taking them out of my awesome 5x5. Cubicle sells Yuxin 5x5 hardware sets for pretty cheap, I'm sure that'll be in my next order.

I have both the stickered and stickerless AuFu GT. I quite like the shades on the stickerless. They're not the best, but they're definitely good. Needs a darker blue would probably be my biggest complaint, if I was going to complain. The only downside for me is that I cannot seem to get my stickerless to move like my stickered one. The stickered one feels so nice, but I much prefer solving stickerless. I might have to take it apart, clean it, and lube it. But that's a big task...

I just got the dayan ridged mega recently and I'm not really good enough yet to warrant expanding that collection looking for a better one. Question, do you put your mega on the table when doing RU algs while solving? I find myself doing that when I solve. Not sure if that's good practice or if I should work on correcting that and keeping it in my hands.


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## mafergut (Jul 9, 2016)

earth2dan said:


> Nice video @mafergut. I skimmed a bit to the cubes I was interested in . I'm in the same boat as you with the 6x6 springs. I'll have to order a second spring set, because there's no way I'm taking them out of my awesome 5x5. Cubicle sells Yuxin 5x5 hardware sets for pretty cheap, I'm sure that'll be in my next order.
> 
> I have both the stickered and stickerless AuFu GT. I quite like the shades on the stickerless. They're not the best, but they're definitely good. Needs a darker blue would probably be my biggest complaint, if I was going to complain. The only downside for me is that I cannot seem to get my stickerless to move like my stickered one. The stickered one feels so nice, but I much prefer solving stickerless. I might have to take it apart, clean it, and lube it. But that's a big task...
> 
> I just got the dayan ridged mega recently and I'm not really good enough yet to warrant expanding that collection looking for a better one. Question, do you put your mega on the table when doing RU algs while solving? I find myself doing that when I solve. Not sure if that's good practice or if I should work on correcting that and keeping it in my hands.


I can't blame you for skimming. The video was way too long. Last time I checked on TheCubicle I did not find a Yuxin 5x5 hardware set on sale, maybe I just didn't find it or they just put it later due to overwhelming request from the community 

For Megaminx I usually put it on the table for the whole LL part. Up to then I just hold it in my hand. I have an old sub-4 solve in my youtube channel. I hope to get closer to sub-3 with the Aurora


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## earth2dan (Jul 9, 2016)

mafergut said:


> I can't blame you for skimming. The video was way too long. Last time I checked on TheCubicle I did not find a Yuxin 5x5 hardware set on sale, maybe I just didn't find it or they just put it later due to overwhelming request from the community
> 
> For Megaminx I usually put it on the table for the whole LL part. Up to then I just hold it in my hand. I have an old sub-4 solve in my youtube channel. I hope to get closer to sub-3 with the Aurora


Cubicle Yuxin 5x5 springs. I guess it's not a complete hardware set, it's just the springs. That's probably what everyone is after anyway.

That makes me feel a little better, I do pretty much the same with mega. Though, not nearly as fast. I'm still a long ways off 4 minutes


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## h2f (Jul 9, 2016)

I had a nice ao100 in the mornign. Started with 20.30 ao50 and finished with 19.20 ao50 after 80 solves and 19.80 ao100. Nice solves in the end: 13.13 FS and 15.69 but it didnt give nice ao5 due to bad other 3 times. I'm really happy.

Funny fact - I could have been at the comp when FZ beaten WR but thought it's a fake when I heard he will come. After few days I've registered but missed it by few hours.


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## h2f (Jul 10, 2016)

Sorry for double post. But it has passed 22 hours of silence. Next ao100 sub20 (19.82). First ao12 of session was 21.30 and I thought I have a bad day. But next solves were better. After 20 solves I've started to look ahead. I've finished with 20.30 ao50. Next 50 solves were nice. There was a moment when ao50 was 19.07 (new pb!). But specially I'm glad of few nice solves with xcrosses I try to make.

But thing is that I got few times pairs of 15.xx solves and 3 next were bad - over 20 or around. If one or two were 15-16 I could make ao5 sub 17.



Spoiler



stats

solves/total: 100/100

single
best: 12.60
worst: 27.02

mean of 3
current: 18.44 (σ = 1.68)
best: 17.36 (σ = 4.18)

avg of 5
current: 19.02 (σ = 0.77)
best: 17.45 (σ = 2.33)

avg of 12
current: 19.37 (σ = 1.38)
best: 18.48 (σ = 2.17)

avg of 50
current: 19.26 (σ = 1.81)
best: 19.07 (σ = 1.96)

avg of 100
current: 19.82 (σ = 2.00)
best: 19.82 (σ = 2.00)

Average: 19.82 (σ = 2.00)
Mean: 19.86

Time distribution:
12+: 1
14+: 5
16+: 19
18+: 26
20+: 33
22+: 10
24+: 4
26+: 2


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## mafergut (Jul 10, 2016)

Summer weekends are bad for this thread. We are all busy at the swimming pool or something 
I did my 1st solves with the Yuxin 6x6. It was the Ao5 for the weekly comp directly no untimed solves, no warmup, no thinking what kind of parities I could find and how to deal with them, just get the cube and solve it  Best time was 8:25.xx, not bad taking into account that I'm averaging now around 3:30 on 5x5 and double that would be 7 minutes.


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## mark49152 (Jul 10, 2016)

mafergut said:


> Best time was 8:25.xx, not bad taking into account that I'm averaging now around 3:30 on 5x5 and double that would be 7 minutes.


Yeah that is not bad, nice job. I think the 2x rule assumes a similar amount of practice. I am about 2:20 on 5x5 and 6:20 on 6x6 but I put that down to having done 10x as many 5x5 solves.


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## h2f (Jul 10, 2016)

@mafergut, yes, nice job. I was around 9-10 without practice.


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## Shaky Hands (Jul 11, 2016)

@mafergut... Good unboxing video, I watched it all, thanks for sharing. I agree that keyring mini-cube is great. I actually keep it with my keys so I have a cube on me almost all the time these days. Still tempted on the 6x6 Yuxin.

A few updates on my progress.

3x3 has been going well for me. I think I'm becoming more consistent with my solving.
- new PB Ao5: 22.00 (was 23.33)
- new PB Ao12: 23.90 (was 24.90)
- new PB Ao25: 25.35 (was 25.57)
- new PB Ao100: 26.09 (was 27.05)

Also, first sub-3m 5x5 solve (2:58.33)

Scramble (avoid if doing the 5x5 Race thread):



Spoiler



Rw2 B2 Bw F L' F' B2 Fw2 Rw Lw2 R L B' Dw' U' Uw' B' Rw Fw' D L Rw' Dw2 L F2 D2 F U' L2 D R2 Rw2 Dw' Uw2 Rw2 L2 Uw2 D' B2 Rw2 L' Dw U D' R' D Dw2 B' Dw' B' Fw' Uw Rw' U B' Rw2 B2 R' F' R2



And then a few scrambles later another slightly better (2:57.80)

Scramble (avoid if doing the 5x5 Race thread):


Spoiler



R2 B' F L2 R Dw2 F2 Uw' R' Uw Lw2 Bw2 Rw2 Uw Bw2 Lw D' L2 F' B Dw2 F Rw' U Bw' Uw Rw2 B Lw' B2 L' Bw2 B' L D' Lw' F D F Rw' Uw' Dw' F Fw' B2 R F' Bw' U2 L' U' Fw B' U' Uw' D' Bw' U Uw Lw



My previous 5x5 PB single was 3:15.xx, so I've managed to shave nearly 10% off that. Productive lunchtime for me. Feeling happy!


----------



## mafergut (Jul 11, 2016)

Andy @Shaky Hands, nice times on 3x3 and 5x5! I just saw your post on the 5x5 race a moment ago and it looks like you are going to graduate from sub 3:30 before than I'll do. Very nice Ao12 there!


----------



## h2f (Jul 11, 2016)

Nice progress @Shaky Hands. Sub25 ao100 on the horizon.


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## MarcelP (Jul 11, 2016)

mafergut said:


> Summer weekends are bad for this thread. We are all busy at the swimming pool or something
> I did my 1st solves with the Yuxin 6x6. It was the Ao5 for the weekly comp directly no untimed solves, no warmup, no thinking what kind of parities I could find and how to deal with them, just get the cube and solve it  Best time was 8:25.xx, not bad taking into account that I'm averaging now around 3:30 on 5x5 and double that would be 7 minutes.


My first two solves took one hour each  But I liked it.


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## mafergut (Jul 11, 2016)

MarcelP said:


> My first two solves took one hour each  But I liked it.


Well, to be honest, I had already solved my 7x7 like 5-6 times some time ago when I bought it but still 6x6 had some surprises and I had to think how to execute the parity algs I already knew to deal with them. And I had watched some videos on how to deal with L2C on big cubes as well.


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## h2f (Jul 11, 2016)

mafergut said:


> Well, to be honest, I had already solved my 7x7 like 5-6 times some time ago when I bought it but still 6x6 had some surprises and I had to think how to execute the parity algs I already knew to deal with them. And I had watched some videos on how to deal with L2C on big cubes as well.



I still havent got any 7x7 cube. That is the last one from the offcial puzzles I havent got yet.

Every day brings new pbs. Today new ao12 18.02 from 18.31 set few days ago. And new ao100 19.43 from 19.66 set in april...


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## mafergut (Jul 11, 2016)

I'm getting a lot into big puzzles lately. If I manage to get below 10 min at 7x7 I might get an 8x8 eventually, just for fun.

Sent from my Nexus 4 with Tapatalk


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## h2f (Jul 11, 2016)

mafergut said:


> I'm getting a lot into big puzzles lately. If I manage to get below 10 min at 7x7 I might get an 8x8 eventually, just for fun.
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 4 with Tapatalk



Awsome. I think you can get it very soon. I promised myselft to take some attempts in 6bld this summer, if we talk about solving big cubes.


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## mafergut (Jul 11, 2016)

h2f said:


> Awsome. I think you can get it very soon. I promised myselft to take some attempts in 6bld this summer, if we talk about solving big cubes.


I'm just starting to fathom solving a 6x6 or bigger cube sighted. I cannot even imagine solving a 6x6 blind. Well, not even a 5x5


----------



## Lid (Jul 11, 2016)

My 6x6 has finally shipped (got a spring set also). So soon I'll join the rest of you.


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## Logiqx (Jul 11, 2016)

Nice scramble I just got on KingEn:

R' B R2 D U2 B2 F' U D' F R' U2 L' U R B' U' F' R2 D B D' B2 U' L2


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## mafergut (Jul 11, 2016)

Nice white cross already done for you and plenty of easy pairs in sight to choose from. Hope you got a good time on that


----------



## Shaky Hands (Jul 11, 2016)

Looks a good scramble @Logiqx. Led me to the F double-sexy F' OLL and a G-perm. Didn't time it, but would have been good.


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## Logiqx (Jul 12, 2016)

mafergut said:


> Nice white cross already done for you and plenty of easy pairs in sight to choose from. Hope you got a good time on that





Shaky Hands said:


> Looks a good scramble @Logiqx. Led me to the F double-sexy F' OLL and a G-perm. Didn't time it, but would have been good.



I think this was my third every cross-skip but I was having a bit of an off-day yesterday, averaging about 18.2 during the evening. I got 13.2 on this solve but I handled it quite badly!


----------



## h2f (Jul 12, 2016)

Logiqx said:


> Nice scramble I just got on KingEn:
> 
> R' B R2 D U2 B2 F' U D' F R' U2 L' U R B' U' F' R2 D B D' B2 U' L2



Nice scramble. 16.53 without warmup. 

Here's my yesterday's best solve:


----------



## mafergut (Jul 12, 2016)

Nice solve, Grzegorz @h2f. I have to try and record some solves as well. I don't usually do and I would like to get a good single on camera 
By the way, I decided, just for fun, to time some solves with my new LanLan Domino / 2x3x3 cuboid. Times are so variable due to last layer not being alg optimized and, well, the puzzle is not really good for speedsolving (corner cutting is almost non-existent).

Generated By csTimer on 2016-7-12
avg of 12: 37.24

Time List:
48.62, 38.38+, 41.68+, 35.42, (22.85), 26.13, 38.63, 45.73, 45.13, 24.88, 27.75, (48.72)


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## megagoune (Jul 12, 2016)

mafergut said:


> I'm getting a lot into big puzzles lately. If I manage to get below 10 min at 7x7 I might get an 8x8 eventually, just for fun.
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 4 with Tapatalk


Nice. I am still sup-20 minutes for 7x7, but it did not stop me from buying this monster


----------



## mafergut (Jul 12, 2016)

megagoune said:


> Nice. I am still sup-20 minutes for 7x7, but it did not stop me from buying this monster



Well, I just did like 3 timed solves one month ago or so when I bought the Aofu GT and the best one was a bit less than 21 minutes but since then I have practiced 5x5 and improved significantly and now my first 6x6 solves are around 9 minutes so I would expect 7x7 be around 1.5 times that now but I have not tried (will do next weekend if I can). Anyway, taking my 4x4 and 5x5 times as reference I hope I can get 6x6 down close to 6 minutes and 7x7 under 10 minutes but maybe I can't. I still feel very clumsy turning my 7x7.

That 11x11 looks great, by the way. It must take more than 1h to solve, I assume.


----------



## JanW (Jul 12, 2016)

Logiqx said:


> Nice scramble I just got on KingEn:
> 
> R' B R2 D U2 B2 F' U D' F R' U2 L' U R B' U' F' R2 D B D' B2 U' L2


Nice scramble!

Got this from csTimer:
L' D' R2 U2 B2 R' L2 U L' R2 U' D F2 L2 B2 U2 R' F2 B2 R' U R2 D' L' U'

Pretty decent for both CFOP and ZZ. I did a pretty fast solve and looked up to see DNF on the screen. Apparently I didn't hold down space bar long enough to start the timer. Tried it a second time, ended up solving it slightly differently at 16.91 seconds. Unfortunately I cannot count it as my PB as it was the second attempt.


----------



## megagoune (Jul 12, 2016)

mafergut said:


> Well, I just did like 3 timed solves one month ago or so when I bought the Aofu GT and the best one was a bit less than 21 minutes but since then I have practiced 5x5 and improved significantly and now my first 6x6 solves are around 9 minutes so I would expect 7x7 be around 1.5 times that now but I have not tried (will do next weekend if I can). Anyway, taking my 4x4 and 5x5 times as reference I hope I can get 6x6 down close to 6 minutes and 7x7 under 10 minutes but maybe I can't. I still feel very clumsy turning my 7x7.
> 
> That 11x11 looks great, by the way. It must take more than 1h to solve, I assume.



I did not solve the 11x11 yet. I received it yesterday, and I had a 2x2 ghost cube and a 3x3x2 in the same package. I played with the smaller puzzles first! I just scrambled it for now.
I will probably not have the patience to solve this beast in one sitting. It might take me days of solving little by little. Hopping for sub-20 days


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## mafergut (Jul 12, 2016)

megagoune said:


> I did not solve the 11x11 yet. I received it yesterday, and I had a 2x2 ghost cube and a 3x3x2 in the same package. I played with the smaller puzzles first! I just scrambled it for now.
> I will probably not have the patience to solve this beast in one sitting. It might take me days of solving little by little. Hopping for sub-20 days


Well, it certainly will need of some patience to solve. I recently bought a SS Gigaminx and it took me more than 1h in two sittings to solve it for the first (and only) time. I love the puzzle but you need to have some free time, unless you can solve it in 10 minutes like some people in the forum 

I think if I decide to go beyond "WCA size" (7x7), I will start with "just" an 8x8 as the 11x11 seems a bit of an overkill for me right now, time (to solve) and price-wise. Not sure if there are any other options than the SS (I don't like pillowed cubes, so the v-cube 8x8 is not an option).

Regarding your other items in the order I just got a 3x3x2 in my last order, you have the unboxing video on my youtube channel and a post a page ago about an Ao12 of solves I timed with it. I like it a lot (mine is a LanLan). It turns smoothly but does not corner cut so speedsolving it is a bit of a pain. I have no ghosts but those are certainly on my shopping list. Not sure whether to start with a 2x2 or 3x3, though and I don't know which one to buy either. Mefferts' 3x3 is a bit expensive (and not great, or so I have heard) and others like Fangcun don't seem good either so I'm not sure. And a hand made one is out of question, either buying it or doing it myself


----------



## Logiqx (Jul 12, 2016)

JanW said:


> Nice scramble!
> 
> Got this from csTimer:
> L' D' R2 U2 B2 R' L2 U L' R2 U' D F2 L2 B2 U2 R' F2 B2 R' U R2 D' L' U'
> ...



Nice - 12.62 ending with an Nb-perm which to be honest is not my favourite PLL!


----------



## MarcelP (Jul 12, 2016)

Logiqx said:


> Nice scramble I just got on KingEn:
> 
> R' B R2 D U2 B2 F' U D' F R' U2 L' U R B' U' F' R2 D B D' B2 U' L2


15.35


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## mafergut (Jul 12, 2016)

I got a 14.97 but it was a +2 (wrong AUF), then tried again but ended up doing a different F2L, got a Z-perm and stopped the timer at 16.xx so I gave up


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## Shaky Hands (Jul 12, 2016)

JanW said:


> Got this from csTimer:
> L' D' R2 U2 B2 R' L2 U L' R2 U' D F2 L2 B2 U2 R' F2 B2 R' U R2 D' L' U'



18.98 with no warmup, this would have been one of my lowest 10 times. Nice scramble indeed.


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## Jason Green (Jul 12, 2016)

Shaky Hands said:


> 18.98 with no warmup, this would have been one of my lowest 10 times. Nice scramble indeed.


Would have if what? You warmed up?


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## Shaky Hands (Jul 12, 2016)

Jason Green said:


> Would have if what? You warmed up?



I mean I just keep track of times I get from scrambles I don't know in advance are going to be friendly to me. Otherwise I'd just go through the Easy / Lucky / Funny / Hard / Weird scrambles thread and collect a bunch of PB's.


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## Jason Green (Jul 12, 2016)

Shaky Hands said:


> I mean I just keep track of times I get from scrambles I don't know in advance are going to be friendly to me. Otherwise I'd just go through the Easy / Lucky / Funny / Hard / Weird scrambles thread and collect a bunch of PB's.


Haha yeah I guess it makes sense if you think of it like that. I don't usually do that well on ones I know are easy anyway. I got a 19 on that one with the cross made. Of course I had just woke up from a nap.


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## Logiqx (Jul 13, 2016)

Jason Green said:


> Haha yeah I guess it makes sense if you think of it like that. I don't usually do that well on ones I know are easy anyway. I got a 19 on that one with the cross made. Of course I had just woke up from a nap.


Definition of an older cuber:
Feels the need to take naps on a regular basis. 

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk


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## MarcelP (Jul 13, 2016)

JanW said:


> Nice scramble!
> 
> Got this from csTimer:
> L' D' R2 U2 B2 R' L2 U L' R2 U' D F2 L2 B2 U2 R' F2 B2 R' U R2 D' L' U'


I inspected white and yellow cross since both where easy, but went for white and got 13.92. Excellent time for me


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## Logiqx (Jul 13, 2016)

MarcelP said:


> I inspected white and yellow cross since both where easy, but went for white and got 13.92. Excellent time for me


I did the same and I saw other promising crosses. I reverted to white to avoid too much deliberation!

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk


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## JohnnyReggae (Jul 13, 2016)

Very first solve of the day .....  

13.72 R2 D' R2 D R2 F2 D' R2 D U' L' R B R' D2 R U R2 U2 L2


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## JanW (Jul 13, 2016)

MarcelP said:


> I inspected white and yellow cross since both where easy, but went for white and got 13.92. Excellent time for me


Hah, didn't even notice the yellow cross is also almost done. So 1 move white cross, 2 move yellow cross and all edges oriented. Could even do both white and yellow cross in 3 moves, not that I know of any solving method that would benefit from this.


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## One Wheel (Jul 13, 2016)

JanW said:


> Hah, didn't even notice the yellow cross is also almost done. So 1 move white cross, 2 move yellow cross and all edges oriented. Could even do both white and yellow cross in 3 moves, not that I know of any solving method that would benefit from this.


Easy BLD case?


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## JanW (Jul 13, 2016)

One Wheel said:


> Easy BLD case?


Unfortunately memo would be quite impossible to do if you start by doing 3 moves to mess up the corners. Otherwise all edges could be solved in 7 moves with that scramble.

Perhaps something for FMC?


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## One Wheel (Jul 13, 2016)

JanW said:


> Unfortunately memo would be quite impossible to do if you start by doing 3 moves to mess up the corners. Otherwise all edges could be solved in 7 moves with that scramble.



I still need to learn BLD, but my thought was that if you could solve 8 edges in 3 moves, that's about as many moves as are easy to track, so memo those moves and where everything will end up . . .

I'm not much good at FMC either, but at least I can do it. It seems generally to be better to work more or less from one side to the other, rather than both sides, but I guess if you've got EO that helps.


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## newtonbase (Jul 13, 2016)

One Wheel said:


> I still need to learn BLD, but my thought was that if you could solve 8 edges in 3 moves, that's about as many moves as are easy to track, so memo those moves and where everything will end up . . .


The problem is that in blind you already memo where everything goes so you would either have to do a longer memo or adjust each part of the memo which would lose any advantage you had from the scramble. 

My phone has broken so I've lost all my times. It's an opportunity to choose a new Android app. What does everyone use?


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## Jason Green (Jul 13, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> The problem is that in blind you already memo where everything goes so you would either have to do a longer memo or adjust each part of the memo which would lose any advantage you had from the scramble.
> 
> My phone has broken so I've lost all my times. It's an opportunity to choose a new Android app. What does everyone use?


plusTimer! I really like it. Been using it even when it used to crash, but that is fixed now.


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## earth2dan (Jul 13, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> The problem is that in blind you already memo where everything goes so you would either have to do a longer memo or adjust each part of the memo which would lose any advantage you had from the scramble.
> 
> My phone has broken so I've lost all my times. It's an opportunity to choose a new Android app. What does everyone use?



There's a bunch of great timer apps out there, but I've been using Nano Timer for a long time now and I really like it. I even paid the $1 for the "Pro" version. I think that just enables exporting/importing of times. It's simple but full featured. You can set up steps and create custom solve types for each puzzle which I find useful when trying to identify which steps I need to improve on with different methods on different size puzzles. It's useful just for keeping separate averages if you use different methods too.

I still prefer the look of SpeedCube Timer, but Nano Timer is the one I always use because of the extra features.


On another note, I just ordered a second Yuxin 6x6 and a couple sets of 5x5 springs to do spring swaps. I'm already pretty happy with this puzzle, but everyone says the spring swap makes a huge difference, so I'm gonna try it


----------



## newtonbase (Jul 14, 2016)

earth2dan said:


> There's a bunch of great timer apps out there, but I've been using Nano Timer for a long time now and I really like it. I even paid the $1 for the "Pro" version. I think that just enables exporting/importing of times. It's simple but full featured. You can set up steps and create custom solve types for each puzzle which I find useful when trying to identify which steps I need to improve on with different methods on different size puzzles. It's useful just for keeping separate averages if you use different methods too.
> 
> I still prefer the look of SpeedCube Timer, but Nano Timer is the one I always use because of the extra features.


It's Nano Timer that I was using. 
I love qqtimer but I can't start and stop it on my phone.


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## muchacho (Jul 14, 2016)

New 3x3 Ao5 PB: 18.610

Not big improvement (it was 18.636 from a week ago) but it has 2 counting 17s, previous to that it was 18.638, and 18.681 before that one, hopefully next will be 18.5xx at last 



Spoiler



22888 14-jul-2016 8:32:21 00:22.758 D F2 D' L2 U' F2 L2 U' F2 U B L U R D' R D F2 D' B2 U
22887 14-jul-2016 8:31:39 00:17.975 D L2 B2 F2 U2 F2 D' B2 F2 R2 L2 B U L' F U2 L D R' D2 F2
22886 14-jul-2016 8:30:54 00:16.657 F2 R2 D R2 D2 B2 F2 L2 B2 D2 F2 L' U R' U' F' R2 D F2 L D'
22885 14-jul-2016 8:30:12 00:20.558 D F2 R2 L2 D2 U' B2 U' B2 L2 B' R F' D' L' D' L U2 R' F2 D2
22884 14-jul-2016 8:29:29 00:17.299 D B2 U' F2 D R2 U' R2 F2 D2 R L2 B F' L F2 D' F' D F2 U


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## JohnnyReggae (Jul 14, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> My phone has broken so I've lost all my times. It's an opportunity to choose a new Android app. What does everyone use?


I've been using plusTimer ... so far out of the countless apps I've looked at I've eventually settled on that one. I like it as I can export the times which I can them import into other apps or spreadsheets.


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## mafergut (Jul 14, 2016)

I have been recommended plusTimer but have not installed any... yet.

By the way, 3x3 main selection crisis might be over. I have settled for a couple days on the Moyu Hualong and I'm liking it. After doing the weekly comp 3x3 scrambles and getting a nice average I continued solving with it and tied my PB Ao12 (obtained with the Yuexiao like 2 months ago).

Generated By csTimer on 2016-7-14
avg of 12: 17.55

Time List:
16.30, (21.54), 16.04, 17.48, 18.78, 18.29, 18.23, 17.66, (15.62), 18.54, 16.57, 17.57

Tried to roll the 21.xx but got nervous and failed. I would have liked a lot to get a sub 17.50 average with all sub-20 solves but nope.


----------



## JohnnyReggae (Jul 14, 2016)

mafergut said:


> I have been recommended plusTimer but have not installed any... yet.
> 
> By the way, 3x3 main selection crisis might be over. I have settled for a couple days on the Moyu Hualong and I'm liking it. After doing the weekly comp 3x3 scrambles and getting a nice average I continued solving with it and tied my PB Ao12 (obtained with the Yuexiao like 2 months ago).
> 
> ...


Lately when I have been solving in the evening I have been picking up my Hualong and doing a bunch of solves with it. It feels so much different than I initially remember after using all these newer cubes. My times are similar to my times with my other cubes. In the evenings it's the Gans V2, Yuexiao, and Hualong. I use the Gans during the day at work as it's quiet, and in the evenings I change every 10 solves or so to something else.

Recently pulled out my Tanglong and Aolong GT, and honestly as much as I really try to I don't like them at all these days. Not sure what to do with them, they are expensive cubes to use for mods.

Btw... congratulations on the ao12 ... it's 3 one-hundredth's of a second faster than mine ... *17.58*  which I managed yesterday actually ....

17.38, 17.03, 18.84, (19.96), 16.76, 19.04, 16.51, 19.34, (14.11), 16.51, 18.32, 16.06


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## mafergut (Jul 14, 2016)

Thanks, Brent @JohnnyReggae but I'd have liked to beat my PB even if only by 0.01 
Also, before my other 17.55 in May, my PB was a 17.63 from Oct 2015 so, as you can see I'm quite stuck in a plateau that lasts close to a year right now. It looks like you're improving at a good pace, so you will pass me in a week or two


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## JanW (Jul 14, 2016)

Finally learned the last G perms and can now say I know full PLL.  I feel pretty comfortable with recognition, can tell which case it is pretty fast, but then I need some time to recall the alg in some cases. I think a lot of solves is the only thing that will help with this.

The last 2 algs I learned, Gc and Gd, quickly became my favorite PLL algs to execute. Especially D' R U R' U' D R2 U' R U' R' U R' U R2 flows really nicely when I figured out how to fingertrick it. Overall the G perms were not that bad. I think it could have been a good idea to learn them earlier.


----------



## Lid (Jul 14, 2016)

Finally YuXin 6x6 here, only need a stickerless 2x2 now to be "complete". Did 6 solves and #5 was a new PB single, *4:05.11*, 4x 4:3x & one worse, doing the springswap soon I guess.


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## JanW (Jul 14, 2016)

First attempt at multiblind: 0/3 



Spoiler












First cube off by one corner cycle (memo mistake) and 4 flipped edges. No idea how it's possible to get 4 flipped edges... 2nd cube off by one corner cycle and one edge cycle, 3rd cube off by one corner cycle and 2 flipped edges. Took me about 38 minutes. 25 minutes for memo and 13 execution. Took it very slowly as it was the first time I tried mbld.

Overall I'm quite pleased with the attempt. Could have been much worse. I haven't done much bld lately and had no idea if I would be able to memo 3 cubes when I set out to do this. Never even tried 2 cubes. I was quite surprised how well I was able to remember all three. Solved them in reverse order of memo.

The scrambles I used were the first 3 mbld scrambles from the weekly competition.


----------



## newtonbase (Jul 15, 2016)

JanW said:


> First attempt at multiblind: 0/3
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Well done @JanW. I still have only one MBLD success (my 2nd attempt) but I find that the practice has improved my 3BLD. 

I suspect that on the 4 flipped edges you have done the wrong sticker on the 1st one.


----------



## h2f (Jul 15, 2016)

JanW said:


> First attempt at multiblind: 0/3
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Next try will be 3/3.


----------



## muchacho (Jul 15, 2016)

I've received and solved the 2x2 Kilominx, it took me like twice the time I used to solve a Megaminx in, but it's almost 4 months since I stopped practicing that. It locked a lot and I would need to change some colors, but it's fun.


----------



## MarcelP (Jul 15, 2016)

Ok, look at this wicket cross:

*B2 F2 R2 D2 B U2 F D2 F U' L' D' L2 D2 U' F2 L' F U*



Spoiler: My solution



B2 F2 R2 D2 B U2 F D2 F U' L' D' L2 D2 U' F2 L' F U

y2// inspection, I placed orange cross on right to fix with sexy move
R U R' U' R U R' // Cross with double sexy move (7)
z R U' R' U' R U' R' y U R U' R' // 1ST (13 OUCH)
U' R' U' R L' U L // 2ND (7)
y R U' R' y R U' R' // 3RD (8)
y' R U' R' U2 R U' R' // 4TH (8)
U R U R' U' R' F R F' // OLL (9)
U R U R' y' R2 u' R U' R' U R' u R2 U // PLL (15)
// 12.85 IN 67 moves is 5.2 TPS

Who needs efficiency when you can look ahead at 5.2 TPS. LOL 
alg.cubing.net


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## MarcelP (Jul 15, 2016)

Lid said:


> Finally YuXin 6x6 here, only need a stickerless 2x2 now to be "complete". Did 6 solves and #5 was a new PB single, *4:05.11*,...


You beat my 5x5 PB with that 6X6.. Not cool dude... LOL


----------



## Shaky Hands (Jul 15, 2016)

Did anyone from this thread go to the European Cube Championships in the end? Any older names I should be looking out for?

As an aside, I see Feliks has already set 2 new world records in 7x7.


----------



## MarcelP (Jul 15, 2016)

Shaky Hands said:


> Did anyone from this thread go to the European Cube Championships in the end? Any older names I should be looking out for?


I saw Raoul from Spain on the competitor list.


----------



## moralsh (Jul 15, 2016)

I registered but couldn't make it due to work constraints  I'll try next year with worlds


----------



## JanW (Jul 15, 2016)

h2f said:


> Next try will be 3/3.


Not quite... 1/3.  

DNFs both off by one edge cycle and one corner cycle. Again I was able to remember my memo quite well and had no large mistakes in execution. I'm confident I will succeed with a little more practice.


----------



## mafergut (Jul 15, 2016)

After a so so 4x4 Ao5 in the weekly comp I got a very nice Ao12 for the race to sub 1:30 graduation round. New PB Ao12 and Ao5:

Generated By csTimer on 2016-7-15
avg of 5: 1:18.25
avg of 12: 1:21.62

Time List:
1:22.95, 1:29.24, 1:23.87, 1:24.79, 1:18.50, 1:22.35, 1:15.97, (1:12.73), 1:23.42, 1:16.43, (1:32.62), 1:18.61


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## muchacho (Jul 15, 2016)

Very nice times!

I've timed a Kilominx solve to see how bad it was, it was not good (5:17.083) but maybe enough to be this thread's record holder for now 

@mafergut Have you received yours? (mine took 15 days from zcube) fancy a race?


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## mafergut (Jul 15, 2016)

muchacho said:


> Very nice times!
> 
> I've timed a Kilominx solve to see how bad it was, it was not good (5:17.083) but maybe enought to be this thread's record holder for now
> 
> @mafergut Have you received yours? fancy a race?


Thanks! I have to admit that I got very few parities in the whole average so it was a bit lucky but I'll take it.
My SS Kilominx is close to arriving. Maybe Monday or Tuesday I'll have it.
It's strange that we were around 3:30 at Megaminx some weeks ago when we were racing. Is it more difficult to solve the Kilominx than the Megaminx? It does not seem logical to me. Can you find parities or some other oddities while solving it?

Of course I will race as soon as I get it. I was wanting to go back to Mega as well, as I have just solved once my new Aurora since I got it.


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## muchacho (Jul 15, 2016)

No, it's very easy, I've seen a 23 seconds solve in youtube, but I have problems with colors and locks, and by not having solved a Megaminx in 4 months.


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## mafergut (Jul 15, 2016)

muchacho said:


> No, it's very easy, I've seen a 23 seconds solve in youtube, but I have problems with colors and locks, and by not having solved a Megaminx in 4 months.


Has it been really so long since we raced to sub-5, then sub-4 and then sub-3:30? Oh, man! Time goes by so fast... 
I really need to do some timed solves with the Aurora to see where I'm at right now. I hope I have not gone back to sup-5 
Well, so you have some time in advance to practice with the kilominx. Just tell me what target you want to race to and I'll do my best


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## muchacho (Jul 15, 2016)

I'm guessing half of Megaminx times would be fine but I don't know, maybe first a race to sub-2 and then maybe even 1:30.

3:23.067 now

edit:
...And first Megaminx solve in months: 6:55.270


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## mafergut (Jul 15, 2016)

muchacho said:


> I'm guessing half of Megaminx times would be fine but I don't know, maybe first a race to sub-2 and then maybe even 1:30.
> 
> 3:23.067 now
> 
> ...


I just did a solve as well with my Aurora. Either I have not lost practice in all these months or the Aurora is so much better than the normal SS Mega, probably a bit of the two. I got a 3:26.80 
Let's make it race to sub-2, thanks fine by me.


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## earth2dan (Jul 15, 2016)

mafergut said:


> After a so so 4x4 Ao5 in the weekly comp I got a very nice Ao12 for the race to sub 1:30 graduation round. New PB Ao12 and Ao5



Nice! Speaking of 4x4, I've gone and eaten my own words. After setting it up and breaking it in, I have 100% switched to the new Yuxin 4x4 as my main now. It is better than all my other 4x4's, including the G4. It definitely needs to be lubed and tensioned, but once you get it set up right it's so very good. It's smooth, no middle layer catches at all, and it's so quiet compared to my other 4x4's. I was 0.18s off a PB single with it last night just casually solving while testing out a camera set up (I hope to start recording more solves). I'm probably going to buy a 2nd one.

In other news, I finally got around to swapping springs on my old SS mini 7x7. It took a few hours, and it took some tinkering to get the tensions right, but it definitely makes a huge difference. It's still not as good as the new AoFu GT, but I'm glad I did it. It makes a fine 2nd string 7x7 now. I recorded the whole thing with my new camera set up, maybe I'll time lapse it and post a video


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## mafergut (Jul 15, 2016)

@earth2dan, now I'll have to buy one


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## earth2dan (Jul 15, 2016)

mafergut said:


> @earth2dan, now I'll have to buy one


Hehe, sorry . Though, I would say only buy one if you're willing to put in some time setting it up. Out of the box it won't be any better than your G4, and it won't get there with just break in. This puzzle really needs to be lubed and tensioned (I had to tighten it quite a bit). If you buy one definitely get the stickerless, the colours are very nice.


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## mafergut (Jul 15, 2016)

earth2dan said:


> Hehe, sorry . Though, I would say only buy one if you're willing to put in some time setting it up. Out of the box it won't be any better than your G4, and it won't get there with just break in. This puzzle really needs to be lubed and tensioned (I had to tighten it quite a bit). If you buy one definitely get the stickerless, the colours are very nice.


To be honest I have not touched my G4, not lubed or tensioned it or anything and it is starting to feel a bit dry but it still turns so nicely that I fear setting it up and making it worse. Are the shades the same as for the 6x6? They are a bit better than on the 5x5 but I still have some problems with red-orange that I don't have with the G4.


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## earth2dan (Jul 15, 2016)

mafergut said:


> To be honest I have not touched my G4, not lubed or tensioned it or anything and it is starting to feel a bit dry but it still turns so nicely that I fear setting it up and making it worse. Are the shades the same as for the 6x6? They are a bit better than on the 5x5 but I still have some problems with red-orange that I don't have with the G4.


Shades are exactly the same as the 6x6. In low light I have trouble with red/orange on the 6x6 as well, but it's not such a problem with the 4x4 for me. Maybe it's the bigger pieces?


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## mafergut (Jul 15, 2016)

earth2dan said:


> Shades are exactly the same as the 6x6. In low light I have trouble with red/orange on the 6x6 as well, but it's not such a problem with the 4x4 for me. Maybe it's the bigger pieces?


Makes sense that the bigger pieces account for better recognition but I still prefer the G4 shades. Anyway, maybe I will put a Yuxin 4x4 on my next order.


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## Shaky Hands (Jul 15, 2016)

Shaky Hands said:


> As an aside, I see Feliks has already set 2 new world records in 7x7.



Wow, and just now he's got another World Record in 5x5 (first sub-50s average with 53.08 48.25 52.00 45.52 47.71.) He's on an incredible run at the moment. 3 World Records in a single day.


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## CLL Smooth (Jul 15, 2016)

muchacho said:


> I've received and solved the 2x2 Kilominx, it took me like twice the time I used to solve a Megaminx in, but it's almost 4 months since I stopped practicing that. It locked a lot and I would need to change some colors, but it's fun.


I played with it a few days last week and was avg sub-1 pretty quickly. I figure sub-50 won't take too much practice. I use the same S2L order as I do on mega and there are only 3 PLLs, although 2 are hard to distinguish.


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## Chree (Jul 15, 2016)

Kilominx is fun! There's really not much to learn. You can do OCLL the exact same as regular Megaminx, and there's only 3 PLLs. After 4 days and 100 solves my session shows an average at just barely sub44. Then yesterday I did an Ao25 in one sitting and got a 40.64. Obv being Full OCLL helps, but whatever you're doing on Mega will work.


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## Shaky Hands (Jul 15, 2016)

New 3x3 PB single 17.09 (was 17.80)

Can't suss out the reconstruction unfortunately. Finished with F Double-Sexy F' OLL and a PLL skip.

Scramble was B2 L2 B' L2 F D2 B2 U2 F2 L D2 L U' F' D U2 F L' U2 and I think my inspection/cross was (x2 y) D R U' B2 F R'.


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## bubbagrub (Jul 15, 2016)

MarcelP said:


> Ok, look at this wicket cross:
> 
> *B2 F2 R2 D2 B U2 F D2 F U' L' D' L2 D2 U' F2 L' F U*
> 
> ...



Silly question: how did you know that double-sexy would have the effect of swapping those two edges?


----------



## MarcelP (Jul 15, 2016)

bubbagrub said:


> Silly question: how did you know that double-sexy would have the effect of swapping those two edges?


Learned it in a video of xxoxia.


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## JanW (Jul 17, 2016)

Finally, 3/3 mbld success! What a great feeling to open your eyes and see a line of solved cubes! 

I've been doing 3 scrambles at a time from weekly comp mbld list. These were scrambles 19-21, so 7th attempt. In the first 6 attempts I had only 2 completely messed up cubes, then a lot with 1 or 2 minor errors, and of course some solved ones as well.

Didn't use a timer, just a glance at the watch before and after I started. About 27 minutes for the successful attempt.


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## muchacho (Jul 17, 2016)

Congrats, that's awesome!


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## h2f (Jul 17, 2016)

JanW said:


> Finally, 3/3 mbld success! What a great feeling to open your eyes and see a line of solved cubes!
> 
> I've been doing 3 scrambles at a time from weekly comp mbld list. These were scrambles 19-21, so 7th attempt. In the first 6 attempts I had only 2 completely messed up cubes, then a lot with 1 or 2 minor errors, and of course some solved ones as well.
> 
> Didn't use a timer, just a glance at the watch before and after I started. About 27 minutes for the successful attempt.


Awsome!


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## mafergut (Jul 17, 2016)

Wow! That's great. Congratulations!

Sent from my Nexus 4 with Tapatalk


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## Lid (Jul 17, 2016)

Crushed my 6x6 a12 with a *4:23.31* --> 4:09.28, 4:11.04, 4:38.14, (4:50.88), 4:08.23, 4:26.70, 4:34.56, 4:25.58, 4:22.58, 4:28.04, (4:05.23), 4:28.97 (old was ~5:24 so a 1 minute shaved off.)

Also got another sub16 a12 on 3x3, 15.61 (my 2nd best I think).

Now I'll wait for more new cubes just had to get a stickerless 2x2 + the SS kilominx and the X-man megaminx 

Too bad the the coverage on Euros is = to zero, even cubecomps is down


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## Shaky Hands (Jul 17, 2016)

Lid said:


> Now I'll wait for more new cubes just had to get a stickerless 2x2 + the SS kilominx and the X-man megaminx
> Too bad the the coverage on Euros is = to zero, even cubecomps is down



Try http://wyniki.kostkarubika.org/ as a temporary fix, this is showing the latest event's results.


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## muchacho (Jul 17, 2016)

A question for those with a Kilominx... Can it be tensioned? Some sides are much tighter than others.

Single: 2:03.792
Ao5: 2:38.244


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## mafergut (Jul 17, 2016)

muchacho said:


> A question for those with a Kilominx... Can it be tensioned? Some sides are much tighter than others.
> 
> Single: 2:03.792
> Ao5: 2:38.244



I have watched a review/unboxing, I think by "convinsa" where she removed the tiny center caps with a screwdriver and there were screw heads below them, so I assume the answer is yes.

Nice times already, David, with the Kilominx. You'll make me sweat hard to try and catch you when I receive mine.

First ever Ao5 with 6x6 and also 7x7 for the weekly comp. My arms hurt so much!!! Still very careful turning the Yuxin 6x6 because it locks and pops like crazy if I'm not careful. I turn the Aofu GT with much more confidence. Best times so far 8:25.xx with the 6x6 and 14:24.xx with the 7x7. Happy with the 14min on 7x7 after probably my 6th solve ever of a 7x7.


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## muchacho (Jul 17, 2016)

Ah great thanks, I didn't think that were center caps


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## mafergut (Jul 17, 2016)

muchacho said:


> Ah great thanks, I didn't think that were center caps


I didn't think of that either and I had heard in some other review that it could not be tensioned but then I watched that. Tell me if you can remove them


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## muchacho (Jul 17, 2016)

Yeah, it was easy to remove them (with my nails), tensioned it a bit and single is now 1:43.234.


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## mafergut (Jul 18, 2016)

muchacho said:


> Yeah, it was easy to remove them (with my nails), tensioned it a bit and single is now 1:43.234.


I received my SS Kilominx. I also had to loosen up a bit 2 or 3 centers and after that it turns fine but it's a pain to scramble with Mega scrambles as it moves around so much that it locks up a lot while scrambling. After 2-3 untimed solves to get the hang of it I have timed like 8-9 solves and I'm on my way to my 1st Ao12. Up to now, best Ao5 is:

Generated By csTimer on 2016-7-18
avg of 5: 1:59.29

Time List:
1:50.41, 2:08.28, (2:54.97), (1:46.74), 1:59.16

The 2:54 was a solve where I would insist on inserting the corners in the wrong orientation all the time to end up spoiling part of S2L during LL. The sub-2min are all quite easy LL (2-3 Niklas followed by just orienting 2-3 corners). When I have to orient 4-5 corners it ends up being a 2:30 or worse.


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## CLL Smooth (Jul 18, 2016)

mafergut said:


> I received my SS Kilominx. I also had to loosen up a bit 2 or 3 centers and after that it turns fine but it's a pain to scramble with Mega scrambles as it moves around so much that it locks up a lot while scrambling. After 2-3 untimed solves to get the hang of it I have timed like 8-9 solves and I'm on my way to my 1st Ao12. Up to now, best Ao5 is:
> 
> Generated By csTimer on 2016-7-18
> avg of 5: 1:59.29
> ...


You should learn OCLL. That should help you out quite a bit. On a lot of cases I just use Sune combinations. Then you can use J/T/E perm to finish.


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## mafergut (Jul 18, 2016)

CLL Smooth said:


> You should learn OCLL. That should help you out quite a bit. On a lot of cases I just use Sune combinations. Then you can use J/T/E perm to finish.


I will have to take a look at that because with current method at times LL is half the solve of this little kilominx 
By the way, PB single 1:29.92, but PB Ao12 is 2:08.08 and I still get sup 2:30.xx when LL is bad.
I also have problems at times to identify the corner orientation


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## earth2dan (Jul 18, 2016)

All this talk about the SS Kilominx, I just had to go and order one 

Now, here's a question for anyone else here who's amassing a sizable collection of puzzles. How and where do you store them all? I keep a dozen or so of my most used puzzles on each of my desks (one desk at home, one at the office). Then I have a shelf above my desk at home where I keep all the rest, but it's getting pretty full. It's also a pain to dig out a puzzle that's been buried because my puzzle shelf is 4-5 puzzles deep and stacked 5 or more puzzles high. It's mostly organized by brand/type, but puzzles like pyraminx just end up wherever they fit because I can't really stack them.

Also, do you guys keep the boxes? I don't, I usually take the puzzle out and toss the box.


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## Jason Green (Jul 18, 2016)

So far I keep the boxes but I don't have a huge amount yet.


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## newtonbase (Jul 18, 2016)

I pile my cubes up on a chest of drawers in the cellar but keep whatever I've been using recently on top of the piano in the lounge. My wife complains that they are taking over the house but the piano is hers and she never plays it so I prefer to ignore her. 
Boxes go in the bin. I used to keep them but then couldn't remember why.


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## muchacho (Jul 18, 2016)

In a drawer, most in their boxes (the drawer is full of other things that could scratch the stickers).


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## Chree (Jul 18, 2016)

In a series of shoeboxes in my closet.

@mafergut Here are the PLLs I'm using on Kilominx so far. All 2 gen and pretty easy to memorize/execute. And if you don't like U2', you can mirror it pretty easy and turn everything into just U2 instead. Thanks to Walker Welch for the last one:

J-perm Case:
Alg: R2 U2' R2' U' R2 U2' R2'
Description: This is an EP alg from Megaminx.

T-Perm Case:
R2 U2' R2' U' (R2 U R2' U') R2 U2' R2'
Description: This is the "double" version of the above alg.

E-perm Case:
(R U2 R' U' R U' R) U' (R' U2 R U2 R' U R)
Description: Antisune, U', weird sune-like finish. Walker Welch found this on the Mega PLL site. I might prefer the inverse: (R' U' R U2' R' U2' R) U (R' U R' U R U2' R'). Mirror and mirror inverse are all also not bad.


Obv you could just continue to use normal PLLs, but I'm finding RUF algs on Kilo to be kinda cumbersome.

@CLL Smooth pointed out this OLL to me today as well. Pretty embarrassed I didn't figure it out, myself: F (R U R' U') F


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## mark49152 (Jul 18, 2016)

I keep my cubes in plastic crates. I used to flatten the boxes but now I have put the cubes back in them, for the main reason that I accumulated so many cubes I couldn't tell them apart, especially the 3x3s. It took a while to match up all the cubes and boxes.


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## mafergut (Jul 18, 2016)

I keep all the boxes for now and have them all in a couple of drawers but I just have like 40-50. If numbers eventually start getting into the hundreds I will have to think about different options. I like to keep them in the boxes when possible to protect them a little bit better. I would hate to have them on shelves getting all dusty.

@Chree, thanks for the algs. I will try to use them but I will have to think of a good strategy to orient corners as well.


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## Selkie (Jul 19, 2016)

Also used to keep boxes but to be fair have thrown away 80% Tend to keep boxes of cubes I am not fond of so either likely to sell on or when going to a comp tey wont be important enough for a cube bag.

As for the cubes!! Haha, wherever I can get away with storing them. Have a few large boxes and bags in the loft plus a large drawer and large box full in the study.


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## JanW (Jul 19, 2016)

What a relief to read about all your cube collections. I used to think I have way too many cube, but clearly I don't. My collection is very minimal and modest. Only about 20 cubes, keep them in a drawer, never saved any boxes.


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## JohnnyReggae (Jul 19, 2016)

I keep all the boxes in a cupboard and my cubes on my desk where I sit and solve. Don't have a huge collection yet, around 20 or so (unique, not counting multiple 3x3's etc), but the wife thinks I have too many  Started modding to justify having more


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## mafergut (Jul 19, 2016)

I just counted and I have 62, with the latest additions from yesterday (Kilominx and C4U Cubic 3x3x5). But more than half of those are 2x2-5x5 (I have 6 2x2s, 22 3x3s, 5 4x4s and 3 5x5s)... and 6 "minxes" (4 Megas, 1 Giga and 1 Kilo).


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## JanW (Jul 19, 2016)

I went to my drawer to count my cubes. In there I found my skewb, which I scrambled upon arrival but never once solved. Finally solved it, order is restored in the house.


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## mafergut (Jul 19, 2016)

JanW said:


> I went to my drawer to count my cubes. In there I found my skewb, which I scrambled upon arrival but never once solved. Finally solved it, order is restored in the house.


I tensioned, lubed and stickered my C4U Cubic 3x3x5 yesterday and tried to do a solve with the algs I knew for the 3x3x2. Got a case of parity on the inner layers and I didn't know how to solve it. Went to bed, 5 minutes later I had to get up, look the alg up and solve the puzzle. Am I too "Sheldon"? The very thought of having an unsolved skewb in my drawer for months is unsettling 

By the way, the sticker set for the C4U came with transfer tape and stickering the puzzle was a breeze. I will never sticker again a puzzle one by one 
I will show you guys the puzzle in my next video, in case you don't have one of these and might consider buying one.


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## h2f (Jul 19, 2016)

It's very interesting to read how you keep your cubes. I got no more than 40, I've sold few which I dont like or dont use. I keep them on a desk and in a suitcase. My suitcase is very old - my wife's grandgrandfather took it when he was a sailor in 40s or 50s. He died in 1997 (in age over 90) and hiss suitcase was taken by an uncle Andrzej. He gave it to my wife few years ago - he kept it in a barn and it wasnt used so he thought we might need it. We renew it a little bit. And my wife gave it to me when I asked.


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## JanW (Jul 19, 2016)

1/5 mbld. 2 cubes off by one 3-cycle, 1 cube off by two 3-cycles and one had some mistake in setup moves. But at least I managed in under 1 hour and could recall my memo with ease, so there is still hope.


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## earth2dan (Jul 19, 2016)

I haven't counted since the last time this discussion came up, but my collection is well over 100 now. I've been wanting to come up with a new storage/display strategy for a while because the ones that don't get used often are collecting dust, and I don't want to ruin them. Especially ones that have been set up to perform nicely.



mafergut said:


> Went to bed, 5 minutes later I had to get up, look the alg up and solve the puzzle. Am I too "Sheldon"? The very thought of having an unsolved skewb in my drawer for months is unsettling



Haha. My wife tells me I have OCD. All my puzzles are organized by brand, type, and oriented by colour scheme (At home: blue forward, white up. At the office green forward, white up). I struggle with the placement of my non-cubic, non-standard colour scheme puzzles. And NOTHING ever gets put on the shelf scrambled... shudder.

I have friends that will randomly turn, misplace, or even scramble a single puzzle when I'm not in the room. They think it's funny that I'll stop whatever I'm doing as soon as I notice it, because I simply cannot continue until that wrong has been corrected.


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## newtonbase (Jul 19, 2016)

I'll admit to having a scrambled Devil's Eyes puzzle. I've solved it once but would have to relearn it as my son decided to play with it.


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## Logiqx (Jul 19, 2016)

It's been a while since I posted a video so here's a 15.66 average of 5 (σ = 0.35):

(16.83), 16.00, 15.31, (15.18), 15.52


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## h2f (Jul 19, 2016)

Logiqx said:


> It's been a while since I posted a video so here's a 15.66 average of 5 (σ = 0.35):
> 
> (16.83), 16.00, 15.31, (15.18), 15.52



Impressive. And so consistent.


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## mafergut (Jul 19, 2016)

Logiqx said:


> It's been a while since I posted a video so here's a 15.66 average of 5 (σ = 0.35):
> (16.83), 16.00, 15.31, (15.18), 15.52



Very nice!!! When I can get this consistent it's around 17-18 sec solves. This is at least 2 seconds faster. I always enjoy watching your solves, F2L seems so calm and LL so fast and fluid. Congrats!

By the way, new 4x4 PB single = 1:07.18 while warming up for the weekly comp scrambles. More than 3 seconds better than previous one. Inching closer to sub-1 min single  Wasted this and a 1:18 warming up and then the weekly average was barely sub 1:30


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## Jason Green (Jul 20, 2016)

I'm going to Oregon 2016 competition August 27th and 28th! (Not Nationals which is also in Portland) My niece lives up there and I was able to get a cheap flight, so it worked out. I'm really excited, I've been needing a competition to get pumped about! I signed up for 2x2 - 5x5, OH, Skewb, and Pyraminx. Haha, I can barely do any of the last three, and honestly I don't care much. I'm still concerned about improving in 3x3 primarily.


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## Selkie (Jul 20, 2016)

PB Ao5 out of nowhere. Thought Id so 20 or so solves before starting work, then I got this...

Average of 5: 12.91
1. 13.44 F L2 B U2 R2 U2 F2 R2 B' U2 R D F2 D2 R2 U L' B' F2 D' L 
2. 11.84 U2 F U2 F2 D2 F2 L2 F R2 D2 F U' B' L2 F2 D L' R' B' D' L 
3. (11.22) L U2 L' U2 L F2 D2 F2 R F2 U L F D' L R2 D L D2 F 
4. (15.02) D2 B2 D2 R2 D2 R2 U2 B' R2 U2 B L' F2 D' F2 U B' R B' U2 R 
5. 13.46 D L2 D' B2 L2 D' U' B2 D' B2 L' B2 L' B D2 L2 D R D2 R 

11.84 was an easy WV case and the 11.22 a PLL skip. Really, really didn't think I would break 13s any time soon


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## JohnnyReggae (Jul 20, 2016)

Wow @Selkie ... awesome average ... well done !!


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## mafergut (Jul 20, 2016)

Selkie said:


> PB Ao5 out of nowhere. Thought Id so 20 or so solves before starting work, then I got this...
> 
> Average of 5: 12.91
> 1. 13.44 F L2 B U2 R2 U2 F2 R2 B' U2 R D F2 D2 R2 U L' B' F2 D' L
> ...


I'm speechless...! Congratulations. You are setting the bar higher and higher for the rest of us oldies here.


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## JohnnyReggae (Jul 20, 2016)

I'm struggling with 4x4's at the moment. I can't seem to settle on what to use. Currently I'm using a Meiying (1st batch) which turns to nicely and feels great to solve ... but ... the popping is starting to get to me and the more I use it the more it is popping and not just a internal piece either, more like an entire layer.

I have used the Moyu Aosu which I sold off to get the mini Aosu which I still use occasionally. While it turns smoothly it catches a lot and shoots out internal pieces about every 2nd or 3rd solve. I also have some GuanSu's that I've been using for mods and have spent some time just doing solves using them. They are fast, really fast which I really like. Problems ... it catches a fair amount and also shoots out the internal pieces quite often. Not as often as the Aosu mind you.

I've tried a Cyclone Boys and didn't like it as all. The inner layers were extremely sluggish and it had loads of catching issues.

What I haven't tried are the new Yuxin and KungFu cubes and was wondering if it was worth investing in getting either of those ?


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## mafergut (Jul 20, 2016)

JohnnyReggae said:


> I'm struggling with 4x4's at the moment. I can't seem to settle on what to use. Currently I'm using a Meiying (1st batch) which turns to nicely and feels great to solve ... but ... the popping is starting to get to me and the more I use it the more it is popping and not just a internal piece either, more like an entire layer.
> 
> I have used the Moyu Aosu which I sold off to get the mini Aosu which I still use occasionally. While it turns smoothly it catches a lot and shoots out internal pieces about every 2nd or 3rd solve. I also have some GuanSu's that I've been using for mods and have spent some time just doing solves using them. They are fast, really fast which I really like. Problems ... it catches a fair amount and also shoots out the internal pieces quite often. Not as often as the Aosu mind you.
> 
> ...


The reviews of the new Kungfu 4x4 (Cangfeng?) are great. Everyone loves it and it's quite cheap. But I have to say that the catching on the inner layers of the G4 goes away with just solves and the cube is great (it's my main). The new Yuxin 4x4 seems to be at least equally good with some lubing and tensioning. So it's all a matter of taste I think. Maybe if you prefer 62mm cubes you'll like the Kungfu better, I prefer the smaller 60mm ones.


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## muchacho (Jul 20, 2016)

Wow congrats @Selkie!

I have a new Ao5 PB also, but I feel so slow right now... 

Ao5: 18.463 (previous was 18.610 from 15 days ago)


Spoiler



23271 20-jul-2016 10:12:45 00:18.408 F2 D' B2 D L2 U2 R2 D2 F2 U' F2 R U B L2 D2 U F D2 F R' D2
23270 20-jul-2016 10:12:00 00:16.430 B2 D2 F2 R2 D L2 D2 B2 U' L2 D F' D L' U L' B2 L' F2 R' B2 D2
23269 20-jul-2016 10:11:14 00:22.416 R2 L2 B2 U F2 R2 L2 U' L2 U' R F2 L' F' D B' U' R2 U2
23268 20-jul-2016 10:10:38 00:18.087 U' B2 U' B2 D2 F2 L2 B2 F2 D' B2 L' D2 B' D2 R U2 F2 D' F L' U
23267 20-jul-2016 10:09:55 00:18.894 U' B2 U2 F2 U R2 D' F2 R2 F2 R2 B L' B R' L2 B' L U2 L F D'


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## mafergut (Jul 20, 2016)

David, @muchacho we have to improve at our own rythm. I have realized that putting too much pressure on me only leads to frustration. Looking up to his times is motivating, though but I realize I will not get there at least in two-three years if at all.


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## Selkie (Jul 20, 2016)

JohnnyReggae said:


> Wow @Selkie ... awesome average ... well done !!





mafergut said:


> I'm speechless...! Congratulations. You are setting the bar higher and higher for the rest of us oldies here.





muchacho said:


> Wow congrats @Selkie!
> 
> I have a new Ao5 PB also, but I feel so slow right now...
> 
> Ao5: 18.463 (previous was 18.610 from 15 days ago)





mafergut said:


> David, @muchacho we have to improve at our own rythm. I have realized that putting too much pressure on me only leads to frustration. Looking up to his times is motivating, though but I realize I will not get there at least in two-three years if at all.



Thanks guys. It really was out of nowhere. Well when I say nowhere, been feeling quite motivated having followed Euro's a lot last weekend.

Certainly do not feel slow of demotivated by seeing faster times. I was on a plateau of ~17s for 3-4 years and it is only in the last year where I have started seeing improvement again. You never know what improvement will come but just enjoy it, practice and chase your own goals and PBs 



JohnnyReggae said:


> I've tried a Cyclone Boys and didn't like it as all. The inner layers were extremely sluggish and it had loads of catching issues.
> 
> What I haven't tried are the new Yuxin and KungFu cubes and was wondering if it was worth investing in getting either of those ?



I would also say I had a lot of catching on the CB but this only lasted 50 or so solves and it has been my main for months. That said I have not ordered any of the newer cubes (Out in the last 2 months) so I must try and catch up at some stage


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## JanW (Jul 20, 2016)

Really impressive times @Selkie! I can't imagine ever being that fast. But who know, maybe in 4-5 years...

I ordered a KungFu cube yesterday. It was called YuMo QingHong at cubezz, but reviews seem to refer to it as KungFu QingHong. It's a rather cheap 3x3, I ordered a couple of other cheap 3x3s as well, including Thunderclap v2. If I can find something I like in the 5$ range, I might order a few more for mbld. The other option would be to buy a few more TangLongs, I already have 2. I won't be needing 10+ anytime soon, so the investment wouldn't be that big.


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## CLL Smooth (Jul 20, 2016)

Jason Green said:


> I'm going to Oregon 2016 competition August 27th and 28th! (Not Nationals which is also in Portland) My niece lives up there and I was able to get a cheap flight, so it worked out. I'm really excited, I've been needing a competition to get pumped about! I signed up for 2x2 - 5x5, OH, Skewb, and Pyraminx. Haha, I can barely do any of the last three, and honestly I don't care much. I'm still concerned about improving in 3x3 primarily.


Awesome! This comp should be really fun. I still need to sign up but I'm doing all of those events plus mega. I might even get talked into attempting 3BLD again.


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## JohnnyReggae (Jul 20, 2016)

mafergut said:


> The reviews of the new Kungfu 4x4 (Cangfeng?) are great. Everyone loves it and it's quite cheap. But I have to say that the catching on the inner layers of the G4 goes away with just solves and the cube is great (it's my main). The new Yuxin 4x4 seems to be at least equally good with some lubing and tensioning. So it's all a matter of taste I think. Maybe if you prefer 62mm cubes you'll like the Kungfu better, I prefer the smaller 60mm ones.


I've watched reviews of both cubes and both seem to get a thumbs up, the Yuxin more so. Although there is some work involved to get it good which kind of bugs me as I want to be able to use a cube out the box without having to mod it etc...

As for size I like my mini Aosu for that reason, but I have gotten used to the Meiying which is 62mm. Either way I'd like a 4x4 that doesn't pop, or rather that pops far less frequently.


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## Lid (Jul 20, 2016)

A PB 4x4 single out of nowhere just before bed last night: *50.45* with PLL parity even!


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## Jason Green (Jul 20, 2016)

Selkie said:


> PB Ao5 out of nowhere. Thought Id so 20 or so solves before starting work, then I got this...
> 
> Average of 5: 12.91
> 1. 13.44 F L2 B U2 R2 U2 F2 R2 B' U2 R D F2 D2 R2 U L' B' F2 D' L
> ...


That's really awesome! I don't even expect to beat my single of 12.83 anytime soon. 


CLL Smooth said:


> Awesome! This comp should be really fun. I still need to sign up but I'm doing all of those events plus mega. I might even get talked into attempting 3BLD again.


Looks like there is lots of room for now. It is at a mall which will be interesting and cool. Are you from that area?

Btw, what's your name? I've seen you post but don't recall. Are you an oldie?


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## muchacho (Jul 20, 2016)

Today was one of those random good days, I had to exploit it so I've done more than 150 solves trying to beat some PBs 

Ao5: 18.313 (was 18.463 from this morning)
Mo100: 21.744 (was 22.117 from 13 days ago)


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## h2f (Jul 20, 2016)

muchacho said:


> Today was one of those random good days, I had to exploit it so I've done more than 150 solves trying to beat some PBs
> 
> Ao5: 18.313 (was 18.463 from this morning)
> Mo100: 21.744 (was 22.117 from 13 days ago)



Nice!


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## mafergut (Jul 20, 2016)

Nice, David @muchacho, you are improving steadily and that's always motivating. I know what you say about random good days. I have some of those as well. Sadly you never know when the next one will come 

Nice Ao12 in the 2x2 Race to sub-5 today but still no sub-5. This is going to take soooo long and I will have to learn some new tricks if I want to succeed. Willing to try, though


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## muchacho (Jul 20, 2016)

If I get a sub-7 there next week (which is doubtful, last 2 ao12 were just too good) I will try sub-6.5, because sub-6 would take me 1 year... I was not sure if I could chose a different goal than the ones available in the first post of that thread, but I don't care, I'll cheat 

edit: I think this is week 17 trying to be sub-7 after being sub-8


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## CLL Smooth (Jul 20, 2016)

Jason Green said:


> That's really awesome! I don't even expect to beat my single of 12.83 anytime soon.
> 
> Looks like there is lots of room for now. It is at a mall which will be interesting and cool. Are you from that area?
> 
> Btw, what's your name? I've seen you post but don't recall. Are you an oldie?


Hey Jason, I'm Barry. I do live in the Portland/Beaverton area.
We've already had a comp at that venue and it went really well.
I like this thread cause it's pretty random and it's on the home page everyday. I am getting up there in age too. Though I prefer "oldie but goodie"


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## Jason Green (Jul 20, 2016)

CLL Smooth said:


> Hey Jason, I'm Barry. I do live in the Portland/Beaverton area.
> We've already had a comp at that venue and it went really well.
> I like this thread cause it's pretty random and it's on the home page everyday. I am getting up there in age too. Though I prefer "oldie but goodie"



It's not bad being the odd ball old guy at comps, since I seem to fit right in anyway.  Although one comp had a guy about my age (that I noticed). It'll be cool to meet you there. 

Funny thing my niece's dad (my older brother) is named Barry.


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## moralsh (Jul 20, 2016)

@muchacho, @Selkie and @Logiqx, very nice averages, it's nice to see continuous improvement from you guys.

I've been practicing more than normal this past week and I have had some nice results

Mega: 2:55.something At last a sub 3 
3BLD: Several solvers around 1:30, even some bad ones end being sub 2

I've been practicing Scrambles with the cross already done and had some encouraging (at least for me) results

Ao5 12.69
Ao12 13.12
Singles: several 10s 
I'd say I'm globally sub 16, I need to practice Cross + first pair and inspect better, I turn faster than I thought so maybe with some dedicated practice I can improve a second or two.


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## JohnnyReggae (Jul 22, 2016)

JohnnyReggae said:


> I've watched reviews of both cubes and both seem to get a thumbs up, the Yuxin more so. Although there is some work involved to get it good which kind of bugs me as I want to be able to use a cube out the box without having to mod it etc...
> 
> As for size I like my mini Aosu for that reason, but I have gotten used to the Meiying which is 62mm. Either way I'd like a 4x4 that doesn't pop, or rather that pops far less frequently.


So decided on the Yuxin Blue 4x4 and ordered one  Should be here in about a month unfortunately, but that's what you have to deal with when ordering from China. Mind you packages from China arrive faster than from the USA ... go figure ..

On the topic of 4x4 .... I use Yau and I'm happy with using it. I currently average around the 1:30 mark, sometimes quicker ... sometimes not. My biggest waste of time is the 3 cross edges after the first 2 centers. I spend so much time looking for those pieces that it really is affecting my times. Does anyone have advice with Yau and the 3 cross edges ? I know it's all down to practise but there must be something I can look out for ?


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## Logiqx (Jul 22, 2016)

JohnnyReggae said:


> On the topic of 4x4 .... I use Yau and I'm happy with using it. I currently average around the 1:30 mark, sometimes quicker ... sometimes not. My biggest waste of time is the 3 cross edges after the first 2 centers. I spend so much time looking for those pieces that it really is affecting my times. Does anyone have advice with Yau and the 3 cross edges ? I know it's all down to practise but there must be something I can look out for ?



Try to spot some cross edges as you are completing your F2C. It also helps to turn more slowly during the F3E so that you can search for and keep track of the cross pieces. Speed up again for the L4C.


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## Selkie (Jul 22, 2016)

JohnnyReggae said:


> So decided on the Yuxin Blue 4x4 and ordered one  Should be here in about a month unfortunately, but that's what you have to deal with when ordering from China. Mind you packages from China arrive faster than from the USA ... go figure ..
> 
> On the topic of 4x4 .... I use Yau and I'm happy with using it. I currently average around the 1:30 mark, sometimes quicker ... sometimes not. My biggest waste of time is the 3 cross edges after the first 2 centers. I spend so much time looking for those pieces that it really is affecting my times. Does anyone have advice with Yau and the 3 cross edges ? I know it's all down to practise but there must be something I can look out for ?



This always was and still is the slow part of my solve. Ive used Yau for about 4 years. It is also a step that I found hard to look away from the pair of dedges I was solving and so lookahead was near non existent. As @Logiqx Michael said, try and get some lookahead from prior step but also try the trainign tat a lot of people do for F2L. Find a matching pair of dedges and then solve them with your eyes closed, rince and repeat. Tht will hopefully train your brain to be looking for the next ones


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## h2f (Jul 22, 2016)

Yes, tracking edge pieces when finishing second center helps a lot to get better times. 

Back to 3x3 records - I have a sheet with 102 scrambles which I've made 2 years ago before first competiotion. I've printed it and I was making solves in my free time in a job (breaks etc.). My times were over 40 than. Yesterday I've back to it and decided to make ao100. It finshed with 19.98 and rolled my ao1000 to 19.88.


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## mark49152 (Jul 22, 2016)

JohnnyReggae said:


> On the topic of 4x4 .... I use Yau and I'm happy with using it. I currently average around the 1:30 mark, sometimes quicker ... sometimes not. My biggest waste of time is the 3 cross edges after the first 2 centers. I spend so much time looking for those pieces that it really is affecting my times. Does anyone have advice with Yau and the 3 cross edges ? I know it's all down to practise but there must be something I can look out for ?


Or, switch to Hoya. I could never get the hang of Yau cross edges and found Hoya much easier to improve with. In my opinion, Yau really depends on having good lookahead and vision/awareness around the cube. The fundamental difference is that with Hoya you only need to look for and insert one piece at a time, whereas with Yau you need to find two matching pieces. So Hoya is easier for lookahead and has a smaller number of simpler insertion cases.


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## muchacho (Jul 22, 2016)

I put some Maru lube on the cube and 21 solves later I got some PBs, it's magic!

Ao5: 18.194 (it was 18.313 from 2 days ago)
Ao12: 18.733 (it was 19.858 from 5-jul)



Spoiler: Ao5/Ao12



23493 22-jul-2016 11:00:25 00:19.880 B2 D R2 U R2 F2 R2 U' F2 D' B D' L' D2 U2 L2 U' L B' L2 D'
*23492 22-jul-2016 10:59:35 00:15.743 U' B2 L2 U' L2 U' B2 L2 F2 U R F2 R2 D' B D F' D U2 R
23491 22-jul-2016 10:58:49 00:20.559 F2 R2 B2 D' B2 D2 L2 D2 L2 B2 D2 L U' B L D2 F' U2 L B L2 D2
23490 22-jul-2016 10:58:05 00:16.313 L2 D B2 U' R2 B2 U2 L2 U B2 D L' D' B U R' L2 U2 L' D' B U'
23489 22-jul-2016 10:57:21 00:19.054 U L2 U B2 R2 D2 B2 R2 D' B2 U' R B D R B D2 L D F R U
23488 22-jul-2016 10:56:34 00:19.216 U2 F2 L2 U2 B2 U' B2 U2 L2 F2 U2 F' U' R2 L2 D' F' U L B2 D2 U'*
23487 22-jul-2016 10:55:49 00:18.887 B2 R2 U2 F2 D R2 D R2 D U' B' R2 L2 U' R' D U F2 L F' U'
23486 22-jul-2016 10:55:13 00:16.918 D2 F2 D' F2 U R2 U L2 F2 L2 F R' L2 D2 R B' D' R2 L B
23485 22-jul-2016 10:54:34 00:17.903 D' L2 B2 L2 D B2 F2 D' R2 L2 B' L2 B U2 F' R' D2 R2 U B2
23484 22-jul-2016 10:53:56 00:19.397 B2 D B2 F2 L2 U2 R2 U' R2 F2 D2 F' R D' F2 D2 L' F R2 U B
23483 22-jul-2016 10:53:12 00:23.687 D' R2 U F2 U R2 D B2 D2 F2 D2 R' F' R B D U' B' L B' F'
23482 22-jul-2016 10:52:34 00:19.208 R2 D' F2 D2 F2 L2 U R2 U2 F2 L' B R' L F' L2 B2 F2 U2 L2


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## Selkie (Jul 22, 2016)

muchacho said:


> I put some Maru lube on the cube and 21 solves later I got some PBs, it's magic!
> 
> Ao5: 18.194 (it was 18.313 from 2 days ago)
> Ao12: 18.733 (it was 19.858 from 5-jul)



Love Maru lube but tend to keep it for comp for a little bit of "Go Faster"


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## muchacho (Jul 22, 2016)

Yeah, it lasts so little that I use it only a couple times a month, to try to get PBs.


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## JohnnyReggae (Jul 22, 2016)

Logiqx said:


> Try to spot some cross edges as you are completing your F2C. It also helps to turn more slowly during the F3E so that you can search for and keep track of the cross pieces. Speed up again for the L4C.


My look ahead on 3x3 has been improving of late so I will definitely try make use of that skill for the F3E step .




Selkie said:


> This always was and still is the slow part of my solve. Ive used Yau for about 4 years. It is also a step that I found hard to look away from the pair of dedges I was solving and so lookahead was near non existent. As @Logiqx Michael said, try and get some lookahead from prior step but also try the trainign tat a lot of people do for F2L. Find a matching pair of dedges and then solve them with your eyes closed, rince and repeat. Tht will hopefully train your brain to be looking for the next ones


Another great idea. My other problem with the F3E's is that I always use the same moves to pair edges and I know they are not efficient. I've watched videos of guys doing Yau and Hoya and I'm always lost when trying to see WTH they are doing. But I like the idea of closing my eyes to pair edges, I know that definitely helps with look ahead.



mark49152 said:


> Or, switch to Hoya. I could never get the hang of Yau cross edges and found Hoya much easier to improve with. In my opinion, Yau really depends on having good lookahead and vision/awareness around the cube. The fundamental difference is that with Hoya you only need to look for and insert one piece at a time, whereas with Yau you need to find two matching pieces. So Hoya is easier for lookahead and has a smaller number of simpler insertion cases.


To be honest I've briefly looked at Hoya but not enough to put it into practise. Perhaps it is something that I should invest some time into, however I feel quite comfortable with the Yau process. Hoya seems more complicated from a process point of view even though it is the same steps as Yau, just in a different order. But at least I have options


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## h2f (Jul 22, 2016)

muchacho said:


> I put some Maru lube on the cube and 21 solves later I got some PBs, it's magic!
> 
> Ao5: 18.194 (it was 18.313 from 2 days ago)
> Ao12: 18.733 (it was 19.858 from 5-jul)
> ...



Awsome!


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## mark49152 (Jul 22, 2016)

JohnnyReggae said:


> Hoya seems more complicated from a process point of view even though it is the same steps as Yau, just in a different order.


Not really, I would say it's pretty much the same complexity of concepts/process, just easier to execute.

On another topic, how's this for a feat of memory. I tried a 5BLD in my lunch break today. Seemed to be going great until I got half way through execution and realised I'd overlooked to memo the midges. So I stopped, looked at the cube, and realised that even though I'd memoed the +-centres I'd forgotten to execute them. With memory like this, maybe I should give up!


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## Chree (Jul 22, 2016)

Jason Green said:


> I'm going to Oregon 2016 competition August 27th and 28th! (Not Nationals which is also in Portland) My niece lives up there and I was able to get a cheap flight, so it worked out. I'm really excited, I've been needing a competition to get pumped about! I signed up for 2x2 - 5x5, OH, Skewb, and Pyraminx. Haha, I can barely do any of the last three, and honestly I don't care much. I'm still concerned about improving in 3x3 primarily.



I'll see you there 

@JohnnyReggae... imho, Hoya is less complicated, has fewer steps, can take better advantage of easier cases, and has less variance.

Yau Steps: F2C > 3 Cross Edges > L4C > Last Cross Edge > L8E > 3x3 Stage = 6 steps
Hoya Steps: F4C > Hoya Cross > L2C > L8E > 3x3 Stage = 5 steps


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## Jason Green (Jul 22, 2016)

Chree said:


> I'll see you there


Awesome!


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## newtonbase (Jul 23, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> On another topic, how's this for a feat of memory. I tried a 5BLD in my lunch break today. Seemed to be going great until I got half way through execution and realised I'd overlooked to memo the midges. So I stopped, looked at the cube, and realised that even though I'd memoed the +-centres I'd forgotten to execute them. With memory like this, maybe I should give up!


Let's hope you do better on the lunch break next Saturday.


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## teacher77 (Jul 24, 2016)

Hello people,

I'm new around here and since I'm 39, this "older cubers" discussion seemed like a nice place to say hi 

I started cubing in May (learned the beginners method in the night of april 30th), then ordered a few cubes (I am now using a weilong GTS), and I have been steadily improving since then.

My "average of 10+" is now down to 42.68 s with a PB (single) of 32.06 s. Are there people around here at the same stage, who feel like comparing and exchanging tricks ?

I figured like posting this progress pic. The anotations are in French but are translated in the text bellow. Anyway the dots are self explanatory :



At first, I did the LL by orienting the edges, permuting the edges, permuting the corners and then orienting the corners. As the graph shows, my times went down when I started to introduce "regular" 4LLL gradually. Then my PB went slightly down when I switched to weilong GTS (I used a GuoGuan before) and obviously my times went further down when I started F2L. I also wrote down around which date I started feeling quite confortable with all the algs of 4LLL, although I must confess that I still avoid the E-perm by using two A-perms (Anyone knows of a good E-perm alg ?).

Apart from that, what would you do next to improve ?


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## Jason Green (Jul 24, 2016)

Welcome @teacher77! This is definitely the place to be. I'm about 10 months ahead on getting into speed cubing. It's hard for me to keep track of everyone's average in here, partly because people always improve so fast. But yes there should be plenty to learn from this thread, and even those who are faster now will have good tips for where you are at. Plus you'll get lots of feedback if you post a video unlike the video area of the forum (from my experience). So looks like you are currently doing F2L? Do you do two look PLL and OLL?


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## mark49152 (Jul 24, 2016)

Welcome @teacher77 , you're in the right place 

For E perm I use R' U' R' D' R U' R' D R U R' D' R U R' D R2. It helps if you get used to pushing D' moves with your left ring finger, as well as pulling D moves. Once you get the hang of it, it flows beautifully.


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## JanW (Jul 24, 2016)

Welcome @teacher77! Yes, this is the place to be. 

The logical next step for you would be to learn full PLL. I just finished that a few weeks ago. It might seem like a massive undertaking, but it's really not that bad. I started by learning the cases that have one side already completely solved, the J perms and F perm. They are easy to recognize during solves and have nice algs. The other option, if you want to reduce the amounts of E perms you need to do, is to start by learning the PLL cases with diagonal corner swaps. N perms are rare, but the algs are among the easiest to learn (not necessarily fastest to execute). The Y perm is really nice and easy to recognize, V perm is also easy to recognize, though the alg is still messing up my head sometimes...

That said, you probably still have a lot of room for improvement also by improving F2L and look ahead. That's an area where you never stop to improve. Slow solves where you concentrate on trying to find the next pair while solving the previous pair are very good to do. I think it's good to do it mostly intuitively, but if there is some case that always takes you a lot of moves to solve, you can look up some alg for how it could be done more efficiently. algdb.net is a good source for algs.


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## mark49152 (Jul 24, 2016)

Grzegorz @h2f : You made a series of videos just talking to the camera - I'm just curious, what are they about?


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## JohnnyReggae (Jul 24, 2016)

Chree said:


> I'll see you there
> 
> @JohnnyReggae... imho, Hoya is less complicated, has fewer steps, can take better advantage of easier cases, and has less variance.
> 
> ...


Ok ... started looking more proactively at Hoya. Have done a few slow solves just trying to get my head around what I can and can't move particularly when doing the Hoya cross. Going to spend some more time later today doing more solves. Hopefully I can start speeding up at a point to really put it to the test.


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## newtonbase (Jul 24, 2016)

JohnnyReggae said:


> Ok ... started looking more proactively at Hoya. Have done a few slow solves just trying to get my head around what I can and can't move particularly when doing the Hoya cross. Going to spend some more time later today doing more solves. Hopefully I can start speeding up at a point to really put it to the test.


I'm only now getting to my Yau times in Hoya after several weeks but I don't practice much. I did look to go back to Yau but realised that I really don't like it as much. Trying to find 2 cross edges at a time rather than one was the deciding factor. I'd hoped to get to cut off times by the competition next weekend but that's not going to happen.


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## One Wheel (Jul 24, 2016)

teacher77 said:


> Hello people,
> 
> I'm new around here and since I'm 39, this "older cubers" discussion seemed like a nice place to say hi
> 
> ...



Welcome! At 29 I'm a little young to consider myself an old cuber, but I tend to hang out on this thread anyway. Most of the people I see posting times here are a lot faster than you and I. I'm about a year ahead of you as far as how long I've been cubing, but I only recently (the last month or so) made a jump from averaging around 42 seconds to about 34-35 seconds. 

Full PLL is in my observation worth it. If I recall correctly switching from 2- look to 1-look PLL was helpful in getting me from around 48 to around 42 seconds. Other things that helped were a lot of 4x4 practice (because 4 is better than 3), and oddly enough practicing OH solving. For the E-perm watch cyotheking's video. When I first learned it I did D' moves with my right ring finger and it was terrible. If you do all D and D' moves with your left ring finger the standard alg is really a very nice alg.


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## h2f (Jul 24, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> Grzegorz @h2f : You made a series of videos just talking to the camera - I'm just curious, what are they about?



 They are about things around speedcubing.
- Introducing myself
- blindfolded solving, memory etc.
- going back from a competiotion
- my job - philosophy and connection with speesolving (I'm a fellow of philosophy on the university)
- what exists? world and words
- Euro 2016 in Prague.

I'm too lazy to make subtitles.


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## JanW (Jul 24, 2016)

One Wheel said:


> For the E-perm watch cyotheking's video. When I first learned it I did D' moves with my right ring finger and it was terrible. If you do all D and D' moves with your left ring finger the standard alg is really a very nice alg.


I've tried to do this, but I've never been able to figure out how to do it so that it would become "really nice"... I now tried it again and can see the benefit of performing the first D' move with left ring finger. I'll try to get used to that. The last D' move, however, seems to be perfect to execute with right ring finger...

I'm having a bit of a ZZ crisis at the moment. Haven't felt very motivated to practice. Mostly I've been doing bld solves last week and whenever I solve eyes open, either because of messed up bld solve or I just pick up the cube to play with it, I find myself solving with CFOP and 2 look OLL. I wonder if I should take this as a sign that I should practice some CFOP and maybe learn a bit of OLL.


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## h2f (Jul 24, 2016)

@JanW, maybe doing ZZ helps you with CFOP as it was in my case and Roux. I didnt stop practice Roux but my times with CFOP are much better - I got first ao5 sub17 and ao12 sub18.


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## JanW (Jul 24, 2016)

@h2f I'm sure it will. I already notice I think of F2L differently after all those ZZ solves. So far I have never timed any CFOP solves with 2 look OLL and full PLL. It would be interesting to try an Ao100 and see where I stand. I'll try to do that in the next few days.


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## mark49152 (Jul 24, 2016)

h2f said:


> They are about things around speedcubing.
> - Introducing myself
> - blindfolded solving, memory etc.
> - going back from a competiotion
> ...


I wish I could understand Polish - the philosophy one sounds interesting. And your thoughts on blind and memory too.


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## h2f (Jul 24, 2016)

@mark49152 Thank you for your kind words. I can see few similiarities between philosphy and speedsolving, for example thinking in a different systems. For example: Roux, CFOP or ZZ are such systems and one can move between them changing its point of view. It's hard for me to describe it in English but I find it to be one of philosophical issues. In my job I'm in the Polish analitycal philosphy which is connected with logic (semantics).


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## teacher77 (Jul 24, 2016)

Jason Green said:


> Welcome @teacher77! This is definitely the place to be. I'm about 10 months ahead on getting into speed cubing. It's hard for me to keep track of everyone's average in here, partly because people always improve so fast. But yes there should be plenty to learn from this thread, and even those who are faster now will have good tips for where you are at. Plus you'll get lots of feedback if you post a video unlike the video area of the forum (from my experience). So looks like you are currently doing F2L? Do you do two look PLL and OLL?



Hi Jason and thanks for the warm welcome !

Yes I use 2-look OLL and 2-look PLL (that's what I meant by 4LLL - 4 look last layer). The only alg that I still don't use is the E-perm. All E-perm algs that I saw are either hard to learn or slow to perform.

And yes, I started using Fridrich-like F2L 3 weeks ago. Although my times had worsen during 2 weeks, they are now down by 6 seconds compared to what they were before F2L. See the graph I posted. I'm really proud of that 6 seconds gain in a single week.


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## teacher77 (Jul 24, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> Welcome @teacher77 , you're in the right place
> 
> For E perm I use R' U' R' D' R U' R' D R U R' D' R U R' D R2. It helps if you get used to pushing D' moves with your left ring finger, as well as pulling D moves. Once you get the hang of it, it flows beautifully.



That's 17 (rather hard to remember) moves while using A-perm twice is 18 (easy) moves. How can it be much faster ?


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## Jason Green (Jul 24, 2016)

teacher77 said:


> Hi Jason and thanks for the warm welcome !
> 
> Yes I use 2-look OLL and 2-look PLL (that's what I meant by 4LLL - 4 look last layer). The only alg that I still don't use is the E-perm. All E-perm algs that I saw are either hard to learn or slow to perform.
> 
> And yes, I started using Fridrich-like F2L 3 weeks ago. Although my times had worsen during 2 weeks, they are now down by 6 seconds compared to what they were before F2L. See the graph I posted. I'm really proud of that 6 seconds gain in a single week.


I saw later, I missed the part under your graph somehow before. 

As far as algs being hard to remember, as you probably know once they get into your muscle memory there is really nothing to remember at all. As someone mentioned, algdb is a great way to try how different options feel. I still have a few algs I might consider changing some day.


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## teacher77 (Jul 24, 2016)

JanW said:


> The logical next step for you would be to learn full PLL. I just finished that a few weeks ago. It might seem like a massive undertaking, but it's really not that bad. I started by learning the cases that have one side already completely solved, the J perms and F perm. They are easy to recognize during solves and have nice algs. The other option, if you want to reduce the amounts of E perms you need to do, is to start by learning the PLL cases with diagonal corner swaps. N perms are rare, but the algs are among the easiest to learn (not necessarily fastest to execute). The Y perm is really nice and easy to recognize, V perm is also easy to recognize, though the alg is still messing up my head sometimes...



Thanks, this is great advice ! What source are you using for algs ? I use the ones on badmephisto's site (except the Eperm, which I can't stand). Do you recommend them ?

Also, I was wondering if you had tips to help recognize the different cases ? How many sides do you need to look at ?



JanW said:


> That said, you probably still have a lot of room for improvement also by improving F2L and look ahead. That's an area where you never stop to improve. Slow solves where you concentrate on trying to find the next pair while solving the previous pair are very good to do. I think it's good to do it mostly intuitively, but if there is some case that always takes you a lot of moves to solve, you can look up some alg for how it could be done more efficiently. algdb.net is a good source for algs.



Yes, this is what I'm concentrating on right now. In fact, I find it hard to look ahead because I'm not always looking at the top of the cube (I like solving F2L cases where a corner is on the D layer and I need to look under to identify it ; I'll post a video where it shows ; advice on this would be great). I might be silly to say, but I had a much easier time at looking ahead when I used a layer by layer approach for F2L.


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## teacher77 (Jul 24, 2016)

One Wheel said:


> For the E-perm watch cyotheking's video. When I first learned it I did D' moves with my right ring finger and it was terrible. If you do all D and D' moves with your left ring finger the standard alg is really a very nice alg.



Which alg do you call the "standard" alg for Eperm ?


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## h2f (Jul 24, 2016)

teacher77 said:


> Which alg do you call the "standard" alg for Eperm ?



I think badmephisto's is a standard alg. It's very fast and when you know standard OLLs you can see that it's made of 2 OLL's.


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## teacher77 (Jul 24, 2016)

Here's a video showing what I said about solving pairs with their corner on the D layer. It's not a PB or anything but if you care to comment, I'd gladly listen 

EDIT : seems like the vid was too large. Lemme find a way to shrink it.


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## Jason Green (Jul 24, 2016)

I used pretty much entirely bad mephisto's cheat sheet for OLL and PLL. I think the only one I changed was the N Perm that the guys here told me about.


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## JanW (Jul 24, 2016)

teacher77 said:


> That's 17 (rather hard to remember) moves while using A-perm twice is 18 (easy) moves. How can it be much faster ?


You also have to account for recognition time and cube rotations. If you do the E perm as 2 A perms, there's a stop in between.

I also disliked the E perm at first, it takes a while to get used to. I'm still not very fast performing it, but it keeps getting better. On youtube you can look up cyotheking's "E perm like a pro" video and see that it can be done in <1 second (though probably very few people are capable of this...). His like a pro -videos are very good for learning how to finger trick PLL algs.


teacher77 said:


> Thanks, this is great advice ! What source are you using for algs ? I use the ones on badmephisto's site (except the Eperm, which I can't stand). Do you recommend them ?
> 
> Also, I was wondering if you had tips to help recognize the different cases ? How many sides do you need to look at ?


I'd recommend algdb.net. There are several different algorithms for every case to choose from. Try many of them and find the ones you like the most. I got my algs from there, but mostly I ended up picking the same algs that are on badmephisto's cheat sheet. It seems I ended up using different algs than badmephisto's for one of the R perms, F perm and a couple of G perms.

In theory it's possible to recognize PLL from any 2 sides. I can't.  I can recognize most of them from 2 sides, as long as I'm looking at the correct 2 sides. To recognize the ones I mentioned with one side solved, J perms and F perm, you see one solved side, then you need to look at one other side, any other side, to recognize which case it is. For some of the others it's about locating the headlights, then locating a pair and seeing where it is in relation to the headlights. The only cases I can recognize from any 2 sides are the ones used for edge permutation in 2 look OLL, H perm, Z perm and U perms.


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## mark49152 (Jul 24, 2016)

teacher77 said:


> That's 17 (rather hard to remember) moves while using A-perm twice is 18 (easy) moves. How can it be much faster ?


It flows nicely and is all quarter turns apart from the last. The moves are not hard to remember once you see the patterns in them. The R face oscillates up and down and the U/D moves alternate back and forth into it.

The alg I think of as the standard E perm is sometimes called the Rowe E perm after Rowe Hessler who popularised it. It's very similar to the algorithm I gave except it starts with an x rotation and does not have the trailing R2. Personally I prefer to trade the rotation for the move.

I find A perm faster than E perm but I could not do two of them with an AUF faster than an E perm. If two A perms works for you then fair enough, stick with that until the minor speed increase makes it worthwhile changing.


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## One Wheel (Jul 24, 2016)

JanW said:


> I've tried to do this, but I've never been able to figure out how to do it so that it would become "really nice"... I now tried it again and can see the benefit of performing the first D' move with left ring finger. I'll try to get used to that. The last D' move, however, seems to be perfect to execute with right ring finger...


How does that work? When I try that my right ring finger is out of position from the last R'. I might be doing my R moves all wrong, I suppose.


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## One Wheel (Jul 24, 2016)

Jason Green said:


> I used pretty much entirely bad mephisto's cheat sheet for OLL and PLL. I think the only one I changed was the N Perm that the guys here told me about.



I also like a different U-perm than badmephisto's, also from Chris Olson: M2 U M U2 M' U M2. Switch out U for U' (push with right index finger) to rotate the other way. It just flows very nicely, and I could never do the R U one without a regrip, although I use it for bigger cubes (5+)


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## JanW (Jul 24, 2016)

One Wheel said:


> How does that work? When I try that my right ring finger is out of position from the last R'. I might be doing my R moves all wrong, I suppose.


Or then I am doing my R moves wrong... I tried gripping R layer differently, in such a way that I can't do D' moves with right ring finger, and now it feels a lot more stable. I must try this a bit more, I think it can be faster. Thanks!

Edit: Yup, I was doing the R moves wrong. Tried the new version about 20 times and it's already faster than my old way of doing it.


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## newtonbase (Jul 24, 2016)

One Wheel said:


> I also like a different U-perm than badmephisto's, also from Chris Olson: M2 U M U2 M' U M2. Switch out U for U' (push with right index finger) to rotate the other way. It just flows very nicely, and I could never do the R U one without a regrip, although I use it for bigger cubes (5+)


I use a similar U perm when the bar is at the front so it's M2 U M' U2 M U M2 and the usual R U one when it's at the back. I worked it out from a blindsolving comm but then found out it was already well known.


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## newtonbase (Jul 24, 2016)

Anyway, I came here to say that I tried a rare timed 3BLD solve tonight. Thought I'd blast it to see what sort of time I could potentially get without worrying about accuracy. Good news was that I was only a twisted corner off. Bad news was that it was only marginally quicker than my sole official solve despite an easy scramble and nearly 3 months more practice. I have 6 days to fix this. PBs are going to be scarce in Macclesfield.


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## mark49152 (Jul 25, 2016)

Mark, what's your split of memo versus execution?


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## newtonbase (Jul 25, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> Mark, what's your split of memo versus execution?


I have no idea. The opportunity for timed solves is so hard to come by that I've never looked at splits. If I get a chance I'll have a look at the videos from North London


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## teacher77 (Jul 25, 2016)

h2f said:


> I think badmephisto's is a standard alg. It's very fast and when you know standard OLLs you can see that it's made of 2 OLL's.



I just noticed that badphemisto actually has several E-perm algs.

On his "2-look PLL cheatsheet", it says x' [ ( R U' R') D ( R U R') ] u 2 [ ( R' U R ) D ( R' U' R ) ].

THAT's the one I can't stand.

On some youtube video, I found this one : z U2 R2 F (R U R' U')3 F' R2 U2 z'.

THAT's the one that I find slower than two A-perms.

However, on badmephisto's regular PLL page, it says : x' (R U' R') D (R U R') D' (R U R') D (R U' R') D'.

NOW this one is great. MUCH faster than two A-perms. In fact it's nearly as fast as a single A-perm.

A special thanks to @One Wheel for pointing out the existence of cyotheking's video, where he uses this last alg.


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## One Wheel (Jul 25, 2016)

teacher77 said:


> I just noticed that badphemisto actually has several E-perm algs.
> 
> On his "2-look PLL cheatsheet", it says x' [ ( R U' R') D ( R U R') ] u 2 [ ( R' U R ) D ( R' U' R ) ].
> 
> ...


Wow, those first two really are bad. I also figured out another one by replacing cube rotations with wide turns in another existing alg. I don't remember the whole thing, but it started out with Rw U R' U'. Once I figured out the left ring finger thing that last one is good enough for me.


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## mark49152 (Jul 25, 2016)

teacher77 said:


> NOW this one is great. MUCH faster than two A-perms. In fact it's nearly as fast as a single A-perm


That is the Rowe E perm.



newtonbase said:


> I have no idea. The opportunity for timed solves is so hard to come by that I've never looked at splits. If I get a chance I'll have a look at the videos from North London


Definitely recommended. Memo is as significant as execution time and getting faster at 3BLD demands training your memo to be fast. Try to rush memo and you'll see an instant dramatic drop in your times (although maybe accuracy too ).

FYI, when I was about 3:30 I measured splits and found my memo took about two-thirds of the solve. That's a looong time. Plus pauses in execution due to memo being weak. So I worked on it separately and made rapid improvements, and that's really the main thing I did to get sub-2. Now my splits are about 40 secs/50 secs and I do more memo than execution training. I can show you my memo training next weekend if you're interested.

Fast solvers spend about one third on memo. I have a long way to go before I can memo in 7 seconds like Kaijun Lin though .


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## h2f (Jul 25, 2016)

Yes, memo is the part of bld solving which is much more important than execution. I mean - one's time are up of one's memo more than up of execution. 

@teacher77 If you look at regular Eperm you can see that it's made of 2 OLLs:
x' (R U' R') D (R U R') D' (R U R') D (R U' R') D'.
The first part is the first OLL: x' (R U' R') D (R U R') D'. And it's pure comm. Do it twice and you will see tha case it solves.
Second part is the second OLL x' (R U R') D (R U' R') D'. Again pure comm and done twice prepares the case it solves. Now you know Eperm and two OLL's.


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## teacher77 (Jul 25, 2016)

@teacher77 If you look at regular Eperm you can see that it's made of 2 OLLs:
x' (R U' R') D (R U R') D' (R U R') D (R U' R') D'.
The first part is the first OLL: x' (R U' R') D (R U R') D'. And it's pure comm. Do it twice and you will see tha case it solves.
Second part is the second OLL x' (R U R') D (R U' R') D'. Again pure comm and done twice prepares the case it solves. Now you know Eperm and two OLL's.[/QUOTE]

Oh thanks ! But does are two of the 2-look OLLs so I knew those cases already. Nice to know a new alg to do them though !


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## teacher77 (Jul 25, 2016)

At least, here's a vid of one of my solves. The angle isn't great but that's what I could manage with a simple cell phone. I hope it will be useful for a critique :

(oh : 0-0:19 is the shuffle, then 0:19-0:33 is the inspection)






Thanks !


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## JohnnyReggae (Jul 25, 2016)

JohnnyReggae said:


> Ok ... started looking more proactively at Hoya. Have done a few slow solves just trying to get my head around what I can and can't move particularly when doing the Hoya cross. Going to spend some more time later today doing more solves. Hopefully I can start speeding up at a point to really put it to the test.


Did some timed solves last night using Hoya. After an ao12 my average was around 15 seconds slower using Hoya which i suppose is not bad. Hoya does seem shorter and I'm always surprised when I get to the L8E's. Going to pres on and see if I can get my times lower.



newtonbase said:


> I'm only now getting to my Yau times in Hoya after several weeks but I don't practice much. I did look to go back to Yau but realised that I really don't like it as much. Trying to find 2 cross edges at a time rather than one was the deciding factor. I'd hoped to get to cut off times by the competition next weekend but that's not going to happen.


I did a few Yau solves after doing some Hoya. The Yau solves were faster but I knew that would happen anyway as I have that process down and know what to look for. With Hoya I can see the potential to get faster. For now I am going to stick with it and see how it goes.



teacher77 said:


> Thanks, this is great advice ! What source are you using for algs ? I use the ones on badmephisto's site (except the Eperm, which I can't stand). Do you recommend them ?


The best place to look for algs is http://algdb.net/ . It has probably been mentioned already but Cyotheking has some some cool video tutorials on the PLL's which is well worth checking out.



Jason Green said:


> I used pretty much entirely bad mephisto's cheat sheet for OLL and PLL. I think the only one I changed was the N Perm that the guys here told me about.


I also used Badmephisto's alg sheets when initially learning PLL's. I've since changed some of the algs he uses to something more comfortable for me. When it came to OLL's I made my own spreadsheets with the algs as a way to learn the algs. Splitting them up in similar shapes. That spreadsheet has grown to include all the algs I use including all the OH algs some of which I still need to learn.


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## h2f (Jul 25, 2016)

teacher77 said:


> Oh thanks ! But does are two of the 2-look OLLs so I knew those cases already. Nice to know a new alg to do them though !



I thought so, you know other algs. 

Nice solve. I think the first thing you need to improve is the cross on the bottom. When you used to you will see significant improvement. Your f2l at this stage seems decent as well as 4 look LL. I can see the OLL I mentioned on the video - that's the one I thought you use.


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## JanW (Jul 25, 2016)

Nice solve @teacher77! I agree with h2f, solving the cross at the bottom might be more difficult at first, but it will pay off.

You take some time recognizing the U perm at the end. First you AUF to have the bar at the back, then look at all 4 sides. U perm is best recognized if you think in terms of opposite colors. When you do the last moves of the A perm, you see a green bar on the left and red orange on the front. Since red and orange are opposite colors, you know the edge has to go to the opposite side of the cube -> it's a clockwise U perm. If you have a bar on the left and two non opposite colors on the front, you know the edge from the front has to go to the right -> it's a counterclockwise U perm. With bar on the right it's the other way around, opposite in front -> counterclockwise, non opposite in front -> clockwise. Try to get used to determining the direction of the U perm just by looking at one side in addition to the bar.


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## h2f (Jul 25, 2016)

@teacher77 

BTW - 40 seconds averages after almost 3 months of cubing is a very good result. I was 40 after a half of year or something.


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## newtonbase (Jul 25, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> That is the Rowe E perm.
> 
> 
> Definitely recommended. Memo is as significant as execution time and getting faster at 3BLD demands training your memo to be fast. Try to rush memo and you'll see an instant dramatic drop in your times (although maybe accuracy too ).
> ...



I've just had a go at timed, fast solves with splits. 
1. Kept making errors. Gave up after 4 mins. Realised I had wrong orientation. Restarted with 2:06 memo. Quit one pair into solve as memo had gone. 
2. Painful memo. Forgot to time split but at least 4 mins. Awful solve out by 5 edges and an F2. 5:13.
3. 1:41 memo. Lost track of memo halfway through edges. 

Seems my memo may need a little work. 

I'll take you up on your offer at the weekend @mark49152


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## Logiqx (Jul 25, 2016)

teacher77 said:


> Which alg do you call the "standard" alg for Eperm ?



Hello. I recorded my execution of the standard E-perm a few weeks ago. It was ~1.2s even with my "older cuber" fingers:






Edit: This is the "standard" alg popularised by Rowe Hessler and what you'll see in Chris Olson's video.


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## newtonbase (Jul 25, 2016)

How's this for a 3x3 AO5? 

Number of Solves: 5
Mean: 48.019
Best: 25.935
Worst: 1:30.693
Average: 41.155
Last Ao5: 41.155
Best Ao5: 41.155
1. (25.935)
25/07/2016 13:53:40
L2 F' L2 B U2 L2 R2 B R2 F2 R D2 U2 L B' D' B U R2 B'
2. 1:01.717
25/07/2016 13:55:02
F' D R' U' B' R' U R L' U2 B' L2 U2 F2 R2 D2 B' L2 B' L2
3. 28.351
25/07/2016 13:55:57
L2 D' F U' B L' D2 L2 B R' U2 R2 U F2 R2 D L2 U' F2 L2 D'
4. (1:30.693)
25/07/2016 13:57:55
F2 R' U2 L' U' L2 U2 F L' U D' B2 U2 L D2 F2 L2 B2 R B2 L'
5. 33.398
25/07/2016 13:59:08
D2 F' D2 B R2 B D2 U2 F D2 R U' B2 D R' U' F2 L D' U'
I had the same G perm 4 times in a row (twice in the 1:30 solve). Got it right the first 2 times. 
Don't think my head is in the right place today.


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## mafergut (Jul 25, 2016)

After 4-5 days off the forum and off cubing here I come again 
Definitely liking the SS Aurora Mega more and more. It's like I wanted a modded SS to feel but without having to mod it  Qiyi Galaxy off my "to buy" list almost surely... for now 

Got a nice PB single and Ao5:
Single: 2:43.61, finally sub-3 min! My old PB was 3:02.xx
Ao5: 3:13.43, old one was 3:32.xx

This was after disappointing Ao5 for the weekly comp that, at least, served as warmup 

Lots of activity as always during the days I've been off. Nice E-perm video Michael @Logiqx and welcome @teacher77, you will improve soon if you keep practising. Not much else to recommend to what has already been said by others. Definitely change to cross on bottom, try to plan the whole cross (or at least 3 edges) during inspection and try to avoid cube rotations during F2L if possible. Practise slow untimed solves until you can intuitively do most F2L insertion cases not only on the front slots but also on the back ones and, at least as soon as you are inserting one pair start looking for the next one (later on you will be able to do it during the whole pairing-insertion phase).


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## JanW (Jul 25, 2016)

First mbld attempt in about a week, 2/3. However, time was 13.56 (8min memo, sub 6 execution) which is about twice as fast as my attempts last week. I've done >50 single bld solves since my last mbld attempt, which clearly payed off.

My fastest 3bld success last week was 2.53. That's still quite a lot slower than my pb from last fall. Back then I was doing memo sub 1 min, now my fastest memo was about 1:20. I really need to finish and learn my word list. I spend most of memo time trying to come up with words.


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## newtonbase (Jul 25, 2016)

A few more 3BLD attempts has shown that I'm 2 parts memo to one part execution.


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## mark49152 (Jul 26, 2016)

JanW said:


> I really need to finish and learn my word list. I spend most of memo time trying to come up with words.


Anki is good for that... once you have a list.



newtonbase said:


> A few more 3BLD attempts has shown that I'm 2 parts memo to one part execution.


That's good news in a way, as it means you can improve your times easily with a bit of work on your memo .


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## JanW (Jul 26, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> Anki is good for that... once you have a list.


Thanks, hadn't heard about that software. Looks like a great tool!


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## JohnnyReggae (Jul 26, 2016)

Not sure if this has been posted in this thread, but I have found this app a huge help with blind training ... https://www.speedsolving.com/forum/threads/bldtrainer-new-application-for-practicing-3-cycles.61303/

My memo still sucks and have started to establish a proper letter pair word list.


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## JanW (Jul 26, 2016)

JohnnyReggae said:


> Not sure if this has been posted in this thread, but I have found this app a huge help with blind training ... https://www.speedsolving.com/forum/threads/bldtrainer-new-application-for-practicing-3-cycles.61303/


Thanks, I'm glad you enjoy my app!  And glad to hear it is being used. I should practice with it more myself as well.


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## h2f (Jul 26, 2016)

JohnnyReggae said:


> Not sure if this has been posted in this thread, but I have found this app a huge help with blind training ... https://www.speedsolving.com/forum/threads/bldtrainer-new-application-for-practicing-3-cycles.61303/
> 
> My memo still sucks and have started to establish a proper letter pair word list.



Yes it was mentioned. I'm big fun of this tool, @JanW.


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## h2f (Jul 26, 2016)

BTW I've just ordered new minx from MFG - stickerless with inner hollows (I dont know how to name it).


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## mark49152 (Jul 26, 2016)

My 3 year old learned to blindsolve at the weekend. It works like this. She scrambles the cube, puts on the blindfold, and peeks underneath while dad solves the cube. It causes much excitement .


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## mafergut (Jul 26, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> My 3 year old learned to blindsolve at the weekend. It works like this. She scrambles the cube, puts on the blindfold, and peeks underneath while dad solves the cube. It causes much excitement .


I almost had a heart attack at the first sentence


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## newtonbase (Jul 26, 2016)

I have plans for my 2 year old to learn to solve but yesterday he threw a Duplo plane into the air expecting it to fly. I'll wait a bit.


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## MarcelP (Jul 27, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> My 3 year old learned to blindsolve at the weekend. It works like this. She scrambles the cube, puts on the blindfold, and peeks underneath while dad solves the cube. It causes much excitement .


LOL, that should be an official event like that!


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## MarcelP (Jul 27, 2016)

teacher77 said:


> At least, here's a vid of one of my solves. The angle isn't great but that's what I could manage with a simple cell phone. I hope it will be useful for a critique :
> 
> (oh : 0-0:19 is the shuffle, then 0:19-0:33 is the inspection)
> 
> ...


Nice! Speed and recognition will come with time. You're turns are very smooth allready. One big tip, CROSS ON BOTTOM. It gives you a look into your first pair.


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## Selkie (Jul 27, 2016)

@teacher77 - Welcome to the thread. As other have said before it is the right place to be and I hope you gain as much motivation and improvement from discussions as most do 

4x4 Race Thread: Haha, are we still racing to sub 1 minute @mark49152 et al? 

Average of 50 with PB for single, first ever sub 1 Ao5, PB Ao12 and Sub 1:05 Ao50. Do not know where the improvement is coming from though I guess the mini break did me good but I am also on a diet and have lost nearly 30lb in the last month or so and feeling a lot healthier. Instead of being a 46 year old feeling 56 I might just be getting to the stage of feeling 45 

Single: 48.39 (I screamed!!)
Ao5: 59.22 (solves 24-28)
Ao12: 1:01.42 (17-28)
Ao50: 1:04.16
Fastest Ever Double Parity: 54.90



Spoiler



Session average: 1:04.16
1. 1:13.10 R' U' D' r' B' r' B U' u' F' r' f2 L R2 u R' F' R D' B D' f L2 D r2 D' L' r2 D2 U' u2 B U D F2 u D2 U' B2 u'
2. 1:08.78 r U F f U' F2 L' f' L' D r f' D2 L B2 L' R r' D' u2 B' u' L B' F' D B' F2 r' D2 r' D' F' U R L2 B L U' R'
3. (54.90) B2 R' r' L2 f2 U2 F2 D2 U R' u2 B' D2 f' U' R D f r D B2 D f u R2 f L r2 R' D' u' R2 L2 B u' f2 L2 u2 B U2
4. 1:03.63 R' B' R' B f F r2 R' u' r B2 U f D' L r2 u2 B F u2 D2 L2 D L f2 L2 U' f2 F2 u f2 D' r u r L' R2 f D' f'
5. 1:04.89 B2 f R f2 R L2 D2 u' r D2 L U2 L' u2 D F L2 F u F' D r' R2 D R r2 L u2 R r' F2 B' U2 D2 R' u F' f2 L' D2
6. 1:02.70 L2 f u' F L2 B2 u' r' F2 B R' r F' f L' U2 f2 D' U' f2 u' f U2 F2 B L2 D2 r2 f2 R' f R2 U2 D R' r' F' D' u R'
7. (56.86) U' f2 B u U' F2 B2 L2 r2 B u r2 u f2 F r R' F2 U D2 f2 D f2 u2 F R B2 L f' U r2 D' F' D u2 f2 R' F' L2 R
8. (1:22.57) B2 R D u r D2 F2 r R' U' L D' F' U L2 u2 R' L' r2 D B2 r2 u' D2 f' B2 U2 F' r' L F2 U r f' r B U' D R' L2
9. 1:04.49 u2 L' U' f2 r2 F' L' f r' F R' L u L' R' f' F' R' L2 u2 F u2 U' B D2 F u2 R' u2 R2 r2 u U' F' r' f' U2 F' U2 r
10. 1:08.68 R' r' f2 u2 L U u' D L' U f u2 D L B2 r2 u2 F2 r F' u U B R2 B2 D U R2 u f U2 D R r F' L2 r' F' U F2
11. 1:01.04 L B u D2 R B' r2 U2 r F2 f' R2 B r f' F2 U2 B2 f' F2 u L f r u' f' L R' U2 u2 r B f r L F u R' L' f
12. 1:07.61 u R r2 D' f' r L' U2 R r' u' R2 B' D2 r' R U' u f U' D' F f' D' u2 L' D r' L2 R2 B U' D2 f2 D F2 U2 B L D2
13. 1:14.07 f2 D' r u' f F' D u' R F' u' F D' u' B2 F2 U2 B2 R U2 f' L' r' f2 F U' f2 B' U' f' u' r U B' F' L2 R2 r' u' B
14. 1:08.00 B' R2 f' F2 B L D' r2 f F' r L' B u' B D' U r L2 f2 r2 u B' f' U' u F U2 F' r f2 r2 u2 f L' B u2 F' r' f
15. 1:01.11 F U' f' U B2 U r D' L' r' D' r2 F2 f' B' U' u B' R' L' B2 R2 r' U2 B2 R2 D f' r2 u' D2 L R' U2 F f2 B' L' U2 u
16. 1:01.68 r R U F L2 F U' L' U u B' f' r2 R' B L U2 B' U' f F u2 B2 U B' u U F2 L' D' r F2 u2 B2 u' r B2 u' L' f
17. 59.02 D u L R' f D2 L f' R L F2 R' F L2 F D2 r R' u2 R u B2 F2 U F f' r2 B u U2 f2 F2 L2 u F2 D f' L' R2 D
18. 59.27 L U' B2 r f D B f2 u2 L' u L2 R f' u' L2 F2 B' f' D2 U' B' U' B' u2 r2 u' B' D2 r2 F L2 f' U2 D2 r2 L D' L2 f'
19. 1:04.29 B' F U2 D r R2 u D F f u' D' U2 r' u2 R r F' U2 L2 D2 L2 D2 R2 F' D' L2 F2 L' R U' D' r' R L' u' f B r B
20. 1:01.71 r' f2 B' R r L F D' F f2 U2 R' D2 L2 D2 B U f D2 r D2 F' f U u R2 U F B' R' F f R U R' D2 U2 B u2 L
21. 1:06.59 F2 B2 r' F' u2 f' r f' R' u2 f2 U' f' r' F' r' f L U' B' L D2 F' B2 L2 r' R2 u2 r B R' U' D2 f' R2 D2 r2 U' u B'
22. 1:04.73 U r' f2 R2 F' u2 D2 R L2 F' R f2 D u2 L U R2 D2 F' L2 B2 f2 F2 U B' L' B' R2 L r2 U u2 F2 u r L2 F2 u' U D
23. 1:07.85 F U' L2 D L r2 R' B2 R' D f2 U2 D u' L2 U2 B' U r2 D2 U' F R2 u2 F2 r' F' f' B' D2 u2 R2 r2 F' U2 L2 U' F L2 D2
24. 1:00.92 F2 f r' F2 u2 B r2 f' D2 f2 D2 f D2 B2 f2 U L2 U' u' F D2 f' B' D u2 L' f2 L' B2 u' F2 R2 f2 r L' B2 R D f' F
25. 1:00.46 u2 D2 f2 F2 r2 B U' F' u L2 U2 B2 u f' u2 r2 u' F f u' B U2 R2 D2 F u2 D2 R L2 F' U2 F' u f U' f' R2 L D B'
26. 58.11 f2 F2 L U' D' F2 r2 U F2 u2 D2 F L2 F2 r2 R' L2 F' U' R' D' B2 L u2 L B F R r2 u B' U F' D' L2 B' D r' R2 U
27. 59.09 f R' u2 f2 R' U r' R2 D U f2 u2 F u f2 R B' L u' R D F f' r' L2 D2 U' R2 F r2 B' r U2 r U' r L' U F' R
28. (48.39) f' L' F' u L R r F2 f r2 f2 F' D R L U' r L' f R2 B' F r2 D2 B R u D2 L' B2 D u2 R2 L B u2 U L B' D'
29. 1:06.32 R2 F' r' D r' L2 u' F' L u r f2 D2 u' L D' f U' u2 F2 f2 u B' U2 R' r2 F2 U2 u2 F' r F' D2 U2 u' r' F L2 U2 L'
30. 1:01.08 r' U F f U B2 U' r2 f F' L u' r' R' B' f2 u2 F' f' L2 D' R f' L2 f L2 D L2 D' u2 r' L2 B2 r' f' u R' L2 D B2
31. (1:14.19) D u F2 f u2 U' f2 L' r2 D2 L' R' B' D' F2 U' R2 r F' U F' R2 F' L' f' u' L u F2 L F' D2 L u2 R' F f' U R' L'
32. (1:18.34) f2 L F' f' D2 L U2 R r' U2 B2 R r' F' R' B' D' u r D' F2 L2 D f' u' U2 R' r' D f' r2 D2 L F2 u F' U2 F f R
33. 1:06.86 U2 D' B' D' B U2 F R L2 B' L r2 B2 U F' L' U' D' B2 u' r u f B' R f u2 F R2 F' U2 u' r2 R D2 F' U L2 f U2
34. 1:02.92 R' D2 r2 R2 u2 f r2 L D u' F2 B2 R' F2 r u' F R2 U' B2 u f2 R D' L2 f2 D R2 B' u2 r L u L' R u2 R' B2 r' R2
35. 1:07.52 f' L' f' u2 r' f2 u D R U r2 B2 R' D' B2 F' R2 B' r2 R2 L2 D' L' f2 R2 U' D' L2 u B2 u2 U f' R' r2 L' F2 u' D' L'
36. 1:03.26 D U2 F2 R' L' F2 B L' B L' R' B2 f2 u R2 L r2 D u f2 r' U f2 r2 f2 u B2 R' B U' u D2 f' D R D2 U2 r2 F R2
37. 1:05.30 r' D' F2 B2 R r2 u2 D2 B' R2 L2 F' f' B2 u2 D' L D u' U2 R r2 B r2 U' D L' R' D F' f' U2 D u2 F' r2 F B2 D f
38. 1:08.89 r u F' r' f D f' r u2 R D' F' B' r2 F D B2 U' D2 R' u r' L F2 B' D' B2 L F2 U F f2 R2 u' B2 L2 F2 D' L2 R
39. 1:03.61 r2 D' B f' F' u2 F2 R' B F D2 r' L R2 U2 u2 L' U2 r2 R' f F U R B2 F2 u B D F' D2 R' U L B' D R2 D2 U F2
40. 58.44 U' B' r' u B' f2 F2 r L D' L2 U' D' u2 F2 r' R F2 L U' f2 u' F' f D2 r2 f r U F2 D2 u U r2 R2 L U' B U' r2
41. 1:09.93 D' f' B U' F' B u2 B2 R B L2 D2 B2 u2 B R2 D2 r' f u2 F2 f r' f R' r' D2 r' D' F2 L' r' f F' u' D2 B2 u2 B2 u
42. 57.89 f2 R' U2 L2 F' B' R2 F B2 U2 f2 U' u L2 r2 u' D f2 R2 D' U2 u' r2 u2 f' u2 f' B U L' f F' U R B L B f' L' D2
43. 1:09.42 R2 r2 L u' D L' r R2 D' R L u U2 L2 U' D' F2 L2 U' L' B' u2 F' U' u2 B U' D u F2 L u2 r2 L2 D' L' R2 r' u U'
44. 1:05.57 D r2 L R2 B' u r2 U B' F2 U' L' f u' U' R D' r f2 u' r2 B f2 U2 R' F' B r' f' F U2 L' R' D B u2 U' R' u' F'
45. 59.41 F2 R2 f R u' F' u' f2 U2 r' L2 f2 D2 f2 U2 B U F' L' u' L' U' L2 r2 F' u' F' D L' f B2 r2 D2 f' U2 u' B D F D2
46. 1:03.71 u' L' u' D F2 r' D2 L f r R2 L' u2 r' L' U2 r' f' R U B f' F' L R B r R D u' f F2 D R' D L B R' f2 B2
47. 1:04.98 U' D r u L' f R' L B D B2 U R f F' u F2 D u' R' B' D' r2 L D2 F D' u' B' D' U F' B2 u2 f u f' R2 r D2
48. 57.23 L' D' R r2 L' u B' u' B' R' r' D R' B2 R' U B L2 F r f' r2 D2 R' F D' r' F' r U' D F D u L u r U' D2 u
49. 1:06.26 U2 u' r B F' r F2 B L2 D' f F2 L2 f r' u D' R u' D' f2 B' L2 F' U2 L' F2 r2 D U' F' B2 L' D2 L2 u L2 F2 u' D'
50. 1:02.55 F U f' L B' F u2 L' u2 F U' B' U' R B F' D L' U' R2 D' R' D2 F2 U u2 L2 u F' u f2 B' r U' r F U f2 r' U'


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## mafergut (Jul 27, 2016)

Wow, Cris @Selkie those are great times!!!!
I'm still on the sub 1:15 target


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## mark49152 (Jul 27, 2016)

Selkie said:


> 4x4 Race Thread: Haha, are we still racing to sub 1 minute @mark49152 et al?


I'm still shooting for that but you are well ahead. Congrats on the PBs. I'm at about 1:07-8 with a 1:01 ao5, I think. Improving slowly. I might have a chance if you take another year off 

Congrats on the weight loss too


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## One Wheel (Jul 27, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> My 3 year old learned to blindsolve at the weekend. It works like this. She scrambles the cube, puts on the blindfold, and peeks underneath while dad solves the cube. It causes much excitement .



My sister recently said (I paraphrase):
It's often said that kids are important because they are the future: they'll be adults someday. The fact of the matter is that kids are important _right now _and adults are mostly important because we were kids once.


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## JohnnyReggae (Jul 27, 2016)

@Selkie ... wow ... awesome average and single ... I'm well impressed. I'm still struggling around the 1:30 mark ... Not sure how I'm going to get my times down, but I'll keep persevering


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## earth2dan (Jul 27, 2016)

Selkie said:


> Average of 50 with PB for single, first ever sub 1 Ao5, PB Ao12 and Sub 1:05 Ao50. Do not know where the improvement is coming from though I guess the mini break did me good but I am also on a diet and have lost nearly 30lb in the last month or so and feeling a lot healthier. Instead of being a 46 year old feeling 56 I might just be getting to the stage of feeling 45



Great times @Selkie! And more importantly, great job on the lifestyle changes! I made a similar change a few years ago and it has a huge impact on your overall well being. I'd say that's at least a small factor in the better times. Keep it up, and don't let it go once you get to where you want to be.


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## JanW (Jul 27, 2016)

cubezz gets faster and faster with every order. Today I received some cubes I ordered 8 days ago!

Not sure what to think about the Thunderclap v2. It feels quite nice once I eventually got it somewhat properly tensioned, but it's still nowhere close to the Yuexiao or GTS in my opinion. It's also the loudest cube I have. Very noisy. Setting it up is unnecessarily complicated with those huge center caps.

The Kung Fu Qinghong has some potential. It's a bit catchy, but very fast for a <5$ cube. I need to try this out more thoroughly, it has potential to become my choice for mbld.

The Yuxin Fire turned out to be the same that I already had. I thought my Yuxin was another model. Oh well, now I have two. It's not as fast as the Qinghong, but more stable and easy to perform accurately with. Those qualities could also end up making this my choice for mbld.


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## Selkie (Jul 27, 2016)

Thanks for all the kind replies and I have to confess the weight loss is like lots of PBs coming one after the other  My weight has fluctuated a lot over the years and since my wife and I work long hours it is so easy to eat takeaways and fast food but got to the stage where I was feeling very uncomfortable with my weight and I would like to get back to a lighter weight and stay there.

@mark49152 , I was chatting online to Dan Sheppard the other day and believe there may be a comp first weekend in October. If there is I will be there at least on the Sunday 

I am wondering what recent cubes out are any good. I have not done an order in over 2 months and wondered what goodies I have missed apart from the Yuxin 6x6


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## newtonbase (Jul 27, 2016)

World Championships are in Paris next July. Who's going?


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## mark49152 (Jul 27, 2016)

Selkie said:


> @mark49152 , I was chatting online to Dan Sheppard the other day and believe there may be a comp first weekend in October. If there is I will be there at least on the Sunday


Awesome, any indication of location?



newtonbase said:


> World Championships are in Paris next July. Who's going?


I might do, it depends on the cuts. I wouldn't have gone to Euros with no chance of making 4x4 or 5x5 averages.


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## muchacho (Jul 27, 2016)

25.621 OH single

Wow congrats @Selkie, 30 lbs in one month or so? awesome (but almost insane)... ok, I'm trying too, I need to lose 45-50 lbs (but 10 lbs/month would be too good for me).


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## mafergut (Jul 27, 2016)

muchacho said:


> 25.621 OH single
> 
> Wow congrats @Selkie, 30 lbs in one month or so? awesome (but almost insane)... ok, I'm trying too, I need to lose 45-50 lbs (but 10 lbs/month would be too good for me).


That's a great single! Congratulations! I will have to practice OH seriously again but I don't think I can get to those times with current move count. I will have to either learn 1L OLL, COLL or change to Roux. [emoji2] 

Sent from my Nexus 4 with Tapatalk


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## newtonbase (Jul 27, 2016)

Im


mark49152 said:


> Awesome, any indication of location?
> 
> 
> I might do, it depends on the cuts. I wouldn't have gone to Euros with no chance of making 4x4 or 5x5 averages.


I'm well practiced at missing cuts so that's not a problem but my wife has informed me that we're in Florida that month so I may not get there. 
Well done @Selkie. Losing weight can be tough. Especially as get older.


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## Logiqx (Jul 27, 2016)

Selkie said:


> I was chatting online to Dan Sheppard the other day and believe there may be a comp first weekend in October. If there is I will be there at least on the Sunday



Ah... possibly a weekend I can make this year. I wonder where it is going to be held?



newtonbase said:


> World Championships are in Paris next July. Who's going?



Maybe. I think it would be quite fun to attend a WC competition.



mafergut said:


> That's a great single! Congratulations! I will have to practice OH seriously again but I don't think I can get to those times with current move count. I will have to either learn 1L OLL, COLL or change to Roux. [emoji2]



1L OLL is definitely worth the effort for OH and <50% the effort of learning it for 2H. Just look at how your 2H algs work in terms of triggers or F2L pairs that can be tracked then you'll be able to learn half of the OLLs without much effort. There are only about a dozen OLLs which are tricky to re-learn and be sure to check Antoin Cantin's alg page for each case. Don't learn anything with more than two F moves (i.e. F + F' is generally fine but only once during an alg).

COLL is nice for OH but it should be regarded as an extension once you already know full OLL+PLL.

Updates from me:

- Last couple of days, I've finally pulled my finger out and learnt the remaining 2H algs for COLL. Until now I was using the OH algs (Sune + Niklas combos) for some of the Pi / H cases where I was too lazy to learn the RUF algs.
- Last couple of evenings on the train home were quite amusing. Yesterday a lady sat down opposite with her two young daughters (I guess 2yrs + 4yrs). The elder girl was leaning over my knee watching me solve repeating phrases like "cool", "look mum, he's solved it again", "how does he do that" and "can I have one mummy?" followed by her little sister asking "can I have one as well?" and her mum agreeing. I wonder if they got their wish today, lol.
- Tonight was a lady with some boys around 7-8 and after watching a 17s solve challenged me to solve it in 15 seconds. I guess it's a good way to replicate competition nerves... a dozen or so eyes watching on a busy train! I failed her friendly challenge... 18s or so but it wasn't bad considering the circumstances! The boys actually knew a little about the cube such as doing the sexy move over and over as a "trick" to make it look like you can solve it. I didn't get any practice after that as they were playing with my cube, lol.


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## bubbagrub (Jul 27, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> World Championships are in Paris next July. Who's going?



I'm hoping to go. Should be fun.

On the subject of 4x4, I'm frustratingly close to averaging 1:30. I've had a few ao12s of below 1:30 but I still feel like there's a chance I won't make the (1:30) cut in the competition this coming weekend. @Selkie: very impressive 4x4 times and weight loss. I've also been on a diet recently, and have found that I seem to think about weight changes in the same part of my brain as cubing times...

I'm wondering, Mark and people who are fast at 3BLD, what method do you use for memo? I've been using the rooms method for edges, which is really slow and I just discovered today that if I just make a sentence out of the letters, it takes more effort but I can go much faster.


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## newtonbase (Jul 27, 2016)

I tend to use audio for edges as it's quick. Unfortunately it doesn't stick for long and I can't quite remember enough for a whole cube so I use slower visual memo for corners. Once I have enough solid images stored I intend to use that only. 
Gianfranco Huanqui told me he uses audio corners and visual edges.


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## mark49152 (Jul 27, 2016)

bubbagrub said:


> I'm wondering, Mark and people who are fast at 3BLD, what method do you use for memo? I've been using the rooms method for edges, which is really slow and I just discovered today that if I just make a sentence out of the letters, it takes more effort but I can go much faster.


I memo corners first with images, then edges with audio. I make words of 4 letters each. I have fixed sounds for every letter to eliminate ambiguity.

Then I execute edges before corners. Audio is very short term but as Mark said, it's faster. Some people use audio for corners instead but whatever you do with audio gets executed first.

If I make memo mistakes it's usually mixing up similar sounds like M & N, or forgetting corners entirely. I try to recall my corner scene briefly after the first 4 letter edge word, just to check it has stuck.


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## bubbagrub (Jul 27, 2016)

Ahh... I wonder if I have time to change my approach to 3BLD before the weekend... maybe not, but I like the sound of audio for edges... I'll give it a try on the train tomorrow and see how it goes...


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## h2f (Jul 27, 2016)

@bubbagrub Roman rooms are for bigger cubes or for multi. In 3bld you dont need it.


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## teacher77 (Jul 28, 2016)

Thanks everyone for all your comments on my video. I didn't have to to look into it much but definitly will this weekend. 

In the mean time : how do you add this footer with PBs in all of your messages ?


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## newtonbase (Jul 28, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> I make words of 4 letters each. I have fixed sounds for every letter to eliminate ambiguity.



Are they nonsense words then? 



bubbagrub said:


> Ahh... I wonder if I have time to change my approach to 3BLD before the weekend... maybe not, but I like the sound of audio for edges... I'll give it a try on the train tomorrow and see how it goes...



@DeeDubb has an excellent thread on audio pairs. His system has set sounds for each letter to avoid confusion with other similar ones. So (in my version) c, k, q and x which all could have a k sound are ch, k, th and sh respectively. You won't have it down by the weekend but it's worth a read.

Edit: Here it is https://www.speedsolving.com/forum/...ocus-on-phonetics-rather-than-spelling.51937/


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## Selkie (Jul 28, 2016)

Thank you all for the words of encouragement for the diet. I tend to have quite an obsessive / compulsive personality so once I set my mind on something it is half the battle won. I want to lose another 20-25 pounds and then reassess but very encouraged by progress and wellbeing even at this stage.



newtonbase said:


> World Championships are in Paris next July. Who's going?



I always said when worlds was close enough to warrant going and before I was too old I would make the trip. Not sure I'll make all the average soft cuts but its worth aiming for and at this point in time I am going to say yes, I'll do my very best to make it.



teacher77 said:


> Thanks everyone for all your comments on my video. I didn't have to to look into it much but definitly will this weekend.
> 
> In the mean time : how do you add this footer with PBs in all of your messages ?



Click on your name on the right hand side of the menu bar next to Inbox and Alerts and then click signature 

@Logiqx , Michael. I believe the October comp is proposed for Guildford mate but not confirmed yet


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## mark49152 (Jul 28, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> Are they nonsense words then?


Yes nonsense. Similar idea as DeeDub but my system predated his post. So H is th, Q is sh, X is sk when at the start of a syllable, etc.

Example scramble: HWIL ELJG VBNP

Sounds like: thoo I'll, eel jug, vubnip.

If the words are really nonsensical and awkward, I imagine Worf standing in front of me shouting them in Klingon with exaggerated pronunciation


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## newtonbase (Jul 28, 2016)

Selkie said:


> @Logiqx , Michael. I believe the October comp is proposed for Guildford mate but not confirmed yet


Guildford is good but that weekend sort of clashes with my wedding anniversary like Macclesfield is clashing with my niece being born, ABHC clashes with my wife's birthday and Worlds may clash with our summer holiday. Hopefully they don't choose my daughter's birthday weekend for the UK Championships.


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## newtonbase (Jul 28, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> Yes nonsense. Similar idea as DeeDub but my system predated his post. So H is th, Q is sh, X is sk when at the start of a syllable, etc.
> 
> Example scramble: HWIL ELJG VBNP
> 
> ...


_How ill eel jogs verb nip _for me. My favourite adjustment is ng where h is the 2nd letter.


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## mark49152 (Jul 28, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> _How ill eel jogs verb nip _for me. My favourite adjustment is ng where h is the 2nd letter.


I think the key to it is consistency. Always use the same sounds even if a word offers a more natural pronunciation. So HWIL looks more naturally like huh-will, but for me H is always th, and vowels are always long so I is eye. W is a vowel when it comes second. Short vowel sounds are only used to separate consonants. Etc.

I could write up my scheme if anyone's interested.


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## newtonbase (Jul 28, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> I think the key to it is consistency. Always use the same sounds even if a word offers a more natural pronunciation. So HWIL looks more naturally like huh-will, but for me H is always th, and vowels are always long so I is eye. W is a vowel when it comes second. Short vowel sounds are only used to separate consonants. Etc.
> 
> I could write up my scheme if anyone's interested.


Vowels certainly are tricky. For me O is oh, U is oo and W is ow but it's still easy to confuse them. XO and XW could both end up as Show so I have to be careful. I realised that my daughter uses XO as kiss cuddle when writing greetings cards so I'll use that in visual and try to adapt it for audio (although KS is already Kiss). 
I'm sure I'd learn from your system if you wrote it up @mark49152


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## mark49152 (Jul 28, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> Vowels certainly are tricky. For me O is oh, U is oo and W is ow but it's still easy to confuse them. XO and XW could both end up as Show so I have to be careful. I realised that my daughter uses XO as kiss cuddle when writing greetings cards so I'll use that in visual and try to adapt it for audio (although KS is already Kiss).
> I'm sure I'd learn from your system if you wrote it up @mark49152


For me X is ks at the end and sk at the start. So XO is skoh, XW is skoo, XU is like a long skuh or sker. For images, XO is tictactoe


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## h2f (Jul 28, 2016)

I use a system of pronunciation in letter pairs. In this aspect Polish is easier than English cause many letters are the same in writing and pronunciation. For example pair NA is eN-A, ZB - Zet-Be, etc. In Polish H is thougher than in English and more similiar to K so there's no prolbem with it. There's no words with X so I dont use it. Same Q. 

And some other news - for last 2 weeks I do 10 to 20 sq1 solves per day. I've learnt advanced method from kungfumanchu page, but advanced means algs: 2 parities, 2 orientation edges, 8 perumtation corners. To permute edges I use: 1 specific algs for 2 adjcent edges top and 2 down; Ua and Ub perms for top and down - 4 algs; same for Z and H - 4 algs. But Z and H are the same like in 3x3. Today I've broken 1 min avg of 50. Sq1 is strongly intuitive puzzle. This means that I knew only 1 case for solving shape, next I've learnt the second; others I can figure out by myself and it's only matter of practice. Of course there are solves I do shape in 30 seconds or slower but on the other hands there are cases that I can figure out in preinspection and I dont mean few obvious ones.


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## teacher77 (Jul 28, 2016)

Selkie said:


> Click on your name on the right hand side of the menu bar next to Inbox and Alerts and then click signature



Oh like this ? Thanks


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## JanW (Jul 28, 2016)

I have a problem picking a language for memo. I grew up completely bilingual. I speak Swedish with my family, Finnish with most of my friends and out on town, both at native level. English is a very strong third language, which has been the main language for work related communications the past 10 years, and of course the main language for everything cubing related I've ever read/watched.

So far I haven't completed any full word list, but make up sentences/images for corners on the fly. I've noticed the majority of words I pick are in English, with some Swedish and Finnish mixed in as well. With three very different languages, some letter pairs will work better in one language than in others. I've been working on a word list, but can't decide what to do about this. Somehow it feels that mixing languages is not a very good idea. Anyone else mix languages? Do you use any English words in addition to Polish @h2f?


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## mafergut (Jul 28, 2016)

JanW said:


> I have a problem picking a language for memo. I grew up completely bilingual. I speak Swedish with my family, Finnish with most of my friends and out on town, both at native level. English is a very strong third language, which has been the main language for work related communications the past 10 years, and of course the main language for everything cubing related I've ever read/watched.
> 
> So far I haven't completed any full word list, but make up sentences/images for corners on the fly. I've noticed the majority of words I pick are in English, with some Swedish and Finnish mixed in as well. With three very different languages, some letter pairs will work better in one language than in others. I've been working on a word list, but can't decide what to do about this. Somehow it feels that mixing languages is not a very good idea. Anyone else mix languages? Do you use any English words in addition to Polish @h2f?


I cannot be considered in any way as an experienced BLD solver but I also mix Spanish and English and, as I decided to use Speffz lettering scheme, I find some letter pairs to be much easier to find words / images for in English but I'm not sure either if this is a good idea or not.


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## h2f (Jul 28, 2016)

@JanW I've never tried to mix languages so I keep Polish. But I added few English names of bands like Beatles, AC/DC, or others like Rubik's Clock, AK 47 (and I say it in my memo in english) and there's no problem with it. I think the main factor is that the word must mark something personal, nice and vivid to you. If it is - take it.

I got megaminx from MFG, made an uboxing and a solve - it's very good puzzle. 100 miles ahead of Shengshou. Corner cutting is 40-45 degrees. Awsome.


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## mafergut (Jul 28, 2016)

h2f said:


> I got megaminx from MFG, made an uboxing and a solve - it's very good puzzle. 100 miles ahead of Shengshou. Corner cutting is 40-45 degrees. Awsome.


Not... going... to buy. Will... stick... to SS Aurora... 
Why do you torture me like this?  SS Aurora is a big improvement over old SS but maybe not as good as MFG one (the sculpted version is the one you bought, right?).


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## h2f (Jul 28, 2016)

Sorry, I didnt know SS had realesed Aurora. I meant old SS. The one I got is stickerless and shades are very good.


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## newtonbase (Jul 28, 2016)

There was a strong chance of me missing Macclesfield due to visiting my new niece but she's coming by section tomorrow morning so looks like I'll make Saturday at least.


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## newtonbase (Jul 28, 2016)

Also. Seems I've entered FMC. Having never tried it and only once ever looked at a solution (that I didn't understand) has anyone got any tips?


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## h2f (Jul 28, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> Also. Seems I've entered FMC. Having never tried it and only once ever looked at a solution (that I didn't understand) has anyone got any tips?



If it's first time - just do CFOP. Scramble in your orientation so you dont have to rotate the cube and try to solve it without rotations. You can use B moves etc. If it's hard to you, you can rotate it. Your solution can be long (over 60 I suppose) but safe. 

My question - good resource for megaminx algs. I figure out few OLLs and Aperm. I need Ua and Ub.


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## Lid (Jul 29, 2016)

Got my newest cubepackage on Monday  Have been playing around with the kilominx a bit and my best a12 so far is *55.14*
47.11, 49.34, 53.90, 51.08, 54.09, (1:06.12), 1:05.37, 53.51, 1:04.85, 55.64, 56.53, (45.48)
The 45.48 is also the fastest single. Sub25 (avg) should be possible for the fast cubers I guess?



Spoiler: LL Algs I use



CO
2 corners
F R U R' U' F'
F U R U' R' F'
R U2' R' U2' R U' R'
x' R U R' D R U' R' D'

3 corners
Sune x4

4 corners
F (R U R' U') (R U R' U') F'
F (U R U' R') (U R U' R') F'
Double Sune
Double Anti Sune
Pi
inverse Pi

5 corners
R U (R' U2 R U2') R' U R U2' R'
L' U' (L U2' L' U2) L U' L' U2 L

CP
(R2' U2 R2 U) (R2' U2 R2)
(R2' U2' R2 U') (R2' U R2 U') (R2' U2' R2)
(R U2 R' U' R U' R') U' (R' U2 R U2 R' U R)


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## Jason Green (Jul 29, 2016)

I've been doing a few OH solves since I signed up for it at next months comp. @MarcelP, I just had my first sub 1 minute, another lucky 59.


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## muchacho (Jul 29, 2016)

Thanks @Lid I'll try those algs.


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## h2f (Jul 29, 2016)

Lid said:


> Sub25 (avg) should be possible for the fast cubers I guess?



Yes. I've seen someone's ao12 around 20 seconds.


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## bubbagrub (Jul 29, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> Also. Seems I've entered FMC. Having never tried it and only once ever looked at a solution (that I didn't understand) has anyone got any tips?


As h2f said, use your normal method, but try different things along the way. You could get a complete solution and then go back and see if you can find a shorter one, perhaps starting from scratch or maybe just trying a different final pair insertion. I did my first FMC attempt this way and the hardest bit was transcribing my muscle memory algorithms.


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## Jason Green (Jul 29, 2016)

bubbagrub said:


> As h2f said, use your normal method, but try different things along the way. You could get a complete solution and then go back and see if you can find a shorter one, perhaps starting from scratch or maybe just trying a different final pair insertion. I did my first FMC attempt this way and the hardest bit was transcribing my muscle memory algorithms.


I've never tried it yet. You can't touch the official cube but can with with another one, correct? I'm assuming you know the scramble.


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## h2f (Jul 29, 2016)

@Jason Green You can have 3 cubes and you can do with them whatever you want. You got a paper with scramble and a place to write solution.


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## JanW (Jul 29, 2016)

You can bring 3 cubes and use them all. You are given a scramble, not a scrambled cube. Check regulations for further info: https://www.worldcubeassociation.org/regulations/#article-E-fewest-moves

Edit: Like h2f already said. 

If you use CFOP and are used to solving in one direction, I'd suggest you try scrambling in all different directions. In one hour you should have time to go through them all to see where you find the shortest solution.


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## newtonbase (Jul 29, 2016)

Thanks for the FMC help everyone. Now I just need to get there on time.
My main 2x2 broke under mysterious circumstances this morning. Not the best timing.


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## JanW (Jul 29, 2016)

Good luck in the competition @newtonbase!

3bld accuracy is improving. I got my first Ao5! (3:10), 3:26, 4:03, (DNF 4:21), 3:41. Ao5: *3:42*. 

As you can see, I got careful after 2 successful solves and slowed down quite a bit to get my Ao5. Memo for the 5 solves was 1:14, 1:15, 2:19, 2:21, 2:10. Took a lot of time to review on the last 3 solves. Still, I managed to do the most stupid mistake ever on the DNF solve. I did everything with cube in the wrong direction and ended up solving it around the wrong centers...


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## SenorJuan (Jul 29, 2016)

"Seems I've entered FMC....has anyone got any tips?"
Scramble 6 times with all the 6 colours on top, choose which seems to give the shortest cross, and use that colour orientation when you re-scramble every time.
Put a lot of effort into the final slot (or two slots) to manipulate the last layer. You know BLD algs like 3-corner cycles? They may be useful.
Give yourself plenty of time to actually write down the complete solution, miss out one cube rotation, the solve's a fail.


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## h2f (Jul 29, 2016)

Good Luck, Mark (@newtonbase ). I always read such circumstances as a good sign before competition.

@JanW, nice and congrats. I got ao5 or mo3 in last few weeks very seldom since I've switched to 3style all is down. But in this week I can see a very small progess - my accuracy has grown to 40% and I got some nice 1:xx solves. The slowest solves are around 1:40.


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## JanW (Jul 29, 2016)

Thank @h2f! 

I did 5 attempts at solving as fast as possible after that Ao5. Only 2/5 successes, but both of them improved on my best times for this year. 2:48 (1:19 memo) and 2:33 (1:04 memo). None of those were exceptionally easy scrambles. With a good scramble, I should be ready to break my pb from last fall. I've switched phones since and don't have any records from those days, but I think my pb was 2:11.


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## MarcelP (Jul 29, 2016)

Jason Green said:


> I've been doing a few OH solves since I signed up for it at next months comp. @MarcelP, I just had my first sub 1 minute, another lucky 59.


I have given up OH. Did it at a few comps, but I just do not like it enough to practice it. I do not have time enough for all side events


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## mafergut (Jul 29, 2016)

MarcelP said:


> I have given up OH. Did it at a few comps, but I just do not like it enough to practice it. I do not have time enough for all side events



Yeah, my problem, but in my case I enjoy it, as well as many other side events but it's absolutely impossible to practice all of them enough to improve or even stay flat at some level. So, OH has been suffering from almost no practice other than the weekly comp scrambles, which keeps me at over 40 average and without time to learn 1L OLL, etc. Pyra stays at some basic keyhole with no time to learn Nutella, WO, 1-flip, L4E... Same with skewb, Sarah's beginners with no time to learn intermediate or practice at all. SQ-1 I even forgot the very basic method I had learned. Well, you get the idea. I'm even stuck at 3x3 again and, tbh, I'm not improving that much any more at bigger cubes or Mega. Oh, not to mention that I completely abandoned BLD and I have forgotten M2 algs.


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## JohnnyReggae (Jul 29, 2016)

mafergut said:


> Yeah, my problem, but in my case I enjoy it, as well as many other side events but it's absolutely impossible to practice all of them enough to improve or even stay flat at some level. So, OH has been suffering from almost no practice other than the weekly comp scrambles, which keeps me at over 40 average and without time to learn 1L OLL, etc. Pyra stays at some basic keyhole with no time to learn Nutella, WO, 1-flip, L4E... Same with skewb, Sarah's beginners with no time to learn intermediate or practice at all. SQ-1 I even forgot the very basic method I had learned. Well, you get the idea. I'm even stuck at 3x3 again and, tbh, I'm not improving that much any more at bigger cubes or Mega. Oh, not to mention that I completely abandoned BLD and I have forgotten M2 algs.


Seems to be a standard issue with us older folk of trying to find time within life to cube, never mind learning new things. I constantly try to learning something new, but find I have to continuously relearn stuff that I don't practice much. I've forgotten how to do SQ-1 so mine remains scrambled. I suppose I could sit with a guide for 10 minutes and solve it so that at least it is in a solved state like the rest of my cubes


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## mafergut (Jul 29, 2016)

JohnnyReggae said:


> Seems to be a standard issue with us older folk of trying to find time within life to cube, never mind learning new things. I constantly try to learning something new, but find I have to continuously relearn stuff that I don't practice much. I've forgotten how to do SQ-1 so mine remains scrambled. I suppose I could sit with a guide for 10 minutes and solve it so that at least it is in a solved state like the rest of my cubes


I have already discussed in this forum about my OCD to have everything solved but, in a case like this, I would be just fine with having it in cube shape so that I can put it back in the box  I'm glad mine is solved, not sure when or even if I'll ever take it out of the box again.


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## JanW (Jul 29, 2016)

There's no way I could keep practicing many different events at a regular basis. I tend to always focus on one thing at a time. Now when I got excited about bld again, ZZ practice has dropped to zero. Eventually I'm likely to get more excited about something else, then I will take a break from bld.

But at least bld is improving.  2:15 (1:00 memo). This is already very close to my old pb. Scramble had 3 corner cycles, 5 edge cycles and parity, so there are still easier scrambles to come.


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## Jason Green (Jul 29, 2016)

I agree until I'm truly sub 20 nothing else is getting much attention. And even then maybe I'll want to push further. So for now I'll do 100 or 200 3x3, then maybe 4 4x4 solves, 1 5x5 and 20 2x2.


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## mafergut (Jul 29, 2016)

Jason Green said:


> I agree until I'm truly sub 20 nothing else is getting much attention. And even then maybe I'll want to push further. So for now I'll do 100 or 200 3x3, then maybe 4 4x4 solves, 1 5x5 and 20 2x2.


In my case it was the other way around. It was the lack of progress on 3x3 which pushed me to try other events so that I could start to claim PBs again, which is motivating. I really can't remember when I beat a 3x3 PB for the last time but 4x4 or 5x5 I am still improving. Maybe if I had devoted all that effort to 3x3 I would be a second faster by now, maybe even two, I'm not sure but I can say that I'm more than 1min 30sec faster at 4x4 than last year and infinitely faster at 5x5  (I had never timed a 5x5 solve until January this year and it was like 9 minutes).


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## bubbagrub (Jul 29, 2016)

Jason Green said:


> I've never tried it yet. You can't touch the official cube but can with with another one, correct? I'm assuming you know the scramble.


So, here's how it goes: everyone sits down at a table. Each person can bring up to 3 of their own cubes. Everyone gets a piece of blank paper and a pen (or you bring your own pen).

Everyone is also given a piece of paper, face-down, with a scramble written (and drawn) on it. When the time starts, everyone turns their paper over (like a school exam) and starts. You can do whatever you want (within reason!) during the hour, but at the end of the hour you are expected to hand in a piece of paper with a solution written down which solves the cube for the scramble you were given.

Obviously, you start by scrambling one (or all) of your cubes, and then you get on with solving it, writing down your solution as you go, on the scrap paper. Typically you try out a number of possible approaches before finding one you like, which you polish off, check carefully (by trying it on the scrambled cube) and then write down to submit as your solution.

You have to use the right notation (e.g., Rw, not r). You can write down rotations (x, y, z, x', y', z', x2, y2, z2) but they don't count as moves. It's an extremely good idea to learn to do the solving without rotations, though, as it is really easy to make a mistake if you use rotations in your solve. M moves count as 2 (and also E and S, of course), but it's better to avoid them altogether and use, for example R L' instead (this is because it can be helpful in finding cancellations -- e.g., maybe you do an alg that ends with M, and is then followed by another algorithm that starts with R'. That R' cancels with the R and you're left with two fewer moves. 

There are a few other nuances -- e.g., you're allowed to put little stickers on your cube(s) during the solve, to help with inserting commutators, and your solution *has* to be 70 moves or fewer -- but otherwise it's pretty straightforward, and a lot of fun!

If you want to get serious with FMC, this guide is awesome and tells you absolutely everything you need to know, including the most advanced stuff (e.g., NISS).


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## mark49152 (Jul 29, 2016)

mafergut said:


> In my case it was the other way around. It was the lack of progress on 3x3 which pushed me to try other events .


Same here. I hit a long plateau with 3x3 at about 17-18 seconds and got bored of endless practice with no improvement. So I got into other events. It's now more than a year since I practised 3x3 properly, more than just idle untimed solves or competition warm ups. Actually my 3x3 times have not got much worse in that time.


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## Shaky Hands (Jul 29, 2016)

I've been away on holiday/vacation for a week and just catching up on this thread. Lack of any recent practice means I will probably mess up at the comp tomorrow, but 3x3 and 5x5 aren't until Sunday and those events I should be able to get some practice in for and get at least one PB there. Look forward to seeing you there, @newtonbase and @mark49152.

@newtonbase, I will also be doing FMC for the first time tomorrow and just using crude CFOP. Aiming for something sub-55 if I can. Would be happy enough with that.

@teacher77, welcome to the thread. Plenty of good info here. You will be able to pick up much. I watched your sample solve and agree that gaining confidence in solving the cross at the bottom will help your solve times. You might just want to work on the cross then rescramble before F2L to get direct experience in it. Good luck with your progress.

@Selkie, congrats on the weight loss fella. I was once 4 stone (non-UK this is 56lbs) heavier than I am now and you can probably tell from my WCA profile pic that I enjoy the outdoors life a lot these days! 

Cheers all.


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## newtonbase (Jul 30, 2016)

Shaky Hands said:


> I've been away on holiday/vacation for a week and just catching up on this thread. Lack of any recent practice means I will probably mess up at the comp tomorrow, but 3x3 and 5x5 aren't until Sunday and those events I should be able to get some practice in for and get at least one PB there. Look forward to seeing you there, @newtonbase and @mark49152.
> 
> @newtonbase, I will also be doing FMC for the first time tomorrow and just using crude CFOP. Aiming for something sub-55 if I can. Would be happy enough with that.
> 
> ...


Looking forward to seeing everyone too. Given that it's 3am and I'm dealing with my son (he'll sleep through one day I'm sure) it's unlikely I'll be there in time for FMC. Current target is 10am.

I'm not expecting any decent results either. Practice has been awful. I DNF'd every 3BLD yesterday but if I can scrape one PB somewhere I'll be happy. 

I can't imagine you 4 stone heavier @Shaky Hands


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## mark49152 (Jul 30, 2016)

Ready for the competition and looking forward to seeing everyone! Had a terrible night's sleep for some reason so not in the best shape for big blind, but hey ho, memorising a 5x5 is all about the fun, isn't it?


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## muchacho (Jul 30, 2016)

...and he was ready for 5BLD. Also seeing more PBs from you guys, congrats!


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## efattah (Jul 30, 2016)

I got my first rubik's cube in 1981 before it was even released in North America when my dad brought one home from Hungary. He later brought me 'firsts' of every cube made in the early 80's. Although I was extremely young (6yrs old in '81), I solved every cube he brought me, without instructions or books as none were initially available-- EXCEPT square-1. Square-1 came out much later, so I should have been a lot 'smarter' by then. I quickly got it fully solved minus two swapped edges and never got past that. I probably could have but the required effort was huge. Megaminx and 4x4 had presented their own problems (self-generating algs for megaminx tripod was really time consuming but you had the HUGE advantage that you could develop the algorithms on the other side of the cube that was already solved, whereas Square-1 did not have this advantage), and the 4x4 parity problem confused me to no end and sometimes to resolve 4x4 parity I would actually re-scramble the whole cube and solve it again. I could only get PB's on 4x4 if I got a lucky solve with no parity, and the original Rubik's Revenge puzzle (the original 4x4) was a nightmare to turn. Anyway I just thought it was interesting to share that in my opinion, for a person given all these cubes with no internet, and no books, and no help, I feel strongly that Square-1 is the most difficult to solve.

Eric Fattah
BC, Canada


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## mark49152 (Jul 30, 2016)

muchacho said:


> ...and he was ready for 5BLD. Also seeing more PBs from you guys, congrats!


Thanks, yeah had a good day at comp today


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## Logiqx (Jul 31, 2016)

Nice work Mark & Mark. Looks like a PB fest!

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk


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## mark49152 (Jul 31, 2016)

Logiqx said:


> Nice work Mark & Mark. Looks like a PB fest!
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk


Representing the oldies... "silver solvers"


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## h2f (Jul 31, 2016)

Yes, congrats to your both! Break a corner today! Good luck!


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## moralsh (Jul 31, 2016)

Congrats to both, yes, amazing results


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## JanW (Jul 31, 2016)

Congrats to everyone at the competition! Impressive results!

I watched Maskow's 41/41 WR video (insane!) and noticed all his cubes are oriented in his solving direction, green top, red front, at the start when he takes the covers off. In some other official mbld videos this doesn't appear to be the case. Can you request the cubes in a given orientation or should they be random?

Yesterday I went ahead and ordered 6 more Yuxin Fire cubes. In the last week I've found I really enjoy that cube for bld. It's not too fast, though fast enough, and very controllable. Much better for the purpose than any other <5$ cube I've tried. Once those arrive, I'll have 8 of them. I'll make this my target for this fall, get an 8/8 success, then I might buy more.  Right now my pb is 3/3, also a couple of 3/4 attempts with only one mistake. 4 cube attempts currently take me about 25 minutes. Getting up to 8 with a decent amount of practice should be doable.


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## phreaker (Jul 31, 2016)

mafergut said:


> That's a great single! Congratulations! I will have to practice OH seriously again but I don't think I can get to those times with current move count. I will have to either learn 1L OLL, COLL or change to Roux. [emoji2]
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 4 with Tapatalk



Or ZZ 

ZZ actually has the simplest LL in many ways. I think it is 7 OLL, and 21 PLL? The PLL is what you already know... OLL is the OLL from two look just the corners cases. 

Alas, EOLine is still painful... but ya know... Try it, you might like it . First one's free.

-Ira


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## mark49152 (Jul 31, 2016)

JanW said:


> Congrats to everyone at the competition! Impressive results!
> 
> I watched Maskow's 41/41 WR video (insane!) and noticed all his cubes are oriented in his solving direction, green top, red front, at the start when he takes the covers off. In some other official mbld videos this doesn't appear to be the case. Can you request the cubes in a given orientation or should they be random.


No it should be random and he was warned over this - there's an incident report on the WCA site.



JanW said:


> Getting up to 8 with a decent amount of practice should be doable.


Yes I agree. It's just a question of solid memo and lots of reviews, and careful execution. Go for it!

Thanks for the kind congrats. I had four goals this comp and made three of them. 5BLD success, sub-1 and sub-2 singles in 4x4 and 5x5 respectively, and 8/8 multi. Ironically the 8/8 was the one I was most confident about .

Edit: Oh and 3BLD PB so 4/5 goals met.


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## ThomasJE (Jul 31, 2016)

You guys are faster than I remember... Maybe after these years of not practising I should start again 

And I never got the hang of blindfold... Maybe it would be a cool party trick to have.


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## newtonbase (Jul 31, 2016)

ThomasJE said:


> And I never got the hang of blindfold... Maybe it would be a cool party trick to have.


It is. Do it. 

Back from Macc. Results overall were far better than expected. Took a bit off my 2x2 average and 4x4 single and got a massive 5x5 single that I've never even got close to at home. Also got 2 3BLD successes including a PB. Pyraminx and OH were poor but I don't care. Failed MBLD but I'll get there some time. 3x3 was the only real disaster. Wasn't expecting a PB but I seem to have regressed a year. 
There was plenty of success for the older guys with Mark's 5BLD being a highlight. 
After hours was fun too. I had a civilised meal with Mark and Andy and some very uncivilised drinks with some of the regulars.


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## Shaky Hands (Jul 31, 2016)

Great comp at Macclesfield. I was really happy to get to a Second Round for the first time ever and set several PB's alongside entering some events for the first time. Also happy to have been the judge for a few PB's from Mark and Mark.

Awesome time spent with oldies @mark49152, @newtonbase and @bubbagrub. Great curry as well.

Now I'll have to crack on with some proper practice before the next comp in 1 month's time. Hoping to learn a couple of OLL's a week before then with the ultimate target of learning Full OLL by end of 2016. Also, getting back into the habit of participating in the forum's Weekly Comp is a must for me.


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## mafergut (Jul 31, 2016)

Congratulations to all for your PBs at the comp this weekend.
For me it's been more of a swimming pool weekend with almost no practice and I don't want to repeat myself talking about how much I envy you for goint to comps and all that... ooops! I did it again, and no, it was not my intention to paraphrase Britney Spears at all.


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## h2f (Jul 31, 2016)

The thing with Maskow's 41/41 is a little bit complicated. In the time when he was doing it the regulations had changed - cubes had to be in random orientation. The earlier regulations told nothing about it and blinders often asked to put the cube in their orientation. He told me that he was on the comp where some solevers got the cube in their orientation after the regulations had changed. And when he did 41/41 he and the judge and the delegate werent aware of the change. That's why he got only warn and the record was approved by WCA.


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## bubbagrub (Jul 31, 2016)

Shaky Hands said:


> Great comp at Macclesfield. I was really happy to get to a Second Round for the first time ever and set several PB's alongside entering some events for the first time. Also happy to have been the judge for a few PB's from Mark and Mark.
> 
> Awesome time spent with oldies @mark49152, @newtonbase and @bubbagrub. Great curry as well.
> 
> Now I'll have to crack on with some proper practice before the next comp in 1 month's time. Hoping to learn a couple of OLL's a week before then with the ultimate target of learning Full OLL by end of 2016. Also, getting back into the habit of participating in the forum's Weekly Comp is a must for me.



Agreed -- it was a great comp. And good to share in the fun and PBs with the various oldies. And as Mark said, other-Mark's 5BLD success (and silver medal) was a particular highlight -- maybe one day you'll inspire me to try big BLD again, Mark... 

There were a few oldies who aren't on here, I think -- I wonder if they'll stumble upon this thread, or if anyone mentioned it to them?


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## mark49152 (Jul 31, 2016)

Had a great time this weekend with the other oldies. Congrats everyone on the PBs, some great improvements there.

A few comments and thoughts about my results...

In 5x5 my 2:02 official was also my overall PB that had stood since January. My warm up today started with some awful 3-minute solves followed by a 1:57 out of the blue, my first sub-2. Then on the very next solve, another one! Wow! At that point I decided to finish warm ups on a high, and after a shaky start in the event I got a 1:58 official. You wait six months for a bus then three come at once .

I think there is something about being surrounded by cubing and fellow cubers that acts as a performance enhancer. I always feel like a better cuber by the end of the weekend.

I was also reflecting on my 3BLD 1:24 and am kicking myself that I didn't do better. The reason is that I have done loads of corner comms practice and quite often use them in solves at home now. In that 1:24 there were four really easy comms that I certainly would have done at home, but I only used one, reverting to the comfort zone of OP for the rest. Plus, I wasted about six seconds lifting the blindfold and taking one last look because I didn't trust my memo. If I had had the confidence not to do those things, I think it could have been over 10 seconds faster. So one of my resolutions is to be braver in 3BLD in future. Next comp I will not let myself use OP for corners at all.

In multi I was disappointed to drop points because the memo was good and it was just a silly execution error. I'm not exactly sure what, but I think forgetting to undo a setup or similar. MBLD is a lot of sustained mental effort and it feels frustrating to mess up on one little slip. In a way it was less frustrating to screw up several cubes through stupid mistakes like I did in London! Oh well, try again next time.

Finally, 3x3. I've switched to GuoGuan at home as it's light and fast and turns great. So I used it in the first round at Macc. Disaster! My comp nerves were just amplified by the more unforgiving cube and I locked and fumbled all over the place. I switched back to AoLong for the second round and was much more comfortable, although it wasn't a successful event for me this comp. Anyway, my lesson learned here is that I need a slower and more controllable cube in comp, and actually it might even be better to have two mains, one for home and one for comps. That's what I think I will do for now.


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## h2f (Aug 1, 2016)

Congratulations to all for your PBs at the comp this weekend!

I had a busy weekend due to my family visit. Luckily i could do around 20 solves of megaminx and dropped to my times to low 5. I've replaced 3 colors and changed white (it's on bottom now), grey (it's on top layer now) nad cream (it on bottom layer now). I've seen that new record holder had similiar thoughts about it - it's on one movie on his yt channel. And now it's fine.


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## mafergut (Aug 1, 2016)

h2f said:


> Congratulations to all for your PBs at the comp this weekend!
> 
> I had a busy weekend due to my family visit. Luckily i could do around 20 solves of megaminx and dropped to my times to low 5. I've replaced 3 colors and changed white (it's on bottom now), grey (it's on top layer now) nad cream (it on bottom layer now). I've seen that new record holder had similiar thoughts about it - it's on one movie on his yt channel. And now it's fine.


Not sure what you say here. Have you moved some caps?


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## muchacho (Aug 1, 2016)

Just some colors changed, see 




I also have white opposite yellow, it made sense to me.

Yesterday I improved my best Ao5 from 18.194 to 18.191 and today to 18.153... small improvements, but being that fast frequently must be a good sign.



Spoiler



24372 01-ago-2016 9:22:51 00:14.193 F2 U' B2 U B2 D F2 R2 D2 U' L2 F' R' L F U L2 F2 L D' L2 U2
24371 01-ago-2016 9:22:01 00:20.014 B2 D2 L2 D F2 D B2 R2 F' D U2 B2 R2 U' L D' F U
24370 01-ago-2016 9:21:17 00:23.119 U' L2 U2 L2 F2 D' R2 F2 D R2 U B' R2 B2 D2 F R2 L' B L2 U R'
24369 01-ago-2016 9:20:34 00:16.247 D2 B2 D2 B2 R2 U2 F2 U B2 U R2 F' L' B D B L D F' D' U
24368 01-ago-2016 9:19:54 00:18.198 R2 B2 U L2 U F2 R2 D' L2 F2 U2 F D2 L D' L2 B' R' F L2 U' F'


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## h2f (Aug 1, 2016)

mafergut said:


> Not sure what you say here. Have you moved some caps?



I used bad words. I have switched 3 colors - white - gray - cream.


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## JohnnyReggae (Aug 1, 2016)

phreaker said:


> Or ZZ
> 
> ZZ actually has the simplest LL in many ways. I think it is 7 OLL, and 21 PLL? The PLL is what you already know... OLL is the OLL from two look just the corners cases.
> 
> ...


I started looking at ZZ. In truth it is not that hard. The EOLine takes a bit of getting used to. Having said that though I still split the EO from the line as currently I can't do both at the same time. I like the method and want to spend more time on it especially after hearing about ZZ-CT which seems very promising .... it's just the number of algs to learn ... not sure if I want to spend the amount of time required to learn them all to get a few seconds faster than I am currently using CFOP.


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## mafergut (Aug 1, 2016)

JohnnyReggae said:


> I started looking at ZZ. In truth it is not that hard. The EOLine takes a bit of getting used to. Having said that though I still split the EO from the line as currently I can't do both at the same time. I like the method and want to spend more time on it especially after hearing about ZZ-CT which seems very promising .... it's just the number of algs to learn ... not sure if I want to spend the amount of time required to learn them all to get a few seconds faster than I am currently using CFOP.


I have seen the ZZ-CT thread but, to be honest I didn't quite get it. Can you explain a bit?

Sent from my Nexus 4 with Tapatalk


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## JanW (Aug 1, 2016)

ZZ-CT solves last F2L slot and LL in 2 steps. First step, TSLE, inserts the last F2L edge and orients all 5 corners (U layer and FDR), while ignoring permutation of the corners (109 cases). 2nd step, TTLL, permutes the last 5 corners and 4 edges (94 cases). 

TSLE recognition works like OLL recognition, you only look at orientation of U layer. TTLL recognition is like PLL recognition, you look at the blocks on the sides of U layer. The algs are supposed to be fairly easy to execute and many of them easy to learn. 

It's still a lot to learn, but at least it's less than full ZBLL. Recognition should also be a lot faster than ZBLL.


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## JanW (Aug 1, 2016)

4/5 mbld, 38:30, off by a flipped edge. It was a stupid execution mistake. Instead of solving UF->LF->LU I did UF->FL->UL, even though my memo was correct and I was thinking about the correct stickers.  But, at least I'm steadily improving. 8 cubes seems more and more doable.

In a few days I should get a pack of Traxxas 50k, 30k and 10k in the mail. Then I have to learn how to actually lube a cube. Have used only Maru lube so far.


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## mafergut (Aug 1, 2016)

JanW said:


> ZZ-CT solves last F2L slot and LL in 2 steps. First step, TSLE, inserts the last F2L edge and orients all 5 corners (U layer and FDR), while ignoring permutation of the corners (109 cases). 2nd step, TTLL, permutes the last 5 corners and 4 edges (94 cases).
> 
> TSLE recognition works like OLL recognition, you only look at orientation of U layer. TTLL recognition is like PLL recognition, you look at the blocks on the sides of U layer. The algs are supposed to be fairly easy to execute and many of them easy to learn.
> 
> It's still a lot to learn, but at least it's less than full ZBLL. Recognition should also be a lot faster than ZBLL.


Ah, okay, what I was not getting was the part about 1st step orienting the corners, so I thought, why the last step has less algs if you have one more corner unsolved? But, anyway, it's around 200 algs, more or less half of ZBLL. I mean, it's still quite a journey. What I don't like is that if forces you to leave one specific ZZF2L pair for the end so, in case you happen to have a free pair in U at your disposal you cannot just insert it.


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## MarcelP (Aug 1, 2016)

JohnnyReggae said:


> not sure if I want to spend the amount of time required to learn them all to get a few seconds faster than I am currently using CFOP.


I would.. The thing is, I doubt ZZ will make me faster because ZZ requires block building skills and of course the whole EOLine thing. If I could master that, I would probably be faster becauses it leaves me with easy PLL's. But I would definatly find it worth all the trouble if it would make me 2 - 3 secs faster than CFOP


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## mafergut (Aug 1, 2016)

MarcelP said:


> I would.. The thing is, I doubt ZZ will make me faster because ZZ requires block building skills and of course the whole EOLine thing. If I could master that, I would probably be faster becauses it leaves me with easy PLL's. But I would definatly find it worth all the trouble if it would make me 2 - 3 secs faster than CFOP


To be honest. I'm getting more and more convinced lately that, at our age, what makes the difference is movecount (and lookahead) instead of spamming TPS with hundreds of algs and, for that purpose, I still think the best method is and will ever be Roux. And you can have "advanced" Roux with just 42 algs (full CMLL), which is even less than full OLL + PLL, not to talk about ZZ-CT or ZBLL. Ofcourse, there's the same problem here regarding block building that you see in ZZ. If I ever get bored of 3x3 'cos of my lack of progress I might give another method a try and it would most probably be Roux, even though ZZ seems better for OH (which I also like) but I think I could get used to the table abuse thing for M slices if I practice enough.


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## JohnnyReggae (Aug 1, 2016)

MarcelP said:


> I would.. The thing is, I doubt ZZ will make me faster because ZZ requires block building skills and of course the whole EOLine thing. If I could master that, I would probably be faster becauses it leaves me with easy PLL's. But I would definatly find it worth all the trouble if it would make me 2 - 3 secs faster than CFOP


I'm seriously thinking about going down that road, although I would like to see how far I can get with CFOP before I feel that I'm not going down, or unlikely to get lower times. But it is always good to learn new things which keeps things interesting.


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## MarcelP (Aug 1, 2016)

mafergut said:


> To be honest. I'm getting more and more convinced lately that, at our age, what makes the difference is movecount (and lookahead) instead of spamming TPS with hundreds of algs and, for that purpose,



I think you are right! Even at practiced scrambles after doing the same scramble 10 times I can not get the insane TPS that new young cubers do get. But if you do 40 moves instead of 100


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## JohnnyReggae (Aug 1, 2016)

New 5x5 PB ... 2:43.73 

B2 F2 Lw' Rw' Uw2 R Bw' Rw F' Uw2 Dw' D L2 U2 R' Uw Fw2 Rw' B2 R Fw' Dw U2 L2 B' Lw' L B2 Rw L2 U' Bw F B Lw' R' L2 D2 Bw F' Rw2 U Dw2 Fw F2 Bw' D' R Lw' Dw R2 Uw2 F2 L2 Lw' D2 Rw' B Rw' Fw'

The Bochuang that I ordered a month ago arrived on Friday along with a Shengshou Mini Linglong 5x5. The Bochuang is an awesome 5x5, certainly the best that I have. I currently have a Moyu Huachuang and a Cyclone Boys. The Bochuang has made me keen to practice 5x5 again because it feels so nice, turns so smoothly and is really quiet. I so rarely get a sub 3 min with 5x5 with my average between 3:00 and 3:30 somewhere. In the last couple days I have already had 3 sub 3mins. Don't know how it compares to the Yuxin but I am so glad that I got the Bochuang as I really like it a lot.

The mini Shengshou Linglong is surprisingly not bad at all. It turns quite nicely albeit a bit harder to turn than the Bochuang, but then again they are not in the same league. I really like the small size and at my current speeds quite adequate to speedcube with. If you're a lot faster than me then it would be more for the fun and something that is easy to stick in a pocket and travel with.

Here they are next to my Gans V2 ...


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## teacher77 (Aug 1, 2016)

Hey guys !

I just acheived my first sub 40 average (of 12). It's a 39.98 s !

Still unable to solve the cross on the bottom though. I feel it gets me slower despite the small gain at look ahead.


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## mafergut (Aug 1, 2016)

@JohnnyReggae you have them already stickered in pink and purple??? Very cool color scheme by the way but that means you will not like most stickerless cubes, right? I have a couple 3x3s stickered with pink (Chris Olson color scheme) and I don't have any issues with recognition but I'm not sure that would be the case if I also changed blue with purple.

Nice to see the Linglong besides a 3x3 and realize it's the exact same size. I might buy one 

@teacher77 It's normal that, at first, you are a bit slower, until you get used to it, but once you get the grasp of it you will see the advantages of doing cross on bottom. It's the same when changing from LBL to F2L


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## Shaky Hands (Aug 1, 2016)

@teacher77, I'd encourage you to keep at it with solving the cross on the bottom. Lookahead will come over time but solving the cross in this way will help you forever without needing to relearn cross methods later on. You will take in the movement of the other cubies better by solving in this way even if it's only knowledge gained subliminally at first.


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## JohnnyReggae (Aug 1, 2016)

mafergut said:


> @JohnnyReggae you have them already stickered in pink and purple??? Very cool color scheme by the way but that means you will not like most stickerless cubes, right? I have a couple 3x3s stickered with pink (Chris Olson color scheme) and I don't have any issues with recognition but I'm not sure that would be the case if I also changed blue with purple.
> 
> Nice to see the Linglong besides a 3x3 and realize it's the exact same size. I might buy one


I swapped Pink for Red and Purple for Blue quite a while back. I've gotten used to the recognition and I really like both colours as they contrast well against all the other fluro colours. These days when I order a cube I also order stickers from TheCubicle for them. They both usually take around a month to arrive and I resticker the cubes almost immediately. 

I don't struggle to much using standard colours with recognition, but I do much prefer my colour scheme


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## mark49152 (Aug 1, 2016)

OK so having looked at the video of yesterday's MBLD, I have figured out how I screwed up that one cube. During edges, I executed two of them as corners! Executed GH corners instead of GH edges! OMG! And then I went on to solve five more edges properly without realising what I had done. What a shocker.

The only way I can explain it is as a lapse in concentration. I don't know what I can do about that. How can you train or practise to improve such things? At least after London I knew how to change my approach to not make the same mistakes again, but on this one, I don't know. 

For a start, I have ordered beefier ear muffs as the noise was bothering me more than usual yesterday, and the ones I have are pretty lightweight. I could wear plugs underneath but I don't like them.


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## bubbagrub (Aug 1, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> For a start, I have ordered beefier ear muffs as the noise was bothering me more than usual yesterday, and the ones I have are pretty lightweight. I could wear plugs underneath but I don't like them.


Yeah, it was noisy. After I finished I tried ssssh-ing a few times, and each time the noise would drop by about 80 decibels and then five seconds later be back to normal. It seems like there must be some way to get a room full of people to just be quiet (or go out) for an hour...


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## newtonbase (Aug 1, 2016)

I've given up trying to block out sound. I wonder if there is value in practicing in a noisy environment. Maybe with the TV and radio both on?


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## newtonbase (Aug 1, 2016)

BTW that's a bizarre mistake to make @mark49152. I've started corners as edges and vice versa but never switched midway and not noticed.


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## mark49152 (Aug 1, 2016)

bubbagrub said:


> Yeah, it was noisy. After I finished I tried ssssh-ing a few times, and each time the noise would drop by about 80 decibels and then five seconds later be back to normal. It seems like there must be some way to get a room full of people to just be quiet (or go out) for an hour...


Usually people are very considerate during blind at UK comps and this time it did seem worse. I wonder if it's because the solvers were further away and maybe out of sight. In smaller venues people are usually closer and perhaps more aware of the solvers.



newtonbase said:


> I've given up trying to block out sound. I wonder if there is value in practicing in a noisy environment. Maybe with the TV and radio both on?


That's a good idea and I've seen that Gianfranco does it. I don't know how effective it is. Either way, I like the idea of owning the problem myself and trying to become more impervious to distraction whether it's by conditioning or hardware. There will always be some comps where noise problems occur.


newtonbase said:


> BTW that's a bizarre mistake to make @mark49152. I've started corners as edges and vice versa but never switched midway and not noticed.


I know. Maybe I should be more concerned about dementia than noise .


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## Logiqx (Aug 1, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> Finally, 3x3. I've switched to GuoGuan at home as it's light and fast and turns great. So I used it in the first round at Macc. Disaster! My comp nerves were just amplified by the more unforgiving cube and I locked and fumbled all over the place. I switched back to AoLong for the second round and was much more comfortable, although it wasn't a successful event for me this comp. Anyway, my lesson learned here is that I need a slower and more controllable cube in comp, and actually it might even be better to have two mains, one for home and one for comps. That's what I think I will do for now.



Here's an analogy for you regarding practice vs competition. I think tips 3 and 4 are kind of along the same lines as what you've just said in your post. I think the older cubers on this thread have also had enough time to figure out tip 5.


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## SenorJuan (Aug 1, 2016)

Chris Hardwick mentions somewhere that he used to practice (speedsolving) with distracting noises, including asking his father to surprise him with 'random' things while he was solving.

Maybe comp organisers could illuminate a red light (or whatever) to indicate when BLD was taking place.


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## newtonbase (Aug 1, 2016)

SenorJuan said:


> Chris Hardwick mentions somewhere that he used to practice (speedsolving) with distracting noises, including asking his father to surprise him with 'random' things while he was solving.
> 
> Maybe comp organisers could illuminate a red light (or whatever) to indicate when BLD was taking place.


Tasers have red lights on them. Just saying.


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## mark49152 (Aug 1, 2016)

Logiqx said:


> Here's an analogy for you regarding practice vs competition. I think tips 3 and 4 are kind of along the same lines as what you've just said in your post. I think the older cubers on this thread have also had enough time to figure out tip 5.


Yeah I can see the logic in that for the sport he talks about, although I'm not sure how it transposes to cubing. The problem is that my hands behave slightly differently on the day. I don't know how I would recreate those conditions in practice, and it's certainly hard to make my hands behave during comp like they do during practice.

More experienced cubers advise turning slower in comp and that makes a lot of sense. What feels like 80% speed under comp pressure is probably actually normal full speed anyway 

Anyhow I'm definitely not using the GuoGuan in comp again. I don't need a faster cube and nothing about it will help me.


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## newtonbase (Aug 1, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> More experienced cubers advise turning slower in comp and that makes a lot of sense. What feels like 80% speed under comp pressure is probably actually normal full speed anyway


I tried slow turning at North London and got PBs. Should have done it yesterday!


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## newtonbase (Aug 1, 2016)

Really pleased to be ranked 33 in the UK for 3BLD so I've decided to focus on that for now and try to move up. However it does get very competitive and I'll need sub 2mins to get top 20.
Stage 1 is going to be a letter pair list. I have a few nights away with the family next week so by the end of that I plan to have something for each pair even if it isn't great. 
I'll also practice with @mark49152's tracing technique. Having had a try with it I've realised that I pause an awful lot. I suppose I hadn't noticed before as I would usually stop anyway to come up with a word or image. 
The Mr Men provide a rich source of images.


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## bubbagrub (Aug 1, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> Really pleased to be ranked 33 in the UK for 3BLD so I've decided to focus on that for now and try to move up. However it does get very competitive and I'll need sub 2mins to get top 20.
> Stage 1 is going to be a letter pair list. I have a few nights away with the family next week so by the end of that I plan to have something for each pair even if it isn't great.



Sounds good! Good luck with it.


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## JanW (Aug 1, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> The problem is that my hands behave slightly differently on the day. I don't know how I would recreate those conditions in practice, and it's certainly hard to make my hands behave during comp like they do during practice.
> 
> More experienced cubers advise turning slower in comp and that makes a lot of sense. What feels like 80% speed under comp pressure is probably actually normal full speed anyway


I've never been to a cubing comp, but as a concert pianist I'm very familiar with performing complex finger work under pressure, and with how the hands feel like they behave very differently in such situations. This is something pretty much all professional musicians struggle with at some level. The most common advice is to do mental practice of the actual performance situation. For a musician, this means you envision the situation in your head, picture yourself walking out on the stage, taking a bow, seeing the audience, sitting down at the instrument and then play whatever whatever you are about to play. This way it is possible to recreate the same feeling of the performance situation to some degree. It doesn't always work, but sometimes I've managed to create the same shaky feeling in my hands in the comfort of my own home. If you can practice with that feeling, you can get used to it and learn how to handle it.

In cubing terms, you can imagine yourself at the venue in a room full of cubers, waiting for your name to be called and everything else leading up to the solve. Then you sit down at the table, cube covered, some judge sitting next to you and so on. Cover up the cube like it would be at the comp, use a stack mat, then go for the solve thinking that this is the one that counts.

I can imagine that turning too fast in comp is a common problem. Very often when I've listened to recordings of my own performances, I've been shocked about how fast I've played. One explanation I've heard for this is that it has to do with your heart rate. You have some kind of internal clock which tells you how fast you are doing stuff. When your heart is beating faster in a stressful situation, the internal clock is thrown off, as everything would feel slower in relation to the heart rate, unless you do it faster than normal. So basically you should do things slower than what feels normal if you want to do it at your regular speed.


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## bubbagrub (Aug 1, 2016)

Just did my first timed 7x7 solve... 14:24... So I've got a way to go before I'll make the hard-cut (10:00)...


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## mark49152 (Aug 1, 2016)

JanW said:


> In cubing terms, you can imagine yourself at the venue in a room full of cubers, waiting for your name to be called and everything else leading up to the solve. Then you sit down at the table, cube covered, some judge sitting next to you and so on. Cover up the cube like it would be at the comp, use a stack mat, then go for the solve thinking that this is the one that counts.


Yes it's a good point. Comps are relaxed places - what creates pressure is knowing you have a small number of chances to do well otherwise it's disappointment and a long wait until the next chance. I wonder if doing the weekly comp would help with that - at the moment I don't, but I suppose it could be similar pressure, albeit to a lesser degree.


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## Shaky Hands (Aug 1, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> Yes it's a good point. Comps are relaxed places - what creates pressure is knowing you have a small number of chances to do well otherwise it's disappointment and a long wait until the next chance. I wonder if doing the weekly comp would help with that - at the moment I don't, but I suppose it could be similar pressure, albeit to a lesser degree.



I remember really feeling the pressure in the graduation week for the Race to Sub-30. Knowing that I needed to get a success 3 weeks in a row and one failure meant starting the run from scratch again felt hard. The number of events in the Weekly Comp doesn't really create the same level of pressure for me but is worthwhile regardless considering I'd be practicing anyway, just with other scrambles if not for those.

I listened to a podcast where Daniel Sheppard was interviewed and I recall him saying he never feels pressure at comps. Would like to get to that stage one day.

PS: @mark49152 @newtonbase @Selkie @Logiqx @bubbagrub ... Guildford comp is official for 1-2 October weekend. See UKCA page (no dedicated forum post just yet.)


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## Jason Green (Aug 1, 2016)

Wonderful with everyone on PBs and comp success!

As far as practice I can sometimes get very close to the comp nerves at home by visualizing it. I too felt a lot of nerves on the graduation rounds from the race threads. I blew it the first time in race to 25, but haven't blown one since then.


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## newtonbase (Aug 1, 2016)

Shaky Hands said:


> I remember really feeling the pressure in the graduation week for the Race to Sub-30. Knowing that I needed to get a success 3 weeks in a row and one failure meant starting the run from scratch again felt hard. The number of events in the Weekly Comp doesn't really create the same level of pressure for me but is worthwhile regardless considering I'd be practicing anyway, just with other scrambles if not for those.
> 
> I listened to a podcast where Daniel Sheppard was interviewed and I recall him saying he never feels pressure at comps. Would like to get to that stage one day.
> 
> PS: @mark49152 @newtonbase @Selkie @Logiqx @bubbagrub ... Guildford comp is official for 1-2 October weekend. See UKCA page (no dedicated forum post just yet.)


I'm in discussions with Mrs Base about it. I'm saving up points for the UKs (if they ever get a venue) so I'll be happy with a day. 

The subject of competition nerves is interesting. Of course the simplest way to relax is to not care but then why bother practicing, or even competing. I've been looking at freediving recently. These guys must be as good as anyone at relaxing before competing. They have to drop their heart rates before doing something incredibly hard and dangerous. Maybe @efattah could give us some tips? I know about the breathing side of it but would love to know more about the psychology of it.


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## One Wheel (Aug 2, 2016)

MarcelP said:


> I think you are right! Even at practiced scrambles after doing the same scramble 10 times I can not get the insane TPS that new young cubers do get. But if you do 40 moves instead of 100



TPS reminded me of an interesting encounter yesterday. There is a boy at my church who is about 14 or 15. He has seen me playing with cubes now and then, and I suspect that was what inspired him to get his own. He got a Rubik's brand first, but yesterday he had a really good speedcube. (Not sure what kind.) I asked him how fast he can solve it, and he said that he averages about a minute with a best time of 37 seconds. He solved mine once, and he was using LBL with EO-EP-CP-CO LL and very little look ahead, but his TPS is incredible.



JanW said:


> I've never been to a cubing comp, but as a concert pianist I'm very familiar with performing complex finger work under pressure, and with how the hands feel like they behave very differently in such situations. This is something pretty much all professional musicians struggle with at some level. The most common advice is to do mental practice of the actual performance situation. For a musician, this means you envision the situation in your head, picture yourself walking out on the stage, taking a bow, seeing the audience, sitting down at the instrument and then play whatever whatever you are about to play. This way it is possible to recreate the same feeling of the performance situation to some degree. It doesn't always work, but sometimes I've managed to create the same shaky feeling in my hands in the comfort of my own home. If you can practice with that feeling, you can get used to it and learn how to handle it.



I'm hardly a professional, but as an amateur violinist I go the opposite direction: I visualize myself practicing at home when I'm performing.


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## MarcelP (Aug 2, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> The only way I can explain it is as a lapse in concentration. I don't know what I can do about that.



I hear cocaïne helps a lot in the concentration department.. LOL


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## newtonbase (Aug 2, 2016)

MarcelP said:


> I hear cocaïne helps a lot in the concentration department.. LOL


I did try Coco Cola but they don't put it in that any more.


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## bubbagrub (Aug 2, 2016)

Someone (Ollie, I think) once told me that bananas are good for reducing nerves... No idea if it's true... 

I did fine this past weekend that my 6x6 solve was one of the most enjoyable ones, because it felt so unpressured. It was the only solve I did where I had no nerves at all, and I'm sure that's because I knew I'd make the hard cut, knew I had no chance of making the soft cut, and put no pressure on myself. Maybe there's a way to manufacture that, somehow, for solves you do care about...


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## Logiqx (Aug 2, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> Yeah I can see the logic in that for the sport he talks about, although I'm not sure how it transposes to cubing. The problem is that my hands behave slightly differently on the day. I don't know how I would recreate those conditions in practice, and it's certainly hard to make my hands behave during comp like they do during practice.
> 
> More experienced cubers advise turning slower in comp and that makes a lot of sense. What feels like 80% speed under comp pressure is probably actually normal full speed anyway
> 
> Anyhow I'm definitely not using the GuoGuan in comp again. I don't need a faster cube and nothing about it will help me.


The connection I saw was how a competition environment changes your mental state and physiology. Where Travis was saying you might "pull harder" on the bike we have a tendency to turn faster which is generally a bad thing. It's a loose connection but the hardware also has analogies. A fast cube is akin to the well oiled bike he talked about and you either have to be careful with it in the comp or use something which requires more effort to operate.

@Shaky Hands: Thanks for the heads up re: Guilford

I've just Google bananas and it seems there may be something to it!

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk


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## newtonbase (Aug 2, 2016)

Given his accomplishments and his degree subject you'd have to believe it. But even if bananas don't have a physical effect as long as you convince yourself they do then the placebo effect should work. 

Another technique I've read about is to pinch yourself hard when you are in the zone and then, when you need to get back to that state, you pinch yourself in the same place. But that might be rubbish.


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## efattah (Aug 2, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> The subject of competition nerves is interesting. Of course the simplest way to relax is to not care but then why bother practicing, or even competing. I've been looking at freediving recently. These guys must be as good as anyone at relaxing before competing. They have to drop their heart rates before doing something incredibly hard and dangerous. Maybe @efattah could give us some tips? I know about the breathing side of it but would love to know more about the psychology of it.



Well when going for a record freedive, you are doing your final breathing while the judges are giving you a countdown from 2 minutes down to 0, at which point you only have 30 seconds to start the dive. As most divers are utterly terrified of the upcoming dive, and death is a significant possibility, it feels like the judges are counting down the seconds left in your life, and in some rare cases that turned out to be true. It is in this most extreme case that the solution to nerves becomes apparent. The answer was first scientifically discovered by the HeartMath institute but was found many times independently by other people. The answer is love. In that critical moment, you need to conjure love, which can be hard, but you must think of people you love and the support they have given you; think of hard times in your life when someone was there for you when you needed them the most. If you really concentrate on those memories you can brings yourself to tears of gratitude as you think of what could have happened to you had those people not been there for you when you needed them the most. Once you feel your eyes watering from love & gratitude, you will have long forgotten why you were nervous in the first place. You will be overwhelmed with a feeling of transcendent peace, and the 'zone' of perfect performance will overcome you, and many times you might find yourself outperforming even the best results of your personal practices. To understand it even better, you will realize that the defining moments in your life were those very same moments of great need when others were there for you, and that will put into perspective how non-important the current moment is; and all nervousness vanishes.

Eric Fattah
BC, Canada


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## mafergut (Aug 2, 2016)

efattah said:


> Well when going for a record freedive, you are doing your final breathing while the judges are giving you a countdown from 2 minutes down to 0, at which point you only have 30 seconds to start the dive. As most divers are utterly terrified of the upcoming dive, and death is a significant possibility, it feels like the judges are counting down the seconds left in your life, and in some rare cases that turned out to be true. It is in this most extreme case that the solution to nerves becomes apparent. The answer was first scientifically discovered by the HeartMath institute but was found many times independently by other people. The answer is love. In that critical moment, you need to conjure love, which can be hard, but you must think of people you love and the support they have given you; think of hard times in your life when someone was there for you when you needed them the most. If you really concentrate on those memories you can brings yourself to tears of gratitude as you think of what could have happened to you had those people not been there for you when you needed them the most. Once you feel your eyes watering from love & gratitude, you will have long forgotten why you were nervous in the first place. You will be overwhelmed with a feeling of transcendent peace, and the 'zone' of perfect performance will overcome you, and many times you might find yourself outperforming even the best results of your personal practices. To understand it even better, you will realize that the defining moments in your life were those very same moments of great need when others were there for you, and that will put into perspective how non-important the current moment is; and all nervousness vanishes.
> 
> Eric Fattah
> BC, Canada


So beautiful way of overcoming nerves... Thanks for sharing. But, to be honest, I can understand how that can be very useful and worthy for such a test as extreme freedive, where your life is at stake, I don't think a cubing comp is worthy of such an emotional rollercoaster, which, ironically, makes me also think how unimportant that moment is. Maybe if I just think of your story it would help a lot in putting nerves aside.


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## newtonbase (Aug 2, 2016)

efattah said:


> Well when going for a record freedive, you are doing your final breathing while the judges are giving you a countdown from 2 minutes down to 0, at which point you only have 30 seconds to start the dive. As most divers are utterly terrified of the upcoming dive, and death is a significant possibility, it feels like the judges are counting down the seconds left in your life, and in some rare cases that turned out to be true. It is in this most extreme case that the solution to nerves becomes apparent. The answer was first scientifically discovered by the HeartMath institute but was found many times independently by other people. The answer is love. In that critical moment, you need to conjure love, which can be hard, but you must think of people you love and the support they have given you; think of hard times in your life when someone was there for you when you needed them the most. If you really concentrate on those memories you can brings yourself to tears of gratitude as you think of what could have happened to you had those people not been there for you when you needed them the most. Once you feel your eyes watering from love & gratitude, you will have long forgotten why you were nervous in the first place. You will be overwhelmed with a feeling of transcendent peace, and the 'zone' of perfect performance will overcome you, and many times you might find yourself outperforming even the best results of your personal practices. To understand it even better, you will realize that the defining moments in your life were those very same moments of great need when others were there for you, and that will put into perspective how non-important the current moment is; and all nervousness vanishes.
> 
> Eric Fattah
> BC, Canada


Wow. That's not the answer I was expecting. Thanks @efattah


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## mark49152 (Aug 2, 2016)

Wow yes that's a bit over-dramatic for cubing, but I do think it helps to remind ourselves that it's only a hobby and nothing important depends on it. I sometimes wonder bemusedly why I get so nervous at comps given how trivial it really is.


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## SenorJuan (Aug 2, 2016)

As someone who suffers badly from nerves, it does seem odd that the trivial act of solving a plastic puzzle should cause so much stress. I think it's not as trivial as it must appear - you spend hours and hours practicing, learning, studying, warming up, getting in-the-zone for just a few seconds of opportunity. It IS actually important to you, at the time. 
My 'To Do' list before I compete again includes reading up on controlling nerves.


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## mafergut (Aug 2, 2016)

SenorJuan said:


> As someone who suffers badly from nerves, it does seem odd that the trivial act of solving a plastic puzzle should cause so much stress. I think it's not as trivial as it must appear - you spend hours and hours practicing, learning, studying, warming up, getting in-the-zone for just a few seconds of opportunity. It IS actually important to you, at the time.
> My 'To Do' list before I compete again includes reading up on controlling nerves.


Fully agree with this. Sadly I also have lots of problems with controlling nervousness myself.

By the way, for the statistics trivia lover in me, in the middle of a horrible warm-up session, this Ao5 came out of nowhere:

3x3 Ao5: (20.61), (15.75), 16.46, 16.91, 16.69 = 16.69

It is not my best, just in the top ten, but it happens to have the best worst counting solve of any Ao5 I have on record. I had never recorder an Ao5 with all counting solves sub-17 and the pity is that I lost at least 3 tenths before stopping the timer on that 16.91 so it could have been easy a mid-16.

What does this have to do with nerves, you say? I saw the streak of sub-17 solves, tried to roll the Ao5, locked up all over the place, got a 25.xx. Nothing more to say


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## Selkie (Aug 2, 2016)

Been away for a long weekend at a Volkswagen festival, another of my hobbies. This was the reason I was unable to make Maccelsfield, so...

Firstly huge congratulations to to those representing the oldies at Maccelsfield. I see lots and lots of PBs which is awesome stuff and chuffed to see the 5x5 BLD success @mark49152 .

I see Guildford early October is now official and I can confirm I will definitely be there but at this stage it looks like it might be only the Sunday as we have a family birthday to attend on the Saturday near Oxford.

Although we were away camping managed to get lots of untimed 7x7 practice in so going to do an Ao5 shortly to see what times are like. Also have to catch up on the thread and push forward with the 4x4


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## mark49152 (Aug 2, 2016)

Thanks @Selkie, hope to see you in Guildford!


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## Jason Green (Aug 2, 2016)

@Selkie, maybe you should film some practice.


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## Selkie (Aug 2, 2016)

Indeed @Jason Green , I haven't uploaded anything to my YT channel in a few months. Will try and get round to some 4x4 or 7x7 filming tomorrow


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## efattah (Aug 2, 2016)

mafergut said:


> So beautiful way of overcoming nerves... Thanks for sharing. But, to be honest, I can understand how that can be very useful and worthy for such a test as extreme freedive, where your life is at stake, I don't think a cubing comp is worthy of such an emotional rollercoaster, which, ironically, makes me also think how unimportant that moment is. Maybe if I just think of your story it would help a lot in putting nerves aside.



Well, there are more 'mundane' ways to overcome nerves, and again, the world-wide community of competitive freedivers have developed so many methods I can't even list them all here. One example relies mostly on balancing your electrolytes:
- 60-90min before the performance, eat 1 fresh banana (=potassium) with a tall glass of *whole* (full fat) milk (=calcium + soothing fat), and take 1000mg of supplemental magnesium
- After eating that, use the Stress Doctor app for 20 minutes if possible (this is a biofeedback of your pulse that allows you to control your breathing to stimulate your parasympathetic nervous system and it works like a miracle; there used to be a device called the stress eraser, even better, but it is discontinued)
- Thirty minutes before the performance, drink an intense (strong) cup of holy basil tea (herbal relaxant)
- Just before solving, follow the brain oxygenation trick I posted in another thread (close your eyes, inhale to the max hold for 5 seconds, exhale slowly, inhale to the max, hold 5 seconds, for a total of 5 breaths with eyes closed). Then open eyes and solve.


Eric Fattah
BC, Canada


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## mark49152 (Aug 2, 2016)

Maybe I will try all that before my next MBLD.


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## Lid (Aug 2, 2016)

I'm all stickerless now! http://imgur.com/tNMU5PL



Spoiler: Puzzle list



7x7: MoYu AoFu GT
6x6: YuXin
5x5: YuXin
4x4: Cyclone Boys G4
3x3: GuoGuan YueXiao
OH: DaYan LingYun v1
2x2: MoYu WeiPo
Clock: Rubik's ...
Mega: X-man Galaxy Sculpture
Pyra: QiYi
Skewb: QiYi
Sq1: QiYi


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## h2f (Aug 2, 2016)

Lid said:


> I'm all stickerless now! http://imgur.com/tNMU5PL
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Awsome. I was thiking about buying new Thunderclap in stickerless version, but decided to buy black and white. Guess which one is for my son?  I'll buy stickerless next time. I'm big fun of stickerless MFG minx - today I did first sub4.


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## Jason Green (Aug 2, 2016)

efattah said:


> Well, there are more 'mundane' ways to overcome nerves, and again, the world-wide community of competitive freedivers have developed so many methods I can't even list them all here. One example relies mostly on balancing your electrolytes:
> - 60-90min before the performance, eat 1 fresh banana (=potassium) with a tall glass of *whole* (full fat) milk (=calcium + soothing fat), and take 1000mg of supplemental magnesium
> - After eating that, use the Stress Doctor app for 20 minutes if possible (this is a biofeedback of your pulse that allows you to control your breathing to stimulate your parasympathetic nervous system and it works like a miracle; there used to be a device called the stress eraser, even better, but it is discontinued)
> - Thirty minutes before the performance, drink an intense (strong) cup of holy basil tea (herbal relaxant)
> ...



If I tried this it would probably go something like this:
- About 75 minutes before event I would realize I did not have whole milk, so I would run to the gas station next door.
- When they were sold out of whole milk, I would run back, get in my car, and drive down the street to Walmart.
- I would get back to comp, somewhat stressed, but with still 45 minutes to go, so I'd think I'm ok.
- Then I would realize I downloaded the Stress Doctor on my wife's phone, and the Wifi would most certainly suck, and I'd be frantically trying to download the app. I would get it finally and listen for about 20 minutes.
- Finally it would be time for my tea. After digging around in my bag for some time I would realize I left it sitting on the counter in the kitchen.
- I'd definitely go for the deep breathing at that point.


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## Chree (Aug 2, 2016)

My own personal solution to nerves: try not caring at all.

Not always easy.


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## moralsh (Aug 2, 2016)

Just bested my PB in one of the few timed solves I've done while on holiday, 12.63 now.

I'll post the scramble once I get home next week


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## newtonbase (Aug 3, 2016)

I was incredibly nervous about my driving test and then locked the keys in the car just before it started. My instructor managed to get in just in time which was a huge relief. Nerves gone. Test passed.


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## mark49152 (Aug 3, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> I was incredibly nervous about my driving test and then locked the keys in the car just before it started. My instructor managed to get in just in time which was a huge relief. Nerves gone. Test passed.


I was nervous on my driving test. I got to the very first junction and the examiner said nothing. I wondered, why hasn't he said anything? I paused a few seconds at the junction then asked, "which way do you want me to go?" And he replied: "it's a one-way street."


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## mafergut (Aug 3, 2016)

Talking about driving test, sure I can remember I was nervous. So nervous I was going a bit too slow but in the end I managed to pass on 1st try, which was a relief. But the two occassions I remember I was really nervous were when I had to defend my "end of bachelor's degree" project (I did not get a PhD but it's the same experience) and the first time I had to talk in front of an audience (it was a technical white paper presentation on a conference). And nothing worked before those two experiences... until after 2-3 minutes into the thik of it, that's when I realize that it's not such a big deal and I start to relax and get my confidence back. No need to imagine the audience in underwear or anything like that 

By the way, yesterday I got two very nice 3x3 singles:

12.25 F' U' R' L U L' U2 L' B D R2 B L2 B R2 U2 F B R2

If I had not freaked when I saw the PLL skip and taken too much time to AUF and stop the timer it could have been a high 11. My best timed solve in 6 months and my second best overall.

13.65 F' R F2 B U' L B R D R' U2 D2 F R2 D2 F B2 L2 F U2

And a dozen solves later this full step. It's not terribly good, maybe in my top 30-40 solves but I checked the timer before PLL and it was changing from 10 to 11 so, had I gotten the PLL skip on this it would have been PB for sure.


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## h2f (Aug 3, 2016)

I've read about your tests but I havent got any story to tell about it.

Going back to cubing - new Thunderclap has no nice first impressions. I feel it will change after breaking in the cube.


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## Selkie (Aug 3, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> I was incredibly nervous about my driving test and then locked the keys in the car just before it started. My instructor managed to get in just in time which was a huge relief. Nerves gone. Test passed.





mark49152 said:


> I was nervous on my driving test. I got to the very first junction and the examiner said nothing. I wondered, why hasn't he said anything? I paused a few seconds at the junction then asked, "which way do you want me to go?" And he replied: "it's a one-way street."



I was also very nervous on my driving test nearly ... erm ... thirty year ago! Wow, I am old 

But I forgot my glasses and memorised five number plates in the right range hoping the tester would pick one of those, they luckily did but I thought I recalled it incorrectly so thought I had failed anyway. Relaxed completely just wanting to get it over with. Passed


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## JanW (Aug 3, 2016)

Hahah, driving tests... that was a while ago. I actually failed my first one, but in hindsight this was a good thing. Upon failure, I was assigned a certain amount of extra lessons before retaking the test. As I took those lessons with another driving instructor, I learned that my first instructor had been really really bad. The reason I was so nervous going into the first test and got so many red marks was that my instructor hadn't taught me how to do things properly. He was mainly sitting next to me waiting for retirement, not commenting much at all on anything I did. The new instructor was a lot more demanding, corrected almost everything I did from the first lesson, and after a few lessons with him I was a lot more confident. Passed second test without any remarks.


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## Shaky Hands (Aug 3, 2016)

My first driving test was failed by the same guy who failed my sister nearly 10 years before me. I ended up passing on a test that I was expecting to be cancelled as the town was virtually flooded on that day.

No expectation = no nerves?


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## mafergut (Aug 3, 2016)

Lid said:


> I'm all stickerless now! http://imgur.com/tNMU5PL



What a nice set of puzzles. I regret having bought the stickered Aofu GT instead of the stickerless. I'm still missing quite a few to get a full collection like that (Pyra, SQ-1, Mega, 3x3 and the mentioned 7x7). Well, and clock, which I just don't have 

By the way, another nice single (OLL skip):
13.07 R U2 R' F2 L2 F2 D2 L B2 L' F' U' F2 U R' U F' D' U' B'

And a bunch of 21 to 24 and even 25-26 sec solves as well. I'm so inconsistent lately...


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## teacher77 (Aug 3, 2016)

Hey I just improved my PB by a whole second, down to 28.52 s ! I was quite lucky with the F2L though, as a pair was formed right when I finished the cross and the three others happened to all be among the cases that I can do without cube rotations. But no OLL/PLL skips whatsoever !


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## mafergut (Aug 3, 2016)

What is happening this week?

I seem to be getting lots of mediocre averages, a bunch of terrible solves (and not all of them on non-white/yellow cross, sadly) and also some very nice singles.

New PB single by 0.30 sec with PLL skip (and an easy to preserve pair during cross, but not technically an x-cross)

11.50 B' F2 L' F2 L2 D2 U2 R' D2 B2 D2 R2 D' R2 D' F' D2 B' R2 U


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## muchacho (Aug 3, 2016)

Congrats, what cube are you using now?


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## mafergut (Aug 3, 2016)

All these singles were done on a Moyu Hualong but I have not completely discarded the Yuexiao just yet. I can't seem to find the perfect cube and it might be that the Hualong is partly the cause of the inconsistent times I'm getting lately.


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## Selkie (Aug 3, 2016)

So today I set out to get a sub 1 minute 4x4 Ao5 on film but failed miserably. Best Ao5 was not even sub 1:01. I will try again tomorrow since I have not uploaded to my YouTube channel in 3 months! Got some nice singles and seem to be gettign regular sub 55 solves now.

I have however just got a PB Mo3 for 6x6 and edging closer to sub 4 

Mean of 3: 4:08.98
1. 4:02.11 
2. 4:17.06 
3. 4:07.78


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## mafergut (Aug 3, 2016)

If somebody was trying the 11.50 scramble and thinking how on earth I got a PLL skip I tried to reconstruct and it took me a while until I realized I had made a stupid mistake during cross. Without that mistake and others it could have been a sub-10 but, again, without that mistake it would have ended on a U-perm so probably the final time would have been similar or worse.

Now that I have the reconstruction I'm ashamed that this execution disaster is actually my PB single:



Spoiler: Reconstruction



11.50 B' F2 L' F2 L2 D2 U2 R' D2 B2 D2 R2 D' R2 D' F' D2 B' R2 U
z2 // Inspection
D R' B' R2 y' R U' R' // Cross + preserve pair, but made a mistake at the end (7/40)
U2 L' U L // F2L#1 I had planned up to here in inspection so I took the green-white edge for a trip  (11/40)
U2 R2 R' U R U' R U R' // Fix cross, realize I had an easy pair, waste a move, F2L#2 (20/40)
R' U' R // F2L#3 (didn't see it fast enough to combine both pairs as R U R2 U' R) (23/40)
y' L' U' L U L' U' L // F2L#4 (30/40)
U r U R' U' r' F R F' // OLL (39/40)
U // AUF + PLL skip (40/40)

TPS = 40 / 11.50 = 3.48 TPS // The crappy TPS does not lie. This was all luck and barely any skill involved


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## sqAree (Aug 3, 2016)

mafergut said:


> If somebody has tried the 11.50 scramble and thinking how on earth did I get a PLL skip I tried to reconstruct and took a while until I realized I had made a stupid mistake during cross. Without that mistake and others it could have been a sub-10 but, again, without that mistake it would have ended on a U-perm so probable the final time would have been similar or worse.
> 
> Now that I have the reconstruction I'm ashamed that this execution disaster is actually my PB single:
> 
> ...



pb singles are supposed to be luck after all.  I can totally feel you though, as most of my sub12 solves had similar crappy executions.
Also, I learnt something from your 2nd F2L pair, I used to solve that case much more inefficiently. ._.


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## mafergut (Aug 3, 2016)

sqAree said:


> pb singles are supposed to be luck after all.  I can totally feel you though, as most of my sub12 solves had similar crappy executions.
> Also, I learnt something from your 2nd F2L pair, I used to solve that case much more inefficiently. ._.


Thanks! I feel a bit better now.  Regarding F2L cases I should watch many more example solve videos and do less timed solves. It would be probably good for my efficiency. I have started to do it, though, and learned a couple tricks here and there but still so far from efficient.


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## sqAree (Aug 3, 2016)

mafergut said:


> Thanks! I feel a bit better now.  Regarding F2L cases I should watch many more example solve videos and do less timed solves. It would be probably good for my efficiency. I have started to do it, though, and learned a couple tricks here and there but still so far from efficient.



I don't know where to find mass example solve videos and I never do untimed solves admittedly. But I suspect that my greatest weakness is the cross anyway, because I still don't plan the whole cross in inspection. ._.

Regarding your 2nd pair, that was the case I struggled the most with. In the beginning I would do y' U R' U R U' y U' R U2 R' U2 R U' R' (with edge and corner in UF and URF) if the back slot is already solved. Then I came across a really "awesome" alternate alg: R B L U' L' B' R' that is actually quite fast. But for OH solving I needed a replacement, so I discovered R U2 R' U R U R' U R U' R' and later switched to that for 2H too, because the B moves disturbed my flow. Then, if the back slot was free I would just do R' U R U' R U2 R' U2 R U' R' but it was never satisfying as it's the same length as the other alg.
U' R' U R U' R U R' is so much better, thank you!


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## chtiger (Aug 3, 2016)

Inspired by the recent 5BLD successes of mark49152 and moralsh, I ordered a 5x5. Might just try 5BLD without ever learning regular 5x5.

I also tried a 10 cube MBLD even though I've only tried 8 once and haven't done a MBLD since February. It was bad as expected, 3/10 1:10:xx, but mainly just wanted to know if it would be possible, and I think it is (at home, maybe not at comp). I've got a plan to revamp my edge memo, which will help, just need to stop putting it off and do it.


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## SenorJuan (Aug 3, 2016)

Regarding the "2nd F2L slot solve".
There's also the BR slot choice of
U' R U R2 U' R

( and for those FMC types amongst you, there's U' F R2 F' R2 )


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## newtonbase (Aug 3, 2016)

Had a good session working on my letter pairs list today. My wife helped out with suggestions and with writing them down while I was driving. A to D done with a few gaps. I started fresh without consulting previous notes. I plan to go through every pair on the _famous people by initials_ web page I found too.


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## bubbagrub (Aug 3, 2016)

@mark49152

Guildford schedule: All events except for Fewest Moves, Feet, BigBld, MultiBld... :-(


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## mark49152 (Aug 3, 2016)

bubbagrub said:


> Guildford schedule: All events except for Fewest Moves, Feet, BigBld, MultiBld... :-(


Yeah I saw that . I'm waiting for the schedule. If there's multiple rounds of 3BLD I might go, otherwise I might give this one a miss.


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## newtonbase (Aug 3, 2016)

I 


mark49152 said:


> Yeah I saw that . I'm waiting for the schedule. If there's multiple rounds of 3BLD I might go, otherwise I might give this one a miss.


Was about to post that I didn't think we'd see you there @mark49152 but my battery died. I'll try to go for the Saturday if they are doing 3BLD but I don't fancy risking Sunday traffic on the M25.


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## Shaky Hands (Aug 4, 2016)

It might be worth requesting multiple rounds before they finalise a schedule.


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## mark49152 (Aug 4, 2016)

Shaky Hands said:


> It might be worth requesting multiple rounds before they finalise a schedule.


The organisers do put thought into varying and balancing events between comps to keep everyone happy, and blind fans have been well catered for at Macc and Sheffield, so I'm not going to complain.

IIRC, Cambridge in December was the only comp since I started competing a year ago that had neither big nor multi, and they had two rounds of 3BLD. And no 2x2


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## Selkie (Aug 4, 2016)

Be a pity if we didn't see you there @mark49152 but completely understandable given distance and the lack of big blind. Fingers crossed for multi BLD rounds.

Looks like I will only make the Sunday as the family birthday on the Saturday is unavoidable due to the venue being booked for my aunts 80th Birthday. 3x3 is usually day 2. The other two events I would love to see on day 2 are 4x4 and 6x6 but as usual will be great to meet up and take part anyway. I hope to make one more comp this year which may well be UK Open in November?

Going to try again to get a sub 1 4x4 average on film but failing that maybe a low 6x6 mean.


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## Shaky Hands (Aug 4, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> And no 2x2



Last thing I'd miss at a comp. I'm on record as saying I prefer Clock.


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## Selkie (Aug 4, 2016)

Selkie said:


> Going to try again to get a sub 1 4x4 average on film but failing that maybe a low 6x6 mean.



4x4
Average of 5: 59.66
1. 57.74 U B' U' R u' B R2 u' L r' U L' D' F' B D f D' F' r2 B' D' U2 R L' U' F2 R L' B2 D L r R' D2 r' B2 D r' U' 
2. (53.48) U2 u r D' f' u' F' R2 U2 B2 r f B2 L' u2 f' R2 r F2 R2 B' f' R2 B' R' r2 D F L U2 R2 U2 r R2 u' r U' D' R' D2 
3. 1:04.33 R2 r2 f u2 L2 D' U f' D B' L U R2 r' F' L2 R' r2 U2 D f' u f' B2 r2 u2 R U r' B R D u' L D R2 F D L' U' 
4. (1:10.42) L' R' u' U2 L' R' D2 L2 D2 r' U R2 U D' u f2 F D f R2 B' U' D' u r' u' F B' L' B' F L u2 U F2 L f2 r2 D2 u 
5. 56.91 L' u2 U' f' D L U2 R2 u2 D L2 u2 L2 R F2 f2 L' B' U L' B2 D r' D F B2 f2 L D' B' r2 R' F U f2 F r u2 r f 

On film, will upload soon. A counting 1:04 too!


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## One Wheel (Aug 4, 2016)

I've been watching for a comp I could make it to, and finally there is one in a month. Problem is that other than no 2x2 I think they pretty much took the events I can't do or don't care to. I think with a lot of work I could make the 4:00 hard cut for feet, and it's hard to say after only a couple dozen solves but I wouldn't be shocked if I could make the 2:30 soft cut. What's the chance I can learn blind in a month? 15 minute combined time limit seems like enough that if I can do it I should be able to get at least two solves in. Cuts are the same for megaminx as for feet. I did a pretty good MM solve for me last night: sub - 8:00 just barely. I'd love to do 7x7, but I don't have one and the 6:00/8:00 cuts are about where I could put a lot of work into 6x6 and have a chance of at least making the hard cut and a slim chance of making the soft cut.


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## mafergut (Aug 4, 2016)

Tough decision and tough cuts! Anyway, if you can go I'd say go! 
Happy for my 1st success at 2x2 race to sub-5


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## Shaky Hands (Aug 4, 2016)

@One Wheel, I suggest you go anyway if you can. Enter everything you can solve for the experience and don't worry about your times (I was averaging 50s at 3x3 at my first comp.) Other people are far more knowledgeable about BLD here than me but yes I suspect you can learn BLD in a month with the correct amount of practice.


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## Selkie (Aug 4, 2016)

4x4
Average of 5: 59.66
1. 57.74 U B' U' R u' B R2 u' L r' U L' D' F' B D f D' F' r2 B' D' U2 R L' U' F2 R L' B2 D L r R' D2 r' B2 D r' U' 
2. (53.48) U2 u r D' f' u' F' R2 U2 B2 r f B2 L' u2 f' R2 r F2 R2 B' f' R2 B' R' r2 D F L U2 R2 U2 r R2 u' r U' D' R' D2 
3. 1:04.33 R2 r2 f u2 L2 D' U f' D B' L U R2 r' F' L2 R' r2 U2 D f' u f' B2 r2 u2 R U r' B R D u' L D R2 F D L' U' 
4. (1:10.42) L' R' u' U2 L' R' D2 L2 D2 r' U R2 U D' u f2 F D f R2 B' U' D' u r' u' F B' L' B' F L u2 U F2 L f2 r2 D2 u 
5. 56.91 L' u2 U' f' D L U2 R2 u2 D L2 u2 L2 R F2 f2 L' B' U L' B2 D r' D F B2 f2 L D' B' r2 R' F U f2 F r u2 r f


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## newtonbase (Aug 4, 2016)

@One Wheel Blind is possible in a month but you will take a hit on your practice time for other events. 15 minutes is a generous time limit. 
As Andy says, go for the experience. The times you set are targets to beat for the next comp so it doesn't matter if they are slow.


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## Selkie (Aug 4, 2016)

@One Wheel , like the others I would always recommend going to a competition. Irresppective of the events themselves it is amazing how much information and motivation you will gain by meeting with, discussing and cubing with other cubers. That time alone is invaluable


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## One Wheel (Aug 4, 2016)

Thanks! That's pretty much the advice I was expecting. I presume it's not worth signing up for events I have no chance of making the hard cut for, like megaminx?

I'm not sure how much time I'll have to practice in the next month either. Usually I'm the only one around here but my dad, brother and sister will be around. I should have ample time the last week before the comp, but the next three weeks not so much.


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## mafergut (Aug 4, 2016)

Selkie said:


> 4x4
> Average of 5: 59.66
> 1. 57.74 U B' U' R u' B R2 u' L r' U L' D' F' B D f D' F' r2 B' D' U2 R L' U' F2 R L' B2 D L r R' D2 r' B2 D r' U'
> 2. (53.48) U2 u r D' f' u' F' R2 U2 B2 r f B2 L' u2 f' R2 r F2 R2 B' f' R2 B' R' r2 D F L U2 R2 U2 r R2 u' r U' D' R' D2
> ...


What!?! I stopped the video on the second solve when I think you finished reduction and it was like 37.95. You didn't get any parity and it was an easy LL with a T OLL and U perm (if I've seen it right) but, c'mon! A 15.xx second 3x3 stage is insane! Even taking into account that the cross is already done.

And I still ask myself why I can't sub-1 on 4x4. Even without any parities I can barely sub 1:10. I thought my reduction stage (using Yau) was mostly at fault but now I realize that probably half of the time I would need to cut to get there is on 3x3 stage.

Great solves! It looks like, comparing with your 3x3 lookahead, you still could shave 5 seconds or more off your reduction stage with more practice. What's your PB? Sub-45 seems within reach for you.

EDIT: Forget about what I said of the 2nd solve. That last one has a 10.xx second 3x3 stage!!!! Did you get an OLL skip? I can't see very well what you were doing.


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## mark49152 (Aug 4, 2016)

@Selkie , very nice. Next race? 

@One Wheel , I will echo others and say go anyway, and yes you can learn BLD in a month if you approach it methodically. My suggestion would be:-

- Week 1, learn a BLD method but do only sighted solves with it. Watch how it works and practise until you're comfortable solving the cube that way. Most popular method seems to be M2/OP.

- Week 2, learn a letter scheme and get used to solving by writing down your letter sequences then solving under the table reading off paper.

- Weeks 3+, learn a memory technique and put it all together.

Edit: I wasn't interested in BLD until I went to my first comp and saw others doing it. So I went home and learned, and got my first official success at the next comp 3 weeks later. So yes you have enough time.


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## h2f (Aug 4, 2016)

@Selkie, very nice average. Add me to the reace to sub1 tough I have the largest distance to it.


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## muchacho (Aug 4, 2016)

Very nice solves... but you got me scared when I saw a block of dead pixels in my monitor  is the camera ok?


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## mark49152 (Aug 4, 2016)

h2f said:


> @Selkie, very nice average. Add me to the reace to sub1 tough I have the largest distance to it.


I'll race you to second place: )


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## h2f (Aug 4, 2016)

Ok than. But i can start next weekend - I'm out of home for a next 6-7 days.


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## Shaky Hands (Aug 4, 2016)

Got my 2nd-best ever time earlier (17.66) - may have been my best but I missed the timer (was definitely sub-17 when I went for it.) Nothing funky in the way I solved it (it even had a 9-move cross); this one just seemed to flow really well.

Scramble: U2 L2 F2 U2 R2 U2 F D2 B' R2 F2 U R D2 F2 L D' R B' D' U2

Solution:


Spoiler



x2 // inspection
U' R2 U2 F U F L B L // cross
R U R' F' U2 F2 U F' // F2L - 1
L U L' // F2L - 2
R U2 R' U R U R' // F2L - 3
y d' L' U L d R U' R' // F2L - 4
L' U' L U' L' U L U L F' L' F // OLL
R U R' F' R U R' U' R' F R2 U' R' // J-perm
U' // AUF


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## SenorJuan (Aug 4, 2016)

Congrats on the speedy solve, Andy.
Is that your normal approach to F2L-1 ?
A neater way would be:
U' R U R' y' R U R'
or
U' R U R' F U F' (which as luck would have it, gives L U L' then F' U F for the next two...)


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## Shaky Hands (Aug 4, 2016)

Yeah that's pretty much my usual approach with that one. Makes me think I should learn some F2L algs some time.


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## SenorJuan (Aug 4, 2016)

That solution I suggested was an 'intuitive' one - make the pair, then insert. So the 'algs' you would need to learn are:
*moving an edge up to the top layer to match with a corner
*moving a corner up to the top layer to match with an edge
There's typically 20 of these small (3-move usually) algs for each of those two processes, a few more if you include 'sledgehammer-based' ones. 
And double that, as you'll want to be able to duplicate them in a diagonally opposite corner.

I'm not sure how many of them I know, about 70%, seems enough to cover most eventualities.


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## Selkie (Aug 4, 2016)

@mafergut , @mark49152 , @h2f , @muchacho - Thank you very much.

@mafergut , Migual - I average just sub 1:05 (Ao50) of that I think I average ~45s reduction and ~20s for 3x3 stage to include parities. PB is 48.39. I try and plan 1 1/2 centers during inspection now rather than 1. I still have little look ahead from F2C to first three Yau cross edges and those three edges are still the weak part of my solve. I still feel there is more in the tank for improvement though.

@Shaky Hands - Nice single mate and as you say nothing simple about the solve, no skips, no easy cross. Very nice


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## Selkie (Aug 4, 2016)

And to cap off a good day on return to YouTube uploading, my first sub 4 minute 6x6 Mo3 

Mean Of 3: 3:58.36 - 4:00.39, 3:45.45, 4:09.24


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## Jason Green (Aug 4, 2016)

One Wheel said:


> Thanks! That's pretty much the advice I was expecting. I presume it's not worth signing up for events I have no chance of making the hard cut for, like megaminx?
> 
> I'm not sure how much time I'll have to practice in the next month either. Usually I'm the only one around here but my dad, brother and sister will be around. I should have ample time the last week before the comp, but the next three weeks not so much.


I sign up for everything I can solve, even if I can't make the hard cut. I did that for 5x5 at last comp. I think I'll make hard cut for the next 5x5. 


h2f said:


> @Selkie, very nice average. Add me to the reace to sub1 tough I have the largest distance to it.


Ummmm, I think I'm furthest, but I'm not racing.  I'm still barely under 2 mins.


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## mafergut (Aug 4, 2016)

Jason Green said:


> I sign up for everything I can solve, even if I can't make the hard cut. I did that for 5x5 at last comp. I think I'll make hard cut for the next 5x5.
> 
> Ummmm, I think I'm furthest, but I'm not racing.  I'm still barely under 2 mins.


Yeah, I don't plan on joining the race to sub-1 4x4 any time soon. I'm fighting for every second below sub-1:25 average right now.
And regarding the comp I'd do the same, sign up for whatever I have the puzzle for (and at least know how to solve, so I wouldn't sign up for SQ-1 right now)


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## Shaky Hands (Aug 4, 2016)

Selkie said:


> And to cap off a good day on return to YouTube uploading, my first sub 4 minute 6x6 Mo3
> 
> Mean Of 3: 3:58.36 - 4:00.39, 3:45.45, 4:09.24



Good stuff @Selkie. I just got a PB single on 6x6 in the Weekly Comp myself but 50%+ over these times.


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## One Wheel (Aug 4, 2016)

Jason Green said:


> I sign up for everything I can solve, even if I can't make the hard cut. I did that for 5x5 at last comp. I think I'll make hard cut for the next 5x5



I might just do that. I was sure I had no chance of making 4:00, because I was averaging about 9:00, then I did mm for the wc and started with 3 solves around 8:00, and finished with a sub-7:00 and then a sub-6:00. With that kind of improvement 2:30 still seems ridiculous, but in my more delirious moments 4:00 seems possible.


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## Selkie (Aug 4, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> @Selkie , very nice. Next race?



Sub 1 Ao12 on 4x4 / Sub 2 Ao5 5x5? 



mafergut said:


> Yeah, I don't plan on joining the race to sub-1 4x4 any time soon. I'm fighting for every second below sub-1:25 average right now.



I was stuck at 1:15 for so long, years. And the fact I missed 4x4 at Exeter this yearmy fastest official 4x4 average is 1:15.xy I think. Plateaus are so frustrating but hopefully you will see a drop from 1:25 soon


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## mark49152 (Aug 5, 2016)

Selkie said:


> Sub 1 Ao12 on 4x4 / Sub 2 Ao5 5x5?


I am still shooting for ao5 on 4x4 so let's do some 5x5? I'm motivated after getting three sub-2 singles in one day


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## Shaky Hands (Aug 5, 2016)

It's been a while since I practiced 7x7, but my average has improved by 47 seconds between the last Weekly Competition I did (7 weeks ago) and now. I think I can probably reach the UK hard cut for this by the end of 2016. Encouraging.

I have a general question which I guess applies to all puzzles but particularly to big cubes. When you can't find a piece you're looking for (whatever the reason) do you tend to persist in finding it as you know it's there somewhere, or do you search for alternatives?


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## Selkie (Aug 5, 2016)

Shaky Hands said:


> It's been a while since I practiced 7x7, but my average has improved by 47 seconds between the last Weekly Competition I did (7 weeks ago) and now. I think I can probably reach the UK hard cut for this by the end of 2016. Encouraging.
> 
> I have a general question which I guess applies to all puzzles but particularly to big cubes. When you can't find a piece you're looking for (whatever the reason) do you tend to persist in finding it as you know it's there somewhere, or do you search for alternatives?



Sorry up loitering but my excuse is we have a long weekend this weekend (Fri-Mon off) so up late 

Andy, this is a great question and one I ask myself all the time, ALL the time. To me it depends on the piece. I have ruined great solves with the dreaded "Rabbit in the headlights" mate. Take a look at my mo3 6x6 video yesterday, it happens for all edge pairings, I am not pauseless for any of them. But I guess you are asking about that one you come across where you just cant find it.

For the question of time spent, if I am looking for 1/4 and I have 3/4 I tend to give it too much time. 2/4 to 2/4 I am easier to switch to look for something else. A few pointers that work for me mate:-

Edge pairing: Work on your 4 cross edges first (You are so used to looking for these edges)
Edge Pairing: Work On Your Opposite Edges Next
Are there any stages in particular you are looking at?

PS: Bristol: Im up often, thought you were London. Perhaps a cube meet


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## mark49152 (Aug 5, 2016)

Shaky Hands said:


> I have a general question which I guess applies to all puzzles but particularly to big cubes. When you can't find a piece you're looking for (whatever the reason) do you tend to persist in finding it as you know it's there somewhere, or do you search for alternatives?


Depends on the situation, but I have deliberately chosen my methods to make it easier, either to find pieces by having a smaller set of pieces to search and/or the search space more visible, or to let me solve the first thing I see rather than specific pieces.

Take 5x5. I use Hoya and during cross I solve one piece at a timee, solving the first cross piece that I see and keeping going that way, in any order. Only on the last piece am I looking for that one specific piece.

On pairing the other edges, I am usually looking for a specific piece, but I have the bottom and back slots filled so my search space is all easily visible without rotation and I use a pairing method that requires me to search for midges not wings, so there are only seven spots I have to scan.


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## teacher77 (Aug 5, 2016)

mafergut said:


> If somebody was trying the 11.50 scramble and thinking how on earth I got a PLL skip I tried to reconstruct and it took me a while until I realized I had made a stupid mistake during cross. Without that mistake and others it could have been a sub-10 but, again, without that mistake it would have ended on a U-perm so probably the final time would have been similar or worse.
> 
> Now that I have the reconstruction I'm ashamed that this execution disaster is actually my PB single:



To me this sounds like an amazing solve  I just tried the same scramble in VERY SLOW motion and still used 72 moves instead of 40... oh and at least 3 more cube rotations than you did 

Technical question : how do you figure out reconstructions ? Is it based on a video or your memory of your solve ?

Second rookie question : for your fourth pair, I would have used y'F'LFL'F'LFL'. Since it's a trigger reapeated twice I can perform it fast and tend to use that strategy (this alg or its mirror) all the time when I have edge on U + corner on D with white sticker and edge on the same face. Can anyone discuss if this is a good strategy or bound to be slow in the long run ?

P.S. Talking about luck : my new 24.95 s PB happened with an OLL/PLL skip. What are the chances of that ?!?


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## Jason Green (Aug 5, 2016)

teacher77 said:


> To me this sounds like an amazing solve  I just tried the same scramble in VERY SLOW motion and still used 72 moves and at least 3 more cube rotations than you did
> 
> Technical question : how do you figure out reconstructions ? Is it based on a video or your memory of your solve ?


Typically memory. I have only reconstructed a couple including my amazingly lucky pb of 12.83.  Normally it's easy to find the cross you started with, and from there not too hard to remember what came next. It's kind of fun you should try it.

Btw, I tried my pb a few times and I think the best I could manage was like 11 seconds, and that's basically knowing the whole solve. Of course I remember a time when I practiced someone's easy scramble and couldn't break 16. This was a while back, maybe I should look it up and see if I'm faster.


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## teacher77 (Aug 5, 2016)

Hey everyone, I'm currently switching from 2look PLL to 1look PLL and I'm having a hard time with recognition more than alg memorization. Is there any way (apps ?) to practice recognition other than just solving full cubes ? I find solving inefficient as some cases only show up once in a day so it hardly does anything to get things in my brain... Can some of you please tell me how you first did it ?


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## Jason Green (Aug 5, 2016)

teacher77 said:


> Hey everyone, I'm currently switching from 2look PLL to 1look PLL and I'm having a hard time with recognition more than alg memorization. Is there any way (apps ?) to practice recognition other than just solving full cubes ? I find solving inefficient as some cases only show up once in a day so it hardly does anything to get things in my brain... Can some of you please tell me how you first did it ?


I think there are apps, some written by guys here. I would actually just drill the alg on a solved cube. If my f2l was not messed up then I basically knew I did it right and I'd keep going. If I messed up I would solve the cube and start over. Some of them if you do twice it solves the cube again, others you can do multiple times and it will re-solve the cube (all I think?).


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## mark49152 (Aug 5, 2016)

teacher77 said:


> Hey everyone, I'm currently switching from 2look PLL to 1look PLL and I'm having a hard time with recognition more than alg memorization. Is there any way (apps ?) to practice recognition other than just solving full cubes ? I find solving inefficient as some cases only show up once in a day so it hardly does anything to get things in my brain... Can some of you please tell me how you first did it ?


I learned quite early to recognise from two sides only, because it's faster, and in the long run that's what you'll want. I put together the guide linked below. In there is also a link to Rishi's tool I used for practising recognition. 

https://www.speedsolving.com/forum/threads/two-sided-pll-recognition-guide.41108/

Having said that, you do need a basic knowledge of the overall patterns on all four sides first, and I can't think of a good resource for that, beyond things like the pictures on the wiki. For example, the two sided guide doesn't distinguish between mirrored cases like Ja and Jb so you need to learn which is which. And you need to learn how to orient the case for execution, which will be helped by knowing what's on the back sides even though you only recognise from the front. 

It might be more advanced than you were looking for, but anyway, Rishi's tool is what I used for practice.


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## Shaky Hands (Aug 5, 2016)

@Selkie @mark49152 - thanks both, very useful advice.

@Selkie, moved from London to Bristol in 2014 before I started cubing. Happy to meet up whenever. Drop me a msg if you know you're going to be in the city some day.


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## Shaky Hands (Aug 5, 2016)

teacher77 said:


> Hey everyone, I'm currently switching from 2look PLL to 1look PLL and I'm having a hard time with recognition more than alg memorization. Is there any way (apps ?) to practice recognition other than just solving full cubes ? I find solving inefficient as some cases only show up once in a day so it hardly does anything to get things in my brain... Can some of you please tell me how you first did it ?



I learned a lot from CrazyBadCuber's tutorial on PLL recognition:


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## mafergut (Aug 5, 2016)

@teacher77 Thanks but it is a bit sad that I started the solve with a cross mistake and the only reason this is a PB is because that mistake ended up in a PLL skip  but I'm not going to complain.

Regarding the 4th pair, I tend to avoid F2L algs based on repeated triggers (e.g. the triple sexy one for edge in place with corner on top with cross color up) because if I execute them fast I will easily lose my lookahead and if I execute them slow they are usually not better in move count than other more intuitive solutions. I also try to avoid F moves as much as I can, because they are awkward to execute for me. In this case I prefer what I did, which is 2-gen and comfortable for me but your solution is nice so keep doing that if it works for you.

Regarding PLL recognition I didn't do anything specific. Just spam the alg over and over. Most of them have a 2 cycle, others like A&U-perms a 3 cycle. G-perms are a bit more confusing but can be practiced in pairs. If what you want is getting a random PLL every time and see how well you recognize it you can use a PLL scramble like those on csTimer. I also recommend Mark's 2-sided PLL recognition guide. It's the best you'll find. I tried to learn it last Christmas and, even though I didn't fully integrate it in my solves, it has improved a lot my recognition from 2 sides (I still need a 3rd one now and then).


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## newtonbase (Aug 5, 2016)

That's a nice guide @mark49152 I was looking at Sarah Strong's guide yesterday which is thorough but spread over several pages on her site. 

I got my stickerless Thunderclap V2 today. It's a touch locky but I do like it. The colour scheme is bolder too which helps.


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## JanW (Aug 5, 2016)

Last time I looked at Mark's PLL recognition tutorial was before I learned full PLL and it seemed quite complicated then. Had another look now and it looks a lot more manageable.  I shall try to learn it all now.

Yesterday I got a bundle of Traxxas 10k, 30k and 50k and did some experiments with those. First victim was my Thunderclap, which felt odd and had pretty bad spring noises out of the box. I lubed the core with 50k and put some 10k on the pieces. The spring noises went away and it became a very nice cube. Reminds me a lot of the Aolong v2. I need to do some more solves with it to find out if I can end up really liking it.

Next up was a Yuxin I use for blind. Again I used 50k for the core, but since I didn't want it quite as fast I tried using 30k on the pieces. My initial reaction was that I had put way too much lube and ruined it. It was really slow and sticky immediately after lubing. I didn't give up, kept working in the lube by playing around with it for about an hour while watching TV and eventually it got better. I can still feel some of the stickiness and also hear a sticky sound while turning. Not sure if I like it or not. If I end up not liking it and want it less sticky, do I need to clean off all the old lube from the pieces before relubing? Or could I try by adding some 10k to see if it becomes faster?

Anyone else here use 30k for lubing? If so, how do you use it? How much to apply and where?


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## mark49152 (Aug 5, 2016)

@JanW if you have gummed it up, don't put more in, not even lighter lube. Just take off the top layer and wipe the pieces off, then reassemble and work the remaining lube around, and repeat until you like it.


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## JanW (Aug 5, 2016)

Thanks @mark49152, I'll try that!


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## kbrune (Aug 5, 2016)

Hey guys! Over 50 pages have passed since I was last here. Life has been getting in the way of my cubing. It makes me sad 

I'm going to try to get back in some forum comps though. Thought I'd pop in and say hi to everyone. 

I miss following this thread! 

Cheers!


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## mafergut (Aug 5, 2016)

We were missing you already. Glad you're back!


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## kbrune (Aug 5, 2016)

@mafergut

Thanks! I see your 4x4 times have improved alot! Wow! I'm no longer faster then you there. I'll have to practice 5x5 more so I can delay your catching me there! Lol

Good job! I'm hoping to get below 1:30 again. I was close before.


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## mafergut (Aug 5, 2016)

Well, I have improved but not as much as I would have wanted. Anyway, some nice inspiration in this thread. Not sure you have had time to watch Chris' sub-1min Ao5 video from yesterday. That's what I really aim to but I still feel so far from it. Regarding 5x5 I don't seem to improve since 1 month ago but now I have some weeks of vacation where, on top of swimming pool and relaxing, I plan on putting some big cube practice time.


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## teacher77 (Aug 5, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> I learned quite early to recognise from two sides only, because it's faster, and in the long run that's what you'll want. I put together the guide linked below. In there is also a link to Rishi's tool I used for practising recognition.
> 
> https://www.speedsolving.com/forum/threads/two-sided-pll-recognition-guide.41108/
> 
> ...



RiDo's tool seems nice but I can't seem to get it working. I tried both in Excel 2013 and in Excel 2003 and either will make it crash. How did you run it ?

And the guide is great too but definitly advanced


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## mark49152 (Aug 5, 2016)

teacher77 said:


> RiDo's tool seems nice but I can't seem to get it working. I tried both in Excel 2013 and in Excel 2003 and either will make it crash. How did you run it ?


I think I was on Office 2010 at the time. Do you have macros enabled?


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## kbrune (Aug 5, 2016)

@mafergut

I was stuck at 3:30 on 5x5 for a long time. And then all of a sudden I dropped to 2:50-3:10. Out if nowhere. You're overall cubing skills are better then mine. So I'm sure you'll be sub 3 eventually.


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## teacher77 (Aug 5, 2016)

mafergut said:


> If what you want is getting a random PLL every time and see how well you recognize it you can use a PLL scramble like those on csTimer.



Sounds nice but how to you get it to do PLL scrambles ? I can't seem to find that in its options.


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## mafergut (Aug 5, 2016)

teacher77 said:


> Sounds nice but how to you get it to do PLL scrambles ? I can't seem to find that in its options.


Go to 3x3 scrambles on the left combo box ( the one you usually have on "WCA") and then choose PLL on the right one. I'm saying this from memory so I might be wrong.

Sent from my Nexus 4 with Tapatalk


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## teacher77 (Aug 5, 2016)

mafergut said:


> Go to 3x3 scrambles on the left combo box ( the one you usually have on "WCA") and then choose PLL on the right one. I'm saying this from memory so I might be wrong.
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 4 with Tapatalk



got it ! Thanks !



mafergut said:


> Go to 3x3 scrambles on the left combo box ( the one you usually have on "WCA") and then choose PLL on the right one. I'm saying this from memory so I might be wrong.
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 4 with Tapatalk


This is great !! The only thing it's missing is the ability to practice a subset of PLL's ie. the ones I learned the algs for so far


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## mafergut (Aug 5, 2016)

teacher77 said:


> This is great !! The only thing it's missing is the ability to practice a subset of PLL's ie. the ones I learned the algs for so far


But at least you can train your recognition on them as well.

Sent from my Nexus 4 with Tapatalk


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## JanW (Aug 6, 2016)

teacher77 said:


> This is great !! The only thing it's missing is the ability to practice a subset of PLL's ie. the ones I learned the algs for so far


The lack of this feature should be good motivation to learn more algs.  But even if you don't know the algs, you can still train recognition. It could be a good idea to learn to tell the difference between all cases already. (It's not necessary to be able to tell which a/b/c/d variant before you learn the algs, it's enough if you can tell if a G perm is a G perm.) Then when you identify a perm you don't know the alg for, you perform any known PLL alg in a random direction for another PLL case. Identify the next case and solve if you know the alg, otherwise do a random PLL alg again in a random direction.


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## muchacho (Aug 6, 2016)

First OH Mo100 under 40 seconds... just barely, 39.999 

I'm going to do a few more solves trying to improve that, but my hand is tired, 130 solves today.

edit: I'm done, 39.928


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## phreaker (Aug 7, 2016)

JanW said:


> Hahah, driving tests... that was a while ago. I actually failed my first one, but in hindsight this was a good thing. Upon failure, I was assigned a certain amount of extra lessons before retaking the test. As I took those lessons with another driving instructor, I learned that my first instructor had been really really bad. The reason I was so nervous going into the first test and got so many red marks was that my instructor hadn't taught me how to do things properly. He was mainly sitting next to me waiting for retirement, not commenting much at all on anything I did. The new instructor was a lot more demanding, corrected almost everything I did from the first lesson, and after a few lessons with him I was a lot more confident. Passed second test without any remarks.



I think the best story of this type I can share is... when I was learning to drive, the instructor took my rear view mirror, so he could see out of it... Alas I couldn't.

So I rolled down the windows and an 18 wheeler BLEW past us, REALLY loudly.

Him: Why did you roll down the windows, that scared me. (Paraphrased... age does take its toll.)

Me: So I could hear them coming. (I'd been taught the trick by my dad.)

Needless to say, I did pass my driving test. But I really hated driver's ed.


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## teacher77 (Aug 7, 2016)

Hey guys,

Small question here.

I just used cwtimer's PLL tool to make an average of 100 using exclusively my 2look PLL algs (that is : Ua, Ub, E, H, Z and Aa, but not Ab). I got an average of 7.97 s. This is not technically the "ao100" that the site counts because it's the average, counting every solve, except about 4-5 of them where I screwed up either on the alg or on recognition and which I simply deleted.

Now my question is : how good is that time, considering my average (for series of 10+ solves) is consistently between 39 and 43 s ?

I wanted to use this time as a "baseline" to compare how I would improve while learning 1look PLL, but I have no idea what goals to set.

Thanks


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## Jason Green (Aug 7, 2016)

@teacher77 I would guess that is pretty on target but not sure. I actually did 20-30 PLLs on cstimer since we were talking about them on here. I was timing recognition and execution and getting about 4-5 seconds. A couple of sixes and maybe two sub 4. I'm averaging right about 20.xx so it seems on scale with your times. Were you timing recognition or just execution?

Really good execution only is like sub 1 second (for fast kids I mean). For most oldies sub 2 is good. I'm usually 2-3 for execution only.


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## JanW (Aug 7, 2016)

@teacher77 why don't you use Ab?

1 look pll should improve times a lot. Getting PLL alg execution down to an average of 3-4 seconds should not be very hard. With a little bit of practice you should be able to execute most of them in 2-3 seconds. 

I've only just learned full PLL, I now tried doing all 21 algs in a row, got 1:15, which is about 3.5 seconds/alg for execution only (with some time to stop and think about which alg comes next).


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## h2f (Aug 7, 2016)

@teacher77 Last layer - I mean OLL + PLL - is over 1/3 of the solve. This means your LL should be around 14 seconds. With 8 seconds PLL it leaves 6 seconds for OLL. I think it's good.


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## teacher77 (Aug 7, 2016)

Jason Green said:


> Were you timing recognition or just execution?



Both. But it's not a big difference because for 2look PLL, my recognition is quite fast. 1st look is "are there headlights", which decides bettween Aa or E, 2nd look can be done with only 2 sides, to decide between Ua, Ub, Z or H. I never used Ab with 2look because the added recognition time didn't seem like is was worth saving an H only once every 6 solves or so. But now that I'm learning 1look, this is something that needs to be undone.



Jason Green said:


> Really good execution only is like sub 1 second (for fast kids I mean). For most oldies sub 2 is good. I'm usually 2-3 for execution only.



sub 2 for exec or recognition too ?

@JanW : the reason I wasn't using Ab is outlined above, but of course now I learned the alg. I now about 11 of the 21 algs so far and all of them I can perform sub 4. My problem isn't execution, it's the huge delay I take for recognition, AUF, etc.



h2f said:


> @teacher77 Last layer - I mean OLL + PLL - is over 1/3 of the solve. This means your LL should be around 14 seconds. With 8 seconds PLL it leaves 6 seconds for OLL. I think it's good.



Yeah, I never timed LL but 14 sec definitly sounds like my times. I get 11-12 once in a while, 17-19 when I'm unlucky.


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## JanW (Aug 7, 2016)

teacher77 said:


> I never used Ab with 2look because the added recognition time didn't seem like is was worth saving an H only once every 6 solves or so. But now that I'm learning 1look, this is something that needs to be undone.


In 2-look PLL you tell the difference by seeing if you have opposite color corners on front or left. When you get used to it, it shouldn't add to recognition time at all. It gets even easier in 1-look PLL when there are only 2 colors/side and no 3rd color edge piece to confuse you.  I do a regrip with left hand before starting an A perm. This regrip provides the extra split second needed to recognize which A perm it is.


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## MarcelP (Aug 7, 2016)

teacher77 said:


> Hey everyone, I'm currently switching from 2look PLL to 1look PLL and I'm having a hard time with recognition more than alg memorization. Is there any way (apps ?) to practice recognition other than just solving full cubes ? I find solving inefficient as some cases only show up once in a day so it hardly does anything to get things in my brain... Can some of you please tell me how you first did it ?


I wrote an app to practice Last layer algs. Check my signature for the link.


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## Selkie (Aug 7, 2016)

mafergut said:


> Well, I have improved but not as much as I would have wanted. Anyway, some nice inspiration in this thread. Not sure you have had time to watch Chris' sub-1min Ao5 video from yesterday. That's what I really aim to but I still feel so far from it. Regarding 5x5 I don't seem to improve since 1 month ago but now I have some weeks of vacation where, on top of swimming pool and relaxing, I plan on putting some big cube practice time.



Thanks Miguel, nice to know some of the useless stuff I post is motivating for some. I have to be honest and say I get more motivation to improve from this thread than anywhere else 

Some current targets I am working on at the moment:-


Sub 2m 5x5 Average
Sub 6m 7x7 Mean
Sub 3m Mega Average
The mega seems quite close and had 3 solves in the 2:5x.yz and then went to pieces so hopefully get one soon.

As for two sided recognition this is something I must really work on as I think it will be necessary for global sub 15.


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## mafergut (Aug 7, 2016)

I've been doing little more than reading you guys and liking your posts from Tapatalk since Friday but I hate to write long posts on my mobile so, now that I have some time in front of the computer I take the opportunity to say: I'm still here but trying to get some sunlight and exercise during summer weekends (no, I'm not sitting at home watching the Olympics on TV).



muchacho said:


> First OH Mo100 under 40 seconds... just barely, 39.999
> I'm going to do a few more solves trying to improve that, but my hand is tired, 130 solves today.
> edit: I'm done, 39.928



So nice!!! Last time I recorded an Ao100 was in Dec 2015 and it was mid 44.xx so you're now way ahead of me at OH. I don't think I'm any faster than back then as I haven't practiced much. I even have problems at times with muscle memory of some PLLs (like Rs and E) so, I should practise more. Regarding PLLs and muscle memory, I was doing some 6x6 and two times in a row I got an R perm and was incapable of doing it. I have been practicing them on the 6x6 until I got them right. Still so clumsy with anything bigger than a 4x4.


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## muchacho (Aug 7, 2016)

Thanks, I should have practiced algs more, half of the time I was using 2-look CMLL still... and that won't improve, I'm "leaving" OH for now to practice BLD.


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## Lid (Aug 7, 2016)

Selkie said:


> Some current targets I am working on at the moment:-
> 
> Sub 2m 5x5 Average
> Sub 6m 7x7 Mean
> Sub 3m Mega Average


Even sub2 Mega average should be easy for you with some more practice, and now with the new X-man Mega is fun again for me no more lockups, have already gotten a 1:39 single with it.

Atm I'm planning a small Kilominx page (CO+CP), just need a nice outline templet for the LL & I'm not that good with PS 
Like this one


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## Jason Green (Aug 7, 2016)

teacher77 said:


> I never used Ab with 2look because the added recognition time didn't seem like is was worth saving an H only once every 6 solves or so. But now that I'm learning 1look, this is something that needs to be undone.
> 
> sub 2 for exec or recognition too ?


I only used one A when I did 2 look also. Then when I started trying OH a little I was doing it too, but I've quit that now. Although I'm usually 2 look for OH still.

I meant sub 2 execution. Of course during solves hopefully you start being able to look ahead from OLL to PLL. I'm not very good at that though.


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## mafergut (Aug 8, 2016)

2:41.xx PB single 5x5, still can't sub-3 regularly and many solves go beyong 3:30.xx.
First sub-8 6x6 single, 7:47.xx, not sure if I should laugh or cry. Still the least misalignment of the Yuxin 6x6 ends up in a pop or serious lockup. I got last edge, OLL and PLL parity on it, though


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## Selkie (Aug 8, 2016)

Lid said:


> Even sub2 Mega average should be easy for you with some more practice, and now with the new X-man Mega is fun again for me no more lockups, have already gotten a 1:39 single with it.
> 
> Atm I'm planning a small Kilominx page (CO+CP), just need a nice outline templet for the LL & I'm not that good with PS
> Like this oneView attachment 6566



I think I will give Megaminx some concentrated effort. With UK average cut usually being 2:30 I think I can aim for that. The X-Man sounds interesting, especially considering teh Tornado is my main 3x3.

I will take a close look at your LL stuff. I did learn most EO cases and most EP cases but did not do much Mega in the last few months so lost some of them.



mafergut said:


> 2:41.xx PB single 5x5, still can't sub-3 regularly and many solves go beyong 3:30.xx.
> First sub-8 6x6 single, 7:47.xx, not sure if I should laugh or cry. Still the least misalignment of the Yuxin 6x6 ends up in a pop or serious lockup. I got last edge, OLL and PLL parity on it, though



Getting so many lockups on my Moyu 7x7 to the extent I cannot get a decent mean on film as I have a serious misalignment or pop on at least 3 out of 3 solves.


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## earth2dan (Aug 8, 2016)

Oh boy, that's a lot of pages to catch up on... Congrats to everyone on your recent progress. I've been MIA lately during these busy summer months. Haven't had much time for cubing though I did finally get around to swapping springs on my Yuxin 6x6 and thought I'd chime in.

The middle layers are definitely nicer now, though the outer layer has suffered. I can't quite put my finger on it but the outer layer now feels a little more catchy, less stable, and has lost a bit of it's corner cutting ability. It's still quite good, but I prefer 3x3 stage with the original springs. Tensions are very tricky to get right now as even a 1/8 turn of the screw seems to make a noticeable difference. I still get those second layer lockups like before, however they are much easier to recover from (usually as simple as reversing a 1/2 turn). I haven't had any pops since the spring swap.

Is it worth it to spring swap the Yuxin 6x6? I think so. The majority of the solve is spent in reduction, and reduction is much nicer after the spring swap. I'm disappointed that the 3x3 stage isn't as nice, but that is the shortest step in the whole solve so overall, I think this puzzle benefits from the spring swap. I bought a second Yuxin 6x6 to test the spring swap, and I'm going to leave my original alone so I can enjoy both versions 

I also got a cubicle premium Gans 356. I fell in love with it straight out of the box, however that was during the "gummy" break in stage. Now that it's broken in I'm finding it's just a little too fast and too loose for me. They did a wonderful job setting it up, but I think it's set up for a different class of speedcuber. I'll probably end up tightening it a bit and putting a tiny bit more heavy lube in it to slow it down a tad.


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## mafergut (Aug 8, 2016)

@earth2dan Oh, not what I was expecting about the spring swap. I was hoping you would say it's great but with those so so results I don't think I do 6x6 that much for all that hassle to be worth it for me, at least until I start to get a bit more decent times (which, for me, means low 6 minutes).

I have also thought that the Gans 356 is one of the best cubes I don't own (add the Weilong GTS to that list) and thought that I could change that getting a 356 Air as soon as it's out but not sure it's going to suit my turning style and speed (or lack thereof). What do you guys think? I have come back again to the Yuexiao after a quick love affair with the Hualong that ended up just meh.

Getting more sub-3 min 5x5 solves and less sup 3:30 ones but still far from sub-3 Ao5 (current PB 3:09.xx. And that's more or less what I'm into these days: 6x6, 5x5 and swimming pool  and waiting for my next unboxing material


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## Selkie (Aug 8, 2016)

Just ordered a Yuxin 6x6 Stickerless, X-Man Plane Stickerless Megaminx and a Stickerless QiYi Skewb. UK supplier so hopefully here this week Its a been a while since my last unboxing so will try and film it.


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## earth2dan (Aug 8, 2016)

@mafergut Yeah, it wasn't quite the transformation I was hoping for either. I don't regret doing it, as it is certainly better now. And it's nice to not have to worry about pops anymore, just the occasional lockup that's easy to undo.

I will almost certainly be buying the 356 Air. I'm still torn between all these excellent 3x3's, but I find myself solving a Gans 356 more than any others and I'm anxious to try out the latest.

I got the Thunderclap V2 as well, but I haven't set it up yet. Out of the box it's really snappy and stable, it feels like a cross between the original thunderclap and a Weilong GTS. It's quite noisy though, real clacky. I like quiet cubes, probably part of why I love the Gans so much.

@Selkie I'm sure you'll be happy with that 6x6. For me, it was a clear winner over my MoYu. And the stickerless shades are quite nice


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## Shaky Hands (Aug 8, 2016)

New 3x3 PB by over 1 second (17.09 improved to 15.74.)

Scramble: B2 L' F2 L' U2 L2 F2 U2 R2 U2 R U R2 B D' R' D' L' D2 B

I think this is the right reconstruction as it's the same OLL and PLL:


Spoiler



x2 y2 // inspection
U2 L R B U L F' // cross
U' F' U F R' U2 R // 1st pair
B' U B // 2nd pair
F' U2 F2 U F' // 3rd pair
R U2 R' F' U2 F U' F' U F // 4th pair
R B' R' U' R U B U' R' // OLL 
y' R' U' R y R2 u R' U R U' R u' R2 // Gb-perm
U // AUF



This is only my 33rd sub-20 solve, so something must have gone really right for me here.


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## JanW (Aug 8, 2016)

Very nice @Shaky Hands!

My pb is still the 17.xx LL skip from about a month ago. Haven't practiced regular 3x3 in a while. Haven't practiced bld much either the last few days. Have too much other stuff going on right now.

The Yuxin I gummed up with too much lube turned out pretty nice after some more breaking in. So nice that I did the same to my other Yuxin. Again it was really super sticky at first, but after a couple of hours breaking in it got really nice. But now I have 6 more of those cubes coming in the mail (was my chosen mbld cube) and I realized it would be 12+ hours to break them in if I do the same process to all. Maybe I should experiment with other ways of lubing that give more instant results...


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## Logiqx (Aug 8, 2016)

Train journey home... I stopped solving during F2L to allow a slightly elderly couple to sit down. Once they'd settled I resumed my solve and as I started turning he said "I bet you can do that in under 5 minutes".
I was starting my PLL at the moment when I should have responded but I waited to finish the alg and showed him the solved cube. His wife and the woman next to me thought it was pretty funny. "Smart arse" was his response. lol


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## mafergut (Aug 8, 2016)

@earth2dan, all, the Gans 356 Air seems to be even more expensive than the 356s v2 or whatever it's called. Something like $26, to be honest a bit too much for a 3x3 but anyway I think I need a 356 in my collection  ... and another drawer to store my puzzles


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## Selkie (Aug 8, 2016)

@Shaky Hands : Nice single Andy. You seem to be getting some great improvement recently. Awesome stuff mate 

@Logiqx : Haha Michael. I know you cube daily on yoru commute. I do whenever I can, usually on longer busines trips by train or plane. I think it helps getting used to performing in front of people for comp 

@earth2dan , @mafergut : I was a huge advocate for the Gans 356 and 356 v2 but with the lack of a stickerless version I wont be trying another one until they bring one out. Pity, sure they can afford to bring one out with the highly escalating prices


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## mark49152 (Aug 8, 2016)

Behold, my 4x4 & 5x5 single PBs from Macclesfield...


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## One Wheel (Aug 9, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> Behold, my 4x4 & 5x5 single PBs from Macclesfield...



Wow. I think I need to record some solves. That looks really slow compared to mine, but your times there are pretty close to 2 minutes better than my pb for 5x5 and 30 seconds better for 4x4.


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## mark49152 (Aug 9, 2016)

One Wheel said:


> Wow. I think I need to record some solves. That looks really slow compared to mine, but your times there are pretty close to 2 minutes better than my pb for 5x5 and 30 seconds better for 4x4.


You should. First law of video is that you look way slower than you feel. Second law of video is that those split second pauses are more like two seconds .


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## MarcelP (Aug 9, 2016)

Selkie said:


> Just ordered a Yuxin 6x6 Stickerless, X-Man Plane Stickerless Megaminx and a Stickerless QiYi Skewb. UK supplier so hopefully here this week Its a been a while since my last unboxing so will try and film it.


Are you going to buy the Gan 356 AIR? Current video's (incl Feliks's) look very good. I am very tempted to order one right now


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## mafergut (Aug 9, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> Behold, my 4x4 & 5x5 single PBs from Macclesfield...


I really need to record some big cube solves myself. I need to find out where I waste that extra minute at 5x5.
Nice solves and nice reaction to the 5x5 one 

Sent from my Nexus 4 with Tapatalk


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## muchacho (Aug 9, 2016)

25000 timed solves reached. I would say I've improved almost 1 second in the last 5000 so almost good. The first peak in that chart is when I was trying the Weilong GTS, the second when I realized I had neglected CN and needed to practise for the race to sub-25 as CN.


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## Selkie (Aug 9, 2016)

@mark49152 Wow a couple of lovely fluid solves there mate. Minimal pauses, great lookahead, well paced 3x3 stages. Very impressed mate 

@MarcelP I had not planned on getting the Gans 356 Air Marcel, however temping it might seem to me, I just cannot solve on stickered cubes any more. I am afraid my eyes are now stickerless only. Now if Gans would bring out a stickerless version..... 

@muchacho Wow David, awesome statistics. I would find this really interesting for myself but have used so many different timers over the years I would find it impossible to construct the graphs. I did post a graph of path to sub 20 5 years ago when I graduated the thread but that was jjust results in the thread. Great you are still seeing improvement albeit at a slower rate 

Megaminx, got a sub 3:00 Ao5 ealier yesterday on film and then this was the best 12 later yesterday. Think I will be globally sub 3:00 later today. Cannot wait for the X-Man Megaminx to be delivered 

Megaminx Average of 12: 2:56.23
(2:31.66), 3:00.71, 3:10.32, (3:20.94), 2:43.17, 3:04.04,3:03.38, 2:55.54, 2:51.02, 2:42.35,3:02.24, 2:49.55

Current aim is to be sub 2:30 for Guildford Open in October


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## MarcelP (Aug 9, 2016)

Selkie said:


> @MarcelP I had not planned on getting the Gans 356 Air Marcel, however temping it might seem to me, I just cannot solve on stickered cubes any more. I am afraid my eyes are now stickerless only. Now if Gans would bring out a stickerless version.....



Well, it is a good thing then that The Valk will come in a stickerless version


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## mafergut (Aug 9, 2016)

Oh, no! I had forgotten about The Valk. So, top 3x3s that I don't own... yet: Weilong GTS, Thunderclap v2, The Valk, Gans 356 Air. Not sure if I have forgotten any, I don't have anything new since the Yuexiao and Tornado. I wish they stopped making new 3x3s...  I'm not gonna sub-15 with any of them but the urge to buy them is so difficult to resist.

By the way, another couple seconds off my 5x5 PB single, now 2:39.xx. Only 40 seconds more to sub-2


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## Selkie (Aug 9, 2016)

Oh yes The Valk, definitely get that one 

Some more Megaminx progression building up for the delivery of teh X-Man Mega, cant wait

PB Single: 2:13.98 (Solve 10)
PB Ao5: 2:44.21 (Solves 1 - 5)
PB Ao12: 2:49.00 (Solves 1-12)



Spoiler



Session average: 2:49.00
1. 2:40.24 
R-- D-- R++ D++ R++ D-- R-- D++ R-- D-- U'
R-- D++ R++ D++ R++ D++ R++ D++ R++ D++ U
R++ D-- R++ D-- R-- D++ R++ D++ R++ D-- U
R++ D-- R++ D-- R-- D-- R-- D++ R-- D++ U
R-- D++ R++ D++ R-- D-- R++ D++ R++ D-- U'
R-- D++ R++ D-- R-- D-- R-- D-- R++ D++ U
R++ D-- R++ D++ R++ D-- R-- D++ R-- D-- U
2. 2:38.45 
R++ D++ R++ D++ R++ D++ R-- D++ R++ D-- U'
R++ D++ R++ D-- R-- D-- R-- D++ R-- D++ U
R++ D-- R-- D++ R++ D++ R++ D++ R-- D++ U
R++ D++ R-- D-- R++ D-- R-- D++ R-- D-- U'
R-- D-- R-- D++ R++ D-- R++ D++ R-- D++ U
R++ D++ R++ D-- R-- D-- R-- D++ R++ D++ U'
R-- D++ R++ D++ R++ D++ R-- D++ R-- D-- U'
3. 3:01.10 
R++ D-- R-- D++ R-- D-- R-- D-- R++ D++ U
R++ D-- R++ D++ R++ D++ R-- D-- R++ D-- U'
R-- D-- R-- D-- R++ D-- R++ D++ R++ D++ U
R++ D++ R-- D++ R-- D++ R-- D-- R-- D-- U'
R++ D-- R++ D-- R++ D++ R++ D++ R-- D-- U
R-- D-- R-- D++ R++ D++ R++ D-- R++ D++ U'
R-- D++ R++ D++ R-- D-- R-- D++ R++ D-- U'
4. 2:52.33 
R++ D++ R++ D++ R++ D++ R-- D-- R++ D++ U'
R++ D-- R++ D-- R++ D-- R++ D++ R-- D-- U
R-- D++ R++ D-- R-- D++ R-- D-- R-- D++ U
R++ D++ R-- D++ R++ D-- R-- D++ R-- D++ U
R++ D-- R++ D++ R-- D++ R++ D-- R-- D++ U'
R++ D++ R++ D-- R++ D++ R-- D++ R-- D++ U
R++ D-- R-- D-- R++ D++ R++ D-- R-- D++ U
5. 2:40.05 
R-- D-- R++ D++ R++ D-- R++ D++ R-- D++ U
R++ D-- R++ D++ R++ D++ R-- D-- R-- D++ U
R++ D++ R-- D-- R++ D-- R-- D-- R++ D-- U'
R++ D-- R-- D++ R++ D++ R-- D++ R++ D-- U
R++ D++ R++ D-- R++ D++ R-- D++ R++ D++ U'
R++ D-- R-- D++ R-- D++ R-- D++ R++ D++ U
R++ D++ R-- D-- R-- D-- R++ D++ R++ D++ U'
6. 3:02.43 
R++ D++ R++ D++ R++ D-- R-- D++ R++ D++ U
R++ D-- R++ D++ R-- D++ R++ D-- R++ D-- U
R-- D++ R-- D-- R++ D-- R-- D-- R++ D-- U
R++ D++ R++ D-- R++ D++ R++ D-- R++ D-- U
R-- D++ R-- D-- R++ D++ R-- D++ R++ D++ U
R-- D-- R++ D-- R++ D-- R++ D++ R-- D-- U
R++ D-- R-- D-- R-- D++ R++ D-- R-- D++ U'
7. 2:52.03 
R++ D++ R-- D++ R++ D-- R++ D-- R-- D-- U
R++ D++ R++ D-- R-- D++ R++ D-- R-- D-- U
R++ D-- R-- D-- R++ D++ R++ D-- R++ D-- U
R-- D-- R-- D-- R++ D-- R-- D++ R++ D++ U
R-- D-- R++ D++ R-- D-- R++ D-- R++ D++ U
R-- D-- R++ D-- R++ D++ R-- D++ R++ D-- U'
R++ D-- R++ D-- R++ D-- R-- D++ R++ D-- U'
8. 2:35.57 
R++ D-- R-- D++ R-- D++ R++ D-- R++ D++ U
R++ D-- R++ D++ R-- D++ R++ D-- R-- D-- U
R-- D++ R-- D++ R-- D-- R-- D++ R-- D-- U
R-- D++ R++ D-- R++ D-- R++ D++ R++ D++ U'
R-- D-- R-- D++ R++ D-- R-- D-- R++ D-- U
R-- D++ R-- D++ R-- D-- R-- D++ R-- D++ U
R++ D++ R-- D++ R-- D-- R++ D++ R++ D-- U'
9. 3:01.03 
R-- D-- R-- D-- R++ D++ R-- D++ R-- D-- U'
R++ D++ R++ D++ R-- D++ R-- D++ R++ D++ U
R-- D-- R-- D-- R-- D-- R-- D-- R++ D-- U'
R-- D-- R++ D-- R++ D++ R-- D-- R-- D++ U'
R++ D++ R-- D-- R-- D++ R-- D++ R++ D++ U
R++ D++ R++ D++ R++ D++ R++ D-- R-- D-- U
R-- D++ R-- D-- R-- D++ R++ D++ R++ D-- U
10. (2:13.98) 
R++ D++ R-- D-- R++ D-- R-- D++ R++ D++ U
R++ D++ R-- D++ R++ D++ R++ D++ R-- D++ U'
R-- D++ R++ D++ R-- D++ R-- D-- R++ D++ U
R-- D-- R++ D-- R++ D++ R-- D++ R-- D-- U
R-- D-- R++ D-- R++ D++ R++ D++ R-- D++ U
R++ D-- R++ D++ R-- D-- R-- D++ R++ D-- U
R-- D++ R-- D++ R-- D-- R++ D++ R++ D-- U'
11. 2:46.73 
R-- D++ R++ D-- R++ D-- R-- D++ R-- D-- U
R-- D++ R++ D++ R++ D-- R-- D-- R-- D-- U'
R++ D-- R++ D++ R++ D++ R++ D-- R-- D-- U'
R-- D-- R-- D-- R-- D++ R-- D-- R-- D++ U
R++ D-- R++ D++ R-- D-- R-- D-- R++ D-- U'
R-- D-- R-- D-- R-- D++ R-- D-- R-- D++ U
R-- D-- R++ D++ R-- D-- R++ D++ R++ D-- U'
12. (3:09.43) 
R-- D-- R-- D-- R++ D++ R-- D-- R-- D-- U'
R++ D-- R++ D++ R++ D++ R-- D-- R++ D-- U'
R-- D++ R++ D++ R++ D-- R++ D-- R++ D++ U
R-- D++ R-- D++ R++ D-- R-- D-- R++ D++ U'
R++ D++ R-- D++ R-- D-- R-- D-- R++ D++ U'
R++ D++ R++ D-- R-- D-- R++ D++ R-- D++ U'
R++ D-- R-- D-- R-- D-- R-- D-- R-- D++ U



Really need to work on my LL. Currently I do:-

EO - F(RUR'U')F' and inverse
CO - Usually sune/antisune to solve or leave 2 corners
EP - J-Perm / Y-Perm / R2 U2 R2' U R2 U2 R2' (And Inverse)
CP - Comms
Anyone know of a good intermediate method. I am thinking @Lid here


----------



## mafergut (Aug 9, 2016)

@Selkie, Chris, wow! If you're still using that kind of LL and already getting low 2 singles you will get sub-2 as soon as you learn better algs. Well, in fact 5x5 and Mega times are quite similar (at least for me) so if you can get sub-2 at 5x5 you also can at Mega if you put the effort.

Counting that 5x5 PB single from two posts ago and the next 4 solves (1st four solves of the weekly comp) I got new PB Ao5: 3:06.xx.

EDIT: Improved later to Ao5 = 3:03.07, Ao12 = 3:08.65. Did a full Ao50 today (maybe 10-15 solves are from yesterday, I can't remember), also PB (3:18.xx). Still so much time lost fighting against the cube


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## earth2dan (Aug 9, 2016)

Definitely getting the Valk and the 356 Air. I've given up on trying not to buy new 3x3's. I just can't help myself 

I've made the switch to stickerless for all but 3x3. I'm the pickiest about shades on 3x3 and the x-man tornado is probably the best stickerless 3x3 I own as far as performance/shades go, but it's not as nice as my Gans. For now, I'm content to resticker black 3x3's with my shades.

You guys and your crazy Mega times, I'm not even in the same ballpark. That one is going to require a lot of practice if I want to improve... My focus right now is 3,5,6. I feel like I've hit a hard wall with 4x4 and have kind of fallen out of love with it. I'm enjoying 6x6 a lot more now that I'm fast enough to do several solves in a session.


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## mafergut (Aug 9, 2016)

earth2dan said:


> Definitely getting the Valk and the 356 Air. I've given up on trying not to buy new 3x3's. I just can't help myself
> 
> I've made the switch to stickerless for all but 3x3. I'm the pickiest about shades on 3x3 and the x-man tornado is probably the best stickerless 3x3 I own as far as performance/shades go, but it's not as nice as my Gans. For now, I'm content to resticker black 3x3's with my shades.
> 
> You guys and your crazy Mega times, I'm not even in the same ballpark. That one is going to require a lot of practice if I want to improve... My focus right now is 3,5,6. I feel like I've hit a hard wall with 4x4 and have kind of fallen out of love with it. I'm enjoying 6x6 a lot more now that I'm fast enough to do several solves in a session.


As I said, times for Mega and 5x5 are quite similar (maybe Mega is a little faster according to current WRs) so you should be able to get to sub-3 with a little practice and a good Mega, which right now is not a problem any more.

Regarding purchasing every 3x3 I can't really justify it any more, even to myself.
And also one step forward and another one backwards. After improving significantly today at 5x5 I tried to do some 4x4 and I was like 10 seconds slower. Maybe I'm just tired so I'm calling it a day.

Sent from my Nexus 4 with Tapatalk


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## JanW (Aug 9, 2016)

I got home after a couple of pints at the pub and felt it would be a great idea to lube and set up my Thunderclap v2. Took it apart, cleaned it a bit, lubed the core and started screwing the center pieces back on. After a few screws, I realized I forgot the centerpieces and only screwed the screws into the core. Lesson learned - don't drink and lube.


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## One Wheel (Aug 9, 2016)

mafergut said:


> As I said, times for Mega and 5x5 are quite similar (maybe Mega is a little faster according to current WRs) so you should be able to get to sub-3 with a little practice



Actually the fastest mega times are faster, times are about the same for 50th percentile solvers for each puzzle, and on the slow end 5x5 is much faster than mega.


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## mark49152 (Aug 9, 2016)

More comp action...


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## Berd (Aug 9, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> More comp action...


Many congrats on that 5bld! I have a dnf by 3 wings as my best official attempt.


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## Shaky Hands (Aug 10, 2016)

Great stuff @mark49152. Once again, a case of me watching something whilst knowing the result, but feeling I was willing you on anyway!


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## Lid (Aug 10, 2016)

Selkie said:


> Really need to work on my LL. Currently I do:-
> 
> EO - F(RUR'U')F' and inverse
> CO - Usually sune/antisune to solve or leave 2 corners
> ...


For EO you can use mulitple OLLs from 3x3 to influence the CO, ie FRUR'U'F' vs. RUR'U'R'FRF'.
Other usable OLLs; 28, 57, 31, 32, 47, 48, 34, 46, 5, 6, 7, 8, 35, 37, 51, 52, 13, 14.
CO: learn all 16 cases, they are just as easy as CO on 3x3 imo.
EP; here I try to preseve the blocks I have, know what your algs does.
CP; I use algs for the Q & E cases, and comms for rest (A & O's)

Random 3x3 single ... *10.721*, saw the skip.


----------



## JohnnyReggae (Aug 10, 2016)

mafergut said:


> @earth2dan
> I have also thought that the Gans 356 is one of the best cubes I don't own (add the Weilong GTS to that list) and thought that I could change that getting a 356 Air as soon as it's out but not sure it's going to suit my turning style and speed (or lack thereof). What do you guys think? I have come back again to the Yuexiao after a quick love affair with the Hualong that ended up just meh.
> 
> Getting more sub-3 min 5x5 solves and less sup 3:30 ones but still far from sub-3 Ao5 (current PB 3:09.xx. And that's more or less what I'm into these days: 6x6, 5x5 and swimming pool  and waiting for my next unboxing material


I bought a Gans 356 about 5 months ago. At first I really struggled with it and initially didn't like it as it flexed a lot. It was initially not as stable as the Yeuxiao and I kept going back to the Yeuxiao. But seeing that I had to justify to myself the spend on the Gans I persevered with it and I am so happy that I did. At the moment given all the 3x3's that I have I will go to the Gans 99% of the time. The Gans has taught me some cube control that I did not have before using it which in turn has helped with any other cube I pick up including the larger cubes.



earth2dan said:


> @mafergut
> 
> I will almost certainly be buying the 356 Air. I'm still torn between all these excellent 3x3's, but I find myself solving a Gans 356 more than any others and I'm anxious to try out the latest.
> 
> ...


I've already ordered the Gans AIR, but it will more than likely be more than a month before it arrives :-( I can't complain though I have enough other 3x3's to keep myself entertained 

I'm going to give the Thunderclap a miss. I have their V1 and am not very impressed with it. For the price it is awesome, but definitely not in the great cube category.



mafergut said:


> @earth2dan, all, the Gans 356 Air seems to be even more expensive than the 356s v2 or whatever it's called. Something like $26, to be honest a bit too much for a 3x3 but anyway I think I need a 356 in my collection  ... and another drawer to store my puzzles


That for me is the biggest issue with the Gans ... the $$$ . Even though I own one and have ordered the AIR I'm still not convinced they are worth the price compared to other cubes ... but in the same breath I say it is my main and I use it all the time ... At least I can say I am getting my money's worth


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## MarcelP (Aug 10, 2016)

I just read on twitter that Feliks had a PB Ao12 of 5.xx with the GAN 356 Air, so I gave in and pre-ordered one from the Cubicle. The force was too strong on this one...


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## mark49152 (Aug 10, 2016)

MarcelP said:


> I just read on twitter that Feliks had a PB Ao12 of 5.xx with the GAN 356 Air, so I gave in and pre-ordered one from the Cubicle. The force was too strong on this one...


Wow... maybe if I get one I could be consistently sub-18


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## MarcelP (Aug 10, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> Wow... maybe if I get one I could be consistently sub-18


Ha ha ha, I always think the next cube will improve my game. But they never do.  Right now I get my best times with the GuoGuan. It used to be the Gan 356S for a long time. But it is too instable compared to the GuoGuan. The Air is supposed to be more stable..






We will see...


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## mark49152 (Aug 10, 2016)

MarcelP said:


> The Air is supposed to be more stable.. We will see...


Nothing like a bit of pseudo-science to prove the idea . So beta is the coefficient of cube stability. I wonder how they measure that beta? What forces are applied to the cube? Or is there some guy behind the camera saying "squeeze it a bit more, we need a higher beta!"


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## MarcelP (Aug 10, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> Or is there some guy behind the camera saying "squeeze it a bit more, we need a higher beta!"


LOL, I could hear the Chinese accent


----------



## h2f (Aug 10, 2016)

What about new Thunderclap after some time of using it? I have mine for a week. I did maybe 100 solves and it becomes better but still not as good as my old V1. M moves hurt


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## mafergut (Aug 10, 2016)

h2f said:


> What about new Thunderclap after some time of using it? I have mine for a week. I did maybe 100 solves and it becomes better but still not as good as my old V1. M moves hurt


Thanks! One new 3x3 less in my "I shouldn't but I know I will end up buying it" list.

On the other hand, @MarcelP, that pseudo-cience bit has made me keep the 356 Air in said list, as the one thing (apart from price) discouraging me on the 356/356s was stability... well, the fact that I absolutely hate the 357 also had some weight. But those little cute springs inside coloured plastic cages are so tempting


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## h2f (Aug 10, 2016)

mafergut said:


> Thanks! One new 3x3 less in my "I shouldn't but I know I will end up buying it" list.
> 
> On the other hand, @MarcelP, that pseudo-cience bit has made me keep the 356 Air in said list, as the one thing (apart from price) discouraging me on the 356/356s was stability... well, the fact that I absolutely hate the 357 also had some weight. But those little cute springs inside coloured plastic cages are so tempting



On the other hand I must say I've started use it in 3bld and it's great. I had only one blow up pop but after that accident all is fine. And funny but comms when I use M/M' moves are fine. It will replace my other cubes like Yuxin, Aolong v1 and Thunderclap v1.


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## mafergut (Aug 10, 2016)

h2f said:


> On the other hand I must say I've started use it in 3bld and it's great. I had only one blow up pop but after that accident all is fine. And funny but comms when I use M/M' moves are fine. It will replace my other cubes like Yuxin, Aolong v1 and Thunderclap v1.


Nah, don't try to change opinion now. I'm not gonna put it back in the list 

"The List": Weilong GTS, Thunderclap v2, The Valk, Gans 356 Air


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## Shaky Hands (Aug 10, 2016)

h2f said:


> What about new Thunderclap after some time of using it? I have mine for a week. I did maybe 100 solves and it becomes better but still not as good as my old V1. M moves hurt



The most pain from M moves in my opinion is the Moyu Dianma with its thinner middle layer. Might have been good for young-uns, but big fingers don't work with it.


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## h2f (Aug 10, 2016)

mafergut said:


> Nah, don't try to change opinion now. I'm not gonna put it back in the list
> 
> "The List": Weilong GTS, Thunderclap v2, The Valk, Gans 356 Air



 Have you add new Galaxy megaminx?


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## h2f (Aug 10, 2016)

Shaky Hands said:


> The most pain from M moves in my opinion is the Moyu Dianma with its thinner middle layer. Might have been good for young-uns, but big fingers don't work with it.



I've hated DianMa. I've sold it a day after I bought it.


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## mafergut (Aug 10, 2016)

h2f said:


> Have you add new Galaxy megaminx?


Already on its way home with a Kungfu Yuehun 2x2, a Kungfu Cangfeng 4x4 and a Yuxin Blue 4x4


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## muchacho (Aug 10, 2016)

Oh didn't you recently say the Aurora was really good and were going to pass on the Galaxy? 

I'm not buying any more cubes... ok maybe different puzzles that I don't own like a 6x6 or a fisher/axis/rex cube.


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## SenorJuan (Aug 10, 2016)

I've just squished up my Zhanchi, and it looks exactly like the "beta=18 degrees" picture. I can lay my hands on a genuine Rubiks with a beta of 0.000. So if the science is right, that riveted old monster is ideal as my 'main'.

[nerd alert].. I squished it diagonally (pushing two diagonally opposite corners on the top face together) until it was solid. It appears the limiting factor was how much the corner pieces overlap the centre-piece. If the corners weren't 'under-cut' the 'beta' would be reduced a fair bit.


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## JanW (Aug 10, 2016)

h2f said:


> On the other hand I must say I've started use it in 3bld and it's great. I had only one blow up pop but after that accident all is fine. And funny but comms when I use M/M' moves are fine. It will replace my other cubes like Yuxin, Aolong v1 and Thunderclap v1.


It's indeed quite nice for bld. I had a decent Ao5 on my Thuderclap v2 just now. Ao5: 3:01.80 - (2:18.25), 2:45.04, (03:38 DNF), 03:03.42, 03:16.93

Times show a typical trend for me. Those were the first 5 solves today and times get slower and slower with every solve. Memo in first solve was 50s, all other >1 min, with the 4th having slowest memo (1:47). Usually the first solve I do in a session is the fastest. Then memo and recalling memo gets slower. I can't really do long sessions at all, have to take a break after a few solves. Am I memorizing things too well, so that old memo keeps interfering with new memo? Or is this just so fatiguing for the brain that It's supposed to be like this?


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## mark49152 (Aug 10, 2016)

Interesting how some people prefer 356s as main for 3BLD. I also like a lighter, faster cube for 3BLD and am less concerned about stability. Perhaps the techniques we use to keep control of the cube are different with eyes closed. For regular 3x3 I find it a bit too unstable.


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## mafergut (Aug 10, 2016)

muchacho said:


> Oh didn't you recently say the Aurora was really good and were going to pass on the Galaxy?
> 
> I'm not buying any more cubes... ok maybe different puzzles that I don't own like a 6x6 or a fisher/axis/rex cube.


I did say that indeed. Which proves my point that I have problems to control myself when buying new cubes. In this case everyone kept saying how great it was and I really wanted to have a stickerless Mega just because of the "stickerless everything" trend in this thread and, yeah, I have a stickerless Dayan with ridges but everybody knows how that ended up, right? So, yeah, I got the Galaxy and then some more to keep it company during the trip home 

So, no more orders until at least Christmas, I hope.


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## Shaky Hands (Aug 10, 2016)

h2f said:


> I've hated DianMa. I've sold it a day after I bought it.



I'm surprised you found a buyer!


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## mark49152 (Aug 10, 2016)

Shaky Hands said:


> I'm surprised you found a buyer!


I gave mine to my 3 year old. She likes it.


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## newtonbase (Aug 10, 2016)

I quite liked the Dianma but I was quite new then. 

I've lost part of a corner from my Weilong GTS. Put it in my pocket, walked 50 yards to my car. Walked back and pulled it out of my pocket with the outer bits of the corner missing. Bizarre. Retraced my steps 3 times and it's gone. Lovely smooth cube so it's a shame.


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## mafergut (Aug 10, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> I quite liked the Dianma but I was quite new then.
> 
> I've lost part of a corner from my Weilong GTS. Put it in my pocket, walked 50 yards to my car. Walked back and pulled it out of my pocket with the outer bits of the corner missing. Bizarre. Retraced my steps 3 times and it's gone. Lovely smooth cube so it's a shame.


Lesson learned the hard way, always carry them in a bag. I used to solve all kinds of cubes in the train but now I'm worried to carry my CB G4 after the massive pop I had at home, those pesky little inner edge pieces would prove very difficult to recover from a pop in the train. I had my Weilong v2 pop in the train when it was like 1 minute to my stop. Luckily I could get back all the 2-3 pieces that popped but 1 min later I would have had to abandon the train leaving the pieces there. Yuxin 5x5 does not pop or does it? Because it's the cube now I most frequently use on the train... and 3x3s that have never popped like the Yuexiao, etc.

I was going to like your post but then I thought: "I don't want him to think I like the whole thing of him losing pieces from a good cube" but it really sounds like a weird story. It's like the Bermuda Triangle was somewhere in between your car and your home.


----------



## Shaky Hands (Aug 10, 2016)

I've never had a pop on Yuxin 5x5 that has affected internal pieces. I have had some very tough lock-ups but even these are few and far between.


----------



## newtonbase (Aug 10, 2016)

Shaky Hands said:


> I've never had a pop on Yuxin 5x5 that has affected internal pieces. I have had some very tough lock-ups but even these are few and far between.


Mine only popped once when someone borrowed it at the UK's. He only just got it back together before my round.


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## Selkie (Aug 10, 2016)

@Lid , Thanks very much will take a look. I have been learning more CO cases and EP cases to bolster my current method and LL is getting faster.

Loving the discussions on the Gans 356 Air and stability etc. I always did love the 356 v2 when I solved on stickerless and it still holds the record for my best average on film 13.5x. I would love to try but but for the fact I need sticker less now.

The puzzle order arrived today and I did a 25 minute unboxing video only to find for some reason it did not record the audio so a waste of time 

Qiyi Skewb - Only ordered to have s stickerless one. I hardly average sub 20!
Yuxin 6x6 - Very nice but easy to mis-align. Only did one solve for tthe unboxing at 4:15.xy. promising
X-Man Galaxy Megaminx - Wow, just wow, been solving on this thing all day on and off with the following results:-

PB Ao5: 2:36.53
PB Ao12: 2:42.51
Ao50: 2:49.74



Spoiler



2:52.24, (3:18.33), 2:43.32,2:55.85, 2:53.82, 2:32.16, 2:49.88,2:44.12, 2:56.58, (2:17.79), (2:20.45), 3:00.83, 2:50.16, (3:05.96), 2:54.94, 2:54.09,2:52.14, 2:52.78, 2:56.88, 2:56.44,2:41.56, 2:43.19, 2:56.28, 2:42.84,2:54.18, 2:45.00, 2:34.61, 2:46.97,2:48.73, 2:32.17, (2:31.45),2:36.29, 2:41.12, 3:05.30, 3:05.45, (3:08.05), 2:59.78, 2:50.14,2:40.25, 2:38.77, 3:01.80, 2:39.86,2:48.18, 2:50.64, 2:57.54, 2:55.22,2:57.73, 2:34.68, 2:55.74, 2:58.20


So sub 2:50, 6 more weeks of intensive practice to get that sub 2:30.

The Guildford Open 2016 schedule is up and since I can only make the Sunday I will concentrating on: 3x3, 5x5 and Megaminx and after all that 4x4 and 6x6 progress recently. That will have to wait for UK Championship in November


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## JanW (Aug 10, 2016)

Valk and Gans Air? So that's 2 more cubes I should own, which I didn't even know existed yet... I never had a Gans, I'm quite curious what they hype is all about. Will probably order one some day. But not now. 

With my new set of proper lube, I discover a whole lot of "new" cubes in my drawer at home. Today I set up the Weilong v1. This one had terrible spring noices on 4 sides when I got it and felt really awkward. After some treatment it became a completely different cube. Wow, that thing is fast! Not sure what I would use that cube for, but it's quite fun to solve. Shame it is white, which hurts my recognition.

Interesting to read about explosive pops. This has never happened to me, not with any cube. Does this mean my tensions are too tight? Or I'm too gentle in my solving?


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## h2f (Aug 10, 2016)

Shaky Hands said:


> I'm surprised you found a buyer!


 good price....



JanW said:


> It's indeed quite nice for bld. I had a decent Ao5 on my Thuderclap v2 just now. Ao5: 3:01.80 - (2:18.25), 2:45.04, (03:38 DNF), 03:03.42, 03:16.93
> 
> Times show a typical trend for me. Those were the first 5 solves today and times get slower and slower with every solve. Memo in first solve was 50s, all other >1 min, with the 4th having slowest memo (1:47). Usually the first solve I do in a session is the fastest. Then memo and recalling memo gets slower. I can't really do long sessions at all, have to take a break after a few solves. Am I memorizing things too well, so that old memo keeps interfering with new memo? Or is this just so fatiguing for the brain that It's supposed to be like this?



In 3bld my first times are almost always bad and dnf. I'm warmed up after 5-10 solves and this is the moment good times come.


----------



## newtonbase (Aug 10, 2016)

Selkie said:


> @Lid , Thanks very much will take a look. I have been learning more CO cases and EP cases to bolster my current method and LL is getting faster.
> 
> Loving the discussions on the Gans 356 Air and stability etc. I always did love the 356 v2 when I solved on stickerless and it still holds the record for my best average on film 13.5x. I would love to try but but for the fact I need sticker less now.
> 
> ...


I've got a pass for both days of Guildford! No mention of an overnight stay yet but I'm not pushing it.


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## Jason Green (Aug 11, 2016)

That Dianma looks horrible, think I will have bad dreams about it. 

Chris, you should dub over your video like a bad martial arts overdub. That could be funny. 

I almost decided to order my birthday cubes early for the Portland comp, but I'm going to wait. I had been putting Maru on the Yuexiao recently and liked it after some solves but it only lasts like a day it seems which is annoying. I decided to try some of my weight 3. I accidentally squirted way too much, but just wiped some off and worked it around, and I really like it. It slows it down almost feels like my Gans, not as clicky as it was but still stable.


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## earth2dan (Aug 11, 2016)

Just finished setting up my Thunderclap V2. It's really nice now. They probably should have given it a different name though, it doesn't feel much like the original Thunderclap. It's really fast, snappy, and stable. If not for one major issue I would put it in my top 3. It's just so damn noisy. I was hoping some weight 5 lube would shut it up a bit, but nope. It's clacky and really loud. Despite how great it is to solve, the noise is a deal breaker for me. Sadly, I think this one is getting shelved.

There's been some discussion recently about filming solves and discovering how bad they look when you watch the video. So I decided to film a few 5x5 solves tonight... It's true! Here's a video of my best solve of the session. It's only a couple seconds off my PB and it looks awful on video. The centers were okay I guess, but the edge pairing was just awful. So many long pauses. Then 3x3 was a mess with mistakes. I used to think sub 2:00 was a pipe dream, but now seeing how much room I have for improvement I can definitely see sub 2:00 in my future


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## MarcelP (Aug 11, 2016)

h2f said:


> What about new Thunderclap after some time of using it? I have mine for a week. I did maybe 100 solves and it becomes better but still not as good as my old V1. M moves hurt


I like it a lot. My times are great. It is the stability combined with speed that I like. I get better times on the Thunderclap V2 than GAN 356 V2. It is the incredible loud noise what makes me not used it as a main. GuoGuan is way more silent.


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## SenorJuan (Aug 11, 2016)

"the (Thunderclap2) noise is a deal breaker for me"
You could try 'muffling' it. I've quietened my Zhanchi a bit. Open up the pieces, and glue a 7mm square of black rubber to the inner of the large flat surfaces. I used rubber cut from a dead bike inner tube, glued in with rubber puncture repair cement. Other not-too-permanent glues would include Evostick, 'contact' glues. When 'ticked' with a fingernail, they definitely have a deader, less clicky sound, and the whole cube was quieter after. 
There's a thread on here about it - some had tried filling the voids with cotton wool. Whatever you try, it has to be light weight, you don't really want to add much more than 10 grams total weight to the cube.


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## Selkie (Aug 11, 2016)

@newtonbase , Awesome news Mark, will see you there 

@Jason Green , Haha jason, that would make a good unboxing but there is better news to follow...

@earth2dan , Lovely single. Watching back might seem like huge pauses you did not know were there but nothing like self critique for improvement.

I realised the issue with my unboxing is that Movie Maker had not loaded the audio properly but it had recorded so here is the video of the unboxing of:-


Qiyi Stickerless Skewb
X-Man Sculptured Galaxy Megaminx
Yuxin 6x6


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## JanW (Aug 11, 2016)

3bld DNF, 1:45.63, off by one edge cycle. Solved correct cycle in wrong direction.  Memo 37 seconds. This would have beaten my old 3bld pb by 25 seconds.

It should be only a matter of time until I eventually get a sub 2 success.


----------



## MarcelP (Aug 11, 2016)

How is this for a 19 sec solver 


Spoiler:  It is nice to be a Color neutral solver



21. 11.99 R' U' R2 U' R2 F2 R2 F2 D R2 D' L2 F D2 R D B R2 U2 L2

y2 // inspection I see easy blue cross and that after cross an easy yellow/red pair will form

r' D r x' y R'// cross (6)
U' R' U2 R U2 R' U R // 1st (easy but lot of moves) (8)
U' L U' L' R U' R' U R U' R' U2 R U' R'// 2nd (16)
y R' U R L U L' //3rd (7)
y R U R' // 4th (4)
U2 F' L' U' L U L' U' L U F // OLL (11)
R U R' F' R U R' U' R' F R2 U' R' U2 // PLL 15)
//67 moves in 11.99 = 5.5 TPS

alg.cubing.net






Ps. my first or second sub 12 of 2016  Cube: MoYu Tanglong


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## MarcelP (Aug 11, 2016)

Oh and.. I uploaded this a few weeks ago, but forgot to share. This is a typical competition F#.. up

I have a perfect very slow solving cross + F2L and start PLL at 14 secs... and then it all goes to crap and end up with 21 secs


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## Selkie (Aug 11, 2016)

@MarcelP Nice single and I enjoyed both PLLs to be honest in the comp single 

More megaminx in case you were not sick enough of the updates already but with an interesting fact:-

number of times: 27/27
best time: 2:14.05
worst time: 2:48.83

current mo3: 2:31.72 (σ = 13.94)
best mo3: 2:24.98 (σ = 4.00)

current avg5: 2:31.95 (σ = 5.21)
best avg5: *2:31.32* (σ = 2.79)

current avg12: 2:35.62 (σ = 8.57)
best avg12: *2:31.32* (σ = 6.17)

session avg: 2:34.39 (σ = 7.63)
session mean: 2:34.15

Now for the interesting thing. Both the Ao5 and Ao12 are the same average time and both PBs so my PB ao5 = PB ao12. Can't see that happening often and I have checked the calculation:-

*(2:20.55),2:34.89, 2:32.84, 2:33.02, 2:28.10*,2:34.08, 2:31.63, 2:43.71, (2:46.52), 2:25.21, 2:28.86,2:20.87

Now hurry up sub 2:30 average already


----------



## Selkie (Aug 11, 2016)

Selkie said:


> Now hurry up sub 2:30 average already



Megaminx Sub 2:30 Ao5. Im taking a break, my hands hurt!! 

Average of 5: 2:29.53


Spoiler



1. 2:21.50 
R-- D++ R-- D++ R++ D++ R-- D-- R-- D-- U
R++ D++ R++ D-- R-- D++ R++ D-- R-- D-- U'
R++ D++ R-- D++ R++ D-- R++ D++ R++ D-- U
R++ D++ R-- D-- R-- D++ R++ D++ R-- D-- U
R++ D-- R++ D-- R++ D-- R-- D++ R++ D++ U'
R++ D++ R++ D++ R-- D-- R++ D++ R-- D-- U'
R++ D++ R-- D-- R-- D++ R++ D++ R++ D-- U'
2. (2:43.38) 
R-- D++ R++ D++ R++ D++ R++ D++ R-- D++ U'
R-- D-- R-- D-- R++ D++ R-- D-- R++ D++ U
R-- D-- R-- D++ R++ D++ R-- D++ R++ D++ U
R++ D-- R++ D-- R-- D-- R++ D-- R-- D-- U
R-- D++ R++ D-- R-- D-- R++ D++ R-- D-- U'
R-- D++ R-- D++ R-- D++ R-- D++ R-- D-- U'
R-- D-- R-- D-- R++ D++ R-- D++ R++ D-- U'
3. 2:35.82 
R++ D-- R-- D++ R-- D-- R++ D-- R-- D-- U
R++ D++ R-- D-- R++ D-- R++ D++ R++ D-- U'
R-- D-- R++ D++ R++ D++ R++ D++ R-- D++ U'
R++ D-- R-- D++ R-- D++ R++ D-- R-- D++ U
R++ D++ R++ D-- R++ D-- R++ D++ R-- D++ U'
R++ D++ R-- D++ R++ D++ R++ D-- R++ D-- U
R++ D-- R-- D-- R-- D++ R-- D-- R++ D++ U'
4. (2:18.71) 
R++ D-- R-- D-- R-- D++ R++ D-- R-- D-- U'
R-- D-- R++ D++ R-- D++ R++ D-- R-- D++ U'
R++ D++ R++ D++ R++ D++ R++ D++ R-- D++ U
R-- D++ R-- D++ R-- D-- R-- D-- R-- D-- U
R++ D-- R-- D-- R++ D++ R++ D-- R++ D-- U'
R-- D++ R++ D++ R-- D-- R++ D++ R-- D-- U'
R++ D++ R-- D-- R-- D++ R++ D++ R-- D++ U
5. 2:31.27 
R++ D-- R-- D++ R++ D++ R-- D++ R-- D++ U'
R-- D-- R-- D++ R++ D-- R++ D-- R++ D-- U'
R-- D-- R++ D++ R-- D++ R++ D-- R-- D-- U
R-- D-- R-- D-- R++ D++ R-- D-- R++ D++ U
R-- D-- R++ D++ R-- D++ R++ D-- R++ D++ U
R++ D-- R-- D-- R++ D-- R++ D++ R-- D++ U
R-- D-- R-- D++ R-- D-- R-- D-- R++ D-- U


----------



## CLL Smooth (Aug 11, 2016)

Selkie said:


> Megaminx Sub 2:30 Ao5. Im taking a break, my hands hurt!!
> 
> Average of 5: 2:29.53
> 
> ...


Been meaning to practice mega for upcoming Oregon comp but I've been pretty busy. Inspired by your recent progress and this post I just did an Ao5: 2:28.72 with a pb single: 2:05.29!
I recommend to not stop at sub-2:30 with your progress.


----------



## Selkie (Aug 11, 2016)

CLL Smooth said:


> Been meaning to practice mega for upcoming Oregon comp but I've been pretty busy. Inspired by your recent progress and this post I just did an Ao5: 2:28.72 with a pb single: 2:05.29!
> I recommend to not stop at sub-2:30 with your progress.



Thanks for the words of encouragement. Yes I have been surprised by progression to be fair, that coupled with how great the X-Man Galaxy is. I stopped for half hour or so but intend to keep going to see how close I can get to globally sub 2 minute by October. I did capture a sub 2:30 average on film this afternoon too and at the risk of putting people into a deep megaminx induced sleep, here goes


----------



## Chree (Aug 11, 2016)

At work, on my morning break, doing some 3x3 while waiting for my breakfast. I hate it when my break ends just before I can roll the best averages in a session. I don't practice 3x3 nearly enough lately, and this is the best I've done in quite a while.

(16.08), 13.53, 14.61, 15.05, 11.54, 13.61, 13.40, *11.96, (10.61), 12.88, [14.62], 11.50*
Ao5: 12.11
Ao12: 13.27

Came at the very end of a 13.90 Ao25. Slowly getting back to where I was before my 5x5/Megaminx obsession escalated.




CLL Smooth said:


> Been meaning to practice mega for upcoming Oregon comp but I've been pretty busy. Inspired by your recent progress and this post I just did an Ao5: 2:28.72 with a pb single: 2:05.29!
> I recommend to not stop at sub-2:30 with your progress.



Bro... git dat sub2. I imagine your Oregon results will be pretty nice.


----------



## Selkie (Aug 12, 2016)

@Chree : Very nice Chris, any of those skips? Have to say I tend to improve most coming off breaks or a switch to other puzzles


----------



## teacher77 (Aug 12, 2016)

JanW said:


> In 2-look PLL you tell the difference by seeing if you have opposite color corners on front or left. When you get used to it, it shouldn't add to recognition time at all.



good point. But at the time, I didn't know the alg either.




JanW said:


> It gets even easier in 1-look PLL when there are only 2 colors/side and no 3rd color edge piece to confuse you.



What do you mean ?




JanW said:


> I do a regrip with left hand before starting an A perm. This regrip provides the extra split second needed to recognize which A perm it is.



Good advice, thanks


----------



## teacher77 (Aug 12, 2016)

MarcelP said:


> I wrote an app to practice Last layer algs. Check my signature for the link.



Thanks ! I noticed it has option to practice a subset of PLLs ! But although it's very good to practice execution, it kindda spoils recognition by showing both the name of the PLL and the black arrows on the cube. Maybe a nice option in a future version would be a display that only says "this PLL" and shows no arrows. Another interesting option would be an automatic start of the timer at the very instant when the PLL gets displayed : that way, one would have to recognize it, then execute the alg, and could time the delay for both. Or, with the same option, one could only time the delay for recognition and stop the timer instead of performing the alg !


----------



## teacher77 (Aug 12, 2016)

Jason Green said:


> I only used one A when I did 2 look also. Then when I started trying OH a little I was doing it too, but I've quit that now. Although I'm usually 2 look for OH still.
> 
> I meant sub 2 execution. Of course during solves hopefully you start being able to look ahead from OLL to PLL. I'm not very good at that though.



Sub 2 exec seems like a nice goal  Although I have no clue how I could be any faster.

As for looking ahead during OLL, that's something I'm totally UNable to do at the moment. I tend to perform my 2look OLL as fast as I can and the only looking ahead it leaves me is during the last 2 moves or so of the OLL alg. At most I can see one side. Not enough to have any idea of the PLL I'll be getting, unless I happen to see a 3bar or something.


----------



## Jason Green (Aug 12, 2016)

teacher77 said:


> Sub 2 exec seems like a nice goal  Although I have no clue how I could be any faster.
> 
> As for looking ahead during OLL, that's something I'm totally able to do at the moment. I tend to perform my 2look OLL as fast as I can and the only looking ahead it leaves me is during the last 2 moves or so of the OLL alg. At most I can see one side. Not enough to have any idea of the PLL I'll be getting, unless I happen to see a 3bar or something.



You'll get faster. Just practice is mainly the only way (unless you pick up an alg better suited for you or something). 

The recognition of PLL I think is just practice too. It gets embedded into your "subconscious" in a sense to where you just know them without thinking. It happens to me rarely, where during OLL I just realize the PLL that's coming and I'm not sure how. Kind of pattern recognition of the whole LL state at once I suppose. Similar to how second nature driving becomes I guess. You don't have to consider where the brake pedal is, your mind just wants to brake and the car magically responds.


----------



## Chree (Aug 12, 2016)

Selkie said:


> @Chree : Very nice Chris, any of those skips? Have to say I tend to improve most coming off breaks or a switch to other puzzles



I think the best single might've had a lucky Xcross and easy LL. And another PLL skip in there somewhere.

And yeah, def... I like to bounce around a lot for that reason... I just have to remember to bounce back to 3x3 more often.


----------



## JanW (Aug 12, 2016)

teacher77 said:


> What do you mean ?


I meant recognition of A perm is easier in 1-look pll than 2-look pll. When you do 2-look and use A perm on many different cases, the edge pieces can be anywhere and you have to look at only corners for recognition. When the A perm comes up in 1-look pll, the edges form 2x1 blocks with inner corner (on the sides you most likely look at to recognise it), so there are only 2 colors/side. You don't need to look which side has opposite color corners, just look which side has opposite colors.


----------



## teacher77 (Aug 12, 2016)

JanW said:


> I meant recognition of A perm is easier in 1-look pll than 2-look pll. When you do 2-look and use A perm on many different cases, the edge pieces can be anywhere and you have to look at only corners for recognition. When the A perm comes up in 1-look pll, the edges form 2x1 blocks with inner corner (on the sides you most likely look at to recognise it), so there are only 2 colors/side. You don't need to look which side has opposite color corners, just look which side has opposite colors.



Don't you have to locate the headlights also ? I always rercognize A perms by the headlights and the two 2x1 blocks which form a solved corner. With that corner in the FLU position, if the headlights are on the right I know it's an Ab and if they're on the back I know it's an Aa.


----------



## mark49152 (Aug 12, 2016)

teacher77 said:


> Don't you have to locate the headlights also ? I always rercognize A perms by the headlights and the two 2x1 blocks which form a solved corner. With that corner in the FLU position, if the headlights are on the right I know it's an Ab and if they're on the back I know it's an Aa.


With that block facing you, look at the adjacent corner stickers. One will be an opposite colour, the other will be an adjacent colour. The headlights are on the side opposite the opposite coloured corners. You don't have to look.


----------



## Selkie (Aug 12, 2016)

So bored you all to death with Megaminx. More PBs today for single, ao5 and a012 but havent posted any 3x3 for a long while so here is a sub 15 Ao12 to ease the megaminx overload 

Megaminx Single PB: 2:09.53
Megaminx Ao5 PB: 2:21.29
Megaminx Ao12 PB: 2:28.04
Megaminx Ao50 Session PB: 2:31.85


----------



## JanW (Aug 12, 2016)

teacher77 said:


> Don't you have to locate the headlights also ? I always rercognize A perms by the headlights and the two 2x1 blocks which form a solved corner. With that corner in the FLU position, if the headlights are on the right I know it's an Ab and if they're on the back I know it's an Aa.


Here are both A perms, looking at L and F faces from the direction you are likely to solve it:







One of them has opposite colors (red&orange) on the left, the other has opposite colors on the front. This determines the direction. No need to check for headlights.


----------



## teacher77 (Aug 12, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> With that block facing you, look at the adjacent corner stickers. One will be an opposite colour, the other will be an adjacent colour. The headlights are on the side opposite the opposite coloured corners. You don't have to look.



ahhhh very nice. But anyway you usually have to AUF to start the Aa perm with the headlights on the back / the Ab with headlights on the front. That confirms that they are there, doesn't it ?


----------



## mark49152 (Aug 12, 2016)

teacher77 said:


> ahhhh very nice. But anyway you usually have to AUF to start the Aa perm with the headlights on the back / the Ab with headlights on the front. That confirms that they are there, doesn't it ?


If you see them anyway, great, but if checking would cost you a pause, there's no need for it.


----------



## h2f (Aug 12, 2016)

Selkie said:


> So bored you all to death with Megaminx. More PBs today for single, ao5 and a012 but havent posted any 3x3 for a long while so here is a sub 15 Ao12 to ease the megaminx overload
> 
> Megaminx Single PB: 2:09.53
> Megaminx Ao5 PB: 2:21.29
> ...



I'm also practicing megaminx. After 100 measured times I'm 4:xx solver but today I've broken sub4 barrier with ao5 and ao12.


----------



## teacher77 (Aug 12, 2016)

JanW said:


> Here are both A perms, looking at L and F faces from the direction you are likely to solve it:



Is there actually an alg allowing to solve the Aa perm when the headlights are not in front ?


----------



## JanW (Aug 12, 2016)

teacher77 said:


> Is there actually an alg allowing to solve the Aa perm when the headlights are not in front ?


For both A perms I use the first alg listed on algdb.net:

http://algdb.net/Set/PLL

Both done with the solved 2x2 block in front left.


----------



## JanW (Aug 12, 2016)

Some hardcore cube-nerd might have noticed in my picture above that I brought out a blast from the past, my good old stickerless Zhanchi. Cleaned it and lubed it, then I liked it so much that I did the first Ao100 in over a month, and also my first ever Ao100 with basic CFOP (2-look OLL, 1-look PLL). Got a bunch of new pbs:

Ao12: 25.17
Ao50: 26.64
Ao100: 27.51

Ao12 improved by about 0.3 seconds, Ao50 and Ao100 by over 1 second each. Didn't quite reach my pb Ao5 and didn't get close to pb single. Only one sub-20 solve. The bigger averages improved mainly because times were a lot more consistent than they ever were with ZZ. With ZZ I had lots of really bad solves if I messed up the EOLine, no such problem with a standard cross.

Funny that most of my pbs now are done with the Zhanchi, the very first speedcube I purchased. One could ask what was the point with the 20 cubes I've bought since then... One thing I know for sure, I should have bought some Traxxas lube a long time ago. It has really made a massive difference to every cube I've applied it to so far.


----------



## Chree (Aug 12, 2016)

Selkie said:


> So bored you all to death with Megaminx....



Impossible!

Nice average tho


----------



## newtonbase (Aug 12, 2016)

My 7 year old has decided that she's going to learn to solve. Stage 1 of her plan is to get used to the cube by drinking hot chocolate out of my Rubik's Cube mug. There doesn't appear to be a stage 2.


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## Selkie (Aug 13, 2016)

If it is the usual square rubiks cube mug then learning how to 'solve' drinking from it without dribbling is a commendable trait. Master that and I am sure the cross will be childsplay mate


----------



## newtonbase (Aug 13, 2016)

Selkie said:


> If it is the usual square rubiks cube mug then learning how to 'solve' drinking from it without dribbling is a commendable trait. Master that and I am sure the cross will be childsplay mate


It's a nightmare isn't it. You can never drain it all either and drinks go cold too quickly but it does look good.


----------



## JanW (Aug 13, 2016)

Selkie said:


> If it is the usual square rubiks cube mug then learning how to 'solve' drinking from it without dribbling is a commendable trait. Master that and I am sure the cross will be childsplay mate


The solution is very easy. You just have to think outside the box.


Spoiler



Use a straw.


----------



## muchacho (Aug 13, 2016)

3x3 Mo100 PB: 21.430 (was 21.744 from 3 weeks ago)

My goal was getting a sub-20 Mo100 by the end of September... was too ambitious, but maybe a sub-21.


----------



## Jason Green (Aug 13, 2016)

Had new PBs for all my averages except 5 today. Nice to see some quantifiable improvement.


----------



## h2f (Aug 13, 2016)

@muchacho, @Jason Green Nice and congrats!


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## Jason Green (Aug 13, 2016)

muchacho said:


> 3x3 Mo100 PB: 21.430 (was 21.744 from 3 weeks ago)
> 
> My goal was getting a sub-20 Mo100 by the end of September... was too ambitious, but maybe a sub-21.


You posted this right as I was close to finishing mine.  If you feel like I was trying to one up your post, feel free to go ahead and remind us of your OH, 2x2, etc averages that blow me away.


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## muchacho (Aug 13, 2016)

Haha I know it wasn't the case 



Spoiler



It's the other way around, today I was in fact focused to try to beat that now old 21.20 Ao100 of yours 
Mo50 was like 20.70 but then the light got too dark outside.


Spoiler



Keep improving so I can chase you!


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## teacher77 (Aug 14, 2016)

Hey guys,

Please let me use your experience again  As I said before, I'm currently learning the 21 pll algs (I have 13 down, 8 to go). But I have yet to see any increase in my averages : with 2look PLL, my session averages (any session with more than 10 solves) was between 40 and 43 sec.. and with half the PLL algs in the bank, I'm only down to 39-42 sec.

What was your experience while learning PLLs ? Did you improve your times right away or did it take time like it seems to be happening for me ?

As I side note, I learned the complicated F perm today and I'm quite proud to say that the only algs I still have to learn are the G, R, Y and V perms


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## Jason Green (Aug 14, 2016)

@teacher77 The improvement from full PLL is not totally instant, partly because you are learning new skills to recognize more things and getting comfortable with the algs. Once all is equal on those fronts, you can essentially do math to know how much faster a given case is. In other words say you had two looks, you could add up the two alg execution times, plus two recognition times, and compare that to recognising and executing one alg. Of course not all cases need two looks in the first place. And your overall f2l time etc will be improving at the same time. So it's hard to know how quickly it impacts your overall average. 

So that was wordy and probably incomplete. But yes for me my times even got a little worse and then started improving. In fact when I learned new algs and did timed practice, if that alg came up I would not count the time. Otherwise I would be tempted to do the 2 look version and not practice what I was learning.


----------



## muchacho (Aug 14, 2016)

If times bother you, before using them in speedsolves use some tool to practice them until you are at least as fast with them as 2-look or use them when doing slow solves.

At least for me it takes time to be fast with new algs (I'm still 10 algs away from full CMLL), like a few weeks, maybe partly because I don't do much slow solves and I don't like practicing algs.


----------



## teacher77 (Aug 14, 2016)

@Jason Green 

Thanks ! Do you recall how much time it took before your times actually improved ?


----------



## mark49152 (Aug 14, 2016)

teacher77 said:


> Do you recall how much time it took before your times actually improved ?


My 2 cents is this. You're making an investment, learning things that will pay off later, and it all gets absorbed into the big picture. Actually at 40 seconds PLL is not the main factor. You could do 1000 solves to bed your PLLs in, but at the end of that, the improvement that you see might be as much down to 1000 solves of F2L practice as your new PLLs themselves. When you hit 30 or 20 and look back on your progress, it won't feel like it was mostly down to learning X or learning Y. It will just feel like you know the cube way better and it will all feel so much easier and automatic, like riding a bike. That's why you sometimes see fast guys on here saying they are sub-12 with 4 look or whatever. Their point is not that you shouldn't learn PLL, it's that familiarity and skill with the cube is more important than alg sets.

Also, doing drills, untimed solves and targeted practice is always worthwhile IMHO.


----------



## JanW (Aug 14, 2016)

@teacher77 I can't really compare my own PLL learning progress to your case. I started learning full PLL at the same time I switched to ZZ. While learning PLL my averages were steadily dropping, but this was probably mostly because I was getting used to the other parts of the ZZ solve. But now, about 6 weeks after learning the last PLL agls, my PLL is definitely faster than it was before learning to 1-look it.

In a way it is expected that your PLL times should temporarily go down while learning full PLL. If you now have 8 alsgs left to go, that's 7 new cases learned, right? The 7 cases you learned could be slightly faster already. But for the remaining 8, you currently have an extra look to see if it's a PLL case you already know, before you look for how to solve it with 2-look PLL. Recognition and execution of a new alg is never really fast either, but gets faster quickly with practice.


----------



## phreaker (Aug 14, 2016)

teacher77 said:


> Is there actually an alg allowing to solve the Aa perm when the headlights are not in front ?


Should be able to with the headlights on the side, or top, same with A(b). I do one of them with headlights on the bottom, other corner on top right, and the other is lights on the left, and the other corner top right. Works pretty well OH. I've played with doing them both from the side, but meh. I like this pair. I've played with headlights on top, and the corner to be fixed on right bottom.

Realize, I solve OH almost exclusively, when reading this. (Maybe 1 solve in 10 now a days is 2H?)


----------



## JanW (Aug 14, 2016)

A wasted opportunity. CFOP LL skip, 19.08. Still CFOP pb single, but could have been much better. Oh well, I'll do better next time I get an LL skip, in 15000 solves...

Didn't manage to reconstruct my solve.


----------



## Jason Green (Aug 14, 2016)

teacher77 said:


> @Jason Green
> 
> Thanks ! Do you recall how much time it took before your times actually improved ?


I agree with everyone that during the time you're learning you'll be improving on other aspects so it's hard to quantify what the alg set counts for.

Say I was learning two new algs though. I'd say within about a week if those cases came up I would feel I was at least as fast as two look to recall and execute. Maybe another week and I'd feel like I was saving time, again just for those two algs. I'm going off my bad memory, but something like that. I learned PLL a lot faster than OLL.


----------



## h2f (Aug 14, 2016)

Talking about Aperm - you can do this from any angle with headlights on any side due to fact it's always a commutator with a setup. Some of these comms are faster and easier to fingertrick and some dont. Just talking...


----------



## phreaker (Aug 14, 2016)

h2f said:


> Talking about Aperm - you can do this from any angle with headlights on any side due to fact it's always a commutator with a setup. Some of these comms are faster and easier to fingertrick and some dont. Just talking...



I don't commutator them. I just mirror them to the angle I want.

To be clear: I like lights on left, and bottom, for A(a) and A(b) OH right now. (Which is which I always forget.)

You'd be looking at:

Lights on left:
x' U' R U' L2 U R' U' L2 U2

In reality, there's another rotation of the cube in there for me, because I do U2 as a R2, as I do the end L2 as U2.

Lights on right:
x' U L' U R2 U' L U R2 U2

I've tried this alg.. it's not as good... Doesn't work for me, vs. lights on bottom.

Lights on bottom:
x' R U' R D2 R' U R D2 R2

Lights on top:
x' R' D R' U2 R D' R' U2 R2

I don't like this one much... It isn't "bad" but, it isn't as good as lights on left.


----------



## h2f (Aug 14, 2016)

phreaker said:


> I don't commutator them. I just mirror them to the angle I want.



I do the same. I like A perm with x rotation and setup to D layer with R2 or R' U R' in other version (setup with cancelation) but it's personal choice. There are plenty ways A perms can be done.

Edit: I use this an the inverse: x R' U R' D2 R U' R' D2 R2 x'


----------



## EvilGnome6 (Aug 15, 2016)

Hi all. Just dropping by to share my results from AZCubing Summer 2016.

2x2 was awful. I ended up with a 10.21 average and my best single was a 6.55:





3x3 was good. I made it to the second round and got a 19.24 single and a new PB average of 22.02:





4x4 was very good. I got a new PB single of 1:04.29 and PB average of 1:09.73. 





7x7 was a bit sub-par for me but considering I shaved about one and a half minutes off my last official times, I won't complain. I had a 7:01.71 mean and a 6:53 single:


----------



## mark49152 (Aug 15, 2016)

Nice solves Mike


----------



## Jason Green (Aug 15, 2016)

Great job Mike, I'm gonna make it to one some day.


----------



## teacher77 (Aug 15, 2016)

JanW said:


> A wasted opportunity. CFOP LL skip, 19.08. Still CFOP pb single, but could have been much better. Oh well, I'll do better next time I get an LL skip, in 15000 solves...
> 
> Didn't manage to reconstruct my solve.



The same happened to me last week and I got a crappy 24.95 s... Without the LL skip, this would have been an above average time. It's a shame that this poor solve is now my PB single.


----------



## muchacho (Aug 15, 2016)

Very nice, Mike!

I think in every comp there is always some kid in your videos that look both surprised and happy to see how fast an oldie can be, how cute.

Regarding A-perms, these are mine, anyone use any of them? (I do for BLD and I think I like them)
Lw R D2 R' U' R D2 R' U Lw'
Lw U' R D2 R' U R D2 R' Lw'

_edit: oh, it seems Grzegorz does.
edit2: maybe not._


----------



## newtonbase (Aug 15, 2016)

muchacho said:


> Very nice, Mike!





muchacho said:


> I think in every comp there is always some kid in your videos that look both surprised and happy to see how fast an oldie can be, how cute.
> 
> Regarding A-perms, these are mine, anyone use any of them? (I do for BLD and I think I like them)
> Lw R D2 R' U' R D2 R' U Lw'
> ...


They feel nice. I've been using the same A-perms since day 1 but I've only recently realised how crappy they are. 
Well done @EvilGnome6


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## h2f (Aug 15, 2016)

@EvilGnome6, Mike good job!



muchacho said:


> Very nice, Mike!
> 
> I think in every comp there is always some kid in your videos that look both surprised and happy to see how fast an oldie can be, how cute.
> 
> ...



Yeah, I do them and fingertrick in the way you wrote. I wrote it in a standard way. I like comm it's based on.


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## One Wheel (Aug 15, 2016)

muchacho said:


> Regarding A-perms, these are mine, anyone use any of them? (I do for BLD and I think I like them)
> Lw R D2 R' U' R D2 R' U Lw'
> Lw U' R D2 R' U R D2 R' Lw'
> 
> ...



I use the second one except finish with an R2. The R' Lw' would preserve the orientation of the cube, which obviously matters more for blind than regular, but you can also finish with R2 x for the same result. 

I've been working on blind, and while I haven't actually attempted a whole solve yet it feels like I'll get a successful solve in the next week and a half or two weeks. Two and a half weeks to the competition!


----------



## muchacho (Aug 15, 2016)

Good luck, probably I won't compete in next 6 months so no hurry, but I'll try to be ready by Christmas.


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## EvilGnome6 (Aug 15, 2016)

muchacho said:


> I think in every comp there is always some kid in your videos that look both surprised and happy to see how fast an oldie can be, how cute.



Ha! I kept screwing up on 2x2 and the judge was happy I finally had a proper solve.


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## SenorJuan (Aug 16, 2016)

Hey! Is anyone in school today??

oh...sorry, wrong thread, meant to post in the Delinquent Youth Thread or whatever it's called.

Back on topic, gotta say I'm starting to suffer 'hobby clash' symptoms. It's that time of year when farm crops are harvested, and keen Metal Detectorists like myself take the opportunity to get digging. But it's hard on your hands. Dry skin from scrubbing off the dirt, cuts from the stubble, tiredness from digging....
Why don't you wear gloves, then?, I hear you say. I do sometimes, but they're a bit cumbersome. And thin latex surgical gloves aren't tough enough, plus they make you look like you're about to rectally examine someone.
Anyone else find other activities don't go well with cubing? Gardeners? Weightlifters?


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## Jason Green (Aug 16, 2016)

I'm a bowler and that was my main hobby for almost 20 years, but cubing has surpassed it for now at least. One of the biggest things I like more about cubing is that I can practice anytime much more easily. When I was younger I used to bowl for many hours a week. Now it's just one or maybe two leagues a week most of the time (took this summer off). 

The other thing I like better is the friendliness of the competitions, and the fact that you compete right along with some of the best in the world. If you bowl in a scratch tournament (which I enjoy and did some even though I'm not really good enough) I felt quite out of place.


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## newtonbase (Aug 16, 2016)

SenorJuan said:


> Anyone else find other activities don't go well with cubing


Do parenthood, work or sleep count because they take up the first 27 hours of a normal day between them?


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## teacher77 (Aug 16, 2016)

SenorJuan said:


> Anyone else find other activities don't go well with cubing? Gardeners? Weightlifters?



1) parenhood
2) having a non cuber girlfriend
3) weightlifting, definitly ! Cubing involves holding both arms horizontal in the air. It didn't seem obvious until I tried cubing right after a workout. I hardly managed to finish a series of 12.
4) teaching. If I bring my cube to college, all those kids want to learn how to cube instead of just focusing on the class material. :-D


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## Jason Green (Aug 16, 2016)

teacher77 said:


> 1) parenhood
> 2) having a non cuber girlfriend
> 3) weightlifting, definitly ! Cubing involves holding both arms horizontal in the air. It didn't seem obvious until I tried cubing right after a workout. I hardly managed to finish a series of 12.
> 4) teaching. If I bring my cube to college, all those kids want to learn how to cube instead of just focusing on the class material. :-D


I don't think I could pass up number 4.


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## teacher77 (Aug 16, 2016)

Jason Green said:


> I don't think I could pass up number 4.



Meaning that you also teach ?


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## Jason Green (Aug 16, 2016)

teacher77 said:


> Meaning that you also teach ?


No but if I did.  I try to teach anyone I can about cubing.


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## teacher77 (Aug 16, 2016)

Jason Green said:


> No but if I did.  I try to teach anyone I can about cubing.



So do I ! It kinnda comes in conflict with me teaching them physics, though ;-)


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## Jason Green (Aug 16, 2016)

Got a PB ao5, made a round in the race to sub 20, and had 44 of 71 solves under 20. I think the first time I was over half that I knew of. Although I probably was the other day but it was on my phone and there is no good way to count and it's crashing when I try to go in the history (oh well).

@MarcelP I think you predicted a couple of months ago I'd be sub 20 in a few weeks, so see I'm not moving as fast as you thought.  Still got a ways to go but it's close.

Actually the other day when I had a good ao100 I think I did my first ever legit practice session on anything besides 3x3 that night. I only did 4x4 that night for an hour or so. Anyway, I'm gonna do my normal two or three 4x4 solves now before bed.


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## teacher77 (Aug 16, 2016)

omg guys : this is a hell of a day !

I just got a new Ao10+ PB... THREE times in the same evening.
Up to yesterday my PB was 38.47 sec. ( I think it was a series of 15)
And today...
At 5pm i did 37.57 sec for 13 solves.
At 9pm i did 37.28 sec for 14 solves.
At 2am i did 36.51 sec for 10 solves.

And the worse part is that the last of those three series was done 1) tired, 2) a little drunk, 3) using an Aolong v2 instead of my usual weilong GTS. Kindda makes me think about changing my main cube !

But anyway, I guess that my main point is that learning all those PLLs is finally starting to pay off ! And i still have to learn the G, R and Y perms !


----------



## Logiqx (Aug 16, 2016)

teacher77 said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> Please let me use your experience again  As I said before, I'm currently learning the 21 pll algs (I have 13 down, 8 to go). But I have yet to see any increase in my averages : with 2look PLL, my session averages (any session with more than 10 solves) was between 40 and 43 sec.. and with half the PLL algs in the bank, I'm only down to 39-42 sec.
> 
> ...


Like people say it's an investment and it takes time to pay off. I used to reckon it took me around a dozen uses in real solves before I could quickly recall an alg and execute it smoothly.

PLLs typically turn up 1/18 solves so they turn up pretty frequently. OLLs typically turn up 1/54 solves so that feels like a bigger step. COLLs turn up 1/324 without edge control but I've reduced that to ~1/162 with the best of VHLS. My COLL recognition and execution has taken a long time to bed in due to the frequency of them occurring but they are getting a lot better.

When I learned to cube I was reluctant to learn 4LLL. I never intended to learn the rarer PLLs either. I resolutely told myself that I would never learn full OLL. I've finally learnt not to use the world "never".

Keep learning. It'll pay off!

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk


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## JohnnyReggae (Aug 16, 2016)

SenorJuan said:


> Anyone else find other activities don't go well with cubing?


Mountain unicycling ... I do have a free hand while riding so technically I could do OH, although it is usually being waved around madly especially when taking drops and riding off things which would make solving rather difficult  and it's the wrong hand for OH for me ...

Juggling ... I have seen a video of someone solving 3 cubes while juggling them, but my OH is not at that level and juggling 2 balls in 1 hand while solving with the other is kinda boring. Technically I could juggle 5 cubes


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## MarcelP (Aug 16, 2016)

Jason Green said:


> @MarcelP I think you predicted a couple of months ago I'd be sub 20 in a few weeks, so see I'm not moving as fast as you thought.  Still got a ways to go but it's close.



Still way faster than me  Was only around 30 secs in a whole year of practice. (And I practiced a lot  ) No worries Jason, you are not even at you first big plateau yet... I have been where I am now for more than a year (or longer). I feel there might come a growth spurt soon though..


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## JohnnyReggae (Aug 16, 2016)

Jason Green said:


> Got a PB ao5, made a round in the race to sub 20, and had 44 of 71 solves under 20. I think the first time I was over half that I knew of. Although I probably was the other day but it was on my phone and there is no good way to count and it's crashing when I try to go in the history (oh well).


Sub 20 has been a milestone for me and I have been counting the number of sub 20's I get during my solves and work out a percentage. It has been great to see that percentage increase. It is in fact one of the specific stats I keep for myself. Started that in January with a 24% sub 20 solves .... July was 67% 

Edit: had to go and check ...

Jan - 24%
Feb - 37%
Mar - 41%
Apr - 48%
May - 49%
Jun - 55%
Jul - 67 %
Aug - 69% (so far)


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## mafergut (Aug 16, 2016)

Hi guys! Took a long weekend off cubing (went to visit some family). Sorry I missed the race to sub-X at 2x2 this week David @muchacho. Will try to do it this week.

Also I'm preparing a new unboxing, but still need to receive some cubes.

Regarding sub-20 % of solves I also used to record that stat and my PB for that was 81% back in February this year. I have only done a proper Ao100 since then and it was in May with a 77,6% (97 out of 125 solves). Not really recording my solves lately maybe due to lack of motivation on 3x3 and more and more of my practice time going to big cubes.


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## muchacho (Aug 16, 2016)

I've searched my last 500 solves for sub-20s.

Last 100 solves: 36
-100/-200: 26
-200/-300: 33
-300/-400: 24
-400/-500: 21

I wish sup-30 % were 0.


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## muchacho (Aug 16, 2016)

mafergut said:


> Sorry I missed the race to sub-X at 2x2 this week David @muchacho. Will try to do it this week.


I wish I had missed it too (8.776 average), I'm not practicing 2x2, I guess I'll try to graduate to sub-7 and then I'll stop doing 2x2 for a while.


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## muchacho (Aug 16, 2016)

12.166 single (old PB was 13.831)

I have to go so I can't reconstruct now, but I guess I'll be able later, because it was super easy.


*edit*: did I say it was super easy? 34 STM 

25560 16-ago-2016 10:50:07 00:12.166 B2 F2 D2 R2 U' B2 R2 L2 U F2 D L' D U' F' D R' U2 R F2 L D'



Spoiler: reconstruction



x
M' Uw2 U B U F'
M' U R U R2 U' R'
U' F R2 D R' U R D' R2' U' F'
M2 U M' U M' U2 M' U' M2 U

https://alg.cubing.net/?setup=B2_F2_D2_R2_U-_B2_R2_L2_U_F2_D_L-_D_U-_F-_D_R-_U2_R_F2_L_D-&alg=x M-_Uw2_U_B_U_F- M-_U_R_U_R2_U-_R- U-_F_R2_D_R-_U_R_D-_R2-_U-_F- M2_U_M-_U_M-_U2_M-_U-_M2_U



2.79 TPS


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## mafergut (Aug 16, 2016)

Very nice single, David. That would be top 3 single for me, just a couple 11s better than that. You're catching up on all fronts... except on OH, where you already beat me 

By the way, The Valk already on pre-order... just sayin'


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## h2f (Aug 16, 2016)

muchacho said:


> 12.166 single (old PB was 13.831)
> 
> I have to go so I can't reconstruct now, but I guess I'll be able later, because it was super easy.
> 
> ...


Awsome. Nice and congrats

Edit: funny thing with Roux is that it's still full step.


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## Jason Green (Aug 16, 2016)

David you passed me on that! I don't see me beating mine anytime soon. I get a 13 every once in a while but my 12.83 still seems extra lucky.

Great job!


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## muchacho (Aug 16, 2016)

Thanks! You'll get it back, I only have this 12 and the previous PB as only 13, and very few 14s. It took me 3 months to beat the 13.83 and I'm not expecting to beat this in less than 6-12 months


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## Selkie (Aug 16, 2016)

h2f said:


> I'm also practicing megaminx. After 100 measured times I'm 4:xx solver but today I've broken sub4 barrier with ao5 and ao12.



Nice to see the megaminx race is still going. Strange as I think it is having a positive effect on 3x3 too. Not used to holding a puzzle so easy to hold after the megaminx I guess 



Jason Green said:


> Had new PBs for all my averages except 5 today. Nice to see some quantifiable improvement.



Wow, so so close Jason. Hopfully teh next Ao100 and you will be there 



teacher77 said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> Please let me use your experience again  As I said before, I'm currently learning the 21 pll algs (I have 13 down, 8 to go). But I have yet to see any increase in my averages : with 2look PLL, my session averages (any session with more than 10 solves) was between 40 and 43 sec.. and with half the PLL algs in the bank, I'm only down to 39-42 sec.
> 
> ...



I would just echo what the other have eloquently already said. Initially times will suffer, especially until you know them all as there s still the question of getting a PLL you dont know and having to two look it. Persevere and you will see improvement soon


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## h2f (Aug 16, 2016)

Selkie said:


> Nice to see the megaminx race is still going. Strange as I think it is having a positive effect on 3x3 too. Not used to holding a puzzle so easy to hold after the megaminx I guess



Yes it has a possitive effect. Since I wrote it I got 3:01 pb and a lot of 3:xx solves.

Today I've set a lubed my Thunderclap v2. It seems working better.


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## Selkie (Aug 16, 2016)

Some more Megaminx PBs for average and single on film. The 2:02.xy had terrible LL recognition. Since my EP comes before and messes up my CP I need to learn teh EP only algs. That could have been low 1:50s!


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## Jason Green (Aug 16, 2016)

Chris, other YouTubers. In case you didn't figure out the code, when I like your video post on the forum it means I'm excited to watch it. When I like it on YouTube I watched it.


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## teacher77 (Aug 16, 2016)

teacher77 said:


> omg guys : this is a hell of a day !
> 
> I just got a new Ao10+ PB... THREE times in the same evening.
> Up to yesterday my PB was 38.47 sec. ( I think it was a series of 15)
> ...



Beleive it or not, this hollywood sequel keeps going on :

At 4pm i did 34.81 sec for 10 solves.


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## h2f (Aug 16, 2016)

I'm breaking in my Thunderclap v2 and the session finished with 19.02 ao50 (new pb) and 19.60 ao100 due to bad ending. I had all the time ao12 sub20 till last 10 solves. I was tired (and got few drinks  ) and over 20 ao12 showed its face after 98 solves. Still thunderclap needs some work.


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## SenorJuan (Aug 16, 2016)

I've just got my first Last Layer skip of the year, my last one was in February 2015. Needless to say I was doing slow untimed solves at the time, just like last time, so nothing exciting resulted from it. Oh well...
I was doing some full-speed OH first 2 layers practice earlier, and got one of those 'two for the price of one' F2L slots which usually surprise/confuse me.
With last layer on U face, do: R' U' R2 U R' U'
I didn't see the pair for the FR slot, but the BR slot was spotted and swiftly solved (with the reverse of the above) leaving me wondering what happened...it was a decent 15 seconds first two layers, with a 16 and a couple of 17's also in the session.
If only it was easy to manipulate slot-solving to affect the next slot (multi-slotting) - but you've only got to look at sites like Sebastien Felix' one (absolute mind) to realise it's fiendishly difficult. I can do a bit of it slowly for FMC purposes, but at speed???
http://absolutemind.pagesperso-orange.fr/ms-angl.html


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## mark49152 (Aug 17, 2016)

@SenorJuan - Yes I got excited about multislotting when I first discovered it but it is indeed difficult. I went through all the cases and identified the ones with the greatest saving - that is, inserting pair A slightly differently than the obvious default way will convert pair B from a long-winded case into a formed pair ready to insert. There are only a handful of those. I did start learning them but forgot them a long time ago because my recognition is too slow. I can dig them out if anyone's interested.


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## SenorJuan (Aug 17, 2016)

In principle, for my favoured OH solving, tricks like multislotting should be more viable, due to the slower turning, but I guess the slower brain makes it un-viable. I remember when one of the Dzoan brothers (edit:Chris) set a OH record (about 12 sec) it was in part attributed to multislotting. But now, I think good use of empty slots is a much more realistic way to reduce move-count. If you're doing 'intuitive' solving, you can, and *should* consider empty slots as part of the learning process.
Though I haven't analysed it 'scientifically', I think my first two layers move-count is about 32 turns (htm), which is what is considered normal for this process, so I don't think I'm doing anything significantly wrong.


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## Lid (Aug 17, 2016)

Doing Megaminx also here...
First real a12 with the Xman - 1:56.34, 2:01.61, 1:50.68, 1:51.94, 1:58.02, 1:49.08, 1:59.69, 1:54.93, (2:09.31), (1:48.67), 2:05.13, 1:51.99 = 1:55.94 

There were some 1L-PLLs also, like a J, an odd Y, an odd T & a Q2 EP (in all I know 43/151 PLLs).


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## teacher77 (Aug 17, 2016)

Hey look at this ! At this rate, I'll be sub-20 before the end of september.

Kidding appart, I wonder what a realistic goal would be.


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## h2f (Aug 17, 2016)

teacher77 said:


> Hey look at this ! At this rate, I'll be sub-20 before the end of september.
> 
> Kidding appart, I wonder what a realistic goal would be.
> 
> View attachment 6734



It's up what you mean "being sub-20". Most people mean global averages (ao100, mo100, ao1000, mo1000) but singles are also nice and they show your progress. I think you can got sub20 solve any day. I remember me getting sub20 solve when my global avg was around 35-40. On the other hand - when I was globaly sub25 I got sub20 solve once per 30-40 solves.


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## mark49152 (Aug 17, 2016)

SenorJuan said:


> But now, I think good use of empty slots is a much more realistic way to reduce move-count. If you're doing 'intuitive' solving, you can, and *should* consider empty slots as part of the learning process.
> Though I haven't analysed it 'scientifically', I think my first two layers move-count is about 32 turns (htm), which is what is considered normal for this process, so I don't think I'm doing anything significantly wrong.


Yeah absolutely. IMHO, proficient F2L (2H) requires the ability to solve to all four slots without bias to FR, including the use of empty slots either to avoid rotations or to make the setups easier/shorter. Multislotting is certainly more advanced than that, although some basic techniques like preserving pairs, splitting nasty cases or extracting stuck pieces is relatively easy and good to know.

For pure F2L (excluding cross) I think 28 HTM is a good move count. I did do a scientific analysis once .


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## mark49152 (Aug 17, 2016)

h2f said:


> It's up what you mean "being sub-20". Most people mean global averages (ao100, mo100, ao1000, mo1000)


Yeah everyone seems to have their own definition so it's best to state what yours is rather than just say sub-20. For me, it's rolling ao1000, meaning average with best and worst 5% excluded. On a graph, I like to see my rolling ao100 line stay well below the ao1000 line. The delta between them is a kind of metric of improvement. If they converge too close, it shows I'm stagnating and should think about changing how I practise.

@h2f, I'm interested to know how you track BLD averages. The idea that a larger average doesn't count if it has more than one (or even 5%) DNFs is useless for performance tracking. I don't like to count sessions with poor accuracy because it favours spamming to get fast results, so I always throw away sessions with less than 50% accuracy. On the other hand, even with an accuracy target I have the temptation to DNF (or at least rush carelessly) poor solves in case I spoil my average and it seems wrong that there can be a benefit to bailing out of a solve. So what I started doing is deleting the worst 50% from each session, including DNFs and slowest times, and taking the average of what remains. That seems to give me a consistent measure of performance without penalising better accuracy. I try my best to complete every solve. If my accuracy ends up poor, the slower results drag my average down, but if I make up ground and achieve better accuracy I am rewarded by exclusion of some slower results. Thoughts?


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## h2f (Aug 17, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> @h2f, I'm interested to know how you track BLD averages. The idea that a larger average doesn't count if it has more than one (or even 5%) DNFs is useless for performance tracking. I don't like to count sessions with poor accuracy because it favours spamming to get fast results, so I always throw away sessions with less than 50% accuracy. On the other hand, even with an accuracy target I have the temptation to DNF (or at least rush carelessly) poor solves in case I spoil my average and it seems wrong that there can be a benefit to bailing out of a solve. So what I started doing is deleting the worst 50% from each session, including DNFs and slowest times, and taking the average of what remains. That seems to give me a consistent measure of performance without penalising better accuracy. I try my best to complete every solve. If my accuracy ends up poor, the slower results drag my average down, but if I make up ground and achieve better accuracy I am rewarded by exclusion of some slower results. Thoughts?



In fact I've stopped tracking it for the reasone I'm still not good in 3style and my accuracy is less than 40%. Last autumn Maskow sent me an excel sheet to track it. It counts few things but the idea is based on session mean which is count in this way: if your accuracy is over 50% than you delete the worst times (including DNFs) till you got 50% solves of the session. If your acc is lower of cours you must take lower mean of session times. But the most important thing - you must keep that ratio for whole time - in the sheet it was 14 days measured period. I think this is good idea and it goes on the line of your thoughts about it. Maskow wrote me that the reason is not to punish blinder for doing slow solves and take into account the best times. I hope you know what I mean. 

I think I'm ready to back to measure it. I'll start today: 20 solves per day, 30%ratio.


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## mark49152 (Aug 17, 2016)

@h2f, that is great to know, thanks! If Maskow does something similar then that's an endorsement. I will stick with 20 solves/day at 50% ratio. I will maybe lose a few sessions but I don't want to sacrifice my accuracy.


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## JohnnyReggae (Aug 17, 2016)

A while back I started modding cubes because I wanted to see if I could do it. Started off with a 2x2, 3x3, and 4x4 balls. So far of the 3 I have only finished the 4x4 ball. The 3x3 is close to being done, and the 2x2 I've written off as a failure.

Despite not finishing those I decided to start more  So started on 3x3, 4x4, and 5x5 barrels. So far I have only just finished the 5x5 barrel. The 3x3 and 4x4 and close to being done, just need to sand each piece individually, paint, and sticker.

So here is my 5x5 barrel (made from a Cyclone Boys 5x5) which I finished off last night. The stickering is such a tedious job and proportionally takes quite a bit of time, so I was so happy to eventually get it done. I'm really happy with the end result and has made all the work worth while. Can't wait to finish off the 3x3 and 4x4 barrels now though. Just need to find the time.

As far as solving goes .... I must say this is the first time I have solved a 5x5 super cube and it does present some interesting things to look out for an be aware of. No simple center building and having to resort to 3 piece swaps to eventually get that done. You also need to watch out for center rotations ... after doing a G perm I had a "solved" barrel with 1 center rotated 90 degrees ... still need to figure that one out.

   

Edit:
The collection I am currently modding .... most are more done than this photo but you get the idea


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## h2f (Aug 17, 2016)

Fine @mark49152 . He added also column with session mean (no matter accuracy). The second column is the one with 50%ratio (or 30% for me). Next avg's if you can do them. He said also that his acc. is around 60%. There's also column with best solve of the session.


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## mark49152 (Aug 17, 2016)

Thanks @h2f. 3BLD is coming along nicely. The last couple of days I have had averages sub 1:30.


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## h2f (Aug 17, 2016)

You are welcome, Mark. My averages are much better in last days and accuracy is growing to 50%. Close to sub1 single solve in every session.


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## JohnnyReggae (Aug 17, 2016)

Did an ao100 and broke almost all my PB's except single and mo3  Best single for the day 13.88

*ao5 = 15.93*
(14.95), 15.38, (18.96), 17.33, 15.07

*ao12 = 16.75*
17.11, (19.19), 16.31, (14.26), 16.37, 17.13, 18.90, 14.95, 15.38, 18.96, 17.33, 15.07 = 16.75

*ao100 = 17.88*

Today things just gelled ... tomorrow I suspect that I will have brain freeze and not be able to do anything properly


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## Jason Green (Aug 17, 2016)

teacher77 said:


> Hey look at this ! At this rate, I'll be sub-20 before the end of september.
> 
> Kidding appart, I wonder what a realistic goal would be.
> 
> View attachment 6734


Yeah when I started I said if I kept the pace I'd be faster than Feliks in several months. 

For just an average of > 10 sub 20 it will be much faster than globally, as others said. I won't think of myself as global sub 20 until virtually no solves are over 20 seconds (maybe < 5%). So that any type of average I do is more or less guaranteed to be sub 20. 

Who knows some kids get there in a matter of months. Most older cubers seem to be 1-2 years I think. Of course hours of practice is one of the biggest variables too.


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## teacher77 (Aug 17, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> Yeah everyone seems to have their own definition so it's best to state what yours is rather than just say sub-20. For me, it's rolling ao1000, meaning average with best and worst 5% excluded. On a graph, I like to see my rolling ao100 line stay well below the ao1000 line. The delta between them is a kind of metric of improvement. If they converge too close, it shows I'm stagnating and should think about changing how I practise.



Which software/website does averages of 1000 ?


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## mafergut (Aug 17, 2016)

teacher77 said:


> Which software/website does averages of 1000 ?


csTimer does, if you keep all the 1000 solves in the same session, which I rarely do. 

Sent from my Nexus 4 with Tapatalk


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## h2f (Aug 17, 2016)

mafergut said:


> csTimer does, if you keep all the 1000 solves in the same session, which I rarely do.
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 4 with Tapatalk



I have two sessions for 3x3 - one for practicing and doing ao100, second for every solve. After each session I copy times from the first to the second.


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## mark49152 (Aug 17, 2016)

teacher77 said:


> Which software/website does averages of 1000 ?


I use KingEn timer on Android


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## Selkie (Aug 17, 2016)

Jason Green said:


> Chris, other YouTubers. In case you didn't figure out the code, when I like your video post on the forum it means I'm excited to watch it. When I like it on YouTube I watched it.



Ah I didnt realise, will keep it in mind mate 



h2f said:


> I'm breaking in my Thunderclap v2 and the session finished with 19.02 ao50 (new pb) and 19.60 ao100 due to bad ending. I had all the time ao12 sub20 till last 10 solves. I was tired (and got few drinks  ) and over 20 ao12 showed its face after 98 solves. Still thunderclap needs some work.



Wow your CFOP seems to be coming on great on your return to it 



Lid said:


> Doing Megaminx also here...
> First real a12 with the Xman - 1:56.34, 2:01.61, 1:50.68, 1:51.94, 1:58.02, 1:49.08, 1:59.69, 1:54.93, (2:09.31), (1:48.67), 2:05.13, 1:51.99 = 1:55.94
> 
> There were some 1L-PLLs also, like a J, an odd Y, an odd T & a Q2 EP (in all I know 43/151 PLLs).



Wow, something to aim for myself. Thats a lot of PLLs. Think I can call myself sub 2:25 now but not letting up on concentration on megaminx. Ever film any of your solves?



mark49152 said:


> Yeah absolutely. IMHO, proficient F2L (2H) requires the ability to solve to all four slots without bias to FR, including the use of empty slots either to avoid rotations or to make the setups easier/shorter.



Couldn't agree with Mark more on this point. Well put.



JohnnyReggae said:


> Did an ao100 and broke almost all my PB's except single and mo3  Best single for the day 13.88
> 
> *ao5 = 15.93*
> (14.95), 15.38, (18.96), 17.33, 15.07
> ...



Looking great. Sorry to be ride but given the thread title, mind if I inquire how young you are? 

Megaminx!

Do feel I am globally sub 2:30 now and very nearly my first sub 2:20 ao12. Progression has slowed but feel there is room for more improvement before Guildford Open in October.

stats: (hide)
number of times: 35/35
best time: 2:05.64
worst time: 3:06.40

current avg5: 2:24.62 (σ = 2.98)
best avg5: 2:15.68 (σ = 5.11)

current avg12: 2:25.82 (σ = 7.19)
best avg12: 2:20.28 (σ = 6.00)

session avg: 2:24.36 (σ = 8.79)
session mean: 2:25.23


----------



## h2f (Aug 17, 2016)

Selkie said:


> Wow your CFOP seems to be coming on great on your return to it



Thanks Chris @Selkie. Yes it's fine and it was first ao100 after 2 weeks of break due to vacation time.

Going back to 3bld - 50% accuracy.


----------



## mark49152 (Aug 17, 2016)

h2f said:


> Going back to 3bld - 50% accuracy.


Good stuff. Without getting slower?


----------



## h2f (Aug 17, 2016)

First solves were slow but latter around 1:20 with 1:00. Still too much thinkig. 

Wysłane z mojego GT-S7580 przy użyciu Tapatalka


----------



## mark49152 (Aug 17, 2016)

h2f said:


> First solves were slow but latter around 1:20 with 1:00. Still too much thinkig.


Yeah it's hard to avoid thinking. I am using lots of setup moves and have to think about them a lot. I guess it will become easier when they become automatic, like OP is now.


----------



## h2f (Aug 17, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> Yeah it's hard to avoid thinking. I am using lots of setup moves and have to think about them a lot. I guess it will become easier when they become automatic, like OP is now.



Are you switching to 3style?


----------



## mark49152 (Aug 17, 2016)

h2f said:


> Are you switching to 3style?


Yes on corners I am now using 3style, with advanced M2 for edges.


----------



## h2f (Aug 17, 2016)

Nice. Advanced M2 isnt far from 3style.

Wysłane z mojego GT-S7580 przy użyciu Tapatalka


----------



## teacher77 (Aug 18, 2016)

Hey guys,

I just managed a 25.47 s and I think the last alg was an Aa or Ua perm so this time it's not an LL skip and I don't have to be ashamed ;-)

The shuffle was R2 D F2 D L2 D F2 D R2 B F2 D U' B' F2 L D R' U2 B

I tried a shot at reconstruction but just can't seem to figure something that ends with an A or U perm, so either my memory is off or my reconstruction is wrong (or maybe I screwed up while shuffling)... But anyway, he're what could have happened :

y // inspection
R' U2 F' y D R2 x2 // cross
R' U' R d' R U R' // 1st pair
R' U R U y' R U R' y // 2nd pair
R' U' R d2 L' U L // 3rd pair
U2 R U2 R2 F R F' // 4th pair
U2 R U R' U' R' F R F' // OLL
y2 F R U' R' U' R U R' F' R U R' U' R' F R F' // Yperm

I'm not sure how to compute TPS (anyone ?) but if I could cube rotations as "one turn" and double turns as "one turn", this would have been 2.51TPS, which seems nice to me, at my stage.

I'd love to know how you guys would have solved this more efficiently (using CFOP).


----------



## h2f (Aug 18, 2016)

teacher77 said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> I just managed a 25.47 s and I think the last alg was an Aa or Ua perm so this time it's not an LL skip and I don't have to be ashamed ;-)
> 
> ...



Nice solve. To reconstruct I use alg.cubing.net. It shows your solve in every metric scale. I dont add rotations, just turns. So here is 59 HTM and 59/25.47=2.31 TPS. Nice.

My suggestion is only you should make cross on bottom. It will pay off. And in the 3rd pair you could not do d2 because you can insert without it.
My solution is almost the same in HTM - 58 and 21.62 (first solve of the day).

x2 // inspection
F L F2 D' F2 D'
R' U2 R U R' U' R2
U F R U R' U' F' R'
U' L' U' L2 U2 L'
y'U' R U R' U' R U R'
U2 L F' L' U' L U F U' L'
UR2 U' R' U' R U R U R U' R U

alg.cubing.net


----------



## JohnnyReggae (Aug 18, 2016)

Selkie said:


> Looking great. Sorry to be ride but given the thread title, mind if I inquire how young you are?


 No worries ..... 46 turning 47 next Sunday  .... I was going to say that I still feel like a spring chicken, however my sore knees and back and the fact that bruises take forever to heal are tell-tale to my age creeping up on me


----------



## MarcelP (Aug 18, 2016)

Jason Green said:


> Yeah when I started I said if I kept the pace I'd be faster than Feliks in several months.



LOL, like out running Usain Bolt he?


----------



## JanW (Aug 18, 2016)

I looked through all my old sessions to add PBs to signature. Even charged up my old phone to find my old 3bld pb.

I remembered the pb single I got with my first complete LL skip wrong. Thought it was 17.8x, but turns out it was 18.8x. So the 19.08 I got a couple of days ago with my second ever LL skip wasn't that bad after all. I'm a bit surprised I haven't seen any faster times. I've done several sub-20 full step solves. Sub-18 with PLL skip should not be too far fetched.


----------



## SenorJuan (Aug 18, 2016)

@teacher77:
You might try cross-on-left if cross-on-bottom isn't to your taste.
Good use of the empty slot in the second slot solve.
Third slot - as said, d2 moves I would avoid, just do R' U' R U2 R' U R....that leaves the 4th slot at BL, solved with lots of L,U moves, but it does make it hard to force the edge orientation with the sledgehammer, which I assume was intentional?


----------



## mafergut (Aug 18, 2016)

Like 5 days in a row without barely touching a cube. I'm busy on vacation  and helping my son breed some pokemon which, I don't know if you have the experience, takes a lot of time 

Today I received the 2nd package for my unboxing video. Just one (and the most interesting) to go. I hope it arrives tomorrow so that I can record the video during the weekend.


----------



## muchacho (Aug 18, 2016)

Selkie said:


> Looking great. Sorry to be ride but given the thread title, mind if I inquire how young you are?
> 
> 
> JohnnyReggae said:
> ...


I still haven't said how young I am... just 4 decades here.


----------



## mafergut (Aug 18, 2016)

muchacho said:


> I still haven't said how young I am... just 4 decades here.


I just realized that's true. You are on the younger side of this forum 
Also, to @JohnnyReggae, you are quite fast to be my age!!!! Almost on par with Chris @Selkie, who is also 46... so I'm the slow 46er here? Even, I'm not becoming 47 until next year.


----------



## JohnnyReggae (Aug 18, 2016)

mafergut said:


> you are quite fast to be my age!!!! Almost on par with Chris @Selkie, who is also 46... so I'm the slow 46er here?


Thanks ... loads of practice  ... but as predicted yesterday, today I have not done as well. Perhaps I jinxed myself ... 70 timed solves with an average of 19.14, best single 14.81 ... quite a drop from yesterday ... But ... It's all good ... no practice is wasted


----------



## phreaker (Aug 19, 2016)

Got an X-Man Galaxy megaminx, and got my 1st few full solves. Still REALLY slow, but, going through the learning process.


----------



## JohnnyReggae (Aug 19, 2016)

phreaker said:


> Got an X-Man Galaxy megaminx, and got my 1st few full solves. Still REALLY slow, but, going through the learning process.


I would love to spend more time with Megaminx, still using a beginners method really to solve it and I end up spamming sune and anti-sune to do CO and then 1 alg and it's mirror to do EP. @Selkie is showing us how it's done lately  I need to find some more tutorials on S2L.


----------



## Selkie (Aug 20, 2016)

JohnnyReggae said:


> No worries ..... 46 turning 47 next Sunday  .... I was going to say that I still feel like a spring chicken, however my sore knees and back and the fact that bruises take forever to heal are tell-tale to my age creeping up on me



Very similar age, I turn 47 in November 



mafergut said:


> Like 5 days in a row without barely touching a cube. I'm busy on vacation  and helping my son breed some pokemon which, I don't know if you have the experience, takes a lot of time
> 
> Today I received the 2nd package for my unboxing video. Just one (and the most interesting) to go. I hope it arrives tomorrow so that I can record the video during the weekend.



Haha we have been on leave this last week and next week too and I know only too well the lure of Pokemon. Both ours play it and we even took them to a spacial open evening at the local zoo specially held for Pokemon hunting. How sad hehe



mafergut said:


> I just realized that's true. You are on the younger side of this forum
> Also, to @JohnnyReggae, you are quite fast to be my age!!!! Almost on par with Chris @Selkie, who is also 46... so I'm the slow 46er here? Even, I'm not becoming 47 until next year.



Sometimes I feel hands are now getting slower but still determined for global sub 15 



JohnnyReggae said:


> I would love to spend more time with Megaminx, still using a beginners method really to solve it and I end up spamming sune and anti-sune to do CO and then 1 alg and it's mirror to do EP. @Selkie is showing us how it's done lately  I need to find some more tutorials on S2L.



Megaminx is great fun but I am biased. Think I should be able to attain sub 2 overall. Dping at least an average of 12 each day


----------



## h2f (Aug 20, 2016)

Good alg in Ortega for PBL when bar is on the bottom front and back? I've made an ao100 and finally reached sub7. I've decided to practice a little bit 2x2 before next comp.


----------



## mafergut (Aug 20, 2016)

h2f said:


> Good alg in Ortega for PBL when bar is on the bottom front and back? I've made an ao100 and finally reached sub7. I've decided to practice a little bit 2x2 before next comp.


Not sure what you mean by that. You mean algs for both bottom bar on front and on back (and with what CP on top then)?


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## h2f (Aug 20, 2016)

mafergut said:


> Not sure what you mean by that. You mean algs for both bottom bar on front and on back (and with what CP on top then)?



I mean PBL with bar on bottom:
- with bar in bottom front;
- with bar in bottom back. 

 I do rotate cube to bar on top/front but it's inefficient. I remember someone posted it in this thread but I dont remeber who it was. Others PBLs are fine for me and I can deal with them.


----------



## muchacho (Aug 20, 2016)

I use this for both bars in front:
R2 U' B2 U2 R2 U' R2

And this for both bars in back:
R2 U' R2' U2' y R2 U' R2'

I just adjust U layer before doing them (if I can get the bottom bar in front or back).


----------



## h2f (Aug 20, 2016)

muchacho said:


> I use this for both bars in front:
> R2 U' B2 U2 R2 U' R2
> 
> And this for both bars in back:
> ...


I use them to. But i'm looking for alg when you got only bar on bottom and on top there's diagonal swap. I should mention it.


----------



## muchacho (Aug 20, 2016)

This for bar on back?
R U' F U2 F' U R'


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## h2f (Aug 20, 2016)

muchacho said:


> This for bar on back?
> R U' F U2 F' U R'




Good!


----------



## muchacho (Aug 20, 2016)

Maybe R U R U' B2 U R' U' R' for bar on front?


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## h2f (Aug 20, 2016)

muchacho said:


> Maybe R U R U' B2 U R' U' R' for bar on front?



This one is really nicer to me.


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## mafergut (Aug 20, 2016)

For bar on bottom (front) with diagonal swap on top I just do L D' L F2 L' D L'

By the way, new unboxing video, even longer and dizziness inducing than the last one.


----------



## Selkie (Aug 20, 2016)

@mafergut . Nice unboxing Miguel. Interesting that the X-Man Galaxy was not as good out of the box for you as me but I dont have the SS to compare to 


Also first ever sub 2:00 Megaminx solve. 1:58.70


----------



## MarcelP (Aug 20, 2016)

Selkie said:


> Very similar age, I turn 47 in November


I will be 47 in December


----------



## Jason Green (Aug 20, 2016)

MarcelP said:


> I will be 47 in December


I will be 47 in September... 2021.


----------



## MarcelP (Aug 20, 2016)

Jason Green said:


> I will be 47 in September... 2021.


I feel so old... LOL


----------



## muchacho (Aug 20, 2016)

I said I was not going to buy more cubes, but I didn't said anything about spheres... I would buy one of those, but seems a bit pricey for the "hours" I would spend playing with it.


----------



## mark49152 (Aug 20, 2016)

muchacho said:


> This for bar on back?
> R U' F U2 F' U R'


R' U R' F2 R F' R.

No cube with me to test I got that right!

Also R2 U' R2 U R2 U' R2 U R2.


----------



## h2f (Aug 20, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> R' U R' F2 R F' R.



This one is for bar top and diagonal bottom. For this I use: R' F R' F2 R U' R .


----------



## Chree (Aug 20, 2016)

muchacho said:


> This for bar on back?
> R U' F U2 F' U R'


This does really interesting stuff on 3x3.


----------



## mafergut (Aug 20, 2016)

I've done some solves with the 2x2 and the 4x4s and I really like the Kungfu Yuehun 2x2. I will try to do an Ao100 and compare with the Weipo but it is really nice, the more so if you take into account the price.

The 4x4s give me mixed feelings. The Kungfu Cangfeng is probably a bit too loose right now but properly set up and broken in it could be nice... if it was just 60mm instead of 62mm. I don't see me going back to bigger cubes. Size matters a lot to me, as bigger cubes mean clumsier turning. The Yuxin Blue looks like will need some work to break it in. Right now it's a bit sluggish and I have a problem with it that I'm not sure I've heard to anybody else. Just in one of the sides, if I try to do a double layer flick (like a Uw) only the inner layer moves and the outer one stays almost in place or moves just a tiny bit, causing a big misalignment of both layers. It's so strange...

I have not done any timed solves with the Galaxy yet but I'm really disappointed with the reverse corner cutting. Maybe the hype was so high that I was really expecting something spectacular and, for me, it's not any better (if not worse) than the SS Aurora.

EDIT: I just did a couple solves with the Galaxy and not only the times were terrible, I had a corner twist, something that had never happened to me with any other Megaminx.


----------



## h2f (Aug 21, 2016)

mafergut said:


> EDIT: I just did a couple solves with the Galaxy and not only the times were terrible, I had a corner twist, something that had never happened to me with any other Megaminx.



I feel sorry to hear it because I was very pleased with Galaxy and said it's good puzzle. Tiwsts happen to me as well but it's up of my turning style because they happen on other puzzles like new Thunderclap.


----------



## mafergut (Aug 21, 2016)

h2f said:


> I feel sorry to hear it because I was very pleased with Galaxy and said it's good puzzle. Tiwsts happen to me as well but it's up of my turning style because they happen on other puzzles like new Thunderclap.


Don't worry about that. I'm sure the puzzle is great but I just can't make it work for me out of the box. Maybe I need to loosen it up a bit or just adapt my turning. Also being used to SS sticker shades is making my lookahead suffer. But probably, had I tried it before I wouldn't have bought it.

Sent from my Nexus 4 with Tapatalk


----------



## h2f (Aug 21, 2016)

I remeber I've loosed mine a little bit.


----------



## muchacho (Aug 21, 2016)

I was again trying to get a sub-21 Mo100 and this time I got a DNF when I was close to get it, I make this exact mistake at least every 400 solves or so (setup M2 U2 M2 U' M2 U2 M2 U'), it's so embarrasing 

Anyway, PB improved from 21.389 (from last week) to 21.221.


----------



## h2f (Aug 21, 2016)

muchacho said:


> (setup M2 U2 M2 U' M2 U2 M2 U'),.



Just Hperm - one of the most popular PLLs due to it's so easy.


----------



## muchacho (Aug 21, 2016)

It happens when I'm going to insert L/R edges and do it an M2 away from correct, maybe the rest of my solve is done at Alex Lau speed and that's why I can't see the mistake, maybe


----------



## MarcelP (Aug 21, 2016)

After almost no practice at all the last few weeks I squeezed in an Ao50. I had a very nice result with this full step 12.53:

alg.cubing
60 moves in 12.53 = 4.7 tps. Looking at the number of moves on my PLL I wish this was a PLL skip. Might have been a sub 10 
Cube: Meiying


Spoiler: The average



Gegenereerd door csTimer op 2016-8-21
solves/totaal: 50/50

enkele
Beste: 12.53
Slechtste: 23.70

mean van 3
Actuele: 20.17 (σ = 3.08)
Beste: 15.98 (σ = 3.18)

avg of 5
Actuele: 20.25 (σ = 2.34)
Beste: 16.78 (σ = 1.53)

avg of 12
Actuele: 19.27 (σ = 1.88)
Beste: 18.27 (σ = 1.46)

avg of 50
Actuele: 18.90 (σ = 1.67)
Beste: 18.90 (σ = 1.67)

Gemiddelde: 18.90 (s = 1.67)
Mean: 18.88


----------



## h2f (Aug 21, 2016)

@MarcelP very nice times!


----------



## newtonbase (Aug 21, 2016)

￼My niece and my daughter thought it would be hilarious to scramble every puzzle they could get their hands on.


----------



## Jason Green (Aug 21, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> ￼My niece and my daughter thought it would be hilarious to scramble every puzzle they could get their hands on. View attachment 6757


Too many things I couldn't solve there.  If it happened to me is mainly just have a bunch of 3x3s.


----------



## newtonbase (Aug 21, 2016)

Jason Green said:


> Too many things I couldn't solve there.  If it happened to me is mainly just have a bunch of 3x3s.


I can't solve them all either. I've never dared scramble the curvy copter or the Virust 2x2 ghost cube and there's a few like the Devil's Eyes that I'll need to look up again. They missed most of my 3x3s as they are in another room for secret 3BLD training.


----------



## newtonbase (Aug 21, 2016)

Update: I told them that they won't be getting any ice lollies or sweets until they are all solved. My niece is working on the 3x3s and my daughter is trying to invent a method for skewb. I was lying but I like to keep them on their toes.


----------



## SenorJuan (Aug 21, 2016)

Mark, is that a mini Ghost cube on top of the Sudokubes pile, or just a 1x1x1 dummy?
Some cool things there, including the sadly never-used curvy copter.


----------



## newtonbase (Aug 21, 2016)

SenorJuan said:


> Iss that a mini Ghost cube on top of the Sudokubes pile, or just a 1x1x1 dummy?
> Some cool things there, including the sadly never-used curvy copter.


It's a dummy. It was a free gift with the 2x2. It shows the exact same pattern so should be useful when I attempt the solve.


----------



## SenorJuan (Aug 21, 2016)

...when _my daughter_ attempts the solve.
Cool dummy, anyway, and explains why it's escaped scrambling.

On the Spotty Youth Thread, they're discussing computer programming, of all things. Haven't they got Pikachu's to capture, or something? What next, quantum chromodynamics??


----------



## mark49152 (Aug 21, 2016)

@newtonbase, no Sheffield?


----------



## Shaky Hands (Aug 21, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> @newtonbase, no Sheffield?



 will miss you dude


----------



## newtonbase (Aug 21, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> @newtonbase, no Sheffield?





mark49152 said:


>



I'm afraid not. It was never definite and I'd rather save my brownie points for the UKs. Guildford is booked.


----------



## Jason Green (Aug 22, 2016)

I found what seems to be a good practice method for me to get ready for a comp (we'll see when I go). Basically to help psych myself up and feel the nerves I would tell myself each new set of 5 is my comp round. My biggest goal is just a sub 20 single and next would be PB average. Each new 5 solves I would feel nervous and often not do as well again on that first solve. The trick for me was not looking at "rolling averages", it was 1-5, next 6-10, then 11-15, so on. Once I got a sub 20 I felt more relaxed until the next set of 5.  I managed to get a sub 20 in every set, and all but one beat my official average.

@Chree, was it you that's going to be at the Portland Comp next weekend? Anyone else? Kind of seems like two people said they are and I've forgotten who.


----------



## Shaky Hands (Aug 22, 2016)

mafergut said:


> By the way, new unboxing video, even longer and dizziness inducing than the last one.



Enjoyed this, thanks. Have you played with the Yuxin 4x4 much since then? Any further thoughts?


----------



## mafergut (Aug 22, 2016)

Shaky Hands said:


> Enjoyed this, thanks. Have you played with the Yuxin 4x4 much since then? Any further thoughts?


I had not much time yet. I just did like 5-6 solves with the Cangfeng and another 5-6 with the Yuxin. In both cases got worse times that I usually get with the CB G4 but it's too few solves and too early to draw any conclusions. What I can say, but @earth2dan already warned me about that, is that the Yuxin blue seems to need some breaking in and setting up, unlike the G4 which with just breaking in is very nice. The blue will need lubing and tension adjustment, right now it's slow, requires some effort to turn and keeps catching a bit on middle layers (but not much). I don't really think it will end up replacing the G4 as my main but, ... you never know. Anyway, unless you want it just because, I wouldn't recommend to buy it as a replacement of a G4. If it ends up being better it will likely be only marginally.


----------



## Shaky Hands (Aug 22, 2016)

@mafergut, thanks. I do have a Yuxin 4x4 on order, but it's on the way from China so may be some time. My G4 seems to be getting worse over time.


----------



## MarcelP (Aug 22, 2016)

Shaky Hands said:


> My G4 seems to be getting worse over time.



I do not use it a lot, but mine seems to become nicer everytime I use it. And I have never cleaned it or anything. It is still my main although my YJ GuanSu's are pretty sweet too.


----------



## mafergut (Aug 22, 2016)

Shaky Hands said:


> @mafergut, thanks. I do have a Yuxin 4x4 on order, but it's on the way from China so may be some time. My G4 seems to be getting worse over time.


Worse in what sense? Mine does not have a whole lot of solves but I'm sure several hundreds already and I have not lubed it or anything. Catching is gone almost 100% and it's super-stable, maybe a tiny bit slow but that's because it's not lubed and I'm sure I could fix it with a couple drops of Maru or Cubicle Silk (I'm thinking about buying a bottle of that). I have not done it because I'm afraid of spoiling it somehow and also because I prefer it a bit too slow than a bit too fast to avoid pops due to my inaccurate turning.


----------



## Shaky Hands (Aug 22, 2016)

I'm finding the inner layers catch more than they used too. It may just be that my TPS has improved on 3x3 and I'm not adjusting properly to the corner-cutting angles of the bigger cube.


----------



## mafergut (Aug 22, 2016)

Shaky Hands said:


> I'm finding the inner layers catch more than they used too. It may just be that my TPS has improved on 3x3 and I'm not adjusting properly to the corner-cutting angles of the bigger cube.


What I find is that I lock up more as I'm becoming faster at 4x4 if I turn too fast and start being inaccurate. I even had a big pop some days ago because I just pushed too much with a layer misalignment and I popped 2 corners, 2 edges and 3 internal edges (those little pieces in between centers and inner edges). But catching, at least that same catching the cube had out of the box where the layers, even being perfectly aligned would not move in one direction unless forced to, those have almost completely gone, so what you say is strange.


----------



## Chree (Aug 22, 2016)

Jason Green said:


> @Chree, was it you that's going to be at the Portland Comp next weekend? Anyone else? Kind of seems like two people said they are and I've forgotten who.



I'm an Organizer for that competition, and it'll also be my first time functioning as a candidate delegate 

@CLL Smooth will also probably be there. I think there are a few other adults headed, but the majority of them will likely be younger than us... but what else is new?


----------



## Shaky Hands (Aug 22, 2016)

mafergut said:


> What I find is that I lock up more as I'm becoming faster at 4x4 if I turn too fast and start being inaccurate. I even had a big pop some days ago because I just pushed too much with a layer misalignment and I popped 2 corners, 2 edges and 3 internal edges (those little pieces in between centers and inner edges). But catching, at least that same catching the cube had out of the box where the layers, even being perfectly aligned would not move in one direction unless forced to, those have almost completely gone, so what you say is strange.



Yuxin 4x4 just arrived. Popped an internal piece on the first solve. Will need re-tensioning!


----------



## mafergut (Aug 22, 2016)

Shaky Hands said:


> Yuxin 4x4 just arrived. Popped an internal piece on the first solve. Will need re-tensioning!


Sorry that I liked your post. I don't want to mean that I like that you popped a piece. I just found it funny that you really popped it on 1st solve because I'm almost popping it all the time as well. I have done the scrambles for round 40a of the Race to sub X at 4x4 and I have had at least 3 solves where I had the U layer disengage from the rest of the cube because I did a U turn with a slight misalignment and all the U layer wanted to just pop off but I was lucky that I stopped before any pieces went away and, by undoing the turn and pressing down I managed to reassemble the cube. This is the exact same thing that happens to me at times with their 6x6. One of them took almost 30 seconds to fix, the others just 10-15. As a result the average was like 1:41.xx and I'm starting to really hate the puzzle. It is already very slow but it looks like it needs to be even tighter so... round 40b will definitely be done on my G4.


----------



## Shaky Hands (Aug 22, 2016)

No need to be sorry. I was laughing about it myself! 

I also had a partial pop also that like you I was able to correct. Fixing the internal pop I had on the Yuxin 4x4 is a lot easier than it is on the Moyu 4x4 that I used to use. I think fixing Moyu 6x6 pops is easier than fixing Moyu 4x4 pops...!

I got a 2nd G4 in the same order so I could do some comparisons and see if I can suss out if there's anything technical wrong with my G4. Only $9 so worth it for a check anyway.


----------



## earth2dan (Aug 22, 2016)

I've just been lurking lately, but I need to chime on on the Yuxin 4x4 

At first I didn't have much love for this puzzle either. It was slow, a little catchy, and had to be tightened a lot to fix the popping issue. However after taking it apart, lubing it, and adjusting the tensions; This puzzle has dethroned my G4 and my AoSu. I can say with relative confidence, this is my main 4x4. It's not as fast as the G4, but it's so smooth and controllable. The G4 is great if you take the time to break it in, the Yuxin is great if you take the time to break it in AND set it up.

Edit: This puzzle has one other quality that I highly value. It's quiet. Compared to the hard plastic clickyness of the G4 the Yuxin is soft, smooth, and quiet. This is a big deal for me, and when I have two puzzles that are comparable in performance, it is often the deciding factor.


----------



## mafergut (Aug 22, 2016)

Round 40b done with the CB G4, no pops at all but more of my normal times... worse than what I'd want of course.

@earth2dan: Glad to hear from you after some days  I also have to take a couple days off the forum now and then. Family exists!  Thank you for the added feedback on the Yuxin blue. I will try to persevere in breaking it in... or should I just disassemble it and lube it first? It really needs tightening but I'm afraid it will get even slower. Also I have never lubed a 4x4 (or any other big cube for that matter). Any advice? Should I lube the core similarly to a 3x3? Should I use silicone oil or just Maru? What weight? Sorry, too many questions


----------



## earth2dan (Aug 22, 2016)

@mafergut taking a 4x4 apart and lubing it is a real pain the first time you do it. Make sure you set aside an afternoon for it. I do it like Chris Olsen does in this video. Though, I'm not quite as heavy on the lube as he is here.


Spoiler: Video











I used a mixture of cubicle weight 5 and 3. Equivalent to traxxas 50k/30k. Weight 5 for the core (use it like "glue" to make assembly easier). Then Weight 3 on the pieces. Now I just occasionally put a few drops of Maru in there, it's like steroids for big cubes


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## mafergut (Aug 22, 2016)

@earth2dan: Thanks a lot for the detailed instructions and video. I will have to find a free afternoon to do that... and I also need another to try and fix the Galaxy or I will really feel like a spender


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## Shaky Hands (Aug 22, 2016)

mafergut said:


> Also I have never lubed a 4x4 (or any other big cube for that matter). Any advice? Should I lube the core similarly to a 3x3? Should I use silicone oil or just Maru? What weight? Sorry, too many questions



I understand Rob Yau recommends 10wt shock oil for all big cubes. That's what @mark49152 and I have been using and I think it works well.

This is a UK vendor, but I suspect there are several:
http://www.modelsport.co.uk/hpi-pro-silicone-shock-oil-10wt-60cc-/rc-car-products/364739


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## CLL Smooth (Aug 22, 2016)

Chree said:


> I'm an Organizer for that competition, and it'll also be my first time functioning as a candidate delegate
> 
> @CLL Smooth will also probably be there. I think there are a few other adults headed, but the majority of them will likely be younger than us... but what else is new?


Turns out I have a pretty busy weekend. Training someone new at work, and moving into a new apartment. I will be there though. I'll probably show up after lunch on Saturday. The only thing I have practiced for is mega so that's all I need to make sure and make it to on Sunday.


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## h2f (Aug 22, 2016)

I was lubing my Aosu like Chris Olson and it made my cube bad till 100 solves. After that it became amazing.


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## Logiqx (Aug 22, 2016)

I've updated the over-40's results and uploaded them to GitHub.


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## Chree (Aug 22, 2016)

Logiqx said:


> I've updated the over-40's results and uploaded them to GitHub.



Only 8 more years to go before I'm included there


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## Jason Green (Aug 22, 2016)

Logiqx said:


> I've updated the over-40's results and uploaded them to GitHub.


Thanks, I never went back to try and make the headings work on wordpress.


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## muchacho (Aug 22, 2016)

Gigaminx scared me, but maybe I'll buy a 4x4 Kilominx someday.

http://zcube.hk/SS-444-Kilominx

How much faster solving that would be compared to a Gigaminx? almost half the time?


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## mafergut (Aug 22, 2016)

muchacho said:


> Gigaminx scared me, but maybe I'll buy a 4x4 Kilominx someday.
> 
> http://zcube.hk/SS-444-Kilominx
> 
> How much faster solving that would be compared to a Gigaminx? almost half the time?



Wow! I hadn't seen that yet. I knew that SS was preparing a Master Kilominx and saw the pictures but had no idea about the date it would be available. I'd say, comparing with 4x4 and 5x5 that half the time than a Gigaminx. But it took me like 1h the only time I solved mine. So half an hour is a good estimate for me. C'mon I told my wife I wouldn't order any more cubes until Christmas... but, on the other side, this is not a "cube"


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## Jason Green (Aug 23, 2016)

I like my new car sticker. 
https://www.instagram.com/p/BJbTVxiD2Y3/


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## CLL Smooth (Aug 23, 2016)

Jason Green said:


> I like my new car sticker.
> https://www.instagram.com/p/BJbTVxiD2Y3/


Dude, that's fresh!


----------



## Lid (Aug 23, 2016)

Selkie said:


> Wow, something to aim for myself. Thats a lot of PLLs. Think I can call myself sub 2:25 now but not letting up on concentration on megaminx. Ever film any of your solves?


I only have a like 8-10 year old non HD camera, so basicly no :|
Pure EP and CP is alone 26 algs.



Selkie said:


> Very similar age, I turn 47 in November


I almost feeling young again  (45 in January)



muchacho said:


> Gigaminx scared me, but maybe I'll buy a 4x4 Kilominx someday.
> http://zcube.hk/SS-444-Kilominx
> How much faster solving that would be compared to a Gigaminx? almost half the time?


Gonna order one myself this week, I'll get back once I have done some solves ...

PBs!? Started to repeat my 2x2 CLLs 2-3 days ago and today I got a 4.86 a12 with my new SL WeiPo, which have replaced my old Dayan as main. Lets see if I can get a sub4 a12 & sub5 a100 ...
Times: 4.78, 4.91, 4.80, (4.27), 4.47, 5.78, 4.54, 4.73, 5.77, 4.30, 4.51, (5.96) : 10 CLL + 2 Ortega, I think.

edit:
I did put together a small Kilominx alg page. Managed to get decent auto generated images with the GD Perl module.


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## newtonbase (Aug 23, 2016)

muchacho said:


> Gigaminx scared me, but maybe I'll buy a 4x4 Kilominx someday.
> 
> http://zcube.hk/SS-444-Kilominx
> 
> How much faster solving that would be compared to a Gigaminx? almost half the time?



That's very tempting. I was avoiding non WCA and big cubes but the kilominx ruined that plan. 



Jason Green said:


> I like my new car sticker.
> https://www.instagram.com/p/BJbTVxiD2Y3/



Brilliant.


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## Chree (Aug 24, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> That's very tempting. I was avoiding non WCA and big cubes but the kilominx ruined that plan.



Well, I mean... it will have ruined that plan, until or unless kilominx DOES become a WCA event


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## h2f (Aug 24, 2016)

Funny thing - I've switched 3style edges few months ago. BD target I did with a setup M2. I've made tons of solves, dedicated practice etc. And after all yesterday I've discovered two easy comms for that target and targets from U layer or any other. One is for example [D R2 D', M'] and the second [F R' F', M']. Simple 8movers, the second with easy rotation. The second solves my problem with x' rotation and doing target on D layer - it was awkward to me and I've made a lot of mistakes cause I used to do x' rotation only for BU setups as a target (and M2 after it).

Just saying... One can make tons of solves and after that one discovers simple solutions...


----------



## mark49152 (Aug 24, 2016)

In case anyone on this thread hasn't seen them yet, I highly recommend the F2L and OLL videos from Caleb Miller. These videos explain how the solutions actually work and are one of the best resources I have yet found. Even though I know all these cases well, I have learned new tricks and gained ideas and insights. Excellent stuff.

https://www.speedsolving.com/forum/...ive-case-by-case-breakdown-all-42-cases.62139



h2f said:


> Just saying... One can make tons of solves and after that one discovers simple solutions...


Yeah that's one of the cool things about cubing. There's always more to learn. I used algs to solve bigBLD U face targets for months until I realised that M2 tricks for M slice also worked with U2 on U layer .


----------



## h2f (Aug 24, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> In case anyone on this thread hasn't seen them yet, I highly recommend the F2L and OLL videos from Caleb Miller. These videos explain how the solutions actually work and are one of the best resources I have yet found. Even though I know all these cases well, I have learned new tricks and gained ideas and insights. Excellent stuff.



Yeah, I've seen it and your opinion in this thread. I've subscirbed and gonna see whole series. 

M2 is great on big cubes.


----------



## Shaky Hands (Aug 24, 2016)

earth2dan said:


> The G4 is great if you take the time to break it in, the Yuxin is great if you take the time to break it in AND set it up.



Used the Yuxin 4x4 in the Weekly Comp and got my best Ao5 in WC history by about 2 seconds. Still 5 seconds off my all-time best 4x4 Ao5 but that Ao5 was about 10 seconds off my current Ao100 so it shows promise for a cube not yet broken in. Had another pop with it earlier today so have tightened it slightly since.

Also picked up the Yuxin 6x6 and broke my PB single in my first ever timed solve on it and also got PB average by 17 seconds. I like this cube a lot. Seems to be much more stable than the Moyu 6x6 I have (described by a cuber at the last comp as "loose and stiff at the same time") and the Shengshou 6x6 I have which I consider to be "death-by-lockup."



mark49152 said:


> In case anyone on this thread hasn't seen them yet, I highly recommend the F2L and OLL videos from Caleb Miller. These videos explain how the solutions actually work and are one of the best resources I have yet found. Even though I know all these cases well, I have learned new tricks and gained ideas and insights. Excellent stuff.
> 
> https://www.speedsolving.com/forum/...ive-case-by-case-breakdown-all-42-cases.62139



Only just starting on this, looks very good. Too late for me to try to integrate much into the upcoming Comp but it's really well laid out and I'll look forward to watching more of these. Thanks for the recommendation.


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## Jason Green (Aug 24, 2016)

Definitely going to try those f2l vids, thanks Mark!


----------



## PlainCuber (Aug 24, 2016)

stoic said:


> Welcome Marcel!
> Good introduction. Nice to have some more of us "oldies" on here (I'm 39).
> Hope you enjoy it here.



I realize that this is a very old thread, but here goes. *I'm 60! AAAAGGHH!* I fell in love with speedcubing December of 2014 - almost 2 years ago. I'm still trying to average under a minute, and my PB is 33.50. Not bad for an old-timer.


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## Shaky Hands (Aug 24, 2016)

@PlainCuber - welcome! Plenty to learn here! Good luck with your progress.


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## Jason Green (Aug 24, 2016)

Awesome to have you @PlainCuber! Even though this thread is old it's very very active (like hard to keep up!). Glad to have an adult join us (we need some supervision maybe haha). [emoji14]


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## mark49152 (Aug 24, 2016)

Welcome @PlainCuber !


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## PlainCuber (Aug 24, 2016)

Shaky Hands said:


> @PlainCuber - welcome! Plenty to learn here! Good luck with your progress.


Thanks!



Jason Green said:


> Awesome to have you @PlainCuber! Even though this thread is old it's very very active (like hard to keep up!). Glad to have an adult join us (we need some supervision maybe haha). [emoji14]



Yikes! You don't want me to supervise. LOL Thanks, though.

Speaking of old, do older folks ever go to a competition, or is that too _creepy_? I'd _love_ to go to one, and there's one just up the road from me Sept 9th or 10th.


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## Jason Green (Aug 24, 2016)

PlainCuber said:


> Speaking of old, do older folks ever go to a competition, or is that too _creepy_? I'd _love_ to go to one, and there's one just up the road from me Sept 9th or 10th.


I have one this weekend! They are great. If you read through the history some you'll see most of us love them, a few have not got to be at one yet. 

I was worried about fitting in but now I just go find a spot at a practice table and the kids usually act like you're one of them. Nothing but good experiences in my 3 comps so far.


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## mark49152 (Aug 24, 2016)

PlainCuber said:


> Speaking of old, do older folks ever go to a competition, or is that too _creepy_? I'd _love_ to go to one, and there's one just up the road from me Sept 9th or 10th.


Yes most of us active posters compete. I have been to 9 comps. It's not creepy although I'm always happier when there are fellow oldies there too. Go for it.


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## PlainCuber (Aug 24, 2016)

Jason Green said:


> I have one this weekend! They are great. If you read through the history some you'll see most of us love them, a few have not got to be at one yet.
> 
> I was worried about fitting in but now I just go find a spot at a practice table and the kids usually act like you're one of them. Nothing but good experiences in my 3 comps so far.



All right! Thanks for that feedback.


----------



## PlainCuber (Aug 24, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> Yes most of us active posters compete. I have been to 9 comps. It's not creepy although I'm always happier when there are fellow oldies there too. Go for it.



Cool! Thanks! I probably will.


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## Shaky Hands (Aug 24, 2016)

PlainCuber said:


> Speaking of old, do older folks ever go to a competition, or is that too _creepy_? I'd _love_ to go to one, and there's one just up the road from me Sept 9th or 10th.



Definitely worth going. Even more so if it's just down the road from you.

You'll see a lot of us in this thread have WCA: "_idnumber"_ under our username in the forum, which links to the profile of the various competitions we've been to.

Good luck, but most of all enjoy the experience!


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## PlainCuber (Aug 24, 2016)

Shaky Hands said:


> Definitely worth going. Even more so if it's just down the road from you.
> You'll see a lot of us in this thread have WCA: "_idnumber"_ under our username in the forum, which links to the profile of the various competitions we've been to.
> Good luck, but most of all enjoy the experience!



Hey, thanks!


----------



## stoic (Aug 24, 2016)

Welcome @PlainCuber 
Seems strange seeing a post I made over four years ago quoted...but cool!
They're a good bunch in here, and if you do get the opportunity to go to a comp I'm sure you'll enjoy it.


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## PlainCuber (Aug 24, 2016)

stoic said:


> Welcome @PlainCuber
> Seems strange seeing a post I made over four years ago quoted...but cool!
> They're a good bunch in here, and if you do get the opportunity to go to a comp I'm sure you'll enjoy it.



Sounds good. I probably will go. I've got the $ and puzzles for it ready to go. Good to see you're still on this forum.


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## mafergut (Aug 24, 2016)

I'm one of the few oldies in this forum that has not had the chance to go to a comp yet. But if I had the opportunity I wouldn't hesitate.


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## newtonbase (Aug 24, 2016)

Welcome @PlainCuber 
You should get to a competition if you can. If you have a cube in your hand you are one of the gang. I've seen an 86 year old at one.


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## PlainCuber (Aug 24, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> Welcome @PlainCuber
> You should get to a competition if you can. If you have a cube in your hand you are one of the gang. I've seen an 86 year old at one.



Wow! I don't feel so old now. lol


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## h2f (Aug 24, 2016)

@PlainCuber, Hi man. Good to see you.


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## JanW (Aug 24, 2016)

mafergut said:


> I'm one of the few oldies in this forum that has not had the chance to go to a comp yet. But if I had the opportunity I wouldn't hesitate.


I didn't realize you haven't competed. You are way too fast not to have an official time!

I haven't competed myself either. There's a comp within reasonable distance next month, but I don't think I'll have time to go. No time to practice right now either. But on the other hand, I still have a few years before I qualify for the most important ranking, the "How fast are the over 40's in competitions?"-thread, so no real hurry to get any official results.


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## newtonbase (Aug 24, 2016)

UK Championships 4th to 6th November. FMC and MBLD on the Friday night per Facebook. 
Time to be nice to the wife.


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## Berd (Aug 24, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> UK Championships 4th to 6th November. FMC and MBLD on the Friday night per Facebook.
> Time to be nice to the wife.


I just saw this to. Not sure how I feel about it. Open to new ideas tho!


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## newtonbase (Aug 24, 2016)

Berd said:


> I just saw this to. Not sure how I feel about it. Open to new ideas tho!


But you don't even have a wife?


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## Berd (Aug 24, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> But you don't even have a wife?


I have a mother! And a soon to be wife fingers crossed...


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## mafergut (Aug 24, 2016)

@JanW. thanks a lot. Not as fast as I would like to but I try to do my best 
It's just a matter of time that I can find a comp near my place or I decide to go to one in Madrid or something like that.


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## newtonbase (Aug 24, 2016)

The Friday night thing is a pain. Pretty sure I'll have to wait to break my MBLD duck.


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## Shaky Hands (Aug 24, 2016)

I'd be doubtful for Friday night too (on-call with work) although would like to give FMC another shot.

Good to see some dates confirmed at any rate.


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## mark49152 (Aug 25, 2016)

I will just have to travel earlier on Friday. I'm delighted we are getting a UK Champs this year. For a while it was in doubt as no venue.


----------



## shadowslice e (Aug 25, 2016)

Berd said:


> I have a mother! And a soon to be wife fingers crossed...


If you're talking about molly you may still have a few more years...

Actually, I challenge you to actually manage to convince her to come to a comp in the next year.


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## MarcelP (Aug 25, 2016)

Berd said:


> I have a mother!



LOL, Good one.


----------



## newtonbase (Aug 26, 2016)

Got the new Yuxin 4x4 today. It felt pretty good until I compared it directly to my G4 but with a bit of lube and a quarter turn of the screws it might be slightly awesome. 
My replacement Cavs came too. Hopefully this one won't self destruct.


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## Shaky Hands (Aug 26, 2016)

Yep, I've only given it a quarter-turn so far. It did help.


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## Jason Green (Aug 26, 2016)

Tomorrow I fly up to Portland for the comp. I was thinking about video ideas, and tempted to interview people at the airport about cubing. Also the comp is at a mall so I suppose I could talk to passersby there. What do you think? I'm not naturally outgoing so I may chicken out.


----------



## Jason Green (Aug 26, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> In case anyone on this thread hasn't seen them yet, I highly recommend the F2L and OLL videos from Caleb Miller. These videos explain how the solutions actually work and are one of the best resources I have yet found. Even though I know all these cases well, I have learned new tricks and gained ideas and insights. Excellent stuff.
> 
> https://www.speedsolving.com/forum/...ive-case-by-case-breakdown-all-42-cases.62139



I watched some of these and I don't know if I'm too lazy or what but it's hard for me to take in. Partly it's hard because he doesn't give algs, he just shows the moves. That's how I first learned Petrus many years ago before I speed cubed, and it's a lot harder for me. I do like the idea of understanding what algs do, but to me that comes better with time rather than learning it upfront. I learned most of my f2l from just the 3 basic cases, and figuring it out from there. I could use lots of improvement on rotations during f2l, so maybe I need something like this, but I don't know how to attack it. I've just picked up cases here and there to help improve the way I do things. 

So after my long gripe session, any advice?  Should I try just one or two of the cases and see if I can drill them like when I learned PLL/OLL? Some of the finger tricks and multiple push moves will also be an issue for me to get good at I think.


----------



## h2f (Aug 26, 2016)

Jason Green said:


> I watched some of these and I don't know if I'm too lazy or what but it's hard for me to take in. Partly it's hard because he doesn't give algs, he just shows the moves. That's how I first learned Petrus many years ago before I speed cubed, and it's a lot harder for me. I do like the idea of understanding what algs do, but to me that comes better with time rather than learning it upfront. I learned most of my f2l from just the 3 basic cases, and figuring it out from there. I could use lots of improvement on rotations during f2l, so maybe I need something like this, but I don't know how to attack it. I've just picked up cases here and there to help improve the way I do things.
> 
> So after my long gripe session, any advice?  Should I try just one or two of the cases and see if I can drill them like when I learned PLL/OLL? Some of the finger tricks and multiple push moves will also be an issue for me to get good at I think.



I watched through the cases which i feel i can get better - it was the cases 5 - 8. And I played around with cube. He exlpains how to solve so you can figure it out. I knew the cases he shows but with his explanations I could understand them better. After all you can write down the alg just watching it. I'm gonna to look whole series to see if there are better solutions.

@mark49152. How's your 3bld practice? I did 182 solves in 9 days with 41% accuracy and 41 solves below official PB.


----------



## mark49152 (Aug 26, 2016)

Jason Green said:


> Also the comp is at a mall so I suppose I could talk to passersby there. What do you think?


I think getting people's reactions at the mall would be great. I'd like to watch that.



Jason Green said:


> So after my long gripe session, any advice?


If it's not for you, ignore it . Personally I found it interesting as a curiosity rather than a learning aid. I already know full OLL by muscle memory but I did not learn the algs by tracking pairs, so it was cool to watch and think "oh yeah, I didn't realise the alg did that with those pairs." But it's not going to help me remember something I have already known for 4 years.



h2f said:


> @mark49152. How's your 3bld practice? I did 182 solves in 9 days with 41% accuracy and 41 solves below official PB.


I've had a busy few weeks and only done a small fraction of the practice I planned to do before this weekend's comp. My averages are 10 sec worse than before last comp, in part due to switching to corner comms, but my accuracy has gone back up to 50%+ so it's starting to stick. And I have done almost zero 4BLD. So I don't really have any targets. I would need a lucky scramble to get any PB. I'll be pleased if I can use comms instead of reverting to OP under comp pressure


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## h2f (Aug 26, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> I've had a busy few weeks and only done a small fraction of the practice I planned to do before this weekend's comp. My averages are 10 sec worse than before last comp, in part due to switching to corner comms, but my accuracy has gone back up to 50%+ so it's starting to stick. And I have done almost zero 4BLD. So I don't really have any targets. I would need a lucky scramble to get any PB. I'll be pleased if I can use comms instead of reverting to OP under comp pressure



When are your next competions? During sessions I had few nice scrambles with sub1 solves but I made small mistakes (flips, seutps etc) and noone of them finished luckily solved.

And after posting it got 54.4 on the easy scramble in my orientation: U2 L D2 R' U2 B2 U2 L' D2 L' B2 F' U R2 F2 D2 F2 D' U R' Uw


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## mark49152 (Aug 26, 2016)

h2f said:


> When are your next competions?


Tomorrow, then Oct 1, then Nov 4.


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## h2f (Aug 26, 2016)

Good luck than!


----------



## mark49152 (Aug 26, 2016)

Thanks!


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## mark49152 (Aug 26, 2016)

@h2f, continuing the discussion from the accomplishment thread, I suspect the difficulty I will face with edge comms is the same as corner comms and advanced M2. When under time pressure I revert to the simplest. Doing untimed solves I use lots of setups and shortcuts with M2. In comp, I tend to do everything vanilla style one piece at a time. That seems to be my biggest challenge with BLD execution.


----------



## h2f (Aug 26, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> @h2f, continuing the discussion from the accomplishment thread, I suspect the difficulty I will face with edge comms is the same as corner comms and advanced M2. When under time pressure I revert to the simplest. Doing untimed solves I use lots of setups and shortcuts with M2. In comp, I tend to do everything vanilla style one piece at a time. That seems to be my biggest challenge with BLD execution.



Oh yeah, I know what you mean. I keep in mind what Ollie wrote: Fortune favours the brave. Since than I use only comms and I solve only few targets with M2 because I havent found good algs for them. But these are only few cases. I think the most important factor during comp is to stay with method you are comfortable with. I think you're doing good. When you used to comms you naturally solve with comms not with M2. It's a matter of time and practice because your mind need to change the way of thinking about your targets.


----------



## mark49152 (Aug 26, 2016)

@h2f, yes I have followed Ollie's advice. At home it's fine. In comp I will find out tomorrow


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## h2f (Aug 26, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> @h2f, yes I have followed Ollie's advice. At home it's fine. In comp I will find out tomorrow



Good luck. I had 1/3 and 0/3 after it during comp. My next comp is next saturday and I hope for a better result.

Edit: today while doing job stuff (luckily I can work at home now) 8/10.


----------



## Jason Green (Aug 26, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> Tomorrow, then Oct 1, then Nov 4.


Wow, how much travel is involved going to those? I'm jealous!


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## mark49152 (Aug 26, 2016)

Jason Green said:


> Wow, how much travel is involved going to those? I'm jealous!


They are about 2-3 hours drive. Maybe 4 hours for the October one, and that has minimal BLD so I might skip it.


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## Shaky Hands (Aug 26, 2016)

Jason Green said:


> Wow, how much travel is involved going to those? I'm jealous!



For me at the same comps, 4.25 hour drive, 2.5 hour drive and then for the November one, a 1 hour *walk*.


----------



## h2f (Aug 26, 2016)

Jason Green said:


> Wow, how much travel is involved going to those? I'm jealous!



I think in Europe noone can compare distances you got in US. But maybe I'm wrong. For me comps are usually in 2-3 hours of driving.


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## mark49152 (Aug 26, 2016)

I'm curious which puzzles are most popular or unpopular with us oldies and why. Here's mine.

Events I compete in: 2x2 to 6x6, and all BLD. I don't much care about 2x2 or 6x6 but I like and practise the rest.

Events I might one day get interested in: mega because it looks a challenge; FMC because no TPS and it would suit me when my BLD plateaus and gets frustrating; and pyra because I can.

Events with no appeal to me as of today: OH, skewb, squan, clock. No reason except complete lack of interest.

Events I could never conceive of even considering doing: feet.


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## Jason Green (Aug 26, 2016)

There are a few comps in driving distance that I've missed. For me I guess the biggest thing is having small kids, so it's either leaving for the weekend or not (unless it's in Dallas where I can come home by mid afternoon). 

For puzzles I am doing 2x2 - 5x5 so far. 3x3 and 4x4 are the only ones I care much about. 

I am doing pyraminx and skewb this comp. They are kind of fun. I like the crazy luck you can get. I average probably over 30 but can get a lucky 11 second solve. It seems you skip half the steps sometimes, and I'm not even good enough to know what happened. 

I'm also going to do OH because I make bad decisions. The cut is like 3 minutes so I'll get that, I'm over a minute and don't practice really. 

I'm sure I'll do 6x6 one day. Squan looks kind of cool, I like watching it, but no plans to learn soon. Megaminx does not appeal to be yet. The turning while the cube sits on the table does not seem very fun, I like the toy in my hands at all times.


----------



## Shaky Hands (Aug 26, 2016)

So far I've competed in 2x2-6x6, FMC, OH and Clock.

2x2 is the one I'm most significantly uninterested in. I only started fiddling with OH in the Weekly Comps a couple of weeks before the last proper Competition and don't practice it outside of my 5 scrambles a week. And with a particularly shaky left hand I need to do it right-handed which isn't ideal.

FMC... I only use CFOP at the moment but find it interesting spotting X-crosses and occasional double X-crosses that I'd usually miss. Also beause it gives me a chance to play around with colour-neutrality without any time pressures.

Clock is my official comedy event that I actually quite enjoy.  I also like the fact with Clock in Comps that there's less people competing so I can just sit at a table and wait for my Clock to be brought to me rather than the constant get up, wait, sit back down again, solve, repeat.

I would enter 7x7 in a Competition to try to record a single but there is a 10 min Hard Cut and my PB is currently 9:59.47, so that needs a bit of work!

If I ever seriously consider entering Feet in a Competition, I'd appreciate someone talking me out of it. Tell me the pub's open. That will probably work. 

If I ranked the ones I've done in order of enjoyment I'd go:
1. 5x5
2. 3x3
3. Clock
4. FMC
5. 6x6
6. 4x4
7. OH
8. 2x2

Why 5x5 over 3x3? There's a lot less pressure when I know I won't make the Average Cut but can comfortably make the Hard Cut. With 3x3 I tend to get an average that puts me on the cusp of making Round 2 and it plays on my mind too much.

New 3x3 Ao100 PB today of 24.81. Previous best was 24.93 about 1500 solves ago. Hopefully with a Competition tomorrow, I'm picking the right time to reach a new peak.


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## Lazy Einstein (Aug 26, 2016)

Man. I am having so much trouble trying to cube has a hobby and still trying to adult.
What does your free time look like? 

I can cube maybe once a day for 30 mins tops right now and that is best case scenario when wife and kids are in bed. 
It never happens though. I keep falling asleep and not cubing at all. It has been pretty much since 15 Aug since I have touched a cube.


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## Jason Green (Aug 26, 2016)

Lazy Einstein said:


> Man. I am having so much trouble trying to cube has a hobby and still trying to adult.
> What does your free time look like?
> 
> I can cube maybe once a day for 30 mins tops right now and that is best case scenario when wife and kids are in bed.
> It never happens though. I keep falling asleep and not cubing at all. It has been pretty much since 15 Aug since I have touched a cube.


After kids are in bed I usually cube for 1 to 2 hours. If I'm exhausted I'll rest an hour then get up and cube. Occasionally I skip but not too much. Or if it's a nice night and we sit outside I'll cube then. 

Events I forgot. Clock and feet not interested now. 7x7, will see after 6x6. FMC I think would be fun.

I agree with the less stressful feeling during some events like 5x5, or 4x4 for me, but it doesn't make me like the event more. I kind of enjoy the stress.  But regardless of that 3x3 is just what I like the most.


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## One Wheel (Aug 26, 2016)

If anybody cares to explain to me the aversion to feet I'm all ears. I'm rather enjoying working on feet, and it's probably the event I'm looking forward to most at my first comp next week. I think it's the one event where I can compare my unofficial PBs to official rankings and I'm above average. (2:24.88 single). In general, though, I like bigger cubes. 4x4 is probably my favorite, with 6x6 close behind. 2x2 seems silly to me, and in all honesty I'm not crazy about regular 3x3. FMC is cool, and I think blind will be fun once I finish learning it and can focus on getting better.


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## teacher77 (Aug 26, 2016)

I got a new PB today. The PLL was a Jb perm and I'm pretty sure that the OLL was an anti-sune.

That time is even lower than the PB I acheived 3 weeks ago using an entire LL skip !


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## newtonbase (Aug 26, 2016)

I've done 2x2 to 5x5, OH, Pyraminx, 3BLD, MBLD. I'd miss the time limit on 6x6 and 7x7 so don't practice them. I did decide to stop OH and Pyraminx but I do them if I'm at the comp when they're on. FMC is always on too early for me to get there but I'll try it one day and I might try skewb just to get a ranking. I've never owned a clock but might try it. Feet looks like a boring and unhygienic way to get cramps. 
My main interest is blind. Once I get a MBLD success I'll learn 4BLD but that will probably be next year. 
I'm in a similar situation @Lazy Einstein. Proper practice sessions are rare. I haven't done a timed 3x3 solve this month.


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## h2f (Aug 26, 2016)

I do practice in the breaks durning homework or in the evenings. And of course all Saturday morning I can cube. I can solve all official events but I like the most: all blinds (it's obvious), 3x3, 2x2, skewb, 4x4, FMC. I dont like big cubes (I'm too lazy to pracitce it) though when I start I cant stop them. I like minx but I'm too slow. I havent still practiced pyra. I've practiced clock last year but I've stopped. Occasionaly I do square. I wish I was better in skewb and big cubes. And of course - no feet but I respect people do it.


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## Shaky Hands (Aug 26, 2016)

One Wheel said:


> If anybody cares to explain to me the aversion to feet I'm all ears.



I'd feel sorry for the judge having to stare at my hairy Hobbit feet.


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## One Wheel (Aug 26, 2016)

Shaky Hands said:


> I'd feel sorry for the judge having to stare at my hairy Hobbit feet.



Fair enough. I like my hobbit feet.  Kind of proud of them, if I'm honest. I hate wearing shoes, so I've been called a hobbit and Amish. Just today my brother and sister were telling me that I wasn't solving a Rubik's cube with my feet, but with hooves. They've got a point. Ah, well. I just want to get an official mean at this point, then I'll focus more on other events, and in the future I'll pay my due by scrambling and judging for somebody else to do feet.


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## Lid (Aug 26, 2016)

Also got a new PB today, 3x3 a5: 14.503 [(12.303), 14.609, (26.387), 16.363, 12.537]

The 12.303 was fullstep: U' R2 D2 F2 D' U2 F2 R2 U2 F2 R2 B' D' F D' L' F D' L F' R
x L F' R' Uw L R' // X
U R U' R' - U' L' U L - y' U' L' U L // lol
Dw' R U' R U' R' U R // 4th
y F R U R' U' F' // OLL
U2 R' U2 R U2 R' F R U R' U' R' F' R2 // R
Why can't every solve be like this


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## chtiger (Aug 26, 2016)

done at comp: 2x2, 3x3, pyra, clock, 3bld, 4bld, mbld
practice some at home: sq1
practiced in past, maybe again someday: OH, 4x4
up next: skewb, 5bld
maybe someday: FMC, mega
probably never: feet, 5x5, 6x6, 7x7

Like: clock because I'm not terrible compared to the kids and it's fairly quick, 2x2 because it's so quick and easy to practice, 3x3 because it's the main event that started it all, 3bld and 4bld because it feels like a small accomplishment (MBLD is too long and stressful to like. I expect 5bld to be similar)
Meh: pyra, sq1
Dislike 4x4 (and I assume 5x5-7x7) because I'm horrible and therefore it's annoying. Can't do feet and nobody wants to look at my feet anyway. For OH, I just solved like I would two handed, but I can't do half the algs because they are muscle memory and I don't feel like learning new algs for OH.


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## PlainCuber (Aug 27, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> They are about 2-3 hours drive. Maybe 4 hours for the October one, and that has minimal BLD so I might skip it.



BLD is blind, right? :confused:


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## Shaky Hands (Aug 27, 2016)

PlainCuber said:


> BLD is blind, right? :confused:



Yep, that's right.


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## SpeedCubeReview (Aug 27, 2016)

Lazy Einstein said:


> Man. I am having so much trouble trying to cube has a hobby and still trying to adult.
> What does your free time look like?
> 
> I can cube maybe once a day for 30 mins tops right now and that is best case scenario when wife and kids are in bed.
> It never happens though. I keep falling asleep and not cubing at all. It has been pretty much since 15 Aug since I have touched a cube.



I just always keep a cube with me. When I have a break I will just play with the cube. Not always timing solves. I decided to start learning new algs so when I have time I will just repeat those over and over again.


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## PlainCuber (Aug 27, 2016)

Shaky Hands said:


> Yep, that's right.


Hey, thanks. I literally don't know how anyone can memorize the entire cube to do a BLD. Pretty amazing.


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## newtonbase (Aug 27, 2016)

PlainCuber said:


> Hey, thanks. I literally don't know how anyone can memorize the entire cube to do a BLD. Pretty amazing.


It's easier than you think. You memo around 20 stickers as letters which you turn into 10 words/names/images. There's a bit of work involved in learning a method but I'm certain you could do it.


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## Selkie (Aug 27, 2016)

Sorry been quite inactive last couple of week but we have been on leave at home relaxing and days out so not much internet or cubing time.

@mafergut - Yes I have had quite a few corner twists on the X-Man Galaxy Megaminx too.

@Lid - Pity would have been good to see some solves sir 

@mark49152 , @Shaky Hands - Best of luck in comp this weekend. Any other older UKers going?

Will try and catch up on the thread properly tomorrow and will attempt a sub 2:10 ao5 megaminx on film.


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## SpeedCubeReview (Aug 27, 2016)

PlainCuber said:


> Hey, thanks. I literally don't know how anyone can memorize the entire cube to do a BLD. Pretty amazing.


YA, what Newtonbase said. You are not memorizing the cube itself but instead tracking one pieces to another. Piece L goes to S, S to G, G to E, E to P, etc. So in the end you memorize LS GE P..... Usually on average 20 letters and then you can make words out of them and you end up with about 10 words per solve.


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## PlainCuber (Aug 27, 2016)

SpeedCubeReview said:


> YA, what Newtonbase said. You are not memorizing the cube itself but instead tracking one pieces to another. Piece L goes to S, S to G, G to E, E to P, etc. So in the end you memorize LS GE P..... Usually on average 20 letters and then you can make words out of them and you end up with about 10 words per solve.


Wow! And you do all this in a 15-second inspection?


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## h2f (Aug 27, 2016)

PlainCuber said:


> Wow! And you do all this in a 15-second inspection?



No. You put hands on timer, start it, pickup box, uncover cube, memo it, put blindfold down, execute, put down cube, stop timer. Done. There's no preinspection.


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## SpeedCubeReview (Aug 27, 2016)

PlainCuber said:


> Wow! And you do all this in a 15-second inspection?


I usually take me 1.5-2 minutes to inspect and memorize. The really fast people it's just going through the letters and they have it down. Here is a video I made on it for the basic method of solving. The faster methods are still similar for memorizing but they use more algorithms to swap multiple pieces at the same time.


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## PlainCuber (Aug 27, 2016)

h2f said:


> No. You put hands on timer, start it, pickup box, uncover cube, memo it, put blindfold down, execute, put down cube, stop timer. Done. There's no preinspection.


Thanks for the details. Still amazing to me.


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## newtonbase (Aug 27, 2016)

PlainCuber said:


> Wow! And you do all this in a 15-second inspection?


Although Gianfranco Huanqui does 3BLD for his normal 3x3 solves where he does memo in inspection time. He's pretty special though.


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## Selkie (Aug 27, 2016)

Megaminx: Managed to get a 2:07.28 PB average of 5 with a 1:58.40 PB single this afternoon on film:-


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## PlainCuber (Aug 27, 2016)

SpeedCubeReview said:


> I usually take me 1.5-2 minutes to inspect and memorize. The really fast people it's just going through the letters and they have it down. Here is a video I made on it for the basic method of solving. The faster methods are still similar for memorizing but they use more algorithms to swap multiple pieces at the same time.


Thanks for the video. That was good. One more question: When there's multi-BLD, are they all scrambled the same?



newtonbase said:


> Although Gianfranco Huanqui does 3BLD for his normal 3x3 solves where he does memo in inspection time. He's pretty special though.


Sounds like this guy might be the Feliks Zemdegs of blind solving.


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## h2f (Aug 27, 2016)

PlainCuber said:


> Thanks for the details. Still amazing to me.



You welcome. You should see it on them comp. When I saw the first time Maskow 3bld fight with Grzesiek Jałocha during warmup - it was amazing.


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## h2f (Aug 27, 2016)

PlainCuber said:


> Sounds like this guy might be the Feliks Zemdegs of blind solving.



He had a WR in single. In multi all cubes got different scrambles.


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## Berd (Aug 27, 2016)

PlainCuber said:


> Thanks for the video. That was good. One more question: When there's multi-BLD, are they all scrambled the same?


Absolutely not! They're all different scrambles! 

Edit: ninjad.


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## mark49152 (Aug 27, 2016)

Funny day in comp today. Since last comp I have practised nothing but BLD. So what happens today? I fail miserably to the point of embarrassment in all things BLD, and smash PBs in the events I haven't practised. That's cubing...


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## Shaky Hands (Aug 27, 2016)

Cubing indeed is a funny old game. Hoping for a better 3x3 and 5x5 tomorrow than 2x2 and 4x4 went today.


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## deadcat (Aug 27, 2016)

Cubing causing marital issues for anyone else?


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## Jason Green (Aug 27, 2016)

Good start for Oregon comp. Got pb 18.53 single and 20.13 average I think. Probably not good enough for round two but that's OK.

Late edit: 20.14 for the record.


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## newtonbase (Aug 27, 2016)

deadcat said:


> Cubing causing marital issues for anyone else?


No. Marriage causes cubing issues. 

@mark49152 I saw your 3BLD results and guessed you had gambled with corner comms? Best of luck tomorrow.



Jason Green said:


> Good start for Oregon comp. Got pb 18.53 single and 20.13 average I think. Probably not good enough for round two but that's OK.


Well done.


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## h2f (Aug 27, 2016)

@Jason Green Great! You're better than me now. 

@mark49152 congrats of pbs and 4bld success.


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## mark49152 (Aug 27, 2016)

Thanks Mark and Grzegorz. 

Nice improvement @Jason Green , best of luck tomorrow. 



newtonbase said:


> @mark49152 I saw your 3BLD results and guessed you had gambled with corner comms?


Fortune favours the brave eh . To be fair it was an off day and the comms weren't to blame. Second 3BLD was close, one wrong edge target and a decent time. The others were a mess. The 4BLD success was 5 mins slower than I average.


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## newtonbase (Aug 28, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> Fortune favours the brave eh



It's all Ollie's fault!


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## newtonbase (Aug 28, 2016)

@mark49152 You did clock and so did some other unregistered competitors. Were you all press ganged?


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## CLL Smooth (Aug 28, 2016)

"I got an official 2x2 pb single today." 
"Yay! You're a winner Dad!"


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## Jason Green (Aug 28, 2016)

CLL Smooth said:


> "I got an official 2x2 pb single today."
> "Yay! You're a winner Dad!"


Plus made it to second round in 3x3, OH, and 2x2. You did awesome!


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## CLL Smooth (Aug 28, 2016)

Jason Green said:


> Plus made it to second round in 3x3, OH, and 2x2. You did awesome!


I feel pretty good about all of that too. Congrats on your pbs as well. See you tomorrow.


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## mark49152 (Aug 28, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> It's all Ollie's fault!


It's good advice and I'm glad I did it. Ultimately I want to get faster times and I guess I'll have to suck up a few failures on the way. However, I should have used OP to be safe on the last solve, to get to the next round.



newtonbase said:


> @mark49152 You did clock and so did some other unregistered competitors. Were you all press ganged?


They needed 16 competitors to have 3 rounds so I volunteered. Adam taught me to solve in 2 minutes. I borrowed Andy's clock and did one practice solve. The official 1:58 was my second ever clock solve, just under the 2 minute time limit. So I learned to solve it, got an official result, then smashed my official PB in half, all in the space of 10 minutes .


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## h2f (Aug 28, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> It's good advice and I'm glad I did it. Ultimately I want to get faster times and I guess I'll have to suck up a few failures on the way. However, I should have used OP to be safe on the last solve, to get to the next round.



Thats the same situation I got in my last comp.


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## mark49152 (Aug 28, 2016)

h2f said:


> Thats the same situation I got in my last comp.


At home I'm fairly comfortable with comms now, but I do still have to think harder during the solve. Under comp pressure that was much more difficult. I messed up easy setups/comms that I would have got right at home.


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## newtonbase (Aug 28, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> So I learned to solve it, got an official result, then smashed my official PB in half, all in the space of 10 minutes .


That's pretty cool. 

If it's that easy maybe I should get one. I wouldn't need to waste practice time on it. What brand do people use?


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## teacher77 (Aug 28, 2016)

Lid said:


> Also got a new PB today, 3x3 a5: 14.503 [(12.303), 14.609, (26.387), 16.363, 12.537]
> 
> The 12.303 was fullstep: U' R2 D2 F2 D' U2 F2 R2 U2 F2 R2 B' D' F D' L' F D' L F' R
> x L F' R' Uw L R' // X



How does this work ? I don't get a cross after these moves. Maybe you meant x2 at the begining ?


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## MarcelP (Aug 28, 2016)

Ok, I have had the GAN 356 Air for almost a week now and it is really a nice cube. I have had many 13's and 14's this week. The cube is very controllable causing my averages be quite good. The cube needs lube very often because the surface of the pieces are flat. Without ridges or ribbs. So there is a lot of contact. It gives it the smooth feeling. But it wears lube out very quick. I think I get my best times with this cube out all of my cubes. So I guess it is my main there fore. Having said that, I enjoy cubing the Gan 356 and Gan 356 S ( and V2) more. The Air is less forgiving. It is way more stable. But one good attribute of a cube mostly comes down with a negative point I guess. Oh and.. the Air is the most quiet cube I own.

Here an average of today:


Spoiler: times



13. 16.23 B2 U B2 U' F2 U' L2 F2 R2 B2 D' R' U' L2 F' U2 B' R2 U L'
14. 16.45 F' U' B2 D F2 R2 F2 L2 D B2 F2 U F' R B' F2 L' F2 L2 D
15. 20.05 F L B2 R D2 B D R U B U2 F L2 U2 B' L2 U2 F2 R2 U2
16. 17.17 B' L F R B2 L' U' D B U2 L2 D R2 B2 D2 R2 D B2 D
17. 15.85 B' D2 L2 B' R2 B' F2 D2 F D2 L2 U' L B' U L2 B L2 F U'
18. 18.33 L' U' L U D2 L2 B' D' F' U2 R U2 R' U2 D2 F2 D2 R D2 L2


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## mark49152 (Aug 28, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> If it's that easy maybe I should get one. I wouldn't need to waste practice time on it. What brand do people use?


It's extremely easy to solve although obviously difficult to do it fast. No idea about brands. I don't intend to take up clock .


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## Shaky Hands (Aug 28, 2016)

@newtonbase. Most people prefer the Rubik branded Clock. I have a spare.


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## Lid (Aug 28, 2016)

teacher77 said:


> How does this work ? I don't get a cross after these moves. Maybe you meant x2 at the begining ?


I bet you do the Uw move wrong. x L F' R' Uw L R' (click to see amimation).



Shaky Hands said:


> @newtonbase. Most people prefer the Rubik branded Clock. I have a spare.


Both MoYu and QiYi has clocks coming, you might want to wait for those.


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## newtonbase (Aug 28, 2016)

Lid said:


> Both MoYu and QiYi has clocks coming, you might want to wait for those.


Will do. Ta.


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## teacher77 (Aug 28, 2016)

Lid said:


> I bet you do the Uw move wrong. x L F' R' Uw L R' (click to see amimation).



Check your own animation : no cross.


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## h2f (Aug 28, 2016)

teacher77 said:


> Check your own animation : no cross.



There's cross on blue with two pairs ready to insert. I'll rearange it for you: https://alg.cubing.net/?setup=xU-_R...D-_L_F-_R&alg=x_L_F-_R-_Uw_L_R-&view=playback


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## mark49152 (Aug 28, 2016)

Oh man. The ghosts of competitions past came back to haunt me today. 

I failed two cubes in my MBLD attempt.

Cube 1 - thought I had forgotten to execute parity like I did in London, so I fixed it at the end. But I hadn't forgotten. Cube was correct otherwise.

Cube 2 - executed edge targets as corners! Same reason for my failure at Macclesfield! WTF!!

Apart from those mistakes, my memo, execution and time management were fine, so I will keep plugging away at 8 until successful.


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## h2f (Aug 28, 2016)

Nice Mark. 2nd in mbld anyway.


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## mark49152 (Aug 28, 2016)

I think maybe I should practise MBLD more. The problem is clearly that my memo method is different than usual 3BLD, using images instead of audio for edges. I am so accustomed to executing images as corners that I lapse into that. Maybe practice would help.


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## teacher77 (Aug 29, 2016)

h2f said:


> There's cross on blue with two pairs ready to insert. I'll rearange it for you: https://alg.cubing.net/?setup=xU-_R...D-_L_F-_R&alg=x_L_F-_R-_Uw_L_R-&view=playback



ah damn I'm stupid. I was assuming X on white. Sorry guys.


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## Shaky Hands (Aug 29, 2016)

Time for my usual post-competition analysis:

Saturday

2x2 - got a DNF average, don't practice this outside of the Weekly Comp. Not too fussed.
4x4 - messed up parity on first solve, slow second solve, disappointing
Clock - PB single (16.57) and PB average (22.46) - improving, probably not only a competition PB but a better time than I've got at home too... finished 1 place off making the 2nd round

6x6 - PB single (7:38.93) - 42 second improvement, I'm preferring the Yuxin 6x6 over the Moyu

Sunday

3x3 - first round - terrible first 2 solves were sup-30, then the 3rd solve was so inefficient that I got 28.65 despite it being a PLL skip, 4th solve was a competition PB at 23.91, then the final solve was almost the same at 23.94.
3x3 - second round - better average than the 1st round despite messing up the 3rd solve badly (wrong OLL plus a corner twist.) Final solve was a +2 but wouldn't have made a PB average anyway

3x3 OH - nothing special, don't really practice this and I 2-look most OLL and 2-look all PLL except A, U and Y perms

5x5 - PB single of 3:16.81 - 28 second improvement... this is my favourite event and I'm enjoying making progress in it

Happy to get 5 competition PB's, but as usual the best thing is just being among people that share this great hobby.

To anyone that hasn't yet been to a competition, I can't recommend it enough.


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## muchacho (Aug 29, 2016)

Congrats for those that competed this weekend!

My most to least favourite events right now:
3x3
3x3OH
(Kilominx)
2x2
Skewb
Megaminx
4x4
(Mirror blocks)

And probably BLD will be a high ranked one once I learn it.


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## mafergut (Aug 29, 2016)

Sorry that I've been off the forums form the most part of past week. Last week of vacation so I wanted to get the most out of it. Congrats to all that competed this weekend. If you feel that you did not get the results you wanted remember that there are some of us that have never been to a comp yet so, enjoy the comp and don't get all fussed about it.

Replying to the thread started my @mark49152 ...

Events I compete in: none, sadly, as I said above 

Events I like and would compete in: 2x2 to 7x7, 3BLD, Pyra, Skewb, Mega, OH. In order of "most to least liked" it would be something like 3x3, 4x4, 5x5, 2x2, OH, Mega, 3BLD, Skewb, Pyra, 7x7, 6x6

Events I might one day get interested in: FMC, MBLD, 4BLD, 5BLD but all these need a lot of effort to just learn (not to talk about gettting good at) so I might never find the willpower to really practise them.

Events with no appeal to me as of today: sq-1, clock. SQ-1 because I can't seem to get my head around to learning the dang algs, not even to properly do cube shape, otherwise I'd like it. Clock because it's not a twisty puzzle, so I have always wondered what clock is doing as part of the official WCA event list.

Events I could never conceive of even considering doing: feet. Fully agree with Mark here. My reason is different, though. I hate being barefoot as I'm prone to colds, so I could only practise this during July-August


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## mark49152 (Aug 29, 2016)

Congrats on the PBs @Shaky Hands. Some nice results in Oregon too.

My comp report is pretty much unchanged from Saturday. Failed again on Sunday to get PB in my main event despite it being well within reach. Did OK in 5x5 and 3x3 although I'm now on my worst run of comp 3x3 averages - four in a row without sub-20. 

Overall not a great comp for me in terms of results, although I still enjoyed it thoroughly and that's the main thing. Highlights were 1:05 4x4 average PB, and another silver medal for the collection, in MBLD.

At Guildford, I think I might have to do clock again, otherwise there's a high probability my comp PB run will come to an end .


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## MarcelP (Aug 29, 2016)

deadcat said:


> Cubing causing marital issues for anyone else?


If it would, I would quit cubing immediatly. No hobby could be as important as my family. I plan competitions way ahead, and go practicing at conveniant times. I make sure I am 100% available for family activities.


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## Selkie (Aug 29, 2016)

@mark49152 Nice introduction to the world of clock there mate!! Also some nice PBs and grats on the MBLD podium

@Shaky Hands , Nice summary of events. Those PBs must be really pleasing and 5x5 is a great event to concentrate at as it will help a number of other puzzles mate.


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## Selkie (Aug 29, 2016)

deadcat said:


> Cubing causing marital issues for anyone else?



Not for me but to be fair my wife is doing a degree as well as works full time so I tend to cube whilst she is studying but we both have interests we do apart and others we do together


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## deadcat (Aug 29, 2016)

MarcelP said:


> If it would, I would quit cubing immediatly. No hobby could be as important as my family. I plan competitions way ahead, and go practicing at conveniant times. I make sure I am 100% available for family activities.


That's a good approach. In my case I suppose it's more of a symptom than the cause...


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## Jason Green (Aug 29, 2016)

deadcat said:


> That's a good approach. In my case I suppose it's more of a symptom than the cause...


Yeah I was considering how to respond with a similar idea.  I am once divorced, things like hobbies usually are just a symptom. Or perhaps cubing is a target at which to aim the feelings from other issues???

Marriage troubles suck, good luck I feel for you.


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## Chree (Aug 29, 2016)

MarcelP said:


> If it would, I would quit cubing immediatly. No hobby could be as important as my family. I plan competitions way ahead, and go practicing at conveniant times. I make sure I am 100% available for family activities.



Here, here.



Jason Green said:


> Yeah I was considering how to respond with a similar idea.  I am once divorced, things like hobbies usually are just a symptom. Or perhaps cubing is a target at which to aim the feelings from other issues???
> 
> Marriage troubles suck, good luck I feel for you.



Oh wow, so I'm not the only divorced oldie here? Cubing was never an issue in my marriage, although there was some friction early on. My ex met me while I still loved video games, and I met her while she hated them with a passion. That sorta got beaten (not literally) out of me by the end of things. Cubing was one of the hobbies that survived, luckily. But you're right. If your hobbies are being pointed to as a problem in the relationship, chances are there's a larger problem underlying that.

Btw, @Jason Green, I got zero footage or pictures at Oregon 2016... was just too busy running around all day. I saw you taking a ton of videos/pictures. You think there's any footage of any of my solves in there? Particularly Megaminx?

Also, see if you can find me on facebook. Or the Facebook group "Seattle Cubing Society". A lot of our locals are there and would probably love to see any good shots you got.

Also, too... really good meeting you, man  hope you had a great time.


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## Jason Green (Aug 29, 2016)

@Chree I definitely got some footage of you, unfortunately probably no megaminx.  Sorry about that I would have been happy to get some if I would've known. Actually Jayden asked me about getting his solves from 3x3 finals, so I'm going to try and drop box them or something. If you'd like all the raw footage I'm happy to let you have it (or your solves or whatever). I'm going to try to put together a competition video also. 

I'll look for y'all on FB.


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## Chree (Aug 29, 2016)

Jason Green said:


> @Chree I definitely got some footage of you, unfortunately probably no megaminx.  Sorry about that I would have been happy to get some if I would've known. Actually Jayden asked me about getting his solves from 3x3 finals, so I'm going to try and drop box them or something. If you'd like all the raw footage I'm happy to let you have it (or your solves our whatever). I'm going to try to put together a competition video also.
> 
> I'll look for y'all on FB.



Eeeeeeeexcellent. Thanks man  and no worries about the megaminx stuff. I had no idea I was going to do as well as I did, as it was a freakishly good Round of attempts for me, tbh. 1:15.65 single and 1:19.36 average, netted me 3rd overall.


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## MarcelP (Aug 29, 2016)

Jason Green said:


> I am once divorced, things like hobbies usually are just a symptom.





Chree said:


> Oh wow, so I'm not the only divorced oldie here?



I am 10 years into my second marriage. I learned the hard way that it takes more than 100% commitment in relationships.


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## Jason Green (Aug 29, 2016)

BTW, I didn't do the spectator interviews at the comp. It was partially chicken I guess, but we were also kind of at the end of the mall and I felt like most of the people watching were there for the comp which is not what I was going for. I was envisioning more passing traffic. Great comp though not complaining about that!

Probably won't get 11 PBs at most comps. Haha. Funny this shows my 2x2 average as PB even though it was a tie. 

http://m.cubecomps.com/competitions/1722/competitors/61


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## MarcelP (Aug 29, 2016)

Jason Green said:


> Probably won't get 11 PBs at most comps. Haha. Funny this shows my 2x2 average as PB even though it was a tie.
> 
> http://m.cubecomps.com/competitions/1722/competitors/61


You broke all my PB's except 3x3 average and 3x3 single.  I give it one more competition.. LOL I told you, you are one of the fast growers..


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## Jason Green (Aug 29, 2016)

MarcelP said:


> You broke all my PB's except 3x3 average and 3x3 single.  I give it one more competition.. LOL I told you, you are one of the fast growers..


You guys know so much more than me though. Thank you, I'm humbled. 

Edit: Niece dropped my off at airport early and had my first sub 20 ao100, 19.61. The only "cheat" part was when I had to move around seating, or after lunch etc., I deleted a couple re-warmup solves.


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## mark49152 (Aug 30, 2016)

Hey I'm now #2 oldie in 4x4 average, behind Ron VB. I'm honoured .

@Logiqx, have you thought of adding kinchranks to the 40s rankings? That would give a really nice overview. Even better if it showed kinchranks for classes of events, like on WCADB.net.


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## h2f (Aug 30, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> Hey I'm now #2 oldie in 4x4 average, behind Ron VB. I'm honoured .
> 
> @Logiqx, have you thought of adding kinchranks to the 40s rankings? That would give a really nice overview. Even better if it showed kinchranks for classes of events, like on WCADB.net.



Kinchrank is a great idea.


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## Selkie (Aug 30, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> Hey I'm now #2 oldie in 4x4 average, behind Ron VB. I'm honoured .
> 
> @Logiqx, have you thought of adding kinchranks to the 40s rankings? That would give a really nice overview. Even better if it showed kinchranks for classes of events, like on WCADB.net.



That is awesome news Mark. Huge congratulations.


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## Logiqx (Aug 30, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> Hey I'm now #2 oldie in 4x4 average, behind Ron VB. I'm honoured .
> 
> @Logiqx, have you thought of adding kinchranks to the 40s rankings? That would give a really nice overview. Even better if it showed kinchranks for classes of events, like on WCADB.net.



I'll add it as a "maybe" on my slightly out-of-hand todo list. The ideal scenario would be for WCADB.net to implement an over-40's category where individuals opt-in.

@mark49152. It's been a a while but here's my response to your question about events.

I've also included my methods and my global averages. I haven't been to a competition in almost a year but I'm globally 2.5s faster at 3x3 and 4.0s faster at OH.

*1) 3x3 + OH*

_3x3 (CFOP, average <18): _The main event and the one that the general public recognise! My main method is CFOP but I also enjoy solving with other methods. I know full OLL + PLL + COLL (excluding Sunes).

_OH (CFOP, average <32):_ I don't recall why I started OH but I do recall my first attempts being during a coach trip. I found it hard to recall the 4LLL algs but I persevered and used it as an opportunity to learn what my algs were actually doing (i.e. tracking pieces rather than relying on muscle memory alone). I know full OLL + PLL + COLL (excluding Sunes).

*2) 4x4 + 5x5*

_4x4 (Yau with half centres, average <1:20):_ My first "big cube" event and probably the best result at my first competition, faster than my global average of the time. I did zero 4x4 practice leading up to my second competition and as a consequence, I failed miserably!

_5x5 (free-slice, average <2:50): _I think I enjoy this fractionally more than 4x4 and the lack of PLL parity is a bonus! I've yet to compete 5x5 so hopefully I'll get a PB single when I do compete. 

*3) 2x2 + Pyra*

_2x2 (Ortega, average <6): _I practice this event infrequently but I try to plan as far as I can into the solve (ideally predicting the OLL), leaving just PBL to spam at the end.

_Pyra (LBL, average <10):_ I bought one of these out of curiosity and solved it without a guide within about 10 mins. After an hour, I'd figured out the method / algs that I still use for my sub-10 global average. 

*4) 6x6 + 7x7*

_6x6 (free-slice): _My first real "big cube" and I enjoy the additional challenges / opportunities of the centres.

_7x7 (free-slice):_ Another "big cube" which takes longer to solve but at least it doesn't have triple-parity!

*5) Megaminx + Skewb*

_Megaminx (Ballant method then EO, EP, CP, CO):_ I'm not super-keen on how mega turns but I enjoyed solving it without a guide. I've only solved it a dozen times at most and I still use the same method.

_Skewb (beginner)_: Another puzzle which I figured out for myself but my method was super inefficient (bottom face + corners, top corners, triple-sexy centres). I switched to Sarah's beginner method and the move count has more than halved. lol

*6) Clock + Square-1*

_Clock_: I bought one as a teenager in the late-80's and figured out a basic solution which I've subsequently forgotten. My notes are written on a sheet of dot-matrix printer paper but make absolutely no sense to me now! I'm not particularly interested in learning it before I'm competent at the puzzles above, plus I'd want to figure it out for myself, again.

_Square-1_: This puzzle intrigues me but I don't own one as I know it would end up in a box until I figure out a solution. I'm not particularly interested in learning it before I'm competent at puzzles above. Too little time!

BLD events are on my bucket-list but I have other projects to finish before I embark on that particular journey!


----------



## mark49152 (Aug 30, 2016)

Selkie said:


> That is awesome news Mark. Huge congratulations.


Well, I expect it's just a temporary thing until you next compete: )


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## Shaky Hands (Aug 30, 2016)

Logiqx said:


> _7x7 (free-slice):_ Another "big cube" which takes longer to solve but at least it doesn't have triple-parity!



Just looking at the registrations for the next comp, is 7x7 really the only event you're entering at Guildford? Seems an unusual decision...


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## Logiqx (Aug 30, 2016)

Shaky Hands said:


> Just looking at the registrations for the next comp, is 7x7 really the only event you're entering at Guildford? Seems an unusual decision...



Thanks for the head up. I don't know how that happened to my entry!


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## Selkie (Aug 30, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> Well, I expect it's just a temporary thing until you next compete: )



I wouldn't be too sure there mate. I won't be competing in 4x4 at Guildford as I will only be there for day two and I am out of practice. All recent efforts have been on Megaminx. To the extent where I am having to consciously start other puzzles again as I am aware Guildford is a month away!


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## Jason Green (Aug 30, 2016)

Logiqx said:


> I'll add it as a "maybe" on my slightly out-of-hand todo list. The ideal scenario would be for WCADB.net to implement an over-40's category where individuals opt-in.



So I actually talked to Jeremy Fleischman at Oregon this weekend. He's in charge of the WCA software team, etc. and he said they are hopefully going to be adding back the opt-in for age stats. I did not realize they used to have those, he said they still have birthdates in the private DB.

Anyone else want to get in touch with him about helping with the code? Mike? I'm sure I could message you his email, or you message me yours or something.


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## mark49152 (Aug 30, 2016)

Selkie said:


> I wouldn't be too sure there mate.


Well, I will be watching nervously at UKC . It will be fun to have a little rivalry going.

Actually I have no idea where that 1.05 came from, as I did zero 4x4 practice in the last month, nor 5x5 either. It wasn't lucky on parities either, as far as I recall.


----------



## Lid (Aug 30, 2016)

Got some new cubes yesterday from zcube.
SS Master Kilomix, ~1.5mm smaller & ~20grams lighter than the SS Gigaminx, turns very nicely, aimed for a sub10 solve & got *9:42.83 *on my second try. _edit: and 2 solves later 8:54.17_

The other ones were the QiYi WuShuang (SL) and a 68mm QiYi Sail (see CBCs youtube video for it), fun to play with.


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## Jason Green (Aug 31, 2016)

@MarcelP, your 16.6 average video says it's blocked in my country because of SME copyright. Weird.


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## Logiqx (Aug 31, 2016)

Jason Green said:


> So I actually talked to Jeremy Fleischman at Oregon this weekend. He's in charge of the WCA software team, etc. and he said they are hopefully going to be adding back the opt-in for age stats. I did not realize they used to have those, he said they still have birthdates in the private DB.
> 
> Anyone else want to get in touch with him about helping with the code? Mike? I'm sure I could message you his email, or you message me yours or something.



Cool. I'll be great if the WCA re-introduce age statistics to their website. There's no need for full DOBs to be published... only the "effective age" which changes on a specific day of the year; e.g. 1st Jan.

Coincidentally, I've finally uploaded my code for a basic World Cube Association - Single Person View (wca-spv) to GitHub:

https://www.speedsolving.com/forum/threads/world-cube-association-single-person-view-wca-spv.62237/


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## mafergut (Aug 31, 2016)

Lid said:


> Got some new cubes yesterday from zcube.
> SS Master Kilomix, ~1.5mm smaller & ~20grams lighter than the SS Gigaminx, turns very nicely, aimed for a sub10 solve & got *9:42.83 *on my second try. _edit: and 2 solves later 8:54.17_
> 
> The other ones were the QiYi WuShuang (SL) and a 68mm QiYi Sail (see CBCs youtube video for it), fun to play with.


Wow! Sub-9 on Master Kilominx is great! What times do you get on Gigaminx? I would like to buy the MK but let's see... I don't have any more room for big puzzles in my drawers 

What can you say about the wushuang and big sail? I saw a vid by one of the big guys (don't remember if Lucas or other) and he was turning the big sail like a normal 3x3 at astonishing speeds


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## Selkie (Aug 31, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> Well, I will be watching nervously at UKC . It will be fun to have a little rivalry going.
> 
> Actually I have no idea where that 1.05 came from, as I did zero 4x4 practice in the last month, nor 5x5 either. It wasn't lucky on parities either, as far as I recall.



Sometimes no practice is better than lots to be fair. I know plenty of people who have pulled out PBs with no practice mate. I probably won't touch a 4x4 until after Guildford now so be interesting to see where I get to by then.



Lid said:


> Got some new cubes yesterday from zcube.
> SS Master Kilomix, ~1.5mm smaller & ~20grams lighter than the SS Gigaminx, turns very nicely, aimed for a sub10 solve & got *9:42.83 *on my second try. _edit: and 2 solves later 8:54.17_
> 
> The other ones were the QiYi WuShuang (SL) and a 68mm QiYi Sail (see CBCs youtube video for it), fun to play with.



Hmm, must get a kilominx. I got a gigaminx and got to sub 20 after seeing your posts about them. Hopefully all the mega practice will have helped too 

-------

Started practice for Guidford but only attending Sunday so need to concentrate on Skewb, 5x5, Megaminx and 3x3. Started on 5x5 and pleased to get third fastest average and third fastest single on film this morning. Aim though is a sub 2m average on film before Guildford!

5x5 Average of 5: 2:04.43
5x5 Single: 1:51.17


Spoiler



1. 2:06.26 L U' F L2 l2 u D r' U2 F d' f' b' L2 l' d' u L2 F2 d2 D2 f u2 F2 L l u U f d2 l2 D r' R B D2 l' B2 U' F2 L' F2 f b2 U' l2 u D f2 b2 u' L' u2 L b2 B2 r f L2 b2 
2. 2:02.31 U' F' f2 u2 F2 r2 d F2 l f' b' d2 D2 f R2 B b f' d U' f' r2 F d R2 b2 u b u' B' f2 D l2 B' d D' l' D F b2 R2 D' F2 L u2 L r' b2 d F u2 B2 u2 b U' B2 D2 L2 U2 D2 
3. 2:04.72 U' b d u U2 B f u B u' L D r L' R' b' r2 R2 f u U l' B' R' r' L d2 r2 D d' U b u' l2 u B D B d' B2 D' B r d f2 b U' L' F' R' l2 r F D' L' R' u' B' L' B' 
4. (2:16.65) L r' f D' r U L f' B' R' r2 F' U' L D f2 U l F2 u' L2 D d2 l u2 U f' l2 u b' u' U l L2 D' l' u B' F' u U' d2 l R2 L B2 d l' R' B l' F f2 b l' F2 b' f2 u2 R2 
5. (1:51.17) R L2 b2 l2 f B2 l d2 F' f2 r F B d2 U F' l2 d F f L' r U l' r f F L' d B2 R' b B' u2 d' F' d' U2 r U2 d' R U2 u R B2 L2 F L b l' L2 R b2 u' r' f2 r B' l


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## mafergut (Aug 31, 2016)

Wow! Nice times indeed. I wish I could just average sub... 3 minutes 
Gigaminx under 20 minutes is quite a feat too and points to a possible 2x relation between master kilominx and gigaminx as expected.
By the way I just ordered a Valk 3  Why? Well, why not? And also, I wanted to have a good stickerless 3x3 and I already have a Yuexiao, the Weilong GTS is not available in stickerless, nor the Gans 356 so... it had to be the Valk3 (or the Thunderclap v2, but I went with the Valk). And no, I did not take the opportunity to order a Master Kilominx... maybe when I order the XMD Magnetic Pyra...


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## Jason Green (Aug 31, 2016)

The giant Sail turns really well, I got to play with one. One kid used it for round 2 in OH! I think just to be silly, but he was pretty decent with it. 

Also the Valk is nice, I tried Kevin Hays'.


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## JohnnyReggae (Aug 31, 2016)

All this talk of minxes .... a birthday present to myself 

It's a great solve, but it did take me quite a long time. I'm sure they will get easier. The biggest issue is finding the pieces as there are so many of them.


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## One Wheel (Aug 31, 2016)

I got the big sail as a foot cube and was quite disappointed. I've had some success slowing it down, but not enough. For hand solving though it's not bad. I have been averaging around 34-35 seconds with my thunderclap, and I tried a few times with each of my 3x3s. I didn't do enough for a reliable sample, but the big sail was about 38-39 and my Rubik's was 36-37.

I'm a little torn: I feel like if I put all my free time into BLD over the next few days I can get a success there, but if I put my time into feet I can probably make the soft cut on that. I'll probably keep working mostly on blind.


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## Shaky Hands (Aug 31, 2016)

A few recent PB's
4x4 single: 1:25.56 - first and so far only solve below the UK cutoff time
5x5 single: 2:46.xx - 11 second improvement
7x7 single: 9:26.40 - 33 second improvement

Also, I mentioned this to Mark at the last comp, but I had a 3BLD "almost-success" last week. All solved except for a single corner that I twisted during execution.  Still happy though as I now know I have it within me to get the memo correct.


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## newtonbase (Aug 31, 2016)

Shaky Hands said:


> Also, I mentioned this to Mark at the last comp, but I had a 3BLD "almost-success" last week. All solved except for a single corner that I twisted during execution.  Still happy though as I now know I have it within me to get the memo correct.


I'd call that a success.


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## Selkie (Aug 31, 2016)

@mafergut Miguel, I was going to order the Valk and Moyu Weichuang GTS this evening. Both in stickerless. UK vendor so should be an unboxing before the end of the week.

@Shaky Hands Andy, some great improvement there mate. Nice to see sub cutoff single but if you are concentrating on 5x5 hopefully that one will be there too soon 

@JohnnyReggae Its a great puzzle Brent. Haven't solved mine for a time but it take a lot of time searching for pieces 

@Logiqx Nice breakdoown of your puzzle times. The one that stands out for me is the <32 for OH. Thats very fast for >40. Do you have many different OH algs to 2H?


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## Shaky Hands (Aug 31, 2016)

Selkie said:


> @Shaky Hands Andy, some great improvement there mate. Nice to see sub cutoff single but if you are concentrating on 5x5 hopefully that one will be there too soon



Thanks. Yes, I'm far more into 5x5 at the moment. Main improvement has come from turning faster I think.


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## Logiqx (Aug 31, 2016)

Selkie said:


> @mafergut Miguel, I was going to order the Valk and Moyu Weichuang GTS this evening. Both in stickerless. UK vendor so should be an unboxing before the end of the week.
> 
> @Shaky Hands Andy, some great improvement there mate. Nice to see sub cutoff single but if you are concentrating on 5x5 hopefully that one will be there too soon
> 
> ...


I'd estimate that 30% of my algs are different for OH, excluding basic differences in execution. 13 of my PLLs are different but I'd estimate that only 25% of my OLLs differ. I think 7 of my 28 COLL algs are different.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk


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## mark49152 (Aug 31, 2016)

Shaky Hands said:


> Also, I mentioned this to Mark at the last comp, but I had a 3BLD "almost-success" last week. All solved except for a single corner that I twisted during execution.  Still happy though as I now know I have it within me to get the memo correct.


Ah, an accidental twist? Yeah I'd call that a success too then, definitely. I thought you meant twisted like you'd solved the wrong sticker or something, leaving the buffer twisted too. Which would still be close .


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## bubbagrub (Aug 31, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> I'm curious which puzzles are most popular or unpopular with us oldies and why. Here's mine.



Events I compete in: So far, I've got official singles in every event except 7x7, 4BLD and 5BLD. My goal is to get averages in everything that it's possible to get averages in -- right now the ones I don't yet have averages in are 5x5, 3BLD, feet, Megaminx, Square-1 and 6x6.

Right now I can't imagine ever doing 4BLD or 5BLD, but I hope I will, some day.

For the past couple of months I've been practising Square-1, mostly, as it seems like the one where I'm most likely to be able to get an average (the cut at the next comp is 45 and I'm averaging around 42, so it's not a sure thing, but I still have a few weeks to improve...)

One of my favourite events is FMC. I highly recommend it to other oldies that don't do it, because TPS and agility are not required -- it's an almost entirely mental activity. And although memorising algorithms might be helpful in some cases, it's more about logic and understanding the way the cube works.


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## mark49152 (Sep 1, 2016)

Qualification times for UK Champs are posted on the UKCA site. 6x6 mean 4 mins, 7x7 mean 6 mins, MBLD 3 points. 

@Shaky Hands, no 6x6 for us.

@newtonbase, guess you will be out of luck with MBLD, unless you can successfully appeal that they add it at Guildford to give people a chance to qualify.


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## Jason Green (Sep 1, 2016)

bubbagrub said:


> One of my favourite events is FMC. I highly recommend it to other oldies that don't do it, because TPS and agility are not required -- it's an almost entirely mental activity. And although memorising algorithms might be helpful in some cases, it's more about logic and understanding the way the cube works.



Sometimes I wonder if my mental is fading faster than my fingers. [emoji15]


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## Selkie (Sep 1, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> Qualification times for UK Champs are posted on the UKCA site. 6x6 mean 4 mins, 7x7 mean 6 mins, MBLD 3 points.
> 
> @Shaky Hands, no 6x6 for us.
> 
> @newtonbase, guess you will be out of luck with MBLD, unless you can successfully appeal that they add it at Guildford to give people a chance to qualify.



Ouch, only one 40+ in the world would qualify for that 6x6 mean based on official results and thats François Courtès at 3:59.35!! I only have 3 sub 4 min 6x6 means of which only 1 on film. Pity film doesn't count


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## Shaky Hands (Sep 1, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> Qualification times for UK Champs are posted on the UKCA site. 6x6 mean 4 mins, 7x7 mean 6 mins, MBLD 3 points.
> 
> @Shaky Hands, no 6x6 for us.



Or for @Selkie. Shame, as I enjoy this event. I understand the reasons though.


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## Shaky Hands (Sep 1, 2016)

Selkie said:


> Ouch, only one 40+ in the world would qualify for that 6x6 mean based on official results and thats François Courtès at 3:59.35!! I only have 3 sub 4 min 6x6 means of which only 1 on film. Pity film doesn't count



You might get a sub-4m at Guildford...


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## Selkie (Sep 1, 2016)

Shaky Hands said:


> You might get a sub-4m at Guildford...



Only there for Sunday at Guildford. 6x6 is Saturday mate. Completely understand the reason myself too, there have to be cutoffs and qualification to keep things on time. Only pity is I was planning to trying to catch François. That might be a 2017 goal now


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## Shaky Hands (Sep 1, 2016)

Ah gotcha. For some reason I thought you were there on the Saturday and not the Sunday.


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## Selkie (Sep 1, 2016)

Went to place an order with ThePuzzleStore.UK for the Moyu Weichuang 5x5, Valk 3x3, Thunderclap v2 and a spares of X-Man Galaxy Megaminx and X-Man Tornado all in stickerless but whilst I can pre order the Valk it wont let me pre order the Weichuang which looks like an awesome 5x5 so I will have to keep checking back each day until they have stock.

@Logiqx , wow that is a lot of different OH algs. My hands arent fast enough anymore to warrant that investment of time. Great times sir 

@Shaky Hands , If it wasnt for an elderly (more elderly than me!!) family birthday near Oxford on the Saturday I'd be there to try and qualify


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## jfly (Sep 1, 2016)

Logiqx said:


> Cool. I'll be great if the WCA re-introduce age statistics to their website. There's no need for full DOBs to be published... only the "effective age" which changes on a specific day of the year; e.g. 1st Jan.



I think that could make sense for older people, but probably doesn't make much sense for younger competitors. Here's the GitHub issue Jason was referring to: https://github.com/cubing/worldcubeassociation.org/issues/285. The WCA Software Team is pretty overwhelmed with work (check out our full list of issues), so I do not anticipate anyone working on this anytime soon. That said, if someone from here is interested in helping make it happen, please either drop me an email, or email [email protected] (I don't check speedsolving that often).


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## Selkie (Sep 1, 2016)

@jfly Great to hear it the WCA are open to the idea and I hope one of the thread regulars can assist in this case. agreed it would be somewhat moot for the younger generation it certainly would prove very interesting for us older cubers.

Unfortunately I do not have the relevant skills in this area but will watch with interest. Thanks for taking the time to offer some feedback


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## newtonbase (Sep 1, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> @newtonbase, guess you will be out of luck with MBLD, unless you can successfully appeal that they add it at Guildford to give people a chance to qualify.


That would have been a big disappointment but I was never going to make the Friday evening anyway so I'm already over it.


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## MarcelP (Sep 1, 2016)

Jason Green said:


> @MarcelP, your 16.6 average video says it's blocked in my country because of SME copyright. Weird.


Yeah there was a radio playing so there was this copyright claim. I will reupload later without sound.


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## Jason Green (Sep 1, 2016)

MarcelP said:


> Yeah there was a radio playing so there was this copyright claim. I will reupload later without sound.


Of course, because everyone likes to make mix tapes of illegal songs they get from radio playing on other people's YouTube vids. Plus it's so bad for the band for more people to hear there music. [emoji57]


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## mark49152 (Sep 1, 2016)

Selkie said:


> Ouch, only one 40+ in the world would qualify for that 6x6 mean based on official results and thats François Courtès at 3:59.35!! I only have 3 sub 4 min 6x6 means of which only 1 on film. Pity film doesn't count


That's a shame Chris. Maybe next year. I guess the reason is to do with scrambling, since the event usually has time limits and cut-offs anyway. I didn't compete in 6x6 or 7x7 last year so don't recall how it worked.

Was anyone here planning to do both MBLD and FMC? @bubbagrub?


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## bubbagrub (Sep 1, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> Was anyone here planning to do both MBLD and FMC? @bubbagrub?



Yes... I was planning to do both... I'm not sure which I'll pick, to be honest. I was thinking of going for a jump in MBLD to maybe 6 or 7, but if I end up doing FMC, then it'll have to wait for another competition. 

The cut offs mean I miss out on 6x6 and feet, but I'm ok with that. Plenty of other events.


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## Selkie (Sep 1, 2016)

At last!

Megaminx PB Ao5 = 1:59.88

2:01.61, (1:54.41), (2:06.09), 1:59.81,1:58.21

Sorry it wasn't on film 

I think my Megaminx times have officially overtaken my 5x5 times and I am close to being globally sub 2:10

Edit: Part of a 2:04.18 Ao12:-
2:02.53, 1:54.92,2:12.35, (2:40.37), 2:19.93,2:01.61, (1:54.41), 2:06.09,1:59.81, 1:58.21, 2:01.83, 2:04.47


----------



## muchacho (Sep 1, 2016)

Congrats, that's what I was averaging on Kilominx just some days ago haha 

Kilominx PB now:
Single: 1:06.667
Ao5: 1:19.320
Ao12: 1:34.345


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## mafergut (Sep 1, 2016)

Wow guys, @Selkie, @muchacho, nice times! Sub-2 at Megaminx is pretty dang fast! I was disappointed because I didn't like the Galaxy that much but maybe I'll have to give it another try... on the other hand Juan Pablo Huanqui is sticking to his ridged dayan for the time being so... maybe I should stick to SS as well if that's what works for me... meaning 1min over your times but, also, I have not practiced seriously Megaminx (or anything) in quite a while.


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## MarcelP (Sep 1, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> Was anyone here planning to do both MBLD and FMC? ?


I have done some FMC, invested some time in understanding complex matters. Even got a few good results, but I stopped because it takes so much time to practise. And that time I rather use on 3x3 practise.


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## Selkie (Sep 1, 2016)

@muchacho , @mafergut . Thanks guys. I still seem to be on a steady improvement and haven't hit a plateau yet though improvement is slowing. One thing I have noticed today is I am starting to use more lookahead on megaminx, especially for first 5 F2L slots.

This was the complete megaminx session including a single out of no where and 8 seconds faster than my next best solve!

MEGAMINX
number of times: 32/32
best time: *1:44.93*
worst time: 2:40.37

current avg5: 2:12.30 (σ = 9.86)
best avg5: *1:59.88* (σ = 1.70)

current avg12: 2:10.30 (σ = 7.90)
best avg12: *2:03.81* (σ = 6.23)

session avg: *2:08.37* (σ = 8.76)
session mean: 2:08.86


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## mafergut (Sep 1, 2016)

MarcelP said:


> I have done some FMC, invested some time in understanding complex matters. Even got a few good results, but I stopped because it takes so much time to practise. And that time I rather use on 3x3 practise.


Same problem here but I didn't even get to the part where I invested time in understanding complex matters. I just have a minimal grasp of commutator insertion and not much else. And lately I have less and less time to practise, to the point that I am starting to think I now spend more time buying cubes than really solving them 

I will confess that the surprise unboxing I had prepared for my last video was a Gans 356 Air but SpeedCubeShop let me down and you already beat me to that so...  and, by the way, I'm still waiting for the cube. It has not even shipped yet!!! So I'm a bit angry with them right now. So, if I ever get the dang cube I will unbox it with the Valk 3 and some other new stuff.


----------



## Logiqx (Sep 1, 2016)

jfly said:


> I think that could make sense for older people, but probably doesn't make much sense for younger competitors. Here's the GitHub issue Jason was referring to: https://github.com/cubing/worldcubeassociation.org/issues/285. The WCA Software Team is pretty overwhelmed with work (check out our full list of issues), so I do not anticipate anyone working on this anytime soon. That said, if someone from here is interested in helping make it happen, please either drop me an email, or email [email protected] (I don't check speedsolving that often).



Hi Jeremy. Thanks for the link.

I'm expecting to be pretty busy for the next few weeks but when I get some time, I'll try to get the WCA website up and running at home. I had a quick browse on GitHub so I can see what is involved regarding Vagrant, etc.

I see three pieces of work to move this forward:
1) Add consent to the user profile page, assuming the WCA approve.
2) Include YOB to the database export for those who have consented. Note: My over-40's script could be modified to use the official YOB at this point.
3) Add age rankings to WCADB.NET and/or worldcubeassociation.org. This is the biggest piece of work.

I might be able to help on the first couple of items once I have the WCA website running locally. Looking at my calendar and todo list, it'll probably be a few weeks / months before I find the time!


----------



## newtonbase (Sep 1, 2016)

I hope you are all prepared for registration tonight! I thought it was at 7pm but it says 8pm. I'm going to enter as many events as possible so it will be a first for clock and skewb.


----------



## Jason Green (Sep 1, 2016)

MarcelP said:


> And that time I rather use on 3x3 practise.



Sometimes I feel like we're the only ones that can keep our priorities straight. [emoji12]


----------



## Shaky Hands (Sep 1, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> I hope you are all prepared for registration tonight! I thought it was at 7pm but it says 8pm. I'm going to enter as many events as possible so it will be a first for clock and skewb.



Doing Big-Blind too?


----------



## newtonbase (Sep 1, 2016)

Shaky Hands said:


> Doing Big-Blind too?


I'll register for 4BLD but I haven't learnt it properly yet. Maybe I'll find the time.


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## newtonbase (Sep 1, 2016)

Registered. Number 6.


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## Shaky Hands (Sep 1, 2016)

I was number 5. A bit slow today.


----------



## mark49152 (Sep 1, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> I hope you are all prepared for registration tonight! I thought it was at 7pm but it says 8pm. I'm going to enter as many events as possible so it will be a first for clock and skewb.


I was refreshing every few seconds for the last minute and am still only #7. Slooowww....

EDIT: 35 on the list now and it's not even 5 past...


----------



## bubbagrub (Sep 1, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> I was refreshing every few seconds for the last minute and am still only #7. Slooowww....
> 
> EDIT: 35 on the list now and it's not even 5 past...



I registered myself, and was number 34. I then immediately registered my son, and he was 37...


----------



## newtonbase (Sep 1, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> I was refreshing every few seconds for the last minute and I'm still only #7. Slooowww....
> 
> EDIT: 35 on the list now and it's not even 5 past...


I did exactly the same. We need Andy's IT skillz.


----------



## newtonbase (Sep 1, 2016)

I've just won a bid for a clock on eBay so I'm all set.


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## Selkie (Sep 1, 2016)

I failed on website inspection time! ... 33rd


----------



## bubbagrub (Sep 1, 2016)

This might have some nostalgia value for some of the oldies:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Cubers/comments/50kkq8/the_ideal_solution_this_was_the_original_official/


----------



## muchacho (Sep 1, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> I've just won a bid for a clock on eBay so I'm all set.


It must be the same auction I saw a few hours ago, it was like 19-20 euros including shipping to Spain so I passed, I'll wait for the one (Moyu?) that will be released sooner or later (this year?).


----------



## jfly (Sep 1, 2016)

Logiqx said:


> I see three pieces of work to move this forward:
> 1) Add consent to the user profile page, assuming the WCA approve.
> 2) Include YOB to the database export for those who have consented. Note: My over-40's script could be modified to use the official YOB at this point.
> 3) Add age rankings to WCADB.NET and/or worldcubeassociation.org. This is the biggest piece of work.



That sounds great! Unfortunately, changing the schema of the database export has a tendency to break things for people using the darn CSV export (see https://github.com/cubing/wca-workbook-assistant/pull/115 for an example of this), so we'll have to be careful about how we roll that out.



Logiqx said:


> I might be able to help on the first couple of items once I have the WCA website running locally. Looking at my calendar and todo list, it'll probably be a few weeks / months before I find the time!



Awesome. I could also see adding a consent checkbox to our sign up page (something that might make sense to do ASAP, so as to catch the maximum number of users). Getting vagrant going locally can be a bit of a pain, please feel free to shoot me or [email protected] an email if you have any questions.


----------



## Shaky Hands (Sep 1, 2016)

bubbagrub said:


> This might have some nostalgia value for some of the oldies:
> 
> https://www.reddit.com/r/Cubers/comments/50kkq8/the_ideal_solution_this_was_the_original_official/



I never managed to solve a cube until last year when I decided to learn. I had a cube way way back, but it was more or less something that just moved around the house without anyone ever making any progress. I never encountered anyone that could solve one back in the day and didn't even know that the 4x4 and bigger cubes existed until I saw it on youtube. Our local library (hmmm, remember them? ) may have had a copy of the solution somewhere, but I would fully expect it to be an archaic solution by modern standards. Probably why they use a corner-first method in that book like I recall in the movie Let the Right One In (cool film, BTW, the original version anyway.)

Back in the day, anyone that could solve a cube would have been considered a learned savant! I get the feeling that the older you are the more amazed your peers will be about this hobby.


----------



## bubbagrub (Sep 1, 2016)

First 84 registered competitors are up:

https://www.worldcubeassociation.org/competitions/UKChampionship2016/registrations

Looks to me like quite a few people have ignored the qualification times... (@Berd...)


----------



## Berd (Sep 1, 2016)

bubbagrub said:


> First 84 registered competitors are up:
> 
> https://www.worldcubeassociation.org/competitions/UKChampionship2016/registrations
> 
> Looks to me like quite a few people have ignored the qualification times... (@Berd...)


Eh?


----------



## newtonbase (Sep 1, 2016)

muchacho said:


> It must be the same auction I saw a few hours ago, it was like 19-20 euros including shipping to Spain so I passed, I'll wait for the one (Moyu?) that will be released sooner or later (this year?).



There have been a couple today. I was beaten on the first. I didn't really want a boxed one as I'd worry about damaging it. I did consider waiting for the new ones but they might not be out until after my last competition of the year. 



Shaky Hands said:


> I never managed to solve a cube until last year when I decided to learn. I had a cube way way back, but it was more or less something that just moved around the house without anyone ever making any progress. I never encountered anyone that could solve one back in the day and didn't even know that the 4x4 and bigger cubes existed until I saw it on youtube. Our local library (hmmm, remember them? ) may have had a copy of the solution somewhere, but I would fully expect it to be an archaic solution by modern standards. Probably why they use a corner-first method in that book like I recall in the movie Let the Right One In (cool film, BTW, the original version anyway.)
> 
> Back in the day, anyone that could solve a cube would have been considered a learned savant! I get the feeling that the older you are the more amazed your peers will be about this hobby.


I never knew anyone who could solve either. We all had cubes but never got past a side. You would hear stories about someone's brother's mate who did 2 sides once.


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## Berd (Sep 1, 2016)

bubbagrub said:


> First 84 registered competitors are up:
> 
> https://www.worldcubeassociation.org/competitions/UKChampionship2016/registrations
> 
> Looks to me like quite a few people have ignored the qualification times... (@Berd...)


Oh I see what you mean! That sucks.


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## newtonbase (Sep 1, 2016)

Berd said:


> Eh?


I think he's talking about your feet.


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## mark49152 (Sep 1, 2016)

bubbagrub said:


> Looks to me like quite a few people have ignored the qualification times... (@Berd...)


Also looks like the organisers have not done any filtering yet. Presumably those people will at some point be deregistered from the events they're not qualified for.


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## mafergut (Sep 1, 2016)

Shaky Hands said:


> I never managed to solve a cube until last year when I decided to learn. I had a cube way way back, but it was more or less something that just moved around the house without anyone ever making any progress. I never encountered anyone that could solve one back in the day and didn't even know that the 4x4 and bigger cubes existed until I saw it on youtube. Our local library (hmmm, remember them? ) may have had a copy of the solution somewhere, but I would fully expect it to be an archaic solution by modern standards. Probably why they use a corner-first method in that book like I recall in the movie Let the Right One In (cool film, BTW, the original version anyway.)
> 
> Back in the day, anyone that could solve a cube would have been considered a learned savant! I get the feeling that the older you are the more amazed your peers will be about this hobby.


I used Layer-by-layer to solve the cube back in the 80s. Not sure where I got the method from, maybe a friend. I still have a paper sheet where I wrote by hand the algs and instructions to solve the last layer, which basically were beginner's method. I remember that I even had a LL skip once (I have not had one since I started to speedsolve in 2013 but I had one back then) and I was even timing myself so that was my all time record (until I beat it in 2013) of 48 seconds. My normal times were around 1:20. Now, seeing that solution I remember I must have seen it somewhere at the time but, oh man, what a terribly complex solution by current standards...


----------



## Selkie (Sep 1, 2016)

bubbagrub said:


> This might have some nostalgia value for some of the oldies:
> 
> https://www.reddit.com/r/Cubers/comments/50kkq8/the_ideal_solution_this_was_the_original_official/



Oh fond, fond memories Ben. I remember this solution document so well since I owned one. I also remember the book called called "You Can Do The Cube" that had an adjacent edge flip alg I used from the publication if the book (~82?) until 2010.

I was lucky to be bought one of these new fangled puzzles by my Aunt when they were released in UK. 1981? I still remember surreal things such as a playground in a primary school full of children not running but all you could hear was 'clack, clack' and motionless kids.

Myself and a group of close friends were completely hooked and through collective sharing of knowledge and friends of friends learned how to solve it within 6 months. There was a lot of Niklas and Sune spamming but we felt accomplished all the same 

I never forgot an alg in all those years (only know 6 or so) and could always solve if needed, even if years apart and in ~2001 got into solving again and wanted to get faster. I tried to mod a few old Rubik brand but the resurgence had not taken place yet and the resources were poor and though I wanted to learn Friddich the lac of resources and too much work made me lose interest

In 2010, Six years ago my wife bought me a stocking filler, guess what it was. She now wishes she hadn't....


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## Lid (Sep 2, 2016)

Finally first PB with X-man: *1:36.66 *single, will try to push for sub1:50 a12 this month.
All the recent 2x2 practice is showing also, *4.65* a12 today, 11 CLL & 1 EG-1 used.



Selkie said:


> @Logiqx Nice breakdoown of your puzzle times. The one that stands out for me is the <32 for OH. Thats very fast for >40. Do you have many different OH algs to 2H?





Logiqx said:


> I'd estimate that 30% of my algs are different for OH, excluding basic differences in execution. 13 of my PLLs are different but I'd estimate that only 25% of my OLLs differ. I think 7 of my 28 COLL algs are different.


This made me check my own alg sets for OH, for PLL I count 9 different (E, H, Ra, Rb, F, T, V, Na & Y), OLL 8? hard to tell since I use many alternative OLLs for both 2H & OH ("OLLCP"), COLL 6/40 (2 U, 1 T, 2 Pi, 1 H). Oh and yes I'm a righty so everything is mirrored for me OH:ed.


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## Jason Green (Sep 2, 2016)

I never solved it when I was young. My brother and I would do one face intuitively and that was it. My older brothers and cousin could solve apparently (I found out now) but I don't even remember. Guess my interest level was not high enough. 

A guy my age at work used to compete and (he thinks) win contests with about 1:30 times. He went and watched a comp with me last year before I thought I would compete, and he kept saying how amazing it was and that maybe he forgot how fast he was.  I was equally amazed at that point, just starting to get under 1:00 at the time.


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## bubbagrub (Sep 2, 2016)

Selkie said:


> I was lucky to be bought one of these new fangled puzzles by my Aunt when they were released in UK. 1981? I still remember surreal things such as a playground in a primary school full of children not running but all you could hear was 'clack, clack' and motionless kids.



Yes, 1981.  Today is actually the 35th anniversary of the day I wrote, at school, that I'd just got a Rubik's cube:

http://imgur.com/hvARe9u

I sadly didn't learn to solve it as a kid. I figured out how to solve one side, and extended that in a basic way to solving a couple of faces, but didn't have the patience or self-belief to learn to solve it fully until many years later.


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## h2f (Sep 2, 2016)

_Af_ter few months of usinig MFG skewb I've realized that it's too fast for me and hard to control. Next I've realized I can set up balls in it. 30 minutes passed and I _rem_embered how to do it. Now it's harder and better for me. I rolled down my times to 10.48 ao100.


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## Logiqx (Sep 2, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> Also looks like the organisers have not done any filtering yet. Presumably those people will at some point be deregistered from the events they're not qualified for.


Ah. I hadn't noticed the qualification requirements for 6x6 and 7x7.

I just started practicing them again this week. I'll spend my time on 5x5 and 4x4 instead!

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk


----------



## JohnnyReggae (Sep 2, 2016)

mafergut said:


> I used Layer-by-layer to solve the cube back in the 80s. Not sure where I got the method from, maybe a friend. I still have a paper sheet where I wrote by hand the algs and instructions to solve the last layer, which basically were beginner's method. I remember that I even had a LL skip once (I have not had one since I started to speedsolve in 2013 but I had one back then) and I was even timing myself so that was my all time record (until I beat it in 2013) of 48 seconds. My normal times were around 1:20. Now, seeing that solution I remember I must have seen it somewhere at the time but, oh man, what a terribly complex solution by current standards...


I originally learnt in 1981 when they were first released in South Africa. About a week after I got my first cube I got hold of a single A4 typed out page with the solution. It is a simple beginners solution which uses Niklaus to permutate and orient the corners as a last step ... I still have the original page that I think I paid R1 (Zar) for back then which was a lot of money for me then as I think my total monthly allowance was around R6. Using this method back in 1981 my fastest time was around 1:30


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## mafergut (Sep 2, 2016)

This is my hardwritten "solution guide" (sorry, it's in Spanish) to the Rubik's Cube from 1987  By then I had spent at least 3 years hooked with the puzzle. I even had two cubes, the first one turned quite nicely but I have lost it since. The second one was an original Rubik that turned really bad. After many years lost it showed up at my parents house a couple years ago, missing some stickers and center caps and all sticky, so sadly I don't keep any of my original puzzles


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## SenorJuan (Sep 2, 2016)

It's my birthday imminently, so I've bought myself some toys from MartyWolfman's "thepuzzlestore.uk" shop.
A Yuxin mirrorblocks, which I've thought would be fun to solve unsighted ( Seppomania is nifty at this ), and a standard domino. I've wanted one of these for decades, but after the early eighties they seemed to stop making them, and despite looking out for them at car boot sales since the late 80's, I never saw one. Thankfully they are easily obtained now. I did try simulating one with a bandaged Revenge, but it's not the same.
And finally a great-looking novelty, the Eitan Cher Twist cube. I couldn't make up my mind which to go for, the 'standard cube' looking one, or the 'Fisher cube' type. I think the Fisher one actually behaves more like the normal cube, despite appearances. There's not much in it, so the 'standard cube' one got the vote. I just think it looks cool when solved.

Marty's shop seems to have an ever-increasing stock, though no 3x3x3 ghost cube, just the 2x2x2. That's another one I'm considering, and Oskar Van Deventers Mixup cube.


----------



## SenorJuan (Sep 2, 2016)

HaHa! "...an original Rubik's cube..... it showed up at my parents house a couple years ago, missing some stickers and center caps and all sticky"
I have my first cube from 1980, and it has that 'sticky' thing going on, too. And a couple of missing stickers. I intend sympathetically restoring it (without destroying the patina of time!!) some day. It's definitely my first, as the second, third, fourth etc all ended up modified, in some way or another, and this one just looks worn, but un-modded.


----------



## mafergut (Sep 2, 2016)

SenorJuan said:


> Marty's shop seems to have an ever-increasing stock, though no 3x3x3 ghost cube, just the 2x2x2. That's another one I'm considering, and Oskar Van Deventers Mixup cube.



For some reason or other I end up not solving very frequently, if at all, all those non-WCA puzzles I buy, like mirrorblocks, mastermorphix, dino, rex, curvycopter... but I also have thought several times I'd like an Oskar Mixup and a 3x3 Ghost in my collection. Tell us if you end up buying some of them.


----------



## One Wheel (Sep 2, 2016)

mafergut said:


> This is my hardwritten "solution guide" (sorry, it's in Spanish) to the Rubik's Cube from 1987  By then I had spent at least 3 years hooked with the puzzle. I even had two cubes, the first one turned quite nicely but I have lost it since. The second one was an original Rubik that turned really bad. After many years lost it showed up at my parents house a couple years ago, missing some stickers and center caps and all sticky, so sadly I don't keep any of my original puzzles
> View attachment 6822 View attachment 6823



I'm feeling embarrassingly young reading this. . . . I was born in 1987 and got my first Rubik's cube in 2015. I usually gravitate toward people younger than myself, so it's kind of nice to feel like the young punk every once in a while. Thanks!


----------



## mafergut (Sep 2, 2016)

One Wheel said:


> I'm feeling embarrassingly young reading this. . . . I was born in 1987 and got my first Rubik's cube in 2015. I usually gravitate toward people younger than myself, so it's kind of nice to feel like the young punk every once in a while. Thanks!


I was born in 1970 and when I found these sheets of paper in a box a few years ago I was surprised that the "guide" was from that late into the 80s. Now I have been thinking about it for some time and I remembered the 1st time I saw a Rubik's cube it was 1984 at the latest (I know because I went to live somewhere else in the summer of 1984), but probably more like 1982. I also remember I got my 1st cube soon after that. I even remember me solving it at school when I was between 6th and 8th grade before I started high school in 1984. So probably this is not my "original" guide but a copy I made of an earlier one that I must have lost. But, in any case, all this confirms I had a sustained interest in solving the Rubik's cube for at least 4-5 years from 1982/83 to 1987. A pity I lost interest after that.

Also, you are welcome to stay here among us oldies, young punk!


----------



## newtonbase (Sep 2, 2016)

SenorJuan said:


> It's my birthday imminently, so I've bought myself some toys from MartyWolfman's "thepuzzlestore.uk" shop.
> A Yuxin mirrorblocks, which I've thought would be fun to solve unsighted ( Seppomania is nifty at this ), and a standard domino. I've wanted one of these for decades, but after the early eighties they seemed to stop making them, and despite looking out for them at car boot sales since the late 80's, I never saw one. Thankfully they are easily obtained now. I did try simulating one with a bandaged Revenge, but it's not the same.
> And finally a great-looking novelty, the Eitan Cher Twist cube. I couldn't make up my mind which to go for, the 'standard cube' looking one, or the 'Fisher cube' type. I think the Fisher one actually behaves more like the normal cube, despite appearances. There's not much in it, so the 'standard cube' one got the vote. I just think it looks cool when solved.
> 
> Marty's shop seems to have an ever-increasing stock, though no 3x3x3 ghost cube, just the 2x2x2. That's another one I'm considering, and Oskar Van Deventers Mixup cube.


Marty is a top bloke and I highly recommend his store. 

I really like the Yuxin mirror blocks, especially the pink one. Solving by touch is good fun. I once asked Seppomania if he'd tried it and he said "you mean this?" and linked to video of him doing it in about 30s!


----------



## bubbagrub (Sep 2, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> Marty is a top bloke and I highly recommend his store.



Definitely. I've bought many puzzles from him, including a delivery that just arrived today:







At first try, that crazy 4x4 seems nigh-on impossible... I can now see why there's been so much fuss about the kilominx, though -- it's really fun to solve...


----------



## mafergut (Sep 2, 2016)

bubbagrub said:


> Definitely. I've bought many puzzles from him, including a delivery that just arrived today:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That Dayan Gem looks pretty. And that crazy 4x4 looks like a nice challenge. How do they turn? And what brand is the 4x4... just in case I decide to get one 
You're the 2nd one in the forum that gets the 356 Air before I do. But, at least, SCS has shipped mine already yesterday!!!


----------



## bubbagrub (Sep 2, 2016)

mafergut said:


> That Dayan Gem looks pretty. And that crazy 4x4 looks like a nice challenge. How do they turn? And what brand is the 4x4... just in case I decide to get one
> You're the 2nd one in the forum that gets the 356 Air before I do. But, at least, SCS has shipped mine already yesterday!!!


The Dayan Gem turns pretty nicely, although it's very light because it's pretty much hollow, so it feels quite fragile (and has popped already...)

The crazy 4x4 is fairly stiff, and will never be a speed puzzle, of course. So far I've managed to solve the centres, like a 2x2, but I guess the right first step is to pair up the little edge pieces, which I have no idea how to do. It's a Dayan & MF8, version 3: http://thepuzzlestore.uk/dayan-mf8-crazy-4x4-version-iii/

The Air seems nice, although I've not yet tried playing with the tensions and such.


----------



## SenorJuan (Sep 2, 2016)

I'm curious as to what parity type problems may occur on that 4x4x4.


----------



## bubbagrub (Sep 2, 2016)

SenorJuan said:


> I'm curious as to what parity type problems may occur on that 4x4x4.


If I ever get that far, I'll let you know...


----------



## Selkie (Sep 3, 2016)

Lid said:


> Finally first PB with X-man: *1:36.66 *single, will try to push for sub1:50 a12 this month.
> All the recent 2x2 practice is showing also, *4.65* a12 today, 11 CLL & 1 EG-1 used.



Loving the X-Man myself Stefan. Had an insane 1:44.xy PB single yesterday together with a sub 2m Ao5 but coouldnt get a sub 2 avg on film today. Will try again tomorrow.



SenorJuan said:


> It's my birthday imminently, so I've bought myself some toys from MartyWolfman's "thepuzzlestore.uk" shop.
> A Yuxin mirrorblocks, which I've thought would be fun to solve unsighted ( Seppomania is nifty at this ), and a standard domino. I've wanted one of these for decades, but after the early eighties they seemed to stop making them, and despite looking out for them at car boot sales since the late 80's, I never saw one. Thankfully they are easily obtained now. I did try simulating one with a bandaged Revenge, but it's not the same.
> And finally a great-looking novelty, the Eitan Cher Twist cube. I couldn't make up my mind which to go for, the 'standard cube' looking one, or the 'Fisher cube' type. I think the Fisher one actually behaves more like the normal cube, despite appearances. There's not much in it, so the 'standard cube' one got the vote. I just think it looks cool when solved.
> 
> Marty's shop seems to have an ever-increasing stock, though no 3x3x3 ghost cube, just the 2x2x2. That's another one I'm considering, and Oskar Van Deventers Mixup cube.





newtonbase said:


> Marty is a top bloke and I highly recommend his store.
> 
> I really like the Yuxin mirror blocks, especially the pink one. Solving by touch is good fun. I once asked Seppomania if he'd tried it and he said "you mean this?" and linked to video of him doing it in about 30s!



My last order was from him and my next one is. Seems like a great store. Does the guy compete at comp?


----------



## newtonbase (Sep 3, 2016)

Selkie said:


> Does the guy compete at comp?



No. He's not a speedcuber. He's a fan of all things twisty. I've followed him on YouTube since I started solving as he has some excellent tutorials on less common puzzles.


----------



## Jason Green (Sep 3, 2016)

All those old handwritten papers are really great!


----------



## Selkie (Sep 3, 2016)

@newtonbase Thanks Mark, did not realise, will add to my subscribed lists!

Decided I could not wait for the stickerless Weichuang 5x5, placed the order including the black version for:-


1 x QiYi New Thunderclap (v2) 3x3 Speed Cube 
(Color: Stickerless / Coloured plastic)
1 x Shengshou 2x2 Megaminx AKA Kilominx 
(Colour: White Body)
1 x Moyu 5x5x5 Weichuang GTS 
(Color: Black Body)
1 x QiYi Valk 3 
(Color: Stickerless / Coloured plastic)(Expected release date is 4th Sep 2016)
Will do an unboxing of course


----------



## Chree (Sep 3, 2016)

Did a full Shengshou 2-5 Minx relay last night while hanging with @CLL Smooth. Forgot how to do Kilo LL, because I haven't touched the thing since well before Nats:

24:11.93.

Was done with Giga by 14. Master Kilo prob took about 8. Mega was probably sub1:30... meaning Kilo was almost definitely sup1 :-/

Y'all need this Master Kilo in your lives.


----------



## bubbagrub (Sep 3, 2016)

Puzzle orders are like buses... None come, and then two come at once. Another delivery today:






And, because it's so unusual, here's the box for the Lovebird:






Very initial reactions:

The Lovebird looks amazing. It's quite hard to turn some of the faces, and it feels like it might be easy to break -- all the pieces are corners set on fairly flimsy-seeming stalks. I'm hoping it'll be fun to solve, though.

The 2x2 ghost cube feels really cheap, and some of the pieces seem quite poorly constructed. But it turns incredibly smoothly. And I'm hoping it'll look good once I sticker it.

I popped the Bubbloid on my first few turns. So I know to be more gentle with it... It looks incredible but I have a feeling it'll be hard to solve. We'll see...


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## mafergut (Sep 3, 2016)

bubbagrub said:


> Puzzle orders are like buses... None come, and then two come at once. Another delivery today:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Wow! You are getting quite a collection there! I have not bought that 2x2 ghost myself due to the same cheap feeling, commented on several unboxing videos. Regarding the bubbloid it's quite easy to solve, no algs other than up up down down with some easy setups.

Sent from my Nexus 4 with Tapatalk


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## bubbagrub (Sep 3, 2016)

mafergut said:


> Wow! You are getting quite a collection there! I have not bought that 2x2 ghost myself due to the same cheap feeling, commented on several unboxing videos. Regarding the bubbloid it's quite easy to solve, no algs other than up up down down with some easy setups.



Ah -- good to know about the Bubbloid. I wonder if I might have got a bad one, though, as the pieces seem to fall out very easily...

I've stickered and solved the 2x2 ghost cube now. It's much, much easier than the 3x3 ghost cube, but still quite fun. I suspect it'll be one of those puzzles that just sits on my shelf looking pretty, rather than one I'll solve often.

I've started on the Lovebird, and so far it seems quite straightforward -- I guess it's just a tuttminx without edges, so maybe I'll actually be able to solve it (I've got so, so close with the Tuttminx but just can't figure out the last layer...)


----------



## mafergut (Sep 3, 2016)

bubbagrub said:


> Ah -- good to know about the Bubbloid. I wonder if I might have got a bad one, though, as the pieces seem to fall out very easily...
> 
> I've stickered and solved the 2x2 ghost cube now. It's much, much easier than the 3x3 ghost cube, but still quite fun. I suspect it'll be one of those puzzles that just sits on my shelf looking pretty, rather than one I'll solve often.
> 
> I've started on the Lovebird, and so far it seems quite straightforward -- I guess it's just a tuttminx without edges, so maybe I'll actually be able to solve it (I've got so, so close with the Tuttminx but just can't figure out the last layer...)


Check if you've got one of the first batches that had springs on the screws and remove the springs. That should solve the issue according to some video I watched.

Sent from my Nexus 4 with Tapatalk


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## JohnnyReggae (Sep 3, 2016)

SenorJuan said:


> HaHa! "...an original Rubik's cube..... it showed up at my parents house a couple years ago, missing some stickers and center caps and all sticky"
> I have my first cube from 1980, and it has that 'sticky' thing going on, too. And a couple of missing stickers. I intend sympathetically restoring it (without destroying the patina of time!!) some day. It's definitely my first, as the second, third, fourth etc all ended up modified, in some way or another, and this one just looks worn, but un-modded.


I still have my original cube from 1981 still in mint condition but very stiff and difficult to turn, along with 3 others that I got in 1982, a hexagonal barrel, a Space Shuttle, and a fruit cube. The space shuttle had lost a number of it's stickers so I decided to replace them only to find that the core was cracked :-( when I was cleaning it up.


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## bubbagrub (Sep 3, 2016)

mafergut said:


> Check if you've got one of the first batches that had springs on the screws and remove the springs. That should solve the issue according to some video I watched.


Thanks -- I'll check that. Tony Fisher also has a good video in which he has the same problem I have, and he said tightening the screws fixed it. So I'll try both...


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## h2f (Sep 3, 2016)

That's how I DNFed my skewb attempts. 





I'm also happy with my 3bld - this time I was fourth. First solve - DNF - was 1:20 but I did cycles in wrong order. I mean it should be GM - WK but I did WK - GM. It was the first time when I did all algs ok - no mistakes in setups and any other casues. The second solve - I've stucked during memo so decided for safe solve (2:xx). 3rd - just staright ahead. Now I'm gonna to work with my memo time cause all algs are fine.


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## newtonbase (Sep 3, 2016)

h2f said:


> That's how I DNFed my skewb attempts.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Well done @h2f 

Do you or anyone else here have blind alg lists you are willing to share? I've been working on a few edge pair algs myself today that seem pretty quick but can't see that anyone else uses them. They are all for opposite pairs such as FP, OG, HN etc


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## h2f (Sep 3, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> Well done @h2f
> 
> Do you or anyone else here have blind alg lists you are willing to share? I've been working on a few edge pair algs myself today that seem pretty quick but can't see that anyone else uses them. They are all for opposite pairs such as FP, OG, HN etc



Thanks. My results: http://cubecomps.com/live.php?cid=1724&compid=39

My algs are in the signature but the list need to be renewed - I've changed some of them. The alg list based on M2 and UBL I like is made by Meneghetti: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...VmYleiLUnWuUUIWf4aTPQkj0bg/edit#gid=985782076
Mark, If you translate FP, OG etc on names like BF etc. I can tell you how I do it.


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## Lid (Sep 3, 2016)

Megaminx 1:40.46 a5! [1:37.80, (1:58.32), 1:45.18, 1:38.41, (1:37.52)]

Feeling almost 100% comfortable with the current colour arrangement, cream top, then clockwise around, grey,orange,light blue,pink,light green - white bottom, green opposite light green then clockwise, purple, blue, red, yellow. Now I wish that I could get a side with blacktiles for my Xman's.


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## newtonbase (Sep 3, 2016)

h2f said:


> Thanks. My results: http://cubecomps.com/live.php?cid=1724&compid=39
> 
> My algs are in the signature but the list need to be renewed - I've changed some of them. The alg list based on M2 and UBL I like is made by Meneghetti: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...VmYleiLUnWuUUIWf4aTPQkj0bg/edit#gid=985782076
> Mark, If you translate FP, OG etc on names like BF etc. I can tell you how I do it.


I like Meneghetti's algs. Signatures don't show on my phone but they can be found.
A couple that I found were
OG (DF-RD-LD) is M' D M D2 M' D M
HN (DF-LB-RB) is x' U' M U2 M' U' x
They are pretty similar.

Edit: errors fixed.


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## h2f (Sep 3, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> I like Meneghetti's algs. Signatures don't show on my phone but they can be found.
> A couple that I found were
> OG (DF-RB-LB) is M' D M D2 M' D' M
> HN (DF-LB-RB) is x' U' M U2 M' U' x
> They are pretty similar.


DF-RB-LB - your alg doesnt work. I do: R' U; [M', U L U'] = R' U M' U L U' M U L' U2 R.
DF-LB-RB - I do inverserly. I like the alg you gave Mark but these ones seems to me more natural. I mean - it's a setup to very easy alg which I do when I can with FU as a interechange sticker.
Haven't you made mistake in a letter scheme in the second alg?

Edit: my list 
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...ChF2LBSyykfOrfX9CGiJOb-LZM/edit#gid=500082385


----------



## bubbagrub (Sep 3, 2016)

h2f said:


> Thanks. My results: http://cubecomps.com/live.php?cid=1724&compid=39



Wow -- 10 second cutoff for pyraminx? That's pretty harsh...
Well done on the 2x2 PB. And that final 3BLD result is super impressive...


----------



## mark49152 (Sep 3, 2016)

Congrats on the comp results @h2f.

I like your alg for RB-LB. Setups to FU are definitely a good next step from M2 to comms.

I don't do anything special for these targets, just vanilla M2, but sometimes I will do a wide setup to something nicer. RB-LB can be setup by Uw to FR-BR which is faster with a nice cancellation too.


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## newtonbase (Sep 3, 2016)

I've fixed my alg @h2f 

I like FU but I only use it where that's one of the targets so far. I should really concentrate on corner comms but edges are so much easier.


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## One Wheel (Sep 4, 2016)

mafergut said:


> Also, you are welcome to stay here among us oldies, young punk!



Thanks! I'll try to not make a nuisance of myself.

In other news:

I just got home from my first competition. I was aiming for sub-35 on 3x3, got 35.85. good for 70th out of 87. 3:01.53 Feet single wasn't enough to get a mean (2:15 soft cut), but good for 7th out of 13 competitors. Blind I hit the 15 minute limit before I was done with execution, but I was headed for a DNF even if I'd had infinite time. I'm not sure if I messed up execution or if it was just memo. Probably both. I've only had one successful blind solve, and that wasn't timed, so it's hardly a surprise.

Overall I wasn't blown away. Not to be too harsh, and this may be just me, but I saw lots of kids whose parents seem to be trying to figure out how to spend more money on them. I think I'll wait for another competition that is both convenient AND has a list of events I'm really interested in before I make a final judgment. Maybe by then I'll be able to do BLD then, and hopefully 4BLD and 5BLD, too. And definitely 4x4. In the meantime, I think I enjoy the forum competitions more.


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## h2f (Sep 4, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> I like Meneghetti's algs. Signatures don't show on my phone but they can be found.
> A couple that I found were
> OG (DF-RB-LB) is M' D M D2 M' D M
> HN (DF-LB-RB) is x' U' M U2 M' U' x
> ...



Mark, I've checked speffz and OG is DF - RD - LD. Meneghetti does: [Bw: R2, U' M2 U]. I do setup to FU and it's up which target is first. For OG I do R2 U; [M', U L2 U']; for GO inverserly. Both have nice cancelation and are 11movers. 

HN is DF-LB-RB and we have written about it. 



mark49152 said:


> Congrats on the comp results @h2f.
> 
> I like your alg for RB-LB. Setups to FU are definitely a good next step from M2 to comms.
> 
> I don't do anything special for these targets, just vanilla M2, but sometimes I will do a wide setup to something nicer. RB-LB can be setup by Uw to FR-BR which is faster with a nice cancellation too.



Thanks Mark. I'm happy you've discovered the power of Uw/Uw' setup. It solves many cases which in M2 are uncomfortable. For example DF-UF-RF you can do with advM2 setup U' but it needs regrip, but when you do Uw' you got one of the best M2 cases. And your setup for RB-LB is also nice. I guess the first thing I've realized when I've started 3style is that for cases like BR-UR you dont need setup U' but you can do it straight [R', U' M2 U]. In advM2 you would start with U' setup but in fact you dont need it.


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## newtonbase (Sep 4, 2016)

h2f said:


> Mark, I've checked speffz and OG is DF - RD - LD. Meneghetti does: [Bw: R2, U' M2 U]. I do setup to FU and it's up which target is first. For OG I do R2 U; [M', U L2 U']; for GO inverserly. Both have nice cancelation and are 11movers.


Oh dear. I had corrected an error on the alg but didn't check that. Sorry. 
Your alg is nice and pretty intuitive.


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## mark49152 (Sep 4, 2016)

h2f said:


> I guess the first thing I've realized when I've started 3style is that for cases like BR-UR you dont need setup U' but you can do it straight [R', U' M2 U]. In advM2 you would start with U' setup but in fact you dont need it.


It's a blurred distinction. To me, your alg is advanced M2 with a cancellation. I haven't started 3-style for edges, but I do use advanced M2 and am familiar with all those cancellations, and the fact that setup/cancellations effectively turn your example into a comm with R exchange rather than M exchange. I guess it's just another example of how well advanced M2 sets you up for 3-style. Once I start using FU as a helper too, and consistently applying setups/cancellations, I expect I will probably be doing 80% 3-style without ever looking at an alg sheet .


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## h2f (Sep 4, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> I guess it's just another example of how well advanced M2 sets you up for 3-style.



I agree with you. For BR UR it's an example how I've started to think about it. When I realized that targets like BL-DL became easy. And yeah, distinction are not necessery. Another example - for DB I do 2 comms - setup to UF for outer targets and [M, D2] or setup to LU or RU for inner targets and [M' U M, D2].


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## mark49152 (Sep 4, 2016)

Nice, @h2f


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## MarcelP (Sep 4, 2016)

bubbagrub said:


> Definitely. I've bought many puzzles from him, including a delivery that just arrived today:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Awesome! I just got that 2x2 megaminx too. I do not know how to solve it though. But it turns really well


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## MarcelP (Sep 4, 2016)

I just did a sighted BLD solve yesterday. I used OP\OP. I am still amazed how you guys can do it 1) fast 2) with multiple cubes 3) with other methods. 4) without sight. My hat off to you black belt BLD-ers


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## mark49152 (Sep 4, 2016)

MarcelP said:


> I just did a sighted BLD solve yesterday. I used OP\OP. I am still amazed how you guys can do it 1) fast 2) with multiple cubes 3) with other methods. 4) without sight. My hat off to you black belt BLD-ers


It's fun and very satisfying - join us


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## Selkie (Sep 4, 2016)

@bubbagrub I do like the look of the Lovebird puzzle Ben. Think I will have too add that to my wants list

@h2f Ah Grzegorz Those DNFs have to be so frustrating. Nice BLD times and so close to podium too.

@Lid Great megaminx times there sir. When you said you were trying for a sub 1:50 Ao12, I didnt expect a nearly sub 1:40 Ao5!

@One Wheel Great to hear you have attended your firs comp. Good times considering your aims but it isnt all about the times. Mixing with other cubers is great for motivation and learning new stuff 

-----------

Was trying to get a sub 2 minute Megaminx average on film and kept failing then out of nowhere a sub 1:55 average with a 1:48 single but going to have to get self critical at this point. Thought I would break down the 1:48 as I knew the LL was pitiful:-

Star: 8.75s
F2L (5 Slots): 34.42s
Last 2 Faces Left: 1:13.00
All but LL: 1:27.05
LL: 1:48.00

Thats 21 second last layer with 11 seconds of that just being CP. Think its time I started learning more LL algs!

Here is the average:

MEGAMINX - 1:53.89 Average of 5 Solves
1:55.00, 1:56.35, 1:50.33, (2:25.61), (1:48.00)


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## bubbagrub (Sep 4, 2016)

Selkie said:


> @bubbagrub I do like the look of the Lovebird puzzle Ben. Think I will have too add that to my wants list
> 
> 
> > Yep -- it's really beautiful to look at. Fun to solve too (although, like the Tuttminx, I still can't figure out how to do the last layer...), although I discovered that it's quite easy to inadvertently turn one of the hexagonal faces by 60 degrees instead of 120, and then the whole puzzle becomes unsolvable. And I don't just mean logically unsolvable; I mean the faces around the wrong pieces lock up and become immovable. It took me about an hour to fix that, once I realised what I'd done...
> ...


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## newtonbase (Sep 4, 2016)

bubbagrub said:


> ..so I end up just doing sunes randomly, hoping it will get solved...


That's my preferred method for edges too. Corners get solved one at a time, same as the Kilominx.


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## Jason Green (Sep 4, 2016)

I'm at a friend's house and they had a cube that was unsolvable due to the color scheme being wrong. Opposites were next to each other. So I thought ok I'll just solve it with the centers where they are at, can't be any worse than trying a Roux solve.  But no luck on that either, because there are things like two green and blue edges. It's strange because I can see some of the stickers were tampered with, but not enough to get it in a solvable position (even with the wrong scheme). Not sure what happened with this, but I'm determined to fix it now.  May order a new set of stickers, don't know how this will turn out. 







I was googling it and saw about the Japanese color scheme, don't think I ever heard of that. 

https://ruwix.com/the-rubiks-cube/japanese-western-color-schemes/


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## mark49152 (Sep 4, 2016)

@Jason Green, I always hear the sticker peeling joke, and I can imagine that a few frustrated non-cubers might even resort to that, but what I can't fathom is why they would put back the stickers in a non-solved state...?


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## Chree (Sep 4, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> @Jason Green, I always hear the sticker peeling joke, and I can imagine that a few frustrated non-cubers might even resort to that, but what I can't fathom is why they would put back the stickers in a non-solved state...?



When I was a kid, honest to god, I once tried to solve it by taking the stickers off (just once). So whenever I hear that joke ("I used to take the stickers off!"), my pat reply is now: "So did I!"


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## SenorJuan (Sep 4, 2016)

I've just bought a Rubik's brand 3x3x3 cube today. I'm rather pleased with it.
*"Are you feeling OK, Juan?"* I hear you ask as you shake your head... well it's actually one of these bad boys:
https://www.vat19.com/item/rubiks-cube-light
If Mark A. and Selkie can have Rubik's Cube mugs, then I'm happy to be the proud owner of a just-about fully functional giant light up transparent cube.
And best of all, it cost me just 50 Pence ( = 65 US cents), a Car Boot Sale bargain. It's in perfect condition, it needs a charger, but that's not a problem for me to sort out. It has some interesting design features, I'll post up a 'tear-down' later. It seems to have a lot of junk inside it, not just battery/switch/LED's.
It could benefit from some proper tensioning and lube (it's stiff and scratchy), and even with my big hands, I'm not going to OH it.

*Jason*: Japanese cubes just seem all wrong, blue and green next to each other? 
I remember a girl in my class at school had a cheapo knock-off cube with two green faces, it wasn't quite as easy to solve as you'd think (generally confusing, plus a 'parity problem' due to the double-green edge).


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## JohnnyReggae (Sep 5, 2016)

After playing with my Gigaminx for the last few days I've started up with Megaminx again and my current YJ YuHu is actually not that great. It catches a lot and is quite frustrating to try speed solve. I know there have been a bunch of new Megaminxes released lately. Anyone have any recommendations ?

btw ... the Gigaminx is *awesome* ... currently my favourite puzzle to solve. Not that it's difficult, but out of all my current puzzles is takes the longest time to solve. Decided to time a solve the other day and was so shocked to eventually end on 51 minutes. It honestly felt no longer than 30. I want a Teraminx now


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## Selkie (Sep 5, 2016)

@Jason Green , @mark49152 - I agree, do not see why someone would want to peel stickers and still not solve it.

@SenorJuan - What a great car boot purchase, bargain sir. I have bought quite a few Rubik's brand things. Most recently a few T-Shirts from their Spread Shirt store

@JohnnyReggae - I know a couple of regulars on this thread have been a bit disappointed with it but the X-Man Galaxy Megaminx has been well accepted by the community. It is available in 4 types and I would personally recommend the 'sculptured' to give some additional grip. It is the main Megaminx use by both Lid and myself now together with some other solvers. I believe mafergut prefers the Shangshou Aurora and going a bit older the Dayan is not a bad buy and used by the current WR holder. Personally though I find The X-Man so much better.


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## JohnnyReggae (Sep 5, 2016)

Selkie said:


> @JohnnyReggae - I know a couple of regulars on this thread have been a bit disappointed with it but the X-Man Galaxy Megaminx has been well accepted by the community. It is available in 4 types and I would personally recommend the 'sculptured' to give some additional grip. It is the main Megaminx use by both Lid and myself now together with some other solvers. I believe mafergut prefers the Shangshou Aurora and going a bit older the Dayan is not a bad buy and used by the current WR holder. Personally though I find The X-Man so much better.


Is the sculpted version only available in stickerless ? Can't seem to find any others ... None of my puzzles are stickerless except for a pink Guanlong which I turned into a Phantom cube.


----------



## h2f (Sep 5, 2016)

Selkie said:


> a bit older the Dayan is not a bad buy and used by the current WR holder. Personally though I find The X-Man so much better.



His Dayan is moded and I dont think it's comparable to the Dayan out of stock. I'm also a big fun of Xman Galaxy.


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## muchacho (Sep 5, 2016)

I wish that one would be available in black, I would buy it (and then also in stickerless).


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## mafergut (Sep 5, 2016)

@JohnnyReggae Yep, I'm the one that prefers the Shengshou Aurora Megaminx to the XMD Galaxy. It's got little ridges in the corners for better grip; you can have it in black with stickers, same nice shades that you got on your Gigaminx and it's smooth and corner cuts very well. If it's not on par with the Galaxy it's not that far off and, for me, the smooth turning is a plus that compensates for maybe the added stability of the Galaxy.

Definitely an improvement over the old SS Megaminx and arguably one of the two best Megas out of the box.

I would say don't get a Dayan unless you want to gamble getting a deffective core, like myself and many other people lately and you want to put a lot of effort in breaking it in and setting it up.

Also as a plus, the SS Aurora is the cheapest of the three.

Nice "Stickermod" with the Guanlong, by the way


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## Chree (Sep 5, 2016)

@JohnnyReggae I'm another SS Aurora guy. I own both the Sculted and Normal Stickered X-Man Galaxy. They both have great feels and I like them a lot. But I find the Aurora more controllable, plus I'm already hella used to the sticker shades. And to echo @mafergut, it's the lowest in terms of price, and I would argue, therefore, the greatest in terms of value. But it's gonna come down to your own personal preference.


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## newtonbase (Sep 5, 2016)

My clock arrived. It's still in bubble wrap but I can see it's scrambled. I don't belive that I've ever even touched a clock before but I've looked up a method so I plan to time from unwrapping to solved. I may record it.


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## SenorJuan (Sep 5, 2016)

"I've looked up a method"
Maybe I'm the only one saying *No.o.o.o.o!* you big cheat. A golden opportunity to work out how to solve it (it's not that hard), and you just looked on t'net straight away.
With all the advanced knowledge the web has given you, we're now expecting sub-10 sec solves pretty soon, you know.


----------



## muchacho (Sep 5, 2016)

I've only gotten a 50 seconds PB using the online clock simulator, even with all the advance knowledge, should I quit just now?


----------



## h2f (Sep 5, 2016)

My ao5 7.34 in 2x2 from GLS CUP IV.


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## newtonbase (Sep 5, 2016)

That was a bloody nightmare. The thing barely moves. My fingers hurt and I've damaged my nails. It took well over 10 minutes. The solve was pretty easy though.


----------



## mark49152 (Sep 5, 2016)

I never thought I'd find myself tempted to buy a clock...


----------



## Jason Green (Sep 5, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> I never thought I'd find myself tempted to buy a clock...


I still don't think I will.


----------



## newtonbase (Sep 5, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> I never thought I'd find myself tempted to buy a clock...


Me neither until you told us about your experience at ABHC!


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## MarcelP (Sep 6, 2016)

h2f said:


> My ao5 7.34 in 2x2 from GLS CUP IV.


Pretty cool! I need a lot of work to become that fast.


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## JohnnyReggae (Sep 6, 2016)

Chree said:


> @JohnnyReggae I'm another SS Aurora guy. I own both the Sculted and Normal Stickered X-Man Galaxy. They both have great feels and I like them a lot. But I find the Aurora more controllable, plus I'm already hella used to the sticker shades. And to echo @mafergut, it's the lowest in terms of price, and I would argue, therefore, the greatest in terms of value. But it's gonna come down to your own personal preference.


Thank for that  I've also watched a couple of comparisons on the 2. Most included the sculpted X-Man which I won't get as I don't do stickerless. I'm probably going to go with the SS Aurora as it is cheaper and will go with my current SS Gigaminx. I'm also waiting for my SS Kilominx to arrive so it makes sense for me to keep it in the family .


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## mafergut (Sep 6, 2016)

JohnnyReggae said:


> Thank for that  I've also watched a couple of comparisons on the 2. Most included the sculpted X-Man which I won't get as I don't do stickerless. I'm probably going to go with the SS Aurora as it is cheaper and will go with my current SS Gigaminx. I'm also waiting for my SS Kilominx to arrive so it makes sense for me to keep it in the family .


Don't forget to get the new Master Kilominx as well


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## JohnnyReggae (Sep 6, 2016)

mafergut said:


> Don't forget to get the new Master Kilominx as well


That is definitely on the radar ... but at $30 it is on the pricey side right now, but I am oh so keen to get it


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## JohnnyReggae (Sep 6, 2016)

Eventually got around to finishing off my 3x3 ball mod. Very happy to have it done seeing as it was the very first mod I started which I then shelved to do some other mods. I'm keen to do a 5x5 ball, but there are a couple other mods I want to attempt first. Up close you can see my dodgy sticker job which is something I'm not a fan of in the whole modding process mostly because it is quite tedious and something that currently is not very precise which means that it doesn't turn out as well as I really want it to.

I have it here next to my 4x4 ball mod which was the first fully completed mod I did.


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## h2f (Sep 6, 2016)




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## mafergut (Sep 6, 2016)

@JohnnyReggae Wow these are beautiful mods! I'm tempted to ask you for a price to buy one!!! You're quite an artist


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## JohnnyReggae (Sep 6, 2016)

mafergut said:


> @JohnnyReggae Wow these are beautiful mods! I'm tempted to ask you for a price to buy one!!! You're quite an artist


Wow !! Thanks  To be honest they are not hard to do, just time consuming.

I do have an extra 5x5 barrel that I've finished up except for stickers. It does need some work in that the internals are quite stiff which I haven't had a chance to look at yet. But seeing as I already have a finished 5x5 barrel I really don't need this one (photo below). It was made from a Cyclone Boys 5x5 which I rate as a budget 5x5. I'm happy to sell it off without stickers .. have I mentioned that I don't enjoy the stickering process ;-) I know Olivers Stickers does do 5x5 barrel stickers which would probably be a better idea than stickering myself except he doesn't have the shades that I use for all my cubes.

http://oliverstickers.com/special-stickers/stickers-for-hand-made-puzzles/5x5x5-barrel-6-color.html


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## mark49152 (Sep 6, 2016)

@h2f: Nice solve, Grzegorz. Looks like you did corners first there. I thought you were an edges first solver. Am I wrong or did you switch? Why?


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## h2f (Sep 6, 2016)

@mark49152, Mark Thank you - I always do corners first, next edges (of course memo inverserly).  Why? Because I've learnt that way from Polish blinders - Maskow, Jałocha, Zalewski, others. I used to it. There's parity in the solve and I do it with special alg - kind of Tperm from Meneghetti's list. But I've havent learnt it for BU so I had to do 2 flips - there were 2 flipped edges in a scramble.


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## Chree (Sep 6, 2016)

JohnnyReggae said:


> Thank for that  I've also watched a couple of comparisons on the 2. Most included the sculpted X-Man which I won't get as I don't do stickerless. I'm probably going to go with the SS Aurora as it is cheaper and will go with my current SS Gigaminx. I'm also waiting for my SS Kilominx to arrive so it makes sense for me to keep it in the family .



If you ever do decide to pick up the X-Man, and if you go with a stickered version... grab yourself some extra stickers while you're at it. The face that's usually Cream is instead Gold, and I frequently confuse it for Yellow or Orange. It's reeeeeaaaally close, and extremely disappointing. The cube feels so good, but I just can't get used to those shades. And I'm just too lazy to resticker a Megaminx when my SS is perfectly fine.

The shades on the stickerless versions, on the other hand, are actually really nice. Way better than the YJ Yuhu stickerless shades. If you ever decided to do stickerless, this would be a great place to start.



mafergut said:


> Don't forget to get the new *Master Kilominx* as well



So good. So, so fun. I found time for an Ao5 on Friday. If I had time for 8 solves I woulda tried rolling that worst one out:

7:51.26, 7:05.06, (7:58.28), 6:59.77, (6:56.70) = *7:18.70*


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## mark49152 (Sep 6, 2016)

h2f said:


> I always do corners first, next edges (of course memo inverserly).  Why? Because I've learnt that way from Polish blinders - Maskow, Jałocha, Zalewski, others. I used to it. There's parity in the solve and I do it with special alg - kind of Tperm from Meneghetti's list.


I've seen many fast solvers do corners first and I wonder why. Is it generally regarded as faster? Presumably you do an extra comm at the end of corners, then a set up and T perm at the end. As opposed to an extra M2 swap and a Y perm. Not sure which would be fastest for me.


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## h2f (Sep 6, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> I've seen many fast solvers do corners first and I wonder why. Is it generally regarded as faster? Presumably you do an extra comm at the end of corners, then a set up and T perm at the end. As opposed to an extra M2 swap and a Y perm. Not sure which would be fastest for me.



Let's count: extra alg for last target and UBR is 8 moves. In the end I do kind of Tperm without setup, or Ja or Jb. It's 14 moves. It gives 22 moves. Yperm is 15 moves + setup (2-4 moves) + M2 swap 5 moves. It gives 25 moves. It's a little bit more or the same. Of course with OP the number of moves is higher - one more Yperm with setup and parity done in the end cost you 37 and more moves. 

But the main reason I do corners first is that I've learnt that way first. The first tutorial I've seen was Maskow's and he did that way - corners first, next edges. And I stayed with that.

I was thinking a lot about doing edges first and I came to conculsion that I stay with my way. Move count is the same but you have more info in long memory. For corner often I dont try remeber first letter pair - just alg. But maybe in a long run it doesnt matter - the same as position of your buffer.


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## mark49152 (Sep 6, 2016)

@h2f, yes there's probably not much in it. Maybe corners first helps with bigger cubes though.

I did another multi attempt today and made the same mistake yet again. Executed edges as corners. I think it's since I started learning corner comms. I now associate each image clearly with a corner pattern and a comm. Sometimes when I recall the image during edges, I see it as corners and execute that instead. I guess it's a lapse of concentration but I have no idea how to fix this...


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## h2f (Sep 6, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> @h2f, yes there's probably not much in it. Maybe corners first helps with bigger cubes though.
> 
> I did another multi attempt today and made the same mistake yet again. Executed edges as corners. I think it's since I started learning corner comms. I now associate each image clearly with a corner pattern and a comm. Sometimes when I recall the image during edges, I see it as corners and execute that instead. I guess it's a lapse of concentration but I have no idea how to fix this...



That's pretty annoying when you dont how to eliminate your mistake. 

I'm also back to mbld but havent done any attempt yet. I was told there's gonna be a round of mbld during competition in Gdańsk in December. Must work on it.


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## One Wheel (Sep 6, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> @h2f
> I did another multi attempt today and made the same mistake yet again. Executed edges as corners. I think it's since I started learning corner comms. I now associate each image clearly with a corner pattern and a comm. Sometimes when I recall the image during edges, I see it as corners and execute that instead. I guess it's a lapse of concentration but I have no idea how to fix this...



I'm the rankest of amateurs at blind, but it sounds like this calls for a slightly different approach. Any chance it might help to, for example, think of corners on the left and edges on the right? Indoor/outdoor? It would depend on what your images/words are.

Edit: in the spirit of crazy ideas, it would slow down execution, but might it help accuracy to execute either all edges or all corners on all cubes, then go back and do the other. I'm still working on one cube, so on the one hand I'm not really qualified, but on the other hand maybe a fresh mind and all . . .


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## mark49152 (Sep 6, 2016)

One Wheel said:


> I'm the rankest of amateurs at blind, but it sounds like this calls for a slightly different approach. Any chance it might help to, for example, think of corners on the left and edges on the right? Indoor/outdoor? It would depend on what your images/words are.


Yeah I was thinking maybe I should have a different set of images for edges, but that's a lot of images, and I might just make mistakes with that instead. I don't really want to change my locations. Maybe practice will be enough, to get used to solving edges from visual memory. I might do more frequent multi attempts with small numbers of cubes just to get more used to it.


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## newtonbase (Sep 6, 2016)

Might colours help? I sometimes add colours to remember the order of my images.


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## One Wheel (Sep 6, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> Yeah I was thinking maybe I should have a different set of images for edges, but that's a lot of images, and I might just make mistakes with that instead. I don't really want to change my locations. Maybe practice will be enough, to get used to solving edges from visual memory. I might do more frequent multi attempts with small numbers of cubes just to get more used to it.



I'm not sure how you're using locations, but I was thinking more tactilly, associating edges with your left hand or foot and corners with your right hand or foot.


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## mark49152 (Sep 6, 2016)

One Wheel said:


> I'm not sure how you're using locations, but I was thinking more tactilly, associating edges with your left hand or foot and corners with your right hand or foot.


Not sure what you mean, but I guess during execution I could do something like angle to the left when solving edges, and to the right when solving corners. I'm just frustrated because it seems a silly problem to have, and I'm inclined to just practise until it (hopefully) goes away.


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## One Wheel (Sep 6, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> Not sure what you mean, but I guess during execution I could do something like angle to the left when solving edges, and to the right when solving corners. I'm just frustrated because it seems a silly problem to have, and I'm inclined to just practise until it (hopefully) goes away.



Something like that. Or just mentally do that, without necessarily physically moving.


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## SenorJuan (Sep 7, 2016)

I've just decided I'd post a few thoughts on the puzzles I recently purchased (from Marty Wolfman's shop).
LanLan Domino: works as it should, I can't really fault it, but it would be nice if it had better corner-cutting. I guess that's a consequence of modern cubes being so good in that respect, we want every puzzle to be like it.

Yuxin Mirror-blocks, black with 'brushed' gold stickers: Low cost, but looks classy. It's lubed, so turns very easily....but that seemed to be my initial problem. I just couldn't hold it without 7 out of the 6 faces turning randomly. Yet to _intentionally_ turn it, you need to align the faces quite accurately. Hopefully the lube will wear off and some useful stiction will occur.
Other than that, (which is quite frustrating) it's fun to solve. Definitely a recommendation. My first ~30 solves saw my solve times drop from 9 minutes to 1m57s Yay! And for those who want more from their puzzles, it is actually a supercube, due to the 'grain' in the metallic stickers, which is clearly visible when a centre is 90 degrees to all the other cubies. It comes with a 'corner-supporting' display stand, as it clearly can't be laid down on a flat surface.....

Calvin's Eitan Twist: Hmm....horrible out the box. Very loose, and lubed, so too easy to turn. But it has zero corner-cutting, and the 'centre-pieces' can move around a lot, so it catches terribly. I tightened it up a bit and it's better. But the movement of the centres looks like a design error. It's a feature I know about, as years ago all cubes had this problem, and I remember my first cube that addressed it ( I even modded another cube to make it that way). The key is to use a large headed fixing screw, that sits inside a round recess in the centre-piece plastic, with little clearance. This Calvin's Twist has screws that are far too small for the recess, so the centre pieces can wobble about. 
One feature of it is quite odd, though. Common sense says the two flat faces (red and orange) will be perfect 'Rubiks Cube' shape, and will line up perfectly with the opposite flat face. Wrong on both counts! though I can't see why.... The four 'cuts' that divide the flat faces are slightly skewed, resulting in odd shaped pieces, with odd-shaped stickers. And when you turn a face 90 degrees, it's quite obvious, the mis-matches show up.
And very peculiar is the fact the two flat faces are about 85 degrees apart. Put it down on it's side, it rocks like a wobbly table.
Internally it is modern, and doesn't want to pop at all, so that's a good thing.
As a puzzle, it's OK, there's four middle-layer centres that need aligning, so super-cube care is needed. And as the centre-layer edges can be rotated without any signs, there's a 50% chance of edge OLL parity on your last layer. I tried the obvious (to me): (F M')4 U (F M')4 U' to flip a pair of edges, to be met with misaligned super-centres. Gah, wasn't expecting that. Still, there's other easy ways of sorting the parity problem. It looks pretty when solved.


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## Lid (Sep 7, 2016)

*@Selkie* , you wanted a sub1:30 in IRC earlier ... here you go: *1:29.12* 
Easy LL, L U F' U' L' U L F L' + R2' U2' R2 U' R2' U2' R2.


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## Logiqx (Sep 7, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> @h2f, yes there's probably not much in it. Maybe corners first helps with bigger cubes though.
> 
> I did another multi attempt today and made the same mistake yet again. Executed edges as corners. I think it's since I started learning corner comms. I now associate each image clearly with a corner pattern and a comm. Sometimes when I recall the image during edges, I see it as corners and execute that instead. I guess it's a lapse of concentration but I have no idea how to fix this...


I seem to remember that Maskow uses different images for corners and edges. Perhaps it is for this very reason. Have you seen his image video?

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk


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## mark49152 (Sep 7, 2016)

Logiqx said:


> I seem to remember that Maskow uses different images for corners and edges. Perhaps it is for this very reason. Have you seen his image video?


I have although I don't remember if he has separate images. It makes sense but is a lot to learn and I can imagine I would mix those up from time to time too.


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## Logiqx (Sep 7, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> I have although I don't remember if he has separate images. It makes sense but is a lot to learn and I can imagine I would mix those up from time to time too.


The other thing is he didn't use basic letter pairs. He had unique letters, digits and symbols for each sticker. Lots to learn but completely unique. Interesting but not particularly useful to anyone well practiced in letters!

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk


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## mark49152 (Sep 7, 2016)

Logiqx said:


> The other thing is he didn't use basic letter pairs. He had unique letters, digits and symbols for each sticker. Lots to learn but completely unique. Interesting but not particularly useful to anyone well practiced in letters!


At the time I looked at it, I concluded that it reduced to the same thing. One image element per pair of targets, with elements combined to a compound scene.

If he uses different letters, numbers or symbols for each piece type I can see how that would help with my problem, but I'm not really keen on extending to numbers and symbols as it would be harder to develop images for them. Plus, I'm not sure it would really help any more than just having a different image, since in the end the letters/coding is secondary anyway.

Funny how I don't make the same mistakes in 4BLD or 5BLD, where in the latter case I use the same images for five piece types.


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## bubbagrub (Sep 7, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> @h2f, yes there's probably not much in it. Maybe corners first helps with bigger cubes though.
> 
> I did another multi attempt today and made the same mistake yet again. Executed edges as corners. I think it's since I started learning corner comms. I now associate each image clearly with a corner pattern and a comm. Sometimes when I recall the image during edges, I see it as corners and execute that instead. I guess it's a lapse of concentration but I have no idea how to fix this...



I had exactly the same problem for a while with MBLD, but I fixed it by making a conscious decision to pause before each new room and confirm to myself whether it was corners or edges. It adds a couple of seconds per cube, but it stopped me doing the wrong execution.


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## mark49152 (Sep 7, 2016)

bubbagrub said:


> I had exactly the same problem for a while with MBLD, but I fixed it by making a conscious decision to pause before each new room and confirm to myself whether it was corners or edges. It adds a couple of seconds per cube, but it stopped me doing the wrong execution.


Hey it's great to hear I'm not the only one! I will try that and see how it goes. Thanks Ben.


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## JanW (Sep 7, 2016)

I've been quiet lately, life is interfering with cubing again. But I'm trying to keep it up, do maybe 10-20 solves/day and also try to get in one or two blind solves every day, so that I don't forget about everything. I should have more time on my hands again next month for some more serious practice. There's a comp I should be able to go to end of November. I might go there for some first official results. Not sure yet.

I'm quite happy with regular 3x3 right now. I'm not seeing any exceptional times, but the average is very steady at around 26-28 seconds whenever I do an Ao12. My latest Ao12 was possibly my most even ever:

Ao12: 25.65 (cube: Weilong GTS)
25.59, 24.90, 25.77, 25.49, 26.86, (28.84), 26.52, 24.31, 24.81, 26.93, 25.39, (24.03)

Currently doing CFOP with mostly 2-look OLL. I haven't counted, but know about 10-12 OLL algs (apart from those with edges oriented). I'll try to increase that next month.


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## JohnnyReggae (Sep 7, 2016)

Finally some new PB's for 5x5  It's been a little while since I've broken all my PB's with 5x5 so quite chuffed 
Single PB broken 3 times in this session, although the last one was by 1 hundredth of a second 

ao12 : 2:50.70, 2:57.36, 3:13.30, (3:15.23), 2:51.59, 2:53.71, 3:00.37, 3:12.79, 2:41.86, 2:34.53, 3:08.49, (2:34.52) = 2:56.47

ao5 : (3:12.79), 2:41.86, 2:34.53, 3:08.49, (2:34.52) = 2:48.29

mo3 : 2:34.53, 3:08.49, 2:34.52 = 2:45.85

single: 2:34.52


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## h2f (Sep 7, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> At the time I looked at it, I concluded that it reduced to the same thing. One image element per pair of targets, with elements combined to a compound scene.



I agree with you. As I was talking with Maskow - he never used letter pairs but images. When he switched comms he connected images with algs. In 3bld he had strange marks for corners (e.g. +, -, etc) but in mbld he changed it to images as well. I think when you use letter pairs it leads to the same pattern. Letter pair = image = alg.


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## newtonbase (Sep 7, 2016)

Fixed my clock. I took it to pieces and used emery boards to smooth it all out and reassembled it. That did nothing so I took it apart and wiped down every surface that moves against another with shock oil and reassembled it. Then I took it apart and reassembled it the right way up. It now moves pretty freely other than an occasional lockup. I'm hoping that my 2nd timed solve beats my sup 12 min PB.


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## Shaky Hands (Sep 7, 2016)

@newtonbase... plenty of advice on Google... https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=how+to+lube+a+rubik+clock.


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## newtonbase (Sep 7, 2016)

Shaky Hands said:


> @newtonbase... plenty of advice on Google... https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=how+to+lube+a+rubik+clock.


Thanks. I had thought it was damaged as it locked up so much but couldn't find any videos that helped so tried the lube. Unfortunately I don't have the spray that most people seem to use so dug out the shock oil. I thought Maru would be too short term a solution.
My PB is now 2:05! That's at least 10 minutes improvement.


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## chtiger (Sep 7, 2016)

First PB at anything in months. Clock sub-9 ao5. Previous best was 9.44. Some easy scrambles certainly helped.
Average of 5: 8.98
1. 8.93 UR4+ DR4+ DL1- UL3- U5+ R5+ D3- L1- ALL0+ y2 U3- R4- D5+ L6+ ALL3- DR DL UL
2. 9.02 UR2- DR1- DL1- UL3+ U2- R1+ D1+ L2- ALL1- y2 U1+ R5+ D4+ L4+ ALL4+ UR DR
3. (8.40) UR5- DR3+ DL0+ UL1- U5+ R2+ D3- L4+ ALL6+ y2 U1- R6+ D3- L1- ALL2+ UR DR DL UL
4. (10.24) UR4+ DR1+ DL2+ UL5- U4+ R5+ D1- L1- ALL0+ y2 U3+ R4+ D4- L5+ ALL0+ UR UL
5. 8.99 UR2+ DR6+ DL2- UL5+ U5- R5+ D4- L4- ALL6+ y2 U3+ R2+ D0+ L1+ ALL2- DR DL UL 

@newtonbase, lubing the clock helps tremendously. I'm not familiar with all the different lube types to know what's what. I use Traxxas differential lube 50k wt, which coincidentally is what was used in this video I watched for how to do it.


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## newtonbase (Sep 7, 2016)

chtiger said:


> First PB at anything in months. Clock sub-9 ao5. Previous best was 9.44. Some easy scrambles certainly helped.
> Average of 5: 8.98
> 1. 8.93 UR4+ DR4+ DL1- UL3- U5+ R5+ D3- L1- ALL0+ y2 U3- R4- D5+ L6+ ALL3- DR DL UL
> 2. 9.02 UR2- DR1- DL1- UL3+ U2- R1+ D1+ L2- ALL1- y2 U1+ R5+ D4+ L4+ ALL4+ UR DR
> ...


So that's what a scramble looks like. 

The lube has worked well but the locking might be a problem. Do you know how I might reduce that?


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## Shaky Hands (Sep 7, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> So that's what a scramble looks like.



There's actually 2 forms of Clock notation. The notation used in this week's Weekly Competition is:

1. UUdd u=-5,d=-2 / dUdU u=6,d=0 / ddUU u=-2,d=-4 / UdUd u=2,d=-2 / dUUU u=1 / UdUU u=-4 / UUUd u=-5 / UUdU u=-5 / UUUU u=4 / dddd d=1 / UddU
2. UUdd u=-4,d=1 / dUdU u=6,d=-3 / ddUU u=-4,d=6 / UdUd u=-5,d=-3 / dUUU u=6 / UdUU u=3 / UUUd u=-5 / UUdU u=3 / UUUU u=4 / dddd d=1 / ddUU
3. UUdd u=5,d=5 / dUdU u=-2,d=-5 / ddUU u=-3,d=-2 / UdUd u=6,d=-2 / dUUU u=-4 / UdUU u=-4 / UUUd u=3 / UUdU u=-5 / UUUU u=6 / dddd d=-3 / dUdd
4. UUdd u=-4,d=-4 / dUdU u=2,d=4 / ddUU u=2,d=0 / UdUd u=-5,d=5 / dUUU u=4 / UdUU u=4 / UUUd u=3 / UUdU u=5 / UUUU u=-4 / dddd d=0 / UddU
5. UUdd u=5,d=-5 / dUdU u=5,d=-4 / ddUU u=-3,d=-1 / UdUd u=6,d=2 / dUUU u=0 / UdUU u=1 / UUUd u=3 / UUdU u=-3 / UUUU u=-3 / dddd d=-5 / UUUd

I'm happy using either but having a basic understanding of how one or the other works helps to give a reasonable hand-scramble in the first place.


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## chtiger (Sep 7, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> So that's what a scramble looks like.
> 
> The lube has worked well but the locking might be a problem. Do you know how I might reduce that?



Not sure. Did you lube the pins? If not, that might fix it. The only lockups I get now are if I leave a face in between two proper positions. Then the pins won't move. That could be a problem with too much lube which could make it not 'clicky' enough.


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## newtonbase (Sep 7, 2016)

Shaky Hands said:


> There's actually 2 forms of Clock notation. The notation used in this week's Weekly Competition is:
> 
> 1. UUdd u=-5,d=-2 / dUdU u=6,d=0 / ddUU u=-2,d=-4 / UdUd u=2,d=-2 / dUUU u=1 / UdUU u=-4 / UUUd u=-5 / UUdU u=-5 / UUUU u=4 / dddd d=1 / UddU
> 2. UUdd u=-4,d=1 / dUdU u=6,d=-3 / ddUU u=-4,d=6 / UdUd u=-5,d=-3 / dUUU u=6 / UdUU u=3 / UUUd u=-5 / UUdU u=3 / UUUU u=4 / dddd d=1 / ddUU
> ...



That's a little trickier to understand. 



chtiger said:


> Not sure. Did you lube the pins? If not, that might fix it. The only lockups I get now are if I leave a face in between two proper positions. Then the pins won't move. That could be a problem with too much lube which could make it not 'clicky' enough.


That is the sort of locks I am getting. I didn't think I went crazy with the lube but I have nothing to judge it by. I'm just happy that it actually moves now.


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## SenorJuan (Sep 7, 2016)

I decided I'd got the hang of my 3x3 mirrorblocks enough to have a first try at solving it unsighted. It was not bad at all. I was pleased to not monumentally mess it up, I did get the layers significantly misaligned at several stages. But it all came together, with a resulting 9m30s solve. There's something quite odd about solving a cube without looking at it.
There's been a couple of threads on here about solving for the visually impaired, and mirrorblocks of various kinds have been mentioned, and rightly so.


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## newtonbase (Sep 8, 2016)

SenorJuan said:


> I decided I'd got the hang of my 3x3 mirrorblocks enough to have a first try at solving it unsighted. It was not bad at all. I was pleased to not monumentally mess it up, I did get the layers significantly misaligned at several stages. But it all came together, with a resulting 9m30s solve. There's something quite odd about solving a cube without looking at it.
> There's been a couple of threads on here about solving for the visually impaired, and mirrorblocks of various kinds have been mentioned, and rightly so.


It would be good to have an event that the visually impaired could do on a level playing field that's also fun for everyone. 

I'll try to time a solve soon. I did own the gold one and I know what you mean about the grain on the stickers. I took mine on holiday as I thought it would be good on the plane in the dark but it fell to pieces. I still have the bits in one of those plastic resealable bags they make you put your toothpaste in. It's very well travelled.


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## SenorJuan (Sep 8, 2016)

For what it's worth, I decided (during sighted solves) to start on the 'thickest' face, finishing on the 'thinnest'. I did the cross on the first layer, then used that as a visual guide to get any 3 of the first layer corners in place. Then I keyholed any 3 edges in the middle layer. Finish off the last edge/corner with a non-matched CFOP F2L insert. Last layer... well, simple is best, whatever works.
And this is how I did my unsighted solve. The cross was the hard bit. I've since managed a 12m, DNF, 8m50s, 8m25s, 7m50s.


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## teacher77 (Sep 8, 2016)

Well. I had the great idea of stricking one of my fingers with a hammer. No cubing for a few days...

Sad though because I had a new Av10 pb just before that.


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## joshsailscga (Sep 8, 2016)

Try solving the cross on the thin face, may not help much but I've always found it to be easier that way. For LL, 2-look OLL and PLL should be possible if you take your time and figure out what the case is. Unsighted mirrorblocks is a lot of fun, good luck with it!


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## newtonbase (Sep 8, 2016)

I have always started with the thickest face but it does make sense that the last layer would be easier if that were the thickest, especially unsighted. I'll have to try timing myself to see where I stand against @SenorJuan. 

Get well soon @teacher77 in the meantime maybe try a bit of OH? I'm guessing it would be the wrong hand but it can help you understand the algs more.


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## muchacho (Sep 8, 2016)

I'm not sure if there is a wrong hand for OH (I use my right, and for algs I have the cube rotated 90 degrees), at least for just trying OH for a few days both should work.


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## SenorJuan (Sep 8, 2016)

My logic for starting MirrorBlocks on the thick face was that it gave you more cube to hold, which I thought might be useful - I found holding it troublesome. But I also noted that when the last layer is the thin one, misoriented pieces seem to stick out more, edges especially. Like tombstones.
 Irrelevant sidetrack alert: In the electronics industry, all modern stuff uses surface mount components, with parts sitting flat on the PCB board, held in place by the solder joints on their 'legs'. During the soldering process, it's possible for surface tension in the molten solder to pull a component out of line. In some cases, resistors and capacitors in particular, can stand up. This is given the amusing name of "Tombstoning". Here's an example:
http://static1.squarespace.com/stat...ce4b0d9be39c0c967/1434585551368/tombstone.jpg

I'll have a try with thinnest layer first, thanks for the advice, Josh.


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## Selkie (Sep 8, 2016)

So much to catch up on! ...

@JohnnyReggae - Glad you got the advice that was needed and have taken the megaminx plunge  Also great looking puzzle mods there. Done a few stock improvement mods over the years but nothing on this scale. they look great.

@h2f - Really nice 2x2. I am way way off the pace and should spand some time with it

@SenorJuan - Great to see the reviews of the puzzles purchased from Marty Wolfman's shop. I have a parcel with 4 puzzles waiting at the post office but got there just too late to collect at lunchtime. I will try and do an unboxing video tomorrow. The parcel inclludes the eagerly awaiting Valk 3x3 too 

@Lid - Damn, very nice sir. Got a few 1:41.xy singles so trying to push for a sub 1:40 single but very hit and miss with my LL

@chtiger - Nice linked video. I am using a clock I was bought as a Christmas present in the 80s and always been very reluctant to break it to lube but this looks very tempting


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## mafergut (Sep 8, 2016)

I finally got my Gans 356 Air. But as you guys have already done unboxing and review videos on it I just decided to open it and do some solves. It reminds me why I didn't want to buy any more gans 3x3s after I hated so much the 357. Of course it's much better than the 357 and I really like how it feels and turns, so smooth, so quiet, so light but not airy just solid and light. But it snaps too forcefully when corner cutting and that disturbs my turning, causing lockups. I will have to try with the yellow springs, which should improve the situation but I just cannot get good times with it.

After playing with it for a while I got my old Sulong out and I could get consistent mid-high 18s averages. With the Air, except for one lucky mid 17 Ao5, I'm around 20s or over all the time. Maybe the colours put my recog off a bit but that's no excuse.

I hope I will like The Valk 3 better, but I have heard also that it tends to snap with some force after cutting so, maybe I will not like it either. Looking into this in retrospect, I could have saved a lot of money had I stayed with my Sulong and Chilong and not bought any more 3x3s ever since.


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## Logiqx (Sep 8, 2016)

It's a while since I've done a cubing video so I decided to do something a little different!

https://www.speedsolving.com/forum/...iks-cube-one-handed-whilst-windsurfing.62331/


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## mark49152 (Sep 9, 2016)

I saw on FB the sad news that François Courtès has died. He was a cubing legend - 184 comps, and one of the fastest oldies out there, especially at blind. I met him once at a comp last year, and he was a nice guy. Enthusiastic to talk about cubing, and interesting to watch and talk to because he did things a bit differently. I judged one of his 4x4 solves and didn't recognise his method, and afterwards he explained the sandwich method to me. I'm sad for his loss and that I won't have the chance to meet him again.


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## Jason Green (Sep 9, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> I saw on FB the sad news that François Courtès has died. He was a cubing legend - 184 comps, and one of the fastest oldies out there, especially at blind. I met him once at a comp last year, and he was a nice guy. Enthusiastic to talk about cubing, and interesting to watch and talk to because he did things a bit differently. I judged one of his 4x4 solves and didn't recognise his method, and afterwards he explained the sandwich method to me. I'm sad for his loss and that I won't have the chance to meet him again.


That's sad to hear.


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## h2f (Sep 9, 2016)

Selkie said:


> @h2f - Really nice 2x2. I am way way off the pace and should spand some time with it



Chris thank you. I happy i've finnaly broke my previous official PB but I hoped for sub7.


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## muchacho (Sep 9, 2016)

Sad news indeed


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## Logiqx (Sep 9, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> I saw on FB the sad news that François Courtès has died. He was a cubing legend - 184 comps, and one of the fastest oldies out there, especially at blind. I met him once at a comp last year, and he was a nice guy. Enthusiastic to talk about cubing, and interesting to watch and talk to because he did things a bit differently. I judged one of his 4x4 solves and didn't recognise his method, and afterwards he explained the sandwich method to me. I'm sad for his loss and that I won't have the chance to meet him again.


That is sad news indeed. 

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk


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## mafergut (Sep 9, 2016)

@mark49152 Sad indeed. But now you got me interested in knowing more about that sandwich method of his.
@Logiqx Cool video, sir. Now I would be embarrased to try anything on that line because your video would mop the floor with anything I could think of. If I at least could do a handstand on one hand... 

By the way, I changed the springs to the Air for the yellow ones. It's a bit less stable and also it snaps with less force but I'm not sure I like it anyway.


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## mark49152 (Sep 9, 2016)

I think my contribution would be "solving a Rubik's Cube with two hands whilst riding on a sofa".


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## Pandaroc (Sep 9, 2016)

Hey there another Oldie here wanna say Hello. I am 36 and just started recently with cubing. I started because i really enjoy an analog hobby.  so i started with roux because cfop was ..well i just enjoyed roux more. Currently i am still in the beginnet stage averaging 1:00-1:20 with some solves under 1:00. Atm i struggle the most with my blocks taking up most of my time. My goal is to get at least under 30 seconds. But i have so many points to improve so i will get there.


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## mafergut (Sep 9, 2016)

Pandaroc said:


> Hey there another Oldie here wanna say Hello. I am 36 and just started recently with cubing. I started because i really enjoy an analog hobby.  so i started with roux because cfop was ..well i just enjoyed roux more. Currently i am still in the beginnet stage averaging 1:00-1:20 with some solves under 1:00. Atm i struggle the most with my blocks taking up most of my time. My goal is to get at least under 30 seconds. But i have so many points to improve so i will get there.


Welcome to the thread!!! We have some Rouxers here so I'm sure you'll get useful advice and motivation to improve.


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## mickael (Sep 9, 2016)

Dear François... It will be a miss.
I was bad all the day, yesterday so I finished my day blinding and blinding again (yep, DNFing and DNFing to...  )
Am I old enough for this thread? I'm 32 and I come from France!


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## Selkie (Sep 9, 2016)

So sad to hear of the passing of François. Had the pleasure of meeting him some years ago. I would mirror what others have said about being a pioneer of methods and I always remember him having such a unique turning style. Such a great ambassador to both cubing but particularly to cubers of an older generation. Rest in Peace


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## mafergut (Sep 9, 2016)

mickael said:


> Dear François... It will be a miss.
> I was bad all the day, yesterday so I finished my day blinding and blinding again (yep, DNFing and DNFing to...  )
> Am I old enough for this thread? I'm 32 and I come from France!


Sure you are. Welcome to the thread!


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## muchacho (Sep 9, 2016)

@Pandaroc Blocks are difficult, it will be your worst step for a long time unless you work hard on them, I should but I don't, I just do solves hoping that my first block building ability will magically improve.

Welcome both!


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## Selkie (Sep 9, 2016)

Sorry guys did not film an unboxing video this morning, clean forgot with the news etc. Will try and do a review of some of the cubes (Only 4 of them).

Initially the Valk 3 feels flimsy, doesn't cut well and feels like its about to fall apart in my hands but there must be something to it. Not close to PB (12.91) but this is a film PB of 13.36 Ao5.


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## mafergut (Sep 9, 2016)

Selkie said:


> Sorry guys did not film an unboxing video this morning, clean forgot with the news etc. Will try and do a review of some of the cubes (Only 4 of them).
> 
> Initially the Valk 3 feels flimsy, doesn't cut well and feels like its about to fall apart in my hands but there must be something to it. Not close to PB (12.91) but this is a film PB of 13.36 Ao5.



Not bad at all for a cube that "feels flimsy, doesn't cut well and feels like its about to fall apart in my hands". I'm still waiting for mine. Let's hope I like it better than the 356 Air but with what you've just said I'm starting to seriously doubt it  I got the stickerless one as well, so it would mean that my mains are stickerless from 2x2 up to 6x6 (dang 7x7).


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## Selkie (Sep 9, 2016)

mafergut said:


> Not bad at all for a cube that "feels flimsy, doesn't cut well and feels like its about to fall apart in my hands". I'm still waiting for mine. Let's hope I like it better than the 356 Air but with what you've just said I'm starting to seriously doubt it  I got the stickerless one as well, so it would mean that my mains are stickerless from 2x2 up to 6x6 (dang 7x7).



I might be being over critical. I have three Qiyi stickerless cubes in front of me. The Thunderclap v2, X-Man Design Tornado (My Main) and Valk 3 and the other 2 feel heavier, more rigid, the plastic feels thicker, feels better quality.

But there is something about the Valk. I do not get sub 13.50 very often (only 6-7 averages ever) and this average was within 10 minutes of taking it out of the box as well as being my fastest average on film. Tension seems similar to the other cubes but I cannot pop and edge to look at the internals easily. I will do a full review of it over the weekend and try and compare to Thunderclap v2 and X-Man at that time


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## Selkie (Sep 9, 2016)

Valk 3: OK I am going to reserve judgement for a couple of days and a few hundred solves but for now I am going to say it may be flimsier but its a lot lighter. I think every thing I am complaining about it a concession made to make it a FAST cube. This cube is insanely fast. I can U2 with one finger flick if I have to but it remains controllable. Going to be very interesting doing an all out TPS average on this cube. As I said I will try and do a review on film but for now I just can't wait to do more solves on it...


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## JohnnyReggae (Sep 9, 2016)

Selkie said:


> Valk 3: OK I am going to reserve judgement for a couple of days and a few hundred solves but for now I am going to say it may be flimsier but its a lot lighter. I think every thing I am complaining about it a concession made to make it a FAST cube. This cube is insanely fast. I can U2 with one finger flick if I have to but it remains controllable. Going to be very interesting doing an all out TPS average on this cube. As I said I will try and do a review on film but for now I just can't wait to do more solves on it...


I've been toying with the idea of getting the Valk, but some reviews I've watched compare it to a Meiying and TBO I don't like the Meiying at all. I really tried to give it a good go, but it always disappoints. Coupled with that ... I'm waiting for my GAN Air to arrive, and with the GAN v2 being my current main I'm not sure the Valk will be for me ... but I do hear a lot of good things about it.


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## Shaky Hands (Sep 9, 2016)

mickael said:


> Dear François... It will be a miss.
> I was bad all the day, yesterday so I finished my day blinding and blinding again (yep, DNFing and DNFing to...  )
> Am I old enough for this thread? I'm 32 and I come from France!



Yes, all are welcome. Enjoy.


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## Chree (Sep 9, 2016)

@Selkie I was thinking of picking up a Valk3. Even have a $5 gift card lying around here somewhere. Do you also have a WeiLong GTS (my current main) and could you compare it to that?


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## Jason Green (Sep 9, 2016)

Two new guys pop in on the same day, very cool. Welcome guys! @Pandaroc, I started a year in July, I'm always excited when a new oldie starts! It will be very exciting for you to see the fast improvement.


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## Jason Green (Sep 9, 2016)

Chree said:


> @Selkie I was thinking of picking up a Valk3. Even have a $5 gift card lying around here somewhere. Do you also have a WeiLong GTS (my current main) and could you compare it to that?


I tried Kevin Hayes' Valk in Portland, it seemed pretty nice. I am about to order my birthday cubes which will be a GTS though.


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## newtonbase (Sep 9, 2016)

mafergut said:


> If I at least could do a handstand on one hand.


That sounded like a good idea so I've just tried it* but my daughter started screaming in terror so the attempt had to be abandoned. 

* I had to use a doorframe to help me balance. I'm not 20 anymore.


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## mark49152 (Sep 9, 2016)

How about two handed solving while resting elbows on a zimmer frame?


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## newtonbase (Sep 9, 2016)

... and welcome to @Pandaroc and @mickael.


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## Selkie (Sep 9, 2016)

Yes indeed welcome to the thread @Pandaroc and @mickael . Look forward to seeing you guys progress and hope you obtain even half the motivation from fellow oldies as I do.

Edit: 12.94 Ao5, second fastest Ao5 ever again on the Valk 3 but not on film. Instant main cube 

@Chree Sorry I don't have the Welling GTS. Never bought it as it does not come in stickerless

@JohnnyReggae Yes it is sort of similar to the Cong's Design Meiying. Same size, look of the pieces but without the internal roughness of the Meiying


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## Bonebreak (Sep 9, 2016)

Hell everyone, my name is Kevin, and I am a 39 year old speedcuber, and have been cubing for about one year. My current PB is 16.22, but I average closer to 24-25 seconds. I finally learned full PLL, and am starting on full OLL. My current main is the Valk, due to the ease of turning. I have the beginnings of arthritis, which is a real bummer. I look forward to the forum, and was pleased to see an "old man" section!


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## Jason Green (Sep 9, 2016)

Bonebreak said:


> Hell everyone, my name is Kevin, and I am a 39 year old speedcuber, and have been cubing for about one year. My current PB is 16.22, but I average closer to 24-25 seconds. I finally learned full PLL, and am starting on full OLL. My current main is the Valk, due to the ease of turning. I have the beginnings of arthritis, which is a real bummer. I look forward to the forum, and was pleased to see an "old man" section!


Welcome! Wow such an influx of guys coming to the group. Is someone out recruiting!?


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## Bonebreak (Sep 9, 2016)

I was pointed this direction by Selkiecubing on YouTube.


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## Jason Green (Sep 9, 2016)

Bonebreak said:


> I was pointed this direction by Selkiecubing on YouTube.


Cool, I need to start mentioning it on my videos.


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## Selkie (Sep 9, 2016)

Welcome to the thread @Bonebreak . Thanks for replying to my video. As mentioned this is where us old folks hang out and chat and help motivate each other. Good to have you join


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## bubbagrub (Sep 9, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> I saw on FB the sad news that François Courtès has died. He was a cubing legend - 184 comps, and one of the fastest oldies out there, especially at blind. I met him once at a comp last year, and he was a nice guy.



That is very sad news. He was an amazing guy - - a real cubing legend.


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## newtonbase (Sep 9, 2016)

Bonebreak said:


> I was pointed this direction by Selkiecubing on YouTube.


Welcome. Do you compete or are you planning to?


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## mickael (Sep 9, 2016)

Yop guys! Thanks for the welcome ! I average FreeFOPly around 18/20. And my PBS are 11.92 (PLL skip), 12.09 (fullstep), avg5 : 16.36. My LL is really a piece of s#[email protected]%t as I average my F2L sub10. That can be understood when you know that I just started to learn my PLL 3.5 years after my first solve... Took me three days tho, two months ago... Hahaha.

I really don't want to learn OLLs or ZBLL so I'll give a try on full OLS (see you in ten years...). Except 3x3, I'm on, 3BLD and MBLD and a bit of the others.

About the hardware my mains have been : Rubik's brand (2012 version), overmodded Rubik's brand, Zanchi, FangShi ShuangRen, AoLong v2, TangLong for a month, Gan356s v2 and Gan356 Air yellow core. I really like this one. First days I was disgusted to have bought it because of the locks but after 200+ solves it was like BINGO!!! I really don't like the Weilong GTS and I'm waiting for the Valk. As I'm not a big fan of the Thunderclaps, I am not sure if I'll like it. We'll see.

Now that you know my cube life, let's talk O' timers!


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## Bonebreak (Sep 9, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> Welcome. Do you compete or are you planning to?


I would like too. Being from Oklahoma, there's not many local comps, so I'm not sure when/if it will happen.


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## h2f (Sep 9, 2016)

Nice to see new oldies! 

I think Im gonna start to search new main. I gave a serious try for Thunderclap v2 but after a month I gave up and back to thnuderclap v1. And my times are back. I'll stay with new Thunderclap only in 3bld. I think about Valk or Weilong GTS. Any comparison? Marcel?


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## newtonbase (Sep 9, 2016)

mickael said:


> Yop guys! Thanks for the welcome ! I average FreeFOPly around 18/20. And my PBS are 11.92 (PLL skip), 12.09 (fullstep), avg5 : 16.36. My LL is really a piece of s#[email protected]%t as I average my F2L sub10. That can be understood when you know that I just started to learn my PLL 3.5 years after my first solve... Took me three days tho, two months ago... Hahaha.
> 
> I really don't want to learn OLLs or ZBLL so I'll give a try on full OLS (see you in ten years...). Except 3x3, I'm on, 3BLD and MBLD and a bit of the others.
> 
> ...


There is a healthy interest in blind on this thread. What are your times and what methods do you use? 

I bought a skewb and a pyraminx from Marty as birthday gifts for my nephew and ended up with a stickerless Valk too. Beer made me do it.


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## Bonebreak (Sep 9, 2016)

h2f said:


> Nice to see new oldies!
> 
> I think Im gonna start to search new main. I gave a serious try for Thunderclap v2 but after a month I gave up and back to thnuderclap v1. And my times are back. I'll stay with new Thunderclap only in 3bld. I think about Valk or Weilong GTS. Any comparison? Marcel?


I have all three, and like the Valk. The GTS is nice, but likes to lock the middle layer in a sandwich between the outer layers on last layer sometimes, which really killed my times. Didn't happen all the time, but enough to tick me off.


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## newtonbase (Sep 9, 2016)

h2f said:


> Nice to see new oldies!
> 
> I think Im gonna start to search new main. I gave a serious try for Thunderclap v2 but after a month I gave up and back to thnuderclap v1. And my times are back. I'll stay with new Thunderclap only in 3bld. I think about Valk or Weilong GTS. Any comparison? Marcel?


I have tried so many good cubes but I still keep going back to the Thunderclap V1. I do prefer the Weilong GTS but lost a bit of it and haven't got around to getting a replacement.


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## mark49152 (Sep 9, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> I have tried so many good cubes but I still keep going back to the Thunderclap V1.


I like it so much I bought 22 of the things . Seriously. I bought a few for multi, and liked it so much I bought a stack more to tide me over until I'm world class, just in case they stop making them now the v2 is out.


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## Jason Green (Sep 9, 2016)

Bonebreak said:


> I would like too. Being from Oklahoma, there's not many local comps, so I'm not sure when/if it will happen.


My first comp was in OKC in January, and they are having one in Norman in October but it's full. Which part are you from? I'm in Fort Worth.


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## JanW (Sep 9, 2016)

Welcome to all new oldies! 


mickael said:


> I really don't want to learn OLLs


I also learned PLL about 2 months ago and have been looking a bit into OLL lately. My impression is that it is totally worth it. Many of the algs are short, very easy to learn and fast to execute. In fact, with 2-look OLL you would quite often use the first step to set up a case that requires a lot more moves than the OLL would have required with 1 look.

I learned 6 cases today, the I and C shapes, or whatever you would call them. I kind of like all of those algs already. The main issue with OLL will probably be to learn to connect the case with the alg fast enough. There is quite a lot of them and many algs are very similar.

@mark49152 I also considered getting a bunch of Thunderclaps for MBld, but the center caps made me decide not to. I find it so annoying to set up and adjust those things and couldn't stand the thought of having to set up a whole bunch of them.


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## newtonbase (Sep 9, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> I like it so much I bought 22 of the things . Seriously. I bought a few for multi, and liked it so much I bought a stack more to tide me over until I'm world class, just in case they stop making them now the v2 is out.


You'll need at least 42 for MBLD.!


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## h2f (Sep 9, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> I have tried so many good cubes but I still keep going back to the Thunderclap V1. I do prefer the Weilong GTS but lost a bit of it and haven't got around to getting a replacement.





mark49152 said:


> I like it so much I bought 22 of the things . Seriously. I bought a few for multi, and liked it so much I bought a stack more to tide me over until I'm world class, just in case they stop making them now the v2 is out.



Ho! Ho! For me the only problem are stickers - I really like fluo and always replace stickers on new cubes. I've made exception for Th v2 but I'll check if they are not a source of problem. I checked GTS during comp but I need more time to see if it fits my style.


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## mark49152 (Sep 9, 2016)

JanW said:


> @mark49152 I also considered getting a bunch of Thunderclaps for MBld, but the center caps made me decide not to. I find it so annoying to set up and adjust those things and couldn't stand the thought of having to set up a whole bunch of them.


Not heard hat before. I didn't have a problem with them. Caps come off easily with a screwdriver, I tighten them a turn, stick a bit of 10k around the screw and some 50k on the pieces, and Bob's your uncle.



newtonbase said:


> You'll need at least 42 for MBLD.!


If I ever reach the point of doing 22 I will reward myself with 20 of the newest and best cubes around. By that time they will probably be carbon fibre with servo-assisted corner cutting and self-lubricated with nanoparticles.


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## Jason Green (Sep 10, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> I like it so much I bought 22 of the things . Seriously. I bought a few for multi, and liked it so much I bought a stack more to tide me over until I'm world class, just in case they stop making them now the v2 is out.


Everything I heard is the V2 is sucky, so hope they wouldn't stop V1 for that.


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## h2f (Sep 10, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> You'll need at least 42 for MBLD.!


 Ha ha ha, Mark.  

I need something new but better than Thunderclap v2 - with clicky sound and stable, but without rolling pops and blow outs. And I had a feeling weilong GTS has these features.


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## mickael (Sep 10, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> There is a healthy interest in blind on this thread. What are your times and what methods do you use?



I use M2/OP for traditional BLD and MBLD (letter pair for all). I always start my memo with corners in order to take parity in charge while memorising my edges. Never had one since and I don't need to think about it while solving. I'm around 2 minutes.


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## h2f (Sep 10, 2016)

mickael said:


> I use M2/OP for traditional BLD and MBLD (letter pair for all). I always start my memo with corners in order to take parity in charge while memorising my edges. Never had one since and I don't need to think about it while solving. I'm around 2 minutes.



I've started from it. Now 3style. Memo - edges first next corners=letter pairs/audio pairs. Parity with some algs - same move count like yours.

What about big blindes? How many cubes in mbld?


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## MarcelP (Sep 10, 2016)

h2f said:


> I think about Valk or Weilong GTS. Any comparison? Marcel?


Well, my current main is a $7 cube  



 (unboxing). I also have the Valk3. I think Valk3 is probably the best performing cube out there. It has a very smooth feeling, and cuts everything. It is the size that does not fit my hands (for now). So now I stay with the $7 cube LOL. The ShengShou is very forgiving, turns very light and has exact same size as GAN 356. Perfect for me. I see now that all the cubes that come out are more and more becomming equally good. All just a matter of personal preferences.


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## h2f (Sep 10, 2016)

MarcelP said:


> Well, my current main is a $7 cube
> 
> 
> 
> (unboxing). I also have the Valk3. I think Valk3 is probably the best performing cube out there. It has a very smooth feeling, and cuts everything. It is the size that does not fit my hands (for now). So now I stay with the $7 cube LOL. The ShengShou is very forgiving, turns very light and has exact same size as GAN 356. Perfect for me. I see now that all the cubes that come out are more and more becomming equally good. All just a matter of personal preferences.



I saw you wrote it on facebook and I thought I've misred it. Ok. I'll follow your advice and but both - SS and Thv1.


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## mark49152 (Sep 10, 2016)

I have had the same main for two years, AoLong v2. Before that, Zhanchi and ShuangRen v2 for a year each. Does anyone else here stick with their mains for that long?


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## Selkie (Sep 10, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> I have had the same main for two years, AoLong v2. Before that, Zhanchi and ShuangRen v2 for a year each. Does anyone else here stick with their mains for that long?



The Lubix Zhanchi was my main for about 3 years mate being replaced with the Weilong I think and I have had about 5 different mains since then.


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## MarcelP (Sep 10, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> I have had the same main for two years, AoLong v2. Before that, Zhanchi and ShuangRen v2 for a year each. Does anyone else here stick with their mains for that long?


I think my longest was Gan 356 for more than a year. Right now I go from one new cube to the next. No practicing a lot does not help in sticking with a great cube. LOL. What is your current main?


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## JohnnyReggae (Sep 10, 2016)

JanW said:


> Welcome to all new oldies!
> 
> I also learned PLL about 2 months ago and have been looking a bit into OLL lately. My impression is that it is totally worth it. Many of the algs are short, very easy to learn and fast to execute. In fact, with 2-look OLL you would quite often use the first step to set up a case that requires a lot more moves than the OLL would have required with 1 look.


I would recommend spending the time to learn full OLL. In truth it's not that hard and shouldn't take to long. I started off with cases that I started to recognise often, but then I started grouping them in shapes which worked out quite well. A lot of the same shapes can be done with mirror algs and lefty versions of the righty algs which means that you don't need to learn a lot of different algs. In all it probably took me around 4 months to learn full OLL and I am so glad that I did because being able to 2 Look the last layers really does help bring your times down.


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## h2f (Sep 10, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> I have had the same main for two years, AoLong v2. Before that, Zhanchi and ShuangRen v2 for a year each. Does anyone else here stick with their mains for that long?



I used aolong v1 for almost a year and half. And in 3bld for 2 years.


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## mark49152 (Sep 10, 2016)

MarcelP said:


> What is your current main?


Still the AoLong v2. I restickered it recently with Cubicle Moyu shades as the old stickers were chipped and the adhesive had gone off. I washed the pieces to get the glue off, and now it feels different.

I don't buy many new 3x3s any more. It got too expensive and I only use them a few times. No Valk, no XMan, no Thunderclap v2, no GTS, no Air. The last new 3x3 I got was YueXiao.


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## h2f (Sep 10, 2016)

Look at this scramble: F2 D2 B2 L2 R D2 L' U2 R' U2 L' F' D B2 U B U2 B' F L' R'
I got PLL skip in 16.04 solve.

I'm trying to do as many 3x3 as I can in one day. I had a very busy week and today I'm home. Finally I got 18.98 ao50 in 104th solve.


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## mark49152 (Sep 10, 2016)

h2f said:


> Look at this scramble: F2 D2 B2 L2 R D2 L' U2 R' U2 L' F' D B2 U B U2 B' F L' R'
> I got PLL skip in 16.04 solve.


Interesting cross, but after that I had no free pairs. Ended in U perm. Didn't time it.


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## h2f (Sep 10, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> Interesting cross, but after that I had no free pairs. Ended in U perm. Didn't time it.


In the second attempt I also had Uperm.


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## mafergut (Sep 10, 2016)

Wow! So many pages since I last posted anything. Replying to the last discussion items. I also have been jumping from cube to cube lately but I still can't get better times with any of them than with two of my oldest mains, the YJ Sulong and Chilong, so I end up going back to them once in a while. From the latest cubes the one that I stick to the most is the Yuexiao, even though I still get catches with it.

My first speedcube (by then I wouldn't talk about my "main") was a stickerless Zhanchi, then Aolong v1, then Sulong, Chilong and after that a lot of cubes one after the other (Huanying, Yueying, Hualong, Tanglong, Yuexiao... I'm sure I'm forgetting one or two). The one I used as main for the longest time was the Chilong (over a year). Also the Aolong v1 was with me for quite some time. Let's see if The Valk can make it to my mains list. The Air has not made it but I will keep trying a bit more to see if after 200+ solves it gets better.


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## Shaky Hands (Sep 11, 2016)

Just had my first 3BLD success ever in the Weekly Comp. Just using OP for everything at the moment. Still very happy with a slow time as I missed out on a success a few weeks back before going away with a corner-twist during execution.

Spending a long time on memo as I've been double-checking a lot of things as I really wanted to get a success at some point. Now that I've managed to get one I can concentrate on making some improvements.

Following reconstruction is mostly for me, just to make a permanent record of the memory. Nothing for M2 gurus to learn here. Hopefully just the first of many successes to come:



Spoiler



Scramble: R2 F' D2 B' D B2 L' U2 F L' U2 R2 B2 D2 F2 R U2 R' D2 L2

z2 // inspection

// edges, memo group 1
l y' R' U L' U2 R U' R' U2 R L U' y l' // S
d' L R U R' U' R' F R2 U' R' U' R U R' F' L' d // F
l2 y' R' U L' U2 R U' R' U2 R L U' y l2 // U
d L R U R' U' R' F R2 U' R' U' R U R' F' L' d' // N
d' L' R U R' U' R' F R2 U' R' U' R U R' F' L d // P

// edges, memo group 2
y' R' U L' U2 R U' R' U2 R L U' y // A
d L' R U R' U' R' F R2 U' R' U' R U R' F' L d' // H
L2 D l' R U R' F' R U R' U' R' F R2 U' R' U' l D' L2 // E
L2 R U R' U' R' F R2 U' R' U' R U R' F' L2 // X
y' R' U L' U2 R U' R' U2 R L U' y // A

// corners
F R U' R' U' R U R' F' R U R' U' R' F R F' // C
F' R' R U' R' U' R U R' F' R U R' U' R' F R R F // V
R2 F R U' R' U' R U R' F' R U R' U' R' F R F' R2 // W
R D' R U' R' U' R U R' F' R U R' U' R' F R D R' // B
F R' R U' R' U' R U R' F' R U R' U' R' F R R F' // D
F2 R' R U' R' U' R U R' F' R U R' U' R' F R R F2 // G
D2 R U' R' U' R U R' F' R U R' U' R' F R D2 // H
D F' R U' R' U' R U R' F' R U R' U' R' F R F D' // X



I suspect I'm missing a better setup for the J-perm swap of the edge in Speffz position E as I'm currently doing L2 D l' (J-perm) l D' L2. Any suggestions?


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## Selkie (Sep 11, 2016)

@Shaky Hands Awesome news Andy, congratulations mate


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## One Wheel (Sep 11, 2016)

Shaky Hands said:


> Just had my first 3BLD success ever in the Weekly Comp. Just using OP for everything at the moment. Still very happy with a slow time as I missed out on a success a few weeks back before going away with a corner-twist during execution.
> 
> Spending a long time on memo as I've been double-checking a lot of things as I really wanted to get a success at some point. Now that I've managed to get one I can concentrate on making some improvements.
> 
> ...



Are those setup moves right? I don't quite use Speffz, but that looks like it moves the BL edge into position for a T-perm, and that setup could be done with an L move. It also moves LU into position for a J-perm, which I would execute as L' Dw L' [T-perm] L Dw' L.


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## Shaky Hands (Sep 11, 2016)

One Wheel said:


> Are those setup moves right? I don't quite use Speffz, but that looks like it moves the BL edge into position for a T-perm, and that setup could be done with an L move. It also moves LU into position for a J-perm, which I would execute as L' Dw L' [T-perm] L Dw' L.



My mistake. Setup is correct, but should be L2 D l' (*J*-perm) l D' L2 rather than L2 D l' (*T*-perm) l D' L2. Now corrected in original post.


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## h2f (Sep 11, 2016)

Congrats @Shaky Hands .


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## mickael (Sep 11, 2016)

Bravo!


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## Lid (Sep 11, 2016)

Shaky Hands said:


> My mistake. Setup is correct, but should be L2 D l' (*J*-perm) l D' L2 rather than L2 D l' (*T*-perm) l D' L2. Now corrected in original post.


R2 B' R' B R' F' U' F R U R' U' (you can do it like x' R2 U' R' U l' F' U' F R U R' U')


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## mafergut (Sep 11, 2016)

MarcelP said:


> Well, my current main is a $7 cube
> 
> 
> 
> (unboxing). I also have the Valk3. I think Valk3 is probably the best performing cube out there. It has a very smooth feeling, and cuts everything. It is the size that does not fit my hands (for now). So now I stay with the $7 cube LOL. The ShengShou is very forgiving, turns very light and has exact same size as GAN 356. Perfect for me. I see now that all the cubes that come out are more and more becomming equally good. All just a matter of personal preferences.


Are you really using the FangYuan as your new main? I hadn't even heard about the cube until I saw your post. Has corner cutting improved with breaking in? Have you lubed it? I am tempted to buy one


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## mark49152 (Sep 11, 2016)

Congrats @Shaky Hands. Welcome to BLDers anonymous


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## MarcelP (Sep 11, 2016)

mafergut said:


> Are you really using the FangYuan as your new main? I hadn't even heard about the cube until I saw your post. Has corner cutting improved with breaking in? Have you lubed it? I am tempted to buy one


Yeah..
Here some solves of this evening. I cut out the best Ao5 out of this Ao12 18.27


Spoiler



Generated By csTimer on 2016-9-11
solves/total: 12/12

single
best: 15.63
worst: 24.21

mean of 3
current: 17.87 (σ = 0.90)
best: 16.76 (σ = 1.42)

avg of 5
current: 17.69 (σ = 0.61)
best: 17.27 (σ = 1.04)

avg of 12
current: 18.27 (σ = 1.34)
best: 18.27 (σ = 1.34)

Average: 18.27 (σ = 1.34)
Mean: 18.55

Time List:
1. 18.75 L D B2 R2 U2 D' L2 D' L D2 F2 L2 D2 B D2 L2 F' U2 B2 L2
2. 18.75 L' D L2 U2 F2 U L2 B2 D L2 D' B2 R' F U' R D2 R F' D U'
3. 20.47 B' L' U B D' R B' U B D2 F' U2 B2 U2 F' R2 B2 R2 D2 U'
4. 16.69  F2 U2 R F2 L D2 U2 L D2 R F2 B D2 U B2 U' R2 D F' U L'
5. 19.79 L' U L2 U' B D' F' R' U B2 D2 B2 D' B2 U' F2 D2 B2 F'
6. 24.21 L2 B2 U2 B2 D' B2 U F2 U2 R2 B R2 D' F' U B' R D' L' U2
7. 16.28  R D' L2 B2 R2 U R' B U B2 L2 D B2 D2 F2 R2 D' B2 D F
8. 15.63 F L2 D' L2 D' F2 R2 B2 D2 R2 U B' D2 F' U L D2 L F U
9. 18.35 U R2 D' F2 R2 D2 F2 D' R2 D' U2 F R F' L' D2 R2 B F R U2
10. 18.88 L2 R F2 U2 F2 D2 L B2 D2 U2 L' U' B' R2 F2 U B' L R D' U'
11. 17.17 F' D' R' U2 F' R' U' F B' U2 L2 D2 R2 U L2 U' L2 D B2 D R
12. 17.53 U' B2 F2 U L2 D' F2 U' B2 F' L' R F D' L F U' R F







After lubing and tensioning it and doing approx 300 solves it became even better . Just awesome


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## h2f (Sep 11, 2016)

MarcelP said:


> Yeah..
> Here some solves of this evening. I cut out the best Ao5 out of this Ao12 18.27
> After lubing and tensioning it and doing approx 300 solves it became even better . Just awesome



Nice times. I must buy it than. I need stable cube because my Thundrclap is very broken in and needs replacement.


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## newtonbase (Sep 11, 2016)

Well done @Shaky Hands 

Time for an official success now.


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## Jason Green (Sep 12, 2016)

Here's a video I did of the Oregon comp. Hope you enjoy.  (Also hope to see Dave from Youtube coming to join us soon!)


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## h2f (Sep 12, 2016)

Jason Green said:


> Here's a video I did of the Oregon comp. Hope you enjoy.  (Also hope to see Dave from Youtube coming to join us soon!)


Very nice video.

Wysłane z mojego GT-S7580 przy użyciu Tapatalka


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## MarcelP (Sep 12, 2016)

h2f said:


> Nice times. I must buy it than. I need stable cube because my Thundrclap is very broken in and needs replacement.


Well, for a $7 cube incl shipping you can't go wrong  Still The Valk3 is better. It is smoother and cuts more. But I can not get sub 19 averages, where as I can easily with the FangYuan. I think many people will like the FangYuan. It is a mix of TangLong with Gan 356. Being stable is the best factor used from TangLong and being ridiculous forgiving used from Gan 356.


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## muchacho (Sep 12, 2016)

Jason Green said:


> Here's a video I did of the Oregon comp. Hope you enjoy.  (Also hope to see Dave from Youtube coming to join us soon!)


Good video. The one solving while standing is old? He is fast.


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## Shaky Hands (Sep 12, 2016)

@Jason Green - cool video. Lots of fast people there.


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## Jason Green (Sep 12, 2016)

muchacho said:


> Good video. The one solving while standing is old? He is fast.


Yeah that's @jfly from the WCA software team. You see why he wants age based stats, he's probably first.


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## CLL Smooth (Sep 12, 2016)

Awesome video Jason! It was great meeting you and I'm glad you got so much great footage. I see myself finishing a 3x3 solve and an OH solve. Happen to have any more footage of my solves?


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## Jason Green (Sep 12, 2016)

CLL Smooth said:


> Awesome video Jason! It was great meeting you and I'm glad you got so much great footage. I see myself finishing a 3x3 solve and an OH solve. Happen to have any more footage of my solves?


Some I think. I shared the footage on my Google drive for @Chree. Can you message me your email and I'll add you to the share?


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## Selkie (Sep 12, 2016)

@Jason Green - Awesome video mate, really enjoyed that


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## Jason Green (Sep 12, 2016)

Thanks for the positive feedback everyone. They are fun to put together! I worried about this I've getting long, but wanted to show lots of the cubers.


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## Chree (Sep 13, 2016)

CLL Smooth said:


> Awesome video Jason! It was great meeting you and I'm glad you got so much great footage. I see myself finishing a 3x3 solve and an OH solve. Happen to have any more footage of my solves?



I've got some of those, I think.

Edit: Yup, 2 OH solves and a 2x2 reaction.


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## newtonbase (Sep 13, 2016)

Must be all the COLL you know @Logiqx


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## muchacho (Sep 13, 2016)

2x2 PB: 6.884 Mo100 (was 7.326 from 31-jul)

I said I was not going to buy new cubes, but I had to, my Dayan 2x2 was not fun to solve and I was not improving so I bought the KungFu YueHun (because it was cheaper than the Weipo and I had to buy a stickerless and a black one), it has some issues but it's an improvement.


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## muchacho (Sep 13, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> View attachment 6899
> Must be all the COLL you know @Logiqx


hahahahahahahaha


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## mafergut (Sep 13, 2016)

muchacho said:


> 2x2 PB: 6.884 Mo100 (was 7.326 from 31-jul)
> 
> I said I was not going to buy new cubes, but I had to, my Dayan 2x2 was not fun to solve and I was not improving so I bought the KungFu YueHun (because it was cheaper than the Weipo and I had to buy a stickerless and a black one), it has some issues but it's an improvement.


Nice! What are those issues? In my case the cube was a bit too fast, other than that it was just perfect, maybe even better than the Weipo. I just need to take the time to lube it and try to slow it down a bit.


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## muchacho (Sep 13, 2016)

It was a bit loose and a couple of times it locked (one side not moving) due to one of the three locking edges getting misplaced (or whatever), I tighten it up like 90 degrees and issue solved, but it's not so fast now. Also 3-4 times (out of 200 solves) one of the pieces (not the whole corner) popped out.


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## mrs1986 (Sep 13, 2016)

I can see now that there is people who like solving this kind of puzzles still, I'm 30 and learnt being old already, I can't go lower than 50 seconds but anyway, some practice and new hands will do it 

Edit: Ok, my post was too light in content so I'm going to add something here.

I joined this forum in 2013, I played a bit with a dayan zanchi I bought, then after that I stopped playing with the puzzle, it got lost and I felt like playing with a cube again just a couple of weeks ago. I'm using a zanchi mini (55mm) that belongs to my cousin, I gave it to her as a present just after I started solving. Never was a "speed solver" nor was my intention, I just wanted to learn how to solve the puzzle so I bought one and started with some tutorials... Until now, I use the badmephisto beginner method, but half F2L and half beginner. With these settings and some serious motricity problems i'm averaging around 50-52 seconds... I wan't to get sub 20, sometime I will.

Sorry for the long post and sorry for my english (I'm from Uruguay)


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## muchacho (Sep 13, 2016)

Don't worry, I learned when I was almost 39, so no excuses 

Welcome!


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## h2f (Sep 13, 2016)

mrs1986 said:


> I wan't to get sub 20, sometime I will.



Dont give up. I've learnt cubing when I was 39 like @muchacho. I thought I will never be sub20 solver and now - I am. Now I have to do ao5 sub20 during competition. Practice is all you need.


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## newtonbase (Sep 13, 2016)

I was 42. I'm still a way off sub 20s but that's lack of practice not age.


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## mafergut (Sep 13, 2016)

Same here. I learned when I was 43 and I am barely sub 20 after 3 years of practice. Keep pushing!


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## mrs1986 (Sep 13, 2016)

Thanks for your comment guys! I hope to learn and be able to reach that goal!


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## Jason Green (Sep 13, 2016)

mrs1986 said:


> Thanks for your comment guys! I hope to learn and be able to reach that goal!


You can do it! And welcome!


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## Logiqx (Sep 13, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> View attachment 6899
> Must be all the COLL you know @Logiqx



Good spot! Where did you see it?


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## Shaky Hands (Sep 13, 2016)

@mrs1986 - welcome to the thread. Hope you find lots of useful info to learn here. Have fun.


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## MarcelP (Sep 13, 2016)

@mrs1986 - welcome!


Okay, the new cubes make me having quite a bit of fun practising again. I feel like there will be better averages for me soon  You will all be in trouble!

first solve of today




reconstruction


Spoiler: 13.20 single



1. 13.20 U L2 U' B2 F2 R2 F2 D2 F2 R2 D2 L R' D B' L' U R2 B' U R2
x2// inspection
D' B' D' L U' R' F R D2 // CROSS PFFT (10)
U' R U' R' U' L U L' // 1ST (8)
R' U R y L' U' L // 2ND (7)
R U R' U2 R U' R' // 3RD (7)
y U' R' U R U2 R' U2 R U' R' U R // 4TH (13)
U' f R U R' U' R U R' U' f' // OLL (11)
R2 U' R' U' R U R U R U' R U // PLL (12)
// 13.20 IN 68 MOVES is 5.15 TPS


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## newtonbase (Sep 13, 2016)

Logiqx said:


> Good spot! Where did you see it?


Outside my son's nursery in Milton Keynes. I saw it yesterday first and had to hope it would still be there to get a shot.


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## Logiqx (Sep 13, 2016)

Where are you guys planning to stay in Guildford? I'm thinking of booking a room at the Premiere Inn.

It would be great to meet up for a drink and food on Friday / Saturday.


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## Shaky Hands (Sep 13, 2016)

I've got family in driving distance from there so will pay Mama Shaky a visit and sleep for free. Up for food and a pint when people are free on the Saturday though. I've got nothing after 3BLD that day anyway.


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## newtonbase (Sep 13, 2016)

I'm at the Travelodge (GU1 1BD) on the Saturday and definitely up for food and beer.


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## Logiqx (Sep 13, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> I'm at the Travelodge (GU1 1BD) on the Saturday and definitely up for food and beer.



Cool. I'm booked in as well - Fri & Sat.


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## newtonbase (Sep 13, 2016)

Logiqx said:


> Cool. I'm booked in as well - Fri & Sat.


Excellent.


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## Lid (Sep 14, 2016)

@Selkie Megaminx 1:49.96 a12 finally  Only 4 sub1:50, but all were sub2, LL on the 1:30 was: R' U' F (U R U' R') F' R + Sune! 

Times: 1:35.83, 1:49.92, (1:58.89), 1:55.37, 1:57.71, 1:55.33, 1:51.48, 1:50.70, (1:30.06), 1:51.56, 1:39.53, 1:52.17

Also did a load of 2x2 earlier and my best a100 was 5.38 so I guess that count as new PB since I havent really tracked it b4.


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## muchacho (Sep 14, 2016)

Kilominx PBs, I've somehow improved like 10 seconds after 1 week without doing a solve :confused:

Single: 1:00.101
Ao5: 1:10.396
Ao12: 1:13.510

I learned 2 algs for it, the ones for flipping 5 corners... but already forgotten


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## MarcelP (Sep 14, 2016)

muchacho said:


> Kilominx PBs, I've somehow improved like 10 seconds after 1 week without doing a solve :confused:
> 
> Single: 1:00.101
> Ao5: 1:10.396
> ...


Can you make a video for beginner solution on Last layer? I have one and it is scrambled.... LOL and I do not know how to solve the LL.


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## muchacho (Sep 14, 2016)

I could do a video, but it would not be the best thing to learn from 

To orient the corners:
- (With LL on top) Rotate the puzzle (x') and then do R' U' R U (2 or 4 times) on an unoriented corner, once solved move to the next unoriented corner (doing 1 or more L or L' moves) and repeat.

To permute them:
- Follow the instructions from this video (starting at 23:14):


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## MarcelP (Sep 14, 2016)

Okay, I have set my mind on getting faster on 3x3. I have been stuck at 19 secs for almost two years. I have been getting comments by younger ones on my cube video's that I need to turn faster. LOL I always say, if I turn faster than I can not lookahead. Well one responded the other day that if I do not increase my speed, I will not learn to look ahead faster... That made me think. So for a while I have been practicing at turning faster. And today I had a streak of 23 solves that where all sub 20. That has never ever happened to me before. Even in my most fastest Ao12 where some solves sup 20.



Spoiler



I cut a few of.. but you get the idea:
10. 19.08 D' L' D R F R' F' R' U L2 D B2 D R2 B2 R2 B2 D B2 F'
11. 18.03 F2 D L2 D R2 D U2 B2 R2 D2 L2 R' D' L2 R2 B L B F' U2 B2
12. 15.41 F' R2 D2 B R2 B' D2 F2 L2 F2 R2 D F2 L D2 U' F D2 U' R' B2
13. 17.57 F' L2 F2 U' R2 F2 U' L2 F2 D B2 U2 F' R' D' B R F2 R' B U'
14. 17.81 U2 B L U R2 B U R D2 F2 B2 U B2 D2 F2 U B2 R2 B2
15. 18.10 F2 U2 R2 U' R2 B2 U' L2 D F R B' F' D2 U2 R' D U'
16. 18.37 R B2 R F2 L D2 F2 R' F D F R B D' F2 U B L'
17. 19.71 R D2 B2 D2 F2 L' D2 B2 L2 B2 R' D R2 U' F' U R' U B R'
18. 19.86 F2 R L2 F' U B D' B' D' R' F2 U2 F2 D2 R2 L' D2 L' F2 U2
19. 18.45 F' D' F2 R2 B2 R2 D' B2 R2 D' U' B2 R' B L F' D' R' B' U' R2
20. 17.25 L' U B2 U' L' F D' B U2 L' D2 F2 D2 B2 L2 F2 L' U2 R2 F
21. 18.95 U2 B' U R' F L2 F R F L2 D2 L2 D' B2 D2 R2 D R2 U' R2
22. 18.58 F B R F' U B2 D L' F' D' B2 R2 F2 U L2 D' F2 U2 D R2
23. 19.76 D B' U2 F D2 L2 D2 R2 F D2 F U2 D L2 B2 L' B R F R2 F2


Could have been better in frame unfortunatly, and Youtube had a claim on audio content so I removed sound.




Cube: Valk3 (the Ao100 was 18.20 which is damn close to my PB so I guess this cube is allright. I only wish I had done this average with my main ShengShou)


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## h2f (Sep 14, 2016)

MarcelP said:


> Okay, I have set my mind on getting faster on 3x3. I have been stuck at 19 secs for almost two years. I have been getting comments by younger ones on my cube video's that I need to turn faster. LOL I always say, if I turn faster than I can not lookahead. Well one responded the other day that if I do not increase my speed, I will not learn to look ahead faster... That made me think. So for a while I have been practicing at turning faster. And today I had a streak of 23 solves that where all sub 20. That has never ever happened to me before. Even in my most fastest Ao12 where some solves sup 20.



I've broke sub20 when youngster start keep saying me - what about your tps? Why it's so low? And one said: dont matter fluidyity just keep pushing and lookahead will come naturally. And it worked as I mentioned earlier. For me it means: always question the way you practice.  

I'm back to 4bld and 5bld. Still no success but I'm closer to it. In 4bld I was off byt 2 twisted corners and in 5bld by few wings. I really like big blindes - they make me relaxed.


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## mafergut (Sep 14, 2016)

MarcelP said:


> Okay, I have set my mind on getting faster on 3x3. I have been stuck at 19 secs for almost two years. I have been getting comments by younger ones on my cube video's that I need to turn faster. LOL I always say, if I turn faster than I can not lookahead. Well one responded the other day that if I do not increase my speed, I will not learn to look ahead faster... That made me think. So for a while I have been practicing at turning faster. And today I had a streak of 23 solves that where all sub 20. That has never ever happened to me before. Even in my most fastest Ao12 where some solves sup 20.
> 
> Cube: Valk3 (the Ao100 was 18.20 which is damn close to my PB so I guess this cube is allright. I only wish I had done this average with my main ShengShou)


When I get my PB or close to PB Ao100 (I'm more like high 18s so a bit slower than you) it's always when I can turn a bit faster AND maintain my lookahead. But that does not happen always, sadly. Many times I increase my TPS a bit but lose lookahead, ending up with worse times. But when you're on that sweet spot... well, solves simply flow and that's gratifying.

It seems like you'll convince me to buy the FangYuan if you keep talking marvels of it  I have ordered a Big Sail 6.8cm just for fun (it was so cheap and with free shipping so I couldn't resist).


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## mark49152 (Sep 14, 2016)

@MarcelP : Nice average. All white and yellow crosses. Have you abandoned full CN?


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## muchacho (Sep 14, 2016)

3x3 Ao5 PB: 17.005 (old was 18.105 from 1 month ago)



Spoiler



26757 14-sep-2016 18:42:57 00:17.320 R2 U' B2 U F2 L2 U R2 B2 D' U' B' U' R L2 F' R U' L' F L2 D'
26756 14-sep-2016 18:42:11 00:23.023 B2 R2 D2 B2 R2 D' L2 B2 R2 L2 D F' R' L2 D2 U F D2 R2 B' R2 U2
26755 14-sep-2016 18:41:29 00:16.512 L2 B2 D2 R2 D' L2 F2 R2 D' B2 U2 L B U2 R' D U B' F2 R2 F' R'
26754 14-sep-2016 18:40:49 00:16.087 B2 L2 F2 D2 B2 L2 U B2 F2 U' R2 B' U2 R' F L B' D' F' D2 F2
26753 14-sep-2016 18:40:10 00:17.184 R2 D2 R2 D' R2 U L2 D' B2 U' B F2 D' R B2 R F' U F' D2


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## mafergut (Sep 14, 2016)

muchacho said:


> 3x3 Ao5 PB: 17.005 (old was 18.105 from 1 month ago)


Wow! that's improvement!!! Congrats.


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## muchacho (Sep 14, 2016)

Thanks, it was mainly luck, I'm not feeling any improvement in last weeks, probably I won't get a sub-21 Mo100 before the end of this month... my goal (https://www.speedsolving.com/forum/threads/goals-thread.9117/page-133#post-1177474) for that was sub-20


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## mafergut (Sep 14, 2016)

muchacho said:


> Thanks, it was mainly luck, I'm not feeling any improvement in last weeks, probably I won't get a sub-21 Mo100 before the end of this month... my goal (https://www.speedsolving.com/forum/threads/goals-thread.9117/page-133#post-1177474) for that was sub-20


Talking about unfulfilled goals... an excerpt from my Goals post (linked in my signature) also for end of September:
3x3: Get globally sub-20 Full CN, *Nope. *sub-18 Ao50 white/yellow DCN. *Nope*.
4x4: [...] sub 1min single: *Nope*, sub 1:10 Ao5: *Nope*


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## Jason Green (Sep 15, 2016)

MarcelP said:


> Well one responded the other day that if I do not increase my speed, I will not learn to look ahead faster... That made me think.



I guess that's how I've always felt, that's why it's hard for me to practice slow, I just want to get better at recognizing at my fastest TPS. I think for whatever combination of TPS and lookahead you currently have, turning slower will probably be more consistent results. But as you said, you have to push it to improve your look ahead at higher speeds.

There is going to be a comp near here on 10/22, the nearest one I've been to yet! I just happened to check the site today and saw it, and registration opened this evening. It's almost full already so I'm glad I did not miss it. Cubingusa.com has an option to get notifications of new events, but I never get any. Does anyone in the US use that?


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## newtonbase (Sep 15, 2016)

Due to pushing memo speed I'm on a huge 3BLD DNF streak. It's a bit demoralising but I'm determined that my next success will be a PB (although I can't actually remember my exact PB). But this morning I saw 2 cubes together so had a sneaky MBLD attempt and got it easily. My 2nd success from 5 attempts.


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## mark49152 (Sep 15, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> Due to pushing memo speed I'm on a huge 3BLD DNF streak. It's a bit demoralising but I'm determined that my next success will be a PB (although I can't actually remember my exact PB). But this morning I saw 2 cubes together so had a sneaky MBLD attempt and got it easily. My 2nd success from 5 attempts.


Nice one Mark. I can't remember who gave me the advice, but if your success rate is not low, you're not practising memo aggressively enough.


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## newtonbase (Sep 15, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> Nice one Mark. I can't remember who gave me the advice, but if your success rate is not low, you're not practising memo aggressively enough.


Yes, it's been said here and elsewhere that 50% is a good success rate for practice. I have been concentrating on letter pairs and some edge comms recently so needed some timed practice ahead of Guildford.


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## MarcelP (Sep 15, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> @MarcelP : Nice average. All white and yellow crosses. Have you abandoned full CN?


No, I do practice CN when I do practice without timer. Slow  In High TPS solves I need to pick white or yellow because I have yellow/white filter in my brain that recognises edge pieces without even having seen a corner. In other colors I do not have that filter and then I need to find corners first. It does not differ a lot but I feel more confident at yellow/white at higher TPS.


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## One Wheel (Sep 15, 2016)

Jason Green said:


> Cubingusa.com has an option to get notifications of new events, but I never get any. Does anyone in the US use that?



I checked the box to get notifications of any comp within 250 miles and never got a notification of a comp about 90 miles away. I just figure that doesn't work, and check WCA a couple times a week. 

Unrelated, but last night I added to my list of near-second-successes for blind. I've been off by an A-perm before, this time it was just two flipped edges.


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## newtonbase (Sep 15, 2016)

One Wheel said:


> this time it was just two flipped edges.




Bane of my cubing life. Did you forget to do them or not spot them?


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## One Wheel (Sep 15, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> Bane of my cubing life. Did you forget to do them or not spot them?


Not entirely sure. My best guess is that I memorized the wrong sticker on the right piece. If I recall correctly one of the two was my buffer, so I might have just forgotten to execute it, too.


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## newtonbase (Sep 15, 2016)

One Wheel said:


> Not entirely sure. My best guess is that I memorized the wrong sticker on the right piece. If I recall correctly one of the two was my buffer, so I might have just forgotten to execute it, too.


Forgetting to execute was my favourite trick. 

Got a timed 3BLD success and I think it was a PB. Memo was sub 50s but then I executed an edge out of order and had to go back followed by a recall pause on the last corner pair. Am pleased with it.


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## gateway cuber (Sep 15, 2016)

MarcelP said:


> Okay, I have set my mind on getting faster on 3x3. I have been stuck at 19 secs for almost two years. I have been getting comments by younger ones on my cube video's that I need to turn faster. LOL I always say, if I turn faster than I can not lookahead. Well one responded the other day that if I do not increase my speed, I will not learn to look ahead faster... That made me think. So for a while I have been practicing at turning faster. And today I had a streak of 23 solves that where all sub 20. That has never ever happened to me before. Even in my most fastest Ao12 where some solves sup 20.



OK, I realize I'm a younger cuber so I don't belong here. but after watching your video, I can say the kid who told you that was right but I still noticed little like 0.4 sec pauses between pairs, which isn't bad. But to get sub 15 you have to eliminate those. also all those other kids were also right about tps, but don't worry about tps during F2L try to execute OLL and PLL as fast as you can. So some practice drills to try and eliminate those small, small pauses and to increase tps during LL include...

1. solve super slowly and solve without any pauses whatsoever and once you can solve at a certain speed without pauses, bump it up a notch then another notch and another notch. but be sure you still do your routine Ao50s to Ao100s. this drill should drastically improve you lookahead (which isn't bad, but when you cut out all thos 0.4 pauses, you're looking at a 17 sec avg versus a 19 sec avg.)

2. Drill you OLLs and PLLs, so drill all you PLLs all the time (especially the more difficult to execute ones such as V-perm, N-Perm, G-Perm, etc) and with OLL I don't think you need to drill easy ones like sune but drill all of your least favorite to execute. I found that when I was struggling for sub-15 that some of my OLLs took up to 3 secs! And once I got those times down It was easy to get sub-15.

Hope This Helped!


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## One Wheel (Sep 15, 2016)

As I think back I might have forgotten to memorize that piece at all. I memorized letter pairs for most of the edges, and at the end of memo I realized that I had two edges in place but flipped, so rather than try memorizing more letters I just visually remembered which two edges were flipped. I wasn't paying attention to the orientation of my buffer, so the other flipped edge probably started that way and I mistook a finger on the piece to hold the cube for a finger to note a solved piece.


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## mark49152 (Sep 15, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> Memo was sub 50s


Nice one, that's a huge improvement...


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## newtonbase (Sep 15, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> Nice one, that's a huge improvement...


Yes, I just need to do it consistently now. It's nice to get a memo that was quicker than the execution. You can take a lot of the credit.


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## MarcelP (Sep 15, 2016)

gateway cuber said:


> OK, I realize I'm a younger cuber so I don't belong here. but after watching your video, I can say the kid who told you that was right but I still noticed little like 0.4 sec pauses between pairs, which isn't bad. But to get sub 15 you have to eliminate those. also all those other kids were also right about tps, but don't worry about tps during F2L try to execute OLL and PLL as fast as you can. So some practice drills to try and eliminate those small, small pauses and to increase tps during LL include...
> 
> 1. solve super slowly and solve without any pauses whatsoever and once you can solve at a certain speed without pauses, bump it up a notch then another notch and another notch. but be sure you still do your routine Ao50s to Ao100s. this drill should drastically improve you lookahead (which isn't bad, but when you cut out all thos 0.4 pauses, you're looking at a 17 sec avg versus a 19 sec avg.)
> 
> ...


Thanks. Yeah my LL is probably the worst part of the solve. I average F2L at 11 - 12 secs. Drilling OLL and PLL is probably a good thing for me. Especially since I am seemingly are forgetting OLL's. LOL I just did this today:

7. 15.54 B U2 F2 L2 R' D2 L U2 B2 U2 L D2 B R U' B2 R2 B2 D2 L'
8. 15.09 R2 D2 L2 U2 F2 L B2 L D2 L' D2 F' U2 B2 U B' R' D' U' R D2
9. 20.85 R F2 L2 B2 D B2 D2 B2 F2 U' L2 B' L' U R' U L' F' D R2
10. 16.23 F' B' R' D F2 D2 L U L B F2 R' F2 U2 L' B2 R' B2 D2 B2 U2
11. 14.64 U B2 L2 R2 D L2 U' R2 F2 D' U' L D2 L B2 D' F U2 R' B' U
12. 16.97 U' D F R F' B U L D R2 D2 B2 R' F2 L F2 L U2 B2

Damn that twenty..


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## mafergut (Sep 15, 2016)

MarcelP said:


> Thanks. Yeah my LL is probably the worst part of the solve. I average F2L at 11 - 12 secs. Drilling OLL and PLL is probably a good thing for me. Especially since I am seemingly are forgetting OLL's. LOL I just did this today:
> 
> 7. 15.54 B U2 F2 L2 R' D2 L U2 B2 U2 L D2 B R U' B2 R2 B2 D2 L'
> 8. 15.09 R2 D2 L2 U2 F2 L B2 L D2 L' D2 F' U2 B2 U B' R' D' U' R D2
> ...


I also tend to either forget or mix up OLLs that solve similar cases (like same top shape but different side stickers) which is frustrating. I am also mixing at times OLLs that just start with the same trigger. But my problem is that I can drill PLLs if I want, I just do it over and over and I have no problem with that but, with OLLs I really need the visual cue to trigger the muscle memory of the alg so, I cannot just start with a solved cube and say, let's practice OLL 46 because that would not work, the memory of the alg is just not triggered (except for easy ones like F-sexy-F'). So, any advice on how to drill OLLs?


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## MarcelP (Sep 15, 2016)

mafergut said:


> So, any advice on how to drill OLLs?


Yep! Check my signature. Select in the program the olls that you want to drill and it keeps giving them on your screen


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## mafergut (Sep 15, 2016)

MarcelP said:


> Yep! Check my signature. Select in the program the olls that you want to drill and it keeps giving them on your screen


Kill me! I didn't know that you had programmed an alg trainer and it looks pretty nice. I will surely use it. As I understand it, it gives you the inverse of the alg so, basically it's helping you set up the cube with the inverse before each go, right? Very helpful. In fact, once I execute the OLL once or twice, with the recent recall I can keep executing it again and again until the cube is solved (or until my fingers get sore ) but, for that 1st setup that will trigger my muscle memory it will be great!

EDIT: Already downloaded and tried it out. Nice!!!


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## phreaker (Sep 15, 2016)

Well, I'm cubing again.

I got a 2 new cubes, and I have some interesting thoughts on them from an "OH" perspective. (Note: I solve with ZZ, so I can't speak to M slices real well, I just don't use them.)

The Valk: This is the real Thunderclap V2. It is smooth, and cuts well. A wonderful cube to use for OH. I need to finish setup on it before my trip but... man, I see the speed potential in this one. It just "feels" nice. It ignores minor mistakes, and doesn't punish you for them.

Gans 356 Air: This cube is an engima to me. I like it's feel when it is "on". When it isn't or somehow I do something off... it locks up. I don't have a great feel for "why" it happens like I do with the Valk.

When I screw up on the Valk, I feel like I have no excuses. On the 356 Air, I'm never quite sure. I never felt that way about my 356v2. Hopefully looser GES nuts, and a bit of tweaking will help it because when it is great... it is WONDERFUL. But it isn't great consistently enough for my taste.

I've got 2-3 solves near my PB for OH. I suspect I'll set it once I complete the setup on the cube, and I get more used to it.


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## muchacho (Sep 15, 2016)

Next Monday there will be a comp in my city, unofficial, only 3x3, handscrambled and only 3 solves. The best thing is this year it will be held in the morning (last one was at night in the street, and my colorblind eyes suffered badly), so I guess I'll improve my 88 seconds average from last year


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## mark49152 (Sep 15, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> Yes, I just need to do it consistently now. It's nice to get a memo that was quicker than the execution. You can take a lot of the credit.


Sub-2 by UKC please


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## Jason Green (Sep 15, 2016)

mafergut said:


> So, any advice on how to drill OLLs?


Another option is you can do it with cstimer, but I think Marcel's tool is better!




muchacho said:


> Next Monday there will be a comp in my city, unofficial, only 3x3, handscrambled and only 3 solves. The best thing is this year it will be held in the morning (last one was at night in the street, and my colorblind eyes suffered badly), so I guess I'll improve my 88 seconds average from last year



That sounds like a scary comp I would have a dream about.


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## newtonbase (Sep 15, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> Sub-2 by UKC please


Sub 2/top 20 is definitely my goal but that might be a little early!

DYK - had my solve today been official it would have been a 19% drop but only improved my rank from 33 to 30. It starts to get crowded under 2 mins.


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## mark49152 (Sep 15, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> Sub 2/top 20 is definitely my goal but that might be a little early!
> 
> DYK - had my solve today been official it would have been a 19% drop but only improved my rank from 33 to 30. It starts to get crowded under 2 mins.


It's reachable. Go for it. I see what you mean though, there's over 30 seconds between 31st and 29th. It used to be worse - there used to be nobody between Sarah and Jude. I remember because that gap was my target last year . Sarah was 23rd then. 3BLD seems to have got a lot more popular and competitive in the UK this year.


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## newtonbase (Sep 16, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> 3BLD seems to have got a lot more popular and competitive in the UK this year.


That's my concern about leaving it too long. The goalposts keep moving. 2 mins will scrape top 20 now but it even if I get it at the UKs I could end up closer to 25th. Any youngster who puts in a bit of effort seems to get there easily.

Edit: I'm going to have to learn corner comms soon.


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## mark49152 (Sep 16, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> That's my concern about leaving it too long. The goalposts keep moving. 2 mins will scrape top 20 now but it even if I get it at the UKs I could end up closer to 25th. Any youngster who puts in a bit of effort seems to get there easily.
> 
> Edit: I'm going to have to learn corner comms soon.


I think age is less of a disadvantage in BLD. Represent the oldies . But yes, it's competition, and people are working at it all the time. At the end of 2014, 3 minutes would scrape top 20, and Ben's 1:40 was 10th not 15th. My goal was top 10, I missed it by a second at North London in April, and today it's 11 seconds further away.

IMHO, M2/OP will get you sub-2 easily. Comms are a must eventually, but it will take months before they bed in and you're back to the same times and accuracy. That's my experience anyway.


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## Selkie (Sep 16, 2016)

@Logiqx , @Shaky Hands , @newtonbase - Just there for the Sunday for Guildford due to a family birthday in my birthtown of Bicester near Oxford. I am afraid beers for me will ahve to wait until UK Champs in November but still look forward to seeing you all there 

@Lid - Nice, sub 1:50 Ao12! Have a 1:59.xy ao12 but didnt note it down. Not much mega in the last week though so needd some practice this weekend.

@MarcelP - I know exactly where you mean by turnspeed. We hear all the time "Slow down and lookahread" without sometimes reaslising this is great advice for youngsters who turn soooo fast that they cannot nescessarily see the other pieces move. For a few years I have tried to mix up turnspeed in practice, doing some slow sessions and some all out speed. I think my best averages these days are higher TPS than a few years ago but I see a lot of variable TPS in my fastest solves so some slow where I need the lookahead and some not. Its a real coincidence you posted this week about this because in the Valk 3 I have found a cube that is even more forgiving of me going faster so for a week or so I have been doing high TPS averages on and off. I am not seeing great consistency but I am seeing loads of 12.xy fullsteps and the other day I had a sub 15.5 Ao50. I will try and capture some full TPS solves on film today. Great to see your run with no sup 20s and really looking forward to seeing your improvement 

@muchacho - Nice Ao5 and so close to sub 17


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## JohnnyReggae (Sep 16, 2016)

Managed my first sub 15 ao5 yesterday. I've been counting the number of sub15 solves I have and in yesterday's ao100 I had 7 in total, 3 of which were in this ao5  

Ao5 = 14.96

13.57 L' B2 D2 R B2 D2 L' F2 R2 F2 R B' F R' F' U' L' F' D2 U2 B2
(16.72) D2 F2 D' B2 L2 D' R2 F2 D U2 L2 B' U F D2 R B2 F' R' D R'
16.31 F' B2 D' F' R F2 B' L2 U' D2 F' D2 L2 U2 B2 R2 B D2
(13.37) D2 U2 F2 D2 F' L2 U2 F D2 U2 L2 R D' U2 R B' U L2 D2 B' R
14.99 R2 F D2 B L2 D2 B F R2 B R2 L' F R D B' F D R B U

@Selkie - Lookahead has been the single biggest influence on getting lower times for me. When I get it right I get sub 15's quite easily with most of them being fullstep. I've been actively trying to slow down and look ahead more this last week and even that little bit of extra effort has paid off. I find at night after having a couple glasses of wine with the wife that fast solves are not going to happen, I spend the time doing slower solves concentrating solely on looking ahead. Although this can be difficult depending on the number of glasses of wine consumed ;-)


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## newtonbase (Sep 16, 2016)

The Valk 3 is very nice. I'd like to say more about it but I spent most of my time trying to get the box open.


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## MarcelP (Sep 16, 2016)

Selkie said:


> I am not seeing great consistency but I am seeing loads of 12.xy fullsteps and the other day I had a sub 15.5 Ao50. I will try and capture some full TPS solves on film today. Great to see your run with no sup 20s and really looking forward to seeing your improvement



I know what you mean with the consistency  Although I seem to be averaging 18.2X overall now I get about 2 - 3 full step 13's every day.
Yesterday's second solve of the day:







Spoiler



2. 13.39 F2 U2 F2 R2 D' B2 L2 D U2 R2 U' F' U R' B R B2 R2 U F'
y2 // inspection
D R' U R' y' R2 // X-CROSS (6)
R' U R U' R' U' R //2ND (7)
U2 L U' L' //3RD (4)
U' R' U' R U' R' U2 R2 U' R' //4TH (10)
U2 R' F R2 B' R2 F' R2 B R' //OLL (10)
U2 F R U' R' U' R U R' F' R U R' U' R' F R F' U' //PLL (18) 55 moves in 13.39 = 4.10 which is not super fast


Reconstruction: alg.cubing.net


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## Selkie (Sep 16, 2016)

@MarcelP - Very nice fullstep sir. I have to thank you mate, whilst I have tried full TPS on a number of occasions it hasn't been for long and quickly returned to my usual speed. It has been the discussion here that has encouraged me to really try pushing TPS.

I said I would try and get some fullspeed on film today but did not realise how quickly i would be able to capture a sub 15 Ao12. It took less than 20 minutes.

These solves are far from pretty, not fluid, so many pauses, lockup etc. It feels like the equivalent of cutting the brake pipes on my own car. It feel unnatural solving this way and is going to take a lot of getting used to but ... wow. As for consistency, there is the obvious non counting 18.xy and a counting 16.xy but the average of 12 has a standard deviation of 0.68. Doesn't getting much better than that. This was part of a 15.xy Ao50. Really beginning to feel like a sub 14.5 Ao12 and Sub 15 Ao50 might not be as far away as I thought.

Average of 12: 14.88


Spoiler



1. 16.20 U2 B' F' L2 U2 F L2 F R2 D R D L' F2 D2 B' D B U' B 
2. 15.13 R2 F2 U2 L2 F L2 F L2 R2 B2 U' R' F2 U B2 D2 B' D L U' B' 
3. 14.60 F' U2 F2 R2 B R2 F' R2 U2 R2 B' D' L R F D R2 U' B R' B2 
4. 13.94 R2 F2 L2 U2 F' R2 F L2 U2 L2 R B' F2 L D2 U' F2 R F' D2 
5. (18.30) D' B2 U F2 D' B2 D' R2 D U2 B2 F L B R' D2 B' L B2 D2 F 
6. 13.98 B2 L2 B2 R2 D L2 B2 U' R2 U2 L' U2 L' F R2 B L' D2 R 
7. 14.85 U R2 F2 U' R2 U' B2 R2 D B2 U2 R' F U' L D U B F U2 
8. (13.72) R2 U' F2 U' B2 D' U2 F2 R2 B2 L2 F U L' F' U2 R2 U' B R' U' 
9. 15.54 U' L2 U' R2 D R' L' U2 F' R' F2 U2 R B2 R F2 U2 L U2 L' 
10. 14.66 L' U2 B U2 L U D' F D' R' U F2 B2 D' R2 D' F2 D' R2 D' L2 
11. 14.73 U' L2 B2 U F B L F2 D R U L2 D L2 D B2 U2 R2 U2 L2 D 
12. 15.17 F2 D' F2 L2 D2 B2 F2 L2 U' F2 U2 F' D F' L' B' F' D2 F' D U2


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## Selkie (Sep 16, 2016)

@JohnnyReggae - Awesome news. A counting 13 too. Such a great landmark to attain


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## MarcelP (Sep 16, 2016)

Selkie said:


> I said I would try and get some fullspeed on film today but did not realise how quickly i would be able to capture a sub 15 Ao12. It took less than 20 minutes.
> 
> Average of 12: 14.88


Man that is cool stuff. I notice you look at the average between solves.. It messed you up after the 13.94 LOL You became nervous... Never look at the averages. Also, I would encourage you to use inspection on screen. cstimer calls 8 seconds and 12 seconds, which put a bit more pressure on you (which is good if you want to do the same in competition  ).. Man, you make it look very simple..! Good stuff.


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## h2f (Sep 16, 2016)

Mates, for last few days I record my solves again, but after the show you both have made it's hard to publish something similiar...


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## MarcelP (Sep 16, 2016)

h2f said:


> Mates, for last few days I record my solves again, but after the show you both have made it's hard to publish something similiar...


It is not about times  It is about what gets you excited. That is what I want to see too.


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## h2f (Sep 16, 2016)

MarcelP said:


> It is not about times  It is about what gets you excited. That is what I want to see too.



I'll keep in mind.


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## mafergut (Sep 16, 2016)

I will try to film myself something this weekend and I will use the YJ Sulong 
But, I warn you, it will not be sub-15 (well, maybe a single)


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## Selkie (Sep 16, 2016)

12.77 PB Ao5 (previous was 12.91)

All out TPS ... and on film to be uploaded soon


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## Shaky Hands (Sep 16, 2016)

I watched a couple of Hoya tutorials last night and decided that as my 4x4 times are nothing special with regular reduction method (I average about 1:55) I may as well attempt to change method to something with more potential.

I did a Hoya Ao25 over lunchtime of 2:06.33. Nine of the 25 times were better than my (admittedly unimpressive) competition PB so I think I will stick with Hoya for a while and see what progress I can make.

I also did a 5x5 Hoya solve last night just to see how it would work but will just use Hoya on 4x4 for the time being until I've got my technique improved a bit further.


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## JohnnyReggae (Sep 16, 2016)

Shaky Hands said:


> I watched a couple of Hoya tutorials last night and decided that as my 4x4 times are nothing special with regular reduction method (I average about 1:55) I may as well attempt to change method to something with more potential.
> 
> I did a Hoya Ao25 over lunchtime of 2:06.33. Nine of the 25 times were better than my (admittedly unimpressive) competition PB so I think I will stick with Hoya for a while and see what progress I can make.
> 
> I also did a 5x5 Hoya solve last night just to see how it would work but will just use Hoya on 4x4 for the time being until I've got my technique improved a bit further.


I started doing Hoya with 4x4 to see if I could improve on my times using Yau. As yet my Yau times are still better than using Hoya. Not sure if I'll continue pursuing Hoya, but then again I've done very little 4x4 lately ... waiting for my Yuxin 4x4 to arrive. I've tried Hoya and Yau on 5x5 and for me they just doesn't work well enough for me to abandon reduction with free-slice at the moment.


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## Selkie (Sep 16, 2016)

@Shaky Hands - Hoya is a great method Andy. I know @mark49152 uses it for 4 and 5. I did have Adam Greenwood show me on 5 and got really into it but progression with reduction has stalled my practice a bit. 

Thanks again @MarcelP . All out TPS paying off again 

Don't ask about solve 4! Haha

Average of 5: 12.77
1. 12.79 F' L2 U2 R2 B2 F' D2 U2 L2 B L2 R U' F' D' B' F2 D L2 D 
2. (12.38) B R2 U2 F2 R2 B L2 F' L2 R2 F2 U R' U R2 B2 L F R' F2 R' 
3. 13.11 U R L' B L' F' U2 L D2 F U F2 R2 D F2 R2 D F2 R2 B2 D 
4. (22.14) F2 R F2 L2 R D2 B2 L' D2 F2 R' B' U' B R' B2 R' D F' U2 L' 
5. 12.40 D' R' B' U L' D' F' L F' U B2 D2 B2 U L2 D2 B2 L2 B2 U


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## MarcelP (Sep 16, 2016)

Selkie said:


> 12.77 PB Ao5 (previous was 12.91)
> 
> All out TPS ... and on film to be uploaded soon


OMG! That is incredible.. You need to go to a competition soon LOL.. Congrats on the PB! I feel like it will be raining PB's soon for me too.

EDIT: now I saw the video too.. LOL
Do three very fast solves.. then look at average... become very nervous... mess up with a 22. set down cube.. get ready to curse the hell out of something.. then realise I still can make a great average... put all the anger and speed in last solve... it works... Jay!


----------



## mark49152 (Sep 16, 2016)

@Selkie, nice solves. Despite what you say about TPS, it still looks more fluid than fast .


----------



## h2f (Sep 16, 2016)

Indeed, nice solves.

I got 22 sub20 solves in a row. But camera wasnt on.


----------



## MarcelP (Sep 16, 2016)

h2f said:


> Indeed, nice solves.
> 
> I got 22 sub20 solves in a row. But camera wasnt on.


Not on camera, did not happen.. LOL


----------



## Selkie (Sep 16, 2016)

MarcelP said:


> OMG! That is incredible.. You need to go to a competition soon LOL.. Congrats on the PB! I feel like it will be raining PB's soon for me too.
> 
> EDIT: now I saw the video too.. LOL
> Do three very fast solves.. then look at average... become very nervous... mess up with a 22. set down cube.. get ready to curse the hell out of something.. then realise I still can make a great average... put all the anger and speed in last solve... it works... Jay!



Haha very close Marcel. I have had 3-4 average in last 2 weeks where first 3 solves were great. On all occasions I have ruined solves 4 and 5. I saw I had ruined 4 so was more determined and concentrated on the last solve.



mark49152 said:


> @Selkie, nice solves. Despite what you say about TPS, it still looks more fluid than fast .



Thanks Mark. Its promising indeed. As I mentioned earlier it feels very odd as it is not how I have solved but going to keep working on it and see what all out TPS can do for me in Guildford.



h2f said:


> Indeed, nice solves.
> 
> I got 22 sub20 solves in a row. But camera wasnt on.



Thats great Grzegorz. Have you been trying similar in fast TPS mate?


----------



## h2f (Sep 16, 2016)

Selkie said:


> Thats great Grzegorz. Have you been trying similar in fast TPS mate?



I've focused on TPS 2 months ago and it let me finally to be sub20. Now I average low 19 and I try to keep balance between slow session practice and fast sessions.


----------



## Selkie (Sep 16, 2016)

h2f said:


> I've focused on TPS 2 months ago and it let me finally to be sub20. Now I average low 19 and I try to keep balance between slow session practice and fast sessions.



That Roux break has worked wonders for you Grzegorz from that back to CFOP and at that stage you were still averaging ~20+ weren't you?


----------



## h2f (Sep 16, 2016)

Yeah, Chris. I was ~20+ in the spring time and since late April I've focused on Roux. In first days of July I've back to CFOP and I broke sub20 and still slowly progressing. Roux let me also become dual color neutral though I do yellow cross only if the cross is easy. Most of them finish with nice times - I think today I got one 15 with yellow cross.


----------



## Jason Green (Sep 16, 2016)

JohnnyReggae said:


> I find at night after having a couple glasses of wine with the wife that fast solves are not going to happen, I spend the time doing slower solves concentrating solely on looking ahead. Although this can be difficult depending on the number of glasses of wine consumed ;-)



I don't drink until I'm done with practice for the night in general. Although sometimes after drinking some I'll decide to practice a bit more, but that practice "doesn't count". 



Selkie said:


> 12.77 PB Ao5 (previous was 12.91)
> 
> All out TPS ... and on film to be uploaded soon



Awesome stuff!


----------



## Selkie (Sep 17, 2016)

I agree gents and do not usually cube after a beer (or three). My lookahead falls of drastically after alcohol. Sometimes I might look at a new alg etc under the influence though


----------



## mark49152 (Sep 17, 2016)

Anyone tried beerBLD?


----------



## Selkie (Sep 17, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> Anyone tried beerBLD?


Is that like roman rooms memo but all pubs?


----------



## h2f (Sep 17, 2016)

I tried vodkaBLD and it doesnt work... 

I did ao5 - best on cam though not PB.


----------



## muchacho (Sep 17, 2016)

My try at being fast (sorry, video quality is bad). After seeing the solves I can't believe I'm that fast (well, I'm not, around 22.5 is what I average), it looks awful.

17.863, 23.206, 18.509, 17.959, 19.559 = 18.675








Spoiler



27095 17-sep-2016 16:55:40 00:19.559 R2 U' L2 B2 U2 L2 U' F2 D' F2 D2 R' F2 D2 F D' R D2 U L' D'
27094 17-sep-2016 16:55:01 00:17.959 F2 L2 B2 U2 L2 F2 D R2 D' B2 D' R' F2 L B L' B L' U L' U2
27093 17-sep-2016 16:54:18 00:18.509 R2 D2 R2 U R2 L2 F2 R2 L2 U R' B U2 L F' U' L2 U2 F R2 U2
27092 17-sep-2016 16:53:29 00:23.206 D2 R2 F2 R2 U' R2 F2 D2 U' L2 F D L' F R' F' R D2 U2 L'
27091 17-sep-2016 16:52:45 00:17.863 U' R2 D L2 B2 U' B2 F2 D2 U' R2 B U F' U2 R2 F L' D2 L' U


----------



## mafergut (Sep 17, 2016)

Selkie said:


> Don't ask about solve 4! Haha
> 
> Average of 5: 12.77
> 1. 12.79 F' L2 U2 R2 B2 F' D2 U2 L2 B L2 R U' F' D' B' F2 D L2 D
> ...


I have to take my hat off, sir! That's what I aim for but, to be honest I'll never get there.


----------



## newtonbase (Sep 17, 2016)

Alcohol seems to have a worse effect on my sighted solves than on 3BLD but that might just be my perception. We should do some in depth testing at Guildford (and the UKs etc...).


----------



## MarcelP (Sep 17, 2016)

h2f said:


> I tried vodkaBLD and it doesnt work...
> 
> I did ao5 - best on cam though not PB.


Pretty cool! Your solves must be very efficient because the times are great even with pauses. I see lot's of room for eliminating these pauses.



muchacho said:


> My try at being fast (sorry, video quality is bad). After seeing the solves I can't believe I'm that fast (well, I'm not, around 22.5 is what I average), it looks awful.
> 
> 17.863, 23.206, 18.509, 17.959, 19.559 = 18.675
> 
> ...


No matter what.. sub 19 average with Roux is impressive


----------



## h2f (Sep 17, 2016)

MarcelP said:


> Pretty cool! Your solves must be very efficient because the times are great even with pauses. I see lot's of room for eliminating these pauses.



Thanks. And yes, I see it too. Pauses hurt my eyes when I watch it. I must improve two things: cross and lookahead. Sometimes I do cross in 5 seconds and still I can finish sub20. On the other hand - I have a fast cross and finish over 20. So many things to make them better. 

I broke ao100 sub19 with 18.97.


----------



## Selkie (Sep 17, 2016)

h2f said:


> I tried vodkaBLD and it doesnt work...
> 
> I did ao5 - best on cam though not PB.



Lovely overage Grzegorz. Nothing wrong with your turnspeed either, seems effortless for you at that speed. Reduce the pauses and there is such great improvement to be had


----------



## Selkie (Sep 17, 2016)

@muchacho Nice average David, your pauses seem to be minimal and it is just me or is your L6E stage very fast!?

@newtonbase I think proper experimentation of BeerLD at UKC is unavoidable sir


----------



## h2f (Sep 17, 2016)

Selkie said:


> @muchacho Nice average David, your pauses seem to be minimal and it is just me or is your L6E stage very fast!?



Oh yeah, you're right - David's LSE is very decent. Nice average David!


----------



## muchacho (Sep 17, 2016)

Not really fast, but L6E was always my best step... but it won't improve much more now, it's hard to be efficient there, and I would need to fingertrick it differently.


----------



## newtonbase (Sep 17, 2016)

Selkie said:


> @newtonbase I think proper experimentation of BeerLD at UKC is unavoidable sir



Que sera sera. I shall embrace the inevitable.



Selkie said:


> Lovely *overage* Grzegorz.


Ha ha!


----------



## teacher77 (Sep 18, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> Get well soon @teacher77 in the meantime maybe try a bit of OH? I'm guessing it would be the wrong hand but it can help you understand the algs more.



Thanks ! It didn't take long to heal. I did a litte OH indeed but mostly slow untimed solved. Those must have helped because I broke my 10+-average PB 2-3 times since last week. Now down to 33.84 sec.

My single PB still is my 24.51 sec from august 26 though. Seems unbreakable now : although my averages go down, I find that all my times are driven towards the average. Probably because recognition time is longer with 30+ algs in mind than when I only knew a dozen, stopping me from performing as well on the cases I could solve fast back then.


----------



## newtonbase (Sep 18, 2016)

teacher77 said:


> Probably because recognition time is longer with 30+ algs in mind than when I only knew a dozen, stopping me from performing as well on the cases I could solve fast back then.


That's perfectly normal. You'll always slow down a bit after learning new stuff. The improvement is long term.


----------



## Jason Green (Sep 18, 2016)

I got my Weipo and GTS today. I filmed an unboxing but want to edit it because the kids were on there being crazy (I'll leave some but it was too long). The Weipo is definitely my main right away. My only other 2x2 was the Fangshi, it's fine but this one is quite nice. The GTS I am doubting at this point will replace my Yuexiao. I've only done 50 or so solves so far, but having a hard time getting my normal average. I like the feel, it's very light to turn and fast. I need to do one or two ao100 before I decide, although if I get through 50 and am a couple seconds above normal I'm not sure I can stomach finishing.  It does have a good chance of becoming my OH main I think.


----------



## Shaky Hands (Sep 18, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> Anyone tried beerBLD?





newtonbase said:


> Alcohol seems to have a worse effect on my sighted solves than on 3BLD but that might just be my perception. We should do some in depth testing at Guildford (and the UKs etc...).



I had a successful BeerBLD last night when a friend was visiting. A lot of background noise too.


----------



## muchacho (Sep 18, 2016)

I thought I was not going to get a sub-21 Mo100 any time soon, but I was wrong 

20.742 Mo100 (old was 21.221 from almost 1 month ago)

Maybe I should just do more solves, I'm "only" at around 60 solves per day for the last 6 weeks.



Spoiler



27234 18-sep-2016 14:53:18 00:19.247 B2 D F2 U' R2 U' L2 U2 F2 U' R2 B' L' U B' R D2 U' R2 F D2 U
27233 18-sep-2016 14:52:39 00:19.991 D2 R2 D B2 R2 D B2 U2 R2 B2 U2 B' D R' B2 U2 L' B F' R' F U
27232 18-sep-2016 14:51:54 00:16.774 D' R2 U' R2 D2 B2 R2 U F2 L2 F2 L F D B' D F' U F2 R2 U'
27231 18-sep-2016 14:51:09 00:22.246 D F2 D' B2 F2 U' R2 U' B2 L2 B' L2 U F R2 L F' D2 L F' U'
27230 18-sep-2016 14:50:12 00:24.374 F2 U L2 F2 R2 F2 U' B2 D F2 L2 F' U2 R' B D2 R F2 L' D' B' U2
27229 18-sep-2016 14:49:26 00:19.119 B2 D' B2 U F2 L2 B2 D' B2 D2 B2 R' B F' U' L U R F' D' F U2
27228 18-sep-2016 14:48:38 00:21.704 R2 D B2 D2 B2 U2 R2 U' R2 U R U R' B L2 D' R D' B D'
27227 18-sep-2016 14:47:57 00:20.631 U2 B2 D2 F2 R2 B2 L2 F2 D' L2 U' B' D' L' U2 L2 F D' R' U2 L U'
27226 18-sep-2016 14:47:20 00:17.415 F2 U' L2 F2 D R2 D R2 F2 R' B' F' U' F' L2 B' D' R2 U
27225 18-sep-2016 14:46:22 00:21.838 L2 F2 U' L2 D L2 B2 F2 D R2 B U B' F' L D' F U R' F U2
27224 18-sep-2016 14:45:43 00:16.680 D' L2 F2 R2 D' L2 B2 F2 U' L F2 L F2 D R' U B' U R2 U'
27223 18-sep-2016 14:45:02 00:21.646 D2 B2 D R2 D2 L2 U L2 U2 L2 B2 L B R' L F' U2 F D2 B2 D2
27222 18-sep-2016 14:43:55 00:25.662 F2 U2 R2 U' L2 F2 D2 U' R2 U2 L2 B L' F2 R B D B2 F2 R2 F
27221 18-sep-2016 14:43:15 00:17.815 U2 F2 D' R2 D B2 F2 D2 U' B2 U2 B F2 U R' D' R' U' L' F2 D
27220 18-sep-2016 14:42:31 00:21.206 D L2 F2 L2 F2 L2 D' U2 B2 U' B' D L B' L2 B' U2 L' D B'
27219 18-sep-2016 14:41:46 00:18.189 F2 D' R2 D R2 D' F2 R2 L2 D' L2 B F2 L' D R2 L' U' R' U'
27218 18-sep-2016 14:41:09 00:18.135 U' L2 U L2 D F2 D F2 R2 F2 R B2 F D R2 U B2 L' D2 U'
27217 18-sep-2016 14:40:31 00:17.695 U' F2 R2 U' B2 D2 B2 U B2 F2 U' F R2 L2 F2 D2 R' U L' F' U2
27216 18-sep-2016 14:39:50 00:23.183 R2 D R2 F2 U2 F2 D' L2 D' F2 U2 L' B U2 F' R2 U F2 R D2 R'
27215 18-sep-2016 14:39:05 00:20.190 U2 F2 R2 D2 U L2 D B2 D' R2 L2 F D R' L U F' U' B2 U L
27214 18-sep-2016 14:38:22 00:22.069 B2 L2 U' B2 L2 D' L2 F2 U' F2 D2 B' D2 B R B D' B2 U' R U'
27213 18-sep-2016 14:37:20 00:20.047 D' F2 D R2 B2 U L2 F2 D L2 U R D2 B F L2 U R2 B2 U2 B U'
27212 18-sep-2016 14:36:35 00:22.350 D B2 F2 U' R2 D' L2 U' R2 U2 B D' U2 F2 U' L' F U' F2 R' U'
27211 18-sep-2016 14:35:53 00:21.191 F2 U F2 D' B2 D2 F2 L2 D2 L2 U2 B' R' U R2 B L B2 U L2 F' D
27210 18-sep-2016 14:34:49 00:20.542 L2 U2 B2 R2 B2 U L2 D U2 L2 U2 R' F D2 L' F' D2 R' F2 D U'
27209 18-sep-2016 14:34:04 00:22.039 L2 F2 D' R2 U2 R2 U2 B2 U' F2 R2 B' L2 D2 L' F2 D' B' D F' D' U'
27208 18-sep-2016 14:33:25 00:18.096 L2 F2 R2 L2 U' L2 U2 L2 U' B2 D' F R B2 R D U' R' F2 R' U'
27207 18-sep-2016 14:32:43 00:20.783 D F2 R2 D L2 U B2 D F2 R2 U2 B' L' U' B' R2 U R2 F D L2 D'
27206 18-sep-2016 14:32:00 00:21.543 F2 L2 D U2 B2 L2 U' R2 B2 L2 U' L F L B D U2 F R' D U
27205 18-sep-2016 14:31:18 00:19.887 F2 U2 L2 U B2 F2 D U2 B2 R2 D' B' D U' R B U' L B2 D' F2 D'
27204 18-sep-2016 14:30:37 00:19.438 B2 D' B2 F2 U B2 U' L2 B2 L2 D2 R' B2 D B2 R B F' L B2 D L
27203 18-sep-2016 14:29:55 00:20.088 D L2 U B2 U' F2 L2 U R2 U' R2 B D' U' R2 L' B' D' F' L2 F2
27202 18-sep-2016 14:29:10 00:24.151 B2 U2 F2 D R2 U L2 D U2 F2 L F2 U B' D B2 L B D2 L2
27201 18-sep-2016 14:28:29 00:19.318 U2 F2 L2 B2 U' L2 U2 L2 B2 D2 L2 F' D' R L2 B F2 L2 F R2 U
27200 18-sep-2016 14:27:48 00:19.486 F2 L2 D' L2 U B2 D F2 R2 L2 D2 F' R L' U2 B' L U' R2 U B'
27199 18-sep-2016 14:27:01 00:23.926 R2 U L2 U2 B2 U B2 U' B2 F2 U' L D' R' L2 U R B F2 D F2
27198 18-sep-2016 14:26:19 00:19.062 B2 R2 U B2 U2 F2 U2 R2 D R2 D B R2 U B L' U R B F U
27197 18-sep-2016 14:25:42 00:19.391 L2 D2 B2 U' R2 U R2 D F2 D' U' L' U R2 F L2 D' U L2 B2 R'
27196 18-sep-2016 14:24:55 00:28.703 U' L2 U F2 D F2 U' F2 U L2 B2 L D' B' D R' F R2 L2 U R'
27195 18-sep-2016 14:24:12 00:18.399 D' F2 R2 U B2 U R2 D' U2 F2 D' R B' F2 R2 D2 L2 D2 U' B' D R
27194 18-sep-2016 14:23:35 00:17.383 U R2 U' R2 B2 D' B2 F2 D' R2 B2 L' B U R' B2 R2 D2 F' R' F' U2
27193 18-sep-2016 14:22:55 00:22.158 U2 F2 U' B2 L2 U B2 D' L2 B2 U2 F' R' D' U' L B' U' F2 U L
27192 18-sep-2016 14:22:12 00:20.616 R2 F2 D R2 D2 L2 U2 B2 R2 U' R2 B' L' U2 F L' B' U F' R' B'
27191 18-sep-2016 14:21:34 00:20.454 L2 D' R2 D' F2 D2 U B2 L2 D2 F2 R' L' F' L' B D R' U2 L' B D'
27190 18-sep-2016 14:20:53 00:19.080 U B2 F2 L2 U2 F2 U' B2 L2 D B' R' B2 R2 U' L2 B' R B2 D
27189 18-sep-2016 14:20:16 00:17.943 L2 U2 F2 D B2 R2 F2 U' F2 D' U2 B R2 D L' F R' F R' L' D2
27188 18-sep-2016 14:19:35 00:18.959 R2 D2 L2 D' B2 D' B2 L2 D B2 U2 B D L' U' B' L B2 R2 U2 L D2
27187 18-sep-2016 14:18:47 00:20.239 B2 L2 U F2 U2 L2 F2 D R2 U R2 B' R L B F' R2 F' U B'
27186 18-sep-2016 14:17:58 00:26.223 L2 B2 D B2 D L2 B2 D' F2 R2 B2 R' B' U2 R2 F2 L B R' U2 L2
27185 18-sep-2016 14:17:14 00:17.286 L2 F2 L2 B2 D' L2 D' F2 D2 L2 U' R' F U2 L2 U2 L' D' R' F2 U'
27184 18-sep-2016 14:16:27 00:24.086 B2 R2 U' R2 D2 R2 L2 B2 U' R2 B2 L' F2 D U' F' L F2 U R F U2
27183 18-sep-2016 14:15:22 00:24.094 B2 U B2 F2 U F2 D L2 U' F2 U' B' D' U' B L D F2 R' U' F' D2
27182 18-sep-2016 13:52:36 00:22.405 U' R2 U B2 F2 D' B2 F2 L2 D2 F D U2 F2 D L D' F2 R' F' U2
27181 18-sep-2016 13:51:56 00:20.270 R2 U' L2 D B2 U B2 R2 B2 D' R' L' U' B D' F' D2 U R2
27180 18-sep-2016 13:51:19 00:20.519 D2 F2 U' R2 B2 L2 U B2 R2 U2 R2 B U2 L U' B2 R' D2 F D' L U'
27179 18-sep-2016 13:50:39 00:18.127 L2 D2 L2 U' B2 F2 U R2 D' R' B2 D' R' D' F D R2 L' D'
27178 18-sep-2016 13:49:55 00:22.950 B2 U L2 U R2 D' R2 F2 U B2 D F L B F' U F2 U2 F L2 U'
27177 18-sep-2016 13:49:04 00:25.557 L2 D2 U R2 L2 F2 D2 U B2 L2 B U2 F' U' F L' D L2 B' D2 L'
27176 18-sep-2016 13:48:25 00:20.471 D B2 F2 D' F2 U L2 U2 L2 U2 F R F2 L' B' D' U' R U B' U'
27175 18-sep-2016 13:47:22 00:20.839 R2 U' L2 U2 F2 R2 B2 U2 F2 U2 L' F R L D L B U' F2 L2 U
27174 18-sep-2016 13:46:40 00:17.645 B2 F2 L2 D B2 D2 U' B2 D B2 L2 F B2 U R D' B' D R' B R
27173 18-sep-2016 13:46:02 00:21.512 B2 R2 U2 L2 D' R2 D F2 D' F2 R2 F B2 R B' U F R' L2 F2 L' U'
27172 18-sep-2016 13:45:21 00:21.231 D2 B2 R2 B2 U R2 D L2 U2 B2 R' D L F L B' D' U2 L D U'
27171 18-sep-2016 13:44:42 00:20.751 R2 F2 L2 U B2 D' R2 D R2 F' L B R2 L D' R' L2 U2 B2
27170 18-sep-2016 13:44:01 00:17.048 D F2 U' F2 D L2 F2 U2 F2 U L2 F U' R L' F2 L2 D' B2 L'
27169 18-sep-2016 13:43:20 00:20.871 U2 F2 L2 U2 B2 R2 U' F2 D B2 D B' D2 R' F' R B U' B R' L2 D2
27168 18-sep-2016 13:42:40 00:19.670 U R2 F2 U' B2 F2 U R2 D2 B2 R D F U R U2 B2 F2 L D2 U
27167 18-sep-2016 13:42:03 00:17.831 D B2 R2 D' U2 R2 B2 R2 L2 U B' U2 L' D L' B' D' L U R2
27166 18-sep-2016 13:41:20 00:22.503 B2 D' L2 D' R2 L2 D2 B2 R2 L2 D' B L' D F2 R' L U' L2 F' R'
27165 18-sep-2016 13:40:37 00:20.302 D2 R2 U L2 D' L2 U' B2 D2 R2 F2 L' B' L' F2 L' F2 U R F R2 U'
27164 18-sep-2016 13:39:50 00:20.182 D2 R2 F2 L2 B2 D B2 R2 D2 L2 D R' L2 B2 F' L U2 F' R2 B2 U2
27163 18-sep-2016 13:38:23 00:18.759 R2 F2 U R2 L2 U F2 L2 D U F2 R' D L2 B2 U' F' U2 L2 U'
27162 18-sep-2016 13:37:27 00:33.335 U2 B2 R2 L2 D' B2 U' F2 R2 L2 U2 F' R L2 D F2 L F2 U R U
27161 18-sep-2016 13:36:46 00:19.969 R2 D B2 D' R2 U2 B2 R2 F2 D L2 F L' B2 R B2 F2 L2 B' U' F' D
27160 18-sep-2016 13:35:34 00:18.870 L2 B2 D2 B2 D2 L2 D' L2 B2 R2 D2 B' R2 L U B' R2 L' B2 D2 U L'
27159 18-sep-2016 13:34:48 00:20.574 L2 U2 F2 U L2 U R2 D' L2 D L2 B R' U2 R' D2 L' F R U' L'
27158 18-sep-2016 13:33:45 00:19.079 D' F2 D' F2 L2 B2 U L2 B2 U2 F2 R' D2 L D' F' L2 U' R' B' D2 L
27157 18-sep-2016 13:32:53 00:31.078 R2 D B2 U F2 D' L2 U' F2 L2 F2 R' U F R' F L2 D' B L' B2 U'
27156 18-sep-2016 13:32:07 00:22.351 U2 L2 D2 U' R2 U R2 L2 U F2 U' L' B' R B' R2 D' F' U R2 L2
27155 18-sep-2016 13:31:17 00:24.470 L2 D F2 D R2 U2 R2 D R2 F2 U2 R' F2 U2 L' F' U2 F2 D2 L' B D'
27154 18-sep-2016 13:29:53 00:24.079 B2 U' B2 U2 B2 U' F2 U' F2 U' L2 F' R' B' D R2 L2 B2 L B L2
27153 18-sep-2016 13:29:08 00:23.476 F2 L2 U L2 D' B2 U F2 R2 D R U L B' L D U' B L F L'
27152 18-sep-2016 13:28:29 00:18.727 D2 L2 F2 R2 F2 U L2 U2 L2 B2 U2 L B' D2 R D2 F' L2 U F L2 U'
27151 18-sep-2016 13:27:15 00:18.511 U L2 F2 R2 L2 D' B2 R2 U L2 D' R' L' D L U' B' D B F' D' U
27150 18-sep-2016 13:26:24 00:21.350 U F2 R2 B2 R2 L2 U2 R2 U R2 U' L' U L2 B R' D' B L F D' L
27149 18-sep-2016 13:25:43 00:15.735 U2 R2 F2 D B2 U2 L2 F2 L2 B2 U' R' U B F2 L U2 L' U B' U2
27148 18-sep-2016 13:25:00 00:19.767 R2 D2 B2 U' B2 L2 U' L2 D R2 U2 F' D' U2 F R2 L' D' B2 L F2 U2
27147 18-sep-2016 13:24:16 00:16.559 R2 D2 L2 D F2 U R2 F2 L2 D2 B2 R' D' L' F U2 R U' R D'
27146 18-sep-2016 13:23:37 00:21.832 U' L2 U' R2 B2 U' F2 L2 F2 R2 U B' R L2 F' R2 B' U L F U
27145 18-sep-2016 13:22:28 00:20.886 U R2 D F2 R2 L2 D2 L2 D' F2 L2 F' R' B' U F2 R' D2 L' D2 U
27144 18-sep-2016 13:21:48 00:20.887 B2 F2 D2 L2 D F2 D' L2 D L2 U' B R B L2 B D F L D'
27143 18-sep-2016 13:21:03 00:15.455 D2 L2 D2 R2 B2 L2 D L2 U R2 U' F R' D' B' L2 U R L2 D2 R2
27142 18-sep-2016 13:20:22 00:18.246 L2 U2 L2 U B2 L2 D' F2 U R2 L2 F R' U2 F2 U' R2 B' D B' F2
27141 18-sep-2016 13:19:33 00:24.853 L2 F2 D R2 D2 R2 U' L2 D R2 U' L' D U R' D' F R' U2 R' D U'
27140 18-sep-2016 13:18:50 00:23.342 D' U2 B2 L2 B2 F2 L2 D' B2 F2 U2 L' D' R2 B R2 B D2 B' L2 U2
27139 18-sep-2016 13:18:10 00:19.080 L2 B2 D B2 U' B2 R2 U' F2 R2 U' L' F2 R2 L2 U2 F' R' F U'
27138 18-sep-2016 13:17:26 00:16.087 U R2 U' L2 D' R2 U F2 D' F2 U' L' F R' U2 L2 U R2 B' F L F'
27137 18-sep-2016 13:16:45 00:20.575 L2 U' B2 U2 R2 U' F2 R2 U' L2 U2 R F L2 F' L' U B R' L2 F' U
27136 18-sep-2016 13:15:59 00:25.741 U R2 L2 D B2 D U2 F2 U F2 U' F R' B' L' B2 R2 D L' U B
27135 18-sep-2016 13:15:15 00:17.095 B2 D2 F2 U' F2 U' B2 L2 D U2 B' D2 F' R L B L F D


----------



## h2f (Sep 18, 2016)

Finally I got a nice singe fullstep. Though when I did a reconstruction I'm surpriesed I had a good time - theres so many rotations in it.


----------



## newtonbase (Sep 18, 2016)

I was asked to do a blind solve by a 7yo at a kid's birthday party today but I bottled it. They got a regular solve instead. The thought of making a dozen 7/8 year olds wait 2 mins for the action to start with no guarantee of a result filled me with dread. 
The nice part was my daughter bragging about my ranking - though it sounds a lot better than it actually is.


----------



## mark49152 (Sep 18, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> The thought of making a dozen 7/8 year olds wait 2 mins for the action to start with no guarantee of a result filled me with dread.


Yeah I know. I have only been asked once, and luckily it was OK. I started memo while people were still talking and did it slowly and thoroughly since they'd forgotten I was even doing it. Then when I started execution, someone said "look he's started" and I took that quite slowly too, since it still looks fast to non-cubers and I really did not want a DNF .


----------



## teacher77 (Sep 18, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> That's perfectly normal. You'll always slow down a bit after learning new stuff. The improvement is long term.



Well as I said, my averages are still going down. Slowly but surely approaching 30 sec. So I'd say I'm seeing improvement right now. It's only in individual solves that I see less "very low" times.


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## mafergut (Sep 18, 2016)

In the end I could not record any good averages today, nothing below mid 17s (Ao5) anyway. I had what would have probably been CN full step PB on orange cross but botched a fat sune OLL and ended up with a high 15.xx. Got a bit mad about it.


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## SenorJuan (Sep 18, 2016)

If it's OK to tell about how hitting thumbs with hammers is bad for solving, it's going to be OK to recount this mishap.
I've just got out of hospital after a car smashed into me while I was cycling. My multiple skull fractures have given me a sore head, vision problems, plus the general lack of any sleep while in hospital, combined with a beat-up body from head to azz have sure messed up my solves. At least the stopwatch might give a guide to my recovery process.

But prior to becoming a news article on the local paper's online edition (I'll spare the link) I had been enjoying my new mirrorblocks. Of interest to Mark Newt On Base, my best sighted solve has been 1m13s, and I've had two decent unsighted solves of 3m47 and 4m00 which I'm pleased with.
The down side of m-b occurs when you go back to a regular cube, and it looks loud, gaudy and confusing.


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## newtonbase (Sep 19, 2016)

SenorJuan said:


> If it's OK to tell about how hitting thumbs with hammers is bad for solving, it's going to be OK to recount this mishap.
> I've just got out of hospital after a car smashed into me while I was cycling. My multiple skull fractures have given me a sore head, vision problems, plus the general lack of any sleep while in hospital, combined with a beat-up body from head to azz have sure messed up my solves. At least the stopwatch might give a guide to my recovery process.
> 
> But prior to becoming a news article on the local paper's online edition (I'll spare the link) I had been enjoying my new mirrorblocks. Of interest to Mark Newt On Base, my best sighted solve has been 1m13s, and I've had two decent unsighted solves of 3m47 and 4m00 which I'm pleased with.
> The down side of m-b occurs when you go back to a regular cube, and it looks loud, gaudy and confusing.


That's not how you want to get your 15 minutes of fame. I hope you are on the road to recovery. Will we be seeing you at a competition soon?


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## MarcelP (Sep 19, 2016)

h2f said:


> I broke ao100 sub19 with 18.97.


We are in the same leaque now! You go past me on your next competition  Good stuff man! That 13.88 single on camera was awesome too! Where is the reconstruction?


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## h2f (Sep 19, 2016)

MarcelP said:


> We are in the same leaque now! You go past me on your next competition  Good stuff man! That 13.88 single on camera was awesome too! Where is the reconstruction?



Thanks. I hope sub20 next comp but we will see. I'm far behind you. 

Reconstruction in line but I put in here:

Scramble: D' L B2 R2 B2 F2 R B2 R' D2 R2 B2 F L2 D R D U2 L D
x2 y'
U' F' R' F' //cross
U' R U' R' U y' R' U' R
y' U R' U' R
U' R U R' U' y L U L'
y' R U R'
U' L U F' U' L' U L F L' //OLL 32
U R U R' F' R U R' U' R' F R2 U' R' //Jb

alg.cubing.net

TPS 51/13.88 = 3,67.


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## muchacho (Sep 19, 2016)

SenorJuan said:


> If it's OK to tell about how hitting thumbs with hammers is bad for solving, it's going to be OK to recount this mishap.
> I've just got out of hospital after a car smashed into me while I was cycling. My multiple skull fractures have given me a sore head, vision problems, plus the general lack of any sleep while in hospital, combined with a beat-up body from head to azz have sure messed up my solves. At least the stopwatch might give a guide to my recovery process.
> 
> But prior to becoming a news article on the local paper's online edition (I'll spare the link) I had been enjoying my new mirrorblocks. Of interest to Mark Newt On Base, my best sighted solve has been 1m13s, and I've had two decent unsighted solves of 3m47 and 4m00 which I'm pleased with.
> The down side of m-b occurs when you go back to a regular cube, and it looks loud, gaudy and confusing.


Wow, get well soon!


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## mafergut (Sep 19, 2016)

@SenorJuan I'm so sorry to hear that. I hope you are soon back in good shape. I've become so scared of bicycles that mine has not left the garage in months. I just do spinning now.


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## h2f (Sep 19, 2016)

SenorJuan said:


> If it's OK to tell about how hitting thumbs with hammers is bad for solving, it's going to be OK to recount this mishap.
> I've just got out of hospital after a car smashed into me while I was cycling. My multiple skull fractures have given me a sore head, vision problems, plus the general lack of any sleep while in hospital, combined with a beat-up body from head to azz have sure messed up my solves. At least the stopwatch might give a guide to my recovery process.
> 
> But prior to becoming a news article on the local paper's online edition (I'll spare the link) I had been enjoying my new mirrorblocks. Of interest to Mark Newt On Base, my best sighted solve has been 1m13s, and I've had two decent unsighted solves of 3m47 and 4m00 which I'm pleased with.
> The down side of m-b occurs when you go back to a regular cube, and it looks loud, gaudy and confusing.



I hope you will be fine very soon.


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## Logiqx (Sep 19, 2016)

SenorJuan said:


> If it's OK to tell about how hitting thumbs with hammers is bad for solving, it's going to be OK to recount this mishap.
> I've just got out of hospital after a car smashed into me while I was cycling. My multiple skull fractures have given me a sore head, vision problems, plus the general lack of any sleep while in hospital, combined with a beat-up body from head to azz have sure messed up my solves. At least the stopwatch might give a guide to my recovery process.
> 
> But prior to becoming a news article on the local paper's online edition (I'll spare the link) I had been enjoying my new mirrorblocks. Of interest to Mark Newt On Base, my best sighted solve has been 1m13s, and I've had two decent unsighted solves of 3m47 and 4m00 which I'm pleased with.
> The down side of m-b occurs when you go back to a regular cube, and it looks loud, gaudy and confusing.


Get well Sune.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk


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## Logiqx (Sep 19, 2016)

I have fnally caught up after the best part of a week off from this thread.

Not a lot of dedicated practice over the past week due to holiday and QT with the missus but an OK session on the train this morning. A mid-17's average of 20 with a couple of full step 13s when I was focused. Timing in full view of other passenger seems like a decent way of replicating comp nerves, lol.

Looking forward to seeing you guys in Guildford. 

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk


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## SenorJuan (Sep 19, 2016)

Many thanks for all the good wishes, folks. Until 5 minutes ago I was dozing contentedly, but now some workman with an "Irishman's motorbike" ( pneumatic road-pick / Kango Hammer ) is digging up the pavement just 20 metres from my house and the noise is pretty awful when you have a sore head. Grrrr..

And Mark: I ought to make the effort to go to another competition soon, but I've not really done a lot of practice; personal problems, family tragedy, are all taking up my time. I've barely touched the 4x4 since Christmas, I've not found the urge to get good at 2-handed 3x3, the Sq-1 was fun when I got it 15 yrs ago and worked out a solution, but I've never tried proper speedsolving on it. I own a skewb (and skewb ultimate) but dislike them, so chances of me competing are zero.


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## muchacho (Sep 19, 2016)

Unofficial comp done, (there may be a video of the solves) I think it was a 26.16 average, not good, but enough for second place, apparently there is a 12 seconds solver but he didn't come. Since there were not many people (19) we did 5 solves instead of the planned 3, and also 2x2 as an even less official event (I did around 8.5, not with my cube, on first solve colors confused me, on the second one it popped). Comp slightly better organized than last year.


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## Logiqx (Sep 19, 2016)

Since there is a competition coming up, I decided to do a timed session this lunchtime.

I'm kind of inconsistent but there was a nice Ao12 (16.227) and Ao25 (16.727).

I need to figure out how to generate the same level of focus on demand!

Title: 3x3x3 Cube
Scrambler: 3x3x3 Simple
Session: 36
# of solving: 40
# of penalty: 0
# of DNF: 0
Std Dev: 1.507
Best of all: 14.130
Worst of all: 22.720
Average of all: 17.355
Best Avg of 5: 15.796
*Best Avg of 12: 16.229
Best Avg of 25: 16.727*



Spoiler



---- Generated by KingEn Timer v3.3

Solving times: 17.221 17.416 22.160 22.720 18.966 17.427 17.416 15.964 17.858 17.277 16.450 15.530 14.130 21.004 17.886 17.476 15.235 16.768 18.369 16.190 14.134 16.245 18.369 17.354 14.745 15.756 15.721 15.912 17.683 20.080 20.624 17.950 16.682 15.357 16.742 17.653 17.142 20.635 18.496 17.203

Times and Scrambles:
1. 17.221 (Inspection: 48.538) Date: 2016-09-19 13:25:05
B' U2 R U' B2 U D' R F' L' R' F' D' B' D' F L R B2 F D2 L' D' U2 B

2. 17.416 (Inspection: 1:00.132) Date: 2016-09-19 13:24:16
L B L B2 R2 D' F D2 R F U' F2 D B2 R L2 U' R B2 F' D R F2 B L'

3. 22.160 (Inspection: 46.747) Date: 2016-09-19 13:23:21
B2 F2 L D' R2 U R2 D B F2 L' U F' R L2 D F2 R' L' B' D' B' F' L2 F2

4. 22.720 (Inspection: 56.381) Date: 2016-09-19 13:22:35
F2 U B2 D' B U' B D' L' R F L2 R U F B2 U' L2 D2 L B R' B2 U2 B'

5. 18.966 (Inspection: 51.816) Date: 2016-09-19 13:21:35
B2 U2 B2 U' L' U D R U D' L R2 F U B L' F2 U R' U2 L U L' U2 L2

6. 17.427 (Inspection: 40.839) Date: 2016-09-19 13:20:41
B F D2 B2 R' F B2 R2 F U' D L B' R' U' L D2 U B2 D B2 D2 U B D'

7. 17.416 (Inspection: 39.797) Date: 2016-09-19 13:20:00
F' L U F' B2 U2 F' D' R2 F U L2 F R U D F L D' B' L F2 R2 U B2

8. 15.964 (Inspection: 48.480) Date: 2016-09-19 13:19:19
R2 B2 R' U F' R' U2 L2 F R' D B' D U2 B' D' R' L' U2 D' F2 L2 R B' L

9. 17.858 (Inspection: 33.484) Date: 2016-09-19 13:18:33
B' D B' R F' B' L' R2 U2 B R U' R' D U B2 R L' D2 R2 U2 R2 U D2 R'

10. 17.277 (Inspection: 47.646) Date: 2016-09-19 13:17:59
B' D' R' F' R' L' U' L' R' F2 B L B L2 D' B' U F R' F' R2 B' R2 U' R'

11. 16.450 (Inspection: 41.950) Date: 2016-09-19 13:17:10
D R2 D U' B R L U F' U' R' F2 R' F' R2 B' U L2 U' R' B2 U' L2 U' L

12. 15.530 (Inspection: 41.788) Date: 2016-09-19 13:16:27
R2 B D' B F' R D R2 L B' D2 R U2 L' R2 B D' B2 R D' F' D' F2 B2 U'

13. 14.130 (Inspection: 38.407) Date: 2016-09-19 13:15:44
L2 U' L' R F2 L B R B F2 U2 B U2 D F' B D B2 D' U' R2 D2 R' F2 D2

14. 21.004 (Inspection: 40.835) Date: 2016-09-19 13:15:13
D L' D U' R2 U R U' L B F2 U2 L D2 R U D B' L2 D F2 L' U' D2 R2

15. 17.886 (Inspection: 43.160) Date: 2016-09-19 13:14:29
U2 D2 L B R' U' B R2 L2 F2 R2 L' F' R U L' U2 L D2 F2 B2 U R L' D'

16. 17.476 (Inspection: 59.118) Date: 2016-09-19 13:13:45
U2 D R L2 D U F' B' D L2 R2 F2 R' B2 D F2 U2 B U B2 U B' L2 R2 U

17. 15.235 (Inspection: 52.146) Date: 2016-09-19 13:12:44
L2 U B' R2 B' D L U D2 B' D' F' R D B U' D2 L2 B D' L2 F L2 F D'

18. 16.768 (Inspection: 39.548) Date: 2016-09-19 13:11:53
D F' U2 D' R' F U' D R' B R' F D' F2 D L2 F' B L2 D B L2 D2 F' L'

19. 18.369 (Inspection: 35.266) Date: 2016-09-19 13:11:15
F2 B L F2 B' L' U L2 B R F B D2 L R U D2 B2 L2 D R2 B2 R' L B2

20. 16.190 (Inspection: 44.553) Date: 2016-09-19 13:10:38
D2 B2 F2 L R2 U' F2 B' R2 D2 U2 R' B F2 L2 B U B' D R' D F2 B' R' U

21. 14.134 (Inspection: 39.990) Date: 2016-09-19 13:09:51
U' R' B' L F B' R2 F B R2 L B' F' D' B' L' D' L' R2 D' L2 D B2 R F2

22. 16.245 (Inspection: 39.252) Date: 2016-09-19 13:09:13
R' D' L2 D' B' L2 B' R D R' B' D' R2 F2 U' F' U2 F2 U2 L' D' B2 L R2 U

23. 18.369 (Inspection: 43.380) Date: 2016-09-19 13:08:36
F' L' R U F L' F' D2 B2 F' U2 R L' B2 R' L2 B U' B R' F' B' D F' L

24. 17.354 (Inspection: 47.912) Date: 2016-09-19 13:07:52
R F' B2 U L F2 R' U' L' B2 F2 R' U B' D L2 B L' R2 F B U2 B2 U' B'

25. 14.745 (Inspection: 44.734) Date: 2016-09-19 13:06:02
L' R2 F' B D' B R' D U F B2 L' U2 L R2 B' F2 L' U' D' L' U2 F L U

26. 15.756 (Inspection: 51.408) Date: 2016-09-19 13:04:35
B' U B2 R2 F2 B U' F' U2 D' R' L U L' D' L' U2 R U' D2 R' U' B L2 F'

27. 15.721 (Inspection: 56.018) Date: 2016-09-19 13:02:38
B2 U2 L D' U R2 B2 D' L2 D L' F R' F2 B R' L' F R L' B D2 R F2 R'

28. 15.912 (Inspection: 1:01.116) Date: 2016-09-19 13:01:42
B D F L2 R2 F2 L' U' L D2 R B' L' B2 F R2 F2 R L B' U L' R2 F U'

29. 17.683 (Inspection: 44.671) Date: 2016-09-19 13:00:43
B' F D U2 R2 F2 L' B' F L D2 L2 D L B' R L2 F U B L' F2 B2 L' R

30. 20.080 (Inspection: 41.727) Date: 2016-09-19 12:58:11
D' B' L' R2 F' R D F2 L' B D2 F2 U2 D' R U' D2 L' R2 F D B' U2 F2 D

31. 20.624 (Inspection: 47.605) Date: 2016-09-19 12:57:30
F2 R2 L2 D2 U R' F' U2 R B U D2 R2 L F' R2 L2 U' L D' R2 U' L F B

32. 17.950 (Inspection: 36.281) Date: 2016-09-19 12:54:57
B' F' R2 U' L' B F D' R' D' B2 R L B' R2 U2 B2 D2 L B L' U2 L2 R' D

33. 16.682 (Inspection: 1:00.314) Date: 2016-09-19 12:54:20
F2 B2 U R' L F2 B' L F R2 F L2 U' D' B' D2 L2 U B R' B' U F2 L B2

34. 15.357 (Inspection: 34.546) Date: 2016-09-19 12:52:33
F U2 L U2 F' U' L' R' F2 U' L2 D U' F' U' F U2 B2 L R' U L2 F2 B2 D'

35. 16.742 (Inspection: 42.256) Date: 2016-09-19 12:52:00
U2 L U2 F' B D2 B2 U' B2 L2 B' R' B2 R D U2 L U2 F' U B' D' R' F2 B2

36. 17.653 (Inspection: 49.621) Date: 2016-09-19 12:51:19
B' U2 B2 U2 F' B L' D' F2 D' U2 F' D' R2 U D2 B2 D2 U' R U F2 R' L2 B

37. 17.142 (Inspection: 47.551) Date: 2016-09-19 12:49:56
F D' L' D U2 B' L2 F D' L2 F2 B2 L R' F L B R D2 B U2 R U D R'

38. 20.635 (Inspection: 38.471) Date: 2016-09-19 12:49:12
L F2 R U2 F' D2 R' D F L2 R' D2 B L2 B' U' L B L2 D2 R B2 L2 D F

39. 18.496 (Inspection: 36.277) Date: 2016-09-19 12:48:32
B F R' F R2 F2 L' U B2 R' B' L' F2 D' L' B2 U L' U2 D' L' B' R F D'

40. 17.203 (Inspection: 49.587) Date: 2016-09-19 12:47:54
F U' D B F' L R2 D' B2 R D' F' U' F L U' D B' R2 L' B' L R U2 D



Edit: No video so it may not have happened.


----------



## Selkie (Sep 19, 2016)

@Jason Green - I look forward to watching the unboxing.

@Shaky Hands - I guess successful BLDs with distraction noise are really great. Beer fueled too sir cannot be bad 

@muchacho - Half a second improvement in a month when you are sub 20 is epic. Well done 

@h2f - Nice single Grzegorz. So much potential to be fast with your turning style too 

@SenorJuan - Ouch that sounds very nasty. Hope you are on the mend soon

@Logiqx - "Get well sune" haha, love it. See you in Guildford on the Sunday. Also real consistence on that session 

------

In practice for Guildford now and because I am only attending on the Sunday its mainly down to Megaminx, 3x3 and 5x5. Managed to get my first sub 2 minute average of 5 on 5x5 and on film which I am happy about...

Average of 5: 1:58.27


Spoiler



1. (2:06.45) b2 r' D' d' b2 r' D' l' d2 r' B2 b' F' f r2 F L B F' U2 L' F u2 D2 l2 d r U' D R r2 B u' f2 l' r' U R' b L2 f l b2 F2 L r' F f2 D2 L R d2 l2 b2 d b D' F' L f 
2. (1:49.49) r2 B' d2 B2 R B2 u r' U' r' D' R b L2 F' u2 b2 u2 B' F' b d2 U2 R F2 L f' b l' f b' F2 u' r2 f U d' u2 D2 r' f' r b f2 B2 l2 f2 r' u B' f' F b d' D' l2 L' b2 r2 F 
3. 2:05.06 d2 u R' f' U' b F2 r' f U R2 d' R u r' D' B' u' L' u' F' D2 b' R f' F' L' r2 B d U R' D' B r f2 B2 l L2 r' U2 r F2 d F B U B2 u' F' f' r' f' L' D R U D d f 
4. 1:54.89 B' r' U2 d' u2 l2 F2 u2 B b' L2 r2 R2 D2 L' D' b' R2 L b2 f' R2 F' U' l2 F B' r' d R L' B2 r2 f2 r F2 l r R f B L' u' F' d u2 F' l2 U l D' d u2 L' b' l2 d2 U' l2 b2 
5. 1:54.85 r' d r2 F' d' f U' B2 l2 b' d2 U' L2 r b R2 r' d2 f2 D2 f2 U' r l2 R' b' F d' l2 F' u' r d u R2 U2 R r' f' b U' D2 r' B' l b2 f2 d' l B b l R2 B2 L2 b f' R r' L


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## MarcelP (Sep 19, 2016)

Logiqx said:


> Edit: No video so it may not have happened.



LOL!  I am nowhere near these 16 averages btw


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## Selkie (Sep 19, 2016)

Sorry, double post but the last one was getting a bit busy. Anyone seen the solves by Felik's and Kevin Hayes on the prototype MoYu Weishi 6x6. The main thing for me is they have both said how stable it it. Cannot wait to get my hands on one!


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## Logiqx (Sep 19, 2016)

Logiqx said:


> Get well Sune.



Edit: Get well R U R' U R U2 R'



Selkie said:


> Sorry, double post but the last one was getting a bit busy. Anyone seen the solves by Felik's and Kevin Hayes on the prototype MoYu Weishi 6x6. The main thing for me is they have both said how stable it it. Cannot wait to get my hands on one!



Yes. I want one as well!


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## muchacho (Sep 19, 2016)

In the first solve the timer didn't cooperate, in the 3rd one I messed up the CMLL alg and in the 4th I did not the appropiate alg. Cold hands because cold, and no lookahead because it was a comp.

1. 28.77
2. 25.31
3. 38.12
4. 24.21
5. 24.48

Ao5: 26.19


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## Jason Green (Sep 19, 2016)

Hope you're better soon @SenorJuan, sounds scary!


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## Shaky Hands (Sep 19, 2016)

Selkie said:


> @Shaky Hands - I guess successful BLDs with distraction noise are really great. Beer fueled too sir cannot be bad



I felt I had to give it a go as I didn't want visitors thinking that me having a blindfold in my living room was for anything kinky!  Like when Mark did his solve in front of guests, I spent a long time on memo.

Nice 5x5 average Chris. I got 5x5 PB's earlier of Ao5: 3:05.33, Ao12: 3:08.70 and Ao25: 3:15.61, so am slowly burning some seconds away on my solve times. That's about 2 minutes less than when you last saw me solve a 5x5 at Exeter. It's definitely my favourite puzzle right now.


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## mafergut (Sep 19, 2016)

Selkie said:


> Sorry, double post but the last one was getting a bit busy. Anyone seen the solves by Felik's and Kevin Hayes on the prototype MoYu Weishi 6x6. The main thing for me is they have both said how stable it it. Cannot wait to get my hands on one!


Oh no! I don't think I have done more than 30-40 solves on my Yuxin and here comes Moyu with something better... I ain't buyin' this one, I promise...


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## JanW (Sep 19, 2016)

I'm still considering attending a comp about 2½ months from now. Not sure which events I should compete in. 3x3, 3bld and some small Mbld attempt are givens, other than that, I'd need to learn some new stuff.

I don't really know anything about 2x2, I've only solved it with 3x3 algs so far. If I want to get a semi-decent time 2 months from now, which technique should I look into? Most of my practice will still be 3x3 and bld, and learning more OLL, so I'd prefer something that doesn't require 50 new algs.

How about Skewb? I solved it a couple of times with the very beginner method, the one that spams sledgehammers, but forgot all about it already. What would be the next step there? I know I would get bored with the beginners method immediately and can't bother to practice that...

4x4 I "know" Hoya. But I've forgotten the parity algs again... I really should practice these other cubes every now and then.


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## muchacho (Sep 19, 2016)

Skewb would be the fastest to learn and get decent times, it's a lot about spamming sledgehammers (even the intermediate variation).
http://sarah.cubing.net/skewb/my-method#section/beginners-variation

Pyraminx should be easy too, I suppose.

Ortega for 2x2 is not that difficult.


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## mark49152 (Sep 19, 2016)

@JanW, definitely Ortega (aka Varasano) for 2x2. Then I would say shoot for 4x4. Parity is only two algs, and there's so much more depth to the event.


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## JanW (Sep 19, 2016)

Thanks! Ortega looks nice, indeed. Only 3 new algs (I don't count R2 F2 R2 as an alg to "learn" ).

I don't own any Minxes and don't have the intention to buy one any time soon. Actually, the kilominx is the only one I'd be slightly interested in, but that's not an official event.

I did enjoy 4x4 quite a lot when I practiced it a brief period early in the summer. I think I'll aim for that as well.


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## Selkie (Sep 19, 2016)

After the topic of beer and cubing I decided to undertake a controlled experiment for the betterment of the good regular thread attendees this evening 

On 3x3 I average globally just sub 15.5. My ao100 since increasing TPS have all been close to this. Sometimes as low as 15.4 sometimes as high as 15.6 but there or there about.

Under controlled situation I had three bottles of Tribute Cornish Pale Ales ... 15.9 Ao50, a reduction of 0.4 seconds. I tried to figure the reasoning apart from slow reactions but all I can put it down to is muscle memory suffered amnesia


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## Logiqx (Sep 19, 2016)

Talking about muscle memory amnesia, I found it really weird solving OH whilst windsurfing. I found that unless I watched what I was doing, I kept messing up even simple triggers. It's as if the muscle memory of major muscle groups was interfering with the muscle memory of my fingers. In some ways it was also similar to tests such as patting your head whilst rubbing your tummy. It took a good 30 mins to start to get the hang of it!

Oh yes... and over 50,000 views on Facebook on the popular windsurfing pages. lol

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk


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## JanW (Sep 19, 2016)

muchacho said:


> Ortega for 2x2 is not that difficult.


Haha, I must agree with this. Learned it well enough to do timed solves without cheat sheets in a few minutes. Now there's only the issue of getting faster.

I went straight for color neutral, that only seems to make sense here. I also realized that I'm better off if I avoid using any COLL algs I know. The PBLs with one layer already solved are longer than those which require permutations in both layers.

First 50 solves set a baseline for single/Ao5/Ao12 at 7.98/11.39/11.70. This is a good place to start improving. 

For those of you who use Ortega, what are you looking for during PBL recognition? What kind of patterns should I look for? The best I can do right now in terms of 2-sided recognition is 4 colors = diagonal swap and 3 colors = adjacent swap, swapping the 2 pieces with opposite colors on the same side. Any better way to recognize?


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## newtonbase (Sep 19, 2016)

JanW said:


> Haha, I must agree with this. Learned it well enough to do timed solves without cheat sheets in a few minutes. Now there's only the issue of getting faster.
> 
> I went straight for color neutral, that only seems to make sense here. I also realized that I'm better off if I avoid using any COLL algs I know. The PBLs with one layer already solved are longer than those which require permutations in both layers.
> 
> ...


This is pretty good https://www.speedsolving.com/forum/threads/2-sided-pbl-recognition-guide.26800/
I did have a site in my favorites that was more in depth but it's gone offline.


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## muchacho (Sep 19, 2016)

Those are good times to start from.

Just look for bars (and maybe beers). And during inspection try to see if there will be a bar, or solved or nothing.


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## h2f (Sep 19, 2016)

muchacho said:


> Those are good times to start from.
> 
> Just look for bars (and maybe beers). And during inspection try to see if there will be a bar, or solved or nothing.




Just watch Chris Olson how to be sub5 or something.


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## JanW (Sep 19, 2016)

Thanks all! That 2-sided pbl recognition guide seems to explain the same system I was using.

I didn't even think about working out the bottom layer permutation during inspection. Instead I tried to use inspection to see which OLL case I would get. Is it better to know bottom layer permutation? Possibly, since OLL recognition is already pretty fast...

I'll look for Chris Olson's video!


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## Logiqx (Sep 19, 2016)

JanW said:


> Thanks all! That 2-sided pbl recognition guide seems to explain the same system I was using.
> 
> I didn't even think about working out the bottom layer permutation during inspection. Instead I tried to use inspection to see which OLL case I would get. Is it better to know bottom layer permutation? Possibly, since OLL recognition is already pretty fast...
> 
> I'll look for Chris Olson's video!



Use inspection to plan the first face, determine bottom layer permutation and if you can see far enough, predict the OLL. You shouldn't need to look at the bottom layer beyond inspection.

It's also worth learning 2x2 algs for OLL as they are faster than 3x3 algs. Chris Olson has a good selection on his website.


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## Logiqx (Sep 19, 2016)

I've just picked up a delivery of cubes which I missed whilst I was on holiday. It arrived the first day that I was away! I've been really excited about this order and could have had them twelve days ago if I was at home. Better late than never...

Valk 3 - Serious contender for 2H main, possible OH main
Gan 356 Air - New commuter cube, possible 2H main
WeiLong GTS (spare) - current main (certainly for OH) but may be replaced by the Valk 3
Weipo - Instant 2x2 main, beating my LingPo hands down

I'll report back in a couple of days when I've broken them in a bit.


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## SenorJuan (Sep 19, 2016)

Mike, do you have any decent 3x3's for sale? Or did they all get dropped in Brogborough Lake during practice runs...?


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## Logiqx (Sep 20, 2016)

SenorJuan said:


> Mike, do you have any decent 3x3's for sale? Or did they all get dropped in Brogborough Lake during practice runs...?


Almost certainly. I'll have a look tonight.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk


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## JohnnyReggae (Sep 20, 2016)

@SenorJuan - Get well soon dude ... I commute to work on my bicycle and have been fairly lucky to not have any major injuries. I have hit 3 car doors and 4 pedestrians and have had to replace my front wheel twice, once from a car door and once from a pedestrian. When you are able I would recommend getting back on the horse.

@JanW - I've found being CN with 2x2 quite easy and not like trying to be CN on 3x3, which I can't do yet. I've recently picked up my 2x2 again just to drill the algs into my head again, usually while the kids are having their dinner. Have been averaging around 6 to 7 seconds which for me is pretty good.


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## muchacho (Sep 20, 2016)

2x2 PBs (thanks KungFu)
Ao5: 4.468 (was 5.136 from 26-jun)
Ao12: 5.190 (was 5.546 from last week)
Mo100: 6.486 (was 6.884 from last week)

Getting a sub-6.5 Mo100 was my goal for this summer so quite happy  ...Now I'll try to get the last goal, a sub-20 3x3 Mo100... in my dreams


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## mafergut (Sep 20, 2016)

muchacho said:


> 2x2 PBs (thanks KungFu)
> Ao5: 4.468 (was 5.136 from 26-jun)
> Ao12: 5.190 (was 5.546 from last week)
> Mo100: 6.486 (was 6.884 from last week)
> ...


So what did you do to the KungFu to make it usable?


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## muchacho (Sep 20, 2016)

I removed the green and added black... no joke, that's it.

ok, I adjusted the tensions of the cube since it was a bit loose and the core got jammed? a couple of times, but then the cube was not the same, not only slower but also worse, maybe I did something wrong when putting it back together.

So I took the (external) pieces from that cube (I had bought a stickerless and a black one) and put them into the other core. The cube may be a bit too fast and the corners flex? wobble? too much, but it's almost fine and I'm scared of changing anything since I don't know what happened to the other cube. So I have not lubed or tensioned this one. One of the 3 pieces of a corner popped again today, I would like to do something about that, but won't.


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## JanW (Sep 21, 2016)

I learned some 2x2 OLL and multiple angles for PBL, and did a lot of slow solving while watching a sad hockey game last night. My next attempt at 50 timed solves improved pb 1/5/12 to 4.35/7.21/8.71. The 4.35 should have been faster as it was a 1-move bottom layer + anti-sune. There was also a sub-5 full step solve. I don't really know how that happened, very surprising to see the timer stop at 4.93.

I've used timed inspection for all timed solves, because it feels to me that this is all about inspection and I want to get used to doing that fast.

I don't know at all if my cube is good or not. My first 2x2 was a Cyclone Boys that doesn't really turn at all. I think getting such a crappy cube at first is the main reason I never practiced this event before. I later bought a LingPo, which feels like heaven compared to the Cyclone Boys, but I don't have anything else to compare with. I've done nothing to set it up, just use it as it was out of the box.


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## muchacho (Sep 21, 2016)

People say the WeiPo is slightly better than a LingPo.

At least I preferred the Dayan to the LingPo, and now the KungFu feels much better than both. Good enough to not buy another one for now.


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## JanW (Sep 21, 2016)

I ordered the KungFu 2x2. And a KungFu 4x4. And a new 5x5, and a 3x3. And a cubing timer... Why do they make buying things so easy nowadays?


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## h2f (Sep 21, 2016)

4bld finally!


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## newtonbase (Sep 21, 2016)

h2f said:


> 4bld finally!


Congratulations. Good job.


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## Logiqx (Sep 21, 2016)

Logiqx said:


> I'll report back in a couple of days when I've broken them in a bit.



I'm really liking the Valk 3. Today was my first timed OH session in a month so I did a bunch of solves on a quiet-ish train home tonight. The 21.215 single was full step (but easy) and 29.820 was my first sub-30 Ao12. The Valk is frickin' awesome for OH! 

Title: 3x3x3 OH
Scrambler: 3x3x3 Simple
# of solving: 34
Std Dev: 1.799
* Best of all: 21.215*
Worst of all: 42.973
Average of all: 30.729
Best Avg of 5: 28.964
* Best Avg of 12: 29.820*
Best Avg of 25: 30.70472

Solving times: 27.680 28.409 31.833 28.230 30.253 28.188 31.522 28.883 37.101 32.385 30.817 27.464 29.512 33.475 30.335 32.627 31.668 30.344 34.116 21.215 27.912 31.972 30.077 42.973 31.397 29.541 30.645 30.113 30.259 32.250 29.330 32.795 34.647 30.669


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## Jason Green (Sep 22, 2016)

Finally after over 5 months a PB of 12.26! I can't for the life of me get it reconstructed. I do not think it was a mis-scramble because I remember the cross very well. But after that non of the pairs look familiar. Oh well, I just need to beat it so I can have my PB reconstructed.


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## teacher77 (Sep 22, 2016)

Hey guys ! The few days with slow solves definitly helped. I broke my "average of 10+" PB several times in a row in the last few days, including twice only today. And I FINALLY got a new PB single, at 21.57 sec.

Look at the graph : blue dots = average of 10+, pink dots = single :


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## Jason Green (Sep 22, 2016)

On another topic I'm now now undecided on the GTS. The algs are so fast for me on it! But I just don't have the overall comfort level. I think a tiny bit of recognition, even though it's my color scheme it's brand new and the stickers are a different size than the Yuexiao. I had a 15.25 with an E perm, probably my best on that perm... it was so effortless. 

Maybe I just need the Valk.


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## h2f (Sep 22, 2016)

Jason Green said:


> Finally after over 5 months a PB of 12.26! I can't for the life of me get it reconstructed. I do not think it was a mis-scramble because I remember the cross very well. But after that non of the pairs look familiar. Oh well, I just need to beat it so I can have my PB reconstructed.



It means next PB should be recorded on cam!



teacher77 said:


> Hey guys ! The few days with slow solves definitly helped. I broke my "average of 10+" PB several times in a row in the last few days, including twice only today. And I FINALLY got a new PB single, at 21.57 sec.



Nice progress. Sub30 very soon in ao5, ao12 and finally ao100. Just keep practicing. Do you do crosses on a bottom?


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## JohnnyReggae (Sep 22, 2016)

Jason Green said:


> On another topic I'm now now undecided on the GTS. The algs are so fast for me on it! But I just don't have the overall comfort level. I think a tiny bit of recognition, even though it's my color scheme it's brand new and the stickers are a different size than the Yuexiao. I had a 15.25 with an E perm, probably my best on that perm... it was so effortless.
> 
> Maybe I just need the Valk.


I'm also undecided on the GTS. Initially I thought it was awesome, however the more I use it the less I like it. It is to fast, to noisy. The GAN V2 is my main, but this last week I've found some love for my YueXiao which I do think is better than the GTS.

I'm tempted by the Valk now though 

Edit: Congrats on the PB !!


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## Selkie (Sep 22, 2016)

@Logiqx - Your windsurfing OH was awesome but I can completely get the disturbance on muscle memory for the attempts. I will occasionally forget the execution of an OLL, an easy one at that and then not be able to get it again without re learning and drilling it. Very off and that is in just normal solving. As for that OH session, well I am amazed and yes isn't the Valk 3 amazing 

@JanW - Those are great starting 2x2 times. My 2x2 lags so far behind y 3x3 progression it is unreal!

@muchacho - Really nice 2x2 times there and congratulations on achieving the goal

@h2f - Congratulations on the 4BLD, loving the music overlay 

@Jason Green - Awesome single there. You're improvement doesn't seem to be letting up at all yet 

@teacher77 - Thats really good progression.. Nice graph.

@Jason Green , @JohnnyReggae - One of the drawbacks to having gone stickerless, I dont get to try and form opinions on some of the great new cubes. GTS sounds awesome as does the Gans 356 Air Master


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## Logiqx (Sep 22, 2016)

Oldies signed up for Guildford (UK), 01/10/2016 + 02/10/2016:


NameWCA IDUsernameAndy Nicholls2015NICH04Shaky HandsBen Coppin2013COPP01bubbagrubbChris Wright2011WRIG01SelkieGuy Plowman2015PLOW01n/aIan Gerleman2015GERL02n/aMark Adams2015ADAM03newtonbaseMark Rivers2015RIVE05mark49152Michael George2015GEOR02Logiqx


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## Shaky Hands (Sep 22, 2016)

Second solve of the day, 3x3 PB single: 14.74, previously 15.76.

Scramble was:
U2 B' F L' B' F' R2 B U' F2 D L D2 U2 L' F2 L2 F D' B' U2 L' B' U2 F' 

It started off:
x2 // inspection
D' F' U L' B D2 // cross
L' U' L // 1st pair
B U' B2 U' B // 2nd pair

Not sure after that. I was staring at the timer in disbelief for too long to remember how it went.

I did 100 solves yesterday and got nothing sub-18, averaging 25-26, so this is something of an extreme outlier.

But hey, I'll take it!


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## newtonbase (Sep 22, 2016)

Logiqx said:


> Oldies signed up for Guildford (UK), 01/10/2016 + 02/10/2016:
> 
> 
> NameWCA IDUsernameAndy Nicholls2015NICH04Shaky HandsBen Coppin2013COPP01bubbagrubbChris Wright2011WRIG01SelkieGuy Plowman2015PLOW01n/aMark Adams2015ADAM03newtonbaseMark Rivers2015RIVE05mark49152Michael George2015GEOR02Logiqx


That's our best representation since the UKs last year. They are going to have to cater for us. I'm thinking comfy chairs, ramps, cocoa on tap and soothing music (maybe Beastie Boys).


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## Shaky Hands (Sep 22, 2016)

Logiqx said:


> Oldies signed up for Guildford (UK), 01/10/2016 + 02/10/2016:
> 
> 
> NameWCA IDUsernameAndy Nicholls2015NICH04Shaky HandsBen Coppin2013COPP01bubbagrubbChris Wright2011WRIG01SelkieGuy Plowman2015PLOW01n/aMark Adams2015ADAM03newtonbaseMark Rivers2015RIVE05mark49152Michael George2015GEOR02Logiqx



Ian G would be an older cuber too. Don't think he posts here though.


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## muchacho (Sep 22, 2016)

Some PBs on the Thunderclap (I'm using it again since a few days ago). I was trying a Mo100 PB, almost tied that one, so the cube must be good... just a bit too fast during algs and LSE, I'll try some more lube.

Ao5: 16.465 (was 17.005 from a week ago)
Ao12: 18.293 (was 18.733 from 26-jul)



Spoiler: Ao5



27844 22-sep-2016 13:12:26 00:14.847 B2 D B2 D2 F2 L2 F2 U' R' U L' U' R' B F' D F U'
27843 22-sep-2016 13:11:46 00:21.591 B2 D' U' B2 L2 B2 D R2 B2 F2 U2 F' D' B2 D L' D' R' D2 F U' B'
27842 22-sep-2016 13:11:02 00:13.470 B2 U' F2 U L2 F2 D L2 D' R2 B2 R D R' U2 R2 L' F D' B2
27841 22-sep-2016 13:10:23 00:17.447 D' B2 D2 L2 D B2 L2 D' L2 F2 U2 L' U2 R F' L2 D B L' U2 B2 U'
27840 22-sep-2016 13:09:44 00:17.103 F2 D' L2 F2 L2 D2 L2 U' L2 B' R U2 R' F' R2 L D L' B R'





Spoiler: Ao12



27890 22-sep-2016 13:48:22 00:18.334 F2 U' L2 D U B2 D' F2 L2 B2 U' F D' R D R D2 L U' R2 D2
27889 22-sep-2016 13:47:28 00:16.959 B2 D R2 L2 D L2 D2 U2 B2 U' R F' U R' U' L2 D L' B2 F2 U2
27888 22-sep-2016 13:46:42 00:18.647 R2 F2 U' L2 D2 F2 R2 U' B2 L2 D' B D2 U2 L' D2 R U B2 R2 F2
27887 22-sep-2016 13:45:50 00:22.038 F2 L2 U R2 L2 B2 D' F2 R2 F2 D2 L B L D R D R D F2 L2
27886 22-sep-2016 13:45:03 00:19.431 F2 U2 L2 U F2 R2 U R2 D' F2 D' B' L2 F2 L' D' L2 B' R' D F'
27885 22-sep-2016 13:44:16 00:17.550 R2 D' R2 B2 D R2 U F2 D R2 U B' R' U2 L U F D' F2 L B' U2
27884 22-sep-2016 13:43:26 00:19.279 R2 L2 U' B2 D2 L2 F2 U' R2 F2 U' F R L' D L2 U' B U2 L' F'
27883 22-sep-2016 13:42:40 00:18.382 U B2 F2 D2 U' R2 F2 D' B2 D' F2 L R2 F' D2 B R' L2 D2 U' B L'
27882 22-sep-2016 13:41:58 00:17.567 R2 D F2 L2 U2 F2 R2 D R2 D R2 F R' U' B L' B D2 U B2 F U
27881 22-sep-2016 13:40:57 00:17.343 B2 F2 L2 U F2 L2 D2 R2 U L2 F D2 U B' D R' D U' B' U2 L' U
27880 22-sep-2016 13:40:14 00:17.510 U' F2 L2 U2 B2 R2 D' B2 D' F2 U B' D F' L D L2 U2 B' U2 R D2
27879 22-sep-2016 13:39:36 00:18.888 D B2 D B2 L2 D2 B2 R2 D F2 U' R' U' R D F' L' D U' B L2 U'


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## Logiqx (Sep 22, 2016)

Shaky Hands said:


> Ian G would be an older cuber too. Don't think he posts here though.



Thanks. Added!


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## h2f (Sep 22, 2016)

muchacho said:


> Some PBs on the Thunderclap (I'm using it again since a few days ago). I was trying a Mo100 PB, almost tied that one, so the cube must be good... just a bit too fast during algs and LSE, I'll try some more lube.
> 
> Ao5: 16.465 (was 17.005 from a week ago)
> Ao12: 18.293 (was 18.733 from 26-jul)
> ...



Nice times. I'm back to Thunderclap v1 too. I use it in OH and TH.


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## mafergut (Sep 22, 2016)

muchacho said:


> Some PBs on the Thunderclap (I'm using it again since a few days ago). I was trying a Mo100 PB, almost tied that one, so the cube must be good... just a bit too fast during algs and LSE, I'll try some more lube.
> 
> Ao5: 16.465 (was 17.005 from a week ago)
> Ao12: 18.293 (was 18.733 from 26-jul)



Wow! Congratulations. Those are serious PBs and serious improvement over the last weeks, at least on Ao5, which you're destroying in half a second steps! You're getting faster and faster.

And I'm stuck for longer and longer. My PBs should start watching their back to see yours coming. I'm demotivated lately. Yesterday I had a train commute, did a few untimed and then a few timed 5x5 solves and I could not get below 3:15.xx or so. I'm back to a bit over 1:30 at 4x4 (according to my last 4x4 Race results) and nowhere near my goal of sub-18 Ao50 before end of september at 3x3.


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## newtonbase (Sep 22, 2016)

h2f said:


> Nice times. I'm back to Thunderclap v1 too. I use it in OH and TH.


I keep going back to it too. It's so reliable and is nice and clicky for blind.


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## muchacho (Sep 22, 2016)

My improvement was slowing down, so first I stopped doing OH and now that I got my 2x2 goal I'll practice only 3x3 (plus weekly comps), maybe you could try to focus on one puzzle for a few weeks.

Maybe I can go to sub-20 just by doing solves, but then I predict a lot of hard and boring work for me to continue improving.


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## h2f (Sep 22, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> I keep going back to it too. It's so reliable and is nice and clicky for blind.



Agree . I use it in 3bld due to nice Mslice moves. But v2 in 3bld isnt bad - it's stable and only Mslice is a little harder than in v1.


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## newtonbase (Sep 22, 2016)

h2f said:


> Agree . I use it in 3bld due to nice Mslice moves. But v2 in 3bld isnt bad - it's stable and only Mslice is a little harder than in v1.


My v2 is stickerless but I prefer stickers for 3BLD as they feel a little better. I do prefer a mix for multi as I can tell them apart so maybe I'll use the v2 for that.


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## h2f (Sep 22, 2016)

I'm after first full attempt of 6bld. I finished after 1:30 min solving all targets. I knew I messed but I had to check if I remember all targets (I did) and how I feel the slices when I'm blindfolded. I think I'll repeat it soon. Video (short) will come soon.


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## mark49152 (Sep 22, 2016)

@h2f, I'm looking forward to seeing your video!


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## h2f (Sep 22, 2016)

I'm gonna make it in last 4bld style. 30 minutes execution is far too long.


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## Jason Green (Sep 23, 2016)

We talked a while back about Caleb Miller's f2l videos. This one is a little more my speed, just shows the algs for every case and sample solve. I think Caleb's is more educational though, and gives more options. It's really too bad they don't have every case from every angle on algdb.

I guess I'm the type of person who just wants the answers first, and then understand it later which I know I'm weird compared to a lot of you like that. Maybe it's lazy, it just feels more enjoyable to learn like that for me.


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## mark49152 (Sep 23, 2016)

@Jason Green, nothing wrong with that approach if it works for you. Personally I think rotationless F2L is overrated though. Some of those solutions add several moves and make lookahead more difficult, just to avoid a rotation that wouldn't be awkward anyway. 

Have you seen Viktor Danilov's guides? They are also good.


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## Jason Green (Sep 23, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> @Jason Green, nothing wrong with that approach if it works for you. Personally I think rotationless F2L is overrated though. Some of those solutions add several moves and make lookahead more difficult, just to avoid a rotation that wouldn't be awkward anyway.
> 
> Have you seen Viktor Danilov's guides? They are also good.


No I haven't I might check them out. I agree I don't think the goal would be no rotations ever, but I definitely would like to know some better algs for some things I do.


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## mark49152 (Sep 23, 2016)

Jason Green said:


> No I haven't I might check them out. I agree I don't think the goal would be no rotations ever, but I definitely would like to know some better algs for some things I do.


https://www.speedsolving.com/forum/threads/video-expert-f2l-russian-by-viktor-danilov.43416/

There were some really interesting discussions a few years back about what was important for good F2L and Rowan Kinneavy (@Escher) posted some great stuff. I can't find it now, but the gist of his and other posts was that lookahead goes hand in hand with things like selecting the right pairs to minimise rotations, preserving and predicting pairs, filling back slots first to keep more pieces visible, etc. It influenced me to see F2L as more of a holistic thing, rather than four separate steps... but your mileage may vary .


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## JohnnyReggae (Sep 23, 2016)

Jason Green said:


> No I haven't I might check them out. I agree I don't think the goal would be no rotations ever, but I definitely would like to know some better algs for some things I do.


I agree. While rotation-less F2L would be great, I don't think it's totally practical. However it is good to know how to insert from all angles. I know I rotate way to much when solving, sometimes 5 or 6 times which can adversely affect times. When I do have a solve where I don't rotate at all I'm quite surprised. I suppose if I was using say ZZ then rotations would be a thing of the past and I have started looking at ZZ, although my times with ZZ are pretty rubbish to say the least. I need to spend more time that I don't really have ATM.

Thanks for the video link, I will definitely be checking it out.


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## Selkie (Sep 23, 2016)

@Logiqx Wow definitely a full compliment of oldies at Guildford! 

@Shaky Hands Aweome single mate, thats how to smask it, over a second off! Lovely

-------

Some good dialogue on F2L. Here is my 2 cents for what its worth. I learned intuitively originally using Badmephistos videos. Later I gradually replaced some unoptimised cases with algorithms.

I think the end result outweighs algorithm first method, at least for me and I suspect for those with a lower turn speed. My reasoning is for a number of reasons but the main one is that nearly all the algs assume you are working on the last of 4 slots and that you are unable to use the other three. There are so many tricks you can adopt and shortcuts you can take if you are for instance solving BR and FR is still free. I believe look ahead flows better and you can understand the pieces move better if you know intuitively.

I did however say outweigh and not categorical and my reason for this is personal experience. I still rotate far too much and I still go back to intuitive for cases where I have learned the alg and it has not stuck. If you opt for intuitive based then I recommend keep self critiquing your own solves on video and make note of the cases where you are using too many rotations and definitely the ones where you see yourself do a y2.

Bottom line is intuitive becomes alg driven in the end even if it is by repeating the same intuitive cases becomes algs by definition. Some alg dbs use a lot of r/r' R2/R2' to save on rotations and I do find I cannot look ahead through the execution of these very well. Sometimes a well timed d or d' can do just as good a trick. You would be surprised what R'FRF' can do to a bad case so experiment with it. An example of this the last pair on the second solve (12.38) of my 12.77 ao5. I rotated twice. I know that R'FRF' would have left a rotationless case but I did not do it in practice on that solve.

I have realised I have got very stagnant with algorithms to be fair in the last couple of years. Yesterday I learned a new Ra and a new Nb to drill for a few weeks to see if they can replace the ones I use and I am looking to optimise a number of F2L cases, especially for my nemesis ... BL slot!!


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## mark49152 (Sep 23, 2016)

I agree with @Selkie and let me give an example. 

Take the case R U2 R' U' R U R' (that's the solve, invert for setup). Now suppose the target slot is actually at BL, so do a Dw2 after setup, and also suppose the FR slot is open (unsolved so available to mess up). Now you could do a U2 and mirror the solution above, but I find it faster to do R U2 R' U L U L'. So use the open FR to prepare the pair, then align and insert to BL instead.

It's a whole load easier to see such adapted solutions if you are working intuitively. That's not to say you can't learn it as an algorithm first, then study how it works so you can use it and adapt it intuitively in future.

Another example. Same case but target slot at FL, so do Dw' after setup. FR is open. The edge is now bad so it means either a fancy rotationless solution, or a rotation. Since FR is open, we can set it up the same way, R U2 R', and then with a y' rotation it's already setup to insert. IMHO, F2L rotations aren't as bad when they are in the middle of a pair solution (as opposed to between pairs) because you know it's coming and develop muscle memory for it. In the above example I'm starting that y' before I even finish the R U2 R'.


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## h2f (Sep 23, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> It's a whole load easier to see such adapted solutions if you are working intuitively. That's not to say you can't learn it as an algorithm first, then study how it works so you can use it and adapt it intuitively in future.



I agree with you both. First I learnt all algs but in the next steps I've started some intuitive cases. Using empty slots is very important to prepare easy slots. Sometimes intuitive solutions are strange in the first few but exploring them makes solving nicer. For example I like the insert r U r' U' r' F r F' and I knew it doesne change EO is fast and I'm comfortable with it. So I can drill it finding mirror, inverse etc. And it stays in my mind so deep that I dont think about it during solve.


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## Shaky Hands (Sep 23, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> Take the case R U2 R' U' R U R' (that's the solve, invert for setup).



I should probably learn this one, since I solve it with U' R U' R' U2 R U2 R' U R U' R' and could save myself a stack of moves.


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## mark49152 (Sep 23, 2016)

Shaky Hands said:


> I should probably learn this one, since I solve it with U' R U' R' U2 R U2 R' U R U' R' and could save myself a stack of moves.


Great example of why it's good to look them up as algs rather than rely on always figuring it out intuitively - because if we rely on intuition only we will always miss some cool solutions.

To summarise my position in the great algs versus intuition debate: (1) look up algs for F2L cases, and (2) figure out how they work so they become intuitive. 

@h2f: I don't know that insert, but can't get what you wrote to work.


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## h2f (Sep 23, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> @h2f: I don't know that insert, but can't get what you wrote to work.



Becasue I wrote it wrong. I messed F with R in the second part of the insert: it should be r U r' U' r' F r F'. I'll edit the previous post. Durign execution I add x rotation so it goes like I meant: r U r' U' *x* r' U r U' *x'*

alg.cubing.net


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## mark49152 (Sep 23, 2016)

h2f said:


> Becasue I wrote it wrong. I messed F with R in the second part of the insert: it should be r U r' U' r' F r F'. I'll edit the previous post. Durign execution I add x rotation so it goes like I meant: r U r' U' *x* r' U r U' *x'*


Got it. My solution to that case (mirrored to FR) is R U' R' U' R U' R' / U R U R'. Which at the slash can be rotated or mirrored to other slots.


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## JohnnyReggae (Sep 23, 2016)

@Selkie - I agree with the approach of going with intuitive first, which is what I did, and then looked up some algs for a few cases. The only problem with that is the number of rotations that happen, for me anyway at least. The problem with learning algs for F2L is that in the moment I don't remember them and go back to my intuitive method, and I waste some time trying to think of the alg again.


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## JohnnyReggae (Sep 23, 2016)

A kind of a big deal for me in the cubing world .... I've been nominated as a Candidate Delegate for the WCA. This means that it will be easier to have local competitions. At the moment any competition hosted in South Africa needs to be attended by 1 of 2 delegates who are in the north of the country. With Cape Town being way down south they have to travel down here. Moving forward however we can host competitions in Cape Town a lot easier. What also helps is that we've had a donation of timers for the country with half staying up north and the other half coming down to Cape Town. I'm quite excited for this. I'm really hoping that we can expand the current number of people attending competitions by holding a few more, more often.


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## h2f (Sep 23, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> My solution to that case (mirrored to FR) is R U' R' U' R U' R' / U R U R'. Which at the slash can be rotated or mirrored to other slots.



I use it too. 

@JohnnyReggae, congrats.


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## Jason Green (Sep 23, 2016)

Appreciate all the F2L feedback, great stuff! I realize I was completely misleading as to what my thoughts are on learning F2L "from scratch". I learned completely intuitively, and that is what I would teach someone. What I consider intuitive F2L is first get your pair on top and separated, then learn the 3 cases (cross color up on corner, opposite colors up, same colors up). That's it, figure out the rest. 

I was quite a ways before I learned any algs, even the triple sexy one that inserts in place that everyone knows.

But at the point I am now, that is where I would prefer to start with a new alg first, for the cases that are not intuitive to me. Just think of me as the lazy one I guess. I was able to get started with intuitive and start improving with very little to learn. But for some of these that are not obvious to me I don't want to try and wrap my brain around an explanation of where all the pieces are moving for each case, I just prefer the answer. 

I really agree with all the other comments though, I think it's a preference, rotationless is not everything, there are other just as important aspects for F2L, etc. Just wanted to clarify since I probably came across as an alg first learner... I guess I'd be an alg second learner. So teach me to fish as long as it's not too difficult, otherwise just feed me.


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## h2f (Sep 23, 2016)

How I tried 6bld. Memo starts at 3:48. I've added English subs (my English is poor) for you guys. I hope you enjoy it.


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## mark49152 (Sep 23, 2016)

Jason Green said:


> But at the point I am now, that is where I would prefer to start with a new alg first, for the cases that are not intuitive to me. Just think of me as the lazy one I guess. I was able to get started with intuitive and start improving with very little to learn. But for some of these that are not obvious to me I don't want to try and wrap my brain around an explanation of where all the pieces are moving for each case, I just prefer the answer.


Yeah I don't think we're anywhere different really. I haven't learned anything new by intuition for ages (on F2L, at least). Once you've gone so far, learning by intuition kind of gets exhausted. Studying algs sometimes reveals new solutions and understanding how they work sometimes reveals new ideas that can be intuitively applied to other cases. Sledgehammer is a good example of that. Once I understood how it affected other pieces, I found lots of ways to intuitively make use of it.

Regarding not wrapping your brain around solutions, fair enough, although I believe it's best to try to. For lots of algs it's kind of obvious how they work anyway, since it's only two pieces you're moving. For some algs it might be less obvious, and maybe that means they would be less useful intuitively anyway. Algs that involve R2 moves, slices and/or wide moves or generally move the pieces around in ways that are "unnatural" to F2L are maybe just best left as algs and not understood .


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## megagoune (Sep 23, 2016)

Selkie said:


> @Jason Green , @JohnnyReggae - One of the drawbacks to having gone stickerless, I dont get to try and form opinions on some of the great new cubes. GTS sounds awesome as does the Gans 356 Air Master


I am curious, what is your reason for going stickerless? 
I recently bought a Gans Air, my first stickered speed cube. I find difficult to look ahead on it. It turns so smoothly and I really like it, but when I use a stickerless cube, I feel I find pieces faster during F2L.
I am not sure why, maybe just practicing on stickered cube will help, or maybe the cube is too fast and I turn faster during F2L with it.
Anyone prefer stickerless specifically for look ahead?


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## Selkie (Sep 23, 2016)

@JohnnyReggae - That is excellent news. Best of luck. I look forward ti hearing about your progress as a delegate and as for comps in Cape Town. I have a lot of distant family there so I would never count out a visit 

@megagoune - I think it is down to pure personal preference. Much like the difference of solving on white or black before stickerless became competition legal. I never used to be able to solve on white. I got a few stickerless as I collected cubes and found them better about 6 months ago. Solving on stickered now the borders of black just put me off. Don't think they are any better generally, just another option worth trying as you may prefer them. Having said that I was sorting out a 7x7 from my collection for a UK cuber who doesn't hav one this evening and found a boxed YJ Guansu 4x4. Decided to have a solve and 50.77. Thats a white cube, what do I know


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## megagoune (Sep 23, 2016)

Selkie said:


> @JohnnyReggae - That is excellent news. Best of luck. I look forward ti hearing about your progress as a delegate and as for comps in Cape Town. I have a lot of distant family there so I would never count out a visit
> 
> @megagoune - I think it is down to pure personal preference. Much like the difference of solving on white or black before stickerless became competition legal. I never used to be able to solve on white. I got a few stickerless as I collected cubes and found them better about 6 months ago. Solving on stickered now the borders of black just put me off. Don't think they are any better generally, just another option worth trying as you may prefer them.



Funny, the "borders of black" is exactly how I feel. Sometimes I think that I am looking at that location of the edge to determine its colors, and I think "black piece" :confused:. 
I always bought stickerless cubes because I preferred the look. I never really intended to enter competitions, so I did not care that they were not allowed. But now I am happy that they are allowed because I intend to enter a comp sometime. I am just waiting for one happening close by.


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## Jason Green (Sep 23, 2016)

megagoune said:


> I am curious, what is your reason for going stickerless?
> I recently bought a Gans Air, my first stickered speed cube. I find difficult to look ahead on it. It turns so smoothly and I really like it, but when I use a stickerless cube, I feel I find pieces faster during F2L.
> I am not sure why, maybe just practicing on stickered cube will help, or maybe the cube is too fast and I turn faster during F2L with it.
> Anyone prefer stickerless specifically for look ahead?


I think it's mostly adjusting to it. Even different shades will affect me for a while. I'm pretty used to my stickerless big cubes and black stickered 3x3. I've never tried white stickered.


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## Selkie (Sep 23, 2016)

@megagoune - @Jason Green has mentioned the single most important thing about stickerless that I failed to mention. If you buy a stickered cube and you don't like the shades of colours you can change the stickers and CubeSmith used to and Cubicle now has big business from stickers. One big drawback with stickerless is you get the shades you are given. It has certainly made me more forgiving and varied in the shades I use. There are some stickerless that are far too close but I can solve on a lot of different shades through necessity now.


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## megagoune (Sep 23, 2016)

Jason Green said:


> I think it's mostly adjusting to it. Even different shades will affect me for a while. I'm pretty used to my stickerless big cubes and black stickered 3x3. I've never tried white stickered.


I will continue practicing with the air to see how it goes. I really like the feel. And I think you're right, I will most likely adjust to it.
But, I will still order my next 3x3 (the Valk) in stickerless .


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## Jason Green (Sep 23, 2016)

megagoune said:


> I will continue practicing with the air to see how it goes. I really like the feel. And I think you're right, I will most likely adjust to it.
> But, I will still order my next 3x3 (the Valk) in stickerless .


For any stickered puzzles I do have a scheme (same as @MarcelP scheme) that I order for consistency. Restickering is not that bad if you've never tried. I use application tape but there are mixed feelings on it.


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## megagoune (Sep 23, 2016)

Jason Green said:


> For any stickered puzzles I do have a scheme (same as @MarcelP scheme) that I order for consistency. Restickering is not that bad if you've never tried. I use application tape but there are mixed feelings on it.



Thanks for all the inputs.
I actually stickered a bunch of puzzles because I like sticker mods 
I think I did a Ruben King cube, a Shepherd's cube, a calendar cube, a 4x4 super-cube. I also did 3 cubes with only different shades of same color (like a cube with 6 different shades of blue on it).
I don't really like application tape. I find easier to put the sticker on the tip of my exacto knife and place it with the knife.
I bought stickers from cubesmith in the past, but from thecubicle recently. I think it's fun to re-sticker.


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## pglewis (Sep 23, 2016)

Nearly 600 pages of old people? An old nub here, I'll be 49 in January and just went to my first comp this month. 

I'm a first gen cuber, probably got my first cube around '82, old skool Rubik's brand of course. No internet in those days but I picked up a book at some point and could solve LBL probably somewhere in the 3 to 5 min range. The most recent new wave of interest kept bringing me into contact with cubes. I could remember about 90% but couldn't finish the last layer and that happened enough times that I finally hit the 'net in late winter to figure out how to solve again. Learned the beginners' LL, did that about twice before I decided it was ridiculous, and then I fell into the speedsolving rabbit hole. 

I bombed at my first comp. I knew comp jitters might be a factor my first time out but I really underestimated how much it might throw me off. My concentration was clearly off that morning in practice and once the timer started I nearly went full brain-wipe despite plenty of practice at home with cstimer. I'm unfazed though, the entire comp experience was fantastic. Everyone was incredibly helpful, friendly, and encouraging. I didn't even manage an average for 3x3 or 2x2, but at least I have official single solves for both in the books and my PRs will be crushed my next time out . Now that I know my concentration is susceptible I'll practice with sirens going and someone actively heckling me before my next comp. When warmed up at home on 3x3 I'm currently around mid 40s for ao5, best single :34 and change. 2x2 average generally 12-14 seconds with a 5.52 best single but the first time I ever touched a 2x2 was 2 weeks before the comp. 

My mission: I'm another sub-20 3x3 seeker now. I use CFOP, 2 look OLL and I know full PLL with the exception of Nb at this point. Not in need of much help short of pounding out F2L thousands more times. I haven't done much archaeology in this thread yet so I'm not sure who the active old folks are but I figure there are a few active speedsolvers around that are older than I. Anyone pulled up any interesting WCA stats on age?


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## mark49152 (Sep 23, 2016)

Welcome @pglewis! You're in the right place


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## mark49152 (Sep 24, 2016)

h2f said:


> How I tried 6bld. Memo starts at 3:48. I've added English subs (my English is poor) for you guys. I hope you enjoy it.


Nice video Grzegorz! Good to see the explanation as well and I'm looking forward to the next one .

How do you think you messed up? That was one very scrambled cube at the end. Looked like maybe you rotated for a setup and forgot to rotate back or something drastic like that!


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## Selkie (Sep 24, 2016)

Welcome to the old timers thread @pglewis. I too am an original cuber, though younger than you at 46. I remember the release of the cube. Was 11 at the time and learned through collective knowledge how to solve, by 1982 I was solving ~2m. I turned to speed solving 5 years go and never really looked back.

Please do hang around and take part in the banter etc. Sub 20 isnt out of bounds for old folk mate


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## teacher77 (Sep 24, 2016)

h2f said:


> Nice progress. Sub30 very soon in ao5, ao12 and finally ao100. Just keep practicing. Do you do crosses on a bottom?



Thanks ! As for the X on bottom, I figured one step at the time : as soon as I'm done learning PLL's, I'll focus on that.


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## h2f (Sep 24, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> How do you think you messed up? That was one very scrambled cube at the end. Looked like maybe you rotated for a setup and forgot to rotate back or something drastic like that!



Maybe this is the answer. I cant figure out. The other cause - and I think this is the answer - I couldnt disthinguisk slices. If it's d2 or d3 or r2 or r3 etc. I had also problem figuring out how to solve +/-centers (I dont know it's proper name) when the target is on the bottom. I solved the cube today with 3style and it had 1 corner; 2 or 3 xcenters, 4-5 +centers and 5-6 -centers; a lot of wings. Resuming: rotation, slices, setup. It means standard answer when you mess during blindfold. 



teacher77 said:


> As for the X on bottom, I figured one step at the time : as soon as I'm done learning PLL's, I'll focus on that.



My advice is: dont wait. You will learn but habits and they streghten because you used to them. For a long time I was doing cross on the left and it was hard for me to switch. Still cross is my weakest part of solving.

@pglewis Hi. Nice to see you.


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## mark49152 (Sep 24, 2016)

Grzegorz @h2f, your attempt has motivated me to have a go. I will try to find time after the Guildford comp. I already watched Roman's video on obliques and am fairly happy that I know how to approach it. The thing that looks most difficult to me is taking care to choose the right slices, because of how you must constantly switch between inner and outer slices when solving the obliques.


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## h2f (Sep 24, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> Grzegorz @h2f, your attempt has motivated me to have a go. I will try to find time after the Guildford comp. I already watched Roman's video on obliques and am fairly happy that I know how to approach it. The thing that looks most difficult to me is taking care to choose the right slices, because of how you must constantly switch between inner and outer slices when solving the obliques.



I'm happy to read it. Yes, I think the hardest part is to take right slice. The other - differenitate between obliques whether they + or -. I remember Hans Hubb metnioned he uses U2 method for centers but I cant figure out how to deal with targets on D layer. I'm just curious because I do it with comms.


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## mark49152 (Sep 24, 2016)

h2f said:


> I remember Hans Hubb metnioned he uses U2 method for centers but I cant figure out how to deal with targets on D layer. I'm just curious because I do it with comms.


I use "advanced" U2 in the same sense as advanced M2. My buffer is Ubr so I try to set up D targets to Ufl and do a comm whenever possible. When not possible, there's an alg to solve Dbl directly.


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## h2f (Sep 24, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> When not possible, there's an alg to solve Dbl directly.



You mean Xcenters? I mean for +/- obliques. For Xcenters I think it's the same alg like in 4bld and 5bld.


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## mark49152 (Sep 24, 2016)

h2f said:


> You mean Xcenters? I mean for +/- obliques. For Xcenters I think it's the same alg like in 4bld and 5bld.


I mean X centers. I haven't tried obliques yet. I would first try to set up to a comm at Ufl same as other centers. If that fails, I have no idea whether the X center alg would work, although that alg is just a complicated setup to a regular U2 swap so it might not be too hard to figure it how to adapt it to obliques.


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## h2f (Sep 24, 2016)

@mark49152, Mark it doesnt work on obliques but maybe I'm wrong. For D layer I do easy comm like: [U r2 U', 2l] and its variations. If the targets are on D and U layer I setup U layer target to F side.


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## newtonbase (Sep 24, 2016)

I'm giving my nephew a Skewb for his birthday tomorrow so I've had to relearn it. This will come in handy as I've entered it at Guildford next week.


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## JohnnyReggae (Sep 24, 2016)

Selkie said:


> @JohnnyReggae - That is excellent news. Best of luck. I look forward ti hearing about your progress as a delegate and as for comps in Cape Town. I have a lot of distant family there so I would never count out a visit
> 
> @megagoune - I think it is down to pure personal preference. Much like the difference of solving on white or black before stickerless became competition legal. I never used to be able to solve on white. I got a few stickerless as I collected cubes and found them better about 6 months ago. Solving on stickered now the borders of black just put me off. Don't think they are any better generally, just another option worth trying as you may prefer them. Having said that I was sorting out a 7x7 from my collection for a UK cuber who doesn't hav one this evening and found a boxed YJ Guansu 4x4. Decided to have a solve and 50.77. Thats a white cube, what do I know


@Selkie - Looking forward to some comps in Cape Town, we're having one early December. As for a visit, it would be good meet up with another oldie cuber ;-) 

On the stickerless front ... All my cubes are black because that's what I started with. I then decided to change the standard shades to something a little more unique and now I sticker all my cubes with the same shades. The only draw back is getting the stickers and the only place I'm getting them for now is from TheCubicle. I'd like to try a good stickerless 3x3 but am not so keen on spending a bunch of cash on one that I may just use occasionally. But having said that I've spent money on some 3x3's that are just sitting in the cupboard ... kinda the same thing I suppose


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## JohnnyReggae (Sep 24, 2016)

@pglewis - Welcome to the oldie thread ... it is definitely one of the most active threads.

As for the Nb perm .. Have you tried the lefty mirror of the Na perm ? I use a bunch of lefty mirrors of certain algs which made them much easier to learn. The only drawback for me was when starting OH the lefty mirror algs don't OH so well, so I've had to learn a few more algs to do OH.


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## mafergut (Sep 24, 2016)

@pglewis Welcome to the thread. I'm 46 and have never been to a comp yet but would like to. I'm still figthing with consistently sub-20 global average but it's certainly possible for people our age. You just need to put the work and passion and you will get there eventually.


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## mafergut (Sep 24, 2016)

I didn't have the opportunity to event record a decent average last weekend so I tried again today. Got 4 cubes and tried to do several Ao5 with each, starting to record every 5 solves. I chose the Gan 356 Air, Guoguan Yuexiao, YJ Sulong and Moyu Hualong. I didn't even get to record with the Hualong and the best Ao5 was with the Yuexiao, which I bring here for everybody to critizice and laugh a bit at.

It's not even "on camera" PB but I wanted to show my new Rubik's mug  At least it's an Ao5 of just 5 solves, not the best solves extracted of the middle of a longer session, but all solves are super sloppy and, of course, I had to do a bad one at the end. I can't really turn even this not-so-fast without locking up, making mistakes, etc. so I don't really know what to do except slow down and try to have better lookahead. Increasing TPS is not gonna work for me as for you guys.



Spoiler: Scrambles and times



avg of 5: 17.81
1. (17.08) B2 F2 R2 B2 D2 L' B2 D2 R' U2 L D B D' L' U2 F U B' U2 L
2. 18.92 B2 F2 D' B2 L2 B2 U' B2 D' F2 B' L2 R' B' L R' U2 L2 D'
3. 17.39 L2 D' U' B2 D B2 F2 L2 U F2 U' L B' F2 D L B' F' D' L U'
4. 17.10 B U' F B' U B' U R' L' U R2 F2 B2 L2 U R2 D' L2 U' F
5. (23.51) B' L2 R2 D2 F R2 B2 F' L2 D L2 B2 L' B' R U' B L2


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## MarcelP (Sep 24, 2016)

mafergut said:


> I didn't have the opportunity to event record a decent average last weekend so I tried again today. Got 4 cubes and tried to do several Ao5 with each, starting to record every 5 solves. I chose the Gan 356 Air, Guoguan Yuexiao, YJ Sulong and Moyu Hualong. I didn't even get to record with the Hualong and the best Ao5 was with the Yuexiao, which I bring here for everybody to critizice and laugh a bit at.
> 
> It's not even "on camera" PB but I wanted to show my new Rubik's mug  At least it's an Ao5 of just 5 solves, not the best solves extracted of the middle of a longer session, but all solves are super sloppy and, of course, I had to do a bad one at the end. I can't really turn even this not-so-fast without locking up, making mistakes, etc. so I don't really know what to do except slow down and try to have better lookahead. Increasing TPS is not gonna work for me as for you guys.
> 
> ...


Really nice! I think you are a tad bit faster than me. I have a few pointers though. I see you look for your first pair every time. This is probably that even with the 30 seconds inspection (LOL) you probably do not plan your entire cross. If you do plan the entire cross you should be able to find your first pair while executing the cross. Other than that, I think you will speed up anyway.. Your lookahead will become faster eventually.


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## mafergut (Sep 24, 2016)

MarcelP said:


> Really nice! I think you are a tad bit faster than me. I have a few pointers though. I see you look for your first pair every time. This is probably that even with the 30 seconds inspection (LOL) you probably do not plan your entire cross. If you do plan the entire cross you should be able to find your first pair while executing the cross. Other than that, I think you will speed up anyway.. Your lookahead will become faster eventually.


Thanks for the feedback but I think *you* are a bit faster than me  I have absolutely no sub-10 singles, for example (and no sub-11 for that matter). You are completely right that I cannot usually see my first pair unless I have already planned it during inspection, which happens rarely. And you are right that I many times have problems seeing the last D alignment of centers after cross, if it is a D or D', which makes me waste some tenths on that and also blocks my lookahead to 1st F2L pair, so I should work on that. Regarding the 30 second inspection... not sure if it was a joke or what. I overinspected in the last, terrible solve, the others were all around 8-10 seconds inspection. Do you think I over/under inspect?


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## h2f (Sep 24, 2016)

@mafergut, Miguel - very nice average.


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## newtonbase (Sep 24, 2016)

mafergut said:


> I didn't have the opportunity to event record a decent average last weekend so I tried again today. Got 4 cubes and tried to do several Ao5 with each, starting to record every 5 solves. I chose the Gan 356 Air, Guoguan Yuexiao, YJ Sulong and Moyu Hualong. I didn't even get to record with the Hualong and the best Ao5 was with the Yuexiao, which I bring here for everybody to critizice and laugh a bit at.
> 
> It's not even "on camera" PB but I wanted to show my new Rubik's mug  At least it's an Ao5 of just 5 solves, not the best solves extracted of the middle of a longer session, but all solves are super sloppy and, of course, I had to do a bad one at the end. I can't really turn even this not-so-fast without locking up, making mistakes, etc. so I don't really know what to do except slow down and try to have better lookahead. Increasing TPS is not gonna work for me as for you guys.
> 
> ...


I spill tea down myself often with that mug.


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## pglewis (Sep 24, 2016)

Thanks for all the welcomes. I went back a few weeks in the thread time machine and have enjoyed reading the progress other folks are making... and picked up a few things without even trying to . 



JohnnyReggae said:


> [...] As for the Nb perm .. Have you tried the lefty mirror of the Na perm ? I use a bunch of lefty mirrors of certain algs which made them much easier to learn. The only drawback for me was when starting OH the lefty mirror algs don't OH so well, so I've had to learn a few more algs to do OH.



The one I have down in my spreadsheet ( probably picked up from Christopher Olsen) just reverses the U, D, and R moves of the Na perm. But I just added Na so no huge rush... the Ns come up with a 1/72 frequency each I think. I just tackled full PLL about 6 weeks ago. That's earlier than planned but I was about to learn a bunch of F2L optimization that was going to temporarily raise my times anyway and I figured I might as well start chewing on them. I had everything but the two Ns "learned" after a couple weeks but recognition and recall is an ongoing thing. I was hovering, plateaued, just a smidge under a minute ao5, like :58, when I started that process about a month and a half ago. Times ballooned to about 1:08 while absorbing stuff, and then all the new stuff started to come together at the same time. In quick succession I started seeing mid 50s, low 50s, then cracking sub 50 ao5s. My PB 3 of 5 is now 41.59 and I can feel I'm right on the brink of seeing a lot more sub 40s. 

I'm still at the stage where I only hit the timer once or twice a week and do a lot of slow solve practice to solidify things. I recently sat down and did a dozen timed runs on the individual Cross, F2L, and LL stages to evaluate.

Adding all the means: 44.269, which matches about where I am when warmed up and in "cube brain"

Worst of each: 1:05.763, right on the money for my botched solves

Theoretical best: 32.281, about 2 seconds better than my actual PB. I've had a few untimed solves that "felt" sub 30; a friendly F2L plus PLL skip should manage to catch a single sub 30 in the act before long. 



Here's my game plan based on those results:

* Cross: I'm definitely bleeding a few seconds on my averages due to the slower ones but not a lot of time to be gained on a "good solve" (keeping in mind I'm out to shed 20+ seconds, not 3). Those times are clear improvements from the last time I checked. Plan of attack: cross practice will happen as a byproduct of F2L practice, just keep doing what I'm doing and re-evaluate the cross when the F2L gains are harder to come by. 

* F2L: Averaging nearly 6 seconds per pair I needn't look elsewhere for low hanging fruit. Spotting pairs is still very slow for me after months of practice; it's simply a weak point for me. OTOH it's probably down 15+ seconds from where it was a little over a month ago. Plan of attack: keep pounding F2L with a focus on look-ahead. 

* Last Layer: all over the map, not surprisingly, I haven't put much effort at all into targeted last layer drills. 2 look OLL isn't costing me a lot at my current level vs the recognition full OLL would require, so that stays in the "re-evaluate later" pile for now. Still being green on full PLL means some of the algs are faster than others and there's a lot of staring time for recog and recall. Plan of attack: clearly some easy time to be had here with targeted PLL drills. I still may let it progress naturally and continue the focus on F2L. There is some comfort believing there will still be easy time to find after squeezing F2L .


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## newtonbase (Sep 24, 2016)

pglewis said:


> Thanks for all the welcomes. I went back a few weeks in the thread time machine and have enjoyed reading the progress other folks are making... and picked up a few things without even trying to .
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Welcome @pglewis 
I might be the first but I won't be the last person to suggest cross practice. Try a lengthy inspection and plan the whole cross then do it blind.


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## newtonbase (Sep 24, 2016)

I've just bought the new Moyu Mars as I'm pretty sure I don't own enough 3x3s. I had to add a 2x2 mastermorphix to the order too as I was 1p short on the minimum.


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## pglewis (Sep 24, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> Welcome @pglewis
> I might be the first but I won't be the last person to suggest cross practice. Try a lengthy inspection and plan the whole cross then do it blind.



I have no doubt you're right, just part of me says "save that for later and I'll still have easy time on the table at the next plateau" . Thinking bang for the buck I figured every second I cut off an F2L pair gets multiplied by 4... and there are definitely seconds to cut per pair. 

All my thinking out loud here aside I'll probably take your advice soon. On the cross I generally still aim to plan 3 edges and let the 4th "just happen". My spatial "cube sense" and short term memory are both innately quite poor and my improvements there have been through sheer force of will and stubbornness. On the strong side, I've played guitar as a very serious hobby for over 30 years, so learning algs and dexterity is probably pretty good for pushing 50. I'm no stranger to scales, repetition, and muscle memory and as a result I tend to still hand-wave past my slow last layer with "it'll get faster, don't worry, it'll just get faster".


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## mark49152 (Sep 24, 2016)

@pglewis: great stuff, I really like your approach, and I agree with you that F2L should be your focus. My recommendation would be to first make sure you have a good efficient set of solutions and understand how they work. Use a resource like AlgDB.net for that. Then, importantly, practice them blind. So use F2L scrambles (many timers do these), find each pair, then close your eyes and solve. Then open eyes and find the next pair and so on. This is important because it gets you used to solving pieces without watching them move around, which frees up your eyes for recognition of other pieces to solve next. You'll be amazed how quickly that will wipe 10 seconds off your F2L.


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## JanW (Sep 24, 2016)

@pglewis I've never timed the stages of my solves separately, but your post inspired me to give it a try.  Currently I tend to average around 27 seconds, and in this test my Ao12 for cross/F2L/LL was 4.2/14.4/9.5 (=28.1). I used 15 second inspection for cross and no inspection for F2L and LL.

Interestingly, if I look at these numbers to calculate a percentage of total solve time spent on each stage I get splits of 14.9%, 51.2% and 33.8%, which is very close to your 14.7%, 53.8% and 31.4%. I've spent most of my slow practice time drilling F2L. Cross and LL has come as a by-product of that. I think even if you spend most of the time practicing F2L, you will see the cross and LL times improve in relation to your F2L improvement.

Though in this test I did notice that I really should practice the cross more, with timed inspection. I only started doing 15 sec inspection quite recently and don't always succeed in planning the entire cross in that time. In this test, when I managed to plan the entire cross during inspection my cross times were in the 2-3 second range. But then there was a few 6-8 second crosses when I couldn't plan the entire cross. That's a 4-5 second difference I really need to get rid of!


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## MarcelP (Sep 25, 2016)

mafergut said:


> Do you think I over/under inspect?


Yeah, that was a joke. I noticed the one 30 secs inspection and laughed out loud.



newtonbase said:


> I've just bought the new Moyu Mars as I'm pretty sure I don't own enough 3x3s.


Where did you buy it? I am pretty sure I do not own enough 3X3's too


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## newtonbase (Sep 25, 2016)

MarcelP said:


> Where did you buy it? I am pretty sure I do not own enough 3X3's too


Here http://www.championscubestore.com/ Look for *Senhuan* which is the Moyu sub brand. They've called the cube the *Mar* in error which makes it impossible to search for.


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## mafergut (Sep 25, 2016)

MarcelP said:


> Yeah, that was a joke. I noticed the one 30 secs inspection and laughed out loud.
> 
> Where did you buy it? I am pretty sure I do not own enough 3X3's too



Yeah, I was not able to see anything good on that one last solve, hence the overinspection and, even with that, the really terrible solve. By the way, I have to say thank you again, as I think you have spotted my weakest point in 3x3 solving. I have decided to forget about everything else for some weeks and just focus on 3x3 again and, in particular in cross planning and cross-to-f2l transition.

Regarding that new sub-brand of Moyu... I don't think I can justify another 3x3 that looks like all the latest 3x3s, squared corners, rounded edges and all.


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## Escher (Sep 25, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> https://www.speedsolving.com/forum/threads/video-expert-f2l-russian-by-viktor-danilov.43416/
> 
> There were some really interesting discussions a few years back about what was important for good F2L and Rowan Kinneavy (@Escher) posted some great stuff. I can't find it now, but the gist of his and other posts was that lookahead goes hand in hand with things like selecting the right pairs to minimise rotations, preserving and predicting pairs, filling back slots first to keep more pieces visible, etc. It influenced me to see F2L as more of a holistic thing, rather than four separate steps... but your mileage may vary .



Here's a couple of old threads that might be what you're thinking of!

https://www.speedsolving.com/forum/threads/f2l-edge-orientation-guide.25525/

https://www.speedsolving.com/forum/threads/f2l-and-lookahead-guide-example-solves-not-a-video.24952/


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## mark49152 (Sep 25, 2016)

Escher said:


> Here's a couple of old threads that might be what you're thinking of!


Yes, great stuff, thanks! This forum is great for asking questions and having discussions, but if you go back and search older stuff it really is a goldmine of speedcubing advice. These threads are great examples of that.


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## mafergut (Sep 25, 2016)

Today I managed to get a 15.74 Mo3 on cam, with "on cam" PB single 13.93 while practising cross-to-f2l transition. The middle solve is just meh but it's in the middle, so I didn't cut it. Please tell me if you think the 1st and 3rd improve a bit on cross-to-f2l transition. I just cut the Mo3, the Ao5, even though it's also "on cam" PB (17.30) does not have any other interesting solves, just more of the same 18sec stuff.



Spoiler: Scrambles & times



mean of 3: 15.74
1. 13.93 R' F2 L2 B' L2 F2 R2 F L2 D2 F R2 U' R F' L U' L' B' U' L
2. 18.96 R' B U2 L' D' B' L' F' U' L' R2 F U2 R2 F L2 B' R2 B2 D2 B'
3. 14.31 U L2 D2 R2 B2 R2 B R2 F2 R2 D2 B D L' B D' L' B' F2 L U2


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## MarcelP (Sep 25, 2016)

@mafergut Nice! I had almost no time this week to practice. And today I did one Ao12 which I have on film. I can see I am finally improving after a two year plateau because I never had a sub 17.50 Ao12 on film before  This was just a normal practice session with even a few none Y/W crosses.



Spoiler



1. 15.51 U' R2 B2 L2 B2 D L2 R2 B2 L2 D L F R2 D2 U' B2 L' U' R
2. 20.46 D R2 F R2 F' L2 F2 R2 D2 B' D2 U2 R' B' U' F' R B D F2 R
3. 17.30 L' F L2 F U' L' U R F L2 B' L2 F' R2 F2 D2 F D2 F2 D
4. 19.43 U F2 B' U2 D R F2 L B F2 L2 U' B2 D' F2 R2 U' R2 U' R2
5. 16.29 D2 F2 U B2 D R2 U' R2 B2 U' F' L' F' U R D F L2 U'
6. 16.88 U' D2 B D2 F2 U2 R2 U2 F' D2 U2 R2 U R' D' L' R B' U L F'
7. 17.53 R2 D2 F2 U' F2 U2 F2 U' B2 R2 U' R D2 F2 L' F' D2 U' F2
8. 15.66 F' D2 F' L2 U2 F2 U2 B D2 R2 F2 L' D' R B' R2 D B' U L F'
9. 21.54 F2 U' B2 L2 D2 B2 L2 D2 U R2 U L U R U' L2 F' L B
10. 15.95 F' U2 L2 D2 B2 R2 B2 R2 D2 F' L2 D' L B2 F2 R2 B L' B' F2
11. 17.84 R2 U2 B F U2 L2 B U2 F D2 F' U L' F2 D' L2 R' U2 L' F'
12. 17.36 D L2 F2 L2 F2 U F2 R2 U2 F2 D' L R2 D2 B R U R' B F2 U2


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## mafergut (Sep 25, 2016)

MarcelP said:


> @mafergut Nice! I had almost no time this week to practice. And today I did one Ao12 which I have on film. I can see I am finally improving after a two year plateau because I never had a sub 17.50 Ao12 on film before  This was just a normal practice session with even a few none Y/W crosses



That's better that my Ao12 PB, on cam or otherwise  Very nice solves in there and even full color neutral. That Fangyuan looks like a Yuexiao that does not have corner-center catches. I might get one myself if the Valk is not what I expect. @newtonbase, please tell us how that Mars 3x3 performs, it's another good candidate to replace my Yuexiao. You will be wondering what happened with my Sulong, well, I still like it a lot but in the long run, the lack of reverse makes me want to come back to newer cubes.


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## pglewis (Sep 25, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> [...] Try a lengthy inspection and plan the whole cross then do it blind.





mark49152 said:


> [...]Then, importantly, practice them blind. So use F2L scrambles (many timers do these), find each pair, then close your eyes and solve. Then open eyes and find the next pair and so on.[...]



Y'all are just sneakily trying to get me doing bld! 

I was actually surprised that I can nearly do this with F2L now (slowly); cross, not so much. When I first transitioned from LBL to pairs I spent weeks just learning the ropes of F2L, how things move, what I can and can't do. I think I did this in the old Rubik's days too because I was getting flashbacks during that exercise. With my poor recognition I decided early on to just turn every case into corner and edge in the U face, white facing up. It wasn't always efficient but my times improved drastically because I could spot and setup that single case fairly quickly without a lot of looking around. That got me down to about a minute before stalling out and from there I started optimizing the cases that were taking the longest. Most of the solutions I'm using are reasonably efficient now... seems like every time I check one against algdb or another F2L reference that I'm doing the same thing but I'll inventory all of 'em at this point, I'm sure there are a few new tricks to pick up. Just trying out the blindfold method on my F2L pairs I've already found at least one case that I don't know exactly where the pieces end up before insertion, I've always had to peek at them which means any look-ahead I have gets interrupted for that case every time. 

I can tell this isn't going to be absorbed super fast for me but I can also tell this is going to really make an impact because it's forcing me to discover where I'm killing my look-ahead. Seems like such an obvious thing _now_.


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## mark49152 (Sep 25, 2016)

pglewis said:


> I was actually surprised that I can nearly do this with F2L now (slowly); cross, not so much.


Good to hear you're making progress. With F2L it's easier because there's a finite set of cases and most of it goes into muscle memory. Cross isn't like that. Every solution is different, muscle memory plays a much smaller part and it really feels like a different skill to do cross blind. I find F2L easy but still struggle with cross - I can do it, but mentally I have to focus on recall and even visualisation of the pieces, which means it's harder not to just look in a sighted solve. I agree with @newtonbase that it's the best cross training, but it takes a lot of work to make it pay off.


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## Logiqx (Sep 25, 2016)

pglewis said:


> Nearly 600 pages of old people? An old nub here, I'll be 49 in January and just went to my first comp this month.
> 
> I'm a first gen cuber, probably got my first cube around '82, old skool Rubik's brand of course. No internet in those days but I picked up a book at some point and could solve LBL probably somewhere in the 3 to 5 min range. The most recent new wave of interest kept bringing me into contact with cubes. I could remember about 90% but couldn't finish the last layer and that happened enough times that I finally hit the 'net in late winter to figure out how to solve again. Learned the beginners' LL, did that about twice before I decided it was ridiculous, and then I fell into the speedsolving rabbit hole.
> 
> ...


Welcome! Check my signature to see the performance of some over-40s in competition.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk


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## pglewis (Sep 25, 2016)

Logiqx said:


> Welcome! Check my signature to see the performance of some over-40s in competition.



Thanks, exactly what I was looking for. I found this while time-travelling the thread and have starred the GitHub repo so I can find it easily. Feel free to add my ragged 2x2 and 3x3 singles.


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## cmhardw (Sep 25, 2016)

Hi all! I'm a long time member saying hi for the first time in this thread. I know many of the posters in this thread already, but for those who I don't know my name is Chris. I've been a speedcuber for 18 years, pretty active that whole time. In the last 5 years or so I don't really train like I used to, but I cube enough to maintain most of my events. I like blindsolving, and big cubes blind in particular. I'm 32 and have recently started a job as an actuary. One day I will motivate myself to learn a letter pair Person-Action-Object memorization list, and this is the last major goal I set before I started winding down my cubing time. I am only the megaminx average, and 6x6x6 and 7x7x7 single and average away from having competed in all events in official competition. I am slowly working on this as well, but right now I am not fast enough in any of these events to make it past the cut-off times.

I am saying hi in this thread as I have not yet to my knowledge. I'm starting to see more and more that I think I would get along with the group that posts regularly in this thread 

Happy cubing!
Chris


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## h2f (Sep 25, 2016)

Hi Chris. Nice to see you in this thread. I'm not sure if you know but Grzesiek Jałocha works as a kind of actuary too. I'm not 100% sure but he mentioned it last time I saw him. I can see similiar path and it seems intresting to me.


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## mark49152 (Sep 25, 2016)

@cmhardw, great to see you post here! You are more than welcome and I'm sure many of us here know (of) you and your cubing accomplishments already .


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## mark49152 (Sep 25, 2016)

h2f said:


> @mark49152, Mark it doesnt work on obliques but maybe I'm wrong. For D layer I do easy comm like: [U r2 U', 2l] and its variations. If the targets are on D and U layer I setup U layer target to F side.


I finally got round to trying this on obliques and it works for me. Maybe we're talking about different algs. Assuming buffer is Ubr, my alg for Dbl is

l B2 d2 B2 l' U2 l B2 d2 B2 l'

If the l slice is inner, the d slice should be outer, and vice versa, depending which oblique group. My notation is probably wrong.

It's not a fast alg but I still have to resort to it in 4BLD sometimes when I mess up the chance to set up to something better.

I still haven't got round to trying a 6BLD and since work is pretty busy this week I'll be devoting any time I do have to practise for Guildford, where the only BLD event is 3BLD.

For UK oldies, the UK Champs schedule is now up. Cutoffs for 4x4 and 5x5 are harsher than usual at 1:20 and 2:15 respectively...


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## Shaky Hands (Sep 25, 2016)

Welcome @pglewis & @cmhardw!



h2f said:


> How I tried 6bld. Memo starts at 3:48. I've added English subs (my English is poor) for you guys. I hope you enjoy it.



Thanks for this. My success rate on 3BLD is pretty low but I still found this fascinating and look forward to seeing how you progress. Good luck.



mark49152 said:


> For UK oldies, the UK Champs schedule is now up. Cutoffs for 4x4 and 5x5 are harsher than usual at 1:20 and 2:15 respectively...



Ah well, I was a long way from the old cutoffs, so no complaints from me! The OH average cut is also lower than usual although oddly the 4x4 hard cut is higher.

I note MBLD and FMC are taking place at the same time. Time will tell as to how that will operate judge-wise.


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## Selkie (Sep 25, 2016)

@pglewis - Here are the main N perms I use on 3x3. I use a few different N's for bigger cubes.






Also great self critique and breakdown of your stages. With forethought and planning liek that you will be seeing great improvement soon 

@Escher - heh Rowan, great to see you drop by and looking forward to catching up at UKC in November. It has been far, far too long mate  For those who have not read it. This thread on practice by Rowan is awesome and required reading

https://www.speedsolving.com/forum/threads/how-to-practice.27870/

@cmhardw Wow, great to see you here Chris and the prospect of you contributing is awesome. I am sure we could all learn an awful lot from you. The thing that sticks in my mind most recently was your change to Colour Neutral in the last year or two. This is something I have always toyed with but never committed and I wonder if at 46 years old it will actually take me more time to get used to to make it pay off. I also watched your forum interview in the last couple of weeks. Great stuff sir 

-------

3x3 Update

Today I managed to get a PB Ao100 of 15.21. Unfortunately I inadvertently deleted the session but it was quite consistent with 2-3 sub 14 ao5's and a 14.75 ao12. Thats a 0.6 improvement in 2 weeks. Maybe sub 15 is attainable after all.

My Valk 3 seems to have slowed right up and I keep locking up on it which is frustrating. Tomorrow I will take it apart and lube it properly which I have not done yet so for now I am back on the X-Man Tornado and the above session was with that.

Some may remember I learned Winter variation but I have not been incorporating them in my solves. I did this with COLL a few years ago. I have decided to relearn both sets and after UKC in November I am going to enforce a couple of months of no timing to ensure I fully incorporate WV, COLL and about 10 bad BL slot F2L cases into my solves. Hoopefully this will give me the arsenal for sub 15 global. I can but hope ....


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## teacher77 (Sep 26, 2016)

Hey another 23.60 s ! This time was an H perm. And it's my second solve below 24 s ever.


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## Jason Green (Sep 26, 2016)

@cmhardw Awesome to have you join us! I got into speed cubing July 2015, and am not a historian of cubing by any means, but I am familiar with you and many of your world and continental records!


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## phreaker (Sep 26, 2016)

Finally a Sub 1 OH solve: 53.83. (ZZ) Working on Y neutral, and need to complete learning PLL. But you know... End the night on a high note.  45s you are next.

Cube used: Valk 3. Loving that cube OH. So smooth and predictable.


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## pglewis (Sep 26, 2016)

Selkie said:


> @pglewis - Here are the main N perms I use on 3x3. I use a few different N's for bigger cubes. [...]



The one's I have jotted down start with a z rotation, I like the sequence for some weird reason (E is another): 

z U R' D R2 U' R U D' R' D R2 U' R D'
z U' R D' R2 U R' D U' R D' R2 U R' D


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## pglewis (Sep 26, 2016)

Hardware at the moment: 

3x3:
Thunderclap V1: main, strongly considering a 2nd as a backup

2x AoLong V2, one stickerless, one half-bright: I still enjoy solves on both a lot but they feel so heavy after the Thunderclap now, almost like they're made of stone. 

Gans Air: I want to love it but for the distracting small catches still

Zhanchi: my first, trusty and serviceable. Still a good exercise to see how lazy my turning has become with the more modern cubes. 

2x2: 
WeiPo (and a couple cheap YuPos), planning to pick up a DaYan and a YueHun 'cause, hey, more cubes. 3x3 is my main focus but I found 2x2 incredibly addictive from the moment I got the first cheap one to try. 

4x4: 
Don't have one but that's next. AoSu most likely.


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## One Wheel (Sep 26, 2016)

pglewis said:


> 4x4:
> Don't have one but that's next. AoSu most likely.



Some other folks here recommended the Cyclone Boys G4 a while back. I have an Aosu, and it's undeniably a good cube, but if you ignore the price the G4 is, in my opinion, a slightly better cube. And the cherry on top is that it's about $8 cheaper, if I recall correctly. Stability is comparable between the two, but I could never get the inner layers on my Aosu anywhere near the speed of the outer layers, whereas the G4 both are quite fast. Especially after breaking in the Aosu also has a lot of flex, which can lead to catches. The G4 apparently tends to catch early and break in nicely. (I got mine lightly used, and never had a problem with it.) The G4 is a very loud cube, if that's an issue.


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## newtonbase (Sep 26, 2016)

Hi @cmhardw Good to see you here.


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## h2f (Sep 26, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> I finally got round to trying this on obliques and it works for me. Maybe we're talking about different algs. Assuming buffer is Ubr, my alg for Dbl is
> 
> l B2 d2 B2 l' U2 l B2 d2 B2 l'
> 
> ...



Thanks Mark. I was using the other version of the alg {l B d2 B' l'} U2 {l B d2 B' l'} and it could not work. Your version works fine. I will adapt it to my solves if I got targets on U and D layer. 



Shaky Hands said:


> Thanks for this. My success rate on 3BLD is pretty low but I still found this fascinating and look forward to seeing how you progress. Good luck.



Thank you. The words like this motivate me to keep doing it.


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## mark49152 (Sep 26, 2016)

pglewis said:


> The one's I have jotted down start with a z rotation, I like the sequence for some weird reason (E is another):
> 
> z U R' D R2 U' R U D' R' D R2 U' R D'
> z U' R D' R2 U R' D U' R D' R2 U R' D


Those are the ones I use. I really like <R,U,D> algs. When I discovered how nicely the Rowe E perm could flow if you get the finger tricks right, I did some research and switched most of my PLLS and some of my OLLs to <R,U,D>. I can post them if you're interested.



h2f said:


> Thanks Mark. I was using the other version of the alg {l B d2 B' l'} U2 {l B d2 B' l'} and it could not work.


I can't get that to work even on 4x4. The setup disturbs the wings on the U layer. Are you sure it's correct?

Anyway, now that I setup to comms for any U and D target that's adjacent to a side face target, it's quite rare that I have to use this alg. I did learn two comms for solving adjacent U and D face targets. One solves Ufl, the other solves Ubl, diagonal and adjacent pieces to my buffer, so they can easily be set up to solve any U/D pair. The problem is, those cases always make me pause horribly in solves and resort to the individual piece algs!


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## JohnnyReggae (Sep 26, 2016)

pglewis said:


> The one's I have jotted down start with a z rotation, I like the sequence for some weird reason (E is another):
> 
> z U R' D R2 U' R U D' R' D R2 U' R D'
> z U' R D' R2 U R' D U' R D' R2 U R' D


I'm not a fan of N perms and have tried a few different algs, but eventually have settled on some. The ones I use are the extended J-Perm algs ... They are longer than most but have a bunch of triggers which are quick to execute ... Start with a trigger, into a J-Perm, end with a slightly different sequence at the end

(R U R' U) (R U R' F') (R U R' U') (R' F) (R2 U' R' U2) (R U' R')

and for the Nb I use the lefty mirror ...

(L' U' L U') (L' U' L F) (L' U' L U) (L F') (L2 U L U2) (L'U L)


----------



## h2f (Sep 26, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> I can't get that to work even on 4x4. The setup disturbs the wings on the U layer. Are you sure it's correct?
> 
> Anyway, now that I setup to comms for any U and D target that's adjacent to a side face target, it's quite rare that I have to use this alg. I did learn two comms for solving adjacent U and D face targets. One solves Ufl, the other solves Ubl, diagonal and adjacent pieces to my buffer, so they can easily be set up to solve any U/D pair. The problem is, those cases always make me pause horribly in solves and resort to the individual piece algs!



Maybe you did wide moves instead of sinlge layer. In standard notation: 2L B 2D2 B' 2L' U2 2L B 2D2 B' 2L'

What comms you use for U/D?


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## mark49152 (Sep 26, 2016)

h2f said:


> Maybe you did wide moves instead of sinlge layer. In standard notation: 2L B 2D2 B' 2L' U2 2L B 2D2 B' 2L'
> 
> What comms you use for U/D?


No I did slices, but I must have screwed up somewhere. I'll post the comms later when I can log in from a PC.


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## mafergut (Sep 26, 2016)

@cmhardw Wow! It's a pleasure to have you here, in our oldie thread, Chris. You don't know me but I have read lots of interesting stuff by you in the forum and your big BLD achievements are well known. Hope you'll feel comfortable here and looking forward to having interesting discussions with you.


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## h2f (Sep 26, 2016)

I can buy only stickerless version of Valk3. Are the shades good at it or shall wait for sticker version when it's available?


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## Selkie (Sep 26, 2016)

@h2f - watched the 6x6 attempt video right through Grzegorz, really interesting. I look forward to see you progress. As for stickerless shades for the Valk 3 I personally think they are excellent. They seem exactly the same as the X-Man Design Tornado which you probably do not have in stickerless either to compare to!

@pglewis - The RUD N perms are very popular. I know when Breadan Vallance did a video of all sub 1 second PLLs a few years ago it was the RUDs he used for the N's. I do not favour D much and whilst I use it for A's, E and one G I much prefer RUF centric algs. Also another vote for the Cyclone Boys G4 here though I am not sure if it is available in stickered. All my cubes are stickerless now

--------

Today I decided to do a 2x2 - 7x7 relay or two. I had not done one before and felt that times probably meant on film it would be a length which would be uploadable to YouTube! Second attempt I got a sub 14 minute on film here:-






The splits are approximately:-
3x3 - 16s
2x2 - 8s
4x4 - 1m 08s
5x5 - 2m 14s
6x6 - 4m 03s
7x7 - 6m 10s

I did get extremely lucky with parities but I will be practicing trying to get down to 13 1/2 minutes soon 

I get pops on the Yuxin 6x6 every solve. It is the most frustrating cube I own and I just cannot wait for the new Moyu 6x6 to be released. You will see a pop on the 6x6 solve. I got a major internal mechanism pop scrambling the next attempt. Spent 15 minutes battling with trying to put it back together with major outbreaks of what can only be described as early onset tourettes. At the point I was disgusted with it it went in a cube bag in my drawer and I suspect will never be solved again. I will use teh Moyu Aofu 6x6 stickerless until I get the new Moyu. Not a huge fan of the pink instead of red but it has to be better than a popping Yuxin. Naughty, naughty cube


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## MarcelP (Sep 26, 2016)

Selkie said:


> My Valk 3 seems to have slowed right up and I keep locking up on it which is frustrating. Tomorrow I will take it apart and lube it properly which I have not done yet so for now I am back on the X-Man Tornado and the above session was with that.


Yeah, my Valk has slowed down also a bit. I cleaned it (and what a drama is it to put back together because of flipping center caps). I stick with the FangYuan for now which seems to become better with the day 



mafergut said:


> By the way, I have to say thank you again, as I think you have spotted my weakest point in 3x3 solving. I have decided to forget about everything else for some weeks and just focus on 3x3 again and, in particular in cross planning and cross-to-f2l transition.


I have analysed my solves and cross plus 1 takes me 3.5 secs on average. And complete F2l around 10 - 11. So my weakest point is definatly last layer  LL is hard for me to improve. Drilling algs does not work for me, because in real solves I will mess up because I will mix up triggers..



mark49152 said:


> Those are the ones I use. I really like <R,U,D> algs. When I discovered how nicely the Rowe E perm could flow if you get the finger tricks right, I did some research and switched most of my PLLS and some of my OLLs to <R,U,D>. I can post them if you're interested.


I also use the 
*Na* the z U R' D R2 U' R D' U R' D R2 U' R D' z'
but for 
*Nb* I use R' U L' U2 R U' M' B r' U2 R U' L. It is not found on the Wiki or algdb. But it is so nice...


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## mark49152 (Sep 26, 2016)

Selkie said:


> Naughty, naughty cube


I had the same problems with both the Yuxin and AoShi. Lockups with dislocated centres, with more severe cases escalating to pops. With both cubes it got a lot better with just an eighth of a turn tightening from stock tensions, but ultimately I concluded that these bigger cubes need a different technique that is both more accurate and gentler, so that my hands feel a lock coming before it even happens. 

I had pretty much the same experience on 5x5 when I first got into that, and these days rarely have a problem with it.


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## Selkie (Sep 26, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> I had the same problems with both the Yuxin and AoShi. Lockups with dislocated centres, with more severe cases escalating to pops. With both cubes it got a lot better with just an eighth of a turn tightening from stock tensions, but ultimately I concluded that these bigger cubes need a different technique that is both more accurate and gentler, so that my hands feel a lock coming before it even happens.
> 
> I had pretty much the same experience on 5x5 when I first got into that, and these days rarely have a problem with it.



I think it is as a result of increased TPS coupled with my lazy turning style. At Exeter I was globally about 4:50 on 6x6 and now about 4:10. That extra TPS is related directly to extra pops it seems. I pop the Moyu a lot less frequently and I think I know why. When the Moyu is about to lock it offers a lot more resistance to the turn and at speed I can feel I dont have it aligned and compensate. The Yuxin offers little resistance when its not aligned, I keep turning and oops!


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## One Wheel (Sep 26, 2016)

Selkie said:


> Also another vote for the Cyclone Boys G4 here though I am not sure if it is available in stickered. All my cubes are stickerless now.



Mine is black stickered.


----------



## newtonbase (Sep 26, 2016)

h2f said:


> I can buy only stickerless version of Valk3. Are the shades good at it or shall wait for sticker version when it's available?


I don't have any issues with them. Here's a couple of pics to compare with a Yuxin 5x5 and a Thunderclap if that helps.


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## newtonbase (Sep 26, 2016)

A pic went missing


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## MarcelP (Sep 26, 2016)

Oh man... the cube gods are really messing with me..

1. 11.11 U' B2 L2 D B2 L2 U L2 R2 D R2 B' R D U' L D2 R2 B R' D
2. 22.84 L2 R2 D2 F2 U B2 U' L2 B2 R2 U' F' R2 F L R2 F' D2 B F' U'
3. 13.49 F D2 F2 D2 B2 U R2 U' B2 D' F2 L D2 U R2 B D2 F R'
4. 22.84 U2 R2 F' L2 D2 B' D2 B' U2 L2 F' U' R U2 F L' F' D2 L
Arggg!


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## h2f (Sep 26, 2016)

@Selkie, @newtonbase, Mark and Chris - thanks for a feedback. I've ordered one.


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## newtonbase (Sep 26, 2016)

Broke my 3BLD PB at lunch by 7s. Much slower memo than my previous PB but no pauses in execution as a result. 

I vote for the G4 too but beware of fakes on Amazon. I got one to review. It was too big, the colours were wrong and it was rubbish.


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## mafergut (Sep 26, 2016)

MarcelP said:


> Yeah, my Valk has slowed down also a bit. [...]
> 
> I have analysed my solves and cross plus 1 takes me 3.5 secs on average. And complete F2l around 10 - 11. So my weakest point is definatly last layer  LL is hard for me to improve. Drilling algs does not work for me, because in real solves I will mess up because I will mix up triggers.



I'm already disappointed with my Valk3 even before I got it. I hope this is not a new case of Moyu Tanglong. A cube that you can only use for 500 solves and then it's rendered unusable and cleaning, lubing, etc. will do nothing to make it good again.

Regarding LL I also need to improve my LL. I would like at least to reach @Logiqx speed. Michael makes algs seem so effortless and fluid. But I don't think I have the innate skills to do that. Anyway, drilling and good selection of algs does something and there's also some time to be shaved off by better recog (like 2-sided for PLL). But I think there's much more time I can shave on cross+F2L that I'm gonna focus on that for the moment. At least I hope I can consistently get more 15-to-17 sec solves and get my long averages down to sub-18 or even mid-low 17.



MarcelP said:


> Oh man... the cube gods are really messing with me..
> 
> 1. 11.11 U' B2 L2 D B2 L2 U L2 R2 D R2 B' R D U' L D2 R2 B R' D
> 2. 22.84 L2 R2 D2 F2 U B2 U' L2 B2 R2 U' F' R2 F L R2 F' D2 B F' U'
> ...



Same feeling here with my Mo3 video from yesterday. Times going like 19.xx, 13.xx, 18.xx, 14.xx, 18.xx.


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## MarcelP (Sep 26, 2016)

mafergut said:


> I'm already disappointed with my Valk3 even before I got it. I hope this is not a new case of Moyu Tanglong. A cube that you can only use for 500 solves and then it's rendered unusable and cleaning, lubing, etc. will do nothing to make it good again.



No, don't worry. It is a great cube. But for me it is too small. If it was 56 mm I would do everything in my power to keep it as a main.


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## Selkie (Sep 26, 2016)

@MarcelP - Oh I feel for you and you know how I can throw away great averages. Nearly threw away the 12.77 ao5 but a day later I had 11, 11, 10 ...... 19, 18 Haha 

@newtonbase - Grats on the PB Mark 

@mafergut - I hope so too Miguel. Cleaning and re-lubing this evening. I hope it is not a repeat of the MoyuBochuang 5x5 that did the same. The reason I feel more confident that it won't its Qiyi plastic doesnt usually go so quickly. Will report back later


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## pglewis (Sep 26, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> Those are the ones I use. I really like <R,U,D> algs. When I discovered how nicely the Rowe E perm could flow if you get the finger tricks right, I did some research and switched most of my PLLS and some of my OLLs to <R,U,D>. I can post them if you're interested. [...]



Most of the PLLs I took from Christopher Olson's PLL fingertrick vids on YouTube. Since he demos all of 'em at a second or less I know they have high potential even if some don't turn out to fit my style. One goofy exception is my rotated U perms with the 3-bar on the left which I started using early on because I can do the opening and closing R2 much better than F2: R2 U' S' U2 S U' R2

I absolutely love what folks have done in alg research in the past 15 years. Any algs I turn out not to like will have LOTS of candidates for replacement!


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## pglewis (Sep 26, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> [...] I vote for the G4 too but beware of fakes on Amazon. I got one to review. It was too big, the colours were wrong and it was rubbish.



Between the votes in here and the wallet vote, G4 it is! I might as well work up for a 3rd event for my next comp.


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## pglewis (Sep 26, 2016)

pglewis said:


> Most of the PLLs I took from Christopher Olson's PLL fingertrick vids on YouTube. Since he demos all of 'em at a second or less I know they have high potential [...]



Oh, and the other thing I like about his alg selection is he keeps a strong eye on ones he can perform without a re-grip. Re-grips are the Devil.


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## JohnnyReggae (Sep 26, 2016)

pglewis said:


> I absolutely love what folks have done in alg research in the past 15 years. Any algs I turn out not to like will have LOTS of candidates for replacement!


If you want to look for alternate algs check out algdb ... http://algdb.net/

It's not definitive and there are more here ...

https://www.speedsolving.com/wiki/index.php/PLL

https://www.speedsolving.com/wiki/index.php/OLL


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## Selkie (Sep 26, 2016)

Been doing some slow solves. I filmed a slow turning sub 20 average of 12 last year and linked it here but we have had a lot of new regulars. I always found most slow turning average videos had a very fast last layer and being older I could not relate to attaining that so this is slow turning throughout the solves from beginning to end. Might be useful for some new members. Apologies for those who saw the one last year. These solves are by no means completely fluid but hopefully will give motivation to some:-

3x3 Slow Turning Ao12 - 19.41 Seconds


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## pglewis (Sep 26, 2016)

Selkie said:


> Been doing some slow solves. I filmed a slow turning sub 20 average of 12 last year and linked it here but we have had a lot of new regulars.



Man, sooooo smoooooth. This is exactly the sort of thing that made me move the goalposts to an official sub 20 average: seeing proof that I already turn more than fast enough to attain that with proper look-ahead. 



Selkie said:


> I always found most slow turning average videos had a very fast last layer and being older I could not relate to attaining that so this is slow turning throughout the solves from beginning to end. [...]



The kids definitely have an advantage but I consider muscle memory "the great equalizer". I timed my Jb perm last night and I can definitely get it in 2.5 seconds, which is 5.6 TPS for a trigger-friendly alg I have committed to muscle memory, and that's with maybe 6 months of serious cubing and a month and a half of knowing the alg. Another year to 18 months and my raw TPS for last layer might almost be respectable. F2L pairs, though... it would cause physical pain for you to watch a solve of mine. It's amazing how often I still find myself looking around the cube twice for an edge that's right in front of me. I have some weird cousin of dyslexia, I swear. With a guitar background I'm super comfortable with forcing my fingers to do things they're not the least bit interested in doing. I was exclusively a flat-picker until about 4 or 5 years ago when I decided to force myself to get used to a thumbpick, picking up an entirely new technique in my mid 40s. A few years later and I almost feel like I know what I'm doing on a good day. The technique involves covering the bass, rhythm, and melody simultaneously, which works out real well... when you can't afford a band .


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## megagoune (Sep 26, 2016)

Selkie said:


> Been doing some slow solves. I filmed a slow turning sub 20 average of 12 last year and linked it here but we have had a lot of new regulars. I always found most slow turning average videos had a very fast last layer and being older I could not relate to attaining that so this is slow turning throughout the solves from beginning to end. Might be useful for some new members. Apologies for those who saw the one last year. These solves are by no means completely fluid but hopefully will give motivation to some:-
> 
> 3x3 Slow Turning Ao12 - 19.41 Seconds


I agree with @pglewis, it is inspiring to see a "slow solve" like this. It brings my motivation up.

On another topic, I decided to take my old zhanchi out. I put 2 drops of cubicle silk in, and somehow I beat my PB! ao5 of 21.43. So apparently, it's not all due to hardware . 
But anyway, I will continue ordering the newest cubes.


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## Shaky Hands (Sep 26, 2016)

I did my 15000th timed 3x3 solve earlier today and thought I'd share my progress:



Spoiler




Solve #'sMo1000Sub-25'sSub-20'sPB single1 - 100001:37.800000:42.xx1001 - 200000:46.780000:27.xx2001 - 300000:38.305000:21.xx3001 - 400000:34.682000:21.xx4001 - 500000:33.1314000:21.xx5001 - 600000:32.1723000:20.xx6001 - 700000:31.4836000:20.xx7001 - 800000:30.8739100:19.xx8001 - 900000:30.2861100:19.xx9001 - 1000000:29.7794000:19.xx10001 - 1100000:29.2291200:18.xx11001 - 1200000:28.29192500:17.xx12001 - 1300000:26.722691200:17.xx13001 - 1400000:26.083491000:17.xx14001 - 1500000:25.833732200:14.xx




Slow advancements perhaps but I'm still heading in the right direction regardless. 

PS: Nice playing @pglewis. I play guitar myself (2x electric, 1x electro-acoustic and 1x classical in this very room) although you're well ahead of me skill-wise. I just strum along to the 20 or so chords I know with D-DU-UDU and similar patterns or do very simple finger-picking. Much like cubing, guitar is something I've learned from the internet.


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## Selkie (Sep 26, 2016)

@pglewis - Awesome guitar skills there sir. I have heard a lot of synergy over the last few years with cubing and guitar and piano. As for turnspeed, I agree that with the right muscle memory we can attain a fair pace. I timed all my PLLs a couple of years ago and I can sub 2 second all of them.

The act of looking for pieces right in front of you remains with me to this day. The most promising thing is once you start solving the case you are on without looking and start being able to look ahead the pieces will be far easier to spot moving than static.

@megagoune - Glad you found it useful. I often do an average on my Lubix Zhanchi. It was my main for 3 years though I do feel now how far hardware has come in recent years when I solve on it now.

@Shaky Hands - Wow, great progress Andy. You certainly are headed in the right direction mate


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## pglewis (Sep 26, 2016)

Selkie said:


> [...]The most promising thing is once you start solving the case you are on without looking and start being able to look ahead the pieces will be far easier to spot moving than static.[...]



Yeah, I can tell this is going to end up inducing some big epiphanies. Y'all have done me well here in just a couple days of milling around .


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## mark49152 (Sep 26, 2016)

@pglewis, great stuff, you got me digging out some old favourites now


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## Jason Green (Sep 27, 2016)

The f2l that seems to throw me the worst is the easy case (RUR') when it's already in position for the slot. It's like my brain excludes the possibility that it could be sitting there ready to go. 

Great playing @pglewis!


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## mark49152 (Sep 27, 2016)

Jason Green said:


> The f2l that seems to throw me the worst is the easy case (RUR') when it's already in position for the slot. It's like my brain excludes the possibility that it could be sitting there ready to go.


Yeah I get that too. I think it's related to Chris's phenomenon where pieces are harder to find when static. And the phenomenon where keys are hardest to find when they are left in the door


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## Logiqx (Sep 27, 2016)

pglewis said:


> Feel free to add my ragged 2x2 and 3x3 singles.



@pglewis: I've added you to the list - https://github.com/Logiqx/wca-ipy/blob/master/README.md

@cmhardw: It is great to see you introduce yourself in this thread. Congrats on all of your achievements and thanks for contributing to my understanding of cube theory.


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## MarcelP (Sep 27, 2016)

Selkie said:


> 3x3 Slow Turning Ao12 - 19.41 Seconds


I have watched it a few times last year and watched it today again. Pure magic. Such inspirational video.

I tried that too:


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## newtonbase (Sep 27, 2016)

Must remember to check orientation before memo!


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## Selkie (Sep 27, 2016)

@MarcelP - Yesterdays was a new video. the old one was actually sub 19 but I think the LL is a lot slower in yesterdays. Been trying to get a sub 15 ao5 with slow F2L, 2/3 speed LL on film. That isn't quite as easy! Yeah Felik's sub 10 slow turn is a whole lot of insanity , F2L witchcraft and ZBLL stuff, just awesome 

@newtonbase - Ouch!


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## megagoune (Sep 27, 2016)

MarcelP said:


> I have watched it a few times last year and watched it today again. Pure magic. Such inspirational video.
> 
> I tried that too:



Good one 
I really find this slow tunrning videos amazing. It looks so effortless.
When I do some slow turning I find it relaxing, and it shows to yourself how much you progressed. When I do a slow solve, it feels so easy and I get times that I would not be able to achieve one year ago, it just feels great.


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## Selkie (Sep 27, 2016)

I cannot promote slow turning enough. I do various sessions of practice at different speed. Whether untimed extremely slow (~30s per solve) exploratory solves looking at how the pieces move round the cube and looking how an F2L case affects other pieces to ones like my video trying to keep perfectly fluid (and failing) to comfortable TPS right up to as fast as my hands can turn. It is amazing what fluidity can do. I get regular 12.x full step singles with very slow F2L and full speed LL.

Mixing up the speed is a great way of getting your mind to snap out of automated solving, something that happens all too often when your times plateau, certainly to me. Solving at a different pace almost puts me in a different mindset.


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## muchacho (Sep 27, 2016)

I've done some slow turning solves, I did like 20 to warm up and then filmed this 24.131 Ao5.





_Solves start at 23 seconds, 1:05, 1:53, 2:43 and 3:30_

Some pauses, and sometimes turning faster than I was trying, but it was fun, and better times that I expected, I'll practice this.



Spoiler



28234 27-sep-2016 15:58:21 00:22.750 R2 D' B2 D' U' B2 U' B2 R2 B2 R2 B R2 D2 L' B R' U B L' F2
28233 27-sep-2016 15:57:34 00:22.328 D' U2 F2 L2 D' R2 U' B2 F2 L2 U2 R' F2 L U' B R2 U' L' U' L U2
28232 27-sep-2016 15:56:43 00:26.920 F2 D R2 F2 U L2 U R2 L2 U2 L D' U2 F' R B R2 D2 B' L2 U'
28231 27-sep-2016 15:55:57 00:26.278 F2 D R2 U' F2 U L2 D B2 L2 D R' F' U' F2 D' U2 L' B R' B' U2
28230 27-sep-2016 15:55:14 00:23.367 D2 B2 U' L2 U F2 L2 U' L2 F2 U F' U F U R' D F D' U F U'


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## pglewis (Sep 27, 2016)

I should be doing hard-core blind pair training but I got sidetracked last night solving straight to checkerboard because a friend thought it sounded like a fun challenge lol. Had to revert to 2-look PLL but it was a fun diversion that had me giggling (it was late). 

I'm curious about some optimization for F2L cases that aren't covered in the basics. F2L 32 (triple sexy case) where the edge isn't in the proper slot, for example. I currently do double sexy, then AUF and insert, but it seems like there might be some optimization based on where the destination is. I'm sure there are other cases as well (besides open slot optimization). Anyone have any resources for those sorts of tricks?


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## Logiqx (Sep 27, 2016)

pglewis said:


> I should be doing hard-core blind pair training but I got sidetracked last night solving straight to checkerboard because a friend thought it sounded like a fun challenge lol. Had to revert to 2-look PLL but it was a fun diversion that had me giggling (it was late).
> 
> I'm curious about some optimization for F2L cases that aren't covered in the basics. F2L 32 (triple sexy case) where the edge isn't in the proper slot, for example. I currently do double sexy, then AUF and insert, but it seems like there might be some optimization based on where the destination is. I'm sure there are other cases as well (besides open slot optimization). Anyone have any resources for those sorts of tricks?



My favourite tricks for that case:

Edge from FL to BR: R2' D' F2 D R2
Edge from FR to BR: (R' F R F') (R' U' R)

You can find these kind of tricks in advanced F2L videos and by playing around yourself.


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## teacher77 (Sep 28, 2016)

31.47 s average of 10. Steady towards 30. 

I should try to film an entire series of 10 and post it here to get your comments. I've seen some of you guys use frontal cameras. Any specific brand/model to recommend ? Cheap ideally.


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## teacher77 (Sep 28, 2016)

muchacho said:


> I've done some slow turning solves, I did like 20 to warm up and then filmed this 24.131 Ao5.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I like how your "slow turning" is faster than my PB ao5 ;-)


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## teacher77 (Sep 28, 2016)

I have a theoretical question. I've seen here and there some people post about "setting up" for an alg ? Does that refer to a systematic way to make a slight modification to an alg in order to perform it from another angle ? If so, how does it work ? And if not, what is it then ?

Thanks for your kind help, as always


----------



## Jason Green (Sep 28, 2016)

teacher77 said:


> 31.47 s average of 10. Steady towards 30.
> 
> I should try to film an entire series of 10 and post it here to get your comments. I've seen some of you guys use frontal cameras. Any specific brand/model to recommend ? Cheap ideally.


I film everything with my Galaxy S5.


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## sqAree (Sep 28, 2016)

Logiqx said:


> My favourite tricks for that case:
> 
> Edge from FL to BR: R2' D' F2 D R2
> Edge from FR to BR: (R' F R F') (R' U' R)
> ...



The first trick can be very fast when executed like R2 u' R2 u R2.


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## Shaky Hands (Sep 28, 2016)

teacher77 said:


> I have a theoretical question. I've seen here and there some people post about "setting up" for an alg ? Does that refer to a systematic way to make a slight modification to an alg in order to perform it from another angle ? If so, how does it work ? And if not, what is it then ?
> 
> Thanks for your kind help, as always



If you reverse an alg you can set up a case.

e.g.: to practice the easy T-case OLL (F R U R' U' F') then the reverse of this is F U R U' R' F' which will allow you to practice the case. Or to set up the other T-case OLL (R U R' U' R' F R F') then the reverse of this is F R' F' R U R U' R'.

See also the badmephisto video on this:






BTW, cool "easter egg" at the end of the video.


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## teacher77 (Sep 28, 2016)

Jason Green said:


> I film everything with my Galaxy S5.



?? How do you hold it ?


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## teacher77 (Sep 28, 2016)

Shaky Hands said:


> If you reverse an alg you can set up a case.



Thanks, but that's not what I mean. 

For example, I've seen someone describe the Gd perm alg as "you start with R U R' y' *to set it up*, and then you go 
R2 u' R U' R' U R' u R2". 

Maybe I just imagined there was an easy way to convert each alg to other angles. Is there ?


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## Jason Green (Sep 28, 2016)

teacher77 said:


> ?? How do you hold it ?


I use a tripod like this, I'd like a more stable one though. I saw one kid use a 6x6 with every other piece turned about 30 degrees as a tripod. 

http://m.everbuying.net/product1115267.html

Actually before the tripod I would just lean my phone against something.


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## JohnnyReggae (Sep 28, 2016)

Selkie said:


> I cannot promote slow turning enough. I do various sessions of practice at different speed. Whether untimed extremely slow (~30s per solve) exploratory solves looking at how the pieces move round the cube and looking how an F2L case affects other pieces to ones like my video trying to keep perfectly fluid (and failing) to comfortable TPS right up to as fast as my hands can turn. It is amazing what fluidity can do. I get regular 12.x full step singles with very slow F2L and full speed LL.
> 
> Mixing up the speed is a great way of getting your mind to snap out of automated solving, something that happens all too often when your times plateau, certainly to me. Solving at a different pace almost puts me in a different mindset.


Chris, your slow solves are certainly inspirational and show what can be done just using look ahead effectively. I like your advice and think I should really start doing that. Most of my solves are timed and I'm always trying to push it which also means that a lot of what I do is automatic including inserts and setup moves that are not optimal. I'm not a fan of untimed solves because I get bored with them relatively quickly, but I like the idea of attempting slow solves. I have to admit that I've done that a few times are work when I should really be working but just have to get a few solves in. Then I turn slowly to minimise the cube noise ;-) ... which is also one of the reasons I like the GAN v2 as it's the quietest cube I have


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## Logiqx (Sep 28, 2016)

Oh yeah. Getting closer to being globally sub-30!

*Title: 3x3x3 OH*
Scrambler: 3x3x3 Simple
Session: 7
# of solving: 19
# of penalty: 0
# of DNF: 0
Std Dev: 1.813
Best of all: 22.954
Worst of all: 35.351
*Average of all: 29.603
Best Avg of 5: 28.360
Best Avg of 12: 29.230*

---- Generated by KingEn Timer v3.3

Solving times: 27.088 29.452 29.438 33.091 28.032 30.988 32.876 27.373 27.825 31.442 29.884 27.066 35.351 28.747 30.298 30.842 22.954 30.249 28.574


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## h2f (Sep 28, 2016)

Logiqx said:


> Oh yeah. Getting closer to being globally sub-30!



Nice. I'm back to OH i trying to be sub40 right now.


----------



## Shaky Hands (Sep 28, 2016)

teacher77 said:


> Thanks, but that's not what I mean.
> 
> For example, I've seen someone describe the Gd perm alg as "you start with R U R' y' *to set it up*, and then you go
> R2 u' R U' R' U R' u R2".



My take on this is that moves like R U R' are simple triggers before the rest of the alg that are often referred to as setups.

For instance, look at these N-perms that incorporate J-perms:

Na: (R U R' U) (R U R' F' R U R' U' R' F R2 U' R' U') (U' R U' R')
or... (setup) (J-perm) (undo setup)

Nb: (L' U' L) (R' U L' U2 R U' R' U2 L R U') (L' U L)
or... (setup (J-perm) (undo setup)



teacher77 said:


> Maybe I just imagined there was an easy way to convert each alg to other angles. Is there ?



I don't think there's a catch-all approach for this. Setups affect more than just angles, otherwise they would just be x, y and z rotations.


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## muchacho (Sep 28, 2016)

h2f said:


> Nice. I'm back to OH i trying to be sub40 right now.


Roux or CFOP this time?


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## PlainCuber (Sep 28, 2016)

Jason Green said:


> I don't drink until I'm done with practice for the night in general. Although sometimes after drinking some I'll decide to practice a bit more, but that practice "doesn't count".


Kind of like when I try first thing in the morning before having mass quantities of coffee. lol


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## h2f (Sep 28, 2016)

muchacho said:


> Roux or CFOP this time?



Roux. I like this method in OH - I can get random sub35 solves without any practice. I'm changing few CMLLs to OH.


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## kbrune (Sep 28, 2016)

Hello my fellow moldy oldies!

I've just realized I have a serious problem with my cube storage situation. Up until 6 months ago (maybe 8) I didn't have very many cubes. And all 5 or 6 of them had their own paper storage container. Now i have 20 ish and still only 5 or six have their own container. Because I travel an hour each way for work. I just keep them all in a book bag. This way. I always have them close by. I almost always have my bag with me. 

Since my last comp in April. There are a bunch I have touched since I haven't practiced as much. I pulled out all my cubes yesterday and all the ones that were at the bottom (about 8 of them) were in pretty rough shape! Stickers gone or stuck to other cubes. Dirt and grime build up. 

I felt like a crackhead parent who neglects their kids!! 

On to my question. Do any of you haul around many of your collection with you like I do? If so what do you use to store your cubes in?


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## Logiqx (Sep 28, 2016)

kbrune said:


> Hello my fellow moldy oldies!
> 
> I've just realized I have a serious problem with my cube storage situation. Up until 6 months ago (maybe 8) I didn't have very many cubes. And all 5 or 6 of them had their own paper storage container. Now i have 20 ish and still only 5 or six have their own container. Because I travel an hour each way for work. I just keep them all in a book bag. This way. I always have them close by. I almost always have my bag with me.
> 
> ...


Right now, I have a 2x2, two 3x3's, 4x4, 5x5 in the backpack that I use to take my laptop to and from work.

Ordinarily I only have 2 cubes in my work bag. I keep them in the front compartment and they seem to be ok.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk


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## newtonbase (Sep 28, 2016)

kbrune said:


> Hello my fellow moldy oldies!
> 
> I've just realized I have a serious problem with my cube storage situation. Up until 6 months ago (maybe 8) I didn't have very many cubes. And all 5 or 6 of them had their own paper storage container. Now i have 20 ish and still only 5 or six have their own container. Because I travel an hour each way for work. I just keep them all in a book bag. This way. I always have them close by. I almost always have my bag with me.
> 
> ...


I always have a 3x3 on me and often carry a couple of other cubes in a bag to work but nowhere near as many as you. This week is a bit of an exception as there's a competition at the weekend so I have at least one of each WCA puzzle (except 6x6 and 7x7) but they still fit in my bag. I would need a suitcase for the whole collection. 

Some people use a metal case with foam cutouts to keep their cubes safe at competition.


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## pglewis (Sep 29, 2016)

MarcelP said:


> I also use the
> *Na* the z U R' D R2 U' R D' U R' D R2 U' R D' z'
> but for
> *Nb* I use R' U L' U2 R U' M' B r' U2 R U' L. It is not found on the Wiki or algdb. But it is so nice...



As weird as that M' B r' sequence is I've adopted that Nb for now. It starts the same as the Ja I'm using so was easy to memorize and with my Na being very new I have less chance of confusing me with the two for now. 



Logiqx said:


> My favourite tricks for that case:
> 
> Edge from FL to BR: R2' D' F2 D R2
> Edge from FR to BR: (R' F R F') (R' U' R)



These are my new favorite things in the world, they turn up more frequently than the "standard" alg. I should have figured out the sledge based one for adjacent, but I wouldn't have figured out the diagonal one on my own with a month of experimenting.


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## Logiqx (Sep 29, 2016)

Quotes of the day from a lady who'd been sat next to me for 15 mins whilst I was doing untimed solves:

"Have your managed to do it yet?"

"Do you manage it every day?"

Lol

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk


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## mafergut (Sep 29, 2016)

Been quite busy with work to be able to properly follow this thread or to be able to get any real practice.
@pglewis So nice gitar video. I love it!
@Logiqx I have to try those F2L cases. Thanks! And very nice OH times, I wish I was at least sub-40. Sub-30 looks so impossible to me.
@Selkie , @muchacho Nice slow solving, guys!

I received my Valk3 yesterday and I had like half an hour to do some slow solves. I think it will be my new main but I will have to do some timed ones to make sure it is equally good when pushing TPS. Very nice cube indeed and I don't find it too small, it's just perfect. I got the stickerless one so I will have to adapt a bit my recog, more used to black plastic on 3x3 but if I could get used to it on 4x4 and up I don't see why it should be a problem on 3x3.

I also got a Weilong GTS but this one I didn't even have the time to open the box.


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## h2f (Sep 29, 2016)

mafergut said:


> I received my Valk3 yesterday and I had like half an hour to do some slow solves.




I had to drive with my son to his school in the morning. When I was back the postman left the message I can pick up my delivery tomorrow in the office.


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## Selkie (Sep 29, 2016)

Fellow UK oldies, just a heads-up that I will not be able to make Guildford Sunday. Got a family member who is unwell but looking forward to UKC. Hope you have a great time and go get some over 40 records


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## Logiqx (Sep 29, 2016)

Selkie said:


> Fellow UK oldies, just a heads-up that I will not be able to make Guildford Sunday. Got a family member who is unwell but looking forward to UKC. Hope you have a great time and go get some over 40 records



That's a shame but family comes first. Hopefully see you in Bristol.


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## newtonbase (Sep 29, 2016)

Logiqx said:


> Quotes of the day from a lady who'd been sat next to me for 15 mins whilst I was doing untimed solves:
> 
> "Have your managed to do it yet?"
> 
> ...


I was congratulated on my ability to solve my *jigsaw* at the weekend!


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## MarcelP (Sep 29, 2016)

Selkie said:


> Fellow UK oldies, just a heads-up that I will not be able to make Guildford Sunday. Got a family member who is unwell but looking forward to UKC. Hope you have a great time and go get some over 40 records


Oh man, I was looking forward to your new 3X3 times. I hope your family will be well soon!


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## MarcelP (Sep 29, 2016)

I have been filming the whole week in the hopes to catch a PB on film. I took the week off from work just to practice (and relax and spend time with family). I think I did about 200 timed solves a day from which 100 - 150 on camera.. No PB's and not even great Ao12's.. LOL I think the higher TPS I am using is working against me. But I did however catch a LL skip on cam yesterday (it is on my youtube for the ones who care). I did film quite a bit of full step 12 and 13's and a 10 with skip. Here is one of the nice full steps. Cross + 3 in 5 seconds  Complete F2L + OLL sub 10! 

Reconstruction


Spoiler



3. 12.46 D' L2 D2 L' F' D' L D2 F' R2 F U2 B D2 R2 D2 F' R2 D
y'// Inspection I see the G/O pair
R D' R' // CROSS (3)
U' U' y L' U L // 1ST (6)
R U' R' L U' L' // 2ND (6)
U' R U' U' R' U R U' R'// 3RD (9)
y U' R U' U' R' U R U R'// 4TH (11)
U' F R U' R' U' R U R' F' // OLL (9)
U2 R U R' U' R' F R2 U' R' U' R U R' F' U'// PLL (16)
//12.46 IN 60 MOVES = 4.73 tps


It is the second solve in the video, and I added the slow motion part so I could see the times


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## mafergut (Sep 29, 2016)

MarcelP said:


> I have been filming the whole week in the hopes to catch a PB on film. I took the week off from work just to practice (and relax and spend time with family). I think I did about 200 timed solves a day from which 100 - 150 on camera.. No PB's and not even great Ao12's.. LOL I think the higher TPS I am using is working against me. But I did however catch a LL skip on cam yesterday (it is on my youtube for the ones who care). I did film quite a bit of full step 12 and 13's and a 10 with skip. Here is one of the nice full steps. Cross + 3 in 5 seconds  Complete F2L + OLL sub 10!



I saw the video, you managed to get another sub-10 thanks to the LL skip. It was also an AUFless LL skip if I saw it right!!! I'm sure that if and when I get a LL skip I'll waste it on a terrible solve.


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## Shaky Hands (Sep 29, 2016)

Sorry to hear that @Selkie, hope the weekend goes as smoothly for you as possible.


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## MarcelP (Sep 29, 2016)

mafergut said:


> I saw the video, you managed to get another sub-10 thanks to the LL skip. It was also an AUFless LL skip if I saw it right!!! I'm sure that if and when I get a LL skip I'll waste it on a terrible solve.


LOL.. I probably will mess up the next LL skip. But now I have to wait a 15000 solves. My little boy was talking to me and I was kind of distracted the whole time. I did also not realise I had a LL skip. I thought I had a PLL skip... ha ha ha, but at least I saw the skip comming. I noticed all the yellow pieces and noting to permute


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## mark49152 (Sep 29, 2016)

@Selkie, that's a shame, we'll miss you. Hope you can make UKC!


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## Logiqx (Sep 29, 2016)

Guildford competition is getting closer.

Tonight was my final commuter session with consistent times in both events.

I'm looking forward to catching up with you guys!

OH


Spoiler



Title: 3x3x3 OH
Scrambler: 3x3x3 Simple
Session: 8
# of solving: 27
# of penalty: 0
# of DNF: 0
Std Dev: 2.021
Best of all: 23.458
Worst of all: 34.993
Average of all: 30.013
* Best Avg of 5: 28.243
Best Avg of 12: 28.883
Best Avg of 25: 29.794*

Solving times: 31.621 32.727 25.562 31.124 29.476 29.568 26.543 31.366 28.203 26.958 30.688 33.302 29.979 27.593 30.086 30.305 27.118 23.458 30.471 31.609 29.882 34.993 29.095 30.653 31.337 32.756 32.317



3x3 - 100% sub-20


Spoiler



Title: 3x3x3 Cube
Scrambler: 3x3x3 Simple
Session: 49
# of solving: 30
# of penalty: 0
# of DNF: 0
Std Dev: 1.163
Best of all: 13.624
Worst of all: 19.998
Average of all: 17.141
* Best Avg of 5: 16.352
Best Avg of 12: 16.426
Best Avg of 25: 16.990*

Solving times: 16.614 16.992 16.618 17.591 15.052 18.676 18.067 18.381 19.231 13.624 15.638 16.694 16.725 16.783 19.764 17.034 16.338 15.084 17.202 15.718 17.051 19.113 16.137 16.148 17.901 19.998 19.930 16.220 17.818 16.142


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## newtonbase (Sep 29, 2016)

Logiqx said:


> Guildford competition is getting closer.
> 
> Tonight was my final commuter session with consistent times in both events.
> 
> ...


I'm looking forward to it too. It'll be good to meet up with you guys again. 

I have PBs covered as I'm in 2 new events and it'll take 3 DNFs to stop me getting another PB in 3BLD. Unfortunately I've not done a timed 3x3 solve since July and I've had no time to clean or lube my cubes but there's a nice big break on Saturday afternoon where I can prep for Sunday.


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## pglewis (Sep 29, 2016)

Toy delivery day! 

Thunderclap V1: Okay, now I don't know what my main actually _is_ lol. My main Thunderclap is the Cubicle premium version. The pictures of the Thunderclap V2 didn't look like the same design as mine, so I ordered the V1. This is not it... however, I still really like it a lot right outta the box. Pretty much the same first-turn impressions as the reviews: super fast, maybe too much, noisy/clacky. So one more cube I like for variety, but now I still need a backup main. 

G4: Very dry, scratchy, and loud-ish straight from the box. I was warned they're on the loud side and that's no issue. I'm sure to break it in learning to solve (haven't even looked into 4x4 methods yet) and I won't touch tensions or lube until then. 

DaYan 2x2: A little stiff with spring noise out of the box but I really like the solid feel. 

KungFu YueHun: Smooth and fast on first turns. Not as smooth feeling as my premium WeiPo but it hasn't been lubed at all yet.


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## Logiqx (Sep 29, 2016)

OK. I've finished packing. 







Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk


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## newtonbase (Sep 30, 2016)

Logiqx said:


> OK. I've finished packing.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Blimey. You know there's no MBLD, right?


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## Jason Green (Sep 30, 2016)

Logiqx said:


> Quotes of the day from a lady who'd been sat next to me for 15 mins whilst I was doing untimed solves:
> 
> "Have your managed to do it yet?"
> 
> ...


That's great! I had a waitress ask a while back how many times I had solved it. So I got to say, "oh thousands."


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## JohnnyReggae (Sep 30, 2016)

Got hold of a decent stickerless cube yesterday a GuoGuan YueXiao ... 2nd hand, but well looked after. Feels and turns similar to my black stickered YueXiao. Struggling a little with the recognition when solving and the green and yellow are quite close ITO shades so in dull light it is quite hard to make out which is which.

I have had a few good times considering the recognition struggle, but it I'll be sticking with a black stickered cube as my main for now. I would like to try some other stickerless cubes that have different colours with some high contrast to see if they are any better, although I'm not keen on spending a lot of cash on that at the moment.


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## mafergut (Sep 30, 2016)

@JohnnyReggae Stickerless for the win! 
I'm finding my Valk3 stickerless quite nice. I just did like 20 timed solves with it and no good times as I was not warmed up but... yeah, I still think it could be my new main... and I didn't unbox the Weilong GTS yet.


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## h2f (Sep 30, 2016)

mafergut said:


> I'm finding my Valk3 stickerless quite nice. I just did like 20 timed solves with it and no good times as I was not warmed up but... yeah, I still think it could be my new main...


I got mine yesterddy and I'm delighted - this is best cube I ever got - so fast, light and controlable. I've heard about lockups but in my turning style it happedn only in the beginning. More over - I had lockups during Gperm when I did on Thunderclap, but on Valk3 they are so smooth and easy. I've found only one problem - it's hard for me to get used to stickers shades - my lookahead is worse. First ao100 - 20.39.


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## bubbagrub (Sep 30, 2016)

On my way to Guildford now. See some of you there tomorrow!

I've been almost exclusively practising square-one for the past few months, hoping to get an average. It's touch and go, as my global average is now around 38 seconds, and the soft-cut is 45 seconds...

I'm going to be interested to see what effect not practising has had on the other events... I guess it won't be good...


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## JohnnyReggae (Sep 30, 2016)

I find it quite strange how certain algs will come up more often during solves. Today I've done an ao100 and I would say that almost every 6th or 7th solve needed the Gb perm to finish, probably a bit of an exageration but it certainly felt like it  . Yesterday it was the Rb perm. The problem I find that the more often a certain alg comes up the more poorly I end up doing that alg.


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## JohnnyReggae (Sep 30, 2016)

h2f said:


> I've found only one problem - it's hard for me to get used to stickers shades - my lookahead is worse. First ao100 - 20.39.


That is the same problem I've run into trying my new stickerless YeuXiao. Some time and practice would probably sort that out though.


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## Logiqx (Sep 30, 2016)

JohnnyReggae said:


> I find it quite strange how certain algs will come up more often during solves. Today I've done an ao100 and I would say that almost every 6th or 7th solve needed the Gb perm to finish, probably a bit of an exageration but it certainly felt like it  . Yesterday it was the Rb perm. The problem I find that the more often a certain alg comes up the more poorly I end up doing that alg.


Goggle the birthday paradox. 

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk


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## JohnnyReggae (Sep 30, 2016)

Logiqx said:


> Goggle the birthday paradox.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk


 A lot of maths that I don't understand  But I get the basis of it and probability theory ...


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## Logiqx (Sep 30, 2016)

JohnnyReggae said:


> A lot of maths that I don't understand  But I get the basis of it and probability theory ...


Basically, think of your solves as the people and the PLLs as the birthdays.

The odds of having a bunch of identical PLLs in a session is much higher than you'd expect through intuition.

In an average of 5 there is a probability of over 45% that two of the PLLS will be the same. In an average of 12 it is over 99%.

Counterintuitive but true!

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk


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## h2f (Sep 30, 2016)

JohnnyReggae said:


> That is the same problem I've run into trying my new stickerless YeuXiao. Some time and practice would probably sort that out though.



I'm gonna to buy a black one and to change stickers to my favorite full bright. The stickerless is my son's now.


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## Shaky Hands (Sep 30, 2016)

Logiqx said:


> Basically, think of your solves as the people and the PLLs as the birthdays.
> 
> The odds of having a bunch of identical PLLs in a session is much higher than you'd expect through intuition.
> 
> ...



I've had an N-perm in every 3x3 average I've recorded in comp.

EDIT: Or at least that's the way I remember it.


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## mark49152 (Sep 30, 2016)

Logiqx said:


> In an average of 5 there is a probability of over 45% that two of the PLLS will be the same. In an average of 12 it is over 99%.


I'm aware of the phenomenon but didn't realise it was quite so high as 99%. That's surprising. 

I am about 1/3 of the way to Guildford. What on earth am I doing driving so far just to twiddle some plastic toys.


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## phreaker (Sep 30, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> I'm aware of the phenomenon but didn't realise it was quite so high as 99%. That's surprising.
> 
> I am about 1/3 of the way to Guildford. What on earth am I doing driving so far just to twiddle some plastic toys.



Enjoying a hobby?

Why do people play with little pieces of paper in odd patterns? (Cards)
Why do people move controllers to control images on their TV? (Video Games)
Why do people collect sports cards?
Why do people play board games?

We enjoy them.


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## Logiqx (Sep 30, 2016)

I'm in Guildford now. I've got a bit of administration to do on the laptop then I can eat, relax and play with some toys. 

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk


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## mark49152 (Sep 30, 2016)

phreaker said:


> Enjoying a hobby?


Of course, it wasn't meant seriously!


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## phreaker (Sep 30, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> Of course, it wasn't meant seriously!


There are some who might question their sanity at such moments .


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## Shaky Hands (Sep 30, 2016)

Guildford Gang...

Hope you all get there safely if you're still travelling. Will see you in the morning. Hopefully I'll get there in time for Clock although I'm determined to get a fry-up first. Enjoy some beers if you meet up tonight, or the 49152 alternative of choice.

Cheers one 'n all.


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## mark49152 (Sep 30, 2016)

phreaker said:


> There are some who might question their sanity at such moments .


Exactly. 8 hours round trip driving. Others would probably question my sanity too. But it's not just for the puzzles, it's the excellent company, and those guys 100% understand


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## newtonbase (Sep 30, 2016)

There has been a bit of confusion at home. Mrs Base was convinced that I was doing Saturday only so family plans have been made for Sunday. This means I'll miss out on food and beers tomorrow. 
I'll miss 3x3 and my skewb debut will have to wait but I still get 5 events.


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## Logiqx (Sep 30, 2016)

Doh. That's a shame.

It'll be good to see you tomorrow. 

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk


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## h2f (Sep 30, 2016)

I must say Valk 3 is amazing for me. I did ao 100 in the evening session. It looks like I used to color shades. Usually I have over20 averages in the night sessions but now I manged to get 19.49 with nice plenty of solves and 16.95 ao5.


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## JanW (Sep 30, 2016)

Good luck to you all at the competition!

I got some new cubes today. Kung Fu 2x2 and 4x4 are both great! The 4x4 turns much better than my CB C4. But I should add that I don't know anything about how to set one up, nor have I broken the CB in properly (probably <100 solves), so this is just out of the box impressions. Especially the middle layers on the Kung Fu are much easier to turn.

2x2 is much faster than my LingPo, almost a bit too fast. I might consider playing around with some tensions. Not that I'd now anything about how to set up a 2x2 either.

While playing with it, I found a very nice PBL (actually PLL) alg:
R' U R' B2 R U' R' F2 R2

(Perform with bar towards you.)

For me this was faster to execute than the T-perm almost immediately after I discovered it.

The Valk sounds like an amazing cube! Maybe I'll just have to place yet another order soon.


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## pglewis (Sep 30, 2016)

pglewis said:


> Thunderclap V1: Okay, now I don't know what my main actually _is_ lol. My main Thunderclap is the Cubicle premium version. The pictures of the Thunderclap V2 didn't look like the same design as mine, so I ordered the V1. This is not it... however, I still really like it a lot right outta the box. Pretty much the same first-turn impressions as the reviews: super fast, maybe too much, noisy/clacky. So one more cube I like for variety, but now I still need a backup main.



The Cubicle says the premium is indeed based on the V1. The two feel like entirely different cubes but I may have finally convinced myself it's the same base cube with a close inspection. The off the shelf one seems to have more rounded edges around the cube but I believe that's mostly an illusion due to the fitted stickers on the custom one. The edges _look_ smaller and thus sharper, so my brain accepts that they are. The plastic feels different and definitely sounds different but I can probably attribute that to the lube. The premium version is nowhere near as fast but the unlubed stock one is probably a tad too fast. Solves are very enjoyable on both, so I win no matter what.


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## newtonbase (Sep 30, 2016)

I bought a case for my cubes. I'm not sure why, it was a bit of a whim. At least it gave my wife a laugh when she discovered me tearing lumps of foam out of it.


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## JanW (Sep 30, 2016)

Finally a PB-single that beat my old LL-skip from several months back! Improved old pb by over 1.5 seconds.

17.24 U B2 R2 D L2 R2 D U2 L' U' B' R' U L' D' L' R F2

Last layer was Anti-sune and PLL skip. I tried to reconstruct immediately, but I have absolutely no idea what I did during F2L. I remember the cross, but can't even recall which F2L pair I solved first.

Cube was a stickerless Cong's Design MeiYing, which I got today. This is also a pretty nice cube, I must say.


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## mark49152 (Sep 30, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> I bought a case for my cubes. I'm not sure why, it was a bit of a whim. At least it gave my wife a laugh when she discovered me tearing lumps of foam out of it.


That foam's a nightmare. I bought my case on the way to North London in April and tore the foam out in the hotel room. The bits went everywhere and got charged with static so they were impossible to brush off. There were foam fragments stuck up the walls and all over the furniture. And worst of all, it got in some of my cubes!


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## newtonbase (Sep 30, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> That foam's a nightmare. I bought my case on the way to North London in April and tore the foam out in the hotel room. The bits went everywhere and got charged with static so they were impossible to brush off. There were foam fragments stuck up the walls and all over the furniture. And worst of all, it got in some of my cubes!


I remember you telling me. Mine has ready cut columns that are only loosely connected so you can rip them out quite neatly. I still made a bit of a mess fitting my pyraminxs and realised too late that I should have made space for my timer but it's not too bad.


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## Logiqx (Sep 30, 2016)

I have a feeling that I might be suffering from case envy this weekend. 

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk


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## megagoune (Sep 30, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> I remember you telling me. Mine has ready cut columns that are only loosely connected so you can rip them out quite neatly. I still made a bit of a mess fitting my pyraminxs and realised too late that I should have made space for my timer but it's not too bad.


Can you post a picture? I'd like to see how it turned out.


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## pglewis (Sep 30, 2016)

JanW said:


> 2x2 is much faster than my LingPo, almost a bit too fast. I might consider playing around with some tensions. Not that I'd now anything about how to set up a 2x2 either.



Is that the YueHun? I just got the same one yesterday and agree on the speed... though I'm unsure if it's "too fast", or if my others would feel "too slow" after using it a bunch . As my sig shows, I'm a real tortoise on 2x2 still but it's soooooo addictive.


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## pglewis (Sep 30, 2016)

Also, all you folks at the UK comp are certainly familiar with "POIDH"?


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## JanW (Sep 30, 2016)

pglewis said:


> Is that the YueHun? I just got the same one yesterday and agree on the speed... though I'm unsure if it's "too fast", or if my others would feel "too slow" after using it a bunch . As my sig shows, I'm a real tortoise on 2x2 still but it's soooooo addictive.


Yes, that should be the same cube. Cube names can be very confusing sometimes... I also have a YueHun/Kung Fu 3x3, but that one is nowhere near as good as the 2x2 or 4x4.

I agree 2x2 is kind of addictive. I haven't done any timed solves with the new one yet. I'll probably try to do an Ao100 soon.


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## newtonbase (Oct 1, 2016)

megagoune said:


> Can you post a picture? I'd like to see how it turned out.


 
I still have a bit of space so might keep my accessories there. Or start doing megaminx.


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## h2f (Oct 1, 2016)

Good luck for all at competitions.


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## Logiqx (Oct 1, 2016)

It's Saturday! Today is a warmup for my main events (tomorrow) and a chance to catch up with people.


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## SenorJuan (Oct 1, 2016)

Nice case, Mark, you need to get a stackmat timer in there, too. Mike has one in his DeLuxe model Size 16 shoebox, I noticed.

And Good Luck to you all at Guildford.


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## megagoune (Oct 1, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> View attachment 6965
> I still have a bit of space so might keep my accessories there. Or start doing megaminx.


That looks great! Nicely done. I definitely have case envy now.


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## mafergut (Oct 1, 2016)

Good luck to all of you already at the tournament or going to. I wish you plenty of PBs guys!
I finally had time to try the Weilong GTS this weekend and, well, it's very nice. Probably even a bit better than the Yuexiao but I find it a bit more unstable so I can't control it as well. The other problem is that I have already tried the Valk3 and, oh man, I love that cube. It retains a perfect square shape, it's stable, smooth... probably the best cube I've ever had.
Right now I'm still undecided so I'll have to do an Ao100 with each and see which one gives me the best times. I just wish I could be a bit faster than my last Ao100s but, for now, the little practise I've been able to get on cross-to-F2L transition is not giving any tangible fruits... other than the realization that most of the time I was not really planning the whole cross but just the 4 edges, leaving center alignment for during the solve, which block my lookahead into 1st F2L pair. It's going to be hard to get rid of that bad habit.

Also I'll have to review my Goals as September has ended and, sadly I did not achieve all of them. Problem here is that until end of November I'm gonna be terribly busy with work so you'll be seen me very little around here and I will be practising very little also. So, I'm going to be very conservative with my goals for end of the year.


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## megagoune (Oct 1, 2016)

Ready for my 2 to 5 relay.


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## Logiqx (Oct 1, 2016)

*4x4 - 1:30 soft-cut*

*Solve 1* - 1:39.21... good solve until I messed up the PLL parity, went back to F2L and then had to do the parity all over again!

*Solve 2* - I spent 13 seconds looking for one of the edges and only just made the cut!


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## Jason Green (Oct 1, 2016)

Logiqx said:


> *4x4 - 1:30 soft-cut*
> 
> *Solve 1* - 1:39.21... good solve until I messed up the PLL parity, went back to F2L and then had to do the parity all over again!
> 
> ...


Nice job! 1:29 is pretty much best case for my 4x4 right now, unfortunately my next comp has a 1:20 soft cut.


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## MarcelP (Oct 1, 2016)

I did not make the soft-cut. In fact I totally blew both my 4X4 attempts today..


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## pglewis (Oct 1, 2016)

MarcelP said:


> I did not make the soft-cut. In fact I totally blew both my 4X4 attempts today..





FWIW, I just started my foray into 4x4 and the world of connecting dedges... which as far as I can tell mostly entails forgetting to re-align my centers and not realizing it for 2 minutes.


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## h2f (Oct 1, 2016)

mafergut said:


> the Valk3 and, oh man, I love that cube. It retains a perfect square shape, it's stable, smooth... probably the best cube I've ever had.



That's my opinion too. It's the best cube I've ever had. I've kept solving since yesterday and I've finished with sub-19 ao100 when I used to stickerless colors. I've also beaten my pb ao5 by a almost 1 second from 16.59 to 15.65. It's a part of pb ao12 (17.43). Luckily I got it on cam:






Now I have a dilemma - I gave my Valk3 to my son and I have to buy a new one. Black or stickerless? Unluckily I'll do it next month (my budget for cubes is done this month).


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## newtonbase (Oct 1, 2016)

SenorJuan said:


> Nice case, Mark, you need to get a stackmat timer in there, too. Mike has one in his DeLuxe model Size 16 shoebox, I noticed.



Mike's shoe box is very impressive. I spotted my timer next to the case as I was making holes but it was too late to make space. 

My main target at Guildford was a sub 3 PB in 3BLD. I got DNF, 2:48.13 and 2:52.64 so left with a smile on my face. Also got a 2:03 in my last practice solve before the round which is a 25s PB.


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## MarcelP (Oct 1, 2016)

I had a great day at the Dutch Nationals. Became 3rd in the 40 plus category  I had my second sub 20 average ever.. And took 5 secs of my Pyraminx average. Fist solve was 12 but it was a plus 2 (not really but I did not want to argue with my 10 year old judge.. LOL)


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## MarcelP (Oct 1, 2016)

h2f said:


> That's my opinion too. It's the best cube I've ever had. I've kept solving since yesterday and I've finished with sub-19 ao100 when I used to stickerless colors. I've also beaten my pb ao5 by a almost 1 second from 16.59 to 15.65. It's a part of pb ao12 (17.43). Luckily I got it on cam:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Awesome! What OLL did you do at 53 secs?


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## h2f (Oct 1, 2016)

MarcelP said:


> I had a great day at the Dutch Nationals. Became 3rd in the 40 plus category  I had my second sub 20 average ever.. And took 5 secs of my Pyraminx average. Fist solve was 12 but it was a plus 2 (not really but I did not want to argue with my 10 year old judge.. LOL)



Nice, very nice! Congrats sub20 and pb in pyraminx. 



newtonbase said:


> Mike's shoe box is very impressive. I spotted my timer next to the case as I was making holes but it was too late to make space.
> 
> My main target at Guildford was a sub 3 PB in 3BLD. I got DNF, 2:48.13 and 2:52.64 so left with a smile on my face. Also got a 2:03 in my last practice solve before the round which is a 25s PB.



Nice and congrats!

@MarcelP - it was PLL 52. I do it: R' U' R U' R' U y' R' U R B.


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## Logiqx (Oct 1, 2016)

Summary of day 1:

- 2x2 solves were poor but they allowed me to get me used to the competition environment
- Pyraminx was decent until the last solve when my muscle memory failed me. I tried the last alg 4 times!
- 4x4 was comical. I only qualified for an average by 0.004 seconds! PB single - 01:15.89
- 6x6 was unexpected. I was aiming for sub-8 and beat my home PB by 18 seconds! PB single - 06:29.50

It was great to catch up with everyone and I'm looking forward to tomorrow.

2x2x2 - 7.21, 9.05+, 6.71, 6.71, DNF - 7.66 average
Pyraminx - 10.58, 7.82, 9.71, 8.70, 15.79 - 9.66 average
4x4x4 - 01:39.21, 01:29.99, 01:21.98, 01:27.66, 01:15.89 - 01:26.5 average
6x6x6 - 06:29.50


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## MarcelP (Oct 1, 2016)

Logiqx said:


> Pyraminx - 10.58, 7.82, 9.71, 8.70, 15.79 - 9.66 average



I was so happy with my Pyra average of 16.35 untill I saw your worst score was faster than that.. LOL I will be looking out for your 3x3 times tomorrow. I hope to see some wild results  Good luck man!


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## Jason Green (Oct 1, 2016)

Nice work guys! @MarcelP I would've argued for sure, or gotten a delegate.


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## MarcelP (Oct 1, 2016)

Jason Green said:


> Nice work guys! @MarcelP I would've argued for sure, or gotten a delegate.


No, it was not that important to me. I have a 8sec official single so 12 or 14 does not really matter to me


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## Jason Green (Oct 1, 2016)

MarcelP said:


> No, it was not that important to me. I have a 8sec official single so 12 or 14 does not really matter to me


Oh I guess because of the video thumbnail I thought 3x3, but this was pyraminx? Nevermind. I probably wouldn't even notice they said +2.


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## moralsh (Oct 1, 2016)

@Marcel good job! but please, please, stop the timer faster, you can shave .2 or .3 there 
@Logiqx @mark49152 @newtonbase good luck tomorrow!

I've been quite busy lately and don't plan to have any time son after a couple of weeks after Spanish nationals (next week). Expecting PBs on mega and 4BLD and 5BLD if I don't DNF, let's see how that turns out.

@muchacho @mafergut : quite a lot of comps in Spain this fall, any chance you can make it to any?

Everybody else congrats on the PBs I must have missed in the last month, I'll try to get back to posting soon.


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## One Wheel (Oct 1, 2016)

h2f said:


> (my budget for cubes is done this month).


 It's pretty early in the month for that.


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## teacher77 (Oct 2, 2016)

Jason Green said:


> I use a tripod like this



ok, so I guess the video is a lateral view or something ? I'd like to film from the actual point of view where I look at the cube. Any advice ?


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## teacher77 (Oct 2, 2016)

Hey I hot a new PB today : 31.05 for an Ao10. And I nearly broke my Ao5 (I got 28.94 s)


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## Jason Green (Oct 2, 2016)

teacher77 said:


> ok, so I guess the video is a lateral view or something ? I'd like to film from the actual point of view where I look at the cube. Any advice ?


Sometimes I film over my shoulder by mounting this tripod on a chair. If you want from your actual head view the only thing I know of is something like a GoPro.


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## teacher77 (Oct 2, 2016)

Shaky Hands said:


> My take on this is that moves like R U R' are simple triggers before the rest of the alg that are often referred to as setups.
> 
> For instance, look at these N-perms that incorporate J-perms:
> 
> ...



Ahhhh that's probably what it was. 

and btw, thanks for those beautiful algs ! Where did you get them ?




Shaky Hands said:


> I don't think there's a catch-all approach for this. Setups affect more than just angles, otherwise they would just be x, y and z rotations.



Yes, of course. Too bad then.


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## teacher77 (Oct 2, 2016)

I just did an average of 50 PLLs (recognition + execution) and I got 6.14 s. How is that split, considering that my current 10+ averages are always around 32-33 seconds ?

I must add that I'm amazed at how small a gain this is compared to 2look PLL (my Ao100 for 2 look PLL's, recognition+exec, was 7.97 sec !) That means that the 7-8 seconds improvement in my solves is mostly due to faster F2L !


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## One Wheel (Oct 2, 2016)

Maybe I should put this in a blind discussion thread, but this thread is often that anyway:

It seems like I'm stuck on the puzzle rather than the memorization. What I mean is that I'm taking enough time figuring out my sequences that I have to go back and check at least my first few corners after I'm fine m done figuring out edges. And even when I do figure it all out and finish a solve, except for a single lucky solve a month ago the best I've gotten is two flipped edges away. I'm using straight OP, figuring that I should figure out what I'm doing first, then find better ways to do it. And for some reason learning algs is hard for me. 

Should I go ahead and learn m2 and hope the faster execution time helps? Is there any cure for what I'm doing wrong other than more practice? I feel like I'm getting close, but at this rate it will be another few months, and a matter of decades before I get to big blind, which is what's really interesting.


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## pglewis (Oct 2, 2016)

MarcelP said:


> I had a great day at the Dutch Nationals. Became 3rd in the 40 plus category  I had my second sub 20 average ever.. And took 5 secs of my Pyraminx average. Fist solve was 12 but it was a plus 2 (not really but I did not want to argue with my 10 year old judge.. LOL)



_*notes you hitting the Stackmat reset every time*_

Here's a little comedy of errors from my 3x3 attempts at my only comp:

1: I completed inspection, put my hands on the timer, and it doesn't go green. I've had no prior experience with the Stackmat so I had no clue what to do. I was ready to go before 8 seconds, I say "it's not turning green!" twice and the judge reaches over and resets the timer. By this time I'd hit a mini-panic as the 12 second notice was already given before he got to the reset. My brain went into hijack, it found no match for fight or flight, so it chose "freeze". I completely lost what I had planned for the cross and it was a chore trying to get any information to the logical part of my brain. I might as well have had a cube with 36 different colored stickers on it. Took forever to get through F2L, misread OLL, misread PLL twice, and finally decided to just abort and take a few deep breaths.

2: Brain still hasn't come out of hijack. Solved like 6 F2L pairs incredibly slowly then botched the PLL leaving me half-scrambled. Again, decided to bail and see if I could get my head straight.

3: I felt calmer, planned out a decent cross, put my hands down, timer doesn't go green. Again I alert the judge like three times not understanding anything about the timers, but he seems out of his depth. I finally raise my hands off the timer in a shrug and the timer starts. The judge consults the delegate, I explained, and his advice was since the timer was running I should be solving (this wasn't the least bit rude, just matter of fact). I started figuring out the cross again at over a minute.

4: The cube bobbles out of my hand at the end of PLL and I drop it while stopping the timer, ending in a +2 lol

5: 1:10 felt like a victory in the moment


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## newtonbase (Oct 2, 2016)

One Wheel said:


> Maybe I should put this in a blind discussion thread, but this thread is often that anyway:
> 
> It seems like I'm stuck on the puzzle rather than the memorization. What I mean is that I'm taking enough time figuring out my sequences that I have to go back and check at least my first few corners after I'm fine m done figuring out edges. And even when I do figure it all out and finish a solve, except for a single lucky solve a month ago the best I've gotten is two flipped edges away. I'm using straight OP, figuring that I should figure out what I'm doing first, then find better ways to do it. And for some reason learning algs is hard for me.
> 
> Should I go ahead and learn m2 and hope the faster execution time helps? Is there any cure for what I'm doing wrong other than more practice? I feel like I'm getting close, but at this rate it will be another few months, and a matter of decades before I get to big blind, which is what's really interesting.


Looks like you need to practice your orientation. Ignore the solve for now. Also, take time to get a really strong memo on corners so you can be confident when you go back to them. Maybe try practicing corners on a 2x2. It's never too soon to learn M2. 



pglewis said:


> _*notes you hitting the Stackmat reset every time*_
> 
> Here's a little comedy of errors from my 3x3 attempts at my only comp:
> 
> ...


First comps are for experience and for setting targets to smash in your second comp. Looks like you've learned plenty. 

It's good practice to always check the timer before a solve and to reset it after the solve is recorded whether you are judging or competing. But you know that now!


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## Jason Green (Oct 2, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> It's good practice to always check the timer before a solve and to reset it after the solve is recorded whether you are judging or competing. But you know that now!



Technically it's the judges responsibility, but I always check out myself first thing. Easier than trying to get a re-scramble for sure.


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## MarcelP (Oct 2, 2016)

One Wheel said:


> It's pretty early in the month for that.


LOL,.... It does not get earlier than the 1st


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## h2f (Oct 2, 2016)

MarcelP said:


> Fist solve was 12 but it was a plus 2 (not really but I did not want to argue with my 10 year old judge.. LOL)



One can see the pyra only during few frames but it looks like it's far from +2. And as far as he touched the cube the delegate should give you an extra attempt. 


One Wheel said:


> It's pretty early in the month for that.



Yes but I told myself a limit for buying cubes every month. Maybe I will broke the rule this time... 



One Wheel said:


> best I've gotten is two flipped edges away.



When I had a lot of DNFs I redid a scramble and did it again to figure out what was wrong. In OP you use a lot setup moves so it's probably mistake during doing and undoing setups. If you finish with 2 flipped edges two things might happen:
- wrong memo - you memoed wrong stikcer
- wrong setup - you did setup for the other sticker of the edge
And there's no cure but practice: normal blindes or sighted solves. Both leads to success. 



pglewis said:


> Here's a little comedy of errors from my 3x3 attempts at my only comp:



First competitions is a hard lesson.


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## h2f (Oct 2, 2016)

MarcelP said:


> LOL,.... It does not get earlier than the 1st



Well - I got my sallary at the last week of the month.


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## MarcelP (Oct 2, 2016)

h2f said:


> Yes but I told myself a limit for buying cubes every month. Maybe I will broke the rule this time...


Rules are ment to be broken  And have you decided about stickers vs stickerless?


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## h2f (Oct 2, 2016)

MarcelP said:


> And have you decided about stickers vs stickerless?



I think it'll be black stickered but i'm not sure. When I solve on stikcered cube now color size seems so small.


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## One Wheel (Oct 2, 2016)

h2f said:


> When I had a lot of DNFs I redid a scramble and did it again to figure out what was wrong. In OP you use a lot setup moves so it's probably mistake during doing and undoing setups. If you finish with 2 flipped edges two things might happen:
> - wrong memo - you memoed wrong stikcer
> - wrong setup - you did setup for the other sticker of the edge
> And there's no cure but practice: normal blindes or sighted solves. Both leads to success.



I should have thought of redoing a scramble. I've just been solving it and starting again with a new one. Thanks!


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## moralsh (Oct 2, 2016)

@Logiqx wow, 2 thirteens and a low 17 average, impressive!


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## Logiqx (Oct 2, 2016)

moralsh said:


> @Logiqx wow, 2 thirteens and a low 17 average, impressive!


Slow and steady with 2 PLL skips. 

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk


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## MarcelP (Oct 2, 2016)

Logiqx said:


> Slow and steady with 2 PLL skips.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk


I say train cubing is working out for you  Awesome!


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## mafergut (Oct 2, 2016)

@megagoune Very nice 2 to 5 relay!!! I'm missing the Master Kilominx but sooner or later I'll get one.

@h2f Wow! Very nice Ao5. I really can't stop solving the Valk3. I have used for some time the Huanying and the Yueying as mains. They were very scratchy but I liked them a lot. The Valk is all the Meiying should have been but wasn't. It's getting a bit too fast and effortless to turn as it starts to break in so I'm not getting better times that with my current main but I enjoy solving it a lot more than the Yuexiao.

@MarcelP Very nice video of your solves at nationals. I would have fought for that +2 all the way to the delegate 

@moralsh I would like to go to a comp but right now I'll have to spend all my weekends studying for a professional certification until December so no competitions for me any time soon. Anyway, unless there's one at my city I don't think I would go even if I had the weekend free.

@pglewis That's nothing compared with what I'd do if I ever go to my 1st comp. DNF after DNF woudl be the most likely outcome. Funny account of your experience!

@Logiqx Congrats on your great results. You've set the bar so high for the rest of us at 3x3.

And now... back to studying. My Valk3 feels so lonely right now


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## Shaky Hands (Oct 2, 2016)

teacher77 said:


> Ahhhh that's probably what it was.
> 
> and btw, thanks for those beautiful algs ! Where did you get them?



From this thread originally after a fellow cuber said that many people do N-perms like this. They are also listed on algdb.net.


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## muchacho (Oct 2, 2016)

Congrats everyone for those comp PBs!



h2f said:


> That's my opinion too. It's the best cube I've ever had. I've kept solving since yesterday and I've finished with sub-19 ao100 when I used to stickerless colors. I've also beaten my pb ao5 by a almost 1 second from 16.59 to 15.65. It's a part of pb ao12 (17.43). Luckily I got it on cam:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



So fast, congrats! May that cube be good for Roux?



moralsh said:


> @muchacho @mafergut : quite a lot of comps in Spain this fall, any chance you can make it to any?


Not this year, I plan to go to only 1 comp each year (if there is one less than 2 hours away and I have time to go).


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## h2f (Oct 2, 2016)

mafergut said:


> @h2f Wow! Very nice Ao5. I really can't stop solving the Valk3. I have used for some time the Huanying and the Yueying as mains. They were very scratchy but I liked them a lot. The Valk is all the Meiying should have been but wasn't. It's getting a bit too fast and effortless to turn as it starts to break in so I'm not getting better times that with my current main but I enjoy solving it a lot more than the Yuexiao.



I wish I had Yuexiao to compare. That's my feelings too - I like solving with Valk3. I cant stop.



muchacho said:


> So fast, congrats! May that cube be good for Roux?



I think yes, it's good to Roux. Slices are fine. I think Kian uses it as his main.


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## Logiqx (Oct 2, 2016)

Made it to the OH finals!

Now feeling pretty tired but I wanted a good OH single to end the day. I got a 24.43 full step thanks to the good luck from Shaky Hands who was judging. 

It's on video so I'll upload later.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk


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## h2f (Oct 2, 2016)

@Logiqx Awsome results!


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## pglewis (Oct 2, 2016)

mafergut said:


> @pglewis That's nothing compared with what I'd do if I ever go to my 1st comp. DNF after DNF woudl be the most likely outcome. Funny account of your experience!



I highly recommend going to the next one you can, unless it's just not something you're remotely interested in (everyone has their own goals and paths). You're far faster than I . If you're convinced you're going to do poorly at your first then best to get that out of the way as soon as possible. You can add distractions to your practice routine in preparation, that's one thing on my agenda. I obviously need to be able to rebound from the unexpected and keep my focus on the task at hand, a highly applicable general skill that'll help me beyond cubes and comps. Who says this is a useless hobby?


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## mark49152 (Oct 2, 2016)

Congrats to everyone who got the PBs they wanted this weekend, and nice to catch up with all the UK oldies at Guildford (we missed you Chris!)

Here's my comp summary.

4x4: I made the mistake of putting a drop of lube in my cube before the comp. It felt faster, then even faster, then looser, then exploded all over the floor during warm ups. During the round it just felt like someone else's cube. On the first solve I slipped some layers during LL and had to re-solve part of F2L. On the final solve it gave up on me, and me on it. Didn't even make second round.

2x2: same as usual.

3BLD: got my first official success with corner comms, but it was a poor time, especially since there were three solved edges. Consolation prize was a 1:10 DNF by a silly comm mistake. Memo and recall was fast and fine, but I made a silly execution mistake and did a D2 instead of D on one comm. Disappointed not to get a PB, but it was a step in the right direction. 

5x5: was on good form and should have got a 2:10 PB average. Unfortunately, three good solves were wasted by two bad ones: a lockup that took a minute to fix, and a muscle memory failure on a G-perm resulting in having to re-solve from F2L. What a shame.

3x3: unremarkable. 

OH: So with no PBs in my regular events and my 10-comp PB streak at risk, I had to learn a new event over lunch. Thanks Mike for the OH lessons! Shameless table abuse, but I was pleased to meet soft cut on my first attempt, and the PB streak lives on . I'll post a video tomorrow. 

Overall a frustrating comp because I let myself down with silly mistakes. Maybe I take comps too seriously these days...


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## pglewis (Oct 2, 2016)

When life hands you lemons, you make lemonade. One handed


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## Logiqx (Oct 2, 2016)

I've uploaded some videos:

https://www.speedsolving.com/forum/threads/guildford-open-older-cuber-pbs.62542/


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## mrs1986 (Oct 2, 2016)

Hi guys just got some cubes, I got a Weilong GTS and a GAN Air master, both are great! I kinda like more the GTS but i have a long way to go so it will probably does not mather eich one I use...
BTW, my GTS came eith solid brown break in tools, really rare, it may not be real??


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## Logiqx (Oct 2, 2016)

My competition summary in chronological order:

*2x2* - Meh. A counting +2 (9.05) spoilt what would have been a reasonable average. 6.71 single, 7.66 average. *Poor
Pyra* - Minimal practice so just wanted sub-8 single, sub-10 average. 7.82 single, 9.66 average. *Ok
4x4* - Messed up some good solves. Plenty of room for improvement. 1:15.89 PB single, 1:26.54 average. *Ok single, poor average
6x6* - First time. Wanted a sub-8:00 single and got 6:29.50, beating my home PB. *Nice surprise!
3x3* - Wanted a sub-16 single and sub-18 average. 13.75 PB single, 17.02 PB average. *Great on both counts!
5x5* - First time. Wanted a sub-2:50 single and got 2:48.40. Nearly got a low 2:20 but completely messed up the PLL. *Ok
OH* - Wanted a sub-28 single and sub-32 average. 24.43 PB single, 31.91 PB average. *Great single, good average!*

Most room for improvement based on current form: 2x2, 4x4, OH average.

http://www.cubecomps.com/live.php?cid=1773&compid=88


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## Logiqx (Oct 2, 2016)

@mark49152 - You had amazing OH results after just one hour of practice. GJ


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## newtonbase (Oct 3, 2016)

Logiqx said:


> @mark49152 - You had amazing OH results after just one hour of practice. GJ


Yes, very impressive. 

Results are on the WCA. 

Guildford has made me hungry for better results. I do most of my practice in the work kitchen but unfortunately, due to a job change I'll probably lose this opportunity. I may be spending my lunchtimes cubing in my car for the next month.


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## Logiqx (Oct 3, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> Results are on the WCA.



Thanks. Now that I have some decent official results, I'm dropping home PBs from my signature. 

Over-40 rankings updated on GitHub.


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## Logiqx (Oct 3, 2016)

Just realised... I got my first sub-20 before the rapidly improving @Jason Green.

I was thinking I might be beaten to that milestone!

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk


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## Shaky Hands (Oct 3, 2016)

As usual I'll add my usual post-comp notes here too:

*Clock* - Small pin problem in the first solve meant I had to re-solve the first side, bit of a botch from me. Then I was off by one corner in the 5th solve for a DNF. Without the DNF I'd have got a PB average as the other solves were decent for me, with the 4th solve only 0.2s off my PB single.

*2x2* - As usual, I've put no practice into this. Somehow walked away with a PB single by 0.66s and a PB average by 0.59s.

*4x4* - Learning Hoya has paid off for me, improving my PB single by 21.42s to 1:37.41. That solve was actually a +2 as well. I think I can make the cutoff for this with some further practice. Hoya has somewhat reactivated my interest in this cube.

*6x6* - Shaved nearly a minute off my previous PB single, now down to 6:39.34. I can occasionally get sub-6m at home and really enjoy this puzzle. When we saw the results, it turned out that Mike, Mark, Ben and myself all finished next to each other in this event... good to see the gang from this thread sticking together. 

*3x3 BLD* - I got a DNF as I expected. Spent a long time on memo and then lost all my corners memo during the solve. A success will come eventually but I'll need more practice. My main aim was just to get a competition attempt done.

*3x3 round 1* - Terrible first 2 solves were somehow followed by a *15.63 PB single*! I jumped up and yelped in disbelief at having got my 2nd best time ever during a competition and reducing my official PB single by 8.28s. I think everyone in the comp heard me and it did leave to a few high-fives. To be honest, I'm still in that state of disbelief. Later in my 5th solve, the timer disconnected from the mat and flipped over as I started the solve and the subsequent re-flipping of the timer led to a weak average, putting me under the impression I wouldn't make round 2 and I consigned myself to that, still a bit high on the 15.63 single regardless. Second time I've had a timer flip over on me in comp. PB single scramble was L2 F' R2 F L2 B2 L2 D2 R2 D U B L D F D2 R B' D' but I haven't tried reconstructing yet.

*5x5* - This has been about 50% of my practice time since the previous comp I'd gone to and I improved by PB single by 29.57s to 2:47.24. Like with 4x4 I think I can make the cutoff for this at some point soon. I haven't moved over to Hoya on anything but 4x4 yet, but may do with other cubes in the future.

*3x3 OH* - Like 2x2 I don't really practice this, so it came as a surprise to beat my PB single by 28.41s to 52.20. This also meant I made the cutoff for the first time and was able to record an unexpected average, although with no other sub-1m times.

*3x3 round 2* - Somehow I made round 2 despite the bad average in round 1 (turned out it had a deviation of 7.48s!) Slowed down my solving a bit for this with no intention of outdoing the single in round 1 and walked away with a PB average by 0.54s, although still considerably above what I can get at home.

Great comp as always. Good to see @mark49152, @newtonbase, @bubbagrub and @Logiqx yet again. Bring on the UK Championships.


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## mafergut (Oct 3, 2016)

@Shaky Hands Impressive 3x3 single. Now you are officially one of the fastest oldies in single. Good job!


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## h2f (Oct 3, 2016)

@Shaky Hands @newtonbase @Logiqx @mark49152 I enjoy reading your notes! Thank you and congrats!


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## Selkie (Oct 3, 2016)

Hi fellow oldies. Firstly wanted to apologise again to the UK contingent for not making Guildford this weekend. Had an aged aunt who had a very bad turn, coincidentally the same family member who had their 80th on Saturday which meant I was not able to make the Saturday. She is very dear to me, got me into I.T. (she was 1st generation I.T.!) and bought me my first cube in 1981. She is much better and at home again which is great.

Wow, didn't you guys crush some PBs at Guildford!

@Logiqx - What an eventful comp you had! Back to back PLL skips, 4x4 average cut was close! and OH finals. Going to have to keep practicing or you'll be taking UK over 40s 3x3 average soon 

@Shaky Hands - What an awesome single there, wish I had seen it mate and you are gettign so close to average cut in 4x4 and 5x5.

@mark49152 - Nice entry into the world of OH there mate 

@newtonbase - Enjoyed watching the BLD video, nice save by CHJ 

@bubbagrub - Awesome Square 1 ot dislodge me from 4th over 40. Great improvement.

@MarcelP - Nice results in Dutch Nationals mate, lovely single 

Will endeavor to catch up on the rest of the thread later today but I wanted to congratulate the comp attendees.

Starting a training schedule for UKC now being a month away and this is one I will not miss, will definately be there Saturday and Sunday and hope to make Friday night FMC. Just ordered a UKCA hoodie and polo. The shops was supposed to close on 30th Sept but is still open. Any other UK cubers if you want to order, these orders will be hand delivered at UKC


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## Logiqx (Oct 3, 2016)

mafergut said:


> @Shaky Hands Impressive 3x3 single. Now you are officially one of the fastest oldies in single. Good job!


Shaky was in the first group.

Talk about setting the bar high!

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk


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## Logiqx (Oct 3, 2016)

We missed you @Selkie.

Don't worry about 3x3 average. 17s is smack on my global average so I'm going to work on other events for UKC. 

Sub-30 OH average is on my todo list. 

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk


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## newtonbase (Oct 3, 2016)

Selkie said:


> She is much better and at home again which is great.


That's excellent news. Look forward to seeing you in Bristol.


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## SenorJuan (Oct 3, 2016)

I'm most impressed with Mark R's 3x3 OH time, I'm pretty sure my first ever OH solves were over 2 minutes, and after doing about 4 solves, my hand hurt so much I had to stop for the day.
And I've just watched Mike's 24s OH solve, very smooth and neat, it doesn't look like a 24s solve until you put it down.

Medical update:
I pretty much gave up cubing for 2 weeks after my bike crash. The constant '6-Nurofen-a-day' headache was bad enough, but I developed hearing problems in my left ear - deafness, distorted sounds, sensitivity to loud sounds, mild tinnitus. Not being able to hear the cube properly seemed to throw me. But I'm now off the Nurofen, my hearing's returning, the stitches are out from the back of my head, I'm sleeping a lot better.... and speedsolving is back on the agenda.


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## Logiqx (Oct 3, 2016)

@SenorJuan - Good to hear you're on the mend!

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk


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## pglewis (Oct 3, 2016)

teacher77 said:


> I just did an average of 50 PLLs (recognition + execution) and I got 6.14 s. How is that split, considering that my current 10+ averages are always around 32-33 seconds ?
> 
> I must add that I'm amazed at how small a gain this is compared to 2look PLL (my Ao100 for 2 look PLL's, recognition+exec, was 7.97 sec !) That means that the 7-8 seconds improvement in my solves is mostly due to faster F2L !



Full PLL cuts down your average number of moves and will be faster but I've found the rub is that I still lose time in recognition vs. 2 look; far fewer cases means I can decide what to apply quickly, even if it requires more moves. We're both past the break-even point where full PLL is paying off and it'll keep getting faster with practice, but obviously there isn't 10 seconds to shave off your PLL without a time-machine (and I fear facing the paradoxes that might cause ).


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## teacher77 (Oct 4, 2016)

Hey I felt like sharing this : my first "sub-25" single was an 24.95s on August 8th. And it was an ENTIRE LL SKIP. Back then, it felt like a huge piece of luck which I would not reproduce, ever. But two weeks later, I got a 24.51 s with a complete solve (it ended with a J perm).

And another month brings us to my current PB (21.57 s, on septembre 22nd)... and since then, I acheived not less than SIX sub-25 singles. That's one EVERY OTHER DAY


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## teacher77 (Oct 4, 2016)

pglewis said:


> Full PLL cuts down your average number of moves and will be faster but I've found the rub is that I still lose time in recognition vs. 2 look; far fewer cases means I can decide what to apply quickly, even if it requires more moves. We're both past the break-even point where full PLL is paying off and it'll keep getting faster with practice, but obviously there isn't 10 seconds to shave off your PLL without a time-machine (and I fear facing the paradoxes that might cause ).



Hey nice to know we seem to be exactly at the same point. How long have you been cubing ?


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## newtonbase (Oct 4, 2016)

Ruined my 1st sub 2min 3BLD solve with some dodgy exceution (1:56). There's decent times to be had on the scramble. 

U R2 U2 F2 D R2 U2 R2 F2 L2 B2 R F' L2 D B F' R2 U' F2 R' Fw' Uw2


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## Shaky Hands (Oct 4, 2016)

Selkie said:


> Starting a training schedule for UKC now being a month away



Have you thought about rejoining the Weekly Comp? I've managed to win Clock the past 2 weeks. Be good to see you back over there.


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## mafergut (Oct 4, 2016)

I've also abandoned the Weekly Comp lately. Too little practise time. I did 2x2 today for wc40, though 

By the way, I received my QiYi Big Sail 6.8cm and it's really good, surprisingly. I think I could get quite close to my normal times with it. Just as a proof of that: first solve out of the box 16.51  Can you imagine somebody using it in competition? 
Maybe I'll do a video review of this, the Valk and the Weilong GTS... oh, and the Gans 356 Air.

I also saw the Moyu Magnetic Pyraminx on sale with a 46% discount at Lightake and couldn't resist. As I didn't have any stickerless Pyras I also took the chance to fix that flaw in my collection . I was planning on getting a Qiyi magnetic pyra instead but after watching the reviews about the magnets being too strong in the Qiyi and after comparing prices I went with the Moyu. If Drew Brads likes it better it cannot be bad.

EDIT: A nice Ao5 with the Big Sail 

avg of 5: 17.84, (23.44), 18.48, 16.39, (16.02) = 17.58


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## muchacho (Oct 4, 2016)

I'm averaging (or so I think) less than 22 seconds, so I've filmed another Ao5 for the "From beginner to master of the cubing universe"  playlist. I'm using the Weilong again, I like how stable it is, and it's also better for LSE.








Spoiler: times/scrambles



28859 04-oct-2016 12:44:06 00:19.719 R2 B2 L2 F2 U2 L2 D R2 L2 U2 R D' L2 F' U L2 U' B2 U2 L2
28858 04-oct-2016 12:43:26 00:21.560 U' R2 F2 U2 B2 D F2 U' L2 D B2 L B D2 F R2 U' L B2 R L2 U'
28857 04-oct-2016 12:42:48 00:18.327 D' B2 D F2 L2 B2 L2 U2 R2 F2 U' R L U' L B D B R U' L'
28856 04-oct-2016 12:42:09 00:22.183 F2 D R2 U L2 F2 U F2 U F2 U' F' D' R' L' B' U B F' R D2 U'
28855 04-oct-2016 12:41:32 00:16.039 R2 F2 U B2 F2 L2 U R2 U' L2 U2 R D' R2 F2 L2 F R B2 U' F' R2


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## pglewis (Oct 4, 2016)

teacher77 said:


> Hey nice to know we seem to be exactly at the same point. How long have you been cubing ?



Probably 6 or 7 months since I really dove into speedsolving. You're well ahead of me on progress, my global average is probably still high 40s; Ao5s are mid 40s or a little better when I'm warmed up. I have a pile of F2L things to be working on, none of which are getting proper attention since I got my first 4x4 last week.


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## Jason Green (Oct 4, 2016)

Logiqx said:


> Just realised... I got my first sub-20 before the rapidly improving @Jason Green.


I didn't realize you did not have an official sub 20, I guess I feel like all you guys who average sub 20 already have one. Feels good to help motivate others.  (Although maybe this was not really motivation since you did not think of it until after).



Selkie said:


> Wow, didn't you guys crush some PBs at Guildford!


Chris, you are really good about providing feedback to everyone individually! I bet you have better manners than me! 



SenorJuan said:


> .... and speedsolving is back on the agenda.


Glad you're feeling better!



teacher77 said:


> Hey I felt like sharing this : my first "sub-25" single was an 24.95s on August 8th. And it was an ENTIRE LL SKIP. Back then, it felt like a huge piece of luck which I would not reproduce, ever. But two weeks later, I got a 24.51 s with a complete solve (it ended with a J perm).
> 
> And another month brings us to my current PB (21.57 s, on septembre 22nd)... and since then, I acheived not less than SIX sub-25 singles. That's one EVERY OTHER DAY


Sub 20 coming soon, I remember my first one like it was yesterday. 



mafergut said:


> By the way, I received my QiYi Big Sail 6.8cm and it's really good, surprisingly. I think I could get quite close to my normal times with it. Just as a proof of that: first solve out of the box 16.51  Can you imagine somebody using it in competition?


I think I mentioned here there was a kid in Portland that used it for round 2 in OH.


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## mafergut (Oct 4, 2016)

Jason Green said:


> I think I mentioned here there was a kid in Portland that used it for round 2 in OH.



Well, even for my large hands using this cube for OH is a stretch (wordplay!!! ) but for 2H it's quite usable.


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## teacher77 (Oct 4, 2016)

pglewis said:


> Probably 6 or 7 months since I really dove into speedsolving. You're well ahead of me on progress, my global average is probably still high 40s; Ao5s are mid 40s or a little better when I'm warmed up. I have a pile of F2L things to be working on, none of which are getting proper attention since I got my first 4x4 last week.



I learned how to solve the 3x3 on april 30th, so I guess we've been speedcubing for just about the same time. Do you cube a little every day ?

Don'T worry if you seem to hit a plateau for a few weeks. Keep cubing frequently and it will get getter. My Ao10 was around 40 sec for most of August, for example.


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## pglewis (Oct 4, 2016)

teacher77 said:


> I learned how to solve the 3x3 on april 30th, so I guess we've been speedcubing for just about the same time. Do you cube a little every day ?
> 
> Don'T worry if you seem to hit a plateau for a few weeks. Keep cubing frequently and it will get getter. My Ao10 was around 40 sec for most of August, for example.



Yeah, I normally get at least an hour, usually more, daily. My recognition and 3D cube sense isn't very good and it has been somewhat slow to develop. My logic and dexterity are reasonably good to help offset that a little. My progress has been a plateau-jump cycle, it literally took me until August before I was globally under a minute, then sub 50 by Sept. 

I haven't really drilled finger-tricks at all yet but things continue to get more comfortable. I almost have a usable M slice at last... I mean, I'm not about to take up Roux or anything, but the cube doesn't go flying 8 inches in the air when I execute it now . Left hand can ring-middle M2s fairly smoothly now, right hand is a bit behind it but progressing. Opposite on index-middle U2s, right is getting smooth there, left still balks a little. 

Since you just learned full PLL, I'm assuming you're using a 3-look last layer? Do you do any edge control at the end of F2L? (I just know the sledge insertion to avoid the dot OLL... when I remember to look)


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## teacher77 (Oct 4, 2016)

pglewis said:


> Yeah, I normally get at least an hour, usually more, daily. My recognition and 3D cube sense isn't very good and it has been somewhat slow to develop. My logic and dexterity are reasonably good to help offset that a little. My progress has been a plateau-jump cycle, it literally took me until August before I was globally under a minute, then sub 50 by Sept.
> 
> I haven't really drilled finger-tricks at all yet but things continue to get more comfortable. I almost have a usable M slice at last... I mean, I'm not about to take up Roux or anything, but the cube doesn't go flying 8 inches in the air when I execute it now . Left hand can ring-middle M2s fairly smoothly now, right hand is a bit behind it but progressing. Opposite on index-middle U2s, right is getting smooth there, left still balks a little.
> 
> Since you just learned full PLL, I'm assuming you're using a 3-look last layer? Do you do any edge control at the end of F2L? (I just know the sledge insertion to avoid the dot OLL... when I remember to look)



An hour daily is great ! I wish I could afford that much.

Yes I'm using 3LLL. In fact, almost. I still have two PLL's to learn (Ga and Gb) and I take that very slowly.

I have no clue how to do edge control. Where did you learn about it ?


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## pglewis (Oct 4, 2016)

teacher77 said:


> ... I have no clue how to do edge control. Where did you learn about it ?



I've run across mentions and references while searching around for techniques, not sure I can pin it down to any one particular place. I only use the most basic edge control: to avoid the dot case OLL. Thinking about your last F2L pair logically, one of your 2nd layer edges pieces is in the top layer right before insertion. Three F2L slots hold your solved 2nd layer edges which means you are guaranteed to have a last layer edge sitting in your last slot. If you reach this condition and are looking at the dot OLL case right before you insert the last pair, then inserting it the normal R U' R way will kick that last layer edge out on the side, not facing up and you'll still be at the dot case. If you insert it with a sledgehammer instead, it kicks the edges out differently and will leave you with the friendlier "L" shape. If you remember to look before inserting your last pair not only can you avoid the dot case 100% of the time with only a few moves but you can also predict exactly how your "L" will be placed after the sledge, depending on whether it's a lefty or righty sledge. The rabbit hole runs deeper from there with more advanced techniques to influence what OLL you'll get depending on how you insert the last F2L pair, or even the last 2.


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## JanW (Oct 4, 2016)

What algs do people here use for 4x4 OLL parity? I know I learned something months ago, but there are so many alternatives that I can't even remember which one. I remember one alg I learned last spring, but that one affects the whole F2L, so I have to count bad edges immediately after edge pairing to see if it needs to be executed. Counting the bad edges only takes a couple of seconds, but I'm sure it would be faster to use something that doesn't require this.


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## newtonbase (Oct 4, 2016)

I use this one


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## JanW (Oct 4, 2016)

Thanks @newtonbase! That one is definitely easy to learn and remember. I'll give it a shot.


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## mark49152 (Oct 4, 2016)

JanW said:


> What algs do people here use for 4x4 OLL parity?


I use "Lucas parity". I think most of the fast people use this. Some use the inverse.


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## Jason Green (Oct 4, 2016)

I should learn that mine is really slow.


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## JanW (Oct 5, 2016)

Thanks Mark! That one looks vaguely familiar. Perhaps it was the one I was using earlier. I'll play around with it and see how well I can get those lefty U2s to work on a 4x4.


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## mrs1986 (Oct 5, 2016)

Well, I have been practicing, not a LOT, cause I have no more time but I'm getting inconsistently around 45-55 seconds, with some good (had one of 33.02) and other bads like 1:20 or so... I know I have not practice this for long but boy it is hard to low the times, at least to be consistent...

I can see the cross is costing me a lot of time too, and when I finish f2l I'm almost at 35~ and after that, I only know the "beginner" method, so I basically use sune and anti sune and some other like this one F (R U R' U')x3 F' for OLL and then I know T perm and J perm (I can finish a solve with one of these like one in 20 or so) and the beginner method from badmephisto...

I'm trying hard to avoid learn all algorithms but it's getting frustrating not getting any kind of improvement... well, at least not visible...


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## Logiqx (Oct 5, 2016)

mrs1986 said:


> Well, I have been practicing, not a LOT, cause I have no more time but I'm getting inconsistently around 45-55 seconds, with some good (had one of 33.02) and other bads like 1:20 or so... I know I have not practice this for long but boy it is hard to low the times, at least to be consistent...
> 
> I can see the cross is costing me a lot of time too, and when I finish f2l I'm almost at 35~ and after that, I only know the "beginner" method, so I basically use sune and anti sune and some other like this one F (R U R' U')x3 F' for OLL and then I know T perm and J perm (I can finish a solve with one of these like one in 20 or so) and the beginner method from badmephisto...
> 
> I'm trying hard to avoid learn all algorithms but it's getting frustrating not getting any kind of improvement... well, at least not visible...



You should really be spending around 2/3 of your time on cross+F2L and 1/3 on LL.

I'd suggest you learn 2-look OLL which is only 3 algs for edge orientation and 7 algs for corner orientation. Badmephisto has a video on it.

This will help to speed up your LL and reduce the variance in your times.


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## JohnnyReggae (Oct 5, 2016)

I've been dabbling with ZZ over the last couple days trying to pick up where I left off around 2 months ago. It still takes me an age to find all the bad edges and come up with a strategy to solve the EOLine. Finding the edges are not really a problem, but rather how to move everything. Still doing the Line separate from the EO as I can't think of both at the same time. So I've done an ao50 which hasn't turned out to bad considering and my times are starting to become more consistent, not great times but consistent at least. Stats from the ao50:

single
best: 24.18
worst: 1:04.13

mean of 3
best: 30.23 

avg of 5
best: 31.10 

avg of 12
best: 32.81 

avg of 50
best: 36.92


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## mrs1986 (Oct 5, 2016)

Logiqx said:


> You should really be spending around 2/3 of your time on cross+F2L and 1/3 on LL.
> 
> I'd suggest you learn 2-look OLL which is only 3 algs for edge orientation and 7 algs for corner orientation. Badmephisto has a video on it.
> 
> This will help to speed up your LL and reduce the variance in your times.



Thanks, I will try that and see how it goes, usually the big diference is in a mess up cross or in a mess up OLL alg...

I will try and learn those algs and see how it goes, I guess then I should start learning F2L algs...

Thanks!


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## One Wheel (Oct 5, 2016)

mrs1986 said:


> I will try and learn those algs and see how it goes, I guess then I should start learning F2L algs...
> Thanks!


I'm not sure how useful f2l lags are. I know about 3 cases, and either setup into one of them or just do it intuitively. I'm not exactly a speedster (35 seconds) but I think my time is better spent learning LL algs. I suspect you would be happiest just practicing f2l, and learning 2- look OLL and a few more PLL algs. I recommend cyotheking's video on U-perms like a pro, and an A-perm to add to what you have.


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## JanW (Oct 5, 2016)

I did my first Ao100 in a few weeks. Got my first sub-27 Ao100, first sub-26 Ao50 and minor improvements to Ao12 and Ao5. Getting closer to sub-25! But only 2/100 solves were sub-20. That milestone seems so far away still. But I will get there!


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## JustinTimeCuber (Oct 5, 2016)

pglewis said:


> Obvious troll is obvious.


remember guys don't feed the trolls


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## JustinTimeCuber (Oct 5, 2016)

Tricks said:


> I dont troll to get attention. I do it to give myself a laugh cuz *i got no friends* to make me laugh


most accurate statement ever 10/10


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## pglewis (Oct 5, 2016)

mrs1986 said:


> [...] when I finish f2l I'm almost at 35~ and after that, I only know the "beginner" method [...]



Sounds like we're both at about the same level on times. Definitely a lot of time you can trim from your cross + F2L alone. I've bolstered my last layer with full PLL and it hasn't trimmed a huge chunk off my faster times but it has helped cut down the slower ones, which equates to better averages. Logiqx won't steer you wrong, I love the experience, advice, and encouragement here.


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## newtonbase (Oct 5, 2016)

There are 62 people entered for 3BLD at the UKs next month. That's more than double the number that competed last year and only 4 short of the number of people with an official solve. Blind is getting very popular.


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## Jason Green (Oct 5, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> There are 62 people entered for 3BLD at the UKs next month. That's more than double the number that competed last year and only 4 short of the number of people with an official solve. Blind is getting very popular.


Yeah I should've started cubing a year or two earlier.  With 3x3 around here at the first of the year seemed like barely sub 20 usually made second round. Now I'm close to sub 20 and it's taking more like 17-18. I really just want to travel back to the 80's (with today's hardware though).


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## newtonbase (Oct 5, 2016)

Jason Green said:


> Yeah I should've started cubing a year or two earlier.  With 3x3 around here at the first of the year seemed like barely sub 20 usually made second round. Now I'm close to sub 20 and it's taking more like 17-18. I really just want to travel back to the 80's (with today's hardware though).


You could be World Champion.


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## pglewis (Oct 5, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> You could be World Champion.



Lacking a time-machine (paradoxes, people, paradoxes!), I think we can still find a way to end up world-class if we classify properly. I might be top 5 in the world for right-handed, over 45 Aquarians who don't take sugar in their coffee. Assuming I've whittled it down to 5 or less .


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## mrs1986 (Oct 5, 2016)

One Wheel said:


> I'm not sure how useful f2l lags are. I know about 3 cases, and either setup into one of them or just do it intuitively. I'm not exactly a speedster (35 seconds) but I think my time is better spent learning LL algs. I suspect you would be happiest just practicing f2l, and learning 2- look OLL and a few more PLL algs. I recommend cyotheking's video on U-perms like a pro, and an A-perm to add to what you have.



Great, I will check those videos!


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## mark49152 (Oct 5, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> There are 62 people entered for 3BLD at the UKs next month. That's more than double the number that competed last year and only 4 short of the number of people with an official solve. Blind is getting very popular.


Wow that is a lot. I make it 64, of whom 51 are Brits. Of the Brits, 33 have a prior success, so half of the 66 currently ranked are registered for UKC.

Last year 45 competed of whom 35 were Brits, and 28 (21 Brits) got a success.


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## newtonbase (Oct 6, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> Wow that is a lot. I make it 64, of whom 51 are Brits. Of the Brits, 33 have a prior success, so half of the 66 currently ranked are registered for UKC.





mark49152 said:


> Last year 45 competed of whom 35 were Brits, and 28 (21 Brits) got a success.


Ah, I misread last year's results. There were lots of people in 29th place. Including me. It's not as spectacular an increase as I'd thought. It'll be PB or DNF for me this competition again. I want top 30 ranking by the end of it.


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## newtonbase (Oct 6, 2016)

JustinTimeCuber said:


> remember guys don't feed the trolls





JustinTimeCuber said:


> most accurate statement ever 10/10


He's gone.


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## muchacho (Oct 6, 2016)

I didn't know I could get a stickerless sculpted X-Man Galaxy Megaminx with a black side. Ordered.


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## pipkiksass (Oct 6, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> Mark saying stuff



I just searched the forums to find out when I last posted, and the most recent post wasn't me, but Mark wondering where I'd gone.

Awww, did you miss me? ;-)

Been ill, sadly. I'm currently recovering, but off work sick for 6 months, so I guess I could use that time to finally learn to solve the cross blind...

In other news, Marcel you got FAST. I get your YouTube updates in my gmail, so I've seen your single PBs - kudos.

Looking forward to finishing OLL and becoming a proper cuber.


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## mark49152 (Oct 6, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> It's not as spectacular an increase as I'd thought. It'll be PB or DNF for me this competition again.


It's still remarkable though. As you already observed, the UK ranking is much more crowded than a year ago. Definitely a surge in interest.

I hate leaving a comp with three DNFs but you are correct, to get a PB you have to push it and take risks. I wasted an easy scramble at Guildford because I was too safe - success, but slow. I was more pleased with my performance on the third scramble, which although DNF was very close and way faster.

@pipkiksass: Welcome back! Yeah we missed you and were even talking about you at the comp the other day  Hope you recover soon.


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## Logiqx (Oct 6, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> He's gone.


He was reported for being rude and disrespectful.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk


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## Logiqx (Oct 6, 2016)

pipkiksass said:


> I just searched the forums to find out when I last posted, and the most recent post wasn't me, but Mark wondering where I'd gone.
> 
> Awww, did you miss me? ;-)
> 
> ...


Hey. Welcome back!

I hope you make a good recovery over coming months.

I was reminiscing about the "how do you compare" thread with Mark at the weekend. We'd wondered where you had gone.

The thread prompted me to push for sub-20 globally and now I have a 17.08 official average.

Check my signature for everyone's official PBs.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk


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## pipkiksass (Oct 6, 2016)

Thanks guys - it's a long road, but I have a scan tomorrow which will hopefully give me some good results. If not then it's an even longer road!!!

Anyway, what did I miss in the world of cubing? Did someone release a cube that will magically make me sub-10 yet?

Couldn't help WCA stalking you. Not too hard, as only 2 Marks competed in the 3x3 at Guildford. Respectable times these days, sir.



Logiqx said:


> I was reminiscing about the "how do you compare" thread with Mark at the weekend...



Wow, remember that one! I swear I used to spend more time doing forum maths than working.


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## Logiqx (Oct 6, 2016)

@pipkiksass. Lots of great cubes now and one of the newest with rave reviews is the Valk 3.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk


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## pipkiksass (Oct 6, 2016)

Logiqx said:


> @pipkiksass. Lots of great cubes now and one of the newest with rave reviews is the Valk 3.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk



Not interested unless it will magically make me sub-10. None of the YouTube reviews suggest that it will do so. Guess I'll have to try hard word instead.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## newtonbase (Oct 6, 2016)

Logiqx said:


> He was reported for being rude and disrespectful.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk


Yes, I reported him too after his comment on your Guildford thread.


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## JanW (Oct 6, 2016)

I'm speechless...

14.06 R' D2 F R2 B' D L' B R2 U' B2 U2 B2 U F2 R2 D L2 B2 R'

x // inspection
M' F' D' R' // cross
L' U L2 U' L' // F2L-1
R U' R' U2 y' R' U' R // F2L-2
y R' U2 R U' R' U' R // F2L-3
U' L' U' L U' L' U L // F2L-4
U2 R U R' U' R' F R F' // OLL
U' // AUF

41 moves, 2.92 moves per second

It's not every day I cut 3 seconds off my PB single!

Oh, and sub-25 Ao50 as well.


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## mafergut (Oct 6, 2016)

JanW said:


> I'm speechless...
> 
> 14.06 R' D2 F R2 B' D L' B R2 U' B2 U2 B2 U F2 R2 D L2 B2 R'


Congrats!!! Same feeling when I got my 12.49 a couple years ago. My previous PB was then 15.89 so 3.4 secs of improvement. It took me 10 months to beat it though and, even today, I have only beaten it 6 times (all of them PLL or OLL skips).

Clear sign that my 3x3 is stagnating that a time from 2 years ago is still in my top 10 singles of all time. I'm sure you'll be beating this 14.06 soon.


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## muchacho (Oct 6, 2016)

Congrats!

These are my 45 3x3 PB singles... it was fun getting PBs frequently... now only 1 after May 



Spoiler: PBs



25560 16-ago-2016 10:50:07 00:*12.166* B2 F2 D2 R2 U' B2 R2 L2 U F2 D L' D U' F' D R' U2 R F2 L D'
17862 20-may-2016 19:56:26 00:*13.831* F2 D L2 U2 F2 R2 D L2 B2 R2 F' R' U2 R' F U' B' R2 F2 L'
14508 21-abr-2016 16:16:36 00:*14.352* F2 U' B2 R2 D' L2 F2 D B2 U2 B2 R' B' L2 D2 R B U L U L U'
13595 14-abr-2016 8:54:45 00:*15.271* U' L2 U2 F2 R2 F2 D' F2 U' R2 U2 R' B U' F R' B' F2 U2 R2 L2
10841 09-mar-2016 14:37:32 00:*15.455* L2 D U2 R2 U2 L2 B2 R2 D L2 D2 B' U' R2 B' R U B2 U2 L' U'
10634 06-mar-2016 9:52:32 00:*16.216* B2 D2 F2 R2 B2 U' L2 D R2 F' U F R' L2 U B' D R' L2 D2
4788 04-dic-2015 15:49:07 00:*16.328* D' B2 F2 D' L2 B2 D U R2 L2 F' R' U' B' R' B2 F' D2 U L U'
4558 22-nov-2015 11:56:41 00:*19.088* U' R2 B2 D B2 D2 R2 B2 D F2 U B' R' L B' U2 F D F' L2 D2
4440 20-nov-2015 9:19:05 00:*19.511* R2 B2 D' F2 D' L2 D2 L2 U2 F2 D2 B U2 B D' R U2 F' R D' R2
3700 10-nov-2015 17:32:21 00:*21.534* U L2 D2 U' F' R2 B F' U L2 B U' L2 U2 B2 L2 D B2
3493 04-nov-2015 14:10:39 00:*22.295* U R2 U F2 L2 U' R2 U' B2 F2 L2 F' L' B2 R U L' F' U' L2 D
3343 31-oct-2015 9:36:24 00:*22.621* D R2 D2 L2 D' B2 U2 B2 U R2 U' L' F L2 U2 F D' B2 R' B2 F2
1686 14-sep-2015 11:07:13 00:*23.063* R2 D2 L2 U' F2 D' F2 R2 U B2 U2 R U' B D F D' R2 U L U'
1623 13-sep-2015 10:08:45 00:*24.278* D' B2 R2 D' L2 U F2 U2 R2 U B2 L' B L D R' B' R D' R' F2
1401 02-sep-2015 10:12:57 00:*27.934* D' F D' L2 F' D' R F R2 D' R B2 F' U2 B D' B' D
1286 28-ago-2015 12:15:58 00:*32.141* R2 U R2 D2 L2 F2 L2 U' L2 F2 D2 R F' D' B2 U B2 L' B' R' F D'
1275 28-ago-2015 12:02:04 00:*32.422* F2 U' R2 D L2 U' B2 U F2 R2 D R D L2 B' U' R F D' U' R D2
1231 27-ago-2015 9:09:09 00:*32.535* F2 D2 R2 F2 D2 L2 U2 L2 U2 B2 U2 R' U2 L2 B' L B2 F' R' F' D2 U'
1072 23-ago-2015 11:24:47 00:*32.878* U2 R2 L2 F2 U R2 L2 F2 U' L2 U2 B' L2 F L D2 L D B2 U2 L'
749 11-ago-2015 10:45:51 00:*32.983* D R2 F2 L2 U' L2 D2 R2 D' R2 U2 B F' R' B U' F L' U' F2 D' U2
483 31-jul-2015 9:30:39 00:*35.126* B2 R2 D' F2 U' B2 U2 B2 L2 F2 L2 B D2 R' B D' R2 F' U2 B2 L' D'
467 30-jul-2015 16:58:54 00:*41.093* U2 R2 U' F2 R2 D L2 B2 L2 D' B' F U' R F' L' F' U B' U'
396 27-jul-2015 19:13:06 00:*42.987* U' F2 L2 F2 D U2 F2 U' B2 L2 U2 L F2 U' B U2 R B2 D B' D U'
391 27-jul-2015 18:24:48 00:*48.973* D2 L2 D' R2 F2 D L2 D2 B2 R2 F B2 D2 R' U' F R2 L' B R'
369 26-jul-2015 12:06:39 00:*49.893* B2 R2 L2 F2 D L2 D' L2 B2 F2 U2 F' D' L2 B' L U' B2 U R B2
364 26-jul-2015 11:56:35 00:*51.189* R2 L2 U' L2 U' B2 F2 U2 B2 D R2 B D' F2 U2 R B D2 B' F'
304 23-jul-2015 10:04:50 00:*52.069* F2 L2 F2 D L2 D2 U B2 L2 D2 R L' U' F' U2 R2 B L' U' R' B
257 19-jul-2015 9:52:50 00:*54.477* D2 R2 L2 U' B2 L2 D2 B2 U R2 U B L B2 D' U' R F2 R2 U2 F' D2
232 18-jul-2015 9:15:58 0*1:05.572* R2 L2 B2 L2 D R2 D2 L2 F2 L2 U R' U2 L F' U' B2 R2 B2 R F2
157 15-jul-2015 11:31:03 0*1:07.317* L2 U2 B2 D' B2 R2 L2 F2 L2 D2 L' U' B' L2 F2 L D2 R' U' B
142 14-jul-2015 8:32:23 0*1:09.732* U B2 R2 B2 U F2 D' U2 F2 D2 F2 R' L2 D B' U2 R L' U F' L2 U'
138 14-jul-2015 8:21:34 0*1:17.148* U L2 B2 U2 B2 U L2 B2 U' F2 D' R' U B F' D' B' F L D F
115 11-jul-2015 12:45:47 0*1:26.170* F2 D' B2 U' L2 F2 R2 U R2 F2 R' F2 L' B D L F U2 F2 U2
91 10-jul-2015 11:14:52 0*1:33.802* L2 U2 B2 D' B2 R2 B2 D' L2 U' R2 B' R' U' B U' L2 F' D' B' R2 D
85 10-jul-2015 10:35:04 0*1:42.739* R2 U' B2 U B2 U F2 D L2 B2 U' L' D2 B U2 L D B' R U' R' U2
43 08-jul-2015 13:06:39 0*1:53.281* D' L2 B2 R2 U' B2 D' B2 D2 B2 U' L U' F2 U' L F L' F2 L2 D'
42 08-jul-2015 13:03:17 0*2:18.199* F2 U F2 D R2 D' L2 U F2 R2 D' R' F2 R' F L D U' B' R2
41 08-jul-2015 12:59:53 0*2:23.520* R2 D2 F2 U2 B2 R2 D B2 R2 U L2 F D' R D2 U' B' F U L' B D
19 07-jul-2015 19:48:00 0*2:36.837* D' F2 U2 L2 F2 D L2 B2 D' F2 D F' D2 R' B' F L2 U' F' L D' U
18 07-jul-2015 18:41:38 0*3:10.723* U2 R2 L2 F2 R2 U F2 U F2 L2 U L' U2 L B' D R2 B U' F2 D
8 07-jul-2015 12:04:41 0*3:15.764* D F2 D' F2 U2 F2 R2 F2 U2 F2 D2 F' D2 F R' B D F2 D' B D'
5 07-jul-2015 11:43:33 0*4:31.351* L2 F2 U' L2 D2 F2 U' F2 D F2 U' L' B2 U' F' R2 L U' F' R' D' U2
4 07-jul-2015 11:25:11 0*5:13.100* F2 L2 D U L2 U R2 F2 L2 U L' F' U' B' R L' D B' R U' L
2 07-jul-2015 9:32:23 0*6:06.769* B2 R2 L2 U2 R2 L2 B2 D F2 D F2 R' U' B2 R L2 B D B F D2
1 07-jul-2015 8:40:00 0*7:15.045* D2 R2 U F2 U B2 D' R2 D' L2 D2 L R2 U' B' F L2 U R' D B2 U


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## JanW (Oct 6, 2016)

Thanks!

That's some nice statistics @muchacho! It would be interesting to have stats like that, but I've been switching timers so many times that it's not really possible.

Finished today's Ao100 at 25.40. Big improvement since yesterday. I've been doing very little timed solves the last couple of months, but picked up a lot of new algs and done lots of untimed solves in this time, so I was expecting to see some improvement when I finally do some longer sessions of timed solves.

Currently I'm using the stickerless MeiYing, I really like this cube! Maybe I'll try an Ao100 with the GTS tomorrow to see how that works out. I've usually been 1-2 seconds faster on the GTS than on any other cube, but haven't compared it to the MeiYing yet.


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## MarcelP (Oct 6, 2016)

pipkiksass said:


> Not interested unless it will magically make me sub-10. None of the YouTube reviews suggest that it will do so. Guess I'll have to try hard word instead.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Actually most of the people who use it claim they beat all their PB's. I had some nice averages but still prefer the ShengShou FangYuan. Welcome back btw


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## pglewis (Oct 6, 2016)

pglewis said:


> Most of the [F2L] solutions I'm using are reasonably efficient now... seems like every time I check one against algdb or another F2L reference that I'm doing the same thing but I'll inventory all of 'em at this point



Oh how very wrong I was lol. I've managed to put the 4x4 down long enough to start the tedious auditing process on my F2L cases. It's time for me to scrutinize every single case, less fun than other exercises but it should pay solid dividends. Since I need good personal notes I've started a spreadsheet with all the cases... basically copying the info from the speedsolving.com wiki so I have something I can mark-up.

The first group I'm focusing on are the non-trivial cases where the corner and edge are next to one another in the U face (11-18, 23, 24). Finding pairs + recognition is my bane and these are easy cases for me to spot. I plan to spam the crap out of these cases and give them early preferential treatment in solves in the hopes that the harder cases for me to spot will be a little more limited to later in the stage, with less cube chaos to confuse me. 

I'm finding plenty of neat tricks, like M U L F' L' U' M' (effectively [M U L: F']) for F2L-15. There are also a few rare cases where what I've been doing makes more sense to me than any of the listed algs. A concrete example is F2L-13 which is just a lefty F2L-14. Going by the wiki and algdb, the general consensus seems to be U' (R U' R' U) (R U R') is _the_ solution for F2L-14, yet the y U (L' U L U') (L' U' L) y' mirror isn't even listed for F2L-13 . Seems like a serious L-move aversion in the F2L algs out there. 

This'll take a little while, both the leg work and recall on algs I'm swapping out for new ones. I'm not even doing many full solves right now, mostly having csTimer scramble a solved cross and just doing F2L. I'm not setting any time-frame goals because I'm easily distracted (squirrel!), but I fully expect this to yield Ao5s in the 30s and break into the 20s for single solves.


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## MarcelP (Oct 6, 2016)

JanW said:


> I'm speechless...
> 
> 14.06 R' D2 F R2 B' D L' B R2 U' B2 U2 B2 U F2 R2 D L2 B2 R'
> 
> ...


Wow man, I love the M' in cross! And the second pair is way more efficient than what I do. I always do the U' and then R to split them up.. the beginner way.. LOL. Cool, I learned something today.


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## bubbagrub (Oct 6, 2016)

Selkie said:


> She is much better and at home again which is great.



Glad to hear she's feeling better.



Selkie said:


> @Shaky Hands - What an awesome single there, wish I had seen it mate and you are gettign so close to average cut in 4x4 and 5x5.



That was the highlight of the competition for me. I was standing waiting to solve, and there was this sudden yell of joy or maybe anger, and Andy leapt up from the table like he'd been bitten by a snake. Then I saw the timer and couldn't quite believe it... 



Selkie said:


> @bubbagrub - Awesome Square 1 ot dislodge me from 4th over 40. Great improvement.



Thank you!  I was pretty lucky with the scrambles, to be honest: they all had really nice cube-shapes. This has been proven by the weekly comp in which I have done a lot worse...



Selkie said:


> Starting a training schedule for UKC now being a month away and this is one I will not miss, will definately be there Saturday and Sunday and hope to make Friday night FMC.



Excellent. Looking forward to meeting you. I'll also be there for FMC, traffic allowing.


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## Shaky Hands (Oct 6, 2016)

bubbagrub said:


> That was the highlight of the competition for me. I was standing waiting to solve, and there was this sudden yell of joy or maybe anger, and Andy leapt up from the table like he'd been bitten by a snake. Then I saw the timer and couldn't quite believe it...



That made me smile, reliving the memory! I hope I didn't excessively distract anyone that had a solve in progress, but I was totally overwhelmed in disbelief. 

Since then I must have spent 2+ hours trying to reconstruct that solve but still no luck.

I know it finished up with an edges-orientated OLL (I think Chameleon or Bowtie) and a PLL skip from the scramble L2 F' R2 F L2 B2 L2 D2 R2 D U B L D F D2 R B' D'.

I solve white-cross only so I assume my cross was either x2 U' D' (R' B' R') (F L F) or x2 U' D' (F L F) (R' B' R') but I can't get that to lead to anything.

One day I will suss out how I managed this.


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## JanW (Oct 6, 2016)

MarcelP said:


> Wow man, I love the M' in cross! And the second pair is way more efficient than what I do. I always do the U' and then R to split them up.. the beginner way.. LOL. Cool, I learned something today.


Haha, thanks! I'm glad if I can be of help, so it's not only me leeching off the infinite wisdom of all the wiser oldies in this thread.  I sometimes do M' in the cross, but only if I have 2 opposite white edges opposite to each other and can position them with the M' as first move. I don't think my brain is ready to handle M' moves later in the cross sequence yet.

For the second pair, I found another, possibly even better way while playing around with the cube last week. That would be U F (sexy) F' U R U' R'. Or use sledgehammer for insertion to replace last 4 moves, that might even be more finger trick friendly. It's more moves, but could be faster. I think it's better if the pair already is positioned towards front left, not quite sure if it's worth it with the U move at the start.


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## newtonbase (Oct 6, 2016)

Another potential 3BLD PB ruined by a minor execution error. 1:43 this time. There's a sub 2 success waiting for me somewhere and I think it's close.


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## Logiqx (Oct 6, 2016)

JanW said:


> Haha, thanks! I'm glad if I can be of help, so it's not only me leeching off the infinite wisdom of all the wiser oldies in this thread.  I sometimes do M' in the cross, but only if I have 2 opposite white edges opposite to each other and can position them with the M' as first move. I don't think my brain is ready to handle M' moves later in the cross sequence yet.
> 
> For the second pair, I found another, possibly even better way while playing around with the cube last week. That would be U F (sexy) F' U R U' R'. Or use sledgehammer for insertion to replace last 4 moves, that might even be more finger trick friendly. It's more moves, but could be faster. I think it's better if the pair already is positioned towards front left, not quite sure if it's worth it with the U move at the start.


Your first two pairs are what I'd do in a speedsolve.

The third pair I'd do U2 L U' L' U2 L U' L'.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk


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## mark49152 (Oct 6, 2016)

My greatest achievement at Guildford:-


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## Jason Green (Oct 7, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> My greatest achievement at Guildford:-


Awesome maybe I'll try the table more. I still haven't broke 1:00. 

@JanW that was a really great cross, I've never done one like that, although I need to remember M when I have opposites that both need to go down.


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## newtonbase (Oct 7, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> My greatest achievement at Guildford:-


That's excellent. Have you watched the Roux guys doing LSE OH? They make an art form out of table abuse.


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## pipkiksass (Oct 7, 2016)

MarcelP said:


> Actually most of the people who use it claim they beat all their PB's. I had some nice averages but still prefer the ShengShou FangYuan. Welcome back btw



Thanks Marcel, and good to be back. Maybe I have an excuse now to buy more cubes... Actually who needs excuses to buy more cubes? 

Good to be back in The Pub anyway. Mine's a tomato juice, sadly, as I can't drink! 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## muchacho (Oct 7, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> That's excellent. Have you watched the Roux guys doing LSE OH? They make an art form out of table abuse.







I average 2 seconds more than that... with 2H. I've timed myself with OH for the first time, Ao12: 8.980 

edit: ok, I did some more and I'm averaging around 7.5 seconds, that's better.


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## mark49152 (Oct 7, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> Have you watched the Roux guys doing LSE OH? They make an art form out of table abuse.


Yes that's what inspired my U perm


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## mafergut (Oct 7, 2016)

I don't even know how you @mark49152 were able to solve the cube OH without any prior practice. OLL and PLL alg amnesia was a big issue for me when starting to practice OH and I had to relearn most my algs.


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## mark49152 (Oct 7, 2016)

mafergut said:


> I don't even know how you @mark49152 were able to solve the cube OH without any prior practice. OLL and PLL alg amnesia was a big issue for me when starting to practice OH and I had to relearn most my algs.


I used beginners method for LL, so no need for muscle memory. EO is easy. For CO, I re-learned how to arrange the corners to use sunes only. For CP I used comms from BLD. For EP, U perm is easy.


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## One Wheel (Oct 7, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> My greatest achievement at Guildford:-



You use the table as much as I'd like to use the floor with feet! I think I have an OH single that's a better time than that, but it was an OLL skip. I think I've gone under 1:00 OH once or twice without a skip, but not often.


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## mafergut (Oct 7, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> I used beginners method for LL, so no need for muscle memory. EO is easy. For CO, I re-learned how to arrange the corners to use sunes only. For CP I used comms from BLD. For EP, U perm is easy.


And even in those conditions and without practice you got a 46sec solve... I'm impressed! I average around 44 seconds (with 2L OLL) and I've practiced a decent amount of time.


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## mark49152 (Oct 7, 2016)

mafergut said:


> And even in those conditions and without practice you got a 46sec solve... I'm impressed! I average around 44 seconds (with 2L OLL) and I've practiced a decent amount of time.


Cheers  Without the table abuse I doubt I would have even completed a solve. That 46 second solve was quite easy. CP skip and only one sune for CO.

I'm tempted to give feet a try. Never thought I would ever say that


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## One Wheel (Oct 7, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> I'm tempted to give feet a try. Never thought I would ever say that



You should. In my experience it's incredibly frustrating when you start out with 10-minute solves because of botched OLLs and PLLs, but once you can do it it's really fun, and easy to get relatively good rankings because very few people actually try.


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## MarcelP (Oct 7, 2016)

One Wheel said:


> .. because very few people actually try.



Yeah, not many freaks


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## muchacho (Oct 7, 2016)

I would try feet, but I guess doing M moves is not very fast. Maybe I'll try once I'm at least more efficient... and not before I can do all the other wca events, yeah, I'll also do clock if a good one is released.


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## One Wheel (Oct 7, 2016)

MarcelP said:


> Yeah, not many freaks



Yeah, although in fairness those of us on this thread are adults who spend hundreds of dollars (or pounds, or . . .) And hundreds of hours on what is fundamentally a child's toy. Freak isn't much of a stretch already.


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## muchacho (Oct 7, 2016)

This solve was fast (14.496) and looked easy to reconstruct (and I thought I had missed something during LSE, which I did), so I've done that:

29169 07-oct-2016 15:34:18 00:14.496 L2 B2 R2 U' R2 D' B2 U' F2 R2 D2 F R B' R2 B' D' U B' R2 L'

x' y'
M' Uw U' B U' M U M' F'
U' M' U Rw2 R U R' M' U2 Rw' U' Rw U2 Rw U Rw'
U' F R U R' U' R U R' U' F'
M' U M' U M' M' U2 M U2 M2 U M' U2 M'

52 STM
3.59 tps

https://alg.cubing.net/?setup=L2_B2_R2_U-_R2_D-_B2_U-_F2_R2_D2_F_R_B-_R2_B-_D-_U_B-_R2_L-&alg=x-_y- M-_Uw_U-_B_U-_M_U_M-_F- U-_M-_U_Rw2_R_U_R-_M-_U2_Rw-_U-_Rw_U2_Rw_U_Rw- U-_F_R_U_R-_U-_R_U_R-_U-_F- M-_U_M-_U_M-_M-_U2_M_U2_M2_U_M-_U2_M-


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## mafergut (Oct 7, 2016)

First Ao50 in a long, long time, trying to decide if I'll change main to the Qiyi Valk. Got 19.43, a full second off my PB . I get very nice solves with this cube but I also fumble others because of unintended turning of some layer or other. It's so light to turn! So not sure yet that I can get good consistency on it. Also I'm a bit in bad shape lately so I'm not going to blame the cube for something that's entirely my fault. Trying to focus on cross-to-F2L transition following @MarcelP's advice 

Best solve was a 13.91 full step, on this scramble:
L' B2 F2 D2 L B2 F2 R F2 L2 D' F' D2 L D2 F U2 F U' F'


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## Logiqx (Oct 7, 2016)

muchacho said:


> I would try feet, but I guess doing M moves is not very fast. Maybe I'll try once I'm at least more efficient... and not before I can do all the other wca events, yeah, I'll also do clock if a good one is released.



Alex Lau uses Roux for feet. He does E turns with one foot on top of the cube and the other foot doing the slice move.


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## muchacho (Oct 7, 2016)

Ah, that should work.


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## mafergut (Oct 7, 2016)

You're not going to convince me to try, thanks. I hate cold feet more than anything.

By the way, David @muchacho, nice single and better TPS than my PB single. And it has a fairly high movecount for a Roux solve so... there's room for improvement there. Do you have a reconstruction of your 12.16 PB single? I'm curious if it's just lower movecount or higher TPS. From my top singles that I have reconstructed, the best TPS I have recorded is 4.32 but most common is only around 3.4-3.5.


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## muchacho (Oct 7, 2016)

That one was only 2.79 tps, solution was absurly short (Roux may be better for getting good singles).

25560 16-ago-2016 10:50:07 00:12.166 B2 F2 D2 R2 U' B2 R2 L2 U F2 D L' D U' F' D R' U2 R F2 L D'

x
M' Uw2 U B U F'
M' U R U R2 U' R'
U' F R2 D R' U R D' R2' U' F'
M2 U M' U M' U2 M' U' M2 U

I've tried feet solving, 12 minutes to F2B and then gave up while trying to do CMLL, next year I'll try again.


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## mafergut (Oct 7, 2016)

Nice movecount. That's what I like the most about Roux. Maybe my only option of ever getting a sub-10 single would be to change to Roux... but I'd need to spend another 3-4 years practising and, to be honest, I don't think I have the will power to do that. Unless I don't see any progress in my times during 2017. Then I might consider changing method, even if only to start getting PBs again 

It's written, so by end of 2017 if my signature still says PB single 11.50 you are allowed to remind me what I said and force me into learning Roux seriously.


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## muchacho (Oct 7, 2016)

I would, but won't happen. You'll get a PB on the Valk3 and that will force me to buy it.

Yeah, 34 moves with no skips was crazy. But being efficient on purpose looks crazy difficult also (for me).


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## newtonbase (Oct 7, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> I'm tempted to give feet a try. Never thought I would ever say that




Me neither!


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## mafergut (Oct 7, 2016)

Well, did an Ao25 (no time for another Ao50) and got much better results. I don't know if it's PB as I don't track Ao25 but I got close to sub-18. Started with the Weekly Comp Ao5 and decided to continue:

Generated By csTimer on 2016-10-7
avg of 25: 18.06

Time List:
(15.67), 18.40, (15.85), 19.70, 18.62, 17.00, (22.72), 16.55, (22.66), 16.65, 19.36, 19.00, 18.30, 17.50, 17.18, 16.23, 17.02, 16.70, 21.21, 16.74, 18.42, 20.07, 17.29, 17.08, 20.18


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## muchacho (Oct 7, 2016)

That's good, I'm already looking for the best price for the Valk.

Is that how averages work? So not counting the 4 best/worst solves in an Ao50 and 8 best/worst times in an Ao100? I'm such a noob, I would have counted 98 times of an Ao100


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## newtonbase (Oct 7, 2016)

Yet another sub 2min 3BLD DNF. Recall error on 1 sticker this time caused 3 incorrect edges.


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## pglewis (Oct 7, 2016)

muchacho said:


> Congrats!
> 
> These are my 45 3x3 PB singles... it was fun getting PBs frequently... now only 1 after May
> 
> ...



Wow, that's some fast early progress by my standards! It has taken me months to get to a mid 30s PR, I'm just hoping all that means is I'll have a high ceiling lol.


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## mark49152 (Oct 7, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> Yet another sub 2min 3BLD DNF. Recall error on 1 sticker this time caused 3 incorrect edges.


Wow you are getting fast.

@h2f, I saw your post in the accomplishment thread. What are your splits now between memo, exec and corners?


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## newtonbase (Oct 7, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> Wow you are getting fast


You are twice as fast when it comes to successes but I'm getting there.


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## h2f (Oct 7, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> Wow you are getting fast.
> 
> @h2f, I saw your post in the accomplishment thread. What are your splits now between memo, exec and corners?


Im very inconsistent. In good solves its like 20-15-30 in bad 50-30-40. I need to make some comms practice.


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## mark49152 (Oct 7, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> You are twice as fast when it comes to successes but I'm getting there.


Sub-2 is a huge milestone, and that's an impressive rate of improvement.



h2f said:


> Im very inconsistent. In good solves its like 20-15-30 in bad 50-30-40. I need to make some comms practice.


Is that memo-corners-edges? Do you use full 3-style for both?


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## mafergut (Oct 7, 2016)

muchacho said:


> That's good, I'm already looking for the best price for the Valk.
> 
> Is that how averages work? So not counting the 4 best/worst solves in an Ao50 and 8 best/worst times in an Ao100? I'm such a noob, I would have counted 98 times of an Ao100


I think you have to take out the best 5% and worst 5% rounded up. So, 2 solves for Ao25, 3 for Ao50 and 5 for Ao100. Please somebody correct me if I'm wrong.
And yes, the Valk is worth it in my opinion. And @PenguinsDontFly is using it as his new main so, it must be good for Roux too.


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## Jason Green (Oct 8, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> I used beginners method for LL, so no need for muscle memory. EO is easy. For CO, I re-learned how to arrange the corners to use sunes only. For CP I used comms from BLD. For EP, U perm is easy.


I do mostly just sunes and a few of the easy OLLs, I can do a J perm now, but I still am over a minute every time so that's very good. I don't practice a lot but I've started doing a few solves a day.


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## newtonbase (Oct 8, 2016)

I had the checkerboard OLL come up in my last official OH solve so I stopped the timer. It was already going badly.


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## h2f (Oct 8, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> Is that memo-corners-edges? Do you use full 3-style for both?



Yes Mark. Memo - corners- edges. And full 3style.


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## mark49152 (Oct 8, 2016)

h2f said:


> Yes Mark. Memo - corners- edges. And full 3style.


How much difference do you think edge comms make? M2 is already pretty efficient. 

I vaguely think I've asked you these questions before. My memory is terrible for everything except BLD


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## h2f (Oct 8, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> How much difference do you think edge comms make? M2 is already pretty efficient.
> 
> I vaguely think I've asked you these questions before. My memory is terrible for everything except BLD


I dont remember if you asked before...[emoji2]

Edge comms are Easy and if you remember my 54 sec solution you see the difference. Im slow but i think i save at least 10 sec on every solve. Most of my comms are based on adv m2 and cacelations. I think it worth knowing.


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## pglewis (Oct 8, 2016)

I'm sure plenty of people use these but I couldn't find any references for these alternates and figured I'd drop 'em here. I was digging around for smoother ways to do a few things in my personal F2L bootcamp and came up with some sledgehammer/hedgeslammer alternates that seem to flow really nicely, could be useful in some grip contexts: 

l' U l F' // sledge alt
F l' U' l // hedge alt
r U' r' F // lefty sledge alt
F' r U r' // lefty hedge alt


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## mark49152 (Oct 8, 2016)

h2f said:


> Edge comms are Easy and if you remember my 54 sec solution you see the difference. Im slow but i think i save at least 10 sec on every solve. Most of my comms are based on adv m2 and cacelations. I think it worth knowing.


I already us advanced M2 and cancellations and my edge exec is about 25 sec so comms would have to be very special to save 10 seconds 

I sometimes think of learning comms for some cases that don't have good setups or cancellations. Like PL (speffz) or OC. Are there any easy comms with good move savings that you think are "must know" cases?


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## Logiqx (Oct 8, 2016)

pglewis said:


> I'm sure plenty of people use these but I couldn't find any references for these alternates and figured I'd drop 'em here. I was digging around for smoother ways to do a few things in my personal F2L bootcamp and came up with some sledgehammer/hedgeslammer alternates that seem to flow really nicely, could be useful in some grip contexts:
> 
> l' U l F' // sledge alt
> F l' U' l // hedge alt
> ...


I often use that lefty sledge execution in OH. It's awesome!

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk


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## h2f (Oct 8, 2016)

Finally
http://m.cubecomps.com/competitions/1774/competitors/43


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## newtonbase (Oct 8, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> I already us advanced M2 and cancellations and my edge exec is about 25 sec so comms would have to be very special to save 10 seconds
> 
> I sometimes think of learning comms for some cases that don't have good setups or cancellations. Like PL (speffz) or OC. Are there any easy comms with good move savings that you think are "must know" cases?


How about 
PL - E' L D' L' E L D L'
OC - U' S' U F2 U' S U F2 (a y' at the start might make it more comfortable with Ls and Ms).


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## newtonbase (Oct 8, 2016)

h2f said:


> Finally
> http://m.cubecomps.com/competitions/1774/competitors/43


Well done


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## muchacho (Oct 8, 2016)

Congrats Grzegorz for the sub-20... and that Skewb average is totally awesome!

edit: oh, that Skewb times are wrong, are them Jacub's ones? anyway 9.01 is still awesome


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## mafergut (Oct 8, 2016)

Nice PBs Grzegorz @h2f. Well done! Another one that joins the sub-20 club of oldies.

By the way, I spoiled my promising Ao25 from yesterday, continuing to Ao50 with lots of bad lockups (trying to push too much?) and ending up with 18.55, which is not bad but a lost opportunity.


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## mark49152 (Oct 8, 2016)

h2f said:


> Finally
> http://m.cubecomps.com/competitions/1774/competitors/43


Congrats on that awesome 3BLD result too


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## muchacho (Oct 8, 2016)

And @moralsh is doing well too,
http://cubecomps.com/live.php?cid=1753&compid=1


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## Logiqx (Oct 8, 2016)

I've started documenting my LL algs before I forget them all. 

My pages aren't meant to rival AlgDB as they are solely for my own algs; past, present and future.

Basic features:
- Different "views" group the cases in different ways, especially nice for OLL
- Bookmarks at the top of each view provide links to specific groups of cases
- 2H and OH algs are shown in separate columns
- Clicking on an LL image shows algs for the case along with the derivation(s) and comments
- Abbreviations (underlined) have basic tooltips when you hover over them (computers only)
- Relatively mobile friendly; tablets show everything and phones show a simplified view

It's all data driven (JSON) and the page is rendered in JavaScript. It's by no means perfect but it seems to work on my devices.

I thought it was worth sharing with you guys (see signature). Please let me know if you spot any errors.

I'll try to find some time to do my PLLs in the next few weeks.


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## mafergut (Oct 8, 2016)

Very nice page. I might use it if I ever decide to learn COLL for OH and big cubes.


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## Lid (Oct 8, 2016)

Logiqx said:


> I've started documenting my LL algs before I forget them all.


Looks nice, one tip, make the image(s) background transparent.


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## pglewis (Oct 8, 2016)

Logiqx said:


> I often use that lefty sledge execution in OH. It's awesome!



I was working on F2L 23/24 (categorized as "Weird" on the wiki). The alg I like so far for F2L-23 is U (F R' F' R) U (R U R') (AUF, hedge setup, AUF, insert). I stumbled over the variant grip while working to make the lefty mirror flow well (I like doing lefty mirrors everywhere, half as much to memorize lol).


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## pglewis (Oct 8, 2016)

Logiqx said:


> I've started documenting my LL algs before I forget them all.
> 
> My pages aren't meant to rival AlgDB as they are solely for my own algs; past, present and future.
> 
> ...



We're gonna have to have a tech-geek session some time. I deal with JavaScript a fair bit in my day job (a free WordPress plugin). You just using a MySQL db in the backend?


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## h2f (Oct 9, 2016)

Yhank you all for kind words. I'm very happy with my results. In the second round I got 16.52 single on Valk 3. The 2nd solve could be better but I messed OLL (11), had to redo last slot, did OLL 2 times and finished with 24.83. I must mention that 27.xx in the first round was made by edge pop - it could be sub20.

In skewb - in my round scrambles were pretty nice, I had no pressure and the result came. In one solve I was solving with my son - face to face. I'm very happy with this. 



mark49152 said:


> I already us advanced M2 and cancellations and my edge exec is about 25 sec so comms would have to be very special to save 10 seconds
> 
> I sometimes think of learning comms for some cases that don't have good setups or cancellations. Like PL (speffz) or OC. Are there any easy comms with good move savings that you think are "must know" cases?



Mark, here is my yesterday's 3bld. Splits are 26-20-25. I'm very slow but edges could be faster - there's 5 seconds memory lockup and it took me over 3 seconds to make flip. If you do it in 25 seconds you can really save around 8-10 seconds. When I'm practicing with @JanW trainer my average speed per pair is 2 seconds. If there's 7 pairs in average solve it gives 14 seconds for edges. I think it's worth knowing and using.






For OC (RD - UF) I use setup U2 but I must switch to direct insert y' [U M' U', R2]. For PL I do z' rotation because I dont like E/E' moves. It goes z' [M', U L' U']


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## Logiqx (Oct 9, 2016)

mafergut said:


> Very nice page. I might use it if I ever decide to learn COLL for OH and big cubes.



Thanks. I hope it helps. 

Do you guys like the grid views btw?

http://cubing.mikeg.me.uk/algs/oll.html#grid
http://cubing.mikeg.me.uk/algs/coll.html#grid



Lid said:


> Looks nice, one tip, make the image(s) background transparent.



Oops. I forgot to check the transparency. What brought it to your attention?

Visualcube is semi-broken at the moment and only generating SVG. I used some online tools to convert to PNG, generate sprite sheets and finally optimise the compression. Somewhere along the line they must have lost the transparency.



pglewis said:


> We're gonna have to have a tech-geek session some time. I deal with JavaScript a fair bit in my day job (a free WordPress plugin). You just using a MySQL db in the backend?



I think this is the first JavaScript project that I've ever undertaken. The only other web stuff I've done in the past has been PHP, MySQL and Joomla. My day job is large volume data processing.

These pages are super simple and don't even have a database behind them. They are regular files which can be viewed on a desktop / laptop without stuff like an AMP server.

Each alg set has a separate JSON file which is hand edited. Each page is just an HTML file which pulls in the CSS (style and sprite sheets) and JavaScript files (code and data).

My .htaccess also ensures that resource files (css, sprites, js) are cached long-term by web browsers. The resource files have a version number to allow for this caching approach.

I'll upload it all to GitHub at some time in the future. I want to add some more features before my algs are completely documented.


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## h2f (Oct 9, 2016)

Logiqx said:


> Thanks. I hope it helps.



Yes it helps a lot. Will you do a single page to navigate? I mean - now I have an access to OLL's, COLLs etc by your singature but when I'm on page I cant navigate between them. Or can I?


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## h2f (Oct 9, 2016)

muchacho said:


> oh, that Skewb times are wrong, are them Jacub's ones? anyway 9.01 is still awesome



Me and my son. Same scramble and we solve same face (the easiest) xd


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## Logiqx (Oct 9, 2016)

h2f said:


> Yes it helps a lot. Will you do a single page to navigate? I mean - now I have an access to OLL's, COLLs etc by your singature but when I'm on page I cant navigate between them. Or can I?



Yes, that's my intention. I want to do all of my LL algs plus F2L, F2B, Ortega and big cubes so I'll do a menu system.

I also know a number of intermediate (2-look) alg sets like CLL+ELL, CPEOLL+2GLL, LLEF+L4C which I plan to do after PLL since they are only small.


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## muchacho (Oct 9, 2016)

I haven't done a 4x4 solve in 4 months, I guess it's time to try again. I forgot the OLL parity alg, but it was a bad one so no problem (this one looks better: Rw2' F2 Rw U2 Rw U2' x U2 Rw U2' Rw' U2 Rw U2' Rw2 U2' x' U2).


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## mark49152 (Oct 9, 2016)

h2f said:


> For OC (RD - UF) I use setup U2 but I must switch to direct insert y' [U M' U', R2]. For PL I do z' rotation because I dont like E/E' moves. It goes z' [M', U L' U']


I'm looking for a group or type of comms to tackle first. For corner comms, I learned U interchanges first. It makes it more systematic, so easier to remember and faster to think on the fly, for me. I'm no good just learning hundreds of unstructured algs.


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## h2f (Oct 9, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> I'm looking for a group or type of comms to tackle first. For corner comms, I learned U interchanges first. It makes it more systematic, so easier to remember and faster to think on the fly, for me. I'm no good just learning hundreds of unstructured algs.


I learnt corners with a systematic method like you. For edges it was without any order. Just adding what I've figured out - like "how can I do it directly not with M2?" I'm sure there are grups of comms but I dont know how to group them. I think it's good to start from FU/BD and follow with interchange edges without setups like LU-LD or LU-LB because with adv M2 you know the cases like UL-BL.


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## mark49152 (Oct 9, 2016)

h2f said:


> I learnt corners with a systematic method like you. For edges it was without any order. Just adding what I've figured out - like "how can I do it directly not with M2?" I'm sure there are grups of comms but I dont know how to group them. I think it's good to start from FU/BD and follow with interchange edges without setups like LU-LD or LU-LB because with adv M2 you know the cases like UL-BL.


Yeah I should learn to use FU/BD. For the rest I might work through by brute force and see what patterns emerge.


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## newtonbase (Oct 9, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> I learned U interchanges first





h2f said:


> I learnt corners with a systematic method like you.


So in what order would you guys recommend I start learning? It's my next project once the UKs are out of the way. I'm saving 4BLD until I have a MBLD success.


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## h2f (Oct 9, 2016)

I've started with Noah Arthur's tutorial. He said RFD (target in OP) to all targets. Next FRD and DRF to know whole one corner. Next I did all U targets and steps by steps: L, F, R, B, D but when you know more the less you need to know.


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## newtonbase (Oct 9, 2016)

h2f said:


> I've started with Noah Arthur's tutorial. He said RFD (target in OP) to all targets. Next FRD and DRF to know whole one corner. Next I did all U targets and steps by steps: L, F, R, B, D but when you know more the less you need to know.


Looks like a good place to start. Thanks


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## h2f (Oct 9, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> Looks like a good place to start. Thanks



It helped me:
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLF2ahQ91omyTosrOeYYsJJcQzhJD6rr9Z


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## newtonbase (Oct 9, 2016)

h2f said:


> It helped me:
> https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLF2ahQ91omyTosrOeYYsJJcQzhJD6rr9Z


I have 6 comms plus inverses already!


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## Lid (Oct 9, 2016)

Logiqx said:


> Oops. I forgot to check the transparency. What brought it to your attention?
> 
> Visualcube is semi-broken at the moment and only generating SVG. I used some online tools to convert to PNG, generate sprite sheets and finally optimise the compression. Somewhere along the line they must have lost the transparency.


I don't use white as default background colour, for me it looks like this. 
I know of atleast two other visualcube servers:
http://stachu.cubing.net/v/ & https://www.speedsolving.com/wiki/extensions/algdb/vcube/visualcube.php


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## JanW (Oct 9, 2016)

h2f said:


> When I'm practicing with @JanW trainer my average speed per pair is 2 seconds. If there's 7 pairs in average solve it gives 14 seconds for edges. I think it's worth knowing and using.


Wow, that's really good! Back when I was practicing with the app, even the fastest were something like 5-6 seconds/pair. I should use my own app more often. But there's so many events, so much that needs to be learned, so little time...

I've done my first attempts at timed 4x4 solves. Average about 2:30, best so far 2:14. I have no idea is this is good for a beginner or not.


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## pglewis (Oct 9, 2016)

JanW said:


> ... I've done my first attempts at timed 4x4 solves. Average about 2:30, best so far 2:14. I have no idea is this is good for a beginner or not.



I'm about as beginner as they get on 4x4, picked up a G4 about a week and a half ago and no previous 4x4 experience. 4:16/5:07 best single and ao5 so far, using Yau. I've also done a handful of solves trying out Hoya; I like them both but I'm sticking with Yau for a little while. Most of my slowness is building centers and connecting edges. Also, probably still a 40% chance I forget to slice back or otherwise do something to botch it. You're not far from typical cutoffs!


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## muchacho (Oct 9, 2016)

I was averaging 2:15 at 4x4, stopped 4 months until today, and even after doing a lot of solves I'm barely sub-3, so I have to say 2:30 is quite good.


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## Logiqx (Oct 9, 2016)

Lid said:


> I don't use white as default background colour, for me it looks like this.
> I know of atleast two other visualcube servers:
> http://stachu.cubing.net/v/ & https://www.speedsolving.com/wiki/extensions/algdb/vcube/visualcube.php



Thanks for the heads up. I've fixed all of the images now.

Edit: Even better now... thanks to ImageMagick.


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## pglewis (Oct 9, 2016)

Logiqx said:


> ... My .htaccess also ensures that resource files (css, sprites, js) are cached long-term by web browsers. The resource files have a version number to allow for this caching approach. ...



This falls under best practices but I think it may be a case of premature optimization. You're already using relatively small sprites and the simplicity has limited the number of assets over the wire. The downside of caching is when it does cause trouble it can be quite difficult to duplicate and track down, the behavior on the client-side can be baffling. I'm sure your cache-bust scheme mitigates that but I'd personally just leave that to the browsers to decide unless/until you're addressing a real benchmarked bottle-neck.

That small opinion aside, I love what you've done and how portable it is. 



Logiqx said:


> Yes, that's my intention. I want to do all of my LL algs plus F2L, F2B, Ortega and big cubes so I'll do a menu system.
> 
> I also know a number of intermediate (2-look) alg sets like CLL+ELL, CPEOLL+2GLL, LLEF+L4C which I plan to do after PLL since they are only small.



Definitely looking forward to the expansion, especially F2L. The algs I've picked up from you so far really suit my turning style and I'm wagering you have a pile of exception cases based on destination slot that will make me very happy.


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## Jason Green (Oct 9, 2016)

JanW said:


> I've done my first attempts at timed 4x4 solves. Average about 2:30, best so far 2:14. I have no idea is this is good for a beginner or not.



That's pretty good! I think I was 4-5 minutes for a while. Then stayed over two minutes for quite some time. I'm still just between 1:30 and 2:00 now, only one sub 1:20 so far.


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## teacher77 (Oct 9, 2016)

I got a new PB for a 10+ average : 30.09 s !! Almost there ! Here's the breakdown :

1 23.57
2 27.99
3 27.62
4 28.02
5 37.87
6 29.21
7 32.49
8 28.89
10 32.90
11 31.13
12 28.25
13 28.16
14 29.75

EDIT : also, it's the first time I get two "sub24" solves in the same day.


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## SenorJuan (Oct 9, 2016)

Mike: I've just had a quick look at your algorithm links, all I get is a white page telling me javascript needs enabling. It is enabled, but I guess there's more than one type of javascript....I even tried you 'homepage' to see what other algs etc you might have, and got a 403 forbidden. Do I just wait until I get on a better 'puter?


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## Logiqx (Oct 9, 2016)

SenorJuan said:


> Mike: I've just had a quick look at your algorithm links, all I get is a white page telling me javascript needs enabling. It is enabled, but I guess there's more than one type of javascript....I even tried you 'homepage' to see what other algs etc you might have, and got a 403 forbidden. Do I just wait until I get on a better 'puter?



There's no home page yet... just direct links to specific pages.

What OS / browser / version are you using?


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## SenorJuan (Oct 10, 2016)

A PM exchange with Mike suggests I am using the wrong kind of coal in my computer's boiler, and the pressure is too low. (HeHe).

Back to cubing: a guy I know via my work was rather impressed by my mirrorblocks that I had sitting around in the lab, and he asked me to e-mail him my recommended UK puzzle web-stores .... Marty's shop should certainly have enough to keep him amused. Assuming the excess of Oriental names doesn't overwhelm him.
And I gave a demo of unsighted mirrorblocks solving (with commentary) to my 1980's-solver friend last week, I think he enjoyed it, and the low price-tag may result in a purchase, maybe of the 2x2 version.


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## JanW (Oct 10, 2016)

muchacho said:


> I was averaging 2:15 at 4x4, stopped 4 months until today, and even after doing a lot of solves I'm barely sub-3, so I have to say 2:30 is quite good.





Jason Green said:


> That's pretty good! I think I was 4-5 minutes for a while. Then stayed over two minutes for quite some time. I'm still just between 1:30 and 2:00 now, only one sub 1:20 so far.


Oh? Guess I'm pretty happy with my results then.  Maybe I'm not that much of a beginner after all. I got my first 4x4 about 10 months ago and recently purchased my 3rd cube. Have been playing around with the first two every now and then since I got them, but never timed my solves. My latest 4x4, the KungFu/CangFeng is in a league of it's own, so much easier to work with than my G4 or the previous Yuxin.

I tried a 3x3 Ao12 on the KungFu 4x4 to see how much the cube is slowing me down compared to a good speedcube. Ao12 was 33.44s, about 33% slower than my latest 3x3 Ao100, which doesn't seem too bad to me. I even managed one 25s full step solve.


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## mrs1986 (Oct 10, 2016)

Well, I have been practicing, and learnt the 2 look OLL and I have more consistent times, still have to learn some good PLL algoritms that can be used in "most" situations...

I got a 30.3 seconds solve and I'm averaging 45-50 which is better than the 1:20 I was getting some days ago...

All in all, i'm slowly making some progress, and my finger tricks are not helping me a lot, I have like a lot of pauses on each alg...

One question for the experienced ones, when you do a U2, your fingers rest in the cube or do you lift your hand of the cube?

Thanks a lot!

Mauricio.


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## newtonbase (Oct 10, 2016)

mrs1986 said:


> Well, I have been practicing, and learnt the 2 look OLL and I have more consistent times, still have to learn some good PLL algoritms that can be used in "most" situations...
> 
> I got a 30.3 seconds solve and I'm averaging 45-50 which is better than the 1:20 I was getting some days ago...
> 
> ...


This video by Chris Olson should help.


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## Jason Green (Oct 10, 2016)

I have a hard time with left U2 double flick, and any kind of D2 double flick. I can do them kind of but not really during a solve yet.


----------



## Logiqx (Oct 10, 2016)

SenorJuan said:


> A PM exchange with Mike suggests I am using the wrong kind of coal in my computer's boiler, and the pressure is too low. (HeHe).



Should anyone else have any browser issues...

*Old *working* browsers - tested using browserling.com:*
1) IE 9 (2011-03-14)
2) Chrome 4.0.249 (2010-01-25)
3) Firefox 6.0 (2011-08-16)
4) Safari 5.0.5 (2010-06-07)
5) Opera 11 (2010-12-16)

*Old *non-working* browsers - tested using browserling.com:*
1) IE 8 (2010-06-07) - fails to render
2) Chrome 3.0.195 (2009-10-12) - renders but interactions are ignored
3) Firefox 5.0.1 (2011-07-11) - fails to render
4) Safari 4.0 (2009-2010) - renders but interactions are ignored
5) Opera 10.60 (2010-07-01) - fails to render


----------



## moralsh (Oct 10, 2016)

muchacho said:


> And @moralsh is doing well too,
> http://cubecomps.com/live.php?cid=1753&compid=1



I'm still not entirely myself (I need to catch up a lot of sleep) But It's time to comment a bit on this.

16th competition, 4th national championship and 8th I'm part of the organization. three hectic days with lots of fun and lots to do, that's more or les what I did:

2x2: didn't practice at all since last comp back in June, 8.xx and 9.xx averages. Meh.
3x3: Horrendous first round, I bought a Valks3 and had been doing times in the 15-21 range. then first round (19.99, 24, 24, 24 and 28) and next 5 cubes I did an hour or so after, sub 20 Ao5. Strange.

Second round was way better 19, 18, 23, 19 & 19 maiking it a 19.55 average which is quite nice, it could have been a bit faster, though. I recorded it so will probably upload it some time this week.

3x3OH: nice first round, 35, 30, 31, 1:05 and 36 which translated into a 34.46 PB Ao5, 1:05 was a messed up GPerm. Second round was worse but still sub 40

3x3FM: Did a 41 but messed up writing it down, decided to take care of organizing in the next 2 tries.

3x3MBF: Skipped it. I was in charge of making it work so I concentrated on organizing. Scrambled like 200 cubes during the weekend on multi alone.

4x4: Same story as 3x3. Horrendous first round (1:34 average) with a better second round (1:23) with 6 out of 10 parities IIRC.

5x5: Didn't practice, didn't make the cutoff

Skewb: Meh average and meh single.

Megaminx: Didn't make the cutoff by 1 second on the first solve and 9 on the second, but happy with beating my old single by 47 seconds (2:31 now). will practice more this event

5BLD: No one did it at the comp, me neither. Closest attempt was off by about 6 centres and 4 wings
4BLD: 11:09 PB and 4th place, so quite happy
3BLD: was not in the zone the whole weekend, but at least I made it to the finals. I Need to practice more.

that was about it. 4PBs with very little practice was more than I expected.


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## h2f (Oct 10, 2016)

@moralsh - Congrats.

My solves:


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## pglewis (Oct 10, 2016)

I'm not one of the experienced folks but I might have some useful input. 



mrs1986 said:


> All in all, i'm slowly making some progress, and my finger tricks are not helping me a lot, I have like a lot of pauses on each alg...



Pauses during the alg? If so, work on committing the alg to "muscle memory". With enough practice your hands can learn to perform the moves without a round-trip to the brain for thinking. If you have to make that round-trip your hands end up waiting for an answer. 



mrs1986 said:


> One question for the experienced ones, when you do a U2, your fingers rest in the cube or do you lift your hand of the cube?



For a right hand U2: my left holds the weight of the cube between thumb on the F face and a finger or two on the B face. My right thumb braces on the F face without holding any weight. My right thumb is only there to make sure only the U layer moves, hold it like this with your right hand free like you were going to shake hands with the right. Your right hand should be loose and free this way to use the index and middle to do the turns. For left, just reverse the process of course. Choosing which to use depends on what comes before and after.


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## Logiqx (Oct 10, 2016)

mrs1986 said:


> Well, I have been practicing, and learnt the 2 look OLL and I have more consistent times, still have to learn some good PLL algoritms that can be used in "most" situations...
> 
> I got a 30.3 seconds solve and I'm averaging 45-50 which is better than the 1:20 I was getting some days ago...
> 
> ...



In addition to the video posted by Mark (newtonbase) you might find the following playlist useful:

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLRZHt_6umybxXK7SMTT4UvC9me0lpwStF

Although they are PLL videos you'll get to see how finger tricks can be combined.



h2f said:


> @moralsh - Congrats.
> 
> My solves: 3x3



Nice!

Remind me to update the over-40's rankings when your results are on the WCA website.


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## h2f (Oct 10, 2016)

Logiqx said:


> Remind me to update the over-40's rankings when your results are on the WCA website.



Ok. It'll be in few days I guess.


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## newtonbase (Oct 10, 2016)

I didn't realise until I looked back at my times today but I actually managed a MO3 in 3BLD. Only 2:45 as 1 solve was awful but it's nice to see a few back to back successes when I'm pushing it. Also a 3:03 AO5 including my last solve from yesterday.


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## chtiger (Oct 10, 2016)

Here's a few more official oldie results from this past weekend, that aren't really worth posting, but I'll post and comment anyway.
http://cubecomps.com/live.php?cid=1795&compid=13

3x3 - Goal was PB single (19.33) or avg (22.95), but didn't really care. Both rounds started promising, but then got worse.
20.72, 25.99, 26.14, 24.16, 24.37 = *24.84* 
21.63, 22.29, 28.94, 30.79, 25.53 * = 25.59
*
Square1 - first time at this so guaranteed a PB at least. Didn't really care about this either, but goal was sub-50 avg. Had 3 solves where a piece popped out (twice it went under the table), but overall not much worse than at home, and 50.18 avg, so that's good enough.
46.44, 1:19.80, 1:01.82, 53.44, 42.98 = *53.90*
33.85, 1:12.51, 52.30, 43.74, 54.51 = *50.18*

Clock -the reason I went to this comp was to get at least a sub-11 avg at clock. Had 4 bad solves in the 1st round. Two really easy scrambles, one that I DNFed because a pin wasn't all the way down when I started the second side so it messed up the back side, and a sloppy 11.74. And then the 2nd round was cancelled, so that was a big disappointment.
12.51, DNF, 10.62, 12.74, 11.74 = *12.33*


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## mrs1986 (Oct 11, 2016)

pglewis said:


> I'm not one of the experienced folks but I might have some useful input.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Great! Thanks a lot for the help!! I guess is just practice and practice!



Logiqx said:


> In addition to the video posted by Mark (newtonbase) you might find the following playlist useful:
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLRZHt_6umybxXK7SMTT4UvC9me0lpwStF
> 
> ...



Thanks a lot for the playlist, I will give it a go!


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## moralsh (Oct 11, 2016)

h2f said:


> Ok. It'll be in few days I guess.



@Logiqx both Grzegorz's and my results are up


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## h2f (Oct 11, 2016)

moralsh said:


> @Logiqx both Grzegorz and my results are up



Oh. How fast. Thanks for info. 

I'm 18th in 3bld in Poland (jump from 28) and 6th in this year.


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## muchacho (Oct 11, 2016)

I've received the Qiyi Megaminx, it's good.

Third solve with it (first timed) was 7 minutes, not setting a WR anytime soon.


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## Logiqx (Oct 11, 2016)

moralsh said:


> @Logiqx both Grzegorz's and my results are up


Cool. I'll update them tomorrow morning.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk


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## One Wheel (Oct 11, 2016)

muchacho said:


> I've received the Qiyi Megaminx, it's good.
> 
> Third solve with it (first timed) was 7 minutes, not setting a WR anytime soon.



I've been pleasantly surprised by how fast I've been able to improve at megaminx recently. I haven't learned OLL and PLL yet, but I was running around 7:00 just a couple weeks ago, and after possibly as many as 100 solves I'm more often under 5:00 than over. With a few improvements I'm sure I can cut off another 1:30 to get down to the 3:00 range. I really just need to learn CO and EP that doesn't unorient the corners to get below 4:00, I think.


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## muchacho (Oct 11, 2016)

That's what I thought also, but a few months ago I was able to get under 4:00 without those algs, Megaminx is mainly just practice.


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## h2f (Oct 11, 2016)

And my skewb ao5 9.01. It came out of nowhere - I did maybe 10 solves before round and I was just after 3bld.


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## mafergut (Oct 11, 2016)

Very nice Ao5 @h2f Grzegorz! Did you change the ball bearing tensions of your Qiyi?


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## h2f (Oct 11, 2016)

Yes, I did month ago before previous competition. Now it's slower for me and easier to control.


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## newtonbase (Oct 11, 2016)

Got the Mars cube today. It feels very light. The corners are very square and catch a lot. Not really impressed but with a bit of work (that I won't be doing) I expect that it could be decent. As I was 1p short on the minimum order I bought a 2x2 mastermorphix too which is very nice and worth the order value by itself. 

18th in Poland is very impressive @h2f Well done.


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## h2f (Oct 11, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> 18th in Poland is very impressive @h2f Well done.



Thanks. To be 10th I need sub-55.


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## newtonbase (Oct 11, 2016)

h2f said:


> Thanks. To be 10th I need sub-55.


If you were from the UK you would be 10th already.


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## pglewis (Oct 11, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> Got the Mars cube today. It feels very light. The corners are very square and catch a lot. Not really impressed but with a bit of work (that I won't be doing) I expect that it could be decent. As I was 1p short on the minimum order I bought a 2x2 mastermorphix too which is very nice and worth the order value by itself.
> 
> 18th in Poland is very impressive @h2f Well done.



I just picked up a Mars on a whim too, should be here today. It was time (so to speak) to get a Stackmat for home, also picked up a 62mm YuXin 4x4 to compare against the G4 (which has broken in reasonably well now).


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## h2f (Oct 11, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> If you were from the UK you would be 10th already.



 If I were a rich man...


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## newtonbase (Oct 11, 2016)

pglewis said:


> I just picked up a Mars on a whim too, should be here today. It was time (so to speak) to get a Stackmat for home, also picked up a 62mm YuXin 4x4 to compare against the G4 (which has broken in reasonably well now).


The Mars does have a fantastic logo. I had a further play with it and it's pretty quick but the catches are annoying. The corners definitely need a trim. It has potential for blind.


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## pglewis (Oct 11, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> The Mars does have a fantastic logo. I had a further play with it and it's pretty quick but the catches are annoying. The corners definitely need a trim. It has potential for blind.



Sounds like the Gans Air. It's a cube I really, really like but the for the little catches. I'm guessing the squared corners help with stability as well as corner twists. The Gans feels very stable for me, holding its cube shape; that's probably the biggest feature I notice with it vs my other cubes as well as being very smooth and whisper-y (mine is the Cubicle Premium version, so it was pre set-up).


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## Logiqx (Oct 11, 2016)

I've uploaded my PLL algs including breakdowns if anyone is interested.

The link is in my signature.


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## Jason Green (Oct 12, 2016)

I don't think it's been mentioned here much, what do you guys think of the magnetic 3x3 GTS M? I'm definitely interested to try one and hope they make them legal (even if I don't like it I think it should be).


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## One Wheel (Oct 12, 2016)

Jason Green said:


> I don't think it's been mentioned here much, what do you guys think of the magnetic 3x3 GTS M? I'm definitely interested to try one and hope they make them legal (even if I don't like it I think it should be).



I'm not sure what the argument against making them legal is, especially because as I understand it you could hypothetically achieve the same result, albeit much less durably, with a very precisely machined bump and hollow design in the corners and edges. I'm personally not that excited about the 3x3, but I'm really curious to see what they can do with megaminx and higher order cubes.


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## pglewis (Oct 12, 2016)

Murphy's Law, when you're waiting on toys the post runs _late_. 

Mars: Very loose and unimpressive out of the box. It did not have the stability of the Gans at all but that may improve as I dial-in the tensions. It was clear that it was going to need tinkering so I disassembled it right after first turns and lubed the core + pieces with Lubicle, reassembled, and tightened a _full turn_ all the way around. I may go another 1/8+ before I'm done; might have been better off with weight 4 lube but I'll let this set and break it in some to see where it's at. Tighter tensions seem to have cut down on the catches some, with a little work it might be a poor man's Gans. [Edit note: the tension screws are the smaller phillip's head]

YuXin 4x4: Not nearly as tight and difficult to turn out of the box as the G4, tensions seem a bit loose to me. I'm not going to tinker with this one yet, I'd rather see if the tensions are fine once it breaks in. Stock tension isn't a problem per se until it catches a little, which may iron itself out.


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## pglewis (Oct 12, 2016)

Jason Green said:


> I don't think it's been mentioned here much, what do you guys think of the magnetic 3x3 GTS M? I'm definitely interested to try one and hope they make them legal (even if I don't like it I think it should be).



Are they not legal? The magnetic 'minxes are fine, right? 

I'm curious but nowhere near $50 curious atm. I understand the development cost and it's not a knock on the price at all, but I'm obviously far from maxing the potential of my conventional cubes yet.


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## Jason Green (Oct 12, 2016)

pglewis said:


> Are they not legal? The magnetic 'minxes are fine, right?
> 
> I'm curious but nowhere near $50 curious atm. I understand the development cost and it's not a knock on the price at all, but I'm obviously far from maxing the potential of my convention cubes yet.



It has not been decided last I heard, Chris Olson discussed it on a video and the cubicle had a write up on it I think. Yes the pyraminxes are allowed.


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## pglewis (Oct 12, 2016)

Jason Green said:


> It has not been decided last I heard, Chris Olson discussed it on a video and the cubicle had a write up on it I think. Yes the pyraminxes are allowed.



Since they've cleared the Pyraminxes the only reason I can see it being any discussion would be that the 3x3 records are more "hallowed ground". I saw the same video and we both probably came away feeling it's not an aid of any sort, just another thing that will suit some peoples' style and not others.


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## JohnnyReggae (Oct 12, 2016)

My package I ordered 3 months ago finally arrived yesterday. I've been waiting quite excitedly for this one because it had something new and something to experiment with. 5 puzzles in total.

 

Starting with the experiment ... a Guanlong and a YJ Fisher V2. Seeing as I started doing mods I thought that the cutter cube would be an awesome and easy mod to do, but yet I went for the harder ball and barrel ... go figure. Well around the time I was going to attemp the mod I saw a YouTube video showing how to make a cutter cube using a Guanlong and a Fisher V2 which leaves you with 2 different cutter cubes. Well I can say that that "mod" is awesome. I now have a 3x3 Cutter cube and a Fisher Cutter cube  For very little effort really, and for a great price.

  

Moving on ... Shengshou 2x2 Kilominx. What an awesome puzzle. Quite an easy solve but my current method wouldn't go down in the halls of speedcubing methods  But it is a really fun puzzle to solve. It turns so nicely, really effortless and smooth. If the standard Shengshou Megaminx turned like this I would not hesitate to get it.

 

Next ... Yuxin Blue 4x4. Out the box it wasn't great to be honest. The outer layers were good, but the inner layers were very sluggish and catching a lot. Not really a pleasure to solve on. I did a spring swap almost immedietly. I had a spare Thunderclap V1 and I'd heard about that spring swap so I set about doing that. My first time attempting to change springs on any puzzle. The actual spring swap is easy obviously, it's the assembly of the 4x4 that really takes time. Getting that core assembled is always tricky, but seeing as I've done it quite a few times lately with my mods .... I tape the core with electrical tape when I build it up. It doesn't stick to crazy and once the cube is assembled you can pull it out relatively easily. Anyway ... the Blue with the spring swap is an entirely different cube, the proverbial chalk and cheese. With the Thunderclap springs it is fast, insanely fast. The inner layers move so nicely and freely. The cube is harder to control because the layers do want to move. I like the smaller size like my mini Aosu, even though the MeiYu has been my main 4x4 for a while now. The Blue ... is now definetly my main 4x4. I haven't had anything remotely wanting to pop on it which for a 4x4 is just awesome. As you can see in the pic I've already restickered it with my preferred shades 

 

Lastly ... The Moyu 4x4 Axis. It's an awesome cube ... to look at  I haven't had the courage to attempt it yet as I know I will need some time to get my head around what goes where and which piece is which etc... I don't have any other Axis cubes, I have one coming in the next parcel which is due to arrive in the next couple weeks, so I'm daunted by the 4x4 version. But I will be attempting it soon.

 

This has been quite a long post, mostly probably because I like the sound of my own typing


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## Logiqx (Oct 12, 2016)

moralsh said:


> @Logiqx both Grzegorz's and my results are up





h2f said:


> I'm 18th in 3bld in Poland (jump from 28) and 6th in this year.



The results have been updated on GitHub. It's great to see so many of the regulars officially sub-20!

I see a cluster of you guys in the 19.x range 

14 Mark Rivers mark49152 United Kingdom 19.46 2016 48
15 Raúl Morales Hidalgo moralsh Spain 19.55 2016 42
16 Marcel Poots MarcelP Netherlands 19.80 2015 45
17 Mike Hughey Mike Hughey USA 19.84 2013 50
18 Grzegorz Pacewicz h2f Poland 19.96 2016 41
19 Jason Green Jason Green USA 20.14 2016 41


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## pglewis (Oct 12, 2016)

JohnnyReggae said:


> Next ... Yuxin Blue 4x4. Out the box it wasn't great to be honest. The outer layers were good, but the inner layers were very sluggish and catching a lot. Not really a pleasure to solve on. I did a spring swap almost immedietly. I had a spare Thunderclap V1 and I'd heard about that spring swap so I set about doing that. My first time attempting to change springs on any puzzle. The actual spring swap is easy obviously, it's the assembly of the 4x4 that really takes time.



Are the Thunderclap springs stiffer or looser vs. the stock ones? Or is it something else that makes the swap an improvement? 

Same with the inner layers on the 62mm Yuxin that arrived yesterday, but it's nowhere near as tight as the G4 was out of the box for me. The G4 took a couple days before any inner single slices wanted to happen at all and it has come along nicely while learning 4x4. I plan on doing a bunch of slow 2x2 solves on the Yuxin in the hopes that'll help work out the sluggishness. Also some uneven tensions on the Yuxin as shipped. Attempting to do a Uw on one of the faces moves the single innner slice while the U face barely moves. Currently the G4 beats the pants off it but I'm reserving judgement until break-in.


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## JohnnyReggae (Oct 12, 2016)

pglewis said:


> Are the Thunderclap springs stiffer or looser vs. the stock ones? Or is it something else that makes the swap an improvement?
> 
> Same with the inner layers on the 62mm Yuxin that arrived yesterday, but it's nowhere near as tight as the G4 was out of the box for me. The G4 took a couple days before any inner single slices wanted to happen at all and it has come along nicely while learning 4x4. I plan on doing a bunch of slow 2x2 solves on the Yuxin in the hopes that'll help work out the sluggishness. Also some uneven tensions on the Yuxin as shipped. Attempting to do a Uw on one of the faces moves the single innner slice while the U face barely moves. Currently the G4 beats the pants off it but I'm reserving judgement until break-in.


The Thunderclap springs are looser definitely. If you can spare some Thunderclap springs then I would definitely recommend swapping them over. TheCubicle has a spring set for around $1.

Perhaps disassembling it completely and reassembling it checking that all the tensions were the same when rebuilding it helped as well, but not nearly as much as the spring swap has. I cannot actually believe that different springs can make that much of a difference, it really is amazing. I can't wait for my GAN Air to arrive now because of all the spring options it has. The spare "G" Ges set that I ordered from Australia has even arrived before the cube, so when it does I'll have even more options to try out. Exciting stuff


----------



## h2f (Oct 12, 2016)

Last of my vids. Team solve during warm up before round. I must mention that 3 of us are often taking part in final rounds. That's why it was sub-20.


----------



## mafergut (Oct 12, 2016)

pglewis said:


> Are the Thunderclap springs stiffer or looser vs. the stock ones? Or is it something else that makes the swap an improvement?
> 
> Same with the inner layers on the 62mm Yuxin that arrived yesterday, but it's nowhere near as tight as the G4 was out of the box for me. The G4 took a couple days before any inner single slices wanted to happen at all and it has come along nicely while learning 4x4. I plan on doing a bunch of slow 2x2 solves on the Yuxin in the hopes that'll help work out the sluggishness. Also some uneven tensions on the Yuxin as shipped. Attempting to do a Uw on one of the faces moves the single innner slice while the U face barely moves. Currently the G4 beats the pants off it but I'm reserving judgement until break-in.


That's exactly what happens to my Yuxin Blue 4x4. Trying to do a Uw only moves the inner layer and this only happens on one or two centers. As I just don't have time to tinker with my cubes any more I just left it in a drawer and kept solving my G4. Any advice on how to fix it? I might order those Thunderclap springs and plan it as a Christmas project to do the spring swap.

EDIT: I just checked and TheCubicle is out of stock of Thunderclap v1 springs. They seem to be so popular. Thinking about buying a full Thunderclap instead. To be honest, with shipping from thecubicle the spring set might cost the same as the full cube from Lightake and I can always put the Yuxin Blue springs on the cube and, well, have another spare cube to give to somebody (if it's not too terrible with the stiffer springs). What do you think?

EDIT 2: Also, checking cubezz, here they call it the thunderbolt, right?

EDIT 3: Yeah, it is the thunderbolt. Also in zcube they call it that. Another question. If I decided to try small multi (like 3-5 cubes at most) would it be recommended to buy 5 identical cubes? Would be the stickerless Thunderclap v1 a good choice? I have plenty of 3x3s so as to not really need to buy cubes for multi like... ever (got more than 20) but 5 Thunderclaps will not set me back a lot of money so... why not?

Sorry for the long post and lots of questions


----------



## muchacho (Oct 12, 2016)

Yeah, thunderbolt, also called that at zcube... if you get a stickerless I'll buy you the remaining pieces in the next comp we are both in... if that happens before 2018


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## pglewis (Oct 12, 2016)

mafergut said:


> That's exactly what happens to my Yuxin Blue 4x4. Trying to do a Uw only moves the inner layer and this only happens on one or two centers. As I just don't have time to tinker with my cubes any more I just left it in a drawer and kept solving my G4. Any advice on how to fix it?



Tightening the screw on that side wasn't the answer. I could get it to almost stop doing it by loosening, but I feel like I've loosened that side to near dangerous levels to get it there. I'd be curious if anyone knows a fix or if it might go away with break-in.


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## mafergut (Oct 12, 2016)

muchacho said:


> Yeah, thunderbolt, also called that at zcube... if you get a stickerless I'll buy you the remaining pieces in the next comp we are both in... if that happens before 2018


zcube has great volume discounts. I can get 6 there with shipping for less than 25 euro. Tempting. Regarding the comp I for sure will not go to one until at least 2017 but I hope I can someday have the experience of going to one. Hope to see you there


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## newtonbase (Oct 12, 2016)

mafergut said:


> Another question. If I decided to try small multi (like 3-5 cubes at most) would it be recommended to buy 5 identical cubes? Would be the stickerless Thunderclap v1 a good choice? I have plenty of 3x3s so as to not really need to buy cubes for multi like... ever (got more than 20) but 5 Thunderclaps will not set me back a lot of money so... why not?



My experience is limited but I'd say that it is good to have consistency when solving MBLD. Different cubes might give you a slight memo/recall advantage but I wouldn't like to have cubes that feel very different as it could be a distraction. @mark49152 has lots of Thunderclaps for MBLD. The stickerless ones are fine but personally I find the stickered ones easier for identifying pieces and the stickers give slightly better grip.


----------



## JohnnyReggae (Oct 12, 2016)

mafergut said:


> If I decided to try small multi (like 3-5 cubes at most) would it be recommended to buy 5 identical cubes? Would be the stickerless Thunderclap v1 a good choice? I have plenty of 3x3s so as to not really need to buy cubes for multi like... ever (got more than 20) but 5 Thunderclaps will not set me back a lot of money so... why not?


I bought 3 Thunderclaps at a local competition last year as I wanted to use them for blind and F2L training and I pulled off the appropriate stickers off of each. Truthfully the F2L one was the only one I ended up using for a while. I don't really like the Thunderclap though so I don't really use them much. Having said that though Chris Olson swore by one for a long time and I have heard a lot of people like them. Perhaps if you like the Meiying, just not as fast. But as a good budget cube it's a winner.


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## Logiqx (Oct 12, 2016)

@newtonbase @mark49152 @bubbagrub

Which hotel have you booked into for the UK Champs?

http://www.ukca.org/competitions/upcoming-competitions/uk-championship-2016/accommodation


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## newtonbase (Oct 12, 2016)

Logiqx said:


> @newtonbase @mark49152 @bubbagrub
> 
> Which hotel have you booked into for the UK Champs?
> 
> http://www.ukca.org/competitions/upcoming-competitions/uk-championship-2016/accommodation


Premier Inn - Haymarket. As usual I'm only staying on the Saturday.


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## mark49152 (Oct 12, 2016)

Logiqx said:


> Which hotel have you booked into for the UK Champs?


I have family in the area and am staying with them.

@mafergut, I like to have identical cubes for multi so that changes in feel don't distract me. Others like to have changes in feel to reassure them which cube they are on.


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## Logiqx (Oct 12, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> Premier Inn - Haymarket. As usual I'm only staying on the Saturday.





mark49152 said:


> I have family in the area and am staying with them.



Thanks. In the end, I decided to book myself into the venue itself.


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## pglewis (Oct 13, 2016)

pglewis said:


> Tightening the screw on that side wasn't the answer. I could get it to almost stop doing it by loosening, but I feel like I've loosened that side to near dangerous levels to get it there. I'd be curious if anyone knows a fix or if it might go away with break-in.



I definitely had it too loose. The center piece that the screw sits in got out out of alignment, ending up with the middle layer catch issue. It's keyed to mate with the core only one way so I had to bite the bullet, take the screw out, and open it up. I successfully managed to remove just that layer and get it reassembled without _too_ much cussing and now the wide turns seem to work okay. The outer layers on two sides still slip the slightest bit on wide turns but not like before where it barely turned on the one side.


----------



## pglewis (Oct 13, 2016)

Also, @newtonbase: I'm actually pleasantly surprised with the Mars now. I've tightened the stock tensions a full 1 3/4 turn and the catchiness seems to be mostly gone. I lubed the core and pieces with Lubicle standard after I got it, and gave it two drops of Lubicle Silk earlier tonight. It's actually feeling kind of fun on my slow solves tonight.


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## newtonbase (Oct 13, 2016)

pglewis said:


> Also, @newtonbase: I'm actually pleasantly surprised with the Mars now. I've tightened the stock tensions a full 1 3/4 turn and the catchiness seems to be mostly gone. I lubed the core and pieces with Lubicle standard after I got it, and gave it two drops of Lubicle Silk earlier tonight. It's actually feeling kind of fun on my slow solves tonight.


If I ever get any free time I'll have to have a play with it.


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## Logiqx (Oct 13, 2016)

Logiqx said:


> I've uploaded my PLL algs including breakdowns if anyone is interested.
> 
> The link is in my signature.



I've added / improved the descriptions which explain what most of my PLLs are doing. My breakdowns may be interesting to anyone into alg composition or wanting a basic understanding of how they work.

Some of the cases aren't described yet; namely the G's, R's, V and a couple of my OH algs. I haven't come up with a decent explanation for them yet.

J's are my favourites for easy understanding: http://cubing.mikeg.me.uk/algs/pll.html#letters_j

Click the images for the additional information.


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## mafergut (Oct 13, 2016)

Thank you all for the good feedback. I don't particularly love the Thunderclap either but it is nice enough for BLD, where I won't be pushing maximum TPS and I think having all identical cubes is a benefit that compensates for that and can help me avoid execution errors caused by the change of turning feel between one cube and the next. I have done a few attempts with 2 cubes and that happened.

Regarding stickerless or stickered I am not really sure that I feel increased grip with stickered cubes but I will definitely think about it before purchasing anything. Also I had never heard about better identification of "stickers" during memo on stickered cubes vs stickerless but that would be an important argument. Any other opinions on that?


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## sqAree (Oct 13, 2016)

mafergut said:


> Thank you all for the good feedback. I don't particularly love the Thunderclap either but it is nice enough for BLD, where I won't be pushing maximum TPS and I think having all identical cubes is a benefit that compensates for that and can help me avoid execution errors caused by the change of turning feel between one cube and the next. I have done a few attempts with 2 cubes and that happened.
> 
> Regarding stickerless or stickered I am not really sure that I feel increased grip with stickered cubes but I will definitely think about it before purchasing anything. Also I had never heard about better identification of "stickers" during memo on stickered cubes vs stickerless but that would be an important argument. Any other opinions on that?



It's just my personal opinion, but I feel more at ease with stickered cubes regarding recognition and I think in blind events it's as important as in speedsolving events.
Also I don't think the change in feel with different cubes has a huge impact unless some of the cubes are significantly less stable. So ordering a bunch of Thunderclaps is probably a good idea. ^^


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## mafergut (Oct 13, 2016)

sqAree said:


> It's just my personal opinion, but I feel more at ease with stickered cubes regarding recognition and I think in blind events it's as important as in speedsolving events.
> Also I don't think the change in feel with different cubes has a huge impact unless some of the cubes are significantly less stable. So ordering a bunch of Thunderclaps is probably a good idea. ^^


Thanks! I don't have much of a problem with stickerless cubes regarding recognition. All my big cubes are stickerless and also my main 2x2. My 1st stickerless 3x3 (except for a Zhanchi log ago) is the Valk and I have not had any issues adapting to it coming from all back plastic stickered ones. Do you think 3BLD is any different to speedsolving in that regard? Because, in that case I'd go with stickerless, just to avoid the hassle of ever having to re-sticker 5 cubes... or more, if I ever get into MBLD to the point of needing more than 5.


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## sqAree (Oct 13, 2016)

mafergut said:


> Thanks! I don't have much of a problem with stickerless cubes regarding recognition. All my big cubes are stickerless and also my main 2x2. My 1st stickerless 3x3 (except for a Zhanchi log ago) is the Valk and I have not had any issues adapting to it coming from all back plastic stickered ones. Do you think 3BLD is any different to speedsolving in that regard? Because, in that case I'd go with stickerless, just to avoid the hassle of ever having to re-sticker 5 cubes... or more, if I ever get into MBLD to the point of needing more than 5.



Hm, consider that MBLD cubes are probably much less frequently used, so the stickers will be intact for a very long time.
Apart from that I don't think BLD events are different in that regard, at least when you know your color scheme well enough. I'm not an expert on BLD solving though.


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## h2f (Oct 13, 2016)

mafergut said:


> Also I had never heard about better identification of "stickers" during memo on stickered cubes vs stickerless but that would be an important argument. Any other opinions on that?



I think it's up if you used to use stickerless cubes. For me - no difference when I used to stickerless valks 3: same memo time and same execution.


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## mafergut (Oct 13, 2016)

Fair enough. Then the only issue is, anybody has a stickerless Thunderclap v1 and can give an opinion about the shades? If they are good I'd get stickerless cubes and use my current stickered one for the yuxin blue spring swap. If they're not good enough, @sqAree is right that I'm not going to wear the stickers that much so as to be worried about this... and I'd have 1 cube less to buy even if we're just talking about 2.81 euro. Nah, whatever, I still think 2.81 is a nice price for the springs


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## One Wheel (Oct 13, 2016)

mafergut said:


> anybody has a stickerless Thunderclap v1 and can give an opinion about the shades?



I don't have one, but I got one for my nephew and played with it some before letting him have it. I had no trouble with identification, but I find the pea-green to be a decidedly unpleasant color. Other than that I think it has pretty good colors, maybe a shade toward pastel than vibrant.


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## Logiqx (Oct 13, 2016)

Just for a bit of fun... words used in my OLL descriptions:


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## moralsh (Oct 13, 2016)

Logiqx said:


> The results have been updated on GitHub. It's great to see so many of the regulars officially sub-20!
> 
> I see a cluster of you guys in the 19.x range



Thanks for the work!

Next challenge an official sub 19, Who's up to it?


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## muchacho (Oct 13, 2016)

mafergut said:


> Fair enough. Then the only issue is, anybody has a stickerless Thunderclap v1 and can give an opinion about the shades?


If you don't have problems with the Valk you'll be fine, I think (just from seeing pictures and videos) the colors of the Thunderclap are really similar to those... the green may be a bit different (in a good way) (but my eyes may be lying to me).


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## newtonbase (Oct 13, 2016)

The Thunderclap stickerless shades are as good as any stickerless cubes but I personally find the stickered version easier for blind maybe it's because of the black outlines? 
Got a 3BLD PB just now but still no sub 2mins - 2:00. 978


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## pipkiksass (Oct 13, 2016)

Logiqx said:


> Just for a bit of fun... words used in my OLL descriptions...



Do you find using verbal descriptions helps alg retention? My quest for full OLL is progressing slowly. Maybe you could add the descriptors to your site (which is very nice, btw, reminds me a little of Sarah Strong's site, which I used to use when I was first starting out. 

I remember, when I originally searched the internet for a solution to the cube (rather than *speed*cube), many years ago, all algs were described as a combination of sunes, niklases, antisunes, etc..

I know this comes up from time to time, and I'll be posting in the cross help thread as well, but I'm interested in what my fellow oldies do, rather than kids (no offence to any under 30s who have taken a wrong turn, and somehow ended up on this thread) who can afford to practice for 12 hours a day. When you guys started to solve cross blind, did you sub-vocalise (i.e. memorise then recite moves, such as DU'LR'F...), visualise (i.e. in your head you still 'see' the cross edges), or other? 

After always just spamming solves, I'm finding focussed practice a little hard, I lack discipline! Anyone remember Noah Arthurs' mountain post, several years ago? I should revisit that and maybe stand on one leg on a post on a beach for a few hours, paint a fence, or wax a car (wax on, wax off...).


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## Jason Green (Oct 13, 2016)

I visualize mainly for cross, although telling myself the alg letters is actually not a bad idea. I just never practiced it.


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## Logiqx (Oct 13, 2016)

pipkiksass said:


> Do you find using verbal descriptions helps alg retention? Maybe you could add the descriptors to your site (which is very nice, btw, reminds me a little of Sarah Strong's site, which I used to use when I was first starting out.
> 
> I remember, when I originally searched the internet for a solution to the cube (rather than *speed*cube), many years ago, all algs were described as a combination of sunes, niklases, antisunes, etc..
> 
> When you guys started to solve cross blind, did you sub-vocalise (i.e. memorise then recite moves, such as DU'LR'F...), visualise (i.e. in your head you still 'see' the cross edges), or other?



I'm a big fan of Sarah's website. I used it a lot whilst trawling the internet for "nice" OLL algs.

Verbal descriptions are already on my website but only visible on a tablet or computer.

*OLL 35*
R U2 R' (R' F R F') R U2 R' - Extract pair, sledgehammer, re-insert F2L pair
R U2' (R2' F R F') R U2' R' - Actual execution includes a cancellation

I found learning OLL and COLL like this really helpful, especially when I started trying them in OH solves. Although I wasn't able to rely on 2H muscle memory, I was able to recall most OLLs from verbal memory.

That being said, I had a massive brain fart during my last competition and couldn't remember R' (U' F' U F) R during one of my OH solves!

My descriptions are written in shorthand and you need to hover over abbreviations such as RFS (Right Front Sune) to see them written in full. Oh yes... you also need to know that Sune starts RU or R'U' and the anti-Sune starts RU2 or R'U2'.

*OLL 31*
M (R U R' U R U2' R') U M' - M-slice, RFS, AUF, M-slice
r' (R2 U R' U R U2' R') U M' - Actual execution

Regarding cross, I used a combination of visualisation and sub-vocalising. I think I still do to an extent as I visualise the moves, work out the finger tricks and perhaps use letters as well.

To work out the final AUF, I sometimes use simple maths. If I start with one or more cross-pieces solved and I see they are off by a U2 then I remember that and figure out how my cross solution affects it. If my cross solution includes D or u moves then I add / subtract them to / from the initial offset. This way, I know the final adjustment without having to look and it gives better lookahead into the F2L.


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## pglewis (Oct 13, 2016)

Tales from the n00b: the concept of edge orientation in the U layer _just_ sank in a couple days ago. How did I get far enough to understand enough partial edge control to avoid the dot case but not understand edge orientation yet?!


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## bubbagrub (Oct 13, 2016)

Logiqx said:


> Thanks. In the end, I decided to book myself into the venue itself.


Me too... It'll be nice to be able to roll out of bed, have breakfast and just wander downstairs to compete...


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## Logiqx (Oct 13, 2016)

bubbagrub said:


> Me too... It'll be nice to be able to roll out of bed, have breakfast and just wander downstairs to compete...



Cool. That was my thinking and the available parking seems decent.


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## newtonbase (Oct 13, 2016)

You've convinced me. Shame I booked the Premier Inn in August. The parking around the corner from the venue is the cheapest around. I'm leaving my car there and dragging my case up the road.


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## Shaky Hands (Oct 14, 2016)

UK gang - if anyone wants to just dump a car somewhere for free for the weekend in November then walk/bus from mine then feel free to message me.


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## JohnnyReggae (Oct 14, 2016)

Yesterday I had a great time with an old friend .... Mr Aolong V2  Still the cube with the single most solves done on it and I haven't really touched it in over a year. I've done in the region of 14 000 solves on it, and as I found out yesterday still turns so nicely. I cleaned it out and applied a light lube on the pieces. Did around 100 solves on it during the day and was able to maintain my normal average. I'm still surprised at how nicely it turns ... when it's not catching. It is quite a blocky cube that you have to control. But when you stabalise it it turns really well.

The last few days I've been going through the GAN V2, Yuexiao, Hualong, and now the Aolong. I've realised that each cube handles algs quite differently, so some algs really flow nicely on 1 cube but get stuck and choppy with other cubes. Makes we wish I had cube that was a combination of them all


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## mafergut (Oct 14, 2016)

That happens to me as well. For some reason, H-perm and, in general, M slices flow very nicely in cubes that I don't particularly like and in my mains I tend to lock up a lot on those. The Valk is an exception to the rule but the problem here is mine, it turns so light that I tend to overshoot my M2.


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## h2f (Oct 14, 2016)

mafergut said:


> The Valk is an exception to the rule



I find it the same. I got problems with my Gperm on Thunderclap v2 and no problem on Thunderclap v1.


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## mafergut (Oct 14, 2016)

Got my 3rd best full-step single of all time already with the Qiyi Valk.
13.38 U' F L2 B' L2 D2 B' U2 L2 F L2 B U R F2 U2 L' R D2 F'
The other two better than this (12.89 & 13.06) I got them with a Moyu Tanglong... while it was good, now it's unusable. I have also other 15 singles better than this but with either OLL / PLL skip, with 6 different cubes.

Right now I'm pretty sure the Valk is my new main. I just need a lucky single to prove it


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## megagoune (Oct 14, 2016)

A package arrived 


With no surprise, I really like the Valk. I overshoot the M2s a little, but otherwise I don't need to adapt to anything else.
The QiYi magnetic pyraminx is very nice as well. I only have another one, a Meffert's from 10 years ago. Serious difference...
The kids found the panda "so cute"


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## Chree (Oct 15, 2016)

megagoune said:


> A package arrived
> View attachment 7004
> 
> With no surprise, I really like the Valk. I overshoot the M2s a little, but otherwise I don't need to adapt to anything else.
> ...



I got that Panda for my girlfriend a week or so ago. She loves it's little smirk


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## pipkiksass (Oct 15, 2016)

megagoune said:


> A package arrived
> With no surprise, I really like the Valk. I overshoot the M2s a little, but otherwise I don't need to adapt to anything else..



I'm really torn. I'm going to treat myself to a new cube as a present for returning to cubing, and I've heard a lot of good things about the Valk, but I'm a really rough turner. I should probably work on that (adds to list of things to work on...), but for now I need a cube that works for me. 

I need a fairly stable cube, which is why I'm excluding the Gans - every review I've read says it's unstable and tends to end up out-of-shape after OLL/PLL algs.

So that leaves us with Valk vs. Weilong GTS... thoughts anyone??


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## Jason Green (Oct 15, 2016)

pipkiksass said:


> I'm really torn. I'm going to treat myself to a new cube as a present for returning to cubing, and I've heard a lot of good things about the Valk, but I'm a really rough turner. I should probably work on that (adds to list of things to work on...), but for now I need a cube that works for me.
> 
> I need a fairly stable cube, which is why I'm excluding the Gans - every review I've read says it's unstable and tends to end up out-of-shape after OLL/PLL algs.
> 
> So that leaves us with Valk vs. Weilong GTS... thoughts anyone??


I think my Yuexiao is more stable than my GTS. I don't have a Valk though.


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## Logiqx (Oct 15, 2016)

pipkiksass said:


> I'm really torn. I'm going to treat myself to a new cube as a present for returning to cubing, and I've heard a lot of good things about the Valk, but I'm a really rough turner. I should probably work on that (adds to list of things to work on...), but for now I need a cube that works for me.
> 
> I need a fairly stable cube, which is why I'm excluding the Gans - every review I've read says it's unstable and tends to end up out-of-shape after OLL/PLL algs.
> 
> So that leaves us with Valk vs. Weilong GTS... thoughts anyone??


I've got both and I'd say the Valk.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk


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## pipkiksass (Oct 15, 2016)

Jason Green said:


> I think my Yuexiao is more stable than my GTS. I don't have a Valk though.


Would you recommend it? What's your main, and what is your PB on?



Logiqx said:


> I've got both and I'd say the Valk.


Thanks - have you used thepuzzlestore.uk? Didn't exist when I stopped cubing, I used to use ukcubestore.com, which is still live, but I don't believe Kong, who used to run it, is still doing so (he was off to uni and I seem to recall he said he didn't have time any more).


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## Jason Green (Oct 15, 2016)

pipkiksass said:


> Would you recommend it? What's your main, and what is your PB on?


It's my main and has been since the Gans 356. It is also what my latest PB is on, I can't remember if my previous PB was on the Gans or not, it was over 4 months. I would definitely recommend it, although I do want to try the Valk. And I think the GTS would be great for a lot of people too. Some of my algs feel faster on the GTS but I just can't control it as well.


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## Logiqx (Oct 15, 2016)

pipkiksass said:


> Would you recommend it? What's your main, and what is your PB on?
> 
> 
> Thanks - have you used thepuzzlestore.uk? Didn't exist when I stopped cubing, I used to use ukcubestore.com, which is still live, but I don't believe Kong, who used to run it, is still doing so (he was off to uni and I seem to recall he said he didn't have time any more).


Yes. I've used thepuzzlestore twice and they've been good on both occasions.

Shipped next day and well packaged.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk


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## h2f (Oct 15, 2016)

pipkiksass said:


> I'm really torn. I'm going to treat myself to a new cube as a present for returning to cubing, and I've heard a lot of good things about the Valk, but I'm a really rough turner. I should probably work on that (adds to list of things to work on...), but for now I need a cube that works for me.
> 
> I need a fairly stable cube, which is why I'm excluding the Gans - every review I've read says it's unstable and tends to end up out-of-shape after OLL/PLL algs.
> 
> So that leaves us with Valk vs. Weilong GTS... thoughts anyone??



I got ony Valk - no GTS. I must say it's very stable and it fits to my turning style - first cube I've fully trasted. I got sub-19 ao 50 yesterday and today. Looking forward sub-19 ao100. Really great, but I dont know if it's better than GTS.


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## newtonbase (Oct 15, 2016)

The Valk is excellent as is thepuzzlestore.uk

Do it.


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## pipkiksass (Oct 15, 2016)

That's three votes for the Valk, zero for the Weilong GTS. Looks like I'm going shopping!!!


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## moralsh (Oct 15, 2016)

My 3x3 Average from spanish nationals:


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## muchacho (Oct 15, 2016)

Nice average... is everybody in this planet using the Valk3? It seems so.

@pipkiksass I ordered a megaminx from thepuzzlestore, it's good, it arrived SO soon, I must be too used to buying from China.


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## sqAree (Oct 15, 2016)

Regarding the Valk3 I have to say that its corner cutting is below average (the GTS has definitely better corner cutting) and I also get more lockups on the Valk.
Apart from that it's the most stable of the modern speedcubes.


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## newtonbase (Oct 15, 2016)

Finally got my first sub 2min 3BLD solve. It was 1:41.03! Quicker than my fastest failure. My last 4 PBs have gone 2:28, 2:03, 2:00, 1:41. Bizarre progression.


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## mark49152 (Oct 15, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> Finally got my first sub 2min 3BLD solve. It was 1:41.03! Quicker than my fastest failure. My last 4 PBs have gone 2:28, 2:03, 2:00, 1:41. Bizarre progression.


Nice progress!


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## h2f (Oct 15, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> Finally got my first sub 2min 3BLD solve. It was 1:41.03! Quicker than my fastest failure. My last 4 PBs have gone 2:28, 2:03, 2:00, 1:41. Bizarre progression.


Very nice.


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## pglewis (Oct 15, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> Finally got my first sub 2min 3BLD solve. It was 1:41.03! Quicker than my fastest failure. My last 4 PBs have gone 2:28, 2:03, 2:00, 1:41. Bizarre progression.



Whoa, blasted your PR!


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## moralsh (Oct 15, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> Finally got my first sub 2min 3BLD solve. It was 1:41.03! Quicker than my fastest failure. My last 4 PBs have gone 2:28, 2:03, 2:00, 1:41. Bizarre progression.


 Just push it a bit more and you'll be sub 2 easy  How's your memo?

I'm working on accuracy right now because my official times have dropped as a cause of trying to go safe, I almost didn't make it to the final round on Spanish nationals because of that.


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## MarcelP (Oct 15, 2016)

moralsh said:


> My 3x3 Average from spanish nationals:


Awesome! Although it seems you search a lot causing pauses still the times are good. I see lots of room for improvement!! I need to work hard to beat this average


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## newtonbase (Oct 15, 2016)

moralsh said:


> Just push it a bit more and you'll be sub 2 easy  How's your memo?
> 
> I'm working on accuracy right now because my official times have dropped as a cause of trying to go safe, I almost didn't make it to the final round on Spanish nationals because of that.


I don't know my splits as I never remember to hit the timer prior to execution but most of the improvement is certainly down to memo. Simply trying to force a faster memo and then going back to look at tricky pairs has worked wonders. 

Once the UK Championships are out of the way I'm going to learn corner comms.


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## moralsh (Oct 15, 2016)

MarcelP said:


> Awesome! Although it seems you search a lot causing pauses still the times are good. I see lots of room for improvement!! I need to work hard to beat this average



Yep, Lookahead wasn't very good but I guess Higher speed and lower move count made up for it, I was quite happy after an horrendous 24.xx average in the first round.

On beating me, you just need to stop the timer fast to beat that average 



newtonbase said:


> I don't know my splits as I never remember to hit the timer prior to execution but most of the improvement is certainly down to memo. Simply trying to force a faster memo and then going back to look at tricky pairs has worked wonders.
> 
> Once the UK Championships are out of the way I'm going to learn corner comms.



Memo and think ahead are the two major improvement points, the first one improves with raw practice, the second one with dedicated practice.

I'm also redoing a comms list I'll share it when done.


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## newtonbase (Oct 15, 2016)

moralsh said:


> Yep, Lookahead wasn't very good but I guess Higher speed and lower move count made up for it, I was quite happy after an horrendous 24.xx average in the first round.
> 
> On beating me, you just need to stop the timer fast to beat that average
> 
> ...


I love comms lists. I'm building up a collection of them.


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## h2f (Oct 15, 2016)

4th ao50 sub19 in a row. Im getting closer and closer.


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## mitja (Oct 15, 2016)

Jason Green said:


> It's my main and has been since the Gans 356. It is also what my latest PB is on, I can't remember if my previous PB was on the Gans or not, it was over 4 months. I would definitely recommend it, although I do want to try the Valk. And I think the GTS would be great for a lot of people too. Some of my algs feel faster on the GTS but I just can't control it as well.


Well, i have all of the fast ones now. I have two daughters that speedcube too, so i order and we try to see what fits mine or theirs turning style. 
About GTS 
I first bought white. It was amazing - stable, really good cube. I am cubin only for 18 months now after 30 years pause. When my doughters(11&12)found my old cubes at my mothers house that i used in 1981, I got hooked again. After 30 years, cubes are very different. This year and a half moyu aolong v2 was the one ( with old plastic). Really good cube, makes you work correctly.
Sorry back to weilong. I bought later a black premium one at cubicle. It felt like a disaster , very unstable. Maybe I felt that way just because the white one was so much better. I opened both of them and found out that the white one is slightly different( some plastic is on the screws instead on center pieces). I switched the springs and the core , but it didnt help( didnt switch the center pieces as they would be white on black). Anyway they are not the same and I dont like white background.

With Gans 356s you know the story. It just doesn't hold shape well. Whathever setting, (loosening the corners...) I believe Gans plastic gives you the most pleasing feeling for turning . It also doesn't feel cheap, or to say it mildly, fragile. 
Valk3 feels a bit cheap, like a toy and it is fast. Not shure yet, but way too fast. Dont know how to slow it down. Even with lots of traxsas it is fast. If you tighten the screws it becomes strange as the springs get too tight. For now it feels too fast.
So we are all using mostly yuexiao. It has all , just amazing cube. I managed to set it right. Very stable cube. I like it for 3BLD also.

These days Gans air arrived. I hear about locking problems. Well I just set it right. If I want stability I use red or orange springs. If i use yellow it feels like Valk, but i dont like it. 
If set up right, gans air is stable, controlable, high quality plastic, beautifull cube. Absolutely no lockups.
I play with these cubes because I can, but if I am honest aolong v2 is more then enough to satisfy anybody, the rest is just being spoiled
I am becoming 49 this year and my times are in 21-28 seconds. In a few weeks i will join my daughter in first int. Competition to get WCA statistics and most of all to enjoy.


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## h2f (Oct 16, 2016)

mitja said:


> In a few weeks i will join my daughter in first int. Competition to get WCA statistics and most of all to enjoy.



Good luck!


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## defhacks (Oct 16, 2016)

Just got back from my first comp, and thanks to everyone in the thread who has exuberantly recommended going in the past.
It was awesome! On the comp side, had a lovely mix of nerves and good results.

Sharing and comparing cubes at the practice tables was also all kinds of fun. Some of the best reactions were from people trying out the big Qiyi Sail, and a C4U gas-assisted so I'd highly recommend bringing anything unique. The Fangyuan also surprised a lot of people.

In relation to the current cube discussion above, I just got to try out a Valk 3 and have one en route. I'm not sure how much I'd love it for 2H, but intend to use that for practicing up OH.

The Weilong GTS is an odd beast, some of the ones I tried felt more stable than mine, but there's some weird feeling to the turning of the cube in general that I just can't get into. This really annoys me, because I find the performance on it is amazing.


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## h2f (Oct 16, 2016)

About Valk once again me - jump from 17.46 to 16.44 ao12 and 18.50 ao50 in the morning session. I'm very surprised. I think it's a matter of the good cube which helps me to keep regular practice. I did ao50s almost every day this week.


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## mafergut (Oct 16, 2016)

h2f said:


> About Valk once again me - jump from 17.46 to 16.44 ao12 and 18.50 ao50 in the morning session. I'm very surprised. I think it's a matter of the good cube which helps me to keep regular practice. I did ao50s almost every day this week.


You have now destroyed my PB Ao12  But 1sec of improvement in Ao12 is amazing. Congratulations!!! The curious thing is that your Ao50 is more or less the same as mine so this must mean that you can be on the sweet spot for longer than I can. For me it is difficult to get an Ao12 without at least one or two sup-20 solves and my % of sub 20 solves in an Ao50/100 is around 75% so, 1 in 4 solves is sup-20.


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## h2f (Oct 16, 2016)

mafergut said:


> You have now destroyed my PB Ao12  But 1sec of improvement in Ao12 is amazing. Congratulations!!! The curious thing is that your Ao50 is more or less the same as mine so this must mean that you can be on the sweet spot for longer than I can. For me it is difficult to get an Ao12 without at least one or two sup-20 solves and my % of sub 20 solves in an Ao50/100 is around 75% so, 1 in 4 solves is sup-20.



Yes, it looks like we are at the same level. This ao12 was very lucky and I had few 20's in the session but luckily it started of two 14's. Times were: 14.66, 14.70, 17.69, 17.14, 17.49, 17.76, 16.68, 16.82, (14.12), (23.03), 17.22, 14.18 = 16.44. I've noticed that I got good times in the beginning or in the middle of the session. In the end I'm too tired and everything goes bad. My ratio sub/over20 is 37/13 in this session. 

Edit: 10 more solves to do ao100 and I'm 18.29 ao50.


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## muchacho (Oct 16, 2016)

Reached 30000 timed solves, so it's time for drawing lines. I may have improved like 1 second during last 5000 solves, I'll try to repeat that after 5000 more solves... and I'll try to learn the AS CMLL set.


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## pglewis (Oct 17, 2016)

mitja said:


> These days Gans air arrived. I hear about locking problems. Well I just set it right. If I want stability I use red or orange springs. If i use yellow it feels like Valk, but i dont like it.
> If set up right, gans air is stable, controlable, high quality plastic, beautifull cube. Absolutely no lockups.



I've had no lockups but very common small catches (I have a Cubicle Premium version which they only include the clear/white springs). The catches do not affect my times at all and are entirely due to my lazy turning, but it's an aesthetic thing. My Thunderclap V1s are so forgiving and smooth I've become spoiled. I really do like the smooth feel of the Air and I find it to be very stable about holding its shape for me.


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## mafergut (Oct 17, 2016)

@h2f, Grzegorz you already beat me at Ao50 and I assume by now also at Ao100. And your consistency seems to be far better than mine. Not gonna race you to sub-18 Ao50 because I'm bond to lose 

@muchacho, David, nice progression. How long have those 30 thousand taken? As you can see in the 1st graph the trend is nowhere near flat yet so you have room for improvement.

Fun fact, I got one of my first comments to one of my videos (from someone outside this thread, I mean) and the question was about my mechanical keyboard


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## muchacho (Oct 17, 2016)

467 days

1-5000: 7-jul-2015/11-dic-2015 (157 days)
5001-10000: 25-feb (76 days)
10001-15000: 23-apr (58 days)
15001-20000: 8-jun (46 days)
20001-25000: 9-aug (62 days)
25001-30000: 16-oct (68 days)

Just from being a bit faster I should be doing more solves/day, not less, I'll fix that... but those 109 solves/day in 46 days looks too much.

PS. That keyboard looks cool. My space key fails sometimes


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## mafergut (Oct 17, 2016)

muchacho said:


> 467 days
> 
> 1-5000: 7-jul-2015/11-dic-2015 (157 days)
> 5001-10000: 25-feb (76 days)
> ...


Very nice progression in a little bit over a year!!!
I have been speedcubing since end of 2013. One year and a half later I was averaging around 23-24 seconds. You seem to be averaging close to 20 already. Good job!


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## muchacho (Oct 17, 2016)

Thanks. I would say I'm averaging barely sub-22 though (counting all but DNF solves). I was lazy and DNFs are not recognized as that into the calculation, so a 20 seconds DNF is just taken as a 20 seconds solve in that graph  I'll fix that for next graph.


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## Selkie (Oct 17, 2016)

Sorry been a bit inactive guys, few family bits going on but starting to ramp up practice for UK Championships now. Hope all my older brethren are doing well. Will catch up on the thread as soon as I can.


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## h2f (Oct 17, 2016)

mafergut said:


> @h2f, Grzegorz you already beat me at Ao50 and I assume by now also at Ao100. And your consistency seems to be far better than mine. Not gonna race you to sub-18 Ao50 because I'm bond to lose



Thanks but it was only a moment. I've finished 18.68 ao100 which is the best ao100 I've ever got. Still, slower than your pb.  And it looks like 30% of it is over 20 but most of them are in a range 20-22. I think the most imporatant than sub20/over20 ratio is how many solves are in the range of 14-16 because it makes the average higher or lower. I was just lucky and got good scrambles in this session.


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## mafergut (Oct 17, 2016)

h2f said:


> Thanks but it was only a moment. I've finished 18.68 ao100 which is the best ao100 I've ever got. Still, slower than your pb.  And it looks like 30% of it is over 20 but most of them are in a range 20-22. I think the most imporatant than sub20/over20 ratio is how many solves are in the range of 14-16 because it makes the average higher or lower. I was just lucky and got good scrambles in this session.


Yeah, I agree that the sup/sub 20 ratio is just an indication but also important is that the sup-20s don't go (save for some DNFs, fumbled solves, etc.) over 22 and also the fact that the most likely / most repeated time goes from 19.xx to 18.xx to even 17.xx. Right now my most likely time is 18.xx, need to move towards 17.xx


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## h2f (Oct 17, 2016)

mafergut said:


> Right now my most likely second interval is 18.xx, need to move towards 17.xx



I have a same feeling about my times. Most of them are in the range 18-20 and 2/3 in a range 16-20.  I think practice is the answer how to do it. And buy Valk 3  (in the next week if it's in the stock).


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## mafergut (Oct 17, 2016)

h2f said:


> I have a same feeling about my times. Most of them are in the range 18-20 and 2/3 in a range 16-20.  I think practice is the answer how to do it. And buy Valk 3  (in the next week if it's in the stock).


I'm gonna try to accumulate a session with a good amount of solves over the coming weeks (did I say I have too little practice time already?) like several Ao100s and take a look at the time distribution histogram, see what I get.


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## mark49152 (Oct 17, 2016)

Seems to be a lot of 3x3 discussion these days. Are any of you guys practising anything else? Bigger cubes maybe?

I know about Grzegorz's and Mark's BLD progress of course.


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## muchacho (Oct 17, 2016)

Just this morning I looked how to solve a Square-1 (again), but I'm not sure if I'm going to learn it yet (because I may forgot everything after some weeks of no practice), maybe I'll try to learn it a month or so before a comp (same with relearning Skewb). I'll be practicing Kilominx and Megaminx (and 4x4 is the biggeśt I'll try for now), and maybe finish BLD (probably not this year). But I think I'm going to focus on 2x2 and try to get it down to 5 seconds somehow, using Ortega, CLL (well, most will be CMLL), AntiCLL and some of SOAP.


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## h2f (Oct 17, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> Are any of you guys practising anything else? Bigger cubes maybe?



3x3 mostly. I have a busy time in job so I stopped big blindes. To be in on fire I've started regular practice (20 minuetes per day) of all comms (one day edges, one day corners).


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## mafergut (Oct 17, 2016)

@mark49152 Very little time these days to practice so I have been forced to focus on just 3x3 and some solves here and there with 4x4 or 2x2. I want to cry


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## mark49152 (Oct 17, 2016)

Sound like a lot of oldies are busy too. I'm also struggling to find enough time to prepare for UKC.


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## pglewis (Oct 17, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> Seems to be a lot of 3x3 discussion these days. Are any of you guys practising anything else? Bigger cubes maybe?
> 
> I know about Grzegorz's and Mark's BLD progress of course.



The beauty of being so new to 4x4 is even though I'm glacial I'm setting PRs daily . Slowly getting used to Yau, current single/Ao5: 3:33/3:54 and that single needed both OLL and PLL parity fixes. It's a perfect progress distraction because my 3x3 times are bloated while still working in new F2L stuff.


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## pipkiksass (Oct 17, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> Seems to be a lot of 3x3 discussion these days. Are any of you guys practising anything else? Bigger cubes maybe?



Funny, before I quit I was working on 4x4, OH, and watching Noah's 3BLD tutorials, just starting in card memo. Was also dabbling with pyra and 5x5. 

Since coming back, I really want to crack on with full OLL, blind cross, and lookahead. It's funny how hindsight changes your priorities and, more importantly, focus.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## newtonbase (Oct 17, 2016)

I have so little time it's almost exclusively 3BLD at the moment. I keep one other puzzle to hand at a time to keep ticking over but there won't be any improvement. Other than 3BLD I'm relying on my skewb debut for a PB at the UKs but I'll probably have to relearn it, again.


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## JanW (Oct 17, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> Seems to be a lot of 3x3 discussion these days. Are any of you guys practising anything else? Bigger cubes maybe?


I got a 5x5 again last week. I bought one last year, but ended up giving it away after only a couple of weeks without ever learning to solve it properly. This time I learned to solve it and have played with it a bit more. Just did my first Ao5, which ended up at 5:27. Two sub 5 solves in there (4:51 and 4:59). Not too bad, I think.

Do people use any special algs for PLL on 5x5? I find some, mainly E, H and Z perms, are very difficult to execute on this big cube using my normal algs.


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## CLL Smooth (Oct 17, 2016)

JanW said:


> I got a 5x5 again last week. I bought one last year, but ended up giving it away after only a couple of weeks without ever learning to solve it properly. This time I learned to solve it and have played with it a bit more. Just did my first Ao5, which ended up at 5:27. Two sub 5 solves in there (4:51 and 4:59). Not too bad, I think.
> 
> Do people use any special algs for PLL on 5x5? I find some, mainly E, H and Z perms, are very difficult to execute on this big cube using my normal algs.


E: R2 U R' U' y (R U R' U')*2 R U R' y' R U' R2
Z: R' U' R U' R U R U' R' U R U R2 U' R'
H: R2 U2 R' U2 R2 U2 R2 U2 R' U2 R2
I use these for big cubes and OH. The Zperm I also use for 2H.
I also swear when I get Eperm, but I don't know if that helps.


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## Jason Green (Oct 18, 2016)

I've been still mostly focused on 3x3 (big surprise). I am pretty consistently averaging sub 20, but don't have it officially yet. I have a comp this Saturday so with nerves I may not get it. I'd like a second or two more padding in my home average. 

I definitely enjoy 4x4 quite a bit now, I'm getting 1:30 more often, still not 1:20 very much. 2x2 is even funner now that I have my Weipo. Which reminds me, I never edited my unboxing it's still sitting on my phone! Anyway, I'm about sub 8 on 2x2 at home. I do pyraminx and skewb in comps now, so I better solve once or twice to make sure I didn't forget how.  5x5 I am liking better too, but haven't touched it in a week or so since it's not even going to be at this comp. And OH seems like I will enjoy some day when I practice, but for now it's just hovering around 1 minute on a good solve.


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## MarcelP (Oct 18, 2016)

Jason Green said:


> I've been still mostly focused on 3x3 (big surprise). I am pretty consistently averaging sub 20, but don't have it officially yet. I have a comp this Saturday so with nerves I may not get it. I'd like a second or two more padding in my home average.
> 
> I definitely enjoy 4x4 quite a bit now, I'm getting 1:30 more often, still not 1:20 very much. 2x2 is even funner now that I have my Weipo. Which reminds me, I never edited my unboxing it's still sitting on my phone! Anyway, I'm about sub 8 on 2x2 at home. I do pyraminx and skewb in comps now, so I better solve once or twice to make sure I didn't forget how.  5x5 I am liking better too, but haven't touched it in a week or so since it's not even going to be at this comp. And OH seems like I will enjoy some day when I practice, but for now it's just hovering around 1 minute on a good solve.


Nice! I am still sup 9 on 2x2. About 3x3 competition nerves, I watched a youtube video of ... I think that BLD solver guy Noah, and he had this thing about 'do not care'. He said, for example he was very nervous at 2x2 and with 2x2 a small mistake will mess the times up. So he did 'not care' on purpose by doing a DNF in the middle of the average just to make the nerves go away. I was always very nervous but picked up from that video. So for example, I used my uncontrollable Valk3 in stead of my main cube. Just to get rid of the nerves part. Or I do a Roux solve in an average. Or I do the whole second round on none white/yellow cross. Anything to take away the thing of wanting to do excellent. And it helped me alot. And now I have two sub 20 avrages which I am so proud of. Last comp I took my horrible SS 4x4. It helped me with my nerves.. but I did not realise that at my best I have 20 - 30 more seconds in an average whith a horrible ShengShou.. LOL. Will not do that again. I am sure you will get a sub 20 or even sub 19 average this weekend! After all, you are the most talented oldie getting this fast so soon.


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## JohnnyReggae (Oct 18, 2016)

My first sub 10 and a new PB 9.57  Quite lucky with this one in the end, managed to get 3 pairs formed for me while I was inserting the 1st and 2nd pairs and a PLL skip.

B U B2 U R2 F2 L2 U2 L2 F2 D L B R2 D' B F2 D' L B2

z2 // inspection
D B2 L F R' F' // cross 6
L U' L' U y' L' U' L // 1st 13
L U' L' // 2nd 16
U R' U R // 3rd 20
R U2' R' // 4th 23
U' r U R' U R U2 r' U2 // oll pll-skip 32

// = 9.57 @ 3.43tps


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## mafergut (Oct 18, 2016)

Now I'm envious, @JohnnyReggae. You got a sub-10 before I did... if I ever get one 
Congratulations. Quite lucky but that's what's needed for a PB single, right? So, well done!!!


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## moralsh (Oct 18, 2016)

wow, just wow, @JohnnyReggae now that's going to be very hard to beat 

@muchacho, I know you don't have plans to go to another comp this year but... https://www.worldcubeassociation.org/competitions/CerbunaOpen2016

also @mafergut, you have another one in 10 days around the same distance in Villanueva de la Cañada


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## muchacho (Oct 18, 2016)

Thanks, probably I'll pass, but it would be awesome if each year there were two comps there so I could choose one.


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## pglewis (Oct 18, 2016)

Jason Green said:


> I've been still mostly focused on 3x3 (big surprise). I am pretty consistently averaging sub 20, but don't have it officially yet. I have a comp this Saturday so with nerves I may not get it. I'd like a second or two more padding in my home average.
> 
> I definitely enjoy 4x4 quite a bit now, I'm getting 1:30 more often, still not 1:20 very much. 2x2 is even funner now that I have my Weipo. Which reminds me, I never edited my unboxing it's still sitting on my phone! Anyway, I'm about sub 8 on 2x2 at home. I do pyraminx and skewb in comps now, so I better solve once or twice to make sure I didn't forget how.  5x5 I am liking better too, but haven't touched it in a week or so since it's not even going to be at this comp. And OH seems like I will enjoy some day when I practice, but for now it's just hovering around 1 minute on a good solve.



I know, "easier said than done", but find whatever puts you into your most confident state so it's just another solve. You've done thousands and you don't need to do anything differently. (Says the guy who totally choked at comp )

Best of luck and enjoy yourself! Y'all are my heros right now


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## MarcelP (Oct 18, 2016)

JohnnyReggae said:


> My first sub 10 and a new PB 9.57  Quite lucky with this one in the end, managed to get 3 pairs formed for me while I was inserting the 1st and 2nd pairs and a PLL skip.
> 
> B U B2 U R2 F2 L2 U2 L2 F2 D L B R2 D' B F2 D' L B2
> 
> ...


Three pairs in 10 moves.. That is like wining the cube lottery LOL.. Especially with a PLL skip added to that. Nice!


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## JohnnyReggae (Oct 18, 2016)

MarcelP said:


> Three pairs in 10 moves.. That is like wining the cube lottery LOL.. Especially with a PLL skip added to that. Nice!


It was quite fortuitous  Something similar to my previous best of 10.68 which had a last layer skip  But I'll take it. Getting a sub 10 is like the Holy Grail for me. It certainly is and has been an ultimate goal to achieve. Now I just need to get more


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## pglewis (Oct 20, 2016)

pglewis said:


> The beauty of being so new to 4x4 is even though I'm glacial I'm setting PRs daily . Slowly getting used to Yau, current single/Ao5: 3:33/3:54 and that single needed both OLL and PLL parity fixes. It's a perfect progress distraction because my 3x3 times are bloated while still working in new F2L stuff.



Now down to 3:17/3:43 on 4x4, sub 3 mins shouldn't be too far off. 

I did a handful of timed 3x3 solves for the first time in ages, just as a check-in, but didn't let the timer force me into old habits. Still regressed towards 1 min with the thinking time but some low 40s and a 38 mixed in, which is all I needed to know. I'm confident this should drop me closer to mid 30s averages when I come out on the other side but a lot of practice to go to get things smoother.


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## JohnnyReggae (Oct 20, 2016)

This is my current collection of puzzles ... a few have been left out like my original Rubiks cube which I got in 1981 and my 3x3x1 which broke 2 days after getting it, and a few extra 3x3's and 4x4's. I also have another package with 4 new puzzles waiting at the post office which I am hoping to get today. That package includes 2 Ghost cubes, a GAN Air, and a 3x3 Axis.


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## mafergut (Oct 20, 2016)

Nice collection @JohnnyReggae!

I just received my stickerless Moyu Magnetic Pyraminx. I am still busy so no time to play with it except unboxing and first turns but it was an instant main. Feeling is a bit strange without the ball bearings but it turns great!


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## newtonbase (Oct 20, 2016)

JohnnyReggae said:


> This is my current collection of puzzles ... a few have been left out like my original Rubiks cube which I got in 1981 and my 3x3x1 which broke 2 days after getting it, and a few extra 3x3's and 4x4's. I also have another package with 4 new puzzles waiting at the post office which I am hoping to get today. That package includes 2 Ghost cubes, a GAN Air, and a 3x3 Axis.
> 
> View attachment 7056


That's a very nice set of puzzles.


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## pglewis (Oct 21, 2016)

pglewis said:


> Now down to 3:17/3:43 on 4x4, sub 3 mins shouldn't be too far off.
> 
> I did a handful of timed 3x3 solves for the first time in ages, just as a check-in, but didn't let the timer force me into old habits. Still regressed towards 1 min with the thinking time but some low 40s and a 38 mixed in, which is all I needed to know. I'm confident this should drop me closer to mid 30s averages when I come out on the other side but a lot of practice to go to get things smoother.



Did a full Ao12 on 4x4 tonight, 1/5/12: 2:38/3:20/3:39. That single was a serious outlier and my only sub 3 min, mostly from good lookahead (for me) especially transitioning between stages. Should have had another one with a 3:04 where I missed the PLL parity, then needed an extra U perm at the end. One DNF where I totally missed the PLL parity, and one other botched solve where I solved the centers in the wrong sequence but somehow didn't notice until the 3x3 stage lol.


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## muchacho (Oct 21, 2016)

When I put the centers wrong I don't realize until (what I think is) the last move of the solve (because of using Roux).


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## JohnnyReggae (Oct 21, 2016)

Another package arrived yesterday, 3 months it took in all. Again I blame my local postal system as previous orders from Cubezz took only a month to arrive. Anyway some exciting stuff even though there were only 4 puzzles.

 
GAN Air
YJ Axis
Lim 2x2 Ghost Cube
FangCun 3x3 Ghost Cube

Starting with the Ghost cubes. All I've done so far is apply the stickers that came with them as they come unstickered. Haven't attempted to scramble them yet as I'm so scared  They are both a daunting prospect and I need some time to get my head around things with them. Hopefully I'll have some time this weekend as I'm going away to go chill next to the sea. As for turning, they both seem to turn ok, the 2x2 is catching a bit but I think with some use that will get sorted out. The 3x3 on the other hand is so smooth and turns almost too easily. As for the stickers I prefer the stickers that came with the 2x2. They are more textured and have quite a nice feel.
  

The YJ Axis is an awesome puzzle. Somewhat similar to the Mastermorphix in it's solve so I really like it. It also turns very well, again almost 2 well. Going to enjoy solving it more.
 

Lastly the GAN Air. I've been missioning with this puzzle since I opened it. So far I have tried 4 different spring sets. Starting with the White, then Yellow, the Orange, then back to White, then Green, then back Yellow, and finally back to White. I have also loosened the screws in both the corners and edges to stop the incessant catching which was driving me crazy. Loosening the screws in the edges and corners obviously loosens the whole puzzle. So where the tensions seemed right with the Yellow springs, as soon as I loosened the screws in the edges the cube felt to loose so I had to go back to the White springs. Right now it's the best I've had it. It still has some small catches, but I think I just need to spend some decent time with it and get a few hundred solves done and then reassess.


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## pipkiksass (Oct 21, 2016)

OK, so just received my Valk 3 (thanks for the recommendation, guys) and I guess its a nice cube. Since starting cubing again I'm sup 20 and I've had a few 17s and a 16 - haven't been doing too many timed solves though...

Is this coincidence - my third timed solve on the Valk 3 was 15.55? Kind of a 'PB' (since returning), but also exactly 10 seconds off Mats' original world record. 

Also, while we're on the subject, what's with the box this cube comes in? Looks amazing, but the puzzle I ordered was a speedcube, not an exercise in removing one cardboard box from another cardboard box barely a millimetre larger!!

I'm off to finish an Ao50, then lube and tension. God I missed cubing!!! :-D


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## pipkiksass (Oct 21, 2016)

Sorry for the double post, but last 3 times (bearing in mind I'm sup 20 these days) - 15.28, 16.43, 14.47...

OK, so beat my PB Ao5 - 15.28, 16.43, 14.47,19.19, 14.71 = 15.47!!!



Spoiler



number of times: 49/50
best time: 14.47
worst time: 26.96

current avg5: 20.98 (σ = 1.55)
best avg5: 15.47 (σ = 0.88)

current avg12: 21.56 (σ = 2.59)
best avg12: 18.73 (σ = 2.55)

current avg50: 20.49 (σ = 2.53)
best avg50: 20.49 (σ = 2.53)

session avg: 20.49 (σ = 2.53)
session mean: 20.39


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## newtonbase (Oct 21, 2016)

pipkiksass said:


> Also, while we're on the subject, what's with the box this cube comes in? Looks amazing, but the puzzle I ordered was a speedcube, not an exercise in removing one cardboard box from another cardboard box barely a millimetre larger!!


Absolutely agree. It's solving the puzzle that's meant to be difficult, not getting to it.


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## megagoune (Oct 21, 2016)

JohnnyReggae said:


> This is my current collection of puzzles ... a few have been left out like my original Rubiks cube which I got in 1981 and my 3x3x1 which broke 2 days after getting it, and a few extra 3x3's and 4x4's. I also have another package with 4 new puzzles waiting at the post office which I am hoping to get today. That package includes 2 Ghost cubes, a GAN Air, and a 3x3 Axis.
> 
> View attachment 7056


Nice collection.
Did you do the 3x3 and 4x4 spheres yourself? Or can you buy that somewhere?


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## newtonbase (Oct 21, 2016)

World Championships are 14th to 17th July. Who fancies it?


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## mark49152 (Oct 21, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> World Championships are 14th to 17th July. Who fancies it?


Definitely. Dates don't show up on the mobile site though...?


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## Jason Green (Oct 22, 2016)

pipkiksass said:


> Is this coincidence - my third timed solve on the Valk 3 was 15.55? Kind of a 'PB' (since returning), but also exactly 10 seconds off Mats' original world record.
> 
> Also, while we're on the subject, what's with the box this cube comes in? Looks amazing, but the puzzle I ordered was a speedcube, not an exercise in removing one cardboard box from another cardboard box barely a millimetre larger!!
> 
> I'm off to finish an Ao50, then lube and tension. God I missed cubing!!! :-D


If it's not coincidence then maybe it means you'll set a world record?? 

From what I've seen the Valk box is trying to look like an iPhone box. 


newtonbase said:


> World Championships are 14th to 17th July. Who fancies it?


I fancy it, can you fly me out please?!


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## newtonbase (Oct 22, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> Definitely. Dates don't show up on the mobile site though...?


The dates have been removed which is very annoying. If they have booked the venue then they know when it is and they need to confirm it to us.


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## newtonbase (Oct 22, 2016)

Jason Green said:


> I fancy it, can you fly me out please?!


I'll send my private jet! ☺


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## JohnnyReggae (Oct 22, 2016)

megagoune said:


> Nice collection.
> Did you do the 3x3 and 4x4 spheres yourself? Or can you buy that somewhere?


I made the 3x3 and 4x4 Spheres (balls) and the Barrels (3, 4, and 5), except for the Hexagonal Barrel which is an original Rubiks that I got in 1981.

The modding process isn't that hard, it just takes time really. I have some more projects in mind and I have the cubes already, I just need to find the time to start them.


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## newtonbase (Oct 22, 2016)

The WCA have clarified that the World Championships will be be on that weekend but might include Thursday 13th as well. 

I tidied up my puzzles today. Thunderclap count is 13 and I have no idea how I've ended up with 7 4x4s. Total count is high 70s. I'll stop at 100. Maybe.


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## newtonbase (Oct 22, 2016)

Got my 2nd sub 2min 3BLD solve with a PB of 1:32.93. Lovely scramble.
L2 U B2 D2 U' R2 D R2 F' D' F' R2 B D' R' F' U B' D' Rw2

Edit: I don't time splits but I did the same solve again at 58s which felt quicker than the original putting memo at around 30s. Very happy with that.


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## mark49152 (Oct 22, 2016)

@newtonbase, rapid progress, you are fast catching me up. I will have to practise more!


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## newtonbase (Oct 22, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> @newtonbase, rapid progress, you are fast catching me up. I will have to practise more!


I have a long way to go!


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## mark49152 (Oct 22, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> I have a long way to go!


Not that far, and at the rate you're going...

Nice haul of PBs today @Jason Green. Now another of us 40s in the 19s.


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## Jason Green (Oct 22, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> Not that far, and at the rate you're going...
> 
> Nice haul of PBs today @Jason Green. Now another of us 40s in the 19s.


Thanks so much, I almost posted earlier but was kind of drained.  My goal was sub 20 average today, that second solve I totally blew the cross and privacy spent 8 seconds on it, with a 26! After that I basically gave up, but got a PB single next solve which relaxed me. 

I try to keep goals not to tight because I know how I choke in lots of things. My last comp I wanted the single and probably had 90+ percent chance of getting one out of five. This time I wanted the average, but in reality probably had like a 75 or 80 percent chance at it, so I was sweating it a little more.


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## mark49152 (Oct 22, 2016)

Jason Green said:


> This time I wanted the average, but in reality probably had like a 75 or 80 percent chance at it, so I was sweating it a little more.


That's the thing with comps. No matter how you're doing at home, it can all be very different under comp pressure.


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## pglewis (Oct 23, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> Got my 2nd sub 2min 3BLD solve with a PB of 1:32.93. ...



That "go big or go home" attitude on bld is starting to pay off for you!


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## pglewis (Oct 23, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> Nice haul of PBs today @Jason Green. Now another of us 40s in the 19s.



I totally forgot that was today, nicely done @Jason Green! Just a sea of orange times, every time you go out it's a PR.


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## Jason Green (Oct 23, 2016)

pglewis said:


> I totally forgot that was today, nicely done @Jason Green! Just a sea of orange times, every time you go out it's a PR.


So far I've been spoiled like that for sure! I was right in what I said the strength of the field keeps getting better too. Now it's taking 16 seconds for round two, I feel like if I can get there some day it'll take 12.


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## mark49152 (Oct 23, 2016)

Jason Green said:


> I was right in what I said the strength of the field keeps getting better too. Note it's talking 16 seconds for round two, I feel like if I can get there some day it'll take 12.


The problem is that they only put through 24/73 to the second round. That's a small second round. I would say the distribution of times was fairly typical. In the comps I've been to, the second round threshold has varied between high 20s when they've put through the maximum 75% down to low 20s when they've put through about half. Those would have held for Dallas Fall 2016 too.


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## Shaky Hands (Oct 23, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> World Championships are 14th to 17th July. Who fancies it?



Very good chance I'll be there. Will look into flights (maybe from Birmingham) once everything has been confirmed.


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## newtonbase (Oct 23, 2016)

Shaky Hands said:


> Very good chance I'll be there. Will look into flights (maybe from Birmingham) once everything has been confirmed.


Eurostar looks favourite for me. The venue is only 2 miles from the station.


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## Berd (Oct 23, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> Eurostar looks favourite for me. The venue is only 2 miles from the station.


That sounds awesome.


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## newtonbase (Oct 23, 2016)

Berd said:


> That sounds awesome.


It is. With the right connections I could be door to door in 4 hours.


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## Shaky Hands (Oct 23, 2016)

Oh really? Cool, will do that then.


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## newtonbase (Oct 23, 2016)

Shaky Hands said:


> Oh really? Cool, will do that then.


It just depends how easily you can get to London.


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## Shaky Hands (Oct 23, 2016)

I'll find a way, no worries.


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## muchacho (Oct 24, 2016)

New 3x3 Mo100 PB, 20.303, it was 20.742 from 5 weeks ago.

Also 4x4 Ao5 PB: 1:54.512, 5 months old PB (4 months break) was 1:56.246.

Are there now better 4x4 cubes than the Guansu? I think I'll try to have everything in stickerless.


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## mafergut (Oct 24, 2016)

muchacho said:


> New 3x3 Mo100 PB, 20.303, it was 20.742 from 5 weeks ago.
> 
> Also 4x4 Ao5 PB: 1:54.512, 5 months old PB (4 months break) was 1:56.246.
> 
> Are there now better 4x4 cubes than the Guansu? I think I'll try to have everything in stickerless.


Nice improvement. If you want a nice stickerless 4x4 I'd recommend the CB G4. The Yuxin Blue is also good they say but will take some break in, lubing and tensioning, maybe even spring swap, whereas the G4 will only require break in. Both are smaller (60mm) than the Guansu, which for me is a plus. If you want a regular size one (62mm) the KungFu CangFeng can be an option.


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## pglewis (Oct 24, 2016)

Anyone fool around with VHF2L? I guess the general consensus is the extra time for the last pair isn't worth it but some of the shorter algs seem well worth knowing. Two of the first three cases I applied it to ended in an OLL skip. I know that was crazy luck but a 1/72 chance still ain't bad plus you're guaranteed a COLL case regardless, if I'm not mistaken.


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## CLL Smooth (Oct 24, 2016)

pglewis said:


> Anyone fool around with VHF2L? I guess the general consensus is the extra time for the last pair isn't worth it but some of the shorter algs seem well worth knowing. Two of the first three cases I applied it to ended in an OLL skip. I know that was crazy luck but a 1/72 chance still ain't bad plus you're guaranteed a COLL case regardless, if I'm not mistaken.


I used to use VHLS in practice all the time. I only use the easy cases some of the time now, and the only split pair case I use is to avoid a dot OLL. I think they're advantageous in OH and big cubes more than 2H. However, very useful for practicing COLL.


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## pglewis (Oct 24, 2016)

CLL Smooth said:


> I used to use VHLS in practice all the time. I only use the easy cases some of the time now, and the only split pair case I use is to avoid a dot OLL. I think they're advantageous in OH and big cubes more than 2H. However, very useful for practicing COLL.



One other thought is it seems plausible that one could influence the easier cases with some edge control in the first three slots, again at the expense of a little slower insertion. As green as I am and going through F2L "boot camp" right now I figure it's worth playing with for the F2L tricks alone. Some insertion techniques there that I've never considered.


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## CLL Smooth (Oct 24, 2016)

Definitely a can do. Feliks even has a video on that on his YouTube.


pglewis said:


> One other thought is it seems plausible that one could influence the easier cases with some edge control in the first three slots, again at the expense of a little slower insertion. As green as I am and going through F2L "boot camp" right now I figure it's worth playing with for the F2L tricks alone. Some insertion techniques there that I've never considered.


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## mark49152 (Oct 24, 2016)

pglewis said:


> Anyone fool around with VHF2L?


I have used it in the past, but I don't think it's any better than some basic edge control. My problem with it was that I solve to all four slots and trying to mirror VHLS was just awkward, especially to back slots. Except for the very simplest cases of course, which are really only edge control techniques anyway.


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## pipkiksass (Oct 25, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> I have used it in the past, but I don't think it's any better than some basic edge control. My problem with it was that I solve to all four slots and trying to mirror VHLS was just awkward, especially to back slots. Except for the very simplest cases of course, which are really only edge control techniques anyway.



@pglewis I too once fooled around with VHLS. There were a couple of really useful cases which I occasionally used when solving, but I've totally forgotten! These days I use a little intuitive edge control (i.e. sledgehammer/hedgeslammer) to avoid dot OLLs. As Mark says, these are also easier to flip/mirror. 

Once I've finished full OLL I may invest some time in some of the simpler Winter Variation cases or Magic Wondeful. Always nice to skip an OLL, and even better when you know it's going to happen!


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## mafergut (Oct 25, 2016)

Promising time distribution of my latest Ao25. It was just 18.56 because there are no great solves in there but very consistent save for the 3 sup-20 solves (two of them in a row ). Nice sub-20 percentage also (80%) and good to see that the most likely result is a 17.xx and almost 50% of the solves are sub-18 (12/25). Now I feel finally sub-20 globally as it is very rare that I get sup 20 in any Ao12 or larger. I also start to think that a 19.xx is a bad solve. Also convinced that the Valk 3 is my new main, hands down.

16+: XXX 3
17+: XXXXXXXXX 9
18+: XXXXXX 6
19+: XX 2
20+: XX 2
21+: X 1
22+: X 1
23+: X 1


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## pipkiksass (Oct 25, 2016)

mafergut said:


> Also convinced that the Valk 3 is my new main, hands down.



Kudos on global sub-20, remember those days and it's very satisfying! 

Thanks very much for the Valk recommendation, I'm getting great times with it, it's such a massive leap for me from the Weilong v1. I have fairly small hands, and for a lot of my LL algs it's just so much smoother. 

I'd say I'm probably globally about 20.5 already thanks largely to the cube after about a week back. I've had a 13 and several 14s with it, and most of my sup 20 solves are either significant lockups, messing up OLL recognition, or OLLs I just don't know.

I reckon another week and I'm be back sub 20, and when I finish OLL I'll be sub 19. Don't know why people are so negative about full OLL on this forum...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## sqAree (Oct 25, 2016)

pipkiksass said:


> Don't know why people are so negative about full OLL on this forum...



Thing is, as long as one improves without learning OLL there is no "need" to learn it and one can think that we would learn OLL whenever we're stuck, adding a kind of extra improvement any time.

In my case I was never really stuck and I'm lazy so I don't learn OLL (average ~15 atm).


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## mark49152 (Oct 25, 2016)

pipkiksass said:


> Don't know why people are so negative about full OLL on this forum...


Yeah I find that one of the more irritating bits of bogus advice to get peddled on these forums, because the logic is so twisted. Every so often someone wheels out some video of Collin Burns or someone doing a sub-13 average with 2LOLL and claims it as evidence that you don't "need" full OLL to be fast. Well, you can find videos of fast people solving sub-20 with LBL, but nobody uses that as evidence you don't "need" F2L. I'll stop now before this becomes a rant...


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## pglewis (Oct 25, 2016)

That's another thing I was going mention, I'm also slowly going to be picking up some more OLL cases even though F2L is going to be my focus for weeks to come. I see no reason to wait until I've squeezed what I can from other areas and then try to digest all of them at once so I'm already slowly adding some of the easier and shorter ones... Ts, squares, "stealth", etc. Taking advantage of this slow-solve period to add more new stuff to slow me down more lol.


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## mark49152 (Oct 25, 2016)

@pglewis, I can't remember if I already shared this recently: https://www.speedsolving.com/forum/threads/when-and-how-to-move-from-2-look-to-1-look-oll.41380/


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## pglewis (Oct 25, 2016)

pipkiksass said:


> Once I've finished full OLL I may invest some time in some of the simpler Winter Variation cases or Magic Wondeful. Always nice to skip an OLL, and even better when you know it's going to happen!



Yeah, the more I read on theory stuff the more attractive it feels to me to learn a smorgasbord of some the most common cases and shortest algs from various sub-methods vs. laser focus on any particular one.


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## pglewis (Oct 25, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> @pglewis, I can't remember if I already shared this recently: https://www.speedsolving.com/forum/threads/when-and-how-to-move-from-2-look-to-1-look-oll.41380/



Brilliant! Reassuring to see that my first new OLL targets are indeed high on the move savings list but nothing like having hard data to back it up. That PDF looks like everything I wanted to ask for but didn't know to.


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## newtonbase (Oct 25, 2016)

I didn't know about the full document but have referred to the top third cases often.


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## h2f (Oct 25, 2016)

mafergut said:


> Promising time distribution of my latest Ao25. It was just 18.56 because there are no great solves in there but very consistent save for the 3 sup-20 solves (two of them in a row ). Nice sub-20 percentage also (80%) and good to see that the most likely result is a 17.xx and almost 50% of the solves are sub-18 (12/25). Now I feel finally sub-20 globally as it is very rare that I get sup 20 in any Ao12 or larger. I also start to think that a 19.xx is a bad solve. Also convinced that the Valk 3 is my new main, hands down.



I'm impressed how many solves you do....

About full OLL - another annoying thing: dont learn dots. In fact I think dots are fine - almost all dots I can do sub-2, some sub 1.2 and they are so easy... Just saying.


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## mark49152 (Oct 25, 2016)

h2f said:


> About full OLL - another annoying thing: dont learn dots. In fact I think dots are fine - almost all dots I can do sub-2, some sub 1.2 and they are so easy... Just saying.


Yes - and unless you do edge control, you're doing a dot alg anyway in 2LOLL. F sexy F' f sexy f' or whatever. What a waste to do all those moves and still be left with an OCLL! Unsurprisingly they are among the highest move savings of all the OLLs, and like you say, they are easy to learn.


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## pipkiksass (Oct 25, 2016)

Right, I resurrected the CFOP substep comp - New CFOP Substep Competition

Anyone who wants to join in, feel free. I'll do my entry tomorrow, off to bed now. 

I'll try to keep on top of stats, etc., but I'll be in hospital a lot (I noticed before I posted that I'll be in hospital all day on the first round deadline) and feeling generally sh!tty about 50% of the time.

I hope some of the clientele of this thread take part, used to be just us lot that were interested anyway!


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## Jason Green (Oct 25, 2016)

I might try the substep competition that sounds fun. I've never really timed splits much.


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## mark49152 (Oct 26, 2016)

Yeah splits are useful and the substep comp was fun, I recommend it. Not sure if I will enter myself, as I don't practise 3x3 these days, but if I get a coffee break to myself I might...


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## Logiqx (Oct 26, 2016)

@pglewis + @pipkiksass + whoever else doesn't know full OLL yet.

*OLL*

I think it is good to know full OLL by the time you are globally sub-20. Depending on how keen you are to learn OLL it makes sense to start learning anytime between sub-30 and sub-25. It's also the right time when you are recognising specific cases and feel you should know specific algorithms for them. The Collin Burns references are somewhat bogus because there is a significant difference between 2-looks and 2-algs. The reality is that he'd have been recognising the OLL cases and executing his algs without pausing. This is essentially a sub-optimal 1-look alg but still a lot faster than 2-looks.

I would recommend learning the dot cases early as they are very useful. They are easy to recognise, easy to learn and save a lot of moves. You'll eventually try to avoid them in speed solves by using sledgehammer insertions but they'll still crop up from time to time.

Mark's document is useful in determining which cases save you the most moves but "looks" are also significant. I would recommend learning "shapes" as complete sets so if you are going to learn the small lightning bolts (for example) then learn all of them in a shortish time period. If you are going to spend time recognising a case during a speed solve then you don't want to realise it's one of the cases where you don't actually know the algorithm. The OLL's with Sune / Anti-Sune corners are good candidates for being learnt as some of your first groups.

My final tip for OLL is to learn "good" algorithms from the outset. I've probably replaced 20-25% of my OLLs over time and it can be harder than expected to swap out one alg and replace it with a new one. You can view my current algs and the ones I've replaced via my signature.

*Practice*

I've not done nearly so much targeted practice as Mark who's done a lot more blind cross, cross+1, PLL time attacks, etc.

However, I believe it is important to focus on all aspects of your solve and IMO it is a good thing to always be learning new things for all steps. Improving your cross (e.g. well planned / executed), F2L (efficiency / lookahead), OLL (new algs) and PLL (recognition) at the same time is a good approach IMO.

*Edge Control*

Sledgehammer is useful to any solver (regardless of speed) and regardless of what algs they know because it is a simple way to avoid the dot cases. Intuitive edge control and VHLS are appealing to people who don't know full OLL but once you know full OLL they offer little benefit IMO. It's better to just solve the last pair as quickly as possible and then solve the resultant OLL.

However... intuitive edge control + VHLS become extremely useful once you know a good number of COLL or ZBLL cases. I probably use 4-6 move EOLS algs during 1/6 of my slow solves (1/12 during speed solves as I'm not always spotting the opportunities) as they will lead to Sune + PLL or COLL + EPLL. COLL + EPLL is especially awesome as it's almost always faster than OLL + PLL and has a 1/12 chance of a EPLL skip.


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## pipkiksass (Oct 26, 2016)

Logiqx said:


> You can view my current algs and the ones I've replaced via my signature...



I already have your OLL page open at the top of my browser - it's been a permanent feature there since I resumed cubing. Thanks for taking the time to do it, it's a massive boon to the lazier among us, and I'm stuck at home for the next 3 months without a printer to produce the old DIY alg sheets (remember them?). I also don't have a laminator, so they'd be coffee-stained before long anyway!

I do find that I will occasionally spot a dot OLL coming, or can force some EO, but knowing only probably 30 OLLs I often force one I don't know, meaning I still need an edge flip and OCLL, which means a massively inefficient process of:

spot impending dot case
mentally adjust from 'natural' insertion to sledgehammer (or, worse, make pair in top layer, AUF, sledgehammer)
2-look alg to flip remaining edges (OELL)
sort corners (OCLL)
The sooner I know full OLL, the better, imho!!!

I'm in the process of learning small Ls. Turns out I already knew some of them, but was using 2-look because the algs had gone from my brain. Re-learning is significantly easier than learning, my fingers seem to know what to do, even if my brain doesn't. Good old muscle memory!

Did an Ao50 this morning, and noticed my sig PB Ao100 was 20.xx because I NEVER used to do Ao100s. So I did another 50 solves, and the session average came in bang on 20 seconds:

Generated By csTimer on 2016-10-26
solves/total: 100/100

single
best: 12.98
worst: 28.27

mean of 3
current: 19.90 (σ = 4.07)
best: 15.96 (σ = 2.80)

avg of 5
current: 19.34 (σ = 2.80)
best: 17.91 (σ = 0.71)

avg of 12
current: 19.71 (σ = 2.63)
best: 19.25 (σ = 1.51)

avg of 50
current: 19.76 (σ = 2.17)
best: 19.72 (σ = 1.95)

avg of 100
current: 20.00 (σ = 2.02)
best: 20.00 (σ = 2.02)

Average: 20.00 (σ = 2.02)
Mean: 20.08



Spoiler



Time List:
1. 20.60 D B' D R F2 L B L R2 B2 D2 B L2 B' L2 F' U2 R2 D' 
2. 18.87 L B' L2 F2 L U2 F2 D' R2 B2 R2 F2 D2 F' R2 L2 B U2 R' 
3. 20.01 F' L D2 B D2 F' D2 R2 D' L F2 R2 F2 U L2 F2 U' F2 R2 U2 
4. 20.54 R' B' U2 B' R2 B U2 B' D2 F D2 U B2 L F2 L' U B' D' U2 
5. 19.74 F2 L2 D' L2 B2 D' B2 U' L2 B2 D2 B' F2 U' F' R' B' F2 U2 B 
6. 18.22 D' F2 L' B' L' B' D' R' F L2 D L2 D' F2 U' B2 R2 D' L2 B2 
7. 22.46 L2 R' U2 R' F2 L D2 B2 L2 U2 D B2 L U F L2 R B R' B2 
8. 20.13 R2 B R2 F2 R2 F L2 U2 L2 R2 D' R D U' R' D' L' B' F R 
9. 21.94 L2 F2 L2 D B2 U B2 U L2 U L2 B' D U2 F2 R2 F' U R D' 
10. 24.60 F2 D2 L2 U' F2 R2 U2 L2 D' R2 B2 R U R' B2 L2 R2 B' D' 
11. 19.63 F U2 F R2 B2 D2 R2 U2 R2 F' D' L' B' F' D' U' L2 F L' U 
12. 18.76 D2 B2 F2 L2 U B2 D2 B2 U R2 U' R' B D' U2 L F' R2 B' F' 
13. 20.90 D2 B D' F U' R U2 R2 F L U2 F L2 B' U2 D2 F' L2 F2 B' 
14. 17.78 R U2 R' D2 U2 F2 R' F2 U2 L F' L' B R B' L' U' R2 F2 D2 
15. 18.69 R U L2 D' L2 D' L2 U R2 D R2 F2 B' R2 D' B U' F' R B2 F' 
16. 18.19 L B2 D R F' B' D' R2 F' R B2 R' U2 F2 R' F2 L' F2 D2 
17. 21.47 U R2 D2 B2 R2 D' R2 U B2 D L D F' L' U F' L U L' D2 
18. 22.13 D' L2 D' F2 L2 D' R2 F2 U B2 F2 R F' D' B' R U2 B2 F R B2 
19. 19.32 F2 D2 R2 D2 L D2 R' D2 R D2 F2 D F2 U B R F' L U R2 
20. 19.90 B F R2 D2 F' R2 D2 L2 R2 F L2 R' B' F' D' L D B F U' L 
21. 18.60 U2 R2 B2 D' F2 U L2 U' B2 R2 B D' B' R' B2 U R2 F U R' 
22. 28.27 L2 D2 R2 D R2 D B2 R2 F2 L2 D2 F' U' L R' D' R2 D U' R2 D' 
23. 20.66 D L2 D' L2 U2 F2 R2 F2 L2 R2 U' F' R' U2 F2 L2 B D' B' F R' 
24. 20.06 D2 F2 D2 B2 U' B2 R2 D2 R2 D R B' U' B2 L2 U R' U B' 
25. 23.81 U L2 B R' B' U' B' L' B2 D L2 D F2 D R2 D2 L2 U2 B 
26. 18.62 U' B2 L U R' B' D2 L' F' D L F2 D2 L' D2 R F2 R2 F2 R2 
27. 17.12 U F2 R2 D2 B' R2 F' L2 D2 L2 R2 U R2 U B U' L D2 R2 D2 
28. 18.66 R U' L' F2 R' B' D2 L' F' R D2 L' U2 D2 L B2 R D2 L 
29. 22.61 R B2 D2 L' B D B' U' F L' R2 F U2 R2 F' L2 D2 R2 F 
30. 19.39 F L' U' D2 F' L D' B2 R D F2 R2 U2 F2 U2 R2 B' L2 F B 
31. 18.05 U2 F R2 B' L2 F' L2 U2 F' R2 F' R F' D L F2 R' D' B D2 F2 
32. 16.77 F2 U' F2 L2 D2 U' B2 R2 D2 B2 L2 B' R' F D' B L F2 L' D R' 
33. 20.49 F B2 D2 L F2 D' F U2 B' R' U F2 D2 F2 U L2 D F2 U' R2 U 
34. 22.65 L' B2 L2 D2 F2 L' D2 R' D2 F2 D2 F' U' L B' R B2 U' B2 L' 
35. 24.57 B' L' R' U2 F2 R2 F2 R' B2 R' B2 D R U2 R B' L' R' B' U2 
36. 21.58 D' L2 F2 U' F2 U2 F2 R2 U B2 L D2 R F' R U' L D2 B2 R 
37. 25.37 U R2 D2 U' B2 R2 U F2 R2 D L2 F L' B' L' R D' B' F2 D2 B2 
38. 19.07 B2 U2 L2 R2 D' B2 R2 U L2 U2 B' L U2 R D2 U' B' R2 U B2 
39. 20.32 B2 L D2 B L U' L2 D' L' F' U R2 B2 U2 B2 U B2 D' L2 F2 
40. 17.52 L U' B D R U B2 U2 D R F2 R' F2 L' D2 R2 D2 F2 U2 R' 
41. 20.07 U' F2 L' D2 B2 L2 D2 L U2 L' F2 D2 B F2 D R' F U R' B L2 
42. 18.59 U' F2 L' U R D F' D' B U' L2 B2 R2 U2 F' U2 F R2 L2 B2 U2 
43. 17.94 R2 B' U' R F' B L2 F2 U B D' R2 U B2 U' R2 F2 L2 F2 U 
44. 17.18 L2 F2 U' L2 F2 U2 L2 R2 U' F2 D R F D2 R B' U' R' F L 
45. 22.96 F2 L' D' L' F U2 R B2 D R D2 R2 U2 R2 F2 B' U2 F2 D2 F' R2 
46. 17.13 R F L2 D F2 D2 L' B R D' R' B2 D2 R F2 D2 L B2 L F2 
47. 18.80 U' R2 D2 R2 U' F2 L2 B2 U L2 D B' U' L U B L2 D2 F' L' 
48. 22.59 D2 R' B2 L' U2 R D2 L F2 L2 F2 B' U2 L R' B' L' D' L2 B 
49. 23.15 R' F' R2 B' F2 D2 F' R2 D2 R2 F2 R' B' U B' D' L2 U R2 B2 
50. 19.21 L' B2 L' D2 F U' L2 F D R D R2 D' R2 B2 U2 D R2 F2 U' 
51. 20.16 U2 F R L B L2 F2 L2 U' L2 F' B' D2 F D2 R2 B R2 D2 L2 
52. 19.52 F2 B2 U' R D' F' D R2 D R2 L B2 D2 B2 R F2 D2 R' U2 L 
53. 16.45 B2 L2 D F2 D2 F2 U R2 D B2 D L' D U' F2 R B' L2 R D R' 
54. 18.54 D2 L2 D R2 D F2 R2 D2 L2 D U2 F U' B' F2 R' D L2 F U' F' 
55. 20.19 F' R F2 U2 R U2 R2 D2 F2 R B2 R2 D' B' U' R' D2 L2 D2 B D 
56. 22.63 L2 F2 D' B2 F2 U' L2 U2 L2 R2 U' B' R2 U B R U L U2 R' B 
57. 16.07 D2 F R2 F D2 F' L2 F D R' B2 R2 U R F R' F' U 
58. 17.60 U' F' R2 U2 L2 B2 D2 B' D2 L D' B' F' R2 F2 L' R' F 
59. 18.58 L D2 F2 R F L B' R U2 L U L2 B2 R2 U' F2 U' D2 R2 U2 
60. 21.62 D' B2 L2 F2 U' B2 U2 L2 R2 B2 U L B2 D U L' B R2 D F R2 
61. 20.57 L2 R2 U F2 R2 B2 R2 F2 U2 L2 U F R F U2 B R' F' R2 F' U' 
62. 21.98 D' R F' D2 R2 L2 B' U B' R2 B L2 B U2 F L2 D2 F2 R2 L 
63. 23.33 F' U2 R2 U2 R2 B' U2 L2 B' D2 R2 L U' F' D' L2 R' F2 R' F2 
64. 17.50 D2 L F D' R U2 F' B R2 F U2 B2 U' R2 B2 U' B2 U' F2 R2 D2 
65. 20.32 U R2 F2 U L2 D' R2 D L2 U B' U' L2 F' U' R2 B L F' L2 
66. 19.11 U D2 F2 L' B U' L D B' U2 B2 D L2 F2 L2 D2 R2 F2 D R2 
67. 19.20 D B2 U2 L2 R2 U R2 B2 R2 D' F2 R' D' U' L D' F U2 B' L D' 
68. 20.63 B2 U L2 D' F2 R2 D' L2 B F' R U B' D U' F L2 D' U2 
69. 21.11 L2 U B2 D2 L2 U' B2 L2 B2 F2 U F R2 U2 R' U2 B D R' B2 L 
70. 19.34 F2 L F' R2 U D2 F D R' B2 U' L2 D' L2 D' F2 U2 D 
71. 18.65 D2 B' R2 L' D L F B2 L F2 U2 F2 U' D2 F2 U' L2 U' L2 F2 
72. 20.59 L2 D B' R' B2 D2 R B D2 F2 L2 D2 L2 D2 L U2 R B2 L' F' 
73. 16.52 B2 F2 U2 R D2 R F2 L U2 B2 D2 F' L F2 D2 F2 D F' D B U' 
74. 15.43 L2 F2 R' U2 F2 R F' U L' U2 F' D2 L2 U2 R2 B R2 U2 L 
75. 27.73 U2 L2 R2 D' R2 U2 L2 B2 U B2 F' U' L R2 F2 U L' B R B' 
76. 20.99 U' F2 D' R2 U F2 L2 U' F2 L2 F2 R F U B' D R U2 F2 R 
77. 25.20 F R2 B2 D' L2 R2 U' L2 F2 U2 B2 U2 L' D' U' R' B U' R' D2 R' 
78. 22.33 F2 U' R2 U F2 D R2 U B2 F2 D2 R F R2 U B F' L F' R' B2 
79. 18.53 F2 D2 U2 L D2 L2 U2 R2 B2 D2 F2 B U2 R F' L U' B L2 D2 R 
80. 16.36 F2 R' U2 L2 D2 F2 U2 L D2 B D B' U B2 U' R B R' F' 
81. 12.98 R2 U2 R2 U2 B2 F' R2 D2 F2 U2 D F U L B2 L2 B' D2 U' L2 
82. 21.11 L2 B2 L' B2 R2 F2 R D2 U2 R F2 U' L F' L2 B U' B U R 
83. 22.34 B D2 L D2 U2 F2 R' B2 L D2 B2 R U B F2 D' U2 R F2 L2 F 
84. 25.62 B2 R2 B2 U' L' D' F2 R U2 B2 L2 F' R2 F' L2 B' L2 B' L 
85. 18.52 L B' U2 R2 B2 U2 R2 B' R2 U' F R' B R' F L' B2 U' 
86. 21.23 D2 L F2 R D2 R U2 L' B2 R2 U B D' F' U' R' D' B' F' L 
87. 18.07 F2 D B L F B2 L2 B U' R' U' R2 U B2 D' L2 U B2 D' R2 U 
88. 18.47 D L2 B' L D L2 B' D2 L R2 D2 R2 D L2 D R2 U' L2 B2 D2 
89. 23.56 D2 U B2 F2 R2 D B2 D' F2 R2 B2 F L D' R' D B' D' U B' F 
90. 21.36 D L D2 B R' B2 D' F R F2 B L2 F D2 R2 L2 B U2 B2 L2 
91. 15.21 F' D' B L' U R' L B2 U' F' R2 B' R2 D2 F R2 L2 B D2 F 
92. 22.26 F2 R2 D2 F U2 B' U2 B2 D2 F' U F L' R B D2 F R B2 U' 
93. 20.26 B R2 D' B2 D B2 U2 R2 U' B2 R2 U2 F U R' D F2 U F2 D' B2 
94. 17.62 L F2 U2 L2 F U2 R2 F2 R2 B' D2 F R' D' U' F R' D' F D L 
95. 18.22 R L2 D2 F2 D' B2 U L2 F2 D2 L2 U' R D B2 R2 B U L2 D R2 
96. 21.76 B' U2 L2 U2 B U2 L2 U2 R2 U2 L' B' R2 F2 L2 B' D' B R2 F2 
97. 16.27 F2 D2 R2 B' L2 U2 F' L2 B' R2 F L' B2 F2 D' F R2 U' F L F 
98. 23.93 L2 B2 L2 U2 L' D2 R D2 F2 D2 F' R' F U R U2 B' D B' F 
99. 19.99 B2 R2 B2 U L2 U' R2 F2 D2 L2 U' R B' U2 F2 U L B2 U' B' F2 
100. 15.78 U' F2 D2 R2 U L2 D' F2 D2 L2 F' R2 D' B2 D' L2 F' R D'



I've already started to find I can screw up a solve badly, and still pull it in around 23-24 seconds. 

12.xx - 1 (OLL skip)
15.xx - 3
16.xx - 6
17.xx - 9
18.xx - 19
19.xx - 12
20.xx - 18
21.xx - 10
22.xx - 10
23.xx - 5
24.xx - 2
25.xx - 3

etc...

Key part is exactly 50/100 were sub 20 and session time was 20.00 seconds. Couldn't physically be more on the brink of sub-20!


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## Logiqx (Oct 26, 2016)

pipkiksass said:


> I already have your OLL page open at the top of my browser - it's been a permanent feature there since I resumed cubing. Thanks for taking the time to do it, it's a massive boon to the lazier among us, and I'm stuck at home for the next 3 months without a printer to produce the old DIY alg sheets (remember them?). I also don't have a laminator, so they'd be coffee-stained before long anyway!
> 
> I do find that I will occasionally spot a dot OLL coming, or can force some EO, but knowing only probably 30 OLLs I often force one I don't know, meaning I still need an edge flip and OCLL, which means a massively inefficient process of:
> 
> ...


Cool. It's nice to know the page is being used by someone. 

I remember the DIY sheets well.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk


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## pglewis (Oct 26, 2016)

Logiqx said:


> I would recommend learning the dot cases early as they are very useful. They are easy to recognise, easy to learn and save a lot of moves. You'll eventually try to avoid them in speed solves by using sledgehammer insertions but they'll still crop up from time to time.



Honestly I've already totally forgotten the dot case even for 2-look OLL because I sledge the last pair if needed. When I remember to look. Plus the downsides @pipkiksass brings up. I'd planned to pretty much ignore dot cases for a while but recent input from y'all suggests that's not a great plan after all. 



Logiqx said:


> My final tip for OLL is to learn "good" algorithms from the outset. I've probably replaced 20-25% of my OLLs over time and it can be harder than expected to swap out one alg and replace it with a new one. You can view my current algs and the ones I've replaced via my signature.



Yeah, last night I was finally creating a full skeleton spreadsheet for my personal OLLs and I had tabs open with your list, the wiki, cubefreak's, Chris Olsons's, Mark's PDF, and algdb. If I can't pick a good one out of those I figure I'm SOL. I'm mostly looking at incorporating rotated OCLLs at the moment but I probably ended up replacing 2 of my main OCLLs in the process of scrutinizing. It's not a bad time for me to do this refinement; F2L look-ahead has been a seriously slower process of absorption for me than new algs. That's half of why I find myself poking around more at OLL in the first place: my OLL is bored waiting for F2L to come around. 

From the n00b perspective, some of the initial poor alg choices were made due to execution limitations. At the very beginning I avoided all algs with wide turns because that was too weird. B moves took longer to drop my moratorium because they were awkward. And I just developed a usable M slice in the past few weeks, previously my execution involved clumsily having the cube squeeze out of my hands and about 4 inches into the air, having to catch it about 20% of the time... talk about your re-grips lol. I'm far from considering Rouxing just yet but I suddenly find myself wanting to M-slice All The Things now.



Logiqx said:


> However, I believe it is important to focus on all aspects of your solve and IMO it is a good thing to always be learning new things for all steps. Improving your cross (e.g. well planned / executed), F2L (efficiency / lookahead), OLL (new algs) and PLL (recognition) at the same time is a good approach IMO.



This is a daunting area for me. I'm isolating F2L because it's the main drag on my times by a good margin, look-ahead in particular. I'm going through all cases with a fine-toothed comb for the same reason you suggest learning good OLL algs: I don't want to keep step-wise refining my F2L in stages like I have been, repeatedly building and breaking habits. There will still be tricks to pick up when I'm done with this round but for the most part I want this to be my last deep-dive on F2L (until I get serious about OH lol). 

The daunting part is I fully understand that F2L look-ahead doesn't happen in a vacuum and should really start during inspection... at the very least before I've inserted the last cross edge. I'm not treating a solve in a proper holistic manner yet. It's difficult to try to absorb the nuances of transitions when there is still so much thinking time going on with my individual F2L pairs. This might just be a case where my book learning is still well ahead of my abilities. I'm trying to get into the 20s, not out of them. 



Logiqx said:


> Sledgehammer is useful to any solver (regardless of speed) and regardless of what algs they know because it is a simple way to avoid the dot cases.



Sledge and hedge are my best friends at the moment and last pair edge control is the least use I get from them. I've probably incorporated a half-dozen special case uses during my current F2L boot-camp and I'm working on being comfortable/automatic with both sledge and hedge from any angle for any slot.


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## Jason Green (Oct 27, 2016)

I started full OLL about 35-40 seconds I think. Do you remember @MarcelP? I think you were the one that told me to go for it. 

I still use NO sledgehammer or hedge in my solves. Guess that's an obvious thing to work on. I was going to start learning COLL but I think I will also review some of my OLL algs, you guys have inspired me. I pretty much used what was on badmephisto's cheat sheets except N perm now. Funny because I miss the days learning OLL, it was exciting when I got one down and got to move on, but at the same time I've been very hesitant to start learning more. I guess I just still feel lookahead is my biggest issue, even being mostly sub 20 now.


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## pglewis (Oct 27, 2016)

Jason Green said:


> I still use NO sledgehammer or hedge in my solves. Guess that's an obvious thing to work on.



This is one of my new faves. Corner in place and aligned, edge in the U layer. Same number of moves as my LBL alg from 34 years ago but faster to align and execute for me. 

Then this one I got from @Logiqx, I think. "Triple sexy" case alignment but with the destination slot adjacent in the BR. Lefty version works for adjacent in the BL, of course. 

And finally this one, which is a candidate for replacing triple sexy for me. Setup is with the slot in the FL. I'm also finding myself fond of the wide move hedgeslammer variants like this.


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## Jason Green (Oct 27, 2016)

I finally put up my unboxing video from forever ago. Plenty of distractions from my kids for variety. 






Thanks @pglewis for those algs, I especially like the first two!


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## h2f (Oct 27, 2016)

pglewis said:


> This is one of my new faves. Corner in place and aligned, edge in the U layer. Same number of moves as my LBL alg from 34 years ago but faster to align and execute for me.



Nice alg - I didnt know it and this one helps me a lot. 



Jason Green said:


> I finally put up my unboxing video from forever ago. Plenty of distractions from my kids for variety.



I like when your kids are around. You are very patient man.


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## David Zemdegs (Oct 27, 2016)

I am 56 and about to compete in my first competition. My son will be there. I hope he's not bored.


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## muchacho (Oct 27, 2016)

Cool! How many competitions have you been on without competing? Have you learned from the best?


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## Logiqx (Oct 27, 2016)

David Zemdegs said:


> I am 56 and about to compete in my first competition. My son will be there. I hope he's not bored.


Welcome to the thread.

Have fun competing!

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk


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## newtonbase (Oct 27, 2016)

David Zemdegs said:


> I am 56 and about to compete in my first competition. My son will be there. I hope he's not bored.


Good luck. Is it just 3x3 you are doing?


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## Logiqx (Oct 27, 2016)

@Jason Green - Over 40's page updated


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## Selkie (Oct 27, 2016)

Well every now and then life gets in the way of cubing. Highly unfortunate it has coincided with the build up to UK Championships in a weeks time but just have to do the best I can. Apologies for not being active on the thread this last month. Soooo much activity from my fellow brethren and I will read all the posts back when I can. I haven't been practicing as much as I should have been but still been practicing as much s I can. I guess its time to set some goals for UK Champs, attainable or not! 

Single/Average
3x3: Sub 14 / Sub 15.24 (Not as random an average goal as you might think!)
4x4: Sub 1:00 / Sub 1:05
5x5: Sub 2:00 / Sub 2:10
Megaminx: Sub 2:00 / Sub 2:10
Clock: Sub 13 / Sub 15
Others: Not too worried.

Not sure how many other older UKers are going to UKC, or would it be easier to ask how many aren't?!

@David Zemdegs - Taught my son to solve, he just wasn't as interested, had to reteach him and still he forgot. I suspect you won't have that particular issue yourself  Best of luck in comp, great to see another older competitor even though you have been around in the community for years, and don't forget to come back and let us know how you get on.


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## muchacho (Oct 27, 2016)

I know what that 15.24 is, because it's one of my long term goals, good luck!


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## pipkiksass (Oct 27, 2016)

Jason Green said:


> I finally put up my unboxing video from forever ago. Plenty of distractions from my kids for variety.


Best. Unboxing. EVER!

Your kids are awesome. I instasubscribed to your channel, you should do all unboxings like this. The older one showing off his Target Rubik's brand cube was a highlight for me, as was the bit when he's talking about "smiley face for the video" while you're talking about the Weipo. Definitely got a 'smiley face' from me.

Just awesome, love love love this video - I'm having a really tough time of life at the moment and this left me with a massive grin on my face! Thanks very much.


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## mark49152 (Oct 27, 2016)

Yeah @Jason Green that is a nice video and brightened my morning too .


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## MarcelP (Oct 27, 2016)

Jason Green said:


> I started full OLL about 35-40 seconds I think. Do you remember @MarcelP? I think you were the one that told me to go for it.



Yeah, The sooner you learn full OLL, the sooner you will be able to perform them without pausing (recognition) and the sooner you will have them in musscle-memory.  Learning new algs for me was really hard. I took a whole year for OLL. But I also started at 40 secs.


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## MarcelP (Oct 27, 2016)

Selkie said:


> Single/Average
> 3x3: Sub 14 / Sub 15.24 (Not as random an average goal as you might think!)





muchacho said:


> I know what that 15.24 is, because it's one of my long term goals, good luck!



Now I am curious!!



mark49152 said:


> Yeah @Jason Green that is a nice video and brightened my morning too .


I am at work, but can't wait to watch it at home tonight.


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## One Wheel (Oct 27, 2016)

You guys are coming pretty close to convincing me to learn full OLL. I'm running low 30s mostly with maybe half a dozen or so OLLs that are not in the 2-look set. But I also want to learn CO-EP for megaminx, and I just got a Square-1 that I need an alg sheet to solve.


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## muchacho (Oct 27, 2016)

MarcelP said:


> Now I am curious!!


It's Gilles Roux's best over-40 official average, which is second best for an over-40 (Selkie is already third). I want to beat that because I'm using Roux... I'd like to beat Gilles's 13.03, but that may be way too far to even dream about it.


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## mark49152 (Oct 27, 2016)

MarcelP said:


> Now I am curious!!


My guess - it's Gilles Roux's official PB? Whoever beats it will go 2nd to Ron in the oldies rankings. 



One Wheel said:


> You guys are coming pretty close to convincing me to learn full OLL.


I made the point in my OLL guide that it's not all or nothing. Different OLL subsets have different levels of benefit. Definitely the top third are a no-brainer and can save lots of time. The next third are worthwhile IMHO. The bottom third are less worthwhile as the algs are typically worse yet they have fast 2-look solutions that pretty much become a single alg once you get used to them anyway.


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## Jason Green (Oct 27, 2016)

Thanks everyone for the great feedback on my video! Maybe I'll insist the kids help from now on. 


David Zemdegs said:


> I am 56 and about to compete in my first competition. My son will be there. I hope he's not bored.


Awesome to have you stop by here and good luck!!


Logiqx said:


> @Jason Green - Over 40's page updated


Thank you, be excited to see that! I've been debating whether to title my YouTube video fastest US over 40 average.  I probably won't as I'm afraid there are some oldies not in our list. Thoughts?


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## muchacho (Oct 27, 2016)

I'm guessing Javier Tirado is most probably over 40. Maybe @moralsh knows?

https://www.worldcubeassociation.org/results/p.php?i=2009TIRA01

He is quite fast at clock (Spanish NR holder, and WR some years ago).


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## Jason Green (Oct 27, 2016)

muchacho said:


> I'm guessing Javier Tirado is most probably over 40. Maybe @moralsh knows?
> 
> https://www.worldcubeassociation.org/results/p.php?i=2009TIRA01
> 
> He is quite fast at clock (Spanish NR holder, and WR some years ago).


He's not US so that would be OK.


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## muchacho (Oct 27, 2016)

There are more cubers in the US than in Spain, so it's probably that there are like 5 fast unknown oldies there


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## Jason Green (Oct 27, 2016)

muchacho said:


> There are more cubers in the US than in Spain, so it's probably that there are like 5 fast unknown oldies there


That's what I was thinking. Maybe if I title my video that and put a link to the list it will draw them out to get added to the list.


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## Selkie (Oct 27, 2016)

@muchacho , @MarcelP , @mark49152 - Yes indeed Roux's comp PB average.

Been doing a lot of 3x3 today. Don't appear to have lost much time Sub 15.5 Ao250. Trying to get a sub 14.5 Ao12 on film but the solves are a little camera shy today 

@Jason Green - Yeah great unboxing and definitely includes your lads in future ones, so much different than the norm and better for it


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## pipkiksass (Oct 27, 2016)

Ok, so when I came back to cubing I quickly realised I'd forgotten my J(a) PLL alg. A quick look on the wiki and I found the one that most folk use, although my old one was RUD only, as I hate L turns, they're very awkward for me.

Anyway, given what has been said on this thread recently about getting good algs from the start, I thought I'd try everything on the wiki, and found this absolute gem of an alg. You can all thank me later! 

(y) R2 (U' D) R2' U' R2 U R2' D' R2 U R2'


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Logiqx (Oct 27, 2016)

Jason Green said:


> Thank you, be excited to see that! I've been debating whether to title my YouTube video fastest US over 40 average.  I probably won't as I'm afraid there are some oldies not in our list. Thoughts?



Just over 60,000 people have competed at 3x3 so if we assume that 2% of them are oldies that's 1,200 people.

2% is a crude guess based on the number of 3x3 competitors in the UK (628) and saying that ~12 of them are over 40. The actual percentage is likely to be higher imo.

There are only 47 people on the current list so I am sure that over 95% of the oldies are missing.

Edit: Rough gauge of the percentage of over-40's on this forum - #145


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## Logiqx (Oct 27, 2016)

@Jason Green - "sub-20 @ sup-40"


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## mark49152 (Oct 27, 2016)

pipkiksass said:


> (y) R2 (U' D) R2' U' R2 U R2' D' R2 U R2'


D' R U' R U R' D R D' R' U' R2 D R2

All U/D moves with left hand. RUD FTW!


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## moralsh (Oct 27, 2016)

muchacho said:


> I'm guessing Javier Tirado is most probably over 40. Maybe @moralsh knows?
> 
> https://www.worldcubeassociation.org/results/p.php?i=2009TIRA01
> 
> He is quite fast at clock (Spanish NR holder, and WR some years ago).



Yeah, Javier is faster than me at almost everything and he was also the seventh in the world to join the platinium club (all events and averages plus WR, CR and championship podiums) he's almost 2 years my senior so he qualifies.

Luis Iáñez (cubecomps and WCA board) also has faster 3x single and average and is good at Pyra, FM and SQ1, then we have Javier Cabezuelo (world class at FM) and Jesús Masanet (good at clock), there's a bunch of other oldies around who go to comps but they're not that into it. But the ones I've mentioned still get some podiums.

Edit: Looking at our medal ranking (http://www.asociacionrubik.es/medallero) I have missed Diego Millán Otón who got a bunch of podiums in blind events although I haven't seen him around for a couple of years. And Ernesto Fernández Regueira, who is already in the list.


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## muchacho (Oct 27, 2016)

In your country how many Nemesis (cubers that are better than you in every official event) do you have?
https://whispering-headland-44417.herokuapp.com/

In my case, 62... 971 in Europe and 2707 in the World (I expected those numbers to be much higher).



Spoiler



Web tool found here:
http://www.rubikaz.com/foro/viewtopic.php?p=200677#p200677


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## Selkie (Oct 27, 2016)

muchacho said:


> In your country how many Nemesis (cubers that are better than you in every official event) do you have?
> https://whispering-headland-44417.herokuapp.com/
> 
> In my case, 62... 971 in Europe and 2707 in the World (I expected those numbers to be much higher).
> ...



Really thought there would be more than that to be fair.

Really fun site I have to say 

11 Country, 102 Continent, 228 World


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## pglewis (Oct 27, 2016)

pipkiksass said:


> Ok, so when I came back to cubing I quickly realised I'd forgotten my J(a) PLL alg. A quick look on the wiki and I found the one that most folk use, although my old one was RUD only, as I hate L turns, they're very awkward for me.
> 
> Anyway, given what has been said on this thread recently about getting good algs from the start, I thought I'd try everything on the wiki, and found this absolute gem of an alg. You can all thank me later!
> 
> (y) R2 (U' D) R2' U' R2 U R2' D' R2 U R2'





mark49152 said:


> D' R U' R U R' D R D' R' U' R2 D R2
> 
> All U/D moves with left hand. RUD FTW!



I'll throw this hat in the ring: (y) R' U L' U2 R U' R' U2 R L


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## mafergut (Oct 27, 2016)

Nice discussion about hidden oldies that do not show up on the over 40 stats, nemesis and all that. I'm sorry that I still cannot be on that list due to not having ever competed. Will try to fix that next year.

By the way, 2nd best 3x3 Ao5 ever and 2nd sub-16 too:

*avg of 5: 15.75*
1. (15.26) D2 B' L2 D2 F' L2 F' U F U' L2 B2 D' F D R' F
2. (20.98) R2 B' R2 B' F2 R2 B' D2 F U2 F R' F L' U' L B' R2 B2 R2 D
3. 15.85 L D2 B' L B' R F B U' R2 D F2 R2 U F2 U F2 D' R
4. 15.96 U2 B2 U L2 F2 U' L2 R2 U B2 D2 B' L' R' U' F R' B' L2 F' U'
5. 15.41 F' R2 D2 L' D' L2 B' D' R U2 B2 L' F2 L' U2 D2 B2 U2 L D


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## One Wheel (Oct 27, 2016)

muchacho said:


> In your country how many Nemesis (cubers that are better than you in every official event) do you have?
> https://whispering-headland-44417.herokuapp.com/
> 
> In my case, 62... 971 in Europe and 2707 in the World (I expected those numbers to be much higher).
> ...



That looks really interesting, but when I put in my WCA ID it says "Person with WCA id 2016BAIR04 not found!" and the ID is a working link to my WCA profile.


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## muchacho (Oct 27, 2016)

Probably the tool has not been updated recently.


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## mark49152 (Oct 27, 2016)

muchacho said:


> In your country how many Nemesis (cubers that are better than you in every official event) do you have?
> https://whispering-headland-44417.herokuapp.com/


That's cool. Four national - the guys who are above me in the UK BLD rankings. 41 continental, and when I try world, the app crashes 

Edit: 76 world. Thought it would be more. That just shows how strong Europe is at BLD.


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## pglewis (Oct 27, 2016)

One Wheel said:


> That looks really interesting, but when I put in my WCA ID it says "Person with WCA id 2016BAIR04 not found!" and the ID is a working link to my WCA profile.



Same here, they must be using a snap-shot of the data.


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## moralsh (Oct 27, 2016)

That's seriously outdated, I remember when Cisco did it some months ago, I´ll try to either tell him to update or do something similar.

I had 0 National nemesis (big blind helps a lot) , about 15 european and about 40 world last time I checked.


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## Jason Green (Oct 27, 2016)

Is that better than you in every event you do I guess?


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## muchacho (Oct 27, 2016)

Yes.


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## pipkiksass (Oct 27, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> Different OLL subsets have different levels of benefit. Definitely the top third are a no-brainer and can save lots of time. The next third are worthwhile IMHO. The bottom third are less worthwhile as the algs are typically worse yet they have fast 2-look solutions that pretty much become a single alg once you get used to them anyway.


I've been using the same logic as I did with PLL some 3 years ago - in my average yesterday I had loads of L shape OLLs that I didn't know, and I find the biggest incentive to learning something new is not knowing it screwing up your averages!!! I now know all 6 small L's, up from 2 yesterday. Turns out they're really nice - and I also remembered one of the dot cases I thought I'd forgotten. Used @Logiqx alg page again, tyvm!


mark49152 said:


> D' R U' R U R' D R D' R' U' R2 D R2
> 
> All U/D moves with left hand. RUD FTW!


Another nice RUD alg. This may well be what I used to use. I do all the U/Ds with my left as well, but I like the (U' D) at the start, which is simultaneous and so feels like you're saving time!


pglewis said:


> I'll throw this hat in the ring: (y) R' U L' U2 R U' R' U2 R L


That's the alg I'd been using for the past fortnight. It's nice if you are capable of doing L turns, but I'm L-phobic and for me an L turn in an alg is like a slap in the face! I feel like I'm regripping before and after, its horrible - my awkward, clumsy hands just fail me.

RUD FTW indeed! If it weren't for ease of learning OLL mirrors, I'd probably never use L turns in LL.


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## pipkiksass (Oct 27, 2016)

P.S. I have infinity nemeses.


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## newtonbase (Oct 27, 2016)

64 UK nemesis despite me being 31st for 3BLD .


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## muchacho (Oct 27, 2016)

pipkiksass said:


> P.S. I have infinity nemeses.


More like just 60000 or so... edit: more like 63320.



newtonbase said:


> 64 UK nemesis despite me being 31st for 3BLD .


So it has not been updated in a long time... I think I'll try to build this tool myself.


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## Berd (Oct 27, 2016)

muchacho said:


> In your country how many Nemesis (cubers that are better than you in every official event) do you have?
> https://whispering-headland-44417.herokuapp.com/
> 
> In my case, 62... 971 in Europe and 2707 in the World (I expected those numbers to be much higher).
> ...


2 - 5 - 14!


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## pglewis (Oct 27, 2016)

pipkiksass said:


> That's the alg I'd been using for the past fortnight. It's nice if you are capable of doing L turns, but I'm L-phobic and for me an L turn in an alg is like a slap in the face! I feel like I'm regripping before and after, its horrible - my awkward, clumsy hands just fail me.



Yeah, everybody is different. As a long time guitarist it's fun watching the totally different ways people play the same things, plus that means I went into speedsolving with a usable left from the outset. Since it's all new to me I've vowed not to give any righty preference unless it poses a regrip issue in context. In practice I do naturally give quite a bit of right preference still as a right-hander. My TPS also is still low enough that I can't fully evaluate how well what I do will scale up. Whatever you're doing is workin' for you, that's for sure .


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## Selkie (Oct 27, 2016)

Not sure why my ranking i so high as I can understand why BLD events would give you a boost but I haven't done any in comp which should have me well down the ranks. I do wonder if they are counting the retired events of Magic and Master magic in their calculations.

@pglewis - Having no left/right bias can be a huge advantage, especially when you get to the stage where you are using alg mirrors etc. I have such a weak left hand. I have retired OH because I do it left handed and can hardly sub 1 minute now. For instance in Megaminx I do most U' with a push of my right hand thumb. Being cube ambidextrous should stand you in good stead Phil


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## muchacho (Oct 27, 2016)

It doesn't matter how good the rest of the World is at BLD if you haven't done BLD, it only takes into account the events you have done, to search who is better than you at those.

If I clone that app I'll try to make it possible to select for which events you want to search nemeses, so maybe include some events that you haven't done yet and maybe not some that you have done but don't care about them anymore.


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## David Zemdegs (Oct 27, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> Good luck. Is it just 3x3 you are doing?


Yes.


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## mark49152 (Oct 27, 2016)

David Zemdegs said:


> Yes.


Just curious, but what made you start competing now? Weren't you tempted before?


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## bubbagrub (Oct 27, 2016)

muchacho said:


> In your country how many Nemesis (cubers that are better than you in every official event) do you have?
> https://whispering-headland-44417.herokuapp.com/
> 
> In my case, 62... 971 in Europe and 2707 in the World (I expected those numbers to be much higher).
> ...



Thanks! I've been thinking of creating something to do this for ages. Now I don't need to. 

I guess it is out of date, but it claims I only have 4 nemeses in the UK (and 47 in the world). I guess having an FMC mean is helpful...


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## moralsh (Oct 27, 2016)

muchacho said:


> It doesn't matter how good the rest of the World is at BLD if you haven't done BLD, it only takes into account the events you have done, to search who is better than you at those.
> 
> If I clone that app I'll try to make it possible to select for which events you want to search nemeses, so maybe include some events that you haven't done yet and maybe not some that you have done but don't care about them anymore.



It does take into account all the events, not just what you competed in. A nemesis is somebody who beats you in all official events.

Your best rank is the highest nemesis count you can have (if all the people better than you at that are better at everything else), if you have an NR you don't have national nemesis, same goes for CR and WR. I have few nemesis because only about 40 people better than me in 5BLD beat me at everithing else, and I'm no nemesis of anybody who does SQ1 or feet, for example.


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## pglewis (Oct 27, 2016)

I haven't been doing timed solves but I vowed today that I was _going_ to bust a 3x3 PB somewhere. Took me a dozen solves before this session to get my timer legs back. That final :53 involved a rare botched A-perm and at least 10 seconds to figure out what I screwed up and straighten out 

I figured it would be the single that fell since my consistency isn't together yet but in a surprise turn it was the ao5 and ao12 that were bested. Just missed a sub 40 ao5 but no biggie, I'm out to take a bigger bite than that. I can nearly see a bunch more mid 30s from here. Couple more weeks, I think.


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## Jason Green (Oct 28, 2016)

moralsh said:


> It does take into account all the events, not just what you competed in. A nemesis is somebody who beats you in all official events.
> 
> Your best rank is the highest nemesis count you can have (if all the people better than you at that are better at everything else), if you have an NR you don't have national nemesis, same goes for CR and WR. I have few nemesis because only about 40 people better than me in 5BLD beat me at everithing else, and I'm no nemesis of anybody who does SQ1 or feet, for example.


I'm sure I'm slow but that seems only someone who has every single event could be anyone's nemesis. Or is it if I do not do feet and someone else does not do feet, that drops out of the equation? If neither of us do it they have not beat me in it, therefore not beat me in all events.


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## h2f (Oct 28, 2016)

muchacho said:


> In your country how many Nemesis (cubers that are better than you in every official event) do you have?
> https://whispering-headland-44417.herokuapp.com/
> 
> In my case, 62... 971 in Europe and 2707 in the World (I expected those numbers to be much higher).
> ...



34-14-0

lol



> No country nemeses found for Grzegorz Pacewicz (2014PACE01)!



I think the reason is very easy - few better blinders havent got a single in 6x6 and are not making skewb: Maskow, Zalewski, Jałocha, Bułatow, Chudecki - these are names of much better cubers than me I can tell without thinking.


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## muchacho (Oct 28, 2016)

Most of my nemeses haven't done every event and they are in most cases not better than me at 5BLD.

The tool (if I can make it work) will let you modify your times, so you can search how many nemeses will you have if for example you improve 1 second at 3x3 or finally get a success at BLD with a 3 minutes time.


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## JohnnyReggae (Oct 28, 2016)

No new cubes for a while and now I've had a bunch in just over a week. A local cubestore http://www.speedcubes.co.za had some new cubes on special so decided to buy a few. Using the local shop I get my order the day after ordering which is always great, better than waiting 3 months for stuff from China to get here. Only downside is it works out more expensive buying local, but for cheaper cubes I don't mind to much.

So in this package I got 5 in total:

QJ Super Floppy 1x3x3
Z-Cube 3x3x3 Sudoku
KungFu YueHun 2x2
QiYi Big Sail 3x3 (6.8cm) 
ShengShou FangYuan 3x3
 

The Super Floppy is an interesting puzzle and obviously harder than a standard 1x1x3. This one is quite loose but I'm not going to mess with any tensions as the last 1x1x3 that I bought broke after a day of having it. Still trying to figure out what I can do with the broken 1x1x3 as a mod.

  

The Sudoku cube is quite hard even though it may seem simple. There are a number of ways that it can be solved, but obviously only 1 correct way. It is a great solve and certainly does test the brain. The cube turns nicely and is quite sturdy. 

 

The Kungfu 2x2 is actually an amazing 2x2 for the price. My only other 2x2 is a Moyu LingPo which I modded to make it turn better and not catch as much, and the Kungfu is even better than it. The corner cutting on the Kungfu is way better than the LingPo and it turns better. The LingPo does feel a bit heavier and the plastic feels nicer, but as I said the price on the Kungfu is amazing. I would recommend the Kungfu to anyone interested in 2x2.

 

The QiYi Big Sail ... well what can I say ... this is also an amazing cube surprisingly. For a big cube it turns nicely, corner cuts well and is a lot of fun to solve. Have done a few ao12's with it and I'm not getting to close to my averages but then again I didn't think I would. I have had a few sub20's on it. I'd love to see what Feliks could do with it  I would also recommend this one to almost everyone, just because it's a bit gimmicky but good gimmicky 

  

Lastly the Shengshou FangYuan. The only reason I decided to get it was because Marcel seemed to like it and did some nice solves with it, also the price is great. I would say that in the budget range of cubes this is possibly the best budget cube around. It turns really nicely and is quite smooth and fast, but is quite loud. It holds it's shape quite nicely and I have managed to get some good times on it. My only problem is that I'm not used to the sticker shades as I usually resticker my cubes as soon as I get them, so my times are not that consistent with it. Again I would recommend this cube to anyone looking for a good budget cube or if you just want another good cube to add to the collection.

 

I'll have to hold off getting more cubes for a bit, the wife may have a meltdown if I order any more soon :-D


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## mafergut (Oct 28, 2016)

@JohnnyReggae I also liked the Big Sail a lot and the KungFu 2x2 (even though my main is still the Weipo). Regarding the FangYuan do you classify it as a budget cube? After Marcel started to use it as his main I though I might get one but then I got the Valk 3 and I don't think the FangYuan is gonna beat it anyway so I didn't order one in the end. Now you say "budget cube" and I don't really know what to think about it.


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## defhacks (Oct 28, 2016)

+1 on the Fangyuan love. I would even go so far as eliminate budget when declaring my love for it. I'm fascinated by how versatile it is, out of the box, it felt a bit like a GTS made from cheaper plastic, but once I setup the tensions and gave it a thorough dose of Traxxas, it feels more like a Tanglong (in the smooth, slow and stable sense) with better corner cutting.

How drastically it reacts to lube yet being usable at both ends of the lube spectrum reminds me of the Thunderclap v1.
It's also an aspect of cubes that I'd love to see discussed more in cube reviews, as I've had widely different experiences with Traxxas on different cubes, from some gumming up almost instantly (Tanglong) to almost ignoring how much lube you dump in them (Meiying).


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## JohnnyReggae (Oct 28, 2016)

mafergut said:


> @JohnnyReggae I also liked the Big Sail a lot and the KungFu 2x2 (even though my main is still the Weipo). Regarding the FangYuan do you classify it as a budget cube? After Marcel started to use it as his main I though I might get one but then I got the Valk 3 and I don't think the FangYuan is gonna beat it anyway so I didn't order one in the end. Now you say "budget cube" and I don't really know what to think about it.


I would class the Shengshou as a budget cube based on the price. At my local cubestore it is cheaper than the Guanlong, but definitely much .. much better than the Guanlong. Don't get me wrong I think the Guanlong is a great cube for the price and is an awesome cube to mod, but the Shengshou is better in all respects. It is not going to compete with the likes of the Valk or GAN IMO. I'd say if you have some spare cash and want a decent cube to add to the collection then get the Shengshou, but if you're looking for a new main then give it a skip.


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## mafergut (Oct 28, 2016)

@defhacks & @JohnnyReggae so different opinions one after the other. Reading Michael's I just want to order one, reading Brent's I want to skip it. You guys do realize this means I need to know by myself so I'll have to buy one, right?


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## JohnnyReggae (Oct 28, 2016)

mafergut said:


> @defhacks & @JohnnyReggae so different opinions one after the other. Reading Michael's I just want to order one, reading Brent's I want to skip it. You guys do realize this means I need to know by myself so I'll have to buy one, right?


Go for it


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## David Zemdegs (Oct 28, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> Just curious, but what made you start competing now? Weren't you tempted before?


Took me time to learn it


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## mafergut (Oct 28, 2016)

Another very nice Ao25. This is probably my first "longish" sub-18 average ever with 17.82. I hope I can continue it into a new PB Ao50 or 100.

It also includes a new PB Ao12: *17.09* (previous was 17.55 so a significant jump):
18.53, 16.74, 17.64, (19.62), 16.81, 16.80, 18.84, (14.43), 16.99, 15.91, 15.44, 17.16


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## sqAree (Oct 28, 2016)

mafergut said:


> @defhacks & @JohnnyReggae so different opinions one after the other. Reading Michael's I just want to order one, reading Brent's I want to skip it. You guys do realize this means I need to know by myself so I'll have to buy one, right?



I have the new ShengShou cube and the only reason it's not my main is that I already have a reliable main. I don't know if it's objectively as good as Valk, GTS and Co. but I can totally see why people would use it as main.
Corner cutting is awesome, it's quite fast, not as stable as the Valk but good enough to let oneself go during algs. It won't pop or corner twist. I don't like the M slices though.


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## newtonbase (Oct 28, 2016)

JohnnyReggae said:


> No new cubes for a while and now I've had a bunch in just over a week. A local cubestore http://www.speedcubes.co.za had some new cubes on special so decided to buy a few. Using the local shop I get my order the day after ordering which is always great, better than waiting 3 months for stuff from China to get here. Only downside is it works out more expensive buying local, but for cheaper cubes I don't mind to much.
> 
> So in this package I got 5 in total:
> 
> ...


Those sudoku puzzles are evil. I got one in a Christmas cracker and had to draw up a plan of the layout before I could solve it.


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## Selkie (Oct 28, 2016)

@JohnnyReggae - I am going to add the Qiyi BigSail to my next cube order but holding off for the new Moyu 6x6

@mafergut - Great average, making awesome progress there!


Been practicing 3x3 today and still looking for the elusive sub 14.5 ao12 on camera. I also realise I don't have a sub 10 single on film. Got a nice 10.43 fullstep today though which is PB for a non lucky solve and was sub 15 for the first 40 solves of an Ao100 too.

Also gone back to the X-Man Tornado for now. It is far more stable than the Valk which is a necessity for me for UK Championship next week. When I am nervous I hold a cube tighter and the X-man is very forgiving of that.


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## mark49152 (Oct 28, 2016)

David Zemdegs said:


> Took me time to learn it


That's a long time considering the expert tuition you had access to . Great to see you finally compete though. There are a few dad/son teams here in the UK. My daughter's a bit young but one day maybe...


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## One Wheel (Oct 28, 2016)

Selkie said:


> holding off for the new Moyu 6x6



Did you see the post on the Magic Cube Mall thread? They claim to have it, and cheap (<$19 US). I wasn't overall thrilled with their service, but I did eventually get my Weichuang that I ordered .


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## mafergut (Oct 28, 2016)

@Selkie Chris, thanks I think I have started to make a bit of progress since I got the Valk, not sure if it is the cube or that I lookahead better on a stickerless cube or both but it's welcome anyway 
Also, for me the Yuxin 6x6 was kind of a flop, not nearly as good as I was anticipating, pops like crazy and I'm not sure I want to put the effort to swap springs for yuxin 5x5 ones (which I'd have to buy), tension, lube... So I was thinking about maybe buying another 6x6 but I am not decided between the new Qiyi (is it the WuHua?) or the Moyu Weishi GTS. I'll wait and see so looking forward to your feedback and others'. Also Kevin said nice things of the new Yuxin? 7x7 prototype  Chance to get a stickerless 7x7 and correct my mistake on buying a black stickered Aofu GT?


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## mark49152 (Oct 28, 2016)

mafergut said:


> Also, for me the Yuxin 6x6 was kind of a flop, not nearly as good as I was anticipating, pops like crazy and I'm not sure I want to put the effort to swap springs for yuxin 5x5 ones (which I'd have to buy), tension, lube... So I was thinking about maybe buying another 6x6 but I am not decided between the new Qiyi (is it the WuHua?) or the Moyu Weishi GTS. I'll wait and see so looking forward to your feedback and others'.


The Yuxin took some time and some setup but for me it's fine even without the spring swap. Smooth and stable, and I much prefer the wider outer layers. From the photos I have seen, it doesn't look like the new Moyu has those.


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## mafergut (Oct 28, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> The Yuxin took some time and some setup but for me it's fine even without the spring swap. Smooth and stable, and I much prefer the wider outer layers. From the photos I have seen, it doesn't look like the new Moyu has those.


You're right about the outer layers of the Weishi but the Qiyi seems to have them and it's a tad smaller than the Moyu, so probably same size as the Yuxin. Regarding setting up the Yuxin... what did you do to it? I don't want to tinker with such a big cube without a clear idea of what I want to achieve. The only thing I can think of to reduce layer misalignment leading to pops is tightening it a bit but it's already a sluggish cube that needs some effort to turn and I'm afraid that would worsen with tightening.


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## Selkie (Oct 28, 2016)

@mafergut , @mark49152 - The Yuxin 6x6 is so frustrating to me. I am a lazy turner and could not solve it without it popping. The last solve ever on it was in my sub 14 2-7 relay, it popped scrambling it and the pieces are now banished to a bag. I am back solving on the AoSu stickerless which is not ideal as it has pink instead of red and is all pastel shades but I have a few sub 4 mo3's on it. I don't think I'll get the Qiyi 6x6 despite being a Qiyi fan and I really like the Qiyi 5x5 (Yuxin is still my main 5x5) but early reports are it pops like the Yuxin 6x6 so waiting on the new Moyu which reports being very forgiving according to Felix!


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## mark49152 (Oct 28, 2016)

mafergut said:


> what did you do to it?


Tightened it 1/8 turn at a time until the lockups weren't an issue. I think only once or twice. Put a small amount of 10wt shock oil in. Then plenty of solves to break in. It is still quite sluggish, but that makes it controllable too.


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## MarcelP (Oct 28, 2016)

Selkie said:


>


Nice... F2L in 6 secs!


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## MarcelP (Oct 28, 2016)

David Zemdegs said:


> I am 56 and about to compete in my first competition. My son will be there. I hope he's not bored.


Very cool you are entering competition now! I did my first after 3 months of cubing and averaged around 40 secs. I was so proud!! LOL... It was actually a video of your son with his current 3x3 WR at that time what got me interested in cubing.


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## muchacho (Oct 28, 2016)

http://alejos.org/nemeses.php

Apparently it works, but not sure yet if everything is ok.

It may take more than 10 seconds to load when there are like 30000 nemeses, I may have to put a limit there.

Sorry for the 1990 "design"


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## earth2dan (Oct 28, 2016)

Been absent for a while, but _winter is coming_ and I'm starting to have more time for cubing and following cubing threads again. Nice to see y'all are still kickin it here 



pipkiksass said:


> ...found this absolute gem of an alg. You can all thank me later!
> (y) R2 (U' D) R2' U' R2 U R2' D' R2 U R2'


Now that's fun to execute! I switched it to start with R2' for finger tricky goodness. I've always used the standard alg but with a little practice I can definitely see this replacing it.

Sad to see no love for the Yuxin 6x6. After I said all those nice things about it when it came out. It's still my main 6x6, I fought with pops at first but after setting it up it blows my other 6x6's out of the water. I bought a second one to test the spring swap and I'm still unsure if it was worth it. I keep one at home and one at the office and I can't say I like one over the other. Both are good, just a little different.

I haven't bought any new cubes in a while. I still haven't got a Valk 3 or a Gans 356 Air, but I will likely expand my collection some more as soon as the snow starts flying, which won't be long now.


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## newtonbase (Oct 28, 2016)

muchacho said:


> http://alejos.org/nemeses.php
> 
> Apparently it works, but not sure yet if everything is ok.
> 
> ...


Good job. 

15 in the country.


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## One Wheel (Oct 28, 2016)

muchacho said:


> http://alejos.org/nemeses.php
> 
> Apparently it works, but not sure yet if everything is ok.
> 
> ...



I guess there are about 6 people in the world who have a w/feet single but lack a better 3x3 single or average than mine. I apparently have 876 world nemeses, and my feet single is good for 882nd. 83 nemeses in the US, and my feet solve is good for 84th here.


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## muchacho (Oct 28, 2016)

Must be more than 6, I think there are 1424 cubers with a feet single.


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## One Wheel (Oct 28, 2016)

muchacho said:


> Must be more than 6, I think there are 1424 cubers with a feet single.



6 with a better feet single than I do, I guess. It will start to get interesting if I ever add more events.


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## Logiqx (Oct 28, 2016)

@pipkiksass - I forgot to mention that my alg pages now work a lot better on mobile devices

Now you can browse effectively when you are away from your computer.


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## defhacks (Oct 28, 2016)

Selkie said:


> I don't think I'll get the Qiyi 6x6 despite being a Qiyi fan and I really like the Qiyi 5x5 (Yuxin is still my main 5x5) but early reports are it pops like the Yuxin 6x6 so waiting on the new Moyu which reports being very forgiving according to Felix!



I wouldn't abandon all hope with the new Qiyi 6x6 (Wuhua), it's possible that it might just need some setup work.

My big cube experience tops out at a barely used Yuxin 5x5, but Chris Olson had the Wuhua in his latest unboxing alongside the Weishi GTS, and seemed to be far more enthused about the Wuhua than the Weishi GTS.


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## Jason Green (Oct 29, 2016)

Cube club will be starting soon at the elementary school again. I want to donate some more cubes this year. Last year I let them use mine but some of the stickers got picked at.  (What should I expect?) So I'd like to donate some stickerless ones. Looks like I could do Guanlong pink or Yuxin Fire stickerless for $1 more. Any suggestions? I prefer using the cubicle, I'm not patient. 

(Looking $5 or less)


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## One Wheel (Oct 29, 2016)

Jason Green said:


> Cube club will be starting soon at the elementary school again. I want to donate some more cubes this year. Last year I let them use mine but some of the stickers got picked at.  (What should I expect?) So I'd like to donate some stickerless ones. Looks like I could do Guanlong pink or Yuxin Fire stickerless for $1 more. Any suggestions? I prefer using the cubicle, I'm not patient.
> 
> (Looking $5 or less)



For the difference in price ($2.80/each for 10 or more vs. $4) my two cents would be to get guanlongs from cubezz and use the difference to pay for expedited shipping or throw in a couple of guansus at $5.75, although they don't seem to have those in stickerless.


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## muchacho (Oct 29, 2016)

Maybe also buy a couple of those 7 cm cubes (Sail or Legend), they are cheap and may be useful for teaching and also fun to play with. Also a stickerless Skewb or Pyraminx?


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## muchacho (Oct 29, 2016)

One Wheel said:


> 6 with a better feet single than I do, I guess. It will start to get interesting if I ever add more events.


6 must be correct, sorry, somehow sometimes I skip some parts when reading


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## Jason Green (Oct 29, 2016)

muchacho said:


> Maybe also buy a couple of those 7 cm cubes (Sail or Legend), they are cheap and may be useful for teaching and also fun to play with. Also a stickerless Skewb or Pyraminx?


I did have a skewb and pyraminx last year but there were so many kids, most starting from scratch, that we only had time to talk about 3x3. That's actually when I learned to solve those two.


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## defhacks (Oct 29, 2016)

Depending how many you're buying, might be worth doing the math and paying for shipping from zcube, they tend to win out for budget cubes in any sort of multiple quantity. Whereas the free shipping for the "new moyu cube of the week" tends to make cubezz appealing for those purchases.

E.g. these are the $USD per unit prices for 6 or more (can mix/match colors within the cube model), and some brief comments on the stickerless versions
Guanlong $0.81 - thin plastic, I found the yellow/green bled together in bright sunlight
Yuxin Fire $1.25 - feels a little nicer than the guanlong, but the orange/red are fairly similar
KungFu QingHong $1.77 - only have this in black, but definitely a more solid and pleasant feel compared to the other two
Qiyi Thunderclap v1 $3.10 - the colors aren't super-bright, the pea green isn't to everyone's taste, but on the other hand, it's a thunderclap!

I picked the two stickerless models you mentioned, then included a couple other popular favourites that also come in stickerless for comparison. DHL tends to be the best shipping option for the orders I've done in the past, the orders were around 20-30 puzzles (mostly 3x3) and cost about $30-$40 to ship to Canada, and arrived in about 3-5 days. Oh! Almost forgot zcube always seem to have coupon codes of "sale" or "zcube" that are %20 off, and as far as I can tell that's a flat %20 on the whole order.

edit: added some comments
edit2: forgot about coupon code


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## Logiqx (Oct 29, 2016)

Jason Green said:


> Cube club will be starting soon at the elementary school again. I want to donate some more cubes this year. Last year I let them use mine but some of the stickers got picked at.  (What should I expect?) So I'd like to donate some stickerless ones. Looks like I could do Guanlong pink or Yuxin Fire stickerless for $1 more. Any suggestions? I prefer using the cubicle, I'm not patient.
> 
> (Looking $5 or less)



I uploaded my beginner / improver LL algs yesterday and wondered if they might be useful in cube club?

2-alg OLL + 2-alg PLL are for absolute "beginners" and simply use FUR..., Anti-Sune and Niklas combos.
4-alg OLL + 3-alg PLL are for "improvers" and introduce inverse algs (FRU..., Sune) + proper U-Perms.

The algorithms work equally well for 2H newbies or someone wanting to pick up OH in a hurry (e.g. @mark49152 in Guildford). They provide a clear pathway from beginner through to 4LLL and beyond.


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## pipkiksass (Oct 29, 2016)

Jason Green said:


> I did have a skewb and pyraminx last year but there were so many kids, most starting from scratch, that we only had time to talk about 3x3. That's actually when I learned to solve those two.


Maybe go to Lightake, or one of the other HK/Chinese stores, and order a few ShengShou cubes. You can pick them up for less than $2 each, if you have a couple of weeks to wait for delivery? Better to let the kids ruin cheap, effectively disposable cubes, and if they complain "dude, this cube doesn't reverse corner cut line-to-line" then perhaps they're ready to move on to a more expensive cube!?

Edit: ninja'd by @defhacks


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## Jason Green (Oct 29, 2016)

Thanks everyone, I'll definitely check out those options today. @Logiqx I will check out your alg sheets those sound good!


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## Jason Green (Oct 29, 2016)

David Z when and which comp will you be in? Been looking on cubecomps but haven't found you yet. Anyone else know?


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## muchacho (Oct 29, 2016)

Melbourne Cube Days 2016
https://www.speedsolving.com/forum/threads/melbourne-cube-days-2016.62545/#post-1198172
5-6 November


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## Jason Green (Oct 29, 2016)

muchacho said:


> Melbourne Cube Days 2016
> https://www.speedsolving.com/forum/threads/melbourne-cube-days-2016.62545/#post-1198172
> 5-6 November


Cool I found it before I read this. [emoji14] I guess I was thinking it was this weekend.


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## Jason Green (Oct 29, 2016)

defhacks said:


> Depending how many you're buying, might be worth doing the math and paying for shipping from zcube, they tend to win out for budget cubes in any sort of multiple quantity. Whereas the free shipping for the "new moyu cube of the week" tends to make cubezz appealing for those purchases.


Wow, this turned out to be an awesome deal! I was going to buy 10 cubes, but at $1.25 each I bought 20 Yuxin Fires, and even with $30 DHL shipping and the discount it came out to $52! About what I expected to pay for 10. 

I'll probably give 12 or so for school and keep some for give aways. I know one guy at work that said he just bought a Rubik's brand and solved it on his own in about an hour! (Is that even feasible, I guess maybe???) I'm a little skeptical of that but hey, I'm giving him one anyway.


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## pipkiksass (Oct 29, 2016)

Jason Green said:


> I know one guy at work that said he just bought a Rubik's brand and solved it on his own in about an hour! (Is that even feasible, I guess maybe???) I'm a little skeptical of that but hey, I'm giving him one anyway.



I'm HUGELY skeptical of this. I once took a cube to work, and had the usual "i solved it once in the 80s/by luck"...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## CLL Smooth (Oct 30, 2016)

Jason Green said:


> Wow, this turned out to be an awesome deal! I was going to buy 10 cubes, but at $1.25 each I bought 20 Yuxin Fires, and even with $30 DHL shipping and the discount it came out to $52! About what I expected to pay for 10.
> 
> I'll probably give 12 or so for school and keep some for give aways. I know one guy at work that said he just bought a Rubik's brand and solved it on his own in about an hour! (Is that even feasible, I guess maybe???) I'm a little skeptical of that but hey, I'm giving him one anyway.


About an hour=never happened.


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## Jason Green (Oct 30, 2016)

CLL Smooth said:


> About an hour=never happened.


Ok, I too should've said extremely skeptical.  He probably knew I could do it in 20 seconds, messed with it an hour or so, and felt embarrassed he couldn't solve it. I won't hold it against him, I'm taking the chance to try and get him into it. And who knows maybe he'll read this post someday... If so don't sweat it Shujat.


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## Jason Green (Oct 30, 2016)

Hey guys, hope you don't mind but I wanted to re-share two of these videos from a while back. I think it was before @pipkiksass was back on the thread, and I really took to heart the fact he said my kids gave him a lift during his rough time. Hope things are going well for you bud!


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## newtonbase (Oct 30, 2016)

Got a rare hour to myself today and decided to get all my crap 3BLD solves out of the way prior to the comp next weekend. I followed my slowest solve in months with a 15 DNF streak. Time well spent!


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## h2f (Oct 30, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> Got a rare hour to myself today and decided to get all my crap 3BLD solves out of the way prior to the comp next weekend. I followed my slowest solve in months with a 15 DNF streak. Time well spent!



Series of dnf's in 3bld - thats what I like.  They mean, next time it'll be better.


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## moralsh (Oct 30, 2016)

Just got back from my 7th comp this year bad results overall except 3x3 where I did a 19.78 average in the first round and a 19.42 in the second, both on video, I'll edit soon.


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## Logiqx (Oct 30, 2016)

2x2 is a funny event. My first session since the competition in Guildford...

*Best of all: 1.507
Best Avg of 5: 3.602*
Best Avg of 12: 4.843
Best Avg of 50: 5.677
Best Avg of 100: 5.842


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## pipkiksass (Oct 30, 2016)

Jason Green said:


> Hey guys, hope you don't mind but I wanted to re-share two of these videos from a while back. I think it was before @pipkiksass was back on the thread, and I really took to heart the fact he said my kids gave him a lift during his rough time. Hope things are going well for you bud!


Awesome. My favourite is the sticker bat! 

Things are going good, thanks very much. Got 4 hours in hospital tomorrow sat in a depressing room with loads of other people sat being depressed... and worst of all, can't cube! Sick people don't like noise, apparently. This one time someone burst into tears and kept crying for about an hour. I didn't know where to look. Someone over the other side of the room kept tutting. So British!

In other news, I have sticker application tape, and have never used it because I don't really know why. Looks much easier from @Jason Green's video. Do you folks prefer tape, or manual sticker-by-sticker (anal) method? Pretty sure I'll need new stickers for my Valk 3, I'd be VERY surprised if my Weilong/Dayan stickers can be forced to fit. First Cubicle order in 2 years may be required! :-D


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## Logiqx (Oct 30, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> Got a rare hour to myself today and decided to get all my crap 3BLD solves out of the way prior to the comp next weekend. I followed my slowest solve in months with a 15 DNF streak. Time well spent!



I was listening to some of the old CubeCast episodes whilst driving this weekend. Either Chris Hardwick or Mike Hughey commented that all BLD practice is useful... even long runs of DNFs.



moralsh said:


> Just got back from my 7th comp this year bad results overall except 3x3 where I did a 19.78 average in the first round and a 19.42 in the second, both on video, I'll edit soon.



Consistently sub-20. Nice work!


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## newtonbase (Oct 30, 2016)

Logiqx said:


> I was listening to some of the old CubeCast episodes whilst driving this weekend. Either Chris Hardwick or Mike Hughey commented that all BLD practice is useful... even long runs of DNFs.


I keep telling myself that too. The results will come eventually. Hopefully this weekend. I'm certain that I'll get a PB if I don't DNF every solve.


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## Jason Green (Oct 31, 2016)

@pipkiksass I will probably only ever use tape. I've never done it one by one. When I did the GANS I was a little annoyed because I had a few small bubbles I couldn't work out at first. I found if it is large enough you can pierce it with a needle. Otherwise they seem to go away on their own after a few weeks.

Even when I got my cubicle premium cubes I could see some minor bubble in them, I think I was more picky doing it myself.


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## mark49152 (Oct 31, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> I keep telling myself that too. The results will come eventually. Hopefully this weekend. I'm certain that I'll get a PB if I don't DNF every solve.


Yeah I agree with the advice passed on by Mike. In practice, too much accuracy means you're not pushing speed enough. I shoot for 50% so those are good DNFs. In comp, if you want a PB, it's better to fire out three fast attempts and hope one was accurate than fire out three accurate attempts and hope one was fast. Perverse as it sounds, I'm more satisfied by a 1:10 DNF than a 1:30 success (unless I'm trying to get to the next round).


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## One Wheel (Oct 31, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> Got a rare hour to myself today and decided to get all my crap 3BLD solves out of the way prior to the comp next weekend. I followed my slowest solve in months with a 15 DNF streak. Time well spent!



I think I'm on about a 50 DNF streak, so I should be in line for something really good. I've had a few DNFs under 6:00 I think, mostly around 8:00.


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## pglewis (Oct 31, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> Got a rare hour to myself today and decided to get all my crap 3BLD solves out of the way prior to the comp next weekend. I followed my slowest solve in months with a 15 DNF streak. Time well spent!



I can empathize. I had a free block to do a solid timed session tonight but my focus was clearly off, degrading to zero look-ahead by the end of it. But I did nail a PR 33.677 single mixed in with that mess. Edging ever so slowly closer to cracking sub 30 for the first time.


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## newtonbase (Oct 31, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> Yeah I agree with the advice passed on by Mike. In practice, too much accuracy means you're not pushing speed enough. I shoot for 50% so those are good DNFs. In comp, if you want a PB, it's better to fire out three fast attempts and hope one was accurate than fire out three accurate attempts and hope one was fast. Perverse as it sounds, I'm more satisfied by a 1:10 DNF than a 1:30 success (unless I'm trying to get to the next round).


I was tempted to just do a careful solve to get rid of the streak but I already know that I can solve it.
You'll get there @One Wheel. What do you think is causing the DNFs?


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## Selkie (Oct 31, 2016)

@Logiqx - had not looked at your alg pages until nice, nice work sir.

@defhacks - I will reserve judgement on the Wuhua and will certainly buy one I guess I am just more enthused by the release of the Moyu given what has been said about its stability. I have a tenancy through lazy turning to get layer misalignments and the number of pops I get is usually related to how a bigger cube deals with trying to turn through misalignments. Cubes that offer some resistance lead me to think Id better not push further. Cubes that offer little resistance and then pop I tend to pop lots. Here is a video of pushing through a misalignment earlier this year and that was only scrambling but didnt know where the misalignment was as was trying not to lose my place in the scramble on screen 






@moralsh - Was about to ask if these were your first sub 20 averages but spotted you had already done that in comp. Congratulations though over 1/2 a second faster 

@pipkiksass - I also went for the sticker by sticker approach which was very time consuming especially on a V-Cube 7x7 some years ago! One of the huge advantages of going stickerless now though!


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## Logiqx (Oct 31, 2016)

Selkie said:


> @Logiqx - had not looked at your alg pages until nice, nice work sir.



I managed to break them yesterday evening whilst trying to get the code working on older browsers. Fortunately, I noticed my mistake before going to bed so I backed out the changes before leaving for work this morning. 

Edit: 20.595 OH single this morning - full step with crazy TPS!


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## JohnnyReggae (Oct 31, 2016)

Finally managed to solve my new 3x3 Ghost cube. It really is pure evil. Spent the first couple of days with it not realising that I was incorrectly trying to build it up using the centers as a gauge ... doh !! Came close to finishing it a few times, but messing up an alg just throws the whole thing into a mess again :-(

But at least I have a fair idea now of what's going on with it that hopefully my next solve will be a lot quicker


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## JohnnyReggae (Oct 31, 2016)

@Selkie - I had that exact thing happen to me with my Aoshi when I was scrambling it. Took me well over and hour and a half to put it back together again. I instantly tightened the tensions, however it is a lot harder to turn now as I am so worried about it popping like that again. This is also the reason I don't solve it to often. I can't get more than 4 or 5 solves in and my fingers and hands are to tired to do anymore. My problem is that I do want to solve the 6x6 more often, but can't seem to justify buying a new one particularly at the price of them.


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## mafergut (Oct 31, 2016)

@Selkie, Chris, that 6x6 scramble pop is legendary! I can't stop watching it over and over. I did a couple solves with my Yuxin 6x6 this weekend, one before tightening it and another one after tightening it just 1/4 of a turn on each side, after maybe 2 months without solving it.

Funny that the fastest of the two was the 1st one by more than 1 minute. After tightening it feels more difficult to pop so maybe I just need some practice and also build some confidence in that the cube will not pop so I can start to turn a bit faster. I am around 3:15 on average on 5x5 and I have to turn so carefully that I just can't get below 7:30 on 6x6 (the expected times should be around 6:30) so I'm not really speedsolving it, just solving it


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## Selkie (Oct 31, 2016)

@Logiqx - I work for a software division of a large multinational, know all about frustrations of bugs 

Have to say if I want to attain a goal I announce it here, work hard and then attain it. Announce it elsewhere and I seldom get it. I cannot put a value on my progression I get from this thread and the great cubers who post in it. Sorry it needed saying, when I started speedcubing 6 years ago there was no older community or at least we were all isolated and did not have somewhere to collaborate. Simply awesome

Soooo, aim last week was for a sub 14.5 Ao12 on film. Had some very near misses (Four 14.5x averages whilst the camera was rolling). Have to say though was a bit disappointed in honesty, the average was sub 14 for a long time but fell apart after the 16.x but managed to hold on for the average here.

3x3 Average of 12: 14.44


Spoiler



1. 15.18 L2 B2 L2 D2 B2 F2 D' B2 D' B2 U2 B' U R2 U' F L' R' F' D' B2
2. 12.76 D' R2 D2 F2 D' B2 U2 R2 F2 U' R B L D R' D U B2 D U
3. 13.77 L2 U R2 U R2 D2 R2 D' F2 L2 R D B2 F' D2 F2 L' U B' R D2
4. 13.01 B2 R2 U' R2 D' B2 D' U2 B2 L2 R' D B R2 B2 D2 F R' U L2
5. (12.42) F R2 U' R L' U2 L' D F' D2 F D2 F U2 F L2 F2 L2 F'
6. 14.17 R F2 D2 B2 U2 L2 U2 F2 R2 U2 R B' R2 D' B' F' U' B2 D L U2
7. (16.26) U' D' B' R B U' B R' L F2 U2 L2 B R2 F' R2 L2 U2 F2 R2
8. 13.74 R2 F B2 U' D2 R' F' L D F2 D2 B2 D2 R2 B2 L2 B R2 U2 F
9. 15.75 L2 B2 D F2 D2 B2 L2 U L2 U F2 R D U' R U' B' F' R2 F2 R
10. 15.91 D2 L2 F2 L' D2 L F2 D2 L' B2 R' U' B L' D U B2 U2 B' L B2
11. 15.88 F2 R2 B' L2 U2 B2 U2 R2 F2 R2 F2 U' R2 B L D' L R' B R2 B'
12. 14.19 R' D' R' B D' B' D2 R L' U2 F' U2 F R2 B2 U2 B' U2 B' L2


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## Selkie (Oct 31, 2016)

@JohnnyReggae , @mafergut - I can clearly see on the video it was misaligned but didn't want to look down and lose my place the video was still runnign through the reassemble but due to some frustrated choice words I did not publish it in its entirety  This was before I switched to stickerless and have to confess I have not as yet popped the Mouu Aosu Stickerless. With what you and @mark49152 have said about the tensions on the Yuxin I will reassemble it and tighten it and see if that helps. I should give it more time after all the Yuxin 5x5 is my main and no new cube on the market seems to be better for me though the Qiyi 5x5 came close.


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## One Wheel (Oct 31, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> @One Wheel. What do you think is causing the DNFs?



That's really probably a large part of the problem, that I haven't gone back to figure it out. When I started I think I was undoing setup moves incorrectly, and ending up with a completely scrambled cube. Now a typical attempt might have 3 edges and 3-5 corners out of place, which suggests to me that most likely I'm having an issue with breaking into new cycles.


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## mafergut (Oct 31, 2016)

@Selkie, Chris another nice lesson on how a 16.xx second solve is a bad solve and the worst in an Ao12. And it all seems to be lookahead during cross+F2L. Not saying that your LL is bad, don't get me wrong, but maybe I am just 1 sec slower at LL so, the only explanation for the 3 seconds between your good Ao12 of 14.xx and mine of 17.xx is very good lookahead and probably a bit more efficiency as well. You seem to pause very rarely during the whole solve and not for long in any case. Really motivating to try and get close to that but, at the same time, feels so unattainable right now.

And this is more evident in big cubes with sub-1 4x4, sub-2 5x5 and sub-4 6x6 where I am around 50% slower (the more so the bigger the cube, around 30% slower at 4x4 but around 75% slower at 6x6).


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## Shaky Hands (Oct 31, 2016)

You can add me to the list of people with a long streak of BLD DNF's at the moment. Am thinking of unregistering for 3BLD at the UK Championships to stop hogging a table and reduce pressure on the organisers.

Been doing some 3x3 practice recently which is rare for me since the previous comp. I think my trusty Thunderclap may be getting worn out as despite lubing as I would normally do, it's catching in ways that it didn't before. More investigation needed. Don't want to fiddle with the tensions though as I'm really happy with that cube when it's doing its job properly. Hoping to get a PB average at the next comp.

I was at a wedding this past weekend and my new brother-in-law's daughter had a cube with her so I got a chance to impress a few people. Although I didn't realise until part-way through the first solve that her cube had silver rather than yellow, which fazed me for a bit! 

Most of my practice recently has been on big cubes. I've been doing a lot of Hoya on 5x5 but think I'll stick with regular reduction for the UK Championships. Managed a 7x7 PB single (8:19.90) this week and have registered to compete in that for the first time at the Birmingham comp in December as I'm now averaging below the Hard Cut.

Still not learned Pyraminx, which was my planned PB for the UK Championships. I think I have a good chance at a PB in FMC though so hopefully I won't mess that up.


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## Selkie (Oct 31, 2016)

@mafergut Thanks Miguel and very good observations too. My LL or turn speed are not that high and in truth my hands feel at least 10 years older than they did when I started speed cubing 6 years ago if that makes sense. I never was very ambidextrous but I still I do not have as much dexterity in my left hand anymore. I have given up OH as I fail very badly at it now. I also find my turning style gets lazier and lazier. I think this is why the high TPS training and solves I do have such a great affect. With my hands getting slower it is really paying off trying to push them to their limits.

I always try and be very self critical of my look ahead and it is something I have worked on over the years. When I find exactly the right turn speed which is about max-10% then I am hopeful I can hold on to look
ahead but I am often slow to stop looking at current pair and start tracking next. If you switch your gaze even 1 move later it can have a big effect.

Thanks for the comments on bigger cubes which have improved at the same rate as 3x3 but I am not globally sub 1 at 4x4, sub 2 at 5x5, sub 4 at 6x6 I just have some averages sub those milestones. In reality I am more like 4x4: Sub 1:05, 5x5: Sub 2:10 and 6x6: Sub 4:15.

You have improved so much, nail the pauses and 14.x ao12 is not only attainable, you could easily surpass it, of that I am sure 

@Shaky Hands Andy, that is great progress on bigger cubes. What do you average globally now on 4x4-7x7? Will only be at day 2 of Birmingham so really hoping they schedule 6x6 or 7x7 for Sunday. I do have a spare Thunderclap in black if you want it mate? Hardly used as as you are aware I'm a stickerless junkie. Could bring it to Bristol this weekend mate.


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## mark49152 (Oct 31, 2016)

@Shaky Hands: Like @newtonbase said, a run of DNFs means you're due for a run of successes. So it's a bad time to quit!


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## Shaky Hands (Oct 31, 2016)

Selkie said:


> @Shaky Hands Andy, that is great progress on bigger cubes. What do you average globally now on 4x4-7x7? Will only be at day 2 of Birmingham so really hoping they schedule 6x6 or 7x7 for Sunday. I do have a spare Thunderclap in black if you want it mate? Hardly used as as you are aware I'm a stickerless junkie. Could bring it to Bristol this weekend mate.



I think I'm around sub-1:50 (4x4), sub-3:10 (5x5), sub-6:20 (6x6) and sub-9:30 (7x7) with PB singles for each around 20% lower.

Thanks for the offer of the Thunderclap but I'm also stickerless-only these days. I do have 2 stickerless Thunderclaps, it's just that one of them was awesome (Mark was scrambling at the last comp and said it was the best cube in the round) but unless I can sort out its chronic arthiritis it may be due for the Cubing Retirement Home In the Sky.


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## mark49152 (Oct 31, 2016)




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## Selkie (Oct 31, 2016)

@Shaky Hands - No worries I will keep it for the springs. I believe a Yuxin Blue 4x4 is awesome with Thunderclap springs!

@mark49152 - Haha love it mate and a new event - 3x3 With Teeth!


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## pglewis (Oct 31, 2016)

Selkie said:


> I believe a Yuxin Blue 4x4 is awesome with Thunderclap springs!



Anyone know if this applies to the bigger (62mm) Yuxin 4x4 as well? I keep hearing how awesome the Blue is with the TC springs but even at n00b level I don't use my bigger Yuxin if I'm timing; the G4 is so much better for me atm.


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## mafergut (Oct 31, 2016)

@mark49152 I love the pic!That pumpkin is chewing on your cube, though 

@Shaky Hands You only need to shave off 15 seconds from your 4x4 and you will be perfectly balanced from 4x4 to 7x7. In my case it's the other way around, I'm comparatively faster at 4x4 and slower as I go up to 7x7. I have to say that I have barely practised 6x6 and 7x7 but I have practised 5x5 enough to expect being closer to my 4x4 times (in comparison, that is, twice my 4x4 times) but nope. I'm sub 1:30 at 4x4 (best Ao100 1:27.xx) but my best Ao100 at 5x5 is far from 2:54.xx, in fact it's 3:20.xx.

@pglewis, @Selkie Everybody keeps talking about this so I will have to swap springs between my unused Thunderclap and my unused Yuxin Blue 4x4. Maybe I can get as a result at least one cube that I want to use!  The Thunderclap is not bad but I have cubes that I like better. The Yuxin Blue is, to say it plainly, unusable out of the box.


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## earth2dan (Oct 31, 2016)

mafergut said:


> I have practised 5x5 enough to expect being closer to my 4x4 times (in comparison, that is, twice my 4x4 times) but nope. I'm sub 1:30 at 4x4 (best Ao100 1:27.xx) but my best Ao100 at 5x5 is far from 2:54.xx, in fact it's 3:20.xx.


I often see people comparing times across different puzzles like this. What do you use as a guideline for comparing your 4x4 times to your 5x5, 6x6, etc...? Do you just double the time as you go up each tier?

I average around 1:25 on 4x4 and around 2:40 on 5x5. I "feel" like I'm better at 5x5, but that could just be because I enjoy it more...


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## pglewis (Oct 31, 2016)

earth2dan said:


> I often see people comparing times across different puzzles like this. What do you use as a guideline for comparing your 4x4 times to your 5x5, 6x6, etc...?



@Logiqx to the rescue again, he has this in his sig: https://www.speedsolving.com/forum/threads/relative-solve-times-for-2x2x2-7x7x7.47405/


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## earth2dan (Oct 31, 2016)

pglewis said:


> @Logiqx to the rescue again, he has this in his sig: https://www.speedsolving.com/forum/threads/relative-solve-times-for-2x2x2-7x7x7.47405/


That's a fun read, and exactly what I was looking for. Bookmarked 

Edit: Interesting. According to these figures my 2x2 and 7x7 times are comparatively awful... This doesn't surprise me. And my 4-5-6 times are comparatively average or better.


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## newtonbase (Oct 31, 2016)

One Wheel said:


> That's really probably a large part of the problem, that I haven't gone back to figure it out. When I started I think I was undoing setup moves incorrectly, and ending up with a completely scrambled cube. Now a typical attempt might have 3 edges and 3-5 corners out of place, which suggests to me that most likely I'm having an issue with breaking into new cycles.


It does sound like memo errors. Either solving the wrong piece or cycle break errors. As you say , set up errors tend to screw everything up. 
Feel free to post scrambles and your solutions if you want us to check for errors.


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## mafergut (Oct 31, 2016)

pglewis said:


> @Logiqx to the rescue again, he has this in his sig: https://www.speedsolving.com/forum/threads/relative-solve-times-for-2x2x2-7x7x7.47405/


@earth2dan Exactly my source of comparative information for times across different puzzles. It looks like from 4x4 up to 6x6 it's all twice the time but then 7x7 is just 1.5x times the 6x6 times. For me it's just a lot worse than that but at least I did another 3 6x6 solves today and the Yuxin seems to not want to pop anymore after tightening. So thanks @mark49152 for your advice.


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## pglewis (Oct 31, 2016)

I just had to sneak an order in at the Cubicle while the Halloween sale is still going on. Expanding my horizons: ShengShou Skewb and a stickerless QiYi WuShuang 5x5 on the way. Getting one because with all the talk, c'mon, how can I not: Premium Valk 3. Also a set of replacement stickers for my G4 because I can tell it's going to need them before long, and a couple sets of Thunderclap springs because Thunderclap Spring All The Things.


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## One Wheel (Oct 31, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> It does sound like memo errors. Either solving the wrong piece or cycle break errors. As you say , set up errors tend to screw everything up.
> Feel free to post scrambles and your solutions if you want us to check for errors.



Thanks! It seems like I have developed a habit of completely forgetting my memo immediately after (or sometimes even before I finish) execution. I also use a slightly unorthodox lettering scheme. But the last one I did before I saw this was the last scramble from the WC. I'll give it a shot:

Scramble: F2 D F2 D' F2 D B2 F2 D' B2 D' B' D F' L D2 L' D2 R F' U'

Lettering scheme:
U: cw from UBL is A B C D.
F: cw from FUL is E F G H
R: cw from RUF is I J K L
L: cw from LUB is M N O P
B: ccw (cw looking through the cube) from BUL is Q R S T
D: ccw from DBL is U V W X

Corner memo: LH CG / KBK / NE PU (U2 R-perm U2)

Edge memo: (can't remember what I did, best I can figure out. Pretty sure the last two cycles are the same.) R / XG AO / TE MT / VSK / FHF

This results in 4 bad edges and 5 bad corners.


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## mark49152 (Oct 31, 2016)

One Wheel said:


> Edge memo: (can't remember what I did, best I can figure out. Pretty sure the last two cycles are the same.) R / XG AO / TE MT / VSK / FHF


Are you using M2? If so, how are you remembering whether your M slice targets are switched or not?


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## One Wheel (Oct 31, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> Are you using M2? If so, how are you remembering whether your M slice targets are switched or not?



No, I'm still on straight OP. I kind of want another success before I learn the additional algs for M2.


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## mark49152 (Oct 31, 2016)

One Wheel said:


> No, I'm still on straight OP. I kind of want another success before I learn the additional algs for M2.


Have you tried executing the above memo sighted and checking the state after each target? Your corner memo looks OK. I can't figure out your edge letter scheme but I make it two 3-cycles and three 2-cycles, same as you. It's hard to talk about it with non-standard letter scheme


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## One Wheel (Nov 1, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> Have you tried executing the above memo sighted and checking the state after each target? Your corner memo looks OK. I can't figure out your edge letter scheme but I make it two 3-cycles and three 2-cycles, same as you. It's hard to talk about it with non-standard letter scheme



I'm not using three cycles, at least as I understand them. That would be like an A-perm or a U-perm, right?


mark49152 said:


> Have you tried executing the above memo sighted and checking the state after each target? Your corner memo looks OK. I can't figure out your edge letter scheme but I make it two 3-cycles and three 2-cycles, same as you. It's hard to talk about it with non-standard letter scheme



I just got a chance and double checked it. I think in this case most of the problem was using the wrong R-perm, but I also had errors in both corner and edge memo. CG should have been CN for corners, and I'm still not sure how I ended up with A in my edge buffer slot.

Regarding lettering schemes: I'm obviously not all that proficient yet, I imagine it's not too late to switch to a standard scheme. Is it worth it, or should I stick with what I've got?


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## newtonbase (Nov 1, 2016)

One Wheel said:


> I'm not using three cycles, at least as I understand them. That would be like an A-perm or a U-perm, right?
> 
> 
> I just got a chance and double checked it. I think in this case most of the problem was using the wrong R-perm, but I also had errors in both corner and edge memo. CG should have been CN for corners, and I'm still not sure how I ended up with A in my edge buffer slot.
> ...


CG looks right to me. You are finishing off your cycle with G. It's only the buffer piece that shouldn't be solved. 
If you can switch your lettering scheme then I would recommend it for situations like this. It's very useful to be able to compare memos. Hopefully it wouldn't be too confusing to make the change at this stage .


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## mark49152 (Nov 1, 2016)

One Wheel said:


> I'm not using three cycles, at least as I understand them. That would be like an A-perm or a U-perm, right?


No, I mean we got the same number of cycles of the same lengths in our memos. I didn't check your letters so it doesn't mean the memo is correct, but if I had found two 4-cycles and a 3-cycle I'd have said your memo was wrong regardless of the lettering.

I suggest switching to Speffz. There's really no advantage to a non-standard scheme. Some people like to not have Q or X or other harder letters, but you can always use Speffz and just swap out one or two you don't like, and it will still be way easier to share with others.


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## h2f (Nov 1, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> There's really no advantage to a non-standard scheme.



Unless you are non-English speaker.  Yeah, speffz is good and logic and its worth to keep it.

I was busy in last 2 weeks but I've kept practicing. Dropped my 3x3 timest to 19.09 ao1000. I like solving with Valk 3 and there came a time to buy the one for me. It'll be black one.


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## Logiqx (Nov 1, 2016)

Good start to the day!

Empty carriage + full TPS lead to 2 second improvements across the board - Ao5, Ao12 and overall session.

*Title: 3x3x3 OH*
# of solving: 24
Std Dev: 1.988
Best of all: 21.790
Worst of all: 34.695
*Best Avg of 5: 25.250
Best Avg of 12: 26.502
Average of all: 27.369*
---- Generated by KingEn Timer v3.3

Solving times: 27.553 28.327 28.094 31.352 27.755 29.760 26.397 28.612 25.191 25.273 26.861 24.110 25.288 26.975 29.530 21.790 29.771 26.788 28.849 34.695 26.269 23.283 26.462 29.618


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## JohnnyReggae (Nov 1, 2016)

@pglewis, @Selkie, @mafergut ... I can definitely say that the Thunderclap springs in the Yuxin Blue transforms the cube into the best 4x4 for me. Out of the box the cube is rubbish, but with the TC springs it's absolutely amazing. It is now my main over the MeiYue and Mini Aosu. I've done a lot of solves over the last 3 or so weeks of having the cube and have not had a single pop ... not one. I can't get through 2 or 3 solves with my mini Aosu without a pop. The MeiYu pops around every 10 solves or so. If you have a TC and a Yuxin Blue ... swap the springs.


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## mark49152 (Nov 1, 2016)

h2f said:


> Unless you are non-English speaker.


But even then, it would make sense to use a standardised scheme for whatever your language is, if there's a community to share with. Is there a standardised scheme for Polish speakers? I would guess there is for Russian where even the alphabet is different...


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## mafergut (Nov 1, 2016)

JohnnyReggae said:


> @pglewis, @Selkie, @mafergut ... I can definitely say that the Thunderclap springs in the Yuxin Blue transforms the cube into the best 4x4 for me. Out of the box the cube is rubbish, but with the TC springs it's absolutely amazing. It is now my main over the MeiYue and Mini Aosu. I've done a lot of solves over the last 3 or so weeks of having the cube and have not had a single pop ... not one. I can't get through 2 or 3 solves with my mini Aosu without a pop. The MeiYu pops around every 10 solves or so. If you have a TC and a Yuxin Blue ... swap the springs.


Ok then, I will make this my Christmas project. Just a curiosity. Did you put the Yuxin Blue springs back on the TC? What did they make of it?


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## JohnnyReggae (Nov 1, 2016)

mafergut said:


> Ok then, I will make this my Christmas project. Just a curiosity. Did you put the Yuxin Blue springs back on the TC? What did they make of it?


I did put the Yuxin springs into the TC, and to be honest it's not that great. The original springs are better, but then again I've never really been a fan on the TC and my TC is only used for some BLD practice which at the moment is not happening ... too many other things to focus on.

TheCubicle does sell the TC springs on their own, however I am not sure if they have stock ATM

Edit: It appears they do have stock ... https://thecubicle.us/qiyi-thunderclap-spring-p-7156.html


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## h2f (Nov 1, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> But even then, it would make sense to use a standardised scheme for whatever your language is, if there's a community to share with.


It's up what are you used to. In Polish for example there's no many words with q, x, or y you could use. I know few polish blinders using English words but for me for example it's not natural. I dont know if there's a popular scheme in Polish. I havent met it. I think it's due to fact that Maskow in his tutorials doesnt give any scheme. On the Polish forum - when existed - there wasnt any scheme too. On the other hand - Grzsiek Jałocha does but I dont know if it's popular.


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## One Wheel (Nov 1, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> CG looks right to me. You are finishing off your cycle with G. It's only the buffer piece that shouldn't be solved.
> If you can switch your lettering scheme then I would recommend it for situations like this. It's very useful to be able to compare memos. Hopefully it wouldn't be too confusing to make the change at this stage .



I'll work on learning Speffz. I just went back and checked my memo again, and this time when I execute it sighed it seems the problem lies entirely with my parity fix. I think I should be doing U' Ra U instead of U2 Rb U2.

Thanks for your help! I think I might get this yet!


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## mark49152 (Nov 1, 2016)

One Wheel said:


> it seems the problem lies entirely with my parity fix. I think I should be doing U' Ra U instead of U2 Rb U2


I've not done OP edges much, but if you execute an odd number of corners first with Y perm, you will leave the UB and UL edges swapped. So you must swap those back while also swapping the two corners that will be swapped by your T perm, UBR and UFR. So that is definitely Ra perm.

Whatever AUF you need to set up your Ra perm depends on which alg you use. The headlights will be on the left so you'll need to AUF those to the correct starting position, but you'll also need to know if your alg does net turns of the U face so that you get the right AUF afterwards too.


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## Selkie (Nov 1, 2016)

@Logiqx - Thats some insane OH improvement Mick

@JohnnyReggae - Thanks for the recommendation Brent. I see Marty's store has stickerless Yuxin Blue's in stock and I have it on reliable advice that he has the 6x6 WuHua's on order. I feel an order coming on soon 

Square-1, Megaminx and Clock are the puzzles of choice today and only 4 days of training left including today before UKC!

Square-1 - Had to relearn (remind myself) of 3 algs as I have not solved this really since Exeter Open. I feel I should make average cut which is lower at 50s but I will need some easy cubeshapes to threaten my comp PB average of ~38s. Would need a miracle to move up 40+ rankings.

Megaminx - You will recall I did megaminx only for a few weeks and got down to sub 2:10 which I felt was a good level given usual UK average cut of 2:30 but the cut is 2:15 for UKC which is a little close for comfort. However seem to be averaging ~2:06 so I will just have to hope that I don't get horrible last layers on solves 1 or 2. I dont have an official average so any average at all will be comp PB

Clock - Not solved much clock and this is scheduled for practice a bit later today.


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## Shaky Hands (Nov 1, 2016)

@Selkie, have you experimented at all with Rob Yau's Clock method? (https://www.speedsolving.com/forum/threads/new-rubiks-clock-method.44466/)

@newtonbase, was mentioning this at the Guildford comp.


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## muchacho (Nov 1, 2016)

@Selkie, I'm learning Square-1, how do you do cubeshape? I do it by grouping 8 edges on top, and it takes me more than 30 seconds. How much time that step takes you?

Good luck Selkie and the rest competing at UKC!


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## Selkie (Nov 1, 2016)

@Shaky Hands - I have to confess I hadn't. I still use Pochmann method but having a quick look I love the idea of only turning top dials. Will take a closer look post UKC, perhaps a switch of method is in order 

Did 20 minutes of clock and seem to be sub 15 so that would be very welcome in comp.

Well my practicing schedule went out the window and decided to do some 4x4 after some clock. Got a PB Ao5 on film. Was actually quite pleased with this average as not only was it PB but it had 3 OLL parities and 3 PLL parities (1:OLL/PLL, 2:OLL/-, 3:-/-, 4:OLL/PLL, 5: -/PLL) which is above average. Always felt needed to get lucky with parities to get sub 1. Apologies for the video flood last couple of days 

Average of 5: 58.08
1. 1:00.66 u' B D' F U2 r2 L U D f2 D2 B R' L D2 F f R' B' f' F' R U r' D f2 u' U' B2 f2 r2 L B2 R' U2 r U' r2 L' R2 
2. 57.80 R f F U L' R r' F R2 B R2 B2 F r2 F' D2 U2 L2 D' r' U' B2 r' D2 u L2 F u r f' F' L U2 R L' f F' D F' r2 
3. (53.28) r f U' L R' U R B' D2 U r' F2 D' F2 r' F r' U2 L2 f2 R r f' B r u L D' F' f' u B2 r2 L f' U r f' u' L' 
4. (1:08.81) D2 u' L r2 U R f' B r D' R B2 R U u2 r2 F2 u2 r f2 U2 F L' B2 D' u F' D2 u f R2 B' U2 r D2 u' L2 F f D 
5. 55.77 F' r2 B' f2 R' F2 u B2 L' u' f2 r2 L F2 R r' F2 B2 R2 U R' U F2 u B2 L F' u' B' R' f2 r' U L' F' D' r2 B' r F2


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## Selkie (Nov 1, 2016)

@muchacho - I initially learned from this guide http://www.kungfoomanchu.com/guides/andy-klise-square-1.pdf though in reality my cubeshape is intuitive, usually trying to pair up edges until I get to a case I know and then as you do getting all 8 edges together. This is highly unoptimised and consequently it can take me up to 15 seconds on bad cases. I always said I wanted to learn all the cases, perhaps a project for over Christmas!


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## CLL Smooth (Nov 1, 2016)

muchacho said:


> @Selkie, I'm learning Square-1, how do you do cubeshape? I do it by grouping 8 edges on top, and it takes me more than 30 seconds. How much time that step takes you?
> 
> Good luck Selkie and the rest competing at UKC!


This video helped me back when I was learning sq-1. Particularly the stuff about scallop-kite, which starts around 5:30.


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## muchacho (Nov 1, 2016)

Thanks, I guess I'm not enough committed to Square-1 yet, that video has more information than what I can digest for now.


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## CLL Smooth (Nov 1, 2016)

muchacho said:


> Thanks, I guess I'm not enough committed to Square-1 yet, that video has more information than what I can digest for now.


Just watch the stuff about scallop-kite that starts sometime after 5 minutes.


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## mark49152 (Nov 1, 2016)

@Selkie, nice average. You won the race to sub-1 . My 4x4 average has not improved for months. My rolling ao1000 has only dropped from 1:12 to 1:09 in 3000+ solves. 1000 solves for each 1s of improvement is hard work!


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## Selkie (Nov 1, 2016)

@mark49152 - Thanks Mark but with nerves added to the equation it is going to take some good solves the weekend to beat your excellent comp PB average sir. Like to think I am sub 1:05 now but home and comp and completely different beasts to me.

@CLL Smooth - Nice link, I think I am going to watch a few times and try and learn some more optimal cases.


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## Shaky Hands (Nov 1, 2016)

Picked up a 4x4 today for the first time in at least 2 weeks. Managed a 4x4 PB single of 1:14.63 during this average of 25:

1:31.77, 1:33.79, 1:38.16, 1:33.31, 1:31.05, 1:28.29, 1:35.39, 1:43.57, 1:44.91, 1:42.03, 1:50.00, 1:49.08, 1:14.63, 1:25.34, 1:40.03, 1:34.40, 1:52.13, 1:35.76, 1:37.71, 1:28.29, 1:45.89, 1:37.42, 1:25.22, 1:32.19, 1:58.58

That's 9 seconds better than my previous 4x4 PB single and there were no skips that I recall (at least not in the 3x3 stage.)

Feeling quite happy with this. 5 solves below the usual UK Average Cut of 1:30... but even including these, I've only had 10 solves below that cut ever! All that Hoya practice on 5x5 seems to be transferring well to 4x4.


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## mark49152 (Nov 1, 2016)

Selkie said:


> @mark49152 - Thanks Mark but with nerves added to the equation it is going to take some good solves the weekend to beat your excellent comp PB average sir. Like to think I am sub 1:05 now but home and comp and completely different beasts to me.


Comp pressure can be positive. 1:05 would be a good ao5 for me at home.


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## mark49152 (Nov 1, 2016)

Ian Scheffler's book "Cracking the Cube" arrived today. I've only flicked through so far, but it looks great and I can already recommend it.


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## Shaky Hands (Nov 1, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> Ian Scheffler's book "Cracking the Cube" arrived today. I've only flicked through so far, but it looks great and I can already recommend it.



Yes, I became aware of it from this youtube video:





It was on my Amazon wishlist and now it's showing as purchased without me having bought it myself. I think my mother may have ordered it for my birthday without realising it was a pre-order, so I suspect I'm waiting until Christmas-time for this now.


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## pglewis (Nov 2, 2016)

Another sledge case that has replaced the more intuitive approach for me, pair upside down in its slot. Trigger friendly.


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## newtonbase (Nov 2, 2016)

pglewis said:


> Another sledge case that has replaced the more intuitive approach for me, pair upside down in its slot. Trigger friendly.


Very nice. I'll be using this. Keep them coming .


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## h2f (Nov 2, 2016)

pglewis said:


> Another sledge case that has replaced the more intuitive approach for me, pair upside down in its slot. Trigger friendly.


I use too for few months. Earlier I was using this one.


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## Selkie (Nov 2, 2016)

@Shaky Hands - Really nice 4x4 times, with practice full average at Birmingham?! 

@mark49152 - Hadn't heard of the book before, I will get a copy ordered.

@pglewis - Nice alg, lie that one a lot.


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## Logiqx (Nov 2, 2016)

pglewis said:


> Another sledge case that has replaced the more intuitive approach for me, pair upside down in its slot. Trigger friendly.


It's a nice one and it's been part of my standard F2L for a long time. 

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk


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## Shaky Hands (Nov 2, 2016)

Selkie said:


> @Shaky Hands - Really nice 4x4 times, with practice full average at Birmingham?!



Certainly possible. It was one of my targets for 2016. I did another 35 solves after the first 25 last night and 9 of the 35 were under 1:30, including a 1:25.15 Ao5 so there's every hope if I have 6 weeks' practice before then.


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## mafergut (Nov 2, 2016)

pglewis said:


> Another sledge case that has replaced the more intuitive approach for me, pair upside down in its slot. Trigger friendly.


8 moves long, when my current intuitive approach is 11 moves + 1 rotation. I need to implement this asap. Thanks!


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## Shaky Hands (Nov 2, 2016)

mafergut said:


> 8 moves long, when my current intuitive approach is 11 moves + 1 rotation. I need to implement this asap. Thanks!



My intuitive approach to this was (R U' R') (F' U2 F) - just 6 moves.

Edit: I usually do U2' rather than U2.


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## mafergut (Nov 2, 2016)

Shaky Hands said:


> My intuitive approach to this was (R U' R') (F' U2 F) - just 6 moves.
> 
> Edit: I usually do U2' rather than U2.


Yep, you're right, I for some reason counted the moves for the different case where the edge is flipped (the triple sexy case). For this I do what you do but with a rotation (R U' R') y (L' U2 L) as I hate F turns (sledgehammer flows nice but doing an F' from normal grip is a bit awkward for me and needs a regrip which takes usually as much time as a y rotation).


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## MarcelP (Nov 2, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> 1000 solves for each 1s of improvement is hard work!


I do not think I even solved 1000 4X4's in whole my life  LOL


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## mark49152 (Nov 2, 2016)

MarcelP said:


> I do not think I even solved 1000 4X4's in whole my life  LOL


The only speed events I practise now are 4x4 and 5x5. That's the case for the last 1.5 years. Despite never practising 3x3 and 2x2, my comp times have remained about the same. I usually have to relearn my PBLs while warming up for 2x2 first round though


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## h2f (Nov 2, 2016)

I wonder how my times would look if Im back to practice 4x4 (I didnt for at least 4 months when I did around 200 solves).

Now I'm focused on big blind events. There are Nationals in December and it's the only chance to get some nice result. In 3bld and mbld I have no much chance but 4bld and 5bld seems opened. For now - theres no sure if there are big blds in the schedule.

I'm reviewing my advanced memo list now. So many empty spaces...


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## Selkie (Nov 2, 2016)

Talking of events we don't practice I would have to say Skewb, Pyraminx and 2x2 fall way into that category for me 

So I figure there are 6 easy comp PBs with single and average with a bit of effort. First up 2x2 and I was globally ~8s. With Comp results of single 6:05 and average of 9.36. Did the first ever 2x2 Ao100 of my life and the results were:-

number of times: 100/100
best time: 3.07
worst time: 11.92

current avg5: 7.46 (σ = 0.22)
best avg5: 5.92 (σ = 0.34)

current avg12: 7.79 (σ = 0.62)
best avg12: 6.56 (σ = 0.82)

current avg100: 7.29 (σ = 1.02)
best avg100: 7.29 (σ = 1.02)

Certainly Pbs for single, ao5, ao12 and ao100 there but also got very used to predicting the bottom layer PBL during inspection to minimise PBL recoginition. Lets see if that practice paid off on Saturday morning. I'd be disappointed not to get average PB but single might need a lucky solve.

Skewb next....


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## earth2dan (Nov 2, 2016)

pglewis said:


> Another sledge case that has replaced the more intuitive approach for me, pair upside down in its slot. Trigger friendly.


I've been using this for a long time. I think I learned it from one of Chris Olsens's F2L videos. If you haven't seen them he has some really great F2L algs that are good alternatives to intuitive F2L. Some are too fancy for me but some are pure gold.








mafergut said:


> I hate F turns (sledgehammer flows nice but doing an F' from normal grip is a bit awkward for me and needs a regrip which takes usually as much time as a y rotation).


Try using your right thumb to push up the F'. This F2L alg is smokin fast and requires no regrip if you use your right thumb for the F'. Might not work for some, but it feels so fluid and fast for me.


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## pglewis (Nov 2, 2016)

mafergut said:


> 8 moves long, when my current intuitive approach is 11 moves + 1 rotation. I need to implement this asap. Thanks!



I've been ignoring AUF setup when I count alg moves (thus 7) because any alg I use has a 75% chance of needing an AUF setup.


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## pglewis (Nov 2, 2016)

earth2dan said:


> I've been using this for a long time. I think I learned it from one of Chris Olsens's F2L videos. If you haven't seen them he has some really great F2L algs that are good alternatives to intuitive F2L. Some are too fancy for me but some are pure gold.



I actually added this very one to my "watch later" list last night . It's really dense stuff for me because for every new alg I pause and absorb how it works, rotated versions, etc.


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## pglewis (Nov 2, 2016)

JohnnyReggae said:


> @pglewis, @Selkie, @mafergut ... I can definitely say that the Thunderclap springs in the Yuxin Blue transforms the cube into the best 4x4 for me. Out of the box the cube is rubbish, but with the TC springs it's absolutely amazing. It is now my main over the MeiYue and Mini Aosu. I've done a lot of solves over the last 3 or so weeks of having the cube and have not had a single pop ... not one. I can't get through 2 or 3 solves with my mini Aosu without a pop. The MeiYu pops around every 10 solves or so. If you have a TC and a Yuxin Blue ... swap the springs.



My Yuxin isn't the Blue but the bigger 62mm, but I have two sets of TC springs coming from the Cubicle anyway. I figure I'll give it a shot and see; I'm not sure how much I'll use the Yuxin without some tinkering, it just doesn't want to break-in as nicely as the G4 did on its own even though it turned much better than the G4 did out of the box. 

The other set of TC springs might go in my Mars just to see. It's a perfectly functional cube as is, but who knows.


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## Selkie (Nov 2, 2016)

Selkie said:


> number of times: 100/100
> best time: 3.07
> worst time: 11.92
> 
> ...



What a difference a bit of practice has! Same PB single time on both but the ao100 is 0.6 seconds faster.

2x2
number of times: 100/100
best time: 3.07
worst time: 10.49

current avg5: 6.68 (σ = 0.19)
best avg5: 5.11 (σ = 0.54)

current avg12: 6.54 (σ = 0.67)
best avg12: 5.88 (σ = 1.02)

current avg100: 6.67 (σ = 1.05)
best avg100: 6.67 (σ = 1.05)

@earth2dan - Nice F2L video, think I will be using a few of those after UKC.

@pglewis - The spring swap I heard of was for the blue 4x4 but if I were you I would go for it. Don't know till you try


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## defhacks (Nov 2, 2016)

earth2dan said:


> I've been using this for a long time. I think I learned it from one of Chris Olsens's F2L videos. If you haven't seen them he has some really great F2L algs that are good alternatives to intuitive F2L. Some are too fancy for me but some are pure gold.



I totally agree on both accounts, the pure gold, and the too fancy. I think that particular F2L trick I initially picked up from this video (starts at 2:30).

I think Collin's video tends towards the less fancy and more towards just efficient F2L algs. He's also my role model for sledgehammer execution.







edit: unrelated to f2l, but I'm also a thumbs-up on "Cracking the Cube"


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## pglewis (Nov 2, 2016)

@defhacks: added Collin's vid to my pile now as well. I think I picked up the sledge on the upside-down pair from one of CrazyBadCuber's misc F2L vids. There outta be one definitive place for lots of F2L tricks!


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## mark49152 (Nov 2, 2016)

pglewis said:


> There outta be one definitive place for lots of F2L tricks!


www.algdb.net


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## mark49152 (Nov 3, 2016)

Some competition woes for your amusement...


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## h2f (Nov 3, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> Some competition woes for your amusement...



It's hard for me to "like it". I know how it hurts:


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## Logiqx (Nov 3, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> Some competition woes for your amusement...


Painful to watch. I can't press "like" in response.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk


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## Selkie (Nov 3, 2016)

@mark49152 Ouch mate those are painful. The 4x4 is tricky as it could be internal mech and if it isnt any rough handling could make it internal pop. The 5x5 I would have slammed on the mat on the bottom face = fixed. Who can tell I am a lazy turner and get many lockups  I had a 6x6 internal mech pop at a comp in Weston-super-Mare 4 years ago, luckily I deleted the video long ago  Fingers crossed none at UKC my friend


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## mark49152 (Nov 3, 2016)

@h2f, those cubes hate us sometimes.

@Selkie, I do a lot of table smacking for minor locks and misalignment, but those were jammed solid. Centres had swapped places on the 5x5. On the 4x4, one of the centres had twisted 90 degrees in place.

I blame myself for these, because I lubed these cubes a couple of days before the comp. They had been fine for months but after lubing felt looser and more prone to pops even before these rounds. I had already had to reassemble the 4x4 earlier in the day after an explosion. Moral of the story: don't mess with your cube setup too close to a comp.


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## Selkie (Nov 3, 2016)

@mark49152 - Yeah only thing I do at comp is use Maru Lube. I do not usually use it any other time and consider it 24 hour go faster juice  Got a mammoth bottle with me for UKC (100ml). You should try one of my cubes before and after Maru is applied.


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## mark49152 (Nov 3, 2016)

@Selkie, yes I have Maru. What I used was 10k shock oil. I expected the same effect - go faster juice. My suspicion is that it loosened up some thicker lube deep inside that was helping to stabilise the cubes.


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## mafergut (Nov 3, 2016)

It really, really hurts. Those were pretty hard cube lockups, my friend. and I hate when it happens in the middle of an alg, like a parity because then, even if the lockup can be quickly fixed, I don't know how to continue solving and the cube is all messed up, as it happened on your 4x4 solve


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## muchacho (Nov 3, 2016)

Ao12 PB: 18.177 (was 18.293)

It could have been 17.993 if I had not DNFed the next solve by stopping the timer with the cube being an M' away from being solved 



Spoiler



31378 03-nov-2016 12:39:41 00:18.071 U R2 U B2 U' R2 L2 D' F2 D2 U' F' U L2 U' B2 L2 F L' F2 U2
31377 03-nov-2016 12:39:02 00:16.943 U2 L2 D B2 D' R2 L2 D' B2 D2 F U B2 R F2 R' F D' F' U'
31376 03-nov-2016 12:38:12 00:22.022 L2 D F2 R2 D2 L2 U' R2 F2 D U L F' D2 U2 R' L' B2 L' D' F D2
31375 03-nov-2016 12:37:18 00:19.671 L2 B2 U' R2 B2 R2 D' R2 D2 B2 U' F' D' R F2 U' L2 F D L2 U
31374 03-nov-2016 12:36:40 00:13.662 F2 U' R2 U' R2 B2 D2 U L2 B2 D B' R2 B F' D R2 F L' U'
31373 03-nov-2016 12:35:56 00:18.197 D L2 U F2 L2 B2 D2 L2 U2 R2 D L' D U R F2 U2 F U2 R L'
31372 03-nov-2016 12:35:18 00:17.087 R2 U B2 R2 L2 U' B2 D2 R2 B2 R2 B' L D' R2 D' L2 B' R L2 D2
31371 03-nov-2016 12:34:34 00:20.183 B2 U' R2 U R2 B2 R2 D U2 B2 U' L B' R D2 L' F2 U2 L F L2 U'
31370 03-nov-2016 12:33:52 00:15.735 L2 F2 U' B2 U R2 U2 L2 D' U2 B R' F2 L' U' F' U' F
31369 03-nov-2016 12:33:14 00:15.991 B2 D2 B2 D B2 D R2 D B2 D' U2 R U2 F U2 R2 U L D B U2 L2
31368 03-nov-2016 12:32:33 00:17.877 D' L2 F2 D2 U L2 U' B2 L2 F2 D2 B' U R2 L' U2 F' D2 L2 B' L2 U'
31367 03-nov-2016 12:31:47 00:22.423 F2 L2 F2 R2 U' F2 U' L2 U2 L2 D2 F R2 L F' R' U' R' B2 R F' U'



edit: 2:13 first square-1 solve


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## Selkie (Nov 3, 2016)

Been sent a sneaky preview of my UKCA jacket ready for collection at UKC


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## One Wheel (Nov 3, 2016)

muchacho said:


> edit: 2:13 first square-1 solve



Nice! I did my first timed square-1 solve two days ago, I think it was about 6:13. I've gotten as low as I think a 2:15 single since then. I could do better if I learned a couple more algs, and could reliably remember my EO alg.


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## muchacho (Nov 3, 2016)

Nice to see more square-1 solvers. I'm liking square-1 so far.

I've learned only 4 algs (I use this method: http://www.speedsolving.com/forum/threads/bristol-spring-2010.18217/page-42#post-353378)... but I'm not sure how to use the parity alg, because it permute 2 opposite edges on top but also the 4 on the bottom, I can finish the solve from there (than solve took me 3:32) but I'm sure that's not the way it should work. Maybe I'm supposed to detect parity before the last steps... @Lid @Selkie help!


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## One Wheel (Nov 3, 2016)

muchacho said:


> Nice to see more square-1 solvers. I'm liking square-1 so far.
> 
> I've learned only 4 algs (I use this method: http://www.speedsolving.com/forum/threads/bristol-spring-2010.18217/page-42#post-353378)... but I'm not sure how to use the parity alg, because it permute 2 opposite edges on top but also the 4 on the bottom, I can finish the solve from there (than solve took me 3:32) but I'm sure that's not the way it should work. Maybe I'm supposed to detect parity before the last steps... @Lid @Selkie help!



The parity alg I use only switches the UF and UB edges:
/(3,3)/(1,0)/(-2,-2)/(2,0)/(2,2)/(-1,0)/(-3,-3)/(-2,0)/(3,3)/(3,0)/(-1,-1)/(-3,0)/(1,1)/(-4,-3).

I don't remember exactly where I got it: a website that comes up when you Google how to solve a square-1, or a related term.


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## muchacho (Nov 3, 2016)

That looks so long and scary, I'll try to make mine work... or I'll use this one I've just found in http://www.cubezone.be/square1step5.html:
(UR UL)
/ (3,3) / (-1,0) / (2,-4) / (4,-2) / (0,-2) / (-4,2) / (1,-5) / (3,0) / (3,3) / (3,0)


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## h2f (Nov 3, 2016)

I was thinking about doing some sq1 solves too. I've learnt some algs from pdf document on this forum - U perms both down and up, H perm and Zperm - and few algs from badmephisto page. For the shape making I follow the intuition and Brandon Lin tutorial.

Have you seen Lid's page: http://hem.bredband.net/_zlv_/rubiks/?


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## Selkie (Nov 3, 2016)

@muchacho - Glad to see you are learning Square-1. @Lid is far, far superior to me on Square-1 but I'll offer my 2 cents anyway...

That parity alg in the link is very short for parity and quite easy to learn but it does have the by product of doing some other EP as well. As you quite rightly say it does an H perm on the bottom and an opposite swap on the top.

If you wish to use that alg then my recommendation for a beginner method would be do cube shape, do CO and EO to leave cubeshape of each separate colour on top and bottom then quickly look at top and bottom. They are going to loom like Ua, Ub, H or Z PLLs or are going to look impossible (like you need to do PLL parity on 4x4) then do the following


Top and Bottom Ua, Ub, Z or H - Solve one side, flip solve other side (No parity)
Top and Botton both not PLLs - Perform alg that does a 2 edge cycle on top and on bottom to make both legal PLLs [(1,0)/(0,3)/(-1,-1)/(1,-2)/(-1,0)] then do as above No parity)
Any other case - Do parity alg and you will have one of the two again
Might sound a bit complex. I personally use a two adjacent edge parity alg and did use an opposite toi till I forgot it but either effect bottom layer so I do a combination similar to above with those

Most of the algs I use I learned from this guide back in the day http://www.kungfoomanchu.com/guides/andy-klise-square-1.pdf but as I said I am no Square-1 expert and someone might have better advice mate 

So lifted straight from the PDF my adjacent parity swap is:-
/(-3,0)/(0,3)/(0,-3)/(0,3)/(2,0)/(0,2)/(-2,0)/(4,0)/(0,-2)/(0,2)/(-1,4)/(0,-3)/(0,3)


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## muchacho (Nov 3, 2016)

Thanks both!

@h2f, that page is awesome, but I'll try not to learn more algs, or I would forget them soon 

@Selkie, that may be a good beginners method, but I guess not for me, I have no idea of how to recognize a legal PLL


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## Shaky Hands (Nov 3, 2016)

@Selkie and other Clock-solvers. This lunchtime I got a PB Clock single of 10.99 (previous best 14.87.)

Guess I'd have to call this a lucky scramble, right?


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## biscuit (Nov 3, 2016)

Shaky Hands said:


> @Selkie and other Clock-solvers. This lunchtime I got a PB Clock single of 10.99 (previous best 14.87.)
> 
> Guess I'd have to call this a lucky scramble, right?



Wow! That's an amazing scramble!


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## Selkie (Nov 3, 2016)

@muchacho - Do you never get the PLLs of Ua, Ub, Z and H on L6E in Roux? If not they are on the wiki. Basiclly by that stage you are just changing the place of the edges (smaller Square-1 slices) by that stage and the sides will look like one of those PLLs or not 

@Shaky Hands - Lovely scramble sir. I wouldn't call it 'lucky' but it is a good point we call a CFOP solve lucky if you skip say OLL or PLL but how many dials skips makes a lucky clock solve? Good question


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## muchacho (Nov 3, 2016)

Ah sorry that PLLs, yeah, I get them in Roux solves, but still I would need to learn to recognize them.

I think I've learned the last alg I'm going to learn for square-1, unless it likes me too much and I also get fast... unlikely.


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## newtonbase (Nov 3, 2016)

Shaky Hands said:


> @Selkie and other Clock-solvers. This lunchtime I got a PB Clock single of 10.99 (previous best 14.87.)
> 
> Guess I'd have to call this a lucky scramble, right?


That looks a great scramble . I really should do a bit of clock practice before the weekend .


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## h2f (Nov 3, 2016)

muchacho said:


> Thanks both!
> 
> @h2f, that page is awesome, but I'll try not to learn more algs, or I would forget them soon



I like this one page: https://www.speedsolving.com/forum/threads/square-1-full-ep-pdf.56094/

I've learnt U perm from it - H and Z are intuitive. 



Selkie said:


> Top and Botton both not PLLs - Perform alg that does a 2 edge cycle on top and on bottom to make both legal PLLs [(1,0)/(0,3)/(-1,-1)/(1,-2)/(-1,0)] then do as above No parity)



Nice alg. Looks like the one I use from badmephisto page.


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## pglewis (Nov 3, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> www.algdb.net



Yes, but there is little or no annotation about the algs (that I've seen), just a pile of algs. Plus some of the tricks I'm looking to dig into are special case, like the triple sexy case with different destinations I recently picked up in here. Nonetheless, algdb and the wiki are the first two open tabs for me while I'm working on F2L. 



mark49152 said:


> Some competition woes for your amusement...



Wow, that's hard to watch. You handled it incredibly well, at least outwardly/vocally . Looks like the same brain hijack in action that I experienced when I didn't understand about resetting the timer. The unexpected emergency situation short-circuited the logic center and wouldn't immediately let go even after the emergency was over. 



h2f said:


> It's hard for me to "like it". I know how it hurts:



I never saw it coming  What luck.


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## pglewis (Nov 3, 2016)

Just had an incidental untimed solve that very well may have been a mid 20 lol. Or 40, sometimes I can gauge well sometimes not. Unplanned x-cross, last pair was already joined, OCLL + A Perm. #alwayswhenthetimerisntgoing


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## One Wheel (Nov 4, 2016)

muchacho said:


> That looks so long and scary, I'll try to make mine work... or I'll use this one I've just found in http://www.cubezone.be/square1step5.html:
> (UR UL)
> / (3,3) / (-1,0) / (2,-4) / (4,-2) / (0,-2) / (-4,2) / (1,-5) / (3,0) / (3,3) / (3,0)



Like most algs it's not half as bad as it looks. After (-3,-3) you're back to cube shape, and it finishes up with some CO and an easy EO.


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## defhacks (Nov 4, 2016)

pglewis said:


> Yes, but there is little or no annotation about the algs (that I've seen), just a pile of algs. Plus some of the tricks I'm looking to dig into are special case, like the triple sexy case with different destinations I recently picked up in here. Nonetheless, algdb and the wiki are the first two open tabs for me while I'm working on F2L.



Have you already stumbled on macky's F2L pages at cubefreak.net ? Different slots, special cases, comments, sounds like it might be just the ticket (other than the broken images). 

Going through archive.org's wayback machine can fix some of the broken images, but not all of them
e.g. http://web.archive.org/web/20120226115940/http://cubefreak.net/speed/advancedf2l/standard.php

Depending how determined/techy you are, it may also be helpful to note that mirroring the html locally and running visualcube at /v/ restores the site to it's full glory.

I have emailed the maintainer (macky) to try and help get things fixed up as he doesn't seem to have recent activity on the forums here, but haven't heard back yet.


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## mark49152 (Nov 4, 2016)

defhacks said:


> I have emailed the maintainer (macky) to try and help get things fixed up as he doesn't seem to have recent activity on the forums here, but haven't heard back yet.


There's a note on his site that images are broken, so he knows about it, and the note has been there for at least 4 years so I assume he's not planning on fixing it.

Viktor Danilov's F2L resources are excellent too, for anyone who hasn't found them yet.


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## pglewis (Nov 4, 2016)

defhacks said:


> Depending how determined/techy you are, it may also be helpful to note that mirroring the html locally and running visualcube at /v/ restores the site to it's full glory.



Yeah that was a frustrating find, being almost exactly what I was searching for but borken. I'm actually a back end web developer for a WordPress plugin so I should have thought to look into that. That'll work well enough for me to extract and get into a Google sheet for safe-keeping, good thinking. 



mark49152 said:


> Viktor Danilov's F2L resources are excellent too, for anyone who hasn't found them yet.



I don't think I've seen that yet, but noted for later reference, thanks!


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## pglewis (Nov 4, 2016)

Here's a typical solve on the faster side for me at the moment. I was just quickly experimenting with my phone's camera and managed to hit a sub 40 right off the bat. Obvious where to focus with all the stop and start. Some random notes:

* You can see my weird dyslexia in action while scrambling. If I consult my brain on clockwise/counterclockwise and it can't come up with an answer quickly it just provides a random answer lol. I do this and correct at least twice during the scramble. 

* Most of my focus for the past few of weeks has been cutting down on cube rotations and being more efficient with my pairs (still not focused on blind pairs, but that's soon). This is beginning to pay off, I really had no business getting a sub 40 with that much staring time. Still some bad habits creeping in, that incredibly slow y2 was unneeded and done before I had any idea where I really needed to rotate. Reasonably proud that I did the cross without a rotation though. 

* I haven't even started spamming TPS, turn speed is just natural progression. I'm still way out-turning my lookahead, in this case to the point of practically no lookahead at all on the first 2 pairs. Blind pair practice should help tremendously it's just that my actual F2L cases are still in flux. I'll also be getting in the habit of turning slower during F2L so my speed matches my lookahead. 

Probably painful to watch and/or make you nostalgic for the days where it was obvious where to shed lots of time. Cube is my trusty Cubicle Thunderclap.


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## biscuit (Nov 4, 2016)

pglewis said:


> Here's a typical solve on the faster side for me at the moment. I was just quickly experimenting with my phone's camera and managed to hit a sub 40 right off the bat. Obvious where to focus with all the stop and start. Some random notes:
> 
> * You can see my weird dyslexia in action while scrambling. If I consult my brain on clockwise/counterclockwise and it can't come up with an answer quickly it just provides a random answer lol. I do this and correct at least twice during the scramble.
> 
> ...



The video is private FYI.


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## pglewis (Nov 4, 2016)

biscuit said:


> The video is private FYI.



Yeah, that was intentional since I won't likely keep it up all that long. Should still be viewable though, right?


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## Logiqx (Nov 4, 2016)

pglewis said:


> Yeah, that was intentional since I won't likely keep it up all that long. Should still be viewable though, right?


You need to make it "unlisted" for us to see it via a link. Unlisted means that only people with the link can get to it.

Private means only you can play it.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk


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## pglewis (Nov 4, 2016)

Logiqx said:


> You need to make it "unlisted" for us to see it via a link. Unlisted means that only people with the link can get to it.
> 
> Private means only you can play it.



Doh! I knew that at one point but forgot which was which. Fixed, thanks.


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## pipkiksass (Nov 4, 2016)

So I've never really done much slow turning practice, mainly because I've never had time. I used to cube for maybe 45 minutes a day on my lunch breaks at work. I'm currently on long-term sick leave, so following @Selkie's suggestion t'other day, I've been indulging in some slow turning practice. 

I still leave my lookahead behind most of the time, but I think I'm now comfortably back to sub-20 (maybe). My The "I quit / pause / return / change / etc." thread post was on the 6th of October, and I averaged 21.25. I reckon I could squeeze an Ao50 in under 20 seconds if I can concentrate, and don't screw up/lock up too much.

Still learning OLLs, and occasionally confusing some of my new ones, but getting there. I've finally nailed the cross, I'm finding cross solutions much better than previously, but still don't play my first pair, which I need to start doing. 

Never know, I might dust off my 4x4 or 5x5 in a week or so! 

@MarcelP, good to see you back on the Substep Comp.


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## Logiqx (Nov 4, 2016)

@mark49152 @bubbagrub

What are you guys doing for food tonight?

I'm currently chilling out at the venue.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk


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## mark49152 (Nov 4, 2016)

Logiqx said:


> What are you guys doing for food tonight? I'm currently chilling out at the venue.


Awesome, are you attending tonight? I didn't see you registered for either event. Fancy doing some MBLD judging? 

I have already eaten and will be at the venue soon.


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## Logiqx (Nov 4, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> Awesome, are you attending tonight? I didn't see you registered for either event. Fancy doing some MBLD judging?
> 
> I have already eaten and will be at the venue soon.


I'm in the restaurant waiting for my food and practicing 4x4. I'll catch you later... happy to judge MBLD.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk


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## moralsh (Nov 4, 2016)

Good luck Mark and Adam today (did I forget anyone?) And same for the rest tomorrow, keep us posted!


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## pipkiksass (Nov 4, 2016)

Have a great time guys, looking forward to some good footage! 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## newtonbase (Nov 4, 2016)

Nothing on Cubecomps yet. I assume that the pub is taking priority over data entry. 

I'll be on the road by 6 tomorrow and there before 9 hopefully .


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## Logiqx (Nov 4, 2016)

Mark got 8 / 10. One cube was messed up by a slip during execution and one was off by 3 corners.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk


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## newtonbase (Nov 4, 2016)

Logiqx said:


> Mark got 8 / 10. One cube was messed up by a slip during execution and one was off by 3 corners.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk


Excellent . See you tomorrow . 

My pre-comp practice today was 2 blind attempts in the car before work. Not ideal. Best get to sleep , I'm getting up in about 6 hours.


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## Jason Green (Nov 4, 2016)

@pglewis that was a bit nostalgic and fun.  I noticed it does get harder to stay motivated the slower your progress gets, that reminds me of how I used be constantly anxious to practice.

Jealous of everyone at comp, good luck!!


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## h2f (Nov 4, 2016)

@mark49152 

Great!


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## Jason Green (Nov 4, 2016)

h2f said:


> @mark49152
> 
> Great!


Oh yes and great job @mark49152!


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## mark49152 (Nov 4, 2016)

Thanks all. I have done my customary MBLD video post mortem just to make myself feel bad. This time, it was a memo mistake! I memoed KC instead of CK despite reviewing the cube twice! Execution on that cube was perfect. So as usual after MBLD, I feel like an idiot 

I fumbled two of the first three cubes because my hands were cold. One was a fail, the other I escaped with a +2.


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## David Zemdegs (Nov 5, 2016)

http://cubecomps.com/live.php?cid=1809&cat=1&rnd=1
I achieved three goals. I got a sub 2, I didnt get a DNF and I didnt come last!


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## Jason Green (Nov 5, 2016)

David Zemdegs said:


> http://cubecomps.com/live.php?cid=1809&cat=1&rnd=1
> I achieved three goals. I got a sub 2, I didnt get a DNF and I didnt come last!


Nice job David! How long ago did you learn? Do you think you have the bug enough to try and get faster, or was it just your goal to compete?


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## Selkie (Nov 5, 2016)

@David Zemdegs - Nicely done 

@mark49152 - Great result sir

At the UK brethren see you about 9am. Setting off shortly


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## David Zemdegs (Nov 5, 2016)

Jason Green said:


> Nice job David! How long ago did you learn? Do you think you have the bug enough to try and get faster, or was it just your goal to compete?


Feliks taught me on the plane on the way to the European championships in July. I'll keep at it and hopefully improve a little each time.


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## bubbagrub (Nov 5, 2016)

Logiqx said:


> @mark49152 @bubbagrub
> 
> What are you guys doing for food tonight?
> 
> ...


Ah, sorry. . . Missed this until just now. I'd hoped to do FMC but the traffic was worse than I expected and so we didn't make it in time. Going down for breakfast in a few minutes. 

Congrats to Mark. . . Surely a place on the podium with that result. . . ?


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## mark49152 (Nov 5, 2016)

bubbagrub said:


> Congrats to Mark. . . Surely a place on the podium with that result. . . ?


Cheers . .. silver


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## moralsh (Nov 5, 2016)

@mark49152 Huge congrats, awesome stuff!

@David Zemdegs Good job! if you keep just solving casual every now and then, you'll get to the minute barrier in no time, getting close to your son might be a little harder, though  

everyone else, good luck, smash some PBs

I had a 15.99 Ao5 yesterday, don't know if it is PB but I would love to get one of those official xD


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## Logiqx (Nov 5, 2016)

So far so good...

4x4x4 - 1:17.93 1:27.24 1:17.83 1:12.98 1:10.82 = PB *1:16.25* average / PB *1:10.82* single
2x2x2 - 7.04 5.77 4.45 5.33 5.26 = PB *5.45* average / PB *4.45* single


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## pglewis (Nov 5, 2016)

So many of my new cubing heroes at comp today! Great job @mark49152 and @Logiqx


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## pipkiksass (Nov 5, 2016)

Been trying to keep up on cubecomps, but this thread seems to be more up to date!! [emoji6] 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Selkie (Nov 5, 2016)

Real mixed bag from me today. Have to be pleased with 9 PBs but some epic fails and sub par solving. Best of the bunch was Megaminx with a 1:49.xy single and 2:08.xy average. Congratulations on all the PBs guys 

Best bit of the day by far catching up with @Shaky Hands , @mark49152 , @Logiqx , @newtonbase and @bubbagrub - Need to try and get an oldies group photo tomorrow gents. What do you think? 

Sorry I had to rush off to pick up wife, son and his girlfriend from elsewhere in Bristol.

.... Just editing the Mega average, I'll upload and link that now.


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## Jason Green (Nov 5, 2016)

Yes let's see a pic of the group please!


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## bubbagrub (Nov 5, 2016)

Selkie said:


> Real mixed bag from me today. Have to be pleased with 9 PBs but some epic fails and sub par solving. Best of the bunch was Megaminx with a 1:49.xy single and 2:08.xy average. Congratulations on all the PBs guys



Very impressive Megaminx solves, Chris! And well done everyone else on the various PBs. I think Mark's still the only one with a podium, though... 



Selkie said:


> Best bit of the day by far catching up with @Shaky Hands , @mark49152 , @Logiqx , @newtonbase and @bubbagrub - Need to try and get an oldies group photo tomorrow gents. What do you think?


Yes -- really nice catching up with you all again, and meeting you for the first time, Chris.

A group photo sounds good... We'll just edit out the zimmer-frames afterwards...


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## h2f (Nov 5, 2016)

Selkie said:


> Real mixed bag from me today. Have to be pleased with 9 PBs but some epic fails and sub par solving. Best of the bunch was Megaminx with a 1:49.xy single and 2:08.xy average. Congratulations on all the PBs guys
> 
> Best bit of the day by far catching up with @Shaky Hands , @mark49152 , @Logiqx , @newtonbase and @bubbagrub - Need to try and get an oldies group photo tomorrow gents. What do you think?
> 
> ...



Congrats for all of you! 

@mark49152 2nd in 4bld and so close to 1st place!


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## Shaky Hands (Nov 5, 2016)

No PB's for me today after general indifference to 2x2, a pop in 4x4 and making mistakes in all 5 Clock solves. Compensation is a FMC PB last night. Still hoping for 3x3 average PB tomorrow.

@Selkie, sure, photo sounds good.


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## Selkie (Nov 5, 2016)

My Megaminx average in Round 1 of UK Championship 2016 day one today as promised. 2:08.33 average with a 1:49.83 Single. Was great to get sub 2:15 cut on the first solve which is probably what relaxed me so much in this event. Plenty of nerves in others for some reason. Roll on 5x5 and 3x3 tomorrow.


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## David Zemdegs (Nov 5, 2016)

My very first competition solve:


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## bubbagrub (Nov 5, 2016)

David Zemdegs said:


> My very first competition solve:



Very nice! Thanks for sharing. Just wondering: Has Feliks taught you to be colour neutral, or do you always do an orange cross? Also, looks as though he's taught you F2L instead of inserting the corners and second row edges separately -- is that right? 

Also, great shirt!


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## David Zemdegs (Nov 5, 2016)

bubbagrub said:


> Very nice! Thanks for sharing. Just wondering: Has Feliks taught you to be colour neutral, or do you always do an orange cross? Also, looks as though he's taught you F2L instead of inserting the corners and second row edges separately -- is that right?
> 
> Also, great shirt!


I decided at the outset to force myself to be colour neutral. I didnt do the F2L at first but now I do that 'intuitively'. That's the main area where I think I can get faster.


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## Jason Green (Nov 5, 2016)

David Zemdegs said:


> I decided at the outset to force myself to be colour neutral. I didnt do the F2L at first but now I do that 'intuitively'. That's the main area where I think I can get faster.


That's just really cool to see! I'm about 2 to 3 times worse when I try color neutral.


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## mark49152 (Nov 5, 2016)

Nice first solve @David Zemdegs, and yeah that pyraminx shirt 



h2f said:


> @mark49152 2nd in 4bld and so close to 1st place!


Yeah I screwed up centre memo and had to do it again, which wasted more than 10 seconds. There's always an "if only"


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## h2f (Nov 5, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> Nice first solve @David Zemdegs, and yeah that pyraminx shirt
> 
> 
> Yeah I screwed up centre memo and had to do it again, which wasted more than 10 seconds. There's always an "if only"



Yeah, there's always "if"...Congrats!

@David Zemdegs Nice to see another "oldie" competing with his son... 

That's me and my son


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## Selkie (Nov 5, 2016)

@mark49152 - Two silver's at nationals though mate. Making us oldies proud 

@David Zemdegs - Great solve and liking the colour neutral from the start. Always wish I had. Look forward to seeing you progress.


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## newtonbase (Nov 6, 2016)

Well done @David Zemdegs 

Great meeting up with everyone today. 

Not great results for me but that's what happens when you only practise one event . I somehow got a 2x2 average PB though I nearly lost it due to scruffy handwriting from the judge - I'll be checking the sheet more carefully in future. Looking forward to day 2, especially the oldies team photo.


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## Logiqx (Nov 6, 2016)

David Zemdegs said:


> My very first competition solve:



I enjoyed watching that solve... you've got the best turning style I've seen for a 2 minute solver!

Felix has taught you well and set you up with some great habits. Hopefully sub-1 before too long.


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## Logiqx (Nov 6, 2016)

Weird day. Priority was a sub-30 average for OH. I got a 28.82 average... shame that was 3x3 2H. My OH average was 34.97. Weird how I can forget how to solve overnight.

It'll be a miracle if I do something decent in 5x5 today!

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk


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## h2f (Nov 6, 2016)

Logiqx said:


> Weird day. Priority was a sub-30 average for OH. I got a 28.82 average... shame that was 3x3 2H. My OH average was 34.97. Weird how I can forget how to solve overnight.
> 
> It'll be a miracle if I do something decent in 5x5 today!
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk



It just happens. I say nothing wise but that's true.


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## newtonbase (Nov 6, 2016)

I've made it back from the UK Championships and had a great time with the oldies. 

Results:
2x2 11.23 PB average from nowhere. Some dodgy handwriting from a judge made this show as a 13 originally. 
3x3 sub 30 average PB and 25ish single PB. First solve was 39 and 2nd was 32 so final result was a nice surprise . 
4x4 rubbish
5x5 3:29 single PB (1st solve was 4:33.333) . My previous 3:37 was a huge overall PB so this was very unexpected 
OH 1:03 PB must be the @Logiqx effect 
Clock rubbish
Skewb 40 something for both solves. First ever timed solves
Pyraminx rubbish as always 
3BLD - oh dear. Forgot edges memo during 1st solve so quit. Made errors during 2nd solve so quit. Finished 3rd but completely failed (slow too) . This is all I've really practiced but I couldn't focus on the day. 
Overall the results were good but not what I could have predicted . 
The social side was great and I'm looking forward to the group photo. Also nice to meet @Selkie for the first time .


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## mafergut (Nov 6, 2016)

So envious of you guys that could go to another comp and meet each other face to face. Congrats on your PBs.


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## pglewis (Nov 6, 2016)

Some new puzzle impressions:

Cubicle Premium Valk 3: As usual it was a little gummy right out of the cellophane but the lube broke in quickly. After only a few dozen solves it got really fast, enough to consider tightening the tensions just a touch. Gonna leave it alone and see if I should adjust me rather than the cube. Don't know if it'll dethrone the Thunderclap but it suits me well enough that it might. 

QiYi WuShuang 5x5: After my first 4x4 I realized I'll likely go stickerless on all my bigger cubes from here on out, so that's the one I got. Feels fantastic to me and makes me wonder why there doesn't seem to be a 4x4 this good right out of the box. 

ShengShou Skewb: I can barely turn a skewb, much less solve, much less speedsolve. Seems to turn really nicely for me, for what that's worth. Attractive price-point.


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## Logiqx (Nov 6, 2016)

Putting aside all of my solves today, I had a great time and really enjoyed meeting up with everyone (young and old).

I've just looked at my 3x3 videos and they've made me feel a little better. Cross + F2L were all typical of circa-17 second solves but there were some absolute horrors during my LL.

The first 2 solves were ruined by using the CFOPOP method. OPOP means orient, permute, orient, permute where you randomly destroy your F2L then fix it again, taking you back to the previous step. The third solve was CFOO where the first orientation step was catastrophic and I gave up after a second failed OLL.

I'll put it down to extreme tiredness. I could barely keep my eyes open as I started to drive home and I had to dose up on caffeine to make it back safely. I guess I'll be awake for hours now...

I'll upload my disaster video tomorrow. Mark's recent upload has nothing on my painful footage!


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## pglewis (Nov 6, 2016)

Logiqx said:


> Putting aside all of my solves today, I had a great time and really enjoyed meeting up with everyone (young and old).
> 
> I've just looked at my 3x3 videos and they've made me feel a little better. Cross + F2L were all typical of circa-17 second solves but there were some absolute horrors during my LL.
> 
> ...



In the interest of balance, the Universe had to sap some of others' mojo for Mats to get that single.


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## newtonbase (Nov 6, 2016)

pglewis said:


> In the interest of balance, the Universe had to sap some of others' mojo for Mats to get that single.


Does that mean I get to blame Kaijin Lin for my 3BLD?


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## Lid (Nov 6, 2016)

Congratz on all of your comp results boys...

Here it's snowing 

Square-1 PB!
Average of 12: *17.136*
1. 13.795 (0, 5) / (-3, 3) / (-5, -2) / (3, 0) / (3, 0) / (0, -3) / (-4, 0) / (-3, 0) / (0, -3) / (0, -3) / (-2, 0) / (-2, 0) / (2, -5) / (-4, 0)
2. 19.834[p] (0, -4) / (-5, -2) / (-4, -4) / (-3, 0) / (3, 0) / (-2, 0) / (6, -3) / (1, 0) / (-4, 0) / (-2, 0) / (-3, -4)
3. 14.716 (3, -1) / (-2, -2) / (6, 0) / (0, -3) / (-3, 0) / (3, 0) / (-1, -3) / (0, -3) / (3, -1) / (0, -2) / (0, -2) / (-1, 0) / (2, 0)
4. (22.507[p]) (-2, 0) / (-3, 0) / (0, -3) / (-1, -1) / (-2, -5) / (3, 0) / (0, -1) / (3, 0) / (6, -3) / (6, -4) / (6, -4) / (-4, -3) /
5. 17.825 (1, 0) / (3, 0) / (0, -3) / (0, -3) / (3, 0) / (-4, -1) / (-2, -3) / (3, 0) / (0, -3) / (4, 0) / (3, 0) / (6, -4) / (-4, 0) /
6. 14.950 (4, 0) / (0, 3) / (6, -3) / (-4, -4) / (3, 0) / (6, -2) / (0, -3) / (-2, 0) / (-4, 0) / (4, -3) / (-2, -3) / (4, 0) / (-1, 0)
7. 19.903 (0, 2) / (-2, 4) / (-1, -1) / (6, -3) / (3, -2) / (-3, 0) / (0, -1) / (-4, 0) / (0, -2) / (0, -5) / (2, -3) / (5, 0) / (0, -5)
8. 15.509 (4, 3) / (5, -4) / (6, 0) / (0, -3) / (-2, -2) / (-4, -3) / (0, -3) / (4, 0) / (5, 0) / (0, -5) / (4, -1) /
9. 18.132 (-3, -4) / (0, -3) / (0, -3) / (-2, -5) / (0, -3) / (3, -1) / (0, -3) / (5, 0) / (0, -3) / (0, -3) / (2, -2) / (-4, -4) / (-5, 0)
10. 18.971 (-5, 3) / (-1, -4) / (1, -2) / (2, -1) / (4, 0) / (3, 0) / (-3, 0) / (5, 0) / (1, 0) / (-5, -2) / (0, -1) / (-3, 0)
11. (12.556) (0, 5) / (-3, 0) / (3, 0) / (4, -5) / (0, -3) / (-4, -3) / (-3, 0) / (-2, 0) / (-1, -3) / (0, -4) / (-3, 0) / (-3, -2)
12. 17.720[p] (0, 5) / (-2, -5) / (0, -3) / (2, -1) / (4, 0) / (0, -3) / (-1, 0) / (-2, 0) / (2, 0) / (-3, 0) / (-2, 0) / (5, 0) / (2, 0) /


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## Jason Green (Nov 7, 2016)

Finally edited my sub 20 average together.


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## One Wheel (Nov 7, 2016)

Almost three months of work, albeit not the most diligent work, and I just got my second successful blind solve! Thanks for all the help! I'll get one or two more, and start timing them and learn M2. This one was a scramble from csTimer, but I'm just laying in bed and held the cube under the blankets to solve. No time, but I think it was roughly 15 minutes.


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## newtonbase (Nov 7, 2016)

One Wheel said:


> Almost three months of work, albeit not the most diligent work, and I just got my second successful blind solve! Thanks for all the help! I'll get one or two more, and start timing them and learn M2. This one was a scramble from csTimer, but I'm just laying in bed and held the cube under the blankets to solve. No time, but I think it was roughly 15 minutes.


Congratulations . My first success was in bed too.


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## Logiqx (Nov 7, 2016)

Note to self... CFOFOPFOP is not a good method


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## moralsh (Nov 7, 2016)

@Jason Green Nice average! more will come 

I have another 2 sub 20 averages to edit I hope to get to it this week.

@One Wheel you'll get better fast, my first success was in a train in something like 20 minutes

@Logiqx I just can't hit the like button watching your average, Curious choice of methods you did there


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## pipkiksass (Nov 7, 2016)

Logiqx said:


> Note to self... CFOFOPFOP is not a good method


My lip-reading is quite good, and I can see why you censored that video!!! 

I think, if I ever attend a comp, this is pretty much how my solves would go.


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## Shaky Hands (Nov 7, 2016)

@Logiqx, your face says it all in that vid. Pain and torment.


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## Selkie (Nov 7, 2016)

Well overall I would have to say a very disappointing competition for me as far as solves go. Looking through my results very little was on a par with home times currently. Nice singles for 3x3, Clock and Pyraminx but far too many nerves and far too many failed averages. Megaminx was really the only event where overall I matched my home averages and got a nice single too.

That aside, in all honesty the comp was so good and the company was so awesome this matters less to me that at any other comp. Was awesome to spend some time with you guys. Can't wait for the next one.

As you might have gathered we did get a photo of the 6 thread regulars there. The photo was taken by another cuber so will be sent over in due course to @Logiqx

@Logiqx - CFOPOP and CFOO  Get them on the Wiki mate  - And thanks for updating the ranking so quickly!

@pglewis - Think you might be on to something with the sapping of mojo!

@Lid - Fantastic Sq-1 average. Decided to start learning optimal Cubeshape myself, will go on the list for the next couple of month "To Do"

@Jason Green - Huge congratulations on the sub 20, well, well deserved


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## Selkie (Nov 7, 2016)

This was a competition PB single for 3x3 with a little added frustration at the end. This one didn't quite need the muting that Mike's did


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## mark49152 (Nov 7, 2016)

@Logiqx, that was painful to watch - and judge! Such a departure from your awesome form at Guildford...

My mini comp report:-

I practised nothing but BLD in the weeks leading up to this, and I had goals in all four BLD events.

MBLD: my goal was 9/10 for a PB and a move up the rankings, but I got only 8/10. Post mortem earlier in the thread. It was nice to get a silver trophy for it though, and that makes a better memory than some transient ranking.

4BLD: practised this more than anything, and am averaging ~6:40 with maybe 50% success rate. On my first attempt, my memo deserted me half way through, and after sitting for over 3 minutes trying to recall it, I bailed out. Second attempt, I went carefully to try to ensure a success, and got 9:22. Third attempt, sped up and got a 7:29. Slower than at home, but official PB by almost 2 minutes, and another silver.

5BLD: am down to about 20 minutes at home, but DNF in both attempts here. My brain was getting tired.

3BLD: also done lots of practice and am around 1:20 at home, but with better times when I really focus, so my goal was sub-1:20. First solve was awful but I had been given Mark A's cube so got an extra attempt. I didn't notice until I was turning and the different feel really threw me. Second and third were OK, just not fast enough (1:28, 1:25). Watching the video, I really need to work on execution speed as well as memo. On one of them, U2 would have solved the top four corners, and if I had been able to think quicker I'd have done that and swapped the edges in memo. On the fourth (extra), I stumbled on edge memo, and since it was not going to be fast, I played it safe and went for the mean. 1:47 solve, 1:33 mean. Fully with corner comms so I think I can say I've completed that transition.

Speed events: Similar performance to usual, nothing remarkable. Finally got sub-7 average in 2x2 

Here's the 4BLD:-


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## mafergut (Nov 7, 2016)

pipkiksass said:


> My lip-reading is quite good, and I can see why you censored that video!!!
> 
> I think, if I ever attend a comp, this is pretty much how my solves would go.


Exactly my thought when I saw the video.


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## Logiqx (Nov 7, 2016)

Saturday was a good day for achievements. My 2x2 result now matches my global average.


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## Shaky Hands (Nov 7, 2016)

Quick rundown of the comp for me:

Friday
*FMC*. Just found a CFOP solution that would be a PB and concentrated on writing it down correctly. Triple-checked my notation and got my PB. About 35 minutes or so. Ended up finishing 6th after over half the competitors got a DNF.

Satuday
*2x2*. No practice since previous comp. Did bad. Wasn't fussed.
*Pyraminx*. Didn't get around to learning this. Would have done so on the Friday night if I hadn't already got a PB at FMC. This is more of a backup event that I register for to try to get a PB at each comp. (Streak is still alive at 9 competitions.)
*4x4*. Pop in the first solve as soon as I started on Hoya-Cross. There's no way I can rebuild a 4x4 in quick time, so I DNF'ed the attempt. Second attempt was about 1.5 seconds over my competition PB. Hoping to crack that at the next comp.
*Clock*. Literally messed up every attempt and got a DNF average. Best single was over 5 seconds longer than my competition PB. Missed opportunity.

Sunday
*3x3*. Started off OK but ended up with a counting 28s solve after my 5th solve was so screwy I inserted 6 F2L pairs, which messed up my aim of a PB average.
*3x3 OH*. Token effort giving an average first solve and a second solve that I gave up on.
*3x3 BLD*. Probably did memo in record time here, but no success. Off by a long margin.
*5x5*. My 5x5 cube went missing before the event, which is annoying but my own fault for not keeping it more secure. Borrowed a 5x5 from @Selkie (cheers guv) which worked smoothly. Second solve was within 3 seconds of my competition PB single. Still my favourite event.

Overall, I think I underperformed but I still managed to get a PB in something. Plus when I consider that at last year's UK Championships my 3x3 average was 53.81, I'm happy with the overall improvements I've made in the past 12 months.

Once again, great to see the Older Cubing gang. Think it will now be 2017 when I see most of you again, so enjoy the festive season, folks!


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## Selkie (Nov 7, 2016)

@mark49152 - Lovely 4BLD there Mark, gives me great motivation for my Christmas BLD project (although that is just to face my nemesis of 3BLD) and once again congratulations on 2 podiums. Uk Champ in an event next year? ;-)

@Logiqx - Was looking forward to seeing your 2x2 R1 video. Great solves and grats on reaching r2 

@Shaky Hands - You are more than welcome my friend. Did you Yuxin not turn up in the end? Disappointing when that happens!


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## Shaky Hands (Nov 7, 2016)

Selkie said:


> @Shaky Hands - You are more than welcome my friend. Did you Yuxin not turn up in the end? Disappointing when that happens!



No luck unfortunately. Will see what Marty has in stock.


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## Logiqx (Nov 7, 2016)

*Saturday*
*2x2* *R1 *- Target was sub-6 average, ideally sub-5.5. Result was *5.45* *average* despite a few pauses and bad AUFs
*Pyra* - Two "maintenance" practice sessions since Guildford to maintain a sub-10 average. *9.66 average
4x4 *- Target was sub-1:20 average and sub-1:10 single. *1:16.25 average* and *1:10.82 single 
2x2 R2 - *Target was a fast single but I blew up the average (*8.57*) whilst trying. I think I was too tired by that time as well.

*Sunday*
*OH* - Target was sub-30 average (~28 globally) but I was unable to focus. *34.97 average* and *29.51 single
3x3 - *The video speaks for itself. *28.82 average* for 2H is slower than my OH global average!
*5x5 - *Target was a 2:40 single. PBs in practice (2:25 single, 2:34 Ao5, 2:38 Ao12) but failures in competition. I was struggling in the low light during the first solve which resulted in a *3:09*. The second solve was going well until I was distracted by my judge (3x3 practice) during my edges and I never managed to regain my focus - *DNF*

*Highlights*
Spending time with everyone I've met previously and meeting @Selkie for the first time. Great curry on Saturday night with Andy (@Shaky Hands) and Mark (@newtonbase). It was also cool to see Matt Parker in attendance (Stand Up Maths / Numerphile) and having a chat with him. In terms of performances it was nice to align my official times for 2x2 and 4x4 with my times at home. The competition itself was really well organised.

*Lowlights*
I am yet to reproduce my typical OH times in competition. I still can't believe my 3x3 performance!
It was a shame about my 5x5 times as I was solving well beforehand but it wasn't a priority event for me.


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## Selkie (Nov 7, 2016)

Postmortem of performances:-

*Saturday
2x2:* Had practiced a bit in few days before comp as some may recall. First solve I had a corner pop on PBL on my stickerless Dayan so swapped to a spare cube (Black Moyu) for the rest. never did recover and had a really bad average. I had felt PB average was one of the certainties of the comp. (7.80 Single / 10.67 Average)

*Pyraminx:* A nice single where I skipped L3E stage. A counting 21.xy cost me sub 15 but content enough with the results (8.72 Single / 16.76 Average)

*4x4*: First solve went well but I had predicted I would get a lot of double parities. Solve 1 turned out to be the case and was the best time of the average when the second solve was double parity as well I lost confidence and lost lookahead. Though it is comp PB for single and average I am disappointed as I have not done 4x4 at comp for 3 years and nowhere near my goal of sub 1 / Sub 1:05 (1:03.57 Single / 1:10.69 Average)

*Skewb:* Was not going to be hard to be a 23.xy average set the first time I solves Skewb at Exeter. A second solve DNF meant the 26 at the end counted and was lucky to get a 20.xy (16.02 Single / 20.27 Average)

*Megaminx:* I felt this was going to be the closest one for me to make average cut but with @Shaky Hands sat as my lucky judge I made it by 0.22 and then relaxed. I think relaxing is the key to it being the best event for me at the comp. (1:49.83 Single / 2:08.33 Average)

*Square-1:* I knew this one would be tight to break PBs and started just sub par with 38, 43, 45 but then I messed up parity on solve 4 and started from the beginning. On solve 5 I had an edge pop and that killed the average. (38.99 Single, 57.90 Average)

*Clock:* Another event where my confidence was shaken from the beginning where I DNFed the first solve as 4 dials were pointing at 3. Managed to pull a single PB out of the bag but only just! (13.16 Single / 18.28 Average)

*Sunday
3x3:* I could not decide on which cube to use and also could not decide on what TPS to try. With my brain caught in no mans land I messed up the first two solves. I managed to concentrate and pull back a PB single and a low 15 but a lockup on the last solve left me with the most evil of averages 16.66  The second round I changed to the Valk and had another poor average. Silver lining was no solve over 18.03. 18.03 was my worst solve in both rounds! (13.39 Single / 16.66 Average)

*5x5:* With confidence already knocked and average cut set at 2:15 I lost time looking at the timer too much and got a 2:17 and 2:19.


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## CLL Smooth (Nov 7, 2016)

Logiqx said:


> I am yet to reproduce my typical OH times in competition.


This was exactly my problem for the longest time. It seems like it was the only event I practiced or even cared about the results in. Once I lightened up and stared caring less I started seeing better results.


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## Selkie (Nov 7, 2016)

My 6 competition PBs singles at UK Championship 2016:-


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## Logiqx (Nov 7, 2016)

CLL Smooth said:


> This was exactly my problem for the longest time. It seems like it was the only event I practiced or even cared about the results in. Once I lightened up and stared caring less I started seeing better results.



Quite possibly my problem at UKC combined with general tiredness. Conclusion... care less and try to get more sleep!

BTW: What's the story behind LL Cool Skip and CLL Smooth? I've only just spotted that you post under two usernames.


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## CLL Smooth (Nov 7, 2016)

Logiqx said:


> Quite possibly my problem at UKC combined with general tiredness. Conclusion... care less and try to get more sleep!
> 
> BTW: What's the story behind LL Cool Skip and CLL Smooth? I've only just spotted that you post under two usernames.


You found me out... I actually started LL Cool Skip (a reference to LL Cool J, of course) after a long hiatus and shortly after that, my laptop crapped-out. I since haven't even been able to find the email account I used to start that username. I was, however, able to dig up my previous and current one I post under (a reference to a much better rapper, CL Smooth). Some good investigation might even reveal my first username here, but I'm not giving any hints.


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## pglewis (Nov 7, 2016)

Jason Green said:


> Finally edited my sub 20 average together.



YouTube knows me, I saw this pop up in my suggested feed before I saw it here lol. Great recovery for the average and it's all gravy from here with that sub-20 in the books.


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## mark49152 (Nov 7, 2016)

More BLD from UKC. Also, at lunch today I got my first sub-1 3BLD, 54.01. If only I was on that form yesterday! 

3BLD mean, and check out the corners on the second scramble 





Multiblind, and check out the cold fingers


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## Logiqx (Nov 7, 2016)

Inspired by the weekend, I've just completed my first clock solve since 1989!

I had absolutely no recollection about how the puzzle works so it was back to square one (excuse the pun) and it took almost an hour to solve.

I need to refine my method a little before entering a competition. 

p.s. WH Smiths receipt is still in the box and dated 9th July 1989.


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## Selkie (Nov 7, 2016)

Yup that second scramble was insane. I was scrambling 3BLD and could not believe it when I saw it. I wondered if anyone would try a U2 (or whatever 2 depending on your orientation) and change 4 edge targets to be honest


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## mark49152 (Nov 7, 2016)

Selkie said:


> Yup that second scramble was insane. I was scrambling 3BLD and could not believe it when I saw it. I wondered if anyone would try a U2 (or whatever 2 depending on your orientation) and change 4 edge targets to be honest


Yes the trouble is thinking fast enough not to slow down the memo. U2 and switch edge targets would be most efficient. In the end I solved UFR (and my UBL buffer) as normal, then finished with V-perm to swap the other two. Today it occurred to me that a good compromise would have been H-perm U2 and normal edge memo.


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## newtonbase (Nov 7, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> Also, at lunch today I got my first sub-1 3BLD, 54.01.



Well done. That's quite a milestone. I quit my lunchtime solve after 5 mins trying to make the memo stick. 



Logiqx said:


> p.s. WH Smiths receipt is still in the box and dated 9th July 1989



How does it turn? 



Selkie said:


> Yup that second scramble was insane. I was scrambling 3BLD and could not believe it when I saw it. I wondered if anyone would try a U2 (or whatever 2 depending on your orientation) and change 4 edge targets to be honest



The memo was very easy but I did a setup for one piece then undid the setup for the next piece so had to quit.


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## Selkie (Nov 7, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> Today it occurred to me that a good compromise would have been H-perm U2 and normal edge memo.



That sir is genius!



newtonbase said:


> The memo was very easy but I did a setup for one piece then undid the setup for the next piece so had to quit.



Had a couple of solvers including Joey come up to me and ask for the scramble again after the round was over. I am trying to feed of this positive BLD stuff at the moment, storing it up for my success push at Christmas. I figure since my 4 successes are now over 4 years ago it is time I "got back on the horse" as it were.


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## Logiqx (Nov 7, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> How does it turn?



It seems pretty decent.


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## bubbagrub (Nov 7, 2016)

Great comp -- too many posts to catch up on here! I just wanted to quickly ask: did anyone lose a stickerless 5x5? One showed up in my bag of cubes...


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## Selkie (Nov 7, 2016)

bubbagrub said:


> Great comp -- too many posts to catch up on here! I just wanted to quickly ask: did anyone lose a stickerless 5x5? One showed up in my bag of cubes...



Sounds like it could be @Shaky Hands Yuxin! Great meeting you by the way Ben


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## bubbagrub (Nov 7, 2016)

OK, here's my report on how things went. First off, really nice to see so many of the oldies from this thread irl, and I'm looking forward to seeing Bernzilla's photo. Venue was good, and it was the first time I've ever stayed in the building that the event is being hosted in, which made things a lot easier than usual.

3x3: Meh. I've not really practised this for months, so I guess I get what I deserve. I felt like I was edging towards sub-20 a year ago, and now I struggle to get sub-25.
4x4: Very surprised to get an average (which was a PB), given the cut-off. Very happy with this one.
5x5: PB single.
2x2: Really bad. One of those events where the fact that I don't practise really shows up.
3BLD: 2 successes, including a PB single. Once I had those two successes I really thought I had a chance of getting the mean, which just meant the pressure was too great and I fluffed the final solve. So that's now my goal for next comp: get a 3BLD mean.
OH & Clock: disaster. I didn't make the soft-cut. Very disappointing.
Pyra: OK
Square 1: Pretty good times for me, but not as good as the super-lucky ones I got in Guildford, so no PBs.
Skewb: I've been practising this a lot at home recently, and becoming quite consistently sub-13, so I was disappointed to get a 13.91 average. Got a PB single, which was pleasing, though.
So I guess my highlights were 4x4 and 3BLD -- not at all what I'd have expected going into the comp!


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## bubbagrub (Nov 7, 2016)

Selkie said:


> Sounds like it could be @Shaky Hands Yuxin!



Ah! I hadn't seen that.

@Shaky Hands: If you PM me your address I'll mail it to you.



Selkie said:


> Yuxin! Great meeting you by the way Ben



You too -- a real pleasure. I'd kind of come to feel like I knew you from this forum, so it was very nice indeed to actually meet you in real life.


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## Selkie (Nov 7, 2016)

@bubbagrub - I agree 100% Being such a niche past time, the internet and these forums are an invaluable way of connecting us all. Without them we would all be somewhat isolated and unmotivated and wondering what we are doing investing so much time in puzzles. That aside there is nothing like meeting face to face and it is no secret the most important part of any competition for me is meeting fellow cubers and making friends. That for me beats any official times or chasing PBs. I enjoying meeting new cubers and catching up with known ones more than anything. Was a pleasure to meet you and your son


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## Shaky Hands (Nov 7, 2016)

bubbagrub said:


> Great comp -- too many posts to catch up on here! I just wanted to quickly ask: did anyone lose a stickerless 5x5? One showed up in my bag of cubes...



Hi there Mr Grub, yes that's 99% likely to be mine if it's a stickerless Yuxin. Thanks for letting me know.

I ordered a new 5x5 today, so no rush currently as I'll be trying to break in a new cube when it arrives and if that is good I'd be happy to wait for the next time I see you at a comp. Thanks for the offer of posting it; will drop you a message if new cube doesn't work out.

In the meantime ordering a new 5x5 has pushed forward my order for the Valk 3x3 and some Maru Lube, plus I can focus on other events in the meantime, so you may have done me a favour anyway.


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## bubbagrub (Nov 7, 2016)

Shaky Hands said:


> Hi there Mr Grub, yes that's 99% likely to be mine if it's a stickerless Yuxin. Thanks for letting me know.
> 
> I ordered a new 5x5 today, so no rush currently as I'll be trying to break in a new cube when it arrives and if that is good I'd be happy to wait for the next time I see you at a comp. Thanks for the offer of posting it; will drop you a message if new cube doesn't work out.
> 
> In the meantime ordering a new 5x5 has pushed forward my order for the Valk 3x3 and some Maru Lube, plus I can focus on other events in the meantime, so you may have done me a favour anyway.



OK -- glad to hear it's not a disaster. Still, sorry for the mix-up. I guess I packed up too hastily when I left! I really won't mind posting it to you if you decide you want me to do so. Just let me know.


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## bubbagrub (Nov 7, 2016)

Now, a question for Mark (and anyone else with a view!)

As I said above, I'd like to aim to get a 3BLD mean in the next comp. I currently use OP for edges and corners, and I guess this is slowing me down, although my memo is still painfully slow as well. Rather than switching to M2, I'm wondering if I should just go the whole hog and learn 3-style. I am considering this in part because I figure it would also be useful for FMC, and I like the idea that it might also generally help my understanding of the cube, and maybe extend to big-BLD as well.

So, is this is a bad idea? Is it worth it? Do people use commutators for both edges and corners? Will it really save that much time compared with my super-slow memo (around 2 minutes, I think)?


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## h2f (Nov 7, 2016)

bubbagrub said:


> Rather than switching to M2, I'm wondering if I should just go the whole hog and learn 3-style. I am considering this in part because I figure it would also be useful for FMC, and I like the idea that it might also generally help my understanding of the cube, and maybe extend to big-BLD as well.
> 
> So, is this is a bad idea? Is it worth it? Do people use commutators for both edges and corners? Will it really save that much time compared with my super-slow memo (around 2 minutes, I think)?



In my opinion - in the very long run it's worth learnign. But in the short time - no. I can tell you my story - I've learnt first comms 2 years ago when I was sub-3 min solver. I've started using corner comms around 2 minutes but a year ago I was still using OP for some corners. I was around 1:40 in that time. Now I'm using full comms and I'm still over 1 minute solver. The fast solves come from automatization of solving which is hard when you think about what you are doing.

And one more think. I dont think you can easily switch from OP for edges to 3style for edges. Most solver use UF as a buffer not UR like in OP. If you use M2 adding edge comms is very easy but in OP - I'm not sure. Many solvers before switching to 3style use Turbo or M2 because both methods are quite similiar to 3style. OP doesnt have such feature. If you want fasten your solves in a short term focus rather on memo not a method. Maybe it's just a lack of practice...


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## pglewis (Nov 7, 2016)

So much to catch up on with the vids and postmortems!



Logiqx said:


> Note to self... CFOFOPFOP is not a good method



Ya gotta admit it's a far cheaper way to achieve this level of frustration than golf (all-weather, too). Also: got a chuckle out of the judge surprised at your disappointment on the 20, "what were you looking for?!"


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## bubbagrub (Nov 7, 2016)

h2f said:


> In my opinion - in the very long run it's worth learnign. But in the short time - no. I can tell you my story - I've learnt first comms 2 years ago when I was sub-3 min solver. I've started using corner comms around 2 minutes but a year ago I was still using OP for some corners. I was around 1:40 in that time. Now I'm using full comms and I'm still over 1 minute solver. The fast solves come from automatization of solving which is hard when you think about what you are doing.
> 
> And one more think. I dont think you can easily switch from OP for edges to 3style for edges. Most solver use UF as a buffer not UR like in OP. If you use M2 adding edge comms is very easy but in OP - I'm not sure. Many solvers before switching to 3style use Turbo or M2 because both methods are quite similiar to 3style. OP doesnt have such feature. If you want fasten your solves in a short term focus rather on memo not a method. Maybe it's just a lack of practice...



OK -- useful advice. Thank you! I wonder if I should switch to Turbo instead of M2, then? That was Maskow's advice in his recent reddit AMA... I'm willing to start again from scratch if need be, though, so I'm ok with jumping straight from OP to 3-style, if that's the best thing to do...


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## mark49152 (Nov 7, 2016)

@bubbagrub: There are many different opinions on that question, so this is just my two cents.

Commutators are great and it is well worth knowing how they work, but the fact is, they require more thinking and that will slow down your BLD solves for a good while until you are very, very comfortable with them. I switched to corner comms about six months ago and it took most of that time to get back to the times I had with OP corners. It's a long term investment.

My view on edges is that M2 is a great stepping stone towards comms. The reason is that the M2 move, unlike a T-perm, is a typical interchange move for a comm. So when you execute two targets one of which is UB, you are already doing a comm without realising it. Several targets can be easily set up to UB to conjugate comms. The approach is often called "advanced M2" and it's a great way to learn about comms while still retaining the advantage of being able to fall back on mindlessly blasting through individual targets without thinking. Plus, even when executing targets individually, M2 is relatively move efficient, to the point where it would take a lot more effort to gain benefit from switching to edge comms because you really would need to reduce thinking time to almost zero.

Finally a comment about means. Means and singles are in conflict, as goals. Single PBs require taking some risks and accepting a few DNFs, and as long as I'm not disqualifying myself from the next round I'd rather have a fast DNF than a slow success. Aiming for a mean requires effectively accepting poor singles for a while... but it's nice when a mean comes along by accident like mine did yesterday .

Edit: Regarding TuRBo, I have seen Maskow and some others recommend this, but IMHO it's not as good because it conjugates algs rather than a single interchange move like M2, so it is less efficient and not a good stepping stone to comms in the same way. The usual reason for recommending TuRBo is that it uses the UF buffer which some people say is better for transitioning to 3-style edges. However, DF isn't bad, and although I don't have much experience with edge comms, it looks to me that any advantage UF has is only marginal.


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## h2f (Nov 7, 2016)

Turbo or M2 it's a personal preference. The cases of Maskow or Kaijun proves that both can you lead to a good times.

@bubbagrub for corners you can go straight from OP to comms. For edges - I dont think so. OP doesnt teach you think in 3cycle terms. Instead of Turbo or M2. And that buffer thing...


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## Shaky Hands (Nov 7, 2016)

bubbagrub said:


> ... That was Maskow's advice in his recent reddit AMA...



This bit of Maskow's AMA gave me a good chuckle:

Q: Any tips for one just starting MBLD?

A: Yep, don't do it. But seriously: MBLD needs to be practice regularly. Some people think that one attempt per week is enough. No, it isn't. In reality MBLD is probably the hardest and the most time consuming event to practice. And the most frustrating. IT's because in all other events, when you are better, it's becoming easier and easier and you do it faster and faster. Not here! In MBLD when you are better it becomes harder and harder, because you need to take more cubes, and it doesn't become faster, because you still needs to use one full hour. It's good event for masochists. If you are one - then you will be fine. Just practice regularly.


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## Selkie (Nov 7, 2016)

Shaky Hands said:


> This bit of Maskow's AMA gave me a good chuckle:
> 
> Q: Any tips for one just starting MBLD?
> 
> A: Yep, don't do it. But seriously: MBLD needs to be practice regularly. Some people think that one attempt per week is enough. No, it isn't. In reality MBLD is probably the hardest and the most time consuming event to practice. And the most frustrating. IT's because in all other events, when you are better, it's becoming easier and easier and you do it faster and faster. Not here! In MBLD when you are better it becomes harder and harder, because you need to take more cubes, and it doesn't become faster, because you still needs to use one full hour. It's good event for masochists. If you are one - then you will be fine. Just practice regularly.



What a great synopsis of the event. Harsh but very, very fair 

@mark49152 , @h2f - Great posts gents


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## biscuit (Nov 7, 2016)

Logiqx said:


> Quite possibly my problem at UKC combined with general tiredness. Conclusion... care less and try to get more sleep!
> 
> BTW: What's the story behind LL Cool Skip and CLL Smooth? I've only just spotted that you post under two usernames.



It's not the sleep. Staying up till 1am then getting up and organizing taught me that. Caring on the other hand...

(Sorry, impostor here. I belong in the Teenage discussion thread )


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## defhacks (Nov 8, 2016)

Congrats to all the UK folks, hope everyone enjoyed the congregation/competition.

I haven't been this jealous not to live there since my first taste of clotted cream.


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## newtonbase (Nov 8, 2016)

Following @Logiqx's mini OH tutorial on Sunday I've been drilling pinky R/R'. There's already some obvious improvement but judging by the pain in my forearm I may be taking a day off it tomorrow. 

My blind skills seem to have deserted me. Haven't had a success at all today. That's 3 bad days in a row. Must be lack of sleep . 

Glad your cube turned up @Shaky Hands


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## Jason Green (Nov 8, 2016)

Logiqx said:


> Note to self... CFOFOPFOP is not a good method


Oh man, I know if I compete long enough I'll have this happen or something similar. I'm grateful my comps did not start out like this it could've been really discouraging!


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## phreaker (Nov 8, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> Following @Logiqx's mini OH tutorial on Sunday I've been drilling pinky R/R'. There's already some obvious improvement but judging by the pain in my forearm I may be taking a day off it tomorrow.
> 
> My blind skills seem to have deserted me. Haven't had a success at all today. That's 3 bad days in a row. Must be lack of sleep .
> 
> Glad your cube turned up @Shaky Hands



Check that you are holding the cube right, that injury could be from not holding your wrist straight.

Also make sure your cube is loose enough. Far too easy to have to work too hard with your hand, and then wonder why your hand is bothering you .


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## pglewis (Nov 8, 2016)

Jason Green said:


> Oh man, I know if I compete long enough I'll have this happen or something similar. I'm grateful my comps did not start out like this it could've been really discouraging!



DNF average for 2x2 and 3x3 and the best I could muster was a 1:10 3x3 single . There was disappointment for sure, I had an aggressive goal at the time of a sub 50 average but figured at _worst_ I should come away with a sub 1min ao5. Some serious empathy here knowing how weird the concentration can be, especially when it falls off the cliff like that. 

At the same time I'm kinda glad I got it out of the way at the first one. I left there with an official WCA single time, that's more than I went in with and I didn't know anyone else who did before that day. The atmosphere was great, everyone there was very helpful and encouraging, and it did prep me for the future potential of "getting comp'd". Being my first comp was already enough win in itself to help cushion the disappointment. Helps to be a stubborn cuss, too, I can't let that performance stand.


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## Jason Green (Nov 8, 2016)

@pglewis yeah that's true, I'm still trying to get good at bowling after 20 years but my success at cubing already has been more rewarding to me in lots of ways. The thing with bowling is it's harder to get in the practice time I'd like, especially with a family now. When I started I would bowl many hours a week. Plus there are even more variables when you go to a tourney than with cubing, lanes and oil patterns are difficult to adjust to. 

Like you said, you have a single now so it's something to build on!


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## pglewis (Nov 8, 2016)

Also, if "Getting Comp'd" hasn't already been a meme, I'm laying claim.


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## Logiqx (Nov 8, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> Following @Logiqx's mini OH tutorial on Sunday I've been drilling pinky R/R'. There's already some obvious improvement but judging by the pain in my forearm I may be taking a day off it tomorrow.
> 
> My blind skills seem to have deserted me. Haven't had a success at all today. That's 3 bad days in a row. Must be lack of sleep .
> 
> Glad your cube turned up @Shaky Hands


Cool. Keep at it and in a fews weeks your fingers will get stronger.

A mini cube might also help initially. I used a mini Weilong for a long time.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk


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## newtonbase (Nov 8, 2016)

phreaker said:


> Check that you are holding the cube right, that injury could be from not holding your wrist straight.
> 
> Also make sure your cube is loose enough. Far too easy to have to work too hard with your hand, and then wonder why your hand is bothering you .





Logiqx said:


> Cool. Keep at it and in a fews weeks your fingers will get stronger.
> 
> A mini cube might also help initially. I used a mini Weilong for a long time.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk


I 
I'm sure the pain is just the tendons stretching as I'm not used to moving my pinky independently . I'm sure a smaller cube will suit me more as I have girls hands but for the purpose of the exercise I'll stick with full size for now. I might switch to a quieter cube so I can practice at work.


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## h2f (Nov 8, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> My blind skills seem to have deserted me. Haven't had a success at all today. That's 3 bad days in a row. Must be lack of sleep .



When I have such series of DNFs I take a break for at least few days.  It's a good sign by the way because it means you practiced a lot.


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## Logiqx (Nov 8, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> I
> I'm sure the pain is just the tendons stretching as I'm not used to moving my pinky independently . I'm sure a smaller cube will suit me more as I have girls hands but for the purpose of the exercise I'll stick with full size for now. I might switch to a quieter cube so I can practice at work.


Smooth, easy to turn cubes are also a good idea. Weilong GTS or Valk are my favorites for OH.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk


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## SenorJuan (Nov 8, 2016)

@ Mark *Newtonbase*: I'm not sure how useful my advice will be on OH solving, but... 
Re: the smaller cube, it's worth considering using one, though I remember when I started out, the 57mm cube seemed large, and it took a long time to develop good movements. And I've got big pasties, the 57mm is actually just fine, and even a 4x4 I find is manageable.
It will feel hard to turn initially, and you'll be tempted to use lighter lube / looser adjustments / etc. This is not the best idea, if anything, your OH cube needs to be stiffer / gummier than for 2H, as you have less control over it. You just have to practice until you develop the speed/strength. You're not going to be turning at 2H TPS, so you don't need a cube suitable for such speed.
I remember as my speed was increasing, I was turning more agressively, and starting to over-turn, and stiffening the cube allowed me to keep on improving.
Practice for several short sessions during a day, to give your hand/arm time to recover, eventually you'll have the strength and stamina to do longer practice sessions.

( I turn R' with my index finger, it baffles me how anyone can do it with ring/pinky, but I suspect the R' move is the least natural move for you, and will be the one that 'hurts the most' when you're learning. )


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## newtonbase (Nov 8, 2016)

Logiqx said:


> Smooth, easy to turn cubes are also a good idea. Weilong GTS or Valk are my favorites for OH.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk


Valk is the plan.


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## newtonbase (Nov 8, 2016)

SenorJuan said:


> ( I turn R' with my index finger, it baffles me how anyone can do it with ring/pinky, but I suspect the R' move is the least natural move for you, and will be the one that 'hurts the most' when you're learning. )


It does seem bizarre but it appears to be effective if you can do it.


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## Logiqx (Nov 8, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> It does seem bizarre but it appears to be effective if you can do it.


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## SenorJuan (Nov 8, 2016)

When I started OH, in 2003, there was minimal guidance available on how you should hold / turn, which hand to use, just a few suggestions based on what others did, it was up to me to find out what worked. That aspect of it seemed quite appealing to me, I liked the idea of having to work it all out for myself, rather than blindly following rules. I'm right-handed, and not particularly good with my left, but saw the logic in using Left turning, so from the outset that was my choice. I chose pinky finger rather than ring, because that would leave the ring finger available to help hold the cube. Plus the pinky is more dextrous, with extra muscles in the hand, I understand. But when it came to the R' move, I was stuck. Pushing upwards on BRD was tricky without an awkward grip, and the shortness of my pinky didn't help. But pushing backwards on FDR seemed to only work if the R layer was aligned OK - if it was turned R a bit,(so more than 90 degrees was needed to perform R' ) there was no way I could execute the turn, and the fact that I was using my nail, rather than the fleshy fingertip gave me no grip. So I chose Index finger for R' . And Ryan Patricio was multiple WR holder in 2005-8 (roughly) using this turning style, which showed it had some merit.
I did change from pinky to ring-finger turning about 4 years ago, as I was continually slicing up the edge of my fingernail on sticker chips, and red inflamed fingers are no good for cubing. It didn't take too long to re-learn, and my much longer Ring finger seemed to help in many situations.
(I did wonder if I could successfully use both, for R2 turns, but it didn't seem easy, and now, if I try and intentionally revert to pinky turning, it feels bizarre, like having a 6th finger)


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## Logiqx (Nov 8, 2016)

I think a key point is that modern hardware is a lot better nowadays. Back in 2005 the hardware wasn't great and even 4 years ago it was not as good as today.

There are times when alternative finger tricks are useful (just as with 2H) but I believe pinky is the best default. I was tempted to go for the easy option (ring) when I started OH but I'm glad that I listened to the advice and went for pinky.

I recall Jayden McNeil switching from ring to pinky a year or so ago despite averaging sub-15. He clearly thought it was worth re-learning even at his level.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk


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## SenorJuan (Nov 8, 2016)

Yeah, I remember Jayden's post, asking how long it would take to re-learn, I posted a reply to it, based on my change-over experience. What did it for me was the day I used a craft knife to extract 8 different sticker chips of 5 different colours that were embedded under the edge of my pinky nail. Not as colourful as it sounds, due to them all being blood-stained.
I can't really say how much slower/faster I was after the changeover, as I was improving in speed at the time anyway, I also was changing cubes ( I got my first Zhanchi about that time).
My Ring finger is an inch longer than my Pinky, I recall that with Pinky-turning, I had to hold the cube in a fairly correct position in order to perform the R move, but with the Ring finger, I can grip the cube in a variety of 'transitional' positions and still reach.
If stickerless cubes were legal back then, of course, I wouldn't have had the sticker-chip problem, and would still be a Pinky turner. Discounting the fact I'm far too picky about my colours, and wouldn't like stickerless cubes...

"I was tempted to go for the easy option (ring)"
Curiously, I never thought it was easy, the idea of holding the cube with just 2 fingers sounds precarious, which is why I chose pinky-turning originally. In practice, as my index finger does most of the turning, the Ring and Pinky finger are used for holding/rotating the cube anyway, it's only the R move that leaves 2 fingers gripping, when doing Ring-finger turning.
I had hoped that doing wide r, r' moves would be easier with Ring instead of Pinky, but admit I'm still clumsy at them.


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## newtonbase (Nov 8, 2016)

The Valk is much easier to turn OH than my Thunderclap but I'm running low on skin on my finger so I'll have to take it easy.


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## SenorJuan (Nov 8, 2016)

Mark: I recall you saying your fingers were slow due to Martial Arts abuse, do you anticipate this will also affect your OH ability?


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## pglewis (Nov 8, 2016)

I don't think I've seen it mentioned yet so: stretch. Athletes don't just throw some shorts on and go run six miles. I'm no speed solver but I've logged my time on guitar and it makes a world of difference. 

And a question for the ignorant: with so many people being highly right biased for two hand, why lefty for OH?


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## SenorJuan (Nov 8, 2016)

Most right handed solvers tend to 'hold with the left, turn with the right', so when transferring to OH, you still hold with your left, and most of the "U,R - heavy" algs you already know can be re-used as-is.
Strength is not really an advantage, as OH turning on your right hand would still be very difficult at first, it's just not a natural thing.


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## Logiqx (Nov 8, 2016)

pglewis said:


> I don't think I've seen it mentioned yet so: stretch. Athletes don't just throw some shorts on and go run six miles. I'm no speed solver but I've logged my time on guitar and it makes a world of difference.
> 
> And a question for the ignorant: with so many people being highly right biased for two hand, why lefty for OH?



The main reason is because you can execute standard 2H algs more easily with your left hand. Your left hand doesn't have to do anything unusual such as rotations to execute RU moves. This means you can reuse a lot of the standard algs without much need for re-learning.

Another benefit is that when your right hand gets tired doing 2H you can do a bit of OH and vice versa.


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## muchacho (Nov 8, 2016)

Maybe in the long run it doesn't matter, but at first I tried each hand and my right one seemed to be better, and since the faster OH Roux solver was using his right hand, I chose right. Most people just copy what others, especially fast ones, do.


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## newtonbase (Nov 8, 2016)

SenorJuan said:


> Mark: I recall you saying your fingers were slow due to Martial Arts abuse, do you anticipate this will also affect your OH ability?


My damage was to my right hand so OH isn't affected. The cold weather causes me issues though and it's a good job we don't use our knees as they are pretty shot.


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## bubbagrub (Nov 8, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> My damage was to my right hand so OH isn't affected. The cold weather causes me issues though and it's a good job we don't use our knees as they are pretty shot.



I can just imagine the joy from the cubing community at having that as a new event -- "3x3 solved with knees"...


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## One Wheel (Nov 8, 2016)

bubbagrub said:


> I can just imagine the joy from the cubing community at having that as a new event -- "3x3 solved with knees"...


That sounds like a good challenge. I'll have to try it. That's the kind of thinking necessary to get short-lived UWRs, which is the only kind I'll ever have a chance at.


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## phreaker (Nov 8, 2016)

SenorJuan said:


> Curiously, I never thought it was easy, the idea of holding the cube with just 2 fingers sounds precarious, which is why I chose pinky-turning originally. In practice, as my index finger does most of the turning, the Ring and Pinky finger are used for holding/rotating the cube anyway, it's only the R move that leaves 2 fingers gripping, when doing Ring-finger turning.
> I had hoped that doing wide r, r' moves would be easier with Ring instead of Pinky, but admit I'm still clumsy at them.



I find R/R' and U/U' easiest if I ONLY target the middle layer, not between them.


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## pipkiksass (Nov 9, 2016)

A fascinating progress update to satisfy those who are *really* bored this morning! 1 month and 1 day after returning to cubing, when I did a 21.25 Ao50, I've just done a few solves:

Rolling Ao50 is on 18.96
Current Ao12 is 17.62
Best Ao12 is 17.10
Best Ao5 is 16.02



Spoiler: avg of 5: 16.02



Time List:
1. 15.66 B2 U2 F' L2 F D2 B U2 R2 D2 F' U' F U B D B D2 L B' R'
2. (14.21) B L' U2 R D2 U2 R2 U2 L D2 R F L2 R U B D' F' U R
3. 15.46 D2 B2 R2 F D2 B R2 B' R2 D2 L2 D L R' F L' D L' R' D U
4. (20.20) U' B2 L2 D U2 B2 R2 U2 F2 R2 D L' D2 F' L2 R' B' D2 F' R F
5. 16.94 L2 B U' R' L D' F2 R L' D' L2 U F2 U' F2 U R2 U2 F


Also, I picked up my 4x4 yesterday, for the first time in 2 years. It's a Weisu, I think, and its a bit catchy. Any tips on how to make it more fun to turn?


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## mafergut (Nov 9, 2016)

@pipkiksass I don't really know how to make a Weisu better. I'd think about buying a new 4x4 there are lots of cheap, great cubes out there since the Weisu came out.

Also, very nice progression back to sub-20 at 3x3 in no time.


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## pipkiksass (Nov 9, 2016)

mafergut said:


> @pipkiksass I don't really know how to make a Weisu better. I'd think about buying a new 4x4 there are lots of cheap, great cubes out there since the Weisu came out.
> 
> Also, very nice progression back to sub-20 at 3x3 in no time.



Thanks! Surprised myself a bit, had a run of over 20 sub 20s last night. Need to knuckle down and finish learning OLL, and do better crosses. I'm still a LITTLE bit slower than I was 2 years ago, but will hopefully overtake myself soon.

What 4x4 is best? Might go stickerless, if that influences the decision. I've read good things about the Yuxin Blue, but apparently it's better with a spring swap??

Edit: a little research shows that lots of folk do a spring swap with the Thunderclap, and The Cubicle do Thunderclap springs for $1, however I did find a post on here where someone had swapped with Fangshi ShuangRen springs, and i happen to have a Fangshi which I was going to throw out, so might try that.

Edit Edit: just done my first ever timed 4x4 solves. First solve was just under 4 minutes, third was 2:38. That's what I call progress!!!!



Spoiler: 4x4 times



Generated By csTimer on 2016-11-9
solves/total: 3/3

single
best: 2:38.34
worst: 3:52.64

mean of 3
current: 3:05.20 (σ = 41.20)
best: 3:05.20 (σ = 41.20)

Average: 2:44.62 (σ = 0.00)
Mean: 3:05.20

Time List:
1. 3:52.64 R' F Rw2 F Uw D Rw' D' Rw2 Uw' R' Fw R2 F2 Rw R' Uw2 R2 B' Rw R' B' D L D' L Rw' B2 Fw' L2 F2 L Fw L2 Rw F' Uw' Rw' D' F' 
2. 2:44.62 Rw' Fw' Rw2 D2 L2 R2 Uw L2 Rw R B2 F L D Fw2 D2 U Fw B L' R F2 B R L' B2 U Rw Uw2 Rw D B' F2 U2 Uw' R' F' U F' Uw' 
3. 2:38.34 L B' Rw D2 R2 L Uw F2 D2 F Uw B' D2 R2 Uw' Fw2 U' F L' Fw2 U2 R F' Uw L2 U B U F2 Rw U' D Fw' U' D' Fw2 D2 Rw B2 U'


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## mafergut (Nov 9, 2016)

pipkiksass said:


> Thanks! Surprised myself a bit, had a run of over 20 sub 20s last night. Need to knuckle down and finish learning OLL, and do better crosses. I'm still a LITTLE bit slower than I was 2 years ago, but will hopefully overtake myself soon.
> 
> What 4x4 is best? Might go stickerless, if that influences the decision. I've read good things about the Yuxin Blue, but apparently it's better with a spring swap??
> 
> ...



You'll be beating me at 3x3 and 4x4 in no time, I'm sure. The Yuxin Blue seems to need a spring swap and some breaking in, lubing and tensioning. Mine is terrible out of the box and I have a Thunderclap ready to do the swap. Will try to do it during Christmas. If you don't want to tinker with it and get a cube that will be good with just some breaking in, my current main is the Cyclone Boys G4, which also happens to have lovely stickerless shades and is also 60mm as the Yuxin Blue. I like smaller cubes.


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## newtonbase (Nov 9, 2016)

mafergut said:


> You'll be beating me at 3x3 and 4x4 in no time, I'm sure. The Yuxin Blue seems to need a spring swap and some breaking in, lubing and tensioning. Mine is terrible out of the box and I have a Thunderclap ready to do the swap. Will try to do it during Christmas. If you don't want to tinker with it and get a cube that will be good with just some breaking in, my current main is the Cyclone Boys G4, which also happens to have lovely stickerless shades and is also 60mm as the Yuxin Blue. I like smaller cubes.


Yes, the Cyclone Boys G4 is great once it gets going.


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## pipkiksass (Nov 9, 2016)

mafergut said:


> You'll be beating me at 3x3 and 4x4 in no time, I'm sure. The Yuxin Blue seems to need a spring swap and some breaking in, lubing and tensioning. Mine is terrible out of the box and I have a Thunderclap ready to do the swap. Will try to do it during Christmas. If you don't want to tinker with it and get a cube that will be good with just some breaking in, my current main is the Cyclone Boys G4, which also happens to have lovely stickerless shades and is also 60mm as the Yuxin Blue. I like smaller cubes.





newtonbase said:


> Yes, the Cyclone Boys G4 is great once it gets going.



So is the consensus to go with the Cyclone Boys? I don't mind a bit of tinkering. The issue I have is that thepuzzlestore.uk stock the Yuxin, but not the Cyclone Boys, I could get one from Lightake for £4.50, which is ludicrous for a 4x4, but I won't get it for a fortnight, or could pay £8 for express (1 week) shipping. I could get the Yuxin in 2 days, and have a spring ready to swap.

Thoughts?


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## pglewis (Nov 9, 2016)

You can see from my 4x4 times that I'm a straight-up n00b but I enjoy it a lot (even more green with 5x5, but I've fallen in love with that puzzle... 5x5 may be my favorite). 

I have a G4 and a Yuxin (the bigger one, not the Blue). The G4 was very stiff for me initially, inner slices needed some elbow grease and were rather catchy. It took more than a few solves to break in, probably a week and a half, but it did break in quite nicely. I did not lube or tension it at all for at least a week. It feels somewhat heavy to me but it's a joy to solve. Sticker quality isn't the highest IMO, so stickerless is probably a good choice if the color scheme is acceptable. 

The Yuxin turned much better out of the box but even as a newb I don't trust it if I'm timing. It caught and popped on the centers while scrambling early on, luckily I kept it mostly intact. The G4 has been very trustworthy since break-in so the Yuxin hasn't had the same opportunity to get broken-in. I did pick up a set of Thunderclap springs to try in it at some point, even though it's not the Blue.


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## SenorJuan (Nov 9, 2016)

Pip: My Weisu was a bit catchy when new, I felt it was the poor moulding of the centre-pieces. I removed them one at a time and smoothed them off around the corners/edges of the flat face, using a needle file & silicon carbide paper. It seemed better afterwards.


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## teacher77 (Nov 9, 2016)

AT LAST, I finally had an Ao10 under 30 s :

31,88
31,04
34,05
26,41
32,11
31,69
22,83
31,78
25,96
25,00

Ao10 = 29.28 s.

Oh and that's my new Ao5 PB = 27.45 s also !

I still feel I'm reaching a plateau, though, because my PB single has been the same for over a month and a half. Any advice on further progress with CFOP ?


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## pipkiksass (Nov 9, 2016)

teacher77 said:


> AT LAST, I finally had an Ao10 under 30 s :
> 
> 31,88
> 31,04
> ...



Try the CFOP substep comp. It should help highlight which areas you can improve on most. Have you read Escher's stickied post on 'how to practice'? The best way to beat plateaus is to do focussed practice, like blind crosses, slow turning, or LL drills. 

Noah Arthurs did a really good post a few years back on beating plateaus, when I'm not mobile I'll post a link, but should be fairly easy to search for. Look for "The Mountain"...

The thing is that progress will now be a LOT slower - when you were solving in 90 seconds there was SO much room for improvement, and as you get faster the improvements become smaller more subtle tweaks, and the difference they yield will be smaller. Also, you will reach a point where pure solving will no longer result in improvement, you need targeted practice. But it will come. You'll break PBs by .1 of a second rather than 5 seconds, but don't get disheartened.

Remember:

There are no limits. There are plateaus, but you must not stay there, you must go beyond them. If it kills you, it kills you. A man must constantly exceed his level.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## pglewis (Nov 9, 2016)

teacher77 said:


> AT LAST, I finally had an Ao10 under 30 s :
> 
> 31,88
> 31,04
> ...



Nicely done! 

Have you ever recorded and watched your solves? Even if you never share it, it's super helpful. Look for where your pauses are. Figure out how much faster you'd be if you mostly eliminated those pauses. Figure out what you need to adjust to do so.


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## Logiqx (Nov 9, 2016)

Photo courtesy of Bernard Solomon AKA Bernzilla @ UKC 2016.

Left to right...

Andy @Shaky Hands, Ben @bubbagrub, Mark @newtonbase, Mark @mark49152, Chris @Selkie, Mike @Logiqx


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## newtonbase (Nov 9, 2016)

Logiqx said:


> Photo courtesy of Bernard Solomon AKA Bernzilla @ UKC 2016.
> 
> Left to right...
> 
> ...


A good looking bunch of lads if I ever saw one. 

Thanks to Bernard.


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## pipkiksass (Nov 9, 2016)

Nice to put faces to names. I know most of you have photos on profiles or WCA page anyway, but still!

I like to think you were doing your bit to compensate for the fact that many of the attendees were too young to prop up the bar?

Anyone have any input on my 4x4 purchasing decision? I'm going to buy one in the next 20 minutes, and it will either be a Yuxin Blue (from Puzzle Store UK - would be with me maybe Saturday/Monday) or a Cyclone Boys G4 (from Lightake, would be with me some time this century).


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## Selkie (Nov 10, 2016)

Been mainly working since UKC culminating in a 500 mile driving day today to see clients but some great chat going on about BLD/Comms and OH on here, some really interesting stuff guys. Personally for my drive for BLD success over Christmas I am going to go with M2/OP Corners. As for OH I am going to try some of the suggestions. I gave up OH a long while ago but it may be worth looking at it again if I can change method so I don't feel like I have a broken hand after each solve.

Loving the group photo and thanks for Bernie for taking it. I would love to post it on my Facebook profile if you guys are ok with that? I won't tag anyone and the only person in the photo I am not FB friends with is Andy @Shaky Hands . Let me know if any of you have any objections.

Delighted to see that the schedule for Birmingham Open is up and with 3x3, 4x4 and 6x6 on the menu for Sunday (the day I can attend) really going to be practicing 4 and 6 hard for the next month. I have a 4 hour train trip on Friday and intend on doing solely 6x6 for the journey. I have a few sub 4 minute means of 3 and with the two new eagerly awaited 6x6's being released would be great to Get to sub 4 officially to take pressure off qualifying for UKC 2017! 

@pipkiksass - The Cyclone Boys G4 is a great 4x4 but will take a few solves out of teh box to feel its best. I hear awesome things about the Yuxin Blue with Thunderclap springs and will be ordering on imminently.


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## One Wheel (Nov 10, 2016)

pipkiksass said:


> Nice to put faces to names. I know most of you have photos on profiles or WCA page anyway, but still!
> 
> I like to think you were doing your bit to compensate for the fact that many of the attendees were too young to prop up the bar?
> 
> Anyone have any input on my 4x4 purchasing decision? I'm going to buy one in the next 20 minutes, and it will either be a Yuxin Blue (from Puzzle Store UK - would be with me maybe Saturday/Monday) or a Cyclone Boys G4 (from Lightake, would be with me some time this century).



I'm happy with my G4, no experience with the Yuxin.


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## Jason Green (Nov 10, 2016)

One Wheel said:


> I'm happy with my G4, no experience with the Yuxin.


Same for me.


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## SenorJuan (Nov 10, 2016)

Great group photo, thanks for that. I have 'tabloid press' comments in my head now, stuff like "...with a combined age of 265 years...." hehe, if I was there it would certainly top 300 yrs.

The 4x4 chat is good, too, I was toying with getting a good one, that Weisu I have seems nice until it locks and spits out odd-shaped internal parts without much provocation. I might enjoy solving more if I'm not on the floor looking for black plastic parts hiding in the shadows.


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## h2f (Nov 10, 2016)

Logiqx said:


> Photo courtesy of Bernard Solomon AKA Bernzilla @ UKC 2016.
> 
> Left to right...
> 
> ...


Nice to see you All.


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## teacher77 (Nov 10, 2016)

pipkiksass said:


> Try the CFOP substep comp. It should help highlight which areas you can improve on most. Have you read Escher's stickied post on 'how to practice'? The best way to beat plateaus is to do focussed practice, like blind crosses, slow turning, or LL drills.
> 
> Noah Arthurs did a really good post a few years back on beating plateaus, when I'm not mobile I'll post a link, but should be fairly easy to search for. Look for "The Mountain"...



Thanks for the kind words.

Maybe it's my poor english, but I have no clue what a "substep comp" is. Can you please enlighten me ?


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## h2f (Nov 10, 2016)

teacher77 said:


> Maybe it's my poor english, but I have no clue what a "substep comp" is. Can you please enlighten me ?




This: https://www.speedsolving.com/forum/threads/new-cfop-substep-competition.47386/page-12#post-1202429


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## newtonbase (Nov 10, 2016)

Selkie said:


> Been mainly working since UKC culminating in a 500 mile driving day today to see clients but some great chat going on about BLD/Comms and OH on here, some really interesting stuff guys. Personally for my drive for BLD success over Christmas I am going to go with M2/OP Corners. As for OH I am going to try some of the suggestions. I gave up OH a long while ago but it may be worth looking at it again if I can change method so I don't feel like I have a broken hand after each solve.
> 
> Loving the group photo and thanks for Bernie for taking it. I would love to post it on my Facebook profile if you guys are ok with that? I won't tag anyone and the only person in the photo I am not FB friends with is Andy @Shaky Hands . Let me know if any of you have any objections.
> 
> ...


Yes, more than happy for it to go on Facebook and I'd like to be tagged please.


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## muchacho (Nov 10, 2016)

I guess my Guansu is good enough but I wanted to get a stickerless 4x4, I was going to buy the Yuxin Blue (I even have some spare Thunderclap springs) but the Kungfu Cangfeng was so cheap... their 2x2 feels "cheap" but performs nicely, so I thought I might try their 4x4. Wish me luck.

Nice photo! What's with the cubes? It seems it was the ones you got a PB in for some of you but not for others.


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## mafergut (Nov 10, 2016)

My Cangfeng feels the same as their 2x2, a bit cheap. It's also a bit too loose out of the box but I assume that's easy to fix. It feels nice for the price but it's 62mm and I've become too fond of 60mm 4x4s that I didn't even give the cube an opportunity. The few solves I did with it showed some potential, though.

So, I wish you luck! 

EDIT: By the way, really nice picture, gentlemen. I already knew some faces from videos and WCA profile pics but not others so great to put faces to all of you. Maybe, one day I can meet some of you at some comp. The north of Spain would be a good point in between


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## newtonbase (Nov 10, 2016)

muchacho said:


> Nice photo! What's with the cubes? It seems it was the ones you got a PB in for some of you but not for others.



I just picked up the nearest one.


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## pipkiksass (Nov 10, 2016)

Ended up buying a Yuxin Blue stickerless from the puzzle store UK, because I'm impatient and there's nowhere I could get a Cyclone Boys other than China/HK or The Cubicle, and tbh I don't want to wait over a week for it!

I've got a fangshi which I'm going to strip the springs out of, but I'll be sure to let you all know how it feels out of the box vs. the Weisu and, if I decide to swap springs, what difference it makes.

I think the acid test for me will be how much difference it makes to my 3x3 on 4x4 stage. I'm currently averaging 19 on 3x3 and I'm sup 30 at the 3x3 stage on my Weisu because it's hard to turn. I think I'll be better off with 60mm anyway, but hopefully how it turns at the 3x3 stage will allow me to gauge the difference in the cubes. I'm too much of a noob to be able to judge a 4x4 on its own merits, but I know at the reduced 3x3 stage it's currently the cube holding me back.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## moralsh (Nov 10, 2016)

Nice photo indeed, I have added a bunch of you to facebook to try to get more of this stuff from you guys


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## Shaky Hands (Nov 10, 2016)

Cube delivery arrived today.

1 Dayan 46mm 2x2 - stickerless
2 Valk 3x3 - stickerless
1 QiYi 5x5 - stickerless
1 QiYi Square-1 - stickerless
10 (erm, stocked up for a while I think) Maru lube

This lunchtime I finally finished learning OLL for 2x2. It's probably evidence of how little I practice this event that I didn't do this 35 competition solves earlier. The Dayan is much more controllable than the YJ YuPo 2x2 that I'd been using before, or my first 2x2, a Shengshou that barely moved.

The Valk shows great promise and I will try to do an Ao100 soon with it.

The 5x5 turns well and I figured I would put this cube through its paces for a bit and see how it compares with the Yuxin.

I've been trying to learn Square-1 recently, something of a daunting task for me. A bit of a breakdown of where I'm at:

Cube Shape. I struggle with the intuitive edge-pairing part of this. I spend a lot of time trying to slice in positions where the corners are blocking the slice movement, often both on the U and D face. The algorithm part to form the Cube Shape is working its way into muscle memory for a couple of cases. Guess this will come with a bit more practice.
Moving corners to correct layers. Fairly easy. Seems like something that TPS could be beneficial for, but I'm not confident enough with the puzzle to try anything flash here yet. 
Moving edges to correct layers. Getting there, need more practice.
Corner permutation. For now I'm only planning on permuting one layer at a time so I guess I can say that I know 50% of the algs so far!
Edge permutation. I know a couple of basic cases including most of the long Parity algorithm that I'm considering one of these cases for now. Need more practice here. I mess up so often before this that I spend most of my time doing Cube Shape anyway.
Flip Middle layer. In muscle memory.
Swap top and bottom layer. In muscle memory. I don't know how to do both this and Flip Middle Layer at the same time but that looks a fairly simple alg to learn.
Fun puzzle and I'd hope to compete at this in future comps. Even if I'm not ready by the December comp in Birmingham, I should be by the first comp of 2017.


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## muchacho (Nov 10, 2016)

Why 2 Valks? Planning to put magnets on one of them? I'll try that on a 3x3 (even if it's probably bad for M moves) and on a 2x2.

Square-1 is fun. Yesterday I got another 2 Square-1 (a black and a white one) to replace the green of the stickerless, which was not that bad and also it bothered me less in this puzzle than in 3x3 for example, but it's better now for me.


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## Shaky Hands (Nov 10, 2016)

I was going to keep one at home and another for when I'm travelling. I hadn't considered magnets for any cubes really.


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## Selkie (Nov 10, 2016)

@muchacho - No real plan on what cube to hold was just an impulse thing of "Perhaps we should hold some cubes!" 

@Shaky Hands - Good to see you working on Square-1 Andy. Not sure if it will help but I learned originally from this PDF with teh added advantage of being in two stages of beginner then advanced .. http://www.kungfoomanchu.com/guides/andy-klise-square-1.pdf . As for swapping top and bottom and correcting middle, I used to do this but now try and plan so the middle is mis-aligned when I am due to swap top and bottom so it is faster to do a z2! If you need swap then fix middle you can do z2 / (6,0) / (6,0) /

Next step for me is to still do EP on top and bottom independently (less algs) but to solve bottom EP whilst it is still on the bottom to save any swaps. Same algs but need to learn them with U and D moved reversed.


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## bubbagrub (Nov 10, 2016)

Hey Andy,

Square 1 has been my favourite puzzle for the past few months. It was a real pain to get going with, but now I love it. Here are some thoughts (although I'm not super-fast, of course, so there are many better people to get advice from!):



Shaky Hands said:


> Cube Shape. I struggle with the intuitive edge-pairing part of this. I spend a lot of time trying to slice in positions where the corners are blocking the slice movement, often both on the U and D face. The algorithm part to form the Cube Shape is working its way into muscle memory for a couple of cases. Guess this will come with a bit more practice.



Definitely the hardest and most inconsistent bit for me. However, from just doing lots of practice solves (>2000) I've reached the point where 99% of the time I can figure out how to do cube shape. I did get one in the recent comp that really stumped me, but that's pretty rare now. So I think the answer is, predictably, just practice, and memorise the easy cases...



Shaky Hands said:


> Moving corners to correct layers. Fairly easy. Seems like something that TPS could be beneficial for, but I'm not confident enough with the puzzle to try anything flash here yet.



Took me a weirdly long time to get confident with this phase, but yes, it's definitely the simplest bit.



Shaky Hands said:


> Moving edges to correct layers. Getting there, need more practice.



Yep -- it's helpful to learn a few algs for this (adj-adj, adj-opp in particular as well as the case where you just have one edge to swap from top to bottom and the one where you have three edges to swap. And opp-opp is trivial but useful).



Shaky Hands said:


> Corner permutation. For now I'm only planning on permuting one layer at a time so I guess I can say that I know 50% of the algs so far!



Oh no! You should definitely do this the easy way! I.e., both layers at the same time. Seriously, the best alg to learn is the adj-adj one which comes up way more than 50% of solves and is the easiest alg to finger trick... it's this one:

/3,0/-3,-3/0,3/

You recognise it because you have a bar on the top and bottom, but corners are not solved on either layer. I.e., ignoring edges it's like two t-perms. The algs for doing one layer at a time are way longer and harder to learn.

It's also the alg I use for adj-adj EO. (It turns it into the really easy opp-opp case)



Shaky Hands said:


> Edge permutation. I know a couple of basic cases including most of the long Parity algorithm that I'm considering one of these cases for now. Need more practice here. I mess up so often before this that I spend most of my time doing Cube Shape anyway.



Probably the slowest and second most inconsistent part of my solve. I'd recommend learning the opp-parity alg as it's a lot easier than the adj one and it's possible about 80% of the time to force it. Best to know both, probably.



Shaky Hands said:


> Flip Middle layer. In muscle memory.
> Swap top and bottom layer. In muscle memory. I don't know how to do both this and Flip Middle Layer at the same time but that looks a fairly simple alg to learn.



Ah yes. Doing both at once is just:

/6,0/0,6/

Oh, and one overall tip to avoid the mistake I've made: I notice that everyone fast turns the right side up then down, then up then down. For me, I just go round and round in the same direction, which I guess is slower. I've retrained myself to do some of my algs the faster way and it's definitely helpful (no regrips). So if possible, I suggest you try to do that.

Have fun with it!


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## Shaky Hands (Nov 10, 2016)

Thanks for the advice @Selkie & @bubbagrub. I'll start timing myself when I'm a bit more competent and let you all know on my progress.


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## efattah (Nov 10, 2016)

Finally tuning my Weilong GTS-M and no words to describe it. Gans Air, Valk 3, ordinary Weilong-GTS; no comparison. Magnets are the future and allow for crazy low tensions. And this isn't an incremental thing. I'm finding that the very art of fingertricking needs to be re-invented. A magnetic cube allows very odd and partial finger tricks (especially on annoying moves like F'), and the magnets take care of aligning the slice. This has a tendency to 'even out' which faces are annoying to move and re-invents the definition of which variant of an algorithm is good or bad. I would go so far to say that with a magnetic cube and 'new' fingertricks, one could regenerate certain 'long standing' algorithms and find faster variants when using a magnetic cube.


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## pglewis (Nov 10, 2016)

@Shaky Hands: absolutely loving my QiYi 5x5, just one of those "joy to solve with" puzzles. I have no idea how well it would scale up for a faster solver but it sure is fun for me right now. 

Other ongoing puzzle impressions: 

I resisted the temptation to tighten my Valk 3 and it's not uncontrollable for me. Noticed a few times now that my Thunderclap feels the slightest bit sluggish all of a sudden. Last time that happened it was the Thunderclap vs. my AoLong V2, shortly before the Thunderclap overtook it as my main (back in the dark ages of... summer). 

I planned to test Thunderclap springs in my Mars just for grins but the centers have a cylinder the screw sits in and the spring goes around... and it's too large for the TC springs. I pulled out my old AoLong V2 stickerless for the first time in ages today and it was in need of a full cleaning, so the TC springs went in while I was at it. They certainly work fine in there but too many variables in play to evaluate (cleaned, wt 4 core, speedy pieces).


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## efattah (Nov 10, 2016)

pglewis said:


> @Shaky Hands:
> I resisted the temptation to tighten my Valk 3 and it's not uncontrollable for me.



With loose tensions I found the Valk 3 unbelievable, but it would pop/explode rather often. I had to tighten it, and this greatly diminished its performance and appeal.... The Gans Air on the other hand doesn't pop even at loose tensions.


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## pglewis (Nov 10, 2016)

efattah said:


> With loose tensions I found the Valk 3 unbelievable, but it would pop/explode rather often. I had to tighten it, and this greatly diminished its performance and appeal.... The Gans Air on the other hand doesn't pop even at loose tensions.



My Valk 3 is the Cubicle Premium version and I haven't tweaked their shipped setup. It was definitely on the fast side for me after only a couple dozen solves, I'm probably accustomed to slower setups. I love the overall feel of the Thunderclap and still enjoy solves on it more than the Valk but I seem to be able to do algs noticeably faster on the Valk. 

I also have a Cubicle premium Gans Air and it has never quite taken hold for me. Their setup is with the clear (S8) springs and that's all they ship it with. A young man at my comp had a Gans Air that was just incredibly fast but controllable for me, which is what prompted me to pick one up. I can't get there with mine, though. Looser tensions caused more catches and even toward some lockups for me; tighter tensions alleviate that but slow it down a lot. I'm unable to completely get rid of the catches without making it quite sluggish. It's really only aesthetic for the level I'm at tbh, but Valk doesn't do that for me at all. There's probably a magic spring-set for my style though, I've already felt the potential of Gans. Also in the back of my mind is it may be a good OH cube for me with the stability, if I ever consider OH.


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## pipkiksass (Nov 10, 2016)

I bought a Valk 3 a month ago, and didn't tinker with it other than to lube the pieces a little. It was fast out of the box. 

About 3 days ago I dismantled it and lubed the core. I set it very loose, and it popped every few solves, but was still very fast. I tightened each face evenly until it stopped popping, then gave it a full 1 1/2 turns per side just for fun. It's still ridiculously fast, but the lube makes it controllable. Even on relatively tight tensions, I don't get much locking at ALL. 

Loving 4x4, by the way. How did I not get in to this when I cubed previously? Presumably time constraints, which just aren't an issue for me at the moment. I'm well under 3 minutes already, after 17 timed solves and maybe a dozen untimed. Best single so far is 2:22.79, which was a PLL skip... but with both OLL and PLL parity!

Ventured into 5x5 with an old ShengShou earlier, after which going back to my Weisu 4x4 feels comparatively fluid and easy to turn!!! Not a surprise that the world records have dropped like a stone since someone other than V cube and ShengShou started making higher-order cubes. 5x5 is interesting - did it all intuitively up to last 2 tredges, what's THAT stage all about?? Couldn't for the life of me figure out what to do, so googled and found a tedious number of cases to worry about. I looked up the specific case, but it's put a bit of a downer on 5x5 for me. Not sure if I'll invest in a good 5x5 yet...

@pglewis - what is it about 5x5 that you love so much? I like building centres VERY much, but then this last 2 tredges thing has really put me off.

@efattah - interested to hear more about the GTS-M. Do you have a 'standard' GTS to compare it with?


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## One Wheel (Nov 10, 2016)

pipkiksass said:


> 5x5 is interesting - did it all intuitively up to last 2 tredges, what's THAT stage all about?? Couldn't for the life of me figure out what to do, so googled and found a tedious number of cases to worry about. I looked up the specific case, but it's put a bit of a downer on 5x5 for me. Not sure if I'll invest in a good 5x5 yet...



I don't think I'm alone in using the slice - flip - slice back method to reduce all 5x5 l2e to either edge parity or no edge parity.


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## pglewis (Nov 11, 2016)

pipkiksass said:


> Best single so far is 2:22.79, which was a PLL skip... but with both OLL and PLL parity!



My mid 2 was both parities as well yet still a serious outlier for me. I've just ducked 3 mins a handful of other times in the 2:50s. Just that one solve where my look-ahead was practically seamless (for me).



pipkiksass said:


> what is it about 5x5 that you love so much? I like building centres VERY much, but then this last 2 tredges thing has really put me off.



A good part of it is because it's new, I'm sure . I also just enjoy turning the QiYi, I find it relaxing just hand-scrambling it absentmindedly.

I worked out how to deal with the l2e without learning anything new. I either end up with a single tredge with the edge flipped (stick it on UF for me and do a slightly modified 4x4 OLL parity with wider R/L turns), or with two tredges I can set them up so they solve basically the same way as my 4x4 l2e. Not highly efficient I'm sure but that's hardly what's holding my up times.


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## h2f (Nov 11, 2016)

Andy @Shaky Hands, Ben @bubbagrub, Mark @newtonbase, Mark @mark49152, Chris @Selkie, Mike @Logiqx:
Can I use the photo posted by Chris in my weekly vlog. I want to say some words about community of older speedcubers, age and times achived by older cubers etc.?


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## Selkie (Nov 11, 2016)

Absolutely fine with me @h2f Grzegorz


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## mark49152 (Nov 11, 2016)

Selkie said:


> Absolutely fine with me @h2f Grzegorz


Fine with me too.

@pipkiksass: As others have said, 5x5 parity can be intuitively reduced to the single "checkerboard" tredge that can be solved using a variant of 4x4 parity. That's the easiest way. Alternatively, you could use AvG or chain pairing for edge reduction. This matches wings to midges one at a time, which makes for simpler lookahead, and also means that when you do get parity, it's the case where each of the L2E already has one wing/midge pair formed. Thus you need only one parity alg, Rw U2 Rw U2 x U2 Rw U2 3Rw' U2 Lw U2 Rw2 (plus occasionally the checkerboard fix). For other edge reduction methods, I suspect you could apply that same alg to solve parity and modify the L2E into a state that can be solved intuitively.


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## bubbagrub (Nov 11, 2016)

Selkie said:


> Absolutely fine with me @h2f Grzegorz


Yes, no problem.


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## newtonbase (Nov 11, 2016)

h2f said:


> Andy @Shaky Hands, Ben @bubbagrub, Mark @newtonbase, Mark @mark49152, Chris @Selkie, Mike @Logiqx:
> Can I use the photo posted by Chris in my weekly vlog. I want to say some words about community of older speedcubers, age and times achived by older cubers etc.?


Of course.


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## JohnnyReggae (Nov 11, 2016)

pglewis said:


> I also have a Cubicle premium Gans Air and it has never quite taken hold for me. Their setup is with the clear (S8) springs and that's all they ship it with. A young man at my comp had a Gans Air that was just incredibly fast but controllable for me, which is what prompted me to pick one up. I can't get there with mine, though. Looser tensions caused more catches and even toward some lockups for me; tighter tensions alleviate that but slow it down a lot. I'm unable to completely get rid of the catches without making it quite sluggish.


I've had to work on my Air to get it close to where I like it, it still needs some work. I've had to loosen the screws in both the corners and edges to eliminate some of the constant catches. I've changed GES sets a few times and eventually settled on the clear ones which I did a few thousand solves with, and just recently changed to the Yellow set. The Air is a strange puzzle in that after a while it doesn't seem to matter which GES set you are using it kind of settles to the same feel. Unlike other puzzles the Air does seem to require work to make it better. If it wasn't for the price tag I would not bother with all the work and move onto another cube to be honest, but .... the Air does have a great feel and I would tend to go for either the Air or GAN V2 over my other 3x3's ... the Yeuxiao is a close behind though ... very close


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## Logiqx (Nov 11, 2016)

Sure. Feel free @h2f


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## h2f (Nov 11, 2016)

Thank you all. I let you know when I do this because it's only idea in my head and I have few topics I want to talk about.


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## mafergut (Nov 11, 2016)

One Wheel said:


> I don't think I'm alone in using the slice - flip - slice back method to reduce all 5x5 l2e to either edge parity or no edge parity.


Yep, another one here that uses the same basic method. But also answering to @pipkiksass question, what I like about 5x5 is that it takes "the right time" to solve for me. 2x2 and 3x3 are pure speed events and 6x6 and up just take a lot of time for me to solve at the moment. 4x4 I also enjoy it a lot but I'm frustrated that most of my good solves up to edge pairing I end up somehow having double parity so, the elusive sub-1 min solve is still... well, elusive  But 5x5 is a good compromise between speed and boredom. Maybe if I ever get closer to the 2min barrier I will start to experience the same frustration for not being able to break sub-2 but for now it's one of the events I like the most. It also does not have any parities during 3x3 stage. Of course there can be some variance from solve to solve depending on how easy / difficult L4E stage gets. Right now most my sub-3min solves are due to easy L4E as my centers and F8E are more or less consistent...ly slow


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## phreaker (Nov 11, 2016)

JohnnyReggae said:


> I've had to work on my Air to get it close to where I like it, it still needs some work. I've had to loosen the screws in both the corners and edges to eliminate some of the constant catches. I've changed GES sets a few times and eventually settled on the clear ones which I did a few thousand solves with, and just recently changed to the Yellow set. The Air is a strange puzzle in that after a while it doesn't seem to matter which GES set you are using it kind of settles to the same feel. Unlike other puzzles the Air does seem to require work to make it better. If it wasn't for the price tag I would not bother with all the work and move onto another cube to be honest, but .... the Air does have a great feel and I would tend to go for either the Air or GAN V2 over my other 3x3's ... the Yeuxiao is a close behind though ... very close



I feel much the same about the Air. Until I tried my Valk. Then my Air has been left aside for now, the air is too catchy for my tastes in general. I think magnets are my next cube playground.


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## mafergut (Nov 11, 2016)

phreaker said:


> I feel much the same about the Air. Until I tried my Valk. Then my Air has been left aside for now, the air is too catchy for my tastes in general. I think magnets are my next cube playground.


I fully agree about the Valk retiring all my other cubes. I wouldn't say "even my Air" as I never really got to like it, but I would say "even my Yuxiao"  In fact looking at it in retrospect I knew buying an Air was a bad idea as I hated the Gans 357 but I could not resist. With that money I could have bought a QiYi WuHua to have at least a 2nd 6x6 to compare the Yuxin with


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## pipkiksass (Nov 11, 2016)

mafergut said:


> I fully agree about the Valk retiring all my other cubes.



I decided to give away most of my old 3x3s yesterday.







This is my (modest by present company's standards) collection as it stood yesterday, minus a SS Aurora, which I'd already given to my daughter, and a HuanYing, which I gave to a friend.

The unsolved cube is a Rubik's brand, which my wife made me throw away unsolved, just to prove I can leave a cube unsolved. 

There's a Fangshi, which will be used for a spring swap with my Yuxin 4x4, which I should have tomorrow.

The SS 4x4 and the white Zhanchi at the back are going to my niece in Canada. 

The mini Zhanchi is going to my nephew, leaving me with just my Valk and 3 Weilongs (black v1, primary v1, and stickerless v2 mini). 

I did a few solves on each, just to see if they could compete with my Valk and they are just nowhere near. Maybe one day, if I start MBLD, I will need more 3x3s. For now, I'm down to 4!!!

Re: 5x5, thanks for all the advice, I was distinctly put off when I thought I had lots of individual cases to learn, I'm much more keen if they can be reduced to parity/no parity cases. Maybe when I'm pushing for the world record I will need the many last 2 tredge cases???!!!

I'll have a play and see if I can work it out on my own... how do I set up the cube to solve parity with my 4x4 OLL parity alg? Presumably edges at UF and UB?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Shaky Hands (Nov 11, 2016)

@pipkiksass I used this when learning 5x5 edge parity. Hopefully this shows the angle from which to use the 4x4 OLL Parity for 5x5 Edge Parity.






I know cases 1, 2, 3, 5, 9 and 10. I realise 4 is a mirror or 3 but I tend to mess it up. 5 is incredibly easy to learn. 9 and 10 I learned because I frequently got those cases and they're easy to recognise. As others say you can get by with minimal cases in 5x5 or use edge pairing to influence the case to something you know.


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## phreaker (Nov 11, 2016)

mafergut said:


> I fully agree about the Valk retiring all my other cubes. I wouldn't say "even my Air" as I never really got to like it, but I would say "even my Yuxiao"  In fact looking at it in retrospect I knew buying an Air was a bad idea as I hated the Gans 357 but I could not resist. With that money I could have bought a QiYi WuHua to have at least a 2nd 6x6 to compare the Yuxin with



I like my AIR in some ways... I actually want to revisit it when I do my next round of cube smithing. I got some calipers in, files, etc.. I have the tools I need... now to measure, get magnets etc.. and see what makes sense .

I realize it won't drop my times, but... it'll be fun, and in the end, I do this to have fun.


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## mark49152 (Nov 11, 2016)

4BLD PB 5:29, my 5th sub-6. Targets were 16/22/8.


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## h2f (Nov 11, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> 4BLD PB 5:29, my 5th sub-6. Targets were 16/22/8.


Wow. Very nice. Im only sub8.


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## Logiqx (Nov 11, 2016)

I walked into Argos the other day and saw the catalogue open on this page.


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## mark49152 (Nov 11, 2016)

h2f said:


> Wow. Very nice. Im only sub8.


I did lots of practice in the last month before UKC and knocked more than 2 minutes off my times. After UKC I'm still enjoying 4BLD and improving, although I will switch to 5BLD soon, for Birmingham.


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## h2f (Nov 11, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> I did lots of practice in the last month before UKC and knocked more than 2 minutes off my times. After UKC I'm still enjoying 4BLD and improving, although I will switch to 5BLD soon, for Birmingham.


Im back to practice due to Polish Natonals next month. I enjoy 4bld too.


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## mafergut (Nov 11, 2016)

Shaky Hands said:


> @pipkiksass I used this when learning 5x5 edge parity. Hopefully this shows the angle from which to use the 4x4 OLL Parity for 5x5 Edge Parity.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Trying to do an analysis to see if it's worth it to learn the algs.
- Case 1 is the "parity" case.
- Case 3 and 4 are no brainers as just doing one pair by slice & flip the other ends up done as well.
- Case 5 is also easy, as just slicing the middle layer & flipping both pairs are done.
- Case 6 and 7 I just do two slice & flips and done. A bit longer than the algs but not too bad. I might learn the algs as the cases are easy to recognize and the alg is also pretty easy.
- Case 2 I do one tredge but then I end up with "parity" in the other so this might be interesting to learn as well, as it's easy to recognize.
- Case 8 takes me two slice & flips to finish one tredge and ends up with "parity" in the other so I could save a lot of moves but the alg has too many B2s 
- Cases 9 and 10 I would do 1 slice & flip and also end with parity in the other but the algs seem longish


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## Shaky Hands (Nov 11, 2016)

@mafergut - #9 and #10 flow quite well for me. It has a bit of rhythm to it I think.


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## mark49152 (Nov 11, 2016)

Remember those are not all parity (3, 4, 5 aren't, maybe others too). Parity is when two wings are switched and cannot be solved without rearranging some centres. Without parity, most cases are easy to solve intuitively by slice-and-flip. With parity, you can apply ANY parity alg (like, the easiest/fastest) and you will fix that wings/centres problem, meaning that even if your alg doesn't fully solve the case you've at least changed it to one that's easy to solve intuitively.


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## pipkiksass (Nov 11, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> Remember those are not all parity (3, 4, 5 aren't, maybe others too). Parity is when two wings are switched and cannot be solved without rearranging some centres. Without parity, most cases are easy to solve intuitively by slice-and-flip. With parity, you can apply ANY parity alg (like, the easiest/fastest) and you will fix that wings/centres problem, meaning that even if your alg doesn't fully solve the case you've at least changed it to one that's easy to solve intuitively.



That's my plan, I don't want to be breaking records, just want to be able to solve reliably and enjoy the puzzle without getting frustrated. I did the whole thing intuitively up to last 2 tredges, which had parity. 

Earlier I did my second ever 5x5 solve, which had parity again, so I tried my 4x4 OLL parity alg with bad tredges UF and UB. It did make them solvable, but also messed up another tredge. Didn't mind, but I'd rather know why what I was doing helped to solve the puzzle. I'm currently AFP (away from puzzle), but will tinker some more later.

In other news, did about 60 3x3 solves earlier, and my rolling average for my main timer session c.700 solves) is now sub 20, and my Ao100 is nearly sub-19. Think I'm bordering on being faster than before I quit.

Next week is OLL week again, after bigger cube week this week!

Might try Noah's 3BLD tutorial one day but, from what I've read on this thread and elsewhere, I'm slightly concerned that BLD is life-consuming!!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Logiqx (Nov 11, 2016)

Shaky Hands said:


> @pipkiksass I used this when learning 5x5 edge parity.



Here's my personal version. It shows all of the L2E cases, distinguishes parity and also shows probabilities.

http://cubing.mikeg.me.uk/Big/L2E.pdf


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## efattah (Nov 11, 2016)

Based on the above posts I fiddled with the Valk 3 tensions. I finally found that with exactly the correct tension, it is very fast without popping, but the tension needs to be exact! Even slightly looser and it pops; slightly tighter and it is slow. But when fixed correctly, it is amazing. As fast as the fastest Weilong GTS but way more controllable.


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## pglewis (Nov 11, 2016)

pipkiksass said:


> Earlier I did my second ever 5x5 solve, which had parity again, so I tried my 4x4 OLL parity alg with bad tredges UF and UB. It did make them solvable, but also messed up another tredge.



I just replaced all my slice moves with 3 wide slice moves: https://alg.cubing.net/?puzzle=5x5x...U2_3Rw-_U2_3Lw_U2_3Rw-_U2_3Rw_U2_3Rw-_U2_3Rw-


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## mark49152 (Nov 11, 2016)

pipkiksass said:


> Might try Noah's 3BLD tutorial one day but, from what I've read on this thread and elsewhere, I'm slightly concerned that BLD is life-consuming!!!


Yes be very concerned. BLD is the dark side...


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## CLL Smooth (Nov 11, 2016)

Sub-15 Ao12!!!
Particularly happy about this and no one in my normal life cares. Except Chris, and I already texted him.
So, I gloat...


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## Jason Green (Nov 11, 2016)

CLL Smooth said:


> Sub-15 Ao12!!!
> Particularly happy about this and no one in my normal life cares. Except Chris, and I already texted him.
> So, I gloat...


You have to post stuff like this, it motivates all of us!

Finally catching up on a couple days of posts, usually I find time to read off and on at work more to stay current. 

Anyone see speed cube review's videos on making a magnetic GTS? It looks quite easy. I'm thinking I'll either do that or order a Valk magnetic eventually (if they are offering it?).


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## muchacho (Nov 12, 2016)

Yeah, it looks easy and I have a GTS that I don't use, so I ordered some magnets... and I'll make it stickerless:





It may ending being a very good cube for me, or just trash.


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## newtonbase (Nov 12, 2016)

Jason Green said:


> You have to post stuff like this, it motivates all of us!
> 
> Finally catching up on a couple days of posts, usually I find time to read off and on at work more to stay current.
> 
> Anyone see speed cube review's videos on making a magnetic GTS? It looks quite easy. I'm thinking I'll either do that or order a Valk magnetic eventually (if they are offering it?).





muchacho said:


> Yeah, it looks easy and I have a GTS that I don't use, so I ordered some magnets... and I'll make it stickerless:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Funnily enough I was looking at this myself last night but hadn't seen the video. The Valk looked like the pieces didn't come apart so I was planning on replacing the missing piece on my GTS to do it. I tried a GTS M recently and it was very nice.


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## mafergut (Nov 12, 2016)

Logiqx said:


> Here's my personal version. It shows all of the L2E cases, distinguishes parity and also shows probabilities.
> 
> http://cubing.mikeg.me.uk/Big/L2E.pdf


Thanks a lot Mike. Wonderful cheat sheet for L2E. I like the split in parity/non-parity and the names that help remembering the case like the slash/backslash, etc.

With all this chat about this I am now motivated and I think this Christmas I will try to learn them all (or some at least) and see if this improves my times a bit towards sub-3min. Do you know and use them all? If so, how much time do you think they're worth?


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## Lid (Nov 12, 2016)

My take on L2E for 5x5:
You only need to know one alg for parity, for me it's case #2 of pipkiksass picture.
As for the non parity I "know" 3,4,5 (match flip cases) & 6 (=PLL parity), 7 can be done with 2 match-flip, and the remaining 4 parity cases I first do #2 then I always get a match-flip case.


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## mark49152 (Nov 12, 2016)

Another of my two cents on 5x5. For me, the biggest factor in my improvement from sup-3 to low-2 was lookahead. The difference between a fast and slow solve is how fluid my centres, Hoya edges and edge pairing are. Lookahead is vital to all three phases to keep them moving, and also to F2L. Plus, use inspection to make a strong start on centres. I plan the first 2x3 block and expect to complete it in a couple of seconds while looking ahead for the pieces required to complete that centre. IMHO those things are more important than learning L2E algs.


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## newtonbase (Nov 12, 2016)

I've ordered some magnets.


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## Logiqx (Nov 12, 2016)

mafergut said:


> Thanks a lot Mike. Wonderful cheat sheet for L2E. I like the split in parity/non-parity and the names that help remembering the case like the slash/backslash, etc.
> 
> With all this chat about this I am now motivated and I think this Christmas I will try to learn them all (or some at least) and see if this improves my times a bit towards sub-3min. Do you know and use them all? If so, how much time do you think they're worth?



Quick notes about the original post from @Shaky Hands:
- 1 2 8 9 10 are parity cases (5 of the 8 that exist). Case 9 can also be solved RrU
- 3 4 5 6 7 aren't parity cases (5 of the 7 that exist... 8th case is solved)

I created my cheat sheet using a number of sources (Meep, Sarah Strong, Sir Waffle, Andy Klise, Big Cubes to name a few). I think I had to document my own intuitive solutions for a couple of the simple cases as well since they didn't appear in any of the guides. I recognise the images that Andy posted; Sir Waffle iirc.

I noticed that all of the L2E alg sources showed slightly different cases and I was intrigued by comments about the "rarest case" (originating from Big Cubes). I decided to create a definitive list of cases (16 in total) and their respective probabilities (1/12 or 1/24). I had a good conversation with @mark49152 where we bounced ideas around and confirmed the cases / probabilities from two different perspectives. It was a bit of a head scratcher but it was a fun activity!

I used to know all of the non-parity cases plus OLL Parity (tweak to my standard 4x4 alg) and Double Parity (some peoples standard 4x4 alg). I've subsequently forgotten the "PLL Parity" alg (AKA "Double Wing Swap with Flipped Midges") and Double Parity after a long break from 5x5. I might re-learn those two as they complemented each other and the double wing swap, looking similar when you ignore the subtlety of flipped edges.

I'll create a L2E page like my OLL/PLL/COLL algs at some time in the future but for now the PDF will suffice - http://cubing.mikeg.me.uk/Big/L2E.pdf

I agree with others on this topic. The biggest improvements are going to be from look ahead during centres, edges and F2L.


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## SenorJuan (Nov 12, 2016)

"I've ordered some magnets."

Magnetic therapy, to ease away the aches and pains in your tired old muscles? HeHe.

Seriously, as I've done a fair bit of hacking and modifying cubes over the years to try and make them halfway-decent, I hope your experiments are productive.

And don't swallow any of them.


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## mark49152 (Nov 12, 2016)

Not PB but I'm pleased with the 2:35 execution, only a bit over double what it takes me sighted.


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## RicardoRix (Nov 12, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> Not PB but I'm pleased with the 2:35 execution, only a bit over double what it takes me sighted.


nicely done. what's with the little cube shake ticks?


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## h2f (Nov 12, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> Not PB but I'm pleased with the 2:35 execution, only a bit over double what it takes me sighted.


Nice solve Mark. Very fluid and I think the hardest part for you were corners in the end. Your times show me the limits of my current skill - I mean although I can do all with 3style (centers, edege, corners) my times are much slower than yours, even if we compare execution. Mine is around 3 minutes, yours is much faster. Very nice.

And one more thing although I think you are aware of this - blinds methods are not moves efficient. If we compare 3bld and 3x3 speedsolves the difference is around 1.5-1.7. If CFOP solve is around 56 in average bld solves are around 90 (I'm not sure that number but when I reconstruct my solves they are around that number). I dont know how this is when comparing 4x4 and 4bld but it might be the same. Knowing it it's hard to compare solving stage of 4bld with solving 4x4 in a speedsolve.


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## bubbagrub (Nov 12, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> Not PB but I'm pleased with the 2:35 execution, only a bit over double what it takes me sighted.



Wow -- I'm not sure I'd realised quite how mind-blowingly good at this you are, Mark! This solve would be around 73rd in the world, if official, and your PB would be 67th!


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## mafergut (Nov 13, 2016)

Yeah, it's not that I think I'll improve a lot by learning some of those L2E algs but they will not hurt either. Of course I need to work on lookahead if I ever want to get close to 2min as some of you guys.


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## muchacho (Nov 13, 2016)

Inspired by 6.44 ao100 average by Feliks I'm trying to finally get a sub-20 mo100... probably not going to make it today because I've just got a 44 seconds 10 solves ago, but the rest of the solves are fine. Ao5 PB so far: 16.097 (it was 16.465)

31960 13-nov-2016 9:55:14 00:14.047 R2 D' F2 R2 F2 D B2 D' F2 R2 U2 B U B2 F' D B R' U R2 U2
31959 13-nov-2016 9:54:34 00:18.462 F2 D' B2 D F2 L2 F2 U' F2 L2 U2 F' U R B' R B F2 D L F2 L
31958 13-nov-2016 9:53:53 00:14.478 D2 B2 U' L2 U F2 U' F2 U' R2 U' F R' D2 B' R' L' D U' F D L2
31957 13-nov-2016 9:53:14 00:19.806 R2 U F2 R2 U R2 L2 U2 B2 L2 D L' B R' B2 F U' F R' B F R2
31956 13-nov-2016 9:52:34 00:15.351 D2 F2 R2 F2 U L2 U' B2 D2 F2 U' B D2 B2 L B' R' U L2 F' L'


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## mark49152 (Nov 13, 2016)

RicardoRix said:


> nicely done. what's with the little cube shake ticks?


Thanks Richard. Habit I guess, when I'm thinking/recalling under time pressure, but I'm not aware I'm doing it.



h2f said:


> Nice solve Mark. Very fluid and I think the hardest part for you were corners in the end.


Thanks Grzegorz. I still have to think a bit more between commutators than I do for one-piece-at-a-time methods. That's evident from my 3BLD video from UKC too. And I take more care not to ruin big cube solves at the final step . But it's not hard. I'm pretty comfortable with corner comms now.



h2f said:


> I dont know how this is when comparing 4x4 and 4bld but it might be the same. Knowing it it's hard to compare solving stage of 4bld with solving 4x4 in a speedsolve.


Yes I wouldn't usually compare them that way and don't know how legitimate it is. This solve also had faster execution because of no parities.



bubbagrub said:


> Wow -- I'm not sure I'd realised quite how mind-blowingly good at this you are, Mark! This solve would be around 73rd in the world, if official, and your PB would be 67th!


Thanks Ben. Doing it officially is hard though. There are so few chances and it's harder to memo when putting oneself under pressure . It would be nice to get a top 100 ranking but I'm happy as long as I'm improving and enjoying the event.


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## h2f (Nov 13, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> And I take more care not to ruin big cube solves at the final step . But it's not hard. I'm pretty comfortable with corner comms now.



That's the same with me. The bigger cube is the bigger care is.


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## mark49152 (Nov 13, 2016)

h2f said:


> That's the same with me. The bigger cube is the bigger care is.


My first sub-20 5BLD was ruined by twisting a corner the wrong way right at the end


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## pipkiksass (Nov 13, 2016)

@mark49152, that 4BLD solve is RIDICULOUSLY impressive. Having just learnt 4x4 sighted (just had my first sub-2 single, whoop), I couldn't even begin to imagine what must be going on in your brain to solve it blindfolded. I understand the theory of 3BLD, but still... 

In other news, while waiting for my Chinese food last night there was a kid of about 11 with a Gans 3x3 who I reckon was about a 60s solver. He did 4 different OLLs one solve, and quite slowly. I resisted the urge to go over and show off, but almost wish I had!!

Just nice to see another cuber IRL, it's a first for me!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## h2f (Nov 13, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> My first sub-20 5BLD was ruined by twisting a corner the wrong way right at the end




I know the feeling. Geuss why?


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## mafergut (Nov 13, 2016)

muchacho said:


> Inspired by 6.44 ao100 average by Feliks I'm trying to finally get a sub-20 mo100... probably not going to make it today because I've just got a 44 seconds 10 solves ago, but the rest of the solves are fine. Ao5 PB so far: 16.097 (it was 16.465)


Very nice Ao5, David. You're catching up half a second at a time. Your next PB Ao5 will be beating mine 
I'm entering my last two weeks before I take my certification assessment at my company so I will be mostly missing for these couple of weeks. Hope I'll be back on December 1st


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## pglewis (Nov 13, 2016)

pglewis said:


> ... QiYi WuShuang 5x5: After my first 4x4 I realized I'll likely go stickerless on all my bigger cubes from here on out, so that's the one I got. Feels fantastic to me and makes me wonder why there doesn't seem to be a 4x4 this good right out of the box. ...



Just saw that the 4x4 in their Wu* series is being released. Must have.


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## pglewis (Nov 13, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> Fine with me too.
> 
> @pipkiksass: As others have said, 5x5 parity can be intuitively reduced to the single "checkerboard" tredge that can be solved using a variant of 4x4 parity. That's the easiest way. Alternatively, you could use AvG or chain pairing for edge reduction. This matches wings to midges one at a time, which makes for simpler lookahead, and also means that when you do get parity, it's the case where each of the L2E already has one wing/midge pair formed. Thus you need only one parity alg, Rw U2 Rw U2 x U2 Rw U2 3Rw' U2 Lw U2 Rw2 (plus occasionally the checkerboard fix). For other edge reduction methods, I suspect you could apply that same alg to solve parity and modify the L2E into a state that can be solved intuitively.



I'm curious about the mechanics of other edge methods. I'm using Yau on 4x4 initially, that was kind of the direction I was instinctively heading myself before discovering it. With the amount of work for 5x5 centers I quickly found it restrictive trying to apply it there and pretty much figured out freeslice on my own. Specifically on 5x5, I've been solving my cross tredges first, and even solve the cross as I'm doing so, figuring it helps me to have the B face devoid of unsolved edges. My Google-fu is failing me for finding info on AvG or chain pairing.


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## One Wheel (Nov 13, 2016)

pglewis said:


> I'm curious about the mechanics of other edge methods. I'm using Yau on 4x4 initially, that was kind of the direction I was instinctively heading myself before discovering it. With the amount of work for 5x5 centers I quickly found it restrictive trying to apply it there and pretty much figured out freeslice on my own. Specifically on 5x5, I've been solving my cross tredges first, and even solve the cross as I'm doing so, figuring it helps me to have the B face devoid of unsolved edges. My Google-fu is failing me for finding info on AvG or chain pairing.



I learned Yau for 4x4, and liked it, so I've adapted it for 5 and 6. I solve two opposite centers first, and I like the freedom of not worrying about preserving centers while edge pairing, so I solve and place the first three cross edges I see in any order. Then I solve l4c, and freeslice to solve my last cross edge, which depending on orientation I prefer to insert from FR with R U R U' R2 or BR with R' U' R' U R2. That leaves eight locations to find my pieces for the next four edges, which I freeslice.


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## mark49152 (Nov 13, 2016)

pglewis said:


> My Google-fu is failing me for finding info on AvG or chain pairing.


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## Jason Green (Nov 14, 2016)

pipkiksass said:


> @mark49152, that 4BLD solve is RIDICULOUSLY impressive. Having just learnt 4x4 sighted (just had my first sub-2 single, whoop), I couldn't even begin to imagine what must be going on in your brain to solve it blindfolded. I understand the theory of 3BLD, but still...
> 
> In other news, while waiting for my Chinese food last night there was a kid of about 11 with a Gans 3x3 who I reckon was about a 60s solver. He did 4 different OLLs one solve, and quite slowly. I resisted the urge to go over and show off, but almost wish I had!!
> 
> ...


I saw probably a 6 and 4 year old girl eating out once with cubes, so I went and talked to them then went and got mine out of the car. The older sister could solve in a couple minutes I think, I was probably around 30 secs at the time?? It was fun.


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## pglewis (Nov 14, 2016)

@One Wheel: I'll probably give Yau a shot again soon. I adjusted easily on 4x4 but I'm just so bad at centers on 5x5 I gave up on Yau early. 

@mark49152: On 4x4 I align things so that 3 dedges will pair up with one slice, so is that what's called "chain pairing"? Trying to get the terminology down (just figured out today that "freeslice" is officially what I've been doing on 5x5).


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## mark49152 (Nov 14, 2016)

pglewis said:


> @mark49152: On 4x4 I align things so that 3 dedges will pair up with one slice, so is that what's called "chain pairing"? Trying to get the terminology down (just figured out today that "freeslice" is officially what I've been doing on 5x5).


No that sounds like 3-2-3 or 6-6. "Chain pairing" is what someone (experienced) called AvG when I described it to them once, but I haven't heard that terminology often. AvG applies to 5x5 and up and is as described is his video linked above (Arnaud van Galen). I don't do it exactly as he does, but the principle is that rather than solve a whole tredge in one go, you just match up pieces two at a time, wing and centre, until all the tredges are done. 

Here are the very basics. It works best with Yau or Hoya but you can start with any 5x5 cube with centres solved.

1. Look at the wing at FLu. Find the corresponding midge. Insert that midge at FR with the opposite colour in front. Now when you slice the top two layers with Uw', the wing and midge will be paired.

2. Before you do the slice, look at the wing at FRu. The one next to the midge you just placed. After you slice, you're going to find the midge that matches this wing, and insert to FR with the same orientation. Then when you slice back with Uw, these two will be paired. 

That's it. Obviously there are complications to deal with, but the concept is simple. You just keep slicing forward and backward pairing up wings and midges until it's all done or you get to an L2E parity case. It's very similar to the 2-3 steps of 3-2-3 on 4x4.

The advantage of the method is simplicity and easy lookahead. You are only ever searching for midges. That's only one third of the edge pieces to scan so it is much easier to keep moving and avoid those nasty long pauses. The consensus seems to be that it is a little less move efficient than freeslice, but IMHO it is a small enough difference that unless you are the top level it's worth trading it off in favour of developing lookahead, TPS and good familiarity with the cube overall.


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## Selkie (Nov 14, 2016)

@mark49152 - Awesome 4BLD solve there, just wow mate 

So apparently Marty has had a delivery of Qiyi WuHua 6x6's. I'll be hovering about the store waiting this evening. Really want to put a lot of effort into 4x4 and 6x6 for Birmingham Open and yes and of course now 3BLD too


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## pipkiksass (Nov 14, 2016)

An update on the Yuxin spring debate - my Yuxin Blue arrived on Saturday, during the 30 minutes of the week that I was out of the house (grr), so didn't get it until today. 

Out of the box, it had a very smooth, almost papery feel, not dissimilar to the FangShi Shuangren. VERY smooth, but a bit resistant to being turned.

I was intending to do some solves, break it in a bit, time some 3x3 and 4x4 solves, then consider whether I should do a spring swap... when I had a small internal pop while scrambling. Thought I'd soldier on, when I had an internal explosion on OLL parity. So I've yet to solve it!







So seeing as I've had to disassemble anyway, thought I'd do the spring swap at the same time. I did notice that the Yuxin springs are VERY stiff, while the Fanghi springs are exactly the same size, but much much softer.

I won't have time to reassemble until later, but should have a good idea tonight of how the cube actually solves!!!!!


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## earth2dan (Nov 14, 2016)

@mark49152 Wow! like everyone else I'm blown away by that 4BLD. I still haven't had a successful 3BLD attempt and I spend longer than 2min just trying to memo. I know blind solving takes a lot of practice, but you possess a natural talent my friend 

Regarding 5x5 L2E. My plan has always been to wait until I'm much closer to 2:00 to learn them. I've only learned the one parity case, for everything else I swap/edgeflip. I estimate that learning them all will net me 5 - 10 seconds. So I'll wait until I get down to 2:05 - 2:10 to learn more algs. Might be a while lol...

I still really like my Yuxin Blue 4x4. No spring swap, just a meticulous set up and break in. Though, it's about due for some maintenance as it's slowing down again due to the tensions. In fairness, my cyclone boys G4 is getting a lot more play again lately. I've never lubed or adjusted tensions on the G4, it just needed to be broken in. It seems the Yuxin Blue takes a lot of work to make it great, and keep it that way. Whereas, once broken in, the G4 is basically maintenance free.

It's been 5 months since my last cube order and lots of new puzzles have released. I know I don't need any more, but I'm getting the itch


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## mafergut (Nov 14, 2016)

earth2dan said:


> @mark49152 Wow! like everyone else I'm blown away by that 4BLD. I still haven't had a successful 3BLD attempt and I spend longer than 2min just trying to memo. I know blind solving takes a lot of practice, but you possess a natural talent my friend
> 
> Regarding 5x5 L2E. My plan has always been to wait until I'm much closer to 2:00 to learn them. I've only learned the one parity case, for everything else I swap/edgeflip. I estimate that learning them all will net me 5 - 10 seconds. So I'll wait until I get down to 2:05 - 2:10 to learn more algs. Might be a while lol...
> 
> ...



I didn't say anything about @mark49152 4BLD solve... mainly because it left me speechless. No, really, I didn't say anything because I had no time to watch the video until now but it really left me speechless. There's so much BLD talent in this forum...! You are a cubing professional. I feel like an "aficionado" in comparison.

@earth2dan Your estimate of the time savings for L2E by learning the algs is more or less what I expect as well. Not a lot but enough to make it worth it. But I won't wait until 2:10 average or maybe I will never try to learn them 

Regarding the Yuxin Blue it's a pity what you say. It almost takes away all my desire to do the spring swap and assembly, lubing and tensioning. There are more interesting things I can do with my spare time this Christmas if it's not gonna become godly 

And same here with cube orders. In my case it's been like two months, the last thing I got was the Moyu Magnetic Pyra but I might buy myself something for Christmas. The other day I saw a brick & mortar store in my city that sells some interesting cubes, imported and repackaged by Cayro Toys. They were out of stock of Meffert's Ghost but I might get one if they have it again. They also had Meffert's Skweb Ultimate (dodecahedron) and other stuff. It's the first time I see these thing on sale around here. Maybe the twisty puzzle business is starting to grow out of the niche market after all?


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## mark49152 (Nov 14, 2016)

@pipkiksass, @Selkie, @earth2dan, @mafergut: Thanks for the kind words of encouragement 

To answer Pip's point, 4BLD is exactly the same principle as 3BLD, just bigger. About 2.5 times the information, plus an extra piece type, but otherwise the same principles, process and skills. I did improve a lot in the last few weeks, and I think a big reason for that is that doing more 5BLD and bigger MBLDs has improved my memo skills so now I can easily do several 4BLDs in a practice session, whereas before my max was 1-2 before my memory got tired. So I just got more practice done. Maybe 80-100 solves in the last month. It's a really fun event and my favourite right now.


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## h2f (Nov 14, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> @pipkiksass, @Selkie, @earth2dan, @mafergut: Thanks for the kind words of encouragement
> 
> To answer Pip's point, 4BLD is exactly the same principle as 3BLD, just bigger. About 2.5 times the information, plus an extra piece type, but otherwise the same principles, process and skills. I did improve a lot in the last few weeks, and I think a big reason for that is that doing more 5BLD and bigger MBLDs has improved my memo skills so now I can easily do several 4BLDs in a practice session, whereas before my max was 1-2 before my memory got tired. So I just got more practice done. Maybe 80-100 solves in the last month. It's a really fun event and my favourite right now.



It's not 2.5 but less - Maskow had made some math about it and it showed that it's 2.25 3bld cubes.  And you showed me the way to practice - I'm gonna to make 2-3 5bld attempts per day. Polish Champs in 25 days...


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## earth2dan (Nov 14, 2016)

pipkiksass said:


> In other news, while waiting for my Chinese food last night there was a kid of about 11 with a Gans 3x3 who I reckon was about a 60s solver. He did 4 different OLLs one solve, and quite slowly. I resisted the urge to go over and show off, but almost wish I had!!
> Just nice to see another cuber IRL, it's a first for me!


Only twice have I met another person in real life that solves. I took my kids to the park once and there was a girl with a Rubik's brand 3x3 there. The other time was when Dan Fast (CrazyBadCuber) was here in Winnipeg.



mafergut said:


> Maybe the twisty puzzle business is starting to grow out of the niche market after all?


I was visiting my sister in Alberta this summer and there was a boardgame store in the mall that had a bunch of Meffert's puzzles. First time I've seen non-Rubik's brand puzzles in a brick and mortar store. Hopefully as it becomes more popular we'll see even more retail options, and more events.

Looking for some cube recommendations for my next puzzle order:

Megaminx - I know we have some good Mega solvers here. I have an old ShengShou and a Dayan Stickerless (ridged), but I can't say either of them are really good. The Dayan is better, but centers tend to pop on looser tensions.
5x5 - anyone have an opinion on the MoYu WeiChuang GTS vs QiYi WuShuang? I have a stickerless Yuxin, and both black/stickerless BoChuangs and they're all pretty great, but there's room for improvement.
3x3 - I am definitely getting the Gans 356 Air, but I'm torn on whether or not I want the Valk 3. Anyone here swear by the Valk 3?
Others - Anyone fallen in love with a new puzzle in recent months that they wish to recommend? I'm all ears.


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## mark49152 (Nov 14, 2016)

h2f said:


> It's not 2.5 but less - Maskow had made some math about it and it showed that it's 2.25 3bld cubes.


I'm not sure how the maths would account for cycle breaks, flips and twists, but just comparing target counts and ignoring cycle breaks, it would be 18 versus 53, and typically an orientation can be found that leaves 7 centres solved. So (53-7)/18 = 2.55. Not arguing with Maskow though - my maths is probably oversimplified.


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## pipkiksass (Nov 14, 2016)

earth2dan said:


> Anyone here swear by the Valk 3?



Yeah, it's awesome, and not MASSIVELY expensive (cheaper than the Gans and Weilong GTS). Very smooth cube which cuts anything you would reasonably want to cut. I find M turns lovely on it, my Z, H, and U perms are much faster on it.

But then I haven't tried either of the other cubes above. To be frank, I have no intention to buy either, I love the Valk. On the right tension it never pops, is incredibly smooth, and still really controllable.

Edit: I've fallen in love with 4x4, but that doesn't count, does it?! I think you want something a LITTLE more obscure than what is probably the second most popular puzzle in the world?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## h2f (Nov 14, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> I'm not sure how the maths would account for cycle breaks, flips and twists, but just comparing target counts and ignoring cycle breaks, it would be 18 versus 53, and typically an orientation can be found that leaves 7 centres solved. So (53-7)/18 = 2.55. Not arguing with Maskow though - my maths is probably oversimplified.



His argumentation looks the same as yours. But he argued that 46 targets in 4bld leads to no more than 26 words needed to memorize the cube but in 3bld 18 targets leads to 11,5 words in average needed to memorize the cube because of cycle breaks twists and flips. And I'm sure he checked it. 26/11,5 = 2,26. In fact I think it's something between 2,26 and 2,5 cubes.

See here his comment:


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## Logiqx (Nov 14, 2016)

Oooh. I've just found a really sick F2L trick whilst playing around...

*r U2 r' F2 *- execute everything right handed

I've often looked at this case and thought there must be a clever solution.

My previous approach was *y' R U R2' U' R*

Pretty cool to find a 4 move re-gripless solution!

*Edit*: Solves FR pair when the edge starts in FL and corner is on top


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## pglewis (Nov 14, 2016)

The weather has still been surprisingly nice during the day here so I've been taking my cube with me to go get my daily afternoon coffee and practicing in the outdoor plaza. For better or worse I've found that playing with a cube in public prompts a fair bit of unsolicited conversation. Usually it's either "have you solved it yet?" or "I just peel the stickers off" but I did have a UC student ask what my times are one afternoon, he's roughly in the same same ballpark. Over the weekend two kids wandered over, one could solve one layer fairly quickly... not permuted properly but it was obviously not his first time. Wish I'd had my Mars or something with me, they'd have gone home with one of my spares.



earth2dan said:


> 5x5 - anyone have an opinion on the MoYu WeiChuang GTS vs QiYi WuShuang? I have a stickerless Yuxin, and both black/stickerless BoChuangs and they're all pretty great, but there's room for improvement.



I don't have any other 5x5s to compare but I really like the WuShuang a lot. Can't imagine it popping without me deserving it and it turns far better than either my G4 or Yuxin 4x4s did out of the box. The only question mark in my mind would be how well it scales up for faster solvers. EDIT: I also really like the smaller size. 



earth2dan said:


> 3x3 - I am definitely getting the Gans 356 Air, but I'm torn on whether or not I want the Valk 3. Anyone here swear by the Valk 3?



I've been a Thunderclap man since I got mine over the summer. My Cubicle premium Valk broke in with just a few solves and became rather fast. I resisted the temptation to adjust it and now my TC feels quite sluggish already. Kind of amazing how quickly I can adapt to a new feel but I'm gonna call it at this point: new main.


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## pglewis (Nov 14, 2016)

@Logiqx: keep 'em coming, at this rate I may never get consistent again but you know how I love new F2L tricks right now!


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## pglewis (Nov 14, 2016)

pipkiksass said:


> I was intending to do some solves, break it in a bit, time some 3x3 and 4x4 solves, then consider whether I should do a spring swap... when I had a small internal pop while scrambling. Thought I'd soldier on, when I had an internal explosion on OLL parity.



Similar experience here with the 62mm version, I just don't trust it much at the moment.


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## mark49152 (Nov 14, 2016)

h2f said:


> His argumentation looks the same as yours. But he argued that 46 targets in 4bld leads to no more than 26 words needed to memorize the cube but in 3bld 18 targets leads to 11,5 words in average needed to memorize the cube because of cycle breaks twists and flips. And I'm sure he checked it. 26/11,5 = 2,26. In fact I think it's something between 2,26 and 2,5 cubes.
> 
> See here his comment:


Is that link correct?

Yes I can imagine flipped edges would add more to 3BLD but it would depend how you memorise them anyway. Would they be counted as one target or two? What about parity? The only objective way to eliminate the effect of memo system is to count only targets, not words. Accounting for the average number of cycle breaks and flips would make sense, but I don't know the math. I would guess 1-2 of each for 3BLD and 2-4 wing cycle breaks for 4BLD. Centre cycle breaks can almost always be avoided.


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## Logiqx (Nov 14, 2016)

Logiqx said:


> Oooh. I've just found a really sick F2L trick whilst playing around...
> 
> *r U2 r' F2 *- execute everything right handed
> ...
> *Edit*: Solves FR pair when the edge starts in FL and corner is on top



Another discovery is the inverse... *F2 r U2 r' *which solves F2L case 31 from FR to FL.

Previously, I've been doing *R L' U2 L R'* or *y' R' U R2 U' R' *but I think tonight's find is better!


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## pglewis (Nov 14, 2016)

I've mentioned it before but I'm sold on F l' U' l and the lefty mirror for hedgeslammer. Getting a fair bit of use out of it on 4x4 and 5x5 too.


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## pipkiksass (Nov 14, 2016)

pglewis said:


> Similar experience here with the 62mm version, I just don't trust it much at the moment.



My review of the Yuxin Blue

So it took me nearly TWO HOURS to reassemble the cube. It's a long time since I've reassembled a 4x4, and getting the first 3 combined internal edge pieces to stay in was a nightmare. There's even less room inside the cube then there was in my Weisu, and I set the tensions pretty tight, which gave me very little room for flexing the internal centres to fit the internal edges in. Also I should've finished a corner before moving on, I tried to insert a 4th internal edge, should've done 2, then built the corner, then a 3rd. 

In retrospect, looser tensions, less ambition. More haste, less speed(cyoobin)?

BUT, once lubed and correctly assembled, and with the Fangshi springs, it's AWESOME. Does it lock up? Yes, a little, but probably because I can't turn a 4x4 properly. Most of my lockups are at the 3x3 on 4x4 stage, so I did some 3x3 on 4x4 averages (per my previous post, I'm a noob at 4x4, so this is the stage where I can honestly tell if the cube is holding me back).

I did an Ao12 on my Weisu, which was 34.12.
I did an Ao12 on my Yuxin, which was 26.77 (best 22.53, used my phone timer, but lower variance probably than my 3x3 solves - will put this to the test with CSTimer tomorrow)

I was averaging about 2:40-2:50 with my Weisu. With no additional practice (just picked it up and solved it a few times, my rolling Ao12 is down to 2:36, with my last solve on the Weisu being 3:09.141, followed by a 2:20.003 and a 2:11.756 on the Yuxin. The 2:20 had double parity; the 2:11 had PLL parity.

I was partaking in the race to sub-30 in 3x3 on 4x4 to get faster turning on 4x4, and I'm pretty sure I'll graduate from that immediately. I was also taking part in race to 2:30 on 4x4, so I'm pretty sure I'll be getting past that landmark fairly soon as well. I'm confident will be sub-2 using this cube in no time whatsoever. Possibly later this week!

So it's 60mm, which may account for a bit of the speed increase, and also stickerless, which the WCA now say doesn't help... so... but it's pretty! It's also significantly quieter than the Weisu, even having only been solved about 5 times. Turning feels very smooth indeed. I have the tensions a LITTLE looser than my Weisu, but it feels infinitely MORE controllable (go figure). I'd imagine it's because everything internally fits together so tightly.

Sadly it exploded internally before I could judge whether the spring swap was worthwhile. I won't be taking it apart to swap the springs back in a hurry. With the new springs, lube, tensioned to avoid more pops, it's STREETS ahead of the Weisu. But who uses a Weisu anymore? Would I recommend it over a 2-year-old 4x4? Unsurprisingly, yes! Is this, therefore, the most pointless review ever? Yes!

Sorry for wasting your time. I'll be sticking with this cube until I'm sub-xx, or it starts to pop lots and makes me cry. Initial outlook, however, is good.


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## One Wheel (Nov 15, 2016)

earth2dan said:


> 5x5 - anyone have an opinion on the MoYu WeiChuang GTS vs QiYi WuShuang? I have a stickerless Yuxin, and both black/stickerless BoChuangs and they're all pretty great, but there's room for improvement.




I really can only compare my Shengshou and my Weichuang GTS, and the Weichuang is obviously an improvement. It is very fast, potentially too much so. I end up getting a lot of lockups when I'm scrambling, but it doesn't seem to be nearly as much of an issue during the solve. I've had a very few pops of the corner center pieces. I lubed the core of mine with Cubicle Wt. 3 and the pieces with Silk, and haven't messed with the tensions too much. It still feels a little blocky and catchy to me, but my guess is that with another 200-300 solves (it's probably got about 100-125 right now) it could be absolutely fantastic, and it will probably really come into its own around 1000 solves. I know that the cube isn't supposed to make much difference until you're fairly fast, but going from the Shengshou to the Weichuang immediately improved my times from typically 4:00-4:30 to typically 3:30-4:00. As of today my best solves are 2:53.60 and 3:00.31. My pb with the Shengshou was 3:44.99 roughly a month ago. It will be a long time before I can take advantage of all this cube has to offer.


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## pglewis (Nov 15, 2016)

Logiqx said:


> Another discovery is the inverse... *F2 r U2 r' *which solves F2L case 31 from FR to FL.
> 
> Previously, I've been doing *R L' U2 L R'* or *y' R' U R2 U' R' *but I think tonight's find is better!



Since I have a sudden love of M-slices I've been doing *M F2 M'* for this case.


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## h2f (Nov 15, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> Is that link correct?



Yes. Maskow's comment under the movie. I dont know how to link comments....  I was thinkig about it and I think he is right. I count words not targets. And it's quite good: the longest memo wings I had took 13 words (+2 to normal) + twists - it was around 26 (46 means 23 words + 2 + twist + parity = a little bit over 26). I know he checked words needed to memo cube due to his mbld attempts. So his maths is quite ok. I like the idea of thinking about 4bld that it's 2 x 3bld + a little piece. And his math goes further - 5 bld is not 5x3bld (2,5 x 2) but 4 and a bigger pieces. It makes sense.

Ok. Let's get back to practice. Morning scramble and 57.55. I wish I could do this during comp...


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## Logiqx (Nov 15, 2016)

pglewis said:


> @Logiqx: keep 'em coming, at this rate I may never get consistent again but you know how I love new F2L tricks right now!



If you like tricks then be sure to keep a record of them in one place. As you get faster you'll know which cases really need the speedups and what flows best in solves, even if algs are long. It's partly dependent on the ability of your fingers to do certain movements as well since they will learn to do some things well with practice. I will share the fact that I actually dropped a heap of tricks whilst pushing for sub-20 as simplicity was the key to my look ahead. It's only now that I'm re-introducing tricks for cases which frankly seem to take half a second longer than necessary.



pglewis said:


> I've mentioned it before but I'm sold on F l' U' l and the lefty mirror for hedgeslammer. Getting a fair bit of use out of it on 4x4 and 5x5 too.



I think that's a trick a lot of people do when they start to use sledgehammer but you should learn to do R' F R F' if you're to gain the full benefit. There was a time when I used to use F l' U' l but I stopped doing it a long while ago. Watch any fast person solving and you'll see they don't use that method of execution since it involves re-gripping with your left hand and if one hand should be fixed it's the left one. The wide l' also affects lookahead as it hides a lot of LL pieces at the back.



pglewis said:


> Since I have a sudden love of M-slices I've been doing *M F2 M'* for this case.



I used to try that as well but it is too awkward in the middle of a solve. It seemed good in theory. 

I like that you're keen on tricks. Just be careful you don't over complicate your solves as your main priority should be to know everything blindfolded right now. That will lead to your biggest speedups as your look ahead will develop more quickly.


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## defhacks (Nov 15, 2016)

Logiqx said:


> Just be careful you don't complicate your solves as your main priority is to know everything blindfolded right now. That will lead to your biggest speedups as your look ahead will develop more quickly.



This is definitely something I struggle with, drawing lines between efficiency and f2l "bling".

One of the initial thoughts I had was to start looking at cubesolv.es reconstructions to see what actually happens in solves, and quickly started wondering how much "confirmation bias" (or something like it) happens.

Specifically, most of the solves I saw had really elementary F2L steps, which of course, leads to easy solves, which leads to fast times, which leads to being on cubesolv.es, then I thought about looking only at slow solves in cubesolv.es, like maybe the worst time in an ao5, but then started wondering if the slower solves are slower due to inefficiencies that would be bad to use an example, then I started to wonder if I was overthinking things, and now I'm thinking about how bad my penchant for run-on sentences is..


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## Logiqx (Nov 15, 2016)

defhacks said:


> This is definitely something I struggle with, drawing lines between efficiency and f2l "bling".
> 
> One of the initial thoughts I had was to start looking at cubesolv.es reconstructions to see what actually happens in solves, and quickly started wondering how much "confirmation bias" (or something like it) happens.
> 
> Specifically, most of the solves I saw had really elementary F2L steps, which of course, leads to easy solves, which leads to fast times, which leads to being on cubesolv.es, then I thought about looking only at slow solves in cubesolv.es, like maybe the worst time in an ao5, but then started wondering if the slower solves are slower due to inefficiencies that would be bad to use an example, then I started to wonder if I was overthinking things, and now I'm thinking about how bad my penchant for run-on sentences is..


The best confirmation of specific tricks being any good is when they are used in the Friday Fours by Faz. Several of my favorite algs have turned up which is a good sign!

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk


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## mark49152 (Nov 15, 2016)

h2f said:


> Yes. Maskow's comment under the movie. I dont know how to link comments....  I was thinkig about it and I think he is right. I count words not targets. And it's quite good: the longest memo wings I had took 13 words (+2 to normal) + twists - it was around 26 (46 means 23 words + 2 + twist + parity = a little bit over 26). I know he checked words needed to memo cube due to his mbld attempts. So his maths is quite ok. I like the idea of thinking about 4bld that it's 2 x 3bld + a little piece. And his math goes further - 5 bld is not 5x3bld (2,5 x 2) but 4 and a bigger pieces. It makes sense.


OK, I see the comment, but I don't know how to translate it . Not on a phone, anyway.

Anyway I get the point, but I still think the comparison is a bit pointless unless the quantification is objective. If it takes into account memo technique, it's subjective. So it will be different for different people.

Let's take another subjective view. For me a 3BLD takes 1 image location, 3 audio words and maybe some visual flips. A 4BLD takes 4 locations and 4 audio words. How do we even compare those?

Without an objective measure, the best we can say is it's "about" 2.2-2.5 but really the decimal place precision is meaningless when the numbers aren't derived with that level of accuracy.


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## pipkiksass (Nov 15, 2016)

Logiqx said:


> Another discovery is the inverse... *F2 r U2 r' *which solves F2L case 31 from FR to FL.



Oh that's NICE. Clever and easy to recognise and remember as well, because the pair is just an F2 away, but that removes the cross edge, so you're just flipping the cross edge and reinserting it with the r U2 r'.

Of course it's mirror - F2 l U2 l' works equally well.

I find tricks slip my mind quite easily, unless I can understand what they're doing, so this should be an instant addition to my armoury. I have some nice tricks for stuck cases, as I find stuck cases are the place where F2L can benefit most from 'algs', rather than the purely intuitive solution (i.e. remove, separate/+set up, insert). If anyone has any gems for stuck cases then feel free to share.


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## muchacho (Nov 15, 2016)

11.801 3x3 PB Single, I'll try to reconstruct, I hope it's not a miss scramble.

32160 15-nov-2016 9:52:07 00:11.801 D B2 L2 U2 L2 D' L2 B2 D' F2 R2 F L' D' F U' B2 L B2 U2 L

edit: Very easy solve, no pauses, but not very efficient at several points, 59 STM, so 5.00 tps



Spoiler: reconstruction



z2 y
R' U M U M2 U2 L' U L // FB
M' U R U R M' U2 R U' R' // SB
U2 R U2 R' U' R U' R' // CMLL
M' U2 M U' M U' M' U M' // EO
U M' U2 M' M2 U' M' U2 M // END

https://alg.cubing.net/?setup=D_B2_L2_U2_L2_D-_L2_B2_D-_F2_R2_F_L-_D-_F_U-_B2_L_B2_U2_L &alg=z2_y R-_U_M_U_M2_U2_L-_U_L M-_U_R_U_R_M-_U2_R_U-_R- U2_R_U2_R-_U-_R_U-_R- M-_U2_M_U-_M_U-_M-_U_M- U_M-_U2_M-_M2_U-_M-_U2_M


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## bubbagrub (Nov 15, 2016)

It's my birthday today... my family know me so well!


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## mark49152 (Nov 15, 2016)

Happy Birthday Ben . Nice haul you got there.


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## h2f (Nov 15, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> If it takes into account memo technique, it's subjective. So it will be different for different people.



Yes it takes into account memo technique and the result is up of the technique but the result gives comparable values - it says something about techniques we use. And as far as the technique is the same in 3bld and 4bld it showes something about those blind events in our subjective way. In the terms of images for me 3bld are 2 images and 3-4 letter pairs and 4bld is 5 images and 3-4 letter pairs. The difference is in the number of images (2/5) and it means that 4bld is 2x3bld and a piece of 3bld but not 2.5 3bld due to fact that corners are the same.
In your case it makes other values. 

Happy birthday Ben.


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## SenorJuan (Nov 15, 2016)

Happy Birthday to Ben!
I was surprised at how much of that book is available as a free 'taster' e-book, more than the handfull of pages I was expecting.

On the subject of F2L insertions that are 'single-face', I thought some of those looked familiar. I use (sometimes) rear-face and right-face versions of them in OH solving. Specifically:

x' R2 U' R2 U x

x' U2 R U2 R' x

The front-face equivalents would need x rotation, putting the U face on the rear, killing look-ahead, so I use the more regular R U' R2 U R etc then.
These single-face moves were some I worked out 10+ yrs ago, and recently promised to Chris Selkie I'd send him a copy-- It's on the list of things to do, Chris.
Here's one sheet (attached), that covers the "edge doing an F2" cases: (note: my M turns go the opposite way to modern convention)

Also, Macky's Cubefreak site has some of these algs, too. Worth a look.
Archive version:
http://web.archive.org/web/20110621205048/http://cubefreak.net/speed/f2ladvanced/a0.html


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## mark49152 (Nov 15, 2016)

h2f said:


> In your case it makes other values.


I don't know if it makes other values for me, that's my point, and I don't care if the answer is 2.5 or 2.25. Unless there's a way to accurately quantify and calculate the "amount of information" there's no way to make any accurate statement about it, and all we have are approximations. The difference between our approximations is only 10%, which might even be less than the margin of error in our approximations.

For what it's worth, I suspect that if flips and breaks were accounted for it would indeed be closer to 2.25 than to 2.5, but since I'm a scientist I cannot bring myself to accept that one value is more accurate than the other without seeing evidence to convince me .


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## newtonbase (Nov 15, 2016)

bubbagrub said:


> It's my birthday today... my family know me so well!


Happy birthday. I have puzzle envy.


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## Logiqx (Nov 15, 2016)

SenorJuan said:


> Happy Birthday to Ben!
> x' R2 U' R2 U x
> x' U2 R U2 R' x
> 
> Here's one sheet (attached), that covers the "edge doing an F2" cases: (note: my M turns go the opposite way to modern convention)



I'm not sure I'd use *x' R2 U' R2 U x* for OH as I'd just do *R U' R2 U R* (avoiding x rotations) but it is quite funky!

*x' U2 R U2 R' x *looks like it has good potential. I haven't got a cube to hand to see how it feels compared to my typical OH solution; z, extract, z', insert.

Thanks for sharing the alg sheet. Please share any other cases that you write up in the future.


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## h2f (Nov 15, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> For what it's worth, I suspect that if flips and breaks were accounted for it would indeed be closer to 2.25 than to 2.5, but since I'm a scientist I cannot bring myself to accept that one value is more accurate than the other without seeing evidence to convince me .



Ok. In my opinion both values are made on different methodology and both say something about what we do in 4bld. I'll stay with that conclusion of our discussion.

Finally I've got my Valk3 in black. Wow - it's awsome and stickers dont need any replacement.


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## SenorJuan (Nov 15, 2016)

Mike: The main reason they get only occasional OH use is they are still 6 turns, QTM, and not really much advantage over 6-turn R U' R2 U R and its cousins R' U R2 U' R' , z U R' U2 R U z' , z U' R U2 R' U' z' 
"Please share any other cases that you write up in the future."
Most are written presentably, I think, just need to sort them out.

Here's some random 'funky' moves from the 'big folder of cubing papers'

x' r R U2 R' r' x ...shifts a pair diagonally, works both ways

R' F U' F' R...shifts a pair diagonally, from the inverted orientation.

This one solves an awkward F2L case, using an empty slot:

F' U F2 R U2 R' F' ...7 moves

I also have some "intuitive F2L sub-algorithms" written down, probably worth sharing, there might be something newer solvers haven't seen.


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## Shaky Hands (Nov 15, 2016)

Selkie said:


> So apparently Marty has had a delivery of Qiyi WuHua 6x6's.



Still no sign on their website yet. Looking forward to this though.



bubbagrub said:


> It's my birthday today... my family know me so well!



That's a brilliant haul you've got there. Enjoy and happy birthday!


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## pglewis (Nov 15, 2016)

Logiqx said:


> If you like tricks then be sure to keep a record of them in one place.



Yeah, I had to get them down in "off-chip memory" . I have Google sheet for F2L with a column set aside for special cases like different destination slots and open slot shortcuts. 



Logiqx said:


> I will share the fact that I actually dropped a heap of tricks whilst pushing for sub-20 as simplicity was the key to my look ahead. It's only now that I'm re-introducing tricks for cases which frankly seem to take half a second longer than necessary.



I initially made good progress by simplifying my F2L so much that I only used cases where the cross color is facing up on the corners in the U face. That works the same basic way regardless of the edge orientation and boiling it down to just that case meant less thinking to set it up, even if it wasn't always very efficient. That took me from floundering around 1:20 to flirting with sub 1 min and then plateaued. From there I dug into more details but still grouped/simplified a lot of cases. Because my recog and lookahead develop so slowly I decided to learn full PLL at that time as well, the two together knocked another 10-15 seconds off the averages once absorbed. 



Logiqx said:


> I think that's a trick a lot of people do when they start to use sledgehammer but you should learn to do R' F R F' if you're to gain the full benefit. There was a time when I used to use F l' U' l but I stopped doing it a long while ago. Watch any fast person solving and you'll see they don't use that method of execution since it involves re-gripping with your left hand and if one hand should be fixed it's the left one. The wide l' also affects lookahead as it hides a lot of LL pieces at the back.



I do use R' F R F' for sledgehammer; F l' U' l is the inverse (hedge) vs. F R' F' R. Very ergonomic for me with a right index finger over the top for the F and the left does the rest. Same left hand grip for me as sledge. The lookahead is a downside but the contexts where i use it on 4x4/5x5 usually don't matter so much. L2e flip, for example: *Uw' (R U R') (F R' F' R) Uw*, that hedge execution is awkward for me but the left grip shift to do the wide version is in a convenient place after the R U R', IMO. 



Logiqx said:


> I like that you're keen on tricks. Just be careful you don't over complicate your solves as your main priority should be to know everything blindfolded right now. That will lead to your biggest speedups as your look ahead will develop more quickly.



I'm trying not to get too fancy and sticking mostly with efficient/ergonomic solutions for all cases but it's admittedly easy to get distracted by shiny tricks that might be more flash than useful in a solve. The main thing for me though: recog is my bane; if I'm going to make my pairing "automatic" I want to bite the bullet and find the best solutions for me to execute now rather than turn around and break habits yet a third time at the next F2L plateau. I don't use "algs" for F2L at all... I mean, I initially learn them as a sequence of moves from a table, so they're "algs", but I fully understand the mechanics of everything I do in F2L. I'd guess about 80% are easily doable with my eyes closed because I can visualize, at worst, or muscle memory for the solidified cases. 

Besides lookahead and sometimes just _finding_ my target edges, an emerging bottle-neck for my F2L right now is recognizing the case. Blind pair practice is going to do wonders for the lookahead side, I think thousands more solves is my only recourse for speeding up the recog. Also need better cross and lookahead into my first pair now. A few timed runs last night after warm-up and I think I'm nearly back to sitting on mid 40s for averages, but when my cross is also decent I'm seeing more 30s. Also shaved another tenth off my PB single with a 33.5 with no skips. 

Glad to have you guys keeping me in line! It's easy to veer off on the focus *coughcough 5x5 cough*.


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## pglewis (Nov 15, 2016)

muchacho said:


> 11.801 3x3 PB Single, I'll try to reconstruct, I hope it's not a miss scramble ...



No video? I love watching Roux solves . 

@bubbagrub: Happy birthday! I picked up Cracking the Cube myself and finding it an enjoyable read.


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## muchacho (Nov 15, 2016)

No video, I've filmed like 1 out of every 500 solves, fastest is a 16 seconds one.





I'm not into 5x5 yet, but thought posting this video that Sirwaffle just uploaded would be useful to someone.


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## Selkie (Nov 16, 2016)

Wow there was so much to catch up on in the thread. Some great discussion over 5x5 L2E. My take is I am lazy and know only 1 parity case which is the classic single edge with two flipped midges. I will sometimes cancel out the first move of the parity. I really should make an effort to learn more cases.

@mark49152 - I was lucky enough to sit with Arnaud van Galen at a competition a few years ago and he gave me some great advice on AvG method. It was used more widely a few years ago and I know cubers such as Dan Sheppard used it competitively for a while but Dan is now freeslice. I remember Arnaud said another great advantage is that it will only give you one of 2? L2E cases though it may have been more.

@earth2dan - For Megaminx I would definitely go for the Qiyi X-Man Design Sculptured Galaxy. Its the puzzle I solve on and is awesome out the box. Other cubers also rave about the Shengshou Aurora Megaminx too so you might want to consider that. As for 5x5, I find it quite difficult to pick a main from Moyu Bochuang, Yuxin or Qiyi.

@bubbagrub - Happy Birthday sir and what a great selection of cubing goodies you received. I am hoping to receive the book for my birthday next week. I hope the hints have been strong enough!

@Shaky Hands - The WuHua's are available now mate http://thepuzzlestore.uk/6x6/ . I ordered a stickerless one yesterday together with a new Moyu Square-1 and a Yuxin Blue 4x4 for a spring swap. These puzzles are however a birthday present from my wife so whilst I was going to do an unboxing, I suppose in technical terms it will be an unwrapping" 

@Shaky Hands , @mark49152 and anyone else attending Birmingham Open, I have a weekend pass from my good lady so will be able to join you for both full days. I will be staying with a friend in central Birmingham but will be available for beer and curry Saturday night if you fancy it?


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## Shaky Hands (Nov 16, 2016)

@Selkie - great, ordered one. Thanks for letting me know. Be great to see you for an extra day at the Brum Open fella. Cheers.


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## pipkiksass (Nov 16, 2016)

pglewis said:


> Also need better cross and lookahead into my first pair now.



*cough* CFOP substep comp *cough*

Also, avoiding double post, thought something horrible had happened last night, did a 20.5 Ao100! [emoji15] Felt REALLY tired, but it was just super hard work. Started out as an Ao12, but kept hoping it would speed up.

Turned out to just be tiredness, I've had several sup 19 Ao12s this morning. Thought I'd regressed by 1.5 seconds, which was moderately terrifying!!!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Logiqx (Nov 16, 2016)

I did my first big average in a long time last night. Very close to sub-17 Ao100.

# of solving: 150
Best of all: 13.947
Best Avg of 5: 15.310
Best Avg of 12: 16.123
Best Avg of 25: 16.595
Best Avg of 50: 16.755
Best Avg of 100: 17.034
Average of all: 17.222

Edit: A big improvement on my 28.x official average at UKC 2016.


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## megagoune (Nov 16, 2016)

earth2dan said:


> I was visiting my sister in Alberta this summer and there was a boardgame store in the mall that had a bunch of Meffert's puzzles. First time I've seen non-Rubik's brand puzzles in a brick and mortar store. Hopefully as it becomes more popular we'll see even more retail options, and more events.



I know 2 stores in Montreal having non Rubik's branc puzzles. One stocks v-cubes and in the other one I can find many brands like Meffert's, puzzle master or calvin's puzzle. But they have been carrying twisty puzzles for very long time, so I am not sure if it's an indication of growing popularity.



earth2dan said:


> 3x3 - I am definitely getting the Gans 356 Air, but I'm torn on whether or not I want the Valk 3. Anyone here swear by the Valk 3?



I definitely consider the Valk 3 my favorite cube. Mine has a very close feel to the YueXiao. I also really like my Gans air, but I can't get used to the stickers, my recognition is not as good, and I prefer not feeling the stickers on the fingers.
In any case, why not get the Valk 3? One can never have too many cubes . And the WR was set on it!


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## megagoune (Nov 16, 2016)

bubbagrub said:


> It's my birthday today... my family know me so well!


Very nice. Happy birthday!

But how do you get your family to buy you puzzles that you don't have? Do you give them a wish list or something? My family just gave up on offering cubes because they cannot track what I have


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## pipkiksass (Nov 16, 2016)

Had a second small internal pop on the Yuxin 4x4 today, again whilst scrambling. Never had a pop while solving, fortunately.

Also discovered you can pull pairs of edges apart to check which internal has popped, and just dismantle 2 corners to fix, saved me an age!!! [emoji41]

Also had a few 1:4x solves, even with parity. It's nice going back to an event where you can still have these massive jumps of progress.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## bubbagrub (Nov 16, 2016)

megagoune said:


> Very nice. Happy birthday!
> 
> But how do you get your family to buy you puzzles that you don't have? Do you give them a wish list or something? My family just gave up on offering cubes because they cannot track what I have


  I created a wish list on Marty's cube store, and shared it with my wife... She kindly shared it with others.


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## pipkiksass (Nov 16, 2016)

bubbagrub said:


> I created a wish list on Marty's cube store, and shared it with my wife... She kindly shared it with others.



Will DEFINITELY be doing this in future. Loving Marty's store as well, excellent service. About to place my 3rd order... 

Just done my second entry in the race to sub XX on 4x4. 6 days ago I had a 2:47 Ao12 with my Weisu. Today I had a 2:03 Ao12 with my Yuxin. I know some of this is down to personal improvement, but I can't see past the cube being the largest influence. It's taken almost 10 seconds off my 3x3 stage. 

New PBs:

single - 1:41.42
Ao5 - 1:54.81
A012 - 2:03.25

That's after a week of 4x4ing. Have to say I LOVE it. And 3x3 seems so easy when you go back to it after 4x4, which is an added bonus. 



Spoiler: times



Generated By csTimer on 2016-11-16
solves/total: 12/12

single
best: 1:41.42
worst: 2:24.12

mean of 3
current: 2:07.13 (σ = 11.11)
best: 1:55.93 (σ = 18.32)

avg of 5
current: 2:06.34 (σ = 9.84)
best: 1:54.81 (σ = 8.83)

avg of 12
current: 2:03.25 (σ = 13.26)
best: 2:03.25 (σ = 13.26)

Average: 2:03.25 (σ = 13.26)
Mean: 2:03.17

Time List:
1. 2:02.73 Fw' B' D2 L' D' F B U2 Uw' Fw F' B U2 F' U' L2 Fw L F2 Uw B2 F2 D L' U' R2 Rw2 B R' D' Fw R' U L Fw2 L Fw L' Uw2 U' 
2. 2:09.36 Uw' F R D R' Fw L Rw U L Uw2 U2 Rw2 Uw' L U' Rw' Fw2 D Fw D' R' B Fw' Rw U R' U L2 U D2 R Uw B Fw Uw' L Uw' B Rw' 
3. 2:19.92 R B Uw2 D2 U' Rw F2 B' Fw2 D' Uw' U2 L B2 Rw U2 D' F2 Uw' U R' U F R F' B' Fw2 L' Rw' Fw' F R2 Uw F Uw R' Uw' U F' B' 
4. 1:41.42 F' B U Rw' D' L' Rw Uw U2 R2 F2 Rw F' Uw2 R U Fw B' F Uw2 Fw' Rw2 F' L' Rw2 D2 Rw F L B2 Rw Fw2 D R2 D2 L' B2 R2 Fw2 F' 
5. 2:24.12 R' Rw Fw Uw2 F' L' Uw B' U2 D Uw R' Rw2 D B' Uw F2 R2 Rw2 Fw' Rw2 B' R L' Rw D2 F' R' D' R D2 Rw' L2 Fw' L D' Rw2 L' U' Uw' 
6. 1:48.22 L Fw' D L2 F2 B' Uw' F2 U2 F2 B' Rw U' R' Uw' B L' F' R Fw' U2 L' F' D2 R Rw' U2 F' Rw' Uw' Fw2 D' Fw2 R Fw2 Uw Fw2 R2 L Fw 
7. 1:42.70 U R' U2 R Fw2 L' B2 L D2 U B' U' Fw' Rw Uw D Rw' Uw' R2 Uw2 U' F Uw' D Fw' D' U Rw2 B D U' B' Fw D' B2 Rw2 B D Fw2 Rw' 
8. 2:16.84 Uw' Rw' Uw Fw L B2 Fw2 U D' Fw L' R' Rw' U' Rw2 L' D B2 Fw' F R' D' Fw' Rw2 B' F2 R L' Uw2 B2 D2 L' U' Fw2 L D Rw' Uw Fw2 F 
9. 1:51.36 D R2 Uw2 R' Fw U' F U R D' Uw2 R Fw2 Rw L2 Uw2 F' Rw D2 U' B F' Fw' Rw2 L2 U2 D2 Fw' Uw' D L F2 B' U' Uw B2 Uw2 L D2 U' 
10. 2:04.84 F Fw2 B D' F2 R' D U Uw2 R Fw D2 L R U2 D' Fw' F' B D Fw' B2 F' U' L' B Fw2 L2 U L2 Rw Fw' F L' Fw B L' Rw' D F 
11. 2:19.20 U D2 F' R2 B2 Fw F' Uw2 Fw' R2 Uw Rw D' F R Rw2 B Uw' F' Fw Uw2 F Uw' D' R' L D' B' R Uw' B Rw' F Rw2 Fw F' Uw' Rw Uw2 R2 
12. 1:57.33 B' R L U2 R2 U2 D' Uw B F' D' U Rw R2 Uw' Fw' F L' Rw Fw2 Uw Rw U2 Rw Uw U2 F Fw Rw U2 L' D' Fw F' U2 Rw' D2 R' U F'


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## pglewis (Nov 16, 2016)

pipkiksass said:


> *cough* CFOP substep comp *cough*



Thanks for the invite and I'm sure to take you up on it eventually. Right now I'm still only really timing 3x3 solves once or twice a week and only a couple dozen timed solves as a check-in at that. My F2L bootcamp would be progressing a little faster if not for the 4x4 and 5x5 diversions but I'm having fun, which meets the primary objective. My general "cube sense" has improved tremendously over the past month and a half, even if my times haven't yet, and that's definitely one of my biggest weaknesses.



pipkiksass said:


> Also had a few 1:4x solves, even with parity. It's nice going back to an event where you can still have these massive jumps of progress.



Fantastic progress ::bowing down emoji::

It was fun while it lasted here. I rocketed down to around about 4x my 3x3 times and stalled (surprise, surprise). 5x5 is getting close to double my 4x4, so probably nearly maxed there for a little while as well. 

You're already flirting with making cutoffs at this rate.


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## earth2dan (Nov 17, 2016)

bubbagrub said:


> It's my birthday today... my family know me so well!


Happy Birthday!



pipkiksass said:


> Had a second small internal pop on the Yuxin 4x4 today


I found the only way to avoid the pops was to lube it well and tighten it one step before "too tight". It was awesome for a time, but I'm due to re-lube it now as it's slowing down on me.


Thanks for the cube tips folks. I ended up ordering the Gans Air and the Valk3, both 5x5's, and the Galaxy Megaminx. Now... I wait.


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## Jason Green (Nov 17, 2016)

Logiqx said:


> The best confirmation of specific tricks being any good is when they are used in the Friday Fours by Faz. Several of my favorite algs have turned up which is a good sign!
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk


Yes, there are several guys doing walk through solves now like Jayden McNeil and I think they are great for seeing tips. 



muchacho said:


> 11.801 3x3 PB Single, I'll try to reconstruct, I hope it's not a miss scramble.
> 
> 32160 15-nov-2016 9:52:07 00:11.801 D B2 L2 U2 L2 D' L2 B2 D' F2 R2 F L' D' F U' B2 L B2 U2 L
> 
> edit: Very easy solve, no pauses, but not very efficient at several points, 59 STM, so 5.00 tps



Passed me again! Was I ahead before this? I'm at 12.26 right now. 



pipkiksass said:


> Also, avoiding double post, thought something horrible had happened last night, did a 20.5 Ao100! [emoji15] Felt REALLY tired, but it was just super hard work. Started out as an Ao12, but kept hoping it would speed up.
> 
> Turned out to just be tiredness, I've had several sup 19 Ao12s this morning. Thought I'd regressed by 1.5 seconds, which was moderately terrifying!!!



Yeah I've learned if I'm too tired don't worry about the average. In fact I'm too tired tonight but may still practice a bit, if it's over 20 I'll delete the whole session and act like it never happened. [emoji14]

Edit: And happy birthday Ben!!


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## defhacks (Nov 17, 2016)

Jason Green said:


> Yes, there are several guys doing walk through solves now like Jayden McNeil and I think they are great for seeing tips.!



Jayden's WTRS series is definitely one of my favourites as well! 

Chris Olson also did a walkthrough video in that style, which contained one of my favourite terms, "panic cross". Given some of his comments, he may have been the source for Jayden's idea 

Has anyone else started doing walkthroughs in that same style ? Friday Fours is similar in that it's a real solve, but I do like the aspect that a random ao5 brings to the table.


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## muchacho (Nov 17, 2016)

Jason Green said:


> Passed me again! Was I ahead before this? I'm at 12.26 right now.


It was 12.166, apparently my Ao5 is also ahead for now... but I don't use a stackmat and start with the cube in my hands... and for 100 solves my mean is usually more than 21 seconds.


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## pipkiksass (Nov 17, 2016)

earth2dan said:


> I found the only way to avoid the pops was to lube it well and tighten it one step before "too tight".



I'm pretty sure I have it tight enough, more by luck than judgement. I tensioned it the way I used to tension a Dayan 3x3, leaving about 1.5mm when pulling the spring taught, or the width of a narrow coin. It's only popped twice, and both times when scrambling. 

I think it's just because I'm not very good at scrambling big cubes (not that 4x4 is particularly big!), and I'm worried about losing my place when scrambling. It's not popped yet (touch wood) during a solve. As inaccurate as my turning is, I think my scrambling must be worse!


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## JohnnyReggae (Nov 17, 2016)

Out of nowhere yesterday I managed a 4x4 PB  

1:15.90 Rw2 U' R2 Fw' B2 U2 R2 Uw R' D2 B Uw2 R' Uw Rw2 L2 B' Rw2 F' Uw2 Fw B F' Uw D2 F2 L2 D' L Rw B D L2 F R Fw' Uw2 R2 D Uw2

Did only 2 solves yesterday, the first was interrupted by the wife wanting to know something. I was quite happy to stop it as it was a shocker I was at the 1:27 mark already and only on F2L of 3x3 stage. Then very next solve ... new PB  unfortunately I couldn't continue as I needed to get the kids out of the bath and into bedtime routine, and then I ended up drinking to much really good red wine to continue any cubing for the rest of the evening


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## Jason Green (Nov 17, 2016)

Here's a guy that does 9 second walk throughs, they are pretty good.


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## CLL Smooth (Nov 17, 2016)

Jason Green said:


> Yes, there are several guys doing walk through solves now like Jayden McNeil and I think they are great for seeing tips.


It's funny that this is the topic now. I just thought-up a new series last night: Stuff I would totally do for real in real solves walkthroughs.


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## mafergut (Nov 17, 2016)

Hi guys, so much to catch up to. I'm still here but unable to practise or post anything coherent here. Just a bit less than two weeks for liberation  Happy birthday, Ben. Congrats David, I only have now an 11.50 as faster single than your PB. Before the end of the year you'll beat me for sure. My only practise this week was like 40min of 5x5 during a 1h train commute yesterday.


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## earth2dan (Nov 17, 2016)

Anyone here know full OLL? I know less than half and I two look most cases. Looking for some tips on how to learn the rest efficiently. If I can stay focused, and avoid distraction or falling into bad habits I can consistently squeak out a sub-20 average, but globally I'm still around 20.3. I know I get a lot of sup-20 solves where my bad OLL is pushing me over 20.

Do you recommend learning them in groups of similar cases, or just powering through drilling one at a time until it's down? I usually go to http://algdb.net/ for algs.

The Winter months are when I seem to make all my speedcubing progress, then I just kind of coast through Summer. I've set some Winter goals for myself and I'm sure I can hit my big cube goals with just practice and improving look-ahead, but I think I'm due to learn some new algs to improve 3x3.


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## mark49152 (Nov 17, 2016)

earth2dan said:


> Anyone here know full OLL? I know less than half and I two look most cases. Looking for some tips on how to learn the rest efficiently.


Yep, my approach was to learn them in U-sticker groups, in order of move count benefit. See this link...

https://www.speedsolving.com/forum/threads/when-and-how-to-move-from-2-look-to-1-look-oll.41380/


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## pipkiksass (Nov 17, 2016)

earth2dan said:


> Anyone here know full OLL? I know less than half and I two look most cases. Looking for some tips on how to learn the rest efficiently. If I can stay focused, and avoid distraction or falling into bad habits I can consistently squeak out a sub-20 average, but globally I'm still around 20.3. I know I get a lot of sup-20 solves where my bad OLL is pushing me over 20.
> 
> Do you recommend learning them in groups of similar cases, or just powering through drilling one at a time until it's down? I usually go to http://algdb.net/ for algs.
> 
> The Winter months are when I seem to make all my speedcubing progress, then I just kind of coast through Summer. I've set some Winter goals for myself and I'm sure I can hit my big cube goals with just practice and improving look-ahead, but I think I'm due to learn some new algs to improve 3x3.



I don't know full OLL, and average pretty much the same as you, maybe a tiny bit faster.

Much as I'd love to learn according to Mark's consistent and sensible regime, I do find it easier to learn by shape. This week will be knight moves, if I can put down my 4x4 long enough (now averaging sub 2 after barely a week). I just find it easier to integrate new OLLs into a speed solve if I know I know the whole group by shape. Even if recog fails me for a second, the fact that it's there somewhere means it's a 21-22 rather than anything totally catastrophic!!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## earth2dan (Nov 17, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> Yep, my approach was to learn them in U-sticker groups, in order of move count benefit. See this link...
> 
> https://www.speedsolving.com/forum/threads/when-and-how-to-move-from-2-look-to-1-look-oll.41380/


Wow. That's a great, and thorough guide. Thanks for the link!



pipkiksass said:


> I don't know full OLL, and average pretty much the same as you, maybe a tiny bit faster.
> 
> Much as I'd love to learn according to Mark's consistent and sensible regime, I do find it easier to learn by shape. This week will be knight moves, if I can put down my 4x4 long enough (now averaging sub 2 after barely a week). I just find it easier to integrate new OLLs into a speed solve if I know I know the whole group by shape. Even if recog fails me for a second, the fact that it's there somewhere means it's a 21-22 rather than anything totally catastrophic!!!


I learned the Knight moves and the W's (or M's ...?) in groups with this exact same philosophy. They were also all simple algs that mirror easily lefty/righty. So it was really just learning 3 algs to cover 6 cases with easy recognition 

I think I need a more structured approach to learn the rest though. My biggest challenge is I need to put that dang timer away and switch my brain back into learning mode. I haven't really learned anything new in a long time, I've just been improving very slowly via practice.


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## mark49152 (Nov 17, 2016)

pipkiksass said:


> Much as I'd love to learn according to Mark's consistent and sensible regime, I do find it easier to learn by shape.


My guide does group them by shape, and orders the shape groups by move savings. That's what I meant by "U-sticker group". The word shape eluded me for some reason 

Edit: Look at the table at the bottom left of the first linked PDF. You'll see that knight moves are mid-table with an average saving of 5.56 moves compared to 2-look, based on the algs listed.

Having looked at that post and docs again, it does look overcomplicated. I had stared at details for a long time. Maybe it could use a clean-up to make it more user-friendly!


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## mafergut (Nov 17, 2016)

earth2dan said:


> I think I need a more structured approach to learn the rest though. My biggest challenge is I need to put that dang timer away and switch my brain back into learning mode. I haven't really learned anything new in a long time, I've just been improving very slowly via practice.



Exact same problem here with the timer and not learning anything in a long time 

I happened to learn full OLL when I still was much slower and that, I'm afraid, led to learning some bad algs. 3 or 4 I have changed but the rest are still there, including some lefty mirrors that I'm sure are slower than righty alternatives but they seemed so easy to learn at the time... mistake!!! Now I can't easily get rid of them. Those 4-5 moves on average you will be saving will grant you 1 second at least. Not sure how many of your solves are now 1 look vs 2 look OLL but maybe your average can improve by more than half a second just by finishing full OLL. Worth it.


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## mark49152 (Nov 17, 2016)

Guys, I added a TL;DR to the top of that OLL guide - let me know what you think!


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## earth2dan (Nov 17, 2016)

mafergut said:


> including some lefty mirrors that I'm sure are slower than righty alternatives but they seemed so easy to learn at the time... mistake!!!


I don't know if I'd call that a mistake per say. If you're proficient with the mirror and the righty alternative has a different starting position you'll be ready to attack that OLL from multiple angles, speeding up recognition and eliminating U set ups. I have a couple PLL's where I learned new algs from a different starting position, but I'll often use my original alg to avoid set ups or cube rotations if the case appears in the right starting position for it. I really need to do this with my U perms, so many wasted moves because I can't execute them from the back.



mark49152 said:


> Guys, I added a TL;DR to the top of that OLL guide - let me know what you think!


Beautiful


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## mafergut (Nov 17, 2016)

earth2dan said:


> I don't know if I'd call that a mistake per say. If you're proficient with the mirror and the righty alternative has a different starting position you'll be ready to attack that OLL from multiple angles, speeding up recognition and eliminating U set ups. I have a couple PLL's where I learned new algs from a different starting position, but I'll often use my original alg to avoid set ups or cube rotations if the case appears in the right starting position for it. I really need to do this with my U perms, so many wasted moves because I can't execute them from the back.



To be honest that doesn't work for me. I end up not using the other alg and forgetting it in a few months. With PLLs I just know two PLLs for U perms but I learned the <M,U> ones (my main ones are the <R,U> ones) and I'm much slower with those that I think it pays for me to do pre and post AUF, maybe not with both but for sure with the one that has the U's. As I do M2 with my left ring and middle I have to do the U' with my right index in OH fashion (push on FUR with the back of the finger) and I'm terrible at that. Other PLLs that I changed the alg for I have already forgotten the old algs and the only other PLL I know for different orientations is A perms, but it's just lefty mirror again. I'm a bit slower here with left but if the orientation is already correct for left I am proficient enough to save some time avoiding cube rotations or AUFs, also because A perms have a rotation and the post AUF ends up being on B instead of on U, with takes a bit more time to regrip/rotate back.


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## megagoune (Nov 17, 2016)

earth2dan said:


> Anyone here know full OLL? I know less than half and I two look most cases. Looking for some tips on how to learn the rest efficiently. If I can stay focused, and avoid distraction or falling into bad habits I can consistently squeak out a sub-20 average, but globally I'm still around 20.3. I know I get a lot of sup-20 solves where my bad OLL is pushing me over 20.
> 
> Do you recommend learning them in groups of similar cases, or just powering through drilling one at a time until it's down? I usually go to http://algdb.net/ for algs.
> 
> The Winter months are when I seem to make all my speedcubing progress, then I just kind of coast through Summer. I've set some Winter goals for myself and I'm sure I can hit my big cube goals with just practice and improving look-ahead, but I think I'm due to learn some new algs to improve 3x3.



I remember the good old times of learning full OLL. Learning full sets, at least for me, drops your times suddenly, and it feels super nice. I learned OLL to drop under 30s.
I learned by groups or U sticker shapes (P, T, W, knight, awkward...). I find useful to associate a name to an alg (or at least a group of algs).
The main problem I had, and I have no solution for it, is that it's difficult to setup a case. When learning PLL, most of them are the inverse of themselves, but not for OLL. So you have to repeat the same OLL many times to come back to solve state. It meant longer time to learn how to recognize cases for me.


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## newtonbase (Nov 17, 2016)

I'm probably less than halfway through OLL but I know 3 of each U perm!


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## Shaky Hands (Nov 17, 2016)

megagoune said:


> The main problem I had, and I have no solution for it, is that it's difficult to setup a case. When learning PLL, most of them are the inverse of themselves, but not for OLL. So you have to repeat the same OLL many times to come back to solve state. It meant longer time to learn how to recognize cases for me.



You can setup fairly easily by reversing the alg.

e.g.: to setup the easy T-case solved by F [R U R' U'] F' you can setup with F [U R U' R'] F' or to setup the other T-case solved by [R U R' U'] [R' F R F'] you can setup with [F R' F' R] [U R U' R'].

This should be quicker than cycling the cube's state by repeating the alg multiple times.


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## pglewis (Nov 17, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> Guys, I added a TL;DR to the top of that OLL guide - let me know what you think!



Nice touch, thumbs up. I love this guide, I started down the same road but not spending the time to gather real metrics, just glancing at the algs and going by "feel". Made my day when you linked it a few weeks ago. 



megagoune said:


> The main problem I had, and I have no solution for it, is that it's difficult to setup a case. When learning PLL, most of them are the inverse of themselves, but not for OLL.



You probably know you can just invert the alg, reading it backwards and reversing all clockwise/anticlockwise moves. Granted, I probably have a 60% flub rate when I do it that way. alg.cubing.net has a button in options to invert whatever you paste into the moves. 



earth2dan said:


> Do you recommend learning them in groups of similar cases, or just powering through drilling one at a time until it's down?



The advice I always see and can verify it holds true for me as well: learn all the algs for a shape. That way, you see the shape and you know you can 1-look it, rather than spend time figuring out if you know that one or not.


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## h2f (Nov 17, 2016)

I have a very busy week. I got nice 58.xx 3bld solve. After few hours I did another few solves and the first was this:





There's a lot of room for improvment but I was tired. Execution was 35 and it took 82stm 82/35=2,34 - in fact it was a little bit more due to fact I did one comm twice because I knew I did it inverserly.


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## Selkie (Nov 18, 2016)

@h2f Grzegorz, great solve mate with a wow memo!, so, so motivating.

Mixed week for me, trying to get a sub 6m 7x7 mean and so close but with a 5:44.xy single hopefully get it on on film tomorrow.

Life a bit stressy last week or so, have a PB for Risk of Redundancy which Should be an official average by Christmas!!


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## mark49152 (Nov 18, 2016)

That's crappy news Chris, I hope it works out.


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## Jason Green (Nov 18, 2016)

I learned OLL by printing at bad mephisto's cheat sheet and picking out whatever looked easy progressing to hard. This is not how I would suggest.  I should probably get some better ones, but I just know lookahead is my biggest pitfall still that's why I still mostly just practice. 

Also @MarcelP has an OLL trainer software that's pretty cool! I didn't use it much though.


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## Shaky Hands (Nov 18, 2016)

Good luck Chris. Hope everything works out as best as possible.


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## kbrune (Nov 18, 2016)

@mark9152

That 4 BLD solve.. wow! 

Learning 4 and 5 blind will be coming soon for me. I'm really enjoying BLD much more these days. I managed my first sub 3 min 3BLD recently and I've made a first attempt at 5 MBLD. Got 4/5 in 48.xx. I need to organize a better memo system though if I'm going to improve more. My memo isn't very efficient. Do you use Roman rooms for longer memo? What's your memo strategy? Anything you wish you knew in your earlier days?

@h2f 
Very nice sub 1 solves. Same questions to you.


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## JohnnyReggae (Nov 18, 2016)

earth2dan said:


> Anyone here know full OLL? I know less than half and I two look most cases. Looking for some tips on how to learn the rest efficiently. If I can stay focused, and avoid distraction or falling into bad habits I can consistently squeak out a sub-20 average, but globally I'm still around 20.3. I know I get a lot of sup-20 solves where my bad OLL is pushing me over 20.
> 
> Do you recommend learning them in groups of similar cases, or just powering through drilling one at a time until it's down? I usually go to http://algdb.net/ for algs.
> 
> The Winter months are when I seem to make all my speedcubing progress, then I just kind of coast through Summer. I've set some Winter goals for myself and I'm sure I can hit my big cube goals with just practice and improving look-ahead, but I think I'm due to learn some new algs to improve 3x3.


Knowing full OLL will definitely help shave off a few seconds. It took me around 6 months in total to learn full OLL. it can obviously be done much faster. I worked through the shapes, grouping similar shapes together. I used this as a reference initially and then built up a spreadsheet will all the algorithms that I use ... http://www.cubewhiz.com/oll.php

I don't use all the algs in the link above, but rather tried to find algs that suited me using http://algdb.net/ . I have even changed some algs that I used for quite a while because I didn't like the way they flowed. I still have some OLL's that I really don't like executing but haven't found alternatives that I like.

There are also more alternative OLL algs here ... https://www.speedsolving.com/wiki/index.php/OLL

Definitely persevere it will pay off. I must say with OH I do mostly 2Look for OLL and it frustrates me having to do 2Look, but I don't have the energy ATM to learn almost another full set of OLL algs.


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## mafergut (Nov 18, 2016)

Sorry to hear that, Chris. I hope it all ends well.

Also, Grzegorz, you make it look easy! Go for that official sub 1!


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## mark49152 (Nov 18, 2016)

kbrune said:


> Do you use Roman rooms for longer memo? What's your memo strategy? Anything you wish you knew in your earlier days?


Thanks Ken. Yes I use rooms for BigBLD and MBLD. On 4BLD I use audio for centres and memo those last, execute first. 

The only major change I made since the early days was to compile a letter pair image list. At first I convinced myself that it was better to go with whatever came into my head naturally, but it's hard to get faster that way when there are weird letter combinations. So I created a spreadsheet and chose an image for every pair. I went for images that are visually strong and all distinct from each other, then used Anki to drill them until my recall is instant. Now my memo forms much more quickly when I read the cube, and I don't stumble over difficult pairs.

I also started using more locations, and I cycle them so I don't confuse memos between adjacent solves. I have several buildings, each of which can be used for four MBLD cubes or 4BLDs, or two 5BLDs, on different floors or in different groups of rooms. So if I'm doing 4BLD practice I have more than enough locations that I don't have to reuse any in the same day, and they all get plenty of practice so they are clear when I come to use them for a big MBLD.


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## muchacho (Nov 18, 2016)

A fast Square-1 solve for me, I'm averaging around 1:20.








Spoiler: Screw method



- Cubeshape

- DL Block (CEC group) - Intuitive
M2: 1,0 / -1,-1 / 0,1

- DR Block (CEC group) - Intuitive
M2: 1,0 / -1,-1 / 0,1

- U Layer Corner Permutation
J: / 3,-3 / 3,0 / -3,0 / 0,3 / -3,0 /
N: / 3,3 / 3,0 / 3,3 / 3,0 / 3,3 /

- UR / UL Edges
M2: 1,0 / -1,-1 / 0,1
M'U2MU2: / 3,0 / 0,3 / 1,0 / 0,-1 / 0,1 / -1,-3 / -3,0 /

- M Slice
M2: 1,0 / -1,-1 / 0,1
M'U2MU2: / 3,0 / 0,3 / 1,0 / 0,-1 / 0,1 / -1,-3 / -3,0 /

- Parity
UOpp: / 3,3 / -1,0 / 2,-4 / 4,-2 / 0,-2 / -4,2 / 1,-5 / 3,0 / 3,3 / 3,0


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## h2f (Nov 18, 2016)

kbrune said:


> Same questions to you.



Follow Mark's advice. There's nothing more. I've noticed a little progress in last few weeks. What I did? First, a I've rebuilt my memo scheme I mean word/images and I've found a better ones (vivid) for a letter pairs I havent got good word. Second, I've practiced algs and I've stopped to care about efficiency. There's a lot dnf series, but who cares. 



Selkie said:


> @h2f Grzegorz, great solve mate with a wow memo!, so, so motivating.



Thanks.


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## mark49152 (Nov 18, 2016)

Your memo is looking good, Grzegorz. 24 seconds is getting fast. Mine has gone backwards. I did a 1:13 mo7 on video after breakfast and the memo averaged 36, a few second slower than two months ago. My execution has got faster though. 

An example for Ken @kbrune: the letter pair OK is obvious... except that "okay" is hard to visualise and thus easy to forget when you come back to it during execution. So I replaced it with okra.


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## Shaky Hands (Nov 18, 2016)

Selkie said:


> So apparently Marty has had a delivery of Qiyi WuHua 6x6's. I'll be hovering about the store waiting this evening. Really want to put a lot of effort into 4x4 and 6x6 for Birmingham Open and yes and of course now 3BLD too



OK, so my Qiyi 6x6 has arrived. First turns are very stiff and I may have underestimated the number of solves I did on the Yuxin 6x6. I've started to work some lube in. No pops or lockups after 30 minutes of solving.

Anyone else have the Qiyi 6x6 yet?


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## phreaker (Nov 18, 2016)

earth2dan said:


> 3x3 - I am definitely getting the Gans 356 Air, but I'm torn on whether or not I want the Valk 3. Anyone here swear by the Valk 3?
> Others - Anyone fallen in love with a new puzzle in recent months that they wish to recommend? I'm all ears.


I love my stickerless Valk 3. Big, big fan. Strangely, in some ways I prefer the 356v2 over the air.


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## MarcelP (Nov 18, 2016)

Selkie said:


> Life a bit stressy last week or so, have a PB for Risk of Redundancy which Should be an official average by Christmas!!



I do not know what that means but I wish you good luck because it does not sound good.


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## phreaker (Nov 18, 2016)

Took a break of 2-3 days, found the following things:

1. I'm still struggling to get to full PLL. 6 to go. (G(a-d), N(a,b)), I slip back every so often on V and R(b).
2. EOLine is finally falling into place. I finally can trace DU/DB, most of the time, my times are starting to drop, again.
3. OH ZZF2L, is a bit different than normal ZZ F2L, because you do a z rotation time to time, so you see the D face. If you can see the D face, you know the entire cube. In 2H solving, I find not knowing that a bit odd still. Maybe as I get better at tracking more pieces.

Current times, best solves are hovering around 1:00. They are falling, at a decent clip, but OH only allows for so much practice due to hand wear. 

Re: Cubing in public, OH cubing in public tends to really make an impression from what I can tell. And being told I'm fast at 1:00 is so strange hanging out on this forum. 1:00, I have so much distance to cover. Once I get full PLL, and the recog down... I expect I'll drop to sub 1, along with more F2L + EOLine practice.

ZZ's F2L is so, interesting.... I truly enjoy it. I'm actually considering taking up Roux, because of my like for block building.


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## Logiqx (Nov 18, 2016)

Selkie said:


> @h2fLife a bit stressy last week or so, have a PB for Risk of Redundancy which Should be an official average by Christmas!!



Damn. I hope things work out for you.



muchacho said:


>



Nice background image!

Anyone learning OLL might find DIY cheat sheets useful.

https://www.speedsolving.com/forum/threads/diy-oll-algorithm-cheat-sheet.46715/#post-960418

Courtesy of @Logiqx + @pipkiksass


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## muchacho (Nov 18, 2016)

phreaker said:


> Re: Cubing in public, OH cubing in public tends to really make an impression from what I can tell. And being told I'm fast at 1:00 is so strange hanging out on this forum. 1:00, I have so much distance to cover. Once I get full PLL, and the recog down... I expect I'll drop to sub 1, along with more F2L + EOLine practice.


I don't do OH in public, I fear people may think I'm showing off, even if I'm only trying to get some practice or just not getting bored.



phreaker said:


> ZZ's F2L is so, interesting.... I truly enjoy it. I'm actually considering taking up Roux, because of my like for block building.


Try, it may help even if you keep ZZ as your main.


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## muchacho (Nov 18, 2016)

Logiqx said:


> Nice background image!


Nice avatar! 

Someone posted it in the Roux Facebook page a few months ago. I have not practiced OH much lately, but I'll keep using the image, I like it.


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## muchacho (Nov 18, 2016)

Ouch, Google may have just teached me what Risk of Redundancy means, hope it resolves in the best way.


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## Logiqx (Nov 18, 2016)

A few nice solves recorded earlier today. Thank COLL it's Friday!

The latest Friday Fours (episode #24) said "This week we're doing a cross on orange" so I included one in my video.


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## Selkie (Nov 18, 2016)

@mark49152, @Shaky Hands , @mafergut , @MarcelP , @Logiqx , @muchacho - Thank you all for your kind word. I am genuinely touched and appreciate the thoughts. I'll learn more over the next few weeks but its does not look good at this point in time. One thing is for sure I am pretty certain I did not put Job Loss on my Christmas list this year!  Still attending Birmingham Open, in fact this is the reason I am now attending both days as I suspect I may not get to a comp early next year.

@Shaky Hands - Agonizingly yes I have a Qiyi 6x6. Or at least a parcel has arrived which I must not open as it has some puzzles for my Birthday on Monday from my wife but there is a Qiyi 6x6 in there and its less than 6 feet from me!! In anticipation, I got my exploded Yuxin out and reconstructed it and set the tensions tighter. It solves better now with less pops and I managed the following session which just about what I average. Going to do a comparrison ao12 on the Qiyi on Monday together with an unboxing video of the puzzles. But being my birthday I suspect it will be called an "Unwrapping" 

6x6
number of times: 12/12
best time: 3:45.88
worst time: 4:24.88

current mo3: 4:14.18 (σ = 10.30)
best mo3: 4:01.60 (σ = 15.30)

current avg5: 4:07.29 (σ = 7.94)
best avg5: 4:07.29 (σ = 7.94)

current avg12: 4:11.10 (σ = 8.87)
best avg12: 4:11.10 (σ = 8.87)


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## h2f (Nov 18, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> Your memo is looking good, Grzegorz. 24 seconds is getting fast. Mine has gone backwards. I did a 1:13 mo7 on video after breakfast and the memo averaged 36, a few second slower than two months ago. My execution has got faster though.



Thanks Mark. Sub-25 or sub20 memos come to me in a last few weeks but they very seldom become sub-1 solves. There's too much thinkign during solves mostly by figuring out algs.

About Valk3 - I got a black one and stickerless. The black has the other feeling than stickereless. Maybe because of white plastic in a stickerless... The shades are awsome and I dont want to change them. It took me 2 days to get used to but finally sub19 ao100.

Have you noticed that corners are a little bit gummy - I mean the foot (I dont know how to call it) of the corner. You can swing it...


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## kbrune (Nov 18, 2016)

@Selkie 
Sorry to hear about your misfortune. Wishing you the best! 

@mark49152
Ive been tryin to come up with images on the fly at the suggestion of Noahs bld Videos but creativity is probably my biggest weakness. So I've started compiling my pairs list a few months ago but I haven't put enough time into it. It's about 1/3 done. I'll have to get on that.

What's the drilling strategy you mentioned to learn your image pairs? Akrin or Ankin. Forgive my inaccuracy, forgot what word you used and I can't go back to look. 

@ everyone who was talking about learning full OLL. It was the first thing I did. Memorized all of them. I'm glad I did because I feel like I would have become too lazy to learn them the faster I became. Although the draw back of learning them all at once is that i didn't spend any time searching for finger trick friendly algs. There are quite a few that need revision. 

On a side note. To all of you who are just as if not faster then me and aren't full OLL.. I hate you.. in the meanest way possible  lol


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## muchacho (Nov 18, 2016)

Anki


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## pglewis (Nov 18, 2016)

muchacho said:


> No video, I've filmed like 1 out of every 500 solves, fastest is a 16 seconds one ...



Thumb over the top for F moves, eh? I'll be stealing that and adding it to the toolbelt!


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## muchacho (Nov 18, 2016)

Also for F', and sometimes with the other hand also... what I almost never do is using my index finger (well, in some algs) but I should probably try more.


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## pglewis (Nov 18, 2016)

Yeah, I've only done either index over the top or thumb from the bottom before. Initially I thought "yeah, nice, but that would be awkward"... surprisingly it isn't for me and avoids the grip shift for index finger in lots of situations. Thumbs up... so to speak.


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## mark49152 (Nov 18, 2016)

kbrune said:


> What's the drilling strategy you mentioned to learn your image pairs? Akrin or Ankin. Forgive my inaccuracy, forgot what word you used and I can't go back to look.


Anki. It's a flash card tool. I set it up to flash letter pairs at me and I can hit buttons for fail/easy/hard depending on whether I recall the image. It takes care of repeating them as appropriate until no mistakes. 

Another example today of why vivid images are essential. I failed a 4BLD on one letter, by mixing up polar bear and panda. Obviously they aren't distinct enough when I use them in a scene. I will have to change one of them.


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## earth2dan (Nov 18, 2016)

@Selkie. Tough news to get right before the holidays, but keep positive. Even if it doesn't work out, closing an old door is just an opportunity to open a new one. 

@mark49152 10 points for the Anki recommendation. I can see lots of applications for this tool. I may use it with my kids, who seem to be struggling with math.

I have begun my full OLL journey in earnest. Starting with the Dots. I've got them all memorized now, just need to drill more so I don't forget. I'm going to avoid the timer as much as possible for a while, and even when timing I'm going to force myself to use the new algs, and not fall back on the old 2-Look. I'm sure it'll impact my times initially, but will pay off once I have recognition and execution down.

Just for fun last night I tore down my black YueXiao, cleaned, lubed, tensioned, and restickered it. After some break in solves it's back on my desk as a possible main. My Cubicle Gans 356 V2 is still my go to, but sometimes it's just too wobbly for me and I need a more stable cube, that's where the YueXiao comes back into the picture. We shall see when my Gans Air and Stickerless Valk3 arrive.


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## kbrune (Nov 18, 2016)

@mark49152
How do you deal with sequence when recalling? I mean I'm sure once I start using rooms it'll help with pair sequence. But up until now I normally stack images one on top of the next like a totem pole. Using zoom ins to go from edge to corner memo and to new cubes. But that is getting difficult already.

@earth2dan 
That reminds me. When I learned full OLL. I would usually drill them all once or twice before a timed session. More so when I had just learned them. I'd go through my list, look at each picture and solve each case till I did them all. Sometimes just go through them twice if I haven't solved that day.


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## pglewis (Nov 18, 2016)

It has been feeling like a good lookahead day for me in practice so I broke out the timer and did a quick ao12. Three sub 40 and another four sub 44... too bad another quarter of them were over 50 or it would have been a nice one for me. I can definitely nearly taste a sub 40 ao5 though, think it's gonna happen today/tonight.


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## mark49152 (Nov 18, 2016)

kbrune said:


> How do you deal with sequence when recalling? I mean I'm sure once I start using rooms it'll help with pair sequence. But up until now I normally stack images one on top of the next like a totem pole. Using zoom ins to go from edge to corner memo and to new cubes. But that is getting difficult already.


Yeah that's a challenge. I don't have a rigid structure like a totem. My scenes usually tell a story, like person does action to adjective object. Sometimes the words can get reordered when recalling a scene, and I try to make the ordering unambiguous to avoid that.

OK here's an example memo of 4BLD wings.

MC GF QD HT WI / LB KN JO XR IA

I always group five pairs into each scene. 

Scottish golfer pays a quid (British pound) for a hat and puts it on a Wii. No major problem with the order here as the story is clear. It's the first scene so the event takes place in my living room. I clearly visualise the man in tartan golf kit exchanging a pound coin for a hat and throwing it over a Wii. The temptation might be to have the payment implied and not visualise the pound coin, but that makes it more likely to be forgotten.

I do have multiple images for some pairs, so in other combinations, MC could be microphone and GF could be giraffe, if those fit better.

Ladybird, Kanye, Jo, scar, Iago (parrot from Aladdin). All strong images but no immediately obvious story. Rather than put them in a row and hope to recall them in correct order, I'll create some causal order, like a giant ladybird lands on Kanye who shouts a warning to Jo who is busy causing some disfiguring injury to Iago, or something like that, all taking place on my dining table. Often the scenes get quite weird but that can make them more memorable .


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## pglewis (Nov 18, 2016)

Yep, it was a good day. Session with 17 solves yielded PRs across the board: 

single: 32.048 (second and a half drop)
mo3: 37.147
ao5: 39.378 (finally)
ao12: 41.760 (dropped about 3 seconds)

Not even at my potential really... a few repaired crosses, CFOOP and CFOOOP still landing low 40s. Also missed a likely sub 30 earlier with a friendly F2L, COLL, T-perm... which I flubbed in the last 3 moves then panicked trying to salvage it and made it worse, ending in a 1:15  .


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## kbrune (Nov 19, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> Yeah that's a challenge. I don't have a rigid structure like a totem. My scenes usually tell a story, like person does action to adjective object. Sometimes the words can get reordered when recalling a scene, and I try to make the ordering unambiguous to avoid that.
> Often the scenes get quite weird but that can make them more memorable .



Im afraid that's what is going to limit my progress in Bigger blind and MBLD. My creativity isn't great. Coming up with stories quickly on the fly is a problem for me. I'm hoping that by doing it more, I'll eventually get better at it. 

For MBLD I currently only have 5 cubes in my possession. 2 of which aren't very good. One of the the center caps constantsly fall off and the other the corner pieces keep coming apart. Im going to buy some new ones that i'll use for Mbld. Any suggestions on a cost efficient cube that feels good to solve?


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## One Wheel (Nov 19, 2016)

kbrune said:


> Im afraid that's what is going to limit my progress in Bigger blind and MBLD. My creativity isn't great. Coming up with stories quickly on the fly is a problem for me. I'm hoping that by doing it more, I'll eventually get better at it.
> 
> For MBLD I currently only have 5 cubes in my possession. 2 of which aren't very good. One of the the center caps constantsly fall off and the other the corner pieces keep coming apart. Im going to buy some new ones that i'll use for Mbld. Any suggestions on a cost efficient cube that feels good to solve?



I'm the rankest of amateurs at blind, but one idea I'm working on is populating my word list with postal codes and elements from the periodic table. I don't know if imagining a map will make MBLD more difficult, but that's what I'm trying right now.

As to a decent budget cube, I'm guessing you probably won't beat the V1 thunderclap.


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## newtonbase (Nov 19, 2016)

kbrune said:


> Im afraid that's what is going to limit my progress in Bigger blind and MBLD. My creativity isn't great. Coming up with stories quickly on the fly is a problem for me. I'm hoping that by doing it more, I'll eventually get better at it.
> 
> For MBLD I currently only have 5 cubes in my possession. 2 of which aren't very good. One of the the center caps constantsly fall off and the other the corner pieces keep coming apart. Im going to buy some new ones that i'll use for Mbld. Any suggestions on a cost efficient cube that feels good to solve?


I tell non cubers that a good imagination is more important than a good memory in blind. They don't often believe me. 

@One Wheel is right and @mark49152 will agree, you can't go wrong with the Thunderclap v1. It's cheap, solid, reliable and it feels nice. The bumpiness helps you keep track of where you are.


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## kbrune (Nov 19, 2016)

I know now more then ever that imagination and creativity is the key to improving most skills in life. I've always been more of a bulldozer type when learning anything. I have a little natural skill. Sheer obsession and repetition is what has netted me the majority of my progress. But I've always been held back by my creativity. Anything can be improved though. Just gotta focus on it more!

Thanks for the advice on cube choice. @newtonbase @One Wheel. I'll take a look at it. Is it made by Qiyi? Am I right to assume that "Qiyi Thunderclap" would be the V1? Even if it doesn't say V1?


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## muchacho (Nov 19, 2016)

In some stores (zcube?) what they call just "Qiyi Thunderclap" is Qiyi Thunderclap v2, and the Thunderclap v1 is called there Thunderlbolt.

edit: the v2 has "the new thunderclap" in the box.


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## mark49152 (Nov 19, 2016)

kbrune said:


> Im afraid that's what is going to limit my progress in Bigger blind and MBLD. My creativity isn't great. Coming up with stories quickly on the fly is a problem for me. I'm hoping that by doing it more, I'll eventually get better at it.


Yes it's just practice. It gets easier and faster. Personally I don't think it requires much creativity. My images aren't created on the fly, they are regurgitated from a spreadsheet. Forming them into a story is just a matter of connecting them in the first way that comes into my head, which tends to be obvious or mundane rather than creative, because you don't have time for creativity when solving against the clock .

And for cubes, yes I use Thunderclap v1 for MBLD. Zcube does very good bulk discounts for 6 or more.



One Wheel said:


> I'm the rankest of amateurs at blind, but one idea I'm working on is populating my word list with postal codes and elements from the periodic table. I don't know if imagining a map will make MBLD more difficult, but that's what I'm trying right now.


How will you visualise Boron and Nitrogen in south-west Birmingham? And for MBLD how are you going to remember the order of dozens of random postal areas on a map?


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## MarcelP (Nov 19, 2016)

Selkie said:


> - Thank you all for your kind word. I am genuinely touched and appreciate the thoughts. I'll learn more over the next few weeks but its does not look good at this point in time. One thing is for sure I am pretty certain I did not put Job Loss on my Christmas list this year!  Still attending Birmingham Open, in fact this is the reason I am now attending both days as I suspect I may not get to a comp early next year.



Chris, hang in there. it may seem hopeless or really bad right now. I have been working at a bank that went bankrupt. Lost my job in a matter of days when I did not even had the slightest clue it was going that bad with the bank. (Being a sole provider for my family and having a 3 months old baby and a new mortgage it seemed then damn hopeless for me) But being forced to look for a job made find an even better job than I had. Sometimes closing one door opens a new door with great opportunities. I still work in the financial business and few times per year we have reorganisations with people losing their job. I try to stay ahead by keep learning and certifying myself. Other than that there is not much you can do against protecting from losing your job. I hope you will get some assurance of a bright future really soon.


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## One Wheel (Nov 19, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> How will you visualise Boron and Nitrogen in south-west Birmingham? And for MBLD how are you going to remember the order of dozens of random postal areas on a map?



I'm still figuring it out. Boron and nitrogen are both single letters, so I won't use those. So far I've stuck with postal codes I know, which for me is US and Canada, and it's pretty easy for me to visualize a road trip. I just don't know if that will get in the way of the Roman rooms memorization that is recommended for mbld.


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## Selkie (Nov 19, 2016)

@MarcelP - Very wise words my friends and thank you. In all honesty I do feel positive about the future and most emotion is not about that side of things but more how all the efforts I have put in over the last 10 years are not valued. I go above and beyond the call of duty on a weekly basis. But on a positive I have picked up a lot of skills over the last few years and my business analysis and business intelligence skillset should stand me in good stead. Still uncertain times ahead but keeping my chin up for the best part of it at the moment  Thanks also @kbrune and @earth2dan . We may have a very niche pastime but our community and support for each other is second to none. Proud to be a cuber.


Well with the Yuxin 6x6 tensioned properly (Thanks @mark49152 as that was based on your comments a few weeks ago) and in anticipation of trying out the Qiyi on Monday been doing some solves. I am quite eager to get a sub 4 minute official mean soon to qualify for the event at UKC next year but managed a PB single and mean this morning. Talking of IT skillsets the second solve even includes confirmation that the laser printer is working. Had to mute the last section as I thought hearing my wife complain at the lack of our son's attention to his revision might not be for public listening haha.

6x6 mo3: 3:51.42 with a single of 3:38.98


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## biscuit (Nov 19, 2016)

earth2dan said:


> @Selkie. Tough news to get right before the holidays, but keep positive. Even if it doesn't work out, closing an old door is just an opportunity to open a new one.
> 
> @mark49152 10 points for the Anki recommendation. I can see lots of applications for this tool. I may use it with my kids, who seem to be struggling with math.
> 
> ...



My advice would be to learn the other OLL's first. I find them easier to learn, and I barely ever get dot cases because of EO control. Basically you figure out how different inserts effect the EO so you never get dot cases, and many times you'll get a corners only OLL which is REALLY nice. It doesn't really add any moves, it's no harder to do, and it saves a bunch of time.


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## mafergut (Nov 19, 2016)

Selkie said:


> @MarcelPWell with the Yuxin 6x6 tensioned properly (Thanks @mark49152 as that was based on your comments a few weeks ago) and in anticipation of trying out the Qiyi on Monday been doing some solves. I am quite eager to get a sub 4 minute official mean soon to qualify for the event at UKC next year but managed a PB single and mean this morning. Talking of IT skillsets the second solve even includes confirmation that the laser printer is working. Had to mute the last section as I thought hearing my wife complain at the lack of our son's attention to his revision might not be for public listening haha.
> 
> 6x6 mo3: 3:51.42 with a single of 3:38.98



Wow! That 1st solve is incredible. It's almost exactly 1 minute slower than my PB single... for 5x5. But the curious thing is that you had already lost that minute in centers (you finished centers at around 1:50 and it usually takes me 45-55 seconds to do 5x5 centers) so... your 6x6 edge pairing + 3x3 stage is basically as fast as my 5x5 edges + 3x3. I feel embarrased.


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## kbrune (Nov 19, 2016)

https://www.cubingoutloud.com/collections/3x3x3?page=2

On this page it shows both options i have for the thunderclap. Both are the same price. May as well go for the V2?


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## h2f (Nov 19, 2016)

kbrune said:


> https://www.cubingoutloud.com/collections/3x3x3?page=2
> 
> On this page it shows both options i have for the thunderclap. Both are the same price. May as well go for the V2?



Personally I dont like v2. V1 is better.


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## muchacho (Nov 19, 2016)

Thunderclap v2 is worse than v1, both for bld and normal solving, at least that's what everyone says.


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## newtonbase (Nov 19, 2016)

I much prefer the v1.


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## Shaky Hands (Nov 19, 2016)

@Selkie, am finding the Qiyi 6x6 improving. I have re-tensioned it, popped it, rebuilt it, done a bunch of casual solves, worked lube in and it's getting there. I might now have it a bit too loose, but am experimenting. The factory setting on mine was terrible.


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## mark49152 (Nov 19, 2016)

http://www.zcube.vip/Brand/qiyi/QYmfg-333-Thunderbolt

$4.10 Canadian plus shipping, for 6+ units. 

@h2f, how is the 6BLD going?


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## pglewis (Nov 19, 2016)

kbrune said:


> https://www.cubingoutloud.com/collections/3x3x3?page=2
> 
> On this page it shows both options i have for the thunderclap. Both are the same price. May as well go for the V2?



I'll just pile on: I have a pair of V1s and it was my main until the Valk. The V2 is definitely a different design with the full squared-off corners and doesn't seem to have wowed anyone from the reviews/impressions I've read.


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## newtonbase (Nov 19, 2016)

The only real issue anyone had with the v1 was the occasional corner twist. They did fix that in the v2 but made it too catchy and the balance just isn't right.


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## pglewis (Nov 19, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> The only real issue anyone had with the v1 was the occasional corner twist. They did fix that in the v2 but made it too catchy and the balance just isn't right.



I was about to edit and post the exact same thing. I've personally never had it corner twist during a solve, with thousands of solves on the pair... keeping in mind that at my speed I'm probably set to a little tighter tensions than others.


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## Lid (Nov 19, 2016)

Finally ... a pure sub20 avg 12 on Sq-1 ...
17.198, 17.116[p], (19.884), 19.310[p], 13.876, 18.635, 17.990, 17.791, 15.852, 18.377[p], 17.629, (13.669) = 17.377 (not PB)

Last one was a relief ...
2,-3/-4,0/1,0/-2,0/-1,-2/-3,0/ || CS
1,6/ || CO
6,0/3,0/3,0/-1,-1/-3,0/-3,0/ || EO
1,0/-3,-3/6,0/3,3/2,-2 || PBL 



Spoiler: Times & Scambles



Average of 12: 17.377
1. 17.198 (0, 5) / (3, -3) / (0, -3) / (-2, -2) / (0, -3) / (2, -3) / (6, -3) / (-3, -5) / (6, -1) / (4, 0) / (-1, 0) / (-4, 0)
2. 17.116[p] (0, 5) / (-5, 4) / (5, -1) / (1, -2) / (-1, -4) / (0, -2) / (0, -3) / (6, -3) / (-4, 0) / (0, -4) / (0, -2) / (-3, -4)
3. (19.884) (0, 2) / (4, -2) / (-3, 0) / (5, -4) / (0, -2) / (3, 0) / (1, 0) / (-4, 0) / (-4, 0) / (3, 0) / (2, 0) / (-2, -1) /
4. 19.310[p] (0, 2) / (4, -5) / (5, -1) / (0, -3) / (-3, -3) / (6, -2) / (3, 0) / (1, -4) / (-2, 0) / (0, -4) / (2, -3) / (-4, -3)
5. 13.876 (0, -1) / (-5, -2) / (5, -4) / (-5, -2) / (0, -3) / (-4, -3) / (-3, 0) / (0, -1) / (0, -5) / (3, 0) /
6. 18.635 (4, 0) / (-1, -1) / (-5, -2) / (-3, 0) / (6, 0) / (-1, 0) / (0, -3) / (0, -1) / (-2, 0) / (2, -4) / (4, 0) / (-2, -1) /
7. 17.990 (0, 5) / (3, 0) / (-3, 0) / (0, -3) / (4, -5) / (3, 0) / (-3, 0) / (2, 0) / (-3, 0) / (0, -3) / (0, -3) / (-2, 0) / (-4, 0) / (4, 0) / (-2, 0)
8. 17.791 (-3, 2) / (-3, 0) / (4, -5) / (-1, -4) / (0, -5) / (-3, -3) / (0, -3) / (0, -4) / (4, 0) / (-3, -2) / (6, -5) / (-4, 0) /
9. 15.852 (0, -1) / (1, 4) / (-3, 0) / (3, 0) / (5, -1) / (0, -3) / (4, 0) / (-3, -3) / (-5, 0) / (-2, 0) / (2, 0) / (-4, 0) / (-4, 0) / (-2, 0)
10. 18.377[p] (6, 5) / (3, 0) / (1, -5) / (-3, 0) / (3, 0) / (-3, -4) / (-3, 0) / (-1, 0) / (2, -3) / (4, 0) / (6, -2) / (2, 0) /
11. 17.629 (-5, 0) / (0, 3) / (0, -3) / (5, -4) / (-5, -5) / (3, 0) / (0, -1) / (-3, -3) / (3, 0) / (2, 0) / (6, -2) /
12. (13.669) (0, 5) / (-2, 4) / (-1, -4) / (4, -5) / (3, -4) / (-3, 0) / (-1, 0) / (2, 0) / (4, -5) / (2, -2) / (-2, -3) / (6, 0)


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## newtonbase (Nov 19, 2016)

pglewis said:


> I was about to edit and post the exact same thing. I've personally never had it corner twist during a solve, with thousands of solves on the pair... keeping in mind that at my speed I'm probably set to a little tighter tensions than others.


I don't get twists either, unless I let the kids play with them.


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## kbrune (Nov 19, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> http://www.zcube.vip/Brand/qiyi/QYmfg-333-Thunderbolt
> 
> $4.10 Canadian plus shipping, for 6+ units.
> 
> @h2f, how is the 6BLD going?



it shows a pound symbol next to the price. Are you sure it was in Canadian dollars? Only reason i was going through Cubing out loud is because the delegate that runs comps here is the guy who runs the cube shop. I can pick up orders at comps no shipping charge. But if it ends up cheaper elsewhere. Tough to justify paying more!

Where does Zcube ship from? China?


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## newtonbase (Nov 19, 2016)

kbrune said:


> Where does Zcube ship from? China?



Yes.


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## mark49152 (Nov 19, 2016)

kbrune said:


> it shows a pound symbol next to the price. Are you sure it was in Canadian dollars?


Yes. Currency selector in the top left on mobile. You have to sign in to see the bulk prices. They ship from Hong Kong. I avoid the cheapest shipping and go for ePacket which takes about a week to the UK. Shipping cost me almost as much as the cubes but that's because the cubes are so cheap


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## pglewis (Nov 19, 2016)

@Selkie: great solves and love the victory fist on the mid-3. Employer attitudes are becoming alarming to me. Employers expect a level of dedication and devotion but don't seem to have much appreciation in return. I feel optimistic though, smart competent people are always needed.


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## Selkie (Nov 19, 2016)

@mafergut - Dont ever, ever feel embarrassed Miguel. We all cube at our own pace and times and improvement comes mainly when when it is least expected. My official mean for 6x6, set this year is over 5 minutes! That first solve did flow well and got the luck of parities on my side. Cannot wait to open my presents on Monday morning as there will be a Qiyi to play with...

@Shaky Hands - How do you feel it compared to the Yuxin mate? To be fair my money is on the new Moyu 6x6 but I suspect I wont have that in time to break it in for Birmingham Open. The re-tensioning of the Yuxin has worked wonders and it feels like a completely different cube. Even when I get bad misalignments and various centers get mangled in different positions it does not pop now.

@kbrune - I completely agree with @h2f , @muchacho , @newtonbase , @pglewis . The v1 is far, far superior. I am a Qiyi man and most of my cubes are theirs given their excellent stickerless colouring. The v1 was clicky but smooth, the v2 has been completely over engineered, its clickiness is very extreme and I (amongst others) cannot get used to it at all. I have been trying to film a video for a month now. 6 sub 14 averages on 6 different Qiyi stickerless cubes in a day. I always get frustrated at the point I fail on the Thunderclap v2 and give up 

@mark49152 - I will pick your brains re BLD my friend. My few sucesses a feww years ago were based on a Person/Object/Place memo system on a journey but since that is automatically x3 memories per location I had issues realising when I had parity. P/O/P is still a lot easier to populate and learn that letter pair. What would you recommend mate as a starting point for 3BLD to nail the memo better?


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## Shaky Hands (Nov 19, 2016)

@Selkie I never really found the Yuxin 6x6 that pop-prone, but then again Joey borrowed that cube at Guildford and it popped for him in at least 2 of his 3 solves. I think his 3rd solve was sup-5m which is a very un-Joey time. May just be turning style.

I think the Qiyi just needs a lot of experimentation. It moves a lot better since retensioning. Maybe better than the Yuxin, still thinking over that. Difficult to compare a cube I know really well to one I've done only 30-40 solves on. Time will tell.


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## mark49152 (Nov 19, 2016)

Selkie said:


> My few sucesses a feww years ago were based on a Person/Object/Place memo system on a journey but since that is automatically x3 memories per location I had issues realising when I had parity. P/O/P is still a lot easier to populate and learn that letter pair. What would you recommend mate as a starting point for 3BLD to nail the memo better?


Were you using one letter per person, object and place? So three letters per scene? Yes that would make parity harder to spot, and it would also seem inefficient because you're memoing more images for fewer letters. You could continue to use POP if that works for you, but with a letter pair per person/object/place, so six letters per scene; but then you are learning three images per pair, and there are a lot of pairs. My suggestion would be to try regular letter pairs and see if you can make it work for you. It seems to be by far the most widely used approach.


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## Selkie (Nov 19, 2016)

@pglewis - Thanks Phil, was really pleased with the single. Beginning to love the more time consuming events. 6x6, 7x7 and Megaminx. As for the job front I completely agree. The hardest thing now is the waiting game. I'm happy to move on in whatever direction that takes me.

@mark49152 - I wasn't using pairs so yes, 3 targets per location. Perhaps I should invest the time in a pair system but might need to stick to something I know for Brum Open.

@Shaky Hands - Andy, getting more intrigued by the minute on opening my presents on Monday.


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## Selkie (Nov 19, 2016)

@Lid - Started on optimised Square-1 cube shape from your website. Any particular order you would recommend?


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## Lid (Nov 19, 2016)

Selkie said:


> @Lid - Started on optimised Square-1 cube shape from your website. Any particular order you would recommend?


Not really, I think I took it by shape of one of the layers to begin with, other than that solves^3.
Now I can do more or less how I like, doesn't have to be the same way each time.
Start with everything that needs 2, 3 or 4 twists + the 7 one. And I don't use most the solutions on the page, just see it as a simple guide, do what feels best for you, everything depends on the starting state.
The best is to understand what you can do with a certain shape, for most shapes there isn't a "best way".


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## mark49152 (Nov 19, 2016)

Selkie said:


> I wasn't using pairs so yes, 3 targets per location. Perhaps I should invest the time in a pair system but might need to stick to something I know for Brum Open.


Depends how happy you are with your current system I guess. Building a good set of pair images that will enable you to get faster does take an investment of time. But getting started with pairs is easy and I'm guessing you could probably switch to using an image per pair rather than an image per letter with just an hour or two of practice, based on ad-hoc images, or at least test it out and see if it's worth trying.


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## h2f (Nov 19, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> The only real issue anyone had with the v1 was the occasional corner twist. They did fix that in the v2 but made it too catchy and the balance just isn't right.



I had so many twists with v2 that I gave up... No more v2. 



mark49152 said:


> @h2f, how is the 6BLD going?



Thanks for reminder. I've seen on yt my first attempt and realized that it was almost 2 months ago. I didnt expect I will have so big amount of work when I was doing it. Finally these times are done in next few weeks and I can back to the project of solving 6bld and practicing 4bld and 5bld. And last but not least - Poland Nationals in 3 weeks.


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## h2f (Nov 19, 2016)

Selkie said:


> @mark49152 - I wasn't using pairs so yes, 3 targets per location. Perhaps I should invest the time in a pair system but might need to stick to something I know for Brum Open.



As Mark wrote - letter pairs is much better and efficient than a word per letter. I was using word per letter and very soon the memos became so boring - there's only 22 (or 21 if you use it for corners) letter/words. When you use letter pairs there's over 400 (I got 576) and you can arrange it in so many ways when creating images... There's no question letter pairs is much better technique.


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## earth2dan (Nov 20, 2016)

Sorry to break topic. I just took a few seconds off my 5x5 PB and happened to be filming. Woo!






Edit: I have to agree with the general consensus on the Thunderclap V2. I bought it day one and it's awful, don't buy it. The V1 is better in every way.


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## mark49152 (Nov 20, 2016)

Nice solves @earth2dan, I watched your 4x4 too.

@h2f, I have been trying to learn 6BLD obliques but just cannot get it right. Blind, they are just rescrambled. Sighted, they are also rescrambled and I can't see why. This will take a while


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## h2f (Nov 20, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> Nice solves @earth2dan, I watched your 4x4 too.
> 
> @h2f, I have been trying to learn 6BLD obliques but just cannot get it right. Blind, they are just rescrambled. Sighted, they are also rescrambled and I can't see why. This will take a while



I know I knew how to solve them with U2 method but now I cant figure it out. I think next weekend I'll do a try.  Now 4bld and 5bld.

I've made a vlog about you guys - just some words and I used a photo from UK Champs.






Edit: I've seen that Mark is cut on the miniphoto so I've rearranged it. Sorry Mark.


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## mark49152 (Nov 20, 2016)

h2f said:


> I know I knew how to solve them with U2 method but now I cant figure it out. I think next weekend I'll do a try.


Yeah I'm also using U2. I expect that where I'm screwing up is not alternating the inner and outer slices correctly, especially after rotating.

I wish I could understand your vlog.


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## h2f (Nov 20, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> I wish I could understand your vlog



 I wish I could translate it. Maybe I'll try but it needs time.


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## moralsh (Nov 20, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> Yeah I'm also using U2. I expect that where I'm screwing up is not alternating the inner and outer slices correctly, especially after rotating.
> 
> I wish I could understand your vlog.


Oh please, just use center comms  

My way of doing centers in every cube that has them is to set every case up to a commutator that has the swap on one of the E layers (d or u on 4BLD and so on) they are not optimal but they are very easy to figure them out. I'd say the average # of set up moves is around 1.5, best cases have none, worst cases have 3. 

Moving the buffer or using wide moves to keep interchangeability while moving targets on the U or D face help for lowering movecount.

With this method, you have 2 layers in which to do the swap on X centers, 3 on 4 centers and 4 with obliques, a lot of freedom to find an easy comm.


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## newtonbase (Nov 20, 2016)

moralsh said:


> Oh please, just use center comms
> 
> My way of doing centers in every cube that has them is to set every case up to a commutator that has the swap on one of the E layers (d or u on 4BLD and so on) they are not optimal but they are very easy to figure them out. I'd say the average # of set up moves is around 1.5, best cases have none, worst cases have 3.
> 
> ...


Centre comms did seem quite easy when I was looking into 4BLD. I'll do it by the end of 2017.


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## h2f (Nov 20, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> Centre comms did seem quite easy when I was looking into 4BLD. I'll do it by the end of 2017.



Mark, why not by the end of 2016. They are very easy. Just follow Ollie's tutorial. I've started using them when I was over 20 in 4bld.


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## newtonbase (Nov 20, 2016)

h2f said:


> Mark, why not by the end of 2016. They are very easy. Just follow Ollie's tutorial. I've started using them when I was over 20 in 4bld.


I haven't done 4BLD at all yet. My current project is corner comms for 3BLD. Once that's done then 4BLD is probably next.


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## Selkie (Nov 20, 2016)

@Lid - Thanks, I will gradually work my way through them. After that I want to tackle EP algs for simultaneous sides.

@mark49152 , @h2f - Sound advice, I think I will start on a letter pair system right away. Since the more graphic the better it might be quite fun doing it ;-)

@earth2dan - Nice single. Really like the camera angle too. You using a tripod there?

@h2f - Love the idea of the vlogs even if like Mark I cannot understand them. But a great format for content. Much better than most of mine that are simply my solves. Still, I will be doing an unboxing in the morning


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## mark49152 (Nov 20, 2016)

moralsh said:


> Oh please, just use center comms


Well, my approach to centres is the same as for M2, r2 and even corner comms. That is, choose a simple system that is reasonably move efficient, work on minimising thinking and pauses, then incrementally add to it; but do not add things faster than I can assimilate them without increasing pausing. Centre comms are not difficult, but they are not wildly more efficient than advanced U2. The latter is just setups to comms with U interchange rather than comms with E interchange, so similar in concept and move count.

For obliques, I can't even get a success with basic U2 so am not ready to think about comms yet


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## h2f (Nov 20, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> I haven't done 4BLD at all yet. My current project is corner comms for 3BLD. Once that's done then 4BLD is probably next.



Ach ok. I thought you are in 4bld too. I'm impressed of your progress in 3bld and that's why I thought so. 

@Selkie @mark49152 Thanks for kind words about rubiks vlog. My idea is just to connect speedcubing with other activites and make some kind of story in every part. I havent met such idea in other channels. And my chanel is slowly growing. I'll do translation soon.


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## One Wheel (Nov 20, 2016)

I really want to get into big blind, but I'm not really solid on 3BLD yet. Any suggestions on things to learn or proficiency that I should get to on 3BLD before I start looking seriously at big BLD?


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## Shaky Hands (Nov 20, 2016)

Selkie said:


> @Shaky Hands - Andy, getting more intrigued by the minute on opening my presents on Monday.



Current thoughts are that the Yuxin may be better at 3x3 stage. Centers and edge-pairing may be better on the Qiyi. Still experimenting and have retensioned the Qiyi yet again today. Need to get it to the stage where I can turn it more fluidly than I am currently. Will be interested in your thoughts on the puzzle and hope your first turns aren't as stiff as mine were.



Lid said:


> Not really, I think I took it by shape of one of the layers to begin with, other than that solves^3.
> Now I can do more or less how I like, doesn't have to be the same way each time.
> Start with everything that needs 2, 3 or 4 twists + the 7 one. And I don't use most the solutions on the page, just see it as a simple guide, do what feels best for you, everything depends on the starting state.
> The best is to understand what you can do with a certain shape, for most shapes there isn't a "best way".



That's some really useful SQ-1 info you have on your site. Only learned this earlier this month and only just coming up on 50 timed solves. My current PB is 1:50.30 but there's a lot of room for improvements I can make as I learn more. Will be using your site to help me no doubt!



earth2dan said:


> Sorry to break topic. I just took a few seconds off my 5x5 PB and happened to be filming. Woo!



Congratulations! I love 5x5. Still the puzzle I practice the most.



mark49152 said:


> I wish I could understand your vlog.



+1


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## pglewis (Nov 20, 2016)

I really should stop timing so much and go back to my slow solve regimen but I'm so close to that sub-30 single milestone and don't want to give up until I land one. I've had a likely one each of the past two days only to botch the last couple moves on a couple of the easiest algs for me (T and Jb); definitely let it get in my head knowing it was a good solve. Also did a CFOOOP solve for :34 and change. I just want _one_ and I'll go back to grinding lol.


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## earth2dan (Nov 21, 2016)

Selkie said:


> @earth2dan - Nice single. Really like the camera angle too. You using a tripod there?


Thanks. My tripod doesn't really work at the desk because it blocks me from getting in and out of my chair. So I came up with a funny set up that seems to be working out well. The lighting at my desk is awful, so I bought a clip on LED desk light for cubing, then I remembered I have a little gorilla pod tripod. So I wrapped it around the arm of the LED lamp and put my little Sony Action Cam on it. It looks funny, but it's out of the way and it works great. The best part is I can just leave it set up all the time and turn it on whenever I want to record solves. 



Spoiler: Camera setup












And yes, that's a new Mefferts Ghost Cube  Did some Christmas shopping today and one of the toy stores had a bunch of twisty puzzles. I caved and bought one. My first ghost cube.


Spoiler: Mefferts Ghost Cube


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## JohnnyReggae (Nov 21, 2016)

earth2dan said:


> And yes, that's a new Mefferts Ghost Cube  Did some Christmas shopping today and one of the toy stores had a bunch of twisty puzzles. I caved and bought one. My first ghost cube.


Ghost cubes are awesome. I have the cheaper version from Fancun. Took me a little while to get my head around it though, and it is now one of my favourites as it does require a little more thought.


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## moralsh (Nov 21, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> For obliques, I can't even get a success with basic U2 so am not ready to think about comms yet



I like your approach, but my post was triggered by the above sentence. I have no problems doing obliques sighted and have done them blindfolded ok a couple of times (never tried full 6BLD, though). At this point slow but able beats your current state 

Besides 4 interchange layers gives you a bit more freedom than one.


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## muchacho (Nov 21, 2016)

I've bought a Clock, I'll practice if I can make it turn "nice". At first it didn't even turn but now sometimes kind of does, so there is still hope.


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## mark49152 (Nov 21, 2016)

moralsh said:


> I like your approach, but my post was triggered by the above sentence. I have no problems doing obliques sighted and have done them blindfolded ok a couple of times (never tried full 6BLD, though). At this point slow but able beats your current state


That's a good point. Maybe comms would be easier, or at least, maybe using a different interchange might be easier, for obliques. I'll have a think about it.



moralsh said:


> Besides 4 interchange layers gives you a bit more freedom than one.


Understood, but in a way, this is exactly what I avoid. I like to have structure. Being a computer guy, I see execution kind of like a processor, executing a sequence of instructions created during memo. Each time I encounter a particular instruction, I always do exactly the same thing. The processor has no freedom; given a sequence of instructions, it always executes it the same way, and does not make free choices. The instruction set is also structured, as opposed to learning 376 solutions for 376 instructions. The instructions are grouped logically and within a group the method of execution is systematic and consistent, based on a simple fundamental operation modulated to different operands and perhaps optimised depending on adjacent instructions. Over time, as I observe that certain instructions are executed inefficiently, I adapt or extend the system, but only in ways that preserve the principle and determinism of the system.


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## Selkie (Nov 21, 2016)

@earth2dan - Nice camera setup, very inventive. I want to do something about the camera/setup of mine. I am sure people are sick and tired of seeing my washing machine since the study in our house doubles as a utility room.

Got some cubes from my lovely wife for my birthday today so did an unboxing. Warning its a 30 minute video so completely understand if people dot watch it. The cubes unboxed are:-

Moyu Weilong Square-1
Yuxin Blue Stickerless 4x4
Qiyi WuHua Stickerless 6x6

And apologies because much of the video is not in focus...


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## Logiqx (Nov 21, 2016)

I started to teach the office to cube at lunch time.

We are the proud owners of 12 Thunderclaps in the brand colours, substituting purple for orange.

I also did my first mosaic today... somewhat basic but it's a start.


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## moralsh (Nov 21, 2016)

Selkie said:


> Got some cubes from my lovely wife for my birthday today so did an unboxing. Warning its a 30 minute video so completely understand if people dot watch it. The cubes unboxed are:-



will try to watch part of the video later, but Happy birthday in the meantime 

Am I the only one who doesn't get cubes for birthday or christmas? I'm jealous


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## newtonbase (Nov 21, 2016)

moralsh said:


> Am I the only one who doesn't get cubes for birthday or christmas? I'm jealous



I asked for a 7x7 one Xmas and my wife said no so I got myself the SS Mini, wrapped it and put it under the tree. Of course my wife had gone and bought me the V-cube 7 so I had to hide the SS for a while. Now I just buy my own.


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## One Wheel (Nov 21, 2016)

moralsh said:


> Am I the only one who doesn't get cubes for birthday or christmas? I'm jealous



I got my first Rubik's cube as a birthday present a year and a half ago. Everything since then I've bought myself.


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## earth2dan (Nov 21, 2016)

Selkie said:


> @earth2dan - Nice camera setup, very inventive. I want to do something about the camera/setup of mine. I am sure people are sick and tired of seeing my washing machine since the study in our house doubles as a utility room.
> 
> Got some cubes from my lovely wife for my birthday today so did an unboxing. Warning its a 30 minute video so completely understand if people dot watch it. The cubes unboxed are:-
> 
> ...


Nice video. Seriously, you should be narrating BBC documentaries, I think you missed your calling 

I have the stickerless QiYi square-1 as well and all layers felt the same on mine out of the box. Yours might just need some set up. Granted, I don't know any square-1 algs to really push it. When I solve my square-1 it's 15 minutes of pairing and 3-cycles... and praying for no parity because the only way I can fix that is to tear it down, turn one layer, and resolve.

My initial experience with the Yuxin blue was pretty much the same. Though, I never spring swapped. Just lots of setup and break-in to make it great, and it is great.

I love my Yuxin 6x6's, both with and without the spring swap. I think I'll need some more convincing to consider investing in the new QiYi or MoYu. Granted, you're a solid minute faster than me so my thoughts on that might change if/when I get as fast as you.



Logiqx said:


> I started to teach the office to cube at lunch time.
> 
> We are the proud owners of 12 Thunderclaps in the brand colours, substituting purple for orange.
> 
> ...


That's great! Nobody in my office, family, or general vicinity has a shred of interest in cubing. I'm all alone around here.

I've never done a mosaic, but I did put a heart pattern in my 13x13 last valentines day. I put it on the table next to some flowers for the wife. She laughed and called me a nerd. She teases, but she wouldn't have it any other way 



moralsh said:


> will try to watch part of the video later, but Happy birthday in the meantime
> 
> Am I the only one who doesn't get cubes for birthday or christmas? I'm jealous



I don't get cubes as gifts from anyone but myself. Though last year my friends found a vintage book from 1981 called "The Ideal Solution". It's in mint condition and has nice cover art. I think it teaches an old corners first approach. That was a cool gift, better than buying me a cube.


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## Shaky Hands (Nov 21, 2016)

@Selkie, I watched all your vid this PM as I got no lunch break in its usual slot. Thanks for sharing your observations and whilst I wouldn't say I'm glad that I'm not the only person to have a few reservations re: the Qiyi 6x6, I can at least sympathise.

I have done some 6x6 comparison of Yuxin vs Qiyi. Just an Ao5 of each so not something that statistics geeks will give a high confidence rating for but I'll share it anyway:

Yuxin 6x6 Ao5: 5:47.81
(06:35.76,) 05:49.76, (05:34.89,) 05:34.96, 05:58.72

Qiyi 6x6 Ao5: 5:31.67
05:41.70, 05:31.30, (06:18.92,) 05:22.00, (05:13.87)

The final solve there is just about a PB single by an "enormous" 0.12 seconds. All 10 solves would be competition PB singles for me, which gives me hope for Birmingham if I can avoid messing up.

So I think I'm getting the Qiyi to the correct tensions for my turning. It hasn't been a fun process getting it there though. It's been pretty blinkin' awkward. Besides, people with literal shaky hands don't like fixing pops.


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## mark49152 (Nov 21, 2016)

Andy you're getting pretty quick there with the 6x6!


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## mafergut (Nov 21, 2016)

@earth2dan, that Mefferts ghost! It's the one they didn't have in stock in the brick & mortar store I told you about some days ago. I'm waiting for them to restock it and it will be mine 

Also very nice camera setup  The resulting camera angle is great and so was your 5x5 solve.


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## earth2dan (Nov 21, 2016)

Wow! I placed my most recent cube order at the Canadian cube store Cubing Out Loud Last Wednesday evening and it just arrived. That's gotta be some kind of shipping record for me. Prices are competitive with other North American stores so I'll definitely order from these guys again. This is also the store affiliated with Canadian Cubing, Canada's official speedcubing organization.

I had planned on filming an unboxing when it arrived... but I don't think that's gonna happen now. I can't wait! . This order has the Valk3, MoYu WeiChuang GTS 5x5, and QiYi WuShuang 5x5. All of which I'm really excited for.

I'll try and film some solves and post my first impressions later tonight.

Edit:
Oh my, the Valk 3 is a main contender right out of the box. Great stickerless shades too. It's just a little too clicky to speedsolve here at the office right now. That might change with some lube/setup. It has a very light and airy feel to it. I like it a lot.


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## pglewis (Nov 21, 2016)

@Selkie: Happy b-day, Chris! You're a great sport leaving the new toys wrapped until today


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## mark49152 (Nov 22, 2016)

Happy birthday Chris. I did watch almost 20 mins of your video


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## Selkie (Nov 22, 2016)

@Logiqx - Very nice spreading the cube love at work 

@moralsh , @pglewis , @mark49152 - Thank you for the birthday wishes and thanks to others for you for the wishes on Facebook, much appreciated 

@earth2dan - I may persevere with the Square-1 but for the fact it is on black but I have ordered soem more cubes with birthday money and that includes another Qiyi Stickerless Square-1 which I hope will be better than my current one.

@Shaky Hands - About to throw another spanner in the 6x6 debate having just ordered the Weishi although admittedly on Black. Hopefully the order will be here for an unboxing again this week.Going to try a few more solves today on the WuHua but the biggest issue for me currently is the size, not the turning.

The puzzles I ordered are:-

*Moyu Weipo 2x2x2* 
(Color: Stickerless / Coloured plastic) 

*Moyu WeiShi GTS 6x6x6* 
(Color: Black Body) 

*QiYi / Mo Fang Ge Square-1 speedcube* 
(Color: Stickerless / Coloured plastic) 

*QiYi Galaxy Megaminx 'Luxurious Suit' kit* 

*QiYi Sail 3x3 68mm* 

*Qiyi X-Man Tornado 3x3* 
(Color: Stickerless / Coloured plastic) 

*ThePuzzleStore.UK Speedlube Ultimate combo + Maru*


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## Shaky Hands (Nov 22, 2016)

Selkie said:


> @Shaky Hands - About to throw another spanner in the 6x6 debate having just ordered the Weishi although admittedly on Black. Hopefully the order will be here for an unboxing again this week.Going to try a few more solves today on the WuHua but the biggest issue for me currently is the size, not the turning.



Is the Weishi different to this one? As I was under the impression from this that a stickerless one would be available.






I agree with you that I prefer the Yuxin's size, which is why I went to that after using the Moyu Aoshi. Not sure exactly how I went from not being able to solve a 3x3 18 months ago to now owning 4 different 6x6's and thinking about yet another!


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## Selkie (Nov 22, 2016)

Same puzzle @Shaky Hands Andy it is just Marty does not have the stickerless in stock currently.


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## Shaky Hands (Nov 22, 2016)

Cheers @Selkie, will wait for your review with bated breath!


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## mafergut (Nov 22, 2016)

What's the issue with the size of the WuHua? I thought it was basically the same size than the Yuxin 6x6 and a tad smaller than the Aoshi?


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## Shaky Hands (Nov 22, 2016)

Yuxin is quite a bit smaller. Here's my 4 different 6x6's side-by-side:







Left-to-right: Shengshou, Moyu Aoshi, Qiyi, Yuxin

I would say the Moyu is the largest, then Shengshou, then Qiyi then Yuxin.


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## mafergut (Nov 22, 2016)

Shaky Hands said:


> Left-to-right: Shengshou, Moyu Aoshi, Qiyi, Yuxin
> I would say the Moyu is the largest, then Shengshou, then Qiyi then Yuxin.



Nice collection! But, then again, it is almost the same size (a tiny bit smaller) than the Aoshi. So it's strange the comment by Chris @Selkie about the problem with the size as he was used to the Aoshi.


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## Shaky Hands (Nov 22, 2016)

@mafergut Ah, I see what you mean. Perhaps Chris can clarify.

I did do a solve on the Aoshi last night. Found it rather bulky and unwieldy although it's got no lube in it at the moment and I had to readjust from red to pink, so perhaps it's not a fair comparison.

I think the trouble is that with larger puzzles, minimal size differences can feel quite apparent during solves.


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## earth2dan (Nov 22, 2016)

Shaky Hands said:


> Cheers @Selkie, will wait for your review with bated breath!


Ditto. I'll buy just about every new 5x5 that comes out, but I'm not into 6x6 enough yet to be a guinea pig. Especially when I'm still quite happy with my Yuxin. My ShengShou is a paperweight, and my AoShi is a desk ornament 

@Selkie I was really close to ordering that Galaxy Luxurious kit too! but I opted to save a few bucks and get the sculpted one as recommended. Looking forward to your thoughts on the other Galaxy configurations.


I got home late last night and tried to film some solves and comments on the Valk 3 and new QiYi / MoYu 5x5's, but after watching a few minutes of the video I decided to scrap it. Note to self: Don't try to record videos that require talking and coherent thought when it's super late and you're super tired...

Long story short:
- The Valk 3 is awesome, but too fast for me out of the box. I'll need to slow it down with some lube to make it more controllable. It's a definite main contender.
- The MoYu WeiChuang GTS feels surprisingly more similar to the Yuxin 5x5 than it does to it's predecessor, the BoChuang. In fact, it feels nothing at all like the BoChuang. It has that same kind of bubbly smooth feeling as the Yuxin 5x5. I think I need to tighten it up a bit, as I was experiencing some catching and too much flex. It is a wobbly cube and I hope that it's more stable with tighter tensions. Stickerless shades are the same as MoYu BoChuang.
- The QiYi WuShuang is unique among all my 5x5's. If I had to compare, I'd say it's most similar to the MoYu BoChuang. It has a compact design with sharp clean edges. It is the smallest of the premium 5x5's and I really like the smaller profile. In the hand it feels like this is the 5x5 that should accompany the Yuxin 6x6. I experienced some catching at the 3x3 stage, but I'm sure that was more me than the cube. Mine is also quite dry out of the box, it doesn't feel like it got much, if any, lube at the factory. Stickerless shades are the same as Valk 3 and other QiYi cubes.

I think 5x5's have finally reached the same state 3x3's have been at for a while. We have several premium options that are all great, but feel very different. Between the MoYu BoChuang, MoYu WeiChuang, Yuxin, and QiYi WuShuang, I can't say any one is definitively the best. They're all very very good and it's going to come down to personal preference.

For me right now the MoYu's are the best performers. Though I feel like, with a little work, the QiYi could become my favourite 5x5.


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## mafergut (Nov 22, 2016)

Shaky Hands said:


> @mafergut Ah, I see what you mean. Perhaps Chris can clarify.
> 
> I did do a solve on the Aoshi last night. Found it rather bulky and unwieldy although it's got no lube in it at the moment and I had to readjust from red to pink, so perhaps it's not a fair comparison.
> 
> I think the trouble is that with larger puzzles, minimal size differences can feel quite apparent during solves.


Yeah, I'm sure size can make a difference. I just couldn't go back from 60mm to 62mm 4x4s once I tried the G4. Regarding bigger cubes all my 5x5s are basically the same size (but I would like to have the Shengshou 5x5 Mini LingLong just for fun) and I only have one 6x6 (Yuxin) so I can't compare. Also, I'm so slow at 6x6 that I don't think size would make any difference for me at this (lack of) skill level.


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## earth2dan (Nov 22, 2016)

mafergut said:


> (but I would like to have the Shengshou 5x5 Mini LingLong just for fun)


I have the ShengShou 5x5 mini and I love it. It performs surprisingly well, given that it's basically a novelty item. For $10, I can recommend it to anyone.


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## Selkie (Nov 22, 2016)

@Shaky Hands , @mafergut - Of course, happy to clarify though moment by moment my own assessments are changing. I do like the size of the Yuxin, it is only 1mm but to me makes all the difference and although I do have sub 4:00 means on teh Moyu I have not felt completely happy with the size, weight and lack of flex or forgiveness of inaccurate turning. That said I have been doing a few solves on the Qiyi WuHua and got only my second sub 3:40 solve. It appears to be breaking in nicely. So nicely in fact that its lovely feeling layers are almost a payoff for its size. Watch this space but don't be surprised to see wither the Yuxin or Qiyi in my hands for the comp in Birmingham. It will be a close call.

@earth2dan I can completely agree about there being no clear winner in 5x5 at the moment. At UKC this month it was a close call between the Yuxin and the Qiyi (I ended up solving on the Yuxin and Andy used my Qiyi ) however in the last week the Bochuang has come back into favour for me where it went out of favour a few months ago where I felt it had slowed down. I only have a weichuang on black so did not persevere with it though I was not blown away by it. Another case of uncertainty of what I will use in comp next month. Also really liked our round up of your new puzzles. 

I have been sent some Qiyi M-Lube by Marty. It looks like a lower viscosity shock oil. I have ordered all Marty's lubes so will do a comparison of lubes in a video soon when I get the order.


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## teacher77 (Nov 22, 2016)

I know I don't write as often as before but it's the end of the term here and my students are not letting me much free time.

I just wanted to mention that I broke my PB single by a whole 0.9 s, now down at 20.67 sec ! Sub-20 PBs, here I come !

For those interested, here's the lattest iteration of my progress graph. Pink dots are the best single of the day and blue dots are the best average of the day (for 10+ series). These days, they're pretty much my ONLY average of the day, since I'm busy. As you can see, sub-30 Ao10's are still becoming "normal" these days


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## Shaky Hands (Nov 22, 2016)

@teacher77 - nice progress. You might want to take part in the Race to Sub-30 at some point too. I found that a nice landmark point for me.


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## newtonbase (Nov 22, 2016)

Shaky Hands said:


> @teacher77 - nice progress. You might want to take part in the Race to Sub-30 at some point too. I found that a nice landmark point for me.


I've started that 3 times so far. Never get time to keep it up.


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## kbrune (Nov 22, 2016)

earth2dan said:


> Long story short:
> - The Valk 3 is awesome, but too fast for me out of the box. I'll need to slow it down with some lube to make it more controllable.



I never knew about this until recently. My 6x6 (don't know brand) was great out of the box but has since slowed down. I assumed the lube had dried out. When I applied the only lube I have (silicone based) I didn't speed it up. It actually felt smoother but just as difficult to turn as before I lubed it.

What type of lube would speed up or slow down a cube? I recently bought maru but haven't used it on anything yet.


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## pglewis (Nov 22, 2016)

Logiqx said:


> Oooh. I've just found a really sick F2L trick whilst playing around...
> 
> *r U2 r' F2 *- execute everything right handed
> 
> ...



Since I've been back to daily speedsolves for a several days rather than slow solve theory I may incorporate this for the case from the front. I still like the slice moves when rotated 90 degrees since I have a usable S slice from using it for my U-perms for ages (those will probably change to the M slice versions eventually). Not incredibly grip friendly but I think the low move count makes up for it, beating out a rotation in my speedsolves. Relatively quick solutions for three orientations now.


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## earth2dan (Nov 22, 2016)

kbrune said:


> I never knew about this until recently. My 6x6 (don't know brand) was great out of the box but has since slowed down. I assumed the lube had dried out. When I applied the only lube I have (silicone based) I didn't speed it up. It actually felt smoother but just as difficult to turn as before I lubed it.
> 
> What type of lube would speed up or slow down a cube? I recently bought maru but haven't used it on anything yet.


Oh there's a science to this, and I've far from mastered it.

Maru and similar lubes are a great temporary speed boost, but it dries up quick. It can help to work in a few drops in your big cubes just before an average.

For more long term effects you want to use a silicone lubricant like traxxas, or any of the lubes sold in syringes at most cube stores. Higher viscosity (weight) means thicker lube. That'll slow your puzzle down and make it gummy if you use too much. This is good for slowing down a crazy fast cube, or eliminating spring noise in hardware. Lower viscosity will be more runny and in theory speed things up. I follow the tried, tested, and true philosophy of applying heavier lube in the core, and lighter lube on the pieces. Though, there really is a science to this and you can experiment so much with different lubes, and amounts of lube.

For your 6x6, if it's really slowing down my best recommendation (and it's no fun) is to tear it down, clean all the pieces, and then reassemble it lubing with low viscosity (weight 1-3) along the way. Then use Maru, or Cubicle Silk or something like that to maintain it.


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## mark49152 (Nov 22, 2016)

For bigger puzzles you might want to try silicone shock oil rather than differential oil. It is much runnier.


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## h2f (Nov 22, 2016)

Any advice about 4x4 hardware? I need to buy one - my 3 years old AoSu becomes crap.


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## pipkiksass (Nov 22, 2016)

h2f said:


> Any advice about 4x4 hardware? I need to buy one - my 3 years old AoSu becomes crap.



Replaced mine with a Yuxin Blue and absolutely no regrets. Springs are very hard, so I replaced them with some from a Fangshi ShuangRen v1, which are much softer and speeds it up a bit.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## pglewis (Nov 22, 2016)

h2f said:


> Any advice about 4x4 hardware? I need to buy one - my 3 years old AoSu becomes crap.



Still a G4 fan but there's _so_ much praise for the Yuxin Blue that I haven't given up hope it might suddenly transform into magic if I ever get around to tweaking it. 

I have a WuQue on pre-order from the Cubicle, but they're only in the 62mm size so far. Hoping it feels as nice for me as the 5x5 but also hoping they come out with a smaller size soon.


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## Logiqx (Nov 22, 2016)

earth2dan said:


> That's great! Nobody in my office, family, or general vicinity has a shred of interest in cubing. I'm all alone around here.





Selkie said:


> @Logiqx - Very nice spreading the cube love at work



Cross and F2L complete.

Everyone is enjoying this activity but productivity might suffer with so many cubes scattered around the office. 



pglewis said:


> Since I've been back to daily speedsolves for a several days rather than slow solve theory I may incorporate this for the case from the front. I still like the slice moves when rotated 90 degrees since I have a usable S slice from using it for my U-perms for ages (those will probably change to the M slice versions eventually). Not incredibly grip friendly but I think the low move count makes up for it, beating out a rotation in my speedsolves. Relatively quick solutions for three orientations now.



I may have misinterpreted but if you're doing this case rotated 90 degrees you should use the 2-gen solution - *R U R2' U' R / R' U' R2 U R' *or the equivalents on the left.


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## h2f (Nov 22, 2016)

pipkiksass said:


> Replaced mine with a Yuxin Blue and absolutely no regrets. Springs are very hard, so I replaced them with some from a Fangshi ShuangRen v1, which are much softer and speeds it up a bit.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk





pglewis said:


> Still a G4 fan but there's _so_ much praise for the Yuxin Blue that I haven't given up hope it might suddenly transform into magic if I ever get around to tweaking it.
> 
> I have a WuQue on pre-order from the Cubicle, but they're only in the 62mm size so far. Hoping it feels as nice for me as the 5x5 but also hoping they come out with a smaller size soon.



Looks like yuxin Blue is on fire. I must mention it must be stable and the inner slicese must turn well. I need it to 4bld.


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## pglewis (Nov 22, 2016)

Logiqx said:


> I may have misinterpreted but if you're doing this case rotated 90 degrees you should use the 2-gen solution - *R U R2' U' R / R' U' R2 U R' *or the equivalents on the left.



*S R2 S'* and the mirror can be quite quick IMO.


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## earth2dan (Nov 22, 2016)

h2f said:


> Any advice about 4x4 hardware? I need to buy one - my 3 years old AoSu becomes crap.


If you want a great low maintenance 4x4 that just needs to be broken in. Definitely the Cyclone Boys G4. Don't be discouraged when you first get it, it's crap out of the box. The G4 really needs a good 20+ solve break in to start shining.

If you like fussing with lube and adjusting tensions, the Yuxin Blue 4x4 is wonderful after you get it set up nicely. I prefer a nicely set up Yuxin Blue to a broken in G4, but it is a pain to set up and it's not really THAT much better.



h2f said:


> Looks like yuxin Blue is on fire. I must mention it must be stable and the inner slicese must turn well. I need it to 4bld.


The G4 inner slices catch really badly at first. I thought mine was broken or assembled incorrectly. It really needs to be broken in. The catching goes away and the cube is stable and all layers turn nicely now.

If you're blind solving with a Yuxin Blue, I recommend the spring swap or tighter tensions with the original springs. The Yuxin tends to pop internals on loose tensions. You can survive a little pop on a sighted solve, but that would be devastating during a blind solve.


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## Selkie (Nov 22, 2016)

@earth2dan - I already have the sculptured Galaxy megaminx and wanted to try the plain. With the lux kit I can try a plain but also the others and still have a spare and spare caps. Win all round 

@teacher77 - Nice progress indeed. Go go sub 20 

@h2f and 4x4 talk. I have used a Cyclone Boys G4 Stickerless for the best part of 9 months though my order yesterday included a Yuxin Blue 4x4. I have already done the spring swap with a Thunderclap v1 and outlook is really good. Not up to the performance of my G4 but maybe after another 100 solves. Will try and do a review video on Thursday.


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## Logiqx (Nov 22, 2016)

pglewis said:


> *S R2 S'* and the mirror can be quite quick IMO.



I've just timed myself on a stackmat doing *R U R2' U' R *and it's inverse which were sub-0.4s.

*S R2 S' took *me 1.0s including the required re-grip before and after the alg. The re-grips alone take me ~0.3s.

2-gen without re-grips ftw.


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## newtonbase (Nov 22, 2016)

Just used a corner comm in a 3BLD solve. Get me! 

(WB - R2 D R2 D' R2 U R2 D R2 D' R2 U')


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## pglewis (Nov 22, 2016)

Landed new PRs today for single (31.892), mo3 (35.868), and ao5 (38.207). Yesterday was another good milestone with half my times in an ao12 under 40, rather than just 3 or 4. And you've probably never seen anyone grumpier under the circumstances lol. All I want is that one in the 20s, all the other milestones I'd hoped to see for this round have arrived. It wouldn't even take a skip to get there now, just a decent cross, good F2L, and not botching the LL.

I'm likely nearing the potential of all the F2L work I've done to this point, definitely nearly time to get back to combing my cases. I'm probably only about half done with my F2L scrutiny. Also need some exercise to find where to split pairs quickly. That's been a weird emerging problem for me that edge orientation alone doesn't seem to help me with. Definitely a common culprit for times that end up in the mid-40s or worse because I get stuck and have to engage the brain.


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## mark49152 (Nov 22, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> Just used a corner comm in a 3BLD solve. Get me!
> 
> (WB - R2 D R2 D' R2 U R2 D R2 D' R2 U')


And you didn't start with an easy one either 

I'm also in the market for a 4x4. I am still an Aosu man but it feels a bit dated and is still a little catchy even after 1000s of solves. I didn't like the G4, don't want <62mm, and can't be bothered with spring swaps, so am holding out for the WuQue (which I like to think is pronounced "wookie").


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## newtonbase (Nov 23, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> And you didn't start with an easy one either


Ha ha. No, it's a bit of a funny one and quite long, but the rules for it make sense and it flows quite nicely. 
I managed a corners only solve too but it was only 5 targets plus a twist. I have a long way to go.


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## Logiqx (Nov 23, 2016)

OLL complete. Final push tomorrow to get the guys through PLL.

The world will have another six cubers aged from early 20's to mid 40's. 

I'll task the guys with teaching the team members who were on holiday this week.

I'm going for the pyramid marketing approach. 

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk


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## pglewis (Nov 23, 2016)

@Logiqx: proselytizing! Bring 'em aboard . Also, I was curious when you time algs on the Stackmat if you start with the cube already in your hand. Seems the fair way to time algs, and also I know from a week or so ago that I'm lucky to execute a single *U* turn in .4 with the cube starting on the mat. 2x2 times amaze me


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## h2f (Nov 23, 2016)

Logiqx said:


> The world will have another six cubers aged from early 20's to mid 40's.



A friend of mine (age 38) ask me to teach him cubing when he saw me solving. I'm giving a cube him tomorrow. 

Today I did ao100 with yellow crosses mostly (I think 70%). I got sub-20 ao100 with a lot of nice singles with yellow on bottom. Very promising.


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## Logiqx (Nov 23, 2016)

pglewis said:


> @Logiqx: proselytizing! Bring 'em aboard . Also, I was curious when you time algs on the Stackmat if you start with the cube already in your hand. Seems the fair way to time algs, and also I know from a week or so ago that I'm lucky to execute a single *U* turn in .4 with the cube starting on the mat. 2x2 times amaze me


When timing algs, I start and stop with my hands holding the cube. I uploaded a decent E-perm a while ago (1.22s) which shows how I start / stop the timer. The stackmat time is a bit higher (1.26) because I am careful not to stop it early.






Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk


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## muchacho (Nov 23, 2016)

I've done 3 Clock timed solved (best 1:13), then I've gone to see the over-40 times to see what times would be respectable, and I realize top 4 averages are from Spaniards, it would be funny if I could make it to the top-5


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## pglewis (Nov 23, 2016)

Logiqx said:


> When timing algs, I start and stop with my hands holding the cube. I uploaded a decent E-perm a while ago (1.22s) which shows how I start / stop the timer. The stackmat time is a bit higher (1.26) because I am careful not to stop it early.



Nice, this is why y'all are my heroes! Also makes me feel a little better . I was timing my V-perm last night and can just barely sub-3. I was surprised that my old, well worn AoLong V2 seemed to be the fastest for me on that one, too bad it's not good for M slices and does corner twist from time to time. The Gans Air has also seemed quick for algs for me lately. I've either lucked into a sweet spot on the tensions or my turning style is changing as I get faster. 

Not really worried about TPS, my TPS should be plenty good for my sub 20 goal and I know it'll be much faster in a year or two just naturally. But a man with a timer can't help it...


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## newtonbase (Nov 23, 2016)

Logiqx said:


> OLL complete. Final push tomorrow to get the guys through PLL.
> 
> The world will have another six cubers aged from early 20's to mid 40's.
> 
> ...


You'll conquer the world this way. Eventually.


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## Logiqx (Nov 23, 2016)

Showing people how to finger trick today got me wondering how fast I can execute Sune / Anti-Sune.

Answer: Generally 0.60s on the stackmat but I get an occasional 0.56s

Can anyone in the over-40 club get sub-0.5s? 

Edit 1: A few 0.52 and 0.54 times. So close...

Edit 2: 0.50s... I'm giving up for now!


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## muchacho (Nov 23, 2016)

0.89 anti-sune... I'm giving up until 2018


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## pglewis (Nov 23, 2016)

Logiqx said:


> Showing people how to finger trick today got me wondering how fast I can execute Sune / Anti-Sune.
> 
> Answer: Generally 0.60s on the stackmat but I get an occasional 0.56s
> 
> ...



1.5 - 1.6 for Sune with a lone 1.4 mixed-in. (Gans Air and Valk)

Edit: multiple 1.4s with the AoLong V2, same with my Thunderclap with a lone 1.3


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## sqAree (Nov 23, 2016)

Logiqx said:


> Showing people how to finger trick today got me wondering how fast I can execute Sune / Anti-Sune.
> 
> Answer: Generally 0.60s on the stackmat but I get an occasional 0.56s
> 
> ...



I still have a long way to go to be over-40, I just want to say your times are really impressive. On stackmat I can do a sune in 0.86 and an anti-sune in 0.78, but those are my best times (on csTimer I got a 0.49 sune though). Good job!


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## Shaky Hands (Nov 23, 2016)

The Sune chat reminds me of this video of Breandan:


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## newtonbase (Nov 23, 2016)

Managed a 1.28s but lots of DNFs, +2s and timer misses. I really do have slow fingers.


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## Shaky Hands (Nov 23, 2016)

25 attempts - best I got was 1.01. Mean (excluding the DNF) of 1.49.

1.41, 2.07, 1.18, 1.58, 1.37, 1.75, 1.83, 1.39, 1.17, 2.92, 1.14, 1.01, 1.16, 1.16, 2.68, 1.81, 1.43, 1.87, 1.09, 1.12, 1.13, DNF, 1.07, 1.08, 1.57


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## pipkiksass (Nov 23, 2016)

15 attempts, best was 1.14, mean was 1.35. 

I've never timed algs, but might look to optimise some of mine in light of this discovery. If my best OLL is maybe 1.5 in a solve, then I doubt I ever get a sub-4 last layer. I know with decent lookahead I can come out of F2L around 10 seconds fairly regularly, but I know my PLLs vary massively in time, from sub-2 to well sup-4, or even 5ish. 

I often feel that I'm on a decent solve at F2L, nail an easy OLL, then still end up around 20 seconds, so maybe it's time to drill PLLs? (mentally adds this to the ever increasing to-do list, along with BLD cross, which I still can't do 50% of the time; learning OLL; practicing lookahead; slow turning...)

In other (not) exciting news, I got a 16.604 single 3x3 on 4x4 today. Lookahead is SO much easier on 4x4, when you can't quite turn as fast - I'm considering using 3x3 on 4x4 for lookahead training for 3x3 in general. Has anyone tried this?

I'm currently on 6 months' sick leave, and wondering how those of you with jobs manage to find time to be so good at so many puzzles?! When I go back to work in February I'll definitely miss all the cubing time I currently have (and probably wish I had devoted more to learning OLL and focussed practice!).


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## mark49152 (Nov 24, 2016)

Does anyone know this guy? He's a cuber in his 40s and apparently he was at UKC 2015 and 2016, and Euros, but I don't think he competed because I can't find a WCA ID for him.

http://speedcubing-for-olds.blogspot.co.uk


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## efattah (Nov 24, 2016)

I tried the Sune challenge. Average 0.72 - 0.78 with the fastest at 0.68.


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## CLL Smooth (Nov 24, 2016)

Too much too Sune


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## h2f (Nov 24, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> Does anyone know this guy? He's a cuber in his 40s and apparently he was at UKC 2015 and 2016, and Euros, but I don't think he competed because I can't find a WCA ID for him.
> 
> http://speedcubing-for-olds.blogspot.co.uk



Strange - If he was, why he wasnt competing? Maybe it's a alias of his real name?


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## Shaky Hands (Nov 24, 2016)

@mark49152, spoke to a couple of older cubers at UKC2016 that aren't on this thread. Not sure I caught their names though. At least one of them I recognised from my brief appearance at UKC2015 too.


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## Logiqx (Nov 24, 2016)

Shaky Hands said:


> The Sune chat reminds me of this video of Breandan:



Aw... now I feel sad at how slow I am at Sune / Anti-Sune. 

Oddly enough, I don't seem to be any faster at either of them when I've always assumed that my anti-Sune was fastest.

One handed is a different matter entirely. Without timing, I know my RFAS + RBS are faster than RFS + RBAS.



mark49152 said:


> Does anyone know this guy? He's a cuber in his 40s and apparently he was at UKC 2015 and 2016, and Euros, but I don't think he competed because I can't find a WCA ID for him.
> 
> http://speedcubing-for-olds.blogspot.co.uk



I spoke to a guy who was competing and had a son competing as well. I didn't ask his name but I think he may have been Ian Gerleman.

https://www.worldcubeassociation.org/results/p.php?i=2015GERL02

I'm sure we must have all seen speedcubing-for-olds and come to think about it, I may have been standing next to him and chatted during the Q+A at UKC 2015. He fits the description of an older cuber who didn't actually compete.

Edit: Maybe someone should make contact via his blog and suggest he joins this thread.


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## Shaky Hands (Nov 24, 2016)

@Logiqx - Ian wasn't at UKC this year. Maybe you're recalling the Guildford comp?

One of the people I'm thinking this might be did indeed ask a question at the Q&A last year. I think it was the one about reaching cubing plateaus.


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## mark49152 (Nov 24, 2016)

I think I know who it is but won't say his name in case he wants his blog to stay anonymous (it's not Ian G). I talked with him briefly at North London. His son competes, but he himself only competes at comps that aren't oversubscribed because he doesn't like to take places from the kids.


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## mafergut (Nov 24, 2016)

My best Sune was 0.61. Many 0.8x and 0.9x up to 1.2x if I don't completely fail it, of course. Average around 0.85-0.95. With keyboard.


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## pipkiksass (Nov 24, 2016)

So I did lots of 3x3 today (no new OLLs, but I'm GOING to do some tonight...), and had a massive run of 16s and 17s - Ao12 was sub-18 for about 30 solves, which was great. I thought "why not try to get some PBs", but single Ao5 and Ao12 are 2 years old and won't come easy. I did, however, set PBs for Ao100, and 1000, and feel that (once warmed up) I'm now definitely sub-20. I may not be faster than I used to be, but I'm definitely more consistent.

I can see how the young kids who have countless hours to practice get fast so quick. When I first started cubing it took me a LONG time to get from sup-21 to sub-19; this time, with a great deal more time on my hands, it's only taken 7 weeks. 

Ao1000 - 19:90 (N.B. this running average has been going for over a month, some of the solves are very old)
Ao100 - 18.89
Ao50 - 18.26 (17.92 is PB, from 2014)

The Ao50 only had 10 sup-20 solves in it, a couple of 14s, oddly no 15s, 13x16s, 13x17s, 4x18s, 8x19s. No PLL skips, one OLL skip, which I didn't take great advantage of (17.xy). Most of the 20s were fails at new(ish) OLLs, or just general fails of some description!



Spoiler: Ao50 18.26



Generated By csTimer on 2016-11-24
avg of 50: 18.26

Time List:
1. 16.86 F B2 D' R2 B2 D2 B2 U' B2 R2 U2 B L R B' D R B L2 B 
2. 19.06 L U2 L2 B2 D2 F R2 U2 L2 U2 B D' F D2 L' U F2 L2 F2 L 
3. (14.85) D2 F' D2 B2 F' R2 F D2 U2 F' D2 U' L D' F' D2 L' U' R U B' 
4. 16.82 L2 D2 F2 R2 U2 R2 D R2 U R2 U' R' F' D' B D' L' B2 D2 B2 L' 
5. 19.62 B' U2 F2 U2 B2 U' L2 D2 U F R2 B2 F' U L' D L' D 
6. (25.13) D R2 B2 F2 D2 R F2 D2 R B2 L' B' U2 L2 F' U R' B U 
7. (14.64) D L2 F2 U2 R2 B2 U L2 U B2 U' L D' L2 B F' L U F D U2 
8. 20.51 U R2 F2 D' L2 U F2 R2 F2 L' D' B R D2 L' D B' R D' 
9. 19.87 B2 L2 U2 L2 D2 B2 U' L2 F2 D' F2 L B2 F' D2 L F' D2 U2 R2 B 
10. 19.68 D2 L U2 L D2 L2 F2 L' D2 B' L2 F' L D2 B2 R B2 L U' 
11. 21.53 L2 B' U2 B' L2 U2 B R2 D2 B2 D F' R' D U' L D' F L2 B 
12. 17.39 U2 B2 D2 R' U2 R' D2 L2 F2 L' F D R2 F' D L F2 L D' 
13. 19.47 B D2 R2 D2 L2 U2 B L2 R2 U2 F' D' R2 B' U' F' D' U' R U' B2 
14. 16.84 B' R2 U2 B2 R2 D2 R' U2 R2 U2 R' U2 F' D R' F' L' R2 F R2 U' 
15. 16.60 D R' U' F U' D B' D2 R F2 L2 D2 L2 U R2 U' B2 R2 D2 R2 L' 
16. 20.99 U2 R2 D L2 B2 D' R2 D R2 U B2 F D2 U B2 F2 R D2 F' L2 U' 
17. 19.45 B' R L2 F' L' B' D R' B' U2 R F2 R F2 R2 D2 R' B2 R 
18. (16.09) F' L2 B2 R2 D F2 U' L2 B2 U' F2 L2 F R2 B' L' B' D L2 U2 
19. 18.39 F2 R' L D R' F D' L D R2 F2 R' F2 R2 U2 R' F2 D2 R' B2 
20. 19.44 D' B2 U2 L2 U' L2 B2 U2 F2 D F2 B U' L' F2 D2 L B2 F' D' L' 
21. 17.27 D' F2 D B2 F2 L2 U F2 L2 D B2 R' U' F2 D' R' D L' U2 B R 
22. 17.75 B2 D2 R2 D' R2 B2 U2 B2 U L2 F2 B D L' U F2 L2 B L' F U2 
23. 16.72 R B2 F2 U2 F2 L2 D B2 L2 U B2 U R F2 R' B R' U2 F2 D' U' 
24. 16.44 U' F' D2 B2 R2 F' D2 U2 R2 B' U2 B2 L' U F D L U' L2 R' U2 
25. 17.77 B R D' L2 F R2 B' F2 R' D2 R' U2 B2 L F2 R' B2 L' D 
26. 17.88 B2 R2 D2 L2 B U2 B D2 U2 R2 F' D' U R2 F' L D2 U2 F2 L D' 
27. 16.54 B U2 B2 U2 L2 B L2 F R2 B' D2 R U B2 U' F' R2 B2 L D U2 
28. 18.97 L2 D2 B R2 F2 D2 U2 R2 F2 D2 B' L' U' R' D F2 R2 B D R B2 
29. 17.92 L' D' B2 L2 B2 R2 U' B2 D2 R2 F2 B' R U2 F2 R2 U L R' U 
30. 20.42 U B2 L2 D L2 D' B2 F2 D2 L2 B2 R' D R2 D2 B L' R2 U2 R' B 
31. 17.51 L2 U2 L' D2 F2 D2 B2 L' F2 R F2 U' R' F L2 U' B2 F' D' U B' 
32. 16.34 F' D2 F2 D' L2 D2 F' B2 R F2 B2 R2 U F2 D L2 D R2 B2 L2 
33. 17.99 D L2 F2 U R2 B2 U' F2 D U F2 B' D L' F L U2 B D' R U2 
34. 16.22 F2 U2 R F2 L2 U2 F2 L D2 U2 R' U' B R D' B2 F L2 D2 U 
35. 16.89 D U2 R2 B2 R2 F2 R2 D2 F2 R2 U2 B U R2 D' B' F2 R' D' R F 
36. (23.12) F2 U2 L2 U' L2 F2 U F2 U2 L2 U' L U B2 L R2 B' R F' R2 D2 
37. 19.89 R2 U2 B2 L' U2 F2 L' F2 L' R' D L' F' D' F U' L R2 U F' 
38. 17.92 L' D B2 D' F2 R2 B2 D2 F2 D' U' F' R U2 B' L2 F2 R U B' 
39. 20.63 U' B2 L2 D L2 R2 U B2 U L2 B R F2 U2 L B U' L' B2 U' B 
40. 18.37 B' L2 B2 L' F2 U2 R F2 L2 B2 R' F2 D U R' U' B2 L2 B' F' L' 
41. 20.54 U2 B' U2 L2 F' U2 B' D2 F' R2 B' U' F' D2 F2 L D2 U' B L' F' 
42. 20.11 F' L' U2 F2 D2 B2 U2 R2 B2 L U2 R D U2 B' U F' L2 F D' F' 
43. 16.66 R' B2 D2 R2 D B2 U' B2 F2 D' L2 R' B R F2 D' L' B' D' F2 
44. 18.84 R2 F' U2 B2 R2 B2 F' D2 F L2 D2 L U F' U2 L F' R2 U' R2 
45. 17.08 L F2 D2 R' U2 L' F2 U2 L U2 R' D' L' R2 D2 B' U' L2 D2 B2 
46. 16.44 F L2 B2 F R2 F D2 R2 U2 R2 F2 U L' D B2 L F U B' F' D 
47. 17.01 F U2 B2 L2 D U2 L2 U' F2 U F2 L2 R U2 L' F' D B' D 
48. (22.23) L' U2 L' D L' F2 D L' R2 B U2 F' R2 L2 U2 B2 R2 D2 
49. 17.37 F2 U2 R2 D2 U2 B U2 F2 L2 B' D2 L U2 R U R' B U2 F' D' R2 
50. 17.29 U F2 D' R2 D L2 U F2 U' B2 U2 L' R U R D B' U B R' F2


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## mafergut (Nov 24, 2016)

@pipkiksass You are already faster than I am... and in 7 weeks 
Regarding your question about how we find time to practise while having also a job, it's easy, I can't find any time. I just practice maybe 30min some days, others nothing... weekends I can usually practise maybe even 1.5h on average, except these two months that I'm busy with work even on weekends.


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## Shaky Hands (Nov 24, 2016)

Today I managed to break my 5x5 PB twice in the same Ao5.

2:54.51, 2:33.63, (3:12.05,) 2:50.62, (2:32.29)

I used to always either solve my cross colour or LL colour centres first on 5x5, but I've managed to go fully colour-neutral for centres now, which has helped me take advantage of certain scrambles.

Annoyingly, I needed to 2-look the OLL's for both PB's otherwise I may have hit my target of 2:30. Then I just need to get everything to flow properly in a comp so I can repeat it and record an average. One day it will happen...


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## newtonbase (Nov 24, 2016)

Shaky Hands said:


> Today I managed to break my 5x5 PB twice in the same Ao5.
> 
> 2:54.51, 2:33.63, (3:12.05,) 2:50.62, (2:32.29)
> 
> ...


I've always been colour neutral on 5x5 centres. It was recommended on a video I saw when learning. Chris Olson's maybe? It's fairly straightforward. 

Well done on the PBs.


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## mafergut (Nov 24, 2016)

@Shaky Hands Not nearly as fast as your times but I could find 30min today to practice 5x5 and got my 1st sub-3min Ao5:

avg of 5: 2:59.50
2:59.12, 3:05.43, (2:43.55), (3:09.18), 2:53.93

Failed an F2L pair in the 2:43.xx and spoiled the opportunity to also beat my PB single (2:39.xx).


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## Shaky Hands (Nov 24, 2016)

mafergut said:


> ...spoiled the opportunity to also beat my PB single (3:39.xx).



*2*:39.xx?


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## mafergut (Nov 24, 2016)

Shaky Hands said:


> *2*:39.xx?


Yes, thanks!!!!
Continued to Ao12 and got new PB and also improved the Ao5 (and got even closer to PB single):
*avg of 5: 2:54.31* = 3:05.43, (2:43.55), (3:09.18), 2:53.93, 2:43.57
*avg of 12: 3:02.27* = 2:59.12, 3:05.43, 2:43.55, 3:09.18, 2:53.93, 2:43.57, 3:12.36, 3:12.18, 3:09.54, 3:13.76, (2:41.35), (3:31.75)


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## Logiqx (Nov 24, 2016)

Shaky Hands said:


> @Logiqx - Ian wasn't at UKC this year. Maybe you're recalling the Guildford comp?



Yes. I meant Guildford.

My cube lessons finished today. The world now has another 6 cubers and they seem to enjoy it. 

So... I taught 6 guys and my boss can also solve using a corners first method (since 1979) so there are 8 cubers in the room. Apart from at cube competitions it's the highest number of cubers that I've seen in one place. Another team member is on long term sick leave but he can already cube and 2 guys are due back next week so someone can teach them as well.

I'm off work next week so it'll be interesting to see if they have practiced / improved whilst I'm gone.


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## pipkiksass (Nov 24, 2016)

So here's where I find learning OLLs gets interesting - trying to remember algs and recog by shapes, where often the algs require different AUF to their inverses, or to the other cases in the shape "group". How to efficiently get to that level of familiarity with the algs so that you can differentiate between the cases rapidly, get to the right AUF to execute your alg, and execute.

For example, I'm working on Knight moves. What I've done is found algs I like (courtesy of @Logiqx, thanks very much for this).

For anyone who's really bored, I'll take one pair of algs as an example/case study:



Spoiler: the "squeegees"



This is OLL 16: Anti-Squeegee





rUr' (RUR'U') rU'r' = setup, sexy, undo in FR corner

I will use this orientation for both recog and execution.

This is OLL 15: Squeegee



r'u'r (R'U'RU) r'Ur = setup, inv. sexy, undo in BR corner

I will use this orientation for both recog and execution.
*
Recog & Execution*

So here's how this will work for me, at least until I get more familiar with these patterns:


I look at the unsolved edges, and notice that the Squeegees have one unsolved edge in a pair of stickers facing outwards, and one on its own. This is as opposed to the Guns (the other pair of Knight Move OLLs), which have two pairs of stickers facing outwards. So if there's one edge sticker facing out in a pair, one alone, it's a squeegee.
Having decided it's a squeegee case, I put the 'handle' (the correctly oriented corner) on the right. My algs for "gun" cases put the 'handle' on the left. 
If the 'handle' is at the front, I 'wide' remove the BR F2L pair for setup, inv. sexy, replace; if it's at the back, I 'wide' remove the FR F2L pair for setup, sexy, replace.

And that's it. Boiled down into 3 'steps', which should allow me to recognise these cases and to remember and execute the appropriate algs, hopefully fairly soon.



I think I've always tried to do this kind of visual thing with OLLs. Just wondering what strategies others use/have used for learning OLLs?


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## mark49152 (Nov 25, 2016)

pipkiksass said:


> I think I've always tried to do this kind of visual thing with OLLs. Just wondering what strategies others use/have used for learning OLLs?


Generally I think I only look at one sticker or feature on the sides, for faster recognition. The less you need to check, the better. With the knight moves, I look at the side sticker touching the corner of the L. If it's the top colour it's a squeegee, if not it's a gun.


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## pglewis (Nov 25, 2016)

Stumbled on another candidate to handle the triple-sexy case with the destination slot diagonal: double sledge and a quick pair insert 

Curious to hear from all you fast sune-ers as how much practical potential that might have in a speedsolve.


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## Selkie (Nov 25, 2016)

With all this alg speed I wish I had checked the thread suner! Tried a few anti sunes which is by far my fastest OLL. Seem to be averaging about 0.65ish with a 0.489 single. I did get all my PLLs sub 2 seconds a couple of years ago but not sure if they are still there. Was considering doing a video of my PLLs but I would want to do all my PLLs which must be over 50 with different versions, angles etc.

I hadn't come across that blog before nor remember meeting the guy at UKC but i agree would be great for him to join the thread.

I did receive the latest cube order and filmed it but have not uploaded any video yet but will do in the morning.

Could not sleep tonight so retreated to the kitchen for some 6x6 on the Qiyi WuHua which I am loving more and more every solve. Managed the following which is PB for single, mo3 and ao5

3:32.19, 3:42.58, 3:55.47, 3:56.14, 3:43.87

Single PB: 3:32.19 (Panicked and did the wrong U perm so had to do another or would have been sub 3:30!
mo3 PB: 3:43.41
ao5 PB: 3:47.30

The Qiyi is getting better and better, what an awesome cube and whilst the Weishi has arrived and will be on the unboxing video I will upload it is a black cube so my recognition is bad and times slow on it but it does have promise. That said it is going to take a lot to dislodge the WuHua from main 6x6 status.

Been a very stressed week for me with the redundancy threat but had a consultation meeting with my employers yesterday and they have offered a very favorable redundancy package. The sort where we have do some stuff to the house, book a nice holiday, do some day/weekend trips with family and still have enough put by so I would not have to work for a year. I will of course try and get a job as quickly as possible but I think I will accept the deal and look to move forward with my career. If we can speed cube in our 40's guys we can certainly face a job change


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## Selkie (Nov 25, 2016)

@pglewis - Drilling algs is a great way to improve their speed and improve times. Almost essential in the move from sub 20 to sub 15. Whereas F2L is about look ahead and maintaining a speed to track pieces, LL is all about raw TPS. Whilst not many would necessarily drill sunes, drilling any alg has benefits as it gets your hands used to moving faster. I will try and get all my PLLs on film being sub 2 which is OK for a 15s solver. @Shaky Hands linked a video by the great, ex World Champion Breandan Vallance. The guys amazes me to this day and I feel privileged to talk to him at comps. He posted a video more than 5 years ago of himself doing all PLLs sub 1s!

@Shaky Hands Wow Andy your 5x5 times are coming on great! That on a Qiyi? Go go average a Brum Open buddy 

@mafergut - Congratulations on the PBs  So much 5x5 love today 

@Logiqx - Luckily being a pusher of algorithms doesn't carry the same stigma or prison sentence mate 

@mark49152 - Hope you will be able to make Brum but completely understand if you cant mate.


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## pglewis (Nov 25, 2016)

Selkie said:


> @pglewis - Drilling algs is a great way to improve their speed and improve times. Almost essential in the move from sub 20 to sub 15. Whereas F2L is about look ahead and maintaining a speed to track pieces, LL is all about raw TPS. Whilst not many would necessarily drill sunes, drilling any alg has benefits as it gets your hands used to moving faster. I will try and get all my PLLs on film being sub 2 which is OK for a 15s solver. @Shaky Hands linked a video by the great, ex World Champion Breandan Vallance. The guys amazes me to this day and I feel privileged to talk to him at comps. He posted a video more than 5 years ago of himself doing all PLLs sub 1s!



Actually, one of the bad habits I have to consciously break is turning too fast in my F2L resulting in the typical stop and start. When I've gotten "in my groove" lately I've at least been slowing down the end of the insert to get a head-start on the next pair. At the same time I've also found a fair number of nice theoretical F2L cases that work fine in slow solves but don't scale up to faster speed and/or cause awkward grip shifts, so I don't need to waste time ingraining a case if it's going to end up a dead-end.

Better lookahead has been teasing me this past week, all for the postive. I've been getting some flashes but can't quite call upon it at will just yet. On my better solves I'm getting smoother transitions between cross and F2L and between my LL algs as well, not just my pairs. Another bad habit with my OLLs and PLLs has been closing my eyes to get rid of distractions for the muscle memory to take over. It turns out lookahead works better with my eyes open and slowing down the end of my algs and looking into the next step has been another big help when things are clicking.


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## teacher77 (Nov 25, 2016)

Shaky Hands said:


> @teacher77 - nice progress. You might want to take part in the Race to Sub-30 at some point too. I found that a nice landmark point for me.



Thanks ! I'll look into it during the Xmas vacation.


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## mark49152 (Nov 25, 2016)

@Selkie: Good luck with whatever you do next Chris, it sounds like there's a silver lining, and I hope it all works out well for you!


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## mafergut (Nov 25, 2016)

@Selkie, I'm glad to hear that your company is offering you a package worth considering. Good luck with looking for a new job. I really wish you the best!

Also,... that 3:32.xx 6x6 time is insane!!! What's your 5x5 PB? Because that is like the equivalent of a 1:45.xx 5x5. I know you can reach sub-2 at 5x5 but, c'mon, at this pace you are gonna be the fastest over 40 on this whole mudball!!!


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## h2f (Nov 25, 2016)

@Selkie, Chris good luck. I know what you feeling. Maybe I will have to change a job during spring time...

I've made subtitles to my last vlog. I hope they are understandable.


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## Selkie (Nov 25, 2016)

@pglewis - Lookahead will come in time but a good test in F2L is to look at a pair. Close your eyes and solve it. Rince and repeat. This will tell you if you actually need to look at any cases whilst solving them. When you don't then you also don't need to look at the whilst solving with your eyes open leaving you to watch how the other pieces move 

@mark49152 , @mafergut , @h2f - Thanks guys. I am sure it will all work out in the end.

@h2f - Thanks for taking the time to add sub titles, really enjoyed watching

@mafergut - I think my PB on 5x5 is a 1:47.xy but on 5x5 I average about 2:08. The improvement on 6x6 has been in the last two weeks where my PB for a mean of 3 was about 3:56.xy I seem to be beating that every few days. I am going to say that is more down to the new hardware rather than me, especially the Qiyi WuHua which seems perfect for me. Really enjoying the larger puzzles at the moment 6x6, 7x7 etc


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## h2f (Nov 25, 2016)

Selkie said:


> @h2f - Thanks for taking the time to add sub titles, really enjoyed watching



Thanks for a feedback. It's only 7 minutes but I needed more than an hour to prepare it. I wish my English was better.


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## bubbagrub (Nov 25, 2016)

@Selkie: Sorry to hear it's been a stressful time, but glad to hear the result has been not too bad. I hope it works out well.

A question I have for everyone: I've never done any kind of edge control, and am getting sick of horrible dot OLL cases, and also have a feeling that if I learn some edge control it might also generally contribute to my understanding of the cube which might be helpful for things like FMC. Anyway, I've been practising some slow solves where I do my best to orient all edges while inserting the last pair, and at least ensure there are two edges oriented in the worst case. I'm finding that doing it slowly, I can easily figure out without too much thinking how to orient edges, but then when I do fast solves it all goes out the window. I assume that if I practise it enough, it would start to come naturally including when I was solving more quickly, but I wonder if anyone else has experience or views on this? Is edge control worthwhile, or does it add too much overhead to the F2L?


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## mark49152 (Nov 25, 2016)

h2f said:


> Thanks for a feedback. It's only 7 minutes but I needed more than an hour to prepare it. I wish my English was better.


Yeah thanks, I really enjoyed watching that, it's nice to see some other thoughts and views on the topic of cubing. Your English is fine. It's a shame there's not more YouTube content like this. There's only so many solves and unboxings I can watch before I get bored.


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## Shaky Hands (Nov 25, 2016)

h2f said:


> Thanks for a feedback. It's only 7 minutes but I needed more than an hour to prepare it. I wish my English was better.



Thanks for the subtitles. Much appreciated! Your English is absolutely fine.


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## Shaky Hands (Nov 25, 2016)

Selkie said:


> @Shaky Hands Wow Andy your 5x5 times are coming on great! That on a Qiyi? Go go average a Brum Open buddy



Yes that's on Qiyi. I adjusted the tensions (tightened it from default settings) and it improved a bit for my turning style.

I don't recommend you holding your breath on the chance of me getting a 5x5 average at Brum but anything's possible. 4x4 average is more likely but I figure that's a 50% chance at best.

I think I posted here 6+ months ago, before noticing @Logiqx's thread regarding relative solve times that I'd like to get a 4x4 and 5x5 average by the end of the calendar year. I've managed to knock 50% off my averages for both since that point, so even though I doubt I'll reach that target I'll be close enough to them that the effort will have been worth it as I'm so much faster at big cubes overall than I was at the time I wrote that. Plus, for a 3x3 solver that averages ~25s I think my big cube times are respectable.

My other main targets for the year were getting a BLD success at home and learning all of OLL. I've achieved the first. For OLL, I know almost all the cases (51 at last count,) just not well enough to use them all when speedsolving. In FMC I can use them all as I can spend the additional time recognising and executing.


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## h2f (Nov 25, 2016)

@mark49152 @Shaky Hands Thanks a lot. I've started adding subs for a sunday vlog. 



mark49152 said:


> It's a shame there's not more YouTube content like this. There's only so many solves and unboxings I can watch before I get bored.



My intial thought was close to it but after few weeks I've realized there's no cubing vlogs. So I've started to connect cubing and the things I usually do - driving for my son, driving to a job etc. For last few weeks I watch 3 or 4 channels with daily vlogs: in Polish and in Eglish (sad that Casey Neistat stopped vlogging).


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## pipkiksass (Nov 25, 2016)

bubbagrub said:


> Is edge control worthwhile, or does it add too much overhead to the F2L?



I only use edge control where I have a made pair in the U later, and can see that RU'R' would leave me with a dot/2 corners. In those cases R'FRF' will flip the R and F edges, so I can end up either not having a bad dot case, or sometimes only OCLL cases.

Where I have a 3 move insert which will leave a dot case, I don't think it's overly efficient to NOT do the 3 move insert and do something clever. I'm sure, if you're Mats Valk, there's clever stuff to do in those cases, but making the pair in the U layer and orienting edges is, IMHO, less efficient than 2-look OLL.

To summarise: only when it's both obvious and easy to do so!!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## pglewis (Nov 25, 2016)

@Selkie: So glad to hear about the generous package they're offering even though the uncertainty isn't fun. I'm fairly sure I'd take it as well; even if I make the cut _now_, am I going to have to face the same dilemma annually? Here's to the path of least anxiety no matter which way the roller-coaster takes you. 

I haven't started hardcore blind pair drills but it has been at least part of my regimen for several weeks and is definitely responsible for the majority of my recent lookahead gains. It has also been my primary indicator for which cases to focus on next. Y'all haven't steered me wrong yet, your collective advice is paying off. I expect by the beginning of the year sub 30 won't be the unicorn it is right now. That's really satisfying when consistent sub 1 min was a goal in late summer. 

@bubbagrub: I'm in much the same boat with edge control. I definitely think it's worthwhile for me just for avoiding the dot case... when I remember to look. I question the savings in some cases still; I lose fast *R U R'* inserts on some last pairs plus whatever OLL case turns up, whereas the optimum for all dot OLL cases is apparently ~11HTM. (I see @pipkiksass says the same)

@h2f: Thank you for the time and effort to do the translation. I enjoyed the vlog!


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## Lid (Nov 25, 2016)

More Square-1 here!
New a12 PB first sub17: *16.373*, PB with 0.763(!)
Two counting 12's helps 

Best time:
4. (11.855) (1, 3) / (-3, 0) / (3, 0) / (-4, -1) / (-3, -3) / (0, -2) / (-3, 0) / (6, -1) / (-2, 0) / (-4, 0) / (-4, -5)
y2 2,0/-1,0/-3,0/ || CS
1,6/5,2 || OBL
1,4/-1,2/-2,-2/3,0/ || CP, pure JJ, avoids the horrible W/O
3,-3/5,-1/-3,0/1,1/-3,0/(-1,0) || EP good U's



Spoiler: Scambles & Times



Average of 12: 16.373
1. 17.809 (4, 0) / (-4, -1) / (-5, -2) / (3, 0) / (-4, -1) / (0, -2) / (-3, 0) / (4, 0) / (-1, 0) / (-2, 0) / (-5, -4) / (-3, -4)
2. 12.989 (0, 2) / (3, 0) / (3, 0) / (-3, 0) / (0, -3) / (-5, -5) / (0, -3) / (-4, 0) / (0, -3) / (-2, 0) / (2, 0) / (-2, 0) / (1, 0) / (4, 0)
3. 17.077 (0, -4) / (-2, 4) / (5, -4) / (-3, 0) / (4, -2) / (3, -1) / (-3, 0) / (3, 0) / (-4, 0) / (-2, 0) / (3, -2) / (6, 0)
4. (11.855) (1, 3) / (-3, 0) / (3, 0) / (-4, -1) / (-3, -3) / (0, -2) / (-3, 0) / (6, -1) / (-2, 0) / (-4, 0) / (-4, -5)
5. 18.070[p] (0, -4) / (-5, -2) / (3, 0) / (0, -3) / (-4, -4) / (-2, -5) / (-4, 0) / (0, -3) / (4, -1) / (-2, -4) / (4, 0) / (6, 0) /
6. 15.932 (0, 5) / (0, -3) / (-3, 0) / (-2, -2) / (0, -3) / (6, 0) / (0, -1) / (-3, 0) / (0, -2) / (-1, -3) / (-4, 0) / (-3, -4) /
7. 16.460 (0, 2) / (4, 4) / (3, 0) / (-1, -4) / (-3, 0) / (1, -5) / (-4, 0) / (6, -3) / (3, -5) / (0, -1) / (-4, 0) / (0, -5)
8. 14.471 (3, -4) / (-2, -5) / (3, 0) / (-4, -1) / (-5, -2) / (6, -1) / (-3, -3) / (-1, -2) / (-4, -2) / (-3, -2)
9. 16.057 (-2, 0) / (0, 6) / (3, 0) / (-1, -4) / (0, -3) / (-3, -2) / (6, -3) / (2, 0) / (-5, 0) / (-4, 0) / (6, -3) / (3, 0) / (-4, 0) /
10. (24.375[p]) (1, -3) / (3, 0) / (2, -4) / (1, -2) / (5, -1) / (6, -5) / (3, 0) / (3, 0) / (-2, 0) / (4, -4) / (3, -2) / (-2, 0)
11. 12.420 (-3, 5) / (4, -2) / (6, -3) / (-3, 0) / (-1, -4) / (4, -3) / (-3, -3) / (-1, 0) / (-4, 0) / (4, 0) / (4, -4) / (0, -4)
12. 22.440[p] (1, 0) / (5, -4) / (0, -3) / (3, -3) / (1, -2) / (6, 0) / (-1, 0) / (0, -3) / (0, -3) / (3, 0) / (6, -4) / (2, -5) / (-1, 0)


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## pglewis (Nov 25, 2016)

pglewis said:


> I expect by the beginning of the year sub 30 won't be the unicorn it is right now.



Haha... 30.056, 2-look last layer . It just keeps denying me


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## earth2dan (Nov 25, 2016)

Shaky Hands said:


> Today I managed to break my 5x5 PB twice in the same Ao5.


Nice! I'm loving my new QiYi 5x5 as well.

@Selkie I'm glad they've offered you a good deal. Sounds like the right call taking it. Wow, I'm totally blown away by those 6x6 times! You're an inspiration, and despite what I said now you've got me eyeballing that new QiYi 6x6 

Holy smokes guys! Impressive sune's all around. I don't have a stackmat timer, just keyboard and cell phone. Not sure if my timers are a factor, but I'm not even close to you guys. I cannot, for the life of me, sub 1 a sune. I just did 20 or so sunes/antisunes and my best was 1.02/1.04 respectively. Average was probably 1.15 (if I ignore the couple I flubbed).


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## kbrune (Nov 25, 2016)

I've been working on 3 cycle for corners lately. What a frustrating process! I'm finally at the point where I can solve any 3 cycle By setting up to pure comms. 

However. I'm very slow! Especially when cube rotations are required. Takes forever to find a simple setup and if I have to rotate the cube it often messes me up.

I've noticed a few mentions of corner comms but am unsure who uses them in this thread.

I'm looking for any advice or tips and trick for the transition to comms. I've watched Noah's tutorial vids so I've used some of his suggestions like starting with one sticker and going through all 18 combinations. It's helped. But so far I don't see how I'll ever become quick enough to fully use comms.


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## mark49152 (Nov 25, 2016)

kbrune said:


> However. I'm very slow! Especially when cube rotations are required. Takes forever to find a simple setup and if I have to rotate the cube it often messes me up.


It takes a long time and a lot of work and patience to switch. I have spent months and done thousands of corners only solves and am only now surpassing where I was with OP corners. The difference is that OP is brainless and you just keep spamming TPS without pauses until done. Comms are way more move efficient, but it takes only short pauses to cancel out the time benefit gained from that efficiency. Eliminating those pauses takes a lot of practice. Comms is a long term investment.


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## kbrune (Nov 25, 2016)

@pglewis
Keep at it. I remember when I challenged myself to become sub 30. It felt like it took forever (about 4 months) But then all of a sudden I dropped 5-8 second almost over night. (Prob over a couple weeks) I remember wondering if I was getting easy scrambles or unknowingly cheating. Sub 30 is all practice. No matter if you're 4 look LL or 1 look. You'll get there!


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## kbrune (Nov 25, 2016)

@mark49152
That makes me feel better about the whole thing. In his vids. Noah says that it's akin to when you learned F2L. I can see the parallel but it's waaaaaaaay more difficult. Considering there are about 6 times (ish) more possible cases.

Did you spend a lot of time looking at how other people approached cases you had a hard time with? Or simply practicing the way you figured them out until they started becoming more familiar?


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## bubbagrub (Nov 25, 2016)

@Lid and @pipkiksass -- thanks both for the tips. Sounds like the way to go is to use partial edge control for avoiding dot cases. I have found it interesting how easy it is (when solving slowly) in about 75% of cases to orient all edges while inserting the last pair, but it's pretty clear that this is not of much practical value for speedsolving.


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## mark49152 (Nov 25, 2016)

kbrune said:


> Did you spend a lot of time looking at how other people approached cases you had a hard time with? Or simply practicing the way you figured them out until they started becoming more familiar?


Both. I figured out my own system, but when I'm not happy with something, will look at how others do it to get new ideas.

F2L is a very good parallel for how you learn to figure out comms. Then over time it becomes more automatic, so each setup and comm just becomes tightly associated with the letter pair and executed from muscle memory without thought; in a way that's more like LL.


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## newtonbase (Nov 25, 2016)

kbrune said:


> I've been working on 3 cycle for corners lately. What a frustrating process! I'm finally at the point where I can solve any 3 cycle By setting up to pure comms.
> 
> However. I'm very slow! Especially when cube rotations are required. Takes forever to find a simple setup and if I have to rotate the cube it often messes me up.
> 
> ...


I'm learning them too and it's a long, slow process. I did start by writing them down as I did them but I'm now just doing corners only solves. I'm trying to focus on the shapes while saying the letter pair to myself on the hope that it'll stick next time. I did try to do a little flow chart of the thought process so that I could come up with a list of rules but it was far too complex. I would recommend that you learn more than just pure comms. I like columns.


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## Logiqx (Nov 25, 2016)

bubbagrub said:


> @Lid and @pipkiksass -- thanks both for the tips. Sounds like the way to go is to use partial edge control for avoiding dot cases. I have found it interesting how easy it is (when solving slowly) in about 75% of cases to orient all edges while inserting the last pair, but it's pretty clear that this is not of much practical value for speedsolving.


Absolutely use sledge to avoid the dots. You'll still have to deal with dots after split pair insertions but I reckon 2/3 of my F2L solutions are joined pairs.

There are a couple of nice 5 move EO algs but their benefit is debatable if you know full OLL. The regular insert may set up an easy P case, small lightning bolt or square whereas a sledge might give you a less favourable OCLL.

Generally speaking, I think I prefer COLL + EPLL over OLL + PLL but I'm not sure I prefer OCLL cases over OLL.

I stopped using the 5 movers a long time ago but I re-learned them again after COLL at which point they became more useful.

I also played with the algs for split pairs but I don't use them now even though they lead to COLL cases. They're just too long to feel worthwhile but I may change my mind in the future.

TL;DR - Use sledge to avoid dots but leave it at that until you know COLL or a big chunk of ZBLL. EO should not be used as a way of procrastinating over learning full OLL either. 

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk


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## h2f (Nov 25, 2016)

kbrune said:


> I'm looking for any advice or tips and trick for the transition to comms. I've watched Noah's tutorial vids so I've used some of his suggestions like starting with one sticker and going through all 18 combinations. It's helped. But so far I don't see how I'll ever become quick enough to fully use comms.



I'm using comms too. I followed Noah tutorial and started from making a list of comms. It took me few months to make it and to get used to it. The most important thing in my opinion is understanding how they work. I switch for better solutions when I understand how they work. Many cases you can solve with setups, and sometimes you can solve the case with a pure comm but it's better to make a setup. When you start using it it's a matter of time when the solves are better and better.


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## pglewis (Nov 25, 2016)

kbrune said:


> @pglewis
> Keep at it. I remember when I challenged myself to become sub 30. It felt like it took forever (about 4 months) But then all of a sudden I dropped 5-8 second almost over night. (Prob over a couple weeks) I remember wondering if I was getting easy scrambles or unknowingly cheating. Sub 30 is all practice. No matter if you're 4 look LL or 1 look. You'll get there!



Your support was just the push I needed... or maybe just a PLL skip . 

single: 27.141, dropped 4.7 seconds
mo3: 31.833, dropped 4 seconds
ao5: 35.593, dropped over a second and a half

It was a good day.


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## mark49152 (Nov 26, 2016)

I thought I'd have a go at solving some of the other puzzles that have been lying around unsolved for several years.

Dino cube was easy. I solved the helicopter cube intuitively after some trial and error, and also the curvy copter. Then tried skewb. OMG, how can anyone solve that thing? Especially in a few seconds! I can't even tell what's happening when I turn it


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## newtonbase (Nov 26, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> I thought I'd have a go at solving some of the other puzzles that have been lying around unsolved for several years.
> 
> Dino cube was easy. I solved the helicopter cube intuitively after some trial and error, and also the curvy copter. Then tried skewb. OMG, how can anyone solve that thing? Especially in a few seconds! I can't even tell what's happening when I turn it


The skewb makes no sense. I can solve it but I've no idea how to hold it. It sits on my left palm while I turn with my right hand inspiring looks of pity from 12yo judges.
My niece likes to mess with my head by scrambling random puzzles from my collection. My squan has sat unsolved but in cube shape for a couple of years. This morning I found it jumbled. I'm sure it's only 4 moves max off cube shape but I've given up trying to work it out.


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## muchacho (Nov 26, 2016)

You may try this:
http://hem.bredband.net/_zlv_/rubiks/sq1/sq1-shape.html

Or maybe it would be easier to follow this:
http://www.alchemistmatt.com/cube/square1list.html
just search the shapes (bottom is as if looking from bottom), cut like shown and go to the next shape


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## mitja (Nov 26, 2016)

bubbagrub said:


> @Lid and @pipkiksass -- thanks both for the tips. Sounds like the way to go is to use partial edge control for avoiding dot cases. I have found it interesting how easy it is (when solving slowly) in about 75% of cases to orient all edges while inserting the last pair, but it's pretty clear that this is not of much practical value for speedsolving.


I still believe it is good to learn full oll. It will help you to become more familliar with what is happening during LL solving. You can still utilise hammer for f2l insert later, depending on situation. Why do you find dot cases difficult? They are mostly combination of other cases. Do you have problem with recognition? I started cubing a year ago again after 33 years. First thing i started is to learn oll, as we already used f2l and some pll back in 1981. At the beginning olls looked too simillar and especially hard to recognise, because it is so many of them. Eventually you'll find your own way of recognition. The most important for me is that i learned a lot about the movement on the cube by trying to observe what is hapenning during whole faze of each oll. So i find them very usefull for other algorithms. 
The time you need to decide about last f2l insert is probably the same or longer then recognising and executing longer oll case.


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## mark49152 (Nov 26, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> The skewb makes no sense. I can solve it but I've no idea how to hold it. It sits on my left palm while I turn with my right hand inspiring looks of pity from 12yo judges.


The thing I can't grasp about skewb is that half the pieces are affected by each move. I don't have any other puzzles like that and am struggling to figure it out intuitively because it behaves so differently.


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## newtonbase (Nov 26, 2016)

muchacho said:


> You may try this:
> http://hem.bredband.net/_zlv_/rubiks/sq1/sq1-shape.html
> 
> Or maybe it would be easier to follow this:
> ...


/3,0/
Thanks


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## h2f (Nov 26, 2016)

@mark49152 @newtonbase Have you heard about Polish fingertrick and something like that? The secret is to keep the bottom side on the left side of the cube. Look at this:


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## Logiqx (Nov 26, 2016)

mitja said:


> I still believe it is good to learn full oll. It will help you to become more familliar with what is happening during LL solving. You can still utilise hammer for f2l insert later, depending on situation. Why do you find dot cases difficult? They are mostly combination of other cases. Do you have problem with recognition? I started cubing a year ago again after 33 years. First thing i started is to learn oll, as we already used f2l and some pll back in 1981. At the beginning olls looked too simillar and especially hard to recognise, because it is so many of them. Eventually you'll find your own way of recognition. The most important for me is that i learned a lot about the movement on the cube by trying to observe what is hapenning during whole faze of each oll. So i find them very usefull for other algorithms.
> The time you need to decide about last f2l insert is probably the same or longer then recognising and executing longer oll case.



Your advice is sound. IMO people should learn full OLL rather than relying on edge control and I'd also advise people to learn the dot cases first. However, I'd also suggest avoiding the dot cases using a sledge hammer even if you know the algs... 9 times out of 10 it's going to be faster to do a sledgehammer and solve the adjacent flip OLL.

I think Ben (@bubbagrub) pretty much knows full OLL and his query originally asked whether edge control is worthwhile. If Ben does know the dot cases then I'd suggest a sledge hammer insertion to avoid them but they'll never go away completely as R' F R F' is only a substitute for R U' R'. IMO it's not worth doing a longer alternative to R U R' as you'd be better off with OLL + PLL.

Besides the sledge hammer, I don't think additional edge control is particularly useful unless you can take advantage of the resultant COLL case. OLL + PLL is a great approach to the LL which will typically outperform EOLS + OCLL + PLL. However, fast EOLS + COLL + EPLL is typically better than OLL + PLL during 2H solves and almost always better during OH / big cube solves.

My advice: Learn PLL then OLL then COLL then the good EOLS cases 








mark49152 said:


> The thing I can't grasp about skewb is that half the pieces are affected by each move. I don't have any other puzzles like that and am struggling to figure it out intuitively because it behaves so differently.



It's a weird puzzle and it moves in mysterious ways! See what triple sledgehammer does then try to work out a method.

You'll probably come up with the same method as mine... inefficient but a "self discovery".


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## newtonbase (Nov 26, 2016)

h2f said:


> @mark49152 @newtonbase Have you heard about Polish fingertrick and something like that? The secret is to keep the bottom side on the left side of the cube. Look at this:


Not bad but have you seen this?


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## h2f (Nov 26, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> Not bad but have you seen this?


 Live...


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## pipkiksass (Nov 26, 2016)

Just doing a few slow solves, and had two back-to-back fluid solves with OLLs I know and PLL skip. #onlywhenthetimersoff

@newtonbase, can you teach me the finger tricks you use???

I may buy a skewb, they look fun!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## bubbagrub (Nov 26, 2016)

@mark49152 Skewb is great fun -- I recommend it. My mind is blown that you figured out the curvy copter intuitively -- I tried for ages and got nowhere. That polish fingertrick that h2f shared is definitely a good way to go, once you know how to solve it. But if you manage to figure out how to solve it yourself, intuitively, that'll be very impressive! 

@Logiqx, @mitja -- sounds like good advice. Thanks! And yes, as you say, I know pretty much all of OLL, including all the dot cases, but I do find the dot cases awkward and slow -- actually they tend to take me longer to recognise cases than other OLLs, as well as slower execution, for some reason.


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## kbrune (Nov 26, 2016)

I just picked up my new Galaxy S7 today! Now I have to go get all of my apps again. What apps do you all use for timing solves on your phone?


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## Jason Green (Nov 26, 2016)

kbrune said:


> I just picked up my new Galaxy S7 today! Now I have to go get all of my apps again. What apps do you all use for timing solves on your phone?


I like plusTimer.


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## newtonbase (Nov 27, 2016)

kbrune said:


> I just picked up my new Galaxy S7 today! Now I have to go get all of my apps again. What apps do you all use for timing solves on your phone?


I use plusTimer too but quite like Nano Timer. I've also just got ChronoTimer as it has corners only scrambles which I use for comms practice.

You don't get to where I am by sharing all your secrets @pipkiksass!


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## newtonbase (Nov 27, 2016)

... and @muchacho, thanks to your links I finished the squan solve. First time that's happened since I bought it. Unfortunately my niece is staying over tonight and has scrambled that and several other tricky puzzles. Again.


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## mark49152 (Nov 27, 2016)

@Logiqx, @newtonbase, @h2f, @bubbagrub... Thanks, triple sledgehammer did the trick and now I have some plastic shards and a few spare screws. Thanks for the tip!


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## pglewis (Nov 27, 2016)

Stubbornly got the sub 30 so the timer is put away and I'm finishing combing through F2L, still a few gems I hadn't mined in there yet. Sub-40 ao12 would be easy to get as another milestone but I'm just as happy waiting and crushing that on the next go-round. Not unreasonable to want to see multiple 20s in an ao12 after some cross and blind pair drills, time for me to make 20s the new 30s.


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## h2f (Nov 27, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> @Logiqx, @newtonbase, @h2f, @bubbagrub... Thanks, triple sledgehammer did the trick and now I have some plastic shards and a few spare screws. Thanks for the tip!



Ouch. Take it as a opportunity to see how it's build. 

I switched to dual CN in a normal solves and forced myself to predict the first pair. I've noticed that with dual CN I can do this in around 70% cases and the crosses became much easier.


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## mafergut (Nov 27, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> @Logiqx, @newtonbase, @h2f, @bubbagrub... Thanks, triple sledgehammer did the trick and now I have some plastic shards and a few spare screws. Thanks for the tip!


You really know how to use a sledgehammer. You hit it hard, didn't you? 

By the way, Yuxin 7x7 already available for sale. The opportunity to retire my black plastic AoFu GT with an astonishing... 20 solves and get a stickerless Yuxin?


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## pipkiksass (Nov 27, 2016)

h2f said:


> Ouch. Take it as a opportunity to see how it's build.
> 
> I switched to dual CN in a normal solves and forced myself to predict the first pair. I've noticed that with dual CN I can do this in around 70% cases and the crosses became much easier.



I often go white/yellow CN when slow turning. I find much easier crosses, but often get confused over F2L as my F2L is almost entirely intuitive and my recog seems to fail with yellow corners, so I end up with a white corner and a twisted edge!!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## h2f (Nov 27, 2016)

pipkiksass said:


> I often go white/yellow CN when slow turning.



I did the same. Finally forced to do it in normal solves. First ao100 was a little bit sub-20. 2nd and 3rd sub19.


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## mafergut (Nov 27, 2016)

Dual CN white / yellow is something I did almost from the beginning when I started speedsolving. Later on I have tried to become full CN but I have found it more difficult, not sure if that's because I'm now faster than when I became dual CN or simply because it is just more difficult. I think I'm like 2-3 seconds slower on average on the other 4 colours but maybe with more time and willpower I could succeed. The question is, there are maybe other things I could improve that would have a higher impact in my average times, like better algs, more F2L efficiency...


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## muchacho (Nov 27, 2016)

I've just made a Thunderclap MCR (Magnetized Columns for Roux), with (a total of 16) magnets only between 4 of the edges and the corners (I solve any color on the sides with white or yellow on top).

The reasoning was that it could help me with my problem with overshooting U moves during CMLL and LSE while avoiding slowing down the M slice. We'll see, I'll tell you tomorrow if it works or if science bit me in the ass and I have to remove them or try the full of magnets approach.

For now I can just guess that the magnets are not strong enough, I used 4x1.5 N40 magnets (maybe I could just glue another magnet to the corners ones).


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## pglewis (Nov 27, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> @Logiqx, @newtonbase, @h2f, @bubbagrub... Thanks, triple sledgehammer did the trick and now I have some plastic shards and a few spare screws. Thanks for the tip!



I was going to mention that a good portion of my time with Skewb so far involves catching it when it squirts out of my hands. I see you've picked up my technique!


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## pipkiksass (Nov 27, 2016)

Oooh, just has a 12.75 single with a PLL skip. Slowing down a bit (it's 11pm here), it's not a PB, but my single PBs are from 2014. Always nice to get times like that. My rolling Ao100 is consistently staying under 19 seconds, and my Ao1000 on CSTimer is creeping down. It's my best single since returning to cubing. I wonder how fast it could've been if it was 10am!

I'm getting closer to the elusive sub-1:30 4x4 single (had 1:30.xx twice).

Learnt 4 new OLLs last week, and one which I re-learnt. This week, there's a couple of dot cases, and a few lines I want to learn. 

@Selkie, sorry to hear about your employment woes, but the settlement sounds nice. I just googled "how increase TPS cubing", following sunegate last week, and you're the top hit (well, a post of yours from 2011). Also, when I re-graduated from the race to sub-20 race recently, I used Google to find my original graduation, and I'm sure I originally joined the race the week you graduated, many moons ago!!!

@Logiqx, thanks for loving RUD algs as much as me! For every alg you provide on your website, I'm checking AlgDB for alternatives (just in case), and I'm yet to find an alg of yours that I will not be using. 

Everyone who likes big cubes - I'm considering getting a 5x5 and 6x6. Yuxin or QiYi for either? Answers on a postcard, please. Also, what brand Skewb. 

Also, concave, convex, or plane megaminx? The luxury of choice - the options on PuzzleStore.uk are multiform, and I have no idea. I have a megaminx, but it's hardly fast. I've never tried speedsolving the megaminx - in fact I haven't finished it. It's at a PLL kinda stage - I solved it intuitively up to the top layer, then used 3x3 logic to orient the last layer, but I need to look up the PLL stage. Does anyone have a preferred website for megaminx?


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## mark49152 (Nov 27, 2016)

pipkiksass said:


> Everyone who likes big cubes - I'm considering getting a 5x5 and 6x6. Yuxin or QiYi for either? Answers on a postcard, please.


For me, Yuxin 6x6 and Bochuang. Yuxin 5x5 is also great and very close to the Bochuang. I have not tried the new Qiyi puzzles though.


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## One Wheel (Nov 28, 2016)

pipkiksass said:


> Oooh, just has a 12.75 single with a PLL skip. Slowing down a bit (it's 11pm here), it's not a PB, but my single PBs are from 2014. Always nice to get times like that. My rolling Ao100 is consistently staying under 19 seconds, and my Ao1000 on CSTimer is creeping down. It's my best single since returning to cubing. I wonder how fast it could've been if it was 10am!
> 
> I'm getting closer to the elusive sub-1:30 4x4 single (had 1:30.xx twice).
> 
> Everyone who likes big cubes - I'm considering getting a 5x5 and 6x6. Yuxin or QiYi for either? Answers on a postcard, please.



How ?!? I have a handful of sub - 1:30 4x4 singles, averaging about 1:55, but 3x3 I'm still on a lucky 18.79 single from near a year ago, I think I was averaging about 40 at the time. I think my second best is at about 24.xx, averaging about 32-33 when I'm not messing up.

5x5 and 6x6: Weichuang is very fast, far better than a SS. With magnets or 1,000+ solves it has the potential to be positively sublime.
6x6 I don't have anything to compare to my Aoshi. I know it's outdated and much maligned, but it's still breaking in and getting better at ~300 solves.


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## earth2dan (Nov 28, 2016)

Woohoo! New 3x3 PB Single! 13.06. I haven't improved on my 3x3 PB in a looong time.  Here's the scramble:
L U D R' D B' L' U L B2 L2 U2 D L2 D2 R2 B2 L2 U F2

Regarding CN, I'm a hopeless white cross speedsolver. Yellow would be my next best, but all my times suffer drastically on any other cross colour.

Found a Mefferts Ghost Hedgehog at a toy store today and couldn't resist the purchase. I haven't scrambled it yet... I'm afraid. It sure is pretty though.



muchacho said:


> I've just made a Thunderclap MCR (Magnetized Columns for Roux)


Very cool! Magnet mods seem to be the next big thing. I'd love to try one of the Cubicle labs magnet cubes.



pipkiksass said:


> Everyone who likes big cubes - I'm considering getting a 5x5 and 6x6. Yuxin or QiYi for either? Answers on a postcard, please. Also, what brand Skewb.


You really can't go wrong with any of the big boys when it comes to 5x5 right now. The Yuxin, BoChuang, WeiChuang, and WuShuang are all fantastic 5x5's. My favourite today is the QiYi WuShuang. It's a little smaller than the others and I really like the way it feels. Stickerless colours on the QiYi are great too. I like my Yuxin 6x6, but I haven't tried the QiYi yet, and @Selkie has me really considering it


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## pglewis (Nov 28, 2016)

earth2dan said:


> Regarding CN, I'm a hopeless white cross speedsolver. Yellow would be my next best, but all my times suffer drastically on any other cross colour.



Same here. I've done thousands of solves exclusively with white cross and my recognition still isn't great, just not a natural there. Recently started to feel like I could transition to white/yellow, though. Last layer on any color is a piece of cake, cross is the hardest for me to leave white I think.



earth2dan said:


> My favourite today is the QiYi WuShuang. It's a little smaller than the others and I really like the way it feels. Stickerless colours on the QiYi are great too.



Also agree. With the usual caveat that what I do on 5x5 isn't quite speedsolving and the QiYi is the only one I have: I love it. If I were to pick up a second I'd get another. Very smooth "wsssssssssh"-y feel. Biggest complaint I've heard is that the outer layers tend to be a little slower/stiffer than the inner ones and some people don't care for that.


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## Logiqx (Nov 28, 2016)

pipkiksass said:


> @Logiqx, thanks for loving RUD algs as much as me! For every alg you provide on your website, I'm checking AlgDB for alternatives (just in case), and I'm yet to find an alg of yours that I will not be using.
> 
> Everyone who likes big cubes - I'm considering getting a 5x5 and 6x6. Yuxin or QiYi for either? Answers on a postcard, please. Also, what brand Skewb.
> 
> Also, concave, convex, or plane megaminx? The luxury of choice - the options on PuzzleStore.uk are multiform, and I have no idea. I have a megaminx, but it's hardly fast. I've never tried speedsolving the megaminx - in fact I haven't finished it. It's at a PLL kinda stage - I solved it intuitively up to the top layer, then used 3x3 logic to orient the last layer, but I need to look up the PLL stage. Does anyone have a preferred website for megaminx?



Nice 3x3 + 4x4 progress. Glad to hear you're liking my alg selections. 

Ignoring my old Shengshou 5x5 + MoYu AoChuang, I have the Yuxin + QiYi WuShuang. I absolutely loved the Yuxin when I got it and I used it as my main until I bought the QiYi. The QiYi is not as fast as the Yuxin but it is so much more stable and less prone to locks that it suits me better. The smaller size is nice and it has been my main since buying it.

I only have an ShengShou 6x6 + AoShi. The AoShi is nice enough for me to enjoy solving but it feels like there is plenty of room for improvement. Perhaps a new 6x6 can be on my Christmas list. I'm interesting in the views of others for 6x6!

I have a DaYan megaminx which I don't enjoy turning. I felt Chris' X-Man Galaxy at UKC and it was very nice. He explained that all variants of the puzzle are the same but with different caps / tiles which give the concave / convex / flat options. The concave tiles felt nice to me. Another item for my Christmas list!


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## mafergut (Nov 28, 2016)

@pipkiksass Wow! Congrats on the single. What's your PB single from 2014? You're progressing a lot also at 4x4. You'll be aiming for sub 1 min single in no time, you'll see 

Regarding 5x5 and 6x6 my mains are, at the moment the Yuxin 5x5 (I also have a BoChuang and a Cyclone Boys) and the Yuxin 6x6 (because it's my only 6x6) but all this discussion is making me want to buy the QiYis 

About Megaminx I disagree from most people. Maybe my X-Man Galaxy is not as good as it should or I just didn't even give it the chance to break in but I love my Shengshou Aurora Megaminx.

@earth2dan Now I envy you. Don't tell me that it's the one with Yellow stickers because then I'll envy you even more  I love the looks of the Mefferts Ghost Hedgehog. Also congrats on that PB single!!! And, regarding, CN, I think yellow is worth it, at least it gives you a second option for cross.

@muchacho Good luck with your own "magnet lab". Looking forward to hearing your feedback on those experiments. 

Also, in "other news" , I finally managed to get my first sub-3min 5x5 Ao12 at 2:59.07 but with a counting 3:18.xx so, still room for improvement. Got Ao50 down to 3:03.xx and Ao100 to 3:09.xx but running Ao100 is improving almost with every solve right now. Also beat my single but not by much (2:38.99).

And, in two days, I will be free again to cube a bit more. Wish me luck with my professional certification.


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## pipkiksass (Nov 28, 2016)

Thanks for the big cube opinions everybody, I'd do callouts, but I'm on my way to hospital and the It's a royal PITA on mobile! I'm leaning towards QiYi, because they seem to be producing fantastic puzzles at the moment.



Logiqx said:


> I felt Chris' X-Man Galaxy at UKC and it was very nice. He explained that all variants of the puzzle are the same but with different caps / tiles which give the concave / convex / flat options. The concave tiles felt nice to me. Another item for my Christmas list!



Yeah I noticed Dayan do one named after each planet in our solar system, with different shaped centres. I also spent some time studying the pictures of the QiYi X-man on puzzlestore.uk, and noticed that the centres are drastically different on plane/convex/concave, but what's "sculpture" all about?!

Edit: @mafergut, can't remember single on, but it's in my sig, think it's 11.xx.

Good luck with the qualification!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## muchacho (Nov 28, 2016)

@mafergut good luck!

Still not sure about the magnets, I've just lubed the cube and I might play with the tensions, but for now I'm getting very similar times. Probably a bit stronger magnets would have been better.

You are not the only one who prefers the Aurora over the Galaxy: @1:50


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## mafergut (Nov 28, 2016)

muchacho said:


> @mafergut good luck!
> 
> Still not sure about the magnets, I've just lubed the cube and I might play with the tensions, but for now I'm getting very similar times. Probably a bit stronger magnets would have been better.
> 
> You are not the only one who prefers the Aurora over the Galaxy: @1:50


Thanks for the video. Now I know that I'm not alone. I suffer the exact same problem with catches that Sophie mentions in one of her comment replies. Also, I was like "what?!?" with the thumb fingertrick at 1:20.


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## pipkiksass (Nov 28, 2016)

Just sitting in hospital for 6 hours - after the megaminx review I decided to while away the time watching cubing videos on YouTube. Watched Faz's white cross example solve vid, and he turns down a 2 move yellow cross, but then can't resist a 1 move green cross. In 5 solves!!! He says, in no uncertain terms, "be colour-neutral"!!!!!

I need to turn the timer off and do some slow turning practice anyway, but SO tempted to try full colour neutral. I'm ok on yellow, but have to really concentrate on each F2L pair on other colours. Maybe slow turning practice and CN could go hand in hand???

This week, at least 4 more OLLs, plus PLL drills, NO timed solves (I'll do 12 as alumnus in race to sub-20, that's it). If anyone sees me posting 3x3 times, tell me off!!!

Edit: home from hospital, thought I'd throw in the Faz vid...
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Selkie (Nov 28, 2016)

@earth2dan - Thank you sir. I will be doing some 6x6 this afternoon filmed to see if I can get myself my first sub 3:30 solve, fingers crossed! Also congratulations on the PB single 

@pglewis - Congratulations on the sub 30, great milestone to get under your belt 

@muchacho - Those are the exact two Square-1 cube shape guides I am going from 

@kbrune - I use Twisty Timer

@pipkiksass - Many moons ago indeed, it has taken a long, LONG time to go from sub 20 to sub 15.5  As for which X-Man Galaxy Megaminx I like the sculptured but if you go for the "Luxurious Suit" you will get one puzzles but all the different tile sets for plane, concave etc etc. As for 5x5 and 6x6 you cannot go far wrong with Qiyi for both. The Qiyi 5x5 has not quite replaced my Yuxin as main but it is very close. The Qiyi 6x6 is just epic.


I just wanted to say a huge, HUGE thanks to my fellow cubing brethren on here. Your support and words of encouragement over the course of the last couple of difficult weeks has been massively appreciated and very moving and has genuinely helped. Most of the emotional side has gone and I just want to get this redundancy signed off so I can get on with the rest of my life now


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## Selkie (Nov 28, 2016)

Sorry did not manage a sub 3:30 6x6 single but did get this Ao5 on film. Will edit and upload and link soon 

Average of 5: 3:46.01
1. 3:54.72 ...
2. 3:44.42 ...
3. (4:07.77) ...
4. (3:36.80) ...
5. 3:38.90 ...


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## Selkie (Nov 28, 2016)

Selkie said:


> Sorry did not manage a sub 3:30 6x6 single but did get this Ao5 on film. Will edit and upload and link soon
> 
> Average of 5: 3:46.01
> 1. 3:54.72 ...
> ...


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## Shaky Hands (Nov 28, 2016)

Nice solving @Selkie. Just looking at your approach to solving here and it seems to generally be the same approach to mine other than your much faster recognition and TPS.

Two things I think we do differently, not that I think what I do is any better:
1. When I'm commutating (is that a word?) the L2C, I always position the cubie so that it is one of the 4 closest to the top left corner. This just helps me know quickly how to resolve the case. Admittedly repositioning this results in some wasted moves.
2. You seem to rotate the orientation when doing the L4E, so you're solving in the M layer rather than the E layer. Tried this a few times in the past, but it threw me off and I messed up some earlier work on the Centres.

I got 2 PB singles at 6x6 today, plus PB Ao5 and Ao12:

5:59.81
5:58.95
5:35.20
5:15.98
5:39.88
5:08.52 - PB single
6:01.09
6:10.60
5:04.64 - PB single
5:10.29 - PB Ao5 for this and previous 4 solves (5:26.63)
5:19.32
5:57.85 - PB Ao12 (5:36.69)

My PB is now <5 seconds off the UK Average Cut for 6x6, so I'm actually closer to the cut for 6x6 than I am with 5x5! All times here are below my comp PB for 6x6 too. Fingers crossed for Birmingham, for which I ought to do a bit of 7x7 practice too.


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## mafergut (Nov 28, 2016)

I just dropped 10 seconds off my 5x5 PB single and got my first sub 2:30 with a 2:28.93  L4E was a piece of cake, to be honest.


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## Selkie (Nov 28, 2016)

@Shaky Hands - That is some great improvement Andy. You really are making great progress on 4x4, 5x5 and 6x6 and all getting so close to average cut. When you think my official mean for 6x6 is 5:17.00 and that was at Exeter you can see how quickly progress can be made. Going to keep at 6x6 as it would be great to get sub 4:00 mean at Birmingham next month.

@mafergut - Very nice single and -10 seonds! Thats smashed


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## Shaky Hands (Nov 28, 2016)

Fantastic milestone achieved there @mafergut, well done.


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## pglewis (Nov 28, 2016)

It's Personal Best Central up in here! I fear omitting one or two individually so congrats all around. 

@pipkiksass: I actually _just_ went through that vid again about a week and a half ago, mostly watching his F2L choices. I was happily surprised that I would have handled the individual pairs in the first three solves the exact same way (doubtful I'm wise enough to choose the order he solved them, though).


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## pipkiksass (Nov 28, 2016)

pglewis said:


> I was happily surprised that I would have handled the individual pairs in the first three solves the exact same way (doubtful I'm wise enough to choose the order he solved them, though).



^^THIS, so totally, massively this! With me, after F2L 1 I pick the first thing I see. Feliks knows where at least 2 of the remaining pairs are before he finishes #1, and can cherry pick the one which gives him the best case for 3 and then 4.

Simultaneously both depressing and inspiring!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## pglewis (Nov 28, 2016)

Selkie said:


>



Man, not surprising I guess but 6x6 centers is a lot of busy-work. You can solve anything at least two to my one, probably including scrambling between, but I still want to chastise you for peeking at the timer .


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## pglewis (Nov 28, 2016)

Back to comp again on Jan 7th. No way I'll be near 5x5 cutoff by then but maybe I should pick up and relearn Pyraminx in the interim to have a third event.


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## Jason Green (Nov 28, 2016)

pglewis said:


> Back to comp again on Jan 7th. No way I'll be near 5x5 cutoff by then but maybe I should pick up and relearn Pyraminx in the interim to have a third event.


Pyraminx and Skewb can both be learned in no time. 

@Selkie, I think I have failed in ever posting some encouragement on your situation. I'm sorry for that, I'm glad the package is working out so nice for you! I'm a bit jealous.  I lost a job many years ago, I won't compare that to you because at the time I was young, single, and living with my parents after college. Anyway, I'm sure you'll rock the job hunt! Are you considering taking a cube for interviews? If you're keen to move to Texas let me know, I'd try my best to find you a spot in software for the railroad. 

I must admit for the first time since July 2015 I'm kind of transitioning to skimming the thread now. I feel a bit guilty haha. I'm not sure what caused the change, maybe being busy over the holiday last week and just feeling like it would be less stress if I did not worry about keeping up as much. Anyway, I'm still around and still practicing, just wanted to mention that.


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## teacher77 (Nov 29, 2016)

OMG !! My first sub-20 single ! And it's an 18.45 s !


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## Selkie (Nov 29, 2016)

@pglewis - Yup glancing at the timer is a horrible habit. It is not like the clock needs look ahead  More for 6x6 I am interested in splits. Times for centres, F8E pairing, L4E Pairing and 3x3 stage but every time I glance up I do lose time granted.

@Jason Green - Do not worry mate, it is old news now haha. Sub 20 is a huge milestone and takes a lot of effort o achieve. I do not know many solvers who have not eased up a bit after attaining it, especially us older solvers. Don't feel guilty that cubing has gone from taking most of your spare time to acceptable levels of spare time 

@teacher77 - So many great milestones in recent days. Nice way to skip not only the 19's but the high 18s too. Congratulations.


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## pipkiksass (Nov 29, 2016)

OK, so I know I said no timed solves this week, but I was looking back at my member intro thread, out of curiosity, and I posted an Ao5 video at the time, a 25.45 Ao5 (13th April 2013):






I then went to my YouTube account (unused in a LONG time), and found a 17.62 Ao5 from 12 months later (21st April 2014)






Yes, the first solve is a +2, but it's out of the Ao5 anyway as slowest solve. Anyway, I thought I'd film a few solves today and see how things have come on. I only did 5 solves, but 18.22 for first 5 solves of the day is respectable for me. I'm very confident I could get a sub-18 Ao5 on camera. 

Also, any tips on raising the camera angle would be appreciated. This is basically a video of my hand, with a few glipses of cube. As a snapshot of how I'm getting on, the only sup-20 (solve 3 - 20.38 R' B R2 D L B L2 B2 R' B F2 U B2 U L2 U2 F2 U' L2 B2) was a TOTAL fail at cross>F2L stage, and 2-look OLL.








Spoiler: times



Generated By csTimer on 2016-11-29
solves/total: 5/5

single
best: 16.83
worst: 20.38

mean of 3
current: 18.51 (σ = 1.63)
best: 18.51 (σ = 1.63)

avg of 5
current: 17.96 (σ = 0.69)
best: 17.96 (σ = 0.69)

Average: 17.96 (σ = 0.69)
Mean: 18.22

Time List:
1. 16.83 D F2 U' R2 B' D' F B' D F2 L2 F2 U2 R' U2 F2 R B2 D2 L' 
2. 18.73 F L2 U B2 D2 B2 L2 B2 D B2 R2 U R' U' F' R' U' L2 R2 F' D 
3. 20.38 R' B R2 D L B L2 B2 R' B F2 U B2 U L2 U2 F2 U' L2 B2 
4. 17.72 B2 D F2 D B2 D R2 U' B2 F R2 U' B L2 F' R U B' D 
5. 17.42 L U' R U2 R2 F' B' R' B U2 R2 L2 D' B2 R2 U B2 U' B2 R'



Anyway, back to slow-turning, CN practice, and learning OLLs...


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## Selkie (Nov 29, 2016)

@pipkiksass - Nice comparison and how well you have come on. I have to confess I have had a look on my YouTube and found a 26.22 Ao12 on there  As for camera angle. I use a budget tripod raised to about 5' tall, you can get them from Amazon for less than £20. That will give the elevation to get above your hands.


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## phreaker (Nov 29, 2016)

Selkie said:


> @pglewis - Yup glancing at the timer is a horrible habit. It is not like the clock needs look ahead  More for 6x6 I am interested in splits. Times for centres, F8E pairing, L4E Pairing and 3x3 stage but every time I glance up I do lose time granted.



That's why I have cstimer just display "solve" . I also configure my phone timer to just display seconds during the solve. Humans see motion out of the corner of our eyes, and it naturally attracts us. When I get a real stackmat timer, I'm hoping because it is down low, I won't pay attention, or I'll be better at focusing.


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## phreaker (Nov 29, 2016)

New 2H PB: 50.50.

All but N(a/b) of PLL learned, so pretty much full PLL. Recognition is still slow, the G(a/b/c/d) perms are a bit slow, still, in that I'm thinking them through more than I'd like. I need to more slow turning solves, and working on piece tracking during eoline, memorizing eoline, etc.

My biggest pauses are during EOLine, and EOLine -> F2L, those need to get cleaned up. I have 1 more ZZFL piece to get down... that will slow me if I work on it constantly... Then speed me once I add it.

Interestingly, my OH times are only about 10s off my 2H. So I suspect, any practice will help at this point.

I'm also interested in how magnets will impact some of my favorite types of cubes. So I got some. Yes, I know hardware isn't handing me back, but, playing with hardware is fun.


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## Shaky Hands (Nov 29, 2016)

phreaker said:


> When I get a real stackmat timer, I'm hoping because it is down low, I won't pay attention, or I'll be better at focusing.



I got myself a stackmat timer, but ended up doing my solves on a computer timer 99% of the time. I just find it easier to use a timer that will generate scrambles in the same place.


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## Selkie (Nov 29, 2016)

Nearly forgot the second unboxing from last week that includes the X-Man Design Luxurious Suit (Multiple tile sets) and the Moyu WeiShi 6x6:-


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## phreaker (Nov 29, 2016)

Shaky Hands said:


> I got myself a stackmat timer, but ended up doing my solves on a computer timer 99% of the time. I just find it easier to use a timer that will generate scrambles in the same place.



One step ahead... I'm going to get a cable to hook it into my laptop. They shouldn't be too expensive, from what I understand.


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## phreaker (Nov 29, 2016)

Selkie said:


> Nearly forgot the second unboxing from last week that includes the X-Man Design Luxurious Suit (Multiple tile sets) and the Moyu WeiShi 6x6:-



Can you tell me if the "Luxurious" set includes a black set of sculpted tiles?


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## Shaky Hands (Nov 29, 2016)

phreaker said:


> One step ahead... I'm going to get a cable to hook it into my laptop. They shouldn't be too expensive, from what I understand.



Cool, good luck.


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## Selkie (Nov 29, 2016)

phreaker said:


> Can you tell me if the "Luxurious" set includes a black set of sculpted tiles?



Unfortunately mine appears to have a set of convex tiles and three sets of plane tiles! Perhaps someone packaging in the factory had a little too much liquid lunch lol


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## mafergut (Nov 29, 2016)

phreaker said:


> One step ahead... I'm going to get a cable to hook it into my laptop. They shouldn't be too expensive, from what I understand.


I did that... and I could not make it work. Same happens to a lot of people but you can try, as you will only be wasting like $5 or so in cables.


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## muchacho (Nov 29, 2016)

phreaker said:


> Can you tell me if the "Luxurious" set includes a black set of sculpted tiles?


Mine did. I bought it also at thepuzzlestore.uk.


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## Shaky Hands (Nov 29, 2016)

Selkie said:


> Nearly forgot the second unboxing from last week that includes the X-Man Design Luxurious Suit (Multiple tile sets) and the Moyu WeiShi 6x6:-



I'm somewhat relieved you've given me a heads-up regarding the size of the WeiShi before I ordered one. The stability does sounds promising though. Maybe one day I'll splash some cash on it...


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## Shaky Hands (Nov 29, 2016)

Just got another 6x6 PB single but this is my first ever within the UK cut - *4:54.37*. Finished with PLL parity into a T-perm. Amazed that I've managed to get a 6x6 PB single under the UK cut before I've managed to get one for 5x5.

Will be difficult to repeat this at the comp, but am feeling like I've just passed a massive barrier. Heading out to meet pals and will celebrate with a pint.


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## Selkie (Nov 29, 2016)

phreaker said:


> Can you tell me if the "Luxurious" set includes a black set of sculpted tiles?





muchacho said:


> Mine did. I bought it also at thepuzzlestore.uk.



Already been in touch with Marty who will get me some spare tiles from Qiyi. He also has the WuQue's on order, being Qiyi's new 4x4. Cannot wait for that one.

@Shaky Hands - What an awesome single, so pleased for you mate and getting that before the 5x5 one shows great aptitude for larger puzzles  Yup The WeiShi is huge mate. Oh, oh so stable but huge. Unfortunately I just cant solve on black anymore and will have the black one up for sale at Brum Open. Just about to post it on the comp thread.


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## mafergut (Nov 29, 2016)

@Shaky Hands Wow! Superb single. I'm still a noob at 6x6 with probably not more than 20 solves on my belt on the Yuxin 6x6 but my best time is like 7:20.xx at the moment  I hope to improve but sub-5 seems so far from possible for me right now. What's your 5x5 PB and normal UK cut?

@Selkie, are you going to buy every cube that comes out?  Now, seriously, I would consider buying the WuQue if it was 60mm so, hoping for a mini version of it


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## Shaky Hands (Nov 29, 2016)

mafergut said:


> @Shaky Hands Wow! Superb single. I'm still a noob at 6x6 with probably not more than 20 solves on my belt on the Yuxin 6x6 but my best time is like 7:20.xx at the moment  I hope to improve but sub-5 seems so far from possible for me right now. What's your 5x5 PB and normal UK cut?
> ut?



Thanks. The usual UK average cut is 2:30. I think my PB at home is the 2:36.55 I got in a recent 5x5 Race thread so I'm close to it.

Chris is correct when he says that it's possible to make sudden and significant improvements at 6x6. Good luck with your own efforts at this puzzle.


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## pglewis (Nov 29, 2016)

What _is_ it about November? 3x3 single WR (or three) and PBs for everyone! 

@teacher77: Congrats on the milestone! Any idea what was different about that solve or what you've been working on that got you there? 

@Jason Green: Yeah, I figured out Pyraminx on my own as a teenager but haven't touched one since. I don't think I'm gonna mess with Skewb before the comp even though I have one, I'll save that debut for later. A lot of work reaching sub 20, not to mention getting an official one, so I can't blame you one bit for skimming the thread for a while . 

@pipkiksass: Nice bit of nostalgia. Is that a Zhanchi in the first vid? Looks like it but I wasn't sure if the logo was right. 



phreaker said:


> That's why I have cstimer just display "solve" .



How can I do this? I've seen it in other peoples' vids but could not find the option for the life of me. 



Shaky Hands said:


> I got myself a stackmat timer, but ended up doing my solves on a computer timer 99% of the time. I just find it easier to use a timer that will generate scrambles in the same place.



I've been comfortable just using keyboard entry in csTimer with the Stackmat, pretty quick to enter 'em with the 10-key and I still get the stats and scrambles. Also, just... wow on the 6x6 progress



Selkie said:


> He also has the WuQue's on order, being Qiyi's new 4x4. Cannot wait for that one.



I have a stickerless WuQue on pre-order. Also would prefer a 60mm version but I just had to get in early to see if I like it as much as the 5x5.


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## phreaker (Nov 29, 2016)

Selkie said:


> Unfortunately mine appears to have a set of convex tiles and three sets of plane tiles! Perhaps someone packaging in the factory had a little too much liquid lunch lol


Bummer... sounds like you need to talk to someone about a refund .


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## newtonbase (Nov 29, 2016)

Well done @Shaky Hands Your success is tempting me to get a decent 6x6 but maybe I should get decent at 5x5 first? I've probably done fewer than 5 solves on 6x6.


pglewis said:


> What _is_ it about November? 3x3 single WR (or three) and PBs for everyone!


My single is nearly a year old and I think I set my average on Xmas day but I'm game for joining the November PB club.


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## phreaker (Nov 29, 2016)

pglewis said:


> How can I do this? I've seen it in other peoples' vids but could not find the option for the life of me.
> 
> 
> 
> I've been comfortable just using keyboard entry in csTimer with the Stackmat, pretty quick to enter 'em with the 10-key and I still get the stats and scrambles. Also, just... wow on the 6x6 progress



Option -> Timer -> Update change it to none.


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## mafergut (Nov 29, 2016)

Shaky Hands said:


> Thanks. The usual UK average cut is 2:30. I think my PB at home is the 2:36.55 I got in a recent 5x5 Race thread so I'm close to it.
> 
> Chris is correct when he says that it's possible to make sudden and significant improvements at 6x6. Good luck with your own efforts at this puzzle.


I'm sure that sub 2:30 at 5x5 is also within reach for you. You are faster than me on average at 5x5 and, all of a sudden, I dropped 10 seconds my PB single the other day and got (barely) below 2:30 so if I could you also can.

I checked my 6x6 session on csTimer with all the times I got since I bought the Yuxin 6x6 and I lied to you  I have solved it 27 seven times already. Best Ao5 in the session is 7:59.xx so I'm super-duper-fast 

Turning with so much care to avoid popping that dang thing is not the best way to get good times. But I'm not going to put all the blame into slow turning, I have to admit that my center building on anything larger than a 5x5 is basic at best, even at 5x5 (and 4x4) I have plenty of room for improvement.


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## pipkiksass (Nov 29, 2016)

@pglewis, it's a Guhong v2, even more nostalgic!!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## mafergut (Nov 29, 2016)

pipkiksass said:


> @pglewis, it's a Guhong v2, even more nostalgic!!!


Thought about buying a Guhong for my collection but, as I started speedcubing with a Zhanchi in late 2013, it would not be because of nostalgia, just because I must to buy them all  But it's going to end up in a drawer with all my unused puzzles so it's a bit of a waste.


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## phreaker (Nov 29, 2016)

muchacho said:


> Mine did. I bought it also at thepuzzlestore.uk.


Maybe it is worth getting one of those then. I'd kill to replace purple or blue with black. Otherwise I really like that mega.


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## newtonbase (Nov 29, 2016)

Just did a 7x7 solve and it must have taken half an hour. It was painful.


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## chtiger (Nov 30, 2016)

I'll add to the November PB club. Sometime last week, I had a very unexpected 3x3 single PB of 12.88. Previous best was a LL skip 13.17, which was probably last year. This one had a full LL, but a very easy F2L. Easy cross with accidental x-cross and 2 F2L pairs already paired up.


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## Jason Green (Nov 30, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> Just did a 7x7 solve and it must have taken half an hour. It was painful.


Speaking of painful, check out this video of me showing how I did the Petrus method (if you like torture). This was literally the night a kid at church peaked my interest in cubes again in 2015. I posted a 46 second solve video later that month. I had no clue what I was doing hardly, like putting in my last slot I just fumble around until it's there. Hahaha


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## One Wheel (Nov 30, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> Just did a 7x7 solve and it must have taken half an hour. It was painful.


My first 6x6 solve I had to look up a tutorial on L2C. Leaving the timer running while I watched the tutorial didn't change the time much on a percentage basis, as I recall.


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## newtonbase (Nov 30, 2016)

One Wheel said:


> My first 6x6 solve I had to look up a tutorial on L2C. Leaving the timer running while I watched the tutorial didn't change the time much on a percentage basis, as I recall.


I'd forgotten most of the L2C techniques so ended up using far too many commutators but it was finding edge pieces that was most excruciating.


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## newtonbase (Nov 30, 2016)

Jason Green said:


> Speaking of painful, check out this video of me showing how I did the Petrus method (if you like torture). This was literally the night a kid at church peaked my interest in cubes again in 2015. I posted a 46 second video later that month. I had no clue what I was doing hardly, like putting in my last slot I just fumble around until it's there. Hahaha


That was quite a solve!


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## Shaky Hands (Nov 30, 2016)

mafergut said:


> I'm sure that sub 2:30 at 5x5 is also within reach for you. You are faster than me on average at 5x5 and, all of a sudden, I dropped 10 seconds my PB single the other day and got (barely) below 2:30 so if I could you also can.
> 
> I checked my 6x6 session on csTimer with all the times I got since I bought the Yuxin 6x6 and I lied to you  I have solved it 27 seven times already. Best Ao5 in the session is 7:59.xx so I'm super-duper-fast



Thanks, yes I think 5x5 is within reach. A part of me feels that after 1000+ timed solves I should be there already! Did some further checking and my 5x5 PB is actually 2:32.xx so I'm closer than I realised.

For 6x6, after 27 solves my best Ao5 was 9:02.71 so you're well ahead of where I was with that amount of practice.



newtonebase said:


> Just did a 7x7 solve and it must have taken half an hour. It was painful.



For cubes that big it takes quite a while to learn the best way to handle a lot of the cases. I haven't solved a 7x7 for a few weeks now and ought to get back in the groove with that.



Jason Green said:


> Speaking of painful, check out this video of me showing how I did the Petrus method (if you like torture). This was literally the night a kid at church peaked my interest in cubes again in 2015. I posted a 46 second video later that month. I had no clue what I was doing hardly, like putting in my last slot I just fumble around until it's there. Hahaha



Entertaining! I'm often tempted to learn some basic Petrus for FMC. I'm guessing it would be fairly simple to be colour-neutral on Petrus from the start for something like FMC where it's not an actual speedsolve.


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## SenorJuan (Nov 30, 2016)

You don't need to be colour-neutral for FMC, you just scramble the cube with whatever colour orientation/rotation takes your fancy. As long as the solution ends up solving the cube, (ie. do the scramble followed by your solution, and you end up with a solved cube) it counts.


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## pipkiksass (Nov 30, 2016)

So I tried propping my cube up on a cereal box on the kitchen counter, because my wife would kill me if I bought a tripod just to record myself cubing (she's so totally supportive of cubing as a hobby in general #cough cough#).

Here's an alternative camera angle, let me know what you think:






A reasonable (17.50) Ao5. Here's my 2 cents, please feel free to chime in:

1. 18.14 U2 F D2 L2 F R2 B D2 U2 B D R' U' R2 U F2 U' F L B - 2 look OLL, otherwise just a few stalls on F2L, not horrendous.
2. 16.73 B2 L2 F2 D2 L2 F2 D' R2 B2 D2 L B2 F' L2 U' B2 R2 - 2 look OLL, saved from obscurity by PLL skip. Average F2L.
3. (14.49) L2 U F2 D2 B2 D L2 B2 U2 R B' U' R2 D2 B U2 L' B2 R2 - 1 look OLL, easy cross, predictably fast - this is how all solves should be!!!
4. 17.62 D' B2 F2 D L2 D U2 R2 B2 U' R2 L' D' R2 U F' D2 U' B U' L' - 2 look OLL...
5. (18.61) R' F D2 R' L U R' U R2 F D B2 D2 B2 U' L2 D R2 L2 - mis-inserted 2 cross edges, but somehow still brought it in sub-19!

And that REALLY is it, no more timer for me this week!!!!

Things to work on (as if I didn't already know) include learn OLL (only 1 look in this Ao5 was sub-15!) and work on fluidity in F2L. Blind cross practice also...


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## pglewis (Nov 30, 2016)

Playing musical chairs with my main. After the Valk broke in I loosened my backup Thunderclap because I was adjusting to the faster turning. Now the Valk has gotten gummy/sluggish after a couple weeks. Gave it a quarter turn all around last night but it's going to need more (and/or lube). I like the better stability of the Valk but the stock Thunderclap is behaving nicely.


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## newtonbase (Nov 30, 2016)

pglewis said:


> Playing musical chairs with my main. After the Valk broke in I loosened my backup Thunderclap because I was adjusting to the faster turning. Now the Valk has gotten gummy/sluggish after a couple weeks. Gave it a quarter turn all around last night but it's going to need more (and/or lube). I like the better stability of the Valk but the stock Thunderclap is behaving nicely.


The ever reliable Thunderclap.


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## newtonbase (Nov 30, 2016)

Manchester on 14/15th January anyone? Registration is open. Not sure if I can go but I've put my name down. Will speak to the wife when I catch her in a good mood. 
http://www.ukca.org/competitions/upcoming-competitions/manchester-open-2017


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## Shaky Hands (Nov 30, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> Manchester on 14/15th January anyone? Registration is open. Not sure if I can go but I've put my name down. Will speak to the wife when I catch her in a good mood.
> http://www.ukca.org/competitions/upcoming-competitions/manchester-open-2017



Had some provisional plans for that weekend as I'd figured a comp was more likely for the end of January than mid-January, so uncertain if I can get to this one. Will be there if practical to do so. There's a high capacity, so won't rush to register just yet. Good luck with Mrs Base.


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## mark49152 (Dec 1, 2016)

Registered for Manchester but am not sure I can make it, will see nearer the time. I might drop by just for the BLD events.


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## pglewis (Dec 1, 2016)

Weird night with the timer. I should have been in bed, certainly not cubing and certainly not timing. Got struck by lightning twice in an inconsistent ao12 though: a 23.33 out of the blue, anti-sune and U perm (still with my goofy S slices, at that). Then the final solve landed 29.99, very pedestrian F2L ending in a full LL skip. I can only recall a handful of LL skips ever, too bad it was wasted there lol. I think that 23 is gonna stand for a while, ridiculous outlier. 



Spoiler: Spoiler: times



Average: 39.34 (σ = 5.83)
Mean: 39.02

Time List:
1. 33.32 U2 F' D L F R' D F U2 B' U2 F2 L' D2 R' F2 B2 L' F2 L2
2. 44.82 D2 R' D2 F2 L2 D2 L' U2 L' B2 R2 U' L' U R' U2 B' D2 F D'
3. 44.89 U2 F2 L2 F D2 L U R' U2 R2 U2 B R2 F2 R2 L2 F' L2 U2 D
4. 23.33 D' L' U B2 L U2 L D' F' L2 U' B2 D F2 B2 D' R2 L
5. 51.46 F U L2 B2 L2 B2 D' U2 L2 R2 F' L D B L B2 D2 L2 F2
6. 48.11 D2 B F U2 L2 B' L2 D2 B R2 F' R D2 U' F2 D R B F' D2
7. 40.10 D L2 B2 U' F2 D' R2 D U' L U' R2 D' L2 B' D' R' U2 B2
8. 34.54 D2 R' U2 R2 D2 R' U2 R' B2 R2 D' R B' D R' U L' F2 U2
9. 35.68 U2 B' L2 F' R2 B L2 U2 F2 R2 D' L2 R D R F2 L' B L
10. 41.97 U2 R F L2 B' L2 U' D R' F' B2 D F2 U F2 L2 D' F2 U' R2
11. 39.97 D2 R2 F2 D R2 B2 D2 U' R' U R2 F' D' B2 U' B2 L2 D2
12. 29.99 L B2 D2 L' F2 L D2 L2 D2 F2 L2 F D' L B F2 U' F2 U' L' R


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## Selkie (Dec 1, 2016)

@pipkiksass - Much better angle 

@newtonbase - Manchester Open is unlikely for me as attending Birmingham Open for both days in a fortnight. Also might be walking straight from redundancy on 30th December straight into a three month contract.

@pglewis - Lovely single!

Going to try and get a sub 6 minute mean on film today. Got a 6:04.xy the other day


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## Shaky Hands (Dec 1, 2016)

Selkie said:


> Going to try and get a sub 6 minute mean on film today. Got a 6:04.xy the other day



At 7x7? Nice. I managed a 7:43.07 yesterday which I assume is my PB for this.


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## pipkiksass (Dec 1, 2016)

@Selkie, congrats on landing the contract, and enjoy the tax benefits of the redundancy package!!! [emoji6] I'm torn on Yuxin vs QiYi for 6x6 because I have small hands. Following your unboxing vid, the Yuxin looks a good size for me but the QiYi sounds the better cube... not really sure the extra few mm would really make a difference...

While I'm exploiting your expertise, I don't suppose you could make a 2 minute vid about megaminx notation? I'm trying to get in to it, but can't find a good guide that adequately explains the basic notation. I can solve up to and including LL edge orientation intuitively, but from there I'm shafted!! I've been trying to use Odder's LL alg sheet (I'd link it, but I'm on mobile), but any alternative sources of mega-info would be greatly appreciated. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## mafergut (Dec 1, 2016)

Hi guys. I finally passed yesterday my professional assessment in my company so no more weekends studying for me! I can have a bit more time for cubing again. On the other hand speedsolving forum is now on my company's proxy content filter black list so I cannot access the page any more from my corporate laptop. I'm writing this on Tapatalk. I will have to make use of my own desktop computer that I haven't used for months. [emoji17] 

Sent from my Nexus 4 with Tapatalk


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## pipkiksass (Dec 1, 2016)

mafergut said:


> I finally passed yesterday my professional assessment... speedsolving forum is now on my company's proxy content filter black list



Good news... then bad news!!! Congrats anyway, using Tapatalk isn't so bad.

Just got my first sub-1:30 4x4 solve in 1:24.890, hooray!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Selkie (Dec 1, 2016)

@Shaky Hands - Andy, yes mate, 7x7. Took a few warm up solves this weather but got it:-

7x7 mo3: 5:49.64
5:53.83, 5:51.29, 5:43.79
Just editing the video and will upload and link soon. PB single and mean.

@pipkiksass - Thank you, it is not landed yet and there is a certain clause in my contract that needs agreeing to be removed if I am to take it but nice as the contract came to me, not me to it. To be fair I wanted to do contract for a year or two after the redundancy so hopefully will work out for the best. Whilst a break would be very welcome I am more eager to start work immediately.

Yes, more than happy to make a megaminx video but will probably be tomorrow if that is ok? Will also try and find the resources I first used. I started at very beginner LL (commutators for corner orientation as well as corner permutation) to what is now beginner. Essentially what I do now is:-

EO: F(R U R' U')F' and its inverse
CO: Odders guide - Dont need to learn them all. Sune/ASune combos
EP: J Perm and Y Perm from 3x3, (R2 U2 R2' U R2 U2 R2') and its inverse
CP: Commutators

@mafergut - Congratulations on the work assessment


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## newtonbase (Dec 1, 2016)

Selkie said:


> @newtonbase - Manchester Open is unlikely for me as attending Birmingham Open for both days in a fortnight. Also might be walking straight from redundancy on 30th December straight into a three month contract.


Good luck with that. 



pipkiksass said:


> I'm trying to get in to it, but can't find a good guide that adequately explains the basic notation. I


I like this very concise video 






mafergut said:


> Hi guys. I finally passed yesterday my professional assessment in my company


Congratulations


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## mafergut (Dec 1, 2016)

Thank you all guys. I still hate the limitations of the mobile keyboard and screen. I will have to find a solution. I don't plan on running the race to sub 15 from Tapatalk [emoji2]

Sent from my Nexus 4 with Tapatalk


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## Selkie (Dec 1, 2016)

Selkie said:


> 7x7 mo3: 5:49.64
> 5:53.83, 5:51.29, 5:43.79
> Just editing the video and will upload and link soon. PB single and mean.


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## pglewis (Dec 1, 2016)

Selkie said:


> @pglewis - Lovely single!



Thanks! Sometimes I have a decent feel for time, this one was a shocker. I was expecting a low 30, maybe another high 20. Looked down at the timer and immediately, "What?! What?! Yes!".


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## Dean (Dec 1, 2016)

Guessing I should be posting my question in here seeing as I'm 44...

I clocked what should be a new PB earlier 16.912 but it felt too much like a fluke. My PB is 23.3 and I average around 28-30sec.

I'm pretty honest with myself and couldn't believe it, easy cross & f2l followed by oll and U perm.

Would you acknowledge the lucky PB or stick with the fact you're not quite a sub-20 cuber yet ... and forget the one-time lucky solve?


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## CLL Smooth (Dec 1, 2016)

Dean said:


> Guessing I should be posting my question in here seeing as I'm 44...
> 
> I clocked what should be a new PB earlier 16.912 but it felt too much like a fluke. My PB is 23.3 and I average around 28-30sec.
> 
> ...


I'd say count the pb single, but don't call yourself a sub-20 solver until you average sub-20. Congrats on the pb!


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## pglewis (Dec 1, 2016)

Dean said:


> Guessing I should be posting my question in here seeing as I'm 44...
> 
> I clocked what should be a new PB earlier 16.912 but it felt too much like a fluke. My PB is 23.3 and I average around 28-30sec.
> 
> ...



If the scramble was generated by a legit scramble generator you bet I'm gonna count it as a PB. Getting lucky is not a crime! I very rarely hand-scramble if I'm timing in the off chance a good one pops up I don't want it to feel tainted in any way. I'm also strict with myself about not doing extended inspection while timing, and even randomly rotate the cube after scrambling so I don't know the orientation. I try to keep my timed sessions as close to comp as possible. My 23 was "lucky" for me given that I'm really only averaging high 30s when warmed up still. But singles get lucky sometimes.


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## Selkie (Dec 1, 2016)

Dean said:


> Guessing I should be posting my question in here seeing as I'm 44...
> 
> I clocked what should be a new PB earlier 16.912 but it felt too much like a fluke. My PB is 23.3 and I average around 28-30sec.
> 
> ...



Hi @Dean and welcome to the thread. I would count a solve lucky if I unintentionally skipped a step, e.g. accidental x-cross when going for cross, skipped OLL or skipped PLL but I wouldn't count it as lucky if the OLL skip for instance is forced (Winter variation, VLS). Sounds like you didnt skip so I would call that a fullstep PB. I count different PBs for "lucky" and "fullstep".

I have an 8.23 lucky single and average sub 15.5s overall but I still claimed it


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## Jason Green (Dec 2, 2016)

mafergut said:


> On the other hand speedsolving forum is now on my company's proxy content filter black list so I cannot access the page any more from my corporate laptop. I'm writing this on Tapatalk. I will have to make use of my own desktop computer that I haven't used for months. [emoji17]
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 4 with Tapatalk



99% of my reading and posts are from Tapatalk, but I agree running a race thread would not be cool. 




Dean said:


> Guessing I should be posting my question in here seeing as I'm 44...
> 
> I clocked what should be a new PB earlier 16.912 but it felt too much like a fluke. My PB is 23.3 and I average around 28-30sec.
> 
> ...



All my PBs for some time have been lucky. I did have one of my top three solves a 12.34 last night, and had a new best ao50 18.74. I feel like I should be sub 19 soon, but in reality in still over 19.5 mostly. I'm only about 2/3 of solves sub 20 still, but about 90% sub 21. I still don't want to think of myself as "globally" sub 20 until I'm about 90% of the solves sub 20. 

And welcome!



Selkie said:


> Hi @Dean and welcome to the thread. I would count a solve lucky if I unintentionally skipped a step, e.g. accidental x-cross when going for cross, skipped OLL or skipped PLL but I wouldn't count it as lucky if the OLL skip for instance is forced (Winter variation, VLS). Sounds like you didnt skip so I would call that a fullstep PB. I count different PBs for "lucky" and "fullstep".
> 
> I have an 8.23 lucky single and average sub 15.5s overall but I still claimed it



They don't have different categories for world records, so I don't think of them separate either.  I don't know what my PB full step is. I'm pretty sure 14 at most, maybe a 13.


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## h2f (Dec 2, 2016)

Is it a good sign to break a pb ao100 by 0.02 a day before competition? It looks like I used to my new Valk3.


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## efattah (Dec 3, 2016)

Many people have single solve PB's that just a bit more than half of their global average (avg x 0.55 or avg x 0.60). So you if you average 30 seconds, a 16 second single solve is actually what is expected for a lucky single.


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## moralsh (Dec 3, 2016)

h2f said:


> Is it a good sign to break a pb ao100 by 0.02 a day before competition? It looks like I used to my new Valk3.


 It sure is, congrats on your new official PB!

http://cubecomps.com/live.php?cid=1881&compid=41

You are now faster than me at comp  gotta fight back


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## muchacho (Dec 3, 2016)

Congrats Grzegorz! Also over-40 top-15.


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## mafergut (Dec 3, 2016)

Nice, Grzegorz @h2f! And with very good single that isn't even PB! Don't think I could have a 16.52 single in comp any time soon, with all the nerves and that.

Now that I have a bit more time to cube again I'm practising a bit of:
- OH: months since I last practised, forgot several PLLs, but got several 31.xx, quite close to PB.
- 2x2: back in the race to sub 5, David @muchacho.
- 5x5: aiming to sub 3min, running Ao50 already 3:01.xx and getting more sub-3 than sup-3 solves already.
- 3x3 full color neutral: probably not sub-20 any more, even though I had graduated. Maybe I will go back to doing my alumni Ao12s at the Race to sub-20 full CN again, @earth2dan.
- 4x4: I have realized that I am slower because of lack of practise, probably not sub 1:30 any more. Will need to get back up to speed.


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## muchacho (Dec 3, 2016)

Dedicated to those that feel slow at 5x5, just done my first timed 5x5 solve (I've done like 3 or 4 untimed in total): 12:40.321


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## One Wheel (Dec 3, 2016)

muchacho said:


> Dedicated to those that feel slow at 5x5, just done my first timed 5x5 solve (I've done like 3 or 4 untimed in total): 12:40.321



I predict you'll be faster than me in 6 weeks. My first timed 5x5 solve was around that 12-13 minute mark about 1 1/2 years ago. Now I'm running between 3:35 and 4:10, depending on the day.


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## mafergut (Dec 3, 2016)

My 1st timed solve was like 21mins, second like 13, third one 9:15.xx (my first "PB single" ) so, not bad David


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## muchacho (Dec 3, 2016)

@One Wheel That wouldn't happen even if I'd practiced 5x5 a couple of hours a day, and I won't, I was just bored (and tired of watching the 5x5 unsolved), I'm just waiting for the stickerless 4x4 I ordered a month ago, I'll try to be "fast" at that first.

@mafergut Thanks!


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## pipkiksass (Dec 3, 2016)

Just had a 13.33 NL single. I thought "wow, that must be a PB - first PB single in 2 years"

Checks sig - PB single NL = 13.33. 

Dammit!!!

I'm definitely up for this "lucky single .55x global average. Just wondering when I'll sneak that lucky sub-10 solve in!


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## mark49152 (Dec 3, 2016)

Congrats Grzegorz, and that is a nice recovery after that second solve!


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## h2f (Dec 3, 2016)

@moralsh @muchacho @mark49152 and all - thanks a lot. I had a a very good time. I was signed to OH, skewb, pyraminx and 2x2 but I knew I couldnt make it due to very high cutoffs and no practice time. I took it as a warmup before 3x3 - I knew I could make good times. First solve was bad with a lockup (I guess). In the 2nd I screwed PLL (G perm) and had to resolve cube. I didnt gave up and I've made 3 good solves. My single pb is 16.52 - I did it during previous competiotion. I'm happy about my ao5 and I'm happy I could make a 2nd round - look at the times: the 41st guy was still sub20.

In 3bld I had a very bad time. Too many emotions and I forgot my algs. DNFs were around 1:20. Last solve was very very safe - I didnt know times of other cubers... I had a good time during comps and in 5 days there are Polish Nationals... No time to rest - it's time to practice.


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## pipkiksass (Dec 5, 2016)

After hitting my first sub-1:30 4x4 solve yesterday, I've just had 4 in the forum race to sub-xx on 4x4 comp. 

Making massive strides forward - if only improvement came this easily on 3x3.

Oh yeah, I was going to learn OLL!!!


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## chtiger (Dec 5, 2016)

http://cubecomps.com/live.php?cid=1874&compid=11
eh, I guess I'll post these lackluster results here since I always post official comp results and I like reading others' comp results

MBLD - 5/7 51:22, satisfied with this, caught myself several times making mistakes and having to undo things so was expecting worse. One cube off by a twisted corner, other was about half scrambled. 2nd place behind @cmhardw who got a PB 8/8, congrats

3BLD - DNFx3 for 2nd comp in a row, ???. 1st solve was 2:18 and just off by a twisted corner, 2nd solve was way off and 2:50 something, 3rd solve couldn't recall edge memo and quit

3x3 - typical comp results for me, was hoping for a good single, but turning was just too sloppy
26.12, 23.81, 24.91, 24.29, 21.17 = 24.34
DNF, 26.95, 22.49, 22.28, 25.18 = 24.87


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## mafergut (Dec 5, 2016)

I just wanted to say hello and tell you guys I put new 5x5 scrambles for the race! I got my 1st success at sub-3:00 Ao12 with PB (2:57.xx).

Also I want to say that I'm proud of this young fellow Spaniard cube genious called Berta García. Her new NR is amazing and she still has so much potential that I hope she goes to Worlds next year and gives us many more reasons to be proud. Watching that barely 9 second memo is incredible.


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## newtonbase (Dec 5, 2016)

chtiger said:


> http://cubecomps.com/live.php?cid=1874&compid=11
> eh, I guess I'll post these lackluster results here since I always post official comp results and I like reading others' comp results
> 
> MBLD - 5/7 51:22, satisfied with this, caught myself several times making mistakes and having to undo things so was expecting worse. One cube off by a twisted corner, other was about half scrambled. 2nd place behind @cmhardw who got a PB 8/8, congrats
> ...


Well done. 2nd to @cmhardw is something to boast about. 


mafergut said:


> I just wanted to say hello and tell you guys I put new 5x5 scrambles for the race! I got my 1st success at sub-3:00 Ao12 with PB (2:57.xx).
> 
> Also I want to say that I'm proud of this young fellow Spaniard cube genious called Berta García. Her new NR is amazing and she still has so much potential that I hope she goes to Worlds next year and gives us many more reasons to be proud. Watching that barely 9 second memo is incredible.


She's great. So quick at 3BLD and 4BLD and good at MBLD too. Looking forward to watching her progress. I hadn't heard of her before the Eurostar.


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## pglewis (Dec 5, 2016)

Comp coming up in about a month so I'm going to detour my planned routine. I was going to start slowly absorbing more OLLs-- maybe a new group every week or three-- but I'm going to put a moratorium on that and stick with OCLL and ~8 others where the recognition is already comfortable for me. PLL amnesia was a problem at my first comp and my PLL execution isn't fast even when I'm hitting on all cylinders so I'm going to pick a PLL perm per day and spam the heck out of it as part of my practice (extra time on Ns so I'm not tempted to 2-look those in speedsolves). Unlimited-time cross inspection has been added as well as trying it blind. Blind pair practice is now part of the daily routine and will stay that way. I'll probably hit the timer a lot harder in the two and a half weeks leading up to it since I've learned it can take me a bit to transition back to my "timer legs" after slow solve practice. And a big one is I need to practice with more distractions and with adrenaline going. I'm keeping my goals very conservative in an attempt to keep the pressure off myself until it's all old hat: get 2x2 and 3x3 averages. Sub 50 3x3 average and at least one sub 40 single would be nice. If it's closer to my home results then bonus.


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## h2f (Dec 5, 2016)

chtiger said:


> http://cubecomps.com/live.php?cid=1874&compid=11
> eh, I guess I'll post these lackluster results here since I always post official comp results and I like reading others' comp results
> 
> MBLD - 5/7 51:22, satisfied with this, caught myself several times making mistakes and having to undo things so was expecting worse. One cube off by a twisted corner, other was about half scrambled. 2nd place behind @cmhardw who got a PB 8/8, congrats



Very nice result in mbld. Congrats.


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## pglewis (Dec 5, 2016)

pglewis said:


> Comp coming up in about a month so I'm going to detour my planned routine. I was going to start slowly absorbing more OLLs-- maybe a new group every week or three-- but I'm going to put a moratorium on that and stick with OCLL and ~8 others where the recognition is already comfortable for me. PLL amnesia was a problem at my first comp and my PLL execution isn't fast even when I'm hitting on all cylinders so I'm going to pick a PLL perm per day and spam the heck out of it as part of my practice (extra time on Ns so I'm not tempted to 2-look those in speedsolves). Unlimited-time cross inspection has been added as well as trying it blind. Blind pair practice is now part of the daily routine and will stay that way. I'll probably hit the timer a lot harder in the two and a half weeks leading up to it since I've learned it can take me a bit to transition back to my "timer legs" after slow solve practice. And a big one is I need to practice with more distractions and with adrenaline going. I'm keeping my goals very conservative in an attempt to keep the pressure off myself until it's all old hat: get 2x2 and 3x3 averages. Sub 50 3x3 average and at least one sub 40 single would be nice. If it's closer to my home results then bonus.



Oh, and no 4x4 distractions! (Stickerless WuQue arrived today)


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## teacher77 (Dec 5, 2016)

pglewis said:


> @teacher77: Congrats on the milestone! Any idea what was different about that solve or what you've been working on that got you there?



Good question... I have many solves around 22, 23 seconds. I'd say at least one in each 40-50 solves. 21 seconds is more rare but happens at least twice a week. So I'd just say that this one 18.45 sec single is a statistical gaussian tail, the "one in a thousand" solves that just occured because of chance. Quite the same thing as the rare screw-ups that take 45 seconds.

From what I remember, one pair was formed when I finished the cross, but that was unplanned for. And I think a second pair formed by chance as well. I'd love to be able to reproduce those instances where you insert a pair and happen to find another all ready to be inserted, but how ?


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## Shaky Hands (Dec 5, 2016)

teacher77 said:


> I'd love to be able to reproduce those instances where you insert a pair and happen to find another all ready to be inserted, but how ?



I suspect there are some NR/CR/WR reconstructions with this happening.


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## defhacks (Dec 6, 2016)

teacher77 said:


> From what I remember, one pair was formed when I finished the cross, but that was unplanned for. And I think a second pair formed by chance as well. I'd love to be able to reproduce those instances where you insert a pair and happen to find another all ready to be inserted, but how ?



https://www.speedsolving.com/wiki/index.php/Multislotting ?

Almost every mention of it I've heard had a phrase along the lines of "but, in practice it may not be worth the trouble"




Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk


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## mark49152 (Dec 6, 2016)

defhacks said:


> https://www.speedsolving.com/wiki/index.php/Multislotting ?
> 
> Almost every mention of it I've heard had a phrase along the lines of "but, in practice it may not be worth the trouble"


Yeah I spent quite some time looking into this and analysing the benefits. Recognition is hard and it doesn't save many moves on average. However, it's definitely worth learning how to avoid breaking up a second pair if you spot that there are two ready to insert. It's also worth learning how to insert in a manner that breaks/extracts the next pair if you spot it's a nasty case.


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## h2f (Dec 7, 2016)

So silent... 
I think I'm sub19 in global. I hit 18.66 ao100 which is almost the same as my pb. And todays 4th solve I think was the fastest fullstep I've done - 12.93.



Spoiler



D F2 L U2 L B2 L U2 F2 U2 R2 F2 D' L B U' B U2 L2 B
x2
F' R'U L2 D'//
U' R U2 R' U2 L' U' L//
R U' R' U R' U' R//
U2 R U' R' U' L U L'//
U' R U R' U2 R U' R'//
U' F R U R' U' F'//
R2 U' R' U' R U R U R U' R U2

alg.cubing.net

55htm/12.93=4,25 tps



I think it's a very nice solve - no rotations and easy pairs.


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## JohnnyReggae (Dec 7, 2016)

I've been out of the loop for almost 2 weeks. Moved house last week which was fairly traumatic given everything that happened in the build up to the move and the move itself. At least it is now done and I can settle down to some cubing.

In all of this I attended a Competition on the weekend. Was my first competition as a Delegate which went off quite smoothly. There were 4 events: 3x3, 2x2, 3x3 OH, and Pyraminx. I managed to get competitions PB's in all the events so am quite happy with that. I missed out on the 2x2 final by 1-10th of a second, so was a little disappointed with that. Also a little disappointed with my showing in 3x3 as I had been doing quite well leading up to the comp, but on the day I just couldn't really pull it together as well as I wanted to. We had Anthony Brooks as a guest over from the USA who was brought out by the organisers Speedcubes.co.za. It was great to meet him, he is such a great guy and very accommodating to everyone and spent a lot of time showing the younger competitions some tips and tricks the whole day.

http://cubecomps.com/live.php?cid=1886&compid=3

 

Also during my house move I managed to get about 5 4x4 solves in 1 night late and managed a new PB again, taking 2 seconds off my previous PB:
1:13.17 B' Fw2 L2 R B2 R' D U2 Rw Fw B Uw' Fw Rw U2 Rw R2 U' L' R' Rw' U2 Fw' L D2 L Fw' D2 Fw2 F2 L' U B' Fw L' R' Fw2 F2 D2 R'

During the competition Speedcubes were selling cubes so bought 2 new ones:
Valk 3 - I like the cube but it catches a bit which I need to get used to and I haven't been able to resticker it in my preferred shades so recognition is a little off. I'd like to see this cube with magnets as I can see the potential for OH.

Curvy Copter - What an awesome puzzle. Such a nice refreshing different solve and the jumbling makes things quite interesting.


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## h2f (Dec 7, 2016)

I've edited my ao5 from GLS CUP VI:


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## pipkiksass (Dec 7, 2016)

Wow, just sat down and worked out how many OLLs I actually KNOW, as in fully in muscle memory, and it's only 30 (inc solved).

Thats not including 8 that are partly-known.

Better get learning!


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## megagoune (Dec 7, 2016)

I signed up for my first competition: Montreal Open Winter 2017. I registered for 3x3, 4x4 and pyraminx.
I don't want to stress myself out with goals, so here is my list of goals 

1. get a WCA id. (I think that should be not too hard  )
2. see how competitions are organized and connect with people to see how I can help organizing in the future.

And I have a list of "nice to have":
1. Don't freak out too much during solves.
2. Get a sub-30 single in 3x3. (I currently average around 25-26 at home, so I think it's realistic)

Do you guys think I should buy a timer to practice with one? How difficult is it to adjust to it?
Will anyone go to that competition?


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## pglewis (Dec 7, 2016)

megagoune said:


> Do you guys think I should buy a timer to practice with one? How difficult is it to adjust to it?



Great to hear you're getting to a comp! I'd get a Stackmat timer for home if you can; they're very simple to use and compact/portable, nearly zero learning curve. At the very least be familiar with the location of the reset button and press it every time you sit down to solve as it's easy for the judges to forget and you don't want to realize it won't arm itself at 12 seconds into your inspection time. 

Otherwise, I figure just a deep breath before inspection and remind myself that I've done thousands of solves. Just do what I always do without "trying" to go fast.


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## One Wheel (Dec 7, 2016)

megagoune said:


> Do you guys think I should buy a timer to practice with one?



I don't have a timer, and had absolutely no issues with timers at my one competition. very simple and straightforward. I would much rather my money on new puzzles than on a timer. If I was a lot faster it might be a different story, but it sounds like I'm about 8 seconds slower than you, and I'm guessing I would need to be around 10-12 seconds on 3x3 for it to be worth it.


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## muchacho (Dec 7, 2016)

For faster events like 2x2 would be more important, if you care about 2x2.


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## pglewis (Dec 7, 2016)

Yeah, I'd agree it's definitely more a "nice to have" than a big deal because the timers are so simple. I wouldn't trade mine in for another puzzle though .


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## One Wheel (Dec 7, 2016)

pglewis said:


> Yeah, I'd agree it's definitely more a "nice to have" than a big deal because the timers are so simple. I wouldn't trade mine in for another puzzle though .



I guess if you've got enough puzzles, and I have more than enough for most sane people, but how does that story go about the beggar asking the rich man how much money is enough?


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## mafergut (Dec 7, 2016)

There are cheap timers, such as the Yuxin one. I bought it but I never use it, just because I have to set it up every time (I cannot leave it always out because I need to use my laptop for other things than cubing 

Also, finally 5x5 Ao50 sub-3 minutes: 2:58.xx. Now continuing to Ao100


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## newtonbase (Dec 7, 2016)

pglewis said:


> Great to hear you're getting to a comp! I'd get a Stackmat timer for home if you can; they're very simple to use and compact/portable, nearly zero learning curve. At the very least be familiar with the location of the reset button and press it every time you sit down to solve as it's easy for the judges to forget and you don't want to realize it won't arm itself at 12 seconds into your inspection time.
> 
> Otherwise, I figure just a deep breath before inspection and remind myself that I've done thousands of solves. Just do what I always do without "trying" to go fast.


I think you are approaching the competition with the right attitude. Just enjoy the experience and set targets for next time. Enter everything that you can solve no matter how slow you are. Try to get involved too by running or judging once you are comfortable with the process. 
Timers are very easy to get used to but nice to own. Things like letting the judge uncover the puzzle seem a little strange at first and I still forget I have to sign my scorecard after 6 comps.


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## newtonbase (Dec 7, 2016)

Anyway, I got some new puzzles. 
Fangshi Jieyun - it has capped pieces and is small so I planned to make a magnetic OH cube but there's no space for the magnets and it's too rounded so it's on the shelf 
Mini Weilong - another OH option. Much nicer this time but I'll need to loosen and lube it. A lot. 
Moyu magnetic pyraminx - it's quick and cuts well but it just doesn't feel right and I don't like the sound. Much preferred the regular Moyu that I bought for my nephew. Maybe he'll swap? 
Shengshou Master Pyraminx - this is a proper fun puzzle. Not quite the quality you need for speed but it's still pretty good. I couldn't quite finish the solve by myself but found someone who could. Highly recommended.


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## pglewis (Dec 8, 2016)

Spent a good part of my evening practice time playing with the stickerless WuQue. A little catchy on the inner slices at times and not quite the smoothness of its 5x5 cousin but I definitely like it. No pops and it seems like I'd probably deserve it if it did. It's nowhere near as smooth and fast as my G4, but the G4 was catchy and very sluggish until break-in, so I'll definitely reserve judgement there for a while. It's definitely more stable which seems helpful in the 3x3 stage. I would prefer 60mm to the 62mm size but it's not a big deal to me. 

I haven't been timing 4x4 for weeks, definite improvements with a 2:28/2:48 single/ao5 with OLL parity on every $#@$ one. 7 solves in a row that needed OLL parity fixes . Should be targeting a sub 2 min single next go-round but it's going back on the cube stand for 3x3 focus for now.


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## One Wheel (Dec 8, 2016)

pglewis said:


> Should be targeting a sub 2 min single next go-round but it's going back on the cube stand for 3x3 focus for now.



For what it's worth, my biggest improvement in my 3x3 times was a direct result of a lot of 4x4 practice. Of course there is a limit: I think my 34/1:55 averages are a little bit out of balance, and my best chance for improvement on either is 3x3 practice and learning full OLL.

On another topic: I was noticing today that OLLs on my Weichuang seem to flow really nicely, but PLLs get really catchy. Has anybody else noticed this kind of phenomenon? Is this something with the cube, or just something I'll have to practice my way out of?


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## Jason Green (Dec 8, 2016)

megagoune said:


> I signed up for my first competition: Montreal Open Winter 2017. I registered for 3x3, 4x4 and pyraminx.
> I don't want to stress myself out with goals, so here is my list of goals
> 
> 1. get a WCA id. (I think that should be not too hard  )
> ...


My first comp my only goal was to get an average. I didn't want to mess up and DNF. I had a +2 on my first solve I think but that was it so I was happy. 

I like practicing with my timer sometimes but they are simple to adjust to do if you don't want to spend the money I wouldn't sweat it either. My times are basically the same with it without timer (actually usually better with which is weird, my PB's are all with it). 



One Wheel said:


> On another topic: I was noticing today that OLLs on my Weichuang seem to flow really nicely, but PLLs get really catchy. Has anybody else noticed this kind of phenomenon? Is this something with the cube, or just something I'll have to practice my way out of?



I had as similar experience with the GTS, in that my f2lb is bad because it's too fast, but I love last layer. In the end I did not use it as main because of that though.


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## mafergut (Dec 8, 2016)

4x4 PB single out of nowhere when trying to get back onto the race to sub 1:20. Almost 2 seconds off my previous PB and with PLL parity. A pity because it would have been pretty close to sub 1 min otherwise. It happened on the 2nd scramble of round 47b:

1. 1:05.44 L B F Uw B' R2 U L Fw F2 Rw F' Uw2 F U' R2 Uw2 Rw L2 U2 R2 L2 Fw2 F R L' F B' U' L' B U' L' R2 Uw' R B' F Rw U


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## pipkiksass (Dec 8, 2016)

One Wheel said:


> For what it's worth, my biggest improvement in my 3x3 times was a direct result of a lot of 4x4 practice. Of course there is a limit: I think my 34/1:55 averages are a little bit out of balance, and my best chance for improvement on either is 3x3 practice and learning full OLL.



Amazingly, I didn't really get into 4x4 when I used to cube, it was all about 3x3 (and only 3x3). This time around, I've fallen in love with 4x4 in a big way! I think I do more 4x4 solves than 3x3 at the moment.

I've resolved not to time any 3x3 solves until I've learnt full OLL, except for forum comps. I spent about 2 hours last night going through some DIY alg sheets that me and @Logiqx knocked up about 2 years ago, trying to find the best algs for the 28 OLLs I haven't already committed to memory. I got about 18 cases through, and had to go to bed! Once I have the 'best' algs (for me) all chosen, I'll knock up a nice clean cheat sheet of just the cases I DON'T know, and then do untimed solves focussing on lookahead, and refer to the sheets where necessary. I need to work on my lookahead anyway, and it seems as good a time as any to put the timer away - then when I get to OLL I won't be tempted to 2-look, because I won't be worrying about squeezing the solve in as fast as possible.

Not sure if this will work, but it seemed like a good idea at the time!



mafergut said:


> 4x4 PB single out of nowhere when trying to get back onto the race to sub 1:20. Almost 2 seconds off my previous PB and with PLL parity. A pity because it would have been pretty close to sub 1 min otherwise. It happened on the 2nd scramble of round 47b:
> 
> 1. 1:05.44 L B F Uw B' R2 U L Fw F2 Rw F' Uw2 F U' R2 Uw2 Rw L2 U2 R2 L2 Fw2 F R L' F B' U' L' B U' L' R2 Uw' R B' F Rw U



Very nice. I love the fact that, with 4x4, there's SO much room for me to improve. For example, I entered the race to sub-2:30 race a couple of weeks ago, and my average to graduate from that race was 1:35.xx - i.e. within a couple of weeks I'd shaved a minute off my times! 

I think it helps that I went straight for Yau with 323 edge pairing, rather than learning a 'beginners' method or plain redux. Edge pairing feels natural for me now - I think the stages where I have big improvements to make are first 2 centres and first 3 cross edges. My lookahead in these steps is RUBBISH - if I get an easy F2C case, and fluke cross edges at the front so I can see them, I'm scraping in solves sub 1:20. 

Just sat down and did about 30 4x4 solves, set PB single (1:11.02 U Fw2 F2 R2 Fw' D' Rw' F' B2 D' B Rw' D' B' U2 F U Fw2 Rw2 U Uw2 F2 B' Fw2 U' Uw Rw F2 Fw Uw2 U2 D R2 F R' Uw U' R2 B' R'), Ao5 - 1:25.17, and Ao12 - 1:30.10:



Spoiler



Generated By csTimer on 2016-12-8
avg of 12: 1:30.10

Time List:
1. 1:37.34 U' L F Fw D' B' L' Rw' D Fw L' U' F' U' Fw' L D2 Fw R' B' Fw F D2 Fw2 B' F2 D2 B' U2 Fw Rw' L2 F2 U2 R2 D Rw2 U' Fw' R'
2. 1:21.41 R2 Fw2 D' B U R2 Fw' U2 D2 Rw2 Uw2 U' D L U2 D Rw2 D2 Uw' Rw2 Uw2 D2 B Uw' Fw2 U' L2 B' R2 L' D2 F L2 Fw2 F' Rw2 Uw2 Fw Uw F'
3. 1:27.65 Uw' R' Uw' L2 R Fw' B2 U2 F Uw2 F' D2 Uw2 Rw2 Uw2 Rw2 R2 D2 B' F2 R L Uw' B' Rw' Uw2 F' U D' R2 Fw' Uw Rw' L2 R2 Uw2 R2 D' F L'
4. 1:26.45 U2 B' Rw' L2 Uw2 R U2 Uw' F' R' B2 Rw2 U2 L' U2 L' U' Rw2 D2 F' Fw2 L' Rw D Rw' R' F2 Rw' R' Uw' R' Rw2 U Uw L Uw2 F2 Uw' U2 F2
5. (1:12.45) B Uw R U Uw2 R' D B2 D2 Fw D B U L' D2 L2 R' Fw U2 F2 Fw2 R2 D Rw2 Uw' D' U2 Rw2 L' B' U2 D' L2 R' Rw2 Fw2 Rw' R' U' R2
6. (1:44.20) F Uw' Fw' L F L Fw U' Uw2 D' B2 R F2 L' Fw' R Fw2 F L' R B R2 F' D' L' Uw R B Uw' L F' Fw' L' Rw D2 U F Rw2 D2 B2
7. 1:32.24 Fw Uw Rw' R D' F2 D' Rw' R' L B L' Fw2 F Rw' Uw' B F' U2 Uw D Rw B' R2 D' F B' D' Rw2 Uw R' Fw2 D Uw' R Fw2 F' R2 Uw Rw2
8. 1:40.06 F' L' Rw' Fw' L Uw' U' Fw2 U2 F2 R D F' Rw L D2 Rw B' Rw2 F2 Fw' D' B2 Uw2 R' F2 D Rw2 Uw R F Rw' Uw' Fw' F2 Rw2 U Fw2 Rw' Uw
9. 1:28.80 L D F Fw' U2 Uw2 R2 F' Uw' D F' Uw' Rw' R' Fw' Rw2 B' F' Uw2 Rw U2 D' R D' U Fw2 R B2 F2 D L' Fw D' Rw F2 Uw' B2 L2 R' Fw'
10. 1:40.66 F' L2 B' Rw2 Uw' D Fw' D B2 Rw' Uw2 F2 D2 B2 Fw D2 B' Rw2 D' Rw2 B F' Fw' Uw' Fw F2 D2 U2 L2 Fw2 Rw' Fw' L' R' Uw L' B D' Rw2 F'
11. 1:23.98 D2 R L2 Uw F' Rw' Fw' U2 Fw Rw2 R' F' L2 Rw R' Fw' F D R F Uw' R' U' R2 B' U D2 Uw' Fw D' F' Fw2 U' F L2 B' F2 R2 Uw F
12. 1:22.38 D2 Rw Uw' Rw' Fw2 Rw F U Rw2 D' Uw2 F Fw' Uw' L2 Rw' Fw2 Rw F Fw2 B L Fw2 Rw Fw R' F2 Uw Rw' B' Fw2 F' Rw' Fw2 Rw2 Uw D2 R2 Fw2 L2



I think the fact I have a 1:12 solve followed by a 1:44 (double parity, bad edge pairing, etc..) is evidence that I need more practice!

Off to learn some OLLs...


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## mafergut (Dec 8, 2016)

@pipkiksass, You just started to solve 4x4 some weeks ago and you are already chasing me... and soon passing me, I'm sure.

My weakest parts are L4C and also F3E. My F2C are good I think, even though I don't always make an effort to plan the whole 2nd center during inspection, just the 1st one and, depending on how easy the scramble is, maybe just the 1st bar of the 2nd center. I should practise with unlimited inspection to improve this.

I can only start with either white or yellow center (and always do white cross) as I don't know the colour scheme well for other F2C combinations. That's what I like about 5x5, you always have the centers there to guide you. It's a pity, because I very frequently see easy centers in blue/green or red/orange that I cannot take advantage of.


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## megagoune (Dec 8, 2016)

Thanks for all the answers @pglewis, @One Wheel, @muchacho, @mafergut, @newtonbase, @Jason Green.
I think I will buy a timer, but my reason will not be because I need to practice with it, but because I just want to try.
Which one works well with a Mac and cstimer?



newtonbase said:


> Shengshou Master Pyraminx - this is a proper fun puzzle. Not quite the quality you need for speed but it's still pretty good. I couldn't quite finish the solve by myself but found someone who could. Highly recommended.



I also received mine. 4 weeks in transit, that's always the hard part. I really like it. It's fun to solve. I am waiting for Shengshou to release a 5 layer version now. I am not sure I want to buy the Meffert's one.

Quick photos of the puzzle and its introduction to the rest of the tetrahedron family.


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## Jason Green (Dec 8, 2016)

The stackmat pro should work in theory, but I did not have the correct input ports on my iMac to make it work.


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## pipkiksass (Dec 8, 2016)

mafergut said:


> My weakest parts are L4C and also F3E. My F2C are good I think, even though I don't always make an effort to plan the whole 2nd center during inspection, just the 1st one and, depending on how easy the scramble is, maybe just the 1st bar of the 2nd center. I should practise with unlimited inspection to improve this.
> 
> I can only start with either white or yellow center (and always do white cross) as I don't know the colour scheme well for other F2C combinations. That's what I like about 5x5, you always have the centers there to guide you. It's a pity, because I very frequently see easy centers in blue/green or red/orange that I cannot take advantage of.



I'm also white/yellow centres and white cross. I don't think this is necessarily a bad thing, but I sometimes see 3/4 of a blue centre or whatever during inspection, and wish I were colour neutral!

I only plan first centre during inspection. I've never tried planning the second, unless the scramble is SUPER easy. I'll sometimes try to track 1/2 pieces of the second centre, but I know the 'pros' can plan and insert F2C blind. I think I could definitely improve F2C, which might help me chasing the F3E?!?

Try 



for L4C. I use half-centres and, 90% of the time, this gives me a really good case. On a good solve, I think I probably do L4C sub 10. It can literally be done in under 10 turns if you have a few 2x1 blocks after F3E. Takes a little getting used to, but (once again) I'm fortunate that I went for 1/2 centres and 323 from the start - once you get used to them, they're ridiculously easy.

I need to get in to 5x5!

Cubing is eating my life.

This is a good thing.

Edit: carried on with 4x4, and got sub-1:25 Ao5 (1:24.67) and sub-1:30 Ao12 (1:27.77)


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## CLL Smooth (Dec 8, 2016)

pipkiksass said:


> I'm also white/yellow centres and white cross. I don't think this is necessarily a bad thing, but I sometimes see 3/4 of a blue centre or whatever during inspection, and wish I were colour neutral!
> 
> I only plan first centre during inspection. I've never tried planning the second, unless the scramble is SUPER easy. I'll sometimes try to track 1/2 pieces of the second centre, but I know the 'pros' can plan and insert F2C blind. I think I could definitely improve F2C, which might help me chasing the F3E?!?


If you haven't given Hoya a shot, I suggest that you do.


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## pglewis (Dec 9, 2016)

pglewis said:


> I haven't been timing 4x4 for weeks, definite improvements with a 2:28/2:48 single/ao5 with OLL parity on every $#@$ one. 7 solves in a row that needed OLL parity fixes . Should be targeting a sub 2 min single next go-round but it's going back on the cube stand for 3x3 focus for now.



Just wanted to know what a decent time for me is now without OLL parity and had to wait like 7 more solves still lol. That's kinda crazy. Anyway, the answer was 2:07, so sub-2 not so far out of my reach.


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## efattah (Dec 9, 2016)

I'd like to introduce a new metric called 'lookahead fraction' (LF). LF is the fraction of your solve that you spend pausing, examining, recognizing cases, deciding what to do, etc.

The procedure to measure your lookahead fraction is simple: take a scramble, solve it legit and time it; then solve the same scramble several more times using the exact same series of moves until you execute it smoothly without pauses. And time the solve that has no pauses. The ratio gives your lookahead fraction. Ideally the scramble should yield a full step non-lucky solve, and even better if you can take an average over several solves.

As an example I did the test myself. The first solve was 15.7. Reconstructing the solve after I found it 46 moves STM which is right about average for the LMCF method I am using; it was a full step non-lucky solve. The second try ended up at 11.50 and this quickly fell below 10 seconds until after several tries I made it through without any lock ups and got an 8.77. So theoretically the time spent actually turning was 8.77 / 15.7 = 55.86%, and the rest of the time (100.0 - 55.86 = 44.1%) was spent in dead time. So my LF = 44.1%, and this is the fraction of my solve spent recognizing stuff, and it is the theoretical amount of time I would 'save' on a solve if I had flawless lookahead. This number is very useful because many people wonder if they should learn new algorithm sets and so on, or how fast could they get with 4LLL as an example. This test measures your raw TPS (in my case the original solve was 46/15.7= 2.93 TPS, and the RAW TPS with no pauses is 46/8.77 = 5.24). So I know from this that my hands can turn a whole solve at 5.24, but my real TPS collapses to a horrid 2.93 when you incorporate pauses. This tells me that rather than learn new algorithms I am still probably better just working on lookahead and recognition speed. To be fair I should try to calculate the LF on a series of solves and I hope to do that in the next few days. Here is the solve after a few runs through when pauses were eliminated, I should have taken a video of the original solve as comparison! Next time.


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## Jason Green (Dec 9, 2016)

@efattah I think that's a cool idea, nice solve also! The only other thing which might very slightly improve besides pauses for lookahead would be your transition speed between the turns themselves? In other words going from first slot to second slot for example you would be practicing the same combination of moves while you do this, so basically it would be like drilling an alg and your actual execution time might improve too. Although I guess you could argue that you've done those transitions in thousands of other solves so maybe not? In any case I think it would be insignificant so the LF would still be pretty accurate. 

The way I know I have lots of room to improve lookahead is watch a video of myself.  Holy crap I still pause that much!?! Haha


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## mark49152 (Dec 9, 2016)

@efattah Yes it's an interesting experiment that was tried on this thread 2-3 years ago and also turned into a sort of mini-competition IIRC. I saw similar huge improvements, and used the results to conclude that with enough practice I should be able to reach at least sub-15 global even if my fingers never get any faster.


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## JohnnyReggae (Dec 9, 2016)

Had a few more days to play with the Valk and I must say that it's kind of growing on me ... like a fungus  Even with the stock sticker shades my recognition is great and I seem to be getting consistent lower times than I do with my AIR. Not sure if it's the puzzle or the sticker shades. Initially I wasn't a fan of the stock shades, but they do contrast well and my recognition is still spot on and sometimes better. I do however prefer the feel of the AIR. It just feels nicer in the hands so I have been swapping between the 2 regularly to train both the change in colour recognition and very different feeling in the cubes. I have ordered some of my prefered shades for the Valk, however I'm considering ordering some Valk shades for my AIR to see how that goes.

 

Also unboxed another package yesterday. 5 in total, Master Pyraminx, 2xCrazy Winmill, 1xAxis, 1xFisher

The Master Pyraminx is awesome. There are no ball bearings to click things into place which feel different but I don't mind that at all. The puzzle moves nicely, feels great. The solve is also interesting, but I suppose there are a few ways of accomplishing that. I'd say that it is a good addition to the collection 

  

The other 4 are going to be Frankenstein'd between themselves and we've yet to see what is going to come out of that. Should be interesting as there should be some Ghost cube properties brought in somewhere.


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## muchacho (Dec 9, 2016)

Real solve -> 19.726 seconds, 66 STM -> 3.35 TPS





Reconstruction:
y2 x
F M' U2 M R' U R M' L U M U2 F
M' U' L2 U' M U' L' U L U2 M' U2 L U' L' U M U' L' U L M2 U2 R' F' R
U' R U2 R' U' R U R' U' R U' R'
M' U2 M U M' U M2 U M2 U' M U2 M U2 M2

15.271 seconds (4.32 TPS) after 7-8 tries... I don't think I could have improved it much more (although my PB had 5.00 TPS)





Really bad first two blocks (even worse than usual), it was an inefficient solve but with not many pauses, maybe that's why time didn't changed much. I didn't need this video to see that I should work on being more efficient, also my advanced maths tells me that my limit is 9.999


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## mafergut (Dec 9, 2016)

Very nice idea. I will try that myself this weekend. I don't think I'll record it though as it might take me a lot of solves to reach sub-10 even after 100 tries 

Regarding half centers, thanks @pipkiksass for the video. I did try half centers some months ago and I did not find any improvement in my times. Maybe I should try harder 

Also, more 5x5 PBs (yeah, I'm boring you all with this, I know).
- Single 2:21.31 down from 2:28.xx
- Ao5 2:41.95 down from 2:47.xx
- Ao12 2:53.63 down from 2:56.xx
- Running Ao50 down to 2:57.xx
- Still 37 solves to complete 1st sub-3min Ao100, I hope


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## One Wheel (Dec 9, 2016)

muchacho said:


> Real solve -> 19.726 seconds, 66 STM -> 3.35 TPS
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Well, to start it takes me almost twice as long even when I'm not conscious of pauses, but watching both videos I saw a few pauses even in the second one. I suspect that you could shave off another second and a half with more fluid turning and no change in TPS.


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## pglewis (Dec 9, 2016)

WuQue: I'm gonna call it already: new main over my G4. Far more stable at holding a cube shape, LL algs fight me less with the stability. I did however get a corner twist on it which will be something to look out for. I felt resistance then a quick give on a D' move at one point and thought it may have popped but a quick check showed it was fine... until OLL. 

CN: If anyone had suggested I work on being color neutral even 3 days ago I would have been resistant. I've done thousands of solves exclusively on white first layer and my recog/lookahead is still dodgy. But two nights ago, just for grins, I tried some CN solves. Not surprisingly yellow was decent and anything else was 1:30-1:45. Not sure why I did it again last night, but I was in a groove where I was sub 50 on quite a few non white/yellow first layers. Suddenly feeling like I could actually adjust if I spent several weeks on it. Not a huge priority, yellow/white alone would give me options, but I may make CN a 2017 goal after all. 

@efattah: I like this! Seems like you could also get a conservative estimate just timing pauses from a recorded solve and subtracting those out, though it wouldn't give the increased turn speed from practicing a prescribed solution.



CLL Smooth said:


> If you haven't given Hoya a shot, I suggest that you do.



I've been meaning to take an informal survey of 4x4 methods used among the old-timers. I tried both Yau and Hoya early and was reasonably comfortable with both but felt Yau flowed better for me so I've stuck with it. Also, I've been solving edges 3-3-2, I think. I don't slice initially, do three edges, slice, three more, slice back, and with luck I'm just left with the L2E. 3-2-3 seems to be ubiquitous though, I'd like to hear the advantages.


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## JohnnyReggae (Dec 9, 2016)

Getting some practice in while the kids watch a movie ... managed this fairly consistent ao12 with the Valk 

Generated By csTimer on 2016-12-9
avg of 12: 17.33

Time List:
1. 17.56 L2 B2 U D2 B U2 L D2 B' F2 R2 L2 U' F2 D' F2 D' F2 U F2 
2. 17.06 U2 R D2 R2 D B2 L' F D' U2 B R2 D2 L2 U2 F2 R2 B U2 L2 
3. 17.97 U L2 U' L2 R2 F2 U' L2 U' B2 D2 B' L2 B2 U2 B R2 D' L' R' U' 
4. 17.14 U F2 L F U2 L' U B R D2 R2 L2 F' B' R2 U2 B R2 B L2 
5. 17.32 D2 L2 F' R2 D2 B R2 F L2 B D' F2 U L2 R2 F U2 B' R F 
6. 17.68 L B2 L' F2 R2 F2 D2 F2 R F2 L' D F' L' B F' U R2 F2 U' 
7. 17.39 L2 F L2 U2 B' U2 B2 U2 R2 B2 U2 R' B' L U' B' L' B L2 B' 
8. 17.03 F2 D2 R' B2 L D2 L2 D2 R2 B2 D2 F R U L2 B F L' D' 
9. 17.77 L2 D' L2 F B2 L F2 B' R U' F' R2 B D2 R2 F' R2 F' U2 F2 U2 
10. 16.36 R U2 D F2 U' R F L B' L F2 D2 F2 R U2 B2 D2 L2 U2 L2 B 
11. (15.69) F2 D2 L2 B2 F2 D2 R2 U' B2 L2 D R' D' U L B2 R B' R B U2 
12. (18.99) L2 B' R2 B R2 F L2 D2 B2 U2 F' U R' D L' D2 B' D2 L2 U F


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## mafergut (Dec 9, 2016)

@pglewis, Phil, don't tell me that... it's been like 3 months since I last bought my last cube and now you're making me want a WuQue  Also, go for CN, I think it's totally worth it and the sooner you start the better. Not that I'm lightning fast by any means but, at sub-19 global average, it's taking me much more effort than expected and I'm not even close to sub-20 yet (probably not even sub-21) at red/orange/blue/green. I am already dual white/yellow CN, though and it's true that, with less effort it at least gives you more options than just white. But try to tell that to Antoine Cantine, who refuses to solve in anything different than... is it orange?

@JohnnyReggae Just curious what your standard deviation was on that Ao12. That's a consistent average if I've ever seen one. To be honest you almost spoil it at the end with that 16.xx


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## mark49152 (Dec 9, 2016)

pglewis said:


> I've been meaning to take an informal survey of 4x4 methods used among the old-timers. I tried both Yau and Hoya early and was reasonably comfortable with both but felt Yau flowed better for me so I've stuck with it. Also, I've been solving edges 3-3-2, I think. I don't slice initially, do three edges, slice, three more, slice back, and with luck I'm just left with the L2E. 3-2-3 seems to be ubiquitous though, I'd like to hear the advantages.


That's known as 6-2. Consensus seems to be that it can give better singles but hard cases are tougher to deal with so worse averages, compared to 3-2-3.

I use Hoya.


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## h2f (Dec 9, 2016)

2 +centers from being a medalist and maybe a champ. So close so far. Xd

Wysłane z mojego SM-J500FN przy użyciu Tapatalka


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## mafergut (Dec 9, 2016)

Sorry, Grzegorz. As you say, sometimes things are so close, yet so far... We're proud of you anyway.


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## JohnnyReggae (Dec 9, 2016)

mafergut said:


> @JohnnyReggae Just curious what your standard deviation was on that Ao12. That's a consistent average if I've ever seen one. To be honest you almost spoil it at the end with that 16.xx


To be honest I've never had such a consistent a012 ... ever ... I almost felt cheated when I got the 16, 15 and 18. Felt like they all should have been 17's 

At least today I've had some better times, 170 timed solves with 13 sub 15's, 8 14's and 5 13's .. probably the most consistent day I've had in a very long time. Spent most of today with the Valk. As much as I like the AIR I find myself gravitating towards the Valk. I must say that I'm quite surprised by the Valk. I enjoy it more than I thought I would and was only getting it to add to the collection rather than it becoming a possible main ... and the sticker shades are growing on me 

Some more stats from the ao12...


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## pipkiksass (Dec 9, 2016)

pglewis said:


> 3-2-3 seems to be ubiquitous though, I'd like to hear the advantages.



The main advantage of 3-2-3 is that you can't have one unsolved dedge, so it's really 3-2-2. You slice, solve 3 dedges (3), then set up 1, slice (4), set up another, slice back (5), set up another, slice (6), set up another, slice back (7) and, by default the remaining dedge is solved by solving the 7th (8). 

So basically you only have to set up 7 dedges, while with 6-2 you have to set up 8.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## kbrune (Dec 10, 2016)

mafergut said:


> @pipkiksass,
> I can only start with either white or yellow center (and always do white cross) as I don't know the colour scheme well for other F2C combinations. That's what I like about 5x5, you always have the centers there to guide you. It's a pity, because I very frequently see easy centers in blue/green or red/orange that I cannot take advantage of.



It was same for me until very recently. But I got fed up of having to pass up a 3/4 done center that was one of the 4 off colours. So I forced myself to be CN for F2C. I was surprised how quick it became easy. I still fumble here and there when thinking about where the colours go. But over all it went well and I'm now able to go for any colour for F2C. I would suggest switching. 

I started by using 2 colours. For example. If I saw a nice blue start. After F2C I put blue on my left and would instantly go for either white or red knowing which one would go where. Then complete the last2 from there. And same if I started with red or orange. I would put red to my left and search for white or green. At first your limited by 2 colours. But now I can do it fairly smoothly. Hope that made sense.


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## kbrune (Dec 10, 2016)

@megagoune 

I'm registered for Montreal as well! 
I'm currently on my way to Toronto for tomorrow's comp!

I didn't see your post about the timer but I saw some of the replies. For me personally. Using the timer for the first time threw me off at my first comp. I became to used to stopping time with one finger. So when I solved I would be thinking about how to stop the comp timer with both hands which distracted me slightly. 

I couldn't buy one before my second comp so I made myself get Into the habit of not touching the cube before starting the timer. And also dropping the cube while simulating a stack mat stop as much as possible. Still stopping the timer on my phone with one finger but the other hand flat on the surface I was using.

If you have any questions or anything I'd be happy to help out before we meet in February


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## kbrune (Dec 10, 2016)

pipkiksass said:


> The main advantage of 3-2-3 is that you can't have one unsolved dedge, so it's really 3-2-2. You slice, solve 3 dedges (3), then set up 1, slice (4), set up another, slice back (5), set up another, slice (6), set up another, slice back (7) and, by default the remaining dedge is solved by solving the 7th (8).
> 
> So basically you only have to set up 7 dedges, while with 6-2 you have to set up 8.
> 
> ...



I still know very little about 4x4 edges. I don't know what any of the variations are called. Or how they work. When I first started with4x4 someone showed me to set up 3, slice replace them with 3 more then slice back. What's this called?

I don't know if I like it but I've been too lazy to look into dedges any further. I dislike that you can run Into situations where it doesn't work. Mind you I've always found dedges difficult either way.


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## One Wheel (Dec 10, 2016)

kbrune said:


> I still know very little about 4x4 edges. I don't know what any of the variations are called. Or how they work. When I first started with4x4 someone showed me to set up 3, slice replace them with 3 more then slice back. What's this called?
> 
> I don't know if I like it but I've been too lazy to look into dedges any further. I dislike that you can run Into situations where it doesn't work. Mind you I've always found dedges difficult either way.



That's 6-2. I've never really bothered to figure out how to do that right, 3-2-3 is just too simple, easy, and elegant.


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## newtonbase (Dec 10, 2016)

What are the slices like on the Wuque? Not that I should be buying a new 4x4. I've spent the last week breaking in my spare G4.


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## pipkiksass (Dec 10, 2016)

kbrune said:


> I dislike that you can run Into situations where it doesn't work.



IKR, so much you can't control, unlike 3x3. With 323 I find if there's one solved dedge somewhere you end up with last 2 dedges matching, and needing a straight swap, so if you insert then break the single good dedge, all is well. If you have 2, and spot it in time, same goes. 

I once had 3 solved dedges after L4C, and successfully used 3-2 edge pairing, and got a nice time!

Worst cases are when the bloody edge you're looking for has been sliced to the back of the cube, or when you make a pair by slicing, and either lookahead flops or pairing system falls apart completely.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## mark49152 (Dec 10, 2016)

pipkiksass said:


> Worst cases are when the bloody edge you're looking for has been sliced to the back of the cube,


If you do 3-2-3 right, the first slice back should leave the back 2 slots filled so no more searching there. Which also means fewer rotations compared to 6-2.


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## pipkiksass (Dec 10, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> If you do 3-2-3 right, the first slice back should leave the back 2 slots filled so no more searching there. Which also means fewer rotations compared to 6-2.



I mean on the first slice, where the first edge you're looking for is on the back. I've started scanning the cube for maybe a second before I slice, to try and prevent this.

Also, sometimes the second edge I'm looking for was paired with the first one pre-slice, and has ended up at the back of the cube. I find this much harder to foresee, and it often costs me a few seconds.

But agreed, after the first 3 edges, everything is on U or (for me) LF dedge with 3-2-3. I always slice the same way, so I'm always placing the edge I'm looking for on the inner d layer, which makes pairing very smooth for me using only sexy, sledge, and their lefty mirrors to drop edges in.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## kbrune (Dec 10, 2016)

Good day at Toronto limited so far

2x2
Hands felt off and nerves were a factor. 
Easy ish scrambles so I still beat my average. 6.58 from 6.99. Missed my single by 0.02 lol

3x3

Crushed my official average!! Was 20.08.
Got an 18.59!!!!! Very nice surprise for me. All 5 solves under 20!


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## muchacho (Dec 10, 2016)

Congrats!

_First place for @moralsh at 5BLD (28:31.00) at Fuenlabrada Open_


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## pglewis (Dec 10, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> What are the slices like on the Wuque? Not that I should be buying a new 4x4. I've spent the last week breaking in my spare G4.



All layers feel quite nice to me but you have to take into account how slow I am, especially on centers. Hoping to hear some impressions from someone not sup 2:30 soon. I broke it in for a couple days then put a few drops of Silk in it-- that's the extent of fiddling I've done-- so I feel safe saying it's definitely a puzzle with great potential. My biggest concern would be corner twists and of course most people seem to be die-hard 60mm.


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## pglewis (Dec 10, 2016)

So much comp activity... hopefully I haven't missed anyone recently, bust my chops if I did. 



chtiger said:


> MBLD - 5/7 51:22, satisfied with this



As you should be. I'm blown away by the high-level BLD talent in here. 



JohnnyReggae said:


> I managed to get competitions PB's in all the events so am quite happy with that.



Well done, and congrats on a smooth run in your first delegate role. 



h2f said:


> I had a good time during comps and in 5 days there are Polish Nationals... No time to rest





h2f said:


> 2 +centers from being a medalist and maybe a champ. So close so far. Xd



As an official over-40 cheerleader I'm going to drop the "so far" part. You'll get 'em next time. 

Also, wow, 120 competitors sub 20 in the first round of 3x3... welcome to Polish Nationals, eh? 



kbrune said:


> Good day at Toronto limited so far



Everyone makin' us proud, one more official sub 20 in the books. Next stop, sub 15 



muchacho said:


> Congrats!
> 
> _First place for @moralsh at 5BLD (28:31.00) at Fuenlabrada Open_



I'm running out of ways to say "wow". Congrats, award pics demanded!


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## Selkie (Dec 10, 2016)

Will catch up on the thread tomorrow. Lots of pages!

Qiyi WuQue 4x4 arrived today in the post. Instant main and complete game changer. Completely eclipses G4 stickerless and Yuxin Blue with TC springs. I am finding it hard to find a fault with it and it is getting better solve by solve. I seem to be averaging about sub 1:02 with it which is a drop of 2s overall just due to this cube.

Practicing hard for Birmingham Open next weekend. Most efforts on 5x5, 6x6 and 7x7 though. I do not expect anything special on 3x3 as I have not practiced much.


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## pipkiksass (Dec 10, 2016)

Just solved my megaminx for the first time. Took 3 weeks. I had the last layer all oriented, but 3 corners needed swapping, and it had been sat on the table for 3 weeks in that state. 

Then I worked out what a D move is, and hey presto, it's solved!


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## mark49152 (Dec 10, 2016)

Congrats to everyone with comp successes! 

Especially @moralsh with that 5BLD


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## moralsh (Dec 10, 2016)

Thanks Guys, there's a video of the 4BLD and of the last seconds of the 5BLD (poor reaction ) I'll upload this week, tomorrow I might do Multi, haven't practiced at all so no expectations. I'll tell you more shortly


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## kbrune (Dec 11, 2016)

Thanks for the congrats guys! 

Other highlights of the day since my last post. 

- had a 8.47 second pyraminx solve with a 2 second pause near the end. Would have smashed my official single.

- sliced my Skewb single almost in half from 17.xy to 9.6x. Also sliced my ao5 from 26.xy down to 17.5 ish

- 4x4 did not make cut off of 1:10. Brain power was pretty drained at this point so I wasn't expecting to get any PBS


Big congrats on your 5bld achievement @moralsh !! Very impressive!


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## h2f (Dec 11, 2016)

moralsh said:


> Thanks Guys, there's a video of the 4BLD and of the last seconds of the 5BLD (poor reaction ) I'll upload this week, tomorrow I might do Multi, haven't practiced at all so no expectations. I'll tell you more shortly


Congrats. Great job.



pglewis said:


> As an official over-40 cheerleader I'm going to drop the "so far" part. You'll get 'em next time.
> 
> Also, wow, 120 competitors sub 20 in the first round of 3x3... welcome to Polish Nationals, eh?



Thanks and thank you all for kind words. Well, Poland is a Proland 

I had a lot of DNFs yesterday. You know what happend in 5bld. In 4bld I was off by parity (forgot about it) in 3rd attempt. In 3bld I did a save solve but must mention the scrambles were the worst I've ever seen - all with parities, cycle breaks and not pure comms in edges. In FMC I found nice solution on inverse but it didnt work on normal scramble. I couldnt figure it out by 40 minutes. Only in 3x3 I'm happy with single. Not sub20 this time, I was to nervous. As always I've met a lot new people and had some nice talks.

For me my results means - practice! For the first time I've felt I like 5bld so I'm gonna to practice it more. Last two months I had a hard time in my job and I think this is one of reasons my skill is down now.


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## Selkie (Dec 11, 2016)

Yes congratulations indeed for the comp results @moralsh , @kbrune and @h2f . Lovely first place there @moralsh


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## Lid (Dec 11, 2016)

Did a Sq-1 a100 today ...
Stats:
a100 = 18.943 (σ = 2.12)
ba50 = 18.626 (σ = 2.30)
ba12 = 17.752 (σ = 2.29)
ba5 = 16.407 (σ = 0.76)
parities: 50; 21 sub20 = 42%
non parities: 50; 47 sub20 = 94%
total sub20s: 68 = 68%


Spoiler: Times & Scambles



Session average: 18.943
1. 17.665[p] (0, -1) / (0, 3) / (-5, -2) / (0, -3) / (-4, -4) / (6, 0) / (-5, -3) / (-3, 0) / (0, -3) / (5, 0) / (-4, -5) / (-1, 0) / (-4, -3)
2. (14.469[p]) (4, 0) / (0, 3) / (-1, -4) / (0, -3) / (0, -3) / (3, 0) / (-3, 0) / (0, -2) / (-3, 0) / (6, 0) / (-5, 0) / (-2, -1) / (-2, 0) / (-2, 0)
3. 20.258[p] (-3, -1) / (-3, -3) / (1, -2) / (3, 0) / (3, 0) / (5, 0) / (-3, -3) / (0, -5) / (6, -2) / (4, 0) / (3, -2) / (6, -2)
4. 16.208 (-5, 0) / (0, -3) / (5, -4) / (-3, -3) / (4, -5) / (0, -3) / (-1, 0) / (-3, -3) / (-3, 0) / (-5, 0) / (5, 0) / (2, 0) / (0, -1) / 
5. 16.045 (0, 2) / (-5, -5) / (-1, -4) / (4, -3) / (0, -3) / (-1, 0) / (4, 0) / (2, 0) / (5, -4) / (-5, -4) / (6, -4)
6. 22.038[p] (0, -1) / (1, -2) / (-4, -4) / (6, 0) / (-2, -5) / (0, -1) / (-3, 0) / (-1, 0) / (2, -5) / (-4, 0) / (4, 0) / (0, -3) / (-3, 0)
7. 18.287 (0, 2) / (-5, 4) / (0, -3) / (5, -1) / (6, 0) / (-2, -5) / (-1, 0) / (0, -3) / (0, -1) / (6, -4) / (0, -2) / (0, -2) / (6, 0) / 
8. 19.009[p] (0, 2) / (0, 3) / (-2, -5) / (0, -3) / (2, -1) / (0, -2) / (-3, 0) / (4, -3) / (-4, 0) / (-4, 0) / (0, -4) / (4, 0) / (-3, 0) / (6, 0)
9. 18.296[p] (-5, -3) / (-3, 0) / (0, -3) / (5, 0) / (-3, 0) / (0, -1) / (-4, 0) / (-2, 0) / (2, 0) / (5, -3) / (3, 0) / (0, -3) / (-3, 0) / (6, 0) / 
10. 19.103 (4, 0) / (-3, 0) / (-4, -4) / (3, 0) / (-2, -5) / (6, -3) / (2, 0) / (3, 0) / (0, -3)
11. (25.040[p]) (0, -4) / (6, 0) / (3, 0) / (4, -2) / (3, 0) / (3, 0) / (-3, -4) / (0, -3) / (5, -2) / (2, -2) / (-4, 0) / (-3, -4) / 
12. 20.238 (1, -3) / (5, -1) / (3, 0) / (0, -3) / (1, -3) / (3, 0) / (6, -5) / (5, 0) / (3, -2) / (-5, 0) / (-2, -4) / (0, -4) / 
13. 19.698 (-5, 0) / (-3, 0) / (-3, 0) / (-1, -3) / (-3, 0) / (3, 0) / (-5, -1) / (4, -3) / (-5, 0) / (-4, -4) / (-4, 0) / (3, 0) / (-1, 0)
14. 21.077[p] (-2, 0) / (6, 3) / (-3, 0) / (2, -4) / (0, -3) / (3, 0) / (0, -2) / (3, 0) / (0, -3) / (5, 0) / (1, 0) / (2, -1) / (6, -4) / 
15. 19.167[p] (4, 0) / (0, -3) / (0, -3) / (3, 0) / (5, 0) / (-3, 0) / (0, -1) / (4, -2) / (0, -4) / (-3, 0) / (-1, -2) / (0, -2) / (1, 0) / (-1, 0)
16. 19.273 (3, -1) / (4, -5) / (3, 0) / (-3, 0) / (6, -3) / (-4, 0) / (-3, 0) / (0, -1) / (-4, 0) / (-2, -2) / (4, -3) / (0, -4)
17. 19.067 (1, 0) / (0, -3) / (2, -1) / (3, 0) / (-5, -5) / (-3, 0) / (0, -1) / (-3, -3) / (5, -2) / (-4, -2) / (4, 0) / (0, -2) / 
18. 19.656[p] (-2, 0) / (-1, -4) / (-2, -2) / (2, -1) / (3, 0) / (-3, 0) / (1, 0) / (0, -3) / (-1, 0) / (-2, 0) / (2, 0) / (-1, 0) / (2, -2)
19. 16.464 (0, -4) / (-5, 1) / (2, -4) / (0, -3) / (1, -2) / (-4, -3) / (0, -3) / (-2, -1) / (6, -2) / (-2, 0) / (6, 0)
20. 22.302[p] (1, 0) / (-1, -4) / (3, 0) / (0, -3) / (4, -3) / (3, 0) / (2, -5) / (2, -2) / (-4, 0) / (1, -4) / (0, -3) / (0, -4) / (0, -1)
21. 19.830[p] (1, 0) / (0, -3) / (-3, 0) / (-3, 0) / (3, 0) / (-1, 0) / (0, -3) / (0, -3) / (3, 0) / (0, -2) / (-1, 0) / (2, 0) / (6, -2) / (0, -4) / 
22. (24.391[p]) (-5, 0) / (5, -1) / (-3, 0) / (3, 0) / (0, -3) / (0, -3) / (-2, -3) / (0, -3) / (-3, 0) / (3, -2) / (-2, 0) / (-5, 0) / (-4, 0) / (0, -2)
23. 20.892[p] (-3, -4) / (-5, -5) / (6, 0) / (0, -3) / (-3, 0) / (2, -1) / (0, -2) / (-3, -3) / (0, -5) / (-2, 0) / (2, 0) / (-4, -1) / (-4, 0)
24. 18.824[p] (0, 2) / (1, -2) / (-3, 0) / (3, 0) / (0, -3) / (3, 0) / (2, 0) / (-3, -3) / (0, -1) / (4, -4) / (-2, 0) / (4, -4) / (0, -4) / 
25. 17.495[p] (3, 5) / (0, -3) / (3, 0) / (-2, -2) / (-3, 0) / (2, -4) / (-5, 0) / (-3, 0) / (5, -2) / (-2, 0) / (-5, -4) / (6, -2) / 
26. 19.661 (1, 0) / (0, 6) / (0, -3) / (-4, -1) / (3, -3) / (4, -5) / (-1, 0) / (-3, -3) / (-4, -3) / (-4, 0) / (1, 0) / (4, 0) / (-5, 0)
27. 19.830[p] (4, 0) / (0, -3) / (2, -1) / (0, -3) / (4, -2) / (5, 0) / (-3, 0) / (0, -1) / (0, -2) / (3, -4) / (-5, 0) / (0, -2) / (-2, 0) / (0, -2)
28. (13.930[p]) (1, 0) / (5, -1) / (3, 0) / (-3, -3) / (-2, -2) / (2, 0) / (-3, 0) / (0, -3) / (4, 0) / (-2, 0) / (4, -3) / (-2, 0) / 
29. 14.737 (-5, 0) / (5, -1) / (-2, -2) / (-1, -4) / (-2, -5) / (-4, 0) / (-3, -3) / (-4, 0) / (1, 0) / (1, 0) / (-4, -1) / 
30. 17.666[p] (1, 0) / (2, 5) / (-2, -2) / (-3, 0) / (-4, 0) / (0, -3) / (-3, 0) / (3, 0) / (5, 0) / (-2, 0) / (-4, 0) / (-2, 0) / (-5, 0) / (0, -5)
31. 18.037 (0, -1) / (0, 3) / (4, -2) / (6, 0) / (0, -1) / (-3, 0) / (-1, -2) / (2, -3) / (4, -3) / (-1, -2) / (6, -2) / (-4, 0)
32. 20.775[p] (1, 3) / (5, -1) / (6, 0) / (-2, -5) / (-4, -1) / (-2, -3) / (-3, 0) / (-1, 0) / (4, 0) / (-2, 0) / (4, 0) / (5, 0) / (-4, 0)
33. 18.143[p] (3, -4) / (-5, -2) / (0, -3) / (-3, -3) / (6, -3) / (5, 0) / (0, -3) / (0, -1) / (4, -4) / (-4, 0) / (-4, 0) / (4, -4)
34. 18.469 (0, 5) / (-2, 4) / (-3, -3) / (0, -3) / (3, 0) / (-3, 0) / (0, -1) / (-3, 0) / (0, -3) / (-5, 0) / (-1, -2) / (6, 0) / (-2, 0)
35. 18.022 (1, 0) / (-3, 0) / (3, 0) / (6, -3) / (5, -4) / (0, -3) / (-2, 0) / (-3, 0) / (0, -3) / (-5, 0) / (5, -2) / (0, -1) / (-2, -4)
36. 19.277[p] (4, 0) / (0, 3) / (0, -3) / (3, 0) / (0, -3) / (2, 0) / (3, 0) / (-5, 0) / (-4, 0) / (-2, 0) / (1, -4) / (-5, 0) / (0, -4) / (5, -4)
37. 18.779[p] (4, 3) / (3, 0) / (-4, -4) / (-3, 0) / (-5, -2) / (6, -1) / (0, -3) / (-1, 0) / (-5, -4) / (2, 0) / (-1, 0) / (4, 0)
38. 19.255[p] (3, -1) / (6, -3) / (6, -3) / (-5, -2) / (3, -4) / (-3, -3) / (1, 0) / (0, -2) / (6, -4) / (0, -1) / (0, -4) / 
39. 16.864 (0, 2) / (-2, 4) / (5, -4) / (3, 0) / (1, -5) / (3, -1) / (3, 0) / (-4, 0) / (0, -5) / (3, -5) / (0, -4) / (3, -4)
40. 19.684[p] (0, 5) / (0, 3) / (6, 0) / (1, -5) / (-1, -4) / (6, -2) / (6, -3) / (-3, -5) / (0, -4) / (3, -2) / (-4, -5) / (4, 0)
41. 17.493 (0, 2) / (-2, -5) / (3, 0) / (-4, -4) / (-2, -2) / (-3, 0) / (5, 0) / (-3, 0) / (4, -1) / (-4, -2) / (4, 0) / (6, 0)
42. (23.825[p]) (4, 0) / (5, 2) / (-3, 0) / (0, -3) / (6, 0) / (0, -2) / (-3, 0) / (-2, -3) / (-4, 0) / (-4, -3) / (5, 0) / (4, 0) / (4, 0) / 
43. 19.847 (-2, 0) / (0, 6) / (0, -3) / (0, -3) / (5, -4) / (3, -3) / (-3, -2) / (6, -3) / (0, -5) / (-1, -3) / (0, -5) / 
44. 23.810[p] (-5, 0) / (0, 3) / (3, -3) / (3, 0) / (-3, 0) / (6, -4) / (3, 0) / (0, -3) / (4, 0) / (0, -2) / (6, -4) / (0, -1)
45. 19.631 (4, 0) / (2, 5) / (4, -2) / (0, -3) / (0, -3) / (5, -4) / (-2, 0) / (0, -3) / (-1, 0) / (1, -4) / (-1, 0) / (3, 0) / (-3, 0)
46. 21.564[p] (-2, 0) / (2, -1) / (0, -3) / (3, -3) / (3, 0) / (-5, 0) / (0, -3) / (-1, 0) / (4, 0) / (2, -3) / (1, 0) / (-4, 0) / (2, -3)
47. 16.446[p] (-2, 0) / (0, 6) / (-1, -4) / (-3, 0) / (-2, -5) / (2, 0) / (0, -3) / (4, 0) / (5, 0) / (-3, 0) / (0, -5) / (-2, 0) / (0, -2) / (-2, 0)
48. 21.252[p] (-5, 0) / (-3, 3) / (-1, -1) / (0, -3) / (6, 0) / (-3, -3) / (4, 0) / (3, 0) / (-4, -3) / (4, 0) / (2, 0) / (5, -4)
49. 19.365 (-2, 3) / (0, -3) / (6, -3) / (5, -4) / (-3, -2) / (0, -3) / (0, -3) / (0, -4) / (-2, -4) / (-4, 0) / (0, -5) / (0, -3) / (0, -3)
50. 22.576 (1, -3) / (2, -1) / (-5, -2) / (-3, 0) / (-4, -1) / (6, -2) / (0, -3) / (0, -3) / (6, -2) / (2, -2) / (-5, 0) / (0, -4)
51. 17.633 (-5, 0) / (-3, 3) / (-1, -4) / (3, 0) / (1, -5) / (0, -3) / (0, -1) / (-3, -3) / (5, 0) / (2, 0) / (0, -2) / (4, -5) / 
52. 16.418 (-2, 3) / (2, -1) / (0, -3) / (-5, -2) / (-1, -4) / (6, -5) / (3, -3) / (6, 0) / (-3, 0) / (-5, -3) / 
53. 14.650 (-2, 0) / (-3, -3) / (-4, -1) / (3, 0) / (-3, 0) / (-2, -2) / (0, -4) / (-3, -3) / (-5, -4) / (0, -4) / (2, 0) / (-4, -4)
54. 18.386 (0, -1) / (3, 0) / (3, -3) / (-2, -2) / (6, -3) / (-3, 0) / (0, -1) / (-3, 0) / (5, 0) / (4, 0) / (2, 0) / (5, 0) / (-2, -5) / 
55. 20.215 (0, 5) / (0, 3) / (-3, 0) / (3, -3) / (-2, -2) / (0, -3) / (-1, 0) / (3, 0) / (1, 0) / (-2, -4) / (4, -2) / (-4, -4) / (-5, 0)
56. 16.840 (1, -3) / (5, -4) / (-2, -5) / (-1, -1) / (-2, 0) / (6, -3) / (1, 0) / (-1, 0) / (-2, 0) / (-3, 0) / (0, -2) / (-2, -2)
57. 21.676[p] (1, 0) / (0, 6) / (3, 0) / (3, 0) / (-3, 0) / (-1, -1) / (-2, 0) / (3, 0) / (-3, 0) / (5, -5) / (-4, 0) / (6, -2) / (4, -2) / 
58. 16.431 (0, 5) / (6, 6) / (0, -3) / (0, -3) / (4, -2) / (-1, -4) / (4, 0) / (3, 0) / (6, -5) / (-1, -2) / (0, -2) / (-3, 0) / 
59. 18.261[p] (0, -1) / (1, 4) / (-3, 0) / (2, -1) / (3, 0) / (3, 0) / (-5, 0) / (0, -3) / (5, 0) / (0, -2) / (-4, 0) / (-5, -4) / (3, 0)
60. 18.212 (0, 2) / (0, -3) / (3, 0) / (1, -5) / (-4, -1) / (3, -2) / (3, 0) / (-5, -4) / (0, -2) / (-4, -5) / (6, -3) / (-4, 0) / 
61. 19.725[p] (0, -1) / (3, 0) / (6, -3) / (0, -3) / (-5, -5) / (-1, 0) / (6, -3) / (-3, 0) / (1, -1) / (6, -4) / (-2, 0) / (-4, 0)
62. 20.600[p] (4, 0) / (5, 2) / (-3, 0) / (-5, -2) / (3, -3) / (-3, 0) / (-1, 0) / (-3, -3) / (0, -3) / (-2, -4) / (0, -2) / (-4, -5)
63. 18.112[p] (1, 0) / (0, 6) / (6, 0) / (3, 0) / (2, -1) / (-2, 0) / (-3, -3) / (5, 0) / (4, 0) / (-4, 0) / (2, 0) / (4, -4)
64. 16.746 (-5, 0) / (-3, 0) / (-4, -4) / (-5, -2) / (5, -1) / (3, 0) / (4, 0) / (-3, -3) / (5, 0) / (0, -4) / (-4, 0) / (6, 0) / (-2, 0) / 
65. 23.025[p] (3, -1) / (4, -5) / (6, 0) / (0, -3) / (-4, -1) / (0, -3) / (1, 0) / (3, 0) / (-3, 0) / (0, -5) / (2, 0) / (0, -2) / (1, 0) / (-1, 0)
66. 15.195 (-5, 0) / (-4, -1) / (-2, -5) / (2, -1) / (1, -2) / (6, -1) / (3, 0) / (3, -5) / (5, 0) / (3, 0) / (0, -4)
67. 21.847[p] (0, 2) / (1, -2) / (-4, -4) / (-5, -2) / (6, -1) / (3, 0) / (-3, -5) / (0, -1) / (2, 0) / (3, 0) / (2, 0) / (6, -1)
68. (13.954) (0, 5) / (0, -3) / (1, -2) / (0, -3) / (0, -1) / (-3, -3) / (-1, 0) / (4, 0) / (-2, 0) / (-2, 0) / (0, -4) / (-4, -3) / (4, 0) / (-4, 0)
69. 16.227 (-5, -3) / (-1, -4) / (-3, -3) / (4, -5) / (5, -3) / (-3, 0) / (-2, -3) / (-2, 0) / (6, -1) / (-3, -2) / 
70. 20.430[p] (4, 0) / (2, 5) / (4, -5) / (-3, 0) / (-1, -4) / (-5, 0) / (3, 0) / (6, -5) / (5, 0) / (0, -2) / (3, 0) / (4, 0) / (6, 0)
71. 20.314[p] (4, 0) / (-3, 0) / (0, -3) / (-3, 0) / (-3, 0) / (-4, -1) / (3, -2) / (-3, 0) / (-2, -1) / (-2, 0) / (0, -3) / (4, 0) / (-1, 0) / 
72. 21.580[p] (-5, -3) / (3, 0) / (0, -3) / (5, -1) / (-5, -3) / (-3, -3) / (-5, 0) / (6, -4) / (0, -2) / (-4, -5) / (-2, 0) / (-2, -1)
73. 17.259 (4, 6) / (-3, 0) / (2, -1) / (-3, 0) / (3, 0) / (0, -3) / (1, 0) / (-3, -3) / (-1, 0) / (-4, 0) / (0, -4) / (-4, -2) / (6, 0)
74. 17.587 (0, 5) / (6, 3) / (6, -3) / (4, -5) / (3, 0) / (-4, -3) / (-3, 0) / (0, -3) / (-4, -3) / (4, 0) / (-2, 0) / (6, -5)
75. 22.079 (0, -1) / (6, 0) / (-3, -3) / (1, -5) / (0, -3) / (-4, -3) / (0, -3) / (-2, -3) / (-1, 0) / (4, 0) / (-2, 0) / (0, -3) / (0, -4)
76. 18.938 (4, 0) / (3, 6) / (-3, 0) / (5, -4) / (3, 0) / (3, -3) / (0, -2) / (0, -3) / (6, 0) / (-3, -5) / (0, -1) / (-4, -2) / (0, -3)
77. 16.476 (0, 5) / (-5, -2) / (2, -1) / (0, -3) / (-5, -2) / (3, -4) / (-3, -3) / (-1, -2) / (-2, 0) / (2, 0) / (4, -1) / (1, 0)
78. 17.679 (-2, 0) / (0, 3) / (3, 0) / (-3, 0) / (-4, -4) / (3, -5) / (3, 0) / (1, 0) / (4, 0) / (-4, -4) / (0, -4) / (4, 0) / (-2, 0) / 
79. (23.996[p]) (1, 0) / (-1, 2) / (4, -5) / (-3, 0) / (3, -3) / (0, -1) / (-3, -3) / (1, 0) / (2, 0) / (0, -4) / (2, -4) / (4, 0)
80. 16.733 (0, -4) / (-3, 0) / (1, -2) / (0, -3) / (0, -3) / (6, 0) / (2, -3) / (-3, -3) / (0, -5) / (-2, 0) / (4, 0) / (-4, 0) / (-2, 0) / 
81. 21.297[p] (-2, -3) / (2, -4) / (-3, 0) / (-5, -2) / (0, -3) / (2, 0) / (3, 0) / (1, -4) / (-2, 0) / (-4, -5) / (-5, -2) / (6, -3)
82. 18.581 (-5, 3) / (0, -3) / (-1, -1) / (6, -3) / (6, -3) / (-2, -3) / (-3, -3) / (1, 0) / (-2, -4) / (0, -2) / (4, -5) / 
83. 20.012[p] (-3, -4) / (3, -3) / (4, -5) / (3, -4) / (3, 0) / (2, -5) / (-4, 0) / (4, -4) / (3, 0) / (-4, -2) / (0, -2)
84. 19.230[p] (4, 0) / (-1, 2) / (3, 0) / (-2, -2) / (2, -1) / (-5, 0) / (0, -3) / (3, -2) / (2, 0) / (-4, 0) / (-3, -2) / (1, 0) / 
85. 16.595 (1, 0) / (0, 3) / (-1, -1) / (4, -2) / (-4, -1) / (-5, 0) / (3, 0) / (3, -3) / (-3, 0) / (3, -2) / (5, -2) / (5, -2)
86. 16.734[p] (1, -3) / (-3, 0) / (0, -3) / (6, -3) / (0, -3) / (0, -1) / (3, 0) / (-4, 0) / (-3, 0) / (-4, 0) / (4, 0) / (6, -2) / (-2, -4) / 
87. 18.263 (0, 2) / (4, 1) / (0, -3) / (3, 0) / (-4, -1) / (0, -3) / (0, -2) / (-3, -3) / (4, 0) / (-1, 0) / (-1, -5)
88. (13.260) (0, -1) / (6, 3) / (3, 0) / (1, -5) / (0, -3) / (0, -3) / (-4, -3) / (-3, -3) / (-2, 0) / (5, 0) / (4, -5) / (-2, -4)
89. 21.852[p] (0, -1) / (-3, -3) / (3, 0) / (0, -3) / (3, 0) / (-2, -2) / (-1, -3) / (0, -3) / (0, -3) / (6, -4) / (2, 0) / (1, 0) / (6, -4)
90. 23.216[p] (1, 0) / (2, -1) / (-2, -5) / (6, -3) / (5, -4) / (-2, 0) / (-3, -3) / (-1, 0) / (0, -2) / (-4, -2) / (5, 0) / (6, -4)
91. 16.426 (1, 0) / (0, 3) / (3, 0) / (-3, 0) / (2, -4) / (4, -3) / (6, -3) / (-3, 0) / (0, -2) / (2, -1) / (0, -5) / (-4, 0) / (-3, 0) / 
92. 15.638 (0, -4) / (-2, 1) / (2, -4) / (-2, -5) / (0, -3) / (3, 0) / (-4, 0) / (0, -3) / (4, 0) / (-4, -3) / (0, -2) / (-2, 0)
93. 20.886[p] (-3, -4) / (1, -5) / (3, 0) / (0, -3) / (6, -1) / (3, 0) / (-4, -3) / (-5, 0) / (2, 0) / (3, -2) / (2, 0) / 
94. 14.737 (0, -4) / (-5, 4) / (2, -1) / (3, 0) / (3, 0) / (4, -2) / (0, -1) / (6, 0) / (-3, 0) / (-4, 0) / (0, -5) / (0, -1)
95. 17.157 (0, 2) / (1, 4) / (-4, -1) / (-5, -5) / (-3, 0) / (-3, -4) / (3, -3) / (3, 0) / (0, -4) / (0, -3) / (6, 0)
96. (25.061) (-2, 0) / (2, 5) / (-5, -5) / (-3, 0) / (5, -4) / (0, -3) / (4, 0) / (-3, 0) / (-3, -2) / (0, -1) / (0, -2) / (-2, -3) / 
97. 22.925[p] (0, -4) / (4, 4) / (-3, 0) / (-4, -4) / (1, -5) / (6, -1) / (-3, -3) / (3, 0) / (2, 0) / (-4, 0) / (1, 0) / (-2, 0) / (3, 0)
98. (13.761) (0, 5) / (6, 3) / (1, -2) / (-1, -4) / (0, -3) / (-3, 0) / (4, 0) / (3, 0) / (0, -5) / (-4, 0) / (3, -4) / (-1, -4)
99. 21.417[p] (0, 2) / (0, 3) / (0, -3) / (3, 0) / (-2, -5) / (3, 0) / (-1, 0) / (-3, -3) / (-4, -5) / (-2, 0) / (-2, -4) / (-3, 0) / (-3, 0)
100. 18.515 (0, 5) / (-3, 0) / (3, -3) / (1, -5) / (0, -3) / (3, -3) / (2, 0) / (6, -3) / (6, -5) / (0, -4) /


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## One Wheel (Dec 11, 2016)

Lid said:


> Did a Sq-1 a100 today ...
> Stats:
> a100 = 18.943 (σ = 2.12)
> ba50 = 18.626 (σ = 2.30)
> ...


Uff da. It takes me about 15.5 seconds just to execute the square-1 parity, let alone do the rest of the solve.


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## pipkiksass (Dec 11, 2016)

So Feliks got the WR back, for the first time in ages! Saw that one coming with the slow inevitability of... something highly mathematically likely!


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## kbrune (Dec 11, 2016)

pipkiksass said:


> So Feliks got the WR back, for the first time in ages! Saw that one coming with the slow inevitability of... something highly mathematically likely!



I agree. I knew it was coming. It was just a matter of time! A bonus of coolness that he broke the record while sitting next to Mats! No disrespect to Mats intended. I like both of those guys.

Why isn't the WCA starting to input records with 3 decimal points yet? It's becoming more and more relevant as the records become closer to plateau. If this solve had been 0.003 slower it would be a tie on the records page!!


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## muchacho (Dec 11, 2016)

I'm getting closer to my best 3x3OH times, 32.462 Ao5, first PB there in more than 4 months (it was 32.936).



Spoiler



2268 11-dic-2016 17:01:34 00:46.669 B2 D B2 F2 R2 D' R2 F2 D' F2 U2 F' D' R2 B R B L' B R
2267 11-dic-2016 17:00:39 00:32.407 U' B2 L2 U F2 U' B2 D' L2 B2 U' L' B' D2 B' U R2 F U2 B' R
2266 11-dic-2016 14:45:27 00:29.358 R D2 B2 L' R2 F2 L' B2 U2 R F' D2 L2 F2 D' F L' B2 F'
2265 11-dic-2016 14:44:36 00:28.662 R D2 R2 B2 F2 R F2 L U2 R' F R' U2 B2 D U' B' D2 R' F2 U2
2264 11-dic-2016 14:43:35 00:35.621 R2 B U2 L2 F' D2 U2 F2 D2 B' F2 L' B2 U B R D' B R2 U' B2


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## pipkiksass (Dec 11, 2016)

kbrune said:


> I agree. I knew it was coming. It was just a matter of time! A bonus of coolness that he broke the record while sitting next to Mats! No disrespect to Mats intended. I like both of those guys.
> 
> Why isn't the WCA starting to input records with 3 decimal points yet? It's becoming more and more relevant as the records become closer to plateau. If this solve had been 0.003 slower it would be a tie on the records page!!



Utterly inevitable when he was averaging 6.stupid and attending a comp every other week!

Did anyone else notice that Faz used a magnetic Gans prototype cube for both the WR and this week's Friday fours? Didn't take long for a manufacturer to start developing a magnetic cube...


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## mafergut (Dec 11, 2016)

And full step... don't know what to say, really. Give him a PLL skip and he can get a low 4 or high 3.


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## JanW (Dec 11, 2016)

Hey all! I haven't been around lately, it's been a busy couple of months. I've missed the last maybe 50 pages of posts here, but based on the last couple of pages it seems everybody is still going strong and I read about lots of nice comp successes. Congrats to all for those!

In the last couple of months I've done only untimed solves, but quite a lot of them. Mostly just playing with the cube while doing other stuff. Today I fired up cstimer for the first time since October, did 100 solves, and as a result I now had to come here and update pb Ao5, Ao12, Ao50 and Ao100 in my signature. First sub-25 Ao100! 

I had planned to go to my first comp in late November, but unfortunately I couldn't make it there. I'm keeping my eyes open if there is any other comp coming up nearby.


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## moralsh (Dec 11, 2016)

Again thanks, guys 

Yesterday was a great comp day, and also a bit weird. Today was definitely worse  but great fun overall

I had practiced just 5x5 for this comp as a month or so ago I checked I had fallen back to the around 3min mark due to lack of practice. I practiced and got back to 2:30-2:40 with a 2:45 Ao100 I was confident to get the 5x5 Average (2:48 to beat IIRC) to continue my PB streak. I did a bit of everything else a couple of days ago, everything horrible except 3x3 and 5x5.

I started the morning by messing up centres and PLL and doing a 3:20 then 3 not so good, not so bad solves I just needed another one of those but got a 3:25 real slow solve, Average messed, PB streak in danger.

I practiced a bit of 4x4 and also horrible, not even sub 1:30 I asked a friend for another cube as my GuanSu had popped twice during warmup. First solve in the average 1:10 single PB  I missed the average PB by 0.05 but that was a nice change of direction in the morning

5x5BLD First attempt was 29:xx after a good memo and reviewing more than I should and was off by 3 centres and some other wings and midges(probably an undone setup or something), I had time for another one so went for it. Memo was sluggish at first but went better after, I decided to review less this time and went well  28:31 success, New PB, I had tried just once since Villanueva Open in late October.

I have a very short Video of the last corners, here it is: 




Sorry for the lack of reaction  The only thing I say is "Bien" which translates to "good", I was happier than I show.

Then came 3x3OH which I just messed because I was not focused at all 1:39 Average

After lunch we had Pyraminx which got me another unexpected PB as I don't practice it at all, and the we had 4BLD

First solve was horrible, very slow memo (around 10m) and bad execution also, DNF in 16 minutes, second one was better, good memo ~5 min Ok centres and half of the wings around 8:20 And then I forgot to execute AC, after a minute an a half I executed corners (before I forgot them) after another minute or so I executed the rest of the wings. I decided to DNF (around 14m) because I just couldn't remember and needed some margin for the last solve (45m cumulative limit, It would have been a success if I had remembered it.

Third solve was also around 5 m memo and a good execution. 9:36, official sub 10 and a silver medal, yay!!

I have all 3 solves on vid, I'll edit and upload the success tomorrow.

Then we had 2x2 and I had to rush 3x3 (another sub 20) and miss 3BLD because I had a birthday I couldn't miss.

Today was way worse, disaster (last) at pyra, disaster (last) at 2x2, disaster (2/9 at multi) and a 21.9x average in second round of 3x3 because I still had my head on multi.

Next comp Jan, 21 

@h2f Nice 3BLD I just saw you had Maskow back  gotta read some of the last pages of the thread and get back to you guys.


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## h2f (Dec 12, 2016)

I happy with my 3bld solves in finals. 2nd solve goes like this and it gave me 7th place in Poland. If there's no lockup I would be 6th but it doesnt matter now. I'm happy I'm close to my official pb.





@moralsh It looks like Maskow is out of blindes now. He was back only for 3bld. He said he's burnt out for a long time and didnt practice mbld since last championships. When he heard Kamil Przybylski is going for 26 cubes and Witali Bułatow for 30 he said he cant beat them now and he didnt start. It looks like later or sooner he's out. But who knows what future brings. BTW he was Kamil Przybylski's judge in both attempts.


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## mark49152 (Dec 12, 2016)

Nice BLD performances @h2f and @moralsh. Shame to hear that Maskow is out but everyone's time comes to an end and there are exciting new people in all BLD events. I especially want to see how fast Kaijun and Berta can get!


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## h2f (Dec 12, 2016)

Thanks Mark. Small pauses but I'm happy with a style and rotations included. It looks like I can progress now if I push myself. That's what I'm gonna do.


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## mark49152 (Dec 12, 2016)

h2f said:


> Thanks Mark. Small pauses but I'm happy with a style and rotations included. It looks like I can progress now if I push myself. That's what I'm gonna do.


27 second memo is good. Looks like you need to make your execution more automatic then you'll be sub-1 easily.


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## h2f (Dec 12, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> 27 second memo is good. Looks like you need to make your execution more automatic then you'll be sub-1 easily.



My observation is that in this level both things are connected. If I memo faster I execute faster and vice versa. I need to remember cube only by 30-40 seconds so the memo doesnt have to be durable. Just enough to solve the cube. I've noticed that if I push myself I'm faster in both elements. And I know the faster execution will come natural way becasue I still have few comms not automatic. They become automatic with time.


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## moralsh (Dec 12, 2016)

I have made myself a roadmap to improve BLD now that I have some time:
1) finish corner comms list, and practice them all (I'm around half way)
2) chose better pair images for some cases
3) improve Multi/5BLD locations with extra checks 
4) try at least a multi or 5BLD every week
5) edge comms

Main objective is top 10 in Spain in every blind event (which as of now is 1:05 3BLD single, 1:52 mean and 8/8 multi)

I'll try to keep you posted.


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## mark49152 (Dec 12, 2016)

@h2f, I agree with you. Faster memo means less time to forget it. I memo corners first and if my edge memo or execution takes too long I often forget my corners.

@moralsh, a roadmap is a good plan. I also have one but no time to write about it now.


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## newtonbase (Dec 12, 2016)

I have a roadmap too. I'm meant to be doing nothing but corner comms at the moment. I do wish I could stick to it.


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## mafergut (Dec 12, 2016)

Selkie said:


> Qiyi WuQue 4x4 arrived today in the post. Instant main and complete game changer. Completely eclipses G4 stickerless and Yuxin Blue with TC springs. I am finding it hard to find a fault with it and it is getting better solve by solve. I seem to be averaging about sub 1:02 with it which is a drop of 2s overall just due to this cube.


Right now I still have a lot to improve about my 4x4 game in centers and edges, mainly lookahead but I could turn a bit faster during 3x3 stage if I was not worried about popping my G4. Would the WuQue help with that? In that case I would consider buying one.

Good luck with the comp!

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## JanW (Dec 12, 2016)

Are there any new must have 3x3 cubes out lately? A couple of months ago the Valk3 was the most hyped cube. Is that still the most interesting new cube on the market, or is there something else?


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## moralsh (Dec 12, 2016)

And the 4BLD video:


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## pglewis (Dec 12, 2016)

JanW said:


> Are there any new must have 3x3 cubes out lately? A couple of months ago the Valk3 was the most hyped cube. Is that still the most interesting new cube on the market, or is there something else?



I would think most excitement at the moment is magnetized versions of the top puzzles. I believe the two WR singles in the past few weeks have been magnetic cubes (Valk 3 and Gans Air).


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## pipkiksass (Dec 12, 2016)

pglewis said:


> I would think most excitement at the moment is magnetized versions of the top puzzles. I believe the two WR singles in the past few weeks have been magnetic cubes (Valk 3 and Gans Air).



This.

Valk 3 still rules the roost, and TheCubicle make a magnetised version for FIFTY DOLLARS!!! Alternatively, you can DIY, but I'm sure Moyu, QiYi, and Gans will release mass produced magnetic cubes at a fraction of the cost soon. 

Faz WR single was using a prototype 356 Air magnetic cube, which Gans presumably sent to him, meaning they're already "on it"...


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## JanW (Dec 12, 2016)

Interesting... So there seems to be some kind of revolution coming to the cubing scene if magnetic cubes become mainstream. Has anyone here tried one yet? It sounds like it could be one of those things you didn't know you were missing until you try one.

I might order a Valk, sounds like an interesting cube. I've never owned a Gans cube. Is the Air worth the price? Or is the 356S better?


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## h2f (Dec 12, 2016)

JanW said:


> Has anyone here tried one yet?



I did. And it makes a significant difference - cube is fast but more stable and it has nice clicky sound.


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## Jason Green (Dec 13, 2016)

pipkiksass said:


> This.
> 
> Valk 3 still rules the roost, and TheCubicle make a magnetised version for FIFTY DOLLARS!!! Alternatively, you can DIY, but I'm sure Moyu, QiYi, and Gans will release mass produced magnetic cubes at a fraction of the cost soon.
> 
> ...


I'm gonna order a Valk 3 magnetic tonight for Christmas! I told my wife I want it but she prefers me to order it.  We'll see if I can break the WR soon with it. Haha


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## newtonbase (Dec 13, 2016)

JanW said:


> Interesting... So there seems to be some kind of revolution coming to the cubing scene if magnetic cubes become mainstream. Has anyone here tried one yet? It sounds like it could be one of those things you didn't know you were missing until you try one.
> 
> I might order a Valk, sounds like an interesting cube. I've never owned a Gans cube. Is the Air worth the price? Or is the 356S better?


I've tried a GTS M and I have made my own front a Senhuan Mars. They are stable at looser tensions and the feel and sound of the magnets gives you better awareness if what is going on.


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## Logiqx (Dec 13, 2016)

You might recall that I taught a bunch of colleagues to cube around 2-3 weeks ago. It took 4 sessions in total (around 45 minutes each) and I've uploaded the slides should you be interested:

http://cubing.mikeg.me.uk/docs/beginner.zip

I was the only one who could solve a cube and 6 guys attended the sessions. A combination of slides and alg.cubing.net to illustrate the triggers / algs worked well in a group environment.

I could easily teach more people at the same time using this approach.

Maybe this is of interest to @Jason Green for his cube club?


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## Shaky Hands (Dec 13, 2016)

@Logiqx - that's really well laid out. Kudos.


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## Selkie (Dec 13, 2016)

@mafergut - Yes the WuQue will help with popping. I can pop the G4 and the Yuxin Blue but have yet to pop the WuQue

@Jason Green - I just looked at ordering a Valk M but they are back ordered until after Christmas now so perhaps a new year present to myself. I did try a Weilong GTS M at UKC last month and it did feel revolutionary.

@moralsh - Great break down of your comp there 

@Logiqx - Wow mate those PDFs are a work of art sir. I might try them on my son who I have taught 90% of solving to a couple of times until he lost interest 

At the comp this weekend my best chances I think are in 4x4 - 7x7. Have not done much 3x3 practice though that is what I am about to spend the next hour on. Unfortunately though with the redundancy stuff I have not devoted time to BLD so will have to skip that and concentrate on it over Christmas as originally intended.


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## Shaky Hands (Dec 13, 2016)

Selkie said:


> At the comp this weekend my best chances I think are in 4x4 - 7x7. Have not done much 3x3 practice though that is what I am about to spend the next hour on. Unfortunately though with the redundancy stuff I have not devoted time to BLD so will have to skip that and concentrate on it over Christmas as originally intended.



I suspect any successes I have will be in 4x4-7x7 too. Maybe Clock, although not picked it up in over a week.

I did learn Ortega for 2x2 in the week after UK Championships. Didn't take me too long, but would need to re-learn this week.

Looking forward to it all anyway.


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## Selkie (Dec 13, 2016)

Well just did a 3x3 ao100. 15.56 Ao100, 14.73 Ao12 and 14.04 Ao5 so not far off my pace given Ive hardly practiced 3x3 in a few weeks. Might try and do an ao100 a day. I really shouldnt take my foot off the sub 15 globally and in comp accelerator. Not at my age or I will never achieve it. Looking forward to ordering a stickerless Valk M when cubicle have stock.

Trying to mix practice between most events to be fair but certainly my practice has been weighted in favor of 6x6. Think I am getting close to globally sub 4m.

@Shaky Hands - Ortega 2x2 is a nice event to add to the arsenal mate. Hopefully my easiest comp PB to beat is my 9.x 2x2 average where I am sub 7 at home now!


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## earth2dan (Dec 13, 2016)

Just been lurking without posting lately, like a creep 

@Logiqx Those ppt slides are great. Nice work! I'm saving a copy in case my kids ever show some interest. Thanks for sharing 

I'm really eager to try a magnetic cube as well, but there's no cubing scene where I live and I've never been to a comp (nor will I any time soon) so I think my only option is to buy one. Like @Jason Green I'm planning to order one for myself as a Christmas gift, but I won't be able to justify that purchase until the new year. (I guess they're back ordered anyway so that's all well and good)

Regarding normal 3x3's. I can confidently say the Valk 3 is king in my collection right now. After nearly a year of keeping 8+ different 3x3's at my desk because I never know what's going to be my main on any given day, I now have only 2. My Valk 3 and my Cubicle Gans 356s. I have a Gans Air as well, but I haven't set it up yet. Out of the box, the Gans Air doesn't stand up to the Valk 3. I think the Valk 3 is a must have for any speedcuber.

I got my Galaxy Megaminx last week. It definitely feels better than my other mega's, but I do have a couple reservations with it. I love the idea of the core unit with interchangeable caps, but the major drawback is that the caps are the only colour, the pieces are all white. It's kind of like solving on a white stickered cube rather than a stickerless cube... and I'm not a fan of white stickered cubes  My other issue (and this might just be my complete ineptitude with Megaminx) is corner twists. I've only solved it maybe 5 times and I've had at least one corner twist on every solve. Any tips?


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## mafergut (Dec 13, 2016)

My experience with the Galaxy is the same. It corner twists quite frequently. So I gave up and went back to the SS Aurora.

Thanks, Chris for your advice on the WuQue. I have ordered a full set of Qiyi: from 4x4 to 6x6. The 3 cost me the same as a Valk M would have.

Sent from my Nexus 4 with Tapatalk


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## Selkie (Dec 13, 2016)

@earth2dan - I have got corner twists on the Galaxy but get less now. Not sure if I have automatically changed my turning style to suit. I certainly have not changed the tensions.

@mafergut - You shouldn't be disappointed Miguel. Its interesting. My mains at UKC just over a month ago were:-

2x2: Dayan
3x3: Valk 3
4x4: Cyclone Boys G4
5x5: Yuxin
6x6: Moyu Aosu
7x7: Moyu Aufo GT

Just a month later here is my main list:-

2x2: Moyu Weipo
3x3: Qiyi X-Man Design Tornado (Yes gone back to this because of its stability)
4x4: Qiyi WuQue
5x5: Qiyi WuShuang
6x6: Qiyi WuHua
7x7: Moyo Aufo GT

All changed apart from the 7x7 and I have no doubt that will be replaced when I can get my hands on a Qiyi 7x7


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## newtonbase (Dec 13, 2016)

Shaky Hands said:


> I did learn Ortega for 2x2 in the week after UK Championships. Didn't take me too long, but would need to re-learn this week.


I relearn Ortega before every comp.


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## pglewis (Dec 13, 2016)

JanW said:


> I might order a Valk, sounds like an interesting cube. I've never owned a Gans cube. Is the Air worth the price? Or is the 356S better?



I really like the stability of the Valk and it briefly became my main because of that, but both mine (black Cubicle premium and a stock stickerless) have become sluggish after about 2 weeks of solves. Nothing some tensioning and lube can't solve, I'm sure, it's just the irony that the Valk is what prompted me to loosen my Thunderclaps which I'm now loving more than ever.

My opinion on the Gans Air changes daily. I've had mine since Sept. but it never really suited me until recently. I seem to have found a sweet spot with the tensions and of course my turning style is evolving, I've enjoyed solves on it lately where I rarely used it in the past. I will say it's a unique feeling cube and it's very light. For those who like it I'm sure it's worth the price tag because I can't imagine getting that feel from any other cube currently out there. 

@Selkie seems to have similar cube preferences so now I'm gonna have to get a Tornado for the 3x3 collection.


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## mafergut (Dec 13, 2016)

@Selkie I had to refrain from adding a Yuxin 7x7 to the order to have a stickerless 7x7 (for some reason I bought the Aofu GT in black plastic) but it was too much money for just one single order and it also broke the "Qiyiness" of the order so I passed and I will wait until I can get the Yuxin or the Qiyi with a good discount.

Regarding 6x6 I cannot tell as I haven't even set up the Yuxin yet. Kevin says it is great when properly set up (and with a change of springs) but mine is just tolerable once I tightened it a bit. But on 4x4 and 5x5, the Wuque and Wushuang will have to be very, very good to dethrone my G4 and Yuxin. I hope they are 

I have done like 100 4x4 solves over the past couple of days just to bring my Yau up to where it used to be after a long hiatus on 4x4 but I can't really get past that. I'm still stuck at barely sub 1:30 global (got a 1:27.xx Ao100). I'm going to need much more than those couple seconds that the WuQue is giving you to get past 1:20 or 1:15.


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## JanW (Dec 13, 2016)

Okay, Valk it is. Ordered one, but I doubt it will make it here in time for Christmas.

Currently my main is a stickerless MeiYing. It's a pretty old model, but I just like it a lot. Tried some solves on my GTS today and couldn't match the times I get on the MeiYing. The GTS turns faster, but I also make more mistakes and have worse look ahead. Maybe it's too fast for me.

I'm still very happy with the KungFu 4x4. It's miles ahead of my G4. I probably won't be getting the WuQue anytime soon, though I don't doubt it's also a very good cube.


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## Selkie (Dec 13, 2016)

@pglewis - The Tornado has always been a great cube for me. It is a rare cube that still holds its stability when gripped tightly, and I do grip a cube. Whilst the Valk is exceptional it does mis-shape and lock when held too tight. This coupled with inacurate turning. Cannot wait to get a Valk M. Wonder how the magnets will help with my turning style.

@mafergut - I too have held off buying the Yuxin 7x7. Whist I did buy all the new 6x6's I see a pattern emerging with the Qiyi's and I am happy to hold out to complete the Qiyi set. When I say full set that does not include the Cavs 2x2 but that does not have such rave reviews. I have only just got the Weipo and think it is fantastic with a sub 6.30 Ao100 this evening.


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## newtonbase (Dec 14, 2016)

Selkie said:


> When I say full set that does not include the Cavs 2x2 but that does not have such rave reviews.


The Cavs was my main until it broke. I got a new one but it was never as good.


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## pipkiksass (Dec 14, 2016)

Don't think you can go wrong with the Valk, it's a great little cube! I have fairly small hands, and the size really helps. You wouldn't think you'd notice a couple of mm, but you really do. 

I'm currently doing an Ao100 3x3, because I haven't timed any 3x3 solves in a while, and got a 12.36 NL as part of a 17.51 Ao12 and 16.43 Ao5. It's also my first PB in 2 years at anything other than Ao50 and Ao100 (didn't used to do a lot of them), and its down from 13.33, so almost a second.

It's a nice scramble - 3 cross edges in place, and pretty nice LL. I'll try to reconstruct, although I've never reconstructed a solve before:

1. 12.36 U' B2 U2 F2 L' F2 L U2 L' B' R' B R2 U F' U' R' B2

inspection - X2

XCross - D2' R' D'
F2L2 - Y LUL'
F2L3 - Y' RU'R'U RU'R'
F2L4 - Y' L'U2LU2 LUL'
OLL - U'r'U2RUR'Ur
PLL - T perm with no AUF!  RUR'U'R'FR2U'R'U'RUR'F'

Let me know if there's any typos, or if it doesn't work!!!

Edit: just smashed Ao12 - 16.65 down from 16.93. Another 2 year old PB broken. Looks like this turning off the timer thing really works!!!



Spoiler: PB Ao12



Generated By csTimer on 2016-12-14
avg of 12: 16.65

Time List:
1. 14.79 F' U2 B F2 D2 B' L2 B' L B' U B L R2 B2 D' B U'
2. 18.02 R2 D2 F D2 F2 D2 F' L2 D2 L' D2 L D B' U' R2 D2 R' U'
3. 16.87 F R' D' B U F R B F2 D2 R2 B2 U2 L2 B2 L' U2 D2 R D'
4. (21.08) D2 B D2 L2 B' L2 F' L2 B' U2 L D' F2 L' U2 L B U' B2
5. 17.49 B R2 D2 R2 B' U2 B R2 B' L2 U' L U2 F2 D' F R2 D' R U'
6. 16.73 U2 B D2 F2 R2 F R2 F L2 B U' L R2 D B F D U' F'
7. 15.80 D2 R2 U R2 D B2 L2 U2 R2 D' L' R D B D U B U2 B
8. 17.11 B L2 F' D2 R2 B2 D2 U2 L2 B' F L' B L F2 L U B F' L U'
9. 16.75 B2 U2 F' L' B U2 B' D' U2 F' D2 B' U2 L2 U2 L2 U2 B D2 L
10. (12.36) U' B2 U2 F2 L' F2 L U2 L' B' R' B R2 U F' U' R' B2
11. 16.88 F R' U2 R U2 L U2 L' D2 L F2 R F' D L F R U2 B2 U'
12. 16.00 D2 B2 D2 U R2 F2 R2 F2 U' L2 U2 B' R' B D' R D F2 U' L2


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## JanW (Dec 14, 2016)

pipkiksass said:


> Don't think you can go wrong with the Valk, it's a great little cube! I have fairly small hands, and the size really helps. You wouldn't think you'd notice a couple of mm, but you really do.


Oh, it's smaller? I'm 6'5" and my hands are in proportion to that, so quite large. Though I didn't have any problems with the ZhanChi, which also is slightly smaller than the rest of my cubes. 

I'd also like to try a larger cube, but I don't know if there are any on the market that would be good for speedsolving.


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## One Wheel (Dec 14, 2016)

JanW said:


> Oh, it's smaller? I'm 6'5" and my hands are in proportion to that, so quite large. Though I didn't have any problems with the ZhanChi, which also is slightly smaller than the rest of my cubes.
> 
> I'd also like to try a larger cube, but I don't know if there are any on the market that would be good for speedsolving.



I'm more like 5'9", but I have large hands, and the 56.5mm of the thunderclap compared to my 57mm Zhanchi bothers me. I guess the Aolong V2 is supposed to be a good 57mm cube, and I think there is a 57 mm CB. I posted about this on one of the threads about the S-O Tempest, and @Sion said that they would definitely consider making a 58mm version. We'll see, but that would be nice.


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## pipkiksass (Dec 14, 2016)

JanW said:


> Oh, it's smaller? I'm 6'5" and my hands are in proportion to that, so quite large. Though I didn't have any problems with the ZhanChi, which also is slightly smaller than the rest of my cubes.
> 
> I'd also like to try a larger cube, but I don't know if there are any on the market that would be good for speedsolving.



It's 55.5mm, as opposed to the full-sized Zhanchi, which is 57mm.

The best 57mm cubes at the moment are the Gans or the Moyu Weilong GTS, I believe, although that's hearsay as the Valk is the only cube I've bought in the last 2 years.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## One Wheel (Dec 14, 2016)

pipkiksass said:


> It's 55.5mm, as opposed to the full-sized Zhanchi, which is 57mm.
> 
> The best 57mm cubes at the moment are the Gans or the Moyu Weilong GTS, I believe, although that's hearsay as the Valk is the only cube I've bought in the last 2 years.
> 
> ...



I was under the impression that both of those were 56mm cubes?


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## JanW (Dec 14, 2016)

My stickerless ZhanChi is definitely smaller than my stickerless MeiYing, which is supposed to be 56.5mm. I can see the difference clearly with my eye.

With larger I meant quite a bit larger. Maybe in the 60-65 range. I've seen some 70mm cubes in some stores, but that's probably too much...

It seems the reported sizes aren't very reliable. The YueXiao is marketed as 55mm, but this cube is again clearly larger than the MeiYing, which is supposed to be 56.5mm.


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## pipkiksass (Dec 14, 2016)

One Wheel said:


> I was under the impression that both of those were 56mm cubes?


My bad, the Weilong is 56.5 - https://thecubicle.us/moyu-weilong-p-5748.html
The Gans is 56 - https://thecubicle.us/gans-p-7937.html

Looks like the world of cubes is shrinking. Are shrinking!?! I just assumed, which is always dangerous...


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## Selkie (Dec 14, 2016)

@pipkiksass - Nice full step single and congratulations on the PB average. Always nice to beat a record that has stood for a long time.

The talk of cube size is good and it hasn't really bothered me, at least not between 55mm and 57mm, I have had mains that are all of those sizes though I guess 56mm feels most natural though I would not turn down a 57mm main if the other qualities are good.

When I went from full sized 4x4's to mini's I thought it made a huge difference but again the Qiyi WuQue is a larger 4x4 and I feel I am getting on really well with it.

Here is a 48.92 second single I caught on film this afternoon. Though it isnt a PB which is 48.39, it is the only sub 50s I have on film:-


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## pglewis (Dec 14, 2016)

pipkiksass said:


> and got a 12.36 NL



Been meaning to ask what "NL" is... guessing "not lucky?" 

Anyway, we need to get you to a comp, pronto! You need to be in the unofficial, official oldies list: https://github.com/Logiqx/wca-ipy


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## pipkiksass (Dec 14, 2016)

pglewis said:


> Been meaning to ask what "NL" is... guessing "not lucky?"
> 
> Anyway, we need to get you to a comp, pronto! You need to be in the unofficial, official oldies list: https://github.com/Logiqx/wca-ipy



Yeah, it's non-lucky, I.e. no accidental or fortuitous skips, etc.. so Matts short-loved WR would be NL, because he forced OLL skip.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## APdRF (Dec 14, 2016)

pipkiksass said:


> Yeah, it's non-lucky, I.e. no accidental or fortuitous skips, etc.. *so Matts short-loved WR would be NL, because he forced OLL skip.*
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



What about the PLL skip?


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## mafergut (Dec 14, 2016)

Regarding cube size discussion... Maybe that Zhanchi is a mini? That would be 54.5mm if I'm not wrong. The regular size Zhanchi is 57mm (I have 3 of them ). The GTS and the latest cubes are more like 56.5mm or 56.mm so the Valk3 is not that much smaller than any of them. I have big hands and always preferred 57mm cubes but I have managed to get used to smaller ones and I have no problem whatsoever with the Valk. I had some minor issues at the beginning with M slices but not any more.

Very nice singles, @pipkiksass and @Selkie. I'm so envious of that sub-50 4x4... I would be happy with a sub 1 minute.

And now... you will not believe this but I have realized that, many times, cube preferences are just subjective. I decided to get used again to 62mm 4x4s in anticipation for the WuQue I ordered. So, as my only stickerless 62mm 4x4 is the KungFu, I decided to give it a go. Back when I bought it I barely did like 10-20 solves with it and found it a bit too lose. Did 3-4 solves and had a massive pop so I tightened it half a screw turn. Did an Ao12 and got... PB Ao5 (1:15.xx) and PB Ao12 (1:19.xx), around 2 seconds off of each PB.

I think I'm changing mains and I hope to change again as soon as the WuQue arrives (probably next year).


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## muchacho (Dec 14, 2016)

Nice to hear you like the KungFu 4x4... 5 weeks have passed since I ordered it (stickerless), I hope it arrives soon but I'm getting a bit nervous. I want to practice 4x4 but don't want to use a non-stickerless one since that practice might not be of much use.


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## JanW (Dec 14, 2016)

mafergut said:


> Maybe that Zhanchi is a mini? That would be 54.5mm if I'm not wrong.


That sounds plausible. I checked my old Fasttech order, it does not mention "mini", but it does say 55mm. Probably a mini then. It was the first speedcube I bought and I didn't know anything about sizes back then. Not that it would have ever bothered me that it was that small.


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## pglewis (Dec 14, 2016)

On the subject of lucky solves, I recently stated I'd count any legit scramble... then I got a 2:00 flat on 4x4 that just feels wrong lol. It was a csTimer generated scramble but almost all centers were ready to go half-centers and like 4 or 5 solved dedges. By all rights it should have been a 1:50 or better but for a lousy 3x3 stage, on a night where I was struggling to get under 3 mins.


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## muchacho (Dec 14, 2016)

Count it, getting lucky is not a crime. I may go too far, since I usually hand scramble (which takes me more time) 4x4 or square-1, and I count those times with no remorse (since anyway, they are so bad that they will be beaten soon).


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## mark49152 (Dec 14, 2016)

JanW said:


> I checked my old Fasttech order, it does not mention "mini", but it does say 55mm.


There's no Zhanchi "mini" but they come in four sizes, 57, 55, 50 and 42mm. IMHO the 55mm actually feels the nicest, it's a good size and smoother than the others.


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## Jason Green (Dec 15, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> I relearn Ortega before every comp.


If you don't have to brush up on 2x2 you're practicing it too much.  Just kidding. Been there before but not last comp.


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## Shaky Hands (Dec 15, 2016)

Selkie said:


> My mains at UKC just over a month ago were:-
> 
> (...) 4x4: Cyclone Boys G4 (...)
> 
> ...



My WuQue arrived from Marty today. Probably an instant main. By far the most stable 4x4 I've ever owned, even at default tensions and factory lube.


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## JanW (Dec 15, 2016)

Did 100 solves today, which included 6 sub-20 solves and 10 sup-30 solves. I think the next milestone will be when I start seeing more sub-20s than sup-30s. A lot of the 30+ solves were because of messed up crosses. Sometimes I just can't find a good cross solution during inspection, then I panic and screw up everything. Need to get rid of that somehow.

Also new pb Ao5 and got my second fastest single ever, 15.18s (PLL skip). The single is one second slower than my pb, but 2 seconds faster than my previous second best. The 14s pb single from 2 months back was super lucky, I think it will be a while until I can beat that.


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## phreaker (Dec 15, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> There's no Zhanchi "mini" but they come in four sizes, 57, 55, 50 and 42mm. IMHO the 55mm actually feels the nicest, it's a good size and smoother than the others.



I have a 50 and a fleet of 42s. (4 of them?) I like the 42 to learn OH, just get the motions down, because you don't have the flexibility to actually do the real movement yet. So you can build some strength and movement, without needing to goto 56-57mm.

Also shape matters. The GTS always feels a bit "smaller" in my hand than a 356 or 356 air. I think the more rounded corner caps have something to do with it. Where "The Valk" feels a hair larger than it should... Mind you I still love it for OH, though mine's gotten sluggish. I need to go in and figure out why.


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## phreaker (Dec 15, 2016)

Shaky Hands said:


> My WuQue arrived from Marty today. Probably an instant main. By far the most stable 4x4 I've ever owned, even at default tensions and factory lube.



Is the Wuque worth it if you have an Aosu and are learning 4x4?


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## kbrune (Dec 15, 2016)

Hey guys. Read about the last 10 pages and there's way too much to comment on so I'll just say Congrats to all the progress posted! 

I'm looking for some help on my letter pair list. It's been a more difficult process then I thought! I have about 460 ish done but I'm struggling to find images for the last 40 or so. Here they are.

ID IH IN IR JN LA LF LR LW 
NR NS OM PJ RL RN TF TL
UD UE UF UG UJ UL UM UV
VH VN WC WJ WR 
YC YE YF YG YH YM YN YP 
YR YS YT YW


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## Rahul Tirkey (Dec 15, 2016)

Learn tricky f2l cases & try to make cross on bottom...
I'm learning oll ( 5 left) & pll


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## phreaker (Dec 15, 2016)

kbrune said:


> Hey guys. Read about the last 10 pages and there's way too much to comment on so I'll just say Congrats to all the progress posted!
> 
> I'm looking for some help on my letter pair list. It's been a more difficult process then I thought! I have about 460 ish done but I'm struggling to find images for the last 40 or so. Here they are.
> 
> ...



Why are you doing Y? Are you using a non-speffz scheme?


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## kbrune (Dec 15, 2016)

When I started bld I chose Y over X cause I could come up with words on the fly easier.
I'm not even sure what speffz means exactly. I simply assigned letters in rotational patterns starting with U face then going F, L, B, R then D face. I skipped Q, and used Y instead of X


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## pglewis (Dec 15, 2016)

JanW said:


> A lot of the 30+ solves were because of messed up crosses. Sometimes I just can't find a good cross solution during inspection, then I panic and screw up everything.



I discovered this little gem that I'm spending some time on daily: http://net13.net/Cube/Cross/


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## newtonbase (Dec 15, 2016)

kbrune said:


> Hey guys. Read about the last 10 pages and there's way too much to comment on so I'll just say Congrats to all the progress posted!
> 
> I'm looking for some help on my letter pair list. It's been a more difficult process then I thought! I have about 460 ish done but I'm struggling to find images for the last 40 or so. Here they are.
> 
> ...



Here's some sites I use to come up with pairs based on famous people mostly. 

http://peoplebyinitials.com
http://mt.artofmemory.com/files/forum/947/initials.txt
http://www.creative-remembering-techniques.com/initials_of_characters_and_actors.html
http://www.superherodb.com/characters/

Some suggestions 
ID - ID card 
IR - Infra red (goggles) 
LF - Laugh
NS - Nessie (Loch Ness monster) 
PJ Pajamas 
RL Rail 
RN - Rain
TF - Tiff (TV presenter on 5th gear) 
TV - Tail 
UD - Udder
UG - Caveman or Ugly 
UK - Ultra violet (sunbed or bad film) 
VH - Ving (Rhames) - in audio I use an _ng_ sound where the 2nd letter is H and some of the better ones have leeched over into my images
VN - Van 
WC - Toilet 
WJ - (potato) Wedge
YN - Yawn 
YT - Yacht
YW - Yellow


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## h2f (Dec 15, 2016)

kbrune said:


> Hey guys. Read about the last 10 pages and there's way too much to comment on so I'll just say Congrats to all the progress posted!
> 
> I'm looking for some help on my letter pair list. It's been a more difficult process then I thought! I have about 460 ish done but I'm struggling to find images for the last 40 or so. Here they are.
> 
> ...



ID - Indian (taken from Roman's list)
RL - Rolling Stones
VH - Vehicle
YH - Yamaha (motor bike)


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## Shaky Hands (Dec 15, 2016)

phreaker said:


> Is the Wuque worth it if you have an Aosu and are learning 4x4?



Hmm, I guess the answer to this is relative to how much spare cash you have and how much effort you want to put into 4x4. I've done a lot of 4x4 solves this year, but am still pretty slow at it. Much faster as a result of learning Hoya than I was just using standard reducton method though.

I used an Aosu while I was originally learning 4x4 and it served me fine until it popped and I couldn't find an internal piece. From there I got another Aosu before picking up a G4 which has been my main for most comps this year except for my short-lived fondness of the Yuxin 4x4 that lasted about 2 weeks.

Did several more solves on the Wuque today though and am really enjoying using it. Everything feels far more controllable than on other 4x4's.


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## One Wheel (Dec 15, 2016)

kbrune said:


> I'm looking for some help on my letter pair list. It's been a more difficult process then I thought! I have about 460 ish done but I'm struggling to find images for the last 40 or so. Here they are.
> 
> ID IH IN IR JN LA LF LR LW
> NR NS OM PJ RL RN TF TL
> ...



ID Idaho
IN Indiana
JN June or Djinn
LA Los Angeles or Louisiana
OM Organic Matter
UD UnDefeated
UP Underwriters Laboratories
YT YouTube
YW YelloW


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## mark49152 (Dec 15, 2016)

LF - leaf
NS - nose
VH - Van Halen
IH - incredible hulk 
UF - uncle Fester


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## newtonbase (Dec 16, 2016)

One Wheel said:


> ID Idaho
> IN Indiana
> JN June or Djinn
> LA Los Angeles or Louisiana
> ...


How do you visualize places?



mark49152 said:


> LF - leaf
> IH - incredible hulk


I use superheroes as my single letters in parity cases. I regret it now as I only get to use one per solve on average and they are such good images. It's too late to change unfortunately.


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## One Wheel (Dec 16, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> How do you visualize places?



Typically a map. You could imagine traveling there, but I think of that on a map too. For those examples I would probably use the shapes of the states: an axe, a rectangle with the bottom torn off, and a boot. It's also easy to think of where they are in relation to you, at least for me. Louisiana is basically due south of me, but I think of it as a little East, Indiana is East and a little south, and Idaho is West.


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## SenorJuan (Dec 16, 2016)

IH - Indian Head Penny; IN - Indian; IR -Iranian/Iraqi; JN - junebug; OM - Old Man; PJ - Pyjama/pajama; UG - Ugg Boots; UV - Ultraviolet lamp; VN - Van Morrison; WC - Water Closet ('restroom'); YN - wine; YF - wife; YT - White(y)


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## newtonbase (Dec 16, 2016)

SenorJuan said:


> IH - Indian Head Penny; IN - Indian; IR -Iranian/Iraqi; JN - junebug; OM - Old Man; PJ - Pyjama/pajama; UG - Ugg Boots; UV - Ultraviolet lamp; VN - Van Morrison; WC - Water Closet ('restroom'); YN - wine; YF - wife; YT - White(y)


I like OM - Old Man. I'll use it.


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## newtonbase (Dec 16, 2016)

One Wheel said:


> Typically a map. You could imagine traveling there, but I think of that on a map too. For those examples I would probably use the shapes of the states: an axe, a rectangle with the bottom torn off, and a boot. It's also easy to think of where they are in relation to you, at least for me. Louisiana is basically due south of me, but I think of it as a little East, Indiana is East and a little south, and Idaho is West.


That does sound usable. I find places difficult if I don't already have an image of them but you clearly do.


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## Selkie (Dec 16, 2016)

@Shaky Hands - Nice to hear you are enjoying the WuQue as much as I. Using it in Birmingham this weekend?

@phreaker - Even if you are learning 4x4. I would definitely purchase the WuQue if you are using the Aosu and budget allows but be aware it is nearer the size of the Aosu than the Aosu mini.

@mark49152 - Given the addition of another event I presume you are all cleared for Brum this weekend mate?

Loving all the talk of letter pairs. I am gradually building my list but given the advice I have learnt that very vivid images stick better, a fair chunk of the ones I have come up with so far are not to be repeated on a family friendly forum 

Doing some 2x2 practice and this average out of nowhere! (FYI did an ao100 the other day and overall sub 6.5s)

Average of 5: 3.89
1. (1.98) F2 U2 R2 F' U' R F' R U'
2. (5.40) R U F' R2 U' R' F2 R' U'
3. 5.23 U' F R' F2 U2 R' U' F' R'
4. 3.05 R U R' U2 R' F2 R F2 U'
5. 3.40 U2 R2 F' R' F' U2 R2 U' F'

The 1.98 is a PB and reconstructed that as:-
x2 - inspection
RUR'U' RUR' - Bottom face
top face skip, PBL skip
U' - AUF

I rarely get 3.x solves and I think I have less than 5 sub 5s ao5's so I will probably never beat this fluke average.


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## mark49152 (Dec 16, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> I like OM - Old Man. I'll use it.


Yeah that's a good one. 

Regarding visualisation, that's ultimately the key. LA is a good example. Obviously the city is the first thing to spring to mind, and maybe other objects can be combined into a scene in LA. That doesn't work well if you're using rooms of your house for multi or big BLD though, or if other places come up in the same memo. I try to avoid using places for letter pairs.

Same goes for things like NW = new. It's always the first to spring to mind when the letters come up, but it's hard to visualise consistently. 

These are examples of why preparing and learning specific images pays off.


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## mark49152 (Dec 16, 2016)

Selkie said:


> @mark49152 - Given the addition of another event I presume you are all cleared for Brum this weekend mate?


Hey Chris, yes I have a pass, but only for the Saturday, and I will likely be there only for pyra and 5BLD as I have to go pick up my new car in the afternoon. I had to search nationwide for the spec I wanted and fortuitously there was one only 30 mins from the Birmingham venue 

I'm doing pyra just to keep my comp PB streak going since doing 5BLD alone is likely to end it.

The whole plan is in doubt though as I've been sick this week and might not be better in time.

Hope to see all you oldies there


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## Shaky Hands (Dec 16, 2016)

Selkie said:


> @Shaky Hands - Nice to hear you are enjoying the WuQue as much as I. Using it in Birmingham this weekend?



Yes I suspect so. It's not as if I ever had a 4x4 cube that brought me any luck in competitions. 



mark49152 said:


> Hey Chris, yes I have a pass, but only for the Saturday, and I will likely be there only for pyra and 5BLD as I have to go pick up my new car in the afternoon. I had to search nationwide for the spec I wanted and fortuitously there was one only 30 mins from the Birmingham venue
> 
> I'm doing pyra just to keep my comp PB streak going since doing 5BLD alone is likely to end it.
> 
> ...



Look forward to seeing you there if you feel better in time.

I'll be joining you in Pyra for the same purpose. I've done about 15 minutes of Pyra practice for Birmingham after having registered for it at the last 2 comps but not knowing how to reliably solve it. By doing Pyra and 7x7 for the first time tomorrow I should be able to keep the PB streak alive.

6x6 is still my most likely new PB out of the events I've done before. Looking forward to that. If I get an unlucky pop, I'll have to wait to 2017!

Safe travels.


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## kbrune (Dec 16, 2016)

Thanks everyone for all the letter pair ideas. I'm down to 14 now!

Should be easy enough to find fillers even if they only fit one of the 2 letters.

As far as parity goes. I currently have actions for each letter. What do you guys use? I saw that one of you said superheroes.


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## mark49152 (Dec 16, 2016)

kbrune said:


> As far as parity goes. I currently have actions for each letter. What do you guys use? I saw that one of you said superheroes.


I put an extra Z on the end and treat it as just another letter pair.


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## One Wheel (Dec 16, 2016)

kbrune said:


> Thanks everyone for all the letter pair ideas. I'm down to 14 now!
> 
> Should be easy enough to find fillers even if they only fit one of the 2 letters.
> 
> As far as parity goes. I currently have actions for each letter. What do you guys use? I saw that one of you said superheroes.



It just occurred to me that for UD undead is a much better image than undefeated.


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## kbrune (Dec 16, 2016)

@mark49152
So you just have more images. No special kind? And the image with a Z will indicate parity for you?

@One Wheel
So picturing the previous image as a zombie? I like the idea but Not sure how else you could visualize undead


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## One Wheel (Dec 16, 2016)

kbrune said:


> [USER=35029]@One Wheel
> So picturing the previous image as a zombie? I like the idea but Not sure how else you could visualize undead[/USER]



Precisely. It doesn't have to make sense, it just has to be vivid. er. . . Memorable.


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## newtonbase (Dec 16, 2016)

kbrune said:


> I saw that one of you said superheroes.


Yes. They are vivid, easy to remember and there are plenty to choose from. 
I really like the zombie idea but doubt I could change now. Maybe I should try as I'm changing other things at the moment. 
Hope you are well enough to compete @mark49152. I'll be keeping my eye on Cubecomps. Rather annoyingly my wife is going to Birmingham tomorrow to collect a puppy for someone while I stay home and look after the kids.


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## mark49152 (Dec 17, 2016)

kbrune said:


> @mark49152
> So you just have more images. No special kind? And the image with a Z will indicate parity for you?


Yes. So FZ = Faz, UZ = Uzi, etc. Ultimately it amounts to the same thing, a special image for the last odd target; I just have a different rule for how to get to an image.


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## h2f (Dec 17, 2016)

Good luck at Brimingham!

It looks like the hot period in my job has ended now and I can push my mind in blindes. I'm also back to OH due to competition in my home time (I dont live there now but I work). Funny but I havent done CFOP OH for years and I'm over 40 now - I was expecting low 50 or around 1 minute. I also started to practice pyraminx - I've never done it earlier and my times are sub 13 ao100 after 200 solves. Funny.


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## muchacho (Dec 17, 2016)

CFOP OH?  You know Roux is better 

24.159 OH PB Single (25.621 27-jul)

2434 17-dic-2016 10:07:19 00:24.159 U R2 B2 L2 F2 L2 U F2 D2 B2 R2 F' R U2 B' R2 D U' B F D2


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## h2f (Dec 17, 2016)

muchacho said:


> CFOP OH?  You know Roux is better



I needed to try it. After ao100 with CFOP I'll ao100 with Roux and next I'll decide which to choose. It might be CFOP because my lookahead grows when I practice OH.


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## muchacho (Dec 17, 2016)

My desire to learn all CMLL grows when I practice OH, and I hate Nperm (especially) on OH. I've searched another one, I'm even considering permuting the corners during last slot, just to avoid Nperm or maybe learn the 6 algs and recognition (that's hard) to leave me with just 7 CMLLs (but probably I would need to solve the cube in only one orientation), but I'm just gonna be brave and try to learn and practice all the CMLL algs also for OH.


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## h2f (Dec 17, 2016)

muchacho said:


> My desire to learn all CMLL grows when I practice OH, I hate Nperm (especially) on OH. I've searched another one, I'm even considering permuting the corners during last slot, just to avoid Nperm or maybe learn the 6 algs and recognition (that's hard) to leave me with just 7 CMLLs, but I'm just gonna be brave and try to learn and practice the CMLL algs also for OH.



Dont you do Yperm for diagonal swap? Or Eperm? I used to do it in OH Roux.


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## muchacho (Dec 17, 2016)

Which algs exactly? I might try. A few days ago I started using R U R' U Jperm U' R U' R' ...not good but better that the Nperm I was using.


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## APdRF (Dec 17, 2016)

The N-perms are the worst PLLs! You can use the Y-perm for a diagonal swap CMLL:

F R U' R' U' (R U R' F') (R U R' U') (R' F R F')


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## muchacho (Dec 17, 2016)

Thanks, I'll try that!


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## h2f (Dec 17, 2016)

muchacho said:


> Which algs exactly? I might try. A few days ago I started using R U R' U Jperm U' R U' R' ...not good but better that the Nperm I was using.



This one for example:



APdRF said:


> F R U' R' U' (R U R' F') (R U R' U') (R' F R F')



I used to do Eperm which is built of 2 OLLs/COLLs but they are not great for OH.


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## Logiqx (Dec 17, 2016)

muchacho said:


> My desire to learn all CMLL grows when I practice OH, and I hate Nperm (especially) on OH. I've searched another one, I'm even considering permuting the corners during last slot, just to avoid Nperm or maybe learn the 6 algs and recognition (that's hard) to leave me with just 7 CMLLs (but probably I would need to solve the cube in only one orientation), but I'm just gonna be brave and try to learn and practice all the CMLL algs also for OH.



For 2H you should consider the E-Perm or Y-Perm for a diagonal swap:
(l U' R' D R U R' D') (R U R' D R U' R' D') x
(F R U' R' U' R U R' F') (R U R' U' R' F R F')

For OH you might consider the OH Y-Perm for a diagonal swap:
R2 U' R' U R U' x' U' z' U' R U' R' U' z U R

If you really want to use a N-Perm during OH, just use the RUL algs:
(R' U L' U2' R U' L) (R' U L' U2' R U' L)
(R U' L U2' R' U L') (R U' L U2' R' U L')

If you want some inspiration for OH CMLLs take a look at the COLL page in my signature.


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## muchacho (Dec 17, 2016)

Rotations are not my thing (but I do z2 in my solves), 4 of those may be too much for me. I'll check your page, I'll be learning algs for the next few weeks (also for two hands, almost done Antisune, only Sune set left).


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## Logiqx (Dec 17, 2016)

muchacho said:


> Rotations are not my thing (but I do z2 in my solves), 4 of those may be too much for me. I'll check your page, I'll be learning algs for the next few weeks (also for two hands, almost done Antisune, only Sune set left).



The rotations put me off at first but it is now my favourite and fastest diagonal swap for OH:

Antoine Cantin -


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## newtonbase (Dec 17, 2016)

My son made a little video on setting up a cube.


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## Logiqx (Dec 17, 2016)

I've just been looking at the results of the Birmingham Open:

@Selkie - 6 out of 10 possible PBs so far... great performances across the board!
@mark49152 - You didn't need the Pyraminx to guarantee a PB... almost sub-20 for 5BLD. Sub-20 average for Pyra. 
@Shaky Hands - Solid Pyraminx debut. PBs of course!


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## Selkie (Dec 17, 2016)

Thanks @Logiqx . Very pleased but particularly in 5x5 where I got my fastest ever solve. 10 PBs for the day. Looking forward to 3x3, 4x4 and 6x6 tomorrow.

http://m.cubecomps.com/competitions/1908/competitors/45

Indeed great results for @mark49152 and @Shaky Hands


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## mark49152 (Dec 17, 2016)

Good haul of PBs there Chris and Andy, and nice to see you today. Best of luck tomorrow!

I was pleased with my 5BLD result but apologies to Andy for the uncontrollable coughing fit that led me to abandon my second attempt. Thanks for judging anyway mate!


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## Logiqx (Dec 17, 2016)

Selkie said:


> Thanks @Logiqx . Very pleased but particularly in 5x5 where I got my fastest ever solve. 10 PBs for the day. Looking forward to 3x3, 4x4 and 6x6 tomorrow.
> 
> http://m.cubecomps.com/competitions/1908/competitors/45
> 
> Indeed great results for @mark49152 and @Shaky Hands



Wow. Some fine performances since I last checked. Well done guys!

I see there was also a WR average for Clock and a CR average for Square-1 (world #2).


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## mark49152 (Dec 17, 2016)

Logiqx said:


> I see there was also a WR average for Clock and a CR average for Square-1 (world #2).


Wow, nice job Evan and Charlie!


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## pglewis (Dec 17, 2016)

Congrats on all the comp successes and good luck tomorrow. 

Also, I just realized I wish Qiyi had reserved the WuQue name for their upcoming clock release... because, c'mon, "woo-koo clock"!


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## Shaky Hands (Dec 17, 2016)

Logiqx said:


> @Shaky Hands - Solid Pyraminx debut. PBs of course!



Thanks Mike. Good to get Pyra on my WCA profile, even if I only spent 15 minutes learning it. Overall, I think my Clock results are today's biggest success for me. My DNF was only out by ~45 minutes (i.e.: a 3/4-click) and the 25+sec solve was due to a timer problem. Fingers crossed I get at least 1 PB in something tomorrow too.



Logiqx said:


> I see there was also a WR average for Clock and a CR average for Square-1 (world #2).



Yes. Big applause for both of them. Also 2x AfR for Jesse.



mark49152 said:


> Good haul of PBs there Chris and Andy, and nice to see you today. Best of luck tomorrow!
> 
> I was pleased with my 5BLD result but apologies to Andy for the uncontrollable coughing fit that led me to abandon my second attempt. Thanks for judging anyway mate!



Thanks Mark. Was good to see you popped in; am really happy for your 5BLD success (how often can people say they've beaten their competition PB by 13 minutes?) and don't worry too much about the coughing... I have a really good immune system!


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## h2f (Dec 18, 2016)

@mark49152 you make me jelaous. You did 5bld again.


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## newtonbase (Dec 18, 2016)

Good luck today @Selkie and @Shaky Hands


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## mark49152 (Dec 18, 2016)

h2f said:


> @mark49152 you make me jelaous. You did 5bld again.


Once the baby arrives I won't be going to comps for a few months, so if I get any cubing time at all, I might focus on our race to 6BLD  So far I have not even tried a full attempt, and haven't had a single success on obliques.

Good luck today guys!


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## muchacho (Dec 18, 2016)

This morning I got a 22 seconds OH PB that I was not able to reconstruct (even if FB was just 2 moves) so I've started filming some solves, this is the best I got:






2506 18-dic-2016 15:38:57 00:28.495 R2 B2 D2 F2 L2 B2 U L2 U B2 U L B' R D L2 F2 D B D B


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## Logiqx (Dec 18, 2016)

More


Selkie said:


> Thanks @Logiqx . Very pleased but particularly in 5x5 where I got my fastest ever solve. 10 PBs for the day. Looking forward to 3x3, 4x4 and 6x6 tomorrow.
> 
> http://m.cubecomps.com/competitions/1908/competitors/45
> 
> Indeed great results for @mark49152 and @Shaky Hands



Another bunch of cracking results today!

Great results for Chris in 6x6 and a very nice 3x3 average. Don't worry about the 4x4 times - brown stuff happens.

The same goes to Andy in 3x3. You had great results for 7x7 and clock yesterday.


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## h2f (Dec 18, 2016)

muchacho said:


> This morning I got a 22 seconds OH PB that I was not able to reconstruct (even if FB was just 2 moves) so I've started filming some solves, this is the best I got:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Nice. I've decided to stick with CFOP. I got PB's in ao50 and ao100 only after 150 solves. It helps also in normal solving.


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## pglewis (Dec 18, 2016)

@Shaky Hands: Nice collection of PBs. So close there on 3x3, started off really promising only to end up pummeled by that counting 48 .

@Selkie: at least one PB in nearly every event and crushed your 5x5 single (hellooooooo WuShuang!) 

@mark49152: I smell a podium coming soon... or an outright win in 5 bld. Also, congrats on the expanding family!


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## pglewis (Dec 18, 2016)

pglewis said:


> I discovered this little gem that I'm spending some time on daily: http://net13.net/Cube/Cross/



I'm surprised at how quickly this exercise seems to be paying dividends. I haven't done full splits in some time but I broke it down enough to know that slow crosses are a common issue responsible for my solves bleeding sup 40 still. Or low 30s instead of sub 30. The good ones are okay but my bad ones are too frequent and drag the average down. After just a few days working diligently on 4-move and 5-move crosses I knocked a couple seconds off both my best ao5 and a012. Seeing a lot more low 30s now and had another pair of 29.x in an ao12 a couple days ago. Reaching the point where a 35 just gets a shrug now. 

csTimer can give optimal cross solutions (Tools, function: solve cross, use input to paste the scramble) and I had to resort to that a few times even on some 4-movers that I couldn't figure out optimally. The creator of that drill suggests doing a level until you're 100%; it's their opinion this isn't one of those areas to push yourself, but get completely proficient at each level before moving up.


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## h2f (Dec 18, 2016)

@muchacho, David - Antoin Cantin has a very nice Yperm. Looks scary but once you got it it's easy. It's full of sexy moves:
R2 U' R' U R U' x' U' z' U' R U' R' U' z U R


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## Shaky Hands (Dec 18, 2016)

Logiqx said:


> Another bunch of cracking results today!
> 
> Great results for Chris in 6x6 and a very nice 3x3 average. Don't worry about the 4x4 times - brown stuff happens.
> 
> The same goes to Andy in 3x3. You had great results for 7x7 and clock yesterday.





pglewis said:


> @Shaky Hands: Nice collection of PBs. So close there on 3x3, started off really promising only to end up pummeled by that counting 48 .



Thanks both. When first asked by other competitors how I did at 3x3 I said "abysmal" however I now prefer the word "wretched" !! In all fairness, bad result there. The 3rd solve was weak, full of lockups and badly coordinated. The 4th solve had a corner twist on the D layer that I'm not sure my judge had noticed before I pointed it out. And then the 5th solve was probably just a result of damaged confidence from the previous 2 and the realisation that the best I could get would be a sup-30 Ao5. I even said to the judge "maybe it's time I just retire!"

I ended up laughing about the whole round not long afterwards. 

I was more annoyed about 6x6, which I've put a lot of effort into, only to get a pop (one cubie missed another competitor's ear by about an inch when it went flying across the room.) I ended up doing a "rage quit" on the solve for the DNF. I'll get another PB for this in 2017 for sure.

3BLD, whilst not a success, I can maybe call a competition PB as I managed to get 2 attempts in rather than the single attempt I'd got in previous comps. (I'm such an optimist here, aren't I? ) Second solve was slightly better (off by 1 flipped edge in the K position and several corners) - although it turned out as I suspected whilst executing edges that I had twisted one of the corners so it would have been unsolvable anyway.

4x4 I got a token PB (<1s improvement from previous PB) to finish off the day, then hung around to help out with judging.

Enjoyed the comp, although Clock remains the only thing I felt went well for me. But hey - it's not just about the results. Good to see @mark49152 and @Selkie once again and it was all as entertaining as ever.

PS: @newtonbase, looks like about 60% chance I will be at Manc Open 2017.


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## Selkie (Dec 18, 2016)

Thank you all for your kind words I will read up and reply later tonight or in the morning. But a quick update post comp...

A great set of results yesterday followed by a mediocre set today but I cannot complain with 13 comp PBs.

Great comp, expertly organised as ever and always a pleasure to spend time with fellow solvers especially @Shaky Hands and @mark49152

I did film every solve and will upload most averages but first set edited is my 3x3 Round 1 PB average. Not as low as I had hoped but talk about an 'average'...



Selkie said:


> ...Well just did ... 15.56 Ao100...



That 15.56 average of 100 in the week. I got a 15.57 average today. Cannot get much more average than that!


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## newtonbase (Dec 18, 2016)

Well done everyone on your successes and near misses. 
You'll get there with the 3BLD @Shaky Hands. You learn from every attempt. I'm still aiming for top 20 in the UK but I'll need one of my best solves to get there. Hoping to get some practice in over Xmas. I do hope you do get to Manchester. I won't be doing an Indian unfortunately as I'm staying with my brother that night.


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## bubbagrub (Dec 18, 2016)

Well done Mark, Andy & Chris -- some really great results there, although I know you all had some disappointments too. Sad to have missed it, and probably won't make Manchester either (my daughter's birthday weekend).

Didn't know you had a baby on the way, Mark -- congratulations! Look forward to seeing them become a cuber some day...


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## Selkie (Dec 19, 2016)

@Shaky Hands - Your clock is getting so much better mate. I know the 3x3 round 1 and then the pop on 6x6 was so unfortunate and frustrated you after all the practice but was great to see you recompose for 3BLD. You are such a great guy and very motivating to be round dude. Roll on some more comps in 2017 mate.

@mark49152 - Sorry I missed your 5BLD mate, I happen to be walking the entire Aston area of Birmingham in search of a coffee at lunchtime. Great PB and great intro to pyraminx too. Don't worry about a few months out for the new little one. A break from comps is often a good thing. I have had at least 10 PBs per comp in the three this year after a 3 year comp break. Learn some new stuff without worrying it will affect your times.

@Logiqx , @pglewis , @newtonbase , @bubbagrub - Thanks all for the kind words. Nothing more motivating to improve than this thread so thanks for that too 

---

Well I am now on a 2 month self imposed timer ban for 3x3. I have learned COLL and Winter Variation too many times and then not incorporated them in my solves. So its slow solves only and making sure I incorporate Winter Variation first (With right and left mirrors), then COLL and perhaps Summer Variation. I am hoping that after the initial hit on my times and a lot of slow work on edge control, it may get me the other -0.5 seconds to get to sub 15 globally and in comp.

---

Uploaded a few more videos. Most pleased all comp with this 5x5 average on Saturday:-


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## Shaky Hands (Dec 19, 2016)

Selkie said:


> @Shaky Hands - Your clock is getting so much better mate. I know the 3x3 round 1 and then the pop on 6x6 was so unfortunate and frustrated you after all the practice but was great to see you recompose for 3BLD. You are such a great guy and very motivating to be round dude. Roll on some more comps in 2017 mate.



Awww, you're too kind. I must find a way to ruin my reputation now! 



Selkie said:


> Uploaded a few more videos. Most pleased all comp with this 5x5 average on Saturday:-



Excellent 4th solve Chris. Well done!


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## JanW (Dec 19, 2016)

Congrats all on the comp pbs! Looks like you all had a great time!

I've been doing daily Ao100s the past week. Today was a good one, improved all pb averages Ao5-Ao100. This was also my first Ao100 with more sub-20s than sup-30s (7-6). All sub-20s were full step.

I just counted that I currently know 22 OLLs. I used to know more, but have forgotten a few in the past couple of months. I should probably focus on learning more of these.


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## JohnnyReggae (Dec 19, 2016)

@Selkie - Chris, do you have a particular training schedule ? I simply grab a cube and start timing my solves for the most part. I must admit the time I did only concentrate on slow turning to help train look ahead I did see quick improvement. But being a procrastinator of note, I don't seem to go back to specific training.


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## Selkie (Dec 19, 2016)

JohnnyReggae said:


> @Selkie - Chris, do you have a particular training schedule ? I simply grab a cube and start timing my solves for the most part. I must admit the time I did only concentrate on slow turning to help train look ahead I did see quick improvement. But being a procrastinator of note, I don't seem to go back to specific training.



It is far too easy to just solve over and over as practice and I am as guilty of it as anyone. I do try and break the pattern of practice such as I have decided to do for the next couple of month but there is nothing quite like concentrated, structured practice to maximise improvement. If you have not read it this practice guide by @Escher is an invaluable resource and absolute required reading Brent. I try and read it every few months to refresh my memory when my practice gets slack:-

https://www.speedsolving.com/forum/threads/how-to-practice.27870/


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## mafergut (Dec 19, 2016)

Wow! Another couple pages of posts to catch up today. Congrats on all your comp PBs guys! You are so great and I envy you so much for goint to comps... and I am so repetitive 

There are some incredible solves there and it's nice to be able to watch some of them on video. @Selkie, Chris, as always watching your 5x5 average is so motivating, seeing that I don't need to turn any faster, just more fluid and with better lookahead!

Well, this was not an official result but I just shaved off some extra seconds in my road to 4x4 sub-1min single. It's now so, so close that it hurts! 

1. 1:02.54 F2 Fw2 L F Uw B D2 L' Uw R Fw R Uw R F' B' Rw' Uw' B2 Fw2 Uw Fw' D2 F2 Rw D' B F' Uw2 B' Fw D2 Fw' D2 Fw Uw2 L2 Rw2 R F


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## Shaky Hands (Dec 19, 2016)

Just finished my first ever Skewb Ao12. I've had a partially-solved Skewb for about a year, but eventually learned how to solve it this lunchtime.

The first time below is not a typo. It was that bad.

(10:06.95), 1:15.98, 1:09.27, 1:27.69, 1:05.66, 1:09.10, 1:03.27, (52.06), 1:01.50, 1:19.55, 56.30, 1:17.20

Whilst I'm sure that practice will reduce my times from these early ones above, the TPS that I see at comps is insane on both Skewb and 2x2. Right now, despite taking some advice, I can barely even hold the thing!

In a few weeks I'll see what my times are. Hoping to knock ~25 seconds off the 1:10+ average above.

I might order a stickerless Skewb as a reward for myself if I can get down to a sub-1m average. It feels weird to be solving a stickered puzzle again.


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## pglewis (Dec 19, 2016)

Selkie said:


> It is far too easy to just solve over and over as practice and I am as guilty of it as anyone. I do try and break the pattern of practice such as I have decided to do for the next couple of month but there is nothing quite like concentrated, structured practice to maximise improvement. If you have not read it this practice guide by @Escher is an invaluable resource and absolute required reading Brent. I try and read it every few months to refresh my memory when my practice gets slack:-
> 
> https://www.speedsolving.com/forum/threads/how-to-practice.27870/



This is gold.


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## Logiqx (Dec 19, 2016)

Crusty cuber stats updated... just click the link in my signature.


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## JohnnyReggae (Dec 20, 2016)

Selkie said:


> It is far too easy to just solve over and over as practice and I am as guilty of it as anyone. I do try and break the pattern of practice such as I have decided to do for the next couple of month but there is nothing quite like concentrated, structured practice to maximise improvement. If you have not read it this practice guide by @Escher is an invaluable resource and absolute required reading Brent. I try and read it every few months to refresh my memory when my practice gets slack:-
> 
> https://www.speedsolving.com/forum/threads/how-to-practice.27870/


Thanks for the link. I will definitely be checking it out


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## JohnnyReggae (Dec 20, 2016)

A while back I watched a YouTube video on the 4x4 Burr puzzle and it really intrigued me so I decided to make one for myself. I know they are commercially available, however as I had a 4x4 available for modding I figured I'd give it a go. In hindsight there are things I would do differently and take my time doing certain parts, but with my limited time I did what I could in a couple days with it. It definitely was a much easier mod that my last few outings. 

So I present the 4x4 Burr/Wall Puzzle ...

   

The stickers are not that great IMO and is a job that I don't really enjoy, although I do love the end product. I need to find a better more efficient way of doing stickers as the time taken stickering seems disproportional to the rest of the build.


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## pipkiksass (Dec 20, 2016)

JohnnyReggae said:


> A while back I watched a YouTube video on the 4x4 Burr puzzle and it really intrigued me so I decided to make one for myself. I know they are commercially available, however as I had a 4x4 available for modding I figured I'd give it a go. In hindsight there are things I would do differently and take my time doing certain parts, but with my limited time I did what I could in a couple days with it. It definitely was a much easier mod that my last few outings.
> 
> So I present the 4x4 Burr/Wall Puzzle ...
> 
> ...



Looks awesome, great job! I have a spare 4x4, but wouldn't know where to start, may have to look in to it!!!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## JohnnyReggae (Dec 20, 2016)

pipkiksass said:


> Looks awesome, great job! I have a spare 4x4, but wouldn't know where to start, may have to look in to it!!!!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


It's actually quite an easy mod. Tape the cube up with masking tape and cut out double blocks. Take those pieces that are stuck together with masking tape and superglue them together. Then fill in the gaps with sculpting putty, sand smooth, paint ... sticker


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## pipkiksass (Dec 20, 2016)

JohnnyReggae said:


> It's actually quite an easy mod. Tape the cube up with masking tape and cut out double blocks. Take those pieces that are stuck together with masking tape and superglue them together. Then fill in the gaps with sculpting putty, sand smooth, paint ... sticker



So I guess you could eliminate the tedium of stickering by going sand, spray paint base coat (primary/white), mask off 3 adjacent sides, spray paint cubies on one face, repeat x 5 for a stickerless option?

How is it to solve?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## mafergut (Dec 20, 2016)

Very nices mod, as always, Brent @JohnnyReggae!
I also have some 4x4s that I don't use laying around but I get frustrated with bandaged puzzles that have move restrictions. Anyway it looks amazing!

And, talking about 4x4s, after changing mains 1 week ago now all my 4x4 PBs are on the KungFu CangFeng. I'll miss you, CB G4  The latest ones to be beaten, after yesterday's single, were the Ao50 and Ao100. Inching closer to sub 1:20 global but still some seconds to be shaved.


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## muchacho (Dec 20, 2016)

Looks beautiful scrambled! (exactly the reason why I will probably buy a Dayan Tangram)

I guess my first "mod" will be this: (I have a white 5x5, and I've ordered a stickerless one and also a black one that will donate one of its faces to the stickerless)


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## mark49152 (Dec 21, 2016)

5BLD from Birmingham. Memo was OK, execution was a shaky and slow to start. Towards the end I made a wrong move during a corner comm but suspected it straight away, paused, thought it through, and corrected it. That threw me again though and I was really slow to finish corners. Even on Y-perm I'd lost my muscle memory


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## Shaky Hands (Dec 21, 2016)

Great solve @mark49152. You earned it. Congratulatons.


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## newtonbase (Dec 21, 2016)

Good recovery there @mark49152. Well done. 

Some pro judging too @Shaky Hands, waiting for the execution to actually start before placing the card.


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## Logiqx (Dec 21, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> 5BLD from Birmingham. Memo was OK, execution was a shaky and slow to start. Towards the end I made a wrong move during a corner comm but suspected it straight away, paused, thought it through, and corrected it. That threw me again though and I was really slow to finish corners. Even on Y-perm I'd lost my muscle memory


If anything is worthy of page 1337 on Tapatalk that's it Mark! 

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk


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## h2f (Dec 21, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> 5BLD from Birmingham. Memo was OK, execution was a shaky and slow to start. Towards the end I made a wrong move during a corner comm but suspected it straight away, paused, thought it through, and corrected it. That threw me again though and I was really slow to finish corners. Even on Y-perm I'd lost my muscle memory



Awsome.


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## mark49152 (Dec 21, 2016)

Thanks everyone for the encouraging words. This thread is the best source of motivation out there. 



Logiqx said:


> If anything is worthy of page 1337 on Tapatalk that's it Mark!


New goal - post a sub-10 by page 2000


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## JohnnyReggae (Dec 21, 2016)

pipkiksass said:


> So I guess you could eliminate the tedium of stickering by going sand, spray paint base coat (primary/white), mask off 3 adjacent sides, spray paint cubies on one face, repeat x 5 for a stickerless option?
> 
> How is it to solve?
> 
> ...


I like that idea of spraying different colours ... hhmmm could be an interesting project.

The solve is very interesting as you have to swap modes in a sense. You use principles from a 3x3x2 and a 2x2x3 to solve it. Simply scrambling it is an interesting exercise. Something like I experienced with the Curvy Copter as you do deliberate algorithms to scramble pieces. Getting it from a totally bandaged state to a point that you can actually work with it is quite an exercise in itself. I really like the solve though as it requires some active thought.


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## Selkie (Dec 21, 2016)

@mafergut - Oh wow that is getting close to a sub 1. Its as much a mind game as anything and I remember being in that position but hopefully you will get one soon 

@Shaky Hands - Nice to see you adding a few new events lately mate. Skewb is a weird beast. It took me a long while to understand how the corners moved and still takes me a while to solve the first face (I use Sarah Strong's Beginner Method). Once that clicks you should shave a lot off your times


@Logiqx - Thanks for updating the arthritic puzzle times 

@JohnnyReggae - That is an awesome modded puzzle, such workmanship. Love it 

@mark49152 - Awesome 5BLD, really impressive given you weren't well


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## Shaky Hands (Dec 21, 2016)

Selkie said:


> @Shaky Hands - Nice to see you adding a few new events lately mate. Skewb is a weird beast. It took me a long while to understand how the corners moved and still takes me a while to solve the first face (I use Sarah Strong's Beginner Method). Once that clicks you should shave a lot off your times



Thanks. I learnt from legoboyz3's tutorial, which I presume is more or less the same method. When I watched Sarah's in the past it was a bit too fast for me to follow and she said in the video to go to her site if she was going too fast... so I did... and the site was down!

I have been making some decent progress at Skewb since my first Ao12. I lubed it after the 10th Ao12 which made a considerable improvement to my times:







PS: Yes I know the date column is wrong. Oops.


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## Selkie (Dec 21, 2016)

@Shaky Hands - Wow that is some awesome improvement mate. I only average about 15-17. Good work!

@MarcelP - First time I have used your alg trainer mate. Using it for Winter Variation. Love it


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## JanW (Dec 21, 2016)

Nice skewb improvement there @Shaky Hands!

I got a quite decent new Ao5 pb today:

Generated By csTimer on 2016-12-21
avg of 5: 20.27

Time List:
1. (23.70) D' L' B2 U2 L B2 R' F2 R2 B2 D2 R' B' F2 R' D L' F2 D' L U'
2. 20.66 D' R2 B2 D' R2 U R2 B2 D' U2 F' D L R B L U' R F U2 R'
3. (18.78) R' B2 D' B2 D2 L2 F2 L2 D R' F' D L U B' D R' D'
4. 18.99 F R2 B L2 R2 D2 R2 U2 B' R2 B2 L D' B' L U F2 D' F U R'
5. 21.16 B2 U' L D2 R' U' R F' R' B R2 D R2 U' L2 D2 F2 U' R2 F2 L2

That's almost 1 second faster than previous best. Otherwise a pretty bad session, Ao100: 25.00. I learned 8 new OLLs yesterday, now I know 30. Quite a lot of the bad times today were because of new OLLs, which still aren't that fast for me to recognize and to recall the alg.

I need one more 100 solve session, then I can report an Ao1000 from the past 2 weeks.


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## newtonbase (Dec 21, 2016)

Shaky Hands said:


> Thanks. I learnt from legoboyz3's tutorial, which I presume is more or less the same method. When I watched Sarah's in the past it was a bit too fast for me to follow and she said in the video to go to her site if she was going too fast... so I did... and the site was down!
> 
> I have been making some decent progress at Skewb since my first Ao12. I lubed it after the 10th Ao12 which made a considerable improvement to my times:
> 
> ...


Excellent improvement there. The Manchester cut off won't be a problem at all.


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## h2f (Dec 21, 2016)

Sub-38 ao100 in OH. I was to get sub20 single but I've stuck during OLL (FRU) which happen to be PLL skip. I got 21.39 on it. Valk3 is awsome.


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## mafergut (Dec 21, 2016)

Another 4x4 Ao100 and another 3+ seconds off my previous best one. Down to 1:22.9x. If the WuQue gives me a couple seconds I should be able to manage sub 1:20 next year 
Finally, after 1 week in "processing" status my Lightake order with the 3 Qiyis shipped today.


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## pglewis (Dec 21, 2016)

Still not in full command of my improved lookahead but still making steady progress. When I'm in a groove I'm near the point where I expect one or two sub 30s in an ao12. Got a pair of 28.x back to back last night-- best solves so far other than the 23-- plus a surprise 37 with a green cross. White looked awful and green had three edges in place, just had to drop in the fourth and swap an opposite pair. It's still a bit fleeting, plenty of sup 40s showing up and they like to gang up on me, seems to fall off a cliff when it goes. Sub-30 ao5 and sub-35 ao12 are probably good next milestones. Death to all solves above 35!



Logiqx said:


> Crusty cuber stats updated... just click the link in my signature.



I don't see @Shaky Hands in there?

@mafergut: I suspect you will really like the WuQue in the 3x3 stage.


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## mafergut (Dec 21, 2016)

Nice improvement, Phil @pglewis I'm sure those targets are within reach with some practise. My lookahead comes and goes, actually and some times I have to actually force myself to look elsewhere instead to what I'm doing. That's more evident with things like 4x4, where I have to force myself to start looking for edge pieces when finishing the last center, etc.

Regarding the WuQue I'll really looking forward to getting it after so many rave reviews and favorable comments in this thread as well. And I can say I have fully re-adapted to 62mm 4x4s so that should not be a problem.


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## mark49152 (Dec 21, 2016)

@Shaky Hands is still a spring chicken.


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## pglewis (Dec 21, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> @Shaky Hands is still a spring chicken.



Sometimes it's good to push yourself... officially joining the over 40 club isn't one of those times


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## pipkiksass (Dec 21, 2016)

First ever timed 5x5 solve - 9:34.36!

Feliks is quaking in his boots.

Still struggling with parity, but now have a WuShuang, and it's LOVELY.

I can tell when I do/don't have last 2 edge parity, but I really want to work out how to reduce to simple cases, rather than learn new algs when I'm still procrastinating and avoiding OLL!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Logiqx (Dec 21, 2016)

Last week's posts by @mark49152 prompted me to learn how to speed solve the skewb.

My "triple-sexy" method sucked big time so I decided to learn Sarah's beginner method last week and her intermediate method tonight. My times took a hit at the start of tonight's session but they were getting a lot better towards the end of the Ao100.

I started on the original MoYu skewb but I received the magnetic one today. It feels great!

Here's my progress so far...


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## mark49152 (Dec 21, 2016)

Logiqx said:


> Last week's posts by @mark49152 prompted me to learn how to speed solve the skewb.


Was that the post where I said that skewb was evil?


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## Logiqx (Dec 21, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> Was that the post where I said that skewb was evil?


I almost broke my skewb last night. I tried to pick it up with a hand that was already holding a 4x4. Skewb pieces all over the kitchen floor!

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk


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## Shaky Hands (Dec 22, 2016)

Logiqx said:


> Last week's posts by @mark49152 prompted me to learn how to speed solve the skewb.
> 
> My "triple-sexy" method sucked big time so I decided to learn Sarah's beginner method last week and her intermediate method tonight. My times took a hit at the start of tonight's session but they were getting a lot better towards the end of the Ao100.
> 
> ...



Great progress Mike.

In fact, the magnetic Skewb was part of my final Amazon order of the year and should be with me tomorrow.

I'm not planning on learning too much more with Skewb for the time being. I'd be happy just maintaining what I've learned so far to try to get a single and average at Manchester if I can make it. Of course, there's plenty of things I want to get done that I may or may not have time to do...

My current practice notes, roughly in order of priority:

Get 6-8 specific OLL cases into muscle memory.
Replace the F triple-sexy F' OLL with the R' U' R U' R' U R U' R' U2 R version. Been putting this off too long.

Learn the mirror of the Big Cube case Dd R F' U R' F Dd'. I really should know this by now with the amount of Big Cube practice I do, but have probably been putting this off too long too.
Ongoing 3BLD practice, separating memo and execution.
Review Mollerz's Clock tips video.
Incorporate parts of Rob Yau's alternative Clock method for NL cases.
Review the Ortega for 2x2 that I knew a few weeks ago but have forgotten.
Learn 2-look OLL for OH (probably won't happen anytime soon.)


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## pglewis (Dec 22, 2016)

@Logiqx: 

1) I think your OH algs for the N perms got reversed on your PLL page

2) That _(R' U L' U2' R U' L) (R' U L' U2' R U' L)_ is almost guaranteed to become my new go-to two handed alg. for Nb (I'll probably keep using the RUD version of Na)


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## CLL Smooth (Dec 22, 2016)

I found a way to record my slidy puzzle game.
I did a spontaneous Ao5 on 15 puzzle: 17.87
Then a nearly PB single on 24 puzzle: 24.63


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## muchacho (Dec 22, 2016)

Have you tried this one?
https://www.reddit.com/r/speedsliding/comments/50w9kk/v270_released/






That's not me, I think I averaged like 45 seconds or so


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## CLL Smooth (Dec 22, 2016)

I practiced it a bit back when I had a computer. I was never as good with the keypad or mouse as I am with the touchscreen though.


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## Logiqx (Dec 22, 2016)

pglewis said:


> @Logiqx:
> 
> 1) I think your OH algs for the N perms got reversed on your PLL page
> 
> 2) That _(R' U L' U2' R U' L) (R' U L' U2' R U' L)_ is almost guaranteed to become my new go-to two handed alg. for Nb (I'll probably keep using the RUD version of Na)



Thanks for letting me know. I'll fix it soon.


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## Shaky Hands (Dec 22, 2016)

Quick question... I seem to remember a tutorial once talking about a website that can calculate an optimal CFOP Cross for a given scramble. Is anyone aware of what site this is and if it still exists?


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## JanW (Dec 22, 2016)

I finished my Ao1000 with an embarrassingly bad performance. Last Ao100: 25.26. Overall the Ao1000 is 24.94. The last 100 solves were the worst 100 solves, which is kind of annoying. I thought my times were supposed to improve with practice... 

I think it's some kind of mental thing. Here are the first 50 solves of today:


Spoiler



Generated By csTimer on 2016-12-22
avg of 50: 25.26

Time List:
1. (19.92) F B2 U' F' U2 R2 U2 L' U D2 R B2 D2 R B2 R2 D2 L D2
2. 24.75 R B2 L2 D2 R D2 L B2 L2 F2 U' R U2 B D2 L D F R D'
3. 23.77 D2 F2 R2 B2 R2 D' B2 R2 D' B2 U F R2 B D' F U2 R' F2 L F'
4. 22.37 B U2 B2 L2 D2 L2 F D2 U2 R2 L' U R' B L2 B' D U L' B2
5. (19.62) L2 U B2 D R2 D2 U' L2 U L2 F2 R' F' L2 R U' F2 U B U F'
6. 28.50 B2 R' D L U2 F U B' U' F2 R2 F2 R2 D2 R2 B' U2 D2 R2 B2
7. 22.91 U F2 L2 D2 B2 U L2 D B2 U2 R2 F L' D' U B U' L' R' U' R2
8. 21.17 F L2 D' R2 U2 F2 R2 D2 R2 U2 B2 F' R U2 L2 U L' U' F2 U'
9. 22.11 D B2 D' F2 D B2 F2 L2 U R F2 L U2 B2 F2 R2 D F U'
10. 21.14 F U2 B R2 B' L2 U2 B2 L2 F' U2 D F U F2 R' B U2 L' D R2
11. (38.27) L2 F D2 F' R2 F2 L2 B F2 D2 F' R D' F R2 B' U2 B2 F' U2
12. 28.93 D2 B2 U2 B' F2 L2 R2 F' R2 U2 F2 U' R2 U L' U' F2 L' R' F2 D
13. 23.71 F L2 D2 R2 D2 U R2 F2 U L2 B2 D' L U F' U2 R' D' R' F2 D2
14. 25.27 L2 F2 U R2 F2 U2 R2 D R2 F2 U2 L' R B' D2 R D2 U2 F' U F
15. 27.13 U' F2 R2 B' L2 F2 L2 U2 L2 B R2 U' L' F' U L U R B' R
16. 24.15 U2 F' D2 L2 F' L2 D2 B2 R2 U2 F R U' F2 L B2 L2 U' B D F'
17. 24.16 F' L2 B' D2 B' U2 B' R2 F' L2 U B' R' B2 U L2 D L F2
18. 25.29 D F' L F L U R' B' D U2 F2 B2 R2 B2 R' F2 U2 L F
19. 26.47 D L2 D B2 F2 U' L2 U2 L2 R2 F L' F2 D2 R' U B F2 D' B'
20. 23.42 L2 B2 R U2 L R2 F2 R' B2 R' D' F L F2 U R B D L' U2
21. 29.08 B2 D2 R2 B' L2 R2 D2 B U2 F' L2 R B F' U R F' R' D' B F'
22. 28.81 B R2 B' L2 R2 U2 B' U2 L2 F' D' L F2 U' L' R' B' D2 U2 L'
23. 22.86 R' U2 F R2 U F' R2 U' R' D2 R L D2 B2 D2 R L D
24. 29.50 U' D2 R' F' D B D2 L F' B2 U' R2 L2 B2 U B2 D B2 R2 U'
25. 24.82 U2 B2 L' R2 U2 B2 R2 F2 L F2 D2 B' U F' R' B D' U' R D R'
26. 26.87 F2 D' F2 D' L2 D R2 U2 L2 D R' B U' F R B L D2 F L
27. 31.39 F' R U2 B' R' D2 F2 D B L D L2 D' R2 F2 R2 F2 U' F2 B2 R2
28. 22.39 B' U2 F' D2 B U2 R2 D2 F' U2 B2 U B2 R2 F' U R' D' B2 U' F'
29. 23.80 L2 B2 D2 R' F2 U2 R U2 L U2 R D R2 B' D2 R' B2 F' D R' U2
30. 26.34 B2 D' R2 D2 R2 F2 R2 B2 R2 D' B' R U' L D B2 F2 L2 B' U2
31. 22.91 B' D2 L2 D' B D R' F D L U2 F2 R2 L' B2 R2 U2 D2 F2
32. 29.20 L' D L2 U F2 L U D2 R F' L2 D2 F2 L2 B' L2 B' L2 D2 B
33. 24.82 B2 R2 D2 R2 U' L2 R2 U' L2 F2 D' B L2 D2 F2 U F L' B2 R2 F
34. 29.16 R' F' B' U' B U' D2 L' D' R2 D2 F2 D' B2 R2 D' F2 R2 F'
35. 24.48 L2 B' D2 L2 U2 F' L2 F R2 F2 L2 D' L B L U2 B2 D2 U'
36. 25.59 L' R2 D2 R' B2 L D2 F2 D2 L B2 F' L2 U' R F2 R' B2 R' B' U
37. (31.77) D2 R2 U2 L2 U B2 D2 U B2 L2 U B' D2 U F' L2 R D' B' R' D'
38. 20.56 D F2 U2 B2 F2 L' F2 R' D2 F2 D L U2 R' F' L2 R' D L
39. (33.19) B2 D' R2 F2 D F2 D L2 D' B U2 L2 F L' F D2 F' R' F'
40. 25.07 B2 L2 R2 U L2 D2 R2 F2 U F2 U2 F' D' F2 D2 L R2 F2 D2 B R
41. 23.54 U2 F2 R F2 R F2 R U2 F2 L' R2 F' D' U L' R' F' U B2 L' F
42. 25.95 U' R' D2 L R' D2 F2 D2 L' B2 D2 R' U F' U' R B' D' R' U2 R
43. (17.58) L2 U2 R U2 L' R' B2 R' D2 U2 R' U F2 R U R2 D2 F' U2 B2
44. 29.75 L2 D' R2 B2 L2 U2 B2 D' B2 U2 F2 B' L R U2 F D' F2 L R U'
45. 23.46 U2 R2 D' F2 L2 U' F2 U2 F2 R2 D' R B2 D' L2 B2 L' B' U F L'
46. 27.61 D2 R U2 F2 L' R' U2 B2 L2 F D' F U' R' B2 L' R B2
47. 20.51 B2 D L2 D' F2 D R2 D F2 R2 U' L R' D R B R2 D R2 U L'
48. 25.39 L U' R2 B L2 B' R2 L U2 F2 D' B2 L2 U' L2 D2 L2 B2 U L'
49. 26.43 L2 B2 L B2 R F2 R F2 R B2 U' F2 R D' F L D' R' U' F
50. 25.51 R' L2 U2 F2 U2 B R2 B' L2 U2 F2 L B2 D' U2 L' U' F U' B2


First 10 solves everything is good. The 22s solves feel like standard solves, while a good solve is well below that. Solving is relaxed and I feel like I should easily be able to average sub 23. Then comes one major mess up in solve 11 and everything goes south from there. After that the solves that feel like standard solves end up at around 25s. The feeling of "this is not going very well" seems to add 10-15% to my solve times.

It might also be some concentration issue. After 50 solves I took a short break before continuing. When I continued I again started with a sub-23 Ao12, then it got a lot worse. Maybe I should try getting up and taking a few steps around the apartment every 12 solves or so.


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## muchacho (Dec 22, 2016)

50 solves is all I can do without needing a break (mentally, less solves if doing OH but because of pain), if I'd stop every 12 I would probably need some warmup solves to be fast.

Sub-30 OH Ao5 and some other PBs 

Single: 22.150
Ao5: 29.107
Ao12: 32.373
Mo100: 35.850

After more than 6 weeks I have received the Kungfu 4x4... it's too late now, I'm focused on OH.


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## mark49152 (Dec 22, 2016)

Shaky Hands said:


> Quick question... I seem to remember a tutorial once talking about a website that can calculate an optimal CFOP Cross for a given scramble. Is anyone aware of what site this is and if it still exists?


I used to use JARCS but I think it's dead now. There's a recent thread on the topic.


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## Logiqx (Dec 22, 2016)

Logiqx said:


> You might recall that I taught a bunch of colleagues to cube around 2-3 weeks ago. It took 4 sessions in total (around 45 minutes each) and I've uploaded the slides should you be interested



I've uploaded my PPT slides to GitHub and added a link to my signature:

https://github.com/Logiqx/cubing-docs

I've also added the "improver" method which builds on the "beginner" method.


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## Shaky Hands (Dec 22, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> I used to use JARCS but I think it's dead now. There's a recent thread on the topic.



Thanks Mark. Think I've found that thread now (https://www.speedsolving.com/forum/threads/jarcs-doesnt-work-anymore.61669/ ?). Will follow it in case of any updates.


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## pipkiksass (Dec 22, 2016)

Logiqx said:


> I've uploaded my PPT slides to GitHub and added a link to my signature:
> 
> https://github.com/Logiqx/cubing-docs
> 
> I've also added the "improver" method which builds on the "beginner" method.



How are your colleagues getting on? Any of them got hooked? If so, you should ask Marty at PuzzleStore.uk for an introducer discount! [emoji6] 

In other news, still figuring out 5x5 parity, playing around with easy cases. It seems like every 5x5 solve ends in a G perm, ugh! But at least with my QiYi I can do my 3x3 PLLs, my old SS 5x5 was so locky I had to 2 look some.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Logiqx (Dec 22, 2016)

pipkiksass said:


> How are your colleagues getting on? Any of them got hooked? If so, you should ask Marty at PuzzleStore.uk for an introducer discount!



They're doing pretty well. They can all solve independently using LL cheat sheets and most are on the verge of doing everything from memory. One of the guys got his first solves without cheat sheets on the train last night. He timed himself later in the evening and got 2:36 which isn't bad for his first timed solve.

I have a feeling that several guys will be practicing over Christmas. Several of the company branded cubes are missing from the office space so people are using them at home. 

My better half also surprised me the other night after a fair few drinks in the pub. I was casually solving when we got back home and she solved it using the method that I taught her quite some time ago!


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## pipkiksass (Dec 22, 2016)

Lol, this is why you should learn new puzzles - second ever timed 5x5 solve: 5:07.83, PB by 4 mins 27 seconds!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## pglewis (Dec 22, 2016)

pipkiksass said:


> Still struggling with parity, but now have a WuShuang, and it's LOVELY.



As if I haven't gushed enough over the WuShuang in here, I just _love_ that puzzle, my favorite in the collection and I'm far from being a 5x5 guy. 



Shaky Hands said:


> Quick question... I seem to remember a tutorial once talking about a website that can calculate an optimal CFOP Cross for a given scramble. Is anyone aware of what site this is and if it still exists?



csTimer will do this as well as EOLine. Bring up the Tools pane and select "solve cross" from the drop down.


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## Shaky Hands (Dec 22, 2016)

pglewis said:


> csTimer will do this as well as EOLine. Bring up the Tools pane and select "solve cross" from the drop down.



Great, I've sussed out how that works now. Much appreciated Phil.


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## pglewis (Dec 22, 2016)

There is also this cross trainer that I've been raving about for a week or two: http://net13.net/Cube/Cross/

There are tutorials that taught me to solve the cross relatively, there are tutorials that taught me to evaluate "good" and "bad" edges in order to multi-task... and then they pretty much left me to my own devices. This has taught me a lot of new ways to deal with cross solutions.


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## pglewis (Dec 22, 2016)

And for those familiar with the Michigan J. Frog cartoon, I couldn't resist a quick new meme.


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## pglewis (Dec 22, 2016)

One last random thought for the day on picking up new OLLs. I'm sure it's not a new idea but using a new alg even in 3-look gives me a lot more practice in real solves. Been trying that with the square algs to handle all L cases and H for line.


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## pipkiksass (Dec 22, 2016)

pglewis said:


> There is also this cross trainer that I've been raving about for a week or two: http://net13.net/Cube/Cross/
> 
> There are tutorials that taught me to solve the cross relatively, there are tutorials that taught me to evaluate "good" and "bad" edges in order to multi-task... and then they pretty much left me to my own devices. This has taught me a lot of new ways to deal with cross solutions.



I'll have to give this a go, still struggle with crosses occasionally.

What has helped me recently is watching a couple of walkthroughs on YouTube, where good cubers move good edges up to the U face to protect them. Say there's a couple of edges that are correct relative to each other, but inserting them would break up a 'good' edge. 

Also setting up bad edges as good, so that after inserting 3 edges you end up with that edge just a couple of moves off. Sometimes I used to leave that edge till last, or just plan 3 edges and deal with it later, now I realise a quick L/R/whatever at the start could make it just a turn away from solved after the other 3 edges.

I think I now understand 5x5 parity, after about half a dozen solves. With 4 tredges to go I can normally see what kind of case is coming, and try to force a case I know. I use a combination of my 4x4 dedge swap (Uw RUR'U' R'FRF' Uw') and my 4x4 OLL parity alg for true parity cases. 

I'm not convinced that learning further cases would significant improve my times, but I'm happy that I can solve the thing without cheating in consistently about 5 minutes. I'm sure my times will plummet fairly quickly, and I'm now at the stage where I enjoy it as a puzzle, rather than being frustrated by lots of edge cases.

I might work on an "intuitive 5x5 last 2 edges" guide for how to reduce the 10 cases simply to parity/non-parity. Pretty sure they can all be solved with a combination of 3 algs (4x4 edge swap, same with Uw+Dw' setup, and 4x4 OLL parity), with a maximum of 2 easy algs plus setup moves per case, I'll have a play...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Logiqx (Dec 22, 2016)

pipkiksass said:


> I think I now understand 5x5 parity, after about half a dozen solves. With 4 tredges to go I can normally see what kind of case is coming, and try to force a case I know. I use a combination of my 4x4 dedge swap (Uw RUR'U' R'FRF' Uw') and my 4x4 OLL parity alg for true parity cases.
> 
> I might work on an "intuitive 5x5 last 2 edges" guide for how to reduce the 10 cases simply to parity/non-parity. Pretty sure they can all be solved with a combination of 3 algs (4x4 edge swap, same with Uw+Dw' setup, and 4x4 OLL parity), with a maximum of 2 easy algs plus setup moves per case, I'll have a play...



That's a pretty common approach. You can solve all of the cases intuitively with slice-flip-slice and the OLL parity alg.

There are 15 L2E cases btw (16 including solved) - http://cubing.mikeg.me.uk/Big/L2E.pdf


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## pglewis (Dec 22, 2016)

I lied, one more random thought: no OLL alg list I've seen lists sledge-sexy as a solution for anti-gun?!


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## CLL Smooth (Dec 22, 2016)

pglewis said:


> One last random thought for the day on picking up new OLLs. I'm sure it's not a new idea but using a new alg even in 3-look gives me a lot more practice in real solves. Been trying that with the square algs to handle all L cases and H for line.


Good stuff. I always do this when learning new algs.


pglewis said:


> I lied, one more random thought: no OLL alg list I've seen lists sledge-sexy as a solution for anti-gun?!


It's a really good OLLCP alg.


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## muchacho (Dec 22, 2016)

A cube price comparison site (in an old web design style) I'm working on:
http://cubealot.com/Qiyi-Thunderclap

Thoughts? Do the world need this?

I'll try to add more cubes (arrgh there are so many cubes) and a couple of stores, a search box, and done... and maybe some price history graphs (but maybe not).


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## Shaky Hands (Dec 22, 2016)

pglewis said:


> I lied, one more random thought: no OLL alg list I've seen lists sledge-sexy as a solution for anti-gun?!



Nice solution. I guess it's not listed on OLL sheets as the F2L is incomplete when this is performed.


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## pglewis (Dec 22, 2016)

Shaky Hands said:


> Nice solution. I guess it's not listed on OLL sheets as the F2L is incomplete when this is performed.



That would be _exactly_ why, I totally missed that; it's not anti-gun. Just didn't notice when I cycled through on the cube either.


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## CLL Smooth (Dec 22, 2016)

pglewis said:


> That would be _exactly_ why, I totally missed that; it's not anti-gun. Just didn't notice when I cycled through on the cube either.


I guess I thought you meant the inverse of sexy-sledge.


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## JohnnyReggae (Dec 23, 2016)

Have been picking up the 4x4 a little bit more lately and during my 3 last sessions I've managed to beat all my 4x4 PB's 

single = 1:10.46
mo3 = 1:19.56
ao5 = 1:20.41
ao12 = 1:25.78
ao100 = 1:31.48

About time really, but then again if only I practiced 4x4 more I'd see more progress ... similarly with 5x5

Been wondering about getting the QiYi WuQue ... I'm still liking the Yuxin Blue with TC springs, but I would like something a little more stable. How does the WuQue compare to the Blue ?


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## Selkie (Dec 23, 2016)

Good progress with skewb there @Shaky Hands and @Logiqx and also really impressive OH improvement @muchacho

@JohnnyReggae - The WuQue is definately a cube worth getting and far more stable than a Yuxin Blue with TC springs. I do like my Yuxin with TC springs but the WuQue is an awesome cube

Loving your goals list @Shaky Hands Andy. Awesome way to practice to have structure to it. Hope you do not mind if I follow suit my friend 


Winter Variation (I am 19 cases into the 27 case set with ones I still remembered and new cases - since Biringham Open last weekend)
Winter Variation Left Hand Mirrors
Summer Variation
COLL
Don't touch a timer with 3x3 until the end of February!
Parity Algs - Learned 3 new cases from Callum Hales-Jepp at Birmingham. A coupe of really interesting variants involving Half a Y perm, PLL parity, rest of the Y perm, a 2 gen OLL, a 3 edge swap OLL, a single edge swap. Learning these will make COLL far more valuable for me on bigger cubes since I will be able to turn any OLL parity (50% of solves) case into a COLL case.
Megaminx 4 Look Last Layer
Square-1 Optimised Cube Shape


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## bubbagrub (Dec 23, 2016)

Goals time, eh? Good idea! My goals are all aimed at July 13th 2017 in Paris...

Get to a point where I don't DNF FMC solves any more, and ideally average sub-30
Be confident that I can average sub-10 at skewb
Sub-30 at Square-1 (maybe learning optimal cube shape, like you, @Selkie, although that seems like a somewhat terrifying prospect...)
Finish learning full OLL
Those ones are the ones I really care about, but a few other lower priority ones:

Sub-20 at 3x3 (doesn't seem likely, but it's good to set ambitious targets...)
Consistently sub-1:30 at 4x4
Sub-45 at OH
I've really been focusing on Skewb pretty exclusively (apart from FMC) for the past month or so, and have made good progress. I'm pretty consistently sub-10 (last few ao100's) but still not consistent enough to be sure that any given ao5 will be sub-10. 

Anyway, I hope you're all doing well and have a fantastic time over the Christmas / New Year break. Looking forward to seeing many of you again at competitions in 2017, and perhaps meeting a few more of you too.


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## mark49152 (Dec 23, 2016)

Here are the goals I posted in the goals thread:-

Make it to at least Worlds and UKC
3BLD: sub-1:10 official, average sub-1 at home
4BLD: sub-6 official, average sub-5 at home
5BLD: sub-20 official
MBLD: 10 points official
6BLD: success
4x4: sub-1 official average and global at home 
5x5: sub-2 official average and global at home (stretch goal)

Have a great holiday season everybody!


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## pglewis (Dec 23, 2016)

About 2 weeks away from comp (which are clearly not as frequent in my neck of the woods as UK comps!). Pre-comp: 


Lots of timed solves daily
Continued cross drills and blind pair practice in slow solves
PLL spamming to mitigate PLL amnesia (I have not been sticking to this lately)
Solve in noisy/distracting environments (also have not been doing this enough)
Relearn Varasano/Ortega for 2x2
Post-comp: 


Turn the timer off and only do timed check-ins once or twice a week at most
Continue expanding known OLLs
Re-evaluate where the lowest hanging fruit is for improvement with consistent sub 30 being the next target


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## pipkiksass (Dec 23, 2016)

Goals for 2017...

Finish learning OLL (top priority)
Be globally sub-17 @ 3x3 (currently sub-19)
Be globally sub-1:15 @ 4x4 (currently floating just under 1:30, after about 6 weeks)
Sub-10 3x3 single
Sub-1 4x4 single
Improve at 5x5 (currently takes about 5 mins, after about 6/7 timed solves - no idea what 'good' is at 5x5, but maybe sub-3... is that too ambitious?)
Maybe learn pyra. I used to know a few L3E algs, but I've forgotten them.
Buy and solve a 6x6. Get relatively fast at it.
Don't give up cubing when I get well.
Get well.
Not necessarily in that order.


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## One Wheel (Dec 23, 2016)

pipkiksass said:


> Improve at 5x5 (currently takes about 5 mins, after about 6/7 timed solves - no idea what 'good' is at 5x5, but maybe sub-3... is that too ambitious?)




I run just under 2:00 on 4x4, and roughly 3:45 on 5x5 with I think one sub-3 single. If you're running sub-1:30 on 4x4 I think sub-3 on 5x5 is very reasonable, maybe even as low as sub-2:30.


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## kbrune (Dec 23, 2016)

@pipkiksass
I average anywhere from 1:25 to1:30 on 4x4 and am currently averaging about 2:45 on 5x5. I feel like I could get below 2:40 and possibly as low as 2:30 with more focused practice. (I've only ever done timed solves as practice)

Considering you've already matched my 4x4 times. I'm sure you'll be in the 2:30 range once you become comfortable with your method


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## mark49152 (Dec 23, 2016)

@pipkiksass : A good target on 5x5 is double your 4x4 times, for a similar amount of practice. 

@Logiqx did some analysis that shows this is the typical ratio for official averages, and it's always held for me personally, since I started taking 5x5 seriously.


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## pipkiksass (Dec 23, 2016)

Thanks @kbrune, @mark49152 - nice consistent answers: if I'm looking to average 1:15 for 4x4 then 2:30 with a similar amount of work. I think I prefer 4x4, marginally, and will likely have to invest a fair amount of time to shave 10 seconds off. Ergo, I think 3:00 is a reasonable goal for 5x5. I'm thinking there may be 2:30ish singles.

I've just done my longest ever 5x5 session to date, with a stonking 6 solves! Average was just over 4:30, with a 4:08 single, which (unsurprisingly) is PB. I think I spend quite a lot of time looking for edges. I have a feeling this and centres will just improve naturally with practice, I'm already finding that last 2 centres are getting easier. I just use intuitive commutators to make a 2x1 block on one face, and then to move the matching single piece around on the same slice until I pair it up. I'm sure there's a library of cases and algs, but (as with F2L), I much prefer the intuitive approach, except for very awkward cases.

3x3 stage is much more awkward than on 4x4, where most PLL and OLL algs can just about be used. I use a lot of M slice moves on 3x3 for both OLL and PLL, which doesn't translate nicely. Again, I'm sure this will come with practice. I'm reluctant to learn a significant number of new algs just for 3x3 stage on big cubes, especially when I still need to learn full OLL (**slaps self on wrist**), but can feel it going that way. I think I just need to re-learn my beginner's R/U H and U perm algs, then 2-look some big cube PLLs, maybe. What approaches do others here take to big-cube LL?

I can see times falling fairly quickly at first, before improvements start to come with a little more difficulty, but I think 3:00 is reasonably feasible.


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## mark49152 (Dec 24, 2016)

pipkiksass said:


> What approaches do others here take to big-cube LL?


I use quite a bit of 2-look OLL or PLL as I haven't got motivated to learn alternative algs. I have tried to adopt my 3x3 algs wherever they are workable though. For example, I used to 2-look G perms on 5x5 but after some practice I can now do all my RUD 3x3 G perms.


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## kbrune (Dec 24, 2016)

@pipkiksass 
I haven't learned any big cube specific 3x3 algs. I'm sure it would help if I did. But I don't have patience or enough time to learn event specific algs unless of course my focus is on that event ie: bld events these days. 

So when it comes to 3x3 stage I use exactly what I use for 3x3 no matter if it's OH or big cubes. Recognition of OLLs and PLLs were slow at first for 4x4 and up. But I got used to it. I use 1 look OLL and PLL everywhere. I like it that way because I still get 3x3 practice during other events. 

Edge pairing was always a nightmare for me on 5x5. I was at 3:15-3:30 average for a long time. Only in the last 6 months did my times drop under 3 min. 5x5 has become one of my favorite events. 

I get frustrated with 4x4. For some reason I haven't spent any time to figure out. It's the event I see the least improvement on. I find pieces easier to find on 5x5 then on 4x4. Weird I know.


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## Shaky Hands (Dec 24, 2016)

I just use regular 3x3 OLL and PLL algs on big cubes. I struggled at first, but now can do anything I can do on 3x3 on anything up to 7x7.

Personally I'm averaging about 1:40 on 4x4 and about 2:45 on 5x5, so my 5x5 times are less than double 4x4. I wonder if maybe I just suck at Hoya (which I use on 4x4 but not on 5x5) but then again, my 4x4 times were worse before I started using Hoya. Realistically it's probably just that I practice 5x5 more.


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## mafergut (Dec 24, 2016)

In my case it's the other way around, my 4x4 times are comparably faster with PB Ao100 below 1:23 and just marginally below 3:00 at 5x5 but it also varies with what event I'm practicing at the moment. I think I have more room for improvement now on 5x5 than on 4x4.

Sent from my Nexus 4 with Tapatalk


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## muchacho (Dec 24, 2016)

3x3OH PB, 22.103 (CMLL skip, 39 STM, 1.76 TPS)

2726 24-dic-2016 10:11:15 00:22.103 U' L2 D' R2 D R2 D' B2 D R2 U F U' F2 L B F2 R2 B2 F' L'
z2 y
F U M U' Lw' U L' U2 L2 U2
z2 Lw' U M2 U2 L U' L' U' M U2 Lw' U Lw
U M U M U M' U M U2 M2 U M' U2 M' U2 M2

LSE could have been so much efficient, 9 moves instead of 16


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## pipkiksass (Dec 24, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> I use quite a bit of 2-look OLL or PLL as I haven't got motivated to learn alternative algs. I have tried to adopt my 3x3 algs wherever they are workable though. For example, I used to 2-look G perms on 5x5 but after some practice I can now do all my RUD 3x3 G perms.


I can see me ending up using 2-look PLL, although I don't seem to struggle so much with OLL. Maybe it's something to do with the length of the alg, or finger-tricks. Most of my OLLs I know visually, while PLLs I rely more on muscle memory, which deserts me on 5x5. Sadly 2-look PLL requires EPLL, and ALL of my EPLL algs use M slices, which I just can't do on 5x5. I might learn RUD Z, H, and U algs, because tbh I struggle with these on 4x4 anyway, and I'm sure RUD would knock c.3 seconds off some of my 4x4 solves.



kbrune said:


> @pipkiksass
> I haven't learned any big cube specific 3x3 algs. I'm sure it would help if I did. But I don't have patience or enough time to learn event specific algs unless of course my focus is on that event ie: bld events these days.


ikr!!!!


kbrune said:


> I get frustrated with 4x4. For some reason I haven't spent any time to figure out. It's the event I see the least improvement on. I find pieces easier to find on 5x5 then on 4x4. Weird I know.


For some reason, I've really hit the ground running with 4x4. I think it's because I found it so much of a challenge, after years of 3x3 where there's less thought required. Do you use Yau on 4x4? It's ridiculously easy to find edges in Yau, especially with 3-2-3.


Shaky Hands said:


> Personally I'm averaging about 1:40 on 4x4 and about 2:45 on 5x5, so my 5x5 times are less than double 4x4. I wonder if maybe I just suck at Hoya (which I use on 4x4 but not on 5x5) but then again, my 4x4 times were worse before I started using Hoya. Realistically it's probably just that I practice 5x5 more.


I think, tbh, this is the case across the board. With an equal amount of time spent on each event, I'm sure @Logiqx ratios would be spot on. I wonder how much Feliks practices each event, would be really interesting to find out! Have you tried Yau? I believe it has a slightly lower movecount than Hoya, i.e. is slightly more efficient. I like it, and find it interesting when solving. But, as above, it's probably all down to how much you practice each event.

Pretty sure 3:00 on 5x5 is doable, did a single solve earlier, which was 3:48.54. PLL skip, but even without, would have been my first sub-4. Previous solve (last night) was 4:08.313. This is down from 10 minutes 2 days ago, so if progress is linear rather than exponential, I'll break the world record before the end of the year.


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## kbrune (Dec 24, 2016)

@pipkiksass 

I tried to switch to yau twice. I really liked how the first 3 edges works. But I couldn't get the hang of it. I spent more time on centers then searching for edges on my current method. I was averaging 1:45-1:55 with yau. Granted I didn't spend that much time on yau. I got frustrated pretty quickly. I felt like it would take along time to become comfortable with yau so I gave up assuming it wouldn't lower my average by much.


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## newtonbase (Dec 24, 2016)

I recall breaking my AO5 and AO12 last Christmas day. Can't see it happening tomorrow but who knows. 

Wishing everyone all the best. Hope you get all the peace, goodwill and cubes you've wished for tomorrow. Night.


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## Jason Green (Dec 25, 2016)

muchacho said:


> A cube price comparison site (in an old web design style) I'm working on:
> http://cubealot.com/Qiyi-Thunderclap
> 
> Thoughts? Do the world need this?
> ...


I think this is cool, it would be cool if the shipping rates could be out to the side also. Volume discounts and such would get trickier. I know cubicle has lots of 5% off codes and I always forget to use them. 

You guys are very structured with your goals, I have never worked well like that. I've been practicing 4x4 more lately and it seems slow to improve. I think my mindset has been wrong though. When I started 3x3 I would put many hours in and be fine with the improvements however they came. With 4x4 I'm frustrated that I'm not already as fast as I "should" or could be. I've been working on changing that and just enjoying my practice time so I think it helps, it's more fun which will lead to more practice!

There's a small chance I'll go to nationals in 2017 if I can find a friend to stay with a few hours away or less. Or maybe I'll find someone to room with. Anyone from here going?


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## muchacho (Dec 25, 2016)

It would be as cool as impossible I'm afraid. I guess it will be more useful to people that from past orders can already guess how much shipping will be for them on every store.


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## MarcelP (Dec 25, 2016)

Hi guys,

I have not checkedin in a long time. I have not practiced a lot since last competition. I wanted to say merry x-mas to you all. My goals for 2017 is actually starting to work on 3BLD.


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## newtonbase (Dec 25, 2016)

I've been given _Cracking the Cube _and a hoodie. It's not orange but it does make me feel more of a cuber.


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## Logiqx (Dec 25, 2016)

I've got cracking the cube as well. I've also got a QiYi 6x6 and QiYi Sq1. 6x6 needs breaking in but feels like it has potential. I haven't a clue what I'm doing on the Sq1. It'll take me a long time to figure out by myself... maybe by the end of 2017. 

Goals... hmm.

Get competent at the other small puzzles... Skewb (sub-12 global) & clock (sub-15 global) during Q1 / Q2. Start doing mega during Q3. Start doing Sq1 during Q4.

Maybe I'll decide to improve at Pyra (sub-8 global) and 2x2 (sub-5 global) as well.

Regular events... sub-16 global 3x3 & sub-27 global for OH. I need to solidify what I know and 
Continue making the progress I was seeing earlier this year.

No specific goals for 5x5 upwards. I should practice them more often though!

I also need to finish documenting all of my algs.

It's going to be a busy year if I'm going to achieve that lot!


Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk


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## newtonbase (Dec 25, 2016)

Logiqx said:


> I've got cracking the cube as well. I've also got a QiYi 6x6 and QiYi Sq1. 6x6 needs breaking in but feels like it has potential. I haven't a clue what I'm doing on the Sq1. It'll take me a long time to figure out by myself... maybe by the end of 2017.
> 
> Goals... hmm.
> 
> ...


I see no mention of blind?


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## Logiqx (Dec 25, 2016)

newtonbase said:


> I see no mention of blind?


I don't think it'll happen in 2017.

Maybe towards the end of the year.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk


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## h2f (Dec 27, 2016)

There's offer CB4x4 - you guys here wrote a lot good words about it. Are there any specific models or it's just Cyclone Boys?


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## One Wheel (Dec 27, 2016)

h2f said:


> There's offer CB4x4 - you guys here wrote a lot good words about it. Are there any specific models or it's just Cyclone Boys?



I have the G4. It was great until I lost an inner piece yesterday.


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## h2f (Dec 27, 2016)

Thanks.

Wysłane z mojego SM-J500FN przy użyciu Tapatalka


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## Jason Green (Dec 27, 2016)

h2f said:


> There's offer CB4x4 - you guys here wrote a lot good words about it. Are there any specific models or it's just Cyclone Boys?


Definitely G4, I had the original also and it wasn't as good.


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## pglewis (Dec 27, 2016)

I haven't had as much practice time this past week with the Holiday chaos. I did add a new drill I think I'm going to keep timing up until comp: cross + 1 pair. This forces me to pay more attention to lookahead between the steps versus just straight cross drills. I'm slow there at best, probably 6-8 seconds but I'm also _really_ slow there, over 15 seconds in some cases. Obviously adds a layer of difficulty to getting sub-30 times if half that is already burned by cross+1. Also may push me to start looking for x-cross.


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## One Wheel (Dec 27, 2016)

Has anybody had the 57mm CB 4x4? I saw it on cubezz I think it was yesterday, and I must admit I'm curious.


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## h2f (Dec 27, 2016)

@One Wheel @Jason Green thanks for the help. I didnt buy it - i've thought it's a kind of scam.

I do practice 4x4 again - first for a half of a year. I got few nice results but look at this scramble: F' B Rw' L U L2 F' D2 L2 Rw' Fw2 R' Rw Fw2 Uw2 D2 L' Fw L' D' R D' Rw2 B' L' Uw' L2 F' D2 R2 Fw' L Rw2 R B2 U D L2 U2 R

I got 52.10 on it.


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## pglewis (Dec 28, 2016)

Time distribution from 50 cross+1 solves, as my baseline. Tells a story and there's pay dirt to be had in there.


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## Shaky Hands (Dec 28, 2016)

pipkiksass said:


> Have you tried Yau? I believe it has a slightly lower movecount than Hoya, i.e. is slightly more efficient. I like it, and find it interesting when solving. But, as above, it's probably all down to how much you practice each event.



Yes I've tried Yau in the past but what works well for others doesn't seem to work well for me here.

I was amused in a recent competition to overhear Rob Yau himself being asked if he used the Yau Method. 



pipkiksass said:


> Pretty sure 3:00 on 5x5 is doable, did a single solve earlier, which was 3:48.54. PLL skip, but even without, would have been my first sub-4.



Sub-3m is definitely doable. My records show that my first sub-3m single came on my 555th timed solve and my first sub-3m Ao5 came from solves #1002-1006, but you're so much of a better cuber overall than I am that I'm sure you'll be there in a fraction of the time it took me. 



newtonbase said:


> I recall breaking my AO5 and AO12 last Christmas day. Can't see it happening tomorrow but who knows.



I had to settle for my 2nd-best 7x7 solve on Christmas morning.



newtonbase said:


> I've been given _Cracking the Cube _and a hoodie. It's not orange but it does make me feel more of a cuber.





Logiqx said:


> I've got cracking the cube as well.



Awesome. I was also a good boy this year and Santa brought me a copy of Cracking the Cube too. Looking forward to getting stuck into it, although several other reading-related presents will be competing for my attention.



Logiqx said:


> I've also got a QiYi 6x6 and QiYi Sq1. 6x6 needs breaking in but feels like it has potential. I haven't a clue what I'm doing on the Sq1. It'll take me a long time to figure out by myself... maybe by the end of 2017.
> 
> Goals... hmm.
> 
> Get competent at the other small puzzles... Skewb (sub-12 global) & clock (sub-15 global) during Q1 / Q2. Start doing mega during Q3. Start doing Sq1 during Q4.



Other than the first solve, Square-1 didn't take me too long to figure out. This said, I haven't been practicing it recently and the algs I did know are likely fading from memory. I was never fast at it anyway. From memory, my PB single was 1m 57s or something similarly useless. I do like the puzzle though and will return to it later in the year. No SQ1 at the Birmingham Open (not that I can definitely make it there for it) so no immediate focus needed on this by me.

Is your sub-15 target for Clock at home or in-comp? Hope you enjoy Clock; I think it's an under-appreciated puzzle. Good to have 3 delegates in the UK who are all fond of it.


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## 1973486 (Dec 28, 2016)

Shaky Hands said:


> No SQ1 at the Birmingham Open (not that I can definitely make it there for it) so no immediate focus needed on this by me.



*Manchester, I think

Also I will try to convince Nevins otherwise


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## Shaky Hands (Dec 28, 2016)

1973486 said:


> *Manchester, I think
> 
> Also I will try to convince Nevins otherwise



Ah yeah, you're right Mr. Wink-Wink Nudge-Nudge I Won't Say Here. Brain has been rotted by too much meat and beer over the festive season.


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## mark49152 (Dec 28, 2016)

@pipkiksass , @Shaky Hands : Yau is a little more move efficient than Hoya but that has to be weighed up against pauses and lookahead. With Yau you need to find two cross edges at a time to form each dedge; with Hoya you just solve one at a time as you find them, and you can generally solve the first 3-4 very efficiently cross-style. I find it way easier to keep moving in Hoya, and switching to Hoya was a breakthrough for me on both 4x4 and 5x5.

@bubbagrub : No mention of BLD anywhere in your goals...!


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## newtonbase (Dec 28, 2016)

1973486 said:


> Also I will try to convince Nevins otherwise



Given recent results I think a round of Square-1 could be justified. 



Shaky Hands said:


> Brain has been rotted by too much meat and beer over the festive season.


Too much? Huh?


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## pipkiksass (Dec 28, 2016)

@Shaky Hands, I had my 7x7 PB on Boxing Day. Also first and only ever 7x7 solve. My brother has an old pillowed VCube 7, which turns like blocks of concrete held together with rusty cast iron springs. Took me about 90 minutes, most of which was figuring out last 2 centres and last 2 edges, but otherwise most of the hassle was just turning the thing!!

Went back to my QiYi 5x5 afterwards and, cool optical illusion, it looked concave for the first 5 minutes!

I'm barely doing 3x3 any more, but my New Years resolution is to bloody learn full OLL already!! And get sub 3 on 5x5, can see why people enjoy it so much, it's a nice balance of challenge and speed solve.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Logiqx (Dec 28, 2016)

Shaky Hands said:


> Yes I've tried Yau in the past but what works well for others doesn't seem to work well for me here.
> 
> I was amused in a recent competition to overhear Rob Yau himself being asked if he used the Yau Method.
> 
> ...


When I say figuring out Sq1, I mean without following a tutorial. The only puzzle I haven't figured out for myself is the 3x3. I suspect Sq1 is probably going to be the hardest to figure out by myself. I doubt I'll pick it up again to try properly until after the summer.



Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk


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## JanW (Dec 28, 2016)

My timer was resting over the holidays. Instead I worked on getting more comfortable with the new OLLs I've learned. Currently at 32/57. I'm also trying to learn to recognize all PLLs without ever looking at the back of the cube. I suppose that would be 3-sided PLL recognition. Aiming to eventually be able to recognize them all from any 2 sides, but I think that's still quite a long way off.

Learning OLL sure pays off. Today I again improved all averages Ao5-Ao100. So close now to sub-20 Ao5 (20.04) and sub-24 Ao100 (24.09). Biggest improvement was to Ao12, where I shaved off 0.8 seconds with my new 21.41 pb.

Plan for 2017: Learn full OLL, sub-20 Ao1000, get back into 3bld and mbld, maybe learn 4bld. We'll see about other events if I get inspired to practice them more.


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## Logiqx (Dec 28, 2016)

@Shaky Hands - most of my goals are for a typical Ao100 at home since I can rarely attend official competitions. I like to back up my home performances with official results but I think it adds extra pressure when I know the next chance is 6-9 months time!

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk


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## Shaky Hands (Dec 28, 2016)

Logiqx said:


> When I say figuring out Sq1, I mean without following a tutorial. The only puzzle I haven't figured out for myself is the 3x3. I suspect Sq1 is probably going to be the hardest to figure out by myself. I doubt I'll pick it up again to try properly until after the summer.



Ah I see. Yes, quite a challenge I'm sure. Good luck.


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## h2f (Dec 28, 2016)

What speedcube's shop do you recommend in UK? My sister lives in Manchester and she wants a cube...


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## Logiqx (Dec 28, 2016)

h2f said:


> What speedcube's shop do you recommend in UK? My sister lives in Manchester and she wants a cube...


http://thepuzzlestore.uk/

Availability is clear online.

Quick dispatch. Email updates.

Only had good experiences... 4 or 5 orders iirc.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk


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## newtonbase (Dec 28, 2016)

Logiqx said:


> http://thepuzzlestore.uk/
> 
> Availability is clear online.
> 
> ...


Agreed.


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## mark49152 (Dec 28, 2016)

h2f said:


> What speedcube's shop do you recommend in UK? My sister lives in Manchester and she wants a cube...


Tell her to come say hello at Manchester Open on 14 Jan!


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## Shaky Hands (Dec 28, 2016)

@h2f, like Mike and Mark have said, thepuzzlestore.uk have been very reliable for me too and I'd have no hesitation recommending them. Will be putting in another order from there for a relative in the New Year.


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## h2f (Dec 28, 2016)

@Shaky Hands @mark49152 @newtonbase @Logiqx Thanks a lot. I will tell her about competition but she wants to learn how to solve the cube now. We were talking about how it would be nice to visit her and go to a competition.


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## bubbagrub (Dec 28, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> @bubbagrub : No mention of BLD anywhere in your goals...!



Ahh... Yes. Good point. That wasn't an intentional omission, but maybe a significant one. My main BLD goals are:

Get an average in 3BLD (but I'm happy to have this as a goal for the end of 2017, rather than Paris)
6/6 in MBLD (similarly -- goal for end of 2017)


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## bubbagrub (Dec 28, 2016)

Logiqx said:


> When I say figuring out Sq1, I mean without following a tutorial. The only puzzle I haven't figured out for myself is the 3x3. I suspect Sq1 is probably going to be the hardest to figure out by myself. I doubt I'll pick it up again to try properly until after the summer.



Good luck! I'll be interested to hear how you get on. It clearly must be possible to figure out from first principles. I'll look forward to seeing you solve it with your own method, one-handed, while wind-surfing...


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## JanW (Dec 28, 2016)

Santa is late this year. Today I got the first of two orders I placed a couple of weeks ago. The Valk3 didn't arrive yet, but this shipment included a stickerless MoJue M3. I can't say anything but instant main! This is the smoothest cube I've ever touched. Very different feel from my other cubes, but I like it! It was a little lose at first, tightened it a bit and then it was ready to go.

Turns out all I needed was a new cube to get that sub-24 Ao100. Improved .6 seconds from earlier today, now 23.42. Also small improvement to Ao50, but not Ao5 or Ao12. Overall it was a very even Ao100. Now also far more sub-20s than sup-30s (11-3).

I'll probably get the Valk next week. Based on all reviews it should be way better than this cube. I'm very much looking forward to it!


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## bubbagrub (Dec 28, 2016)

Have you all seen the end of year report from Cubing China? It's pretty nice:

https://cubingchina.com/summary/2016/2008CLEM01

(Just replace the WCA ID with your own, to see your report).


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## Shaky Hands (Dec 29, 2016)

bubbagrub said:


> Have you all seen the end of year report from Cubing China? It's pretty nice:
> 
> https://cubingchina.com/summary/2016/2008CLEM01
> 
> (Just replace the WCA ID with your own, to see your report).



This is excellent. Stuff like this plus the inclusion of notes on National and Continental Championships and the better mapping system they have are all things where CubingChina's website is way ahead of WCA's for profile information.


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## newtonbase (Dec 29, 2016)

I like the stats on number of cubers met. 307 is much higher than I would have guessed.


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## JanW (Dec 29, 2016)

My fastest full-step single so far:

Generated By csTimer on 2016-12-29
single: 16.38

Time List:
1. 16.38 D2 R' F2 D2 U2 L' U2 L2 R' U2 L2 B L' D2 L2 D L' U' F U2 L

z2 y' ; Inspection
B' R' D' L D2 y L ; cross
U L' U L U' y' L' U L ; F2L 1
d' L' U L ; F2L 2
d' L' U L ; F2L 3
U R U' R' U2 y' R' U' R ; F2L 4
U2 L' U' L U' L' U L U L F' L' F ; oll
R' U L' U2 R U' R' U2 R L ; pll

57 moves, 3.48 tps

A funny solve with 3 consecutive identical F2L insertions. I wish F2L pairs would always line up that nicely! Otherwise it was a not very efficient cross and one of the more awkward OLL algs for me to perform, so I was quite surprised when I saw the time.


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## APdRF (Dec 29, 2016)

JanW said:


> My fastest full-step single so far:
> 
> Generated By csTimer on 2016-12-29
> single: 16.38
> ...



Congratulations! You can do the OLL from the angle that appeared in your solve with RUB, I think it's more much handy: R' U' R U' R' U R U R B' R' B

I perform the last for moves as: l U' R' U x


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## JanW (Dec 29, 2016)

APdRF said:


> Congratulations! You can do the OLL from the angle that appeared in your solve with RUB, I think it's more much handy: R' U' R U' R' U R U R B' R' B
> 
> I perform the last for moves as: l U' R' U x


That's a really nice alg! I might switch.

I never actually looked up any algs for this case. I used the right handed mirror as one of my CPEOLL algs back in the days and when I started learning OLL I figured out which case it applies to and also started using it for the mirror case on the left.


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## pipkiksass (Dec 29, 2016)

Had a nice 3x3 session today, after not picking one up in a few days. Couple of 13s, back-to-back 14s, a 16.xx Ao5 and my Ao12 was sub 18 for about 20 solves. Average was unfortunately interspersed with horrendous 24/25s, so Ao100 was ugh.

Also 3:46 5x5 single, with 3:52 Mo3.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## h2f (Dec 29, 2016)




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## newtonbase (Dec 29, 2016)

bubbagrub said:


> Get an average in 3BLD


One of my main goals is a top 20 ranking in 3BLD single but it looks easier to get top 20 average. I'd need to beat 4:27 average rather than 1:46 single. Given the generous cut off at Manchester I can afford to go safe if a quick single time doesn't look on.


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## mark49152 (Dec 30, 2016)

@h2f, nice solve, and great reaction. What practice have you been doing?


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## pglewis (Dec 30, 2016)

Mediocre 3x3 timing sessions lately and tonight's session started with some disastrous solves but I eventually settled down, got into a groove and broke my mo3, ao5 and ao12. Sub-30 mo3 at last, best ao5 edging closer to 30, and hit a 24.x single with a rare OLL skip (on the heels of a 2-look LL 26.x). 



Spoiler: Times



Generated By csTimer on 2016-12-29
solves/total: 24/24

single
best: 24.63
worst: 1:11.38

mean of 3
current: 28.65 (σ = 5.61)
best: 28.65 (σ = 5.61)

avg of 5
current: 31.40 (σ = 4.59)
best: 31.40 (σ = 4.59)

avg of 12
current: 34.81 (σ = 4.52)
best: 34.81 (σ = 4.52)

Average: 37.86 (σ = 5.74)
Mean: 39.09

Time List:
1. 41.62 D' B2 R2 D2 L2 D' L2 U R2 B2 D2 L B R' U2 F2 D B' F2 R' U 
2. 38.91 F D R D2 B' L2 U' B2 R L' U B2 U B2 D F2 U2 B2 D' R2 U 
3. 58.74 D2 B2 U' B2 U' L2 B2 D2 U' L2 U' B D2 L2 R F' L R2 F' U R' 
4. 36.12 B R2 U R2 F2 D R2 U' F2 U' B' L' D2 F2 U2 B' U2 R2 U 
5. 40.43 U' R' D2 B2 L' D2 R' F2 D2 L D' R' B2 D' L' F2 U' B U 
6. 56.88 D' F2 R F2 R2 L2 U2 B' R' U B2 D L2 U' D' R2 L2 D' L' 
7. 39.08 U2 F2 R2 B2 F2 R2 U F2 D F2 D2 R U2 B D B2 U' R F R B' 
8. 1:11.38 U L2 D R2 D' R2 F2 R2 U' L' U' L2 U B F' R U' B2 D' U2 
9. 32.19 L D' L2 D' B U' L' U' F' R' U' R2 B2 U2 D L2 U2 B2 D' F2 D 
10. 34.78 F2 D R2 F2 R2 U2 R2 D2 F2 R2 B' R' D2 F2 D U L D2 R' D2 
11. 35.69 L' F2 U2 L R B2 L' F2 D2 R2 D U F' R D2 L2 D U F' U2 
12. 35.13 U R2 D' B2 R' U2 R F' L' U R F2 R2 F2 L' F2 R' 
13. 34.78 R2 U R2 D' B2 U' R2 D2 L' D' B' F' L' B' F2 D F L' 
14. 28.34 B2 D2 B2 D R2 U' F2 L2 R2 B' D U' R F' U2 L B2 D' L2 F 
15. 44.39 U' L2 F2 U2 L2 D' B2 U' F2 D2 R' D' R D2 B' L' F U2 L' U 
16. 38.96 B2 U2 L2 R2 B U2 F' R2 F D' R' D' R U2 F2 U2 L2 F R 
17. 37.60 L2 R2 D' U2 F2 R2 U R2 F2 R2 U R D2 B' U F' L2 B L2 R' 
18. 38.40 B D' F2 U F2 D2 B2 F2 R2 U R2 F' U2 R2 U' B' D L' F' R' 
19. 39.87 L' D2 F2 R2 B' U2 F U2 R2 F U2 F L' U' R' U' B L2 F' U' 
20. 32.89 D L2 B' R2 U' R B D2 R U' B2 D' F2 R2 U2 L2 D B2 U' F2 
21. 35.95 L' U2 B2 F2 L' D2 B2 D2 L' U2 R2 U' L2 B R2 U' B2 D' R F L 
22. 35.05 D' L U' R' B2 R F' R2 D2 B' R2 U F2 D' F2 R2 B2 R2 D 
23. 26.25 B2 U2 B2 D2 R2 U' L2 B2 U2 B R' U R B D L' D' F D2 
24. 24.63[OLL skip] L2 U2 F' L2 B U2 L2 F L D L2 B' F2 L' R' B2 D' B2


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## JohnnyReggae (Dec 30, 2016)

With the continued practice in 4x4 the PB's have all fallen again, except for single .... I've come close a few times though  . It helps having a good cube that doesn't pop, which now makes me want to the the new QiYi even more.

mo3 = 01:17.01
ao5 = 01:19.39
ao12 = 01:23.97
ao100 = 01:27.61


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## h2f (Dec 30, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> @h2f, nice solve, and great reaction. What practice have you been doing?



Mostly just solving. It means I was solving even if I was tired and it inclueded some stuff: pushing memo times, practicing comms in 3bld (thanks to @JanW trainer), finding new words/images, doing a lot of 4bld too. I want to get better in 5bld and get sub-15 times. The problem was that by whole year there wasnt any competiotion with 4bld and 5bld in Poland till Champs and the competiotion next week after Champs. But it looks like something changed and big blindes are included to the schedule in 5 competiotion in the Silesia. I've also heard that Maskow's success in big blindes and mbld made organizers in Warsaw (only 180 km from my home town) to add these events to comps they are doing. It makes stronger motivation to practice it.



JohnnyReggae said:


> ith the continued practice in 4x4 the PB's have all fallen again, except for single .... I've come close a few times though  . It helps having a good cube that doesn't pop, which now makes me want to the the new QiYi even more.



I'm doing 4x4 too. And got some good results. Practice pays off.


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## JanW (Dec 30, 2016)

That's a great solve and great video @h2f! I'm sure you'll make it to sub-15 if you keep it up!

As I learn more and more OLL, I'm now at a stage where I seem to be breaking some pb almost daily, so I won't bore you with reports on all of them. However, this one I still find worth mentioning: First sub-20 Ao5!

Generated By csTimer on 2016-12-30
avg of 5: 19.08

Time List:
1. 19.14 B' R2 D' B2 L2 U' B2 R2 U' B2 D' B2 L F' D U' L2 B' F2 L' F2
2. 17.64 B' L' F U F U2 D L2 B' D R F2 B2 R U2 R2 L B2 L' U2 R
3. (29.40) U' R2 B' L2 R2 F' R2 F' L2 D2 L2 B L' F2 R' D' U F' R' D2 F
4. 20.46 U' L2 B2 D' F2 U2 B2 R2 U2 F2 R' D2 F' D B2 L' D U' B' F'
5. (17.53) R2 F U2 L2 B U2 F' D2 B D' L F R2 B' L' F D2 U2

I'm seeing more and more 16-17s full-step solves. The sub-20 Ao12 and eventually Sub-20 Ao100 doesn't feel that distant anymore. I need to get more consistent though. Ao100 today was over 24s, way too many bad solves.


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## mark49152 (Dec 30, 2016)

h2f said:


> I want to get better in 5bld and get sub-15 times.


That's my target too, along with sub-6 4BLD. I am trying to mix up my practice and keep pushing myself. It gets easier as I get faster and more competent with memo, for example I can do maybe 5-10 4BLD attempts in a session now whereas until 2-3 months ago it was mentally exhausting and I could do only 2-3 attempts without a break.


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## JanW (Dec 30, 2016)

What would be a good beginner's tutorial for 4BLD? When I first started 3BLD I went straight for comms, I'd like to do the same with 4BLD as well, in case there are different methods for centers and edges.


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## mark49152 (Dec 30, 2016)

JanW said:


> What would be a good beginner's tutorial for 4BLD? When I first started 3BLD I went straight for comms, I'd like to do the same with 4BLD as well, in case there are different methods for centers and edges.


I learned from Noah's and use advanced U2/r2 for centres and wings, with comms for corners. r2 is very similar to M2, and U2 is similar in concept. They are pretty efficient already so I'm in no hurry to switch to comms, although people say centre comms are easy. Of course that only makes them fast if you can execute them as brainlessly as U2 with zero pauses. I use a handful of comms for the cases that are inefficient with U2.

What are your 3BLD times like now? Are you using full edge comms too?


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## h2f (Dec 30, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> That's my target too, along with sub-6 4BLD. I am trying to mix up my practice and keep pushing myself. It gets easier as I get faster and more competent with memo, for example I can do maybe 5-10 4BLD attempts in a session now whereas until 2-3 months ago it was mentally exhausting and I could do only 2-3 attempts without a break.



That's my plan too. But now I'm in the place where you were 2-3 months ago. 

@JanW If you want comms for centers you can learn from Ollie Frost's tutorial. I did it that way.


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## Selkie (Dec 30, 2016)

Sorry been absent from the forums over Christmas but will catch up at some stage.

Well as of yesterday I now know the full right hand set of Winter Variation, just need to do loads of slow solves to incorporate them whilst learning the left mirrors. Have not touched a timer with 3x3 since Birmingham and hopefully that timer embargo will last until end of February. Next up is to relearn the majority of the COLL I have forgotten.

I wish my fellow cubing brethren a belated Merry Christmas and hope you all have a happy, healthy, prosperous and cubing filled 2017.


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## JanW (Dec 30, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> What are your 3BLD times like now? Are you using full edge comms too?


I haven't done any bld in a while. PB is still over 2 minutes. I need to practice 3BLD for sure before learning 4BLD, but I think it could be interesting to learn the basics so that I could already practice sighted solves on the 4x4 with bld techniques and get a feel for how they work.

For edges I use mostly my own 3-cycle system with some M-slice comms and U-perms.


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## pglewis (Dec 30, 2016)

Brilliant 5bld, @h2f! 

What would you blind experts recommend for 3bld for someone who isn't impatient? Obviously my sighted solves still have a ways to go; I'm not sure where I'll hit my first _real_ plateau but I figure 4-6 more months at my current pace and I'll likely find out. I'm in no hurry to even make a 3bld attempt, much less a success, so I think it'd be a good idea to start learning the mechanics of a system with high potential soon.


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## newtonbase (Dec 30, 2016)

pglewis said:


> Brilliant 5bld, @h2f!
> 
> What would you blind experts recommend for 3bld for someone who isn't impatient? Obviously my sighted solves still have a ways to go; I'm not sure where I'll hit my first _real_ plateau but I figure 4-6 more months at my current pace and I'll likely find out. I'm in no hurry to even make a 3bld attempt, much less a success, so I think it'd be a good idea to start learning the mechanics of a system with high potential soon.


Check out Noah's tutorial. He teaches OP corners and M2 edges. I found it a little but too much to take in initially and did full OP but ended up switching to M2 after a while anyway. As you aren't in a hurry then OP/M2 would be your best bet.


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## mark49152 (Dec 30, 2016)

JanW said:


> I need to practice 3BLD for sure before learning 4BLD, but I think it could be interesting to learn the basics so that I could already practice sighted solves on the 4x4 with bld techniques and get a feel for how they work.


Go for it, you're ready. I'm not sure how well 3x3 edge comms translate to 4x4 since I don't know edge comms. Wings work a bit differently to 3x3 edges as the pieces can't be flipped. Some M2 stuff doesn't work or screws up the centres. Centre comms you could probably work out for yourself easily enough.



pglewis said:


> What would you blind experts recommend for 3bld for someone who isn't impatient?


I agree with Mark A, go for M2/OP. Learn OP corners first as it's a good introduction to the concepts. Learn it sighted before you go blind, there's no point frustrating yourself wondering where you're going wrong if you're making mistakes you would also make sighted. Once you can do corners, learn M2 edges. The concept is the same as OP corners but there are a couple of added complications.


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## h2f (Dec 30, 2016)

@JanW I dont know what kind of edge comms you use so it's hard to say wheter they affect centers in 4bld or not. Some of edge comms from 3bld dont work on 4bld, for example [M', U2], but most of them work well. You must just check it.


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## JanW (Dec 30, 2016)

h2f said:


> @JanW I dont know what kind of edge comms you use so it's hard to say wheter they affect centers in 4bld or not. Some of edge comms from 3bld dont work on 4bld, for example [M', U2], but most of them work well. You must just check it.


Ah, I see. My edge cycles don't work at all on 4x4, will have to look into something else. I'll have a look at different options to see which would fit me best. I don't know anything about 4BLD yet, so probably best not to decide on what technique to learn until I do know something.


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## newtonbase (Dec 30, 2016)

I've been looking at 4BLD for a while and outside of the size of the memo it's the centres that I find hardest. Even during sighted solves I make lots of mistakes on the trickier cases (U and D faces mainly). Corners are the same as 3BLD other than parity and there are only a couple of things to look out for when moving up from M2 to R2. I've a lot of work to do.


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## h2f (Dec 31, 2016)

JanW said:


> Ah, I see. My edge cycles don't work at all on 4x4, will have to look into something else. I'll have a look at different options to see which would fit me best. I don't know anything about 4BLD yet, so probably best not to decide on what technique to learn until I do know something.



If I remember it well, you used edge comms based on setups and R/U moves. I use edge comms based on slices. In 4bld you must add wide moves and they can work - the simplest 4bld method is based on Tperm (like in OP) with wide moves. If your method is closer to Turbo in 3bld Tom Nelson posted tutorial with Turbo like algs he used in 4bld. They are close to comms and are efficient.



newtonbase said:


> I've been looking at 4BLD for a while and outside of the size of the memo it's the centres that I find hardest. Even during sighted solves I make lots of mistakes on the trickier cases (U and D faces mainly). Corners are the same as 3BLD other than parity and there are only a couple of things to look out for when moving up from M2 to R2. I've a lot of work to do.



It's only a matter of practice with centers.  I know you know. And there are always 7 or more center pieces solved so you need only memorize 16 or less of them. Writing it I must add that still centers are the biggest problem for me. I didnt practice it much.


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## JanW (Dec 31, 2016)

h2f said:


> If I remember it well, you used edge comms based on setups and R/U moves. I use edge comms based on slices. In 4bld you must add wide moves and they can work - the simplest 4bld method is based on Tperm (like in OP) with wide moves. If your method is closer to Turbo in 3bld Tom Nelson posted tutorial with Turbo like algs he used in 4bld. They are close to comms and are efficient.


Yes, I use RU or LU comms for edges. I already tried substituting wide moves, but couldn't find anything that would get even close to solving single edge pieces on a 4x4. I'll have a look at those different options you mention.

I did manage to work out comms for centers and did a couple of sighted solves with them. It's obviously very slow right now, but otherwise they seem manageable.


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## JanW (Dec 31, 2016)

Btw. I must take back some of the praise I gave for the MoJue M3. It was great out of the box, but only about 300 solves later it became sluggish with horrible spring noises. I lubed the core to get rid of them, which made it a bit better, but not nearly as good as it was at first. I've never had a cube decline that fast. Now I'm waiting even more impatiently for the Valk!


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## mafergut (Dec 31, 2016)

I'm completely off the cubing world this Xmas but I want to wish you all a very happy New Year!!!!!

Sent from my Nexus 4 with Tapatalk


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## newtonbase (Jan 1, 2017)

Happy New Year everyone. May all your solves be PBs.


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## h2f (Jan 1, 2017)

Happy New Year.

@JanW - this is the tutorial I mentioned:


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## mark49152 (Jan 1, 2017)

Happy New Year everyone! 



h2f said:


> @JanW - this is the tutorial I mentioned:


I quite like the idea of two piece setups to a simple group of comms, but I wonder if there is a better choice of targets/comms that would let you setup to 8- rather than 12-movers.

The issue I have with wings (and edges on 3BLD) is that r2/M2 is so efficient to start with that to achieve any significant move count advantage requires learning a larger set of more move-optimal comms. The approach of learning a smaller set with setups doesn't pay off so much.

My current thinking is to stick with advanced M2/r2 but add comms for slower combinations of adjacent targets, to reduce wrist moves or regrips.


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## Shaky Hands (Jan 1, 2017)

Happy New Year everyone and best wishes for an amazing 2017 in cubing and everything else you do.

My neighbours probably just heard me do a ridiculously loud shot of "YES!!!!!" when I got my first PB of the year, my first ever sub-2:30 5x5 solve (2:27.09.) The solve was full-step, finishing in a V-perm and included me needing to fix some F2L when I did a back-insert into the wrong slot. The 2:30 mark has been a personal nemesis of mine for a long while now whilst I've been targeting this time as it's the UK average cut for 5x5.

The fact that this happened on my 1189th timed 5x5 solve probably shows how much time I've put into this puzzle. It's the equivalent of about 3.5 days' continuous solving and doesn't include any of the numerous untimed solves I've done.

Bizarrely this happened only 20 solves after going back to using Hoya for 5x5, which I haven't really used on 5x5 for several months now. I think the Hoya practice I've had from regularly using the method on 4x4 has translated well.

I have also broken my Ao5, Ao12, Ao25 and Ao100 for 5x5 today, so I think Hoya will probably replace Reduction as my main 5x5 method.

If the rest of my year goes as well as this solve then I'll be very happy.

Scramble: Uw2 Rw U2 Bw' Rw' L' R Uw' R2 Bw' Uw Rw' Dw F2 Fw2 R' F Rw' F' Dw' F' U R D Lw2 D F Rw D R2 L2 Lw' Bw2 R2 L B Fw D2 R2 Rw' F D Rw Lw' Uw2 Dw U D' Bw' R2 U B' Dw2 F L U' Uw' L' B Uw (first solve in the 5x5 Race thread, round 73A.)

I think I'll put the cube away for a bit and bask in geeky euphoria.


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## mark49152 (Jan 1, 2017)

Nice job @Shaky Hands - Hoya FTW


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## Selkie (Jan 1, 2017)

Happy New Year my fellow oldies. I hope you and your loved ones all have a fantastic year.

Apologies for my absence, I have been having a festive break full of family and company. Following the redundancy process, my job finished on 30th December and I have had a company I know very well approach me for a role they have available an I have an interview on Friday 13th January with a view to starting at the beginning of February. I will therefore have a much welcome January off so expect a flood of participation in the thread when my wife returns to work on 3rd.


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## pglewis (Jan 2, 2017)

I haven't really touched 2x2 since my first comp in Sept but with a week 'til comp I'm grinding away in the hopes of not blanking out on my Varasano/Ortega specific algs (that I had to relearn). It also led me to a semi-pointless but fun exercise of solving 3x3 corners-first with V/O, bottom edges, then the remaining edges with setup moves + EPLL and *Rw (R U R’ U’) Rw’ U2 (R U R U’ R2) *to swap orientation for a pair of edges. Managed to whittle it down to about 1:30 with a little practice.


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## Jason Green (Jan 2, 2017)

Happy New Year!

I got my Valk M yesterday and it's become my instant main. I did about 80 solves today off and on while watching tv and kids playing and company over, and still had about 18.7 average.  That's pretty good for me right now. I feel like solves often are one or two seconds faster than I expect, I think just because it is more forgiving. Definitely recommend buying or making one!

Oh also I will be going to Nationals this year (don't think I said for sure). Hoping I can find a close comp and qualify for 4x4 which is 1:30. I had a good session the other night where I was under 1:30 most of the time for a first. Finally some improvement there yay!


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## moralsh (Jan 2, 2017)

Happy new year everyone and happy belated birthday to @MarcelP 

Very little cubing this Xmas holidays but I'll try to find time next 2 weeks, However, I got a 10.75 PB single out of the blue here's the scramble and reconstruction if anybody is interested:



Spoiler



U2 B F' U2 F' L2 U2 B U2 D' L' U B2 L U F2 L' D2 L

Reconstruction:
x2 y U R2 y' R' F R D2 // cross
y' R U' R' U y L' U L // F2L-1
U2 R' U' R // F2L-2
R U2 R' U' R U R' // F2L-3
U2 y2 R U2 R' U' R U R' // F2L-4
(U') M2 U' M' U2 M U' M2 (U2) // PLL

and check out this F2L with the same scramble

z2 y'
U L2 y R' F R D2
L' U L y' R U2 R'
U2 L U L'
U2 L' U L
U R' U' R



Other than that, I'm starting to like Hoya for the 5x5, I'm close now to my times with reduction, let´s see where I end

I placed yesterday my first order of the year, the Guoguan 2x2, QiYi 6x, WuQue and master pyraminx

I plan to focus mostly on BLD events the first part of the year and will probably start trying 6BLD very soon, race with @h2f and @mark49152 too 

@Jason Green 1:30 in 4x4 is just about going slow and not messing up, practice F2L to be sure that part doesn't mess up your solve.


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## h2f (Jan 2, 2017)

moralsh said:


> I plan to focus mostly on BLD events the first part of the year and will probably start trying 6BLD very soon, race with @h2f and @mark49152 too



 Ok. My QiYi 6x6 is on the way I think. If I get better in 5bld I'm into 6bld.


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## muchacho (Jan 2, 2017)

Happy new year!

I posted this in the 2017 goals' thread, maybe I was slightly optimistic about OH (or drunk) at the time.



muchacho said:


> 2x2: sub-5.5 avg (now 6.5)
> 3x3: sub-18 avg (now 21)
> OH: sub-25 avg (now 35, maybe too ambitous there)
> 4x4: sub-1:40 avg (now 2:10)
> ...


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## mafergut (Jan 2, 2017)

Maybe that OH was a bit too ambitious. The rest seems achievable but... all of them??? Well, the year is long or so it seems now 

I also posted new goals for 1st half of 2017. Link in my signature. They are not very ambitious but I'm sure I will not be able to achieve all of them. I'll be happy with half of them or more:

_2x2: Keep trying to graduate from RTS 5.00 or at least maintain my current sub-5.5 level.
3x3: Globally sub-20 Full CN once and for all, so I'm not going to put any Goals for sub-18 Dual White/Yellow any more.
4x4: Graduate from RTS 1:20, Globally sub or close to 1:15. (current PB Ao100 1:22.xx)
5x5: Graduate from RTS 2:45, Globally sub or close to 2:40 (current PB Ao100 2:58.xx)
6x6: Get closer to equivalent 4x4 and 5x5 times (that would be at least sub-6:00 globally, current PB single 7:20.xx)
3BLD: Re-learn M2/OP, get maybe a sub-6min success? (current PB 7:26.xx)_


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## pipkiksass (Jan 2, 2017)

Jason Green said:


> Happy New Year!
> 
> I got my Valk M yesterday and it's become my instant main. I did about 80 solves today off and on while watching tv and kids playing and company over, and still had about 18.7 average.  That's pretty good for me right now. I feel like solves often are one or two seconds faster than I expect, I think just because it is more forgiving. Definitely recommend buying or making one!
> 
> Oh also I will be going to Nationals this year (don't think I said for sure). Hoping I can find a close comp and qualify for 4x4 which is 1:30. I had a good session the other night where I was under 1:30 most of the time for a first. Finally some improvement there yay!



Happy new year to all!

Jason - looking forward to you and the kids posting a review of the Valk M. I keep looking, but I just can't justify that much money for a cube!


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## newtonbase (Jan 2, 2017)

10 bloody attempts to get a 3BLD success. So much for a quick solve before bed. 

Anyway, following the mention of Hoya 5 this morning I thought I'd look it up. I like it but I'm not sure of the best approach to edges after the cross. What do you Hoya guys usually do? I use Hoya for 4x4 and standard redux for 5x5. Changing method less than 2 weeks before a comp is a bad thing.


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## mark49152 (Jan 2, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> Anyway, following the mention of Hoya 5 this morning I thought I'd look it up. I like it but I'm not sure of the best approach to edges after the cross. What do you Hoya guys usually do? I use Hoya for 4x4 and standard redux for 5x5. Changing method less than 2 weeks before a comp is a bad thing.


I use AvG edge pairing. Basically it means you look at a wing in a fixed position, and find the midge to match, then repeat until finished. I like that because there are half the number of midges, so less searching, and easier lookahead. I used to hate hunting down wings with redux.

Agreed about changing right before a comp. Not a good idea! I have been tempted to add some center comms to my 4BLD, but it's too late for this comp.


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## newtonbase (Jan 3, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> I use AvG edge pairing. Basically it means you look at a wing in a fixed position, and find the midge to match, then repeat until finished. I like that because there are half the number of midges, so less searching, and easier lookahead. I used to hate hunting down wings with redux.
> 
> Agreed about changing right before a comp. Not a good idea! I have been tempted to add some center comms to my 4BLD, but it's too late for this comp.


Thanks. I've looked it up now and it seems nice and simple. I think @Selkie was talking about that method at the UK's.
I do really need to spend my practice time more wisely. I'm not sure where I'll be getting a PB this time. I won't be competing in any of the 3 new events I've entered.


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## JanW (Jan 3, 2017)

Sub 2 minutes 3bld, finally!

01:54.80 
B D' F' U' F D F2 U2 F D' R2 F D R B2 D B' U' F2 L2 B2 L U' F' U

2nd successful solve after a few months break from bld. It was an easy scramble with 3 solved edges and only 3 corner cycles. Prior to the break from bld I did quite a lot of 1:4x solves off by one mistake, so this result was kind of expected.


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## newtonbase (Jan 3, 2017)

JanW said:


> Sub 2 minutes 3bld, finally!
> 
> 01:54.80
> B D' F' U' F D F2 U2 F D' R2 F D R B2 D B' U' F2 L2 B2 L U' F' U
> ...


Well done. Is that full comms? Do you know your memo/execution splits?


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## JanW (Jan 3, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> Well done. Is that full comms? Do you know your memo/execution splits?


Memo was 48 seconds.

Full corner comms and my own 3-cycle system for edges. But I never learned any algs for the corners, always worked them out on the fly. Now I find that I have settled into certain patterns using only a few different insertions for all cases. I'm sure this is far from move optimal and I could save a lot of moves by learning algs on a case to case basis. But on the other hand, when I haven't learned any algs, I cannot forget any either, and it's apparently quite easy to get back into blind after a few months break.


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## Shaky Hands (Jan 3, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> Anyway, following the mention of Hoya 5 this morning I thought I'd look it up. I like it but I'm not sure of the best approach to edges after the cross. What do you Hoya guys usually do? I use Hoya for 4x4 and standard redux for 5x5. Changing method less than 2 weeks before a comp is a bad thing.





mark49152 said:


> I use AvG edge pairing. Basically it means you look at a wing in a fixed position, and find the midge to match, then repeat until finished. I like that because there are half the number of midges, so less searching, and easier lookahead. I used to hate hunting down wings with redux.
> 
> Agreed about changing right before a comp. Not a good idea! I have been tempted to add some center comms to my 4BLD, but it's too late for this comp.



I'm just freeslicing currently, aiming at whatever I see. I think building centres is what slows me down the most on big cubes rather than building edges. I've experimented with AvG before and may go back to it. I know quite a few of the L2E cases that AvG avoids so I'm not prioritising this at the moment though.

While we're on subject, one L2E case that I struggle with in Hoya 5 is one such as setup by z2 Dw R U R' F R' F' R Dw' R U R' U' F' U F L' U' L U F U' F'. In reduction, this is easy to solve using a regular L2E alg, but in Hoya it will break the cross if done the regular way after a cube rotation. The alternative (inverse of setup above) is really inefficient. How do other Hoya 5 users approach this? Maybe fixing the cross isn't too bad here and it's just a cross-fix that isn't in my muscle memory yet? Or is there a rotationless way of solving this that preserves the cross?

Hmmm, now I think about it, is the above situation avoided when using AvG?

Oh, and on the subject of changing before competition, my biggest problem at the moment is automatically thinking I'm doing a Hoya solve when I pick up a 6x6 and wasting a bunch of inspection time by not looking to build cross/opposite-cross colour centres. I'll need to slap myself into the right mindset for this as Hoya 6 takes me about 15% longer than 6x6 reduction.


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## xyzzy (Jan 3, 2017)

Shaky Hands said:


> While we're on subject, one L2E case that I struggle with in Hoya 5 is one such as setup by z2 Dw R U R' F R' F' R Dw' R U R' U' F' U F L' U' L U F U' F'. In reduction, this is easy to solve using a regular L2E alg, but in Hoya it will break the cross if done the regular way after a cube rotation.



It's really just slice-flip-unslice, but you use Uw/Uw' instead of Dw/Dw': Uw' R U R' F R' F' R Uw

The 3-cycle L2E cases can all be done like this, and recognition is really simple. There's always a midge attached to a wing, and a midge attached to a wing in the wrong orientation. It's very rare to end with this case with AvG edge pairing, but when it happens, you would also do the slice-flip-unslice thing to solve it with AvG.

(I'm too young to be posting in this thread :v)


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## Shaky Hands (Jan 3, 2017)

xyzzy said:


> It's really just slice-flip-unslice, but you use Uw/Uw' instead of Dw/Dw': Uw' R U R' F R' F' R Uw
> 
> The 3-cycle L2E cases can all be done like this, and recognition is really simple. There's always a midge attached to a wing, and a midge attached to a wing in the wrong orientation. It's very rare to end with this case with AvG edge pairing, but when it happens, you would also do the slice-flip-unslice thing to solve it with AvG.
> 
> (I'm too young to be posting in this thread :v)



Great. This is so obvious as well now you point it out. Thanks very much.


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## mark49152 (Jan 3, 2017)

Shaky Hands said:


> Great. This is so obvious as well now you point it out. Thanks very much.


Yeah I was wondering why you found that one hard . It comes up quite often for me using AvG, since one of the tredges has a formed pair. The cases that are rare are the ones where neither has a formed pair.


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## newtonbase (Jan 3, 2017)

JanW said:


> Now I find that I have settled into certain patterns using only a few different insertions for all cases. I'm sure this is far from move optimal and I could save a lot of moves by learning algs on a case to case basis. But on the other hand, when I haven't learned any algs, I cannot forget any either, and it's apparently quite easy to get back into blind after a few months break.


It's not unusual amongst the top blinders to have a few set patterns that they keep to. It cuts right down on thinking time and makes execution comfortable.



xyzzy said:


> (I'm too young to be posting in this thread :v)


We're all young at heart. That's why we spend our free time playing with toys.


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## earth2dan (Jan 3, 2017)

I'd like to wish everyone here a very happy new year! I hope everyone had (or is still having) a great holiday season.

Congratulations on all the great PB's posted of late. And I'm a little jealous of all the new puzzles  I did get two new puzzles for Christmas. One is a triple joined 2x2 (which was quite fun to mix up and figure out), and the other is a V-Cube maze 3x3. The maze is a really difficult one, mainly because without the paper guide it came with that shows the solved state of the puzzle it's hard to tell if it's scrambled or not...

I got some really nice display cases to protect and show off some of my collection. They're actually just baseball bat displays, but they work perfectly for cubes 

I'm going to do that thing I've never done and set some goals for 2017. I didn't make as much progress as I'd hoped in 2016, so maybe having some fixed goals for the year will keep me on track for 2017.

*2017 Goals:
3x3x3: *Sub 20 full colour neutral. Learn Full OLL.
*4x4x4: *1:15 avg, sub 1:00 single.
*5x5x5: *2:15 avg, sub 2:00 single.
*6x6x6: *4:30 avg, sub 4:00 single.
*7x7x7: *9:00 avg, sub 8:00 single.
*Megaminx: *... Do more than 10 solves 
*3BLD: *One success. Really, just one and I'll be happy!

I think each of those goals are individually achievable for me, but if I can get them all I'll be a very happy cuber.


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## pipkiksass (Jan 3, 2017)

earth2dan said:


> *2017 Goals:
> 3x3x3: *Sub 20 full colour neutral. Learn Full OLL.
> *4x4x4: *1:15 avg, sub 1:00 single.
> *5x5x5: *2:15 avg, sub 2:00 single.
> ...


We share SO many goals in common... I think if I ever stop procrastinating and learn full OLL, I'll buy a hat, eat said hat, and post a video on YouTube of me eating the hat while one-looking various OLLs. 

Interestingly, we're in a similar position on 4x4, but you're a clear couple of minutes faster than me on 5x5! I've been reading, with interest, the Hoya vs. Reduction debate on this thread. I've never considered anything other than reduction, after looking into Yau5 and finding it ridiculously convoluted.

I don't have a 6x6. Yet. I'll be ordering one shortly, probably along with the QiYi 4x4. I'm kind of at the stage where I no longer feel that cubes hold me back, it's all me being crap from here on in!

So, anyway, I did a New Year's Ao100 3x3 as a benchmark, so I'll know where I stand and where my resolutions take me. Came out at 18.82, and I was disappointed with that, which I feel is a good thing. Still lots of silly mistakes, but it's at the stage where I can screw up a solve and still bring it in under 20 seconds on occasion. I recorded about half the session, but most of the video is my shoulder. I had a 12.75 (+2) where I irritatingly U3'd AUF instead of U2, but this is the best solve I have on cam so far:

Generated By csTimer on 2017-1-3
single: 14.24

Time List:
1. 14.23 U' R2 F2 U2 L2 U L2 F2 R2 B2 D F U' B R' B2 D' B L2 U F





I'll work on the camera angle when I finish OLL!!!


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## pglewis (Jan 3, 2017)

pipkiksass said:


> I think if I ever stop procrastinating and learn full OLL, I'll buy a hat, eat said hat, and post a video on YouTube of me eating the hat while one-looking various OLLs.



And I'll be an instant subscriber! $.02 from someone who knows fewer OLL algs than you: pick one group at a time that you don't know and learn the whole group. That way when you recognize any in the group you're guaranteed you know it; no extra sub-divided recognition within the group, deciding. Then use it in place of whatever edge OLL it fixes whenever you 2-look so you get lots of extra practice in real solves. Recognition and recall still takes good ol' fashioned grinding for me, though, and low OLL frequency doesn't help. 

Also: choose a hat with a high contrast. 



pipkiksass said:


> Came out at 18.82, and I was disappointed with that, which I feel is a good thing. Still lots of silly mistakes, but it's at the stage where I can screw up a solve and still bring it in under 20 seconds on occasion.



I'm just waiting for that sub-12 Ao5. That day when your concentration level is really good, you're warmed up, and you hit a string where you keep the main mistakes away. And since that's going to happen I suppose we should be talking about your upcoming sub-10 Ao5...


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## teacher77 (Jan 4, 2017)

Hey guys 

Vacations came in handy : I had time to practice and I come around with a bunch of new PBs : remember that 18.45 s I thought was so low I would not acheive better in a long time ? Well I got 18.11  And those are still my ONLY two sub 20 singles. I just had a 25.05 Ao5 today and I broke the 28 sec barrier a few times for Ao10, with a 27.33 being the best so far.

Also, I wanted to thank @defhacks for pointing me to "multislotting theory". I spent a few hours reading about it but frankly it's above my paygrade for now : I still screw up on some basic PLLs at least 2% of the time and I'm not able to complete the cross on the bottom unless it's a 4-move cross. I guess those are my next targets for practice.


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## Shaky Hands (Jan 4, 2017)

teacher77 said:


> Hey guys
> 
> Vacations came in handy : I had time to practice and I come around with a bunch of new PBs : remember that 18.45 s I thought was so low I would not acheive better in a long time ? Well I got 18.11  And those are still my ONLY two sub 20 singles. I just had a 25.05 Ao5 today and I broke the 28 sec barrier a few times for Ao10, with a 27.33 being the best so far.
> 
> Also, I wanted to thank @defhacks for pointing me to "multislotting theory". I spent a few hours reading about it but frankly it's above my paygrade for now : I still screw up on some basic PLLs at least 2% of the time and I'm not able to complete the cross on the bottom unless it's a 4-move cross. I guess those are my next targets for practice.



Good to hear you're getting some nice times there and you're bringing your averages down.

I'd definitely recommend working on solving the cross at the bottom as a priority. What you call a 2% failure rate, the optimist in me would call a 98% success rate (!) which is nothing to be too concerned about.


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## mark49152 (Jan 4, 2017)

teacher77 said:


> "multislotting theory"


Yeah I got interested in that too and spent a lot of time on analysing its potential. There are a few neat tricks but on the whole it's not worth it. Assuming the objective is to setup pair #2 while inserting pair #1, in most cases the multislotting solution is not significantly shorter than separating the steps, and recognition and poorer fingertricks would cancel out any minor move count benefit.

The most useful techniques are preserving pair #2 where it's already made, and using the pair #1 insert to split up a nasty case for pair #2, or to extract it from a slot if it's stuck.


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## h2f (Jan 4, 2017)

About multi-slotting... Look at this scramble I got just a moment ago: R2 U2 B2 F' L2 B' D2 B' F2 R U F L2 B2 R' U F' U. First solve a day so I got only 11.59. When I redid it was 9.52 - fullstep in both cases with different f2ls...


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## mark49152 (Jan 4, 2017)

h2f said:


> About multi-slotting... Look at this scramble I got just a moment ago: R2 U2 B2 F' L2 B' D2 B' F2 R U F L2 B2 R' U F' U. First solve a day so I got only 11.59. When I redid it was 9.52 - fullstep in both cases with different f2ls...


Where does multislotting come in? The obvious white cross gives a free x-cross, then the second pair is already set up. I don't see any obvious multislotting opportunity on the last two pairs...?


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## h2f (Jan 4, 2017)

I meant preserving a pair when ready - it's just loose assiocation with what you are talking about.


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## Shaky Hands (Jan 4, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> Where does multislotting come in? The obvious white cross gives a free x-cross, then the second pair is already set up. I don't see any obvious multislotting opportunity on the last two pairs...?



I would have done a double X-cross here using x2 L B U' F rather than the single X-cross using x2 L B F.


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## Shaky Hands (Jan 4, 2017)

Guess that's my FMC PB too (35):

x2 // inspection
L B U' F // double X-cross
U L' U' L U' B U B' // 3rd
U' L' U L // 4th
y2 F R U R' U' F' // easy OLL
y R2 u R' U R' U' R u' R2 y' R' U R // G-perm
U2 // AUF


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## mark49152 (Jan 4, 2017)

Shaky Hands said:


> I would have done a double X-cross here using x2 L B U' F rather than the single X-cross using x2 L B F.


Very nice. I never look for x-crosses and didn't notice the first one until afterward.


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## Logiqx (Jan 4, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> Very nice. I never look for x-crosses and didn't notice the first one until afterward.



I had a nice easy x-cross on the train today. Three cross pieces were pre-solved and a formed pair was in the top layer.

R U' R' inserted the pair and popped the 4th cross piece into the U-layer.
U2 L2 inserted the final cross piece.

It was a nice start to an untimed solve.


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## pipkiksass (Jan 4, 2017)

Couple of days without timing 5x5, so I thought I'd try timing some solves. 

Having only had one sub-4 before, of the 12 solves only 3 were sup-4. PB single - 3:21.22, Ao5 - 3:40.35, and Ao12 - 3:49.09.

Now I'm going to stop procrastinating and learn some OLLs!!!!


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## Logiqx (Jan 4, 2017)

pipkiksass said:


> Now I'm going to stop procrastinating and learn some OLLs!!!!



How many do you still need to learn?


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## pipkiksass (Jan 4, 2017)

Logiqx said:


> How many do you still need to learn?



I've ticked off another 3 today, which leaves 16. Of the ones I "know", there's still a few which are a little dodgy. I reckon, with renewed focus, I can finish the rest this month...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## earth2dan (Jan 4, 2017)

pipkiksass said:


> Interestingly, we're in a similar position on 4x4, but you're a clear couple of minutes faster than me on 5x5! I've been reading, with interest, the Hoya vs. Reduction debate on this thread. I've never considered anything other than reduction, after looking into Yau5 and finding it ridiculously convoluted.


It didn't take you long to surpass me at 3x3 and catch up on 4x4. I'm sure with a little practice you'll be right up there with 5x5 as well. I use plain old reduction for 5x5, and I only know one edge alg (for that ugly last single edge parity case). I played with Hoya a bit and I can see it's appeal, but I'm still seeing gains with reduction and I'm not sure it would be worth it for me to switch.



teacher77 said:


> I still screw up on some basic PLLs at least 2% of the time and I'm not able to complete the cross on the bottom unless it's a 4-move cross. I guess those are my next targets for practice.


So 2 out of 100 times you mess up a PLL? I wouldn't sweat that too much, it's probably better than me haha . And yes, definitely switch to cross on bottom. The lookahead towards your first F2L pair is invaluable. I spent one evening a long time ago training myself to do cross on bottom and never looked back. A really good practice is to just scramble and solve the cross over and over again while taking as much inspection time as you need (forget 15 seconds, it's not a comp). Then when you're comfortable with that, scramble and solve the cross blind over and over again. I still do this once in a while when I find my crosses are getting lazy.


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## pglewis (Jan 4, 2017)

teacher77 said:


> remember that 18.45 s I thought was so low I would not acheive better in a long time ? Well I got 18.11  And those are still my ONLY two sub 20 singles. I just had a 25.05 Ao5 today and I broke the 28 sec barrier a few times for Ao10, with a 27.33 being the best so far.



Great progress and you've probably knocked down a mental wall, having done it twice now. It's also good motivation for me to try to keep pace, you keep forging ahead and I'll try to follow in your footsteps.



pipkiksass said:


> Of the ones I "know", there's still a few which are a little dodgy. I reckon, with renewed focus, I can finish the rest this month...



Yeah, as I found back with PLL, there's "knowing the alg" and then there's using it in an actual speedsolve. I know 8 OLLs beyond EOLL but I still rarely use the squares (newest for me) when they turn up. Either my edge OLL recog takes over before I realize "OH!", or I recognize it but then feel the delay on recall and ditch it for 2 look still. OLL is going to be a big focus for me after this weekend but I figure it could be a few months after I "know them" before I really reap the full benefits.


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## newtonbase (Jan 4, 2017)

Consecutive PLL skips on 4x4! Untimed of course.


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## Shaky Hands (Jan 5, 2017)

pglewis said:


> Yeah, as I found back with PLL, there's "knowing the alg" and then there's using it in an actual speedsolve. I know 8 OLLs beyond EOLL but I still rarely use the squares (newest for me) when they turn up. Either my edge OLL recog takes over before I realize "OH!", or I recognize it but then feel the delay on recall and ditch it for 2 look still. OLL is going to be a big focus for me after this weekend but I figure it could be a few months after I "know them" before I really reap the full benefits.



I used to not use some algs that I was trying to embed into muscle memory in a speedsolve as I didn't want to affect an average I was working on. Now I attempt it anyway and if I mess it up, I just delete the solve from the average I'm counting it towards. Better to try than not is my theory. Obviously I can't do this in a competition but if I'm just sitting down to do a quick Ao12, I think it's fair game to do so.

One thing that slows me down with finishing up OLL is that I'm doing 90% of my practice on Big Cubes, so the percentage of time I'm actually practicing OLL is way lower than it used to be.


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## JohnnyReggae (Jan 5, 2017)

It's been rather a strange day so far. After struggling with a stomache bug and spending most of the previous evening violently throwing up and spending most of yesterday in bed as sick as a dog, I am back at work today as a number of people are on leave and coverage of services is required. Nonetheless I feel terrible but I decided to do a few solves at work. First off 4x4 ... 2nd solve in I a get a PB of 1:03.05 which had a PLL skip. I decide to take a walk and get some fresh air and sun and go sit up at the Varsity sport fields and do a little OH. So not only did I get a new PB of 27.45 I also broke my mo3 and ao5 .... strange day indeed 

4x4 = 1:03.95 U F' Fw2 L' Rw2 R' U2 L2 Uw L F Uw2 F2 B' R Fw' F' U2 Fw Rw L2 Fw2 Uw' Fw2 U' Fw2 B Uw L R2 D' F' Rw D2 Fw2 L2 F' R2 Rw' F2

OH = 27.45 F' L2 F' D2 R2 B2 D2 R2 B R2 U B2 D2 F' R F' R' D' U


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## mafergut (Jan 5, 2017)

@Shaky Hands I have been doing something similar when, e.g. I was doing a 3x3 Ao100 and I suddenly found a nice non-white/yellow cross. I would try out the solve with the blue, green... whatever cross color and delete the solve from the average afterwards. Right now I have really stopped doing serious Ao100 because I'm in the process to becoming full CN so, next time I do a serious Ao100 it would be under those conditions. The other day I did one already but my focus was not good times, just trying to get the hang of finding the best cross from 6 sides instead of just two in more or less the 15 second limit. The Ao100 was 20.7x and the best Ao50 in there was 20.39 so not globally sub-20 full cn yet but less than 2 seconds off my PB on white/yellow cross so, I'm going for it.

@JohnnyReggae I hope you feel better soon. Very nice 4x4 solve and that OH single beats my PB . I just had a double disappointment at 4x4. I stopped the timer and saw a 1:00.65, almost two seconds better than my PB single but... so close to sub 1 minute!!!! Dang! I rotate the cube and I see that I had adjacent PLL parity on the back, so it's a DNF


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## JohnnyReggae (Jan 5, 2017)

mafergut said:


> @JohnnyReggae I hope you feel better soon. Very nice 4x4 solve and that OH single beats my PB . I just had a double disappointment at 4x4. I stopped the timer and saw a 1:00.65, almost two seconds better than my PB single but... so close to sub 1 minute!!!! Dang! I rotate the cube and I see that I had adjacent PLL parity on the back, so it's a DNF


I had exactly that last week, stopped the timer on what should have been a PB only to find an adjacent PLL parity at the back ... so disappointing  At least that has been rectified this week ;-)


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## Logiqx (Jan 5, 2017)

Not too shabby for a Skewb noob?

Best of all: 4.242
Worst of all: 21.986
Average of all: 12.723
Best Avg of 5: 7.774
Best Avg of 12: 11.097
Best Avg of 50: 12.273
Best Avg of 100: 12.723

The 7.77 Ao5 was lucky of course!

Progress below. I quite enjoy this event but it isn't great on my ageing wrists!


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## pglewis (Jan 5, 2017)

Shaky Hands said:


> Now I attempt it anyway and if I mess it up, I just delete the solve from the average I'm counting it towards. Better to try than not is my theory. Obviously I can't do this in a competition but if I'm just sitting down to do a quick Ao12, I think it's fair game to do so.



That's a good idea. Also, I'll be timing a lot less frequently after this weekend. First new priorities will be more OLL and a focus on white/yellow neutral. Full CN may become a 2017 goal for me as well, I've had some sub-40 solves on non white/yellow so there shouldn't be much excuse for me other than laziness on practicing it.

@Logiqx: I'm using your PDFs to try to get another over-40 solving. His last resolution to learn to solve apparently ended in cube violence so we'll see. I really like your beginners approach to F2L. Ever since moving from LBL to F2L I've felt it's almost useless for beginners to learn LBL because you pretty much want to ditch it in favor of pairs the moment you can solve. Your beginners approach there seems like the best of both worlds, cheers!


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## CLL Smooth (Jan 5, 2017)

I've seen a lot of talk on this thread of turning the timer off for practice. I used to do a lot of this and there is much to be learned from it. I also see the recent talk of deleting solves in the middle of averages if you want to spend a little time working different algs/techniques in your solves. I've also done this in the past but have adopted a different approach lately.
I use the timer always, now. Mainly for the scrambles and the routine. Sometimes I even do that big pause at LS or LL to remember and incorporate new algs into my routine. Now, I just keep all of my times. I don't see it as fair to count an average that I deleted a solve from. The hardest part about this approach is just not caring.
I did do some untimed practice the other day, though. It was blind cross+1st pair. I recommend it to all.


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## pglewis (Jan 5, 2017)

CLL Smooth said:


> Now, I just keep all of my times. I don't see it as fair to count an average that I deleted a solve from.



I'm of two minds on this, I guess it mostly comes down to what you're looking to get out of the timed sessions. If I'm considering my timer runs as comp practice then what we all normally do isn't really accurate, tbh. We're churning out timed solve after timed solve rather than a solve followed by 1 to N practice solves waiting for the scramble/timer seat. I'm not at the stage where I'm tracking longer term averages yet, but I imagine plenty of people track Ao1000 runs that were broken up with untimed solves between timed sessions. So I don't view it ridiculously strictly if I see an easy orange cross and think, "I'll discard this time because I consider it an experimental solve and not a speedsolve"; timed sessions often have experimental solves in between. But if I subsequently get a :17 and decide to keep it, now I'm probably crossing over the line into cherry picking (for me) . All that said, I've never discarded any solves from within an AoX that I've "counted" for a PR.

As for untimed solves: I believe they've helped me make progress but then again, how could I know? It's possible I would have progressed just as well or better timing them all, be what may. I believe it helped me mentally not to see scads of times ten+ seconds slower than usual because...



CLL Smooth said:


> The hardest part about this approach is just not caring.


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## Logiqx (Jan 5, 2017)

pglewis said:


> @Logiqx: I'm using your PDFs to try to get another over-40 solving. His last resolution to learn to solve apparently ended in cube violence so we'll see. I really like your beginners approach to F2L. Ever since moving from LBL to F2L I've felt it's almost useless for beginners to learn LBL because you pretty much want to ditch it in favor of pairs the moment you can solve. Your beginners approach there seems like the best of both worlds, cheers!



Cool. It's nice to know that my slides are getting some re-use. They took quite some time to create, mostly on the train to work instead of practicing!

Let me know how you both get on with the lessons. Good luck.


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## kbrune (Jan 5, 2017)

I've been doing some BLD practice. I figured id find out what my typical memo/execution splits are. Although not very accurate (memo was only identifying sticker) I came up with approximately 1 minute for each. Which would potentially give me a 2 min average

When doing proper bld solves I'm currently averaging 3 min. So memo is most likely around 2 min. I use OP/M2

Based on this. I can't fathom how I'm ever going to get anywhere close to 1 min bld solves! I mean I'm working on transitioning to 3 cycle. But it'll be a long time before I can use it in solves. Even when pushing memo today I managed a 2:27.xy Missed by a twisted corner.

Any thoughts or advice from the Bld pros on improving memo speeds? 
@mark49152 @h2f and whoever else has anything to offer.

Apologies for the incoherent post lol


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## h2f (Jan 5, 2017)

@kbrune - only regular practice is the answer. The progress will come naturally. When you will feel comfortable with what you're doing you can learn 3style, but in fact it's not necessery to be around 1 minute. I've learnt it only because OP corners seemed boring to me.


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## mark49152 (Jan 5, 2017)

@kbrune - memo is one of those things that won't improve unless you push it. The brain settles on a comfortable pace and you need to push it out of its comfort zone. You can just rush memo during regular practice, or devise specific exercises for speeding up your memo, whatever you prefer.


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## mark49152 (Jan 5, 2017)

@Shaky Hands , @pglewis, @CLL Smooth and others: I also delete some solves from sessions. My logic is this. I record my averages to measure my progress, so I count only those solves that are relevant to what I am trying to measure. Generally, I want to measure my speed. I do not care about measuring my success rate executing new algs correctly, but I do want to practise those algs when the chance arises. Therefore if I am doing a timed session and a new case comes up, I immediately mentally note that this is an "alg practice" solve which will be excluded from the average, and continue.

On the other hand, when I was measuring my performance while learning BLD corner comms, I would count all the times where I was hesitant or slow with new comms. That's because the impact of the new comms, including hesitancy or slowness, was directly relevant to the progress I was trying to measure.


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## newtonbase (Jan 6, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> @kbrune - memo is one of those things that won't improve unless you push it. The brain settles on a comfortable pace and you need to push it out of its comfort zone. You can just rush memo during regular practice, or devise specific exercises for speeding up your memo, whatever you prefer.


Agreed. My biggest improvements came when I hammered memo. Successes become less frequent but when they come they are quicker and quicker.


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## Jason Green (Jan 6, 2017)

My thought on deleting solves is this, try to use the strategy that you believe will give you the most improvement. Some people I guess might be motivated by the slowness of a new alg to drill it more or something. For me I wanted to know how fast I could average without any new algs so I would also delete when learning them (it's been a while since I learned any). A week or so before comp I would usually do strict practice with no deletes. I've been happy with my progress in general so I would say it worked for me. 

I do not count any PBs from that type of session though, those have to be complete and unaltered for me.


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## teacher77 (Jan 6, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> The most useful techniques are preserving pair #2 where it's already made, and using the pair #1 insert to split up a nasty case for pair #2, or to extract it from a slot if it's stuck.



Thanks for the heads up. Is there any reference describing these three specific techniques that you could point me to ? Or should I gatter bits and pieces while looking at the entire theory ?



earth2dan said:


> So 2 out of 100 times you mess up a PLL? I wouldn't sweat that too much, it's probably better than me haha .



It's worse than that in fact. I'd say that I screw up about once out of 10-15 PLLs. For example, I often confuse the ending of the Rb-perm and the Gc-perm. But there's also one of the 21 algs that I didn't even bother to learn yet (Ga perm - I use 2-look instead), so if I include thise as "screwing up", then I should have said that my screw up rate is 10-12% :-S



earth2dan said:


> And yes, definitely switch to cross on bottom. The lookahead towards your first F2L pair is invaluable. I spent one evening a long time ago training myself to do cross on bottom and never looked back. A really good practice is to just scramble and solve the cross over and over again while taking as much inspection time as you need (forget 15 seconds, it's not a comp). Then when you're comfortable with that, scramble and solve the cross blind over and over again. I still do this once in a while when I find my crosses are getting lazy.



That's definitly next on my list. I DID try to solves crosses on bottom but I screw up most of the time, unless they're really easy.

In fact, here's my list, if anyone would care to comment on the order or the relevance, etc. :

1) master a satisfying alg for all 21 PLLs
2) master cross on bottom
3) improve PLL recognition (learn to recognize from 2 sides)
4) Other stuff, in whatever order I'll find relevant by then :
- learn some of the easy OLLs (I know 12 of them only)
- learn how to make an X-cross
- improve my lookahead (currently able only to find a corner piece ahead or a single pair at best)


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## mark49152 (Jan 6, 2017)

teacher77 said:


> Thanks for the heads up. Is there any reference describing these three specific techniques that you could point me to ? Or should I gatter bits and pieces while looking at the entire theory ?


Most of my thoughts and work on multislotting are captured here: https://www.speedsolving.com/forum/threads/cfop-efficiency-and-multi-slotting.45301/

@Escher's walkthrough towards the start of the thread is a nice illustration of how multislotting in practice tends to be more about tricks and techniques than algorithmic solutions.


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## JanW (Jan 6, 2017)

@teacher77 I would also recommend you start working on doing cross exclusively on the bottom as soon as possible. It might take some time to get used to and lead to lots of messed up solves in the beginning, but this is an even better reason to start working on it asap. The sooner you start, the sooner you'll get used to it. Since you are already quite fast, you will probably take a proportionally quite large hit to your times at first, but it is definitely worth it.

I've been taking it quite easy the first days of this year. Not too much timed solving. Today 50 solves, which included new pb Ao5 and Ao12. The Ao5 was quite amazing with 3 16.xx solves within 4 solves. As I see more and more full-step 16s, I feel I might eventually be able to break my super lucky pb single from last fall!


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## kbrune (Jan 6, 2017)

@mark49152 @h2f

I'm not even sure how to push my memo beyond where it is now. So far when I push memo faster. The info doesn't stay in my mind. 

Is it possible that my brain just won't be able to retain the information? 

A better way to explain this idea for me is this. So far. To be able to recall my targets. I have to repeat them a few times as I memo them. (I use images for corners and phonetic words for edges). 
To speed up the memo I'd have to reduce the repetition meaning I'd have to settle for either one or 2 looks at most for each pair so to speak, rather then repeating them several times. I've been able to cut down repetition on the first few pairs because I end up repeating them anyway as I go. So usually the fist 2 or 3 pairs I don't repeat at all. Then as I add more I repeat the whole sequence in my mind before adding the next piece. Of course there's way more that goes on but this is a simplified account of what I do. 

Is there a better way for me to look at this whole thing? Perhaps I need to look a better memo methods for single solves?

Apologies for being a broken record on this topic. If it really does come down to just pushing memo speeds and forgetting it all is part of the process of pushing your brain to be capable of one looking pairs. I will keep plugging away. Memo just seems to be so difficult to figure out how to improve for me.

@newtonbase 
What's you bld times like? Are you focusing on the event?


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## h2f (Jan 6, 2017)

kbrune said:


> Is it possible that my brain just won't be able to retain the information?
> 
> A better way to explain this idea for me is this. So far. To be able to recall my targets. I have to repeat them a few times as I memo them. (I use images for corners and phonetic words for edges).
> To speed up the memo I'd have to reduce the repetition meaning I'd have to settle for either one or 2 looks at most for each pair so to speak, rather then repeating them several times. I've been able to cut down repetition on the first few pairs because I end up repeating them anyway as I go. So usually the fist 2 or 3 pairs I don't repeat at all. Then as I add more I repeat the whole sequence in my mind before adding the next piece. Of course there's way more that goes on but this is a simplified account of what I do.



In my case that was the other way. First - how long does it take for you to go through all targets? For example for me, when my memo was around 2 minutes it took me around 1:20. Next I was repeating it several times and went to corners which I did with audio pairs and I needed less time to remember. Now it takes me around 8-10 seconds at best moments and if I push and I repeat it (or imagine the image) once or two and go to corners. If I remember it well I did push sessions few times when my memo was around 1 minute but the main factor to speed up the memo proces was that I was comofortable with my letter scheme and my images/words plus few techniques like touching edges with left and right hand fingers. I think the biggest factor is just regular practice and pushing your memo when you feel comfortable. How many solves do you do per day or per week, if I may ask?


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## mafergut (Jan 6, 2017)

teacher77 said:


> In fact, here's my list, if anyone would care to comment on the order or the relevance, etc. :
> 1) master a satisfying alg for all 21 PLLs
> 2) master cross on bottom
> 3) improve PLL recognition (learn to recognize from 2 sides)
> ...



I would re-order: cross on bottom, good 21 PLL algs, lookahead, learn more OLLs, x-cross, 2sided PLL recog,


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## mark49152 (Jan 6, 2017)

@kbrune - yes it takes hard work, just like improving at any event. To speed up memo you need to read the targets from the cube faster, map them to images quicker, form those into a memorable scene quicker, get it to stick and move on to edges quicker, trace the edges and form audio words quicker, and avoid reviews. Trying to go faster is really quite uncomfortable, but you do need to push beyond your comfort zone.

One technique I use is to set a countdown timer for say 30 seconds. Start timer and rush memo, and when the timer beeps, close eyes and execute. If you haven't finished memo, tough, it will be DNF, but execute as much as you can anyway. Having that time limit puts pressure on the memo and forces you to rush it.


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## pglewis (Jan 6, 2017)

I've done about an hour to 90 mins a day of timed solves at the coffee shop this week for distraction practice. I think it was a good decision, I could feel a difference in my concentration the past two days vs. Tuesday. 3x3 times were about 10 seconds slower than normal today, though, just one of those days. Yesterday was fairly good including a couple more sub 30s. 

The plan to start absorbing new OLLs next week may have hit a serious challenge: I just got a mirror blocks cube as my first shape-shifter. Totally fascinating.


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## SenorJuan (Jan 6, 2017)

HeHe, fascinating indeed. Once you get the basics sorted, you have to try it unsighted, by touch alone. Rather satisfying when it's done for the first time.


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## newtonbase (Jan 6, 2017)

kbrune said:


> @newtonbase
> What's you bld times like? Are you focusing on the event?


I have a 1:32 PB but average around 2:20. Any sub 2 mins makes me happy at the moment. It's definitely my favourite event but I don't get to practice anywhere near enough. 
@pglewis The mirror blocks is my favourite shape shifter. I have the solid pink Yuxin (amongst others) which is a pleasure to solve. I agree with @SenorJuan about no inspection blind solving. You must try it.


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## muchacho (Jan 7, 2017)

I don't know why but today my OH times (now averaging 33-34, last days was 36 or more) are too good, wondering if maybe sub-25 by year's end was not so far-fetched after all #keepdreaming

New PBs
Single: 21.543
Ao5: 26.883
Ao12: 29.546


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## Lid (Jan 7, 2017)

First PB of the year. SQ-1 of cause 
(12.225), 12.674, 14.781, 16.040, (18.315[p]) = 14.498
which almost also became a PB for a12; (12.225), 12.674, 14.781, 16.040, 18.315[p], 18.861[p], 17.460, (20.114[p]), 15.350, 16.913[p], 16.125, 16.838 = 16.336


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## pipkiksass (Jan 7, 2017)

Got my old Valk 3 (white) out because I was hiding one of my daughter's toys behind a mountain of cubes (fun!), and decided to do a comparison of my times on the white and stickerless (main). Second solve on the stickerless was a NL PB!

12.01 - F2 D F2 U' L2 U2 R2 D F2 U' F2 B U' L2 R D R B D B2 - nice scramble - 3 move cross. I think this shows how much difference a good cross makes to my solves.

Back to learning full OLL now. For any who are interested, I've decided on a change of method. Rather than learning 1/2 algs at a time, I've gone for what I did when learning full PLL many years ago - I've used @Logiqx DIY sheets, deleted the cases I know. I've replaced a couple of algs, leaving all of my favourites from 4 years of scribbles, and a very neat and very select group of OLLs. I'm annotating with directions (such as 'bar on left', etc.) for recognition and execution.

The way I figure is that when I learned full PLL I didn't care so much about times - 45 seconds was a good solve, so I didn't mind stopping and looking up an alg mid-solve. I'd like to get back to that, so when it comes to learning them, I'm just slow solving (other than this cube vs. cube comparison) with my alg sheets in front of me, and using the sheets when I hit an unknown case. Over time (as with PLL many moons ago), I'll use the sheets less and less, but the absence of time/timer pressure means that I can just solve and refer to the sheets without worrying about messing up a good solve. I'm taking the opportunity also to practice cross + 1 and general lookahead, intending to do very few timed solves until I can recall the vast majority of the remaining OLLs. 

Anyway, the outcome of my experiment is that I'm over a second faster with the stickerless - 18.32 vs. 19.35.

Totally scientific. Ao12 FTW!!!


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## JanW (Jan 7, 2017)

Tried some PLL attacks again. First 5 between 1:00.006-1:08.7, then finally a sub-1 with 59.92 on the 6th attempt. That would be 6th completed attempt, there was lots of DNFs in between as well that I didn't complete if I messed up badly.

Next I wanted to see how well I can do it blind. First one ended up with a complete mess, 2nd attempt was successful at 1:12.76.  The blind PLL attack is interesting. It reveals quite well which PLL algs I'm still not 100% sure about.


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## pglewis (Jan 7, 2017)

Second comp in the books for me, much better than the first go-round. 

3x3: 44.90/48.36. Still about 10 seconds off my at-home times but my concentration was obviously much better. Table practice was actually running fairly close to my home times. Botched the very first solve with a 1:03 but didn't let it faze me too much. Some little F2L mistakes on all the others, coulda-shoulda been sub 40 on at least 2 but, meh... I'll be quite a bit faster in 4-6 more months anyway. 

2x2: 12.94/18.70. DNF'ed the first solve. Misread PBL (my biggest weakness), did the wrong alg, and stopped the timer before I saw it. Had to be extra careful on the rest because I was determined to get an average. Ended with a counting 25 when I blacked out on the PBL alg and had to fix things up. Still, that's PBs across the board and leaves me tons of room to beat it next time out.


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## newtonbase (Jan 7, 2017)

pglewis said:


> Second comp in the books for me, much better than the first go-round.
> 
> 3x3: 44.90/48.36. Still about 10 seconds off my at-home times but my concentration was obviously much better. Table practice was actually running fairly close to my home times. Botched the very first solve with a 1:03 but didn't let it faze me too much. Some little F2L mistakes on all the others, coulda-shoulda been sub 40 on at least 2 but, meh... I'll be quite a bit faster in 4-6 more months anyway.
> 
> 2x2: 12.94/18.70. DNF'ed the first solve. Misread PBL (my biggest weakness), did the wrong alg, and stopped the timer before I saw it. Had to be extra careful on the rest because I was determined to get an average. Ended with a counting 25 when I blacked out on the PBL alg and had to fix things up. Still, that's PBs across the board and leaves me tons of room to beat it next time out.


Congratulations. PBs across the board is ideal. You'll feel much more at home at competitions from now on.


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## One Wheel (Jan 7, 2017)

Lid said:


> First PB of the year. SQ-1 of cause
> (12.225), 12.674, 14.781, 16.040, (18.315[p]) = 14.498
> which almost also became a PB for a12; (12.225), 12.674, 14.781, 16.040, 18.315[p], 18.861[p], 17.460, (20.114[p]), 15.350, 16.913[p], 16.125, 16.838 = 16.336



Nice. I can only wonder if I'll ever get close. I timed my parity alg again today: down to about 14 from the 15.5 last time I timed it. Getting more under 2:00 than over when I solve square-1 these days. It's a very satisfying puzzle.


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## mark49152 (Jan 8, 2017)

Congrats @pglewis!


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## teacher77 (Jan 8, 2017)

mafergut said:


> I would re-order: cross on bottom, good 21 PLL algs, lookahead, learn more OLLs, x-cross, 2sided PLL recog,



You and @JanW both recommended to drop whatever I was doing and start with the cross on bottom so I took your word for it. Today I timed 50 solves with cross on top (as a reference) AND 50 solves with cross on bottom.

This leads to a few questions... But first, the results :

For crosses on TOP, my average for 50 solves was 4.23 sec. I screwed up 2 solves (stopped the timer thinking I had a cross when I didn't), which corresponds to a 4% failure rate. The measured time for these two solves is included in the 4.23 sec average and I didn't add any "penalty" or whatever. Also, and perhaps more importantly, there were many solves (maybe 20-30%, I didn't count them) where I couldn't predict the entire sequence and actually needed to look to place the last piece or sometimes the two last pieces. I'm pretty sure I never can plan more than 4-5 moves in advance.

For crosses on BOTTOM, my average for 50 solves was 5.20 sec. But my screw up rate was 22% (I stopped the timer 9 times thinking I had a cross when I didn't and there were also 2 solves where I stopped the timer although I was pretty sure I had screwed up). Again, the measured times for those 11 screw ups is part of the 5.20 sec average.

Now, I'm thinking that "one more second" is a fairly good start. Especially since I save 0.3-0.4 sec for turning the cube over.

I'm much more concerned with two issues : 
1) Screwing up 22% of the time seems to fit with the number of cross-on-top solves where I NEEDED to look. How can you plan 7-8 moves in advance and remember them ? Do you remember an actual letter sequence like U-F-D2-etc ? Or do you remember a visual image of those moves ? Any specific tricks or maybe ressources I could read ?
2) Concentrating on remembering those moves left me little place to actually look ahead. In 50 solves, there's only a single one, which happened to be a 3-move cross, where I actually had found a pair before the cross was finished. Did it start like that for you guys ? How much time did it take you to be able to solve a cross on the bottom while actually looking ahead ?

As always, thanks everyone for your great input


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## h2f (Jan 8, 2017)

pipkiksass said:


> Anyway, the outcome of my experiment is that I'm over a second faster with the stickerless - 18.32 vs. 19.35.



I got my stickerless few days ago. I've started to break in the cube and my times are little down but I'm a huge fan of stickerelss version. I've noticed two things: colors and plastic is a little bit different (more gummy). The second - the inside pieces are yellow not white as in a previous one I got. My times are a little bit down now.

@teacher77, In a long run doing crosses on bottom pays off a lot. The most important issue you got doing it - you can track the first pair of f2l when doing cross. With cross on the left or top you cant do it. And one of the exercices you can make is doing crosses with closed eyes after you plan how to do it.


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## teacher77 (Jan 8, 2017)

h2f said:


> And one of the exercices you can make is doing crosses with closed eyes after you plan how to do it.



That was my question though : how do you proceed to remember 6-7 moves ? Do you remember a sequence like U-F-L2-etc ? Or more an image of the moves ?


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## pipkiksass (Jan 8, 2017)

teacher77 said:


> That was my question though : how do you proceed to remember 6-7 moves ? Do you remember a sequence like U-F-L2-etc ? Or more an image of the moves ?



Personally, I remember visually, rather than in notation. It really does just get easier with practice. As with all things cubing, I'd highly recommend turning the timer off and just playing - scramble, inspect, close your eyes, solve. 

It's about pushing yourself, it SHOULD be really hard at first, because your brain is learning new stuff. Once things become more comfortable, it'll be easier. That might mean, for now, predicting 4-5 moves is your limit, but push the limit and soon (with practice) 6, 7, or more will be possible.

That said, I still have cases where the cross is REALLY awkward and I don't plan the full solution, just through laziness. Probably costs me a second or more.

There are a few cross example videos on YouTube, but just watch the first few turns of a few example solve vids. Feliks shared a "white cross example solves" vid a couple of years ago.

Also, don't feel the need to time your inspection. I don't, ever. Take as long as you need. Again, this will come down with practice.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## h2f (Jan 8, 2017)

I think I was just imaging the moves I do. At the moment I just do it. I must add that still the cross and the transition to first pair is the weakest part of my solves. If I do it properly my times are around 15-17 seconds. But with bad cross - 19-21 or worse.


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## JanW (Jan 8, 2017)

teacher77 said:


> That was my question though : how do you proceed to remember 6-7 moves ? Do you remember a sequence like U-F-L2-etc ? Or more an image of the moves ?


I remember asking that exact same question in this thread when I first joined, so I can relate to the problem.  It might seem a bit overwhelming at first, but with practice you will learn. I also remember visually, no notation.

As other people said, don't worry about timed inspection yet. You should do hundreds, if not thousands, of crosses on the bottom before you start worrying about that. Take your time planning it and eventually you'll get more and more used to seeing patterns.

For me, crosses only started to feel easier to handle after my adventures with ZZ. After pushing my brain by doing the more complex EOLine for a couple of months, the cross suddenly seemed pretty simple. Though there are still cases that are hard and which I can't figure out all the way in 15 seconds. In that case I usually plan 3 cross edges during inspection and follow the last edge while solving those.


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## SenorJuan (Jan 8, 2017)

On the subject of crosses, I've just been doing some slow 3x3 solves, and completely by chance got a double-X-cross....but then saw the third pair was ready made as a 2x1x1 block. I looked at it for a moment, and had this hunch (based on FMC solving) that a sledgehammer insertion would help the 4th pair. Sure enough, it created the 'easy case' (as it oddly seems to be called). The result was a 13-move first two layers, remarkable. I'm pretty sure I've never done one less than 17 moves when trying my hardest to FMC.

And Teacher - it does take an enormous amount of solves to get competent at the cross. I still can't sus out all 4 pieces every time, I can usually find 3 OK, and run that solve through my mind a few times at the end of the 15 secs, so when I execute it, it's a bit automatic, and I can look-ahead for the 4th edge.


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## mafergut (Jan 8, 2017)

I will add my two cents on the cross on bottom thing and how I plan it. I certainly, as others have commented before, visualize the moves, not the notation, in my head. It becomes easier with practice and, as you say, it's not a bad start at all being just 1 second slower or just half a second if you count turning the cube around. If you count the benefit of better lookahead into 1st F2L pair you are already there. As soon as your cross on bottom improves just a tiny bit you will be improving your averages for sure.

I still have problems at times (less and less frequently) with the 4th edge if the cross is pretty bad and I am trying to do inspection in less than 15 seconds but what still bugs me pretty frequently is the final alignment of cross with centers. Another reason to try and become full color neutral, as it means easier crosses most of the time.

EDIT: PB Ao5 (1:13.98) and Ao12 (1:16.74) while practicing 4x4. Ao5 is more than 1sec better and Ao12 almost 3 seconds . Still, long averages are not sub 1:20


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## pglewis (Jan 8, 2017)

I also judged 3-bld and Pyraminx which was a fun time. Had one 'minx come in unscrambled, lifted the cover, started the stopwatch and I hear the kid say "World Record!" 

@pipkiksass: Nice single there, and here's hoping getting well progresses as well as your times have been. In the past couple of weeks I've also been getting the suspicion that I generally recognize better on stickerless (and also better on half-bright schemes than full-bright... the lighter blue doesn't seem to register as well for me).



teacher77 said:


> Especially since I save 0.3-0.4 sec for turning the cube over.



My decent crosses are in line with your times but my average takes a hit from the bad ones, I'm hoping to improve in that department as well. I always solved cross on top back in the 80s but switched to bottom early in my learning this time around. It was awkward at first but it wasn't long before it was natural. Solving cross on top was actually harder for me about a month after switching, I'd already re-wired the brain. Most of the advice I've read about solving cross on the bottom focuses on saving the time of the cube rotation but as @mafergut points out I think the _real_ hit is the disruption of lookahead into F2L. Maybe expand your timing tests to include Cross+1st pair. As for long-sequence crosses, I'm hoping switching to white/yellow neutral (or maybe even full CN if I'm lucky) will help me in a fair number of cases where white just isn't friendly. You can also do drills targeted specifically at longer sequence crosses.



teacher77 said:


> Concentrating on remembering those moves left me little place to actually look ahead.



I suffer from the same issue. I've had some success intentionally turning very slowly... slowly enough that my brain can not only keep up, but actually gets bored waiting to insert the last edge. I've had much better lookahead into F2L at those speeds, thanks for reminding me to practice this more.


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## efattah (Jan 8, 2017)

Interesting discussion about the cross on the bottom. I am also at the stage where I making a similar transition though I am solving the four bottom corners (as a random face), and I agree the main advantage of this method is the improved lookahead, but it is an extremely frustrating process to learn, as taking steps back is always frustrating, in order to take steps forward. In my quest for sub-15 I came the closest ever today, 15.07 Ao12, more surprisingly three 12 second solves in the same average (see below!) Finally having time for some structured analysis, today came the big bad realization that I need new algorithm sets. I am using 132 algorithms (EG1, CLL, L5E, E2L, + special cases) and I need to add EG2 (40), Waterman L2R (62), and rotationless L5E (36). Hopefully that will be the last of the new sets!

3x3 Ao12 PB average 15.07
Using my backup main (Valk 3)
LMCF method
12.39
14.68
15.24
16.21
16.34
14.22
12.92
16.60
17.16
19.56
14.40
12.97


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## newtonbase (Jan 8, 2017)

It's the Manchester Open next weekend so I started my traditional relearning of Ortega tonight. Some or their algd have actually stuck so I'll get to move on to relearning clock, pyraminx and skewb a little sooner than usual.

I've accidentally entered 6x6 and 7x7 so I've had a little go at using Hoya on 6x6 and quite enjoyef it. It'll take a miracle and a new cube to get me under the 10 min cut off so I'm unlikely to compete but any time spent practicing on the puzzle will help 4x4 and 5x5 so it won't be wasted.


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## teacher77 (Jan 9, 2017)

Maybe an out of topic question but : I'm thinking about buying a StackMat timer. Does that device compute averages and such or is it ONLY a timer ?


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## lillod (Jan 9, 2017)

It is only a timer but it can be connected to a computer and select smartphones with a cord.


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## teacher77 (Jan 9, 2017)

lillod said:


> It is only a timer but it can be connected to a computer and select smartphones with a cord.



as in... It records 50-100 times and you can then transfer them altogheter ?


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## lillod (Jan 9, 2017)

teacher77 said:


> as in... It records 50-100 times and you can then transfer them altogheter ?


 you would have a timing program open and use the stackmat instead of the spacebar.


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## teacher77 (Jan 9, 2017)

SenorJuan said:


> And Teacher - it does take an enormous amount of solves to get competent at the cross. I still can't sus out all 4 pieces every time, I can usually find 3 OK, and run that solve through my mind a few times at the end of the 15 secs, so when I execute it, it's a bit automatic, and I can look-ahead for the 4th edge.



I tried doing that but half of the time the last edge won't end up on the top. What to do then ?


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## JohnnyReggae (Jan 9, 2017)

My take on the Cross on the Bottom .... Think of the edges in relation to each other rather than position. You can always do D moves once they are all placed. To train myself to think quicker about the cross I started using the Inspection timer before solves to force myself to have at least the cross figured out by 8 seconds. I'm still only concentrating on the cross pieces and can have that figured out in a few seconds. It's rare that the timer gets to 8 seconds. I suppose this means I should now be trying to look ahead more into my first pair at least


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## JanW (Jan 9, 2017)

teacher77 said:


> I tried doing that but half of the time the last edge won't end up on the top. What to do then ?


At least it will end up on the top a lot more often with the cross on the bottom than with the cross on the top. This is the thing with cross on the bottom, it is in my opinion a lot easier to do it than cross on top once you get used to it. When building the cross on the bottom, you can much better keep track of where the cross pieces to insert are, in case you forget some of your plan halfway through.

Regarding planning the cross, it shouldn't make any difference if you plan to build it on top or on the bottom. It's just as many moves.


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## pglewis (Jan 9, 2017)

JanW said:


> This is the thing with cross on the bottom, it is in my opinion a lot easier to do it than cross on top once you get used to it. When building the cross on the bottom, you can much better keep track of where the cross pieces to insert are, in case you forget some of your plan halfway through.



Very much this. Granted, it was probably easier for me to switch back when I was still super slow on the cross. @teacher77 is faster on cross solutions than I am so it's bound to be disheartening at first.


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## earth2dan (Jan 9, 2017)

teacher77 said:


> You and @JanW
> I'm much more concerned with two issues :
> 1) Screwing up 22% of the time seems to fit with the number of cross-on-top solves where I NEEDED to look. How can you plan 7-8 moves in advance and remember them ? Do you remember an actual letter sequence like U-F-D2-etc ? Or do you remember a visual image of those moves ? Any specific tricks or maybe ressources I could read ?
> 2) Concentrating on remembering those moves left me little place to actually look ahead. In 50 solves, there's only a single one, which happened to be a 3-move cross, where I actually had found a pair before the cross was finished. Did it start like that for you guys ? How much time did it take you to be able to solve a cross on the bottom while actually looking ahead ?


Only 1 second slower after just learning cross on bottom is very good. The time saved flipping the cube alone nearly negates that.
1) I sort of visualize and program the hand motions into short term memory one at a time. I don't use any kind of notation or specific memory trick. This was really difficult at first. Anything more than a 4 move cross would ruin me. All I can say is that it gets better, and easier with practice. Dedicated cross practice. I still sometimes just plan 3 edges on an ugly cross and slam the last one in however it ends up.
2) Don't worry about lookahead yet, just focus on cross building. When you can comfortably solve your cross blindfolded most of the time, then you're ready to lookahead. At first I didn't bother trying to locate pairs while building my cross, unless it was really easy. I usually just look for a corner I can track so I know where it's going to end up on the last couple moves of my cross, then I can usually spot the edge in time to flow into first pair with minimal pause. Sometimes while doing this you'll notice another pair that's even better than the corner you were tracking.

For me this process has been really slow, and I still have lots of room to improve. I have to revisit it regularly to avoid getting lazy with my crosses again. Cross building isn't one of those skills where once I learned it, it's done. This requires constant maintenance and active practice for me.


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## mafergut (Jan 9, 2017)

Still lots of insigthful comments about cross planning  That's what I love about this thread.

Also @teacher77. Don't be too optimistic about being able to connect a stackmat timer to a computer. Some of the regulars in this thread have tried that and failed, including myself. I bought the cables but as soon as I connected the timer to the laptop it would go awry and stop working.

Today I received my QiYi order (WuQue, WuShuang and WuHua). First impressions:

- WuQue: Very stable. 3x3 stage is very good and LL algs flow very nicely. Almost no need to break it in, as it was good out of the box, even the inner layers. The only "but" is that it's a bit slow and feels too light / with little inertia so I need to adapt the turning a bit and instead of flicking and let it go I have to accompany the layer all the way through or I get undershooting problems. Will do an Ao100 and compare the times with what I am getting now with the CangFeng.

- WuShuang: Nice and easy to turn but maybe a bit too small? I like smaller cubes but maybe this is a bit too much for a 5x5 to be comfortable. I just solved it 3-4 times and once I get used to it I think I'll get at least the same times as with the Yuxin. I like how easy to turn it is, believe it or not my Yuxin is a bit on the heavy side, maybe it needs some lube. A bit less stable than the Yuxin but might have main potential if I can adjust to the small size.

-WuHua: Just turned it a bit, didn't really solve it, but the bigger size compared to the Yuxin 6x6 is quite noticeable. Will have to use it more to form an opinion.


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## mark49152 (Jan 9, 2017)

mafergut said:


> - WuQue: .... The only "but" is that it's a bit slow and feels too light / with little inertia so I need to adapt the turning a bit and instead of flicking and let it go I have to accompany the layer all the way through or I get undershooting problems.


What colour plastic? I have black and it's sluggish.


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## kbrune (Jan 9, 2017)

Thanks for the thoughts on BLD @mark49152 @h2f @newtonbase

I'm going to put more practice I to memo itself. It's the part I have most difficulty with. 

Newton I didn't realize how fast you were at Bld! Wow! Impressive.

@pglewis
Congrats on your PBs at comp! Always feels good to improve official times. Especially when you know you'll beat it again next time.

@teacher77 
Bottom cross is OP. You'll definitely see progress once you adopt it 100%. Guaranteed. I remember when I read a post that mentioned bottom cross. I switched Instantly and never regretted it! Keep at it!

And don't worry too much about being able to solve 7-8 move crosses easily within Inspection. I still can't do it. In fact I struggle to be able to look for one corner while I solve cross. It's my biggest weakness.


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## SenorJuan (Jan 9, 2017)

I've just taken a look at JoeT's UK-Cubes store, to find it's renamed, and is now 'Corner Twist'
http://www.corner-twist.com/
And he has the new 'Ivy' puzzle from QiYi in stock, which looks intriguing and is very affordable, too:
http://www.corner-twist.com/store/p84/qiyi_ivy_cube
And to be fair to Marty, he also sells it:
http://thepuzzlestore.uk/qiyi-mo-fang-ge-ivy-cube-by-eitan/
And there's more 'related' puzzles to come, it seems.


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## mafergut (Jan 9, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> What colour plastic? I have black and it's sluggish.


Mine is stickerless. And yeah, it's quite slow. When I said light I don't mean light to turn but just the opposite. The plastic doesn't seem to have much substance so the friction stops it easily. The CangFeng has much more inertia and less friction so you can flick a layer and it just goes. The WuQue will stop moving as soon as the finger leaves contact with the cube unless you flick really hard. I assume that's the price to pay for stability.

Sent from my Nexus 4 with Tapatalk


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## h2f (Jan 9, 2017)

I've seen a review of Wuque and the youtuber said - if it costs 10$ it would be fine but with the high price over 25$ you expect something better.


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## mark49152 (Jan 9, 2017)

mafergut said:


> Mine is stickerless. And yeah, it's quite slow. When I said light I don't mean light to turn but just the opposite. The plastic doesn't seem to have much substance so the friction stops it easily. The CangFeng has much more inertia and less friction so you can flick a layer and it just goes. The WuQue will stop moving as soon as the finger leaves contact with the cube unless you flick really hard. I assume that's the price to pay for stability.


Yeah I'm a bit disappointed, given all the hype. It is still a nice cube, but it really had the potential to be great. Unfortunately the plastic just generates too much friction and that lets it down.


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## Dom (Jan 10, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> What colour plastic? I have black and it's sluggish.





mafergut said:


> Mine is stickerless. And yeah, it's quite slow. When I said light I don't mean light to turn but just the opposite. The plastic doesn't seem to have much substance so the friction stops it easily. The CangFeng has much more inertia and less friction so you can flick a layer and it just goes. The WuQue will stop moving as soon as the finger leaves contact with the cube unless you flick really hard. I assume that's the price to pay for stability.
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 4 with Tapatalk





h2f said:


> I've seen a review of Wuque and the youtuber said - if it costs 10$ it would be fine but with the high price over 25$ you expect something better.



The Wuque 2nd batch is amazing. If you bought yours from anywhere except Speedcubeshop, then you might have gotten the first batch, which has mold defects on some of the pieces. QiYi and the Cubicle will tell you that it doesn't affect the performance, but my research suggests otherwise. 

I set a new PB right away. I can finally do stuff with the Wuque that were just not possible with any other 4x4.

The following post explains everything: 
QiYi WuQue Review


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## teacher77 (Jan 10, 2017)

Hey I was thinking about competing at the Montreal Open Winter 2017 which is next month. Any of you is going ?

Also, since this will be my very first comp, can you please tell me what to expect ? I know there are rounds (three ?) so I'm assuming I get to solve 1 to 3 times (most probably one) during the day but I have no clue what the cutoff between them is, what to expect as for schedules, etc. Any idea ?


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## mark49152 (Jan 10, 2017)

Dom said:


> The following post explains everything:
> QiYi WuQue Review


Yes I read that post, and replied on the thread. I don't think my issues are down to mold defects. The feel of the puzzle is good and there are no catches. It's more like the plastic is sticky and is better explained by a difference in plastic between black and stickerless.


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## mafergut (Jan 10, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> Yes I read that post, and replied on the thread. I don't think my issues are down to mold defects. The feel of the puzzle is good and there are no catches. It's more like the plastic is sticky and is better explained by a difference in plastic between black and stickerless.


I just read all that thread and even though my cube is stickerless and doesn't feel like it has any mold defect I still think it's slow. I will do one or two Ao100 this week and see if there are any changes with breaking in. Not sure if I should tinker with tensions. I'm afraid of loosening it because of pops. But if Feliks changed from his beloved AoSu to this... Do you know if Feliks' unit is black or stickerless?

Sent from my Nexus 4 with Tapatalk


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## newtonbase (Jan 10, 2017)

teacher77 said:


> Hey I was thinking about competing at the Montreal Open Winter 2017 which is next month. Any of you is going ?
> 
> Also, since this will be my very first comp, can you please tell me what to expect ? I know there are rounds (three ?) so I'm assuming I get to solve 1 to 3 times (most probably one) during the day but I have no clue what the cutoff between them is, what to expect as for schedules, etc. Any idea ?


Have a look at the results from the last time they held it to get an idea of how many rounds there are likely to be and the expected cut offs. I recommend you enter everything you can solve.


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## pipkiksass (Jan 10, 2017)

mafergut said:


> I just read all that thread and even though my cube is stickerless and doesn't feel like it has any mold defect I still think it's slow. I will do one or two Ao100 this week and see if there are any changes with breaking in. Not sure if I should tinker with tensions. I'm afraid of loosening it because of pops. But if Feliks changed from his beloved AoSu to this... Do you know if Feliks' unit is black or stickerless?
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 4 with Tapatalk



I've never known Feliks to use a stickerless cube, but that isn't to say he doesn't... I've never even seen a stickerless cube in the background of one of his videos...

That said, the WuQue seems to be the marmite of the cube world. I'd be interested to see if the plastic is the same feel as the stickerless plastic on the Valk 3 and WuShuang, which I personally like a lot, although it's definitely a completely different feeling to the plastic on my white Valk 3. I prefer it to the plastic on my stickerless Yuxin Blue, which feels (as Mark describes the WuQue) kinda sticky.

I ordered one (stickerless) from Lightake last week because they're ludicrously cheap there. Interested to see if I have a bad mould, or batch, or plastic...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Dom (Jan 10, 2017)

mafergut said:


> I just read all that thread and even though my cube is stickerless and doesn't feel like it has any mold defect I still think it's slow. I will do one or two Ao100 this week and see if there are any changes with breaking in. Not sure if I should tinker with tensions. I'm afraid of loosening it because of pops. But if Feliks changed from his beloved AoSu to this... Do you know if Feliks' unit is black or stickerless?
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 4 with Tapatalk



Now that you've broken it in, take it apart, clean every piece really good, then put it back together with a little bit of medium lube and silk. Break in the lube, and it should improve.

also, what color are your inside pieces? mine are yellow and the plastic is nice and flexible.


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## biscuit (Jan 10, 2017)

pipkiksass said:


> I've never known Feliks to use a stickerless cube, but that isn't to say he doesn't... I've never even seen a stickerless cube in the background of one of his videos...
> 
> That said, the WuQue seems to be the marmite of the cube world. I'd be interested to see if the plastic is the same feel as the stickerless plastic on the Valk 3 and WuShuang, which I personally like a lot, although it's definitely a completely different feeling to the plastic on my white Valk 3. I prefer it to the plastic on my stickerless Yuxin Blue, which feels (as Mark describes the WuQue) kinda sticky.
> 
> ...



He uses a stickerless Yuxin 5x5 (or at least did) and I think he uses a stickerless 7x7. I may be wrong on that though.


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## mafergut (Jan 10, 2017)

Yeah, he's been using a Yuxin 5x5 for a while and he recently changed to a stickerless WuQue and WuJi (he beat the 7x7 WR average with the WuJi) and also a stickerless Moyu Weishi GTS (broke the WR single with it). So, right now, his only stickered "cube" is the Gans 356 Air and that's probably because there is no stickerless version. Well, not sure about 2x2 either, I think he was using a stickered Dayan?

Also in Megaminx he's using a Galaxy stickerless since it came out. Not sure about other puzzles like skewb or pyra.

EDIT: Regarding the WuQue... it's breaking in a bit and that's loosening it some amount so it requires a bit less force to turn now. If it continues changing in that way it will end up being a great cube. But it's already my new main. First 60 timed solves with it and I have improved my PB Ao50 by more than 1 sec and got my 1st sub 1:20 Ao50  (1:19.87). It's so stable that it compensates for the sluggishness as I'm able to turn more accurately and get less lockups.


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## pipkiksass (Jan 10, 2017)

biscuit said:


> He uses a stickerless Yuxin 5x5 (or at least did) and I think he uses a stickerless 7x7. I may be wrong on that though.



I seriously need to catch up, still living in the cubing world of 2013... Feliks still holds the 3x3 single WR, right?? [emoji6] 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## mafergut (Jan 10, 2017)

pipkiksass said:


> I seriously need to catch up, still living in the cubing world of 2013... Feliks still holds the 3x3 single WR, right?? [emoji6]



Well, yeah, after several years of not having it, he regained it some weeks ago. But it's been beaten like 5 or 6 times since he had last held it, if I'm counting right.


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## pglewis (Jan 10, 2017)

mafergut said:


> It's so stable that it compensates for the sluggishness as I'm able to turn more accurately and get less lockups.



This was my take as well. My broken-in G4 is faster, but the 3x3 stage especially LL algs are more dodgy on the G4. Plus I don't tend to worry about pops on the WuQue.

@teacher77: hard-cutoff for 3x3 is usually a generous 10 minutes, so no worries there. They'll usually break up the competitors for each event into "heats", you'll find out what heat you're in for the event and go up when your heat is called. Find the timing sheet with your name on it, put your solved cube on top of it, then wait for them to call your name for your first solve. After the solve you'll initial the time-sheet along with the judge, and go back to the waiting area until they call you again. The comp I just attended sent the top 32 to the second round, all of those were sub 18 averages. Here's the competitor orientation: https://www.cubingusa.com/ctutorial.php


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## CLL Smooth (Jan 10, 2017)

Due to my busy life, I haven't been able to keep up with this thread as much as I'd like. I can't remember the last time I heard something about race to sub-1 on 4x4 but I do remember that being a thing. Maybe Selkie got that one already. I've come quite close to an Ao5 sub-1 several times already. Is it sub-1 Ao12 we're shooting for? And am I too late on this one?


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## Shaky Hands (Jan 10, 2017)

mafergut said:


> Well, yeah, after several years of not having it, he regained it some weeks ago. But it's been beaten like 5 or 6 times since he had last held it, if I'm counting right.



25-Jun-2011 Feliks Zemdegs 5.66
3-Mar-2013 Mats Valk 5.55
25-Apr-2015 Collin Burns 5.25
21-Nov-2015 Lucas Etter 4.90
6-Nov-2016 Mats Valk 4.74
11-Dec-2016 Feliks Zemdegs 4.73

https://www.worldcubeassociation.or...?regionId=&eventId=333&years=&history=History


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## Dom (Jan 10, 2017)

pglewis said:


> This was my take as well. My broken-in G4 is faster, but the 3x3 stage especially LL algs are more dodgy on the G4. Plus I don't tend to worry about pops on the WuQue.


I agree. My G4 with thunderclap springs has less resistance when simply turning than the Wuque, but the Wuque gives me way faster times because I don't have to worry about catches, popping, or lockups. But, by no means would I consider it "sluggish."


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## mafergut (Jan 10, 2017)

@Shaky Hands, Thanks a lot for the information about the 3x3 WR single evolution. It's also worth mentioning, even though it didn't become an official WR, the 5.09 by Keaton Ellis that very same day and comp 

@Dom, sorry, I didn't answer before, internals are white in my WuQue, and by the way, I popped it once already  but I really had a very misaligned U layer during OLL parity so it was my fault mainly.

I'm almost done with my 1st Ao100 and, oh my!!! The running Ao50 has come down another 2 seconds to an incredible (for me) 1:17.71. As I can't believe I have improved 3 seconds in 2 days we have to conclude that a good part of that improvement is due to the cube. Bye bye, KungFu CangFeng  I have also beaten PB Ao5 and Ao12 and Ao100 will be crushed too as soon as I finish the session (93 solves so far) so, right now, my only PB remaining with the CangFeng is single.


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## earth2dan (Jan 10, 2017)

Poor Mats. Barely had it 1 month and Feliks beats him by less than .01. These elite speed cubers are in another realm.

I've begun my 2017 quest for colour neutrality in earnest. Blue seems to be my worst cross colour so I started practicing blue cross only solves last week and just now I finally got my first sub-20 single. It was a great blue cross scramble. My average is still up around 28 though, long ways to go.

19.52 - F2 U' R2 D R2 D2 F2 D' F2 U F2 U F D' R' F L' F D2 B2 R U

Update: Scratch that! Just got 17.45 with a PLL skip - F2 L2 F2 D2 B2 D' R2 B2 D' F2 R2 F L U' L2 F U' F' D' R' B' U2


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## pglewis (Jan 10, 2017)

I think this is my post-comp list for 3x3, still in flux and I haven't prioritized, but plenty to keep me busy:

cross efficiency practice, blind cross practice, cross +1 practice

spam blind F2L pair practice; look for better solutions for a few remaining awkward cases

start picking up a new group of OLLs regularly, maybe one a week

learn a few more angles for some OCLLs to cut down an AUF here and there

white/yellow neutral or even full CN practice

sighted-blind learning
Edit: Nice blue cross solve, @earth2dan!


----------



## pglewis (Jan 11, 2017)

pglewis said:


> sighted-blind learning



Ya know, I think I could probably already get a successful corners only scramble here and there if the cycle breaks and tracking solved pieces aren't too tricky.

Edit: yup, managed it twice in a row with fairly easy ones. Double checked the state in the middle both times, but seem to have the very basics with OP corners with setup moves.


----------



## kbrune (Jan 11, 2017)

@teacher77
I'm going to be at the Montreal comp. I'd be happy to give you a tour so to speak when we're there.

It's very well organized but you still have to pay attention to where they are in the schedule. You'll receive name tag that you can wear as a necklace. On the vm back of it shows your events and respective heat numbers. They normally have a mic and announce the heats. Sometimes it's hard to hear depending on the venue and where you're sitting.

As far as rounds go. With the events they're running. They often run 3 rounds of 3x3. First round will be in the morning around 930-1000 ish. Based on what I've seen in previous comps. Normally you'll need like a sub 16 average (estimation) to possibly make the second round. I averaged 18.59 last competition and missed round 2 by about 15 spots or so. Now this may be different at montreal since there are so many first timers registered. Impossible to know how fast they are.

Happy to answer any questions you have.


----------



## megagoune (Jan 11, 2017)

teacher77 said:


> Hey I was thinking about competing at the Montreal Open Winter 2017 which is next month. Any of you is going ?
> 
> Also, since this will be my very first comp, can you please tell me what to expect ? I know there are rounds (three ?) so I'm assuming I get to solve 1 to 3 times (most probably one) during the day but I have no clue what the cutoff between them is, what to expect as for schedules, etc. Any idea ?


I registered for that competition, and it will be my first as well. I'm afraid I don't have any answer to your questions 
But I look forward to meeting you.


----------



## kbrune (Jan 11, 2017)

@megagoune
@teacher77 

What are your names? I'm Ken


----------



## megagoune (Jan 11, 2017)

kbrune said:


> @megagoune
> @teacher77
> 
> What are your names?  I'm Ken


I'm Jerome. I just noticed that I did not, and actually could not enter my name on my profile page!
I'm happy that I will not be the only old guy around 
Also, I see that some very fast people are registered to the Montreal comp. I am impatient to see a fast solve in real life.


----------



## kbrune (Jan 11, 2017)

megagoune said:


> I'm Jerome. I just noticed that I did not, and actually could not enter my name on my profile page!
> I'm happy that I will not be the only old guy around
> Also, I see that some very fast people are registered to the Montreal comp. I am impatient to see a fast solve in real life.



Oh you're in for a treat! I can't remember who all will be there but I remember seeing Kian, Johnathan and Antoine will be there. I met Antoine at my first comp back in 2012. When his average was "only" 12 seconds lol since then he's held the OH world record and is like #2 or #3 in the world for sum of events. Johnathan and Kian are amazing to watch too. So fast! I can watch them go all day! Very nice dudes too.


----------



## Jason Green (Jan 12, 2017)

CLL Smooth said:


> Due to my busy life, I haven't been able to keep up with this thread as much as I'd like. I can't remember the last time I heard something about race to sub-1 on 4x4 but I do remember that being a thing. Maybe Selkie got that one already. I've come quite close to an Ao5 sub-1 several times already. Is it sub-1 Ao12 we're shooting for? And am I too late on this one?


I haven't been on much either. I'm just now trying to consistently get sub 1:30 to see if I have a chance to qualify at nats.


----------



## muchacho (Jan 12, 2017)

Sub-20 Mo100 at last (19.894), best was 20.303, it took so long (almost 3 months) that I was getting mad 



Spoiler



35407 12-ene-2017 12:36:45 00:26.183 U' F2 D' L2 U F2 D' R2 B2 D2 B2 L U R B F L F' L D2 U
35406 12-ene-2017 12:36:02 00:21.350 U2 R2 U' L2 U R2 D F2 D2 U' F2 L' B F' L2 F' L F' R L'
35405 12-ene-2017 12:35:20 00:19.294 L2 B2 F2 D2 U' L2 U R2 L2 U' F2 R' L' F' R F2 U' B2 L F' L
35404 12-ene-2017 12:34:35 00:20.502 D2 F2 D' F2 D' L2 D' L2 F2 L2 U' B' U' R' U B' D2 R D2 B' F2 D2
35403 12-ene-2017 12:33:46 00:16.047 U R2 B2 L2 U F2 D L2 B2 U2 F2 R D' R B L' F L2 F R' D2 F
35402 12-ene-2017 12:33:05 00:16.855 D L2 B2 D' B2 D2 U L2 U' L2 F' L' D' B' D B2 R D2 F' L U
35401 12-ene-2017 12:32:28 00:16.086 R2 L2 B2 L2 D' B2 D R2 F2 L' D2 R F D L' U' F' R2 U'
35400 12-ene-2017 12:31:51 00:20.319 R2 F2 D2 B2 D2 U' B2 U F2 R2 F D B F2 U' R D' L' U'
35399 12-ene-2017 12:31:13 00:21.431 D L2 F2 U R2 B2 D' B2 U R2 F2 L' B' R2 B2 D B2 F R D U2 L'
35398 12-ene-2017 12:30:32 00:17.151 D R2 D B2 F2 L2 D F2 R2 U R2 B' U' R' D F' L2 B' R D F2 U2
35397 12-ene-2017 12:29:46 00:19.500 R2 D' L2 B2 D R2 F2 D U' B2 F2 L U' R L U B2 D2 B U' F2 U2
35396 12-ene-2017 12:29:08 00:16.846 D2 L2 U F2 U L2 F2 R2 D' B2 D R' B' F' L D L F2 R2 D F D
35395 12-ene-2017 12:28:32 00:16.072 D F2 U F2 L2 B2 L2 F2 D L2 U B' F2 R' B L' D2 U' B2 R
35394 12-ene-2017 12:27:56 00:18.927 F2 U2 B2 D F2 D' B2 L2 U' R2 U' L' B D' B' L2 D L U F2 D2 U'
35393 12-ene-2017 12:27:14 00:18.078 B2 U B2 D' L2 D L2 F2 L2 B2 F2 R' U2 L' F R' D2 F U' F2 D2 U'
35392 12-ene-2017 12:26:33 00:20.496 F2 U' L2 D F2 U' R2 D F2 L2 D R D2 R2 B U' F' U' B2 L2 D
35391 12-ene-2017 12:25:53 00:17.558 D' B2 F2 L2 U' B2 F2 U' F2 D U L' B' F2 L' U2 R L' U B2 D2 U
35390 12-ene-2017 12:25:03 00:27.974 U B2 R2 D2 R2 L2 D B2 L2 D U' L F' D' L2 D R2 B' D2 L' F' U'
35389 12-ene-2017 12:24:07 00:20.167 R2 F2 L2 D2 F2 L2 D2 U' B2 R2 U' L' F' D' L D2 R2 D' U2 B2 L'
35388 12-ene-2017 12:23:28 00:18.303 R2 B2 R2 F2 D' B2 D L2 D' F2 U2 F B2 U' B' L D' F U2 R' F' L
35387 12-ene-2017 12:22:48 00:18.400 R2 D L2 F2 L2 U R2 D' U' F2 U L' B' D U L' B' R F R' L U'
35386 12-ene-2017 12:22:11 00:16.776 D2 F2 L2 D B2 U L2 D R2 F2 L' U' F D R' L2 D2 L2 B' U'
35385 12-ene-2017 12:21:19 00:19.576 D' F2 R2 L2 U B2 U' L2 U2 L2 F2 L' U2 L' B L' F2 R U B F' U
35384 12-ene-2017 12:20:38 00:20.247 B2 U' F2 R2 F2 D2 R2 U' L2 B2 U R U2 B R' D U R2 D2 R B U'
35383 12-ene-2017 12:20:01 00:17.359 D2 F2 D2 L2 U' L2 U R2 D2 R' F' R2 D L' D2 R2 U B U2 L
35382 12-ene-2017 12:19:22 00:22.903 D L2 F2 L2 D2 F2 D' L2 U R2 U' F' L2 D' R' B2 U2 L2 U R U2
35381 12-ene-2017 12:18:24 00:22.558 L2 U' R2 B2 D2 L2 B2 D2 U F2 U' F' R2 U' L' B R F' D' B L' U'
35380 12-ene-2017 12:17:35 00:22.742 R2 L2 U2 L2 U' F2 U' F2 R2 U' F L U' F' U2 R B' D B2 D
35379 12-ene-2017 12:16:54 00:19.983 D F2 L2 D U2 B2 L2 D2 B2 U' R2 F' D2 R2 U F R L2 B' L2 D L'
35378 12-ene-2017 12:16:12 00:22.159 U' L2 D' L2 U R2 L2 D R2 U' R2 B' L D2 R' F2 L2 U' L2 B
35377 12-ene-2017 12:15:38 00:16.815 D' F2 R2 D R2 B2 D2 B2 D F2 U2 R B F L D' U2 R D F D2 U2
35376 12-ene-2017 12:14:57 00:20.368 B2 R2 D' F2 D R2 L2 D' B2 U2 B2 R' B2 F D2 L' U2 F' D2 U' R
35375 12-ene-2017 12:14:15 00:19.102 D2 F2 D L2 D2 F2 R2 D2 L2 F2 L2 F U' L' B' F2 L2 U2 L' B2 F2 U2
35374 12-ene-2017 12:13:17 00:26.006 D B2 R2 B2 D2 L2 U R2 L2 B2 U' F' R' L2 U R2 L' B U' L D2 U'
35373 12-ene-2017 12:12:26 00:15.511 F2 L2 B2 D' L2 D F2 R2 U2 L2 F2 R' B' F U2 L F' R L B2 D' L'
35372 12-ene-2017 12:11:46 00:18.487 B2 L2 B2 L2 F2 D R2 U' F2 R2 U2 F D B R' U' F2 R2 D B' F2
35371 12-ene-2017 12:11:03 00:22.463 L2 U' R2 U' B2 D' B2 U2 R2 B2 D R' B' R L2 B D F R2 D' L U'
35370 12-ene-2017 12:10:18 00:21.671 U' R2 B2 D2 U F2 U L2 B2 R2 F2 L' U' F2 R2 D U B R U2 B U'
35369 12-ene-2017 12:09:31 00:19.568 D2 B2 D' R2 U' L2 B2 U2 R2 L2 D' B' U2 L' B D U2 L F U R'
35368 12-ene-2017 12:08:37 00:19.631 B2 L2 D' R2 B2 U2 B2 U' B2 U' R2 F' R' B2 U' L B L2 D2 U R'
35367 12-ene-2017 12:07:58 00:17.151 D L2 B2 D2 F2 U' F2 U F2 D2 B' L2 F' U' R2 B U2 F L
35366 12-ene-2017 12:07:17 00:22.022 D U L2 D' R2 U' R2 U L2 F2 R U2 F U B' L2 U L U L
35365 12-ene-2017 12:06:41 00:18.374 D' R2 F2 U' L2 U B2 F2 U F2 D' F U2 B' D2 B2 R D B2 L2 U L'
35364 12-ene-2017 12:05:54 00:24.342 L2 U' L2 U R2 F2 D U2 B2 D B' R U2 R2 D R2 U' F U2 L' U2
35363 12-ene-2017 12:05:04 00:21.887 F2 L2 F2 U L2 B2 D R2 L2 D L F2 D' L F2 R' B' F L U2 B D'
35362 12-ene-2017 12:04:20 00:21.183 B2 R2 F2 D2 B2 F2 R2 D F2 U2 L2 F' D' L' U L U R B' U2 R
35361 12-ene-2017 12:03:41 00:19.357 F2 U' R2 U' B2 D' U2 L2 B2 U F2 R D2 B R2 D' B2 F R' D2 F2
35360 12-ene-2017 12:03:01 00:20.519 U' F2 U B2 U' B2 U' L2 U' L2 F2 R U F' R' L2 U R D F' U2
35359 12-ene-2017 12:02:15 00:20.854 L2 U2 R2 D' L2 D' L2 B2 D' R2 U2 L F D' L U2 R2 B2 L2 F' R
35358 12-ene-2017 12:01:33 00:21.375 F2 R2 F2 D F2 U B2 U L2 B2 D' B R' L2 D' R2 B' L F' R2 D'
35357 12-ene-2017 12:00:45 00:22.023 B2 D L2 B2 F2 D B2 L2 F2 L2 U2 B' L' F U2 R2 U F U F D2
35356 12-ene-2017 12:00:01 00:19.367 R2 U L2 U2 B2 R2 U2 F2 D L2 F' D' L2 D' B2 F L' B2 L2
35355 12-ene-2017 11:59:11 00:19.574 D2 B2 D F2 U' B2 D F2 U' L2 D2 B' R' F2 R2 F2 U R' D B L' U'
35354 12-ene-2017 11:58:28 00:17.271 U L2 D L2 U B2 F2 U2 L2 U L' D' R F2 U' F' D L' F2 R' B
35353 12-ene-2017 11:57:48 00:18.584 F2 U R2 B2 U' L2 F2 U L2 U2 B D2 U' F R' B' F2 R F D'
35352 12-ene-2017 11:57:05 00:21.798 D2 L2 U' R2 F2 L2 U2 R2 U' F2 L2 F U' B F D' U' R' D' U' F R'
35351 12-ene-2017 11:56:21 00:19.831 B2 U' L2 U2 R2 D R2 B2 U' R2 D L' D2 U' L2 B L' B R' U2 F'
35350 12-ene-2017 11:55:39 00:18.295 F2 R2 D R2 D B2 U R2 U' B2 D B U' R2 F' D' R' D' L2 D2
35349 12-ene-2017 11:54:54 00:18.558 D L2 U2 R2 D R2 U R2 U2 F2 U' R' B2 F U2 B U L2 B2 F2 L U
35348 12-ene-2017 11:51:52 00:20.007 U B2 D B2 D2 F2 R2 D R2 D R2 F R F' L' B2 U R D2 R B D
35347 12-ene-2017 11:51:14 00:16.709 R2 F2 D L2 D F2 L2 F2 U2 L2 U F L U' R' B R U2 R2 L2 U
35346 12-ene-2017 11:50:30 00:21.215 F2 D2 F2 R2 F2 U2 R2 D2 R2 U B2 L' D' F' D R' B L' F' L' D'
35345 12-ene-2017 11:49:40 00:19.245 U' B2 F2 R2 D' R2 L2 D R2 U' R U2 L B' R F' R2 D' U
35344 12-ene-2017 11:48:56 00:18.511 D R2 U' B2 L2 D B2 U B2 L2 U' L' U2 L2 B' R D' F R' F U L
35343 12-ene-2017 11:48:14 00:20.054 F2 U B2 U' R2 D2 L2 F2 D B2 L2 B' D U2 F2 R' F L B R' B D
35342 12-ene-2017 11:47:33 00:17.935 U F2 D R2 D' F2 R2 U B2 U' B2 R F L2 F2 L B D2 R F L'
35341 12-ene-2017 11:46:52 00:17.847 D2 B2 R2 L2 U' L2 U B2 R2 L2 U' L' F2 D' R' D2 U2 R' U F' D'
35340 12-ene-2017 11:46:15 00:17.912 F2 L2 U2 F2 U' L2 F2 D' B2 D' U B' U R F2 D B D2 L2 F' L'
35339 12-ene-2017 11:45:32 00:18.639 D2 F2 D B2 U2 L2 B2 F2 D2 L2 B2 L F' R B' L' F' L2 U B F U2
35338 12-ene-2017 11:44:50 00:19.375 D' F2 R2 F2 L2 D' B2 F2 U' F2 D B D R' U F2 U' L' B' U L2 D'
35337 12-ene-2017 11:43:59 00:19.431 D2 R2 D B2 L2 D L2 D2 B2 F2 L' B' R B' L2 B U F2 U' R' D2
35336 12-ene-2017 11:43:16 00:20.823 B2 U2 L2 B2 U2 R2 D B2 F2 U2 B2 L D B' L2 D B2 F R2 D F2
35335 12-ene-2017 11:42:33 00:20.463 U B2 D B2 F2 D' U2 L2 D' U' R' B2 F R' F2 L B R' D' B U'
35334 12-ene-2017 11:41:49 00:19.744 D' F2 U' B2 F2 R2 D B2 R2 D2 R2 F' L' U' B' L B2 F2 U F R2 U
35333 12-ene-2017 11:41:08 00:18.894 R2 L2 D F2 U' B2 R2 D U' R2 U2 F' D2 R' L' F' U R' U2 B D' U'
35332 12-ene-2017 11:40:26 00:19.365 F2 L2 D L2 B2 D2 U' L2 F2 U B' U' L F' U' F' D' U' F2 R' U'
35331 12-ene-2017 11:39:39 00:24.766 U' F2 D' L2 B2 R2 D' B2 D' R2 U2 B' D L F' R2 F' R2 B U2 R2 U'
35330 12-ene-2017 11:38:49 00:23.934 L2 U' F2 D' F2 R2 D2 B2 R2 D' L' F R U L' D' F2 R2 F L'
35329 12-ene-2017 11:37:53 00:32.182 F2 L2 U2 R2 U R2 F2 R2 F2 U F2 L B F' D' L U2 B' U' F2
35328 12-ene-2017 11:36:38 00:29.574 F2 D2 F2 D B2 D' L2 D' L2 B2 R U B2 U2 R F L D B R2 U'
35327 12-ene-2017 11:35:53 00:19.462 B2 R2 U' B2 D F2 D B2 L2 F2 R2 B U L' D L B' R' B U2 L' D'
35326 12-ene-2017 11:35:10 00:18.423 D U2 R2 L2 F2 D L2 F2 U' L2 F2 R' L' F' D' L2 D2 B2 R' D' U2
35325 12-ene-2017 11:34:31 00:18.086 U2 L2 F2 D' L2 F2 D2 B2 U B2 U' R' D2 B' L' D' U2 B2 U2 B2 F' U
35324 12-ene-2017 11:33:47 00:19.438 U2 F2 L2 U2 R2 U' R2 F2 L2 D2 B' D F2 U R D2 B' F' U2 L' U2
35323 12-ene-2017 11:33:05 00:18.247 D' B2 R2 U' R2 F2 R2 D R2 L2 U2 L' B U R F' D B' L2 D2 U2
35322 12-ene-2017 11:32:26 00:20.367 U2 F2 R2 U' F2 U L2 U' F2 R2 B2 R' D' B D L2 F' R D F L
35321 12-ene-2017 11:31:34 00:17.879 U L2 D B2 U B2 R2 L2 U R2 B' R B F D F2 R' L B2 U R'
35320 12-ene-2017 11:30:51 00:19.406 R2 B2 F2 D2 B2 D' B2 D' B2 D2 L2 F L F U' F' R2 D2 B U B2
35319 12-ene-2017 11:30:09 00:18.374 B2 R2 D' F2 D2 R2 F2 D' L2 U' B D2 R' B L B2 D' B' F L' D'
35318 12-ene-2017 11:29:25 00:22.711 D' B2 F2 D' L2 B2 U2 R2 F2 D U2 F R D2 B F R' U' F2 L' B' F'
35317 12-ene-2017 11:28:39 00:17.759 F2 D B2 R2 B2 R2 F2 U F2 R2 D' L D F' R B F' D B2 D2 U2
35316 12-ene-2017 11:27:58 00:18.767 F2 L2 U2 R2 U R2 B2 U' B2 D' U' B D L B2 F2 U2 L2 U B
35315 12-ene-2017 11:27:17 00:19.662 B2 D2 L2 B2 L2 B2 L2 D U R2 U' R D2 B D2 R' D2 R' U2 B' R
35314 12-ene-2017 11:26:37 00:16.727 D' R2 D B2 D' F2 D' B2 R2 D B2 L' U2 B' R2 F U L2 U' R F' D2
35313 12-ene-2017 11:25:52 00:21.095 U' B2 D2 U R2 B2 U2 B2 D2 U' F' D U' B R' B2 R' D U2 L' U'
35312 12-ene-2017 11:25:11 00:16.847 R2 D' R2 U L2 D2 R2 D L2 U2 L' U' F' U' L' B F2 R D' R
35311 12-ene-2017 11:24:31 00:20.454 F2 D2 L2 D F2 U2 B2 L2 U' R2 F2 L' F' D' R' L U2 R F' L' D2
35310 12-ene-2017 11:23:49 00:19.854 D R2 U R2 L2 U2 R2 F2 R2 F2 D B' D B' D2 L' F' R2 B U2 R' U'
35309 12-ene-2017 11:23:05 00:19.359 F2 L2 U' B2 F2 R2 U2 F2 U2 F2 U B' R B' R D' F U2 L' U
35308 12-ene-2017 11:22:16 00:16.072 D' R2 D L2 B2 L2 B2 D2 R2 D2 U R' F D2 U' L U2 L B' D F2 L'


----------



## pglewis (Jan 12, 2017)

Okay... so M2 is a bit more involved. For a split second there I was thinking "this is going to be a LOT easier than I thought" . OP corners is comfortable including cycle breaks and twisted corners. I don't think I'm going to absorb M2 quite so quickly. 

@muchacho: congrats on a big milestone! Next stop, sub 17! 

Good luck to all the UK folks prepping furiously for this weekend and I'm looking forward to reports from Montreal.


----------



## Shaky Hands (Jan 12, 2017)

pglewis said:


> Good luck to all the UK folks prepping furiously for this weekend



Thanks Phil. Unfortunately my practice has been interrupted by an arm injury on Tuesday night that made me need to take a trip to the emergency department yesterday. Whilst I can cube and am recovering, I'm not firing on all cylinders and may not be able to do the drive. Will have to play it by ear closer to the time. If I've recovered a bit more I'll look forward to going and catching up with @newtonbase though. How about you, @mark49152, I see you're still registered; still planning to make an appearance?


----------



## newtonbase (Jan 12, 2017)

pglewis said:


> Okay... so M2 is a bit more involved. For a split second there I was thinking "this is going to be a LOT easier than I thought" . OP corners is comfortable including cycle breaks and twisted corners. I don't think I'm going to absorb M2 quite so quickly.


M2 is ace. There's only a couple of algs plus inverses to learn and then you can start learning some easy shortcuts. @mark49152 started an advanced M2 thread which has loads of useful stuff. You do need to keep track of your pairs though,



Shaky Hands said:


> Thanks Phil. Unfortunately my practice has been interrupted by an arm injury on Tuesday night that made me need to take a trip to the emergency department yesterday. Whilst I can cube and am recovering, I'm not firing on all cylinders and may not be able to do the drive. Will have to play it by ear closer to the time. If I've recovered a bit more I'll look forward to going and catching up with @newtonbase though. How about you, @mark49152, I see you're still registered; still planning to make an appearance?


OH dear. Hope you are OK. It'll be a shame if you miss Manchester. @mark49152 will have the best reason for missing it if that's what happens.


----------



## mark49152 (Jan 12, 2017)

@Shaky Hands: sorry to hear that, hope you recover enough in time to make the journey.

I have a tentative pass to attend for BLD events only. So I'll drop by for an hour or so each day, but am on domestic duties the rest of the weekend.

@pglewis: M2 does add a little extra complication compared to OP, but it's actually still very simple once it clicks. I found it easier once I started to think of it as DB and UF swapping places when targets are even, rather than the M slice being off by 180 degrees. The centers swap too, but you don't have to care about those, and the DF and UB edges don't swap.


----------



## newtonbase (Jan 12, 2017)

@pglewis Here's Mark's guide. I can't fault the order in which the tips are given. Just learning the first one will make most of your solves easier. https://www.speedsolving.com/forum/threads/advanced-m2-guide.56076/
Looking forward to seeing you at the weekend @mark49152. I've not quite got there with 4BLD so you have a judge if you need one.


----------



## mark49152 (Jan 12, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> Looking forward to seeing you at the weekend @mark49152. I've not quite got there with 4BLD so you have a judge if you need one.


Likewise mate, and I'd very much appreciate your judging! Thanks!


----------



## Dom (Jan 12, 2017)

So, I'm getting a cubing club together for the kids at our Masjid ("mosque" in French) and I'm trying to get an easy-to-understand tutorial on what to expect at a WCA competition. Good info for competitors and their parents/spectators. 
I've seen this one, but it doesn't explain quite everything that I think they should know. Anyone know a better one?


----------



## newtonbase (Jan 12, 2017)

Dom said:


> So, I'm getting a cubing club together for the kids at our Masjid ("mosque" in French) and I'm trying to get an easy-to-understand tutorial on what to expect at a WCA competition. Good info for competitors and their parents/spectators.
> I've seen this one, but it doesn't explain quite everything that I think they should know. Anyone know a better one?


That's the only thorough one that I know of but I'd be surprised if crazybadcuber or speedcubereview hasn't done one. There's plenty of experience here to answer any specific questions. Good luck with the club.


----------



## Shaky Hands (Jan 12, 2017)

@Dom, in addition to the video you pointed towards I also looked at this series by Mitch Lane before my first comp:


----------



## Selkie (Jan 13, 2017)

Wow what a lot of catching up on the thread I had to do. You guys have been hard at the discussion in the new year and that is really encouraging. A couple of topics I will add my two cents to for what its worth.

It id going to be difficult to mention individually but congratulations to all those with PBs, the thread members seem to be making awesome progress, fantastic stuff.

Cross on the bottom:- I solved with cross or face on the top from 1981 until 2010 so it was a really new concept for me when starting CFOP. I think I originally used Badmephistos videos as I did for a lot of things and it was just practice, practice. I do remember trying to first plan two edges, then three, then four and even to this day I cannot always plan the alignment of edges to centres at the end. This is more laziness than anything. Cross optimisation is on my to do list!

Counting of Solves With New Algs:- I have fallen foul of this previously. I learned most COLL subsets and WV in the past and lost them because I did not use them enough. It would have been far better for me to do as others here have done and just not count that solve, good recommendation. I would do an average, come across a new case and just do what I was used to. This is part of the reason I have not timed a 3x3 solve since Birmingham Open and will not time one until the end of February:-

So, having learned and lost WV and COLL before and in a drive to crack that last 1/2 second to get sub 15 globally and in comp I am learning them again. More specifically I have now learned 54 Winter Variation cases. I am not timing any 3x3 solves and just doing slow exploratory solves for now. I am learning so much more edge control to try and force more WV cases and really questioning a lot of my F2L strategy, such as multi slotting or at least pair preservation.

In a week or so I will start on COLL again, hopefully a lot of the algs will come back to me quit easily and again slow solves to incorporate them. There is also another strategy to learning COLL. If for OLL parity on 4x4 you know a 1-edge flip alg and a 3-edge flip alg you can convert any OLL parity (50% of solves in theory, feels like 80% in reality!!) into a COLL case with EPLL or more change of PLL skip.

On the job front my redundancy started on 30th December I had a job interview on Wednesday (as many who are friends on FB will know) for a very exciting role. It is a company I know very well as it is an account I looked after in my last job. I think it went great and just waiting to hear back. Watch this space...

Best of luck to those in comp this weekend, especially my older UK brethen. Sorry I cannot be there but my interview was originally supposed to be for today but now I will be spending the day travelling to pick up my new VW toy - My other hobby


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## phreaker (Jan 13, 2017)

Hello again,

I've finally had some time to get back to cubing a bit... 

Made up a magnetic Gans 356v2. I really like it. Nice cube, though a BIT heavy for OH, but man... between the corner cutting and the magnets, I have to be pretty sloppy to lock it up. Not to say I haven't .

Almost completed learning full PLL, I'm missing the N perms, so I'm in too bad of shape, 1/36 solves, I have to 2xJ perms.

Set my PB overall, one handed recently... At 52.8s, look-ahead is starting to happen... I can sense it. not there on all solves, and PLL recognition times can be really bad still. (Never mind that I practice almost always OH, which limits my practice.) (ZZ + OCLL + PLL for now, I'll eventually learn COLL, as I work on it more, but PLL is basically required for any cuber who isn't doing roux.)

Starting to work on BLD, working on my memo system, and remembering the "Y-perm" for Old Pochmann corners. I use a different Y perm than the normal one because I use OH perms everywhere.  While some are the same, and some are close enough that nobody would care... Some are very, very different... and Y is one of the very different ones... (R U R' U' L2 U R U' R' U2 x U2 R U2 R U2 , I just love the feel of the end of that one, OH. I use the same one 2H, but I don't rotate the cube, I use my left hand to finish it.)


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## newtonbase (Jan 13, 2017)

I wasted half an hour reminding myself why I don't practice pyraminx. Won't be doing that again. 
2x2 next.


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## h2f (Jan 13, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> I wasted half an hour reminding myself why I don't practice pyraminx. Won't be doing that again.
> 2x2 next.



 The same me - I'm starting tomorrow with 2x2 and pyra but due to high cutoffs (6 and 8 s) I didnt practice it and spend my time doing blind, 4x4 and OH.


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## kbrune (Jan 13, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> @pglewis Here's Mark's guide. I can't fault the order in which the tips are given. Just learning the first one will make most of your solves easier. https://www.speedsolving.com/forum/threads/advanced-m2-guide.56076/



What an awesome guide for advanced M2. Wish I had looked for this before!

It never even occurred to me to swap FU BD in memo! That would save me having to think about the proper target to shoot to during execution. Smart trick.

I did understand that correctly? If you swap targets in memo for FU BD. It saves you keeping track of where to shoot? 
@newtonbase @mark49152


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## newtonbase (Jan 13, 2017)

kbrune said:


> What an awesome guide for advanced M2. Wish I had looked for this before!
> 
> It never even occurred to me to swap FU BD in memo! That would save me having to think about the proper target to shoot to during execution. Smart trick.
> 
> ...


I believe so but I don't do it that way. I think @mark49152 does.


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## pglewis (Jan 13, 2017)

Shaky Hands said:


> Unfortunately my practice has been interrupted by an arm injury on Tuesday night that made me need to take a trip to the emergency department yesterday.



Yikes, speedy recovery to you!

@newtonbase, @mark49152: Thanks, and I've bookmarked the advanced M2 info. I managed a successful edges solve sighted with the targets written down last night. A long way to go yet but I think I have the M2 mechanics down for the most part.


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## mark49152 (Jan 13, 2017)

kbrune said:


> I did understand that correctly? If you swap targets in memo for FU BD. It saves you keeping track of where to shoot?
> @newtonbase @mark49152


It's personal preference, but if you swap in memo, you have less to think about during execution. Whenever you execute an S, you always shoot to BD, regardless of whether it's an odd or even target. Likewise I, C, W. Assuming you use Speffz. 

It also helps when adding tricks or comms to solve pairs of targets. Supposing you know a comm or a trick for SL. If your memo is BQ SL, great. Now supposing you get QS LB, and you don't know how to combine Q and S, you can solve Q on its own then use your usual SL comm even though S appears on an even target.


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## kbrune (Jan 13, 2017)

pglewis said:


> Yikes, speedy recovery to you!
> 
> @newtonbase, @mark49152: Thanks, and I've bookmarked the advanced M2 info. I managed a successful edges solve sighted with the targets written down last night. A long way to go yet but I think I have the M2 mechanics down for the most part.



M2 is so much fun once you get the hang of it. The M slice targets are confusing a bit since you have to keep track of first or second letter in pair. But it becomes second nature after a while.

In a weird way. I find sighted solves more confusing now then when I have my eyes closed now. For M2 OP anyway.


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## newtonbase (Jan 13, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> It also helps when adding tricks or comms to solve pairs of targets. Supposing you know a comm or a trick for SL. If your memo is BQ SL, great. Now supposing you get QS LB, and you don't know how to combine Q and S, you can solve Q on its own then use your usual SL comm even though S appears on an even target.


I hadn't really considered that aspect of switching letters. (QS isn't a nice one. I'd do a B setup and solve RT.)


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## pglewis (Jan 13, 2017)

Picked up a few new 3x3s because I'm expanding my stickerless selection:

Thunderclap V1: I love my 2 black ones so I wanted a stickerless. Worst of the three out of the box; too loose and very unstable, lots of spring noise. Broke it down before setup and was somewhat disappointed that the construction on the piece internals seems to be lower quality than the black ones, with slight splits in places where the colors come together. Nonetheless, after some Lubicle on the core and around the springs, setup, two drops of Silk, and a little break-in I'm confident I can eventually dial it in on par with my black ones. Not the exact QiYi shades as the Valk: green is a little toward the pea-green side, the blue isn't as dark-- somewhere between Valk blue and the Cubicle's full bright blue-- and the yellow isn't fluro.

X-Man Tornado: Hey, it's workin' for Chris so I had to give it a try. Better setup out of the box than the Thunderclap but plenty of spring noise, as usual. Nothing a very basic break-down and setup couldn't fix. Deja vu, very reminiscent of my AoLong V2 stickerless (Edit: only a _lot_ lighter feeling, after I actually compared). It hasn't corner twisted on me yet but that'd be my only (small) concern, same with the AoLong. I like the feel and it's likely only going to get better with break in. Shades contrast very well and seem really close to the Valk's shades.

MF3RS: I've heard good things but it was still a little surprising to find it was easily the best feeling of the three without tinkering. A little catchy at stock tensions but I find that with most of the modern fully-squared corner designs and I haven't even done so much as put a screwdriver to it yet. Very light and hollow feeling as is the rage. I might really take to this one with a little work TBH, as I'm trending towards a light, low-force turning style. Regardless, it's hard not to like for $5. Shades are slightly lighter all around vs. Valk shades with red deviating the most and non-fluro yellow.


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## pglewis (Jan 13, 2017)

kbrune said:


> M2 is so much fun once you get the hang of it. The M slice targets are confusing a bit since you have to keep track of first or second letter in pair. But it becomes second nature after a while.



I just had this one for edges which has helped the confidence (std Speffz):

MI *AS EX Q+H VP FN H (*: ran into buffer piece, +: generic new cycle)

That one involved two cycle breaks, flopping the I and S targets in execution, and "parity" before moving to corners... and I managed it with eyes open and a cheat sheet for the remaining M-slice targets. Flopping I/C, S/W during memo makes sense but I haven't tried that route yet (nor actual memo, my "memo" has been a text editor). Just those few M slice target algs to absorb and they look intuitive enough with some thought.

I think I've nearly got it, let the real frustration begin lol.


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## newtonbase (Jan 14, 2017)

pglewis said:


> I just had this one for edges which has helped the confidence (std Speffz):
> 
> MI *AS EX Q+H VP FN H (*: ran into buffer piece, +: generic new cycle)
> 
> ...


You have pretty much every complication bar flipped edges in that solve. Well done. 
With advanced M2 and letters exchanged iin memo there are quite a few moves to be saved iin the execution but that's for another day


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## Dom (Jan 14, 2017)

Hey guys, what evidence is there that cubing has grown rapidly recently and will get huge soon? Maybe statistics from YouCubers subscribers or increased sales from online cube stores? Ernö Rubik's plan to get into speed cubing? 

Here's why I need to know: 

I'm trying to convince my local video game/comic book/anime store to start selling twisty puzzles. 

I told them that cubing is growing very fast and I predict it's about to explode to the mainstream very soon. They want proof. 
Currently, the only twisty puzzles you can buy in my state are Rubik's brand. I want to give my local store some info to buy puzzles wholesale from zcube.hk or somewhere so that they can be the first ones to carry them and will be the only ones until other places get onboard. 
Then I want to propose that they sponsor cube comps in the future. It would make it cheap to get a comp organized and it would benefit them with advertisement. 

Ideas? Or does this need its own thread?


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## muchacho (Jan 14, 2017)

The number or comps organized by year?
2016: 679 
2015: 572
2014: 481
2013: 359
2012: 303

Maybe the number of competitors by year look more impressive.


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## One Wheel (Jan 14, 2017)

Number of competitors by year from the WCA site:
year competitors (world) competitors (us)
1982 19 1
2003 8 4
2004 123 42
2005 305 138
2006 589 230
2007 1217 429
2008 2376 712
2009 4524 651
2010 5825 1002
2011 6731 1067
2012 7183 1210
2013 9619 1528
2014 13544 2154
2015 18060 3630
2016 25789 5201

I started out with the world, and realized the US is what matters in this case anyway, and it was taking a while to scroll through.

Edit: they probably wouldn't want to share all their data, but I'm sure TheCubicle has sales data for the last few years. Now that cubes4speed is out of business they might be willing to share their data.

Edit 2: finished the chart.


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## mafergut (Jan 14, 2017)

Interesting explosion in number of competitors. At that rate cubing might end up being mainstream in maybe 10-20 years but, for now, it is just "growing steadily" if you compare it with, let's say, the number of basketball players or something really mainstream like that or, if we want to compare it with something a bit closer, ... maybe chess? I would like it to become that popular, though.

By the way, I still find the WuShuang a bit too tiny for my hands. I have problems turning the inner layers because they are so narrow. It is a very nice cube, stable and feels so great to turn but this size problem is making me return to my Yuxin 5x5.

Regarding the WuQue I've had like 3-4 pops, all of them during the U2 of OLL parity alg. Might need to tighten it a bit but it takes already a bit of effort to turn so I would not want that to get worse. I got several nice sub 1:05.xx times with it but no sub 1:00 and not PB single yet.


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## Shaky Hands (Jan 14, 2017)

Good competition in the UK with 16 PB's between @newtonbase, @mark49152 and myself at the end of day 1. Looking forward to day 2 but am enjoying a refreshing pint in the meantime.


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## One Wheel (Jan 14, 2017)

mafergut said:


> Interesting explosion in number of competitors. At that rate cubing might end up being mainstream in maybe 10-20 years but, for now, it is just "growing steadily" if you compare it with, let's say, the number of basketball players or something really mainstream like that or, if we want to compare it with something a bit closer, ... maybe chess? I would like it to become that popular, though.



I don't know. Aside from a decline in growth rate from 2007-2010 it looks to me like a basically logarithmic curve. Of course part of the appeal is rarity, so if cubing ever does "become mainstream" it will doubtless decline in popularity. The current growth does seem more stable than the fad in the early 80s, but I wouldn't be surprised if it is a roughly cyclical thing.


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## Dom (Jan 14, 2017)

@muchacho @One Wheel 
That's exactly what I'm looking for. Both comps AND competitors i think will show that it has been growing. 
@mafergut 
I think with the above steady growth data combined with Ernö Rubik's plan to get involved in speed cubing, I can make a pretty good assumption that cubing will grow very quickly very soon. 
Thanks to all.


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## pglewis (Jan 14, 2017)

Shaky Hands said:


> Good competition in the UK with 16 PB's between @newtonbase, @mark49152 and myself at the end of day 1. Looking forward to day 2 but am enjoying a refreshing pint in the meantime.



Just took at peek at Mark's 4-bld time... just fantastic, wow.


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## One Wheel (Jan 14, 2017)

Dom said:


> @muchacho @One Wheel
> That's exactly what I'm looking for. Both comps AND competitors i think will show that it has been growing.
> @mafergut
> I think with the above steady growth data combined with Ernö Rubik's plan to get involved in speed cubing, I can make a pretty good assumption that cubing will grow very quickly very soon.
> Thanks to all.



The proliferation of cube models is another data point. As far as stores carrying cubes, you could suggest that they get a selection of budget cubes, and only put a few out with a sign telling people that they can ask about other models in back to save shelf space. If they sell a lot and/or get a lot of inquiries they'll likely be interested in carrying s larger selection.


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## mark49152 (Jan 15, 2017)

pglewis said:


> Just took at peek at Mark's 4-bld time... just fantastic, wow.


LOL, thanks! 

Nice haul of PBs for the oldies. Great to see @Shaky Hands get that 4x4 average, and I had to scroll down quite a long way to find something he didn't get a PB in . Here's to more on day two.

I was delighted to get a sub-6 official 4BLD result. That's one of my 2017 goals met before we're even half way through January


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## Selkie (Jan 15, 2017)

@Shaky Hands, @mark49152 , @newtonbase - Awesome results guys. I've already Fb messaged Andy to congratulate him on the 4x4 average earlier when I spotted it. It seems commonplace for the wrinklies to make average cut by <1 second now. I have to confess I did not see @mark49152 4BLD time till now and am in awe of the time and the fact that an old timer is competing in time nationally, age withstanding. @newtonbase , a great consistent Pyra average there. Lots and lots of PBs and will be watching tomorrows results with great interest.

Just placed a couple of orders, one at Marty's store and one with Cubicle to include the following:-

Qiyi Wuji 7x7 Stickerless
Qiyi X-Man Design Tornado Stickerless (Another main duplicate to try a couple of mods on)
MoYu WeiShi 6x6 Stickerless
Qiyi X-Man Bell Magnetic Pyraminx
Cubicle Qiyi Valk-3 M

Though I cannot wait to try the Wuji, for me the Valk M is my most eagerly awaited delivery!


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## pglewis (Jan 15, 2017)

I've nearly landed a 3-bld success today, I should be timing just to see how ridiculously long it takes just in case I stumble into one. I missed one with forgotten parity, another off by a pair of edges, and a third that would have been good but I blanked out on the last three corners. I opted to stop and check so I'd at least know if I was good to that point and, yup (bicycle, forgot the next was BICYCLE!). It has been at the expense of all my other practice list items but it was hard not to push ahead since I've had momentum. 

No real sticking points so far, besides a glacial-paced memo. All my common issues are n00b related-- tracking solved/unsolved pieces, remembering where the current cycle started, knowing when I'm actually done, words for letter pairs-- all remedied with practice. I'm a bit shocked, I'd braced myself for it to possibly take weeks or months to get to this point.


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## newtonbase (Jan 15, 2017)

Day 1 of Manchester was mixed but with a decent haul of PBs. 
Missed sub 2mins in 4x4 as I tried a new variant in Hoya that I'd told myself to save for 5x5. 
Missed my OH PB by 0.06s in 1 solve then equalled PB in the next solve. A rage quit in the last solve after yet another PLL error probably cost me a quicker average.. 
Improved in skewb having relearned it at the comp. My only timed solves are all official. 
I'd entered 6x6 in error but @shakyhands lent me his Yuxin so I tried to beat the 10min hard cut. Decided to do Hoya but started with yellow and white centres for some reason so did full reduction. I hit OLL sub 9 mins but got a pop during parity that I couldn't fix and had to give the puzzle back in bits. Sorry Andy. 
Well done to @mark49152 on his 4BLD silver and to @shakyhands on multiple PBs including a 4x4 average with a great reaction on solve 1.
Looking forward to day 2.


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## Jason Green (Jan 15, 2017)

@Selkie I'll be anxious to see what you think of the Valk M, it's just what to me!


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## h2f (Jan 15, 2017)

@mark49152 @newtonbase @Shaky Hands, congrats new pbs! And Mark - your 4bld is very impressive to me.

I have mixed feelings about yesterday's comp. First comp in the town where I grown up and I work. In 2x2 just bad solves but stopped to practice. Pb in pyra, Pb in OH but couldnt cross cutoffs. (I knew in pyra it would be hard but in OH was very close). In 3bld 3dnfs which happen to me. First solve was 1:06 [~22] and I'm happy with it though I didnt undo setup before last 2 3cycles and parity. In the second I didnt push and finished with 2 flipped edges (memo mistake). Third was a mess - scramble was bad and I didnt notice parity till corners. In 3bld my feelings is that sometimes it jus happens to me. I'm disappointed though I know there's constatnly sub1 on the horizon. Next comp in March. 

In 3x3 new Pb - it would be better but I messed in last 2 solves. And in 4x4 I've advanced to 2nd round (first time) but next they cancelled the round due to schedule.


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## mark49152 (Jan 15, 2017)

Selkie said:


> I have to confess I did not see @mark49152 4BLD time till now and am in awe of the time and the fact that an old timer is competing in time nationally, age withstanding.


I just need to shave off another 2 minutes and I'll be up there with Callum and Matt . 

Quick report: first attempt started well but on centres memo I got completely lost. After 5 mins I still couldn't get the targets to add up. It was frustrating me so I decided to stop memo and execute anyway, to help me warm up and calm down even though I knew it would be DNF. Second attempt success. Third attempt was also going well, could even have been a little faster, but while executing centres I realised I hit the same target twice. Executed to the end in the hope I'd recall my mistake and could go back and fix it, but nope, and there were other mistakes anyway. Scrambles were good and I felt on form so it was a good day. Many thanks @newtonbase for judging.

Cheers to all, and good luck to everyone competing today.

@pglewis: Yes it's just practice and it's a great feeling when you get that first success. I remember pulling up the blindfold and thinking "no way!" 

@h2f: Bad luck on the DNFs, but your times are great. Fast DNF is better than slow success


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## muchacho (Jan 15, 2017)

Congrats all!

PB on OH, Ao5: 25.361
I'm improving but only because of F2B, I have not learned more CMLL algs. Maybe that will be the last PB in many weeks, I've decided I'll try CP with last slot, I think I can "master" it sooner and will be less boring than learning algs (and easier to retain if I practice less OH in the future), and maybe I can get good enough times with it.



Spoiler



3282 15-ene-2017 11:11:14 00:25.920 F2 R2 U' R2 F2 D' B2 D' U' L2 B2 L B2 D L2 B' D2 F U' R' U2
3281 15-ene-2017 11:10:05 00:31.532 L2 D' F2 D2 F2 R2 D U2 R2 F2 U B' L U F2 R' U2 B L B R2 D2
3280 15-ene-2017 11:09:14 00:23.086 F2 R2 D' R2 F2 D2 L2 F2 U B2 U2 B L B' F' R' F' D2 U' L B'
3279 15-ene-2017 11:08:28 00:22.422 L2 B2 D2 F2 L2 D' B2 L2 B2 U' F2 L U F R F2 R2 L' D2 L2 F' U2
3278 15-ene-2017 11:07:41 00:27.077 F2 R2 U' L2 U' B2 U R2 L2 F2 U B D B2 L U' F' D' L' B L2 D



@h2f that's a 1 year delay 4x4BLD?


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## h2f (Jan 15, 2017)

muchacho said:


> @h2f that's a 1 year delay 4x4BLD?



Yes. I've failed becasue during November I missed one word for edges. I wasnt sure if there' was that word and couldnt figure out where. It made me 3 edges off. I'm quite glad with it because I thought my edges memo in the middle is wrong - in fact whole memo was correct. I'll redo the scramble and the solution in the evening today. Of course without memo.


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## mafergut (Jan 15, 2017)

Very nice comp results everybody!!! You are already veterans in competition with several experiencies. Does that reduce the comp nerves? Still not planning to attend one this year myself


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## h2f (Jan 15, 2017)

mafergut said:


> You are already veterans in competition with several experiencies. Does that reduce the comp nerves? Still not planning to attend one this year myself



It pays off a lot even if one DNFs 3 times in 3bld.  I'm planning to be at 10 competitions this year and it looks like 9 are on the horizion: 6 as GLS (Gdańsk's League of Speedcubing), Polish Nationals or Polish Open, FMC Europe. Possible comps: Kaliska and Gniezno. So it looks like busy year and many opportunities to get a good result in 3bld.


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## mark49152 (Jan 15, 2017)

h2f said:


> It pays off a lot even if one DNFs 3 times in 3bld.


Well, my fortunes were the opposite today. Three DNFs, and they were slow, all 1:30-40 even without long pauses. I just was not on form at all! Next time


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## mafergut (Jan 15, 2017)

I just watched a recent unboxing from @SpeedCubeReview with a "new WuQue" and he says it's much better than the other one he had. Just watching the video you can see that it's much faster than the one I have. Itt's stickerless, as mine, but with blue internals (mine has white internals). It doesn't look to come much looser than mine out of the box. I'm starting to think that I got one of the bad ones but, to be honest, I don't want to buy another one explicitly to SpeedCubeShop to make sure I get one of those.


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## newtonbase (Jan 15, 2017)

Just home from day 2 of Manchester. This morning was poor with bad results in Clock (lack of practice), 5x5 (stupid mistakes) and 3x3 (dunno, just rubbish). Fortunately my brain kicked in just before 3BLD and I got 2:45, DNF (2:39 with a twisted corner) and 2:39. Not that fast but PBs and just a twisted corner away from the only average in the competition. Moved up one place in the rankings which cancels out the place I didn't know I'd dropped when a sneaky Brit competed in the USA last month. 
Overall it was a well organised and enjoyable comp. Well done again to @mark49152 on his 4BLD and to @shakyhands on his plethora of PBs (13/18) and a place in the Clock final,and thanks for the generous gift.


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## pglewis (Jan 15, 2017)

h2f said:


> In 3x3 new Pb - it would be better but I messed in last 2 solves.



Dang that counting 21 but great job on the sub 19 average nonetheless.



mafergut said:


> Very nice comp results everybody!!! You are already veterans in competition with several experiencies. Does that reduce the comp nerves? Still not planning to attend one this year myself



What's keeping you from going to a comp? We need you representing the grey-hairs!



newtonbase said:


> Fortunately my brain kicked in just before 3BLD and I got 2:45, DNF (2:39 with a twisted corner) and 2:39. Not that fast but PBs and just a twisted corner away from the only average in the competition.



Nearly a major coup there. Congrats also on a half-dozen PBs, plus @Shaky Hands showing the injury didn't seem to affect his comp results.



mark49152 said:


> @pglewis: Yes it's just practice and it's a great feeling when you get that first success. I remember pulling up the blindfold and thinking "no way!"



Got that first one, 13:40, probably about ten mins of which was memo (I had splits setup in csTimer but forgot). Memo will improve with confidence and especially once I get some standard words for letter pairs... a lot of time burned coming up with words on the fly that wouldn't end up too ambiguous. My excitement was tempered a little bit by expectation; I'd already done it with training wheels on to make sure there weren't any lingering issues with mechanics/execution and I'd already had some near misses on full blind attempts. Still, it was worth a vigorous fist pump and a 'yes!' when I saw it. Wasn't exactly sure when I'd land that first one, only being able to make a few attempts in an hour. First one's the hardest.


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## Dom (Jan 15, 2017)

mafergut said:


> I just watched a recent unboxing from @SpeedCubeReview with a "new WuQue" and he says it's much better than the other one he had. Just watching the video you can see that it's much faster than the one I have. Itt's stickerless, as mine, but with blue internals (mine has white internals). It doesn't look to come much looser than mine out of the box. I'm starting to think that I got one of the bad ones but, to be honest, I don't want to buy another one explicitly to SpeedCubeShop to make sure I get one of those.


The only way you can tell if you got a bad batch is to take it apart and inspect all the pieces. But I'm pretty sure that since he got his directly from QiYi as soon as it was released that it probably has mold defects. 
However, I do believe that the blue plastic is maybe softer than the white and thats the main reason it's faster. 
I got mine from Speedcubeshop and I got yellow internals. It's awesome!


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## muchacho (Jan 15, 2017)

Soon I'll be the only old one that can't do BLD.


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## Logiqx (Jan 15, 2017)

@Shaky Hands, @mark49152 , @newtonbase - good work guys!

I've had a busy weekend so I've only been able to check your results in the evenings.

Not much news from this end but I'm still plugging away at Skewb... Ao12 10.24, Ao50 12.22


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## mark49152 (Jan 15, 2017)

Great to catch up with @newtonbase and @Shaky Hands again this weekend. Congrats to all who competed and got what they wanted; commiserations to anyone disappointed.

I watched my 3BLD videos back, and my memo was consistently 43-44 seconds. Very disappointing given that I'm 25-30 at home and that I've put a lot of work into pushing memo. So memo will continue to be my focus for practice, and I might have to change how I train it. I won't be learning any new comms or execution tricks until I get my memo down to consistently sub-20 at home. 

Here's my 4BLD...


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## Shaky Hands (Jan 15, 2017)

mafergut said:


> Very nice comp results everybody!!! You are already veterans in competition with several experiencies. Does that reduce the comp nerves? Still not planning to attend one this year myself



More experience probably leads to less nerves. I'm more nervous in the events I care about and have a chance of doing well at. There's several events I enter just because I can solve them but am never going to be competitive at.



newtonbase said:


> Just home from day 2 of Manchester. This morning was poor with bad results in Clock (lack of practice), 5x5 (stupid mistakes) and 3x3 (dunno, just rubbish). Fortunately my brain kicked in just before 3BLD and I got 2:45, DNF (2:39 with a twisted corner) and 2:39. Not that fast but PBs and just a twisted corner away from the only average in the competition. Moved up one place in the rankings which cancels out the place I didn't know I'd dropped when a sneaky Brit competed in the USA last month.
> Overall it was a well organised and enjoyable comp. Well done again to @mark49152 on his 4BLD and to @shakyhands on his plethora of PBs (13/18) and a place in the Clock final,and thanks for the generous gift.



You did great with 3BLD Mark with 2 PB-level solves and, as you say, nearly a mean too. You're welcome to the gift. It was best going to someone that would make use of it.



pglewis said:


> Nearly a major coup there. Congrats also on a half-dozen PBs, plus @Shaky Hands showing the injury didn't seem to affect his comp results.
> st.



Arm injury was fine for the most part, other than during 5x5 where it freaked out on me. More below.



Logiqx said:


> @Shaky Hands, @mark49152 , @newtonbase - good work guys!



Cheers Mike.

...

So then, the usual post-comp report.

*Saturday*

2x2 - I didn't have the time to re-learn Ortega so just solved using LBL and managed PB single and average regardless, not that my times are in any way impressive. Rob Yau was judging one of my solves and pointed out a way I could have shaved a load of time off that particular solve. 2x2 is far from a learning priority for me, but it can be fascinating watch people that are fast at it.
Pyraminx - My 2nd comp entering this. Another PB single and average combo, despite only relearning how to solve this on the day of the comp after not solving it at all since the Birmingham comp.
4x4 - With most of my practice having been on 5x5 and 6x6, I didn't start putting in any practice time on 4x4 until a couple of nights before the comp. I felt I had about a 50% chance of recording an average for this and was pleasantly surprised to beat the 1:30 cut with a 1:29:56 solve in the first scramble. I did a trademark jump out of the seat admittedly unable to contain my excitement (a shame @bubbagrub wasn't there to chuckle at me although it wasn't as loud as when I got the PB single on 3x3 at Guildford last year.) A couple of solves later I bettered this with a 1:24.45 (somehow just at the time that the Sun started blazing in my eyes) and finished it off with a 5th solve with my new official PB single of 1:21.18. Very happy to have got an average here on my 10th competition attempting to do so.
3x3 OH - Probably used the table more in this comp than in previous ones. I can do very few Last Layer algs with OH so as none of them came up for me it was a case of 5 solves using 4LLL. No PB's here for me.
Skewb - First comp attempt. Surprised myself to start off with two 15.x solves, so an easy PB single and average combo for me here. Just using the very basic method. I have the stickerless magnetic Moyu but used a stickered non-magnetic Moyu as I just prefer the way it turns at the moment.
6x6 - This was an event that I considered a dead-certainty PB single for me if I could just avoid getting a pop. So what happened? I got a pop! But it was fixable and I got a PB anyway, with an improvement of 50 seconds to 5:49.15. Without the pop, I'd have been about 20-25 seconds faster. Happy with this and I think reaching the average cut of 5m is achievable for me in 2017.
7x7 - I haven't put as much practice into this as I did for 5x5 and 6x6 but still managed a 55 second improvement, down to 8:17.31. I could have done better here as there were a couple of times I wasted moves to give myself a case that I was more confident with, just to prevent messing up work I'd already done. Happy anyway.

*Sunday*

Clock round 1 - PB average of 18.04. Consistency worked the magic for me.
5x5 - Shortly before this round I was remarking that solving Clock seems to use different muscles to solving cubes and indeed, my arm injury was feeling it. I went on to have a dismal performance in 5x5, with me literally exclaiming out loud in pain during my first solve's last layer and needing to walk it off. Took a break, came back for the second solve. The solve wasn't going well and I quit it when I realised I wasn't going to get a PB single. Disappointing really as I've done stacks of 5x5 practice lately and even got a sub-cut time earlier in the day. Just not meant to be this comp.
3x3 - PB average improved by about 1 second to 25.88 (27.07, 27.19, 23.37, 23.06, 28.74.) Still a bit above my averages at home but decent enough. I didn't make it through to round 2, although I have in some past comps with worse averages.
3x3 BLD - I forced myself to get a success before bed on the Saturday night but haven't been putting any regular BLD practice in. I got some Edge-only and Corners-only successes on the day of the event, but not in the comp itself. 1st solve seemed an easy scramble for my orientation (F: Green; U: Yellow.) Will be interested to see if @mark49152 concurs when the scramble is published. 2nd solve I had to rush the memo to try to get done within the time remaining. No successes. Another time.
Clock Final - I hadn't even realised there was more than 1 round of Clock, so was happy to get into my first ever competition Final. I improved my PB single to 15.14 in the first solve but messing up the 3rd and 5th solves cost me the chance to improve my average from round 1. I had several 12.x solves when practicing for the Final, so I think I have the potential to continue to improve on my Clock results in the future.

All in all, a great comp. Lots of fun. Great to see @newtonbase and @mark49152 and hopefully I'll make it to the next UK comp as well (registered already but trying to get out of work for the weekend.)


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## pglewis (Jan 15, 2017)

Shaky Hands said:


> 1st solve seemed an easy scramble for my orientation (F: Green; U: Yellow.)



As an aside, looks like I chose the same orientation you and @mark49152 use. The only "logic" behind it for me was that I solve white first sighted and green in front is just a z2 away from WCA scramble. Great comp report.


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## mark49152 (Jan 16, 2017)

pglewis said:


> As an aside, looks like I chose the same orientation you and @mark49152 use. The only "logic" behind it for me was that I solve white first sighted and green in front is just a z2 away from WCA scramble. Great comp report.


Same logic for me, except it dates back to before 3BLD. When I was learning CFOP, I couldn't remember my side colours using the usual rules of thumb like X is right of Y. Instead, I chose a front colour, green. Orange is on the right side, blue on the back, etc. To this day, if I'm doing F2L and the blue face is towards me, mentally I'm looking at the "back" of the cube. It would have been difficult for me to choose a different orientation for 3BLD!


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## newtonbase (Jan 16, 2017)

I chose my orientation while watching Noah's tutorial. He'd copied his orientation from Zane but I didn't like that so when he mentioned WCA orientation i went with it. I really should be dual colour neutral in CFOP because of it but haven't tried.


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## h2f (Jan 16, 2017)

I tried few orientations and I choosed the one I liked the most.


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## JohnnyReggae (Jan 16, 2017)

Some more OH practice has yielded PB's all around 

Single = 23.69
mo3 = 30.18
ao5 = 32.98
ao12 = 36.44
ao100 = 39.92


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## pipkiksass (Jan 16, 2017)

Howdy folks, long time no post. Been keeping an eye on proceedings, excellent job at Manchester to all UK oldies!

I've not been timing pretty much anything, although I did have a new OLL which I successfully recognised in a sub-1:20 4x4 solve the other day. I'm successfully resisting the timer while I try to absorb my remaining OLLs, which is going... OK I guess.

I never cease to be amazed by 4BLD and, of course, @mark49152's trademarked cube-tap execution tic. Love it. If I ever start BLD, I might deliberately start doing it just so I'm "down with the kids".

@Selkie - decided to take the plunge and get a Valk M then, eh? @Jason Green - how's yours treating you? My main source of lock-ups is, funnily enough, PLLs that require cube rotations, such as A perms. If the M helps with these, it would be a god-send. Other than that, I find it hard to justify the money... I'd rather buy a new 4x4 and 6x6. Maybe.


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## mark49152 (Jan 16, 2017)

pipkiksass said:


> I never cease to be amazed by 4BLD and, of course, @mark49152's trademarked cube-tap execution tic. Love it. If I ever start BLD, I might deliberately start doing it just so I'm "down with the kids".


LOL, very good. My thinking is, give it a shake, hit it or bash it on the table every so often to show it who's boss and get the thing to cooperate. It's working for me at the moment, so hey


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## mark49152 (Jan 16, 2017)

h2f said:


> Yes. I've failed becasue during November I missed one word for edges. I wasnt sure if there' was that word and couldnt figure out where. It made me 3 edges off. I'm quite glad with it because I thought my edges memo in the middle is wrong - in fact whole memo was correct. I'll redo the scramble and the solution in the evening today. Of course without memo.


I missed this before. I wish I could understand Polish! Awesome anyway to get that close. Are you doing another one this year? Is that what you're memoing at the start, or was that last year?


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## h2f (Jan 16, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> I missed this before. I wish I could understand Polish! Awesome anyway to get that close. Are you doing another one this year? Is that what you're memoing at the start, or was that last year?



Sorry, I stopped doing translations - no time. It was last year's memo. I think, I'll do it again, but maybe I gave a half of year for it. In fact it's not hard and I think you can do it with ease.


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## mark49152 (Jan 16, 2017)

Triple post! For fun, I compared my official PB in each event with PB average at home, to see which events I should improve on in comp. Here's the list, in order of decreasing gap.

3BLD: 20% slower than home (comparing official single to PB normalised ao12 at home).
5BLD: 19% slower (comparing singles).
4BLD: 14% slower (singles).
3x3: 13% slower (official average compared to ao50 at home, although that ao50 is 1.5 years old and I'm at least a second slower now, so in truth more like 5-6% slower).
5x5: 5% slower (compared to home ao12)
2x2: 4% slower (home ao100)
4x4: 1% faster (home ao50)
6x6: 9% faster (official single compared to home ao12)

Bear in mind I practise 3BLD most and 6x6 least. I can think of several ways to explain the patterns there...


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## JohnnyReggae (Jan 16, 2017)

Just had another LL skip, 2nd ever .... although it should have been much faster in the end, I still ended up with a 12.45 ...

D B' D2 R2 F U2 F L2 D2 B' D2 R2 D L F U' R2 F' D2 R B'

z2 // inspection
B F2 L D // cross 4
U' R' U R U2 y R U R' // 1st 12
U' L U' L' R' U' R // 2nd 19
U2 L U2' L' U' L U L' // 3rd 27
U' L' U2 L U2 L' U L U // 4th LL-skip 36

// = 12.45 @ 2.89tps


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## JohnnyReggae (Jan 16, 2017)

JohnnyReggae said:


> Just had another LL skip, 2nd ever .... although it should have been much faster in the end, I still ended up with a 12.45 ...
> 
> D B' D2 R2 F U2 F L2 D2 B' D2 R2 D L F U' R2 F' D2 R B'
> 
> ...



As a comparison solve ... I got this 12.96 solve with an OLL skip with much higher TPS ....
U2 L2 B L2 B2 D2 R2 F' R2 U' L R2 D2 L R B D F'

z2 // inspection
B D' F B2 D' // cross 5
R U' R' U R' U' R // 1st 12
U2 y L U2 L' U L U' L' // 2nd 20
U R' U R U2 y' L U L' // 3rd 28
U' R U' R' U y' R' U R // 4th oll-skip 36
U' R' U' F' R U R' U' R' F R2 U' R' U' R U R' U R U' // pll F-Perm 56

// = 12.96 @ 4.32tps


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## Lid (Jan 16, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> Here's my 4BLD...


Almost as fast as Mats B.!

new Square-1 single PB today, 0.02 improvement ....
(-2, 0) / (-3, 3) / (5, -4) / (1, -2) / (3, 0) / (-3, 0) / (2, 0) / (3, 0) / (-5, -3) / (-1, 0) / (6, 0) / 
Solve:
0,-3/0,1/-1,0/-3,0 || CS
2,3/ || OBL
-1,-3/3,-3/0,3/-3,0/3,0/-3,0/ || CP
-2,3/3,0/-1,-1/-2,1/-1,3 || EP
Time: 9.653


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## chtiger (Jan 16, 2017)

Great to see everyone's comp results. Extra congrats to @mark49152 for top 100 (86th) in the world in 4BLD. 

Gonna do a late goals list for 2017.
At home:
Try to keep up and be more active with this thread, starting today.
5BLD success (going to make my first attempt in the next few days)
3BLD single faster than Kaijun Lin's official 4BLD single
give 4x4 another try
4x4 single faster than Kaijun Lin's official 4BLD single
finish 3x3 OLL algs
learn skewb
continue glacial-speed improvement of 3x3 (I'll join the sub-20 crowd in about 5 more years)

official comp goals: (none of these are lofty, first 2 are musts)
4BLD success
sub 11 clock avg
sub 2:30 3BLD
3x3 PB single or avg
sub 7 2x2 avg
do a new event


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## Shaky Hands (Jan 16, 2017)

Pretty happy with today's 7x7 Ao5 of 8:00.38. Good for me at any rate.

8:07.79, (8:27.89,) 7:30.85, (7:20.55,) 8:22.49

Third and fourth solves are both all-time PB singles. If I can shave another minute I may be able to record a comp average.

I've joined @Selkie in ordering the Qiyi 7x7 from Marty's store. Looking forward to that arriving.


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## mafergut (Jan 16, 2017)

Another couple of sub 1:05.xx singles at 4x4 but no sub 1 minute  One of them had PLL parity. Also another solve that was going so well and I spoiled in the end with a mistake in OLL and still ending in a 1:07.xx. I'll keep trying... 

Regarding the WuJi I'll keep an eye on its price but it wouldn't hurt me to actually solve my AoFu GT, or would it? Like trying to actually get below 10 minutes  My 6x6 and 7x7 times are disproportionately slow compared with 2x2 to 5x5, sign that I almost never practise. Haven't even solved the WuHua once since I got it last week.


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## newtonbase (Jan 16, 2017)

I've watched the video of my 3BLD PB from Manchester and there was a pause of over 20s while I recalled my first word {DQ - DEATH}. Didn't realise it was that bad. The memo was 1:05.
I left the camera running after the solve so the file is so big I'm having trouble getting it on YouTube.


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## mafergut (Jan 16, 2017)

Sorry to bother you again guys...  Another couple of close calls. One 1:04.xx and new PB single... 1:01.22... still not sub 1min. How close can I still get without actually getting sub 1? Maybe next PB will be 1:00.01


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## phreaker (Jan 16, 2017)

Made a Valk M, but used some strange magnets, ring magnets that work out to be ~N44 magnets compared to normal 4x2mms, attached using blu tack. (Amazing stuff!)

Love it... great cube. The smooth feel and that click is amazing. Setting some really nice times with it... no PB yet... but I fully expect that's a matter of not getting a skip more than the cube... the cube is great, so far.


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## Dom (Jan 16, 2017)

phreaker said:


> Made a Valk M, but used some strange magnets, ring magnets that work out to be ~N44 magnets compared to normal 4x2mms, attached using blu tack. (Amazing stuff!)
> 
> Love it... great cube. The smooth feel and that click is amazing. Setting some really nice times with it... no PB yet... but I fully expect that's a matter of not getting a skip more than the cube... the cube is great, so far.


Pictures! And information on where we can get some of those magnets!


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## mark49152 (Jan 16, 2017)

Lid said:


> Almost as fast as Mats B.!


Yay, second now in the wrinkly rankings! 



chtiger said:


> Extra congrats to @mark49152 for top 100 (86th) in the world in 4BLD.


Cheers! I'm amazed. How can there not be more than 84 young'uns (and Mats) faster than me?



newtonbase said:


> I've watched the video of my 3BLD PB from Manchester and there was a pause of over 20s while I recalled my first word {DQ - DEATH}. Didn't realise it was that bad. The memo was 1:05.
> I left the camera running after the solve so the file is so big I'm having trouble getting it on YouTube.


Windows Movie Maker. Free and fun! What's your channel? Not sure I've seen it.


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## phreaker (Jan 16, 2017)

Dom said:


> Pictures! And information on where we can get some of those magnets!


Details:

Ring magnets: N50 strength, 5mm outer diameter, 1.5mm inner diameter, 1.5mm height. I've seen various calculations for how these differ from normal 4x2s. (4mm diameter, 2mm height) I bought mine off ebay, from a chinese seller. I'd written them off as gone, and then they arrived. 

If you see any video on magnetizing "The Valk" the magnet positions are 100% standard, I took them from DMCubing's videos. There's actually very little option on how to do it due to the shape of the cube. The 5mm magnet size has no impact on positioning really, except to really force the position in the edge piece even more than normal. (There isn't much space to locate the magnet, by the end, I probably could have placed them totally by sight.)

My guess is that my "sweet spot" for the magnets is a bit larger than normal due to the magnets used. Also I don't find it as hard to move as my N50 4mmx2mm based Gans 356v2. If people are interested, I can see about pulling apart an edge + corner... but I hate the thought of pulling the corners apart, those little tabs are fragile  For edges, it isn't a real issue... so I might just do an edge. 

Blu Tack made positioning the magnets MUCH easier, in that if I made a mistake, I could just undo it... with super glue, I probably would have lost 2-3 pieces, at least. I'd recommend it to anyone magnetizing a cube for the first time!

(edited to include ebay reference)


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## pglewis (Jan 17, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> I've watched the video of my 3BLD PB from Manchester and there was a pause of over 20s while I recalled my first word...



I've run across this too much in memo already so time to try to nip it in the bud. I'm just tracking two short linear "stories", one for corners and one for edges. If I view it like any linked list it's a matter of keeping a handle to the head node, so I'm trying to visualize an "opening scene" to each story, maybe with a dramatic fade/pan. If I haven't lost the head node the rest usually does its business.


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## mark49152 (Jan 17, 2017)

pglewis said:


> I've run across this too much in memo already so time to try to nip it in the bud. I'm just tracking two short linear "stories", one for corners and one for edges. If I view it like any linked list it's a matter of keeping a handle to the head node, so I'm trying to visualize an "opening scene" to each story, maybe with a dramatic fade/pan. If I haven't lost the head node the rest usually does its business.


Yeah that's a good approach. Noah calls it a keystone.


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## newtonbase (Jan 17, 2017)

pglewis said:


> I've run across this too much in memo already so time to try to nip it in the bud. I'm just tracking two short linear "stories", one for corners and one for edges. If I view it like any linked list it's a matter of keeping a handle to the head node, so I'm trying to visualize an "opening scene" to each story, maybe with a dramatic fade/pan. If I haven't lost the head node the rest usually does its business.


When using rooms I would usually put the first part of the image on the door and if not then I focus on the first word which I thought I'd done here. I knew the rest of the image but blanked the first one. I was wrong when I said it was DEATH. It was JACK (JK) who S**T (XT) on DEATH (DQ) in front of WONDER WOMAN (W) who was sat on a LOG (LG) - I think. 
Windows Movie Maker is doing the job @mark49152. I just need a little free time to finish it off.


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## Shaky Hands (Jan 17, 2017)

Okay I'm looking back at the published scramble for my first 3BLD DNF from Sunday:

R2 U2 B2 F2 U' L2 F2 R2 F' R D' B2 R F L B' D' U2 B2 Rw2

Solving with my usual F:Green and U:Yellow, I can recall my memo as:

CT OU JQ SL R-
(Chris Tarrant was studying at the Open University, writing a JQuery about Sierra Leone using the variable "R")

PG WV BI SN
(Parental Guidance prevents me learning Winter Variation, so I'll ride a BIcycle into the SuN.)

Now something seems to not be correct here as I have an odd number of edge targets and an even number of corner targets. Not sure what I did in the actual solve (can't even remember if I attempted to execute Parity or not) but I certainly made at least a couple of execution errors.

When I attempt to execute this sighted without applying Parity it solves correctly (basic OP for edges and corners):

y2 // inspection

//edges
R U R' F' R U R' U' R' F R2 U' R' U' // C
L R U R' U' R' F R2 U' R' U' R U R' F' L' // T
D' Lw' R U R' F' R U R' U' R' F R2 U' R' U' Lw D // O
Lw2 y' R' U L' U2 R U' R' U2 R L U' y Lw2' // U
Dw2' L R U R' U' R' F R2 U' R' U' R U R' F' L' Dw2 // J
Lw R U R' F' R U R' U' R' F R2 U' R' U' Lw' // Q
Lw y' R' U L' U2 R U' R' U2 R L U' y Lw' // S
L' R U R' U' R' F R2 U' R' U' R U R' F' L // L
Dw2 L' R U R' U' R' F R2 U' R' U' R U R' F' L Dw2' // R 

//corners
R U' R' U' R U R' F' R U R' U' R' F R // P
F2 R' R U' R' U' R U R' F' R U R' U' R' F R R F2' // G
R2 F R U' R' U' R U R' F' R U R' U' R' F R F' R2 // W
F' R' R U' R' U' R U R' F' R U R' U' R' F R R F // V
R D' R U' R' U' R U R' F' R U R' U' R' F R D R' // B
F' D R U' R' U' R U R' F' R U R' U' R' F R D' F // I
D' R R U' R' U' R U R' F' R U R' U' R' F R R' D // S
R2 R U' R' U' R U R' F' R U R' U' R' F R R2' // N

I'm confused. What have I done wrong here? I think I've been a plonker and there's something fundamental I'm misunderstanding about BLD. Cheers.


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## newtonbase (Jan 17, 2017)

Shaky Hands said:


> Okay I'm looking back at the published scramble for my first 3BLD DNF from Sunday:
> 
> R2 U2 B2 F2 U' L2 F2 R2 F' R D' B2 R F L B' D' U2 B2 Rw2
> 
> ...


Do you use Speffz? I get a completely different solve.
Edit: Where do I get the scrambles BTW?


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## Shaky Hands (Jan 17, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> Do you use Speffz? I get a completely different solve.
> Edit: Where do I get the scrambles BTW?



I use Speffz as I understand it, yes. e.g.: my first target, C is at UF, then T is at BL. I've linked my solution to algdb so you can follow.

Scrambles are at http://wcadb.net/results.php?id=ManchesterOpen2017.


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## mafergut (Jan 17, 2017)

I saw the WuJi on LighTake and at 10% discount and I had to get one. Also the MF3RS was so cheap at $1.99 each and I've heard that it is the best budget 3x3 and a good option for MBLD so I ordered 6 of them. I don't think I'll ever do more than that at multi in my whole life. I hope it was a wise choice, as a while ago I was considering buying several Thunderclap v1 but ended up not getting them. All the cubes in stickerless of course.

Sent from my Nexus 4 with Tapatalk


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## mark49152 (Jan 17, 2017)

@Shaky Hands, I get a completely different memo too.


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## h2f (Jan 17, 2017)

Shaky Hands said:


> I'm confused. What have I done wrong here? I think I've been a plonker and there's something fundamental I'm misunderstanding about BLD. Cheers.



I dont know speffz but you're right - there's parity. So the corners must be odd as well as edges. Nice scramble anyway.


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## phreaker (Jan 17, 2017)

Shaky Hands said:


> Okay I'm looking back at the published scramble for my first 3BLD DNF from Sunday:
> 
> R2 U2 B2 F2 U' L2 F2 R2 F' R D' B2 R F L B' D' U2 B2 Rw2
> 
> Cheers.



http://scrambld.cubing.net/ ; if you want the answer... input the scramble there.

I have a hacked version that hides the solution from me, until I click an "unhide" button. It is useful for making sure I start learning memo right .


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## Shaky Hands (Jan 17, 2017)

@phreaker, thanks but unless I'm mistaken, it can't do the edges using OP, only corners.


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## phreaker (Jan 17, 2017)

Shaky Hands said:


> @phreaker, thanks but unless I'm mistaken, it can't do the edges using OP, only corners.


It is M2. But it can check your memo, that doesn't change. 

I'll probably just learn M2 to start. Simpler that way.


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## h2f (Jan 17, 2017)

My ao5 from Olsztyn Open.


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## Shaky Hands (Jan 17, 2017)

phreaker said:


> It is M2. But it can check your memo, that doesn't change.



But isn't the buffer is in a different position so I'm shooting at different targets?



phreaker said:


> I'll probably just learn M2 to start. Simpler that way.



I don't disagree. I did have a good look at M2 last night.


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## phreaker (Jan 17, 2017)

Shaky Hands said:


> But isn't the buffer is in a different position so I'm shooting at different targets?
> 
> 
> I don't disagree. I did have a good look at M2 last night.



That makes sense... my bad. I don't know the location of the OP buffer.

M2 doesn't look THAT bad. Noah's tutorial on it is quite good, and there's a ton of info on it.


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## Shaky Hands (Jan 17, 2017)

Does this help explain how I'm tracking the pieces?






Sorry about the angle.


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## Shaky Hands (Jan 17, 2017)

phreaker said:


> That makes sense... my bad. I don't know the location of the OP buffer.



OP edge buffer is at UR (Speffz B).


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## newtonbase (Jan 17, 2017)

Our letter systems are different. BL edge is R for me. Also, your original post said you do white on top! I'll look at your video in more detail when the kids are in bed.


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## Shaky Hands (Jan 17, 2017)

Sorry Mark, you're quite right. I've corrected the U face to Yellow on the original post.

And you're right, in Speffz BL is R and BR is T. For some reason they've gone into my head the other way. I'll need to fix this in my head as BUL is R and BDR is T for corners, which is correct. And there you have it, insight into a weary brain!


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## pglewis (Jan 17, 2017)

pglewis said:


> X-Man Tornado: ... Deja vu, very reminiscent of my AoLong V2 stickerless ...



Correction: very reminiscent of my _memory_ of my AoLong V2. Cleaned up and played with my old stickerless AoLong for a bit last night and the Tornado feels a _lot_ lighter in the hands and turning. I swear, the AoLong pieces just feel like they're made of stone compared to just about any newer cube. 

I got one of three blind successes Sun and a couple more successes yesterday. Breakdown on my best success was ~7:30/4:00. Execution for three of the successes were all 3:5x and a 3:30 execution on a "looks more scrambled than initially" DNF. "Decent" memo seems to be in the 7 min range to start, though I had one 5 mins and change memo on a failed solve. With a jotted down memo I did 4:09/2:22, to get a rough picture of how much my n00b memo is responsible for. I didn't even remotely anticipate that finding vivid words for letter pairs would be my biggest bottle-neck at this early stage, but I believe it is.


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## newtonbase (Jan 17, 2017)

Shaky Hands said:


> Sorry Mark, you're quite right. I've corrected the U face to Yellow on the original post.
> 
> And you're right, in Speffz BL is R and BR is T. For some reason they've gone into my head the other way. I'll need to fix this in my head as BUL is R and BDR is T for corners, which is correct. And there you have it, insight into a weary brain!


I've had a go and on your corners I think you need C between B and I. So PG WV BC IS N.


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## Shaky Hands (Jan 17, 2017)

@newtonbase, thanks that explains everything. I'd remembered BI as BIcycle instead of BC as BiCycle and the rest of my memo must have been something else.

Thanks for finding that for me. I can sleep peacefully again.

So should be:

y2 // inspection

//edges
R U R' F' R U R' U' R' F R2 U' R' U' // C
(L) R U R' U' R' F R2 U' R' U' R U R' F' (L') // "T" (actually R)
(D' Lw') R U R' F' R U R' U' R' F R2 U' R' U' (Lw D) // O
(Lw2 y') R' U L' U2 R U' R' U2 R L U' (y Lw2') // U
(Dw2' L) R U R' U' R' F R2 U' R' U' R U R' F' (L' Dw2) // J
(Lw) R U R' F' R U R' U' R' F R2 U' R' U' (Lw') // Q
(Lw y') R' U L' U2 R U' R' U2 R L U' (y Lw') // S
(L') R U R' U' R' F R2 U' R' U' R U R' F' (L) // L
(Dw2 L') R U R' U' R' F R2 U' R' U' R U R' F' (L Dw2') // "R" (actually T)

// parity
y' L U2 L' U2 L F' L' U' L U L F L2 U y

//corners
R U' R' U' R U R' F' R U R' U' R' F R // P
(F2 R') R U' R' U' R U R' F' R U R' U' R' F R (R F2') // G
(R2 F) R U' R' U' R U R' F' R U R' U' R' F R (F' R2) // W
(F' R') R U' R' U' R U R' F' R U R' U' R' F R (R F) // V
(R D') R U' R' U' R U R' F' R U R' U' R' F R (D R') // B
(F) R U' R' U' R U R' F' R U R' U' R' F R (F') // C
(F' D) R U' R' U' R U R' F' R U R' U' R' F R (D' F) // I
(D' R) R U' R' U' R U R' F' R U R' U' R' F R (R' D) // S
(R2) R U' R' U' R U R' F' R U R' U' R' F R (R2') // N


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## newtonbase (Jan 17, 2017)

Shaky Hands said:


> @newtonbase, thanks that explains everything. I'd remembered BI as BIcycle instead of BC as BiCycle and the rest of my memo must have been something else.
> 
> Thanks for finding that for me. I can sleep peacefully again.
> 
> ...


No problem. How do you memo? Some of your pairs seem very hard to visualise such as Parental Guidance, SQuery, Sierra Leone and Winter Variation - (Pig, Seth, Sail and Wave for me)


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## Shaky Hands (Jan 17, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> No problem. How do you memo? Some of your pairs seem very hard to visualise such as Parental Guidance, SQuery, Sierra Leone and Winter Variation - (Pig, Seth, Sail and Wave for me)



I just try and form a sentence or two. Parental Guidance can be visualised with the BBFC logo. JQuery is a programming language I work with a lot. Sierra Leone I know the flag for. Winter Variation just fits in when I'm in a cubing mindset. Any and all may well be replaced in time.


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## mark49152 (Jan 18, 2017)

pglewis said:


> I didn't even remotely anticipate that finding vivid words for letter pairs would be my biggest bottle-neck at this early stage, but I believe it is.


I found the same. When I started, I did not believe an image list would be necessary or beneficial, as I thought it that if I let the images naturally spring to mind they would be easier to remember. Maybe so, but it can waste a surprising amount of time finding and connecting images, and a fixed list helps that.


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## Shaky Hands (Jan 18, 2017)

Big cube fans - I'd highly recommend Kevin Hays' latest video on last 4 edge pairing. Well worth 7 minutes of your time. I know most of these cases already on 5x5, but there's some really useful tips on how to use them both there and on 6x6/7x7.


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## phreaker (Jan 18, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> I found the same. When I started, I did not believe an image list would be necessary or beneficial, as I thought it that if I let the images naturally spring to mind they would be easier to remember. Maybe so, but it can waste a surprising amount of time finding and connecting images, and a fixed list helps that.



I can see that. Has anyone here played with PAO? (Person Action Object) I have a set of lists for that all set up... but not for stock 2 letter memo.


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## newtonbase (Jan 18, 2017)

Shaky Hands said:


> Big cube fans - I'd highly recommend Kevin Hays' latest video on last 4 edge pairing. Well worth 7 minutes of your time. I know most of these cases already on 5x5, but there's some really useful tips on how to use them both there and on 6x6/7x7.


Thanks for posting that. There's nothing particularly new there but its very useful to see it all together and explained properly.


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## Jason Green (Jan 18, 2017)

pipkiksass said:


> Howdy folks, long time no post. Been keeping an eye on proceedings, excellent job at Manchester to all UK oldies!
> 
> I've not been timing pretty much anything, although I did have a new OLL which I successfully recognised in a sub-1:20 4x4 solve the other day. I'm successfully resisting the timer while I try to absorb my remaining OLLs, which is going... OK I guess.
> 
> ...



Sorry I never answered your question. I still love my Valk M. I'm almost starting to not mind E perms with it.  I also just got a WuQue and Yuxin 5x5 delivered today. Both very nice, probably mains. I got stickered, I think my recognition is better with the black edges.


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## pglewis (Jan 18, 2017)

phreaker said:


> I can see that. Has anyone here played with PAO? (Person Action Object) I have a set of lists for that all set up... but not for stock 2 letter memo.



I've been pondering how to attack it. 

For use with numbers, a mnemonic PAO system only has 10 symbols for 100 combinations of symbol pairs. Encoding Speffz requires 24 symbols for 576 symbol pairs. Triple that for the number of images to store per symbol pair, one each for person, action, and object.

On the opposite end of the scale, I could memorize 576 people but it would likely be harder to make fast connections... my story is now just a string of people which instinctively feels like it would be harder to memorize fast. I've been considering a basic noun/action approach as a compromise; 1152 images to collect to be complete. But I think it might be worth it, a cycle of "thing -> does stuff" feels like it lends itself to quick story building and just that much is mentally encoding 4 symbols.


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## mark49152 (Jan 18, 2017)

phreaker said:


> I can see that. Has anyone here played with PAO? (Person Action Object) I have a set of lists for that all set up... but not for stock 2 letter memo.


I have a list of images for all pairs but I have recently started adding additional images per pair. The reason for that is that sometimes I end up with combinations that don't work well in a scene and it's convenient to have alternatives. The situations that trip me up most are where three or more of the images in a scene are people, because I'd often mix them up (I have five images per scene). So I'm adding some objects as alternatives to people. I don't think I will carry that to the extreme of having PAO alternatives for every pair, but it's good to have a choice and mixture.


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## pipkiksass (Jan 18, 2017)

So after about a fortnight of slow solves only, I decided to do some timed 3x3 solves this morning, just to see where I'm at, and I really hit the ground running - first 5 solves were 16.59 Ao5, so I carried on... first 12 were 17.25 Ao12. Decided to make it into an Ao100, and here's the PBs:

Ao5 - 15.25 (was 15.47) - this one was about 2 years old!
Ao12 - 16.50 (was 16.65)
Ao50 - 17.49 (was 17.92)
Ao100 - 17.79 (was 18.58)

Best part of a second off my Ao100, and there were still some horrendous fails in there. Only PB not beaten was single, best time of the session was 12.70. 

Managed to successfully execute about a dozen new OLLs in the session as well, which is a bonus, although I did have to 2-look quite a few which I know but still can't execute at speed.

Off to update my sig!!! :-D



Spoiler: time distribution



I am a big fan of the Time Distribution tool on CSTimer, so here's a little snip:











Spoiler: 15.25 Ao5



Generated By csTimer on 2017-1-18
avg of 5: 15.25

Time List:
1. 16.12 L' F2 L D' U' R2 L' U2 L U D L D B' D' F2 L2 B2 R F' R2 D' U' L2 U
2. 14.73 D' F2 B2 R' F2 U2 F U2 B' R D' U' B D2 B' R D' L2 U2 F R' L' B2 R2 U'
3. (17.48) U L2 F L B L R2 D L R2 F' D' R L' U' L2 U D L' D2 U F2 D F' L2
4. (12.70) D F D' U F' D2 U2 F B R' F' R2 U2 L B' U2 D R D L2 U B' F2 L' U
5. 14.90 U D2 B F U' D' R' U F2 U B2 R2 D U2 R' L U' D' R D R' D' R D' U


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## JohnnyReggae (Jan 18, 2017)

At the moment I'm using 2 main 3x3's. I have a GAN Air for 2H and a Valk for OH and the occasional 2H. Last week they were both feeling sluggish so I decided to clean them out completely and lube. They were both great for possibly 5 or so days and they both suddenly turned rubbish in the space of half a day. So disassembled and recleaned and relubed with a little more additional lube. That just seemed to make both rubbish. They were both sluggish and hard to turn, even the Air which has the Green GES nuts in. So last night after struggling with both cubes I disassembled again and just cleaned out everything making sure I clean each piece meticulously and then reassembled without any lube.

Today both cubes are performing better than they ever have. The Valk is smooth and fast and the Air is light and really easy to turn. I'm considering just leaving them without lube as they seem to perform better than when I do apply lube even if that lube is weight 1 (TheCubicle lube).


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## phreaker (Jan 18, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> I have a list of images for all pairs but I have recently started adding additional images per pair. The reason for that is that sometimes I end up with combinations that don't work well in a scene and it's convenient to have alternatives. The situations that trip me up most are where three or more of the images in a scene are people, because I'd often mix them up (I have five images per scene). So I'm adding some objects as alternatives to people. I don't think I will carry that to the extreme of having PAO alternatives for every pair, but it's good to have a choice and mixture.



I don't have a "pair" as the starting object, it is letter, letter, letter. So it would be Grover Stabbing himself with a Dagger. (I see it as in the gut like ritual suicide) (GSD) I may use *anything* starting with the first letter for each of the items. At least that's the concept today.

I can see moving to a dual letter system at each point, if I get really into it. But for a starting plan it should work. 3 images for corners, 4 images for edges. Nothing is depicted as... boredom, or lack of an object, at least that's today. I may put in an explicit nothing symbol if it makes sense.


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## phreaker (Jan 18, 2017)

JohnnyReggae said:


> At the moment I'm using 2 main 3x3's. I have a GAN Air for 2H and a Valk for OH and the occasional 2H. Last week they were both feeling sluggish so I decided to clean them out completely and lube. They were both great for possibly 5 or so days and they both suddenly turned rubbish in the space of half a day. So disassembled and recleaned and relubed with a little more additional lube. That just seemed to make both rubbish. They were both sluggish and hard to turn, even the Air which has the Green GES nuts in. So last night after struggling with both cubes I disassembled again and just cleaned out everything making sure I clean each piece meticulously and then reassembled without any lube.
> 
> Today both cubes are performing better than they ever have. The Valk is smooth and fast and the Air is light and really easy to turn. I'm considering just leaving them without lube as they seem to perform better than when I do apply lube even if that lube is weight 1 (TheCubicle lube).



Lube is GREAT is VERY small quantities. I suspect my non-magnetic valk is over lubed and needs to be cleaned out, and redone.

The magnetic one is just rocking it. I'll have images from that cube's internals today. I lacked sleep last night and did an OK job with the photos, I missed one key one. The edge + corner open, actually magnetically connected. But the rest is pretty obvious. 

I can not recommend a magnetic valk enough... Amazing cube!


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## Selkie (Jan 18, 2017)

All this talk of BLD had persuaded me to rekindle the project that never got off the ground over Christmas due to the redundancy. Restarted on my letter pair list and will do some sighted solves today.

Managed to get my first sub 1 minute 4x4 average of 12 and on film too:-

Average of 12: 59.95


Spoiler



1. 1:00.05 u2 U B L u F' r2 u' D U' F2 B r2 U2 F2 R' r f' R' U2 f R' B R' u2 B2 D' u2 F' B' R L2 r U F2 B' L2 B2 F2 R 
2. 1:00.88 B' r2 F2 U2 f' F' L' R B f2 L2 R f' R' r' F2 L R2 r B2 L f2 R U' R' B' U2 R2 f D2 F D2 U' r2 f' L' r B2 F2 U2 
3. 56.08 U L U R' U' L r2 U R f U2 B2 D L f' r f2 R B2 D' f2 D L' f B L2 D u2 R2 L D' R U' L B' F' D R2 F U2 
4. (1:15.91) B2 F' D r' B F2 L2 f u R2 B' u F2 f' R2 u' B2 f' F2 D' B u2 r' f D' r2 L' B' D B2 F f D2 f r2 f2 R2 L f2 U 
5. 57.44 r D' L' F' B R' r' u' f2 D R U2 D2 B' r f2 R D F2 U R' F L2 U' B2 L2 U' B' f' F2 L' D u' L f u L R F f' 
6. 1:02.70 r L' B u' F2 L2 U2 F2 r2 U' D' u2 L' B' U D2 f U' F f' u2 R U' L2 u R' u' r2 U2 B u2 U B2 r2 D' L2 B U2 F R 
7. 1:01.78 u B2 r2 F2 f2 u f L' F f r F B f2 L' U2 F f' R2 B2 L' u' f' r2 f B2 D' r B' u' U2 R2 D2 r2 B L' F2 f B U2 
8. 58.82 u2 F' B2 D R r B2 R2 L r' U' L U' D L u' f r' u f' U2 D r D U' F2 R U f D' F' L2 U2 R' D2 U2 f2 R L2 f 
9. 58.09 F R' u' F' D B U R' L2 f2 F' U L' U2 R' F2 U' f' U D' r F' L2 F2 f' D' u U f' D' R' B' D2 B' U' f' R L r2 B 
10. 1:05.01 r' D2 U' L2 R2 r2 u' L2 f2 D' U R F f2 R2 F r F2 u2 U2 r2 U B L D' U u' L f2 D' F' u' R' F2 f2 U D2 B r L' 
11. (53.77) u2 R' r' B r L U f2 B2 L' U R' r' B' r D B' u U2 B2 F' L' r2 u r2 U2 r D' B' u2 L R' r f2 B2 r' f B2 F D2 
12. 58.61 D' L u F2 U2 F f' u' L' f' U2 u2 f r B' F u F2 B L R' D F' L R B F' r' U2 B' R U' u2 r2 D F U2 F u2 B


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## JohnnyReggae (Jan 18, 2017)

phreaker said:


> Lube is GREAT is VERY small quantities. I suspect my non-magnetic valk is over lubed and needs to be cleaned out, and redone.
> 
> The magnetic one is just rocking it. I'll have images from that cube's internals today. I lacked sleep last night and did an OK job with the photos, I missed one key one. The edge + corner open, actually magnetically connected. But the rest is pretty obvious.
> 
> I can not recommend a magnetic valk enough... Amazing cube!


I've ordered a 2nd Valk from Cubezz and some Magnets off eBay. I'm going to attempt to make my own Valk M. Seeing as I have an additional Yeuxiao I'm going to try doing a M version of that. I'd love an Air M but I'll wait and see how my DIY attempts go at making M cubes goes before spending $20 on another Air


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## phreaker (Jan 18, 2017)

Ok, for those wondering about the Blu Tack magnetic Valk... Here's the imgur album. 

I took them late last night, so I missed the obvious shot of the open corner + open edge together, magnetically. I hope people can see how it works without that .

http://imgur.com/a/cnJqq


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## phreaker (Jan 18, 2017)

JohnnyReggae said:


> I've ordered a 2nd Valk from Cubezz and some Magnets off eBay. I'm going to attempt to make my own Valk M. Seeing as I have an additional Yeuxiao I'm going to try doing a M version of that. I'd love an Air M but I'll wait and see how my DIY attempts go at making M cubes goes before spending $20 on another Air



The 356v2 I did was a much harder cube... take my advice on the blu tack, for your first magnetic cube, you will not regret it... especially if you make a mistake.

Also what strength magnets did you order?


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## Lid (Jan 18, 2017)

Finally did another a100 on Sq-1
Stats:
number of times: 100/100
best time: 11.291
worst time: 24.005

best avg5: 15.189 (σ = 1.24) (worse avg5: 20.863)
best avg12: 16.868 (σ = 2.23) (worse avg12: 19.521)
best avg50: 18.189 (σ = 1.95) (worse avg50: 18.634)
current avg100: 18.298 (σ = 1.85)

48 Parities
75 sub20s

Using my own setup btw, Low-mod + a fitted mf8 core & a CubeTwist spring, 50k on core & Maru on pieces.



Spoiler: Scambles & Times



Average of 100: 18.30
1. 18.40[p] (3, -4) / (6, -3) / (1, -2) / (-3, 0) / (2, -1) / (0, -2) / (-3, -3) / (2, -1) / (2, 0) / (2, 0) / (4, 0) /
2. 18.42 (-2, 0) / (5, -1) / (1, -2) / (3, 0) / (5, -3) / (-3, 0) / (-2, 0) / (6, -4) / (6, -2) / (0, -5) / (-2, -4) /
3. 18.10 (0, -4) / (4, 4) / (2, -1) / (0, -3) / (6, 0) / (-3, -5) / (0, -3) / (4, -1) / (4, 0) / (5, -4) / (-2, 0) / (0, -2) / (-4, 0)
4. 17.65[p] (4, 6) / (0, -3) / (5, -1) / (3, 0) / (4, -2) / (-3, 0) / (0, -1) / (0, -3) / (-1, 0) / (0, -2) / (3, -2) / (-3, -2) / (-3, 0)
5. 20.12 (1, 0) / (-4, -1) / (0, -3) / (4, -5) / (0, -3) / (-3, 0) / (2, -3) / (3, 0) / (3, 0) / (-2, 0) / (4, 0) / (0, -4) /
6. 17.39[p] (-3, 5) / (3, 0) / (0, -3) / (1, -5) / (5, 0) / (3, 0) / (1, 0) / (-2, -1) / (-2, 0) / (6, -3) / (-5, 0) / (0, -3)
7. 18.13 (-5, 0) / (0, 3) / (5, -1) / (-3, 0) / (3, 0) / (1, -5) / (-3, -4) / (3, 0) / (-4, -5) / (3, 0) / (6, -2) / (1, 0) / (6, 0)
8. 18.09[p] (-5, 0) / (0, 6) / (3, -3) / (-3, 0) / (-1, -1) / (-3, 0) / (1, -3) / (-3, 0) / (-1, 0) / (2, 0) / (0, -5) / (-4, -5) / (6, 0)
9. (13.66) (1, 0) / (2, -4) / (-3, 0) / (4, -5) / (0, -3) / (-3, 0) / (0, -4) / (3, 0) / (-3, 0) / (-3, -5) / (-1, 0) / (3, 0)
10. 15.29 (-2, -3) / (3, 0) / (2, -1) / (4, -2) / (3, 0) / (0, -3) / (2, 0) / (-3, -3) / (0, -1) / (-4, 0) / (2, 0) / (-2, 0) / (-5, 0)
11. 20.19[p] (0, -4) / (0, 3) / (3, 0) / (1, -5) / (-4, -1) / (-3, -3) / (-5, 0) / (0, -3) / (5, -2) / (-4, 0) / (0, -4) / (-2, 0) / (-3, -4)
12. 21.58[p] (0, -1) / (1, 1) / (3, 0) / (5, -4) / (-5, -5) / (3, 0) / (5, 0) / (3, 0) / (1, 0) / (0, -4) / (-2, 0) / (-2, 0) / (6, 0) / (-1, 0)
13. 18.77 (4, 0) / (5, -1) / (-3, -3) / (-3, 0) / (4, -5) / (0, -1) / (6, -3) / (1, -4) / (0, -2) / (-4, 0) / (0, -5) / (-4, 0) / (6, 0)
14. 18.18 (6, 2) / (0, -3) / (1, -2) / (5, -4) / (-2, -2) / (2, -3) / (6, -3) / (-3, 0) / (-5, -1) / (6, -2) / (-2, 0)
15. 17.59[p] (-2, 0) / (0, 3) / (5, -4) / (1, -2) / (-4, -1) / (-3, 0) / (-5, 0) / (-3, 0) / (0, -3) / (1, 0) / (0, -2) / (-2, -4) / (-2, 0) /
16. 18.01 (0, -1) / (0, -3) / (4, -5) / (-1, -4) / (0, -3) / (0, -3) / (-3, -2) / (3, 0) / (0, -4) / (1, 0) / (-2, 0) / (0, -4) / (0, -1) /
17. 19.29[p] (-5, 0) / (3, 0) / (0, -3) / (5, 0) / (3, 0) / (0, -4) / (0, -5) / (-5, -3) / (0, -1) / (5, -4) / (-4, 0) / (0, -2)
18. 19.26[p] (-5, 0) / (3, 6) / (3, 0) / (0, -3) / (-1, -4) / (3, 0) / (-5, -3) / (0, -3) / (0, -3) / (-3, -1) / (1, -4) / (0, -5) / (-2, 0)
19. 19.21[p] (0, 2) / (-3, 6) / (-3, 0) / (0, -3) / (4, -2) / (0, -3) / (-1, 0) / (0, -3) / (-2, 0) / (2, 0) / (4, -5) / (4, -1) / (6, -2)
20. 19.53 (-5, -3) / (2, -1) / (3, 0) / (3, -3) / (4, -2) / (0, -4) / (3, 0) / (-4, -5) / (3, -4) / (0, -4) / (6, 0) / (-2, 0) /
21. 21.01[p] (-2, 3) / (-4, -1) / (3, 0) / (-3, -3) / (0, -3) / (1, -3) / (-3, -3) / (-5, 0) / (-2, -4) / (-4, -2) / (6, 0)
22. 17.43 (-2, 0) / (-4, 2) / (0, -3) / (1, -5) / (3, 0) / (6, 0) / (-3, -4) / (0, -3) / (-1, -2) / (3, -2) / (1, 0) / (4, 0)
23. 18.69 (0, 2) / (3, 3) / (-2, -2) / (0, -3) / (0, -3) / (3, -1) / (0, -3) / (-1, 0) / (4, 0) / (2, 0) / (5, -4) / (1, -2)
24. 20.84 (6, 5) / (-2, -5) / (-4, -1) / (-3, 0) / (-2, -5) / (3, -1) / (3, 0) / (2, 0) / (-5, -3) / (-2, 0) / (0, -3) /
25. 17.39 (-5, -3) / (2, -1) / (-3, 0) / (3, 0) / (4, -2) / (0, -1) / (3, 0) / (2, -5) / (6, 0) / (0, -2) / (-3, 0) / (-5, -2) / (-4, 0)
26. 17.08 (1, 3) / (-4, -1) / (-3, 0) / (-3, 0) / (-2, -3) / (-3, -3) / (-5, 0) / (4, -4) / (1, 0) / (4, 0) / (0, -4) / (6, 0)
27. 15.96 (-3, 5) / (3, -3) / (-2, -5) / (-3, 0) / (-1, -4) / (1, 0) / (0, -3) / (-3, 0) / (3, -2) / (2, 0) / (0, -4)
28. 19.39[p] (-3, -4) / (1, -2) / (-3, -3) / (6, -1) / (-3, 0) / (-1, 0) / (2, 0) / (0, -5) / (-4, 0) / (-5, -2) / (0, -3) / (-4, 0) / (-5, 0)
29. 16.18[p] (-2, 6) / (3, 0) / (-3, 0) / (2, -1) / (0, -3) / (-3, -3) / (4, 0) / (3, 0) / (0, -5) / (-4, 0) / (6, -4) / (0, -2)
30. 15.59 (6, -1) / (3, 0) / (-2, -5) / (-3, 0) / (3, 0) / (-1, -1) / (0, -2) / (-3, -3) / (2, -5) / (6, -2) /
31. 17.70[p] (4, 0) / (3, 0) / (3, -3) / (5, -1) / (6, 0) / (-2, -5) / (0, -4) / (0, -3) / (5, -2) / (0, -2) / (0, -4) / (0, -5) / (0, -4)
32. (13.80) (0, 2) / (-3, -3) / (4, -2) / (5, 0) / (3, 0) / (-5, -4) / (0, -2) / (2, -3) / (0, -2) / (6, 0) / (-2, 0) / (0, -1) / (0, -3) /
33. (13.72) (-2, 0) / (2, 5) / (4, -2) / (-3, -3) / (3, 0) / (3, -1) / (-3, -3) / (-1, 0) / (4, -4) / (0, -2)
34. (24.01[p]) (-5, 0) / (0, -3) / (0, -3) / (2, -1) / (3, 0) / (-5, -2) / (-3, -4) / (-3, -3) / (0, -3) / (1, -3) / (4, -2) / (6, 0)
35. 21.02 (-2, 0) / (2, -4) / (-3, 0) / (0, -3) / (4, -5) / (-1, 0) / (0, -3) / (0, -3) / (0, -4) / (-2, 0) / (0, -4) / (2, -4) / (-2, 0) / (6, 0)
36. 19.73[p] (1, 6) / (-3, 0) / (0, -3) / (-1, -4) / (3, -2) / (0, -3) / (-2, -3) / (0, -2) / (-4, -4) / (-4, 0) / (6, -2) / (-2, -4)
37. 16.04 (-3, 2) / (-3, 0) / (1, -2) / (-3, 0) / (0, -3) / (-4, 0) / (3, 0) / (-5, -3) / (0, -1) / (0, -4) / (2, -3) / (4, -4) / (-4, 0)
38. 17.32 (4, 0) / (-4, -1) / (-2, -5) / (5, -4) / (1, -5) / (-4, 0) / (0, -3) / (4, -1) / (0, -4) / (4, -5) / (4, 0) / (6, -3)
39. 16.96 (-5, 3) / (6, 0) / (0, -3) / (0, -3) / (3, 0) / (2, -4) / (1, 0) / (0, -3) / (3, 0) / (6, -4) / (6, -2) / (2, -3) / (-4, 0)
40. 14.34 (0, -4) / (3, 0) / (6, 0) / (-5, -5) / (0, -3) / (5, 0) / (-3, 0) / (4, 0) / (5, 0) / (4, -3) / (-2, -5) / (-2, -1) / (6, -4)
41. (22.58[p]) (0, 5) / (6, 0) / (3, 0) / (1, -2) / (0, -3) / (2, -1) / (-2, 0) / (-3, -3) / (-5, -4) / (4, 0) / (6, -2) / (0, -4) / (5, 0)
42. 19.48[p] (0, -4) / (-3, 0) / (-5, -5) / (-3, 0) / (3, -3) / (-4, -1) / (-2, 0) / (-3, 0) / (-1, -2) / (-4, 0) / (3, 0) / (4, 0) / (0, -1)
43. (23.68[p]) (0, -1) / (0, 3) / (4, -5) / (2, -4) / (-3, 0) / (-2, -5) / (2, 0) / (3, 0) / (1, 0) / (4, 0) / (2, 0) / (-4, -3) / (-4, 0) /
44. 20.53[p] (1, 0) / (-1, -4) / (3, 0) / (3, 0) / (0, -3) / (4, -2) / (-4, 0) / (6, 0) / (3, 0) / (0, -1) / (2, 0) / (0, -2) / (2, -3)
45. 17.82 (3, -1) / (0, -3) / (4, -2) / (5, -4) / (1, -2) / (-1, -3) / (-3, 0) / (0, -1) / (4, 0) / (0, -2) / (-4, 0) / (4, -4)
46. 17.38 (-5, 0) / (-4, -1) / (1, -2) / (-3, 0) / (-1, -1) / (-2, 0) / (0, -3) / (-3, 0) / (0, -2) / (2, -2) / (-5, -4) / (-2, 0) / (0, -4)
47. 13.80 (3, 5) / (4, -2) / (6, -3) / (2, -1) / (0, -5) / (3, 0) / (-3, 0) / (-2, -4) / (6, -2) / (0, -3) / (-3, 0)
48. 20.75 (-2, 0) / (2, -1) / (3, 0) / (3, 0) / (0, -5) / (-3, -3) / (0, -5) / (4, -4) / (2, -4) / (2, 0) / (0, -3) / (-4, 0) / (-5, 0)
49. 17.64 (0, -4) / (3, 0) / (0, -3) / (0, -3) / (1, -2) / (0, -3) / (0, -3) / (5, 0) / (-3, 0) / (0, -3) / (-4, 0) / (4, -4) / (0, -2) / (2, 0)
50. 19.15[p] (4, 0) / (0, -3) / (-1, -1) / (-2, -5) / (5, -1) / (0, -5) / (-3, -3) / (0, -1) / (0, -4) / (4, -4) / (0, -1) / (0, -1) / (0, -5)
51. 20.38[p] (1, -3) / (5, -4) / (-2, -5) / (5, -4) / (0, -3) / (3, -2) / (3, 0) / (1, 0) / (-4, 0) / (-4, 0) / (6, -4) / (0, -2)
52. 19.50[p] (-5, 3) / (-4, -4) / (3, 0) / (-3, -3) / (-2, -5) / (0, -4) / (3, 0) / (-4, 0) / (-5, 0) / (-2, 0) / (0, -2) / (2, 0) / (-4, 0)
53. 20.46 (4, 6) / (-1, -4) / (0, -3) / (0, -3) / (3, -2) / (3, 0) / (0, -3) / (-1, -5) / (-4, 0) / (4, -4) / (-5, 0) / (6, -4) /
54. 14.50 (-3, 5) / (3, 0) / (-2, -2) / (-4, -1) / (-2, -5) / (-1, 0) / (3, 0) / (0, -4) / (-3, 0) / (-2, 0) / (-3, 0) /
55. 17.36[p] (3, 2) / (3, 0) / (-2, -5) / (-3, -3) / (3, 0) / (2, 0) / (0, -3) / (0, -1) / (0, -4) / (4, -2) / (-4, -3) / (1, 0) / (0, -4)
56. 15.76 (-5, 6) / (-3, -3) / (-4, -1) / (4, -5) / (0, -3) / (0, -1) / (-3, 0) / (0, -3) / (5, 0) / (2, 0) / (4, -5) / (-3, 0) /
57. 21.43[p] (-5, 0) / (-3, 6) / (5, -1) / (-3, 0) / (-3, 0) / (0, -2) / (0, -3) / (4, 0) / (0, -1) / (-2, 0) / (-4, 0) / (1, 0) /
58. 18.50[p] (4, 3) / (2, -1) / (0, -3) / (3, 0) / (0, -3) / (4, -5) / (5, 0) / (3, 0) / (1, -4) / (4, 0) / (6, -2) / (2, 0) /
59. 20.57[p] (0, -1) / (1, -5) / (0, -3) / (-3, 0) / (3, 0) / (0, -3) / (0, -4) / (0, -3) / (-1, -2) / (6, -4) / (0, -2) / (-1, 0) /
60. 20.08[p] (0, -1) / (3, -3) / (0, -3) / (-5, -5) / (-4, -4) / (-3, 0) / (1, 0) / (0, -3) / (-3, -2) / (2, 0) / (0, -2) / (3, -2)
61. 16.87 (6, 5) / (-3, 0) / (-3, 0) / (0, -3) / (1, -5) / (0, -1) / (-3, 0) / (0, -3) / (1, 0) / (0, -2) / (-4, -3) / (0, -2) / (6, 0)
62. 17.63[p] (0, -1) / (-3, 0) / (-5, -2) / (-3, -3) / (0, -3) / (-4, -1) / (-5, 0) / (0, -3) / (5, 0) / (6, 0) / (0, -4) / (-5, 0) / (4, -4) /
63. 17.23 (3, -1) / (-3, 0) / (3, 0) / (-3, -3) / (-5, -2) / (2, 0) / (0, -3) / (4, -3) / (6, -4) / (6, -2) / (2, -1) / (0, -2)
64. 21.89[p] (0, -1) / (3, 0) / (0, -3) / (1, -2) / (-3, 0) / (3, 0) / (6, -1) / (-3, 0) / (5, -2) / (4, -4) / (4, -4) / (5, 0) /
65. (22.85[p]) (1, 0) / (-3, 0) / (0, -3) / (-1, -4) / (-3, 0) / (-3, -3) / (1, 0) / (-3, -3) / (-3, 0) / (-4, 0) / (-4, 0) / (-5, -2)
66. 17.10 (6, 5) / (3, 0) / (-2, -2) / (0, -3) / (5, -4) / (3, 0) / (-2, 0) / (-3, 0) / (-1, 0) / (4, 0) / (-2, 0) / (0, -3) / (0, -3)
67. 21.78[p] (-3, -1) / (0, -3) / (0, -3) / (6, 0) / (-5, -5) / (3, 0) / (6, -4) / (-3, -3) / (-5, 0) / (-2, -4) / (2, -4) / (5, 0) /
68. (11.29) (3, -1) / (0, -3) / (-2, -2) / (0, -3) / (2, -4) / (6, 0) / (0, -5) / (0, -3) / (-3, 0) / (-3, -3) / (-2, 0)
69. 17.24[p] (4, 3) / (5, -1) / (3, 0) / (-3, 0) / (0, -3) / (6, -2) / (0, -3) / (-3, -1) / (1, 0) / (0, -4) / (-4, 0) / (0, -5) / (-4, -1)
70. 18.55[p] (-3, 2) / (-3, 0) / (3, 0) / (0, -3) / (3, 0) / (1, -5) / (-3, -1) / (0, -3) / (5, 0) / (0, -2) / (0, -2) / (6, 0) / (0, -4) / (0, -4)
71. 20.44 (-5, 0) / (-3, 0) / (-4, -4) / (0, -3) / (-3, -3) / (4, -3) / (-3, -3) / (0, -4) / (0, -5) / (6, -4) / (-1, 0) / (-5, -2)
72. 18.43 (4, 0) / (-4, 2) / (-2, -5) / (3, 0) / (-3, 0) / (0, -3) / (0, -1) / (3, 0) / (-4, -3) / (0, -2) / (4, 0) / (-2, 0) / (-4, 0) / (3, 0)
73. 19.83[p] (-5, 0) / (-4, -4) / (1, -5) / (6, -4) / (0, -3) / (5, -2) / (-4, 0) / (-3, 0) / (0, -2) / (1, 0) / (6, -2) / (0, -4) /
74. 15.76 (0, -4) / (3, -3) / (3, 0) / (4, -5) / (6, 0) / (0, -3) / (-4, -3) / (-3, 0) / (4, 0) / (3, 0) / (-2, 0) / (2, -4) / (4, 0) /
75. 17.50 (4, -3) / (3, 0) / (-3, 0) / (3, 0) / (0, -3) / (2, -1) / (-2, 0) / (-3, 0) / (0, -3) / (-5, 0) / (2, -2) / (4, 0) / (0, -1) / (0, -2)
76. 15.46[p] (1, -3) / (0, -3) / (-4, -1) / (4, -5) / (3, 0) / (3, 0) / (-4, 0) / (3, 0) / (1, 0) / (4, 0) / (5, 0) / (-2, -3) / (5, 0) /
77. 18.87[p] (-2, 0) / (5, 2) / (-3, -3) / (1, -2) / (3, 0) / (3, 0) / (-4, 0) / (3, 0) / (-3, 0) / (0, -4) / (3, -4) / (4, 0) / (-2, 0) /
78. 20.31[p] (1, 0) / (3, 0) / (-1, -1) / (0, -3) / (0, -3) / (-3, -2) / (-3, 0) / (0, -3) / (4, 0) / (-2, -4) / (4, -4) / (2, -2) / (-2, 0)
79. 15.16 (0, -1) / (3, 3) / (0, -3) / (4, -5) / (3, 0) / (3, -3) / (0, -4) / (-3, -3) / (-1, 0) / (-2, 0) / (-2, 0) / (0, -4) / (-2, -2)
80. 17.17 (6, 5) / (-2, -5) / (5, -4) / (3, 0) / (4, -5) / (0, -1) / (-3, 0) / (-3, -2) / (-2, -3) / (5, -4) / (-5, -4) /
81. 20.76[p] (6, 5) / (-2, -2) / (-1, -4) / (-5, -2) / (-4, -3) / (-3, 0) / (-2, 0) / (5, 0) / (2, 0) / (0, -3) / (2, -3) / (-4, 0) /
82. (13.50) (-2, 0) / (-4, -1) / (-3, 0) / (1, -2) / (0, -3) / (-4, 0) / (-3, -3) / (4, -1) / (-2, 0) / (2, -4) / (-4, 0) / (2, 0)
83. 18.92 (0, 2) / (6, 0) / (3, 0) / (-5, -2) / (6, -3) / (-1, 0) / (-3, 0) / (6, -3) / (-2, -4) / (0, -2)
84. 20.26[p] (-5, 0) / (-4, -1) / (0, -3) / (3, 0) / (-3, 0) / (4, -2) / (2, 0) / (6, -3) / (2, -5) / (0, -4) / (-3, 0) / (2, 0) /
85. 19.72[p] (-2, 0) / (0, -3) / (-4, -4) / (4, -5) / (-4, -1) / (-5, -3) / (-3, -3) / (-1, 0) / (-4, 0) / (4, 0) / (4, 0) / (2, -4) /
86. 16.81 (4, 0) / (-3, 0) / (-3, 0) / (-1, -4) / (1, -5) / (0, -3) / (-4, 0) / (-3, -3) / (2, -3) / (4, 0) / (-4, -2) / (0, -4) /
87. 17.08 (6, 2) / (1, -2) / (2, -4) / (4, -3) / (3, 0) / (-3, -5) / (-4, 0) / (1, 0) / (3, 0) / (4, 0) / (0, -2) / (-4, -5)
88. 17.56 (3, 5) / (-3, 0) / (1, -5) / (-3, 0) / (-4, -1) / (3, 0) / (4, 0) / (3, 0) / (0, -3) / (6, 0) / (-3, 0) / (-3, 0)
89. 20.72[p] (0, 5) / (-3, 3) / (-2, -2) / (3, 0) / (-1, -4) / (-5, 0) / (0, -3) / (5, -2) / (0, -2) / (-4, 0) / (-1, -4) / (0, -3) /
90. 19.54[p] (3, 5) / (0, -3) / (-2, -5) / (5, -4) / (3, 0) / (0, -2) / (0, -3) / (0, -1) / (3, -2) / (-2, -2) / (-1, -2) / (-2, 0) /
91. 16.35 (4, 0) / (6, 3) / (-3, 0) / (-1, -4) / (6, -3) / (3, 0) / (-5, 0) / (-3, 0) / (0, -3) / (6, -3) / (-1, 0) / (0, -4) / (-4, 0)
92. (23.59[p]) (-5, 0) / (-3, 0) / (5, -4) / (-2, -5) / (6, 0) / (0, -3) / (-3, -4) / (0, -3) / (-1, 0) / (-2, 0) / (2, 0) / (5, -4) / (4, -4)
93. 19.30[p] (6, 5) / (-5, -5) / (2, -4) / (-2, -5) / (5, -3) / (-3, 0) / (-2, 0) / (0, -1) / (4, -5) / (-1, 0) / (2, 0) / (4, -4)
94. 17.34 (0, 2) / (3, 3) / (1, -5) / (-3, 0) / (-4, -1) / (6, 0) / (0, -5) / (-3, -3) / (0, -1) / (0, -4) / (4, 0) / (-4, 0) / (-4, -4)
95. 19.07[p] (-2, 0) / (-1, 5) / (-3, -3) / (0, -3) / (0, -3) / (-2, -2) / (5, 0) / (3, 0) / (-3, 0) / (4, 0) / (0, -1) / (-2, 0) / (0, -5) / (-4, 0)
96. 17.08 (-2, 0) / (-1, -1) / (-2, -5) / (5, -1) / (0, -3) / (0, -5) / (3, 0) / (1, 0) / (2, -3) / (6, -4) / (-3, 0) / (0, -4) /
97. 14.78 (-5, 3) / (-3, 0) / (6, 0) / (0, -3) / (-4, 0) / (0, -3) / (0, -1) / (-3, -4) / (0, -2) / (1, 0) / (-4, 0) / (-4, 0) / (0, -2) / (6, -5)
98. 16.45[p] (-5, 0) / (0, -3) / (5, -4) / (1, -5) / (0, -3) / (-1, -4) / (4, 0) / (-3, -3) / (5, -2) / (-4, 0) / (2, -2) / (2, -2)
99. 17.52[p] (0, -4) / (0, -3) / (-5, -5) / (-3, 0) / (-3, 0) / (-1, -4) / (0, -2) / (6, -3) / (2, -5) / (4, -4) / (4, 0) / (-1, 0) / (4, 0)
100. 19.39 (0, 5) / (0, 3) / (0, -3) / (6, -3) / (-5, -5) / (5, 0) / (-3, 0) / (0, -3) / (2, 0) / (0, -4) / (4, 0) / (-3, 0) / (-5, 0) / (-4, -4)


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## Dom (Jan 18, 2017)

phreaker said:


> The 356v2 I did was a much harder cube... take my advice on the blu tack, for your first magnetic cube, you will not regret it... especially if you make a mistake.
> 
> Also what strength magnets did you order?


so awesome! thanks for taking it apart to show us! well-done!!


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## phreaker (Jan 18, 2017)

Dom said:


> so awesome! thanks for taking it apart to show us! well-done!!



Your welcome! I hope I can give to this community as it as given to me. 

The positioning on a 356 AIR will be different, just be aware if you do it... every cube is different as far as I know, for placement.

I may pull my GTS apart and add magnets, I haven't done it yet mainly due to lack of time/desire. The Valk is my normal main.

My times are dropping with the new cube. Usually, they don't change much, with a new cube... but this particular setup really seems to agree with me. I think that magnetic strength will be much like lube, and tensions eventually. Everyone will have their own preferences.


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## mark49152 (Jan 18, 2017)

phreaker said:


> I don't have a "pair" as the starting object, it is letter, letter, letter. So it would be Grover Stabbing himself with a Dagger. (I see it as in the gut like ritual suicide) (GSD)


The problem with this is that it's inefficient. You have to remember twice as much imagery. With a letter pair system the same memorized scene could give you GR ST DA.


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## phreaker (Jan 18, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> The problem with this is that it's inefficient. You have to remember twice as much imagery. With a letter pair system the same memorized scene could give you GR ST DA.


Yes, with letter pairs at each step... it is doubled. Compared to a straight up image system, which most people use. I don't know if I'll really be encoding more "mental images". It depends on the memory load to encode a PAO vs. just a random thing.


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## chtiger (Jan 18, 2017)

first attempt at 5BLD, arrggghhhhh, so close. 
Time was slow 52:06 [~30:00/22:06]. Wasted about 10 minutes messing up +center memo. Execution was slow because it's horrible trying to turn this thing accurately. I thought 30 minutes would be a realistic end goal, but now 40 minutes seems more reasonable, if someone can convince me to try it again.


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## mark49152 (Jan 18, 2017)

phreaker said:


> I don't know if I'll really be encoding more "mental images". It depends on the memory load to encode a PAO vs. just a random thing.


Sorry, I don't understand. My point is that using an image element for each letter is less efficient than using an image element per two letters. You could still use PAO with letter pairs of course. You'd just encode six letters in each PAO instead of three. 



chtiger said:


> View attachment 7400
> first attempt at 5BLD, arrggghhhhh, so close.


Congrats, that is really close for a first attempt. Time doesn't matter until you've had a couple of successes. It's satisfying just finishing the thing regardless of time.


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## phreaker (Jan 18, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> Sorry, I don't understand. My point is that using an image element for each letter is less efficient than using an image element per two letters. You could still use PAO with letter pairs of course. You'd just encode six letters in each PAO instead of three.



I considered that... And I thought "I can't develop 3 lists I can trust of that size... yet."

I wanted good simple words, and whatnot that were vivid, then to grow as I learn more. For the number memorizers, 2 letters per, is between their "normal" system, and their "we're working on it" system, from my reading.

But I'm no BLD expert. I'm just trying to get a 1/2 decent system down that gives me a shot at a first success, as I practice just trying to do OP corners right.


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## pglewis (Jan 18, 2017)

I'm definitely going for an image+ per pair. My quick math of 24* 24 didn't take into account at least 36 combinations that I don't think can occur using OP/M2, assuming standard Speffz and keeping separate lists for edges and corners: 24 double letter pairs (AA, BB, ...) and any combination with both buffers (AK, AU, EK, EU, RK, RU, KA, KE, KR, UA, UE, UR). So I think it's down to 540.

One image per pair can take me a long way but I think an additional image for either a vivid action or adjective would help even more. Some of my nouns can be verb-ized (pole vault / pole vaulted) so probably don't need it; others, especially proper nouns, would benefit from having an action/description alternate to help build quick stories that aren't just a string of nouns. It's obviously going to take some creativity for some of the letter pairs; they have to be vivid and not too ambiguous (is SA saw? or is SW saw?). Then I wrestle with having some combinations where the letters are the first two letters of a word (NUclear) and others are by syllables (NinJa), the consistency portion of my brain hurts.


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## mark49152 (Jan 18, 2017)

@pglewis, it sounds like you're going through a similar process that I did. The more systematic and consistent, the better, for learning; but ultimately, each one just embeds in your memory and it doesn't matter anymore how systematically you derived it.


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## mark49152 (Jan 18, 2017)

@Selkie, nice job on the 4x4 average. You win


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## h2f (Jan 19, 2017)

pglewis said:


> My quick math of 24* 24 didn't take into account at least 36 combinations that I don't think can occur using OP/M2, assuming standard Speffz and keeping separate lists for edges and corners: 24 double letter pairs (AA, BB, ...) and any combination with both buffers (AK, AU, EK, EU, RK, RU, KA, KE, KR, UA, UE, UR). So I think it's down to 540.



For edges it's in fact 22x20 = 440 because one target you can shoot in 20 locations and theres only 22 targets - buffer edge has to to sides and you dont memo it; 20 locations because you dont shoot the edge in the same location but with flipped sides. For corners its 21x18 = 378 - theres 21 locations (7 corners with 3 sides) and you can shoot it in 18 locations (6 corners with 3 sides).


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## JohnnyReggae (Jan 19, 2017)

phreaker said:


> The 356v2 I did was a much harder cube... take my advice on the blu tack, for your first magnetic cube, you will not regret it... especially if you make a mistake.
> 
> Also what strength magnets did you order?


I ordered some N35 Neodymium magnets .... quite a few actually  some 3mmx2mm and some 4mmx2mm.

I have tried to make a M cube with a Thunderclap, however the magnets I used were rubbish for the job. I got some 2mmx2mm square magnets and not following polarity around the cube when building it up was the first mistake, the 2nd was using twice as many magnets as I actually needed to. So the only position it actually works as it should is in the solved state as I built it up, the rest of the time it does nothing. Epic fail ...

Getting the right magnets should be a better start as would watching a few tutorials on the specific cubes


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## mark49152 (Jan 19, 2017)

h2f said:


> For edges it's in fact 22x20 = 440 because one target you can shoot in 20 locations and theres only 22 targets - buffer edge has to to sides and you dont memo it; 20 locations because you dont shoot the edge in the same location but with flipped sides. For corners its 21x18 = 378 - theres 21 locations (7 corners with 3 sides) and you can shoot it in 18 locations (6 corners with 3 sides).


That's the number of cases, but how many letter pairs/images do you need to learn? Many will be common between edges and corners, but some are not. I think @pglewis is right about the combinations of both buffers not being needed in 3BLD, but I need them for 4BLD. Edit: I think in 3BLD you also don't need combinations of a corner buffer piece letter with the other sticker on the same edge piece, so RH, HR, AQ, QA, ED, DE.

Personally I learned every combination of different letters from the 24. Because I swap M-slice targets in memo, I also need CC, WW, I I and SS. Although CW etc. are not needed for edges they are for corners and 4BLD. I also learned combinations of each letter with a trailing Z because I use Z for parity. So my image list is 24x24+4 = 580.

Although it sounds a lot, it's not hard to learn that many images.


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## h2f (Jan 19, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> I think @pglewis is right about the combinations of both buffers not being needed in 3BLD, but I need them for 4BLD.



I dont think you need a letter for buffer but you need the letter for the edge next to buffer edge - I mean Fdl. My point is that it's the upper limit of images you need. In fact for 3bld you need a little bit less though it's good to have few words/images for one pair. 



mark49152 said:


> Personally I learned every combination of different letters from the 24. Because I swap M-slice targets in memo, I also need CC, WW, I I and SS. Although CW etc. are not needed for edges they are for corners and 4BLD. I also learned combinations of each letter with a trailing Z because I use Z for parity. So my image list is 24x24+4 = 580.



My list is 23x23.


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## mark49152 (Jan 19, 2017)

h2f said:


> My list is 23x23.


Do you "use" the same letters on the buffer piece on both corners and edges? I know those letters are effectively not used, but if they aren't the same they don't reduce the number of pairs. So with Speffz the letters excluded from my corner pairs are A, E, R and from edges U, K so I still have 24 letters overall (plus Z). With hindsight it would be better to just not letter those buffer pieces at all and reduce the count to 22, but then it would be more difficult to have a consistent scheme for BigBLD.


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## h2f (Jan 19, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> Do you "use" the same letters on the buffer piece on both corners and edges?



No. I dont use any letter for buffer.  In 3bld or 4bld I memo corners last with audiopairs. I think your idea of remebering parity with Z is very intersting. It might be very usefull in big blindes. Though it might be hard for me to add it in Polish - we dont have words with Q, X. Y is often used to make plural. I must think about it. For parity I leave the single letter or I connect it with last word. In 3bld I often do audiopair made of 3 letters - it's out of order and it's very vivid in my mind. 

I think I'll create new list for centers.


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## mark49152 (Jan 19, 2017)

h2f said:


> I think your idea of remebering parity with Z is very intersting.


It's actually quite abstract because Z isn't an easy letter. For example, I memo XZ as xylophone. The Z is redundant, and I could have just as easily had a different rule, like Mark A's superheroes. The Z helps me in some cases, like FZ is Faz, and it's OK for audio.


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## h2f (Jan 19, 2017)

Intresting - in Polish theres a lot of words with Z and it's one of easiest letters in my table: both when Z is a first and second letter.


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## phreaker (Jan 19, 2017)

I shoulld have been clear, 2 numbers per P, A or O, and 3, is a


JohnnyReggae said:


> I ordered some N35 Neodymium magnets .... quite a few actually  some 3mmx2mm and some 4mmx2mm.
> 
> I have tried to make a M cube with a Thunderclap, however the magnets I used were rubbish for the job. I got some 2mmx2mm square magnets and not following polarity around the cube when building it up was the first mistake, the 2nd was using twice as many magnets as I actually needed to. So the only position it actually works as it should is in the solved state as I built it up, the rest of the time it does nothing. Epic fail ...
> 
> Getting the right magnets should be a better start as would watching a few tutorials on the specific cubes



Yep. Also never be afraid to experiment. though I'll admit I think 3x2mm N35 is a bit weak  I ordered my magnets in sets of 200. It just isn't worth waiting on the shipping if I want to do a project.


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## mark49152 (Jan 19, 2017)

phreaker said:


> I shoulld have been clear, 2 numbers per P, A or O, and 3, is a


Can't get clearer than that


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## Selkie (Jan 19, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> @Selkie, nice job on the 4x4 average. You win



I don't consider myself sub 1 yet, globally averaging about 1:02.5 and you still beat me by a long way officially my friend


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## phreaker (Jan 19, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> Can't get clearer than that


I looked on some normal memory forums, for people who do stuff like memorize card decks etc... PAO is a system they use, though they typically use 100 symbols per Person, Action or Object. There's some people working on bumping that to 1000.

To me that was a warning. If they couldn't handle the 1000... Chances are, I wasn't going to easily handle ~400-500 out of the box, for encoidng two letters per Person, Action or Object. So I chose the next number down. ~24. :

If I can form a vivid image out of a "PAO" triplet, as a single image... then it might work, was my thought. Then I get 24*24*24 or 13824 possibilities per memory spot. Which seems like a good deal.


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## MarcelP (Jan 19, 2017)

h2f said:


> My ao5 from Olsztyn Open.


Sub 19 official. How cool is that! Congrats sir. My hat off to you.


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## MarcelP (Jan 19, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> I wasted half an hour reminding myself why I don't practice pyraminx. Won't be doing that again.
> 2x2 next.


LOL.. What's wrong with Pyraminx? If I replace the word Pyra with Mega this post, it would have made complete sense to me


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## h2f (Jan 19, 2017)

MarcelP said:


> Sub 19 official. How cool is that! Congrats sir. My hat off to you.



Thanks Marcel. Imagine - I could be sub18 if I didnt screw one of last two solves.


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## newtonbase (Jan 19, 2017)

MarcelP said:


> LOL.. What's wrong with Pyraminx? If I replace the word Pyra with Mega this post, it would have made complete sense to me


I'm hopeless at it. It's so simple but I just can't get the hand of it. I did PB at the weekend though


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## kbrune (Jan 19, 2017)

Hey all! Congrats on all successes at comp last weekend.

Apologies for the TL;DR bellow

Question to everyone.

Have you ever suffered headaches or any brain issues from long periods of cubing or learning new events or techniques in general?

I ask because I'm currently dealing with this issue. It started for me about a year ago when I challenged myself to learn all events and get results in all events.

At first it was the ususal cloudy mind after long sessions of solving. Which wasn't an issue. It would go away after a break and I likened it to physical exercise where your muscles would get tired.

Slowly it grew to headaches. At first I didn't realise they were a result of cubing. I assumed it was my addiction to coffee. So I significantly slowed down my coffee intake but this made no difference. Even a month without coffee didn't stop the headaches.

I came to realize it was cubing since the only time the headaches went away is when I stepped away from cubing altogether. Either from busy life or whatever. Once I started regular practice again for upcoming comps. Headaches would start up again.

In the last 2 weeks though it's gotten worse. Couple of months ago i challenged myself to improve 3bld and mbld. So learning comms, pushing memo, implementing my letter pair list, and studying. In the last 2 weeks its to the point where I get 20 solves into an ao50 and my head is cloudy and hurts more then ususal. Today I did an ao5 for 2x2. 3 solves on 4x4 and I'm feeling it. It's scaring me.

I'm worried I'll have to purposely step away from cubing for a while. Which will derail my progress in Bld. Does anyone of my genius cubing colleagues have any knowledge in neuro science?

Anyone know if you can cause serious damage when pushing a brain with headaches? I did a couple of Google searches but haven't found anything useful yet.


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## h2f (Jan 19, 2017)

kbrune said:


> Have you ever suffered headaches or any brain issues from long periods of cubing or learning new events or techniques in general?



Sad to read it. I've never had such symptoms caused with cubing.


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## newtonbase (Jan 19, 2017)

kbrune said:


> Hey all! Congrats on all successes at comp last weekend.
> 
> Apologies for the TL;DR bellow
> 
> ...


Could it be a sight problem? Have you had your eyes tested? Do you take regular breaks or sit staring at the cubes for lengthy periods? 
Maybe try looking at something further away after every AO5.


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## pglewis (Jan 19, 2017)

@kbrune: do you get any neck or shoulder pain? Have issues with extremities tingling? I've been a developer since 19*mumble-mumble* and I think I've traced my chronic headaches to a couple decades of poor posture resulting in neck curvature issues. Cubing for long periods of time could be bending your neck down and causing strain, you may try making sure to stretch the neck muscles when you take breaks and make a conscious effort to keep the neck, back, and shoulders straight. 

Also could be eye related or a combination, as @newtonbase says. What I do _not_ want to believe is that you're hurting yourself by thinking too much! Whatever the case, I hope you can remedy it, headaches are no fun.


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## kbrune (Jan 19, 2017)

@newtonbase @pglewis

I've heard of issues with eyes being related to headaches. Perhaps I'll have my eyes tested just in case. Based on when and how the headaches come on. It feels more like a result of processing during solves, thinking and figuring things out. I certainly can't rule out the possibility. I haven't felt any neck or shoulder pain really. I'm going to pay attention more though.

I also do not want to believe that solving hurts!


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## pglewis (Jan 19, 2017)

Great image/letter pair discussion. I'll add some resources I've been using besides the letter pair list on the wiki and Chris Hardwick's lists: 

Acronyms on The Free Dictionary Just searching on a letter pair can turn up some handy ones that are easy to remember

People by Initials When all else fails, maybe there's an easy famous person

You Go Words! This is fantastic, especially for finding useful alternates. You can specify parts of speech, so "verb starting with sn" is a valid search. Genius. 

More Words Won't do parts of speech but will do single and multi character wildcards, which I don't think the above site supports. Handy to be able to specify searches like "g-ff*". 

And occasionally a search on the letter pair in good ol' Wikipedia comes up with something good that none of the others did.


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## mafergut (Jan 19, 2017)

Sorry to hear about your headache issues, @kbrune. I hope you can sort it out with the help of the doctors. The prospect of having to abandon a hobby just because of health issues is not good. I had to stop biking and running due to a couple "slipped discs" (not sure if that's the correct way to say it in English) and it's no fun at all.

I tend to agree, though, with the others that it could be either something related to your sight or your neck. Good luck and a good dose of patience as well.

EDIT: Oh, I'm sure I forgot to congratulate a lot of people, like @h2f Grzegorz for that official sub-19 Ao5 and @Selkie Chris for that sub 1min Ao12 at 4x4, surely to others but I do not have as much time to roam the forum as before. Great stuff!!!

What I had yesterday was like 1h train commute to solve my new WuShuang and I think I am getting used to the smaller size and liking it better than my Yuxin 5x5. The 3x3 stage is definitely faster and algs flow very nicely, helped by the smaller size. Still having some problems with slices during edge pairing but I like the cube a lot.


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## pglewis (Jan 19, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> ... but ultimately, each one just embeds in your memory and it doesn't matter anymore how systematically you derived it ...



Yeah, I need to keep in mind that the association stuff only matters for me at this stage. It doesn't matter if I stash "Fred Flintstone" as the image for "XW" as long as that association is embedded and automatic, somehow. I could ditch symbols completely and just associate images with positions directly, using the corners and edges of a room to visualize. I'll pass on that novelty though, if for no other reason than standards make communicating with others a lot easier. 



phreaker said:


> If I can form a vivid image out of a "PAO" triplet, as a single image... then it might work, was my thought



I think that can possibly work well. The actual number of words doesn't seem to be the mental cost for me, it's the number of images. It would certainly fill out your image association table a lot faster.


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## newtonbase (Jan 19, 2017)

pglewis said:


> @kbrune: do you get any neck or shoulder pain? Have issues with extremities tingling? I've been a developer since 19*mumble-mumble* and I think I've traced my chronic headaches to a couple decades of poor posture resulting in neck curvature issues. Cubing for long periods of time could be bending your neck down and causing strain, you may try making sure to stretch the neck muscles when you take breaks and make a conscious effort to keep the neck, back, and shoulders straight.
> 
> Also could be eye related or a combination, as @newtonbase says. What I do _not_ want to believe is that you're hurting yourself by thinking too much! Whatever the case, I hope you can remedy it, headaches are no fun.


I hadn't considered posture as the problem but it is definitely a strong possibility. 


pglewis said:


> Great image/letter pair discussion. I'll add some resources I've been using besides the letter pair list on the wiki and Chris Hardwick's lists:
> 
> Acronyms on The Free Dictionary Just searching on a letter pair can turn up some handy ones that are easy to remember
> 
> ...


People by Initials is a favourite of mine and I did have a similar one but have misplaced the link. I'll have a look at the others.


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## moralsh (Jan 19, 2017)

I need to post this:

After a very complicated start of the year fore several reasons (some good, some bad) and almost no practice, I did some 4x4 solves (1:15 Ao5) and some 3x3 because I have a comp on Saturday, after 15-20 solves averaging 19-18, came this:

https://alg.cubing.net/?setup=L2_U_...U-_R-_U-_R_y_R2_Uw_R-_U_R_U-_R_Uw-_R2_//_PLL


9.57 Full step, obviously PB

Sorry for being so out lately, I'll try to catch up a little next week


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## h2f (Jan 19, 2017)

moralsh said:


> I need to post this:
> 
> After a very complicated start of the year fore several reasons (some good, some bad) and almost no practice, I did some 4x4 solves (1:15 Ao5) and some 3x3 because I have a comp on Saturday, after 15-20 solves averaging 19-18, came this:
> 
> ...


 Very nice. And nice TPS.


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## phreaker (Jan 19, 2017)

pglewis said:


> I think that can possibly work well. The actual number of words doesn't seem to be the mental cost for me, it's the number of images. It would certainly fill out your image association table a lot faster.



I ttied to do the "fill out the table" exercise... it was horrible for me . This is my response to it.. more research .


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## mark49152 (Jan 19, 2017)

@kbrune: Posture is a definite possibility. You say you haven't noticed pain in the neck, but tension in the neck can manifest as headache. You could try switching your solving to a different chair and table for a while, or to a sofa, etc.

@pglewis: Another good resource I have used a lot is http://www.visca.com/regexdict/


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## pglewis (Jan 20, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> Another good resource I have used a lot is http://www.visca.com/regexdict/



This looks like exactly what I was looking for in several search attempts.


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## pipkiksass (Jan 20, 2017)

@Selkie - very nice 4x4 average. I'm still to get that elusive sub-1. Timer stopped at 57 seconds the other day, but I'm sure it was a mistake, the solve didn't FEEL fast, so I deleted it! Did TheCubicle give any idea how long your Valk M will take? It still shows as back-ordered on the site. I'm seriously tempted...

I'll chime in on the back pain debate: had years of back, neck, and shoulder pain and headaches, sitting at a desk staring at a computer screen all day. I've had physiotherapy, seen osteopaths, etc., etc. Now I'm on long term sick leave - haven't spent any time sat at a desk, and haven't had a headache or back pain in months. I think it's a combination of stress (causing tension in muscles) and long term bad posture. 

Anyway, after a freakishly good session 2 days ago, I decided to time a dozen or so solves before I crack on with OLL learning, and I appear to have magically gone from being about 19.5 global average to sub-18 (maybe even sub-17.5). WORST Ao12 was 17.07. Best was 16.09, which is ANOTHER half a second taken off my PB (16.65 for 2 years, then 16.50 on Wednesday...). 

I'm not going to do any more timed solves, although I'm certain all my PBs are all about to get absolutely smashed - I was within .1 second of my Ao5 PB and only did 16 solves, which included 2 full-step 13s. 

As if anyone on this thread needed convincing of this certain truth - slow practice WORKS. When I returned to cubing in October I was averaging 21.5ish, then on New Year's Day I was averaging 18.8x. I'm not slow turning for slow turning's sake, but in the interest of finishing OLL (and incidental lookahead practice), and my times have dropped by well over a second, after having plateaued for a significant time. 

I think, before quitting cubing, the best I ever averaged was about 19, which took me 2 years. After 3 months back, I'm now faster than before. And only about 9 OLLs to go!!! :-D


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## Selkie (Jan 20, 2017)

@kbrune - Sorry to hear you aren't feeling your best. Eyesight can definitely cause this so I would get tested as soon as possible to rule it out. I also had a bad neck injury playing rugby some 30 odd years ago and during the healing process I suffered some very bad headaches. The spinal column can directly effect the head. Hope you feel better soon. 

@mafergut - I prefer the WuShuang over the Yuxin now. Thats the cube I used at Birmingham Open. Also just got a 1:56.19 ao5 on it on film which I will upload to my channel directly. I do find it a little sluggish now without maru but it flies with that in it. I should get some cubicle silk as it is supposed to be like Maru but last longer than half hour.

@moralsh - Wow what an awesome fullstep single. Congratulations sir 

@pipkiksass - No no indication from Cubicle though I have made two orders from them. The second one last night is showing as "Processing(Rush)" and the older one with the Valk M is showing as "Preparing Shipment" so I can only assume the Valk M is ready?! Awesome progress you are making currently on 3x3. Amazing what a bit of change of practice regime can do


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## pipkiksass (Jan 20, 2017)

Thanks @Selkie - inspired by your 4x4 vid, I decided to knock out a quick timed session, and broke all my PBs (it's been a good week for me!). Also, first session using cross on left, which I haven't practiced, but looks nice in your vid for transitions and consistency. Broke my single PB twice, but I was determined to keep going until I got a sub-1:10, which I just hit with no parity:

single - 1:09.32 (was 1:11.02)
Ao5 - 1:15.48 (was 1:19.23)
A012 - 1:19.16 (was 1:23.82)

My 4x4 times have always been significantly more consistent than my 3x3 in the past, but I think the less I do timed solves, the more consistent my times have become in both events (unsurprisingly). But also my PB short averages used to be considerably faster than long averages, but the gap is definitely narrowing. This is nice, because I feel like I could realistically break my short average PBs (5/12) at any time, where previously I thought I needed a ridiculous run of consecutive flukes, or exceptional solves. 

I think if I did an Ao100 at either 4x4 or 3x3 I'd break all my PBs again, but I must stop procrastinating, and crack on with OLL!!!


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## kbrune (Jan 20, 2017)

Thanks for the encouragement and suggestions guys! Much appreciated. @newtonbase @pglewis @mark49152 @Selkie

I never payed a whole lot of attention to my health in my life. Due to a combination of lucky genetics (never eaten well and had a six pack until my 30s) and lazinss. Oddly enough the prospect of having to put my favorite hobby on hold has finally pushed me to actively change some bad habits lol I feel like I should become an ambassador of cubing as a catalyst for health.. a stretch I suppose

I'll keep you all posted if I find a direct cause. In the mean time I'm looking I to many things. More breaks, less marsthon sessions. Re-introducing Excersise, posture related stuff, Adding some vitamins, getting the eyes checked.

@pipkiksass 

Nice progress dude! I know you're attributing slow practice to better times. But have you noticed an improvement in how well your Inspection goes? As in being able to remember your solution to cross, enabling pair tracking? I feel like that's my biggest weakness. Although it has improved in the last six months or so. I still find it difficult to solve my cross without focusing on it. Especially for any solutions above 5 moves


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## Logiqx (Jan 20, 2017)

After a quick read of the thread to bring myself up-to-date, I'll just comment on a couple of topics:

@moralsh - awesome to see you got a full-step sub-10 

@kbrune - posture and / or eyesight seem like the most likely explanations for your headaches but still worth seeing your GP


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## Selkie (Jan 20, 2017)

Selkie said:


> ...Also just got a [5x5] 1:56.19 ao5 on it on film which I will upload to my channel directly.


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## pipkiksass (Jan 20, 2017)

kbrune said:


> @pipkiksass
> 
> Nice progress dude! I know you're attributing slow practice to better times. But have you noticed an improvement in how well your Inspection goes? As in being able to remember your solution to cross, enabling pair tracking? I feel like that's my biggest weakness. Although it has improved in the last six months or so. I still find it difficult to solve my cross without focusing on it. Especially for any solutions above 5 moves


Thanks! Yeah, I reckon my inspection has definitely improved. The difference between when I was averaging 19ish 2 years ago and when I averaged 19ish now was significant. My cross solutions are better, but I still often only plan 3 edges, which normally results in a slow time (surprise, surprise). I'm too lazy to do disciplined cross training, but I'm sure it would significantly improve my averages. 

Hope your injuries improve. Sounds like you're making sensible changes. I'm dreading going back to work, pretty sure I'll relapse into a world of back pain and headaches in no time. 


Selkie said:


>


Didn't realise I hadn't already subscribed to your channel. Have now! You do realise I'll now have to practice 5x5 and beat my PBs as a direct result of your video... you're not helping me finish OLL!!!


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## pglewis (Jan 20, 2017)

kbrune said:


> Based on when and how the headaches come on. It feels more like a result of processing during solves, thinking and figuring things out.



Also, this makes me think maybe you're subconsciously furrowing your brow or something during solves. Facial muscle stress or something like that could add up after a few hours and turn into a headache. I find this with guitar playing too... my brain thinks tensing up muscles is how you go faster (it's sooooo wrong). Maybe pay close attention or even film yourself solving.


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## kbrune (Jan 20, 2017)

pglewis said:


> Also, this makes me think maybe you're subconsciously furrowing your brow or something during solves. Facial muscle stress or something like that could add up after a few hours and turn into a headache. I find this with guitar playing too... my brain thinks tensing up muscles is how you go faster (it's sooooo wrong). Maybe pay close attention or even film yourself solving.



I think you just may have helped me find a piece of this puzzle! I've noticed that I clench my teeth when I solve. Long sessions of clenching teeth could also contribute. I'll have to look into to that as well!


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## newtonbase (Jan 20, 2017)

kbrune said:


> I think you just may have helped me find a piece of this puzzle! I've noticed that I clench my teeth when I solve. Long sessions of clenching teeth could also contribute. I'll have to look into to that as well!


I think you've found your answer.


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## newtonbase (Jan 20, 2017)

@kbrune http://www.chatelaine.com/health/unclench-your-jaw-for-instant-tension-headache-relief/


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## teacher77 (Jan 21, 2017)

kbrune said:


> @teacher77
> I'm going to be at the Montreal comp. I'd be happy to give you a tour so to speak when we're there.
> 
> It's very well organized but you still have to pay attention to where they are in the schedule. You'll receive name tag that you can wear as a necklace. On the vm back of it shows your events and respective heat numbers. They normally have a mic and announce the heats. Sometimes it's hard to hear depending on the venue and where you're sitting.
> ...



Thanks for these explanations and looking forward to meeting you.

How can you tell that there will be many first timers ?


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## teacher77 (Jan 21, 2017)

kbrune said:


> @megagoune
> @teacher77
> 
> What are your names? I'm Ken



Relevant information !

My name is Mathieu.


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## teacher77 (Jan 21, 2017)

Hey guys !

I finally came satisfied with a decent alg for each and every PLLs. This brought my average PLL (for recognition + exec) to 5.78 sec.

However, the cross on the bottom is still a huge fail. I miss it a good third of the times.


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## h2f (Jan 21, 2017)

teacher77 said:


> However, the cross on the bottom is still a huge fail. I miss it a good third of the times.



You can practice cross starting with 2 solved arms and solving only two others. When you feel comfortable do it with only 1 arm solved. Etc. Experiment a lot, for example doing B/B' moves, changing starting position etc.


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## Logiqx (Jan 21, 2017)

It's been a while since I've done any filming so I did a video session today.

I caught a sub-10 Ao12 on camera. Sadly not for 3x3x3... only Skewb. 

The Ao5 and Ao12 were helped by a few easy / lucky solves.

The overall session consisted of 100 solves and it was an 11.41 average.


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## pglewis (Jan 21, 2017)

Learning blind fundamentals kinda took over my practice sessions but I can't complain since I'm much farther along at this stage than expected. I'm not even concerned about making many full blind attempts again for a while, I proved to myself that I can do it. Prepared images will speed my memo a lot and I also need to get faster at recognizing pieces within the Speffz scheme and tracing the cycles-- general newbie stuff. I'm currently doing like 20 or 30 min memos, if that's what it takes to scour my resources and dig up decent images for combinations I don't have filled-in yet. It's no fun to just brute-force my way through the list and collecting them as they actually occur in scrambles gives me the other memo practice I need. Eventually I'll reach a point where I only have to look up an image or three for a solve. 

Most other practice has taken a back seat but I have kept my vow of not letting 2x2 go stale; all PBs were set in the past week. Also about 10 mins a day on Pyraminx, which is about all I can handle.


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## moralsh (Jan 22, 2017)

Some updates after Camarma 2017:

I like 1 day comps, sure you have a lot less events than in 2 day comps, but they are intense and more easily manageable from the family point of view .

I had a great morning and a poor afternoon, let´s get a bit into detail.

4x4: 1st thing in the morning we have 4x4 combined final, as I said a couple of days ago, I have barely practiced anything since the begin of the year, but I have a new WuQue and that was enough, 1:16 average and 1:04.99 single (which would have been an LL skip if it hadn't had PLL parity).

3x3 first round: a +2 on the third solve while dropping the cube on the 3rd solve prevented me from having a 18.50 average, but I improved mi PB to 19.16 nonetheless, so very happy about it. My hands were shaky all the way but somehow I managed to stay constant next comp will break 19 I guess 

Pyra and 2x2: two events I don't practice at all but at least I had a lucky single (3.38) and also dropped the average on pyra in the second round a little.

3x3 OH: 2 mediocre averages but I improved my single to 27.67.

Afternoon:

Multi: I just couldn't concentrate and DNFed, I was just trying 5 cubes to end in about half an hour, but I even failed the short memo cube, horrible.

3x3 2nd Round: Started poorly and when I was getting comfortable there were no more solves, a pity 

3x3 Blind: very slow memos, the second one was a very good scramble and I spent a lot of time searching for a lost cycle that just wasn't there, the DNF, off by a Cycle, was the fastest of the 3 but slow (2:10), again a DNF away from getting a mean.


That was all, next comp in a couple of months, is going to be difficult to get practice, but I guess I'll manage.


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## Logiqx (Jan 22, 2017)

I forgot to mention that I updated the oldie rankings yesterday. Remind me to do it again later next week when the latest results are on the WCA website.


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## Logiqx (Jan 22, 2017)

World Champs 2017 - It looks like there will be a good number of the UK oldies in Paris for the WC in July.

100% - Andy @Shaky Hands, 100% - Ben @bubbagrub, 99% - Mark @newtonbase, 99% - Mike @Logiqx, 90% - Chris @Selkie, 50% - Mark @mark49152

Who else is hoping / planning to attend from this list? It'd be great to have a giant meet up for everyone!


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## moralsh (Jan 22, 2017)

@Logiqx I definitely plan on attending WC 2017 but I have some circumstances that may not let me, put me there at 50% with Mark.

also results are up since late yesterday night but just update whenever you like to, there's no rush


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## mafergut (Jan 22, 2017)

No need to say this, I think, but there's 0% chance you'll see me in Paris 

Also it feels so good when you are still starting to practice a new event and you improve a lot... I had almost forgotten. I had not solved a 6x6 since August and not more than like 20-30 timed solves in total. I decided to try my new WuHua this weekend so I did like 10 more solves... but most of them with the Yuxin 6x6  which I am liking more than the WuHua. Managed to almost get PB after PB for 6 solves and improved more than half a minute but, don't worry, with just 30-something timed solves I'm still at 6:48.xx  but my PB from August was like 7:20. I expect to keep improving and get at least closer to 6:00 or even sub 6:00 which would be more in line with my 5x5 times.


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## Logiqx (Jan 22, 2017)

moralsh said:


> results are up since late yesterday night but just update whenever you like to, there's no rush



Updated. Nice results.


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## chtiger (Jan 22, 2017)

Logiqx said:


> Updated. Nice results.


Wait for me, jk
http://cubecomps.com/live.php?cid=1936&compid=72

Knocked out a couple of minor 2017 comp goals, but missed on the major one, even with 3 rounds.

3x3 - already had decent results for me, so any PB this year was my goal. Got some pretty good improvements.
First Round - 19.86, 25.59, 19.55, 20.88, 37.09 = *22.11*
Second Round - 24.19, 21.23, 18.80, 18.83, 24.21 *= 21.42* 
Final - 25.33, 24.64, 23.20, 23.75, 28.42 = *24.57*

2x2 - goal was sub-7 avg
Combined Final - 4.36, 7.84, 7.82, 6.82, 6.28 = *6.97* 

Pyraminx - no goals for this, but happy with a sub-10 single and good improvement in avg
Combined First - 16.15, 12.26, 10.41, 13.21, 12.18 = *12.55* 
Final - 12.79, 15.77, 13.28, 9.89, 15.45 *= 13.84*

Clock - come on sub-11 avg, should be easy, but it's not
Combined First - DNF, 10.47, 10.43, 13.23, 12.05 = *11.92*
Second Round - 14.63, 13.13, 9.99, 11.50, 10.41 = *11.68*
Final - 11.25, 10.21, DNF(9.74, nooooooooooooo), 14.14, DNF *= DNF*
last solve went too fast trying to get a pb single since avg was shot after previous 2 solves. Did get sub-Feliks avg, which was an old goal. MBLD is only other possibility for me to be ranked ahead of Feliks. Hopefully he never does clock again. Overall, got PB's everywhere except clock single.


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## Jason Green (Jan 23, 2017)

kbrune said:


> Anyone know if you can cause serious damage when pushing a brain with headaches? I did a couple of Google searches but haven't found anything useful yet.


I'm pretty sure you cannot, but I'm not an expert. I do have migraines on occasion, and a doctor once told me if I can try to concentrate more when I feel one coming on it will actually help. 

The only other thought I have, could the cubing be stressful? Maybe it's the stress or it's raising your blood pressure which can cause headaches. I know cubing should be for fun but I admit I get a little stressed from it at times. So much I'd like to accomplish. Overall it's not been a major issue for me and I enjoy it more than I worry about it, but just a thought.

On a different note I had a small negative with Valk M, one of the corners had the magnets come loose! I heard a rattling and didn't know what it was and did several more solves. When I took it apart all the magnets were loose and stuck together. I'm thinking one came off and stuck to the next, and the added weight made it pull it off easier and so forth. I was afraid I would not get it back together, but with a little super glue I managed to get them back in the original spots!

Small comp next month near here and 2 youngsters I know will be attending for the first time. One is a son of an old friend of mine, the other is from the cube club at the elementary. Going to have a practice session or two with them before, I'm excited to see how they improve in the coming years if they stick with it. They are both 10 years old I believe.


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## h2f (Jan 23, 2017)

I've added subtitles for you guys to my relation from Olsztyn Open 2017:


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## teacher77 (Jan 23, 2017)

Logiqx said:


> I forgot to mention that I updated the oldie rankings yesterday. Remind me to do it again later next week when the latest results are on the WCA website.



Will I be in the list if I turn 40 three weeks after the comp ? ;-)


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## newtonbase (Jan 23, 2017)

Jason Green said:


> I do have migraines on occasion, and a doctor once told me if I can try to concentrate more when I feel one coming on it will actually help.


"Sorry, not tonight darling. I have a headache. I'm off to do some practice."

Tried a 3 cube multi on my lunch break. Failed it in only half the time of my other attempt at 3. Was around 15 mins (forgot to start the timer). I'm so used to 3BLD that it's hard to get used to using rooms properly. I did @mark49152 's trick of confusing corners and edges and had to retrace more than once. It was a useful exercise. What order do you multi blinders memo and solve?


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## Logiqx (Jan 23, 2017)

teacher77 said:


> Will I be in the list if I turn 40 three weeks after the comp ? ;-)



Your age is "fixed" throughout the year so whatever your age is on 1st Jan it is attributed to all of your competitions during the year. This is partly for data privacy reasons but also because it's also how age rankings work in many other sports.

If you're turning 40 this year then your results will start to appear from 2018 onwards.


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## mark49152 (Jan 23, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> What order do you multi blinders memo and solve?


I execute the same as 3BLD, edges first. Whereas in 3BLD I memo corners as images then edges as audio, for MBLD I memo both edges and corners as images in execution order.


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## newtonbase (Jan 23, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> I execute the same as 3BLD, edges first. Whereas in 3BLD I memo corners as images then edges as audio, for MBLD I memo both edges and corners as images in execution order.


That makes sense. I memo'd corners then edges for them all which was a bad idea. I'll try for another attempt tonight in a more sensible order.


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## mark49152 (Jan 23, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> That makes sense. I memo'd corners then edges for them all which was a bad idea. I'll try for another attempt tonight in a more sensible order.


I try to use very clear memo for parity as well, since I have a history of forgetting that .


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## pglewis (Jan 23, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> Whereas in 3BLD I memo corners as images then edges as audio, for MBLD I memo both edges and corners as images in execution order.



Does memo'ing as audio speed up a single 3-bld significantly over doing images for both?


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## newtonbase (Jan 23, 2017)

pglewis said:


> Does memo'ing as audio speed up a single 3-bld significantly over doing images for both?


I find it a lot faster. There's almost no thinking involved. Unfortunately it's too short term to use for more than edges for me. Maybe once I've learned comms and my execution is faster I might manage a whole cube with it.


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## mark49152 (Jan 23, 2017)

pglewis said:


> Does memo'ing as audio speed up a single 3-bld significantly over doing images for both?


For me right now, I don't think so, but eventually I believe it will. The reason is reviews. I still have to repeat my audio a few times to be sure it's stuck.


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## newtonbase (Jan 23, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> For me right now, I don't think so, but eventually I believe it will. The reason is reviews. I still have to repeat my audio a few times to be sure it's stuck.


I'll have to try and time some splits. On audio edges I tend to repeat after the first 4 words (8 letters) and then once again at the end. This can vary if it's not smooth. 
Just got 2/3 MBLD in a slow 28 mins. Forgot the end of the corner memo on cube 3 but there were edge errors too. I also cheated slightly with an inverse blink as I didn't put the 2nd and 3rd cubes down in a clear orientation after memo.


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## phreaker (Jan 23, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> I'll have to try and time some splits. On audio edges I tend to repeat after the first 4 words (8 letters) and then once again at the end. This can vary if it's not smooth.



Do you have an audio pairs list somewhere? I've been looking for one that has A in it for M2 use.


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## mark49152 (Jan 23, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> I'll have to try and time some splits. On audio edges I tend to repeat after the first 4 words (8 letters) and then once again at the end. This can vary if it's not smooth.


There's a lot of variation for me between good and bad audio. On a good memo I will repeat just once. On a bad memo it will take me more time to make it pronouncable and the extra time makes it harder to get audio to stick at all.

Nice progress on the MBLD.


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## newtonbase (Jan 23, 2017)

phreaker said:


> Do you have an audio pairs list somewhere? I've been looking for one that has A in it for M2 use.


@DeeDubb has a thread on the subject with a list linked in the first post. It's very good. https://www.speedsolving.com/forum/...ocus-on-phonetics-rather-than-spelling.51937/
I have very little written down for audio. 



mark49152 said:


> There's a lot of variation for me between good and bad audio. On a good memo I will repeat just once. On a bad memo it will take me more time to make it pronouncable and the extra time makes it harder to get audio to stick at all.
> 
> Nice progress on the MBLD.


Thanks. It's about time I push bigger memos if I'm ever to get successes in MBLD and 4BLD.


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## pglewis (Jan 24, 2017)

Today's diary entry concerns sighted bld execution practice. You know how if you repeat a word over and over it no longer seems like a word any more? It's like that, only with Y-Perm


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## pipkiksass (Jan 24, 2017)

So on Sunday night I was unfortunately rushed to hospital, and bad news is I'm still there... but good news is my wife just visited, and brought me some cubes!!! [emoji41][emoji41][emoji41]

Sadly there's no wifi, and mobile data is patchy at best, so looks like I'll be annoying the other patients with cubing for a while. Slow turning may be in order!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## cmhardw (Jan 24, 2017)

pipkiksass said:


> So on Sunday night I was unfortunately rushed to hospital, and bad news is I'm still there... but good news is my wife just visited, and brought me some cubes!!! [emoji41][emoji41][emoji41]
> 
> Sadly there's no wifi, and mobile data is patchy at best, so looks like I'll be annoying the other patients with cubing for a while. Slow turning may be in order!!
> 
> ...



Oh no! I hope you get better soon! Cubing certainly has healing properties, so that should help


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## phreaker (Jan 24, 2017)

pipkiksass said:


> So on Sunday night I was unfortunately rushed to hospital, and bad news is I'm still there... but good news is my wife just visited, and brought me some cubes!!! [emoji41][emoji41][emoji41]
> 
> Sadly there's no wifi, and mobile data is patchy at best, so looks like I'll be annoying the other patients with cubing for a while. Slow turning may be in order!!
> 
> ...



Hope you feel better soon man. 

As far as cubes and noise: Most hospitals have TVs... those things are loud. Cubes are pretty quiet, and I don't think anyone will begrudge you using your brain. It is so hard to stay sane in a hospital. My goal when I'm there (ugh) is never to turn on the TV.


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## pipkiksass (Jan 24, 2017)

phreaker said:


> Hope you feel better soon man.
> 
> As far as cubes and noise: Most hospitals have TVs... those things are loud. Cubes are pretty quiet, and I don't think anyone will begrudge you using your brain. It is so hard to stay sane in a hospital. My goal when I'm there (ugh) is never to turn on the TV.


Thanks very much.

Nobody has TVs on, most of the people on my ward are very sick and elderly, hopefully they won't begrudge me my sanity!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## phreaker (Jan 24, 2017)

pipkiksass said:


> Thanks very much.
> 
> Nobody has TVs on, most of the people on my ward are very sick and elderly, hopefully they won't begrudge me my sanity!!



I could see that being a major downer. Enjoy the cubes... if they clack too much, I suspect the staff will help you. They understand the great fight to keep yourself together in those beds. It is bad enough that I've telecommuted from the hospital before . (And before I took up cubing... now a days, I'd work on my BLD, or some other form of cubing thing, if my mind could take it.)


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## h2f (Jan 24, 2017)

pipkiksass said:


> So on Sunday night I was unfortunately rushed to hospital, and bad news is I'm still there... but good news is my wife just visited, and brought me some cubes!!! [emoji41][emoji41][emoji41]
> 
> Sadly there's no wifi, and mobile data is patchy at best, so looks like I'll be annoying the other patients with cubing for a while. Slow turning may be in order!!
> 
> ...



Best wishes in your recovery.


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## Logiqx (Jan 24, 2017)

pipkiksass said:


> So on Sunday night I was unfortunately rushed to hospital, and bad news is I'm still there... but good news is my wife just visited, and brought me some cubes!!! [emoji41][emoji41][emoji41]
> 
> Sadly there's no wifi, and mobile data is patchy at best, so looks like I'll be annoying the other patients with cubing for a while. Slow turning may be in order!!
> 
> ...


Get well soon. Glad you've got some cubes now!

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk


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## mark49152 (Jan 24, 2017)

Hope you get well and out of there soon @pipkiksass ...


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## mafergut (Jan 24, 2017)

My best wishes for your recovery, @pipkiksass
Slow turning might be a good idea


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## newtonbase (Jan 24, 2017)

Sorry to hear you're not well @pipkiksass. 
@phreaker's suggestion of 3BLD is ideal if you need to be quiet. You can practice tracing and memo with just a few turns now and then.


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## kbrune (Jan 24, 2017)

@pipkiksass 
Wish you a speedy recovery! I spent a week in a hospital back in my teens. Wish I had been introduced the cube then!

@Jason Green 
I do get stressed with cubing. Pushing myself and imposing too many expectations on progress. But the joy I get out of cubing overwhelms the pressure I out on myself. Interesting thought though. Stress management is on my radar so I'll keep that in mind.

I've barely practiced in the last week and headaches have been increasing in frequency. I've got an appointment to have my eyes checked in 2 days.


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## pipkiksass (Jan 24, 2017)

Thanks for the good wishes all. Ironically, I'm in the best shape I've been in in over a year - had a spot of cancer, but that cleared right up, been in remission for 2 months, but now I catch a cold and end up in hospital!!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## pglewis (Jan 24, 2017)

Glad to see you're in good spirits, @pipkiksass, here's to a speedy recovery!


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## Jason Green (Jan 25, 2017)

pipkiksass said:


> Thanks for the good wishes all. Ironically, I'm in the best shape I've been in in over a year - had a spot of cancer, but that cleared right up, been in remission for 2 months, but now I catch a cold and end up in hospital!!!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Hope you get well soon! I was in the hospital with an arm infection last January and barely touched a cube I just slept. 

I started learning a couple of OH PLLs tonight. Going to try and get the Z and E perms down tonight. Will see if I use then enough to not forget!


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## h2f (Jan 25, 2017)

Jason Green said:


> I started learning a couple of OH PLLs tonight. Going to try and get the Z and E perms down tonight. Will see if I use then enough to not forget!



I've learnt plenty of PLLs to OH. For OLLs I use the ones from TH but some of them are hard to do, so I do it 2look. And some need to be mirrored. Anyway - new algs help a lot getting faster.


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## JohnnyReggae (Jan 25, 2017)

pipkiksass said:


> So on Sunday night I was unfortunately rushed to hospital, and bad news is I'm still there... but good news is my wife just visited, and brought me some cubes!!! [emoji41][emoji41][emoji41]
> 
> Sadly there's no wifi, and mobile data is patchy at best, so looks like I'll be annoying the other patients with cubing for a while. Slow turning may be in order!!
> 
> ...


I hope you have a speedy recovery. Enjoy the cubing while dealing with the mundane of lying in bed in hospital


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## JanW (Jan 25, 2017)

Get well soon @pipkiksass!

I haven't posted much lately. Not much to report. Progress has stagnated again this year when I've had less time to solve. Only 650 solves so far this year, mean is a lousy 24.39. I learned a lot of OLLs at once end of last year, now I keep mixing them up when I don't get enough solves in to keep them fresh in memory. I know a bit over 40 OLLs now. Maybe 5-6 to go, then I'd know all but the dot cases. I really should get to work on those and then just drill drill drill.

A couple of weeks before Christmas I placed two orders with cubezz on consecutive days, which shipped on consecutive days from China. The first package arrived 4 weeks ago, the second finally arrived today. Seems like quite big variance on shipping times! Anyway, now I finally have the Valk 3!! First impression... not very impressed. I need to play around with tensions a bit to see if I can make it any better. Out of the box it doesn't fit my turning style at all. It is super tight, that's probably the reason.

One good thing came out of the Valk already, though. While playing around with it I came across the nice F2L alg F' R U R' U' R' F R. I looked up to see if this alg is in algdb (the inverse is) and seeing the F2L page I realized how inefficient my current F2L algs are. This case, for example, I still solve with the beginners method, which involves a cube rotation and all. Once I'm done with OLL, I should have a look through all the different F2L cases to find where I can improve.


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## Bemis (Jan 25, 2017)

Hello, all. 37 y/o cuber here. Started about 2 weeks ago. I didn't run a timer until I could solve it without looking at an alg list and was running ao5 around 2:34 and was just starting F2L at that time. I'm now solid with all my 2 Look OLL and I'm starting to get down to ao5 around 1:14. Pfew! I still have a long ways to go, but I'm having a blast!


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## Logiqx (Jan 25, 2017)

Welcome to the thread. We all started in the same place and you'll plenty of friendly support from the regulars. Happy cubing!

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk


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## One Wheel (Jan 25, 2017)

Bemis said:


> Hello, all. 37 y/o cuber here. Started about 2 weeks ago. I didn't run a timer until I could solve it without looking at an alg list and was running ao5 around 2:34 and was just starting F2L at that time. I'm now solid with all my 2 Look OLL and I'm starting to get down to ao5 around 1:14. Pfew! I still have a long ways to go, but I'm having a blast!



That's a very nice start! I think at 2 weeks in I was still using lbl and running about 30 minutes. In almost two years since I'm down to about 35 seconds, but most people seem to make better progress than I do.


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## Shaky Hands (Jan 25, 2017)

It's been a while since I last posted here. I've had a busy time lately "IRL" but cubing-wise I've mostly been practicing 7x7 and 3BLD.

7x7: The Qiyi 7x7 has given me a PB single and average in relatively short order. I'm finding that my L2C is worse than I realised it to be and should probably try to dedicate some specific practice to that particular part of the solve. 6x6 can be forgiving of a sloppy L2C in ways that 7x7 just isn't. Quick shout-out @bubbagrub - I have a well broken-in stickerless Moyu 7x7 GT going spare now if you're after one to replace your "trendy" V-Cube. Or @newtonbase or anyone else I'm likely to run into soon.

3BLD: This is coming along well for me. Success rate is going up. I have a fully memorised set of letter pairs for A[x], B[x], C[x] and D[x] and am building up others when doing other solves. The number of times I forget to reorientate the cube back to its starting position is reducing too. I think going into the last comp I reckoned I had about 10% chance of a success. Would like to get that to 40% by the next comp. Nothing happens overnight though and it's about time I stepped up my game with BLD and it's been good to put in some dedicated practice on it. @pglewis & @mark49152 - thanks for sharing links to those word lists. There are some pairs that I know I struggle on and need to improve. Those resources will no doubt help.

Next up for me will be relearning SQ1 with an aim to record a single at the next comp. The lack of SQ1 at the previous UK comp has meant I've lost the knowledge I'd gained of it in December, but maybe I can tap into some remnants of it lurking deep in the recess of my brain.

Some great PB's going around. Always encouraging to see the improvements people are making and the videos that are shared. I do get around to seeing them all at some point.

@kbrune - hope you manage to overcome your headaches and @pipkiksass - sorry to hear you've been in hospital, here's hoping you make a full and speedy recovery and I'm glad your wife brought your cubes to you. Thoughts are with you both.



Selkie said:


> All this talk of BLD had persuaded me to rekindle the project that never got off the ground over Christmas due to the redundancy. Restarted on my letter pair list and will do some sighted solves today.



Had much luck Chris?



teacher77 said:


> However, the cross on the bottom is still a huge fail. I miss it a good third of the times.



... yet you succeed 2 times out of 3 and that will become 3 times out of 4 then 4 times out of 5 and so on. You'll get there, I'm sure. I switched to cross-on-bottom at the same point that I switched from LBL to F2L which I think made the changeover harder for me, but I was glad when I'd fully embedded the knowledge. Good luck.



Bemis said:


> Hello, all. 37 y/o cuber here. Started about 2 weeks ago. I didn't run a timer until I could solve it without looking at an alg list and was running ao5 around 2:34 and was just starting F2L at that time. I'm now solid with all my 2 Look OLL and I'm starting to get down to ao5 around 1:14. Pfew! I still have a long ways to go, but I'm having a blast!



Hi and welcome. The early times of cubing are the times when you'll have the biggest relative improvements, so enjoy it. I'm sure you'll improve a lot with the amount of info there is on these forums as well as youtube. Do you have any competitions in your area?


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## Bemis (Jan 25, 2017)

Shaky Hands said:


> Hi and welcome. The early times of cubing are the times when you'll have the biggest relative improvements, so enjoy it. I'm sure you'll improve a lot with the amount of info there is on these forums as well as youtube. Do you have any competitions in your area?



Thanks for the welcome! So many great videos and tips!

We have a competition locally on campus, one block from my office, at the end of Feb. Looking forward to it!


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## Shaky Hands (Jan 25, 2017)

Bemis said:


> Thanks for the welcome! So many great videos and tips!
> 
> We have a competition locally on campus, one block from my office, at the end of Feb. Looking forward to it!



Definitely worth going. Enter all the events you can solve that you think you can make the hard cutoff for. And beyond that, meet some people and don't worry about your times. As others will say, a first comp is just about setting an initial marker to improve against. Have fun and good luck.


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## h2f (Jan 25, 2017)

JanW said:


> Only 650 solves so far this year, mean is a lousy 24.39.



More than me. I've done around 300. Not more.


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## Logiqx (Jan 25, 2017)

chtiger said:


> Wait for me, jk



Updated!


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## Logiqx (Jan 25, 2017)

I haven't had a 3x3 PB since April last year so I've been practicing regularly for a couple of weeks.

Tonight's train was slow so I got some extra solve time and look what happened during that time!

14.20 average of 5. Yay!

It's somewhere in this lot... ignore the inspection time as it includes scrambling and giving fellow passengers a break from the noise.

#lookahead #finally

Edit: All full step solves but easy pairs.

3. 15.809 (Inspection: 43.676) Date: 2017-01-25 18:24:35
U F2 B L' U' R U2 F' D' R2 U2 D' F2 U2 F2 L2 F2 L2 R2 F U' F' L B2 F'

4. 15.482 (Inspection: 1:02.177) Date: 2017-01-25 18:23:51
R2 B' R2 L' B' L2 B2 U' L U B' U' B2 D2 F R' L' U2 B' U' B L R F L

5. 13.569 (Inspection: 1:01.218) Date: 2017-01-25 18:22:46
F' R' L2 F' D2 L B' L2 B U2 L R D U F R2 D' B' F' D B2 F2 R F' B

6. 15.505 (Inspection: 54.971) Date: 2017-01-25 18:21:01
D2 B2 D' U' F' R U2 L' B' R B' L R U' R2 D' B' R2 F R' B2 L' R B2 D2

7. 16.617 (Inspection: 49.412) Date: 2017-01-25 18:19:21
L2 R F' U2 F2 L D' R2 D2 B D2 B' D' F2 L2 F2 R2 F2 B' D2 F U2 D' R2 D

8. 11.999 (Inspection: 39.421) Date: 2017-01-25 18:18:27
D2 L' R U R' F L2 F' B' L' U B D' U' F D F L R2 D2 R U2 R L2 U

9. 13.549 (Inspection: 1:06.499) Date: 2017-01-25 18:17:49
B' L R2 U F2 U2 L2 D L B2 U R L D2 F U' R B2 D' L2 R U' B R2 U'

10. 15.929 (Inspection: 35.391) Date: 2017-01-25 18:16:45
U' L2 F D' F2 U' D R2 U' F2 B2 D' L2 F2 B' U D F L B' F2 L2 B2 U B'


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## mafergut (Jan 25, 2017)

@Bemis Welcome to the thread! I'm sure you will improve soon... and then you will start buying other puzzles, like 2x2, 4x4 and up, Megaminx... This hobby is a neverending fun


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## chtiger (Jan 25, 2017)

Bemis said:


> We have a competition locally on campus, one block from my office, at the end of Feb. Looking forward to it!


I usually go to the Athens comps, but not going to that one. I'll probably see you there eventually.


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## pglewis (Jan 25, 2017)

Shaky Hands said:


> Had much luck Chris?



Yeah, I'd nearly forgotten about that post... I wasn't sure if @Selkie hasn't done blind before or is picking it back up after hiatus or something. 

@Logiqx: nice, at this rate sup 15s are just going to prompt a head-desk before long. 

@Bemis: Welcome! I'm not far ahead of you, especially at the rate you're improving. Last summer I was struggling to get under 1 min consistently and now I shrug at anything over :35 and have recently taken on blindfold solving. These folks are a bad influence .


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## pipkiksass (Jan 25, 2017)

Welcome @Bemis, very nice average @Logiqx.

I had an eventful day (in hospital) - my temperature hit an all time high and loads of other crazy shizzle, so I'm on a drip and tramadol, which is nice!

Marty has stickerless WuQues back in stock, so I ordered one. Also thought I'd try his .5k lube, and treated myself to a spare stickerless Valk, which I'm going to M.

In other news, I'm borderline neutropenic, so I've been moved to a private room. Yay, more cubing. However it turns out executing OLL/PLL algs with a canulla sticking out of your right hand is VERY tricky!!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Logiqx (Jan 25, 2017)

pipkiksass said:


> Welcome @Bemis, very nice average @Logiqx.
> 
> I had an eventful day (in hospital) - my temperature hit an all time high and loads of other crazy shizzle, so I'm on a drip and tramadol, which is nice!
> 
> ...



Yes, I noticed. I have stickerless QiYi 4+5+6+7 on the way!

It is the perfect time for you to start doing OH... lefty of course.


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## pipkiksass (Jan 25, 2017)

Logiqx said:


> Yes, I noticed. I have stickerless QiYi 4+5+6+7 on the way!
> 
> It is the perfect time for you to start doing OH... lefty of course.



Good shout!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## dskids (Jan 25, 2017)

Hey guys, 31 y/o cuber here... started a little over a year ago. I'm going to my first competition in early March. I was wondering if anyone had advice for a first timer, particularly as it pertains to being one of the older participants there?

Really excited for this thing... going to be competing in 2x2, 3x3, 4x4, and possibly pyraminx. Pyraminx cutoff is really generous at about 35 seconds, but I still don't know all the last 2-3 edge cycle algs and stuff. Still trying to get consistently below the hard cutoff for 4x4. I'm also having a great time eliciting eye rolls from my wife when I refer to my practice time as "training" .

Anyway, this seems like a nice thread... can't believe I haven't stopped by yet!


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## Logiqx (Jan 25, 2017)

@dskids - welcome

Treat your first comp as a learning experience. I'm sure it will be the first of many comps!

It's great to see so many people in one place who enjoy the same hobby. I think you'll feel very welcome despite being somewhat older than the average competitor. Think of yourself as a 16 year old with 15 years of extra experience. 

You're not the only one with another half who isn't entirely behind cubing. Haha


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## kbrune (Jan 25, 2017)

Bemis said:


> Hello, all. 37 y/o cuber here. Started about 2 weeks ago. I didn't run a timer until I could solve it without looking at an alg list and was running ao5 around 2:34 and was just starting F2L at that time. I'm now solid with all my 2 Look OLL and I'm starting to get down to ao5 around 1:14. Pfew! I still have a long ways to go, but I'm having a blast!





dskids said:


> Hey guys, 31 y/o cuber here... started a little over a year ago. I'm going to my first competition in early March. I was wondering if anyone had advice for a first timer, particularly as it pertains to being one of the older participants there?
> 
> I'm also having a great time eliciting eye rolls from my wife when I refer to my practice time as "training" .



Welcome guys! 

@dskids 
I'm sure my wife will eventually lose the ability to move her eyes considering how often they roll around when I talk cubing lol what are your times like?

Very true @pglewis. Bad influences on every page!


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## newtonbase (Jan 25, 2017)

Welcome @Bemis and @dskids 

2 attempts at MBLD today. 1/3 on each. Failures were missed 1 edge cycle, undid 1 setup the wrong way, memo'd very last letter as B not C and then an M' instead of an M2 so nothing awful. I also switched my rooms around as the order was right to left but I prefer to lay out my cubes left to right. 
I've also decided to relearn U2 for 4BLD but with Ubl as my buffer but I need to come up my own algs as I can only find them for Ubr. Unless anyone has anything?


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## kbrune (Jan 25, 2017)

@newtonbase 

I've been meaning to learn 4bld. I've watched Noah's tutorial a while back but don't remember any of it. Is Ubl the north/west center on U?


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## mark49152 (Jan 26, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> I've also decided to relearn U2 for 4BLD but with Ubl as my buffer but I need to come up my own algs as I can only find them for Ubr. Unless anyone has anything?


Why? Just curious.

For algs you could mirror the Ubr ones. I'm not sure which ones you're having trouble with, but all the U2 algs I can think of are easy to understand and therefore mirror.


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## newtonbase (Jan 26, 2017)

kbrune said:


> @newtonbase
> 
> I've been meaning to learn 4bld. I've watched Noah's tutorial a while back but don't remember any of it. Is Ubl the north/west center on U?


Yes, that's it. I recommend you have a look at Corey Sakowski's YouTube series too. It's very good.


mark49152 said:


> Why? Just curious.
> 
> For algs you could mirror the Ubr ones. I'm not sure which ones you're having trouble with, but all the U2 algs I can think of are easy to understand and therefore mirror.


I find Ubl more comfortable for comms and U2 is meant to be just a back up for that. It's only really the D face algs I need to replicate as the U face ones tend to be easier with comms. I'll sort them on my lunch break tomorrow. I found a couple of useful bits on some old notes I'd made from one of Ollie's videos.


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## JohnnyReggae (Jan 26, 2017)

JanW said:


> Get well soon @pipkiksass!
> Anyway, now I finally have the Valk 3!! First impression... not very impressed. I need to play around with tensions a bit to see if I can make it any better. Out of the box it doesn't fit my turning style at all. It is super tight, that's probably the reason.


I must say that I was not initially impressed with the Valk and wondered why I actually bought it. Now however I do think it's a great cube. Not the best which I believe is the GAN Air, but I do use the Valk for OH primarily because it is more stable for OH than the Air and the slight smaller size, although not much, is noticeable.


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## h2f (Jan 26, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> I find Ubl more comfortable for comms and U2 is meant to be just a back up for that. It's only really the D face algs I need to replicate as the U face ones tend to be easier with comms. I'll sort them on my lunch break tomorrow. I found a couple of useful bits on some old notes I'd made from one of Ollie's videos.



Mark, you dont need backup algs for center comms. I went to 3style centers just after few months with U2. Once you understand how they work they are easy to work. D face algs are always interechange with Ubl and for cycle Ubl-Dfr- or Ubl-Dbl- you can add easy setup D/D' or U/U'. Only the one alg is special: Ubl-Ufr-Dfr which you can do with easy alg from Ollie's list or with 3 move setup.


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## pipkiksass (Jan 26, 2017)

JohnnyReggae said:


> I must say that I was not initially impressed with the Valk and wondered why I actually bought it. Now however I do think it's a great cube. Not the best which I believe is the GAN Air, but I do use the Valk for OH primarily because it is more stable for OH than the Air and the slight smaller size, although not much, is noticeable.



This will be my 3rd Valk, completely love it (although I haven't tried a Gans Air). The Valk was my first purchase after returning to cubing after a 2 year hiatus, was previously using a Weilong V2. Go back to a Weilong V2 for a while, then try the Valk again, you'll be blown away!!! [emoji6] 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## mark49152 (Jan 26, 2017)

h2f said:


> Mark, you dont need backup algs for center comms. I went to 3style centers just after few months with U2. Once you understand how they work they are easy to work. D face algs are always interechange with Ubl and for cycle Ubl-Dfr- or Ubl-Dbl- you can add easy setup D/D' or U/U'. Only the one alg is special: Ubl-Ufr-Dfr which you can do with easy alg from Ollie's list or with 3 move setup.


Yeah usually I will set up a D face target to Ufl (Ubr buffer) and do a comm with U2 exchange, advanced M2 style. The only exception is where the D face target is adjacent to U face target, in which case I set up to a comm with l2 exchange.


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## h2f (Jan 26, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> Yeah usually I will set up a D face target to Ufl (Ubr buffer) and do a comm with U2 exchange, advanced M2 style. The only exception is where the D face target is adjacent to U face target, in which case I set up to a comm with l2 exchange.



I didnt know you do centers with comms, Mark.


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## phreaker (Jan 26, 2017)

JohnnyReggae said:


> I must say that I was not initially impressed with the Valk and wondered why I actually bought it. Now however I do think it's a great cube. Not the best which I believe is the GAN Air, but I do use the Valk for OH primarily because it is more stable for OH than the Air and the slight smaller size, although not much, is noticeable.



I like the Valk because near the "edge" of performance on corner cutting etc, it gives me a bit of feedback telling me, "You know, I didn't want to do that.". The Gan AIR doesn't, it just stops you. Especially in reverse.

Until I magnetized one of my Valks, I had corner twisting issues... those went away, and now I really like the cube. I have one of the Cubicle 356 AIR UMs on order, I'm very curious as to what I'll think of that.


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## JanW (Jan 26, 2017)

I keep loosening up the Valk more and more. It gets better, but I'm still not entirely convinced by the cube. Somehow it feels less forgiving and requires more accurate turning than the MoJue M3 I used previously. Though maybe this is a sign that my turning is sloppy and it would do me good to practice with a cube that requires better accuracy.


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## phreaker (Jan 26, 2017)

JanW said:


> I keep loosening up the Valk more and more. It gets better, but I'm still not entirely convinced by the cube. Somehow it feels less forgiving and requires more accurate turning than the MoJue M3 I used previously. Though maybe this is a sign that my turning is sloppy and it would do me good to practice with a cube that requires better accuracy.



My Valks are very loose. I corner twist the non-magnetic one OH, pretty regularly, it is that loose. I solve OH... so my views on cubes will always be a bit different.


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## phreaker (Jan 26, 2017)

dskids said:


> I agree that it's better on slightly loose tensions. I tightened mine for more stability and it's a little catchier, which is to be expected I guess. I'm hoping I can loosen it up again once I put magnets in.
> 
> Actually the big problem I have with mine is keeping it controllable. No matter how much heavy lube I put in it just wants to be super light and fast. I'm hoping the added weight and pull of the magnets also helps in that department as well.



I have a magnetic valk... (N42/N44 strength) I had it so loose it was pushing off the endcaps . I tightened it up a bit.. and it is perfect for me. Dropped my PBs, quite a bit.


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## dskids (Jan 26, 2017)

kbrune said:


> I'm sure my wife will eventually lose the ability to move her eyes considering how often they roll around when I talk cubing lol what are your times like?


Hahaha, yep same here! My 3x3 times are in my sig, but I am expecting to be substantially higher at the comp. My goals are a sub-25 single and sub-30 average. For 4x4 I average just under 2:00 (which happens to be the hard cutoff), so my goal there is just to complete all my solves. My 2x2 average is just under 10 sec so a 10-sec average and sub-6 single would be nice. I don't really have times for pyraminx because I'm still learning it. Not really putting in much effort there to be honest.



JanW said:


> I keep loosening up the Valk more and more. It gets better, but I'm still not entirely convinced by the cube.


I agree that it's better on slightly loose tensions. I tightened mine for more stability and it's a little catchier, which is to be expected I guess. I'm hoping I can loosen it up again once I put magnets in.

Actually the big problem I have with mine is keeping it controllable. No matter how much heavy lube I put in it just wants to be super light and fast. I'm hoping the added weight and pull of the magnets also helps in that department as well.

The thing that really grinds my gears though is I stupidly bought one of the mint colored SE Valks (when I should've just bought another black one or a stickerless). My recognition on it is terrible but the turning is perfect and it just sits there unused.


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## newtonbase (Jan 26, 2017)

h2f said:


> I didnt know you do centers with comms, Mark.


I'm still learning but they are relatively easy to work out. I've still not attampted a full solve.

In a moment of madness I did a 4 cube MBLD attempt on my lunch break and it was a disaster. I got parts of my cubes confused with others and completely forgot other parts. The only one I got right was my 3BLD. I'll go back to 3 until I get a success.


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## Logiqx (Jan 26, 2017)

I was about to start a video session when a couple of deliveries arrived from The Puzzle Store.

Since the camera was ready to go, I decided to record an unboxing of my new toys.

QiYi WuQue 4x4x4 + QiYi WuShuang 5x5x5
QiYi WuHua 6x6x6 + QiYi WuJi 7x7x7
MoYu Magnetic Skewb + MoYu Magnetic Pyraminx

I'm pretty rubbish at unboxings but here is the link anyway... edited to 6 minutes.


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## mark49152 (Jan 26, 2017)

h2f said:


> I didnt know you do centers with comms, Mark.


I don't really. I use advanced U2 for most cases, which is comms I guess, but restricted to U2 interchange. Then I know a single extra comm with l2 interchange for adjacent U&D targets. That's enough to make U2 pretty efficient. I am trying to learn some other comms, but not sweating it because generally they won't save me much time over advanced U2. Why waste time trying to shave 5 seconds off centre execution when memo still takes me 3 minutes?


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## h2f (Jan 26, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> Why waste time trying to shave 5 seconds off centre execution when memo still takes me 3 minutes?



 Because one day your memo will take a single minute.


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## mark49152 (Jan 26, 2017)

h2f said:


> Because one day your memo will take a single minute.


Only if I prioritise working on memo


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## mafergut (Jan 26, 2017)

@Logiqx Nice unboxing! You have bested my latest purchase in "Qiyiness". I just got 4x4, 5x5 and 6x6, you went all the way up to 7x7. I am now waiting for a separate order with the 7x7 though 

From your unboxing the WuQue 4x4 seems a bit sluggish, just like mine and very different from the one, e.g. @SpeedCubeReview unboxed, which felt so fast and loose. Maybe it's just a difference in out-of-the-box tensions but mine already popped 3 times at my current tensions so not sure I would want to loosen it more.


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## kbrune (Jan 26, 2017)

@mark49152 @h2f @newtonbase
Not sure who else knows 4bld

Trying out some 4bld sighted solves for the first time. How do you manage to memo edges without getting lost? Seems confusing. Mind you I'm going off a tutorial that was written 8 years ago now lol
Didn't have patience to wait for WiFi and video at home.

Is typical buffer DFr? And do you use a system to keep edge targets organized. Having 2 of each is throwing me off. All the tutorial is saying is "follow targets till you have them all". Easier said then done! Lol


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## mark49152 (Jan 26, 2017)

@kbrune: Yes wings are tricky because there are a lot of targets and if you hit the end of a cycle with only two or three targets left, it sometimes takes some time to find the ones left. I'm not aware of any magic technique to make it easy.


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## h2f (Jan 26, 2017)

kbrune said:


> Is typical buffer DFr? And do you use a system to keep edge targets organized. Having 2 of each is throwing me off. All the tutorial is saying is "follow targets till you have them all". Easier said then done! Lol



I think it's a matter of practice and good system. The system comes with practice and everyone has its own way of doing. If I cant find missed wing I do review of memo watching the one pair of wings (all on U layer) and searching if theres a word in memo with letter for every wing. Mind that my first attempts were around 30 minutes and 20 minutes memo or longer. Touching wings also helps a lot.


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## JanW (Jan 26, 2017)

I just learned 4 more OLL cases and now I know all but the dots! The last ten or so that I've learned are still a bit muddy in my mind. I'll need lots of solves to get used to them. But at least now I don't need to spend time anymore asking myself whether it's a case I know or not. In my experience, this should help a lot.


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## pglewis (Jan 27, 2017)

pipkiksass said:


> I had an eventful day (in hospital) - my temperature hit an all time high and loads of other crazy shizzle ...



You are seriously due for a spot of luck, I call an LL skip with the timer running on the way. Hope you've got this bug on the ropes now. 



dskids said:


> Hey guys, 31 y/o cuber here... started a little over a year ago. I'm going to my first competition in early March. I was wondering if anyone had advice for a first timer, particularly as it pertains to being one of the older participants there?



Active over-30s and over-40s are more rare but there's a group kicking around, welcome! 

I was mostly a deer in headlights at my first comp late last summer but I only had the vaguest idea of what to expect (hadn't been on the forums or discovered this thread until a week or three later). Definitely read up on the regulations for all events you want to compete or volunteer to judge in-- it's an easy read IMO-- and watch the competition intro video, if you haven't yet. 

I've been to two comps now and there might have been an initial surprised look or two to see me wearing a lanyard but it has been a very supportive environment IME. Once you sit down to practice you're all speaking the same language and share the same sort of goals and frustrations, I felt I was alongside peers at the practice table regardless of the ages. I appear to be on an island in my particular region, though. Seems like the UK contingent sometimes rolls into comp with a half dozen or more gray hairs... folks at comps there would likely do a double-take if they were _missing_. 



dskids said:


> Actually the big problem I have with mine is keeping it controllable. No matter how much heavy lube I put in it just wants to be super light and fast. I'm hoping the added weight and pull of the magnets also helps in that department as well.



We need to trade Valks. Both my black one and stickerless became significantly more sluggish after only a couple weeks' use. The black one was so bad it was paperweight status for a bit until I got around to breaking it down and wiping most of the lube out. I suspect it was just too much core lube that leaked out and into the piece internals. Neither is as fast as when it was new but I'm afraid of putting anything besides Maru in 'em for fear of gumming up worse. With such widely varying reports I'm starting to wonder if it just doesn't like Silk specifically, which has been my go-to.


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## JohnnyReggae (Jan 27, 2017)

mafergut said:


> @Logiqx Nice unboxing! You have bested my latest purchase in "Qiyiness". I just got 4x4, 5x5 and 6x6, you went all the way up to 7x7. I am now waiting for a separate order with the 7x7 though
> 
> From your unboxing the WuQue 4x4 seems a bit sluggish, just like mine and very different from the one, e.g. @SpeedCubeReview unboxed, which felt so fast and loose. Maybe it's just a difference in out-of-the-box tensions but mine already popped 3 times at my current tensions so not sure I would want to loosen it more.


I've also recently ordered a bunch of QiYicubes 3x3,4x4,5x5,6x6  ... skipped on the 7x7 as it was quite pricey and I don't do 7x7 enough to warrant buying another one when my Aofu works reasonably well.

They have arrived in the country, however our postal service is slow ... so I may still only get them in a month's time :-(


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## pipkiksass (Jan 27, 2017)

JanW said:


> I just learned 4 more OLL cases and now I know all but the dots! The last ten or so that I've learned are still a bit muddy in my mind. I'll need lots of solves to get used to them. But at least now I don't need to spend time anymore asking myself whether it's a case I know or not. In my experience, this should help a lot.



It was my quest to learn my remaining OLLs by the end of January... didn't bank on spending a week in hospital without my alg sheets (and also being seriously ill, not sure which is worse!?).


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Logiqx (Jan 27, 2017)

mafergut said:


> @Logiqx Nice unboxing! You have bested my latest purchase in "Qiyiness". I just got 4x4, 5x5 and 6x6, you went all the way up to 7x7. I am now waiting for a separate order with the 7x7 though
> 
> From your unboxing the WuQue 4x4 seems a bit sluggish, just like mine and very different from the one, e.g. @SpeedCubeReview unboxed, which felt so fast and loose. Maybe it's just a difference in out-of-the-box tensions but mine already popped 3 times at my current tensions so not sure I would want to loosen it more.



After doing a few dozen solves on my black WuQue, I loosened all of the screws by 90 degrees and had a nasty pop two solves later (internals and externals). After re-assembling, I put the tensions back to where they started and it's shown no signs of popping but there is probably a sweet spot somewhere between the two settings.

My new stickerless is starting to feel quite nice after the first 4 or 5 solves. It feels very dry so it probably needs some lube but I think it will be great after a few hundred solves.



pipkiksass said:


> It was my quest to learn my remaining OLLs by the end of January... didn't bank on spending a week in hospital without my alg sheets (and also being seriously ill, not sure which is worse!?).
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



That's a pain but don't forget you can always look them up online if you're desperate.

@JanW - Good work with your OLL progress. Keep pushing and learn those dot cases!


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## mafergut (Jan 27, 2017)

I've done like 500 solves on my WuQue and it still feels slow and dry. But it's super stable. I would gladly trade off a bit of that stability for lighter to turn layers.

Sent from my Nexus 4 with Tapatalk


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## JanW (Jan 27, 2017)

pipkiksass said:


> It was my quest to learn my remaining OLLs by the end of January... didn't bank on spending a week in hospital without my alg sheets (and also being seriously ill, not sure which is worse!?).


I think you were ahead of me in the process earlier, so I'm sure you'll finish it quickly once you get a chance. Since you probably have extra time on your hands in the hospital, you can always write new alg sheets. 


Logiqx said:


> @JanW - Good work with your OLL progress. Keep pushing and learn those dot cases!


I had actually planned to wait with the dot cases. Mostly to get to use the other ones I've just learned more frequently for a while. Also because I already aim at avoiding dot cases during F2L. Would it be better to keep going and learn them immediately?


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## pipkiksass (Jan 27, 2017)

Logiqx said:


> That's a pain but don't forget you can always look them up online if you're desperate.



Spent AGES poring over my favourite alg sites (yours included) and alg.db finding algs that felt right for me, then condensed them into your alg sheet, changed AUF for the images and removed all the cases I didn't need. Wish it were so simple! 

In other news, may have a stickerless WuQue delivered to the hospital (!) tomorrow. Interesting to see how mine compares. I find my Yuxin Blue just a little too flexy, doesn't quite hold cuboid shape well, and turning inner layers independently is tricky, making PLL parity a PITA. Can't wait to try it.

Also 14.75 3x3 single with tubes in both arms.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Logiqx (Jan 27, 2017)

mafergut said:


> I've done like 500 solves on my WuQue and it still feels slow and dry. But it's super stable. I would gladly trade off a bit of that stability for lighter to turn layers.
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 4 with Tapatalk



I've just done 30 timed solves with my sticker-less WuQue and it is now my favourite 4x4. It's gotten really light to turn and really fast. The outer layers are really fast (I glanced at the timer during a solve prior to 3x3 stage and it was 12 seconds for F2L + OLL + PLL) but the inner layers are still more than fine for me. I am sure that it will be amazing with some lube.



JanW said:


> I had actually planned to wait with the dot cases. Mostly to get to use the other ones I've just learned more frequently for a while. Also because I already aim at avoiding dot cases during F2L. Would it be better to keep going and learn them immediately?



My advice would be to keep learning at the rate you are doing so already. The dot cases are amongst the OLLs where a one-look alg is most beneficial and the dots are only worth avoiding during an R U' R' style insertion (e.g. doing R' F R F' instead). If you need to end with an R U R' style insertion then you are better off doing the standard insertion and the dot case. It's also worth mentioning that in the frenzy of a full-speed solve, you'll often miss the opportunity to skip the dot case.


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## Logiqx (Jan 27, 2017)

I've only just spotted the WCA Scores App for Android.

I'll be stalking a lot of the regulars on this thread from now on.

I wonder when I'll get the first PB notification.


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## Bemis (Jan 27, 2017)

Thanks for all the warm welcomes. Cross times have improved and now I'm focused on F2L tricks. Wrapped my head around the keyhole method and it's much better than what I was doing for those cases! Times fluctuate as I introduced new techniques, but I expect that and they come back down with practice!


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## mafergut (Jan 27, 2017)

Then I must have gotten one of the defective mold ones. What colour are the internals of yours? Mine are white

Sent from my Nexus 4 with Tapatalk


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## newtonbase (Jan 27, 2017)

1/2 MBLD in 6:24. Think I made a memo error on corners of cube 2 but very pleased with the time.


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## Logiqx (Jan 27, 2017)

mafergut said:


> Then I must have gotten one of the defective mold ones. What colour are the internals of yours? Mine are white
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 4 with Tapatalk



Green


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## kbrune (Jan 27, 2017)

@mark49152 @h2f @newtonbase

Feeling pretty dumb. I can't seem to wrap my mind around how to assign letters to wings properly. I've looked for an image of a lettered 4x4 as reference but can't seem to find one. You guys know of any pictures?

EDIT:
I think I've somewhat figured it out. Just need clarification. Am I right to say that only half of the wing stickers will have assigned letters?


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## phreaker (Jan 27, 2017)

kbrune said:


> @mark49152 @h2f @newtonbase
> 
> Feeling pretty dumb. I can't seem to wrap my mind around how to assign letters to wings properly. I've looked for an image of a lettered 4x4 as reference but can't seem to find one. You guys know of any pictures?
> 
> ...


https://www.speedsolving.com/wiki/index.php/Speffz

I've never done 4BLD. But it looks pretty clear what the scheme intends.


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## newtonbase (Jan 27, 2017)

kbrune said:


> @mark49152 @h2f @newtonbase
> 
> Feeling pretty dumb. I can't seem to wrap my mind around how to assign letters to wings properly. I've looked for an image of a lettered 4x4 as reference but can't seem to find one. You guys know of any pictures?


I have to trace my finger clockwise around the face to make sure I get the 2nd one in the pair. With a bit more practice I'm sure I'll get the hang of doing it by sight.


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## pipkiksass (Jan 27, 2017)

Was going to post this in the achievements thread, but I'M FINALLY BEING DISCHARGED FROM HOSPITAL! After 6 verrrry long days, can't wait to see my cubes again.

And family.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## kbrune (Jan 27, 2017)

pipkiksass said:


> Was going to post this in the achievements thread, but I'M FINALLY BEING DISCHARGED FROM HOSPITAL! After 6 verrrry long days, can't wait to see my cubes again.
> 
> And family.
> 
> ...



Congrats! Glad you're out! And that you're priorities are straight. Cubes THEN family lol


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## newtonbase (Jan 27, 2017)

pipkiksass said:


> Was going to post this in the achievements thread, but I'M FINALLY BEING DISCHARGED FROM HOSPITAL! After 6 verrrry long days, can't wait to see my cubes again.
> 
> And family.
> 
> ...


Glad to hear you're getting out.


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## kbrune (Jan 27, 2017)

phreaker said:


> https://www.speedsolving.com/wiki/index.php/Speffz
> 
> I've never done 4BLD. But it looks pretty clear what the scheme intends.



I've seen that one. It's for a 7x7 though. Unless I missed the 4x4 spmewhere


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## JanW (Jan 27, 2017)

Logiqx said:


> My advice would be to keep learning at the rate you are doing so already. The dot cases are amongst the OLLs where a one-look alg is most beneficial and the dots are only worth avoiding during an R U' R' style insertion (e.g. doing R' F R F' instead).


Makes sense! I need to give the recent new algs I've learned a while to sink in, but as soon as I feel ready for it I'll start looking at the dot cases as welll.


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## newtonbase (Jan 27, 2017)

kbrune said:


> I've seen that one. It's for a 7x7 though. Unless I missed the 4x4 spmewhere


There is some confusion over Speffz on bigger cubes as I think most people think the first piece that uses the letter is the corner but those pictures say otherwise. On 4x4 it's simpler as you are choosing the 2nd wing clockwise after the corner so in WCA orientation white/blue is A (Ubr) and blue/white is Q (Bur).


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## chtiger (Jan 27, 2017)

kbrune said:


> @mark49152 @h2f @newtonbase
> 
> Feeling pretty dumb. I can't seem to wrap my mind around how to assign letters to wings properly. I've looked for an image of a lettered 4x4 as reference but can't seem to find one. You guys know of any pictures?
> 
> ...


Yes, only half the wing stickers are used. For each pair on a face, it's the clockwise-most that is used, if that makes sense. You'll see that it's impossible to get the other sticker into the UB interchange position.
I'd recommend Noah's tutorials if you're still having problems.
part 1 - 



 (edge lettering starts at 2:35)
part 2 -


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## pipkiksass (Jan 27, 2017)

@Selkie, just had an email from theCubicle saying no Valk Ms will be made until Chris gets back from wherever he went for Chinese New Year. My Valk (non M) has been delivered, lets see what happens first - me getting my arse in gear and buying a few magnets and some glue (already bookmarked in my browser at home) or Chris getting home, spending a few days catching up, working on some other projects, magnetising a QiYi 7x7 for lols, catching up on the backlog of GTS Ms, inventing a new type of sticker that never chips, catching up on the backlog of Valk Ms, then USPS international shipping getting it to your door.

My money is on Chris!!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## newtonbase (Jan 27, 2017)

pipkiksass said:


> @Selkie, just had an email from theCubicle saying no Valk Ms will be made until Chris gets back from wherever he went for Chinese New Year. My Valk (non M) has been delivered, lets see what happens first - me getting my arse in gear and buying a few magnets and some glue (already bookmarked in my browser at home) or Chris getting home, spending a few days catching up, working on some other projects, magnetising a QiYi 7x7 for lols, catching up on the backlog of GTS Ms, inventing a new type of sticker that never chips, catching up on the backlog of Valk Ms, then USPS international shipping getting it to your door.
> 
> My money is on Chris!!!
> 
> ...


My wife is away tomorrow night. I might treat the kids to an early night and magnetise something. GTS or Valk?


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## mafergut (Jan 27, 2017)

kbrune said:


> @mark49152 @h2f @newtonbase
> 
> Feeling pretty dumb. I can't seem to wrap my mind around how to assign letters to wings properly. I've looked for an image of a lettered 4x4 as reference but can't seem to find one. You guys know of any pictures?
> 
> ...


Correct, in 4x4 only one sticker per wing has a letter assigned because each peace can only be in one position, I mean, if you try to "flip" a wing in a 4x4 you also move it to the other wing position in that dedge. Does this make any sense?

By the way, good news and bad news for me. New 4x4 PB Ao50 1:16.36. Coming close to 1:15  but long way to go to 1min  The bad news, @Logiqx, is that so far my findings are that the bad batch had white internals so I will most probably have to buy another WuQue from a reputable store like SCS or theCubicle  Any other options?


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## kbrune (Jan 27, 2017)

Thanks @newtonbase @chtiger 

I already watched Noah's tutorials but only once. I planned on watching them over a few times more but must wait till I get home. No WiFi at work 

I managed to understand the lettering scheme so far with your help! Now I'm working through how to set up and execute with U2 and r2


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## mafergut (Jan 27, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> My wife is away tomorrow night. I might treat the kids to an early night and magnetise something. GTS or Valk?


I vote on the Valk. Better cube all around 

Also, to @kbrune I learned the little theory I know about 4BLD from Noah's tutorial. I say theory because apart from some partial sighted solves I have never ever tried a real 4BLD.


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## kbrune (Jan 27, 2017)

mafergut said:


> Correct, in 4x4 only one sticker per wing has a letter assigned because each peace can only be in one position, I mean, if you try to "flip" a wing in a 4x4 you also move it to the other wing position in that dedge. Does this make any sense?



I don't quite understand why it works that way. But I do understand how to letter it and how to follow the targets now. Which is a good start. Still feel dumb with 4bld but that's ok. There was a time where F2L seemed like I'd been dropped on a planet in a new universe. I'll get there!


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## h2f (Jan 27, 2017)

kbrune said:


> I managed to understand the lettering scheme so far with your help! Now I'm working through how to set up and execute with U2 and r2



For r2 you can do all algs except the ones with M/M'. For targets on l layer you setup everthing to BUl and do the alg for BU from M2. That's all you need.


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## newtonbase (Jan 27, 2017)

kbrune said:


> Thanks @newtonbase @chtiger
> 
> I already watched Noah's tutorials but only once. I planned on watching them over a few times more but must wait till I get home. No WiFi at work
> 
> I managed to understand the lettering scheme so far with your help! Now I'm working through how to set up and execute with U2 and r2


R2 is very easy if you know M2. The only difference is that C, W and K set up to Q and the parity alg is new. Also you can't use Noah's shortcuts for N and H.

Edit: Ninja'd by @h2f


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## kbrune (Jan 27, 2017)

h2f said:


> For r2 you can do all algs except the ones with M/M'. For targets on l layer you setup everthing to BUl and do the alg for BU from M2. That's all you need.



Do I execute the BU alg on the l slice? Or on the 4x4 at the 3x3 stage. As in performing lr2 like M2


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## kbrune (Jan 27, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> R2 is very easy if you know M2. The only difference is that C, W and K set up to Q and the parity alg is new. Also you can't use Noah's shortcuts for N and H.



I'll have to revisit this as my lettering is non speffz.


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## newtonbase (Jan 27, 2017)

mafergut said:


> I vote on the Valk. Better cube all around


My only concern about the Valk is that the pieces are a nightmare to take apart. 



kbrune said:


> Do I execute the BU alg on the l slice? Or on the 4x4 at the 3x3 stage. As in performing lr2 like M2


 It's the same setup as on the 3x3 then R2 instead of M2.


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## newtonbase (Jan 27, 2017)

kbrune said:


> I'll have to revisit this as my lettering is non speffz.


It's the 3 pieces on the l slice that can set up to Bul with l moves so Ulf, Fdl and Dlb.


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## kbrune (Jan 27, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> It's the 3 pieces on the l slice that can set up to Bul with l moves so Ulf, Fdl and Dlb.



The BU alg I use for 3bld is 
(U M' )*3 U M (U M')*4

will that work?


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## pipkiksass (Jan 27, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> My only concern about the Valk is that the pieces are a nightmare to take apart.



You mean the corner stem thing? Any tips? Not just for disassembly, but in general. Will be using DMCubing's tutorial off YouTube, and 4x2mm n35s.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## newtonbase (Jan 27, 2017)

kbrune said:


> The BU alg I use for 3bld is
> (U M' )*3 U M (U M')*4
> 
> will that work?


I don't think so. I do B' R B U R2 U' M2 U R2 U' B' R' B


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## h2f (Jan 27, 2017)

kbrune said:


> The BU alg I use for 3bld is
> (U M' )*3 U M (U M')*4
> 
> will that work?



No. I used: (B' R B U R2 U') r2 (U R2 U' B' R' B) and the same when I was M2 user.


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## newtonbase (Jan 27, 2017)

pipkiksass said:


> You mean the corner stem thing? Any tips? Not just for disassembly, but in general. Will be using DMCubing's tutorial off YouTube, and 4x2mm n35s.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Yes, the end bits are tricky and I worry about breaking them. The cube I did was capped so quite different to most. 
I'd just suggest that you pay keen attention to polarity and stay organised.


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## phreaker (Jan 27, 2017)

pipkiksass said:


> You mean the corner stem thing? Any tips? Not just for disassembly, but in general. Will be using DMCubing's tutorial off YouTube, and 4x2mm n35s.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Disassembly: The corners aren't AS bad as people make them out to be. Be GENTLE. I never actually "touched" the tabs while removing the caps, with gentle upward pressure on the foot, and a little wobble of the foot.. it'll suddenly let one of the clasps loose, and then the rest. I had no issues. That's how I did it, for what it is worth.

Otherwise, be careful with magnet placement... get it right over do it fast.


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## kbrune (Jan 27, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> I don't think so. I do B' R B U R2 U' M2 U R2 U' B' R' B



Ughhh. Back when i searched for my BU alg, I saw that alg as an option but I liked the speed of the UM alg. Guess I'll have to switch. 

Do you find it fast now that you've used it for some time?


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## newtonbase (Jan 27, 2017)

kbrune said:


> Ughhh. Back when i searched for my BU alg, I saw that alg as an option but I liked the speed of the UM alg. Guess I'll have to switch.
> 
> Do you find it fast now that you've used it for some time?


It's pretty quick and I'm very comfortable with it so rarely make errors but I do like yours. You've made me realise that both algs are useful for edge flips. I didn't have one for UB.


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## newtonbase (Jan 27, 2017)

Here's my fastest 3BLD solve from Manchester. The enormous pause meant that I only improved by the one ranking position that I didn't realise I'd recently lost.


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## kbrune (Jan 27, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> Here's my fastest 3BLD solve from Manchester. The enormous pause meant that I only improved by the one ranking position that I didn't realise I'd recently lost.



Nice! I'll watch that when I get home.

I'm still confused on executing wings a bit. The 2 buffer pieces. The one left of the DrF buffer of the same colours. You solve it after setting up to BUl? Using your BU alg that is.

And the following targets from 3bld in the M slice. FU and BD. Can be solved using the same algs only swapping M2 for r2. Right?


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## h2f (Jan 27, 2017)

kbrune said:


> Nice! I'll watch that when I get home.
> 
> I'm still confused on executing wings a bit. The 2 buffer pieces. The one left of the DrF buffer of the same colours. You solve it after setting up to BUl? Using your BU alg that is.
> 
> And the following targets from 3bld in the M slice. FU and BD. Can be solved using the same algs only swapping M2 for r2. Right?



Fld is not a buffer. And yes - you solve it with setup to Bul with BU alg.  Fur and Bdr you solve with algs from M2. You are right. You are closer and closer to get it. Nice job.


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## newtonbase (Jan 28, 2017)

Just spotted a competition taking place 15 mins from my Mum's home in Spain today. There are only 3 people entered for 3BLD and I'm ranked above them all. Opportunity missed.


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## CLL Smooth (Jan 28, 2017)

Yesterday I cut my finger at work. I decided to practice OH at the bar later. I caught the attention of some older gentlemen who were quite impressed. I told them I was practicing one-handed because of my accident earlier that day. The bartender called me out, saying something like "I've seen you solve in one hand and text in the other. You may have cut your finger but you'd probably be doing that anyway." 
Today I got PB Ao5: 21.605


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## mafergut (Jan 28, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> Just spotted a competition taking place 15 mins from my *Mum's home in Spain *today. There are only 3 people entered for 3BLD and I'm ranked above them all. Opportunity missed.


What?!? Your mum lives in Spain? Is she Spanish or she just lives here? Is that comp in Jaen? C'mon, maybe one of these years we can meet at this comp in Spain


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## newtonbase (Jan 28, 2017)

mafergut said:


> What?!? Your mum lives in Spain? Is she Spanish or she just lives here? Is that comp in Jaen? C'mon, maybe one of these years we can meet at this comp in Spain


She's British and yes, the comp is in Jaen. It would have been hard to get there thus year even if I had known about it but I'll definitely try if they hold another one. It would be great to meet up. 
http://m.cubecomps.com/competitions/1974/events


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## pglewis (Jan 28, 2017)

Logiqx said:


> in the frenzy of a full-speed solve, you'll often miss the opportunity to skip the dot case



Word. And I get that "awww...." look on my face every. Single. Time. 



pipkiksass said:


> Also 14.75 3x3 single with tubes in both arms.



UWR! Very glad to hear you're back home.


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## pglewis (Jan 28, 2017)

Current status: sighted M2 spamming. Setups and execution for OP corners with no fancy tricks is solid enough for the moment-- to the point of being boring-- so last night I solved corners first with Varasano, 2x2 style, then M2 edges just for the variety. I'm slowly getting the orientation and recognition burned-in but still flub setup/unsetup too frequently due to silly mistakes. Last I timed a few, full sighted bld execution was averaging a little over 2 mins with a few sub 2 singles so I'd definitely like to see both better speed and accuracy before putting it all back together with memo. Memo is tough enough, don't need to add accuracy probs in execution. 

Still haven't specifically targeted improving my sighted times since descending this rabbit hole but my general "cube sense" feels 100% better than it was just a few weeks ago. Blind cross practice felt like a difficult exercise before, the prospect of visualizing just four edges now seems like a breeze.


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## newtonbase (Jan 28, 2017)

pglewis said:


> but still flub setup/unsetup too frequently due to silly mistakes.


There are many ways to mess up blind solves and that one is right up there. It's important to remember that all practice is good practice. Even if you fail every solve, the fact that you are trying a memo and an execution means that you are getting better and the results will come.


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## pglewis (Jan 28, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> There are many ways to mess up blind solves and that one is right up there. It's important to remember that all practice is good practice. Even if you fail every solve, the fact that you are trying a memo and an execution means that you are getting better and the results will come.



I've been lucky not to hit any real frustration with failures, yet. Don't get me wrong, I know it's coming lol. I managed my first success within a week of deciding to tackle it and the very day I started making full bld attempts. Roughly a half dozen successes that "first attempt" weekend and probably about a 1/3 or 1/4 success rate which was entirely offset by my expectation of not landing one for weeks (and several of the failures were close). Granted, I've looked into the high-level aspect of blind solving before out of curiosity without any earnest intent, so I went in grasping the concepts of piece swaps, an exchange buffer, and setup moves if not the gory details. Plus I've picked up more than I realized I had through osmosis, just being in this thread. 

So of course, the moment I got that first one I'm immediately dissecting all the phases involved and mulling over what it would take to get a full solve under 5 mins (my last comp had a 15 min combined cutoff for 3-bld). I set the bar too low for myself on getting a success, so my next serious target is a much bigger jump: feel competent enough to enter the event. I figure if I can get execution down to a minute thirty (assuming memo is a given), then I have 3 mins for memo plus a little cushion to reach that. Execution is already a lot closer to that roadmap than memo so I'm going to need that "all practice is good practice" mantra a lot when I return to memo and start pushing it. I still expect Memo to just be magically faster than before, now that I can assign a letter to a piece a whole lot faster from execution practice.


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## mark49152 (Jan 29, 2017)

@pglewis, I agree with @newtonbase that all practice is good practice, including failures, but I would take it further. If you care at all about BLD times, you should *aim* to have a significant proportion of failures. Success rate and fast times trade off against each other. Personally I shoot for 50% accuracy.


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## cmhardw (Jan 29, 2017)

I've been at a 15 second average solve time on 3x3 for about 10 years now. It's relatively easy to maintain that level, but difficult to get faster. My pb average is 12.87 seconds.

I realized recently that I don't think I look ahead really when I solve. I think 15 seconds has become the speed at which I can recognize pairs with minimal if any lookahead.

I've been getting more 11-12 second solves, and even some 10 and sub-10 second solves, lately by really trying to look ahead and reduce my pauses.

My long term goal is to be a 12 second average cuber. One day (fingers crossed).

Has anyone else made the realization that they do not really look ahead, or look ahead minimally? I'm trying to figure out how common this is, and if so how best to overcome it.


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## One Wheel (Jan 29, 2017)

cmhardw said:


> Has anyone else made the realization that they do not really look ahead, or look ahead minimally? I'm trying to figure out how common this is, and if so how best to overcome it.



I'm much slower than you, but yes, I've noticed that. I'm typically in the low 30 second range, and I haven't paid much attention to lookahead. My lookahead in 3x3 stage is much better on big cubes because I'm forced to turn slower. I actually noticed this morning I was doing a 10x10 solve and I think it was the first time I actually saw the second f2l (f9l?) pair before I even started one. I don't know if that helps, but I'm pretty sure at my stage anyway I would be helped to do 3x3 practice on bigger cubes.


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## Jason Green (Jan 29, 2017)

Welcome @Bemis and @dskids!

On being an old guy at comps, I was worried about that too. But as others have said people are very welcoming! Just go find an empty spot at a practice table. I remember first comp in morning I sat at a table with two kids and a dad. After lunch I sat by just some 12 year olds or so, and right when I sat down one asked what my PB was right away.  Made me feel good. 

My goal at first comp was not to DNF. I really wanted an average so I could be in the over 40 standings from here. I realize y'all aren't there yet age wise, but just enjoy the comp. I definitely feel the nerves after 6 comps. Sometimes during inspection I have the weird sensation of "what am I looking at here, oh it's my cube!"

@cmhardw lookahead has always been difficult for me. I average about 18.5 at home now. I sometimes feel like I really do it, but a lot of times not. Especially if the corner is in the back slot already I almost always have to rotate to figure out how to pair it! I don't have any novel advice on overcoming it.


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## pipkiksass (Jan 29, 2017)

cmhardw said:


> I've been at a 15 second average solve time on 3x3 for about 10 years now. It's relatively easy to maintain that level, but difficult to get faster. My pb average is 12.87 seconds.
> 
> I realized recently that I don't think I look ahead really when I solve. I think 15 seconds has become the speed at which I can recognize pairs with minimal if any lookahead.
> 
> ...



I'm in a similar situation, I don't really look ahead, and average sub-18. 

I have found, recently, that slow-turning practice, forcing myself to have the next move in mind while still executing the current one, really does help. 

I think 10 years of "bad" habits will be hard to break, but perhaps drop speed significantly and turn slow is the way forward.

I feel like I'm regurgitating the same old advice, and really don't want the to come across as one of those "slow down, look ahead dummy" posts! I can get away with 13/14 second solves without lookahead, just need straightforward F2L and easy LL. I'm sure that, even with lookahead, these solves wouldn't be much faster. Where the difference willl come, for me, is the occasional 22s "panic F2L" solve, where I have no idea where my next pair is (oh look,it's already misinserted in the back), then screw up LL because I'm rushing.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## JanW (Jan 29, 2017)

pglewis said:


> I figure if I can get execution down to a minute thirty (assuming memo is a given), then I have 3 mins for memo plus a little cushion to reach that. Execution is already a lot closer to that roadmap than memo so I'm going to need that "all practice is good practice" mantra a lot when I return to memo and start pushing it. I still expect Memo to just be magically faster than before, now that I can assign a letter to a piece a whole lot faster from execution practice.


With practice you should very quickly get memo down to 3 minutes and below. Early on it is very slow because it takes time to figure out where the piece is supposed to go, the correct letter and words for letter combinations. The first two become automatic quite fast, and with a well learned word list I'd imagine coming up with words shouldn't take any time either (I still haven't done one). 

To put it another way, when first learning bld, most of memo time is spent figuring out what you are supposed to remember. As this takes so long, it is also more difficult to remember things you've memorized earlier, which results in more reviews. So down to a certain limit, reducing memo time actually has very little to do with how fast you can assign things to your memory. It's all about getting to know your cube, your letter scheme and your word list better. If you'd imagine how long it would take you to memorize your memo sentences/list of syllables/whatever you memorize, if handed to you written down on a piece of paper, that's how fast you can memorize. The rest of the time you spend recalling things from memory (letters, locations, words) which will get faster the more you do it.


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## mafergut (Jan 29, 2017)

cmhardw said:


> I've been at a 15 second average solve time on 3x3 for about 10 years now. It's relatively easy to maintain that level, but difficult to get faster. My pb average is 12.87 seconds.
> 
> I realized recently that I don't think I look ahead really when I solve. I think 15 seconds has become the speed at which I can recognize pairs with minimal if any lookahead.
> 
> ...


I am also quite slower than you, at around 18.5 - 19 average and PB Ao5 over 15.5 seconds. I also feel like I could just stay there for 10 years without improvement, in fact it's been two years more or less since I felt I was getting any better.

My experience is very similar, I feel like I only lookahead in some solves and most of the time is more pairs shouting at me than I searching for them. When I can really force myself to lookahead and it works I can get easily several 15 and 16 second solves in a row and it's quite satisfying but it doesn't happen very frequently.

I would be more than happy with a 15 - 16 second global average but I can't seem to be able to get there. Maybe I don't know how to practice lookahead. Good luck with your goal!

Sent from my Nexus 4 with Tapatalk


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## Logiqx (Jan 29, 2017)

cmhardw said:


> I've been at a 15 second average solve time on 3x3 for about 10 years now. It's relatively easy to maintain that level, but difficult to get faster. My pb average is 12.87 seconds.
> 
> I realized recently that I don't think I look ahead really when I solve. I think 15 seconds has become the speed at which I can recognize pairs with minimal if any lookahead.
> 
> ...



I came to the same conclusion last week after a particularly good session when I got a 14.20 average of 5 on a busy train. It felt like all of the F2L pairs were easy for half a dozen solves and that continued on my next leg of the journey when I didn't time myself but I could feel the solves were just as fast. I realised that the pairs that evening weren't "easy" per-se but that all pairs become easy when you're truly looking ahead.

I think my typically / lazy / partial look ahead speed is mid-17's but when I focus on look ahead I seem to be 1-2 seconds faster. I need to be more disciplined and force myself to solve at the speed where I can maintain look ahead. I think a lot of people are probably guilty of this bad habit!


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## mark49152 (Jan 29, 2017)

@cmhardw: I have been stuck at around 18 seconds for two years and the difference between good and bad solves for me is often lookahead. The best way I can describe it is that my "lookahead" feels like I'm avoiding watching the pair I'm solving, but not necessarily tracking the next pair. Instead I'm kind of gazing at the cube. That helps me recognise the next pair quicker, but it's not genuine lookahead. On the rare occasions I do seem to see the next pairs earlier, I certainly get faster solves, without them really feeling faster.


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## mafergut (Jan 29, 2017)

Another nice 4x4 session this weekend, with more than 150 solves. I put two drops of Maru on my WuQue and that seemed to help with slugishness. Not that the lube made the cube fast but at least now it's a tiny bit lighter to turn without losing any of the stability. I might refrain from buying another one for now. Got several sub 1:05 solves and another 1:01.xx (not PB) but no sub 1 minute yet  I got my 1st sub 1:10 Ao5 though and PB Ao12 went down to 1:13.

It feels great to improve again at something. Probably the reason why I have almost abandoned 3x3 lately. The bad thing is that I'm forgetting a couple OLLs that I had problems with on big cubes and was doing 2L OLL for. Will have to review them.

Any recommendations on a 3x3 that could revive my interest? One that is available in stickerless (the reason why I have not tried the SS FangYuan even though Marcel seemed to like it a lot). I have heard good things of the Yan3 and I'm also thinking about getting a magnetizing kit from SCS but not sure it any of that will be worth it or I should stick to my Valk3.


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## h2f (Jan 29, 2017)

And I got nice session today - it's first ao100 since December: I didnt even do ao100 before comp two weeks ago. I got first sub18 ao50 and 18.19 ao100 which is almost 0.5 sec faster than previous one. The key factor for improvment was predicting and tracing first pair. I must keep practicing it.


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## pglewis (Jan 29, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> If you care at all about BLD times, you should *aim* to have a significant proportion of failures. Success rate and fast times trade off against each other. Personally I shoot for 50% accuracy.



Yeah, that's one of the things I've picked up via osmosis here. It makes perfect sense: if I'm looking to get faster and my accuracy is very good... I'm not pushing memo enough. 



JanW said:


> With practice you should very quickly get memo down to 3 minutes and below.



Here's hoping, it's a big jump from my initial 7-10 min memo but I'm optimistic due to all the points you raised.


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## h2f (Jan 29, 2017)

pglewis said:


> ere's hoping, it's a big jump from my initial 7-10 min memo but I'm optimistic due to all the points you raised.



It'll take you only few months, you'll see. Just keep practice.


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## newtonbase (Jan 29, 2017)

pglewis said:


> Yeah, that's one of the things I've picked up via osmosis here. It makes perfect sense: if I'm looking to get faster and my accuracy is very good... I'm not pushing memo enough.
> 
> 
> 
> Here's hoping, it's a big jump from my initial 7-10 min memo but I'm optimistic due to all the points you raised.


I totally agree. I made big improvements when I stopped trying to get a success every solve and just tried to memo quickly.


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## pglewis (Jan 29, 2017)

And being the fickle cuber I am my practice routine is about to take a left turn. Another comp popped-up too close to pass by, in early March. No 3-bld or Pyraminx for me to debut there so I decided to sign up for my 4x4 debut, given the liberal 1:35/3:00 cutoffs. C'mere, WuQue.


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## efattah (Jan 30, 2017)

Although in my method I am solving E2L pairs instead of F2L pairs the concept for lookahead is the same. An excellent and challenging exercise is very simple. First, execute your F2L algorithms on a solved cube, and try to memorize what happens to the other pieces. Even some understanding is okay. Then do a regular solve, and pause before solving your pair. Try to solve 2 pairs blindfolded. So predict where the pieces will be after the first pair, then mentally identify the case for the 2nd pair before even solving the first one. Close your eyes and try to solve both pairs blindfolded. One of the problems of lazy solving is that there are many pieces to track when solving your pair and setting up for the next pair. With the above method you don't even need to track any pieces because you know in advance where they will end up.

This like many other things shows how real improvement requires structured and sometimes unpleasant tasks. For example learning where the 'other' pieces will go when using each F2L algorithm is not a very fun task. Of course when doing intuitive F2L you need to track pieces the old way.


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## newtonbase (Jan 30, 2017)

2/3 MBLD. I was left with a bizarre edge cycle. I had to flip UL and went for the lazy method of doing UL then LU but must have done UL FU. I don't get it. Memo and recall were perfect though.


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## mafergut (Jan 30, 2017)

Hi guys. I just received my WuJi 7x7 and 6 MF3RS. The 7x7 I just did first turns but it feels nice so I finally have changed completely to stickerless puzzles except for megaminx.

The budget 3x3s come completely unlubed but they are surprisingly nice. They could perfectly be someone's mains if correctly set up and I think they will be nice enough for MBLD. Not sure if better that a bunch of Thunderclaps but cheaper for sure at 1.99 each. If I end not liking them I will give them away as presents to try and spread the cubing bug.

Sent from my Nexus 4 with Tapatalk


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## mark49152 (Jan 30, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> 2/3 MBLD. I was left with a bizarre edge cycle. I had to flip UL and went for the lazy method of doing UL then LU but must have done UL FU. I don't get it. Memo and recall were perfect though.


Not sure how you hit FU but I still frequently make the mistake of flipping UL after my parity fix, when the offending piece has been swapped to BU. And vice versa.


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## Logiqx (Jan 30, 2017)

Just a quick note to say that I've added a menu to my web pages.

http://cubing.mikeg.me.uk/algs/oll.html
http://cubing.mikeg.me.uk/algs/coll.html
http://cubing.mikeg.me.uk/algs/pll.html

Please let me know if you spot any issues in your browser.


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## newtonbase (Jan 30, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> Not sure how you hit FU but I still frequently make the mistake of flipping UL after my parity fix, when the offending piece has been swapped to BU. And vice versa.


Lord knows what I did but I tried the scramble again with my regular edge flip and solved it so it was definitely an execution error. Its still my closest attempt at 3. My new rooms are working well so I'm expecting a success very soon.


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## SenorJuan (Jan 30, 2017)

Chris H. 
Speaking as an oldie with dodgy lookahead, I'm reluctant to give much advice, but...
Have you tried filming your solves, and seeing if that sheds any light on what makes a good / bad solve? I'm contemplating doing this soon, it's likely to show that 3rd /4th slots on the back is one of my stumbling areas, my better solves are the ones with great lookahead, and that's helped by having the pairs reasonably visible. But forcing solves to the back two slots at the start of F2L is not easy to integrate seamlessly into a solve.


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## Shaky Hands (Jan 30, 2017)

Logiqx said:


> Just a quick note to say that I've added a menu to my web pages.
> 
> http://cubing.mikeg.me.uk/algs/oll.html
> http://cubing.mikeg.me.uk/algs/coll.html
> ...



Cheers Mike.

Have you considered adding names of individual OLL algs, e.g.: Stealth, Zamboni?


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## Logiqx (Jan 30, 2017)

Shaky Hands said:


> Cheers Mike.
> 
> Have you considered adding names of individual OLL algs, e.g.: Stealth, Zamboni?



Have you tried clicking on the case icons?

Lots of details when you click through to the case view, including the names. 

I should perhaps show the case names on the front pages when there is enough space.

Edit: Zamboni page - http://cubing.mikeg.me.uk/algs/oll.html#case-2


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## Shaky Hands (Jan 30, 2017)

Logiqx said:


> Have you tried clicking on the case icons?
> 
> Lots of details when you click through to the case view, including the names.
> 
> ...



Ah gotcha, thanks. Yes I was just looking on the index pages.

Something just under the case number on the index pages would be useful if it looks right to you. Currently trying to fill in some OLL gaps I have where I can FMC stuff but not speedsolve them reliably.


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## Logiqx (Jan 30, 2017)

Shaky Hands said:


> Ah gotcha, thanks. Yes I was just looking on the index pages.
> 
> Something just under the case number on the index pages would be useful if it looks right to you. Currently trying to fill in some OLL gaps I have where I can FMC stuff but not speedsolve them reliably.



If you're ever interested in the composition of LL algs you might like the comments that I've added to the individual case pages.

e.g. Jb-Perm - http://cubing.mikeg.me.uk/algs/pll.html#case-Jb


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## One Wheel (Jan 31, 2017)

Logiqx said:


> Just a quick note to say that I've added a menu to my web pages.
> 
> http://cubing.mikeg.me.uk/algs/oll.html
> http://cubing.mikeg.me.uk/algs/coll.html
> ...



I need to use that some. Very nice. I just noticed, however, on OLL 28 you have a couple algs, including one that seems to me a slightly less ergonomic version of the one I use: M' U M U2 M' U M. You have the same except with a U setup and U' instead of U. I just find U' slightly clumsier than U.


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## h2f (Jan 31, 2017)

Logiqx said:


> If you're ever interested in the composition of LL algs you might like the comments that I've added to the individual case pages.
> 
> e.g. Jb-Perm - http://cubing.mikeg.me.uk/algs/pll.html#case-Jb



You ve made a very good source of algs. I add your page to my resource's folder. Awsome.


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## Logiqx (Jan 31, 2017)

One Wheel said:


> I need to use that some. Very nice. I just noticed, however, on OLL 28 you have a couple algs, including one that seems to me a slightly less ergonomic version of the one I use: M' U M U2 M' U M. You have the same except with a U setup and U' instead of U. I just find U' slightly clumsier than U.


It boils down to which hand you use for the M slice. I use my right hand for M/M' and left hand for U'. The alternative is to use your left hand for M/M' and right hand for U.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk


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## JanW (Jan 31, 2017)

The past week has been very bad for me, at worst I even clocked a sup-25 Ao100. Don't know why, but somehow it felt like I've lost all ability to solve. One reason could be that I am negatively affected by seeing bad results, which leads to a downward spiral. Also if I'm doing very well and notice I'm on my way to a pb I often get nervous, which again has a negative effect. So for the race to sub-20 I decided to try something new and set up csTimer in such a way that I couldn't see any times. I also switched back to the MoJue M3 from the Valk3, which never really seemed to work for me. After the 12 comp solves I finally looked at my times and ... new PB!

avg of 12: 20.83
22.27, (23.10), (17.19), 20.14, 21.71, 22.62, 19.65, 20.41, 17.32, 20.81, 21.67, 21.68

I've never seen such an even Ao12 before! Not even a counting 23. I must try hiding the times more often!


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## JohnnyReggae (Jan 31, 2017)

JanW said:


> The past week has been very bad for me, at worst I even clocked a sup-25 Ao100. Don't know why, but somehow it felt like I've lost all ability to solve. One reason could be that I am negatively affected by seeing bad results, which leads to a downward spiral. Also if I'm doing very well and notice I'm on my way to a pb I often get nervous, which again has a negative effect. So for the race to sub-20 I decided to try something new and set up csTimer in such a way that I couldn't see any times. I also switched back to the MoJue M3 from the Valk3, which never really seemed to work for me. After the 12 comp solves I finally looked at my times and ... new PB!
> 
> avg of 12: 20.83
> 22.27, (23.10), (17.19), 20.14, 21.71, 22.62, 19.65, 20.41, 17.32, 20.81, 21.67, 21.68
> ...


I use CSTimer for the most part except for an app on my phone. I love the feature of hiding the timer as I used to find it distracting and used to find myself looking up at the timer instead on concentrating on my solve.

Well done on the PB


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## Shaky Hands (Jan 31, 2017)

I've been hammering away with some 3BLD practice the past couple of days. Looks like my Edges are going better than my Corners. Mostly making errors in memo rather than execution, so will practice some dedicated tracing.

I've not been timing the solves, just working on getting successes without aiming to double-check everything.


Attempt #Incorrect EdgesIncorrect CornersCompletion12090%20575%34650%400100%500100%600100%79625%800100%92470%1000100%113085%1200100%130385%140385%150385%164460%170385%1800100%190290%200290%


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## kbrune (Jan 31, 2017)

Dear oldie friends. 4x4 is a jerk!!


The end


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## pglewis (Jan 31, 2017)

kbrune said:


> Dear oldie friends. 4x4 is a jerk!!



Says the guy with official times in the ballpark of my current at-home goals . 



Logiqx said:


> Just a quick note to say that I've added a menu to my web pages.



I was going to make this suggestion then figured it was already a task list item for you and you'd get to it. Looks nice on my desktop browser at first glance (Ubuntu/Chromium), I'll take a look on my Android phone today too. 



cmhardw said:


> I realized recently that I don't think I look ahead really when I solve. I think 15 seconds has become the speed at which I can recognize pairs with minimal if any lookahead.



I love how at 1:10 my focus was mostly look-ahead, then aiming to get sub 40s it was mostly look-ahead. And now it's all about look-ahead. And apparently when I get to the :15s it'll likely shift to being all about look-ahead. 

I'll wager it's the same old song with the same lyrics, just at a faster tempo. Whatever you'd suggest to someone at my level to improve look-ahead... do that. A lot. Blind pair solving to expose cases you currently have to keep eyes on for too long. Slow turning at ~:30 pace... so slow your brain looks ahead out of boredom to get back into the look-ahead habit. I'm as curious as you are to discover how fast you can get.


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## mafergut (Jan 31, 2017)

kbrune said:


> Dear oldie friends. 4x4 is a jerk!!
> 
> 
> The end


I'm curious  What did it do to you?


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## kbrune (Jan 31, 2017)

@pglewis @mafergut 
I know what you mean. When super fast solvers complain that they get sup 10 second solves lol

In my defense. I haven't been able to get very many solves under 1:30 which was my goal since the beginning of time. 4x4 is the event that is actually getting slower. I know lack of practice is a big part of it as well as my method most likely needs tweaking. But I'm just less and less motivated to put effort Into it. The slower I get the more I wanna throw it out the window lol


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## newtonbase (Jan 31, 2017)

Shaky Hands said:


> I've been hammering away with some 3BLD practice the past couple of days. Looks like my Edges are going better than my Corners. Mostly making errors in memo rather than execution, so will practice some dedicated tracing.
> 
> I've not been timing the solves, just working on getting successes without aiming to double-check everything.
> 
> ...


I see a mean in there. Well done.


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## kbrune (Jan 31, 2017)

On a brighter note. I just got 18.95 ao50. my first sub 19. I felt like I had very many easy starts but still. I was able to take advantage of most of them where often I fumble easy starts. Very pleased with this. 

First time I feel like I can put myself in the sub 20 club and feel I'll have a chance of remaining there.


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## pglewis (Jan 31, 2017)

mafergut said:


> The budget 3x3s come completely unlubed but they are surprisingly nice. They could perfectly be someone's mains if correctly set up and I think they will be nice enough for MBLD.



I forgot I meant to comment on this one. I still haven't found much to nitpick on the MF3RS, regardless of price. "A little catchy" is still all I have, and I find that with most of the squared corner designs. There was no spring noise to speak of so I've never even disassembled it nor lubed the core, a couple drops of Silk and a quarter turn tighter is all I've done. It feels very light and hollow to me and I've preferred a more "substantial" feeling cube like the Thunderclap to this point but I love the controllable speed it has without having to loosen it to the point of sacrificing stability. Not sure it'll ever fully dethrone the Thunderclap/Valk power-combo for me but it has been getting a lot of solve time recently.


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## Selkie (Feb 1, 2017)

@pipkiksass - Chris Tran is currently in Vietnam so might be a slight wait on the Valk M's if it awaits for his return 

@newtonbase - Great BLD mate, grats, love the muted reaction. @Shaky Hands - World class judge as ever 

@cmhardw - I average just sub 15.5 and my pb avg on film (12.77) is not too different from yours mate. Look ahead is a strange beast for me. I feel it takes concentrated effort to maintain. The difference between a 16.x solve and a 13.x one seems to be related to lookahead and more specifically the ability to look away from the pair I am solving as quickly as possible. "Slow Down, Look Ahead" is great advice but takes more practice than my old hands can master 

@Logiqx - Nice updates to the website mate and .. great average 

@Shaky Hands - Great analysis on your BLD mate, this sort of discipline will brig results buddy

I apologise for being absent of late, I got the job offer last Friday which I am delighted about but also lost a very close friend on the same day and am struggling to keep up with everything else at the moment. Given up on not timing solves too which has given me a PB ao12 of 14.31. There is still improvement in 47 year old hands


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## Logiqx (Feb 1, 2017)

@Selkie - My condolences about your friend. Many congrats on the new job.

Edit: p.s. What are you doing on this forum at 4:38am?

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk


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## muchacho (Feb 1, 2017)

I've finally changed my flair at reddit/cubers from sub-22 to sub-21... that second took me 3-4 months  ...luckily I don't easily get depressed


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## Selkie (Feb 1, 2017)

Logiqx said:


> @Selkie - My condolences about your friend. Many congrats on the new job.
> 
> Edit: p.s. What are you doing on this forum at 4:38am?



Good spot sir. Couldn't sleep. Seemed an ideal opportunity to catch up


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## newtonbase (Feb 1, 2017)

1/3 MBLD. Cube 1 - I executed last edge as W when it was C. It was an odd letter but I changed it for some reason. Cube 2 - I stopped the edge memo 2 stickers early. Never done that before. Cube 3 - 3BLD cube, no problem. All recall was perfect and the time was 13:38 which I'm very happy with.


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## Logiqx (Feb 1, 2017)

Churchill solving a 3x3x3 with his tongue... oh yes!

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk


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## JohnnyReggae (Feb 2, 2017)

I have a question around lubrication.... I've seen and heard of people mixing various lubes when lubing their cubes. Excuse my ignorant question or observation rather .... if you mix 2 different viscosity lubes eg, weight 1, and weight 3, you wouldn't get both of their properties but rather a somewhere in between viscosity when they mix ?

Does it make a difference when you use a silicone lube and mix a water based lube, eg Maru with that ? Would it not be simpler to pick a particular lube that give you the feeling you are looking for rather than mixing ?


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## mark49152 (Feb 2, 2017)

JohnnyReggae said:


> I have a question around lubrication.... I've seen and heard of people mixing various lubes when lubing their cubes. Excuse my ignorant question or observation rather .... if you mix 2 different viscosity lubes eg, weight 1, and weight 3, you wouldn't get both of their properties but rather a somewhere in between viscosity when they mix ?


My preference is to put in a little thick lube and break it in thoroughly, then put in a little light lube on top. My theory is that the thick lube sticks to the pieces better than light lube, but I have no expertise or evidence to back that up. It just works well for me.


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## newtonbase (Feb 2, 2017)

Finally got a 3 cube MBLD. Forgot to start the timer but well under 20 mins. Very happy with it. 4 cubes next.

I've been waiting for my wife to confirm that I'm free for Peterborough and she's only just done it but it's too late. I'm 14th on the waiting list. The warm glow of my MBLD succes had dissipated rapidly. I'm not certain for the World Championships either now for unrelated reasons.


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## Logiqx (Feb 2, 2017)

Looking at previous competition results it looks like there are often a fair number of no shows but Peterborough is a relatively small competition (max 80) with only 15 newbies. Possibly worth taking a punt and just turning up?

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk


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## newtonbase (Feb 2, 2017)

Logiqx said:


> Looking at previous competition results it looks like there are often a fair number of no shows but Peterborough is a relatively small competition (max 80) with only 15 newbies. Possibly worth taking a punt and just turning up?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk


Normally Yes, but I think with the new system of prepayment the number of no shows will have reduced significantly. I'm too pissed off to think about it rationally at the moment. This would likely have been my last chance to qualify for MBLD for the World's.


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## Logiqx (Feb 2, 2017)

Have a word with the organisers about maybe a MBLD only entry. I'll happily judge.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk


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## One Wheel (Feb 2, 2017)

Now that I've got a reason to justify going to a competition (cubes to sell) I've got 3 competitions within 4 hours drive, all with events I'm interested in, generous (enough) cutoffs, and schedule conflicts for all three of them.


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## mark49152 (Feb 2, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> I've been waiting for my wife to confirm that I'm free for Peterborough and she's only just done it but it's too late. I'm 14th on the waiting list. The warm glow of my MBLD succes had dissipated rapidly. I'm not certain for the World Championships either now for unrelated reasons.


If there was a "don't like" button.....


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## pglewis (Feb 2, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> Finally got a 3 cube MBLD. Forgot to start the timer but well under 20 mins. Very happy with it. 4 cubes next.



Sorry to hear about the comp scheduling issues but... dude... you solved 3 cubes blindfolded! I knew it was coming from your recent reports but happy to see you get it out of the way.


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## newtonbase (Feb 2, 2017)

pglewis said:


> Sorry to hear about the comp scheduling issues but... dude... you solved 3 cubes blindfolded! I knew it was coming from your recent reports but happy to see you get it out of the way.


Thanks. It was definitely coming soon. I just needed to avoid silly mistakes. That's at least 3 consecutive attempts with perfect recall. 4 or even 5 shouldn't be a big step up but then I'll start running out of lunch break. I'll try and break in a couple more rooms at the weekend.


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## newtonbase (Feb 2, 2017)

Congratulations to @mafergut for joining the 1000 likes club.


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## mafergut (Feb 2, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> Congratulations to @mafergut for joining the 1000 likes club.


And that's taking into account that I don't roam the forum that much lately but I'm still here. 

I'm halfway through an Ao1000 of 2x2 trying to decide what should be my main between the WeiPo and the YueHun and whether it's worth or not for me to try and learn CLL. Stuck since long ago at like 5.5 average with Varasano.

Sent from my Nexus 4 with Tapatalk


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## CLL Smooth (Feb 3, 2017)

mafergut said:


> And that's taking into account that I don't roam the forum that much lately but I'm still here.
> 
> I'm halfway through an Ao1000 of 2x2 trying to decide what should be my main between the WeiPo and the YueHun and whether it's worth or not for me to try and learn CLL. Stuck since long ago at like 5.5 average with Varasano.
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 4 with Tapatalk


I know I've said this all before but here it goes again. I found 2x2 much more fun to practice once I learned CLL. Algs aren't bad and you probably know many of them already. Finally, knowing the recognition helps in larger puzzles too.


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## phreaker (Feb 3, 2017)

@newtonbase : Grats on the 3 cubes man. I know I'm looking forward to learning MBLD once I've got some BLD success.

Update on general things:

Valk 3 M (custom): Works awesome! Now my main for every 3x3 event. First time I've had a cube do that. Usually my OH main is separate from my 2H.

BLD: My OP corner execution is getting much more solid, and I'd trust it for an attempt now, M2, I've got ~3 more algs I need to get down, and general practice to do, before I trust that I've got it, enough to move forwards. I want to have confidence in my ability to execute targets before trying to put it all together. From what I can tell.. getting the basics down really matters. And practicing shooting targets is something I can do with very small amounts of time.

Step by step... piece by piece... I will get there.


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## newtonbase (Feb 3, 2017)

phreaker said:


> @newtonbase : Grats on the 3 cubes man. I know I'm looking forward to learning MBLD once I've got some BLD success.
> 
> Update on general things:
> 
> ...


Glad to see you are making progress. Is it the FU and BD algs you are finding most difficult? They are tricky.


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## phreaker (Feb 3, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> Glad to see you are making progress. Is it the FU and BD algs you are finding most difficult? They are tricky.



I just got done really getting BD down, I can execute it almost mindlessly.. FU is next. After that, I have BU (which isn't THAT bad.) and parity.

Then I should be ready to go forward, realizing I have to double shoot twists and flps.


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## mafergut (Feb 3, 2017)

CLL Smooth said:


> I know I've said this all before but here it goes again. I found 2x2 much more fun to practice once I learned CLL. Algs aren't bad and you probably know many of them already. Finally, knowing the recognition helps in larger puzzles too.



Thanks for the feedback. I have procrastinated for too long already on learning COLL for 3x3 and up because I'm afraid recognition would be too difficult to master. A pity 2x2 CLL algs don't all work well on 3x3. Maybe I should start with COLL instead?


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## CLL Smooth (Feb 3, 2017)

mafergut said:


> Thanks for the feedback. I have procrastinated for too long already on learning COLL for 3x3 and up because I'm afraid recognition would be too difficult to master. A pity 2x2 CLL algs don't all work well on 3x3. Maybe I should start with COLL instead?


That's up to you. I actually learned a CMLL set first but then I never switched to Roux. The toughest thing about the recognition for me is being able to spot it from two different angles. I can do it but I usually still AUF first.


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## newtonbase (Feb 3, 2017)

phreaker said:


> I just got done really getting BD down, I can execute it almost mindlessly.. FU is next. After that, I have BU (which isn't THAT bad.) and parity.
> 
> Then I should be ready to go forward, realizing I have to double shoot twists and flps.


Yes, BU isn't difficult so you are close. Once you are comfortable you can start learning some tricks. Mark's Advanced M2 thread is priceless. There are also some easy algs for twists and flips that we can show you if you don't already have a resource.


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## kbrune (Feb 3, 2017)

I can never figure out how to add a picture from my phone on this forum... wanted to post my new 3x3 PB. 12.76 full step


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## phreaker (Feb 3, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> Yes, BU isn't difficult so you are close. Once you are comfortable you can start learning some tricks. Mark's Advanced M2 thread is priceless. There are also some easy algs for twists and flips that we can show you if you don't already have a resource.



I don't have a good resource on those, so I'll take what you have to offer, or I was going to have to figure it out from COLL


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## Jason Green (Feb 3, 2017)

kbrune said:


> I can never figure out how to add a picture from my phone on this forum... wanted to post my new 3x3 PB. 12.76 full step


Do you use Tapatalk? Just click the mountains next to the camera.


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## kbrune (Feb 4, 2017)

I don't have tapatalk. when I click on the mountain it says something like "add media" and nothing happens.
Perhaps i'll have to dload that app.


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## newtonbase (Feb 4, 2017)

phreaker said:


> I don't have a good resource on those, so I'll take what you have to offer, or I was going to have to figure it out from COLL


To flip edges UF and UB - M' U' M' U' M' U' M' U2 M' U' M' U' M' U' M'
To flip edges UR and DF (buffer) ((M' U)3 M U)2 or switch U to U' for UL and DF (M' U M' U M' U M U M' U M' U M' U M U)
To flip all top edges M' U' M' U' M' U' M' U M' U' M' U' M' U' M' U
To twist UFL clockwise and UBL anticlockwise - 2x sexy move (R U R' U'), L', 2x reverse sexy move (U R U' R'), L. To twist them both the other way then the L moves come first so L', 2x sexy, L, 2x reverse sexy. If the piece is in DFL instead of UFL use L2 instead of the L and L' moves.
Use setups to get your pieces in the right positions first and don't forget to undo them. You can get away with just learning the first or second edge flip to begin with.


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## kbrune (Feb 4, 2017)

On the road to Montreal Open! 

Just finished tossing a Rubiks brand cubes in the fires of mordor. Hopefully the PB gods will look favorably upon me!


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## newtonbase (Feb 4, 2017)

Good luck.


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## phreaker (Feb 4, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> To flip edges UF and UB - M' U' M' U' M' U' M' U2 M' U' M' U' M' U' M'
> To flip edges UR and DF (buffer) ((M' U)3 M U)2 or switch U to U' for UL and DF (M' U M' U M' U M U M' U M' U M' U M U)
> To flip all top edges M' U' M' U' M' U' M' U M' U' M' U' M' U' M' U
> To twist UFL clockwise and UBL anticlockwise - 2x sexy move (R U R' U'), L', 2x reverse sexy move (U R U' R'), L. To twist them both the other way then the L moves come first so L', 2x sexy, L, 2x reverse sexy. If the piece is in DFL instead of UFL use L2 instead of the L and L' moves.
> Use setups to get your pieces in the right positions first and don't forget to undo them. You can get away with just learning the first or second edge flip to begin with.



Thanks! I don't see needing flipping all the top edges with M2... The corner twist I can see needing....Sooner over later. But I'll probably dual shoot them my first few times, just to get going.

I'm not great at learning algs. The only reason I've been able to learn M2/OP so fast is that it is so intuitive, in general.

In fact, I know ALMOST full OH PLL. But not 2H. (Need to learn Na/Nb... but they are so uncommon, I just do them as 2xJ's for now...)

I use OH PLL, 2H... So I actually had to learn the 2H Y-perm, for OP Corners . I can understand when they talk about one handed amensia... Except, I get it backwards .


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## mafergut (Feb 4, 2017)

What a bummer!!!
I got a 58.96 4x4 single but... click here for more details.


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## Bemis (Feb 4, 2017)

Getting comfortable with look ahead during F2L is starting to show on my times. This is such an enjoyable hobby. The more I learn, the better it gets.


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## Logiqx (Feb 4, 2017)

mafergut said:


> I have procrastinated for too long already on learning COLL for 3x3 and up because I'm afraid recognition would be too difficult to master.



COLL case recognition is pretty easy but my experience is that alg recall takes a while to improve, just as it did for things like OLL. If you don't know how CxLL case recognition works then here are a couple of tips. You start by recognising the OCLL then you use the non-U colour stickers to determine the permutation using matching/opposite/adjacent rules. The H / Pi cases have 4 stickers facing upwards and the colour combinations are pretty unique. The U / L / T cases have two non-U stickers facing upwards and they'll either be matching, opposite or adjacent colours. There are exactly 2 of each so the colours on top narrow it down to one of 2 CxLL cases and you then use 1 or 2 additional corner stickers to identify the exact case.

e.g. The L case OCLL with adjacent colours on top is either the no-swap case (2-gen / triple sune) or the diagonal swap (fat OLL) and you can determine which one by looking at a side sticker of an oriented corner. After a while you'll automatically know which one of the 2 CxLL cases it might be during OCLL recognition and then it's just a case of determining the precise case. This is akin to OLL recognition where you probably look at the top then look at the side. e.g. say you see a square on top you know it's going to be either the fat-sune or the fat-anti-sune but you don't know which until you look at side stickers. The only difference with CxLL recognition is that the second step uses colour matching rules.

Long story cut short you can work out the recognition system yourself which is kinda fun. 



mafergut said:


> What a bummer!!!
> I got a 58.96 4x4 single but... click here for more details.



So close!


----------



## newtonbase (Feb 4, 2017)

phreaker said:


> Thanks! I don't see needing flipping all the top edges with M2... The corner twist I can see needing....Sooner over later. But I'll probably dual shoot them my first few times, just to get going.


Yes, the 4 edges one isn't that useful but it's easy so I include for completeness. I saw one recently that does the buffer and UB but I don't appear to have made a note of it.


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## phreaker (Feb 4, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> Yes, the 4 edges one isn't that useful but it's easy so I include for completeness. I saw one recently that does the buffer and UB but I don't appear to have made a note of it.



My guess is any Roux solver could tell us .


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## newtonbase (Feb 4, 2017)

phreaker said:


> My guess is any Roux solver could tell us .


Got it. Flip DF and UB
U M' U M' U M' U M U M' U M' U M' U M - simple. 
Also, if you swap the last move for M' it works for the BU target in M2. which may interest you @phreaker


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## newtonbase (Feb 4, 2017)

3x3 PB average for @kbrune today. Well done!


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## mark49152 (Feb 4, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> Yes, the 4 edges one isn't that useful


I've used it a couple of times with setups when I've had 3 flipped edges (plus buffer). I'm sure it didn't make the solves faster but it felt cool


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## newtonbase (Feb 4, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> I've used it a couple of times with setups when I've had 3 flipped edges (plus buffer). I'm sure it didn't make the solves faster but it felt cool


The issue I have is that there's too big a risk of making a mistake undoing that many setups. I'd rather take 5s more and be safe doing 2 at a time. Unless they are all on top already of course!


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## pglewis (Feb 4, 2017)

phreaker said:


> I just got done really getting BD down, I can execute it almost mindlessly.. FU is next. After that, I have BU (which isn't THAT bad.) and parity.
> 
> Then I should be ready to go forward, realizing I have to double shoot twists and flps.



For BU: I found the alg in the description of Noah's execution vid very intuitive so it saved me some memorizing. Basically an un-setup for RD (Speffz O), standard swap for DR (V), then the setup for RD (O). Assuming you haven't already got it down by now and made a full blind success... you're rapidly closing in. Good to have someone else close to the same place in the learning curve.



newtonbase said:


> 3x3 PB average for @kbrune today. Well done!



Also PBs for @teacher77 and @megagoune as their first comps, IIRC. Looks like an excellent debut for both of them.


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## phreaker (Feb 4, 2017)

pglewis said:


> For BU: I found the alg in the description of Noah's execution vid very intuitive so it saved me some memorizing. Basically an un-setup for RD (Speffz O), standard swap for DR (V), then the setup for RD (O). Assuming you haven't already got it down by now and made a full blind success... you're rapidly closing in. Good to have someone else close to the same place in the learning curve.
> 
> 
> 
> Also PBs for @teacher77 and @megagoune as their first comps, IIRC. Looks like an excellent debut for both of them.



I don't expect a BLD success for a few days... at least. More work to do on M2... and practice in general. Then more on memo... So I've got work to do.

Plus I got a new cube in (Gans 356 AIR UM) to distract me a bit and make me practice OH  "First world cubing problems."


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## pipkiksass (Feb 4, 2017)

phreaker said:


> I got a new cube in (Gans 356 AIR UM) to distract me a bit and make me practice OH  "First world cubing problems."



Reviews please!!! ;-)

Just invested in a spare Valk, magnets and glue in the post, but I've only heard excellent things about this cube... from sub-10 cubers who previously used the 356 ultimate. Which, in my eyes, is something of a modest compliment at best - i.e. Putting magnets in my existing main make it more mainworthy.

*re-reads what he's just written and realises this is exactly what he himself is doing*

*rues the day when the :fp emoticon was removed from Speedsolving.com due to excess troll abuse*

But seriously, I genuinely want to hear honest reviews of magnetic cubes from non-teenage-youcubers who aren't the type to jump on bandwagons, and aren't just "first impressions" or "unboxings", but rather "I've been using this cube, as opposed to its non-magnetic predecessor, for n weeks, and after x solves I believe it has had a positive effect/no effect/purely placebo/go out and spend $50 on this cube RIGHT NOW!

But without the shouting, perhaps?

All this blind talk is seriously tempting me to join the dark side!!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## mark49152 (Feb 4, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> The issue I have is that there's too big a risk of making a mistake undoing that many setups. I'd rather take 5s more and be safe doing 2 at a time. Unless they are all on top already of course!


They were easy ones. I can't remember exactly, but L F2 setup or something like that. No I wouldn't try to set up all four either


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## phreaker (Feb 4, 2017)

pipkiksass said:


> Reviews please!!! ;-)
> 
> Just invested in a spare Valk, magnets and glue in the post, but I've only heard excellent things about this cube... from sub-10 cubers who previously used the 356 ultimate. Which, in my eyes, is something of a modest compliment at best - i.e. Putting magnets in my existing main make it more mainworthy.
> 
> ...



I'll review the Gans when I have enough solves, and used it enough to have a "good" opinion on it. TBH, I can tell I'm not used to it yet... so I don't feel I can give it a proper review... it takes time to adjust to a new cube, set it up... etc. And I've done none of those things.

Instead: Here's a Valk M review .

I've been using a Valk M for about a month now. Using "ring" magnets I bought for another project that totally flopped.

They work out to be ~N42/N44 strength, I heard the normal N50s I had around would be a bit "much", according to many.

That's the cube I use for everything.

Lube: Traxxas 50k on the core, Traxxas 10k on the pieces, but JUST enough to stop the plastic against plastic feel.. .not much more.

I think the real comparison is "What do magnets do?" So let's start with a "Valk" and my feelings there. Honestly, I think it is the best cube out there today. It just has no major flaws. It doesn't do unexpected things. If you get a bit sloppy turning, it warns you about it before rapping you on the wrist with a lockup, because you went one more degree off. So you really can "feel" where the edge of performance is. My main complaint was at the REALLY loose tensions I use for OH, it was unusable for 2H, and it tended to corner twist.

Adding magnets:

The corner twists just don't happen. The cube is more "stable" in my hand, not that I can't screw up and destabilize it, but even transitioning R/L' turns OH, I can keep things stable. (OLL 25 is a classic OLL where I face the issue... I do it as L' R U R' U' L U' R' U R, OH.)

The cube also makes my turning more "accurate". It nicely tends to "stop" where I want it to. Which ironically only amplifies the "stable" "cubic" feel the magnets give. Now the Valk, also offers enough resistance, and "feel" that I can use it for BLD, and 2H. So it made the cube more versatile too.

The magnetic Valk is a great cube. I don't hesitate to recommend it... especially in stickerless, which I love.

My little album on my Valk: http://imgur.com/a/cnJqq

TL;DR:

I'll review the Gans when I have enough solves on it to do an honest review.

Magnetic Valks, are GREAT.


----------



## newtonbase (Feb 5, 2017)

I magnetised my GTS tonight. I used 2 x N35 on each face to keep it nice and symmetrical. Initial impressions are that I have gone way over the top with the strength but I'll loosen and lube it tomorrow and go for the WR.


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## newtonbase (Feb 5, 2017)

pipkiksass said:


> All this blind talk is seriously tempting me to join the dark side!!!


!!!ti oD


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## pipkiksass (Feb 5, 2017)

phreaker said:


> I'll review the Gans when I have enough solves, and used it enough to have a "good" opinion on it. TBH, I can tell I'm not used to it yet... so I don't feel I can give it a proper review... it takes time to adjust to a new cube, set it up... etc. And I've done none of those things.


Oh thank god, not another YT style review of "here's me having done 12 solves with this cube". I did a YT search for Gans 356 UM review today, and that's literally all there is. That plus a few sub-10 solvers knocking out round-about PB averages, but nothing overly special for them... Instead we get what I was REALLY hoping for...



phreaker said:


> Here's a Valk M review .


So now I interrogate you, in true Colditz style! Could you tell me the size of your ring magnets that you used for your Valk? I've been planning on using DMCubing's YT tutorial, which covers safe dismantling, and also briefly discusses magnet strength. He recommends 4x2mm N35s, but if your N42/44s are smaller they may be of comparable strength. I've got a magnetic strength conversion website bookmarked, so...

Also, he mentions stickerless plastic seems to be a little thinner (my experience also, especially given the way light penetrates stickerless 4x4+ edges). This project will be a little more pushed for time than I'd hope, so I'd ideally like to get it "right first time", although I appreciate that strength of magnets (much like sticker shades, cube choice, and tensions) will be a largely subjective thing. 

Also, how's the blu-tac going? I've been wondering this since you first posted your gallery. I'm not generally clumsy with cubes - I don't drop them much (although I dropped my first Valk and chipped a corner, which practically made me cry). Have you had any droppages? If so, have you noticed any magnets working their way loose? I'd be particularly concerned about having to re-do one of the fragile corner assemblies - I'd say I'm more likely to snap a plastic prong than to drop a cube!!!

I suppose (clearly it would take me twice as long if I wanted to mess about with such things) that I could always buy 50x N35s and 50x N42s, and install one set, then up/downgrade if I felt the magnets were too strong/weak. Again, advantages of blu-tac over glue, I guess!

Do you have any intention to eventually replace the blu-tac with glue, or is it a permanent thing?

I share your love for the Valk, hence buying my 3rd to magnetise, and it's the only 3x3 I've bought since returning to cubing late last year. I'd love to do it justice, and any advice you can share would be massively appreciated.

TIA.


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## pglewis (Feb 5, 2017)

pipkiksass said:


> All this blind talk is seriously tempting me to join the dark side!!!



If you're truly interested, do it. I really only set out to dip my toe in the water but discovered getting started was a lot easier than expected. OP corners is just Y perm (or actually as it taught me, Y perm is just one OP corner case). M2 isn't much harder to learn the mechanics.


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## pipkiksass (Feb 5, 2017)

pglewis said:


> If you're truly interested, do it. I really only set out to dip my toe in the water but discovered getting started was a lot easier than expected. OP corners is just Y perm (or actually as it taught me, Y perm is just one OP corner case). M2 isn't much harder to learn the mechanics.



My main problem is time - I'm soon going to be returning to work after 6 months off, but that's 6 months of generally feeling crappy and unproductive. I want to magnetise my new Valk, improve at 4x4, finish OLL (nearly there), take a second look at WV, improve at 5x5, and ABOVE ALL, not give up cubing again due to the time constraints of having a job, commuting by car everywhere, and having an exceptionally demanding 4 year old who is hella cute and wants to spend every waking moment playing with daddy. I've had to be harsh the last 18 months, because my body hasn't been up to much play, so now I owe her big time.

More than slightly concerned that BLD is a step too far for me right now... but soooooo tempted!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## phreaker (Feb 5, 2017)

pipkiksass said:


> Oh thank god, not another YT style review of "here's me having done 12 solves with this cube". I did a YT search for Gans 356 UM review today, and that's literally all there is. That plus a few sub-10 solvers knocking out round-about PB averages, but nothing overly special for them... Instead we get what I was REALLY hoping for...



I can tell you, it doesn't full cut out of the box. . (Yes, my turning is bad enough to lock up a Gans 356 AIR.)

I'm still really adjusting to the feel of the cube.



> So now I interrogate you, in true Colditz style! Could you tell me the size of your ring magnets that you used for your Valk? I've been planning on using DMCubing's YT tutorial, which covers safe dismantling, and also briefly discusses magnet strength. He recommends 4x2mm N35s, but if your N42/44s are smaller they may be of comparable strength. I've got a magnetic strength conversion website bookmarked, so...



Actually, the N42/44 is the approximation as if they were 4x2s. I used 5.0mm outer, 1.5mm inner, 1.5mm thickness N50 magnets. If you try to figure out how they compare to the normal 4x2s, it isn't easy... and they feel very different from the ones in the AIR, I'll tell you that.



> Also, he mentions stickerless plastic seems tobe a little thinner (my experience also, especially given the way light penetrates stickerless 4x4+ edges). This project will be a little more pushed for time than I'd hope, so I'd ideally like to get it "right first time", although I appreciate that strength of magnets (much like sticker shades, cube choice, and tensions) will be a largely subjective thing.



No idea on stickerless vs. stickered, I only have stickerless Valks. So "no help here" I will say, stickers make a cube "feel" thicker, IMHO.



> Also, how's the blu-tac going? I've been wondering this since you first posted your gallery. I'm not generally clumsy with cubes - I don't drop them much (although I dropped my first Valk and chipped a corner, which practically made me cry). Have you had any droppages? If so, have you noticed any magnets working their way loose? I'd be particularly concerned about having to re-do one of the fragile corner assemblies - I'd say I'm more likely to snap a plastic prong than to drop a cube!!!



It has been my main for a month. I very commonly fidget with my cube doing sexy moves OH, or PLLs. Just anything to try and help my hand strength.

I've probably dropped it onto carpet by now... several times. No problems.

If you think about it... at "rest" the blu tack doesn't have to actually support anything, the magnets attract each other. There's not much the blu tack has to do. I see no need to go back in "yet".

Have I thought a magnet might be a bit loose or off "maybe"? I've thought one side may be a bit different than another, but I'd bet a Valk all 48 magnets are in place still. 

I didn't use any tools to open my corners, and I tried to avoid touching, the prongs. It worked, and I'm pretty confident I could pull the cube apart, and put it back together without harming it... but it is something to be... delicate about. There is a small amount of force and "rocking" of the "foot" involed.



> I suppose (clearly it would take me twice as long if I wanted to mess about with such things) that I could always buy 50x N35s and 50x N42s, and install one set, then up/downgrade if I felt the magnets were too strong/weak. Again, advantages of blu-tac over glue, I guess!
> 
> Do you have any intention to eventually replace the blu-tac with glue, or is it a permanent thing?
> 
> ...



I might make another one instead... I wouldn't risk a cube I really like, and I really like my Valk.

(note: I have ~100 more magnets of that size around the house... so making another cube isn't that big a deal.)


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## pglewis (Feb 5, 2017)

Totally know where you're coming from, @pipkiksass; so many hobbies, so little time. The guitar hobby demands a chunk of time too.


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## kbrune (Feb 5, 2017)

My 10th comp in the books!

Hightlights of the day:
- Beat 2x2 single with a 4.18. Previously 5.86 which extends my 2x2 single PB streak to 5 (if the double 5.86 counts lol)

- Beat 3x3 average with an 18.30. Previously 18.59. Another happy surprise! I did not expect to beat it so quickly. especially since I didn't get any practice time in before my first solve which ended up at 25.xy. Oddly enough I felt relaxed after botching the first solve. as if I had given up hope of getting a good ao5. So I felt pretty relaxed for the last 4. 

- Improved skewb average with a 14.34. Better then expected since my practice average was around 16 seconds.

- Got to meet @megagoune and @teacher77. However briefly. Sorry I didn't have more of a chance to chat. It was quite busy all day with helping out and such.

Near Successes:
- Had a super easy scramble in OH. I rarely make OH cutoffs and if I hadn't fumbled the E perm so badly it would have been my first comp sub 40 sec.

- Same idea for 4x4. I'm not sure if I'd have gotten sub cutoff of 1:15 (would have been close) but one of the 2 scrambles had an easy start. And once I got to my cross edge pairing. one of them was solved already and the other 3 were easy. I messed up everything after that lol.

Thanks for the encouragements all!


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## kbrune (Feb 5, 2017)

pglewis said:


> Totally know where you're coming from, @pipkiksass; so many hobbies, so little time. The guitar hobby demands a chunk of time too.



Very awesome!! Guitar is also on my list of hobbies. Only I've neglected it for quite some time and im afraid I've lost my skills! Very nice video. Im jealous of your skills!


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## h2f (Feb 5, 2017)

I havent cubed a lot last week but I keep practicing predicting first pair. Today I had a nice jump from 17.97 ao50 to to 17.29 ao50. I'm too tired to continue the session.


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## newtonbase (Feb 5, 2017)

pipkiksass said:


> Have you had any droppages? If so, have you noticed any magnets working their way loose?


I know from experience that superglue is not drop proof. I expect that blu tak is less brittle. 



pipkiksass said:


> More than slightly concerned that BLD is a step too far for me right now... but soooooo tempted!!


It takes a lot of time to learn but you can dip in and out. There's no hurry.


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## mafergut (Feb 5, 2017)

h2f said:


> I havent cubed a lot last week but I keep practicing predicting first pair. Today I had a nice jump from 17.97 ao50 to to 17.29 ao50. I'm too tired to continue the session.


Congratulations on that average! All of you keep getting faster while I am stuck at high 18 average. I should go back to practicing 3x3. So many events, so little time.

Sent from my Nexus 4 with Tapatalk


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## phreaker (Feb 5, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> I know from experience that superglue is not drop proof. I expect that blu tak is less brittle.



In fact. I've found the blu tack cube pretty resistant to day to day stuff.

For everyone: Remember, I cube OH, with a stickerless cube. What is one thing you can count on that happens: I drop my cube.


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## phreaker (Feb 5, 2017)

Silly habit question:

Where do you put your cube when you want it near by, but you aren't using it.

Usually my cubes are off in a box to the left of the couch. Except the one I'm using... which tends to be on my shoulder.


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## phreaker (Feb 5, 2017)

pipkiksass said:


> My main problem is time - I'm soon going to be returning to work after 6 months off, but that's 6 months of generally feeling crappy and unproductive. I want to magnetise my new Valk, improve at 4x4, finish OLL (nearly there), take a second look at WV, improve at 5x5, and ABOVE ALL, not give up cubing again due to the time constraints of having a job, commuting by car everywhere, and having an exceptionally demanding 4 year old who is hella cute and wants to spend every waking moment playing with daddy. I've had to be harsh the last 18 months, because my body hasn't been up to much play, so now I owe her big time.
> 
> More than slightly concerned that BLD is a step too far for me right now... but soooooo tempted!!



BLD is actually GREAT for small amounts of time. It doesn't sound it... But there's many small skills you must master. OP corners, M2, basic cycle tracing, and memo.... Never mind parity, etc.

Each of these is a "bite sized" thing in BLD. I've been working on BLD off and on for months. But finally I'm making the charge to get M2 and OP in my hands solidly, which is more like learning a few PLLs.

BLD isn't something you learn in a week.. it is more of a many days of short duration thing, IMHO, at least initially. .


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## mafergut (Feb 5, 2017)

phreaker said:


> Silly habit question:
> Where do you put your cube when you want it near by, but you aren't using it.
> Usually my cubes are off in a box to the left of the couch. Except the one I'm using... which tends to be on my shoulder.


Right now I have all my mains sitting on top of my desk, inside their original boxes, from 2x2 up to 7x7. The rest of my collection is safely kept on a couple drawers and some big boxes (these decorative boxes with pictures of London, New York, etc. you can find in cheap decoration stores).


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## muchacho (Feb 5, 2017)

The other cubes (that I seldom use) are at my desk forming a tower (2 big 3x3, a 5x5, a 4x4, a skewb, a square-1, a 2x2 and a kilominx).


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## mafergut (Feb 5, 2017)

My problem is that my "other" cubes are starting to add up to more than 80  so I cannot just have them all lying around.

And, at long last!!!! I finally got my 1st sub 1 minute 4x4 single. To be honest it was a pretty stupid scramble with white center done and 6-move yellow center, also easy 3FE and L4C, good lookahead on edge pairing and nice no-parities, no-skips 3x3 stage. It seems that I was waiting for a scramble to break the 1min barrier big time  I'm posting the scramble just in case any of you want to try it out.

1. 55.33 L2 Fw' F U' R' Uw2 R L' F' B' U Fw D R2 Uw' F2 R F' U2 Uw' D B' Fw2 Uw D2 U2 Rw' Fw F' L2 Rw' D2 Rw Uw U2 Rw R' D R U

EDIT: Yes, 55.33!!! Who cares about a 59.xx?


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## newtonbase (Feb 5, 2017)

phreaker said:


> Silly habit question:
> 
> Where do you put your cube when you want it near by, but you aren't using it.
> 
> Usually my cubes are off in a box to the left of the couch. Except the one I'm using... which tends to be on my shoulder.


On top of the piano until my wife gets to them. She puts them at the top of the cellar stairs to remind me they belong down there. I put them back on the piano. My main tends to stay on my person.

I've had a play around with my newly magnetised GTS. After loosening it 1.25 turns and bumping up the Maru share price a few points it's pretty good but the magnets are definitely too strong. I've ordered some 4mm x 1.5mm N35 that I'll put in my old GTS that has a missing cap.


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## phreaker (Feb 5, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> On top of the piano until my wife gets to them. She puts them at the top of the cellar stairs to remind me they belong down there. I put them back on the piano. My main tends to stay on my person.
> 
> I've had a play around with my newly magnetised GTS. After loosening it 1.25 turns and bumping up the Maru share price a few points it's pretty good but the magnets are definitely too strong. I've ordered some 4mm x 1.5mm N35 that I'll put in my old GTS that has a missing cap.



Nice... I can see the bit about the cubes wandering back and forth. 

What size/strength magnets are you calling too much in a GTS?


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## newtonbase (Feb 5, 2017)

phreaker said:


> Nice... I can see the bit about the cubes wandering back and forth.
> 
> What size/strength magnets are you calling too much in a GTS?


2 sets of 4mm x 2mm N35 (4 per edge, 6 per corner).


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## phreaker (Feb 5, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> 2 sets of 4mm x 2mm N35 (4 per edge, 6 per corner).



Did you try just one? 2xN35... That'd be pretty heavy.


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## mafergut (Feb 5, 2017)

Do you know that with all this discussion about magnets you're sparking the urge of getting a magnetic 3x3 in me? 
I know that sooner or later I'll buy or make one. Do you think it's easy enough to make it? I wouldn't want to pay $50 for one if I can easily make it myself and SCS kits cost only $8 or so, plus $13 for a Valk3 it's less than half the price.

I completed my stickerless collection of "cubic" mains. Just got my new WuJi out of the box, mixed it for a while and solved it once. Instant main over my stickered Aofu GT. I also dropped my 7x7 PB single by 1min 30seconds without having solved a 7x7 for maybe 2-3 months  It's clear that 5x5 and 6x6 practice helps improve 7x7. I'm still over 10min anyway so, a lot of room for improvement.

It's curious that, of all the WuXXX cubes I bought all of them became new mains except for the 6x6. Here I like the smaller Yuxin Red better than the WuHua. I think the only "main contender" cubic puzzle that QiYi is missing right now is a 2x2.


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## phreaker (Feb 5, 2017)

mafergut said:


> Do you know that with all this discussion about magnets you're sparking the urge of getting a magnetic 3x3 in me?
> I know that sooner or later I'll buy or make one. Do you think it's easy enough to make it? I wouldn't want to pay $50 for one if I can easily make it myself and SCS kits cost only $8 or so, plus $13 for a Valk3 it's less than half the price.



If you do it with blu tack... It is easy, because if you make a mistake... you just undo it.  Trust me, I made a good few on my Valk and it was my second magnetic cube, attempt. The first, is truly horrible. The second... is quite good.

For the magnets, ebay works too . I got mine from ebay. I should look at a cube order at some point... but I think I want an excuse like a 1st BLD success or something.



> I completed my stickerless collection of "cubic" mains. Just got my new WuJi out of the box, mixed it for a while and solved it once. Instant main over my stickered Aofu GT. I also dropped my 7x7 PB single by 1min 30seconds without having solved a 7x7 for maybe 2-3 months  It's clear that 5x5 and 6x6 practice helps improve 7x7. I'm still over 10min anyway so, a lot of room for improvement.
> 
> It's curious that, of all the WuXXX cubes I bought all of them became new mains except for the 6x6. Here I like the smaller Yuxin Red better than the WuHua. I think the only "main contender" cubic puzzle that QiYi is missing right now is a 2x2.



Interesting! And cool. I should look at getting a new Wuque... I think mine might be from the defective batch. But even that one is a nice cube. I'd love to try a non-defective one, with maybe some DNM-37 lubing it.


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## h2f (Feb 5, 2017)

mafergut said:


> Congratulations on that average! All of you keep getting faster while I am stuck at high 18 average. I should go back to practicing 3x3. So many events, so little time.



Thanks I'm more than surprised. I think it's an effect of the break from cubing.

Nice progress in 4x4.


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## pipkiksass (Feb 5, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> 2 sets of 4mm x 2mm N35 (4 per edge, 6 per corner).



Did you also do a Valk earlier? I'm second guessing myself about magnet strength, and need to get them ordered - Valk ready, blu tax ready, just holding fire on magnets till I'm happy with strength. May go slightly higher than N35, because I turn really sloppily!!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## mafergut (Feb 5, 2017)

phreaker said:


> If you do it with blu tack... [...]
> I should look at a cube order at some point... but I think I want an excuse like a 1st BLD success or something.
> Interesting! And cool. I should look at getting a new Wuque... I think mine might be from the defective batch. But even that one is a nice cube. I'd love to try a non-defective one, with maybe some DNM-37 lubing it.


Mmmm, you make it look like an easy way to spoil a Valk3. How do you apply the blu tack? I assume around the magnet and not between the magnet and the plastic surface 

BLD is something I keep procrastinating but, yeah, the 1st BLD success is always memorable. Keep pushing!

I'm torn apart between DNM-37 and Silk. Maybe I'll get both  For now I'm using some Maru I had lying around to loosen up the WuQue a bit. If DNM-37 works equally well and lasts more than 1 day it will be a good investment  But, for $9 a bottle I am probably better off buying a new WuQue as mine seems also to be defective. I was almost sure but then I watched @SpeedCubeReview latest video comparison and he says not all the WuQue's with white inner parts are "defective" and not all with coloured inner parts are "good" so I don't know what to think anymore. Mine has white internals and it surely feels like the "defective" ones. Maybe I'll wait and see if Qiyi makes an equally good 60mm "mini" version. Then I would have the perfect excuse to buy it


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## newtonbase (Feb 5, 2017)

phreaker said:


> Did you try just one? 2xN35... That'd be pretty heavy.


It is quite heavy. 


pipkiksass said:


> Did you also do a Valk earlier?


I was going to but couldn't work out how to do it with single magnets. If you can't put a magnet in a central position on the side of the piece you'll get some misalignment issues when it is unsolved which bothers me. 
Here's the GTS


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## phreaker (Feb 5, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> It is quite heavy.
> 
> I was going to but couldn't work out how to do it with single magnets. If you can't put a magnet in a central position on the side of the piece you'll get some misalignment issues when it is unsolved which bothers me.
> Here's the GTS View attachment 7450



Actually, magnets need to be placed 90 degree rotational symmetric, they don't need to be symmetric in the piece!

Look at my Valk pictures... you'll see I only put one magnet per "third" in. Thus the magnet is "off-center" when the cube is assembled.

As long as the magnet is in the same spot in each piece... it'll be ok. Try it with some blu-tack and another cube, you'll see what I mean.

Always start with one corner "piece", and one edge "piece", together as if they were on the cube... then make a new edge and a new corner from them.... etc.

For "The Valk" you'll end up with one magnet per "corner slice", and one magnet per "edge slice" for a capped cube, you'll end up with 3 magnets in a corner, and 2 in an edge.


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## newtonbase (Feb 5, 2017)

phreaker said:


> Actually, magnets need to be placed 90 degree rotational symmetric, they don't need to be symmetric in the piece!
> 
> Look at my Valk pictures... you'll see I only put one magnet per "third" in. Thus the magnet is "off-center" when the cube is assembled.
> 
> ...


Do you have a link to the pictures?


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## phreaker (Feb 5, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> Do you have a link to the pictures?



http://imgur.com/a/cnJqq

I never did take the shot of the edge 1/3rd + corner half aligned, that is key to assembly. My bad.

I used "DMCuber"'s video to give me advice: 



 .

The key to actually doing the Valk positioning, is work on the "edge" first. Position the magnet at where the bottom left "peg" meets the base of the edge. The magnet should rest against the left face, the "peg" and the base of the edge.

If you do that, then you can place every edge properly, but I'd recommend only placing one at first, and then trying a corner. The corner should go between the "florian hole" and the slats that hold the edge together The right spot for 5mm magnets, literally felt like it was about the only spot you could put the magnet sanely  If you look.. there isn't much space in my case... you'll have more with 4mm magnets. Note the magnet will be against the "bottom" of the piece, because it is against the bottom of the edge.

To check if you have it "right". Play with the "edge" and "corner" pieces, once they are togeher. You'll see that the corner overlaps the edge just a LITTLE bit. You can use that overlap to check that you got the alignment right. You want it all to be nice and flush.

I actually had a little stick I used to move the magnets around if I wasn't happy... and if I got real unhappy, I'd grab a small knife, which would attract the magnet, and clean out the blu tack... then try again.

I had to do that a few times. Each time I remember thinking "That's why I used blu tack!" (Probably on about 5 of the 48 magnets. But if I did it with glue, I would have needed to buy a second Valk... never mind that I wasn't 100% sold on these magnets when I put them in.)

Once the cube is together, each turn should have "one click", you shouldn't feel all 4 magnets separately. My first attempt (A Gans 356v2, that I glued, and made out of two cubes...) feels like that. It is horrible. One click. It should just move, and "stop", like one force is stopping it.


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## newtonbase (Feb 5, 2017)

phreaker said:


> http://imgur.com/a/cnJqq
> 
> I never did take the shot of the edge 1/3rd + corner half aligned, that is key to assembly. My bad.
> 
> ...


One thing I like about glue is that the magnets can align themselves. The downside is that sometimes they jump and align themselves on top of another magnet and I have have to pull them apart before the glue sets. I did lose a few. 
Using 2 per face does mean that you have 3 sweet spots (clicks) rather than one. There are 2 outer ones where just one magnet from each piece attracts and then the stronger spot where they both do. 
The cube is quite nice for 3BLD, especially M2 but would be nicer with weaker magnets as I feel I have to push a little harder on my OP Y perms.


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## phreaker (Feb 5, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> One thing I like about glue is that the magnets can align themselves. The downside is that sometimes they jump and align themselves on top of another magnet and I have have to pull them apart before the glue sets. I did lose a few.
> Using 2 per face does mean that you have 3 sweet spots (clicks) rather than one. There are 2 outer ones where just one magnet from each piece attracts and then the stronger spot where they both do.
> The cube is quite nice for 3BLD, especially M2 but would be nicer with weaker magnets as I feel I have to push a little harder on my OP Y perms.



I did my Gans 356v2 like you mention... but I can tell you the magnets drifted over time, and it didn't work as well as one might hope.

If you like the three click effect... go for it. I have an odd feeling it'd drive me crazy. I'd rather use a wider magnet, to make a larger sweet spot, but it all comes down to personal preference on this stuff.

But I do like magnets for BLD.... there's something reassuring about the feel. Magnets are here to stay... But now there's another thing that will affect feel, and the way cubes behave... and we may not be able to adjust them easily. The last thing most people need is ANOTHER thing to get right in cube setup .


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## pipkiksass (Feb 5, 2017)

I'll chime in once more - just ordered N35s, as the store I was looking at on eBay has a choice of N35 or N52, so I'll start with the 35s. Magnets cost £3.17 with free 1st class postage(!?!?!?!), and the Blu-Tac I already have - I bought an extra Valk when I ordered my WuQue last week, so I'll be ready to go on Tuesday, woohoo!

I'm going with Blu-Tac for starters. Not sure, @phreaker, by what you mean about the corner/edge play and overlap, but I was intending to use DMCuber's tutorial anyway, so my plan was to carefully place the magnet at the base of the 'peg' in the edge, then line it up with the corner. Rather than (per DMCuber) leaving it to dry, etc., as this isn't necessary with Blu-Tac, I thought I'd just pair all the corners and edges up, then go for it. I'm sure I'll see what you mean when I get started! 

My theory, in response to @mafergut's query about Blu-Tac placement, is that you have to place the magnet first, then basically build a small capsule of Blu-Tac around it, otherwise you have no consistency in magnet strength. @phreaker had the benefit of ring magnets, which means the magnet can be set flush against the plastic, despite Blu-Tac lying underneath, but my magnets are discs, so I'll place the magnet in the edge, pair it up with a corner, mould Blu-Tac over the magnet in the edge (using the corner and magnet to hold everything in place), then repeat with the corner. 

Any ideas about whether this might actually work in practice (and, if not, why not) would be appreciated. IMHO it should be a fairly rapid process as a whole. No curing or waiting, just a lot of patience for pairing up magnets, etc..

I'll be sure to document the whole thing, which will hopefully be done on Wednesday.


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## phreaker (Feb 5, 2017)

@pipkiksass You'll see when you have it apart and play with the pieces. There's just some things that have to be felt.

DMCuber's tutorial is the way to go.

I always test pieces against pieces from other pairs...etc... to make sure I'm not making mistakes. 

Also I thought the way blu-tack worked... you wanted to maximize the surface area of contact, that's why I chose under. I'll be interested in how yours turns out!


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## JohnnyReggae (Feb 6, 2017)

mafergut said:


> Mmmm, you make it look like an easy way to spoil a Valk3. How do you apply the blu tack? I assume around the magnet and not between the magnet and the plastic surface
> 
> BLD is something I keep procrastinating but, yeah, the 1st BLD success is always memorable. Keep pushing!
> 
> I'm torn apart between DNM-37 and Silk. Maybe I'll get both  For now I'm using some Maru I had lying around to loosen up the WuQue a bit. If DNM-37 works equally well and lasts more than 1 day it will be a good investment  But, for $9 a bottle I am probably better off buying a new WuQue as mine seems also to be defective. I was almost sure but then I watched @SpeedCubeReview latest video comparison and he says not all the WuQue's with white inner parts are "defective" and not all with coloured inner parts are "good" so I don't know what to think anymore. Mine has white internals and it surely feels like the "defective" ones. Maybe I'll wait and see if Qiyi makes an equally good 60mm "mini" version. Then I would have the perfect excuse to buy it


I ordered some DNM-37 almost 2 weeks ago and it still hasn't shipped. Starting to get a little annoyed with the service, or lack thereof from TheCubicle. Tried contacting them but the answer I got was less than adequate. Shipping to South Africa takes at least 2 months and another 2 weeks on top of that is just frustrating, especially when they've already taken my money.


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## pipkiksass (Feb 6, 2017)

phreaker said:


> I thought the way blu-tack worked... you wanted to maximize the surface area of contact, that's why I chose under. I'll be interested in how yours turns out!



Yup, you're absolutely right, my thought is as little as possible (read: none) actually UNDER the magnet, which is secured by (imagination please) the ring of Blu-Tac around the outside, then the 'dome' of each Blu-Tac capsule acts as the shock absorber.

So, in effect, where you have a ring magnet with Blu-Tac in the centre, I have slightly weaker magnets in the centre, with a ring of Blu-Tac round the outside!!!

Interested to see how it turns out, but if there's very little mess I can always scrap the Blu-Tac and grab some glue if surface area cohesion is inadequate...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## mafergut (Feb 6, 2017)

Very interesting video tutorials by DMCuber, thanks @phreaker. Now it have a much clearer idea of the steps involved in magnetizing a cube but, oh boy, those Valk3 corner prongs do look fragile. Maybe I should start by magnetizing one of those 6 MF3RS I got last week... or just wait until magnetic cubes are mass produced in some months? 

Also, continuing with my streak of 4x4 PBs, I got a new PB Ao5 of 1:08.74.


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## pipkiksass (Feb 6, 2017)

OK, so the more I think about it, the less convinced I am that Blu-Tac will work for disc magnets. 

I have 12 hours till the only opportunity I'll have in the next week to purchase some Gorilla Glue. Interested to hear others' thoughts - should I go for Blu-Tac or glue. Worst case scenario, I ruin a spare Valk and £3 worth of magnets with some glue, I'm just ever so slightly concerned that Blu-Tac will add a little more weight than would be ideal, and might not provide sufficient stickiness for my N35s without some surface contact (which I think might lead to them being too weak).

Ugh!

@mafergut, nice 4x4 progress. I'm envious - that sub-1 is still eluding me.


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## pglewis (Feb 6, 2017)

I broke out the timer for the first time in ages with the next comp coming up in a month. I haven't been spamming OLLs or hammering on cross like I'd planned, just some slow solves recently after a couple weeks of focus on blind. I set my sights on dropping my Ao12 today, which did happen, but I also unexpectedly nudged my Ao5 ever so closer to :30. Still want to drop that Ao12 an additional second or two, I know I got it in me.


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## megagoune (Feb 6, 2017)

First competition report: Montreal Open Winter 2017

This was great. I really enjoyed it.
The energy is amazing, I talked to many people. I met @kbrune, but somehow missed @teacher77! How did that happen?? I think I went around and talked to everyone that looked "old" 
I went with my 2 daughters who had fun as well. They were recording me, and were super impressed (as I was) by the 5.79 of Bill Wang.

I am also super happy with my results.
3x3 (best/average): 21.17 / 24.31.
pyraminx: 12.72 / 13.91
4x4: 3:11.27

The times are really good for me, I think better than a random a05 at home. 
I find that in a competition setting, it really boosts your focus. I agree with @Jason Green that using the timer is actually easier than using the space bar on the computer. And also, the format is great, the fact that you have a little pause between each solve is beneficial.

I think the only thing that could have been better is the sitting arrangement. They were really few seats and no tables. Lots of people were just sitting on the floor.

In conclusion, I would say that I will definitely go to some other competition. But I will practice 4x4 before going 
When I reached 1:15 (the cut-off) in my second solve, the judge told me "You're eliminated". After I looked at him puzzled, he said "but you can continue your solve if you want". That was funny.


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## newtonbase (Feb 7, 2017)

megagoune said:


> First competition report: Montreal Open Winter 2017
> 
> This was great. I really enjoyed it.
> The energy is amazing, I talked to many people. I met @kbrune, but somehow missed @teacher77! How did that happen?? I think I went around and talked to everyone that looked "old"
> ...


Glad you enjoyed yourself. Your judge should not have done that.


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## Jason Green (Feb 7, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> Glad you enjoyed yourself. Your judge should not have done that.


If you reach the hard cut you are actually supposed to be stopped, they don't always do it though. I have an official OH single of 1:02 which was over the hard cut. 

I haven't been on a while so it may be too late, but I'll say what I did before on magnets. I love them! Definitely worth the $50 for my Valk M to me. I felt like it took half second of my average just because I don't flub algs as much. I say "felt like" because who knows how much of it was just being about to make an improvement jump anyway.


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## teacher77 (Feb 7, 2017)

kbrune said:


> - Got to meet @megagoune and @teacher77. However briefly. Sorry I didn't have more of a chance to chat. It was quite busy all day with helping out and such.



It was nice meeting you too !

This was my first comp and I can't begin to say how bad it went. My Ao5 was 37 seconds : while I almost never get above 30 at home, all my solves were above 30 at the comp. I was very nervous but also was destabilized by a few small things. I'll know all of those the next time, leaving a lot of room for improvement.

Anyone knows when the next Mtl (or Ottawa) events are ?


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## teacher77 (Feb 7, 2017)

megagoune said:


> I talked to many people. I met @kbrune, but somehow missed @teacher77! How did that happen??



I can't beleive this happened. I was impossible to miss : probably the most nervous guy in town. Both my hands were shaking during each and every solve. I was in 3x3 group 6.

Let's repair that : I'll add you on facebook and we can chat if you want.

By your Ao5, I get that your name is Jérôme ? I'm Mathieu.


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## JohnnyReggae (Feb 7, 2017)

pipkiksass said:


> Yup, you're absolutely right, my thought is as little as possible (read: none) actually UNDER the magnet, which is secured by (imagination please) the ring of Blu-Tac around the outside, then the 'dome' of each Blu-Tac capsule acts as the shock absorber.
> 
> So, in effect, where you have a ring magnet with Blu-Tac in the centre, I have slightly weaker magnets in the centre, with a ring of Blu-Tac round the outside!!!
> 
> ...


Personally I would go with the glue option. We have a similar product to Blu-tac called Prestik ... My kids love the stuff, they stick it to everything .... For a more permanent solution I think that glue would be a better option. The blu-tac will add some additional weight to the extra weight of the magnets already. The only thing with blu-tac is that it gives you the option of stripping everything and doing it again.


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## newtonbase (Feb 7, 2017)

teacher77 said:


> It was nice meeting you too !
> 
> This was my first comp and I can't begin to say how bad it went. My Ao5 was 37 seconds : while I almost never get above 30 at home, all my solves were above 30 at the comp. I was very nervous but also was destabilized by a few small things. I'll know all of those the next time, leaving a lot of room for improvement.
> 
> Anyone knows when the next Mtl (or Ottawa) events are ?


First comps are about the experience and setting targets for next time.


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## pipkiksass (Feb 7, 2017)

JohnnyReggae said:


> Personally I would go with the glue option. We have a similar product to Blu-tac called Prestik ... My kids love the stuff, they stick it to everything .... For a more permanent solution I think that glue would be a better option. The blu-tac will add some additional weight to the extra weight of the magnets already. The only thing with blu-tac is that it gives you the option of stripping everything and doing it again.


Yeah, exactly the pros and cons I'm trying to mentally balance!!!

I'm buying some glue. What's the worst that can happen?!??!?!? Images to follow.


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## mafergut (Feb 7, 2017)

pipkiksass said:


> Yeah, exactly the pros and cons I'm trying to mentally balance!!!
> 
> I'm buying some glue. What's the worst that can happen?!??!?!? Images to follow.


After watching DMCuber videos I also think the best must be what he recommends after so many trials. Not sure I can find that Gorilla SuperGlue, though, and the super-glue I have dries too fast. I have been also checking 4mmx2mm magnets on eBay and, hey, you can find packs of 50 or 100 for like $2, much cheaper than SCS kit but I can only seem to find either N35 or N52, not N48. Will try with N35 if I decide to experiment 

By the way, I just beat one of my longest standing PBs, from more than a year ago (Dec 2015). 2x2 Ao100 down to 5.38 from 5.43. Yeah, I know, 0.05 is not much  To be honest I have not been practising a lot of 2x2 during the whole last year.


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## chtiger (Feb 7, 2017)

teacher77 said:


> This was my first comp and I can't begin to say how bad it went. My Ao5 was 37 seconds : while I almost never get above 30 at home, all my solves were above 30 at the comp. I was very nervous but also was destabilized by a few small things. I'll know all of those the next time, leaving a lot of room for improvement.



My first comp I had a 45.46 avg when I was averaging about 26 at home, so you aren't alone. With your first comp jitters out of the way, you should be a lot less nervous next time and do much better.


I just got my first sub-20 Ao12.
avg12: 19.67 -- 17.38, 17.89, 21.82, 17.70, (35.79), 17.48, (17.19), 20.84, 19.83, 24.34, 18.34, 21.05


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## mafergut (Feb 7, 2017)

chtiger said:


> My first comp I had a 45.46 avg when I was averaging about 26 at home, so you aren't alone. With your first comp jitters out of the way, you should be a lot less nervous next time and do much better.
> 
> 
> I just got my first sub-20 Ao12.
> avg12: 19.67 -- 17.38, 17.89, 21.82, 17.70, (35.79), 17.48, (17.19), 20.84, 19.83, 24.34, 18.34, 21.05


Then, if I want to get a sub-20 average in my first comp I'd better be sub-WR at home!


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## pipkiksass (Feb 7, 2017)

mafergut said:


> Then, if I want to get a sub-20 average in my first comp I'd better be sub-WR at home!


Aren't we all sub-WR at home? 


mafergut said:


> After watching DMCuber videos I also think the best must be what he recommends after so many trials. Not sure I can find that Gorilla SuperGlue, though, and the super-glue I have dries too fast. I have been also checking 4mmx2mm magnets on eBay and, hey, you can find packs of 50 or 100 for like $2, much cheaper than SCS kit but I can only seem to find either N35 or N52, not N48. Will try with N35 if I decide to experiment


Got my gorilla glue this afternoon. May start work tonight, if not tomorrow. Can't wait, to be honest, even if it just results in a scrap Valk! First time I've modded a cube since Florian-ing a Zhanchi about 4 years ago...


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## teacher77 (Feb 7, 2017)

On the positive side : new PB today, Ao10 = 26.01 sec, down from 26.17 sec.

25, here I come !


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## pglewis (Feb 7, 2017)

megagoune said:


> I think the only thing that could have been better is the sitting arrangement. They were really few seats and no tables. Lots of people were just sitting on the floor.



That's very unfortunate. I've only been to two comps but both had ample practice tables. I can only imagine the amount of work and the number of checklist items that organizers have to deal with, but at the same time one oversight like this can taint the experience for competitors. 



megagoune said:


> When I reached 1:15 (the cut-off) in my second solve, the judge told me "You're eliminated". After I looked at him puzzled, he said "but you can continue your solve if you want".



I assume 1:15 isn't the hard cutoff so the judge shouldn't have said anything until after the solve (unless you were still going when the hard cutoff was reached, of course). 



teacher77 said:


> This was my first comp and I can't begin to say how bad it went. My Ao5 was 37 seconds : while I almost never get above 30 at home, all my solves were above 30 at the comp.



Some people do well with adrenaline, note @megagoune's comment about competition boosting his focus. My first comp back in Sept: DNF, DNF, 2:20.78, 1:21.74, 1:10.82 . I was comfortably under :40 going into my 2nd comp but still landed 44/48 for single/avg. Still well off my at-home times but much better than the first go-round. 

Mentally do a "postmortem"; take inventory of the things that adversely affected you. Do you need to be more comfortable solving in front of someone watching? Do you need to get accustomed to noise and distractions while solving? Are you in your zone at 4PM but your heat was at 9 or 10AM? Take what you can learn from the experience and then let it go, from a performance standpoint. I personally don't think you did poorly at all; not only do you have official times in the books, you're officially faster than me.  Now to see if I can catch you at _my_ next one .


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## newtonbase (Feb 7, 2017)

mafergut said:


> After watching DMCuber videos I also think the best must be what he recommends after so many trials. Not sure I can find that Gorilla SuperGlue, though, and the super-glue I have dries too fast. I have been also checking 4mmx2mm magnets on eBay and, hey, you can find packs of 50 or 100 for like $2, much cheaper than SCS kit but I can only seem to find either N35 or N52, not N48. Will try with N35 if I decide to experiment


It's hard to find anything between N35 and N52. Other options are using different sized magnets or, as I did on my first attempt, put N52 in the corners and N35 in the edges (as suggested by our own @SenorJuan). 
I use Loctite gel superglue that cost £1. I can do a set of 96 magnets with one tube.


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## megagoune (Feb 7, 2017)

pglewis said:


> I assume 1:15 isn't the hard cutoff so the judge shouldn't have said anything until after the solve (unless you were still going when the hard cutoff was reached, of course).


It was a soft cut off, so he made a mistake. But it's no big deal, I think he realized it, and it had no real consequence for me. I think the judge was just trying to be helpful. He probably thought I would not want to finish my solve if I had no chance to continue in the competition.


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## pipkiksass (Feb 7, 2017)

Phase 1 complete






Around 70 minutes in total to dismantle and glue the 24 magnets into the 1/2 edges, per DMCubing's tutorial. The corner stem piece required more effort than I expected, but equally it's not quite as fragile as I'd built up in my mind! You can use quite a bit of force, but be sensible...

On a couple of occasions, I knocked edges I'd previously assembled, causing the magnets to pop out and rejoin their friends elsewhere. Once my "tube" of unused magnets got too close to the working edges, and pulled the magnets out. 

On one occasion, I managed to insert a magnet with the incorrect polarity somehow, but this was immediately apparent, and easily fixed.

Gorilla Glue claims 15 minutes working time, and I'd say that seems to hold true. I'd estimate I've used less than 1/100th of the 115ml pot I bought today, and could definitely do another 50 cubes (cost £7).

Once you're on a roll, I reckon you could knock these out VERY quickly, in the end I was smearing glue on 4 edges, inserting 4 magnets, then dropping extra glue on all 4 in turn, but careful you don't rush and knock things. If I'd known what I was doing from the start, this could have been done in 30-45 mins; if you have multiple cubes, perhaps 20-30 mins per cube.

Polarities are all definitely right, just remains to be seen what happens when I get to the corners tomorrow. Overall, it's been a very enjoyable and relatively low-stress experience, so far!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## mark49152 (Feb 7, 2017)

megagoune said:


> He probably thought I would not want to finish my solve if I had no chance to continue in the competition.


You could have been on for a single PB. It's poor judging and if I'd been distracted by it I'd have asked for an extra attempt.


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## newtonbase (Feb 8, 2017)

pipkiksass said:


> Phase 1 complete
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Good job. You definitely have to be organised. Magnets have a life if their own. Can't wait to hear about the end result. My Valk is itching for a bit of rare earth.


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## Jason Green (Feb 8, 2017)

Been relearning my G perms for OH. It reminds me of learning them the first time, I get them mixed up so much worse than others. Most algs are unique enough when they are new I either forget them or not. But with these I think I know it, and then do R instead of R' or U instead of U' or whatever. It's fun to be learning algs though, I should do it more often!


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## CLL Smooth (Feb 8, 2017)

Jason Green said:


> Been relearning my G perms for OH. It reminds me of learning them the first time, I get them mixed up so much worse than others. Most algs are unique enough when they are new I either forget them or not. But with these I think I know it, and then do R instead of R' or U instead of U' or whatever. It's fun to be learning algs though, I should do it more often!


I still make these same mistakes, often mixing up R and R'. I've done it enough to get a visual cue and know when I made the mistake, though. It's always when the 1x2x2 should come together in the U layer. If it doesn't appear when it should I go back and do the R move again.


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## mark49152 (Feb 8, 2017)

Jason Green said:


> Been relearning my G perms for OH. It reminds me of learning them the first time, I get them mixed up so much worse than others. Most algs are unique enough when they are new I either forget them or not. But with these I think I know it, and then do R instead of R' or U instead of U' or whatever. It's fun to be learning algs though, I should do it more often!


I have the same problem with G perms on big cubes. Muscle memory doesn't quite work and I frequently mix up R and R' etc.


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## JohnnyReggae (Feb 8, 2017)

pipkiksass said:


> Phase 1 complete
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Looking good. Keen to see more pics of your process. I've also been through DMCubing's tutorials which are quite concise and seem easy to follow. My new Valk should be arriving later this month ... I hope ... It's been sitting in the north of the country for 2 weeks already. Our postal service is terrible. Can't believe that a package can take 2 weeks to get from the middle of China to Johannesburg, and then takes more than a month to make the 1500km trip from Johannesburg to Cape Town ... sigh ... Then again the magnets that I ordered off eBay have not arrived yet either so I won't be magnetizing anything until they arrive. Received the smaller magnets I ordered some 3mmx2mm ... but they are definitely too small to use. 

Feeling left out with all the magnetized cubes around ... FOMO


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## pipkiksass (Feb 8, 2017)

JohnnyReggae said:


> Looking good. Keen to see more pics of your process. I've also been through DMCubing's tutorials which are quite concise and seem easy to follow. My new Valk should be arriving later this month ... I hope ... It's been sitting in the north of the country for 2 weeks already. Our postal service is terrible. Can't believe that a package can take 2 weeks to get from the middle of China to Johannesburg, and then takes more than a month to make the 1500km trip from Johannesburg to Cape Town ... sigh ... Then again the magnets that I ordered off eBay have not arrived yet either so I won't be magnetizing anything until they arrive. Received the smaller magnets I ordered some 3mmx2mm ... but they are definitely too small to use.
> 
> Feeling left out with all the magnetized cubes around ... FOMO



That sucks, I forget how spoilt we are with next day delivery on stuff in the UK!

So phase 2 took less than 20 minutes, and here's why...






First thing I noticed this morning was that on curing the glue had expanded considerably (as expected) and (again as expected) I'd used far too much. You can see here the difference between a FAIRLY neat edge, and a totally excessive one.






The reason for this is that the dispenser on my Gorilla Glue bottle is about as accurate as a blind sniper. What I decided to do today was to pour a dollop of glue onto the plastic bag my magnets came in, and use this like a paint palette.






Gorilla Glue has the texture of fairly thin honey, and what I did last night with the edges was to paint some on to the surface of the edge (the "destination" spot for the magnet), then attempt to drip some over the top using the tube. What I decided to do this morning was:

1 - paint surface of destination spot on 4x corners




2 - pair up with 4x edges, dropping helper magnet from edge onto destination spot on corner
3 - using a cocktail stick, place a small drop of glue over/around the magnet in the corner piece

This whole process, for a set of 4 corners, takes less than 2 minutes. Seriously, I wish I'd done it last night!

Because of the working time with Gorilla Glue, having poured out enough glue for a dozen corners, I had plenty of time to finish them all without noticing any effect on the glue on my "palette". Then I added some more, and finished the job.

All in all, around 20 minutes this morning (90 minutes in total). I'm confident that, knowing what I now know, I could do a whole cube in around an hour, and make a much better job of it. There may be some trimming of glue and/or sanding required to get the cube turning smoothly.






So that's £16 for a Valk, £3 for magnets, and £7 for glue (but I still have enough for all the magnetic cubes I'd ever care to make). Totally enjoyable project, will see how it handles this afternoon!! 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## JohnnyReggae (Feb 8, 2017)

pipkiksass said:


> That sucks, I forget how spoilt we are with next day delivery on stuff in the UK!
> 
> So phase 2 took less than 20 minutes, and here's why...
> 
> ...


Wow !! Nice job. You're making me jealous. I really want to do this magnetic thing now 

As with all modding it's a good idea to set a process in place and store pieces properly even if it's only 1 or 2.

In the mean time I've been keeping myself busy with another mod project which is close to being finished ... 1 more coat of paint and then stickers, so hopefully tonight or tomorrow night I'll have it done. All depends if the last coat of paint is going to dry tonight ...


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## Shaky Hands (Feb 8, 2017)

pipkiksass said:


>



I saw this from a distance and thought it was a cake with funky icing sugar.


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## Logiqx (Feb 9, 2017)

@megagoune + @teacher77 - great to see you guys have now done an official competition.

Are you eligible for the over-40's rankings? If you are then let me know if you want to be added and ideally let me know your YOB.

@kbrune - you've been competing for a good while now but I'm guessing you're not yet over 40?

Do we have any other regulars missing from the "unofficial official" rankings for the over-40's?


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## pipkiksass (Feb 9, 2017)

So my thoughts on my DIY Valk M...

Initially I was very surprised at how much resistance the magnets create when turning. I went for 4x2mm N35 magnets, which were pretty much the weakest I could find, and when slow-turning there's almost a 'snap' as each turn is completed. When turning faster, it's pretty much not noticeable.

M slices are heavier, for obvious reasons - you're forcing against the strength of 4 magnets, vs 2 for any other face turn. This makes U, Z, and H perms feel odd, but I'm sure I'll get used to them.

Given that I average sub-18 at the moment, I thought I'd try setting the cube up exactly the same as my main Valk (in terms of tensions and lube), and doing an Ao100, which came out at 19.21. This isn't a dismal Ao100 for me, but pretty poor. Best Ao50 was just sub-19 (18.92), that's a full second and a half off my PB.

I've heard that magnetic cubes need to be set up on looser tensions, so I'm going to loosen the cube up a little, but I think that (more than anything else) I just need to get used to the completely different sensation when solving. I had a 15.08 single, and a 16.42 Ao5, but the best Ao12 was 18.12, which is outside my global average. When I have a nice, smooth solve, the cube seems to respond much better. When I get anxious, it seems to slow me down, rather than speeding me up at the moment. I've not had so many sup-20s in a LONG time, and some were a long way over 20.

The cube feels fantastic to turn, so sharp and crisp, and ludicrously stable. I'm going to persist with it, and have a tinker - the project has been a resounding success, but it's not the instant holy grail that perhaps I'd been subconsciously hoping for! I think that, on looser tensions and with more breaking in, it could be a fantastic cube. Perhaps expecting something to be main-worthy "out of the box" (i.e. with no breaking in) was a little optimistic. 

Even if you just do it as an experiment, I can highly recommend magnetising cubes, it's great fun and cheap. I'm pretty sure that my DIY Valk M would compare pretty favourably to a much more expensive one from a mainstream cubing store, and I have the added satisfaction of knowing that I put several hours of my own time into making it.


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## Logiqx (Feb 9, 2017)

Jason Green said:


> Been relearning my G perms for OH. It reminds me of learning them the first time, I get them mixed up so much worse than others. Most algs are unique enough when they are new I either forget them or not. But with these I think I know it, and then do R instead of R' or U instead of U' or whatever. It's fun to be learning algs though, I should do it more often!



I know what you mean about the G-perms. Fortunately I can usually see when I've made the wrong turn and I can go back.

I've found that R-perms have also caused me trouble in the past for OH. I've re-learnt them at least 3 times after taking breaks from OH for over a month and that's always resulted in my forgetting the R-Perms. Cubing whilst windsurfing also had unexpected results with my R / R' turns. I ruined a heap of really good solves by completely messing up my U-perms at the end. My fingers did strange things that they would never do when sitting at my desk!

I presume you use a regular Valk for OH?

I got some new OH PB's earlier today. I haven't done an Ao50 since last October so it's nice to see I'm still sub-30 and ~28s.


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## phreaker (Feb 9, 2017)

Logiqx said:


> I know what you mean about the G-perms. Fortunately I can usually see when I've made the wrong turn and I can go back.



I know that feeling 



> I've found that R-perms have also caused me trouble in the past for OH. I've re-learnt them at least 3 times after taking breaks from OH for over a month and that's always resulted in my forgetting the R-Perms. Cubing whilst windsurfing also had unexpected results with my R / R' turns. I ruined a heap of really good solves by completely messing up my U-perms at the end. My fingers did strange things that they would never do when sitting at my desk!



I had a problem with one of the R's forever... it finally cleared up, and I can do R(a) and R(b). Now, it is practice, practice, practice, and some look ahead work . 



> I presume you use a regular Valk for OH?



Actually, for me, I'm using a Gans AIR UM, or a Valk M . Magnetic cubes REALLY help OH, if you are strong enough to turn them, IMHO.

Then again, my turning may just be that bad 



> I got some new OH PB's earlier today. I haven't done an Ao50 since last October so it's nice to see I'm still sub-30 and ~28s.



Nice... I wish I was going that fast... I need to work on look ahead, and executing EOLine smoothly. (Ironically, the best practice for that may be scrambling a cube OH.


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## phreaker (Feb 9, 2017)

For those waiting on "initial impressions": of the Gans UM:

I've not changed the springs from the purples yet. I suspect I'll be going to Greens or Yellows, long term.

The magnets are not very strong. They are enough to remind you that they are there, and keep things aligned if you aren't too rough, and if you are... it is a Gans AIR U. It'll cope.

I find the cube a BIT quick for my taste. And I like REALLY fast cubes. Corner cutting is not full at the moment, but I put that down to my setup, not the cube, though I have excellent reverse cutting which is what I tend to rely on when I make serious mistakes, in current trim, it'll cut 7/8ths of a cubie in reverse... (Looking from the front, skew as if doing U, and pull down R')

It is my "main"? For BLD, I think it will get there. I'm probably more consistent on my Valk at the moment when I practice drills. But I think the UM has more potential to give better feedback, and just do better. For 2H: If setup right, almost certainly, but I wouldn't call today's setup "right" 

For OH: Time will tell... and it depends on what I want the cube to do... do I want it focused more to OH, and the looser side, or 2H... unclear. Given that I solve 90%+ OH.. I expect that'll be an on-going debate as I go along.

Is it a great cube with a unique feel: Yes.

Is it for everyone: No, it isn't going to convert people who don't like GANS cubes. I happen to like them, or at least am Neutral+ towards them.

Am I getting my times on it: About the same as my Valk M. (Which is about 10% better than a non-magnetic, I'm guessing.)


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## kbrune (Feb 9, 2017)

Logiqx said:


> @megagoune + @teacher77 - great to see you guys have now done an official competition.
> 
> Are you eligible for the over-40's rankings? If you are then let me know if you want to be added and ideally let me know your YOB.
> 
> ...



I'm 37. Still 2 and a half years before I officially qualify for the 40+ list.

@megagoune
Its the same for me. For some reason I've always performed better at competitions. Barring a few where nerves made the cube look like a solid colour during Inspection. It happens where I look at the cube and nothing registers for like 5 seconds. But generally my nervousness or adrenaline. Tends to make my hands more tense and unable to turn fast like I do at home. which means comps force my look ahead to be better. Lucky break for me I suppose.


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## h2f (Feb 9, 2017)

Nice to see all of you are progressing in many events. I must mention I've started learning CLLs - I've realized I start fogetting CMLLs and recognition patterns and I was courious how CLLs work. I'll see if affects my times. Pi and H are memorized now.


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## pipkiksass (Feb 9, 2017)

Just had a LOVELY scramble, which I thought I'd share with you all - R B2 L' U D2 B R' U2 F R' F R U2 B D B2 U2 B F2 D2 L' F' L2 - 13.20

Nice easy cross, managed to preserve first pair and make second pair while watching it. 2-look OLL and still 13.20. The irritating thing is I got an adjacent edges OLL that I know, and can execute at reasonable speed, and 2-looked it because... IDK.

Anyway, it's my Valk M PB, so far, and should've been sub-12 full-step, possibly all-time PB. 

I may be warming to this cube, but it still has a long way to go, or maybe I do...!!! I've done maybe 300 solves on it timed, and maybe another 50 untimed, and it's a thing of wonder, but I just don't seem to get consistently fast times with it. Tell a lie, I do, but my fails seem to be more epic with the M than with the standard Valk - a bad time can be 25+, which would normally be 1/100, but is now maybe 1/20 or worse. 

I have a feeling that a squirt of lube and a few thousand solves, and it'll be great.


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## Shaky Hands (Feb 10, 2017)

pipkiksass said:


> Just had a LOVELY scramble, which I thought I'd share with you all - R B2 L' U D2 B R' U2 F R' F R U2 B D B2 *Y2 *B F2 D2 L' F' L2 - 13.20



?


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## pipkiksass (Feb 10, 2017)

Lmao autocorrect on my iPhone, I'll look up the scramble and post it from my computer tomorrow!!!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Shaky Hands (Feb 10, 2017)

I presume it's U2 since Y and U are next to each other on the keyboard.

If so, I see an easy 3-move cross with (z2) (F2 R' L') then I'd probably do the first 2 pairs using (U R U R2 U' R) (F U2 F').


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## Selkie (Feb 10, 2017)

Just managed to catch up on the thread. So many awesome achievements by you guys. PBs, First comps, comp PBs, MBLD successes, DIY M cubes, Sub 1 4x4 just to name but a few.

Apologies yet again for being absent of late, life seems to be busier during redundancy than working but that must be all the decorating  I will try harder to keep up to date.

Cubing wise I have been concentrating mostly on 6 and 7 with good improvement. I think I am sub 5:50 for 7 and sub 3:50 for 6 globally, just need to convert that to official now.

With the recent loss of a very dear friend not ashamed to say I have been feeling low of late but was great to catch up with @Shaky Hands today for a beer, lunch and a catch up, happy days.


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## CLL Smooth (Feb 10, 2017)

CLL Smooth said:


> First sub-10: 9.514
> F2 U2 R2 F2 L F2 L' B2 U2 F2 D' F2 U F2 L2 R D2 R' B'
> 
> y2 F' R2 D'
> ...


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## Jason Green (Feb 10, 2017)

@Logiqx I use the Valk M for OH now, I don't own a regular one but suspect I'd still prefer the M. 

Did y'all see the cubicle video for beginners? IMO probably the best one yet, I didn't even know you could solve like that!


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## JohnnyReggae (Feb 10, 2017)

Been working on a new mod over the last 2 weeks. Though it's not a hard mod, finding time amongst life is not always easy. Anyway I present the 5x5 Burr/Wall Cube 

I have a couple white Shengshou cubes lying in a draw and after making my 4x4 Burr cube I wanted to make a 5x5 version so figured the white Shengshou would be a good candidate. The Shengshou's are also the only white cubes I have which don't fit with the rest of my black collection so a mod is a great idea for them.

I followed a different process when it came to painting the cube as I did with my 4x4 Burr, and as a result the 5x5 turns amazingly. I also took my time a little more with the glueing and individual piece prep so overall it is a better quality than my 4x4 Burr. I don't know how to solve it yet, but I would hazard a guess that it can't be to much more difficult than the 4x4 Burr which I really enjoy as a solve.

I must say that I quite like my custom shades on the white cube, they go quite well.

  

Slightly "scrambled"  

 

4x4 Burr and 5x5 Burr


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## h2f (Feb 10, 2017)

JohnnyReggae said:


> Been working on a new mod over the last 2 weeks. Though it's not a hard mod, finding time amongst life is not always easy. Anyway I present the 5x5 Burr/Wall Cube
> 
> I have a couple white Shengshou cubes lying in a draw and after making my 4x4 Burr cube I wanted to make a 5x5 version so figured the white Shengshou would be a good candidate. The Shengshou's are also the only white cubes I have which don't fit with the rest of my black collection so a mod is a great idea for them.
> 
> ...



It looks amazing.


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## Logiqx (Feb 10, 2017)

Jason Green said:


> @Logiqx I use the Valk M for OH now, I don't own a regular one but suspect I'd still prefer the M.
> 
> Did y'all see the cubicle video for beginners? IMO probably the best one yet, I didn't even know you could solve like that!



Agreed. The video is very well made and most definitely the best in terms of quality.

It uses Erik Akkersdijk's beginner method from 2011 - https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLD615D55AA4DE3CFC


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## pipkiksass (Feb 10, 2017)

Shaky Hands said:


> I presume it's U2 since Y and U are next to each other on the keyboard.
> 
> If so, I see an easy 3-move cross with (z2) (F2 R' L') then I'd probably do the first 2 pairs using (U R U R2 U' R) (F U2 F').



Yeah, it was just the U2... lovely scramble, eh? Tried to recreate my F2L, but failed to reconstruct. I know it ended up with a "big fish" OLL, which is really frustrating because I know I can sub-2 it at least. My closest "should have been PB" solve ever, stupid lazy 2-look OLL!!! Still, going by Mark's extended naming of methods, I'm really happy with a non-lucky CFOOP solve in 13 seconds!!! [emoji6]

@JohnnyReggae, BEAUTIFUL mods. I know I said this about your last project, but they're just stunning, can't see the joins at all.

Good work on the stickering as well, can imagine that's a nightmare. 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Shaky Hands (Feb 10, 2017)

I made some notes here a week or so back after doing 20 BLD solves. I finished my 100th this lunchtime so thought I'd update on my stats. A bit of practice has helped me out in a good way.

Memo is still my downfall rather than execution when I make mistakes but it's improving and although I'm not timing anything, I can feel I'm getting quicker at it.

Also happy to have finished up with a success rate of 51%. Gives me something to work from as a base and am definitely targeting a competition success next month.


DayAttemptsWrong EdgesWrong CornersAv. Completion %All Edges Good?All Corners Good?All Good?Success %Success Streak18151780.00%55450.00%3216112688.44%127531.25%131310494.62%911753.85%3415353776.00%87533.33%2512131190.00%89866.67%46124496.67%1010866.67%4710111388.00%87770.00%488252770.63%32225.00%19611884.17%55583.33%4Av.11.11/day1.35/solve1.42/solve86.15%/solve68% successes63% successes51.00%51.00%2.88


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## mark49152 (Feb 10, 2017)

Nice work @Shaky Hands and best of luck at Peterborough. Are you using M2/OP?


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## Shaky Hands (Feb 10, 2017)

@mark49152. Thanks. Am using OP for edges and corners at the moment as concentrating on successes rather than times; and my issues are more with memo than execution. I'll probably change after getting a comp success.


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## megagoune (Feb 10, 2017)

Logiqx said:


> @megagoune + @teacher77 - great to see you guys have now done an official competition.
> 
> Are you eligible for the over-40's rankings? If you are then let me know if you want to be added and ideally let me know your YOB.
> 
> ...



I'm born in 75, so I qualify for the over 40's ranking. I've put my WCA id in my profile so you can find my times.
Thanks for maintaining the list.


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## mafergut (Feb 10, 2017)

@JohnnyReggae Wow! You keep amazing me with those beautiful mods. That's two different cube-related hand skills in one person, speedsolving and modding 

@pipkiksass Very nice single! I have had a couple similar frustrations with PB singles that weren't because I messed up something. I am also starting to forget a few OLLs that I have not yet incorporated to big cube solving and, as I barely practice 3x3 lately their are slowly fading away. I have had 3x3 solves this week where I have just stopped solving and left staring at the cube as if I would want him to speak to me and tell me what was the OLL for the case. I have taken my full OLL cheat sheet out from its drawer and I will have to relearn them. I will make sure that I incorporate them to big cube solving as well so I can practice them and avoid forgetting them again.

Talking about big cube practice. Once I graduated sub 1:20 at 4x4 I'm doing a bit of 5x5 and definitely settled for the WuShuang as my main. It's a bit less stable than my Yuxin was but so much more forgiving and I'm now liking a lot the smaller size for 3x3 stage. Got a 2:46.xx PB Ao12 which is PB by almost 5 seconds. Still need to get down to around 2:30 for comparable times to my 4x4 ones.


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## Logiqx (Feb 10, 2017)

megagoune said:


> I'm born in 75, so I qualify for the over 40's ranking. I've put my WCA id in my profile so you can find my times.
> Thanks for maintaining the list.



You've been added.


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## pipkiksass (Feb 10, 2017)

A couple of years back this was just a generic "older" cubers thread... at just 34 I feel like the baby here now!! [emoji6]

Maybe by the time I'm 40 the wife might actually let me come to a comp!!!???




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## kbrune (Feb 10, 2017)

pipkiksass said:


> A couple of years back this was just a generic "older" cubers thread... at just 34 I feel like the baby here now!! [emoji6]
> 
> Maybe by the time I'm 40 the wife might actually let me come to a comp!!!???
> 
> ...



Where you from pip?


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## One Wheel (Feb 11, 2017)

pipkiksass said:


> A couple of years back this was just a generic "older" cubers thread... at just 34 I feel like the baby here now!! [emoji6]



You've got 5 years on me. Don't feel too bad.


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## pipkiksass (Feb 11, 2017)

kbrune said:


> Where you from pip?



Near Birmingham, England. There was a comp about 15 miles from my house 6 weeks ago, but even if my wife would've given me the time off, I couldn't go because I'm immune-compromised due to illness.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## kbrune (Feb 11, 2017)

pipkiksass said:


> Near Birmingham, England. There was a comp about 15 miles from my house 6 weeks ago, but even if my wife would've given me the time off, I couldn't go because I'm immune-compromised due to illness.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Somehow I had it in my mind that you were in the US. Now I have to go back and re-read all of your posts with an English accent!


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## Selkie (Feb 11, 2017)

@Shaky Hands - Great to see you have finished your BLD marathon mate. And over 50% success rate.


Got a few 7x7 PBs yesterday:-
Single: 5:20.40
Mo3: 5:31.18
Ao5: 5:40.02

The Yuxin 7x7 arrived earlier this week but I have to confess I am not a fan of it at all. It is very very sandy and the corner cutting is poor. These times were done on the Qiyi.

Also finding the Qiyi WuHua 6x6 slowing up an awful lot so with a good stock of TC springs arrived from The Cubicle this week I think I will try the Yuxin 6x6 spring swap this weekend. Oh, and the Valk M was dispatched earlier this week too and that order includes a stickerless WeiShi 6x6 so hoping to receive that parcel in the next few days


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## muchacho (Feb 11, 2017)

Not such a fast time that deserves reconstruction, but me seeing the first block in inspection is rare enough. Do you guys always plan your cross?

36827 11-feb-2017 11:03:59 00:14.182 L2 D' L2 D R2 D' R2 U' B2 F2 U2 B' R L F' U' B2 R' B2 D2 R

x2 z'
R B Uw' M U2 B
M U M2 R' U R M' U2 M2 Rw U Rw'
F R U R' U' R U R' U' F'
U' M' U M' U M U M U M' U2 M' M2 U' M' U2 M U2

46 STM


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## mafergut (Feb 11, 2017)

muchacho said:


> Not such a fast time that deserves reconstruction, but me seeing the first block in inspection is rare enough. Do you guys always plan your cross?
> 
> 36827 11-feb-2017 11:03:59 00:14.182 L2 D' L2 D R2 D' R2 U' B2 F2 U2 B' R L F' U' B2 R' B2 D2 R
> 
> ...


I can plan the cross 100% of the time, or maybe 99℅ of the time , but I'm a bit lazy so that the final center adjustment I maybe only plan it like 50-60℅ of the time. But planning cross is much easier than first block in Roux.

Sent from my Nexus 4 with Tapatalk


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## Jason Green (Feb 12, 2017)

muchacho said:


> Not such a fast time that deserves reconstruction, but me seeing the first block in inspection is rare enough. Do you guys always plan your cross?
> 
> 36827 11-feb-2017 11:03:59 00:14.182 L2 D' L2 D R2 D' R2 U' B2 F2 U2 B' R L F' U' B2 R' B2 D2 R
> 
> ...


Not really especially if I'm tired or not focused. I'd say maybe 75% of the time I get it all the way planned. I could always do it with untimed inspection, but I usually time it. I should probably take more time if needed for most practice. I just don't want to get too used to untimed inspection so timing it seems really hard.


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## JohnnyReggae (Feb 12, 2017)

mafergut said:


> I can plan the cross 100% of the time, or maybe 99℅ of the time , but I'm a bit lazy so that the final center adjustment I maybe only plan it like 50-60℅ of the time. But planning cross is much easier than first block in Roux.
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 4 with Tapatalk


I plan the cross 100% of the time. Seeing that I'm only concentrating on the cross pieces I usually do this in under 8 seconds. However I've really wanted to move into looking into X-crosses but didn't know how I should go about it. Then I watched this video the other day .... 





The guy is a user on the forums here @Smiles ... he makes some awesome instructional videos.

Anyway, it's the first video where I understand what to look for and how to go about doing things when looking for X-crosses.


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## phreaker (Feb 12, 2017)

pipkiksass said:


> A couple of years back this was just a generic "older" cubers thread... at just 34 I feel like the baby here now!! [emoji6]



It's ok.. .being old is a state of mind .


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## phreaker (Feb 12, 2017)

Gans 356 UM Update:

I finally went and swapped the nuts from purple -> yellow. In doing so, I discovered one of the original purple nuts was somewhat defective, which I was noticing as a looser side. That was disappointing.

The real amazing thing is the cutting now, ironically, I'm finding it cuts better for me OH doing R' than 2H. It may have do with the exact angle everything is moving at. For OH, it may be almost full cutting now. It is close, and certainly close enough given that it is magnetic.

I've set some decent times on it, but I still don't feel like I've adjusted to the new turning... my "sexy moves" at speed aren't smooth on it yet, and that means I'm not used to the cube yet. Expect more updates.


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## Logiqx (Feb 12, 2017)

Double fist pump. 

F L F B2 L' U' L2 F' R2 F2 L2 U' D' R2 U L2 B2 R'

y // Inspection
u' R' L F // Cross (4/4)
z U' R U z' // F2L #1 (3/7)
U2' R' U2' R U y R' U R // F2L #2 (8/15)
U' z U' R2 U R U' R' U z' // F2L #3 (8/23)
U' R U R' U2' R U R' // F2L #4 (8/31)
R U2' R' U' R U' R' // OLL (7/38)
U' // AUF (1/39)


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## CLL Smooth (Feb 12, 2017)

Logiqx said:


> Double fist pump.
> 
> F L F B2 L' U' L2 F' R2 F2 L2 U' D' R2 U L2 B2 R'
> 
> ...


Very nice solve! You beat my PB by 0.52 seconds. Questionable start time though.


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## pipkiksass (Feb 12, 2017)

@phreaker, interestingly I'm just about getting "my times" with my Valk M now. I think there's a lot of "getting used to" magnetic cubes, it's not just like a more stable version of the standard cube, it dramatically effects the characteristics of the cube. 

The Valk is my favourite cube of all time, and my DIY M is even better, but also very different. Even on looser tensions, when turning slowly the cube feels slower due to the increased resistance. During a speed solve, that feeling of increased resistance is reduced, and what you're left with is kind of tactile feedback as you execute algs. Natural inaccuracies in your turning are compensated for by the magnets, but there's still an element of "pushing through" the magnets. I feel like I've had to subtly adjust the way I execute M-heavy algs, and these are probably a TINY bit slower than on a non-magnetic cube. Most of my sub-14 solves have been U perms in the past, but with my M I'd say my other PLLs are faster due to the magnets making my algs smoother, and the overall variance of my sessions is going down.

I still think smooth turning is rewarded by magnetic cubes, but not slow turning, has to be smooth and fast (or at least forceful)!

Also, I'm happy to consider myself oldER (I.e. than a lot of the kids on this forum), but hopefully not OLD yet. Otherwise we might as well go ahead and change the thread name again to "decrepit fogies rambling on about the good old days"!!


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## phreaker (Feb 12, 2017)

@pipkaksass

Get off my lawn!!! *shakes cane*

As far as the comment on rougher turning, I think the Gans cubes in general support a rougher, less accurate style. They just tend to blast through whatever mistake you make... but you have to deal with their lack of stability. The AIR reduced that lack of stability, and the AIR UM, makes a nice stable cube.

I wouldn't know much about M slices except when I play with M2. There I feel the difference, and it is tolerable for the better feedback.

One of the big things to think about in my reviews: I'm solving 90%+ OH, I'm also a ZZ solver. Between them, my opinions will be tinted.


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## pipkiksass (Feb 12, 2017)

Logiqx said:


> Double fist pump.



Very, very nice!

Anyone else loving the irony of a double fist-pump for a OH solve???


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## pglewis (Feb 12, 2017)

pipkiksass said:


> Anyone else loving the irony of a double fist-pump for a OH solve???



Yeah, I was wondering if the formula for the number of fists to be pumped is N+1 or N*2.


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## Logiqx (Feb 12, 2017)

pglewis said:


> Yeah, I was wondering if the formula for the number of fists to be pumped is N+1 or N*2.


One fist per 10% improvement.

I knocked 20% off my PB... 2 fists required. 

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## mark49152 (Feb 12, 2017)

Nice solve Mike 

Long time since I bought a new 3x3, maybe the YueXiao a year ago. So I just treated myself to a triple order: Air, Valk and GTS. So much gets talked about these three cubes, I can't bear to not have them in my collection any longer!


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## newtonbase (Feb 13, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> Nice solve Mike
> 
> Long time since I bought a new 3x3, maybe the YueXiao a year ago. So I just treated myself to a triple order: Air, Valk and GTS. So much gets talked about these three cubes, I can't bear to not have them in my collection any longer!


You'll have fun with that order but it would be even more fun with a side order of magnets.


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## muchacho (Feb 13, 2017)

I think this is PB both for fastest with 2-look CMLL and for shortest SB.

37127 13-feb-2017 10:00:41 00:14.223 R2 B2 D' L2 D' U2 B2 R2 B2 U' B D' R L2 B D U R B2 R

y
B2 L U' L' U' M U2 M' F'
U2 R' U R
U R U R' U R U2 R'
M U' M U' M' U M'
M2 U M' U2 M
U' R U2 R' U' R U2 L' U R' U' L
U' M2 U M' U2 M' U2 M2 U2 M2


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## mark49152 (Feb 13, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> You'll have fun with that order but it would be even more fun with a side order of magnets.


Yes I've been following the magnets discussion with interest, but have refrained for the simple reason that I don't want to become reliant on them and never be able to switch back to a non-magnetic cube. I might switch once magnets are the norm and all new cubes come with them .


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## pipkiksass (Feb 13, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> Yes I've been following the magnets discussion with interest, but have refrained for the simple reason that I don't want to become reliant on them and never be able to switch back to a non-magnetic cube. I might switch once magnets are the norm and all new cubes come with them .



This was my thought, I also didn't want to break the bank, spending $50 on a cube. I knew that the manufacturers wouldn't be slow in offering magnetic cubes after 2 WRs in as many weeks, but thought they'd be a little cheaper, to be honest. Perhaps it's because the first mass produced magnetic cube is a Gans ultimate, which is an expensive cube even without the magnets.

Anyway, as a result, I decided to make my own, and it's only after a week that I'm just about matching the times on my DIY Valk M that I was getting on my normal Valk.

What I AM finding is that the standard deviation of my times is dropping, but I wouldn't say I'm in any way chained to my magnetic cube, I could switch back in a heartbeat, but there would probably be an adjustment in turning style required. No different to switching between e.g. a Dayan and Moyu cube back in the day.

I didn't do my magnetic mod to make me faster (although a magic improvement would have been cool), I did it because I was curious and (more to the point) unwilling to pay a significant amount for someone else to do the work. I'm glad I did it, not only because I mainly focus on 3x3 (sighted, 2H), but because it was really fun and, just like my Florianned Zhanchi back in the day, it's really satisfying solving on a cube that you've "tuned" yourself.


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## pglewis (Feb 13, 2017)

My sighted 3x3 consistency is still a major work in progress but there is still progress. Too many sup 40s still but a whole lot more low 30s and some high 20s. Best Ao12 under :34 now and I expect to see a sub 30 Ao5 before too long. 

One thing I had been completely neglecting but started to focus on again last night is paying close attention to edge orientation on pairs. I've been haphazardly just finding pairs and inserting them however I can during timed solves... last night I decided to try looking at edge orientation first thing with the timer running, regardless of how slow it might be. There were some much slower solves of course but I also found myself surprised a _lot_ by some of the times... low 30s that I felt were closer to :40 during the solve. Seems like setting up for the orientation first frees me up earlier for lookahead.


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## phreaker (Feb 13, 2017)

pglewis said:


> My sighted 3x3 consistency is still a major work in progress but there is still progress. Too many sup 40s still but a whole lot more low 30s and some high 20s. Best Ao12 under :34 now and I expect to see a sub 30 Ao5 before too long.
> 
> One thing I had been completely neglecting but started to focus on again last night is paying close attention to edge orientation on pairs. I've been haphazardly just finding pairs and inserting them however I can during timed solves... last night I decided to try looking at edge orientation first thing with the timer running, regardless of how slow it might be. There were some much slower solves of course but I also found myself surprised a _lot_ by some of the times... low 30s that I felt were closer to :40 during the solve. Seems like setting up for the orientation first frees me up earlier for lookahead.



As a ZZ solver, I can tell you that's true. Look-ahead, and recognition, when you know edges are oriented is much easier.


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## mark49152 (Feb 13, 2017)

pipkiksass said:


> I didn't do my magnetic mod to make me faster (although a magic improvement would have been cool), I did it because I was curious and (more to the point) unwilling to pay a significant amount for someone else to do the work. I'm glad I did it, not only because I mainly focus on 3x3 (sighted, 2H), but because it was really fun and, just like my Florianned Zhanchi back in the day, it's really satisfying solving on a cube that you've "tuned" yourself.


Yeah I get that. It sounds great fun and is very tempting. I tried a GTS M at UKC and it felt fantastic. Just think of all those failures though, if I get used to magnets and then revert to non-magnetic cubes for MBLD


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## newtonbase (Feb 13, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> Yeah I get that. It sounds great fun and is very tempting. I tried a GTS M at UKC and it felt fantastic. Just think of all those failures though, if I get used to magnets and then revert to non-magnetic cubes for MBLD


I'm currently making a magnetic Thunderclap. It has been remarkably easy especially as my daughter was laying out pieces and magnets for me. If it works well then I may be getting my first official MBLD success with all magnetic cubes. I'll be reassembling it once I've got her to sleep.


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## newtonbase (Feb 13, 2017)

Reassembled and lubed. I'm disappointed with this one. I thought it would enhance the lovely clicky feeling of the Thunderclap but it has deadened it. I've stabilised my most stable cube so maybe it shouldn't be a surprise. I'll have a play with the setup and might try another with weaker magnets. I used N52 this time as I have loads of them.


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## mark49152 (Feb 13, 2017)

How do you find BLD on a magnetic cube?


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## phreaker (Feb 13, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> How do you find BLD on a magnetic cube?


I'm not a BLD master... Working on learning M2 still.

But in my practice of shooting OP corner targets, and M2....

I love two things about them.

1. The physical feedback. I am reassured that I am getting my turns right, by the feedback. Just like in sighted solving, but it is more important in BLD in my mind... because you don't have sight.

2. The fact that the cube is "aligned" more often, stops "strange" cuts from happening, while this shouldn't be an issue... time to time, I get sloppy, and I do get a strange cut, magnets reduce the chance.

3. The cube is more stable. Just a good thing .

Cons:

1. M2. M slices are a bit rougher.


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## newtonbase (Feb 13, 2017)

Even though the magnets in my GTS are too strong it has definitely improved for 3BLD. There's no overshooting as you know where you are. But, you get a similar effect, just in a different way, from the clicks in the Thunderclap. 
You could get a good set of MBLD cubes very cheaply by magnetising a load of Guanlongs as they would definitely benefit or, you could save time and buy Thunderclaps. It depends how valuable your time is and whether you enjoy the process. 
I'm sure the right magnetic cube is our there for me, I just haven't made it yet.


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## Shaky Hands (Feb 14, 2017)

A bit of late night solving, shaved 7.5 seconds off my 6x6 PB with a 4:46.85. Something of a lucky F2C case but I needed to do a 2L-OLL so I'll take it anyway.


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## Logiqx (Feb 14, 2017)

Shaky Hands said:


> A bit of late night solving, shaved 7.5 seconds off my 6x6 PB with a 4:46.85. Something of a lucky F2C case but I needed to do a 2L-OLL so I'll take it anyway.


Nice time. What are you averaging now?

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## Shaky Hands (Feb 14, 2017)

Logiqx said:


> Nice time. What are you averaging now?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk



Not sure as that was only my 2nd timed 6x6 solve in a month or so. I would think it's around 5:25.


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## mark49152 (Feb 14, 2017)

Nice time @Shaky Hands. Your 6x6 times seem proportionally much better than your smaller cube times, are you focusing on the bigger cubes?

I finally found time to do some averages and am surprised that I'm not that much slower after almost a month off. Around 1:08 on 4x4, 2:20 on 5x5, 1:16 on 3BLD. If I wasn't so addicted I might take breaks more often


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## h2f (Feb 14, 2017)

Yes, breaks help. I do only ao100 on Saturday or Sunday morning with few solves during week and I did 17.6x ao100 last Sunday.


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## Shaky Hands (Feb 14, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> Nice time @Shaky Hands. Your 6x6 times seem proportionally much better than your smaller cube times, are you focusing on the bigger cubes?



I don't really practice regular 3x3 much anymore although I still enjoy solving it when I do. I did a lot of 7x7 in January, so that has probably helped with 6x6. I feel I have more scope for improvement with big cubes too.


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## SenorJuan (Feb 14, 2017)

Congratulations on the great OH solve, Mike. I'm always aware it could happen to me any solve, having had a number of 12,13 second 'first 2 layers' , it just hasn't yet. My cube is getting past retirement, hopefully a new one might just make the difference.
I did set a 'one-fist-pump' PB on Mirror-blocks over the weekend. An easy first 2 layers, and a skipped step on the last-layer, resulting in an 8-move LL, produced a 43 sec solve. This is my first sub-50.
All this talk of magnets makes me think that if there's a puzzle that *needs* magnets, it's Mirror-blocks. Just holding the flippin thing usually results in two faces turning.
Whaddaya think, Magnet Mark?


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## Jason Green (Feb 15, 2017)

Oh my I just watched J Perm's video on blind. He's really good at explaining things and this makes it seem to easy. I really want to try this now! I must wait until after my comp Saturday at least!! 

In other news I can finally do full PLL for OH, although a bit shaky on some.


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## newtonbase (Feb 15, 2017)

SenorJuan said:


> All this talk of magnets makes me think that if there's a puzzle that *needs* magnets, it's Mirror-blocks. Just holding the flippin thing usually results in two faces turning.
> Whaddaya think, Magnet Mark?


I did consider it very briefly yesterday. I don't know if it would be possible due to the different ways the pieces line up against each other. Then there's the problem of trying to squeeze magnets into the thinner pieces and I haven't even looked at how the pieces come apart. I'll have another look at it as you are interested but I think its unlikely to work. 
My Fisher cube turns far too quickly so I considered that too but the pieces align in too many ways.
I ended up doing a stickerless Guanlong. The magnets I used were too weak but I did get the process down to under 40 mins which is a PB!


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## teacher77 (Feb 15, 2017)

teacher77 said:


> On the positive side : new PB today, Ao10 = 26.01 sec, down from 26.17 sec.
> 25, here I come !



Hey guys I said the above only a few days ago. Guess what ? I didn't do 25. I just did a 24.73s Ao10 !

It feels amazing ! Look at those times :
23.17
26.99
26.58
26.23
23.77
25.86
23.88
23.81
20.28
26.72

Usually, I would get one or two 30+ that would screw up my average. And I would tend to see 27, 28 or even 29 as "ok". But look : each and every solve in this sequence is bellow 27 !

Another positive thing is that I didn't get this Ao10 PB because I got a PB single. Nothing is close to my 18.11 PB single. There's this 20.28 but replace it by a 23.00 and I still would have had a 25.00 s average.

Now the sad note : all this isn't worth much if I end up adding 10 more stress-induced seconds in a comp.


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## teacher77 (Feb 15, 2017)

pglewis said:


> Some people do well with adrenaline, note @megagoune's comment about competition boosting his focus. My first comp back in Sept: DNF, DNF, 2:20.78, 1:21.74, 1:10.82 . I was comfortably under :40 going into my 2nd comp but still landed 44/48 for single/avg. Still well off my at-home times but much better than the first go-round.
> 
> Mentally do a "postmortem"; take inventory of the things that adversely affected you. Do you need to be more comfortable solving in front of someone watching? Do you need to get accustomed to noise and distractions while solving? Are you in your zone at 4PM but your heat was at 9 or 10AM? Take what you can learn from the experience and then let it go, from a performance standpoint. I personally don't think you did poorly at all; not only do you have official times in the books, you're officially faster than me. Now to see if I can catch you at _my_ next one .



Good point. I definitly don't handle the pressure of an experienced public very well. I should practice in front of cubers, not just in front of people who would find it impressive to see anyone "finish" a cube.

I would say that I am in my zone around midnight. That's the time I acheived each and every one of my PBs (including tonight's 24.73 Ao10). I'm always very slow in the morning and that's when the comp took place. At on top that I had the stupid idea to drink a huge coffee just before and that makes for very shaky hands.

Distraction are not a problem if they take the form of noise. However, some guy BUMPED into me while I was solving and I kind of expected the rep to cancel the solve but he didn't say ****. Other "distractions" included the impossibility to lean against the table (the timer was about an inch from the side of the time. I leave around a foot at home), the instability of the tables (they shook like crazy).

But you're right : I see this as a start point.


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## teacher77 (Feb 15, 2017)

Logiqx said:


> @megagoune + @teacher77 - great to see you guys have now done an official competition.
> 
> Are you eligible for the over-40's rankings? If you are then let me know if you want to be added and ideally let me know your YOB.
> 
> I was born in 1977. I'll be 40 in 3 weeks.


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## newtonbase (Feb 15, 2017)

Jason Green said:


> Oh my I just watched J Perm's video on blind. He's really good at explaining things and this makes it seem to easy. I really want to try this now! I must wait until after my comp Saturday at least!!


Just watched it. It's very good.


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## mark49152 (Feb 15, 2017)

teacher77 said:


> There's this 20.28 but replace it by a 23.00 and I still would have had a 25.00 s average.


Averages in cubing exclude the best 5% and worst 5% of results to eliminate the extremes of luck. So replacing the 20.28 with another best time would not affect the average . Perhaps it's not technically correct to call that an average, but if you're comparing results to the community, that's what they do. By convention averages are usually quoted for 5, 12, 50 or 100 solves. What you're calculating is known as a mean. 

Congrats on the nice progress 

In other news, I used my backup mains for my recent 4x4 and 5x5 averages and I didn't realise how stiff and blocky they were until I switched back to my mains. The mains feel beautifully smooth and fast by comparison... but my times are loads worse. Anybody else noticed such a phenomenon?


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## JohnnyReggae (Feb 15, 2017)

All this talk of magnets .... The other magnets I ordered finally arrived yesterday. So I now have 4x2mm N35's and 3x2mm N35's. The new Valk I ordered hasn't arrived so I'm considering rather just using my current Valk. Also seeing as I have the smaller magnets as well I'm seriously considering putting them into my Yuxin Blue. I love the speed of it, just wish it was a little more stable.

I just started a new cube mode yesterday, so not sure when I'll find the time to play with the magnets. Then again it's a quick mod so will hopefully have that done in the next couple days.


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## Smiles (Feb 15, 2017)

Holy crap guys thanks for watching and sharing my videos!
This means so much to me cause i just started not long ago and I'm so happy it's actually helpful.

I haven't been to this forum before but I feel a sense of community and kindness here.


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## Logiqx (Feb 15, 2017)

Smiles said:


> Holy crap guys thanks for watching and sharing my videos!
> This means so much to me cause i just started not long ago and I'm so happy it's actually helpful.
> 
> I haven't been to this forum before but I feel a sense of community and kindness here.


You've made some great videos. Keep up the good work!

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk


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## JohnnyReggae (Feb 15, 2017)

JohnnyReggae said:


> Been working on a new mod over the last 2 weeks. Though it's not a hard mod, finding time amongst life is not always easy. Anyway I present the 5x5 Burr/Wall Cube
> 
> I have a couple white Shengshou cubes lying in a draw and after making my 4x4 Burr cube I wanted to make a 5x5 version so figured the white Shengshou would be a good candidate. The Shengshou's are also the only white cubes I have which don't fit with the rest of my black collection so a mod is a great idea for them.
> 
> ...


Now that I've solved this puzzle a few times now I can say that it is .... awesome !! 

In truth I think it's easier than the 4x4 Burr as you don't have any parity issues to deal with, and there are less algs to know. There is more to think about and move around but by using simple cubiod corner swaps and edge swaps you can solve most of the pieces.

I would recommend both the 4x4 Burr and 5x5 Burr to anyone who wants some more challenge. I'd also recommend that you make your own as well as it is quite an easy mod. Some super glue, a little putty to fill in the gaps where the pieces are joined, some sand paper and spray paint.


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## Shaky Hands (Feb 15, 2017)

teacher77 said:


> Distraction are not a problem if they take the form of noise. However, some guy BUMPED into me while I was solving and I kind of expected the rep to cancel the solve but he didn't say ****.



They probably assumed it didn't cause you a distraction, as the WCA regulations say it's up to the competitor to request an extra attempt:

11e) If an incident occurs during an attempt, the WCA Delegate may grant a competitor an extra attempt, replacing the attempt during which the incident occurred. The competitor must appeal verbally or in writing to the judge and WCA Delegate at the time of the incident, before finishing the original attempt, to be eligible for an extra attempt. An appeal does not guarantee the competitor an extra attempt.


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## h2f (Feb 15, 2017)

Smiles said:


> Holy crap guys thanks for watching and sharing my videos!
> This means so much to me cause i just started not long ago and I'm so happy it's actually helpful.
> 
> I haven't been to this forum before but I feel a sense of community and kindness here.



Your videos are really helpfull. I havent seen so good stuff about cross making and lookahead practicing.


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## newtonbase (Feb 15, 2017)

Smiles said:


> Holy crap guys thanks for watching and sharing my videos!
> This means so much to me cause i just started not long ago and I'm so happy it's actually helpful.
> 
> I haven't been to this forum before but I feel a sense of community and kindness here.


I've watched a couple of them since @Jason Green mentioned your 3BLD one and I'm impressed. They are clearly well thought out and are easy to follow. I have subscribed.


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## pglewis (Feb 15, 2017)

phreaker said:


> As a ZZ solver, I can tell you that's true. Look-ahead, and recognition, when you know edges are oriented is much easier.



Some day, when I'm ready to tackle EOLine, I'll actually spend some quality time learning ZZ. Just paying attention to edge orientation on the fly helps me a lot, life would be really sweet if edges were already oriented up front. 



teacher77 said:


> I would say that I am in my zone around midnight. That's the time I acheived each and every one of my PBs (including tonight's 24.73 Ao10). I'm always very slow in the morning and that's when the comp took place. At on top that I had the stupid idea to drink a huge coffee just before and that makes for very shaky hands.



I'm the same way, my brain tends to hit its stride for quick thinking after 9PM. I also seem to have a window during early afternoon... but whatever the case, I'm certainly not firing on all cylinders for cube solving at 9 or 10 AM. For my last comp I intentionally got up ridiculously early so that 10AM would feel more like early afternoon to my brain. Who knows for sure, but I do think it helped some. 

I also found out at my first comp that I'm very easily distracted by motion. I've subsequently read about some people even wearing blinders or some contraption to help block out things from your peripheral vision. I just practiced at my local coffee shop for about an hour a day leading up to my last comp; servers and customers walking around, lots of sound and motion vying for my attention. I strongly believe this helped me a lot. I don't recall anything from my official solves but me and the cube, I tunnel-visioned everything out without a conscious effort. I even remember being surprised by the size of the spectating crowd around the tables _after_ a couple of my solves, but little memory of them at all before or during. 

Now, if I can just put all that together PLUS lookahead lol. 

Good continued 3x3 progress. I've been happy generally seeing a few sub :30s per Ao12 lately, so still trying to follow your lead down into the 20s.


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## pglewis (Feb 15, 2017)

I'm also pleased to report that my black Valk is back in action after slowing to the point of being put on the shelf a couple months back. I cleaned out all the lube that was gumming it up before my last comp, while tuning all my cubes, but didn't bother setting it up afterwards because I was going with my stickerless Valk and a Thunderclap backup for the comp (and I was _so_ done disassembling/reassembling and turning screws on cubes). Still didn't bother with it the past few weeks with a couple new stickerless cubes to break-in and try out but over the past couple days I've brought it back out and dialed-in the tensions to near superhero level once again. The stickerless is still a go-to but definitely slowed quite a bit vs new; now that the black one is rockin' again I can risk messing with the stickerless. I enjoy switching out all the time but the Valks definitely have that predictable reliability I want at comp time.


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## newtonbase (Feb 15, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> Reassembled and lubed. I'm disappointed with this one. I thought it would enhance the lovely clicky feeling of the Thunderclap but it has deadened it. I've stabilised my most stable cube so maybe it shouldn't be a surprise. I'll have a play with the setup and might try another with weaker magnets. I used N52 this time as I have loads of them.


Every time I magnetise a cube I start off disliking it but then warm up. While the Thunderclap loses some of the audible clickiness, that is made up for in the feel which really helps in a blind cube. With a slightly weaker set of magnets like N35 5mm x 2mm or 4mm x 3mm and the right setup it could be Awesome!!!ish.


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## Jason Green (Feb 16, 2017)

Smiles said:


> Holy crap guys thanks for watching and sharing my videos!
> This means so much to me cause i just started not long ago and I'm so happy it's actually helpful.
> 
> I haven't been to this forum before but I feel a sense of community and kindness here.


Yes we're very kind, you'll never get so many likes anywhere else. Haha

You definitely do a great job of explaining stuff. I had heard the blind analogy with playing cards before and it kind of made sense but not 100%. But after your video it was so obvious I could explain it to someone else. In fact I was swapping edges into place showing my wife last night, of course just by looking at them one at a time.


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## newtonbase (Feb 16, 2017)

Jason Green said:


> Yes we're very kind, you'll never get so many likes anywhere else. Haha
> 
> You definitely do a great job of explaining stuff. I had heard the blind analogy with playing cards before and it kind of made sense but not 100%. But after your video it was so obvious I could explain it to someone else. In fact I was swapping edges into place showing my wife last night, of course just by looking at them one at a time.


Yes, Noah does a similar explanation but he doesn't make the cycles anywhere near as clear.


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## pipkiksass (Feb 16, 2017)

@Smiles, I've mentioned elsewhere how great your videos are. A lot of YouCubers rush things, or assume things, or talk down to you, or go on too much. You seem to strike a good balance. I subscribed after your lookahead video last week, but I'll be sure to take a look at your BLD stuff. COLL is still a step ahead of me, as I have a few more OLLs to learn, but interesting what you said in your Q&A about COLL being easier to recognise and more of a reward (on average) than WV, because I was probably going to go for WV next.

Anyway, this just happened - I almost NEVER film solves, but my DIY Valk M has just started giving me "my average", so I thought I'd lean my phone against a coffee cup on top of the fish tank (just as the pro's do???) and film a few solves out of an Ao100...






PB single (PLL skip) AND on camera!!! And it's not even a lucky cross, in fact there's a cross edge misinserted at the start! But it's an easy OLL and PLL skip, and pretty efficient (47 QTM, unless I've miscounted?).

Reconstruction:

11.05 - U' R2 U2 F2 R F2 L U2 F2 D2 B2 D' B' D2 B' U B2 L R2

Inspection - X2 Y2

Cross - D' R D2 R' F'
F2L 1 - Y L U L' Y U' L U L'
F2L 2 - L' U L U2 L' U L 
F2L 3 - R' U2 R U2 R' U' R (missed the made pair on top, which means I was ACTUALLY looking ahead at the R/G pair!!!)
F2L 4 - U Y' R' U' R
OLL - U R' U' R' F R F' U R
PLL - skipped
AUF - U

47 QTM = 4.25 TPS.


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## h2f (Feb 16, 2017)

pipkiksass said:


> Inspection - X2 Y2
> 
> Cross - D' R D2 R' F'
> F2L 1 - Y L U L' Y U' L U L'
> ...



Same OLL as in Mat's WR solve though he did it as VLS: in fact it was OLL with cancelation of last slot insert.


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## pipkiksass (Feb 16, 2017)

OK, session over. Ao100 17.84 (PB is 17.79), best Ao12 16.40 (PB is 16.09), best Ao5 15.23 (PB WAS 15.25).

Somewhat better than the 18.9X Ao100 that I logged the day after I made my Valk M. Beat Ao5 and single PB, and incredibly (considering less than 100 of all the solves I've ever done have been on camera) managed to capture my single PB on camera. 
Standard deviation for the session is only 1.73. That's pretty good for me, it's normally over 2. Worst time was 22.40, only 17 sup-20s and only 2 sup-22s. At the other end of the spectrum, 52 of the solves were sub-18, of which 20 were sub-16, and 3 were sub-14s.

I've said before that where I think the magnetic cube is helping most is with consistency. I think my M-heavy PLLs have adjusted to the magnets now, and my other algs are catching up. 

Still can't believe I caught the 11.05 on camera. I only recorded about the first 30 solves!!


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## Logiqx (Feb 16, 2017)

pipkiksass said:


> OK, session over. Ao100 17.84 (PB is 17.79), best Ao12 16.40 (PB is 16.09), best Ao5 15.23 (PB WAS 15.25).
> 
> Somewhat better than the 18.9X Ao100 that I logged the day after I made my Valk M. Beat Ao5 and single PB, and incredibly (considering less than 100 of all the solves I've ever done have been on camera) managed to capture my single PB on camera.
> Standard deviation for the session is only 1.73. That's pretty good for me, it's normally over 2. Worst time was 22.40, only 17 sup-20s and only 2 sup-22s. At the other end of the spectrum, 52 of the solves were sub-18, of which 20 were sub-16, and 3 were sub-14s.
> ...



Nice times. You're improving fast. 

HTM + QTM don't count rotations so it was 40 HTM / 44 QTM. HTM is the usual metric so your 40 HTM PB was very close to my 39 HTM OH PB.

I had my second sub-15 Ao5 on the train today. My times fluctuate a lot from session to session, depending on whether I'm in the zone or being distracted, listening to other peoples conversations, etc.


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## pipkiksass (Feb 16, 2017)

Logiqx said:


> Nice times. You're improving fast. ...
> 
> I had my second sub-15 Ao5 on the train today.



Thanks, and thanks for clearing up the rotation thing. Progress is faster when you're 90% focussed on one event, I suppose.

Also, you should do all of your cubing on trains, it seems to work for you... I read a paper a few years ago about white noise, binaural tones, and concentration/focus, perhaps the lull of the train engines helps you??

Perhaps not BLD, I'd imagine ANY noise is a significant distraction.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Logiqx (Feb 16, 2017)

pipkiksass said:


> Thanks, and thanks for clearing up the rotation thing. Progress is faster when you're 90% focussed on one event, I suppose.
> 
> Also, you should do all of your cubing on trains, it seems to work for you... I read a paper a few years ago about white noise, binaural tones, and concentration/focus, perhaps the lull of the train engines helps you??
> 
> Perhaps not BLD, I'd imagine ANY noise is a significant distraction.



Most of my cubing is on trains. I don't think it's an ideal environment but it does provide a decent amount of time to practice.


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## Smiles (Feb 16, 2017)

pipkiksass said:


> @Smiles, I've mentioned elsewhere how great your videos are. A lot of YouCubers rush things, or assume things, or talk down to you, or go on too much. You seem to strike a good balance. I subscribed after your lookahead video last week, but I'll be sure to take a look at your BLD stuff. COLL is still a step ahead of me, as I have a few more OLLs to learn, but interesting what you said in your Q&A about COLL being easier to recognise and more of a reward (on average) than WV, because I was probably going to go for WV next.



Congrats on your new PBs! Even on cam. Last time I got a PB single was a few minutes after putting my camera away to charge. feelsbad
I forgot to mention this in the video but COLL is only more worth it if you really practice your U/H/Z perms and you are generally able to recognize them from only looking at 2 sides. I have a video on a few reasons why COLL is good, but the main reason is because U/H/Z perms are super fast to do and to recognize from any angle, so you need to be good at them to take advantage of COLL.

Also, starting by learning some easy WV cases (like the 2 corners oriented cases) is not a bad idea, since the algs are pretty short.


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## newtonbase (Feb 17, 2017)

pipkiksass said:


> Perhaps not BLD, I'd imagine ANY noise is a significant distraction.


It's certainly easier to to in silence but when fo we ever get that? The room I'd full of 10 year old boys and bored parents at Como's so seven then it's rarely silent. Practicing somewhere noisy can get you used to distractions. I do mist of my MBLD attempts in the work kitchen and often have to hold conversations during memo. You get used to it.


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## mark49152 (Feb 17, 2017)

@newtonbase, @pipkiksass - personally I don't find comp background noise too distracting as long as it's at a low level. If it becomes loud, it's a problem. Also certain noises jump out and grab the attention, like a slamming door or an individual loud voice. IMHO a good set of ear muffs is essential for competition BLD. I've only had one experience where the noise level became distracting even through the muffs.


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## newtonbase (Feb 17, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> @newtonbase, @pipkiksass - personally I don't find comp background noise too distracting as long as it's at a low level. If it becomes loud, it's a problem. Also certain noises jump out and grab the attention, like a slamming door or an individual loud voice. IMHO a good set of ear muffs is essential for competition BLD. I've only had one experience where the noise level became distracting even through the muffs.


At my first comp my ear plugs drowned out everything but one noisy mum. She was far more distracting than general room noise. I haven't used ear protection since.


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## mark49152 (Feb 17, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> At my first comp my ear plugs drowned out everything but one noisy mum. She was far more distracting than general room noise. I haven't used ear protection since.


Yeah I considered dropping the muffs, but decided the distracting noises would be no less distracting if I made them louder. So I upgraded the muffs for an extra 3db attenuation. Loud noises can still distract though. Generally people are pretty well behaved during BLD events in the UK and I've had no issues since. Although muffs can't eliminate every distracting noise, I like the feeling of isolation they give, and I think that helps my concentration generally.


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## newtonbase (Feb 17, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> Yeah I considered dropping the muffs, but decided the distracting noises would be no less distracting if I made them louder. So I upgraded the muffs for an extra 3db attenuation. Loud noises can still distract though. Generally people are pretty well behaved during BLD events in the UK and I've had no issues since. Although muffs can't eliminate every distracting noise, I like the feeling of isolation they give, and I think that helps my concentration generally.


I'd consider using a very good set but I don't like the idea of blocking just some of the noise.


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## mark49152 (Feb 17, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> I'd consider using a very good set but I don't like the idea of blocking just some of the noise.


I don't think there's a perfect solution, unfortunately. None of the noise is truly blocked, just attenuated, so if a noise is loud enough outside it can still be in the audible range inside the muffs. How much they help concentration is partly psychological too. I think if I went to a comp and forgot my muffs, I'd be annoyed and unsettled and would probably perform worse because of that, even in silence .


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## h2f (Feb 17, 2017)

I've found that having something on head helps to get some nice concetration. I've discovered it when I'put headphones instead of ear muffs. I think it's personnal. I was trying to solve without it but even if i'm home alone I need something on ears.


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## newtonbase (Feb 17, 2017)

From the bit of research I've done there don't appear to be many ear muffs available that try to block the full range of sound. Some of the more expensive ones are designed to stop dangerous noise but allow you to hold a conversation. I suppose we are in a bit of a niche market.


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## Logiqx (Feb 17, 2017)

Smiles said:


> I forgot to mention this in the video but COLL is only more worth it if you really practice your U/H/Z perms and you are generally able to recognize them from only looking at 2 sides. I have a video on a few reasons why COLL is good, but the main reason is because U/H/Z perms are super fast to do and to recognize from any angle, so you need to be good at them to take advantage of COLL.



Don't forget the increased chance of a skip which you feel you've earned by doing COLL - down from 1/72 (PLL) to 1/12 (EPLL). 

I think it's marginally more useful for OH (unless you get an H-perm which sucks) and big cubes, especially 4x4 / 6x6.

Edit: The only downside is that you never get a J-Perm when using COLL. It's slightly ironic given your channel name. hehe


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## mark49152 (Feb 17, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> From the bit of research I've done there don't appear to be many ear muffs available that try to block the full range of sound. Some of the more expensive ones are designed to stop dangerous noise but allow you to hold a conversation. I suppose we are in a bit of a niche market.


They are more effective at some parts of the frequency range than others. I use the Peltor Optima 2 and I've seen a few other cubers using the Optima range. The Optima 3 has another 3dB of attenuation but looks very bulky (Maskow uses it). 

At the end of the day, the objective is to help concentration rather than block out all sound. It only takes a small lapse in concentration to cause a DNF and muffs could make that difference. I have had at least one MBLD cube failure because I was distracted by noise.


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## phreaker (Feb 17, 2017)

Starting to actually work on memo + execution for BLD, corners only at first... (Still have a bit more M2 to wrestle with)

So far... I've gone 0/8 and 3/8 before making mistakes . I'll get it yet. The memo is holding in my head fine though, which is encouraging. It is just mistracing, and misexecution. I'll work on it more tonight, and in the following days, I'm sure. It may seem like a small step... but at some point you have to actually shut your eyes, and shoot the targets.


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## h2f (Feb 17, 2017)

I'm still checking my memo list and finding new words. I think about serious practice in mbld - I havent practice it for a more than year. There's a mbld event on the horizon in 4 months.


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## newtonbase (Feb 17, 2017)

h2f said:


> I'm still checking my memo list and finding new words. I think about serious practice in mbld - I havent practice it for a more than year. There's a mbld event on the horizon in 4 months.


What's your MBLD PB at home? I've really enjoyed practicing it but the school holidays have meant no attempts this week. I've had to make do with doing singles to practice my rooms.


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## h2f (Feb 17, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> What's your MBLD PB at home? I've really enjoyed practicing it but the school holidays have meant no attempts this week. I've had to make do with doing singles to practice my rooms.



7/7 in the late 2015. I dont know why but I the mbld doesnt enjoy me. And yours?


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## mark49152 (Feb 17, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> I've really enjoyed practicing it but the school holidays have meant no attempts this week.


I did some proper, planned MBLD practice this week, for the first time ever, in preparation for Peterborough. Our school holidays are next week so that might be the end of my practice...


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## newtonbase (Feb 17, 2017)

h2f said:


> 7/7 in the late 2015. I dont know why but I the mbld doesnt enjoy me. And yours?


Let's hope you can get that in competition. Mine is only 3/3 but I now have good locations for 5 cubes and my recall is usually solid. My target was 4 points this year and I'm confident I can get it soon. 


mark49152 said:


> I did some proper, planned MBLD practice this week, for the first time ever, in preparation for Peterborough. Our school holidays are next week so that might be the end of my practice...


My motivation for practicing MBLD was to get a success at Peterborough and qualify for the WCs but I missed registration. Enjoy the half term even if you don't get to practice.


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## h2f (Feb 17, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> I did some proper, planned MBLD practice this week, for the first time ever, in preparation for Peterborough. Our school holidays are next week so that might be the end of my practice...



How do you practice? Just solving or some dedicated exercises?

Weird thing - I'm without 4bld success for 3 months or so and I got 20% success rate in 5bld in this time.


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## mark49152 (Feb 17, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> My motivation for practicing MBLD was to get a success at Peterborough and qualify for the WCs but I missed registration.


Has there been any statement made about qualification criteria? They are so late announcing the details that some people won't have the opportunity to get to earlier comps to qualify. It'll be annoying for anyone who booked travel only to find they can't compete in the events they want to.

Ben commented in another thread that there is likely to be another UK comp between Newcastle and London, so hopefully that will have MBLD.



h2f said:


> How do you practice? Just solving or some dedicated exercises?


I have been doing small attempts, since I rarely get an uninterrupted hour. My objective is to practise my MBLD memo technique. I want to stamp out silly mistakes like executing edge images as corner comms, or forgetting parity, which I sometimes do because the memo is different from 3BLD and I have rarely practised it before. So I want to get more comfortable with it. Also I am pushing my memo and review speed so that I'll be under less time pressure during bigger attempts. I haven't decided how many to try at Peterborough. 



h2f said:


> Weird thing - I'm without 4bld success for 3 months or so and I got 20% success rate in 5bld in this time.


Do you push your memo as hard for 5BLD? Or maybe review more?


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## newtonbase (Feb 17, 2017)

h2f said:


> How do you practice? Just solving or some dedicated exercises?.


Some full attempts so I can get used to the process. Things like leaving the cubes in the correct orientation and in a place that I can find them and, memoing in solve order seem obvious but are easily forgotten. Apart from that I just do single solves in new locations so I know where to put things. Solving edges as images is important for me as there are image pairs that I don't use in corners



mark49152 said:


> Has there been any statement made about qualification criteria? They are so late announcing the details that some people won't have the opportunity to get to earlier comps to qualify. It'll be annoying for anyone who booked travel only to find they can't compete in the events they want to.
> 
> Ben commented in another thread that there is likely to be another UK comp between Newcastle and London, so hopefully that will have MBLD.
> 
> ...


I don't know any official statement but I have heard that there will be qualifying so I'm assuming it will be similar to the US Nationals. I can't book anything until they announce the schedule as I'll not qualify for much and can only make a day or two.
I've also heard today that there are other competitions planned. Hopefully we'll hear soon. I may try to persuade them to let me do MBLD only at Peterborough.


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## chtiger (Feb 17, 2017)

Been busy back at work this week after 2 months off, so I'm falling behind in this thread. Hard to keep up if you don't check it everyday. 
Did some practice today of the events at my next comp. I've hardly practiced anything this week, and I'm tired and my hands are tired, but all of that led to maybe my best overall session ever.
PB skewb ao12: 12.73, just started skewb a couple of weeks ago, so this one's not too surprising.
PB pyraminx ao12: 9.82, just started practicing this again, so this was a shock.
PB clock ao12: 9.28, had been 9.50 for a long time until a 9.30 last week, so very surprised to PB again already. Also got a 8.84 PB ao5 last week, had 8.87 today. 
4BLD 10:30, not a PB, but maybe my 3rd best
(3x3, 3bld, and sq1 didn't join in on the good day)


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## Jason Green (Feb 18, 2017)

h2f said:


> I've found that having something on head helps to get some nice concetration. I've discovered it when I'put headphones instead of ear muffs. I think it's personnal. I was trying to solve without it but even if i'm home alone I need something on ears.


Reminds me of the pre shot routine for bowling. I always wipe my ball before every shot. Some lanes have a lot of oil and you need to wipe it. Some lanes are dry and you can't see oil on the ball, but I still wipe it the same way as part of my routine.


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## h2f (Feb 18, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> Do you push your memo as hard for 5BLD? Or maybe review more?



I think I do the same: I start when I feel comfortable. I've found out it comes partly from execution: udoing setups etc.

About mbld practice: it looks like I must start with small attempts with 3 or 5 cubes.


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## phreaker (Feb 18, 2017)

Rest of the Gans AIR UM review:

I swapped in yellow springs, and lubed the pieces with Traxxas 10k. This is one of the few cubes I've run into where 10k made the cube faster. Usually, it makes them a bit slower. I really like the UM + Yellow Springs + 10k. For OH, it is a good solid cube. Competing for main status with my Valk M, I use them both for OH.

For BLD... it's not close. Gans AIR UM. Great cube. I love the feel, I love that it doesn't complain when I misalign.

For 2H... Well, that's imply I did enough 2H to care, but likely the Gans AIR UM. So.. at this point I'd say if you made me choose "one cube, one setup. Live with it." It is likely my Gans AIR UM, Yellow Springs, Traxxas 10k.

It fixed my big complaints with the Gans AIR, leaving only the things I liked. Yes, it is a good cube, and if you don't want to put magnets in your own cube, and you like Gans cubes... It is a VERY solid choice, IMHO.


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## phreaker (Feb 18, 2017)

Valk M with Blu-Tack update:

No problems, with it. It feels a bit less strong...but that may be due to me using the Gans AIR UM. Still a solid OH cube. Still a good cube. No regrets on the Blu-Tack.


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## teacher77 (Feb 18, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> Averages in cubing exclude the best 5% and worst 5% of results to eliminate the extremes of luck. So replacing the 20.28 with another best time would not affect the average . Perhaps it's not technically correct to call that an average, but if you're comparing results to the community, that's what they do. By convention averages are usually quoted for 5, 12, 50 or 100 solves. What you're calculating is known as a mean.



So each time on of you guys quotes an Ao12 is in fact an "Average of the 10/12 remaining when first and last are removed" ?

I'll start calling them "means" then.

I know people usually quote Ao12's but I started measuring my progress using Ao10's so for the sake of self comparison I'm keeping it that way. I'll try computing Ao12's one in a while to quote them here.


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## mark49152 (Feb 18, 2017)

teacher77 said:


> So each time on of you guys quotes an Ao12 is in fact an "Average of the 10/12 remaining when first and last are removed" ?


Correct. Same goes for Ao5. That is the mean of 3/5 with best and worst excluded, as done in competition. Some events like 6x6 and 7x7 use Mo3 format instead.


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## Logiqx (Feb 18, 2017)

Mathematically it is called a truncated mean and the purpose is to remove statistical outliers:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Truncated_mean

During an Ao100 cubers discard the fastest 5% and the slowest 5%. If you look at the discarded times you'll see that they are not representative of your typical times and so the truncated mean is a better indicator of performance.

On smaller averages we still discard the fastest and slowest 5% of solves, rounded up to the nearest solve. 5% of 12 is 0.6 so we round up to 1 and discard the fastest and slowest solve.


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## pipkiksass (Feb 18, 2017)

teacher77 said:


> I'll try computing Ao12's one in a while to quote them here.



How do you time your solves? Most dedicated cubing timers will compute your Ao12 for you. Like many, I use CSTimer, it's been going for years, and it's very good.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## pglewis (Feb 18, 2017)

pipkiksass said:


> How do you time your solves? Most dedicated cubing timers will compute your Ao12 for you. Like many, I use CSTimer, it's been going for years, and it's very good.



I was going to suggest CSTimer as well. It automatically keeps a running Ao5 and Ao12 as well as best for each.


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## Jason Green (Feb 18, 2017)

Yep, ao5 ao12 just think of them as a cubing term, not the English meaning of those same words. 

Dallas comp today, new PB 2x2 average and single, 3x3 average, and OH single. Might have made the OH cut if I didn't bobble on the first solve, second one messed up OLL. 18.21 3x3 average, goal was sub 19 so I'm happy with that.


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## pglewis (Feb 18, 2017)

Jason Green said:


> 18.2 3x3 average, goal was sub 19 so I'm happy with that.



My hero!


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## mark49152 (Feb 18, 2017)

Nice results @Jason Green, especially that 3x3 average.


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## h2f (Feb 19, 2017)

Congrats @Jason Green!


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## newtonbase (Feb 19, 2017)

Jason Green said:


> Yep, ao5 ao12 just think of them as a cubing term, not the English meaning of those same words.
> 
> Dallas comp today, new PB 2x2 average and single, 3x3 average, and OH single. Might have made the OH cut if I didn't bobble on the first solve, second one messed up OLL. 18.21 3x3 average, goal was sub 19 so I'm happy with that.


Well done Jason.


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## muchacho (Feb 19, 2017)

Congrats Jason! And good luck today if you have more events (cubecomps is not loading for me).

edit: oops, seems it was a one day comp.


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## Logiqx (Feb 19, 2017)

Wow. That orange streak continues for @Jason Green.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk


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## mafergut (Feb 19, 2017)

Very nice progress, @Jason Green, congratulations.


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## Jason Green (Feb 19, 2017)

Thanks everyone!

It's definitely getting harder to improve each comp. That 2x2 was pretty lucky for me, and since I rarely practice it I'm not thinking I'll beat it for quite a while. I've been spoiled and my first comp with no PBs is gonna be a bit hard to take I'm afraid!


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## mark49152 (Feb 19, 2017)

Jason Green said:


> my first comp with no PBs is gonna be a bit hard to take I'm afraid!


Yeah, I'm running out of side events I can learn on the spot as PB insurance


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## newtonbase (Feb 19, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> Yeah, I'm running out of side events I can learn on the spot as PB insurance


You're going to have to take your socks and shoes off soon.


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## newtonbase (Feb 19, 2017)

World Championships website is up http://www.rubiksworldparis2017.com/en/home/
Registration isn't open but the schedule and qualifying is showing. I have permission to go for the weekend and can do 3BLD, 3x3 (and pyraminx).


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## bubbagrub (Feb 19, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> World Championships website is up http://www.rubiksworldparis2017.com/en/home/
> Registration isn't open but the schedule and qualifying is showing. I have permission to go for the weekend and can do 3BLD, 3x3 (and pyraminx).



Yay -- this is exciting. Looks like I can definitely do 2x2, 3x3, pyraminx (as can everyone) plus FMC and probably Skewb. If I really focus on speed in BLD at Peterborough, it's possible I could qualify for that. Doing MBLD will depend on getting 5/5 in Peterborough, which doesn't seem super likely... I'm already painfully close to qualifying for Sq-1, but I doubt I'll make it. So, definitely four events, likely one other (skewb) and a handful of unlikely possibles...


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## Shaky Hands (Feb 19, 2017)

Am a bit disappointed Clock qualification is 15s rather than 20s, but they've got to do what they need to do to keep the comp running on time.

Will look forward to it anyway, should be a fun experience even if I'm just going to do 15 solves (and 10 of those are for 2x2 and Pyra, events I don't practice.) Looks like all my solves will only be on the Saturday too, so will do some sightseeing over the course of time I'm there.


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## newtonbase (Feb 19, 2017)

I'm only going for 1 night and it looks like I might not be able to get there for 3x3 but 3BLD isn't until late and there's still pyraminx! I don't really care as long as I get to compete in something. PB streak will be at risk though. 
I've booked my hotel and hope to get travel sorted tomorrow.


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## Logiqx (Feb 19, 2017)

Qualification times are somewhat harder than US nationals which I guess isn't surprising. At least we can all do 2x2, 3x3, Pyra. Maybe I should started practicing the pointy puzzle again!

I seem to be averaging around 28s for OH but I don't know if I'll get an official sub-30 at Peterborough. I have good days and bad days putting aside competition nerves! Skewb, I'm probably averaging around 11-12 but any given Ao5 is very scramble dependent so the 12s qualification is tight for me. In 4x4, I think I'm averaging around 1:15 so the 1:10 is somewhat unlikely but it is doable on a good day.

I've been practicing all of my events for Peterborough with no specific focus on any one event but I might have to put a little more focus on OH and Skewb with just two weeks to go!


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## newtonbase (Feb 19, 2017)

bubbagrub said:


> If I really focus on speed in BLD at Peterborough, it's possible I could qualify for that.


You aren't far off. Hammer your speed in practice and I'm sure you can do it.


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## mark49152 (Feb 19, 2017)

Woo-hoo! Qualified for everything I care about, except 5x5, and that's pretty much out of reach. I will try to be there all four days since my events are spread out. Three MBLD attempts! Marvellous!


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## newtonbase (Feb 19, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> Three MBLD attempts! Marvellous!


Fantastic! Wish I could get there in time to see it.


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## mark49152 (Feb 19, 2017)

bubbagrub said:


> If I really focus on speed in BLD at Peterborough, it's possible I could qualify for that. Doing MBLD will depend on getting 5/5 in Peterborough, which doesn't seem super likely...


Go for it 



newtonbase said:


> Fantastic! Wish I could get there in time to see it.


What's your travel schedule? Third attempt is 10am Saturday but 3x3 first round is 11am.

I didn't realise there would be three MBLD attempts so I might actually sacrifice the first in order to travel Thursday morning instead of Weds evening.


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## newtonbase (Feb 20, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> What's your travel schedule? Third attempt is 10am Saturday but 3x3 first round is 11am.


I'm travelling from home that morning. I don't have the exact times yet but I'll probably arrive at some point during the first round of 3x3.


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## Logiqx (Feb 20, 2017)

@Selkie, @mark49152, @newtonbase, @bubbagrub 

Are any of you guys travelling back from Paris on the Sunday night?


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## bubbagrub (Feb 20, 2017)

Logiqx said:


> @Selkie, @mark49152, @newtonbase, @bubbagrub
> 
> Are any of you guys travelling back from Paris on the Sunday night?



Not decided yet... Most likely we'll travel back before activities finish, earlier on Sunday afternoon... Kids will back at school the next day, so we don't want to get home too late...


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## newtonbase (Feb 20, 2017)

Logiqx said:


> @Selkie, @mark49152, @newtonbase, @bubbagrub
> 
> Are any of you guys travelling back from Paris on the Sunday night?


Yes. Hoping to choose a time shortly. Need to catch the 3x3 final but not miss the last train home from Euston.


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## Logiqx (Feb 20, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> Yes. Hoping to choose a time shortly. Need to catch the 3x3 final but not miss the last train home from Euston.



Do you mind if I tag along on the way home?


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## newtonbase (Feb 20, 2017)

No problem. I won't clog up this thread with details. We have a dedicated place for that. 
I've decided to not bother trying to arrive in time for 3x3 on the Saturday. My very best effort would still leave me with little chance of making it.


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## mark49152 (Feb 20, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> I've decided to not bother trying to arrive in time for 3x3 on the Saturday. My very best effort would still leave me with little chance of making it.


That's a shame but as long as you're around for the finals that's the main thing. I'm looking forward to that most of all...


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## muchacho (Feb 20, 2017)

3x3 Ao5 PB: 15.912 ...small improvement but previous PB (16.097) was from October, so happy to finally beat it.



Spoiler



37938 20-feb-2017 15:16:30 00:15.528 D F2 U R2 U' L2 F2 U' L2 U' B2 L B' D' F L D L' D2 R2
37937 20-feb-2017 15:15:58 00:15.805 D2 F2 D' R2 D B2 L2 U2 B2 U B2 L' F R' D2 L2 D' B L' U' L2 U'
37936 20-feb-2017 15:15:25 00:15.925 U2 R2 U F2 D' L2 B2 R2 D2 B2 U B' L' B2 R2 U2 B2 F D' R'
37935 20-feb-2017 15:14:47 00:19.190 R2 F2 U F2 R2 L2 F2 U R2 B2 D F' U2 B R D2 L B' L2 B' F
37934 20-feb-2017 15:14:11 00:16.007 D' L2 U B2 F2 D2 B2 D' F2 L2 D' F' D' B' L2 D2 L B2 U' R2 B



edit: also Ao12 PB: 17.823, ridiculous improvement from 17.874



Spoiler



37943 20-feb-2017 15:29:41 00:15.880 U2 B2 L2 D' B2 D F2 R2 U' L2 U2 B U L U' F' R F L2 D' F D'
37942 20-feb-2017 15:29:02 00:17.687 U B2 U B2 R2 F2 D2 F2 U F2 U2 B' U2 F U R' U2 L2 B2 D2 R'
37941 20-feb-2017 15:28:20 00:17.486 D' B2 U F2 U2 F2 U' F2 D2 U2 F' R' D2 F2 D2 U' R U' R2 F U'
37940 20-feb-2017 15:27:39 00:20.367 R2 F2 D' B2 D2 U R2 B2 R2 B2 L B D R' L' D' U2 R F' L' U'
37939 20-feb-2017 15:17:05 00:24.964 R2 D B2 D L2 D' L2 U2 B2 R2 U L' F' D2 L' F2 D U F2 R F' U'
37938 20-feb-2017 15:16:30 00:15.528 D F2 U R2 U' L2 F2 U' L2 U' B2 L B' D' F L D L' D2 R2
37937 20-feb-2017 15:15:58 00:15.805 D2 F2 D' R2 D B2 L2 U2 B2 U B2 L' F R' D2 L2 D' B L' U' L2 U'
37936 20-feb-2017 15:15:25 00:15.925 U2 R2 U F2 D' L2 B2 R2 D2 B2 U B' L' B2 R2 U2 B2 F D' R'
37935 20-feb-2017 15:14:47 00:19.190 R2 F2 U F2 R2 L2 F2 U R2 B2 D F' U2 B R D2 L B' L2 B' F
37934 20-feb-2017 15:14:11 00:16.007 D' L2 U B2 F2 D2 B2 D' F2 L2 D' F' D' B' L2 D2 L B2 U' R2 B
37933 20-feb-2017 15:13:33 00:19.799 U R2 L2 F2 U R2 B2 R2 L2 U F2 R' U' B' F2 L' D' U' F R2 B L
37932 20-feb-2017 15:12:55 00:20.087 R2 D B2 D' R2 B2 F2 U2 B2 R2 D2 B L' D R B' D F2 D F2 R2 U'



edit2: and OH Single PB: 19.518 oh yeah!



Spoiler



3450 20-feb-2017 15:51:12 00:19.518 B2 L2 D U' R2 D B2 D B2 L2 B2 L' D U2 B U2 F R2 B R F2 U2





Spoiler: 19.518 reconstruction



y2 x'
L' U L U' M U' M2 L U' L' U2 L2 z2
U M U2 M' U2 Lw U Lw' M' U' M' Lw' U Lw
F R U R' U' F'
M' U2 M' U2 M U M' U2 M2 U M U2 M'

45 STM


----------



## h2f (Feb 20, 2017)

Nice @muchacho. I got 23.45 OH single full step right now. 
L U2 L2 U R2 D U' R2 D' L2 R2 F D2 B' R2 U2 L' D' B D2
z2 //inspection
U2 R F2 // I saw easy start thats why U2 in the beginning. 
y' U' R U2 R' U' R U R'
y2 L' U L
y U' L' U L
R U R' y' U R' U' R
U2 R U R' U R U' R' U' R' F R F'
M2 U' M2 U2 M2 U' M2 U2


----------



## Logiqx (Feb 20, 2017)

Nice OH times @muchacho and @h2f.

It must be a good day for OH as I started my session with a 19.43 full step.

In other news, I got my first sub-1:10 Ao5 on 4x4 today - 1:09.01.


----------



## mark49152 (Feb 20, 2017)

Go WC 4x4 qualification, Mike


----------



## h2f (Feb 20, 2017)

Logiqx said:


> Nice OH times @muchacho and @h2f.
> 
> It must be a good day for OH as I started my session with a 19.43 full step.
> 
> In other news, I got my first sub-1:10 Ao5 on 4x4 today - 1:09.01.



Nice. I'm waiting for new month to buy Wuque stickerless. My Aosu seems so crappy.


----------



## pipkiksass (Feb 20, 2017)

Funnily enough, did my first 4x4 "session" in ages today. Only 21 solves (didn't have much time), but a host of PBS.

Single PB - 1.05.70 (down from 1.06.73)
Ao5 PB - 1:10.46 (down from 1:15.48
Ao12 PB - 1:13.99 (down from 1:19.16)

I'm probably just over 1000 timed 4x4 solved now, if only my 3x3 progress had been this rapid!!!

As ever, improvement is down to not timing solves. But still, that's ridiculous improvement, my Ao12 PB is now faster than my Ao5 PB was an hour ago. Pretty sure if I had time to carry on they would fall even further, CURRENT Ao5/12 are both PBs, and the session started with a couple of 1:20+ solves.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Logiqx (Feb 20, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> Go WC 4x4 qualification, Mike



Second session of 12 included another <1:10 Ao5 - 1:09.24.

Averaging 1:13 today.


----------



## Shaky Hands (Feb 20, 2017)

Learned how to solve Megaminx. Early days at the moment with this puzzle, so I'm averaging about 11 minutes and struggling to find pieces. I'm sure a massive percentage of the time is pausing, either from finding pieces or from trying to work out how to insert. PB single for now is 8:14.00. Another thing that Megaminx is proving to me is how inefficient my F2L is. It's probably a wake-up call to me to do some dedicated F2L practice.

Fun puzzle though. At this point I would be able to say I know how to solve every WCA puzzle, except I've forgotten SQ-1 since I originally learned it!


----------



## bubbagrub (Feb 20, 2017)

Shaky Hands said:


> Learned how to solve Megaminx. Early days at the moment with this puzzle, so I'm averaging about 11 minutes and struggling to find pieces. I'm sure a massive percentage of the time is pausing, either from finding pieces or from trying to work out how to insert. PB single for now is 8:14.00. Another thing that Megaminx is proving to me is how inefficient my F2L is. It's probably a wake-up call to me to do some dedicated F2L practice.
> 
> Fun puzzle though. At this point I would be able to say I know how to solve every WCA puzzle, except I've forgotten SQ-1 since I originally learned it!


I've been solving megaminx for years, and I still spend most of my time hunting around for missing edges... I find it quite a frustrating puzzle now, but probably mainly because I don't look ahead at all...


----------



## bubbagrub (Feb 20, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> Go for it



You inspired me to go for it... I just had my first ever attempt at MBLD with 5 cubes, and I got 5/5, although it took me a few seconds over fifty minutes, so technically it's 4/5... Still, that's a very pleasing start!


----------



## mark49152 (Feb 20, 2017)

bubbagrub said:


> You inspired me to go for it... I just had my first ever attempt at MBLD with 5 cubes, and I got 5/5, although it took me a few seconds over fifty minutes, so technically it's 4/5... Still, that's a very pleasing start!


Awesome! Nice job! You'll shave off several minutes easily before Peterborough.


----------



## mafergut (Feb 20, 2017)

Nice PBs @muchacho (impressive sub-20 OH single!) and everyone. It looks like today is 4x4 PB day and I don't wanna miss the party, so here I come with mine:
PB Ao5 = 1:08.19 (was 1:08.79)
PB Ao12 = 1:10.66 (was 1:12.08)
A session of 36 solves averaging low 1:14.xx and with 4 sub 1:05 singles (no more sub 1min yet but a couple close calls).
Also, even though I don't track them, a very nice Mo3 of 1:05.64.

Also, fun fact, yesterday I did some 5x5 and tied my PB to the hundredth  Got another 2:20.20. It should have been faster, though, but I looked at the timer at 2:10 while finishing OLL and got distracted... and also I got one of my worst PLLs, specially for big cubes (E-perm). I would accept suggestions for good E-perms for biggies


----------



## bubbagrub (Feb 20, 2017)

mafergut said:


> I would accept suggestions for good E-perms for biggies



Personally I use this one:

(R2 U R' U') y (R U R' U') (R U R' U') (R U R') y' (R U' R2)

It's long, but it's easy to execute.


----------



## newtonbase (Feb 20, 2017)

bubbagrub said:


> You inspired me to go for it... I just had my first ever attempt at MBLD with 5 cubes, and I got 5/5, although it took me a few seconds over fifty minutes, so technically it's 4/5... Still, that's a very pleasing start!





bubbagrub said:


> You inspired me to go for it... I just had my first ever attempt at MBLD with 5 cubes, and I got 5/5, although it took me a few seconds over fifty minutes, so technically it's 4/5... Still, that's a very pleasing start!


Well done. As @mark49152 says you'll be fine for time by your next comp. 
I was planning to do 4 at lunchtime but other stuff got in the way so I tried 2 instead. Got 1/2 as I remembered the wrong superhero for my very last letter. Grrr,


----------



## h2f (Feb 20, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> was planning to do 4 at lunchtime but other stuff got in the way so I tried 2 instead. Got 1/2 as I remembered the wrong superhero for my very last letter. Grrr,



You both Marks inspiered me to make first attempt of mbld. I did it yesterday and finished with 1/3. I've messed edges when undoing something. And on the second forgot about twisted corner. Lesson learned: adding twists and flipps to memo images for edges and corners not as single image. I've figured out to use letter pairs which dont occur on 3x3 (like UB/BU) and add it in the end of the sentence/image. Previously I add it as a single image which often led to mistakes.


----------



## newtonbase (Feb 20, 2017)

h2f said:


> You both Marks inspiered me to make first attempt of mbld. I did it yesterday and finished with 1/3. I've messed edges when undoing something. And on the second forgot about twisted corner. Lesson learned: adding twists and flipps to memo images for edges and corners not as single image. I've figured out to use letter pairs which dont occur on 3x3 (like UB/BU) and add it in the end of the sentence/image. Previously I add it as a single image which often led to mistakes.


I use double letters for edge flips so UR/RU in Speffz is B/M so I could use Bob or Mum. It reminds me to use a flipping alg rather than shoot to both stickers.


----------



## h2f (Feb 20, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> I use double letters for edge flips so UR/RU in Speffz is B/M so I could use Bob or Mum



That was what I meant.  For parities I use a pair with FD.


----------



## mafergut (Feb 20, 2017)

bubbagrub said:


> Personally I use this one:
> 
> (R2 U R' U') y (R U R' U') (R U R' U') (R U R') y' (R U' R2)
> 
> It's long, but it's easy to execute.


Thanks. It definitely flows much better than the one I was using, especially for big cubes but I might even adopt it for 3x3.

Sent from my Nexus 4 with Tapatalk


----------



## newtonbase (Feb 20, 2017)

h2f said:


> That was what I meant.  For parities I use a pair with FD.


I use superheroes for parities but I wish I hadn't started. They are really good images so only using them every 2nd solve seems a waste. Using an extra sticker from the buffer piece makes sense. You get multiple options and can memo everything in pairs which is neater. It would be hard to change but maybe now is the time.


----------



## mark49152 (Feb 20, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> I use double letters for edge flips so UR/RU in Speffz is B/M so I could use Bob or Mum. It reminds me to use a flipping alg rather than shoot to both stickers.


I use both stickers because I already have images for those from corners and BigBLD and don't want to add more . I used to sometimes shoot to both stickers but these days I rarely make that mistake as I just know that a "net" image is a flip of the N/T edge, etc.


----------



## newtonbase (Feb 20, 2017)

mafergut said:


> Thanks. It definitely flows much better than the one I was using, especially for big cubes but I might even adopt it for 3x3.
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 4 with Tapatalk


That is nice.


----------



## h2f (Feb 20, 2017)

mafergut said:


> It definitely flows much better than the one I was using, especially for big cubes but I might even adopt it for 3x3.



I use it in OH. 

I just made an attempt of 5bld. 6 minutes to memo everything except +centers. 5 to memo +centers and corners (I have a problem with +centers - I need just practice it more) and next mistake when twisting corner and dnf after 30 seconds. I love 5bld.


----------



## newtonbase (Feb 20, 2017)

h2f said:


> I just made an attempt of 5bld. 6 minutes to memo everything except +centers. 5 to memo +centers and corners (I have a problem with +centers - I need just practice it more) and next mistake when twisting corner and dnf after 30 seconds. I love 5bld.


Ouch.


----------



## Jason Green (Feb 21, 2017)

bubbagrub said:


> Personally I use this one:
> 
> (R2 U R' U') y (R U R' U') (R U R' U') (R U R') y' (R U' R2)
> 
> It's long, but it's easy to execute.


It's mine for OH now also.

Here's my videos from Dallas comp.


----------



## newtonbase (Feb 21, 2017)

Jason Green said:


> It's mine for OH now also.
> 
> Here's my videos from Dallas comp.


Very nice @Jason Green 
Do you do any 2 sided PLL recognition? Pretty sure it would save you at least half a second.


----------



## Jason Green (Feb 21, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> Very nice @Jason Green
> Do you do any 2 sided PLL recognition? Pretty sure it would save you at least half a second.


Thanks. Very little 2 sided recognition, maybe J perms and... That's all I can think of. I agree I'm slow to recognize the case. Chris Olson judged my 2x2 once and I told him I could recognize my PBL in the time he could solve it.


----------



## newtonbase (Feb 21, 2017)

Jason Green said:


> Thanks. Very little 2 sided recognition, maybe J perms and... That's all I can think of. I agree I'm slow to recognize the case. Chris Olson judged my 2x2 once and I told him I could recognize my PBL in the time he could solve it.


Ha ha!


----------



## muchacho (Feb 21, 2017)

Mo100 3x3 PB: 19.493 (old was 19.894 from 5 weeks ago). Oh how I love/need sunny days. I guess I should buy some good lights to not be dependent on natural lighting.



Spoiler



38077 21-feb-2017 12:00:08 00:28.917 R2 D2 R2 L2 U L2 U2 L2 F2 R2 D F R D' L' D2 B' D2 R' D2 R' U'
38076 21-feb-2017 11:59:29 00:20.663 B2 U B2 L2 D B2 D2 F2 U' L2 D2 B' R2 U' F L B F' L2 B U' L'
38075 21-feb-2017 11:58:52 00:19.344 L2 B2 U' B2 R2 D R2 L2 F2 U L B' U2 L2 D2 F2 D2 U' R'
38074 21-feb-2017 11:58:02 00:14.999 F2 D' R2 U' F2 L2 D' L2 U R2 U' F U F R U2 F' D2 R L' D2
38073 21-feb-2017 11:57:28 00:17.175 D' F2 R2 D' R2 D L2 F2 D B2 D2 F' R U F' D U2 B' R L2 D U2
38072 21-feb-2017 11:56:49 00:20.087 R2 D2 U R2 D R2 L2 F2 U' B2 D2 R' B2 U2 L2 D F R' U' R' D' U'
38071 21-feb-2017 11:56:11 00:19.286 F2 U' B2 D' F2 D' R2 U F2 R2 F' D2 U B' L' F R' B2 R2 L'
38070 21-feb-2017 11:55:12 00:18.294 F2 D B2 D R2 D2 R2 L2 D L2 U F' D U2 R2 L' B U2 B U' F
38069 21-feb-2017 11:54:34 00:16.557 F2 D' F2 D' R2 U2 L2 B2 D' B2 D L B2 F' R B' R2 F2 R L' U2
38068 21-feb-2017 11:53:51 00:21.949 R2 U2 L2 U B2 D' U2 R2 L2 B2 F2 R' D2 L F' R2 U R2 L' U R' U
38067 21-feb-2017 11:53:16 00:18.284 D L2 D' R2 U L2 D F2 D2 R2 U' L U2 R F2 U' B2 F U2 L2 F2 U'
38066 21-feb-2017 11:52:38 00:18.103 B2 R2 D' B2 D2 F2 R2 U R2 L2 U' F B2 D2 L B2 F' U2 L D' U
38065 21-feb-2017 11:52:02 00:19.094 F2 D R2 B2 L2 U2 F2 U' B2 D F' R D' L' B F' U' F R U R'
38064 21-feb-2017 11:51:18 00:23.831 U2 B2 U L2 F2 U B2 U2 R2 F2 U' B' D' R' F2 D' L' B' U R' B U
38063 21-feb-2017 11:50:37 00:18.414 B2 R2 F2 R2 D' L2 D' F2 R2 U2 R2 F' R2 L' D R F2 L2 D2 U' B2 U'
38062 21-feb-2017 11:49:55 00:24.502 F2 D F2 D' L2 B2 D2 R2 U' F2 R' F' D' U2 R2 F' R U L2 F' L'
38061 21-feb-2017 11:49:22 00:15.815 U2 L2 U2 R2 U B2 D R2 D' B2 D' L D' L B R2 F2 L F2 R' F'
38060 21-feb-2017 11:48:30 00:16.096 B2 U B2 U' F2 L2 U' R2 F2 L2 U F' D2 F2 L2 D R D2 L B D' U'
38059 21-feb-2017 11:47:51 00:17.989 R2 D' R2 U' L2 D B2 L2 B2 L B2 U' B' R' L F2 L2 B D'
38058 21-feb-2017 11:47:12 00:19.342 U' B2 L2 B2 F2 U2 B2 R2 U L2 F' L U2 F D' B' D L' D2 F
38057 21-feb-2017 11:46:29 00:21.431 U F2 U' B2 F2 D' L2 B2 R2 B2 U F L' D2 U L U' F R' F' D L2
38056 21-feb-2017 11:45:52 00:19.519 L2 B2 F2 U2 R2 L2 U' L2 D U R2 B' D' R D' L D B R B' D2
38055 21-feb-2017 11:45:11 00:17.920 L2 B2 D2 B2 D B2 D' L2 F2 D B2 R B2 D F' R2 D2 R D' B' L U'
38054 21-feb-2017 11:44:33 00:16.951 D2 R2 D L2 U2 R2 B2 U L2 F2 L2 B' U2 L B2 R D' R2 U2 B2 R' U2
38053 21-feb-2017 11:44:00 00:15.800 U B2 L2 D B2 R2 B2 D U R2 F2 R' F' R2 U B2 D' B' L D L
38052 21-feb-2017 11:43:18 00:21.815 B2 R2 L2 D2 L2 B2 D F2 U2 B2 U2 B' U L' B D2 U' F' L' D' B'
38051 21-feb-2017 11:42:39 00:20.807 D B2 F2 R2 D2 L2 D B2 U R2 U R' B2 U' F U' L U2 F2 D'
38050 21-feb-2017 11:41:56 00:18.343 B2 U F2 U B2 U F2 L2 B2 R2 F2 R' B D' L' U' F2 D2 B' R B2 F2
38049 21-feb-2017 11:40:44 00:17.742 U' B2 F2 L2 F2 D2 U F2 R2 D2 U' F' R' B U2 L' U2 R2 U' F2 D2
38048 21-feb-2017 11:40:10 00:17.110 U' R2 F2 U' B2 R2 D L2 U F2 D R' L' B' U' B' F2 L F' L B' L
38047 21-feb-2017 11:39:32 00:20.710 R2 L2 F2 D L2 F2 D' U2 B2 D L2 B' D2 L2 B2 R L B L F2 L2 U'
38046 21-feb-2017 11:38:48 00:20.926 R2 B2 U R2 D' F2 U' R2 D B2 L B R2 U' R2 B R D L B D2
38045 21-feb-2017 11:38:12 00:19.463 U2 B2 L2 B2 D' F2 U2 F2 U2 L2 D2 B' U L2 B2 L F D' B U2 F'
38044 21-feb-2017 11:37:26 00:23.327 D L2 D F2 U L2 U' F2 U' L2 U' B' R2 L D' F U R F U2 L'
38043 21-feb-2017 11:36:45 00:20.789 D2 R2 B2 F2 U' L2 F2 D' R2 D L' R2 U' B R2 F L U2 F D2 U'
38042 21-feb-2017 11:36:12 00:17.502 R2 B2 R2 U2 F2 U2 F2 U2 L2 D' L F2 D L' F2 D' L F' R' F' U'
38041 21-feb-2017 11:35:25 00:24.927 L2 U' F2 L2 D R2 D' U' B2 D2 U' L B F2 L2 U' B2 R F' R2 U' B
38040 21-feb-2017 11:34:48 00:16.103 U B2 U' B2 U B2 F2 R2 U' F2 U2 L' F2 U2 R' F' L' D B' U' R'
38039 21-feb-2017 11:34:08 00:22.790 U2 B2 R2 F2 U' B2 R2 U2 L2 D' B2 L' B' F' L' D' R B U2 R2 F U'
38038 21-feb-2017 11:33:30 00:15.863 D2 L2 U R2 D' F2 U' L2 U2 R2 B2 L B F L' D2 R D' L2 F' R' U'
38037 21-feb-2017 11:32:53 00:18.118 B2 R2 U' F2 U F2 U B2 D2 R2 D' F' R' U2 B' L' B2 D' F' R L2 D'
38036 21-feb-2017 11:32:19 00:17.870 R2 D2 L2 D2 U' L2 D' F2 R2 L2 D L' U F2 R' F U2 L' D L' F
38035 21-feb-2017 11:31:38 00:21.070 R2 B2 F2 D' L2 U' B2 D2 U2 L2 F' U' R2 B' D L' U F D' R U'
38034 21-feb-2017 11:31:00 00:18.271 U' B2 F2 R2 U' R2 L2 B2 U2 L2 U2 B' L B2 F' D R2 U R F2 L2 D2
38033 21-feb-2017 11:30:23 00:16.023 D B2 F2 R2 D' L2 D R2 D' U' L2 F' U F2 R2 L' F' R D' B' F U'
38032 21-feb-2017 11:29:33 00:30.086 U L2 F2 R2 U2 F2 D2 U B2 U' L F' R2 D' R2 L B' U' B' D
38031 21-feb-2017 11:28:56 00:18.059 D' R2 D B2 U' B2 U' L2 U' R2 U R' D2 F2 D L B' R' D2 U2 B' U2
38030 21-feb-2017 11:28:19 00:16.816 B2 F2 L2 D2 F2 U F2 U' F2 L2 U F' L U2 B F' D' F2 U L2 B2
38029 21-feb-2017 11:27:42 00:17.446 D2 B2 R2 L2 D' F2 D R2 D2 L2 U2 R' U' F D' L' D B' L B
38028 21-feb-2017 11:27:04 00:20.222 U' R2 U' B2 D F2 U' L2 F2 R2 L2 F' R D R U' L B' R2 L2 B
38027 21-feb-2017 11:26:25 00:18.390 U' F2 U2 R2 U R2 D' B2 D B2 F2 R B2 L2 B D R L2 F' U2 L' F2
38026 21-feb-2017 11:25:37 00:23.422 U2 L2 U L2 U2 B2 D' L2 F2 L2 F2 R' D B2 U L F' R D L B' D'
38025 21-feb-2017 11:25:00 00:18.862 B2 L2 D' R2 B2 R2 D2 R2 D R2 F2 L' U B' F2 D U' R L2 B2 U2
38024 21-feb-2017 11:24:17 00:19.798 D F2 U2 F2 U' F2 U' B2 U L2 B2 R D2 F' D2 F2 R F' R F2 D' U'
38023 21-feb-2017 11:23:35 00:19.894 U' B2 U L2 B2 U' F2 R2 D' F' L' U2 B R D' U2 L' D2 R' F'
38022 21-feb-2017 11:22:51 00:23.832 D F2 R2 U L2 D L2 B2 R2 D R2 F' D2 B2 R' B' U B L' B2 U2 L
38021 21-feb-2017 11:22:05 00:21.397 L2 D' B2 D' R2 U2 L2 F2 U' F2 D B' F2 R D2 B' D F R2
38020 21-feb-2017 11:21:32 00:15.287 U R2 U' L2 F2 U B2 L2 D R2 U L' F' R F U B2 D2 L D B'
38019 21-feb-2017 11:20:54 00:15.606 D' R2 U' L2 B2 F2 U B2 D2 B2 U B' D' B2 U2 R' U B2 U F' U
38018 21-feb-2017 11:20:20 00:18.046 R2 D' R2 L2 B2 D F2 U R2 B2 L2 B' D' L F D2 B2 F R D' U2
38017 21-feb-2017 11:19:38 00:18.559 L2 B2 D' F2 R2 L2 D F2 U2 L2 U' B' R' D L' D2 B F' L2 F' R2
38016 21-feb-2017 11:19:06 00:14.438 F2 D2 B2 D' B2 D' B2 U R2 F2 U R D L B L' B U' B2 R' L2 U
38015 21-feb-2017 11:18:22 00:25.007 D2 F2 D' R2 B2 U' B2 D2 F2 D B' L' F2 U' R2 B' D' B2 U2 R
38014 21-feb-2017 11:17:44 00:17.268 U' B2 F2 D' U2 L2 F2 U' R2 B2 D F R2 L2 F' D' L2 B R' U2 F' R'
38013 21-feb-2017 11:17:07 00:17.565 U L2 F2 U2 R2 B2 U F2 D2 U' F2 L' F' D2 U' B F R D U R2 D
38012 21-feb-2017 11:16:28 00:18.150 F2 D U2 B2 R2 D R2 D' L2 F R' B R U' B' D2 B' D' R D U'
38011 21-feb-2017 11:15:53 00:16.598 F2 R2 U' R2 D U2 F2 R2 U L2 D2 F' R' D R2 D' L B' L' B2 L2 U'
38010 21-feb-2017 11:15:11 00:23.709 L2 F2 U2 B2 L2 U L2 U' B2 D' B R F R2 L' F' R' B2 L2 D2 U'
38009 21-feb-2017 11:14:31 00:19.119 L2 F2 L2 D' B2 U' F2 U' F2 L2 D' L B L2 D2 B R2 D' B' D' R2
38008 21-feb-2017 11:13:46 00:23.358 D' U2 L2 U B2 D L2 U' L2 D F D2 U' L D' L2 D2 R' B D U'
38007 21-feb-2017 11:13:02 00:22.039 L2 F2 U2 R2 D' L2 D F2 U B2 F2 R B' L' D F' R2 B2 L2 D' F L
38006 21-feb-2017 11:12:21 00:17.614 U' L2 D' L2 U' R2 D' R2 L2 F2 D2 R' B' U R2 B2 U2 F R' F2 U'
38005 21-feb-2017 11:11:39 00:21.966 L2 B2 L2 U' F2 D' L2 F2 D2 L2 B' R' F2 R' L' U' F' L2 F' L'
38004 21-feb-2017 11:11:04 00:18.041 D B2 D2 L2 D2 U' L2 D' L2 B2 U' R L U' F R' B' F2 L F' L U'
38003 21-feb-2017 11:10:26 00:19.150 F2 L2 F2 U2 R2 D R2 F2 D2 F2 D' R F2 D R2 L2 D B' R F R' U2
38002 21-feb-2017 11:09:48 00:18.486 U2 B2 D2 F2 L2 D R2 D R2 B2 U' L' B F2 L' F' D2 F2 U' B' U2 R
38001 21-feb-2017 11:09:03 00:20.358 D2 B2 L2 F2 D' B2 L2 D' U L' D B2 R' D2 R B F' D F' D'
38000 21-feb-2017 11:08:22 00:21.895 U2 R2 D B2 U' L2 F2 R2 L2 U L2 B D2 F D R F2 R2 U' F' L' D2
37999 21-feb-2017 11:07:43 00:19.399 D2 R2 L2 F2 U F2 U' F2 U F2 U2 F' U2 F2 U' R' U2 F' U L' U2
37998 21-feb-2017 11:07:12 00:16.311 D' L2 D2 B2 D' B2 L2 F2 R2 D' U' R B U2 R' L2 F U' L D' U' B
37997 21-feb-2017 11:06:30 00:18.356 U2 R2 U2 R2 D' B2 R2 U' B2 D' B2 R' B R F2 L' D R' L2 U' L
37996 21-feb-2017 11:05:47 00:24.461 B2 U' B2 D' F2 R2 B2 U2 L2 D' U' F' R B R2 U2 L D' L B' D2 U
37995 21-feb-2017 11:05:05 00:19.375 R2 F2 R2 L2 F2 D' B2 D R2 D2 R B2 F R' D2 U2 F R' L D' U'
37994 21-feb-2017 11:04:24 00:21.934 F2 R2 B2 F2 D' U F2 L2 D2 U' L2 F' R2 U L2 F R2 L B2 U2 R
37993 21-feb-2017 11:03:37 00:24.926 F2 D F2 D' U2 B2 U2 F2 R2 D F2 L' U B2 L' B2 R2 U' B F R U'
37992 21-feb-2017 10:00:32 00:17.903 U' R2 U' B2 F2 L2 D2 F2 U R2 U F U' B2 R' B' D' F U' R D2 B2
37991 21-feb-2017 9:59:54 00:16.799 F2 U2 L2 F2 R2 D' R2 D' B2 U' B2 L U2 B D L' F' D' U F' D2
37990 21-feb-2017 9:59:12 00:22.046 D2 R2 D' L2 D' L2 F2 U2 B2 U2 R2 B L' D' R' L D U R' F2 U' B
37989 21-feb-2017 9:58:32 00:23.087 D' B2 U B2 U2 B2 R2 B2 D' F2 U2 R D' F2 R2 L2 F' R2 F2 D
37988 21-feb-2017 9:57:51 00:18.999 R2 D2 B2 U' B2 U' B2 D B2 L2 U' B U2 L2 B' R2 L' B D' R2
37987 21-feb-2017 9:56:43 00:19.695 F2 U B2 R2 D2 B2 U' R2 D2 B2 U R F R U2 B' U B2 L2 B2
37986 21-feb-2017 9:56:02 00:16.744 R2 U B2 R2 L2 D' F2 D2 R2 L2 U2 F' L2 B' R' U R2 U L2 B L2
37985 21-feb-2017 9:55:22 00:18.493 U' R2 D2 U F2 L2 D F2 L2 U B2 L' F R2 D' U' R' B U' L D U'
37984 21-feb-2017 9:54:38 00:20.038 F2 D2 L2 D' B2 D B2 R2 U2 R2 F R L B L' F' U' F' D2 U
37983 21-feb-2017 9:54:01 00:19.246 F2 D' L2 U' R2 D' U' L2 U R2 L2 B' L D U' B U' B U' R' F2
37982 21-feb-2017 9:53:24 00:16.422 U2 F2 D' R2 B2 D' F2 U L2 D R2 B R F R U' B2 D2 R' D' L' D2
37981 21-feb-2017 9:52:46 00:17.768 L2 D' F2 U' B2 D' U' F2 U' F2 L2 F' R D' L' U B D2 R2 D' L'
37980 21-feb-2017 9:52:07 00:18.775 U F2 U L2 F2 L2 U B2 D U L2 B R' F2 U F L B' F2 U B2 D
37979 21-feb-2017 9:51:30 00:17.543 F2 D2 R2 D F2 D2 L2 F2 U' B2 U2 R U2 F2 R2 B2 U B D' R D'
37978 21-feb-2017 9:50:52 00:20.566 L2 B2 D2 R2 D L2 D' F2 U R2 U' F L F' R U' R2 L2 B' L D U'


----------



## h2f (Feb 21, 2017)

muchacho said:


> Mo100 3x3 PB: 19.493 (old was 19.894 from 5 weeks ago). Oh how I love/need sunny days. I guess I should buy some good lights to not be dependent on natural lighting



Nice jump. I had the same problem earlier till I've changed the light in my room. Now it's ok.


----------



## mark49152 (Feb 21, 2017)

mafergut said:


> It looks like today is 4x4 PB day and I don't wanna miss the party


A day late but I wanted to join the party too, so ao12 = 1:03.26, PB by 0.01. Woohoo!


----------



## phreaker (Feb 21, 2017)

Update on BLD:

Went 2/3 on corners only scrambles last night. Very encouraging.

Letters are starting to map to corners automatically, more and more.

M2 is almost in my hands now, so edges should follow soon... Memo will be interesting as I try edges... 8 letters you can hold memory. 12-14... not so much .

Grats on the MBLD results folks!


----------



## newtonbase (Feb 21, 2017)

phreaker said:


> Update on BLD:
> 
> Went 2/3 on corners only scrambles last night. Very encouraging.
> 
> ...


Good progress. More letters is just practice. Your images will get stronger so you can remember more and for longer and when you speed up you won't need to hold it as long. 

I did a couple more attempts at 2 cubes myself last night. 1/2 where I didn't undo the 2nd to last corner setup and then 2/2 in about 8:30 which was all images. Definitely getting stronger and I'm hoping to get in another 4 cube attempt soon.


----------



## mafergut (Feb 21, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> A day late but I wanted to join the party too, so ao12 = 1:03.26, PB by 0.01. Woohoo!


Wow! But you are on a completely different league. Those last 8-10 seconds are progressively more difficult to shave off. I doubt I'll ever be that close to sub 1min.


----------



## mark49152 (Feb 21, 2017)

mafergut said:


> Wow! But you are on a completely different league. Those last 8-10 seconds are progressively more difficult to shave off. I doubt I'll ever be that close to sub 1min.


Yeah you will, and it does get harder, which means you will inevitably close the gap . My ao12 PB on this date last year was 1:10.54. So in a year I shaved off only 7 seconds.


----------



## mafergut (Feb 21, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> Yeah you will, and it does get harder, which means you will inevitably close the gap . My ao12 PB on this date last year was 1:10.54. So in a year I shaved off only 7 seconds.


Well, my PB from yesterday is very similar to that so, let's see where I am in a year.

Sent from my Nexus 4 with Tapatalk


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## phreaker (Feb 22, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> Good progress. More letters is just practice. Your images will get stronger so you can remember more and for longer and when you speed up you won't need to hold it as long.
> 
> I did a couple more attempts at 2 cubes myself last night. 1/2 where I didn't undo the 2nd to last corner setup and then 2/2 in about 8:30 which was all images. Definitely getting stronger and I'm hoping to get in another 4 cube attempt soon.



Nice... Good luck. I've got some more drilling on M2 still to do... But once I do.. .edges, then onto a whole cube. I know success isn't far off at this point. It is more a matter of putting in the time, and making sure I get the results.

Those C,X, I, S and Q targets are a bit of a challenge. . (C and X aren't bad.. just need to remember them.)


----------



## pglewis (Feb 22, 2017)

phreaker said:


> Nice... Good luck. I've got some more drilling on M2 still to do... But once I do.. .edges, then onto a whole cube. I know success isn't far off at this point. It is more a matter of putting in the time, and making sure I get the results.
> 
> Those C,X, I, S and Q targets are a bit of a challenge. . (C and X aren't bad.. just need to remember them.)



I'm assuming you mean W rather than X. Q was a piece of cake once I broke down what it's doing, tracking the Q sticker. That made it intuitive and took it off the memorization list. You're basically moving Q to V like a V un-setup, doing a normal V swap, then moving V back to Q with a V setup. So, Q -> V -> swap -> Q


----------



## newtonbase (Feb 22, 2017)

phreaker said:


> Nice... Good luck. I've got some more drilling on M2 still to do... But once I do.. .edges, then onto a whole cube. I know success isn't far off at this point. It is more a matter of putting in the time, and making sure I get the results.
> 
> Those C,X, I, S and Q targets are a bit of a challenge. . (C and X aren't bad.. just need to remember them.)


As @pglewis says, DB is W in Speffz. I and S are definitely the trickiest but once you have learned them and got used to swapping them if they are the 2nd target in the pair then you can start learning a few tricks to either avoid them or reduce the move count (see @mark49152's Advanced M2 thread).


----------



## phreaker (Feb 22, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> As @pglewis says, DB is W in Speffz. I and S are definitely the trickiest but once you have learned them and got used to swapping them if they are the 2nd target in the pair then you can start learning a few tricks to either avoid them or reduce the move count (see @mark49152's Advanced M2 thread).


It is W. I even corrected it in the movelist I found.

I/S are the bear. Especially given how automatic they have to be.

Q I've pretty much got. C/X are more a matter of just keeping which is which straight. They are easy. Parity is no problem, but I need to sit down and learn I/S... I'm just not consistent with them.


----------



## newtonbase (Feb 22, 2017)

phreaker said:


> It is W. I even corrected it in the movelist I found.
> 
> I/S are the bear. Especially given how automatic they have to be.
> 
> Q I've pretty much got. C/X are more a matter of just keeping which is which straight. They are easy. Parity is no problem, but I need to sit down and learn I/S... I'm just not consistent with them.


I was worried that you had been learning the wrong letter for W! 
I wish I could tell you an easy way to learn I and S but you just have to drill them.


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## mark49152 (Feb 22, 2017)

pglewis said:


> Q was a piece of cake once I broke down what it's doing, tracking the Q sticker.


Here's another, faster way to solve Q. Solving A is easiest, right? And Q is the other sticker on piece A. So you could solve sticker A, then flip that edge along with the buffer. (U M')3 (U M) (U M')4



newtonbase said:


> I wish I could tell you an easy way to learn I and S but you just have to drill them.


They can be traced the same way you did for Q. If you understand comm notation, for sticker I, the alg breaks down as [D: [M', U R2 U']] M2. The first D moves the buffer to the V sticker. Then you are doing a comm that cycles V->I->A. Undo setup - you've actually cycled buffer->I->A. The final M2 undoes the A to leave the M2 slice off, since you're only solving one piece. The S alg is just the inverse.


----------



## JohnnyReggae (Feb 22, 2017)

I finally got around to testing some magnets in amongst waiting for coats of paint to dry with another mod I'm busy with.

Decided to go with the Weilong GTS for a couple of reasons, it's an easy cube to do the magnetic conversion on because the whole cube is made with caps, and I wanted to try find some love for it again after putting in down a while back after using it as a main for a while. 

Overall I am very impressed as to how it turned out. In fact I'm surprised by how well the magnets work, but also how little I feel them. I was expecting a much more pronounced magnetic bump after hearing most people talk about magnetic cubes. In fact I like it so much I am using it for OH now over the Valk (standard).

Seeing how well this worked I really want to do a GAN Air magnetic conversion as that is my current 2H main. Although I'm a bit loathe to use my current Air in case I stuff things up royally and I can no longer use it. Ordered another once this morning but it will be a while before I get it :-( The Valk I ordered a while back to magnetise has been in the country since the 25th Jan, and I still don't have it yet :-( Our postal service is just shocking.


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## Logiqx (Feb 22, 2017)

@Jason Green - oldie rankings updated


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## newtonbase (Feb 22, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> Here's another, faster way to solve Q. Solving A is easiest, right? And Q is the other sticker on piece A. So you could solve sticker A, then flip that edge along with the buffer. (U M')3 (U M) (U M')4
> 
> 
> They can be traced the same way you did for Q. If you understand comm notation, for sticker I, the alg breaks down as [D: [M', U R2 U']] M2. The first D moves the buffer to the V sticker. Then you are doing a comm that cycles V->I->A. Undo setup - you've actually cycled buffer->I->A. The final M2 undoes the A to leave the M2 slice off, since you're only solving one piece. The S alg is just the inverse.


That makes a lot of sense.


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## Jason Green (Feb 22, 2017)

Logiqx said:


> @Jason Green - oldie rankings updated


Thanks so much, I'll go take a look!


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## newtonbase (Feb 22, 2017)

0./4 MBLD in 30:32. I think that recall was good. There was a minor memo error or 2 and the rest were setup mistakes. All mistakes were on corners. Felt confident until I opened my eyes.


----------



## mark49152 (Feb 22, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> 0./4 MBLD in 30:32. I think that recall was good. There was a minor memo error or 2 and the rest were setup mistakes. All mistakes were on corners. Felt confident until I opened my eyes.


You'll get there! What was your memo/exec split?


----------



## newtonbase (Feb 22, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> You'll get there! What was your memo/exec split?


One day I'll remember to check. The only time I looked was after the second cube and I was at 8ish mins. Execution was slow as I made a couple of mistakes and had to go back. Pretty sure I should be under 25 mins but I was solving at work after very little sleep.


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## Logiqx (Feb 22, 2017)

I tried to do some timed 4x4 solves on the train home. Only 8 solves and 8 double parties in a row.... 1 in 65536 chance of that happening!

3 solves in a row ended with ZZ perm after the double parity. Weird!

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk


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## mark49152 (Feb 22, 2017)

Haven't seen @MarcelP in a while. Marcel, are you going to WC?


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## Logiqx (Feb 22, 2017)

I'm guessing he's not cubing much. Karate posts tend to show up on Facebook. 

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk


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## pglewis (Feb 22, 2017)

I was just about to post that I'm not sure which is going to strike first, a sub-30 Ao5 or knocking another second off the Ao12. Sooooo close. Wasn't long ago I was looking to get my first sub-30 single, a few days ago I landed a 29.x with a 4LLL. Still wildly inconsistent but I continue to have flashes of improving lookahead. 



Spoiler: Ao5



single
best: 27.25
worst: 40.19

mean of 3
current: 34.74 (σ = 5.42)
best: 29.84 (σ = 4.20)

avg of 5
current: 30.54 (σ = 3.70)
best: 30.54 (σ = 3.70)

Average: 30.54 (σ = 3.70)
Mean: 31.81

Time List:
1. 27.59 F R' U D' R2 U2 L' U B' U2 R2 U' B2 U R2 D2 R2 U2 D'
2. 27.25[PLL Skip] D2 B L' B R' B D F' R' L' B2 L2 U R2 U D B2 D R2 U2
3. 34.69 U B' L2 F' R D' R' U' D2 F2 D2 F B2 D2 B' U2 L2 B L
4. 29.35 L2 B2 U' B2 U2 B2 R2 B2 D R' U R' D U F R2 U' L2 F' R2
5. 40.19 F L2 U2 F' U2 B2 F' L2 B2 L2 D2 L D U' R' F L' F2 D' B2





mark49152 said:


> Haven't seen @MarcelP in a while. Marcel, are you going to WC?



Yeah, Marcel is the real hero of this thread. How dare he spend time on other hobbies! (I've only done normal 3x3 maintenance the past couple weeks due to going on a guitar binge)


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## h2f (Feb 22, 2017)

Logiqx said:


> I'm guessing he's not cubing much. Karate posts tend to show up on Facebook.



That's my thought too.


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## mark49152 (Feb 22, 2017)

Last seen Feb 10th, last posted Jan 19th. Didn't he say was going to learn 3BLD this year?

Also I wonder if @sneaklyfox still cubes? Her ability to juggle cubes and children was inspirational.


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## newtonbase (Feb 22, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> Last seen Feb 10th, last posted Jan 19th. Didn't he say was going to learn 3BLD this year?
> 
> Also I wonder if @sneaklyfox still cubes? Her ability to juggle cubes and children was inspirational.


OH practice while feeding a baby is pretty impressive.


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## Shaky Hands (Feb 22, 2017)

A bit of improvement for me after 50 timed Megaminx solves, from having a PB of 8:14.00 and an 11 minute average just 2 days ago.

PB single: 5:27.87
PB Mo3: 6:11.62
PB Ao5: 6:12.91
PB Ao12: 6:37.62

Still very inconsistent but my times are definitely trending in the right direction. I'm rather enjoying this puzzle.


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## Jason Green (Feb 23, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> Last seen Feb 10th, last posted Jan 19th. Didn't he say was going to learn 3BLD this year?
> 
> Also I wonder if @sneaklyfox still cubes? Her ability to juggle cubes and children was inspirational.


Well he liked my picture with Anthony Brooks on FB, so at least that's a good sign. Guess I'll share it here. 
(And I realize this shirt has the wrong color scheme, a friend made it for me)


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## JohnnyReggae (Feb 23, 2017)

Finished up the cube mod I've been busy with over the last few days. Again a cube that is commercially available but seeing as I had a spare Shengshou 4x4 lying around I decided to just do it anyway.

So here is the 4x4 AI Cube ...

    

It's an interesting bandage that seems it may be a fairly easy solve compared to say the 4x4 Burr. I don't know how to solve it yet, but will be giving it a go later today.

Despite the actual mod process being easier than the 5x5 Burr I did a short while ago I just struggled with the painting mostly. I had to paint and resand it a number of times. A few times just after applying a coat of paint something would happen, the cube would be blown onto the ground by a strong wind and land in some grass or dirt. Or I'd be spraying it and the wind would blow some debris onto it. So wait for it all to dry sand it down again, and respray ... Also the white cubes seem to take a lot more paint to cover them properly so I'v gone through a whole can of spray paint on 2 cubes, plus more.

I quite like the bandaged mods so I reckon I'll do a few more. I have a white 3x3 that I have a plan for already and I've been thinking about a cool 5x5 bandaged mod which I have been unable to find. So I'm not sure if one exists.


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## newtonbase (Feb 23, 2017)

2/4 in 26:12 (around 18 min memo @mark49152) . Very long pause to recall the last corner memo which I got right. Transposed 2 words on one cube in recall screwed up execution on the 3BLD cube somehow.


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## Logiqx (Feb 23, 2017)

7x7 question!

I use the Lucas OLL parity alg on 4x4 - Rw U2 x Rw U2 Rw U2 Rw' U2 Lw U2 Rw' U2 Rw U2 Rw' U2 Rw'

As a noob, I adapted it to 5x5 as follows - (Rw U2 x Rw U2 Rw U2 Rw' U2 Lw U2 Rw' U2 Rw U2 Rw' U2 Rw') (U2 Rw Lw')

... but I actually use the following modification - Rw U2 x Rw U2 Rw U2 *3Rw'* U2 Lw U2 Rw' U2 Rw U2 Rw' U2 Rw'

After trying to adapt the original 4x4 alg to flip a single slice on 7x7, I've come up with the following:

(r U2 x r U2 r U2 r' U2 l U2 r' U2 r U2 r' U2 r') (U2 r l')

My question is whether there is another variation akin to the second 5x5 alg (highlighted in bold), rather than bolting on 3 extra moves like a noob?

In actual fact, I'll be using my inner slice algorithm on 6x6 as well. I can ignore the OLL parity at the end of edge pairing, solve CN (choosing the cross colour to ensure the affected edge is LL) and solve the OLL parity using r or Rw when I know which one is applicable.


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## 1973486 (Feb 23, 2017)

With only double layer turns the alg can be written as Rw U2 x Rw U2 Rw U2 x' Lw' U2 Lw U2 Rw' U2 Rw U2 Rw' U2 Rw'


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## mark49152 (Feb 23, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> 2/4 in 26:12 (around 18 min memo @mark49152) . Very long pause to recall the last corner memo which I got right. Transposed 2 words on one cube in recall screwed up execution on the 3BLD cube somehow.


Getting there . I personally wouldn't do a 3BLD solve. Most faster multiblinders do, but that's because they're both under time pressure and trying to maximize the number of cubes, so need to take that risk. If not under time pressure, and you aren't, why not solve the 4th as safely as the rest?

In other news, I found some time to do averages with my new Valk, Air and GTS cubes, and my main is..... still the YueXiao. These are all nice cubes but all flawed, and I was a little disappointed because I let the hype build up my expectations that one of them would be my perfect cube. The GTS feels unstable, bumpy and dated, and I actually prefer the Weilong v2. The Valk feels great but I don't like the smaller size and my averages were worse because I fumbled more. The Air is the one I liked most, but it is a little catchy and that ruined a few solves. All are straight out of the box so with some adjustment they might improve. Any tips on resolving catching on a Gan Air would be welcome.


----------



## newtonbase (Feb 23, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> Getting there . I personally wouldn't do a 3BLD solve. Most faster multiblinders do, but that's because they're both under time pressure and trying to maximize the number of cubes, so need to take that risk. If not under time pressure, and you aren't, why not solve the 4th as safely as the rest?


That's a good point. Time isn't an issue and recall has been far better than expected. If only I could make fewer execution errors. 
I've been doing a bit of work on my letter pairs. My list is a lot more sparse and of lower quality than I'd realised.


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## Logiqx (Feb 23, 2017)

1973486 said:


> With only double layer turns the alg can be written as Rw U2 x Rw U2 Rw U2 x' Lw' U2 Lw U2 Rw' U2 Rw U2 Rw' U2 Rw'


Oops. I wrote the slicing alg incorrectly with my notation (maybe it should be 3r, etc). The case I'm referring to is shown below.

Is there an alternative to the alg I posted? It works ok but I can't help feeling there must be something that includes an extra slice plus an M move in the middle of the execution.






Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk


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## 1973486 (Feb 23, 2017)

Logiqx said:


> Oops. I wrote the slicing alg incorrectly with my notation (maybe it should be 3r, etc). The case I'm referring to is shown below.
> 
> Is there an alternative to the alg I posted? It works ok but I can't help feeling there must be something that includes an extra slice plus an M move in the middle of the execution.
> 
> ...



I think 3Rw U2 x 3Rw U2 3r U2 x' 3l' U2 3l U2 3r' U2 3r U2 3Rw' U2 3Rw' works.


----------



## Logiqx (Feb 23, 2017)

1973486 said:


> I think 3Rw U2 x 3Rw U2 3r U2 x' 3l' U2 3l U2 3r' U2 3r U2 3Rw' U2 3Rw' works.


Thanks. I'll give it a go!

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk


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## pglewis (Feb 23, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> . Any tips on resolving catching on a Gan Air would be welcome.



Ditto here. I'm not fast enough that the small catches seem to affect my times but it does make it aesthetically less fun to solve on than various others I have in the rotation. Setting tensions seems to be a hair-trigger on mine, the tension nuts seem a lot more course for making adjustments vs. any of my standard screw and spring cubes. It's a unique feeling cube and I know it has a higher potential than what I've managed to get with it based on the feel of someone else's at my first comp. 

Also: I think the round centers subtly throws off my recognition, though that's the sort of thing that goes away with practice.


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## h2f (Feb 23, 2017)

I got WuHua which I won by making youtube relation from Polish Championships. I think it's much better than Aoshi but it needs breaking in and a good setup. The one I got was very tight it needed loosening. Now it's too loose. I dont have much free time now but in April I'm gonna back to 6bld attempts.


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## Lid (Feb 23, 2017)

Finally sub16 Square-1, *15.287*!

Solves 6-10 gives an a5 of *13.673*, which also is PB.

Gonna start to learn CSP, and if I can do that, I should be easy doing sub15 I think...



Spoiler: Scambles & Times



Average of 12: 15.287
1. 15.184 (0, -4) / (-3, 3) / (-5, -2) / (-3, 0) / (3, -3) / (3, 0) / (0, -4) / (-3, 0) / (0, -2) / (-1, -3) / (-4, -1) / (6, -2)
2. 17.820[p] (-5, 0) / (5, 5) / (-3, 0) / (1, -2) / (0, -3) / (-4, -4) / (0, -5) / (-3, -3) / (2, -1) / (0, -2) / (0, -4) / (-4, 0)
3. 17.698[p] (-3, 2) / (0, -3) / (1, -5) / (-3, 0) / (6, 0) / (-4, -1) / (-2, 0) / (-3, 0) / (-3, 0) / (0, -3) / (0, -4) / (2, 0) / (-5, 0) / (0, -2)
4. 13.850 (0, 2) / (0, -3) / (3, 0) / (-2, -2) / (3, 0) / (0, -3) / (0, -3) / (5, 0) / (3, -3) / (6, 0) / (-3, 0) / (-3, -5) / (-4, 0)
5. 15.104 (-5, 0) / (-3, 0) / (3, 0) / (2, -1) / (3, 0) / (0, -3) / (0, -3) / (0, -2) / (-3, 0) / (-2, -3) / (-2, 0) / (0, -4) / (-2, -4)
6. 13.196 (-3, -4) / (4, -5) / (-3, 0) / (6, -3) / (-1, 0) / (0, -3) / (0, -3) / (-3, -4) / (2, 0) / (5, -4) / (2, 0) / (0, -2) / (-4, 0)
7. (23.929[p]) (1, 3) / (0, -3) / (-3, -3) / (-1, -4) / (-3, 0) / (1, -3) / (-3, -3) / (3, 0) / (4, 0) / (6, -2) / (-2, -1) / (5, 0)
8. 14.575 (3, -1) / (-2, -5) / (5, -4) / (-3, 0) / (-3, -5) / (3, 0) / (-3, 0) / (-3, 0) / (0, -3) / (-2, 0) / (-4, 0) / (4, -3) / (-2, 0)
9. (11.900) (0, 2) / (1, -2) / (0, -3) / (-4, -4) / (-3, 0) / (3, 0) / (-5, -3) / (-3, 0) / (3, -2) / 
10. 13.247 (0, 2) / (1, 1) / (5, -4) / (1, -5) / (-3, -4) / (0, -3) / (-1, 0) / (1, 0) / (-4, -4) / (-2, -5) / 
11. 18.535 (-3, -1) / (1, -2) / (0, -3) / (-4, -1) / (1, 0) / (0, -3) / (-1, 0) / (6, -4) / (-5, 0) / (-2, -4) / (0, -3) / (-1, -4) / 
12. 13.659 (4, 0) / (-4, 5) / (-3, 0) / (3, 0) / (6, -3) / (-5, -2) / (2, 0) / (3, 0) / (0, -4) / (1, -2) / (0, -4) / (4, 0) / (0, -2)


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## Logiqx (Feb 23, 2017)

1973486 said:


> I think 3Rw U2 x 3Rw U2 3r U2 x' 3l' U2 3l U2 3r' U2 3r U2 3Rw' U2 3Rw' works.



That's perfect, thanks.


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## newtonbase (Feb 23, 2017)

Got a 1:32 3BLD DNF by a flipped edge which included a move correction at the end and a missed timer. 
The corner memo was pure filth.


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## pglewis (Feb 23, 2017)

Mixed bag of frustration and glimpses of improvement today on 3x3. Multiple Ao12s started out well only to fall off the cliff somewhere by solves 6-8. I did land another 23.x, however, a few tenths off my PR that has stood since Dec. Both 23s were full solves... no x-cross or skips, and I think this last one was a 3LLL. The main difference from usual was smooth lookahead for me during F2L and fast, nearly automatic recog on OLL/PLL. That has been an outlier for a while-- I've hit a 25 and a handful of 26s otherwise-- but I'm slowly seeing my "pretty good solve" window move from 29 to 27-28.


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## mafergut (Feb 23, 2017)

@Logiqx, I got my 5x5 parity alg somewhere and it's the same you use, save for the fact I do the 3Rw right after the Lw and not before. It seems to work just the same so, instead of:
Rw U2 x Rw U2 Rw U2 *3Rw'* U2 Lw U2 Rw' U2 Rw U2 Rw' U2 Rw'
I do: Rw U2 x Rw U2 Rw U2 Rw' U2 Lw U2 *3Rw'* U2 Rw U2 Rw' U2 Rw'

I have adapted this same idea to 6x6 and 7x7 and I grab different number of layers depending on the case. So to solve an edge parity like xoox on 6x6 I do the same as above just changing 3Rw' by 4Rw'

Anyway I have the three different cases for 7x7 in my "big cube algs" notes. Just in case you want them. I have never used them because they are a bit different to the one I know and because I'm lazy, so the 1st case I do it like I said below (all Rw and Lw are changed to 3Rw and the 3Rw' to 4Rw'), the 3rd case I do it in similar way and the 2nd case I just do the 1st case and then the 3rd.

(XXOXX): 3R U2 3R x U2 3R U2 3L' x' U2 3L U2 3R' U2 3R U2 3R' U2 3R'
(OXOXO): 3R U2 3R x U2 3R 2R' U2 x' 3L' 2L U2 2L' 3L U2 3R' 2R U2 3R 2R' U2 3R' U2 3R'
(XOOOX): 2R U2 2R x U2 2R U2 2L' x' U2 2L U2 2R' U2 2R U2 2R' U2 2R'


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## Logiqx (Feb 23, 2017)

@mafergut

Until now, I've been doing the same as you and I simply adapted the 5x5 alg for 6x6 and 7x7.

It works fine for the xxoxx and xooox cases but it needs to be executed twice to solve oxoxo. 6x6 can also present an xoox case during edge pairing then xxxx during OLL when it was really an oxxo during edge pairing. Knowing an alg to fix inner parity avoids using the OLL parity alg twice in a 6x6 or 7x7 solve. On 6x6 you just need to wait until OLL to determine if you have xoox or oxxo. Colour neutrality is probably beneficial as you can force the xoox / oxxo edge to the last layer.

The algs from 1973486 are the ones you posted above, albeit using the standard sign notation.

They look slightly different to the alg we've been using for 4x4 and 5x5 due to the Lw move replacing an Rw' (preceded by an additional x') but they are really the same alg. Think of the real alg containing Lw' x' but executed as Rw'. The widest turn (including the M slice) is essentially a combination of an x' rotation and a turn. Once I realised this, I successfully adapted my 5x5 alg to become a pure parity alg for any slice(s) on any cube size. It was quite a fun exercise trying to understand the effects of subtle differences between the various algs.

The algs provided by 1973486 are ideal for speedsolving as they still use wedge turns at the start and end. I'm comfortably using the new algs now and I shouldn't need to execute the OLL parity alg twice... ever again.


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## pglewis (Feb 24, 2017)

pglewis said:


> I was just about to post that I'm not sure which is going to strike first, a sub-30 Ao5 or knocking another second off the Ao12.



Done, and done in the same session... and just like this day has gone I had to do it with a counting 52 lol. Five sub-30s out of a 14 solve session is very encouraging, along with another six under 32. There's also a chance I hit an untimed sub-20 single today, friendly F2L followed by a double Sune 1 look last layer. It was a good day. 



Spoiler: Times



Generated By csTimer on 2017-2-23
solves/total: 13/14

single
best: 28.07
worst: 52.07

mean of 3
current: 29.61 (σ = 1.05)
best: 29.54 (σ = 0.95)

avg of 5
current: 30.12 (σ = 0.37)
best: 29.84 (σ = 1.49)

avg of 12
current: 32.58 (σ = 7.07)
best: 32.58 (σ = 7.07)

Average: 32.36 (σ = 6.42)
Mean: 32.03

Time List:
1. 30.97 U2 L' R2 B2 L U2 B2 U2 R' F2 R' D R B' R' B F2 L' B L
2. 31.59 U' L2 R2 F2 R2 U L2 D2 U' R' D' L2 D2 U2 B L2 D' F' D'
3. 28.07 R2 U2 F2 U2 B2 L U2 L2 U2 R B D' U2 R D U' F2 U2 B' U
4. 34.70 U R D' B' R D' L B' D' L F2 B2 D F2 U' L2 F2 U2 F2
5. 29.94 R2 F' R B' L D L2 D' R2 B R2 B' U2 D2 B D2 B2 L2 U2 L'
6. 28.30 R F' R2 D2 B' L' U2 D' B R2 U' F2 B2 D R2 D F2 U F2 L2 R'
7. 31.27 B' L2 B' L' U2 R B' R' U' R2 B2 L' D2 L U2 D2 L2 B2 U2 B2
8. DNF(33.41)[Flubbed N Perm] U L2 D2 F2 D2 B2 L2 F2 U' R2 D' F R2 U L B2 U2 F' L' U2 F
9. 52.07 D2 F L' B D' R U D' R' B D B2 L2 U' R2 U' F2 U2 L2
10. 30.27 F2 D' F2 D2 B2 U2 L2 U B2 U2 R2 B' L2 R' F U L U2 L2 F
11. 30.40 F2 U2 R2 B2 D' F2 D2 R2 L' F L R' B' L2 F' U' B D' F'
12. 28.52 F U2 F' U2 L2 F U2 B2 R2 D2 U' F' D2 L' R' U L' R2 B L2
13. 29.70 R2 D2 U' R2 D2 F2 L2 F2 R2 L' U B R2 D R2 B2 R' B2 L
14. 30.61 F R U D2 R F' U D' B' U B2 D2 B2 L' B2 U2 L2 U2 R2


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## Jason Green (Feb 24, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> In other news, I found some time to do averages with my new Valk, Air and GTS cubes, and my main is..... still the YueXiao. These are all nice cubes but all flawed, and I was a little disappointed because I let the hype build up my expectations that one of them would be my perfect cube. The GTS feels unstable, bumpy and dated, and I actually prefer the Weilong v2. The Valk feels great but I don't like the smaller size and my averages were worse because I fumbled more. The Air is the one I liked most, but it is a little catchy and that ruined a few solves. All are straight out of the box so with some adjustment they might improve. Any tips on resolving catching on a Gan Air would be welcome.



I haven't tried all those but the Yuexiao remained my main after I got my GTS. Have you tried the M cubes yet? The Valk-M is still quite a bit better to me, although the size issue could still be a thing for you.


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## phreaker (Feb 24, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> The Air is the one I liked most, but it is a little catchy and that ruined a few solves. All are straight out of the box so with some adjustment they might improve. Any tips on resolving catching on a Gan Air would be welcome.



I have the same issue with the AIR. But the AIR UM is a great cube. The magnets stop the locking for me, and in fact, it is the cube I use for BLD, and I'm still learning... so my turning sucks.


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## One Wheel (Feb 24, 2017)

On 7x7 I use an adapted 5x5 parity to swap inner wings:
3r2 B2 U2 3l U2 3r' U2 3r U2 F2 3r F2 3l B2 3r2
Executed as: 3r2 B2 U2 3l U2 3r' U2 3r U2 x U2 3r U2 3l D2 3r2

I should probably learn one that doesn't use all slices, but I don't think that switch would shave a meaningful amount off my 7x7 times at the moment.


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## pglewis (Feb 24, 2017)

And another one, this time actually ducking my old PB. X-cross and 3LLL.


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## mark49152 (Feb 24, 2017)

Jason Green said:


> I haven't tried all those but the Yuexiao remained my main after I got my GTS. Have you tried the M cubes yet? The Valk-M is still quite a bit better to me, although the size issue could still be a thing for you.


I'm avoiding M cubes until they are the standard and all new 3x3 cubes are available magnetised at the $20 price point. I simply don't want to become dependent on $50 cubes or making my own. Plus, what about big cubes and MBLD? I know once I go over to the dark side there's no return .

Regarding BLD, I haven't tried an M cube but I'm wary of it because BLD depends on feel. I'm not sure I'd trust a cube that makes its own minor adjustments. On the one hand it might help avoid or recover from some fumbles, on the other hand it might make it harder to be sure whether or how far a layer moved. I'll try it once M cubes are mainstream.


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## JohnnyReggae (Feb 24, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> I'm avoiding M cubes until they are the standard and all new 3x3 cubes are available magnetised at the $20 price point. I simply don't want to become dependent on $50 cubes or making my own. Plus, what about big cubes and MBLD? I know once I go over to the dark side there's no return .
> 
> Regarding BLD, I haven't tried an M cube but I'm wary of it because BLD depends on feel. I'm not sure I'd trust a cube that makes its own minor adjustments. On the one hand it might help avoid or recover from some fumbles, on the other hand it might make it harder to be sure whether or how far a layer moved. I'll try it once M cubes are mainstream.


IMO the magnets align the layers less than you think they would. On my GTS the adjustment is so minor that the layers need to be within 1mm of each other from an alignment perspective to even begin to try pull the layers together. You can feel there is a force and when the magnets align you do feel the "bump", and even that I found not as pronounced as I thought it would be.


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## Logiqx (Feb 24, 2017)

For those interested in big cubes, I've written up the "Lucas Parity" variations for 4x4-7x7. The pure algs were the ones that I was failing to generate without a helping hand.

Note that the first Rw' turns in the speed algs are really an x' Lw'. This was tripping me up when trying to convert them to pure algs by myself. I only spotted the rotation thanks to the algs from @1973486, labelled "pure - speed" below.

Please let me know if you spot any typos. Hope they help!


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## newtonbase (Feb 24, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> I'm avoiding M cubes until they are the standard and all new 3x3 cubes are available magnetised at the $20 price point. I simply don't want to become dependent on $50 cubes or making my own. Plus, what about big cubes and MBLD? I know once I go over to the dark side there's no return .
> 
> Regarding BLD, I haven't tried an M cube but I'm wary of it because BLD depends on feel. I'm not sure I'd trust a cube that makes its own minor adjustments. On the one hand it might help avoid or recover from some fumbles, on the other hand it might make it harder to be sure whether or how far a layer moved. I'll try it once M cubes are mainstream.





JohnnyReggae said:


> IMO the magnets align the layers less than you think they would. On my GTS the adjustment is so minor that the layers need to be within 1mm of each other from an alignment perspective to even begin to try pull the layers together. You can feel there is a force and when the magnets align you do feel the "bump", and even that I found not as pronounced as I thought it would be.


I like the M cube feel for blind. It's easier to feel where you are up to and they are more controllable. As @JohnnyReggae says, the realignment is minimal.


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## phreaker (Feb 24, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> I'm avoiding M cubes until they are the standard and all new 3x3 cubes are available magnetised at the $20 price point. I simply don't want to become dependent on $50 cubes or making my own. Plus, what about big cubes and MBLD? I know once I go over to the dark side there's no return .
> 
> Regarding BLD, I haven't tried an M cube but I'm wary of it because BLD depends on feel. I'm not sure I'd trust a cube that makes its own minor adjustments. On the one hand it might help avoid or recover from some fumbles, on the other hand it might make it harder to be sure whether or how far a layer moved. I'll try it once M cubes are mainstream.



I'm learning BLD on a Gans AIR UM, and I have a Gans AIR to test on.

Overall, the UM is easier to work with, because when it offers up additional feel, I know what it did. My actual second preferred BLD cube is an AolongV2 in some ways, because it is a bit clicky. Anything that gives you feedback, and can corner cut well, is good for BLD from what I can tell.

The "Gans AIR" part is really important, because the AIR cuts SO effortlessly... The feel is very consistent, regardless of how bad my turning may be at times. I know I'll get better with practice. But when learning, I could see going to a much more clicky cube with more feedback... A Valk, maybe a Yuexiao, maybe an Aolong V2?!

But given that I have the Air UM.. it is exactly what I want. (I have all the above cubes around to play with.)


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## mark49152 (Feb 24, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> I like the M cube feel for blind. It's easier to feel where you are up to and they are more controllable. As @JohnnyReggae says, the realignment is minimal.


Maybe I will try one out at Peterborough.


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## mafergut (Feb 24, 2017)

@Logiqx Thanks for the big cube parity alg compilation! I will need quite some time to master them all but at least I can try 

Still fighting with the idea of buying a 2nd WuQue. I hate how hard it is to turn when dry but it's amazing how much of a difference a couple drops of Maru can do to it. Just one between two dedges to lube the "inner ball" pieces and another one between a corner and an edge and it feels like a different cube. If the "non-defective" batch feels like that without the need of Maru it would be worth buying it for sure.

Got my PB Ao50 down to 1:13.31 and it looks like there's still some room for improvement.


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## phreaker (Feb 24, 2017)

BLD Update:

Since I mentioned I was working on it. At this point I'm working 4 edge scrambles, to make sure my execution is solid. Then I expect I'll graduate up to 8 edge ones.. and onto full edges.

Part of my strategy towards BLD has been slowly building my skills and confidence so I can get there. If I can't get 4 edges right, there's no real point in 12, I can learn more, and more quickly on the shorter memo... and get my memo + techniques straight. At the rate I'm rolling along, I expect I'll be doing full edges soon. Then it will be combining it all together, and actually getting my first blind solve.

But the process doesn't feel easy... but I guess that's what makes it worthwhile.


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## Logiqx (Feb 24, 2017)

mafergut said:


> @Logiqx Thanks for the big cube parity alg compilation! I will need quite some time to master them all but at least I can try



You already know the default alg(s) so it is just a case of seeing learning the pure alg(s).

Once you've learned a pure alg on one cube, adapting it for other cubes / slices is a piece of cake.


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## mafergut (Feb 24, 2017)

Logiqx said:


> You already know the default alg(s) so it is just a case of seeing learning the pure alg(s).
> 
> Once you've learned a pure alg on one cube, adapting it for other cubes / slices is a piece of cake.


Sure, that's why I was saying "mastering", meaning, I don't spoil a solve while trying to perform the alg  I have tried the pure ones slowly and they are starting to sink in.


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## newtonbase (Feb 24, 2017)

Thunderclap magnetised in 34:47. PB! Need to work on the reassembling stage.


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## JohnnyReggae (Feb 25, 2017)

Completed a 2nd magnetic conversion. This time on my main the GAN Air. The plastic on the GAN must be a fair amount thinner than on the GTS as the exact same magnets have a much greater force. The "bump" is a lot more pronounced than on the GTS.

I think the 4mmx2mm N35's are too strong for the Air. I do prefer the feel of the GTS M compared to the Air M. I'm a bit annoyed with myself as I couldn't wait to do the conversion on my Air so I just went for it, and right now I'm not a fan. I haven't spend enough time with it yet to form a proper opinion so will give it a day or 2 and see how it goes.

I was considering magnetising my Valk however I think I'll do a little more research to see whether I go with the 4mmx2mm N35's or the 3mmx2mm N35's before I go ahead.


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## newtonbase (Feb 25, 2017)

JohnnyReggae said:


> Completed a 2nd magnetic conversion. This time on my main the GAN Air. The plastic on the GAN must be a fair amount thinner than on the GTS as the exact same magnets have a much greater force. The "bump" is a lot more pronounced than on the GTS.
> 
> I think the 4mmx2mm N35's are too strong for the Air. I do prefer the feel of the GTS M compared to the Air M. I'm a bit annoyed with myself as I couldn't wait to do the conversion on my Air so I just went for it, and right now I'm not a fan. I haven't spend enough time with it yet to form a proper opinion so will give it a day or 2 and see how it goes.
> 
> I was considering magnetising my Valk however I think I'll do a little more research to see whether I go with the 4mmx2mm N35's or the 3mmx2mm N35's before I go ahead.


Give it a bit more time. I've felt the same after a magnetisation but eventually really liked it.


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## mafergut (Feb 25, 2017)

I was shopping around in a mall today and look what I found! And very cheap too!


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## newtonbase (Feb 25, 2017)

mafergut said:


> I was shopping around in a mall today and look what I found! And very cheap too!
> 
> View attachment 7554


Good spot.


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## phreaker (Feb 25, 2017)

Working on memo system:

I decided to look at oral memory systems today. I think I have something original... I haven't seen anything like it yet. (It is quite different, it ends up as a non-speffz scheme.)

But I've got a long way, before I'd inflict it on others . More work needed. I suspect as I get better at BLD, I'll be able to use it. For now, I think a long term memory system is more likely to give some successes, and get me to where I can play with it successfully. More work to do on BLD.


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## pglewis (Feb 25, 2017)

A week from comp. I haven't done any 4x4 in weeks so I may decide to ditch that debut this time out. My back-ordered stickerless WuQue finally shipped though, and if it's significantly better than the first run I may end up doing a lot of 4x4 next week (my current one was an early pre-order, so definitely a first run). 

Still keeping my goals conservative, if I come away with a PR in either 2x2 or 3x3 it's a victory. Just gimme orange somewhere. Of course, I'd definitely like to see a sub 40 3x3 average; my times are on the move again and low 30s are the norm when I'm "on", but I still relapse into the 40s easily.


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## newtonbase (Feb 26, 2017)

pglewis said:


> A week from comp. I haven't done any 4x4 in weeks so I may decide to ditch that debut this time out. My back-ordered stickerless WuQue finally shipped though, and if it's significantly better than the first run I may end up doing a lot of 4x4 next week (my current one was an early pre-order, so definitely a first run).
> 
> Still keeping my goals conservative, if I come away with a PR in either 2x2 or 3x3 it's a victory. Just gimme orange somewhere. Of course, I'd definitely like to see a sub 40 3x3 average; my times are on the move again and low 30s are the norm when I'm "on", but I still relapse into the 40s easily.


Times don't matter on your first attempt. You are setting yourself up for an easy PB at the next comp. Go for it.


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## pglewis (Feb 26, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> Times don't matter on your first attempt. You are setting yourself up for an easy PB at the next comp. Go for it.



This'll be my third, though. First was Sept and I just had one the beginning of Jan. It's a little sooner than I'd planned on getting back but it was only an hour drive, so hard to pass up. I'm still not pressuring myself too much, my 3x3 last time out was 44/48 so should not be hard to PR (and even so, my 2x2 should be even easier to orange). But I'm hoping my comp times start to creep closer to my home times.


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## JohnnyReggae (Feb 26, 2017)

mafergut said:


> I was shopping around in a mall today and look what I found! And very cheap too!
> 
> View attachment 7554


The Ghost cube is an awesome solve. The first time I tried I sat for a few days trying to wrap my head around things and I kept getting it wrong, until I realiased that you need to solve each layer in isolation. It still gets me and I have to redo things that I mess up.


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## mark49152 (Feb 26, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> I like the M cube feel for blind. It's easier to feel where you are up to and they are more controllable. As @JohnnyReggae says, the realignment is minimal.


Watch the cube carefully in this video: 




It makes me quite optimistic about magnets for BLD.


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## newtonbase (Feb 27, 2017)

MBLD 2/4 in 22:45. Completely forgot to solve corners on 1st cube. It was a very easy memo and later on it occurred to me that I hadn't done it but I decided I clearly wouldn't do something that dumb. The other was an R2 out before corners. Getting faster but inventing new ways to mess it up.


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## mark49152 (Feb 27, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> Completely forgot to solve corners on 1st cube.


Yeah I had one like that a couple of days ago. Completely forgot to execute edges on one cube. Never done that before!


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## newtonbase (Feb 27, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> Yeah I had one like that a couple of days ago. Completely forgot to execute edges on one cube. Never done that before!


It's a bizarre mistake to make.
I also skipped a room and didn't realise until halfway through the edges but I managed to fix it.


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## JanW (Feb 27, 2017)

phreaker said:


> BLD Update:
> 
> Since I mentioned I was working on it. At this point I'm working 4 edge scrambles, to make sure my execution is solid. Then I expect I'll graduate up to 8 edge ones.. and onto full edges.
> 
> Part of my strategy towards BLD has been slowly building my skills and confidence so I can get there. If I can't get 4 edges right, there's no real point in 12, I can learn more, and more quickly on the shorter memo... and get my memo + techniques straight. At the rate I'm rolling along, I expect I'll be doing full edges soon. Then it will be combining it all together, and actually getting my first blind solve.


You can try my BldTrainer (see signature) to practice execution of edges/corners. While it was designed to practice 3-cycles, it can of course also be used with OP or other single target techniques. It can give you any even number of targets from 2-16.


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## mafergut (Feb 27, 2017)

Now that I'm clearly losing my 3x3 mojo in exchange for some big cube improvement and in the middle of a mediocre full CN session of around 20.5 sec average I get this Ao5 (3rd best ever) out of nowhere:

avg of 5: 15.87
(18.46), 16.09, 15.53, 15.96, (14.94)

Only the 18.xx is non-white/yellow cross, though. PLL skip on the 15.53, the rest all full step.


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## Logiqx (Feb 27, 2017)

Great evening in London. After work beers and some solves with @Selkie. Factory solves were fun... Cross, swap cubes, pair swap cubes, pair swap cubes, etc. We soon discovered that solving on different cross colours was a bad idea! Switched to green or blue, depending on what looked best to me. A couple of 23 singles and an average of 28. Harder than you'd think after 3 or 4 beers!

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## Logiqx (Feb 28, 2017)

mafergut said:


> Now that I'm clearly losing my 3x3 mojo in exchange for some big cube improvement and in the middle of a mediocre full CN session of around 20.5 sec average I get this Ao5 (3rd best ever) out of nowhere:
> 
> avg of 5: 15.87
> (18.46), 16.09, 15.53, 15.96, (14.94)
> ...


Nice one!

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## JohnnyReggae (Feb 28, 2017)

My big QiYi order finally arrived, took over 2 months in the end but at least it arrived. In the package were 4 cubes:

Valk 3
WuQue
WuShuang
WuHua

 

I haven't done much with them yet as I haven't had time. I've done a couple solves with the WuQue, and only one on the WuShuang. The WuHua hasn't done more than a checkerboard pattern. I'm leaving the Valk 3 wrapped up for now, no real reason except that I don't need it right now as I am going to magnetise my old one first.

Initial thoughts are that they are all quite smooth to turn. The WuHua turns a lot easier than my Aoshi. There is a fair amount of catching on the WuQue but I think the tensions are too tight. Will see how things go over the next few days.


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## Tyler Candella (Feb 28, 2017)

MarcelP said:


> Hi Guys,
> 
> My name is Marcel, 42 years old. I have learned to solve the cube at age 11 - 12 or so. I had not touched a cube a maybe 15 - 20 years. A few weeks ago I solved a cube and found it very nice to see that I still knew how to do that. When I looked at youtube I found amazing stuff from you speedsolvers. I thought it was the most amazing thing I have ever seen. I solved the cube in a layer by layer which could take up to 10 minutes.
> 
> ...


Practice makes perfect Marcel!! Hard work pays off!!! Keep it up friend!!!

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## pipkiksass (Feb 28, 2017)

Tyler Candella said:


> Practice makes perfect Marcel!! Hard work pays off!!! Keep it up friend!!!
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk



Tyler, your u do know that post is from 2012?!

Just got 13.85 while being irradiated. UWR??


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Tyler Candella (Feb 28, 2017)

pipkiksass said:


> Tyler, your u do know that post is from 2012?!
> 
> Just got 13.85 while being irradiated. UWR??
> 
> ...


I did not! First time on the mobile app. Still figuring it out [emoji35] F' U' F U

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## JohnnyReggae (Feb 28, 2017)

It's been a while since I've broken any PB's with 3x3, but today I managed a new mo3 and ao5 ... First time I have achieved 3 sub-15's in a row 

Generated By csTimer on 2017-2-28
mean of 3: 12.87

Time List:
1. 13.13 B' L2 B D2 B' F2 D2 L2 D2 F' U L D B2 F D' L' U B' D
2. 13.81 D2 L' U2 L2 B2 R' F2 U2 L' B2 R' U' F L2 F U2 B L2 U2
3. 11.65 R2 B2 F2 U2 L2 R2 B2 U L F' R' D' U2 F' D2 R' F' L2
--------------------------------------------

Generated By csTimer on 2017-2-28
avg of 5: 14.12

Time List:
1. 15.40 D2 L' B2 F2 U2 L2 R' U2 F2 L D' F' R D2 R2 F D R' F' L
2. (16.35) F' B2 R' D2 L R2 B2 R U2 L2 B D2 L F' U B2 U R' F2
3. 13.13 B' L2 B D2 B' F2 D2 L2 D2 F' U L D B2 F D' L' U B' D
4. 13.81 D2 L' U2 L2 B2 R' F2 U2 L' B2 R' U' F L2 F U2 B L2 U2
5. (11.65) R2 B2 F2 U2 L2 R2 B2 U L F' R' D' U2 F' D2 R' F' L2


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## h2f (Feb 28, 2017)

JohnnyReggae said:


> It's been a while since I've broken any PB's with 3x3, but today I managed a new mo3 and ao5 ... First time I have achieved 3 sub-15's in a row



Wow! Awsome.


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## mafergut (Feb 28, 2017)

New 3x3 work plan:
- Decided to forget about 3x3 times and just solve for fun on any cross color. Try to solve slow and concentrate on lookahead and getting used to the color scheme on non-white/yellow cross.
- Watching some F2L videos and trying to find new ways to deal with some of my worst F2L cases.
- Review the few OLLs I am starting to forget and maybe change some of them for better algs.
- Trying to drill also the new E-perm I was suggested here some days ago. I timed my old one and the new one and even on 3x3 I'm a bit faster with this, so definitely changing. It's also much more OH friendly so that's a bonus.

All this without losing my improvement rate on 4x4 to 7x7  At least that's the idea.


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## newtonbase (Mar 1, 2017)

Awful MBLD attempt. Decided to try 5 as I has an extra cube on me and I felt good. During memo one cube 5 I realised it had the same scramble as cube 4 so went straight into execution. 
1st cube was memo error on last corner leaving it twisted. 2nd cube complete mess including forgotten corner memo. 3rd cube execution error on corners. 4th cube was some sort of execution error. Over 30 mins too. Will try again tomorrow.


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## muchacho (Mar 1, 2017)

Proof that Marcel can do the cube 






I can't imagine how much I would forget if not cubing for months, 3 or 4 days is the most I've been without cubing.


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## Jason Green (Mar 1, 2017)

Tyler Candella said:


> I did not! First time on the mobile app. Still figuring it out [emoji35] F' U' F U
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk


Yes Marcel is sub 20 now. 

I hate 4x4 pops, this one took probably 10 minutes to get back together. Getting the little pieces to sit in the two centers while I put in the internal edge (I don't even know what to call the pieces) drives me nuts! I need to search for some good videos for tricks on it, anyone know any?


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## pipkiksass (Mar 1, 2017)

Jason Green said:


> Yes Marcel is sub 20 now.
> 
> I hate 4x4 pops, this one took probably 10 minutes to get back together. Getting the little pieces to sit in the two centers while I put in the internal edge (I don't even know what to call the pieces) drives me nuts! I need to search for some good videos for tricks on it, anyone know any?



I watched a video YEARS ago where someone advised using thicker lube to stick two small internals (the crescent shaped pieces) to a large internal (the fatter internal pieces), which normally works for me. With my WuQue I tend to find that all but the last internal trio go in OK. With the last set, I actually slot the small internal pieces into the slot in the centres when it pops, then jam the large internal piece in. Having loose tensions helps for this!!!

That said, I've got away with only minor pops on my WuQue so far, I tend to hit the brakes pretty quick when I feel it going, and can normally get away with just a small internal or two flying out!!!


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## Selkie (Mar 1, 2017)

Sorry I have not been active much recently. New job and busy times. Will try and catch up on missed posts this week.



Logiqx said:


> Great evening in London. After work beers and some solves with @Selkie. Factory solves were fun... Cross, swap cubes, pair swap cubes, pair swap cubes, etc. We soon discovered that solving on different cross colours was a bad idea! Switched to green or blue, depending on what looked best to me. A couple of 23 singles and an average of 28. Harder than you'd think after 3 or 4 beers!



 

Was great seeing you Mike and nice to spend a few hours with beers and solves. We got quite a few comments in the pub we were solving in. After work beer and solves night seems to be catching on with our next night in 3 weeks time with at least 6 people coming including @Logiqx Mike, @bubbagrub Ben, myself and a few other younger (legal beer age) UK cubers of note!

Meanwhile working in Bristol on Friday with an opportunity of lunch and solves with @Shaky Hands Andy. Looking forward to it mate.


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## mark49152 (Mar 1, 2017)

@Selkie, sounds like it's time for me to move down south!


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## Jason Green (Mar 1, 2017)

pipkiksass said:


> With the last set, I actually slot the small internal pieces into the slot in the centres when it pops, then jam the large internal piece in. Having loose tensions helps for this!!!


That's basically what I do. I'm getting better at it, my fat fingers are no help. I think I've only had two, maybe three, pops on the WuQue. This was the worst one. It's almost always during OLL parity because I'm desperately trying to get faster at it (before the WuQue too).


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## newtonbase (Mar 1, 2017)

Selkie said:


> After work beer and solves night seems to be catching on with our next night in 3 weeks time with at least 6 people coming including @Logiqx Mike, @bubbagrub Ben, myself and a few other younger (legal beer age) UK cubers of note!


Let me know where and when and I'll see if I can get a pass from the Mrs.


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## Selkie (Mar 1, 2017)

I'll add you to the chat group on FB @newtonbase


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## newtonbase (Mar 1, 2017)

Selkie said:


> I'll add you to the chat group on FB @newtonbase


Thanks.
I now have 4 Thunderclap Ms. Last chance this week to get a 4/4 will be tomorrow lunchtime. Fingers crossed.


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## pipkiksass (Mar 2, 2017)

Jason Green said:


> That's basically what I do. I'm getting better at it, my fat fingers are no help. I think I've only had two, maybe three, pops on the WuQue. This was the worst one. It's almost always during OLL parity because I'm desperately trying to get faster at it (before the WuQue too).



I think all of my 4x4 pops EVER have been during OLL parity!! Probably the combination of fast inner layer turns and U2s?


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## newtonbase (Mar 2, 2017)

2/4 in 24:01. 2 memo errors ***. Missed a cycle on each. Recall and execution were good. I'll look at it as progress but the errors are ridiculous.


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## mafergut (Mar 2, 2017)

Same here with 4x4 pops happening mostly during OLL parity.

Sent from my Nexus 4 with Tapatalk


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## Shaky Hands (Mar 2, 2017)

L F2 D' F B2 U2 F' R B2 R2 U R2 D2 R2 L2 D' F2 U2 R = a friendly cross. Shame I could only manage a 17.79 out of it.


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## mafergut (Mar 2, 2017)

Shaky Hands said:


> L F2 D' F B2 U2 F' R B2 R2 U R2 D2 R2 L2 D' F2 U2 R = a friendly cross. Shame I could only manage a 17.79 out of it.



Wow! I got a 12.94 at first try. That would be my all time 2nd best full step single but, of course it doesn't count as the scramble came from you. Very nice 2-move cross with easy-to-spot 1st pair 

EDIT: What?!? You gave me part of your luck.

Four solves after doing your scramble, I got this crazy x-cross on yellow (in fact it can be an xx-cross) and finished with an AUFless PLL skip to get my best single since August last year:

1. 12.65 U2 F2 U2 L2 R2 B' R2 F' U2 F' U2 L U' L R' F' L2 D' F2 D

What's funny and sad at the same time is that:
a) I was just solving mindlessly so the time could have been so much better in the middle of a real time-attack session.
b) I am sure this is my 1st counting 12 on an Ao5  but the 3 times in the middle of the two 12s are rubbish.


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## JanW (Mar 2, 2017)

Shaky Hands said:


> L F2 D' F B2 U2 F' R B2 R2 U R2 D2 R2 L2 D' F2 U2 R = a friendly cross. Shame I could only manage a 17.79 out of it.


Vey nice scramble! Got a 16.85 on the stackmat, most likely the fastest time I've ever stackmatted.

Haven't posted much lately, but still lurking this thread. I haven't solved that much lately either, mostly untimed solves, hoping to eventually get used to and stop mixing up the OLLs. Now I feel like I'm finally getting there. It still happens every now and then that I have a complete blackout and can't remember some OLL, but this is increasingly rare. I didn't learn the dot OLLs yet, but I'll get there. Eventually...

Did an Ao100 today, first one in quite a while. Ended up at 23.32, which is not too bad at all (Edit: oh, wow, when I posted this I noticed from my signature that it was actually a new pb by 0.1 seconds. ). At one point I had five counting sub-20s in an Ao12, which is my record for sure. Unfortunately that Ao12 also included some counting 28s, so no new pb there.


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## phreaker (Mar 3, 2017)

Well, finally a sub 50 single, on a legit scramble. 49.762. One handed of course. (I really don't solve 2H except for BLD, and when I want to rest my left hand.)

My times are coming down steadily. But I've still got a massive deviation, I need to work on my F2L more, and look ahead from EOLine -> ZZF2L. My OCLL -> PLL execution is geting much smoother. Needs more practice... but it is coming along nicely. My only other sub 50 time was on a lol scramble I found on reddit. This wasn't a lol scramble.. i felt I was actually seeing things and executing smoothly.

Cube used: Valk M, still with blu-tack and those funky magnets. I like it for OH. 2H, I'm still more an Gans AIR UM guy. But OH. I really like that Valk M.


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## JohnnyReggae (Mar 3, 2017)

Shaky Hands said:


> L F2 D' F B2 U2 F' R B2 R2 U R2 D2 R2 L2 D' F2 U2 R = a friendly cross. Shame I could only manage a 17.79 out of it.


Managed a 14.22. Could possibly have been quicker, but for the very first solve of the day not bad at all.


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## JanW (Mar 3, 2017)

Finally learning OLL is starting to pay off! Improved Ao100 pb by >1 second today (22.28). Also shaved a few hundreds off my Ao12 pb (20.79). Interestingly the new Ao100 is only .16 seconds from my old Ao50 pb, yet I did not improve on that at any stage. So overall it was a very even Ao100.

I'm still far from touching my old pb single, but got my fastest single so far this year:

Generated By csTimer on 2017-3-3
single: 15.11

Time List:
1. 15.11 R D' R2 B2 L2 D2 F2 U' B2 F2 D R2 B U' B2 F2 L U2 F' D R2

x2 y' // inspection
R' U R' F y D L D' // cross
L' U L2 U L' // F2L 1
y R U' R' U' y L U' L' // F2L 2
R' U2 R U L' U' L // F2L 3
U' R2 U2 R U R' U R2 // F2L 4 (OLL skip)
U A-perm U // PLL

45 moves, 2.98 tps


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## pipkiksass (Mar 3, 2017)

Just doing some timed solves sitting in my parents' living room while my car is serviced nearby, and noticed I was getting dangerously close to PB Ao12, rolling Ao5 stayed under 16 for quite a while, then managed a 15.969 Ao12 (wahey), PB by .1 and first sub-16. The best thing is the worst time was 18.313, best was 15.185, so no amazing flukey singles, just super consistent - 8 15s, 2 16s, a 17 and an 18.

Just a shame I'm on my phone, not CSTimer, as I'm sure I'm on a PB Ao50, and could probably roll it to an Ao100...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## phreaker (Mar 3, 2017)

After writing my OH note above, my OH PB (and overall PB) dropped to 46.827. Clearly, something is starting to click finally.


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## pglewis (Mar 3, 2017)

I'm not going to be able to make the comp this weekend after all but no biggie; I just had one back in Jan and all indications are I'll be a little faster yet by the next one I can attend. Occasional 26s on 3x3 are a thing now.


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## newtonbase (Mar 4, 2017)

Good luck to everyone competing today. Do I need to follow anything other than the Peterborough Open?


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## JohnnyReggae (Mar 4, 2017)

Following on the arrival of the QiYi package I got the other day, I've had a little time to spend with the cubes ... well all except the 5x5.

The 6x6 Wuhua is awesome, certainly better than my Aoshi. It is still hard to turn but definitely better than the Aoshi. Got a PB with the 2nd solve on it  At the moment I have the tensions as loose as I dare take them, any more and there will probably be an almighty pop. It still feels tight and my fingers do get a workout with it. I think some more solves and some lube would help.

The WuQue is an amazing 4x4. Turns so nicely and is very controllable. Although it is 62mm it doesn't feel big in the hands like my MeiYu which is the same size. I was going to say that it is my new main 4x4 .... that is until I put magnets into my Yuxin Blue. With magnets the Blue is simply amazing. The magnets provide some much needed stability to a fast cube. I think they have had as big an impact on the cube as putting Thunderclap springs into it. It is a little slower now due to the magnetic forces at play. I'm now considering putting magnets into the WuQue.


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## pipkiksass (Mar 4, 2017)

JohnnyReggae said:


> Following on the arrival of the QiYi package I got the other day, I've had a little time to spend with the cubes ... well all except the 5x5.
> 
> The 6x6 Wuhua is awesome, certainly better than my Aoshi. It is still hard to turn but definitely better than the Aoshi. Got a PB with the 2nd solve on it  At the moment I have the tensions as loose as I dare take them, any more and there will probably be an almighty pop. It still feels tight and my fingers do get a workout with it. I think some more solves and some lube would help.
> 
> The WuQue is an amazing 4x4. Turns so nicely and is very controllable. Although it is 62mm it doesn't feel big in the hands like my MeiYu which is the same size. I was going to say that it is my new main 4x4 .... that is until I put magnets into my Yuxin Blue. With magnets the Blue is simply amazing. The magnets provide some much needed stability to a fast cube. I think they have had as big an impact on the cube as putting Thunderclap springs into it. It is a little slower now due to the magnetic forces at play. I'm now considering putting magnets into the WuQue.



I have a spare Yuxin Blue now, what magnets did you use??


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## JohnnyReggae (Mar 4, 2017)

pipkiksass said:


> I have a spare Yuxin Blue now, what magnets did you use??
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


For the corners I used N35 4mmx2mm and for the edges I used N35 3mmx2mm. Also for the corners I only put 3 magnets into the corners as apposed to 6 which some people are doing. I don't think you need all 6 as there will be a magnet connected to another magnet with just 3 in the corners. I took the advice from Shaun at @SpeedCubeReview who did a video recently on magnetising a 4x4.

I was a little apprehensive after my last 2 magnetic conversions which didn't turn out well due to the thickness of plastic and type of magnets used, but it turned out great in the end. Started it last night, finished up all the gluing and reassembled this morning. Spent the morning with the kids doing their karate classes doing a bunch of solves on it and I am really impressed with how it is now.


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## pipkiksass (Mar 4, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> Good luck to everyone competing today. Do I need to follow anything other than the Peterborough Open?



@mark49152 - 10/12 58:35.00 MBLD and 1:10.46 4x4 average. I have a feeling he'll be happier with the MBLD, but good job Mark.


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## One Wheel (Mar 4, 2017)

JohnnyReggae said:


> For the corners I used N35 4mmx2mm and for the edges I used N35 3mmx2mm. Also for the corners I only put 3 magnets into the corners as apposed to 6 which some people are doing. I don't think you need all 6 as there will be a magnet connected to another magnet with just 3 in the corners.


 So do the wings have 3 magnets in them? 2 3x2 along the inner slice and 1 4x2 to attach to the corner? I'm planning on getting some smaller magnets so I can do my Aoshi, and probably using the leftover 4x2 n35s to do a yulong that seems like it would be fantastic with magnets.


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## JohnnyReggae (Mar 4, 2017)

One Wheel said:


> So do the wings have 3 magnets in them? 2 3x2 along the inner slice and 1 4x2 to attach to the corner? I'm planning on getting some smaller magnets so I can do my Aoshi, and probably using the leftover 4x2 n35s to do a yulong that seems like it would be fantastic with magnets.


Each edge piece has 4 magnets in with a North/South pointing out on each half of an edge, all of them 3x2's. The corners only 3 like in a 3x3 and 4mmx2mm there.


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## newtonbase (Mar 4, 2017)

pipkiksass said:


> @mark49152 - 10/12 58:35.00 MBLD and 1:10.46 4x4 average. I have a feeling he'll be happier with the MBLD, but good job Mark.


@Shakyhands got 2/4 in only 21:56 on his 1st MBLD attempt too. 


JohnnyReggae said:


> Each edge piece has 4 magnets in with a North/South pointing out on each half of an edge, all of them 3x2's. The corners only 3 like in a 3x3 and 4mmx2mm there.


That makes sense. No need for the extras in the corners.


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## One Wheel (Mar 4, 2017)

JohnnyReggae said:


> Each edge piece has 4 magnets in with a North/South pointing out on each half of an edge, all of them 3x2's. The corners only 3 like in a 3x3 and 4mmx2mm there.


So the second magnet in the outside of each edge piece is set to repel the magnets in the corners? I was planning on doubling only along the inner slice, but do you think it's worth doubling them next to the corners?


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## mark49152 (Mar 4, 2017)

pipkiksass said:


> @mark49152 - 10/12 58:35.00 MBLD and 1:10.46 4x4 average. I have a feeling he'll be happier with the MBLD, but good job Mark.


Thanks @pipkiksass. Congrats to @Shaky Hands and @bubbagrub too. Ben got 4/5 but was DNFed because the score card was written wrong.

I only went for MBLD and didn't intend to compete in 4x4, but arrived just in time so why not. Those were my first solves for a few days so 1:10 is not bad.

The MBLD was OK - two silly execution errors, but the memo and timekeeping was good, and overall not a bad result after 2.5 hours sleep and a 3.5 hour drive. Video to follow.

Nice to catch up briefly with my fellow oldies, and good luck everyone for the rest of the weekend!


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## JohnnyReggae (Mar 4, 2017)

One Wheel said:


> So the second magnet in the outside of each edge piece is set to repel the magnets in the corners? I was planning on doubling only along the inner slice, but do you think it's worth doubling them next to the corners?


No, the magnets on the outer edge of each half edge piece maintains the same polarity moving from left to right, or right to left, which ever way you start your polarity. Obviously when you flip 1 half edge piece over to join with it's other piece it will now have a North/South pointing out on each side. That will take care of any polarity issues when the edge pieces get flipped around.


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## newtonbase (Mar 4, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> Ben got 4/5 but was DNFed because the score card was written wrong.


That's harsh. At least it didn't cost him a PB.


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## bubbagrub (Mar 4, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> That's harsh. At least it didn't cost him a PB.


Right -- it's disappointing, but it didn't cost me any of the 3 things that might have mattered -- PB, Podium, WC qualification. If it had been 5/5, it would have cost me the first and last of those three, and then I'd have been really unhappy...


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## newtonbase (Mar 4, 2017)

bubbagrub said:


> Right -- it's disappointing, but it didn't cost me any of the 3 things that might have mattered -- PB, Podium, WC qualification. If it had been 5/5, it would have cost me the first and last of those three, and then I'd have been really unhappy...


How did it happen?


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## bubbagrub (Mar 4, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> How did it happen?



Ah... well... My judge (who is also my son) wrote the time on the score-card, but not the result (4/5). I then failed to notice this, and initialed it. That is therefore, officially, a DNF...


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## newtonbase (Mar 4, 2017)

bubbagrub said:


> Ah... well... My judge (who is also my son) wrote the time on the score-card, but not the result (4/5). I then failed to notice this, and initialed it. That is therefore, officially, a DNF...


That's a shame. I hope he doesn't feel too bad about it.


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## bubbagrub (Mar 4, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> That's a shame. I hope he doesn't feel too bad about it.


Nope -- he's forgotten all about it...


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## newtonbase (Mar 4, 2017)

bubbagrub said:


> Nope -- he's forgotten all about it...


Ha ha. He does need to feel a bit of pain though! Pocket money maybe?


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## pglewis (Mar 4, 2017)

No comp for me but times are still moving. Knocked another second off Mo3, Ao5, and Ao12 last night. If I'm warmed up and "on", 32s are disappointing now.


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## pglewis (Mar 4, 2017)

pglewis said:


> No comp for me...



However, Lucas landed a 5.32 single in the first round at the comp I couldn't make


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## mafergut (Mar 4, 2017)

pglewis said:


> However, Lucas landed a 5.32 single in the first round at the comp I couldn't make


Oh my! That would have been nice to see 

By the way, I have been trying to solve 4x4 Full CN today (just 4-5 solves) and it's so hard! My best time was a 1:36 (with OLL parity, though). Not that I think full CN is necessary to improve at 4x4 but I thought it would be fun. At least I'm beginning to know the color scheme inside out


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## pglewis (Mar 4, 2017)

Yet another full-step 23, that'd be all 3x3 PBs busted since yesterday, now. Dunno when that first sub 20 single is coming but the potential is there for it to show up at any time.


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## pglewis (Mar 4, 2017)

mafergut said:


> Oh my! That would have been nice to see



Almost as nice as Drew's 4.76 in the final


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## kbrune (Mar 5, 2017)

Hey all! Sad that I haven't been on here very much lately. But I have a pretty valid reason. My second child (first son) was born one week ago and it's been very busy! 

I was planning to post some pics and updates before and after the comp I attended this weekend in Halifax. Kept forgetting to do so! And have been pretty exhausted from newborn and comp. Special thanks to my wife for being ok with me leaving for the weekend

Feel free to check out cube comps for my results. I basically had the most phenomenal cubing day of my career. 16 PBs. Along with pushing my 3x3 single and averages down so low, I fear I'll never beat them again lol

Anyway. Hope everyone is well. Hope the PBs are flowing from all of you. And I'll be back on this thread as soon as I get more sleep! Cheers!


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## newtonbase (Mar 5, 2017)

kbrune said:


> Hey all! Sad that I haven't been on here very much lately. But I have a pretty valid reason. My second child (first son) was born one week ago and it's been very busy!
> 
> I was planning to post some pics and updates before and after the comp I attended this weekend in Halifax. Kept forgetting to do so! And have been pretty exhausted from newborn and comp. Special thanks to my wife for being ok with me leaving for the weekend
> 
> ...


Congratulations on the birth of your son and well done on the PBs. I expect you haven't had a great deal of practice.


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## mafergut (Mar 5, 2017)

Yeah, congratulations to you and your wife. She must be very understanding to let you go to that comp. [emoji16]

Enviado desde mi XT1635-02 mediante Tapatalk


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## newtonbase (Mar 5, 2017)

@shakyhands got his 3BLD! Well done.


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## h2f (Mar 5, 2017)

kbrune said:


> And have been pretty exhausted from newborn and comp.
> 
> 16 PBs.



Congrats!  

@mark49152 - awsome result in mbld!


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## mark49152 (Mar 5, 2017)

h2f said:


> @mark49152 - awsome result in mbld!


Thanks Grzegorz, and congrats Andy on the 3BLD! Almost a clean sweep of PBs there.


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## mafergut (Mar 5, 2017)

Congratulations to everybody on your comp PBs and at-home PBs (@pglewis). Nice weekend for BLD or so it seems! 

I will have to make do with some at-home PBs myself 
Broke all my 5x5 PBs (single, Ao5, Ao12, Ao50 & Ao100)



Fun fact. PB Ao5 has probably the lowest standard deviation I'll ever get on 5x5. The three counting solves were 2:34.xx: 2:34.26, 2:34.21, (2:40.74), 2:34.87, (2:18.34)


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## pglewis (Mar 5, 2017)

kbrune said:


> I basically had the most phenomenal cubing day of my career. 16 PBs. Along with pushing my 3x3 single and averages down so low, I fear I'll never beat them again lol



Man, you rocked it! Really glad that 19 was good enough for the last 3x3 round 'cause you went loco in the finals .

[EDIT]: Also just saw there was a write-up on your comp: http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/rubiks-cube-canadiancubing-atlantic-open-halifax-1.4010256


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## pglewis (Mar 5, 2017)

Congrats on all the successes at the Peterborough comp. Mark was so close to the trophy yet again, congrats on the podium. @bubbagrub gets robbed on the mbld but comes away with 9 PBs; @Logiqx crushing the big cube PBs and for some reason getting fast at Skewb. And nice to see Andy land that 3BLD among 10 PBs. Banner weekend over the Pond.


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## Logiqx (Mar 5, 2017)

Well... I failed at every single goal this weekend. Beyond terrible in OH, terrible 3x3, bad 4x4 and mediocre in all other events. My Skewb debut was ok (12.3 avg) but frustratingly close to the WR qualification.

I'm sure it's due to the substantial sleep deficit I've built up over the past few weeks. I've been unable to think straight; its hard to plan during inspection, recognise pieces or think clearly during a solve. Very frustrating when just 2 weeks ago I was doing better than ever at every event.

There have been a lot of studies into the effect of sleep deprivation on cognitive abilities. TL;DR - I need to sort my lifestyle out before I even consider competing again.

Anyhow, amongst the terrible solves there were some good things during the weekend:
1) Catching up with everyone.
2) Judging Mark's MBLD.
2) Selling a number of old cubes.
3) The mediocre singles that I logged should be easy to beat next time!

Edit: Congrats to those who did well this weekend.


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## mark49152 (Mar 5, 2017)

Logiqx said:


> Anyhow, amongst the terrible solves there were some good things during the weekend:
> 1) Catching up with everyone.
> 2) Judging Mark's MBLD.


Likewise, and thanks again for judging! 

I felt sad this weekend that I had so little time at the comp to hang around with people. This is the third consecutive comp where I've only been able to drop in for one or two events and had to leave straight after. I'm hoping that by Newcastle things will be returning to normal and I'll be able to stay for most of the comp, and hopefully an oldies' curry too!


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## pglewis (Mar 5, 2017)

mafergut said:


> Congratulations to everybody on your comp PBs and at-home PBs (@pglewis). Nice weekend for BLD or so it seems!
> 
> I will have to make do with some at-home PBs myself
> Broke all my 5x5 PBs (single, Ao5, Ao12, Ao50 & Ao100)
> ...



Nice, and amazing consistency there! I still need a calendar, not a Stackmat, to time 5x5 (I rarely practice or time it, but my spreadsheet says 6:30 PB ). 

The most exciting thing for me about my current 3x3 trend is it's nearly all just from good ol' fashioned grinding; I'm taking eyes off each F2L pair I'm solving a tiny bit earlier. A little help from more attention to edge orientation and a little help from improved lookahead between stages (first pair is still dodgy but F2L -> OLL -> PLL is definitely improving). 

I had a more holistic regimen mapped out but haven't stuck to much of it:

* Full CN: back-burnered for now. White/Yellow CN is "go", though; if I'm still frowning after a few seconds of inspection I'll go ahead and commit to yellow now, usually landing mid to upper 30s. That'll get faster with practice and already beats a crappy start with unfriendly white edges. I don't put any concentrated practice into it, just when white looks annoying.... maybe 1 out of 30 solves or so. 

* OLL: Not being aggressive here, just following my mantra "if my current algs are all comfortable enough to use in speedsolves then pick up a few new ones". I'm up to 20 OLLs now including OCLL and all but the newest (Knight) are fairly solidified. I'm nearing the point where I can one-look OLL half the time and the expansion _is_ gradually helping the times. 

* Cross drills: haven't worked on it at all. My blind exercise back in January had the unexpected side-effect of helping me visualize cross solving a whole lot better. Fewer cases where I just plan out 3 edges and let the 4th fall as it may but I haven't done concentrated practice. 

* OLL/PLL TPS spamming: Hardly at all, mostly just what I get from spamming solves. I certainly don't do any time attacks or even much repetition except for new ones. I do analyze ones that annoy me for one reason or another, e.g. Ab this week. I like R/U/D unless there's a D2 involved but my D2 sucks. I've decided to try incorporating a single-pull D2 with the ring finger; from the left side it would reach to RBD and do the D2 in one motion. I'm already convinced that can flow much better than all my attempts at double flicking. That sort of thing is adding up to improvements but I'm still very much a slo-mo version of what most of you do. 

That's quite a laundry list of things that can improve my times that I haven't even been working on. I picked an official sub-20 average as a major goal because it seemed ridiculously optimistic and ambitious at the time. In fact it was initially a sub 1 min goal-- which felt ambitious at the time-- but I went "crazy" and moved it to :20 well before I was at :60. I'm getting ahead of myself since I'm still a far cry from an official sub 20 but I'm feeling an urge to move that milestone lower. Maybe sub 4. Of course, a 3.9 won't make the second round by the time I get there.


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## newtonbase (Mar 6, 2017)

Logiqx said:


> I'm sure it's due to the substantial sleep deficit I've built up over the past few weeks. I've been unable to think straight; its hard to plan during inspection, recognise pieces or think clearly during a solve. Very frustrating when just 2 weeks ago I was doing better than ever at every event.
> 
> There have been a lot of studies into the effect of sleep deprivation on cognitive abilities. TL;DR - I need to sort my lifestyle out before I even consider competing again.


You are absolutely right. I've barely had a decent night's sleep since I became a father in 2008 and my brain isn't a patch on what it used to be. I'm surprised i get close on MBLD attempts after 3 hours sleep! Good sleep is one of the most important factors in brain function.
(I'm typing this at 3am while trying to get my 2 year old back to sleep.)


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## phreaker (Mar 6, 2017)

Got my 1st BLD success! No timer on it... wasn't real interested in the time, probably won't be until I can start to succeed a bit more consistently.

D' L2 B D L2 B D2 B L' U2 B2 L' U2 L F2 R B2 U2 - If you want a scramble that's a bit of "lol scramble". There ya go, for BLD.

9 edge targets to memo, and 7 corners, because the corners have no cycle need to cycle break! Can't get much easier, yes, it has parity, no I didn't care, not having to I/S or C/W, makes it lolish. (If you are teaching BLD, and want an easy scramble. Have fun. Though you will need to deal with the Q target.)

Hardest part was making sure my memo was rock, rock solid, so I could work on execution, I thought I'd made a mistake in M2. (I do edges -> corners.) So I was pretty surprised to pull off the blindfold and see the cube solved. One of those moments that was SO surprising, it was total shock and "F- yeah!" .

So... for those wondering, I did stick with PAO. It works fine. I did tweak M2 to be "as executed" instead of "as it sits on the cube", for now. I could see going back to normal M2 style memo long term... but for now... I'm happy with my system. It stops me from needing massive word lists, or anything too exotic.


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## kbrune (Mar 6, 2017)

Here's my first attempt at a video. My whirlwind results in 3x3 final!


It really was the best comp I've ever had. With 16 PB's. (3 times I set a PB and beat it again later on) It's hard to believe i'll have success on the same scale again!

Here's my cubecomps page. Much easier then posting all my results by hand.
http://www.cubecomps.com/live.php?cid=1993&compid=92

The only disappointment of the day was 6x6. I had been averaging 5:00 - 5:30 minutes at home. During my first solve. I was at OLL. My cube seized up when 1 or 2 pieces dislocated. No pop. but somehow I just couldn't get the face moving. Took me at least 30 seconds to get it back to normal again. I still don't know why it happened or how I fixed it lol. 
It was a rare chance to get a mean considering the cutoff was so generous. Not to worry though. I could never really be upset considering everything else went well yesterday!


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## h2f (Mar 6, 2017)

phreaker said:


> Got my 1st BLD success!





kbrune said:


> Here's my cubecomps page. Much easier then posting all my results by hand.
> http://www.cubecomps.com/live.php?cid=1993&compid=92



Nice and congrats!


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## newtonbase (Mar 6, 2017)

kbrune said:


> Here's my first attempt at a video. My whirlwind results in 3x3 final!
> 
> 
> It really was the best comp I've ever had. With 16 PB's. (3 times I set a PB and beat it again later on) It's hard to believe i'll have success on the same scale again!
> ...


Well done. Took you a couple of looks to spot that PLL skip at the end!


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## newtonbase (Mar 6, 2017)

Hi lhfdeednphbfchfkgfsqyfhhhp thank opposite


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## Logiqx (Mar 6, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> Hi lhfdeednphbfchfkgfsqyfhhhp thank opposite


???

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk


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## mark49152 (Mar 6, 2017)

Logiqx said:


> ???


Sleep deprivation?


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## Shaky Hands (Mar 6, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> Sleep deprivation?



All night drinking session?


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## Logiqx (Mar 6, 2017)

Awesome results @kbrune 

Congrats!


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## newtonbase (Mar 6, 2017)

Logiqx said:


> ???
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk





mark49152 said:


> Sleep deprivation?





Shaky Hands said:


> All night drinking session?


Ha ha. That must have been my son.


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## Shaky Hands (Mar 6, 2017)

Time for my usual post-comp notes:

*Saturday*

The weekend started with a callout by work at 1.30am, so I started the 3-hour drive to the comp with no sleep and ended up needing to drive into a service station car park for a 30 minute snooze. Not the best way to start off.

2x2 - I managed to get PB single by 0.95s and PB average by 1.19s despite my usual no-practice approach to this event.

4x4 - PB single by 0.38s in the first solve secured my way to recording an average. Managed a PB average by 0.43s despite a poor 2nd solve and a DNF pop in the 5th solve. Without the pop, it could have been a good average for me.

Multiblind - After only one dedicated MBLD attempt (which was a successful but untimed 2/2) I put in 4 cubes with the aim of getting a valid 2/4 result for my profie. Worked out well with the 2/4 achieved in 21:56 for my first official Blind success in any format. After this I was happy with whatever happened for the rest of the comp.

3x3 OH - practiced nothing, achieved nothing. Second scramble was U2 B2 D2 B' L2 D2 B' U2 R2 F' R F' U' B R2 U B2 R' B' R2, which would be a nice cross for me 2-handed.

6x6 - Almost made the 5m cut, but a pop during a T-perm meant I finished with a time of 5:13.54. Even so, it's a PB by over 35 seconds.

7x7 - Another good single (by my scale at least) with a 42+ second improvement to 7:34.96.

*Sunday*

Skewb - I would call my results embarrassing, but that would imply I cared more than I really did. I was surprised how much a lack of practice has affected my results with this puzzle though.

3x3 - First official sub-25 average (24.61). I'm averaging around 23s at home, so still room for improvement. I'm finding that 3x3 is a less stressful event in comps like this where I know I have no chance of making the second round.

5x5 - Almost got an average, finishing 5s away from the cut with a new PB single of 2:35.48 (11+ second improvement.) An average will happen for me sometime, I just wonder if I'll get a 6x6 average first.

3x3 BLD - First 3BLD competition success (excluding previous day's MBLD) with 5:02.81, just using pure Old Pochmann. Attempted a second solve, rushed the memo a bit but having checked the scramble since, my memo was correct and I just made a mistake in execution (possible over-rotation.) Happy anyway.

TL;DR...

The weekend's results have somehow taken a fairly average cuber like me to a state where I have 13 out of 18 events with a result on my WCA profile. Especially happy to have some official BLD and MBLD results.

A fun comp as always and great to see @bubbagrub, @Logiqx and @mark49152 once again. Hope to see Ben again at FMC Europe in 4 weeks but I'll be on-call that weekend, so my attendance there will depend on that.

Next up: learn more OLL, learn M2 for BLD and in prep for a possible 4BLD, re-learn SQ1, shave 30% off Mega times.


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## muchacho (Mar 6, 2017)

Congrats all, so many PBs!

I've just almost got a PB (if I had paid more attention during LSE). It's third best time I think.

39174 06-mar-2017 12:48:21 00:12.344 F2 U F2 D L2 D F2 L2 F2 U2 F2 R' B L' U' B' D' F' L B2 L'

y2
U F2 R2 U' B
M U' R U R Rw U Rw' M' U' M Rw' U' Rw
U' F R U R' U' F'
M U M U M' M' U2 M U2 M2 U M U2 M' U2 M2

42 STM
3.40 tps


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## newtonbase (Mar 6, 2017)

Shaky Hands said:


> Multiblind - After only one dedicated MBLD attempt (which was a successful but untimed 2/2) I put in 4 cubes with the aim of getting a valid 2/4 result for my profie. Worked out well with the 2/4 achieved in 21:56 for my first official Blind success in any format. After this I was happy with whatever happened for the rest of the comp.


I suspected that was what you had done. Your time looked too quick!
Well done on all the PBs.


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## Shaky Hands (Mar 6, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> I suspected that was what you had done. Your time looked too quick!
> Well done on all the PBs.



I had enough time spare to have attempted a 2/3 rather than a 2/4 I think. Anyway, it's something to build from.


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## mark49152 (Mar 6, 2017)

Shaky Hands said:


> I had enough time spare to have attempted a 2/3 rather than a 2/4 I think. Anyway, it's something to build from.


Did you check the cubes and choose the easiest two? Or just go with the two closest to hand?


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## newtonbase (Mar 6, 2017)

I've just got yet another 2/4 MBLD. Both recall errors which is unusual. I knew one of them was a very dodgy image but I couldn't recall which one I usually use.


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## Shaky Hands (Mar 6, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> Did you check the cubes and choose the easiest two? Or just go with the two closest to hand?



I got these 4 scrambles:


D' B2 L2 B2 R2 F2 R' B L' F L U2 L' F' L2 R2 D' F Uw'
D2 B2 U2 B' F2 U2 R2 F' L2 D2 U F' D L' R F U' L' B2 Uw2
U2 L F2 L2 B2 L U2 L' D2 F2 D' F U' B R2 F' U R2 D2 R Uw2
D2 U' F2 D' B2 L2 B2 R2 F2 U' L U F2 R2 D2 R' D B' L2 D' U Rw Uw2

I picked the 2nd and 4th of these as the 1st and 3rd had my edge buffer already solved. If this wasn't the case, I'd have just used the nearest two.

Memo for #2 was 12 edges and 8 corners. Memo for #4 was 13 edges, parity and 7 corners.


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## newtonbase (Mar 6, 2017)

Shaky Hands said:


> I got these 4 scrambles:
> 
> 
> D' B2 L2 B2 R2 F2 R' B L' F L U2 L' F' L2 R2 D' F Uw'
> ...


I might try them for my next attempt on Wednesday


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## kbrune (Mar 6, 2017)

@Shaky Hands 

Congrats on your results! Your big cube times are so good! Gives me hope that my 6x6 and 7x7 may improve someday.

How often did you practice them?


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## Shaky Hands (Mar 6, 2017)

kbrune said:


> @Shaky Hands
> 
> Congrats on your results! Your big cube times are so good! Gives me hope that my 6x6 and 7x7 may improve someday.
> 
> How often did you practice them?



Thanks @kbrune, very kind of you  Yes I think they're comparatively good compared to my mediocre 3x3 times.

I practiced 5x5 more than anything else going into the first comp of the year and 6x6 and 7x7 more than anything else going into this most recent one. The next full comp here has no 6x6 or 7x7 so I'll probably go back to 5x5 as my main focus.

I only really practice 3x3 in the few days before a comp and even then it's only 100-150 solves in all. I still get some ongoing 3x3 practice in during the 3x3 stage on other cubes, or when fixing botched BLD solves.

I think in the early days with 6x6 and 7x7 you can probably shave 30 seconds or more for every 50 solves you do.

For me, with a left hand with nerve damage, it just doesn't finger-trick well or do great in co-ordination with the right, so I think bigger cubes give me more of a chance to get comparatively good results.

Good luck with the big cubes. They're a lot of fun I think.


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## kbrune (Mar 6, 2017)

How do you add a picture to your WCA profile? I can't seem to figure it out.


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## Logiqx (Mar 6, 2017)

I just did my first feet solve. No idea why... other than being bored!


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## megagoune (Mar 6, 2017)

kbrune said:


> How do you add a picture to your WCA profile? I can't seem to figure it out.


I think you need to connect your account to your wca id first. After that, you can add a picture to your profile.
Found that in the FAQ: https://www.worldcubeassociation.org/faq#how-do-i-change-my-profile-picture


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## megagoune (Mar 6, 2017)

kbrune said:


> Here's my first attempt at a video. My whirlwind results in 3x3 final!
> 
> 
> It really was the best comp I've ever had. With 16 PB's. (3 times I set a PB and beat it again later on) It's hard to believe i'll have success on the same scale again!
> ...



Great results! The video is super nice, we can see how much you enjoy it.
Congratulations on your baby boy


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## kbrune (Mar 6, 2017)

@megagoune

I just registered an account on the WCA site. Now it's telling me to wait for a delegate to verify me. Well see if that works.

Thanks! I have a daughter. Who only has a tiny interest in cubing. Probably less then tiny lol. Hopefully my boy will be in to it. He may not have a choice


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## kbrune (Mar 6, 2017)

Logiqx said:


> I just did my first feet solve. No idea why... other than being bored!



Feet is where I always drew the line. The cube was meant for hands. Feet belong hidden away in boots and shoes!

However... I fear I may break my own rules one day because of my overwhelming need to register results in all WCA events!


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## bubbagrub (Mar 6, 2017)

Logiqx said:


> I just did my first feet solve. No idea why... other than being bored



Feet is great fun. I recommend it. Only problem is, you can't practise it on the train...


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## CLL Smooth (Mar 6, 2017)

Logiqx said:


> I just did my first feet solve. No idea why... other than being bored!


This morning my daughter said "watch me solve this with my feet dad." I thought it was completely random but then remembered that she went to a comp with me last year where they held feet. 
Got an 11.xy single at comp on Saturday! I'm still trying to reconstruct, but I'm afraid I've exhausted the most obvious possibilities.


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## newtonbase (Mar 6, 2017)

Sneaked in another 4 cube attempt. 3/4 in 20:01. Fastest and most accurate so far. Messed up on the very first letter of cube 2. Knew I'd screwed the undo but wasn't sure if I'd done the setup wrong and guessed wrong. 
For once I did it at home on my own with a blindfold. Makes a difference when it's peaceful.


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## Shaky Hands (Mar 6, 2017)

kbrune said:


> I just registered an account on the WCA site. Now it's telling me to wait for a delegate to verify me. Well see if that works.



Yeah the functionality works. I guess some delegates respond at different speeds to others although in my case it was very quick.


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## mark49152 (Mar 6, 2017)

Shaky Hands said:


> Yeah the functionality works. I guess some delegates respond at different speeds to others although in my case it was very quick.


That's a very large Pyraminx you're solving there, Andy...


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## Shaky Hands (Mar 6, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> That's a very large Pyraminx you're solving there, Andy...



Took me a while to work out what you meant by that. Very clever Mark, well played sir.


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## mark49152 (Mar 6, 2017)

Shaky Hands said:


> Took me a while to work out what you meant by that. Very clever Mark, well played sir.


Or maybe I should be explaining myself in the "signs you've been cubing too long" thread


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## pglewis (Mar 6, 2017)

Logiqx said:


> Well... I failed at every single goal this weekend. Beyond terrible in OH, terrible 3x3, bad 4x4 and mediocre in all other events. My Skewb debut was ok (12.3 avg) but frustratingly close to the WR qualification.
> 
> I'm sure it's due to the substantial sleep deficit I've built up over the past few weeks. I've been unable to think straight; its hard to plan during inspection, recognise pieces or think clearly during a solve. Very frustrating when just 2 weeks ago I was doing better than ever at every event.
> 
> ...



Bummer that it was disappointing for you. Just from the numbers, having pretty much destroyed your previous PBs on bigger cubes, I thought it was a better weekend for ya than it was... but I know personal goals are completely independent from what's officially in the books. Better luck next go-round.


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## Shaky Hands (Mar 6, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> Or maybe I should be explaining myself in the "signs you've been cubing too long" thread



It took over an hour to solve that Pyra as well. Thankfully the venue had favourable light conditions and most of the inspection time was spent reading a map. Confusion arose from the puzzle's non-standard colour scheme.

I had to use my feet for part of the solve too.

Hmm... OK, I'll stop now.


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## mark49152 (Mar 6, 2017)

Looks like a nasty scramble for BLD. Terrible edges!


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## phreaker (Mar 7, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> Looks like a nasty scramble for BLD. Terrible edges!


Mine?


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## Shaky Hands (Mar 7, 2017)

phreaker said:


> Mine?



Mark's talking about the "Pyra" I'm "solving" on my WCA profile image. Hence all the bad puns and in-jokes above.


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## phreaker (Mar 7, 2017)

Shaky Hands said:


> Mark's talking about the "Pyra" I'm "solving" on my WCA profile image. Hence all the bad puns and in-jokes above.


Cool!


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## h2f (Mar 7, 2017)

Shaky Hands said:


> Mark's talking about the "Pyra" I'm "solving" on my WCA profile image. Hence all the bad puns and in-jokes above.



Awsome image.


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## Shaky Hands (Mar 7, 2017)

Thanks. I guess it's proof that cubers don't spend all their time indoors. 

EDIT: For anyone wondering, it's me on Sgurr Dearg (also known as The Inaccessible Pinnacle) on the Isle of Skye, off the west coast of Scotland.


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## mark49152 (Mar 7, 2017)




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## newtonbase (Mar 8, 2017)

mark49152 said:


>


Shame about cube 2. The only one you needed in the correct orientation was the only one where it was wrong. Excellent save on cube 3!
Tap tap tap.


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## Shaky Hands (Mar 8, 2017)

Great work @mark49152. Well done.


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## Jason Green (Mar 8, 2017)

Great job on all the results guys, nice video too @kbrune!


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## pglewis (Mar 8, 2017)

I'm at the stage of improvement where I'm wildly inconsistent but breaking new ground on the best singles, so I'm not tracking any sessions for a bit but still running the Stackmat in case a good one turns up. Another best by .8, gettin' closer.



Easy 5-move cross with two edges already placed, sune+F-perm last layer.


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## JohnnyReggae (Mar 8, 2017)

Took a walk at work today with my new GTS M, which feels quite different to my other GTS M ... weird. Anyway ... got another OH PB  22.27

Quite chuffed with that one with a lucky PLL skip, could have been quicker if I hadn't done that y2 at the end. Should have done a z instead. This is the first time I've tried to reconstruct an OH solve ...

D2 L2 B2 U2 B' L2 B' D2 L2 F' R2 D F' R' F L2 F2 L2 R D'

z2 // inspection
D F' R' y R' y U' R2 D //cross 7
R U2' R' y' R U R' // 1st 13
y' R U2' R' U' y' R U2' R' U R U' R' // 2nd 24
y U' R U2' R' U R U' R' // 3rd 32
y2 U R U' R' // 4th 36
U' R U R' U R U2' R' U' // oll pll-skip 45

// = 22.27 @ 2.02tps


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## mark49152 (Mar 8, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> Shame about cube 2. The only one you needed in the correct orientation was the only one where it was wrong.


I have forgotten parity in a couple of previous comp attempts and been unable to go back and fix it because I used to just set the solved cubes aside. That's the sole reason I switched to putting all the cubes back in place. So it's ironic and annoying that this time I made the same mistake but my safety net completely failed to help .


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## newtonbase (Mar 8, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> I have forgotten parity in a couple of previous comp attempts and been unable to go back and fix it because I used to just set the solved cubes aside. That's the sole reason I switched to putting all the cubes back in place. So it's ironic and annoying that this time I made the same mistake but my safety net completely failed to help .


Your layout is interesting. Not sure I'd like that row at the front of the table. I'll need to make a decision on that when I start doing a decent number of cubes.


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## mark49152 (Mar 8, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> Your layout is interesting. Not sure I'd like that row at the front of the table. I'll need to make a decision on that when I start doing a decent number of cubes.


I think most BLDers use a similar layout, in blocks, front to back. I recently started executing last block first since it gets the least reviews. I think the front block is not as close as it might look, and there's a Stackmat to keep it on the table, otherwise I might have been more cautious. Not sure why I pushed the last block away from the rest - that wasn't calculated, maybe it just seemed natural since that was first to be executed.


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## JohnnyReggae (Mar 8, 2017)

So close to the 1 minute mark with 4x4 ... 1:03.11 . At least it's a new PB


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## newtonbase (Mar 8, 2017)

2/4 MBLD yet again. Couple of edge cycles off on cube 1 but misscramble so can't trace it. Transposed 2 words on cube 2 in recall so all the corners were wrong.


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## phreaker (Mar 8, 2017)

Got a second successful blindsolve in, and my failures are starting to look more promising. Overall, I'm happy with the progress. Just have to keep trying. Keep trying... Keep trying...

I think my main issue is mistakes in tracing right now. Once I get past that, and a bit more confident, I can start to push on speed, because I'm no speed demon right now... I suspect the real focus at the start is just get consistent. Then push. I should think about memorizing my verbal memo method soon. If I can get that down it might help, long term. But the memorization will take a bit. (I don't actually memorize things like algs and whatnot quickly... that's part of why I use PAO vs. letter pair words.)


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## newtonbase (Mar 8, 2017)

phreaker said:


> Got a second successful blindsolve in, and my failures are starting to look more promising. Overall, I'm happy with the progress. Just have to keep trying. Keep trying... Keep trying...
> 
> I think my main issue is mistakes in tracing right now. Once I get past that, and a bit more confident, I can start to push on speed, because I'm no speed demon right now... I suspect the real focus at the start is just get consistent. Then push. I should think about memorizing my verbal memo method soon. If I can get that down it might help, long term. But the memorization will take a bit. (I don't actually memorize things like algs and whatnot quickly... that's part of why I use PAO vs. letter pair words.)


Tracing is very important. Get it wrong and you're stuffed. I had trouble for quite some time due to confusing the top and bottom layers which I put down to using white on top for blind. I don't think there are any shortcuts, you just need a lot of practice.


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## SenorJuan (Mar 8, 2017)

"Anyway ... got another OH PB .. 22.27"

Good OH time, there, Johnny. I find it hard to recreate OH solves, too, I think it's the cube rotations that cause me to stumble.

Is that your normal approach to the second slot case? I recommend you familiarise yourself with using the sledgehammer/mirror to make that pair, even if it needs odd cube rotations (or good F /F' moves).
So it could be performed as:

y' x U R' U' R x' y' R U R' .......2nd slot

And the 4th slot, as you say, the y2 wasn't needed.... z rotations are an essential part of my OH weaponry :

z R U R' U' z' ......4th slot


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## phreaker (Mar 8, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> Tracing is very important. Get it wrong and you're stuffed. I had trouble for quite some time due to confusing the top and bottom layers which I put down to using white on top for blind. I don't think there are any shortcuts, you just need a lot of practice.



I can tell that. My tracing for corners is usually good... edges is still a bit shaky. But more attempts, and it'll get there.

Practice is the order of the day, as you said. Just keep going. I've had to go through this with other mental activities, and games. Practice, practice, practice, and be careful not to re-enforce too many bad habits .


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## kbrune (Mar 8, 2017)

Really wish I had WiFi at work. All these videos I forget to watch when I get home! Looking forward to you mbld video mark!


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## pglewis (Mar 8, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> 2/4 MBLD yet again.



You keep getting so close, I may have as big a reaction here as you do when you nail it lol. 



phreaker said:


> I suspect the real focus at the start is just get consistent. Then push.



You've definitely overtaken me. I got all excited that my 3x3 times started moving again and haven't practiced blind at all for weeks. I managed about a half dozen successes overall, I didn't bother timing many but the best one I did time was 11 mins and change... most of which was tracing, and memo, and review, and review, and tracing...


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## phreaker (Mar 8, 2017)

pglewis said:


> You've definitely overtaken me. I got all excited that my 3x3 times started moving again and haven't practiced blind at all for weeks. I managed about a half dozen successes overall, I didn't bother timing many but the best one I did time was 11 mins and change... most of which was tracing, and memo, and review, and review, and tracing...



"Parity"... "Why is the corner target count even, and the edges odd."

.... #@%$#!%#@^%$#%@#$#@


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## pipkiksass (Mar 8, 2017)

Massive kudos to all you BLDers (peaky or otherwise), I find your skills mesmerising and insanely impressive. I just don't have the time to dedicate to BLD right now, but will definitely be trying it out one of these days. And adopting Mark's tap. Best. Tic. Ever!

Congrats on all the PBs everyone, especially to @kbrune on both comp PBs and PB number of children fathered by him (beat his old PB by 1, I believe).

I have a PB on amount of cancer had - currently zero (less is better), was previously lots. Got the all-clear from my doc on Monday afternoon. No cubing records recently, but I intend to plough on with 3x3 and 4x4, despite the fact that I'll be going back to work soon and have even less free time than the extra spattering I've had for the past 6 months.

In the 6 months I've been off work I managed to learn all but about 6 OLLs. I still revert to 2-look for a few in speed solves, but I'm pleased with that. I also learnt 4x4, and now average about 1:10. And I've got down to the very border of sub-18 globally on 3x3. 

Back to work Monday. Boo!


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## pglewis (Mar 8, 2017)

pipkiksass said:


> I have a PB on amount of cancer had - currently zero (less is better), was previously lots.



Best PB in this thread and congrats on reaching a clean scan, sir.


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## pglewis (Mar 8, 2017)

My daily diary entry includes a few more signs I've been hoping to see: I hit back-to-back 25s and landed a 28.x with yellow cross last night (turned a bad start on white into a sub-30). Definitely looking to see more mid 20s and lower as the next move, still can't seem to harness it for more than about a half dozen solves before I regress with some high 30s / low 40s. I'm still happy with 26s but don't leap out of the chair over them now. Lucky sub-20 single is the hottest one for me to get. Sub-30 Ao12 shouldn't be far off either; when I do start seeing a few more of those mid 20s I'll know it's time.


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## pipkiksass (Mar 8, 2017)

pglewis said:


> My daily diary entry includes a few more signs I've been hoping to see: I hit back-to-back 25s and landed a 28.x with yellow cross last night (turned a bad start on white into a sub-30). Definitely looking to see more mid 20s and lower as the next move, still can't seem to harness it for more than about a half dozen solves before I regress with some high 30s / low 40s. I'm still happy with 26s but don't leap out of the chair over them now. Lucky sub-20 single is the hottest one for me to get. Sub-30 Ao12 shouldn't be far off either; when I do start seeing a few more of those mid 20s I'll know it's time.



Congrats on your continued progress.

It's really funny how your "acceptable"/"pleased"/"happy"/"excited" times shift forwards as you improve. For example, I'm positively angry if I get 21+ these days. 

I distinctly recall sessions where I carried on for ages trying to get a sub-20 before I'd go to bed. Now sub-20 is just acceptable, sub-17 is good, and I'll often carry on until I get a sub-15, but don't get excited by them. Sub-14, or low 14s, are still exciting for me. Really pleased if I get a low-13 or better.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## phreaker (Mar 9, 2017)

pipkiksass said:


> Massive kudos to all you BLDers (peaky or otherwise), I find your skills mesmerising and insanely impressive. I just don't have the time to dedicate to BLD right now, but will definitely be trying it out one of these days. And adopting Mark's tap. Best. Tic. Ever!



It isn't that hard. It is more just learning all the small things to get it right. The memory isn't THAT bad. 



> I have a PB on amount of cancer had - currently zero (less is better), was previously lots. Got the all-clear from my doc on Monday afternoon. No cubing records recently, but I intend to plough on with 3x3 and 4x4, despite the fact that I'll be going back to work soon and have even less free time than the extra spattering I've had for the past 6 months.



Grats man!

Awesome news .



> In the 6 months I've been off work I managed to learn all but about 6 OLLs. I still revert to 2-look for a few in speed solves, but I'm pleased with that. I also learnt 4x4, and now average about 1:10. And I've got down to the very border of sub-18 globally on 3x3.
> 
> Back to work Monday. Boo!



Good part, you can go back to work, bad part, you are .


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## newtonbase (Mar 9, 2017)

pipkiksass said:


> Got the all-clear from my doc on Monday afternoon.


Great news.


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## kbrune (Mar 9, 2017)

pipkiksass said:


> Massive kudos to all you BLDers (peaky or otherwise), I find your skills mesmerising and insanely impressive. I just don't have the time to dedicate to BLD right now, but will definitely be trying it out one of these days. And adopting Mark's tap. Best. Tic. Ever!
> 
> Congrats on all the PBs everyone, especially to @kbrune on both comp PBs and PB number of children fathered by him (beat his old PB by 1, I believe).
> 
> ...



Lol You're the only one who noticed my offspring PB! 
Congrats on the all clear! Best news of the thread by far!


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## Jason Green (Mar 9, 2017)

kbrune said:


> Really wish I had WiFi at work. All these videos I forget to watch when I get home! Looking forward to you mbld video mark!


Sometimes I'll use the watch later queue in YouTube so I don't forget to watch them. Or just make sure you're subscribed and catch up on the feed on YouTube.


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## kbrune (Mar 9, 2017)

@mark49152 
Very nice Mbld result. I learned lots just watching it. Nice recovery on #3. Im curious as to what was so odd about memo that it was obvious that there was a mistake. same letter more then twice? If you break into a new cycle 1 letter could come twice.


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## kbrune (Mar 9, 2017)

Jason Green said:


> Sometimes I'll use the watch later queue in YouTube so I don't forget to watch them. Or just make sure you're subscribed and catch up on the feed on YouTube.



wasn't aware that existed! I'll have to check that out.


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## Jason Green (Mar 9, 2017)

pipkiksass said:


> I have a PB on amount of cancer had - currently zero (less is better), was previously lots. Got the all-clear from my doc on Monday afternoon. No cubing records recently, but I intend to plough on with 3x3 and 4x4, despite the fact that I'll be going back to work soon and have even less free time than the extra spattering I've had for the past 6 months.


Awesome news!!

If y'all are really bored I streamed a practice session on FB. It's a "self tryout" for qualifying for Nationals.  I barely made the cut for 4x4. I wish I knew why my android doesn't let me save it in HD.





__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10158307840465425


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## mark49152 (Mar 9, 2017)

kbrune said:


> @mark49152
> Very nice Mbld result. I learned lots just watching it. Nice recovery on #3. Im curious as to what was so odd about memo that it was obvious that there was a mistake. same letter more then twice? If you break into a new cycle 1 letter could come twice.


Thanks. My corner memo was SK QO GC C which immediately rang an alarm bell. The most likely explanation was that there were no earlier mistakes and the last three should have been GC G or CG C. I went with CG because I knew I would have favoured C over G to start a new cycle on an odd target. 

The reason I hesitated so long is because the scramble had a solved corner and I was thinking through whether the duplicated target should have been on that piece, in which case the first of those three letters would not have started a new cycle. The ending could have been GD C for example. That didn't seem such a likely mistake. In the end it was a best guess though.


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## JohnnyReggae (Mar 9, 2017)

SenorJuan said:


> "Anyway ... got another OH PB .. 22.27"
> 
> Good OH time, there, Johnny. I find it hard to recreate OH solves, too, I think it's the cube rotations that cause me to stumble.
> 
> ...


I like your approach to the 2nd slot using the sledge. Hadn't occurred to me to think sledge, thanks for that  Anything to get faster with OH particularly with all those rotations. Yup, that y2 at the end ... completely unnecessary, should have done that z  could have shaved off at least a second or more off of the time.


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## JohnnyReggae (Mar 9, 2017)

I have done a total of 7 magnetic conversions so far with some highlights and some mediocre.

 
List:
2x2 Kung Fu (N38 3x2mm)
3x3 Weilong GTS x 2 (N35 4x2mm)
3x3 GAN Air (N35 4x2mm)
3x3 Valk 3 (N35 3x2mm)
4x4 Yuxin Blue (N35 4x2mm & N35 3x2mm)
4x4 QiYi WuQue (N35 4x2mm & N38 3x2mm)

The best of these ITO what the magnets do for the cube are the WuQue, GTS, and Blue. The ones that are a little too weak are the Valk and Kung Fu. The GAN is too strong IMO.

The WuQue is the standout though. It is simply an amazing 4x4 and with the magnets it is just that much better. Definitely my main over the Blue M, which is also made that much better with the addition of magnets.

I'm interested in looking at doing a 5x5, just not sure which way to go with the magnets. A complication of that is the availability of magnets which I've been buying off of eBay. They take 2 months to get here. I did find a local magnet supplier, but their stock is limited in the sizes and strengths needed to do cube conversions.

I must say that I have been enjoying the whole magnetic conversion process, even the ones that didn't turn out as well as I had hoped. Trying to sell those ones now to fund replacement cubes that I can try other magnets in.


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## pipkiksass (Mar 9, 2017)

JohnnyReggae said:


> I have done a total of 7 magnetic conversions so far with some highlights and some mediocre.
> 
> View attachment 7637
> List:
> ...



My valk has 3x2 N35s, and I think it's better than a "normal" Valk: I can feel the magnets, and they help. I've not tried any other magnetic cubes, so I'd not considered the fact they might be too weak!!

Did you use a tutorial for magnetising a 4x4? Might have a go at my WuQue.

Really sympathise about the postage situation, we're so spoilt in the UK - I get frustrated when stuff doesn't arrive next day!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## JohnnyReggae (Mar 9, 2017)

pipkiksass said:


> My valk has 3x2 N35s, and I think it's better than a "normal" Valk: I can feel the magnets, and they help. I've not tried any other magnetic cubes, so I'd not considered the fact they might be too weak!!
> 
> Did you use a tutorial for magnetising a 4x4? Might have a go at my WuQue.
> 
> ...


I agree that the Valk with N35 3x2's is better than a standard Valk. There is just enough to feel that the magnets are there and they do provide more stability to an already stable cube, for me anyway.

For the 4x4 I watched SpeedCubeReviews's video for the tips on what to do. 









The polarity on the 4x4 is quite easy when you finally get your head around it, but basically every magnet that you glue goes in in the same direction, as long as you maintain your polarity on the stick of magnets that you feed from. Same for the 2x2. The Kung Fu was a very simple conversion in the end.

@DMCubing on YouTube ( https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCIPR95xx7h14-KXogfVz9-g ) has some excellent tutorials on doing most 3x3's and a few 2x2's. His process and method is what I have been using.

The WuQue with magnets is just amazing ... I'm still blown away by it. Also my averages are down and I've broken the lower PB's with the WuQue M. I suspect that once I have 100 solves done (which will be soon), I will have a new ao100 as well 

mo3 = 01:10.56
ao5 = 01:11.15
ao12 = 01:18.89


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## muchacho (Mar 9, 2017)

Ao12 PB: 17.539 (was 17.823 from 2-3 weeks ago)



Spoiler



39504 09-mar-2017 14:39:50 00:16.415 D2 F2 D' U' R2 F2 U' B2 L2 U' B2 R U B' R' D F D2 F' U' L' U
39503 09-mar-2017 14:39:11 00:16.200 D2 F2 U' F2 U B2 R2 U' B2 D B U2 B L B2 F2 L' F' D' R
39502 09-mar-2017 14:38:27 00:18.310 F2 D2 U' L2 F2 L2 U' R2 D' B2 R2 F' L' D' L2 D' R2 L2 B2 R' U'
39501 09-mar-2017 14:37:44 00:16.199 R2 U' B2 U2 F2 R2 U' B2 R2 U B2 L' D U' B L' B' D' F2 D' L2
39500 09-mar-2017 14:37:06 00:18.254 D F2 D' U B2 U F2 U L2 F2 U' L B' L U' R2 B' D B2 F D2 U2
39499 09-mar-2017 14:36:30 00:16.094 D' F2 D' F2 D' L2 B2 U' B2 L2 U' L B R L2 D B2 D L B2 F' D
39498 09-mar-2017 14:35:47 00:24.885 D' R2 F2 D2 R2 F2 D' R2 D' B2 D2 L' B U F D R' F2 D' F2 L
39497 09-mar-2017 14:35:05 00:16.670 D R2 D F2 D' B2 D' B2 F2 U' B' R F R' F2 R' D2 B L2 D' U2
39496 09-mar-2017 14:34:26 00:20.135 B2 F2 U' B2 U' L2 B2 D U2 R2 D B' D2 U2 L2 D2 R' D F U F U'
39495 09-mar-2017 14:33:50 00:18.125 U2 R2 L2 U B2 U' R2 D R2 D2 U' B' R2 U' L' B L2 U F2 R' F'
39494 09-mar-2017 14:33:09 00:18.991 L2 U2 R2 B2 U' F2 D' F2 L2 U B2 R' F' U B U' B2 R B L B' L'
39493 09-mar-2017 14:32:34 00:15.199 L2 D2 R2 F2 U L2 B2 U L2 B2 D B' F2 L2 D2 L B2 U F' D2 L2 U'



edit: 17.245 now 


Spoiler



39510 09-mar-2017 14:52:02 00:17.551 R2 D L2 U R2 L2 U F2 L2 D B' L F D B2 D2 R' F2 U2 L' U2
39509 09-mar-2017 14:51:20 00:15.696 F2 U2 L2 F2 D B2 D R2 B2 F2 U' R B2 R' U F' L' B R D' B2
39508 09-mar-2017 14:50:32 00:16.863 B2 D' L2 U L2 D2 B2 U' L2 U B2 L' U2 R' B2 U' B' F2 L B D'
39507 09-mar-2017 14:49:55 00:17.264 D2 L2 D F2 D' F2 U2 R2 U' B2 U' L B' R' U B' F2 D' U2 B F2 L'
39506 09-mar-2017 14:49:12 00:21.991 R2 B2 F2 U' B2 U F2 R2 D2 L2 D2 L U2 L2 F D2 R' L D F2 L' U2
39505 09-mar-2017 14:48:31 00:19.309 D F2 D' R2 L2 D' B2 F2 L2 U R D L' F D2 R2 L D' R2 B2
39504 09-mar-2017 14:39:50 00:16.415 D2 F2 D' U' R2 F2 U' B2 L2 U' B2 R U B' R' D F D2 F' U' L' U
39503 09-mar-2017 14:39:11 00:16.200 D2 F2 U' F2 U B2 R2 U' B2 D B U2 B L B2 F2 L' F' D' R
39502 09-mar-2017 14:38:27 00:18.310 F2 D2 U' L2 F2 L2 U' R2 D' B2 R2 F' L' D' L2 D' R2 L2 B2 R' U'
39501 09-mar-2017 14:37:44 00:16.199 R2 U' B2 U2 F2 R2 U' B2 R2 U B2 L' D U' B L' B' D' F2 D' L2
39500 09-mar-2017 14:37:06 00:18.254 D F2 D' U B2 U F2 U L2 F2 U' L B' L U' R2 B' D B2 F D2 U2
39499 09-mar-2017 14:36:30 00:16.094 D' F2 D' F2 D' L2 B2 U' B2 L2 U' L B R L2 D B2 D L B2 F' D



edit2: 17.198


Spoiler



39512 09-mar-2017 14:57:02 00:16.951 F2 D2 B2 U' B2 L2 B2 U2 R2 U' R U' L B D2 R D2 U2 B' R U'
39511 09-mar-2017 14:56:18 00:16.926 R2 L2 F2 D' L2 D2 U' F2 D' R2 U2 L' B R' U2 F D' R B' F2 R2 D'
39510 09-mar-2017 14:52:02 00:17.551 R2 D L2 U R2 L2 U F2 L2 D B' L F D B2 D2 R' F2 U2 L' U2
39509 09-mar-2017 14:51:20 00:15.696 F2 U2 L2 F2 D B2 D R2 B2 F2 U' R B2 R' U F' L' B R D' B2
39508 09-mar-2017 14:50:32 00:16.863 B2 D' L2 U L2 D2 B2 U' L2 U B2 L' U2 R' B2 U' B' F2 L B D'
39507 09-mar-2017 14:49:55 00:17.264 D2 L2 D F2 D' F2 U2 R2 U' B2 U' L B' R' U B' F2 D' U2 B F2 L'
39506 09-mar-2017 14:49:12 00:21.991 R2 B2 F2 U' B2 U F2 R2 D2 L2 D2 L U2 L2 F D2 R' L D F2 L' U2
39505 09-mar-2017 14:48:31 00:19.309 D F2 D' R2 L2 D' B2 F2 L2 U R D L' F D2 R2 L D' R2 B2
39504 09-mar-2017 14:39:50 00:16.415 D2 F2 D' U' R2 F2 U' B2 L2 U' B2 R U B' R' D F D2 F' U' L' U
39503 09-mar-2017 14:39:11 00:16.200 D2 F2 U' F2 U B2 R2 U' B2 D B U2 B L B2 F2 L' F' D' R
39502 09-mar-2017 14:38:27  00:18.310 F2 D2 U' L2 F2 L2 U' R2 D' B2 R2 F' L' D' L2 D' R2 L2 B2 R' U'
39501 09-mar-2017 14:37:44 00:16.199 R2 U' B2 U2 F2 R2 U' B2 R2 U B2 L' D U' B L' B' D' F2 D' L2


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## newtonbase (Mar 9, 2017)

Today's 2/4 MBLD was done in 19:34. First sub 20mins. Errors were both memo. Cube 1 - wrong edge sticker so resulted in flipped edge. Cube 4 - I missed the last corner and a whole edge cycle. There should have been parity but my mistakes left me with even numbers for corners and edges! One day.


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## Shaky Hands (Mar 9, 2017)

A rare 25-solve 3x3 practice session this lunchtime brought with it a new PB single. One of only 2 sub-15s I've ever got.

Generated By csTimer on 2017-3-9
single: 14.48

Time List:
1. 14.47 D2 F2 R' F2 D2 F' U2 B D' B R2 L2 D2 R2 F B2 D2 R2 F2 U2

x2 y // inspection
R L F2 U' R' F R // cross
y L U L' U F U' F' // 1st pair
U' L U L' U L U' L' // 2nd pair
B U' B' U B U B' // 3rd pair
U F' U F U' F' U' F // 4th pair
U' F U R U' R' F' // OLL & PLL skip
U' // AUF

There's undoubtedly better cross solutions to what I did, but it led to a good solve for me, so no complaints.

For the 3rd pair, not sure if I used B moves in this solve or not. I do sometimes. Other times I do a rotation.


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## kbrune (Mar 9, 2017)

Shaky Hands said:


> x2 y // inspection
> R L F2 U' R' F R // cross
> 
> There's undoubtedly better cross solutions to what I did, but it led to a good solve for me, so no complaints.
> .



Do you always handle a flipped edge like that? Or is it situational depending on where you hands are. 

I liked yours and may use it to avoid regrip. I always do this. D R D' F. All with my right hand. The R and F are done with my index while I wrist turn D back and forth. It's pretty fast which is why I always use it. But there's always a regrip. Sometimes it doesn't delay me but other times it does slightly.


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## Shaky Hands (Mar 9, 2017)

kbrune said:


> Do you always handle a flipped edge like that? Or is it situational depending on where you hands are.
> 
> I liked yours and may use it to avoid regrip. I always do this. D R D' F. All with my right hand. The R and F are done with my index while I wrist turn D back and forth. It's pretty fast which is why I always use it. But there's always a regrip. Sometimes it doesn't delay me but other times it does slightly.



Usually I deal with a flipped edge while building the cross, but sometimes like in this cross there was a lot easily inserted from the off. I do like D R D' F though and have used it at times. In this solve F2 U' mini-sledge was just what my brain said to do for whatever reason.

EDIT: I get a lot of F2 practice with my comedy U-perms (F2 U M' U2 M U F2 & F2 U' M' U2 M U' F2).


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## One Wheel (Mar 9, 2017)

kbrune said:


> I always do this. D R D' F. All with my right hand. The R and F are done with my index while I wrist turn D back and forth. It's pretty fast which is why I always use it. But there's always a regrip. Sometimes it doesn't delay me but other times it does slightly.



I almost always do D and D' with my left ring finger. I would finger trick D R D' F with
D left ring push
R wrist turn
D' left ring pull
F right thumb push down.


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## kbrune (Mar 9, 2017)

Shaky Hands said:


> Usually I deal with a flipped edge while building the cross, but sometimes like in this cross there was a lot easily inserted from the off. I do like D R D' F though and have used it at times. In this solve F2 U' mini-sledge was just what my brain said to do for whatever reason.
> 
> EDIT: I get a lot of F2 practice with my comedy U-perms (F2 U M' U2 M U F2 & F2 U' M' U2 M U' F2).




Yeah same. I mostly deal with flipped edges during optimal cross. But sometimes I'll just let one edge be flipped and do my 4 move quickly and try to use it for look ahead time

P.S. I can not figure out how to execute those U perms without about 5 regrips lol



One Wheel said:


> I almost always do D and D' with my left ring finger. I would finger trick D R D' F with
> D left ring push
> R wrist turn
> D' left ring pull
> F right thumb push down.




I like that. I can't do the thumb down part. I'll have to practice and possibly introduce it in the future.


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## mark49152 (Mar 9, 2017)

kbrune said:


> Do you always handle a flipped edge like that? Or is it situational depending on where you hands are.
> 
> I liked yours and may use it to avoid regrip. I always do this. D R D' F.


I would do D R u' R.


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## Shaky Hands (Mar 9, 2017)

kbrune said:


> P.S. I can not figure out how to execute those U perms without about 5 regrips lol



My U-perms don't come with a recommendation, I assure you! That's why I call them comedy U-perms. They're just the first one I learned (or a slight variation on them.) I actually use my proximal inter-phalangeal joint (erm, one up from the knuckles) during part of the execution. I'm not planning on updating existing algs until I've finished learning OLL, but these and many others will be under review.


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## kbrune (Mar 9, 2017)

@Shaky Hands
I know what you mean. I used R2 U' F B' R2 F' B U' R2 and R2 U F B' R2 F' B U R2
for a long time because they were the first ones I learned. They can be fast but pretty difficult to pull off.


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## mark49152 (Mar 9, 2017)

kbrune said:


> @Shaky Hands
> I know what you mean. I used R2 U' F B' R2 F' B U' R2 and R2 U F B' R2 F' B U R2
> for a long time because they were the first ones I learned. They can be fast but pretty difficult to pull off.


They are actually nicer than they look...


----------



## SenorJuan (Mar 9, 2017)

Quote:"Shaky Hands said:

x2 y // inspection
R L F2 U' R' F R // cross"

I would sort out the flipped edge during the insertion of the other two, like:

L F' R U F2

With it being 3/4 of an easy cross, there should be time to work out a trick to get the flipped edge sorted.


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## Shaky Hands (Mar 9, 2017)

SenorJuan said:


> L F' R U F2



That's nice. Good spot.

I tend to use any surplus inspection time trying to look ahead into my first pair rather than improve a cross I've already found. I don't really solve 3x3 often enough these days though, so plenty of moves I could save I'm sure, especially on cross.


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## mafergut (Mar 9, 2017)

I would have done the cross exactly as @SenorJuan has indicated but in this case with a slight modification to save the xcross:

L F' R U L F2 L'

It was also easy to plan where the green-orange pair would end up, as it was stuck in the BL slot and the L move would bring it to the top. In fact I can't remember another cross or xcross where all the pairs could be so easily tracked during inspection. I wouldn't know which one to choose as 2nd pair, probably the blue-orange, which can be easily inserted in the back without any rotation.

Also, @mark49152 I'm more and more impressed with your BLD skills, sir! I have seen you perform very fast 4BLD attempts but this MBLD 10/12 (you deserved the 11/12) leaves me speechless. Congratulations!

Congratulations also to all the other good solves and new PBs (@muchacho, David, you're now faster than me at 3x3 ).

My only highlights today are:
- Slightly improved 5x5 PBs (all but single this time) with running Ao100 finally sub 2:45 and Ao5 closer and closer to sub 2:30 (2:31.07) and very, very consistent again: (2:40.23), 2:31.27, 2:30.32, 2:31.61, (2:28.10).
- With cold hands, second solve of the day, I got my second sub 1min 4x4 single, not PB (that 55 is going to be hard to beat) but nice anyway: 59.09.


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## pipkiksass (Mar 9, 2017)

Thanks all for the positivity. I maintain that people don't beat cancer, nurses, doctors, and poison beats cancer. All I had to do was not die!

@JohnnyReggae - will definitely be doing a WuQue M. Just need to order me some magnets. I'm ashamed to say that they would still arrive tomorrow if I ordered them at 7pm. Sorry dude!

I managed to keep my rolling Ao100 below 18 for ages today. It kept popping up to 18.0x, then going back down again. Didn't manage to beat my PB though, think I was trying too hard. Time to put the timer away for a few days, I think. Definitely sub-18.5 globally now. That's a decent improvement from 21.25 Ao50 when I started up cubing again in October.


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## mafergut (Mar 9, 2017)

pipkiksass said:


> Thanks all for the positivity. I maintain that people don't beat cancer, nurses, doctors, and poison beats cancer. All I had to do was not die!
> 
> @JohnnyReggae - will definitely be doing a WuQue M. Just need to order me some magnets. I'm ashamed to say that they would still arrive tomorrow if I ordered them at 7pm. Sorry dude!
> 
> I managed to keep my rolling Ao100 below 18 for ages today. It kept popping up to 18.0x, then going back down again. Didn't manage to beat my PB though, think I was trying too hard. Time to put the timer away for a few days, I think. Definitely sub-18.5 globally now. That's a decent improvement from 21.25 Ao50 when I started up cubing again in October.



How could I forget to give you my best wishes for a long and prosper life after your recovery! And full of cubing, as well. My apologies.

And regarding magnetic cubes, I don't have the time or maybe the willpower to start a project to make some myself but I'm pretty envious of those Valk Ms and WuQue Ms.


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## newtonbase (Mar 9, 2017)

mafergut said:


> And regarding magnetic cubes, I don't have the time or maybe the willpower to start a project to make some myself but I'm pretty envious of those Valk Ms and WuQue Ms.


It's not that hard to do. I really enjoy it. I'll make a hints and tips video one day.


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## mark49152 (Mar 9, 2017)

mafergut said:


> Also, @mark49152 I'm more and more impressed with your BLD skills, sir! I have seen you perform very fast 4BLD attempts but this MBLD 10/12 (you deserved the *12*/12) leaves me speechless. Congratulations!


FTFY . Thanks for the kind words!


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## pglewis (Mar 9, 2017)

Shaky Hands said:


> EDIT: I get a lot of F2 practice with my comedy U-perms (F2 U M' U2 M U F2 & F2 U' M' U2 M U' F2).



I still use an oddball rotated version I came up with because my F2s were particularly bad at the time and I used a lot more U perms when I was 2-looking PLL: R2 U S' U2 S U R2. Same for both U perms, bar always on the left, the U turns just reverse for the other one. It's one of my faster perms despite the S slices, I'm just used to them .


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## mafergut (Mar 9, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> It's not that hard to do. I really enjoy it. I'll make a hints and tips video one day.


I might reconsider after watching your video! 



mark49152 said:


> FTFY . Thanks for the kind words!


Of course. My mistake! I just meant to say that cube #2 was a pity and you deserved to get it right, after realising you had forgotten parity, going back to it and all that. But for sure you deserved a 12/12 

A very nice 12.56 I just got with super-easy x-cross + 2nd pair planned in inspection.

1. 12.56 B2 D2 L2 B' L2 F R2 B' L2 B U' F U' F R2 B2 L' R

Reconstruction:

z2 // Inspection
L' U R' F' // X-cross + pair F2L#2
y U R U' R' // Insert F2L#2
L' U L2 U' L' // F2L#3
y' U R U' R' // F2L#4
R U R' U' x D' R' U R U' D x' // OLL
F-perm // PLL


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## One Wheel (Mar 9, 2017)

mafergut said:


> And regarding magnetic cubes, I don't have the time or maybe the willpower to start a project to make some myself but I'm pretty envious of those Valk Ms and WuQue Ms.



I second what @newtonbase said. When you take everything apart it looks like a lot of fiddly pieces, but it doesn't take nearly as long as you'd think. I've done 2 3x3s now, and I'll get to a bigger cube soon. My last 3x3 was probably a 1 1/2 hour job, maybe less. Just use the first couple of magnets you place to set the position and polarity of the rest.


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## newtonbase (Mar 9, 2017)

One Wheel said:


> I second what @newtonbase said. When you take everything apart it looks like a lot of fiddly pieces, but it doesn't take nearly as long as you'd think. I've done 2 3x3s now, and I'll get to a bigger cube soon. My last 3x3 was probably a 1 1/2 hour job, maybe less. Just use the first couple of magnets you place to set the position and polarity of the rest.


My best was about 35 mins but I have a quicker system now. I've tried to make it as efficient as possible due to kids.


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## h2f (Mar 9, 2017)

mafergut said:


> I would have done the cross exactly as @SenorJuan has indicated but in this case with a slight modification to save the xcross:
> 
> L F' R U L F2 L'



Very nice. I would do 
x2 y // inspection
L F' D R' D' R2
but it was planned on alg.cubing.net without a cube in hand. L F' is easy to fingertrick.


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## kbrune (Mar 9, 2017)

@mark49152 

How often did you practice Mbld? What type of prwctice? Gradually increasing cube count? Or was it large amounts only? 

Time hasn't been on my side. I'm finding it difficult to find a full uninterrupted hour for attempts


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## mark49152 (Mar 10, 2017)

kbrune said:


> How often did you practice Mbld? What type of prwctice? Gradually increasing cube count? Or was it large amounts only?


I do mostly 4-cube attempts, and will only do a large attempt once or twice between comps to test myself. Since 4 is my block size, I have a pretty good idea how fast I need to be at one block when shooting for a one hour target. For a 12 cube attempt I was trying to get my 4-cube block under 10 mins memo/review, 5 mins exec. My block memo deadlines for a 12-cube attempt are then 12, 25 and 40 minutes, with interval increasing to allow time to recap earlier blocks. I have a spreadsheet to work it all out. As Maskow has said, MBLD is all about timekeeping.


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## newtonbase (Mar 10, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> I do mostly 4-cube attempts, and will only do a large attempt once or twice between comps to test myself. Since 4 is my block size, I have a pretty good idea how fast I need to be at one block when shooting for a one hour target. For a 12 cube attempt I was trying to get my 4-cube block under 10 mins memo/review, 5 mins exec. My block memo deadlines for a 12-cube attempt are then 12, 25 and 40 minutes, with interval increasing to allow time to recap earlier blocks. I have a spreadsheet to work it all out. As Maskow has said, MBLD is all about timekeeping.


That's interesting. I'm not terribly far off that time wise. Just need to get rid of the silly mistakes.And learn comma properly. And find more time to practice.
Do you vary your rooms in practice?


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## mark49152 (Mar 10, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> That's interesting. I'm not terribly far off that time wise. Just need to get rid of the silly mistakes......
> Do you vary your rooms in practice?


Yes accuracy is important. The point of practising that way is to get your system ingrained and running like clockwork, and the system must put accuracy first. I get about 70% 4/4s and never less than 3/4. Average about 14 mins.

Do you do reviews? After I have memoed the block I will go back over them again and check my memo against the cubes to make sure there are no mistakes. Plus that repetition is the key to making it stick. That GCC at Peterborough shows I must have got sloppy in the review - recall problems are common enough, but reviews mean I very rarely get the memo wrong.

I have enough rooms for 20 cubes and I cycle through all of them to keep them practised. Same rooms for BigBLD and 3BLD.


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## Logiqx (Mar 10, 2017)

pipkiksass said:


> I have a PB on amount of cancer had - currently zero (less is better), was previously lots. Got the all-clear from my doc on Monday afternoon.
> ...
> Back to work Monday. Boo!



That's great news, congratulations.

Going back to work will be a shock to the system, commiserations!


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## JohnnyReggae (Mar 10, 2017)

pipkiksass said:


> @JohnnyReggae - will definitely be doing a WuQue M. Just need to order me some magnets. I'm ashamed to say that they would still arrive tomorrow if I ordered them at 7pm. Sorry dude!


 I should throw some four word expletives your way ....  ... I only wish we could get postal delivery like that.


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## JohnnyReggae (Mar 10, 2017)

mafergut said:


> And regarding magnetic cubes, I don't have the time or maybe the willpower to start a project to make some myself but I'm pretty envious of those Valk Ms and WuQue Ms.


To be honest it's not that hard or time consuming. The gluing can be done in around and hour or two, and then it's just a wait for everything to dry, usually overnight for me.


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## newtonbase (Mar 10, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> Yes accuracy is important. The point of practising that way is to get your system ingrained and running like clockwork, and the system must put accuracy first. I get about 70% 4/4s and never less than 3/4. Average about 14 mins.
> 
> Do you do reviews? After I have memoed the block I will go back over them again and check my memo against the cubes to make sure there are no mistakes. Plus that repetition is the key to making it stick. That GCC at Peterborough shows I must have got sloppy in the review - recall problems are common enough, but reviews mean I very rarely get the memo wrong.
> 
> I have enough rooms for 20 cubes and I cycle through all of them to keep them practised. Same rooms for BigBLD and 3BLD.


I don't check that the memo is correct, only that I can recall it. I'll only look back at the cube if I struggle with it. Clearly I need to make a change here. 



JohnnyReggae said:


> To be honest it's not that hard or time consuming. The gluing can be done in around and hour or two, and then it's just a wait for everything to dry, usually overnight for me.


I use the cubes pretty much straight away but I do use pretty fast drying superglue. Which do you use?


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## JohnnyReggae (Mar 10, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> I use the cubes pretty much straight away but I do use pretty fast drying superglue. Which do you use?


I've been using the Gorilla brand which I bought from a local hardware store quite a while ago. I've just finished that and moved onto a similar type of super glue with a thinner viscosity, some local brand as that is all the hardware store had at the time. They both seemed to do the job well. I have found that even 2 hrs after gluing that there are still some, well not quite wet, but certainly not dried enough.

I'm usually doing all this late at night as it's the only time I have for it so I usually just leave everything out overnight to dry. Assemble the next during the day somewhere which is usually relatively quick, even the 4x4 if you leave the core intact when dissembling.


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## newtonbase (Mar 10, 2017)

JohnnyReggae said:


> I've been using the Gorilla brand which I bought from a local hardware store quite a while ago. I've just finished that and moved onto a similar type of super glue with a thinner viscosity, some local brand as that is all the hardware store had at the time. They both seemed to do the job well. I have found that even 2 hrs after gluing that there are still some, well not quite wet, but certainly not dried enough.
> 
> I'm usually doing all this late at night as it's the only time I have for it so I usually just leave everything out overnight to dry. Assemble the next during the day somewhere which is usually relatively quick, even the 4x4 if you leave the core intact when dissembling.


I use the Gorilla gel superglue or the Loctite one. Maybe I should leave them. I usually do them late at night too so it wouldn't be an issue as long as the kids don't get hold of the pieces.


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## mark49152 (Mar 10, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> I don't check that the memo is correct, only that I can recall it. I'll only look back at the cube if I struggle with it. Clearly I need to make a change here.


Yeah I would definitely recommend reviewing against the cube. I check my recall first then trace it on the cube checking for incorrect or missing targets, target count and missing flipped or twisted pieces, forgetting to switch M slice targets, etc. First memo usually takes me 1.5 mins per cube then I'll spend another 1 min per cube on the review.


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## newtonbase (Mar 10, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> Yeah I would definitely recommend reviewing against the cube. I check my recall first then trace it on the cube checking for incorrect or missing targets, target count and missing flipped or twisted pieces, forgetting to switch M slice targets, etc. First memo usually takes me 1.5 mins per cube then I'll spend another 1 min per cube on the review.


I've been focusing too much on making sure that I get the recall right as I've thought of that as the hardest part but in practice I make very few errors on it. There's the odd error from lack of concentration during execution and I haven't had a slip since I switched to magnetic cubes. Memo is definitely the biggest culprit. 
Thanks for the advice.


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## mafergut (Mar 10, 2017)

I was going to make an unboxing video but then I got lazy. Here is a snapshot of my new toy:


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## kbrune (Mar 10, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> Yeah I would definitely recommend reviewing against the cube. I check my recall first then trace it on the cube checking for incorrect or missing targets, target count and missing flipped or twisted pieces, forgetting to switch M slice targets, etc. First memo usually takes me 1.5 mins per cube then I'll spend another 1 min per cube on the review.


@newtonbase
Since we were on the topic.

I read that bit about reviewing and checking memo against cubes last night. So I got excited about practice today. I had time for a 4 cube attempt. I got 2/4 in 28:01. Slower then I thought I'd do but that's ok. My mbld system isn't quite ingrained yet. Also, coming up with scenes is still slow for me.

Cube 2, memoed an extra target. Don't know how. But I did. 

Cube 4. Completely forgot to memo corners!! I started solving right after edge memo.

Moral of the story.. when you read advice from others. Frikkin use it!! Lol
Reviewing against the cube would have most likely avoided both errors!!


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## newtonbase (Mar 10, 2017)

kbrune said:


> [
> Moral of the story.. when you read advice from others. Frikkin use it!! Lol
> Reviewing against the cube would have most likely avoided both errors!!


Agreed. We just need to do what @mark49152 tells us to do.


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## newtonbase (Mar 10, 2017)

mafergut said:


> I was going to make an unboxing video but then I got lazy. Here is a snapshot of my new toy:
> 
> View attachment 7643


That's lovely.


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## mark49152 (Mar 10, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> Agreed. We just need to do what @mark49152 tells us to do.


That's what I keep saying at home but nobody listens .


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## kbrune (Mar 10, 2017)

mafergut said:


> I was going to make an unboxing video but then I got lazy. Here is a snapshot of my new toy:
> 
> View attachment 7643



Have you timed a solve yet?


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## Logiqx (Mar 10, 2017)

kbrune said:


> Have you timed a solve yet?



I was going to ask exactly the same thing.


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## mafergut (Mar 10, 2017)

First solve on the Yuxin 9x9. Relaxed, not wanting to pop the thing  Took approx. 45-50 minutes. It turns really nicely but monsters this size are definitely not speedsolvable. Centers took like 34min, the rest is easy peasy. I enjoyed it a lot but I don't think I'll be getting anything bigger than this anytime soon.

EDIT: Fun fact, I just posted this before reading @kbrune and @Logiqx comments


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## kbrune (Mar 10, 2017)

I think everyone should get a 20x20 and then we have our own race to sub 60.. minutes!

Would be fun


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## newtonbase (Mar 10, 2017)

kbrune said:


> I think everyone should get a 20x20 and then we have our own race to sub 60.. minutes!
> 
> Would be fun


60 hours?


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## mafergut (Mar 10, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> 60 hours?


More like it [emoji3] 
I think for me an 11x11 would be more than enough of a challenge for sub 1 hour

Sent from Tapatalk


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## pipkiksass (Mar 10, 2017)

mafergut said:


> More like it [emoji3]
> I think for me an 11x11 would be more than enough of a challenge for sub 1 hour
> 
> Sent from Tapatalk


I solved my brother's V Cube 7 in about 2 hours on Boxing Day. But it was my first ever attempt at 7x7, and it turns like a Rubik's brand, so have some sympathy!!


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## kbrune (Mar 10, 2017)

My wife just told me to stay away from this thread. When I showed her how much the 8 through 13 that I've been wanting to add to my collection costs.

@mafergut

Where did you get your 9x9?


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## mafergut (Mar 11, 2017)

kbrune said:


> My wife just told me to stay away from this thread. When I showed her how much the 8 through 13 that I've been wanting to add to my collection costs.
> 
> @mafergut
> 
> Where did you get your 9x9?


I can relate. I had to promise not to ever even think about getting a 13x13. I got my 9x9 at Magic Cube Mall with a nice discount. It was like $50 or so including shipping. I decided to skip 8x8 as I like odd layered cubes more.

I enjoyed solving it but I don't think I need to buy them all. It takes progressively longer to solve and it's just the same method over and over. Same reason why I got the SS Gigaminx but I don't plan on getting the master kilominx or the new teraminx.

Sent from Tapatalk


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## phreaker (Mar 11, 2017)

mafergut said:


> I can relate. I had to promise not to ever even think about getting a 13x13. I got my 9x9 at Magic Cube Mall with a nice discount. It was like $50 or so including shipping. I decided to skip 8x8 as I like odd layered cubes more.
> 
> I enjoyed solving it but I don't think I need to buy them all. It takes progressively longer to solve and it's just the same method over and over. Same reason why I got the SS Gigaminx but I don't plan on getting the master kilominx or the new teraminx.



I'll admit, y'all amuse me on this one. My wife supports this hobby because she realizes how much WORSE, I could get into .

"At least it isn't one of the other N hobbies where I could REALLY burn money!"


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## mafergut (Mar 11, 2017)

phreaker said:


> I'll admit, y'all amuse me on this one. My wife supports this hobby because she realizes how much WORSE, I could get into .
> 
> "At least it isn't one of the other N hobbies where I could REALLY burn money!"


You mean something like sports cars, for example? [emoji3] 

Sent from Tapatalk


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## phreaker (Mar 11, 2017)

mafergut said:


> You mean something like sports cars, for example? [emoji3]



Sports cars would qualify, but really.. what good is a sports car if you don't take it to track day. .

I doubt sports cars are even close to the worst I could come up with, that people would consider 100% normal. Cubes are cheap, and we spend a ton of time with them.  Honestly.. they are a cheap hobby, that is pretty wholesome overall.


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## newtonbase (Mar 11, 2017)

mafergut said:


> You mean something like sports cars, for example? [emoji3]
> 
> Sent from Tapatalk





phreaker said:


> Sports cars would qualify, but really.. what good is a sports car if you don't take it to track day. .
> 
> I doubt sports cars are even close to the worst I could come up with, that people would consider 100% normal. Cubes are cheap, and we spend a ton of time with them.  Honestly.. they are a cheap hobby, that is pretty wholesome overall.


Right. Next time the wife looks at me funny for doing anything cubing related I'll suggest that I switch my hobby to racing cars (or smoking crack).


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## phreaker (Mar 11, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> Right. Next time the wife looks at me funny for doing anything cubing related I'll suggest that I switch my hobby to racing cars (or smoking crack).



Oh there's so many... you don't need crack. Going to a strip club with the boys would be SO much more provocative .


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## newtonbase (Mar 11, 2017)

phreaker said:


> Oh there's so many... you don't need crack. Going to a strip club with the boys would be SO much more provocative .


That could be incorporated into a competition weekend quite easily!


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## pglewis (Mar 11, 2017)

phreaker said:


> Sports cars would qualify, but really.. what good is a sports car if you don't take it to track day. .
> 
> I doubt sports cars are even close to the worst I could come up with, that people would consider 100% normal. Cubes are cheap, and we spend a ton of time with them.  Honestly.. they are a cheap hobby, that is pretty wholesome overall.



While I don't know first-hand it's my understanding that a boat is "a hole in the water into which you pour money", as well. 



pipkiksass said:


> I managed to keep my rolling Ao100 below 18 for ages today. It kept popping up to 18.0x, then going back down again. Didn't manage to beat my PB though, think I was trying too hard. Time to put the timer away for a few days, I think. Definitely sub-18.5 globally now. That's a decent improvement from 21.25 Ao50 when I started up cubing again in October.



Well done, it has been a lot of fun for me watching others improve as well. I discovered this thread in late Sept and my Ao12 was mid to high 40s and single PB was 34. Mid to high 40s is a serious mistake solve now and a 34 single is average to on the slow side... I've dropped about 12 seconds since and still plenty of low-hanging fruit for improvement. And I've successfully done a few blindfolded solves, which I would have told you was entirely impossible for me back in Sept. Y'all have taught me to re-evaluate "possible".


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## newtonbase (Mar 12, 2017)

pglewis said:


> While I don't know first-hand it's my understanding that a boat is "a hole in the water into which you pour money", as well.


Now there's a thought. Where I live is as far from the sea as you can get in England. I'd love a canal boat though and the wife knows it. That would be a real threat!


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## mark49152 (Mar 12, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> I'd love a canal boat though and the wife knows it. That would be a real threat!


I once suggested we should live on one. That went down well


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## newtonbase (Mar 12, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> I once suggested we should live on one. That went down well


They start thinking about toilets. You're never going to win after that.


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## mark49152 (Mar 12, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> They start thinking about toilets. You're never going to win after that.


Spot on. I once suggested we hike up a mountain. "Are there toilets up there?"


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## JanW (Mar 12, 2017)

pglewis said:


> While I don't know first-hand it's my understanding that a boat is "a hole in the water into which you pour money", as well.


I actually love sailing. If you live too far away from the sea, you can simulate the experience by standing clothes on in a cold shower while ripping $100 bills.


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## phreaker (Mar 12, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> That could be incorporated into a competition weekend quite easily!



All new meaning to "personal best", never mind an AO5.


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## mafergut (Mar 12, 2017)

Hey guys, if you want a nice scramble on white cross please pay a visit to my Race to sub-15 thread and check the 5th scramble of this week's average. And, why not, all of you that are already sub-20 are invited to participate, of course (and the ones that aren't ).


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## pglewis (Mar 13, 2017)

Closer. This one did get a "YES!" and clap of the hands. Rare OLL skip, no idea what the PLL was, I was in shock at the time.


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## newtonbase (Mar 13, 2017)

I see that there's quite a few Oldies registered for the World Championships already. 

Finally got 4/4 in a very slow 31:22 (+2). Spotted a mistake in the memo review @mark49152! Nothing was going in but I stuck at it. That's a 2017 goal out of the way. On to 5 cubes now.


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## mark49152 (Mar 13, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> Finally got 4/4 in a very slow 31:22 (+2). Spotted a mistake in the memo review @mark49152! Nothing was going in but I stuck at it. That's a 2017 goal out of the way. On to 5 cubes now.


Nice job, congrats


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## phreaker (Mar 13, 2017)

New PB for 3x3: 44.025 (OH). Times seem to be coming down.

At this point my OH and non OH times are probably off ~3-4s in favor of non.. at the most. So I tend to practice OH .


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## mafergut (Mar 13, 2017)

Hi guys. Looking for some new 3x3 that are available in stickerless. Not that I don't like my Valk3 but I would like to try something else as I think I catch a bit at times. Maybe the Yan3? Other recommendations? A Windmirror would probably come with the order. Isn't it a nice little puzzle? [emoji3]

Sent from Tapatalk


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## phreaker (Mar 13, 2017)

mafergut said:


> Hi guys. Looking for some new 3x3 that are available in stickerless. Not that I don't like my Valk3 but I would like to try something else as I think I catch a bit at times. Maybe the Yan3? Other recommendations? A Windmirror would probably come with the order. Isn't it a nice little puzzle? [emoji3]



Have you used a GAN cube before? If so what did you think of which one?


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## mafergut (Mar 13, 2017)

phreaker said:


> Have you used a GAN cube before? If so what did you think of which one?


I have a 357 which I don't particularly like. Not wanting to here the advice of "if you didn't like previous GAN cubes don't buy the Air" I got an Air and, not surprisingly, I don't like it. It also does not come in stickerless. Not sure what it is I don't like of it but I don't get my times on it so that's a clear no go.

Sent from Tapatalk


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## phreaker (Mar 13, 2017)

mafergut said:


> I have a 357 which I don't particularly like. Not wanting to here the advice of "if you didn't like previous GAN cubes don't buy the Air" I got an Air and, not surprisingly, I don't like it. It also does not come in stickerless. Not sure what it is I don't like of it but I don't get my times on it so that's a clear no go.



I tend to believe that GAN cubes show a clear line from the 357 -> 356 -> 356 AIR. They improve along the way, but there's a feeling they give that other cubes tend not to.

What cubes have you liked?

Cubes I like that are stickerless: Yuexiao, Thunderclap V1, Aolong V1, The Valk. No idea on the Yan 3. I haven't heard enough about it to make me want to get it. The Valk is good enough for me 99% of the time.

Do you know why you are catching on your Valk?


----------



## mafergut (Mar 13, 2017)

To be honest I think my catching problems come from squared corners and the fact that it does not retain well its cube shape, plus the small size

Sent from Tapatalk


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## phreaker (Mar 13, 2017)

Do you have a Thunderclap V1 and/or Aolong V2?

Those are the type of cubes that would avoid tha issue. Maybe a Weilong GTS?


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## JanW (Mar 13, 2017)

mafergut said:


> Hi guys. Looking for some new 3x3 that are available in stickerless. Not that I don't like my Valk3 but I would like to try something else as I think I catch a bit at times. Maybe the Yan3? Other recommendations? A Windmirror would probably come with the order. Isn't it a nice little puzzle? [emoji3]


I still use the stickerless MoJue M3 as my main. I like it a lot more than the Valk3. A lot more than any of my other cubes for that matter. I think the Weilong GTS in my second favorite, but unfortunately it doesn't come in stickerless.


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## newtonbase (Mar 13, 2017)

mafergut said:


> To be honest I think my catching problems come from squared corners and the fact that it does not retain well its cube shape, plus the small size
> 
> Sent from Tapatalk


Loosen it and add magnets!


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## mafergut (Mar 13, 2017)

Yeah, I should probably go for a magnetized 3x3 but I don't want to spend $50 on one and I'm not sure about doing it myself. The MoJue M3 is another option that I had not considered. And regarding @phreaker advice about non-squared corners cubes... well, I have both a Thunderclap v1 and an Aolong v2 and also a Weilong GTS but the GTS is too unstable and the other two feel a bit... dated? I would have to go back to them and try. At least the Thunderclap v1 can be bought in stickerless.

Not sure if the issues with squared corners catching will be present with all other cubes or a more stable one would avoid them while also preventing corner twists.

Oh, and I did some solves with my GAN 356 Air and now I remember why I hate is so much. It does not catch like the Valk but it, instead, turns in unexpected directions if not accurate and also, at times, it rebounds quite strongly when cutting significant angles. All in all I'm terribly inconsistent with it. I can get very nice times but also terrible ones. It happens to me with this cube something that I haven't experienced with any other. OLL/PLL algs that apparently were correctly executed but end up with a messed up cube, because at some point the cube turned wrong and I barely felt it (maybe it just cut on the wrong direction or something like that, I really don't know). Maybe it's just me turning very inaccurately.


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## pglewis (Mar 13, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> I see that there's quite a few Oldies registered for the World Championships already.
> 
> Finally got 4/4 in a very slow 31:22 (+2). Spotted a mistake in the memo review @mark49152! Nothing was going in but I stuck at it. That's a 2017 goal out of the way. On to 5 cubes now.



Yes, I knew it was comin'! Congrats and looking forward to the next plateau.



mafergut said:


> Hi guys. Looking for some new 3x3 that are available in stickerless. Not that I don't like my Valk3 but I would like to try something else as I think I catch a bit at times. Maybe the Yan3? Other recommendations? A Windmirror would probably come with the order. Isn't it a nice little puzzle?



Valk3 stickerless is still my "main". I usually rotate through 7 or 8 cubes while practicing... but if I'm specifically out to set an aoX or at comp I'm reaching for the Valk right now; it's the most reliably predictable for me despite a few flaws. Everyone's take on cubes is different but here's my current opinions on the stickerless ones I have:

* Aolong V2: my first stickerless and has a lot of hours on it. Known for being a little prone to corner twists, though I don't turn roughly enough to see that happen often. Feels somewhat heavy to me compared to the more recently designed cubes. Mine has not been in the active rotation for a while and would need some setup tweaking to evaluate fresh. Shades are on the darkish side, which I find good for recognition and not so great for poor lighting.

* X-Man Tornado: I think this is one of @Selkie's favorites. Kinda reminiscent of the Aolong V2 to me but feels lighter and more refined. My opinion of this one keeps shifting, I think it needs some setup and break-in before it's really doing its thing and the tensions seem to have a small-ish "butter zone" to find. That said, I'm beginning to warm up to it. Shades are excellent, very close to Valk shades.

* MF3R: Very light, very fast but I find the speed controllable (again, I'm not a very rough turner). If you find the Valk3 catchy then this one is likely to be a little worse (another squared corner design). I got my 22.20 PB with it but beaten by the Valk with a mid 21 last night. Shades are very good and close to the Valk, yellow isn't fluro and red is a little brighter.

* Thunderclap V1: Still not as joy-inducing as either of my black ones but it's coming around. The plastic feels softer to me than its stickered cousins. Mine wasn't setup much to my liking out of the box but it's a Thunderclap; they're very tweakable cubes. I think some break-in has helped it too, starting to warm up to it more. It landed my 23.0 during my single PB-fest the past couple weeks. Colors are more "washed out" vs. the Valk, non-fluro yellow and a green on the pea-green side.


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## phreaker (Mar 13, 2017)

mafergut said:


> Yeah, I should probably go for a magnetized 3x3 but I don't want to spend $50 on one and I'm not sure about doing it myself. The MoJue M3 is another option that I had not considered. And regarding @phreaker advice about non-squared corners cubes... well, I have both a Thunderclap v1 and an Aolong v2 and also a Weilong GTS but the GTS is too unstable and the other two feel a bit... dated? I would have to go back to them and try. At least the Thunderclap v1 can be bought in stickerless.
> 
> Not sure if the issues with squared corners catching will be present with all other cubes or a more stable one would avoid them while also preventing corner twists.
> 
> Oh, and I did some solves with my GAN 356 Air and now I remember why I hate is so much. It does not catch like the Valk but it, instead, turns in unexpected directions if not accurate and also, at times, it rebounds quite strongly when cutting significant angles. All in all I'm terribly inconsistent with it. I can get very nice times but also terrible ones. It happens to me with this cube something that I haven't experienced with any other. OLL/PLL algs that apparently were correctly executed but end up with a messed up cube, because at some point the cube turned wrong and I barely felt it (maybe it just cut on the wrong direction or something like that, I really don't know). Maybe it's just me turning very inaccurately.



The Gans AIR cuts SO easily, it is easy to make mistakes with. It is insane what that cibe will do. I actually dislike how easy it cuts because you get no warning on an absurd cut. And by the time you try to do a cut you shouldn't.. there was no warning.

I like the AIR UM because I tend not to make absurd cuts with it... leaving only the nice smooth cutting and turning.

I like The Valk. If you don't like the hollowed corners, most modern designs won't be to your liking.

My personal favorite cubes in order: The Valk M, Gans Air UM, The Valk, Gans AIR, Gans 356, Yuexiao, Weilong GTS. TC v1. Dayan Zhanchi 42mm.

(This is in the order I reach for them in my box... I may prefer the Yuexiao, a bit more... but it is very Valk like.)


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## Logiqx (Mar 13, 2017)

Good to see this thread is busy as usual. Nice progress everyone!

News from my end:
- I've registered for Worlds and booked my travel + accommodation. Hopefully I'll see some of you guys in Paris!
- I've added some additional 4LLL alg sets to my website; OLL+PLL, CLL+ELL, CPEOLL+2GLL, LLEF+L4C
- One of my team has properly caught the cubing bug. A few of the others still solve it casually


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## pglewis (Mar 13, 2017)

pglewis said:


> Aolong V2 [...] Mine has not been in the active rotation for a while and would need some setup tweaking to evaluate fresh.



Of course, after taking it off the shelf I had to do some solves and dial the tensions in. Now I'm putting it back into the rotation after a fairly long absence.


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## JohnnyReggae (Mar 14, 2017)

pglewis said:


> Of course, after taking it off the shelf I had to do some solves and dial the tensions in. Now I'm putting it back into the rotation after a fairly long absence.


I pull my Aolong V2 out of the draw fairly often these days. I always pleasantly surprised at how well it does turn and how nice it feels in the hands. It's also done over 13000 solves so it is well worn in.


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## mitja (Mar 14, 2017)

Hi,
I haven't posted in this thread for a while, even though by the title I definitely fit in. Do you all have problems with Wuque corner twist? I have about 10 4x4 cubes but this is my first to cornertwist. It is a great cube, ( I wish for 60mm ), but the unpredicted twists are a surprise.


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## mark49152 (Mar 14, 2017)

mitja said:


> Do you all have problems with Wuque corner twist?


Yes mine twists, but not as often as 3x3s with that problem. It's the only 4x4 I've ever known to corner twist.


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## David Zemdegs (Mar 14, 2017)

I'm now officially registered for the World championships! Should be able to get a PB with all that time to practice on the plane.


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## mitja (Mar 14, 2017)

Ok, I wished mine is defective, but I guess it is not. I have improved my 3x3 times lately, have regular sub 25 Ao12, and somehow now it is easier to solve. The avg improvement in last 2 months was about 7 seconds , just have to prove that at our national comp this weekend. Unfortunately it isnt WCA official, have to wait for Slovenia open in may. 
Now I want to improve my 4x4. Can yo tell me time splits for 1:20-1:30 solution? I usually need 1 minute to reach 3x3 cross stage ( yau solver).


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## mark49152 (Mar 14, 2017)

David Zemdegs said:


> I'm now officially registered for the World championships! Should be able to get a PB with all that time to practice on the plane.


And I guess you have premium access to all those Cubeskills gems


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## newtonbase (Mar 14, 2017)

David Zemdegs said:


> I'm now officially registered for the World championships! Should be able to get a PB with all that time to practice on the plane.


I thought you might have changed your mind as your name wasn't there at first when I was checking on the Oldies.


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## Logiqx (Mar 14, 2017)

mitja said:


> Hi,
> I haven't posted in this thread for a while, even though by the title I definitely fit in. Do you all have problems with Wuque corner twist? I have about 10 4x4 cubes but this is my first to cornertwist. It is a great cube, ( I wish for 60mm ), but the unpredicted twists are a surprise.


Once in several hundred solves. I guess it's a side effect of such great performance during 3x3 stage.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk


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## JohnnyReggae (Mar 14, 2017)

mitja said:


> Hi,
> I haven't posted in this thread for a while, even though by the title I definitely fit in. Do you all have problems with Wuque corner twist? I have about 10 4x4 cubes but this is my first to cornertwist. It is a great cube, ( I wish for 60mm ), but the unpredicted twists are a surprise.


I seem to experience corner twists quite often on the WuQue. Although I have loosened the tensions as I have put magnets into it. But they do seem to occur often.


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## phreaker (Mar 14, 2017)

JohnnyReggae said:


> I seem to experience corner twists quite often on the WuQue. Although I have loosened the tensions as I have put magnets into it. But they do seem to occur often.



Odd, magnets really reduce corner twists in my Valk 3, I wonder why you are twisting that much?


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## pipkiksass (Mar 14, 2017)

mafergut said:


> Hi guys. Looking for some new 3x3 that are available in stickerless. Not that I don't like my Valk3 but I would like to try something else as I think I catch a bit at times. Maybe the Yan3? Other recommendations? A Windmirror would probably come with the order. Isn't it a nice little puzzle? [emoji3]
> 
> Sent from Tapatalk



Dayan Zhanchi. Definitely doesn't suffer from hollow corner issues. Cheap as chips. Capable of being solved in under 6 seconds (former WR cube). Available in stickerless. Feels great, especially if you florian mod it a little.

Oooh, even better - get a Guhong V2 and florian it to hell. There used to be a video about modding Guhongs on the Lubix website (in about 2012)!!!

[emoji6]

Seriously though, kidding/not kidding?!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## mafergut (Mar 14, 2017)

He he he. I already have not one but two Dayan Zhanchi stickerless and, to be honest, I'm no Feliks to solve it in under 6 seconds. Looking for something a bit more recent. [emoji23]

Sent from Tapatalk


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## mitja (Mar 14, 2017)

phreaker said:


> Odd, magnets really reduce corner twists in my Valk 3, I wonder why you are twisting that much?


I think on wuque the twist is different and doesn't occure by the same reason like with aolong v2 or thunderclap. I've got the twists from being inaccurate by speeding, but on Wuque you get twist suddenly by no obvious reason. I guess the cube gets into the position to twist a corner randomly, but not often, like you said about every 100 solves. It also depends how much you tighten it.


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## JohnnyReggae (Mar 15, 2017)

phreaker said:


> Odd, magnets really reduce corner twists in my Valk 3, I wonder why you are twisting that much?





mitja said:


> I think on wuque the twist is different and doesn't occure by the same reason like with aolong v2 or thunderclap. I've got the twists from being inaccurate by speeding, but on Wuque you get twist suddenly by no obvious reason. I guess the cube gets into the position to twist a corner randomly, but not often, like you said about every 100 solves. It also depends how much you tighten it.



I have noticed myself doing it, in that I've felt when I've done a corner twist. The problem is that I'm usually turning quite fast because I can with the magnets so I lose track of which corner it is, so have to wait until the end of the solve to sort it out. I tightened the tension up to not have corner twists, but I just don't like it as it become to sluggish. So I've loosened them again. I'll live with the corner twists, much like I did with the Aolong


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## Shaky Hands (Mar 15, 2017)

I think corner twists are often a case of adjusting to a different cube. I had a Thunderclap v1 that I gave up on after about 100 solves due to lots of twists but the same cube ended up being my main for the better part of a year. I also had the same experience with the Galaxy megaminx, but have adjusted my turning style to deal with it.

As for the Wuque, yes I get the occasional twist, but it pops less for me than the Aosu or the G4 so I'm happy to deal with the occasional Wuque corner twist compared to my experience with those alternatives.


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## pipkiksass (Mar 15, 2017)

I've never had a corner twist on my wuque, but I'm 4x4ing less and less. Didn't touch it in a month, and had a HORRIBLE Ao12. For some reason I seem to be able to neglect 3x3 with impunity, but 4x4 and 5x5 I have to do maintenance practice or I quickly start to suck!!

In other news, 3x3 Ao5 PB just went from 15.23 to 14.97. Was so excited I immediately started writing this post, then realised there was an 18.xy (non-counting), so did one more solve (15.83), which took the rolling Ao5 down to 14.905!







Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## pglewis (Mar 15, 2017)

pipkiksass said:


> In other news, 3x3 Ao5 PB just went from 15.23 to 14.97. Was so excited I immediately started writing this post, then realised there was an 18.xy (non-counting), so did one more solve (15.83), which took the rolling Ao5 down to 14.905!



I'm sitting close to double your times. Averages are coming down and the "wall" on my best solves has come down from high 20s to mid 20s. By my calculations I'm due to land a 17-18 outlier single at any time. That suggests to me there's a high 9 or 10.x outlier in your near future.


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## JohnnyReggae (Mar 16, 2017)

Shaky Hands said:


> As for the Wuque, yes I get the occasional twist, but it pops less for me than the Aosu or the G4 so I'm happy to deal with the occasional Wuque corner twist compared to my experience with those alternatives.


I've found that I seem to be popping the WuQue more than I'd like to. Probably around ever 20 solves or so, sometimes a little less. The Yuxin Blue on the other hand has yet to experience a pop, but I'm still using the WuQue as my main.


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## mark49152 (Mar 16, 2017)

@MarcelP - not sure if you're still active here, but, are you going to Worlds? Would be awesome to finally meet you!


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## Logiqx (Mar 16, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> @MarcelP - not sure if you're still active here, but, are you going to Worlds? Would be awesome to finally meet you!


Seconded!

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk


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## mark49152 (Mar 17, 2017)

Also Grzegorz @h2f, will we see you there? Any other oldie thread regulars going?


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## h2f (Mar 17, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> Also Grzegorz @h2f, will we see you there? Any other oldie thread regulars going?



I wont be on World Championships, Mark (@mark49152). I was hoping it would be in Poland (I know it was close to it) but it didnt happen. Sadly.


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## muchacho (Mar 17, 2017)

OH Mo100 PB: 32.693

It was 33.735 since January, when I said I was going to learn to do CP while inserting the last pair, I didn't, I'll try again now.


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## mafergut (Mar 17, 2017)

A bit off cubing for the most part of the week. Trying to change that during the wekend.

Considering buying a Yan3 from all the recommendations I got for a new 3x3.

I also saw the new CB G6 6x6 but not sure it's worth it (even though it's so cheap that I'm not wasting much if it's not good). Tried again to compare between the WuHua and the Yuxin 6x6 and I definitely get better times with the Yuxin but it's far from perfect. Not that I've solved any of them enough so that they are fully broken in. Got my 1st close call to a sub-6min single so, yeah, I'm still pretty far from comparable 4x4 or 5x5 times (1:15 and 2:30 respectively should give something around 5min, right?).

I also solved my new Mefferts Ghost for the 1st time and it's probably the most difficult 3x3 shapemod I have. I had to take photos to make sure I was orienting the centers right. First layer is more or less easy and last layer as well but 2nd layer is a nightmare to get right... or am I just a patzer?


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## newtonbase (Mar 17, 2017)

mafergut said:


> A bit off cubing for the most part of the week. Trying to change that during the wekend.
> 
> Considering buying a Yan3 from all the recommendations I got for a new 3x3.
> 
> ...


I have a 2x2 Virust which is terribly hard. Your 3x3 must be much harder.


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## mark49152 (Mar 17, 2017)

Been a bit busy recently but have been trying to do a little 3BLD each day. I'm getting more consistent. New PBs of 50.29 single and 1:07.59 average of best 10 out of 20. Accuracy is consistently better than 50%, usually more like 70%. It feels like I might be breaking off my plateau...


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## newtonbase (Mar 17, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> Been a bit busy recently but have been trying to do a little 3BLD each day. I'm getting more consistent. New PBs of 50.29 single and 1:07.59 average of best 10 out of 20. Accuracy is consistently better than 50%, usually more like 70%. It feels like I might be breaking off my plateau...


Very nice. We'll be expecting sub 1 in Paris.


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## mark49152 (Mar 18, 2017)

Something weird happened this week doing 3BLD.

I did a solve and opened my eyes to see corners solved and edges completely scrambled. I think there was only one edge solved. Very unusual to fail so completely!

Then I tried to use M2 sighted to solve it before scrambling again, and noticed, to my bafflement, that the sequence was the reverse of my memo!

Can anyone see what happened?



Spoiler



I had a cycle break about half way through edges, but mistakenly broke into the same cycle again but on opposite stickers. So for the second half of edge execution, I was re-scrambling the ones I'd already solved


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## newtonbase (Mar 18, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> Something weird happened this week doing 3BLD.
> 
> I did a solve and opened my eyes to see corners solved and edges completely scrambled. I think there was only one edge solved. Very unusual to fail so completely!
> 
> ...


Bizarre


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## muchacho (Mar 18, 2017)

Today I've reached 40000 3x3 timed solves, apparently I forgot to make graphs when I reached 35000, maybe I forgot because I barely improved from previous 5000 (less than half a second), this time almost one full second 

  

300 DNFs in total, once per 133 solves... (that improves to 143 if only counting last 10000 solves)

...As always I'll end this post promising that I'll learn full CMLL before I do 5000 more timed solves


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## h2f (Mar 18, 2017)

I'm back from a competition: http://cubecomps.com/live.php?cid=2089&compid=46
Only pb in pyraminx but no cutoff. And again 3 DNF's in 3bld - I think my main problem is a stress: memos were fine but I've made mistakes during cycyles.

And in 2nd round of 3x3 my Valk had a pop - first time ever: 27.xx. In next solve I was still in stress. And only in the last one I've back on track. It looks like next time will be in early May.


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## mark49152 (Mar 18, 2017)

That PB cutoff must be very harsh, Grzegorz, for 10.xx to not be enough...


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## h2f (Mar 18, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> That PB cutoff must be very harsh, Grzegorz, for 10.xx to not be enough...



Yes, you know how it is. In Poland we say: one time you lose, the second time you... lose.


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## mark49152 (Mar 18, 2017)

h2f said:


> Yes, you know how it is. In Poland we say: one time you lose, the second time you... lose.


Come to Worlds and get an average .


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## h2f (Mar 19, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> Come to Worlds and get an average .



I guess cutoffs are bigger than 10 s. And just a moment ago I got 46.15 on this: B2 U B2 U' B2 U' F2 U' B2 U2 F2 B L R D' F R' D2 F' L2 B2 Rw' 

*** whats wrong with me - yesterday 3 DNFs, today home pb.


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## mark49152 (Mar 19, 2017)

h2f said:


> *** whats wrong with me - yesterday 3 DNFs, today home pb.


That seems typical for me too. If I practise hard for an event I'm more likely to screw it up but then do really well as soon as I calm down .

Today, 59.65 ao5 in 4x4 - my first sub-1 average .


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## mafergut (Mar 19, 2017)

Wow that 46.15 is incredible @h2f! Sorry that the comp didn't go well. Next time you'll do... better 

It was long ago that I did any long 3x3 session so I decided to try a full CN Ao50 (for the first time) and got a measly 19.80. At least it's sub-20 but 6 solves over 24 seconds say I'm far from there yet.


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## muchacho (Mar 19, 2017)

18.970 Mo100 PB (previous was 19.442 from a month ago). I guess I'll stick with the Weilong v2, I've improved almost 1 second with it in last 2 months (maybe it's not the cause, but I'm not gonna risk it).



Spoiler



40236 19-mar-2017 17:37:29 00:17.798 B2 U2 R2 D R2 D' R2 B2 U' F2 R' L F D R B2 L U2 B D2 U'
40235 19-mar-2017 17:36:50 00:21.079 U' R2 U2 L2 D L2 D' R2 B2 F2 U2 F U L' U' R L' U' R2 F' L2 U'
40234 19-mar-2017 17:36:02 00:24.686 D B2 R2 F2 L2 D2 F2 D L2 U B2 L D' R B' U2 F' D2 R2 L B
40233 19-mar-2017 17:35:13 00:16.614 B2 D' F2 U' L2 D F2 D2 R2 F2 U F' D' B' D B2 D L' F' L
40232 19-mar-2017 17:34:35 00:17.287 U2 F2 D R2 B2 U2 L2 F2 U F2 U' B' L2 F U2 L U' R2 L' B'
40231 19-mar-2017 17:33:54 00:17.950 B2 F2 D B2 D' F2 R2 L2 D R2 D' F L' D' F2 U' B2 U L' U
40230 19-mar-2017 17:33:14 00:21.254 B2 F2 U' L2 D' B2 U B2 U' B2 U' R' D B R D' L2 D' U' F' U
40229 19-mar-2017 17:32:35 00:19.535 F2 L2 D' B2 F2 R2 B2 U' R2 U2 F2 R' B F R' D2 R2 L B R2 U2
40228 19-mar-2017 17:31:56 00:18.950 R2 L2 D2 L2 D B2 F2 R2 U L2 U' L U2 R' U' F U' R U' F2 D2
40227 19-mar-2017 17:31:23 00:17.703 D R2 F2 D2 R2 D F2 D R2 B2 D R F R2 D2 R' D2 R U2 L D' U
40226 19-mar-2017 17:30:42 00:19.264 D2 L2 U2 L2 D' F2 L2 D' B2 U' L2 F U2 L' F' L2 F' L2 U' B' R
40225 19-mar-2017 17:30:06 00:18.717 U L2 U R2 F2 D' U2 R2 L2 B2 U2 L' D R2 F L F' U2 R' L' D
40224 19-mar-2017 17:29:27 00:18.174 U2 F2 U B2 F2 R2 D2 B2 U' R2 D2 F U2 B' R D2 U2 R2 B D2 F' U'
40223 19-mar-2017 17:28:44 00:20.008 F2 U R2 L2 U' F2 R2 U2 B2 L2 F L B2 D2 F L' B' D B2 R' D'
40222 19-mar-2017 17:27:34 00:18.301 U F2 U2 F2 D' B2 R2 B2 U2 R2 U B' D2 R L' F' L' U' B' F
40221 19-mar-2017 17:26:54 00:17.663 U2 L2 D B2 U R2 D L2 D2 B2 L2 B' F L D' B' R' D R2 B2 R'
40220 19-mar-2017 17:26:16 00:14.182 D2 R2 B2 D L2 U' B2 D U R2 U' F D L2 F R L U F2 R F'
40219 19-mar-2017 17:25:42 00:18.174 F2 R2 F2 D' B2 D2 U F2 L2 U' B R B2 D' B U' L B' F' L' U'
40218 19-mar-2017 17:25:00 00:21.791 D B2 L2 D F2 R2 U' B2 D2 F2 R2 F U' L2 B' D U F R B L U'
40217 19-mar-2017 17:24:21 00:17.215 D B2 R2 U2 F2 D R2 L2 B2 D F2 L' F D' R2 F' D U' L' D B' L2
40216 19-mar-2017 17:23:45 00:15.551 B2 F2 D' R2 D' R2 U' L2 U2 B2 U L D B' R' B F' U2 F2 D F2 U'
40215 19-mar-2017 17:23:12 00:12.936 L2 F2 L2 D' B2 R2 U F2 L2 D R2 B' D' U2 R F L' D' R B' R2 U'
40214 19-mar-2017 17:22:30 00:21.872 R2 U F2 U B2 D2 U' B2 R2 U2 B2 L U' R D F L' D B' R B'
40213 19-mar-2017 17:21:54 00:19.399 L2 D' L2 F2 D' F2 R2 L2 F2 L2 D' R U2 B' R F' D B' D U' R2
40212 19-mar-2017 17:21:14 00:18.605 B2 L2 B2 R2 U' F2 D U B2 R2 D2 B D2 B L' B F' R' U' L2 F2 R
40211 19-mar-2017 17:20:33 00:20.423 F2 D B2 U' R2 U' R2 L2 D2 R2 U' B L' D2 U' B' L' D' L' F R B
40210 19-mar-2017 17:19:58 00:17.823 F2 D F2 U F2 D B2 U2 B2 U B2 L F' L' U L D B' U2 L2 D'
40209 19-mar-2017 17:19:14 00:21.557 U' B2 L2 U B2 F2 U B2 R2 D B2 R D2 F L' B F2 U2 L D' B2 U'
40208 19-mar-2017 17:18:33 00:20.807 U2 F2 D R2 D L2 U2 R2 D' R2 U B' R2 D' B2 U2 R' F R' D' B' U'
40207 19-mar-2017 17:17:23 00:16.007 D2 F2 R2 D' R2 L2 D' L2 D2 R2 F2 R B R D2 R' U' F' L' F' D' U
40206 19-mar-2017 17:16:48 00:17.863 B2 U' R2 B2 U' R2 U2 L2 F2 D2 U' L U' R2 F' R2 B' D' F2 L' U F
40205 19-mar-2017 17:16:09 00:18.166 B2 L2 D R2 U' B2 L2 B2 F2 D U L F D' U R D2 B' L D L U2
40204 19-mar-2017 17:15:30 00:19.607 U2 B2 R2 F2 U' B2 D' B2 F2 L2 D B' L' D2 U' B F R U2 L' B2
40203 19-mar-2017 17:14:46 00:23.326 D2 B2 R2 D' R2 F2 D' R2 D2 U' L2 F B2 D L B2 L2 D2 B' U' R2
40202 19-mar-2017 17:14:10 00:17.095 R2 L2 U' L2 U2 R2 B2 R2 D F2 D F D' B F D' B2 L U F2 D
40201 19-mar-2017 17:13:34 00:15.431 R2 D' B2 U F2 D' B2 U2 F2 R2 U F R' L2 F U' R2 U R2 B F' L'
40200 19-mar-2017 17:12:56 00:22.117 D' B2 D R2 F2 U' L2 U2 B2 U2 F' L' B L2 U2 L' F D B2 R'
40199 19-mar-2017 17:12:12 00:24.622 D L2 U' R2 B2 D2 L2 U' F2 D' B2 R B' U R2 F2 U F D B L' U'
40198 19-mar-2017 17:11:40 00:18.182 R2 D' R2 D' L2 U B2 D' U' R' D2 L' F' L B D2 B2 L2 D2
40197 19-mar-2017 17:10:58 00:20.015 F2 L2 D F2 R2 D B2 U2 R2 D U2 R' F U R' D B L D2 R' B' D'
40196 19-mar-2017 17:10:22 00:19.965 R2 D2 B2 L2 U F2 U L2 B2 U L2 B R F' U' F R L2 D' L2 B
40195 19-mar-2017 17:09:43 00:15.845 L2 B2 F2 L2 D2 B2 L2 D' B2 D' R2 F L D F U2 R2 F2 L2 D'
40194 19-mar-2017 17:08:34 00:12.622 F2 L2 U2 F2 U2 B2 U' R2 F2 L2 B' D' F2 R U' L B2 D' F' D2 U
40193 19-mar-2017 17:07:57 00:18.558 D2 R2 U F2 D2 L2 F2 D' B2 D' B2 L B U' R' F' U L' F R2 F
40192 19-mar-2017 17:07:17 00:15.870 B2 U' L2 D R2 D' B2 R2 B2 F2 D2 B R' B' R2 B D2 B U2 B2 R' D'
40191 19-mar-2017 17:06:30 00:28.462 B2 U R2 L2 D U2 R2 B2 F2 D2 U' F B2 U R2 F' L U R' D' F'
40190 19-mar-2017 17:05:48 00:23.749 F2 D' R2 U L2 F2 U2 B2 F2 L2 F2 L' U2 F' R B R D' F R2 F'
40189 19-mar-2017 17:05:11 00:18.719 D' L2 F2 R2 B2 D' U F2 U' B2 U' F D F R' F' U' R D2 F' R U2
40188 19-mar-2017 17:04:35 00:17.126 L2 D' F2 D2 R2 U' F2 D L2 D' L2 F' D2 U L2 B U R' U2 L B' F'
40187 19-mar-2017 17:04:01 00:18.102 D' R2 B2 R2 D' U2 L2 U R2 B2 U' F R B R2 B' R2 L2 U2 F' L
40186 19-mar-2017 17:03:28 00:16.910 D L2 D' R2 L2 B2 U B2 R2 F2 L F' D L2 U' B R' U R L'
40185 19-mar-2017 17:02:47 00:20.951 B2 U2 R2 L2 D' L2 U' R2 B2 U2 F2 R L' D' F D2 B R L2 F D' U'
40184 19-mar-2017 17:02:03 00:21.207 F2 U B2 U L2 U2 B2 L2 D2 U' F' D' L2 U' F' U L B' R' D
40183 19-mar-2017 17:01:25 00:19.086 R2 L2 B2 D2 L2 D B2 D' B2 R2 D' F' U2 L F D' B' U2 B U2 R L'
40182 19-mar-2017 17:00:47 00:19.454 D2 F2 D' R2 L2 U F2 L2 D U B2 L F2 U F' L D' L' D2 B D' U2
40181 19-mar-2017 17:00:07 00:21.014 U' F2 R2 D B2 U2 B2 F2 R2 L2 U' F' U L U2 B2 D2 L' D2 B' R'
40180 19-mar-2017 16:59:24 00:18.118 L2 D F2 D' L2 B2 U L2 D' L2 U2 R' F L U B' D F' R2 U' B'
40179 19-mar-2017 16:58:49 00:18.758 F2 D' R2 B2 F2 U F2 U' R2 U2 L2 B' L2 B2 D2 U2 L B' F D L2 D
40178 19-mar-2017 16:58:13 00:16.591 L2 B2 L2 D R2 U2 B2 D' F2 L2 F2 L B' D2 F D B D B' F2 U'
40177 19-mar-2017 16:57:32 00:22.343 L2 F2 R2 U' R2 D B2 R2 U2 B2 L2 F R' D R' D' U B F D
40176 19-mar-2017 16:56:44 00:22.023 L2 F2 U R2 B2 R2 L2 D R2 U' R F L' F2 D B F' D2 F D2 U'
40175 19-mar-2017 16:56:07 00:17.782 U' B2 F2 D B2 D2 B2 L2 B2 U B2 L' B' U2 F2 D F D L' D' B2 U'
40174 19-mar-2017 16:55:29 00:15.862 F2 U L2 F2 D2 B2 U' B2 D' R2 D' F R2 D B2 L D L2 U R F' U2
40173 19-mar-2017 16:54:54 00:16.648 R2 F2 L2 F2 D L2 D2 R2 D B2 F2 L F' U R L' F2 R2 D' L B U'
40172 19-mar-2017 16:54:20 00:18.735 R2 D F2 R2 L2 U F2 D L2 U2 L2 F D R' F U2 R' F2 R' F U
40171 19-mar-2017 16:53:39 00:18.006 D' R2 D B2 L2 U' B2 F2 R2 F2 D R' U' R L' D F2 R L' B' U2
40170 19-mar-2017 16:53:04 00:18.030 L2 U F2 D R2 B2 U' B2 L F' D2 U F R' U R2 B' U2
40169 19-mar-2017 16:52:25 00:19.255 F2 U F2 U L2 B2 R2 B2 U' F2 L2 F D R B U2 B2 U L' D' R U2
40168 19-mar-2017 16:51:50 00:15.304 B2 D2 L2 F2 D2 L2 D' B2 L2 D' B' D2 F' D U R F R2 U2 B U'
40167 19-mar-2017 16:51:04 00:16.990 F2 L2 D2 R2 L2 F2 U L2 U' R2 D2 F L2 F2 U R' L D U2 L F U'
40166 19-mar-2017 16:50:26 00:17.854 D B2 R2 U2 L2 D' B2 D B2 F2 U' R U' B D U' L B' F D' B2 R'
40165 19-mar-2017 16:49:48 00:19.823 D2 F2 U R2 F2 R2 F2 D F2 D2 B2 R' F' U B2 R D2 F D B
40164 19-mar-2017 16:49:03 00:22.222 U L2 U F2 D U2 R2 U2 L2 U' R' D R2 F2 L' B2 U' B' F2 R' U'
40163 19-mar-2017 16:48:24 00:18.607 R2 D2 R2 U R2 D' B2 L2 D' L2 U F' B2 L' B U' R F2 D B' L' U2
40162 19-mar-2017 16:47:42 00:19.102 F2 R2 U' F2 U F2 U' R2 D R2 U2 L U R' B R D2 U' B' F D2
40161 19-mar-2017 16:47:08 00:18.846 F2 D L2 B2 L2 F2 D' U2 B2 U2 L2 F' L D2 B' D R2 F L2 D R' U
40160 19-mar-2017 16:46:24 00:21.509 D2 B2 D' R2 D' U L2 B2 U F' L D' U F2 L B' R2 D B D2
40159 19-mar-2017 16:45:44 00:18.839 R2 D2 B2 U R2 L2 U' R2 U' L2 D' B' R2 F2 U2 B' R U' B L
40158 19-mar-2017 16:45:06 00:18.271 U R2 U F2 L2 D' L2 D' U2 B2 U' R D L' D' L2 U R' L' F L' U
40157 19-mar-2017 16:44:29 00:17.016 U F2 U F2 L2 D2 F2 U' F2 D' R2 F D F D' B' R2 D' F L B
40156 19-mar-2017 16:43:51 00:18.591 L2 D' B2 F2 R2 B2 D2 R2 D' L2 U F' D' R' L' B R L U' R' F'
40155 19-mar-2017 16:43:04 00:28.535 L2 U L2 D2 L2 U' F2 D' R2 L2 F2 L B2 L2 F' U' R2 L2 D' F2 D'
40154 19-mar-2017 16:42:18 00:20.782 D2 B2 D' F2 U B2 U R2 U R2 B2 L B2 L2 B' R B' L' B2 U' R'
40153 19-mar-2017 16:41:33 00:20.773 R2 D L2 D B2 R2 D2 U' B2 U B2 R D' F' L' D U' B D' B' R2 L'
40152 19-mar-2017 15:31:05 00:17.886 L2 D' B2 D F2 D B2 F2 R2 D2 U2 R' F' L2 D' B' D R2 D B2 D
40151 19-mar-2017 15:30:27 00:18.892 U' F2 D' F2 D B2 L2 D' R2 U B' U2 B2 R' L F' L' U' B2 D U
40150 19-mar-2017 15:29:40 00:24.620 B2 L2 B2 D R2 U2 B2 R2 U R2 U F R F2 L' F2 L2 D' B2 F R' U
40149 19-mar-2017 15:28:49 00:25.733 R2 U' R2 D2 L2 U L2 U R2 U B2 R B F L2 B R2 D' U' B' L' U'
40148 19-mar-2017 15:27:35 00:20.280 D' U' L2 D' B2 U' R2 B2 R2 B2 U' L' B D' F D' L B2 R B2 L U2
40147 19-mar-2017 15:26:39 00:17.349 R2 L2 F2 U' B2 U' R2 B2 L2 F2 D B' R' B F' U' L F D' B D
40146 19-mar-2017 15:25:50 00:14.118 D B2 L2 U' R2 D' F2 U F2 D U' L' B U2 F' D' B L D B R'
40145 19-mar-2017 15:25:10 00:20.496 L2 F2 D2 U' R2 D L2 B2 L2 U' L2 B' R' L' U' B R2 U' B' D L'
40144 19-mar-2017 15:24:17 00:16.567 U2 L2 D L2 D R2 U R2 F2 D2 U2 B' D' L' U2 B' D' L D' R' D U'
40143 19-mar-2017 15:23:26 00:20.021 B2 U2 F2 D' U2 B2 D' R2 U' L2 B2 R' F2 D' B2 D L F D' F' L' U'
40142 19-mar-2017 15:22:49 00:16.111 D2 F2 U' L2 U' B2 U' R2 D2 R2 U' L' D' F D R2 D2 U' R2 D2 B
40141 19-mar-2017 15:22:15 00:15.871 R2 U' B2 F2 D F2 R2 U L2 F2 U2 F' D2 R F' L D' F' D2 R B
40140 19-mar-2017 15:21:40 00:14.486 U2 R2 B2 D' F2 D2 L2 U R2 U' R2 F' U B' F D U' L F U2 L'
40139 19-mar-2017 15:21:02 00:18.309 L2 F2 U2 F2 U B2 R2 F2 U' L2 U' B' F2 L2 F2 R' U' F U' L U2
40138 19-mar-2017 15:20:25 00:16.983 B2 U R2 U L2 B2 U L2 D' R2 F' U2 F' R F' R2 D U2 F' D' U'
40137 19-mar-2017 15:18:51 00:18.758 U2 R2 F2 D2 U' B2 L2 F2 L2 D2 L B R2 U F' R U2 L B U'


----------



## muchacho (Mar 20, 2017)

While doing the Roux Facebook group competition I repeated the scramble of the previous solve (17.25x), I realized it was the same during inspection, but did the solve anyway... I ended doing the same exact moves (and the time was just 0.1 better), so fastest reconstruction so far 

edit: Gilles Roux is registered for Worlds!


----------



## mafergut (Mar 20, 2017)

Another full CN Ao50 and... 20.01, improved with 2 extra solves to 19.92. Time to forget about being full CN and try to go back to mid 18 with just white and yellow? Or time to keep trying until I succeed? Also my turning accuracy is terrible lately, not sure if this is an effect of big cube practice. All of a sudden a 3x3 is too light to turn compared with a 6x6


----------



## Lazy Einstein (Mar 20, 2017)

Back into speedsolving I think. It has been 5 days and I have have done an Ao100 everyday. That is more solves than I have done since August till I began. Having my 4th children in June, so I am hoping to finish ZBLL before than and be actively solving with ZZ-a. That way I can focus on my daughter and not have to worry about putting off ZBLL for a 4th times. I am over half way done. I know my COLLs + a few extra for half of the COLL cases, 2GLL, Pi, and and 24 algs from finished AS.

Nice to been focused on solving instead of algs for once.


----------



## Lazy Einstein (Mar 20, 2017)

mafergut said:


> Another full CN Ao50 and... 20.01, improved with 2 extra solves to 19.92. Time to forget about being full CN and try to go back to mid 18 with just white and yellow? Or time to keep trying until I succeed? Also my turning accuracy is terrible lately, not sure if this is an effect of big cube practice. All of a sudden a 3x3 is too light to turn compared with a 6x6



I'd say stay CN. When I solved CN CFOP it become natural after a few weeks. It helps with 2x2x2 and Skewb as well.


----------



## mafergut (Mar 20, 2017)

Lazy Einstein said:


> Back into speedsolving I think. It has been 5 days and I have have done an Ao100 everyday. That is more solves than I have done since August till I began. Having my 4th children in June, so I am hoping to finish ZBLL before than and be actively solving with ZZ-a. That way I can focus on my daughter and not have to worry about putting off ZBLL for a 4th times. I am over half way done. I know my COLLs + a few extra for half of the COLL cases, 2GLL, Pi, and and 24 algs from finished AS.
> 
> Nice to been focused on solving instead of algs for once.


Nice to see you back but I can understand that life usually gets in the middle. Had you just said... 4th children??? I've got one and I think I'm busy!


----------



## newtonbase (Mar 20, 2017)

I struggle with 2 children. I've never done an AO100 and have to do my MBLD practice at work.


----------



## Lazy Einstein (Mar 20, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> I struggle with 2 children. I've never done an AO100 and have to do my MBLD practice at work.



Good work place. =P
My family is all passed out by like 8:30pm. I usually cube for a hour or two when I do cube


----------



## pglewis (Mar 20, 2017)

muchacho said:


> I guess I'll stick with the Weilong v2, I've improved almost 1 second with it in last 2 months (maybe it's not the cause, but I'm not gonna risk it).



Cubers might be up there with baseball players and guitarists for superstitions. 



mafergut said:


> Time to forget about being full CN and try to go back to mid 18 with just white and yellow? Or time to keep trying until I succeed?



I've been weighing the same thing. On one hand I can get a good portion of the benefits, statistically, just being white/yellow neutral and I'm only a little bit of concentrated practice from being as fast on yellow as I am white. Full CN isn't a lot of bang for my buck given where my times are. On the other hand, at some point I'll theoretically reach a plateau where the small potential gain would actually mean something. I can see where it would be a lot easier adapting full CN to 30 second solves now than getting down to 18 and adapting. For now I've decided to put focus on 2-sided PLL recog because I think that's going to buy me a bigger chunk of time than focus on full CN would.


----------



## h2f (Mar 20, 2017)

I've figured out I had a problem with stackmat on last comp - it caused me a stress. So I did ao50 stackmated and it's better now - sub-19.


----------



## mark49152 (Mar 20, 2017)

h2f said:


> I've figured out I had a problem with stackmat on last comp - it caused me a stress. So I did ao50 stackmated and it's better now - sub-19.


Yeah definitely a good idea to get some Stackmat time before a comp, especially for BLD. 

By the way, did you get your 46 on cam?


----------



## h2f (Mar 20, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> By the way, did you get your 46 on cam?



No. It was just a 10th solve on fast memo solving. I got only scramble.


----------



## mark49152 (Mar 20, 2017)

h2f said:


> No. It was just a 10th solve on fast memo solving. I got only scramble.


Are you practising fast memo? How?


----------



## h2f (Mar 20, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> Are you practising fast memo? How?



I'm just trying it. I try to focus and a do a memo edges without a review only by making a vivid image/images. I do a review of edges during solving corners. If it works the solve goes fine. I also keep reviewing my list of words and changing it for some good words. For example for HG there's no good word in Polish but my wife told me "hooligan" which is easy to imagine.


----------



## mafergut (Mar 20, 2017)

I was going to get my 1st sub 6min 6x6 single, looked at the timer, plenty of time for LL... or was it? Little lockup here, little hesitation there, dang PLL parity... final time 6:00.35  Conclusion, 3x3 stage on 6x6 takes me ages... well, and centers and edge pairing too but you know what I mean.

Several sub 6:10.xx these past days so I know it's coming anyway. Not sure how easy it's going to be to go all the way down to sub 5min, though. Do you guys find a lot of difference in TPS in 6x6 and 7x7 compared with 4x4 and 5x5? I still fail some PLLs (e.g. R-perms) because my muscle memory betrays me whereas on 4x4 and 5x5 that happens rarely now.


----------



## Shaky Hands (Mar 20, 2017)

mafergut said:


> I was going to get my 1st sub 6min 6x6 single, looked at the timer, plenty of time for LL... or was it? Little lockup here, little hesitation there, dang PLL parity... final time 6:00.35  Conclusion, 3x3 stage on 6x6 takes me ages... well, and centers and edge pairing too but you know what I mean.
> 
> Several sub 6:10.xx these past days so I know it's coming anyway. Not sure how easy it's going to be to go all the way down to sub 5min, though. Do you guys find a lot of difference in TPS in 6x6 and 7x7 compared with 4x4 and 5x5? I still fail some PLLs (e.g. R-perms) because my muscle memory betrays me whereas on 4x4 and 5x5 that happens rarely now.



I can do all PLL's on 6x6 and 7x7 now (this time last year I couldn't do them all on 4x4.) TPS is definitely slower on big cubes although the upside is that lookahead is better.


----------



## mafergut (Mar 20, 2017)

Shaky Hands said:


> I can do all PLL's on 6x6 and 7x7 now (this time last year I couldn't do them all on 4x4.) TPS is definitely slower on big cubes although the upside is that lookahead is better.


My problem is that I have to turn very carefully and slowly (most clearly on 6x6,as 7x7 is odd layered and is more difficult to pop) so, even though lookahead is better, my times are awfully worse than 4x4 or 5x5. I'm sure it's also that I have practiced less but still...

Example: 5x5 Ao100 2:42.xx and 6x6... well, I don't have a 6x6 Ao100 but, still fighting to get a sub 6min single


----------



## newtonbase (Mar 21, 2017)

Lazy Einstein said:


> Good work place. =P
> My family is all passed out by like 8:30pm. I usually cube for a hour or two when I do cube


The practice is done in a busy kitchen on my lunch break but at least nobody is shouting "Daddy I neeeeeed you" and I almost never have to break up fights.


----------



## One Wheel (Mar 21, 2017)

mafergut said:


> I still fail some PLLs (e.g. R-perms) because my muscle memory betrays me whereas on 4x4 and 5x5 that happens rarely now.



I don't have trouble with big cube PLLs, but feet gives me fits. I think I have about a 50% success rate executing G-perms with my feet. I need to learn some good RU H- and Z-perms for feet, OH, and big cubes. With those and consistency executing the others I think I can come close to vying for a podium spot in feet at a local comp someday.


----------



## newtonbase (Mar 21, 2017)

I thought I'd invented a new A perm this morning. Checked it against a database and the top one on the list was the same but with a much better wide move to start. Then I realised that this was the same as the one I already use but from a nicer angle. 
I've been using the same crappy algs for over 3 years.


----------



## conanthewarrior (Mar 21, 2017)

I have no idea on the average age here, I have only just joined myself after finding my old cube yesterday, and picking it up and playing non stop. 
I only ever learnt the beginner method when I was younger, so was by no means very fast, I believe my best solve was around 50 seconds. I am hoping this will help my memory improve though as I do have some issues there. 

I am 26, coming up 27, so not old by conventional standards, just might be by cubing standards lol.


----------



## muchacho (Mar 21, 2017)

I'm 40, the average age in this thread is probably higher than that, but don't worry, you are old enough 

Welcome!

I think my memory has improved, at least it was much harder to remember algs at the begining.


----------



## conanthewarrior (Mar 21, 2017)

muchacho said:


> I'm 40, the average age in this thread is probably higher than that, but don't worry, you are old enough
> 
> Welcome!
> 
> I think my memory has improved, at least it was much harder to remember algs at the begining.



That is good to know- I was a bit worried upon joining here I would be the oldest here lol! I don't know much about speed cubing at all, it is just something that interests me and after finding my cube yesterday, thought I might as well have a try and see how well I can do. 

Hopefully I can get to my pre illness speed of a best of around 50 Seconds, and then improve upon this. This will be using the beginner method, how fast can people actually get using this method?

Also, I think you helped me in the thread about which cube to buy, thanks again for that .


----------



## muchacho (Mar 21, 2017)

Less than 20 seconds I guess (https://www.speedsolving.com/forum/threads/pbs-for-layer-by-layer.64231/), in youtube there are at least a couple of videos of people getting sub-20 solves with different methods, being the beginner method one of them.


----------



## One Wheel (Mar 21, 2017)

conanthewarrior said:


> That is good to know- I was a bit worried upon joining here I would be the oldest here lol! I don't know much about speed cubing at all, it is just something that interests me and after finding my cube yesterday, thought I might as well have a try and see how well I can do.
> 
> Hopefully I can get to my pre illness speed of a best of around 50 Seconds, and then improve upon this. This will be using the beginner method, how fast can people actually get using this method?
> 
> Also, I think you helped me in the thread about which cube to buy, thanks again for that .



I think 50 seconds was about where I was when I first learned F2L, 2-look OLL, and 2-look PLL, although that might have been after I learned those. I'm not especially good at speedcubing, but it is a fun pastime. I run around 34 seconds now with full PLL, but most of my cubing time is spent on bigger cubes. 

Welcome to the thread. I think I was previously the youngest on here, and I'll be 30 next month. It's kind of nice to not be the youngest.


----------



## conanthewarrior (Mar 21, 2017)

One Wheel said:


> I think 50 seconds was about where I was when I first learned F2L, 2-look OLL, and 2-look PLL, although that might have been after I learned those. I'm not especially good at speedcubing, but it is a fun pastime. I run around 34 seconds now with full PLL, but most of my cubing time is spent on bigger cubes.
> 
> Welcome to the thread. I think I was previously the youngest on here, and I'll be 30 next month. It's kind of nice to not be the youngest.



That is a fair time, and impressive to me! I am trying to remember the beginners method again,hopefully I will have it in my memory again within a few days fingers crossed. It is fun I agree, I am mainly doing it for fun and also as I hope it could improve my memory if I can remember the algorithms, as I have some issues there from previous illness.

Thats cool, my birthday is next month, St Georges day here in England, the 23rd, I will be 27 then. It is nice to know there are a lot of people that are my age and older here. Obviously I will speak to anyone that is friendly, but it is nice to have people of a similar age to talk with.


----------



## Shaky Hands (Mar 21, 2017)

conanthewarrior said:


> here in England



Many many Brits post in this thread. Welcome.


----------



## mark49152 (Mar 21, 2017)

conanthewarrior said:


> here in England


Yeah welcome, nice to see another Brit. The cubing scene is pretty healthy here in the UK.


----------



## h2f (Mar 21, 2017)

conanthewarrior said:


> Thats cool, my birthday is next month, St Georges day here in England, the 23rd, I will be 27 then. It is nice to know there are a lot of people that are my age and older here. Obviously I will speak to anyone that is friendly, but it is nice to have people of a similar age to talk with.



Nice to see you here.


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## pglewis (Mar 21, 2017)

conanthewarrior said:


> I am 26, coming up 27, so not old by conventional standards, just might be by cubing standards lol.



You're probably well older than the average age for the forum and on the younger side of the folks in this thread (I just turned 49). I'm sure you relate a lot more closely with us oldies though. Welcome back to the hobby. 



conanthewarrior said:


> Hopefully I can get to my pre illness speed of a best of around 50 Seconds, and then improve upon this. This will be using the beginner method, how fast can people actually get using this method?



It's possible to get sub 20, at least, with the beginners' method but I don't think that means anyone _should_. As far as LBL vs. F2L pairs: I'm a firm believer that the moment you can comfortably solve the first two layers a piece at a time, it's time to start learning to solve F2L pairs (assuming you intend to pursue CFOP as your method). There really is no advantage at all to solving corners and edges separately except that it's easier to learn initially. If you watch closely, you're actually removing solved pieces, making them into corner/edge pairs, then re-inserting the pair when you do LBL... the method solves F2L pairs but trades efficiency for simplicity by limiting the F2L cases to just one. From the time I was under 2 mins to now-- averaging around 30 seconds-- the majority of my improvement continues to come from improving lookahead during F2L. If you pursue CFOP you'll spend a lot of time getting better at F2L so my advice is start learning it early. I know we have some oldies here using Roux and ZZ, as well, CFOP isn't the only way to go. 

Also, it's not a lot to learn to seriously improve on the beginners' last layer method. "4-look" last layer isn't a crazy amount of memorization and I think it's perfectly fine to use a cheat sheet until you get them down. You'll develop muscle memory for the last layer algs through repetition and in my case that has developed a *lot* faster than lookahead. Memorizing the algs may seem like the hard part at first but it has been the opposite for me in practice. @Logiqx has some nice resources for learning better last layer, I'd personally start with this one for OLL (orienting the last layer): http://cubing.mikeg.me.uk/algs/2loll.html

There are only 3 short sequences to learn for orienting the edges first followed by seven for the corners afterwards. You'll continue to use those over and over even as you pick up more advanced techniques.


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## mark49152 (Mar 21, 2017)

@conanthewarrior : I agree with the above and would add that the best time to learn new stuff is as soon as you can. All these new techniques need practise to bed them in. Better to spend all those hours bedding in your F2L or full PLL than bed in beginners' techniques that you'll be abandoning soon anyway. View your practice time as an investment and make sure you invest it in worthwhile things.


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## pglewis (Mar 22, 2017)

I need some supplemental notation to reconstruct a recent solve:

R0 R0 R (a new variation I invented for the end of Pi OLL... swiiiiiiing and a miss)

Then this gem on the final AUF:

U U'.5 U.5 U2

Yes, I actually found something worse than a U3. 1/4 speed playback shows I quickly realized I went the wrong way and started to correct it... then inexplicably halted and reversed again. And, yes, I actually halted after the half turn re-align before continuing on with the final U2 :facepalm:


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## JanW (Mar 22, 2017)

conanthewarrior said:


> That is good to know- I was a bit worried upon joining here I would be the oldest here lol! I don't know much about speed cubing at all, it is just something that interests me and after finding my cube yesterday, thought I might as well have a try and see how well I can do.
> 
> Hopefully I can get to my pre illness speed of a best of around 50 Seconds, and then improve upon this. This will be using the beginner method, how fast can people actually get using this method?


Welcome! In this thread you are definitely not too old. At 36 I sometimes feel like a child here...

I would recommend that you start looking into F2L as soon as you've got the beginners method down. At least for me, learning F2L was what got me really interested in solving. Beginners method is mostly about spamming a few simple algs, while intuitive F2L brings more thinking to the equation. Solving F2L intuitively is quite easy to learn, but then you spend the rest of your cubing career improving on it. Better start learning it as soon as possible. 

I first learned F2L from some youtube video. Don't remember now exactly what video that was, might have been this one:


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## newtonbase (Mar 22, 2017)

2nd attempt at 5 cubes. Took it very slowly and found memo errors on 2 of the cubes in review.


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## pipkiksass (Mar 22, 2017)

Welcome @conanthewarrior - I'm a Brit too, and old(er)!

Just smashed the hell out of my Ao50 and Ao100 - I knew it was coming, because I hardly ever get enough time to sit down and do a solid average, and my Ao5/12 almost 3/2 seconds ahead of my Ao100, respectively. I did 50 solves yesterday, then a further 80 today (130 in total, for the mathematically challenged!), and here's the headlines:

Ao100 17.38 (was 17.79)
Ao50 17.04 (was 17.49).

Session average - 17.58 (today's 80 were much better than yesterday's 50). I'm breaking my Ao100 and Ao50 practically with each solve, but sadly I have to stop as my wife and daughter are due home any minute. 

I'm trying to break back in to 4x4 - having got down to about a 1:10 average, then taking a month off, I'm back up to just sub-1:20. Need some concerted practice, but 3x3 improvements are coming thick and fast at the moment, and I keep procrastinating by going back to 3x3!

In other news, I think I'm about 6 OLLs away from full OLL. Hooray! But then I managed a 14s solve with effectively 3 look OLL earlier, so...


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## mafergut (Mar 22, 2017)

@pipkiksass Congratulations! Tell me your secret! I've been stuck at mid-18 average for ages now.

Also, welcome @conanthewarrior. You are soooo young! I'm also well above 40 myself.


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## pglewis (Mar 22, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> 2nd attempt at 5 cubes. Took it very slowly and found memo errors on 2 of the cubes in review.



Impressive progress. What's the next step, more cubes or a faster five?



pipkiksass said:


> I'm trying to break back in to 4x4 - having got down to about a 1:10 average, then taking a month off, I'm back up to just sub-1:20. Need some concerted practice, but 3x3 improvements are coming thick and fast at the moment, and I keep procrastinating by going back to 3x3!



Same reason I'm neglecting both 4x4 and blindfold that I vowed to keep up on. My 3x3 times started moving again after a mini-plateau... several seconds worth. It's just been the right time for me to go back to spamming sighted 3x3. 



pipkiksass said:


> In other news, I think I'm about 6 OLLs away from full OLL. Hooray! But then I managed a 14s solve with effectively 3 look OLL earlier, so...



Ain't that the way it always goes... my PLL skips are always wasted on mediocre solves. I think my current PB was a 1-look anti-Sune (possibly my best OLL) but the previous three were full solves including a 3-look. I think I've had exactly one last layer skip ever, and it only landed me a 29.


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## mark49152 (Mar 22, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> 2nd attempt at 5 cubes. Took it very slowly and found memo errors on 2 of the cubes in review.


Nice job, congrats! Six next


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## h2f (Mar 22, 2017)

I feel awfull with my official 3bld attempts. I've started filming my practice sessions and I got sub1 on cam - actually it's best on cam. I also got few 1:0x on cam. There's still a lot of room for improvement but pauses are caused by memo problems not figuring algs. Maybe this is a little sign of small impovement: doing all comms without thinking of.


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## Tabe (Mar 22, 2017)

I got told I needed to drop in and say hi so here I am. Who am I to defy an order? 

I'm 44, living in Spokane, WA and hope to live long enough for my PB (currently 58) to drop below my age, LOL. I've just begun studying CFOP but am also looking at other puzzles - 2x2 through 5x5, Pyraminx, Skewb, Megaminx, whatever. I seem to find a new one every day that I want to try. I got my first two cubes in 1981 and still have one of them - a gorgeous Rubik's Deluxe.

I'm old. I'm slow. My fingers don't do what I tell them. My turning style can only be described as chaotic destruction. My name Is Tabe and I'm a terrible cuber and I'm thrilled to be here


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## h2f (Mar 22, 2017)

Tabe said:


> I'm old. I'm slow. My fingers don't do what I tell them. My turning style can only be described as chaotic destruction. My name Is Tabe and I'm a terrible cuber and I'm thrilled to be here



Hi. I'm sure you can be sub20 sooner or later and you are not too old for it. I'm 43 in 2 months.


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## mafergut (Mar 22, 2017)

Tabe said:


> I got told I needed to drop in and say hi so here I am. Who am I to defy an order?
> 
> I'm 44, living in Spokane, WA and hope to live long enough for my PB (currently 58) to drop below my age, LOL. I've just begun studying CFOP but am also looking at other puzzles - 2x2 through 5x5, Pyraminx, Skewb, Megaminx, whatever. I seem to find a new one every day that I want to try. I got my first two cubes in 1981 and still have one of them - a gorgeous Rubik's Deluxe.
> 
> I'm old. I'm slow. My fingers don't do what I tell them. My turning style can only be described as chaotic destruction. My name Is Tabe and I'm a terrible cuber and I'm thrilled to be here


Welcome @Tabe. You are certainly in the right thread and forum  I am 46 and, yeah, I also feel old and slow and all that but with enough practice and good "hardware" improvement is certainly possible to get your PB well below your current age. You have already tried lots of puzzles so, that's a good sign that you have found a new hobby


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## mark49152 (Mar 22, 2017)

Welcome @Tabe!


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## pglewis (Mar 22, 2017)

pglewis said:


> I need some supplemental notation to reconstruct a recent solve:
> 
> R0 R0 R (a new variation I invented for the end of Pi OLL... swiiiiiiing and a miss)
> 
> ...








The last time I analyzed a recorded solve high 30s were "pretty good" so I felt it was time for me to do a post-mortem on a mid 20. Remarkably, I got a 25.x on the first one after starting the phone camera. I was unfortunately a little fumbly and not fully warmed up yet, which I'll use as my excuse for the last layer debacle documented above. It's also a slightly weird solve, I think I was gifted an x-cross (my vid annotation says the 2nd pair was already solved but that's just when I noticed it) and the last pair auto-joined for me while inserting the 3rd. 

The camera angle has more hand than cube but I was able to glean what I wanted to get from it. I'll work out a better location before next time.

The good:

Pauses between steps and substeps have been cut down tremendously since the last time I analyzed a recorded solve
EOLL was nearly automatic
If I ignore not "sticking the landing", my Pi execution is apparently much faster than I thought. I had to slow the vid to verify, looks a whole lot different to me outside the solve vs. when it's happening. 

The bad:

Last layer fumbles, which I can mostly write off to not being warmed up and in a rhythm. It hasn't been a chronic problem. 
Pauses still. Listening to the solve without watching was a revelation for me. Every time the sound of the cube stops, I've out-turned my look-ahead. I don't think there are 10 more seconds in pauses to trim any longer but I'll wager there's enough time in pauses alone for this one to be sub 20. 

The ugly:

That awful, awkward cube rotation before the last pair. The best I can figure is I wanted the slot in the FR but that would have been pure guessing. Guessing almost never pays off for me. My cube rotations _are_ improving but then I catch myself doing this.


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## newtonbase (Mar 22, 2017)

pglewis said:


> Impressive progress. What's the next step, more cubes or a faster five?





mark49152 said:


> Nice job, congrats! Six next


The plan is to get to 6 and then finally get around to 4BLD now that I know the memo isn't a problem. 
I'll maintain MBLD with some smaller attempts and work on some new rooms. I'd really like to know what I can do in an hour but I only ever get to practice on my lunch so can't test that out. My guess is a safe 7 at the moment. 
But I change my mind with the wind. 

Glad you made it over here @Tabe


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## mafergut (Mar 22, 2017)

Maybe there's still hope for my attempt to go full color neutral. Full step PB on non-white/yellow cross:

1. 14.42[orange cross] R' D2 U R2 D' F2 L2 R2 F2 U' F2 D L' D F R2 B' L D U2 F'

3-move cross and easy-to-preserve 1st pair seen in inspection. Very easy F2L and meh LL. The only other non-white/yellow solve faster than this I have on record was a 13.62 OLL skip.


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## mark49152 (Mar 23, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> The plan is to get to 6 and then finally get around to 4BLD now that I know the memo isn't a problem.


Yeah 4BLD is really fun. It's only about 2.5 cubes worth of memo but adds some other nice challenges. You're more than ready for it .


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## mark49152 (Mar 23, 2017)

h2f said:


> I feel awfull with my official 3bld attempts. I've started filming my practice sessions and I got sub1 on cam - actually it's best on cam. I also got few 1:0x on cam. There's still a lot of room for improvement but pauses are caused by memo problems not figuring algs. Maybe this is a little sign of small impovement: doing all comms without thinking of.


Nice solve Grzegorz. Your memo was fast there. Maybe you need more TPS .

My corner comms have bedded in pretty well and most of them I don't need to think much about. It's just as natural now as my OP corners setups. There are a few I still have to think about though. 

Edge comms are a different story. I did add a few for letter pairs that are not efficient with advanced M2, but I tend to revert to the M2 way because that's my mode of thinking during edges. Also the cases don't get much practice because there are so few of them.


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## newtonbase (Mar 23, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> Yeah 4BLD is really fun. It's only about 2.5 cubes worth of memo but adds some other nice challenges. You're more than ready for it .


Part of the reason I started on MBLD was to get ready for 4BLD but I got a little carried away.



mark49152 said:


> Edge comms are a different story. I did add a few for letter pairs that are not efficient with advanced M2, but I tend to revert to the M2 way because that's my mode of thinking during edges. Also the cases don't get much practice because there are so few of them.


I'm the same. I know some nice algs for pairs like BD and ME but never use them in anger. I need to be brave.


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## JohnnyReggae (Mar 23, 2017)

Had a nice run with an almost PB ao12, but did manage a PB ao5 

Generated By csTimer on 2017-3-23
avg of 5: 14.56

Time List:
1. 14.74 R2 D2 F2 R2 U2 F' U2 F R2 B' U2 L U B2 F' D F U' R U' 
2. (14.00) D L2 B2 U L2 B2 R2 B2 D2 L2 F R2 U R' F' U B U L2 R2 
3. (16.99) B2 U R U' D' B L2 F D' B U2 F' R2 B' U2 L2 D2 R2 B' L2 R 
4. 14.01 L2 F2 R L2 B R2 U' D' B' R' L2 F2 R2 U' F2 D L2 D R2 D' B2 
5. 14.93 R2 B' L2 R2 U2 B R2 B' L2 F U' B2 L' F' U2 L R B' U2 B2


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## Fyzzna (Mar 23, 2017)

Hello!
even though I might be on the young side here I thought I might as well introduce myself .
Started cubing roughly 2 weeks ago and it's been incredibly fun so far. Right now the 24 hours of my day essentially consist of furiously working on my thesis, solving my cube and sleeping.
So far my PBs are: single: 37.73, ao5: 42.61, ao12: 45.82. Haven't really had the time to do an ao50 yet, but it's definitely on my list.


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## newtonbase (Mar 23, 2017)

Fyzzna said:


> Hello!
> even though I might be on the young side here I thought I might as well introduce myself .
> Started cubing roughly 2 weeks ago and it's been incredibly fun so far. Right now the 24 hours of my day essentially consist of furiously working on my thesis, solving my cube and sleeping.
> So far my PBs are: single: 37.73, ao5: 42.61, ao12: 45.82. Haven't really had the time to do an ao50 yet, but it's definitely on my list.


Welcome @Fyzzna


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## Jason Green (Mar 23, 2017)

Welcome to the three new guys! Always exciting to see someone new picking up the hobby!

I'm having issues with Tapatalk, has anyone else noticed issues connecting?


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## Tabe (Mar 23, 2017)

Jason Green said:


> I'm having issues with Tapatalk, has anyone else noticed issues connecting?


They disabled it:

https://www.speedsolving.com/forum/threads/tapatalk-disabled.64285/


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## newtonbase (Mar 23, 2017)

Tabe said:


> They disabled it:
> 
> https://www.speedsolving.com/forum/threads/tapatalk-disabled.64285/


I never liked it anyway. They send me emails occasionally saying someone is following me so if they do get it working again then a big Hello to all my stalkers!


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## mark49152 (Mar 23, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> I never liked it anyway.


Me neither. It used to be OK then they ruined it with a bunch of awful updates. The mobile site is just fine.


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## pglewis (Mar 23, 2017)

h2f said:


> I feel awfull with my official 3bld attempts. I've started filming my practice sessions and I got sub1 on cam - actually it's best on cam. I also got few 1:0x on cam. There's still a lot of room for improvement but pauses are caused by memo problems not figuring algs. Maybe this is a little sign of small impovement: doing all comms without thinking of.



Amazing to me. I feel like I should at least look into corner comms whenever I plateau again and return to blindfold work. OP corners feel like the beginners' 3x3 method to me: very easy to learn, but immediately apparent that it's inefficient. My Y perm is a lot more solid now, though .


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## newtonbase (Mar 23, 2017)

pglewis said:


> Amazing to me. I feel like I should at least look into corner comms whenever I plateau again and return to blindfold work. OP corners feel like the beginners' 3x3 method to me: very easy to learn, but immediately apparent that it's inefficient. My Y perm is a lot more solid now, though .


It's hard work but you'll take two thirds off your move count. It's on my list of goals.


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## mark49152 (Mar 23, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> It's hard work but you'll take two thirds off your move count. It's on my list of goals.


You do, but it only becomes an advantage when you eliminate the thinking. With OP corners there are indeed a lot of moves but it's easy to spam TPS with no pauses. It takes a lot of practice with comms before the reduced move count pays back.


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## h2f (Mar 23, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> I never liked it anyway.



Me too. I've unistalled it few months ago. 



pglewis said:


> Amazing to me. I feel like I should at least look into corner comms whenever I plateau again and return to blindfold work. OP corners feel like the beginners' 3x3 method to me: very easy to learn, but immediately apparent that it's inefficient. My Y perm is a lot more solid now, though .



Thanks. OP can be very fast. I've seen Turbo/OP sub50 during Polish Championships.


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## mark49152 (Mar 24, 2017)

h2f said:


> Thanks. OP can be very fast. I've seen Turbo/OP sub50 during Polish Championships.


Yeah I'm sure I've posted this before, but...


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## newtonbase (Mar 24, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> Yeah I'm sure I've posted this before, but...


That could be around 25s with corner comms but I know she's not interested in learning them.


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## JanW (Mar 24, 2017)

No new cubing PBs lately, but I did reach another major milestone when I finally hit sub-100 this morning. Sub-100kg, that is. Started the year at 112.5, so the drop has been quite fast. All thanks to eating more healthy and exercising. As I'm 6'5", I never classified as officially fat, despite the high weight, but I must say it feels a lot better now. This little project is also one of the main reasons why cubing progress stagnated this year. A lot of the time spent exercising and cooking healthy meals is away from cubing time. I'm hoping that in the end improving this area of my life will be at least as beneficial as improving cubing times.


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## h2f (Mar 24, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> Yeah I'm sure I've posted this before, but...



Yeah, I remember. I like comms because I'm lazy and spamming y perm was so boring.


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## JohnnyReggae (Mar 24, 2017)

I've been speedcubing a little over 2 years now and have timed solves going back these last 2 years. I like to keep these stats as they are a reminder for how much I have actually improved even when I think I'm hitting a plateau. Realised yesterday that I had new ao5, ao12, and ao100 PB's when I started looking and parsing all the info to build my solve histogram for the last 2 years  The last 3 days things have been consistently low with yesterday seeing the largest % of sub-15's of all solves yesterday hitting a high of 24% (16/65) solves

I have achieved one of my cubing life-time goals of achieving a sub-10, unfortunately it has only been once but I'm getting closer more regularly lately with a few 12's and 11's this last week alone.

a05 = 14.12
ao12 = 15.71
ao100 = 16.69


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## mark49152 (Mar 24, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> That could be around 25s with corner comms but I know she's not interested in learning them.


Probably. Grzegorz's point was that OP corners can still be very fast, although you're right that nobody world class would waste all those moves. It takes a long time to get comms anywhere near the TPS of a Y-perm, even for us oldies. I have been working on corner comms for a year and am probably now about 5 seconds faster due to comms. It took at least 6 months to get there. In the meantime my memo improved by about 15 seconds. I still haven't beaten my official PB set with OP last summer .


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## newtonbase (Mar 24, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> Probably. Grzegorz's point was that OP corners can still be very fast, although you're right that nobody world class would waste all those moves. It takes a long time to get comms anywhere near the TPS of a Y-perm, even for us oldies. I have been working on corner comms for a year and am probably now about 5 seconds faster due to comms. It took at least 6 months to get there. In the meantime my memo improved by about 15 seconds. I still haven't beaten my official PB set with OP last summer .


It'll happen soon for you I'm sure. 

I still struggle to do corner comms untimed.


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## muchacho (Mar 24, 2017)

JohnnyReggae said:


> I've been speedcubing a little over 2 years now and have timed solves going back these last 2 years...


Similar number of solves than me (and will be 2 years in 3 months) but 2 seconds faster.

PPT FTW!


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## JanW (Mar 24, 2017)

JohnnyReggae said:


> I've been speedcubing a little over 2 years now and have timed solves going back these last 2 years. I like to keep these stats as they are a reminder for how much I have actually improved even when I think I'm hitting a plateau. Realised yesterday that I had new ao5, ao12, and ao100 PB's when I started looking and parsing all the info to build my solve histogram for the last 2 years
> 
> a05 = 14.12
> ao12 = 15.71
> ao100 = 16.69


16.69 ao100 in 2 years is impressive! I most likely won't get anywhere near that. If I could get a sub-20 in the next 6 months I'd be very happy.

Did another sub-23 Ao100 today. I got a 15.46 full-step single, which I think is my full-step pb. Didn't reconstruct, but it was Sune and F-perm. Now all I need is a similar solve with a PLL skip and I might finally beat my pb single, which probably is close to 6 months old by now.

My running Ao1000 also hit sub-24 for the first time. Guess this is a sign of improvement, despite not improving the smaller averages in a while.


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## gogozerg (Mar 24, 2017)

muchacho said:


> edit: Gilles Roux is registered for Worlds!


Sure, I guess the venue is less than 1 hour from where I live. And I want to watch pro cubers!


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## newtonbase (Mar 25, 2017)

gogozerg said:


> Sure, I guess the venue is less than 1 hour from where I live. And I want to watch pro cubers!


Your first comp in a while. Do you practice much nowadays?


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## JanW (Mar 25, 2017)

I've been less impressed by the performance of my MoJue lately, so I gave the Valk yet one more chance. I adjusted the tensions for the third or forth time and finally I got it right. At least more right than on previous attempts. Got my first sub-22 Ao100, also new pb Ao50 and Ao12. The Ao12 is pretty nice:

Generated By csTimer on 2017-3-25
avg of 12: 20.60

Time List:
1. 19.82 U B2 L2 U2 R' B2 R2 U2 L F2 D2 U B' D F2 D R' B2 D2 L'
2. 19.83 F B' D' R F' B D' R2 F' R2 F2 D2 F2 L2 D F2 U L2 U
3. (26.61) F' D2 L2 F2 D2 B2 D' L2 F2 U B2 D' L' R' B' D B2 U F' U2 B
4. 24.96 R2 B2 D L2 U' B2 D B2 D2 L2 U' L F U L B' R F' U' F2
5. 17.24 B U2 F2 L' R2 U2 R F2 R' U2 B2 R2 D' L2 F U B F' L R' F
6. 19.43 U' L2 F2 L2 B2 D' U' L2 D' F2 U F U2 L' R' D' B L B D2 L2
7. 23.73 R2 B2 D' B' D' R' F2 U2 F R U2 D L2 D' L2 F2 L2 F2 U' R2
8. 19.99 F' B2 U' L' D2 L2 D L' U L2 U L2 D2 L2 F2 L2 D' L2 D2 B'
9. 19.46 B' L D2 R2 U2 R' U2 R' B2 L B2 F L' B U' L' U2 F2 L'
10. 19.66 D' B2 U2 F2 R' U2 B2 R' D2 L2 B' D L2 R B U' L F' R2
11. (14.69) B2 L2 B U2 F' R2 B L2 D2 U2 R2 D B2 L' F2 R2 D U B L'
12. 21.83 U' D2 F2 D2 U2 L' F2 R' B2 U2 B2 L2 U B' L2 F L U' R' F2

I like the ratio of sub-20 solves. Now all I need is to make that ratio constant. 

The 14.69 single is my fastest single so far this year and second fastest single ever. It was an OLL skip and T-perm.


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## pipkiksass (Mar 25, 2017)

mafergut said:


> @pipkiksass Congratulations! Tell me your secret! I've been stuck at mid-18 average for ages now.



Turning off the timer and getting better at inspection. Also, I think as I've learnt more OLLs, these are gradually getting absorbed and are starting to work for me in speed solves. I need to finger trick some of my new OLLs, because theres a couple which lead to 19+ solves. Also, I struggle with PLLs which require a 2-handed regrip - these often add a couple of seconds for me, so I might look for new algs. 

</offtopic>

Yeah, I think I've just got better at cross. I still have a long way to go, because I don't EVER plan my first pair. When I get a lucky first pair I generally get 13-15s solves, so this is clearly where I need to look for improvement. For me, the big step up that helped me get sub-18 was having a modicum of lookahead and using inspection better. 

Improvement seems to happen in a haphazard way for me. I didn't do much deliberative practice recently, but I think some of the stuff I was doing c.3 months ago (slow solves, learning OLLs, working with cross) has finally sunk in, and just spamming timed solves is helping to reinforce better habits. I guess the thing to do is turn the timer off for a week, learn some new stuff, then turn it back on for a bit? 

My next step is to turn the timer off, and try to teach myself cross+1 BLD. However long it takes! I reckon if I could do cross+1 BLD every solve, I could be sub-15 VERY quickly, as cross > F2L is my weakest stage.

Has anyone spent any time on CubeSkills.com? I haven't had the opportunity yet, as I gently ease myself back in to the world of work. @David Zemdegs, I really hope Feliks can find a reliable way to monetise cubing - I think he's a great ambassador for cubing in general, and it would be a shame if real life and/or a job intruded on his practice time! 



JohnnyReggae said:


> I've been speedcubing a little over 2 years now and have timed solves going back these last 2 years. I like to keep these stats as they are a reminder for how much I have actually improved even when I think I'm hitting a plateau. Realised yesterday that I had new ao5, ao12, and ao100 PB's when I started looking and parsing all the info to build my solve histogram for the last 2 years  The last 3 days things have been consistently low with yesterday seeing the largest % of sub-15's of all solves yesterday hitting a high of 24% (16/65) solves
> 
> I have achieved one of my cubing life-time goals of achieving a sub-10, unfortunately it has only been once but I'm getting closer more regularly lately with a few 12's and 11's this last week alone.
> 
> ...


I've been cubing a LOT longer than you, and you're a good second faster than me! Maybe it's the frustration of waiting for your postal service to deliver that spurs you on?


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## JanW (Mar 25, 2017)

pipkiksass said:


> My next step is to turn the timer off, and try to teach myself cross+1 BLD. However long it takes!


I find that more and more often I attempt to preserve some pair and do an Xcross, but most of the time this fails miserably and I end up losing time doing so. Like you say, it would probably be a good idea to turn the timer off and focus specifically on cross+1 for a while. I might do it once I've broken the sub-20 barrier.


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## mafergut (Mar 25, 2017)

I think that would be a good idea. There are two types of solves where I spot 1 pair I want to preserve during cross. The ones that turn out to be too complex and I end up wasting more time than I save (or I completely fumble the solve) and the ones that are easy to see how to preserve the pair during inspectiong, which end up being 17.xx seconds or better most of the time. I can see how getting more of the second case would improve my averages.

Solving 3x3 is becoming more and more frustrating for me lately. So I either try something new or forget about it for a while and keep practising big cubes, which I'm enjoying more.

By the way, 5x5 PB single 2:14.58.


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## Jason Green (Mar 25, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> I never liked it anyway. They send me emails occasionally saying someone is following me so if they do get it working again then a big Hello to all my stalkers!


It was still working good for me, but I understand not wanting to support it especially if there are things they could not control. I'll probably prefer the mobile site too after I use it a bit. . I had all emails turned off. I think you can still follow people through the forum am I wrong? I never do that anyway on purpose.

Feeling optimistic about qualifying for 4x4 and OH for Nationals. I did 17 4x4 solves earlier and only 5 were a little over 1:30. Also had a 1:29 double parity while being bugged by my wife and kids about where the phone charger was.  Haha, that got a big "yes!!" from me!

Edit: yes see I can still follow you.


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## David Zemdegs (Mar 25, 2017)

pipkiksass said:


> Has anyone spent any time on CubeSkills.com? I haven't had the opportunity yet, as I gently ease myself back in to the world of work. @David Zemdegs, I really hope Feliks can find a reliable way to monetise cubing - I think he's a great ambassador for cubing in general, and it would be a shame if real life and/or a job intruded on his practice time!


I hope to find the time to go through his videos as well. Feliks is working very hard on his website and there will be heaps more stuff added in the future. I'm really looking forward to competing at the Worlds! My aim is not to be the slowest


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## mark49152 (Mar 25, 2017)

Jason Green said:


> Edit: yes see I can still follow you.


Haha, now I'm following both of you


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## pglewis (Mar 26, 2017)

I'm such a work in progress that I don't really bother tracking large averages. The biggest I track in my spreadsheet is Ao50 and the last time I sat down and did one was over a month ago at 37.51. Knocked a good chunk off with a 33.05 tonight. I now declare: death to all sup 30s.


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## Jason Green (Mar 26, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> Haha, now I'm following both of you


You were basically following me already, I rarely post anywhere but here. 



pglewis said:


> I'm such a work in progress that I don't really bother tracking large averages. The biggest I track in my spreadsheet is Ao50 and the last time I sat down and did one was over a month ago at 37.51. Knocked a good chunk off with a 33.05 tonight. I now declare: death to all sup 30s.


I hardly ever do real big averages. If I keep DNFs on my phone timer it will not give the mean, so I usually just throw them out. They are rare enough I am just planning not to get more than 1 DNF or really bad solve during an official attempt, which so far has held true. But if I'm going to go for a PB averages of 50 or 100 I have to have a different mindset and be a little more careful because obviously I can't throw out solves and count that. 

Edit: actually just played with cstimer a bit because I wasn't sure how it did means, and I see it drops the DNFs. I like that maybe I'll just start leaving them in and then anytime I get an average I'll know it's legit and I can count it.


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## JanW (Mar 26, 2017)

Did a 2x2 session today. My second session ever, apparently. I previously had 50 timed solves in cstimer from last fall. Cut a few seconds of all pbs, now 4.84/7.60/8.25/8.65/9.20 (1/5/12/50/100). That's some nice progress without practice. So, I guess I'll see you again in 6 months, 2x2.


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## mafergut (Mar 26, 2017)

@JanW I wish I was able to do that. It's more than enough for me if I just keep my old times after some weeks without practising any event. Do you do LBL or Ortega (or other)?

My 1st sub-6min 6x6 solve finally! 5:54.10. Still too slow compared with 4x4 and 5x5 so... I need to practise more. By the way, I ordered a G6, will tell you how it performs as soon as I get my hands on it.


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## chtiger (Mar 26, 2017)

keeping with tradition of posting comp results
http://cubecomps.com/live.php?cid=2083&compid=69

3x3 -- no real goals, sub-20 avg would be nice, but that's a long shot
26.83, 20.65, 22.35, 17.88, 26.90 = 23.28 
got a good improvement on single

skewb -- 1st time at comp, avg about 12 at home, sub-14 would be decent
rd 1 -- 14.93, DNF, 12.33, 15.35, 15.55 = 15.28
rd 2 -- 11.29, 12.42, 11.31, 17.38, 8.70 = 11.67
glad I made the 2nd round because it went much better

square-1 -- sub-45 avg would be pretty good for me
rd 1 -- 28.03, 39.52, 41.34, 40.25, 40.74 = 40.17
rd 2 -- DNF, 35.85, 37.33, 58.98, 36.70 = 44.34
that went much better than expected

clock -- one of my two main goals is sub 11 clock avg. Should be trying for sub 10, but I'm not greedy
rd 1 -- 13.06, DNF, 13.30, 14.44, 15.79 = 14.51
I don't know what that was, every solve was terrible
rd 2 -- 9.54, 10.70, 10.14, DNF (noooooo), DNF (NOOOOOOO) = DNF
still can't believe I did that. Don't remember exact times, but 4th solve was mid 11's , 5th was mid 10's

Now I've got 2-3 weeks of this thread to catch up on.


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## mafergut (Mar 26, 2017)

@chtiger Those are really nice results! Very nice 3x3 and SQ1 singles and skewb average. Sorry about clock. You still have lots of PBs you can set on big cubes if you decide to try them at your next comp 

Wow! Second sub 6min 6x6 single of the day and this one is much better: 5:37.76. Almost halfway to sub-5min in one day feels good.


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## JanW (Mar 26, 2017)

mafergut said:


> @JanW I wish I was able to do that. It's more than enough for me if I just keep my old times after some weeks without practising any event. Do you do LBL or Ortega (or other)?


I do Ortega.

Okay, it's a bit of an exaggeration to say I haven't practiced it at all. I keep my 2x2, 4x4 and 5x5 on a shelf by the TV. When I'm watching something on TV I usually play around with a cube. Most of the time it's a 3x3, but sometimes I reach for one of the other sizes. So over the past few months I have occasionally picked up the 2x2 to refresh my memory. No more frequently than maybe once every few weeks, but enough to not forget the Ortega algs.


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## mafergut (Mar 26, 2017)

JanW said:


> I do Ortega.
> 
> Okay, it's a bit of an exaggeration to say I haven't practiced it at all. I keep my 2x2, 4x4 and 5x5 on a shelf by the TV. When I'm watching something on TV I usually play around with a cube. Most of the time it's a 3x3, but sometimes I reach for one of the other sizes. So over the past few months I have occasionally picked up the 2x2 to refresh my memory. No more frequently than maybe once every few weeks, but enough to not forget the Ortega algs.


I know what you mean. I do OH just once in a while and some PLLs just vanish from muscle memory. With 2x2 I keep my algs fresh thanks to @muchacho David's weekly race


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## h2f (Mar 26, 2017)

chtiger said:


> square-1 -- sub-45 avg would be pretty good for me
> rd 1 -- 28.03, 39.52, 41.34, 40.25, 40.74 = 40.17
> rd 2 -- DNF, 35.85, 37.33, 58.98, 36.70 = 44.34
> that went much better than expected



Wow, nice results. How do you practice squan?


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## newtonbase (Mar 26, 2017)

JanW said:


> I do Ortega.
> 
> Okay, it's a bit of an exaggeration to say I haven't practiced it at all. I keep my 2x2, 4x4 and 5x5 on a shelf by the TV. When I'm watching something on TV I usually play around with a cube. Most of the time it's a 3x3, but sometimes I reach for one of the other sizes. So over the past few months I have occasionally picked up the 2x2 to refresh my memory. No more frequently than maybe once every few weeks, but enough to not forget the Ortega algs.


I don't think I've solved anything outside 3x3 in 6 weeks or so. I've only timed 3BLD and MBLD. That's what happens when you aren't signed up for a comp (before July).


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## chtiger (Mar 26, 2017)

h2f said:


> Wow, nice results. How do you practice squan?


I don't practice much. Typically 5 solves per day when practicing for a comp. I've learned the EO and CP algs (I practiced more when learning those), haven't learned any EP algs yet.



mafergut said:


> @chtiger Those are really nice results! Very nice 3x3 and SQ1 singles and skewb average. Sorry about clock. You still have lots of PBs you can set on big cubes if you decide to try them at your next comp


Thanks. 
For big cubes, I'd still have to make the hard cutoff to get a PB. To let you know how bad my big cubes are, the last time I tried 4x4, I had an easy solve and was still over 3:00. Then I wondered if I could use r2 (the 4bld method) for edges and do better. So I spent an afternoon doing 4x4 using r2 for edges (would look at 2 targets, solve those, look at next 2 targets, solve, etc), and eventually got a PB single 2:22 (previous was 2:23). I've briefly looked at Yau, but was confused with something, and didn't continue with it. It's on my to-do list for this year.
I've attempted the same number of 5x5 solves as I have 5bld solves (1), and don't own a 6x6 or 7x7.


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## h2f (Mar 26, 2017)

chtiger said:


> I don't practice much. Typically 5 solves per day when practicing for a comp. I've learned the EO and CP algs (I practiced more when learning those), haven't learned any EP algs yet.



Impressive. I've heard a lot about small practice like this. Polish champ in megaminx (52.xx on average) used to use it in practicing it. I must try it in events I dont do a lot.


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## newtonbase (Mar 26, 2017)

It does make sense to do small amounts of practice just to maintain rather than cramming the week before a comp like I do occasionally*


*Every single time.


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## Logiqx (Mar 27, 2017)

pipkiksass said:


> Has anyone spent any time on CubeSkills.com? I haven't had the opportunity yet, as I gently ease myself back in to the world of work. @David Zemdegs, I really hope Feliks can find a reliable way to monetise cubing - I think he's a great ambassador for cubing in general, and it would be a shame if real life and/or a job intruded on his practice time!



Feliks has clearly put a lot of time + effort into cubeskills.com and I've watched a lot of the videos. I've also subscribed because I think he deserves the financial reward for the amount of time / knowledge / insight he is putting back into the community.

So far, I've been through all of the intermediate videos and some of the advanced videos. I'll go through the remaining advanced videos slowly because what is covered in a couple of minutes video may well turn into several weeks of practice!



David Zemdegs said:


> I hope to find the time to go through his videos as well. Feliks is working very hard on his website and there will be heaps more stuff added in the future. I'm really looking forward to competing at the Worlds! My aim is not to be the slowest



I'd heartily recommend his videos to you... everything that you need is in one place and well organised!

Several of the regulars from this thread will be in Paris (especially the UK contingent) and it'll be cool to meet fellow oldies (and youngsters) from other countries.


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## mark49152 (Mar 27, 2017)

Logiqx said:


> Several of the regulars from this thread will be in Paris (especially the UK contingent) and it'll be cool to meet fellow oldies (and youngsters) from other countries.


This is what I am most looking forward to about Paris. I'm especially excited to have the chance to meet the pioneers of the early cubing community and others who have accomplished or contributed enormously over the years.


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## newtonbase (Mar 27, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> This is what I am most looking forward to about Paris. I'm especially excited to have the chance to meet the pioneers of the early cubing community and others who have accomplished or contributed enormously over the years.


Me too. The thing that bothers me most about going for the weekend only is not missing events but missing out on meeting as many of the top cubers and guys who have made cubing what it is. I'll be expecting you lot to do the groundwork so you can introduce me.


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## newtonbase (Mar 27, 2017)

4/6 MBLD in 53:59. Missed a word in recall on one cube and last letter memo error on another (instinct told me what I should have done but I trusted the memo). Pretty happy as it was very close and I'm sure I could do at least 7 in the hour at a careful pace and more once my pairs are embedded a little better.


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## newtonbase (Mar 27, 2017)

Also, keeping your eyes closed tight for over 10 mins is really uncomfortable.


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## mark49152 (Mar 27, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> Also, keeping your eyes closed tight for over 10 mins is really uncomfortable.


Yeah MBLD is the only event where I do always use a blindfold in practice.


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## newtonbase (Mar 27, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> Yeah MBLD is the only event where I do always use a blindfold in practice.


I would at home but don't fancy it in the work kitchen. I look weird enough already.


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## phreaker (Mar 27, 2017)

BLD update: My execution is finally solidifying. I really like using the Gans AIR UM for this work. Still over-memoing. Soon it will be time to push on memo...

OH Update: PB down to 44.025. Starting to see more sub 50 solves... Getting to where I can ALMOST call myself sub 60. The variance in my solves right now is astounding, But I'm trying to work on why.. and get it under control.

Still need more practice with OLL/PLL and to fix some of my OLLs. (I've only got 7! One would think I'd get them right.) I may also have to replace my G perms... we'll see.

My time breakdowns are about right, from what I can tell. Just need more practice.


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## Logiqx (Mar 27, 2017)

Who was asking about OH Y-Perm a little while ago?

Antoine has created a new video -


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## newtonbase (Mar 27, 2017)

phreaker said:


> BLD update: My execution is finally solidifying. I really like using the Gans AIR UM for this work. Still over-memoing. Soon it will be time to push on memo...


No time like the present.


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## phreaker (Mar 27, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> No time like the present.


Indeed. And it will speed up practice, just more DNFs.


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## Shaky Hands (Mar 28, 2017)

A few notes on my progress to update on:

1. I've done some experimentation with solving on Yellow Cross. This is going well with a 25.58 Ao12 this week, which is only 2-3 seconds off what I get with White Cross, so I think I can aim to get dual colour-neutral with a bit more practice.

2. Since the previous comp, I've managed to get another 5 OLL cases to a familiarity level that I can confidently use in speedsolves. I'm going to try to do this with another 2 OLL algs before the next comp.

3. I've been doing a steady amount of Megaminx practice; making good improvements and so am likely to get a couple of solves in at the next comp if I change my registration. I'm a long way off being able to record an average in it though.

4. I went through all the F2L cases and compared my move-count to a set of algs online (badmephisto's algs, so possible out-of-date but a fair place to start from.) For some cases I'm doing 4-5 more moves than I need to and this has made me realise I really need to embed better F2L skills into my solves. For example for the case (R U2 R') U' (R U R') I usually solve with U' (R U' R') U2 (R U2 R') (U R U' R') and for the case (R U' R') U' (R U R') U2 (R U' R') I usually solve with (R U R') d2 (L U2 L') U' (L U L') U (L U' L')! Plenty of scope to improve times if I can embed some better algs into my solves and if nothing else it proves the value of reviewing F2L solutions periodically.

Unfortunately, my work has got in the way of me being able to make it to FMC Europe this coming weekend, so have had to let the delegates know I can't attend anymore and will miss seeing @bubbagrub there.  Hope you do well though buddy.


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## Logiqx (Mar 28, 2017)

@Shaky Hands - I don't think it's uncommon to miss the first alg you mentioned. Definitely good to be experimenting and reviewing online resources to avoid these oversights. Feliks has uploaded an F2L cheat sheet in the intermediate section of cubeskills btw. Probably worth a look.


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## bubbagrub (Mar 28, 2017)

Shaky Hands said:


> Unfortunately, my work has got in the way of me being able to make it to FMC Europe this coming weekend, so have had to let the delegates know I can't attend anymore and will miss seeing @bubbagrub there.  Hope you do well though buddy.



Ah -- thanks Andy. Sorry to miss you this coming weekend. I'll be flying back from California on Friday, so I'll be doing an interesting experiment to see how my FMC skills are affected by jet-lag...


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## pglewis (Mar 28, 2017)

Shaky Hands said:


> and for the case (R U' R') U' (R U R') U2 (R U' R')



It's interesting to note that if you do an x rotation this is the same as your first example case. I think it's of dubious utility, but you could bring them out undisturbed with a hedge-slammer (F R' F' R, probably in muscle memory from flipping edges on 4x4) and be setup for the first example.

From the department of sledgehammer abuse is double-sledge to solve F2L 29. I'm actually liking this one in speedsolves, even if they're not in the correct slot a single sledge still joins the pair. I'm comfortable with it from either side, so as soon as I spot the case it's just a matter of sledging once or twice. 



Shaky Hands said:


> if nothing else it proves the value of reviewing F2L solutions periodically





Logiqx said:


> Feliks has uploaded an F2L cheat sheet in the intermediate section of cubeskills btw. Probably worth a look.



Good reminders, and bookmarked resource. I have a few remaining that still give me fits, I should stop what I'm doing when that happens and re-examine those cases. 

Where I continue to really struggle is finding the correct orientation to split a pair or bring them over the top when I'm down to the last slot, or even last two sometimes. I just don't see it and register it well. I've yet to find a fast, non-thinking way to get there and then things like y3 happen because my hands are bored while I consult the thinking bits. Lots of other aspects are becoming more automatic but this one doesn't seem to want to budge.


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## JanW (Mar 28, 2017)

pglewis said:


> Where I continue to really struggle is finding the correct orientation to split a pair or bring them over the top when I'm down to the last slot, or even last two sometimes. I just don't see it and register it well. I've yet to find a fast, non-thinking way to get there and then things like y3 happen because my hands are bored while I consult the thinking bits. Lots of other aspects are becoming more automatic but this one doesn't seem to want to budge.


Always know where the empty slot is and always turn away from the empty slot. Not sure what else would help here. But I know the problem, sometimes I do lots of unnecessary AUFing as well.

A few weeks ago I realized something new about F2L. If the corner is in the slot wrongly oriented, then it doesn't matter where the white is pointing, I should always bring the edge piece in the top layer to the position where the edge color matches the center, then it's in the correct position to turn away from the slot. Maybe this is standard knowledge for everyone else, but for me it was quite a revelation when I realized it. Before that I always had to study the corner in the slot carefully to know where to place my edge piece.


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## muchacho (Mar 28, 2017)

31.766 OH Mo100, it seems I'll be able to reach sub-30, but I'm not sure about my sub-25 goal, I'll need algs and a better cube for that... for those that have used a Weilong (not the GTS) and a Valk3 for OH, how much better is it?


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## Fyzzna (Mar 28, 2017)

Did my first ao50 today: 48.59. Also got a single PB of 33.89 and an ao5 PB of 42.18


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## Shaky Hands (Mar 28, 2017)

pglewis said:


> and then things like y3 happen





Hope you manage to break that habbit! 



muchacho said:


> 31.766 OH Mo100, it seems I'll be able to reach sub-30, but I'm not sure about my sub-25 goal, I'll need algs and a better cube for that... for those that have used a Weilong (not the GTS) and a Valk3 for OH, how much better is it?



I noticed you got your best times in the Race thread this week. Well done.


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## phreaker (Mar 28, 2017)

muchacho said:


> 31.766 OH Mo100, it seems I'll be able to reach sub-30, but I'm not sure about my sub-25 goal, I'll need algs and a better cube for that... for those that have used a Weilong (not the GTS) and a Valk3 for OH, how much better is it?



I have a mini-Weilong, I could never setup right.... I never liked it. Valk 3, especially with magnets... it has helped my times quite a bit.


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## muchacho (Mar 28, 2017)

The last OH single that I uploaded to Youtube was 28 seconds or so, so I've uploaded a 21.8 one... that should have been sub-20 if I'd paid attention during LSE.


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## pglewis (Mar 28, 2017)

muchacho said:


> The last OH single that I uploaded to Youtube was 28 seconds or so, so I've uploaded a 21.8 one... that should have been sub-20 if I'd paid attention during LSE.



Roux OH FTW! Roux solves always seem so elegant to me, it's a joy to watch.


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## CLL Smooth (Mar 28, 2017)

muchacho said:


> 31.766 OH Mo100, it seems I'll be able to reach sub-30, but I'm not sure about my sub-25 goal, I'll need algs and a better cube for that... for those that have used a Weilong (not the GTS) and a Valk3 for OH, how much better is it?


I used a mini Weilong v2 for OH for quite awhile and recently switched to the Valk. My times have only slightly improved due to practice but I do think it feels better. Finish learning those CMLLs.


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## newtonbase (Mar 28, 2017)

phreaker said:


> I have a mini-Weilong, I could never setup right.... I never liked it. Valk 3, especially with magnets... it has helped my times quite a bit.


I was disappointed to find that there is no space for magnets in the mini Weilong.


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## pglewis (Mar 28, 2017)

A concrete example of one that sometimes gives me fits is F2L 15 (and the mirror, 16; this applies to both since I lump them together as "the same case" mentally but I'll use 15 as the example for the specifics). 

My first instinct for the general case is to flip the corner's orientation by going over the top of the edge. To do the quickest flip and insert I can execute, I end up with a rotation then a rotation back. 

The above approach is more palatable to me when the edge is misoriented: split over the top, then rotate to orient for the insert. Edge was misoriented and I did exactly one 90 degree rotation, perfectly acceptable. But when I see the edge is already oriented I'd really, really like to be able to invoke a general "don't rotate" rule and this violates it. The first intuitive stab at addressing that problem is 100% equivalent: flip the corner orientation with F layer turns rather than a rotation and L layer turns. Move efficient and rotationless but a little awkward and unflowing for me. Might just be a matter of practice. 

An R turn is slot-safe with the slot's orientation so a different approach would be to flip the corner's orientation that way, bringing the bottom layer sticker to the top and resulting in a rotationless, regripless, R/U 2-gen approach. Less move efficient but maybe trigger/finger-trick loaded enough to compensate. 

After deconstructing, the one I think I'm sold on isn't as obvious. With the pair opposite the slot, a sledgehammer will flip the corner's orientation without touching the edge, leaving a quick AUF and insert. Rotationless and I always welcome new members to the Department of Sledgehammer Abuse. Remains to be seen if this works as well while solving in anger as it does in theory. I do still think it's worth considering different ways of handling this case based on the edge orientation at the time, regardless.


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## mark49152 (Mar 28, 2017)

pglewis said:


> Remains to be seen if this works as well while solving in anger as it does in theory.


It does, I use this and several other sledgehammer based solutions. The only drawback is that they aren't so nice at the back. Sometimes I'll use different solutions when mirroring thise cases to back slots.


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## chtiger (Mar 29, 2017)

Lubed and cleaned my clock really good today, and then got a PB 8.99 ao12. I'm gonna get greedy and change my comp goal to sub-10 (then maybe I can actually get sub-11)


Spoiler: times and scrambles



Average of 12: 8.99
1. 9.71 UR0+ DR3+ DL5+ UL3+ U3+ R4- D3+ L2+ ALL2+ y2 U3- R5+ D2+ L1+ ALL3+ UL
2. 10.13 UR4+ DR0+ DL4+ UL2+ U3- R0+ D1+ L3+ ALL3- y2 U3- R2+ D3+ L5+ ALL1+ UR UL
3. 8.83 UR5+ DR4+ DL6+ UL0+ U0+ R5- D3+ L2- ALL2+ y2 U1- R4- D0+ L5- ALL5+
4. 9.28 UR5+ DR5- DL2- UL3- U1+ R4- D3+ L2+ ALL1+ y2 U4+ R0+ D0+ L2- ALL5+ UR DR DL
5. 8.27 UR1- DR3+ DL1- UL3+ U2+ R3- D4+ L4+ ALL6+ y2 U5+ R4- D3- L5- ALL6+ DR DL
6. 8.59 UR2+ DR1+ DL3- UL2+ U5+ R0+ D4- L2- ALL5+ y2 U0+ R3- D4- L3- ALL1+ UR DR DL
7. 8.74 UR1- DR6+ DL3+ UL5- U4- R0+ D2+ L4- ALL0+ y2 U0+ R1+ D3- L6+ ALL2+ DL UL
8. (DNF(9.45)) UR4- DR5- DL5- UL5- U1+ R0+ D5- L2+ ALL0+ y2 U3- R1- D3- L2- ALL0+
9. 8.30 UR1+ DR4+ DL0+ UL4- U4+ R0+ D2- L5+ ALL4+ y2 U4- R1+ D3+ L3- ALL5+ UR UL
10. 8.42 UR0+ DR1- DL5- UL3+ U3+ R6+ D2+ L1+ ALL3- y2 U1- R0+ D4- L0+ ALL3+ DR
11. 9.60 UR5+ DR3+ DL4- UL3+ U1- R2+ D4- L4- ALL3- y2 U3+ R3+ D1+ L4+ ALL0+ UR
12. (8.03) UR3- DR5+ DL3+ UL5+ U1+ R1+ D3+ L3+ ALL2+ y2 U5+ R2- D4+ L5+ ALL6+ UR DL



For those who like easy 3x3 scrambles, I had this 2 move x-cross
L2 F2 U2 F' R2 U L U L F' D2 B' L2 F U2 F D2 F' R2
I only got a 16.71, which is really good for me but not for that scramble, then got 9.75 after a few more tries.


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## Lid (Mar 29, 2017)

sub 9 sq1 single! Too bad is was lucky ...
8.891: (-5, 0) / (0, 3) / (6, 0) / (2, -4) / (4, -5) / (5, -1) / (0, -5) / (-3, -3) / (-4, -3) / (-4, 0) / (4, 0)
-4,0/-4,4/-1,0/-3,-3/ | CS (4-2/pair), not the most common way to do this shape, but it only leaves me with F/F as PBL
2,-3/-1,2/-2,-2/3,0/ : pure J/J corner swap
/3,-3/-1,-1/-2,4/-1,6 : op/op EP no flip, for the end
12 twists

More common ways to do the CS:
-2,2/-2,0/-1,-2/-3,-3/ : this leads to parity
-4,0/4,0/1,0/-3,-3/ : no parity this way
possible solution after:
3,-4/-2,-2/ : OBL
3,-3/0,3/-3,-3/3,0 : CP (JJ)
/3,0/-1,-1/-2,1/5,0 : EP (adj/adj)
13 twists

or
3,2/-2,-2/ : for OBL and we have once again F/F as PBL

Another bad, no sq-1 next comp


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## muchacho (Mar 29, 2017)

When is your next comp?


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## Lid (Mar 29, 2017)

muchacho said:


> When is your next comp?


Next weekend, it "just" has 2-7,OH,skewb,pyra,fmc & some "crap" bld


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## muchacho (Mar 29, 2017)

Good luck! For me 3x3 and OH would be enough, I've forgotten most of the few others I learned to solve.


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## moralsh (Mar 29, 2017)

hi everybody, long time without posting here.

I see lot of us registered to worlds, and I've been told some of us are also registered as staff, Do you guys have everything booked? I'm planning to get plane tickets this week and the hotel soon enough, can't wait to meet some of you!

I have had a very busy year so far with very little cubing, but I plan get back to it from easter onwards to try to have a good comp on mid May and to get ready for worlds.

Last weekend I had a comp in which I could just be there for an hour (I only did 2x and 3x first round) and did my first comp without PBs. I had memory lapses remembering PBLs in 2x2 and had two +2 and some judging problems on 3x3 but at least my comp count is now 20, how are you guys?


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## newtonbase (Mar 29, 2017)

moralsh said:


> hi everybody, long time without posting here.
> 
> I see lot of us registered to worlds, and I've been told some of us are also registered as staff, Do you guys have everything booked? I'm planning to get plane tickets this week and the hotel soon enough, can't wait to meet some of you!
> 
> ...


Hotel and train booked. Only doing pyraminx and 3BLD so better get a PB. Doubt I'll be at any other comp before this.


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## muchacho (Mar 29, 2017)

Ao5 PB: 15.321 ...done in the WC, maybe a bit of pressure is not bad.


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## Shaky Hands (Mar 29, 2017)

moralsh said:


> I see lot of us registered to worlds, and I've been told some of us are also registered as staff, Do you guys have everything booked? I'm planning to get plane tickets this week and the hotel soon enough, can't wait to meet some of you!



Yes, I'm all booked. Look forward to meeting you too.


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## Lazy Einstein (Mar 29, 2017)

Shaky Hands said:


> Yes, I'm all booked. Look forward to meeting you too.


Wish I could go to World's, I am super jealous
. Number 4, my daughter is going to be born near or around World's. Have fun.


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## Logiqx (Mar 29, 2017)

moralsh said:


> I see lot of us registered to worlds, and I've been told some of us are also registered as staff, Do you guys have everything booked? I'm planning to get plane tickets this week and the hotel soon enough, can't wait to meet some of you!



I've booked my trains and accommodation. I'm also on the staff list for Thursday and Sunday.

All of the U.K. oldies are booked into the Novotel just a few minutes walk from the venue.


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## Logiqx (Mar 29, 2017)

pglewis said:


> A concrete example of one that sometimes gives me fits is F2L 15 (and the mirror, 16; this applies to both since I lump them together as "the same case" mentally but I'll use 15 as the example for the specifics).
> 
> My first instinct for the general case is to flip the corner's orientation by going over the top of the edge. To do the quickest flip and insert I can execute, I end up with a rotation then a rotation back.
> 
> ...



Another popular solution for case 15 is r' R U r U' r' U' M'. The r' R is just an alternative execution of M.

I don't often use the M slice during F2L but this one is a nice alg and can be mirrored to the back slots.

If the BR slot is empty then you can obviously use U' (R' U R) U' (R U R') for case 15.


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## sqAree (Mar 29, 2017)

Logiqx said:


> Another popular solution for case 15 is r' R U r U' r' U' M'. The r' R is just an alternative execution of M.



I would recommend using l U r U' r' U' l' instead which is the same idea but easier to fingertrick in my opinion.
Probably one of the fastest F2L cases, however, I don't use it because it destroys my look-ahead (pref 2-gen RU).


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## Logiqx (Mar 29, 2017)

sqAree said:


> I would recommend using l U r U' r' U' l' instead which is the same idea but easier to fingertrick in my opinion.
> Probably one of the fastest F2L cases, however, I don't use it because it destroys my look-ahead (pref 2-gen RU).



I still use RU but I was reminded of the RUM alg when watching Feliks' F2L algs video on cubeskills.com

The lrU alg seems worse for lookahead imho.


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## pglewis (Mar 30, 2017)

Looks like it's time for the task I've been putting off: spamming OLLs and PLLs for TPS. Up until now I've just let them develop naturally since I've had double digits of time to cut. Today I spent the time to do a full reconstruction of my recorded :25 solve and was shocked when my first few attempts were slower than the one I did on the fly... solving the same, but knowing what was coming and without the last layer hiccups and U3. It took multiple attempts before I got one sub 20 and I was generally in the 18s after several repeated solves, even with total omniscience. Best was a 17.81 until a final, completely smooth one that also normalized the R turns between the end of Pi and Ab landed a 16.14. If my lookahead were ideal today I'd be dragged down by my last layer speed.


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## h2f (Mar 30, 2017)

I've realized I have to spam my OLLs and PLLs too. My TPS sucks during LL.

I got Valk3 M in stickered version few days ago. It's magnetized my old and broken in Valk. It feels great and it looks like it fits to my habits in 3bld. 

And I got first signs of 5 solves per day in squan: first ao5 sub 1 minute.


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## Logiqx (Mar 30, 2017)

h2f said:


> I've realized I have to spam my OLLs and PLLs too. My TPS sucks during LL.
> 
> I got Valk3 M in stickered version few days ago. It's magnetized my old and broken in Valk. It feels great and it looks like it fits to my habits in 3bld.
> 
> And I got first signs of 5 solves per day in squan: first ao5 sub 1 minute.



Just today, I received a dispatch email from the cubicle for a black Valk M + stickerless Valk M.

I ordered them some time ago so I'm looking forward to receiving them next week.


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## h2f (Mar 30, 2017)

Logiqx said:


> Just today, I received a dispatch email from the cubicle for a black Valk M + stickerless Valk M.
> 
> I ordered them some time ago so I'm looking forward to receiving them next week.



 I wonder how it differs to main which was made by one of my friends - he's a very good moder of cubes and he asked me about strenght of magnets I wish. He also showed me so many ways of adding magnets and showed few ideas about adding magnets. I didnt know there's so many ways of doing it.


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## pipkiksass (Mar 30, 2017)

Long time no post, sucks not having tapatalk, but I need to try this /forum URL and see if it works. Also, going back to work after 6 months off, so I have little or no cubing time these days! 

Anyway, CSTimer just gave me this STUPID scramble. Should've been massive PB (sub-11?), but I lost my grip on the cube during my regrip for A perm, and nearly dropped it:

Generated By csTimer on 2017-3-30
single: 13.74

Time List:
1. 13.74 R D F2 D' U2 B2 L2 R' D U' L B' F D R' L' U B' U R L' B2 F2 D' U'

Have fun, pretty sure it'll be sub-10able for many of you.


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## newtonbase (Mar 30, 2017)

Logiqx said:


> Just today, I received a dispatch email from the cubicle for a black Valk M + stickerless Valk M.
> 
> I ordered them some time ago so I'm looking forward to receiving them next week.


Did you not consider making your own?


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## Logiqx (Mar 30, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> Did you not consider making your own?



I briefly considered that option but I'd prefer to use my time for other activities.


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## Shaky Hands (Mar 30, 2017)

pipkiksass said:


> Long time no post, sucks not having tapatalk, but I need to try this /forum URL and see if it works. Also, going back to work after 6 months off, so I have little or no cubing time these days!
> 
> Anyway, CSTimer just gave me this STUPID scramble. Should've been massive PB (sub-11?), but I lost my grip on the cube during my regrip for A perm, and nearly dropped it:
> 
> ...



I didn't time it but I got a PLL skip with 2-look OLL:

z2 // inspection
F // cross
L U' L' U' R U R' // 1st pair
y R' U R U L U2 L' R U' R' // 2nd pair
U' R' U R // 3rd pair
U' L U' L' U2 L U' L' // 4th pair
U F R U R' U' F' U r U R' U' r' F R F' // OLL
U' // AUF


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## newtonbase (Mar 30, 2017)

4/6 MBLD in 45:40. 2 memo errors despite reviews. 1 missed one twisted corner and memo'd one wrong letter on another twisted corner. I'd made the exact same error on an earlier cube and realised during the solve but couldn't work out what had gone wrong on this one


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## Fyzzna (Mar 30, 2017)

Got a 24.78 single PB! (I did jump out of my chair a bit when that happened). Also 34.92 ao5 and 36.44 ao12


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## mark49152 (Mar 30, 2017)

15 minute 5BLD DNF, would have been PB. Twisted the final corner the wrong way. Arrgghh!


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## newtonbase (Mar 30, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> 15 minute 5BLD DNF, would have been PB. Twisted the final corner the wrong way. Arrgghh!


O dear. Unlucky. 

Am I right in thinking 5bld is roughly 5 x 3BLD.


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## Shaky Hands (Mar 30, 2017)

Fyzzna said:


> Got a 24.78 single PB! (I did jump out of my chair a bit when that happened). Also 34.92 ao5 and 36.44 ao12



Is that your first sub-25s single? Congratulations.

Feel free to take part in the weekly Race to Sub-30 in the Forum Competitions. That helped me focus on reducing my average during 2016 to the extent I ended up taking over running the thread.


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## Fyzzna (Mar 30, 2017)

Shaky Hands said:


> Is that your first sub-25s single? Congratulations.
> 
> Feel free to take part in the weekly Race to Sub-30 in the Forum Competitions. That helped me focus on reducing my average during 2016 to the extent I ended up taking over running the thread.


Yes it was, thank you 

That thread looks interesting, I'll be sure to check it out.


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## mark49152 (Mar 30, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> Am I right in thinking 5bld is roughly 5 x 3BLD.


Closer to 4x. I use four rooms - X-centres, T-centres, wings, and midges/corners sharing one room. These are the same rooms I use for MBLD, one cube each. Centres and wings are typically about 18-22 targets so very similar size memo to an MBLD cube.

Memo is trickier and execution more fiddly though, so I'd say it's harder than a 4-cube MBLD.


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## newtonbase (Mar 30, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> Closer to 4x. I use four rooms - X-centres, T-centres, wings, and midges/corners sharing one room. These are the same rooms I use for MBLD, one cube each. Centres and wings are typically about 18-22 targets so very similar size memo to an MBLD cube.
> 
> Memo is trickier and execution more fiddly though, so I'd say it's harder than a 4-cube MBLD.


In my sleep deprived, MBLD addled brain I calculated 8 sets of centre pieces! 
5BLD doesn't sound terribly scary but I still haven't had a proper go at 4BLD. I'm off with the kids all next week so can't see that I'll be able to do any MBLD. Maybe it's the right opportunity to work on 4BLD.


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## pglewis (Mar 30, 2017)

Fyzzna said:


> Got a 24.78 single PB! (I did jump out of my chair a bit when that happened). Also 34.92 ao5 and 36.44 ao12



Whoa, that's insane given your update from two days ago . I've been on the "slow but steady" track, averaging mid to upper 40s back in Sept. I think you've wrapped up the same progress I've made over 4-5 months in the past two days. I'm averaging roughly 32-33 with sights on mid 20s soon. You'll have passed me by the weekend .


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## pglewis (Mar 30, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> 15 minute 5BLD DNF, would have been PB. Twisted the final corner the wrong way. Arrgghh!



That's just cruel.


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## pglewis (Mar 30, 2017)

h2f said:


> I've realized I have to spam my OLLs and PLLs too. My TPS sucks during LL.



I've started tracking alg times in my spreadsheet for some of the PLLs last night to get a baseline, keeping in mind these are all my best efforts out of probably a dozen+ attempts per. Few sub 2 at my best and it does not take much to sink to 4-5 seconds or worse. It would probably be on the rare side for me to do any particular one this fast which is likely the difference between my mid 20s and my rarer low 20s.

H: 2.08
Z: 2.53
Ua: 1.6
Ub: 1.87
E: 2.24
Y: 2.28
T: 2.24
F: 3.08
Ja: 2.23
Jb: 2.18

Those are my fastest ones, too, I'd expect most of the remainder to be sup 3 at the very best right now. There's pay dirt to be had.

[edit: baseline for the rest]

Na: 2.98 (start already z'ed)
Nb: 3.24
V: 2.38 (start already z'ed)
Aa: 2.35
Ab: 2.34
Ra: 3.08
Rb: 2.55
Ga: 2.46
Gb: 2.47
Gc: 3.01
Gd: 2.61


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## mafergut (Mar 30, 2017)

Too busy at work these days and without tapatalk I can't check the forum too often. Congrats on all those PBs! Very interesting posts about how to deal with certain F2L cases (giving me some nice ideas to try).

I received my Yan3. First impression was bad, plastic looked bad quality and unpolished and the cube felt lockier than the Valk3. But after a few solves it started to grow on me and I kind of liked how well it flowed... Thenm after like an Ao50 or so it started to break in and felt less stable so my turning got more inaccurate.

Conclusion: very nice cube for the price. It also seems like a very good option for magnetizing as it would mitigate the instability, leaving me with a cube that just flows very nice. Thinking about buying some magnets for an easter vacaction project.

I also received the CB G6 but I have not solved it yet. I will give my 1st impressions over the weekend when I have more time to play with it. At first glance outer layers turn nice but inner slices not so much, also inner slice misalignment, even if minimal, generate lockups on the outer layers. Also size is a bit big for my taste. All in all I think it deserves an opportunity and certainly does not feel bad at all for the price.


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## Jason Green (Mar 31, 2017)

muchacho said:


> Ao5 PB: 15.321 ...done in the WC, maybe a bit of pressure is not bad.


Hey I thought you were letting me stay ahead on averages.  Good job!



Shaky Hands said:


> Is that your first sub-25s single? Congratulations.
> 
> Feel free to take part in the weekly Race to Sub-30 in the Forum Competitions. That helped me focus on reducing my average during 2016 to the extent I ended up taking over running the thread.


The races are great! They really helped me from over 30 down to sub 20. I haven't been participating in the sub 15 race because I still rarely go sub 15 though.


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## mafergut (Mar 31, 2017)

First impressions on the CB G6.

It was a bit too tight out of the box so I unscrewed it a quarter turn on each face and it improved a bit. When perfectly aligned outer layers are quite light to turn but any minor misalignment can cause it to lock and, in the end, even though I get more or less the same times as with the Yuxin it leaves me very, very tired after just a couple of solves.

At these tight tensions it does not have any of those weird piece misalignments / lockups between layers as other puzzles do. Maybe I should try to loosen it up another quarter turn and see what happens (it will probably pop).

Nice puzzle but I don't think it's on par with the current top cubes from Moyu, Qiyi and Yuxin.

EDIT: By the way, I ordered a pack of 50 N35 4mmx2mm for the Yan3. In fact I ordered from two different places. magnets365 and ebay. ebay was just 1 €, magnets365 was $5. Let's see which ones arrive first and if there is any difference in quality.


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## One Wheel (Mar 31, 2017)

mafergut said:


> First impressions on the CB G6.
> 
> It was a bit too tight out of the box so I unscrewed it a quarter turn on each face and it improved a bit. When perfectly aligned outer layers are quite light to turn but any minor misalignment can cause it to lock and, in the end, even though I get more or less the same times as with the Yuxin it leaves me very, very tired after just a couple of solves.
> 
> ...



Would the inner structure of the pieces of the G6 be conducive to inserting magnets? I think I'm going to do my Aoshi and mini Aosu first, and probably try a Wuji and a galaxy megaminx after that, but if those work I might try another 6x6.


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## mafergut (Mar 31, 2017)

One Wheel said:


> Would the inner structure of the pieces of the G6 be conducive to inserting magnets? I think I'm going to do my Aoshi and mini Aosu first, and probably try a Wuji and a galaxy megaminx after that, but if those work I might try another 6x6.


I can't even imagine how magnets would do any good to a 6x6, in case they fitted in the pieces, which I really doubt. I think for the magnets to really help aligning the layers the cube would have to be so loose that it would just explode every few turns.


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## One Wheel (Mar 31, 2017)

mafergut said:


> I can't even imagine how magnets would do any good to a 6x6, in case they fitted in the pieces, which I really doubt. I think for the magnets to really help aligning the layers the cube would have to be so loose that it would just explode every few turns.



4x2mm fits in the corners and outer wings of my Aoshi. I had to get 3x1 mm magnets to go along the inner slice, which will work out because those have to be doubled anyway. As far as effectiveness, I think it could be very effective for helping to maintain cube shape, especially in the 3x3 stage. It could be a complete flop, but I'm happy with the 2 3x3s I've magnetized, and I've heard good things about 4x4s and 5x5s that people have done. I'm going to give it a shot, we'll see what happens.


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## mafergut (Mar 31, 2017)

One Wheel said:


> 4x2mm fits in the corners and outer wings of my Aoshi. I had to get 3x1 mm magnets to go along the inner slice, which will work out because those have to be doubled anyway. As far as effectiveness, I think it could be very effective for helping to maintain cube shape, especially in the 3x3 stage. It could be a complete flop, but I'm happy with the 2 3x3s I've magnetized, and I've heard good things about 4x4s and 5x5s that people have done. I'm going to give it a shot, we'll see what happens.


Yeah, sure, go ahead and tell us how it goes. You see, I said I wouldn't do it but now I'm gonna make a magnetic Yan3 myself  By the way, after solving with it for 1 day now my Vallk3 seems sluggish and super stable in comparison.


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## pglewis (Mar 31, 2017)

mafergut said:


> Yeah, sure, go ahead and tell us how it goes. You see, I said I wouldn't do it but now I'm gonna make a magnetic Yan3 myself  By the way, after solving with it for 1 day now my Vallk3 seems sluggish and super stable in comparison.



I continue to wrestle with the sluggish Valk syndrome. I did a full break-down and full cleaning of my stickerless last week, complete with q-tips, to get the gunk out. Reassembled and only put 2 drops of Silk in and worked it in. It was incredible. About six hours of solving later and it had slowed again. I think it's just the nature of the cube that it slows up with any gunking at all. My Thunderclaps are probably a wreck with gunk but they don't seem to care, with months between cleanings. A couple drops of Maru in the Valk helps; it might be a smidge too fast for me on the first solve or three then it's right where I want it for a session. 

This is all keeping in mind that I'm trending towards a light turning style and currently like a fast, light cube. Ironically, it was the Valk's feel out of the box that sent me this direction. It's still mostly a minor "flaw" to me where others might think mine is fine or even fast. I still reach for it most when I'm serious about setting a PB and it is responsible for most of my best PLL times I collected the past couple days.


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## pglewis (Mar 31, 2017)

Ra was probably the most unexpected result of my PLL baseline. It's one of my oldest established PLLs and my perception was it was above average... certainly not among my slowest. Mine has been the primary 2H one @Logiqx lists: R U R' F' R U2 R' U2 R' F R U R U2 R' U'. I had difficulty making it flow well with the placement of the three U2s, when I broke it down on a micro-level. I decided to consider a replacement and the OH version he lists may be perfect: R U' R' U' R U R D R' U' R D' R' U2' R' U'. I think I can really make that one flow well and I'll wager I can do it faster than the old one a week from now. Surprise agenda item.


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## mark49152 (Mar 31, 2017)

@pglewis, that's almost the one I use, except the inverse - try it, I like it better. For the other R perm I use the front/back mirror.


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## pglewis (Mar 31, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> @pglewis, that's almost the one I use, except the inverse - try it, I like it better. For the other R perm I use the front/back mirror.



Took me a moment of scratching my head before the light bulb came on, "dude, R is its own inverse" lol. Sure, I'll try that one on for size when I sit down tonight, no time like the present. 

Not sure I understand how to do the front/back mirror for Rb but that one is under scrutiny as well. I've been using a head-lights front alg and I'm considering swapping as many as possible to headlights left.


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## Shaky Hands (Mar 31, 2017)

pglewis said:


> and the OH version he lists may be perfect: R U' R' U' R U R D R' U' R D' R' U2' R' U'



That's what I use for 2H Ra. And also for BLD.


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## h2f (Apr 1, 2017)

pglewis said:


> R U' R' U' R U R D R' U' R D' R' U2' R' U'.





mark49152 said:


> except the inverse - try it, I like it better.



Yeah, I use it but i've never checked the inverse. Looks fine.


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## JanW (Apr 1, 2017)

pglewis said:


> Mine has been the primary 2H one @Logiqx lists: R U R' F' R U2 R' U2 R' F R U R U2 R' U'. I had difficulty making it flow well with the placement of the three U2s, when I broke it down on a micro-level. I decided to consider a replacement and the OH version he lists may be perfect: R U' R' U' R U R D R' U' R D' R' U2' R' U'.


I use the OH version for 2H as well. 

I am curious why both of those has a U' at the end. In practice that would only apply if you align the U face correctly and rotate the cube before performing PLL, which most likely is not the case. Besides, if you were going to do that, you would align it and rotate the cube so that the U' isn't needed. I guess it's listed in those algs for some kind of practice reason, to be able to set up and immediately solve with the same alg, but this seems very counter productive to me. No point teaching your fingers to perform unnecessary moves at the end of the alg.


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## mark49152 (Apr 1, 2017)

@JanW you are correct, just ignore the U', especially if doing the inverse


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## h2f (Apr 1, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> @JanW you are correct, just ignore the U', especially if doing the inverse



But it means other starting position (y) than in normal.


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## mark49152 (Apr 1, 2017)

h2f said:


> But it means other starting position (y) than in normal.


What is normal? I would not do a U to make it "normal" just so I can then start with a U'.


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## Logiqx (Apr 1, 2017)

Who'd have thought that Ra would cause so much conversation, lol.

I used the RUD alg for years but I find the RUF much better for big cubes and slightly more reliable for 2H. I think most people probably do the RUD alg.

It's crucial that you can double flick with your left hand for the RUF alg. Chris Olson did a finger trick video a long time ago.


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## Lid (Apr 1, 2017)

For Ra you can try this one (from Rob Yau): R U R' F' U' F R U R' F R' F' R2 U2 R'
Works well on big cubes.


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## JanW (Apr 1, 2017)

Today I did a complete reboot of my stickerless MeiYing. Cleaned everything thoroughly, put some 30k in the core and no other lube. What do you know, first 50 solves give new pb Ao50 and Ao12. Ao12 pb now 20.00, that sub-20 Ao12 didn't want to come just yet... But I'll get there! 

Picking a main is hard. Now I have to consider the MeiYing again as well. It is the cube that I used for my current pb single last year, so at least I know it can be very fast.


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## h2f (Apr 1, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> What is normal? I would not do a U to make it "normal" just so I can then start with a U'.



The inverse of it. By "normal" I meant the starting position which is of course up of the alg you use.


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## mafergut (Apr 1, 2017)

JanW said:


> Today I did a complete reboot of my stickerless MeiYing. Cleaned everything thoroughly, put some 30k in the core and no other lube. What do you know, first 50 solves give new pb Ao50 and Ao12. Ao12 pb now 20.00, that sub-20 Ao12 didn't want to come just yet... But I'll get there!
> 
> Picking a main is hard. Now I have to consider the MeiYing again as well. It is the cube that I used for my current pb single last year, so at least I know it can be very fast.


I picked today my Cubicle Premium Meiying (sadly it's stickered black, not stickerless) and, you guessed it, it feels very similar to the Yan3. I remembered it was quite unstable and that was the reason I never used it as my main but it's not bad at all and it looks like another cube that would greatly benefit from magnets.

EDIT: First sub 5:30 single (6x6): 5:28.59
EDIT2: And nice PB Ao5, including a pop of a center piece: 5:43.94 = (5:28.59), (6:08.84), 5:44.20[pop], 5:55.21, 5:32.38


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## bubbagrub (Apr 1, 2017)

FMC Europe today... Managed to improve on my result of 3xDNF from last year... 39, 32, 31. PB single and average. 

Some very impressive results from the comp in general, including lots of 21s and Harry's 23, 39, 22...


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## h2f (Apr 1, 2017)

bubbagrub said:


> including lots of 21s and Harry's 23, 39, 22..



I saw many 21 in 3rd solve. Congrats of your results - nice and impressive.


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## pglewis (Apr 1, 2017)

JanW said:


> I guess it's listed in those algs for some kind of practice reason, to be able to set up and immediately solve with the same alg, but this seems very counter productive to me. No point teaching your fingers to perform unnecessary moves at the end of the alg.



Exactly, I copy/pasted directly from my spreadsheet; it's in there that way because that realigns it to make it repeatable. In a real solve there's only a 25% chance it will align that way. If I put that U' into muscle memory it's probably a good recipe for more future U3s. Really good point, I'm gonna omit that while drilling and realign after stopping the timer. 



Logiqx said:


> It's crucial that you can double flick with your left hand for the RUF alg. Chris Olson did a finger trick video a long time ago.



That's where I got it, Chris's series is where I picked up most of my PLLs. I can't do U2 well at all OH, my fast double-flick requires both thumbs on the front: opposite hand holding the weight with the performing hand's thumb bracing against the move. If I have any fingers of the performing hand on the back to hold the weight then my middle finger's mobility is seriously hampered making things a lot slower as well as being prone to deforming the cube due to loss of turning accuracy. I only get full speed if I'm bracing with the thumb and leaving all fingers free on that hand. 

R' U2 is the trouble spot. I start the alg with my right thumb on the bottom to come up for the R U R' F', ending with thumb on the bottom. Without any re-grip my right thumb will again be on the bottom after the R U2 R', out of position and leaving the left to both hold the weight and do the U2. I should take a close look at how he executes it again but TBH the RUD alg immediately flows very well for me. Right thumb smoothly glides naturally throughout, guiding the whole alg without lifting. When I reach the lone U2 in context, my left is all set to support the weight for my right to do the double-flick.


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## mark49152 (Apr 1, 2017)

Nice results today @bubbagrub , congrats.


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## newtonbase (Apr 1, 2017)

bubbagrub said:


> FMC Europe today... Managed to improve on my result of 3xDNF from last year... 39, 32, 31. PB single and average.
> 
> Some very impressive results from the comp in general, including lots of 21s and Harry's 23, 39, 22...


Jet lag wasn't a problem then? Well done.


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## bubbagrub (Apr 1, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> Jet lag wasn't a problem then? Well done.



Thanks. A bottle of Dr Pepper seemed to do the job...


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## chtiger (Apr 2, 2017)

Second attempt at 5BLD, off by 3 centers again , same as my first attempt, except it was +centers this time instead of x-centers. Time improved from ~54 min to 38:16. 

Yesterday was better with ao5 PBs in 3x3:
(19.60), (16.15), 18.77, 17.96, 17.60 = 18.11

and clock:
8.24, 8.36, (8.05), (DNF(8.54)), 8.11 = 8.24


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## pglewis (Apr 2, 2017)

I can definitely end the internal Ra debate. The RUD one was good for a 2.28 and I was getting 2.5s with my GuHong and Aolong V2. I was able to get the RUF one down to 2.8 with a little spamming but it's clear the RUD one has about a half second advantage for me only two days after picking it up. I'll gladly take that free half second every time the alg shows up, all I gotta to is rewire the recall.


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## JanW (Apr 2, 2017)

pglewis said:


> Exactly, I copy/pasted directly from my spreadsheet; it's in there that way because that realigns it to make it repeatable. In a real solve there's only a 25% chance it will align that way. If I put that U' into muscle memory it's probably a good recipe for more future U3s. Really good point, I'm gonna omit that while drilling and realign after stopping the timer.


The RUD Ra alg is still repeatable without the U'. You'll just have to do it 3 times to get back to where you started. That's 50% more practice for the same price! 

In general I think the goal should be to always be able to tell how the top layer will end up aligned before or while performing PLL. Then you can automatically apply the correct amount of U/U' moves at the end, without another look. I can do this already for most PLLs and I know it in theory for R-perms, I just can't always work it out in practice for R-perms yet. Need to know my color scheme better.

Speaking of aligning the U layer, do people ever rotate the cube before performing PLL? If you see that the U layer is correctly aligned in relation to the rest of the cube, but not correctly aligned for you to solve the PLL, do you do AUF-PLL-AUF' or rotate cube then PLL? For some reason I tend to rotate the cube if I have a U-perm with the top layer correctly aligned in relation to the cube. Otherwise I never rotate it. I wonder if I should get rid of the U-perm cube rotations as well.


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## sqAree (Apr 2, 2017)

JanW said:


> Speaking of aligning the U layer, do people ever rotate the cube before performing PLL? If you see that the U layer is correctly aligned in relation to the rest of the cube, but not correctly aligned for you to solve the PLL, do you do AUF-PLL-AUF' or rotate cube then PLL? For some reason I tend to rotate the cube if I have a U-perm with the top layer correctly aligned in relation to the cube. Otherwise I never rotate it. I wonder if I should get rid of the U-perm cube rotations as well.


AUF-PLL-AUF is what we should do for every PLL case.
I tend to rotate for A perms. That is, because I have problems with post-AUFs after x rotations. I think it's the only PLL though. For U perms I can't understand, even with the AUFs RU-2gen is so fast and easy to execute.

EDIT: Same goes for the MU ones in case you use these..


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## JanW (Apr 2, 2017)

sqAree said:


> For U perms I can't understand, even with the AUFs RU-2gen is so fast and easy to execute.


I think the U-perm rotations might be a remain from my early cubing career when most solves ended in a U-perm and I probably had many bad habits involving unnecessary cube rotations. I shall try to stop doing those.


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## mark49152 (Apr 2, 2017)

JanW said:


> In general I think the goal should be to always be able to tell how the top layer will end up aligned before or while performing PLL. Then you can automatically apply the correct amount of U/U' moves at the end, without another look.


Exactly. Two sided recognition is easy for R perms so I can AUF quickly to align for execution. Then I know that for the inverse of that RUD alg, the FU edge sticker doesn't move, and I'm already prepared to AUF accordingly at the end with no pause or regrip. For most of my PLLs, the trailing U, U' or U2 is already in muscle memory, as if I'd learned four variants of each alg.


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## Fyzzna (Apr 2, 2017)

New PBs : single: 23.01, ao5: 30.44, ao12: 31.51, ao50: 33.55


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## mafergut (Apr 2, 2017)

For PLLs where you can cancel the final AUF, like my J-perms and R-perms I do AUF-PLL-AUF. For others that do not I prefer to rotate if it's just a y/y' and it will save me a final AUF, like with G-perms or T-perm. For algs that have x rotations the more so (like A-perms) to avoid a new rotation or an AUF on F/B. In some cases I have an alternative PLL to avoid y2, like lefty A-perms, alternative U-perms for bar in the front / back, or the T-perm + U2 variation. I also learned U-perm + U2 but never got proficient at them so I don't use them.


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## pipkiksass (Apr 2, 2017)

I'm not so fussed about AUF for PLLs, but @mafergut's comment about x rotations reminds me that PLLs with x rotations probably cost me about 1/2 second. I just find the regrips really clunky. If I time them without the rotation and regrip, they're probably fast, but WITH rotation and regrip, they're awful. 

May look for alternatives...


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## pglewis (Apr 2, 2017)

I generally AUF-PLL-AUF unless I _quickly_ see that it's already aligned and only a y or y' off. There's something very satisfying knowing I can just drop the cube after PLL.



Fyzzna said:


> New PBs : single: 23.01, ao5: 30.44, ao12: 31.51, ao50: 33.55



I _thought_ I was mostly kidding about you overtaking me by this weekend  

Great progress, I assume it's mostly from F2L lookahead?


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## pipkiksass (Apr 2, 2017)

pglewis said:


> There's something very satisfying knowing I can just drop the cube after PLL.


For about 1/2 of my PLLs, I know what the AUF will be while executing, and build it into the alg. So for those, it's almost like the alg is 1 turn longer, so I'm just dropping the cube after PLL. Some of these I can predict AUF, based on relative sticker positions during PLL recognition; some I recognise mid-execution. I'm pretty sure I could apply this to all PLLs, if I could be bothered to spot patterns, and make PLL really fast. 

I watched a video a couple of years ago, maybe a walkthrough of Feliks's, which talked about finger tricking PLLs differently depending on the AUF required after. Talk about getting advanced! But I can see that this would be really useful - if you know that a PLL ends with a U2, having your finger there ready to double-flick, then immediately drop the cube must be a good second faster than PLL - check AUF - regrip - U2.

One day...


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## pglewis (Apr 2, 2017)

pipkiksass said:


> Some of these I can predict AUF, based on relative sticker positions during PLL recognition; some I recognise mid-execution. I'm pretty sure I could apply this to all PLLs, if I could be bothered to spot patterns, and make PLL really fast.



And then I guess the next step: recognize the PLL/AUF situation when you recognize OLL... and alternate OLL algs to influence the PLL case. More often than not I'm frantically trying to recognize PLL and fail to note the AUF situation; if I'm lucky I can catch it by the end of execution. I'm just now trying to work CP recog into the routine as a step towards 2 sided recog and I think that has helped me spot the AUF situation earlier and more often. 

The rabbit hole runs deep.


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## newtonbase (Apr 3, 2017)

The new A-perms I'm trialling leave the cube off by an x rotation so I'm usually left with a ABF. I'll need to remember to fix that before execution.


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## JanW (Apr 3, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> Then I know that for the inverse of that RUD alg, the FU edge sticker doesn't move, and I'm already prepared to AUF accordingly at the end with no pause or regrip.


Some very good disguised advise here! Look for the sticker that doesn't move. Previously, in the case of R perms, I've been looking at the headlights thinking they will move to the left or the right, which makes it more complicated to predict while executing. I now looked at all R and G perms for stickers that return to the same place after execution and by focusing on those it becomes a lot easier to predict the AUF case.


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## pglewis (Apr 3, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> The new A-perms I'm trialling leave the cube off by an x rotation so I'm usually left with a ABF. I'll need to remember to fix that before execution.



One of mine_ would_ leave me with an AFF. But it ends in an R2 which I perform with left thumb on the bottom L and right thumb on top R. It restores the rotation and does the R2 at the same time, leaving me with AUF.


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## Jason Green (Apr 3, 2017)

JanW said:


> I think the U-perm rotations might be a remain from my early cubing career when most solves ended in a U-perm and I probably had many bad habits involving unnecessary cube rotations. I shall try to stop doing those.


Caleb Miller recently had a video taking about rotations before PLL being a beginner mistake. I know some people shared his videos a while back. The only time I tend to still rotate (on purpose, if I know what's going on) is if it's a y or y' and my hands are in bad position anyway and I basically have to regrip to AUF anyway, then I just rotate and grip.


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## Fyzzna (Apr 3, 2017)

pglewis said:


> I _thought_ I was mostly kidding about you overtaking me by this weekend
> 
> Great progress, I assume it's mostly from F2L lookahead?



Thank you, although I haven't actually overtaken you yet 

I would actually say most of the progress comes from improved lookahead, yeah (not F2L since I'm using Roux but you get the idea).


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## mark49152 (Apr 3, 2017)

JanW said:


> Some very good disguised advise here! Look for the sticker that doesn't move. Previously, in the case of R perms, I've been looking at the headlights thinking they will move to the left or the right, which makes it more complicated to predict while executing. I now looked at all R and G perms for stickers that return to the same place after execution and by focusing on those it becomes a lot easier to predict the AUF case.


All my PLL algs give me a non-moving sticker. It's not necessarily one the of the stickers that appears not to move in a diagram of what the PLL swaps or cycles, because an alg might include an inherent AUF, as discussed before. I also find that thinking about the AUF during alg execution reduces the incidence of screwing up algs by thinking about the alg rather than relying on muscle memory. I used to do that quite a lot


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## JohnnyReggae (Apr 3, 2017)

pglewis said:


> I continue to wrestle with the sluggish Valk syndrome. I did a full break-down and full cleaning of my stickerless last week, complete with q-tips, to get the gunk out. Reassembled and only put 2 drops of Silk in and worked it in. It was incredible. About six hours of solving later and it had slowed again. I think it's just the nature of the cube that it slows up with any gunking at all. My Thunderclaps are probably a wreck with gunk but they don't seem to care, with months between cleanings. A couple drops of Maru in the Valk helps; it might be a smidge too fast for me on the first solve or three then it's right where I want it for a session.


I found the same with my Valk. I left it unlubed for a while just because it seemed to perform better without anything in it. I've recently got hold of some DNM37 from TheCubicle and I must say that the Valk seems to love it. It is now buttery smooth and fast yet nicely controllable due to the magnets I put in, which I didn't like at first as they are quite weak but now after a few thousand solves I really like the fact that the magnets are there .. but not  They provide some nice stability without having a magnetic force to push through when turning.

On the talk of the R perms ... for Ra I use the lefty version of the the Rb perm. I started doing it as it was on Badmephisto's list and I've stuck with it. I can do Ra lefty as fast as Rb righty.

I use a few lefty perms even though some suggest not doing it because of the regrips, which I can understand. But for now I'll stick with them.


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## pglewis (Apr 3, 2017)

pglewis said:


> One of mine_ would_ leave me with an AFF. But it ends in an R2 which I perform with left thumb on the bottom L and right thumb on top R. It restores the rotation and does the R2 at the same time, leaving me with AUF.



I explained this very poorly but the left does the equivalent of an Lw' while the right does the R2 simultaneously. Not sure I actually get the left thumb fully on the bottom but that's the concept. Might be something similar you can do with an x rotated one (my current one starts x').



Fyzzna said:


> Thank you, although I haven't actually overtaken you yet
> 
> I would actually say most of the progress comes from improved lookahead, yeah (not F2L since I'm using Roux but you get the idea).



Me and my assumptions... I'm a CFOP guy but glad to see another Roux-er in here.

I'm tinkering with a few aspects of my solves again so I'm on the regression side of the see-saw, seeing a lot more high 30s and even sup 40s the past week and a half. There's still the chance of a lucky sub 20 single for me right now so I'm timing often just in case, but I refuse to let the timer pressure me into old habits for the sake of averages right now. If my past cycles are any indication I should see pay off in a couple more weeks.



JohnnyReggae said:


> I found the same with my Valk. I left it unlubed for a while just because it seemed to perform better without anything in it. I've recently got hold of some DNM37 from TheCubicle and I must say that the Valk seems to love it.



How much more life do you get out of DNM37 vs. Maru? I probably get an hour or a little more out of Maru, enough for a solid session and not much more. Not like the answer matters much, I know I'm going to pick some up to try regardless lol.


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## JohnnyReggae (Apr 4, 2017)

pglewis said:


> How much more life do you get out of DNM37 vs. Maru? I probably get an hour or a little more out of Maru, enough for a solid session and not much more. Not like the answer matters much, I know I'm going to pick some up to try regardless lol.


Can't compare as I have never used Maru. Locally it's quite pricey and having a lube that wears out after an hour or so is not good value IMO.

DNM37 seems to last quite a while, perhaps not the lube itself but the feeling it gives the cube seems to last quite a while. For me I can easily go a week with a couple of drops, and with the Valk I average around 60 to 120 solves a day.

I've just put some in my new GAN Air that I put some magnets in last night, and it certainly seems to smooth the plastic out in that the feel is a lot softer without slowing it down like Traxxis for eg.


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## pglewis (Apr 4, 2017)

I may have started an avalanche last night. It began by looking farther down the road to "what comes after full OLL for me", now that I'm about half way through, and the obvious answer seems to be COLL. Then I started thinking about edge control in order to land COLL cases consistently which lead me to thinking "or you could just use ZZ". 

So I figured out how solving EO works just to get my feet wet, solving EO+CFOP just for the sake of demonstration. It turned into a giggle-fest for me with rotationless, super-easy F2Ls and OCLL every time, of course. EOLine + blockbuilding wouldn't be a difficult adaptation with a little practice to learn the ropes. I would already be able to 2-look the last layer worst case every time with OCLL + PLL and could start picking up COLL immediately. Honestly, if I felt I could work out EOLine or even EO+Line fairly quickly I'd switch this second.


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## newtonbase (Apr 4, 2017)

pglewis said:


> I may have started an avalanche last night. It began by looking farther down the road to "what comes after full OLL for me", now that I'm about half way through, and the obvious answer seems to be COLL. Then I started thinking about edge control in order to land COLL cases consistently which lead me to thinking "or you could just use ZZ".
> 
> So I figured out how solving EO works just to get my feet wet, solving EO+CFOP just for the sake of demonstration. It turned into a giggle-fest for me with rotationless, super-easy F2Ls and OCLL every time, of course. EOLine + blockbuilding wouldn't be a difficult adaptation with a little practice to learn the ropes. I would already be able to 2-look the last layer worst case every time with OCLL + PLL and could start picking up COLL immediately. Honestly, if I felt I could work out EOLine or even EO+Line fairly quickly I'd switch this second.


So you've learned all those OLL algs and you want to switch to a method that only uses 7 of them? 
I've been looking at it myself and EOLine is really difficult to plan in full never mind in just 15s. I like the F2L but I end up making a full cross first so really need to work on proper block building. It's a fun challenge overall.


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## One Wheel (Apr 4, 2017)

pglewis said:


> I may have started an avalanche last night. It began by looking farther down the road to "what comes after full OLL for me", now that I'm about half way through, and the obvious answer seems to be COLL. Then I started thinking about edge control in order to land COLL cases consistently which lead me to thinking "or you could just use ZZ".
> 
> So I figured out how solving EO works just to get my feet wet, solving EO+CFOP just for the sake of demonstration. It turned into a giggle-fest for me with rotationless, super-easy F2Ls and OCLL every time, of course. EOLine + blockbuilding wouldn't be a difficult adaptation with a little practice to learn the ropes. I would already be able to 2-look the last layer worst case every time with PLL + OCLL and could start picking up COLL immediately. Honestly, if I felt I could work out EOLine or even EO+Line fairly quickly I'd switch this second.



ZZ has a lot of potential. I've mostly played around with untimed solves, just doing ZZf2l, OCLL, PLL, and it seems that I often end up with ridiculously inefficient last slot cases. I should probably look up some algs for them. When I've timed myself on ZZ I run roughly 1:00, versus 30-35 CFOP. I'm reasonably certain that if I figured out those LS cases and could actually plan EOLine in inspection I could average low 30s easily, and with a little practice break the 30 second barrier.


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## newtonbase (Apr 4, 2017)

One Wheel said:


> ZZ has a lot of potential. I've mostly played around with untimed solves, just doing ZZf2l, OCLL, PLL, and it seems that I often end up with ridiculously inefficient last slot cases. I should probably look up some algs for them. When I've timed myself on ZZ I run roughly 1:00, versus 30-35 CFOP. I'm reasonably certain that if I figured out those LS cases and could actually plan EOLine in inspection I could average low 30s easily, and with a little practice break the 30 second barrier.


Yes. I had to learn a new alg for when the corner is already placed which is a bit crazy but some are really fast and pretty easy despite the fixed orientation. I'm not expecting to do 3x3 in comp for at least 4 months so I have plenty of time to practice. 

My latest batch of Thunderclaps hadn't turned up from Champion's Cube Store. It's been 4 weeks and it's rarely over 2 so I popped down to the post office on the off chance. They were in a sack about to be returned to China. If I'd been an hour later...


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## pglewis (Apr 4, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> So you've learned all those OLL algs and you want to switch to a method that only uses 7 of them?



IKR? _And_ I'd have to give up my beloved hedge/sledge tricks I've worked into my F2L . 



newtonbase said:


> I've been looking at it myself and EOLine is really difficult to plan in full never mind in just 15s.



Yeah, I would have had a tough time working out EO from the outset. Even 8 months into CFOP I still had difficultly planning all 4 cross edges and it's only recently that I've developed a grasp of general EO and its implications. I think it's a foregone conclusion that I'm going to give it a go, though. I was literally giggling on every solve for over an hour. You know what has to happen when it's that much fun.


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## One Wheel (Apr 4, 2017)

pglewis said:


> I think it's a foregone conclusion that I'm going to give it a go, though. I was literally giggling on every solve for over an hour. You know what has to happen when it's that much fun.



The ultimate goal of cubing is to have fun. Speed is just one way of doing it. Incidentally ZZ has to potential to be pretty fast, too.


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## newtonbase (Apr 4, 2017)

pglewis said:


> Yeah, I would have had a tough time working out EO from the outset. Even 8 months into CFOP I still had difficultly planning all 4 cross edges and it's only recently that I've developed a grasp of general EO and its implications. I think it's a foregone conclusion that I'm going to give it a go, though. I was literally giggling on every solve for over an hour. You know what has to happen when it's that much fun.


Working out the EO is a fun little puzzle that I can sort of do. Adding in the line is extra tricky. I've never learned full OLL (but can do most of the corners only ones from 2 angles) and the thought of not having to is appealing. Might be worth joining the race to sub 40s thread for it soonish.


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## pglewis (Apr 4, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> Yes. I had to learn a new alg for when the corner is already placed which is a bit crazy but some are really fast and pretty easy despite the fixed orientation.



Yeah, like you and @One Wheel I already discovered I have to work out a few new ways of dealing with cases given the move restrictions. Even if I end up doing an about-face and return to CFOP I'll have some new rotationless RUL solutions in the tool-belt. 



newtonbase said:


> Might be worth joining the race to sub 40s thread for it soonish.



I've avoided the "race to" threads thus far because I'm easily distracted by... wait, what were we talking about? Oh, right, switching methods in the midst of racing to a sub-20 single. I can just picture me getting .1 away from my goal and discovering Megaminx.


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## phreaker (Apr 4, 2017)

Cool to see so many people discussing ZZ. . I've been a long time ZZ solver... I really enjoy it, as an OH solver.

EO isnt THAT bad... It is learning EOLine that's hard... I'd encourage people learning ZZ to start with just EO + Line, then move to EOLine, the jump is mainly in tracking where edges land and altering your planning. So until you are comfortable planning base EO, it is hard to understand how it works.

I've got to work on my EOLine -> ZZF2L transition, and learn some of the cases better, in ZZF2L. Some of them I sense I've figured it out.. some I need more work.

Ironically, I've practiced OH so much... I have issues with 2H now.. Once and a while I have to finish off a solve OH... :/


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## newtonbase (Apr 4, 2017)

phreaker said:


> EO isnt THAT bad... It is learning EOLine that's hard... I'd encourage people learning ZZ to start with just EO + Line, then move to EOLine, the jump is mainly in tracking where edges land and altering your planning. So until you are comfortable planning base EO, it is hard to understand how it works.


Thanks for the tip. I didn't know if I should force myself to do EOLine. Glad to hear that I don't need to. 


phreaker said:


> Ironically, I've practiced OH so much... I have issues with 2H now.. Once and a while I have to finish off a solve OH... :/


I think @SenorJuan has had the same issue.


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## phreaker (Apr 4, 2017)

Cube update: Got in a pair of stickerless Weilong GTS2.

Overall, I like the GTS2... Though it can be a bit locky, it is nothing near as bad as a Gan AIR.

It looks a bit like a valk... feels nothing like a valk. Very slick, and fast, and a bit wobbly, unlike a Valk.

Magnets really change the cube, fixing the wobbly nature, and making the cube much better behaved. If the cube wasn't designed with magnets in mind, I'd be surprised... It really responds well to them.

I really like the feel of the cube with magnets... for some reason, it just feels like it might be a good cube for BLD, with magnets. I can't really explain why... but the way it turns, with the internal ridges and tracks.. and the magnets, really gives a ton of confidence in what the cube is doing.

I may setup two of them... one for 2H, with stronger magnets, and one for OH with weaker ones.. (already done.) we'll see... I've got a second in house already... just a matter of what will happen to it... may be contingent on what I think of this one as I get it fully setup and going.


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## phreaker (Apr 4, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> Thanks for the tip. I didn't know if I should force myself to do EOLine. Glad to hear that I don't need to.



it should be your long term goal... but if you read the page at http://cube.crider.co.uk/zz.php?p=eoline and your eyes gloss, at understanding where the edges land, and in which groups... then you probably aren't ready. I know it took me a while. I mastered cross pretty quick... EOLine took me a while.


> I think @SenorJuan has had the same issue.


I've heard many OH cubers end up with that issue. It is just part of the whole thing. But I enjoy OH. Always have.

It's probably slowed my overall progress.. but... Cubing is about fun... not progress.


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## mafergut (Apr 4, 2017)

I hate that there are no mass produced magnetic 3x3s yet. If the GTS2 has been designed with magnets in mind... why not make a magnetic version already? It would be so easy to include receptacles in the molds to contain the magnets and then just assemble some of them with / some without the magnets inside.

Yeah, now I'm planning on making my own "Yan3 M" but it would be so nice to have some choices off-the-shelf already. What are Moyu, Qiyi and Yuxin waiting for?


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## phreaker (Apr 4, 2017)

mafergut said:


> I hate that there are no mass produced magnetic 3x3s yet. If the GTS2 has been designed with magnets in mind... why not make a magnetic version already? It would be so easy to include receptacles in the molds to contain the magnets and then just assemble some of them with / some without the magnets inside.



I'd like just a notch for the magnet to go in, and be aligned properly. like single little plastic line to make sure alignment is right. The magnets should always be against the edge of the cube... so it shouldn't take much to make a cube easier to magnetize. 



> Yeah, now I'm planning on making my own "Yan3 M" but it would be so nice to have some choices off-the-shelf already. What are Moyu, Qiyi and Yuxin waiting for?



Agreed... though stocking magnets may be hard? Especially in the bulk that those companies might need... Though they do Pyraminxes and Skewbs already... But those are smaller production run puzzles if I had to guess.


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## newtonbase (Apr 4, 2017)

I wonder if there is any commercial advantage to making cubes that are easier to magnetise. Someone should try it maybe with a mid range cube. 

Personally I enjoy doing them myself so they would have to have a very small markup for to consider buying them ready made. 

I'm looking forward to doing my 6 Thunderclaps once the correct magnets arrive. I reckon I could do them all in maybe 2 and a half hours if I could get that much time free.


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## phreaker (Apr 4, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> I wonder if there is any commercial advantage to making cubes that are easier to magnetise. Someone should try it maybe with a mid range cube.
> 
> Personally I enjoy doing them myself so they would have to have a very small markup for to consider buying them ready made.
> 
> I'm looking forward to doing my 6 Thunderclaps once the correct magnets arrive. I reckon I could do them all in maybe 2 and a half hours if I could get that much time free.



It took me about 1 to 1.5hrs to get my GTS2 done, all said and done. I'm not that fast at it.. or I'm picky... one of the two .

I suspect that the issue is the labor + the cost of the magnets. Cubes are price sensitive items... $3 for magnets would be quite reasonable, but can they make those economics work? Who knows.


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## Jason Green (Apr 5, 2017)

mafergut said:


> I hate that there are no mass produced magnetic 3x3s yet. If the GTS2 has been designed with magnets in mind... why not make a magnetic version already? It would be so easy to include receptacles in the molds to contain the magnets and then just assemble some of them with / some without the magnets inside.


The GAN 356 AUM is mass produced.  Still pricey though.

This is a pretty cool video comparing DNM 37 with Maru. Mari does not last long for sure, I have not tried DNM 37. I've pretty much quit using Maru because I'm too lazy.


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## One Wheel (Apr 5, 2017)

mafergut said:


> I hate that there are no mass produced magnetic 3x3s yet. If the GTS2 has been designed with magnets in mind... why not make a magnetic version already? It would be so easy to include receptacles in the molds to contain the magnets and then just assemble some of them with / some without the magnets inside.
> 
> Yeah, now I'm planning on making my own "Yan3 M" but it would be so nice to have some choices off-the-shelf already. What are Moyu, Qiyi and Yuxin waiting for?



I'm sure the development cycle for cubes is a lot faster than for, say, a car, but magnets in cubes is really a pretty new thing. I posted in the thread about the Qiyi clock that I was interested in a magnetic alignment mechanism for cubes on July 22nd, 2016. It was a new enough idea at that time that people responded with magnetic pyraminx and magnetic dice cubes to show it had already been tried.


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## JohnnyReggae (Apr 5, 2017)

pglewis said:


> I may have started an avalanche last night. It began by looking farther down the road to "what comes after full OLL for me", now that I'm about half way through, and the obvious answer seems to be COLL. Then I started thinking about edge control in order to land COLL cases consistently which lead me to thinking "or you could just use ZZ".
> 
> So I figured out how solving EO works just to get my feet wet, solving EO+CFOP just for the sake of demonstration. It turned into a giggle-fest for me with rotationless, super-easy F2Ls and OCLL every time, of course. EOLine + blockbuilding wouldn't be a difficult adaptation with a little practice to learn the ropes. I would already be able to 2-look the last layer worst case every time with OCLL + PLL and could start picking up COLL immediately. Honestly, if I felt I could work out EOLine or even EO+Line fairly quickly I'd switch this second.


I looked into ZZ a little while back. I really like it as a method and is a fairly easy transition for a CFOP solver. At the moment I still only do EO and then the line, I can't do both at the same time. I've also found that you need to think about the ZZF2L as you do have more freedom to build the blocks so you can do some different pairing methods. I'd suggest having a look at a bunch of ZZ walkthrough solves.

I've managed a 30 second solve with ZZ when I was averaging around 20/21 seconds with CFOP, but an easy EO had a lot to do with that. For now I'm sticking with CFOP, but I still do a few ZZ solves now and again. I want to spend more time with ZZ ...



mafergut said:


> I hate that there are no mass produced magnetic 3x3s yet. If the GTS2 has been designed with magnets in mind... why not make a magnetic version already? It would be so easy to include receptacles in the molds to contain the magnets and then just assemble some of them with / some without the magnets inside.
> 
> Yeah, now I'm planning on making my own "Yan3 M" but it would be so nice to have some choices off-the-shelf already. What are Moyu, Qiyi and Yuxin waiting for?


The thing I've found with magnets, like with all cubes, is that there is a lot of personal preference. I've used magnets in my AIR that most people seem to like a lot and I found them too strong and destroyed the feeling of the cube for me. In order to make a viable product they would need to have some choice to cater for peoples needs/wants. Perhaps they would need to settle for a middle-of-the-road magnetic strength, and if you require something else you could make it yourself ? As long as the price of the magnetic cube is not as it currently is, which IMO is just way too much for what you get. I do understand labour costs etc and that it does actually cost that much to produce, however from a factory point of view that portion of the cost should be drastically reduced.


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## muchacho (Apr 5, 2017)

Not sure but I would say I'm sub-20 now, so I've made another video for my playlist (last was a 19.868 Ao5 from October).






1. 16.807 F2 R2 D' F2 D F2 D' B2 U F2 D' F' D' F2 R2 B2 L F U' R' D U'
2. 20.094 L2 F2 D' L2 D2 U B2 F2 U' R2 D2 L' D2 L' B2 D' F' D' R2 F' L2
3. 20.966 D' F2 U' R2 L2 D2 B2 L2 D' F2 D' B L' F2 R' B' L2 D F' L2 F2 L'
4. 19.167 U' F2 U' L2 U' L2 B2 U R2 L2 B2 R' D2 B2 D' R2 L2 B R2 L' D2
5. 15.679 B2 L2 B2 F2 U B2 U' L2 D R2 L2 F' R' U' R B L' U' B' D R'

Ao5: 18.689


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## Lid (Apr 5, 2017)

Got the Valk3 2 days ago now, yesterday I almost got a a12 2H PB, *15.524*
And just today a new OH a12 PB, *23.488* (old was 23.78), so I think I have finally found a replacement for my old OH cube.

Times: 20.655, 21.372, 25.839, (26.918), 23.614, 24.524, 23.467, 21.643, (20.615), 24.110, 26.579, 23.076



Spoiler: Scambles



Average of 12: 23.488
1. 20.655 F2 D' R2 B D R2 F2 D' F' L2 U2 F2 L D2 B2 L D2 B2 R' F2 
2. 21.372 R F' R L U L U2 L' F L F2 D2 F2 L' B2 L D2 R B2 L 
3. 25.839 L2 D' B L2 U B R U L B D' R2 B2 U' L2 D' L2 B2 D2 L2 D' 
4. (26.918) U' F2 U2 D R2 L D F U2 R2 D R2 B2 D' L2 B2 R2 B2 U 
5. 23.614 B2 U B2 D2 L2 B2 U' B2 D2 F2 D' F' D' B' U' L D F R' F' L 
6. 24.524 F2 R2 D B2 D R2 B2 D F2 D2 U L' U' F' D U' B' D2 F2 L 
7. 23.467 B F2 R2 D2 U2 B' F2 L2 U2 F L2 R D2 B R B' U2 B' L' U' R2 
8. 21.643 R' D B D' R L D2 B' R' F2 L2 F2 D B2 L2 B2 R2 U B2 U2 
9. (20.615) R2 F2 L2 D B2 U' B2 D B2 D2 F2 L' B2 L' D L R2 F2 D' F' L 
10. 24.110 D2 L2 F2 U2 R2 B2 D' L2 F2 D' L2 B' U2 L R F2 D B' F2 U' F 
11. 26.579 U2 B' L2 B' D2 B2 U2 F' U2 L2 F' L F' L R' B' D' F' D' R' 
12. 23.076 U2 R2 F2 R2 U' F2 U L2 U' L2 F2 L R' D' B' D' B U' F U



Got 2 comps comming up, this weekend and the last weekend of May.


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## muchacho (Apr 5, 2017)

Congrats!

Which was your old OH cube? My Valk should arrive in less than 2 weeks, I hope.


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## Lid (Apr 5, 2017)

muchacho said:


> Congrats!
> 
> Which was your old OH cube? My Valk should arrive in less than 2 weeks, I hope.



I've been using LingYun since it came in like 2008/9... going to get another Valk3 with my next cube buy.

(Also got a WuQue & a magnetic MoYu pyraminx this time.)


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## phreaker (Apr 5, 2017)

Lid said:


> I've been using LingYun since it came in like 2008/9... going to get another Valk3 with my next cube buy.
> 
> (Also got a WuQue & a magnetic MoYu pyraminx this time.)


For OH... If you like loose cubes.. the GTS2 is a nice cube. I like mine, magnetized .

Same size.. very different feel.


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## Logiqx (Apr 5, 2017)

I finally got around to writing up my understanding of OLL parity + PLL parity + L2E.

https://www.speedsolving.com/forum/threads/relationship-of-oll-parity-pll-parity-l2e.64448/

This links to a new L2E page on my website.


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## Fyzzna (Apr 5, 2017)

Got some new PBs 

single: 20.81, ao5: 27.13, ao12: 29.58, ao50: 33.20

Also currently trying to learn two more first blocks (so that I can finally do my first block on every side with white on bottom), which made my times suck today but I have the feeling that it'll be worth it in the long run.


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## muchacho (Apr 5, 2017)

Sure, it will help, 4 blocks is good, also yellow on bottom is not much difficult... although sometimes I see too many bars done and spend too much of the inspection time deciding which one to use.

Anyway, I'm the worst at first two blocks, they should take like half of the solve, in my case that should be 10 seconds, but it's almost 13.


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## pglewis (Apr 6, 2017)

I have to wonder what the increased odds of OLL skip and LL skip are with pre-oriented edges. I actually got a LL skip and back to back OLL skips shortly after last night. I'm sure that was on the extra-lucky side, but still.


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## One Wheel (Apr 6, 2017)

pglewis said:


> I have to wonder what the increased odds of OLL skip and LL skip are with pre-oriented edges. I actually got a LL skip and back to back OLL skips shortly after last night. I'm sure that was on the extra-lucky side, but still.



This is discussed at length in the probabilities thread. The shortest answer I saw was 1/27 for OLL skip, 1/1944 for LL skip, but I'm not sure if that's correct.


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## AlphaSheep (Apr 6, 2017)

One Wheel said:


> This is discussed at length in the probabilities thread. The shortest answer I saw was 1/27 for OLL skip, 1/1944 for LL skip, but I'm not sure if that's correct.


Yes, that's correct. The chances of an OLL skip when edges are pre-oriented is 8 times more likely than a normal OLL skip (same ratio for a LL skip).


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## phreaker (Apr 6, 2017)

Starting to practice for my 1st comp. Signed up in 3x3, OH, and BLD. BLD may be aggressive, in that I may not be able to hit the times, but I threw it in. OH may be also.. but I see making a run at that one. I'm pretty close to the cuts. With work, I may be able to get a few solves in .

I've been practicing with my timer set to time inspection a bit just to get used to how long 15s feels.

In the end... It is better to try and fail, than never try.


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## Logiqx (Apr 6, 2017)

A couple of quick notes:

I've made some small changes to my alg pages...
Changes to layout; case names always shown and a more consistent view across mobile / tablet / desktop
Re-ordered algs for each case to ensure that my first choices are shown on the reduced views (e.g. mobile)
Added Oriented + Sune + Anti-Sune to the COLL page, just for the sake of completeness. I don't actually use them!
Changed the COLL page to use CMLL naming convention - i.e. [A-H][1-6]
Added L2E for 5x5x5

I've updated the oldies rankings on GitHub
Links in my signature.


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## newtonbase (Apr 7, 2017)

phreaker said:


> In the end... It is better to try and fail, than never try.


Absolutely. You should enter everything you can do. It's all good experience and you may get lucky.


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## DTCuber (Apr 7, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> Absolutely. You should enter everything you can do. It's all good experience and you may get lucky.



fo sho

I'm just a student, but I recently got involved with my school's makerspace. one of the best choices i have ever made


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## Jason Green (Apr 7, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> Absolutely. You should enter everything you can do. It's all good experience and you may get lucky.


I've always done that just for fun. However at the next comp I am not going to do 5x5. I'm nowhere near the cut and if I entered I would want to practice a little more, and I want to focus on 4x4 to qualify for Nationals. 

Speaking of which I'm pretty consistently under 1:30 now which is what I need. Tonight I averaged about 1:25. It's funny I was not getting hardly any double parity and I wanted to for practice recognizing it and executing. So I had an idea at the end of my session... I'm going to start executing whatever parities I did not have at the end of each solve before stopping the timer. I know I could just practice timing the parity algs and do the math, but I feel like this is better practice for getting used to doing them in a solve. Anyone ever try that? I will probably only do it right now since my double parity time is questionable to make the cut.


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## newtonbase (Apr 7, 2017)

Jason Green said:


> I've always done that just for fun. However at the next comp I am not going to do 5x5. I'm nowhere near the cut and if I entered I would want to practice a little more, and I want to focus on 4x4 to qualify for Nationals.
> 
> Speaking of which I'm pretty consistently under 1:30 now which is what I need. Tonight I averaged about 1:25. It's funny I was not getting hardly any double parity and I wanted to for practice recognizing it and executing. So I had an idea at the end of my session... I'm going to start executing whatever parities I did not have at the end of each solve before stopping the timer. I know I could just practice timing the parity algs and do the math, but I feel like this is better practice for getting used to doing them in a solve. Anyone ever try that? I will probably only do it right now since my double parity time is questionable to make the cut.


Sounds like a good plan.


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## mafergut (Apr 7, 2017)

I'm right now at around sub 1:10 average without parity or maybe a bit below. Counting all solves I'm at sub 1:15. When I have double parity, unless the solve is nice-to-good I can easily go over 1:20. If the solve is bad I still can get over 1:25 or even in disaster cases over 1:30 but that's very rare.

What I mean is... I hate even layered cubes  No, just kidding, but I hate the difference it can make between a lucky no parity solve and a double parity one.

NOTE: I have timed myself just for the execution of OLL parity followed by PLL parity and I think it's around 8-9 seconds. Maybe I should practice more, in particular OLL parity with U2 flicks alternating between both hands (I do them all with my right).


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## mark49152 (Apr 7, 2017)

@mafergut, the way I look at it is this. Over long averages my 4x4 times have proportionally greater StDev than some other puzzles. While double parities can be frustrating, on the other hand 4x4 gives nice singles! 

In comp it amplifies the feelings. Five solves with double parities is frustrating, but it feels great to get those fast singles, especially when they count.


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## newtonbase (Apr 7, 2017)

1:26.40 3BLD PB. First in ages. Done on an EasyJet flight.


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## mark49152 (Apr 7, 2017)

Nice improvement Mark


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## newtonbase (Apr 7, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> Nice improvement Mark


Thanks. I just need a decent official time now. Sub 2 will do.


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## pglewis (Apr 8, 2017)

47.26 was my first sub 60 ZZ single (well, technically EO-CFOP). Either 6 or 8 edges to fix up, can't recall which but it wasn't a lol scramble I just managed to see what I needed in time, didn't mess it up, and got a reasonably smooth F2L. I also got a 2:33 single. Mean is ~1:23 on my first timed solves. I'm back to using csTimer's voice alert in inspection, I haven't done that in ages because I'm completely comfortable staying under inspection time for CFOP solves. I can usually evaluate and get a count of misoriented edges during inspection thus far, but only just. No real planning besides how to break them up based on the count.


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## CornerCutter (Apr 8, 2017)

I'm trying to find @*pipkiksass *post on making a magnetic valk. Which page is it on?


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## CornerCutter (Apr 8, 2017)

CornerCutter said:


> I'm trying to find @*pipkiksass *post on making a magnetic valk. Which page is it on?


Never mind I found it. Around 704-705.


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## newtonbase (Apr 8, 2017)

There's a mention on 724 https://www.speedsolving.com/forum/threads/older-cubers-discussions.37405/page-724#post-1223572


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## newtonbase (Apr 8, 2017)

CornerCutter said:


> Never mind I found it. Around 704-705.


I remember that now. Are you planning on doing one?


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## CornerCutter (Apr 8, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> I remember that now. Are you planning on doing one?


Yes I'm in the process right now. Do you have to worry about which way the magnets go in or can you just put them in?


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## mafergut (Apr 8, 2017)

CornerCutter said:


> Yes I'm in the process right now. Do you have to worry about which way the magnets go in or can you just put them in?


You better make sure that polarity is identical in all corners and also identical in all edges (and opposite to corners). But this is easier done than said, in this case  You just need to follow one of the tutorials by DMCubing.


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## newtonbase (Apr 8, 2017)

CornerCutter said:


> Yes I'm in the process right now. Do you have to worry about which way the magnets go in or can you just put them in?


I've answered in the magnets thread but what @mafergut says is correct.


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## Lid (Apr 8, 2017)

Just back from my first comp in 16 months, mixed results as usual ...

2x2: failed on last 2 solves, would have been PB otherwise, now it became my 2nd best avg
3x3: 2nd best comp avg in 1st round, half fail (tired) in the 2nd, but still 4th best comp avg
4x4: PB avg with 0.17, *1:08.10*, still no sub1 single
5x5: got to make my first avg since 2011, so huge improvment, *1:52.75* single (best result of the day for me) & *2:07.92* avg
OH: total fail, too tired
Skewb: no practice still "OK, PB single & 2nd best comp avg
Pyraminx: no practice, still PB avg with 1.41, sub10! *9.86*, must have been the new magnetic MoYu 
FMC: just a CFOP solve @50

Skipping 2nd day ...

Next comp for me is just in 7 weeks.


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## Logiqx (Apr 9, 2017)

Lid said:


> Just back from my first comp in 16 months, mixed results as usual ...



Congrats on the good results, commiserations on events affected by tiredness.

Are you going to worlds BTW?


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## pipkiksass (Apr 9, 2017)

CornerCutter said:


> I'm trying to find @*pipkiksass *post on making a magnetic valk. Which page is it on?


Yeah, sorry dude, you PMd me and I didn't get round to your follow up message. What @newtonbase doesn't know about magnetising cubes isn't worth knowing! There's little I can add to DMcubing's YT tutorials, but my posts in this thread do point out a few pitfalls to avoid.

I'd make a "making a Valk M for dummies" tutorial, but honestly I don't think I'd be adding enough to make it worthwhile, and also I don't have a spare cube!!

In other news, dismantled my DIY M last night, as I was getting spring noise on the yellow face only. Oh my, what a difference it makes being my LL face, the black metal dust type debris around the spring was causing the noise, and all the non-yellow faces were absolutely fine.

Reasons to be CN #2!?


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## SenorJuan (Apr 9, 2017)

Quote:".... I was getting spring noise on the yellow face only.... what a difference it makes being my LL face, the black metal dust type debris around the spring was causing the noise, and all the non-yellow faces were absolutely fine."
I noticed some uneven wear on my cube, with a first-face / last-face difference. So when I restickered it, I swapped over the first and last layer colours (and obviously another opposite pair too), I didn't notice any obvious difference, but I guess that's good, as it means I caught it in time.


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## pglewis (Apr 9, 2017)

The jury is still out on committing to a switch to ZZ, the usual suspects for the pros and cons. Still doing a lot of EO practice but splitting my time with CFOP solves. The really enticing side: 

I love, love, love pre-oriented rotationless F2L. I'm not really faster with it than normal right off the bat but I feel confident I could easily be. My poor innate lookahead skills are not aided by rotations; every one runs the risk of making me re-visualize the state, mentally. Pared down cases and much better lookahead for me makes it much more enjoyable. 
The last layer, quite simply, kicks a significant quantity of butt with no last slot twiddling needed for serious benefits. OLL skips galore and even more fun to be had with COLL. 
The major question marks:

EO+CFOP is not ZZ, I need to tackle block-building to get the full benefits. EO gives my poor lookahead a boost then it is immediately gut-punched by DR/DL. I don't know if I could ever embrace looking for pieces there and I still resort to solving a cross in my infancy. 
The fact that I could put the extra effort needed for EOLine into working on X-Cross, if I'm going to look deeper during inspection. All the other benefits are nice and all but X-Cross can get a heck of a head-start. 
At _some_ point in the future I'll be taking bigger cubes more seriously, so CFOP isn't going away for me. All this practice with oriented pairs and the R/U/L restriction-- read: denying me sledge based fix-ups-- has incidentally exposed several cases that often kill my CFOP solves. I still generalize too many cases and this has conveniently pinpointed some big ones and is forcing me to improve there. 

In the interim it has been a good balance: CFOP when i want to go "fast" (it's relative), ZZ when I wanna have fun. I sometimes find myself starting to plan a cross and immediately decide "to heck with this", and start looking at EO instead.


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## phreaker (Apr 10, 2017)

pglewis said:


> The jury is still out on committing to a switch to ZZ, the usual suspects for the pros and cons. Still doing a lot of EO practice but splitting my time with CFOP solves. The really enticing side:
> 
> I love, love, love pre-oriented rotationless F2L. I'm not really faster with it than normal right off the bat but I feel confident I could easily be. My poor innate lookahead skills are not aided by rotations; every one runs the risk of making me re-visualize the state, mentally. Pared down cases and much better lookahead for me makes it much more enjoyable.
> The last layer, quite simply, kicks a significant quantity of butt with no last slot twiddling needed for serious benefits. OLL skips galore and even more fun to be had with COLL.
> ...



My suggestion, if you want to learn block building... Don't EOCross, just make a "block" 2x1x1 of the D layer on the U face. Then put it into place, and do this repeatedly.

I know I have to do this every so often, when I get too attached to pairs instead of blocks. Just to remind my mind "Hey, blocks exist!" Ideally, you should be ~50/50 block vs. pair when making the 2x2x1.

Tracking DL/DR is something you should do. They are part of the 2x2x1 on each side, no matter what. At that point it is a matter of finding which edge + corner you want to make everything up, out of. But... tracking them is something I'm working on myself .


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## AlphaSheep (Apr 10, 2017)

pipkiksass said:


> In other news, dismantled my DIY M last night, as I was getting spring noise on the yellow face only. Oh my, what a difference it makes being my LL face, the black metal dust type debris around the spring was causing the noise, and all the non-yellow faces were absolutely fine.
> 
> Reasons to be CN #2!?


The easiest solution is to do M' E' M E and then swap the centre caps around every few weeks.


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## newtonbase (Apr 10, 2017)

AlphaSheep said:


> The easiest solution is to do M' E' M E and then swap the centre caps around every few weeks.


Genius.


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## mafergut (Apr 10, 2017)

AlphaSheep said:


> The easiest solution is to do M' E' M E and then swap the centre caps around every few weeks.


Nice! But it doesn't work with stickerless cubes, sadly.
By the way, I'm not sure I'm getting what the problem is that @pipkiksass was suffering. Increased wear on yellow center because of LL always on yellow? If that's the case I have another solution... to become full CN


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## JohnnyReggae (Apr 10, 2017)

With this talk of trying different methods and having tried ZZ already I thought I'd give Roux a go. I'm enjoying it more than I thought I would, mostly because I'm not a fan of M moves because I find them clumsy and slow and always require regrips. It is also fairly intuitive with L6E EO, LU and RU placement, and permuting the M layer. I've been using 2-look on the upper corners as I don't need to learn anything new there.

As a method it is a nice change from CFOP and the initial block building gives you even more freedom than ZZ, although I'm not taking full advantage of that as I usually place my left and right bottom edges first so that I don't need to think about them again.

I have had a few skips, if you can call them that, in that after finishing L6E EO I'm left with a CFOP PLL to finish off


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## pipkiksass (Apr 10, 2017)

mafergut said:


> Nice! But it doesn't work with stickerless cubes, sadly.
> By the way, I'm not sure I'm getting what the problem is that @pipkiksass was suffering. Increased wear on yellow center because of LL always on yellow? If that's the case I have another solution... to become full CN


Yeah I'm stickerless... sigh!

I said in my original post, reasons to become CN...!

Might give it a go, but TBH I think it'll take several thousand years for me to wear out the screws in my valk through pure solving alone, and I also have a white and another stickerless as backups, so could always just do a spring swap.

#toolazytobeCN

And I'm all honesty I very rarely find a cross I can't fully plan these days. Might put a little effort into white/yellow CN, just for those absolute bastard crosses that come up occasionally.

After I lubed and cleaned my Valk M I also had my first sub-11 lucky solve, and first sub-12 NL. Getting closer to that random fluked sub-10 single!!


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## h2f (Apr 10, 2017)

I did a try of 6bld (3rd time ever). Of course it was DNF. Memo was around 1 hour. I know now what type of comms should I practice: +/- obliques of course. I found it very hard for me to imagine how shall I do both types. Time was 1:24.


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## mark49152 (Apr 10, 2017)

@h2f: Obliques are easy but it's very difficult not to make mistakes I have still never successfully solved obliques, and never tried a full 6BLD.


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## mafergut (Apr 10, 2017)

I had to order a Weilong GTS2 because:
- They make them stickerless (the original GTS had caps)
- I was looking for a new 3x3 (Valk3 and Yan3 are nice but a bit catchy, so maybe a GTS2 is good? Less is more ).
- People are saying great things of it, mainly that it is what the original wasn't (I'm not particularly fond of the GTS).

I also had to order a Shengshoug Pearl Mega with it because:
- I love the Aurora and this looks like an improvement. Better grip and corner cutting... same stability? (I hope).

Ah, tomorrow I will show you a picture of a little birthday present my wife bought me (she doesn't know I know but I won't get it until tomorrow because... that's my birth day of course). A couple hints at what it is: it's green and if my wife's name was Eve it would make a lot more sense 

EDIT: And the N35 magnets did not arrive on time for my Easter project of magnetising the Yan3 and maybe another cube (Valk3? MF3RS? original GTS?).


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## h2f (Apr 10, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> @h2f: Obliques are easy but it's very difficult not to make mistakes I have still never successfully solved obliques, and never tried a full 6BLD.



Yeah. I have mixed between + and - obliques and failed. My memo was only 59 words and 4 letter pairs. I hope to make a next attempt for a week.


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## mark49152 (Apr 10, 2017)

h2f said:


> Yeah. I have mixed between + and - obliques and failed. My memo was only 59 words and 4 letter pairs. I hope to make a next attempt for a week.


I have a comp with 5BLD next weekend and am on a 14-long DNF streak. Not good when I only get time for 1-2 attempts per day.


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## newtonbase (Apr 10, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> I have a comp with 5BLD next weekend and am on a 14-long DNF streak. Not good when I only get time for 1-2 attempts per day.


The longer a streak goes on the closer it gets to ending!


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## mark49152 (Apr 10, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> The longer a streak goes on the closer it gets to ending!


And those DNFs keep getting faster


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## newtonbase (Apr 10, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> And those DNFs keep getting faster


Even better. Time for a first place.


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## h2f (Apr 10, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> I have a comp with 5BLD next weekend and am on a 14-long DNF streak. Not good when I only get time for 1-2 attempts per day.



 Gonna be fine. My 4bld dnfs occur more often than in 5bld.


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## pglewis (Apr 10, 2017)

mafergut said:


> I had to order a Weilong GTS2 because:
> - They make them stickerless (the original GTS had caps)
> - I was looking for a new 3x3 (Valk3 and Yan3 are nice but a bit catchy, so maybe a GTS2 is good? Less is more ).
> - People are saying great things of it, mainly that it is what the original wasn't (I'm not particularly fond of the GTS).



Same here, mine should arrive today. I didn't care for the GTS's I tried at comps but I'll give the stickerless GTS2 a try.


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## muchacho (Apr 10, 2017)

I made a stickerless GTS (when 4Chan showed his in a video), I didn't finished it, but it was close, I'll end that mod soon... but anyway, I didn't like the GTS, a bit unstable for me.


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## newtonbase (Apr 10, 2017)

muchacho said:


> I made a stickerless GTS (when 4Chan showed his in a video), I didn't finished it, but it was close, I'll end that mod soon... but anyway,* I didn't like the GTS, a bit unstable for me*.


That's what the magnets are for.


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## muchacho (Apr 10, 2017)

I wish I had added magnets, I can't now. My hopes are now in the Valk, hopefully it will be good enough without magnets... it only has to be better than a Weilong v2, that can't be too hard.


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## mark49152 (Apr 10, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> The longer a streak goes on the closer it gets to ending!


And............ the streak ends


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## newtonbase (Apr 10, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> And............ the streak ends


Yay. Don't start a new one!


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## Michael919 (Apr 10, 2017)

Hello fellow older cubers. New 49 yr old member here. Intro:

https://www.speedsolving.com/forum/threads/new-old-cuber.64495/

Does anyone else have the challenge of solving quietly to not irritate others? 

I do most of my cubing on the couch next to my wife, so quiet cubes are a must. I'm also a gear junky in whatever I do, and I love tinkering, trying to get things just right. With that, I've put together a little collection that I'm happy with, but I will soon want to add more. 

I have a Gans 356 v2, Air and a Valk 3. I really don't have a favorite amongst the three. I use them evenly. I like the speed and smoothness of the Air and Valk, but also the heavier, solid feeling of the 356 v2. I also have a Tang Long and a GTS2 on the way and look forward to them. 

What other quiet and smooth cubes should I consider in the future?


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## newtonbase (Apr 11, 2017)

Michael919 said:


> Hello fellow older cubers. New 49 yr old member here. Intro:
> 
> https://www.speedsolving.com/forum/threads/new-old-cuber.64495/
> 
> ...


Hi @Michael919 .Glad you made it over here. I can't help you any further with your quiet cube selection as my choice would be the Valk. I meant to take mine on a recent flight but forgot so had to use my very noisy magnetised Thunderclaps. Got a 3BLD PB so who cares. 
Most of us are based in Europe so the thread is a little quieter at this time. You aren't being ignored!


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## One Wheel (Apr 11, 2017)

Michael919 said:


> Hello fellow older cubers. New 49 yr old member here. Intro:
> 
> https://www.speedsolving.com/forum/threads/new-old-cuber.64495/
> 
> ...



Welcome! You'll fit right in here with a bunch of other gear junkies: cubing is a gear-heavy hobby, but for a gear-heavy hobby it is remarkably easy on the pocketbook, as I'm sure you've noticed. 

As to other quiet cubes, I'm not really up to date on the most modern cubes: I prefer to use old-but-good 3x3s and spend more money on bigger cubes if I'm going to. I'm also a batchelor dairy farmer, and the cows don't mind, so I don't pay a lot of attention to noise. That said, the thunderclap v1 is a classic and rightly so. It is a very good cube, and reasonably quiet when properly broken in. The cube I'm using the most these days is actually a YJ Yulong that I put magnets into. It's a heavy cube, both in terms of weight and turning, and prone to corner twists, but very fluid and quiet.


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## newtonbase (Apr 11, 2017)

One Wheel said:


> Welcome! You'll fit right in here with a bunch of other gear junkies: cubing is a gear-heavy hobby, but for a gear-heavy hobby it is remarkably easy on the pocketbook, as I'm sure you've noticed.
> 
> As to other quiet cubes, I'm not really up to date on the most modern cubes: I prefer to use old-but-good 3x3s and spend more money on bigger cubes if I'm going to. I'm also a batchelor dairy farmer, and the cows don't mind, so I don't pay a lot of attention to noise. That said, the thunderclap v1 is a classic and rightly so. It is a very good cube, and reasonably quiet when properly broken in. The cube I'm using the most these days is actually a YJ Yulong that I put magnets into. It's a heavy cube, both in terms of weight and turning, and prone to corner twists, but very fluid and quiet.


I have a magnetic Senhuan Mars that even your cows might object to. It sounds like a 100 year old roller-coaster.


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## mafergut (Apr 11, 2017)

Hello @Michael919 and welcome to the best place in the whole forum for people our age! No kidding. 

You seem to be very knowledgeable already about 3x3s so I can't recommend you any other quiet cubes out there. Whenever I want to go "under the radar" (on a train, etc.) I either get my 356 Air or a big cube (usually a 5x5) so that I turn slower and make less noise. "Usually a 5x5" because: it's my favorite big cube and, very importanly, I wouldn't dare risk a 4x4 or 6x6 pop while on a train :-D

Other that to avoid excessive noise I don't particularly like the Air and are more fond of cubes like the Valk and other "hollow" and nosier cubes (and older too) like the Yueying, Meiying, the more recent but similar Yan3... and also other old cubes that currently almost nobody uses because they tend to corner twist like Aolong, Thunderclap v1...


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## JohnnyReggae (Apr 11, 2017)

muchacho said:


> I made a stickerless GTS (when 4Chan showed his in a video), I didn't finished it, but it was close, I'll end that mod soon... but anyway, I didn't like the GTS, a bit unstable for me.


After using the GTS for a while I began to dislike it. I couldn't control it and didn't feel that great anymore. ... fwd a year and I decide to put magnets into it. Instant OH main. For me the magnets have given the cube the stability that it lacks, and the easy turning really helps with OH. I'm still using my DIY Air M and Valk M for 2H though.


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## JohnnyReggae (Apr 11, 2017)

Michael919 said:


> Hello fellow older cubers. New 49 yr old member here. Intro:
> 
> https://www.speedsolving.com/forum/threads/new-old-cuber.64495/
> 
> ...


Welcome Michael  There are definitely a number of like-minded individuals here 

I've found the quietest cube to be the GAN Air. With the right lube you can make the Valk quieter than stock, but the Air is IMO the quietest. The GAN cubes definitely have their own feeling and it did take me some time to get used to it, but I love them now.


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## mafergut (Apr 11, 2017)

JohnnyReggae said:


> After using the GTS for a while I began to dislike it. I couldn't control it and didn't feel that great anymore. ... fwd a year and I decide to put magnets into it. Instant OH main. For me the magnets have given the cube the stability that it lacks, and the easy turning really helps with OH. I'm still using my DIY Air M and Valk M for 2H though.


I might use the 2nd pack of magnets I purchased to magnetize my otherwise unused GTS. They are N35, maybe a bit too weak for the think plastic of the GTS? Easy cube to magnetize due to the caps, so that's maybe a nice 1st try at magnetizing?

Also, as promised, the picture of my cubing related birthday present. I'm sure you guessed it right from my hints yesterday  Easy 3x3 shape mod, as all pieces on each layer are identical (4 bottom corners & edges, 4 middle centers & edges and 4 top corners & edges) so you only have to orient them and LL does not need any permutation. But it looks pretty


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## JohnnyReggae (Apr 11, 2017)

mafergut said:


> I might use the 2nd pack of magnets I purchased to magnetize my otherwise unused GTS. They are N35, maybe a bit too weak for the think plastic of the GTS? Easy cube to magnetize due to the caps, so that's maybe a nice 1st try at magnetizing?
> 
> Also, as promised, the picture of my cubing related birthday present. I'm sure you guessed it right from my hints yesterday  Easy 3x3 shape mod, as all pieces on each layer are identical (4 bottom corners & edges, 4 middle centers & edges and 4 top corners & edges) so you only have to orient them and LL does not need any permutation. But it looks pretty
> 
> View attachment 7763


I used N35 4x2mm and they are weak, but to be honest I prefer that feeling to the definite snap of a stronger magnet. I used the same magnets in my Air and it ruined it for me as it was to strong so sold that one off and bought another and put weaker magnets in it.

Nice Apple cube  Looks like a fun solve.


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## newtonbase (Apr 11, 2017)

mafergut said:


> I might use the 2nd pack of magnets I purchased to magnetize my otherwise unused GTS. They are N35, maybe a bit too weak for the think plastic of the GTS? Easy cube to magnetize due to the caps, so that's maybe a nice 1st try at magnetizing?


N35s are popular in the GTS and they would certainly improve it. I have a mix of them with N50s having originally used all N50s but they were too strong.


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## Michael919 (Apr 11, 2017)

Thanks for the replies. Re. Magnets, I have a pile of N35's on the way that I am going to try in my Air and Valk. I'll let you know how it goes.


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## Logiqx (Apr 11, 2017)

@Michael919 - Welcome to the thread!

I do most of my cubing on a train, commuting (no pun intended) to and from work so I only use quiet puzzles. I sit near the same people every day so I don't want to annoy them with noisy cubes!

The Gan range are the quietest 3x3s in my experience but I've recently got a couple of magnetic Valks (one stickered, one stickerless) and they are both surprisingly quiet. The reduced noise was somewhat unexpected but the Valk is definitely quieter when it has magnets added. I have three regular Valks (2 black, 1 stickerless) and one the two magnetic ones (1 black, 1 stickerless) so it's definitely a "thing".

5x5 is also a quiet puzzle to solve when in company.


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## h2f (Apr 11, 2017)

Video showed that a cube was much more solved than you can see it in the final effect: corners and wings and some inner centers were ok before I've started obliques. I'm happy about it.


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## mark49152 (Apr 11, 2017)

h2f said:


> Video showed that a cube was much more solved than you can see it in the final effect: corners and wings and some inner centers were ok before I've started obliques. I'm happy about it.


DNFs are often not as bad as they look. I had a 5BLD DNF earlier that looked bad but was just a single slice error in execution. 4 wings and about 12 centres off made it look worse than it was.

I feel for the guy who did the 10BLD attempt recently and ended up with a scrambled cube due to an early rotation error. Who's to know, but without that one small error the cube might be solved.


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## mafergut (Apr 11, 2017)

Reviewed my last "Goals" post (link in my signature) midway through to the summer deadline. Some nice achievements in 4x4 and 5x5, lagging behind in almost every other event.


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## h2f (Apr 11, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> DNFs are often not as bad as they look.



Yeah.

I've made subs if you wanna see it:


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## pglewis (Apr 11, 2017)

pipkiksass said:


> After I lubed and cleaned my Valk M I also had my first sub-11 lucky solve, and first sub-12 NL. Getting closer to that random fluked sub-10 single!!



I consider a sub-10 single to be "an outlier well within your rights to get". Now, sub 8 and we can call it a fluke . Glad to see you're maintaining and improving, I know real-life has returned and probably cut into practice time. 

@Michael919: Welcome! We're more of a rare breed but there are definitely some active over-40s around. I'm also 49 and a year into speedsolving. I could casually solve back in the early 80s but probably never got faster than a couple minutes. I don't have any further suggestions on specific cubes but you can also experiment with different weight lubes to quiet a noisy cube some. You'll find plenty of great advice and encouragement here and it has been a welcome outlet for rambling on about my obsession... my non-cubing friends are spared a lot of eye-glazing.


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## Jason Green (Apr 11, 2017)

Michael919 said:


> Thanks for the replies. Re. Magnets, I have a pile of N35's on the way that I am going to try in my Air and Valk. I'll let you know how it goes.


Welcome, this is a great place to be! I saw on your welcome post you didn't think you would learn more than 4 look LL. I remember getting into speed cubing close to 2 years ago, and learning about the 57 OLL algs. I thought oh my, who would ever get so obsessed to try and learn all that!  Now I know full PLL and OLL, and some alternatives for OH, etc. My knowledge is still pretty small compared to a lot of the guys on here, but I definitely think I'll continue learning more now!


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## muchacho (Apr 12, 2017)

Today 10 out of 69 solves were sub-16, but mean is not sub-20, when will I stop making so many (of many kinds) mistakes?


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## mafergut (Apr 12, 2017)

muchacho said:


> Today 10 out of 69 solves were sub-16, but mean is not sub-20, when will I stop making so many (of many kinds) mistakes?


I can relate... it's the same problem I have that stops me from really improving my averages further. I can have a couple 15s and the following solve a 23


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## phreaker (Apr 12, 2017)

Updates:

1st Comp Ahead: 29th.

New OH PB: 42.126. (Overall PB also. Full step.) The GTS2 Magnetic is a damn fast cube. I think it may become my OH main... I need to work on what cube I want to main.. and if I want to make a duplicate of it for the competition. Hmnn... (Either a Valk M or GTS2 M, I have the magnets, just would need to order more for my next cubes.)

I know many people like to have a spare cube that's similar to their main to warm up on.

3BLD: I'm working on my "fast memo" technique for edges. I'm skipping verbal and going to taps. I played a game like Simon as a kid up thoruhg ~30 steps. Now against 12-15 steps.. if my mind is on, I've got a a shot. The practice isn't easy, I only get a few shots a night right now. The images etch too well, and I don't put them in rooms, because I don't know how.. I never learned that as a kid!

Overall, I feel like the technique is faster, and it'll come in with practice. It is amazing how much better I see the cycles etc now... I just need practce, practice, practice.. but it is fighting with OH for time .

Need to also decide on my cube for 2H, and BLD. (Even if I DNF all my BLD attempts I will do them... Just to feel what the room feels like when doing BLD..and learn how to do better.)

I'm thinking of setting up my Valk M for 2H/BLD also... Maybe my Gans AIR UM, or a GTS2 with stiffer magnets? Hard to say... So many options... So little time.

I can tell I'm speeding up... overall. Just more practice, and learning.


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## pglewis (Apr 12, 2017)

muchacho said:


> Today 10 out of 69 solves were sub-16, but mean is not sub-20, when will I stop making so many (of many kinds) mistakes?



I know the feeling so well right now. Still haven't ducked 30 for an Ao12... I'll start a session with a 25 and 27, followed by a 45 and 38 just to make sure I blow the average early. A lot of silly mistakes in my timed sessions lately.


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## DVcuber (Apr 12, 2017)

I think you need to have a good muscle memory for all f2l algorithms. You do the pairs very slow, but if you wiil do some fingertricks and fast moves it will be faster. Also you need to learn how to idenfity the pair elements fast, because you spend a lot of time to find them and idenfity the situation. Also you do the cross very slow. Try to do it less then 9 moves.
Thats all.


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## pglewis (Apr 12, 2017)

DVcuber said:


> I think you need to have a good muscle memory for all f2l algorithms. You do the pairs very slow, but if you wiil do some fingertricks and fast moves it will be faster. Also you need to learn how to idenfity the pair elements fast, because you spend a lot of time to find them and idenfity the situation. Also you do the cross very slow. Try to do it less then 9 moves.
> Thats all.



I'm unsure who you're referring to, but this thread is over 700 pages long covering the past several years. If you're critiquing one of Marcel's early recorded solves in this thread, I assure you he has gotten _much_ faster since then .


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## newtonbase (Apr 12, 2017)

phreaker said:


> 3BLD: I'm working on my "fast memo" technique for edges. I'm skipping verbal and going to taps. I played a game like Simon as a kid up thoruhg ~30 steps. Now against 12-15 steps.. if my mind is on, I've got a a shot. The practice isn't easy, I only get a few shots a night right now. The images etch too well, and I don't put them in rooms, because I don't know how.. I never learned that as a kid!
> 
> Overall, I feel like the technique is faster, and it'll come in with practice. It is amazing how much better I see the cycles etc now... I just need practce, practice, practice.. but it is fighting with OH for time .
> 
> Need to also decide on my cube for 2H, and BLD. (Even if I DNF all my BLD attempts I will do them... Just to feel what the room feels like when doing BLD..and learn how to do better.)


Tapping used to be quite popular though I don't know of anyone who still uses it. But, if it works for you then good luck with it. 
Experience in competition is very important in blind events so you have the right idea and you might get lucky. What is the time limit?


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## phreaker (Apr 12, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> Tapping used to be quite popular though I don't know of anyone who still uses it. But, if it works for you then good luck with it.
> Experience in competition is very important in blind events so you have the right idea and you might get lucky. What is the time limit?



Overtime I thought the tapping went away, and you just memorized the pattern. No idea on the time limit. I currently am not expecting to get a time with my current performance... But who knows.


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## Fyzzna (Apr 12, 2017)

After having one hell of a busy week, today I finally had the time to sit down and cube for more than 5 minutes in one session. And what a session it was!

New PBs are: ao5: 26.84 ; ao12: 27.86 ; ao50: 29.96


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## newtonbase (Apr 12, 2017)

phreaker said:


> Overtime I thought the tapping went away, and you just memorized the pattern. No idea on the time limit. I currently am not expecting to get a time with my current performance... But who knows.


It's often 10 or 12 mins in total for your 3 solves but it can vary and if you have a friendly judge they may just let you carry on.


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## mafergut (Apr 13, 2017)

First sub-5min 6x6 single: 4:53.11 with "double" PLL parity (recognized parity where there wasn't any and had to do it twice). It could have been like 4:40 or so.


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## Shaky Hands (Apr 13, 2017)

mafergut said:


> First sub-5min 6x6 single: 4:53.11 with "double" PLL parity (recognized parity where there wasn't any and had to do it twice). It could have been like 4:40 or so.



That felt like a very significant milestone when I managed this. Congratulations.


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## pglewis (Apr 13, 2017)

pglewis said:


> Same here, mine should arrive today. I didn't care for the GTS's I tried at comps but I'll give the stickerless GTS2 a try.



And denied; USPS literally lost the package. Never had that happen before, now the fun of waiting for a claim form, filling it out, returning it, and waiting to be reimbursed.


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## newtonbase (Apr 13, 2017)

pglewis said:


> And denied; USPS literally lost the package. Never had that happen before, now the fun of waiting for a claim form, filling it out, returning it, and waiting to be reimbursed.


Unlucky


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## pglewis (Apr 13, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> Unlucky



Meanwhile I just re-ordered, best two out of three?


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## pglewis (Apr 13, 2017)

I did a dozen timed EO+CFOP solves for the first time in a few days, with unlimited inspection time. Sitting close to :50 and should have had a couple sub 40 but I didn't manage a mistake-free solve in the bunch. The main bottleneck currently is planning the orientation fix-up, especially when there are 6 (the most common case). I aim to solve 6 via 3+4 but even after carefully triple-checking my plans I still manage to botch it 75% of the time for unknown reasons. Still, it's enough positive data to keep me practicing. A lot of potential there considering they were poor solves, I'm not even doing EOLine or using block-building yet, and my overall ZZ-style F2L is clumsy. 

On the CFOP side I finally started seeing more mid 20s and better again last night. The lookahead aspect is so freakin' weird for me. During the recent regression I've been back to finding myself hunting for pieces. When things are flowing I just see stuff... it just seems to happen. I try to focus on that and remind myself when it happens but it doesn't seem to be something I can consciously command and it rarely sticks around for more than a half dozen solves at a time. Just missed a sub 30 Ao12 again last night, though, a couple disasters that resulted in a counting sup 40. A smooth full step :22.x mixed in, been a while since I've had one of those.


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## mafergut (Apr 14, 2017)

Phil @pglewis that's exactly what happens to me. I just can't control when my lookahead is on or off. Even when I try to consciously concentrate it seems to be on and off at its own will and no more than a handful of solves in a row. I wish I could make it happen every solve. Still not timing a single 3x3 solves since like a week ago but not practising a lot of 3x3 lately tbh and, when I do it, mixing some 2H and OH.


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## muchacho (Apr 14, 2017)

42870 14-abr-2017 15:21:51 00:19.774 F2 L2 U' L2 U' R2 D U R2 U F2 R' L2 B2 L' U B' L' B' U2 L'

First sub-20 with non matching blocks... probably also first sub-30, I almost never even try it, but this scramble was asking for it. I somehow managed to mess up F2B but luckily that led me to a CMLL skip.


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## newtonbase (Apr 15, 2017)

Did a 3BLD MO3. 1st didn't time as I left the inspection time on but definitely sub 2mins. 2nd showed as 1:02! My daughter had seen my phone screen dim and tapped to wake it. That was probably sub 2mins too. 3rd was 2:29. I may be incapable of using my phone properly but definitely improving.


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## Logiqx (Apr 15, 2017)

Nice 5x5 times for @mark49152 today!

5x5x5 Cube - Combined First - cut-off 2:30.00
2:13.44 2:11.62 2:01.86 2:30.21 2:16.16 * PB 2:13.74* 2:01.86

5x5x5 Cube - Second Round
1:59.60 2:03.23 1:57.79 2:09.27 1:58.82 * PB 2:00.55* * PB *1:57.79


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## phreaker (Apr 15, 2017)

Practicing leading up to my 1st comp.

I'm feeling a bit burned out towards 3x3... so I ordered a new batch wuque, and a wushuang, both stickerless. (I love QiYi stickerless shades, and stickerless cubes... and I hate the thought of restickering a big cube... ugh!)

Man do I enjoy 4x4... I suck mightly at it. but I enjoy it. set my PB at... 6:11! (laughing) It was a HUGE drop from my previous PB which was like 9m+. If I learn things and take a break... I naturally seem to speed up and the ideas soak in.

The 5x5, that cube is butter out of the box. No regrets. I had to look up 5x5 edge algs to do the final 2 edges. I need to learn some simple algs, so I can 2-3 step that step, so I can carry a 5x5 without a booklet.

I'll say doing ZZ on the 5x5, 3x3 stage was cool.. and the OH algs I know seemed to work really well. (no M moves in my OLL/PLL, but I do use some w moves... I should learn the "Valk" G perms at some point, to replace my current ones.)

I won't even time myself on 5x5 until I can solve it without any assistance. it's a matter of time. But man.. it is fun to play with those two cubes.


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## mafergut (Apr 15, 2017)

@phreaker Nice to see that you ventured into big cubes. You will not regret doing that and the cubes you got are the best you can buy right now in my opinion 

You can do 5x5 last 2 edges with just an adapted 4x4 OLL parity alg. You can reduce any other cases to either solved edges or just one edge with parity.

I injured my right pinky yesterday while playing basketball with my son so I didn't feel like timing myself today at any events involving my right hand... so I did some OH, which I had not done in a long time, maybe months.

Did an Ao50 with my Yan3 and got PB single (26.85 full step, previous was 28.79 PLL skip), another sub 30 single, also full step and PB Ao5 34,71 (previous was 37.93). All previous PBs from August last year. Need some magnets  Also I improved my Ao50 PB by 1 second down to 40,85.


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## phreaker (Apr 15, 2017)

mafergut said:


> @phreaker Nice to see that you ventured into big cubes. You will not regret doing that and the cubes you got are the best you can buy right now in my opinion
> 
> You can do 5x5 last 2 edges with just an adapted 4x4 OLL parity alg. You can reduce any other cases to either solved edges or just one edge with parity.



If you have a reference for the needed alg, I'd appreciate it. I'd like to use my 4x4 knowledge if I can.

Also any advanced tips/techinques on larger cubes. I know some of this for 4x4... but well.. I can only guess 5x5+ is a bit different and pairing up one edge at a time can't be right .


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## mark49152 (Apr 15, 2017)

Logiqx said:


> Nice 5x5 times for @mark49152 today!


Thanks - that 2:00.55 is not only my official PB by 16 seconds but overall ao5 PB by 6 seconds. And yet, I came away disappointed to miss Worlds qualification by 0.55 seconds.

5BLD was not good. I'm pretty sure all three were silly execution errors. I am averaging about 15 at home so I tried to push my speed to get in three attempts within the 45 minute time limit. The times were 15, 17 and 13.xx with the total about a minute over. I should have just done two attempts and gone for a safe sub-20.

Hoping to make it there tomorrow as well, at least for 3BLD.


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## teacher77 (Apr 16, 2017)

At last, I have a new PB (single) : 17.69 sec ! That's a 0,42s improvement over my previous record, which was almost 5 months old.

However, even though my PB doesn't seem to go down, my mo10 constently goes down. I dropped by 2+ seconds since the beggining of 2017. My PB for a mo10 is now 24.52 s (two weeks ago) and I keep beating it every month.

Anyone among the experienced cubers have seen something similar ? I mean an improving average without improvement on the PB single ? What can I understand from that ?


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## h2f (Apr 16, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> Thanks - that 2:00.55 is not only my official PB by 16 seconds but overall ao5 PB by 6 seconds. And yet, I came away disappointed to miss Worlds qualification by 0.55 seconds.
> 
> 5BLD was not good. I'm pretty sure all three were silly execution errors. I am averaging about 15 at home so I tried to push my speed to get in three attempts within the 45 minute time limit. The times were 15, 17 and 13.xx with the total about a minute over. I should have just done two attempts and gone for a safe sub-20.
> 
> Hoping to make it there tomorrow as well, at least for 3BLD.



Very nice times. I'm sad about your 5bld but you know - it's the most difficult event. Congrats.


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## pglewis (Apr 16, 2017)

phreaker said:


> The 5x5, that cube is butter out of the box. No regrets.



The stickerless WuShuang is definitely one of my favorite puzzles. I'm incredibly slow with 5x5 centers and don't practice 5x5 very much at all but I just love turning it. 



phreaker said:


> Also any advanced tips/techinques on larger cubes. I know some of this for 4x4... but well.. I can only guess 5x5+ is a bit different and pairing up one edge at a time can't be right .



Here's a nice no frills reference for 5x5 last 2 edges and last 2 centers: http://meep.cubing.net/5x5.html



teacher77 said:


> Anyone among the experienced cubers have seen something similar ? I mean an improving average without improvement on the PB single ? What can I understand from that ?



I'm not among the experienced but that fits the cycle I've personally experienced. 

* Plateau. Averages hold reasonably steady and it's like there is a "wall" on my best solves, a few seconds faster than my ao5. PB single is an outlier and remains unthreatened. 

* Fastest times begin to move. The previous "wall" on best solves seems to finally come down with a burst of solves below it. PB single starts getting threatened or beaten with faster outliers. Average moves some but not as much as the faster solves are moving, slower solves continue to drag the average down. 

* Fastest times settle down to a new "wall", average starts leaping closer to the new wall as the slower solves become less frequent. 

Repeat.


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## One Wheel (Apr 16, 2017)

teacher77 said:


> Anyone among the experienced cubers have seen something similar ? I mean an improving average without improvement on the PB single ? What can I understand from that ?



I've experienced the same thing. My PB single of 18.79 is about 13 months old. I've improved my average from about 42 to about 32-34, occasionally flirting with sub-30 but I've never yet strung together enough good solves to get more than a Mo3 sub-30. I attribute it to lack of practice on 3x3 and I just got really lucky on that one solve.


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## JanW (Apr 16, 2017)

teacher77 said:


> Anyone among the experienced cubers have seen something similar ? I mean an improving average without improvement on the PB single ? What can I understand from that ?


My PB single (14.06) is around 6 months old. Back then my previous pb single was 17.xx, I improved it by over 3 seconds. Since then I've done close to 5000 timed solves, improved my averages by several seconds, but only managed one more sub-15 solve.

The only thing to understand from this is that sometimes you get really lucky. My 14.06 was <40 moves with all F2L pairs immediately presenting themselves in easily solvable positions, an easy OLL and a PLL skip at the end. Solves like that happen occasionally, and you can't really influence the frequency of lucky solves with training. You can only try to stay focused at all times and make sure your execution of algs is solid, so that when the opportunity for a fast single comes, you don't waste it.


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## h2f (Apr 16, 2017)

teacher77 said:


> Anyone among the experienced cubers have seen something similar ? I mean an improving average without improvement on the PB single ? What can I understand from that ?



There's a simple explanation of it. Average number of moves needed to solve the cube is 56 if you use CFOP. The lowest number to solve the cube is 16 according to WCA scrambling rules but this cant happen with CFOP. With CFOP there can come solves with around 30 (or even less) moves to solve the cube. This means that in a single solve you can do it in 15 seconds (or less) when you turn a cube with only 2 TPS but in a long run your times will be over 25 seconds with the same TPS.

The second thing which explains it that your ability of solving the cube is not constant. It's up of the state of your mind, and even if you are relaxed and you solve fine your mind can be tired after bunch of solves and the ability goes down.

The best single solves means that you had a nice, short solution which met with your best actual ability of solving.


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## JanW (Apr 16, 2017)

Another thing to keep in mind regarding improving singles vs improving averages is that learning new techniques is much more likely to improve your averages. Since my PB single I've learned full OLL and greatly improved recognition of the more difficult PLLs, which has no effect on a single solve with sune and PLL skip.

I copied my latest Ao1000 (22.50) into excel for some stats. It includes:

201 sub-20 solves
109 sub-19 solves
55 sub-18 solves
19 sub-17 solves
4 sub-16 solves
1 sub-15 solve

220 sup-25 solves
40 sup-30 solves

I remember saying around Christmas that the next milestone would be making sub-20s more frequent than sup-30s. I think I can safely say now that I've achieved that.  Next step, make those sub-20s more frequent than sup-25s.

Even if it feels like I haven't improved much the past few months, these stats show me that I get sub-20s twice as often as at the start of the year. That's definitely an improvement! Not to mention that Ao1000 also is almost 2 seconds faster than it was at the end of last year.


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## muchacho (Apr 16, 2017)

My last 1000 solves:

- Only 19 sup-30 solves... I was sure it was going to be much more than that 
- 4 DNFs
- Mean without DNFs: 20.160
- Best solve: 13.456 (PB is 11.801 from November)


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## Lid (Apr 16, 2017)

Yet another sub10 single on Square-1 
9.799 (-2, 0) / (5, -4) / (6, -3) / (0, -3) / (0, -2) / (6, -3) / (-4, -5) / (2, 0) / (0, -1) / (4, -5) / (5, 0) / (1, -3)
5,-3/-4,0/1,0/-2,0/-1,-2/-3,0/ : CS
-3,2/ : CO
1,-5/-3,0/-1,-1/4,1/ : EO
3,0/3,0/-1,-1/-2,1/5,0 : EP
So just a CP skip.

My main focus for next comp (6 wks) is of cause Sq-1 (goal sub20 avg, but preferly sub18), plus Megaminx (sub1:50avg), 4x4 (sub1 single) and OH (PB...say sub27avg & 20-21 single).


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## pipkiksass (Apr 16, 2017)

Interesting talk of improving averages vs. singles. I've found that my averages improve more consistently, but I've actually had a fair few PB singles recently, as my averages have improved.

I think there's two things going on here - improvement and consistency.

Timed solves make you more consistent, i.e. reduce the variance in your times. No matter how many timed solves you do, you won't get faster, you'll just get more consistent. With consistency comes improved averages. For example, my PB Ao12 is 15.96, and that was 12 solves all between 15 and 18 seconds - no amazing singles, no terrible ones.

What tends to screw up an otherwise great average is a terrible single - if you average 20 seconds and get a 30 second single in an average, that makes the 24/25 second solve you do later in the average count. Without the 30 second single, the 24/25 is the worst, and is eliminated from the average. Hence, more consistent = better averages.

Statistically speaking, the likelihood of getting a PB single with purely timed solves is very low, but the probability of improving your averages is very high. In fact, the more consistent you get, the less likely you are to improve your PB single! Maths, eh?

When you actually improve, the mathematical mean of your solves becomes lower. You become "better" at some part of the solve, whether it's lookahead, cross>F2L transition, LL algs, or what-have-you. This happens through specific, targeted practice. As the mean of your solves is lower, the "outliers" i.e. the solves that are n standard deviations from the mean, will also be faster.

What you also tend to find, as you improve, is that the variance in your times goes up, albeit temporarily. This is generally because sometimes your new habits abandon you, and you revert to the old (bad ones). It's often during these periods of dramatic improvement, and increased variance, that you will get that ridiculous PB single.

So, in short:
deliberate practice => improvement => PB singles;
spamming timed solves => consistency => PB averages.


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## mafergut (Apr 16, 2017)

I agree with all that has been said about single "outliers" and averages. I keep spoiling my averages with sup-22 solves as hard as I try to be as close as possible to 100% sub-20. That's what prevents me from getting into sub-18 territory in long averages. Anyway, I'm away from the timer in 2H 3x3 for the time being so, I'll tell you if I find any breakthrough when I come back as a product of the deliberate practise of slow solving and focusing on lookahead and efficiency.

My right pinky is better today but I decided to continue with OH practice and like 5 solves into the session I got another sub-30 single... the exact same time as my PB single from yesterday: 26.85, also full step. Why? Oh, why?



phreaker said:


> If you have a reference for the needed alg, I'd appreciate it. I'd like to use my 4x4 knowledge if I can.
> 
> Also any advanced tips/techinques on larger cubes. I know some of this for 4x4... but well.. I can only guess 5x5+ is a bit different and pairing up one edge at a time can't be right .



The alg is the famous "lucasparity" that many people uses to solve 4x4 OLL parity. Just slightly adapted to 5x5. In the link that was provided in one of the posts above you can find it named as O-parity and in particular is the 3rd one listed there:

Rw U2 x Rw U2 Rw U2 3Rw' U2 Lw U2 Rw' U2 Rw U2 Rw' U2 Rw'

Regarding tips for larger cubes, to be honest I'm not advanced enough to give any advice other than watch the recent weekly series of videos by Kevin Hays.


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## newtonbase (Apr 16, 2017)

I see @mark49152 got a 3BLD PB that would have got 2nd place if it had been in the final.


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## Shaky Hands (Apr 16, 2017)

Time for the usual post-competition summary:

*Saturday*
2x2: No practice but managed a PB single of 6.77. Just 0.25s away from PB average.
3x3 One Handed: Also another event I don't practice. Fluked my way through to gettting an average but no PB's.
5x5: Several sub-2:30 solves in practice before, but in my first actual solve I had a center cap fly out which affected my grip. Second solve felt about 15 seconds quicker than it actually was. Missed opportunity.
Clock: A DNF in the final solve led to a counting 27.xx which wrecked my chances of a PB average. I had a couple of 15.xx singes but no PB's there either.
Megaminx: This was my first time competing in Mega and it gave me the chance to record a 3:44.29 single which I'm very happy with as a starting point. This was the event I'd put the most time into between the previous competition and this one.

*Sunday*
FMC: Just using CFOP for this, I found a PB solve (54) and spent 25 minutes writing it down and triple-checking it before handing it in so I could get on with practicing. There was an easy cross on Yellow with a pair preserved.
Skewb: My magnetic Skewb popped in the first solve, so I swapped it for a regular Skewb for the remaining solves. It was pointed out to me I need to work on my first layer, but it's not an event I plan to put much practice into. 4th solve was a PB single anyway.
3x3: PB average of 23.16 (1.45s improvement.) In the first solve I had a twisted corner that I needed to fix and this made me lose my lookahead for the last layer. The third solve was a PLL skip but everything before it was slow. Happy with the average though.
4x4: 1 second away from PB single and 0.11s away from PB average. A counting 1:34 was disappointing.
3x3 BLD: First solve I realised I made a memo blunder as I had an even edge count and an odd corner count. Second solve felt good although not exactly at an inspiring speed. No successes.

5 PB's in all so a worthwhile trip even if nothing groundbreaking. Main highlights were catching up with @mark49152 and other familiar faces as well as recording my first Mega solves.


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## Jason Green (Apr 16, 2017)

teacher77 said:


> Anyone among the experienced cubers have seen something similar ? I mean an improving average without improvement on the PB single ? What can I understand from that ?


Yes my last two PBs are 12s and it has been many months between even though I'm slowly improving still. And improving on other things now like 4x4 and OH which consumes practice time of course. I'm at a point where I "feel" like I should be sub 18, but inconsistencies keep me sub 18.5 still. Looking forward to the next lucky pb, they sure are fun!

Speaking of PBs, just had my first sub 30 OH solve of 28.9.


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## mark49152 (Apr 16, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> I see @mark49152 got a 3BLD PB that would have got 2nd place if it had been in the final.


It was nice to get an overdue 3BLD PB although I was disappointed it wasn't a bigger margin than 5 seconds. My previous PB was set last summer with OP corners, since which I've wiped over 20 seconds off my averages at home.

I am going to rethink my 3BLD memo approach, because it doesn't stand up well to the pressure of competition. I don't trust it under pressure and end up wasting time checking or reviewing.

Nothing much else to report. Mediocre 4x4 and 3x3 round 1, and a shocker in 3x3 round 2. Generally a disappointing set of results for me, except the unexpected 5x5 average that has dangled the carrot of Worlds qualification and given me another target to take seriously for Crawley .

Still, it was an enjoyable comp, and nice to catch up with Andy and the other UK cubers as always.


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## JanW (Apr 17, 2017)

Some nice new PBs today. Ao100 down to 21.47, Ao50 for the first time sub-21 with 20.69, and the big one, my first sub-20 Ao12! 

Generated By csTimer on 2017-4-17
avg of 12: 19.74

Time List:
1. 18.39 U2 B' U2 B' R' U' R' D2 B' D B2 U2 F2 L2 D' R2 B2 D' L2
2. 18.92 U' R2 B' U2 L2 B D' L B2 U D' F2 U B2 D' F2 U2 F2 L2 B'
3. 18.29 F D2 F D2 L2 F' D2 B R2 B2 U R' U' B D L B' D B2 L2
4. 18.16 F2 L2 F L2 D2 U2 B D2 B F' L U2 R2 D' L U2 F' D B
5. 20.81 U2 B2 F D2 U2 R2 F2 D2 F' U2 B' R U' B' L D2 L D R2 U R
6. 20.48 D' F' U L2 D' L' D' F2 R2 D2 B' R2 B R2 B' R2 F2 L'
7. 23.03 B2 D2 B2 U' R2 B2 F2 D F2 L2 U B' L' B2 U B' D' F' R D' L'
8. (25.93) R L B R D2 L2 D B' L2 F2 U R2 U D F2 U2 L2 R'
9. 18.93 U' F2 L2 D U2 R2 U' F2 U B D' F' U2 R' D2 U F D2 B'
10. (18.11) R D2 U' L2 D2 U F2 D' B2 R2 U' R2 F U2 R D B2 D F2 R F
11. 19.66 F2 R2 U B2 R2 U' L2 D' B2 R2 D R' B' U B2 L R2 B2 D' L' B
12. 20.68 D' U' B2 L2 R2 U' L2 F2 L2 D2 R2 F U F2 U' R' B L F' D B2

The session also included my second fastest solve ever, 14.58. That would be my 3rd sub-15 ever. I can feel that the pb single won't hold up very long anymore.


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## mafergut (Apr 17, 2017)

Continuing with my OH practise and I finally combined a quite decent solve with a PLL skip for an incredible (for me) improvement in my PB single down to 22.49. I've got more sub-30 solves in two days than ever before... still my average s*cks.

Here's the scramble for anyone interested: L2 B2 D2 R2 F2 U B2 U2 L2 U2 R' U L' F R' F2 D2 B F U'

You can check some additional reflections on 2H vs OH here in the Relative Solve Times thread.


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## Fyzzna (Apr 17, 2017)

Got my first sub 20 single today! 

Scramble: U' R2 D2 U' B2 D' F2 U' R2 F2 L2 R' B' R U2 F' L2 U R D2 R2
Time: 17.37


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## h2f (Apr 17, 2017)

@JanW, congrats.

@mafergut I've started to practice OH CFOP some months ago. I've relearnt some PLLs and OLLs. And my times are down now to sub33 again sub18 in 2H.


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## pglewis (Apr 17, 2017)

JanW said:


> Some nice new PBs today. Ao100 down to 21.47, Ao50 for the first time sub-21 with 20.69, and the big one, my first sub-20 Ao12!
> 
> Generated By csTimer on 2017-4-17
> avg of 12: 19.74
> ...



Huge milestone on the Ao12! I finally ducked :30 for an Ao12... it shouldn't matter what my spreadsheet says but I find it does something positive for me mentally, anyway. Keep trailblazing for me, I'm looking to reach the point where 25s are my throwaways too.


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## pglewis (Apr 17, 2017)

Fyzzna said:


> Got my first sub 20 single today!
> 
> Scramble: U' R2 D2 U' B2 D' F2 U' R2 F2 L2 R' B' R U2 F' L2 U R D2 R2
> Time: 17.37



Well done! Have you been browsing for competitions nearby? We need to get you to a comp, pronto.


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## Fyzzna (Apr 17, 2017)

pglewis said:


> Well done! Have you been browsing for competitions nearby? We need to get you to a comp, pronto.


I just looked through the upcoming competitions, there is one reasonably near by in July so I might be going to that.


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## mafergut (Apr 17, 2017)

h2f said:


> @JanW, congrats.
> 
> @mafergut I've started to practice OH CFOP some months ago. I've relearnt some PLLs and OLLs. And my times are down now to sub33 again sub18 in 2H.


That's sub 2x relative times, which is very nice. I would need to learn some new OLLs specific for OH as I have several lefty ones that do not work very well for OH. Some of them can be adapted with a z rotation but others not so much.


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## pglewis (Apr 17, 2017)

pglewis said:


> Meanwhile I just re-ordered, best two out of three?



Postal service didn't lose this one. Picked up a couple 3x3s and some DNM-37 primarily to try on my stickerless Valk (with their continued schizophrenia, my black stickered one is suddenly awesome again lately and I'm not touching it).

* ShengShou FangYuan: Doesn't come in stickerless but I'm mostly getting it just to have one in the collection, so black stickered it is. Fast and perfectly serviceable right out of the box, though the tensions may be a little bit loose. I'll probably tighten it some, put in some 50k, and let 'er break in.

* GTS2 stickerless: Very nice feeling right out of the box, fast enough that I decided on a few drops of 50k. I think Valk fans are going to enjoy this puzzle, could be a main contender. Shades contrast nicely, non-fluro yellow and a little lighter blue and red than Valk shades; closely matches the MF3RS stickerless shades. [Edit: After some solves this cube feels a lot like a refined MF3RS to me, without the minor catching and tracking issues. There is what I'll call a "guide collar" around the centers and the pieces appear to have more guiding bits than the simpler design on the budget MF3RS]


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## muchacho (Apr 17, 2017)

I've counted the CMLL algs I use for OH and it's 18 (out of 42) plus a couple more I need to relearn again, so almost half of them already


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## h2f (Apr 17, 2017)

mafergut said:


> That's sub 2x relative times, which is very nice. I would need to learn some new OLLs specific for OH as I have several lefty ones that do not work very well for OH. Some of them can be adapted with a z rotation but others not so much.



I think the 2x indicator is not correct when you do a regular practice in OH. For example in Igor Kowalczyk's case (Euro Champ) it's 1.2, Pleskowicz's - 1,59 etc. But I believe in a lower milestones like being sub30 or sub20 they can be closer. I think I'm able to reach sub30 if I practice enough.


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## pglewis (Apr 18, 2017)

I have my official 4x4 debut in June with liberal cuts at 2:00/3:00 so it's time to dust off the WuQue. Got my first sub 2:00... 1:59.58 lol. I hadn't done an Ao12 in ages, knocked a minute off that. When your times are so bad that _not_ practicing makes you much faster .


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## Bart Van Eynde (Apr 18, 2017)

Hi all,

I'm a fairly new speedcube enthousiast. I'm in my late 30's so I guess that's considered to be of the older dudes. I fell in love with the original rubik's cube early 2010 and starting to learn the beginner's method. It took me like 4+ mins to solve it back then and it got put aside for many years. In the beginning of this year my youngest daughter (age 4) found it and started to mess with it. So I started to solve it again so she could scramble it again. Then one day she threw it on the floor and it broke. So I bought a Rubik's Speedcube pro-pack and started to learn F2L.
My times where slow as hell going from 3:30 to 4:00 mins (even slower when trying F2L) but I kept practicing and times came down to 2:00 to 2:30 mins. Then 2-look OLL brought me around 1:30 to 2:00 mins and finally PLL (not all) got me to sub 1:20. 
Recently I bought myself a Tanglong and now my personal best is 50.260 sec.
My weakest points ... white cross, F2L, and I'm a slow turner


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## muchacho (Apr 18, 2017)

Welcome Bart!

First solve with the Valk3, it was sub-20, it feels really nice. Blue pieces are darker than what I'm used to but it's not a problem, red ones also darker, those could be a problem.


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## h2f (Apr 18, 2017)

muchacho said:


> Welcome Bart!
> 
> First solve with the Valk3, it was sub-20, it feels really nice. Blue pieces are darker than what I'm used to but it's not a problem, red ones also darker, those could be a problem.



Is it stckerless or stickered?


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## muchacho (Apr 18, 2017)

Stickerless (with a black side from a black cube). 20 solves and still sub-20.


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## h2f (Apr 18, 2017)

muchacho said:


> Stickerless (with a black side from a black cube). 20 solves and still sub-20.



Nice. 

After a few weeks with Valk M I did ao50 with stickerless Valk - sub18. I'm glad.


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## muchacho (Apr 18, 2017)

Ao12 PB: 16.237 (was 17.198 from 5 weeks ago)

The cube is not bad, I guess.



Spoiler



43113 18-abr-2017 18:15:25 00:16.655 F2 D R2 B2 F2 U' B2 F2 U2 F2 L2 F L2 D B' L' D R B U R2 U'
43112 18-abr-2017 18:14:42 00:16.558 D B2 L2 B2 U2 F2 U' R2 D B2 F2 R' F2 D' U2 B' R2 D2 R D F' U'
43111 18-abr-2017 18:14:03 00:15.280 D B2 D' R2 F2 U B2 R2 F2 U' B R' F2 U2 F R' L U B2 D' L'
43110 18-abr-2017 18:13:28 00:15.822 B2 U L2 U2 B2 D' L2 U' B2 R2 F2 R F' D2 B2 F2 D L U F' L'
43109 18-abr-2017 18:12:44 00:22.342 D' L2 D B2 R2 L2 U' F2 D' U' R' D' U' F D B' D2 L' B2 D
43108 18-abr-2017 18:12:01 00:15.559 R2 U L2 U2 R2 D R2 D B2 U2 L2 B U' R2 F' D' L U B' R2 B' F'
43107 18-abr-2017 18:11:22 00:14.975 B2 L2 F2 U' L2 B2 D2 L2 U L2 U' B' R2 B2 F' R' D R2 B' U L D2
43106 18-abr-2017 18:10:33 00:20.038 L2 U' F2 U2 F2 D2 F2 L2 B2 R2 U2 F' D2 R' U2 L F R' F2 U' F
43105 18-abr-2017 18:09:56 00:14.239 L2 U2 F2 U' L2 B2 U2 F2 D R2 U' L D B U2 R' F2 D2 B' D' B2
43104 18-abr-2017 18:09:17 00:17.422 U2 B2 L2 U' L2 U R2 U' R2 D2 F' D' B2 D2 U' B F R D R2 L'
43103 18-abr-2017 18:08:48 00:15.231 U' L2 U' R2 F2 R2 L2 U2 F2 D' L' B R' U F R B' D U' R'
43102 18-abr-2017 18:08:13 00:14.839 U' R2 L2 D R2 U2 F2 L2 B2 U2 L' U2 L' F U2 F2 D2 L' U F2


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## Lazy Einstein (Apr 18, 2017)

Less than 150 ZBLL to go in L, U, and T before I am done. I am spending the next week or two going over my AS and S to ensure I am happy with the algorithms I have; if not I will generate more. If I am happy, I am going to practice recognition and execution.


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## Lazy Einstein (Apr 18, 2017)

muchacho said:


> Stickerless (with a black side from a black cube). 20 solves and still sub-20.



Ever try dying a cube?
I really want to try dying white to little grey but I am almost too nervous to go through with it.


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## muchacho (Apr 18, 2017)

I tried, with a Yuhu megaminx and (black) Rit dye with green pieces, it didn't work.


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## mafergut (Apr 18, 2017)

muchacho said:


> Welcome Bart!
> 
> First solve with the Valk3, it was sub-20, it feels really nice. Blue pieces are darker than what I'm used to but it's not a problem, red ones also darker, those could be a problem.


Yeah, welcome @Bart Van Eynde !!! The more the merrier and, of course, you qualify as an "oldie" by speedcubing standards 

David @muchacho, yes, the Valk3 is one of the best feeling cubes out of the box. Sadly mine has slowed down a bit and right now I find myself using my Yan3 more. By the way, if those dark red and blue cause you problems maybe the stickerless shades of the Yan3 might be better, as both colours are lighter on it. Can't wait for my magnets to arrive to convert it in a great OH cube, maybe 2H too.


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## muchacho (Apr 18, 2017)

I'd prefer they were lighter (at least the red), but it's almost ok. I'll probably end trying the Yan3 (and the GTS2) but for now I think I'm set.


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## mafergut (Apr 18, 2017)

muchacho said:


> I'd prefer they were lighter (at least the red), but it's almost ok. I'll probably end trying the Yan3 (and the GTS2) but for now I think I'm set.


I'll tell you as soon as my stickerless GTS2 arrives in the mail 
Congratulations on your impressive improvement of almost 1 second in your Ao12 PB. Now you are (un)officially faster than I am at 2H (you were already a lot faster at OH). Well, also officially, as I have yet to go to a comp


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## One Wheel (Apr 18, 2017)

I just did my first more-or-less serious 3x3 practice in a while, trying out a few different cubes I have laying around. I've got a long ways to go to catch up with most of you, but here are the results:

Moyu Tanglong: 33.773 Ao5, 31.539 Ao12, 5.326 Standard Deviation
GuoGuan Yuexiao: 31.14 Ao5, 32.858 Ao12, 3.926 SD
YJ Yulong M: 30.590 Ao5, 32.969 Ao12, 5.224 SD
Qiyi Thunderclap: 30.967 Ao5, 33.581 Ao12, 4.260 SD
Yuxin 3x3 34.433 Ao5, 33.571 Ao12, 4.701 SD

I'm a little surprised that there does seem to be a difference even at my speed. The YueXiao seems to be faster and more consistent, although the Tanglong did result in a significantly better Ao12. I suspect that if I sat down and did a long average with each of them the YueXiao would win. The Ao5 is the first five solves with each cube, then I put all five in a basket and pulled them out at random to finish the Ao12. The best single out of 60 solves was 23.79 with the Tanglong (PLL skip), the worst was a 1:18 pop that I discarded, also with the Tanglong. The worst I left in was a 45.33 with the Yulong M.


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## mitja (Apr 18, 2017)

I use Valk 3, but I needed months to get used to the speed, and only with magnets I start to like it. Yuexiao is the cube with the best stability, I understand why you like it.


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## mark49152 (Apr 18, 2017)

Behold, for your viewing pleasure, my spectacular 3BLD PB from Newcastle. Not looking happy because I knew I'd blown a good solve with those ~10 seconds of pauses during corner exec. It doesn't even look like a speedsolve. More practice definitely needed...


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## h2f (Apr 19, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> Behold, for your viewing pleasure, my spectacular 3BLD PB from Newcastle. Not looking happy because I knew I'd blown a good solve with those ~10 seconds of pauses during corner exec. It doesn't even look like a speedsolve. More practice definitely needed...



Nerves make their job. Mark - it's nice solution anyway. You're fast executing algs, I like your turning style.


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## Fyzzna (Apr 19, 2017)

Welcome @Bart Van Eynde! If I can pass as an 'oldie' around here (I'm 27) you should have no problem doing so either 



One Wheel said:


> I just did my first more-or-less serious 3x3 practice in a while, trying out a few different cubes I have laying around. I've got a long ways to go to catch up with most of you, but here are the results: [...]



Have you noticed any significant difference between stickered and stickerless cubes? As I have only 2 cubes laying around, I can't really do an extensive test but my average times are a good 3-4 seconds slower on my stickered GTS than they are on my stickerless Valk. Question now is if the GTS simply doesn't suit my turning style or if my recognition with stickered cubes is just spectacularly bad.


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## h2f (Apr 19, 2017)

Fyzzna said:


> Have you noticed any significant difference between stickered and stickerless cubes?



There's a big difference between black and color plastic. Polish cuber Michał Halczuk mentioned on FB that adding black pigment makes plastic a little harder and makes more grip in it. I can feel a difference between Valk Black and stickerless. The second is faster and softer and makes my recognition a little bit better.


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## JohnnyReggae (Apr 19, 2017)

mafergut said:


> yes, the Valk3 is one of the best feeling cubes out of the box. Sadly mine has slowed down a bit and right now I find myself using my Yan3 more. By the way, if those dark red and blue cause you problems maybe the stickerless shades of the Yan3 might be better, as both colours are lighter on it. Can't wait for my magnets to arrive to convert it in a great OH cube, maybe 2H too.


I found my Valk also slow down after a while. Cleaned it out and lubed it and it slowed down within a few days. Did the same cleanout etc, with the same result. So cleaned it out and left it unlubed for around 1000 or so solves. I then lubed it with 2 drops of DNM37, and it is now an amazing cube that seems to keeps it's smoothness no matter the number of solves on it. I lube it with DNM37 about every 2 weeks or so, just 2 drops, and it maintains nicely.


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## One Wheel (Apr 19, 2017)

Fyzzna said:


> Have you noticed any significant difference between stickered and stickerless cubes? As I have only 2 cubes laying around, I can't really do an extensive test but my average times are a good 3-4 seconds slower on my stickered GTS than they are on my stickerless Valk. Question now is if the GTS simply doesn't suit my turning style or if my recognition with stickered cubes is just spectacularly bad



The Tanglong is brown plastic, the others in that set are all black plastic. The only stickerless cube I've spent any significant time with is my Zhanchi, and back when I did I was running sup-40. I prefer the aesthetics of stickered black plastic, and I like the little extra grip at the edge of the stickers, although I think as I improve the importance of the grip is decreasing.


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## mitja (Apr 19, 2017)

Lots of cubers prefer stickered cubes because of better grip. Stickerless feels slippery. Not to me, I sweat in my hands when I speedsolve, so I prefer stickerless and I also handle the colour recognition better on stickerless cubes.


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## mitja (Apr 19, 2017)

JohnnyReggae said:


> I found my Valk also slow down after a while. Cleaned it out and lubed it and it slowed down within a few days. Did the same cleanout etc, with the same result. So cleaned it out and left it unlubed for around 1000 or so solves. I then lubed it with 2 drops of DNM37, and it is now an amazing cube that seems to keeps it's smoothness no matter the number of solves on it. I lube it with DNM37 about every 2 weeks or so, just 2 drops, and it maintains nicely.


Valk slow? Hmm, I don't even dare to try DNM-37 in my Valk. It is too fast. But I got used to it. I only use Traxas 50K in it, core and the pieces, to slow it down.


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## pglewis (Apr 19, 2017)

Fyzzna said:


> Have you noticed any significant difference between stickered and stickerless cubes? As I have only 2 cubes laying around, I can't really do an extensive test but my average times are a good 3-4 seconds slower on my stickered GTS than they are on my stickerless Valk. Question now is if the GTS simply doesn't suit my turning style or if my recognition with stickered cubes is just spectacularly bad.



I definitely feel like I recognize better with stickerless vs. stickered. I seem to be able to recognize LL cases sooner with stickerless, especially OLL. There seems to be something about stickered and my OCD that delays recognition unless/until the U layer is totally aligned. It's easy to get superstitious with speedcubing though. I had a great session last week including my PB Ao12 with a stickered Valk and I've landed low 20s with a stickered Guhong. 



mitja said:


> Valk slow? Hmm, I don't even dare to try DNM-37 in my Valk. It is too fast. But I got used to it. I only use Traxas 50K in it, core and the pieces, to slow it down.



A few of us have experienced the "slowing Valk syndrome" but definitely not everyone. The sluggishness is relative for me but very noticeable. My first Valk's speed initially prompted me to loosen and setup my Thunderclaps a little faster because it made them feel a little sluggish by comparison. A week later the Valk was a lot more sluggish than out of the box. Currently my black stickered one has been doing great for a couple weeks without intervention. The stickerless, while not slow, was more sluggish and low weight lube was only a short term solution (and Maru even shorter-term). A couple drops of DNM-37 has definitely done the trick for a couple days now. Way too fast right after application, but after 10-15 mins it settled in right where I like it.


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## mark49152 (Apr 19, 2017)

h2f said:


> Nerves make their job. Mark - it's nice solution anyway. You're fast executing algs, I like your turning style.


Thanks. Audio memo seems to be my weakness under comp pressure. It's as if I'm distracted by the nerves and "not listening" when I recite the audio loop in my head. My goal is to find a solution for that.


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## newtonbase (Apr 20, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> Thanks. Audio memo seems to be my weakness under comp pressure. It's as if I'm distracted by the nerves and "not listening" when I recite the audio loop in my head. My goal is to find a solution for that.


I know exactly what you mean. You recite it without a problem but when you start solving it suddenly becomes_ do da do da do da._


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## h2f (Apr 20, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> Thanks. Audio memo seems to be my weakness under comp pressure. It's as if I'm distracted by the nerves and "not listening" when I recite the audio loop in my head. My goal is to find a solution for that.





newtonbase said:


> I know exactly what you mean. You recite it without a problem but when you start solving it suddenly becomes_ do da do da do da._



That's what I'm facing too. In my last comp I could do execution after 20 seconds but I was affraid of forgeting memo. So I recalled it and again - it ended long time and DNF...


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## JohnnyReggae (Apr 20, 2017)

mitja said:


> Valk slow? Hmm, I don't even dare to try DNM-37 in my Valk. It is too fast. But I got used to it. I only use Traxas 50K in it, core and the pieces, to slow it down.


I've moved onto cubes that are loose and fast after using the GAN Air as my main for quite a while. The tensions on my Valk are very loose, in fact so loose that I have popped a piece out here and there  The magnets help keep it stable even if those magnets are on the weaker side. Other than the DNM37 I only use Traxxas 10K as the thicker lubes just make my cubes way to slow and sluggish.


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## mark49152 (Apr 20, 2017)

The screws on my Valk turn so easily I suspect it's loosening by itself. Anyone else have that problem?


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## JohnnyReggae (Apr 20, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> The screws on my Valk turn so easily I suspect it's loosening by itself. Anyone else have that problem?


I've only had that problem with my Air with the G-Series nuts.


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## muchacho (Apr 20, 2017)

New PBs for OH:
Ao5: 24.404
Ao12: 26.991

Old ones:
Ao5: 25.361 (15-jan-17)
Ao12: 27.862 (1-apr-17)

I'm (barely) sub-30 for the last 73 solves, I think I'm going to try to go for sub-30 Mo100, hope I don't mess it up. If I don't post in 30 minutes then it's bad news.


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## muchacho (Apr 20, 2017)

Arrgh, not even close, 30.768 (still PB, it was 31.766 from 3 weeks ago). Almost 50 solves in a session is too much for my hand, and anyway I failed a couple of CMLLs.


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## pglewis (Apr 20, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> The screws on my Valk turn so easily I suspect it's loosening by itself. Anyone else have that problem?



I have intermittently had one side get looser on me a couple times in the past. I wonder if you're on to something here, if it can loosen on its own it could very well tighten on its own. I'm grasping at straws for a cause of the slow-downs since I haven't come up with a reasonable theory explaining the randomness.


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## h2f (Apr 21, 2017)

muchacho said:


> Arrgh, not even close, 30.768 (still PB, it was 31.766 from 3 weeks ago). Almost 50 solves in a session is too much for my hand, and anyway I failed a couple of CMLLs.



Impressive! I had a comp for 2 weeks and the cutoff is 30 seconds. I wonder if i can come closer to the limit. Right now I got only 1/4 solves under the limit.


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## muchacho (Apr 21, 2017)

Failed Ao5 PB attempt (last cube was an M2 away from solved), it would have been 14.889 

43322 21-abr-2017 10:07:20 00:14.087 DNF L2 D' F2 R2 D' B2 L2 U2 R2 L2 U2 L' F' R' U' L B2 R D' F' L U'
43321 21-abr-2017 10:06:34 00:15.856 D2 F2 R2 F2 U' B2 L2 F2 L2 D2 U B L F' L B2 R L' F D F2 U2
43320 21-abr-2017 10:05:55 00:15.822 L2 D2 B2 U' B2 R2 D' B2 U F2 U' L' F2 D2 L B' L2 F D' R B2
43319 21-abr-2017 10:05:17 00:13.319 U2 B2 R2 F2 U R2 D F2 U B2 U B R2 D R' F' L F D2 U B2 F'
43318 21-abr-2017 10:04:13 00:14.760 U L2 U R2 F2 L2 U2 R2 F2 D B2 L D R' U L' D F' R L


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## JohnnyReggae (Apr 21, 2017)

New OH PB's  I'm trying to spend more time doing OH and the practice is slowly paying off averaging mid-to-low 30's. Then every now and then I manage a few sub 30's in a row. Changing some of my OLL algs has paid off hugely and also learning a few more OLL's. Still use 2Look OLL a lot.

As a side note, I find that doing the cross the most awkward part of the OH solve. It's the needing to turn a number of different faces, sometimes all of them which really gets to me and can easily take a good few seconds longer to do. Has anyone felt the same, and have you managed to change that ?

single : 21.87
mo3 : 28.15
ao5 : 28.97
ao12 : 31.14
ao100 : 33.47


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## JohnnyReggae (Apr 21, 2017)

muchacho said:


> Failed Ao5 PB attempt (last cube was an M2 away from solved), it would have been 14.889
> 
> 43322 21-abr-2017 10:07:20 00:14.087 DNF L2 D' F2 R2 D' B2 L2 U2 R2 L2 U2 L' F' R' U' L B2 R D' F' L U'
> 43321 21-abr-2017 10:06:34 00:15.856 D2 F2 R2 F2 U' B2 L2 F2 L2 D2 U B L F' L B2 R L' F D F2 U2
> ...


Those are some good consistent times


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## muchacho (Apr 21, 2017)

Next solve after that DNF was a 36 seconds solve, and then a 16, I'm consistent enough for a good Ao5 or Ao12, but I'm not good at longer averages, I mess up too much.

I try to use easier to fingertrick moves for first block in OH (more moves but faster), can't that be done in CFOP?


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## Logiqx (Apr 21, 2017)

muchacho said:


> Failed Ao5 PB attempt (last cube was an M2 away from solved), it would have been 14.889
> 
> 43322 21-abr-2017 10:07:20 00:14.087 DNF L2 D' F2 R2 D' B2 L2 U2 R2 L2 U2 L' F' R' U' L B2 R D' F' L U'
> 43321 21-abr-2017 10:06:34 00:15.856 D2 F2 R2 F2 U' B2 L2 F2 L2 D2 U B L F' L B2 R L' F D F2 U2
> ...



Very nice. So consistent!

You'll due a sub-15 Ao5 any time now. I've only had 4 to date.


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## mafergut (Apr 21, 2017)

@JohnnyReggae yeah, I find the cross the most awkward part of the solve in OH too. I try to grab the cube in ways that can at least simplify frist two or three edges, which can be from one side of even from the top but at times I lose track of my orientation for a split second or even fumble the cube.

Both you and @muchacho have great new OH PBs! I'm much slower than you guys but also got some new PBs this week:
Single: 22.49 Impressive single (PLL skip) for my average times, I had already bragged about it earlier 
Ao5: 34.71
Ao12: 37.35
Ao50: 39.19
Ao100: 39.71 my first sub-40 Ao50 & 100. I'm still too slow turning and need to learn many OLLs and maybe change a couple PLLs. I'm much closer to full CN than in 2H, though. The slower TPS gives me more time to see the F2L pairs when doing cross in other colours.


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## sqAree (Apr 21, 2017)

JohnnyReggae said:


> As a side note, I find that doing the cross the most awkward part of the OH solve. It's the needing to turn a number of different faces, sometimes all of them which really gets to me and can easily take a good few seconds longer to do. Has anyone felt the same, and have you managed to change that ?



I think building the cross on R is the way to go for OH. In most cases it will be at most one x rotation and only RUD. Finish with a z rotation in the end which is the easiest rotation to perform OH.
I don't generally do this because I'm bad at planning my whole cross / looking ahead to my first pair so I am confused after finishing the cross resulting in a huge pause.

Building the cross on bottom my strategy is to do the double side face moves (F2, R2, B2, L2) on L and R and use thumb fingertricks for single side face moves (like F or F'), because F2 is awkward. Of course sometimes more rotations are required (for example if your cross is something like R2 B2 L2 F2 but that happens rarely).

Hope that helps.


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## h2f (Apr 21, 2017)

sqAree said:


> Hope that helps.



Yes.


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## Logiqx (Apr 22, 2017)

A nice video for @Shaky Hands and any other big cube enthusiasts:


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## pglewis (Apr 22, 2017)

Just did a random timed EO+CFOP solve with unlimited inspection for the heck of it, 30.77. That would be a decent cold-solve time for me with straight CFOP.


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## phreaker (Apr 23, 2017)

Updates:

OH PB: 39.57. Sadly I'm not sure that I'm truly sub-60 yet. Need to work on my consistency.

Comp leadup updates:

3BLD: I need to work on memo some this weekend... next weekend is comp. 15m cumulative cufoff... If I can get 1-2 successes... that'd be great.
OH cutoff: 45s soft / forget the hard. I have a shot at the soft... but I really need some luck and practice.
3x3 2H: Honestly, I'm slower 2H right now than OH. So I may be stuck doing it OH. That's life.
4x4: I'll drop. I can't get to the hard cut. It is 2m or 3m.. I'm at ~5m. Really.. I need more practice. I can solve 4x4, and enjoy it... but no way I'm making up that much time.


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## pglewis (Apr 23, 2017)

phreaker said:


> 4x4: I'll drop. I can't get to the hard cut. It is 2m or 3m.. I'm at ~5m. Really.. I need more practice. I can solve 4x4, and enjoy it... but no way I'm making up that much time.



Are you using straight reduction? Yau or Hoya?


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## phreaker (Apr 23, 2017)

pglewis said:


> Are you using straight reduction? Yau or Hoya?



Yau.

My times are coming down.. but not enough that I'm making that cut in a week . Keep in mind my 3x3 OH times.


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## One Wheel (Apr 23, 2017)

phreaker said:


> Yau.
> 
> My times are coming down.. but not enough that I'm making that cut in a week . Keep in mind my 3x3 OH times.



I've or more work into 4x4 and you've put more into OH, but I run ~34 2H, one solve it of 5 sub-1:00 OH, and 1:45-1:50 on 4x4. You might not be as far off as you think.


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## phreaker (Apr 23, 2017)

One Wheel said:


> I've or more work into 4x4 and you've put more into OH, but I run ~34 2H, one solve it of 5 sub-1:00 OH, and 1:45-1:50 on 4x4. You might not be as far off as you think.



Both. My 4x4 is still REALLY improving quickly. And my OH times are within ~2-3s of what I'd expect 2H.

I've considered taking up more 2H just to enable me to do longer practice sessions... but really.. .2H 3x3 never captured me. OH did.


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## pglewis (Apr 23, 2017)

phreaker said:


> Yau.
> 
> My times are coming down.. but not enough that I'm making that cut in a week . Keep in mind my 3x3 OH times.



Yeah, if you're anything like me even if I found a miracle to shave that much time quickly I wouldn't have the confidence under me for comp conditions. If ya only had a couple more weeks! 

Also a Yau user here, some focused half-centers practice has got me peaking right around 2m for my better solves now. Six weeks 'til comp so should be fun to see if I can luck into snagging an official average with those same cuts. 

Good luck next weekend!


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## phreaker (Apr 23, 2017)

pglewis said:


> Yeah, if you're anything like me even if I found a miracle to shave that much time quickly I wouldn't have the confidence under me for comp conditions. If ya only had a couple more weeks!
> 
> Also a Yau user here, some focused half-centers practice has got me peaking right around 2m for my better solves now. Six weeks 'til comp so should be fun to see if I can luck into snagging an official average with those same cuts.
> 
> Good luck next weekend!



Ironically, I just went and did a small set of 2H solves... set my PB at 37.91. I can tell my times are set to drop like a rock. I just need more consistency. It may be time for 2H practice mainly so I can do more solves... OH really limits how many solves a day you can do. 

Thanks... 3BLD is the one I'm worried about. The other two.. will do what they do.


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## JanW (Apr 23, 2017)

I'm on fire today! Right after getting my first sub-20 Ao12 earlier this week, I cut off one more second for a sub-19:

Generated By csTimer on 2017-4-23
avg of 12: 18.77

Time List:
1. (15.17) R' D2 B2 D2 L2 U2 F L2 F L2 U2 F' D' B L D2 U' L' B' D2 B2
2. 20.35 U F' R D B' L' F' L B L U' R2 U2 B2 L2 B2 R2 U' B2 U'
3. 17.78 R D2 L' F2 L2 D2 R B2 L' F2 R' U' F' D L D2 L' U' L2 F
4. 16.78 F2 L2 D2 U B2 U L2 B2 R2 B2 U B L B' L2 U F R B F'
5. 20.75 R2 U' L2 B2 L2 R2 U' B2 U' F' L' F2 D' U2 F' L R F' U
6. 17.88 R L' B' U' L' D' F' D2 B U B2 D' B2 R2 D' B2 U F2 U' R2
7. 16.28 F' R D L' D2 F2 R2 D U2 F' R2 F' R2 B' U2 F2 L2 B2 U
8. (23.87) F2 R2 F' L2 F2 R2 U2 F R2 F2 L U R' B' F' L' D R2 B F'
9. 18.08 R2 B2 L F2 L' B2 F2 U2 R D2 R' D B' L' R' U L' D' R2 B
10. 21.80 D2 U2 R2 B D2 U2 L2 B2 U2 B L B R B D' B2 L U F' D F'
11. 18.88 U2 B' L2 F D2 B' F2 R2 U2 B2 D2 L B' D2 U' R F U' R B2 L2
12. 19.12 D2 B' D2 F R2 F' L2 D2 F2 L2 R2 D' B' D2 F' R2 U2 R' U2 F'

Solves 3-7 make up a new Ao5 pb, improving on old Ao5 by 0.7 seconds. It's been quite a while since I improved that average. 

First solve above is probably my new full-step pb. It wasn't one of the easiest OLLs, combined with T perm. A new pb single can come any day now, as long as I get a skip on the right solve. Oh, and also, improved Ao100 pb to 21.35.


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## JohnnyReggae (Apr 23, 2017)

mafergut said:


> @JohnnyReggae yeah, I find the cross the most awkward part of the solve in OH too. I try to grab the cube in ways that can at least simplify frist two or three edges, which can be from one side of even from the top but at times I lose track of my orientation for a split second or even fumble the cube.
> ... I'm much closer to full CN than in 2H, though. The slower TPS gives me more time to see the F2L pairs when doing cross in other colours.


With OH I also struggle with orientation after doing the cross because of all the z, x, and y rotations happening, but I am getting better and not wasting time with carrying on. The look ahead practice I've been putting in on 2H has also been paying off with OH.

Well done on the CN !!  I'm actually quite envious ... and I know I can do it, I just need to put the time in. My biggest issue is the perceived step backwards that needs to be taken in order to become CN. I'm also putting in a lot of concerted effort with look ahead atm that I don't want to loose that momentum as my times have been improving quite nicely of late.



sqAree said:


> I think building the cross on R is the way to go for OH. In most cases it will be at most one x rotation and only RUD. Finish with a z rotation in the end which is the easiest rotation to perform OH.
> I don't generally do this because I'm bad at planning my whole cross / looking ahead to my first pair so I am confused after finishing the cross resulting in a huge pause.
> 
> Building the cross on bottom my strategy is to do the double side face moves (F2, R2, B2, L2) on L and R and use thumb fingertricks for single side face moves (like F or F'), because F2 is awkward. Of course sometimes more rotations are required (for example if your cross is something like R2 B2 L2 F2 but that happens rarely).
> ...


Doing the cross on R sounds like a good idea. I think I'll give it a go and see how it works out. I must say with OH I have been using F moves with my thumb quite successfully and I've even started doing U moves with my thumb when doing half-rotations to free up my index and pinkie finger for other moves.

I also need to work on my cross to f2l transitions as I also still pause there, even with 2H which is definitely causing a second or 2 delay.


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## Shaky Hands (Apr 23, 2017)

Logiqx said:


> A nice video for @Shaky Hands and any other big cube enthusiasts:



Thanks for sharing Mike.


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## phreaker (Apr 23, 2017)

JohnnyReggae said:


> With OH I also struggle with orientation after doing the cross because of all the z, x, and y rotations happening, but I am getting better and not wasting time with carrying on. The look ahead practice I've been putting in on 2H has also been paying off with OH.
> 
> Doing the cross on R sounds like a good idea. I think I'll give it a go and see how it works out. I must say with OH I have been using F moves with my thumb quite successfully and I've even started doing U moves with my thumb when doing half-rotations to free up my index and pinkie finger for other moves.
> 
> I also need to work on my cross to f2l transitions as I also still pause there, even with 2H which is definitely causing a second or 2 delay.



With EOLine I have the same type of issues. Usually I can get off with one rotation, in my line. (It may be a y2 in my case... but that's not unexpected.)

Also with practice you should be able to do any of the moves, one flick... B is awkward as all getout, it is basically an x rotation+U but possible  I'll scramble a cube OH time to time, when practicing OH.


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## h2f (Apr 23, 2017)

JanW said:


> I'm on fire today! Right after getting my first sub-20 Ao12 earlier this week, I cut off one more second for a sub-19:



Awsome, @JanW.


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## pglewis (Apr 23, 2017)

Almost a week with the GTS2 stickerless and it's hard to put down. 4x4 is getting attention and I'm doing a lot of untimed solves, splitting the remaining time with EO practice on 3x3 so I haven't really sat down with a longer timed session in anger with it yet... but so far I can't really find a flaw. The feel is very similar to the MF3RS to me but without any of the minor catching that keeps the MF3RS a fun cube that I wouldn't use for official attempts. It's not a particularly quiet cube and some people probably won't like the hollow feel but the turning is practically perfect for my turning style at the moment. It has exceeded my expectations.


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## JohnnyReggae (Apr 24, 2017)

phreaker said:


> I'll scramble a cube OH time to time, when practicing OH.


I find myself doing this quite regularly and it seems to flow quite nicely. It is a good way to practice having to turn all the faces.


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## teacher77 (Apr 24, 2017)

JanW said:


> Another thing to keep in mind regarding improving singles vs improving averages is that learning new techniques is much more likely to improve your averages. Since my PB single I've learned full OLL and greatly improved recognition of the more difficult PLLs, which has no effect on a single solve with sune and PLL skip.



Very good point, thanks. But still, if PBs don't go down, averages will eventually stall. That was my point.

I must say I did NOT learn anything new since january, when I finished learning full PLL. I might have learned one or two OLLs (I know 12 of them only) and I try to do the cross on the bottom when it's really easy (maybe 5% of the time), but that's about it for "new" stuff.



JanW said:


> I copied my latest Ao1000 (22.50) into excel for some stats.



How do you do that ? What software are you using ?



JanW said:


> I remember saying around Christmas that the next milestone would be making sub-20s more frequent than sup-30s. I think I can safely say now that I've achieved that.  Next step, make those sub-20s more frequent than sup-25s.
> 
> Even if it feels like I haven't improved much the past few months, these stats show me that I get sub-20s twice as often as at the start of the year. That's definitely an improvement! Not to mention that Ao1000 also is almost 2 seconds faster than it was at the end of last year.



Your progress is amazing ! All those sub-20's ! I get sub-20's only about 2-3% of the time.

I feel like my average improvement follows yours (a few months behind) though : since Christmas, my own averages went down by about 2.5 seconds (my "best mo10 of the day" went from about 27.5 to about 25 sec). I did my very first sub-25 mo10 mid-febuary and it remained an outlier for more than a month. But now I manage to get a sub-25 mo10 about every other day. (I might make more attempts per day, though)


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## JanW (Apr 24, 2017)

teacher77 said:


> How do you do that ? What software are you using ?


I use csTimer. Just click on Ao1000 and copy paste. It has some export function also, but that did not work for me.





teacher77 said:


> Your progress is amazing ! All those sub-20's ! I get sub-20's only about 2-3% of the time.
> 
> I feel like my average improvement follows yours (a few months behind) though : since Christmas, my own averages went down by about 2.5 seconds (my "best mo10 of the day" went from about 27.5 to about 25 sec). I did my very first sub-25 mo10 mid-febuary and it remained an outlier for more than a month. But now I manage to get a sub-25 mo10 about every other day. (I might make more attempts per day, though)


Thanks! I think most of my improvement lately is thanks to getting more comfortable with OLL. And probably thanks to a whole lot of solving, which slowly but surely leads to better look ahead.

But you are still doing cross on top while aiming for sub-25???  I'd strongly recommend you start doing cross on bottom only. It really isn't that difficult, if you are willing to take a small hit to your times for a while. Probably gets harder to switch the longer you wait, though.


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## mafergut (Apr 24, 2017)

Mixed bag of a lot of stuff that has been posted these last days:
- Interesting 7x7 centers video, thanks for sharing. Feliks makes it feel so easy... it's not that way when I'm on my own with a big cube like a 6x6 or 7x7. Sorry that he lost the WR 3x3 Average, by the way. Impressive average by Max Park!
- Nice average @JanW !!! You are really making progress. Well done!
- Interesting stuff about OH. I'm trying to do cross on right when I can't find anything better for the specific case and it is not bad but it's still my worst part of the OH solve by far. I have broken again all my OH PBs. Ao50 is now down to 38.56 and Ao100 down to 39.24. Slight improvement also on Ao5 and 12. Still lots of room for improvement but happy with my Yan3 for OH.
- @pglewis You make my wait for the GTS2 almost unbearable  It should arrive this week or next latest.
- @teacher77 I agree with @JanW that you should just stop whatever you're doing and start practising cross on bottom exclusively. I would take the opportunity to become full color neutral as well. Full OLL can certainly wait until you can do cross on bottom.


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## pglewis (Apr 24, 2017)

@teacher77: It's definitely worth the effort to get used to cross on the bottom. Most tutorials that hammer this point say the main reason is to cut out the time of the cube rotation, but I think that's a much smaller reason than lookahead into F2L. It's very easy to justify (probably rightly) that the time of the rotation isn't a big factor on your times until you're sub 20 or even sub 15. But cross on the bottom means you'll get a good look at more 2nd layer edges that can't hide there. It's surprisingly easy to adapt, I honestly find it trickier if I try to solve cross on the top now.


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## Fyzzna (Apr 24, 2017)

Got some new PBs 

ao5: 23.74, ao12: 24.95, ao50: 26.86

This might be a good time to start learning CMLL, though it does look like a lot of work to get all those algs down.


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## chtiger (Apr 24, 2017)

Some more oldie comp results --
http://cubecomps.com/live.php?cid=2137&compid=15

In 2x2, 3x3, and skewb, every solve was below average, saving my good solves for clock I guess. First skewb solve would have been PB but was a +2. Finally got a good round of clock, not quite sub-10 avg, but got a sub-8 single. Square-1 probably would have been a PB avg if I had 2 parities instead of 3. Second round of clock got a little bit closer to sub-10.

2x2 - 7.82, 9.23, 6.62, 7.51, 9.37 *= *8.19 
3x3 - 24.31, 25.66, 23.25, 24.53, 24.38 = 24.41
skewb - 10.56, 11.72, 15.04, 18.50, 15.45 *= *14.07
clock 1st rd - 10.09, 9.20, DNF, 7.97, 10.97 = 10.09 
clock 2nd rd - 9.70, 9.58, DNF, 10.92, 8.85 = 10.07
square1 - 41.93, 41.97, 36.15, 47.99, 44.98 *= *42.96

More to come next week, hopefully a 4BLD success.


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## mark49152 (Apr 25, 2017)

Nice clock results there @chtiger.

I've been doing some 3x3 practice recently, my first serious 3x3 practice for almost 2 years. Just set my first 3x3 PBs since summer 2015, with a 17.58 ao100, 17.09 ao50 and 16.12 ao12. 

What's strange is I feel much faster than I was, but my times say only slightly


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## teacher77 (Apr 25, 2017)

JanW said:


> I use csTimer. Just click on Ao1000 and copy paste. It has some export function also, but that did not work for me.



You need to keep all your solves in the same session ? I tend to delete them after each session (and store my best single and my best mo10 of the day in an Excel file).




JanW said:


> Thanks! I think most of my improvement lately is thanks to getting more comfortable with OLL. And probably thanks to a whole lot of solving, which slowly but surely leads to better look ahead.
> 
> But you are still doing cross on top while aiming for sub-25???  I'd strongly recommend you start doing cross on bottom only. It really isn't that difficult, if you are willing to take a small hit to your times for a while. Probably gets harder to switch the longer you wait, though.



I know for the cross. As I said, I started trying to solve with cross on bottom whenever I see it as an easy cross. I don't find it easy at all because most of the time I only plan 3 edges and use look ahead to plug in the 4th one just in time. With cross on bottom, you have to plan all 4 edges each and every time.

How long did it take you to learn full OLL ?


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## xyzzy (Apr 25, 2017)

teacher77 said:


> I don't find it easy at all because most of the time I only plan 3 edges and use look ahead to plug in the 4th one just in time. With cross on bottom, you have to plan all 4 edges each and every time.



You don't really need to do that; it's the same wherever you solve your cross. Just track where the missing edge in your partial cross is, and insert the last edge there once you're done with 3/4 of the cross.

Then again, I solve with cross on left (F2L on left, technically, since I use freestyle F2L) because that's just how I learnt it years back and the habit stuck. If you practise too much with cross anywhere other than bottom, switching to cross on bottom is going to be very difficult. Just like CN, it's better to switch early.


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## JohnnyReggae (Apr 25, 2017)

teacher77 said:


> How long did it take you to learn full OLL ?


I took around 6 months to learn full OLL, that is from when I decided that I would do it. Worked through a couple algs at a time. I went with similar shapes as then I only had to focus on those shapes when solving to try remember algs.


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## JanW (Apr 25, 2017)

teacher77 said:


> You need to keep all your solves in the same session ? I tend to delete them after each session (and store my best single and my best mo10 of the day in an Excel file).


Yes, all in one session. I started a new session at the start of this year, so that would be my second 3x3 session in csTimer. Btw. Why are you recording obscure mo10 records? Ao12 is the standard and what all solving apps give you automatically. It should be much easier to track, and it is more comparable to times posted by other cubers here.


teacher77 said:


> I know for the cross. As I said, I started trying to solve with cross on bottom whenever I see it as an easy cross. I don't find it easy at all because most of the time I only plan 3 edges and use look ahead to plug in the 4th one just in time. With cross on bottom, you have to plan all 4 edges each and every time.


The thing is, looking at solved pieces while executing the cross is always a waste of time. Whatever time you spend doing that should be spent solving the remaining cross pieces and looking forward into F2L (or looking for the last cross piece, if that wasn't already planned). As long as you keep the cross on top, you allow yourself to look at the already solved pieces. And in particular, you are looking at the bottom face of the already solved pieces, which contain no meaningful information. Even with cross on bottom, if I need to double check where the last cross piece was supposed to go, I can find out without looking at the bottom. Let's say I know I have a solved cross piece on the front, then I can tell where the last cross piece is supposed to go in relation to that. You need to learn to look at the cross in some similar manner, and that won't happen as long as you allow yourself to avoid that kind of thinking by solving it on top.


teacher77 said:


> How long did it take you to learn full OLL ?


Do be totally honest, I'm still 4 dot cases short... never got around to learning all of those. But for the rest, I think I learned the algs in about 6-8 weeks, then it still took a couple of months to become more fluent with the algs and stop mixing up the cases (which still sometimes happens). Before the start of those 6-8 weeks I already knew and had used around 20 of them, mainly as I earlier did CPEOLL and some were familiar from BLD.


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## teacher77 (Apr 26, 2017)

Amazing cubing evening today !

New PB for mo5 : 22.12 sec (previous was 23.46 so this is a huge drop)

I did two sub-19 singles : one at 17.83 and one at 18.12, which are, respectively, my 2nd and 4th best singles ever. This is amazing because my 17.69 PB is only 2 weeks old. ...meaning that the 17.69 outlier is already threatened.

I almost did a sub-24 mo10 (my PB is 24.36) but I screwed it up because of a 37 sec catastrophy. So it ended up 25.03... But my Ao10 (same series but with best and worse outliers removed) is 24.43 sec.

And the worse is... I had 3 beers with a friend tonight and just felt like cubing a little before going to bed ! So I did all this with slightly impaired reflexes.


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## teacher77 (Apr 26, 2017)

JanW said:


> Yes, all in one session. I started a new session at the start of this year, so that would be my second 3x3 session in csTimer. Btw. Why are you recording obscure mo10 records? Ao12 is the standard and what all solving apps give you automatically. It should be much easier to track, and it is more comparable to times posted by other cubers here.



To be exact, I record my best mo10+ of the day. Sometimes it's an mo10 but other times it's an mo14 or whatever was lower than each of the mo10 therein.

I know it's different than the other cubers, but having started my records that way, I want to keep it comparable to my previous records.

Perhaps I should start recording both and eventually drop the mo10.



JanW said:


> The thing is, looking at solved pieces while executing the cross is always a waste of time.



Well not if you doubt yourself and feel that you need to check that they're all in the right place...

But I remember feeling the same way about F2L when I switched from a beginners LBL method.




JanW said:


> Do be totally honest, I'm still 4 dot cases short... never got around to learning all of those. But for the rest, I think I learned the algs in about 6-8 weeks, then it still took a couple of months to become more fluent with the algs and stop mixing up the cases (which still sometimes happens). Before the start of those 6-8 weeks I already knew and had used around 20 of them, mainly as I earlier did CPEOLL and some were familiar from BLD.



By how much did you cut your times when you switched from 2-look OLL to full OLL ?

I dunno what CPEOLL or BLD is as I only use standard CFOP. What's your advice on that : is it usefull to try new methods if I plan on sticking to CFOP in the end ?


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## mitja (Apr 26, 2017)

teacher77 said:


> How long did it take you to learn full OLL ?


It took me about a month to learn algs, but more then a month to recognize the correct case. I think that's more difficult than learning the algs. My story is a bit strange. I learned F2L as a child in 1980-81 from some Serbian science magazine. I was slower with it compared to LBL, so I dropped it and 2 years ago I learned it again. I also new lots of OLL and PLLs back then, just needed to relearn them.
I learned full OLL a bit early, when I was 40-45 average. I didn't need it yet, just for fun. I started with the dot cases that seemed most difficult so everything after those would be easy. I would recommend to aproach the learning by putting all "sub" algs into muscle memory first. You have already met with most of them through PLL:
RUR'U'
URU'R'
R' F R F'
R U R' U
r U R' U
R U' R' F'
R U2 R'
The algs are just combinations of these and some setup moves in between.
Next, I wouldn't learn from videos. Just check all the pdfs and websites on forum go through algdb.net cases to find the one you like. It is easier to say than do, but practise helps. If you learn by video you try to memorise by other pearson approach. I believe we have different approach to memorise the 3D petterns. It is usefull to learn fingertricks or simply to see the tutorial explantion from a video, but some things are better in written.
And don't forget: full olls will give you just a second or two, but you learn something new with each one of them.


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## h2f (Apr 26, 2017)

I got Wuque and CangFeng today - I bought them from Polish Champion in 4x4: they are setup and broken in very well. Both are awsome.


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## newtonbase (Apr 26, 2017)

Blinders. I'm still working on upgrading from OP/M2 to comms and I need advice on dealing with parity. I'm thinking of switching UB and UL in edges memo and solving the last corner with the OP Y Perm. 
Is this the easiest way of doing it and are there any complications with switching pieces in memo? 
Ta


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## mark49152 (Apr 27, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> Blinders. I'm still working on upgrading from OP/M2 to comms and I need advice on dealing with parity. I'm thinking of switching UB and UL in edges memo and solving the last corner with the OP Y Perm.
> Is this the easiest way of doing it and are there any complications with switching pieces in memo?
> Ta


It's more complicated in that it's another opportunity to make mistakes 

Are you using edge comms? If using M2, the [D' L2 D: M2] way of swapping UB and UL is probably faster than extra thinking during memo


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## Lazy Einstein (Apr 27, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> Blinders. I'm still working on upgrading from OP/M2 to comms and I need advice on dealing with parity. I'm thinking of switching UB and UL in edges memo and solving the last corner with the OP Y Perm.
> Is this the easiest way of doing it and are there any complications with switching pieces in memo?
> Ta



I recommend swapping. It is so easy to do.


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## newtonbase (Apr 27, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> It's more complicated in that it's another opportunity to make mistakes
> 
> Are you using edge comms? If using M2, the [D' L2 D: M2] way of swapping UB and UL is probably faster than extra thinking during memo


I was going to continue with M2 but edge comms are far easier than corners so I'm learning it all together. At the moment I'm using the M2/OP method for the odd pieces.


Lazy Einstein said:


> I recommend swapping. It is so easy to do.


I'll practice this for now. I don't have another comp until July so I've nothing to lose but I doubt I'll be using comms in anger by then.


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## h2f (Apr 27, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> Blinders. I'm still working on upgrading from OP/M2 to comms and I need advice on dealing with parity. I'm thinking of switching UB and UL in edges memo and solving the last corner with the OP Y Perm.
> Is this the easiest way of doing it and are there any complications with switching pieces in memo?
> Ta



Im solving 3bld in other way than you - corneres first next edges - so my way might not help. I swap UBL and UBR and make an alg based on Jperm which switch UBL and UBR and brings DF to UB or BU. In case of BU it's another alg but based on Jperm. I've learnt it from Diego Meneghetti. In execution this means: last corner I do adding UBR and making 3cycle. After edges I do last edge and next M2 (UB to DF). Next alg. Often last target is UB/BU because I make cycle breakes taking UB so I do not need to make last 3cycle for edges.


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## mark49152 (Apr 27, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> I was going to continue with M2 but edge comms are far easier than corners so I'm learning it all together. At the moment I'm using the M2/OP method for the odd pieces.


What are your splits for memo, edges exec and corners exec? What memo approach are you using and what are your rough splits for that?


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## newtonbase (Apr 27, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> What are your splits for memo, edges exec and corners exec? What memo approach are you using and what are your rough splits for that?


I'm a disaster when it comes to timing splits. I simply can't remember to hit the button after memo (sometimes I forget to time my solves at all). I use images for corners then audio edges and solve edges then corners. I'm sure that the edge memo is much faster than corners and I hardly need to review it. Once I'm quick at corner execution I may go full audio.


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## mark49152 (Apr 27, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> I'm a disaster when it comes to timing splits. I simply can't remember to hit the button after memo (sometimes I forget to time my solves at all). I use images for corners then audio edges and solve edges then corners. I'm sure that the edge memo is much faster than corners and I hardly need to review it. Once I'm quick at corner execution I may go full audio.


Splits are helpful for knowing your weaknesses and reasoning what are the best things to invest effort in, assuming you're looking for the best return on your time.

For example, it might take 2 years of practice with edge comms to save average 5 seconds off your execution compared to advanced M2. Whereas your memo might be over a minute and ripe for saving 10 seconds with a week or two of pushing it.


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## newtonbase (Apr 27, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> Splits are helpful for knowing your weaknesses and reasoning what are the best things to invest effort in, assuming you're looking for the best return on your time.
> 
> For example, it might take 2 years of practice with edge comms to save average 5 seconds off your execution compared to advanced M2. Whereas your memo might be over a minute and ripe for saving 10 seconds with a week or two of pushing it.


I agree. I'm looking long term. I doubt I'll save much at all with edge comms as I already know many of the tricky cases. Corner comms will are essential if I want to get closer to a minute due to my poor TPS but memo is definitely where the biggest savings are and I'm working on that too but I like to mix up my practice.


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## mark49152 (Apr 27, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> I agree. I'm looking long term. I doubt I'll save much at all with edge comms as I already know many of the tricky cases. Corner comms will are essential if I want to get closer to a minute due to my poor TPS but memo is definitely where the biggest savings are and I'm working on that too but I like to mix up my practice.


Yeah my comments are based on an assumption that the aim is most rapid improvement and PBs, but doing things just for fun will always trump that. There are trade offs involved too - like I agree that in the long run edge comms are necessary to get super fast and the earlier you start the earlier you get there, but on the other hand they will make you slower in the short to medium term.

It has taken me about a year to get significantly faster with corner comms than I was with OP, and they have a way bigger move advantage compared to edge comms. Maybe I just don't practise enough though


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## newtonbase (Apr 27, 2017)

Yes. M2 is going to be hard to beat but I enjoy figuring out edge comms. Corners are a bit frustrating but with a two thirds cut in moves it's got to happen. 
Knowing that I won't be competing in anything but blind for months gives me freedom to focus on it too.


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## Logiqx (Apr 27, 2017)

Finally... I've gotten a *sub-17 Ao100*. 

I rarely do big averages and normally when it's going well, I start to lose my concentration after 50 solves. This session was pretty consistent with no amazing singles or Ao5 / Ao12.



Spoiler



Title: 3x3x3 Cube
# of solving: 100
Std Dev: 1.145
Best of all: 13.052
Worst of all: 27.018
Average of all: 16.893
Best Avg of 5: 15.080
Best Avg of 12: 16.059
Best Avg of 50: 16.800
* Best Avg of 100: 16.893*
Best Avg of 25: 16.616



This average was during a two hour train journey from Leeds to Stevenage. There were a few interruptions and I wasn't doing my full TPS during PLL on every solve.

I blew this *amazing *scramble when the ticket inspector was passing through and I lost my focus, 4 move x-cross and the next two pairs clearly visible during inspection. I haven't seen such a good scramble during my last few thousand solves!

B' F' R B R' L2 D L' B' U' F R2 U R U' L' R U2 R' B' R' U' F L D'

In other news, one of the guys I've been teaching is now averaging sub-60.


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## h2f (Apr 27, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> I enjoy figuring out edge comms



Same me.


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## Shaky Hands (Apr 27, 2017)

Logiqx said:


> I blew this *amazing *scramble when the ticket inspector was passing through and I lost my focus, 4 move x-cross and the next two pairs clearly visible during inspection. I haven't seen such a good scramble during my last few thousand solves!
> 
> B' F' R B R' L2 D L' B' U' F R2 U R U' L' R U2 R' B' R' U' F L D'



That's a great scramble Mike. I don't time solves when I know it's a gifted scramble, but for me it was a triple X-cross in 8 moves leading to a 34-move solve, which I think would be a FMC PB for me too:

z2 y' // inspection
B' L2 U L2 U L' U B // triple X-cross
d L U2 L' d2 U' R' F R F' // 4th F2L pair and edge control
R U2 R' U' R U' R' // anti-Sune
y R' F R' B2 R F' R' B2 R2 // A-perm



Logiqx said:


> In other news, one of the guys I've been teaching is now averaging sub-60.



A friend I've been teaching got his first sub-60 single last night. There must be something in the air.


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## Logiqx (Apr 27, 2017)

Shaky Hands said:


> That's a great scramble Mike. I don't time solves when I know it's a gifted scramble, but for me it was a triple X-cross in 8 moves leading to a 34-move solve, which I think would be a FMC PB for me too:
> 
> z2 y' // inspection
> B' L2 U L2 U L' U B // triple X-cross
> ...



I reckon it's a 1 in 10,000 scramble.

Given it was a regular speed solve, I didn't try to plan a triple-X cross but after spotting the easy x-cross, I planned a double x-cross and failed to execute it properly through lack of concentration. Working out what had happened wasted a fair bit of time and it ended up being a sub-15 screw up.


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## pipkiksass (Apr 28, 2017)

I've been sucking at keeping up with this thread since I've been back at work and Tapatalk has been disabled! I've also been cubing a LOT less, but getting consistent sub-16 Ao5s and sub-17 Ao12s, so took the rare opportunity to do a big timed solve session today (134 solves), as I knew my long (50/100) averages were due for being smashed. Took a while to warm up, but once I got going I was flying!

Anyway, here's today's kaboom massive smashed averages. 

I'd only ever had 2 sub-15 Ao5s before, Ao5 PB was 14.90, now 14.66! (-.24)
I'd only ever had 2 sub-16 Ao12s before, Ao12 PB was 15.96, now 15.63! (-.33)
Ao50 was 17.06, now 16.66 (-.40)
Ao100 was 17.38, now 17.17 (-.21)

Ao100 was still dropping when I finished, but sadly I didn't have time for any more solves.

6 months ago (October 6th), when I returned to cubing, I did a baseline Ao50 @ 21.25. Happy with that progress!


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## Jason Green (Apr 28, 2017)

teacher77 said:


> I dunno what CPEOLL or BLD is as I only use standard CFOP. What's your advice on that : is it usefull to try new methods if I plan on sticking to CFOP in the end ?


BLD is blindfolded solving. I remember that took me a while to catch on.

CPEOLL is corner permutation edge orientation of last layer. So instead of OLL then PLL you can do the LL in a different order basically. They can be used as a variation to normal CFOP for certain cases. I'm no expert as I don't use them. I think corner orientation (COLL) is a more common thing to learn after full OLL. It depends on what motivates you and keeps you improving. I don't plan to learn any more subsets until I'm sub 15 probably, I still have plenty of room to improve with what I know, and I'd rather just work on that for now.


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## pglewis (Apr 28, 2017)

Jason Green said:


> I don't plan to learn any more subsets until I'm sub 15 probably, I still have plenty of room to improve with what I know, and I'd rather just work on that for now.



Here's my reasoning: I figure COLL is going to take me a while as the individual cases I'll be learning show up a lot less frequently than individual PLLs. So if I pick one or two cases at a time I can get a head-start without it having to interrupt other practice. I already have EO practice to interrupt my other practice 

Good to see ya around Jason, when's your next comp coming up again?


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## Jason Green (Apr 28, 2017)

pglewis said:


> Here's my reasoning: I figure COLL is going to take me a while as the individual cases I'll be learning show up a lot less frequently than individual PLLs. So if I pick one or two cases at a time I can get a head-start without it having to interrupt other practice. I already have EO practice to interrupt my other practice
> 
> Good to see ya around Jason, when's your next comp coming up again?


Saturday going to Houston tomorrow for it! Funny because my main goals are to qualify for 4x4 and OH at Nationals, I don't have much of a 3x3 goal. It's the first time I have cared about something besides 3x3 really. I have a good shot at qualifying we will see how the nerves play out, and if I can tell what color I'm staring at during edge pairing. 

PS - in case you want to see my mock trial from tonight.
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10158558028085425&id=894935424


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## JanW (Apr 28, 2017)

teacher77 said:


> By how much did you cut your times when you switched from 2-look OLL to full OLL ?


This is hard to define. I'm close to 5 seconds faster now than when I started learning OLL and times are steadily dropping. However, that's probably a few seconds faster thanks to better lookahead and faster F2L, and a couple from OLL. In any case, I'm very glad I did learn OLL. It's not that hard and a lot of the algs are really fast and short.


teacher77 said:


> I dunno what CPEOLL or BLD is as I only use standard CFOP. What's your advice on that : is it usefull to try new methods if I plan on sticking to CFOP in the end ?





Jason Green said:


> CPEOLL is corner permutation edge orientation of last layer. So instead of OLL then PLL you can do the LL in a different order basically. They can be used as a variation to normal CFOP for certain cases. I'm no expert as I don't use them. I think corner orientation (COLL) is a more common thing to learn after full OLL.


Yeah, CPEOLL permutes corners while orienting edges. I should add that I only did it because I worked out that system on my own before I found this forum and more info about cubing. CFOP is clearly superior and I recommend you stick with that.

COLL is interesting, but I think maybe mostly if you do ZZ or perhaps for one-handed solving. I've known and used all COLL algs for the L-case the last few months, but they come up so seldom that recalling the case still takes a lot of time.


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## muchacho (Apr 28, 2017)

JanW said:


> COLL is interesting, but I think maybe mostly if you do ZZ or perhaps for one-handed solving.


Also for big cubes... and for Roux too 

I'm learning the Antisune CMLL set, after that I'll only have Sune left 



Jason Green said:


> PS - in case you want to see my mock trial from tonight.
> https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10158558028085425&id=894935424


Right hand for OH? I approve


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## Logiqx (Apr 28, 2017)

JanW said:


> This is hard to define. I'm close to 5 seconds faster now than when I started learning OLL and times are steadily dropping. However, that's probably a few seconds faster thanks to better lookahead and faster F2L, and a couple from OLL. In any case, I'm very glad I did learn OLL. It's not that hard and a lot of the algs are really fast and short.
> 
> 
> Yeah, CPEOLL permutes corners while orienting edges. I should add that I only did it because I worked out that system on my own before I found this forum and more info about cubing. CFOP is clearly superior and I recommend you stick with that.
> ...



To be exact, each COLL case typically arises once every 324 solves in CFOP.

This changes to 2/81 when using something like Petrus or ZZ.


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## pglewis (Apr 28, 2017)

JanW said:


> COLL is interesting, but I think maybe mostly if you do ZZ or perhaps for one-handed solving.



Yeah, COLL is what initially got me exploring ZZ; last slot alg-sets aren't attractive to me but a 1:12 PLL skip still is. I think I'm hooked and going to be stubborn enough to stick with it. Figuring out EOLine fast enough is a challenge that could have easily made me ditch the idea by now but I had no clue I was going to like F2L with pre-oriented edges this much more. EO practice hasn't been as much drudgery is it could be because the payoff is so nice.


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## mafergut (Apr 29, 2017)

Hi guys, busy week and no Tapatalk equals no posts but I'm up to date with everything here!
COLL must mean *C*an't *O*blige myself to *L*earn it, *L*ol because... I've tried a couple times and failed to learn more than 3-4 algs. It was useful to change a couple OLLs I had for better ones, though 

Also, I don't want to spoil it by saying it but my 13 y/o son might have regained some interest in learning how to (speed?)solve. He was around sub-1min when he abandoned with a PB of 43 seconds. I'm sure he would be faster than me in 6 months if he put just a tiny bit of effort on it.

My practice time is quite reduced lately. I'm basically practising OH since last week. I keep getting more and more frequent sub-30s but my long average (around 700 solves since I started practising again) doesn't want to get below 40s yet.

Also, I discovered that a local Spanish store has started to make their own "pro" magnetic cubes. They only have stickered GTS (v1) and Valk for now. I hope they make some stickerless and I might consider buying a Valk or GTS2 from them. Similar price to TheCubicle but, I'm sure, much faster shipping  No sign of my order of magnets yet


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## phreaker (Apr 29, 2017)

Went to my 1st comp today. Alas, I am somewhat sick. (Stomach bug, of some form.)

2H: Met my goal, sub 1m,
OH: Didn't DNF against a 1:15 hard... a bit disappointed I didn't flash a sub 1 solve. I can do them. Overall, I didn't dnf against the 1:15 hard.... I'll take it. (With a 45s soft... I knew I wasn't likely to make it.)

But I could tell my concentration is way off. (Stomach pain is no good for focus, never mind feeling a bit weak due to hydration.)

I left before the BLD round based on that. I was shaky for BLD to start with... I don't think it was there today, I think some rest and going to a social event tonight if my body allows is smarter.

But at least... I can finally say "I'm sub 1, in comp."

Overall, had some fun.. but I expect I'd have more fun if I was feeling better.

Cube notes: People loved my custom GTS2 M. After the event, I tried it 2H again myself.. And I saw why. I need more practice, and probably to lighten up my turning style a bit. I used it for OH, but not 2H. (I was too nervous to use it, so I used a Valk M which has more assertive magnets and is a bit slower.)

Formula for the GTS2 M:

1xStickerless GTS2.
48x 5mmx1.5mm N50 ring magnets with a 1.5mm id. (I really liked the feel of these compared to any magnet I tried. I'm sold on the wider magnets giving a nicer feel.)
Blu-Tack to stick the magnets in.
30k on the core. (Had to redo the core this morning... ugh... couldn't find my 50k)
30k on the pieces, not much... just a bit. Work it in.
1 drop of DNM-37. (All that was over a similar lube job with 2x drops of DNM-37... both work...)
6xValk Springs.

The reason for Valk Springs in the GTS2 is it gets WAY fast if you back out the screws enough to make it full cutting. If you use Valk Springs, it slows the cube a bit, and really gives the cube a solid cutting feel. A strong upgrade, for $1.

My Valk M was already picked to be my BLD main on the day, because my Gans AIR UM had too many sticker chips.. and I wasn't in the mood to resticker.  Honestly.. I'm becoming less and less and less of a fan of stickered cubes. I love my Gans AIR UM for BLD.. but it would have taken a sticker job to make it legal. :/.

Got to try out the 6x6 and 7x7 Qiyi cubes... not ready to get them yet... want to learn 5x5 fully first... then maybe move up to 6x6.  I didn't like them as much as I'd like... I think the 6x6 and higher hardware has a generation or two before it is perfected like the 4x4 and 5x5 is starting to be.


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## newtonbase (Apr 29, 2017)

phreaker said:


> Went to my 1st comp today. Alas, I am somewhat sick. (Stomach bug, of some form.)
> 
> 2H: Met my goal, sub 1m,
> OH: Didn't DNF against a 1:15 hard... a bit disappointed I didn't flash a sub 1 solve. I can do them. Overall, I didn't dnf against the 1:15 hard.... I'll take it. (With a 45s soft... I knew I wasn't likely to make it.)
> ...


Well done hitting your goal. That's an achievable target for next time. 
Your cube sounds nice. I'll bet those ring magnets work well with blu tak.


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## Jason Green (Apr 29, 2017)

muchacho said:


> Also for big cubes... and for Roux too
> 
> I'm learning the Antisune CMLL set, after that I'll only have Sune left
> 
> ...


It's actually left hand, the camera is backward for whatever reason. Bad 3*3 round one today at comp, too early for me! But due to large field I made round two!! That's one of my main cubing goals so very happy with that. 4*4 I qualified for Nationals so I'm happy with that too. OH still to come. 

http://m.cubecomps.com/competitions/2071/events


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## phreaker (Apr 29, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> Well done hitting your goal. That's an achievable target for next time.
> Your cube sounds nice. I'll bet those ring magnets work well with blu tak.



I really wanted a BLD success. But... Today isn't that day. I suspect I ate something yesterday that really disagreed with me.

Actually, blu-tack likely works about 10x better than people think. I've dropped my Valk M onto concrete... nothing came loose. (And that cube's been together a few months now!)

I know superglue is cool.. but ya know... For those of us who aren't AS good at positioning magnets. Blu-tack FTW. When I did my GTS2, I had to redo most of the pieces, due to some minor alignment issues. If I did them with glue I'd have no chance to fix it. Blu-tack... go in, pull out the magnet, clean up the blu-tack, and retry.

For first times with a given cube type.. or those of us who may not be AS good at aligning stuff.. it makes getting a "perfect" result real possible. 

(Also if I carry some, along with some magnets, I can fix any cube, and be ready to go again in ~3-4m. No need to dry. Which if you are impatient... rocks  )


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## mark49152 (Apr 29, 2017)

Nice job on the comp achievements @Jason Green and @phreaker!


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## Jason Green (Apr 29, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> Nice job on the comp achievements @Jason Green and @phreaker!


Thanks! Just watched Jeff Park from Dallas set North American record for 3 Bld single and average!! Second in the world single of 19 something. His dad is a fellow older cuber but is not on here as far as I know.


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## mark49152 (Apr 30, 2017)

Jason Green said:


> Thanks! Just watched Jeff Park from Dallas set North American record for 3 Bld single and average!! Second in the world single of 19 something. His dad is a fellow older cuber but is not on here as far as I know.


I never heard of Jeff so just looked up his profile. That is one heck of a big improvement. I wonder how he's been practising?


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## h2f (Apr 30, 2017)

Good job on @Jason Green and @phreaker!

@phreaker - about eating... I've noticed I really dont help me to eat dinner during comp. I've never successed in 3bld after a dinner.


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## newtonbase (Apr 30, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> I never heard of Jeff so just looked up his profile. That is one heck of a big improvement. I wonder how he's been practising?


He says he's still not learned full comms. These were massive overall PBs but with 8s memo on 2 of the solves I'm sure there will be more to come. 


h2f said:


> Good job on @Jason Green and @phreaker!
> 
> @phreaker - about eating... I've noticed I really dont help me to eat dinner during comp. I've never successed in 3bld after a dinner.


Food fogs my brain. I do most of my blind practice at lunchtime and I go downhill as soon as I start eating.


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## mafergut (Apr 30, 2017)

Slow but steady improvement at OH. Running session reached 800 solves and exactly 40.00 mean.
PBs improved to 32.92 Ao5, 35.01 Ao12, 37.62 Ao50 and 38.02 Ao100. More than 5 seconds of improvement on my Ao100 since I had last seriously practised OH (last summer).

Time to stop spamming timed solves and learn some extra OLLs?


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## Lid (Apr 30, 2017)

Random OH a12 PB today: 23.354 (= -0.081)

The 17.45 was full step 



Spoiler: Times & Scambles



Average of 12: 23.354
1. (17.450) F2 D' R2 U' L2 F2 D' B2 L' U2 B' D B' R2 D' L2 U L2
2. 22.621 B2 U2 B R2 D2 F2 D2 F' U2 F L2 R D B2 F2 D2 L' R2 B' R'
3. 23.191 R2 U L2 U' F2 D2 U L2 D2 F2 U2 L B' D B R2 D' F2 L' B U
4. (29.603) R2 B' D2 B' D2 B' D2 U2 F' D2 B R' U' L D B2 R D2 F' U F'
5. 21.443 D2 F' U2 D2 R' U' F2 B R' F R2 B2 L2 U R2 F2 U' F2 D B2
6. 24.354 B L2 F' R2 B2 L2 U2 L2 F' D2 F R' B' U2 L D2 B L D' L F
7. 29.117 F' R D2 L' D R2 U' B2 R F' L2 U2 F L2 D2 B' R2 D2 L2 B2
8. 23.422 U R D R2 U L U' F2 L' B' D2 L2 B L2 B' U2 L2 D2 R2 F
9. 21.748 U2 B2 R2 D2 R2 U' B2 U' B2 U L2 F L2 U' R U R' U2 B2 U
10. 21.805 D2 R2 B L2 B R2 F L2 F' R2 D2 R' B' L R D B' R2 D R F'
11. 25.083 D B2 F2 U F2 R2 D2 L2 U2 B2 U' F L' B' L2 U F L2 F' R D2
12. 20.754 L2 B' R2 F2 L2 R2 B' R2 F' U2 L2 D F' D' L' U2 B' D' L2 F R



Cube, Valk 3 stickerless.
Which leads me into my current mains list:
2: WeiPo
3: YueXiao
4: WuQue
5: YuXin
6: YuXin
7: AoFu, but planing to get a YuXin
Sq: QiYi
Px: MoYu M
Sk: QiYi
Mx: X-man
All stickerless
+ a Rubik's for Clock.

And I'm still too lazy to get into blind


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## mafergut (Apr 30, 2017)

@Lid, I would consider also Qiyi for 5x5 and specially if you're planning on buying a 7x7. Also, did you use the Valk just because? Or do you have a different main for 2H and OH? The Yuexiao is nice but unless you really have an issue with the smaller size for 2H, the Valk is even nicer IMHO. But I have a Valk3 and I'm using a Yan3 right now so...


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## Lid (Apr 30, 2017)

@mafergut, I have different mains for 2H & OH, just switched to the Valk (for OH) after many years with the LingYun. Will buy another Valk when I order the 7x7, already have the QiYi WuChuang 5x5 but it's no where near as good as my YuXin.


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## mafergut (Apr 30, 2017)

Lid said:


> @mafergut, I have different mains for 2H & OH, just switched to the Valk (for OH) after many years with the LingYun. Will buy another Valk when I order the 7x7, already have the QiYi WuChuang 5x5 but it's no where near as good as my YuXin.


Funny, in my case it's the other way around. I also have a Yuxin 5x5 but it's nowhere near as good as my WuShuang


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## phreaker (Apr 30, 2017)

h2f said:


> Good job on @Jason Green and @phreaker!
> 
> @phreaker - about eating... I've noticed I really dont help me to eat dinner during comp. I've never successed in 3bld after a dinner.



I think most of mine are after dinner. I need more practice. The memo is real demanding on my head though, but my M2 is getting faster, and faster... which means memo will get easier.

A good point about the times I put up... getting new PBs should be real possible .


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## pglewis (Apr 30, 2017)

Jason Green said:


> But due to large field I made round two!!



And what a round 2 you had! Official PRs crushed.


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## mafergut (Apr 30, 2017)

pglewis said:


> And what a round 2 you had! Official PRs crushed.


Oh boy!!! @Jason Green you are getting way too fast  Nice 4x4 too.


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## chtiger (May 1, 2017)

Quick comp rundown -- 4 BLD success, woohoo!! sub-10 clock avg and 7.58 single, woohoo!! MBLD fail. 5BLD, nah.
http://cubecomps.com/live.php?cid=2138&compid=5


Spoiler: the long boring details



I skipped day 1 popular events and just did day 2 oddball events.
MBLD -- hadn't done a mbld since my last official one in early December. Was just going to do 4, flipped a coin whether to add another, yes, did it again, yes, again, no. So 6 it was.
DNF 2/6, time unknown but slow. 2 cubes were off by 3 edges, 1 cube off by flipped edge, 1 cube scrambled.
Clock rd 1 -- I thought my PB single from last week might last forever, but it only lasted 1 week. Had a shot at sub-10 avg but messed up at end of last solve
10.38, 7.58, 10.91, 9.78, 12.68 *= 10.36*
Clock rd 2 -- this wasn't scheduled, so got an unexpected extra chance. The weird thing is while practicing before the round, I was doing horrible, messing up badly every time, probably not even sub-20 my last 5 practice solves. but then (aided by some nice scrambles)
9.55, 9.14, 8.11, 9.45, 9.80 = *9.38*
4BLD -- 1st solve I quit when I had an edge in my memo that I had already done earlier. 2nd solve I forgot an edge pair and guessed, but had other stuff messed up too. 3rd solve was extra safe, extra slow, extra mess-ups of center memo, but was successful.
DNF, DNF, 16:15.00 
skipped 5BLD, quit on a high note. There's another comp in June with 5BLD.


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## mark49152 (May 1, 2017)

Nice results @chtiger, and especially congrats on the 4BLD!


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## Michael919 (May 2, 2017)

Fun few days for this old, 40 second solver:

1) I successfully magnetized my Valk and my GTS2. I went back and forth whether I prefer M cubes over the "bumpless" feel of a non-M cube. That first hour was weird. Although subtle, the feel was different enough that it felt like a different puzzle, if you know what I mean. However, as time passed, it became harder and harder to not be convinced that M cubes are definitely an advantage. Consider me a convert. Next up, my Air, 356 and my Tanglong. N35's in them all using DMCuber's method. 

2) I started spending some serious time planning out my cross and I'm getting better at making bad edges good. Up until this weekend I'd plan out the first two, locate the next two and just wing them after the first two. Lazy. Now I'm planning out all four. I have a long way to go, but I'm progressing. 

3) Working on my f2l, I discovered how useful d moves can be to avoid rotations and to simplify some insertions. I can't believe I never thought of d moves before for f2l.


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## Jason Green (May 2, 2017)

pglewis said:


> And what a round 2 you had! Official PRs crushed.





mafergut said:


> Oh boy!!! @Jason Green you are getting way too fast  Nice 4x4 too.


Thanks guys! Round 2 was very nice, when I watch my round 1 video I can hear how tired I was. Haha. I'll edit together some videos later. I thought about streaming more but the connection in there was bad, and I was so busy on staff I never tried to hunt down the WiFi code.


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## h2f (May 2, 2017)

Very nice results @chtiger!

After buying CangFeng and Wuque I'm addicted to 4x4 again - I do practice it a lot first time for almost a year. Some nice singles and averages - looks like finally my 4x4 solves are constant - only few over 1:20 solves and Im closer to 1:10 ao100.


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## teacher77 (May 2, 2017)

Yet another PB ! Can't beleive this : I broke my mo10 = 24.13 s by half a second, down to 23.64 !

Here it is :

25.22
21.26
25.59
25.61
26.15 (worse)
23.98
22.64
22.10
23.12
20.68 (best)


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## teacher77 (May 2, 2017)

I've been cubing for exactly a year. The first time I solved a cube with no help/notes was on April 30th last year.

And look at this progress graph (pink = best single of the day, blue = best mo10+ of the day) :


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## JanW (May 3, 2017)

JanW said:


> I copied my latest Ao1000 (22.50) into excel for some stats. It includes:
> 
> 201 sub-20 solves
> 109 sub-19 solves
> ...


That was 1000 solves ago. For comparison, here are the stats for the next 1000 solves:

*Ao1000: 21.47 *(>1 second improvement!)

320 sub-20 solves (+119)
176 sub-19 solves (+67)
80 sub-18 solves (+35)
34 sub-17 solves (+15)
12 sub-16 solves (+8)
2 sub-15 solves (+1)

125 sup-25 solves (-95)
22 sup-30 solves (-18)

Progress has been so slow lately that it feels like it has stagnated. However, those numbers don't lie. There's definitely steady improvement! If I can keep this up, then I only need a couple of thousand solves more and maybe I can finally call myself a sub-20 solver.

A new single pb is definitely overdue. Yesterday I already got a sub-15 full-step solve (14.84, Sune + U-perm). With a good F2L, it would even be possible to break my 6 months old pb without any skips. With a good F2L and some skip, I bet a 12.xx is possible, if not even a sub-12.


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## Fyzzna (May 3, 2017)

I just got a 15.60 single! Sort of a stupid scramble though.

Scramble: U2 F2 U2 L2 F2 L2 U2 F2 U' B2 L2 F' D' F2 R' F' U' B' U' F' L2

Attempted a reconstruction:



Spoiler



z y // Inspection
R2 U M' r B' // FB
R' U' r U r' M r' U' r // SB
U2 U' R U R' U' R' F R F' // lucky CMLL (I still use 2L)
U2 U2 M' U' M' // 4a
U2 M' U2 M' U' M2 U' // 4b
M2 U2 M' U2 M // 4c

https://alg.cubing.net/?setup=U2_F2...2_M-_U2_M-_U-_M2_U-_//_4b
M2_U2_M-_U2_M_//_4c


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## muchacho (May 3, 2017)

Congrats!

I tried the scramble, and did almost the same solution... but I was a bit luckier 



Spoiler



11.376 (it would be PB by 0.5 seconds)
z y
R2 U M' L U' L'
U' Rw U Rw' M' Rw' U' Rw
U2 U' R U R' U' R' F R F'
M2 U M' M U2 M U2 M2

It could have been 30 STM, well 29, or 28 I guess.


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## phreaker (May 3, 2017)

Interesting thought... When I was at the competition. Parents seemed intimidated by the cube. (The irony of that isn't lost on me.)

A bit of me wondered is it worth one of us oldies putting together a 1 day "Learn how to cube" course. BYOC, opposite the competition.  I don't know if other people have done this. Is it a bad idea.. etc? Also I could see running 2-3 different classes over time... But that's me thinking aloud. I suspect people could be taught beginners in a day... Though I have no proof. I do think an older cuber, would do "better" here because well.. a parent may take instruction easier from a guy/gal who can drink . Ageism works both ways. :/ Once they go further and have some confidence, I suspect that they'll be able to use stuff like cubeskills etc. (Maybe this is something to do working with cubeskills.. who knows.)


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## mafergut (May 3, 2017)

JanW said:


> That was 1000 solves ago. For comparison, here are the stats for the next 1000 solves:
> *Ao1000: 21.47 *(>1 second improvement!) [...]
> 
> Progress has been so slow lately that it feels like it has stagnated. However, those numbers don't lie. There's definitely steady improvement! If I can keep this up, then I only need a couple of thousand solves more and maybe I can finally call myself a sub-20 solver.
> ...



Talking about slow improvement... Looking at my statistics of long averages, more or less two years ago (April 2015) I got my 1st ever sub-20 Ao100 (19.96). More or less 1 year later (May 2016) I set a new PB Ao100 of 18.48 so 1.5 seconds in one year, not bad.

One year later I did today my first timed Ao100 after 1 month where I have not timed my 3x3 solves and just did either slow / untimed solves or other events, mainly OH and 4x4 to 6x6. Got a new PB but the effect of the slow solving practice was not as noticeable as I expected, to be honest I have not done enough focused practice to improve efficiency, cross to f2l transition, etc. just lookahead. New PB Ao100 is 18.41, just 0.07. Ao50 improved a bit more, from 18.39 to 18.19 but even that is just 0.2 seconds in one year!!!  I'm either doing something wrong with my training or I'm getting old and my hands lose what my lookahead gains. Not going to get to sub-15 (not even close to sub-17) any time soon unless I change something, probably never tbh.

On a different note, the average was done with my new stickerless GTS2. Very nice cube, from all the modern cubes with squared-off corners, it's for sure the less catchy of all and on par in smoothness with the Valk. Algs flow pretty fast on it... when done right, because it's less stable than the Valk so things can go wrong more easily. I can imagine magnets transforming it in the best cube ever for both 2H and OH. Willing to spend the $50 required to get one.


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## Malkom (May 3, 2017)

phreaker said:


> Interesting thought... When I was at the competition. Parents seemed intimidated by the cube. (The irony of that isn't lost on me.)
> 
> A bit of me wondered is it worth one of us oldies putting together a 1 day "Learn how to cube" course. BYOC, opposite the competition.  I don't know if other people have done this. Is it a bad idea.. etc? Also I could see running 2-3 different classes over time... But that's me thinking aloud. I suspect people could be taught beginners in a day... Though I have no proof. I do think an older cuber, would do "better" here because well.. a parent may take instruction easier from a guy/gal who can drink . Ageism works both ways. :/ Once they go further and have some confidence, I suspect that they'll be able to use stuff like cubeskills etc. (Maybe this is something to do working with cubeskills.. who knows.)


At a comp I went to there was a few cubes, printed guides and a human guide sitting at a table to teach parents how to solve the cube. It seemed pretty popular, altough most people just fiddled a little with the cube without really learning anything.


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## JanW (May 3, 2017)

mafergut said:


> Talking about slow improvement... Looking at my statistics of long averages, more or less two years ago (April 2015) I got my 1st ever sub-20 Ao100 (19.96). More or less 1 year later (May 2016) I set a new PB Ao100 of 18.48 so 1.5 seconds in one year, not bad.
> 
> One year later I did today my first timed Ao100 after 1 month where I have not timed my 3x3 solves and just did either slow / untimed solves or other events, mainly OH and 4x4 to 6x6. Got a new PB but the effect of the slow solving practice was not as noticeable as I expected, to be honest I have not done enough focused practice to improve efficiency, cross to f2l transition, etc. just lookahead. New PB Ao100 is 18.41, just 0.07. Ao50 improved a bit more, from 18.39 to 18.19 but even that is just 0.2 seconds in one year!!!  I'm either doing something wrong with my training or I'm getting old and my hands lose what my lookahead gains. Not going to get to sub-15 (not even close to sub-17) any time soon unless I change something, probably never tbh.


I'm sure you can still improve a lot with the enough (and right kind of) practice. But it does indeed get slower the faster you get. And usually, at least for me, the less improvement there is, the less kicks I get out of practicing, which means less practicing and I start focusing on something else instead.

Lately I've seen some nice improvement, which inspired me to do a ton of solves today. Normally I can't focus at all after 100 or so solves, today I kept going and eventually got on a hot streak for my first sub-20 Ao50! New Ao50 pb, 19.87, is half a second faster than my previous best. Couldn't keep it up for the full Ao100 though, only shaved a couple of tenths off that average.


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## mafergut (May 3, 2017)

@JanW, thanks for the encouragement. But what you say is very true, as my progress is slower I end up losing motivation and focusing in other things, like big cubes  At least I'm not slower than 1 year ago, which is okay but they key is "the right kind of practice" as you say. Will have to find out what that is in my case.


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## mafergut (May 4, 2017)

Found this funny video from some weeks ago of Chris Pratt solving a Rubik's cube while being interviewed. I was surprised that he knew basic F2L but then he just started spamming Sune and Niklas to solve last layer and finished orienting corners. Looks like my Megaminx LL "strategy"


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## muchacho (May 4, 2017)

Someone should tell him to join this thread


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## JanW (May 4, 2017)

BOOM!!

Time List:
1. *12.99* D2 F2 U B U F' D' R' L' F L2 U' B2 L2 U' F2 D L2 U' F2 U'

x2 // inspection
D R' F L R U' R y R U R // XCross (and bring out first F2L pair I saw)
U2 R U' R' y R U R' // F2L 2
L' U2 L U R' U' R // F2L 3
U' L' U' L d' L U L' // F2L 4
R U R' U' R' F R F' // OLL
U // AUF

41 moves, 3.16 moves/second

Beat my old record by 1.07 seconds. Let's see if this new pb single also will hold up for over 6 months. I hope not!

Edit: Had a look back in this thread for my old pb single. Apparently it was set on October 6th last year. That solve was also 41 moves, like this one, and ended with the same OLL as this one. Interestingly, in that same post I mention I also got my first sub-25 Ao50. Yesterday I got my first sub-20 Ao50. Took me 5 seconds of overall improvement to beat that single!


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## pipkiksass (May 5, 2017)

Nice easy double x-cross for you all:

U2 L2 B' L2 U2 L2 B2 R2 U2 B' R B2 R2 U L U' F D2 L'

Note made orange/blue and orange/green pairs.

My solution started Y' (can never remember which way Y goes, but orange to front, white top), then B' F2 M2 for double X cross at the back.

12.669, only my 3rd best time of the day, but should've been better. Got checkerboard OLL, which I don't particularly love.

Let me know what you can do with it?!


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## muchacho (May 5, 2017)

12.149, nice scramble also for Roux.


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## mafergut (May 5, 2017)

What a scramble! Got 11.06 but after trying again, as the 1st time around I fumbled the OLL. Not only the double x-cross but the two other F2L pairs are easy, last layer was just meh or else it would have been close to sub-10.


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## mafergut (May 5, 2017)

Continued my Ao100 from Wednesday up to 200 solves but changed this time from GTS2 to Valk3 to take advantage of the additional stability. As I expected, I got less super-good singles but a lot more consistency and I must have been also more relaxed as I was not paying attention to the times and rolling average and just focusing on lookahead and wow!

I got my PB Ao50 and 100 down to 17.81 and 18.04 respectively. Finally sub-18 Ao50!!! So that's almost 0.5 seconds improvement from last year Ao100 and even more in Ao50. Well, this is still slow improvement but I'm very happy 

And, as a bonus, PB Ao5 15.54 (finally beating my 15.58 from more than 1.5 years ago, back in Oct 2015!!!!) and PB Ao12 16.66 (finally sub-17 Ao12, old PB was 17.09 from Oct 2016). In fact I kept rolling Ao12 below 17 seconds for another 10 more solves.


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## JanW (May 5, 2017)

Really nice results @mafergut! If you keep doing a few Ao100s/week, I'm sure you'll see even more improvement. 

I got my first sub-17 Ao5 today. I didn't even notice when it happened. Just kept solving and at some point I noticed I had managed a 16.96 Ao5. Also shaved a few hundreds off Ao50 and 0.1 seconds of Ao100. Ao100 should have been much better, but as soon as rolling Ao100 got close to my previous pb, I started messing up and did some sup-22 Ao12s...


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## Bart Van Eynde (May 6, 2017)

I'm still a real noob in this speedcubing thing, but recently i started to film my solves. When you look back at them you can see your weaknesses yourself. It really helped me finding my working points. No real surprises though (F2L like most people) but it's confronting cus you can really see how bad you are at it 
Just for info:
PB's:
single: 43.112
ao5: 55.052
ao12: 59.393
next goal: sub 60 on ao50 and ao100 and improving my lookahead (or better start with lookahead)


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## Bart Van Eynde (May 6, 2017)

Fyzzna said:


> Got some new PBs
> 
> ao5: 23.74, ao12: 24.95, ao50: 26.86
> 
> This might be a good time to start learning CMLL, though it does look like a lot of work to get all those algs down.


So you use the roux method?


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## David Zemdegs (May 7, 2017)

In my second competition today I went from a 2:08 avg to 1:35! Got alot of good crosses and two corner LL skips.
Next is Worlds!


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## h2f (May 7, 2017)

http://cubecomps.com/live.php?cid=2192&compid=46

Im quite happy about the results:
- in 4x4 in 2nd solve should be 1:05 but I didnt notice it's a diagonal parity swap. Anyway I did cutoff and made ao5 which is comparable with my ao100 in home. I feel a great potence in my solves and I know 1:0x is a achievable in a couple of months. I did only practice 4x4 for a week.
- in OH I knew cutoff will be hard.
- in 3x3 I've made a lot of mistakes. During warmup my avgs were around 17-18. In 2nd round I've saved sub20 in a last solve which was with Na perm in the end.
- 5x5 - I didnt even practice but saw Maciek Czapiewski winning with Yau5. I love Yau so I think, Ill try.


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## mark49152 (May 7, 2017)

Congrats Grzegorz. No BLD at this comp?


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## Fyzzna (May 7, 2017)

Bart Van Eynde said:


> So you use the roux method?


I do, yes. After I got the Beginners method down I looked at this thread to decide which Speedsolving method to use. Turns out I really enjoy blockbuilding and Petrus has some awkward moves so the decision wasn't all that hard.


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## h2f (May 7, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> Congrats Grzegorz. No BLD at this comp?



No.  And next comp there is going to be mbld but no 3bld.


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## mark49152 (May 7, 2017)

h2f said:


> No.  And next comp there is going to be mbld but no 3bld.


That's unusual...


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## newtonbase (May 7, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> That's unusual...


Yes. Maybe they are giving the opportunity for WC qualification.


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## h2f (May 7, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> That's unusual...



Yes.



newtonbase said:


> Yes. Maybe they are giving the opportunity for WC qualification.



I dont think so. I hope it's just vacancy.


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## mitja (May 7, 2017)

I did my 2nd int. competition today. Lots of PB's. very satisfied considering I had only 4 hours of sleep and waking up at 6A.M to catch early morning 3BLd. No success in blind today, I was so sleepy that didn't need the blinds. But 5x5 PB with no rehearsal and great PB 1:07 single 4x4. The magnets and spring mod in Wuque are amazing.
http://m.cubecomps.com/competitions/2203/competitors/19


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## phreaker (May 8, 2017)

mitja said:


> I did my 2nd int. competition today. Lots of PB's. very satisfied considering I had only 4 hours of sleep and waking up at 6A.M to catch early morning 3BLd. No success in blind today, I was so sleepy that didn't need the blinds. But 5x5 PB with no rehearsal and great PB 1:07 single 4x4. The magnets and spring mod in Wuque are amazing.
> http://m.cubecomps.com/competitions/2203/competitors/19



What mods did you do to your Wuque?


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## newtonbase (May 8, 2017)

I could barely get a 3BLD solve last week but I've just done 4 solves at lunch. First was the first time I've used full corner comms. It was sub 2 despite fixing edge errors and only a DNF due to using wrong orientation when twisting the last corner. Followed this with a Mo3 of 1:52.61 (no comms) which is pretty decent for me. Shame my break ended.


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## mark49152 (May 8, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> I could barely get a 3BLD solve last week but I've just done 4 solves at lunch. First was the first time I've used full corner comms. It was sub 2 despite fixing edge errors and only a DNF due to using wrong orientation when twisting the last corner. Followed this with a Mo3 of 1:52.61 (no comms) which is pretty decent for me. Shame my break ended.


Nice progress


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## mitja (May 8, 2017)

phreaker said:


> What mods did you do to your Wuque?


Changed the springs to thunderclap, but added a washer because the springs are to short. This combination with magnets is incredible. Perfect balance.


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## JanW (May 8, 2017)

The last few weeks I've been using the Valk exclusively. Today I tried again the MoJue M3 and with my first 150 solves I broke all pb averages Ao5-Ao100. The most significant was Ao12 down to 18.08! Somehow it seems that whenever I switch cubes, I improve. Maybe I'll just have to keep switching back and forth every week.


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## mafergut (May 8, 2017)

JanW said:


> The last few weeks I've been using the Valk exclusively. Today I tried again the MoJue M3 and with my first 150 solves I broke all pb averages Ao5-Ao100. The most significant was Ao12 down to 18.08! Somehow it seems that whenever I switch cubes, I improve. Maybe I'll just have to keep switching back and forth every week.


Nice!! I sometimes have the same feeling, that changing cubes can be beneficial and I like to change mains (at least temporarily) every now and then. I think it makes you concentrate again in turning accurately as you are not as used to the new cube and that maybe is the reason why you improve your times?


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## JanW (May 9, 2017)

mafergut said:


> I sometimes have the same feeling, that changing cubes can be beneficial and I like to change mains (at least temporarily) every now and then. I think it makes you concentrate again in turning accurately as you are not as used to the new cube and that maybe is the reason why you improve your times?


Yeah, probably something like that. The new feeling of a slightly unfamiliar cube keeps me on the edge.

Before switching to the MoJue I had a couple of really bad sessions with the Valk (Ao100 >21.50). For the first time in a while I had Ao100s go way above the rolling Ao1000 in csTimer, which currently stands at about 20.90. This is a sign that progress has slowed down even further... This always happens when I close in on a big milestone. At least it feels this way. Took me forever to get a sub-30 Ao100, but when I finally got it, times quickly dropped a few seconds more. Same with sub-25 and now it's again slowing down when I approach sub-20. Probably something to do with nerves.


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## JanW (May 9, 2017)

And now I managed to break the remaining pb with the MoJue as well! Last pb single was 12.99 from last week.

Generated By csTimer on 2017-5-9

1. *12.26* U R2 B2 U2 B2 F2 U' L2 F2 R2 U' F L B' U' R' F D' L B2

z2 // inspection
F R' B' L D B // cross
U2 L U' L' // F2L 1
R U R' U2 L' U' L // F2L 2
U' R U R' U2 R U' R' // F2L 3
d L U L' // F2L 4
U' R U2 R' U' R U' R' // OLL (pll skip)

37 moves, 3.03 moves/second

That would already be quite a decent result for FMC.


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## JohnnyReggae (May 9, 2017)

My my anticipated package arrived yesterday with 2 Moyu GTS V2's  Decided to get a black and a stickerless. All my cubes are black except for 1 YeuXiao which I don't like using as the green and yellow shades are difficult for me to tell apart so I end up struggling with it.



The stickerless GTS V2 is awesome. The shades are great and I don't have issues with colour clashes. I have put magnets is it as the GTS v2 is a little unstable out the box. The magnets make this a super stable cube now. I used N38 5x1.5mm magnets. While the pull force is a little more than I'm used to with my other M mods I do like the feeling. I will definitely be putting magnets into the black one, I'm still trying to decide if I should go with the same or weaker magnets.

 

The black does feel different to the stickerless out the box. Almost quicker and little more unstable. That could just be tensioning. With magnets this will be a great cube.

Did a quick ao12 with the stickerless ... not my best, but very consistent 

Generated By csTimer on 2017-5-9
avg of 12: 16.67

Time List:
1. 16.91 F' U2 L' D2 B2 R2 U2 L' U2 R' B R' U B U' F2 U2 F D'
2. 16.52 D2 B2 F2 L F2 L F2 U2 D L' B' D2 L2 D' B F L' F'
3. 16.39 R F2 L' B2 L2 U2 L F2 R' U2 R F' D' L' U R' U2 L2 F' R'
4. 16.49 D L2 D' R B2 L2 B' U2 R' B2 D R2 U2 R2 D B2 U2 R'
5. 16.27 F R U2 R' U2 R2 B2 D2 F2 R U B2 D' L2 B F' L' F2
6. 17.02 L2 D' L U F2 R' B' U2 R D' U2 F U2 F' D2 L2 D2 F' D2 B
7. 17.36 U' L2 U' L2 F2 R2 U F2 D2 B U' F' L' B' R F' L2 U2
8. 16.44 L F2 U' L2 U' L2 U R2 D' L2 U' L' U2 L' F D B' D' L R2 B2
9. (15.69) B2 L2 B' L2 F D2 B U2 B D2 F R' F' D B' F' D2 R' B U F2
10. 17.39 U' B2 L2 D2 L2 R2 U' F2 L2 D L2 B R2 F L' B' D2 L2 D2 U
11. (17.81) U2 L' B2 L F2 L R B2 R D2 B L D L R2 D' B2 U L' B
12. 15.90 F2 U F2 U2 B2 F2 U R2 B2 D2 B F U R B R2 D' L' D' F2


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## Lid (May 9, 2017)

Almost sub23 OH now, 3rd time in a week I've beaten my a12

Average of 12: 23.141
1. 22.778 B' D2 L' F U R2 U L F' B2 U R2 U' D L2 F2 D' B2
2. (20.486) U' R2 U' R2 U L2 D' B2 U2 L2 F2 L D' F D' B' U F L' U
3. 24.089 L2 B2 D2 B' L2 R2 B2 U2 B D2 F U' L R2 B F' U' R2 B2 R2
4. 25.599 L2 D L2 D F2 D U R2 F2 L2 B2 L D' B' R U2 R' D2 B U2
5. 22.216 R2 U2 L2 B2 F' R2 F2 L2 U2 B2 F' R' U' F' D' F U' R F2 U' F2
6. 23.773 U' B2 R L' D' L' B' R2 U D2 F R2 L2 F U2 D2 B' D2 B2 U2
7. 22.361 R2 U' B2 R2 U' B2 R2 U2 F2 R2 F2 L D B' D2 F2 D2 L2 R' U L
8. 23.341 F2 L D2 R F2 U2 F2 L2 D2 R' F2 U L2 B' R' D B R' B F'
9. (29.994) U2 R2 U R2 F2 U2 B2 R2 B2 D' L' D' F' L2 R D' B2 F' R2 U2
10. 20.968 L2 F2 D R2 D' L2 D' R2 D2 U' L D B D U R' D B' D2 F D2
11. 21.146 D2 F U2 B R2 B L2 U2 F D2 B L' U2 R B D2 L2 B2 L2 U
12. 25.135 L2 U D R' F L D' B' R B2 D2 F U2 L2 F L2 B R2 U2


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## Logiqx (May 9, 2017)

Shame this session ended with my journey home... nice Ao50.

Title: 3x3x3 Cube
Scrambler: 3x3x3 Simple
Session: 163
*# of solving: 56*
# of penalty: 0
# of DNF: 0
Std Dev: 1.120
Best of all: 12.908
Worst of all: 22.266
*Average of all: 16.336*
Best Avg of 5: 14.921
Best Avg of 12: 15.727
*Best Avg of 50: 16.234*
Best Avg of 25: 16.078
---- Generated by KingEn Timer v3.3

Solving times: 13.452 15.448 15.860 15.343 15.257 17.757 15.891 15.980 17.007 18.802 16.071 17.786 15.924 17.868 16.338 15.499 15.888 16.728 15.422 16.071 16.492 15.551 15.528 16.471 22.266 15.925 17.243 14.679 14.805 16.901 19.194 15.592 17.311 15.339 14.147 18.432 13.795 15.277 15.490 15.823 18.714 12.908 16.064 17.253 17.932 16.538 15.199 16.454 16.598 16.437 19.270 19.459 16.540 15.926 17.342 14.712


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## Logiqx (May 9, 2017)

Ah... managed to finish the Ao100.

Gotta love 16.384 as a computer guy!

Mike

Title: 3x3x3 Cube
Scrambler: 3x3x3 Simple
Session: 163
# of solving: 100
# of penalty: 0
# of DNF: 0
Std Dev: 1.088
Best of all: 12.908
Worst of all: 22.266
Average of all: 16.384
Best Avg of 5: 14.921
Best Avg of 12: 15.727
*Best Avg of 50: 16.189
Best Avg of 100: 16.384*


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## mark49152 (May 9, 2017)

Logiqx said:


> Gotta love 16.384 as a computer guy!


Multiply by 3 and you get...


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## Logiqx (May 9, 2017)

Logiqx said:


> *Best Avg of 50: 16.189
> Best Avg of 100: 16.384*



I've just checked and that session contained decent PBs. The Ao50 was by 0.55s and Ao100 was by 0.51s

Recent practice seems to be paying off at last!


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## JohnnyReggae (May 10, 2017)

So after staying away from stickerless for ... forever really .. I may actually be swayed now. I've been using the stickerless GTS2 these last 2 days and it is awesome. I though I would struggle a bit with the colour recognition after struggling with my stickerless YeuXiao but the shades are great and contrast nicely.

I've been getting much more consistent times with it as apposed to my normal black cubes which between them have different shades. I did 130 times solves yesterday with an all-time high of sub 15's ... 20 in total. Including a 10 (pll skip) and 2 11's which were both full-step. I'm quite impressed with the GTS2, it's a great cube. I'm also equally impressed at the consistent times I seem to get with it.

These are all my sub 15's from yesterday:

10.52 B2 R2 B2 U' F2 D B2 U R2 D' B U B F2 L B2 R' D2 R' B 
11.33 U2 L2 F' D2 F' R2 D2 B' R2 F2 R' U2 R' F L U R2 B U2 F' 
11.76 L2 U2 F' L2 F' R2 B R2 D' R' U L' B2 U' L' B' U' F 
13.38 R B' L2 D2 L2 B' U2 R2 F R2 B2 F U R D F' L R' F D L2 
13.45 U R2 F' U2 R2 B L2 F U2 R2 U2 R2 D B R' D F2 D' F R' B 
13.60 F R2 D L2 B2 L2 B2 U F2 L2 U F2 R F' D F R F' R' F2 R2 
13.71 F2 L B2 L2 F2 R B2 D2 L R D' R F' L' R' B' U R' B2 L2 
13.81 L D L' F R L D' R' F2 D' R2 F2 D' F2 R2 D' L2 U R2 
13.89 U L' F' D' B' R' U' F L' U' R' F2 R' F2 D2 L' D2 L' B2 L2 F2 
13.90 U D B' R2 D F2 L' F' R F2 D2 F2 D' F2 R2 L2 F2 D' R2 B2 
13.95 D' R2 L D F' D2 B' R U2 L' U' L2 U2 R2 U R2 D' L2 F2 D R2 
14.02 B' U2 F L2 D2 B' L2 D2 U2 F D2 L' R2 U' F' R' D F L2 R 
14.15 R2 U' L2 D2 B U' R' L' B D2 R2 U2 F2 U B2 R2 D' F2 U2 
14.38 F2 D' L F2 D2 F U' R' L2 D' U2 L F2 B2 U2 B2 L' F2 D2 
14.47 U2 B U2 R2 D2 L2 B' U2 F D2 F' D' R2 U' L' B2 R2 B' L' D2 F' 
14.71 B U2 B2 R2 F D2 F2 D2 F' U2 F2 U' L' F2 D' F' D' U' L2 F2 
14.72 U2 F2 U2 F2 L2 U2 F R2 U2 B2 U2 L' F U2 F2 L D L' F R2 D2 
14.73 U' R2 B2 D L2 U' B2 R2 U' F2 U' L' B' R B D R2 U' R' B L 
14.81 F2 L2 R2 U' L2 B2 D' B2 F2 D2 U' R' D F' L U' L2 R' B' U L 
14.87 B2 D' F2 U' R2 B2 U' R2 D' R2 D2 L' F' R2 U' R' D' U' L' R2 U


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## pglewis (May 10, 2017)

JohnnyReggae said:


> So after staying away from stickerless for ... forever really .. I may actually be swayed now. I've been using the stickerless GTS2 these last 2 days and it is awesome. I though I would struggle a bit with the colour recognition after struggling with my stickerless YeuXiao but the shades are great and contrast nicely.
> 
> I've been getting much more consistent times with it as apposed to my normal black cubes which between them have different shades. I did 130 times solves yesterday with an all-time high of sub 15's ... 20 in total. Including a 10 (pll skip) and 2 11's which were both full-step. I'm quite impressed with the GTS2, it's a great cube. I'm also equally impressed at the consistent times I seem to get with it.



As another fast cube fan I thought you might like the GTS2. I agree with @mafergut that The Valk is still King when it comes to stability but I would imagine a magnetized GTS2 would close that gap. The one thing I found about adapting to a lighter turning style is it's easier to get "blocked" by the puzzle rather than have it cut, often resulting in an unintended layer turn elsewhere. The GTS2 actually seems less prone to that for me than the Valk and slices don't feel much more sluggish to me than outside layers.


----------



## JohnnyReggae (May 11, 2017)

pglewis said:


> As another fast cube fan I thought you might like the GTS2. I agree with @mafergut that The Valk is still King when it comes to stability but I would imagine a magnetized GTS2 would close that gap. The one thing I found about adapting to a lighter turning style is it's easier to get "blocked" by the puzzle rather than have it cut, often resulting in an unintended layer turn elsewhere. The GTS2 actually seems less prone to that for me than the Valk and slices don't feel much more sluggish to me than outside layers.


The Valk is definitely more stable out of the box. The GTS2 is faster though and the addition of magnets makes the cube very stable. Comparing the Valk and GTS2 both with magnets, I would take the GTS2. The Valk is more blocky and not as forgiving with small cuts as the GTS2 particularly when turning fast.

I've tried 2 different strength magnets in the stickerless and black. With the stickerless I went with N38 5x1.5mm, and the black with N35 4x2mm. The stickerless as already mentioned is absolutely awesome. The black feels better though from a turning perspective, but I seem to get better times with the stickerless. Having said that though I did get an OH PB last night ( 21.19  ) with the black which is better suited to OH with the weaker magnets.


----------



## mitja (May 11, 2017)

JohnnyReggae said:


> The Valk is definitely more stable out of the box. The GTS2 is faster though and the addition of magnets makes the cube very stable. Comparing the Valk and GTS2 both with magnets, I would take the GTS2. The Valk is more blocky and not as forgiving with small cuts as the GTS2 particularly when turning fast.
> 
> I've tried 2 different strength magnets in the stickerless and black. With the stickerless I went with N38 5x1.5mm, and the black with N35 4x2mm. The stickerless as already mentioned is absolutely awesome. The black feels better though from a turning perspective, but I seem to get better times with the stickerless. Having said that though I did get an OH PB last night ( 21.19  ) with the black which is better suited to OH with the weaker magnets.


I have both cubes , magnetised them and I use Gts2 as addition for 2 weeks. i still think Valk is the leader. I prefer stickerles shade of Qiyi. The yellow on moyu is not what I like. I believe gts2 has better springs. Valk springs are its minus. If I want Valk slower, I need to increase the tensions ( and add weight5 lube) and then it is as you say "not forgiving" enough. The magnets help but it could be better. I am trying to find a bit stronger springs for valk, not there yet. 
There is something nice and soft about gts2, not shure yet. Both of the cubes can make me turn a slice( usually middle) by accident. I am putting N38 4x2 magnets in my daughters Valk today. I want to see if there will be the difference from N35.


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## JohnnyReggae (May 12, 2017)

mitja said:


> I prefer stickerles shade of Qiyi. The yellow on moyu is not what I like.


I've not tried the stickerless Valk, but I have just ordered one. Along with another stickerless GTS2 as I have already sold the one I got the other day. Kind of sad to let it go as I think it's an amazing cube, but there is a bigger plan and a sacrifice I needed to make. But on the bright side I'll have a stickerless Valk and GTS2 at the end.


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## mafergut (May 13, 2017)

It looks like we all agree on the GTS2 and the Valk. With magnets to give it added stability it can be the best cube ever. I also seem to like a little better the Valk stickerless shades (with the darker red and blue) but I'm perfectly fine with Moyu's as well. The word is not "like" but "tell appart" in less than perfect lighting conditions.

So, have you seen that Moyu is starting to sell the GTS2 magnetized from factory for like $26? I'm definitely getting one.

EDIT: I have already pre-ordered one to SCS.


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## mitja (May 13, 2017)

I have put N38 4x2 magnets to stickerless Valk yesterday. It feels really good. I've loosened the tensions and now it is as forgiving as gts2. I like it more then N35, but it is up to turning style.


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## mark49152 (May 13, 2017)

mafergut said:


> So, have you seen that Moyu is starting to sell the GTS2 magnetized from factory for like $26? I'm definitely getting one.


Chris Tran talks about it here.


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## Shaky Hands (May 13, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> Chris Tran talks about it here.



Very interesting, thanks Mark.


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## mark49152 (May 14, 2017)

Some nice PBs for @moralsh, including 4BLD. Congrats! http://m.cubecomps.com/competitions/2231/competitors/2


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## moralsh (May 14, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> Some nice PBs for @moralsh, including 4BLD. Congrats! http://m.cubecomps.com/competitions/2231/competitors/2


hehe, thanks

I was way too tired yesterday but somehow it didn't go that bad, another 2-3-4 rounds today and mega, let's see what we can do, I'll try to do a full report as usual.

I was very close to get the 3 4BLDs right yesterday, at least I was lucky enough to get right the fastest one


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## mafergut (May 14, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> Chris Tran talks about it here.


If I understand it correctly, he says that Cubicle Labs magnet option is better than what Moyu has come up with in their mass produced GTS2M? And, I would assume, also better than what you can achieve with a DIY GTS2 with cylindrical 4x2mm N35 or similar? Has anybody actually looked inside the pieces of a Cubicle GTS2M / Valk3 M... to see which magnets they are putting in there? Because he says that they cannot put rectangular ones due to assembly issues so... what then? Just curious, as I have already ordered my Moyu GTS2M to SCS.


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## One Wheel (May 14, 2017)

mafergut said:


> If I understand it correctly, he says that Cubicle Labs magnet option is better than what Moyu has come up with in their mass produced GTS2M? And, I would assume, also better than what you can achieve with a DIY GTS2 with cylindrical 4x2mm N35 or similar? Has anybody actually looked inside the pieces of a Cubicle GTS2M / Valk3 M... to see which magnets they are putting in there? Because he says that they cannot put rectangular ones due to assembly issues so... what then? Just curious, as I have already ordered my Moyu GTS2M to SCS.



That was a little hard to follow, but I think what he's saying is that moyu uses 3mm diameter magnets and theCubicle uses 5mm diameter.


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## Lid (May 14, 2017)

... just can't get that sub1 avg5 for 4x4 ...
last 16 of todays session: 58.80, 1:12.41, {56.92, 1:21.99, [1:01.49, 57.79, 1:02.84}, 1:06.61, 1:03.80, 1:08.69, 1:07.91, 1:05.04, 1:00.82, 1:07.28, 54.24, 1:02.95] = [1:03.65 a12] & {1:00.71 a5}


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## Jason Green (May 15, 2017)

I finally beat my a5 that had been around for several months with a 15.34. My a12 and up on my signature need to be updated but I really don't know what they are, and because I sometimes delete goofed up solves I don't want to put an invalid average. Maybe I'll do a clean session soon to update them.


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## teacher77 (May 15, 2017)

Two new PBs during the very same session tonight :
mo10 at 23.22 (down from 23.64)
mo5 at 21.66 (down from 22.10 !!)

Oh and the Ao5 is exactly the same at 21.66 while the Ao12 is 23.14


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## JohnnyReggae (May 15, 2017)

mafergut said:


> It looks like we all agree on the GTS2 and the Valk. With magnets to give it added stability it can be the best cube ever. I also seem to like a little better the Valk stickerless shades (with the darker red and blue) but I'm perfectly fine with Moyu's as well. The word is not "like" but "tell appart" in less than perfect lighting conditions.
> 
> So, have you seen that Moyu is starting to sell the GTS2 magnetized from factory for like $26? I'm definitely getting one.
> 
> EDIT: I have already pre-ordered one to SCS.


Cubezz has them now for $19.99

http://www.cubezz.com/Buy-5307-MoYu+Weilong+GTS2M+Magnetic+3x3x3+Stickerless+Speed+Cube.html

http://www.cubezz.com/Buy-5308-MoYu+Weilong+GTS2M+Magnetic+3x3x3+Speed+Cube+Black.html

I'm tempted to get one, but I've just ordered standard black and stickerless GTS2's from Cubezz.


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## moralsh (May 15, 2017)

Mixed emotions as usual with my last comp, here's my report.

2x2: Disaster, forgot the bar-diagonal PBL and got it 6 times in two rounds, I almost ended up with my worst average ever 
3x3: After getting Ao12 and Ao50 PBs a couple of days earlier I just didn't get it right in neither of the rounds. the 27 was a case of CFOPOP after a messed G Perm.
3x3OH: A disappointment, I was trying to get under 30 average to qualify for worlds and ended improving only slightly my average
3x3BLD: A bigger disappointment, DNFs were as worse as the valid solves except the one in which Berta got the ER on I just couldn't retain my memo.
4x4: Fell .40 short of qualifying for worlds but I'm very happy with the second round, in the 1:08 I had a mental lapse for several seconds because I tried to save a free pair before doing the last edge swap and just forgot what I was doing, it could even have been sub 1 or close.
4x4BLD: Very happy with the PB, but I was close to getting a mean:
- First solve was OK until I needed to twist the last corner (UBR) and decided to do it with OP, I did RBU sticker and undid the setup with R instead of R2, then did UBR right but damage was done.
- Second solve was slow but only off by an edge 3-cycle because I executed RF instead of LF (or the other way around, can't remember)
- Third solve was around 5:30 memo and fluid execution, the only problem I got is that I forgot how to undo the setup to do the PLL parity at the end, in fact I ended doing it again and undoing it twice. It could definitely have been sub 9.
5x5: a couple of bad solves messed my average.
5x5BLD: first solve was memoed ok but I had some recalling problems. Also must have executed poorly because it was off by some 25 pieces. Second solve was a mistake altogether xD
6x6: Nice single, all parities and some lockups in the other 2 solves prevented me from getting a better mean
Mega: again 2 very bad solves messed my average should have been sub 3. Next time I guess
Skewb: Nice single. I could have done a better one earlier but forgot how to do the U Perm and messed up a couple of times afterwards, ending up doing 1+ minute.
Pyra: I suck at pyra


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## mark49152 (May 15, 2017)

Nice report @moralsh. So frustrating when those big BLD solves get screwed up right at the end! 

I just smashed my 4BLD PB while warming up for the weekly comp. 4:25 down from 5:14. Methinks that PB will stand for a while. The scramble was 12/22/7. The easy centres made the difference because once I chose the orientation and saw there were only 12 centre targets I rushed the rest of the solve too.


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## Shaky Hands (May 15, 2017)

Great report @moralsh. Thanks for sharing.

Time for another signature update @mark49152. Well done fella.


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## h2f (May 15, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> I just smashed my 4BLD PB while warming up for the weekly comp. 4:25 down from 5:14. Methinks that PB will stand for a while. The scramble was 12/22/7. The easy centres made the difference because once I chose the orientation and saw there were only 12 centre targets I rushed the rest of the solve too.



Wow! Congrats!


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## mafergut (May 15, 2017)

JohnnyReggae said:


> Cubezz has them now for $19.99
> 
> http://www.cubezz.com/Buy-5307-MoYu+Weilong+GTS2M+Magnetic+3x3x3+Stickerless+Speed+Cube.html
> 
> ...


Just saw it today and I just ordered mine two days ago for $35 including shipping cost so, I wasted $15  Thinking about getting a spare one from Cubezz to halve the loss per cube


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## JanW (May 15, 2017)

That $19.99 offer on cubezz looks rather tempting! I still haven't tried a GTS2, nor any kind of magnetized cube. I'm just a bit afraid that if I got a magnetized cube, all of my old cubes would become obsolete, and all future cubes would become more expensive as I henceforth would demand magnets...


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## mafergut (May 15, 2017)

JanW said:


> That $19.99 offer on cubezz looks rather tempting! I still haven't tried a GTS2, nor any kind of magnetized cube. I'm just a bit afraid that if I got a magnetized cube, all of my old cubes would become obsolete, and all future cubes would become more expensive as I henceforth would demand magnets...


That was exactly my reasoning but... it's also inevitable. And that price point of $20 is going to bring all the magnetized cube submarket down necessarily, which is a good thing.


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## JohnnyReggae (May 16, 2017)

JanW said:


> That $19.99 offer on cubezz looks rather tempting! I still haven't tried a GTS2, nor any kind of magnetized cube. I'm just a bit afraid that if I got a magnetized cube, all of my old cubes would become obsolete, and all future cubes would become more expensive as I henceforth would demand magnets...


You do have a valid point. I must say I struggle with non-magnetised cubes now. I'm sure that if I did more than a handful of solves with a non-mangetised cube I'd settle into it again, but picking one up now it feels strange and not controllable.



mafergut said:


> That was exactly my reasoning but... it's also inevitable. And that price point of $20 is going to bring all the magnetized cube submarket down necessarily, which is a good thing.


I'm surprised that the Moyu has a price point of $20, which is half the price of the other magnetic options out there. It was only a matter of time before other manufacturers would start doing factory magnetic cubes. More competition is great and will hopefully bring the prices down further.

My only issue with buying a factory magnetic cube is that you have no idea of the strength of the magnets, as like everything else cube related there is a lot of personal preference, but at least a $20 "mistake" is easier to swallow than a $50 "mistake"


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## JanW (May 16, 2017)

After spending a week with the MoJue M3, I noticed my turning got quite inaccurate and sloppy, so I switched back to the Valk. Again, immediately after switching cubes I saw some PBs. Among other, my first sub-20 Ao100! The 100 solves included two sub-15s, one of them a 14.06 full-step, which I think is my full-step pb.


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## h2f (May 16, 2017)

I got first ao50 sub17 (16.98). Yay....


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## mitja (May 16, 2017)

JohnnyReggae said:


> You do have a valid point. I must say I struggle with non-magnetised cubes now. I'm sure that if I did more than a handful of solves with a non-mangetised cube I'd settle into it again, but picking one up now it feels strange and not controllable.
> 
> 
> I'm surprised that the Moyu has a price point of $20, which is half the price of the other magnetic options out there. It was only a matter of time before other manufacturers would start doing factory magnetic cubes. More competition is great and will hopefully bring the prices down further.
> ...


Agreed. It would be much better to make plastic sockets for magnets in factory. We would add magnets by our choice. The socket would speed up the process.


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## One Wheel (May 16, 2017)

mitja said:


> Agreed. It would be much better to make plastic sockets for magnets in factory. We would add magnets by our choice. The socket would speed up the process.



Have you experimented with different shapes of magnets? I haven't, but what Chris Tran said about rectangular magnets makes some sense. Most people are using the 4x2s, so if they were to put pockets in the cube that would probably be the size, but without pockets there is a lot more flexibility.


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## mitja (May 16, 2017)

the biggest problem with magnets is, that the strenght is very personal. It could be some difference if very different surface sizes would be used 3mm against 6mm( the magnetic force would be distributed differently) But In such a small cube piece it should not be that noticeable. The biggest difference I noticed was the added 3 magnets weight in each of the center piece to balance for 12 magnets difference in outer-inner slices. It is my experience of last month that having this added weight is much better experience. Every person that tries it, likes it.


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## mitja (May 16, 2017)

I think the big problem of manufacturers is, that the magnets need to bi done by hand. It adds up to the costs fot each cube exponentially. This new prices for GTS2M at lightake are so low, makes me wonder, how cheap the costs of manufacturing the nonmagnetic cubes really are?


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## One Wheel (May 16, 2017)

mitja said:


> This new prices for GTS2M at lightake are so low, makes me wonder, how cheap the costs of manufacturing the nonmagnetic cubes really are?



I'd hazard a guess they start at about $0.87 and go up to about 3-4 times that.


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## Lid (May 16, 2017)

Todays 4x4 pracitce yielded in a a12 PB: *1:03.058* (first with the WuQue) {ba5: 1:00.653}
55.606, 1:02.843, 1:08.966, {1:01.449, 1:01.689, 1:04.911, 58.822, (55.101)}, 1:10.226, 1:09.850, 56.215, (1:10.999)

Finally also finished modding all my QiYi Square-1s ... (glue/sping/core(if needed))


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## JohnnyReggae (May 17, 2017)

mitja said:


> the biggest problem with magnets is, that the strenght is very personal. It could be some difference if very different surface sizes would be used 3mm against 6mm( the magnetic force would be distributed differently) But In such a small cube piece it should not be that noticeable. The biggest difference I noticed was the added 3 magnets weight in each of the center piece to balance for 12 magnets difference in outer-inner slices. It is my experience of last month that having this added weight is much better experience. Every person that tries it, likes it.


Could you explain in a little more detail about putting magnets into the center pieces ? Or did you just add additional weight into the center's to equal the weight of 3 magnets ? If so, what did you use ? I'm intrigued but it and the weight distribution.


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## h2f (May 17, 2017)

Not a legit scramble (handmade or the state after unfinished attempt) but anyway nice solve. 10/4 I guess





__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1201223480004827


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## JohnnyReggae (May 17, 2017)

I have a few questions regarding Blind ... please excuse my noob questions  

I learnt blind just over a year ago but have never pursued it other than ... yay I did it ... really. I would like to pick it up again and do it a little more seriously

When I originally learnt a letter scheme I used the same as the YouTube tutorial I was learnt from being SpeedCubeReview's. I've later discovered that this is not the Speffz standard scheme. Not that I think it does, but does this make a difference and seeing as I haven't done too much with blind should I switch over the the standard Speffz scheme ?

I use the Old Pochman method because it's the easiest to start with ?

Using Old Pochman I'm confused about "parity". I know that if I have an odd number of swaps that there will be parity due to the swap of pieces. I'm confused on how to deal with the "parity". This is what I assume with doing corners first followed by edges ... Do all of the corner swaps leaving the last, do all the edge swaps, followed by the last corner swap, followed by a U' and a lefty R-Perm (Ra) ([L U2' L' U2'] [L F'] [L' U' L U] [L F] L2' U) ? What happens if I wanted to do edges first ? Are my assumptions anywhere near correct ? 

Is there a concise tutorial that is not too long ? I've looked at Noah's blind tutorials on YouTube, but to be honest his voice is quite monotonous and I find myself drifting to sleep during them. Shaun from SpeedCubeReview did a very cool tutorial which I initially learnt from, however he glosses over the "parity" a bit to quickly for me to fully grasp it.

Again, I apologise for the noob questions ... and for my lack of adequate research


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## h2f (May 17, 2017)

JohnnyReggae said:


> Do all of the corner swaps leaving the last, do all the edge swaps, followed by the last corner swap, followed by a U' and a lefty R-Perm (Ra) ([L U2' L' U2'] [L F'] [L' U' L U] [L F] L2' U) ? What happens if I wanted to do edges first ? Are my assumptions anywhere near correct ?



Doing OP it's no matter what you do first: edges or corners. To solve parity you always put Ra perm between edges and corners. I've learnt 3bld mostly from Noah's tutorial.


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## mark49152 (May 17, 2017)

@JohnnyReggae: Lettering scheme doesn't really matter except that using a standard one makes it easier to communicate with others. For example, you might one day come across a handy list of comms or images indexed by Speffz pairs and it will be more convenient if that's what you use.

I can't really help with the parity question as I have never used OP for edges.

I can't think of a better tutorial than Noah's. Maybe a strong coffee would help?


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## JohnnyReggae (May 17, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> @JohnnyReggae: Lettering scheme doesn't really matter except that using a standard one makes it easier to communicate with others. For example, you might one day come across a handy list of comms or images indexed by Speffz pairs and it will be more convenient if that's what you use.
> 
> I can't really help with the parity question as I have never used OP for edges.
> 
> I can't think of a better tutorial than Noah's. Maybe a strong coffee would help?


3 cups down and I'm still struggling


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## JohnnyReggae (May 17, 2017)

Another noob blind question. I know that there is a lot of personal preference for what type of memorisation is used, but generally speaking what do you guys use ? So far I have tried letter pairs and trying to make up sentences and to be honest the memorisation is the hardest part of the blind solve for me. I like the idea of auditory memorisation but have never tried it


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## Malkom (May 17, 2017)

JohnnyReggae said:


> Another noob blind question. I know that there is a lot of personal preference for what type of memorisation is used, but generally speaking what do you guys use ? So far I have tried letter pairs and trying to make up sentences and to be honest the memorisation is the hardest part of the blind solve for me. I like the idea of auditory memorisation but have never tried it


I think most people use audio for one part and a picture for the other. You usually use the one you're more comfortable with for edges, since there are more edges than corners.


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## JanW (May 17, 2017)

JohnnyReggae said:


> Another noob blind question. I know that there is a lot of personal preference for what type of memorisation is used, but generally speaking what do you guys use ? So far I have tried letter pairs and trying to make up sentences and to be honest the memorisation is the hardest part of the blind solve for me. I like the idea of auditory memorisation but have never tried it


I'd also regard myself quite a noob when it comes to blind. I've mainly done it in periods, worked on it for a few weeks, then forgot about it for several months before trying again. I've found memo to be the hardest part whenever I pick up blind again after a break. However, it gets better quite quickly. In the beginning it's really slow if you are coming up with words on the fly. Once you have standard words to use for your sentences, it's a lot faster.

Audio works fine for me, when I get fast enough. When memo is slow, it's really hard to remember an audio sequence. But when you can look through the edges and memo the audio sequence quickly and immediately solve the edges, without any need to go back and recap your corner memo in between, then audio works very well.

As for method, when I first learned BLD I went straight for comms. Just learned the basic principle and started working out each case on the fly. It was slow at first, but quickly got easier. Now, if I try BLD again after a 6 month break, I have no problem solving everything with comms immediately. Since I learned to do them intuitively, there are no algs for me to forget. I know this is very unconventional and learning comms first is not generally recommended by anyone here. But as far as I know, nobody else here has any first hand experience of learning BLD this way.


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## mark49152 (May 17, 2017)

@JohnnyReggae : I use images and audio. 

The key to making visual memo easier, faster and more reliable is to develop a set of images that instantly come to mind for each pair, especially the weird ones. And the images need to be vivid and distinct. I used to waste so much time struggling to find images, and made so many mistakes when the images were too weak. For example, if I got the pair LS the first words that would come to mind might be "less" or "lose" or "loose" so I'd pick the least bad one then struggle to include it meaningfully in my image scene. Then I'd forget it during execution. These days, LS is instantly "louse". A nice vivid image, easy to include in any scene, and none of my other pairs have images that look like a louse.

There are lots of helpful image lists out there, and Anki is a good tool for learning them.


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## JohnnyReggae (May 17, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> @JohnnyReggae :
> 
> There are lots of helpful image lists out there, and Anki is a good tool for learning them.


Thanks for the tip, I'm busy downloading it now after watching a short intro on how it works etc...


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## newtonbase (May 17, 2017)

I use images for corners and audio for edges too. If I were faster in execution I'd use audio only. DeeDubb did a nice thread on audio where he switches dodgy letters for more common sounds eg if the 2nd letter is H then switch it for NG so if the pair is PH the word could be Pang or Ping. It doesn't take long to get used to and with the right rhythm you can easily remember 6 to 8 sounds.


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## One Wheel (May 17, 2017)

JohnnyReggae said:


> Using Old Pochman I'm confused about "parity". I know that if I have an odd number of swaps that there will be parity due to the swap of pieces. I'm confused on how to deal with the "parity". This is what I assume with doing corners first followed by edges ... Do all of the corner swaps leaving the last, do all the edge swaps, followed by the last corner swap, followed by a U' and a lefty R-Perm (Ra) ([L U2' L' U2'] [L F'] [L' U' L U] [L F] L2' U) ? What happens if I wanted to do edges first ? Are my assumptions anywhere near correct ?



Presuming you're doing everything in a standard orientation, that R-perm needs a U' setup, and you finish with a U2. I think. At least that's what I do, but my success rate is so low that I could probably just apply half a dozen random moves when I have parity workout any meaningful change.


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## h2f (May 17, 2017)

JohnnyReggae said:


> So far I have tried letter pairs and trying to make up sentences and to be honest the memorisation is the hardest part of the blind solve for me.



I use letter pairs and audio pairs. I know it's common answer but practice makes it much much easier. In the beginng it's very hard and as you can see it's a hardest part of the solve (and the longest). If you practice enough it becomes much easier. For me it took around a year to come from 10 minutes solve to the first 1:30.


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## mitja (May 18, 2017)

JohnnyReggae said:


> Could you explain in a little more detail about putting magnets into the center pieces ? Or did you just add additional weight into the center's to equal the weight of 3 magnets ? If so, what did you use ? I'm intrigued but it and the weight distribution.


I added them for the weight. Thats the easiest. They get attached to the spring and screw. No need for glue and you can remove them if you don't like it.


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## JohnnyReggae (May 18, 2017)

mitja said:


> I added them for the weight. Thats the easiest. They get attached to the spring and screw. No need for glue and you can remove them if you don't like it.


Ahhh ok... makes sense now  Not a bad idea to balance out the weight.


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## mafergut (May 18, 2017)

Wow guys! You almost make me wanna get back to 3BLD again. But I know I'll never get even close to my fellow countrywoman Berta. Have you read about her breaking the ER and getting 3rd in the world? She's crazy good at BLD!

As I promised, after finishing an Ao1000 at OH and beating all my old PBs I started to learn the OLLs I was missing. I have been able to adapt for OH execution all the algs I was using for 2H and I have gone from about just half the OLLs (rest I'd go for 2-look) to around 50-something already. Of course some of them still need to stick better and will take some seconds to recall but, other than that I'm quite happy with my progress.

To be honest, I have not learned a lot of new things lately and I had almost forgotten how much I enjoy learning... maybe even more than getting faster. Of course, I hope I'll get faster (on average) at OH once all the OLLs sink in properly. I don't count big cubes as learning new things as, apart from the parity algs and little else, their are just same as 3x3 but bigger


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## newtonbase (May 18, 2017)

mafergut said:


> But I know I'll never get even close to my fellow countrywoman Berta. Have you read about her breaking the ER and getting 3rd in the world? She's crazy good at BLD!


She's my favourite blind solver. She keeps getting faster and always does well in competition. She's got a great chance of being World Champion.


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## mark49152 (May 18, 2017)

Berta is awesome, but @mafergut, you don't have to aim for her level to enjoy 3BLD! Just give it a go and have fun!


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## bubbagrub (May 18, 2017)

Hi Oldies, I've not posted on here for a while. I thought I'd give a quick update on my feet progress. I'm not quite sure why, but I've been focusing almost exclusively on practising feet in the past couple of months, and have made good progress. I'm reasonably hopeful that I'll qualify for Worlds...

My progress looks like this:







My PBs are:

single 55.91
mo3 1:06.73
ao5 1:08.23
ao12 1:14.43
ao50 1:21.70
ao100 1:23.52

It turns out floor surface makes a really big difference. Those times are on carpet, but I've also been practising on a stackmat on a wooden floor, in which case I'm definitely slower, but getting better.

Also, I think it's having a bit of a knock-on effect on my normal 3x3 solving. I've been at a 23ish plateau for ages now, and lookahead has definitely been my nemesis. Solving with feet forces you to go slower, so I'm definitely finding myself doing much more lookahead.

Anyway, in conclusion: feet is fun. Give it a go.


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## Logiqx (May 18, 2017)

Oldies. Watch this...






I'm very late commenting but you got amazing official times @Jason Green!

What do you reckon your global average is nowadays?


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## CLL Smooth (May 19, 2017)

Logiqx said:


> you got amazing official times @Jason Green!


You must have sold your soul to the devil for that 3x3 avg.


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## Jason Green (May 19, 2017)

Logiqx said:


> Oldies. Watch this...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks I was going to share that! I still have not edited my solves. I think globally I'm right around sub 18 barely. The thing is I hardly ever do "clean" averages, they just annoy me especially if it's late at night etc. So if I do 50 solves I might actually do 55-60 and throw out the other 5-10 where I did the wrong alg etc. I don't count it as an ao50 though. My thought is that I'm just not going to do that in comp so I don't care about those crap solves. Generally that has held true. Except the morning round at this comp where I got a 20.7 average. 



CLL Smooth said:


> You must have sold your soul to the devil for that 3x3 avg.


I wouldn't do that... But he does have low interest lease options now.


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## h2f (May 19, 2017)

@Jason Green nice to see you again meeting Anthony.


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## Logiqx (May 19, 2017)

Oooh. Nice session.

Shame i have to end it now!

# of solving: 30
# of penalty: 0
# of DNF: 0
Std Dev: 1.031
Best of all: 12.815
Worst of all: 19.118
Average of all: 15.860
Best Avg of 5: 14.568
Best Avg of 12: 15.392
Best Avg of 25: 15.685


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## JohnnyReggae (May 19, 2017)

A new 3x3 ao5 PB this afternoon. Quite surprised by it given that I've been averaging around 17 the whole day with all my solves. 140 timed solves with 17 sub-15's. 5 of them in my best ao12 of the day ... ao12 was within 2 10th's of a second of my current PB ... so a good little run for me 

Generated By csTimer on 2017-5-19
avg of 5: *13.48*

Time List:
1. 13.70 F2 L D2 B2 L U2 F2 L B2 L2 F2 B' U R' B' U F R U' R2 
2. (13.01) R L2 D2 B2 D2 F R2 D2 L2 R2 U' F2 U F U L' F R B 
3. (17.12) D' L2 F2 R2 B2 D2 L2 U R2 U' L2 F' L2 R B' F' L2 D F L2 
4. 13.49 F U R D' B2 D' F D L U B2 R2 U' R2 B2 R2 F2 U2 F' 
5. 13.24 D L2 F2 L2 U2 L2 F2 R2 B R2 U2 R' B2 R' U' F' D2 F2 L F2


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## Lid (May 19, 2017)

Finally ... *59.715* a5 4x4 ...
53.869, (53.829), 1:02.924, (1:10.106), 1:02.353

Also had a 58.5 and a 51.4, but the a12 was a few 1/10's over PB.


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## muchacho (May 19, 2017)

45000 timed solves reached, I have not improved much in last 5000, but at least some. This time finally learned the Antisune CMLL set (although I'm still like 2-3 seconds slower with it, and that's not counting mess ups), only Sune left for full CMLL.


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## h2f (May 19, 2017)

I've started doing regular practice of mbld. My goal is to get 10 cubes. First time for 2 years (omg) I did 7 cubes today. I wasnt expecting nothing great but it finished 3/4 (1 point). All mistakes were 3 cycles done wrong. It means I could memorize them well but failed in execution. In two cases it was lack of concetration. In one case - wrong direction of cycle. Quite good. Time 49 minutes.


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## mark49152 (May 19, 2017)

h2f said:


> I did 7 cubes today. I wasnt expecting nothing great but it finished 3/4 (1 point).


You mean 4/7? Nice job. I enjoy MBLD. It's nice to do big blind challenges without one small mistake costing total failure


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## h2f (May 19, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> You mean 4/7? Nice job. I enjoy MBLD. It's nice to do big blind challenges without one small mistake costing total failure


Yeah, 4/7.  I never liked mbld as much as 3bld or 4bld but now it seems more funny to me. I've memoed last 3 cubes in around 5-7 minutes and executing them first. All were fine. I must make 22 images for parity because my system I used so far doesnt make me feel comfortable.


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## newtonbase (May 19, 2017)

h2f said:


> I must make 22 images for parity because my system I used so far doesnt make me feel comfortable.


I've changed my method for parity now that I'm working on comms. Rather than using an alg I'm switching BU with LU in edge memo if I have an odd number of corners and solve the last corner OP style. It's a lot easier than I thought and I use it regardless if whether I'm doing a comms solve or not.


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## CLL Smooth (May 20, 2017)

My life has been incredibly stressful lately, for many reasons which I won't go into. Cubing is one of the few things that I do to unwind and just enjoy. I'll be attending my thirteenth competition tomorrow, and wonder why am I so stressed. So far I've gotten at least one PB every comp I've attended. The pressure mounts to keep improving those stats, but why do I care? If I don't break a comp PB tomorrow will future competitions be more enjoyable? If I do, will the pressure keep mounting? Why do I care? Hopefully I can just relax and have fun, but that usually only happens once a PB is broken. I'm curious how others feel about this. And why am I still practicing OH when there is no OH tomorrow?


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## Jason Green (May 20, 2017)

CLL Smooth said:


> My life has been incredibly stressful lately, for many reasons which I won't go into. Cubing is one of the few things that I do to unwind and just enjoy. I'll be attending my thirteenth competition tomorrow, and wonder why am I so stressed. So far I've gotten at least one PB every comp I've attended. The pressure mounts to keep improving those stats, but why do I care? If I don't break a comp PB tomorrow will future competitions be more enjoyable? If I do, will the pressure keep mounting? Why do I care? Hopefully I can just relax and have fun, but that usually only happens once a PB is broken. I'm curious how others feel about this. And why am I still practicing OH when there is no OH tomorrow?


I do get somewhat stressed but it's enjoyable to me. So far I'm new enough that it's almost guaranteed I'll improve something. Like my last comp I had made huge jumps in 4x4 and OH so I almost had to get a PB. I was more nervous about qualifying for Nationals. On 3x3 I really only had a 50-50 shot of beating my 18.2 average so I was lucky.

You might be right if I had a comp with no PBs but was still improving, maybe I wouldn't worry about the streak. If I ever get to a point where I feel plataeud at every event it might not be fun. But I haven't even started blind so I'm sure that will never happen.


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## h2f (May 20, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> I've changed my method for parity now that I'm working on comms. Rather than using an alg I'm switching BU with LU in edge memo if I have an odd number of corners and solve the last corner OP style. It's a lot easier than I thought and I use it regardless if whether I'm doing a comms solve or not.



I must try it. Normally I do corners first but I used to memorizing edges first and I do it in mbld. This leads to solving edges first in mbld and doing normal parity alg (D' L2 D M2 D' L2 D). For corners my system is ok because I used to use images with .Z which dont occur in my system for corners.


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## mark49152 (May 20, 2017)

CLL Smooth said:


> I'm curious how others feel about this.


At my last comp I felt I put more pressure on myself than I should have. I made a resolution to lighten up a bit in future. It's supposed to be 100% fun and cubing results don't matter at all in the bigger picture.


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## phreaker (May 20, 2017)

Working on bigger cubes...

I actually started timing 5x5 solves. I think I ALMOST can solve L2E, intuitive now, it is getting closer and closer, I only hit a parity I can't solve about one solve in 10 at most. (And I know 5x5 parity is much less frequent than that, I need to learn 5x5 parity for real.)

Time: 8:22. (Yes, I'm slow.) Using Freeslice. Really fun... but my TPS is slow, and I suspect I could do better in spots with making the centers in less moves. Though I will say my "look ahead" during centers is getting better and better... same with edges.

PB at 4x4 was set recently... Forget the number, but it was solidly sub 5m. (Realize I was 9m in January. So this is massive progress!)

Ironically, I can feel the impact on my 3x3 solving, because there's so much less to track and think about... things make more sense.

I have a 6x6 and 7x7 on order. (Wuhua and Wuji. I've been using the Qiyi series of cubes, and been happy.)

Magnetics: I have some nice magnets in stock. They really seem interesting. Need to do more research into how to use them best. I suspect I'll get some epoxy in so I have more time to get the magnets exactly where I want them on my 4x4.

We will see.

There's something about working with the large cubes... it seems to help my look ahead a bit on 3x3, there's something about the more pieces to track, and more going on that seems to help my brain. My 2H times, while not taken often, look encouraging. I need to decide if I want to transition to CFOP at some point, given that I use it for all my large cube work. (ZZ isn't quite working on 4x4+.)


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## One Wheel (May 20, 2017)

phreaker said:


> Working on bigger cubes...
> 
> Time: 8:22.



Keep up the good work! I think I was about that speed maybe a little over a year ago, and I'm trying to decide whether to go to a nearby comp on July 1st, where my long-shot goal would be to make the 2:45 soft cut. My best single time is 2:44.99 iirc, so it would be a long shot, but . . .


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## JanW (May 21, 2017)

phreaker said:


> I think I ALMOST can solve L2E, intuitive now, it is getting closer and closer, I only hit a parity I can't solve about one solve in 10 at most. (And I know 5x5 parity is much less frequent than that, I need to learn 5x5 parity for real.)


Huh? 5x5 parity less frequent than 1 in 10? Maybe I've misunderstood something. Probably have, since I didn't even know L2E was a thing I was supposed to learn... I know one parity alg (a crappy one, as it really is for 4x4) and I've been using that the few times I have solved my 5x5. But it seems that's fine, as apparently 5x5 also improves without practice.  Just did an Ao5 and improved with about 45 seconds from the last attempts I did sometime last year. Ao5 4:40, best single 3:54. Perhaps I should practice some more and aim for sub-3.

Edit: A few more solves. Ao5 4:07.37, Single 3:37.95.


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## JohnnyReggae (May 21, 2017)

phreaker said:


> Working on bigger cubes...
> 
> I actually started timing 5x5 solves. I think I ALMOST can solve L2E, intuitive now, it is getting closer and closer, I only hit a parity I can't solve about one solve in 10 at most. (And I know 5x5 parity is much less frequent than that, I need to learn 5x5 parity for real.)
> 
> ...


With 5x5 2LE I only use 2 algs. The first is to swap to middle tredge pieces with each other with the outer edges oriented. It is the big cube H perm with wide turns...

- swap middle edges (on top) 
0X0
X0X

Rw2 U2 Rw U2 Rw2 U2 Rw2 U2 Rw U2 Rw2

The other is the 4x4 parity alg which will flip a single middle edge. I use this one ..

Rw' U2 Lw F2 Lw' F2 Rw2 U2 Rw U2 Rw' U2 F2 Rw2 F2

I'd agree with your observation about bigger cubes helping look-ahead on smaller cubes. I really think that a good warm-up for a 3x3 competition would be to do a bunch of 4x4 or 5x5 solves just before competing. Pieces appear bigger and easier to find.


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## xyzzy (May 21, 2017)

JohnnyReggae said:


> It is the big cube H perm with wide turns...
> 
> - swap middle edges (on top)
> 0X0
> ...



Why not just Rw2 F2 U2 Rw2 U2 F2 Rw2?


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## JohnnyReggae (May 21, 2017)

xyzzy said:


> Why not just Rw2 F2 U2 Rw2 U2 F2 Rw2?


Didn't know about that one, and have been using the other way ever since I first learnt it for 5x5  

Your one is a lot quicker  Think I will swap over


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## mafergut (May 21, 2017)

JohnnyReggae said:


> Didn't know about that one, and have been using the other way ever since I first learnt it for 5x5
> 
> Your one is a lot quicker  Think I will swap over


I didn't even know an alg for that case, I would just do slice-flip-undo slice twice for it.


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## JanW (May 22, 2017)

I finally learned a proper parity alg for 5x5 and did a couple of dozen solves in in the last days. Ao12 down to 3:53 and Ao5 at 3:45. Sub-3 seems very doable with practice. Successful scrambles seem impossible, though. I've been trying to do the scrambles from csTimer, but only once did I ever end up with the cube looking like csTimer draws it. If I ever go to a comp, I hope I won't be asked to scramble 5x5...


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## mark49152 (May 22, 2017)

Finally got round to editing my 5x5 footage from Newcastle.


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## h2f (May 22, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> Finally got round to editing my 5x5 footage from Newcastle.



You are also on standaupmath's newest video from UK Champs.


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## mafergut (May 22, 2017)

@JanW: Sub 3min 5x5 is certainly doable. Then you will want sub 2:30, which is doable. Then you'll want sub 2:00... that's harder, at least at our age but as @mark49152 (and also @Selkie) demonstrate it is possible. Congrats @mark49152 by the way! I've traveled that same path some months ago and my long averages are now stuck somewhere around sub 2:45 but not yet sub 2:30. Well, the fact I have been practising almost only OH lately might have something to do with lack of 5x5 progress, or so I hope.

And talking about OH, just a couple OLLs to go for full 1-look but still quite slow with recall of some cases and making some mistakes in execution. My last Ao100 is promising, around 35.50 (best Ao50 34.76). That's more than 2.5 seconds of improvement thanks to 1-look OLL but I won't count them as PBs 'cos I still need to stop some solves if I just can't recall the alg or delete them because I executed the wrong one, maybe a 10% of the time.

What I am counting is a new PB Ao5 of 31.60, as it was a legit streak of 5 solves. Got plenty of nice Ao12s as well in the 33-35 range but I'm pretty sure none of them was clean.


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## mark49152 (May 22, 2017)

mafergut said:


> Then you'll want sub 2:00... that's harder, at least at our age but as @mark49152 (and also @Selkie) demonstrate it is possible. Congrats @mark49152 by the way!


Thanks - not quite demonstrated yet though, as my average was 2:00.55, half a second short of qualifying for Worlds! If only I had learned a proper big cube U perm


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## newtonbase (May 23, 2017)

h2f said:


> You are also on standaupmath's newest video from UK Champs.


Most of the UK oldies are on there but I didn't see @Logiqx or myself.


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## h2f (May 23, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> Most of the UK oldies are on there but I didn't see @Logiqx or myself.



Mhm. Strange.


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## JohnnyReggae (May 23, 2017)

mafergut said:


> @JanW: Sub 3min 5x5 is certainly doable. Then you will want sub 2:30, which is doable. Then you'll want sub 2:00... that's harder
> 
> .......
> 
> And talking about OH, just a couple OLLs to go for full 1-look but still quite slow with recall of some cases and making some mistakes in execution.


I'm still struggling to get sub-3, with a PB of 2:34 ... Then again if I practiced more 5x5 I may find my times getting better 

Well done on the OH OLL ... I'm probably only through about half of them and feeling frustrated with doing 2Look OLL most of the time. Although my best ao100 is sitting at 31.51 even with having to do 2Look OLL a lot of the time. I've found my biggest time improvement lately has come from doing cross better and doing more look-ahead on F2L.


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## Fyzzna (May 23, 2017)

Today I graduated from the Race to Sub-25 

Also thought I'd update my current PBs:
single: 14.20, ao5: 18.43, ao12: 19.73, ao50: 21.05


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## h2f (May 23, 2017)

Fyzzna said:


> Today I graduated from the Race to Sub-25
> 
> Also thought I'd update my current PBs:
> single: 14.20, ao5: 18.43, ao12: 19.73, ao50: 21.05



Nice. Next step - go to the comps.


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## phreaker (May 24, 2017)

Work has taken more of my time recently.. not as much cubing.

OTOH, I've shifted to 4x4 -> 6x6 cubes. I can't wait for my new 6x6 and 7x7. My shengshou 6x6 is a bit, fragile, for my taste.


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## mitja (May 24, 2017)

Can you guys tell me what is your opinion about 6x6 weishi and wuhua, maybe G6. I want to change my yuxin and wander which one should I order.


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## JohnnyReggae (May 24, 2017)

mitja said:


> Can you guys tell me what is your opinion about 6x6 weishi and wuhua, maybe G6. I want to change my yuxin and wander which one should I order.


I went with the QiYi WuHua ... I also have a Moyu Aoshi, but for me the QiYi is much ... much better. Don't have the other 2 you mentioned, but I think that QiYi have done a great job with their larger cubes.


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## h2f (May 24, 2017)

JohnnyReggae said:


> I went with the QiYi WuHua ... I also have a Moyu Aoshi, but for me the QiYi is much ... much better. Don't have the other 2 you mentioned, but I think that QiYi have done a great job with their larger cubes.



Same me. My Wuhua out of box was a little crappy. But now it's ok. I also had in hands Wuhua with spring swap (I dont remember what kind of springs it was) and it felt much better.


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## Lid (May 25, 2017)

All the 4x4 practice pays of so far ... sub1 not too far away now:
1:03.590, 1:04.109, 1:04.294, 1:00.847, 1:00.620, 1:05.753, {58.980, 58.932, (1:12.514), (54.782), 1:00.315}, 1:03.381
= *1:02.082 *a12 = -0.940
{} = *59.409* a5 also PB



Spoiler: Scambles etc...



Average of 12: 1:02.082
1. 1:03.590 U B2 r2 U' f2 L' u F2 r R' B2 D f U2 f r' u' U D' f' B' u2 F' U' L2 U2 L2 f U2 u D' R U B F2 f' u U' B R
2. 1:04.109 R' B' F f D B2 F' f D u' R2 D' F2 L' U F' u R2 r' F' B' f r2 D' B D r' D' L2 f B2 D2 f' L2 U' D2 u' r' f' B'
3. 1:04.294 L' B' u2 U2 R2 U L' r F2 r2 F2 r D r' B2 F2 R2 L D R u2 R' f D r F' r' F R2 U' L r' F' L2 U2 R' F2 R' D r'
4. 1:00.847 U' f' R' U F2 D2 L D2 u' U' F' u' r F' L' r' f' U2 u' L2 R2 u2 B' L2 F2 D' u2 B2 R f' r' R2 f' R' r' L' F' L F' D2
5. 1:00.620 U2 L' r' U' f2 U D2 B' U' u2 F2 D' L2 f' L2 R2 u' B' R D' r2 f' L D2 R L B2 r L' f L' u' U2 F' f' R u' r' B' f'
6. 1:05.753 f' R D' u' L U' F B D2 B U' L2 u' r F D u' R' f' U f D2 L' f2 u' F f L' F U2 f B2 L B' R D' F2 f' B2 U'
7. 58.980 R u' R r L' B r' L2 u2 U2 r2 D2 B2 D2 u' L2 D' F f U2 u2 D2 f' u U2 L2 r B D r2 U2 f' B2 u F f' L' R r D
8. 58.932 F2 U2 L' u' U2 B' R D B R2 D R2 F2 u' F' B u r U' L2 R2 F2 f' u2 L f2 r' B2 f' U2 D u2 R2 B2 D' U B' r' f' r'
9. (1:12.514) U L' B f L2 B' L B2 f F u' F2 R2 F' u' D' U' R2 U R2 r' L D' L B' u' R2 f2 r2 f2 B' R u f2 R2 B D2 f U2 r'
10. (54.782) L R u L2 D2 B2 r L' D2 f2 B2 r B R2 U2 D B' u F2 U' r D2 L' r B2 D2 R' F' f' L2 U2 r' B R f' U' R F f R
11. 1:00.315 F2 u' F' U u' r' u' f' B2 D' r D U' B L' U' u' B R2 u2 L' U2 u D' L' f R f L2 U' R' B u D2 B' L2 u f2 u' D
12. 1:03.381 r B2 r U2 B2 D2 F2 f2 L f B' L2 u' B2 D U u2 F' U R' D r2 u B' f2 U' f F' U2 B' D2 r D2 R2 F r' R B2 R2 U


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## Bart Van Eynde (May 26, 2017)

Finally went sub 60 on a50 and a100 (was my next goal). Also seem to go sub 50 more often then before. Guess i just need to practice allot more. So next goal (let's get cocky) is sub 45 on a5 and a12. Still need allot of progress on my F2L


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## mitja (May 26, 2017)

h2f said:


> Same me. My Wuhua out of box was a little crappy. But now it's ok. I also had in hands Wuhua with spring swap (I dont remember what kind of springs it was) and it felt much better.


Thanks, I ordered Wuhua today, lets see how it is.


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## Logiqx (May 26, 2017)

A few solves on video...


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## mafergut (May 27, 2017)

mitja said:


> Thanks, I ordered Wuhua today, lets see how it is.


Sorry to be a bit late for advice but I have both the Wuhua and Yuxin and I prefer the Yuxin... it's my only non-Wu main of all the biggies as I use the WuQue, WuShuang and WuJi. I think it is because of the size (I like smaller puzzles).

Regarding my first impressions on the GTS2M, which arrived like 3-4 days ago, I have to say I like it a lot but not sure I like it more than the Valk3 without magnets. It's more stable than the GTS2, that's for sure, and it's easier to turn accurately but it's also a bit less fluid than the GTS2 so algs are slower but I mess up less frequently. As a result I get less super-good times but much more consistent ones. I got a new PB Ao50 of 17.79 but that's just 0.02 of a second better than what I got one week ago with the Valk3. Not crazy good but with 90% solves sub-20. Best solve for now with the GTS2 is a 13.02 full step (could have been all time PB had I been lucky enough to get a PLL skip on that solve).


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## muchacho (May 27, 2017)

Mo100 PB: 18.771 (it was 18.872 from 7 weeks ago)

It was going slightly better than that, 85 solves at 18.5 until I DNF one


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## h2f (May 27, 2017)

@muchacho - wow.

I took more serious mbld practice. Today 6/11 in 58:20. My biggest attempt so far and the best prepared but 1 point only. I also work on 3x3 and being sub17.


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## mark49152 (May 27, 2017)

MBLD practice for me too this week. I find I struggle to improve at multiple BLD events simultaneously. If I work on MBLD I get worse at 4BLD and 3BLD, etc.


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## h2f (May 27, 2017)

Nice @mark49152.


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## moralsh (May 27, 2017)

Wow, nice one @mark49152 and @muchacho!

I can't find motivation myself to do multi and is by far my worst BLD event, I've been practicing a bit of 4 and 5BLD though. I'd like to shave like 25% of my official times for worlds, let's hope I can keep practicing


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## Selkie (May 27, 2017)

A much belated hello to my fellow older cubing brethren. Apologies I have not been as active recently. Life and work have been manic. Still cubing although having to fit it around work.

Some great progress all. Well done @mark49152 at taking >40s 2nd place at 5x5. Awesome stuff matey.

Been doing quite a bit of 6x6 practice and this PB single and mean gives me hope for the aggressive mean cut at London Open in July:-

3:33.93, 3:26.02, 3:09.49 = 3:23.15

Last comp was December in Birmingham so really looking forward to London.


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## mark49152 (May 27, 2017)

I have no idea how you can solve 6x6 that fast Chris. We're not far apart on 4x4 and 5x5 but I struggle to get under 6 minutes on 6x6. Obviously I don't practise it enough, but my improvement is so slow that it's not a good enough return on my time and I lose motivation.


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## Selkie (May 27, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> I have no idea how you can solve 6x6 that fast Chris. We're not far apart on 4x4 and 5x5 but I struggle to get under 6 minutes on 6x6. Obviously I don't practise it enough, but my improvement is so slow that it's not a good enough return on my time and I lose motivation.



Probably practice more than anything my friend. Generally 5x5 times are double of 4x4 times and 6x6 double of 5x5 times. Think @Logiqx did some analysis at some stage. I have well and truly plateaued on 4 and 5 and quite frustratingly at globally 1:02 for 4x4 and 2:02 for 5x5. I should practice more.

My 6x6 times have come on a lot recently. I tend to practice 6x6 on the train on the two days a week I spend in London commuting from Oxfordshire where I stay with family so the 4 or so hours a week is really paying off. I think I am about ~3:40 globally so really trying to push myself to hopefully make the 3:30 mean cut at London Open.

The 3:09.xy was a really lucky solve. I spotted three edges with three of four already paired whilst on last 2 centes and managed to preserve them Yau style. That together with no parities, an easy WV case to force OLL skip and U Perm made it PB by over 5 seconds.

I am not too worried by the 2:10 average cut for 5x5 at London but really should be concentrating on some 4x4 too with the 1:00 cut. Looking forward to seeing you good gentlemen, its been far too long though really looking forward to seeing @Logiqx for a pint and some solves next Wednesday after work in London.


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## mark49152 (May 27, 2017)

Yeah I saw Mike's analysis and when I started practising 6x6 seriously I set my target as a bit over double my 5x5 global. I got nowhere close to that though . 3:40 is impressive and proportionally much stronger than your 4x4 or 5x5.


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## One Wheel (May 28, 2017)

Selkie said:


> Probably practice more than anything my friend. Generally 5x5 times are double of 4x4 times and 6x6 double of 5x5 times.



I've noticed my big cube pb singles follow that curve pretty well, with 7x7 being a bit of an outlier: roughly 1:23/2:45/5:27/8:51. I don't do enough solves to fairly state a global average, because by the time I do 100 solves or more on a big cube my times will have improved. Instead I use the times below which I am satisfied that, while it may not be a pb, it's not bad. In general that's about the median of the last couple of week's solves. Those figures are at 1:45/3:18/6:00/9:45 currently. Not sure what to make of that. Am I just slightly less bad at bigger cubes? Higher standards for bigger cubes? I don't know.


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## pglewis (May 28, 2017)

I've been poking my head in regularly to follow progress but not much news to report here. Crunch time with work which has cut into my practice time severely, but I'm still hovering ~30 on 3x3 after kicking the dirt of the cleats today. 

Next comp in a week. My official 3x3 is 44.90/48.36 and it's not putting much pressure on myself to want to see a sub 40 average even without much recent practice. Getting a sub 30 single in there would be nice but I'm at a good "don't care" stage... official 20s can wait until next time, I get tons of them at home it's all a moving target anyway. Will have to relearn Varasano/Ortega for 2x2 because that's what we all do every comp. This'll be my 4x4 debut so a guaranteed PB there. Soft cut is 2:00 so I could even get an average if lightning strikes. Plan to do coffee shop distraction practice all week to get in shape.


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## Logiqx (May 28, 2017)

Selkie said:


> Looking forward to seeing you good gentlemen, its been far too long though really looking forward to seeing @Logiqx for a pint and some solves next Wednesday after work in London.



Likewise. 



One Wheel said:


> I've noticed my big cube pb singles follow that curve pretty well, with 7x7 being a bit of an outlier: roughly 1:23/2:45/5:27/8:51.



That's about right... 7x7x7 should be around 1.6x of your 6x6x6.

I haven't touched a big cube (4x4x4 upwards) in almost 3 months (Peterborough). I tried some timed 4x4x4 solves last week and I have slowed down somewhat; averaging ~1:17 instead of ~1:12. I think I'll ignore 5x5x5 upwards leading up to London and Paris as I don't have much time to practice between now and those comps. I also haven't done any small puzzles in recent months (2x2x2, Pyra, Skewb) so I'll try to get back to my times from February / March, making sure I don't neglect 3x3 which is my focus nowadays. I've also been neglecting to do OH practice or timing but I think I'm probably sub-30, albeit somewhat inconsistent.

I lost motivation to practice after the last competition but my recent 3x3x3 improvement is encouraging. My last 1000 timed solves average ~16.8 and last 500 timed solves average ~16.6. Working towards sub-16...


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## muchacho (May 28, 2017)

Mo100 PB: 18.703 ...not much improvement from yesterday (18.771) but nice to have 2 consecutive good days.

I bought a Fisher, Windmill and Axis cubes, which is the easiest of the first two?


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## h2f (May 28, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> MBLD practice for me too this week. I find I struggle to improve at multiple BLD events simultaneously. If I work on MBLD I get worse at 4BLD and 3BLD, etc.



I guess you do an anlysis of the attempt, Mark. I just get a one made by Kamil P. and it's so much precise that I can see all the things I can improve and check in next attempt. Kamil mentioned me that it's very important and helpfull and he should do it earlier. I guess 13/14 in 55:24 it's your new PB. Time to change a signature.


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## newtonbase (May 28, 2017)

muchacho said:


> Mo100 PB: 18.703 ...not much improvement from yesterday (18.771) but nice to have 2 consecutive good days.
> 
> I bought a Fisher, Windmill and Axis cubes, which is the easiest of the first two?
> 
> View attachment 8004


Only got the Fisher but it's pretty easy and fun. You need an alg for an edge pointing up and a couple of centre twisting algs. I have them written down somewhere if you want?


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## muchacho (May 28, 2017)

Thanks, but don't worry, I don't know when I will try, and maybe I'll resign before needing those algs, I'll search them if needed.


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## mark49152 (May 28, 2017)

h2f said:


> I guess you do an anlysis of the attempt, Mark. I just get a one made by Kamil P. and it's so much precise that I can see all the things I can improve and check in next attempt. Kamil mentioned me that it's very important and helpfull and he should do it earlier. I guess 13/14 in 55:24 it's your new PB. Time to change a signature.


Yes I video each attempt and analyse my time splits for first memo, full review and light review of each block, as well as execution. From that I calculate averages per phase and per cube. It helps me plan time management, set targets for more cubes, and tweak my system.

13/14 55:24 is PB on time, and the most cubes I have completed within an hour. I have attempted 16 but ran over the time limit and only got 11 correct.


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## mafergut (May 28, 2017)

muchacho said:


> Mo100 PB: 18.703 ...not much improvement from yesterday (18.771) but nice to have 2 consecutive good days.
> 
> I bought a Fisher, Windmill and Axis cubes, which is the easiest of the first two?
> 
> View attachment 8004


Nice cubes. All of them are easy enough to solve. I have the axis and a crazy yileng, which is quite similar to the windmill and fisher.


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## h2f (May 28, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> Yes I video each attempt and analyse my time splits for first memo, full review and light review of each block, as well as execution. From that I calculate averages per phase and per cube. It helps me plan time management, set targets for more cubes, and tweak my system.
> 
> 13/14 55:24 is PB on time, and the most cubes I have completed within an hour. I have attempted 16 but ran over the time limit and only got 11 correct.



I've analyzed your attempt and it seems you do as me (or I do as you) in memo: cubes 1-4, next 5-8etc... I looked through Shivam's, Kamil's and Mark's video and they go: 12, 12, 34, 34, 56, 56, 78, 78, 1-8. So they do it in pairst till they get block of 8. Next they skip to new block of 8. It looks like they can memo and review cubes faster thanks to that scheme.


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## mark49152 (May 28, 2017)

h2f said:


> I've analyzed your attempt and it seems you do as me (or I do as you) in memo: cubes 1-4, next 5-8etc... I looked through Shivam's, Kamil's and Mark's video and they go: 12, 12, 34, 34, 56, 56, 78, 78, 1-8. So they do it in pairst till they get block of 8. Next they skip to new block of 8. It looks like they can memo and review cubes faster thanks to that scheme.


Maybe, I don't know. I figure what matters is how many times you review each cube and how long each takes, and the order is not so important unless it aids fewer or faster reviews, or more reliable memo.

I used to do blocks of 2 until I got to 10 cubes then started doing blocks of 4 instead because I was getting better results with a longer interval before reviewing each cube. But maybe that is only because I'm slower.

My system is this: memo one block; then review that block checking the memo against the cube again. If it's not the first block, then in between memo and review I will check my recall of the previous block (you see me pointing at the cubes). So in between each check of a cube, I am checking 7 other cubes. I like to have that longer interval because it seems a better test of whether the memo has stuck.


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## h2f (May 29, 2017)

@mark49152 Thanks. I'll check few ideas to see how they go.


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## Lid (May 29, 2017)

Short comp report (in event+round order) ...
Friday:
6x6: Three single PBs in row ... mean 4:18 / 4:02 single :: 2x PB
7x7: Didn't expect too much here ... mean 6:38 / 5:47 single
Saturday:
2x2: 4.79 a5 = PB, weeee sub5 
3x3: 16.02 a5, PB by 0.57
4x4: 1:05.67 a5 & 58.53 single :: 2x PB :: parities: O,OP,P,P,P
Pyra: 9.79 a5 PB ... beats last comp by 0.07, had done 0 solves since then 
Skewb: what? (No solves since last comp here either)
OH: OK not more, 28.45 avg
Sunday:
Mega: bad start good ending! 1:49.55 a5 PB by 8s+ 
Sq1: PB single & avg, expected more thou ... 18.15/20.45
2x2 2nd rnd: harder scambles, none had a made block, just sub6 avg

Events that I skipped: 5x5,Clock,FMC,BLDs,feet

Other older cubers, Mats B got 10/10 MBLD & a 5BLD mean of 3! (16:29 best 14:31)

Next comp? No clue ...
Got myself two new X-man VOLT Sq-1 to play with thou.


----------



## muchacho (May 30, 2017)

Improved Mo100 PB a bit, now 18.540 

But I still suck with antisune cases 



Spoiler



45829 30-may-2017 12:55:02 00:17.680 R2 L2 B2 D' U2 F2 R2 D' F2 U' R' L' U' F D' B U' F D2 U2
45828 30-may-2017 12:53:56 00:17.048 B2 D2 F2 L2 U' R2 U' F2 U2 B2 U' F' L F' L B' F2 R D' F' U'
45827 30-may-2017 12:53:16 00:20.556 B2 R2 U' L2 U2 L2 D F2 R2 B2 L2 F' U2 B' D' R D2 B D' L' F D'
45826 30-may-2017 12:52:38 00:17.864 D2 B2 U' B2 F2 L2 U' L2 D F2 L' D U' R2 D R B L D2 U2
45825 30-may-2017 12:51:59 00:15.319 B2 R2 U R2 U R2 U' L2 D2 B2 D2 L' F D2 R' F2 U' B F2 D' B2 U'
45824 30-may-2017 12:51:17 00:18.727 D R2 D' F2 D' B2 F2 D' B2 D' L2 F L' B2 L2 F2 U R' D2 B' F2
45823 30-may-2017 12:50:38 00:15.895 U' R2 L2 D' L2 U B2 R2 U L2 D R' B' U' L D2 B2 L2 B L F2 U
45822 30-may-2017 12:50:02 00:14.046 D2 F2 R2 D' R2 F2 U2 B2 U L2 U2 L' B2 R' B' L2 B' D2 R' B
45821 30-may-2017 12:49:21 00:19.895 D B2 D2 U' R2 D F2 U' L2 F2 L B' D' U2 R' L' B R' D2 R'
45820 30-may-2017 12:48:10 00:19.151 D F2 U R2 B2 F2 D L2 U2 B2 U' B' U F D2 F2 U' L' D2 F D U'
45819 30-may-2017 12:47:33 00:16.814 R2 U2 B2 L2 D2 U F2 L2 F2 L2 U L' F' D2 U' R' D U2 B' U L'
45818 30-may-2017 12:46:52 00:18.127 U' B2 D B2 U2 F2 U' R2 D F2 U2 B F2 L' D2 U2 B2 D2 F' L2
45817 30-may-2017 12:46:02 00:26.870 F2 U B2 F2 D' U2 R2 L2 B2 D L2 B R' L B' F2 L2 F' D' B' D
45816 30-may-2017 12:45:28 00:14.774 D2 L2 U2 R2 U B2 R2 D L2 D U R D2 B2 L' U' L' B F R' F' U2
45815 30-may-2017 12:44:46 00:18.810 D B2 D F2 U' B2 D2 B2 L2 U' R' B2 L2 U2 B' L' B' R F R'
45814 30-may-2017 12:44:03 00:16.160 L2 D' B2 D2 U' R2 B2 D L2 B2 D' F' D' R' U B' F' L2 U L2 F L'
45813 30-may-2017 12:43:25 00:14.728 B2 D' F2 R2 B2 F2 D' F2 U2 F2 U' B' F D R B' L2 B R' L B
45812 30-may-2017 12:42:49 00:17.095 R2 U2 B2 D F2 D' B2 R2 D2 R2 D2 L' B U' L U2 F' L2 U F' R D2
45811 30-may-2017 12:41:56 00:30.037 B2 D2 R2 U F2 U' L2 F2 R2 L2 U2 L' B2 D2 F' R2 D' U L' F L'
45810 30-may-2017 12:41:11 00:18.438 U2 F2 R2 B2 D R2 L2 F2 D U2 R F U' B' R' B L F' L U2 L
45809 30-may-2017 12:40:29 00:18.910 F2 R2 U' B2 U L2 D' L2 D2 F2 U2 F L D' U R2 D' F' U L D U2
45808 30-may-2017 12:39:51 00:17.926 D' F2 U R2 F2 D2 R2 F2 D' R2 U R' U' F L U R' U' L B U
45807 30-may-2017 12:39:10 00:17.656 L2 U' B2 F2 D' R2 U2 B2 F2 U' B R' U R U' L B' F' U2 B' U'
45806 30-may-2017 12:38:33 00:17.743 B2 U' L2 D2 U R2 B2 F2 U' F2 U' R' F2 R2 L' U2 F2 U R' B' L2
45805 30-may-2017 12:37:59 00:17.327 F2 L2 D R2 F2 D2 B2 D' R2 D2 B2 L F D' B' F' R' F2 L
45804 30-may-2017 12:37:18 00:19.183 L2 B2 D R2 D B2 D' R2 U R2 U2 B' F2 U R2 U R' D' B R L' U'
45803 30-may-2017 12:36:40 00:18.854 R2 F2 R2 F2 U' F2 D U2 R2 D' U' L' B F2 R D R L F' U2 F D'
45802 30-may-2017 12:35:57 00:19.231 F2 D' B2 L2 D' L2 U' R2 D U2 R B' L' U' R' D R' U L D2 U2
45801 30-may-2017 12:34:48 00:17.574 U' F2 U B2 L2 B2 U F2 D2 R' D2 B' U2 R' B2 U L' D2 F'
45800 30-may-2017 12:34:10 00:19.767 R2 U R2 D' B2 D' F2 L2 U F2 R2 F' R' D U' L2 F2 L F D' F'
45799 30-may-2017 12:33:38 00:15.032 R2 D' L2 F2 R2 D' L2 F2 D2 L2 U2 F' U L2 B R' U2 F' R2 U2 B2
45798 30-may-2017 12:33:02 00:19.031 R2 L2 D2 L2 U' F2 U F2 D2 L2 U2 B' D2 R' U' B R' U' R' B' R U'
45797 30-may-2017 12:32:22 00:18.088 F2 R2 D' L2 D F2 D L2 U2 L2 U R' U2 L' B' F' D R D2 L' D
45796 30-may-2017 12:31:41 00:17.808 L2 D2 B2 U F2 U F2 L2 F2 D L D U2 F L' B' D' U R F2
45795 30-may-2017 12:31:00 00:18.037 U2 L2 U F2 U' R2 U B2 U2 F2 R F' R' F L U R F D R2 L U2
45794 30-may-2017 12:30:20 00:17.214 R2 D' R2 F2 D' L2 U2 F2 D' R2 D' F' R B2 U' F2 D' B2 R U2 B F2
45793 30-may-2017 12:29:44 00:16.023 R2 D F2 U B2 L2 B2 D' F2 D' U' F D R L D F' R' D2 R2 D'
45792 30-may-2017 12:29:00 00:23.495 F2 R2 U2 F2 L2 D' B2 D' R2 D' U R B' U' F L D2 R2 L' B U2 R
45791 30-may-2017 12:28:21 00:14.168 L2 F2 D B2 D' L2 U' R2 F2 D' U R D U2 F L2 D' F L F R D
45790 30-may-2017 12:27:45 00:16.286 R2 U2 R2 D' B2 D2 F2 R2 U' B2 U B' U2 R' B R D B' L2 B2 D2 U'
45789 30-may-2017 12:27:08 00:14.798 B2 R2 U R2 F2 D F2 D' U2 B2 D R B D2 F' U F L D' R L' U
45788 30-may-2017 12:26:31 00:19.407 D' L2 F2 L2 B2 U2 B2 D U2 B2 F2 R U B' L' F' R B U' B2 D U
45787 30-may-2017 12:25:50 00:20.478 D2 R2 U' L2 U2 F2 D2 L2 U' L2 U' R L B F D B' R F2 D2 U
45786 30-may-2017 12:25:09 00:16.822 U B2 R2 U' L2 D R2 D' F2 D2 R' D' L' D2 F L' D2 U L2 F' R2 U2
45785 30-may-2017 12:24:31 00:17.792 L2 U R2 U2 B2 D' R2 U2 L2 U' R' L' U R B R U' F' L B2 U'
45784 30-may-2017 12:23:47 00:19.966 D2 L2 U L2 D R2 F2 R2 U' F' D2 U' L' D R F D2 F2 R' U'
45783 30-may-2017 12:23:09 00:13.807 D U2 B2 D B2 L2 D R2 F2 L2 D2 R F' L D F2 U R' F U' B U
45782 30-may-2017 12:22:30 00:17.584 F2 U2 B2 F2 U' L2 B2 D' B2 D U' L' F D L B' F' D2 F' R2 F'
45781 30-may-2017 12:21:45 00:21.663 F2 D L2 U2 L2 B2 L2 D' B2 L2 U F' D B' D' F' D U F L
45780 30-may-2017 12:20:45 00:36.691 D' R2 B2 L2 F2 D U F2 L2 F2 U2 F' R D2 B2 R U B' R U2 F L
45779 30-may-2017 11:01:49 00:16.839 U F2 U' B2 U2 B2 U' F2 U' F2 D F R2 D' R U' B F2 D' R' F' D2
45778 30-may-2017 11:01:12 00:16.176 U2 B2 R2 D' L2 U R2 B2 D' B2 D2 B' F2 L F R2 B U2 L B' L2 U'
45777 30-may-2017 11:00:28 00:23.727 D2 R2 L2 F2 D F2 U2 L2 U L2 U2 L' U R L B F2 U L' B2 F' U2
45776 30-may-2017 10:59:45 00:16.807 F2 D' B2 D B2 D2 L2 U R2 F2 R D' F2 U' F' L U2 R2 F D' U'
45775 30-may-2017 10:59:02 00:19.559 U F2 L2 D U2 L2 U' L2 U' R2 U R B' R' L D' F R D' U R U2
45774 30-may-2017 10:58:25 00:19.262 U' B2 R2 B2 U R2 B2 D B2 L2 D2 F B2 L U' R' F U L2 F' D2
45773 30-may-2017 10:57:50 00:15.264 L2 D2 B2 U' F2 U' B2 R2 B2 R2 D2 L' U2 F' R B' R L2 B2 L F' D'
45772 30-may-2017 10:57:09 00:17.150 U R2 L2 U' L2 F2 L2 D2 L2 D' U2 R' D F' D' U' B D F2 U' R2 U'
45771 30-may-2017 10:56:29 00:22.511 F2 R2 U2 L2 D2 U' L2 B2 D' F2 D L' F2 L2 U' B2 L U' B' U' L
45770 30-may-2017 10:55:47 00:23.160 U R2 D2 B2 D2 U' B2 R2 B2 R2 D' F L2 U' R2 D L F' R D' L'
45769 30-may-2017 10:55:04 00:18.072 U' B2 U' R2 U R2 F2 L2 D' L2 U2 L' B2 D' B' U2 F' R2 L' U' R'
45768 30-may-2017 10:54:25 00:19.038 L2 U2 R2 U2 B2 U' L2 B2 L2 U' F2 L' D F2 U' B U2 F' D2 U L
45767 30-may-2017 10:53:48 00:19.161 L2 D F2 U B2 R2 U2 B2 U2 R' B' U B L' D2 B' F' R F2 U
45766 30-may-2017 10:53:11 00:16.591 L2 U2 L2 B2 U R2 L2 B2 U2 L2 U2 B' L U' L' B' U2 F R' L' D'
45765 30-may-2017 10:52:00 00:18.735 D R2 L2 B2 D' U L2 U R2 D B2 R U R2 D' B L D2 R' D' B'
45764 30-may-2017 10:51:22 00:17.685 B2 L2 B2 U' R2 D B2 D F2 D U' L' D B2 L2 D F D2 L D2 L U2
45763 30-may-2017 10:50:38 00:18.221 L2 F2 R2 U2 F2 D2 B2 R2 U L2 U2 R' B' L D2 R F2 D2 R D' F'
45762 30-may-2017 10:50:00 00:17.215 U' L2 U2 R2 D' F2 U R2 B2 F2 D R' B' U' B' L2 F' L2 F' R' U'
45761 30-may-2017 10:49:22 00:17.253 D2 F2 D R2 D L2 D' L2 U2 R2 D2 F' L' U F R' D' F2 D2 L2 U
45760 30-may-2017 10:48:44 00:16.560 D' L2 F2 D' R2 D' R2 L2 D' R2 D B' U R2 B U2 R' B' L F' U2
45759 30-may-2017 10:48:02 00:22.047 D' R2 B2 U R2 F2 D' B2 R2 F2 D2 F' L2 D2 L' U B2 F' R F2 R
45758 30-may-2017 10:47:25 00:19.310 B2 R2 B2 R2 U' R2 D2 L2 F2 D2 U' F R B' U L' U' F R' L2 B2 U
45757 30-may-2017 10:46:45 00:20.221 B2 L2 D2 F2 U' B2 U2 L2 U F2 U' F' R2 F2 D' R2 U2 R2 L F D2
45756 30-may-2017 10:46:10 00:15.607 F2 L2 B2 R2 L2 D2 U R2 U L2 U' B' F L U' B2 D' F' L F2 R U'
45755 30-may-2017 10:45:28 00:23.247 U' R2 D2 U R2 B2 R2 L2 U B2 U2 F L' F2 U R D L' D' L D'
45754 30-may-2017 10:44:51 00:16.371 D' R2 U2 L2 U2 B2 U' R2 U' B2 L2 B' R' U2 F U2 B2 R' B2 L' U B2
45753 30-may-2017 10:44:05 00:15.512 D2 L2 B2 U2 F2 U L2 D' L2 F2 L2 B D R' F D2 L2 F2 L' F' D' U'
45752 30-may-2017 10:43:26 00:21.687 D' L2 D R2 D F2 D' F2 D2 F2 U' F' R D' U L D' B D2 F2 R2 U'
45751 30-may-2017 10:42:51 00:15.511 R2 D' B2 R2 U2 L2 U R2 B2 U2 F2 L D B U2 R' F U F' D'
45750 30-may-2017 10:42:07 00:24.126 L2 B2 F2 U2 F2 U' L2 U F2 D' U' F U' L B D R L2 D2 U2 F2
45749 30-may-2017 10:41:26 00:20.487 D B2 D B2 D F2 R2 U B2 U2 F2 L D2 L2 F' U' R U2 L U2 L' D'
45748 30-may-2017 10:40:46 00:17.119 D' F2 R2 B2 D2 B2 L2 D2 L2 U2 R' D2 B' D' U B2 F' R2 D R' B'
45747 30-may-2017 10:40:04 00:21.465 F2 D U L2 F2 L2 B2 D2 U' F2 L2 B' U F2 D U2 R' L' U' B2 U
45746 30-may-2017 10:39:26 00:17.421 D R2 D' B2 R2 B2 R2 F2 U2 B2 D' B L B' L2 B R L F' D L2 U
45745 30-may-2017 10:38:52 00:16.262 F2 D2 R2 U2 F2 L2 U' B2 U F2 L2 F' D U L B' D U2 B R2 U2
45744 30-may-2017 10:38:09 00:19.312 D F2 L2 F2 U' R2 D2 R2 U' F2 D F D2 U' F U' F2 U R L2 D
45743 30-may-2017 10:37:26 00:19.088 U R2 U' B2 D R2 D B2 D R' F' D' U' R2 D2 U2 F R B U'
45742 29-may-2017 18:30:04 00:18.399 D U R2 U' R2 F2 R2 U2 R2 D' B2 L' D2 U F2 L2 U R' B R2
45741 29-may-2017 18:29:15 00:24.558 U F2 D2 R2 L2 D' R2 U R2 B2 D L B' D2 R2 D R L' B2 U L' D'
45740 29-may-2017 17:20:00 00:20.206 U F2 L2 D L2 D2 U B2 U R2 D2 B' L2 F L' B2 D L2 B' D' L' U2
45739 29-may-2017 17:19:16 00:17.086 U B2 U' L2 D2 U L2 B2 U' L2 B' L F R2 L D' L' B2 D R B' U
45738 29-may-2017 17:18:38 00:17.203 U L2 U B2 D L2 F2 U R2 D2 F2 L' U B' U2 R B' U L2 D' F'
45737 29-may-2017 17:18:00 00:17.590 F2 U L2 F2 D R2 D' L2 D' B2 D' L' B D2 B' R2 D' U B' R F U'
45736 29-may-2017 17:17:23 00:17.207 D' R2 U' B2 L2 U2 B2 U' L2 F2 R2 F' R D2 B2 U' F U2 B' R
45735 29-may-2017 17:16:45 00:18.421 B2 D F2 R2 U' R2 B2 U F2 D' B2 L' B R2 D F' R2 L' B' D' L2
45734 29-may-2017 17:16:11 00:16.654 L2 U2 B2 U B2 U' F2 D B2 U' L2 F R D2 L2 B D R2 L' B D U'
45733 29-may-2017 17:15:31 00:16.839 U' F2 R2 B2 D L2 U2 B2 R2 D F D B' L F D' U L B' D U2
45732 29-may-2017 17:14:52 00:17.462 U F2 L2 U L2 D' R2 F2 U F2 D B R L' D2 F' U2 B2 D' R2 U L2
45731 29-may-2017 17:14:17 00:16.288 F2 D R2 D' R2 D B2 R2 B2 U' L2 B F2 R' U2 L F D B' F R
45730 29-may-2017 17:13:41 00:15.991 F2 L2 F2 U F2 D2 L2 B2 R2 U R' D2 F L D F R2 D' U2 B' U'


----------



## mafergut (May 30, 2017)

Hi guys! All of a sudden I realized (to be more precise somebody has made me realize) I'm spending way too much time cubing, basically ALL my spare time. And that's not a good sign. I have been obsessed with getting faster at this or that event, to the point that if I'm in the middle of a timed solve, my wife and son have developed the habit of avoiding any disturbance, which is frustrating for them. That's not good either.

I think it's time for me to take this hobby much less seriously. I don't want to forget how to solve but I don't want to be upset if I do not improve or if I can't find time to practice or whatever...

So if you start to see me around here much less frequently, if at all, now you know why. And if anybody has the time to take over the Race to sub-15 thread they will be welcome as I don't think I can keep running that either.

Happy cubing and I'lll see you around... from time to time.


----------



## newtonbase (May 30, 2017)

Lid said:


> Short comp report (in event+round order) ...
> Friday:
> 6x6: Three single PBs in row ... mean 4:18 / 4:02 single :: 2x PB
> 7x7: Didn't expect too much here ... mean 6:38 / 5:47 single
> ...


Some great results. Well done. 


mafergut said:


> Hi guys! All of a sudden I realized (to be more precise somebody has made me realize) I'm spending way too much time cubing, basically ALL my spare time. And that's not a good sign. I have been obsessed with getting faster at this or that event, to the point that if I'm in the middle of a timed solve, my wife and son have developed the habit of avoiding any disturbance, which is frustrating for them. That's not good either.
> 
> I think it's time for me to take this hobby much less seriously. I don't want to forget how to solve but I don't want to be upset if I do not improve or if I can't find time to practice or whatever...
> 
> ...


There are more important things than cubing. It's important to remember that.


----------



## mark49152 (May 30, 2017)

@mafergut, we'll miss you - I hope you are able to find the right balance and continue cubing and posting here.


----------



## moralsh (May 30, 2017)

@mafergut just take a break and after that you'll see if you can keep cubing with less implication, probably you'll even have more fun that way.

I myself almost never cube at home girlfriend is at home, sometimes I cube a bit while watching TV but not much. My practice time comes when she's not at home or she's still asleep or while I'm traveling. I'm just trying to avoid her hating the hobby. It works and I still improve a little.

@Lid you're just in another league, wow


----------



## Lazy Einstein (May 30, 2017)

mafergut said:


> Hi guys! All of a sudden I realized (to be more precise somebody has made me realize) I'm spending way too much time cubing, basically ALL my spare time. And that's not a good sign. I have been obsessed with getting faster at this or that event, to the point that if I'm in the middle of a timed solve, my wife and son have developed the habit of avoiding any disturbance, which is frustrating for them. That's not good either.
> 
> I think it's time for me to take this hobby much less seriously. I don't want to forget how to solve but I don't want to be upset if I do not improve or if I can't find time to practice or whatever...
> 
> ...



That is just the life of us older cubers.
I have been cubing for three years now.
I was in College. I quit during year 1 and 2 exam periods for roughly 2 months-ish each time with Zero solving.
Then July to December 2016, I didn't touch any big cubes or side event,just played around with 3x3x3, and I didn't have more than 500 solves for that half a year.

Every time I came back I had a renewed passion for it personally.
The 6 month of casual to no solving sucked the most.
I forgot so much. I had to relearn sq-1 and Mega LL algs. The worst was I knew 2GLL,H, Pi and was into AS when I stopped hardcore solving. I forgot most of it except H and most 2GLL.

Try doing an Ao-50 once every other day max or something when family is asleep and whatnot.
What really helped me focus on my wife and kids was not bringing a cube with me when we went out.

Now I mostly solve on lunch break at work and after 8pm on weekdays. I barely cube on weekends now.
I have missed a ton of comps and am not going to NATs anymore but I feel less stressed about trying to improve

I have still been improving(Although, I only solve 333, OH, 3BLD, FMC now), I don't think about cubing 24/7 any more but I still look forward to sitting down and solving, and I have relearned most of ZBLL again.
I am basically done, I just have to practice/drill algs, do some Ao100s for algs, and I am done.

I was able to find a happy balance and still go places with cubing. 

I hope you figure out what you need.
Enjoy your time with your family and cube when you can. Good luck and hope to see you posting often still.


----------



## mafergut (May 30, 2017)

Thank you all for the nice words and suggestions! I will try to follow your advice.


----------



## Jason Green (May 31, 2017)

mafergut said:


> Hi guys! All of a sudden I realized (to be more precise somebody has made me realize) I'm spending way too much time cubing, basically ALL my spare time. And that's not a good sign. I have been obsessed with getting faster at this or that event, to the point that if I'm in the middle of a timed solve, my wife and son have developed the habit of avoiding any disturbance, which is frustrating for them. That's not good either.
> 
> I think it's time for me to take this hobby much less seriously. I don't want to forget how to solve but I don't want to be upset if I do not improve or if I can't find time to practice or whatever...
> 
> ...


I have similar feelings at times, but sounds like you're a more balanced person at me at being able to set aside an obsession (good for you).  For me it's basically come down to I can't keep up with my wife of Netflix shows anymore!

I also have cut back on being obsessed with this thread which has saved me some time. Now I just read through to catch up every two or three days and don't feel too bad about not posting as often.


----------



## Logiqx (May 31, 2017)

@mafergut 

We'll miss you on this thread. Enjoy the extra time with your family and friends. I hope you can find a balance that works for everyone.

Don't stop cubing entirely though... It's too cool to abandon entirely.


----------



## phreaker (May 31, 2017)

@mafergut 

Good luck, and may you find the balance in your life, that you want. With or without cubing. The cubes are only pieces of plastic with some metal... Humans, family, co-workers, friends are what matters . I think you've got plenty of the latter in this thread.


----------



## pglewis (May 31, 2017)

I dunno. I mean, you can always get more wives and more kids, right?


----------



## chtiger (May 31, 2017)

smashed 3 PB's today in the 3 events I was practicing for comp this weekend. 

3BLD -- 1:32.69, previous was 1:44.18. Really easy scramble, 9 edges, 5 corners. I did have a 1:36 DNF 2 days ago on a non-easy scramble.

4BLD -- 7:41.45, previous was 8:24.66. Average scramble, 16/23/8.

clock ao5 -- 8.06, previous was 8.24. Also ao12 8.64, down from 8.69.

Also doing 5BLD and MBLD at the comp but don't feel like practicing those, maybe I should while I'm having a good day.


----------



## h2f (Jun 1, 2017)

chtiger said:


> smashed 3 PB's today in the 3 events I was practicing for comp this weekend.
> 
> 3BLD -- 1:32.69, previous was 1:44.18. Really easy scramble, 9 edges, 5 corners. I did have a 1:36 DNF 2 days ago on a non-easy scramble.
> 
> ...



Really nice results. Good luck at competition.

I'm practicing mbld very hard. I do 1 hour attempt with 9 cubes everyday. I never liked mbld but now I'm addicted. I test my rooms, images and order of memorization. I hope it will pay off soon.


----------



## mark49152 (Jun 1, 2017)

@h2f, good to hear you're also into MBLD. I enjoy it but it's time consuming to practise large attempts and my memory would get exhausted if I did one every day!

This week I did one full attempt, 15/16 in 71 mins. It was DNF (7/16) at 1 hour. It was a mess because I had to redo memo on two cubes then had long pauses in execution. I also did some 4-cube attempts to work on memo speed.

MBLD at comp this weekend.


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## h2f (Jun 1, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> This week I did one full attempt, 15/16 in 71 mins. It was DNF (7/16) at 1 hour. It was a mess because I had to redo memo on two cubes then had long pauses in execution. I also did some 4-cube attempts to work on memo speed.



Impressive 15/16!


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## mark49152 (Jun 1, 2017)

h2f said:


> Impressive 15/16!


It will take more practise to do that within an hour, but I think I can do it. I've learned that mental condition is very important. If I'm tired, unwell or haven't eaten properly, memo takes much longer.


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## h2f (Jun 1, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> If I'm tired, unwell or haven't eaten properly, memo takes much longer.



Agree. I'll take 2 days off to try 11 or 13 on Saturday or Sunday. I have enough place to take maybe 30 cubes now.


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## mark49152 (Jun 1, 2017)

h2f said:


> I have enough place to take maybe 30 cubes now.


Go for it!  My target is 20 by end of 2017. I have enough locations for 20, but need more because I also use them for other BLD events and like to rotate them.


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## h2f (Jun 1, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> Go for it!  My target is 20 by end of 2017. I have enough locations for 20, but need more because I also use them for other BLD events and like to rotate them.



It's too early to try. I was only told to have places for 60 cubes. During my tests this week I tried to make 6 specific locations for 4 cubes every. I can connect them. Plus I have 12 other rooms for 6 cubes - not used so far or used very seldom. I use 2 rooms for 1 cube - one for edges one for corners. I was told if I make attempts every day it's neceserry to not use same location every day. So I switch between 3 of them and now I'm figuring out 4th. This leads to using every location once per 4 attempts. It's enough time to feel comfortable with it.


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## newtonbase (Jun 1, 2017)

Enjoying all the blind on here. Well done on the PBs @chtiger. I have only one 3BLD solve quicker than that (EDIT: make that 2, just got my 2nd sub 1:30s). I'm spending too much time on comms when I should be working on memo for WCs. 4BLD is my target after that.
MBLD is very enjoyable and rewarding but it's exhausting and I can't find time to do it but I've beaten my 2017 target of 4/4 which I'll attempt in comp when I get a chance. Very impressed with your improvement @mark49152.


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## mark49152 (Jun 1, 2017)

Thanks @newtonbase.

@h2f, that's what I mean by rotation. I have 20 rooms. 12 of those have 3 locations each, enough for 1 cube. The other 8 have 4 locations, enough for a 4BLD, or an MBLD cube with some inefficiency.

If I do a large MBLD attempt, I only have enough locations to do a handful of 4BLD or 5BLD the next day before I have to start reusing locations, and I do find old memo lingers sometimes.

My plan after Crawley is to split those 8 rooms and add 2 locations each, to double the number of MBLD cubes I can fit in to them. After that I will have to find some new buildings


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## newtonbase (Jun 1, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> Thanks @newtonbase.
> 
> @h2f, that's what I mean by rotation. I have 20 rooms. 12 of those have 3 locations each, enough for 1 cube. The other 8 have 4 locations, enough for a 4BLD, or an MBLD cube with some inefficiency.
> 
> ...


How do you use your locations? I only ever have 2 per cube. 
My last 5 solves of my lunchtime 3BLD session were all sub 2 including 2 consecutive sub 1:30s. Unfortunately I had a couple of close DNFs so no mean or Ao5 but I was not happy about my lunchbreak ending.


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## h2f (Jun 1, 2017)

@mark49152 Ok. I understand.


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## mark49152 (Jun 1, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> How do you use your locations?


Five pairs per location. Corners almost always fit into one; edges usually need two.


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## newtonbase (Jun 1, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> Five pairs per location. Corners almost always fit into one; edges usually need two.


I'm going to have to experiment when I next try multi.


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## mark49152 (Jun 1, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> I'm going to have to experiment when I next try multi.


What do you do at the moment?


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## newtonbase (Jun 1, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> What do you do at the moment?


1 location for corners and 1 for edges. 1 room per cube.


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## David Zemdegs (Jun 1, 2017)

We were asked to do an introduction video for the world championships so I came up with this:


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## moralsh (Jun 1, 2017)

Reading this makes me realize I have to rethink my system if I ever want to get decent results at multi.

for 3BLD I just make a sentence for corners and audio the edges mostly making words on the fly, that's my first mistake and the first think I'd like to improve. I need at least a good image for each pair, I'll keep making words on the fly but need a good image just in case, this might help Multi greatly, I think.

4BLD I just make a sentence for corners (I use to help remembering corners with visual also) and groups of 5 pair sentences for edges, then audio centers. This is the blind event I feel more comfortable in.

5BLD I associate words/images with work mates usually in groups of 3 pairs per work mate, except corners, I only use one there.

Multi I use classic rooms 2 locations per room, 3 pairs per location, but it's very rusty as I don't practice it at all.

I need well thought images and rooms/locations, and get some more practice. I might move 5BLD to rooms but might have problems if I do both events. right now I have no problem doing several 4BLD or 5BLD one after the other maybe I can get somewhere in the middle.


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## newtonbase (Jun 1, 2017)

David Zemdegs said:


> We were asked to do an introduction video for the world championships so I came up with this:


I saw that. You're a natural. Do you do public speaking or anything similar?


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## mark49152 (Jun 1, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> 1 location for corners and 1 for edges. 1 room per cube.


Even if you have 13 or 14 edge targets? Do you combine 7 images into a single scene?

@moralsh: Yes having good images made a big difference for me. Made my memo faster and stronger. As well as coming to mind much more quickly, I have made sure all my images are vivid and distinct. So no more screw-ups like seeing NR and having "near" come to mind first, then forgetting it during execution because it's only implied in the scene, not vivid.


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## newtonbase (Jun 1, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> Even if you have 13 or 14 edge targets? Do you combine 7 images into a single scene?


Yes. Could be why my MBLD memo takes so long. If only audio was long term. 

Nick Ross (Crimewatch).


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## mark49152 (Jun 1, 2017)

I finally got around to videoing some BLD at home. It's over a year since I posted unofficial 3BLD. Here's my best two on cam. 






And I also tried for nearly an hour to get a 4BLD sub-5 on cam. I've had three or four in the last week, but this is the closest I got on cam.


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## newtonbase (Jun 1, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> I finally got around to videoing some BLD at home. It's over a year since I posted unofficial 3BLD. Here's my best two on cam.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Was that an edge flip you did at the end of edges on solve 2 with at the M' and U moves? Are you going to learn edge comms yet?


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## mark49152 (Jun 2, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> Was that an edge flip you did at the end of edges on solve 2 with at the M' and U moves? Are you going to learn edge comms yet?


No, there are more edges after that. It was a Q target - (U M')3 (U M) (U M')4.

I have no plan to learn full edge comms because the move savings compared to advanced M2 are modest and at my level that won't compensate for the extra thinking. Bear in mind I've been using corner comms for over a year and you can see I hesitate way more during corners than edges.

I do use a handful of comms for cases where they do save lots of moves over advanced M2, like setups to U M' U2 M U and similar, and E slice comms for TH, RN and similar.


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## newtonbase (Jun 2, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> No, there are more edges after that. It was a Q target - (U M')3 (U M) (U M')4.
> 
> I have no plan to learn full edge comms because the move savings compared to advanced M2 are modest and at my level that won't compensate for the extra thinking. Bear in mind I've been using corner comms for over a year and you can see I hesitate way more during corners than edges.
> 
> I do use a handful of comms for cases where they do save lots of moves over advanced M2, like setups to U M' U2 M U and similar, and E slice comms for TH, RN and similar.


I use that algorithm to flip Q but not to solve it. I should change that.
I'm trying to focus my attention on corner comms but edges are fun to figure out and almost any that include an M slice target are well worth knowing plus the ones you mention and others like EM, GO and XV. HN is a favourite. I have to plan to use some of them during memo as they aren't all instinctive yet but it's getting easier.


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## h2f (Jun 2, 2017)

@mark49152 nice solves.


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## mafergut (Jun 3, 2017)

phreaker said:


> @mafergut
> 
> Good luck, and may you find the balance in your life, that you want. With or without cubing. The cubes are only pieces of plastic with some metal... Humans, family, co-workers, friends are what matters . *I think you've got plenty of the latter in this thread.*


Thank you again to all for your nice words. Specially this sentence by @phreaker has touched me  and it's the main reason why it's a hard decision, more than because of cubing per se. I promise I'll come back from time to time if only to say hello and read about your progress.

My new practice "regime" is like 15-20min of practice almost every day, at a time when I'm home alone, one different event every day, so I don't forget how to solve anything. Mostly untimed but even when timing not worrying much about the times. I don't think I'll continue keeping track of PBs or anything but yesterday I got a new PB Ao5 at OH (31.45), go figure!


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## newtonbase (Jun 3, 2017)

No MBLD results from Crawley on Cubecomps. How did it go?


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## bubbagrub (Jun 3, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> No MBLD results from Crawley on Cubecomps. How did it go?



Mark got 10/14. Ben Ridley got 14/15. Andy and I DNFed. I got 2/5... :-(

Results are here now: http://cubecomps.com/live.php?cid=2261&cat=19&rnd=1


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## pglewis (Jun 3, 2017)

Comp report: 

The room erupted a _little_ when Blake got that 4.8, making him the 3rd person in the room with a sub 5 single. I had to leave before the 2nd round so who knows if they're done making noise just yet. 

Mixed bag for me but still PRs except 2x2 single. I got comped on my first two 3x3 solves, 1:39 and :53 which kept me from my sub :40 average goal, but I did manage the sub 30 single goal with 29.95. I had a _lot_ of good solves in warmup, including a PB 20.9. I skipped my 4x4 debut, they were running well behind due to Megaminx which took a looooooong time. 

I was definitely feeling a lot more comfortable despite continuing my tradition of having disastrous first two solves. In warmup I was in that state where the times were a lot faster than I thought they were, landing several 21s and 22s, and my first 20 if only barely.


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## pglewis (Jun 3, 2017)

bubbagrub said:


> Mark got 10/14. Ben Ridley got 14/15. Andy and I DNFed. I got 2/5... :-(
> 
> Results are here now: http://cubecomps.com/live.php?cid=2261&cat=19&rnd=1



Sorry to hear about the DNF, you guys will get 'em next time.


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## newtonbase (Jun 3, 2017)

bubbagrub said:


> Mark got 10/14. Ben Ridley got 14/15. Andy and I DNFed. I got 2/5... :-(
> 
> Results are here now: http://cubecomps.com/live.php?cid=2261&cat=19&rnd=1


A little disappointing but there's plenty more chances coming up.


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## chtiger (Jun 4, 2017)

Quick comp day 1 recap: DNF x ∞


Spoiler: some details



Just 4 attempts, so really DNFx4. Skipped 1st MBLD attempt because 2.5 hours more sleep is better than MBLD..
4BLD attempt 1: quit midsolve when I realized memo was wrong.
5BLD attempt 1: Just my 3rd full attempt ever. It felt good, but was off by about 12 pieces. Time was 36:xx, which is an improvement over last time, and includes doing x-center memo 3 times because of messing up.
4BLD attempt 2: off by 5 centers, time was 11:xx
MBLD attempt 2: disaster. 1/8. Was forgetting chunks of edge memo on every cube. Got frustrated and lost focus and quit in middle of sixth cube.


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## mark49152 (Jun 4, 2017)

bubbagrub said:


> Mark got 10/14.


No PB, but it was my biggest official attempt and I was pleased to manage it fairly comfortably within the time limit - faster than my 10/12. Memo and execution were both generally good. As usual it was silly mistakes that spoiled it.

More fun tomorrow.


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## David Zemdegs (Jun 4, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> I saw that. You're a natural. Do you do public speaking or anything similar?


I have done computer training for over 20 years. I also dabbled in politics for 10 years.


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## newtonbase (Jun 4, 2017)

David Zemdegs said:


> I have done computer training for over 20 years. I also dabbled in politics for 10 years.


That makes sense. Really liked the video.


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## moralsh (Jun 4, 2017)

Mark just got a sub 6 4BLD mean (5:53.16 I think), wow 

http://cubecomps.com/live.php?cid=2261&cat=17&rnd=1


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## h2f (Jun 4, 2017)

moralsh said:


> Mark just got a sub 6 4BLD mean (5:53.16 I think), wow
> 
> http://cubecomps.com/live.php?cid=2261&cat=17&rnd=1



Nice. And a mo3 sub6 too. Congrats @mark49152


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## pglewis (Jun 4, 2017)

A postmortem on the bad solves: the 1:39 was going to be an "okay" solve for me, even landed a friendly J-Perm, but for some unknown reason my hands decided to go into a Y-Perm. I realized it quickly but already several moves into the wrong alg. I _should_ have just taken my lumps and done a CFOPP solve but I compounded it by halting mid alg and trying to undo what I'd started. It was at this point my brain announced "my work here is done!" leaving me to struggle even finding pairs to re-solve f2l. The second solve was a OLL fail that I'm not even sure what I did wrong.


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## newtonbase (Jun 4, 2017)

pglewis said:


> A postmortem on the bad solves: the 1:39 was going to be an "okay" solve for me, even landed a friendly J-Perm, but for some unknown reason my hands decided to go into a Y-Perm. I realized it quickly but already several moves into the wrong alg. I _should_ have just taken my lumps and done a CFOPP solve but I compounded it by halting mid alg and trying to undo what I'd started. It was at this point my brain announced "my work here is done!" leaving me to struggle even finding pairs to re-solve f2l. The second solve was a OLL fail that I'm not even sure what I did wrong.


Unlucky. Always best to finish the alg and then sort the problem but I expect you know that now!


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## newtonbase (Jun 4, 2017)

And well done to @mark49152 on that mean. Last solve was fastest so I guess he wasn't taking it easy.


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## pglewis (Jun 4, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> Unlucky. Always best to finish the alg and then sort the problem but I expect you know that now!



I can attest that doing it the wrong way can be even more enlightening than the correct one  

I suppose I could have left frustrated that I "blew all my good solves on warm-up" but it was very satisfying even though it didn't completely carry into my official solves. If I had an extended session like that at home I'd certainly have been over the moon, I should have been logging into csTimer. 



newtonbase said:


> And well done to @mark49152 on that mean. Last solve was fastest so I guess he wasn't taking it easy.



Yeah, he's approaching alien status.


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## Jason Green (Jun 5, 2017)

I finally edited some of my solves from my APRIL competition! I wouldn't say I procrastinate so much as I'd rather spend my free time cubing.


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## CLL Smooth (Jun 5, 2017)

Haven't been cubing much lately. I'm still speed solving though.


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## mark49152 (Jun 5, 2017)

pglewis said:


> Yeah, he's approaching alien status.


LOL. Nice comment from someone at the comp yesterday: "He's not supposed to be that fast, he's OLD!" (Thanks Callum )

Congrats to Andy as well on the awesome PB clock average in the finals, and coming 7th .

Here's my comp report from Crawley Open 2017, in chronological order.

4x4: Couldn't really find my form but at least my average in the second round was only 0.5 seconds off a PB.

MBLD: Disappointed not to get a PB of course, but 10/14 in less time than my 10/12 comp PB is still progress. My time management was good and I don't think more time or fewer cubes would have helped my accuracy, as they were silly mistakes that would have happened anyway. My plan is to keep working on speed and time management, and keep shooting for as many cubes as I can fit into an hour.

3x3: Dreadful. Worst average since 2015. By the end, my lookahead had completely gone and I was stopping (not even pausing) after every pair. Deliberately DNF'ed solve 4 because it was over 30 seconds and I was too annoyed. Basically, I forgot how to solve .

4BLD: I had no expectations as I felt my PB of 5:56.72 would be hard for me to beat, especially since I was having a poor comp anyway. What transpired was a single PB of 5:30.67 (and 3rd place) to finish off a mean of 5:56.60. So my mean was faster than my old single . Delighted with that. Means are unofficial but that's still 20th in the world.

5x5: I missed the (harsher than usual) soft cut and scraped through to second round on a single. Much like 4x4, second round gave me my second-best official average but I didn't really feel on form.

3BLD. Another PB, 1:11.80. Good improvement but still a bit disappointing because it was an easy scramble (two solved corners) and would likely have been sub-1 at home. My memo is still way slower under comp pressure - like ~40 seconds instead of ~25.

As usual, great to catch up with Andy, Ben and everyone else. Looking forward to WC next!

EDIT: I forgot clock. Did a couple of solves Sunday morning as another chance to keep my PB run alive. One was a complete fail because I forgot how to solve it. The other was PB but DNF for being over the time limit.


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## NewbieCuber (Jun 5, 2017)

Hi folks. I'm a new older cuber as well (in my 50s). Only yesterday did I finally memorize enough algorithms to finish the cube via the beginners method. I'm using TwistyTimer on my Android phone and I have a low time of 1:22 (which really surprised me) a high time of over 5 minutes, but my last 5 solves have averaged 2:05. 2 minutes seems to be a pretty normal average for me.

That's probably not bad for what is literally my first day. I'm happy to be able to solve it at all.


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## muchacho (Jun 5, 2017)

Welcome! I was averaging more than 3 minutes after a day, and I already knew how to solve a 2x2 for some weeks (so I also knew most of the algs I needed for 3x3).


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## newtonbase (Jun 5, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> Means are unofficial but that's still *20th* in the world.


That's (unofficially) fantastic!


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## Selkie (Jun 5, 2017)

@mafergut - Cube/Life balance is important as you will be able to tell from my absences. Best of luck and look forward to seeing updates if/when you have the time.

Some great results from the older brethren recently includes my UK mates, @Lid and @Jason Green 

Been practicing more and more 3x3 in the last week after meeting @Logiqx and some other younger UK cubers for a beer last week. Had a 15.34 Ao100 today. Stepping up practice for London which is only 5 weeks away. being so close to average cuts for 4x4 (1:00), 5x5 (2:00) and 6x6 (3:30), I need to ensure I don't spend all my time on 3x3 but really looking forward to a comp. Last December and Birmingham Open seems an age ago.

Also great to see Weston-super-mare open has had its initial announcement @Shaky Hands my friend. Should be a blast buddy 

@David Zemdegs - Haha cool video. Best of luck at Worlds. Unfortunately I cannot make it this time round though a lot o the older UK cubers are going. Looking forward to meeting Felix at London Open next month though


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## chtiger (Jun 5, 2017)

I'm glad to see others had some good results at comp this weekend. I sure didn't. Here's a vid of my solves






14 blind attempts, 12 DNF's and 2 mediocre successes. Half the DNFs I literally did not finish the attempt. Also DNFed in clock finals after nearly DNFing the first round.


Spoiler: day 2 commentary



5BLD attempt 2: went fairly smooth, thought it had a chance. I think I forgot to undo a setup early, and I also switched the last 2 corner pairs in my memo at some point. Time improved to 32:xx

3BLD rd 1: The first 2 attempts were close and between 2:20 and 3:00. Third attempt I went slower to try to make next round and got 3:32.

Clock rd 1: 10.24, 14.10, 8.64, DNF, 22.04 = 15.46. DNF was a low 9. Last solve went slow to make next round, but then repeatedly messed up.

MBLD attempt 3: did a smaller attempt after Saturday's disaster and with so much other BLDs. 2/4, 21:26. Forgot edge memo of 1 cube. Set it aside, came back to it later, recalled the memo correctly, but then forgot to do the flipped edge. Other miss was off by 3 edges.

4BLD attempt 3: Took forever to memo. Quit midsolve at some point, can't remember.

Clock final: DNF, 8.77, DNF, 9.67, 9.30. DNF's were a 10 and 11

5BLD attempt 3: On 2nd target, I thought I setup for x-center when i was doing +center. Undid it, then thought maybe I did it right the first time. Then couldn't remember if i did the U2 for 1st target. Didn't want to spend 15 more minutes solving when I probably already messed up, so quit, but I actually had it correct.

3BLD final: was mentally out of it at this point. First solve was over 3:00 and not all that close. Next 2 solves were slow memo and couldn't even remember it.

Still enjoyed this comp. I like smaller comps, and this one only had 15 people because it was just BLDs and FMC with a couple other things mixed in. Also cool to watch Mark Boyanowski attempt 42 cubes. It was waaaay more BLD than I'm used to. A typical practice day is 3 3BLDs and 1 4BLD.


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## pglewis (Jun 5, 2017)

chtiger said:


> Here's a vid of my solves



Momma said there'd be days like that, hats off for keeping your sense of humor. 



NewbieCuber said:


> Hi folks. I'm a new older cuber as well (in my 50s). Only yesterday did I finally memorize enough algorithms to finish the cube via the beginners method. I'm using TwistyTimer on my Android phone and I have a low time of 1:22 (which really surprised me) a high time of over 5 minutes, but my last 5 solves have averaged 2:05. 2 minutes seems to be a pretty normal average for me.
> 
> That's probably not bad for what is literally my first day. I'm happy to be able to solve it at all.



Welcome, and that's definitely a great first day PB, nicely done.


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## pglewis (Jun 5, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> LOL. Nice comment from someone at the comp yesterday: "He's not supposed to be that fast, he's OLD!" (Thanks Callum )



 I'm pretty much a unicorn in my area. I don't think there was anyone else over 30 this weekend and though I don't nearly look my age I got a lot of smiles and nods from people for being "the old guy with a lanyard". I try to work on a few parents here and there. Some of them can solve and, geeze... you're going to be there all day anyway, spend some of that time warming up and go get an official time! 



mark49152 said:


> 3x3: Dreadful. Worst average since 2015. By the end, my lookahead had completely gone and I was stopping (not even pausing) after every pair.



I saw that and kept looking back ("wait, is that OH?"). Looked like you were "on" this weekend but 3x3 totally didn't fit. 



mark49152 said:


> Means are unofficial but that's still 20th in the world.



As if leap-frogging some more top 100 singles wasn't impressive enough. We need to get the merchandising machinery rolling.


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## newtonbase (Jun 5, 2017)

NewbieCuber said:


> Hi folks. I'm a new older cuber as well (in my 50s). Only yesterday did I finally memorize enough algorithms to finish the cube via the beginners method. I'm using TwistyTimer on my Android phone and I have a low time of 1:22 (which really surprised me) a high time of over 5 minutes, but my last 5 solves have averaged 2:05. 2 minutes seems to be a pretty normal average for me.
> 
> That's probably not bad for what is literally my first day. I'm happy to be able to solve it at all.


That's an excellent start. I hope you keep at it.


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## pipkiksass (Jun 5, 2017)

Not been on for ages, but I'm subscribed to @Jason Green on YT, and just watched your PB fest video, so thought I'd stop by, as it's a special occasion. I doff my hat to you, sir!!

Anyone use this forum on iOS and have any tips for getting it more like Tapatalk? I rely on notifications etc., and miss Tapatalk tbh, before I had it I was on Android, using Chrome and had it set up well, now I'm iOS and Safari and bleugh!

In other news, placed a Cubicle order last week for the first time in donkeys, because jperm posted a review of the Weilong GYS2 M, and I noticed it's about $20 cheaper than other magnetic cubes, as its mass produced. Arrived today, along with some lubicle 1 and DNM (or whatever the acronym for the other cubicle labs lube is). I just wanted to see how a mass produced magnetic cube compares with my DIY Valk. 

First impressions are good, factory setup is a bit loose and unstable for my liking, and quite a dry and scratchy cube. Dropped some lubicle 1 in, and immediately as smooth as silk! One side has spring noise, so I'll be dismantling and tensioning later, but only done maybe 20 solves and getting decent averages, and had a 12.xx single, which is probably 1/100 for me. Promising!


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## muchacho (Jun 6, 2017)

OH PB single: 19.006 (was 19.518 from 3.5 months ago)

5607 06-jun-2017 10:51:32 00:19.006 D R2 L2 U2 R2 D' B2 R2 U' B2 D B' D' B' D F' R B F2 R' U L'
z
Uw U2 M' Lw' U Lw' z2 // FB
...and I can't remember how I did SB exactly 

edit: also Ao12 PB: 25.871 (was 26.991 from 1.5 months ago)



Spoiler



5617 06-jun-2017 11:16:45 00:28.518 D' F2 U L2 U B2 L2 D' F2 L2 D R' F' D F' L2 B F2 R' L U2
5616 06-jun-2017 11:15:59 00:25.802 D2 L2 B2 L2 D L2 D R2 F2 D2 U' B D2 R B' D2 L' U' B' U' B'
5615 06-jun-2017 11:15:11 00:28.222 B2 U2 R2 F2 L2 U B2 L2 D2 U F D' B' R B2 D2 U R' D' U' L' U2
5614 06-jun-2017 11:14:20 00:28.141 U L2 U B2 R2 F2 D2 L2 U F2 U' F D' R B2 U F U2 R2 L2 U2
5613 06-jun-2017 11:13:31 00:25.335 D R2 F2 D U F2 D' F2 L2 F2 L F R L' B F L B L2 U B
5612 06-jun-2017 11:12:47 00:22.694 R2 D R2 D L2 F2 D B2 U2 B2 U' R F2 R' U2 L2 B' R L' B2 L2 U2
5611 06-jun-2017 11:12:02 00:26.133 D' R2 F2 R2 F2 L2 D2 L2 D F2 U L B' L F R' B2 D' B2 L' D' U'
5610 06-jun-2017 11:11:00 00:30.998 R2 U F2 D' B2 F2 R2 D U2 L2 U2 L B' F' U B L D2 L' F2 D2
5609 06-jun-2017 11:10:18 00:21.671 U' L2 B2 D U2 F2 L2 F2 L2 U B2 L D2 R B2 D2 F D R B F D
5608 06-jun-2017 11:09:17 00:40.125 F2 R2 D F2 L2 U2 B2 R2 D R2 U' F' L D2 F' R2 U2 R' U B L2
5607 06-jun-2017 10:51:32 00:19.006 D R2 L2 U2 R2 D' B2 R2 U' B2 D B' D' B' D F' R B F2 R' U L'
5606 06-jun-2017 10:50:49 00:21.199 L2 U' B2 R2 U B2 L2 U' L2 D2 U' B R B2 F' L' U B2 U F D' U'



edit2: And Mo100 from 30.544 to 30.136


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## Shaky Hands (Jun 6, 2017)

I'm a few weeks behind on this mega-thread so here's an overdue catch-up.



mark49152 said:


> There are lots of helpful image lists out there, and Anki is a good tool for learning them.



This looks interesting. Will be taking a good look into this. Thanks.



bubbagrub said:


> Hi Oldies, I've not posted on here for a while. I thought I'd give a quick update on my feet progress. I'm not quite sure why, but I've been focusing almost exclusively on practising feet in the past couple of months, and have made good progress. I'm reasonably hopeful that I'll qualify for Worlds...
> 
> My progress looks like this:
> 
> ...



Practice paid off for you. Well done indeed!



CLL Smooth said:


> So far I've gotten at least one PB every comp I've attended. The pressure mounts to keep improving those stats, but why do I care? If I don't break a comp PB tomorrow will future competitions be more enjoyable? If I do, will the pressure keep mounting? Why do I care? Hopefully I can just relax and have fun, but that usually only happens once a PB is broken. I'm curious how others feel about this. And why am I still practicing OH when there is no OH tomorrow?



I'm also on a PB streak (14.) I figure at some point I'll lose the streak and I'll be more relaxed at future comps as a result!



phreaker said:


> Working on bigger cubes...
> 
> I actually started timing 5x5 solves. I think I ALMOST can solve L2E, intuitive now, it is getting closer and closer, I only hit a parity I can't solve about one solve in 10 at most. (And I know 5x5 parity is much less frequent than that, I need to learn 5x5 parity for real.)
> 
> Time: 8:22. (Yes, I'm slow.) Using Freeslice. Really fun... but my TPS is slow, and I suspect I could do better in spots with making the centers in less moves. Though I will say my "look ahead" during centers is getting better and better... same with edges.



Hope you enjoy 5x5. As with most cubing-related activities, if you put the time in, you can make decent improvements with it.








h2f said:


> You are also on standaupmath's newest video from UK Champs.





newtonbase said:


> Most of the UK oldies are on there but I didn't see @Logiqx or myself.



You guys look too scary. 


bubbagrub said:


> Mark got 10/14. Ben Ridley got 14/15. Andy and I DNFed. I got 2/5... :-(
> 
> Results are here now: http://cubecomps.com/live.php?cid=2261&cat=19&rnd=1



Yeah, I tried to improve from my previous 2/4 but only managed a 1/3. Will try to do a post-comp report.



Selkie said:


> Also great to see Weston-super-mare open has had its initial announcement @Shaky Hands my friend. Should be a blast buddy



Indeed. Looking forward to organising a competition for the first time. Selkie & Shaky, the dynamic tag team!


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## h2f (Jun 6, 2017)

I'm back to 3bld practice. I havent done any session for 2 months maybe. I've caught today nice single, though I had better solves earlier and yesterday. But this is on cam. Let me know if you want a reconstruction though there's a link to my blog where I put it. It could be PB but I've wasted some time searching orientation.


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## newtonbase (Jun 6, 2017)

h2f said:


> It could be PB but I've wasted some time searching orientation.


It's not as easy as it should be. I can't do it quickly using instinct so I tend to put the top colour where it should be then rotate on that axis. Does anyone have a better technique?


----------



## mark49152 (Jun 6, 2017)

Nice solve @h2f.



newtonbase said:


> It's not as easy as it should be. I can't do it quickly using instinct so I tend to put the top colour where it should be then rotate on that axis. Does anyone have a better technique?


I think it's one of those things that just starts happening automatically with enough practice. I used to do what you do but honestly couldn't say how I do it now.


----------



## NewbieCuber (Jun 6, 2017)

Alright! I just got a 1:57 with beginners method even though I missed final corner rotation and had to do it twice. It's my first week in and anything under 2 minutes is awesome for me.


----------



## h2f (Jun 6, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> It's not as easy as it should be. I can't do it quickly using instinct so I tend to put the top colour where it should be then rotate on that axis. Does anyone have a better technique?





mark49152 said:


> Nice solve @h2f.
> 
> 
> I think it's one of those things that just starts happening automatically with enough practice. I used to do what you do but honestly couldn't say how I do it now.



Same me. Sometimes I look for a top yellow but most often I just rotate. In this case I've took yellow on top beacause I couldnt figure out where's blue/yellow.

@Shaky Hands Nice progress in 5x5.


----------



## Shaky Hands (Jun 6, 2017)

NewbieCuber said:


> Alright! I just got a 1:57 with beginners method even though I messed final corner rotation and had to do it twice. It's my first week in and anything under 2 minutes is awesome for me.



Good stuff, well done. I remember being similarly satisfied when I got my first sub-2m solve.

One of the best things about the early days of cubing is that these are the days where you'll see the biggest percentage improvement. Keep up the good work!


----------



## NewbieCuber (Jun 6, 2017)

Shaky Hands said:


> Good stuff, well done. I remember being similarly satisfied when I got my first sub-2m solve.
> 
> One of the best things about the early days of cubing is that these are the days where you'll see the biggest percentage improvement. Keep up the good work!



Yep, as a beginner, I also see a big variance in times. A sub 2 minute solve can be followed immediately by an over 4 minute solve  I'm sure consistency will come with practice.


----------



## pglewis (Jun 6, 2017)

pipkiksass said:


> In other news, placed a Cubicle order last week for the first time in donkeys, because jperm posted a review of the Weilong GYS2 M, and I noticed it's about $20 cheaper than other magnetic cubes, as its mass produced.



Good to see you, glad you made the check-in. The stickerless GTS2 (non-M) is still my main since I got it. It was unclear for a little while if it would stick since the Valk is more stable but it really suits my current turning style. I'm sure magnets shores up the stability. The biggest flaw so far is I've had it corner twist a couple times and I'm not particularly prone to them. Low incident still, it hasn't been a chronic problem. 



NewbieCuber said:


> Yep, as a beginner, I also see a big variance in times. A sub 2 minute solve can be followed immediately by an over 4 minute solve  I'm sure consistency will come with practice.



Totally, I've only been speedsolving a little over a year so I'm not far removed from that (and I'm still not very consistent). If you're comfortable solving with the beginners' method at this point I'd suggest tackling F2L asap. You can get a _lot_ faster with the beginners' method still but it has no advantage over F2L other than being easier to learn initially. It's difficult to justify early on because it will slow you down a lot over what you already know but I guarantee it will be even harder to justify if you push on and get under a minute with beginners'. Actually, you already know a limited subset of F2L: just the cases where the corner is already solved. If you pay close attention when you solve a 2nd layer edge you'll see that you end up taking the solved corner _out_, pairing it with your edge, and putting them back in as a pair. F2L is rougly half the work (solving 4 pairs instead of 8 pieces), so if you get half as fast with it you'll probably be back to your current times. There are a lot of cases and it can seem overwhelming at first but it's _the_ place for focus... my gains are still primarily from getting faster at F2L/lookahead and it'll probably still be that way a year from now.


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## Selkie (Jun 6, 2017)

Shaky Hands said:


> Indeed. Looking forward to organising a competition for the first time. Selkie & Shaky, the dynamic tag team!



And the first UK comp with a licensed bar in the same room as the solving. That's what you get when you leave mature cubers to choose a venue huh mate? :confused:


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## newtonbase (Jun 6, 2017)

Selkie said:


> And the first UK comp with a licensed bar in the same room as the solving. That's what you get when you leave mature cubers to choose a venue huh mate? :confused:


Excellent. In that case can we have blind events on the Saturday morning and nothing else for the rest of the weekend please.


----------



## mark49152 (Jun 6, 2017)

Selkie said:


> And the first UK comp with a licensed bar in the same room as the solving. That's what you get when you leave mature cubers to choose a venue huh mate? :confused:


LOL very good. Are the under 18s allowed in? 



newtonbase said:


> Excellent. In that case can we have blind events on the Saturday morning and nothing else for the rest of the weekend please.


Multiple pints blindfolded? Not sure I can do 14 though, getting too old for that .


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## newtonbase (Jun 6, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> LOL very good. Are the under 18s allowed in?
> 
> 
> Multiple pints blindfolded? Not sure I can do 14 though, getting too old for that .


But you'll have a whole hour? 

At Macclesfield 2016. I was the quickest at downing a pint. I'd like to make that official.


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## mark49152 (Jun 6, 2017)

Some BLD from Crawley. Watching this tells me a few more obvious things I need to work on in practice .


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## pglewis (Jun 6, 2017)

New PR single, 20.13... just let me get this milestone already lol


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## h2f (Jun 7, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> Some BLD from Crawley. Watching this tells me a few more obvious things I need to work on in practice .



Nice solve. You are very fast in execution. You know what slowes you down...


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## mark49152 (Jun 7, 2017)

h2f said:


> Nice solve. You are very fast in execution. You know what slowes you down...


I have thoughts on it, but tips would be appreciated. Maybe there's something I missed.


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## NewbieCuber (Jun 7, 2017)

As I learn this skill I found myself amazed yesterday when I realized that even though my solve times are between 2 and 4 minutes, I've completely lost the "fear" of the cube. It's no longer a case of "How can anyone solve this?" It's now "Oh rats, I messed up my last layer, now I have to fix that." 

I would not have thought that I could go from confusion to confidence (even at this low level) in a week.

Also, I got a 1:44 this morning. Followed by a 2:06 followed by a 4:07 (oops)


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## muchacho (Jun 7, 2017)

Similar to what I think about solving a cube blindfolded, but I'm still close to the "how can anyone solve this?" state. I'm trying to learn for a few days now (I learned a bit many months ago).


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## h2f (Jun 7, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> I have thoughts on it, but tips would be appreciated. Maybe there's something I missed.



I think we are at a same skill level and maybe i'm not right with my tips...Anyway - I think you've wasted few seconds (it looks like 6-8) by hitting the cube on the table. It looks like a habit because you do this as well during 4bld. On the other hand - it may help you to recall your memo. I'm not sure if your setup D' Bw' is the best option when doing last 3 edges - the alg you did looks really fast but the setup is long and not hand friendly. Your corners looked very nice. I think we got the same problem - during competitions solve I got often hand shake and my turning style is not exact. Thats way turn slow and dont push. Have you tried magnetized cubes? Since I got Valk 3 M I love to use it during 3bld - it helped me to eliminate the problem of not accurate turning the layers which causes undoing setups or pops.

I must say that I feel a lot of respect what you do in big blindes and mbld. I know how hard you had to work on it.

edit: @mark49152 I wonder what the case was it in last 3 edges? 

@NewbieCuber I remember me setting the barriers: to be under 2 minutes in ao5; to be sub1 minute. Etc. It was 4 years ago...


----------



## mark49152 (Jun 7, 2017)

@h2f: Thanks for the tips and the kind words.

Yeah I agree about the table tapping, that is also what I noticed. Seems I only do this in comp - at home I rarely practise at a table, only when making a video, and I didn't notice this in my recent videos.

At comp I think it is a habit I have developed to counter my shaky hands. It helps me to stabilise the cube and reset my grip on it. My think ahead is also worse in comp, and perhaps for the same reason. Even without the tapping, there were some pauses and missed cancellations that could be improved upon.

My memo is also slower under pressure. I am already working on this, but at every comp I am 10+ seconds slower than at home. It's as if the pressure forces my brain to take more care even when I'm trying to push it.

I have not tried a magnetized cube but maybe I should.

Last two edge targets were LD LB but the alg you noticed is an edge flip on UR and I did Bw' to set up UL to it. It's a terrible solution and I don't know why I did that instead of U2. Bad habit I guess.


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## h2f (Jun 7, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> @h2f
> At comp I think it is a habit I have developed to counter my shaky hands. It helps me to stabilise the cube and reset my grip on it. My think ahead is also worse in comp, and perhaps for the same reason. Even without the tapping, there were some pauses and missed cancellations that could be improved upon.
> 
> My memo is also slower under pressure. I am already working on this, but at every comp I am 10+ seconds slower than at home. It's as if the pressure forces my brain to take more care even when I'm trying to push it.


It happens to me as well.  
I think I've seen same move (it looks like tapping the cube but in the air) few times at 4bld movie.


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## newtonbase (Jun 7, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> I have not tried a magnetized cube but maybe I should.



Yes, you should. 


mark49152 said:


> Last two edge targets were LD LB but the alg you noticed is an edge flip on UR and I did Bw' to set up UL to it. It's a terrible solution and I don't know why I did that instead of U2. Bad habit I guess.


What alg do you use? Mine are very easy to mirror.


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## mark49152 (Jun 7, 2017)

h2f said:


> I think I've seen same move (it looks like tapping the cube but in the air) few times at 4bld movie.


I think that's a different habit because it doesn't stabilise the cube. I do that when trying to recall memo.



newtonbase said:


> What alg do you use? Mine are very easy to mirror.


((M' U)3 M U)2. The mirror is slow for me because I can't do M slice moves with my right hand. No excuse for not doing U2 and cancelling the last move, though.


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## moralsh (Jun 7, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> Yes, you should.
> 
> What alg do you use? Mine are very easy to mirror.



I'd use L2 U' M' U L' U' M U L' or just go safe and use Advanced M2 with B'


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## h2f (Jun 7, 2017)

moralsh said:


> I'd use L2 U' M' U L' U' M U L'



Same me. In Advanced M2 I would use FU as an interchange though its a comm with setup.


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## newtonbase (Jun 7, 2017)

moralsh said:


> I'd use L2 U' M' U L' U' M U L' or just go safe and use Advanced M2 with B'


I use that alg in slow solves. Not sure I'm quite there when the timer is going though.


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## mark49152 (Jun 7, 2017)

I thought Mark was asking about the edge flip.


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## newtonbase (Jun 7, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> I thought Mark was asking about the edge flip.


I was originally.


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## mark49152 (Jun 7, 2017)

For LD LB, I use advanced M2 with cancellation. x' L U' M2 U L' U' M2 U x


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## newtonbase (Jun 7, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> For LD LB, I use advanced M2 with cancellation. x' L U' M2 U L' U' M2 U x


That's nice. I wouldn't have thought of doing it that way at all. Did you find that yourself?


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## mark49152 (Jun 7, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> That's nice. I wouldn't have thought of doing it that way at all. Did you find that yourself?


Setting up LB to UB is common in advanced M2 so I can't take credit . There are loads of nice setups. It's a good example of why I say advanced M2 gets you half-way to 3-style.


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## newtonbase (Jun 8, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> Setting up LB to UB is common in advanced M2 so I can't take credit . There are loads of nice setups. It's a good example of why I say advanced M2 gets you half-way to 3-style.


I set up UR and UL to UB quite a lot but LB and RB much less. I'm working as a poll clerk tomorrow (Today! Must get to sleep!) in a pretty quiet polling station so I'll add that to my practice plan.


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## Jason Green (Jun 8, 2017)

NewbieCuber said:


> Hi folks. I'm a new older cuber as well (in my 50s). Only yesterday did I finally memorize enough algorithms to finish the cube via the beginners method. I'm using TwistyTimer on my Android phone and I have a low time of 1:22 (which really surprised me) a high time of over 5 minutes, but my last 5 solves have averaged 2:05. 2 minutes seems to be a pretty normal average for me.
> 
> That's probably not bad for what is literally my first day. I'm happy to be able to solve it at all.


I learned years ago with animations from Lars Petrus' website. Did not even know notation. Then in 2015 I learned about f2l and got hooked. My first solve probably took a few days.  I still remember posting here about my "lucky 59" second solve. Haha



Selkie said:


> Some great results from the older brethren recently includes my UK mates, @Lid and @Jason Green


Thank you sir!



pipkiksass said:


> Not been on for ages, but I'm subscribed to @Jason Green on YT, and just watched your PB fest video, so thought I'd stop by, as it's a special occasion. I doff my hat to you, sir!!
> 
> Anyone use this forum on iOS and have any tips for getting it more like Tapatalk? I rely on notifications etc., and miss Tapatalk tbh, before I had it I was on Android, using Chrome and had it set up well, now I'm iOS and Safari and bleugh!


Thanks! Have you tried Chrome on iPhone? I use Android. I do miss the notifications on Tapatalk.


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## Lid (Jun 8, 2017)

*10.363* 3x3 single! PLLskip! PB!

F2 D2 B' R2 F R2 B2 U2 B' L2 F D L2 U L U' F2 L B' L U2 (blue cross as always)



Spoiler: entire avg 12 : 15.592



Average of 12: 15.592
1. 13.418 B R' D' R' F B2 R L' U B R2 F2 U F2 D2 B2 D B2 U' F2 U2
2. 16.305 L' B U F2 L F' R' F2 B' U' B2 R L2 B2 L' U2 R F2 R B2 L2
3. 16.171 L2 R2 B2 R2 D2 B D2 R2 F' D2 F' R D' L D2 B L U2 F2 D F'
4. 17.044 F2 R2 D' F2 L2 U2 B2 D' R2 D2 R2 B' L R D2 F2 D F L2 B' U2
5. 16.936 D U' F2 R2 U L2 B2 F2 D B' U R2 U L R D U2 F' R' U
6. 14.086 L D F' U R' B2 R F' B' L2 B2 D2 B2 R D2 F2 R' L2 D2 R
7. 17.240 F2 D' U' B2 R2 F2 R2 D L2 B2 U2 B' L2 R' D' B' L2 D U' F L
8. 15.016 U' F2 L2 R2 D B2 U' F2 D2 B2 D2 B R' D2 B2 D U L' B L' U'
9. (19.475) B' D2 L2 U2 F2 R2 F D2 F R2 B U' B' D R B' L' R' B' L U'
10. 16.460 R2 D' U2 F2 D2 B2 U' F2 U' L2 U2 B' L2 U' R2 D2 R2 B D L B2
11. 13.247 F2 U2 L2 R2 F2 D2 B L2 B' D2 B D' L F2 L' U2 R' B' L' F2
12. (10.363) F2 D2 B' R2 F R2 B2 U2 B' L2 F D L2 U L U' F2 L B' L U2


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## mark49152 (Jun 8, 2017)

And my other BLD PB from Crawley.


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## newtonbase (Jun 8, 2017)

Spent some birthday money. Very effective but I'm not sure I'll have room for any other luggage when I go to the World Championships.


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## muchacho (Jun 9, 2017)

I graduate from the race to sub-30 with OH and 4 solves later I get Mo100 PB under 30 seconds (29.974), nice timing


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## Selkie (Jun 9, 2017)

Well up until this point in time all my sub 10 second solves have been camera shy despite having over 10 of them. But practicing some high TPS 3x3 ready for London Open and managed this 9.67 on film:-






Cube: Valk M


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## pglewis (Jun 9, 2017)

Dusted off my OP/M2 execution the past couple of days. Learning bld was a big goal for me this year and I braced myself for weeks or months of learning and practice before expecting a success then was shocked to get a few full solves after a week. Well ahead of schedule and suddenly seeing 3x3 improvements I decided to stick bld in the freezer for a little while but it's time to resume.


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## mark49152 (Jun 9, 2017)

@pglewis, nice job. Welcome to the BLD club


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## pglewis (Jun 9, 2017)

I could probably be nearly comp-ready for 3-BLD by now but I haven't touched it since Jan. I went straight for learning M2 edges with no regrets there; probably a few advanced things in my near future, in particular better ways of dealing with twisted corners / flipped edges. My basic execution is nearly back up to snuff and memo is going to be a long-game, so I'm probably nearly ready for some refinements on the execution side.

I have a weird dyslexia confusing white/yellow in memo too frequently... no idea why, it's not a problem in sighted solves.


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## mark49152 (Jun 9, 2017)

pglewis said:


> I have a weird dyslexia confusing white/yellow in memo too frequently... no idea why, it's not a problem in sighted solves.


I used to have that between certain stickers, and sort of still do since there are some I tend to mix up more often than others if memoing quickly. My last solve at Crawley was DNF for exactly that reason.


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## phreaker (Jun 10, 2017)

Update:

5x5 time is now 8:00. I suspect I can go sub 8, but it is a matter of more practice. I haven't done a good 4x4 timed solve in a bit.. been working on the higher order cubes, and just enjoying solving them.

Funny story, I switched jobs recently, and I was wandering the cubes around the office... and saw an unsolved cube?! Well, that can't be... I asked its owner about it, and he said he could only solve the first face, I offered to solve it, and he took me up on it... about 2m later on this Rubik's brand cube, it is solved. I then realize.. it is a company cube. (The company logo is on the white face.) He offers me the cube saying he has another one... So I now have a company cube, that sits inside my company cube.

I'll often walk around with a 3x3 in my left hand flipping it around doing U(a)/U(b) and A(a)/A(b) and other patterns. Just fidgeting.

I don't have as much time to post, but the cubes keep getting scrambled and solved....


----------



## newtonbase (Jun 10, 2017)

pglewis said:


> probably a few advanced things in my near future, in particular better ways of dealing with twisted corners / flipped edges.


Here's my ready made guide.
To flip edges UF and UB - M' U' M' U' M' U' M' U2 M' U' M' U' M' U' M'
To flip edges UR and DF (buffer) ((M' U)3 M U)2 or switch U to U' for UL and DF (M' U M' U M' U M U M' U M' U M' U M U)
Flip DF and UB
U M' U M' U M' U M U M' U M' U M' U M
To flip all top edges M' U' M' U' M' U' M' U M' U' M' U' M' U' M' U
To twist UFL clockwise and UBL anticlockwise - 2x sexy move (R U R' U'), L', 2x reverse sexy move (U R U' R'), L. To twist them both the other way then the L moves come first so L', 2x sexy, L, 2x reverse sexy. If the piece is in DFL instead of UFL use L2 instead of the L and L' moves.
Use setups to get your pieces in the right positions first and don't forget to undo them. You can get away with just learning the first or second edge flip to begin with.
I do need to learn more corner twisting algs if anyone has anything good?



pglewis said:


> I have a weird dyslexia confusing white/yellow in memo too frequently... no idea why, it's not a problem in sighted solves.


I do exactly the same. 
Probably due to my choice of orientation.


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## mark49152 (Jun 10, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> I do need to learn more corner twisting algs if anyone has anything good?


I use pretty much the same as you posted. If two corners are twisted opposite ways I try to rotate or set them up to UFL UBL rather than do two twists with the buffer (my 5:30 4BLD at Crawley had a double twist like this). The only other thing I occasionally do is use an alg when two corners (plus the buffer) are twisted the same way. Often it's just too hard or slow to set up to, but try this: (R U R' U') (R' U')2 (R U R' U') (R2 U2)2 R' U' and inverse.


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## moralsh (Jun 10, 2017)

In this case I sometimes use a nicklas + A Perm from the same side I started the niklas, but only if I'm sure that's the case, which doesn´t happen always  With two corners I try to do left sune, right sune. I just remember the color of the face if one of the twisted corners is the buffer or just visual if not.


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## newtonbase (Jun 10, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> I use pretty much the same as you posted. If two corners are twisted opposite ways I try to rotate or set them up to UFL UBL rather than do two twists with the buffer (my 5:30 4BLD at Crawley had a double twist like this). The only other thing I occasionally do is use an alg when two corners (plus the buffer) are twisted the same way. Often it's just too hard or slow to set up to, but try this: (R U R' U') (R' U')2 (R U R' U') (R2 U2)2 R' U' and inverse.





moralsh said:


> In this case I sometimes use a nicklas + A Perm from the same side I started the niklas, but only if I'm sure that's the case, which doesn´t happen always  With two corners I try to do left sune, right sune. I just remember the color of the face if one of the twisted corners is the buffer or just visual if not.


2 options. I'll try them out. Thanks guys. 

@mark49152 I never twist an untwisted buffer if it's just 2 pieces out. Although I'm not a fan of rotations as setups there's an exception here as they don't have to be put back.


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## pglewis (Jun 10, 2017)

Thanks for the discussion on those, copying for later digestion. 

I'm back to where I left off with three solves and two near misses, first full attempts in nearly 5 months. I even memorized a scramble last night and then solved at the coffee shop this morning, I did do review but had it right. Main bottleneck is memo speed and collecting letter pairs in particular (I do have the awesome Google doc from the thread here not long ago). 

I can get it given unlimited time to be careful so I might even try two this weekend. I'm fairly confident I can retain two ad-hoc stories without building any rooms yet; memory isn't tripping me up at all at this stage (surprisingly), it's the usual silly newb mistakes.


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## newtonbase (Jun 10, 2017)

pglewis said:


> Thanks for the discussion on those, copying for later digestion.
> 
> I'm back to where I left off with three solves and two near misses, first full attempts in nearly 5 months. I even memorized a scramble last night and then solved at the coffee shop this morning, I did do review but had it right. Main bottleneck is memo speed and collecting letter pairs in particular (I do have the awesome Google doc from the thread here not long ago).
> 
> I can get it given unlimited time to be careful so I might even try two this weekend. I'm fairly confident I can retain two ad-hoc stories without building any rooms yet; memory isn't tripping me up at all at this stage (surprisingly), it's the usual silly newb mistakes.


Memo is definitely the hard part once you've learned a method and you'll get the best results from practicing it. Rooms aren't really necessary for a single cube. You could even consider audio for edges, it's quicker to memo but doesn't last long.


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## pglewis (Jun 10, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> Memo is definitely the hard part once you've learned a method and you'll get the best results from practicing it. Rooms aren't really necessary for a single cube. You could even consider audio for edges, it's quicker to memo but doesn't last long.



On rooms, what's roughly the tipping point for you? Multi blind is suddenly attractive, I think I could more readily do 3 given an hour right now than a single 3-bld in under 6 mins.


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## newtonbase (Jun 10, 2017)

pglewis said:


> On rooms, what's roughly the tipping point for you? Multi blind is suddenly attractive, I think I could more readily do 3 given an hour right now than a single 3-bld in under 6 mins.


I would use rooms for anything bigger than 1 cube. I'd probably use a room for a single cube if I wasn't using audio.


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## h2f (Jun 11, 2017)

pglewis said:


> I think I could more readily do 3 given an hour right now than a single 3-bld in under 6 mins.



But mind that according to regs you have only 10 minut limit per cube when doing less than 6 cubes.


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## pglewis (Jun 11, 2017)

h2f said:


> But mind that according to regs you have only 10 minut limit per cube when doing less than 6 cubes.



That makes perfect sense, they saw me comin'!


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## dboeren (Jun 11, 2017)

Getting back into cubing after a 2 year absence @ 45yo. I don't remember my algorithms very well and my notes from last time around are too shorthand for me to understand all of them  I had to split the document up into a new notes section with more explanation and a second section labelled "Forgotten Lore" that I hope to understand again soon. Accidentally deleted a few of my 7 CMLL algorithms so I replaced them with easier-to-remember ones for now and will probably replace them again with more efficient versions later on.

It took me about one night to get back to being able to solve (using a 2-look CMLL Roux) but I still need to brush up on a few algorithms and then start adding back in some of the extra recognition, shorter algorithms, and other "bonus" stuff.


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## muchacho (Jun 11, 2017)

Nice to see more Roux solvers here, welcome!


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## Jason Green (Jun 12, 2017)

I finally took the time to figure out why I was messing up my cross on 5x5 Hoya. Haha. Lots of cool tricks I'm enjoying it more now. I'm pretty consistently close to 3:30 now with more low 3s. I haven't broken 3 minutes yet but I think I will soon.


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## pglewis (Jun 12, 2017)

The biggest average I track at the moment is ao50 and I haven't done one of those in a couple months so it was time. Dropped it about 3 seconds and broke every other PB except single, in the process. Very promising to hit a spell with a lot of sub 30s-- nearly half the solves overall-- and only a smattering of disaster solves. Time distribution is slowly creeping to where low 20s aren't as much of a lightning strike for me.


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## dboeren (Jun 12, 2017)

muchacho said:


> Nice to see more Roux solvers here, welcome!



Thanks  I was attracted to Roux by the prospect of less memorization in favor of a more "intuitive" approach. Seems like that's a particularly good call if you need to relearn your set of algorithms again later  I tried doing a CFOP tutorial once but it seemed more complicated to me.

Also... my existing cubes were all from 2015 and earlier of course and now that you can get magnetic cubes inexpensively with the GTS2M I decided I should pick one up and see what that's about. OH. MY. GOD. I used to think I had some pretty nice cubes. I have an Aolong v2, Weilong v2, Yuxin Zhishing, and a Cong Yueying. But this thing just feels amazing. Makes me wonder what the Valk 3M must be like (whether the commercial version or TheCubicle's customized version).


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## Selkie (Jun 12, 2017)

Not ordered any new cubes in a while so just ordered a couple of premium cubes:-

Cubicle Labs WeiLong GTS2 M - Always wanted a WeiLong GTS but only just noticed you can get stickerless.
Cubicle Labs WuQue M - Hmm a magnetic 4x4

Really hoping they arrive in time to get a good try with them before London Open


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## NewbieCuber (Jun 12, 2017)

Less than 2 weeks in and I'm starting to clear the 2 minute mark using the beginner method more consistently. I just had a 1:33 and then I did a solve where I completely messed up my cross and had to go back and still got a 1:55.

This is fun!


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## One Wheel (Jun 13, 2017)

NewbieCuber said:


> Less than 2 weeks in and I'm starting to clear the 2 minute mark using the beginner method more consistently. I just had a 1:33 and then I did a solve where I completely messed up my cross and had to go back and still got a 1:55.
> 
> This is fun!



That's quite good progress! If you think 3x3 is fun, though, you should try 4x4+! My personal favorite at the moment has to be 6x6, but at close to 2:00 for 3x3 you'd probably be looking at 15-20 minutes even if you knew the 3 1/2 parity algs for 6x6, which is just frustrating. I do recommend you give 4x4 a try sooner rather than later, though.


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## Jlvs2run (Jun 13, 2017)

dboeren said:


> It took me about one night to get back to being able to solve (using a 2-look CMLL Roux) but I still need to brush up on a few algorithms and then start adding back in some of the extra recognition, shorter algorithms, and other "bonus" stuff.



After nearly a year absence, my first solve took 5 1/2 minutes, mostly due to not remembering corners, but in 20 solves I was beating my times, and got a new PB (45.48) yesterday. Three algorithms are plenty for me, Niklas for corner placement, Anti Sune and Sune for orientation. When I don't do the cube for awhile, they are easy to remember. I learned Donovan's two look CMLL a year ago (nine algorithms), but they turned out be more complicated with more moves and slower.


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## pglewis (Jun 13, 2017)

Sort of related to re-learning algs: I forgot that AUF matters for E-perm at some point. I've been treating it like N-perm for weeks, maybe months, where I just do the alg without regard to AUF beforehand... and like something out of Rosencrantz and Guildenstern Are Dead it has actually been working. At least, until a few days back when it showed up in a flurry but failed every time instead, leaving me with an H-perm. I did have a recent hiatus of about a month with very little practice but I think it actually predates that. Just one of those weird humorous things and makes me wonder if I actually flipped heads 100 times in a row.


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## newtonbase (Jun 13, 2017)

pglewis said:


> Sort of related to re-learning algs: I forgot that AUF matters for E-perm at some point. I've been treating it like N-perm for weeks, maybe months, where I just do the alg without regard to AUF beforehand... and like something out of Rosencrantz and Guildenstern Are Dead it has actually been working. At least, until a few days back when it showed up in a flurry but failed every time instead, leaving me with an H-perm. I did have a recent hiatus of about a month with very little practice but I think it actually predates that. Just one of those weird humorous things and makes me wonder if I actually flipped heads 100 times in a row.


I really dislike E perm. The solve is OK but it takes me an age to get the AUF right first.


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## pglewis (Jun 13, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> I really dislike E perm. The solve is OK but it takes me an age to get the AUF right first.



I really like it, aesthetically; a very pleasing symmetry. But it's definitely faster for me to execute when I just magically get it right without looking lol


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## NewbieCuber (Jun 13, 2017)

One Wheel said:


> That's quite good progress! If you think 3x3 is fun, though, you should try 4x4+! My personal favorite at the moment has to be 6x6, but at close to 2:00 for 3x3 you'd probably be looking at 15-20 minutes even if you knew the 3 1/2 parity algs for 6x6, which is just frustrating. I do recommend you give 4x4 a try sooner rather than later, though.



I just started playing with a 4x4 2 nights ago. You're right, they're lots of fun. I was actually thinking that it was pretty easy until I got to the flipping dedges and parity algs. I kept thinking "How can I possibly have only one flipped edge on the whole cube? Oh, yeah, it's actually 2 pieces and you always change piece positions in pairs.


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## One Wheel (Jun 13, 2017)

NewbieCuber said:


> I just started playing with a 4x4 2 nights ago. You're right, they're lots of fun. I was actually thinking that it was pretty easy until I got to the flipping dedges and parity algs. I kept thinking "How can I possibly have only one flipped edge on the whole cube? Oh, yeah, it's actually 2 pieces and you always change piece positions in pairs.



Yeah, it takes a couple more algs, but in general the bigger the cube the higher the ratio of intuitive/logical solve to algorithmic solve. Megaminx also, is roughly comparable to 5x5 in terms of average solve time, but probably somewhere between 5x5 and 6x6 in terms of percentage of the solve that is algorithmic.


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## newtonbase (Jun 13, 2017)

pglewis said:


> I really like it, aesthetically; a very pleasing symmetry. But it's definitely faster for me to execute when I just magically get it right without looking lol


Yes. I think I'd be quicker overall if I just did the alg straight away and then fix it with the H perm if necessary.


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## Malkom (Jun 13, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> Yes. I think I'd be quicker overall if I just did the alg straight away and then fix it with the H perm if necessary.


Just look at FRU and RU, if it's a checkerpattern it's correct if it's not just do a U/U'.


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## mark49152 (Jun 13, 2017)

3BLD PB utterly smashed with a 42.55. Scramble was easy, 8/6 with sub-20 memo.


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## newtonbase (Jun 13, 2017)

Malkom said:


> Just look at FRU and RU, if it's a checkerpattern it's correct if it's not just do a U/U'.


Thanks. I'll give that a try. 



mark49152 said:


> 3BLD PB utterly smashed with a 42.55. Scramble was easy, 8/6 with sub-20 memo.


Wow, that's impressive. More than twice as fast as my PB. What's your usual memo time at the moment?


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## teacher77 (Jun 13, 2017)

Impressive new PB single today : 16.41 s, down from last week's 17.57 s (which was barely down from my mid-April 17.69s). That's for the good news.

Bad news : I went to my second comp 2-3 weeks ago and again performed like s**t : 31s Ao5 with a PB of 26s. On my 5th solve, I managed to execute a wrong PLL 3 times in a row !

I really get too nervous on a stage with hundreds of people watching. At least I got my official Ao5 down by 6 sec or so compared to Febuary's comp. Considering my unofficial PBs went down by only half that during the same delay, I'd say it's a nice improvement.


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## mark49152 (Jun 14, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> What's your usual memo time at the moment?


Typically 25-30. How's your progress these days? Still doing MBLD over lunch?


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## pglewis (Jun 14, 2017)

teacher77 said:


> Bad news : I went to my second comp 2-3 weeks ago and again performed like s**t : 31s Ao5 with a PB of 26s. On my 5th solve, I managed to execute a wrong PLL 3 times in a row !


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## Jason Green (Jun 14, 2017)

teacher77 said:


> Impressive new PB single today : 16.41 s, down from last week's 17.57 s (which was barely down from my mid-April 17.69s). That's for the good news.
> 
> Bad news : I went to my second comp 2-3 weeks ago and again performed like s**t : 31s Ao5 with a PB of 26s. On my 5th solve, I managed to execute a wrong PLL 3 times in a row !
> 
> I really get too nervous on a stage with hundreds of people watching. At least I got my official Ao5 down by 6 sec or so compared to Febuary's comp. Considering my unofficial PBs went down by only half that during the same delay, I'd say it's a nice improvement.


I'm more nervous in front of friends, because I may be the best or only person they have seen do it. At comp I'm nothing compared to most of them so the crowd doesn't bother me, just nerves from wanting to do well.


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## newtonbase (Jun 14, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> Typically 25-30. How's your progress these days? Still doing MBLD over lunch?


I'm improving slowly. Did a couple of mini sessions yesterday and times ranged from 1:40 to 2:16 at about 60% success. I find that the quicker ones are more likely to be successful.
MBLD is on the back burner after I beat my 4/4 target for the year. As I'm only doing 3BLD and pyraminx at the WCs I'm focussing on 3BLD until then (I'll look at pyraminx on the day if I get bored). Still spending too much time on comms and not enough on memo but then its a hobby not a job. After that I'll be learning 4BLD in time for the UKs (finally).
TLDR - 3BLD good and nothing else matters.


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## h2f (Jun 14, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> 3BLD PB utterly smashed with a 42.55. Scramble was easy, 8/6 with sub-20 memo.


Nice!


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## muchacho (Jun 14, 2017)

29.501 OH Mo100 PB (from 29.974), I'm still improving just by practicing more... so I'll practice more


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## NewbieCuber (Jun 14, 2017)

teacher77 said:


> Impressive new PB single today : 16.41 s, down from last week's 17.57 s (which was barely down from my mid-April 17.69s). That's for the good news.
> 
> Bad news : I went to my second comp 2-3 weeks ago and again performed like s**t : 31s Ao5 with a PB of 26s. On my 5th solve, I managed to execute a wrong PLL 3 times in a row !
> 
> I really get too nervous on a stage with hundreds of people watching. At least I got my official Ao5 down by 6 sec or so compared to Febuary's comp. Considering my unofficial PBs went down by only half that during the same delay, I'd say it's a nice improvement.




I've been a musician all my life and I've taught guitar, mandolin, and banjo for the past 12 years. I find that the same thing happens when musicians perform live. The stuff that was easy in rehearsal falls apart in front of people.

My advice is to remember that going to comps is also practice. You're practicing how to perform in front of people. In music, I always suggest that people go find open mic nights to perform their music just to build up that experience of performing in front of a group of people. For cubers I might suggest setting up a mock competition with a couple friends. Have them scramble the cubes and do the 15 second review timing and so on. The more experience you have in an environment similar to a competition environment the more comfortable you'll be.


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## NewbieCuber (Jun 14, 2017)

I'm getting better!  2 weeks in and my averages on a 3x3 are:

Ao 50 : 2:19.27
Ao 12 : 1:54.03
Ao 5 : 1.47.30

It's moving in the right direction.


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## mark49152 (Jun 14, 2017)

NewbieCuber said:


> My advice is to remember that going to comps is also practice. You're practicing how to perform in front of people.


Yeah that's true. Also, in my experience, the more you care the worse you'll do. It's only a hobby so try to relax and focus on having fun.


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## pglewis (Jun 14, 2017)

NewbieCuber said:


> I've been a musician all my life and I've taught guitar, mandolin, and banjo for the past 12 years. I find that the same thing happens when musicians perform live. The stuff that was easy in rehearsal falls apart in front of people.
> 
> My advice is to remember that going to comps is also practice. You're practicing how to perform in front of people. In music, I always suggest that people go find open mic nights to perform their music just to build up that experience of performing in front of a group of people. For cubers I might suggest setting up a mock competition with a couple friends. Have them scramble the cubes and do the 15 second review timing and so on. The more experience you have in an environment similar to a competition environment the more comfortable you'll be.



Similar background and I agree. It comes down to my confidence, if I'm well rehearsed on the material and used to playing live then the nerves don't get me much, at least, nothing a pint or two can't fix. At my last comp I still felt that wave of brain-attacking adrenaline the moment they called my heat. But until I'm more confident I simply set conservative goals for myself: what I expect at home and what I expect from comp are two different things until it all becomes old hat. Those two worlds are getting a little closer together after each one I attend.


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## pipkiksass (Jun 14, 2017)

Crazy lack of cubing time these days, very sad! When I cube late at night I'm significantly slower, and my only other opportunities are the odd lunch break.

Mentioned on here last week that I'd bought a GTS2 M from The Cubicle, along with both Cubicle Labs lubes. 3x3 is going so-so, although the GTS has replaced my DIY Valk M as my main. 

My main improvement has been 4x4, which I haven't practiced in months. Dropped some DNM 37 on my WuQue, and did about 6 solves... lowered my single pb from 1:08.xx to 1:00.xx! In half a dozen solves! Having not solved a 4x4 in AGES! Honestly, the stuff must be magic juice or something.

Did my first 4x4 "session" in a long time today, probably upwards of 2 months, when I was averaging 1:30ish. Did 14 solves today and hit 1:10.52 Ao12 (old PB was 1:18.80) and 1:08.08 Ao5 (old PB was 1:15.48)!

When I get the chance to do another 30 solves and roll the average to 50 I'm sure that'll go too.

Just goes to show, often a change is as good as a rest - too much practice maybe isn't that good for you? When I was TRYING to improve at 4x4 I failed, now I suddenly seem to have lost 10 seconds off my times without even doing 4x4!?

So yeah, maybe try DNM37, it's just possibly magic juice?


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## h2f (Jun 14, 2017)

@pipkiksass Maybe it's a matter of a break, not lube... Or both.


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## pipkiksass (Jun 14, 2017)

Lol, just noticed my Ao5 pb is lower than my single PB was 2 days ago!!!


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## pglewis (Jun 15, 2017)

The planets are aligning just as I'd hoped: there's now a comp in Nashville in Sept. that will be holding 3-bld, which is the perfect time-frame I was looking for. 10 min cumulative limit with no soft cut so I expect to attempt one careful solve to get a success; I don't expect to be under 5 mins by then to get a second shot at it in my first go. 

I've been making 3 or 4 attempts a day (still a _lot_ of time spent finding and filling-in images in the spreadsheet) with 1 or 2 successes per day since I've started making full attempts again. I've been attempting one a day at the coffee shop without the aid of my spreadsheet for a better reality test and got a success there today. I even mis-memoed a B corner as a C but immediately realized it was wrong during execution. I'm still so slow and deliberate that I can practically remember the corner cycles spatially. No timer involved so far and I probably won't bother for a few weeks. I've had at least one unaided success while "pushing" that was almost certainly under 10 mins, so now I build as much of a safety cushion as I can to land 1/1 under comp conditions in a few months. 

The single most important thing for me right now is collecting images. That's where I spend the most time and it's especially apparent when I'm unaided by my spreadsheet. Second biggest time-eater would be tracking edge cycles when they get more complex.


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## pglewis (Jun 15, 2017)

And on the subject of images, I find myself leaning strongly towards using two words for letter pairs rather than the traditional wisdom of one short word. I find that the memory cost for me is for the image itself and not the length of the word or words. "Rocket Launcher" is a very clear, vivid image that I can easily drop into an ad-hoc story and it doesn't have the ambiguity of "rail" (is that "RA" or "RL"?) at a time where I haven't even fully built, much less memorized, the matrix from hell. Also far less likely to inadvertently duplicate images (the public spreadsheet that was in a recent thread includes "moon" for both MO and MN). "The Declaration of Independence" is a mouthful but it has worked very quickly and reliably as DI for me, it's a very clear image.


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## newtonbase (Jun 15, 2017)

pglewis said:


> The planets are aligning just as I'd hoped: there's now a comp in Nashville in Sept. that will be holding 3-bld, which is the perfect time-frame I was looking for. 10 min cumulative limit with no soft cut so I expect to attempt one careful solve to get a success; I don't expect to be under 5 mins by then to get a second shot at it in my first go.
> 
> I've been making 3 or 4 attempts a day (still a _lot_ of time spent finding and filling-in images in the spreadsheet) with 1 or 2 successes per day since I've started making full attempts again. I've been attempting one a day at the coffee shop without the aid of my spreadsheet for a better reality test and got a success there today. I even mis-memoed a B corner as a C but immediately realized it was wrong during execution. I'm still so slow and deliberate that I can practically remember the corner cycles spatially. No timer involved so far and I probably won't bother for a few weeks. I've had at least one unaided success while "pushing" that was almost certainly under 10 mins, so now I build as much of a safety cushion as I can to land 1/1 under comp conditions in a few months.
> 
> The single most important thing for me right now is collecting images. That's where I spend the most time and it's especially apparent when I'm unaided by my spreadsheet. Second biggest time-eater would be tracking edge cycles when they get more complex.





pglewis said:


> And on the subject of images, I find myself leaning strongly towards using two words for letter pairs rather than the traditional wisdom of one short word. I find that the memory cost for me is for the image itself and not the length of the word or words. "Rocket Launcher" is a very clear, vivid image that I can easily drop into an ad-hoc story and it doesn't have the ambiguity of "rail" (is that "RA" or "RL"?) at a time where I haven't even fully built, much less memorized, the matrix from hell. Also far less likely to inadvertently duplicate images (the public spreadsheet that was in a recent thread includes "moon" for both MO and MN). "The Declaration of Independence" is a mouthful but it has worked very quickly and reliably as DI for me, it's a very clear image.


You are doing the right thing compiling a proper list. It'll serve you well. 
I also agree with taking your time in competition. You might still DNF but you're giving yourself the best chance. Pushing memo is the thing that has given me the best results improvement time wise but that should be saved for practice once you are confident with the process.


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## mark49152 (Jun 15, 2017)

pglewis said:


> And on the subject of images, I find myself leaning strongly towards using two words for letter pairs rather than the traditional wisdom of one short word. I find that the memory cost for me is for the image itself and not the length of the word or words. "Rocket Launcher" is a very clear, vivid image that I can easily drop into an ad-hoc story and it doesn't have the ambiguity of "rail" (is that "RA" or "RL"?)


That is fine. It's one pair = one image. IMHO it doesn't matter that the image has a two-word name. The info you memorize is just as efficient.

You're on the right track, just keep on practising and you'll easily be ready to fit two attempts into that 10 minute limit by September. You'll be surprised how fast you improve if you practise systematically. As @newtonbase said, pushing memo gives the biggest gains, but actually, pushing memo at your level is less about speed and more about being brave and trusting yourself. 

Remember that repetition is the most powerful way to get memo to stick, much more so than going slowly. Try this: scan your edges or corners, whichever you do first, to the point where you have pictured an image scene, but do not dwell on it trying to "force" it into memory. Just move on, even if you know you will immediately forget it. That's OK. Now memo the other piece type the same way. Then come back to the first set. Try to remember it, but if you can't, don't waste time racking your brains, just immediately memo it again - which is helpful anyway because you can check you scanned the cube right. Then move on again. Repeat until the memo has stuck, but it's important to alternate between piece types. Usually it'll stick by the third iteration and you'll be surprised how strong it is. You'll probably still remember it the next day .

TL;DR: three quick, cursory memo iterations are more effective than one slow, careful memo.


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## newtonbase (Jun 16, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> IMHO it doesn't matter that the image has a two-word name.


Yes, it makes no difference how long it takes to write or say the image. I use a lot of people's initials and for N as a single letter I have Negasonic Teenage Warhead! 
Yesterday I had JI as a pair. For me that's the actor John Inman. For some reason his actual name went completely out of my head but as I had those letters associated with his image it didn't matter.


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## h2f (Jun 16, 2017)

pglewis said:


> I've been making 3 or 4 attempts a day (still a _lot_ of time spent finding and filling-in images in the spreadsheet) with 1 or 2 successes per day since I've started making full attempts again.



I remeber me doing 5 solves per day. After 7 months I was succeseed at a competition with time 4:30 on the first attempt and 2:34 on the second when the stress came down. You are on the good route. Keep it up!


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## pglewis (Jun 16, 2017)

Thanks for the tips and support



mark49152 said:


> TL;DR: three quick, cursory memo iterations are more effective than one slow, careful memo.



This will be a hard habit for a perfectionist to break but I totally see the wisdom. I gave it a shot at my morning cafe solve and was definitely much faster. Sure, I missed an unsetup somewhere and was off by a couple pieces but I don't think memo was to blame.


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## h2f (Jun 16, 2017)

pglewis said:


> This will be a hard habit for a perfectionist to break but I totally see the wisdom. I gave it a shot at my morning cafe solve and was definitely much faster. Sure, I missed an unsetup somewhere and was off by a couple pieces but I don't think memo was to blame.



Do you practcie pure algs in sight solving? The idea behind this is you could do all algorithms (setup + alg) without thinking.


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## pglewis (Jun 16, 2017)

h2f said:


> Do you practcie pure algs in sight solving? The idea behind this is you could do all algorithms (setup + alg) without thinking.



If you mean sighted OP/M2 practice, then yeah. I've only been back at it for a couple weeks but I've been doing a session of sighted execution practice every few days. It also helps my "letter assignment" which still requires more thinking than it should. I've improved a lot at seeing a piece and knowing where it goes just on spatial relationship, but it takes me a second or two longer to put a letter to it still. Just practice.


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## mafergut (Jun 16, 2017)

Hi guys! Still reading you once or twice a week. Not a lot of practice, though but it doesn't seem like I'm becoming slower just yet. At least at 3x3. The other day I got an OH PB single, so close to sub-20 but nope, it was a 20.22 (PLL skip). Impressed by all your progress, in particular @muchacho is becoming very fast at OH. I just can hit sub-30 seconds like 5 to 10% of the time and you are already sub-30 globally.

Also, even though I have problems finding time to practice lately I decided that the collecting part of the hobby was also fun so I ordered the missing pieces in my ShengShou Mastermorphix series (basically everything but the 3x3, which I already had). So, yeah, I ordered the 2x2, 4x4 and the newly released 5x5. I plan on stopping there even if they release higher order ones.

I'll try to be in contact. Cheers


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## moralsh (Jun 16, 2017)

After like 50 or more sub 1:05, about 15-20% of that with parity and a couple of doubles. I had 2 close sub 1 yesterday
1:00.43 missing space bar and hitting it later
1:00.58 with OLL parity

Then I had a 59.51 explosion on the last turn.

I was angry at not getting the sub 1 and then Alberto ( @APdRF ) told me that I'd already should have at least 5 sub 1 if I stopped looking at the timer. 

I turned off updating on cstimer and next solve... bang 59.85. Now let's try to make that an official single


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## h2f (Jun 16, 2017)

pglewis said:


> If you mean sighted OP/M2 practice, then yeah



Yes. You are going to make a nice progress very soon.


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## newtonbase (Jun 16, 2017)

I try not to do too much sighted practice in blind, especially for comms. I find that the focus is different and I don't learn too well. I'd rather plan a couple of pieces, execute them blind, and then check them. It can be a little harder to work out where the mistakes were made but I learn better that way. I'm sure it's horses for courses.


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## Gomorrite (Jun 17, 2017)

I'm an old cuber who has never solved it blindfolded. I made a first but weak attempt to learn 7 years ago, with the Old Pochmann method, then I stopped cubing until very recently. The furthest I got was solving all the edges with the cube under the table while looking at some notes. Now I see that the most recommended method for beginners is M2 for edges, but OP for corners. I wonder, is this much faster than full OP? I have already read about and understood the whole M2/OP, I just need to put it to practice, but I'm so lazy...


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## h2f (Jun 17, 2017)

Gomorrite said:


> Now I see that the most recommended method for beginners is M2 for edges, but OP for corners. I wonder, is this much faster than full OP? I have already read about and understood the whole M2/OP, I just need to put it to practice, but I'm so lazy...



M2 is much faster than OP for edges - it's almost as fast as Turbo.


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## newtonbase (Jun 17, 2017)

Gomorrite said:


> I'm an old cuber who has never solved it blindfolded. I made a first but weak attempt to learn 7 years ago, with the Old Pochmann method, then I stopped cubing until very recently. The furthest I got was solving all the edges with the cube under the table while looking at some notes. Now I see that the most recommended method for beginners is M2 for edges, but OP for corners. I wonder, is this much faster than full OP? I have already read about and understood the whole M2/OP, I just need to put it to practice, but I'm so lazy...





h2f said:


> M2 is much faster than OP for edges - it's almost as fast as Turbo.


Yes. Slightly harder to learn but much lower move count.


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## mark49152 (Jun 17, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> I try not to do too much sighted practice in blind, especially for comms. I find that the focus is different and I don't learn too well.


As you say, it's horses for courses, but I do think for people who are learning BLD it makes no sense to practise blind with a method they cannot yet do sighted. I've read messages here where people say they struggle with M2 because they can't figure out what's going on with the M slice. Well, actually it's pretty easy to see what's going on if you let yourself see it .



h2f said:


> M2 is much faster than OP for edges - it's almost as fast as Turbo.


Great, another M2 versus Turbo debate . Of course the obvious question is what you mean by "fast" as speed is not something that can be objectively measured for a method. M2 has lower move count, simpler setups, and the advantage that there are many advanced techniques that can take you a long way towards 3-style. Some of those techniques bring in the best bits of Turbo anyway, like setups to U M' U2 M U.


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## h2f (Jun 17, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> Great, another M2 versus Turbo debate . Of course the obvious question is what you mean by "fast" as speed is not something that can be objectively measured for a method. M2 has lower move count, simpler setups, and the advantage that there are many advanced techniques that can take you a long way towards 3-style. Some of those techniques bring in the best bits of Turbo anyway, like setups to U M' U2 M U.



It's not a start of a debate. It's only comparison.


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## mark49152 (Jun 17, 2017)

h2f said:


> It's not a start of a debate. It's only comparison.


It would be fun and interesting to compare Turbo and M2 example solutions. We could take three scrambles and I could do M2 if you'll do Turbo. What do you think? First three scrambles from the BLD race thread?


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## h2f (Jun 17, 2017)

Yes, we can try it. Pure M2 (no advanced tricks) versus Turbo? And we scramble in a orientation we solve?


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## pglewis (Jun 17, 2017)

Gomorrite said:


> Now I see that the most recommended method for beginners is M2 for edges, but OP for corners. I wonder, is this much faster than full OP? I have already read about and understood the whole M2/OP, I just need to put it to practice, but I'm so lazy...



I learned M2 edges from the start based on the advice here and I'm glad I did. It's not _that_ much more complicated than OP despite initial appearances. I was comfortable with OP corner execution in a day since I know Y-Perm well and the setups are very intuitive. M2 took me about 3 days to get relatively comfortable with execution; definitely a significant difference relatively but still not much of a time-sink in the big picture. YMMV. 



mark49152 said:


> As you say, it's horses for courses, but I do think for people who are learning BLD it makes no sense to practise blind with a method they cannot yet do sighted.



Thumbs up, for sure. I can catch execution errors and determine the cause (mostly mistaken white/yellow swapping, forgetting to flip odd M-slice targets). It's also like flash-cards for assigning letters. My recognition is okay spatially but it still takes me extra time to translate the position to Speffz. Sighted blind "on the fly"-- without memo-- throws letters at me at a faster pace and I obviously get a lot more solves by skipping memo. Most of my focus is on full blind practice because following edge cycles needs a lot of work but doing a sighted session every few days has been a fruitful complement while Speffz is still a thinking matter. Assigning letters for @newtonbase is probably automatic at this point.


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## pglewis (Jun 17, 2017)

h2f said:


> Yes, we can try it. Pure M2 (no advanced tricks) versus Turbo? And we scramble in a orientation we solve?



Into The Octagon!


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## newtonbase (Jun 17, 2017)

*Let's get ready to rumble!!! *


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## newtonbase (Jun 17, 2017)

pglewis said:


> Assigning letters for @newtonbase is probably automatic at this point


I'm still not fast enough. It's worth practicing on it's own.


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## h2f (Jun 17, 2017)

One more question - corners with OP including Jperm and Yperm?


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## mark49152 (Jun 17, 2017)

h2f said:


> Yes, we can try it. Pure M2 (no advanced tricks) versus Turbo? And we scramble in a orientation we solve?


I will post solutions that I would use in a real solve, so maybe a few tricks, but fundamentally M2. Same should go for Turbo. It's not so interesting to see "vanilla" solutions, but also not interesting to see unrealistic tricks that turn it into a different method. I'm interested to learn more about how Turbo would be used for real by an experienced Turbo user, too. Maybe others will post better M2 solutions too.

Here we go. Scramble in solving orientation.

1. D2 L2 U2 B F2 U2 F' U2 R2 D2 F2 U R' B D' F' D B2 R2 F2 

[L R: U M' U2 M U] // BL FR 9/9
x' [U L U': M2] // LD 7/16
[U' R' U: M2] x // RD 7/23
M2 // UB 1/24
Uw2 M' Uw2 M' // UF DB 4/28
x' [U L' U': M2] x // LU 7/35
[U' L' U: M2] // FL 7/42
x' [U' R U: M2] x // RU 7/49
[R': ((M' U)3 M U)2] // flip RB 18/68

2. U2 L' D2 L' D2 R' D2 F2 U2 L2 U L2 U' F' L' D' L' R D2 U 

[U' L' U: M2] // FL 7/7
x' [U L' U': M2] x // LU 7/14
U R2 U' M2 U R' U' M2 U R' U' // DR FR 11/25
M' U2 M U2 // UB UF 4/29
[B': [U R' U', M2]] // BU LB 10/39
[U R' U': M2] // BR 7/46
[L2: U M' U2 M U] // DL UR 7/53
U2 M' U2 M' // DB 4/57
[U' L U: M2] // BL 7/64
[D' L2 D: M2] // parity for OP 7/71

3. R2 U B2 U' L2 F2 D' F2 L2 D L2 F' U2 B' D2 R F'U2 F' D F2 

[Uw: [U R' U', M2]] // LB UL 10/10
x' [U L U': M2] x // LD 7/17
[L' R: U' M' U2 M U'] // FR FL 9/26
[Bw: U M' U2 M U] // RU RD 7/33
(U M')3 U M (U M')4 // BU 16/49
M Uw2 M Uw2 // UF DB 4/53
[U R' U': M2] // BR 7/60
U2 M' U2 M' // DB 4/64


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## h2f (Jun 17, 2017)

@mark49152 What about parity? Only preparation to solve it?


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## h2f (Jun 17, 2017)

1. D2 L2 U2 B F2 U2 F' U2 R2 D2 F2 U R' B D' F' D B2 R2 F2

D' R2 U' R U R' U' M' U R U' r' U R2 D //DB-LU 15/15
L' U' R' U' R U M U' R' U r U L //LF-RU 13/28
D R2 Lw U' M' U2 M U' Lw' R2 D'//FD-LB 13/39
L2 R U' r' U' R U M' U' R' U R U R' L2 //RF DL 15/54
R2U U' r' U' R U M' U' R' U R U U' //RD BU 15/69
U2 R2 U R' U' R' U2 r U R U' r' R //flip 12/81
alg.cubing.net

There's few cancelation in last targets and flips. The flip starts with R' but it cancels wit last R and I'm sure I would cancel it (i do the same cancelations now). There's also few U/U' but I'm not sure if I would cancel it - I was using Turbo only few months.

2. U2 L' D2 L' D2 R' D2 F2 U2 L2 U L2 U' F' L' D' L' R D2 U 
R' U' R U M U' R' U r //BU-UR 9/9
L D' Rw2 U M U2 M' U Rw2 D //DB BL 11/20
L Rw' U' M' U2 M U' Rw L2 //RB-LD 8/28
M U' M' U2 M U' M' //RU LU 7/35
D2 R Lw2 U' M U2 M' U' Lw2 R' //DR-FR 11/46
D' L' Rw2 U M U2 M' U Rw2 L D' //DF FL 10/56
U' r U R' U' M U R U' R' U //UL UR 11/67

alg.cubing.net

I've added some cancelation (like L L2 = L') which are obvious and I'm sure I would use it.

3. R2 U B2 U' L2 F2 D' F2 L2 D L2 F' U2 B' D2 R F'U2 F' D F2 

D R2 L U' R U R' U' M' U R U' r' UL' R2 // DF LB 17/17
D R2 U' R' U' R U M U' R' U r U R2 D2 //UL LD 14/31
L' R M2 U M U2 M' U M2 L R' //FR FL 11/42
D2 L2 M U' M' U2 M U' M' L2 D2//RU RD 11/53
R' U U' r U R' U' M U R U' R' U U' //BU RB 14/67
D L2 M U M' U2 M U M' L2 D' R //BD RB 12/79
alg.cubing.net
Same situation like in solve no1. There are few cancelation. I think experienced cuber would use it. It brings solution down to 75 if it counts.


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## mark49152 (Jun 17, 2017)

h2f said:


> One more question - corners with OP including Jperm and Yperm?


No corners.



h2f said:


> @mark49152 What about parity? Only preparation to solve it?


Not sure it matters for comparison, but I just left two edges swapped and no other pieces displaced.

Edit: Are you sure you scrambled #1 right? Assuming UF buffer I make the first two targets DB LU.


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## chtiger (Jun 17, 2017)

Gomorrite said:


> I wonder, is this much faster than full OP?


It should be about 15 seconds faster.


With the official WR 7x7 mean now faster than my best unofficial 4x4 single, it's time to practice 4x4 again. What's the best method for someone who is terrible at finding and pairing up the edges? My current PB was set using r2 for edges. There should be a faster method than that. Any simple tips and tricks that I probably don't know?


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## NewbieCuber (Jun 17, 2017)

Today I've made big progress. Still using the beginner's method but my goal was to average less than 1:30.

Today's times:

Average of 5 1:24.82
Average of 12 1:27.81
New Personal Best 1:02.79

I have yet to get a sub 1 minute solve. But one of the things Youtuber "Spotty" suggested was not to try switching to CFOP until your beginner's method was consistently below 1:30. I can see why. There's a lot to learn just on handling the cube smoothly, not mistaking clockwise vs counter-clockwise algs. Getting faster at the cross, etc.

I've been practicing the 3 F2L moves separately. I think I'll wait until I can consistently (over 25 solves or more) get below 1:30 before I start changing methods. Then the real work starts with memorizing OLL and PLL.

What a blast it's been learning this cube though.


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## h2f (Jun 17, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> No corners.
> 
> 
> Not sure it matters for comparison, but I just left two edges swapped and no other pieces displaced.
> ...



Now corrected. I've taken wrong scramble.


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## h2f (Jun 17, 2017)

@mark49152 @newtonbase 

I was feeling it because I've counted once average number of moves for both methods for any targets. I wasnt very detailed counting Turbo targets but my careful conclusion was that M2 has a little bit lower movecount. Although our sample is small it is clear that in 2 of 3 the movecount in M2 solution was much lower than in Turbo. It's not a big surprise. In Poland Maskow often suggests that M2 is a **** method but in my opinion he's wrong. He claims it due to UF buffer and transition to comms but the results show that 3 best times in 3bld are made with DF buffer. M2 has also big potential in easy transition to 3style. In fact 3style algs I'm using are mostly advanced M2 tricks plus some usefull comms and algs. Nothing more.


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## One Wheel (Jun 17, 2017)

NewbieCuber said:


> Today I've made big progress. Still using the beginner's method but my goal was to average less than 1:30.
> 
> Today's times:
> 
> ...



I don't remember when I switched, and if you're enjoying it that's certainly the main thing, but generally I'm not a fan of waiting until a certain speed or anything else to learn something new. Just go ahead and learn it, and especially with f2l, in the process of learning you will get a better feel for what the cube is doing and get faster. Just my 2 cents.


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## newtonbase (Jun 17, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> Here we go. Scramble in solving orientation.
> 
> 1. D2 L2 U2 B F2 U2 F' U2 R2 D2 F2 U R' B D' F' D B2 R2 F2
> 
> ...


I would have done most of those in a very similar way but one thing I notice is that I only use comms/tricks with a letter pair but you will use the 2nd letter from 1 pair and the 1st from the next such a when you did UB on its own then a UF DB comm trick. 
A couple other differences - for RU RD you use the Bw setup where I use [U M' U': L2]. 
Do you know this for LD RD - M' D' M D2 M' D' M?


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## Fyzzna (Jun 17, 2017)

One Wheel said:


> I don't remember when I switched, and if you're enjoying it that's certainly the main thing, but generally I'm not a fan of waiting until a certain speed or anything else to learn something new. Just go ahead and learn it, and especially with f2l, in the process of learning you will get a better feel for what the cube is doing and get faster. Just my 2 cents.


I very much agree, never been a fan of waiting until you are below an arbitrary time before learning something new. 
Although CFOP is the most commonly used method, I would suggest you look through this thread and play around with some other methods before you decide which one to go with.


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## h2f (Jun 17, 2017)

I've counted avg number of moves per alg + setup it goes like Turbo is around 6,8 per target and M2 is around 5,8 per target.


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## mark49152 (Jun 17, 2017)

h2f said:


> I was feeling it because I've counted once average number of moves for both methods for any targets. I wasnt very detailed counting Turbo targets but my careful conclusion was that M2 has a little bit lower movecount. Although our sample is small it is clear that in 2 of 3 the movecount in M2 solution was much lower than in Turbo. It's not a big surprise. In Poland Maskow often suggests that M2 is a **** method but in my opinion he's wrong. He claims it due to UF buffer and transition to comms but the results show that 3 best times in 3bld are made with DF buffer. M2 has also big potential in easy transition to 3style. In fact 3style algs I'm using are mostly advanced M2 tricks plus some usefull comms and algs. Nothing more.


Thanks for doing this, it was interesting and I think I understand Turbo a bit better now. From previous discussions on the forum it seems there's not much of a difference between UF and DR buffers. It's just preference. Move count is not hugely different (it might be less than vanilla M2) and the setups aren't as bad as I expected. The algs also seem quite nice, just OLLs. It forces you to solve a pair at a time, but I don't see how it could be easy to transition to comms, at least not as easy as M2, and I'm not sure what potential there is for move-saving tricks, etc.



newtonbase said:


> I would have done most of those in a very similar way but one thing I notice is that I only use comms/tricks with a letter pair but you will use the 2nd letter from 1 pair and the 1st from the next such a when you did UB on its own then a UF DB comm trick.


I do that a lot because I got in the habit of checking every adjacent pair for opportunities to combine BD or FU, since it makes such a massive difference to move count. I don't tend to think in pairs for edges, just individual targets plus opportunities to combine them. I know from corners that will change when I switch to 3-style. For example, I always execute my last three corner targets (with parity) as comm then Y perm. It's often occurred to me afterwards that it would have given nicer cases to do the Y perm first and finish with a comm, but I cannot mentally "unglue" those pairs any more during corners .



newtonbase said:


> A couple other differences - for RU RD you use the Bw setup where I use [U M' U': L2].
> Do you know this for LD RD - M' D' M D2 M' D' M?


I use exclusively M slice interchanges with very few exceptions. [U M' U': R2] doesn't qualify as advanced M2 . There are a couple of E slice comms I have started using in slow solves simply because they are way more efficient than anything I can set up on the M slice.

I have seen M' D' M D2 M' D' M but couldn't figure out how to finger it quickly.


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## h2f (Jun 17, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> It's just preference.



That's how I think about it.


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## newtonbase (Jun 17, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> Thanks for doing this, it was interesting and I think I understand Turbo a bit better now. From previous discussions on the forum it seems there's not much of a difference between UF and DR buffers. It's just preference. Move count is not hugely different (it might be less than vanilla M2) and the setups aren't as bad as I expected. The algs also seem quite nice, just OLLs. It forces you to solve a pair at a time, but I don't see how it could be easy to transition to comms, at least not as easy as M2, and I'm not sure what potential there is for move-saving tricks, etc.
> 
> 
> I do that a lot because I got in the habit of checking every adjacent pair for opportunities to combine BD or FU, since it makes such a massive difference to move count. I don't tend to think in pairs for edges, just individual targets plus opportunities to combine them. I know from corners that will change when I switch to 3-style. For example, I always execute my last three corner targets (with parity) as comm then Y perm. It's often occurred to me afterwards that it would have given nicer cases to do the Y perm first and finish with a comm, but I cannot mentally "unglue" those pairs any more during corners .
> ...


I'm using some E and S slices in practice solves too. There's a bit too much thinking required for them at the moment. 

I don't worry too much about fingertricks when I can halve the move count


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## pglewis (Jun 17, 2017)

NewbieCuber said:


> But one of the things Youtuber "Spotty" suggested was not to try switching to CFOP until your beginner's method was consistently below 1:30. I can see why. There's a lot to learn just on handling the cube smoothly, not mistaking clockwise vs counter-clockwise algs. Getting faster at the cross, etc.



Great progress, you should be shopping around for a comp nearby soon! 

I'm another that doesn't subscribe to "don't switch from beginners' until sub X". Moving to F2L is initially going to slow you down and the faster you get with the Beginners' method the more reluctant you'll be to leave your comfort zone where you've already put effort into developing some lookahead. I also agree with @One Wheel that you're having fun so it's guaranteed you're not doing it "wrong", in any event.

As far as algs: I would get the 7 OCLL algs down first, if you haven't already, I think most people learn those first with 2-look OLL systems that orient edges as the first step. Next up would be PLL, IMO. I think they're the next "bang for your buck" alg-set to learn and except for a couple they're more frequent than any particular OLL so you'll run across them more often in actual solves. IME, recognition is the biggest challenge so it can be highly beneficial to start learning to recognize the PLLs you come across, even if you're still 2-looking and haven't learned the algs for them yet. I think recognition is more than half the battle.

General advice: if you're not comfortable with M-slice moves yet give them extra practice. Some things like H and Z perm can be executed very quickly with the M-slice algs, once you have the finger tricks down. I learned alternate versions of Z first because my M slices were awkward at the time and I wouldn't take that route if I had it to do over. Slice moves are super handy for working with edges. 

And of course always have fun. I continue to waffle around and experiment with all sorts of things I don't always follow up on (color neutral, ZZ), and sometimes silly things that don't even progress my speedsolving: solving straight to checkerboard or solving 3x3 corners with a 2x2 method and the edges with U-Perms because... why not?


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## mafergut (Jun 18, 2017)

@pglewis: those RU algs for H, Z and U perm will be handy anyway for OH and big cubes so it was not wasted time to learn them.


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## moralsh (Jun 18, 2017)

h2f said:


> That's how I think about it.



I'd also say it's mostly preference, and as far as getting a good single goes it's clear the buffer is not that important. However some experienced BLDers argue that having a buffer in the U layer helps setting up to an OLL or PLL parity fix. Not that any of us is at that level.. yet


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## mark49152 (Jun 18, 2017)

moralsh said:


> some experienced BLDers argue that having a buffer in the U layer helps setting up to an OLL or PLL parity fix


How does that work?


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## NewbieCuber (Jun 18, 2017)

One Wheel said:


> I don't remember when I switched, and if you're enjoying it that's certainly the main thing, but generally I'm not a fan of waiting until a certain speed or anything else to learn something new. Just go ahead and learn it, and especially with f2l, in the process of learning you will get a better feel for what the cube is doing and get faster. Just my 2 cents.



I'm finding that by waiting until I can average 1:30 or faster I'm focusing on handling the cube better, remembering the algs properly, and building my cross faster. I can see the value in waiting a bit before moving on so I can concentrate on the fundamentals.

However, I also have my "F2L" cube which is a cube with all the top layer stickers removed (except for the yellow center piece). I'm practicing the F2L moves on that cube because it simplifies the problem and helps build pattern recognition. In fact, I have a similar "cross cube" with all the stickers removed except for the centers and the white cross. It really helps me focus on a single aspect of the solve.


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## newtonbase (Jun 18, 2017)

NewbieCuber said:


> I'm finding that by waiting until I can average 1:30 or faster I'm focusing on handling the cube better, remembering the algs properly, and building my cross faster. I can see the value in waiting a bit before moving on so I can concentrate on the fundamentals.
> 
> However, I also have my "F2L" cube which is a cube with all the top layer stickers removed (except for the yellow center piece). I'm practicing the F2L moves on that cube because it simplifies the problem and helps build pattern recognition. In fact, I have a similar "cross cube" with all the stickers removed except for the centers and the white cross. It really helps me focus on a single aspect of the solve.


That's proper practice. You'll reap the benefits.


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## pglewis (Jun 18, 2017)

mafergut said:


> @pglewis: those RU algs for H, Z and U perm will be handy anyway for OH and big cubes so it was not wasted time to learn them.



lol, at this point I'd have to relearn those... luckily OH comes just slightly before feet as far as me getting involved . Bigger cubes maybe, but I actually still just use my normal 3x3 algs for both 4x4 and 5x5.


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## muchacho (Jun 18, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> I will post solutions that I would use in a real solve, so maybe a few tricks, but fundamentally M2. Same should go for Turbo. It's not so interesting to see "vanilla" solutions, but also not interesting to see unrealistic tricks that turn it into a different method. I'm interested to learn more about how Turbo would be used for real by an experienced Turbo user, too. Maybe others will post better M2 solutions too.
> 
> Here we go. Scramble in solving orientation.
> 
> ...



D2 L2 U2 B F2 U2 F' U2 R2 D2 F2 U R' B D' F' D B2 R2 F2

Not an experienced Turbo user, but here I go (after like 5 tries):
L R U M' U2 M U R' L'
R2 L2 M U' M U2 M' U' M' L2 R2
U' U M' U2 M U U
B R' M U M U2 M' U M' R B'
L' U' M' U2 M U' M U M U2 M' U M' L
B F2 U2 M U M U M U2 M' U M' U M' F2 B'

68 STM // looks like a lucky solve for Turbo (DF buffer)

I'll try to do the other two.


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## mark49152 (Jun 18, 2017)

muchacho said:


> Not an experienced Turbo user, but here I go (after like 5 tries):


Interesting to see Turbo done with a DF buffer.


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## pipkiksass (Jun 18, 2017)

SO glad I never got sucked in to BLD! I barely have time for 3x3 and 4x4...

Anyway, did about a dozen 3x3 solves this morning, averaged 16.8 and had a sub-16 Ao5, which was nice. Also included PB NL single (11.180)... does it count as non-lucky if there's a fairly straightforward x-cross?

Apologies if my reconstruction is wrong, I NEVER use cube rotation notation, so I'm never sure how to use it, and I can't get Alg.garron.us to work for me (I'm on a mac, bleugh).

Give the scramble a go, it's loverly! And I missed an even easier 2nd pair - there may well have been easier F2Ls.

D2 R2 D B2 F2 U B2 U’ L2 F2 D’ F U’ L2 D2 L’ F’ U’ L D’

Inspection (X2 Y)

D’U R’ F D2 F (x-cross)
R’ U2 R d’ R U R’ (2nd pair)
Y L’ U’ L U2 R U’ R’ (3rd pair) 
U L’ U L (4th pair)
f R U R’ U’ R U R’ U’ (OLL
U M2 U M U2 M’ U M2 (PLL)
U’ (AUF)

50 STM
11.180
4.472 TPS


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## mark49152 (Jun 18, 2017)

pipkiksass said:


> SO glad I never got sucked in to BLD! I barely have time for 3x3 and 4x4...


Dude you're missing out .


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## newtonbase (Jun 19, 2017)

pipkiksass said:


> SO glad I never got sucked in to BLD! I barely have time for 3x3 and 4x4...


The obvious answer is to stop doing those trivial events.


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## pglewis (Jun 19, 2017)

Well, hi there.


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## h2f (Jun 19, 2017)

moralsh said:


> I'd also say it's mostly preference, and as far as getting a good single goes it's clear the buffer is not that important. However some experienced BLDers argue that having a buffer in the U layer helps setting up to an OLL or PLL parity fix. Not that any of us is at that level.. yet





mark49152 said:


> How does that work?



With two corners swap, doing corners first, you just do OLL or PLL shoting last two edges and correcting corners. However with DF buffer and corners first I can mostly finish parity with Ja or Jb perm or modified version of Ja with wide moves.


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## h2f (Jun 19, 2017)

pipkiksass said:


> Give the scramble a go, it's loverly! And I missed an even easier 2nd pair - there may well have been easier F2Ls.
> 
> D2 R2 D B2 F2 U B2 U’ L2 F2 D’ F U’ L2 D2 L’ F’ U’ L D’
> 
> ...



You are almost correct. Rotations should be lowercase. I've found that instead of d' theres d in a second pair. But I cant figure out how you did 3rd pair.


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## mark49152 (Jun 19, 2017)

h2f said:


> With two corners swap, doing corners first, you just do OLL or PLL shoting last two edges and correcting corners. However with DF buffer and corners first I can mostly finish parity with Ja or Jb perm or modified version of Ja with wide moves.


But it only works if the last edge target is in the U layer? If you have to set it up to the U layer there's no advantage over setting up DF to the U layer.


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## NewbieCuber (Jun 19, 2017)

Oh My Gosh! A new Personal Best yesterday with the Beginner Method.

54.66

I got really lucky. When I solved the top cross the edges were already oriented and then when I rotated the corners they ended up in the proper location without having to do a permutation.

So I'm starting to work on my F2L more and more. That way I'll replace the 2 steps of "solve the first layer corners then solve the 2nd layer edges" with a single process. I've also started learning top layer permutation algs so I can orient the entire last layer before doing any permutations rather than the beginners method of "Orient the top cross, permute the top cross, orient the corners, permute the corners."


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## h2f (Jun 19, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> But it only works if the last edge target is in the U layer? If you have to set it up to the U layer there's no advantage over setting up DF to the U layer.



I agree with that.


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## pglewis (Jun 19, 2017)

pipkiksass said:


> SO glad I never got sucked in to BLD! I barely have time for 3x3 and 4x4...



You sure about that? It's an incredibly small sample size but every time I practice blind for a couple weeks my sighted solves get faster 



NewbieCuber said:


> I got really lucky. When I solved the top cross the edges were already oriented and then when I rotated the corners they ended up in the proper location without having to do a permutation.



You're well on your way, probably took me months to get to a 1:20 average. In case you're not familiar with one of the important mantras yet: "luck is not a crime". It's not uncommon to see the occasional outlier single around .6x your general average, nearly twice as fast as normal. 

If you stick with CFOP then F2L practice is definitely both your best short and long game. My biggest gains are still from improving F2L and the one thing my best singles always have in common is fewer F2L pauses than normal. Cross and fingertricks will continue improve on their own as a byproduct of your practice. That's not to say cross practice isn't important but if you time the stages of your solve you'll quickly see that the first two layers (whether beginners' or F2L) is where the lion's share of the time goes.


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## chtiger (Jun 19, 2017)

chtiger said:


> With the official WR 7x7 mean now faster than my best unofficial 4x4 single, it's time to practice 4x4 again. What's the best method for someone who is terrible at finding and pairing up the edges? My current PB was set using r2 for edges. There should be a faster method than that. Any simple tips and tricks that I probably don't know?


Nobody? I'll take that as confirmation that 4x4 sucks and I shouldn't practice it. Movin' on.


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## pglewis (Jun 19, 2017)

chtiger said:


> Nobody? I'll take that as confirmation that 4x4 sucks and I shouldn't practice it. Movin' on.



You can see from my sig that I'm the last person to be giving any 4x4 tips . Are you using straight reduction? Hoya? Yau? I personally like Yau because I don't have to go looking for edges on the bottom, but Hoya's edge pairing is interesting in its own right from what little I played with it.

[Edit: actually, iirc, you don't have to go looking on the bottom during edge pairing in Hoya either. Most of the difference is solving the centers, though Hoya has a specific way to pair the cross edges where Yau is more free form there]


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## chtiger (Jun 19, 2017)

pglewis said:


> You can see from my sig that I'm the last person to be giving any 4x4 tips . Are you using straight reduction? Hoya? Yau? I personally like Yau because I don't have to go looking for edges on the bottom, but Hoya's edge pairing is interesting in its own right from what little I played with it.


That's still faster than me. I was using straight reduction (I guess that's what it's called), but was so bad with it I tried r2 on the edges just for fun and got a PB after a little practice. I can never keep Yau and Hoya (I'm always wanting to call it Moyu) straight. I've tried one of them briefly, but don't remember which.


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## pglewis (Jun 19, 2017)

There's a name for how I do edges but I always forget it. I have the cross solved when I go into edge pairing and I align 3, slice, align 3 the other way, slice back, and if no complications arise I'm either done or just have the final 2 pairs to fix up. Its reportedly a good method for lucky singles but some edge situations can make it fall on its face here and there.


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## mark49152 (Jun 20, 2017)

chtiger said:


> Nobody? I'll take that as confirmation that 4x4 sucks and I shouldn't practice it. Movin' on.


I use Hoya so will recommend Hoya.



pglewis said:


> There's a name for how I do edges but I always forget it. I have the cross solved when I go into edge pairing and I align 3, slice, align 3 the other way, slice back, and if no complications arise I'm either done or just have the final 2 pairs to fix up. Its reportedly a good method for lucky singles but some edge situations can make it fall on its face here and there.


That is 6-2. I use 3-2-3 so will recommend 3-2-3. You don't get the same nasty cases as with 6-2.


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## One Wheel (Jun 20, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> I use Hoya so will recommend Hoya.
> 
> 
> That is 6-2. I use 3-2-3 so will recommend 3-2-3. You don't get the same nasty cases as with 6-2.



Color neutral Yau with 3-2-3 edge pairing is definitively optimal. After only a year and a half of practice I average under 2:00. ;-)

In other news I finally ordered magnets for my Yuxin Blue M and a strictly experimental partially magnetized Yufu. Also I've never been able to wrap my head around M2, but after a few minutes messing around with it today I wouldn't be surprised if I could attempt an actual blind solve in the next couple of weeks. Once I can do a blind solve in under 5 or 6 minutes I'm sure I'll practice more.


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## newtonbase (Jun 20, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> at your level is less about speed and more about being brave


I was thinking about this today. I'd reviewed an audio memo just in my head 4 or 5 times before starting execution which is a completed waste of time. Blind is almost always about quick singles. I'll stick to 1 review at most.
I also got a DNF as I forgot to execute corners so feel free to disregard everything I say.


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## xyzzy (Jun 20, 2017)

chtiger said:


> That's still faster than me. I was using straight reduction (I guess that's what it's called), but was so bad with it I tried r2 on the edges just for fun and got a PB after a little practice. I can never keep Yau and Hoya (I'm always wanting to call it Moyu) straight. I've tried one of them briefly, but don't remember which.



r2 as in the 4bld method? (Sort of tangentially related, but it looks like Gianfranco also solves 4×4×4 with 3-cycles on the wings, rather than using a conventional sighted method.)


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## h2f (Jun 20, 2017)

I must announce that last Sunday I've became member of the board of Polish Speedcubing Association. I think the new stage in my speedcuber life has just begun.


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## newtonbase (Jun 20, 2017)

xyzzy said:


> r2 as in the 4bld method? (Sort of tangentially related, but it looks like Gianfranco also solves 4×4×4 with 3-cycles on the wings, rather than using a conventional sighted method.)


That's not surprising. He solves 3x3 blind as he doesn't practice a regular method so I can't imagine he'd practice 4x4 either.


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## newtonbase (Jun 20, 2017)

h2f said:


> I must announce that last Sunday I've became member of the board of Polish Speedcubing Association. I think the new stage in my speedcuber life has just begun.


Congratulations!


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## Logiqx (Jun 20, 2017)

Hey guys. Has anything interesting happened in the past few weeks?

Big milestone for me this morning... sub-15 Ao12!

Title: 3x3x3 Cube
Scrambler: 3x3x3 Simple
# of solving: 28
Std Dev: 1.711
Best of all: 13.291
Worst of all: 19.994
Average of all: 16.196
*Best Avg of 5: 14.014
Best Avg of 12: 14.872*
Best Avg of 25: 16.114
---- Generated by KingEn Timer v3.3

Solving times: 17.942 16.829 15.024 15.620 13.291 16.724 15.219 14.215 14.039 15.424 13.790 13.511 18.437 15.157 16.634 17.006 18.284 17.847 18.819 19.650 14.746 14.803 14.885 17.806 18.230 19.994 14.773 15.693


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## newtonbase (Jun 20, 2017)

3BLD Mo3 PB 1:52.40 
First 3 solves of the day on my break.


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## JohnnyReggae (Jun 20, 2017)

Eventually a sub 1 minute 4x4 single  It's taken quite a while and I've come close a few times in the last 2 weeks, and I was just thinking it was a matter of time before it arrived .... 10 minutes later ... bam !!

59.79 B' L' Fw' B' L2 D U2 F U' Rw' Fw Uw2 Rw U Uw2 L2 Uw2 Fw L2 Fw' F Rw' Uw L2 Fw B' F' U2 Fw2 Uw2 R' D Fw' Uw B D Fw' Rw2 R' L 

Also broke my mo3 and ao5 for 4x4 ... 1:06.43 and 1:09.83 respectively.

Loving my DIY Yuxin Blue M with Thunderclap springs. I think it's better than the WuQue M. Still haven't had a pop with the Blue, while I've had many with the WuQue.


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## mark49152 (Jun 20, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> I was thinking about this today. I'd reviewed an audio memo just in my head 4 or 5 times before starting execution which is a completed waste of time. Blind is almost always about quick singles. I'll stick to 1 review at most.


I'll try to explain better what I meant by that. I think you got it anyway, but I feel like writing about it because it's my favourite topic .

Working on speed, to me, means pushing tasks beyond the rate at which they currently feel comfortable. For memo, that might mean scanning the cube faster, not letting your eyes dwell as long as they want to on each sticker, not allowing yourself to pause after each pair to let the image sink in better, etc. It takes conscious effort to force yourself to make these kinds of changes. I think it's what some people call rushing memo.

For beginner BLDers, say 3+ minutes, if they are anything like I was, memo is done at a comfortable pace and then checked and reviewed and recited until absolutely sure it has stuck, and only then will they start execution. The quickest wins at this level are not about rushing, as described above, it's about eliminating some of these safety checks, and being a bit braver by trusting yourself that you don't need another review.

It depends on the method, execution and person of course, but for me I think the point at which I struggled to improve further without focusing on rushing memo and becoming better at that was around 1:30 with memo about 40-50 seconds. It's not a clean break of course - I've always done some speed work, and I still have to push myself to do fewer reviews. But I think rushing memo is what got me past 1:30.

Of course for some of the younger, faster BLDers they seem to easily get sub-1 before they even have to think about how to improve, and what feels like rushing to me would be sluggish to them .


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## chtiger (Jun 20, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> I use Hoya so will recommend Hoya.


I was thinking Yau was the popular one. I did say I was always confusing the two. That's why I asked. I'll give Hoya a shot next time I get motivated (unless more people recommend something else).



xyzzy said:


> r2 as in the 4bld method? (Sort of tangentially related, but it looks like Gianfranco also solves 4×4×4 with 3-cycles on the wings, rather than using a conventional sighted method.)


Interesting to see someone using a blind method in comp and getting sub-1:00 (and sub-15 avg in 3x3). I just did it as an experiment, didn't see it as a viable method. Maybe I'll practice it a while and see if I can get sub-2 at least. Based on my 3x3 avg, I think I should avg around 1:50 on 4x4.



JohnnyReggae said:


> Eventually a sub 1 minute 4x4 single  It's taken quite a while and I've come close a few times in the last 2 weeks, and I was just thinking it was a matter of time before it arrived .... 10 minutes later ... bam !!
> 
> 59.79 B' L' Fw' B' L2 D U2 F U' Rw' Fw Uw2 Rw U Uw2 L2 Uw2 Fw L2 Fw' F Rw' Uw L2 Fw B' F' U2 Fw2 Uw2 R' D Fw' Uw B D Fw' Rw2 R' L


What method do you use?


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## Jason Green (Jun 21, 2017)

chtiger said:


> Nobody? I'll take that as confirmation that 4x4 sucks and I shouldn't practice it. Movin' on.


I definitely like Hoya with 3-2-3 edge pairing! I'm down to about 1:20 average now, still need my first sub 1 single. I did finally break 3 mins on 5x5 with a 2:52, and averaging about 3:30 so it's getting there.


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## One Wheel (Jun 21, 2017)

Jason Green said:


> I definitely like Hoya with 3-2-3 edge pairing! I'm down to about 1:20 average now, still need my first sub 1 single. I did finally break 3 mins on 5x5 with a 2:52, and averaging about 3:30 so it's getting there.



That's interesting. I'm a touch faster than you on 5x5 (singles as low as 2:45, average about 3:20), but just today I think I did my second sub-1:25 4x4 single at 1:20.xx, as part of a 1:40.xx Ao5. What's interesting is that I would consider myself better at 4x4 than at 5x5.


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## JohnnyReggae (Jun 21, 2017)

chtiger said:


> I was thinking Yau was the popular one. I did say I was always confusing the two. That's why I asked. I'll give Hoya a shot next time I get motivated (unless more people recommend something else).
> 
> What method do you use?


I use Yau for 4x4 and standard Reduction for anything bigger. I've tried Hoya for 4x4 and while I managed a single close to what I was doing with Yau at the time, I still prefer Yau. It flows a little better for me than Hoya and I find it a little less restrictive than Hoya. I could spend more time with Hoya, but in reality I probably won't for now.


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## newtonbase (Jun 21, 2017)

I've never been any quicker with Hoya than Yau but I enjoy it a lot more.


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## newtonbase (Jun 21, 2017)

After my only 3 3BLD attempts getting me a PB Mo3 yesterday I got 5 DNFs from 5 today. I wish I knew how to achieve some sort of consistency.


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## JohnnyReggae (Jun 21, 2017)

JohnnyReggae said:


> Eventually a sub 1 minute 4x4 single  It's taken quite a while and I've come close a few times in the last 2 weeks, and I was just thinking it was a matter of time before it arrived .... 10 minutes later ... bam !!
> 
> 59.79 B' L' Fw' B' L2 D U2 F U' Rw' Fw Uw2 Rw U Uw2 L2 Uw2 Fw L2 Fw' F Rw' Uw L2 Fw B' F' U2 Fw2 Uw2 R' D Fw' Uw B D Fw' Rw2 R' L
> 
> ...


In this afternoon's 4x4 session I managed to break my PB and get 2 more sub 1 minutes ... with 1 solve separating them.

59.63 U2 L Uw B' L' R Uw L B2 R2 B Rw2 R U' L2 Rw2 F D2 Uw' R U L2 D' F2 B' R F' R' B' L Fw L Fw' B' R Uw F2 R2 F' D2 

59.78 U Fw F2 L D R2 F R B' R Fw2 D2 Uw2 B F' Uw' Rw' Uw' F2 Uw2 U2 R' B R2 D' F B2 D L' D U Uw' L R Fw L2 B' L U L 

Also have now broken all my 4x4 PB's 

mo3 = 1:02.99
ao5 = 1:05.78
ao12 = 1:08.11
ao100 = 1:13.74

Quite chuffed that the practice is eventually paying off


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## pglewis (Jun 21, 2017)

chtiger said:


> I'll give Hoya a shot next time I get motivated (unless more people recommend something else).



As you can see from the feedback already both Hoya and Yau have great potential. It's just a matter of which one speaks to you more. Yau is great if you can get used to the move restrictions and embrace solving half-centers. Hoya gives more freedom during centers. I tried both initially but Yau is what I would have come up with, left to my own devices. I'm sure I could switch to Hoya and match my Yau times within a week or so.


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## pglewis (Jun 21, 2017)

It's been a great week for me. Got another blind success at the cafe today, which is definitely more challenging than the solitude of my desk at home. Got 1/2 on a two cube attempt a few days ago, messed up setups somewhere on the first but got the second. Meanwhile, every regular 3x3 PB has been busted this past week including my first sub 20 single. Best Ao5 is in the mid 20s now and I'm overdue for a 17-18 single to show up.


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## dboeren (Jun 21, 2017)

I'm pretty close to done re-learning 4x4 using reduction after a long absence. I just need to finish memorizing the three parity algorithms, and last night I learned how to pair dedges two at a time so I'm pretty happy with that.

Once I've got to 100% I do want to check out Hoya, Yau, and Meyer to see how those work.

I'm currently using an Aosu from a couple years ago, is there any substantially better 4x4 out now? Do magnets help the feel on 4x4 as much as with 3x3's?

Other than that, I want to spend some time working on my Roux blocks as I'm currently very slow on these. So the plan is to drill inspection and work with a block trainer to see if I can improve this. Probably will be a while before I get to work on it much as we've got guests in town for another week and a half.


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## JohnnyReggae (Jun 22, 2017)

dboeren said:


> I'm currently using an Aosu from a couple years ago, is there any substantially better 4x4 out now? Do magnets help the feel on 4x4 as much as with 3x3's?


At the moment I would recommend either the Yuxin Blue (with Thunderclap springs) or the QiYi WuQue. Both with magnets are amazing. The magnets make a huge difference to a 4x4, for sure 

I stopped using my mini Aosu a while back as it pops way to much. The newer 4x4's are much better IMO.


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## muchacho (Jun 22, 2017)

18.307 Mo100 PB (was 18.540 from 3 weeks ago), but it's a fluke, I'm slower than usual for many days already, I hope it's only that the heat wave is affecting me.


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## newtonbase (Jun 22, 2017)

1:23.85 3BLD single PB by 3s. Made 2 major execution errors which I reversed plus missed an advanced M2 move because I knew it was good and rushed it.
I also got a 1:17 yesterday but was someone else's scramble that I knew would be easy so it only counts for bragging.

EDIT: Next solve I misremembered 2nd to last edge as B not V which cost me a 1:36.08 Mo3, which would have been a PB by over 16s!


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## dboeren (Jun 22, 2017)

JohnnyReggae said:


> At the moment I would recommend either the Yuxin Blue (with Thunderclap springs) or the QiYi WuQue. Both with magnets are amazing. The magnets make a huge difference to a 4x4, for sure



Thanks, I'll check those two out. It's amusing to me that every bigger Yuxin cube seems to come with the wrong springs from the factory


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## NewbieCuber (Jun 22, 2017)

Sorry for the wall of text, but I really want to share this learning technique.

I'm noticing that I'm still losing a lot of time making my bottom cross. It's slowly getting better but I really need to focus on getting the cross done in around 5 seconds or less.

So I have a "Cross Cube" with all the stickers removed except for the centers and the white cross. I find that it's a really good learning tool which helps me focus on just this one aspect of solving. This brings me to my favorite learning technique which I would like to share with all of you. I've had a long fascination with the act of learning. As a music teacher I'm amazed that even at high end schools like the Berkley school of music or the San Francisco conservatory of music they teach composition, harmony and such. But they don't teach how to learn efficiently. 

In any case, one of the techniques is I.P.G.E.C. or Identify Problem, Gradually Expand Context.

Identify Problem : My cross formation is slow.
Gradually expand context : Start with the simplest version of the problem task and slowly, gradually, expand the context of the problem until you're solving the problem or performing the task which was the original problem. In this case, I use a cube with only the center stickers and cross edge stickers. This removes all other distractions and allows you to focus on just this problem. This is the simplest version of the task which was the original goal.

Learn to perform this simplified task with no stress or tension in your muscles. Don't move on until this simplified task is easy and trivial.

Gradually Expand Context (part 2) : I also have an F2L cube which, as you may imagine, has the stickers from the top layer removed (except for the yellow center). Start solving the white cross with the F2L cube. This gives you more stickers in which to find your patterns. It adds a bit more difficulty to the pattern recognition aspect. Don't move on until this version of the task is easy and trivial.

Gradually Expand Context (Part 3) : Use a fully stickered cube. Now I'm solving the original problem, but I've gradually built my skill set up to this point instead of trying to perform the difficult original task immediately. 

My next step would be to go back to the cross cube and learn to solve the cross without rotating the cube. Then gradually work up to the fully stickered cube. After that I will work on looking at the simplified cross cube without moving anything and visualizing the set of moves to create the cross. I should, with much practice, be able to say out loud what the 8 or fewer moves are to create the cross and then make those moves with my eyes closed. Gradually do the same thing with the F2L cube and then the fully stickered cube.

It sounds like a lot of work but I find that in the long run you actually can learn very complex tasks in a much shorter time by Identifying the problem, reduce it to the simplest version of the problem, then gradually expand the context until you are solving the original problem.


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## NewbieCuber (Jun 22, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> Working on speed, to me, means pushing tasks beyond the rate at which they currently feel comfortable.



I keep relating speedcubing back to playing and teaching music. In music one of the learning mistakes I see my students make is that they use a metronome (which is a good thing) and keep pushing themselves to play faster and faster. They are always working at the speed where it's almost, but not quite, a train wreck. The problem is, the student is teaching themselves how to play with maximum tension and stress where they're almost ready to fail.

I feel that this is wrong. To play fast, you practice slowly. Instead of pushing yourself to play (or speedsolve) at a speed where it's almost failing, find the fastest speed you can play, or speedsolve, with zero tension or stress. Then gradually work that zero tension task to faster and faster speeds. Now you're teaching yourself to do the task without any stress or anxiety instead of teaching yourself to do the task with maximum anxiety. Certainly you can still practice speedsolving fast and work on your personal best times. But I think you'll find that there's a lot of benefit in learning what your zero stress speed is and pushing that speed up. As that zero stress speed increases your PB speed will automatically increase as well because you're teaching yourself to solve without anxiety, without stress, without tension.


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## One Wheel (Jun 22, 2017)

NewbieCuber said:


> I keep relating speedcubing back to playing and teaching music. In music one of the learning mistakes I see my students make is that they use a metronome (which is a good thing) and keep pushing themselves to play faster and faster. They are always working at the speed where it's almost, but not quite, a train wreck. The problem is, the student is teaching themselves how to play with maximum tension and stress where they're almost ready to fail.
> 
> I feel that this is wrong. To play fast, you practice slowly. Instead of pushing yourself to play (or speedsolve) at a speed where it's almost failing, find the fastest speed you can play, or speedsolve, with zero tension or stress. Then gradually work that zero tension task to faster and faster speeds. Now you're teaching yourself to do the task without any stress or anxiety instead of teaching yourself to do the task with maximum anxiety. Certainly you can still practice speedsolving fast and work on your personal best times. But I think you'll find that there's a lot of benefit in learning what your zero stress speed is and pushing that speed up. As that zero stress speed increases your PB speed will automatically increase as well because you're teaching yourself to solve without anxiety, without stress, without tension.



As a violinist myself, I know you are entirely correct with regard to music. I'm not entirely sure about cubing though. I think there may be enough difference that it is sometimes worthwhile to push speed beyond your comfort level. Particularly when performing algorithms, where you know exactly what moves you need to make and all that matters is how fast you do them.


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## pglewis (Jun 22, 2017)

NewbieCuber said:


> I feel that this is wrong. To play fast, you practice slowly. Instead of pushing yourself to play (or speedsolve) at a speed where it's almost failing, find the fastest speed you can play, or speedsolve, with zero tension or stress.



It depends upon the context. With blind memo (what Mark was talking about) it is common to reach a comfort plateau where a lot of people get stuck after early improvement. Based on experience and success, the best people out there will all tell you that you need to push memo outside your comfort zone to progress faster when this happens. That does mean a higher failure rate initially, but 3-bld is all about the fastest single in competition so a 1/3 fast success is a better result than a slow mean of 3. It also depends on what stage you're at; it won't help me to push memo if I'm still making a lot of execution mistakes for example. So keep in mind the advice was specifically aimed at someone already adept at blind solving looking to get beyond a memo speed plateau. 

In contrast, I think cross improvement and F2L often benefit from unlimited inspection time and slow, untimed solves. You can reach a comfort zone for cross that you're able to execute in 15 seconds without taking it much further, whereas unlimited inspection allows you to consider more efficient solutions. 

csTimer has a "Solve Cross" function under "Tools" that will give you optimal cross solutions for each face. This can be very handy to pick up tricks you may not have considered. 

There is a cool "cross trainer" here: http://net13.net/Cube/Cross/ Some of the images are broken for me but I just use the text scramble at the bottom of the page. It will give you scrambles that require from 1-8 moves to solve the cross optimally, and you can use "Input" in csTimer to copy the scramble and then see the optimal solution if you're unable to find it on your own. I think this _is_ one of those areas where it's best not to push yourself... practice level 3 until you can just automatically do every one you come across before moving to level 4. If you find yourself struggling at a level, move back down one temporarily. The concepts build on what you learned from the previous level. 

Finally, keep in mind that "move optimal" does not always equal "fastest", due to ergonomics. It's invaluable to be able to determine optimal solutions but sometimes there are faster ways with a couple more moves.


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## NewbieCuber (Jun 22, 2017)

pglewis said:


> It depends upon the context.



Oh I 'm sure that's very true. I was just tryhing to show that slow, low stress practice can yield great results



pglewis said:


> In contrast, I think cross improvement and F2L often benefit from unlimited inspection time and slow, untimed solves. You can reach a comfort zone for cross that you're able to execute in 15 seconds without taking it much further, whereas unlimited inspection allows you to consider more efficient solutions.



I would absolutely agree with that



pglewis said:


> csTimer has a "Solve Cross" function under "Tools" that will give you optimal cross solutions for each face. This can be very handy to pick up tricks you may not have considered.



I had no idea! Thank you for that


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## NewbieCuber (Jun 22, 2017)

One Wheel said:


> As a violinist myself, I know you are entirely correct with regard to music. I'm not entirely sure about cubing though. I think there may be enough difference that it is sometimes worthwhile to push speed beyond your comfort level. Particularly when performing algorithms, where you know exactly what moves you need to make and all that matters is how fast you do them.



Interesting. I associate the muscle memory of algorithms to the muscle memory of playing a complicated musical line. I practice slowly with no tension and then when I need to play it at performance speed my hands remember how to play without tension, they just go faster. Yes, at some point we do need to practice at speed, but I think there is a lot to be learned from low stress practice.

Isn't it interesting how we take aspects of other activities in our lives and apply them to new things like cubing? That may be an advantage for us "older" cubers. We have a larger set of experiences to draw from.


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## pglewis (Jun 22, 2017)

NewbieCuber said:


> Interesting. I associate the muscle memory of algorithms to the muscle memory of playing a complicated musical line.



Yep, and it shares the similarity that it becomes difficult to do slowly or break it down once it's embedded in muscle memory. I've found a lot of parallels to playing an instrument, F2L is akin to improvisation and last layer is scales. 

I'm a programmer by trade, so I also think in terms of breaking down complex problems into simpler ones until you've solved them and speedcubing is an amazing area in that regard. The blind systems out there are impressively efficient to me, and that's coming from an analytical background. The power of knowledge-sharing is nothing short of astounding. 20 seconds was World-class in the early 80s. In the Internet age, with widespread information sharing, 20 seconds is pedestrian. Sure, the hardware plays a part in that but the systems have evolved at a pace that demonstrates how much better we can make things when we share information and build upon work that has been done instead of reinventing the wheel. The learning process itself is fascinating enough, and it's interesting to witness how much reaction time matters watching the young 'uns at comp. But I think the rate of progress of the sport as a whole over the past decade and a half is perhaps the most fascinating thing of all.


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## mafergut (Jun 22, 2017)

I just skimmed through the last several pages of the thread. Lots of PBs and interesting discussion about methods for 3x3 and 4x4. Answering to @chtiger I also would recommend Yau method for 4x4 with 3-2-3 pairing but I wouldn't say color neutral is a good idea unless you are already absolutely color neutral on 3x3. In my case, I just start with either yellow or white center and then I always do the cross on white for 4x4. Other cross colors require too much thinking for me, much more so than in 3x3.

In other news  two days ago I beat my 3x3 PB single with an 11.03. It was an incredibly lucky scramble and it should have been sub 10 had I been focused and in good shape. I repeated it and got an 8.54 on the second try. This is the scramble:

1. 11.03 L2 B' U2 F' L2 U2 L2 B' D2 L2 B' R' F2 U' B' R' F L2 U2 L R

Super-easy, 5-move white cross, nice 1st pair, and then all the other pairs are magically done, ready to be inserted. Nice OLL and PLL skip. Probably some of you can get sub 7 when trying it, I'm sure. It's ironic that I beat my 1 year old PB single when I have mostly abandoned the hobby


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## mark49152 (Jun 22, 2017)

@NewbieCuber: @pglewis pretty much perfectly summed it up, thanks Phil. My comments pertained specifically to BLD memo. I am not an experienced musician, but I wouldn't think BLD memo to be comparable to playing music. Instead I would probably compare it to some types of physical or sports training where the training objective is precisely to stress the body, such that it recovers capable of performing at that higher level without the same stress felt during initial training.

The usual advice for sighted speedsolving is different, as you know - slow down and look ahead. Even so, there are speed training methods like time attacks which I believe can be beneficial for building TPS by stressing the fingers into learning to move faster. (Maybe in music that could be compared to scales or arpeggios?)

I agree with your other posting on learning techniques though. I also used partially stickered cubes when learning cross and F2L, and that approach of identifying weaknesses and breaking down practice to address them is exactly what I also apply to BLD memo speed training.


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## One Wheel (Jun 23, 2017)

NewbieCuber said:


> Interesting. I associate the muscle memory of algorithms to the muscle memory of playing a complicated musical line. I practice slowly with no tension and then when I need to play it at performance speed my hands remember how to play without tension, they just go faster. Yes, at some point we do need to practice at speed, but I think there is a lot to be learned from low stress practice.



I agree there is a lot to be learned from low stress practice. It may just be my training, but whenever I tried to play too fast my teacher would tell me that it was more important to keep a steady beat, and doing so would fool the audience into thinking that I was playing both more quickly and more effortlessly than I actually was. I think she was right about the violin, but it's significantly harder to fool a stackmat. A steady beat is important for f2l. LL is just Flight of the Bumblebee once you learn the algs.


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## chtiger (Jun 23, 2017)

A good mixture of recommendations for Hoya and Yau. I may have to flip a coin on what to try first. I did 10-15 solves yesterday using r2 for edges (hey, it's good practice for 4BLD edges, so it's not a total waste) and beat my previous PB 3 times. Down to 2:13 now. Progress at least.


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## muchacho (Jun 23, 2017)

@mafergut clearly cubing gods don't want you to quit


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## JohnnyReggae (Jun 23, 2017)

dboeren said:


> Thanks, I'll check those two out. It's amusing to me that every bigger Yuxin cube seems to come with the wrong springs from the factory


Now that you mention it, hadn't really thought about it, but you're absolutely right.  It's weird that Yuxin don't actually change their springs on their puzzles to what people are actually using.



NewbieCuber said:


> So I have a "Cross Cube" with all the stickers removed except for the centers and the white cross ...
> 
> I also have an F2L cube which, as you may imagine, has the stickers from the top layer removed (except for the yellow center).
> ...
> ...


I think that is a brilliant idea. I did the same a while back with an F2L cube. I found that it did help me and I would do 50 solves in a row just focusing on F2L.

I also made 2 blind cubes, 1 with the corner stickers removed and the other with the edge stickers removed so that I could focus on each separately.

I like your advice at the end. Will definitely be keeping that in mind moving forward


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## Selkie (Jun 23, 2017)

Talking of practice, I post a link to this guide by Rowan Kinneavy (@Escher) every 6 months or so and there are some new active thread recipients here now.

An awesome guide and discussion on practice from a cubing standpoint and a lot of advise I have tried to adopt over the years since he wrote the article 6 years ago.

Might prove useful to some:-

https://www.speedsolving.com/forum/threads/how-to-practice.27870/


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## h2f (Jun 23, 2017)

@Selkie Chris - thanks you've linked it.


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## Lazy Einstein (Jun 23, 2017)

So I left my little bag with cubes at a family members out of town last week and only have side events at home. I started playing with Megaminx and I am getting addicted. Any of you get drawn in by a puzzle unexpectedly?


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## Selkie (Jun 23, 2017)

Well yesterday I received my two new Cubicle Labs Cubes:-

Cubicle WeiLong GTS2 M Stickerless
Cubicle WuQue M

Loving both cubes, instant mains and just got a 4x4 PB Average:-

Average of 5: 54.93
1. 54.64 F' B r2 R' F f U D B L' U' B' u' F' r' F' u U r U f u' B' R' L' r u' D B F2 R2 r f' L D B' r2 D2 L2 u
2. 54.61 R2 B r2 B2 U2 B f2 R' u2 D L2 U' R' F2 B' f' u D2 L2 R2 u2 f' L2 f' U2 L2 F2 U2 f2 R' B' R2 U' B u' D R B2 U f'
3. 55.55 B u f B' u' U L U F D B' L2 D' F U R2 f2 R f2 L' r' U L R2 F U u2 f2 R2 D' U2 R2 L' B' u r2 u' L2 F u2
4. (1:06.70) F U D F' D' B' u' r2 f2 F' B2 r2 D U' R r2 B2 F L' U' D R2 f' F u R f' L' D' L B2 U2 B' R' D2 u2 f u2 r' R
5. (49.44) R u F u2 D2 L D u2 B R B' F' D' f2 r2 F' R D' r2 f' R B F' D u' r2 R' U' F U2 f L B' f2 R L' F' R' B2 F2


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## mafergut (Jun 23, 2017)

muchacho said:


> @mafergut clearly cubing gods don't want you to quit



I absolutely loved this post!  Thanks, David

@Lazy Einstein, it happened to me all the time, with almost any puzzle I have tried, maybe with the exception of SQ-1, not sure why.

@Selkie great 4x4 average man! Now that I have left the hobby I can't help but think that, in a year, all my cubes will be obsolete but, also, I will save a lot of money on magnetic big cubes 

Also, do you think that 3x3 WR for average will ever get below 6 seconds and, in that case, who will be the one to break that barrier? I'm putting my money on Max Park:


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## One Wheel (Jun 23, 2017)

mafergut said:


> Also, do you think that 3x3 WR for average will ever get below 6 seconds and, in that case, who will be the one to break that barrier? I'm putting my money on Max Park:



I think a better question is whether it will get below 5, and I'm guessing yes, eventually. Sub-6 wouldn't surprise me yet this year. I like going out on a limb, so I'll say semifinals of world's somebody gets sub-6.


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## mafergut (Jun 23, 2017)

One Wheel said:


> I think a better question is whether it will get below 5, and I'm guessing yes, eventually. Sub-6 wouldn't surprise me yet this year. I like going out on a limb, so I'll say semifinals of world's somebody gets sub-6.


I think single will eventually get sub-4 but I don't think we'll ever see a sub-5 average. I agree that sub-6 could happen any time soon... but it could also resist for another 3-4 years, imho.


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## Selkie (Jun 23, 2017)

mafergut said:


> @Selkie great 4x4 average man! Now that I have left the hobby I can't help but think that, in a year, all my cubes will be obsolete but, also, I will save a lot of money on magnetic big cubes



Yeah, they are expensive, especially the Cubicle labs ones. But they are oh so good  ....

This isn't a PB but the fastest AO12 I have on film. When you think the cube, Cubicle Labs WeiLong GTS2 M arrived less than 24 hours ago. Instant main!

3x3 Average of 12: 14.32 Seconds:-






Times and scrambles in the spoiler.


Spoiler



Average of 12: 14.32
1. 14.67 L2 U L2 R2 U2 F2 R2 D' R2 U' B' F L' B' L2 R' F D B' R2
2. 14.35 D2 U2 B2 R2 U2 L' B2 U2 L B2 L2 D R' B' L U2 F R D2 B2 U'
3. 17.06 U2 F2 R2 B L2 U2 L2 D2 B' R2 B' D L D2 F D2 U' R' D' L F2
4. 13.16 U' L2 F' R' B' U' D' F B2 U R2 L2 B' R2 F R2 L2 B2 U2 B' R2
5. 14.02 R' B2 U2 B2 L2 B2 L' F2 U2 B2 D2 F D' B F L R' U R2 D B'
6. 14.30 B2 D' F2 R2 U L' B' U R U B L2 B' D2 F2 R2 D2 F' D2 F'
7. (13.00) B U' R2 D' L' D R2 B R2 U2 R D2 L U2 L' B2 L U2 R'
8. 13.46 B2 D2 L' D2 F2 R2 D2 L' U2 R B2 U' F2 L2 F D2 F' R B D
9. Extra - Timer malfunction
10. 14.68 D F2 U2 R2 U L2 B2 D F2 L2 D2 B' D R2 D' R' B2 F2 R2 D' B
11. (17.85) B2 R' B2 U2 R' D2 L2 R' F2 L D L' U' L2 F L2 D' B R' U'
12. 14.24 B2 F2 L' B2 L2 B2 U2 R' F2 U2 R2 F' U F' L2 R' U R2 F' L D'
13. 13.22 B U' B R F2 L2 U2 L' B R B R2 F' L2 U2 F R2 F2 U2 D2 B


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## One Wheel (Jun 23, 2017)

mafergut said:


> I think single will eventually get sub-4 but I don't think we'll ever see a sub-5 average. I agree that sub-6 could happen any time soon... but it could also resist for another 3-4 years, imho.



I agree sub-6 could happen any time or wait a few years, and I agree that we'll probably see a sub-4 single eventually. I just find it hard to believe that a sub-4 single can stand for all that long before the average comes within 25% of it.


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## mafergut (Jun 23, 2017)

One Wheel said:


> I agree sub-6 could happen any time or wait a few years, and I agree that we'll probably see a sub-4 single eventually. I just find it hard to believe that a sub-4 single can stand for all that long before the average comes within 25% of it.


But if you think that a sub-4 single will have to be a PLL skip or otherwise lucky solve, meanwhile the current WR single is a somewhat full step solve then I don't think the average will come so close to the single (unless somebody is lucky enough to get at least 3 PLL skips in a very good average).

@Selkie: Great average and great cube. I like my Moyu Weilong GTS2M. Right now it is my main, and a regular GTS2 is my OH main. I can only guess that the Cubicle GTS2M will be even better than the Moyu one. You were lucky, the timer malfunction was a 16 sec solve  Forget about it, it is just my envy talking


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## Escher (Jun 23, 2017)

Selkie said:


> Talking of practice, I post a link to this guide by Rowan Kinneavy (@Escher) every 6 months or so and there are some new active thread recipients here now.
> 
> An awesome guide and discussion on practice from a cubing standpoint and a lot of advise I have tried to adopt over the years since he wrote the article 6 years ago.
> 
> ...



Thanks Chris! I'm always grateful for your endorsements. I can't believe it was 6 years ago now...

I'll not add to practice discussion itself, but say that I recommend introducing a bit of mindfulness to practice time. It seems to be good for other sports and I can't see how the more mental-game category that cubing is part of wouldn't see similar (or even bigger) benefits. See: http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1469029207000702

One example might be doing the 'body-scan' technique (getting horizontal, 15 minutes focusing on bodily sensations, and as little else as possible, slowly from tips of toes to top of head). Good explanation of mindfulness itself in a less 'utility-focused' manner here: http://www.vipassana.com/meditation/mindfulness_in_plain_english.php

It's probably quite possible to engineer similar effects in your own way, by taking time before practice to think of your long-term goals, notice the other things that are competing for your attention at that time, and doing what you can to lay them aside without exploring them, and getting tugged away from the present moment. Clear the workbench before starting a big project, so to speak.


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## dboeren (Jun 23, 2017)

I got my first magnetic cube GTS2M recently and it's awesome, I'm seriously tempted to try a magnetic 4x4 but they're pricy.

Yesterday I got my first 5x5 (WuShuang). Haven't gotten to far with learning it yet but it seems like the centers are going to be a bit grueling. With it came my first Square-1 which is delightful and quite different. What are some other good puzzles similar to this? I'll probably get a crazy windmill in my next order but while that changes shape, there are no different steps for solving it, it gets un-bumpy just by solving it as a normal 3x3 whereas the Square-1 has totally different algorithms for shape and the normal orientation/permutation.


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## pglewis (Jun 23, 2017)

mafergut said:


> It's ironic that I beat my 1 year old PB single when I have mostly abandoned the hobby



Apparently, as long as you drill your algs often enough that they don't get stale you'll just magically continue to get faster


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## Selkie (Jun 23, 2017)

Escher said:


> Thanks Chris! I'm always grateful for your endorsements. I can't believe it was 6 years ago now...



My pleasure mate, you have been one of the most influential cubers for me over the years. Hope you are keeping well? Shame won't see you at London open but perhaps maybe later this year


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## newtonbase (Jun 23, 2017)

dboeren said:


> Yesterday I got my first 5x5 (WuShuang). Haven't gotten to far with learning it yet but it seems like the centers are going to be a bit grueling.


Have a look here if you get stuck but I recommend you use it to get an idea how to do it intuitively rather than learn algs. Centres are the most fun bit of 5x5.


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## Escher (Jun 23, 2017)

Selkie said:


> My pleasure mate, you have been one of the most influential cubers for me over the years. Hope you are keeping well? Shame won't see you at London open but perhaps maybe later this year



That's a smile I won't wipe off for a while  Yeah I'm doing alright cheers, yourself? Studying again and doing my best to stay on-topic, never an easy task  You'll definitely see me later this year, I just need some system that notifies me of local competition reg opening as I don't much browse here any more...


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## dboeren (Jun 23, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> Have a look here if you get stuck but I recommend you use it to get an idea how to do it intuitively rather than learn algs. Centres are the most fun bit of 5x5.



OK, so it wasn't so bad after all. I was able to complete all six centers intuitively with just a couple of bumps along the way. Probably it will take a few more repetitions to feel like I have the hang of it. Maybe I was just worn out last night after wrestling with the Square-1 for a couple hours 

Anyway, edge pairing is my favorite part of 4x4 so I'm about to look at a 5x5 edge tutorial. If I can get to where I'm pretty comfortable with this then I may need to pick up a 6x6 in my next order 

Edit: OK, so the edges turn out to be very similar to 4x4 edges and I had no trouble with them until I got to the single flipped edge parity case at the end. I tried an alg I found online to fix it but must have messed it up because it broke various stuff. Re-did my edges and there was no parity this time so I completed the rest of the solve without issues. Will keep practicing...


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## One Wheel (Jun 24, 2017)

I don't generally post PBs, but I found this one interesting. I finally magnetized a Yuxin Blue today, to complete 3-6 magnetic mains (3x3 main is somewhat fluid between the Yulong M and Yuexiao). Promptly smashed my PB Ao12 with 1:40.93 -- 1:44.62, 1:41.53, (1:59.64), 1:42.86, 1:39.90, *1:35.33*, (1:29.89), 1:42.82, 1:42.47, *1:45.17*, 1:37.70, 1:36.86

The interesting part is that I'm getting significantly more consistent times with the magnets. For comparison, non-magnetic PB Ao12: 1:42.69 -- 1:36.26, *1:28.10*, *2:00.38*, (1:24.36), 1:45.99, 1:47.87, 1:45.95, 1:47.90, (2:05.15), 1:35.60, 1:42.52, 1:36.31

My magnetic PB single is still about 9 seconds off my all time best, and Ao5 still has about a 2.5 second gap. I know those times are not competitive, and hardware shouldn't make that much difference at my level, but it really does. And most importantly, it's just fun to work with a really nice cube.


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## mafergut (Jun 24, 2017)

@One Wheel hardware always makes a difference, whatever your level you will be always a bit faster with a much better cube. That's why I hate the concept of a "beginner" cube. It's more a question of how much money you want to (or can) spend that a question of a cube being best suited to someone slower / faster. And then, of course, it's the cuber who makes the real difference. That's why Feliks with a Rubiks is still faster than me with the best cube available. 

Today my practice time was just 3 7x7 solves. Two warm-up at around 11 minutes and then a new PB single (by more than a minute) at 9:31.xx. I wonder for how long I can keep beating my PB single every time I get my 7x7 out for a 3-4 solve session. For now it's like 1 minute faster or so every time, all the way down from my first ever recorded PB (20:35.xx) not more than 1 year ago. In total probably not more than 20-25 solves. It's the event that improves just because of the smaller cubes.


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## One Wheel (Jun 24, 2017)

There we go! 1:19.69 PB single, at the end of 1:31.68 PB Ao5. PB Ao12 was a few solves earlier at 1:38.53. Rolling Ao50 and Ao100 stand at 1:45.84 and 1:46.29 respectively.


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## NewbieCuber (Jun 26, 2017)

One Wheel said:


> There we go! 1:19.69 PB single, at the end of 1:31.68 PB Ao5. PB Ao12 was a few solves earlier at 1:38.53. Rolling Ao50 and Ao100 stand at 1:45.84 and 1:46.29 respectively.



These are 3x3 times? You and I are right about the same. How long have you been solving? It's been 3 weeks for me and other than a really lucky scramble which gave me a 54.66 (I solved the top cross and they were already lined up correctly, then flipped the corners and was also able to skip the permutation step as well) I'm averaging about 1:30 right now.

It's fun to see progression isn't it?


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## One Wheel (Jun 26, 2017)

NewbieCuber said:


> These are 3x3 times? You and I are right about the same. How long have you been solving? It's been 3 weeks for me and other than a really lucky scramble which gave me a 54.66 (I solved the top cross and they were already lined up correctly, then flipped the corners and was also able to skip the permutation step as well) I'm averaging about 1:30 right now.
> 
> It's fun to see progression isn't it?


Yes, it is fun to see progression, but those are actually 4x4 times. I got my first 4x4 almost 2 years ago now, and I have a long-term goal of actually getting fast enough to set an official average. When I started working on 4x4 semi-seriously I think I was running about 50 seconds on 3x3 and 3:30-3:45 on 4x4. I now average roughly 30-35 seconds on 3x3.


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## Jlvs2run (Jun 26, 2017)

Is the Qiyi rainbow a good 4x4 for the price? Please only answer if you have used this cube, or can recommend another one that's a good quality cube for the price.

The seller says this is the Qi Yuan model 4x4.


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## NewbieCuber (Jun 26, 2017)

One Wheel said:


> Yes, it is fun to see progression, but those are actually 4x4 times. I got my first 4x4 almost 2 years ago now, and I have a long-term goal of actually getting fast enough to set an official average. When I started working on 4x4 semi-seriously I think I was running about 50 seconds on 3x3 and 3:30-3:45 on 4x4. I now average roughly 30-35 seconds on 3x3.




Wow, so your 4x4 times are as fast as my 3x3!? Great job. Someday I'll hit 30-35 on a 3x3. But shaving an entire minute off my current time is a big task .


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## One Wheel (Jun 26, 2017)

Jlvs2run said:


> Is the Qiyi rainbow a reasonable 4x4 for the price? If not, what 4x4 might be good?


I think that "rainbow" in this case only means that it's stickerless. So it may or may not be a good price, but I would caution that in my experience buying twisty puzzles from ebay or amazon the chance that you get what you order is pretty much a coin toss.


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## JanW (Jun 26, 2017)

Hello oldies! Haven't posted in a while as my cubing time again has decreased significantly. I've barely touched the 3x3 the last few weeks and as a result I notice I'm already forgetting some OLL algs. Hopefully I'll have more time for cubing later in the summer.

I have been lurking the thread and last week someone mentioned something about 3-2-3 for 4x4 edges. That made me realize I've been an idiot solving them one by one, as it can be done so much faster. Inspired by this I also learned a better OLL parity alg and have been playing with the 4x4 a bit. Today I did some timed solves and cut 30+ seconds of all pbs. Single improved the most with a lucky solve to 1:19.81. Ao5 is 1:57 and Ao12 2:03. I still haven't even done 50 timed solves in my lifetime, so no bigger averages available.


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## pglewis (Jun 26, 2017)

JanW said:


> I've barely touched the 3x3 the last few weeks and as a result I notice I'm already forgetting some OLL algs.



I had the same thing happen, even had to brush-up a few PLLs to my surprise. A couple days later I was suddenly about 3 seconds faster than before the hiatus... when your lookahead is so slow that you improve by _not_ solving . 

I'm about back to my pre-hiatus OLL status now. I was up to 26 but then ditched practicing several when I came back, with a looming comp at the time. I've brushed up on those again and have added the 4 COLL H cases as well (yeah, I'm cherry picking some COLLs before I"m even half done with OLL). I'm about to enter another busy several weeks; this time I'll still carve out enough time to practice my weakest algs with the limited practice time.


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## h2f (Jun 27, 2017)

@Selkie, Chris - congratulations of becoming WCA Financial Committee member.


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## teacher77 (Jun 27, 2017)

Jason Green said:


> I'm more nervous in front of friends, because I may be the best or only person they have seen do it. At comp I'm nothing compared to most of them so the crowd doesn't bother me, just nerves from wanting to do well.



For me it's quite the opposite : I'm never that nervous in front of people who can't even solve a cube. At comp though, I'm surrounded by experts so it's intimidating.


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## teacher77 (Jun 27, 2017)

First time in the 16s : June 13th.

Number of solves in the 16s since then : 3.

My PB (single) already moved from 16.41 to 16.18. And I thought that would stay an outlier for a while !


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## h2f (Jun 27, 2017)

Me and my son during last comp. Guess whos faster? 





__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1240505239409984


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## Selkie (Jun 27, 2017)

h2f said:


> @Selkie, Chris - congratulations of becoming WCA Financial Committee member.



Thanks Grzegorz @h2f . Its an honor. Looking forward to working with the treasurer, Chris Hardwick and fellow committee member James Molloy. Great to be given the opportunity of giving something back to cubing and the WCA in particular, especially with the WCA's current evolution


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## Selkie (Jun 27, 2017)

4x4 ao100 1:00.11. So close. Couldn't recommend the WuQue M more. Not sure on the standard version but the Cubicle Labs one is awesome


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## Jason Green (Jun 28, 2017)

h2f said:


> Me and my son during last comp. Guess whos faster?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I look forward to that someday, hope my boys get into it!



Selkie said:


> 4x4 ao100 1:00.11. So close. Couldn't recommend the WuQue M more. Not sure on the standard version but the Cubicle Labs one is awesome


I just ordered mine it was on sale. Hopefully will be here in time for Nats!

Some Pre-Nats practice with the kids around. 




__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10158879005385425


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## h2f (Jun 28, 2017)

Jason Green said:


> I look forward to that someday, hope my boys get into it!



This gonna happen very soon.


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## Logiqx (Jun 28, 2017)

I was doing factory solves with one of my team. He averages around 45 seconds using F2L + 4LLL so we were aiming for sub-30.

We were getting around 30-40 seconds for most of our solves until we had this blinder of a solve! His contributions were quite fortunate and shown in blue.

Scramble = F2 D2 L’ F B’ L D B F2 D2 B’ D2 F’ D L2 U2 B’ R2 L U B’ D R2 D2 B’
Time = 19.874

y’ // Inspection
u’ F’ R’ F2 u’ L2 // Yellow cross (6/42)
U’ L’ U L // F2L-1 (10/42)
y’ U L’ U L y’ R U2 R’ // F2L-2 (17/42)
y’ L’ U L // F2L-3 (20/42)
U2 R U’ R’ U R U R’ // F2L-4 (28/42)
F U R U’ R’ F’ // OLL (34/42)
U’ M2' U' M U2' M' U' M2' // PLL (42/42)


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## mafergut (Jun 29, 2017)

mafergut said:


> I think single will eventually get sub-4 but I don't think we'll ever see a sub-5 average. I agree that sub-6 could happen any time soon... but it could also resist for another 3-4 years, imho.



So, like, really? C'mon Feliks, we said maybe some "years", not "days"!


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## newtonbase (Jun 29, 2017)

mafergut said:


> So, like, really? C'mon Feliks, we said maybe some "years", not "days"!


Feliks blogged that he thought the average would go sub 6s by the end of next year. He obviously got impatient.


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## Selkie (Jun 29, 2017)

Logiqx said:


> I was doing factory solves with one of my team. He averages around 45 seconds using F2L + 4LLL so we were aiming for sub-30



Impressive mate, did we ever manage a sub 20 in London?


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## Logiqx (Jun 29, 2017)

Selkie said:


> Impressive mate, did we ever manage a sub 20 in London?



No but then we did have a few too many beers.

Callum, Ollie and I were doing quite well at the last meeting; 15.3 sungle, 18.5 Ao5, 20.3 Ao12


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## David Zemdegs (Jun 29, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> Feliks blogged that he thought the average would go sub 6s by the end of next year. He obviously got impatient.


He was talking about me


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## NewbieCuber (Jun 29, 2017)

Progress report:

After almost 4 weeks of cubing I'm consistently solving around 1:30 with the beginner method. I'm now learning 2 look OLL and 2 look PLL. Good news: When I remember my algs correctly my times are dropping down to the 1:10 range. When I don't remember my algs correctly I get a complete train wreck  I practice and practice the algs, but when the timer starts I'm somehow missing a move and end up with a white face on the top. Oh well, that's nothing that more practice can't fix.

My goal a week ago was to have a sub 1:30 Ao5 and I've hit that several times. A 1 minute average seems far away, but then again, a sub 2 minute average seemed impossible 4 weeks ago. 

Even though I'm focusing on learning my OLL and PLL algs I'm finding that just by solving a couple hundred times I'm getting faster and faster with the white cross. I'm rarely solving the cross in place but I'm now solving the cross in the proper color relationship to each other and then rotating into place. It's interesting to see the change in my perception of the cube. This thing was a total mystery a month ago and each day it's making more and more sense. I'm really enjoying that part of the process.


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## JanW (Jun 29, 2017)

NewbieCuber said:


> I'm now learning 2 look OLL and 2 look PLL. Good news: When I remember my algs correctly my times are dropping down to the 1:10 range. When I don't remember my algs correctly I get a complete train wreck  I practice and practice the algs, but when the timer starts I'm somehow missing a move and end up with a white face on the top. Oh well, that's nothing that more practice can't fix.


Keep it up and you'll get there! The first algs are the hardest to learn. With time you will also get much better at learning algs. It's a bit like learning the piano. The beginner will learn and memorize a new piece one note at a time, while the more experienced player thinks in chords, chord progressions or harmonic relationships, which means much less to memorize. Similarly, when learning your first cubing algs, it's pretty much learning them one move at a time. When you learn more algs, you start seeing patterns and triggers to group moves together. Then that 15 move alg might be memorized as 2 or 3 items, instead of 15.

If you are still thinking about algs as a series of separate moves, I would recommend you also look at how certain pieces move. For example, for many of the corner orienting algs, look at the front right F2L pair and how they move while you execute the alg. Then you can memorize the alg by remembering that movement, instead of thinking of every single move.


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## pglewis (Jun 29, 2017)

NewbieCuber said:


> Progress report:
> 
> After almost 4 weeks of cubing I'm consistently solving around 1:30 with the beginner method. I'm now learning 2 look OLL and 2 look PLL. Good news: When I remember my algs correctly my times are dropping down to the 1:10 range. When I don't remember my algs correctly I get a complete train wreck  I practice and practice the algs, but when the timer starts I'm somehow missing a move and end up with a white face on the top. Oh well, that's nothing that more practice can't fix.
> 
> ...



Congrats on the progress! You're moving much faster than I did, but most people do . I discovered I don't have a very good innate spatial sense for the cube but this journey has improved that drastically. 

The algs definitely become more automatic with practice. I can drill a new one over and over on its own and then have immediate amnesia when it turns up in a real solve. I find that making the recognition connection takes more work for me than learning algs, themselves. The 7 OCLL algs-- the ones for when all edges are already oriented, eg top cross solved-- are probably the most vital initially. Fixing edge orientation for 2-look OLL is only three cases (plus solved) and they're short, fast, and have such a high frequency that you'll get a lot of practice with them. Recognition develops quickly for it, I can still two look OLL nearly as fast as I one look it at my stage because my recognition for 2 look is so fast and well developed, relatively speaking. 

If you're going with CFOP I'd still put most of my eggs into the F2L basket. Once you get 4-look LL you're not going to have 50 seconds to shave from cross and last layer combined. My cross, last layer, finger tricks, and dexterity continue to improve just as a by-product of practice with a primary focus on F2L and lookahead. The algs I'm currently learning are an investment in the future and not immediate time-savers. My F2L lookahead develops a lot more slowly than my alg learning so whenever I'm comfortable with the algs I know I just add a couple more. Improved F2L is still where I have the most low hanging fruit.


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## NewbieCuber (Jun 29, 2017)

JanW said:


> If you are still thinking about algs as a series of separate moves, I would recommend you also look at how certain pieces move. For example, for many of the corner orienting algs, look at the front right F2L pair and how they move while you execute the alg. Then you can memorize the alg by remembering that movement, instead of thinking of every single move.




I like that idea a lot! That really does make sense. Thank you.


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## mwhities (Jun 30, 2017)

Introduction of an older OH (future?) speed cuber. I'm 42 and grayer than what I should be. 

I am part of a speed cube group on FB and a gentleman on there invited me here. I apologize in advance to him, as I was supposed to do this a month or more so ago. 

Any ways, I'm a beginner one-arm solver. I do only have one-arm and started learning to solve to teach my two boys how to do it. Well, that's a completely different story now as I'm leering the way I have to. 

Still helping my boys with the normal algorithms. My oldest beats me to the yellow cross by a good minute or so. Long are the days I beat him.

My youngest is catching up really fast as well. It's crazy how slow I picked it up and how fast they are. Loving every minute of it. 

I learn(ed/ing) CFOP and I was trying to do everything left handed. Gah! Found Peter Hung's site and had to relearn what little I had already learned. 

I am pretty good at getting the C, the F2L is getting there and I'm trying to learn to do pairs. I can do it. But it takes me a while to get them together. I know I've become faster, but still over 3 minutes. 

I'm still not able to solve without looking at the algorithms for OLL and PLL. Slowly learning them and hoping to get the OLL learned in the next few months. 

So, it's not much of an intro, but it's a start 

Any suggestions or comments or anything would be appreciated. 

One question I do have if any of you OH with the right hand, what's a good B/B' finger trick?


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## Jason Green (Jun 30, 2017)

David Zemdegs said:


> He was talking about me


That would be awesome, I wouldn't doubt Feliks!


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## newtonbase (Jun 30, 2017)

mwhities said:


> I am part of a speed cube group on FB and a gentleman on there invited me here. I apologize in advance to him, as I was supposed to do this a month or more so ago.


That was me. Glad you made it.


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## Selkie (Jun 30, 2017)

mwhities said:


> I am part of a speed cube group on FB and a gentleman on there invited me here. I apologize in advance to him, as I was supposed to do this a month or more so ago.



I remember your post on that group, welcome.

I am afraid I am not the best on this thread to advise on OH, its a discipline I gave up a few years ago. I have lost some dexterity in my left hand with age which I can hide in 2 handed solving but it is obvious when you see me solve a megaminx as all my U and U' are with my right hand on that puzzle.

I solve(ed) OH with the left hand though I am right handed for the same reason as most. Right handed 2 handed algorithms suit left handed one handed. The reason being is a lot of 2H algs are R and U heavy and in the left hand R and U are easy, U with index and R with pinky.

I would concentrate on finding sites that specialise in OH algs now rather than learn 2H awkward algs and then have to relearn later. 

Here is Antoine Cantin's site, he is one of the best OH in the world:-

https://sites.google.com/site/antoineccantin/oh

You may ask why I have linked a LH OH site but these are very optimised algs and if you pick a mirror case and L/R mirror the alg it may prove useful. e.g. Ja for LH is Jb for RH with teh alg mirrored R to L, so R U R' U' becomes L' U' L U.

Hope that is of some use and again, welcome to the old mans mad house


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## Selkie (Jun 30, 2017)

Escher said:


> That's a smile I won't wipe off for a while  Yeah I'm doing alright cheers, yourself? Studying again and doing my best to stay on-topic, never an easy task  You'll definitely see me later this year, I just need some system that notifies me of local competition reg opening as I don't much browse here any more...



Yeah I am all good thanks buddy. Getting older but luckily still just getting faster. Been though redundancy and re-employment in the last 6 months but absolutely love the new job so all for the best. Glad to hear life is treating you well. The UK comps are announced on FB by UKCA but I note you aren't on FB anymore. Wonder if UKCA or even WCA would consider comp announcement email notifications moving forward. Now that would be a nice idea...


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## newtonbase (Jun 30, 2017)

Selkie said:


> Wonder if UKCA or even WCA would consider comp announcement email notifications moving forward. Now that would be a nice idea...


They already do 
Subscribe at the bottom of the home page. 
http://www.ukca.org


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## mark49152 (Jun 30, 2017)

Selkie said:


> The UK comps are announced on FB by UKCA but I note you aren't on FB anymore. Wonder if UKCA or even WCA would consider comp announcement email notifications moving forward. Now that would be a nice idea...


If you go to www.ukca.org and scroll to the bottom you can add your email address to get notified of new posts, which includes comp announcements. That's what I do as I'm rarely on FB and it's worked well for me so far, although the last two announcements (dates of future comps, and ABHC announcement) didn't appear to generate an email. Not sure if @Evan Liu reads this but maybe he can confirm it still works.


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## Selkie (Jun 30, 2017)

Ah thanks @newtonbase and @mark49152 most useful my friends. Does that help @Escher ?


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## newtonbase (Jun 30, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> it's worked well for me so far, although the last two announcements (dates of future comps, and ABHC announcement) didn't appear to generate an email. Not sure if @Evan Liu reads this but maybe he can confirm it still works.


I got emails for both of these.


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## mark49152 (Jun 30, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> I got emails for both of these.


Time to check my junk folder.


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## mwhities (Jun 30, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> That was me. Glad you made it.



Awesome! Sorry it took so long, between weight training, studying, losing my job (RIF), spending time with my boys, and trying to find another job, I've been busy. I'm still practicing on my cubes though.

Did get a job, so not so bad now.


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## newtonbase (Jun 30, 2017)

mwhities said:


> Awesome! Sorry it took so long, between weight training, studying, losing my job (RIF), spending time with my boys, and trying to find another job, I've been busy. I'm still practicing on my cubes though.
> 
> Did get a job, so not so bad now.


It can be hard to fit everything in for us grown ups. Glad you found a job. 

I'm subscribed to your YouTube channel and enjoy watching your challenges.


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## phreaker (Jun 30, 2017)

mwhities said:


> Introduction of an older OH (future?) speed cuber. I'm 42 and grayer than what I should be.
> 
> Any suggestions or comments or anything would be appreciated.
> 
> One question I do have if any of you OH with the right hand, what's a good B/B' finger trick?



X' U/U' is one way... X D/D' is the other way, flicking D with with the ring finger. I most commonly do it as the latter for some reason. Note, I don't actually rotate the cube I move my hand around it, a bit.. So my thumb is on the center of D, Index on the center of U.

In general my answer to "How do you do B OH" is "Don't." (Except when scrambling.)

I enjoy OH. I'm not great at it. But it is fun.

You might also find ZZ or Roux interesting for OH. (I use ZZ. But Roux is great if you have a table.)


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## mafergut (Jul 1, 2017)

@mwhities Welcome to the thread! It's always nice to know that our beloved hobby has found another "victim" 

I solved today for the 1st time my new ShengShou 4x4 Mastermorphix. It was a lot of fun. Instead of normal reduction I used a method to reduce it to a 2x2 that I learned from a couple youtube tutorials. Nice thing of this method is that you avoid parity issues, and it also requires no algs at all, except for 2x2 algs of course, and beginners' corner twisting "alg".

I also ordered a couple of the WitEden Camouflage series (the 4x4x3 and the 3x3x2, I think). Trying to extend a bit my collection of non-WCA puzzles now that I am basically off the speed solving game.


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## newtonbase (Jul 1, 2017)

mafergut said:


> @mwhities Welcome to the thread! It's always nice to know that our beloved hobby has found another "victim"
> 
> I solved today for the 1st time my new ShengShou 4x4 Mastermorphix. It was a lot of fun. Instead of normal reduction I used a method to reduce it to a 2x2 that I learned from a couple youtube tutorials. Nice thing of this method is that you avoid parity issues, and it also requires no algs at all, except for 2x2 algs of course, and beginners' corner twisting "alg".
> 
> I also ordered a couple of the WitEden Camouflage series (the 4x4x3 and the 3x3x2, I think). Trying to extend a bit my collection of non-WCA puzzles now that I am basically off the speed solving game.


I'm glad that you have found a decent method. The 3x3 version is my most difficult shape mod so I've not bothered with the 4x4. I may reconsider now. 
I placed my first order in ages last night. Got what I hope is a decent pyraminx for the World Championships and added an Ivy cube to the order as it looks nice.


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## mafergut (Jul 1, 2017)

Which pyra? XMD or Moyu? I assume magnetic, of course


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## Jason Green (Jul 1, 2017)

My wuque M unboxing, and other silliness.


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## teacher77 (Jul 1, 2017)

new PB for mo10 : 22.69, down from my previous 23.22 performed on May 15th.

17.55,23.28,23.22,25.41,26.36,23.73,21.71,21.81,20.95,22.93


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## mark49152 (Jul 2, 2017)

Well, I succumbed to the magnet hype and ordered a GTS2M. It arrived this week and I have to say, it is great. Out of the box it is by far the best cube I've ever bought. It's hard to say how much of that is down to the magnets as I don't have a regular GTS2 to compare to, but all round, it is truly an excellent cube.

Regarding the magnets themselves, I like the effect simply because it makes the cube feel more stable. After adapting to the different feel, I'm not really aware of them while solving, and I don't think the advantage is in compensating for sloppy turning, although time will tell if they make me a more sloppy turner. I think the advantage is in keeping the cube cubic, which makes the whole solving experience feel more precise. I think that's consistent with what @newtonbase was saying a few weeks ago.

I've done 100 regular 3x3 solves and was very close to PB ao100. I've only done a handful of BLD solves but I'm not so keen on it for BLD so far, as I rely 100% on feel and have not yet got used to the snappy feel of the magnets, so it's a bit disconcerting.

Still, I am going to shelve it for now as I do not want to become dependent or have my style disrupted before Worlds, given that I have 20 MBLD cubes without magnets . After that I might try switching for 3x3 only, staying with non-magnetic for BLD, and see how that goes.


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## mwhities (Jul 2, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> It can be hard to fit everything in for us grown ups. Glad you found a job.
> 
> I'm subscribed to your YouTube channel and enjoy watching your challenges.



Adulting is not fun at all. Haha 

Are you referring to my food challenges? Haha a man has to have another hobby.


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## newtonbase (Jul 2, 2017)

mafergut said:


> Which pyra? XMD or Moyu? I assume magnetic, of course


I went for the non magnetic Motu. I bought one for my nephew ages ago and it felt nicer than the others I have which including a magnetic one (Qiyi maybe?). I'm still not intending to practice until the day but might as use a puzzle I'm comfortable with.



mwhities said:


> Adulting is not fun at all. Haha
> 
> Are you referring to my food challenges? Haha a man has to have another hobby.


Yes, the food challenges. They're fun to watch.

@mark49152 Glad you've come over to the dark side. I serviced some of my magnetic Thunderclaps yesterday and was remarking on how lovely they feel. You can try them in Paris then buy some magnets ☺


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## h2f (Jul 2, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> Motu



 New brand on market? 

Yes, magnets are cool. I'm thinking of magnetizing my Wuque.


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## newtonbase (Jul 2, 2017)

h2f said:


> New brand on market?
> 
> Yes, magnets are cool. I'm thinking of magnetizing my Wuque.



Alcohol is my defence. 

Everything should be magnetised.


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## mark49152 (Jul 2, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> Alcohol is my defence.
> 
> Everything should be magnetised.


Magnetic beer?


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## h2f (Jul 2, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> Magnetic beer?



Ha ha ha.


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## JanW (Jul 2, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> Magnetic beer?


The magnetic effect of beer tends to be illusory. After a few you think you are magnetic to the opposite sex, but that isn't necessarily so...


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## mark49152 (Jul 2, 2017)

JanW said:


> The magnetic effect of beer tends to be illusory. After a few you think you are magnetic to the opposite sex, but that isn't necessarily so...


It's amazing the range of things beer can make magnetic. Like floors. Or kebabs.


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## pglewis (Jul 2, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> I don't have a regular GTS2 to compare to, but all round, it is truly an excellent cube



It's a fantastic puzzle without magnets as well, the non-magnetic stickerless usurped the Valk as my main. I didn't intend to get a magnetic one but I wanted a backup and the Cubicle had the M on sale for the same price as the non-magnetic so... no brainer. 

I'm not sure what I think on M-slices yet, it may just take some getting used to and I've only had mine a couple days. Chris Tran also suggested some time back that the M-slice issue with magnetic cubes is at least partially due to the mass/inertia difference since edges only have 2 magnets per and you're only turning edges. His simple solution was to drop a washer in the centers to even-up the mass for M slices. 

My _primary_ concern is how durable the glue will be against impact shock over time. 



mark49152 said:


> I think the advantage is in keeping the cube cubic, which makes the whole solving experience feel more precise.



This, and related: I think I'll be able to set looser tensions than normal without it going all wobbly. I've been adjusting to as light a turning style as possible under the premise that any effort beyond what is needed to turn a face is wasted energy. I would loosen my non-M more than I have otherwise; I think the magnetic one will allow for that. 



mark49152 said:


> I do not want to become dependent or have my style disrupted before Worlds, given that I have 20 MBLD cubes without magnets



As a blind n00b I can see myself getting addicted to the M for the extra alignment confidence, but then I considered eventually moving up to mbld and the cost of 5 of them lol. Better start stashing away my pennies.


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## newtonbase (Jul 2, 2017)

pglewis said:


> My _primary_ concern is how durable the glue will be against impact shock over time.


I've used superglue to make mine. It is quite brittle so I have to do repairs fairly often but it only takes a minute once you've worked out where the problem is. I found 2 of 3 magnets from one corner piece had got loose the other day. The other option is to not drop them but that doesn't fit my life. 



pglewis said:


> As a blind n00b I can see myself getting addicted to the M for the extra alignment confidence, but then I considered eventually moving up to mbld and the cost of 5 of them lol. Better start stashing away my pennies.


You could buy and mod 5 Thunderclaps for under £30.


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## Jason Green (Jul 2, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> It's amazing the range of things beer can make magnetic. Like floors. Or kebabs.


That's hilarious! I think I will poor some beer over all my cubes now. 

The Wuque M is just amazing. It partly shows me how horrible I am at setting up cubes. It just makes my other wuque feel like a bunch of rocks glued together.  Of course my wuque was never near this good, but the first one was not set up by the cubicle either. I should have my first sub 1 minute soon, I was close yesterday just need a bit of luck. 

Edit: PB single for the first time in forever! Reconstruction later, I confirmed I can remember it.


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## xyzzy (Jul 2, 2017)

pglewis said:


> Chris Tran also suggested some time back that the M-slice issue with magnetic cubes is at least partially due to the mass/inertia difference since edges only have 2 magnets per and you're only turning edges. His simple solution was to drop a washer in the centers to even-up the mass for M slices.



Making a slice move would require overcoming twice the magnetic pull of a single-outer-layer move, which means you need a larger angular impulse to get it moving. If you assume that the slice and outer layers have roughly equal moments of inertia, doubling the forces involved is equivalent to halving the time scale (i.e. everything happens twice as fast). If the moment of inertia of the slice layers is _less_ than the moment of inertia of the outer layers (because slices have less added mass from magnets), then the difference is even more pronounced. These factors considered together might explain why some people think M slices on magnetic cubes feel less controllable. (This is a spherical-cow argument that doesn't account for friction, which complicates things a lot, and friction is not negligible in this scenario. A further complication is that modelling human hands as applying instantaneous impulses is kinda inaccurate. The net effect of these complications seems to be that this model exaggerates the difference between the slice and outer layers.)

Basically: more torque needed ⇒ faster slices; less moment of inertia ⇒ faster slices too. Unless you're using excessively strong magnets, the latter factor (difference in moment of inertia) is probably more important than the former (doubled magnetic pull).

Adding weights to the centres increases the moment of inertia of the slices, while leaving the moment of inertia of the outer layers essentially unchanged, thereby slowing the slices down and increasing controllability. You still need more force to move the slices compared to the outer layers because of the doubled magnetic pull, but with reasonable magnet strengths, this probably isn't much of an issue.

(not sure why I typed all of this out, but I guess I needed _some_ place to organise my thoughts on this topic)


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## pglewis (Jul 3, 2017)

xyzzy said:


> (not sure why I typed all of this out, but I guess I needed _some_ place to organise my thoughts on this topic)



I love seeing people thinking this out on the physics side... I don't really grasp it all without digging in but that's the sort of thing that continues to bring us better puzzles.


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## mark49152 (Jul 3, 2017)

Today's BLD fail: Attempted 16 in MBLD and somehow managed to use the wrong memo for 4 of them! When I got to the cubes in those 4 rooms I realised I'd already executed that memo. I backtracked all 4 then did the correct execution, and 3 of those were successes. The other one I messed up while backtracking.

2 of the other 12 were wrong, and time for memo and the 16 executions before backtracking was 1:02, so this could have been 13 or 14/16 in 1:02. So I still see it as progress since my last 16 attempt was over 10 mins longer for 10/16.

The reason for the mistake was that I've changed my rooms to fit more cubes in, and I'm not yet used to the new system. I needed more rooms to accommodate all the BLD events at WC without having to recycle rooms too soon.


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## newtonbase (Jul 3, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> Today's BLD fail: Attempted 16 in MBLD and somehow managed to use the wrong memo for 4 of them! When I got to the cubes in those 4 rooms I realised I'd already executed that memo. I backtracked all 4 then did the correct execution, and 3 of those were successes. The other one I messed up while backtracking.
> 
> 2 of the other 12 were wrong, and time for memo and the 16 executions before backtracking was 1:02, so this could have been 13 or 14/16 in 1:02. So I still see it as progress since my last 16 attempt was over 10 mins longer for 10/16.
> 
> The reason for the mistake was that I've changed my rooms to fit more cubes in, and I'm not yet used to the new system. I needed more rooms to accommodate all the BLD events at WC without having to recycle rooms too soon.


That's a pretty good fail. 

I've been on a real low in 3BLD for the last few days. About 80% fail rate and my successes are mostly well over 2 mins. I have no idea what's happening but it's not the first time. I just wish I knew what affects these cycles.


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## h2f (Jul 3, 2017)

@mark49152 nice progress. @newtonbase, maybe you need a break. Those things happen for all.


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## mark49152 (Jul 3, 2017)

h2f said:


> @mark49152 nice progress. @newtonbase, maybe you need a break. Those things happen for all.


Thanks. Yes breaks often help, but I think BLD is very susceptible to form anyway - more so than regular speedsolving. Things like tiredness, stress, diet and general health make a big difference. If I try BLD when too hungry, I am almost useless.


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## h2f (Jul 3, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> Thanks. Yes breaks often help, but I think BLD is very susceptible to form anyway - more so than regular speedsolving. Things like tiredness, stress, diet and general health make a big difference. If I try BLD when too hungry, I am almost useless.



Yes. I cant solve bld when I've slept too short.


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## moralsh (Jul 3, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> That's a pretty good fail.
> 
> I've been on a real low in 3BLD for the last few days. About 80% fail rate and my successes are mostly well over 2 mins. I have no idea what's happening but it's not the first time. I just wish I knew what affects these cycles.



I've been really useless at comps in3BLD for quite some time now and it has made me lost some interest in the category, I still can sub 1:30 at home in 5 solves or so but nothing at comps, my PB is a year and a half old.

Worlds are 10 days away and I can't find time to practice, so I really have no goals at all for worlds other than meet some great cubers.

Speaking of that w should at least get together for a photo and I'd like to find time for a couple of beers  we gotta find time!


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## mark49152 (Jul 3, 2017)

@moralsh: Absolutely, photo and beer, maybe even at the same time 

3BLD can be frustrating. For me it's similar to 3x3 and 2x2 in comp - it's short and fast enough that nerves or lack of composure always have a negative impact. My official times in these events always lag behind what I can do at home, whereas for longer events my official and home times are much closer.

My main goals for WC are to meet cool people and enjoy the experience. Of course I'd like some PBs too and I always have goals in mind for those


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## newtonbase (Jul 4, 2017)

h2f said:


> @mark49152 nice progress. @newtonbase, maybe you need a break. Those things happen for all.


Yes, but I do have a fairly important comp coning up soon.



mark49152 said:


> Thanks. Yes breaks often help, but I think BLD is very susceptible to form anyway - more so than regular speedsolving. Things like tiredness, stress, diet and general health make a big difference. If I try BLD when too hungry, I am almost useless.


I'm surprised at how often I've done well on very little sleep but to be fair I don't think I've had 2 good nights together since 2008.



moralsh said:


> Worlds are 10 days away and I can't find time to practice, so I really have no goals at all for worlds other than meet some great cubers.
> 
> Speaking of that w should at least get together for a photo and I'd like to find time for a couple of beers  we gotta find time!



We got a great photo at UK 2016 but I think we can do better! I only get there on the Saturday so I hope that will be convenient for beer. I'm quite keen on trying some speed drinking. Hopefully we can put the youngsters in their place.



mark49152 said:


> @moralsh: Absolutely, photo and beer, maybe even at the same time
> 
> 3BLD can be frustrating. For me it's similar to 3x3 and 2x2 in comp - it's short and fast enough that nerves or lack of composure always have a negative impact. My official times in these events always lag behind what I can do at home, whereas for longer events my official and home times are much closer.
> 
> My main goals for WC are to meet cool people and enjoy the experience. Of course I'd like some PBs too and I always have goals in mind for those


As I'm doing only 2 events my PB chances are limited but the chance of having a great time with fellow cubers is very high.


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## Selkie (Jul 4, 2017)

Yeah @mark49152 , I found the GTS2M the best 3x3 ever out of the box. I opted for the lubed and setup Cubicle Labs GTS2M rather than standard and haven't used another 3x3 since. It felt a little sluggish yesterday (~500 solves in) so I put in some DNM-37 lube, which I use instead of Maru as go faster juice now. Ha ha ha, it was insane. The turning resistance reminded me of the MF8 legend 3x3 which came out hmm 6 years ago with a ball core and could easily do a D4 with a touch of a ring finger. However the magnets are even more prominent due to the lack of resistance and help in aligning but still felt challenging to control. I was getting quite a few random 11.x full steps so have decided on this setup for London Open this weekend. It will be a sub 15 average or hilarious trying 

The WuQue M is also a pleasure to solve on, again Cubicle Labs variety and has helped me drop 1 second overall in a fortnight.

I remember at UK Championships in November nearly all my mains cube were QiYi but now a bit Moyu in my 2x2-7x7 selection:-

2x2 - Moyu Weipo
3x3 - Cubicle Labs Moyu Weilong GTS2M
4x4 - Cubicle Labs Qiyi WuQue M
5x5 - Moyu Weichuang
6x6 - Moyu Weishi
7x7 - Qiyi Wuji - though the Yuxin Huanglong is getting close as I do more random solves on it


----------



## pglewis (Jul 4, 2017)

Blind solves getting faster, sighted solves getting slower. 

Ran the timer for 3bld for the first time since January, I've done enough untimed solves now. The first few were over 10 mins then I got a feel for the rhythm needed to go a little faster. Mostly failures in the 8-10 min range but one of my rare successes was also one of my fastest attempts at 7:09 (best from January was ~11 mins). Tracking edge cycles kills me, I'll eventually shave minutes there, alone. 

Sighted solves, I'm back to tinkering with my F2L _again_, added new algs and trying to focus on better CP recog for PLL. Not expecting any PBs short of a lightning-strike single for a while.


----------



## newtonbase (Jul 4, 2017)

pglewis said:


> Mostly failures in the 8-10 min range but one of my rare successes was also one of my fastest attempts at 7:09 (best from January was ~11 mins). Tracking edge cycles kills me, I'll eventually shave minutes there, alone.


I find the same in that I have a much higher success rate on quicker attempts. 
Tracing edge cycles would be much easier if we had more fingers.  You'll improve a lot now that you know your method and are doing timed solves.


----------



## newtonbase (Jul 4, 2017)

Has everyone seen their WC schedules? I'll be competing for a 50 minute block late on Saturday and I'm done. I'm staffing on Sunday morning so no lie in.


----------



## mark49152 (Jul 4, 2017)

Yeah mine looks OK although Saturday is going to be a pretty relentless day


----------



## newtonbase (Jul 4, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> Yeah mine looks OK although Saturday is going to be a pretty relentless day


Are you staff?


----------



## muchacho (Jul 4, 2017)

OH PBs:
Ao5: 23.302 (was 23.862 from 4 weeks ago)
Mo100: 29.063 (29.501 from 3 weeks ago)

I learned a couple of algs last weekend, but I was not brave enough to use them and risk a PB. I'll try now.


----------



## mark49152 (Jul 4, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> Are you staff?


Yes, Fri til Sun.


----------



## moralsh (Jul 4, 2017)

I'm all four days and on the same team as Mark on the weekend. my only really relaxed day is Thursday, but we'll manage


----------



## newtonbase (Jul 4, 2017)

It's going to be fun.


----------



## mwhities (Jul 5, 2017)

Selkie said:


> I remember your post on that group, welcome.
> 
> I am afraid I am not the best on this thread to advise on OH, its a discipline I gave up a few years ago. I have lost some dexterity in my left hand with age which I can hide in 2 handed solving but it is obvious when you see me solve a megaminx as all my U and U' are with my right hand on that puzzle.
> 
> ...



Hey! Thank you. Sorry I missed this and a few others. 

I'll look into this, I'm currently using peter-hung.com for right hand OH. Thoughts on that site?



phreaker said:


> X' U/U' is one way... X D/D' is the other way, flicking D with with the ring finger. I most commonly do it as the latter for some reason. Note, I don't actually rotate the cube I move my hand around it, a bit.. So my thumb is on the center of D, Index on the center of U.
> 
> In general my answer to "How do you do B OH" is "Don't." (Except when scrambling.)
> 
> ...



I kinda do that too while keeping the F toward me without X'. I'll look into ZZ and Roux.



mafergut said:


> @mwhities Welcome to the thread! It's always nice to know that our beloved hobby has found another "victim"
> 
> I solved today for the 1st time my new ShengShou 4x4 Mastermorphix. It was a lot of fun. Instead of normal reduction I used a method to reduce it to a 2x2 that I learned from a couple youtube tutorials. Nice thing of this method is that you avoid parity issues, and it also requires no algs at all, except for 2x2 algs of course, and beginners' corner twisting "alg".
> 
> I also ordered a couple of the WitEden Camouflage series (the 4x4x3 and the 3x3x2, I think). Trying to extend a bit my collection of non-WCA puzzles now that I am basically off the speed solving game.



Thank you. I'm definitely a victim. I had to stop practicing for a few days. Fingers were sore and the algorithms I learned were starting to all run together.


----------



## muchacho (Jul 5, 2017)

mwhities said:


> I'm currently using peter-hung.com for right hand OH. Thoughts on that site?


Last updated in 2013, probably there are better algs, maybe in algdb.net.


----------



## JanW (Jul 5, 2017)

Some nice 4x4 progress lately. Yesterday I got my first sub 1:40 Ao5 with 1:38.xx and a 1:45.xx Ao12. Today, with the first 12 solves, this improved to 1:31.7 Ao5 and 1:38.2 Ao12. I now barely have enough timed solves for a running Ao100. Running Ao50/100 at 1:49.5/1:59.3. Ao100 still includes lots of 2:30-3:00 solves from maybe one year back.


----------



## mwhities (Jul 5, 2017)

muchacho said:


> Last updated in 2013, probably there are better algs, maybe in algdb.net.



Awesome! Thank you. I'll look at these now. Greatly appreciated.


----------



## Shaky Hands (Jul 5, 2017)

Seems I was due 12 pages of catch-up on this thread!

Congratulations to everyone on their recent successes and special congratulations to @h2f for becoming a member of the board of Polish Speedcubing Association and to @Selkie for becoming part of the WCA Finance Committee.

Personally I've had PB singles and averages recently on 6x6, 7x7, SQ1 and MegaMinx. I've not been timing 4x4 or 5x5 recently, but in casual solves they've felt good, so hoping that I can translate all of these into decent official results at the London Open this coming weekend (with some of the cubing world's most well-known names in attendance.)

Then it will be off to the World Championships in Paris, where I only qualify for 3x3, 2x2 and Pyra. I haven't actually sovled a 2x2 since April or a Pyra since January, but I suspect I will get some practice time to do so. My main aim for the event, other than meeting some cool people, is to not be in the bottom 10% at 3x3.

I've ordered some more cubes from Cubicle, but it's very much "wait-and-see" as to whether they arrive before the weekend. Also donated some less-used cubes to a buddy that is learning to cube and is considering coming to a comp later in 2017.

Good luck to everyone competing at US Nationals or elsewhere this weekend, and hope I'll get a chance to meet some more of you in person at the World Championships. @moralsh - I'm up for a photo opportunity. @newtonbase - speed-drinking, yes please! Everyone - do say hello if you see me around!  I'll be part of the staff Thursday, Friday and Sunday.


----------



## newtonbase (Jul 5, 2017)

Shaky Hands said:


> @newtonbase - speed-drinking, yes please!


Common sense tells me speed drinking is a bad idea when I am running/judging from 9am they next day. But, common sense rarely kicks in when I'm sat behind a pint in good company. 
My lunchtime 3BLD session has swung from a 1:43 success to a 4:47 failure. Consistency consistently eludes me.


----------



## moralsh (Jul 5, 2017)

@Shaky Hands Cool, can't wait for next week 

About speed drinking that's one of the things I've become worse due to lack of practice xD but I'll do my best. 

On 2x2 I think I'm going to do just 2 solves if I don't get one of those under 6 seconds, but yes, results on worlds are of course a minor goal I'll settle for not DNFing on 3,4 and 5 Blind or at least in 2 of them 

@h2f I didn't notice you are part of the Polish board, I've been part of the Spanish board for a year and a half, seems us oldies can help there better than with results. Congratulations and good luck with that


----------



## Shaky Hands (Jul 5, 2017)

moralsh said:


> On 2x2 I think I'm going to do just 2 solves if I don't get one of those under 6 seconds



Is there a cutoff, or is that just so you can aim for an Average PB?


----------



## moralsh (Jul 5, 2017)

Shaky Hands said:


> Is there a cutoff, or is that just so you can aim for an Average PB?


I'm afraid there is, or at least there seems to be one: http://cubecomps.com/live.php?cid=2349&cat=2&rnd=1


----------



## Shaky Hands (Jul 5, 2017)

moralsh said:


> I'm afraid there is, or at least there seems to be one: http://cubecomps.com/live.php?cid=2349&cat=2&rnd=1



OK thanks, seems strange that wasn't listed on the main schedule at http://www.rubiksworldparis2017.com/en/schedule/. As Pyra has a cutoff listed on CubeComps too, I guess my World Championships will now consist of a mere 9 solves rather than 15! 

EDIT: OK, I see it is listed on the schedule, but it required clicking on the event itself (and I didn't realise it was clickable.)


----------



## h2f (Jul 5, 2017)

@moralsh @Shaky Hands Thanks.


----------



## newtonbase (Jul 5, 2017)

Shaky Hands said:


> OK thanks, seems strange that wasn't listed on the main schedule at http://www.rubiksworldparis2017.com/en/schedule/. As Pyra has a cutoff listed on CubeComps too, I guess my World Championships will now consist of a mere 9 solves rather than 15!
> 
> EDIT: OK, I see it is listed on the schedule, but it required clicking on the event itself (and I didn't realise it was clickable.)


10s for Pyraminx! That's less embarrassment and more time to practice 3BLD then.


----------



## moralsh (Jul 5, 2017)

I didn't even registered for pyra (or Skewb or FM, in which I qualified) now I'm glad I didn't 

You could learn some 1-flip easy cases, if you're lucky to get one, you may end getting a sub 10


----------



## newtonbase (Jul 5, 2017)

moralsh said:


> I didn't even registered for pyra (or Skewb or FM, in which I qualified) now I'm glad I didn't
> 
> You could learn some 1-flip easy cases, if you're lucky to get one, you may end getting a sub 10


I'm going to stick to my normal training regime which is to relearn to solve it just before the event. Works for skewb too.


----------



## Jlvs2run (Jul 5, 2017)

I'm having trouble with first practice of OH, in particular moving index finger to front for reversal.
For example: 
Left ~ R U R' U' ~ having trouble with U
Right ~ L' U' L U ~ having trouble with U'
Especially, the index finger won't reach to the front, with middle finger touching in back. Those two fingers don't even spread that far apart. I can do the moves okay with only ring finger in back, but am not sure that's a good form. I'm using a 56mm MF3RS. Besides to keep practicing, should I look for a smaller cube, or should the range of motion increase with more practice?


----------



## muchacho (Jul 5, 2017)

I think it happens to everyone at first (me too), I thought of getting a smaller cube but practice fix everything, your fingers will reach.


3x3 PB Single: 11.289 (was 11.801 from November)

47503 05-jul-2017 20:07:17 00:11.289 D R2 D2 R2 B2 L2 U' L2 B2 F2 D B' D' F' R U R B2 R U2 R2 F2
z y2
F R' Uw'
...and I can't remember more


----------



## mark49152 (Jul 5, 2017)

I wonder what the time limits are for BLD at WC. Anybody found that info?


----------



## Shaky Hands (Jul 5, 2017)

@mark49152, 30m 4BLD, 50m 5BLD but nothing listed that I can see for 3BLD.


----------



## mark49152 (Jul 5, 2017)

Shaky Hands said:


> @mark49152, 30m 4BLD, 50m 5BLD but nothing listed that I can see for 3BLD.


Thanks. Where did you find that?


----------



## Shaky Hands (Jul 5, 2017)

They're listed on http://www.rubiksworldparis2017.com/en/schedule/ but you have to click on the event itself. I don't think it's particularly obvious that the events are clickable.


----------



## moralsh (Jul 5, 2017)

3BLD has 5min time limit, but no cumulative limit. I need to push a little to get my 3 attempts at 4BLD, same thing to get 2 5BLD done in 5 minutes


----------



## One Wheel (Jul 5, 2017)

moralsh said:


> I need to push a little . . . to get 2 5BLD done in 5 minutes



I like where you're going with that. Keep up the good work.


----------



## newtonbase (Jul 5, 2017)

moralsh said:


> I need to push a little to get my 3 attempts at 4BLD, same thing to get 2 5BLD done in 5 minutes


A little!


----------



## mark49152 (Jul 5, 2017)

Getting excited for Worlds now!

Had a great 3BLD session this evening. 5/20 were sub-1, and 4 of the others were sub-1:02. Accuracy was 14/20. Now all I need to do is find that form in comp


----------



## Selkie (Jul 6, 2017)

mwhities said:


> Hey! Thank you. Sorry I missed this and a few others.
> 
> I'll look into this, I'm currently using peter-hung.com for right hand OH. Thoughts on that site?



No need to apologise at all sir, I am more guilty than most of missing posts on here and for not offering thanks in recent times. I have been cubing far too long and often take breaks for life and the older cuber has the wisdom that life does need to come before solving.

Back on topic though I have to confess that I am probably the last mature cuber to ask about OH. To me the site looks good for RH OH which is such a niche of a niche. Perhaps one of our faster older OH solvers like @Logiqx could help with how the site fares?

One thing is for sure .. if you can get the motivation to improve from anywhere, it is here 



Shaky Hands said:


> Seems I was due 12 pages of catch-up on this thread!
> Congratulations to everyone on their recent successes and special congratulations to @h2f for becoming a member of the board of Polish Speedcubing Association and to @Selkie for becoming part of the WCA Finance Committee.



Talking of me not reading every post, I guess this is point in case! Huge congratulations (@h2f )Grzegorz on your appointment to the Board of Polish Speedcubing. Apologies I had missed the news before now. Suffice to say I believe this is great news, not just for you, but for the future of Polish cubing. You have the temperament, maturity and vision to be a great asset.

Thanks too @Shaky Hands. I am really looking forward to the opportunity to giving back to the WCA for the ~35 years of cubing I have enjoyed. Cubing has given me more than battling with ancient hands to get sub 15s or being part of this most niche of pastimes it has given me the opportunity of making new friends, some of whom I can message at stupid o'clock for the latest PB so my thanks go to you too for that 



newtonbase said:


> Common sense tells me speed drinking is a bad idea when I am running/judging from 9am they next day...



@Shaky Hands , @Logiqx , @mark49152 , @newtonbase , @bubbagrub - Hope you have a great World's. So sad to be missing it but on the flip side so happy the UK old fogies are to be so well represented. Have a blast and get some PB and enjoy the networking


----------



## Selkie (Jul 6, 2017)

So not going to worlds, hugely looking forward to this weekend and London Open. 

London Open Goals:-

Single/Average
2x2: Sub 5s/6.5s
3x3: Sub 13s/Sub 15s
4x4: Sub 55s/Sub 1m
5x5: Sub 1:55/Sub 2:00
6x6: Sub 3:40 single only
7x7: Sub 6m single only
Pyra: Sub 10s/13s

Others meh!...


----------



## kbrune (Jul 6, 2017)

Hey all! Haven't been on here in a while. Hope you all are doing well. I miss being a part of this thread. Hard to find the time with life and all that. Also since my cubing slowed down after my hugely successful Halifax comp. I find when I cube less I neglect you guys. Since I crushed my average at that comp back in March, Motivation to keep practicing fell off a cliff since I felt like I would never come close to beating it again! lol

Oddly enough though the last month or so I picked up my cube out of boredom and all of a sudden my average dropped 1 second. Thinking it was a fluke I decided to do an ao100 just to see what would come of it. I ended up with my first sub 20 average after more then 100 solves. I still couldn't believe it but ever since I've been improving still. 

I've done nothing different and learned nothing new yet the last 3 days after 500 solves. I end up with an average of 18.6x and my first ever sub 11 solve. 10.46 (PLL skip)! I don't know how but my cross planning and lookahead have improved drastically. The nice part is I still feel there's room for improving. Great feeling!

Anyway. I'm looking forward to catching up with everyone here.

Cheers!


----------



## Lazy Einstein (Jul 6, 2017)

About the OH comments from mwhities and Selkie
Try http://cube.crider.co.uk/algtrans.html with LH algs and use the L/R mirror for RH

I have two OH docs for OLL / PLL:
OLL - https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Aqomyed2ZK_r6R_WiCh0lm-gYqDGK5_msciRhxrjv0w/edit?usp=sharing
PLL - https://docs.google.com/document/d/1gjjNsEURv-gkrUrn9JvcOEGMigzgzHKe2nwkuiApZsQ/edit?usp=sharing

If you "make a copy" you can use the format and change the algs into your preferred RH OH algs. Most of the OLLs are arguably the fastest still but I haven't check in over a year since I have been using ZZ for OH(Almost done ZZ-a for OH =) )

If you have trouble converting algs, you can message me on FaceBook under "Brant Holbein" and I can help.


----------



## Lazy Einstein (Jul 6, 2017)

kbrune said:


> Hey all! Haven't been on here in a while. Hope you all are doing well. I .....



Are you in Cornwall now? I am living in Trenton and probably going to be running my first comp in Trenton or Kingston around Oct-Dec depending on life and other things.


----------



## kbrune (Jul 6, 2017)

Lazy Einstein said:


> Are you in Cornwall now? I am living in Trenton and probably going to be running my first comp in Trenton or Kingston around Oct-Dec depending on life and other things.



Yeah I live in Cornwall and work in Brockville everyday. Have we met before at comp? or on here?

Comp in Kingston? That would be awesome! I'd definitely try to be there.
barring any important thing going on. I couldn't go to NCR back in May


----------



## moralsh (Jul 6, 2017)

One Wheel said:


> I like where you're going with that. Keep up the good work.





newtonbase said:


> A little!



50 minutes  as much as I'd love to set a WR in that event, it'll probably have to wait at least to the next comp after worlds.

in all seriousness, I can sub 25 at home at least half of the time, but I really have no idea what i'll do there.


----------



## JohnnyReggae (Jul 6, 2017)

Jlvs2run said:


> I'm having trouble with first practice of OH, in particular moving index finger to front for reversal.
> For example:
> Left ~ R U R' U' ~ having trouble with U
> Right ~ L' U' L U ~ having trouble with U'
> Especially, the index finger won't reach to the front, with middle finger touching in back. Those two fingers don't even spread that far apart. I can do the moves okay with only ring finger in back, but am not sure that's a good form. I'm using a 56mm MF3RS. Besides to keep practicing, should I look for a smaller cube, or should the range of motion increase with more practice?


For OH it is a difficult move to build the dexterity for. I did start with a smaller cube, 50mm and worked my way up a 54mm to my current 55.5mm Valk. I did use a 56mm for a fair while. But really it's purely down to practice, stretching the fingers and building the dexterity required. Sort of like learning to play guitar for eg. When starting out you don't have the dexterity to stretch across the fret-board easily, but with some time it becomes a lot easier.

Practice


----------



## newtonbase (Jul 6, 2017)

It's a big weekend for comps. Good luck to everyone taking part.


----------



## moralsh (Jul 6, 2017)

Yeah, good luck to all


----------



## mark49152 (Jul 6, 2017)

London will be the first UK comp I've missed in nearly 2 years. Good luck all and I'll be glued to cubecomps


----------



## Shaky Hands (Jul 6, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> London will be the first UK comp I've missed in nearly 2 years.



You'll be missed. I believe this will reduce the number of people from 7 to 6 that have been to all the UK comps since my first one - Evan, Mollerz, Joey, Rob, Charlie and myself. Ah, I love trivia!



mark49152 said:


> Good luck all and I'll be glued to cubecomps



My best chance of PB's are SQ1 (de-facto) and Megaminx. 6x6 should be a PB if I don't pop as I had my first pure sub-5 Ao5 earlier. Maybe I'll fluke a couple more.


----------



## h2f (Jul 7, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> Getting excited for Worlds now!
> 
> Had a great 3BLD session this evening. 5/20 were sub-1, and 4 of the others were sub-1:02. Accuracy was 14/20. Now all I need to do is find that form in comp



Awsome!


----------



## Logiqx (Jul 7, 2017)

With respect to OH tips one of the best sources is Antoine Cantin's video series:

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLsPxB6KjzKdjwQtCIxwnJlflrz68CZpWa

He also lists some righty algs which are probably pretty decent. The principles for finger tricks are sure to be the same though.

See you in London - @Shaky Hands + @Selkie

Edit: Shucks, no @mark49152, @newtonbase  or @bubbagrub


----------



## Shaky Hands (Jul 7, 2017)

Logiqx said:


> See you in London - @Shaky Hands , @Selkie , @newtonbase , @bubbagrub



Think it's just Chris, you and me for London.


----------



## newtonbase (Jul 7, 2017)

Logiqx said:


> See you in London - @Shaky Hands , @Selkie , @newtonbase , @bubbagrub





Shaky Hands said:


> Think it's just Chris, you and me for London.


Unfortunately I couldn't get to 2 comps so close together.


----------



## JanW (Jul 7, 2017)

Good luck to all in your coming competitions!

For inspiration, this is one of the most interesting cubing interviews I've seen so far: 




Among other things, Felix talks you through his current world record solve and how he planned/predicted 3 F2L pairs during inspection.


----------



## mark49152 (Jul 7, 2017)

JanW said:


> Among other things, Felix talks you through his current world record solve and how he planned/predicted 3 F2L pairs during inspection.


Yeah that was interesting. Multi-slotting FTW


----------



## Logiqx (Jul 7, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> Unfortunately I couldn't get to 2 comps so close together.



Shucks. 50% of the UK oldies in attendance this time.

We'll see the rest of you next week!


----------



## Selkie (Jul 7, 2017)

I think I am all packed. Leaving to drive to London in about an hour. Staying in Hatfield north of M25 should be at the venue in the morning by 8. Looking forward to seeing you guys


----------



## pglewis (Jul 7, 2017)

Good luck to all the UK oldies and everyone going to US Nationals this weekend!


----------



## chtiger (Jul 7, 2017)

Who from the thread is at US Nats?


----------



## h2f (Jul 7, 2017)

chtiger said:


> Who from the thread is at US Nats?


@Jason Green is. I saw his realtion on FB when he was going there.


----------



## mark49152 (Jul 7, 2017)

Good luck @Jason Green!


----------



## efattah (Jul 7, 2017)

JanW said:


> Good luck to all in your coming competitions!
> 
> For inspiration, this is one of the most interesting cubing interviews I've seen so far:
> 
> ...



Totally awesome video interview. Indeed his walkthrough of the world record solve was amazing, certainly the craziest part was ignoring the F2L pair in order to create the 3rd pair at the same time. However in my mind even more amazing is the revelation that his world class megaminx times (circa 40 seconds) have happened even though he uses 4 LOOK last layer! 2 look OLL and 2 look PLL! Which is very few algorithms, compared to Yu Da Hyun who uses 1,000 algorithms for the last layer...!


----------



## Malkom (Jul 7, 2017)

efattah said:


> Totally awesome video interview. Indeed his walkthrough of the world record solve was amazing, certainly the craziest part was ignoring the F2L pair in order to create the 3rd pair at the same time. However in my mind even more amazing is the revelation that his world class megaminx times (circa 40 seconds) have happened even though he uses 4 LOOK last layer! 2 look OLL and 2 look PLL! Which is very few algorithms, compared to Yu Da Hyun who uses 1,000 algorithms for the last layer...!


40 + easy PLLs ~90 algs isn't too far off Yu Da Hyun ~200 Algs, Senior Pablo on the other hand knows more than 300 LL algs.


----------



## mafergut (Jul 7, 2017)

Good luck to you all going to Paris!!!


----------



## bubbagrub (Jul 7, 2017)

Logiqx said:


> Shucks. 50% of the UK oldies in attendance this time.
> 
> We'll see the rest of you next week!



Yep -- I'm afraid I'm in the same boat as @newtonbase. So no London for me, but we'll be there for Worlds.

Good luck everyone this weekend! I'm predicting a world record number of world records broken in the next 7 days...


----------



## Lid (Jul 7, 2017)

Malkom said:


> 40 + easy PLLs ~90 algs isn't too far off Yu Da Hyun ~200 Algs, Senior Pablo on the other hand knows more than 300 LL algs.


Yeah, Juan now knows full Megaminx OLL+PLL = 410


----------



## newtonbase (Jul 7, 2017)

bubbagrub said:


> Yep -- I'm afraid I'm in the same boat as @newtonbase. So no London for me, but we'll be there for Worlds.
> 
> Good luck everyone this weekend! I'm predicting a world record number of world records broken in the next 7 days...


There's some crazy quality cubing coming up. Did you see Feliks' WC 3x3 group posted on Facebook?


----------



## newtonbase (Jul 7, 2017)

Group 41 3x3 WC 
Alexander Lau
Alexandre Carlier
Antoine Cantin
Bill Wang
Collin Burns
Cornelius Dieckmann
Dario Roa Sánchez
Drew Brads
Feliks Zemdegs
Jayden McNeill
Kevin Costello III
Kevin Gerhardt
Lucas Etter
Martin Vædele Egdal
Mats Valk
Max Park
Michał Pleskowicz
Michał Rzewuski
Morten Arborg
Mulun Yin (阴目仑)
Patrick Ponce
Philipp Weyer
Rami Sbahi
Sebastian Weyer
Seung Hyuk Nahm (남승혁)
Staš Zupanc
Yi-Fan Wu (吳亦凡)


----------



## bubbagrub (Jul 7, 2017)

efattah said:


> However in my mind even more amazing is the revelation that his world class megaminx times (circa 40 seconds) have happened even though he uses 4 LOOK last layer! 2 look OLL and 2 look PLL! Which is very few algorithms, compared to Yu Da Hyun who uses 1,000 algorithms for the last layer...!



Agreed -- that really surprised me.


----------



## mark49152 (Jul 7, 2017)

Who's the slowest in that group?


----------



## newtonbase (Jul 7, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> Who's the slowest in that group?


The least amazingly fast is Michał Rzewuski 7.69s average I think.


----------



## Malkom (Jul 7, 2017)

Lid said:


> Yeah, Juan now knows full Megaminx OLL+PLL = 410


I don't think he knows the dot cases, great accomplishment anyway. Is he the only person that has ever accomplished this?


----------



## JanW (Jul 8, 2017)

Sweeeeet! Sub-18 Ao12!

Generated By csTimer on 2017-7-8
avg of 12: 17.84

Time List:
1. 16.95 U2 D' F D B2 R D L U' B2 R' F2 R D2 R B2 D2 L2 U2 L'
2. (13.76) L' D L2 R2 U' R2 D2 L2 F2 D2 U' B' U F' U' L' B' L' R2
3. 18.84 L' F2 U' R2 F' R B U' D' R' F' R2 U2 L2 B' L2 F' R2 L2
4. 19.86 U B2 L2 B R2 F' U2 F L2 R2 D2 F2 L' D L' B U L2
5. 18.56 R B F2 L2 R2 F' D2 R2 F' U2 R2 B2 U' R2 F U2 L' D R' F' U2
6. 15.87 R D' R' B' U L' B D' R D2 F2 L2 U2 F' L2 F' R2 F R2 L2
7. 18.23 F2 D' R' U2 L' F L2 D B U' F2 D' F2 R2 F2 L2 U2 L2 U' B2
8. 15.85 L2 D2 F D2 B' L2 U2 R2 F2 U2 F' R U' B D' L D2 B2 R2 B D
9. (20.27) F2 U2 F2 D R2 D2 F2 R2 D' B2 L2 F' U' L2 U2 L U' L' B F2 R2
10. 17.16 D2 F2 L' B2 U2 B2 R' B2 L' B2 R' D B2 U' B L2 R U2 B' D2 L'
11. 18.48 L2 F2 U R2 F' L' D F R' F2 U R2 B2 U2 R2 L2 U B2 L
12. 18.60 L' D F2 D2 U' R2 B2 F2 D L2 F2 U2 B L U' B2 F' U2 L D' U'

In the 13.76 solve I hit the keyboard to stop the timer, saw the timer continue and realized I missed any button and hit again. Could have been very close to 12.xx otherwise. It was a very nice solve with fat anti-sune and PLL skip.


----------



## Logiqx (Jul 8, 2017)




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## Logiqx (Jul 8, 2017)

A quick summary of the morning and early afternoon... PBs in green, mistakes in red.

2x2 - "3.70" 8.35 12.50 6.75 5.09 5.33 = 6.81
I managed a 3.70s single on my first solve (PBL skip) but the timer switched off as it was stopped, due to a loose battery. I was given an additional attempt but the other solves were not close. Solves 2 + 3 destroyed the average.

Pyra - 8.16 14.43 11.95 9.01 *5.01* = 9.71
Three bad solves due to a failure of muscle memory during the last layer. The same case came up in solves 2, 3 and 4 and I didn't have a Pyraminx to re-learn it between solves. It got slightly better with each solve!

4x4 - *1:04.56*
A decent single and about as much as I could hope for with limited practice. The video is at the bottom of this message.

Skewb - *7.16* 11.45 10.98 14.45 19.04 = *12.29*
Unfavourable last layer cases for solves 2, 3, 4, 5. Two really bad solves at the end messed up the average but it was still a PB by 0.02 seconds

Watching and filming the 6x6x6 WR single + average was very cool!


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## Jason Green (Jul 8, 2017)

Thanks for the well wishes guys. My events have concluded but I will probably stay to the end. I had a PB OH average and that was it. 4x4 did not make the soft cut of 1:10 (I actually forgot there was one). Messed up edge pairing on second solve and quit at 1:09, did not like the idea of a 2:00 solve. Just did 3x3 and got right at my global average so was happy with that. The 24s solve I somehow turned the M layer on an F2L pair. Haha. Those are the ones I typically throw out in practice, and this is why, it doesn't count here either. 

The highlight was my last warm up solve before 3x3. New all time PB! I haven't even reconstructed my last one on paper. I'll see if I can do this one too.


Here's the image with scramble. I can reconstruct.


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## h2f (Jul 9, 2017)

@Jason Green I've seen your results in cubecomps - congrats of your all pbs!


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## phreaker (Jul 9, 2017)

Jlvs2run said:


> I'm having trouble with first practice of OH, in particular moving index finger to front for reversal.
> For example:
> Left ~ R U R' U' ~ having trouble with U
> Right ~ L' U' L U ~ having trouble with U'
> Especially, the index finger won't reach to the front, with middle finger touching in back. Those two fingers don't even spread that far apart. I can do the moves okay with only ring finger in back, but am not sure that's a good form. I'm using a 56mm MF3RS. Besides to keep practicing, should I look for a smaller cube, or should the range of motion increase with more practice?



I started OH using a set of 42mm Zhanchis. Then played with a 50mm Zhanchi, but really used the 42mms... Discovered, I could start using a 55.5mm Valk 3. Now I can use anything I want to, and in fact, will flick around a Wuque OH. I've considered really trying to solve a 4x4 OH for fun.

Your hand just gets better at it... take it slow... give it more practice. Also realize OH is probably the most hardware intensive event you can get into... You'll want to make sure the cube you use is really one you like for one handed. I use different OH and 2H mains. (Gans AIR UM for 2H, and a GTS 2 that I magnetized and put Valk springs in. It is full cutting, and the tension is acceptable. I couldn't set it up right with normal springs, they aren't long enough.)


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## SenorJuan (Jul 9, 2017)

Quote:"I've considered really trying to solve a 4x4 OH for fun."
I've done quite a number of 444 OH solves, it's not that hard, I found my cube (Weisu) was not OH-friendly, particularly on the 3x3x3 stage, where I would hope to get some speed up, but catches /lockups spoiled it.
I've done a few sub-3m's, for what it's worth, but I'm rubbish at the puzzle, maybe I should do it more than once every 3 months...and buy a newer puzzle, too.
Cantin and Park have some Youtube vids of sub-60s OH solves, worth a look, plenty of table abuse, I can proudly say I used no table in my solves.


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## newtonbase (Jul 9, 2017)

SenorJuan said:


> Quote:"I've considered really trying to solve a 4x4 OH for fun."
> I've done quite a number of 444 OH solves, it's not that hard, I found my cube (Weisu) was not OH-friendly, particularly on the 3x3x3 stage, where I would hope to get some speed up, but catches /lockups spoiled it.
> I've done a few sub-3m's, for what it's worth, but I'm rubbish at the puzzle, maybe I should do it more than once every 3 months...and buy a newer puzzle, too.
> Cantin and Park have some Youtube vids of sub-60s OH solves, worth a look, plenty of table abuse, I can proudly say I used no table in my solves.



Sub 3 min with no table abuse is impressive. 
Are you going to the UKs this year. They're in Stevenage again.


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## mark49152 (Jul 9, 2017)

Congrats to all the oldies on comp PBs these weekend and hope you all had fun.

Wow - London was a fast comp. Gotta feel for the guy who got sub-10 average and didn't even get top 16 to make the final!


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## Logiqx (Jul 9, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> Wow - London was a fast comp. Gotta feel for the guy who got sub-10 average and didn't even get top 16 to make the final!



My times were shocking today (18.46 3x3 average, 34.77 OH average) but I enjoyed watching the best competing. Apparently the 3x3 final was a WR podium - i.e. fastest 3 in a comp. The number of 6 second solves we saw today was ridiculous!

Feliks came good with 4 new WRs (6x6 and 7x7) and he just missed out on the 5x5 average by 0.09s.

I have a lot of video footage to sort through but probably that will probably be after Paris.

Great to catch up with everyone as always. Nice to meet a new member of the club - Nico!


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## Shaky Hands (Jul 10, 2017)

Logiqx said:


> Great to catch up with everyone as always. Nice to meet a new member of the club - Nico!



@Nervous Nico was great to see you again and hope to see you again at a comp soon.


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## Jlvs2run (Jul 10, 2017)

Thank you Phreaker, Johnny and Muchacho, for your comments about one handed solving.
The one hand drills are such a big challenge for my fingers, that learning these are my primary goal.

The biggest obstruction is my pinkies being droopy on the ends, repeatedly slipping off R' or L,
and the layers not moving. I'm practicing the exercises from this video, and hoping to improve them.
I've ordered magnets for the MF3RS, and a 42mm Qiyi Mofange for practice.
Best times so far, 20s one hand for R U R' U' or L' U' L U x6. Any other ideas? Best regards.


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## phreaker (Jul 10, 2017)

Jlvs2run said:


> Thank you Phreaker, Johnny and Muchacho, for your comments about one handed solving.
> The one hand drills are such a big challenge for my fingers, that learning these are my primary goal.
> 
> The biggest obstruction is my pinkies being droopy on the ends, repeatedly slipping off R' or L,
> ...



Pay attention to where you hold the cube relative to your hand. Adjusting how close to your thumb, or far away, will make things easier and harder. If you have problems with R', it may be easier to push the cube back in your hand a bit to make the pinky not have to reach as far. Exactly how to you hold the cube and where relative to your hand makes a big difference. That's one of the big adjustments I went through from 42mm -> 55.5mm.


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## pglewis (Jul 10, 2017)

Got another sub 20 single a few days back, 2-look LL with a J-perm if I remember correctly. I'm feeling close to the brink of another lookahead break-through as far as being able to harness it more consistently. 

Blind: good progress, both improving memo speed and dropping my success rate. Mostly failures ~7 mins at the moment but that's fine, I already know I can do it consistently given 10-15 mins. Best is now 6:48 and a near-miss 5:48 off by a twisted corner. Also took another shot at doing two without pushing speed and went 1/2 for a second time, so I might start thinking ahead to trying three. I think I just stupidly missed an entire edge cycle with the final 3 edges on the 2nd cube this time.


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## Logiqx (Jul 10, 2017)

Nice average...


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## muchacho (Jul 10, 2017)

I've done some solves after seeing (part of) this video:





I expected to be only a bit slower than 2x that time, but no, best Ao50 was around 5.5, Mo100 6.032 (Ao12 4.437, Ao5 3.614).

edit: I've also done some 2H LSE solves, Mo100 improved to 4.385 (from 4.499).


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## Mike Hughey (Jul 10, 2017)

Jason Green said:


> Thanks for the well wishes guys. My events have concluded but I will probably stay to the end.



Nice results and congrats on the OH PB!

I'm glad to find out I wasn't the only over-40 competitor there. I have to admit I was feeling really old compared to most of the competitors this weekend at US Nats. It seemed even more youth-skewed than usual.

Are there any other people from this thread that were there?


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## NewbieCuber (Jul 10, 2017)

Progress Report: 5 weeks since my first solve and I'm changing from the beginners method of first layer/seconds layer to F2L pair up and insert. My avg time with the old method was about 1:20 with the occasional sub 1 minute time as an anomaly. My times have moved back up into the 1:50 range but I can already see my pattern recognition getting faster and faster. It's odd that even though the bulk of the memorization is in the OLL and PLL steps I can see how a lot of time can be made up by improving the cross building and F2L steps. So I'm also practicing solving the cross in my mind before I make any moves.

Also, as an over 50 cuber I found that I was getting frustrated when I couldn't remember an algorithm which I was practicing the day before. But sure enough, with practice and many many solves they started coming back. It seems to take me a couple of days to internalize a new alg. But my memorization is improving as is my pattern recognition.


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## SenorJuan (Jul 10, 2017)

"Are you going to the UKs this year. They're in Stevenage again."
Hi Mark, a return to the quaint historic market town of St Evenage, eh...guess I can't just turn up to watch and say hello. Going to have to buy some new stickers and do some proper practice, then. so a provisional "see you there" to everyone.


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## mark49152 (Jul 10, 2017)

Mike Hughey said:


> I'm glad to find out I wasn't the only over-40 competitor there. I have to admit I was feeling really old compared to most of the competitors this weekend at US Nats. It seemed even more youth-skewed than usual.


Nice to see you here, Mike. I don't see you registered for Worlds, which is a pity. There are over-40s from all over the world on this thread, and many of us are into blind and well aware of your achievements. It would have been great to meet you at Worlds!


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## Mike Hughey (Jul 10, 2017)

I'm sorry about not attending Worlds - we simply couldn't afford the trip. US Nationals was easy (and cheap!) to do because it was so close to us.

I know there are still plenty of older cubers in other countries competing. But it does seem like the number of older cubers has really been declining in the US over the past few years, despite a rather phenomenal increase in overall competitors in the US.


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## Jlvs2run (Jul 10, 2017)

NewbieCuber said:


> as an over 50 cuber I found that I was getting frustrated when I couldn't remember an algorithm



That's why I only use 3 of them. 



muchacho said:


> I expected to be only a bit slower than 2x that time, but no, best Ao50 was around 5.5, Mo100 6.032 (Ao12 4.437, Ao5 3.614).
> I've also done some 2H LSE solves, Mo100 improved to 4.385 (from 4.499).



You're within 38 percent for OH, which is quite impressive. Do you practice it more?


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## mark49152 (Jul 10, 2017)

@Mike Hughey : Of course, this Worlds is likely a one-off for me as I would not get permission to travel intercontinental for something like that. At least not unless it was disguised as a family holiday, and it's hard to ask for four days' leave from family holiday duties .

I have only been cubing since 2012 so can't comment on number of older cubers before that, nor in the US specifically, but since I started there's always been a healthy membership and discussion on this thread and that's one of the things that has kept me interested. Without it, I might have felt alienated based on age and not got into competing. Us UK oldies regularly meet at comps and I'm looking forward to meeting others from the rest of the world.

I'm especially pleased to have been put into a staff group with Chris Hardwick as I'm looking forward to meeting him and it will be easier to find him now .


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## muchacho (Jul 10, 2017)

Jlvs2run said:


> You're within 38 percent for OH, which is quite impressive. Do you practice it more?


I very rarely practice 2H LSE, and almost never OH LSE (but I've probably done almost 5 times more 2H than OH solves), don't know what percentage would be good.


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## newtonbase (Jul 10, 2017)

SenorJuan said:


> "Are you going to the UKs this year. They're in Stevenage again."
> Hi Mark, a return to the quaint historic market town of St Evenage, eh...guess I can't just turn up to watch and say hello. Going to have to buy some new stickers and do some proper practice, then. so a provisional "see you there" to everyone.


Excellent. It will be good to see you. 


mark49152 said:


> I have only been cubing since 2012 so can't comment on number of older cubers before that, nor in the US specifically, but since I started there's always been a healthy membership and discussion on this thread and that's one of the things that has kept me interested. Without it, I might have felt alienated based on age and not got into competing. Us UK oldies regularly meet at comps and I'm looking forward to meeting others from the rest of the world.


I was the only person older than Adam at my first comp and didn't really feel part of it but then came UKs 2015 where we all got together which was a very different experience. It definitely helps having people your own age there.


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## Selkie (Jul 10, 2017)

@Jason Green - Congratulations on your results 

@Shaky Hands , @Logiqx - Great seeing you both at London Open

@Logiqx - There seems to be a strange old man scrambling 5x5 in the top left in your video of Felix 5x5 average  Great coverage of a range of his solves and cannot wait to see the 3x3 finals again tat you filmed. What an awesome final to watch live that was!

@Mike Hughey - Wow, Mike, really great to see you back competing. You were such a great influence on me 6-7 years ago on this forum when I was working towards sub-20 and you were running the race thread. There did not seem to be many older solvers then here or in comp. Very lucky to have an area for all us older guys now. Sorry to hear there were not so many older competitors at US Nats, we are quite lucky with the number of regular older competitors here in the UK.

@Nervous Nico - Good to meet you in London too 

-----

As for my own results at London Open, very disappointed generally, especially with cubic puzzle results where just the 3x3 non lucky PB was good. Grabbed some PBs in Clock and Pyra though.

But for me it was the social aspect of London Open that made the weekend for me. It was awesome to spend time with cubers old and new and to get the opportunity to chat with some of the worlds best cubers. I have to say the Weyers are a great laugh an spent quite a bit of time with them outside vaping. Got to chat at length to Feliks on a few occasions and @Shaky Hands and I enjoyed a nice beer and solves with Matts Valk. All fantastic stuff that totally eclipses my bad results.

Wish you all a fantastic worlds, go break some PBs and have fun 

My 12.92 Non Lucky Single at London Open 2017:-


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## megagoune (Jul 10, 2017)

Selkie said:


> @Jason Green - Congratulations on your results
> 
> @Shaky Hands , @Logiqx - Great seeing you both at London Open
> 
> ...



Did your cube just fall off the table at the end?


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## chtiger (Jul 10, 2017)

Mike Hughey said:


> Are there any other people from this thread that were there?


She doesn't post in this thread, but I know she -https://www.speedsolving.com/forum/threads/greetings-from-austell-ga.65203/- went. So, maybe 3 people out of about 800.

When I went to US Nats in Hilton Head, I didn't see anybody else over college age competing (but there may have been), and it was my first comp, so I felt really out of place. I wasn't planning on doing another comp, but I did so bad I wanted to try again, and got hooked at some point.


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## Selkie (Jul 10, 2017)

@megagoune - haha it did just stay on the table. The average cut for square 1 was 30 seconds. My first solve was a 29.x but landed in my lap so was a +2 :confused:


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## newtonbase (Jul 10, 2017)

Selkie said:


> @megagoune - haha it did just stay on the table. The average cut for square 1 was 30 seconds. My first solve was a 29.x but landed in my lap so was a +2 :confused:


I really need to brush up on the rules before Sunday.


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## MoyuDayanLover3 (Jul 10, 2017)

MarcelP said:


> LOL, yes I know. And still I am proud of it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


And now you're sub-20.


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## NewbieCuber (Jul 11, 2017)

NewbieCuber said:


> Progress Report: 5 weeks since my first solve and I'm changing from the beginners method of first layer/seconds layer to F2L pair up and insert. My avg time with the old method was about 1:20 with the occasional sub 1 minute time as an anomaly. My times have moved back up into the 1:50 range but I can already see my pattern recognition getting faster and faster.



Ooh! I've already come back to a 1:22 Average of 5. I really thought learning F2L basics would take longer than that. But the pattern recognition is really coming together. I've also hit 250 timed solves on my phone app. This doesn't take into consideration probably twice as many casual solves. Getting there, I'm getting there.


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## JanW (Jul 11, 2017)

NewbieCuber said:


> Ooh! I've already come back to a 1:22 Average of 5. I really thought learning F2L basics would take longer than that. But the pattern recognition is really coming together. I've also hit 250 timed solves on my phone app. This doesn't take into consideration probably twice as many casual solves. Getting there, I'm getting there.


Yup, F2L basics is really quite simple. You will notice that it improves really fast for quite a while. You should be way ahead of your old times soon! 

Today I got new pb Ao5 with all counting solves sub-17. Also improved Ao50 and Ao100. One of my big goals for 2017 was to get running Ao1000 down to sub-20. Currently at 20.37 and slowly but steadily going down. I'll get there, hopefully in the next 500-1000 solves.


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## h2f (Jul 11, 2017)

I'm close to sub17 globally now. Sub17 ao50 comes more often. In ao100 I'm on the edge. Last year I was thinking I never reach that point in my cubing skill. Practicing 4x4 (and buying 2 Wuques) helped a lot.


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## motherofsix (Jul 11, 2017)

chtiger said:


> She doesn't post in this thread, but I know she -https://www.speedsolving.com/forum/threads/greetings-from-austell-ga.65203/- went. So, maybe 3 people out of about 800.
> 
> When I went to US Nats in Hilton Head, I didn't see anybody else over college age competing (but there may have been), and it was my first comp, so I felt really out of place. I wasn't planning on doing another comp, but I did so bad I wanted to try again, and got hooked at some point.



I am going to start watching this thread and posting on it. I had a great time at Nats. Some of the best people I met were older cubers who were so supportive. Almost got my blind mean; I had three successes, but the last one went over the 6:00 time limit. Bought a new 4x4 and am going to start working on 4 blind.


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## motherofsix (Jul 11, 2017)

I met so many nice older cubers at Nats, so I'm going to try to get involved with posting here to meet more. I'm 49 years old and have competed in 12 different events at comps so far. I competed in 4 events at Nats (3x3, pyra, skewb, blind) and had fun. Hope I can do more next year.


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## newtonbase (Jul 11, 2017)

motherofsix said:


> I am going to start watching this thread and posting on it. I had a great time at Nats. Some of the best people I met were older cubers who were so supportive. Almost got my blind mean; I had three successes, but the last one went over the 6:00 time limit. Bought a new 4x4 and am going to start working on 4 blind.


Hello. Looks like we are at a similar level for most events. I plan to learn 4BLD too after the World Championships. 
If your username is accurate I don't know how you find time to practice.


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## motherofsix (Jul 11, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> Hello. Looks like we are at a similar level for most events. I plan to learn 4BLD too after the World Championships.
> If your username is accurate I don't know how you find time to practice.


My username is accurate. I homeschool my 6 children - ages 18, 15, 13, 11, 10, 10. It is a mystery.


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## newtonbase (Jul 11, 2017)

motherofsix said:


> My username is accurate. I homeschool my 6 children - ages 18, 15, 13, 11, 10, 10. It is a mystery.


I'm impressed. There was a lady on here a while back who would practice OH while nursing. 
Your children's ages would have been close to a Fibonacci sequence when they were little. Am I right in thinking some of them are cubers? I recognise the surname.


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## motherofsix (Jul 11, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> I'm impressed. There was a lady on here a while back who would practice OH while nursing.
> Your children's ages would have been close to a Fibonacci sequence when they were little. Am I right in thinking some of them are cubers? I recognise the surname.


My oldest holds the NAR for feet mean and just podiumed at Nats in FMC and 5 blind. My youngest has been doing 2x2 and just started 3x3 and has a 58 average. My husband also cubes.


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## pglewis (Jul 11, 2017)

NewbieCuber said:


> Ooh! I've already come back to a 1:22 Average of 5. I really thought learning F2L basics would take longer than that. But the pattern recognition is really coming together. I've also hit 250 timed solves on my phone app. This doesn't take into consideration probably twice as many casual solves. Getting there, I'm getting there.



It starts to snowball too, especially as you get below a minute. It seems a bit unfair but the faster you can solve, the more practice you get during your allotted time. 

For algs I'd focus on OCLL for 2-look OLL, if you don't have those down yet: https://www.speedsolving.com/wiki/index.php/OCLL There's only 7, recognition is relatively easy, and you'll be using them a lot. Keep a cheat-sheet handy if you want, they'll get into muscle memory fairly quickly. I still 2-look OLL more than half the time at just a smidge under 30 seconds now. 

It's probably time to start browsing for a competition nearby you. Cut-off for 3x3 is normally a very generous 10 minutes in order to accommodate practically anyone who can solve; you have plenty of cushion there. I'm a big cheerleader for getting more of the elderly generation to log official times.


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## h2f (Jul 11, 2017)

motherofsix said:


> My oldest holds the NAR for feet mean and just podiumed at Nats in FMC and 5 blind. My youngest has been doing 2x2 and just started 3x3 and has a 58 average. My husband also cubes.



Awsome!


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## oneshot (Jul 11, 2017)

pglewis said:


> It seems a bit unfair but the faster you can solve, the more practice you get during your allotted time.


This is part of my problem. 6 minutes/blind solve, I can only do one or two solves before one of my kids comes asking me for something.


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## pglewis (Jul 11, 2017)

Got a successful 2/2, slow and careful style. I haven't involved any method of loci yet, just ad-hoc stories. I might be able to go as far as three this way but that may be pushing it at the moment. 

Made a 3bld attempt around 4:40 yesterday. Catastrophic failure, mind you, but it felt "good" from a memo standpoint. The way things were twisted it definitely looked like setup/unsetup or other execution flub where execution has normally been reasonably solid. That's definitely pushing it right now, most attempts have been somewhere in the 6-9 min range and fastest success is a high 6. Solid progress for me, this is all fairly well ahead of where I expected. Just making a legit attempt under 5 mins feels like a huge victory.


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## oneshot (Jul 11, 2017)

pglewis said:


> Got a successful 2/2, slow and careful style. I haven't involved any method of loci yet, just ad-hoc stories. I might be able to go as far as three this way but that may be pushing it at the moment.
> 
> Made a 3bld attempt around 4:40 yesterday. Catastrophic failure, mind you, but it felt "good" from a memo standpoint. The way things were twisted it definitely looked like setup/unsetup or other execution flub where execution has normally been reasonably solid. That's definitely pushing it right now, most attempts have been somewhere in the 6-9 min range and fastest success is a high 6. Solid progress for me, this is all fairly well ahead of where I expected. Just making a legit attempt under 5 mins feels like a huge victory.


I'm around the same times, 6:30 or so. Maybe a friendly race to sub-5:30 or so?

Brian


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## Jason Green (Jul 12, 2017)

Mike Hughey said:


> Nice results and congrats on the OH PB!
> 
> I'm glad to find out I wasn't the only over-40 competitor there. I have to admit I was feeling really old compared to most of the competitors this weekend at US Nats. It seemed even more youth-skewed than usual.
> 
> Are there any other people from this thread that were there?


I don't know of any others, except for @motherofsix now.  I don't think I got to meet you, wish I could have. And thanks!



motherofsix said:


> I am going to start watching this thread and posting on it. I had a great time at Nats. Some of the best people I met were older cubers who were so supportive. Almost got my blind mean; I had three successes, but the last one went over the 6:00 time limit. Bought a new 4x4 and am going to start working on 4 blind.


It was great to meet you, glad to have you join the thread here. It's definitely been a huge motivation for me!


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## pglewis (Jul 12, 2017)

oneshot said:


> I'm around the same times, 6:30 or so. Maybe a friendly race to sub-5:30 or so?
> 
> Brian



Sure! My first official 3bld is two months away and that's a good target for me to be at with much better consistency than right now. I'll be happy with any success the first time out-- 8 mins is acceptable-- but with cushion for comp nerves and concentration I'd really like to be competent ~5:30 by then at worst.


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## motherofsix (Jul 12, 2017)

Jason Green said:


> I don't know of any others, except for @motherofsix now.  I don't think I got to meet you, wish I could have. And thanks!
> 
> 
> It was great to meet you, glad to have you join the thread here. It's definitely been a huge motivation for me!



It was great to meet you too. I often feel weird at competitions, since I'm "just" someone's mother, so it was inspiring to meet other people my age.



Mike Hughey said:


> Nice results and congrats on the OH PB!
> 
> I'm glad to find out I wasn't the only over-40 competitor there. I have to admit I was feeling really old compared to most of the competitors this weekend at US Nats. It seemed even more youth-skewed than usual.
> 
> Are there any other people from this thread that were there?


Mike, I know we didn't officially meet, but I judged your first OH solve on the blue stage. You apologized for how slow you were going to be.


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## Logiqx (Jul 12, 2017)

Mats VS Mike 

Thanks to @Nervous Nico


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## Logiqx (Jul 12, 2017)

I updated the over-40s rankings again yesterday.

Congratulations @Jason Green on the sub-17 average!


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## muchacho (Jul 12, 2017)

26.483 OH Ao5, in bad quality, I need a new SD card, it usually stops if I try recording at 720p, and even if it didn't stop it only has capacity for 6 minutes.


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## newtonbase (Jul 12, 2017)

oneshot said:


> This is part of my problem. 6 minutes/blind solve, I can only do one or two solves before one of my kids comes asking me for something.


I'm with you
_Daaaady I need a drink! 
Daaaady L* is biting me! 
Daaaady L* is on the window ledge and he's naked _
Etc


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## Mike Hughey (Jul 12, 2017)

motherofsix said:


> Mike, I know we didn't officially meet, but I judged your first OH solve on the blue stage. You apologized for how slow you were going to be.


When I saw your profile I was sure I had talked to you somewhere. And of course I met your son at Indiana 2 years ago, where he helped us out a lot on staff. Glad to have "met" you, even if I didn't realize it at the time!

...
And as for the BLD solving with kids issue, that's why I took to doing so much of my BLD solving after midnight. Except now the kids are old enough that they often stay up later than me.


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## Schmidt (Jul 12, 2017)

Didn't you put up a video of you solving bld while your whole family would make as much noice as possible so you could handle a little noise at a comp, Mike HugHey?


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## Schmidt (Jul 12, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> I'm impressed. There was a lady on here a while back who would practice OH while nursing.
> Your children's ages would have been close to a Fibonacci sequence when they were little. Am I right in thinking some of them are cubers? I recognise the surname.


Might be SneaklyFox, a Canadian mother of 5


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## newtonbase (Jul 12, 2017)

Schmidt said:


> Might be SneaklyFox, a Canadian mother of 5


Yes. That was her.


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## Mike Hughey (Jul 12, 2017)

Schmidt said:


> Didn't you put up a video of you solving bld while your whole family would make as much noice as possible so you could handle a little noise at a comp, Mike HugHey?


 I didn't remember actually putting up a video of that, but certainly I did use that for practice sometimes, yes, especially for 3x3x3 BLD. But when I wanted to do a serious big BLD solve, like a 6x6x6 or 7x7x7 or big multi, I would always do them late at night after the girls were in bed.

(HugHey) - thanks for that!


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## NewbieCuber (Jul 12, 2017)

pglewis said:


> It starts to snowball too, especially as you get below a minute. It seems a bit unfair but the faster you can solve, the more practice you get during your allotted time.
> 
> For algs I'd focus on OCLL for 2-look OLL, if you don't have those down yet: https://www.speedsolving.com/wiki/index.php/OCLL There's only 7, recognition is relatively easy, and you'll be using them a lot. Keep a cheat-sheet handy if you want, they'll get into muscle memory fairly quickly. I still 2-look OLL more than half the time at just a smidge under 30 seconds now.
> 
> It's probably time to start browsing for a competition nearby you. Cut-off for 3x3 is normally a very generous 10 minutes in order to accommodate practically anyone who can solve; you have plenty of cushion there. I'm a big cheerleader for getting more of the elderly generation to log official times.



Those algs are exactly what I'm working on. I don't have all of them memorized yet but 4 or 5 of them are pretty solid.

"Elderly"!?  Why you youngster. In my day we used actual Rubick's Cubes and we lubricated them with sand. :confused: And we only solved in the snow (or something like that)  

I'd like to go to a comp. But I'd want to get below 1 minute consistently (which may not be all that far away).


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## newtonbase (Jul 12, 2017)

NewbieCuber said:


> I'd like to go to a comp. But I'd want to get below 1 minute consistently (which may not be all that far away).


Just go. Guaranteed PB in your first comp and if it's slow then it's an easy target next time.


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## pglewis (Jul 12, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> Just go. Guaranteed PB in your first comp and if it's slow then it's an easy target next time.



This. Unless you just have no interest in it whatsoever; it's all about getting what you want to get out of it. Otherwise, whatever arbitrary time you'd _like_ to be below before going will be a moving target. What's 1:20 or :58 matter for your first comp if you'll be at :30 next year?


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## Jason Green (Jul 13, 2017)

Logiqx said:


> I updated the over-40s rankings again yesterday.
> 
> Congratulations @Jason Green on the sub-17 average!


Thank you, thanks again for the awesome work on the list!


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## mark49152 (Jul 13, 2017)

Logiqx said:


> I updated the over-40s rankings again yesterday.


Woohoo! Fastest elderly 4BLDer 

Any chance of adding unofficial big BLD means as well?


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## muchacho (Jul 13, 2017)

3x3 Ao5 PB, but not by much, from 15.321 to 15.284 



Spoiler



48153 13-jul-2017 11:39:44 00:15.113 F2 L2 U' R2 F2 R2 D L2 U2 B2 F2 L U2 B' L B' L2 U' B2 R' F'
48152 13-jul-2017 11:39:11 00:15.614 U' R2 L2 D L2 U' R2 U' F2 R2 U' B L B' L' B' D' B2 R D' F2
48151 13-jul-2017 11:38:33 00:19.959 D U' R2 U F2 R2 D B2 U R2 U' L F D U' L D2 F' U B R' F'
48150 13-jul-2017 11:37:57 00:15.126 D' U2 B2 U' R2 L2 U2 F2 R2 B2 U2 R' D' L2 B R2 U' F' L' F' U
48149 13-jul-2017 11:37:24 00:14.544 R2 D' L2 U' B2 D L2 U2 R2 L2 U B' R' L2 F2 R2 L' U R' L D2


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## h2f (Jul 13, 2017)

@mark49152 got 14/14 in mbld! Awsome Mark!


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## Selkie (Jul 13, 2017)

Yeah huge congratulations @mark49152 .

I have to confess I have been working from home today and had the live stream on, not much work done though I have seen some great cubing, not least Felik's 2:06.x 7x7 WR single, that is 8 seconds faster than the WR he set last weekend. 8 seconds!! He has a new magnetic 7x7 this week


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## pglewis (Jul 13, 2017)

h2f said:


> @mark49152 got 14/14 in mbld! Awsome Mark!



We all knew it was coming! Congrats Mark, and what a weekend to do it.


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## newtonbase (Jul 13, 2017)

He's provisionally 3rd in the UK with that result but there's 2 rounds lto go and 3 close rivals at the comp.


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## mark49152 (Jul 13, 2017)

Thanks guys. I'm very pleased with my MBLD result, of course. Scrambles were pretty good and all went to plan on the day. My time keeping was good, I even had time for an extra review and didn't have to rush execution, so I'm ready for more cubes .

4BLD was not so good. The scrambles were good and so was my memo, but I fouled up the first two with silly execution errors. Both were 5.2x and the first off by only two centres. Took it carefully on the third for a 7.09 success. It's nice to have a result on the board but that's slow for me these days.

This competition is awesome! It's fantastic seeing all the best in the world here.


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## chtiger (Jul 13, 2017)

muchacho said:


> 3x3 Ao5 PB, but not by much, from 15.321 to 15.284
> 
> 
> 
> ...


you need to get to another comp



mark49152 said:


> Woohoo! Fastest elderly 4BLDer


and now MBLD too. Excellent. Good luck tomorrow.


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## newtonbase (Jul 13, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> This competition is awesome! It's fantastic seeing all the best in the world here.


I'm very jealous. A day isn't going to be enough.


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## oneshot (Jul 14, 2017)

Logiqx said:


> I updated the over-40s rankings again...@Jason Green on the sub-17 average!


Where can I find this?


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## rjpcal (Jul 14, 2017)

Logiqx said:


> I updated the over-40s rankings again yesterday.
> 
> Congratulations @Jason Green on the sub-17 average!



Any chance of adding me to the over-40s rankings?

WCA: https://www.worldcubeassociation.org/persons/2016PETE06
Birth year: 1974

I learned the Ideal Solution as a kid in the 80s (averaged 1:30-2:00 with that method), then last year picked up CFOP and started attending competitions when my then-10yo-son took up an interest in speedcubing.

Thanks!


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## muchacho (Jul 14, 2017)

chtiger said:


> you need to get to another comp


There is no one near enough for now.



oneshot said:


> Where can I find this?


https://github.com/Logiqx/wca-ipy/blob/master/README.md

Oh, Ron recently beat the OH single, didn't know that.


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## h2f (Jul 14, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> Thanks guys. I'm very pleased with my MBLD result, of course. Scrambles were pretty good and all went to plan on the day. My time keeping was good, I even had time for an extra review and didn't have to rush execution, so I'm ready for more cubes .
> 
> 4BLD was not so good. The scrambles were good and so was my memo, but I fouled up the first two with silly execution errors. Both were 5.2x and the first off by only two centres. Took it carefully on the third for a 7.09 success. It's nice to have a result on the board but that's slow for me these days.
> 
> This competition is awesome! It's fantastic seeing all the best in the world here.



Thanks for info. Guys from Poland taking part in mbld are my friends. Wojtek Szatanowski is a very well known cuber with over 100 comps and a member of board of Polish Speedcubing Association. I've heard the venue for mbld attempt was pretty bad. Maskow wrote on FB that people were walking around and he had problem to be fully focused.


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## mark49152 (Jul 14, 2017)

h2f said:


> I've heard the venue for mbld attempt was pretty bad. Maskow wrote on FB that people were walking around and he had problem to be fully focused.


There were almost 100 competitors on rows of small tables in 3 large rooms, but there was enough space between, IMO.

There were organisation problems with slow submission and not enough scramblers, meaning it started 50 minutes late, and at lunchtime when people were getting hungry too. Let's see if they can fix the issues today.


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## h2f (Jul 14, 2017)

Ok. I know Maskow has a tendency to overrate problems with organization of the event.


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## mark49152 (Jul 14, 2017)

I think all competitors can expect the environment of a huge competition to be very different to smaller local competitions. That's inevitable and part of the challenge I guess.


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## Logiqx (Jul 14, 2017)

rjpcal said:


> Any chance of adding me to the over-40s rankings?
> 
> WCA: https://www.worldcubeassociation.org/persons/2016PETE06
> Birth year: 1974
> ...



Sure thing. I'll update it after worlds.

@mark49152 - I've been thinking a shared Google doc for home PBs might be a good idea.


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## Selkie (Jul 15, 2017)

@rjpcal - Another 80's solver, like myself. Welcome to the mature cubers mad house! 

Best of luck to all older cubers at Worlds today. Hope you get fantastic results 

There has been a lot of talk about practice strategy in this thread so I thought I would share with you my latest initiative. I have chatted a lot with Ron van Bruchem online and recently wanted insight into his own practice. Coincidentally if you want a bit of motivation in the age question, Ron's first comp after turning 50 his 3x3 went ... 10.65, 13.16, 10.15, ..... but unfortunately he got a couple of bad solves. Thats over 50 so there is hope for us yet!! I was also very lucky to have a beer with Mats Valk with @Shaky Hands in London last weekend and also discussed weak points with him. My weak points of course, not sure Mats has any! hehe.

So after talking with other cubers I have come up with a practice schedule which I thought others on plateaus might want to see and of course any feedback or suggestions are very much appreciated.

My weak points - It is important to understand your own weaknesses in order to concentrate on them. Simply doing averages of 100 over and over will not always help, especially when trying to get fast in your 40's. I have highlighted my worst weak points as:-

Cross - I rarely take advantage of easy X-Crosses
Cross - My transition from cross to first pair is poor
F2L - I still have some bad intuitive cases, especially for left back slot
LL - I need to try and avoid more dot case OLLs
PLL - My PLL recognition is slow
When you think I currently average globally about 15.25 Seconds, getting to sub 15 should be possible just working on one of these and I firmly believe sub 14 should be attainable with concentrated long term practice. I have come up with the following schedule for a practice session:-


Cross Training (25 Crosses) - This will change over time progressing through the following:-
Unsighted cross solving - Planning the complete cross which I always do but when it is s difficult case I do not always work out during inspection whether a D, D' or D2 is needed to align the centers. This will force me to start working on this
Sighted cross solving tracking a corner - The natural progression from the above where I track an F2L corner whilst forcing myself not to look at the cross pieces I am solving
Predicting the position of an F2L corner after the cross - Like above but doing the tracking during inspection
Predicting F2L corner whilst tracking its corresponding edge - By this stage I should know where my first pair is
[Note] Whilst doing all of the above I will save scrambles with a connected pair that is either from the cross side or an F2L connected pair to use later in X-Cross specific training

Slow Solves - About 25 exploratory slow solves. These are really slow as in 30-40 second solves for me. With emphasis on:-
Watching piece movement during cross to try and spot say easy F2L cases that might come up that aren't necessarily the ones I am tracking
Making a note of any bad F2L cases were I am rotating where I do not need to
Trying to influence better F2L cases
Trying to preserve connected F2L cases whilst solving others
Using partial edge control to influence better OLLs

Normal Solves - About 50 Normal solves trying to adopt as much of the above as possible but without reducing speed. This is about 75% max TPS
High TPS Solves - About 25 fast as possible solves holding onto lookahead as much as possible
PLL Drills - About 10 drills including all PLLs
Post training:-

Self Analysis - What went well / What went badly
Review better algorithms for the bad F2L cases I highlighted during the session
Study PLL 2 sided recognition https://sarah.cubing.net/3x3x3/pll-recognition-guide
Relearn one Winter Variation Case or one COLL case and drill it

I have been doing this for a couple of days and have already noticed some good improvement. I had 5 sub 14.5 averages of 12 yesterday and six 11.xy full step solves. I will keep you updated on progress.

I am also filming most of these for self analysis. Hoping for my first sub 14 ao12 soon and will post it if I get it on film.

Apologies for the mammoth post but I thought it might be useful collateral in the discussions about practice and especially targeted practice. Any comments most welcome fellow oldies


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## Nervous Nico (Jul 15, 2017)

Thank you Selkie,

great post! I like the details a lot and the addition of how many solves you'll do for each, TPS... 
Great plan. You have given yourself a lot to do. 
Nice to see someone brilliant striving to be even better.

A bit advanced for myself but at least it made me think about putting my own list together.
I average 20 seconds A0100, 19 on A012 with a PB of 13.xx
Being a premium member on Feliks' cubeskills.com he has sent me an excellent critic of 5 of my solves.
Lots to work on though! I have already dropped 3 seconds or so on my average in a few weeks.

This is the plan (shortened from 4 pages :

1. Work on the white cross. Plan the whole of it and then execute it from memory without looking at it and rotationless
using cstimer then looking at the optimal cross solution in tools. Practise a few minutes a day, great tips from 
Jperm video. 
2. My cross to F2L transition is apparently quite good however I mostly solve in the front right corner
and am very rough with my right hand (U/R). I should aim for 35 moves for the cross and all F2L.
I seem very inefficient and do far too many moves and rotations. I try and do it all intuitively,
turns out my intuition is a bit rubbish so will learn some (lookahead friendly) algs for the tough cases and look
where pieces move to understand the concept. I should be able to set up the next pair in 3/4 moves from any position.
Look at cubeskills.com F2L algs and learn the tricky one.
Then work at multiple angle sheet at sub 20.
3. I know 30/57 OLLs but my two look is effective enough so not the priority to learn more right now, saying this that one dot with 2 lines on either side comes up far too often for my liking!
4. Good last layer for a 20 seconds solver. I need to do U(') to set up the PLL instead of rotating.

The aim is to get half as good as Selkie in about 10 years time 

BTW Does anyone know how I can be added to the over 40s list/table please?
https://www.worldcubeassociation.org/persons/2017VIDO02
Date: 1976 Country: France

all the best to our fellow oldies in Paris indeed

Nervous Nico enjoying watching http://www.rubiksworldparis2017.com/en/home/ LIVE


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## Logiqx (Jul 15, 2017)

Yay. I didn't screw up!

http://m.cubecomps.com/competitions/2349/competitors/982

Pyraminx single is not a PB. CubeComps must update periodically and therefore missing London results.


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## Logiqx (Jul 15, 2017)

*Rubik's Cube*
*#* *Round* *T1* *T2* *T3* *T4* *T5* *Average*
First Round 16.39 15.65 18.77 15.69 16.87 = PB 16.32 avg

*2x2x2 Cube*
*#* *Round* *T1* *T2* *T3* *T4* *T5* *Average*
Combined First 5.79 6.36 5.12 7.34 6.45 = 6.20 avg

*Pyraminx*
*#* *Round* *T1* *T2* *T3* *T4* *T5* *Average*
Combined First 7.98 9.74 7.65 5.58 8.57 = PB 8.07 avg


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## pglewis (Jul 15, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> Took it carefully on the third for a 7.09 success. It's nice to have a result on the board but that's slow for me these days.



Exactly matches what I thought when I checked cube comps. "Oh, he won't be happy about that one... ah, probably had to be careful after the first two"



Logiqx said:


> Yay. I didn't screw up!



Nice jump on the average! Could be a friendly rivalry potentially brewing among you, @Lid, and @Jason Green.


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## Logiqx (Jul 15, 2017)

pglewis said:


> Nice jump on the average! Could be a friendly rivalry potentially brewing among you, @Lid, and @Jason Green.



Thanks. It's about my global average so it was nice to reproduce the times in comp.

All solves were basically slow turning and i turned slightly slower during LL algs to play safe. 

Edit: No videos as I wanted to reduce distractions


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## pglewis (Jul 15, 2017)

Selkie said:


> Apologies for the mammoth post but I thought it might be useful collateral in the discussions about practice and especially targeted practice.



Love it, Chris. I have a lot of the same stuff on my list but some great new ideas in there for me as well. 

CP recog will take me some time but I think it could eventually pay off to the tune of a second or even two in delays, for me. It's still an exercise relegated to slow solves but the hope is it'll start to come together just when I need it. One or two seconds didn't use to be a big deal, now it is. 

One other one I'd add to the list is LSLL scrambles/drills.


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## bubbagrub (Jul 15, 2017)

Well, none of the events went well for me today (2x2, 3x3, pyra) but for Joseph (my son) they went extremely well. I'm very proud of him -- he beat me in all three events and got a bunch of impressive PBs, including PB average in every event he took part in.

Earlier in the comp, I got a 32.00 PB average (with all 32s as my three results) for FMC, conveniently placing 32nd. I also got PB single and average for skewb, and did ok in feet. My results are here. It's been an amazing competition, and it's not over yet. Well, it is for me as a competitor, but I'm looking forward to some serious spectating tomorrow.


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## Logiqx (Jul 15, 2017)

bubbagrub said:


> Well, none of the events went well for me today (2x2, 3x3, pyra) but for Joseph (my son) they went extremely well. I'm very proud of him -- he beat me in all three events and got a bunch of impressive PBs, including PB average in every event he took part in.
> 
> Earlier in the comp, I got a 32.00 PB average (with all 32s as my three results) for FMC, conveniently placing 32nd. I also got PB single and average for skewb, and did ok in feet. My results are here. It's been an amazing competition, and it's not over yet. Well, it is for me as a competitor, but I'm looking forward to some serious spectating tomorrow.



Go Joseph!


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## Selkie (Jul 15, 2017)

@Logiqx Mike - Excellent results mate, nice to see you have done well on such a big stage 

@bubbagrub Well done Ben and Joseph. 32 FMC mean is great and ranks you 6th in UK mate


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## Selkie (Jul 15, 2017)

@Nervous Nico - I am flattered, thank you sir.

Yours too is a great post. Concentrated practice is a great way to boost improvement and you seem to have a good plan of action and I look forward to seeing you progress. Cross improvement I think is a big key and slower crosses will help tracking but great to hear your first pair is going well. I would always recommend learning F2L intuitively first since all algorithms assume the slot you are solving is the only empty slot where with intuitive you can use empty slots to your advantage. Once you are confident by all means replace bad intuitive cases with algs.

Also consider filming solves, it is sometimes difficult to be subjective after a good solve, take this 9.67:-






Without filming it I might be happy with the solve as I have no way of telling how it went, however by reviewing the solve:-

With a cross that easy with no correcting D moves at the end I should have planned first pair rather than the pause 
Poor lookahead disguised by higher TPS
Horrible pause at OLL
There is nothing like self critique to aid improvement. Best of luck


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## mark49152 (Jul 16, 2017)

Another quick update.

5BLD 18:45 success on the second attempt. I went a little slower after the first DNF. For the third I was forced to rush because I had only ~14 minutes of time left. I made it in 14:02 but sadly it was DNF. Memo was good and I think it was a simple execution error like undoing a setup wrong. 13th place as the slowest of 13 who got a success .

MBLD final attempt 12/16 in 60:00. The best thing about this was competing alongside the world's best. It was humbling and inspiring. My timekeeping was OK. Ran out of time on the last cube, forgot the corner memo on another cube, and the other two fails looked like execution errors.

3BLD 1:01.84. Another PB. First two attempts felt fast but were actually slow, as well as DNFs. I took the final attempt steady and guess what, it was fast (for me). I'll have to watch the video to find out what went on there. Nice to be in the next round though!

3x3 and 4x4. All my sighted solving sucked but I got one decent single in each event as a consolation. I didn't do 2x2 because I didn't want to embarrass myself 

Just 3BLD second round left for me tomorrow, and of course I'm looking forward to watching some exciting finals!


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## Selkie (Jul 16, 2017)

@mark49152 - A Great performance all round on the BLD events mate, I wouldn't give a second thought to the sighted solves to be honest. Best of luck in 3BLD again today.


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## JanW (Jul 16, 2017)

Very nice posts on deliberate practice @Selkie!

I'm now at a point where I feel I 'd need to start working on something new. After I broke sub-30, I learned PLL to get to sub-25, then I learned OLL and headed towards sub-20. Now I've completed the race to sub-20 and lately my running Ao100 has quite reliably showed 19.xx. I'm quite confident to say I've now reached that goal. So, what's the next thing to learn as I head towards sub-18 and beyond?

*Color neutrality? *I tried a bit of this, joined the race to sub-25 with yellow cross, but didn't finish it as my times were already around 22 seconds without practice. No motivation to complete a race that I already won. I suppose I could jump right back into the race to sub-20 with yellow cross and aim for white/yellow CN. Or is it better to go for full CN? The other crosses are significantly weaker. I'd need a lot of practice already to get those sub-25.

*Planning XCrosses? *I feel this could be very helpful. I'm thinking about doing timed solves of cross+1. First with unlimited inspection time, then gradually adding inspection time into the mix. The learning curve would be steep, but it would come with great rewards.

*Revisit ZZ? *It's been about a year since I switched from ZZ to CFOP. The main thing I noticed in that change was how easy the cross is compared to EOLine. Maybe if I spent a couple of months with ZZ, planning Xcrosses wouldn't seem so hard anymore? ZZ would also help me solidify the COLL cases I know. They don't come up often enough in CFOP. If I went ZZ, I'd also look into WV. I love the idea of ZZ with lots of WV.

*Roux?* Eh, probably not. I hate the M-slice. Though I'm intrigued by the concept of block building. Currently I suck at that and I feel getting better at it would certainly also help with Xcrosses. Maybe rather learn block building by working on FMC?

*Anything else?* I don't know. What would be a good next step after full PLL/OLL and breaking the sub-20 barrier? Ideas are welcome! 

I know there are still a lot of seconds to shave off just by improving what I already know. F2L can never get fast enough and my OLL/PLL recognition could improve a lot. But I'm the kind of person who needs something new every now and then. If I get stuck doing the same things too long, I get bored and eventually stop practicing. This is why I'm looking for something new to add to the mix.


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## JanW (Jul 16, 2017)

I tested timing an Ao12 of Cross+1 with unlimited inspection.

avg of 12: 6.38
5.84, 8.19, 5.40, 4.01, (3.25), 5.26, (12.57), 7.36, 4.11, 7.37, 6.10, 10.11

That's some massive variation! Basically, if I managed to plan the first F2L pair correctly, it was a sub-6, sometimes a lot faster. When I messed up, or planned only one piece and follow the other while solving cross, it was a lot slower. On some of the scrambles planning the first F2L pair during inspection seemed just about impossible. I think my cube visualization skills are still far from the level where I could consistently plan the first pair during inspection. I might do some more of this, would be interesting to see how it develops over a few hundred attempts.

Edit:

Next 12 solves a lot better.

avg of 12: 5.33
4.81, (11.31), 6.52, 5.23, (3.66), 5.27, 4.84, 5.39, 5.08, 4.80, 5.32, 5.98

Maybe this is something that can be learned!


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## mark49152 (Jul 16, 2017)

Selkie said:


> @mark49152 - A Great performance all round on the BLD events mate, I wouldn't give a second thought to the sighted solves to be honest. Best of luck in 3BLD again today.


Thanks Chris. 1:08 today, I'm happy enough. 

I also did the one thing I always feared I might - I forgot to pull down the blindfold and just closed my eyes instead . Instant DNF of the second solve. Next time I will make sure to practise more with a blindfold leading up to the event.


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## dboeren (Jul 16, 2017)

So I was out of cubing for a couple of years and just had to re-learn Roux.

Originally my average was about a minute. I just did an average of 5 of 47.9 seconds! Yeah, still slow and crappy, but it's progress for me  I fumbled the ending on one of those badly that cost me a second or two too.

Anyway, going to keep practicing. I've made a list of things to work on and algorithms to drill and soon I hope to be working on breaking the 40 second barrier.

Edit: 5 minutes later, I got a 40.06 single. OK, so admittedly there was a skip on the Permute Corner step, but I'll take it!


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## newtonbase (Jul 16, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> Thanks Chris. 1:08 today, I'm happy enough.
> 
> I also did the one thing I always feared I might - I forgot to pull down the blindfold and just closed my eyes instead . Instant DNF of the second solve. Next time I will make sure to practise more with a blindfold leading up to the event.


One of my biggest worries at the World's. Luckily I managed to DNF in other ways.


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## newtonbase (Jul 17, 2017)

Am finally home from WCs. Had a great time meeting all the Oldies again plus, for the first time, @moralsh, @Brest and a bloke called Erno something. 
Journey home started badly but I had some good company and did a successful blind solve in front of loads of strangers in the buffet car (full story in Blindfold Accomplishments). 
Hope everyone gets, or has got, home safely.


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## Logiqx (Jul 17, 2017)

rjpcal said:


> Any chance of adding me to the over-40s rankings?
> 
> WCA: https://www.worldcubeassociation.org/persons/2016PETE06
> Birth year: 1974
> ...



The results from WC2017 were published to the WCA website last night.

Oldie rankings have been updated - https://github.com/Logiqx/wca-ipy

There are a couple of new names on the list.


----------



## Selkie (Jul 17, 2017)

JanW said:


> That's some massive variation! Basically, if I managed to plan the first F2L pair correctly, it was a sub-6, sometimes a lot faster. When I messed up, or planned only one piece and follow the other while solving cross, it was a lot slower. On some of the scrambles planning the first F2L pair during inspection seemed just about impossible. I think my cube visualization skills are still far from the level where I could consistently plan the first pair during inspection. I might do some more of this, would be interesting to see how it develops over a few hundred attempts.



I believe planning first pair in its entirety is a hard task and one that will improve with a lot of practice. Phillip Weyer only solves on white cross and I believe he can plan cross + one slot nearly all the time. Give him a scramble and 15 seconds inspection and he will close his eyes and solve the cross and a slot. This is a skill that can be beneficial to those who solve on a single colour but obviously the colour neutral will find it easier picking an easier cross to do this with. The possibilities for x-crosses definitely increase with colour neutrality. I believe Feliks can find an X-Cross in one in 3-4 solves.

I think it is too late for me to go colour neutral and at 47 I don't think I will ever catch up with my times but pair tracking can have benefit. As for the arguement for colour neutrality, did anyone see how many solvers in the World Championship final last night solved scramble 1 on green or blue?! I think for younger solvers than me maybe a switch to colour neutrality may reap benefits.



Logiqx said:


> The results from WC2017 were published to the WCA website last night.
> 
> Oldie rankings have been updated - https://github.com/Logiqx/wca-ipy
> 
> There are a couple of new names on the list.



Not only some fast solves at Worlds mate but that was a lightning quick update too


----------



## Selkie (Jul 17, 2017)

Selkie said:


> ......
> 
> Study PLL 2 sided recognition https://sarah.cubing.net/3x3x3/pll-recognition-guide
> ...



I have just found your excellent guide @mark49152 which I will be using now. Great work mate


----------



## Logiqx (Jul 17, 2017)

Selkie said:


> I have just found your excellent guide @mark49152 which I will be using now. Great work mate



I also created something for PLL recognition a couple of months ago. It uses my existing framework for online algs and isn't bad as an interactive resource.

You can change the way the cases are listed (groups, grid, etc) and clicking on individual cases gives you a lot of additional info.

http://cubing.mikeg.me.uk/algs/2spll.html

Technically it is still WIP as I was still reviewing and tweaking my wording but life got too busy so I made it public.


----------



## Logiqx (Jul 17, 2017)

Logiqx said:


> I also created something for PLL recognition a couple of months ago. It uses my existing framework for online algs and isn't bad as an interactive resource.
> 
> You can change the way the cases are listed (groups, grid, etc) and clicking on individual cases gives you a lot of additional info.
> 
> ...



Oh yes... grid mode is quite nice as a self-test on a desktop / laptop as you can hover the mouse over the case to see it's name and you can click it for full details.

Cases which can be easily confused are typically in the same column.

http://cubing.mikeg.me.uk/algs/2spll.html#grid


----------



## mark49152 (Jul 17, 2017)

Selkie said:


> I have just found your excellent guide @mark49152 which I will be using now. Great work mate


Thanks Chris, I hope it's helpful. It hasn't been updated in a long time - I'll have a look when I get the chance and see if I can improve it based on a couple more years of experience .


----------



## Selkie (Jul 17, 2017)

@mark49152 , @Logiqx - Thanks Mark and Mike, excellent resources. I cannot believe I have not optimised stuff like 2 sided recognition before now. In my creep from sub 16 to sub 15 I could have been sub 14 by now with initiative such as this and some cross to first pair training. Better late than never


----------



## JanW (Jul 17, 2017)

About 2-sided recognition, I know the cases in theory, but haven't quite figured out how to best approach the subject in fast solves. In particular, if the 2 sides you see have no pairs or headlights, what is the quickest thoughts process to find out which case we have? What is the first thing your eyes would look for when you encounter a case like this? My approach is to immediately look at a 3rd side...


----------



## Selkie (Jul 17, 2017)

JanW said:


> About 2-sided recognition, I know the cases in theory, but haven't quite figured out how to best approach the subject in fast solves. In particular, if the 2 sides you see have no pairs or headlights, what is the quickest thoughts process to find out which case we have? What is the first thing your eyes would look for when you encounter a case like this? My approach is to immediately look at a 3rd side...



I think this falls into the bookends on Mike's (@Logiqx ) page http://cubing.mikeg.me.uk/algs/2spll.html in the last two sections or the no headlights, no blocks on Sarah's site https://sarah.cubing.net/3x3x3/pll-recognition-guide#section/adj-cp-e

These will be the hardest to learn to recognise quickly but can still be differentiated in various ways as shown on those pages. Like much in learning any new skills, once learned I will expect a rise in times until it is reinforced through repetition but I am eager to ensure I use it for all cases.


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## mark49152 (Jul 17, 2017)

JanW said:


> About 2-sided recognition, I know the cases in theory, but haven't quite figured out how to best approach the subject in fast solves. In particular, if the 2 sides you see have no pairs or headlights, what is the quickest thoughts process to find out which case we have? What is the first thing your eyes would look for when you encounter a case like this? My approach is to immediately look at a 3rd side...


That's exactly the approach I tried to take in my guide. Catalog the easy cases with blocks visible, and define the other colour patterns to look for when there are no or not enough blocks.

Generally the advantage of two-sided recognition is that you pause less, even if you do look at a third side. For example, I might immediately see the two sides facing me during the final move of an OLL and know I'm getting an R-perm. Then I have to AUF to execute the R-perm and after the AUF I can see a third side. Unless I've screwed up, that third side confirms I was right, but by this time I'm already set up for the alg and starting to execute it.

https://www.speedsolving.com/forum/threads/two-sided-pll-recognition-guide.41108/


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## Logiqx (Jul 17, 2017)

CP recognition also helps prior to executing an OLL algorithm.

If you recognise corner permutation prior to solving OLL you will know what subset of PLL you'll get. It makes PLL recognition quicker when you anticipate the CP and you can figure it out whilst executing the OLL itself.

I sometimes use it when I get a COLL case but opt for my standard OCLL to avoid a pause. Sometimes I'll figure out the CP before I reach the PLL.

I think advanced solvers do it very often.


----------



## NewbieCuber (Jul 17, 2017)

Another progress report:

We went camping this weekend and I spent several hours under the pine trees relaxing and solving. I've got 6 of the 7, 2 look OLL algorithms memorized now and I've forced myself to always use "pair up and insert" F2L. I probably solved the cube a hundred times or more over the weekend and just timed myself today. My move to F2l has slowed my times quite a bit but that's expected. As I start to see the shapes and develop better pattern recognition I'm sure my times will drop again. I'm currently back up in the 1 minute 20 to 1 minute 40 range. I'm sure I can get my times back down into the low 1 minute range or even sub 1 minute as my F2L gets faster.


----------



## Selkie (Jul 17, 2017)

Managed to get a PB 7x7 single on film. Think this is my first sub 5:10 and promising progress. Last year I did not qualify for 6x6 or 7x7 at UK Championship as you needed an official sub 4 min mean for 6x6 and sub 6 minute mean for 7x7. Been looking at comps this year and hopefully Guildford Open will have 6x6 and 7x7 to give me the chance to get below if the same qualification times are used this year. Hopefully I can get a sub 5 minute solve on film soon.

7x7 Single 5:03.87


----------



## pglewis (Jul 17, 2017)

Selkie said:


> I have just found your excellent guide @mark49152 which I will be using now. Great work mate



Also, someone posted a link to a simple, lightweight trainer in the related thread: http://mattsploration.com/cubing/2-sided-pll-recognition-trainer/

Browser-based so it should work anywhere.


----------



## pglewis (Jul 17, 2017)

Not much new to report here, though I did land an Ao5 under :25 this past week. :27 seems to be the new norm if I'm warmed up and having a good lookahead day, Ao50 still right at :30 but I expect that to be beaten next time I do one.

I'm taking about a week off from timing my blind solves. Too many repeated issues with flipped edges/twisted corners during memo. On the edges I think I'm getting distracted and looking at the wrong sticker due to my fingers playing twister; on corners I've started a stupid habit of memoing the sticker at R instead of A at the beginning because I look back there first to identify the piece . Should just be a matter of practice as usual so I'm giving specific attention to these problems for a week or so without much timer pressure.

I haven't attempted 3 for mbld yet but will probably start giving it a shot soon since I landed 2/2.


----------



## Logiqx (Jul 17, 2017)

A few memories from worlds...

 

3x3 - Official PB average 

 
The oldies: @newtonbase @Brest @Logiqx @Shaky Hands @moralsh @mark49152 @bubbagrub 

 
The oldies: @newtonbase @Brest @Logiqx @Shaky Hands @moralsh @mark49152 @bubbagrub 



The oldies + Ernő Rubik: @Brest @Logiqx @newtonbase +Ernő @Shaky Hands @moralsh @mark49152


----------



## newtonbase (Jul 17, 2017)

Logiqx said:


> A few memories from worlds...
> 
> View attachment 8209
> 
> ...


Great pics @Logiqx. 
Did you get any footage of Bill Wang's solves in the 4x4 finals? He was asking on Facebook if anyone had them.


----------



## Nervous Nico (Jul 17, 2017)

Great posts everyone. I use another PLL recognition tool but the premium version which is obviously better. This is from Feliks' site https://www.cubeskills.com/tools/pll-recognition-trainer
He also has a blog on colour neutrality. I tried it for a while but I think I am too old to switch now. @Selkie 

@Logiqx would it be possible to add me to the over 40s competitors' list please?
https://www.worldcubeassociation.org/persons/2017VIDO02
Date: 1976 Country: France

@Shaky Hands @Logiqx So cool the picture with Erno!!


----------



## chtiger (Jul 17, 2017)

3rd at-home attempt at 5BLD (plus 3 official attempts), off by 1 flipped edge. I must have memoed it as a flipped edge when it was actually already solved, because I'm positive I flipped it during execution. Time was 33:14. I'm gonna try one attempt per month.

Some PB's in the last week or so-- smashed my 3BLD from 1:32.69 to 1:32.50 , then a few days later really did smash it to 1:23.29. That one will probably last a while.
Had my first ever 3x3 sub-18 ao5 with 17.80, then beat that twice, down to 17.44. First sub-19 ao12 with 18.76. Still too inconsistent for big averages, but did get first sub-21 avg of 30 and 50. Slowly but surely creeping towards sub-20.


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## Logiqx (Jul 17, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> Great pics @Logiqx.
> Did you get any footage of Bill Wang's solves in the 4x4 finals? He was asking on Facebook if anyone had them.



Unfortunately not... I was recording Feliks and Sebastian full-time.

@Nervous Nico - sure thing... soon!


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## Logiqx (Jul 17, 2017)

I have lots of videos from worlds. Here's one for starters!


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## newtonbase (Jul 17, 2017)

Logiqx said:


> Unfortunately not... I was recording Feliks and Sebastian full-time.



No problem. Thought I'd ask.


----------



## Selkie (Jul 17, 2017)

@pglewis , @Nervous Nico - Thanks for the trainer links, much appreciated. I have to confess I have just signed up for CubeSkills premium membership if only for a couple of months, always happy to support good sites and interested to see video sets on subjects such as training strategies.

@Logiqx - Great photos buddy. I missed meeting two legends in Erno and @Brest . Your Faz filming is becoming legendary matey 

....

Managed to get a sub 5 minute 7x7 sooner than I had anticipated but unfortunately not on film. 4:58.92. Centers were a very pleasing PB sub 2:20 but the rest of the solve didn't feel great which gives me hope for more improvement.


----------



## mark49152 (Jul 18, 2017)

@Logiqx, great pics and thanks for updating the oldies list. Now #1 in MBLD. I just ordered another 10 cubes to celebrate


----------



## Logiqx (Jul 18, 2017)

Time for a summary of Paris!

The competition in London was really cool a couple of weeks ago and Paris was an amazing experience. It was great to meet so many cubers and spend time in the company of like-minded people who share the same hobby.

It was fun to work as staff alongside the likes of Ron Van Bruchem (@Ron) and Chris Hardwick (@cmhardw) on Thursday and Sunday. I also enjoyed meeting up and talking with @Brest, Jeremy Fleischman and Lucas Garron who are all cool guys.

Hanging out with the UK guys was great and it was awesome to have the likes of Alex Lau, Jayden McNeil, Sebastian + Philipp Weyer, Feliks and Mats hanging out and solving at our practice table. I witnessed Feliks getting a 2:03 PB whilst practicing 7x7x7 so maybe we'll see a sub-2 in competition some time soon!

I got to judge a bunch of people who I've only seen on YouTube - Antoine Cantin, Anthony Brooks, Chris Olson and Dana Yi to name just a few. Judging on the main stage for the 3BLD final was also a really memorable experience. I've almost lost count of the number of records that I've watched over the past week and Paris provided yet more WRs; 5x5x5 single, 6x6x6 single + average, 7x7x7 single + average, pyraminx average and nearly a new 4x4x4 average. Charlie Stark also produced an impressive ER average on Square-1.

Another cool moment was when I was judging for someone who had just got a PB single on 3x3 - 10.3 / 10.4 iirc. He told me that it was a new PB and my response was "nice... sub-10 this time?". He then banged out a 9.6s full-step solve so we did the obligatory photos of him with the cube and the comp display. 

It was great to meet Raul @moralsh for the first time and it was a stroke of luck that Erno was passing at the time we were doing our oldies photo. Apologies to @David Zemdegs for rushing off before introducing you to the rest of the guys on this thread. I had to dash for the Eurostar back to the UK.

I don't think I would have gone to Paris had it not been for Billy Jeffs (@BillyRain) arranging the group travel so many thanks for your efforts! The staffing, spectating and socialising were all worth making the trip but it was also nice to compete and get PB averages in comp resembling my global averages for 3x3x3 and Pyra - 16.32 and 8.07 respectively. It was a small relief to get an average in 2x2x2 as the 6s soft cut made me a bit jittery and I locked up on the last 2 solves to produce a mediocre but acceptable 6.20 average.

Congratulations to everyone who got the times / performances that they were after in Paris and respect to @mark49152 for his 14/14 MBLD - amazing!


----------



## Logiqx (Jul 18, 2017)

Nervous Nico said:


> Great posts everyone. I use another PLL recognition tool but the premium version which is obviously better. This is from Feliks' site https://www.cubeskills.com/tools/pll-recognition-trainer
> He also has a blog on colour neutrality. I tried it for a while but I think I am too old to switch now. @Selkie
> 
> @Logiqx would it be possible to add me to the over 40s competitors' list please?
> ...



Done


----------



## Mike Hughey (Jul 18, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> @Logiqx, great pics and thanks for updating the oldies list. Now #1 in MBLD. I just ordered another 10 cubes to celebrate


Congratulations, Mark! You're doing awesome things with your BLD results!


----------



## mark49152 (Jul 18, 2017)

Mike Hughey said:


> Congratulations, Mark! You're doing awesome things with your BLD results!


Thanks Mike. That's special coming from someone who's achieved as much as you have in blindfolded! Cheers!


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## Logiqx (Jul 18, 2017)

Another video gift...


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## Logiqx (Jul 18, 2017)

WR average...


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## pglewis (Jul 18, 2017)

More supporting evidence that over 40s speedsolvers are unicorns.


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## Logiqx (Jul 18, 2017)

Final video for a little while...


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## Selkie (Jul 18, 2017)

@Logiqx - Nice summary of Worlds and great videos Mike.

@mark49152 - Nice MBLD ranking mate and well deserved, 10 more cubes makes ... 24?


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## Nervous Nico (Jul 18, 2017)

Logiqx said:


> Done


Thank you so much @Logiqx for adding me! Loving the videos too. I could see @Shaky Hands in the background of Max's new OH WR average. Sounds like you guys had the best time. Teaching a Rubik's Cube club at my school tomorrow, last one of the year, nice to see their progress and lots of them solving the cube around the school between lessons and at break times. A couple of them have PBs of 24 and 26 seconds if I don't watch out...


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## mark49152 (Jul 18, 2017)

Selkie said:


> @mark49152 - Nice MBLD ranking mate and well deserved, 10 more cubes makes ... 24?


I now have 30 MBLD cubes. Aim high: )

Nice videos Mike, and nice summary. Indeed meeting top cubers and long time pioneers, judging and competing alongside the world's best were the highlights of this comp for sure. There are too many examples to mention, but the whole experience was inspiring and I truly hope to have another opportunity to attend a big comp like this one day.

Meanwhile here's my MBLD. Many thanks to Ben and Andy for judging


----------



## newtonbase (Jul 18, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> I now have 30 MBLD cubes. Aim high: )
> 
> Nice videos Mike, and nice summary. Indeed meeting top cubers and long time pioneers, judging and competing alongside the world's best were the highlights of this comp for sure. There are too many examples to mention, but the whole experience was inspiring and I truly hope to have another opportunity to attend a big comp like this one day.
> 
> Meanwhile here's my MBLD. Many thanks to Ben and Andy for judging


Great stuff. 
Did your shoulders hurt the next day @bubbagrub ?


----------



## pglewis (Jul 18, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> I now have 30 MBLD cubes. Aim high: )
> 
> Nice videos Mike, and nice summary. Indeed meeting top cubers and long time pioneers, judging and competing alongside the world's best were the highlights of this comp for sure. There are too many examples to mention, but the whole experience was inspiring and I truly hope to have another opportunity to attend a big comp like this one day.
> 
> Meanwhile here's my MBLD. Many thanks to Ben and Andy for judging



lol @bubbagrub... I even know how it ends and I was still holding my breath saying "nooooo, no no no!"


----------



## Shaky Hands (Jul 18, 2017)

@bubbagrub deserves a medal for that double-judging - bizarre setup really and limiting in terms of access to the stopwatches too. My judging task in the 2nd solve was so much easier in comparison.

Excellent MBLD attempts @mark49152 - well done once again.


----------



## Mike Hughey (Jul 19, 2017)

So Mark, what was the story with that cube you went back to? Were you thinking you might have made a mistake?

Also, looking at the results I wondered - was there a cutoff on the third solve at 10 points?


----------



## mark49152 (Jul 19, 2017)

Thanks Andy and yes the judging setup was a bit awkward. The harmonica holders were clearly assembled by someone who hadn't used one as the cards were stuck on too low. Not only would some competitors have been able to see right over the top, but it made them difficult to get over the head in the first place 



Mike Hughey said:


> So Mark, what was the story with that cube you went back to? Were you thinking you might have made a mistake?
> 
> Also, looking at the results I wondered - was there a cutoff on the third solve at 10 points?


Yes there was a 10 point cutoff. 27 made it through and we were all put in the same room for the third attempt, which is why I'm surrounded by world class MBLDers .

Regarding that cube, I suspected I had forgotten to flip an edge, but wasn't sure. So I left it until last then retraced the edges already solved by my memo. Only FL was untouched, and I was pretty sure I had not attempted to memo my FL flip image, so I concluded it was solved.


----------



## Jason Green (Jul 19, 2017)

Logiqx said:


> Time for a summary of Paris!
> 
> The competition in London was really cool a couple of weeks ago and Paris was an amazing experience. It was great to meet so many cubers and spend time in the company of like-minded people who share the same hobby.
> 
> ...


Chris Brooks and Dana Yi will be in my Nats video... When I get it done some day. 



pglewis said:


> lol @bubbagrub... I even know how it ends and I was still holding my breath saying "nooooo, no no no!"


@bubbagrub I guess I had not seen your photo, I did not realize that was you! I commented on YouTube that your reaction cracked me up.


----------



## Selkie (Jul 19, 2017)

@mark49152 , @bubbagrub - Awesome first attempt Mark and loved Ben's face when you picked up a solved cube at the end to review!

Bit of an update on blindfold cross training. When I started my averages of 50 I was getting a success rate of about 40/50, just got a 49/50. Practice is paying off and I can move onto my next cross training stage soon. Most of my early mistakes were not aligning the centres correctly with D/D'/D2 and particularly difficult crosses. Beginning to nail the awkward ones now. Wish I'd done this years ago.


----------



## bubbagrub (Jul 19, 2017)

Heh! I had no idea I made such crazy facial expressions while judging... but it's certainly nice rewatching that moment and seeing Mark's great result. 

Great to see so many of the regulars from this thread at the comp, including one or two I'd not met before. I also met one or two older cubers who aren't on here. I'm hoping to add Daniel Rose Levine's mum to Mike's over 40's github list.


----------



## newtonbase (Jul 19, 2017)

pglewis said:


> More supporting evidence that over 40s speedsolvers are unicorns.
> 
> View attachment 8215


First time I saw this post I didn't even realise is was me. I think the highlight of the photo is Erno's hand gesture.


----------



## Shaky Hands (Jul 20, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> First time I saw this post I didn't even realise is was me. I think the highlight of the photo is Erno's hand gesture.



The "hand gesture" was just in the pic that Mike posted in the other place. The one here on speedsolving is better I think.


----------



## Fyzzna (Jul 20, 2017)

Got my first sub-15 ao5 today 



Spoiler



Average of 5: 14.99
1. 14.61 D2 R2 U' L2 U B2 R2 D L2 R2 U' L' B2 D L' D' L R B' L'
2. 15.89 R2 D R2 U2 B2 U L2 D F2 R U R2 U R D' F U B' U2
3. (16.54) B D B2 D2 L' B' L U2 L F' B L2 B' L2 U2 F L2 U2 B'
4. 14.46 U2 R2 U' B2 U F2 U' R2 B2 D2 F2 R F' U F' R B F L' B' U'
5. (13.67) B L2 B R2 F D2 R2 D2 R2 B D2 L F' D U' L2 B U R' D2


----------



## oneshot (Jul 20, 2017)

Cute little story. I just got a text from my mom saying my 72 year old dad went out and bought a cube because he sees me doing it all the time and he's always wanted to learn


----------



## JanW (Jul 21, 2017)

Interesting. Something in my brain seems to have clicked. About a month ago when I first tried experimenting with other than white crosses, I found yellow to be somewhat manageable, but the other were utterly impossible. Trying to work out how to align the pieces of the F2L pairs, or even work out which pieces were part of the F2L pairs, was a crazy brain twister. So I left it at that and didn't do any further solves with those nasty crosses. 

Today I tried again and it just worked.  It all made sense and I did not have to overload my brain to figure out how to form the F2L pairs. It's obviously not quite as fast as white or yellow cross, but not a total disaster either. I did an Ao50 on orange at 25.08. The 50 solves included five sub-20 singles and a couple of 17s. Overall, this is quite close to were I was with the white cross at the beginning of this year. This gives me hope that learning full color neutrality might not be that bad after all.

I already started the race to sub-20 with yellow cross today. First attempt I got a 21.4 Ao12, including a 15.xx full-step solve. A promising start!


----------



## JanW (Jul 21, 2017)

CN adventures, vol. 2

I figure there are 3 main obstacles to overcome when aiming for CN.

-Learning to solve the cube using with any cross.
-Learning to switch between cross colors from one solve to the next without becoming all confused.
-Learning to pick the best cross, and plan it, during inspection.

The most common advice I've seen is to work on all the cross colors separately until they are fluent, then start combining colors. I'm thinking about trying something different and combining the first two steps above right from the start. Looking at all possible crosses during inspection seems a bit too hard still, at least with a 15 second limit, I'll get to that later.

The plan is to pick the cross based on the first move in the scramble. Whichever face is turned first will be my cross face. My first attempts with this technique resulted in a 23.92 Ao100. The white crosses are in there to drag the average down a bit, but there was good solves with the other crosses as well. Seems like it includes sub-20s on all crosses but blue. Sample size is too small to draw any conclusions yet, but overall I felt blue and green were the weakest.

As I pick the cross based on the first move in the scramble, it is easy to sort the times by cross color later. I'm gonna work on this until I have 1000 solves, then I can look at how well I'm performing the different crosses.


----------



## JohnnyReggae (Jul 21, 2017)

JanW said:


> CN adventures, vol. 2
> 
> I figure there are 3 main obstacles to overcome when aiming for CN.
> 
> ...


I quite like this approach. I've really been wanting to move to CN, but am afraid at the loss of time and the perceived step backwards. I've been putting in a lot of time and work lately on look-ahead and don't want to lose the momentum that I've managed over the last couple months. But in the same breath I really want to be CN ...  ... I guess I'm afraid ...


----------



## JohnnyReggae (Jul 21, 2017)

Got an new ao12 PB which happened in an ao100 I did today, first sub-15 ao12 

Generated By csTimer on 2017-7-21
avg of 12: 14.86

Time List:
1. 12.94 L2 U' L2 B2 D' U2 F2 D L2 D2 B' R2 D2 R B' L2 B' F2 D L2 B
2. 13.80 R B U B' L' D F2 B2 L' F B2 U B2 R2 U' F2 R2 U2 R2 U
3. 14.41 D2 B' R' B2 D' F2 D L2 F2 L U2 F2 R' U2 B2 L' F2 L2 F
4. 14.17 F U' L B2 U L U' F2 R L F' U2 B2 D2 B R2 U2 L2 F'
5. 16.95 L2 D B' L' B2 R' F U D2 F2 D2 F D2 F2 R2 B' R2 D'
6. 16.27 U F2 U' R2 F' B D2 R' D R' U F2 D F2 L2 U2 B2 R2 F2 U'
7. (19.86) D2 U2 R2 F D2 U2 F L2 B2 R2 B' U B D L' U R' B L F L'
8. 13.92 D B' D' B' U2 D B U' R' F' D2 L2 B U2 B U2 R2 B2 U2 B'
9. 15.39 B2 R' F2 L' B2 F2 R U2 R U L B' L2 D2 L' F D' B' L2
10. (10.95) R U2 B2 D F2 U' R2 F2 L2 B2 U2 L B U2 F' L D B' F2 D2 F
11. 15.77 D2 L B' L' D2 L' B2 U B2 U2 F' D2 F R2 L2 F D'
12. 14.94 F D2 B2 L2 F L2 F2 D2 R2 B' L2 D' F' L D' B2 R B2 U' B' R'

edit: Using a new DIY magnetic stickerless Moyu GTS2


----------



## Rubix Cubix (Jul 21, 2017)

JanW said:


> CN adventures, vol. 2
> 
> I figure there are 3 main obstacles to overcome when aiming for CN.
> 
> ...



I've been colour neutral for a while now and I still sometimes spend too long looking at what cross to go for. I think the best thing is just to look at a few sides and then choose which ever one is alright instead of looking for the best cross every time


----------



## Selkie (Jul 21, 2017)

@Johnny - Heh Brent, sub 15 Ao15 is a huge landmark, you have made some great progression recently.

@JanW - I remember saying in this thread not 2 weeks ago I was far too old to even consider changing to colour neutral. However when doing my blindfold cross practice last couple of days I have seen some very easy other crosses so I have done a bit of practice and today did an Ao12 with each colour:-


```
White     23.83
Yellow    23.32
Orange    23.36
Red       20.10
Green     18.98
Blue      14.73
```

I have to say I find white and yellow cross extremely difficult solves. I think because I solve on blue cross I am used to a strong cross colour and white and yellow just do not stand out for me. Blue obviously went well and green was closest being opposite but I was really surprised by red. I think I could become quite fast with red quite quickly and with very slow solving was almost able to pick up lookahead straight away.

I did try some CN a couple of years ago with very disappointing results. I guess a lot of concentration on megaminx has helped with recognising other F2L pairs since then.

One thing I have found it I can execute most crosses at the same speed and can always plan them whatever cross colour but have to remind myself of order of edges at the start of inspection. Though I have been using umlimted inspection time.

I might persevere with CN as part of my practice as I find that doing CN solves really concentrates look ahead and tracking as failure to do do leaves you staring blanking at a non moving cube. Whether I switch or not in the future its another task that concentrates other ways of thinking

@Logiqx - I think Gilles Roux's 3x3 average time is wrong on the rankings buddy. Seems to be 13.03 on WCA.


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## mark49152 (Jul 22, 2017)

My 3BLD highlights from Worlds. I still haven't made progress in breaking that table tapping habit


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## chtiger (Jul 22, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> My 3BLD highlights from Worlds. I still haven't made progress in breaking that table tapping habit


I don't think the judge cared that you weren't using a blindfold. You should've kept going



Selkie said:


> - I think Gilles Roux's 3x3 average time is wrong on the rankings buddy. Seems to be 13.03 on WCA.


The 13.03 was before he was 40.


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## newtonbase (Jul 22, 2017)

chtiger said:


> I don't think the judge cared that you weren't using a blindfold. You should've kept going


He didn't seem to understand the problem. 
I had a fear of doing exactly this going into the comp as I tend not to use a blindfold either. Luckily I didn't waste any of my DNFs.


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## mark49152 (Jul 22, 2017)

chtiger said:


> I don't think the judge cared that you weren't using a blindfold. You should've kept going


Yeah he noticed but not until after I'd stopped, as he was still focused on placing the sight blocker and I stopped very quickly. He certainly would have noticed if I'd kept going - he's an experienced delegate and organiser .


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## JanW (Jul 22, 2017)

Selkie said:


> I have to say I find white and yellow cross extremely difficult solves. I think because I solve on blue cross I am used to a strong cross colour and white and yellow just do not stand out for me.


Interesting that being used to white cross, I find blue/green the most difficult, and being used to the blue cross, you find white/yellow most difficult. I suppose something about those colors is not quite compatible. I think colors standing out very much depends on what you're used to looking for. White stands out very well for me, yellow almost as well. 

One problem with other crosses is that I don't react automatically to cross pieces being in the wrong place. A white cross piece in the U layer immediately screams at me that I messed up the cross. But with blue/green, I've sometimes completed F2L (and even OLL) before I realize I have messed up the cross. I wonder how long it will take to get over things like that..

When I first started experimenting with other crosses, PLL recognition was very slow. Seeing white and yellow colors had me confused. That's already improving quite a bit.


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## Logiqx (Jul 22, 2017)

chtiger said:


> The 13.03 was before he was 40.



@Selkie - The SQL rankings calculate the competitor's age for individual results and if the age is <40 the result is excluded.


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## Selkie (Jul 22, 2017)

Logiqx said:


> @Selkie - The SQL rankings calculate the competitor's age for individual results and if the age is <40 the result is excluded.



Yeah thanks mate @chtiger , I'm being a numpty. Saw he had attended World's last weekend and was interested in how he did and then suddenly thought 2nd place was a lot further away than I had thought!


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## gogozerg (Jul 22, 2017)

chtiger said:


> The 13.03 was before he was 40.



I was 40, and it would have been an easy sub-13 without my neighbor yelling with his feet on the table!


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## Lid (Jul 22, 2017)

gogozerg said:


> I was 40, and it would have been an easy sub-13 without my neighbor yelling with his feet on the table!


Logiqx doesn't use the exact birthdate, but rather the year, so basicly everyones birthday is dec-31, for example I am 1 year older on all my results on his lists, since I was born in January.


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## Jlvs2run (Jul 22, 2017)

For accuracy and credibility purposes, the exact birth dates should be used.


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## Selkie (Jul 22, 2017)

Jlvs2run said:


> For accuracy and credibility purposes, the exact birth dates should be used.



WCA does not expose dates of birth and in fact they were not collected from early on so the way @Logiqx calculates it is a workaround but appreciated to at least give us an official over 40's ranking


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## Selkie (Jul 22, 2017)

gogozerg said:


> I was 40, and it would have been an easy sub-13 without my neighbor yelling with his feet on the table!



Great to see you back competing, can never have enough 40+ competitors


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## Jason Green (Jul 22, 2017)

Jlvs2run said:


> For accuracy and credibility purposes, the exact birth dates should be used.


Plus as he has explained most sports stats are done this way. I'm no expert on sports stats but it made sense to me.


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## Logiqx (Jul 22, 2017)

Jlvs2run said:


> For accuracy and credibility purposes, the exact birth dates should be used.



Most other sports / actual sports (in my case, athletics and windsurfing) age remains constant during the competition year.

You essentially start and end the competition year in the same age category regardless of where your birthday falls.

There are two advantages to using the same approach for the unofficial over-40 rankings:
1) It's consistent with the way that other sports do their oldies rankings (over 35/40 is often called "masters" *).
2) The rankings data is completely public and YOB is less sensitive than DOB from a privacy / identity perspective.

* I / we are in no way a master when it comes to cubing. lol


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## pglewis (Jul 22, 2017)

As another January b-day I was zero years old for nearly two years! 

Normally I prefer not to rush my aging but I turn 50 in six months yet won't be forging ahead with the over-50s until 2019.

[Edit: Keeping in mind I understand why it's done this way, just noting the curious side-effects]


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## Jlvs2run (Jul 22, 2017)

Athletics age records are based on birth dates, not years. Age group competitions might be grouped based on years for organizational purposes, but that is not a qualification for records. The ARRS bases their athletic records on birth days, as shown in their single age athletics listing of records, such as for the 5k on the track, and their statement of standards.



> Performances are subject to the same standards as listing for national records plus the additional requirement that the runner's *date of birth* (as well as the race date) must be known. These are required to be able to document the runner's *exact age* at the time of the performance.
> 
> The IAAF does not ratify or maintain world single age records. The USATF does not have jurisdiction over world records and does not ratify single age records although the USATF maintains such lists for the USA. These records should be identified as ARRS recognized world records.


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## newtonbase (Jul 23, 2017)

Racehorses all have 1st January as their birth date.


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## oneshot (Jul 23, 2017)

3BLD PB for me. 5:23. Breaking 5 minutes should come soon.


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## moralsh (Jul 23, 2017)

Worlds was awesome and also incredibly tiresome staffing all 4 days, but it was worth it every minute, I'll try to recap a bit:

Day 1:

After arriving late on Wednesday night we got there early because we didn't want to wait for registration, we didn't but in exchange I was very tired the whole day. I began judging feet 1st round and had the luck to judge winner and WR holder Jakub Kipa on a 31 and a 28 solve, I despise the event but that was truly amazing.

Later on I had to go to scramble for the first Multiblind attempt group 1, and that was one of the few glitches on the otherwise superb organisation. we were waiting for scrambles for like an hour an the whole day was delayed because of that and similar problems on the other room. I scrambled all of Shivam's cubes, more than half of Kamil's and some others, I stayed to judge because there weren't a lot of staff around. Very inspiring, makes me want to get back into Multi.

I missed Felik's 7x7 WR because I was submitting my 4x4 for 4BLD, and that was my first competition experience at worlds, on the bright side I managed to make the 3 attempts on the half an hour limit (10.xx, 8.xx, 8.xx IIRC) but I DNFed all 3 of them, I was also feeling very tired (and it was only the first day!) but that happens sometimes. I went downstairs to scramble Megaminx first round for a couple of rounds and we called it a day.

I was able to talk a fair bit to @Shaky Hands and @mark49152, a little less with @Logiqx, mainly because most of the time we both were staffing in different things, and didn't see @bubbagrub at all until the last day.

Day 2 is on the way


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## Selkie (Jul 23, 2017)

@moralsh - Great summary of day 1, I look forward to hearing about day 2.

Lots of you will be aware I have been sub 2:05 on 5x5 for a while, most recently stuck at 2:02 globally. Well following having a go on @Shaky Hands Cubicle Labs WuShuang M at London Open I ordered myself one. After a few daya practice I am so relieved to be able to say I think I am now sub 2 globally. I just did an Ao50 of 1:57.04. Edge apiring look ahead seems to have improved, coupled with a couple of seconds saving on my 3x3 stage due to the magnets.

The best solve was a personal best but should have been so much lower. When you get a PB when you have parity, one of your slowest PLLs and panicked and did 2 OLLs I know a sub 1:40 must come soon:-

5x5 PB Single 1:40.69


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## Logiqx (Jul 23, 2017)

Jlvs2run said:


> Athletics age records are based on birth dates, not years. Age group competitions might be grouped based on years for organizational purposes, but that is not a qualification for records. The ARRS bases their athletic records on birth days, as shown in their single age athletics listing of records, such as for the 5k on the track, and their statement of standards.



For reference, I was referring to the following rules for youngsters and oldies...

*IFCA *- http://www.internationalwindsurfing.com/userfiles/documents/IFCA_Championship_Rules.pdf


> 2.3. Age Divisions 2.3.1. Youth is a man or woman who is less than 20 years old. 2.3.2. Junior is a boy or girl who is less than 17 years old.
> 2.3.3. Master is a man who has reached the age of 35, or a woman who has reached the age of 30.
> 2.3.4. Grand Master is a man who has reached the age of 45, or a woman who has reached the age of 40.
> 2.3.5. *A sailor must have reached the minimum age in the relevant division by December 31st before the year of competition*.
> ...



*British Triathlon* - https://www.britishtriathlon.org/about-us/faqs?category=age-group


> As an Age-Group athlete, you will compete against other Age-Group athletes within your age-band category. *The age-band category that you fall into depends on your age on December 31st in the year of competition*.
> 
> Example: If you are 45 on 29 December 2016 then for the whole of 2016 you will compete in the 45-49 age-group.



*IAAF *- https://www.iaaf.org/download/download?filename=89ed4cba-6b5e-49fe-a43e-9f5487b77a84.pdf


> Age and Sex Categories
> Age Categories
> 1. Competition under these Rules may be divided into age group
> classifications as follows:
> ...



Summary:
- Windsurfing = my existing calculation (i.e. guaranteed >=40)
- Triathlon = my existing calculation - 1 year (i.e. guaranteed >=39)
- Athletics = my existing calculation for <20 but the IAAF switches to using the exact DOB for over 35's.

I remembered the fixed date calculation youngsters (under-18 /under-20) from when I was competing aged 18-28 but I only knew one master (>=35) so I didn't realise they were using DOB.

I don't propose to gather and publish peoples DOB since it feels irresponsible. As a compromise, I could change the rankings to use the same principle as triathlon, meaning that people are guaranteed to be at least 39 years old. As a consequence this would include Giles' best times and allow some of the youngsters on this thread (e.g @pglewis) to appear slightly earlier.


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## moralsh (Jul 23, 2017)

Thanks @Selkie, here it goes:

Day 2, Friday:

I had only 5BLD on the whole day, Worlds organisation where kind enough to let me scramble 5x5 for 90 minutes (all 3 rounds in my section) just to warm up my finger a bit , my accuracy scrambling was not perfect but was good enough , then a little bit of judging on SQ1 and I went upstairs for 5BLD, I was far less tired as the day before but unfortunately the event is a bit harder  First attempt was safe (28.xx minutes) and DNF by 3-4 centres and a lot of wings due to wrongly undone setup. I had to rush second attempt as the cumulative limit was 50 minutes, I memoed for 11 minutes and executed in 7 for a 18.xx DNF, the attempt was a clear DNF but it left a good sensation. (later, after worlds I did a 19:04 success, so I need to push more).

Then I missed watching Feliks' 38s 5x5 WR, because I was scrambling 5x5 again but it was amazing that everybody around was in awe of it as if nobody could really believe it.

After that, some more MBLD scrambling, I scrambled all of Kamil's cubes, and several others. at the end of the attempt, Maskow took the lead with a 40/46. after that, downstairs to 6x6 finals.

in 6x6 Finals, I judged Mats Valk, who had a better first round than the final. At the end Feliks and Mats were talking and Feliks was telling him that Kevin Hays (who was about to start his last solve) was going to win, Mats told him that maybe if he had a bad solve and Feliks answered "not that bad" or something of the likes, we all watched Kevin's final double parity and his big celebration.

I was scrambling again for mega so I saw that final from the side, Juan Pablo did what he was supposed to and won. I finally watch the 7x7 final properly and that was the end of day 2.

Watching le tour d'Eiffel fireworks that night was also incredibly awesome and something I'll remember for a while. Wow.

Tomorrow day 3!

Edit: Forgot to mention that while leaving 5BLD, I peeped Mark's scoresheet and saw his awesome 18:45


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## mark49152 (Jul 23, 2017)

Regarding the over 40s list, IMHO the current system is pretty much the only reasonable compromise where more accurate DOB is unavailable, regardless of what other sports do. I also think that by default it should remain as it is and results achieved at 39 rather than 40 should be excluded.

If someone is unhappy that their results when just turned 40 are excluded, maybe they could voluntarily provide a date at which their times should start being counted? That could be DOB (their choice whether to disclose it) or it could be the date of the first comp they attended aged 40.

Maybe a separate list is in order for the 30-39s or 35-39s if there is demand for it .


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## JanW (Jul 23, 2017)

I think the current system for the over 40s list is fine. Gives me an extra 10 months to practice before I need to compete for the rankings that really matter.


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## Jlvs2run (Jul 23, 2017)

Logiqx said:


> I was referring to the following rules for youngsters and oldies.


The rules allow for age group competitions to be grouped based on years for organizational purposes. However, that is not a qualification for record keeping, which is based on exact DOB, at least in athletics. 


> I don't propose to gather and publish peoples DOB since it feels irresponsible.


I understand how you feel, as keeping records is work. One thing that would be nice to see in the records is separation by 10 year divisions, especially beyond 40 year olds, even if there are only one or two people in each division, as this would encourage more to participate.


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## Jlvs2run (Jul 23, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> Regarding the over 40s list, IMHO the current system is pretty much the only reasonable compromise



People much older than 40 would rather have their own division. 



mark49152 said:


> If someone is unhappy that their results when just turned 40 are excluded, maybe they could voluntarily provide a date at which their times should start being counted? That could be DOB (their choice whether to disclose it) or it could be the date of the first comp they attended aged 40.



That looks fine to me.


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## mark49152 (Jul 23, 2017)

Jlvs2run said:


> People much older than 40 would rather have their own division.


Maybe so, but that's a different question than how to handle age boundaries.


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## Jlvs2run (Jul 23, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> Maybe so, but that's a different question than how to handle age boundaries.



Yes, that is a different suggestion, which I already made two years ago, and you said just to scroll down the 40's list to find them, as there are not enough to have their own groups.


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## mark49152 (Jul 23, 2017)

Jlvs2run said:


> Yes, that is a different suggestion, which I already made two years ago, and you said just to scroll down the 40's list to find them, as there are not enough to have their own groups.


I don't recall saying that two years ago, but if I did, my opinion hasn't changed .


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## pglewis (Jul 23, 2017)

oneshot said:


> 3BLD PB for me. 5:23. Breaking 5 minutes should come soon.



Well done, and so much for our friendly race to 5:30 . 



Logiqx said:


> ...and allow some of the youngsters on this thread (e.g @pglewis) to appear slightly earlier...



Yeah, I think you misread which decade I'm hitting come January


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## Jlvs2run (Jul 23, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> I don't recall saying that two years ago, but if I did, my opinion hasn't changed .


Of course not, because you already have your own division.


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## mark49152 (Jul 23, 2017)

Jlvs2run said:


> Of course not, because you already have your own division.


Because I think it's pointless. Ages are already listed for each result. If you want to see who's the fastest over-50 or over-60, the information is already there. Looking at 3x3 single, I count 10 out of 60 results achieved at >=50, five of which are >=60, which is hardly enough to warrant creating additional "divisions".

This is only for fun, not an official ranking, and not necessarily complete either. There are no official age divisions, so all you're really asking for is an extra search filter on Mike's page.


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## pglewis (Jul 23, 2017)

My $.02 on the method of age determination: I think a reasonable approach is to use actual DOB if provided and the old method if only YOB is available. I personally consider DOB to be public information in today's world, I'm sure it's not difficult to discover with minimal digging and I would certainly never use that as a primary security measure if it's within my control. Others may prefer to keep it as private as possible, regardless.

A couple weeks ago I would have said it's not a big enough deal to sweat it... but the singular case of Gilles' 13.03 is a great argument, if for no other reason than to make @Selkie work harder . 



Jlvs2run said:


> For accuracy and credibility purposes, the exact birth dates should be used.



I think the credibility of the list is de facto. As far as I know there is no other over-40s list, up to date or otherwise. It's entirely unofficial and for our own fun and friendly bragging rights. 



Jlvs2run said:


> Of course not, because you already have your own division.



Regarding further older divisions: as Mark says, there just aren't that many in the list and I'm sure even fewer active. The first generation cubers are reaching the 50 milestone now-ish. I'll be there soon and there are several active guys here in their upper 40s... but I don't see the over-50 group growing much for a while, otherwise. Behind _us_ was the 15-20 year "dark period". 

I think expanding to include an over-30 category makes a lot of sense in a sport where 25 is considered old, however. A lot of folks from the first renaissance period have reached 30 and that's the edge of a wave.


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## One Wheel (Jul 23, 2017)

I thought I heard that WCA stopped tracking age categories because parents were pushing kids to perform early, or people were concerned that would happen. I don't suppose there's any chance WCA could track 20-year blocks, so 0-19, 20-39, 40-59, 60-79, and 80+? Or even stop at 60+, so just 4 categories.


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## Jason Green (Jul 23, 2017)

I spoke to Jeremy Fleischman last year in Portland, and they would like to add back age rankings to the WCA website on an opt in basis. But yes basically they removed it due to the age of baby competitors. 

I like the rankings as they are, partly just because I'm not a fan of moving targets. If anyone wants there own variations remember the code is on GitHub.


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## muchacho (Jul 24, 2017)

Selkie said:


> 5x5 PB Single 1:40.69


I miss the washing machine, I almost think I can still hear it in the background. Am I right, crazy, or both?


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## JohnnyReggae (Jul 24, 2017)

muchacho said:


> I miss the washing machine, I almost think I can still hear it in the background. Am I right, crazy, or both?


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## Selkie (Jul 24, 2017)

I certainly think the unofficial over 40's rankings are a very valuable resource. I don't think I will ever get into a 3x3 or 5x5 final, however small the comp as I just cannot compete on that level but the friendly competition that the rankings give are great.

@muchacho , @JohnnyReggae - Haha, we rearranged the study on Saturday which does have the washing machine and tumble dryer in it. You certainly can hear the tumble dryer during the solve


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## newtonbase (Jul 24, 2017)

Had a little go at 4BLD. Was meant to be a memo test but went for the solve on a whim. How on earth do you track edges? I need twice as many fingers. 
I checked the cube after centres (at 32 mins!) and about half were wrong but the edges appeared unaffected so I'm doing something wrong there. Probably because I used U2 where I've only practiced with comms. Need to watch a video or 2.
Part way through edges I realised I'd used a wrong word. I tried to back track but screwed up. 
Corners were a doddle. 
I'd have tried it again but I lost the scramble. 
I don't think it will be as hard as I thought to get this right but doing it at speed is a long way off.


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## h2f (Jul 24, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> How on earth do you track edges?



It's only matter of practice. 1 or 2 cycle breaks are common in 4bld. So the first thing I count the targets in my memo. It's easy because I group them in 4 - 4 words makes one bigger image. If I have 3 images with 4 words I know all is fine. If theres no cycle breaks I should have 23 targets. One cycle breaks means 24 targets, two 25 etc. If I have lower than 23 targets I just look for the ones on its places. If I cant find them I just watch on every side of cube which have 2 wings and I go through my memo if they are in it. I think Mark, @mark49152 , can have his tricsk for it.

I have comp next weekend with 4bld and 5bld and I do few solves every day.


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## newtonbase (Jul 24, 2017)

h2f said:


> It's only matter of practice. 1 or 2 cycle breaks are common in 4bld. So the first thing I count the targets in my memo. It's easy because I group them in 4 - 4 words makes one bigger image. If I have 3 images with 4 words I know all is fine. If theres no cycle breaks I should have 23 targets. One cycle breaks means 24 targets, two 25 etc. If I have lower than 23 targets I just look for the ones on its places. If I cant find them I just watch on every side of cube which have 2 wings and I go through my memo if they are in it. I think Mark, @mark49152 , can have his tricsk for it.
> 
> I have comp next weekend with 4bld and 5bld and I do few solves every day.


Thanks. The formula is ok. I knew when I was finished as I had 25 letters with 2 breaks. No flipped edges helps. It was just working out the unsolved pieces when starting a new cycle that's difficult. My last cycle was for just 2 pieces which took me ages to find.
Centres are much easier as you only have to mark one piece per side.
Good luck in your comp.


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## JanW (Jul 24, 2017)

After a few days of solving with all 6 crosses, I went back to try an Ao100 with white cross only. Seems the change of pace has paid off, new Ao50 and Ao100.  Sub-19 Ao50 is very close now!

My most important goal for the year was getting running Ao1000 to sub-20. Currently at 20.02. I don't dare solve anymore in fear of messing it up... I've done the CN solves in a separate session, this Ao1000 only counts white cross solving.

Edit: Continued the session with 50 more solves and I'm not sure what's going on here. Somehow a few hundred CN solves have turned me into a cubing genius when it comes to the white cross. The last 100 solves felt like nothing can go wrong. Running Ao12 did not once go above 20. Ao50 down to 18.75, Ao100 to 19.03 and running Ao1000 now at 19.96! And a 12.54 full-step single.


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## h2f (Jul 24, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> I knew when I was finished as I had 25 letters with 2 breaks. No flipped edges helps. It was just working out the unsolved pieces when starting a new cycle that's difficult.



I know the pain.  Few days ago I was fine after 2 minutes and the I've realized I need 2 targets. I've finished my memo 5 minutes later. Guess why?


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## newtonbase (Jul 24, 2017)

h2f said:


> I know the pain.  Few days ago I was fine after 2 minutes and the I've realized I need 2 targets. I've finished my memo 5 minutes later. Guess why?


Ha ha. 
I think I'll need to do a lot of edges only practice.


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## moralsh (Jul 24, 2017)

@newtonbase Forget U2 and just watch Daniel Sheppard videos on centre comms, do some sighted solves and you're good to go. If you don't want to go to the easiest comms you have on any cube, at least go directly with advanced U2 (setting up the hardest centre to UFL and execute the resulting comm with U2 as interchange and the other centre set up as insertion.

About tracking remaining edges, I usually go face by face checking if I've used the letter, the first times it takes some time, but with some practice it's almost immediate.


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## Logiqx (Jul 24, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> If someone is unhappy that their results when just turned 40 are excluded, maybe they could voluntarily provide a date at which their times should start being counted? That could be DOB (their choice whether to disclose it) or it could be the date of the first comp they attended aged 40.



@mark49152 @Jlvs2run @gogozerg

Ok. I've updated the SQL scripts to support an actual DOB... if disclosed or freely available in the public domain.

Everyone now has a virtual birthday of 31st December which means their results are unchanged.

Gilles however has a proper DOB - freely available on Wikipedia + Speedsolving Wiki.

Net result... Gilles is now harder to catch in the oldies rankings!



Selkie said:


> I certainly think the unofficial over 40's rankings are a very valuable resource. I don't think I will ever get into a 3x3 or 5x5 final, however small the comp as I just cannot compete on that level but the friendly competition that the rankings give are great.



You have some catching up to do...


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## mark49152 (Jul 24, 2017)

h2f said:


> I think Mark, @mark49152 , can have his tricsk for it.


As Grzegorz said, it's just practice. My approach is as follows: I don't count wing targets up front because that wastes time. I start tracing straight away, and mentally keep an eye on the pieces I like to start new cycles on (A, L, R, J, T). If I hit a break and one or more of those pieces hasn't yet been covered, I start a new cycle there immediately. That is usually enough to get me to a point where there are only a few pieces left, maybe 5 or less. For example if I hit the second break after 20 targets, I know there are 4 pieces left. Then I look for solved pieces and deduct those. So let's say I find two pieces solved, I know there are two remaining, which must be swapped. Finding those final pieces is just practice.

Note that the nice thing about wings is that they can never be flipped .

For centres I use mostly advanced U2 with a handful of comms. Some people say start with comms, which is fair enough, as they are not difficult, but my philosophy is the same as M2 for edges - advanced U2 is a kind of restricted comms, which are almost as move efficient as unrestricted comms, and a good stepping stone for incrementally adding other comms. But, unlike comms, U2 is brainless and easier to plough through without pausing. I guess it depends how much patience you have - your accuracy will improve faster and times will drop faster with U2 but comms will pay off better in the long run.


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## newtonbase (Jul 24, 2017)

moralsh said:


> @newtonbase Forget U2 and just watch Daniel Sheppard videos on centre comms, do some sighted solves and you're good to go. If you don't want to go to the easiest comms you have on any cube, at least go directly with advanced U2 (setting up the hardest centre to UFL and execute the resulting comm with U2 as interchange and the other centre set up as insertion.
> 
> About tracking remaining edges, I usually go face by face checking if I've used the letter, the first times it takes some time, but with some practice it's almost immediate.


I've watched Dan's video before. I even have a vague memory of discussing it with him in the pub but I was pretty drunk at the time. I've just watched it again plus some of Ollie's stuff. Advanced U2 sounds good. There are no resources but it's the same concept as advanced M2 and R2 which I'm comfortable with so thanks for the tip.


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## newtonbase (Jul 24, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> As Grzegorz said, it's just practice. My approach is as follows: I don't count wing targets up front because that wastes time. I start tracing straight away, and mentally keep an eye on the pieces I like to start new cycles on (A, L, R, J, T). If I hit a break and one or more of those pieces hasn't yet been covered, I start a new cycle there immediately. That is usually enough to get me to a point where there are only a few pieces left, maybe 5 or less. For example if I hit the second break after 20 targets, I know there are 4 pieces left. Then I look for solved pieces and deduct those. So let's say I find two pieces solved, I know there are two remaining, which must be swapped. Finding those final pieces is just practice.
> 
> Note that the nice thing about wings is that they can never be flipped .
> 
> For centres I use mostly advanced U2 with a handful of comms. Some people say start with comms, which is fair enough, as they are not difficult, but my philosophy is the same as M2 for edges - advanced U2 is a kind of restricted comms, which are almost as move efficient as unrestricted comms, and a good stepping stone for incrementally adding other comms. But, unlike comms, U2 is brainless and easier to plough through without pausing. I guess it depends how much patience you have - your accuracy will improve faster and times will drop faster with U2 but comms will pay off better in the long run.


I like the idea of tracking favourite pieces. Thanks.


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## mark49152 (Jul 24, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> I like the idea of tracking favourite pieces. Thanks.


Great to see you trying 4BLD by the way, it's such a fun event. Good luck and hope to see you competing soon! 

Another tip on wings: One of the things I found hardest was avoiding mixing up the adjacent stickers on each edge, like for L mistakenly looking at the opposite sticker on the F piece. I settled on a method of checking every target by imagining rotating its dedge to either the DF or UB dedge and checking which sticker corresponds to DFr or UBr. For example, the L and F dedge can be moved to DF with an F' move, and it's the lower piece whose sticker would coincide with DFr, so I know the lower wing is F and the upper wing L. After a few hundred solves you don't think about it any more, of course


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## chtiger (Jul 24, 2017)

Logiqx said:


> Ok. I've updated the SQL scripts to support an actual DOB... if disclosed or freely available in the public domain.
> 
> Everyone now has a virtual birthday of 31st December which means their results are unchanged.
> 
> ...


 Since you volunteered to do that, I might as well have an accurate birthday on there. September 11th for me.


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## pglewis (Jul 24, 2017)

Logiqx said:


> Ok. I've updated the SQL scripts to support an actual DOB... if disclosed or freely available in the public domain.



Jan 20th here.


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## newtonbase (Jul 24, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> Great to see you trying 4BLD by the way, it's such a fun event. Good luck and hope to see you competing soon!
> 
> Another tip on wings: One of the things I found hardest was avoiding mixing up the adjacent stickers on each edge, like for L mistakenly looking at the opposite sticker on the F piece. I settled on a method of checking every target by imagining rotating its dedge to either the DF or UB dedge and checking which sticker corresponds to DFr or UBr. For example, the L and F dedge can be moved to DF with an F' move, and it's the lower piece whose sticker would coincide with DFr, so I know the lower wing is F and the upper wing L. After a few hundred solves you don't think about it any more, of course


My current method is to trace clockwise around the face looking for the 2nd piece of each pair. Your method will help more with set ups and basic comms so I'll try it. 



chtiger said:


> Since you volunteered to do that, I might as well have an accurate birthday on there. September 11th for me.


My brother's birthday! He's 43. You?


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## mark49152 (Jul 24, 2017)

I might as well get some over-50 scores on the board . June 1st, roughly.


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## chtiger (Jul 25, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> My brother's birthday! He's 43. You?


Me too. Was he born at 3:50 PM GMT?


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## Jason Green (Jul 25, 2017)

My birthday is September 18, I am 42. So you are about 51 weeks older than me. 

First sub 1 4x4, I knew it would be soon! It was a great solve and I managed to resist looking at the time and then had easy OLL and PLL skip.


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## newtonbase (Jul 25, 2017)

chtiger said:


> Me too. Was he born at 3:50 PM GMT?


Cool. No idea what time he was born but I'll find out.

My birthday is 6th June.


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## muchacho (Jul 25, 2017)

20th June


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## moralsh (Jul 25, 2017)

muchacho said:


> 20th June


6 days earlier, lots of gemini around here!

On big cubes, I mostly do comms that have the the E layers as interchange layer so I also try to compromise a bit of efficiency for an easier comm. Most of the cases can be done with 1-2 setup moves at most and I try not to rotate. One piece of advice when doing comms, don't be afraid of moving the buffer as a setup move and always try to move the layers consistently, I mean, if you need a 2 move setup which moves both targets, always move target 1 first (or otherwise) to be able to undo setup without thinking.

I'm due for my day 3 recap, I'll try to do it in a while


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## Logiqx (Jul 25, 2017)

chtiger said:


> Since you volunteered to do that, I might as well have an accurate birthday on there. September 11th for me.





pglewis said:


> Jan 20th here.





mark49152 said:


> I might as well get some over-50 scores on the board . June 1st, roughly.



Done. I've also added comments to the code to ensure the pubic source or personal request is recorded:

https://github.com/Logiqx/wca-ipy/blob/master/Over 40s.ipynb


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## newtonbase (Jul 25, 2017)

moralsh said:


> 6 days earlier, lots of gemini around here!
> 
> On big cubes, I mostly do comms that have the the E layers as interchange layer so I also try to compromise a bit of efficiency for an easier comm. Most of the cases can be done with 1-2 setup moves at most and I try not to rotate. One piece of advice when doing comms, don't be afraid of moving the buffer as a setup move and always try to move the layers consistently, I mean, if you need a 2 move setup which moves both targets, always move target 1 first (or otherwise) to be able to undo setup without thinking.
> 
> I'm due for my day 3 recap, I'll try to do it in a while


I was thinking about setup order as I do tend to have trouble remembering them and can panic if there's more than one needed. I had considered doing them in the order of speffz faces but your method sounds better. Thanks.


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## Logiqx (Jul 25, 2017)

@muchacho @moralsh - updated

This had a material affect for @moralsh in some events such as clock.


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## NewbieCuber (Jul 25, 2017)

Progress Report: What is it, 6, 7 weeks of cubing? I don't know :confused:

My F2L is SOOOO SLOOOOW! I'm really trying to get it under my fingers but I'm still taking 45 to 50 seconds just to finish my cross and F2L. I may be at the point where I just need to crank out an hour of timed speed solves every day until it becomes 2nd nature. I'm also going to really start focusing on visualizing the cross moves before I start solving. I can usually pre-define the moves for 2 edges, I'll push that to 3 edges and then to 4. But wow, even though I seem to understand basic F2l, it just takes me forever to see the pairs.

I am, however, back down to the 1:10 range. When I started F2l my times went up to almost 2 minutes so there is improvement. But it's frustrating when I finish my F2L and look up and see the timer at 50 seconds already.


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## Shaky Hands (Jul 25, 2017)

@NewbieCuber - improvement will come in time, I assure you. I'd suggest turning the timer off for at least part of your practicing to reduce the pressure and allow you to concentrate on the mechanics of improvement.

Good luck and well done for sticking with it.


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## JanW (Jul 25, 2017)

@NewbieCuber, I agree with Shaky Hands, turn off the timer for a while. When you are learning new things your full focus should be on those, not looking up to the timer. Whatever times you are doing now doesn't really matter, since you will so soon be doing a lot faster times anyway.  When learning F2L, you could devote most of your cubing time to that stage. Just slow turning focused F2L solving, then rescramble once F2L is done.


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## pglewis (Jul 25, 2017)

NewbieCuber said:


> Progress Report: What is it, 6, 7 weeks of cubing? I don't know :confused:
> 
> My F2L is SOOOO SLOOOOW! I'm really trying to get it under my fingers but I'm still taking 45 to 50 seconds just to finish my cross and F2L. I may be at the point where I just need to crank out an hour of timed speed solves every day until it becomes 2nd nature. I'm also going to really start focusing on visualizing the cross moves before I start solving. I can usually pre-define the moves for 2 edges, I'll push that to 3 edges and then to 4. But wow, even though I seem to understand basic F2l, it just takes me forever to see the pairs.
> 
> I am, however, back down to the 1:10 range. When I started F2l my times went up to almost 2 minutes so there is improvement. But it's frustrating when I finish my F2L and look up and see the timer at 50 seconds already.



It's a lot more cases to cope with than beginners' method so it just takes practice. It probably took me 3 months to get consistently in the 1:30 range, I'm not really a natural but I'm stubborn! 

I'm continually at a state where there are new things that slow me down but will help in the long run. I know about half of OLL at this point and 2-looking is usually faster for me right now, with extra recognition time needed to determine if it's a 1-look case I know. Shutting the timer off for a week or two can be good if I'm allowing it to pressure me into comfortable old habits rather than exercising new ones. I'm also getting a lot better at not letting the timer control me. Sometimes when I start to feel timer pressure it's a satisfying assertion to finish a solve and deliberately sit there for 2 more seconds before stopping the timer. 

Casual "low attention" solves are great IMO, just solving a bunch while watching TV or whatever without thinking a lot about all the dos and don'ts. You want to reach the state where solving your pairs is just something you do without thinking. A few days of subconscious solves followed by more targeted, focused practice can yield surprising progress.


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## moralsh (Jul 25, 2017)

Logiqx said:


> @muchacho @moralsh - updated
> 
> This had a material affect for @moralsh in some events such as clock.



Thanks! That's my only PB from 2013, I didn't even notice it wasn't there, that's how much I care for clock 

Ok, I'll try to do day 3 Now.

Day 3, Saturday.

I started the day with 5DNFs and no other results at worlds, I was going to compete in 2x2 (probably just 2 solves), 3x3 and 3BLD so depending on Blind I could end a competition with more DNFs than ok solves, I needed at least to solve one cube blindfolded.

Day started with 2x2 first round, the 6 seconds cut off was a bit harsh, and as I imagined I didn't make it, a 7.xx and a 10.xx, few people made it in the groups I was judging earlier, seems like all of the guys of the same level where grouped there . After 2x2 I wen't upstairs for the last MBLD attempt, everybody in the same room this time, Maskow, Kamil, Mark Boyanowski and Shivam where the biggest attempts and all of them started very well, solving almost every cube in the first 5-10 minutes of solving but in the end Shivam's consistency paid off and he won with equal points as Maskow's second attempt but a few seconds less (also a few less solved cubes, but that's how the event works) I was also keeping an eye on Mark's attempt on 16 cubes, but unluckily only 12 were solved at the end.

Tight staff schedule only allowed me 15 minutes to have lunch as we started 3x3, the main Event, Mark and I were in the same group and both had a crappy round, I was lucky enough to end it with two high 16 that at least allowed me to have a sub 20 average, I would have preferred sub 19 but couldn't do it.

Then came OH in which I didn't qualify and Pyra in which I didn't bother to register, there were quite a few who didn't make the 10 seconds cut off there.

To end the competitive part of the day, we had 3BLD I had tried 3-4 times that morning and the day before and all were DNFs with my memory nowhere to be seen, so I decided to stop trying . First attempt, I reviewed like 1 thousand times, and at least it wasn't DNF but it was too slow. Second attempt was the easiest scramble of our group but I managed to DNF it in 1:4x after a 20 second pause trying to recall, third one was still over reviewed but it went smoother and was my final 2:09, that's a year and a half without sub 2 for me, hope to fix that later this year. Mark got a 1:01 with all the pressure after a double DNF and made it to the second round, I, of course, didn't, but at least I was going to end the competition with more solved cubes than DNFs, yay!

Then we had the awesome nations cup, a bit slow at first (a broken timer helped to make it slow) but very exciting to watch as the rounds went on. Canada (with Bill Wang, Antoine Cantin and Kian Mansour) started very strong and were only bested by the Champions, Germany (The Weyer brothers and Cornelius) on the other side Australia edged USA who also looked favourites. The final was for Germany, pretty exciting to watch and I hope we can see it again in other worlds.

it ended quite late (around 23h) so a very late dinner and some chat with friends prior to the last day of the competition.


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## mark49152 (Jul 25, 2017)

moralsh said:


> 3x3, the main Event, Mark and I were in the same group and both had a crappy round, I was lucky enough to end it with two high 16 that at least allowed me to have a sub 20 average, I would have preferred sub 19 but couldn't do it.


Yeah it was frustratingly crappy! I haven't really improved my official 3x3 results at all in 2 years of competing, and my recent averages just seem to be getting worse. Oh well. Great summary Raul, I enjoyed reading that and am looking forward to day 4.

Anyway here is the final instalment of my BLD adventures at Worlds.


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## I_<3_SCS (Jul 25, 2017)

This is a great thread! You guys sure like each other a lot


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## Jason Green (Jul 26, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> Cool. No idea what time he was born but I'll find out.
> 
> My birthday is 6th June.


My brother is June 4th.


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## Jason Green (Jul 26, 2017)

Guys I'm starting blind!  First question, I'm sure it's been answered 100 times but I'm asking. For Speefz lettering, is it most topical to do yellow on top? Does it matter? Or should you do it Green front white top? Jperm did the latter on his videos. I'm ready with my sharpie!


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## One Wheel (Jul 26, 2017)

Jason Green said:


> Guys I'm starting blind!  First question, I'm sure it's been answered 100 times but I'm asking. For Speefz lettering, is it most topical to do yellow on top? Does it matter? Or should you do it Green front white top? Jperm did the latter on his videos. I'm ready with my sharpie!



I'm hardly an expert, but I'm pretty sure it doesn't matter. I do green front, white top. There might even be a thread about this, on second thought . . . Yep! https://www.speedsolving.com/forum/threads/what-orientation-do-you-use-for-blindsolving.65023/


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## Jason Green (Jul 26, 2017)

One Wheel said:


> I'm hardly an expert, but I'm pretty sure it doesn't matter. I do green front, white top. There might even be a thread about this, on second thought . . . Yep! https://www.speedsolving.com/forum/threads/what-orientation-do-you-use-for-blindsolving.65023/


Thank you that's perfect! I'm going to do yellow on top red front, because that's how I learned CFOP and it's still the easiest for me to think of where the pieces go. It wasn't until my first comp I learned the WCA scramble position.  I always thought badmephistos cheat sheets were the gospel until then. Hahaha


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## h2f (Jul 26, 2017)

Jason Green said:


> Guys I'm starting blind!  First question, I'm sure it's been answered 100 times but I'm asking. For Speefz lettering, is it most topical to do yellow on top? Does it matter? Or should you do it Green front white top? Jperm did the latter on his videos. I'm ready with my sharpie!



Orientation doesnt matter. Order of letters matters.


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## mark49152 (Jul 26, 2017)

@Jason Green, welcome to the dark side


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## moralsh (Jul 26, 2017)

I forgot to add this video to the Day 3 recap:


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## Shaky Hands (Jul 26, 2017)

@moralsh - I didn't realise that BLD solve was going to be a BLD solve, so when I was watching this, I thought "wow, your judge must have forgotten to use the stopwatch properly for inspection!"


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## muchacho (Jul 26, 2017)

Same, probably was over 20 seconds until I thought it might be BLD haha


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## moralsh (Jul 26, 2017)

Shaky Hands said:


> @moralsh - I didn't realise that BLD solve was going to be a BLD solve, so when I was watching this, I thought "wow, your judge must have forgotten to use the stopwatch properly for inspection!"





muchacho said:


> Same, probably was over 20 seconds until I thought it might be BLD haha



you must have been nervous trying to tell me "come on, that white cross is soooo easy!"


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## pglewis (Jul 26, 2017)

Jason Green said:


> Guys I'm starting blind!



Yaaaas!


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## Jason Green (Jul 27, 2017)

I have to say starting BLD has got me more excited about cubing than I have been for a while.  I've been watching quite a few tutorials, Noah's, JPerm, etc. I have the basics down, but I think I'm struggling a bit with how the cycles work especially for edges. Tell me what I have wrong in my understanding please!

- When the piece that shows up in the buffer location is the piece that goes there, you have to start a new cycle (regardless of if the piece is oriented correctly).
- To start a new cycle you pick any PIECE that you have not solved. For corners I saw the suggestion of keeping your fingers on the ones you have solved. Are there tricks for edges? In trying to just write down a solution I found this difficult even. For example if I had solved the F edge, I could not pick L for my new cycle because that is the same piece, correct?
- Once the cycle comes back to the same letter it's done, got that part. Edit#2 - it's actually the same piece not the same letter right?
- What is the maximum number of cycles you would need worst case?

So in writing it down maybe I'm not as confused as I felt, just not good at it yet. 

Below is the scramble and my solution I worked on off and on all day (when I could at work too). I KEPT messing stuff up, but I finally got it and went through it twice and it worked. I'll try again after I post this and probably come back to say it doesn't work.  I scrambled in WCA green front white top, but then I solved red front yellow top. Is it best to just scramble in the orientation I solve in to make it easier to ask for help? I guess you can just do an X2, Y before scrambling if you normally scramble in your own orientation to make it easier to test my solution.

I look forward to hearing everything I'm doing wrong. Please dumb it down as much as possible, I get a bad case of lazy brain sometimes. 

Scramble:
D F2 D L2 U' L2 U' L2 F2 D B2 L' D2 B2 D2 R2 F' D B2 L2 R'

Edges:
FDUPWANHEXCOX

Parity

Corners:
LJBPXFR

Edit: BTW I'm not even working on memo yet until I get the basics, but this would be super easy for me...
FeD UP with the WAN HEX at COX (cox is a hospital back home)

LJ (friend from college) Blood Pressure XFR (transfer... don't know what it means to do a blood pressure transfer but it seems easy to remember)


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## moralsh (Jul 27, 2017)

Scrambling in your orientation is good if you want to share the scramble with someone, if all of us scramble the same scramble each in our orientation it will be easier for us to follow, to me is a lot slower to track the edges with your orientation even though I also use Spefzz.

There's nothing wrong with your edges memo, however you should learn to group by pairs, it will be easier for you to detect parity and having words/images for 2 or 3 targets can get really confusing.

Your corners memo should be GM NK (new cycle FS I) 

And maybe you should ditch de T-Perms and go straight to M2, if not now, do it as soon as you start to get the hang of solving, it's much more efficient and not that hard.


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## mark49152 (Jul 27, 2017)

Awesome that you're getting into BLD, @Jason Green!

I make that corner memo GM NK FS D.

Practising sighted is definitely the right way to go. Don't hinder yourself with a blindfold until you fully understand how your solving method works and can do it sighted easily. Then you could try solving out of sight (like under the table) while reading off the written-down memo, to make sure you've remembered how to do setups and parity without looking, etc. Relying on memory is the final step.

I also agree it's best to go for M2 right away. It's not hard but uses way less moves than OP edges. Learning OP edges is a waste of time.

You are correct about breaking into new cycles. Pick an unsolved piece then you can choose either sticker, usually the easiest one. Then when you hit that piece again, you're done, even if it's a different sticker.

For edges there just aren't enough fingers . It's still helpful to keep fingers on the first few pieces you trace though, IMHO. It makes it easier to trace the remaining few without fingers.


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## JanW (Jul 27, 2017)

JanW said:


> Plan for 2017: Learn full OLL, sub-20 Ao1000, get back into 3bld and mbld, maybe learn 4bld. We'll see about other events if I get inspired to practice them more.


This was my plan end of last year. Full OLL and Sub-20 Ao1000 are done. Next on the list is 3bld, which seems appropriate as everyone else here seems to be working on it as well.

I've dabbled a bit with some blind solves this past week. Accuracy is very low, but there are occasional successes now and then. Most solves end up DNFs by one or two cycles. Execution time tends to be around 1:30, memo anything from 1 to 4 minutes, depending on how many mistakes I make. While I don't need to spend much time figuring out comms for any case, it's apparent that I need to be much more accurate with the execution. Maybe I should finally start using my own BldTrainer, I've heard it's helpful.


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## Selkie (Jul 27, 2017)

@Logiqx - Might as well jump on the exact DOB band wagon - 21st November 1969

@Jason Green - You are even making me motivated to re-start blind and I am a stubborn old man when it comes to blind!

A nice 5x5 PB Ao12 just now:-

Average of 12: 1:53.77


Spoiler



1. 1:59.68 l' d D u2 B r' u' B' u B2 D2 R' L F' b' u r l' F R' B2 L' d2 L2 R' r U B' f b' u2 l' U D u B' b l' U D' B2 U' f r2 f' u2 r2 D2 d' U B' R' b u F' l f2 B2 u' B2 
2. 1:56.55 f' D l2 B' f2 d' f L l2 U' l' U2 r' b2 r l' R' f2 L D' d' L2 f2 L2 d f2 F' R2 U' F2 B' U' r2 l2 B2 f2 U b2 R' l d2 D u U r2 f d2 R2 r2 D' U F' f' R f2 l2 B' d U' b2 
3. 1:57.96 F' d2 R d' u' D2 l U' r' d2 B2 f2 l r b' F2 R' l' b' d' F' b' u U2 d' F L u L u2 l2 f2 d r f2 r2 U r' B2 D2 B2 D B l D L' U2 L2 D F' u' d F' L2 r l2 U f2 l' f 
4. 1:47.37 B D b' d' L f' R2 b' F2 r' R' u2 d f d2 F' B f' u' b2 d' f l L2 D2 d2 u2 f2 D' f L' u b' u' l2 u' B F2 r' D B2 f2 r' f' u' F b u' D2 F' U2 l' d' u' L' U r2 d' r L2 
5. 1:48.46 L l2 b l F2 B2 D' l2 u2 F2 U2 f R2 r' B R f u2 l F2 R2 r' l L u' r' b2 r' B2 U' l' F2 D' U R2 r b F2 l' L R u' L2 f r B' l' u' d D F' b2 f2 r' B' b f' U' u' b2 
6. (2:00.84) F2 R' U' f U' d2 B2 l' F' r' F' D' B' d2 r2 d2 F' B' r L' f r' l' f' b U R F' b' u' R' u d' U R b' r2 b' L d R2 d' D' F2 B l' F2 R' r' F' B' r l2 U r2 f' b L2 f B 
7. 1:54.55 u2 D l L u U' l F B u' U2 L' d2 R2 b' d f2 L2 b2 D2 L' U' d2 r' d2 f L u' d L f R2 r' U B f' R' r2 b2 U2 F D' f2 d2 b' u2 B2 l' U' D' L2 l2 D l2 U' D2 L2 R2 D2 d' 
8. 1:56.74 u' r' B b' D B2 r2 B' U2 l' u2 L2 r F l2 L2 r d' b R' d2 U L2 B2 u' b f' L' U2 b2 l' f2 D2 B U2 f l f' F' b2 r' B' r B' D' L U B u' L2 f2 u l F f' u F2 U2 D' B2 
9. 1:47.19 F R' b B l d' L' R2 B' r B2 r D U' f' L' l2 f2 L' R' U b D u b2 B' U R L' d U2 r2 u d2 F' B2 U2 d B u2 F R f U2 b' U D2 B f b2 L u' D2 R' b L' B U d' r 
10. 1:55.23 F2 U d2 D2 R2 U2 u2 R2 r2 F' b R2 U' d f' B2 l' R' B L l F2 r U R' b' d' b2 L' F' f' b R l' f' R' D r' u' D' l r' U u2 b d' R' D R f2 r' L F2 u' b' R2 u2 L2 r B 
11. (1:46.79) B l' F U2 B2 u R F2 l2 f r2 D f U' r u2 b2 l' B' R2 d L D' B2 U' r u' b2 u R' u r2 B' l2 r f' L D2 F B d' F L' r2 U b' r2 D F' l r2 D2 R f2 u l U d B2 u' 
12. 1:53.99 r' D2 l2 r' f' L' u2 b l2 u' B2 d' L' b2 R r' F2 L b u2 B2 D L' F l L' U2 r' F u' U' R b2 r b f F' B2 r2 L U' b' D2 f' F2 U' R2 D2 b L b2 B U r u2 R f2 r' U' B


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## newtonbase (Jul 27, 2017)

Glad you are excited about 3BLD @Jason Green 
One thing to clarify with cycles which confuses people. If you get to a sticker on the buffer piece then don't solve it. If you get to a sticker on the piece that you started the cycle with then you do solve it. 
Just got a 1:23.28 3BLD which I think is a PB. Will search this thread when I have more time. Must keep better records!


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## Jason Green (Jul 27, 2017)

Thanks for the help @moralsh and @mark49152! Interesting because you seem to use buffer as the U sticker on ULB, but I was using the L sticker on that piece. I noticed in some videos people doing that differently. I will probably start M2 soon. It seems like an easy transition, just some additional trucks for setups and such?


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## mark49152 (Jul 27, 2017)

Using the U sticker will make it easier to discuss with others as that seems most common. It also helps to recognise that B, C and D are just PLL algs.

M2 is easy enough. There is the complication due to displacement of M slice targets, and algs for those, but nothing that should put you off. Noah's tutorial is a good one.


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## pglewis (Jul 27, 2017)

I'll just put in another vote for going straight to M2. I learned it that way from the start and agree there's no point in OP edges when M2 isn't _that_ much harder.

Edit to add that when tracking edge cycles I'll free some fingers up once I've covered all the pieces on a particular face, I can just remember all those are done. Edge cycles are still the hardest part of the mechanics for me.


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## kbrune (Jul 27, 2017)

@Jason Green 
Welcome to the dark side! I also suggest going to M2. Especially if you already understand the setups and buffer position.

I regretted not going to M2 sooner after realizing how much better it was. I was intimidated with the idea that M2 was sooooo much more advanced. But to be honest I learned it way faster then I thought I would. It requires a few more algs but not more then 4-5. And 3 of them are very simple. 

sighted solves witout memo is good. But oddly enough it's a bit easier to execute with your eyes closed. somehow seeing the pieces move around will mess you up sometimes. However it's harder to figure out mistakes early on when you attempt execution with eyes closed. 

Glad you're loving it. It's super fun. I've kinda slacked off on bld recently. I really need to get back at it!


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## newtonbase (Jul 27, 2017)

kbrune said:


> sighted solves witout memo is good. But oddly enough it's a bit easier to execute with your eyes closed. somehow seeing the pieces move around will mess you up sometimes. However it's harder to figure out mistakes early on when you attempt execution with eyes closed.


I use a compromise. I look at the cube, execute a pair with my eyes closed and then check it has worked. It's a good way of practicing comms.


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## Mike Hughey (Jul 27, 2017)

kbrune said:


> sighted solves witout memo is good. But oddly enough it's a bit easier to execute with your eyes closed. somehow seeing the pieces move around will mess you up sometimes. However it's harder to figure out mistakes early on when you attempt execution with eyes closed.



I remember back when I was first competing at big cubes BLD and I had learned commutators, I literally never practiced with eyes open - only with eyes closed. Then when I went to my first competition competing in big BLD and attempted my first solve and got close - off by just a few pieces - I remember how embarrassed I was sitting next to Chris Hardwick and Daniel Beyer and having to close my eyes so I could solve those final pieces. I couldn't do it while looking at the cube!

@Jason Green, so good to see another person going after BLD. And yeah I would go M2 to start. Learning inferior methods doesn't help much with BLD, and I think all those inferior methods I learned first really hold me back.

@Selkie, yes, you need to get into it.  Once you caught the bug, you'd probably get really good at it really fast. Considering the way you've improved at speedsolving, you're probably the type that would be sub-minute in less than a year once you started. 

I have been trying to switch to memorizing corners with images and edges with audio, and have found it a tough thing; I think that may be one thing us oldies have more trouble with than the younger cubers - switching methods is rough! But I'm starting to get the hang of it, and this morning I got my new PB memorizing this way and solving edges first: 1:00.35 (it was admittedly an easy 10/6). So close to sub-minute! I'll get one soon!


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## Mike Hughey (Jul 27, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> I use a compromise. I look at the cube, execute a pair with my eyes closed and then check it has worked. It's a good way of practicing comms.


I used to do drills where I would go alphabetically through my image list and try to solve each commutator - I'd close my eyes, execute the commutator, open my eyes to check, then close my eyes and execute the inverse, then execute the next one, then open my eyes to make sure my previous one was undone correctly and my new one was executed correctly. I'd do time drills to see how fast I could do all the letter-pair images for a given starting letter. It takes a while, but it's really good practice.


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## kbrune (Jul 27, 2017)

Mike Hughey said:


> I have been trying to switch to memorizing corners with images and edges with audio, and have found it a tough thing; I think that may be one thing us oldies have more trouble with than the younger cubers - switching methods is rough! But I'm starting to get the hang of it, and this morning I got my new PB memorizing this way and solving edges first: 1:00.35 (it was admittedly an easy 10/6). So close to sub-minute! I'll get one soon!



Man oh man rough is an understatement!
@Mike Hughey 
Mike I'm currently hovering around 2:30-3:00 for BLD. Do you remember being stuck at any point, feeling like you woudnt be able to get quicker? The consensus seems to be just to push memo speed as far as advice goes. Eventually the memo will speed up they say. Do you agree?


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## pglewis (Jul 27, 2017)

@Mike Hughey: good to see an active oldie in my neighborhood, here's hoping to meet up at a regional comp before too long!


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## Mike Hughey (Jul 27, 2017)

kbrune said:


> Mike I'm currently hovering around 2:30-3:00 for BLD. Do you remember being stuck at any point, feeling like you woudnt be able to get quicker? The consensus seems to be just to push memo speed as far as advice goes. Eventually the memo will speed up they say. Do you agree?



Maybe it will comfort you to know that I originally felt quite stuck at about 4-5 minutes.  Of course, admittedly that was 3OP - that was when I was solving according to Macky (Shotaro Makisumi)'s very early instructions on how to solve BLD.

I've been seemingly stuck several times along the way. When I was practicing at my hardest, I was just starting to get under the 1 minute barrier, with lots of algorithm drills and memorization practice. And it seemed almost impossible to ever go beyond. Now I think that switching to memorizing edges with audio gives me the chance of really getting consistently sub-minute, and I could see myself getting as low as 45 seconds if I can get comfortable with it. Faster than that, I'll have to buckle under and try to catch up to @Selkie with speedsolving; I need to be faster at solving to get much past 45 seconds.

Yes, pushing memo speed seems to be an important part of speeding up. Memorize as fast as you can, then take the time you need to solve it. Try to get the memo speed as low as possible. Practice memorizing in the shortest time you've ever been able to do and see if you can solve it with just that much.

Also, it seems like I would break through most of my barriers when I would learn some new technique. Like I'm hoping switching to audio edges will do!


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## chtiger (Jul 27, 2017)

From a dissenter's point of view, I used OP edges for a long time and don't regret it at all. If I had started with M2, I wouldn't be any faster today, just at my current level earlier, and possibly might be like Selkie and not doing blind at all. And I suck at blind in comps, so doesn't really matter what I use. I think for a beginner, OP edges really is much easier (assuming you're doing OP corners). If you can do and understand OP corners, then you can learn how to do OP edges in about 30 seconds. Practice the setup moves for 5 minutes and you've got it. It took me longer just to learn the algs for M2, than it did to learn OP/OP from scratch and do a successful solve. Plus, the time you save with M2 will mostly be irrelevant until you greatly improve the other aspects of blind. Just don't stick with it as long as I did. (Still not recommending it, just don't understand the hate it gets, ok maybe I am recommending it. Maskow agrees with me at least)


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## chtiger (Jul 27, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> Just got a 1:23.28 3BLD which I think is a PB. Will search this thread when I have more time. Must keep better records!


you beat me, check the PB in my sig


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## Selkie (Jul 27, 2017)

@Mike Hughey - Thank you kind sir. I had a handful of successes > 5 years ago (probably documented in Blindfold Success Thread back in the day) but that was probably 5/200 and I lost confidence. However I have committed to re-learning BLD in time for Weston-super-mare Open, being organised by @Shaky Hands and myself in November so I had better get cracking.

Posted this on FB a few weeks ago but it was pleasure to have a couple of beers with Mats Valk after day 1 of London Open with @Shaky Hands and a couple of others. Had some excellent blue cross advice but only draw back is now I am also a bit motivated to learn some VLS subsets


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## bubbagrub (Jul 27, 2017)

chtiger said:


> From a dissenter's point of view, I used OP edges for a long time and don't regret it at all. If I had started with M2, I wouldn't be any faster today, just at my current level earlier, and possibly might be like Selkie and not doing blind at all. And I suck at blind in comps, so doesn't really matter what I use. I think for a beginner, OP edges really is much easier (assuming you're doing OP corners). If you can do and understand OP corners, then you can learn how to do OP edges in about 30 seconds. Practice the setup moves for 5 minutes and you've got it. It took me longer just to learn the algs for M2, than it did to learn OP/OP from scratch and do a successful solve. Plus, the time you save with M2 will mostly be irrelevant until you greatly improve the other aspects of blind. Just don't stick with it as long as I did. (Still not recommending it, just don't understand the hate it gets, ok maybe I am recommending it. Maskow agrees with me at least)



I agree, although from a position of some ignorance. I've been using full OP for a while, and am still very slow (> 3minutes). I've been trying to learn M2 in the past couple of weeks, and it really does seem to me to be significantly harder to learn than OP. To learn OP edges & corners I had to learn zero algorithms, just pretty simple setup moves. For M2, I need to learn a new parity alg, and algs for S and I, as well as two very simple algorithms for C and W. I think I've reached the point now where I'm ok with all the non-alg set up moves, but still need to learn the 5 new algs, and consistently undoing the set up moves correctly seems a lot harder than it is for OP. So, yes, I accept that M2 is a lot faster than OP, but I do think OP is quite a bit easier to learn.


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## Selkie (Jul 27, 2017)

Mike Hughey said:


> ...Faster than that, I'll have to buckle under and try to catch up to @Selkie with speedsolving; I need to be faster at solving to get much past 45 seconds.



Its great to have the closeness of the older community these days. I have to say I am trying very hard to catch @Ron on various events but it is great to receive encouragement and motivation from him and advice. I'll be pleased to get to sub 15 in competition, it feels like its been a long, long road and in all honesty I'll probably concentrate on 5x5 - 7x7 for a while once I am there. I eventually hit top20 ranking in UK in an event at London Open, Clock. Go figure, since I hardly practice but I would feel like a much better accomplishment to rank top20 at 6x6 or 7x7.


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## newtonbase (Jul 27, 2017)

chtiger said:


> you beat me, check the PB in my sig


Ha ha. Owned 
Thought I was going to beat it again tonight but forgot my last pair. Would have been well under 1:20.
I started with OP edges too as M2 looked a bit too much to learn with the practice time I had available. I then moved on once I was comfortable. 
I find M2 pretty mindless now and use quite a lot of advanced techniques from @mark49152 's thread which I would recommend to anyone as soon as they know the M slice algs. 
@Mike Hughey I'm sure you know what you are doing but I'd still recommend @DeeDubb' s thread on audio pairs.


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## JanW (Jul 27, 2017)

I've never understood why learning something like OP first would do any good. M2 is probably a good place to start.

I know I'm very much in a minority, but I went straight for comms and 3-cycles. Actually, it was seeing a video about how commutators work that got me interested in bld in the first place. Earlier I had watched some (Noah's?) videos on the basics of 3bld, which described OP, but that didn't appeal to me at all. As I saw the video which explained the theory behind commutators, I was very intrigued and started playing around with them. First sighted solves, working out each commutator on the fly, then moving on to bld. Sure it was slow at first to get my head around it, but then progress was really fast. Within 6-8 weeks I was already quite close to the 2 minute mark. Then work got in the way and I didn't solve blind for 6 months or so. However, since I never learned any algorithms, always worked out everything intuitively, there was no problem picking up bld again after the long break. 

My biggest problem is that I've never got around to making a proper word list. I've started many times, but somehow as soon as I start, I lose interest in bld... It's now over 18 months since I first learned bld, but apart from the initial 2 months, I've never practiced it actively for more than maybe a couple of weeks, then several months break before I try it again. I think if I ever could finish and learn a word list, this could help keeping up interest.


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## Mike Hughey (Jul 27, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> @Mike Hughey I'm sure you know what you are doing but I'd still recommend @DeeDubb' s thread on audio pairs.


Having mostly not been around for a while, I hadn't noticed that thread. That might have been useful, except that I essentially worked all that out on my own separately.  Oh well, I did it the hard way. I will still go over it to see if I can get some tricks to help clean up my worst remaining audio pairs - I do still have a few that are not so good.

For reference: https://www.speedsolving.com/forum/...ocus-on-phonetics-rather-than-spelling.51937/


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## kbrune (Jul 27, 2017)

@Mike Hughey 

I was stuck at 4-5 minutes for a long time as well. Until I started talking to the degenerates in this thread! (oops.. autocorrected "amazingly intelligent gentleman" to "degenerates") 

You use M2 and comms for corners? or are you full comms?

@JanW

That's impressive! picking up comms and getting down to 2 min in less then 2 months! Im jealous. I've been casually doing sighted full 3 style solves here and there because it's really fun as you said. coming up with comms on the fly is addicting! But I'm still extremely slow at coming up with comms for it to be worth trying in a solve. Not enough of the process is second nature yet.

I hear you on the letter list! I attempted to complete one 3 times before actually deciding to commit to finishing one. So I finished it and memorized my list with anki. But ended up taking a break from cubing due to life being busy.. and now I can't recall all of my letter pairs. Discouragement is delaying me from going back through my list and re-memorizing.

@Selkie

Pretty cool pic! How did you end up with an opportunity to hang with Mats?


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## kbrune (Jul 27, 2017)

@bubbagrub 

I wouldn't call myself an edge OP hater. But I do think I should have went straight to M2 given my experience learning it. OP is definitely way easier to learn. But I think the fact that it's so easy makes M2 seem so much harder. Matter of taste and opinion I suppose!


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## Mike Hughey (Jul 27, 2017)

kbrune said:


> You use M2 and comms for corners? or are you full comms?


I've been full comms for many years now. But some of my comms are pretty bad - there's definitely room for improvement there. I learned corner comms first and used M2 to transition to comms for edges.

As for M2 being difficult to understand, I can certainly empathize. I had real trouble understanding it at first and didn't learn it for a while. Then I started doing r2 for 4x4x4 BLD, and all of a sudden M2 made more sense. I felt M2 was very confusing until I could look at it with the stickers actually being separate pieces, as they are on 4x4x4. So maybe if you're having trouble understanding M2 on 3x3x3, try r2 on 4x4x4. (You don't have to go for learning all of 4x4x4 BLD to take advantage of this - just learn how r2 works for wings on 4x4x4.) Then you may find as I did that M2 suddenly makes lots of sense.


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## mark49152 (Jul 27, 2017)

Come on, guys! M2 is really just two relatively easy 11-move algs, for S and I targets. C and W are too trivial to count. Parity is just learning another setup. No way can alg learning effort be used as an excuse . The effort to learn these is really minor compared to the effort to learn BLD concepts, a letter scheme, memo techniques, etc.

The hardest thing to get used to in M2 is the odd/even target thing, not the algs, and it makes sense after a little practice.

You'll have M2 down in no time @bubbagrub and will wonder why you didn't do it earlier .

Of course OP is fine for those who really are just looking to get started in BLD with absolute minimal effort, but M2 is only a little more effort, for much greater benefits later.


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## One Wheel (Jul 27, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> Of course OP is fine for those who really are just looking to get started in BLD with absolute minimal effort, but M2 is only a little more effort, for much greater benefits later.



I still haven't finished learning M2, but I will say that I should have started with it instead of OP.


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## JanW (Jul 27, 2017)

kbrune said:


> That's impressive! picking up comms and getting down to 2 min in less then 2 months! Im jealous. I've been casually doing sighted full 3 style solves here and there because it's really fun as you said. coming up with comms on the fly is addicting! But I'm still extremely slow at coming up with comms for it to be worth trying in a solve. Not enough of the process is second nature yet.


While I'm using comms to solve the cube, I'm still very far from what the pros would call using full comms. As I haven't learned any algorithms, I'm sure most of my comms are far from speed optimal. Actually, after a while I noticed how I settled down using only a quite restricted version of comms. With UFR as my corner buffer, I always make the 2 targets interchangeable on the B, D or L layer (mostly doable in 1 move, sometimes takes 2), then I know how to insert from UFR to all stickers on the UBR, UFL and DFR corner pieces. That's really all that is needed.

Only recently did I notice that some good lists of comms for UFR buffer are now available. There are some cases that are really bad with my current system. I might try to memorize new algs for those.


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## Jason Green (Jul 27, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> Glad you are excited about 3BLD @Jason Green
> One thing to clarify with cycles which confuses people. If you get to a sticker on the buffer piece then don't solve it. If you get to a sticker on the piece that you started the cycle with then you do solve it.
> Just got a 1:23.28 3BLD which I think is a PB. Will search this thread when I have more time. Must keep better records!


Thanks! The sticker you get to on the same piece you started could be the same sticker or a different one, either way it ends the cycle, correct? It's starting to sink in. 



Mike Hughey said:


> (it was admittedly an easy 10/6). So close to sub-minute! I'll get one soon!


This means you had 10 edges and 6 corners to memo, therefore no parity right? Haha, just want to make sure I'm learning blind speak correctly. I guess no more skimming through the blind posts like I usually do, it will make keeping up with the thread a little harder, you blinders talk a lot! (and I can tell I'm already starting to follow suit) 



pglewis said:


> Edit to add that when tracking edge cycles I'll free some fingers up once I've covered all the pieces on a particular face, I can just remember all those are done. Edge cycles are still the hardest part of the mechanics for me.


Great tip on freeing fingers when a face is done, that's the kind of obvious thing I needed someone to point out to me!

As far as M2/OP, I really "know" OP already, even though I am not doing memo or anything. I'll probably do some more written solutions like that and then start learning M2 soon, likely before I do any actual blind attempts I'm not sure yet. Problem with me sometimes is you can give me all the good evidence and reasoning in the world, and in the end I do whatever I feel like... not always a great quality to have.


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## chtiger (Jul 27, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> Come on, guys! M2 is really just two relatively easy 11-move algs, for S and I targets. C and W are too trivial to count. Parity is just learning another setup. No way can alg learning effort be used as an excuse . The effort to learn these is really minor compared to the effort to learn BLD concepts, a letter scheme, memo techniques, etc.


There's also BU, which might as well be an alg since it's a 6 move setup (13 moves total). Learning two long algs is ok, but three is where I draw the line. Kidding of course. Like Mike Hughey, it was 4BLD that pushed me over the edge to do M2 for 3BLD. I think everybody should just start with 4BLD, it's not that much harder than 3BLD


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## JanW (Jul 27, 2017)

Jason Green said:


> Thanks! The sticker you get to on the same piece you started could be the same sticker or a different one, either way it ends the cycle, correct? It's starting to sink in.


Yes. Whenever you hit any sticker on your buffer piece, you start a new cycle. And when you start a new cycle, you start by putting the buffer piece in the first slot of that cycle. So when you hit that piece again, you hit your buffer and should start a new cycle again (unless everything is memorized already, of course).


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## mark49152 (Jul 27, 2017)

chtiger said:


> There's also BU, which might as well be an alg since it's a 6 move setup (13 moves total).


True, but the setup is pretty intuitive. Or you can solve Q (BU) as A (UB) then flip that piece and the buffer: (U M')3 U M (U M')4. That might actually be easier to learn than the setup.


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## kbrune (Jul 27, 2017)

bubbagrub said:


> Problem with me sometimes is you can give me all the good evidence and reasoning in the world, and in the end I do whatever I feel like... not always a great quality to have.



I know what you mean. No matter how many times I've heard the advide to do slow turning solves. I never end up doing it. I'll do 2 solves slowly and I'm back pretending my look ahead is better then Feliks'.


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## pglewis (Jul 28, 2017)

I'd guess OP edges would be roughly the same difficulty as OP corners, and M2 was ~2-3x the work of OP corners for me. But I had the basics of OP corner mechanics down in a day, so 2-3 days to get comfortable with M2 for sighted solves in my case.

Q is longish as far as setup but I've always just visualized it as moving Q to V and then swapping from there, so at least there's no memorization cost for it. With C/W being short, I/S are really the only ones that initially gave me much trouble, and of course grasping the target reverse for C/I/S/W on even targets.

BTW: I still don't quite grok why Q never needs a separate alg for even targets.


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## moralsh (Jul 28, 2017)

I learned OP like a month before my first comp (in 2013) and had 3 DNFs there around the 10 minute mark, two of them by just a twisted edge and the buffer. I learned M2 in that same comp and had my first success 7 months later at my next comp.

If any of you is afraid of BU, BD and FU, there are several ways to avoid it:
1) What I first used: just use UB, DB and UF and keep track of which of them are twisted to fix it in the end, you either have to twist 2 edges or four edges, very easy to do using one of the algs to twist 2 edges (M' U)*4 U (M' U)*4
2) set it up to another edge, if you have a BU -> LF Cycle you can do U (execute RU and LF) U'. The drawback to this method is that you have to understand that if the setup affect the other target, you have to keep track of where it goes, so it's easier to just do a setup that doesn't affect it. If you try to understand comms theory is very easy, if not it might be a bit complicated

I'd still go for learning the 3 algs or at least the BU and FU ones, as you can always execute BD rotating the cube to make it FU


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## AlphaSheep (Jul 28, 2017)

I didn't bother learning the algs fire the FU and BD targets (I and S in my letter scheme). I read @mark49152's Advanced M2 thread before I even learned M2 (I used TuRBo before) and the trick that seemed easiest for me is the M method from a post by @Ollie. Its really just using an edge comm to solve pairs, but it's an easier way of thinking about them that makes so much sense to me. I actually found it easier to treat BD and FU targets that way right from the start than to learn the more common M2 algs.

The only tricky case is when I get SI or IS as my letter pair. The easy to handle these cases is to do U' to set up then solve as if the pair was SM or MS.


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## mark49152 (Jul 28, 2017)

pglewis said:


> BTW: I still don't quite grok why Q never needs a separate alg for odd targets.


Yeah that is a good question. Initially I also wondered this, given that the M slice is 180 degrees out on each even target. Then I realised, *this is not true*! The M slice is not 180 degrees out. Only the UF and DB pieces are swapped (and the centres of course, but we don't think about those). The UB and DF pieces don't get swapped and therefore it's unhelpful and confusing to think of the M slice as being 180 degrees out. It becomes easier if you try to forget that idea and think of it simply as UF and DB being swapped around when on an even target.

Also as @AlphaSheep says, with tricks S (BD) and I (FU) end up actually being the easiest targets to solve. Nevertheless you still need to fall back on the algs to solve them in the worst case, so my advice is to keep it simple and learn to solve with M2 one piece at a time with the algs before moving on to things like two-piece tricks, setting up to other cases, and other more advanced tricks.


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## Selkie (Jul 28, 2017)

@kbrune - Ron van Bruchem suggested I try and catch up with Mats as he was aware we were both attending London Open. I met him earlier in the day but it was just fortuitous that Andy ( @Shaky Hands ) and I wanted another beer after having dinner with a group of about 30 cubers and Mats and a couple of others wanted one too. The 5 of us sat outside the bar had a few drinks and did some team solves and example crosses and chatted for a few hours. Really nice guy


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## muchacho (Jul 28, 2017)

This Tuesday somehow (by somehow I mean by luck, I've been doing very little 2x2 for a long time) I managed to get a sub-6.5 average in the race to sub-x in 2x2, so I've decided to practice and try to finally graduate at sub-6.5. It took me almost 700 solves but I'm back to my fastest times, even a bit better, Mo100 PB: 6.256 (old was 6.486 from September).


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## Shaky Hands (Jul 28, 2017)

Selkie said:


> @kbrune - Ron van Bruchem suggested I try and catch up with Mats as he was aware we were both attending London Open. I met him earlier in the day but it was just fortuitous that Andy ( @Shaky Hands ) and I wanted another beer after having dinner with a group of about 30 cubers and Mats and a couple of others wanted one too. The 5 of us sat outside the bar had a few drinks and did some team solves and example crosses and chatted for a few hours. Really nice guy



Yeah, that night was the first of 4 nights' drinking in a row for me on that London trip before Worlds. I didn't get back to the hotel before 01:00 throughout that trip! Mats was awesome. And on a separate note, it was good that I got an opportunity to meet Ron at Worlds.


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## Selkie (Jul 28, 2017)

I don't know where all the 5x5 improvement has come from, surely it isn't all down to the WuShuang M. I 'think' I might be sub 1:55 globally now, about 8 seconds improvement in 10 days. A new 1:52.xy PB Ao12 and just had a PB single of 1:38.05


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## Mike Hughey (Jul 28, 2017)

Starting to get more consistent with audio edge memo.

average of 12: 1:48.29 (σ = 11.85)
1) 1:44.98 [45.42] L' U2 R' F2 R' D2 L' F2 L D2 L' B R2 U' R' B' D' F D B' Fw
2) 1:29.17 [48.38] U2 F2 B' D2 L U L2 U' F U D2 F2 L2 U R2 U' R2 U R2 U2
3) 1:58.81 [58.74] B U R' B' D' F' B L' D R' U' B2 D' L2 F2 D B2 U D2 B2 L2 Uw Fw
4) 1:46.29 [56.48] D U L2 B2 U B2 D2 F2 U' F2 U2 B' D' R B' D' F2 L2 F' U2 Lw'
5) 1:53.88 [42.82] L D' F' R2 L D R' D R2 B' U2 B2 R B2 D2 F2 R U2 R' B2
6) 1:49.97 [39.17] F2 D F2 D B2 U2 R2 F2 U' R2 B2 R' U' B U2 R2 D L' B' D B2 Uw
7) DNF (2:43.47 [1:40.29]) F L U' F2 B2 U2 L' U F R' B2 R2 L2 B' U2 F U2 R2 F' R2 D2 Fw
8) 1:59.19 [1:10.83] L2 R2 B' L2 F R2 F' R2 F' D2 B2 R' D L B D' U' R' D' B R2 Rw'
9) 1:18.25 [35.70] R2 U R2 D F2 R2 B2 D2 B2 F U2 L R' B' R D' R B2 U2 L2 Bw'
10) 1:31.94 [48.76] U2 F2 L B2 R' U2 B2 U2 L' R2 B2 D' B' D2 R' U' F D R F' R2 Bw2
11) 1:42.51 [52.05] F2 B' L D F R D' L2 F U' R D2 L2 B2 R L2 F2 L D2 R2 Uw'
12) 2:06.16 [1:10.99] R2 U2 L2 U F' U F' U' R2 D2 F2 R2 D2 R B2 R2 D2 L D2 Rw'

Still a long way to go, but it's improving fast.


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## newtonbase (Jul 28, 2017)

AlphaSheep said:


> The only tricky case is when I get SI or IS as my letter pair. The easy to handle these cases is to do U' to set up then solve as if the pair was SM or MS.


I do an x rotation then solve as AI or IA which is quicker but you still need an alg. 



mark49152 said:


> Yeah that is a good question. Initially I also wondered this, given that the M slice is 180 degrees out on each even target. Then I realised, *this is not true*! The M slice is not 180 degrees out. Only the UF and DB pieces are swapped (and the centres of course, but we don't think about those). The UB and DF pieces don't get swapped and therefore it's unhelpful and confusing to think of the M slice as being 180 degrees out. It becomes easier if you try to forget that idea and think of it simply as UF and DB being swapped around when on an even target.


I still don't understand it. Like gravity and women.


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## h2f (Jul 28, 2017)

@Mike Hughey, what was the blindfold method before Stefan Pochamann discovered OP and M2? My question is connected with Matyas Kuti's case - I wonder how it was possible that he cheated? What method was he using or saying that he's using? Searching through the forum is a little bit hard.


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## newtonbase (Jul 28, 2017)

h2f said:


> @Mike Hughey, what was the blindfold method before Stefan Pochamann discovered OP and Turbo? My question is connected with Matyas Kuti's case - I wonder how it was possible that he cheated? What method was he using or saying that he's using? Searching through the forum is a little bit hard.


I've read an old thread on this and I think he was meant to be using his own secret method.


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## h2f (Jul 28, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> I've read an old thread on this and I think he was meant to be using his own secret method.



I heard so. But Mark mentiond Shiotaro and his method so I was wondering if it was something similiar.


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## Mike Hughey (Jul 28, 2017)

h2f said:


> @Mike Hughey, what was the blindfold method before Stefan Pochamann discovered OP and M2? My question is connected with Matyas Kuti's case - I wonder how it was possible that he cheated? What method was he using or saying that he's using? Searching through the forum is a little bit hard.


I think OP was really the first method anyone used. Unless you count speedBLD (where you work out a speedsolve by staring at the cube and working it out for a really long time, then do a speedsolve as fast as you can). Or there's Guimond's method, whatever that was, but I suspect it was likely OP as well.

Mátyás clearly understood OP and M2 and straight comms. He knew how to do a normal BLD solve, and I believe he was probably very good at doing freestyle BLD solves. But he clearly did some things during some official solves on video that were not possible with any reasonable method - things that would have only made sense if he were peeking through the blindfold. And that would have been quite easy to do with just a quick peek or two. So we can't trust his official solves. But I still suspect he was very good at BLD.


----------



## Mike Hughey (Jul 28, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> I've read an old thread on this and I think he was meant to be using his own secret method.


I really don't think there's much to this. Perhaps he had a slightly improved freestyle method (which probably wouldn't be considered all that good today), but it in no way was capable of explaining the strange moves he was recorded doing on one of his 5x5x5 BLD solves.


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## h2f (Jul 28, 2017)

Mike Hughey said:


> But he clearly did some things during some official solves on video that were not possible with any reasonable method - things that would have only made sense if he were peeking through the blindfold.



I was watching his solves on yt and it's quite clear that he's doing very strange things.


----------



## moralsh (Jul 28, 2017)

Got to finish this before leaving for holidays tomorrow, so...

Day 4, final day of worlds:

No second rounds for me, no scrambling duties, just judging and/or running on a quite light schedule so there I was, relaxed and just enjoying myself.

after some judging on 4x4 and 3x3 I spent my free hour scrambling the rest of the 3x3 second round and judging pyra and skewb, none of which I was supposed to do, but some of the staff were a bit elusive (none of the regulars here, of course) at least I saw some awesome solves by Jules Desjardin (ER on that second round) and Drew Brads who is just awesome to watch solving on close range.

I also was amazed how many people from not the top groups was doing sub 7 and sub 8 like if it was something normal.

Then I also judged 3x3 semifinal for the top group, getting top motivation to practice the event.

After that, lunch time was the scheduled time for the oldies photo, so I went to the UK table, finally met Ben (and his son) and met Brest, already had met @newtonbase a while earlier. While we were waiting for everybody to show up, @Shaky Hands just stopped Feliks to ask about his dad (I bet that's not what usually people stop Feliks for) but unluckily he didn't made it to the photo. After making the first photo, we just waited to @bubbagrub to leave to make us another photo with Ernö Rubik . Nice photo and nice chat before and after, we've got to do this again.

Some more judging and then went to watch Pyraminx and 3BLD finals. It was awesome to watch a WR in Pyra, if Drew Brads inspection is short, it's a high 1 or low 2, so after the fist 3 (1.50, 1.72, 2.26) everybody was looking. Inspection was long and the solve was a 3.21 (which in almost every other hands, it's considered fast), but in the last solve, inspection was fast and... bang 2.17. As I said, awesome to watch.

Blind finals were strange because there were no clear favourite other than Adam Barta (who won the previous 2 rounds) and he DNFed. The two resurrected Poles (Jalocha and Kowalzcyk both podiumed with WR Mean holder Ishaan Agrawal between them.

After that, I was judging on the 3 last finals previous to 3x3 on the top 10 group, I tried to get one of the center spots but Clement Cherblanc was faster  .

On 4x4 I judged Max Park who started a bit slow but got better in every solve to claim 4th place in the end. Winner was Sebastian Weyer in the next table.

On OH I judged Feliks, who again started slow but gave us the best OH solve (8.93) of the championship to claim second, winner was Max Park (with a World Record) on the next table 

On 2x2 I judged Kian Mansour who ranked eleven, winner Antonie Petarakis was 2 tables next to me, but second placed Chris Olson was just behind me.

And then we al watched the Finals, very exciting to watch as it seemed almost anybody could end winning.

But Max Park was the man, Huge congrats to him.

Then we saw how Uwe Meffert podiumed every category always telling the guy who won something about the puzzle he was giving.

And then came goodbyes, some photos, and a little bit of tourism. Au revoir Paris, it was an amazing experience!


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## mark49152 (Jul 28, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> I still don't understand it. Like gravity and women.


Gravity's simple enough, it's just curvature in the spacetime continuum.


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## newtonbase (Jul 28, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> Gravity's simple enough, it's just curvature in the spacetime continuum.


...and women?


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## mafergut (Jul 28, 2017)

Hi guys! It's been like 3 weeks since I last posted anything but I've skimmed through all the pages. Lots of good stuff about London Open, Worlds, pics with Erno Rubik, Mats Valk... wow! I'm really envious. Also lots of interest in BLD.

Regarding myself not much to say. Little to no practise but still trying to avoid forgetting any algs. This week I managed to do some 4x4 and, after like a little bit less than 100 solves I'm back to my best times from before. Didn't get any PB's nor any new sub-1min solves but got lots of sub 1:05s and several of them with OLL parity or PLL parity which would have been sub minute without. Do you think it would be worth for me to get a WuQue M, even though I barely practise now? There are a couple of Spanish cubers that make them now (and WuShuang M as well) and at a reasonable price.

And continuing with my non-WCA collection, I just ordered the new 2x2x3 cuboid by QiYi, a LanLan Master Skewb, one of the Dayan Bermudas (Venus, I think), a Witeden Super Crazy 3x3x3 and a Witeden Mixup Plus 3x3x3. Oh, and the new RSC / GAN Paris Worlds edition as well.


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## Selkie (Jul 28, 2017)

All this talk of BLD and the great motivation from you guys...

... I've only gone and registered for BLD at Guildford Open in 2 months time. Better get cracking!!


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## mark49152 (Jul 28, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> ...and women?


Can't help you with that I'm afraid.

@Selkie, welcome to the BLD club. You'll be ready for Guildford no problem! 

Tried my first 20 cube MBLD attempt today. 19/20 in 1h14. Pleased with the accuracy although obviously I have a long way to go to get my time within an hour.


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## newtonbase (Jul 28, 2017)

Selkie said:


> All this talk of BLD and the great motivation from you guys...
> 
> ... I've only gone and registered for BLD at Guildford Open in 2 months time. Better get cracking!!


Plenty of time to get match fit. Maybe you and @Jason Green could have a thread race?


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## moralsh (Jul 28, 2017)

mafergut said:


> Do you think it would be worth for me to get a WuQue M, even though I barely practise now? There are a couple of Spanish cubers that make them now (and WuShuang M as well) and at a reasonable price.



We shared rooms with those 2 guys and I must say I tried their whole repertoire (2-7, although they only sell 4-5 right now) and they are all awesome. I gave them my 5x5 at worlds and received it yesterday, 10 seconds drop in times. Probably will get a Wuque also


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## kbrune (Jul 28, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> @Selkie, welcome to the BLD club. You'll be ready for Guildford no problem!
> 
> .




Did you tell him about the membership fee yet? payable to all existing members of the BLD club. 

Good job on your 19/20! gives me hope I may get there one day!


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## newtonbase (Jul 28, 2017)

kbrune said:


> Did you tell him about the membership fee yet? payable to all existing members of the BLD club.


The fees rise as the times drop.


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## kbrune (Jul 28, 2017)

Just hit a BLD PB of 2:04.94! 12 edge and 8 corner. wooo!!

Can't wait till I can switch to corner comms


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## newtonbase (Jul 28, 2017)

kbrune said:


> Just hit a BLD PB of 2:04.94! 12 edge and 8 corner. wooo!!
> 
> Can't wait till I can switch to corner comms


Well done. Sub 2 is looming. 

My 3 solves while waiting at the car wash today were 2:50(!), 1:25 and 2:01.


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## Selkie (Jul 29, 2017)

OK so a few hours of BLD planning this evening. Some initial thoughts...

Method - I used OP for both corners and edges for my very few successes over 5 years ago. Whilst OP for corners is obviously the way to go initially (though I know a lot of corner comms from FMC) the question over edges is not so clear. For OP edges I know all setups to the extent they are almost subconscious and feel very confident with the execution, but... I am considering whether it would be better to take the plunge and start my new blind chapter with M2. It will obviously take a little longer to gain the understanding of the M slice algs and the swap targets for 2nd letter but surely better to take that hit initially?

Memo - I think this was the Achilles heel in my solves back in the day. I used a PAO (PERSON doing an ACTION with an OBJECT) system previously but this is obviously a three target per image system and as such is a lot harder to judge parity etc. I toyed with and even started creating a letter pair list on a number of occasions but never finished.

I have watched Noah's tutorial series and JPerms, any others of note?

Any advice very welcome


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## Selkie (Jul 29, 2017)

@moralsh - Really enjoyed your day by day worlds review, so gutted to have missed it since I originally was going and had even bought tickets but posts like yours an the excellent live video feed at least allowed me to enjoy from afar. Enjoy your holiday 

A PB for 2x2-7x7 Relay. One of my cubing life goals is a sub 10m which is very ambitious but I really enjoy this unofficial event which really tests ability across all n-order cubes:-

2x2-7x7: 12:28.43

Unfortunately not on film but splits were:- 2x2+3x3 in sub 20, 4x4 done sub 1:15, 5x5 done at 3:10 and 6x6 at about 6:40


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## Jason Green (Jul 29, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> ...and women?


Same answer...



Selkie said:


> All this talk of BLD and the great motivation from you guys...
> 
> ... I've only gone and registered for BLD at Guildford Open in 2 months time. Better get cracking!!


I'm going to register for blind tomorrow for a local comp in about a month. I don't know if I'll actually compete at the event, we will see. 



newtonbase said:


> Plenty of time to get match fit. Maybe you and @Jason Green could have a thread race?


He's way faster than me, plus he's done blind before, sure why not.  I can clearly see accuracy in memo is going to be my big issue. I worked on corner only memo off and on at work today and I'm horrible at it, it's like I've never seen my color scheme... Kind of like me trying to do a CN solve. Remembering the letters and execution seem less troubling. In fact last night I took my second solve I wrote down on paper and was able to execute it with eyes closed. That was fun!

Last night I got an email from a local paper interested in doing an article on cubing in my city. After talking with him and mentioning Jeff Park that is from this area, he said the person needs to be directly tied to Fort Worth. So long story short he is interested in doing an article on ME being an older cuber in a mostly kids sport.  Will let everyone know how that goes.


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## newtonbase (Jul 29, 2017)

Selkie said:


> OK so a few hours of BLD planning this evening. Some initial thoughts...
> 
> Method - I used OP for both corners and edges for my very few successes over 5 years ago. Whilst OP for corners is obviously the way to go initially (though I know a lot of corner comms from FMC) the question over edges is not so clear. For OP edges I know all setups to the extent they are almost subconscious and feel very confident with the execution, but... I am considering whether it would be better to take the plunge and start my new blind chapter with M2. It will obviously take a little longer to gain the understanding of the M slice algs and the swap targets for 2nd letter but surely better to take that hit initially?
> 
> ...


Go for M2.
PAO can still be used with pairs, just use 2 letters for each.
Zane and Speedcubereview are well known resources.


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## pglewis (Jul 29, 2017)

Selkie said:


> It will obviously take a little longer to gain the understanding of the M slice algs and the swap targets for 2nd letter but surely better to take that hit initially?



You'll see opinions from both sides in the past couple pages from the same topic for Jason. I'm on the M2 side and for reasons I can't explain I enjoy M2 execution more than doing corners in my solves. 



Selkie said:


> I think this was the Achilles heel in my solves back in the day. I used a PAO (PERSON doing an ACTION with an OBJECT) system previously but this is obviously a three target per image system and as such is a lot harder to judge parity etc. I toyed with and even started creating a letter pair list on a number of occasions but never finished.



I've probably spent three times as much time filling in my spreadsheet as I have actual blind practice. The biggest time-sink for me during memo is conjuring good images quickly, without those stalls I could probably be well under 5 mins. I collect as many good images as I can for a pair, not just one or two. Where possible I like to have a few people, a place or two, and various objects; I like to include actions but I haven't had great luck collecting many. 

A couple things I do may or may not be good practice. I always memo a letter pair, so when there is parity I just double the dangling letter (F = FF = Fred Flintstone), I just found I have an easier time that way for some reason. I suspect this might present a conflict if/when I move to higher order cubes blind, I haven't looked into the systems there yet. For pairs starting with X or Q I usually just use excited/quarrelsome animals (eXcited Alligator, Quarrelsome Hamster). On the plus side, it quickly fills-in two entire troublesome columns of the matrix from hell. On the minus side, these occur frequently enough that there's a higher risk of confusion for mbld or several successive 3bld. 

The spreadsheet still has lots of holes but it's getting there.


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## Jason Green (Jul 29, 2017)

It seems like M2 vs OP just changes your buffer position and how you execute (I understand M2 has algs to execute some cases). Am I missing something? The reason I'm doing OP at the moment is because as I mentioned tracing through a solve and getting the memo right is by far the big challenge for me. I really was more trying to see if I understood the concepts but I'm almost to the point I could do a solve (well I could if I could get a memo right all the way).

I'm practicing corner and edge memo separate and then trying to execute and see what mistakes I'm making. Any hints on knowing how many letters you should have? I know corners and edges are odd or even together. I did an edge memo a bit ago and had 10 letters with no cycle breaks, I should have known I was missing at least one edge since none were solved. In fact the last edge was flipped in place so I had to target one side then the other (is that called 2 cycle?).


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## JanW (Jul 29, 2017)

Jason Green said:


> In fact the last edge was flipped in place so I had to target one side then the other (is that called 2 cycle?).


I really recommend learning some algs for flipping edges. There are some very easy ones, like (M' U)x3 M' U2 (M' U)x3 M'.


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## newtonbase (Jul 29, 2017)

pglewis said:


> I've probably spent three times as much time filling in my spreadsheet as I have actual blind practice.


Well worth it in the long run. Memo is much more important than execution until you start getting quick. 



pglewis said:


> A couple things I do may or may not be good practice. I always memo a letter pair, so when there is parity I just double the dangling letter (F = FF = Fred Flintstone), I just found I have an easier time that way for some reason.


I always use a single word for those eg fluff, Dad, pop etc. There's 2 options for each edge so they're easy to find. 



Jason Green said:


> It seems like M2 vs OP just changes your buffer position and how you execute (I understand M2 has algs to execute some cases). Am I missing something?


That's pretty much it but of course your swapping alg is much shorter in M2. Advanced M2 has some nice shortcuts too that you won't get with OP. 



Jason Green said:


> Any hints on knowing how many letters you should have?


For edges start with 11 (which is 12 edges less the buffer). Add 1 for each cycle break, also add 1 for each flipped edge if you are solving them by shooting to both stickers then subtract 1 for each piece that's already solved. If the number matches the number of letters you have in your memo you are laughing. It's the same for corners but start with 7.


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## Jason Green (Jul 29, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> Well worth it in the long run. Memo is much more important than execution until you start getting quick.
> 
> 
> I always use a single word for those eg fluff, Dad, pop etc. There's 2 options for each edge so they're easy to find.
> ...


Thanks! I figured it might be straight forward like that but wasn't sure. I had never seen it mentioned, of course as I said I've skimmed a lot of the blind posts on here in the past.  Funny but to me that would be one of the early things I explain to someone. To me it's like ok here's this process to do something, and next a way to double check you did it right.


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## newtonbase (Jul 29, 2017)

Jason Green said:


> Thanks! I figured it might be straight forward like that but wasn't sure. I had never seen it mentioned, of course as I said I've skimmed a lot of the blind posts on here in the past.  Funny but to me that would be one of the early things I explain to someone. To me it's like ok here's this process to do something, and next a way to double check you did it right.


You will come across it written as a formula occasionally. I think the reason you don't see it more is that you still need a way of knowing which ones you haven't done and if you mark them with your fingers you then don't need the formula. It's a nice double check though.


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## JanW (Jul 29, 2017)

Relearning 3bld seems to be going pretty well so far. Just got a sub-3 success (2:53) and a 2:21 off by one edge cycle. Apparently I did the right cycle, but in the wrong direction. This happens with some cases, I must review these carefully. The 2:21 scramble was kind of an oddity, though. Only one corner cycle and 4 twisted corners.


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## bubbagrub (Jul 29, 2017)

OK -- I feel like I'm making some progress with M2 now. I have a couple of questions:

Is there any logic to the S / I algorithms? I get how Q works, and C and W are simple enough to remember, but S and I are currently a mystery to me. I'd prefer to understand them than just to blindly memorize them.
When you hit C second in a pair, do you memo it as C or W?
Thanks!


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## newtonbase (Jul 29, 2017)

bubbagrub said:


> OK -- I feel like I'm making some progress with M2 now. I have a couple of questions:
> 
> Is there any logic to the S / I algorithms? I get how Q works, and C and W are simple enough to remember, but S and I are currently a mystery to me. I'd prefer to understand them than just to blindly memorize them.
> When you hit C second in a pair, do you memo it as C or W?
> Thanks!


1. I'll leave this to better minds. 
2. It's up to you. I stick with the correct letter and rely on their position in the pair to know how to solve. If you switch the letter in memo there is less thinking but you may find it a little harder to track what stickers you have already covered.


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## mark49152 (Jul 29, 2017)

I breaks down like this: [D: [M', U R2 U']] M2 

It's actually a setup to a comm that solves I then A. Then since you want to solve only I, the M2 unsolves A.

S is the inverse.


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## newtonbase (Jul 29, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> I breaks down like this: [D: [M', U R2 U']] M2
> 
> It's actually a setup to a comm that solves I then A. Then since you want to solve only I, the M2 unsolves A.
> 
> S is the inverse.


Like I said "Better minds".


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## pglewis (Jul 29, 2017)

mafergut said:


> Regarding myself not much to say. Little to no practise but still trying to avoid forgetting any algs. This week I managed to do some 4x4 and, after like a little bit less than 100 solves I'm back to my best times from before. Didn't get any PB's nor any new sub-1min solves but got lots of sub 1:05s and several of them with OLL parity or PLL parity which would have been sub minute without.



Glad to see you check-in and glad you're able to get enough maintenance solves to keep in shape. I've been in another busy period without much practice time for the past couple weeks too. Hope all is going well besides those 100 solves! 



bubbagrub said:


> OK -- I feel like I'm making some progress with M2 now. I have a couple of questions:
> 
> Is there any logic to the S / I algorithms? I get how Q works, and C and W are simple enough to remember, but S and I are currently a mystery to me. I'd prefer to understand them than just to blindly memorize them.
> When you hit C second in a pair, do you memo it as C or W?
> Thanks!



1) That's basically where I am. At some point I also traced the parity alg so it's intuitive for me as well. I still accept I/S as magic and just commit 'em to memory, but at some point I want to sit down and physically trace through it on the cube. It's not all that hard, I'm just lazy. 

2) I memo the actual sticker and reverse it in execution; I know Mark, notably, reverses in memo. I may eventually decide to go the other way so execution can just be go-go-go with less thinking but I think this is an area I can personally readjust to without too much fuss if it becomes a bottleneck.


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## JanW (Jul 29, 2017)

First sub-15 single with other than white cross:

14.56 D2 L' U B' L2 D2 B2 R F U L2 F2 L2 U F2 U L2 U B2 D

y2 // inspection
U' L2 U2 R2 D' R' U' R' // xxcross
U L U L' // F2L-3
d' R U R' // F2L-4
U F R' F R2 U' R' U' R U R' F2 // OLL
U R U R' F' R U R' U' R' F R2 U' R' U2 // PLL (Jb) & AUF

Yellow cross is determined by the first move in the scramble (D). I saw I could make an xcross halfway through solving the cross by doing R' U' R' instead of R2 at the end. The other F2L pair solved during cross was purely accidental.

Anyway, with F2L done in 16 moves and a J-perm, the solve should be much faster than this. Yellow cross is still clearly slower than white.

Edit: after making the reconstruction I tried solving the same solve again with the same solution. It took me 6-7 attempts, then finally I got it down to sub-10. Holy badger it requires some fast movement to even get this 43 mover done in <10 seconds. How people can consistently solve in that time is beyond me...


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## Jason Green (Jul 29, 2017)

First full attempt, memo G for last edge and should've been X. I guess I got too excited I actually worked out all the pieces.  Somewhere around 24 minutes.


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## mark49152 (Jul 29, 2017)

Nice job @Jason Green for a first attempt!


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## newtonbase (Jul 29, 2017)

Jason Green said:


> First full attempt, memo G for last edge and should've been X. I guess I got too excited I actually worked out all the pieces.  Somewhere around 24 minutes.
> View attachment 8270


Blimey @Jason Green. That is very close. Especially impressive considering how long you have been learning it.


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## Jason Green (Jul 29, 2017)

Thanks @mark49152 and @newtonbase! Just did another try and had correct memo but messed up execution somehow. Not sure if I missed a letter pair or what. But I went back through it then and executed same memo and it worked. These 20-30 minute memos are crazy. I keep rechecking myself and then I'll start edges and forget how corners even starts. Once I get the first couple it seems to come back to me. It's very fun though!


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## newtonbase (Jul 29, 2017)

Jason Green said:


> Once I get the first couple it seems to come back to me. It's very fun though!


I have the same issue so I often review just the first pair as I know the rest will flow after that. 
A technique I used to use with rooms in MBLD was to put the first image as a picture on the door of the first room. Unfortunately, I now use a better set of rooms but they don't have doors, or the doors are always open in real life.


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## mark49152 (Jul 29, 2017)

Jason Green said:


> Once I get the first couple it seems to come back to me. It's very fun though!


Noah calls that a keystone. If you have a really strong image for the first pair, it helps recall the rest. I vaguely recall reading someone recently say that for multi or big blind they memo a separate scene with just the keystone images from all the rest of their memo. As long as they remember the keystone scene, they have a good chance of recovering any other part of their memo.


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## Selkie (Jul 29, 2017)

Wow awesome effort @Jason Green


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## newtonbase (Jul 30, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> Noah calls that a keystone. If you have a really strong image for the first pair, it helps recall the rest. I vaguely recall reading someone recently say that for multi or big blind they memo a separate scene with just the keystone images from all the rest of their memo. As long as they remember the keystone scene, they have a good chance of recovering any other part of their memo.


I'll bet that works but is it worth the extra time it would take? It's probably good for people at 6 or under as the time limit is less of a problem.


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## pglewis (Jul 30, 2017)

So close and illustrates you have everything down, @Jason Green. Every single success is still worth a fist pump for me but that first one was special.


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## pglewis (Jul 30, 2017)

I did a few timed solves to avoid getting rusty and missed my PB Ao12 by .01 after I got warmed up. Should have beat it but for a DNF :24 over a rare E perm fail. I definitely need to keep up on my OLLs a little more but otherwise nice to still see slow progress continue just via osmosis.


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## mark49152 (Jul 30, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> I'll bet that works but is it worth the extra time it would take? It's probably good for people at 6 or under as the time limit is less of a problem.


I haven't tried it and mentioned it only for interest. Personally I would spend the extra time hardening the original memo, but it might be worth a try for anyone who frequently has problems with recall.


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## mafergut (Jul 30, 2017)

Congrats to @Jason Green for your first BLD success or close to it. I also remember my first success (with OP corners & edges). When you open your eyes and see the cube all solved it's like... what?!? Sadly I did not persevere. Later on, like 1 year ago I learned M2, pushed by the worderful guys in this thread and was having my 1st successes with it below 10min... but again I did not persevere. I understand what you say, it is hard to retain the memo for that long so, it can only get easier with practise as you need to keep your memo for less and less time  It's a lot of fun, though, so... go for it!

By the way, I beat my 4x4 PB Ao5. Got it down from 1:08.19 to 1:07.30 so I am not losing my mojo after all! 

And... I couldn't resist and bought a WuQue M + WuShuang M from these Spanish guys I told you about. They had a special price for getting both so...  Stickerless of course. 78.50 € includding shipping is not a bad deal, or is it?


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## Shaky Hands (Jul 30, 2017)

moralsh said:


> While we were waiting for everybody to show up, @Shaky Hands just stopped Feliks to ask about his dad (I bet that's not what usually people stop Feliks for) but unluckily he didn't made it to the photo.



I think this was @Logiqx rather than me.

Thanks for all your updates. Great competition report in multiple installments!


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## newtonbase (Jul 30, 2017)

Shaky Hands said:


> I think this was @Logiqx rather than me.
> 
> Thanks for all your updates. Great competition report in multiple installments!


I think that was me actually.


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## Shaky Hands (Jul 30, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> I think that was me actually.



Well if I can't tell the difference between people, there's no point me trying to be fully colour-neutral.


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## Jason Green (Jul 30, 2017)

I wrote this first part yesterday but didn't post it:
I told you people don't blind talk a lot... Here I go. 

A few more attempts today mostly garbage. I think almost exclusively it's wrong memo. I remember what I want (I think) but I'm just getting the won't sticker somewhere along the way. The last one I didn't even feel like analyzing completely.

Maybe I should do some more corners only and edges only practice? I'm so anxious to get a success now that I was close though.

Today:
Please help me with these corners! I don't understand what to do.
R2 F2 U' R2 B2 U2 B2 D2 U' F L B L' D2 F2 U R U2 B' F2
I get:
XF GN JK
Then all I have left is the buffer piece in the O spot. Normally you skip the buffer when you get to it but... I'm missing something.

Edit: Sorry duh, you have to do the letter that moves to the buffer, so I just have to finish with an O.


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## mark49152 (Jul 30, 2017)

Jason Green said:


> Please help me with these corners! I don't understand what to do.
> R2 F2 U' R2 B2 U2 B2 D2 U' F L B L' D2 F2 U R U2 B' F2
> I get:
> XF GN JK
> Then all I have left is the buffer piece in the O spot. Normally you skip the buffer when you get to it but... I'm missing something.


You have to solve O. Then you stop because your buffer piece will now have been swapped into the buffer position.

Regarding the failures, my advice would be to solve sighted until you're comfortable with your method. That way you can see what's going wrong and when.


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## bubbagrub (Jul 30, 2017)

Jason Green said:


> Please help me with these corners! I don't understand what to do.
> R2 F2 U' R2 B2 U2 B2 D2 U' F L B L' D2 F2 U R U2 B' F2
> I get:
> XF GN JK
> Then all I have left is the buffer piece in the O spot. Normally you skip the buffer when you get to it but... I'm missing something.



I make the memo as you have it: 
XF GN JK O

That means you have parity (and you should have an odd number of edge targets too).


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## Jason Green (Jul 30, 2017)

Thanks guys, I saw my mistake right after I posted. 

Mark what I had been doing was an attempt with a scramble I know, then when I fail I go through it sighted to see what went wrong. That way I get a chance for a real success, but also can learn from it.  Is that reasonable?

I'm going to do a few more rounds of corners and edges separate though.


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## newtonbase (Jul 30, 2017)

Jason Green said:


> Mark what I had been doing was an attempt with a scramble I know, then when I fail I go through it sighted to see what went wrong. That way I get a chance for a real success, but also can learn from it.  Is that reasonable?


The only issue here is if you completely screw up then you'll not be able to work it out though that's usually an early execution error (or maybe recall). It is a good way of spotting memo errors though. 
I do like sighted solves early on. You can still do them from memo or even do unsighted but check after each pair which I'm doing for comms and for 4BLD.


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## mark49152 (Jul 30, 2017)

Jason Green said:


> Mark what I had been doing was an attempt with a scramble I know, then when I fail I go through it sighted to see what went wrong. That way I get a chance for a real success, but also can learn from it.  Is that reasonable?


Yeah it's all reasonable. It's only a hobby so whatever gives you most fun .


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## Jason Green (Jul 30, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> Yeah it's all reasonable. It's only a hobby so whatever gives you most fun .


Of course, but I want your personal money back guarantee which way will produce the most fun. 



newtonbase said:


> The only issue here is if you completely screw up then you'll not be able to work it out though that's usually an early execution error (or maybe recall). It is a good way of spotting memo errors though.
> I do like sighted solves early on. You can still do them from memo or even do unsighted but check after each pair which I'm doing for comms and for 4BLD.


My first couple tries I think I was a bit lucky being able to see the error because it was only memo. But now I'm branching out into all sorts of random errors and you are right, it's hard to tell what I did wrong. I think I like this idea, do full memo but check after each pair.


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## pglewis (Jul 31, 2017)

You're gonna get one Jason, you already missed by just one wrong sticker. It's a lot of things initially: a letter scheme to get used to, tracking cycles without enough fingers, coming up with images for your pairs, and that's all before execution even starts. Might be the next one, might be 10 more failures from now, but you're gonna get one.


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## Jason Green (Jul 31, 2017)

Success!! I scared my five year old when I opened my eyes because I clapped and yelled "YES!!"

R2 U2 F L2 F R2 B R2 B2 D F' U' L B R' D' F' U F'

Edges:
COFD SHD XN QP KG

Corners:
XM GI TV N

Weird thing is I was having trouble with images on edges so I basically did audio I guess you would call it?
Coughed shed XN QP Kevin Garnett (he plays for the Celtics, or maybe he got traded I don't keep up)

For the XN QP I was actually recalling visually looking at the locations during memo. I am assuming that can be an aid in recalling memo at times, I had never thought of that.

Corners were trivial, although I had to review after spending ages checking edge memo.
XM (like the radio) GI (as in army) TV (television) N (TVN together reminded me of TBN the religious Network, so sound was easy)

Probably about 24 minutes. This post reminds me I never reconstructed my last two 3x3 PBs.


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## newtonbase (Jul 31, 2017)

Jason Green said:


> Success!! I scared my five year old when I opened my eyes because I clapped and yelled "YES!!"
> 
> R2 U2 F L2 F R2 B R2 B2 D F' U' L B R' D' F' U F'
> 
> ...


Congratulations. It hasn't taken you long at all. I still think that my first blind solve is my best achievement in cubing.
Visual memory like you describe was pretty common a few years ago but you won't need it once you get used to audio.
Those edges would use all my audio tricks - CHO FaD SiNG DiSH NeaTH PicK Gambit.


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## Jason Green (Jul 31, 2017)

I tried to stream the solution just to show my friends on FB (mainly non cuber friends). I tried it 2.5 times and got it. Watching me get confused with the scramble around 10 minutes is funny, it reminds me of watching old videos of me solving when every F2L took deep thought. Haha




__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10159073935375425


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## Jason Green (Jul 31, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> Congratulations. It hasn't taken you long at all. I still think that my first blind solve is my best achievement in cubing.
> Visual memory like you describe was pretty common a few years ago but you won't need it once you get used to audio.
> Those edges would use all my audio tricks - CHO FaD SiNG DiSH NeaTH PicK Gambit.


Can you explain those audio tricks? Like is NeaTH for XN? I can't follow that. Is it just something that works for your brain or is there an explanation I could grasp?

Edit: BTW, I don't know what I would say my greatest accomplishment is (not like I've accomplished anything amazing). I think the single moment that has stuck with me is my first sub 20 solve though. Up until that point it seemed so impossible.


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## h2f (Jul 31, 2017)

Jason Green said:


> Success!! I scared my five year old when I opened my eyes because I clapped and yelled "YES!!"
> 
> R2 U2 F L2 F R2 B R2 B2 D F' U' L B R' D' F' U F'
> 
> ...



Congrats.


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## mark49152 (Jul 31, 2017)

Congrats @Jason Green, that's great! First BLD success is a special moment in cubing.

Just a note on your edges. Using pairs is helpful in making sure you know whether you're on an odd or even target, so you can swap your M slice targets when you need to. In your edges, SHD was a group of three, so the last three pairs would have been inverted and could have caused a mistake with the M slice. Luckily in this case both S and C had already been solved . Generally it's better to use only pairs, or maybe fours.

My audio would have gone like this. I use four letter words.

COFD SHDX NQPK G

Coe-fud South-dux Nish-pitch Gaz

Q is a "sh" sound which is why I wouldn't use it in SHDX. K is a "ch" to differentiate from C. Generally I try to make sure each sound uniquely and unambiguously maps back to a single letter. I think @newtonbase does the same, he just uses different sounds. I put a Z sound on the trailing letter to remind me there's parity.

The advantage of audio is that it's faster than images, but the memo doesn't persist as long. I'm not sure how useful it will be at your times. You might find it more reliable to stick with images until you're down around 2-3 minutes.


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## newtonbase (Jul 31, 2017)

Jason Green said:


> Can you explain those audio tricks? Like is NeaTH for XN? I can't follow that. Is it just something that works for your brain or is there an explanation I could grasp?
> 
> Edit: BTW, I don't know what I would say my greatest accomplishment is (not like I've accomplished anything amazing). I think the single moment that has stuck with me is my first sub 20 solve though. Up until that point it seemed so impossible.





mark49152 said:


> Congrats @Jason Green, that's great! First BLD success is a special moment in cubing.
> 
> Just a note on your edges. Using pairs is helpful in making sure you know whether you're on an odd or even target, so you can swap your M slice targets when you need to. In your edges, SHD was a group of three, so the last three pairs would have been inverted and could have caused a mistake with the M slice. Luckily in this case both S and C had already been solved . Generally it's better to use only pairs, or maybe fours.
> 
> ...


As @mark49152 says, you used a triplet rather than a pair which threw the order out. In audio I use
Ch for C
Ng where a word ends in H
Sh for X
Th for Q
Where there is an odd letter at the end I use a superhero name so I know there is parity. I regret this system though as superheroes are fantastic images so they are wasted using them just once every 2 solves.


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## kbrune (Jul 31, 2017)

Jason Green said:


> Success!! I scared my five year old when I opened my eyes because I clapped and yelled "YES!!"




lol Congrats

Reminds me of my reaction to my first BLD success. minus the traumatized kid lol

I remember that I had to memo with all images for a long time until I was under 5 minutes at least. Then as my execution became more fluid with less pauses for thinking. I was able to push memo and audio edges started being possible.

I still struggle with audio as memo cause It really doesnt' stay in my mind very long. If I make one mistake on execution. I'll go to fix it and then there goes the rest of the memo sometimes. 

I also remember thinking it would be impossible for me to get down to 2 minutes. And now I'm averaging 2:30 ish.
Funny how we have mental limitations to our abilities. Can't count the amount of times I've said "**** i'll never get to X time in this" and then I get there.

So currently I can't see how i'll get down around 1 minute in BLD. But im hoping im just in my own way as ususal!
The only thing that seems to stunt my BLD progress these days is mental stamina. I find practicing BLD mentally taxing. I can't do more then 2-3 solves in a row. After that my memo is terrible. I hate having to take breaks. My typical practice regimen is to bull doze through hours of solves. I hate breaks!

You're already doing really good Jay! Looking forward to seeing your times drop


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## newtonbase (Jul 31, 2017)

kbrune said:


> So currently I can't see how i'll get down around 1 minute in BLD. But im hoping im just in my own way as ususal!


I know exactly what you mean. My realistic goal is to be around 1:30 globally (though with my ridiculous inconsistency I don't know how I'll know if I get there) but I think that might hold me back so I'm going for sub 1 instead and I'll see where that gets me.


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## pglewis (Jul 31, 2017)

Jason Green said:


> For the XN QP I was actually recalling visually looking at the locations during memo. I am assuming that can be an aid in recalling memo at times, I had never thought of that.



I've even caught memo errors during execution that way, remembering the cycle break itself spatially (wait, that wasn't S... it's R, you dummy!). Mostly because you and I spend a _lot_ of time in tracing/memo right now, though. As I move on to pushing memo speed I don't expect that to stick as well as it does on a careful 10 min memo. 

Big congrats on the first of many successes! I'm curious to see a sighted Ao50 from you in about two weeks... I swear both times I started up blind practice this year it has magically improved my sighted times.


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## pglewis (Jul 31, 2017)

kbrune said:


> I also remember thinking it would be impossible for me to get down to 2 minutes. And now I'm averaging 2:30 ish.
> Funny how we have mental limitations to our abilities. Can't count the amount of times I've said "**** i'll never get to X time in this" and then I get there.



So very much this. I really thought a sub 20 average was a crazy goal when I set it since the thought of a sub 30 single felt "ridiculously optimistic" to me at the time. I'm still a ways from that goal but it feels like a foregone conclusion to me now: keep pounding F2L and lookahead and it'll happen. 

So now, well before I've even reached that goal, I think I'm ready to move the chains: sub-10 is the new sub-20.


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## JanW (Jul 31, 2017)

pglewis said:


> I've even caught memo errors during execution that way, remembering the cycle break itself spatially (wait, that wasn't S... it's R, you dummy!). Mostly because you and I spend a _lot_ of time in tracing/memo right now, though. As I move on to pushing memo speed I don't expect that to stick as well as it does on a careful 10 min memo.


This happens to me with my 1-2 minute memos as well. I don't spend a _lot_ of time tracing, but enough to sometimes realize I have the wrong letter during execution.


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## bubbagrub (Aug 1, 2017)

Older (and younger) cubers...


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## mark49152 (Aug 1, 2017)

@bubbagrub you've ruined that picture by leaving your cube unsolved. Shame on you


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## Jason Green (Aug 2, 2017)

My second success tonight. Been traveling so didn't get much practice. On this solve my last corner was a flipped one O, W. I actually memoed it as O, V but caught it at execution because I knew it was a flipped corner.


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## muchacho (Aug 2, 2017)

Shocking news in BLD world: second try at only edges (Turbo), first was a mess, in this one 4 pieces were solved and another 2 flipped, not great but it gives me some hope.

edit: 8 solved edges in the fourth try.
edit2: arghh just 2 flipped edges, I'm done for today.


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## mark49152 (Aug 2, 2017)

@muchacho, keep trying!

@h2f, nice 6:03, execution looked efficient!


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## h2f (Aug 2, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> @muchacho, keep trying!
> 
> @h2f, nice 6:03, execution looked efficient!



Thanks Mark. Yeah. I'm happy about it - around 2:20. I knew I can be faster but I've slowed down before comp this weekend.


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## newtonbase (Aug 2, 2017)

Just got a 36s 3BLD memo. I memo'd a twisted corner in the wrong direction but recalled it all correctly. Was 6 corners plus the twist then 12 edge targets which I messed up in execution but very promising.


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## Selkie (Aug 3, 2017)

Great picture @bubbagrub , was a really enjoyable evening and great to see you and @Logiqx as well as the other potential older cubers


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## mark49152 (Aug 3, 2017)

My finely-honed memory skills continue to astound me! Today I tried a 4-cube multi during my tea break, and after starting the timer and removing the cover, I realised... I'd forgotten to scramble them.

Anyway, for those who thought their day just couldn't get any more exciting, here's a video of my recent 20 cube attempt. I might post one of these every few weeks if I make enough progress.

(If it doesn't embed properly, just click the link. The site is broken at the moment.)


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## Selkie (Aug 3, 2017)

Wow @mark49152 , that was a great attempt


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## newtonbase (Aug 4, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> My finely-honed memory skills continue to astound me! Today I tried a 4-cube multi during my tea break, and after starting the timer and removing the cover, I realised... I'd forgotten to scramble them.
> 
> Anyway, for those who thought their day just couldn't get any more exciting, here's a video of my recent 20 cube attempt. I might post one of these every few weeks if I make enough progress.
> 
> (If it doesn't embed properly, just click the link. The site is broken at the moment.)


I don't know if I'm more impressed by your 20 cube attempt or that you found a brand new way to screw up ☺


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## newtonbase (Aug 4, 2017)

Nice film on the WCs. @Shaky Hands makes an early appearance.


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## h2f (Aug 4, 2017)

@mark49152 I've seen your attempt - it's amazing. I think cutting 15 minutes will not take you a long time.


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## mark49152 (Aug 4, 2017)

Thanks guys. I was pleased with the 19/20 accuracy. Getting 25%+ faster will be a long term challenge though. I've already trained MBLD speed this past year to go from 8 to 14 cubes, so there are no more quick wins. It will take a lot of practice to add the same number again!

I might try another attempt at lunchtime today if I can find enough time.


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## JohnnyReggae (Aug 4, 2017)

Another package arrived yesterday after a long 2 month wait, in fact I ordered the cubes on the 23rd May ... Anyway this one was a bit more exciting than my last one which had a couple GTS2's amongst other things.

Only 2 cubes in this package, but I was excited for both. First off the new Shengshou 5x5 Mastermorphix (Gigamorphix/Ultramorphix). Not sure on the official name as I have seen all 3 being used. This is an amazing puzzle. The turning and feel are both amazing. It caught me out as it turned out to be slightly harder solve than I anticipated, probably because I haven't solved either of my 3x3 or 4x4 Mastermorphixes in a while. For the price I am blown away by the quality of the puzzle. it feels better than my Moyu 4x4 Mastermorphix. I would recommend this puzzle for any collection.

   

The 2nd cube in the package was a pink stickerless Aolong V2. My original Aolong V2 is still the cube that has the most individual solves on it, around 13000 or so, and I love it. I wanted to put magnets in it, but didn't want to mess it up with using the wrong magnets etc ... So I decided to get a new one and I went with stickerless as stickerles seems to be growing on me ... like a fungus  ... I've already put magnets into it using 5x1.5mm N38 magnets. The magnets give it a lot of stability. I haven't had a corner twist yet which I did get a lot with my original Aolong, perhaps the magnets are helping with that as well. I've been getting close to my average with it but struggle with the recognition a little. The Green and Yellow are a little to close in shades so I've often confused the 2. The Aolong is still an amazing cube and I quite like the 57mm size.


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## muchacho (Aug 4, 2017)

I may buy that 5x5 Mastermorphix... but not for solving it, just for display, it looks cool.

This also looks good scrambled, it's a 5x5 tennis ball (that I saw in a video by Robert Yau). I'm hoping solving it will be fun and not difficult.


I've reached 50000 timed solves at 3x3, graphs confirm what I expected, maybe I've improved a little, but very little.


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## JohnnyReggae (Aug 4, 2017)

muchacho said:


> I may buy that 5x5 Mastermorphix... but not for solving it, just for display, it looks cool.
> 
> This also looks good scrambled, it's a 5x5 tennis ball (that I saw in a video by Robert Yau). I'm hoping solving it will be fun and not difficult.
> View attachment 8294
> ...


The Mastermorphix is a fun solve and the 4x4 and 5x5 versions are interesting as you need to use commutators to solve the last 2 centers.

Well done on the 50000 solves  I'm right on your doorstep with 49000 odd. Should get before the end of the month


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## muchacho (Aug 4, 2017)

I have a 3x3 Mastermorphix, I don't even touch it in case I scramble it by error.

I need help from some 5x5 god, is there an alg for this?


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## mark49152 (Aug 4, 2017)

muchacho said:


> I need help from some 5x5 god, is there an alg for this?


I'm not familiar with that puzzle, is it just a 2-colour 5x5? Anyway it looks like a 3x3 stage problem you have there. I would flip some edges to get all white on top, then use an EPLL to fix the sides.


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## JohnnyReggae (Aug 4, 2017)

muchacho said:


> I have a 3x3 Mastermorphix, I don't even touch it in case I scramble it by error.
> 
> I need help from some 5x5 god, is there an alg for this?
> 
> View attachment 8297 View attachment 8298


Never seen or tried that puzzle, but it seems like some kind of "parity". I would swap the one in front with another tredge with the same colour to see if that twists the pieces around ...


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## muchacho (Aug 4, 2017)

Yes, 2 colours, like this:





I'll try moving edges in case it solves by itself


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## muchacho (Aug 4, 2017)

ok, now it's like the previous photo but with white on top, what's the alg to swap those opposite tredges?


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## JohnnyReggae (Aug 4, 2017)

Don't know any specific algs ... I'd try this one ..

- 2 edges swap with 2 pairs
00X
XX0
Lw' U2 Lw' U2 F2 Lw' F2 Rw U2 Rw' U2 Lw2

Have them on top facing. Swap the 1 edge, do a U2 and swap the other edge. And then this alg to swap the center edges ...
Rw2 U2 Rw U2 Rw2 U2 Rw2 U2 Rw U2 Rw2

Not sure what this will do to the rest of the cube though.


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## mark49152 (Aug 4, 2017)

There's no parity on 5x5 if your tredges are already formed. Isn't this a simple 3x3 edge flip? You can flip a white/white tredge along with the black/white. For swapping places try messing with U perms.


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## muchacho (Aug 4, 2017)

U perm did it, thanks!


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## Selkie (Aug 4, 2017)

Well of all the cubing achievements to date, today's is one I am probably proudest of. When I changed from using a beginner method for 30 years and switched to CFOP in 2010 I decided I wanted to be sub 15 globally and in competition. Unusual for an older cuber as sub 20 would have been a more realistic target and one that would be far less time consuming to achieve. I achieved sub 20 within the first year. My road from sub 20 to sub 15 has been 6 years long so far. And although I am certainly not globally sub 20 (About 15.1x), today I got my first sub 15 average of 100! :-

3x3 Average of 100: 14.96

So much improvement in a few weeks from concentrated practice on cross to first pair and a very forgiving Cubicle labs GTS2M helps!


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## mark49152 (Aug 4, 2017)

Congrats @Selkie!


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## mark49152 (Aug 4, 2017)

Road to 20/20 part 2 already.


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## pipkiksass (Aug 4, 2017)

Hi folks, just checking in - how is everyone? I've been snooping around the thread occasionally, but far too busy these days to get overly involved. I'm struggling to find enough time to cube, let alone hang about on the forums! Hope those who went to Worlds had fun?!

Congrats on sub-15 @Selkie - it's a goal of mine, too. My problem is I can regularly hit sub-16 Ao5s, but struggle to concentrate long enough to roll it out to a good average. I need to focus on lookahead and cross to F2L transition, but I have so little time for cubing these days.

In other news, I'm thinking of putting magnets in my WuQue, just coz. Has anyone (@newtonbase?) successfully magnetised a WuQue themselves, rather than buying, and any thoughts on magnet strength? I'm thinking N35 4x2s for outer layers, N52 4x2s for inners.


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## h2f (Aug 4, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> Road to 20/20 part 2 already.


Great. This gonna happen faster than you think.


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## newtonbase (Aug 4, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> Road to 20/20 part 2 already.


Nice one Mark. Thought you were going to have a problem there at the start. 



pipkiksass said:


> Congrats on sub-15 @Selkie
> In other news, I'm thinking of putting magnets in my WuQue, just coz. Has anyone (@newtonbase?) successfully magnetised a WuQue themselves, rather than buying, and any thoughts on magnet strength? I'm thinking N35 4x2s for outer layers, N52 4x2s for inners.


Hi. Not yet but I do own a a Wuque for that purpose. I need to do some research as the magnet layout is different on a 4x4. I'll be very interested in how you get on. There is a magnets thread with experienced helpful people on it so have a look there if you haven't already.


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## One Wheel (Aug 4, 2017)

pipkiksass said:


> In other news, I'm thinking of putting magnets in my WuQue, just coz. Has anyone (@newtonbase?) successfully magnetised a WuQue themselves, rather than buying, and any thoughts on magnet strength? I'm thinking N35 4x2s for outer layers, N52 4x2s for inners.



There need to be twice as many magnets on the inner layers as the outer ones, so even though you want more magnetic force on the inner layers you want weaker magnets there. I used n38 4x2 on the outer layers and N38 4x1.5 on the inner layers of a yuxin blue. It's pretty strong, if I did it again I might try n35, but the balance is good.


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## mark49152 (Aug 5, 2017)

h2f said:


> Great. This gonna happen faster than you think.


I have a spreadsheet to work it all out . I benchmark my speed with splits and stddev from 4-cube attempts, and from that I can project my times for larger attempts. Accuracy of these projections is surprisingly good, usually within 1-2 minutes. Current projection for 20 cubes is 1:09 at home, 1:12 in comp. From this I know I have to set a pace equivalent to 7:30 for 4 cubes, and sustain that over 20 cubes while maintaining accuracy. I'm currently averaging ~9:30 and have only twice got sub-9, so I know consistent 7:30 pace will take some practice!


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## pipkiksass (Aug 5, 2017)

One Wheel said:


> There need to be twice as many magnets on the inner layers as the outer ones, so even though you want more magnetic force on the inner layers you want weaker magnets there. I used n38 4x2 on the outer layers and N38 4x1.5 on the inner layers of a yuxin blue. It's pretty strong, if I did it again I might try n35, but the balance is good.



Thanks for this - was the Yuxin stickerless or stickered? I'm only asking because I'm thinking of plastic thickness.

I was intending to use N35 4x2 for outer layers, so will use calculators and get something a little weaker for the inners that x2 will be a little stronger.

There's debate about polarities in dedges- did you use the same polarities in each dredge, i.e. two N in one dedge, two S in the other? For example, if you have two white/red dedges, did each have a north and south, or one with two N, one with two S sides??


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## Lid (Aug 5, 2017)

Weeeee, first sub50 on 4x4!
49.051[pll-parity] B D B f2 r2 U' F' L u2 R L' U2 F2 L2 B r' R' F U2 r f2 F L2 U' F R' D' u2 R2 D' R2 f2 F' L2 D2 f2 L B' F R
PB by 1.40s!

Also had a 58.663 a5 PB some days ago.


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## One Wheel (Aug 5, 2017)

pipkiksass said:


> Thanks for this - was the Yuxin stickerless or stickered? I'm only asking because I'm thinking of plastic thickness.
> 
> I was intending to use N35 4x2 for outer layers, so will use calculators and get something a little weaker for the inners that x2 will be a little stronger.
> 
> There's debate about polarities in dedges- did you use the same polarities in each dredge, i.e. two N in one dedge, two S in the other? For example, if you have two white/red dedges, did each have a north and south, or one with two N, one with two S sides??



Mine is black stickered. 

As far as polarities, I used the second configuration you described. If you separate the dedges/wings you will see that each one is composed of two non-identical (but not quite mirror image) parts. If you make piles with identically-shaped pieces, then each of the pieces in a given pile should have identical placement and polarity of magnets.


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## pipkiksass (Aug 5, 2017)

xyzzy said:


> Assuming you mean _wing_ and not _dedge_: the point of having doubled magnets along the middle (where two wings contact) is that you need one of them to be S and the other to be N for the magnetic pull to be consistent between different pieces. If you had an NN piece adjacent to another NN piece, or an SS piece adjacent to another SS piece, they'd repel rather than attract.



No, I meant dedge, it's been commonly used for 4x4 "wings". 

But thanks for your input on the polarity issue. Whichever polarity you use, surely it's possible to have north to north, or south to south, as edges can be flipped in place?!


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## One Wheel (Aug 5, 2017)

pipkiksass said:


> IWhichever polarity you use, surely it's possible to have north to north, or south to south, as edges can be flipped in place?!



No. If every piece (wing, dedge, whatever you call it) is identical and can only be flipped 180 degrees relative to the others, then it will always attract. I'll try to draw a diagram:
N|S
S|N
You can never flip just one of those pairs. Not sure if this makes sense. I can try again if it doesn't.


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## mark49152 (Aug 5, 2017)

I just bought a clock. It's stiff as... really stiff. Any tips on lubing it and making it good? I've watched a few videos but there is conflicting advice out there and I wonder if anyone here has any tips.


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## muchacho (Aug 5, 2017)

Mine was also super stiff. I followed this and it worked quite well:





I finally did edges for the first time, success after only  42 tries.
3:55 (2:27) U L2 U2 L2 U2 L' B2 F2 L' B' D B L' R U' R' D2


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## newtonbase (Aug 5, 2017)

The qualification and schedule for the UK Championships have been announced. There's a full day of competition on the Friday which may mean I don't get to do 4BLD and the 5 point qualification for MBLD excludes me from that. I'm a bit disappointed.


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## newtonbase (Aug 5, 2017)

muchacho said:


> Mine was also super stiff. I followed this and it worked quite well:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Congratulations.


----------



## Ollie (Aug 5, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> The qualification and schedule for the UK Championships have been announced. There's a full day of competition on the Friday which may mean I don't get to do 4BLD and the 5 point qualification for MBLD excludes me from that. I'm a bit disappointed.


I'm quite pleased all events are being held for once though


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## newtonbase (Aug 5, 2017)

Ollie said:


> I'm quite pleased all events are being held for once though


Don't they always have them all at the UKs?


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## mark49152 (Aug 5, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> Don't they always have them all at the UKs?


Last year you could enter MBLD or FMC but not both. Not sure about other events. Two MBLD attempts this year, and three FMC will keep Ben happy .

Are you going to Guildford? MBLD qualification opportunity there.


----------



## newtonbase (Aug 5, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> Last year you could enter MBLD or FMC but not both. Not sure about other events. Two MBLD attempts this year, and three FMC will keep Ben happy .
> 
> Are you going to Guildford? MBLD qualification opportunity there.


No. It clashes with my wedding anniversary and I'm focusing on getting to the bigger comps which unfortunately seems to be working against me. Hopefully there will be lots of blind stuff at Weston.


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## mark49152 (Aug 5, 2017)

How about a romantic anniversary getaway to Guildford with a brief detour for multi?


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## newtonbase (Aug 5, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> How about a romantic anniversary getaway to Guildford with a brief detour for multi?


Don't think I'd have to worry about another anniversary after that! 
Just looked and it was Macclesfield last July when I was last able to compete in MBLD.


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## mark49152 (Aug 5, 2017)

muchacho said:


> Mine was also super stiff. I followed this and it worked quite well:


Thanks. That's probably what I'll try. Kit Clement's video looks good too.

Congrats on the edges success 



newtonbase said:


> Just looked and it was Macclesfield last July when I was last able to compete in MBLD.


Yeah that seems either harsh or unlucky. Any other options? Like a quick day trip to France to do a multi?


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## newtonbase (Aug 6, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> Yeah that seems either harsh or unlucky. Any other options? Like a quick day trip to France to do a multi?


It's a bit of both. The comps I've been to either had qualifying, MBLD on a day I wasn't there or no MBLD. I doubt I'll be able to get to another foreign comp but I'll get 5 points eventually and hopefully the bar won't be raised too soon.


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## chtiger (Aug 6, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> Kit Clement's video looks good too.


 That's the one I used ("How to Make a Good Clock"). The only thing that didn't work for me was putting tape on only 1 side to leave some wiggle room. I did better taping 2 or 3 sides. Lubing makes a huge improvement. I bought a new clock a while back and did an ao5 before lubing and was 19.xx. My first ao5 after lubing was 9.xx.


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## newtonbase (Aug 6, 2017)

I filmed my first ever clock solve which started with the unboxing. I'd never touched one before and got an awful shock when I tried to turn it as it barely moved. Took well over 10 minutes.


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## mark49152 (Aug 6, 2017)

Congrats Grzegorz @h2f on the 4BLD PB!


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## chtiger (Aug 6, 2017)

Some more oldster comp results
http://cubecomps.com/live.php?cid=2396&compid=58
PB avg in everything- 2x2, 3x3, pyra, sq-1, OH (by default), and PB single (3.50) in 2x2


Spoiler: times+comments



3x3 -- Fairly standard for me. Only 1 bad solve. Smoother turning in the 2nd round got me sub-21. Next stop, sub-20.
22.32, 22.55, 23.44, 29.08, 22.15 = *22.77*
23.90, 20.75, 21.31, 19.98, 18.31 = *20.68
*
2x2 -- 1st round was terrible, 3 bad mistakes, 1 just slow, and 1 decent. 2nd round started good, but messed up last 2 solves to blow an easy sub-6. Still PB with counting 8.99.
12.63, 8.30, 6.60, 9.12, 11.03 = *9.48*
5.31, 3.50, 6.03, 8.99, 9.14 = *6.78
*
OH -- wasn't expecting to make the 1:00 cutoff. First solve was good (for me), 2nd solve was CFOOPFOP.
50.18, 1:51.49, 1:04.54, 1:06.99, 54.34 = *1:01.96*

pyra --decent times for me, none were great, none were bad.
10.57, 11.96, 11.34, 11.32, 10.57 = *11.08
*
sq-1 -- wasn't sure I'd make the :45 cutoff. Did way better than expected. First 4 solves not having parity certainly helped. Second round was unexpected and didn't really care about it. The 3 solves I was doing bad on also had parity.
36.49, 30.88, 39.83, 32.05, 44.83 = *36.12*
54.99, 33.25, 35.50, 54.66, 1:03.97 = *48.38*


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## Jason Green (Aug 7, 2017)

I'm starting to time my blind solves, just had a 15:30.90 success with some interruptions. There's a comp on 8/26 with a 15:00 cumulative cutoff, so I'm hoping I can get an official single! Did not practice a lot this week while on vacation but it's really fun!

Edit: just got a 9:41.64 success! It's so fun starting something new and improving so fast. 

Edit 2: 3 more attempts, 7:40.58, DNF by missing an edge flipped in place, 9:19.19


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## h2f (Aug 7, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> Congrats Grzegorz @h2f on the 4BLD PB!



Thanks. I'm happy I did it though I hoped for 7:xx. I was late for a comp due to traffic jam and was very nervous about it. I had only 30 minutes to make all attempts: no time for rest after 4 hours of morning driving. I hoped for the same result in 5bld but no this time. For the first time I had a reall practice before comp in last month and it payed off. I'm going to keep it. Next comps with big blindes are in a month.

I also got very nice pbs in 3x3 - I havent practiced it much in last month (I did maybe 300 solves). 

Results: http://cubecomps.com/live.php?cid=2408&compid=48


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## mark49152 (Aug 7, 2017)

h2f said:


> I had only 30 minutes to make all attempts: no time for rest after 4 hours of morning driving.


That's unfortunate. It's good to get a success given the difficult circumstances. Did you video it?

Congrats on the nice 3x3 too.


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## Jason Green (Aug 7, 2017)

For moving to M2, are there any useful tricks or algs for I and S? I'm just looking at memorizing the ones from JPerm's tutorial on the description. Is that the best approach?


----------



## h2f (Aug 7, 2017)

Jason Green said:


> For moving to M2, are there any useful tricks or algs for I and S? I'm just looking at memorizing the ones from JPerm's tutorial on the description. Is that the best approach?



There's few tricks but knowing these algs helps a lot. They are the same as in Noah's tutorial.


----------



## mark49152 (Aug 7, 2017)

Jason Green said:


> For moving to M2, are there any useful tricks or algs for I and S? I'm just looking at memorizing the ones from JPerm's tutorial on the description. Is that the best approach?


Yeah as a first step, you should learn those algs as you will need them sometimes. Study how they work - it makes it easier to remember them and not mix them up.

There are some neat tricks involving I and S. See here: https://www.speedsolving.com/forum/threads/advanced-m2-guide.56076/


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## h2f (Aug 7, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> Did you video it?










Subs in.


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## mark49152 (Aug 7, 2017)

@h2f - cool, nice reaction


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## h2f (Aug 7, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> @h2f - cool, nice reaction



there was more but I've sweared too much.


----------



## kbrune (Aug 7, 2017)

@Selkie 

Congrats on sub 15 ao100. truly an impressive accomplishment! It took me 5 years to be sub 20 globally. 7 years for you to hit sub15. 

Im only 2 years away from sub 15 ao100!!! woooo!


----------



## NewbieCuber (Aug 7, 2017)

JanW said:


> @NewbieCuber, I agree with Shaky Hands, turn off the timer for a while. When you are learning new things your full focus should be on those, not looking up to the timer. Whatever times you are doing now doesn't really matter, since you will so soon be doing a lot faster times anyway.  When learning F2L, you could devote most of your cubing time to that stage. Just slow turning focused F2L solving, then rescramble once F2L is done.



I've been doing what you suggested and slowly my times are improving. 90% of my solves are untimed just to get the F2L cases under my fingers. When I do time myself I'm back down to the 1:10 to 1:30. It really feels like the most improvement is going to come simply from repetition. As I do hundreds of solves I'm slowly getting better.

Still, I'd love to hit a 5 solve average of under one minute.


----------



## kbrune (Aug 7, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> I have a spreadsheet to work it all out . I benchmark my speed with splits and stddev from 4-cube attempts, and from that I can project my times for larger attempts. Accuracy of these projections is surprisingly good, usually within 1-2 minutes. Current projection for 20 cubes is 1:09 at home, 1:12 in comp. From this I know I have to set a pace equivalent to 7:30 for 4 cubes, and sustain that over 20 cubes while maintaining accuracy. I'm currently averaging ~9:30 and have only twice got sub-9, so I know consistent 7:30 pace will take some practice!



I wish I had the discipline and smarts to dissect and organize my practice like you do! It's almost as impressive as your BLD skills!

Great job on the progess! Looking forward to the day you set your new PB in comp!


----------



## Lid (Aug 7, 2017)

Todays PBs: Megaminx a5: *1:36.383* & a12: *1:43.954*
Times: 1:48.645, 1:46.538, 1:47.200, 1:53.376, 1:36.797, 1:45.109, {1:38.086, 1:34.922, (2:03.310), 1:36.140, (1:33.141)}, 1:52.731

Was just about to make a cubicle order ... but they were once again out of Silk ... sigh ...
Anyway plan to get a Magnetic 3x3 & 4x4 before next competition (mid sep).


----------



## h2f (Aug 7, 2017)

kbrune said:


> I wish I had the discipline and smarts to dissect and organize my practice like you do! It's almost as impressive as your BLD skills!



To follow my practice I've made excel sheet to write number of solves per day and few notes. My goal was 100 big bld solves. I've hit it after 28 days and in next 10 days I did another 50. When I saw what I was doing in a long period, and what is my progress it was much easier to force my mind to keep practice. I'm gonna to keep it.


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## kbrune (Aug 7, 2017)

@h2f 

Very nice video! Love the reaction to your success!


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## mafergut (Aug 8, 2017)

Hi guys! Lots of good progress in BLD. @Jason Green, as always, progressing fast. Already 9min successes, that's very nice! Incredible MBLD feat by @mark49152 and impressive 4BLD success by @h2f. You make me wanna try BLD again but with the little time I have now for cubing I know that's not gonna work for me.

While waiting for my new magnetic 4x4 and 5x5 (I hope I'll have them tomorrow) I've been practising a bit and improved my PB Ao100 by more than 1 sec in 4x4 and 4 sec in 5x5. Some nice singles as well, a couple sub-1min at 4x4 and a 2:07.xx at 5x5. I hope to get a sub-2min single soon with the Wushuang M.

Also, after more than one year and a half I have practiced a bit of skewb this weekend. Decided to move from Sarah's beginner to intermediate and I'm still trying to make the different cases stick. Recall is still far from perfect but I have already improved all my PBs. Hoping to get sub-10 soon. Today I got an Ao50 at 11,73 but there are still plenty of 15-20sec solves due to recall and execution failures so there's some room for improvement.


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## muchacho (Aug 9, 2017)

Ao5 PB: 14.798 (was 15.246)



Spoiler



50404 09-ago-2017 16:39:45 00:15.167 L2 F2 R2 U2 L2 D L2 U B2 F2 D L F' L' U F D L2 U' F2 D
50403 09-ago-2017 16:39:14 00:13.798 D B2 D' R2 D U2 L2 U L2 F2 U2 L F' D B' U R2 L2 F' D L' U2
50402 09-ago-2017 16:38:42 00:13.414 B2 D' F2 D' R2 D' R2 D2 L2 B2 U' R' L2 U2 B' R U B L F L2 D
50401 09-ago-2017 16:37:56 00:23.711 R2 U' R2 U B2 U R2 B2 U B2 L2 F' R' B L' D' B' U B'
50400 09-ago-2017 16:37:13 00:15.429 D2 F2 D2 F2 L2 F2 L2 D' F2 D F2 R' B2 R B' F' U L D B' R2 U'


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## mafergut (Aug 9, 2017)

You're getting so fast, David! @muchacho

First impression on the WuQue M and WuShuang M by Juki Mods. Very stable and fast. Inner slices much lighter to turn than what I'm used to in my own non-magnetic ones. In fact, the 4x4 is even lighter to turn on the inner slice than the outer and I'll need to get used to it. But, anyway, 5th solve out of the box 59.7x  Just 2 solves with the 5x5 and nothing great yet.


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## kbrune (Aug 10, 2017)

mafergut said:


> But, anyway, 5th solve out of the box 59.7x  Just 2 solves with the 5x5 and nothing great yet.



Everyone's so fast on 4x4! I can't seem to get below 1:25 ave. So many ppl around the same speed as me on 3x3 are around the 1 min mark on 4x4. I wonder what it is that im missing. Most likely practice but im sure my method is a part of it.


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## mafergut (Aug 10, 2017)

kbrune said:


> Everyone's so fast on 4x4! I can't seem to get below 1:25 ave. So many ppl around the same speed as me on 3x3 are around the 1 min mark on 4x4. I wonder what it is that im missing. Most likely practice but im sure my method is a part of it.



I think most of it is practice, yes. I was around 1:20 average 8 months ago and decided to keep practising almost exclusively 4x4 for several weeks. After maybe 1000 solves or more I was below 1:15. Now I'm around 1:13 but there are guys several here who are much closer to 1min global average so it's certainly possible. The cube can also give you 3-5seconds. I improved a bit when I bought a WuQue  I would need to do something similar with 5x5 and see if I can get closer to 2min mark (currently around 2:35 - 2:40 average probably).

Now it's my turn to say... everyone's so fast on 3x3! I just checked your official average and it's impressive. I would like to know how to get a bit closer to 15sec average but never seemed to be able to get below high 17 or low 18.


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## h2f (Aug 11, 2017)

My PB ao5 and single from last comp. I'm very happy about it. After 46 solve I needed 2 good solves so I pushed myself to do it. And it worked. 46 solve was just crap from the beginning - bad cross, poor f2l and mess during Aperm at 20 seconds. I knew it's bad so I didnt hurry to solve the cube.


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## newtonbase (Aug 11, 2017)

Registration is open for the UK Championships 
https://www.worldcubeassociation.org/competitions/UKChampionship2017/register


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## mark49152 (Aug 11, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> Registration is open for the UK Championships
> https://www.worldcubeassociation.org/competitions/UKChampionship2017/register


Despite clicking the button before 1 second past 7pm I was still only 3rd


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## newtonbase (Aug 11, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> Despite clicking the button before 1 second past 7pm I was still only 3rd


You made the podium! Didn't catch my number this time.

Edit: It's on the email. I was 10th.


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## Shaky Hands (Aug 11, 2017)

Think I got 6th place.


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## newtonbase (Aug 11, 2017)

55 people have been accepted already.


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## mark49152 (Aug 11, 2017)

20 second qualification for clock, and two comps to achieve it!


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## newtonbase (Aug 11, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> 20 second qualification for clock, and two comps to achieve it!


Another event I'll have to pass on.


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## bubbagrub (Aug 11, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> 20 second qualification for clock, and two comps to achieve it!



You're currently top on the psych sheet for MBLD, Mark...


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## Fyzzna (Aug 11, 2017)

So after putting it off multiple times, I've finally started learning proper CMLL  Currently learning one set every one or two days so it shouldn't take me that long either.
I have to say I enjoy this quite a bit more than 2look. Should've probably made the switch sooner (as everyone suggested) as it might take a while for my recognition to get up to speed now.


----------



## mark49152 (Aug 11, 2017)

bubbagrub said:


> You're currently top on the psych sheet for MBLD, Mark...


Cool . Currently I'm UK 3rd behind Ollie and Dan, so unless Ollie competes, I'll probably stay top ranked of the Brits. However, Callum, Ben Ridley and Bertie are all capable of doing more cubes than me in one hour. All they need is the luck and concentration on the day. Oliver Wheat is also closing fast. So that #3 ranking might not even last beyond Guildford. Its nice to see UK folks pushing for better scores in MBLD though - with all those talented and fast youngsters out there, it seems too easy if an oldie like me can make 3rd .


----------



## Jason Green (Aug 12, 2017)

M2 kind of kicked my butt this week. I didn't have much time to practice and when I did I was tired so that's not good. I think I was really messing up my set up moves mostly, along with some bad memo and possibly doing the I/S algs wrong. Usually when I double checked my memo it was correct. I had done success on 4 of 5 OP solves before switching so it was a little discouraging. I finally got an M2 success before leaving work today so maybe it will get better. I do like it though.

@Selkie you mentioned having a few successes when you learned the first time. Were you doing M2? I could see it getting discouraging for me more so than OP was, although who knows maybe I was just lucky on my OP solves.


----------



## mark49152 (Aug 12, 2017)

@Jason Green, hang on in there, it will get easier! Sighted solves help a lot.

For those wanting to push their M2 to the next level, this came out recently and is really good (check out part 2 as well):


----------



## pipkiksass (Aug 12, 2017)

kbrune said:


> Everyone's so fast on 4x4! I can't seem to get below 1:25 ave. So many ppl around the same speed as me on 3x3 are around the 1 min mark on 4x4. I wonder what it is that im missing. Most likely practice but im sure my method is a part of it.


As I'm about 2 seconds slower than you on 3x3, but about 5 seconds faster than you on 4x4, I feel I'm in a decent position to answer this question?!

We had a little exchange a while ago about how looking further into 3x3 solves during inspection helped me drop a good 1.5 seconds off my average (over a few months). I don't think, with 4x4, it's *so* much about inspection, but efficiency and lookahead during F2C is somewhat useful. I've found I'll always know at least how my first centre is being built completely during inspection, and where the first bar of my second centre will be formed. I'm assuming you already do this, though! 

As I say, I don't think it's SO much about inspection with 4x4, and the biggest kick in the teeth (for me) is always first 3 cross edges, and I think it's where I make up a little time. The key to cross edges really is lookahead. If you can spot something to get you going during F2C, you're on for a winner, then (like 3x3) it's about not going too fast. This is the hardest stage of (the Yau method of solving) 4x4, so I guess we should all be practicing it in the same way as we practice F2L when trying to improve on 3x3, but nobody makes much fuss about it. At least not to the extent that fuss is made about F2L on 3x3...

Do you use half-centres? J-Perm (can't remember his forum name) recently made a good video on YouTube about looking ahead between the last 2 half-centres, which helped me knock a little extra time off. Half-centres in general are great for L4C. 
I'm assuming your edge pairing is solid, and your 3x3 stage will clearly be good. I think a lot of people neglect cross edges, and we should all (me especially) probably dedicate a lot more time to it if we want to improve 4x4.


----------



## Jason Green (Aug 12, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> @Jason Green, hang on in there, it will get easier! Sighted solves help a lot.
> 
> For those wanting to push their M2 to the next level, this came out recently and is really good (check out part 2 as well):


Thanks that's a great video! Josh is from somewhere in Texas he's been at comps here. I think I have been messing up my Q alg so that would definitely kill a solve, I may switch to his version.


----------



## newtonbase (Aug 12, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> @Jason Green, hang on in there, it will get easier! Sighted solves help a lot.
> 
> For those wanting to push their M2 to the next level, this came out recently and is really good (check out part 2 as well):


They are very good videos. There's a few bits in there that are new to me including some nice M slice algs.


----------



## mafergut (Aug 12, 2017)

Hi guys! I'm on vacation (and my wife isn't) so I might have some more time to cube, even if only for a couple of weeks.

I've done more than 600 skewb solves and got Ao50 down to 10.5x. I've decided to order an XMD Magnetic "Wingy" to see if it helps with grip because my biggest problem right now is the cube slipping in my hands (and terrible hedge execution). Any other suggestions for a good skewb with good grip? To keep it company in the box I have also ordered the new 50mm Mini MF3RS and the XMD Magnetic "Bell" Pyraminx as I find the Moyu Magnetic one a bit too uncontrollable. I had to refrain from ordering also the Yuexiao Pro, the new Dayan Zhanchi 2017 and some other new cubes but I have enough 3x3s for a lifetime, unless somebody comes up with something really epic good! 

I also tied my 3x3 PB Ao12 (16.66) right now with my Weilong GTS2M (mass produced version). I might be starting to like the magnets. I also did a few more solves with the Wushuang M but no PBs. I can feel my average could drop below 2:30 as soon as I get used to it, though.

From my last non-WCA cube order, I have just solved once the LanLan Master Skewb. I had a hard time with the corners. I still have to try all the others (3x3x3 Mixup Plus, Bermuda Venus, Camouflage, ...). The Qiyi 2x2x3 is very nice to turn but so terribly boring / easy to solve.


----------



## pglewis (Aug 12, 2017)

pipkiksass said:


> Hi folks, just checking in - how is everyone? I've been snooping around the thread occasionally, but far too busy these days to get overly involved. I'm struggling to find enough time to cube, let alone hang about on the forums!



Glad to see a check-in; it's been a little while, though I figured practice time has been a challenge.



h2f said:


> My PB ao5 and single from last comp. I'm very happy about it. After 46 solve I needed 2 good solves so I pushed myself to do it. And it worked. 46 solve was just crap from the beginning - bad cross, poor f2l and mess during Aperm at 20 seconds. I knew it's bad so I didnt hurry to solve the cube.



Even I did a fist pump on the 15.x! Well done keeping your composure.



Fyzzna said:


> So after putting it off multiple times, I've finally started learning proper CMLL  Currently learning one set every one or two days so it shouldn't take me that long either.
> I have to say I enjoy this quite a bit more than 2look. Should've probably made the switch sooner (as everyone suggested) as it might take a while for my recognition to get up to speed now.



It wasn't so long ago you and I were roughly the same speed, get thee to a comp pronto!



Jason Green said:


> M2 kind of kicked my butt this week. I didn't have much time to practice and when I did I was tired so that's not good. I think I was really messing up my set up moves mostly, along with some bad memo and possibly doing the I/S algs wrong. Usually when I double checked my memo it was correct. I had done success on 4 of 5 OP solves before switching so it was a little discouraging. I finally got an M2 success before leaving work today so maybe it will get better. I do like it though.



There have been a few occasions thus far where I've needed focused sessions of sighted blind, myself. It's easy to know what went wrong with just a couple flipped edges and/or corners but I've occasionally hit spells where I end up with too many failures without a clue where it went afoul. A solid practice session or two of peeking to verify things after every piece usually does the trick. Just solving sighted M2/OP "on the fly" without tracing cycles has also been a useful exercise for me to get my Speffz letters more automatic since the letters are coming at you like flash cards.


----------



## pglewis (Aug 12, 2017)

As for me, I'm smack in the middle of a busy spell with work followed by an interruption this coming week where life is all eclipse planning, all the time. I'll be heading down to TN and camping on a farm about a mile from the center-line hoping for good weather; I'd really like to experience totality. 

I'll be doubling-up on practice after that in prep for comp next month. Despite the fact that I care most about normal 3x3 and this will by my first 3bld attempt... I'll probably be most nervous about Pyraminx because I'm awful and I _never_ practice it. The only method I know is the same one I used as a kid: solve one side, solve a different side, maybe I'm done maybe I repeat that one more time.


----------



## newtonbase (Aug 12, 2017)

pglewis said:


> There have been a few occasions thus far where I've needed focused sessions of sighted blind, myself.


This probably happens to us all. Sometimes you just need to go back and look at the basics.


----------



## Jason Green (Aug 12, 2017)

Well I think at least the major kinks from moving to M2 are gone. Getting many more successes now and when I don't it's usually a memo wrong, which is where I was before. Had couple more 7 minutes and a 6:49.  That video from Josh helped a ton with Q, and H and N too.


----------



## newtonbase (Aug 13, 2017)

Jason Green said:


> Well I think at least the major kinks from moving to M2 are gone. Getting many more successes now and when I don't it's usually a memo wrong, which is where I was before. Had couple more 7 minutes and a 6:49.  That video from Josh helped a ton with Q, and H and N too.


The H and N setups are really nice. I learnt them from the start but unfortunately they don't work on 4x4. I use a similar alg to the Q setup to flip that piece so I have no excuse to not change to it other than inertia.


----------



## mafergut (Aug 13, 2017)

Jason Green said:


> Well I think at least the major kinks from moving to M2 are gone. Getting many more successes now and when I don't it's usually a memo wrong, which is where I was before. Had couple more 7 minutes and a 6:49.  That video from Josh helped a ton with Q, and H and N too.



You have already beaten the best time I got when I learned M2 (7:26). At this pace you'll be close to 2-3min in no time 

Getting more and more the hang of the intermediate skewb cases myself. Nice 8.1x Ao5 and 9.1x Ao12 PBs today.


----------



## newtonbase (Aug 13, 2017)

If I were to be solving 3BLD in around a minute then what splits might I be looking at roughly?


----------



## mark49152 (Aug 13, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> If I were to be solving 3BLD in around a minute then what splits might I be looking at roughly?


I'm around a minute and my splits are roughly 22/24/14.


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## Jason Green (Aug 14, 2017)

Did a little 3x3 practice (blind has taken over lately) and got this nice PB. Try the scramble from the image, if you do white cross you'll very likely have the same solution it's so easy. 

I'll just reconstruct since I keep forgetting to do them.
Inspection: X2
D F' R' F'
U' R U' R'
Y R U' R '
Y U2 R U R' R' U' R (written that way because I did not execute as R2')
U2 R U R'
U' G Perm


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## oneshot (Aug 14, 2017)

I thought I'd take a minute to kinda introduce myself, as everyone here seems so friendly. I'm Brian, I'm 43, been kind of a serial hobbiest. But as I'm getting older, I'm becoming a minimalist. So I tried to find a hobby where there wasn't a lot of "stuff/equipment", and I thought cubing fit the bill. I'm a math/science type guy and found out about memory competitions and blind solving. I really thought I'd only do blind solving, but lately have learned the 4x4 and I'm learning Ortega for the 2x2. I've done two competitions, one where I DNF'd all three blind solves, and one where I got 7:16. I'm trying to get my 7 year old daughter to compete in 2x2, but she doesn't really like practicing. That's about it. I look forward to learning more and more, with a goal of going to nationals next year for MBLD.


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## newtonbase (Aug 14, 2017)

oneshot said:


> I thought I'd take a minute to kinda introduce myself, as everyone here seems so friendly. I'm Brian, I'm 43, been kind of a serial hobbiest. But as I'm getting older, I'm becoming a minimalist. So I tried to find a hobby where there wasn't a lot of "stuff/equipment", and I thought cubing fit the bill. I'm a math/science type guy and found out about memory competitions and blind solving. I really thought I'd only do blind solving, but lately have learned the 4x4 and I'm learning Ortega for the 2x2. I've done two competitions, one where I DNF'd all three blind solves, and one where I got 7:16. I'm trying to get my 7 year old daughter to compete in 2x2, but she doesn't really like practicing. That's about it. I look forward to learning more and more, with a goal of going to nationals next year for MBLD.


Hi Brian. You'll fit in perfectly here. Lots of us enjoy blind.


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## mafergut (Aug 14, 2017)

Hi Brian / @oneshot and welcome to this forum. You will feel in perfect company here and I'm sure you will find very nice advice for BLD (not from me, though!).

Congrats @Jason Green! That's a great single. Don't make me go back to practising 3x3 to try and improve my 11.03! 

Today I finally got down my running skewb Ao50 to below 10 seconds (9.93). Ao100 still 10.4x.

EDIT: 100 solves later... Make that 9.17 Ao50 and 9.64 Ao100!!! Also PB single 3.77, Ao5 6.34 and Ao12 7.58. Wanted to be sub-10 global but... it might well be sub-9. Cannot wait to try my new Wingy skewb


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## Shaky Hands (Aug 14, 2017)

@oneshot - Welcome Brian. Good to have you here.


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## Chree (Aug 14, 2017)

Been a while since I posted here, but I wanted to brag:

Got my first sub10 in comp this past weekend! Got a 9.33 in the first round of 3x3 at Northwest Champs.

Is there a stat for the oldest person to get their first sub10? I would like to open bidding at 32 years old


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## muchacho (Aug 14, 2017)

I think Ron van Bruchem got a 9.55 (WR) at 40.


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## Chree (Aug 14, 2017)

Ah, makes sense. Ron's a beast.


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## Jason Green (Aug 15, 2017)

Chree said:


> Been a while since I posted here, but I wanted to brag:
> 
> Got my first sub10 in comp this past weekend! Got a 9.33 in the first round of 3x3 at Northwest Champs.
> 
> Is there a stat for the oldest person to get their first sub10? I would like to open bidding at 32 years old


Congrats! I may be 45 before I get one.  Or never.


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## mafergut (Aug 15, 2017)

Jason Green said:


> Congrats! I may be 45 before I get one.  Or never.


At home you can get one sub-10 any day. You are already so close. In competition that's a completely different story as you have so little opportunities but if you continue progressing you certainly can get one eventually.

I don't think I'll ever get one, even at home (at a comp it would be really difficult as I haven't been to any yet and I'm not planning on going to one anytime soon).


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## pipkiksass (Aug 15, 2017)

mafergut said:


> At home you can get one sub-10 any day. You are already so close. In competition that's a completely different story as you have so little opportunities but if you continue progressing you certainly can get one eventually.
> 
> I don't think I'll ever get one, even at home (at a comp it would be really difficult as I haven't been to any yet and I'm not planning on going to one anytime soon).


This!

Would love one day to go to a comp.

May get a sub 10 at home, but if a tree falls in the woods...

In other news, magnets for my WuQue arrived today, plan is to do the whole project tonight, but I'll believe that when I see it!!!

Edit: ok, turns out magnetising a 4x4 is surprisingly easy, despite requiring 96 magnets to be very precisely placed... 

30 mins to disassemble, including dismantling edges and corners.

1hr 15 for placing and glueing magnets.

40 mins to reassemble. After trying the fiddly job of reassembling a 4x4 the traditional way, I remembered you can assemble a magnetic 4x4 as a void cube, so built the corner "blocks" and posted internals into gaps.

Fun!


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## earth2dan (Aug 16, 2017)

Been a loooong time since I checked in. This thread never ceases to amaze me. What a great community 

You all are progressing so much. I won't even try to comment individually so I'll just issue a global congrats to @everyone! on all the progress and PB's.

@Jason Green That Scramble!!! I gave it a go and obliterated my old PB of 12.9x with a 10.31. I'm afraid to count it because I may never beat it. I reconstructed and did almost the exact same solve as you. Only difference was I inserted the 2nd F2L pair from the back, and did my G Perm from the opposite side, because that alg just works better for me.

D F' R' F'
U' R U' R'
Y' L U' L'
Y' U2 R U R2' U' R
U2 R U R'
U G Perm (R2' F2 R U2 R U2' R' F R U R' U' R' F R2)


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## mafergut (Aug 16, 2017)

Well, the WuQue M is starting to bring some PBs. New PB Ao5 1:07.01 (down from 1:07.30). PB Ao12 1:08.47 (down from 1:10.66 and first sub 1:10 Ao12).

Hi @earth2dan long time no see! Hope you are enjoying the summer (and everyone else in the northern hemisphere as well, of course).


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## mark49152 (Aug 16, 2017)

Brief progress update.

This month I'm focused on 5BLD as that's what's on at my next comp in two weeks. I have been trying to make time to do a couple of attempts each day. In the last 3 weeks I've managed 30 attempts, which although modest is still my most intensive ever spell of 5BLD practice . 13 of those were successes, with an average time including DNFs of 13:14. My times are not plummeting, but they are getting more consistent. My hope is to just get more consistent and accurate around the 13 minute mark, in the hope that I can fit 3 attempts into the 40 minutes allowed, and get lucky with one of them. 

5BLD is a pretty taxing event. I find it much more tiring to do a few 5BLDs than the same number of 4-cube MBLDs, even though it's the same amount of memo.


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## Mike Hughey (Aug 16, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> 5BLD is a pretty taxing event. I find it much more tiring to do a few 5BLDs than the same number of 4-cube MBLDs, even though it's the same amount of memo.


Fascinating. I find the opposite true. 4-cube multis are much more taxing for me than 5BLDs. And I'm slower at them too.

I've always felt like I'm doing something wrong with multi, since it seems so disproportionately harder for me than single-puzzle big BLD.


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## mark49152 (Aug 17, 2017)

Mike Hughey said:


> Fascinating. I find the opposite true. 4-cube multis are much more taxing for me than 5BLDs. And I'm slower at them too.
> 
> I've always felt like I'm doing something wrong with multi, since it seems so disproportionately harder for me than single-puzzle big BLD.


That surprises me, and I haven't previously put much thought into why I find 5BLD more taxing than MBLD, as intuitively it seemed natural to me that it would be. Some factors:-

- Generally more information on the cube thus requiring more visual attention to discern the pieces of interest. For example, tracing corners and midges feels like harder work than tracing a 3x3 because of all the extra colour information surrounding the pieces.

- More piece types so more to to think about. By comparison, MBLD is just doing the same thing over and over.

- Longer cycles feel like harder work especially when there are late breaks to deal with and the missing targets are harder to identify.

- Centres feel like harder work because of the additional attention required to avoid shooting to the same target twice.

- Reviews are harder because it's not always easy to quickly identify the first pair in a group to jog the memory, especially with centres. For example, if I forget my second group of T-centres, I have to partly re-trace the first group to determine what the first pair of the second would have been. By contrast, it's fast and easy to review in MBLD because it takes only half a second to check the first pair and that's often enough to prompt recall.

- Execution is more fiddly, and involves more complex techniques and algs.

- Result is all or nothing, which can make it more frustrating to practise than MBLD.

This probably also explains why my accuracy is significantly worse for 5BLD (~40%) than for 4-cube MBLD attempts (~80%).


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## Mike Hughey (Aug 17, 2017)

That's all very interesting, and most of it makes sense. But as for me, I find the following factors that totally push it in the other direction for me:

- I find twisted corners and flipped edges to be outrageously untidy. It leaves my 3x3x3 memo feeling like a mess, and I hate it. With a single big BLD I can put the corners in visual memory and just devote a single location to flipped middle edges. Much less mess; much less taxing.

- I find that the type of pieces being different often spurs my memory on things I've forgotten through visual recall - I can remember what a next piece was because of visual memory of that location. With multi cubes, they all run together so that's not possible.

- The repetitive nature of multi is something I find draining. The variety of pieces in big BLD keeps me interested and alert, so I'm more likely to do my best.

- I cycle through several separate rooms that I have set up for each big cube, but I have just a single route dedicated to multi. Probably all this says is that I just don't care as much about multi. But that's probably because I find it so much more unpleasant to do.

- I don't like corner/edge parity much. I suppose with my recent switch to solving edges first, parity is a little easier now, so maybe I should see how this has improved for me now.

- I never liked the fact that, with multi, as you get better the event doesn't get shorter. That doesn't affect a 4 cube multi, but it is part of why I don't like multi as much, so I don't practice it much. Which is probably really saying that the main reason I find multi more taxing may simply be that I don't practice it enough.


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## newtonbase (Aug 17, 2017)

It looks like it depends on whether you view the intricacies of big blind as more interesting or hardier work.



Mike Hughey said:


> I never liked the fact that, with multi, as you get better the event doesn't get shorter.


I hadn't thought about that before. It's a bit like the one hour endurance event in cycling but with a chance of added disappointment after the finish.


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## mark49152 (Aug 17, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> It looks like it depends on whether you view the intricacies of big blind as more interesting or hardier work.


The intricacies make it both more interesting and harder work, for me, when comparing big BLD with MBLD attempts of similar size. Of course, large MBLD attempts are even more taxing, and somewhat boring .

Two things strike me about your counter points, Mike. The first is system. If you're used to more visual memory and reliance on different piece types to help your memory then yes that will give the advantage to 5BLD. It sounds like you generally have a better developed system for 5BLD than you do for MBLD. For me it's mostly the same. I rotate the same sets of rooms for big BLD and MBLD and use the same methods for memorizing targets, flips, twists and parities. I don't use any visual memory, nor audio. The only difference between my memo for these events is that the structured and consistent approach I take to MBLD memo and review doesn't translate so well to 5BLD for the reasons I gave above.

The second point is just practice, and I guess it's related anyway. The more time you put in and the more you care, the easier it gets, and the more you hone your system. I actually didn't practice either event much until the past year, preferring 3BLD and 4BLD instead. I started to practise MBLD about a year ago when I realised that relying on 3BLD skills was not enough when pushing for bigger numbers of cubes, and so I set out specifically to lay down a system to fix the problems I saw. My MBLD system is therefore quite methodically worked out, and I track all my progress against it, like split times and weaknesses. That encourages me to practise too. By contrast, my 5BLD system evolved organically. As I started to practise more, I tried to apply some of what I'd done for MBLD, with mixed success for the reasons described above. It's much more untidy and unreliable. To get significantly better at 5BLD, I probably need to rethink my system and make some changes, and that might make practising it more fun too, but for now it's still my #4 out of the BLD events.


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## Mike Hughey (Aug 17, 2017)

All that makes sense, Mark. And I do think there's a lot to be said that whatever you've practiced most becomes what you enjoy most.

As for me, 5BLD is my #1 favorite among all WCA events!  (And perhaps I should mention that I love 7BLD much more still?) And multi is my #4 out of the BLD events. So yeah, it's a difference in perspective and preference, clearly.


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## mark49152 (Aug 17, 2017)

I still have never got an obliques-only success in 6BLD .

Interesting discussion, thanks Mike. It's motivated me to try a few changes with 5BLD. I might try using a different memo order today if I get time.

Regarding preferences, at home I would say I enjoy 3, 4, M then 5. Competitively I prefer 4, M, 3 then 5 because I have a tendency to choke on nerves with 3BLD as a shorter event. Really those orders are just based on descending potential for frustration and shouldn't be interpreted that I don't like 5BLD. I enjoy the overall process of blindsolving equally for all events. Sighted events I barely practise at all these days.

I have a suspicion I might recall this conversation in a couple of years when 5BLD is my favourite because I'm still improving with it and have plateaued with everything else .

Mark @newtonbase, how is your progress? Did you start 4BLD yet? That was your plan after Worlds wasn't it?


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## JohnnyReggae (Aug 17, 2017)

2 and a half years of speedcubing and timing my solves and I've eventually reached 50 000 timed solves. A goal of mine since starting was to get under 10 seconds, which I have managed .... once  Although I'm coming closer more consistently lately so I suppose it's only a matter of time before it happens again.

As a hobby I have really enjoyed Speedcubing and just puzzle solving in general. I have a number of non-WCA puzzles and some I've made/modded myself.

Here's to another 50 000 solves, eager to get to 100 000 now


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## newtonbase (Aug 17, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> Mark @newtonbase, how is your progress? Did you start 4BLD yet? That was your plan after Worlds wasn't it?


I've only tried 4bld once so far. It's almost impossible for me to get the dedicated practice time I need so I've been working on different parts at a time. I have centres only successes and wings only. I do make an awful lot of execution errors but I'm sure I'll get there in time for Weston.
3BLD is going fairly well. I'm doing some time limited memo that has exposed my main weakness of slow visual memo. Although this lunchtime I've had nothing but DNFs which is frustrating. All practice helps though.
EDIT: 11 fails from 11 attempts. It's like being at a competition.


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## Jason Green (Aug 17, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> I still have never got an obliques-only success in 6BLD .
> 
> Interesting discussion, thanks Mike. It's motivated me to try a few changes with 5BLD. I might try using a different memo order today if I get time.
> 
> ...


Very interesting conversations! I'm getting around 40% success on 3BLD so far, and it's hard to even imagine learning 4 or 5 BLD yet. Of course I'm the type who likes to focus on not too many things before moving on. I did solely 3x3 for about a year before I went to 4x4 after starting cubing. I still practice very little 5x5 even though it's fun because I want to be closer to 1:00 at 4x4. However BLD is definitely taking the majority of my practice time right now and it's really fun, I think I'm officially on the dark side... Maybe. 

I've learned to never say never with cubing. When I started learning CFOP a couple years ago and watched bad mephistos videos, I remember thinking oh I'll never learn full OLL that's crazy. Also I remember him talking about limiting rotations was good, and being over a minute I really could not comprehend it mattered. Like how does half a second to rotate matter I thought!  So I have no idea what I'll be into in the coming years. Who knows maybe someday I'll get a megaminx.


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## newtonbase (Aug 17, 2017)

Jason Green said:


> Very interesting conversations! I'm getting around 40% success on 3BLD so far, and it's hard to even imagine learning 4 or 5 BLD yet. Of course I'm the type who likes to focus on not too many things before moving on. I did solely 3x3 for about a year before I went to 4x4 after starting cubing. I still practice very little 5x5 even though it's fun because I want to be closer to 1:00 at 4x4. However BLD is definitely taking the majority of my practice time right now and it's really fun, I think I'm officially on the dark side... Maybe.
> 
> I've learned to never say never with cubing. When I started learning CFOP a couple years ago and watched bad mephistos videos, I remember thinking oh I'll never learn full OLL that's crazy. Also I remember him talking about limiting rotations was good, and being over a minute I really could not comprehend it mattered. Like how does half a second to rotate matter I thought!  So I have no idea what I'll be into in the coming years. Who knows maybe someday I'll get a megaminx.


MegaBLD looks quite good fun!


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## mark49152 (Aug 17, 2017)

@newtonbase, @Jason Green : Glad to hear the 3BLD is going well.

I remember when I started 4BLD it was a major step up from 3BLD in difficulty, complexity and amount of memo. Definitely a challenge. Like sighted solving though, it has the bonus that 3BLD seems easy when you go back to it .

At lunch today I tried changing my 5BLD memo order. I used to memo in reverse of exec order just doing ad-hoc reviews until it seemed to have stuck. Now I have a more complicated scheme where I do (i) fast initial 3BLD memo, (ii) T-centres, wings then full review of 3BLD, all in execution order, (iii) quick review of everything in exec order without retracing, and (iv) rushed X centres, no review. All with images. Then execute X, T, wings, 3BLD. The rationale is that doing the memo and review in execution order will help with recall especially where I can link scenes. The two-phase 3BLD memo will help it stick better since that's what I have to hold in memory longest and that's what I do for MBLD. 

Results so far - four DNFs . But the times were OK and I think I like the system better. It feels a bit more natural and I particularly like not memoing T and X centres consecutively.


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## mafergut (Aug 17, 2017)

@JohnnyReggae Congratulations. Your progress is impressive for 2.5 years. I've been cubing for 4 years already and I have yet to get a 10.xx, much less a sub-10.

@Jason Green You still don't own a Megaminx? And what are you waiting for?  Same with 6x6 and 7x7 and skewb and pyraminx and SQ-1 if you don't have any of those either.

I just finished my first skewb Ao1000 after learning Intermediate (letting the cases sink in took another 500 solves or so, which I discarded). It came in right under sub-10 (9.94), with best Ao100 at 9.22 and best Ao50 at 8.86. Wish I could do the same with Pyraminx in 3-4 days but that's more difficult without learning several methods and practising much more. Anyway, following Jason's advice I will try to focus on one event at a time and I think I can still save a second or so in skewb... before my vacation period ends and I go back to "little or no practise" status.


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## h2f (Aug 17, 2017)

mafergut said:


> Wish I could do the same with Pyraminx in 3-4 days but that's more difficult without learning several methods and practising much more.



I've heard with LBL you can get the same result (sub 10) easily.


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## mafergut (Aug 17, 2017)

h2f said:


> I've heard with LBL you can get the same result (sub 10) easily.



I do keyhole and I have a hard time getting below 10 but it's been more than 1 year since I last practised. My PB Ao5 from 1.5 years ago was 9.57 but Ao100 was barely below 15 back then.

When I said it was not as easy as with skewb is because just changing from Sarah's beginners to intermediate makes up for more than 50% of the 5 seconds I improved at skewb in one week. I don't think it will be that simple with Pyra. My worst part of keyhole is inspection (I can just see the two middle layer edges and that's it) and then, after using the keyhole slot to orient all the bottom centers, I'm terrible at finding the 3rd middle layer edge and inserting it. I'm also terrible at fixing the tips. So my only meh step (I'm not that good either) is permuting the last 3 bottom edges. I will be glad to receive any specific advice. I know that at least @Logiqx is significantly faster that me at Pyra.


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## newtonbase (Aug 17, 2017)

Someone has just posted your 10/10 square-1 MBLD video on Cyoubx's Friends @Mike Hughey. Very impressive.


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## Mike Hughey (Aug 17, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> Someone has just posted your 10/10 square-1 MBLD video on Cyoubx's Friends @Mike Hughey. Very impressive.


Thank you. The point of doing 10 was to prove I could really handle any scramble, not just a lucky cubeshape.

Square-1 BLD is such fun because it's so different - you have to decode one memorization as you encode another. That experience is a very different feeling from other BLD.

Unfortunately, I've forgotten my permanent memo. I hope to get it back again once I finish updating the weekly competition website.


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## newtonbase (Aug 17, 2017)

Mike Hughey said:


> Thank you. The point of doing 10 was to prove I could really handle any scramble, not just a lucky cubeshape.
> 
> Square-1 BLD is such fun because it's so different - you have to decode one memorization as you encode another. That experience is a very different feeling from other BLD.
> 
> Unfortunately, I've forgotten my permanent memo. I hope to get it back again once I finish updating the weekly competition website.


It would be interesting to see the method though I've yet to learn to solve one sighted.


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## Mike Hughey (Aug 17, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> It would be interesting to see the method though I've yet to learn to solve one sighted.


I just noticed the mobile version of this forum is not showing signatures. I was going to point out that the page describing my method is in my signature. But maybe you can't see my signature?

If not, you can find the link in the information section of my profile page.


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## mafergut (Aug 17, 2017)

That's absolutely insane, Mike. I didn't even know that it was possible to solve a square-1 blindfolded.


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## mark49152 (Aug 18, 2017)

For anyone who doesn't want to hunt for it:






And method: http://skarrie.se/square1blind/

Insane .


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## Jason Green (Aug 18, 2017)

mafergut said:


> @JohnnyReggae Congratulations. Your progress is impressive for 2.5 years. I've been cubing for 4 years already and I have yet to get a 10.xx, much less a sub-10.
> 
> @Jason Green You still don't own a Megaminx? And what are you waiting for?  Same with 6x6 and 7x7 and skewb and pyraminx and SQ-1 if you don't have any of those either.
> 
> I just finished my first skewb Ao1000 after learning Intermediate (letting the cases sink in took another 500 solves or so, which I discarded). It came in right under sub-10 (9.94), with best Ao100 at 9.22 and best Ao50 at 8.86. Wish I could do the same with Pyraminx in 3-4 days but that's more difficult without learning several methods and practising much more. Anyway, following Jason's advice I will try to focus on one event at a time and I think I can still save a second or so in skewb... before my vacation period ends and I go back to "little or no practise" status.


I own a skewb and pyraminx and actually have competed in them. But I'm like 20 seconds and don't practice. I used to have the opinion compete in all you can solve, but the next comp has pyra and I'm not doing it. I'd rather spend the time warming up, practicing, or chatting than do something I care so little and am really bad at. But I still do 2x2. 

That wasn't meant as advice so much as my preference. I've just always been one to get bothered with trying to do too much and not improving at anything. 



Mike Hughey said:


> I just noticed the mobile version of this forum is not showing signatures. I was going to point out that the page describing my method is in my signature. But maybe you can't see my signature?
> 
> If not, you can find the link in the information section of my profile page.


On mobile if you click the username, then click the name again in the pop-up it takes you to a page. On there if you click information in the little table you can see the signature. It's not too cumbersome but a little.


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## newtonbase (Aug 18, 2017)

Mike Hughey said:


> I just noticed the mobile version of this forum is not showing signatures. I was going to point out that the page describing my method is in my signature. But maybe you can't see my signature?
> 
> If not, you can find the link in the information section of my profile page.


Yes, and if I use my phone rather than my tablet I don't even get the WCA ID and YouTube links but I suppose it's down to space. 
Thanks for the link. It's interesting but I don't think I will be learning it. Too many other things ahead in the queue.


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## Jason Green (Aug 18, 2017)

I had 4/7 success tonight on blind practice, so I stopped. I was starting to feel tired and figured I wanted a session with over 50% for once. I had one 5:16.xx which I think is a PB. It was an easy scramble. I'm anxious to break 5 minutes. Some are still 10 or more though. Sometimes I'll be looking at a target wrong for so long! Like trying to put green/yellow into the green/white spot. And if the rest of the memo seems to work I don't even catch it, that's the biggest reason for my failures still, memo wrong.


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## pipkiksass (Aug 18, 2017)

I'd been flirting with sub-1 single on 4x4 since popping magnets in my WuQue... PB was 1:01.xx, then yesterday had a 1:00.5x DNF, E perm which I'd mistakenly thought had PLL parity...

Anyway, Ao5 is down from 1:07 to 1:05.081, Ao12 is down from 1:10.52 to 1:09.39, Ao100 down from 1:19.xx to 1:15.730 (and falling), but just DEMOLISHED my single PB with 54.834. First sub-1, and it's almost 6 seconds faster than my second fastest ever solve.

Go figure.

Sorry, had to share!!!


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## mafergut (Aug 18, 2017)

pipkiksass said:


> I'd been flirting with sub-1 single on 4x4 [...]
> 
> Anyway, Ao5 is down from 1:07 to 1:05.081, Ao12 is down from 1:10.52 to 1:09.39, Ao100 down from 1:19.xx to 1:15.730 (and falling), but just DEMOLISHED my single PB with 54.834. First sub-1, and it's almost 6 seconds faster than my second fastest ever solve.



That must be the correct way to do it, because my PB single also went from 1:01.22 to 55.33. I have got another 4 sub-1 singles since then but no PB (closest was 55.37 though, the rest are all 59.xx). Congratulations. It tastes great, right? At least for me it was almost compensation enough for the still missing 3x3 sub-10. You are right now so close to my own times that it almost deserves a race to sub-something 

Continuing with my skewb PB streak. Another 150 solves into my second Ao1000 with Sarah Intermediate and, bam! 8.72 Ao100 and 8.24 Ao50. And that was before my XMD Wingy came in the mail 15 minutes ago. First impressions: instant main out of the box. The concave design not only helps with grip but also with fingertrick turning by pushing the corners.

With it in the same package I got an XMD Bell Pyra. Also instant main, very similar feeling to the Moyu Magnetic but more stable and the stronger magnets almost make it wanna finish the turn for you. Finally I also got a 50mm Cubing Classroom 3x3. Very nice puzzle. It turns even better than an MF3RS and locks up less. I bought it as a collection item but I could see me using it and not only for OH but for 2H as well. For less than $2 it's worth every cent.


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## earth2dan (Aug 18, 2017)

Dang. @pipkiksass and @mafergut last time I checked in we were all around the same times on 4x4. Now you're both posting sub 1:00's and I'm actually slower than before :/

Any specific tips? or is it just practice practice practice?

It's been a good summer, but earlier this week I went down pretty hard on my bike and got some ugly road rash on my leg, as well as some other bumps and bruises. So I'm somewhat limited to activities till this heals up a bit. The downside is I'm missing out on summer fun times, the upside is... I'm cubing again 

I haven't ordered any new cubes in a dogs age. I've got about $100 CAD to blow. Any suggestions?


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## pipkiksass (Aug 18, 2017)

earth2dan said:


> Dang. @pipkiksass and @mafergut last time I checked in we were all around the same times on 4x4. Now you're both posting sub 1:00's and I'm actually slower than before :/
> 
> Any specific tips? or is it just practice practice practice?
> 
> ...


Ouch! Hope you're healing up ok?!

Buy some magnets and make a make a decent cube AWESOME? Fun and frugal at the same time!!

I'll give you the same 4x4 tips I gave @kbrune a couple of weeks ago. Again, I'm going to assume you use Yau?!

Plan first centre fully in inspection. Try your best to look ahead a bit from second centre to cross edges, and remember cross edges is the hardest part of Yau. 

IMHO cross edges is the step where we could all improve most - we're all solid 3x3 solvers, but I'd bet my life that any sub-30 Yau solver gets to L4C in WELL under half the time it takes me to get there. 

From there on, it's all about fluidity - smooth L4C, not screwing up edge pairing, or not getting bad cases, then good 3x3 stage. TBH I don't think there's huge improvements we can make at these steps - you have bad solves where you get bad edge cases or double parity, but it's just a matter of practice. I reckon I could be sub-1 if I was better at F2C and cross edges, without changing anything about the rest of my solve whatsoever.


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## earth2dan (Aug 18, 2017)

pipkiksass said:


> Ouch! Hope you're healing up ok?!
> 
> Buy some magnets and make a make a decent cube AWESOME? Fun and frugal at the same time!!
> 
> ...



Pretty uncomfortable, but on the mend. Thanks 

I've been wanting to get in on this magnet craze for a while, but not yet willing to pay for a cubicle one. Is there a specific guide anyone here followed and would recommend?

For 4x4. Yes I'm a Yau solver. Though I solve my cross edges on bottom rather than the left side like many Yau solvers do. I also place them in order rather than misaligning one edge like some do. My F2C is pretty solid, I can usually plan most of it in inspection. But cross edges, L4C and edge pairing are all equally bad I think. I know I just need focused practice, like I did to get sub-20 3x3. I shouldn't expect 4x4 progress to come any easier than 3x3 did...


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## Mike Hughey (Aug 18, 2017)

I'm really surprised how everyone does Yau now. I guess I should really learn it?

And I still use AVG for 5x5x5+ edges. About once a year I try to learn freeslice edges, I work on it for several months and get better, then discover my AVG is still 10 to 15 seconds faster, even for bigger cubes.


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## mark49152 (Aug 18, 2017)

Mike Hughey said:


> I'm really surprised how everyone does Yau now. I guess I should really learn it?
> 
> And I still use AVG for 5x5x5+ edges. About once a year I try to learn freeslice edges, I work on it for several months and get better, then discover my AVG is still 10 to 15 seconds faster, even for bigger cubes.


Same here. I find AvG so much easier for lookahead. With Freeslice I find myself just turning the cube around getting impatient with it for half the solve. I am persevering with it anyway on 6x6+ though.

Have you looked into Hoya as an alternative to Yau?


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## mafergut (Aug 18, 2017)

@earth2dan I agree with @pipkiksass and in my case cross edges is probably the worst part as well. But don't get a wrong idea. We are talking about our 1st sub-1min solves. That's it, the rest are still above 1:05 for the most part, at least in my case. The only advice I can give you is practice, practice, practice... and a good cube helps. But I got there without magnets, with a standard WuQue. Now I got a magnetized one and I have to admit that I am more consistent with it but any sub-1 or close to that is still a lucky solve.


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## Mike Hughey (Aug 18, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> Same here. I find AvG so much easier for lookahead. With Freeslice I find myself just turning the cube around getting impatient with it for half the solve. I am persevering with it anyway on 6x6+ though.
> 
> Have you looked into Hoya as an alternative to Yau?


Actually, I had never even given Yau a chance. I just did my first ever 25 Yau solves. First one was 4:34.70; last one was 1:41.89.  I might just learn to like Yau!


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## mark49152 (Aug 19, 2017)

Mike Hughey said:


> Actually, I had never even given Yau a chance. I just did my first ever 25 Yau solves. First one was 4:34.70; last one was 1:41.89.  I might just learn to like Yau!


Hoya is worth a look before you commit to Yau. Hoya is to Yau what AvG is to Freeslice. AvG is a little less move efficient but allows for easier lookahead and fewer pauses because you only have to look for one piece at a time. Likewise Hoya lets you build the cross edges in place, like Yau, but one piece at a time instead of having to find both matching pieces to pair up. Hoya seems to be growing in popularity especially with intermediate cubers.


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## One Wheel (Aug 19, 2017)

earth2dan said:


> I haven't ordered any new cubes in a dogs age. I've got about $100 CAD to blow. Any suggestions?



I just spent about that on my first puzzle order in a while. I ordered Qiyi and Yuxin megaminxes, Cyclone Boys G6, Qiyi Wuji, and SS Gigaminx. What I can't tell you for certain is whether any of that is worth it, but it's what I'm looking forward to. My intention is to at least attempt to magnetize everything except the gigaminx. I might get carried away, though.


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## Jason Green (Aug 19, 2017)

earth2dan said:


> Dang. @pipkiksass and @mafergut last time I checked in we were all around the same times on 4x4. Now you're both posting sub 1:00's and I'm actually slower than before :/
> 
> Any specific tips? or is it just practice practice practice?
> 
> ...


The Wuque M is definitely awesome! My normal Wuque may have been from another batch someone said but it's nothing like the M even though I have tried some to set it up. I also have a 55 single but still average close to 1:20. 



Mike Hughey said:


> Actually, I had never even given Yau a chance. I just did my first ever 25 Yau solves. First one was 4:34.70; last one was 1:41.89.  I might just learn to like Yau!


I really like Hoya! Mike DeCock compared it a long time back that Hoya to Yau was like Petrus to CFOP, or maybe he said Roux to CFOP. Hoya just feels very intuitive to me, but I've never tried Yau much. I don't like the idea of keeping the stuff on the side and having limited movement. 

Honestly I don't even think I know what Avg is, I'm going to look that up now.


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## Mike Hughey (Aug 19, 2017)

Thanks guys; I'll give Hoya a try sometime this weekend.


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## pipkiksass (Aug 19, 2017)

earth2dan said:


> I've been wanting to get in on this magnet craze for a while, but not yet willing to pay for a cubicle one. Is there a specific guide anyone here followed and would recommend?


I've done guides for both the Valk and WuQue. I can look them up, but a forum search for... maybe something like pipkiksass magnet WuQue/Valk should pick it up. Happy to answer any questions. I'm no expert, but can help you avoid making some of the mistakes I made early on. I haven't had the opportunity to compare my DIY M's to cubicle's offerings, but they're pretty darn good IMHO compared to their stock equivalents.


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## kbrune (Aug 19, 2017)

Hey all! Ive been lurking instead of posting the last 2 weeks. The following pics will explain. I sort of hit a wall after being angry. so stupid. Anyway since then i've just been popping on a readign posts a bit. Jealous of my inability to practice anthing anymore. In the last few days though my broken has felt better and i decided to resume 4bld practice. Well.. i managed a first success of 26:32.11 (2 cheats - check after centers and check after wings since it was a first attempt)

It was a fairly easy scramble as far as i could tell. no cycle breaks in center memo and 1 cycle break in wings which made it easier. Not sure ill be replying much. typing is a huge pain in the ass. but pretty glad im able to practice something while i heal up. Turning is cumbersome and slow but that's normal with 2 healthy hand while learning any new event. Cheers all!

Edit.. how do i post pics? it's asking for a URL and didn't work


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## Jason Green (Aug 20, 2017)

kbrune said:


> Hey all! Ive been lurking instead of posting the last 2 weeks. The following pics will explain. I sort of hit a wall after being angry. so stupid. Anyway since then i've just been popping on a readign posts a bit. Jealous of my inability to practice anthing anymore. In the last few days though my broken has felt better and i decided to resume 4bld practice. Well.. i managed a first success of 26:32.11 (2 cheats - check after centers and check after wings since it was a first attempt)
> 
> It was a fairly easy scramble as far as i could tell. no cycle breaks in center memo and 1 cycle break in wings which made it easier. Not sure ill be replying much. typing is a huge pain in the ass. but pretty glad im able to practice something while i heal up. Turning is cumbersome and slow but that's normal with 2 healthy hand while learning any new event. Cheers all!
> 
> Edit.. how do i post pics? it's asking for a URL and didn't work


I just upload a file on my phone to share pics on here. Congrats on the 4 blind! I hit a wall once and broke the wall but not my hand, but it wasn't from anger it was pain. I had a chocolate lab that jumped on the bed and scratched my back as she landed. It hurt so much I hit the wall. Haha


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## muchacho (Aug 20, 2017)

This is the fastest solve I've reconstructed (I was not able to do it with my 11.289 PB). Probably one of the fastest solves with first block on the right... well, probably not, but at least I don't know anyone who does FB on the right 

51258 20-ago-2017 14:21:39 00:11.519 R2 L2 D F2 U F2 L2 D B2 L2 D' B' R B2 D F' L D' L2


Spoiler



y' x
M' Uw R U' R' // FB
U' M' U' L2 L' U L U2 M' Lw' U' Lw U M Lw U Lw' // SB
U2 F R' F' R U R U' R' // CMLL
M' U' M' U U2 M2 U2 M

39 STM
3.39 TPS


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## kbrune (Aug 20, 2017)

Mike Hughey said:


> I'm really surprised how everyone does Yau now. I guess I should really learn it?



i switched to yau once. it added 20 seconds to my average. i got frustrated and switched back to my mutt method lol




Jason Green said:


> I just upload a file on my phone to share pics on here. Congrats on the 4 blind! I hit a wall once and broke the wall but not my hand, but it wasn't from anger it was pain. I had a chocolate lab that jumped on the bed and scratched my back as she landed. It hurt so much I hit the wall. Haha




i tried that. It still asks for a URL on my phone. im so tech imcopetent its painful!


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## h2f (Aug 20, 2017)

I gave Yau5 a try today and I got 2:30 out of nowhere. My normal averages are over 3:10. It was just good slow solve without pauses. I'm gonna to switch to Yau5.


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## Jason Green (Aug 20, 2017)

I was hoping for a sub 5:00 blind solve soon and then I got this! Easy memo with no parity, pretty lucky. 

Edit: I'm using the feet timer on my app because I can't get the blind to work and this keeps it separate from 3x3.  and that 4:57 was a DNF BTW.


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## earth2dan (Aug 21, 2017)

kbrune said:


> Hey all! Ive been lurking instead of posting the last 2 weeks. The following pics will explain. I sort of hit a wall after being angry. so stupid. Anyway since then i've just been popping on a readign posts a bit. Jealous of my inability to practice anthing anymore. In the last few days though my broken has felt better and i decided to resume 4bld practice. Well.. i managed a first success of 26:32.11 (2 cheats - check after centers and check after wings since it was a first attempt)
> 
> It was a fairly easy scramble as far as i could tell. no cycle breaks in center memo and 1 cycle break in wings which made it easier. Not sure ill be replying much. typing is a huge pain in the ass. but pretty glad im able to practice something while i heal up. Turning is cumbersome and slow but that's normal with 2 healthy hand while learning any new event. Cheers all!
> 
> Edit.. how do i post pics? it's asking for a URL and didn't work


I've never tried uploading a photo from my phone. I use my PC for most posts and just click the "Upload a File" button... et voila!

Hope your hand heals up fast. That's no fun at all. Especially when your favourite hobby requires healthy dexterous digits.

I wish I could take part in these blind solve discussions, but I'm nowhere near there yet. I started learning M2 last year and then just kind of gave up on it for other things. Memorizing and recalling things from memory like this has always been a big problem for me. I like the story/rooms method, but I just haven't put enough time into training my brain for this.



h2f said:


> I gave Yau5 a try today and I got 2:30 out of nowhere. My normal averages are over 3:10. It was just good slow solve without pauses. I'm gonna to switch to Yau5.


Nice! I tried Hoya5 last year and I enjoyed solving that way, but I just couldn't match my standard reduction times so I eventually gave up on it. Never tried Yau5. Maybe I'll give it a go


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## pipkiksass (Aug 21, 2017)

Just thought I'd share this - the effect of magnetising my WuQue:


XPre-MagnetsPost-MagnetsImprovementAs %Single01:00.74000:54.83400:05.90610%Ao501:07.51001:04.34400:03.1665%Ao1201:10.52001:08.37600:02.1443%Ao10001:18.16001:12.97400:05.1867%

Not surprisingly, the magnets have made me massively more consistent. I've probably only done around 120 solves, but I've smashed my Ao100. Could probably do with a few drops of lube, then I'm pretty sure I could drop a couple more seconds off it - not far off being sub 1:10. I've had a couple of 1:10ish solves with double parity, and two sub-1's (my only ever sub-1s). 

(Bad habit alert) I often look up at my timer on my phone (most solves these days are on my phone, rather than CStimer on my computer, and it can't hide timer updating) when executing OLL parity. More and more often I'm hitting parity in low 50's, rather than just outside the 1 minute mark. 

Just thought it was interesting, and proof (if it were ever needed) that magnets are worthwhile in a 4x4. I was amazed how easy magnetising my WuQue was - I was expecting it to be a lot harder. Maybe it's experience, but it actually took me less time than it took me to magnetise my Valk...


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## Lid (Aug 21, 2017)

Week is starting good here: 4x4 a5 *58.131* Pb by ~0.5s

57.720[p], 57.361[op], (1:01.968[p]), 59.313, (54.588) = 58.131


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## mafergut (Aug 22, 2017)

After having my stackmat timer (Yuxin) sitting on a drawer for a long time I decided to put it to use. I even managed to successfully connect it to my computer with csTimer. I had bought the cables (male 2.5mm to female 3.5mm and male-to-male 3.5mm) but when plugging them in my laptop nothing happened. The connector in my laptop is a 3-way 3.5mm jack (mic & headphones) and I had tried connecting the stackmat directly to that, which didn't work.

But for audio conferencing I use a headset with separate mic and 2-way headphone jacks which I connect to my laptop with a "splitter" cable (mic 3.5mm female + 2-way 3.5mm headphone female to 3.5mm 3-way male). So I thought, why not connect the stackmat to the laptop through the mic female connector of the splitter? And it worked!

While trying the stackmat I have managed to lower my skewb PBs again. Got sub-8 Ao50 (7.93) and 8.29 Ao100, all stackmatted. It doesn't seem like the stackmat has a significant impact in my skewb solves (maybe a tenth or two?). On the other side, it impacts a lot my 3x3 solves (I'd say more than half a second). Maybe I need to do a long stackmat session with 3x3 to get used to it, even if I still don't plan on going to a comp anytime soon.


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## earth2dan (Aug 22, 2017)

mafergut said:


> After having my stackmat timer (Yuxin) sitting on a drawer for a long time I decided to put it to use. I even managed to successfully connect it to my computer with csTimer. I had bought the cables (male 2.5mm to female 3.5mm and male-to-male 3.5mm) but when plugging them in my laptop nothing happened. The connector in my laptop is a 3-way 3.5mm jack (mic & headphones) and I had tried connecting the stackmat directly to that, which didn't work.
> 
> But for audio conferencing I use a headset with separate mic and 2-way headphone jacks which I connect to my laptop with a "splitter" cable (mic 3.5mm female + 2-way 3.5mm headphone female to 3.5mm 3-way male). So I thought, why not connect the stackmat to the laptop through the mic female connector of the splitter? And it worked!
> 
> While trying the stackmat I have managed to lower my skewb PBs again. Got sub-8 Ao50 (7.93) and 8.29 Ao100, all stackmatted. It doesn't seem like the stackmat has a significant impact in my skewb solves (maybe a tenth or two?). On the other side, it impacts a lot my 3x3 solves (I'd say more than half a second). Maybe I need to do a long stackmat session with 3x3 to get used to it, even if I still don't plan on going to a comp anytime soon.


Ingenious solution  

When I first got into speedcubing I bought a cheap knock off timer because my only options were an expensive StackMat timer or the cheapo. Lets just say I got what I paid for and it never really worked. I've been considering buying a good one because if I ever do get to a competition I'd like to be prepared.

Lol. So I just dusted off the ol' skewb (really, it was covered in dust) and timed a solve. 9 minutes! I don't think I'll be breaking records any time soon


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## mafergut (Aug 22, 2017)

earth2dan said:


> Ingenious solution
> 
> When I first got into speedcubing I bought a cheap knock off timer because my only options were an expensive StackMat timer or the cheapo. Lets just say I got what I paid for and it never really worked. I've been considering buying a good one because if I ever do get to a competition I'd like to be prepared.
> 
> Lol. So I just dusted off the ol' skewb (really, it was covered in dust) and timed a solve. 9 minutes! I don't think I'll be breaking records any time soon


If you decide to get a stackmat and you can affort it I'd go for the new Speedstacks Gen 4 timer. The only reason I went for the cheaper Yuxin is that the Spanish Speedstacks store is very expensive and other options (like ordering from TheCubicle), with shipping costs and all weren't much cheaper either (well over 50 bucks). I was lucky that the Yuxin timer works fine apparently (for now) and it was quite cheap on Lightake (like $20 or less). You have it on sale at Lightake right now for $12.69 timer + mat!!! Dirt cheap if you wanna take the risk


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## NewbieCuber (Aug 22, 2017)

Just wanted to say "I'm still here"  Slowly, my F2L is getting better and faster. I'm sneaking up on a 1 minute average for the 3x3. I'll get the occasional sub-60 second solve and I really feel like I'm close to getting a sub 60 second average of 5 soon.

Considering that 3 months ago I was happy to solve a 3x3 in under 3 minutes this is certainly progress.


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## Jason Green (Aug 23, 2017)

I had a crazy blind solve tonight. I didn't practice yesterday any so I was rusty I guess. I memoed two edges wrong letter, but caught them both at execution because I remembered where they were. H memo as G and B memo as C. Then I memoed CT J as my last three corners. It should've been BT J. I executed CT and realized my cycle was wrong. So I undid C and then remembered I had also done T. So I redid C, undid T, undid C again! Then did BT J. And had a success. I was kind of shocked. Haha.


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## Tabe (Aug 23, 2017)

To follow up on what @NewbieCuber said, "I'm still here, too" 

I've been practicing in advance of the Spokane Valley Summer 2017 competition on 8/26. I also got a magnetic Valk 3 a couple weeks ago. Several weeks ago, prior to the Valk's arrival, I dropped my PB in 10 seconds in one solve, going from a 50.65 to a 40.04. I got the Valk 3 after that and I saw an immediate improvement in my times and consistency. Since going sub-50 that first time, I've gone sub-50 dozens of times since, including a 46 ao5. Then this weekend, I knocked another 10 seconds off my PB, going from the 40.04 to 29.63 - completely skipping all the 30s! I was *REALLY* pumped* about that  I'm still averaging around 51 or so but I am getting faster.

Currently, I am still using the beginner method I learned many, many, many years ago from James Nourse's book but I have also been practicing some CFOP. I don't know OLL or PLL at all yet but can do F2L. I'm just not fast with it yet and, rather than trying to learn a new method before the competition, I've been mainly practicing my old method. After the competition, I'll switch to CFOP.

He may not read this thread but I'll also throw a shout-out to MLewis38 here. We'd done a couple trades and I loved one of the magnetic cubes I got from him (a Hualong) because it had strong magnets in it. We talked about him doing another cube for me and he ended up magnetizing a Valk 3 for me. I asked for REALLY strong magnets and that's what I got. And I *LOVE* it. He was worried I'd hate it but it's great. Makes it super, super-stable. Anyway, he took care of me big-time and I now have a cube I really like. I highly recommend him if you're the type (like me) that doesn't want to magnetize your own cubes.

* - A billion years ago, I used to solve people's cubes for them at recess and would charge them a quarter for the privilege  I got a fluke scramble that was ... not really scrambled... and solved the cube in 30 seconds. My goal since taking up the cube again earlier this year has been to beat that fluke solve with a "real" solve and now I finally have.


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## mark49152 (Aug 23, 2017)

Jason Green said:


> And had a success. I was kind of shocked. Haha.


Yeah those are just as satisfying as regular successes, in a perverse kind of way. Like wow, I'm so pleased with the great job I did recovering from those dreadful screw-ups I made .


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## newtonbase (Aug 23, 2017)

Wall done on the progress @NewbieCuber and @Tabe 

@Jason Green If you can spot errors and fix them successfully then you clearly have a very good understanding of what you are doing. I don't think that it will be long before you will be in a position to start pushing memo and cutting chunks out if your times.


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## JohnnyReggae (Aug 23, 2017)

mafergut said:


> If you decide to get a stackmat and you can affort it I'd go for the new Speedstacks Gen 4 timer. The only reason I went for the cheaper Yuxin is that the Spanish Speedstacks store is very expensive and other options (like ordering from TheCubicle), with shipping costs and all weren't much cheaper either (well over 50 bucks). I was lucky that the Yuxin timer works fine apparently (for now) and it was quite cheap on Lightake (like $20 or less). You have it on sale at Lightake right now for $12.69 timer + mat!!! Dirt cheap if you wanna take the risk


Speaking of timers ... this link was posted on the Forums here a few weeks back, can't find the original post but I did save the link with the info. Make your own Stackmat display ... https://jayanth-rajakumar.github.io/ledmat/

It seems easy enough. I've ordered all the parts required, waiting for them to arrive now. Just to give an idea of costs ... here in South Africa I can get a Stackmat display for R2700 (around $200). The parts I ordered off of eBay cost me R250 (around $18). The only parts I still require are a LIon battery and a case to house the components.

Quite excited to try get this working


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## mafergut (Aug 23, 2017)

JohnnyReggae said:


> Speaking of timers ... this link was posted on the Forums here a few weeks back, can't find the original post but I did save the link with the info. Make your own Stackmat display ... https://jayanth-rajakumar.github.io/ledmat/
> 
> It seems easy enough. I've ordered all the parts required, waiting for them to arrive now. Just to give an idea of costs ... here in South Africa I can get a Stackmat display for R2700 (around $200). The parts I ordered off of eBay cost me R250 (around $18). The only parts I still require are a LIon battery and a case to house the components.
> 
> Quite excited to try get this working


Wow! That looks like a very interesting project. I wish I had time and ability to do things like that (and like modding cubes, etc.) 

EDIT: Finished my second skewb Ao1000 since learning intermediate. Improved more than 1 second, from 9.94 to 8.77. At this pace in 6000 solves I can break the WR


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## earth2dan (Aug 23, 2017)

JohnnyReggae said:


> Speaking of timers ... this link was posted on the Forums here a few weeks back, can't find the original post but I did save the link with the info. Make your own Stackmat display ... https://jayanth-rajakumar.github.io/ledmat/
> 
> It seems easy enough. I've ordered all the parts required, waiting for them to arrive now. Just to give an idea of costs ... here in South Africa I can get a Stackmat display for R2700 (around $200). The parts I ordered off of eBay cost me R250 (around $18). The only parts I still require are a LIon battery and a case to house the components.
> 
> Quite excited to try get this working


What a cool project. Be sure to follow up when you get it working. I'd love to see it in action.



mafergut said:


> You have it on sale at Lightake right now for $12.69 timer + mat!!! Dirt cheap if you wanna take the risk


Ooh that is quite a deal, but after shipping, currency exchange, and customs fees it'll be more like $30 for me. And with Lightake I may not see it for 3+ months (they have a pretty bad track record shipping my orders). I'm probably better off just spending the extra cash on something I know I'll be happy with. For $50 I can get the SpeedStacks G4 timer with mat and carry bag from a Canadian shop, and it would arrive within days of ordering. I've got it sitting in my cart along with a WuQue 4x4, a GTS V2, some lube and some magnets... just building up the courage to pull the trigger


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## mafergut (Aug 23, 2017)

earth2dan said:


> What a cool project. Be sure to follow up when you get it working. I'd love to see it in action.
> 
> 
> Ooh that is quite a deal, but after shipping, currency exchange, and customs fees it'll be more like $30 for me. And with Lightake I may not see it for 3+ months (they have a pretty bad track record shipping my orders). I'm probably better off just spending the extra cash on something I know I'll be happy with. For $50 I can get the SpeedStacks G4 timer with mat and carry bag from a Canadian shop, and it would arrive within days of ordering. I've got it sitting in my cart along with a WuQue 4x4, a GTS V2, some lube and some magnets... just building up the courage to pull the trigger


You know you are going to do it so, c'mon, don't make it last longer than it has to. Pull the trigger already! 
I have a cart right now in zcube with a Bauhinia, a Bermudaminx and the SS 4-layer Pyraminx but it's $60 including shipping and I have bought too many cubes recently and the Bauhinia will need a lot of time to sticker, disassemble, adjust and lube to make it turn decent as all mf8 puzzles. So, I have postponed the decision for now.


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## kbrune (Aug 23, 2017)

earth2dan said:


> I've never tried uploading a photo from my phone. I use my PC for most posts and just click the "Upload a File" button... et voila!
> 
> Hope your hand heals up fast. That's no fun at all. Especially when your favourite hobby requires healthy dexterous digits.



Thanks. It's been very frustrating not being able to practice much. In a way though it's forced me to practice parts of BLD taht ive always been too lazy to focus on. Bright side i suppose.

As far as uploading pics. i dont even have the option "upload file" anywhere. The options i have are: Image, media, and media gallery embed. None of them allow me to upload a pic.

Edit.. aaaaaand i just figured out a way 2 seconds after this lol
i reduced window size and dragged and dropped the pics from desktop.


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## kbrune (Aug 23, 2017)

The pics i tried to add a few days ago.


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## earth2dan (Aug 24, 2017)

mafergut said:


> You know you are going to do it so, c'mon, don't make it last longer than it has to. Pull the trigger already!


Lol. The trigger has been pulled  Now I wait...



kbrune said:


> The pics i tried to add a few days ago.


Holy crap dude! That's brutal. Do you OH with your left hand? I hope so cuz that right mitt is out of cubing commission for a while buddy  Hope it heals up well and quickly.


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## kbrune (Aug 24, 2017)

earth2dan said:


> Holy crap dude! That's brutal. Do you OH with your left hand? I hope so cuz that right mitt is out of cubing commission for a while buddy  Hope it heals up well and quickly.



i do OH with left. But my left hand dexterity is so bad. I don't enjoy OH and have never really put effort into it. Even now with a broken hand unable to solve normally. Im not motivated to OH. I've done maybe a dozen OH solves since losing right hand ability lol

Im enjoying the learning im doing for 4BLD and 5BLD so at least i have that. Otherwise id go crazy not being able to practice.


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## newtonbase (Aug 24, 2017)

kbrune said:


> The pics i tried to add a few days ago.



Ouch. That looks nasty.

Blind practice is good though. I've been using this from Roman's site for a couple of days to practice my image pairs. You can set it to any length Bestsiteever.RU/memotest/


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## h2f (Aug 24, 2017)

@kbrune, looks scary. Best wishes in your recovery.


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## mafergut (Aug 24, 2017)

That pic gives me shivers! I hope you recover completely and as fast as possible.


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## mark49152 (Aug 24, 2017)

Right, I have finished my 5BLD practice for ABHC this weekend! Having a break now until the comp. I finally made it to 50 attempts since I started 5BLD practice after Worlds. Out of those, 18 were successes, so 36% success rate overall, but worryingly, half of those successes were in the first 12 attempts after which my accuracy plunged, and it's currently only about 25%. The average time of the successes overall was 13:15, but again there's a worrying trend: the average time of the first 9 successes was 13:35, of the next 4 was 12:25, and of the most recent 5 was 13:18. 

So I started with great accuracy, got faster but with worse accuracy, then got slower again without recovering accuracy! Ah well, maybe I should focus on clock .

And, my 3BLD times have worsened by 5-10 seconds because of my focus on 5BLD too.

Hoping for some luck on Saturday


----------



## newtonbase (Aug 24, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> Right, I have finished my 5BLD practice for ABHC this weekend! Having a break now until the comp. I finally made it to 50 attempts since I started 5BLD practice after Worlds. Out of those, 18 were successes, so 36% success rate overall, but worryingly, half of those successes were in the first 12 attempts after which my accuracy plunged, and it's currently only about 25%. The average time of the successes overall was 13:15, but again there's a worrying trend: the average time of the first 9 successes was 13:35, of the next 4 was 12:25, and of the most recent 5 was 13:18.
> 
> So I started with great accuracy, got faster but with worse accuracy, then got slower again without recovering accuracy! Ah well, maybe I should focus on clock .
> 
> ...


With a 2 day break and time for 3 attempts you'll be fine. Good luck.


----------



## SenorJuan (Aug 24, 2017)

Thanks for posting that Stackmat display link, Johnny. Electronics is my field, it's interesting to see different approaches to the design problem.

Ken....Ouch! Those little empty image boxes in your original post gave no warning of what was to come later.
Hopefully you're not starting a 'show us yer gory pics' trend. Got any X-ray pics? HeHe.
Seems like the ideal time to break out the "Get Well Sune" gag again.


----------



## Mike Hughey (Aug 24, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> Hoping for some luck on Saturday



Seems I always have to go through some dry spells like this before making improvements. As long as you're learning from those solves, you're getting better - just remember that.


----------



## mark49152 (Aug 24, 2017)

Thanks Mike, yeah that's the way it goes. Doing some serious 5BLD practice has been fun though.


----------



## oneshot (Aug 25, 2017)

treated myself to some new cubes today! even bought my 7 year old daughter her own 3x3 with pink instead of red. she has a pb of 10 seconds on the 2x2, and is learning the last step of a 3x3 now.


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## Shaky Hands (Aug 25, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> Hoping for some luck on Saturday



Sounds like you've had a lot more time to practice than I have. With 2 weeks away in the Scottish mountains and returning to a house move I've had virtually no practice time; but I'm looking forward to seeing what I can achieve at this weekend's comp regardless. Maybe a lack of practice will become my new success strategy!

Look forward to seeing you, @Logiqx and @bubbagrub tomorrow; safe travels one and all.


----------



## bubbagrub (Aug 25, 2017)

Shaky Hands said:


> Sounds like you've had a lot more time to practice than I have. With 2 weeks away in the Scottish mountains and returning to a house move I've had virtually no practice time; but I'm looking forward to seeing what I can achieve at this weekend's comp regardless. Maybe a lack of practice will become my new success strategy!
> 
> Look forward to seeing you, @Logiqx and @bubbagrub tomorrow; safe travels one and all.



Same here. Well, apart from the Scottish mountains and moving house... I've done quite a bit of 4x4 practice recently, but not much else. I seem to have more or less given up on BLD, sadly. 

Anyway, yes, looking forward to seeing you guys tomorrow.


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## earth2dan (Aug 25, 2017)

oneshot said:


> treated myself to some new cubes today! even bought my 7 year old daughter her own 3x3 with pink instead of red. she has a pb of 10 seconds on the 2x2, and is learning the last step of a 3x3 now.


That's great! I have two daughters (8 and 10) that couldn't be less interested in cubing. I don't know where I went wrong


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## pipkiksass (Aug 26, 2017)

@kbrune... OUCH. Just... ouch!

I've been thinking about a new project, making a magnetic Gans 356 (because NOBODY) has done that, eh? Anyway, ordered from SpeedCubeShop last night, my first order from them, because I spotted the Air Master was on sale there and JPerm (sorry, can't remember his forum name) posted a further discount code in his latest YT offering.

Anyway, bit the bullet and ordered some more magnets off eBay... my project will henceforth be known as the Gans 356 Air Tasty (Mm). Because the Ultimate pieces are glued, so you can't make a DIY UM.

Also ordered some SCS lube, Martian, to compare to DNM37. Will be sure to share my experiences here!

Good luck to all those cubing today.

@kbrune, did I mention OUCH???!!!


----------



## mark49152 (Aug 26, 2017)

And... drum roll... three DNFs


----------



## Jason Green (Aug 26, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> And... drum roll... three DNFs


Well today realistically looks to possibly be the most disappointing comp yet results wise. It's all afternoon events I'm about to drive there. 3x3 I'll need quite some luck to get a PB, especially since I've been practicing more blind I'm rusty. 4x4 soft cut is 1:10, which I would say is 20% or less of my solves. Blind is fun, but I don't know what to expect. I think the effect of nerves is going to be different trying to memo versus doing a normal solve. And then OH is probably my best bet for a PB, but again I haven't practiced a whole lot. 

That being said I'm just looking forward to all the other great attributes of a comp!


----------



## newtonbase (Aug 26, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> And... drum roll... three DNFs



Unlucky. Silver was there for the taking. The results took forever to show up on Cubecomps. 



Jason Green said:


> Well today realistically looks to possibly be the most disappointing comp yet results wise. It's all afternoon events I'm about to drive there. 3x3 I'll need quite some luck to get a PB, especially since I've been practicing more blind I'm rusty. 4x4 soft cut is 1:10, which I would say is 20% or less of my solves. Blind is fun, but I don't know what to expect. I think the effect of nerves is going to be different trying to memo versus doing a normal solve. And then OH is probably my best bet for a PB, but again I haven't practiced a whole lot.
> 
> That being said I'm just looking forward to all the other great attributes of a comp!


Good luck. First blind attempts at comp are good experience whatever the result.


----------



## Jason Green (Aug 27, 2017)

Wow I had almost as much luck as I could today! 4 PBs including 3x3 single 13.41, OH average 37.59 and single of 27.46, and two blind successes with a 6:36 and 6:56. I had like 1:30 left for my third blind attempt, so I just solved corners.  Only thing I lacked luck in was the 4x4 soft cut, but I'm not complaining it was a way better comp than I expected!

http://m.cubecomps.com/competitions/2431/competitors/1

Edit: BTW the second blind solve I memoed corners wrong and knew it as soon as I started to execute. I took my best guess but really didn't think I had it right but did.


----------



## newtonbase (Aug 27, 2017)

Jason Green said:


> Wow I had almost as much luck as I could today! 4 PBs including 3x3 single 13.41, OH average 37.59 and single of 27.46, and two blind successes with a 6:36 and 6:56. I had like 1:30 left for my third blind attempt, so I just solved corners.  Only thing I lacked luck in was the 4x4 soft cut, but I'm not complaining it was a way better comp than I expected!
> 
> http://m.cubecomps.com/competitions/2431/competitors/1
> 
> Edit: BTW the second blind solve I memoed corners wrong and knew it as soon as I started to execute. I took my best guess but really didn't think I had it right but did.


Wow. 2 successes at your first attempt is very impressive. Well done.


----------



## Jason Green (Aug 27, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> Wow. 2 successes at your first attempt is very impressive. Well done.


Thank you, if you question the fact I had luck on my side, my 13.41 was a sune OLL, PLL skip.  Maybe I had Anthony Brooks' luck, he said it just wasn't his day. Of course he still made finals. Everything is relative.


----------



## mark49152 (Aug 27, 2017)

Nice job @Jason Green, congratulations!


----------



## mark49152 (Aug 27, 2017)

Some highlights (?) from yesterday :-


----------



## newtonbase (Aug 27, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> Some highlights (?) from yesterday :-


Watched that earlier. Frustratingly close on those 5BLD. What were the times like?


----------



## mark49152 (Aug 27, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> Watched that earlier. Frustratingly close on those 5BLD. What were the times like?


Yeah they were out by 2, 3 and 4 wings. Simple errors/oversights. All were in the 12:30-50 range. On the bright side, I successfully got 3 attempts within the cumulative limit for the first time without rushing, and generally my memo and execution was all pretty good, just let down by small errors. The practice definitely made a big difference.


----------



## oneshot (Aug 27, 2017)

So I'm really getting into more and more of the events. Originally I was just going to do bld events but I have been buying more and more puzzles. So I'd like to start a personal diary of sorts here. Just today I can solve the 4x4 without cheat sheets. It took 5:05. I don't really want to call that a "best" yet. But I'm sure I'll progress quickly. I started learning 4bld centers too.


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## newtonbase (Aug 27, 2017)

oneshot said:


> I started learning 4bld centers too.


What method? I'm learning 4BLD too and tried to go straight into centre comms but I make too many mistakes so it's a bit of a mix at the moment but mostly U2.


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## mark49152 (Aug 27, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> What method? I'm learning 4BLD too and tried to go straight into centre comms but I make too many mistakes so it's a bit of a mix at the moment but mostly U2.


Yeah U2 is a good stepping stone to comms, just like M2 and r2. You can do "advanced U2" in exactly the same way.


----------



## oneshot (Aug 27, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> What method? I'm learning 4BLD too and tried to go straight into centre comms but I make too many mistakes so it's a bit of a mix at the moment but mostly U2.


oh, I'm not in a rush to learn comms. I plan on staying involved with cubing forever, so I'm starting slow. I'm using Noah's 4bld tutorial video to learn. I used his 3bld videos and I like the way he teaches


----------



## newtonbase (Aug 27, 2017)

oneshot said:


> oh, I'm not in a rush to learn comms. I plan on staying involved with cubing forever, so I'm starting slow. I'm using Noah's 4bld tutorial video to learn. I used his 3bld videos and I like the way he teaches


Noah is good but make sure you look at Corey Sakowski too.


----------



## Jason Green (Aug 28, 2017)

Some highlights from yesterday. Guess I should put together my video from Nationals a month ago! Haha


----------



## Shaky Hands (Aug 28, 2017)

Cool videos @mark49152 & @Jason Green. Thanks for sharing.


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## earth2dan (Aug 28, 2017)

Jason Green said:


> Wow I had almost as much luck as I could today! 4 PBs including 3x3 single 13.41, OH average 37.59 and single of 27.46, and two blind successes with a 6:36 and 6:56.


Great comp results @Jason Green! An official 13.x looks pretty damn good on the ol' cubing resume  That must have felt awesome.


----------



## mark49152 (Aug 28, 2017)

Nice to catch up with @Shaky Hands and @bubbagrub at the weekend, and others. Not much to report from this comp otherwise. My results were pretty consistently mediocre or poor, although I did get a first clock average, and had fun regardless.

Pity @Logiqx couldn't make it in the end, we missed him.


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## Logiqx (Aug 28, 2017)

kbrune said:


> The pics i tried to add a few days ago.



Ouch, I wish you a speed recovery. Maybe it is time to give feet or OH a serious chance? 



mark49152 said:


> Pity @Logiqx couldn't make it in the end, we missed him.



Yeah... shame I couldn't make it to a local competition. My brownie point balance is still somewhat unhealthy and is yet to fully recover from the London + Paris weekends!

To keep the peace, I opted for a sunny weekend in Weymouth doing things that we both enjoy on the water; SUPing, kayaking, etc.


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## phreaker (Aug 28, 2017)

Magnetized my 1st 4x4, a Wuque. I really like the center slices, though they may be a hair stiff. The 3x3 stage is a bit vague and may need a touchup. (a bit more magnets.) But I'm tempted to just use it as is for a while and see how I like the feel before I make any adjustments.

Dropped my PB from 3:40 -> 3:18. Even at my level, cube matters.

In general my times have been dropping solidly recently. I've heard there's a time when you get under sub-60 where your times really start to drop, and I feel like I'm getting into it. I'm seeing more and more sub 50 times OH, and sub 45 2H.

I feel like I'm getting more consistent and my EOLine is getting better. Also my LL practice is starting to show a bit. (I'll often fidget with a cube OH, running off PLLs.)

Overall... Improvement! Now to read about how to mag up a 5x5, and maybe get a spare... (Though I'll admit I'd be more tempted by a 6x6... I'm not sure I have the patience to really do a 6x6 justice.)

Grats to all on your PBs recently... looks like people have been on a tear... and kbrune... I didn't come here expecting gore... whoa!


----------



## earth2dan (Aug 28, 2017)

My latest cube order just arrived. I'm too impatient to do unboxing videos 

The SpeedStacks Gen 4 Timer is really nice. I haven't tried the data port yet, but even if I can't get that working I'm glad I spent the extra few bucks on this timer. Now I can prepare myself for comp cubing... If I ever get to one.

I'm disappointed with my stickerless WuQue 4x4 out of the box, but I'll reserve judgement until I've set it up and broken it in a bit. As with most 4x4's I expect it'll take some love to see it's potential.

I love the GTS2 straight out of the box. This has serious main potential. I bought it with intent to magnetize it, but now I'm not sure I want to for fear that I might ruin it.

The surprise of this order however is the Cyclone Boys mini 4x4. Straight out of the box it's my favourite 4x4. It's like an already broken in G4, and it's the perfect size. I have big hands and I still think all 4x4's should be this size. The WuQue feels monstrous in my hands after solving the CB mini. The WuQue will have to feel magical after setting it up, otherwise the CB mini 4x4 is my new main, just like that.


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## openseas (Aug 28, 2017)

Hello,

I'm Jae, first time posting here. I peeked this site last year when I met Jason but just reading couple of pages discouraged me (sorry!) because you guys were too fast. Jason was pulling my arm again today, so, here I am.
I'm living in North Texas (close to where Jason lives) & have been cubing about year and a half averaging mid 20s. I started 3BLD about 3 months ago. Last Saturday, I've got 3:29 for 3BLD 3/7 for MBLD (not pb though). Home pb is just under 2 mins but mostly averaging mid 2min.

Oh, last thing, while I'm not practicing BLD, I make magnetic cubes (so far made about 20-ish) and love playing with numbers (WCA stats thingy as well).


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## Shaky Hands (Aug 28, 2017)

Welcome @openseas !


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## mafergut (Aug 28, 2017)

@earth2dan you mean the FeiTeng 57mm? Should I order one?  Regarding the WuQue I think you will end up loving it, I did and I was fond of my G4, as you will probably remember. Then I got a magnetic WuQue and now I'm in love with it 

Welcome @openseas.


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## Jason Green (Aug 28, 2017)

openseas said:


> Hello,
> 
> I'm Jae, first time posting here. I peeked this site last year when I met Jason but just reading couple of pages discouraged me (sorry!) because you guys were too fast. Jason was pulling my arm again today, so, here I am.
> I'm living in North Texas (close to where Jason lives) & have been cubing about year and a half averaging mid 20s. I started 3BLD about 3 months ago. Last Saturday, I've got 3:29 for 3BLD 3/7 for MBLD (not pb though). Home pb is just under 2 mins but mostly averaging mid 2min.
> ...


Glad you came over finally! It's really been a great place to help my cubing motivation the last couple years!


----------



## newtonbase (Aug 28, 2017)

openseas said:


> Hello,
> 
> I'm Jae, first time posting here. I peeked this site last year when I met Jason but just reading couple of pages discouraged me (sorry!) because you guys were too fast. Jason was pulling my arm again today, so, here I am.
> I'm living in North Texas (close to where Jason lives) & have been cubing about year and a half averaging mid 20s. I started 3BLD about 3 months ago. Last Saturday, I've got 3:29 for 3BLD 3/7 for MBLD (not pb though). Home pb is just under 2 mins but mostly averaging mid 2min.
> ...


Good to see you here Jae.


----------



## Jason Green (Aug 29, 2017)

earth2dan said:


> Great comp results @Jason Green! An official 13.x looks pretty damn good on the ol' cubing resume  That must have felt awesome.


It really did feel great and took me by surprise!


----------



## One Wheel (Aug 29, 2017)

Got my first new puzzles in a while today:

Yuxin megaminx: terrible out of the box, with some lube it's actually pretty nice. It almost seems like they went out of their way to design a megaminx that you can't put magnets in. It's kind of ridiculous in that respect. 

Qiyi Qiheng megaminx: turns really smoothly and easily at first, but every bit as catchy as my Dayan in a solve. I think this one should be relatively easy to magnetize using a center-edge scheme, very difficult with corner-edge. 

Both megaminxes have a tan side that's a little too close to white. I wonder if it would be possible to dye it black . . . The yuxin would also be very possible to sticker. 

Qiyi Wuji: pretty dry. Corners won't fit 4x2 magnets, but I think 4x1 will be fine. 4x2 will work for the rest of the pieces. This is the one I bought with no intention of keeping, I'm just intending to magnetize it and sell it. I'm happy with my Yufu M.

Qiyi warrior: this was a freebie. It might make a nice puzzle with some strong magnets in it. Should be a piece of cake to magnetize. I might try the 6x1 n48 that gaussboys have on sale. 

CB G6 (used): this one is going to be a ton easier to magnetize than my Aoshi, and I think it's going to be a legitimately good puzzle when I'm done. No problem fitting 4mm magnets here. 

SS Gigaminx: really disappointed with the sticker quality. One sticker already came off. Turns fine, feels like a solid puzzle. After pulling off one side to see if, just for kicks, it could be magnetized (edges piece of cake, corners probably not. Put it back together before I thought to see if you could do a sort of center-edge scheme, but I don't think it's worth it.) I think you could actually use this puzzle with all the screws removed, it's that stable. My first solve was 45:xx. 

I think I managed to lose my big sail M this last weekend at my brother's wedding, so I'm going to take a break from feet for a little while til I replace it. I might just have to place a cubicle order soon.


----------



## pglewis (Aug 29, 2017)

Just a couple weeks out from my next comp; I've been in a busy period with work plus I had eclipse trip planning interrupting things (I experienced about 2:30 of totality with clear skies around the sun, it was a more profoundly moving experience than I even anticipated). 

I haven't made a blind attempt in weeks but will start again this week including a lot of cafe practice for distractions. I just started getting into the swing of timed 3x3 solves again last night and tonight: a lot of 26s, quite possibly about a second faster than before the hiatus lol. I'm not logging solves in cstimer, just timing to get a feel for where I'm at, but Ao50 should definitely be below :30 next time I sit down and log that many, Ao12 is certainly beatable if I hit a good spell, and I'm ridiculously overdue for an outlier in the 16-17 range (I've still only had two :19s as my only sub 20 solves). I've landed some low 20s with 3LLL and sub par PLLs if everything else goes smoothly so I'm afraid to put the timer away for exercises... you just know that first one after shutting the timer off...

Anyway, my official average isn't even sub 40, so low pressure to just duck that at comp and anything else is gravy. It would be nice to see at least one mid 20 or better to feel like I /can/ actually employ some lookahead under comp conditions. A single blind success under 10 mins is 100% win for me.


----------



## JohnnyReggae (Aug 29, 2017)

earth2dan said:


> ...
> I'm disappointed with my stickerless WuQue 4x4 out of the box, but I'll reserve judgement until I've set it up and broken it in a bit. As with most 4x4's I expect it'll take some love to see it's potential.
> 
> I love the GTS2 straight out of the box. This has serious main potential. I bought it with intent to magnetize it, but now I'm not sure I want to for fear that I might ruin it.
> ...


I'd agree with your assessment of the stickerless WuQue out the box. I found it to be slow and sluggish with the inner layers catching quite a lot. Even with magnets in I still struggled with it. I've done a hundred or so solves on it and it is getting better the more I use it. I initially loosened the tensions but have since tightened them to cater for the breaking in. The one thing I don't like with the WuQue is the popping. Both the stickerless and black have popping issues, and if I tighten up the tensions to stop the popping I can't turn the cube nicely. So for now I'm sticking with the Yuxin Blue as my main and then a bunch of solves here and there on the WuQue to try break it in some more.

I've ordered the CB mini 4x4 and can't wait for it to arrive, probably another month or so at least


----------



## mafergut (Aug 29, 2017)

Practising a lot lately with stackmat since I managed to connect it to csTimer. If I ever go to a comp I will be better prepared now. Finished my 3rd skewb Ao1000 this vacation and dropped another half a second from 8.77 to 8.23. Also improved all PBs except for single. Ao100 now sub-8 (7.78) and nice Ao5 of 5.77 = 5.74, 5.65, (7.92), 5.90, (5.00).

I think that's bordering on the limits of my ability. I might be able to shave off some more tenths and get to global sub-8 seconds but that's about it. If I wanted to improve more I should learn some advanced / NS, which I won't so... maybe it's time for pyraminx improvement? 

By the way I just ordered a 4-layer pyraminx (Shengshou, not Lanlan) and a Redi cube, just because. The CB mini 4x4 FeiTeng was so cheap that I had to add one to the order as well. The Bauhinia will have to wait... maybe for Christmas?


----------



## earth2dan (Aug 29, 2017)

JohnnyReggae said:


> I'd agree with your assessment of the stickerless WuQue out the box. I found it to be slow and sluggish with the inner layers catching quite a lot. Even with magnets in I still struggled with it. I've done a hundred or so solves on it and it is getting better the more I use it. I initially loosened the tensions but have since tightened them to cater for the breaking in. The one thing I don't like with the WuQue is the popping. Both the stickerless and black have popping issues, and if I tighten up the tensions to stop the popping I can't turn the cube nicely. So for now I'm sticking with the Yuxin Blue as my main and then a bunch of solves here and there on the WuQue to try break it in some more.
> 
> I've ordered the CB mini 4x4 and can't wait for it to arrive, probably another month or so at least


I think we're pretty much on the same page with 4x4. The Yuxin Blue has been my main since it released, but it definitely took some work to set it up right. I did a dozen or so solves with the WuQue and CB mini last night and I'm enjoying the CB mini so much more. The WuQue catches so badly I'm sure I'll have to loosen it, I hope that goes away as it breaks in. That wait is torture isn't it? I stopped ordering from overseas because I found myself saying the same thing every time after month(s) of waiting "I wish I had paid a little more to get my puzzles sooner". Now I pay that little extra to order from a Canadian shop that delivers my orders within days, and it's great.



mafergut said:


> The CB mini 4x4 FeiTeng was so cheap that I had to add one to the order as well


 Nice! From the sounds of things, I doubt it will replace your WuQue M as your main. Though I know you liked your G4, so I'm sure you'll like the mini as they feel very similar. That 57mm profile is magic, at least for me. I really hope it catches on and we get more 57mm 4x4's from the other big brands.

I did a bunch of solves on my new stackmat timer last night. I'm really glad I got this thing because I have definitely been cheating with my phone timer. I need to start placing the cube on the table so I have to pick it up once I start the timer. And it has exposed a very bad habit of stopping my timer before completing AUF, which I need to correct :/


----------



## One Wheel (Aug 29, 2017)

My 2 cents on the CB mini 4x4: great out of the box, with some catchiness that feels like it will go away with break-in. I didn't do a lot of solves on it, maybe 50-100 I think, but the catchiness got worse, not better. I do like the size, although the more I use my 60mm yuxin blue the more I wonder if it would be worth trying a 62mm for the sake of PLL parity.


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## mafergut (Aug 29, 2017)

earth2dan said:


> I did a bunch of solves on my new stackmat timer last night. I'm really glad I got this thing because I have definitely been cheating with my phone timer. I need to start placing the cube on the table so I have to pick it up once I start the timer. And it has exposed a very bad habit of stopping my timer before completing AUF, which I need to correct :/



Yeah, same here. To the point of being maybe 0.5s slower or more with stackmat. So, I'm probably 1s slower than I thought I was at 3x3


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## JohnnyReggae (Aug 30, 2017)

earth2dan said:


> I think we're pretty much on the same page with 4x4. The Yuxin Blue has been my main since it released, but it definitely took some work to set it up right. I did a dozen or so solves with the WuQue and CB mini last night and I'm enjoying the CB mini so much more. The WuQue catches so badly I'm sure I'll have to loosen it, I hope that goes away as it breaks in. That wait is torture isn't it? I stopped ordering from overseas because I found myself saying the same thing every time after month(s) of waiting "I wish I had paid a little more to get my puzzles sooner". Now I pay that little extra to order from a Canadian shop that delivers my orders within days, and it's great./


There is a local store in South Africa based in Cape Town actually, however they don't update their stock often and they are reasonably expensive. I have used them a lot before, but these days I take the hit on waiting (sometimes begrudgingly) as it means I can get 2 cubes for the price of 1 locally. But I agree it is awesome to order a cube or two and have them arrive the next day. They have given me a 15% discount voucher as a birthday gift, so I may just take them up on that


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## mafergut (Aug 30, 2017)

I just finished my first solve of the Bermuda Venus. I bought that one because I wanted something easy but a bit challenging and the Mercury one seemed not much harder than a normal fisher cube. It was more difficult than I thought it would be and I was so desperate at some point that I checked a tutorial to see where I was going wrong. After passing that hurdle I managed to finish the solve on my own. Interesting solve indeed but now my head hurts 

The puzzle turns very well and I think it's worth the money. Considering buying another one of the more difficult ones, maybe Earth or Mars. The only downside is that as it shapeshifts I cannot put it in the box unless solved or at least returned to cubic shape. Well, that happens with other puzzles like mirror or Pyramorphix but those don't take me that long to solve that I'd need to leave it mid-solve for the next day


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## pipkiksass (Aug 30, 2017)

openseas said:


> Hello, I'm Jae... I make magnetic cubes (so far made about 20-ish) and love playing with numbers (WCA stats thingy as well).


Welcome Jae - I love making magnetic cubes and playing with numbers, too! You're in excellent company here. 20 is quite some achievement, I've only managed a Valk 3, WuQue, and about to try a GAN 356 Air MMmmmm tonight. Definitely gets easier with practice!



JohnnyReggae said:


> I'd agree with your assessment of the stickerless WuQue out the box. I found it to be slow and sluggish with the inner layers catching quite a lot. Even with magnets in I still struggled with it. I've done a hundred or so solves on it and it is getting better the more I use it. I initially loosened the tensions but have since tightened them to cater for the breaking in. The one thing I don't like with the WuQue is the popping. Both the stickerless and black have popping issues, and if I tighten up the tensions to stop the popping I can't turn the cube nicely. So for now I'm sticking with the Yuxin Blue as my main and then a bunch of solves here and there on the WuQue to try break it in some more.





earth2dan said:


> I think we're pretty much on the same page with 4x4. The Yuxin Blue has been my main since it released, but it definitely took some work to set it up right. I did a dozen or so solves with the WuQue and CB mini last night and I'm enjoying the CB mini so much more. The WuQue catches so badly I'm sure I'll have to loosen it, I hope that goes away as it breaks in.


Funny - I was pretty much an instant convert to the WuQue. Even after swapping out the springs, my Yuxin Blue was quite unstable. I find the WuQue more stable, and I actually have LESS pops with it than I did with my Yuxin. Could it be a batch thing? I heard there were dodgy batches of WuQues... 

I only ever have pops when executing OLL parity... badly!



earth2dan said:


> That wait is torture isn't it? I stopped ordering from overseas because I found myself saying the same thing every time after month(s) of waiting "I wish I had paid a little more to get my puzzles sooner". Now I pay that little extra to order from a Canadian shop that delivers my orders within days, and it's great.


OK, this links with my earlier comment about making my GAN 356 Air MM tonight. I normally order from either UK Puzzle Store, or TheCubicle for obscure stuff, lube, and stickers. I started paying more for UK Puzzle Store because it's 2 days delivery, sometimes I waited a few weeks for Cubicle stuff. 

Anyway, I'd been considering buying a GAN Air Master for a few weeks, just to play with magnets, and SpeedCubeShop had a sale on it, so I took the plunge on Friday night (25th August, about 11pm UK time). Well my cube arrived today. From California. That's 4 1/2 days. Including a weekend. If I'd placed the order with a UK store I'd probably have got it today too, because Monday was a public holiday in this county. Crazy! Thoroughly recommend SpeedCubeShop. Postage was quite expensive, but totally worth it. Used JPerm's discount code, and... yeah, crazy!

So off I go to magnetise my Gan, which will give me a DIY Valk M and GAN 356, and an off-the-shelf GTS2M. Hopefully I'll be in a position to make an educated choice between the top 3x3s. Fun.


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## pglewis (Aug 31, 2017)

Sat down and logged 50 solves in cstimer today busting everything but my single in the process, including a rather surprising sub :23 Ao5 early on during my peak lookahead. Ao50 is definitely under :30 despite falling off the cliff in the second half of the session. Definitely 1.5-2 seconds faster than before ~ 3 week hiatus, edging closer to being mid 20s instead of around 30. Color me excited!


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## JohnnyReggae (Aug 31, 2017)

pipkiksass said:


> Funny - I was pretty much an instant convert to the WuQue. Even after swapping out the springs, my Yuxin Blue was quite unstable. I find the WuQue more stable, and I actually have LESS pops with it than I did with my Yuxin. Could it be a batch thing? I heard there were dodgy batches of WuQues...
> 
> I only ever have pops when executing OLL parity... badly!
> ...
> So off I go to magnetise my Gan, which will give me a DIY Valk M and GAN 356, and an off-the-shelf GTS2M. Hopefully I'll be in a position to make an educated choice between the top 3x3s. Fun.


The WuQue is definitely more stable than the Blue, but it has a lot of little internal catches which slow me down quite a bit. 

For me pops usually only happen when doing OLL/PLL parities  The Blue has yet to pop on me. I've dislodged a small internal which didn't come out it just got stuck where it shouldn't be. Turning the layers slowly back pushed the internal straight back into place.

I find at the moment I swap between the big 3 cubes quite often these days. The last couple days has been with the Valk and GTS2 more. They are all fun to solve in their own way


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## mafergut (Aug 31, 2017)

Defective batches of the WuQue should be cleared by now, unless you bought it from a small store that moves small amounts of cubes and still had early stock for sale. The 1st WuQue I bought was seemingly from one of those early batches and it was slow and popped once in a while but still very stable and it became my main.

Then I ordered a new one and it was awful out of the box but a quarter turn of loosening and some weight 3 here and there made it much better and definitely better than my 1st one.

Then I bought the magnetic one from Juki Mods and it was just fantastic out of the box. In particular, the inner slices are much lighter to turn than in any of my 2 previous ones. I don't really know how they set up the cube to achieve that but it doesn't feel looser than the non-magnetic ones so maybe it's the lube they put in the internals that helps reduce overall friction in the ball core.

My main problem with the Blue was that in double layer flicks I had misalignment between the layers and that was awful when performing PLL parity. It happened only in some faces, though.

In any case, the WuQue is not a super-fast cube. For example, the Kungfu Cangfeng is much faster but it is compensated with great stability. Top speedcubers seem to be using the WuQue almost unanimously, with the exception of Kevin Hays, who is sponsored by Yuxin and uses a Blue... but with Thunderclap springs and probably other modifications too (magnets, etc.).


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## NewbieCuber (Aug 31, 2017)

SOOOOOO CLOSE!

On my journey to sub 1 minute 3x3 solves I've been hitting the occasional 0:54 and 0:52 (which was my personal best 2 months ago) but then things train wreck and I get a 1:22 or more. I did get a new PB of 51.46 though.

I'm still spending way too much time on the cross and F2L. I keep working on memorizing PLL cases and my last layer is getting faster and faster but I think I can pick up 20 seconds or more just by getting better at the cross and F2L.

The journey continues.


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## Shaky Hands (Aug 31, 2017)

@NewbieCuber - it's OK, improvement will come with time. Yes, F2L is the area where you will make the most improvement over time, but this is something you can practice repeatedly as part of the solving you do before reaching the last layer cases.

Good luck with your progression. You can definitely shave off 20 seconds or more off your average with improved F2L. My own F2L isn't pretty but it is fairly automatic by now - i.e.: I know how to solve each case, even if it's not necessarily fine-tuned to an optimal state.


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## pglewis (Aug 31, 2017)

NewbieCuber said:


> SOOOOOO CLOSE!
> 
> On my journey to sub 1 minute 3x3 solves I've been hitting the occasional 0:54 and 0:52 (which was my personal best 2 months ago) but then things train wreck and I get a 1:22 or more. I did get a new PB of 51.46 though.
> 
> ...



I'm excited for you, vicariously sharing your victories here. 

You aren't too far behind me, much the same story here just with different numbers. The lion's share of my gains are _still_ from improving F2L lookahead. I'm working to take my eyes off the pair I'm solving sooner so I can spot my next pair sooner, cutting down the pauses between. It's much easier to spot pieces when they're moving vs. static, so as unintuitive as it seems I do my best right now when I'm turning a little slower at the end of solving each pair... I can turn fast enough to out-turn my lookahead otherwise. It's the pauses that really kill.


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## openseas (Aug 31, 2017)

pglewis said:


> I'm excited for you, vicariously sharing your victories here.
> 
> You aren't too far behind me, much the same story here just with different numbers. The lion's share of my gains are _still_ from improving F2L lookahead. I'm working to take my eyes off the pair I'm solving sooner so I can spot my next pair sooner, cutting down the pauses between. It's much easier to spot pieces when they're moving vs. static, so as unintuitive as it seems I do my best right now when I'm turning a little slower at the end of solving each pair... I can turn fast enough to out-turn my lookahead otherwise. It's the pauses that really kill.



@NewbieCuber @Shaky Hands @pglewis
So happy to see many cubers with similar stage 
I think my progress was, Intuitive F2L cases --> sub 50s, All PLL --> sub 40, a little bit improved F2L --> sub 30. Now, I'm hitting sub 20 like +/- 10% but rarely practicing these days due to BLD or some other stuff (magnetizing..)


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## Mike Hughey (Aug 31, 2017)

For 3x3x3, many years ago I got where I was actually pretty good at lookahead. I resorted to learning full OLL just to get sub-30. And I improved lots of things, but still couldn't get sub-20.

Now it looks like I'm finally about to go sub-20. The key was that I finally realized how important it is that the way you insert your F2L pairs is critically important. You have to do them in a movement-efficient way. I never could be bothered with that, and I didn't fully realize until the past few weeks how much it was holding me back.


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## mafergut (Aug 31, 2017)

Mike Hughey said:


> For 3x3x3, many years ago I got where I was actually pretty good at lookahead. I resorted to learning full OLL just to get sub-30. And I improved lots of things, but still couldn't get sub-20.
> 
> Now it looks like I'm finally about to go sub-20. The key was that I finally realized how important it is that the way you insert your F2L pairs is critically important. You have to do them in a movement-efficient way. I never could be bothered with that, and I didn't fully realize until the past few weeks how much it was holding me back.


I'm starting to think that's one of the main reasons I find it so difficult to improve past the sub-19/ sub-18 barrier. When I find nice F2L cases I can easily get a 15 to 16 second solve, even with a normal, not specially lucky LL, but when F2L cases get nasty I am happy if I can sub-20 that solve at all. Remembering about corners stuck in back slots is part of it too.


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## pglewis (Aug 31, 2017)

Mike Hughey said:


> For 3x3x3, many years ago I got where I was actually pretty good at lookahead. I resorted to learning full OLL just to get sub-30. And I improved lots of things, but still couldn't get sub-20.
> 
> Now it looks like I'm finally about to go sub-20. The key was that I finally realized how important it is that the way you insert your F2L pairs is critically important. You have to do them in a movement-efficient way. I never could be bothered with that, and I didn't fully realize until the past few weeks how much it was holding me back.



@Selkie has recently put the magnifying glass to his solves in order to push forward too. I've yet to hit any stubborn plateaus but I know it'll be coming before long so I closely watch what you experienced folks do to break out. "Three more seconds improvement just from spamming solves" can't happen forever. 

I'm still only at about half of OLL, at least when the timer is running. At my current pace I'll probably be near or below :20 before I have them all. PLL was a lot easier for me to absorb due to the frequency I get to see them, I had those mostly down when I was around 1 min and still absorbing F2L. They're so automatic at this point I actually have trouble if I start to think about the execution _at all_. I literally had to AUF and AUF back in order to do a Gb today, I let my brain engage and couldn't get the muscle memory to kick-in without a small reset lol.

It wouldn't be surprising to find out I still have 3-5 seconds tied-up in lousy cross solving. At my times I probably shouldn't be planning 3 edges and figuring out the 4th on the fly as often as I do. It's just pure laziness, it's probably rare for me to go past 8-10 seconds of inspection while spamming solves so I'm not up against the time. I guess on the plus side there is still low hanging fruit if I start to bottom out on easy F2L gains. 



mafergut said:


> Remembering about corners stuck in back slots is part of it too.



Yes, so very much THIS. I've actually done some practice with sexy/sledgehammer in the back but I still have to know the corner is back there and how it's oriented first.


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## Lid (Aug 31, 2017)

PB? Thought my 3x3 a12 was better than in the signature but couldn't find it, so here is my new "PB" *15.363
*
14.048, 11.634, 13.657, 15.890, 16.834, 16.623, (19.597), (11.313), 17.909, 15.716, 16.768, 14.546
Both 11s was skips ;-) rest full steps including 2 Nperms.



Spoiler: scambles



Average of 12: 15.363
1. 14.048 U2 L2 B2 D' L2 B2 D' U L2 U' B R2 U' L' F' D' L2 D2 L R F'
2. 11.634 L2 U L2 F2 L2 D B2 D' B2 D2 U' L' D2 F' D U2 L2 B2 D' L F'
3. 13.657 D2 U2 L B2 L' R2 U2 B2 U2 B2 L' U' L2 D2 F2 L D L2 B R' F'
4. 15.890 U' R2 B2 F2 U B2 U2 R2 B2 F2 D2 F D2 R B L' U R' U B2 D'
5. 16.834 L2 U' L2 U' R2 F2 U R2 B2 F2 R' U2 R' B L' R' D2 U' F' D'
6. 16.623 R2 F2 U R2 B2 D' U2 B2 F2 R2 U2 L' F' L2 R' D' L2 U2 B' D' L2
7. (19.597) L2 U B2 D F2 D' L2 D U' L2 F R U F U B2 L U2 B' L2
8. (11.313) L2 U2 B' R2 U2 B' F2 L2 F2 D2 F L F2 U2 F L' D R2 D'
9. 17.909 L2 B2 L2 D' L2 D' F2 D U' F2 U2 F' R2 U R D2 L' D F2 R2 D
10. 15.716 U2 F L2 D2 U2 F' U2 L2 F2 L2 D' F2 L' B' R2 B R F2 L' U R2
11. 16.768 R D' L2 B2 U' B U2 R' B D2 L D2 F2 D2 R U2 L' D2 F2 R
12. 14.546 L2 D F2 U L2 D' R2 B2 L2 R' D2 B' U L R2 D R D F2



Now I hope that I get my new Magnetic 3x3 & 4x4 before the next competition.


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## Mike Hughey (Aug 31, 2017)

One thing I discovered a while ago, but that I hadn't realized pointed to what I'm seeing now, is that it's generally true that if I get a 25 second solve on a particular scramble, and then scramble it again and try it again, even knowing exactly how I solved it before, I'll STILL get a 25 second solve. And I could even repeat it 3 or 4 times and still get the same kind of result - maybe shaving off a second at the most. That should have clued me in that the WHOLE problem (with that particular solve at least, and therefore certainly with a lot of solves) was that I was being entirely too inefficient solving it. And my F2L insertion move counts are good. My whole problem was that the WAY I was executing them was terrible. Tons of cube rotations and tons of awkward moves to get them done.

One way I've been practicing to improve it is to just limit my cube rotations, even to the point of sometimes insisting on zero cube rotations while slow-solve practicing. It's forcing me to learn new ways to do F2L insertions that are much more finger-friendly.


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## pipkiksass (Aug 31, 2017)

Calling all magnetisers - if you fancy magnetising a GANs Air 356 make sure you "tension" the edges and corners correctly.

For anyone who's been cubing for 3+ years, remember tensioning an old Dayan cube, where you stretched the core out and counted the threads to check each centre was tensioned equally? Well the GAN anti-pop system is built in to the pieces, and each has to be screwed to the same tightness to allow the cube to turn evenly. I've had the cube apart 3 times since magnetising it, and although it's now even, I need to tighten it a little (after initially massively overtightening it).

Anyway, it's the most irritating of the cubes I've magnetised. There's definitely more of an art to it than, for example, a Valk or Weilong GTS2, where you can't really go wrong. With the GAN, magnet placement needs to be more precise, tensions need to be even between all 12 edges and 8 corners. Just a little fiddly - took me back to the days of Florian modding Guhongs and, as I say, counting the threads on screws to even it out. The GAN isn't made to be dismantled, it's made for you to use the plug 'n play spring system. It's not HARD, it's just fiddly. I could probably magnetise a WuQue AND a Valk in the time it took me to do the GAN.

Anyway, a verdict - I hated the cube out of the box. It flexed in ways that I hate, similar to the FangShi Shuang Ren, which I thought felt cheap and horrible, although loads of people loved it "back in the day". I swapped the stock nuts for the yellow ones as a test, and it was a BIT better, but still meh. It didn't really keep its shape very well, and caught a lot. 

A couple of hours later, it was magnetised but WAY too tight (I'd overtightened both corners and edges). I've since reassembled and disassembled it twice, and I'm about to give it a 3rd go to get it a little tighter. 

It's pretty good now, VERY smooth and buttery, but a little loose. I'm hoping that, with a little tweaking, it could be main-worthy. It's definitely an interesting alternative to the Valk and GTS2.

A worthwhile experiment, IMHO.


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## openseas (Sep 1, 2017)

pipkiksass said:


> Calling all magnetisers - if you fancy magnetising a GANs Air 356 make sure you "tension" the edges and corners correctly.
> 
> For anyone who's been cubing for 3+ years, remember tensioning an old Dayan cube, where you stretched the core out and counted the threads to check each centre was tensioned equally? Well the GAN anti-pop system is built in to the pieces, and each has to be screwed to the same tightness to allow the cube to turn evenly. I've had the cube apart 3 times since magnetising it, and although it's now even, I need to tighten it a little (after initially massively overtightening it).
> 
> ...



I did bunch except Gans. Main reason is that they don't have decent stickerless cube. I'm having trouble solving cubes other than stickerless - 7th color (either white or black background) bothers me so much. So, not much experience or comment to add... but..

When it comes to the core tension, I tried maglev for Valk3. Replaced springs with two donut-shaped magnets. The verdict from many top cubers were negative mostly because I couldn't find a decent option. (N42) However, if one can find reasonable strength & thickness combination, it does have benefits over springs - more tolerance in terms of space compared to springs (force ~ 1/distance^2 for magnets). 

Last month (US Nats) - I had a chance to discuss with Chris Tran regarding this maglev core - he also agrees to the benefits but didn't have enough time to explore optimum conditions yet.


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## newtonbase (Sep 1, 2017)

openseas said:


> Last month (US Nats) - I had a chance to discuss with Chris Tran regarding this maglev core - he also agrees to the benefits but didn't have enough time to explore optimum conditions yet.


I saw a video he did on maglev cubes and the difficulties in finding magnets that give the right tensions and that actually fit in the cube. It looks fiddly. I'd like to try doing one but need someone else to get it working first.


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## JohnnyReggae (Sep 1, 2017)

pipkiksass said:


> Calling all magnetisers - if you fancy magnetising a GANs Air 356 make sure you "tension" the edges and corners correctly.


I've done 3 GAN's so far, and one of them I've done twice changing the magnets. The last one I ended up taking apart about 5 times to try get the corners and edges correctly set. It is definitely a finicky cube to get right. Of the big 3 the GTSv2 is by far the easiest to magnetise.

I've also settled on the Yellow GES nuts, although if you go with stronger magnets I'd recommend using either Green or Blue.


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## pipkiksass (Sep 1, 2017)

Interesting thoughts @JohnnyReggae @openseas @newtonbase...

Personally, I'm not overly keen on the GAN, even having tweaked the corner tensions. I'm totally sold on stickerless these days, too. I struggled a little going back to stickered, and have to admit I'm not overly keen. 

That being said, that actual assembly of the pieces is much easier on stickered cubes - because there's only one plastic colour, the edges and corners are each only 2 pieces, so you don't have to worry about building one red/white/blue corner, one orange/yellow/green (in that order), etc., etc.

But that's a small price to pay for the fiddlyness, IMHO.

Maybe I need to tweak the cube even more to get it right, but I've used 4x2 N35s (same as my Valk), and I don't know if it's because the plastic is really thin, or just something I've not set 100% right on the threads of the edges/corners, but the cube just doesn't seem too great. Don't get me wrong, it's still a massive improvement on the cube out-of-the-box, but I've put lubicle 1 on it, done 30-odd solves, squirted a couple of drops of DNM37 in, and it's still really meh.

Re: maglev cores, I seem to remember one of the CubicleLabs videos, Chris talks about the added weight from the maglev core. I'd definitely be interested in trying to make one - I have a spare Valk. I wonder if this is more of a modding job, i.e. dremel may be required to get enough space for the right magnets?


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## JohnnyReggae (Sep 1, 2017)

pipkiksass said:


> Interesting thoughts @JohnnyReggae @openseas @newtonbase...
> 
> Personally, I'm not overly keen on the GAN, even having tweaked the corner tensions. I'm totally sold on stickerless these days, too. I struggled a little going back to stickered, and have to admit I'm not overly keen.
> 
> ...


I've had a love/hate relationship with the various GANs I've had from the 356sv2 to 3 Airs. Out the box they have all been meh ... Even with magnets they have been meh ... They only really seem to start shining when you've done a couple hundred solves. GAN definitely takes more patience to get the setup right.

Re: magnets. I found the 4x2mm N35's to be a little too strong on the GAN, good on the Valk, and weak on the GTSv2.

I'm also intrigued to try a Maglev conversion. I have a couple spare's that I could try it on ... hhmmmmm


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## openseas (Sep 1, 2017)

pipkiksass said:


> Interesting thoughts @JohnnyReggae @openseas @newtonbase...
> 
> Personally, I'm not overly keen on the GAN, even having tweaked the corner tensions. I'm totally sold on stickerless these days, too. I struggled a little going back to stickered, and have to admit I'm not overly keen.
> 
> ...



@pipkiksass 
Valk3 is the best when it comes to maglev. The reason is that there are enough space in the center core not like GTS V2. I also tried GTS V2 & Maying but I had to grind the center piece (inside) to fit those magnet discs.

BTW, I ran many experiments (still on-going) with magnets varying N35, N38, N42, N50, sizing also varies 3x1.5, 4x1, 4x1.5,4x2, 5x1.5, 6x1. I have many MF3Rs to spare since between my son and my self, we have 40-ish MF3Rs for multi blind . Anyway, so far, I made dozens of them with various conditions, N42 4x2 corner with N38 4x1 edge showed the best performance. Will post details a little bit later.


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## muchacho (Sep 1, 2017)

Sometimes I'm just faster, and I have no clue why 

Ao12 PB: 16.080 (old was 16.237 from April)



Spoiler



51956 01-sep-2017 15:22:39 00:16.143 F2 D2 L2 U R2 L2 D F2 L2 D' F' L D B D' B2 R L2 B2 U2
51955 01-sep-2017 15:22:04 00:15.501 R2 D2 B2 R2 D L2 U2 R2 B2 R2 U' R B' R U R F2 D L F' R U'
51954 01-sep-2017 15:21:25 00:15.719 U2 B2 F2 U R2 U2 F2 U R2 U' R' D' U' F' D2 B' D' B2 R
51953 01-sep-2017 15:20:36 00:29.245 D' F2 L2 U2 B2 D' B2 F2 R2 U' F2 R' F2 U' F2 D' B F' L2 U B' D'
51952 01-sep-2017 15:19:53 00:16.046 L2 D U R2 F2 L2 F2 D B2 L2 U2 R D' B2 R2 U F D' F D2 U
51951 01-sep-2017 15:19:16 00:14.983 U F2 U L2 D' F2 U2 L2 F2 R2 F2 R' B2 U F D2 B2 L B D' B U'
51950 01-sep-2017 15:07:41 00:14.343 R2 B2 D U2 B2 L2 B2 L2 U F2 D2 L' D' F D2 U' F' U2 R' D R
51949 01-sep-2017 15:06:56 00:16.023 B2 L2 D' R2 D2 L2 U F2 U' R2 B2 L B R F2 L F2 U' F' R2 F2 U2
51948 01-sep-2017 15:06:17 00:14.839 D2 F2 L2 U' B2 L2 U2 L2 F2 D2 U' B D R' B' R2 B' F' L' D2
51947 01-sep-2017 15:05:41 00:16.024 R2 L2 D' R2 F2 D B2 D' F2 D' L2 F D' U L D2 B U F D' R2
51946 01-sep-2017 15:05:03 00:14.607 B2 L2 F2 D' U' R2 D B2 D' B2 U' F' D' U B2 R D' U2 B R2 D2 R
51945 01-sep-2017 15:04:24 00:20.919 F2 R2 F2 R2 F2 U B2 L2 D2 L2 D2 B L' D2 F U2 R D L U' B' D2


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## mark49152 (Sep 2, 2017)

My first clock average from last weekend.


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## newtonbase (Sep 2, 2017)

I gave a friend of mine a cube a week ago. He's spent his family holiday teaching himself. He was aiming to get a guide free solve within a month but with a little goading he's now on a 2.35 PB and is asking how to practice his cross.


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## JohnnyReggae (Sep 4, 2017)

Got my first sub-20 OH single yesterday and new PB of 19.79 ... super stoked !!  Beat my previous PB by almost 2 seconds which had a PLL skip in it. This one was full-step which made it even more special for me.

F2 L U2 F2 L B2 L R F2 U2 R B D R2 U F2 D2 U' L B

z2 x' // inspection
R' U' F2 D2 // cross 4
x y' R' U R // f2l1 7
U2' z U' R' U z' R U' R' // f2l2 14
U' y R' U2' R U' R' U R //f2l3 22
U2' z U R' U' z' // f2l4 26
U2' R U2' R2 U' R2 U' R2 U2' R //oll 36
y R2 U R U R' U' R' U' R' U R' // pll U-Perm 47

// = 19.79 @ 2.37tps


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## Fyzzna (Sep 4, 2017)

After all this craze about magnetic cubes I finally gave in and decided to make one myself. Bought myself a cheap cube (MF3RS) to test the water and went to work. It was surprisingly easy and a little under two hours later I was finished and had the cube assembled again. 
The result: meh.
Honestly not very impressed with this. The outer layers feel pretty good but M slices are absolutely horrible on this cube (it's also very locky, almost more so than before magnetizing it). It might be because of the cheap cube but right now I definitely don't want to take the chance of ruining my valk by putting magnets in it.

On a happier note: With the MF3RS I also ordered a thunderclap (v1) and I absolutely love this thing! There is a serious possibility this could replace the valk as my main so there's that


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## Jason Green (Sep 4, 2017)

I finally edited my Nationals video. It's really just me talking to people, with a couple tiny snippets of cubing.


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## JohnnyReggae (Sep 4, 2017)

Fyzzna said:


> After all this craze about magnetic cubes I finally gave in and decided to make one myself. Bought myself a cheap cube (MF3RS) to test the water and went to work. It was surprisingly easy and a little under two hours later I was finished and had the cube assembled again.
> The result: meh.
> Honestly not very impressed with this. The outer layers feel pretty good but M slices are absolutely horrible on this cube (it's also very locky, almost more so than before magnetizing it). It might be because of the cheap cube but right now I definitely don't want to take the chance of ruining my valk by putting magnets in it.
> 
> On a happier note: With the MF3RS I also ordered a thunderclap (v1) and I absolutely love this thing! There is a serious possibility this could replace the valk as my main so there's that


Not sure how the cheaper cubes react to magnets as I haven't tried them yet. I've tried 3 different magnet strengths in some Valks and they can certainly take quite strong magnets and still feel great. Personally I find the magnetic versions much .... much better than the originals, even with the weakest or strongest magnets I've tried so far. If it were me ... I'd do it in a heartbeat  Then again I'm not a Roux solver so the M slices don't bother me much.


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## phreaker (Sep 4, 2017)

Fyzzna said:


> After all this craze about magnetic cubes I finally gave in and decided to make one myself. Bought myself a cheap cube (MF3RS) to test the water and went to work. It was surprisingly easy and a little under two hours later I was finished and had the cube assembled again.
> The result: meh.
> Honestly not very impressed with this. The outer layers feel pretty good but M slices are absolutely horrible on this cube (it's also very locky, almost more so than before magnetizing it). It might be because of the cheap cube but right now I definitely don't want to take the chance of ruining my valk by putting magnets in it.
> 
> On a happier note: With the MF3RS I also ordered a thunderclap (v1) and I absolutely love this thing! There is a serious possibility this could replace the valk as my main so there's that



Magnets change cubes, I find.

My Valk M (Custom Magnets): It kept its personality, roughly... if anything it became more exaggerated, more stable and a bit slower.

My Gans AIR UM: The cube finally feels... like a cube! Not like a mush that will do whatever I tell it to, and if I'm lucky not lock up. I like the M slices on this cube.

My GTS2M (Custom Magnets): This cube was AWFUL initially. I replaced the springs with Valk springs, and now it is my OH main, and is near full cutting for OH. (Yes, for OH! not 2H) The magnets feel right and it is just a pleasure to use. People who have tried this cube at comp, universally loved it... It is a great cube.

My Wuque: Feels interesting. I like it, but it is a bit more locky. I suspect setup will help as I get it more under control. But I love the 3x3 stage, and I love the way the turning feels... I can feel the potential, once I figure out how to cash it in.

My Wushuang: This one... I think I have the wrong magnets in. I feel the potential for it to be awesome... but I need weaker magnets in the outermost layer. The current ones I'm using are turning the middle layers when I go to do turns, that that's not optimal to say the least. But the cube itself is really nice. I've set my PB on it, and I suspect when I get the magnets right this cube will shine. (But that means redoing the corners with weaker magnets... which I can do, it'll just take time.

Overall, I feel magnets really can help cubes, but the setup of the cube often changes, and you want to setup the cube to be faster to compensate for the magnets... for me that's rough on the Wuque, and Wushuang, where I'd already set them up to be very quick.


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## pglewis (Sep 5, 2017)

pglewis said:


> ... I'm ridiculously overdue for an outlier in the 16-17 range (I've still only had two :19s as my only sub 20 solves) ...



Booya! For my third sub-20 single I skipped the 17s and 18s entirely. OLL skip + Ra, that one will probably stand for a little while.


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## openseas (Sep 5, 2017)

Fyzzna said:


> After all this craze about magnetic cubes I finally gave in and decided to make one myself. Bought myself a cheap cube (MF3RS) to test the water and went to work. It was surprisingly easy and a little under two hours later I was finished and had the cube assembled again.
> The result: meh.
> Honestly not very impressed with this. The outer layers feel pretty good but M slices are absolutely horrible on this cube (it's also very locky, almost more so than before magnetizing it). It might be because of the cheap cube but right now I definitely don't want to take the chance of ruining my valk by putting magnets in it.
> 
> On a happier note: With the MF3RS I also ordered a thunderclap (v1) and I absolutely love this thing! There is a serious possibility this could replace the valk as my main so there's that


What kind of magnet did you use? (N35? 4x2?)
3 things determine the outcome : magnet strength (N35 ~ N48), magnet disc size (4x2, 5x1, 4x1.5, 4x1, ...) and location of magnets : toward center (inner circle) or the surface (outer circle)


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## openseas (Sep 5, 2017)

phreaker said:


> Magnets change cubes, I find.
> 
> My Valk M (Custom Magnets): It kept its personality, roughly... if anything it became more exaggerated, more stable and a bit slower.
> 
> ...



Similar conclusion, magnets are more about stability.

Valk 3 M --> more about preventing overturn, Valk3 is already an excellent cube, adding magnets make it more reliable. It used to be my main.

GTS V2 M --> Initial GTS V2 is really not stable --> with magnets (proper size and location), much stable with speed of the original GTS V2 --> this is my main.

MF3RS --> it's a budget cube, my son and I use it for MBLD. So far, best combination I've found was N38 4x1 for edge, N35 4x2 for corner. It's not a main but quite decent.


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## newtonbase (Sep 5, 2017)

Fyzzna said:


> After all this craze about magnetic cubes I finally gave in and decided to make one myself. Bought myself a cheap cube (MF3RS) to test the water and went to work. It was surprisingly easy and a little under two hours later I was finished and had the cube assembled again.
> The result: meh.
> Honestly not very impressed with this. The outer layers feel pretty good but M slices are absolutely horrible on this cube (it's also very locky, almost more so than before magnetizing it). It might be because of the cheap cube but right now I definitely don't want to take the chance of ruining my valk by putting magnets in it.
> 
> On a happier note: With the MF3RS I also ordered a thunderclap (v1) and I absolutely love this thing! There is a serious possibility this could replace the valk as my main so there's that


First thing I do after magnetising a cube is to loosen it by at least a whole turn. Have you tried playing with the setup.
The Thunderclap V1 is a really nice cube. I magnetise mine with N35 4x3mm. I lost one of them on Sunday and was gutted. Hopefully whoever picked it up will become a cuber.


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## openseas (Sep 5, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> First thing I do after magnetising a cube is to loosen it by at least a whole turn. Have you tried playing with the setup.
> The Thunderclap V1 is a really nice cube. I magnetise mine with N35 4x3mm. I lost one of them on Sunday and was gutted. Hopefully whoever picked it up will become a cuber.



Wow, to me (and most of cubers I met), N35 4x3 was too strong. Even N35 4x2 was a little bit strong for corner turns - verdict by the most of cubers tried with my DoE. As I mentioned earlier, N38 4x1 edge + N35 4x2 corner received the best score.

I'm trying to find the right size - like 5x1 wit N?? - (depending on availability). I found it better with larger but thinner disc. I guess the magnet field is not strong (was gonna go for lower strength magnet) but it kicks in a little bit earlier (since wider).


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## Fyzzna (Sep 5, 2017)

JohnnyReggae said:


> Not sure how the cheaper cubes react to magnets as I haven't tried them yet. I've tried 3 different magnet strengths in some Valks and they can certainly take quite strong magnets and still feel great. Personally I find the magnetic versions much .... much better than the originals, even with the weakest or strongest magnets I've tried so far. If it were me ... I'd do it in a heartbeat  Then again I'm not a Roux solver so the M slices don't bother me much.


I know that a lot of fast Roux solvers are using magnetic cubes so M slices can't be horrible on all of them. At this point I'm quite certain that it's due to the cheap cube and the valk would probably be better with magnets but right now I don't want to ruin a $20 cube because of a hunch.



openseas said:


> What kind of magnet did you use? (N35? 4x2?)
> 3 things determine the outcome : magnet strength (N35 ~ N48), magnet disc size (4x2, 5x1, 4x1.5, 4x1, ...) and location of magnets : toward center (inner circle) or the surface (outer circle)


Yeah, I used 4x2 N35 magnets. As for placement I mostly followed this tutorial by DMCubing. I also checked for polarity at the end so it's unlikely that the problem lies in the setup here.



newtonbase said:


> First thing I do after magnetising a cube is to loosen it by at least a whole turn. Have you tried playing with the setup.
> The Thunderclap V1 is a really nice cube. I magnetise mine with N35 4x3mm. I lost one of them on Sunday and was gutted. Hopefully whoever picked it up will become a cuber.


I did loosen it by 5 quarter turns and I've played around with different tensions (and even lubes) a bit but nothing seems to help.
Shame about the thunderclap  At least it sound like you have more than one of them?


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## JohnnyReggae (Sep 5, 2017)

Fyzzna said:


> Yeah, I used 4x2 N35 magnets. As for placement I mostly followed this tutorial by DMCubing. I also checked for polarity at the end so it's unlikely that the problem lies in the setup here.


The 4x2 N35's are my favourite magnets for the Valk. I've gone weaker and stronger, but of the 3 I'll go back to the 4x2's definitely.


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## newtonbase (Sep 5, 2017)

openseas said:


> Wow, to me (and most of cubers I met), N35 4x3 was too strong.



I do prefer a stronger magnet. Especially for blind. 



Fyzzna said:


> Shame about the thunderclap  At least it sound like you have more than one of them?


I had 7 that I'd magnetised. This is the 2nd I've lost but I'm pretty sure the other is somewhere in my house. I also have a few virgin cubes and a load of magnets so I'll build up my stock in time for my next MBLD attempt.


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## Mike Hughey (Sep 6, 2017)

Is this normal? As I mentioned a little earlier, I've been practicing differently with 3x3x3 - trying to get more efficient with my F2L insertions. I now find that if I time a bunch of solves, and it's not that important to me, I can no longer average better than about 25 seconds. I guess that's because even when timing myself I'm always thinking, "but can I do that better?" Even if I don't actually do it better, I think that just thinking about it is slowing me down. And probably only about 1 in 20 of my single solves are sub-20.

And yet, for the last 4 averages of 5 that I've done in various of the online competitions (ours and some others), I've gotten sub-19 averages of 5. 4 in a row! (18.92, 18.84, 18.44, 18.81) I've gotten very few sub-19 averages of 5, like ever. It seems like when I feel like it really counts, I really have sped up a lot. But I can't see it when I'm practicing.

Is that normal?

I've been stuck at just over 20 seconds for so long now that I've forgotten what it's like to improve at 3x3x3. I've been stuck at just over 20 seconds for probably 5 years now.


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## mark49152 (Sep 6, 2017)

@Mike Hughey : I get my fastest sessions when I feel like I'm "in the zone". The solves feel like they flow automatically and I'm not really conscious of seeing, looking or thinking. Whenever I think about what I'm doing I'm slower, but I know that the technical improvements made during thinking solves do carry forward into "zone" solves.


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## openseas (Sep 6, 2017)

Mike Hughey said:


> I've been stuck at just over 20 seconds for so long now that I've forgotten what it's like to improve at 3x3x3. I've been stuck at just over 20 seconds for probably 5 years now.



I've been stuck about a year - that means four more years to go :-(

All jokes aside, I agree to your assessment. To me, it IS the efficiency of my F2L that slows me down the most. Haven't practiced much these days but once I settled down 3BLD, F2L efficiency will my next target.


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## chtiger (Sep 7, 2017)

I've been in part-time lurker mode lately, haven't been keeping up with the thread as much. Shame on me. A few random things--
Had another comp (man they have a lot of comps around here), not worthy of a write-up. No PB's. 3 more 3BLD DNF's, now 3/21 lifetime, geez.

If you like easy crosses, you can't beat this one
1. 15.57 U R2 F2 R D2 B2 L' B2 U2 R2 F2 B' U2 B' D2 L2 B' U2

Would you count the following as a home PB? Doing BLD with no blindfold and on laptop. Finished the solve, hit the spacebar (or so I thought), immediately realizing I forgot to flip an edge. Looked at the time, saw clock still running, didn't see the cube, closed my eyes and flipped the edge, properly stopped timer and cube was solved. Not a PB single, but would be part of a PB mean of 3.


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## phreaker (Sep 7, 2017)

Set my 5x5 PB at 5:31, and backed it up at 5:32.

The Wushuang M is quite a cube... I tried a few solves on a Moyu Boushuang GTS I have around... with a best of ~6:30 on those... so even at my speed... cube matters. (If only because I have better recognition on stickerless..)

May be time to go work on 3x3 CFOP soon... my CFOP stage is starting to show, as too slow... ZZ isn't real practical.

May also scramble a 5x5 as a 3x3 for practice turning etc... But I'm having fun... and in the end, that's what matters.


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## Jason Green (Sep 7, 2017)

Mike Hughey said:


> Is this normal? As I mentioned a little earlier, I've been practicing differently with 3x3x3 - trying to get more efficient with my F2L insertions. I now find that if I time a bunch of solves, and it's not that important to me, I can no longer average better than about 25 seconds. I guess that's because even when timing myself I'm always thinking, "but can I do that better?" Even if I don't actually do it better, I think that just thinking about it is slowing me down. And probably only about 1 in 20 of my single solves are sub-20.
> 
> And yet, for the last 4 averages of 5 that I've done in various of the online competitions (ours and some others), I've gotten sub-19 averages of 5. 4 in a row! (18.92, 18.84, 18.44, 18.81) I've gotten very few sub-19 averages of 5, like ever. It seems like when I feel like it really counts, I really have sped up a lot. But I can't see it when I'm practicing.
> 
> ...


I think it's normal. I'm not sure I ever had a focused time of trying to improve my insertions... other than picking them up over time. I do a lot of my insertions the way I see good cubers doing now, although some I need to work on.

This reminds me of learning a new alg set like OLL though. Of course it will have a negative impact on those new cases for a while. I've mentioned in the past, but typically what I end up doing when I'm learning something like that is use the timer mostly, but throw away solves that have the new cases. Rarely I'll do untimed solves but I just never enjoyed it much. That also gives you a gauge as to how you are improving on the new skill and when you should start incorporating it say at a comp. Of course I never count any averages I would get while throwing out solves.  I find it a good way to motivate me for learning new things, which I haven't done a lot of lately (until blind).



chtiger said:


> Would you count the following as a home PB? Doing BLD with no blindfold and on laptop. Finished the solve, hit the spacebar (or so I thought), immediately realizing I forgot to flip an edge. Looked at the time, saw clock still running, didn't see the cube, closed my eyes and flipped the edge, properly stopped timer and cube was solved. Not a PB single, but would be part of a PB mean of 3.


I probably would count it, if you're positive you didn't see the edge first.  I guess it would depend on whether I felt legit counting it. Like the fact that my PB is currently on my phone timer doesn't bother me at all, because the stackmat never seems to impact my times and I've had several PBs using it. So I guess I don't care what others think, it's legit to me.

It kind of relates to what I was talking about with practicing new things. If I'm trying to learn something new and counting all those practice solves would make my current overall average 1 or 2 seconds slower, I don't think to myself I'm 1 or 2 seconds slower. To me I'm still the speed I am without incorporating those things (that's why I discard them). I guess in the end, to me, official results are all that matter. And my approach has shown for me that how fast "I think I am" holds up pretty well officially. If my practice approach kept making me think I was 1 or 2 seconds faster than I was at comps, that would be very disappointing and I might have to be more strict on my "rules" for practice. 

... just my opinions.


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## phreaker (Sep 7, 2017)

chtiger said:


> Would you count the following as a home PB? Doing BLD with no blindfold and on laptop. Finished the solve, hit the spacebar (or so I thought), immediately realizing I forgot to flip an edge. Looked at the time, saw clock still running, didn't see the cube, closed my eyes and flipped the edge, properly stopped timer and cube was solved. Not a PB single, but would be part of a PB mean of 3.



I likely wouldn't... But that's me, I'd want to see a fully solved cube when I pulled off my blindfold.


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## chtiger (Sep 7, 2017)

phreaker said:


> I likely wouldn't... But that's me, I'd want to see a fully solved cube when I pulled off my blindfold.


It was fully solved the first time I saw it. My problem with it is that I intended to end the solve, and only realized clock was still running by opening my eyes, which ends any solving in a blind solve. But then again, I'm not following the official rules anyway, and I didn't see the cube, which makes it an interesting case I think. Right now I've got a PB and a PB*


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## openseas (Sep 7, 2017)

chtiger said:


> It was fully solved the first time I saw it. My problem with it is that I intended to end the solve, and only realized clock was still running by opening my eyes, which ends any solving in a blind solve. But then again, I'm not following the official rules anyway, and I didn't see the cube, which makes it an interesting case I think. Right now I've got a PB and a PB*



I wouldn't either, not just to be strict but more about the nature of BLD. When it comes to memo, anything can be a trigger. Many many times, memo comes around when you open your eyes even without looking anything. But it's just me, too.


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## pglewis (Sep 7, 2017)

Mike Hughey said:


> Is this normal? As I mentioned a little earlier, I've been practicing differently with 3x3x3 - trying to get more efficient with my F2L insertions. I now find that if I time a bunch of solves, and it's not that important to me, I can no longer average better than about 25 seconds. I guess that's because even when timing myself I'm always thinking, "but can I do that better?" Even if I don't actually do it better, I think that just thinking about it is slowing me down. And probably only about 1 in 20 of my single solves are sub-20.
> 
> And yet, for the last 4 averages of 5 that I've done in various of the online competitions (ours and some others), I've gotten sub-19 averages of 5. 4 in a row! (18.92, 18.84, 18.44, 18.81) I've gotten very few sub-19 averages of 5, like ever. It seems like when I feel like it really counts, I really have sped up a lot. But I can't see it when I'm practicing.
> 
> ...



I'm glad @Jason Green chimed-in since he doesn't seem to believe in plateaus yet. He rolled past sub 20 and keeps on going. 

I have a lot of random thoughts about timers and myself, I'm not sure how useful any of it is but I'll take this as enough excuse to ramble. These days I time a lot of my solves (primarily Stackmat) with less untimed practice, but I don't log/track most of them. I don't personally see much value in tracking an Ao1000 or even Ao100 at my level. I've improved since the oldest times in a big session and I've been watching the trend happen, it tells me nothing new. I also think it would discourage me from working on new things, "I'm not doing that new alg, I don't want the hit to my global average!" 

So I basically have two modes of timed solves: sessions where I'm working on things and sessions where I'm actively out to break PRs and evaluate progress. I seem to be in a routine where it's 2-5 weeks between the serious timed sessions with focused practice and spam solving in between. I've developed a decent instinct for when to start timing/logging, several of my PB singles were the first solve after getting the timer out. Sometimes you can just feel it's a good day and maybe a good idea to see if the clock agrees. I can't command it though, like you buckling down in the clutch, so far it happens when it decides to. 

For the majority-- the "casual timed solves"-- I ask myself "why" after a slow solve. Slow because I paused five seconds recalling a new alg is ok. Slow because white looked abysmal and I did a rare yellow cross I don't practice, that's ok. Slow because I spent extra time thinking about a better way to deal with a particular F2L pair, perfectly fine. Slow because I'm thinking "I need to be fast" and I out-turn my lookahead, not okay. Improving means ditching some instincts and establishing new ones and that's a "slower before faster" game. So I try (emphasize try) not to get too frustrated with the inevitable regressions as long as it's not a chronic problem that shouldn't be happening and isn't part of a new learning curve. Many parallels with how I've practiced guitar for decades: thinking is slow and I spend more time practicing slower than I do full speed in order to eventually bypass the thinking.


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## Jason Green (Sep 7, 2017)

openseas said:


> I wouldn't either, not just to be strict but more about the nature of BLD. When it comes to memo, anything can be a trigger. Many many times, memo comes around when you open your eyes even without looking anything. But it's just me, too.


That's a good point. I was trying to imagine this happening and was thinking I would feel like I "might" have saw the edge even if I didn't. Maybe this is what I was thinking without knowing it, that opening my eyes could trigger my memory. @chtiger I agree I'd have a PB*. Best advice is just beat it soon and then the worries are over. 



pglewis said:


> I'm glad @Jason Green chimed-in since he doesn't seem to believe in plateaus yet. He rolled past sub 20 and keeps on going.
> 
> I have a lot of random thoughts about timers and myself, I'm not sure how useful any of it is but I'll take this as enough excuse to ramble. These days I time a lot of my solves (primarily Stackmat) with less untimed practice, but I don't log/track most of them. I don't personally see much value in tracking an Ao1000 or even Ao100 at my level. I've improved since the oldest times in a big session and I've been watching the trend happen, it tells me nothing new. I also think it would discourage me from working on new things, "I'm not doing that new alg, I don't want the hit to my global average!"
> 
> ...


Thanks for the compliment! Although I have to say I feel like I'm plateued now. I've been right around 18 seconds for quite a while now. Of course I practice different things now, something I think a lot of you have always done more than me. The PB single I recently got is a time I will get a few of here and there, it was just very fortunate to get at a comp!

I'm sure many are familiar with the Bruce Lee quote. I never heard this until a cubing post somewhere (probably here). "There are no limits. There are only plateaus, and you must not stay there, you must go beyond them."

I am similar in not caring much about big averages. I haven't even done a good average of 100 or 50 in ages. This is a conscious decision not to make cubing too much work largely. I can get very bogged down with details like this and I'm afraid it would make me burn out, or feel like I "have to" keep doing it to keep cubing. Although the graphs some of you make with thousands of solves are cool, I know mine would basically look the same with maybe slightly different slopes here and there.

It reminds me of my first cell phone. I was about a year out of college. My phone had a call timer that was cumulative minutes and seconds. I think I had 200 minutes a month, but of course every call you made was rounded UP to the next minute. I didn't go to the extent of logging every call, instead I made a spreadsheet that tracked the call timer minutes per month versus the billed minutes. Longer calls would make the ratio closer to 1:1, short calls would tend to affect it more, but I figured on average my call habits would be consistent. The billed minutes were always around 1.7 times what my call timer was. I tracked it for several months and could know by looking at my timer if I was close to going over minutes (not even sure if I could easily check my usage with the provider, but you know I did not want to rely on there possibly delayed data anyway!). In the end it was a fun exercise to play with, but honestly I could have just watched the billed amount for a while and probably gotten a good mental approximation of the same information without crunching numbers. And that's the approach I chose for cubing. After a year I was about X, I've improved about Y%, practicing about Z minutes a day on average. Good enough for me.  Not trying to say don't track stats, just saying do whatever makes it the most fun for you.

Wow that was a ramble!


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## Mike Hughey (Sep 7, 2017)

Thanks for all the responses. I like Jason's suggestions about throwing away timer results when using new algs. It might give me a better feel for how I'm really doing.

I've always tended to be on the other side of this - tracking and timing far too much. That probably comes from my getting hooked on the weekly online competition back when I first started on here in 2007. Since I "compete" in most events every week, I don't give myself a chance to go 2 to 5 weeks between timed sessions. Probably part of what has stunted my advancing. But I enjoy the online competitions too much, so I doubt I'll quit. I could still switch to not doing any timed sessions other than the competitions, though, and that would still mostly work for me. I've sort of been doing that with 3x3x3 for the past few weeks; I think I'll keep doing it - I like what I'm seeing on these competition averages!


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## mark49152 (Sep 7, 2017)

@Mike Hughey : Yes I also throw away some bad times. I time every session - it's habit, I wouldn't want to miss a PB, and I rely on the timer for scrambles. But I don't want to be deterred from learning and progressing so if I see a chance to use a new alg or something else clever like a fancy parity trick or edge control, etc., I go for it and throw the time away if it all goes wrong. Actually I kind of write the solve off at the moment I decide to go for the new alg, rather than afterwards when I see the time, but if it gives a good result I'll keep the time anyway .


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## muchacho (Sep 7, 2017)

I care too much about timing every solve, I'm pretty sure I should spend more time learning something new and practice it in slow solves... but probably won't do it until I'm sure I've stopped improving.

Mo100 PB: 18.265 (old was 18.307 from June)


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## Lid (Sep 7, 2017)

Got my first magnetic cubes today, instant PB a12 on 4x4 (WuQue) (solves 2-13)
1:02.074, 58.819, 1:09.083, 57.126, 1:05.130, 1:07.080, 1:00.222, 1:02.385, (1:19.951), (56.828), 58.043, 59.357
= *1:01.932 *(also last 5 = 59.928 avg)

Testing the 3x3 later


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## xyzzy (Sep 7, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> But I don't want to be deterred from learning and progressing so if I see a chance to use a new alg or something else clever like a fancy parity trick or edge control, etc., I go for it and throw the time away if it all goes wrong.



Sometimes, what I do when I encounter a situation like "I should know this alg, but recalling would take too long" is to just solve it the old/inefficient way, drill the new alg a couple of times, then get back to timed solves. (Doesn't really work when the new thing you want to use is more of a general trick than a memorised algorithm, though.)

Imo this is better since it gets you in the habit of always trying to be consistent in your solves, rather than arbitrarily allowing some of them to be a lot worse than normal.


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## h2f (Sep 7, 2017)

About progress - I've thrown away all care about accuracy in 3bld but I've started to time memo. It gives me motivation to make it shorter and shorter and make as many solves as I can. Result: todays memo mean 21.43 with 14.xx best time. And around 20% accuracy. And I've made over 50 solves. So in this case using timer helps me to keep doing many solves and shorten memo time.


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## mark49152 (Sep 7, 2017)

Nice progress Grzegorz! Your memo is getting fast.


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## Jason Green (Sep 7, 2017)

xyzzy said:


> Sometimes, what I do when I encounter a situation like "I should know this alg, but recalling would take too long" is to just solve it the old/inefficient way, drill the new alg a couple of times, then get back to timed solves. (Doesn't really work when the new thing you want to use is more of a general trick than a memorised algorithm, though.)
> 
> Imo this is better since it gets you in the habit of always trying to be consistent in your solves, rather than arbitrarily allowing some of them to be a lot worse than normal.


The only problem with that is you don't get the experience of real solve integration. I think that's important. Anthony Brooks said in one of his videos you need to _always_ do the new algs you have learned when they come up in practice also. But I think different things work better for different people, so maybe not as helpful for you.


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## h2f (Sep 7, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> Nice progress Grzegorz! Your memo is getting fast.



A few boys in age 15-22 add me to a chat for blinders in Poland. Their results give me motivation to practice. I have got also view pieces of advice. But the most important is: practice. And your results Mark in big bld and mbld are an ispiration for me. I'm also working on sq1 bld thanks to conversation with @Mike Hughey. Your results Mike are also inspiring.  Thanks a lot guys.


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## Jason Green (Sep 7, 2017)

h2f said:


> About progress - I've thrown away all care about accuracy in 3bld but I've started to time memo. It gives me motivation to make it shorter and shorter and make as many solves as I can. Result: todays memo mean 21.43 with 14.xx best time. And around 20% accuracy. And I've made over 50 solves. So in this case using timer helps me to keep doing many solves and shorten memo time.


Memo in 21 seconds I can't even imagine that at this point! That's awesome!


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## pglewis (Sep 7, 2017)

Jason Green said:


> I can get very bogged down with details like this and I'm afraid it would make me burn out, or feel like I "have to" keep doing it to keep cubing.
> ...
> Not trying to say don't track stats, just saying do whatever makes it the most fun for you.



Right on the nose. I love stats, and this hobby is ripe for them, but I fear hardcore session tracking would start to feel like a burden for my practice routine over the long haul. When I get busy and have to take brief breaks from practice it disrupts stat continuity. Some days I'm clearly off but I practice with the timer anyway without any anxiety over tainting my long stats. But that's just me, it could be the most enjoyable part for some people and we know you're not doing it wrong if you're having fun. 



Mike Hughey said:


> Since I "compete" in most events every week, I don't give myself a chance to go 2 to 5 weeks between timed sessions.



I still run the timer more often than not nowadays, I just don't normally bother tracking the sessions until it feels like a good time to go bust some records. At around :26 when warmed up right now I'm not all that interested if I drop my Ao12 by a couple tenths, I'm mostly interested in when I can get it down to 24-25 or better. With a few breaks in practice this year I've noticed my brain continues to process the things I've drilled for weeks even without practice. My LL might get a little rusty but after sharpening that back up for a couple days I've found I was noticeably faster even after 3-4 weeks without much practice. I'm sure a lot of that has to do with the fact that there is still a lot of easy time to be had for me, I wouldn't expect that to hold true if I'm sub 15. 

I usually have a guess in mind for what my time is before actually looking. In most cases I'm reasonably close but I can tell when fatigue is setting in or I need a break when I notice a trend of "wow, I didn't think it was _that_ slow." On the opposite end I tend to recognize a good groove not so much from a few faster solves but a trend towards faster than my guess. When I'm thinking "too many pauses, that's a 28-29" and then see a 23 I'm likely to open up csTimer and switch to "serious mode". In that mode I'll punt on newer algs and revert to full instinct to see where I'm peaking, basically considering it completely under comp rules and mindset, but it's rare I'm in that mode for more than about 20 solves. I'm either tearing it up, and thus landed the PBs I was after, or it was a false alarm... either way it's usually a short stint. 2-5 weeks just seems to be the rough window between those bigger jumps I'm after, usually quicker when I'm able to spam more at my level, go figure . 



mark49152 said:


> ... and I rely on the timer for scrambles ...



I know this is somewhat controversial but I still hand-scramble most of the time. I've developed a superstition that reading notation while scrambling leads me to mental fatigue more quickly in a session but that's entirely empirical.


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## earth2dan (Sep 7, 2017)

Mike Hughey said:


> Is this normal? As I mentioned a little earlier, I've been practicing differently with 3x3x3 - trying to get more efficient with my F2L insertions. I now find that if I time a bunch of solves, and it's not that important to me, I can no longer average better than about 25 seconds. I guess that's because even when timing myself I'm always thinking, "but can I do that better?" Even if I don't actually do it better, I think that just thinking about it is slowing me down. And probably only about 1 in 20 of my single solves are sub-20.
> 
> And yet, for the last 4 averages of 5 that I've done in various of the online competitions (ours and some others), I've gotten sub-19 averages of 5. 4 in a row! (18.92, 18.84, 18.44, 18.81) I've gotten very few sub-19 averages of 5, like ever. It seems like when I feel like it really counts, I really have sped up a lot. But I can't see it when I'm practicing.
> 
> ...


I think that's totally normal. I pull down fairly consistent sub-20 averages when it counts, but I mostly get 21-22 averages when timing practice solves that "don't matter". When I'm practicing I'm thinking about improving, so I'm more critical of how I'm executing each step of the solve. For my weekly race averages, I'm on autopilot. Just get it done as fast as possible.

That said; It's been over a year since I've seen any real improvement on 3x3. One of my 2017 goals was to learn full OLL, but I've still got about 20 to go, and I've been lazy. I've even forgotten some of the ones I'd learned earlier this year :/

Though... Winter is coming (Sorry ) and I usually spend a lot more time cubing during the long miserable Winnipeg Winter. Full OLL in 2017 isn't totally off the table yet.



mark49152 said:


> I go for it and throw the time away if it all goes wrong. Actually I kind of write the solve off at the moment I decide to go for the new alg, rather than afterwards when I see the time, but if it gives a good result I'll keep the time anyway .


Haha. I do this exact same thing. I assume it'll be bad, and if it is I delete it. But if it's good... Hey, why not keep it? I earned it


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## mark49152 (Sep 7, 2017)

pglewis said:


> I know this is somewhat controversial but I still hand-scramble most of the time. I've developed a superstition that reading notation while scrambling leads me to mental fatigue more quickly in a session but that's entirely empirical.


Using proper scrambles is a good habit to get into IMHO. It becomes fast and automatic after a while and now I am too impatient to hand scramble. For hand scrambles I have to use so many moves and a couple of tosses, and still don't trust the result, whereas I can very quickly knock out ~20 computer generated moves.


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## Jason Green (Sep 7, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> Using proper scrambles is a good habit to get into IMHO. It becomes fast and automatic after a while and now I am too impatient to hand scramble. For hand scrambles I have to use so many moves and a couple of tosses, and still don't trust the result, whereas I can very quickly knock out ~20 computer generated moves.


I agree hand scrambling seems too hard once you're used to scrambles. I think it was @Marcel P that recommended I use scrambles soon after I started, and I really think it helps you improve your ability to do algs also.


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## openseas (Sep 7, 2017)

h2f said:


> About progress - I've thrown away all care about accuracy in 3bld but I've started to time memo. It gives me motivation to make it shorter and shorter and make as many solves as I can. Result: todays memo mean 21.43 with 14.xx best time. And around 20% accuracy. And I've made over 50 solves. So in this case using timer helps me to keep doing many solves and shorten memo time.



Wow, 20s memo!

Last competition, my turn was right after Angelo (3BLD 3rd in US Nats 2017). The judge was one of the first timer cubing parents - I guess he thought what Angelo did was normal  After 10s into my memo, he tried to put the paper inbetween my eyes and cube but realized I was still memo'ing, then put the paper back. Funny thing was he tried to do that like every 10s. It could have bothered me but I thought it was really funny during memo. So, all was well 

Below picture is a month ago my status of 3BLD. I'm a data guy - so, I record (not filming though) every my session including memo and execution. After the failure, usually review and make a note what was the cause. I used to make a lot of trace error (like tracing flipped or twisted) but now better. As everybody says, pushing memo is the key to improve 3BLD while execution takes practice. So far, my best memo was 49s, long way to go for sub-30s memo.


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## Jason Green (Sep 7, 2017)

openseas said:


> Wow, 20s memo!
> 
> Last competition, my turn was right after Angelo (3BLD 3rd in US Nats 2017). The judge was one of first timer cubing parents - I guess he thought what Angelo did was normal  After 10s into my memo, he tried to put the paper inbetween my eyes and cube and put the paper back. Funny thing was he tried to do that like every 10s. It could have bothered me but I thought it was really funny during memo. So, all was well
> 
> Below picture is a month ago my status of 3BLD. I'm a data guy - so, I record (not filming though) every my session including memo and execution. After the failure, usually review and make a note what was the cause. I used to make a lot of trace error (like tracing flipped or twisted) but now better. As everybody says, pushing memo is the key to improve 3BLD while execution takes practice. So far, my best memo was 49s, long way to go for sub-30s memo.


The charts are cool! I kind of asked about this on FB but don't think my question was clear. How do you chart C-Trace and C-Memo? I think you said you memo while tracing so I don't understand the two colors on the bar chart.


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## openseas (Sep 7, 2017)

Jason Green said:


> The charts are cool! I kind of asked about this on FB but don't think my question was clear. How do you chart C-Trace and C-Memo? I think you said you memo while tracing so I don't understand the two colors on the bar chart.



Memo fail is when I forgot some letter pairs or completely forgot what memo was. For example,(edge is easier to explain), edge memo was AB CD JL NO HG W but I forgot one of letter pair (like skip like HG). So, I know my audio memo toward the end was not good enough or audio sound was fuzzy.

The trace fail is when I traced wrong - instead of UR piece, if I memo'd as RU, then, I ended up with a flipped edge. In this case, I executed what I memorized but just target was wrong.

Not sure whether it makes sense but I tried to breakdown the source of error (which is what I do for a living )


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## Jason Green (Sep 7, 2017)

openseas said:


> Memo fail is when I forgot some letter pairs or completely forgot what memo was. For example,(edge is easier to explain), edge memo was AB CD JL NO HG W but I forgot one of letter pair (like skip like HG). So, I know my audio memo toward the end was not good enough or audio sound was fuzzy.
> 
> The trace fail is when I traced wrong - instead of UR piece, if I memo'd as RU, then, I ended up with a flipped edge. In this case, I executed what I memorized but just target was wrong.
> 
> Not sure whether it makes sense but I tried to breakdown the source of error (which is what I do for a living )


Oh so the chart on the right is only the reason for failures!? I thought it was a breakdown of what percentage of time each part of a solve was, including successes. I see now (I think).


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## Lid (Sep 9, 2017)

Nine year to reach this milestone ... sub1 a12 on 4x4x4 

{(52.418), (1:09.054), 56.215, 55.510, 1:00.173}, 1:02.393, 56.469, 1:04.942, 58.282, 55.980, 1:01.594, 1:08.021
= *59.958*
also includes a new {a5} PB of *57.299*



Spoiler: scambles



Average of 12: 59.958
1. (52.418) U' r' B2 U2 F' B2 D' r D' B' U2 L' D2 f' F' U f' B F2 U' B2 U' F2 r F L U2 r' F D2 r' U B2 L2 F2 f' D2 L' F r'
2. (1:09.054) U2 L2 F L' R r2 F' L2 F L2 f2 r u2 B' u r' D' u' f B' r2 D2 r' L2 f R U L D2 B2 u2 L f D F2 f2 u' D2 B u
3. 56.215 r2 F r2 R B' u' U2 B u' F' D' L2 f' R2 F' D' u U f' D F2 u f' D2 B2 F' D2 f u U B f2 D r2 R' L B2 F2 u2 r
4. 55.510 R D2 f' F' r' B' R u F' R B f D R F2 D' r2 R2 D r' R2 L B' u2 D2 r2 R2 u' R' F' f r2 F2 r' D F U' R r' B'
5. 1:00.173 R' F u' U r F2 R r2 U r2 u2 L2 B2 u2 F' D' r2 u2 D2 L R U2 f' U2 u2 f' R' u2 r2 f' L' r R' D2 u2 R2 F B L2 U'
6. 1:02.393 L U u2 R2 L' f2 D R2 F2 R' F f r2 D R' U r R u2 B f' r2 F R2 u L' f L' D F D B' f' F' L2 r2 f2 R U2 B'
7. 56.469 L R' B u2 R' D2 L D f' F r2 f2 L F L2 r R2 D' B2 F r2 B R2 B2 U2 f B2 F' L r2 u R' B L' F2 B' U2 u L B
8. 1:04.942 L' f R2 u2 L' R D R2 D2 r u2 L2 D' u2 F2 f' r2 B' r' D R f2 U F2 u f' B u' D2 B' U' u R' F U' B' u F2 B R'
9. 58.282 U R2 U' u' F f2 D2 B D' F' D' L R' f' B2 u F2 R B2 F' L2 B2 f U2 F2 L' F2 u' D' U' L B2 D' F2 U f D2 u R' f'
10. 55.980 F' R r2 f' R' u' r U' r D2 u' B2 u F' U2 B R2 B R L u' r u B' u f2 D2 F B r2 B D B L2 f U2 f F2 U' R'
11. 1:01.594 D U r2 D' U2 R2 B2 f2 u2 B2 D2 r' L f' D2 U2 F2 L' r' R' B f' L' f' r2 D' R u2 r U2 f' L u2 f' B2 r2 L2 R2 B' R
12. 1:08.021 L R2 D R2 U' R2 B2 u2 B' f' u2 D' f' D' u' L2 D L' r U' u2 L2 D f u2 F2 L2 u2 f' B' U2 u B u' f' u' U' r2 F L'


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## newtonbase (Sep 9, 2017)

Lid said:


> Nine year to reach this milestone ... sub1 a12 on 4x4x4
> 
> {(52.418), (1:09.054), 56.215, 55.510, 1:00.173}, 1:02.393, 56.469, 1:04.942, 58.282, 55.980, 1:01.594, 1:08.021
> = *59.958*
> ...


Well done!


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## Jason Green (Sep 12, 2017)

As I was practicing some blind tonight, I realized I don't have much of a clue as to what "average" improvement rates are amongst us older blinders. Maybe you guys talk about it as much as 3x3 improvement and I just never paid attention. I admit I did skim the blind posts in the past.  I'd be curious to know approximately how improvement progressed for some of you, when you hit plateues, etc. I know @openseas hasn't been doing it too long I think and is already breaking 2 minutes, which seems a very fast progression. I forget when you started exactly Jae.

It was very motivating to me for 3x3 to help me pursue sub 20. Not just knowing how fast others did it but that it was attainable. I guess a follow up would be, what do you consider the "sub 20 equivalent" for blind? I guess with 3x3 it took me a while before I started believing I would be sub 20, but I don't even have any long term goals yet for blind. 2 minutes, 1:30, what's realistic for "most" people?


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## openseas (Sep 12, 2017)

Jason Green said:


> As I was practicing some blind tonight, I realized I don't have much of a clue as to what "average" improvement rates are amongst us older blinders. Maybe you guys talk about it as much as 3x3 improvement and I just never paid attention. I admit I did skim the blind posts in the past.  I'd be curious to know approximately how improvement progressed for some of you, when you hit plateues, etc. I know @openseas hasn't been doing it too long I think and is already breaking 2 minutes, which seems a very fast progression. I forget when you started exactly Jae.
> 
> It was very motivating to me for 3x3 to help me pursue sub 20. Not just knowing how fast others did it but that it was attainable. I guess a follow up would be, what do you consider the "sub 20 equivalent" for blind? I guess with 3x3 it took me a while before I started believing I would be sub 20, but I don't even have any long term goals yet for blind. 2 minutes, 1:30, what's realistic for "most" people?



So, I started two weeks before Texas 2 days (~6/9, so, it makes roughly 5/25 as my start date), one week into the practice, first success was 5min. Since I've got the first sub2 late August, it took about 3 months from the start to sub 2. (Posting in the facebook makes it easy to keep track of when something happened  But as we all know, it's not just time but more about practice. I didn't do any other events last 3 months except 3BLD & MBLD. These are much intense in terms of practice compared to 3x3.

When I started, of course, my goal was just getting an official success - now I know low/middle one minute is achievable. I didn't set any specific goals in terms of time for 3BLD but I do want to switch to 3-style and learn commutators at some points. I haven't started yet but just by reading, I realized how less I know about cubing & algorithms. I just memorized bunch of algorithms without understanding much so far.

Regarding sub-20 equivalent, I feel like sub 1 mark would be similar to that land mark (sub 20 in 3x3). I'll check official results & time : 3x3 vs 3BLD which can give us more statistical answer.


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## h2f (Sep 12, 2017)

Jason Green said:


> what "average" improvement rates are amongst us older blinders.



It's not easy to determine because it's up of 3 things: memo time, solve time and a method. If we take ratio normal solve to 3bld it looks like the ratio is around 1:4 (18,31/4,69=3,9). It means 20 seconds is like 1:20 second solve in 3bld . But 1:20 solve in 3bld ranks gives you 495 place of 4180 (around 11% of blinders got it). In normal solve sub20 solve gives you 27773 place of 78782 (around 35% of solvers got it). 35% solvers in 3bld got 2:33 time or better. So at first look it's between 2:30 and 1:20.

Looking at the methods: using CFOP it takes around 56 moves to solve the cube. To hit 20 seconds barrier you need 2look OLL so lets add 6 moves. 62/20=3,1 TPS. But with 3style you need around 90-100 moves to solve the cube. So with TPS 3,1 it gives 30 seconds solve time. But with M2/OP mixture I belive number grows to over 200. It means 200/3 = 66 seconds solve at least. After all you must add memo time to it. 

Looking at these factors I think a fair equivalent of sub20 is sub 2 minutes. It means you can memo cube around 1 minute and your solve is the second minute which is quite fast: you are familiar with method, you can make some tricks to make it easier etc. My notes says I've got a single 2 minute solve after half year of practicing 3bld. This means hitting it is easier than 20 seconds in normal solve but the explanation is simple: all you learn in 3bld is only how to memo the cube because you know the algs (ok - you learn few extra algs but not so many as in normal solve). In normal solve it's harder because you learn algs and all the stuff to solve the cube.


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## Jason Green (Sep 12, 2017)

openseas said:


> So, I started two weeks before Texas 2 days (~6/9, so, it makes roughly 5/25 as my start date), one week into the practice, first success was 5min. Since I've got the first sub2 late August, it took about 3 months from the start to sub 2. (Posting in the facebook makes it easy to keep track of when something happened  But as we all know, it's not just time but more about practice. I didn't do any other events last 3 months except 3BLD & MBLD. These are much intense in terms of practice compared to 3x3.
> 
> When I started, of course, my goal was just getting an official success - now I know low/middle one minute is achievable. I didn't set any specific goals in terms of time for 3BLD but I do want to switch to 3-style and learn commutators at some points. I haven't started yet but just by reading, I realized how less I know about cubing & algorithms. I just memorized bunch of algorithms without understanding much so far.
> 
> Regarding sub-20 equivalent, I feel like sub 1 mark would be similar to that land mark (sub 20 in 3x3). I'll check official results & time : 3x3 vs 3BLD which can give us more statistical answer.


Thanks, that seems really fast progression to me! I do think my practice is less these days than when I got into speed cubing, but I started blind 7/25 and do not really see myself catching up to 2 minutes by 3 months. I was guessing sub 1 is more like sub 15, but that's a wild guess I don't know where from.


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## openseas (Sep 12, 2017)

h2f said:


> It's not easy to determine because it's up of 3 things: memo time, solve time and a method. If we take ratio normal solve to 3bld it looks like the ratio is around 1:4 (18,31/4,69=3,9). It means 20 seconds is like 1:20 second solve in 3bld . But 1:20 solve in 3bld ranks gives you 495 place of 4180 (around 11% of blinders got it). In normal solve sub20 solve gives you 27773 place of 78782 (around 35% of solvers got it). 35% solvers in 3bld got 2:33 time or better. So at first look it's between 2:30 and 1:20.
> 
> Looking at the methods: using CFOP it takes around 56 moves to solve the cube. To hit 20 seconds barrier you need 2look OLL so lets add 6 moves. 62/20=3,1 TPS. But with 3style you need around 90-100 moves to solve the cube. So with TPS 3,1 it gives 30 seconds solve time. But with M2/OP mixture I belive number grows to over 200. It means 200/3 = 66 seconds solve at least. After all you must add memo time to it.
> 
> Looking at these factors I think a fair equivalent of sub20 is sub 2 minutes. It means you can memo cube around 1 minute and your solve is the second minute which is quite fast: you are familiar with method, you can make some tricks to make it easier etc. My notes says I've got a single 2 minute solve after half year of practicing 3bld. This means hitting it is easier than 20 seconds in normal solve but the explanation is simple: all you learn in 3bld is only how to memo the cube because you know the algs (ok - you learn few extra algs but not so many as in normal solve). In normal solve it's harder because you learn algs and all the stuff to solve the cube.



So, I compared 333 vs 3BLD for all official results.

333 Sub 10 = 3.8% --> 30s in 3BLD ranking
333 Sub 15 = 19.6% --> 63s in 3BLD ranking
333 Sub 20 = 36.6% --> 98s in 3BLD ranking

It is interesting. I think we can safely say that, Sub 20 ~ 90s, Sub 15 ~ 60s, Sub 10 ~ 30s in 3BLD but the big factor here is, not many people are doing 3BLD compared to 333, so, we can relax the spec(!) for 3BLD a little bit.


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## openseas (Sep 12, 2017)

h2f said:


> My notes says I've got a single 2 minute solve after half year of practicing 3bld. This means hitting it is easier than 20 seconds in normal solve but the explanation is simple: all you learn in 3bld is only how to memo the cube because you know the algs (ok - you learn few extra algs but not so many as in normal solve). In normal solve it's harder because you learn algs and all the stuff to solve the cube.



I agree. It took me longer than one year to break 20s at home. But another factor, as far as I know, we all started 3x3x3 first then started BLD once we are fairly good (relatively) at learning algs & turning fast enough. So, it's not like you learn 3BLD without any knowledge or finger trick practice. That is another factor which makes 3BLD progress a bit faster than 3x3x3.


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## h2f (Sep 12, 2017)

openseas said:


> 333 Sub 10 = 3.8% --> 30s in 3BLD ranking
> 333 Sub 15 = 19.6% --> 63s in 3BLD ranking
> 333 Sub 20 = 36.6% --> 98s in 3BLD ranking



Are sure with these numbers in 3bld? 

And a kind of accoplishment. My yesterdays solve in practicing memo. Around 1,5 to PB. (I didnt realize it till looked at my notes).


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## openseas (Sep 12, 2017)

h2f said:


> Are sure with these numbers in 3bld?



This table shows all events comparison by each 10% ranking.


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## NewbieCuber (Sep 12, 2017)

Fyzzna said:


> After all this craze about magnetic cubes I finally gave in and decided to make one myself. Bought myself a cheap cube (MF3RS) to test the water and went to work. It was surprisingly easy and a little under two hours later I was finished and had the cube assembled again.
> The result: meh.
> Honestly not very impressed with this. The outer layers feel pretty good but M slices are absolutely horrible on this cube (it's also very locky, almost more so than before magnetizing it). It might be because of the cheap cube but right now I definitely don't want to take the chance of ruining my valk by putting magnets in it.
> 
> On a happier note: With the MF3RS I also ordered a thunderclap (v1) and I absolutely love this thing! There is a serious possibility this could replace the valk as my main so there's that



I love my MF3RS's and I sort of like, but am not overwhelmed with my Thunderclap. So many people like the Thunderclap that I'm thinking that I just need to do a couple hundred solves on mine before I decide if I like it or not. My main MF3RS has over 1000 solves on it (which is a lot for me since I'm pretty new to this) and it's just buttery smooth. I'm about to order a pre-magnatized MF3RS from thecubicle.us. I'll be interested to see if I have the same issues as you.

But you've inspired me to take out my Thunderclap and try it again.


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## mark49152 (Sep 12, 2017)

I agree that 1:30 3BLD is about equivalent to 20s 3x3. For me, improving down to about 30-25s was just about becoming more competent at solving 3x3 - learning a full method, developing good finger style and finding the right algs, becoming able to find pieces more quickly, etc. Improvement came naturally with practice. At about 30-25s it became necessary to focus on speed to get faster, and sub-20 was about the point where natural improvement stopped and it took deliberate and determined effort to get any faster.

I reached a similar stage with 3BLD at about 1:30. Down to about 2:00, improvement came naturally and I didn't have to think about being fast. Beyond that I had to focus more on speed, and at around 1:30 that's when I had to really start working deliberately to get faster, focusing on pushing memo, improving my execution methods and think ahead, etc.


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## h2f (Sep 12, 2017)

openseas said:


> This table shows all events comparison by each 10% ranking.



Ok. Thanks. I looked at WCA database.


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## pglewis (Sep 12, 2017)

h2f said:


> ... And a kind of accoplishment. My yesterdays solve in practicing memo. Around 1,5 to PB. (I didnt realize it till looked at my notes). ...



This gets a definite "wow" from me . 



NewbieCuber said:


> I love my MF3RS's and I sort of like, but am not overwhelmed with my Thunderclap. So many people like the Thunderclap that I'm thinking that I just need to do a couple hundred solves on mine before I decide if I like it or not. My main MF3RS has over 1000 solves on it (which is a lot for me since I'm pretty new to this) and it's just buttery smooth. I'm about to order a pre-magnatized MF3RS from thecubicle.us. I'll be interested to see if I have the same issues as you.
> 
> But you've inspired me to take out my Thunderclap and try it again.



What I like about the Thunderclap is it seems to be a very tuneable puzzle via tensions and lube and it just seems so predictable from session to session. A lot of others seem to have a tension sweet spot and tend to revert to doing their thing a day or two after lubing. I'm disappointed in the feel of the stickerless Thunderclap vs. black, however, and I don't drag the old Thunderclaps out as often as I used to. But due to the price and reliability I'm fond of the idea of magnetizing a bunch of black ones for mbld like @newtonbase has done.


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## pglewis (Sep 12, 2017)

I've been so lazy about blind practice and @Jason Green swoops right in and passes me immediately. Granted, my goal this year was just to learn it and _maybe_ manage an official success. Learning it turned out to be a lot easier than I expected but I didn't take that opportunity forge ahead of my goals. 

Longer term I'm more interested in breaking into mbld than focusing on 3bld speed; with 3bld I could be happy PB'ing a couple times next year. For mbld I managed a 2/2 once back in mid summer and I'd like to work up to the 3-5 range next year for an official attempt or two.


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## Zerksies (Sep 12, 2017)

Hello I'm 38 and I've been cubing for about 10 years. I just started back up 2 months ago after a long kinda break. (I was excursively using V-cubes at the time.) They were really good at the time but not that good i guess that's why i kinda lost interest in cubing. I've had to relearn OLL,PLL and a bunch of parity. Well i stepped into a new world of all these nice Magnetic cubes. Right now I'm averaging 30 seconds but my PB is 22. I have had several hand surgeries (Not from cubing and before i ever started) but my best is Sub-18. I'm trying for sub 15 right now. I really enjoy the learning and stress relief that cubing gives me.


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## pglewis (Sep 12, 2017)

Zerksies said:


> Hello I'm 38 and I've been cubing for about 10 years. I just started back up 2 months ago after a long kinda break. (I was excursively using V-cubes at the time.) They were really good at the time but not that good i guess that's why i kinda lost interest in cubing. I've had to relearn OLL,PLL and a bunch of parity. Well i stepped into a new world of all these nice Magnetic cubes. Right now I'm averaging 30 seconds but my PB is 22. I have had several hand surgeries (Not from cubing and before i ever started) but my best is Sub-18. I'm trying for sub 15 right now. I really enjoy the learning and stress relief that cubing gives me.



Welcome back into it, you're in the right place. It's a very encouraging crowd with a free spending Like-based economy in here. 

You've reminded me of something I've been meaning to open up for discussion: we have an unofficial over-40s ranking list at https://github.com/Logiqx/wca-ipy but I've thinking for a while that there would probably be a lot of interest in a 30-40 bracket. Most of the over 40s are probably first gen cubers like myself; that 30-40 range fits well for people active from the first renaissance in the early-mid aughts. Heck, I suspect we have more people in this thread, either active or lurking, in the 30-40 range than the over 40s.


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## newtonbase (Sep 12, 2017)

Zerksies said:


> Hello I'm 38 and I've been cubing for about 10 years. I just started back up 2 months ago after a long kinda break. (I was excursively using V-cubes at the time.) They were really good at the time but not that good i guess that's why i kinda lost interest in cubing. I've had to relearn OLL,PLL and a bunch of parity. Well i stepped into a new world of all these nice Magnetic cubes. Right now I'm averaging 30 seconds but my PB is 22. I have had several hand surgeries (Not from cubing and before i ever started) but my best is Sub-18. I'm trying for sub 15 right now. I really enjoy the learning and stress relief that cubing gives me.


Did we bump into each other on Facebook? I'm Mark Adams in real life.


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## Jason Green (Sep 12, 2017)

Zerksies said:


> Hello I'm 38 and I've been cubing for about 10 years. I just started back up 2 months ago after a long kinda break. (I was excursively using V-cubes at the time.) They were really good at the time but not that good i guess that's why i kinda lost interest in cubing. I've had to relearn OLL,PLL and a bunch of parity. Well i stepped into a new world of all these nice Magnetic cubes. Right now I'm averaging 30 seconds but my PB is 22. I have had several hand surgeries (Not from cubing and before i ever started) but my best is Sub-18. I'm trying for sub 15 right now. I really enjoy the learning and stress relief that cubing gives me.


Welcome, glad to see you here! Keep at it you'll get the sub 15 I'm sure.


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## Zerksies (Sep 13, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> Did we bump into each other on Facebook? I'm Mark Adams in real life.


Could be I'm in a few cubing groups on FB


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## newtonbase (Sep 13, 2017)

Zerksies said:


> Could be I'm in a few cubing groups on FB


I looked back. You mentioned your hand surgeries on a thread about over 40s where I posted a link to here and to @Logiqx 's older cubers data. Glad you made it.


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## Zerksies (Sep 13, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> I looked back. You mentioned your hand surgeries on a thread about over 40s where I posted a link to here and to @Logiqx 's older cubers data. Glad you made it.


It's kinda nice dealing with older guys instead of kids


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## Lid (Sep 13, 2017)

OH PB today in practice for this Sunday competition: *22.893* a12,
also got a new a5 PB in there: *20.424 *(solve 4-8), cube: a normal Valk3


Spoiler: times/scambles



Average of 12: 22.893
1. 24.671 R2 U' F2 U R2 D B2 D F2 U' L D R' F2 U2 B' D' F D R
2. 23.215 R' L D2 F' L F2 D B2 R' B L2 U' F2 U R2 F2 U L2 U B2 L2
3. 22.112 F2 D L2 F2 U R2 U' L2 R2 U2 B2 F D2 L' R' F D' R D F2 R2
4. (19.897) U2 L2 R2 B L2 R2 U2 B2 F D2 B L F R2 D' R' U L2 D B2 F
5. 26.403 D2 F D2 L2 B2 L2 R2 U2 R2 F' R' D' F2 L D F2 R2 F' D F
6. 19.913 U' L2 F2 U B2 U2 R2 D' B2 R2 U F L2 U L' R B L U R U2
7. 20.320 U B2 F2 R2 F2 D B2 D U2 L2 U' R D' F' L B R2 F D' B' F'
8. 21.038 B2 D2 R2 D B2 L2 R2 U L2 B2 R' D' B2 U L F L R' F2 D2
9. 23.724 F2 R2 F2 U F2 U2 L2 U' F2 U' B' D' B' U L2 F' U2 R B F2
10. (27.328) F2 R2 B2 D2 B2 D' L2 R2 U' L2 U F' U2 F L' D' F L2 B L2
11. 25.221 B2 U2 R F2 R' D2 R2 D2 U2 R' B2 F D' L D' B2 R D2 B' D R'
12. 22.314 R2 F' U2 R2 B' R2 F2 D2 R2 U2 F' R' B' R2 U' B L2 B' R2 B'



Goals for this comp:
Atleast one PB, like I had in every comp so far.
2x2: don't care
3x3: sub15 single ... sub16 avg?
4x4: more sub1 singles
5x5: sub2 single?
OH: PB avg & single
I won't do: 3BLD & Feet.

edit: new a12 3x3 PB also today, first with my Valk3 M: *15.220*


Spoiler: times/scambles



Average of 12: 15.220
1. 14.837 U2 L' U2 F2 R' D2 U2 L' F2 L R D L' R2 F2 D F L' B U' B
2. 14.590 R2 B2 U B2 U B2 U B2 D2 F2 U F' D' L F2 D F2 L2 B2 R' B'
3. 14.015 B2 U B2 U' B2 D' B2 F2 U2 B2 U' L' R' U' R' B' R2 D F' L' B
4. 15.679 L2 U L2 U2 B' R' F D' F' U2 F2 L D2 R F2 R U2 R' D2 F2
5. 14.756 D' L D B D R' U' B' D2 F U L2 U' F2 U' F2 L2 D' F2 D2 B2
6. (20.204) R2 U2 B2 F2 R B2 L D2 L F2 R' D R D B' U2 L' F D2 L2
7. 15.973 U2 B2 D' B2 D F2 R2 D B2 U' L2 B U' F2 U' R F2 D' U F' U'
8. 14.974 B2 U2 F L2 B D2 F L2 R2 D2 R2 D L2 R U' L2 D2 B D' B2 F'
9. (13.288) R2 F2 U2 R2 B' F2 L2 B2 U2 L2 F' D' F2 U2 R' D F' U2 L D R'
10. 17.721 D U B2 R2 U' R2 D2 U' F2 R2 U2 F L' F L2 F' R F2 D R2 F
11. 14.395 D2 L F2 D2 L' R2 B2 L2 D2 B2 D B' F U' B2 U' B' D L' B2
12. 15.260 R2 B' R' F U' D L' F2 L' B' U2 R F2 D2 L F2 R L2 F2 R2 D2


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## pglewis (Sep 13, 2017)

I've been biting my nails over getting my 3bld back up to snuff before the weekend and I'm cutting it close, a couple days ago I was still having far too many silly execution errors. Big fist pump over landing 2 out of 3 attempts at the coffee shop this morning with music and distractions, though.


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## mafergut (Sep 13, 2017)

Hi guys, another long break without posting here. Welcome to the new people in the forum and congrats again to everyone making so much progress in 3BLD. I had to stop practising before finishing my 4th Ao1000 at skewb, when I was very, very close to sub-8. Around 8.01 to 8.07 but I got sick and then got a terrible back ache that put me in bed and now I'm under treatment and slowly becoming better but still walking with crutches and suffering a lot of pain.

Regarding cubing, I got my 4-layer SS Pyra. It's nice and I managed to solve it intuitively, but the centers gave me a bit of a pain in the arse to get them fixed. The redi cube was a disappointment. It turns very smoothly but the corners do not give any additional challenge to a normal dino cube and they catch like crazy so trying to speedsolve it is not a nice experience. Not recommended. The Cyclone Boys mini 4x4 57mm FeiTeng turns nice, as promised, like an already broken in G4 but for me it's too small to get good times with it. Nice as a travel cube but as a speed cube it's ages behind my WuQue M.

I have also solved other cubes I had purchased some weeks ago, like the WitEden Mixup Plus 3x3x3. Very nice puzzle and interesting solve (but I had to check some commutators in a tutorial video). The Camouflage ones are also entertaining and easy to solve reducing them to a 2x2. The super 3x3x3 crazy is a bit repetitive but needs imaginative approach to solving so also recommended.

I just ordered a Bauhinia and a Curvy Starminx to a Spanish shop (Los Mundos de Rubik, just in case @muchacho is interested) and right now I'm trying to find a reasonably priced mirror 4x4x4, which is not available mass produced so I'm in contact with several modders. I will also get a 2x2 mirror which is missing in my collection. Basically drifting towards non-WCA puzzles lately as my speedsolving ability seems to be in a very long plateau, something you have also talked about these days. I'm stuck at around 18sec 3x3 like forever and that's becoming frustrating and boring.

Happy cubing!


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## Reed Merrill (Sep 14, 2017)

Hi all, I'm just wondering who qualifies as an older cuber? I'm 24 but I often feel pretty old in this community too (based on some videos of smaller competitions that I've seen I think I could still be one of the oldest competitors).

Edit: if I ever actually decide to go to a competition.


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## newtonbase (Sep 14, 2017)

Reed Merrill said:


> Hi all, I'm just wondering who qualifies as an older cuber? I'm 24 but I often feel pretty old in this community too (based on some videos of smaller competitions that I've seen I think I could still be one of the oldest competitors).





Reed Merrill said:


> Edit: if I ever actually decide to go to a competition.


We don't worry too much about actual age here, and you should definitely get to a competition.


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## mafergut (Sep 14, 2017)

With that said, most of us here are over 40 or at least close to that. I'm 47, for example. Welcome to the forum anyway, if you feel old enough to hang out here with us, then we are more than happy to have you


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## Jason Green (Sep 14, 2017)

Reed Merrill said:


> Hi all, I'm just wondering who qualifies as an older cuber? I'm 24 but I often feel pretty old in this community too (based on some videos of smaller competitions that I've seen I think I could still be one of the oldest competitors).


Everyone is always welcome! For years this thread was called "Hi, Marcel from Holland here" (think that's it). A while back one of us (forget who) asked the admins to rename it.


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## Zerksies (Sep 14, 2017)

mafergut said:


> With that said, most of us here are over 40 or at least close to that. I'm 47, for example. Welcome to the forum anyway, if you feel old enough to hang out here with us, then we are more than happy to have you


I'm 38 and i kinda feel the same way. I guess it's more a maturity level thing. I don't have the time some of these kids do. I can probably spend a hour a day cubing if I'm lucky between job, my own business and a newborn. And most of my time is probably on my lunch hour or when the kid is sleeping to content and not screaming or need a feeding


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## pglewis (Sep 14, 2017)

Reed Merrill said:


> Hi all, I'm just wondering who qualifies as an older cuber? I'm 24 but I often feel pretty old in this community too (based on some videos of smaller competitions that I've seen I think I could still be one of the oldest competitors).



Welcome! It's very informal in here. You're below the median age of the people who regularly post in this thread but you might find you relate a lot more to the conversations here regardless and there's no snobbishness. 

This is a sport where over 20 is currently considered somewhat "old" so it's possible you could be the oldest at a competition. Not as likely as for me, I'll hit 50 in late January. I'm not pushing 50 though, I'm dragging 40.


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## openseas (Sep 14, 2017)

Reed Merrill said:


> Hi all, I'm just wondering who qualifies as an older cuber? I'm 24 but I often feel pretty old in this community too (based on some videos of smaller competitions that I've seen I think I could still be one of the oldest competitors).




Last time (2015) when Feliks won the worlds, people asked him about his retirement while he was only 19!

At @newtonbase said, you should go to a comp. I learn a lot from these kids (my son's age) and feel much less old. And many delegates are in their 20s and love to have mature cubers.

Welcome aboard!


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## newtonbase (Sep 14, 2017)

openseas said:


> Last time (2015) when Feliks won the worlds, people asked him about his retirement while he was only 19!


Wasn't he the oldest person in the final this year?


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## Jason Green (Sep 14, 2017)

openseas said:


> Last time (2015) when Feliks won the worlds, people asked him about his retirement while he was only 19!
> 
> At @newtonbase said, you should go to a comp. I learn a lot from these kids (my son's age) and feel much less old. And many delegates are in their 20s and love to have mature cubers.
> 
> Welcome aboard!


Yes and the kids have always made me feel very welcome despite being the age of their parents or older usually. I think in general cubers tend to be very welcoming to all other cubers regardless of age or skill level. It's an interesting bond, perhaps cubing is the answer for world peace.


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## openseas (Sep 14, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> Wasn't he the oldest person in the final this year?


Yes, he was the oldest by 5 month


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## Reed Merrill (Sep 15, 2017)

Thanks for the warm welcome everyone!



Zerksies said:


> I'm 38 and i kinda feel the same way. I guess it's more a maturity level thing. I don't have the time some of these kids do. I can probably spend a hour a day cubing if I'm lucky between job, my own business and a newborn. And most of my time is probably on my lunch hour or when the kid is sleeping to content and not screaming or need a feeding



Sounds a lot like my situation, except I'm a student and I often use cubing as a diversion when I need a study break at the University. Anyway, I don't really have the drive to put in 8 hours sessions like some teenaged cubers do XD


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## muchacho (Sep 15, 2017)

I've solved this windmill cube:
http://www.zcube.vip/FX-333-FengHuoLun

I think I solved it once but my niece scrambled it like 2 months ago, time to hide it now. Still have 5 cubes (fisher, axis, mastermorphix, pyramorphix, 7x7) that I have not solved yet.

edit: ...and I've just received a redi cube, a honey copter and a 2x2x3.


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## NewbieCuber (Sep 15, 2017)

I'm SO CLOSE to getting a sub 1 minute average on my 3x3.

Ao 100 : 1:23.33
Ao 50 : 1:17.69
Ao 12 : 1:09.91
A05 : 1:00.43
PB 51.46
This is with 335 timed solves. Probably a couple of thousand un-timed solves.

If I can cut a few seconds off of my cross and F2L that will do it. My 2 look OLL and 2 look PLL is pretty comfortable although I keep finding myself in places where I really wish I knew my PLL better. I'm noticing that I'm seeing a lot of J perms and N perms. I don't know those algs so I do a U perm to put it into another U perm which I can solve.

Holy Cow, it's so close. I keep getting 3 or 4 sub minute solves and then a disastrous 1:20+ solve.

Then again, I would have been seriously happy to have one of those "disastrous" 1:20 solves a month ago.


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## pglewis (Sep 15, 2017)

NewbieCuber said:


> If I can cut a few seconds off of my cross and F2L that will do it.



And with four F2L pairs if you cut a half second off solving a pair on average that works out to ~2 seconds saved. You'll be there soon.



NewbieCuber said:


> My 2 look OLL and 2 look PLL is pretty comfortable although I keep finding myself in places where I really wish I knew my PLL better. I'm noticing that I'm seeing a lot of J perms and N perms. I don't know those algs so I do a U perm to put it into another U perm which I can solve.



N-perms are actually as rare as a PLL skip with a 1/72 probability (this assumes you do nothing to intentionally affect the resulting PLL, of course). That doesn't mean you still won't see 3 of them out of 5 solves sometimes . FWIW, those were the last two I learned and are my weakest PLLs to this day. @Logiqx has a nice page on PLL algs for both 2H and one handed and includes the probability for each, most are 1/18. http://cubing.mikeg.me.uk/algs/pll.html


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## mafergut (Sep 15, 2017)

@muchacho, a honey copter? Is that the redi cube with heart shaped edges?

Look what I got today in the mail from Los Mundos de Rubik:


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## muchacho (Sep 15, 2017)

Yes, that one, (it's beautiful, and) seems to be easy enough to solve (even more than a redi cube), not like those you've bought!


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## mafergut (Sep 15, 2017)

muchacho said:


> Yes, that one, (it's beautiful, and) seems to be easy enough to solve (even more than a redi cube), not like those you've bought!


Yeah, these two dodecahedrons seem pretty intimidating. Started trying to come up with some commutators / piece cycles to solve them but still nothing. I also ordered a 2x2 mirror blocks (missing in my collection), a Dayan Tangram Extreme and the new Moyu Fisher Time Wheel.


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## Jason Green (Sep 16, 2017)

NewbieCuber said:


> I'm SO CLOSE to getting a sub 1 minute average on my 3x3.
> 
> Ao 100 : 1:23.33
> Ao 50 : 1:17.69
> ...


J perms are the best, you should learn them! N perms suck.  You'll get sub 1 soon!


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## newtonbase (Sep 16, 2017)

Jason Green said:


> J perms are the best, you should learn them! N perms suck.  You'll get sub 1 soon!


I love J perms too. And T's but they are the same thing. 
N perms turn up a lot when doing 2 look PLL. They are easy to learn but horrible to execute.


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## Lid (Sep 16, 2017)

Another ½ s shaved of on my a5 4x4: 56.56 ; times: 57.151, 58.440, (53.974), (1:02.999), 54.086


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## pglewis (Sep 17, 2017)

Good day for me in Nashville, comp postmortem: 

Pyraminx: I signed up but I care so little that I didn't practice any; I decided to forego it in favor of more practice on 3x3 and 3bld. 

3bld: 10 min limit, got a 9:45 on my first attempt . After going 2/3 both Wed and Thu at the coffee shop I went 0/3 on Fri, didn't get a success Fri night while timing to see roughly where I was at, and not a single success practicing at the venue. It was very difficult, my concentration was seriously fighting me during memo, but peeking at the timer a couple times during memo reassured me I could still do it so I hung with it. I even had to lift the blindfold before making any turns to double check a couple edges one last time. I just DNS'ed the other two solves, I got what I was after and saw no reason to take up 15-20 more minutes of table time just to see if I could get one in the 6-8 range. I actually landed 6th on the merits of having a success with 11 people DNFing. Fifth place was a 4:13, so I wasn't likely to improve my position had I attempted. 

3x3: 33.30, (27.06), 27.27, 38.59, (46.73) for a 33.05 average. First solve, the judge spaced-out on calling 8 seconds. I knew it seemed like a long time without an alert but I also know my sense of time gets weird during comp, so I continued looking. Then "Oh! twelveseconds!" and I had to arm the timer and take off a little unprepared. Big win for me that I broke my streak of a disastrous first 2 solves, got a couple 27s which is close to my home average, and PB'ed single and average keeping my streak of all orange intact. Small loss on that final solve (botched E perm) because I was within easy striking distance of a sub 30 average. Can't recall what went afoul on the :38.


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## openseas (Sep 17, 2017)

pglewis said:


> Good day for me in Nashville, comp postmortem:
> 3bld: 10 min limit, got a 9:45 on my first attempt . After going 2/3 both Wed and Thu at the coffee shop I went 0/3 on Fri, didn't get a success Fri night while timing to see roughly where I was at, and not a single success practicing at the venue. It was very difficult, my concentration was seriously fighting me during memo, but peeking at the timer a couple times during memo reassured me I could still do it so I hung with it. I even had to lift the blindfold before making any turns to double check a couple edges one last time. I just DNS'ed the other two solves, I got what I was after and saw no reason to take up 15-20 more minutes of table time just to see if I could get one in the 6-8 range. I actually landed 6th on the merits of having a success with 11 people DNFing. Fifth place was a 4:13, so I wasn't likely to improve my position had I attempted.



Big congrats on your BLD success on your first ever official attempt - that is a rare & hard group to join (I failed but Jason got it)


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## pglewis (Sep 17, 2017)

openseas said:


> Big congrats on your BLD success on your first ever official attempt - that is a rare & hard group to join (I failed but Jason got it)



Thanks, my brain sure made me work for that one. 

At the end I was already seriously questioning my memo-- felt like I might have left out an edge pair-- then before I pulled the blindfold up I heard the judge quietly go "OOOhhhh!". I figured that signaled I was off by a twist or two but I realize now it was because I barely ducked the time limit lol. Luckily my execution was in good shape, relatively speaking. Not fast by any stretch but much more than my memo.


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## Jason Green (Sep 17, 2017)

pglewis said:


> Thanks, my brain sure made me work for that one.
> 
> At the end I was already seriously questioning my memo-- felt like I might have left out out an edge pair-- then before I pulled the blindfold up I heard the judge quietly go "OOOhhhh!". I figured that signaled I was off by a twist or two but I realize now it was because I barely ducked the time limit lol. Luckily my execution was in good shape, relatively speaking. Not fast by any stretch but much more than my memo.


It was really fun wasn't it!? I know with mine I tried to be pretty careful because I really wanted success the most. I didn't get tripped up on memo too bad that I remember, so I thought I had a good shot as I was finishing, but at the same time knew there was probably equal chance I missed something. I would describe it as feeling relief with a little bit of surprise maybe.


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## pglewis (Sep 17, 2017)

Jason Green said:


> It was really fun wasn't it!? I know with mine I tried to be pretty careful because I really wanted success the most. I didn't get tripped up on memo too bad that I remember, so I thought I had a good shot as I was finishing, but at the same time knew there was probably equal chance I missed something. I would describe it as feeling relief with a little bit of surprise maybe.



It sure was a big boost when I didn't see anything twisted, and it was responsible for me being a lot more relaxed during 3x3... but man was it a fight for me lol. I've already learned I'm very prone to brain hijack from previous comps and it took every technique I could think of to keep my head in it when my bld heat was getting close. Went outside and briskly did a couple laps up and down a small flight of steps to fight the adrenaline. Sang to myself and did whatever I could to put my mind on other stuff. Did some breathing and relaxation exercises in the competitor area while waiting. Even with all that it was tough but without it I would have gone down in flames. 

I was coming up with odd edges and even corners not knowing which was the culprit and the frustration was making it harder to think, but seeing I was a bit over 4 mins in allowed me to relax and track it down. Turned out to be a bad corner trace, I think I'll do a few days spamming 2bld soon since that's been too chronic.


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## mark49152 (Sep 17, 2017)

@pglewis: Congrats and nice job on your first official 3BLD!


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## pglewis (Sep 17, 2017)

Thanks a bunch, Mark. Looking forward to next year I'd like to work up to at least a 3 cube mbld official attempt and _maybe_ learn 4bld. With sighted solves, I've discovered I'm not very interested in anything besides 3x3 right now but 4bld might renew my interest in higher order cubes. I really had no idea I'd have such an interest in blindfold solving when I took this up (or that I even _could_ do it).


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## newtonbase (Sep 17, 2017)

pglewis said:


> Good day for me in Nashville, comp postmortem:
> 
> Pyraminx: I signed up but I care so little that I didn't practice any; I decided to forego it in favor of more practice on 3x3 and 3bld.
> 
> ...


Welcome to the blind club. Very jealous of your success at the first attempt. Took me 4 comps. (I've typed that so many times my keyboard suggests it for me!)
Any success at your next comp should be a PB.


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## pglewis (Sep 17, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> ... N perms turn up a lot when doing 2 look PLL. ...



Ah, I hadn't even thought of that, I'm sure the probabilities are calculated for 1 look PLL. Still, that was my mantra while waiting for my 3x3 solves yesterday: "no N-perms please!".


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## newtonbase (Sep 17, 2017)

pglewis said:


> Ah, I hadn't even thought of that, I'm sure the probabilities are calculated for 1 look PLL. Still, that was my mantra while waiting for my 3x3 solves yesterday: "no N-perms please!".


I used to get a lot of H and Z perms with 2 look but hardly see them now. They were some of the first ones I learned after A and U.


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## pglewis (Sep 17, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> I used to get a lot of H and Z perms with 2 look but hardly see them now. They were some of the first ones I learned after A and U.



Now that you've jogged my memory, same. I quickly got annoyed with 2-look PLL and moved on from adding H and Z to learning full PLL before I was even under a minute.


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## mark49152 (Sep 17, 2017)

pglewis said:


> Thanks a bunch, Mark. Looking forward to next year I'd like to work up to at least a 3 cube mbld official attempt and _maybe_ learn 4bld. With sighted solves, I've discovered I'm not very interested in anything besides 3x3 right now but 4bld might renew my interest in higher order cubes. I really had no idea I'd have such an interest in blindfold solving when I took this up (or that I even _could_ do it).


I remember at my first comp talking with a few people and saying I wasn't interested in BLD. Later in the day I watched it and that was it, I was hooked. It was watching Lorenzo Vigano Poli complete his 15/15 Italian NR that made me want to go straight home and learn it.

Regarding 4BLD and MBLD, just go for it .

I'm curious about what 2-look PLL you guys are talking about. When I did 2-look it was corners first (T or Y perm) then edges. I certainly wouldn't have chosen N instead of Y perm for an opposite swap. Or did you do edges first?


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## openseas (Sep 17, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> I'm curious about what 2-look PLL you guys are talking about. When I did 2-look it was corners first (T or Y perm) then edges. I certainly wouldn't have chosen N instead of Y perm for an opposite swap. Or did you do edges first?



When it comes to 2look PLL, mostly, Edges (U / H / Z or Y / T) and corners (A & E) but sequence doesn't matter. I think I did corners first back then since I immediately jumped to A perm.


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## openseas (Sep 17, 2017)

pglewis said:


> Thanks a bunch, Mark. Looking forward to next year I'd like to work up to at least a 3 cube mbld official attempt and _maybe_ learn 4bld. With sighted solves, I've discovered I'm not very interested in anything besides 3x3 right now but 4bld might renew my interest in higher order cubes. I really had no idea I'd have such an interest in blindfold solving when I took this up (or that I even _could_ do it).



MBLD is rather easy once you started 3BLD. I would recommend to go for at least 5 so that you can get US Nats qualification. (if you are interested in). On top of that, you're practicing Roman Rooms for MBLD which will help for big cube BLD eventually. 4BLD is roughly close to 3 x 3BLD in terms of memo. 4BLD has, 8 corner pieces, 24 midge pieces (~ 2x of 3BLD edges) and 24 centers (0 from 3BLD).


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## pglewis (Sep 17, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> I'm curious about what 2-look PLL you guys are talking about. When I did 2-look it was corners first (T or Y perm) then edges. I certainly wouldn't have chosen N instead of Y perm for an opposite swap. Or did you do edges first?



It seems like ages ago now and I moved to full PLL early so I had to go look up what I started with. I originally learned from here: https://solvethecube.com/speedcubing#step5

I started with the minimal there, I think corners first with Ab then edges with U perms so not technically a 2-look PLL system. It was fewer algs to learn early on but could turn into a 4 look PLL so I did pick up Y, H, and Z fairly quickly out of self defense and went straight for full PLL right after.


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## mark49152 (Sep 17, 2017)

openseas said:


> When it comes to 2look PLL, mostly, Edges (U / H / Z or Y / T) and corners (A & E) but sequence doesn't matter. I think I did corners first back then since I immediately jumped to A perm.


Sequence does matter in that whatever pieces you solve second, those algs must not mess up the first piece type you solved. Meaning more permutations/algs, and that's why edges first is the only reason I can think of why someone would end up forced to use N perms in 2-look PLL. I've never heard of doing 2-look edges first though. It seems a much worse idea.



openseas said:


> MBLD is rather easy once you started 3BLD. I would recommend to go for at least 5 so that you can get US Nats qualification. (if you are interested in). On top of that, you're practicing Roman Rooms for MBLD which will help for big cube BLD eventually. 4BLD is roughly close to 3 x 3BLD in terms of memo. 4BLD has, 8 corner pieces, 24 midge pieces (~ 2x of 3BLD edges) and 24 centers (0 from 3BLD).


I agree with shooting for more cubes. I got off to a slow start with MBLD because I rarely practised it, assuming my 3BLD improvements would just carry over. If I had practised it earlier I'd certainly have started competing at 6+ in order to use the full hour. Once you have a system that uses your memory reliably, it's not hard to add more cubes. The hard thing with adding cubes is fitting them into the time available, and that only really applies above 6 cubes. If you can do 10 min/cube for 2 or 3 you should have no problem using your full hour for 6 cubes. Just my 2 cents .

4BLD is a bit less memo than 3x 3BLD in practice. Grzegorz (@h2f) and myself have debated before but it's around 2.2-2.5x. The amount of extra memo is really a minor consideration in learning 4BLD though and it's a way more interesting and exciting challenge than a 3 cube MBLD. There's a lot more interesting stuff, like choosing an orientation (no fixed centres); learning a centres method; figuring out how to deal with equivalent centre pieces; parities of piece types are independent; there's an l slice as well as an r slice to complicate wings; etc. Technically 4BLD adds a lot of interest above 3BLD and makes a great challenge once you feel ready.


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## pglewis (Sep 18, 2017)

openseas said:


> ... I would recommend to go for at least 5 so that you can get US Nats qualification. ...





mark49152 said:


> I agree with shooting for more cubes. I got off to a slow start with MBLD because I rarely practised it, assuming my 3BLD improvements would just carry over. If I had practised it earlier I'd certainly have started competing at 6+ in order to use the full hour. ...



Interesting. It wouldn't have occurred to me that the next step after one was... SIX lol. I can see the logic with time management, though, since the ceiling remains at 10 mins/cube until beyond 6. 

For the journey method I suppose I'd have to build up six rooms. I've only skimmed the details on the technique and watched Noah's video on it, but haven't ever tried to put it into practice (for my 2/2 I just did what I do for a single blind but twice as long).


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## openseas (Sep 18, 2017)

pglewis said:


> For the journey method I suppose I'd have to build up six rooms. I've only skimmed the details on the technique and watched Noah's video on it, but haven't ever tried to put it into practice (for my 2/2 I just did what I do for a single blind but twice as long).



It's very normal - actually, once you getting faster in 3BLD, you wish you can get N x times per multiple BLD but in reality, it's much longer than Nx of your 3BLD time. More you try, you need to review more. For example, 10 cubes, 1-4 memo and review 1-4, 5-8 memo, and review 5-8, memo 9 and review 1-4 & 5-8 (or 1-8), then 9. After this, normal 3BLD for the last one (10th) - so, you'll see how many times you have to review which adds more time than normal BLD.

The advantage of MBLD is that (at least what I felt) you have less stress on time but more focus on accuracy and long term image (rooms). That helps for 3BLD as well since short term memory gets stronger and confident.

I tried MBLD couple of times per week, added cubes until I max out (by 1 hour limit) to set my time limit.

Downside of practicing MBLD, once you finish one session, you no longer have any will power or brain energy to do more BLD practice


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## h2f (Sep 18, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> Grzegorz (@h2f) and myself have debated before but it's around 2.2-2.5x. The amount of extra memo is really a minor consideration in learning 4BLD though and it's a way more interesting and exciting challenge than a 3 cube MBLD.



Yeah, it was the conclusion of our talk. I remember when I started 4bld it took me around 30 minuts to make 1st sighted solve. And I agree - it's more exciting challenge. In fact amount of information is around 3 cubes but you organize it in a different way than 3 cubes so it's a little bit easier. I think doing 4bld makes 3bld easier though when I'm around 1 minute now in 3bld a find both events to be different: 3bld is like a short distance run - let's say 100m. 4bld is longer - like 400 or 800 m in aethletics.


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## mark49152 (Sep 18, 2017)

h2f said:


> 3bld is like a short distance run - let's say 100m. 4bld is longer - like 400 or 800 m in aethletics.


Yeah that's a great analogy. And MBLD is a marathon. The longer the event the more it's about knowing and controlling your pace and gameplan.


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## Shaky Hands (Sep 19, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> If you can do 10 min/cube for 2 or 3 you should have no problem using your full hour for 6 cubes. Just my 2 cents .



There's a logic to this that I hadn't realised before. Thanks.

If I get my MBLD target at this weekend's competition, I will up my MBLD ambitions in time for the November comp.


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## mafergut (Sep 19, 2017)

Oh my! Also coming in the mail now a Dayan Tangram Extreme, a Penrose 3x3 from Z Cube, a Calvin Hexaminx and a XingHen M 2x2. Being ill is very bad news for my wallet because I buy cubes like they were pills to get better.


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## JohnnyReggae (Sep 19, 2017)

Another package collected from the local post office today after a 2 month wait. Just something interesting for me to try really.

4 cubes in all. 2 x 50mm MF3rs a black and a stickerless. A 57mm Cyclone Boys FeiTeng 4x4, and the new QiYi QiHeng S Megaminx.

I have a 50mm Dayan and wanted to see how the mini MF3rs compares as some people have given it good reviews. The stickerless out of the box is amazing for the price and outperforms my setup Dayan that has a good number of solves on it. The black is not as good as the stickerless and seems to catch more. Going to play with the tensions a little. But one of the first things I'm going to do with both is put magnets in. This little mini is crying for some magnets and I think it will be even better so I'm excited to do it.

The Cyclone Boys FeiTeng is also surprising. While not on the same level as my Yuxin or WuQue, I can see it has a lot of potential and is also going to get magnets fitted soon. Out the box solves have gone quite nicely, and for the price point my initial thoughts are is that it is a great cube.

Lastly the Megaminx. I'm not very good with Megaminx with my best time around the 4:30 mark. I still use a beginners LL method which involves spamming Sune and Anti-Sune. Not very efficient. I have a YJ YuHu which just catches a lot and I find frustrating to solve on, so I don't do much Megaminx. Hoping to change that with a better one. Out of the box I can feel it's a lot better than the YuHu so I'm looking forward to spending some time with it now.


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## mark49152 (Sep 19, 2017)

Shaky Hands said:


> There's a logic to this that I hadn't realised before. Thanks.
> 
> If I get my MBLD target at this weekend's competition, I will up my MBLD ambitions in time for the November comp.


Good luck mate .

There is a caveat/assumption to my assertion though, which is that you have a system where time/cube isn't much worse than linear. For example, if after every cube you are going back and reviewing every previous cube, you're going to be doing loads of reviews and that takes time. Maybe 15+ for 6 cubes and growing rapidly as you add more cubes. If you have that problem, the best solution is to fix your system now and avoid those unnecessary reviews. Any non-linear system will just make it way harder to progress.


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## muchacho (Sep 19, 2017)

Today there was an unofficial comp in my city, I finished second. I got a 20.21 in the first round and a bit less than 24 seconds in the final round (first solve was a DNF due to me not used to using a timer, then a 31 seconds solve followed by a 21, 18 and 18).

This was my fastest solve (16.90):


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## pglewis (Sep 19, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> ... There is a caveat/assumption to my assertion though, which is that you have a system where time/cube isn't much worse than linear. For example, if after every cube you are going back and reviewing every previous cube, you're going to be doing loads of reviews and that takes time. Maybe 15+ for 6 cubes and growing rapidly as you add more cubes. ...



This is what leads me to think I might enjoy mbld even more than 3bld. I tend to memo so carefully that it sticks which doesn't lend itself to speed but I don't have to review much or at all unless I know there's a mistake.

I see the wisdom of "memo faster, review more" that you shared in the past for 3bld and I expect that'll start happening more with practice/confidence, but to this point I still memo 3bld as if I need to retain it for 10 mins or more (because initially I did).

I'm curious to get a high-level idea of how you utilize rooms for mbld. I understand the general concept but whatever you're specifically doing is sure working for you!


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## openseas (Sep 19, 2017)

pglewis said:


> This is what leads me to think I might enjoy mbld even more than 3bld. I tend to memo so carefully that it sticks which doesn't lend itself to speed but I don't have to review much or at all unless I know there's a mistake.
> 
> I see the wisdom of "memo faster, review more" that you shared in the past for 3bld and I expect that'll start happening more with practice/confidence, but to this point I still memo 3bld as if I need to retain it for 10 mins or more (because initially I did).




If you think about it, it's not just memo timing what you're referring to memo. Most cases, 10+ & 7+ letters, making images out of ~20 letters are not that time consuming. On top of that, if you keep practicing, you're running into similar letter pairs so often, you don't need to make up new images any more (not completely but more or less). There are "only" 400+ letter pairs, after all. So, at your stage, the most time consuming part, I guess, is actual tracing rather than memo.

And for 3BLD, the wisdom is just memo faster not so much of review. Review more part is for MBLD only. The only way to push your memo time and make it quick and faster is not reviewing what you just memorized.




pglewis said:


> I'm curious to get a high-level idea of how you utilize rooms for mbld. I understand the general concept but whatever you're specifically doing is sure working for you!



You make images based on objects in your room. For 10 cube MBLD, I use 20 different places in my home, assigning each room/place to one edge or corner of each cube. And I make my rule to go around those places in a sequence I always follow. Start from my study shelf, desk, closet, walk to living room shelf, window seat, and so on. This sequence is always the same. 

And, for example, my first letter sequence is like: TR - SC - MY - PB - EL. 
And I'm trying to link this cube (edge pieces) to my study shelf. There is a TRophy from last Summer Comp where I've got MY PB of ELeven two.(I've never been a podium - so obviously, this is a make-up  ). You build images of several cubes like this, and each cube (edges and corners) to a different rooms and objects. 

When you finish your first cube, then move to the next room/place, and use the image you built up from there to recall what letter sequence was.

Not sure whether it makes sense to you, but this is at least how I do multi.


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## h2f (Sep 19, 2017)

muchacho said:


> oday there was an unofficial comp in my city, I finished second.




Congrats!


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## mark49152 (Sep 19, 2017)

pglewis said:


> I see the wisdom of "memo faster, review more" that you shared in the past for 3bld ...
> 
> I'm curious to get a high-level idea of how you utilize rooms for mbld. I understand the general concept but whatever you're specifically doing is sure working for you!


Memo faster, review more is certainly advice for MBLD not 3BLD. For 3BLD it's bad to review at all. 

I don't think I do anything special with rooms. As Jae described, I just have fixed locations in my house and I work through them putting a scene in each. Definitely it's important to have instant images for each pair so you don't waste time thinking them up, or have to settle for poor images. So an image list is a good idea. Then it's important to anticipate mistakes and address that in your scene, for example, to avoid errors like recalling pairs in the wrong order. A good system for flips and twists is important too.


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## pglewis (Sep 19, 2017)

openseas said:


> And for 3BLD, the wisdom is just memo faster not so much of review. Review more part is for MBLD only. The only way to push your memo time and make it quick and faster is not reviewing what you just memorized.





mark49152 said:


> Memo faster, review more is certainly advice for MBLD not 3BLD.



I wasn't quite clear that this was in the context of pushing my current memo for speed:



mark49152 said:


> Remember that repetition is the most powerful way to get memo to stick, much more so than going slowly. Try this: scan your edges or corners, whichever you do first, to the point where you have pictured an image scene, but do not dwell on it trying to "force" it into memory. Just move on, even if you know you will immediately forget it. That's OK. Now memo the other piece type the same way. Then come back to the first set. Try to remember it, but if you can't, don't waste time racking your brains, just immediately memo it again - which is helpful anyway because you can check you scanned the cube right. Then move on again. Repeat until the memo has stuck, but it's important to alternate between piece types. Usually it'll stick by the third iteration and you'll be surprised how strong it is. You'll probably still remember it the next day .
> 
> TL;DR: three quick, cursory memo iterations are more effective than one slow, careful memo.



Keeping in mind that I don't normally return to edges after memoing them (I currently start with edges) unless I run into an odd/even mismatch or some other indication that something is afoul.


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## mark49152 (Sep 19, 2017)

pglewis said:


> I wasn't quite clear that this was in the context of pushing my current memo for speed:


Got you. My recent comment should have had "in the long run" added . Obviously there's no time for reviews in a 10 second memo, but if you're at the stage where you're struggling to get memo to stick at all, using more reviews will help.


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## Jason Green (Sep 19, 2017)

muchacho said:


> Today there was an unofficial comp in my city, I finished second. I got a 20.21 in the first round and a bit less than 24 seconds in the final round (first solve was a DNF due to me not used to using a timer, then a 31 seconds solve followed by a 21, 18 and 18).
> 
> This was my fastest solve (16.90):


Nice job congrats! It seems so strange to have an unofficial comp on the street.  How do you hear about them?


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## megagoune (Sep 19, 2017)

I received some new stuff 
 
The new YueXiao Pro, the redi cube, and finally I got myself a timer.

The YueXiao seems pretty nice, but does not quite feel like the old YueXiao. These days, I almost use exclusively my GTS2M, and I think I am relying a lot on the magnets. But no fear! I also bought a bunch of magnets . I will magnetize the YueXiao and my 57mm 4x4.

Using the timer is cool, next step is to connect it to my computer, and, as a week-end project with the kids, to build a timer display with an Arduino.


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## pglewis (Sep 19, 2017)

openseas said:


> There are "only" 400+ letter pairs, after all. So, at your stage, the most time consuming part, I guess, is actual tracing rather than memo.



576 letter pairs (including double letters) but who's counting? Oh wait, that'd be me . I have a spreadsheet where I'm collecting my letter pair images and it's definitely more than half filled-out, maybe even as much as two thirds. I actually started learning 3bld back in Jan but I've had a handful of breaks in practice so it has been two steps forward, one step back. As a result, my collected image list is much farther along than I am. 

Tracing used to be the biggest bottleneck but that continues to improve in proportion with practice. Where my weird brain gets stumped is assigning good images to my pairs quickly. I think it's related to a family of things I'm not particularly good at like Boggle, crossword puzzles, hangman, Scrabble, Wheel of Fortune, etc. If I were able to rely on my sheet and didn't hit any empty cells I'd wager I'm twice as fast... it's that bad. 

Thus the methodical attention to my list. I try to remember pairs that gave me trouble so I can look them up later and if I don't have anything at least mark them, if not fill them in right away. I'm not just collecting one or two images when I fill in a pair either, I put down as many memorable people and objects as possible and maybe an action/description or two if I'm lucky, for flexibility. Still just a matter of practice to slowly transfer those to the grey matter but it's my primary speed focus because it is certainly not progressing as quickly as tracing faster is.


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## mark49152 (Sep 19, 2017)

@pglewis , check out Anki if you haven't already. It's great for learning letter pairs. I put just a subset of "hard" ones in and refresh every so often depending on what pairs I need to change.


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## openseas (Sep 19, 2017)

pglewis said:


> 576 letter pairs (including double letters) but who's counting? Oh wait, that'd be me .



Haha, I believe it is 440. 11 edge pieces (flip) * 10 edge pieces (flip) = 4*11*10=440 (You don't memo buffer piece, so take that out). Corner will be 378 but since less than edges, maximum 440.


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## muchacho (Sep 19, 2017)

Jason Green said:


> Nice job congrats! It seems so strange to have an unofficial comp on the street.  How do you hear about them?


Thanks, it's the third year that it's being organized (I tried to help a bit) at this time of the year (holidays here). It was not perfect but it was fun, it even had prizes and a raffle with some cubes. I think there were 22 competitors.


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## pglewis (Sep 19, 2017)

I'm surprised you guys aren't doing anything more fancy with journey method... not even random access to a particular cube by number? I know I either saw a vid or read one method that did have that advantage of immediately accessing say, #27 on demand but I can't recall the trick used for it. 



mark49152 said:


> check out Anki if you haven't already. It's great for learning letter pairs.



I'd never even heard of it but I'll definitely be checking it out, looks perfect for me. 



openseas said:


> Haha, I believe it is 440. 11 edge pieces (flip) * 10 edge pieces (flip) = 4*11*10=440 (You don't memo buffer piece, so take that out). Corner will be 378 but since less than edges, maximum 440.



I'm just figuring straight 24*24 for every letter combination A-X. K won't ever show up for edges for me with speffz/M2 but will appear for corners, so I do still need to fill in the cells for it. My M2/OP buffer spots are the thinnest in the sheet since they don't turn up as much. I wouldn't technically have to fill-in double letters like DD, but I crave consistency and use double letters in place of single when there's parity. Rather than a dangling 'D' when the majority of my images are based on pairs, I memo Donald Duck and still know there's parity.


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## mark49152 (Sep 19, 2017)

pglewis said:


> I'm surprised you guys aren't doing anything more fancy with journey method... not even random access to a particular cube by number? I know I either saw a vid or read one method that did have that advantage of immediately accessing say, #27 on demand but I can't recall the trick used for it.


I can tell you right now that cube #27 is at the top of the stairwell leading to the apartment I moved out of in 2013. Not particularly useful to me though as I don't solve in random order .

How do I know this? It's not a trick, just arithmetic. I use my current house for the first 16 cubes and I have 3 additional houses holding 8 cubes each. So #27 would be 3rd cube in the 3rd house.


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## Jason Green (Sep 20, 2017)

So far I like coming up with images on the fly. I don't recall if it was Noah or some other video that said they found that approach more powerful, and I agree. Obviously some of them are starting to stick already, but I don't plan to pre-make an image list. Maybe I'll change my mind later if I can't improve. My practice time is pretty sparse which means I'm improving slowly but also pretty easily it seems. Did a few solves last night and averaging closer to 4 minutes now.


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## mark49152 (Sep 20, 2017)

Jason Green said:


> So far I like coming up with images on the fly. I don't recall if it was Noah or some other video that said they found that approach more powerful, and I agree.


It's only more powerful until you get stuck wasting time trying to think of an image for some obscure pair (which used to happen to me lots). Ultimately after much practice you arrive at the same place either way - the ability to instantly visualise any pair as an image. Making a list is really just a way to try to get there quicker by making sure you have the tough pairs covered.


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## Jason Green (Sep 20, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> It's only more powerful until you get stuck wasting time trying to think of an image for some obscure pair (which used to happen to me lots). Ultimately after much practice you arrive at the same place either way - the ability to instantly visualise any pair as an image. Making a list is really just a way to try to get there quicker by making sure you have the tough pairs covered.


That's true and I guess I've kind of very informally started a list in my head with about two pairs on it that give me trouble.  I'm still not sure I like my images though. JH troubles me. I always think first of John Q Hammons a wealthy man with lots of stuff named for him back home. Or John Hopkins, jumping hyena, jump high. But not real crazy about them. I may stick with the hyena for now...


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## One Wheel (Sep 20, 2017)

Jason Green said:


> That's true and I guess I've kind of very informally started a list in my head with about two pairs on it that give me trouble.  I'm still not sure I like my images though. JH troubles me. I always think first of John Q Hammons a wealthy man with lots of stuff named for him back home. Or John Hopkins, jumping hyena, jump high. But not real crazy about them. I may stick with the hyena for now...



Juicy hamburger or juggling heffalumps? I rather like heffalumps.


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## pglewis (Sep 20, 2017)

Jason Green said:


> So far I like coming up with images on the fly. I don't recall if it was Noah or some other video that said they found that approach more powerful, and I agree.



I envy you . I think a lot of people do well just off the cuff and sometime I can, but too often I blank out too long or the image I come up with isn't very vivid and doesn't stick. 



Jason Green said:


> JH troubles me.



I have: Jimi Hendrix, Jabba the Hutt, Jack of Hearts, Jackhammer


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## Jason Green (Sep 20, 2017)

One Wheel said:


> Juicy hamburger or juggling heffalumps? I rather like heffalumps.





pglewis said:


> I envy you . I think a lot of people do well just off the cuff and sometime I can, but too often I blank out too long or the image I come up with isn't very vivid and doesn't stick.
> 
> 
> 
> I have: Jimi Hendrix, Jabba the Hutt, Jack of Hearts, Jackhammer


Thanks guys those are some great ones I can't believe I didn't think of some. I mean Jabba the Hutt should've been automatic for me. I have the problem of not getting very vivid images a lot but they're usually good enough to stick, at least until I do multi.


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## h2f (Sep 20, 2017)

Everyone has its own system. 


openseas said:


> Haha, I believe it is 440. 11 edge pieces (flip) * 10 edge pieces (flip) = 4*11*10=440 (You don't memo buffer piece, so take that out). Corner will be 378 but since less than edges, maximum 440.



My list: 23 x 23 = 529 but in fact I use only 23x22 = 506 because I dont use double letters. In 3bld it's only 22*20 = 440.


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## mark49152 (Sep 20, 2017)

Jason Green said:


> Thanks guys those are some great ones I can't believe I didn't think of some. I mean Jabba the Hutt should've been automatic for me. I have the problem of not getting very vivid images a lot but they're usually good enough to stick, at least until I do multi.


I use Jabba the Hutt too. And you can probably guess what I use for JA, DV, EW and WK .

Other advantages to a list, or at least a planned set of images, are vividness and unambiguity. Often when trying to come up with images on the fly I would pick the most obvious word for the letters but find the image wasn't great. Like next for NX. Can you visualise that clearly in a way that you would certainly recall it as next? What you end up doing is relying on some other part of memory as well as visual, and remembering partly as a sentence. That might be OK for 3BLD but is not as reliable or fast for MBLD IMHO.

Or, I'd recall an image of a cat miaowing but that could have been either CT or MW (miaow). It's hard to visualise a miaow without a cat. Or maybe I'd have characters that were too similar, like I once spoiled an attempt because Jerry Springer looks a bit like Quincy MD. And another one because I didn't clearly enough visualise a jug as distinct from a jar.

Eliminating all these weaknesses to get to a distinct and vivid set of images is an incremental process that takes a long time. Mine is not bad now but it's still in progress.


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## pglewis (Sep 20, 2017)

One last note on the whole images discussion is I often use a shortcut for pairs starting with X or Q: eXcited or Quiet/Quick/Quarrelsome animals. XL = excited lemur.


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## NewbieCuber (Sep 20, 2017)

mafergut said:


> @muchacho, a honey copter? Is that the redi cube with heart shaped edges?
> 
> Look what I got today in the mail from Los Mundos de Rubik:
> 
> View attachment 8414



Those are PRETTY!


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## mark49152 (Sep 20, 2017)

pglewis said:


> One last note on the whole images discussion is I often use a shortcut for pairs starting with X or Q: eXcited or Quiet/Quick/Quarrelsome animals. XL = excited lemur.


Sounds are good too, inherited from audio memo. Q = sh, X = sk, H = th. So XL = skull, QL = shell, etc. 

I also use X = dead sometimes. Like XK = dead koala.


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## pglewis (Sep 20, 2017)

I'll also fall back to dead animals sometimes for variety. If I'm doing a lot of practice X can turn up as an odd letter often and I'll occasionally run into slight confusion with previous memos.


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## pglewis (Sep 20, 2017)

Also: I had no idea who Owen Quinn was until I started blindsolving. It's fun _and_ informative!


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## mark49152 (Sep 20, 2017)

I have no idea who Owen Quinn is and so I doubt he would make a vivid image for me. After much struggling, my image for OQ is a monocle


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## pglewis (Sep 20, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> I have no idea who Owen Quinn is and so I doubt he would make a vivid image for me. After much struggling, my image for OQ is a monocle



As I discovered, he's the guy that jumped off one of the WTC towers with a parachute in the mid 70s. It's such a difficult pair that I decided it was worth learning his name. His claim to fame makes it easy to visualize otherwise.


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## newtonbase (Sep 21, 2017)

I'll sometimes click on names on peoplebyinitials.com just to see if they are interesting enough to remember. Owen Quinn looks a good one.
Like @mark49152 I carry over some from audio. X is SH for me so XL is shell. Q is TH which is still quite tricky.


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## JohnnyReggae (Sep 21, 2017)

The MoFang JiaoShi Mini 3x3 (50mm) is simply an amazing cube. I am totally blown away at how well it performs, and all of this for the price point of $2.85.

I've put magnets into it already using 4x2mm N35 magnets. They are a nice feel for the cube and have given it some stability. Performance on the mini is close to my GTS2. Corner cutting is not quite there, but for $3 it's simply amazing really. I've had quite a few sub-15's with it already, which I count as great solves even with a full size cube.

I don't think it will replace my GTS2 but it is an awesome cube to carry around without sacrificing good performance. I have both the stickerless and black, and the stickerless is definitely better. The turning on the black is bumpy, whereas with the stickerless it's quite smooth.

I cannot recommend this cube enough 

(Pictured here next to my GTS2)


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## pglewis (Sep 21, 2017)

JohnnyReggae said:


> The MoFang JiaoShi Mini 3x3 (50mm) is simply an amazing cube. I am totally blown away at how well it performs, and all of this for the price point of $2.85.



I'm also interested in trying the MF3RS2. It's my understanding they've added a collar around the centers like the GTS2, which I'm guessing would make it even more stable than the last iteration. 

I'm sure it's not gonna be at the price point of the mini though, what a bargain.


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## NewbieCuber (Sep 21, 2017)

I just have to laugh at my goal of solving a 3x3 in sub one minute. (At least I'm laughing instead of getting frustrated)

My last 6 solves:

1:06.62 Not bad
1:01.56 Pretty good
1:05.72 Still, not too bad
1:02.14 Getting closer
0:56.47 Yes! It can be done 
1:25.72 WHAT THE HECK! 

When I started this journey about 3 or 4 months ago a cuber I know said that they practice solving tens of thousands of times. "Tens of thousands!?" I thought? Oh My Gosh. But , now, it's starting to make sense.

Gotta go, must practice.


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## newtonbase (Sep 21, 2017)

NewbieCuber said:


> I just have to laugh at my goal of solving a 3x3 in sub one minute. (At least I'm laughing instead of getting frustrated)
> 
> My last 6 solves:
> 
> ...


You'll be sub 1 before you know it.


----------



## pglewis (Sep 21, 2017)

NewbieCuber said:


> I just have to laugh at my goal of solving a 3x3 in sub one minute. (At least I'm laughing instead of getting frustrated)
> 
> My last 6 solves:
> 
> ...



Yeah, it won't be all that long before 59s are mistake solves for ya. 

I'm curious what your best single is so far. From those times you should have the potential for a low 40 if the planets align just right: relatively quick cross, easy F2L pairs that you spot a little faster than normal, and a friendly 1 or 2 look last layer with algs you know. 

It might be useful to record a couple of average solves. You don't ever have to share them and you can probably just delete them after a couple quick views, but it'll show you just how much time is spent in pauses. Do an informal timing of how long you spend not turning-- not just the pauses between the F2L pairs but between every step-- and you'll see how much easy time there is to shave.


----------



## NewbieCuber (Sep 21, 2017)

pglewis said:


> Yeah, it won't be all that long before 59s are mistake solves for ya.
> 
> I'm curious what your best single is so far. From those times you should have the potential for a low 40 if the planets align just right: relatively quick cross, easy F2L pairs that you spot a little faster than normal, and a friendly 1 or 2 look last layer with algs you know.
> 
> It might be useful to record a couple of average solves. You don't ever have to share them and you can probably just delete them after a couple quick views, but it'll show you just how much time is spent in pauses. Do an informal timing of how long you spend not turning-- not just the pauses between the F2L pairs but between every step-- and you'll see how much easy time there is to shave.



My best single solve so far is 51.46. I;m seeing my biggest improvement in my cross and F2L. I'm quite often over 45 to 50 seconds before I start OLL and PLL. So those first 2 steps are where I'm focusing.


----------



## Jason Green (Sep 22, 2017)

JohnnyReggae said:


> The MoFang JiaoShi Mini 3x3 (50mm) is simply an amazing cube. I am totally blown away at how well it performs, and all of this for the price point of $2.85.
> 
> I've put magnets into it already using 4x2mm N35 magnets. They are a nice feel for the cube and have given it some stability. Performance on the mini is close to my GTS2. Corner cutting is not quite there, but for $3 it's simply amazing really. I've had quite a few sub-15's with it already, which I count as great solves even with a full size cube.
> 
> ...


It might be a good one for OH for me. I was thinking about getting the mini valk.


----------



## pglewis (Sep 22, 2017)

Good day for PBs, ducked 26 in an Ao12 and crushed my 3bld PB with a 4:07 (2:20/1:47). Two solved corners didn't hurt: R2 B2 U B2 D' L2 D U2 B2 U' B' R2 U R' B' D L D' U2 R2 F' Rw2 Uw2


----------



## JohnnyReggae (Sep 22, 2017)

pglewis said:


> I'm also interested in trying the MF3RS2. It's my understanding they've added a collar around the centers like the GTS2, which I'm guessing would make it even more stable than the last iteration.
> 
> I'm sure it's not gonna be at the price point of the mini though, what a bargain.


It seems the budget cubes are starting to align with their more expensive counterparts. I'd be interested to try the MFRS2 myself just because I'm so impressed with the mini.



Jason Green said:


> It might be a good one for OH for me. I was thinking about getting the mini valk.


I've ordered a mini Valk, but I'm not sure it will fit that well with OH. The 50mm is quite small for OH even though I started OH with a 50mm Dayan. Very keen to see the performance on the mini Valk though.


----------



## NewbieCuber (Sep 22, 2017)

pglewis said:


> I'm also interested in trying the MF3RS2. It's my understanding they've added a collar around the centers like the GTS2, which I'm guessing would make it even more stable than the last iteration.
> 
> I'm sure it's not gonna be at the price point of the mini though, what a bargain.



I'm very interested in the MF3RS2. I'm amazed at how good the MF3RS is. In fact, I keep bouncing between my MF3RS and my Thunderclap as my main cube. With proper tensioning and lube the MF3RS is buttery smooth and much quieter than the Thunderclap. But I do get pops on occasion and the new V2 is suppose to fix a lot of that.


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## pglewis (Sep 22, 2017)

That 1:47 execution could have been a bit faster as well. I'm adding some of the advanced M2 techniques, experimenting with x' rotations instead of B face turns (I think I may permanently switch) and the I/S shortcuts when paired with non M-slice targets (I was _very_ careful with that SO pair). I've been using the N/H wide turns from the start and just recently switched to the M' U alg for Q.


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## pglewis (Sep 22, 2017)

Sorry for all the post spamming but it has been an exciting couple of days for me. Just landed an 18.97 full step, square/H-Perm. Only my 5th sub 20, and thee of the others are 19s, but it's feeling like there's a bunch more coming.


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## Zerksies (Sep 23, 2017)

I was just at my first competition in 10 years and I could been a father to all these kids


----------



## newtonbase (Sep 23, 2017)

pglewis said:


> That 1:47 execution could have been a bit faster as well. I'm adding some of the advanced M2 techniques, experimenting with x' rotations instead of B face turns (I think I may permanently switch) and the I/S shortcuts when paired with non M-slice targets (I was _very_ careful with that SO pair). I've been using the N/H wide turns from the start and just recently switched to the M' U alg for Q.


You are making good progress. M2 has so much potential for adding in more shortcuts and simple comms. The latest I've added is DW and BW and I'm working on OG and VX.


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## pglewis (Sep 23, 2017)

Zerksies said:


> I was just at my first competition in 10 years and I could been a father to all these kids



Yes, but your grocery bill would be enormous!


----------



## newtonbase (Sep 23, 2017)

Congratulations to @mark49152 for his first gold medal. 14/16 in MBLD with time to spare.


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## pglewis (Sep 23, 2017)

Big congrats, @mark49152! I also saw Andy made 2nd round of 4x4 in a quick peek at cube comps.


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## mark49152 (Sep 23, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> Congratulations to @mark49152 for his first gold medal. 14/16 in MBLD with time to spare.





pglewis said:


> Big congrats, @mark49152!


Thanks guys!

I was happy with that. The gold is nice, and although it's not a PB, it feels like good progress. My time keeping was good and I even had time for an extra review. And two mistakes is not a disaster. I'm comfortable at that level for now, and fingers crossed I will not slip up next time 

It's exciting to see MBLD getting more competitive in the UK. Today we had Chris Morris, Harry Savage, Steven Kearns and Oliver Wheat all attempting 10+ cubes for the first time. Along with Callum, Ben Ridley, Bertie and me, that's a pretty competitive field all at similar level (10-19). I almost wish I was a spectator instead 

In other comp news, I also entered 7x7 as a long shot to keep my comp PB streak alive, and scraped under the hard cut by under 3 seconds for my first official 7x7 result. Phew  That streak was odds-on to be finished considering I've only ever done about five 7x7 solves and today's was overall PB by about a minute.

Nice to catch up with Andy and the UK crew, as always. I could only make it for one day this comp, and am on my way home now. Good luck Andy tomorrow!


----------



## newtonbase (Sep 23, 2017)

pglewis said:


> Big congrats, @mark49152! I also saw Andy made 2nd round of 4x4 in a quick peek at cube comps.


He got a lot of PBs.


----------



## mafergut (Sep 23, 2017)

WoW @mark49152 that's impressive accuracy! Congratulations on the gold medal. A pity it was not PB. Didn't you just get the same result in Worlds? So, was this slower than that or what?


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## h2f (Sep 23, 2017)

Congrats Mark, @mark49152


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## newtonbase (Sep 23, 2017)

mafergut said:


> WoW @mark49152 that's impressive accuracy! Congratulations on the gold medal. A pity it was not PB. Didn't you just get the same result in Worlds? So, was this slower than that or what?


World's was 14/14 but slower.


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## mark49152 (Sep 23, 2017)

mafergut said:


> WoW @mark49152 that's impressive accuracy! Congratulations on the gold medal. A pity it was not PB. Didn't you just get the same result in Worlds? So, was this slower than that or what?


At Worlds I did 14 in 58 something, then 16 in just over an hour - I hit the time limit just before the last cube so probably would have been 61-62. So 16 in 56 mins today is significantly faster. Also my memo today was as strong as the 14/14 whereas the 16 attempt at Worlds was a bit rushed and unreliable 



h2f said:


> Congrats Mark, @mark49152


Thanks Grzegorz!


----------



## Jason Green (Sep 24, 2017)

Awesome job @mark49152! I know we've discussed in the past but I wonder how many over 40 podiums there have been? Maybe we could track them on the over 40s rankings?


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## mark49152 (Sep 24, 2017)

Jason Green said:


> Awesome job @mark49152! I know we've discussed in the past but I wonder how many over 40 podiums there have been? Maybe we could track them on the over 40s rankings?


Thanks Jason. The older pioneers like Mike, Mats, Francois and Ron have lots of podiums. Francois had 108 golds. I dont know how many were won in their 40s though.


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## openseas (Sep 24, 2017)

Wow, congrats @mark49152 !!! Great job!!!


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## pglewis (Sep 24, 2017)

mafergut said:


> WoW @mark49152 that's impressive accuracy! Congratulations on the gold medal. A pity it was not PB. Didn't you just get the same result in Worlds? So, was this slower than that or what?



His best at World's was a 14/14 which is scored 14; 14/16 is officially scored as 12 since you subtract the unsolved puzzles from the successes. This provides a strong incentive not to over-bid-- attempting 40 quickly in the hopes of landing 20-- and shifts the focus of the event to a combination of accuracy and time management. 

Unofficially, however, this has to _feel_ like a PB, knowing time management is what @mark49152 has been working on. With 4 mins to spare I s'pose we can expect a 17 or 18 attempt next time?


----------



## pglewis (Sep 24, 2017)

Jason Green said:


> It was very motivating to me for 3x3 to help me pursue sub 20. Not just knowing how fast others did it but that it was attainable. I guess a follow up would be, what do you consider the "sub 20 equivalent" for blind?



Dredging this up because I thought of another quick and dirty metric that might be used: comparing WR 3x3 single with 3-bld. Roughly rounding for "ballpark" and easier math, lets say that's 5 and 20 respectively. :20 on 3x3 would be 4x the WR, so that would equate to about 1:20 for 3-bld. 1:00 might roughly equate to 15 for 3x3.

Using that rough metric, my PB near 4 mins would be vaguely equivalent to 1 min sighted. Just a ratio of 4:1 as @h2f originally suggested.


----------



## Mike Hughey (Sep 24, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> Thanks Jason. The older pioneers like Mike, Mats, Francois and Ron have lots of podiums. Francois had 108 golds. I dont know how many were won in their 40s though.


I know Mats and I were both over 40 when we went to our first competition. Mats was (well) over 50.


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## mark49152 (Sep 24, 2017)

pglewis said:


> Unofficially, however, this has to _feel_ like a PB, knowing time management is what @mark49152 has been working on. With 4 mins to spare I s'pose we can expect a 17 or 18 attempt next time?


Yeah as I said above, it feels like progress. I'm not ready to go above 16 yet though.


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## newtonbase (Sep 24, 2017)

I only really practice 3BLD but I'm still 4x my 3x3 best. Maybe I'm practicing the wrong event.


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## mark49152 (Sep 24, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> I only really practice 3BLD but I'm still 4x my 3x3 best. Maybe I'm practicing the wrong event.


What do you mean? Your PB 3BLD single is 4x your PB 3x3 single?


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## newtonbase (Sep 24, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> What do you mean? Your PB 3BLD single is 4x your PB 3x3 single?


Roughly, yes.


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## mark49152 (Sep 24, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> Roughly, yes.


That doesn't sound too crazy. Mine are also about 3.5x to 4x. How's your BLD going?


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## newtonbase (Sep 24, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> That doesn't sound too crazy. Mine are also about 3.5x to 4x. How's your BLD going?


I'm improving but I'm very inconsistent. Over 2 mins annoys me and it it takes sub 1:40 to raise a smile. The other day I got a 1:12 DNF by a single move on a setup which would have been a 10s PB. Also got a 1:32 success followed by 2 sub 1:30 close DNFs. Just need to have a decent comp.

Edit: Also, I am using the occasional corner comm in timed solves and can do full untmed solves with nothing else but I tend avoid any with more than 1 setup move. They cause errors.


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## mark49152 (Sep 24, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> I'm improving but I'm very inconsistent. Over 2 mins annoys me and it it takes sub 1:40 to raise a smile. The other day I got a 1:12 DNF by a single move on a setup which would have been a 10s PB. Also got a 1:32 success followed by 2 sub 1:30 close DNFs. Just need to have a decent comp.


Yeah the next time you get a success at comp, that official PB will be smashed for sure. It's just a question of when, not if.

Looking at the final results from Guildford it seems Andy pretty much cleaned up. The BLD events were the only ones he didn't get a PB in. Nice haul, congrats Andy!


----------



## newtonbase (Sep 24, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> Yeah the next time you get a success at comp, that official PB will be smashed for sure. It's just a question of when, not if.
> 
> Looking at the final results from Guildford it seems Andy pretty much cleaned up. The BLD events were the only ones he didn't get a PB in. Nice haul, congrats Andy!


Any solve slower than my official PB would kill me. I'd much rather DNF.
Andy needs to slow down. He's getting far too good. Maybe I'll send my kids to him for a visit while I practice. Should break his stride. 
What happened in your blind events @Shaky Hands? What did you try in MBLD?


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## Shaky Hands (Sep 24, 2017)

Thanks @mark49152. Yes it was a really successful competition for me. When I manage to PB in events like one-handed that I don't practice at all, I know things are falling into place. I really enjoyed the event selection at this comp too. Happy to have been there and also to witness the first time that a World Record has been gained by someone in the UK since I started going to comps.

@newtonbase - I haven't done babysitting since the 1990s and would suggest you find someone sober and responsible!  In MBLD I attempted 3/3 and got 1/3. The 1st cube was correct; the 2nd cube was out by 1 or 2 corners; the 3rd was vomit. In 3BLD, first attempt the scramble was actually really good for me but I realised I'd messed up memo somewhere as the number of targets didn't match either odd or even; so I quit that solve. On the 2nd attempt my edges were good, but my corners weren't. BLD stuff will come together a bit more for me I'm sure. I've had a small number of solves sub-3m at home and I know if I dedicate some time to it as I did immediately before Peterborough Open, that I can improve. Trouble is I just love solving 5x5 and bigger cubes and that hogs a lot of my cubing time.


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## newtonbase (Sep 24, 2017)

Shaky Hands said:


> I haven't done babysitting since the 1990s and would suggest you find someone sober and responsible!



They know little of sober and responsible. 



Shaky Hands said:


> I know if I dedicate some time to it as I did immediately before Peterborough Open, that I can improve. Trouble is I just love solving 5x5 and bigger cubes and that hogs a lot of my cubing time.


It doesn't take much to get your success rate up. Just do a couple of solves every day. Learning new stuff and getting faster is what I find much harder.


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## openseas (Sep 24, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> I only really practice 3BLD but I'm still 4x my 3x3 best. Maybe I'm practicing the wrong event.



I'm like 7x lol.... a lot to improve.


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## openseas (Sep 24, 2017)

Mike Hughey said:


> I know Mats and I were both over 40 when we went to our first competition. Mats was (well) over 50.



Well, age, yes (first comp over 40s) , podium, no 

There were couple of chances for MBLD but I blew it by one corner twist.

In Tx, no chance of getting any podium from any BLD events.


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## Jason Green (Sep 24, 2017)

openseas said:


> I'm like 7x lol.... a lot to improve.


I'm 18x at home and about 29x officially.  But maybe closer to 15 times on home average.


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## mark49152 (Sep 25, 2017)

@Logiqx once plotted 3BLD versus 3x3 times from WCA data. The best blinders are about 3x (at least they were 3 years ago).

https://www.speedsolving.com/forum/threads/relative-solve-times-for-2x2x2-7x7x7.47405/#post-974568


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## h2f (Sep 25, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> I tend avoid any with more than 1 setup move.



In 12.83 Ishaan used 5 moves setup which seems crazy for me... 

@mark49152 do you mean 3bld to normal ratio? Mine is 3,8 home and 4,55 official.


----------



## newtonbase (Sep 25, 2017)

h2f said:


> In 12.83 Ishaan used 5 moves setup which seems crazy for me...


And yet he can execute in 1s.


----------



## h2f (Sep 25, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> And yet he can execute in 1s.



Yeah - it was 15mover. Amazing.


----------



## openseas (Sep 25, 2017)

As of last week:

There are 29 people lower than 2.5 ratio. (So many for 2.5, just listed one guy).
The number one, aiyan Zhuang, actually, his official 3BLD Pb is faster than his official 333 Pb. I guess he doesn't compete 333 any more. You can see there are a lot of dedicated blders in China high in this ranking as well.

BTW, Kaijun and Jeff are top 2 who has the best 333bf & 333 single combined (nobody else is close), their 333 Pbs (6.13 & 6.81s) are too good as blders, kind of disadvantage to this category.


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## openseas (Sep 25, 2017)

openseas said:


> As of last week:
> 
> The number one, aiyan Zhuang, actually, his official 3BLD Pb is faster than his official 333 Pb. I guess he doesn't compete 333 any more.
> 
> View attachment 8428



I'm kinda wrong. His last competition was year 2010, and he mostly competed both events at the same time. So, he is "UNIQUE" king in this category!


----------



## h2f (Sep 25, 2017)

openseas said:


> I guess he doesn't compete 333 any more.



In case of Kamil Przybylski I dont think the ratio is accurate 











The 20.20 is a full 3bld.


----------



## openseas (Sep 25, 2017)

h2f said:


> The 20.20 is a full 3bld.



Haha, Even Gianfranco & Ishaan do the same for 333 these days (bld'd 333 attemps)


----------



## h2f (Sep 25, 2017)

openseas said:


> Haha, Even Gianfranco & Ishaan do the same for 333 these days (bld'd 333 attemps)



Yeah!  That's a passion.


----------



## xyzzy (Sep 25, 2017)

openseas said:


> I'm kinda wrong. His last competition was year 2010, and he mostly competed both events at the same time. So, he is "UNIQUE" king in this category!


He was actually banned from WCA comps from 2010 to 2013 for unsportsmanlike behaviour, and in that period he set up the Chinese Cube Association. Wiki has an article on him.


----------



## Fyzzna (Sep 25, 2017)

So after the MF3RS debacle I really wasn't sure if I even wanted to give magnetizing another try since ruining my Valk did not at all sound like a fun afternoon to me. However, after some more consideration I decided to just go for it and I have to say I'm quite pleased with the result. Even though I used the same magnets, they feel a lot weaker in the Valk and M-slices are finally bearable.


Also, new PBs (probably not entirely unrelated) 

ao5: 14.58 -> 13.97
ao12: 15.92 -> 15.15
ao50: 16.98 -> 16.45

Times of the ao5 with scrambles:


Spoiler



1. 13.63 F U2 B' R2 F L2 R2 D2 F2 U2 F2 D' F' D' B D' L' R2 U2 F' D'
2. (13.50) R' D2 F' D L B' D' B D F' R F2 R' B2 U2 F2 B2 U2 L B2 R'
3. 13.92 D' L2 U2 L2 R2 D' R2 U' F2 U L B U2 L' B R F2 U2 F' U
4. 14.36 D B2 R2 U2 F2 D B2 D' R2 D' U' R D L U B' L' U F' U' L'
5. (16.43) R F2 B R D2 L F' U D' B' U2 F2 L F2 U2 D2 R' F2 L U2 R


----------



## pglewis (Sep 25, 2017)

With no comp on the horizon I'm taking this time to fully break my 3x3 last layer, it's time to push for full OLL. All that remains are most of the dots, lines, and Frying Pan/mirror for 46/57 now, and I pretty much have H COLL down as well. Recognition and recall are what you'd expect, average dropping to 35-40 with some over a minute while I stare into space recalling. 

I'm also spamming slow-solve F2L pairs at the same time, thinking longer than I normally would in a speedsolve. I expect full OLL should nudge me from mid 20s to low 20s and improving some of my nastier F2L cases should cut down on the slower solves... so I _think_ I should come out the other side of this flirting with ~20. It's not going to be a process of a few days though, my 2-look OLL recog is fairly deeply established.


----------



## Shaky Hands (Sep 25, 2017)

Good stuff @pglewis. I've also been working on OLL a fair bit recently, although as most of my practice is on 5x5, the LL algs are a far smaller percentage of my total solving time than for most people, so I get relatively less time to work on this step. Most of my desire to go further towards Full OLL was due to all 5 of my 3x3 solves at the World Championships having OLL cases I didn't know.

I currently know 45/57 cases. Finishing this off may end up being a target to complete by the end of 2017. Time will tell if I can achieve this or not. But I'd rather set a target and miss it than sit still and learn nothing new.

Hey, optimism!


----------



## pglewis (Sep 26, 2017)

Shaky Hands said:


> Most of my desire to go further towards Full OLL was due to all 5 of my 3x3 solves at the World Championships having OLL cases I didn't know.



Yeah, I plowed right past OLLs I knew in at least two of my solves at comp. I've been at about half for a while, which means I'm still 2-looking half the time and that's becoming a tug of war. Time to bite the bullet and break my old habit. 

Luckily for me I'm reasonably comfortable doing lefty mirrors so it's about half the algs to learn. I'm definitely not as fast from the left but I've worked on being reasonably ambidextrous from the start. Sexy and sledge from the left are definitely comfortable and still outrun rotations, if not as fast as from the right side.


----------



## openseas (Sep 26, 2017)

xyzzy said:


> He was actually banned from WCA comps from 2010 to 2013 for unsportsmanlike behaviour, and in that period he set up the Chinese Cube Association. Wiki has an article on him.



Wow.... thanks for the info.


----------



## Jason Green (Sep 26, 2017)

pglewis said:


> Yeah, I plowed right past OLLs I knew in at least two of my solves at comp. I've been at about half for a while, which means I'm still 2-looking half the time and that's becoming a tug of war. Time to bite the bullet and break my old habit.
> 
> Luckily for me I'm reasonably comfortable doing lefty mirrors so it's about half the algs to learn. I'm definitely not as fast from the left but I've worked on being reasonably ambidextrous from the start. Sexy and sledge from the left are definitely comfortable and still outrun rotations, if not as fast as from the right side.


I've known full OLL quite a while but I learned a lot that aren't that great, pretty much bad mephisto's cheat sheet and even used some of the non preferred ones off that because they were mirrors and easier to learn. I plan to relearn a lot more RU ones at some point, but now it's a matter a priority.


----------



## kbrune (Sep 26, 2017)

Hey guys.

Has anyone heard of anyone selling a 13x13? I've recently started looking to add some big cubes to my collection. I considered buying brand new but I figured I'd check the forums for possible used opportunities. 

I checked the buy/sell/trade section but there aren't many posts for anything above 7x7. And those I tried to message haven't replied. 

Hope everyone's doing well!
Cheers!


----------



## muchacho (Sep 26, 2017)

Mo100 PB: 18.080 (was 18.265 from 3 weeks ago)

My goal this year was to average sub-18, now (sometimes) I feel I'm almost sub-19, maybe I'll not be sub-18 in 2017 but it will be close.

I learned the antisune cases some time ago and I'm still not sure if I'm faster than using 2-look, this should tell me I should start learning the sune cases as soon as possible but it's doing the opposite


----------



## One Wheel (Sep 26, 2017)

kbrune said:


> Hey guys.
> 
> Has anyone heard of anyone selling a 13x13? I've recently started looking to add some big cubes to my collection. I considered buying brand new but I figured I'd check the forums for possible used opportunities.
> 
> ...



Keep an eye out on ebay, and maybe try the twistypuzzles.com forum. They do come up from time to time. You could also post a WTB on the buy/sell/trade forum or on the twistypuzzles forum.


----------



## kbrune (Sep 26, 2017)

One Wheel said:


> Keep an eye out on ebay, and maybe try the twistypuzzles.com forum. They do come up from time to time. You could also post a WTB on the buy/sell/trade forum or on the twistypuzzles forum.



Will do thanks. 

I noticed that you know a lot about many puzzles by your posts. Any advice on what I should look for or ask about before buying a cube that size. 

I've heard they can be unstable?


----------



## One Wheel (Sep 26, 2017)

kbrune said:


> Will do thanks.
> 
> I noticed that you know a lot about many puzzles by your posts. Any advice on what I should look for or ask about before buying a cube that size.
> 
> I've heard they can be unstable?



Not sure I can say I know a lot, but I do enjoy the hardware. I sold a 13x13 a few months back. Most of the questions I got had to do with sticker quality. I never solved the one I had, but I did make a few turns, checkerboard it, etc., and I have to say I was very impressed by the build quality. The Moyu 13x13 is in my observation an exceptionally high quality puzzle. The only other thing I can think to ask is if it's been dropped. It would really be a pain if a piece is broken off or bent inside.


----------



## pglewis (Sep 26, 2017)

muchacho said:


> I learned the antisune cases some time ago and I'm still not sure if I'm faster than using 2-look, this should tell me I should start learning the sune cases as soon as possible but it's doing the opposite



I assume this is Roux/CMLL? Have you been using straight OLL then fixing up corner permutation separately? Never looked deeply into Roux so I'm somewhat ignorant but I'm very interested in LL theory.


----------



## Fyzzna (Sep 26, 2017)

muchacho said:


> Mo100 PB: 18.080 (was 18.265 from 3 weeks ago)
> 
> My goal this year was to average sub-18, now (sometimes) I feel I'm almost sub-19, maybe I'll not be sub-18 in 2017 but it will be close.
> 
> I learned the antisune cases some time ago and I'm still not sure if I'm faster than using 2-look, this should tell me I should start learning the sune cases as soon as possible but it's doing the opposite


Tbh if you already know all the L cases then Sune recog should be a breeze  They're all reasonably fast (except for columns, **** columns) and Sune forward slash is just a shortened version of Pi back slash (meaning only 4 algs to learn). You're definitely going to be slower than 2 look at first, but it's worth it in the long run 



pglewis said:


> I assume this is Roux/CMLL? Have you been using straight OLL then fixing up corner permutation separately? Never looked deeply into Roux so I'm somewhat ignorant but I'm very interested in LL theory.


He's probaly been using 2 look CMLL. How it works is you have 7 cases for corner orientation and 2 cases for corner permutation. Very few algs because you don't care about edges at all


----------



## pglewis (Sep 26, 2017)

Fyzzna said:


> He's probaly been using 2 look CMLL. How it works is you have 7 cases for corner orientation and 2 cases for corner permutation. Very few algs because you don't care about edges at all



Okay, yeah... I assume just the 7 standard OCLL algs and ignoring edges, for 2-look. 



Fyzzna said:


> You're definitely going to be slower than 2 look at first, but it's worth it in the long run



It's definitely a longer term investment in my case. I fully anticipated it destroying my solves for a little while and so far mission accomplished lol. 

But how long could you have possibly spent 2-looking? My memory is you shot straight to 15 seconds in about the time I progressed from 35 to 30


----------



## Fyzzna (Sep 26, 2017)

pglewis said:


> Okay, yeah... I assume just the 7 standard OCLL algs and ignoring edges, for 2-look.


Possibly? Sadly, I'm not that well versed in LL theory 

Here are the algs most people learn for two look anyway:


Spoiler



Adjacent Swap: R U R' F' R U R' U' R' F R2 U' R'
Diagonal Swap: F R U' R' U' R U R' F' R U R' U' R' F R F'
H: F R U R' U' R U R' U' R U R' U' F' or R U R' U R U' R' U R U2' R'
Pi: F R U R' U' R U R' U' F'
U: F R U R' U' F'
T: R U R' U' R' F R F'
S: R U R' U R U2 R'
As: R' U' R U' R' U2’ R
L: F R U' R' U' R U R' F'





pglewis said:


> But how long could you have possibly spent 2-looking? My memory is you shot straight to 15 seconds in about the time I progressed from 35 to 30


Haha I'm not quite at 15 seconds yet, but I'll keep trying  I only learned one look mid August so really did spend quite a long time two looking.


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## newtonbase (Sep 26, 2017)

Did some non blind practice for the first time in ages. I haven't miraculously improved in 3x3 but I don't think I've timed any solves since Manchester. Did get a PLL skip on 4x4 (untimed) then tried an easy blind scramble and got my first sub 1 min DNF.
D2 F' L2 D2 B' U2 F' R2 B2 D2 B' D B2 D F' U' F R D' U2 R' Fw' Uw c/o Graham Siggins


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## muchacho (Sep 26, 2017)

I've timed myself in the alg trainer, apparently for antisune cases I'm almost half a second faster than using 2-look (when I don't screw it up). But almost 4 seconds including AUF


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## pglewis (Sep 26, 2017)

Fyzzna said:


> Possibly? Sadly, I'm not that well versed in LL theory
> 
> Here are the algs most people learn for two look anyway:



Oh, duh... the same seven case names but using OCLLs wouldn't be optimized since you don't need to preserve U layer edges at that step with Roux (OCLL assumes edges are already oriented with an edges first 2-look).


----------



## One Wheel (Sep 27, 2017)

I'm making another (hopefully last) stab at learning M2. I think I've finally figured something out, and thought I'd ask the experts: with OP I'm in the habit of memorizing the target sticker next, but applying M-slice target algs to a solved cube I see that when I shoot my DB target (U2 M' U2 M') the sticker that was in the UB spot is in my buffer, rather than the sticker that was in the DB spot as would be the case with OP. I'm sure I'm either doing something wrong or this is something so elementary that it's just assumed, but I've watched a couple of tutorials and they talk about switching UF/DB and FU/BD depending on odd or even target but I haven't heard this mentioned.

DB next sticker is in UB spot
BU next sticker is in FU spot
UF next sticker is in DB spot
FU next sticker is in DB spot

Am I still missing something, or did I finally figure out what everybody else knew all along?

E: I tried it on a scrambled cube and now I'm just confused. I'll try again tomorrow.


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## newtonbase (Sep 27, 2017)

One Wheel said:


> I'm making another (hopefully last) stab at learning M2. I think I've finally figured something out, and thought I'd ask the experts: with OP I'm in the habit of memorizing the target sticker next, but applying M-slice target algs to a solved cube I see that when I shoot my DB target (U2 M' U2 M') the sticker that was in the UB spot is in my buffer, rather than the sticker that was in the DB spot as would be the case with OP. I'm sure I'm either doing something wrong or this is something so elementary that it's just assumed, but I've watched a couple of tutorials and they talk about switching UF/DB and FU/BD depending on odd or even target but I haven't heard this mentioned.
> 
> DB next sticker is in UB spot
> BU next sticker is in FU spot
> ...


This is one of the complications of M2. If FU, UF, BD or DB are the first letter in a pair (odd position in your memo) then do the standard alg. But, if they are the 2nd letter in the pair (even position in your memo) then they need to be executed as if they are an M2 away from their normal position so FU becomes BD, UF becomes DB, BD becomes FU and DB becomes UF.
UB/BU is not effected by this!
Also, U2 M' U2 M' is the alg for UF and is only used on DB if it is the 2nd letter in the pair.


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## mitja (Sep 27, 2017)

pglewis said:


> Oh, duh... the same seven case names but using OCLLs wouldn't be optimized since you don't need to preserve U layer edges at that step with Roux (OCLL assumes edges are already oriented with an edges first 2-look).


Why wouldn't you just use Ortega method from 2x2?


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## mark49152 (Sep 27, 2017)

mitja said:


> Why wouldn't you just use Ortega method from 2x2?


Some of the Ortega OLLs don't preserve the Roux blocks.


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## openseas (Sep 27, 2017)

One Wheel said:


> I'm making another (hopefully last) stab at learning M2. I think I've finally figured something out, and thought I'd ask the experts: with OP I'm in the habit of memorizing the target sticker next, but applying M-slice target algs to a solved cube I see that when I shoot my DB target (U2 M' U2 M') the sticker that was in the UB spot is in my buffer, rather than the sticker that was in the DB spot as would be the case with OP. I'm sure I'm either doing something wrong or this is something so elementary that it's just assumed, but I've watched a couple of tutorials and they talk about switching UF/DB and FU/BD depending on odd or even target but I haven't heard this mentioned.
> 
> DB next sticker is in UB spot
> BU next sticker is in FU spot
> ...



As @newtonbase explained, these are the cases you need to shoot opposite side for M2, and also for u2& r2 (4BLD). Just think that fact that you are turning slices twice so that your biffer and target had bee switched ti the opposite direction. When you do the first part of the letter pair, everything is in place but for the 2nd pair, since you did M2, all M slice pieces are in the opposite side.

Once you realize and practice a little bit, it will become natural.


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## Jason Green (Sep 27, 2017)

I think I need an image list. 

I said before I like coming up with them on the fly, but I'm realizing more that I'm basically just coming up with sentences with maybe one or two images if I'm lucky. I think for 3 BLD which is all I'm doing so far it does not matter as much, but this is also why multi seems like such a hard concept now, my memo wouldn't work very well. Any recommendations on format if I start a list? I know some have been shared (I think). Probably just a big spreadsheet I suppose.


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## mark49152 (Sep 27, 2017)

Jason Green said:


> Any recommendations on format if I start a list? I know some have been shared (I think). Probably just a big spreadsheet I suppose.


I started out with a spreadsheet. Then when I started relying on Anki I ended up editing the Anki files more and more to refine my list. I still keep the spreadsheet as a "master" but it often falls out of sync. If you plan to use Anki or similar and are happy enough to use their format (linear list) as a master that would be more convenient I guess.


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## pglewis (Sep 27, 2017)

One Wheel said:


> ... but applying M-slice target algs to a solved cube I see that...



I actually think M2 can be more confusing sighted than blind. Like edges swapping with OP corners, if you just follow your memo and the rules everything simply works itself out. I memo M2 normally and just remember to swap certain even targets so that MI is executed as MS, or you can swap it during memo so that you actually memo MS (Mark does this).

For straight M2 sighted practice without memo you might consider figuring out and solving 2 pieces at a time so you're not trying to memo/trace against a shifted M slice (which you'd never encounter during a real blind solve).


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## pglewis (Sep 27, 2017)

Jason Green said:


> I think I need an image list.
> 
> I said before I like coming up with them on the fly, but I'm realizing more that I'm basically just coming up with sentences with maybe one or two images if I'm lucky. I think for 3 BLD which is all I'm doing so far it does not matter as much, but this is also why multi seems like such a hard concept now, my memo wouldn't work very well. Any recommendations on format if I start a list? I know some have been shared (I think). Probably just a big spreadsheet I suppose.



I'm just using a Google spreadsheet with A-X as both columns and rows. My three primary resources: 

http://peoplebyinitials.com/
http://www.abbreviations.com/
and good 'ol Wikipedia: https://www.wikipedia.org/


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## mitja (Sep 27, 2017)

pglewis said:


> I actually think M2 can be more confusing sighted than blind. Like edges swapping with OP corners, if you just follow your memo and the rules everything simply works itself out. I memo M2 normally and just remember to swap certain even targets so that MI is executed as MS, or you can swap it during memo so that you actually memo MS (Mark does this).
> 
> For straight M2 sighted practice without memo you might consider figuring out and solving 2 pieces at a time so you're not trying to memo against a shifted M slice (which you'd never encounter during a real blind solve).


I must say I also had a problem with sighted rehearsal for M2. The problem were middle edges, but just at the beginning. Funny, much less problems when rehearsing blind. My problem is memo images. I never tried harder to make a list of images. I like to make them on the fly, maybe that's just my imagination.( I am a Choreographer by profession for 30 years and love to imagine and create on the fly) I like to give a challenge to my mind(not that young any more, especially on this forum). That's the main reason for speedcubing. But, I know I have to start doing the list of images.
My problem is, I don't use speffz just my own set of letters. I memo in two languges slovenian and english, that way i get more interesting images. I guess memo goes much faster by regullar set of images.


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## pglewis (Sep 27, 2017)

mitja said:


> But, I know I have to start doing the list of images.



It's a lot of images to collect so it's definitely a long-term project. I think most people do better "on the fly" than I do so I put a lot of attention into my image list from the start back in Jan; it still has plenty of holes. If you're going to spend the time to dig up images for your pairs I'd definitely take the extra time to make sure they're "good" images... something vivid enough to visualize well and properly leverage your visual image memory. 



mitja said:


> My problem is, I don't use speffz just my own set of letters. I memo in two languges slovenian and english, that way i get more interesting images. I guess memo goes much faster by regullar set of images.



Not using speffz has the downside that it can be a little trickier sharing images and generally communicating with speffz users. I'm very slow deciphering the universal LB or UBR notation because I never practice that but a speffz letter is mostly automatic. I completely understand that speffz might not be the best choice for some languages, though.


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## mitja (Sep 27, 2017)

pglewis said:


> It's a lot of images to collect so it's definitely a long-term project. I think most people do better "on the fly" than I do so I put a lot of attention into my image list from the start back in Jan; it still has plenty of holes. If you're going to spend the time to dig up images for your pairs I'd definitely take the extra time to make sure they're "good" images... something vivid enough to visualize well and properly leverage your visual image memory.
> 
> 
> 
> Not using speffz has the downside that it can be a little trickier sharing images and generally communicating with speffz users. I'm very slow deciphering the universal LB or UBR notation because I never practice that but a speffz letter is mostly automatic. I completely understand that speffz might not be the best choice for some languages, though.


I am still a beginner at blind, that means 2-3 minutes memo and the same for op/M2( if in the mood it can both be 1 minute shorter)So I could still switch to speffz, but I like the scheme from Andy Klise guide. And I replaced y,w with slovenian č,š. I can simply produce more words that way. Maybe I should use speffz and replace the same letters, but it would be a whole new process. Also want to start 4bld and I want to decide the letter scheme before I begin.


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## pglewis (Sep 27, 2017)

mitja said:


> I am still a beginner at blind, that means 2-3 minutes memo and the same for op/M2( if in the mood it can both be 1 minute shorter)So I could still switch to speffz, but I like the scheme from Andy Klise guide. And I replaced y,w with slovenian č,š. I can simply produce more words that way. Maybe I should use speffz and replace the same letters, but it would be a whole new process. Also want to start 4bld and I want to decide the letter scheme before I begin.



You're probably averaging quite a bit faster than I am. I have one single ~4 mins but that's faster than my usual memo alone lol. I still have practice to do to get consistently under 6-7 mins. I've been at it for a while but with breaks in practice and I have a few weaknesses that slow my progress. I'm not a natural but I can make up for some of it with stubbornness. 

If I recall, @h2f also uses a variant letter scheme for a similar reason (Polish language), and he's doing just fine . There's nothing particularly magic about speffz other than standards make conversation a little smoother/clearer.


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## newtonbase (Sep 27, 2017)

I prefer a straight list with all the pairs in one column. It gives the opportunity for multiple entries unlike a grid.


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## mark49152 (Sep 27, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> I prefer a straight list with all the pairs in one column. It gives the opportunity for multiple entries unlike a grid.


Yeah that is a good point. I have multiple images for many pairs now, as that can be really helpful, but in my spreadsheet I had to put them in cell comments which hides them. In my Anki files I have them on one line like "X or Y or Z", but it fits easily.


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## pglewis (Sep 27, 2017)

I just pile multiples into a cell. That's not to say there aren't other possible advantages to a linear list, though.


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## mark49152 (Sep 27, 2017)

@pglewis, that looks like a lot of horizontal scrolling. Also looks like a lot of alternative images - are you learning that many for every pair?


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## openseas (Sep 27, 2017)

Jason Green said:


> I think I need an image list.
> 
> I said before I like coming up with them on the fly, but I'm realizing more that I'm basically just coming up with sentences with maybe one or two images if I'm lucky. I think for 3 BLD which is all I'm doing so far it does not matter as much, but this is also why multi seems like such a hard concept now, my memo wouldn't work very well. Any recommendations on format if I start a list? I know some have been shared (I think). Probably just a big spreadsheet I suppose.



I downloaded this from somewhere forgot who created this.

It is called PAO list (Person Action Object)

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1q3iErfXa4xh6ryRyJlZN2c4ixirdETeHmY5KzcTU7oo/edit?usp=sharing


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## openseas (Sep 27, 2017)

mitja said:


> My problem is, I don't use speffz just my own set of letters. I memo in two languges slovenian and english, that way i get more interesting images. I guess memo goes much faster by regullar set of images.



Haha, same here. I mix several languages whatever comes to my mind first, but like to use "prepared" images most cases. Set of list reduces memo time quite a bit, definitely.


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## pglewis (Sep 27, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> @pglewis, that looks like a lot of horizontal scrolling. Also looks like a lot of alternative images - are you learning that many for every pair?



It _is_ a lot of horizontal scrolling with a mouse, I was gonna say that's probably the biggest downside. It hasn't seemed too cumbersome as a reference, gets the job done. At some point I'll export the data, squeeze it into a DB, and work out a friendlier interface. Or maybe when I dig into Anki I'll just end up using that. 

Only time will tell whether I'm learning that many per pair. My attitude is the primary cost is looking up images so if I'm already in the process of digging into a pair then I put down everything potentially useful I find, not just one or two. I don't always guess which are going to be better until I try them out and I do like having a variety if I'm practicing a lot or looking forward to mbld. And who knows, maybe in 5 years I _do_ have that many to draw from at will even though two or three per pair is probably plenty sufficient.


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## Jason Green (Sep 28, 2017)

openseas said:


> I downloaded this from somewhere forgot who created this.
> 
> It is called PAO list (Person Action Object)
> 
> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1q3iErfXa4xh6ryRyJlZN2c4ixirdETeHmY5KzcTU7oo/edit?usp=sharing


That's awesome thanks!

I guess this is the Anki? I was not aware of it.  https://apps.ankiweb.net


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## One Wheel (Sep 28, 2017)

Thanks for the help guys! I still haven't figured it all out yet, but I'll get there. I still need to memorize the long algs for M2 (I can do mirrors, but not inverses for algs that long, and it seems I'm objectively bad at memorizing algs. Or maybe I'm just objectively bad at trying to memorize algs  

I also run a non-standard lettering scheme. I think I tried Speffz, but I don't know if I misunderstood it or intentionally changed it. ABCD CW from UBL, EFGH CW from FUR, IJKL CW from RUF, MNOP CW from LUB, QRST CCW from BUL (CW viewed "through" the cube), UVWX CCW from DBL (CW viewed "through" the cube).

My current cubing goals are:
1. M2
2. 4BLD
3. 5BLD
4. Full OLL


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## openseas (Sep 28, 2017)

One Wheel said:


> Thanks for the help guys! I still haven't figured it all out yet, but I'll get there. I still need to memorize the long algs for M2 (I can do mirrors, but not inverses for algs that long, and it seems I'm objectively bad at memorizing algs. Or maybe I'm just objectively bad at trying to memorize algs
> 
> I also run a non-standard lettering scheme. I think I tried Speffz, but I don't know if I misunderstood it or intentionally changed it. ABCD CW from UBL, EFGH CW from FUR, IJKL CW from RUF, MNOP CW from LUB, QRST CCW from BUL (CW viewed "through" the cube), UVWX CCW from DBL (CW viewed "through" the cube).
> 
> ...



You goals are exactly aligned with mine, even sequence 

Now, I need 3 & 4 (#2 needs official success, too)


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## One Wheel (Sep 28, 2017)

I was going to post a scramble and memo for M2 to see if I had got it, and the first one I tried has everything but a cycle break in the first few targets. Assuming a DF buffer, how would you memo edges for this scramble? 
F2 R2 B2 D2 L2 U' R2 F2 D B2 U' F U2 R D U F2 R B' U
When I convert it to Speffz I get SD C as my first 3 letters, then I'm lost. R PL BN QX V maybe? TD CP FN IR QX W in my lettering scheme.


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## h2f (Sep 28, 2017)

pglewis said:


> If I recall, @h2f also uses a variant letter scheme for a similar reason (Polish language), and he's doing just fine . There's nothing particularly magic about speffz other than standards make conversation a little smoother/clearer.



Yes, my letter scheme is different to speffz - I didnt know Speffz when I created it but in Polish there's no good words with x, q, y etc. Speffz is just Speffz - it doesnt affect your speed or progress. And in communication things I prefer when someone uses targets like UB - UR and to Speffz (BC?).


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## newtonbase (Sep 28, 2017)

openseas said:


> I downloaded this from somewhere forgot who created this.
> 
> It is called PAO list (Person Action Object)
> 
> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1q3iErfXa4xh6ryRyJlZN2c4ixirdETeHmY5KzcTU7oo/edit?usp=sharing


I have contributed to that one. The owner mentioned it on Facebook recently but I can't remember who. I'll try and find the original link when I get my phone back from my 3yo.


One Wheel said:


> I was going to post a scramble and memo for M2 to see if I had got it, and the first one I tried has everything but a cycle break in the first few targets. Assuming a DF buffer, how would you memo edges for this scramble?
> F2 R2 B2 D2 L2 U' R2 F2 D B2 U' F U2 R D U F2 R B' U
> When I convert it to Speffz I get SD C as my first 3 letters, then I'm lost. R PL BN QX V maybe? TD CP FN IR QX W in my lettering scheme.


I get SH JF MT QG OD CE (cycle break after the O). I think we are using different scrambles.


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## openseas (Sep 28, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> I get SH JF MT QG OD CE (cycle break after the O). I think we are using different scrambles.



TH JF MU RG O/D CE

I'm not using Speffz either so may not be help. (/ means cycle break)


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## AlphaSheep (Sep 28, 2017)

pglewis said:


> I'm just using a Google spreadsheet with A-X as both columns and rows. My three primary resources:
> 
> http://peoplebyinitials.com/
> http://www.abbreviations.com/
> and good 'ol Wikipedia: https://www.wikipedia.org/


This is also a useful resource for some of the hard cases:
http://bestsiteever.ru/letterpairs/


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## h2f (Sep 28, 2017)

AlphaSheep said:


> This is also a useful resource for some of the hard cases:
> http://bestsiteever.ru/letterpairs/



And for other stuff like algs. Tons of algs. Just go to http://bestsiteever.ru


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## newtonbase (Sep 28, 2017)

openseas said:


> TH JF MU RG O/D CE
> 
> I'm not using Speffz either so may not be help. (/ means cycle break)


Only the B face letters are different there so pretty close. I wonder what proportion use Speffz. It's certainly not high enough to assume someone uses it.


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## newtonbase (Sep 28, 2017)

h2f said:


> And for other stuff like algs. Tons of algs. Just go to http://bestsiteever.ru


That site is well named.

Peoplebyinitials.com would be even more useful if it included fictional characters. I wonder if someone here might have the skills and time to do something like that?


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## One Wheel (Sep 28, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> I get SH JF MT QG OD CE (cycle break after the O). I think we are using different scrambles.



I think we're using the same scramble, I just messed up my tracing. After executing that memo I ended up with 5 edges solved. I need to go now, but a little later I'll try solving the corners first so I can see if it's a bad setup move or what.


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## pglewis (Sep 28, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> Peoplebyinitials.com would be even more useful if it included fictional characters. I wonder if someone here might have the skills and time to do something like that?



Very very much this, I've had the same thought multiple times.


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## Jason Green (Sep 28, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> Only the B face letters are different there so pretty close. I wonder what proportion use Speffz. It's certainly not high enough to assume someone uses it.


You might be impressed with my ability to assume things. 



newtonbase said:


> That site is well named.
> 
> Peoplebyinitials.com would be even more useful if it included fictional characters. I wonder if someone here might have the skills and time to do something like that?


For me, skills: debatable, time: undebatably no.


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## pglewis (Sep 28, 2017)

One Wheel said:


> I was going to post a scramble and memo for M2 to see if I had got it, and the first one I tried has everything but a cycle break in the first few targets. Assuming a DF buffer, how would you memo edges for this scramble?
> F2 R2 B2 D2 L2 U' R2 F2 D B2 U' F U2 R D U F2 R B' U
> When I convert it to Speffz I get SD C as my first 3 letters, then I'm lost. R PL BN QX V maybe? TD CP FN IR QX W in my lettering scheme.



I would have to know your solving orientation and scramble from a different orientation so my memo would match.


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## Jason Green (Sep 28, 2017)

I got the Anki Droid app it looks pretty cool. Does anyone use it? Is there an easy way to import stuff into it, or can you edit from the desktop and use that? I'll have to play some more.


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## mark49152 (Sep 28, 2017)

Jason Green said:


> I got the Anki Droid app it looks pretty cool. Does anyone use it? Is there an easy way to import stuff into it, or can you edit from the desktop and use that? I'll have to play some more.


It's cool, but rather over-engineered, at least for the purposes we will use it. 

I edit the pairs in list format in a file on desktop, put the file into the Anki folder on the phone, and import them to new decks from there. I don't remember all the exact details but can figure it out If that's not enough to get you going.


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## One Wheel (Sep 28, 2017)

pglewis said:


> I would have to know your solving orientation and scramble from a different orientation so my memo would match.


I scramble and solve with green front white top.


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## pglewis (Sep 28, 2017)

Then I can verify @newtonbase (slash is cycle break) SH JF MT QG O/D CE


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## pglewis (Sep 28, 2017)

Also, I guess I should be scrambling from my orientation in blind practice from now on. I've been scrambling from WCA but my orientation is yellow top, green front. Makes a lot of sense if I ever want/need to share a scramble.


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## newtonbase (Sep 28, 2017)

pglewis said:


> Then I can verify @newtonbase (slash is cycle break) SH JF MT QG O/D CE


I should have chosen E ID at the end. Much quicker.


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## Jason Green (Sep 28, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> It's cool, but rather over-engineered, at least for the purposes we will use it.
> 
> I edit the pairs in list format in a file on desktop, put the file into the Anki folder on the phone, and import them to new decks from there. I don't remember all the exact details but can figure it out If that's not enough to get you going.


Thanks, I see how to import and it tells me the folder to use. I just need to know the format for the .apkg file which I'm sure I can find. Or I might try exporting from the desktop app?


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## mark49152 (Sep 28, 2017)

Jason Green said:


> Thanks, I see how to import and it tells me the folder to use. I just need to know the format for the .apkg file which I'm sure I can find. Or I might try exporting from the desktop app?


Yeah you're correct. It's a while since I've done it, but I think I did have to import then export from the desktop app.


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## CLL Smooth (Sep 28, 2017)

Did I come into the blindfold discussion thread? I feel so out of place. Of course I don't have anything constructive to say. I still cube though.


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## newtonbase (Sep 28, 2017)

CLL Smooth said:


> Did I come into the blindfold discussion thread? I feel so out of place. Of course I don't have anything constructive to say. I still cube though.


Blind does seem to be a popular topic at the moment.


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## Jason Green (Sep 29, 2017)

CLL Smooth said:


> Did I come into the blindfold discussion thread? I feel so out of place. Of course I don't have anything constructive to say. I still cube though.


Yes we all love blind, can't you see?

... But no we still talk about other stuff.


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## pglewis (Sep 29, 2017)

CLL Smooth said:


> Did I come into the blindfold discussion thread? I feel so out of place. Of course I don't have anything constructive to say. I still cube though.



A few of us recently got first official successes and Mark just landed an official 14/16 in mbld, so it's all the rage around here . What's been up?


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## openseas (Sep 29, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> I should have chosen E ID at the end. Much quicker.



Yes, right, with ID together, much less move count.


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## One Wheel (Sep 29, 2017)

Thanks again for all your help. I got a near-success today writing down targets and executing under the table. All my corners were correct, as were 2 of my M-slice targets, plus a flipped buffer. 3 total edges out of place and 3 flipped in place. I'm not sure if it was a matter of "memorizing" the wrong letters or of executing the wrong targets. It'll be a while before I'm any good, but I really appreciate the help and I'm moving the right direction.


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## Jason Green (Sep 29, 2017)

One Wheel said:


> Thanks again for all your help. I got a near-success today writing down targets and executing under the table. All my corners were correct, as were 2 of my M-slice targets, plus a flipped buffer. 3 total edges out of place and 3 flipped in place. I'm not sure if it was a matter of "memorizing" the wrong letters or of executing the wrong targets. It'll be a while before I'm any good, but I really appreciate the help and I'm moving the right direction.


If you know the scramble I think it's useful to go back through and figure out what went wrong. If it's a memo error you'll probably see it when you check the memo, otherwise you could try executing again. I don't do it as much now but I still do sometimes.


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## newtonbase (Sep 29, 2017)

openseas said:


> Yes, right, with ID together, much less move count.


Yes. CE is 11 moves in M2. ID is an easy 8 move comm.
But also, OE is easier than OD. I'd do OD with M2 in 18 but OE is a setup to a 7 move comm (9 moves total). I could get OD down to 10 but not in a timed solve.


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## newtonbase (Sep 29, 2017)

One Wheel said:


> Thanks again for all your help. I got a near-success today writing down targets and executing under the table. All my corners were correct, as were 2 of my M-slice targets, plus a flipped buffer. 3 total edges out of place and 3 flipped in place. I'm not sure if it was a matter of "memorizing" the wrong letters or of executing the wrong targets. It'll be a while before I'm any good, but I really appreciate the help and I'm moving the right direction.


Well done on the progress. As @Jason Green says, retry the scramble if you have it. If you can't work out what went wrong then we could have a look at it. Message my inbox if you don't want to clog up the thread with it.


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## h2f (Sep 29, 2017)

CLL Smooth said:


> Did I come into the blindfold discussion thread? I feel so out of place. Of course I don't have anything constructive to say. I still cube though.



I got MF7S. Guess what I'm thinking now?


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## mark49152 (Sep 29, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> Yes. CE is 11 moves in M2. ID is an easy 8 move comm.
> But also, OE is easier than OD. I'd do OD with M2 in 18 but OE is a setup to a 7 move comm (9 moves total). I could get OD down to 10 but not in a timed solve.


Trouble is, if you spend those few seconds thinking about it during memo, you cancel out any advantage of nicer comms later .


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## mafergut (Sep 29, 2017)

Yeah, this BLD virus is highly contagious 

I am resisting myself only because I don't have that much time to cube any more...
Anyway I wanted to say hi again to all my friends here, I don't want you to forget about me yet 

After some months without practising and a summer where I had time to practise again but I devoted that time mainly to skewb this week I did, for the first time in months, a couple Ao50s. First one with GTS2 was bad, around mid 19s and I thought I was rusty but then yesterday I did another one with my GTS2M and got a 17,84 just 0.05 slower than my PB Ao50 and with only 3 solves over 20 seconds. Conclusion: I need magnets  Taking into account that one or two magnets became loose at the beginning of the average and during some solves they were making distracting noises (but not affecting much the performance of the cube) that was a great average for me. Now I'll have to disassemble the cube, locate the rogue magnets and glue them... and I hate that. I would have been better off paying extra for a cubicle labs one 

Now thinking about maybe getting a Yuexiao Pro M. And maybe a WuXia M 2x2 too.

Oh, and my son, who started practising again a couple weeks ago, after a long time since I taught him CFOP, is now averaging sub-50 with 4-look LL and finishing the 1st PLL at sub-40 many times. Gotta convince him to finish learning all the PLLs.


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## newtonbase (Sep 29, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> Trouble is, if you spend those few seconds thinking about it during memo, you cancel out any advantage of nicer comms later .


Agreed. I'd certainly not look ahead to the ID pair in a real solve but I should really be choosing E after O.


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## mark49152 (Sep 29, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> Agreed. I'd certainly not look ahead to the ID pair in a real solve but I should really be choosing E after O.


For what it's worth, I'd have chosen D too, as it's a good default choice to start a new cycle. In execution I'd have done U to set OD up to OA. In an untimed solve I'd have then done U' to set CE up to BI/BS but in a timed solve I still sometimes hesitate to set up to I/S positions so I'd probably just have done vanilla M2.


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## newtonbase (Sep 29, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> For what it's worth, I'd have chosen D too, as it's a good default choice to start a new cycle. In execution I'd have done U to set OD up to OA. In an untimed solve I'd have then done U' to set CE up to BI/BS but in a timed solve I still sometimes hesitate to set up to I/S positions so I'd probably just have done vanilla M2.


I like EO as it sets up nicely to EM which is a favourite comm but setting up D to A is always a good option.
There are so many good options in advanced M2. Most of which I learned from your thread. There's hardly a post on there that doesn't offer something valuable.


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## mark49152 (Sep 29, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> I like EO as it sets up nicely to EM which is a favourite comm but setting up D to A is always a good option.
> There are so many good options in advanced M2. Most of which I learned from your thread. There's hardly a post on there that doesn't offer something valuable.


What do you do for EM? M U' M U2 M' U' M'?


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## Jason Green (Sep 29, 2017)

mafergut said:


> Yeah, this BLD virus is highly contagious
> 
> I am resisting myself only because I don't have that much time to cube any more...
> Anyway I wanted to say hi again to all my friends here, I don't want you to forget about me yet
> ...


My Valk M is a cubicle labs and it has had magnets come out twice.  It was pretty early in the offering so maybe they've improved their technique, I still love it anyway.


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## newtonbase (Sep 29, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> What do you do for EM? M U' M U2 M' U' M'?


Yes, and if it's HN switch the first move for x' and last for x. I'm working on a version for GO but it's not in the muscle memory yet.


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## pglewis (Sep 29, 2017)

One Wheel said:


> Thanks again for all your help. I got a near-success today writing down targets and executing under the table. All my corners were correct, as were 2 of my M-slice targets, plus a flipped buffer. 3 total edges out of place and 3 flipped in place. I'm not sure if it was a matter of "memorizing" the wrong letters or of executing the wrong targets. It'll be a while before I'm any good, but I really appreciate the help and I'm moving the right direction.



If anything in your execution feels iffy then be sure to put focus on sighted execution practice. I think it's a lot easier to work on the memo side when you're confident that careful execution is a given. I've had to go back several times and dedicate a day or three to sighted execution practice. 



mafergut said:


> Conclusion: I need magnets  Taking into account that one or two magnets became loose at the beginning of the average and during some solves they were making distracting noises (but not affecting much the performance of the cube) that was a great average for me. Now I'll have to disassemble the cube, locate the rogue magnets and glue them... and I hate that. I would have been better off paying extra for a cubicle labs one



FWIW, I have two standard GTS2-Ms and neither have had a magnet come loose yet, though I'm sure I'll be reaching for the glue eventually. I've even dropped my main a handful of times-- watching helplessly in slow-motion horror-- and both have had hours upon hours of repeated normal shock from being dropped on the mat to stop the stackmat. I also seem to have some of that subconscious tick of tapping my cube on the mat in blind solves while thinking. I keep expecting to shake one and hear a rattle and haven't yet. 

Despite the eventual maintenance of loose magnets and stiffer slices than I'd like, I really don't think I can go back after going magnetic. I think I'd prefer slightly weaker magnets than what they use in the GTS2-M but that's about the only thing I could think to change, other than some black magic that could solve the slice-resistance dilemma.


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## mark49152 (Sep 29, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> Yes, and if it's HN switch the first move for x' and last for x. I'm working on a version for GO but it's not in the muscle memory yet.


I see. I use that sometimes but am not really comfortable with L2 or R2 setups to it, although can't explain exactly why. Grip and fingering just feel clumsy. These days I'm more likely to set up to FU. Like for EO, I'd do [U': [M', U' R2 U]] which is 9 moves with cancellation and works for bigBLD wings too.


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## mark49152 (Sep 29, 2017)

Here's my MBLD from last weekend along with post mortem. The second mistake was with an R2 setup similar to that mentioned in my last post. I'm even less comfortable with those now .


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## pglewis (Sep 29, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> Here's my MBLD from last weekend along with post mortem. The second mistake was with an R2 setup similar to that mentioned in my last post. I'm even less comfortable with those now .



That toppled can! 

That could have been disastrous, unsealed drinks probably shouldn't be on solving tables.


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## mark49152 (Sep 29, 2017)

pglewis said:


> That toppled can!
> 
> That could have been disastrous, unsealed drinks probably shouldn't be on solving tables.


Imagine the shock of picking up cubes to execute, and finding them unexpectedly wet and sticky .


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## Jason Green (Sep 30, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> These days I'm more likely to set up to FU.


Rude... 

Haha couldn't resist I don't know why. I'm not even drinking.

Edit: BTW great job on the video again, I love the way you edit them. Watching that makes me feel like a non cuber would feel about me being able to do a single blind.


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## newtonbase (Sep 30, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> I see. I use that sometimes but am not really comfortable with L2 or R2 setups to it, although can't explain exactly why. Grip and fingering just feel clumsy. These days I'm more likely to set up to FU. Like for EO, I'd do [U': [M', U' R2 U]] which is 9 moves with cancellation and works for bigBLD wings too.


You could always do it the other way to avoid the R2 but you'd be doing an F or and x so it might still be awkward. 
[U': [F R F', M]] or [U' x: [U R U', M]]



mark49152 said:


> Here's my MBLD from last weekend along with post mortem. The second mistake was with an R2 setup similar to that mentioned in my last post. I'm even less comfortable with those now .


You might need to get one of those card holder things to practice with. What are they called?


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## h2f (Sep 30, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> [U': [F R F', M]] or [U' x: [U R U', M]]



I think there should be M' instead of M. You can also do this straight [M' U' M, D']. I used to the first alg though I think about switching.


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## mark49152 (Sep 30, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> You could always do it the other way to avoid the R2 but you'd be doing an F or and x so it might still be awkward.
> [U': [F R F', M]] or [U' x: [U R U', M]]


That second one is pretty nice (I think the U direction should be switched though - [U' x: [U' R U, M]]). I've not used edge comms that insert to the buffer position before, so that might take some time to get my head around. Perhaps that's something I should try more. I do it for corners without problems.



newtonbase said:


> You might need to get one of those card holder things to practice with. What are they called?


Harmonica holder. I don't think practice would help though - I'm just a forgetful person


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## mark49152 (Sep 30, 2017)

h2f said:


> I think there should be M' instead of M. You can also do this straight [M' U' M, D'].


That's VE not EO.


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## h2f (Sep 30, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> That's VE not EO.



The [U': [F R F', M]] doesnt work for me: https://alg.cubing.net/?setup=[U-:_[F_R_F-,_M]]

But works with M'. Still, I dont know Speffz thats why I thought it was LU-DR. Ok. Nevermind.


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## newtonbase (Sep 30, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> That second one is pretty nice (I think the U direction should be switched though - [U' x: [U' R U, M]]).


Yes, my mistake.


mark49152 said:


> Harmonica holder. I don't think practice would help though - I'm just a forgetful person


I had to practice using a blindfold before the WCs so I didn't just close my eyes before the solve. Bad way to DNF.


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## mark49152 (Sep 30, 2017)

h2f said:


> The [U': [F R F', M]] doesnt work for me


The F moves were reversed - try [U': [F' R F, M]]



newtonbase said:


> I had to practice using a blindfold before the WCs so I didn't just close my eyes before the solve. Bad way to DNF.


Yeah thanks for reminding me . That's exactly what I did at WCs.


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## h2f (Sep 30, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> The F moves were reversed - try [U': [F' R F, M]]



Now it works fine.


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## muchacho (Sep 30, 2017)

11.608 reconstruction, I would say it was a good solve, but it's more like the cube was solving itself (2 SB pairs made, second part of a 2-look CMLL skipped, lucky LSE).

54722 30-sep-2017 14:47:39 00:11.608 U' F2 D' F2 L2 D' R2 D' U' F2 L2 B R' L F2 U' F U F' U' L2
y
U2 M B L' U L U2 M' F'
U' R2 R U' R' U2 Rw U Rw' U2 Rw' U' Rw
R U R' U R U2 R'
U M' U M' U M U M'
U' M' U2 M U

42 STM
3.62 TPS


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## pglewis (Sep 30, 2017)

I realized last week that I've been doing something really dumb for 3bld: memo-ing edges, memo-ing corners _then solving edges_. Starting with corner execution first obviously means I don't have to embed the corner memo so deeply and can cut up to 2 mins off my memo. 

I think this puts me in the 4-6 min range. I say "I think" because I've hit a spell where I'm getting ~0% success rate. At least I've been failing with variety: 


Very last thing I memo'd didn't stick
Bad trace, skipped a letter
Memo'd wrong sticker on a piece
Memo'd B instead of D (red/orange swap)
Memo'd T instead of R (red/orange again)
Recalled "fighter jet" incorrectly as "jet fighter"
Execution error with x' rotation and trying to cancel some moves
Unknown execution error
Started execution in the wrong orientation


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## mafergut (Sep 30, 2017)

Jason Green said:


> My Valk M is a cubicle labs and it has had magnets come out twice.  It was pretty early in the offering so maybe they've improved their technique, I still love it anyway.





pglewis said:


> FWIW, I have two standard GTS2-Ms and neither have had a magnet come loose yet, though I'm sure I'll be reaching for the glue eventually. I've even dropped my main a handful of times-- watching helplessly in slow-motion horror-- [...] Despite the eventual maintenance of loose magnets and stiffer slices than I'd like, I really don't think I can go back after going magnetic. I think I'd prefer slightly weaker magnets than what they use in the GTS2-M but that's about the only thing I could think to change, other than some black magic that could solve the slice-resistance dilemma.



Thanks for the advice. Then I will not complain about bad quality control by Moyu and will assume that's the way it is with magnetic 3x3s. Anyway, it didn't take that much time to locate the piece with the loose magnets and glue them back. In fact I found it so easy I might end up using those 100 magnets I have lying around to actually magnetize a couple 3x3s. Yeah, I bought the magnets but then never found the time to use them 

Regarding going back to non-magnetic cubes I still like their feeling a bit more but I'm undeniably more consistent with magnetic ones. But I fully agree in hating M slices with the mass-produced GTS2M. I can do M-based PLLs so much faster with a regular GTS2... Not sure if Cubicle's "lite" versions are a good enough trade-off for M slices. Or even good for OH? That'd be awesome.


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## Jason Green (Sep 30, 2017)

mafergut said:


> Thanks for the advice. Then I will not complain about bad quality control by Moyu and will assume that's the way it is with magnetic 3x3s. Anyway, it didn't take that much time to locate the piece with the loose magnets and glue them back. In fact I found it so easy I might end up using those 100 magnets I have lying around to actually magnetize a couple 3x3s. Yeah, I bought the magnets but then never found the time to use them
> 
> Regarding going back to non-magnetic cubes I still like their feeling a bit more but I'm undeniably more consistent with magnetic ones. But I fully agree in hating M slices with the mass-produced GTS2M. I can do M-based PLLs so much faster with a regular GTS2... Not sure if Cubicle's "lite" versions are a good enough trade-off for M slices. Or even good for OH? That'd be awesome.


I use my Valk M for OH too. I like it, M slices seem pretty good although I'm not fast at those anyway.


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## mafergut (Sep 30, 2017)

Jason Green said:


> I use my Valk M for OH too. I like it, M slices seem pretty good although I'm not fast at those anyway.


My problem with the GTS2M (I'll not say with magnetic cubes in general as I only have this one) is not with M slices, as I do not use M-slice algs in OH. In this case the problem is generally turning the cube. That initial effort to get the movement started that with two hands is like nothing, is very noticeable in OH so I get tired more easily and my fingers can also slip and not turn the layer more frequently. So maybe some weaker magnets would be better both for 2H M slices and OH turning in general. How much weaker without losing also the improved stability the magnets are supposed to give? I cannot say.


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## newtonbase (Sep 30, 2017)

pglewis said:


> I realized last week that I've been doing something really dumb for 3bld: memo-ing edges, memo-ing corners _then solving edges_. Starting with corner execution first obviously means I don't have to embed the corner memo so deeply and can cut up to 2 mins off my memo.
> 
> I think this puts me in the 4-6 min range. I say "I think" because I've hit a spell where I'm getting ~0% success rate. At least I've been failing with variety:
> 
> ...


I believe that you are correct when you memo piece types in the inverse order that you execute but I would switch them and memo corners then edges and execute edges then corners. You are able to audio memo edges very quickly.
Also, switching red and orange or other opposite colours is normal and will be fixed with practice. It might also help to try to identify corners from seeing just 2 colours.
Next, if a pair like "fighter jet" doesn't work then either scrap it for something better or identify it as a weak pair so you know not to confuse it next time. (I use fudge for FJ and Jeff for JF. They can't be confused).


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## pglewis (Sep 30, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> I believe that you are correct when you memo piece types in the inverse order that you execute but I would switch them and memo corners then edges and execute edges then corners. You are able to audio memo edges very quickly.



It's an embarrassing admission already... and then I immediately realized what you're saying after I posted. I haven't attempted any audio memo yet but it still makes more sense not to have to embed the longer edge memo as deeply. If I can just get over this phase of silly mistakes, been a few days without a success. 



newtonbase said:


> [...] if a pair like "fighter jet" doesn't work then either scrap it for something better or identify it as a weak pair so you know not to confuse it next time. (I use fudge for FJ and Jeff for JF. They can't be confused).



Yeah, I even had both images for both pairs; yanked 'em out of there so it won't happen again. That one was a rare aberration.


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## Jason Green (Sep 30, 2017)

mafergut said:


> My problem with the GTS2M (I'll not say with magnetic cubes in general as I only have this one) is not with M slices, as I do not use M-slice algs in OH. In this case the problem is generally turning the cube. That initial effort to get the movement started that with two hands is like nothing, is very noticeable in OH so I get tired more easily and my fingers can also slip and not turn the layer more frequently. So maybe some weaker magnets would be better both for 2H M slices and OH turning in general. How much weaker without losing also the improved stability the magnets are supposed to give? I cannot say.


Yeah I mixed topics sorry, I was talking about M slices for 2H. I don't use them either for OH.


----------



## openseas (Oct 1, 2017)

A brief update on DIY magnetizing:

While trying to find a different approach, I attached magnets to the centers and edges, not corners.
Basically, every center piece has 4 magnets, every edge piece has two magnets. 

The major difference between this approach vs conventional (edge and corner magnetized) is smaller radius from the magnets point of view. Just imagine the circle each magnet can draw when you turn your cube, magnets at corner/edge can make a bigger circle compared to magnets at center/edge combination. Thus, you need a little bit less force to turn your cube (~ feel weaker strength from the magnet of the same size compared to edge/corner location). 

I wanted to find a combination of stable feel from magnets but not so strong resistance for M slice. I like this better for M slice.

Another advantage, if you want to duplicate the work (= making many more magnetized cubes, for like, MBLD), it is much easier to do than edge/corner combination. Once you have a magnetized cube, you can put magnetized edge pieces into the new cube (assemble all the way) and magnetize the center all at once. Same goes for the new edges - you need to do twice (two piece of plastic making one edge piece).

Trying to apply similar method to 4x4 as well once I receive new magnets (smaller).


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## newtonbase (Oct 1, 2017)

openseas said:


> A brief update on DIY magnetizing:
> 
> While trying to find a different approach, I attached magnets to the centers and edges, not corners.
> Basically, every center piece has 4 magnets, every edge piece has two magnets.
> ...


Very interesting. What cube and what magnets did you use?


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## openseas (Oct 1, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> Very interesting. What cube and what magnets did you use?



MF3RS, N35, 5x1


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## mark49152 (Oct 2, 2017)

Hey Grzegorz @h2f - have you tried any 6BLD attempts recently? I still have not been able to solve obliques successfully.


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## h2f (Oct 2, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> Hey Grzegorz @h2f - have you tried any 6BLD attempts recently? I still have not been able to solve obliques successfully.



6bld is still in my head but I haven't tried it. Obliques seem hard to me. I thought I may try 7bld to get used to their easier version because there's x-center between them. I think I may try it after the competiotion I have in 3 weeks. I'm preparing to 3bld - first time since March I practice to get better in it. In June I had 2:08 and I dont want it more.


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## megagoune (Oct 2, 2017)

Look-ahead. I think I finally start to understand it 
I really need to slow down *a lot* to be able to find and track the next pieces while solving a pair. I think it never clicked before how much I needed to slow down. To practice, I now try to turn slow enough to see the pieces moving and follow them around (and not just glimpse at them flying by, hoping for the best).
The most surprising is how fast my times are when I turn super slowly during F2L... I think by finally realizing this, I can now practice my look-ahead and improve F2L stage.
Anyone relate to this experience?


----------



## mark49152 (Oct 2, 2017)

h2f said:


> 6bld is still in my head but I haven't tried it. Obliques seem hard to me.


They sure are. I can't even do them sighted without mistakes.


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## Jason Green (Oct 3, 2017)

megagoune said:


> Look-ahead. I think I finally start to understand it
> I really need to slow down *a lot* to be able to find and track the next pieces while solving a pair. I think it never clicked before how much I needed to slow down. To practice, I now try to turn slow enough to see the pieces moving and follow them around (and not just glimpse at them flying by, hoping for the best).
> The most surprising is how fast my times are when I turn super slowly during F2L... I think by finally realizing this, I can now practice my look-ahead and improve F2L stage.
> Anyone relate to this experience?


Definitely! For me it seems I get about the same times if I try to go slower or faster. I find the best is to find a balance, so I'm going fast enough to push my look ahead without losing it completely. If I go too slow my bad times are really bad. I do more slow untimed solves than I used to though, and play around with bad F2L cases and see what I can find. 



mark49152 said:


> They sure are. I can't even do them sighted without mistakes.


Mental note, never try 6 BLD! 

I really am enjoying the Anki app, it's quite good for drilling letter pairs it seems!


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## One Wheel (Oct 3, 2017)

I finally learned the "long" M2 algs today. Now I just need to settle whether I'm using DF or FD as my buffer, and then get practicing.

Is the best way to deal with shooting the wrong sticker on UB to just shoot there, finish the rest of edge execution, and then flip the DF and UB pieces?


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## newtonbase (Oct 3, 2017)

One Wheel said:


> I finally learned the "long" M2 algs today. Now I just need to settle whether I'm using DF or FD as my buffer, and then get practicing.
> 
> Is the best way to deal with shooting the wrong sticker on UB to just shoot there, finish the rest of edge execution, and then flip the DF and UB pieces?


The best alg for flipping the DF and UB pieces is only a single move different to the one that shoots to BU
Flip DF and UB pieces is 
(U M')x3 U M (U M')x3 U M
Shoot to BU is (U M')x3 U M (U M')x4
Switch U with U" if you prefer. (I do).


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## One Wheel (Oct 3, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> The best alg for flipping the DF and UB pieces is only a single move different to the one that shoots to BU
> Flip DF and UB pieces is
> (U M')x3 U M (U M')x3 U M
> Shoot to BU is (U M')x3 U M (U M')x4
> Switch U with U" if you prefer. (I do).


 That makes sense once I try it. I was shooting UB with just M2, and then flipping UB and UF with M' U M' U M' U2 M U M U M U2, or flipping UB and DF with the same algorithm and an F2 setup move. I like your way better.


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## newtonbase (Oct 3, 2017)

To flip UF and UB I prefer M' U' M' U' M' U' M' U2 M' U' M' U' M' U' M'. It's the first flipping alg I learned. I used to use an F2 set up for UB and DF too.
There are small variations on the alg to flip the buffer with UL or UB and another that just flips all the U face edges. I also use one with D moves for DF and DB but it's easier to just learn a couple and do setups for now. They can be easy to confuse.


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## openseas (Oct 3, 2017)

One Wheel said:


> That makes sense once I try it. I was shooting UB with just M2, and then flipping UB and UF with M' U M' U M' U2 M U M U M U2, or flipping UB and DF with the same algorithm and an F2 setup move. I like your way better.



For flipping, this is exactly the same but easier and much faster since using only M' no M : (M' U)X3 M' U2 (M' U)X3 M'.

Oh, just realized that @newtonbase wrote the same alg. And I also use the same alg for BU target as him.


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## h2f (Oct 3, 2017)

One Wheel said:


> Is the best way to deal with shooting the wrong sticker on UB to just shoot there, finish the rest of edge execution, and then flip the DF and UB pieces?



It's good to do flips when you finish doing unsolved edges. 


openseas said:


> (M' U)X3 M' U2 (M' U)X3 M'.


This is not center safe and dont work well on big cubes like 5bld.


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## pglewis (Oct 3, 2017)

megagoune said:


> Look-ahead. I think I finally start to understand it
> I really need to slow down *a lot* to be able to find and track the next pieces while solving a pair. I think it never clicked before how much I needed to slow down. To practice, I now try to turn slow enough to see the pieces moving and follow them around (and not just glimpse at them flying by, hoping for the best).
> The most surprising is how fast my times are when I turn super slowly during F2L... I think by finally realizing this, I can now practice my look-ahead and improve F2L stage.
> Anyone relate to this experience?



Yes... but it's not _quite_ that simple for me. I often find myself surprised at my times while slow-turning pairs and I definitely notice when I'm solving pairs fast I can easily get into "burst mode" with those dreaded pauses between quick pairs. But I do still have to change gears and execute the last layer quickly which I find tricky after slow-turning through F2L. It also still seems to hinge on me being in "a groove", slow solving pairs isn't a guarantee. Like Jason said, it's somewhat of a balance to be reached for me. 

I'll be doing a LOT of slow solves for a while though, between breaking my F2L recog with new ways of dealing with some pairs and breaking my OLL recog with a bunch of new algs


----------



## megagoune (Oct 3, 2017)

pglewis said:


> Yes... but it's not _quite_ that simple for me. I often find myself surprised at my times while slow-turning pairs and I definitely notice when I'm solving pairs fast I can easily get into "burst mode" with those dreaded pauses between quick pairs. But I do still have to change gears and execute the last layer quickly which I find tricky after slow-turning through F2L. It also still seems to hinge on me being in "a groove", slow solving pairs isn't a guarantee. Like Jason said, it's somewhat of a balance to be reached for me.
> 
> I'll be doing a LOT of slow solves for a while though, between breaking my F2L recog with new ways of dealing with some pairs and breaking my OLL recog with a bunch of new algs



I also find that sometimes I forget to speed up for the end of the solve when slow turning during F2L.
I need to consciously think, "it's the last pair, go!"
You mention changing gears for the last layer. Do you mean after 3 pairs, or do you try to look-ahead the OLL by slowing the solving of the last pair?


----------



## pglewis (Oct 3, 2017)

megagoune said:


> You mention changing gears for the last layer. Do you mean after 3 pairs, or do you try to look-ahead the OLL by slowing the solving of the last pair?



Mostly just changing gears to turning faster, it's very easy for my LL to be 2-3 seconds slower on TPS alone now. 

I try to look ahead everywhere: first pair after the cross, looking into OLL including trying to pay more attention to the orientation of the last edge I'm about to bring out, looking ahead into PLL including paying closer attention to what the final AUF should be. "Try" is the operative word though. I like the adage of "turn fast when you know what you're doing, slow down when you don't", I just need to remember it more often.


----------



## openseas (Oct 3, 2017)

h2f said:


> This is not center safe and dont work well on big cubes like 5bld.



Yes, most of M-U moves are not compatible with big cubes BLDs.


----------



## mark49152 (Oct 3, 2017)

openseas said:


> Yes, most of M-U moves are not compatible with big cubes BLDs.


Some are though and it's good to know which ones. I also prefer (M' U)X3 M' U2 (M' U)X3 M' in 3BLD because I prefer M' moves, but use M' U M' U M' U2 M U M U M U2 in 5BLD. That's fine because in 5BLD my slices are done like Rw R' anyway, so M moves aren't so inconvenient.


----------



## Jason Green (Oct 4, 2017)

BTW I figured out with AnkiDroid you can sync with your Anki account! It's not totally intuitive, I just pulled down on the screen like refreshing chrome and it prompted me to login. Then I noticed there's a sync icon in the corner too but I hadn't paid attention to it.


----------



## h2f (Oct 4, 2017)

openseas said:


> Yes, most of M-U moves are not compatible with big cubes BLDs.



I think this is not correct in this version. Many of my 3style algs are based on M/M' - U/U', m/m' - U/U', r'/r - U/U' etc. And they work as well on big cubes. If you talk about M'/M - U/U' moves only there are also some algs which work on big cubes and some dont. It's more like - some work on big cubes, some dont. And there must some kind of rule behind it.



mark49152 said:


> Some are though and it's good to know which ones. I also prefer (M' U)X3 M' U2 (M' U)X3 M' in 3BLD because I prefer M' moves, but use M' U M' U M' U2 M U M U M U2 in 5BLD. That's fine because in 5BLD my slices are done like Rw R' anyway, so M moves aren't so inconvenient.



Add me in. How's your obliques?


----------



## mark49152 (Oct 4, 2017)

h2f said:


> It's more like - some work on big cubes, some dont. And there must some kind of rule behind it.


I don't know about a rule, but it's fairly easy to see what happens to the centres by trying on a solved cube. If you take a simple example like M' U2 M U2 you can see that the middle line gets taken out of the centre then restored the other way round after the U2. The flipping alg discussed above is similar because it also takes the form s U2 s' U2.

Which raises another important point. There are really three categories: algs that mess up centres, algs that are truly centre safe, and algs that are centre safe only after centres are solved. The flipping alg falls into the latter category. It does actually rearrange the centres, but keeping the pieces on the same faces, so it's OK as long as centres are solved. Just don't flip your edges before you solve your centres .



h2f said:


> How's your obliques?


My obliques suck


----------



## h2f (Oct 4, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> Which raises another important point. There are really three categories: algs that mess up centres, algs that are truly centre safe, and algs that are centre safe only after centres are solved. The flipping alg falls into the latter category. It does actually rearrange the centres, but keeping the pieces on the same faces, so it's OK as long as centres are solved. Just don't flip your edges before you solve your centres .



Yeah, that's the point. 


mark49152 said:


> My obliques suck



I've hoped you've figured them out.


----------



## JohnnyReggae (Oct 5, 2017)

The next Cape Town competition has been announced ... https://www.worldcubeassociation.org/competitions/SpeedcubesCapeTown2017

This will be my 2nd as a Delegate and my first as sole Delegate. To be honest I feel a little nervous about being the sole delegate. In the previous competition I had a more experienced Delegate assist, and this time the buck stops with me so to speak. I'm looking forward to taking the reigns but I also want to do a good job with it ... so hence the nerves


----------



## mitja (Oct 5, 2017)

JohnnyReggae said:


> The next Cape Town competition has been announced ... https://www.worldcubeassociation.org/competitions/SpeedcubesCapeTown2017
> 
> This will be my 2nd as a Delegate and my first as sole Delegate. To be honest I feel a little nervous about being the sole delegate. In the previous competition I had a more experienced Delegate assist, and this time the buck stops with me so to speak. I'm looking forward to taking the reigns but I also want to do a good job with it ... so hence the nerves


Hi, Capetown-er. I was there just in august. I wish you a good comp.


----------



## mitja (Oct 5, 2017)

Well fellow oldies, how about some history. My first competition was in 1981-1982. I stopped cubing after that and last two years i try to get back, joining my youngest daughter at some competitions.
At that time there where some of us guys using the F2L method. I have the old instructions from slovenian magazine Telex 1981 at home but could never find the author. I finally got in touch with him yesterday. It turned out it was the guy who won this 1982 only competition in former Yugoslavia.
He invented the F2L method by himself and wrote the computer software to solve his last layer( including Niklas alg).
Why is this important to me? Well, the only competitor that was well known using F2L at that time was Guus Razoux Schultz who came second at worlds 1982.
So this would be the first published F2L method you can find it.here:http://www.rubik.si/klub/podatki/info/teleks81.pdf
The author I am talking about is Dr. Rok Sosič now very succesfull computer engineer and founder of many computer software companies in USA and Australia.


----------



## h2f (Oct 5, 2017)

mitja said:


> Hi, Capetown-er. I was there just in august. I wish you a good comp.



Good Luck.


----------



## Jason Green (Oct 5, 2017)

JohnnyReggae said:


> The next Cape Town competition has been announced ... https://www.worldcubeassociation.org/competitions/SpeedcubesCapeTown2017
> 
> This will be my 2nd as a Delegate and my first as sole Delegate. To be honest I feel a little nervous about being the sole delegate. In the previous competition I had a more experienced Delegate assist, and this time the buck stops with me so to speak. I'm looking forward to taking the reigns but I also want to do a good job with it ... so hence the nerves


A little nerves is probably exactly what you need.  You'll do great! Good luck.


----------



## Lid (Oct 6, 2017)

A good week for 4x4 ... PB single and a12:
*47.499* : L2 u2 f' F' R' r u r2 B2 D L' B2 L2 U2 R' U R L D2 u' r' L2 B' R' D' R' F R2 F2 L2 f' L2 r2 R2 u' L D' R' D' F2
and
(48.039), 58.640, 1:00.134, 59.102, 57.221, (1:06.758), 58.239, 59.716, 1:02.770, 1:05.741, 54.314, 1:00.893 = *59.677*

That brings the total sub50s to 5 for me.

Now I need to practice more 5x5 to get sub2 a12 on it.


----------



## NewbieCuber (Oct 7, 2017)

GOT IT!

I finally got a sub 1 minute average of 5 with 57.25 and an avg of 12 of 1.02.01. AND a new PB of 49.09. It's all coming down to a faster cross and F2L. I know this is slow as a competitive time but for 4 months in I feel great about it.

************

Just followed it up with another PB of 47.90


----------



## openseas (Oct 7, 2017)

Just finished my first time ever sighted 5BLD solve (didn't even time but 20min-ish) without any knowledge of 5BLD.

Looks like no new algs required but just a little bit of adjustment of u2/r2/M2.
Turning sucks though - I used Dylan's new Wushuang M - I guess this is one of the top of the line.

Will try more sighted during this comp (Maryland comp)


----------



## Jason Green (Oct 8, 2017)

@mark49152 did you see this?


----------



## mark49152 (Oct 8, 2017)

@Jason Green : I saw that, yes. A well deserved win by Ben


----------



## muchacho (Oct 8, 2017)

Mo100 PB: 17.885 (old was 18.080 from 2 weeks ago)



Spoiler



55560 07-oct-2017 17:02:34 00:17.103 L2 U R2 D2 U F2 U R2 U2 L2 U F' L2 B R' U' L D R' L2 B' U2
55559 07-oct-2017 17:01:55 00:16.894 F2 U B2 D' R2 U' F2 U F2 U' F2 R L D2 F' D' B U' L2 U L D'
55558 07-oct-2017 17:01:23 00:18.030 L2 U2 B2 R2 F2 L2 F2 U' R2 L2 U2 F R' D L F L B2 F2 R2 B'
55557 07-oct-2017 17:00:51 00:12.753 L2 U B2 F2 U' L2 U B2 R2 U F U F' D2 B' R L U R2 U'
55556 07-oct-2017 16:59:57 00:16.607 R2 B2 L2 D L2 B2 D2 B2 U B2 D' L D' B D R2 L' U' L D2 F'
55555 07-oct-2017 16:59:14 00:18.007 F2 U2 R2 L2 U L2 D B2 D' U2 L2 F L' U' R U' B D L2 B' R D
55554 07-oct-2017 16:58:37 00:17.774 U F2 U' L2 U B2 R2 D L2 U2 B R' F U B2 D' U' B L2 B2 D'
55553 07-oct-2017 16:57:57 00:18.655 B2 D F2 L2 F2 U2 B2 D' R2 L2 D R D2 B2 F' L' D' B2 L U R' D2
55552 07-oct-2017 16:57:14 00:22.807 D' B2 D2 R2 B2 R2 L2 U' L2 B2 U2 B U R B2 F U L U2 R' L2 D'
55551 07-oct-2017 16:56:40 00:14.887 B2 U' L2 U' R2 L2 U' F2 U F2 L2 B' L2 F U' B' R B' R' D2 R'
55550 07-oct-2017 16:56:04 00:16.350 D2 L2 U2 R2 D' F2 D F2 R2 D' L' B R F2 L' F2 R2 F U' R L U2
55549 07-oct-2017 16:55:24 00:17.511 L2 D' R2 D R2 U' R2 D2 L2 B2 D2 F' U' R D2 U2 B F' R2 D'
55548 07-oct-2017 16:54:49 00:19.031 D L2 U2 B2 U' R2 U2 R2 F2 U' R2 F U2 R' U2 L' U' B' F' R2 F D
55547 07-oct-2017 16:54:03 00:29.407 L2 D2 L2 D F2 D R2 D F2 L2 B' R U B L' F2 D' F D' R'
55546 07-oct-2017 16:53:24 00:17.590 U' R2 F2 D' F2 D' R2 F2 D' B2 L2 B' D L' B D B L' D F2
55545 07-oct-2017 16:52:45 00:15.856 D B2 U R2 D' U' B2 R2 U F2 R2 B R' L2 U B' R B' U' R' F' D'
55544 07-oct-2017 16:52:10 00:16.711 D' B2 D2 B2 R2 B2 U2 R2 D' U2 R2 F' L2 D' L D2 R' B D' R' D'
55543 07-oct-2017 16:51:34 00:19.246 L2 F2 R2 L2 D' U2 B2 D2 U' F2 R2 B L2 F D' R D' L D2 U2 F'
55542 07-oct-2017 16:51:01 00:16.007 B2 D B2 D' B2 U2 F2 U B2 L2 B' R' B F' D2 U' R D' B' L' U
55541 07-oct-2017 16:50:25 00:19.214 D2 F2 R2 U' L2 D2 F2 L2 D U' R D' B' F' L' U2 L2 D' R2 L' U2
55540 07-oct-2017 16:49:27 00:22.704 D2 L2 D' B2 U2 L2 F2 D' F2 U' R' B L2 D' B D R' B' D U'
55539 07-oct-2017 16:48:51 00:14.552 R2 D' R2 U F2 L2 U L2 U2 R2 L2 B R L2 F L F D' R2 F2 L'
55538 07-oct-2017 16:48:16 00:16.478 U2 B2 L2 B2 U R2 L2 U2 B2 U' B2 R' D2 B D2 R' B D L' U R'
55537 07-oct-2017 16:47:38 00:18.511 R2 D2 F2 R2 D' F2 L2 F2 D2 B2 U' R' D2 B' D F' U2 B D' L' D U
55536 07-oct-2017 16:46:58 00:20.479 D B2 F2 D L2 D R2 D L2 B2 D' R' L' U B' L U2 R B' L
55535 07-oct-2017 16:46:14 00:21.893 U B2 D R2 U' R2 D2 R2 U' F2 U F' D U R' U2 F2 D' F' R2 L2
55534 07-oct-2017 16:45:37 00:16.854 R2 F2 U2 R2 U F2 U L2 U' R2 F R F2 L' U2 F2 L F U' B'
55533 07-oct-2017 16:45:03 00:15.391 U2 R2 L2 F2 U' L2 B2 F2 U R2 F L2 U2 B' L' U2 F' U' B D U'
55532 07-oct-2017 16:44:31 00:16.046 R2 B2 R2 L2 D2 U R2 D L2 B2 U L' U' B' F D F' R2 D2 R F'
55531 07-oct-2017 16:43:28 00:14.568 B2 R2 U2 F2 U' R2 U F2 D' B2 D' B' U' R D B' U' R' F' D2 R D
55530 07-oct-2017 16:42:52 00:21.286 U2 F2 R2 U2 B2 D' L2 U R2 U2 B2 L' B' D2 U' R' L U2 B U2 L2 U
55529 07-oct-2017 16:42:08 00:23.071 L2 B2 U2 R2 F2 D' R2 U2 B2 D B2 R' D2 B U L U2 B F D' F' D2
55528 07-oct-2017 16:41:27 00:18.351 D F2 R2 B2 D R2 D2 U F2 R2 U' B D' F L D' L2 F' R' U' L2 U2
55527 07-oct-2017 16:40:50 00:19.815 U B2 D B2 D' R2 U2 B2 D' B2 L2 F' L2 B L' F L2 D' R2 F' L2
55526 07-oct-2017 16:40:03 00:28.238 F2 R2 D2 F2 D2 U F2 D B2 R2 D B' F U B2 D F' L' B2 U2 L2
55525 07-oct-2017 16:39:27 00:18.192 U' R2 B2 L2 B2 U F2 L2 D2 R2 U L' F2 R' D2 L F U R B2 D
55524 07-oct-2017 16:38:45 00:21.166 D' L2 D2 R2 F2 D' L2 F2 U' L2 F2 R D' U L' B' D L2 D R' B U2
55523 07-oct-2017 16:38:11 00:18.767 F2 U' R2 D B2 D' F2 R2 F2 D2 L U F' R2 D' R F' D2 R' U'
55522 07-oct-2017 16:37:37 00:19.022 D' L2 D U2 R2 U2 R2 F2 L2 D B2 L D R D' R U2 R' B D2 R2 U'
55521 07-oct-2017 16:36:57 00:17.319 F2 U2 R2 D' B2 F2 U' R2 B2 L2 F2 L U' R L F2 D2 F2 D B' D U'
55520 07-oct-2017 16:36:17 00:20.591 U B2 D R2 F2 D2 F2 D' R2 B2 L2 B' L B2 L2 F2 U F R B D2 L'
55519 07-oct-2017 16:35:47 00:11.447 D' R2 B2 D F2 R2 D2 R2 U B2 D' F U L F L U' R2 U' F' D' L'
55518 07-oct-2017 16:35:14 00:15.448 U' F2 D L2 F2 D L2 F2 U2 B2 U2 R' B U F' L D2 R2 B2 R' F2 U'
55517 07-oct-2017 16:34:32 00:18.624 L2 F2 L2 D F2 L2 D L2 B2 D B2 L B F' R2 D2 F L' B' F R D
55516 07-oct-2017 16:33:33 00:16.103 D2 F2 U' B2 U2 R2 D2 R2 B2 R' F' R2 L2 U' L' B D2 U B
55515 07-oct-2017 16:32:59 00:15.015 D B2 F2 U' R2 L2 B2 R2 U' L2 U2 R U2 L2 F2 U' F' D' B' F2 R U'
55514 07-oct-2017 16:32:26 00:15.919 D' F2 U' F2 L2 U2 F2 R2 U F2 D' R' D' U L' B2 L' U2 B R L2 D2
55513 07-oct-2017 16:31:51 00:15.562 U F2 L2 F2 R2 F2 U2 R2 D' B2 D' R' D' F' U' B2 D B' R2 L B2 U'
55512 07-oct-2017 16:31:17 00:16.118 U B2 F2 R2 D B2 F2 D2 R2 L2 F2 R' F R U' B' R2 D2 R2 D' U'
55511 07-oct-2017 16:30:36 00:18.126 B2 U R2 D U2 B2 R2 U2 R2 F2 U' L F D R B D2 U' L2 F' U2
55510 07-oct-2017 16:29:58 00:20.071 B2 R2 F2 D R2 B2 D L2 F2 L2 D L F U2 R' L2 B2 L2 U' L2 F' R'
55509 07-oct-2017 16:29:21 00:19.302 R2 U B2 D' F2 U' L2 B2 R2 F2 D' F' R B2 R2 D' U L2 B L' F' L2
55508 07-oct-2017 16:28:44 00:18.567 F2 R2 D' U2 R2 D B2 F2 L2 F2 U' B D2 U R' D' U2 L B L' F' L'
55507 07-oct-2017 16:28:11 00:13.711 F2 L2 D2 B2 D' B2 L2 D F2 U' R U' B D' L2 U' R' F D2 U'
55506 07-oct-2017 16:27:07 00:17.879 F2 D' R2 B2 U2 B2 D2 R2 U' F2 U' F' U2 F L' U' R' D' B' U R' D
55505 07-oct-2017 16:26:35 00:14.064 D2 B2 U B2 R2 U' B2 D' F2 L2 U F U' L D2 L2 D F R U2 F' U2
55504 07-oct-2017 16:25:52 00:18.359 U' R2 U L2 F2 R2 U' R2 D' R2 D2 R' L2 B' F2 L D' R U2 B' R' F
55503 07-oct-2017 16:25:17 00:18.448 R2 D2 F2 D2 L2 F2 R2 F2 D2 U F2 L' R2 U B U2 F' R' F' D' L2 U2
55502 07-oct-2017 16:24:40 00:18.783 L2 F2 U' R2 L2 B2 D2 L2 U L2 D R F' D2 B2 L2 U2 F' L D
55501 07-oct-2017 16:24:00 00:21.175 U' B2 U' F2 U B2 F2 U2 F2 U' R L' U' B R' U' F' R U B2 D U2
55500 07-oct-2017 16:23:26 00:17.009 B2 D L2 U' F2 D' B2 U F2 L2 U' B R D2 B' D' L' U' B F' D'
55499 07-oct-2017 16:22:47 00:20.894 B2 D F2 R2 D' L2 B2 D2 U' B2 D R' U L F' U B' U2 R' B' U2
55498 07-oct-2017 16:22:09 00:18.159 F2 R2 F2 D' R2 B2 D' B2 L2 U R2 F L D F U' B F U R' L' U
55497 07-oct-2017 16:21:32 00:15.830 B2 R2 D2 L2 U B2 L2 D F2 L2 U2 R U B2 F' U' F L D' L2
55496 07-oct-2017 16:20:56 00:17.487 D' R2 B2 D2 L2 F2 L2 F2 L2 D' L' U' F U' L B' F2 D U
55495 07-oct-2017 16:20:18 00:21.102 L2 D F2 D F2 L2 U' F2 U L2 U2 F' U' B2 L' U' R' F R L' D2
55494 07-oct-2017 16:19:39 00:19.639 L2 D B2 D R2 D' B2 D2 L2 F2 U2 F' R' D2 L' F' U2 B R2 U' L U'
55493 07-oct-2017 16:19:03 00:14.710 D' L2 D B2 D' B2 L2 U2 L2 U' F2 R U' B R2 L2 U2 B' F' D' R' U2
55492 07-oct-2017 16:18:29 00:16.192 L2 U2 R2 B2 L2 D B2 D' F2 R2 D2 R' U' L2 F' U L B D L2 F'
55491 07-oct-2017 16:17:51 00:19.829 B2 U2 F2 U' F2 D R2 B2 L2 U' B2 R' B' U2 F2 R2 L B2 F U R
55490 07-oct-2017 16:17:14 00:17.062 D R2 D' L2 B2 L2 F2 D B2 L2 D2 R' L' D F' L D' F' R' B F' U2
55489 07-oct-2017 16:16:34 00:15.943 B2 L2 B2 L2 D' L2 D2 L2 F2 D L2 B' L D2 R U2 L2 F' R D U
55488 07-oct-2017 16:16:03 00:13.312 B2 D B2 D' U L2 B2 U L2 U' F2 R' D B' L' D' B2 F2 U' B' L' D'
55487 07-oct-2017 16:15:23 00:18.671 U B2 U' F2 L2 D L2 B2 U F' U R D U2 R2 F' L U2 B2
55486 07-oct-2017 16:14:44 00:19.808 L2 B2 D R2 B2 U L2 U R2 D U2 F' R' U R' D' L' D' F R B' D'
55485 07-oct-2017 16:13:50 00:16.167 B2 L2 U2 F2 D' R2 D L2 D' B2 D F' U' L D' R L F2 D2 F L U
55484 07-oct-2017 16:13:12 00:17.128 R2 D2 U' F2 L2 D' R2 B2 R2 B2 D2 R' L' U' B R B' R F2 U2 L'
55483 07-oct-2017 16:12:39 00:15.799 U L2 U' L2 B2 D' L2 D F' L' U L B2 R D' F2 L2 D
55482 07-oct-2017 16:12:03 00:19.326 U B2 F2 L2 D' R2 U R2 B2 F2 D' L' B2 L2 F U2 R D2 F' D R
55481 07-oct-2017 16:11:23 00:21.982 R2 D2 F2 L2 U L2 D U2 B2 F2 U' F L2 B R B2 R U L F D'
55480 07-oct-2017 16:10:45 00:18.344 U2 L2 U' F2 D R2 L2 B2 D' B2 R2 B' R B2 D' U' R2 B D2 L2 U' F2
55479 07-oct-2017 16:10:10 00:15.887 D2 B2 R2 D2 B2 U' L2 U' B2 F2 L2 B D R' L D B' U2 F U L
55478 07-oct-2017 16:09:33 00:18.600 D' L2 D U2 B2 R2 F2 U' F2 U' L2 F' R2 L' D B2 U' R2 B2 D2 B' D2
55477 07-oct-2017 16:08:55 00:16.400 R2 L2 B2 R2 L2 D B2 D' U' L2 D F' L' F2 R' L U' L' F2 D2 R' D'
55476 07-oct-2017 16:08:15 00:16.359 F2 U B2 D L2 U2 L2 D L2 F2 U2 R' U R' B R2 F' L2 U' L U'
55475 07-oct-2017 16:07:37 00:16.743 R2 U B2 D' R2 U' L2 B2 U2 B2 D R' L' D U2 B L2 U2 F2 D F
55474 07-oct-2017 16:06:59 00:17.533 D F2 D2 F2 L2 U B2 F2 U2 R2 F2 L' F2 U' B D' B F2 D2 F R
55473 07-oct-2017 16:06:23 00:14.823 B2 D B2 U' F2 L2 D' F2 U F2 D2 F' U' R' D B R' U' R2 B2 F2
55472 07-oct-2017 16:05:50 00:16.342 D2 R2 U' F2 L2 F2 L2 D2 U F2 U2 B D U' B' L2 D R' B U' L'
55471 07-oct-2017 16:05:14 00:16.567 U B2 D F2 R2 D B2 F2 R2 L2 D2 B R2 L D R2 D' R D B D2 R
55470 07-oct-2017 16:04:30 00:21.670 D2 L2 F2 D' B2 F2 D2 F2 U' B2 L2 B L' F2 D L2 B' D' L2 U2 B' L
55469 07-oct-2017 16:03:54 00:16.494 D2 F2 U2 B2 D' B2 R2 U F2 U' R2 B' L' U' R L2 D' B' U R' U'
55468 07-oct-2017 16:03:12 00:21.910 D2 R2 L2 U F2 R2 D F2 U2 R2 D2 B' L2 U' L B2 D' B' U R' D'
55467 07-oct-2017 16:02:32 00:15.719 R2 F2 U B2 L2 U F2 R2 F2 U2 B2 L' B' U' L' F' U2 R' U F' D
55466 07-oct-2017 16:01:57 00:17.334 R2 U' F2 R2 F2 D' F2 L2 U R2 U' B R2 F' L' B D B' R' D' F2
55465 07-oct-2017 16:01:13 00:18.079 F2 D2 B2 U' F2 D R2 U L2 B2 U' R' U B R' L' F2 L' B' D' B'
55464 07-oct-2017 16:00:35 00:18.696 D' R2 U2 B2 R2 U' R2 F2 U' L2 U' F' U L' F U2 B' F D' B' L' U'
55463 07-oct-2017 15:59:57 00:14.638 R2 B2 U L2 D' B2 D L2 B' L' F' L B U' L2 U2 F' U'
55462 07-oct-2017 12:12:34 00:15.880 L2 U B2 L2 F2 D2 R2 U2 F2 L2 U B' U L' U' F' L F' R2
55461 07-oct-2017 12:11:52 00:18.055 U' R2 F2 D F2 D L2 F2 L2 D2 F' R' U' B U2 L' F' U' F2



And I've got up to 55000 timed solves, barely improving.


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## Fyzzna (Oct 8, 2017)

Breaking PBs like crazy today 

ao5: 13.97 -> 13.62
ao50: 16.17 -> 15.68
ao100: 16.47 -> 15.84

ao5 splits (could've been even better but I messed up two solves) :


Spoiler



1. 12.72 D2 R2 U2 F2 D2 L' B2 L' F2 L' R' U' L' F2 U B D2 F2 L F R
2. (17.23) R2 D2 R2 D2 U2 B D2 R2 B' R2 B D' U' F' D' B' U' B' L' B'
3. 12.17 B2 D' R2 D2 B2 U R2 U' B2 L2 U2 B D F2 L' U' B' L' U2 R2 B2
4. (11.72) B2 D2 B' D2 F U2 B' D2 U2 R2 F D' B F2 U B' F L2 F' R
5. 15.97 D R2 D2 R2 B2 L2 F2 U L2 D' F R' U L2 B R2 B2 D' L D


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## NewbieCuber (Oct 9, 2017)

NewbieCuber said:


> GOT IT!
> 
> I finally got a sub 1 minute average of 5 with 57.25 and an avg of 12 of 1.02.01. AND a new PB of 49.09. It's all coming down to a faster cross and F2L. I know this is slow as a competitive time but for 4 months in I feel great about it.
> 
> ...



All of a sudden, after 4 months of cubing and weeks of being stuck at 1:05 to 1:20 I'm now getting consistent sub 1 minute solves. My personal best keeps moving daily, today it's down to 44.70

It's amazing that after tons of of practice nothing was changing. And then all of a sudden I seem to have made some sort of mental leap which has shaved 10 seconds off of my times.


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## pglewis (Oct 9, 2017)

NewbieCuber said:


> All of a sudden, after 4 months of cubing and weeks of being stuck at 1:05 to 1:20 I'm now getting consistent sub 1 minute solves. My personal best keeps moving daily, today it's down to 44.70
> 
> It's amazing that after tons of of practice nothing was changing. And then all of a sudden I seem to have made some sort of mental leap which has shaved 10 seconds off of my times.



Yep, that'll happen! I think there are really only three basic insertion cases for F2L, on a high-level, but with edges and corners stuck next to each other or in various places besides the U layer it expands into a _lot_ of real world combinations. It takes some serious repetition in order to see the various cases enough times for your brain to forge new pathways. But repeat things enough and the brain will decide it's important enough to forge those pathways. 

Time to set new goals, sub 1 min will be a given soon.


----------



## openseas (Oct 10, 2017)

Last weekend, I met Donna who is one of cubing mom but also do BLD.
She does 3, 4BLD & MBLD, and two wins from 4BLD & MBLD (all others DNF'd at them comp according to her). I introduced this forum - she might come soon.

- 4 & 5 BLD - U2 with the floating buffer

Any way, while we talked about 4BLD, she said she had trouble with U layer swap (Buffer to the adjacent tile/sticker) which involves two comms. Initially, I did the same but later realized that "floating buffer" is way easier to do than executing two comms for swap. For example, (my target is A and buffer is C, yellow top, red front), when I encounter a third yellow, then, I need to shoot to either B or D. Then, I just close the cycle (imaginary) and do either U or U' first. This move makes either B or D piece into the target position and starting a new cycle. Then, when the last letter of cycle ends, I simply add U' or U (kind of unsetup) at the end. When I memorize, I don't change anything, just memorize the letter as normal but do U or U' right before B or D as a "cycle setup" and finish the cycle followed by "unsetup cycle move".

This is pretty simple and easy, way less move count than U layer swap comm.

I learned 3BLD floating buffer from my son but probably not gonna use it - since it is so complicated (at least to me) but this U2 floating buffer is just easy. Let me know if you have any questions.


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## mark49152 (Oct 10, 2017)

openseas said:


> Any way, while we talked about 4BLD, she said she had trouble with U layer swap (Buffer to the adjacent tile/sticker) which involves two comms. Initially, I did the same but later realized that "floating buffer" is way easier to do than executing two comms for swap. For example, (my target is A and buffer is C, yellow top, red front), when I encounter a third yellow, then, I need to shoot to either B or D. Then, I just close the cycle (imaginary) and do either U or U' first. This move makes either B or D piece into the target position and starting a new cycle. Then, when the last letter of cycle ends, I simply add U' or U (kind of unsetup) at the end. When I memorize, I don't change anything, just memorize the letter as normal but do U or U' right before B or D as a "cycle setup" and finish the cycle followed by "unsetup cycle move".


Not sure if it's the same thing, but for U targets I use the same trick as for FU and DB in M2/r2.

For example, with Urb buffer and Ufl helper, to shoot to Ulb then Rfd I would do U2 a U a' U where a is the setup of Rfd to Ufl. Similarly for Ufr and the inverses. The rules of thumb are exactly the same as for M2/r2.

I wouldn't call it floating buffer though, because the buffer never changes.


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## mark49152 (Oct 10, 2017)

After a long delay I finally got round to another 20 cube attempt:-


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## Shaky Hands (Oct 10, 2017)

Very impressive Mark. First time you'd have had a non-DNF at 60 minutes?

Well done indeed.


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## mark49152 (Oct 10, 2017)

Shaky Hands said:


> Very impressive Mark. First time you'd have had a non-DNF at 60 minutes?


Thanks. Yeah I think it was 12/20 at 60 mins. Hard work for 4 points


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## newtonbase (Oct 10, 2017)

openseas said:


> Last weekend, I met Donna who is one of cubing mom but also do BLD.
> She does 3, 4BLD & MBLD, and two wins from 4BLD & MBLD (all others DNF'd at them comp according to her). I introduced this forum - she might come soon.
> 
> - 4 & 5 BLD - U2 with the floating buffer
> ...


I think I understand what you are doing there. I use Niklas. 8 moves plus any setup and it's very simple.


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## pglewis (Oct 11, 2017)

I'm going the opposite direction while everyone else is improving! No frustration here at the moment though, it's a work in progress and I'm actually enjoying the F2L thinking and tinkering. 

Congrats on all the recent PBs and Mark's attack on 20/20.


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## Shaky Hands (Oct 12, 2017)

Just screwed up a G-perm in what would probably have been a 3x3 PB single.

Scramble: R2 F R2 U2 L2 D2 U2 F' U2 B R2 U B U B' L D' F2 L U' (beautiful scramble)

x2 // inspection
D2 F L' U L y U' F R2 // X-cross
F U' F' // 2nd pair
U' R U' R' U2 R U' R' // 3rd pair
y U' R U R' U2 F' U F // 4th pair & OLL skip
y R2 u' R U' R U R' u R2 y R U' R' // G-perm

The pain, the pain...


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## mark49152 (Oct 12, 2017)

@Shaky Hands That's harsh. Nice solve otherwise!


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## mafergut (Oct 12, 2017)

@Shaky Hands I tried your scramble but I screwed up trying to overthink the (double?) x-cross so I got something like a 17.xx. Very nice scramble anyway.

As today is bank holiday in Spain I decided to pass by and say hello. I have solved today my recently purchased Calvin's Hexaminx and it's a lot of fun. It just takes a bit to get your head around to what piece is what and which are the adjacent centers. After you nail that it's just a megaminx. It turns very well. It's not too fast that you will mess your algs but very smooth and barely locks up. And the plastic feels like good quality.

I have received also some of my latest orders, not sure if I mentioned them here, including a 2x2 mirror (I had a gap in my collection), a Dayan Tangram extreme (very nice solve as well), a Moyu Fisher Time wheel (I haven't solved it yet, but it looks and turns great) and a Lanlan Flowercopter (I haven't solved it yet either, turning is a bit delicate). I also got a Guoguan Xinghen M 2x2 which, after loosening and lubing a bit is quite nice but will not retire my Weipo as my main.

I still have a Lanlan face turning octahedron that must be close to arriving, as well as a Calvin's Tomz Constrained 3x3 Ultimate.


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## Shaky Hands (Oct 12, 2017)

@mafergut - yes indeed, there is a double-X-cross that I didn't want to risk - would have been something like x2 D2 F L' U L y U' F2 U' F' U R2 although there's probably better ways of achieving the same thing. Interestingly this can also set up a double-insert for the 3rd and 4th pairs.

Hope you have a good holiday. Cheers.


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## openseas (Oct 12, 2017)

"Rubik's is suing theCubicle"


https://www.bloomberglaw.com/public...Enterprises_LLC_Docket_No_117cv078?1507841795


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## Shaky Hands (Oct 12, 2017)

openseas said:


> "Rubik's is suing theCubicle"
> 
> 
> https://www.bloomberglaw.com/public...Enterprises_LLC_Docket_No_117cv078?1507841795



Also being discussed on the forums at https://www.speedsolving.com/forum/threads/rubiks-brand-lawsuit-against-the-cubicle.66633/


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## Jason Green (Oct 13, 2017)

openseas said:


> "Rubik's is suing theCubicle"
> 
> 
> https://www.bloomberglaw.com/public...Enterprises_LLC_Docket_No_117cv078?1507841795


TheCubicle doesn't actually manufacture any puzzles in whole do they? They are just suing them because they have more profit than going after all the individual companies? Or maybe they are going to sue all of them next... Or maybe Rubik's thinks they actually make them all (haha jk, obviously they just partnered with Gans).

That would be a really bad thing if there were only Rubik's brands can you imagine? I'm going to have nightmares. 

Edit: I'm going to ask my lawyer friend I grew up with about this. Seems a little late to be suing too don't you think?


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## One Wheel (Oct 13, 2017)

Jason Green said:


> TheCubicle doesn't actually manufacture any puzzles in whole do they? They are just suing them because they have more profit than going after all the individual companies? Or maybe they are going to sue all of them next... Or maybe Rubik's thinks they actually make them all (haha jk, obviously they just partnered with Gans).



It's going to be easier to get an enforceable ruling in a US court than a Chinese one. Probably going after theCubicle because they're most visible, and if they can get the precedent there the others really don't have an argument.


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## openseas (Oct 13, 2017)

One Wheel said:


> It's going to be easier to get an enforceable ruling in a US court than a Chinese one. Probably going after theCubicle because they're most visible, and if they can get the precedent there the others really don't have an argument.



Agreed. Considering how many cases Chinese companies violated in other industries but never got punished, squeezing US retailers are the only options for them.
But why now (other than cubicles now became almost a giant) especially after collaboration with Gans? Do they think their Gans/Rubik's cube are good enough to win over other products?


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## Jason Green (Oct 13, 2017)

openseas said:


> Agreed. Considering how many cases Chinese companies violated in other industries but never got punished, squeezing US retailers are the only options for them.
> But why now (other than cubicles now became almost a giant) especially after collaboration with Gans? Do they think their Gans/Rubik's cube are good enough to win over other products?


The more I think about it, it really feels insulting that they seem more concerned with getting money than they do seeing the cubing community grow.


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## pglewis (Oct 13, 2017)

openseas said:


> But why now (other than cubicles now became almost a giant) especially after collaboration with Gans? Do they think their Gans/Rubik's cube are good enough to win over other products?



ianal, nor anything close to one, but I would guess they're doing it now because the growth of speedcubing in the US might make it worthwhile at this point. I would also guess they'd ultimately like to work out some licensing deal and the trademark claims are testing the waters for how much leverage they have. I can't imagine their end game is to stop sales of all other cubes, rather that they want a cut.


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## newtonbase (Oct 13, 2017)

They are going after The Cubicle now because of their manufacturing and not the reselling of Chinese products. Whether modifying a foreign cube counts as manufacturing would be for the courts to decide. I can understand why they are doing it as if they let this slip then what's to stop The Cubicle going a step further and moulding pieces or building cores.
They may struggle to prove certain points such as harm to the brand as these products are clearly superior and also claiming that customers are mislead into thinking these are Rubik's products is pushing it.
Unfortunately for The Cubicle, Rubik's have far more resources to fight this. They may see the safest option as closing the lab and agreeing a small financial settlement out of court.


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## h2f (Oct 13, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> Unfortunately for The Cubicle, Rubik's have far more resources to fight this. They may see the safest option as closing the lab and agreeing a small financial settlement out of court.



But mind that Rubiks lost in Europe with almost the same case.


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## mark49152 (Oct 13, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> They are going after The Cubicle now because of their manufacturing and not the reselling of Chinese products.


They mention stock cubes and DIYs as well. They are claiming design mark infringement across all those.



Jason Green said:


> The more I think about it, it really feels insulting that they seem more concerned with getting money than they do seeing the cubing community grow.


Yeah I feel similarly although I understand at the end of the day they need to make money to feed their families. The growth in speedcubing is in part credit to the Chinese companies who created viable speedcubes and stores like thecubicle that made them accessible. There are a ton of ways Rubik's could leverage or boost that growth to make more money without relying on negative tactics like this. My own impression of their action is that it betrays a lack of better ideas.

Also note that until recently, nobody who shops at thecubicle would have bought a Rubik's. That's not true now they have the RSC so they have more to gain from shutting down thecubicle.


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## mitja (Oct 13, 2017)

they are goining after DIY cubes that Cubicle sells because, that is the only possible lawsuit they could get and only in USA. 
If I think logicaly: The merchant - Cubicle, can sell anything and is not obligated to know who legally manufactured the cube. Cubicle doesn't know if GANs, Moyu... cube is really done buy those companies. Maybe they are manufactured in central Africa. They get them from another merchant from another country.
So, the whole lawsuit is seriously stupid and that could only happend in US, but it can be very dangerous if some incompetent( prepaid, influenced) judge or jury rules in favor.


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## mark49152 (Oct 13, 2017)

mitja said:


> they are goining after DIY cubes that Cubicle sells


The key claims are in 30, 37 and 47 which allege that damage is caused to them by promotion, advertising and sale of products they claim infringe their design mark. That is not specific to DIYs or cubes thecubicle assemble themselves.

Remember all the past stories of Amazon pulling listings, PayPal refusing to work with certain vendors, distributors having cubes seized at customs, etc. None of those were manufacturers.


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## mafergut (Oct 13, 2017)

This is a very hypocritical stance from Rubik's now that they have come to an agreement with one of those "bad Chinese manufacturers that copied Rubik's great toy design" in order to just have a decent speedcube in the market by completely letting the cube mechanism design to the Chinese brand and contributing themselves with those great... coloured tiles 

Had they used all that financial muscle in R&D instead of in suing others for improving upon their initial design maybe they would stand a chance of having my sympathy and also part of the speedcubing market. Right now, no way they can have any of those.


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## Shaky Hands (Oct 13, 2017)

I suspect much of the lawsuit is as for safety reasons, Rubik Brand may feel they must provide child-safe toys that do not "pop." The popularity of foreign speedcubes is creating something of an uneven playing field for their original IP. Whether or not this is Cubicle's problem is another matter.


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## Jason Green (Oct 13, 2017)

If they win maybe Mercedes will sue all the other car companies for making cars. 

I agree with Mark about them lacking better ideas. I don't think cubing would be growing like it has without speed cubing, which would not exist like it does if only Rubik's was available to this day. It's kind of biting the hand that feeds you whether they realize it or not.


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## openseas (Oct 13, 2017)

Jason Green said:


> If they win maybe Mercedes will sue all the other car companies for making cars.
> 
> I agree with Mark about them lacking better ideas. I don't think cubing would be growing like it has without speed cubing, which would not exist like it does if only Rubik's was available to this day. It's kind of biting the hand that feeds you whether they realize it or not.



Yes, cleary, they don't care our cubing community but their own benefit.


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## One Wheel (Oct 13, 2017)

Jason Green said:


> If they win maybe Mercedes will sue all the other car companies for making cars.



I don't know that it's particularly helpful, but it's a fun analogy to think about to say it's like if Ford sold the model A and model T until 2010 (with some new colors introduced in the '70s), then released the Taurus and promptly sued a Ferrari dealer.


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## Jason Green (Oct 13, 2017)

One Wheel said:


> I don't know that it's particularly helpful, but it's a fun analogy to think about to say it's like if Ford sold the model A and model T until 2010 (with some new colors introduced in the '70s), then released the Taurus and promptly sued a Ferrari dealer.


Hahahaha that actually cracked me up.


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## mitja (Oct 13, 2017)

Shaky Hands said:


> I suspect much of the lawsuit is as for safety reasons, Rubik Brand may feel they must provide child-safe toys that do not "pop." The popularity of foreign speedcubes is creating something of an uneven playing field for their original IP. Whether or not this is Cubicle's problem is another matter.


Well, that one definitely doesn't pop and even shark couldn't bite into it, far less a child. But, that's why the manufacturers claim small parts in the products and the usual age limit in such toys is 3 years. 
Now Rubik's want to start new sales campain with GANS and sue every retailer? The manufacturer states the origin of a product by the markings on the product and packaging. The retailer has nothing to do with the product. The seller of Mercedes has no proof at all that mercedes is original, maybe it's a Moskwitch.
All this will only hurt already bad reputation of Rubik brand even more. Not only that, if I was GANs company, I would be very concerned as it will hurt them a lot. The community loves to rebel, and cubers will even more likely grab Qiji, Moyu...


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## mafergut (Oct 13, 2017)

Exactly. Many of those cubes that TheCubicle sells and are infringing Rubik's patents (according to them) are GANS puzzles, so they are also indirectly suing their new partner for patent infringment. That's not nice of you, Rubik's!


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## openseas (Oct 13, 2017)

mitja said:


> Well, that one definitely doesn't pop and even shark couldn't bite into it, far less a child. But, that's why the manufacturers claim small parts in the products and the usual age limit in such toys is 3 years.
> Now Rubik's want to start new sales campain with GANS and sue every retailer? The manufacturer states the origin of a product by the markings on the product and packaging. The retailer has nothing to do with the product. The seller of Mercedes has no proof at all that mercedes is original, maybe it's a Moskwitch.
> All this will only hurt already bad reputation of Rubik brand even more. Not only that, if I was GANs company, I would be very concerned as it will hurt them a lot. The community loves to rebel, and cubers will even more likely grab Qiji, Moyu...



It is so sad that this company has been entitled to use the name "Rubik's" while it is them to hurt the cubing community.


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## pglewis (Oct 13, 2017)

One Wheel said:


> I don't know that it's particularly helpful, but it's a fun analogy to think about to say it's like if Ford sold the model A and model T until 2010 (with some new colors introduced in the '70s), then released the Taurus and promptly sued a Ferrari dealer.



... and claiming that people having been buying Ferraris under the mistaken impression they were buying a Ford since it has 4 tires and a steering wheel.


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## mark49152 (Oct 13, 2017)

Woohoo! First sub-5 on cam.


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## h2f (Oct 14, 2017)

Nice @mark49152. Nice memo. Nice execution.

I think I'm gonna to work on my big blindes in November.


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## Shaky Hands (Oct 14, 2017)

Brilliant stuff @mark49152. Happy for you mate.


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## pglewis (Oct 14, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> Woohoo! First sub-5 on cam.



Man, that execution seems so smooooth to me.


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## pglewis (Oct 15, 2017)

I made mention in the cube's thread but I'll repeat it here: the Yuxin Little Magic is my favorite surprise of the year. Bought it on a whim, the MF3RS2 was the purchase I was more interested in on that order. I've barely touched the MF3RS2 (which is fine, if a bit tight on tensions as shipped) but haven't put down the Yuxin since I got it. 

Stickerless, blue and red are a lot darker than the current trend in shades-- even darker than the Valk's shades-- it hasn't caused me any recognition issues. The plastic feels less soft than my other stickerless cubes, leading to a "crisp" feel that I really like. Very light, fast, and stable right out of the box; I haven't so much as turned a screw or lubed. At the moment I feel like it's main-worthy and my GTS2Ms have been unchallenged since I got the first one. Weak magnets might make this thing really nice.


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## NewbieCuber (Oct 15, 2017)

pglewis said:


> Yep, that'll happen! I think there are really only three basic insertion cases for F2L, on a high-level, but with edges and corners stuck next to each other or in various places besides the U layer it expands into a _lot_ of real world combinations. It takes some serious repetition in order to see the various cases enough times for your brain to forge new pathways. But repeat things enough and the brain will decide it's important enough to forge those pathways.
> 
> Time to set new goals, sub 1 min will be a given soon.



It's turning out that you're correct. 8 of my last 10 timed solves have been sub-1 minute. I'm also using magnetic cubes now, mainly a magnetized MF3RS, and that extra stability seems to really help my speeds. I also notice that my white cross is solving much faster. The majority of time is now spent in F2L. Even with 2 look OLL and 2 look PLL I think I can get down to sub 45 seconds if I get faster with my F2L.


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## NewbieCuber (Oct 15, 2017)

pglewis said:


> I made mention in the cube's thread but I'll repeat it here: the Yuxin Little Magic is my favorite surprise of the year. Bought it on a whim, the MF3RS2 was the purchase I was more interested in on that order. I've barely touched the MF3RS2 (which is fine, if a bit tight on tensions as shipped) but haven't put down the Yuxin since I got it.



I just magnetized a Little Magic last night and have been solving with it all morning. It certainly has a different feel than the MF3RS, a bit dry even after adding lube. But it's super light, even with the addition of the magnets, and is very crisp.

At first I thought it felt really cheap and toy-like, but it is starting to grow on me.

I still like the smoothness of my magnetized MF3RS but it will be interesting to see how the Little Magic compares after it's broken in with a couple hundred solves.

I also want to get a couple MF3RS2's and magnetize one of them to see how they compare to the MF3RS.


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## pglewis (Oct 15, 2017)

NewbieCuber said:


> It's turning out that you're correct. 8 of my last 10 timed solves have been sub-1 minute. I'm also using magnetic cubes now, mainly a magnetized MF3RS, and that extra stability seems to really help my speeds. I also notice that my white cross is solving much faster. The majority of time is now spent in F2L. Even with 2 look OLL and 2 look PLL I think I can get down to sub 45 seconds if I get faster with my F2L.



It seemed like those last couple seconds to sub 1 min took me forever but then things accelerated. Multiple things started coming together and paying dividends at the same time.

Most of the easy time to shave is definitely in F2L. If something is way out of whack, say cross solutions are regularly taking 12+ seconds, then definitely address that directly. Otherwise, your other stages will naturally improve from the practice even though you'll have most of the focus on improving F2L and F2L lookahead. I'd pay close attention to your transition between the stages as well, pauses like to hide there even if the stages themselves are getting faster.

From recent personal experience I'd also say keep pounding full PLL and add a few obvious and fast OLL solutions to your arsenal. Sub 20 is quite doable with a 4LLL but eventually that well does dry up. I've been at about half of OLL with a trickle being added for a good part of this year and it's a challenge to break my 2-look OLL recognition habits at my stage. My F2L hasn't developed super fast so I've had a lot of solves to develop recognition that I now need to dump. For solves involving new algs-- even if my execution is relatively quick-- I can easily end up 10-15 seconds slower due to recognition and recall. There isn't nearly as much time to gain out of your last layer vs F2L, but there's tons of time to lose there. I'm currently wishing I'd been more aggressive about learning full OLL, I could be focusing on more advanced stuff.



NewbieCuber said:


> I just magnetized a Little Magic last night and have been solving with it all morning. It certainly has a different feel than the MF3RS, a bit dry even after adding lube. But it's super light, even with the addition of the magnets, and is very crisp.
> 
> At first I thought it felt really cheap and toy-like, but it is starting to grow on me.



In a couple days of practice it passes the litmus test for me so far: it basically does what I intend, fairly effortlessly, with few surprises. I have a corner-twist concern with it but haven't actually had one happen. So far no fatal flaws have surfaced and the feel suits my current fickle and ever-changing taste. It happened to be the one in my hands when I got a mid 18 a couple days ago, aided by a PLL skip... my second fastest solve to date. I may get superstitious now.


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## Lid (Oct 16, 2017)

Ah finally, Monday, Monday.
And my first sub15 avg12, no skips, nor any special LL algs used:

15.098, (12.198), 14.661, 15.952, 14.931, (17.753), 14.714, 14.625, 16.005, 13.541, 14.590, 15.188 = *14.931*

Cube: Cubicle Valk3 M



Spoiler: Times/Scambles



Average of 12: 14.931
1. 15.098 F2 R2 D' L2 B2 U2 L D' B R2 D2 L U2 B2 D2 B2 L U2 D2 R'
2. (12.198) F2 L B2 F2 L2 B2 L U2 F2 R B2 F R' U L2 D L' R' B2 D2
3. 14.661 L2 R2 F D2 F' R2 B2 F' R2 U2 L2 R' D' F2 U' L' F' L D2 U' B
4. 15.952 D B2 U L2 B2 U2 F2 U2 L2 B2 D R F U2 L D R2 B F2 R' U2
5. 14.931 U2 R2 F2 U L2 F2 D' U2 L2 U' F2 L' B F' R' U R' U2 L2 D U'
6. (17.753) R U' D2 B' R L2 F U B U2 R' B2 R' U2 F2 B2 U2 R' F2 B2
7. 14.714 L2 U' F' L B' R2 U B U2 F2 D2 L2 F L2 F2 U2 B2 U2
8. 14.625 L2 F2 L2 D F2 D2 B2 U L2 F2 D F' R U L2 F L D R2 U' L
9. 16.005 F' R B2 D' F L2 U2 F B2 R' F2 R B2 D2 F2 B2 R L2 F2
10. 13.541 R2 F' L2 U2 B' D2 R2 D2 R2 F D2 R U' F D L2 D2 B' L D2 R'
11. 14.590 F2 U' L2 R2 U' R2 D L2 F2 L2 U B' L F2 D R' U2 B2 U' B R2
12. 15.188 U' L2 F2 U B2 D2 F2 L2 U' R2 D2 R F' R U' B' D F2 L' R2 B2


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## NewbieCuber (Oct 16, 2017)

>Regarding a magnetized Little Magic:

By the way, I used 4mm x 2mm N50 magnets and the Little Magic has a profound "Lock" as the layers align. It's noticeably more pronounced than my Magnetic Z cube (which is a magnetized MF3RS). So either the Magnetic Z uses less powerful magnets or the Little Magic has much thinner plastic. I like the more subtle feel of the Magnetic Z but quickly adapted to the much stronger magnetic force of the Little Magic.


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## pglewis (Oct 16, 2017)

NewbieCuber said:


> >Regarding a magnetized Little Magic:
> 
> By the way, I used 4mm x 2mm N50 magnets and the Little Magic has a profound "Lock" as the layers align. It's noticeably more pronounced than my Magnetic Z cube (which is a magnetized MF3RS). So either the Magnetic Z uses less powerful magnets or the Little Magic has much thinner plastic. I like the more subtle feel of the Magnetic Z but quickly adapted to the much stronger magnetic force of the Little Magic.



Yeah, I like the stock GTS2M but would go with weaker magnets if I magnetized one custom for myself. I'm enjoying the more even M slices on the non-magnetic Yuxin and wouldn't want to lose that too much. It's not so much the extra force for the slices per se, I can adjust to that with practice, it's just uneven when doing the M/U algs and I find it difficult to get into a clean rhythm. Weak magnets in the Little Magic might be perfect though, just enough to keep things aligned during regrips. 

I definitely love that it's a cheap platform to experiment with... I may have found my top candidate for mbld cubes since I'd prefer magnets for the reassurance in blind but I'm set on shooting for a 6 cube attempt next year.


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## openseas (Oct 17, 2017)

Our @Jason Green :

http://www.fortworthbusiness.com/ne...cle_317f7e52-b049-11e7-8c5b-03d0d3442420.html


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## Jason Green (Oct 17, 2017)

openseas said:


> Our @Jason Green :
> 
> http://www.fortworthbusiness.com/ne...cle_317f7e52-b049-11e7-8c5b-03d0d3442420.html


It did get the year wrong that I got serious, it says 2016 but it was actually 2015. It was an email interview so I double checked that I told him the right year.


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## newtonbase (Oct 17, 2017)

Jason Green said:


> It did get the year wrong that I got serious, it says 2016 but it was actually 2015. It was an email interview so I double checked that I told him the right year.


You're famous! Older Cubers got a mention too but with zero context.


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## Jason Green (Oct 17, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> You're famous! Older Cubers got a mention too but with zero context.


There was more discussion in the interview of course but I guess editing you know.


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## newtonbase (Oct 17, 2017)

A guy has popped up on Facebook who came 3rd in a competition in the Dominican Republic in 1982. I've invited him here. I do hope he comes. He had a newspaper clipping of the event.


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## pglewis (Oct 17, 2017)

Time to check in with my fellow new bld'ers... @Jason Green, I remember @One Wheel was picking up M2, and others I've temporarily forgotten. No news here, I'm risking letting things get a little rusty again and need to put aside some dedicated time this week to at least keep my progress. Soooo much sighted practice since I'm tinkering with multiple areas in my 3x3 solves. Gotta get my execution back up to snuff and do a few more 2 and 3 cube attempts soon.


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## One Wheel (Oct 17, 2017)

pglewis said:


> Time to check in with my fellow new bld'ers... @Jason Green, I remember @One Wheel was picking up M2, and others I've temporarily forgotten. No news here, I'm risking letting things get a little rusty again and need to put aside some dedicated time this week to at least keep my progress. Soooo much sighted practice since I'm tinkering with multiple areas in my 3x3 solves. Gotta get my execution back up to snuff and do a few more 2 and 3 cube attempts soon.



I'm not sure how far I am from an actual success. I've done several writing down the memo and never done better than I think 3 edges off. I did one the other night that was a success, but only sort of. I figured out corners and edges, executed corners, and then retraced my edge memo. Then after executing my first edge target I peeked to make sure I'd used the right M-slice algorithm. Ended with a solved cube, which felt like progress, but it doesn't really count.


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## Jason Green (Oct 17, 2017)

pglewis said:


> Time to check in with my fellow new bld'ers... @Jason Green, I remember @One Wheel was picking up M2, and others I've temporarily forgotten. No news here, I'm risking letting things get a little rusty again and need to put aside some dedicated time this week to at least keep my progress. Soooo much sighted practice since I'm tinkering with multiple areas in my 3x3 solves. Gotta get my execution back up to snuff and do a few more 2 and 3 cube attempts soon.


I'm slowly progressing. I'm working on better images and I have dedicated images through F now. I really enjoy drilling those for some reason. One thing I've noticed different with blind is I do not like to practice when I'm tired, which is a lot of my practice time. 3x3 practice and others are always slower when I'm tired also, but blind is a bit torturous. Haha. Maybe simply because I'm so slow, but I think also it makes each aspect more difficult (trace, memo, exec).

The vast majority of my images are people, I've wondered if it will be too many but so far I like it. I usually try to pick a better image as opposed to the easiest one for me to think of. For example when I see AJ my first thought is always Allen Jackson, but I chose Angelina Jolie because she's more distinctive to me. I guess there's nothing wrong with multiple options for some pairs.

I was at my kids school today and did a demonstration of a few solves for some of the classes. I think my best one was like 21.  Multiple reasons... tired, standing and trying to hold the cube up high, kids making noise (some solves), and nerves. I always find that type thing more nervous than comp, and a different kind of nerves too.


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## pglewis (Oct 18, 2017)

My 3x3 tinkering update:

F2L: I'm confident I've improved how I handle a few cases that have hurt me the most in the past. I'm thinking more and slower again but once those become more automatic it should do a lot of good for my averages. Lower priority but still getting a little attention is some edge control, in particular coming up with alternate ways of dealing with the last pair based on the final U edge's orientation. I don't always spot it fast enough and I've yet to find anything reasonable to do about it in some cases like the 3-move insert, but in the majority of cases I feel like there's little excuse to end up with a dot case beyond "I just didn't look".

OLL: Whittled down to just the dot cases at last, for the most part (I will learn those too, I don't plan to rely on edge control 100%). Recognition still needs work to return to where my 2-look OLL was at but it is improving. I'm going ahead and learning OLLCP for a couple of the line cases that are symmetric (streetlights, highway); those are low frequency cases but there are only 4 for each and they're very easy to recognize. I'm also ready to find replacements for the algs I chose for the "awkward" cases, the ones I picked were fairly easy to remember but they're going to be difficult to finger-trick well. Those were only added in the past couple weeks and so far they're the only ones I've ended up scowling at.

PLL: I've already broken my solves with other tinkering so I might as well force myself to get 100% two-sided PLL recognition. I've gotten into an awful habit of an automatic U2 if I don't immediately recognize the case, that's gotta stop. I don't really like the Gc alg I've been using so I picked up a headlights-left, R/U/D version that feels like it has a much better flow for me: R2' U' R U' R U R' U R2 D' U R U' R' D. The old alg was headlights-right so it adds an angle if I don't let it go stale. Also added an angle for Ja that needs practice, I've been using an R/U/L alg for it and the Jb mirror provides an easy new one. 

Now the race is on to see how much of that I can absorb before signing up for a comp and the moratorium on thinking goes back in place.


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## NewbieCuber (Oct 19, 2017)

I just realized that I'm right at the 5 month mark for learning how to speed cube. My "Twisty Timer" app on my phone shows this promising improvement:

Number of timed solves : 520
Worst: 4:08.59 (Yes, that's 4 MINUTES for a 3x3.  That's where I started in June)
Best : 43.61

Avg of 100 : 1:03.14
Avg of 50 : 59.65
Avg of 12 : 58.58
Avg of 5 : 57.41

It's moving in the right direction for sure!


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## newtonbase (Oct 19, 2017)

I've decided to relearn Ortega a week before the UK Championships rather than on the morning of the competition like usual.


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## bubbagrub (Oct 19, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> I've decided to relearn Ortega a week before the UK Championships rather than on the morning of the competition like usual.



Good idea! The thing that made the biggest difference for me was predicting (during inspection) where there would be a bar (i.e., a t-perm, as opposed to a y-perm) on the bottom layer. So when I have my hands on the timer I'm thinking "Red cross, green bar on the right" or "white cross, no bar". That was the thing that made the biggest difference to my 2x2 times, and it's much easier than predicting OLL, IMO...


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## newtonbase (Oct 19, 2017)

bubbagrub said:


> Good idea! The thing that made the biggest difference for me was predicting (during inspection) where there would be a bar (i.e., a t-perm, as opposed to a y-perm) on the bottom layer. So when I have my hands on the timer I'm thinking "Red cross, green bar on the right" or "white cross, no bar". That was the thing that made the biggest difference to my 2x2 times, and it's much easier than predicting OLL, IMO...


Yes, I'll need a few more solves to get back to that stage. Also need to practice 2 sided recognition again. The algs came back pretty quickly but I couldn't tell you what they are. All in the muscle memory. All solves were 11/12s which isn't awful considering practice levels.


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## Jason Green (Oct 19, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> I've decided to relearn Ortega a week before the UK Championships rather than on the morning of the competition like usual.


Overachiever.


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## newtonbase (Oct 19, 2017)

Jason Green said:


> Overachiever.


Skewb can wait until the day. That's a tradition I'm not breaking.


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## mafergut (Oct 19, 2017)

A couple sub-1min 4x4 solves this week. Very close to Ao5 and Ao12 PB and improvement of around 1 sec on Ao50 and Ao100 (PB Ao50 now 1:11.06). Also slight 5x5 improvement with new PB Ao5 (2:24.xx) and Ao12, finally below 2:30 (2:29.49). So, even though I don't practise I seem to be improving, does that make any sense?


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## mafergut (Oct 20, 2017)

Sorry for the bad quality of the video but I just recorded the unboxing in a hurry and it's in Spanish, bad lighting, etc. but I just wanted to share my 1st impressions on my new hand-modded 5x5x3 from a very talented Spanish modder, GadiRubik. I will try to record a better video showing it later on. You can check the modder's YouTube channel and Facebook page in the details of the video.


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## muchacho (Oct 20, 2017)

Nice puzzle!

I've managed to reach to 1723 3x3 solves without a DNF (although I discard keyboard malfunctions and also when I somehow forget to start the timer), centers of the blocks in 1724th were wrong.

That was a 18.994 mean, I can almost say I'm sub-19, but goal for the year was sub-18 (from 21) and that won't happen.


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## mark49152 (Oct 20, 2017)

Another 20 cube attempt today!


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## newtonbase (Oct 20, 2017)

How many cubes in the hour @mark49152?


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## mark49152 (Oct 21, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> How many cubes in the hour @mark49152?


Don't know, I didn't count, but it was DNF for sure. My worst attempt yet.


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## pglewis (Oct 21, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> Don't know, I didn't count, but it was DNF for sure. My worst attempt yet.



Mama said there'd be days. At least we get to see that you're occasionally, ever so briefly, mortal.


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## newtonbase (Oct 21, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> Don't know, I didn't count, but it was DNF for sure. My worst attempt yet.


Nothing wrong with getting your first 20/20 at the UKs. I'm expecting a few people to aim around that mark,


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## mark49152 (Oct 21, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> Nothing wrong with getting your first 20/20 at the UKs. I'm expecting a few people to aim around that mark,


We'll see


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## newtonbase (Oct 21, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> We'll see


_! ti oD_


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## mark49152 (Oct 21, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> _! ti oD_


I think there are 7 UK people who might try 15+ attempts but I'm not sure any of them are ready for 20. Maybe one or two are.


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## mafergut (Oct 21, 2017)

We know you can do it, Mark @mark49152. Don't let a bad day knock you down.

By the way, solved my new toy a couple of times and I have to say I love the puzzle. In fact I think I'm buying more cuboids. Mass produced ones, whenever I can, of course but maybe I'll get some hand modded ones as well in the future. Exceptional work by GadiRubik and the convenience of having national shipment will make me repeat 

By the way, @JohnnyReggae you are quite an accomplished modder yourself. Have you come up with any new creations recently? Something that could be on sale maybe?


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## newtonbase (Oct 21, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> I think there are 7 UK people who might try 15+ attempts but I'm not sure any of them are ready for 20. Maybe one or two are.


Bertie and young Ben must be pretty close and I know Chris Morris had a try at 20 this week. It's going to be very interesting.


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## mark49152 (Oct 21, 2017)

Bertie, Ben, Chris, Callum, Steven Kearns, Oliver Wheat and yours truly are the 7 that I was thinking of. MBLD is way more interesting than a year ago.

I won't lay down any challenges by naming who I think is ready for 20 

Ollie is registered too but I didn't count him because these days he seems to prefer smaller attempts.


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## newtonbase (Oct 22, 2017)

Time to relearn OLL parity. Oops.


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## mark49152 (Oct 22, 2017)

Nice 3BLD and 3x3 PBs for Grzegorz @h2f today, congrats.

Any other oldies competing?


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## h2f (Oct 22, 2017)

Thanks Mark, @mark49152. Practice pays off though I wasnt able to make it the Finals. My excuse is that solving at dinner time is my weakness since ever. I had 1:13 in the first solve but off by M2 move during edges. In the third I had a long pause on last two targets - I had to review all edges to find missed targets. I'm gonna to keep practice - next comp in 6 weeks.


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## mitja (Oct 23, 2017)

A question for experienced 3BLD-ers. I am starting with 3-cycles. First edges. For now I try to feel how it goes, just by making my own cycles from my M2 experience . I follow Mark's advanced M2 instructions and I think I understand the basics. I try to experiment by placing difficult pairs in the easiest position. So one of the pair letters to the DB, FU, and target UB positions. I try not to get lost in those over 700 comms and just check how my solution compares to the already made lists. I found some lists on the forum, but it is hard to search over too many pages. 
Can you advise me where to find good spreadsheet with easy to find comms. Maybe some nice video tutorial with example wlakthroughs?


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## mitja (Oct 23, 2017)

Forgot to tell my buffers UBL and DF.


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## mark49152 (Oct 23, 2017)

@mitja: I haven't done much with edge comms yet so don't know which are the best resources. I think @newtonbase has though, maybe he can help.

Nice to hear my advanced M2 post was useful to you


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## pglewis (Oct 23, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> [...] Nice to hear my advanced M2 post was useful to you



I'll give another thumbs up since it was mentioned. I haven't even incorporated all the top ones yet but I copied the info and pasted into my practice list file. Fantastic resource with immediate pay-off coming from basic M2.


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## mitja (Oct 23, 2017)

Those M slice cases that Mark described so understandable are the base I use for everything. I like to understend 3 cycle, not just learn. I also never systematically learned the comms for M2 , only those M cases FU and BD, and DB, UF,BU. 
When I started by reading comms from the long list, I got confused and it was just too much comms that look alike . Now, by following this advanced M2 guide, I slowly understand what is happening around the cube. I know that those corner 3-cycles are much harder as OP is nothing like that at all. On the other hand M2 is very usefull for transition to 3-cycle.


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## newtonbase (Oct 23, 2017)

@mitja Roman has all the good comms lists on his site along with other blind resources http://bestsiteever.ru
@Ollie Frost has a nice video to help start learning comms 



I've been learning by extending the best stuff on Mark's thread initially and then some basic R2 stuff.
My favourite new alg is (M' U M' U) x2.
Of course if you really want to save time you'll get a better return from learning corners but they are much harder.
@mark49152 I've seen your thread linked to off-site more than once.


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## h2f (Oct 23, 2017)

mitja said:


> A question for experienced 3BLD-ers. I am starting with 3-cycles. First edges. For now I try to feel how it goes, just by making my own cycles from my M2 experience . I follow Mark's advanced M2 instructions and I think I understand the basics. I try to experiment by placing difficult pairs in the easiest position. So one of the pair letters to the DB, FU, and target UB positions. I try not to get lost in those over 700 comms and just check how my solution compares to the already made lists. I found some lists on the forum, but it is hard to search over too many pages.
> Can you advise me where to find good spreadsheet with easy to find comms. Maybe some nice video tutorial with example wlakthroughs?



My 3 cents: I've start with advanced M2 made by Mark. It showed that FU, DB are the best helpers in the world. When I felt comfortable I've started adding some setups like u/u' (not U/U') or using comms like M', U2 or M, D2 - I think Mark mention it in his advanced M2. I also did experiments with M2 setups and cancelations like M2: [M, U' L' U] which in execution goes like: M' U' L' U M' U' L U M2. Currently I've started adding algs that do some nice thing and I didnt know them like M' U' M U' M' U' M U'. I use lists mostly when I dont feel comfortable with a solution. I've found Meneghetti's list as the closest to my preferences. I think edges are esier to learn than corners.

My solve from a first round. I wish I could do this in a final. I'm gonna keep practice to make it on the next comp. This could be sub-1: memo could be 5 seconds faster but I've checked all once again. Execution of corners was poor and the pause on the edges didnt help. But still - I'm happy with the solve and the space for improvement.


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## mitja (Oct 23, 2017)

Thanks, for this, I will dive into it.


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## mark49152 (Oct 23, 2017)

Nice solve Grzegorz.


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## Jason Green (Oct 24, 2017)

h2f said:


> My 3 cents: I've start with advanced M2 made by Mark. It showed that FU, DB are the best helpers in the world. When I felt comfortable I've started adding some setups like u/u' (not U/U') or using comms like M', U2 or M, D2 - I think Mark mention it in his advanced M2. I also did experiments with M2 setups and cancelations like M2: [M, U' L' U] which in execution goes like: M' U' L' U M' U' L U M2. Currently I've started adding algs that do some nice thing and I didnt know them like M' U' M U' M' U' M U'. I use lists mostly when I dont feel comfortable with a solution. I've found Meneghetti's list as the closest to my preferences. I think edges are esier to learn than corners.
> 
> My solve from a first round. I wish I could do this in a final. I'm gonna keep practice to make it on the next comp. This could be sub-1: memo could be 5 seconds faster but I've checked all once again. Execution of corners was poor and the pause on the edges didnt help. But still - I'm happy with the solve and the space for improvement.


Great solve Grzegorz! Right now I just think if I could get my memo anywhere close to that I wouldn't care how long execution took. Of course I know I would feel different *if* I was ever close. It reminds me of watching badmephisto videos where he talked about cube rotations taking time and I thought come on, I don't think I'll ever be fast enough to care about rotating the cube once.


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## pglewis (Oct 24, 2017)

Jason Green said:


> It reminds me of watching badmephisto videos where he talked about cube rotations taking time and I thought come on, I don't think I'll ever be fast enough to care about rotating the cube once.



IKR!


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## NewbieCuber (Oct 24, 2017)

NEW PB!

5 months into cubing and I just got my very first sub 40 second solve on a 3x3. 
38.63 seconds.

My Avg of 5 is 53.67. Only a week ago I broke the sub 1 minute average of 5. Now I'm pushing sub 50. I never dreamed I'd get a sub 40. Now sub 30 is looking like it's possible.

So far nearly ALL of my time saving has been due to better cross building and better F2L recognition. In a typical 55 second solve I'm not finishing F2L until 45 seconds in. So there's certainly room to improve there.


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## Shaky Hands (Oct 24, 2017)

@NewbieCuber well done, keep going and I'm sure you'll get a sub-30 single soon enough. PB singles of about 60% of an average are quite possible with a lucky skip.


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## Jason Green (Oct 25, 2017)

NewbieCuber said:


> NEW PB!
> 
> 5 months into cubing and I just got my very first sub 40 second solve on a 3x3.
> 38.63 seconds.
> ...


Nice job! It's fun how what seems possible keeps improving. Have you ever video'd yourself? I know for me when I watch myself no matter what I average, I always pause more than I realize. Now I'm at a point where sub 15 seems pretty difficult to average... Until I watch a video of my solves and I see tons of spots I could speed up.


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## openseas (Oct 25, 2017)

I guess everybody saw this by now, looks like they (Rubik's) had a big plot and the legal action was just a beginning.

Money & power from Red Bulls + Rubik's name. Is it going to be pro-cubing (pro - not by the capabilities or speed but but by incomes lead/sponsored by Red Bulls) vs amateurs (WCA, since nobody makes living out of just competition) split?

Does anybody know the history of xTreme sports whether it was a smooth transition or some kind of controversy between existing organization who developed the community vs big corporate like Red Bulls or Rubik's?


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## Jason Green (Oct 26, 2017)

Oh my goodness look at this scramble from cstimer.  The only time I actually thought during inspection I might could get a PB it was so easy. Unfortunately my clumsy fingers didn't do that great. I tried it several more times for fun and finally got a 9.66.

Generated By csTimer on 2017-10-25
single: 14.33

Time List:
1. 14.33 U B2 L2 U2 F2 U' L2 B2 F2 U2 L D2 B' L2 B2 D2 U' F2 U2


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## newtonbase (Oct 26, 2017)

openseas said:


> Does anybody know the history of xTreme sports whether it was a smooth transition or some kind of controversy between existing organization who developed the community vs big corporate like Red Bulls or Rubik's?


It's quite hard to tell how these things have been received in the main. You'd probably have to look through equivalent forums but there's a few examples of complaints about damaging the purity of sports such as downhill mountain biking and paddle boarding. There has been a lot of controversy over their ownership of RB Leipzig football team. They have a history of taking sports and ramping up excitement levels which they do very well.
Bottom line is that this won't stop us cubing, it won't destroy the WCA and it will bring publicity to our hobby. I don't like how it has been handled but I'm not worried about it and it should be fun to watch.


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## JohnnyReggae (Oct 26, 2017)

Jason Green said:


> Oh my goodness look at this scramble from cstimer.  The only time I actually thought during inspection I might could get a PB it was so easy. Unfortunately my clumsy fingers didn't do that great. I tried it several more times for fun and finally got a 9.66.
> 
> Generated By csTimer on 2017-10-25
> single: 14.33
> ...


Nice scramble. Got a 12.51 with it


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## muchacho (Oct 26, 2017)

Jason Green said:


> Oh my goodness look at this scramble from cstimer.  The only time I actually thought during inspection I might could get a PB it was so easy. Unfortunately my clumsy fingers didn't do that great. I tried it several more times for fun and finally got a 9.66.
> 
> Generated By csTimer on 2017-10-25
> single: 14.33
> ...


Nice for Roux, 16.256, but I did CMLL twice 

edit: 12.095 at second try


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## newtonbase (Oct 26, 2017)

I've been doing sighted practice on various puzzles in advance of the UKs this weekend. I'm beginning to think that I shouldn't have neglected everything in lieu of blind. My times are pretty appalling so 3BLD is my only real chance of a PB and that's taken a bit of a downturn. I may have to just spend Saturday practicing/judging.


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## moralsh (Oct 26, 2017)

Jason Green said:


> Oh my goodness look at this scramble from cstimer.  The only time I actually thought during inspection I might could get a PB it was so easy. Unfortunately my clumsy fingers didn't do that great. I tried it several more times for fun and finally got a 9.66.
> 
> Generated By csTimer on 2017-10-25
> single: 14.33
> ...



I was going to write here just to wish good luck for all the British attending UK champs this weekend but couldn't resisst to try the scramble, it was my first ever 11 (11.96). I have also a 9, couple of 10s and several 12s but it's cool to finally have filled all the numbers.

Again, good luck to all of you competing!


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## Shaky Hands (Oct 26, 2017)

Yes, indeed it’s UK Championships imminently and I’ve already arrived, having a practice session with a bottle of ale.

My main hopes of a PB are in FMC and Clock. Will see if I can do so. Have done a fair bit of 3x3 practice whilst learning extra OLL cases (53/57 in the bag now) but not expecting anything amazing there.

Looking forward to seeing some familiar faces too.


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## Selkie (Oct 27, 2017)

Apologies for my absence of late. Just wanted to pop in to wish all my fellow cubing brethren all the best of luck at UKC. Sorry I will not be there this year but go break some Pbs.


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## mark49152 (Oct 27, 2017)

Selkie said:


> Apologies for my absence of late. Just wanted to pop in to wish all my fellow cubing brethren all the best of luck at UKC. Sorry I will not be there this year but go break some Pbs.


We'll miss you mate. Bad luck not making it. See you at Weston for sure though!


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## Jason Green (Oct 27, 2017)

I can't say I'm surprised by what Dana says, in fact I'm very happy about it and it's great she is supporting real cubing still! However I am somewhat surprised at how crooked this whole thing sounds now. I guess I shouldn't be surprised by that.


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## mitja (Oct 27, 2017)

Jason Green said:


> I can't say I'm surprised by what Dana says, in fact I'm very happy about it and it's great she is supporting real cubing still! However I am somewhat surprised at how crooked this whole thing sounds now. I guess I shouldn't be surprised by that.


I wouldn't worry about it. It could only make speedcubing more popular. I know that in our country Red Bull contacted our asociation and asked us to help organize the competition. That way it would be run by people that know what they are doing and it has nothing to do with national or international ranking. The task of speedcubers is to know which is the main organisation and that is WCA.
there is a lot of improvement that WCA could do within:
1. There should be separated judging panel. I see to many children , sorry it doesn't make a serious impression. I would separate children events from adult. Also female, maybe it would bring more girls. I know children can be extremely fast, but anyway it doesn't belong together. Scramblers and judges should not compete.
2. It should be more popularised in media
3. I believe Bld events should be more popular, they look very impressive.
4. One on one elimination does look attractive as it is competition. It could also be done like elimination of 4, 6, 8..
5. Relays could be attractive
6. Using Rubik only brand in Red Bull is the most stupid idea of them all. I am sure it won't last, maybe that's the very thing that will bury the competition.


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## moralsh (Oct 27, 2017)

Awesome Mark, sub 5 4BLD and 13:25 5BLD best of luck on Multi!


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## One Wheel (Oct 27, 2017)

mitja said:


> I wouldn't worry about it. It could only make speedcubing more popular. I know that in our country Red Bull contacted our asociation and asked us to help organize the competition. That way it would be run by people that know what they are doing and it has nothing to do with national or international ranking. The task of speedcubers is to know which is the main organisation and that is WCA.
> there is a lot of improvement that WCA could do within:
> 1. There should be separated judging panel. I see to many children , sorry it doesn't make a serious impression. I would separate children events from adult. Also female, maybe it would bring more girls. I know children can be extremely fast, but anyway it doesn't belong together. Scramblers and judges should not compete.
> 2. It should be more popularised in media
> ...



My quick thoughts on your list:
1. Are you saying to hold the events separately, or count the results separately? I would be on board with the latter, but I'm not sure the first is practical. It's an entirely different competition, but I have some experience with showing dairy cattle. In those competitions there are typically separate entries and prizes for "junior" (roughly through high school) and "open" classes, but they compete head to head. As far as scramblers and judges competing, I agree in principle, perhaps corporate sponsorship would allow hiring professional judges and scramblers. Short of that, my suspicion is that this kind of rule would make it very difficult to staff a competition.
2. 100% agreed. I think that Red Bull's format is good in that regard.
3. Agreed.
4. What do you mean by elimination of 4, 6, 8? I do not think that one-on-one elimination would be a good fit for larger competitions, as it makes determining placings below the top few very difficult, but for a media event it's great.
5. Yes.
6. Yes, 100%. I believe that I understood Dana Yi to say in her video that she would not compete if this were not changed. I find it hard to believe that Red Bull would not make a strong effort to open that up if they get the kind of push-back that it sounds like they're getting.


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## pglewis (Oct 27, 2017)

moralsh said:


> Awesome Mark, sub 5 4BLD and 13:25 5BLD best of luck on Multi!



Just checked cube comps and I gotta say: man, that's a tough crowd on big bld you guys got over there 

Way to go Mark, and good luck on the upcoming events.


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## h2f (Oct 27, 2017)

Congrats Mark, @mark49152 Results are awsome.


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## newtonbase (Oct 27, 2017)

That's 2 silvers for @mark49152. Can't wait for MBLD. Hope I can fit in some judging. Competition is likely to be fierce.


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## mitja (Oct 27, 2017)

One Wheel said:


> My quick thoughts on your list:
> 1. Are you saying to hold the events separately, or count the results separately? I would be on board with the latter, but I'm not sure the first is practical. It's an entirely different competition, but I have some experience with showing dairy cattle. In those competitions there are typically separate entries and prizes for "junior" (roughly through high school) and "open" classes, but they compete head to head. As far as scramblers and judges competing, I agree in principle, perhaps corporate sponsorship would allow hiring professional judges and scramblers. Short of that, my suspicion is that this kind of rule would make it very difficult to staff a competition.
> 2. 100% agreed. I think that Red Bull's format is good in that regard.
> 3. Agreed.
> ...


I was thinking out of my experience from working in World dance competitions. There is also hundreds of events that call them self "world championship". Most of us over the world agree about one official organization ( International Dance Organization) all the rest are just like Red Bull trying to get their piece of a pie.
We also learned on the fly, how to organize events, judges, and appropriate age divisions over many decades
There is always two choices:
To be a serious top lever sports event or to work like a family gathering event/festival. It is up to WCA to be the first but at the same time to organize additional gala spectacles with the best cubers, like a show event on the high level, not like a cheap talent show.


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## mitja (Oct 27, 2017)

h2f said:


> Congrats Mark, @mark49152 Results are awsome.


Congratulations


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## mark49152 (Oct 27, 2017)

Thanks everyone for the kind congrats. UKC day 1 was successful, great fun, and tiring! As well as the 4BLD and 5BLD, I did three attempts at FMC and got a 41 single, 48.67 mean, using just CFOP. It's the first time I've done FMC and I really enjoyed it. I wish I had enough time to learn some proper FMC techniques and get more into it!


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## pglewis (Oct 28, 2017)

While it's fresh in my mind: @Jason Green, you've been collecting an image list and iirc you're a computer guy, too. I assume whatever you're using supports one of CSV/XML/JSON for exports. A bit of a pet project I'd like to attempt is a networked, shared image repository where you could import your personal image list. The idea is that you could tag some of your images public and when someone else is blanking out on a particular pair they could check what's out there and pick some to import to their list. Plenty of UI and other challenges would have to be worked out but if done well I think it could be a killer time saver for people at this stage. I'm imagining all the web searches I could save myself if something like this were already running and populated.


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## Jason Green (Oct 28, 2017)

pglewis said:


> While it's fresh in my mind: @Jason Green, you've been collecting an image list and iirc you're a computer guy, too. I assume whatever you're using supports one of CSV/XML/JSON for exports. A bit of a pet project I'd like to attempt is a networked, shared image repository where you could import your personal image list. The idea is that you could tag some of your images public and when someone else is blanking out on a particular pair they could check what's out there and pick some to import to their list. Plenty of UI and other challenges would have to be worked out but if done well I think it could be a killer time saver for people at this stage. I'm imagining all the web searches I could save myself if something like this were already running and populated.


That's a cool idea. Do you have the spreadsheet @openseas shared with me? It's usually my starting point and has some great suggestions. If I don't like that I go to http://peoplebyinitials.com because I like people the best so far. After that I go to http://bestsiteever.ru/letterpairs. So far that's all I've needed and I'm through G so far. I am using Anki which is exportable if anyone wants to see mine sometime.

I am a software guy for a living but do very little with it recreationally these days. :/


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## mafergut (Oct 28, 2017)

Jason Green said:


> Oh my goodness look at this scramble from cstimer.  The only time I actually thought during inspection I might could get a PB it was so easy. Unfortunately my clumsy fingers didn't do that great. I tried it several more times for fun and finally got a 9.66.



Got 11.15 (almost PB) at first try. Very nice indeed. Good luck to all of you participating in UKC or any other comp. This week I solved my new mf8 dodecahedrons (Bauhinia and Curvy Starminx) once each of them and it was tiring but a lot of fun. The Bauhinia is the most complicated not only because of the amount of pieces (60 + 60 = 120 petals) to be placed but also because of the creativity needed to find the setup moves for the different commutators. One single mistake and you can end up with a freshly rescrambled puzzle and have to start all over again. Non-WCA puzzles are growing on me more and more lately.

Regarding the controversy with Red Bull's World Championship I also hate some things about it but, as some of you have stated, I hope in the end it will just help our hobby to be more widely known.


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## muchacho (Oct 28, 2017)

Full LSE skip, this must be veeery rare 

58160 28-oct-2017 17:52:15 00:14.575 B2 R2 D2 R' B2 R2 F2 D2 R' D2 L' U' B L2 B' R F2 U' L' R
x' y2
R U M' U2 L U' L' R F L' U L M2 U2 F'
R' U M' U R2 R' U R M' R' U R R U R' Rw U Rw'
U2 R U R' U R U2 R'


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## Logiqx (Oct 28, 2017)

Nice to see some of the guys at UKC 2017 - @Shaky Hands @bubbagrub @newtonbase @mark49152 @SenorJuan

My best solve of the day (22.32s OH) appears to be a new oldies record:






@Ollie and I also watched Phillip Weyer get a 7.77 OH single. I almost recorded it but I didn't unlock my phone in time!


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## newtonbase (Oct 29, 2017)

Had a good time at the UK Championships with lots of the Older Cubers.
Saturday 
2x2 - poor. I thought one of my best PB opportunities would be this average but never got close. 
5x5 - I could barely remember what to do warming up and almost didn't enter. I was stopped after the 4 min cut and didn't try solve 2
Pyraminx - scraped a single PB then went down hill rapidly. Really should have got average PB toi
OH - poor as usual. 
Skewb - relearned this just before my round. Result was poor as expected. 
Sunday 
Started with a dreadful hangover. Still feel rough now. 
3x3 - PB single 24.85 was nice. My judge wrote a 27s as 21s which I didn't notice until the results went up but I got it changed. 
4x4 - was expecting to miss the 2:30 hard cut but got a 2:09 then a 2:03 PB despite double parity in both. 
3BLD - slow DNF, slow success (2:46), quick DNF (1:43). They gave me scramble 3 for solve 2 so when I got the same scramble for solve 3 I sent it back. Maybe I should have solved it again . I'll get a decent solve one day. 
Great comp. Saw some fantastic solves and enjoyed judging in a top quality MBLD round. Well done to @mark49152 for his silvers and @Logiqx for his OH solve. 
We forgot to get a photo!


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## CLL Smooth (Oct 29, 2017)

muchacho said:


> Full LSE skip, this must be veeery rare
> 
> 58160 28-oct-2017 17:52:15 00:14.575 B2 R2 D2 R' B2 R2 F2 D2 R' D2 L' U' B L2 B' R F2 U' L' R
> x' y2
> ...


I one time finished second block and had T-perm for CMLL. I guess the more OLLCP you know the more likely a LSE skip could be.


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## Shaky Hands (Oct 29, 2017)

Back home after the UK Championships. This may have been my favourite competition to date. Here's a bit of a recap for those interested.

*Friday*
3x3 FMC - My first attempt to get a FMC Mean. I got a 45 in both the first and second solve using regular CFOP (PLL skip in the 2nd.) 3rd solve I ran out of time and got my first DNF in FMC. Time management is more important in FMC than I realised. I've made a mental note of this so it shouldn't happen again.

*Saturday*
2x2 - PB average by 1sec. I'd managed to retain my Ortega knowledge without practice.
5x5 - PB single (2:06) and PB average (2:14) - really happy with this. I got my 2nd ever sub-2m solve in the week before the UK Championship so hope to continue to improve on this.
Pyraminx - I pulled out of this as I've forgotten how to solve it.
Clock - 3 reasonable but unimpressive times were followed by 2 DNFs, the 1st of which was when my Clock fell over between inspection and starting the solve. As I often do, I walk away from a comp feeling I could have done better.
3x3 OH - unexpected PB single, using a PLL that I only learned to execute OH about 10 minutes before the solve.
Skewb - I think this went 15, 15, 19, 1:01 (pop) and then by the 5th solve of a long day I'd somehow forgotten how to solve the puzzle. So I had a bit of a brain freeze!
*
Sunday*
3x3 - 3x 20s solves, a 27s solve when I did my cross wrong, and a 30s+2 where I did the wrong PLL and had to fix it. Ended up butchering my average in the process. I think some of the work I've been doing on learning Full OLL (I'm 4 cases away from this) is really helping me. I'd like to think I could get an official sub-20 average by the end of 2018, but that's not going to happen without me putting a fair bit of work into it.
4x4 - 2 solves just over the reduced cutoff time. If parity-free I'd have been fine. Not to be on this occasion.
3x3 BLD - PB single in the 2nd solve. I thought I'd messed up as something misaligned during a Y-perm and I had to guess how to fix it and hope it was right. Tempted to get back into BLD practice after having forsaken it a bit recently.

Great as always to meet up with some of the gang from here - @mark49152, @Logiqx, @newtonbase, @bubbagrub and @SenorJuan. Hope to see you again soon.


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## Jason Green (Oct 30, 2017)

I've had a few drinks tonight as I stayed up watching the World Series. I feel inspired to say how thankful I am for this thread. For fellow old cubers (some of who enjoy drinking and some maybe not). For @Marcel P , @Selkie , @mark49152 , @Logiqx, @CLL Smooth , @bubbagrub, @newtonbase, @openseas and all the others here who inspire me in my endeavors. This thread has seemed a little quieter than normal lately, but even if this thread some day dies out I know the cubing bond we share will stay strong for many years.

Signed,
Your (slightly tipsy) cubing mate, Jason.


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## Logiqx (Oct 30, 2017)

It was great to see the UK oldies and other regulars at the UK Championships this weekend.

I've been off the forum for quite some time and a lot of that has been due to limited time cubing. I decided to practice a small handful of events leading up to the competition, rather than try everything that I can solve and likely do well in nothing. I'd originally intended to only enter 3x3x3 + 4x4x4 on the Sunday but a week before the competition, I also signed up for OH + 5x5x5 on Saturday.

A quick summary of my performances.

Saturday

5x5 - During warm up I had a session mean of 2:14.99 and the soft-cut for the comp was 2:15.00. I did enough to make the soft-cut in my second solve (2:09.74 with parity) and came away with a 2:21.41, my first official average. I'm reasonably content with these times as I'd only started to practice 5x5x5 one week before the competition.

OH - Over the past 3-4 weeks, I've started practicing OH again and worked my way back from sup-30 averages to a 27.50 Ao50 the day before the competition. I had a nice PB single (22.32) as my second solve but I messed up the average with my last solve as I suddenly got shaky and couldn't turn the cube. The final average was 30.06 which was a comp PB but my official sub-30 average will have to wait a while. It was encouraging that my 2, 3, 4 solves were pretty decent and I didn't screw up like my last 2 UK comps.

Sunday

3x3 R1 - I've been neglecting regular 3x3 recently and leading up to the competition, I discovered that I'd regressed to around 17.5 globally. A first round average of 17.66 was pretty decent given my recent form and a slight improvement to my PB single was nice (13.42) as it wasn't a skip. That solve is 0.01s slower than the official single of @Jason Green.

4x4 - In warm up, I was on fire... 54.13 single, 1:00.65 Ao5 and 1:03.9 Ao12. I failed spectacularly during my official solves and ended up with a 1:22.50 average. Fortunately I got the consolation prize of a PB single - 1:01.05.

3x3 R2 - I was starting to find some form on 3x3 by the afternoon. Despite a poor first solve (22.18), I managed to regain composure and get a 17.08 + 16.09 + 15.07 in the next 3 solves. My final solve was going well and as I was finishing my Y-perm it was going to be another 15s solve based my GoPro video. Unfortunately, I slipped mid-alg and as I expected to stop the timer, I saw a partially scrambled F2L which ended up being a 25s solve. This was a real shame as it would likely have been a PB average - somewhere between 16.0 - 16.3.

It was nice to improve some of my comp PBs and great to see some fast solvers again.

@Shaky Hands, @bubbagrub, @newtonbase, @mark49152, @SenorJuan. See you all next time!

@Ollie - See you in the office!


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## shadowslice e (Oct 30, 2017)

Logiqx said:


> I also watched Phillip Weyer get a 7.77 OH single. I almost recorded it but I didn't unlock my phone in time!


Are you sure it wasn't that your sd card ran out?


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## openseas (Oct 30, 2017)

Jason Green said:


> I've had a few drinks tonight as I stayed up watching the World Series. I feel inspired to say how thankful I am for this thread. For fellow old cubers (some of who enjoy drinking and some maybe not). For @Marcel P , @Selkie , @mark49152 , @Logiqx, @CLL Smooth , @bubbagrub, @newtonbase, @openseas and all the others here who inspire me in my endeavors. This thread has seemed a little quieter than normal lately, but even if this thread some day dies out I know the cubing bond we share will stay strong for many years.
> 
> Signed,
> Your (slightly tipsy) cubing mate, Jason.



Same here! And thanks for introducing me this thread!


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## mark49152 (Oct 30, 2017)

Sub-1 still eludes me...


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## bgcatfan (Oct 30, 2017)

At what age does someone qualify for this this thread? I'm 29 and have been into cubing since around 2003. I'd rather solve than learn, so I have yet to learn full CFOP (still on two-look OLL), but average around 18seconds on 3x3. I don't feel like I am too far from the 15s barrier, I just haven't put in the work to get there.

Anyway, hello everyone. =)


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## Shaky Hands (Oct 30, 2017)

Hi @bgcatfan. I believe most of us that post regularly in this thread are a bit older than that, but we're a friendly bunch and no one is going to check your ID.  If you feel like you're an older cuber then you're welcome. Cheers.


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## chtiger (Oct 31, 2017)

Enjoyed the UK Champs writeups and vids. From across the pond, not as interesting as UK Champs (actually this comp held every event, but it was 3 days and I only went for Sunday) http://cubecomps.com/live.php?cid=2612&compid=57
Went about 7 weeks without any practice since last comp. Did some relearning and practicing this past week.

3x3 - Missed a great opportunity for sub-20. Had a low 17, 18, and 19, but also two 24's (not in that order). Just needed 1 of those 24's to be a 22.42. PB single and barely PB avg by .03. Other round was pretty bad.

2x2 - thought a PB avg was likely, but 2 rounds of sloppy turning. Just can't turn a 2x2 smoothly at comp.

skewb - almost sub-10 avg which was my goal but didn't think was likely. PB single and avg

pyra - 1 mediocre round, 1 bad round

OH - thought for sure I'd PB here, because I'm so bad it's hard not to beat my previous PB, but nope, screwed up both my solves, therefore missing cutoff too. In both solves, I was mid F2L and noticed a cross piece out of place. Also did wrong PLL on 1.


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## mark49152 (Oct 31, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> UKC day 1 was successful, great fun, and tiring! As well as the 4BLD and 5BLD, I did three attempts at FMC and got a 41 single, 48.67 mean, using just CFOP. It's the first time I've done FMC and I really enjoyed it. I wish I had enough time to learn some proper FMC techniques and get more into it!


Here's a quick report on days 2 & 3 too.

2x2, 4x4, 5x5 and clock were all unremarkable. I lost a 5.03 solve on 2x2 due to the timer battery dying (the dreaded 888888). 4x4 average was let down by a corner twist on the last solve that took me a few seconds to fix. On 5x5 I didn't make the soft cut. Clock was slow but at least I dispensed with the safety checks, and didn't DNF any .

In 3x3 first round I got a 20.93 average, which is way down on the ~19 averages I get at home and when warming up, but typical of my recent competition 3x3 performance. That put me 6 places below qualifying for the second round, but by luck, several people left early and I took the last spot. My second round average didn't feel any better than the first, but luck stayed on my side and gave me two good solves, a 16.19 and a counting 17.04. That resulted in an 18.98 PB average, my first sub-19 and first 3x3 PB for 1.5 years.

My 3BLD goal for months now has been official sub-1. I scraped through to the final with a mediocre 1:10.59 single. On the final solve of the final, I got a 1:00.28 (as shown in the video posted earlier). Close but no cigar! Looks like the same goal for next comp too.

Finally, MBLD. First attempt was a 12/16. Two of those failures were due to forgetting to fix parity, a schoolboy error I used to make frequently, but not for a long time now. Very frustrating. After the first attempt, the lead was held with a fast 12 points. I didn't want to tie on points and lose on time so decided to do an odd number for the second attempt. I added a 17th cube as a regular 3BLD. The result was 14/17, not bad for me, but not good enough to podium.

As ever, it was great to catch up with Andy, Mark, Mike, Ben and all the other UK cubers. Shame Chris couldn't make it but we'll catch up at Weston. Congrats to everyone on their PBs and achievements!


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## Jason Green (Oct 31, 2017)

bgcatfan said:


> At what age does someone qualify for this this thread? I'm 29 and have been into cubing since around 2003. I'd rather solve than learn, so I have yet to learn full CFOP (still on two-look OLL), but average around 18seconds on 3x3. I don't feel like I am too far from the 15s barrier, I just haven't put in the work to get there.
> 
> Anyway, hello everyone. =)


Hello and welcome! Everyone is welcome here that enjoys the conversation. 

Great job everyone on the results and PBs posted above!


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## h2f (Oct 31, 2017)

Mark, @mark49152 very nice and fast 3bld solve.


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## mark49152 (Oct 31, 2017)

h2f said:


> Mark, @mark49152 very nice and fast 3bld solve.


Thanks. I put the splits in the description but it's clear what I need to work on. Execution included 8.9 seconds of pauses and 7 taps on the table!


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## Logiqx (Oct 31, 2017)

Oldie rankings updated.

https://github.com/Logiqx/wca-ipy


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## h2f (Oct 31, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> Thanks. I put the splits in the description but it's clear what I need to work on. Execution included 8.9 seconds of pauses and 7 taps on the table!



Still your execution is nice and smooth.


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## openseas (Nov 2, 2017)

Logiqx said:


> Oldie rankings updated.
> 
> https://github.com/Logiqx/wca-ipy



Thanks for the update!

BTW, I believe one of the forum in this speedcubing had this discussion - oldest speed cuber list. It was a while back, like 2012 when WCA dB included ages. Anyway, we can add these people (is it ok or not?) since we have a reference age (Mike). (Alex Maass age was probably an error.)


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## Mike Hughey (Nov 2, 2017)

Wow, what was that for? Magic? It must be because I can't imagine I have a single that good in any other event.

And that's also wild because it shows conclusively - I'm a little younger than Bob's dad. (This question came up at US Nationals this year.) It looks like I'm older, but I would have done that solve 5 or 6 years after Bob Sr. did his.

Anyway, a fun piece of history you dug up there!


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## newtonbase (Nov 2, 2017)

How have you guys learned PLL recognition? I'm currently practicing with this trainer http://mattsploration.com/cubing/2-sided-pll-recognition-trainer/ but should I be learning rules first?


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## Shaky Hands (Nov 2, 2017)

@newtonbase - my PLL recognition isn't great, but I'm happier with my PLL recognition than my F2L recognition and figure that comes up 4 times as often, so will concentrate on that instead for now. My biggest problem is telling the difference between R and T; and between A and V.


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## mark49152 (Nov 2, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> How have you guys learned PLL recognition? I'm currently practicing with this trainer http://mattsploration.com/cubing/2-sided-pll-recognition-trainer/ but should I be learning rules first?


By learning the main patterns first, pretty much the same as when I wrote this: https://www.speedsolving.com/forum/threads/two-sided-pll-recognition-guide.41108/

The harder cases with no blocks just sort of became automatic with practice.


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## pglewis (Nov 2, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> How have you guys learned PLL recognition? I'm currently practicing with this trainer http://mattsploration.com/cubing/2-sided-pll-recognition-trainer/ but should I be learning rules first?



I'm drilling myself to try and make CP recognition automatic and start looking by the end of my OLL. I've been using a trainer like that, Mark's guide above, and http://sarah.cubing.net/3x3x3/pll-recognition-guide#section/cp-recognition


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## newtonbase (Nov 2, 2017)

Thanks guys. I know it's not the most important thing to learn but it's easy to practice on my phone in the middle of the night when getting my son back to sleep. 
I do recall seeing that document @mark49152. I'll have a proper look later, thanks.


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## newtonbase (Nov 2, 2017)

That's a nice, simple set of rules @pglewis Thanks.

A similar thing I've been looking as is corner recognition from seeing 2 stickers. This will speed up blind and F2L. I'm surprised it's not yet automatic.


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## pglewis (Nov 2, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> Thanks guys. I know it's not the most important thing to learn but it's easy to practice on my phone in the middle of the night when getting my son back to sleep...



Yeah, I could almost assuredly get to sub 20 eventually without ever working on it, but if I didn't auto-U2 every time I don't recognize, then AUF properly and THEN PLL... another second matters now. 



newtonbase said:


> That's a nice, simple set of rules @pglewis Thanks.



Yeah, I try to start with CP recog because sometimes that's enough to know. I've found sometimes Mark's recog scheme is a quicker way to the answer if CP alone isn't enough, other times Sarah's logic will find it quicker so I have both open when I'm drilling. They're both great resources. 



newtonbase said:


> A similar thing I've been looking as is corner recognition from seeing 2 stickers. This will speed up blind and F2L. I'm surprised it's not yet automatic.



I eventually want this too, it would be SO helpful, but I'm much farther away from having good instincts there yet.


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## openseas (Nov 2, 2017)

Mike Hughey said:


> Wow, what was that for? Magic? It must be because I can't imagine I have a single that good in any other event.
> 
> And that's also wild because it shows conclusively - I'm a little younger than Bob's dad. (This question came up at US Nationals this year.) It looks like I'm older, but I would have done that solve 5 or 6 years after Bob Sr. did his.
> 
> Anyway, a fun piece of history you dug up there!



Found the link!

Actually, you're in the forum as well 
https://www.speedsolving.com/forum/threads/the-worlds-oldest-speed-cuber-ever.41681/


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## Selkie (Nov 2, 2017)

Great to see all the posts about UKC and congratulations to all those who got a podium or just beat a PB.

After nearly 3 months of just occasional un-timed practice I am back practicing ready for Weston-super-Mare Open later this month. Really pleased not to have lost much time. Had a 15.1* Ao100, a couple of sub 13.5 Ao5's and a few sub 14.5 Ao12's. Filmed about 25 minutes at lunchtime and this was the pick of the bunch. A 13.54s ao5.

Will try and catch up on the thread asap


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## openseas (Nov 2, 2017)

pglewis said:


> I'm drilling myself to try and make CP recognition automatic and start looking by the end of my OLL. I've been using a trainer like that, Mark's guide above, and http://sarah.cubing.net/3x3x3/pll-recognition-guide#section/cp-recognition



Me, too. I was initially building my own from the scratch but found Sarah's this guide. This was very helpful. BTW, do you know her nickname is the DNF queen? She dnf'd a lot for 3x3x3 events.


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## Shaky Hands (Nov 2, 2017)

@Selkie - good work mate. Looks like some of your transitions have improved dramatically if you compare it to some of your recorded solves from a year back.


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## newtonbase (Nov 2, 2017)

openseas said:


> Me, too. I was initially building my own from the scratch but found Sarah's this guide. This was very helpful. BTW, do you know her nickname is the DNF queen? She dnf'd a lot for 3x3x3 events.


Yes, I believe that she bails out of poor solves.


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## mark49152 (Nov 2, 2017)

More UK Championship oldster action...


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## pglewis (Nov 2, 2017)

Knowing CP up front can speed up recog using Mark's guide because it can narrow down the possible choices in some areas (and tells you where the headlights/bar is if it's an adj swap). The 2nd thing I try to remember to check is, if I see headlights, check if the edge there is opp or adj relative to the headlights. If it's an adjacent swap CP and opposite edge between them it can only be T, Gb, or Gd afaik.


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## mark49152 (Nov 2, 2017)

pglewis said:


> Knowing CP up front can speed up recog using Mark's guide because it can narrow down the possible choices in some areas


IMHO it's all part of the same recognition. I recognize the overall pattern, rather than CP first. Of course when you spot a block next to an adjacent or opposite corner colour, you are effectively recognising CP. Distinguishing V perm or A perm from the two sides with the block is a good example. If one of the blocks is next to an adjacent colour corner, it's an A perm; but I dont find myself thinking "hey the CP is an adjacent corner swap, what do I see next?"

@Selkie: Nice solves mate, but where's the washing machine?!


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## Selkie (Nov 2, 2017)

Thanks @Shaky Hands and @mark49152

I hadn't realised there was much improvement but I guess I do concentrate more on lookahead than I used to. Still looks quite choppy but I'll blame hands that will be 48 this month. 4 days before WSM Open so perhaps birthday drinks gents!?

I solved the washing machine! hehe. Actually reorganized the study. Unfortunately no other room for the washing machine and tumble dryer 

Looked like a 17/17 in about 2 seconds there mate


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## mark49152 (Nov 3, 2017)

Selkie said:


> Looked like a 17/17 in about 2 seconds there mate


Funny thing with that was, I looked at the cubes and thought "that's not right, they're all in the same orientation" - before registering that they were unscrambled. I told Andy afterwards and he said he'd seen it the same way!


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## newtonbase (Nov 3, 2017)

Selkie said:


> 4 days before WSM Open so perhaps birthday drinks gents!?


Well I wouldn't normally drink on a competition weekend and I think @Shaky Hands is the same but I'm sure we can manage a half for your birthday


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## pglewis (Nov 3, 2017)

I have catching up to do with the videos but that's actually nice, I get a mini-binge session coming up. 



mark49152 said:


> IMHO it's all part of the same recognition. I recognize the overall pattern, rather than CP first. Of course when you spot a block next to an adjacent or opposite corner colour, you are effectively recognising CP. Distinguishing V perm or A perm from the two sides with the block is a good example. If one of the blocks is next to an adjacent colour corner, it's an A perm; but I dont find myself thinking "hey the CP is an adjacent corner swap, what do I see next?"



I certainly hope it becomes so fully automatic it "just happens" at some point. I do have enough solves under my belt that I've noticed I occasionally don't even know how I recognized the PLL, some instinct building from pure repetition that I can't always analyze. If I'm lucky, one day that'll be 100%.


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## Shaky Hands (Nov 3, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> Well I wouldn't normally drink on a competition weekend and I think @Shaky Hands is the same but I'm sure we can manage a half for your birthday



Classic.


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## Selkie (Nov 3, 2017)

@mark49152 - You know what, that was also my very first though and instantly reminded me of an incident where all the orientations were the same I think for a Mascow attempt. Took about 6 seconds to think, erm heh wait...


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## Logiqx (Nov 3, 2017)

Talking about PLL recognition, I added some notes on my algs site some time back.

Click the images for more information - http://cubing.mikeg.me.uk/algs/2spll.html

The grid view isn't a bad way to test yourself either.

Just hover the mouse pointer over the image to see the case name.


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## newtonbase (Nov 3, 2017)

Logiqx said:


> Talking about PLL recognition, I added some notes on my algs site some time back.
> 
> Click the images for more information - http://cubing.mikeg.me.uk/algs/2spll.html
> 
> ...


Very nice. Thanks


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## Jason Green (Nov 4, 2017)

Logiqx said:


> Talking about PLL recognition, I added some notes on my algs site some time back.
> 
> Click the images for more information - http://cubing.mikeg.me.uk/algs/2spll.html
> 
> ...


That's nice. Could you make it where a long press on mobile pops up the alg on grid view?


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## mafergut (Nov 4, 2017)

I received this week two of my latest acquisitions. Lanlan Face-Turning Octahedron and Calvin / TomZ Constrained Cube Ultimate. Both nice solves but easier than I thought.



Have you guys heard anything about the new Aosu GTS M 4x4 by Moyu? Not that I'm thinking on buying it but, just out of curiosity. The ones I wanted to get were the Yuexiao Pro M and the QiYi WuXia M but I cannot justify to myself buying any more speed 2x2 and 3x3 when I'm, well, not getting any faster for the last year or two  I prefer to spend the money on new non-WCA puzzles like some cuboids or similar.


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## mark49152 (Nov 4, 2017)

UKC BLD part 3. Official PB by 43 seconds!


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## h2f (Nov 4, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> UKC BLD part 3. Official PB by 43 seconds!



Impressive jump.


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## Selkie (Nov 5, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> UKC BLD part 3. Official PB by 43 seconds!



Great work mate!


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## phreaker (Nov 5, 2017)

Update from me:

Using GANS SMs as mains right now.

PB: 34.274 (OH, full step.) (I have a 35.xx with a mini valk also... that's a nice cube, and I may have to try to mag one up, but I like my SM right now...)

My OH times are now faster than my 2H, and I'm suffering from some 2H amnesia, time to time.

4x4: Some progress, but not much... Still ~4m.
5x5: ~6:20 expected.. but can get down to ~5:20.
6x6: 11:XX is where I should be if I can get the solve to go smooth.

BLD: Practicing more, I need to setup my second SM for BLD/2H. My current setup isn't there... But I like a stiffer cube for 2H vs. OH. I'm working on converting from PAO -> standard word list. Working on pure corner memo right now. I have an alternative edge memo I may stick with, or if my wordlist gets better... I may use it. Not even doing full attempts right now.


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## JohnnyReggae (Nov 6, 2017)

phreaker said:


> Using GANS SMs as mains right now.


I've just gotten myself the GAN SM as the cube company hosting our latest competition was having a special on. I'm struggling with the shades as the red is so similar to the bright fluro orange on the original Air. Also I thought it was supposed to be quieter than the original Air, but I'm not convinced. My current Air is a fair amount quieter, although it does have a few thousand solves on it.

As for the cube, I've swapped to the Purple GES nuts which I've been using in my standard AIR and the cube performs well. The magnets are a great strength for me. The original price is not worth it IMO, but at the discount I got it for at the comp it was worth it. I don't like it for OH though, it still flexes to much. It will be my 2H main.


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## JohnnyReggae (Nov 6, 2017)

Just finished up my first solo Delegate competition yesterday, Speedcubes Cape Town 2017. The competition went very well, although a little smaller in numbers than previous competitions. A few of the faster guys were not in attendance mostly because of end-year school exams in progress ATM. This did give a few of the faster fringe guys a chance to get into the podium positions which IMO does well for encouraging them to continue trying harder.

On a personal note I managed single PB's in 2x2 and 3x3 and single and average PB's for OH. Overall I managed a 3rd place for 3x3 and a 1st place for OH in the finals. Despite this I was quite disappointed with my 3x3 and 2x2 showings in general as my times were quite inconsistent.

Looking forward to Delegating at the next competition ... hopefully soon.


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## Selkie (Nov 6, 2017)

I do wish GANS would bring out stickerless. I had the 256 v1 and v2 and liked them a lot but have real recognition issues on stickered cubes now. I do love stickerless cubes but there are a couple of drawbacks . One being the one I have mentioned about not having access to some puzzles that dont come in stickerless and the other is being stuck with the plastic colour. Luckily most manufacturers actually have some nice stickerless colour contrast now.

Some 4x4 today and a PB Ao12:-

Average of 12: 56.74
Times...


Spoiler



1. 54.80 R2 B2 L R' B2 F' f' D' f2 L2 D u2 f' F' U2 u2 f' U' D L2 B R2 u D r R L2 D' L' R2 r' f2 F' R L2 D2 f2 F R2 r2 
2. 55.14 U u2 D' f' r u f2 L' F f' U2 L2 r' U' u2 r B r U2 f2 B L2 r2 B' r B D' f' F2 B' r F R2 u2 R F D r D2 B 
3. 57.78 F2 u F' u' f' u R F2 f2 r2 R' U' f L' U2 B' L' u2 f2 U' f' D' R' u' D' F' U F2 B L2 U' L' D B u U L' f' r2 B' 
4. 56.36 R2 U' f' B F2 r u' D' B u' D2 R' f' B L B' F' D f2 U' L U F' f u2 f' L' F R2 F' D2 R' D F2 D' u2 r D' F' r 
5. 57.65 r' B2 L2 D F' u f R' B' D' u F L2 B L' D' U u2 R' U2 L' R2 U f' B' L B' r' R2 f2 r u r' R' f u' r2 U F B2 
6. 1:01.45 U' B u U' R' D r' F U2 f' u f B2 F' R u2 r' D2 u R r2 L2 B' u R f2 u' F U' r' f' L' u R2 U F' D' u2 B F2 
7. (50.67) r2 F f' U2 u2 r U' B' U F2 U L' u L2 B' u' f2 u U2 D R' U' f u2 U2 R2 U B' R' u' D' U' F R f2 D B' L f' U2 
8. (1:08.67) B2 R2 D2 U r' B' F L U r' u2 F' B u2 B' f2 r2 U L' F2 L F2 f2 B' R2 r2 f' u2 B2 R2 u2 r D r2 F' r F' r' f' U2 
9. 1:01.34 L' R2 f2 L' r2 F2 R L2 r2 U2 F L2 U' f R2 u' F2 R B u' B' F' D2 B R2 r2 u2 f' r B U2 f2 D' B2 u' U2 f' D u2 B' 
10. 54.03 F2 U2 f2 u' f r f' L2 f F' L2 U2 u D2 L u' U2 F' D2 L F' R' F2 R D2 L R' D F' U B r' R' f u U' B2 f' L B 
11. 55.52 L' B2 D' F' f B' D' B' U R' B L f L F2 U2 r2 U2 B D2 F f L' f2 B D2 R' u2 L2 r' f' U2 r D' B2 R2 D2 B' F r' 
12. 53.37 F2 r D' F U F L2 U2 F' U2 D B2 u R r L u2 D B2 D2 F2 u D2 U2 F D' B2 R' U2 r U' r' B2 R F2 r2 D B' R' U2


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## mark49152 (Nov 6, 2017)

@Selkie : I recently bought a stickerless YueXiao Pro by accident. I thought it might be an opportunity to try to adapt to stickerless cubes, but I just can't do it. I find the plastic shades just too insipid compared to stickers with a nice black contrast around them. I'm not sure whether it's the colours themselves or the lack of black framing.

It's funny you mention you have recognition issues the other way around. It never occurred to me that might happen.


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## phreaker (Nov 6, 2017)

JohnnyReggae said:


> I've just gotten myself the GAN SM as the cube company hosting our latest competition was having a special on. I'm struggling with the shades as the red is so similar to the bright fluro orange on the original Air. Also I thought it was supposed to be quieter than the original Air, but I'm not convinced. My current Air is a fair amount quieter, although it does have a few thousand solves on it.



The AIR is quieter IMHO, if you turn accurately. If not, the SM will be quieter.

Also how much noise the SM makes is VERY lube dependent. The SM reacts really strongly to lube as far as I can tell. My two are setup differently... and they show it.

2H: Lubicle 1 on the tracks, DNM-37 on the pieces. - Clear nuts.
OH: 10k + DNM-37 on the tracks. - Green nuts.

The 2H is really quick and crisp. I like it. The OH is a bit gummy and smoother, which I like for OH. I don't like cubes that feel like they are "sticky" like the SM can out of the box.



> As for the cube, I've swapped to the Purple GES nuts which I've been using in my standard AIR and the cube performs well. The magnets are a great strength for me. The original price is not worth it IMO, but at the discount I got it for at the comp it was worth it. I don't like it for OH though, it still flexes to much. It will be my 2H main.



Interesting... I think the Blues are supposed to be the strength of the old purples? The nuts cover a wider range than they used to. And yes, I got a pretty good discount on mine... I also know I like Gan cubes in general.

As far as flex, for OH: I haven't found it that flexy, once I got the lube + springs right. But realize my previous main was a GTS2M (self done magnets.).



Selkie said:


> I do wish GANS would bring out stickerless. I had the 256 v1 and v2 and liked them a lot but have real recognition issues on stickered cubes now. I do love stickerless cubes but there are a couple of drawbacks . One being the one I have mentioned about not having access to some puzzles that dont come in stickerless and the other is being stuck with the plastic colour. Luckily most manufacturers actually have some nice stickerless colour contrast now.



It took me a bit to get my times on SM. But the recognition came... It just took me a bit before my brain clicked across to using stickers again. I have all stickerless big cubes, so I now practice with both.


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## Selkie (Nov 6, 2017)

@mark49152 - The green plastic is the stickerless YueXiao is awful, far too close to the yellow in my opinion. Moyu and Qiyi have good shades though.

@mark49152 & @phreaker - I think it is down to what you get used to. Spend some time on the other and the recognition will come. That said I never got used to white cube stickered but perhaps I did not give it enough time.

I do know I just prefer everything on stickerless now and the benefits outweigh the drawbacks for me. Would still like a new GANS though though it would have to be very good to replace my Cubicle Labs GTS2M 

The cubes I really want are the 6x6M and 7x7M. The 4x4 and 5x5 gave me an instant reduction in times.


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## JohnnyReggae (Nov 6, 2017)

phreaker said:


> The AIR is quieter IMHO, if you turn accurately. If not, the SM will be quieter.
> 
> Also how much noise the SM makes is VERY lube dependent. The SM reacts really strongly to lube as far as I can tell. My two are setup differently... and they show it.
> 
> ...



The Air SM came fairly lubed which I want to work through before I start with my standard lube which is Silk and DNM37. I'm going to do a couple hundred solves before I clean it out and give it a good lube. Will see how it is then compared to my original Air.

My OH cube happens to be a stickerless GTS2 with my own DIY magnets. I used N38 5x1.5mm which are a fair amount stronger than what is generally used in the factory M cubes and the Cubicle Strong cubes. The cube holds it's shape nicely when doing OH.



Selkie said:


> @mark49152 - The green plastic is the stickerless YueXiao is awful, far too close to the yellow in my opinion. Moyu and Qiyi have good shades though.
> ...
> I do know I just prefer everything on stickerless now and the benefits outweigh the drawbacks for me. Would still like a new GANS though though it would have to be very good to replace my Cubicle Labs GTS2M
> 
> The cubes I really want are the 6x6M and 7x7M. The 4x4 and 5x5 gave me an instant reduction in times.


I'd agree with the stickerless green on the YueXiao. It's terrible .... not sure what the shades on the Pro are like but I hope they have changed from the original YueXiao. Waiting for mine to arrive.

I'd love GAN to do a stickerless 3x3, I think I'd swap to it quickly. I love the GAN puzzles, but I've started to like stickerless puzzles more these days. Waiting for my stickerless 4x4, 5x5, and 6x6 to arrive. Although I do have a stickerless WuQue which I'm not much of a fan of, even with magnets.


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## phreaker (Nov 6, 2017)

JohnnyReggae said:


> The Air SM came fairly lubed which I want to work through before I start with my standard lube which is Silk and DNM37. I'm going to do a couple hundred solves before I clean it out and give it a good lube. Will see how it is then compared to my original Air.



I've got some Silk... How would you describe it? I'm wanting to figure out what to mix it with to produce feel I like.



> My OH cube happens to be a stickerless GTS2 with my own DIY magnets. I used N38 5x1.5mm which are a fair amount stronger than what is generally used in the factory M cubes and the Cubicle Strong cubes. The cube holds it's shape nicely when doing OH.



I used to use a GTS2M (magnets similar to yours) with Valk springs. (I really recommend Valk springs in a GTS2M for OH... The cube can full cut OH, no problem. I'm still not sold I've made the right choice going to the SM... But I want to give the SM a good try before I go try the GTS2M again.)



> I'd agree with the stickerless green on the YueXiao. It's terrible .... not sure what the shades on the Pro are like but I hope they have changed from the original YueXiao. Waiting for mine to arrive.



The original YueXiao shades were horrific... ugh.



> I'd love GAN to do a stickerless 3x3, I think I'd swap to it quickly. I love the GAN puzzles, but I've started to like stickerless puzzles more these days. Waiting for my stickerless 4x4, 5x5, and 6x6 to arrive. Although I do have a stickerless WuQue which I'm not much of a fan of, even with magnets.



I'd love a stickerless gan... Almost tempted to look into modding one, to see if it can be done without making too big a mess... But I haven't had time. And besides learning stickered recognition again is nice.


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## moralsh (Nov 6, 2017)

Had half a comp this past weekend (I could attend only 1 of the 2 days) and surprisingly had PBs on 3x, 4x and 5x (I only expected the last one)

3x: finaly broke sub 19 even though I started with a 20 +2, can't wait now for sub 18 to come 
4x: broke sub 1:10 with 7/10 parities, so pretty happy with that, my JukiMods Wuque was the difference, that cube is close to perfection.
5x: shaved another 10 seconds of my average (2:16.96 now IIRC) and almost hit sub 2 single, 2:00.016, that was close. Again the Juki Wushuang was perfect. Need to edit some videos from this comp and from Spanish nationals one of these days.

watching @mark49152 motivates me to keep doing some blind but I have to rethink my whole system if I want to stop failing.

That and practice, I guess.


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## mark49152 (Nov 6, 2017)

moralsh said:


> watching @mark49152 motivates me to keep doing some blind but I have to rethink my whole system if I want to stop failing.


Sounds drastic. What's wrong with your system?


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## JohnnyReggae (Nov 6, 2017)

phreaker said:


> I've got some Silk... How would you describe it? I'm wanting to figure out what to mix it with to produce feel I like.
> 
> I used to use a GTS2M (magnets similar to yours) with Valk springs. (I really recommend Valk springs in a GTS2M for OH... The cube can full cut OH, no problem. I'm still not sold I've made the right choice going to the SM... But I want to give the SM a good try before I go try the GTS2M again.)
> 
> ...


Silk for me is slightly gummy, so it helps slow things down a little by making the pieces stick together a little more, so on the internals I think it works really well. DNM37 on the pieces is simply amazing. If there was only a single lube I could use it would be DNM37 for sure.

I have a spare Valk that I can take the springs out of and give them a go on the GTS2 ... you have me intrigued ... I think I'd like to give that a go to be honest.

I use the stickerless GTS2 and the stickered GAN interchangeably at the moment which has helped with switching recognition between stickerless and stickered. Although having said that the change in shades between the original Air and the SM has thrown me a little. That fluro red on the SM is so close to the bright fluro orange on the original Air that I've had to do a little more thinking with the SM.


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## phreaker (Nov 6, 2017)

JohnnyReggae said:


> Silk for me is slightly gummy, so it helps slow things down a little by making the pieces stick together a little more, so on the internals I think it works really well. DNM37 on the pieces is simply amazing. If there was only a single lube I could use it would be DNM37 for sure.
> 
> I have a spare Valk that I can take the springs out of and give them a go on the GTS2 ... you have me intrigued ... I think I'd like to give that a go to be honest.



Silk sounds nice for what I use 10k + DNM-37. Interesting.

I went to Valk springs so I could get enough travel to allow the cube to be full cutting.. I couldn't set up the GTS2 well without them. At the comp, some people could even feel something "Valky" about the cube. The springs are not an exact fit... you'll need to play with it a bit.. But they do work .


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## One Wheel (Nov 6, 2017)

Selkie said:


> The cubes I really want are the 6x6M and 7x7M. The 4x4 and 5x5 gave me an instant reduction in times.



6x6 is a pain to magnetize, but doable if you don't mind fiddling with it for a few hours. 7x7 really isn't too hard. 3x the magnets of a 3x3, so roughly 3x the work, but not really any more complicated if you've got the right magnets. Both 6x6 and 7x7 are, in my opinion, well worth the effort to magnetize. If you do a Wuji (which I recommend) you can't do bigger than 4x1 in the corners, but those fit just fine.


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## moralsh (Nov 7, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> Sounds drastic. What's wrong with your system?



I've been making words on the go with letter pairs and they rarely turn up as good images, I also have lost practice with roman rooms because I don't use them at all in 3BLD and 4BLD and very little on 5BLD.

I want to at least make a list with good images to have something to fall back on, and work from there. I also want to begin practicing multi, 3/5 in 37 should not be my level.

Biggest problem is I'm having fun lately with 4x and 5x, but I'll get back to more blind practice.


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## moralsh (Nov 7, 2017)

Selkie said:


> The cubes I really want are the 6x6M and 7x7M. The 4x4 and 5x5 gave me an instant reduction in times.



Chris, a very good friend magnetizes cubes here in spain, I've been helping him lately with the web (soon to be translated) and I have all the cubes he offers (2x to 7x) 4x and 5x have turned into instant PBs, 6x and 7x I haven't had the chance yet, but they're performing great at home.

He sells a pack with both cubes (http://jukimods.com/productos/pack67.html ) for 180€ please tell me if you are interested so I can help both of you


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## mark49152 (Nov 7, 2017)

moralsh said:


> I want to at least make a list with good images to have something to fall back on, and work from there.


Yeah that makes a big difference. Anki is good for learning images. I have several bad ones I need to change...


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## Logiqx (Nov 9, 2017)

FYI. I uploaded a video of the fastest podium to date.

https://www.speedsolving.com/forum/threads/fastest-podium-rubiks-cube-6-70-7-13-7-23.66916/


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## mitja (Nov 9, 2017)

I magnetised 6x6 Wuhua yesterday. When i saw those small openings that don't fit even 3mm ,I thought it will be a disaster, but on the end it was quite fun. The cube feels very nice, as good as 5x5M. Also did a spring swap with a bit softer springs


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## One Wheel (Nov 10, 2017)

mitja said:


> I magnetised 6x6 Wuhua yesterday. When i saw those small openings that don't fit even 3mm ,I thought it will be a disaster, but on the end it was quite fun. The cube feels very nice, as good as 5x5M. Also did a spring swap with a bit softer springsView attachment 8578 View attachment 8579


 They really did do a number on those pieces. If the inner baffles were taken out it looks like it would be wide open for magnets even bigger than 4mm. I'd love to see what kind of effect 5 or 6mm wide magnets would have in a big cube. 

I'm glad you're happy with the result. I look forward to hearing what you think of the G6 M if you ever get to that.

Does anybody here have a Wuhua V2 to compare? I'd love to know if they made the new version easier to magnetize.


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## pglewis (Nov 10, 2017)

Not a lot of practice lately between work and experimenting with a timer as a pet programming project. It'll be two steps back when I return to bld again . 



mark49152 said:


> Funny thing with that was, I looked at the cubes and thought "that's not right, they're all in the same orientation" - before registering that they were unscrambled. I told Andy afterwards and he said he'd seen it the same way!



Okay, finally got around to this and I'm getting suspicious you're staging this stuff just to land on the "best reactions" videos.  

Seriously though, pure gold.


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## JohnnyReggae (Nov 10, 2017)

mitja said:


> I magnetised 6x6 Wuhua yesterday. When i saw those small openings that don't fit even 3mm ,I thought it will be a disaster, but on the end it was quite fun. The cube feels very nice, as good as 5x5M. Also did a spring swap with a bit softer springsView attachment 8578 View attachment 8579


Waiting for my new WuHua to arrive and want to do this. A couple of questions ... which magnets did you use in the end ? and looking at the pic with the separate pieces .... with each "line" that you have does the polarity flow right through from left to right ?


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## mitja (Nov 10, 2017)

JohnnyReggae said:


> Waiting for my new WuHua to arrive and want to do this. A couple of questions ... which magnets did you use in the end ? and looking at the pic with the separate pieces .... with each "line" that you have does the polarity flow right through from left to right ?


About the process. First, I did the inner 4x4 part,( inside layer between inner wings)used 3x1 N50 and 3x2N50 magnets. I combined because 3x1 are very week and 3x2 that i got are from ebay and have no idea how strog their N50 is, probably more close to N35. The next 4x4 part( next layer between inner and outer wings) should be the strongest magnets, but 4mm cannot fit( i planned 4x2 N38) so just used 3x2N50 and decided to improvise with stronger outer layer ( 3x3 part) combined 4x2N42 in corners and 3x2N50 in outer wings. Ond end the 3x3 layer is quite strong but I like it. The second layer is weaker and the middle is good. the overall strenght of leyer is correct, the distribution of strenght between layers is up to personal preference.
About magnets polarity:
If i speak from inner layer to out. When you do second stage the polarity neds to reverse so the 4x4 polarity goes NS SN. the third stage just keep polarity in line ( no reverse).just like when you do 3x3. So all toogether NS SN SN
But I belive you did it correct on the photo you published on magnets thread https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bxhjd6HVoV6kbmlKVFJSR3NqYzA/view
I will do it different with g6 as there are bigger openings. I believe G6 design is better for inner layers . The distribution on all three layers in G6 is much more even. Qiji has more problems with all bigger cubes central parts. Their design makes inner layers tight and outer lite, so they have very good 3x3 stage but not the rest. I was solving this prolem by making springs softer in 4x4-6x6 cubes( didn't try 7x7 yet) it is perfect in 4x4 and let's say Ok in 5x5, 6x6.


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## mitja (Nov 10, 2017)

One Wheel said:


> They really did do a number on those pieces. If the inner baffles were taken out it looks like it would be wide open for magnets even bigger than 4mm. I'd love to see what kind of effect 5 or 6mm wide magnets would have in a big cube.
> 
> I'm glad you're happy with the result. I look forward to hearing what you think of the G6 M if you ever get to that.
> 
> Does anybody here have a Wuhua V2 to compare? I'd love to know if they made the new version easier to magnetize.


I was tempted to use cutters and cut that plastic wall, but I guess it has purpose, probably for overall structure stability?
Anyway 6x6M is much better than non M cube. But, G6 feels so good. I wonder how it will be with magnets. I will use N38 4x2 for second layer N35 4x2 for outer, but I cannot decide about inner yet. 3x1is too week. Maybe a combo of 3x1N50 and 4x2n35 if it fits. It would be interesting to try bigger 5mm magnets. They could distribute force nicely.
It is always a gamble when you put that many magnets in a big cube, how the tightness will change. First change I need to do is loosen the screws. The result can be pops and I don't want that. So My system: I cut a piece of the spring, it gets shorter and weaker. That way i get the cube loose but can screw it toogether enough to have less pops and still have loose and fast turning. I compensate for shorter spring by adding washer from plastic. The few mm of cut lollipop stick fits perfect in Qiji cubes.


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## mafergut (Nov 10, 2017)

Hi guys! I did an experiment today. I was thinking about how much newer cubes are really helping my times and what part of the very slight improvement over the past couple of years was me and what part was the cube. I also have said here that in new cubes, squared off corners increase catching at times for me and I don't think the trade off for less corner twists is worth it.

So I took out my last main 3x3 before I started to move to recent cubes like the Valk3 and the GTS2/GST2M. This is a Congs Design Yueying. It took me like 10 solves to adjust to stickers again but after that I did a ful Ao50 with it and, for the 1st half of it I was 2-3 tenths below my current PB Ao50 (17.79) but I spoiled the streak around solves 30-40, improving a bit again in the last 10 for an Ao50 of 17.98, which is just 2 tenths above my PB and surely way better than anything I had done before on my Yueying (which I stopped using more than 1 year ago).

Conclusion: Improving or not improving... it's me, not the cube  Maybe a Yuexiao Pro / Pro M would be a good cube for me if the stickerless shades are better than in the original Yuexiao. And, by the way, I had no corner twists whatsoever in the whole Ao50 so... what are these squared corners for really?


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## efattah (Nov 10, 2017)

Got video (3x3) of a 13.29 Mo3 and 14.13 Ao5 today:





Neither were PB's, but fastest on cam (I don't take videos very often...)


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## Selkie (Nov 11, 2017)

@moralsh - Thanks Raul, I will bear that in mind mate though it will probably have to wait until after Christmas. Two teenagers Christmas lists will unfortunately trump man toys


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## mafergut (Nov 11, 2017)

Today I had some spare hours, as I was home alone with my kid and decided to start recording videos for my YouTube channel more frequently. I have decided to do then in Spanish, but I'm including English subtitles as well. The change from English to Spanish is because I think it will be easier for the thousands of new Spanish subscribers I'll get with the new content .

For my first video I have chosen a review and solve (not a complete tutorial) of the TomZ Constrained Ultimate. Hope you like it and, please, leave suggestions about camera angle, video and audio quality (not very good, to be honest), language preference and whatever else that comes to mind, as well as ideas for future videos.


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## pglewis (Nov 12, 2017)

efattah said:


> Got video (3x3) of a 13.29 Mo3 and 14.13 Ao5 today:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I don't even want to peek at your method thread because I like that it appears to be voodoo to me


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## pglewis (Nov 12, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> Yeah that makes a big difference. Anki is good for learning images. I have several bad ones I need to change...



I still haven't setup Anki, could you see any use for something Anki-like as a web-based tool? Any highly needed tools for blindsolving in general that come to mind? I've already mentioned I'd really like to make a letter-pair/image sharing DB but that's definitely a bit down the road. 

My nebulous idea is a single site that has all the solving tools you want in one place. I'm collabing with someone on a timer prototype for starters. The world doesn't really need another web timer but it's a must have tool and a good foothold for getting things started. We're getting the MVP features for the timer going, though, so I'll be looking to experiment with a few other tools soon. 

[Tech side for the curious, we're pretty much all JS with a node/Express backend. The tools themselves are going to be client-heavy because I want everything to be able to function offline as much as possible. We haven't incorporated persistent server-side storage at all yet but plan to use a relational DB (probably postgres). We may also incorporate a NoSQL type document database, as is all the rage... but in conjunction if it is a solution to an existing problem. Timing sessions alone can turn into a lot of solve data quickly and I think we're going to want need a relational DB for the aggregation muscle.]


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## pglewis (Nov 14, 2017)

Two-sided PLL recog is a fairly easy one so I spun up a prototype for that.


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## newtonbase (Nov 15, 2017)

It's gone really quiet on here. I guess Facebook and now Discord are having an effect. 

I think I'm going to retire from big cubes in comp. They take too much practice time and I haven't enjoyed competing knowing I have no chance of a third solve. Cut off times are going down but my own are not. It'll be less stress simply not entering.


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## Shaky Hands (Nov 15, 2017)

Not sure about the rest of the world but UK cutoff times for 4x4 and 5x5 have been the same for a while except for at the London and Crawley comps and UKC. The 6x6 and 7x7 cutoffs at WSM were reduced but have been returned to the original levels.

Wish that 6x6 and 7x7 cutoffs were at the previous times for Dublin as it’s one of the reasons I’m unlikely to go.


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## newtonbase (Nov 15, 2017)

Shaky Hands said:


> Not sure about the rest of the world but UK cutoff times for 4x4 and 5x5 have been the same for a while except for at the London and Crawley comps and UKC. The 6x6 and 7x7 cutoffs at WSM were reduced but have been returned to the original levels.
> 
> Wish that 6x6 and 7x7 cutoffs were at the previous times for Dublin as it’s one of the reasons I’m unlikely to go.


I can't even do the old 5x5 times so 4x4 will be my limit after WSM (unless I learn 5bld).


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## openseas (Nov 15, 2017)

Well, then, 5bld it is.

Not much learning (well at least for a mere M2/U2/r2 user) required for 5bld.


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## newtonbase (Nov 15, 2017)

openseas said:


> Well, then, 5bld it is.
> 
> Not much learning (well at least for a mere M2/U2/r2 user) required for 5bld.


It's definitely on the long term wish list. We'll see how 4BLD goes at WSM to see how long term. Is it your 2 comp weekend this week?


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## One Wheel (Nov 15, 2017)

I guess you guys are just going to have to start crossing the pond to come to competitions. I believe organizers and delegates have a fair amount of latitude picking cutoff times here.

I need to check the availability of the venue, but I'm seriously considering organizing a big-cubes-only comp near me with generous cutoff times. I'd like to go to a comp, but travel is proving to be a serious obstacle, and I figure if I'm going to go need to do it myself, and if I'm doing the work of setting it up I'm going to push for cutoffs that make it likely that I'll get averages. That would mean at minimum 1:45/3:00/5:00/8:00, and I'd love to do even more generous times for 4 and 5 to get some newer or slower cubers started on big cubes. We'll see if it happens. Either late January or early February, or I'll see if I still want to do it the same time next year.


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## mark49152 (Nov 15, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> I think I'm going to retire from big cubes in comp. They take too much practice time and I haven't enjoyed competing knowing I have no chance of a third solve. Cut off times are going down but my own are not. It'll be less stress simply not entering.


No need to get stressed. Just relax and enter for the hell of it since you're in the same room anyway. It's difficult to find time to practise everything but there's no need to deny yourself a bit of fun and a chance of a single PB. 

5BLD is indeed not a lot more to learn over 4BLD, since U2 for T centres is similar. However, it's very unforgiving. There's a lot to memo accurately and it's more fiddly to solve. Getting DNF after DNF can be very demoralizing especially when they take 30-40 minutes each. My suggestion would be to really get comfortable at 4BLD before moving up. That way you stand a better chance of hitting the ground running with 5BLD.


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## openseas (Nov 15, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> It's definitely on the long term wish list. We'll see how 4BLD goes at WSM to see how long term. Is it your 2 comp weekend this week?



Yes, this weekend, two BLD comps. Hopefully, I can make some success in 4BLD.


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## Lid (Nov 15, 2017)

Finally beat my 6+ year old 3x3 single ...

*10.751* B2 D2 L2 F' L2 F2 R2 B' R2 B' D' R2 B2 D' L' R U' B R2 D2 R2

y2 D' U' L U' x' U' R' F D /Cross
U R U R' d' L U L' /1
U' L' U L /2
d' L' U L /3
y L' U' L U L' U L /4
R U2 R2 F R F' R U2 R' /OLL
y' R2 U R U R' U' R' U' R' U R' /PLL
53 STM = 4.93 etps


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## Jason Green (Nov 15, 2017)

openseas said:


> Yes, this weekend, two BLD comps. Hopefully, I can make some success in 4BLD.


Looking forward to Sunday. Still not positive I'll do multi, I probably will give it a shot. I guess I should try once at home at least.


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## newtonbase (Nov 16, 2017)

Jason Green said:


> Looking forward to Sunday. Still not positive I'll do multi, I probably will give it a shot. I guess I should try once at home at least.


Might as well try it. You could go for 4 to give you 40 mins of time but only solve 2 which will give you a result.


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## mafergut (Nov 16, 2017)

Hi again guys. Not much time to practise lately because... I'm spending my spare time on recording cubing videos 
Here you have my second installment since I created my QBAndo channel. I uploaded it some days ago but it was not until today that I found time to subtitle it in English for you to enjoy it (I hope).

This time I talk about how to apply old algs to new cubes to help developing solving strategies for them. Fully inspired on SuperAntoniovivaldi stuff and videos.


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## Jason Green (Nov 16, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> Might as well try it. You could go for 4 to give you 40 mins of time but only solve 2 which will give you a result.


I guess I don't even know the rules completely. Is it max 10 minutes per cube up to 60 minutes? You get a point for each solve minus one for each failure I thought. So if I got 2 for 4 wouldn't that be 0 points?


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## mark49152 (Nov 16, 2017)

Jason Green said:


> I guess I don't even know the rules completely. Is it max 10 minutes per cube up to 60 minutes? You get a point for each solve minus one for each failure I thought. So if I got 2 for 4 wouldn't that be 0 points?


Correct on both counts. 0 is a valid result. Anything negative is a DNF.


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## Shaky Hands (Nov 16, 2017)

Yeah what Mark says is correct although a 1/2 (0 score) is now explicitly a DNF although this was not always so. The theory is in a 1/2 you haven’t successfully solved multiple cubes blindfolded.


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## Mike Hughey (Nov 16, 2017)

Jason Green said:


> I guess I don't even know the rules completely. Is it max 10 minutes per cube up to 60 minutes? You get a point for each solve minus one for each failure I thought. So if I got 2 for 4 wouldn't that be 0 points?


Yes, that would be 0 points, but it would still be a valid (non-DNF) result. 1/2 is a DNF (because you didn't solve multiple cubes blinfolded), but 2/4 is a valid result.

Edit: I'm too slow typing on this phone - totally ninjaed by you guys. Sorry for repeating the obvious.


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## mark49152 (Nov 16, 2017)

Yeah thanks Shaky & Mike, that was an important bit of info I missed out there!


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## newtonbase (Nov 16, 2017)

@openseas and @Jason Green have an excellent chance of witnessing a WR or 2 falling this weekend. I'm very jealous.


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## muchacho (Nov 18, 2017)

I'm practicing OH, not that I'm gonna reach my goal (I think I said sub-25 average before 2018) but at least I'll try to improve a bit.

New PBs:
Ao12: 25.399 (was 25.748 from June)
Mo100: 28.450 (was 29.063 from July)


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## newtonbase (Nov 18, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> @openseas and @Jason Green have an excellent chance of witnessing a WR or 2 falling this weekend. I'm very jealous.


You must be very proud @openseas!


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## openseas (Nov 19, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> You must be very proud @openseas!



Thanks, Mark. We'll see how it goes (logo debate)

Any way, as advertised and expected(!), tons of BLD records today.
Angelo started off with WR mean (22.36) from the very first round. Unfortunately, nobody recorded his solves, just picture of his scorecard.

Then, Neel quietly made NAR 4BLD single (2:07). Nobody noticed that since it was "quiet event" and most people were working on 3BLD. (The rest of people for other events went out for lunch). When we realized that, every blders like, what? really?

Then, there was "THE FINAL".
The seat was, (from the left), Jeff & Angelo in the same table, Max sitting in the next table. The 3rd attempt, Angelo got 18.80. Many people gathered to (quietly) congratulate his new NAR...but in like 20s span, Max got 18.73, made a new NAR. So, naturally everybody ran to him. After a minute later, Jeff got the 3rd scramble and made 17.35.
It was like 3 consecutive bombing. After 2 sub 19s, it was not gonna be a total crazy thing to have 17s but actually the fact that it did happen was more than imaginable.

So, that was the summary. We still have 3 more 3BLD rounds, 2 more 4BLD rounds. Basically, I was able to watch 2 WRs, 3 NARs (2 doesn't count since it happened in the same day ). We'll see what will happen tomorrow.

For me, I made comp pb but not that good (2:21). For my first official 4BLD, my 2nd (13 something) and 3rd (20 something) was off just by one cycle. Actually, it was my first time did multiple 4BLD attempts in a day let alone 3 attempts in 1 hour. Hopefully, I can get some success tomorrow.


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## newtonbase (Nov 19, 2017)

openseas said:


> Thanks, Mark. We'll see how it goes (logo debate)


Oh no. Logos make no difference to fast blinders so hopefully it will stand.


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## newtonbase (Nov 19, 2017)

Congratulations on the 4BLD success @openseas.


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## pglewis (Nov 19, 2017)

Congrats on the PB 3bld and first official 4bld success, @openseas! 

What happened with Jason? I see his name for 3bld but not even DNS listed.


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## newtonbase (Nov 19, 2017)

pglewis said:


> Congrats on the PB 3bld and first official 4bld success, @openseas!
> 
> What happened with Jason? I see his name for 3bld but not even DNS listed.


I saw that too. Maybe he didn't make it there and the DNS is slow in coming or maybe there's an issue with a solve? Logo?


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## openseas (Nov 19, 2017)

Thanks, guys!

Jason couldn't make the comp, unfortunately.


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## pglewis (Nov 19, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> I saw that too. Maybe he didn't make it there and the DNS is slow in coming or maybe there's an issue with a solve? Logo?



Y'know, I'm glad my OCD simply doesn't like logos. They're rarely on my puzzles for more than a few hours.



openseas said:


> Thanks, guys!
> 
> Jason couldn't make the comp, unfortunately.



Well, bummer .


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## newtonbase (Nov 19, 2017)

openseas said:


> Jason couldn't make the comp, unfortunately.



That's a real shame. Was looking forward to his MBLD attempt.


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## pglewis (Nov 19, 2017)

Still not much news here. Ironically I'm working on a timer but I haven't been doing many timed solves. I did land another sub-20 last night doing timer testing: 19.98 with a PLL fumble and another fumble finding the space-bar. I can still count all my sub 20s on two hands. Also did a bunch of sighted blind practice, went from "wait... which one is 'S' again?" to doing some advanced M2 by the time I was done. 

Still no comps near me holding blindfold events other than early next month but I expect the early 2018 comps will be showing up soon. Time to start getting in shape.


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## Jason Green (Nov 19, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> That's a real shame. Was looking forward to his MBLD attempt.


Yeah I'm really bummed I didn't make it. I'll give more details about my week later. Congrats @openseas for your and Jeff's accomplishments so far. I need to go check cubecomps, there may be more by the time I'm writing this! 

Humbling to think people in Europe are anticipating my events. Although multi was not going to be anything exciting. I think I was going to try two.


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## openseas (Nov 20, 2017)

Jason Green said:


> Yeah I'm really bummed I didn't make it. I'll give more details about my week later. Congrats @openseas for your and Jeff's accomplishments so far. I need to go check cubecomps, there may be more by the time I'm writing this!
> 
> Humbling to think people in Europe are anticipating my events. Although multi was not going to be anything exciting. I think I was going to try two.




Thanks. Not much drama today except Max’s 17.87s 3BLD.

My 4BLD scorecard - the first official success!

For 3BLD, went to the 2nd round but made a stupid mistake. After finished solving, wasn’t sure whether there was a flipped edge or not (probably from the previous MBLD memo)- paused a little bit while then did a one flip. Turned out, no flip, missed sub-2. 1:50 DNF.


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## newtonbase (Nov 20, 2017)

openseas said:


> My 4BLD scorecard - the first official success!


Great result.


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## mark49152 (Nov 20, 2017)

Congrats @openseas on that 4BLD success. Congrats to Jeff too! Sounds like a great weekend.


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## JohnnyReggae (Nov 20, 2017)

Got a new OH PB over the weekend while waiting for my eldest son who was busy with a Karate class .... 

18.46
R2 F2 R' U2 B2 R D2 U2 L' D2 R2 F R B F U F2 D' B2 R2

-----
z2 // inspection
D U' F R' F2 L' D2 // xcross 7
U' R U' R' // 2nd 11
U2' y R U R' U y R' U R // 3rd 19
U' z U' R' U R2 U' R' U z' // 4th 27
U2' F R U R' U' F' // oll 35
U2' R U' R U R U R U' R' U' R2 // pll U-Perm 47

// = 18.46 @ 2.55 tps


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## openseas (Nov 20, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> Great result.





mark49152 said:


> Congrats @openseas on that 4BLD success. Congrats to Jeff too! Sounds like a great weekend.



Thanks, @newtonbase & @mark49152 .

By the time I was about to hit the table, heard some noise, so I thought it's either solved or a close one.
When I took off the blindfold, all those guys, Jake, Ishaan, Max, Riley, Jeff, Tim, Angelo were standing right next to me and watching me completing my first official solve! We celebrated together, what a great moment!


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## mafergut (Nov 20, 2017)

Wow! A lot of news since I last visited  That streak of Sub-19 3BLD singles ending in that incredible 17.xx must have been something to behold, really. I'm envious once again.

Got a new video for you guys! This time it's an unboxing of some of my latest acquisitons. To be honest, I think I'm turning into a cube collector more than a speedsolver  I hope you enjoy it (with English subtitles).


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## mark49152 (Nov 20, 2017)

I'm sad for Jeff, but he's clearly going to be breaking many records in future and I wish him the best. For anybody not aware yet: https://www.worldcubeassociation.or...garding-an-incident-at-longhorn-cube-day-2017

Meanwhile here's my latest triumph.


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## openseas (Nov 21, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> I'm sad for Jeff, but he's clearly going to be breaking many records in future and I wish him the best. For anybody not aware yet: https://www.worldcubeassociation.or...garding-an-incident-at-longhorn-cube-day-2017
> 
> Meanwhile here's my latest triumph.



Thanks, @mark49152 !

Your reaction is so funny when you realized you didn't execute a block, lol.


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## Shaky Hands (Nov 21, 2017)

Unlucky @mark49152, thanks for sharing anyway!


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## newtonbase (Nov 21, 2017)

How did you miss the block @mark49152? Were those rooms in a different area or something?


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## Logiqx (Nov 21, 2017)

openseas said:


> View attachment 8627
> 
> 
> Thanks. Not much drama today except Max’s 17.87s 3BLD.
> ...



I saw the blindfold, looked at the times on the scoresheet and thought... holy cow you've got fast at 3BLD. Circa 20s?

Only after closer inspection did I see it was 4BLD times. I think it was the dots rather than colons in the times.


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## mark49152 (Nov 21, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> How did you miss the block @mark49152? Were those rooms in a different area or something?


For 20 cubes I execute last 4 then first 16 memorized. For 16 cubes I execute last 4 then first 12. I usually use the same rooms so I've got quite used to stopping after the 12th room, but it was careless. I'd be gutted if I did that in comp .

I'm still pleased with it though. My aim is to push my pace. 1:01:34 pace is a big improvement and getting pretty close the hour!


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## openseas (Nov 21, 2017)

Logiqx said:


> I saw the blindfold, looked at the times on the scoresheet and thought... holy cow you've got fast at 3BLD. Circa 20s?
> 
> Only after closer inspection did I see it was 4BLD times. I think it was the dots rather than colons in the times.




Haha, yeah, I should have placed a 3x3 blocking event name to make a perfect crime


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## Jason Green (Nov 22, 2017)

I wanted to let you guys know this because I think of you like family.
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10159563576900425&id=894935424


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## pglewis (Nov 22, 2017)

Jason Green said:


> I wanted to let you guys know this because I think of you like family.
> https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10159563576900425&id=894935424



Words feel so inadequate right now, I'm so very sorry for you and the family Jason.


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## Mike Hughey (Nov 22, 2017)

pglewis said:


> Words feel so inadequate right now, I'm so very sorry for you and the family Jason.


I feel the same - I don't know what to say. Jason, I wish you and your family the best as you deal with such an immense loss.


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## Logiqx (Nov 22, 2017)

Jason Green said:


> I wanted to let you guys know this because I think of you like family.
> https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10159563576900425&id=894935424



This was the first thing I saw today (top of my FB feed) and it is heartbreaking news.

I wish you and the boys all the best at this difficult time.


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## mark49152 (Nov 22, 2017)

I'm lost for words @Jason Green. So very sorry and I wish you and the family well.


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## Selkie (Nov 22, 2017)

Jason Green said:


> I wanted to let you guys know this because I think of you like family.
> https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10159563576900425&id=894935424



I saw this last night and was extremely saddened to hear your news @Jason Green . Our thoughts and prayers are with you, your boys and family at this difficult time.

Whilst I may be 1000's of miles away I would say if there is anything I can do at any any stage please do not hesitate in letting me know buddy.


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## openseas (Nov 22, 2017)

Jason Green said:


> I wanted to let you guys know this because I think of you like family.
> https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10159563576900425&id=894935424



I'm so sorry, Jason. My heart breaks for you and your sons. When you pm’d me about the comp, felt something but didn’t imagine this. I’ll be there this Saturday .


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## CLL Smooth (Nov 22, 2017)

Jason Green said:


> I wanted to let you guys know this because I think of you like family.
> https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10159563576900425&id=894935424


You got lots of love here Jason. Reach out to me if you're ever in Portland again.


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## Jason Green (Nov 22, 2017)

Thank you for all the support guys, it means a lot!


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## JohnnyReggae (Nov 23, 2017)

Jason Green said:


> I wanted to let you guys know this because I think of you like family.
> https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10159563576900425&id=894935424


I am so terribly sorry for your and your family's loss. Reading your Facebook post brought a tear. I cannot do much from down South, but I will send thoughts with the wish that you and your family may remain strong.


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## moralsh (Nov 23, 2017)

Jason Green said:


> Thank you for all the support guys, it means a lot!


you'll get it every time you come here, Jason, as I told you on FB, just ask


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## Shaky Hands (Nov 23, 2017)

Sorry to hear your sad news @Jason Green. My sincerest condolences.


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## Bart Van Eynde (Nov 25, 2017)

We don't know each other @Jason Green, but still my sincere condolences. I wish the very best for you and your family.


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## mafergut (Nov 25, 2017)

I came here to say hello, as I usually do from time to time, because I don't want to lose contact with you guys as I also feel you are like family to me and then I read about your terrible news, @Jason Green and, all of a sudden, tears came to my eyes. I can't even imagine how you must feel right now. I wish you and your kids all the strength in the world and I send you, from this side of the ocean, all my love and support. I don't really know what else to say, I'm still in shock.


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## mark49152 (Nov 26, 2017)

It now seems crass to post something cubing related here, given how trivial it is compared to the important things in life. I hope you and the boys are bearing up, @Jason Green.

Today I went to Weston-super-Mare Open, organised by our very own @Shaky Hands and @Selkie. Great job guys, especially the impressive venue! I can't make it tomorrow so it was just half a comp for me, and it was great to have all the BLD stuff on one day.

It was mostly a poor day for me, especially 3BLD and 4BLD. My home 3BLD form totally deserted me, the first two 4BLD scrambles were hard, and the third 4BLD attempt nearly gave me a 4:38 PB had I not executed the very last comm in the wrong direction - argh! My 21 comp PB streak looked at risk of coming to an end with only one event left, MBLD. Luckily I got a 16/17 PB to claw my day back from the doldrums. The scrambles were pretty hard and my time was comfortable so it felt like a good result. The error was two edge pairs swapped in execution. Almost ready for 20 

As usual it was great catch up with the oldies and everyone else, and I'm already looking forward to the next comp. Congrats on the awesome PBs today guys, and good luck to everyone competing tomorrow!


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## Jason Green (Nov 26, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> It now seems crass to post something cubing related here, given how trivial it is compared to the important things in life. I hope you and the boys are bearing up, @Jason Green.
> 
> Today I went to Weston-super-Mare Open, organised by our very own @Shaky Hands and @Selkie. Great job guys, especially the impressive venue! I can't make it tomorrow so it was just half a comp for me, and it was great to have all the BLD stuff on one day.
> 
> ...


Thank you for posting some cubing stuff, I've been checking back in the evening hoping there was some cubing to read about. You're right it's not the most important thing about life, but it's what brought us here. We had a wonderful service today and I was very thankful @openseas got to come, thanks again Jae! I hope to see a lot of cubing posts soon to brighten my days!


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## pglewis (Nov 26, 2017)

Glad to hear from ya, Jason. I gave a pretty good whoop a little earlier with a 17.85 full-step: 3 move cross, 6-move T-OLL, and Z-Perm. I think that's my 2nd best single and the closest I've gotten to that high 16 outlier I've been sitting on for a while. It's a hollow feeling victory right now, you and the boys are in my heart.


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## mark49152 (Nov 26, 2017)

Here's the final instalment of my BLD from UK Championships. Does anyone care to watch 5BLD vids?


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## newtonbase (Nov 26, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> My 21 comp PB streak looked at risk of coming to an end with only one event left, MBLD. Luckily I got a 16/17 PB to claw my day back from the doldrums. The scrambles were pretty hard and my time was comfortable so it felt like a good result. The error was two edge pairs swapped in execution. Almost ready for 20
> 
> As usual it was great catch up with the oldies and everyone else, and I'm already looking forward to the next comp. Congrats on the awesome PBs today guys, and good luck to everyone competing tomorrow!


You neglected to say that you won! 

As @mark49152 says, Weston-super-Mare has been a fantastic competition. The venue is something else. Hope we get to go there again.
I had mixed results including dead last in skewb and complete failure in 4BLD. I did get a half decent 2:03 in 3BLD which got me 18th place. My last PB of 2:39 got me 6th earlier this year. Blind is getting very good in the UK. The race to sub 2 is still on @openseas. 

Prior to the comp I was choosing whether to go for 5 or 7 in MBLD but I was exhausted so wanted to do 3. Mark had other ideas and persuaded me to do 5. I really enjoyed it and ended up with 3/5 in 38 mins so thanks Mark. I've got to try at least 7 next time.

Really enjoyed catching up with everyone and having a few pints last night. Can't wait for Manchester.


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## mafergut (Nov 26, 2017)

@mark49152 yes, I care to watch 5BLD videos, all the more so if they come from you, or any of the other guys from our little family here!
@Jason Green, I'm happy to see you around here. I haven't met you in real life but I feel like I know you and, since the first time they showed up in one of your vids, I fell in love with your kids 

As you are asking for cubing-related stuff, here I come with yet another video from my channel that has received the subtitling job. This one is a tutorial for the Dino Skewb. I have published yet a new one yesterday but subtitles for that one will take a bit longer as it is a 34min long tutorial (for the Golden Cube, in case you're wondering).


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## mark49152 (Nov 26, 2017)

I've been looking through the results today. Congrats Mark @newtonbase on the nice BLD accomplishments. Looking forward to seeing you get at least 5 points in Guildford 2018 and qualify for Euros 

Also congrats to Andy and Chris for a really impressive set of big cube PBs, especially 6x6. Spectacular stuff. Special congrats to Chris for inching above me in the oldies 4x4 rankings by beating my single and average by 0.05 and 0.07 seconds respectively


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## newtonbase (Nov 26, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> I've been looking through the results today. Congrats Mark @newtonbase on the nice BLD accomplishments. Looking forward to seeing you get at least 5 points in Guildford 2018 and qualify for Euros


Don't think I'm going to either unfortunately.


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## mark49152 (Nov 26, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> Don't think I'm going to either unfortunately.


That's a pity. I think Peterborough has multi and that's plenty of time to practice!


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## openseas (Nov 26, 2017)

@newtonbase / Conrats on your many PBs including 3BLD & MBLD - now you are sub me officially 
BTW, 38min for 5 cubes seems to be a little bit long considering your 3BLD speed - what is your home record for MBLD?


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## newtonbase (Nov 26, 2017)

openseas said:


> @newtonbase / Conrats on your many PBs including 3BLD & MBLD - now you are sub me officially
> BTW, 38min for 5 cubes seems to be a little bit long considering your 3BLD speed - what is your home record for MBLD?


I think my unofficial 5/5 success was a similar time. I could do it more quickly but I had plenty of time so did extra reviews.


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## openseas (Nov 26, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> I think my unofficial 5/5 success was a similar time. I could do it more quickly but I had plenty of time so did extra reviews.



Make sense. I keep failing with 7 cubes during competitions (4/7 for past 3 comps) - I need 5 points to be qualified next US Nats. Not sure whether I need to change my strategy just trying 5. Best at home was 10/10 but it really depends on my mindset these days.


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## mark49152 (Nov 26, 2017)

openseas said:


> Make sense. I keep failing with 7 cubes during competitions (4/7 for past 3 comps) - I need 5 points to be qualified next US Nats. Not sure whether I need to change my strategy just trying 5. Best at home was 10/10 but it really depends on my mindset these days.


What has been the cause of your mistakes?


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## openseas (Nov 26, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> What has been the cause of your mistakes?



Mostly trace - like one flipped edge or twisted corner + always failing miserably the last cubes which I used a normal 3BLD method not room. The last one looked to be execution error.

+
Last two comps were what I organized. So, quite distracted to run the comp & meet the schedule. That could be one more excuse for my failure :-(


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## mark49152 (Nov 26, 2017)

openseas said:


> Mostly trace - like one flipped edge or twisted corner + always failing miserably the last cubes which I used a normal 3BLD method not room. The last one looked to be execution error.


When you review, do you go back and check your memo against the cubes?

No need to do an ordinary 3BLD for the last cube unless you're pushed against the time limit and really need to save those few seconds. I prefer to solve all cubes the same way.


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## openseas (Nov 26, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> When you review, do you go back and check your memo against the cubes?
> 
> No need to do an ordinary 3BLD for the last cube unless you're pushed against the time limit and really need to save those few seconds. I prefer to solve all cubes the same way.



Thanks. Time limit was not the issue - thus, it makes sense, not to stick to the regular 3BLD method. 
I review at least 3 times, 1 & 2, 1 to 2, 3 & 4, 1 through 4, like this. Memo was not the issue but somehow I stick to the wrong trace.


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## newtonbase (Nov 26, 2017)

@openseas I think it makes sense to stick to 7. You have plenty of time to check tracing and memo and you'll have room for an execution error too.

Edit : I wrote that before the last 2 posts.


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## mark49152 (Nov 26, 2017)

openseas said:


> I review at least 3 times, 1 & 2, 1 to 2, 3 & 4, 1 through 4, like this. Memo was not the issue but somehow I stick to the wrong trace.


I'm not sure what's going wrong then. Checking your memo against the cube during review should pick up any tracing mistakes. If you're missing the errors when checking, maybe there's a problem with the way you trace? Do you count targets and breaks so that you know how many flips, twists or solved pieces you need to account for?


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## openseas (Nov 26, 2017)

Oh, when I said flips or twists, it's not I missed flips/twists, mostly I traced opposite colors. BR instead of RB, something like that. Yes, during the review, I always pick up these mistakes but since I was switching to new images (after the corrected letters) - I guess I'm kinda of mixing two images.


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## newtonbase (Nov 26, 2017)

openseas said:


> Oh, when I said flips or twists, it's not I missed flips/twists, mostly I traced opposite colors. BR instead of RB, something like that. Yes, during the review, I always pick up these mistakes but since I was switching to new images (after the corrected letters) - I guess I'm kinda of mixing two images.


I'm the same. I find it terribly difficult to change my memo after spotting a mistake. If it happens in 3BLD I tend to quit as a decent time is impossible and a success unlikely.

Any suggestions for memi/review order in MBLD? For my 5 I just did the whole memo in 1 go then reviewed a few times but that won't work on bigger attempts.


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## mark49152 (Nov 26, 2017)

Yeah I sometimes make mistakes like that. If I find and correct an error during first review, that new memo effectively has had one less review than the rest (unless I remember to go back and give it an extra review on its own, which I never do) and is tainted with residual incorrect memo. Occasionally, if I'm under time pressure, I also fail to check everything properly during first review, especially things like checking that I memoed a corner twist in the right direction.


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## newtonbase (Nov 26, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> Yeah I sometimes make mistakes like that. If I find and correct an error during first review, that new memo effectively has had one less review than the rest (unless I remember to go back and give it an extra review on its own, which I never do) and is tainted with residual incorrect memo. Occasionally, if I'm under time pressure, I also fail to check everything properly during first review, especially things like checking that I memoed a corner twist in the right direction.


I think the lesson here is to get it right in the first place.


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## mark49152 (Nov 26, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> Any suggestions for memi/review order in MBLD? For my 5 I just did the whole memo in 1 go then reviewed a few times but that won't work on bigger attempts.


Most people group cubes into blocks. 4 or 8 are popular sizes. I use 4. For each block I memo all then do the first review of all, including checking against the cube, before moving on to the next pack. I also go back to each block 1-2 times later just to check I recall the memo, but without checking against the cubes again.



newtonbase said:


> I think the lesson here is to get it right in the first place.


You can't trust you'll always get it right first time, no matter how long you take. For me, errors in initial memo are rare, maybe once every 2-3 large attempts, but they do happen.


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## Alex B71 (Nov 27, 2017)

Hey guys, most likely the wrong place to ask but it seems all the UK guys are in this forum.

Does anybody have any info on the next competition that will hold a MBLD event? I've had a look around, i missed out on weston, so i was wondering if anyone had any insider info?


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## newtonbase (Nov 27, 2017)

Alex B71 said:


> Hey guys, most likely the wrong place to ask but it seems all the UK guys are in this forum.
> 
> Does anybody have any info on the next competition that will hold a MBLD event? I've had a look around, i missed out on weston, so i was wondering if anyone had any insider info?


The WCA site is pretty up to date with future competitions. Guildford is the next one https://www.worldcubeassociation.org/competitions/Guildford Open 2018


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## newtonbase (Nov 27, 2017)

Did a 3 cube multi attempt, mainly to try some new rooms. 0/3 in 11:46. Encouraged by the time and nothing was off by too much but I've now run out of house for new rooms. Going to have to go back to old residences.


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## mark49152 (Nov 27, 2017)

Here's my multi PB from Saturday.

I keep a spreadsheet to log and analyse all my MBLD practice attempts, including splits, and I use this to estimate performance and decide how many cubes to do. Based on recent practice, my model predicted 1:08 per cube for initial memo, 0:50 for first review, 0:18 per quick review, and 0:56 per cube for execution, for a total time of 57:02 for 17 cubes.

Actual results based on analysis of the Weston video: 1:08, 0:49, 0:19, 0:56 and 57:17 respectively. And note that I spent 13 seconds propping up the stopwatch and putting on the harmonica holder, so actual solving time was 57:04. 

Not bad accuracy eh


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## h2f (Nov 27, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> Here's my multi PB from Saturday.
> 
> I keep a spreadsheet to log and analyse all my MBLD practice attempts, including splits, and I use this to estimate performance and decide how many cubes to do. Based on recent practice, my model predicted 1:08 per cube for initial memo, 0:50 for first review, 0:18 per quick review, and 0:56 per cube for execution, for a total time of 57:02 for 17 cubes.
> 
> ...



The analysis of that kind are really awsome in mbld. It's not comparable to other events. Great Mark!


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## pglewis (Nov 27, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> Also congrats to Andy and Chris for a really impressive set of big cube PBs, especially 6x6. Spectacular stuff. Special congrats to Chris for inching above me in the oldies 4x4 rankings by beating my single and average by 0.05 and 0.07 seconds respectively



Great job on the 16/17, great rivalry brewing between you and Chris on 4x4... and I know he still has a little way to go before hitting the over-40s ranks but Andy is quickly becoming a real threat on the bigger puzzles. 

Good battle for sub-2 in 3bld brewing between @newtonbase and @openseas, too.


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## newtonbase (Nov 27, 2017)

pglewis said:


> Good battle for sub-2 in 3bld brewing between @newtonbase and @openseas, too.


Unfortunately I'm not competing before February so @openseas probably has that one in the bag. Might be ya race to sub 1:30 by then. The first solve on Saturday was a 1:40ish DNF. Should have had it.


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## mark49152 (Nov 27, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> Unfortunately I'm not competing before February so @openseas probably has that one in the bag. Might be ya race to sub 1:30 by then. The first solve on Saturday was a 1:40ish DNF. Should have had it.


With my 3BLD performance on Saturday, I might be joining your race to sub-1 in a few months


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## newtonbase (Nov 27, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> With my 3BLD performance on Saturday, I might be joining your race to sub-1 in a few months


You'd be lost without your sub 1 goal.


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## Selkie (Nov 27, 2017)

Well what a weekend! First and foremost I would like to say what an honour and privilege it was to be given the opportunity of being able to co-host a competition with my buddy @Shaky Hands . Whilst knackering I had an absolute blast would do it all again in a heartbeat!

We received so much positive feedback, especially about the venue which was excellent and would have to credit @Shaky Hands with that awesome find.

It was a pleasure to be able to judge @newtonbase 's MBLD success and be there to see @mark49152 's winning 16/17 and shake his hand. Being able to judge MBLD with a pint in my hand was just icing on the cake. You guys did fantastically and I look forward to seeing you progress to more cubes in the near future. @Shaky Hands got some awesome big cube PBs and I completely agree, once Andy hits the 40's list he is going to be topping some charts, he got some great 5 and 6 results amongst a collection of comp PBs.

As for my own results, they were mixed but I managed to get away with a few milestones and achievements, just. Here is a rundown of the events that mattered:-

3x3: What can I say. Solves ranged between disappointing and abysmal! I really do need to make some significant changes to get sub 15 in comp. I have a plan for this though which I will reveal in the coming weeks. How I managed to qualify for R2 and the final is beyond me!

4x4: This has been a bit of a nemesis event for me. I usually get double parity first solve and it puts me off. I had no parity first solve and still got a below par time. The pb single was an OLL skip if I remember correctly and really didn't deserve to beat @mark49152 's PBs. Averaging mid 58s at home, 1:05 is poor.

5x5: I started with three solves over 2 minutes albeit only just over two minutes so I was happy to be able to get two sub 1:55 solves to secure my first official sub 2min average.

6x6: I was lucky enough to borrow @Shaky Hands magnetic 6x6 for my solves which gave me more confidence. First solve was about my global average but on the second I got a pop that went under the table. I had to get on hands and knees and find the piece and carefully fix the pop not being my cube and the result was a solve +1 minute over usual. I was hoping to aim for sub 4minute mean and sub no 1 on the over 40s chart and thought it was out of reach. I knew I needed a solve in the mid 3:30 range to have a chance. I tried to push TPS just a little and luckily didn't pop again, getting a 3:37 single making a 3:59.09 mean and previous over 40s mean record was 3:59.35. Still not sure how I got away with a 4:36.87 in there!

7x7: This time I was able to borrow a magnetised 7x7. First two solves a bit slow but still managed the over 40s mean but missed single by about 0.3 seconds.

Looking forward to the results being posted and @Logiqx rankings to be refreshed. Not sure how I have managed to get 2nd in 4 and 5 average behind Ron and 1st in 6 and 7 but I feel there is more in the tank, especially switching to M cubes for 6 and 7.


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## newtonbase (Nov 27, 2017)

Selkie said:


> Well what a weekend! First and foremost I would like to say what an honour and privilege it was to be given the opportunity of being able to co-host a competition with my buddy @Shaky Hands . Whilst knackering I had an absolute blast would do it all again in a heartbeat!
> 
> We received so much positive feedback, especially about the venue which was excellent and would have to credit @Shaky Hands with that awesome find.
> 
> ...


Some excellent results there @Selkie. Well done on them but I think the comp was the greater achievement. It wasn't just the venue. Everything went very smoothly. I didn't hear any complaints at all. There were a lot of new cubers there who I think will be looking forward to more comps thanks to you two.


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## Shaky Hands (Nov 28, 2017)

Yeah I had a great time as part of the team running the comp. It was great to see so many faces, both familiar and new. I think I feel I've helped the community have another successful competition; and that was the aim of it. Any big cube successes are just icing on the cake.

Thanks especially @Selkie. Good work too matey.


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## Selkie (Nov 28, 2017)

Results for Weston-super-Mare are up. Could you work your over 40s magic Mike, buddy ( @Logiqx)


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## Jason Green (Nov 28, 2017)

Selkie said:


> Results for Weston-super-Mare are up. Could you work your over 40s magic Mike, buddy ( @Logiqx)


Over 40s Magic Mike, sounds like a movie a few years from now.


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## newtonbase (Nov 28, 2017)

Woo hoo. Scraped top 10 for over 40s 3BLD.


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## mark49152 (Nov 28, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> Woo hoo. Scraped top 10 for over 40s 3BLD.


Nice job. Some good rankings for Chris as well.


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## newtonbase (Nov 28, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> Nice job. Some good rankings for Chris as well.


Chris and yourself are right up there with the very best.

One of my targets for this year was to get a top 20 UK ranking and I thought 3BLD was the way to do this. Unfortunately my plan coincided with a big upturn in interest in the event amongst the youngsters so the target is now looking out of reach. I think a switch in focus to MBLD with 4BLD as a backup is the way to go. Full MBLD practice attempts aren't really possible for me so I'm hoping that more frequent smaller attempts will do the job. I'm aiming for speedy 4 cube attempts in my lunch breaks plus some proper letter pair practice on Anki. I'll probably have to cash in a few brownie points to get to comps just on the day they are holding these events with fewer full weekends.

This is the current plan. It may change. Comments/advice welcome..


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## mark49152 (Nov 29, 2017)

@newtonbase:. Yes that's how I practise. Lots of 4 cube attempts to work on speed. Then occasional big attempts to stretch my memo. If you're shooting for 8 or 12 next comp you want to have done that many at home a few times to feel comfortable with that amount of memo. If you're struggling to fit it into the hour, go back to the 4 cube attempts to work on speed. I also rotate my 4 cube attempts through all my rooms so they all get equal use and stay familiar.


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## newtonbase (Nov 29, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> @newtonbase:. Yes that's how I practise. Lots of 4 cube attempts to work on speed. Then occasional big attempts to stretch my memo. If you're shooting for 8 or 12 next comp you want to have done that many at home a few times to feel comfortable with that amount of memo. If you're struggling to fit it into the hour, go back to the 4 cube attempts to work on speed. I also rotate my 4 cube attempts through all my rooms so they all get equal use and stay familiar.


Thanks. Yes, I am planning to rotate rooms. I still have the attempt from Saturday stuck in my regular rooms. Pretty sure I could get at least the same result with those same cubes in front of me now. I need to overwrite it. 
_A throbbing Che Guevara loves David Hasselhoff's gassy moustache. _


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## One Wheel (Nov 29, 2017)

I don't usually post PBs here, but this one got me pretty excited: 3:54.70 6x6 single, beat the previous best by 28.99 seconds, and could theoretically have been better if I'd been lucky enough to not get OLL parity.
That is the scramble I used, though to be honest I don't even remember for sure what center I solved first, so I don't suppose it matters much.

Edit: followed that up today with getting my rolling 3x3 Ao100 under 30 seconds for the first time: 29.94. Ao50 is at 28.82.


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## mark49152 (Nov 29, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> Thanks. Yes, I am planning to rotate rooms. I still have the attempt from Saturday stuck in my regular rooms. Pretty sure I could get at least the same result with those same cubes in front of me now. I need to overwrite it.
> _A throbbing Che Guevara loves David Hasselhoff's gassy moustache. _


What's your orientation? I wonder if I can recognise which cube that was


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## pglewis (Nov 29, 2017)

After a few days of regular practice sessions again I'm on the brink of another breakthrough. Still a lot of sup-30s due to ongoing adjustments but my fastest solves are on the move again. I hit a spell last night with a dozen solves where half were sub 25, the other half 28-32... _nothing_ in the 25-27 range at all. And with more sub 24-25 solves I'm reaching the point where I'll expect at least one sub 20 in a decent session of 50-100 solves. Got another high 19 last night along with a pile of 20s and 21s. Most of that is from F2L adjustments that are solidifying, my final full OLL push *still* has a way to go but continues to slowly and steadily get better as well.


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## newtonbase (Nov 29, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> What's your orientation? I wonder if I can recognise which cube that was


WCA. I'll be impressed if you get it. 

1/4 in 24ish today. I started a spreadsheet to track progress but as usual I forgot to note my memo time. Managed the full range of errors, memo, execution and recall.


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## openseas (Nov 29, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> Unfortunately I'm not competing before February so @openseas probably has that one in the bag. Might be ya race to sub 1:30 by then. The first solve on Saturday was a 1:40ish DNF. Should have had it.



Haha, what an honorable race!

My next comp is Dec - skillcon 2017. I'll be tied up with some transitions, not much of 3BLD practice. Could have gotten sub 1:50 last time if I did not flipped already perfectly solved cube :-(. 

I'm determined to organize more comps in DFW area next year so that Jason can compete without much of travel


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## openseas (Nov 29, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> Woo hoo. Scraped top 10 for over 40s 3BLD.



Congratulations!

@newtonbase BTW, what was the link? I thought I bookmarked it but can't find.


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## mark49152 (Nov 29, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> WCA. I'll be impressed if you get it.
> 
> 1/4 in 24ish today. I started a spreadsheet to track progress but as usual I forgot to note my memo time. Managed the full range of errors, memo, execution and recall.


I can't now recall any of the memo from Saturday. It's totally gone except for the two pairs I swapped in error (LP OS) since I thought about those so much 

Smashed my PB for 4/4 today - 7:16


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## Jason Green (Nov 30, 2017)

One Wheel said:


> I don't usually post PBs here, but this one got me pretty excited: 3:54.70 6x6 single, beat the previous best by 28.99 seconds, and could theoretically have been better if I'd been lucky enough to not get OLL parity.View attachment 8673
> That is the scramble I used, though to be honest I don't even remember for sure what center I solved first, so I don't suppose it matters much.
> 
> Edit: followed that up today with getting my rolling 3x3 Ao100 under 30 seconds for the first time: 29.94. Ao50 is at 28.82.


Nice job on 6x6. I still average like 3:30 on 5x5. 



openseas said:


> I'm determined to organize more comps in DFW area next year so that Jason can compete without much of travel


That would be great, thanks!!


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## newtonbase (Nov 30, 2017)

openseas said:


> Congratulations!
> 
> @newtonbase BTW, what was the link? I thought I bookmarked it but can't find.


It's here https://github.com/Logiqx/wca-ipy/blob/master/README.md


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## newtonbase (Nov 30, 2017)

Where are the competition scrambles stored please? I'd like to work out exactly where I went wrong in MBLD. 

Well done on the 4/4 PB @mark49152


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## mark49152 (Nov 30, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> Where are the competition scrambles stored please? I'd like to work out exactly where I went wrong in MBLD.
> 
> Well done on the 4/4 PB @mark49152


Thanks. They are here on the scramble tab: http://wcadb.net/results.php?id=WSMO2017


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## newtonbase (Nov 30, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> Thanks. They are here on the scramble tab: http://wcadb.net/results.php?id=WSMO2017


Thanks. 
Did you stick to MBLD for the 4/4 or was there a 3BLD in there?


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## mark49152 (Nov 30, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> Thanks.
> Did you stick to MBLD for the 4/4 or was there a 3BLD in there?


Stuck to MBLD. I do it exactly the same as a 4-block in a bigger attempt. I average about 8:30-9 so that one was unusually fast.


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## newtonbase (Nov 30, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> Stuck to MBLD. I do it exactly the same as a 4-block in a bigger attempt. I average about 8:30-9 so that one was unusually fast.


I'll take half that speed at the moment.


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## mark49152 (Nov 30, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> I'll take half that speed at the moment.


Are you working on speed, or capacity & accuracy?


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## Selkie (Nov 30, 2017)

Well apparently since Windows Movie Maker has gone out of Microsoft support they have removed the download. Not sure if anyone has a download of it for Windows 10 lying around? I have had to try a few other options and settled on Lightworks which seems to do the job without too much of a steep learning curve.

So with some delay by first Weston-super-Mare Open video. 5x5 Round 1:-

Average: 1:58.50
2:01.07, (2:01.89), 2:00.17, (1:53.91), 1:54.26

Off the pace with the first three solves but the last two were judged by @Shaky Hands , enough said 






PS: Need to get out of the habit of glancing at the timer. I did it on far too many solves this comp.


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## newtonbase (Nov 30, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> Are you working on speed, or capacity & accuracy?


Current plan is to work on speed just so I can then work on more cubes in my limited practice time. Some degree of accuracy would be nice so I'll be looking at where I went wrong each time.


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## mark49152 (Nov 30, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> Current plan is to work on speed just so I can then work on more cubes in my limited practice time. Some degree of accuracy would be nice so I'll be looking at where I went wrong each time.


Makes sense I guess. Do you have a system? How many times do you review?


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## newtonbase (Nov 30, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> Makes sense I guess. Do you have a system? How many times do you review?


I've only done it once but I'm hoping to get away with a single good review. If I'm making too many errors then I may make adjustments.


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## mark49152 (Nov 30, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> I've only done it once but I'm hoping to get away with a single good review. If I'm making too many errors then I may make adjustments.


Same here for small attempts. For bigger attempts I then add in multiple quick reviews to glue it all together.


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## newtonbase (Nov 30, 2017)

Just tried to check my unsolved cubes against the scrambles from the weekend and they are completely different. I'll use them for my lunchtime practice instead.


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## Jason Green (Nov 30, 2017)

Selkie said:


> Well apparently since Windows Movie Maker has gone out of Microsoft support they have removed the download. Not sure if anyone has a download of it for Windows 10 lying around? I have had to try a few other options and settled on Lightworks which seems to do the job without too much of a steep learning curve.
> 
> So with some delay by first Weston-super-Mare Open video. 5x5 Round 1:-
> 
> ...


I ran into that a while back. I ended up buying Wondershare Filmora it was fairly cheap. I actually was so excited to have green screen capability (something I always wanted as a kid doing videos) that I ordered a green screen kit. Haha. Here's a couple private videos playing with the kids when we got it.


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## Selkie (Nov 30, 2017)

@Jason Green - That is awesome, bet the boys had so much fun filming and editing.


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## mark49152 (Nov 30, 2017)

Not PB, but best on camera.


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## Selkie (Nov 30, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> Not PB, but best on camera.



Wow buddy, what awesome solves, so inspiring.


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## mark49152 (Dec 1, 2017)

Selkie said:


> Wow buddy, what awesome solves, so inspiring.


Thanks mate. I might post my WSM solves for comparison. You can see my hands shaking and the cube locking all over the show! I think I will finally make the switch to magnets. They might make the cube a bit more forgiving of the shaky hands


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## h2f (Dec 1, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> Not PB, but best on camera.



Nice execution Mark.


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## Fyzzna (Dec 1, 2017)

So after not having touched a cube in 2 weeks I decided to do some solves today. Never thought I'd be breaking PBs with such ease...

single: 10.62 -> 10.38
ao5: 13.62 -> 12.37
ao12: 14.88 -> 12.99


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## muchacho (Dec 1, 2017)

Wow Teach me senpai!


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## Selkie (Dec 1, 2017)

@mark49152 - I saw your hands shaking on the last solve of your 16/17 on Saturday. Mine tend to shake in comp too mate. Would be great to see your WSMO solves.

@Fyzzna - Wow, just wow. That is some improvement. Do you mind me asking how old you are? Those are great times

-------

Well after some disappointing 4x4 solves at comp last weekend I did purchase a Moyu Aosu GTS M which was an instant main even over my Cubicle Labs WuQue M. Got lucky with parities this lunchtime to secure a PB ao5 and nearly a pure sub 55 average:-

Average of 5: 53.40
1. (55.23) B' D U B R' r2 U' F' B U' D2 F' f L2 r' F' f r2 L' u F' B' U' B' F2 U' L R2 B2 u' R u2 r2 u' B' F' f2 R2 f' D2 
2. 53.06 U L2 B' U2 u2 r' L U2 u L F u F D' B U' B2 U L2 D' R U' B2 u2 L2 U B' F r' B u' r2 F2 r2 u2 L2 B' R2 D L' 
3. 53.82 F D U2 u L r2 B2 u U B D2 F u' B r2 R2 F2 R' L F u U2 D' f' F D U' F u L' R' F' R2 B2 f' R2 r D' r2 D2 
4. 53.31 U' L' B2 r' D' B2 U' F2 L r D F2 f2 R2 f' D L' f' R r D' L B2 L2 U' f' D2 r2 D2 L f r2 R' D r' B2 D2 F2 D r 
5. (52.97) r F' L2 u' B2 r2 F2 B f R B2 f2 D' B' u' B u2 B2 R' r U u' L' f' L' f2 F2 R' r' L F' L2 F2 B' f' R D2 f2 B F


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## Fyzzna (Dec 1, 2017)

muchacho said:


> Wow Teach me senpai!


Hah, I suppose a good strong coffee in the morning and the feeling of almost having finished your dissertation does wonderful things to you



Selkie said:


> @Fyzzna - Wow, just wow. That is some improvement. Do you mind me asking how old you are? Those are great times


Thanks, I was quite shocked at those times myself, pretty sure those records will not be broken for quite a while. I'm 28 (which is probably below the average age here but I still feel like an oldie in this hobby ).


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## Selkie (Dec 1, 2017)

Fyzzna said:


> I'm 28 (which is probably below the average age here but I still feel like an oldie in this hobby ).



Absolutely. The average age of a cuber seems to get younger and younger or maybe that just me getting older!


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## mafergut (Dec 1, 2017)

Hi guys!!! Lot's of stuff since I last checked in here!

Congrats to @mark49152 for that great 16/17 MBLD PB and everyone also on their own comp PBs. Sorry to hear that @Selkie was not lucky in 3x3 but you got plenty other comp PBs to compensate. Impressive 6x6 PB by @One Wheel !! You beat my own PB by almost a minute now, mate! I'm still faster at 3x3 though  not sure for how long.

@Jason Green That green screen looks like a lot of fun but you also have a couple nice spotlights. How much did all that equipment set you back? By the way, I love to see your kids on video again. They always put a smile on my face.

Regarding video editing I'm still using Windows Movie Maker but I'll need to change soon, now that I'm taking my YouCuber aspect more seriously. I'm thinking about a new mic and my camera does not accept mic input so I'll have to record audio separately and synch it while editing, something WMM does not allow easily. Also it's very limited in effects and capabilities, as well as a little buggy. So I'll take into consideration Lightworks as an alternative, unless somebody has a better one. Not sure how good Wondershare Filmora is but I wouldn't say 59,99 € is cheap. I was thinking about Vegas Movie Studio 14 Platinum which is 49,99 € and it already seemed a little too much for a cheapskate like me 

One last thing, I'm waiting for my Aosu GTS M to arrive. Glad to know it is even better than a Cubicle WuQue M. I started to practice 4x4 today a bit waiting for it to arrive, so I can properly compare it with my Juki WuQue M and I got a single PB of 53.08, more than two seconds better than the old one, and that taking into account the cube almost slipped during OLL and I lost like 1 second or more.

And no, today there is no video  (maybe this weekend).


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## One Wheel (Dec 1, 2017)

mafergut said:


> Impressive 6x6 PB by @One Wheel !! You beat my own PB by almost a minute now, mate! I'm still faster at 3x3 though  not sure for how long.


Thanks. I wouldn't worry too much about keeping ahead of me on 3x3. I'm sitting at 493 3x3 solves in my main cstimer session and 715 6x6 solves. Those ratios don't include untimed solves, obviously, and I do more idle untimed 3x3 than 6x6, but the only way I see myself making much progress on 3x3 is if I buckle down and decide to learn full OLL.


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## pglewis (Dec 1, 2017)

My story right now from a typical A012: 

 

Clearly shows I still have unfinished business. On one hand I feel like I should quit timing for a while because I'm too inconsistent for anything beyond a good Ao5 right now. On the other hand I'm primed for landing something in the 15s at any moment with a perfect storm. 

Slower: 
* Some of my F2L adjustments aren't automatic yet and looking ahead is causing me to mis-solve some pairs... ending in the fun of stopping, looking confused, and solving 5 or 6 pairs. 

* Final new OLLs, especially recognition on some of them

* Lookahead still frustratingly only allows me to fully harness it for a few solves before reverting to "hunting" for pairs in 30s solves again. 

Faster: 
* A lot more attention to edge control, at the very least with the last pair. I've worked on alternate insertions for misoriented U face edges and I think it really makes a difference considering I only know one dot OLL. 

* General F2L improvements for cases that have historically slowed me

* Expanded OLL: still some to learn even ignoring the dot OLLs but I'm 1-looking OLL more than half the time and it's a clear difference as the newer ones solidify.


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## Selkie (Dec 1, 2017)

@pglewis - self critique and analysis like that will get you there. Plateaus can be very frustrating but work on the weaknesses and I'm sure you'll get your 15 soon


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## newtonbase (Dec 1, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> You can see my hands shaking and the cube locking all over the show! I think I will finally make the switch to magnets. They might make the cube a bit more forgiving of the shaky hands


I got a bit shaky in my MBLD when I thought I might get 4 but managed to switch my focus on to the job in hand. 
Have you tried many magnetic cubes? Any idea what your preference might be?


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## pglewis (Dec 1, 2017)

Selkie said:


> @pglewis - self critique and analysis like that will get you there. Plateaus can be very frustrating but work on the weaknesses and I'm sure you'll get your 15 soon



Thanks, I shouldn't be particularly surprised really. Given my Ao50 I was roughly in the 28s before this latest round of tinkering. I'm about half done with that and lo and behold: half my solves are faster and half still regressed. The frustrating part is starting with Ao5s in the 23s (pretty fast for me) and then having the bell-curve catch up in the next 5. It's hard to cheat averages, it's like they _know_!


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## JanW (Dec 1, 2017)

pglewis said:


> The frustrating part is starting with Ao5s in the 23s (pretty fast for me) and then having the bell-curve catch up in the next 5. It's hard to cheat averages, it's like they _know_!


That is frustrating indeed. I've tried to blame concentration, or getting nervous for closing in on some new pb, but none of that has helped solve the issue...

Oh, and hi there oldies! Long time no see!  Long time no much cubing for me either, unfortunately. I just started doing some timed solves again to see where I'm at. 200 solves into my cubing relapse the large averages are steadily above 21s, probably largely because I'm having problems remembering some OLLs. If I can get them all back up to speed it should be better. I've also seen several full-step 15s and an Ao5 within .5 seconds of old pb, so it's not all lost yet, I hope.

I had to come here because of that Ao5, to check what my old pb was. I lost all my old data from cstimer when I had to do a fresh install of Windows. Do you guys backup your solves into excel, or something?


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## pglewis (Dec 1, 2017)

JanW said:


> Do you guys backup your solves into excel, or something?



I'm no help at all, I don't track long sessions and just keep a simple Google sheet to track my PBs. Good to see ya back around though!


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## mark49152 (Dec 2, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> Have you tried many magnetic cubes? Any idea what your preference might be?


I have a GTS2M, and a YueXiao Pro home magnetised that I bought from Chris Morris at Weston. I like both but the YueXiao feels more solid so I think that will become my BLD main. I've ordered the Pro M new, as the stickers on Chris’s are only borderline legal for BLD and I need a backup cube anyway.


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## mafergut (Dec 2, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> I have a GTS2M, and a YueXiao Pro home magnetised that I bought from Chris Morris at Weston. I like both but the YueXiao feels more solid so I think that will become my BLD main. I've ordered the Pro M new, as the stickers on Chris’s are only borderline legal for BLD and I need a backup cube anyway.


I was planning on buying a Yuexiao Pro M to compare with the GTS2M and, as I have said a couple times here, one of my main issues with most modern cubes is the pointy corners causing catches, so a top notch cube with light magnets and rounded corners could be main material for me.

If you happen to receive yours before I decide to buy one myself do not hesitate in sharing your first impressions here.

I was preparing some stuff to make a video on my channel comparing my Juki WuQue M with the new Aosu GTS M which I will have, I hope, in a few days. So I was recording some solves and got my 1st sub-1min 4x4 solve on camera! 
When watching it I only see pauses and pauses  I could get sub-45 easy without the pauses. Makes me wanna cry.


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## Bart Van Eynde (Dec 3, 2017)

Does anyone has a good tip on how to practise OLL cases? I'm just starting to learn some extra algs (using 2-look OLL mainly) for the dot-cases. But in real solves they rarely happen ... seems like 1 in 57 solves 
And yes i have the OLL trainer from badmephisto


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## pglewis (Dec 3, 2017)

Bart Van Eynde said:


> Does anyone has a good tip on how to practise OLL cases? I'm just starting to learn some extra algs (using 2-look OLL mainly) for the dot-cases. But in real solves they rarely happen ... seems like 1 in 57 solves
> And yes i have the OLL trainer from badmephisto



I can spam a new alg a bunch to get it into muscle memory but I haven't found any shortcuts for recognition short of spamming solves... and it's the recognition pauses that really kill me with new algs, not execution. 

Besides the dot OLL cases I'm finally down to 3 I-cases and the awkwards; recognition on the small lightning bolts and Ls is still dodgy which is compounded by the fact that my 2-look OLL for L edges was automatic from 2 angles before I started tackling those. 

I'm also replacing a couple G-PLLs right now since I'm already tinkering with my solves, the goal being to have them all be "headlights left" and to swap out a couple of my least favorite algs for RUD: 

Gb: R' U' R U D' R2 U R' U R U' R U' R2 D
Gc: R2' U' R U' R U R' U R2 D' U R U' R' D

Technically, if I keep the old ones that are in muscle memory in practice I don't have to "ditch" them so much as have two angles at my disposal, but I definitely prefer the flow of the RUD versions better.


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## Mike Hughey (Dec 3, 2017)

I found that good way to help learn the OLLs, although a little bit of work, was to learn to do the inverses, at least temporarily. Then you can do the inverse, "recognize" it, then solve it. Sure you already know it's coming, but somehow seeing it come up and responding to it helps.

It's also good when you find that applying a different OLL some number of times to a solved cube yields the case you're trying to learn.


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## pglewis (Dec 3, 2017)

Actually, a thought that hadn't occurred to me is drilling last slot, last layer scrambles. You'd get a to see a lot more OLLs per session that way.


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## mark49152 (Dec 3, 2017)

@Shaky Hands , did you really go to Dublin and only get one result, a DNF in 7x7?


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## JanW (Dec 3, 2017)

pglewis said:


> Actually, a thought that hadn't occurred to me is drilling last slot, last layer scrambles. You'd get a to see a lot more OLLs per session that way.


When I was learning OLL, I would blindly do a few random OLL algs with some AUF in between, then look at the cube to solve whatever I was presented with. This works pretty well for example while watching TV. Only need to look at the cube once in a while, most of the time eyes can focus elsewhere.

In the past few months my cubing has been limited to only fiddling with the cube in front of the TV. I did realize that during all this time, I've been solving mostly non-white crosses. So now seems like a better time than ever to go all color neutral, instead of trying to get back to my old times with white cross. Especially with all my old records wiped from csTimer, it would still seem like I'm constantly breaking my records, even if it would take a while before I threaten my actual pbs.

I did a couple of hundred full CN solves, choosing what cross to solve during the 15s inspection. Ao100 around 22.8, best Ao50 at 21.5. This is definitely a lot faster than I did CN solves in the summer! I think I'll continue like this.  Most of the really bad solves are still due to forgotten or messed up OLLs. 

The best Ao12 reveals that it's quite a bumpy ride: 
avg of 12: 20.40
21.96, (13.91), 24.96, 15.92, 21.59, 18.07, (32.27), 23.07, 21.21, 18.70, 15.34, 23.19

13.91 was yellow cross (PLL skip), 15.34 red cross (full-step) and 15.92 white. Possibly my fastest yellow and red cross solves ever.


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## pglewis (Dec 4, 2017)

pglewis said:


> Actually, a thought that hadn't occurred to me is drilling last slot, last layer scrambles. You'd get a to see a lot more OLLs per session that way.



Yeah, I'm gonna go with this as my final answer. I cranked out over 100 LSLL solves in the time it would take me to do 50 full solves. If you're really out to just pound on OLL you could skip PLL to get even more practice in.


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## Bart Van Eynde (Dec 4, 2017)

pglewis said:


> Actually, a thought that hadn't occurred to me is drilling last slot, last layer scrambles. You'd get a to see a lot more OLLs per session that way.


This is actually a very nice idea. Thanks allot for the advise.


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## Bart Van Eynde (Dec 4, 2017)

Mike Hughey said:


> I found that good way to help learn the OLLs, although a little bit of work, was to learn to do the inverses, at least temporarily. Then you can do the inverse, "recognize" it, then solve it. Sure you already know it's coming, but somehow seeing it come up and responding to it helps.
> 
> It's also good when you find that applying a different OLL some number of times to a solved cube yields the case you're trying to learn.


I did found this site which does that i guess
http://www.practicube.com/#practice


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## earth2dan (Dec 4, 2017)

mafergut said:


> I was preparing some stuff to make a video on my channel comparing my Juki WuQue M with the new Aosu GTS M which I will have, I hope, in a few days. So I was recording some solves and got my 1st sub-1min 4x4 solve on camera!
> When watching it I only see pauses and pauses  I could get sub-45 easy without the pauses. Makes me wanna cry.


Awesome! I have yet to break the 1 minute mark on 4x4. My closest was a 1:05, with no parity. Now after taking a long break from it I'm having a hard time just getting back under 1:20 times. 2017 has been a bust for me on the cubing front. If anything, I'm slower than I was at the end of 2016 in all but 3x3 

It's been a long while since I posted here, which seems to be a trend for me :/ , but I love how this thread just keeps going strong. You guys are awesome 

I just received my first magnetic puzzles and since the topic came up recently I thought I'd chime in. I bought an Aosu GTS M and a Gans 356 Air SM. Long story short; I really like them both. I'm still in love with my Cyclone Boys mini 4x4, though I think that's mostly because of it's size. If I could get a 57mm WuQue or Aosu GTS, that would be heavenly.

The Gans Air SM has taken some getting used to. It's very light, airy, and really really fast. I've had to really adjust my turning style to be more gentle. This is definitely a "soft touch" 3x3. You could put stronger springs in it and apply some heavier lube to slow it down a bit and make it more controllable, but I think that would negate the effectiveness of the magnets. The magnets are not very strong, and I think a slower puzzle requiring more effort would kill the effect. As it is, if you can turn lightly, and are a fan of the Gans 356 feel, this 3x3 is just awesome.

I don't have any other magnetic puzzles to compare to, but having used the non-magnetic versions of both of these puzzles I definitely prefer the magnets. That extra bit of stability is very welcome, especially with the notoriously wobbly Gans 356.

Not sure when I'll be back, but keep on keep'n on folks. *C*ubing is *F*or *O*ld *P*eople too


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## pglewis (Dec 5, 2017)

mafergut said:


> When watching it I only see pauses and pauses...



A little while ago I was watching an "older" vid of Feliks on like a 10.x second solve and was surprised how much I now notice the pauses. I can't imagine watching one of my own atm 



JanW said:


> The best Ao12 reveals that it's quite a bumpy ride...



It also shows some great potential in the making, I'm a little jealous. I've kinda given up on full CN, though I will still go opposite neutral once in a blue moon if white looks annoying. 



Bart Van Eynde said:


> I did found this site which does that i guess
> http://www.practicube.com/#practice



That looks really interesting at a quick glance, I need to play with it when I have a moment. 



earth2dan said:


> I don't have any other magnetic puzzles to compare to, but having used the non-magnetic versions of both of these puzzles I definitely prefer the magnets. That extra bit of stability is very welcome...



Same conclusions here, from the moment I got a GTS2M it's been hard to go back to a non magnetic cube, doubly so for blind. There were a few weeks when my Yuxin Little Magic was crisp and brand new that it was my go-to, but I've been back to the GTS2M for a little while.


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## Shaky Hands (Dec 5, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> @Shaky Hands , did you really go to Dublin and only get one result, a DNF in 7x7?



Ha ha. Erm, no. I registered a while back so was still listed in cubecomps although ultimately I decided not to go. Nothing got transferred from there to my WCA profile so I assume it got spotted and fixed.

Sounds like Ciarán had some excellent results over there. I'd like to get to an Irish comp at some point. Another time perhaps.


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## efattah (Dec 6, 2017)

mafergut said:


> I was planning on buying a Yuexiao Pro M to compare with the GTS2M and, as I have said a couple times here, one of my main issues with most modern cubes is the pointy corners causing catches, so a top notch cube with light magnets and rounded corners could be main material for me.
> 
> If you happen to receive yours before I decide to buy one myself do not hesitate in sharing your first impressions here.



I have them all, Yuexiao Pro M, Gan Air SM, UM, GTS2M etc.
The 'stock' GTS2M has problems with the magnets coming loose. The cubicle manually magnetized GTS2M does not have this problem and has better and slightly stronger magnets. Nothing comes close to the cubicle GTS2M. Yuexiao Pro M is not very good at all in my opinion. It feels very much like Gan Air UM. UM had too strong magnets, SM catches/locks up way too much.

Yuexiao Pro M is still a good cube in relative terms, much better than earlier generations. If you run it at very loose tensions and tweak the setup it might approach its competitors.


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## mark49152 (Dec 6, 2017)

3x3 PB single 11.70. My first 3x3 PB single in over two years! The scramble doesn't look especially easy so I'm not sure if I mis-scrambled. It was a PLL skip but whatever .


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## h2f (Dec 6, 2017)

Najs Mark, @mark49152. I've started practicing square-1 with Lin Method. Got sub40 ao100, but still missed sub30 ao5 by a little (30.44).


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## xyzzy (Dec 7, 2017)

pglewis said:


> It's hard to cheat averages, it's like they _know_!


A classic example of regression to the mean! (Although with cubing I usually find that it's an issue with maintaining concentration rather than luckiness/unluckiness; I know I've had 12-second solves with unlucky cases and 20-second solves with lucky cases.)


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## JohnnyReggae (Dec 7, 2017)

I built my own Stackmat timer display ... @Jayanth .... posted a tutorial for a DIY timer display on the forums a while back. I figured, why not give it a go.

https://jayanth-rajakumar.github.io/ledmat/

I bought all the components needed on eBay from China. The components took around 3 months to arrive  Unfortunately my soldering skills are very rusty and I managed to fry both the LED units trying to solder and desolder and resolder and desolder connections. The 4 panel still works but any outgoing connections from it don't, and the single panel is dead  Anyway I bought replacements locally as I didn't want to wait another 3 months to finish the project.

Jayanth was awesome as he helped with the software as some of the software required is no longer available. He sent me the software versions that he originally used. I again solicited his help with the wiring of the single panel as it was different to what he used, and also with the battery/charge unit wiring. Again they were different to what he used.

I bought a case from a local Electronics retailer which is not the best but will do for this project. Dremelling the case to make the cutouts was more tedious than I had expected. The case didn't so much get cut as get melted through. My handy work in the end wasn't great but again will suffice for this project. Putting it all together and glueing everything in was quite quick. Finally I spray painted the beige case with matt black, the same paint I've been using for my modded cubes.

If you have a Stackmat timer I would highly recommend you attempt this little project. It's been awesome, despite the shaking head my wife has been giving me


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## newtonbase (Dec 7, 2017)

Nice looking timer @JohnnyReggae. Well done.

At my 4th attempt doing quicker 4 cube MBLD and I finally got more than 1 cube solved. Also fastest by far. 3/4 in 17:55. 2 different errors made but both on cube 3. Much happier with this.


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## openseas (Dec 7, 2017)

JohnnyReggae said:


> I built my own Stackmat timer display ... @Jayanth .... posted a tutorial for a DIY timer display on the forums a while back. I figured, why not give it a go.
> 
> https://jayanth-rajakumar.github.io/ledmat/
> 
> ...


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## JanW (Dec 7, 2017)

pglewis said:


> It also shows some great potential in the making, I'm a little jealous. I've kinda given up on full CN, though I will still go opposite neutral once in a blue moon if white looks annoying.


Thanks! Why given up? I was absolutely hopeless at anything but a white cross 6 months ago. Like really, would have taken me on average at least twice as long to solve on blue or green. That was before I had solved at all with the other crosses. I can't see how you could be in any worse position than I was back then. Once I started solving other crosses, it took quite a while to get used to it, but it seems doable.


pglewis said:


> Same conclusions here, from the moment I got a GTS2M it's been hard to go back to a non magnetic cube, doubly so for blind.


I ordered my first magnetic cube last week, a GTS2M. I'm carefully hoping I would get it in time for Christmas, but not counting on it. I've never tried a magnetized cube yet, let's see if it also instantly obsoletes all my other dear cubes.


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## pglewis (Dec 7, 2017)

xyzzy said:


> A classic example of regression to the mean! (Although with cubing I usually find that it's an issue with maintaining concentration rather than luckiness/unluckiness



I love that I sometimes still think I can "cherry pick" for a good average even though I should know better 



JanW said:


> Thanks! Why given up? I was absolutely hopeless at anything but a white cross 6 months ago. Like really, would have taken me on average at least twice as long to solve on blue or green. That was before I had solved at all with the other crosses. I can't see how you could be in any worse position than I was back then. Once I started solving other crosses, it took quite a while to get used to it, but it seems doable.



I'm sure I could eventually get used to it with lots of practice but it's more a "bang for the buck" thing. I'm already okay with opposite neutral-- probably 3-5 seconds slower on yellow but that could easily improve with focused attention-- and that improves my chances of a better cross quite a bit. The bottleneck for me is inspection time, if I could evaluate up to 6 crosses I'd probably rather put that effort into looking deeper into inspection for x-cross and practice tracking first pair.


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## muchacho (Dec 8, 2017)

Reached 60000 timed solves, if I've improved it must be like 0.1 or 0.2 seconds at most.
 

OH on the other hand bring better news, new PB single: 17.984 (was 18.920 from a few weeks ago)

9089 08-dic-2017 14:52:08 00:17.984 R2 B2 L2 D2 R2 L2 U R2 F2 U' F2 R' U R U2 F' L' F' U2 F D
z2
Lw' B L' U L' z2
Lw M U' M' Lw' U' Lw U M Lw U Lw'
U2 L' U2 y R U2 R' U2 R' U2 y R
M U M' U M' U2 M2 U' M' U2 M' U2
39 STM
2.17 TPS


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## mark49152 (Dec 10, 2017)

Grzegorz, I see you registered at GLS Final but no results?


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## pglewis (Dec 10, 2017)

JanW said:


> I ordered my first magnetic cube last week, a GTS2M. I'm carefully hoping I would get it in time for Christmas, but not counting on it. I've never tried a magnetized cube yet, let's see if it also instantly obsoletes all my other dear cubes.



I have a pair I try to keep setup close to the same, this is the longest I've stuck to one "main". It's still the only magnetic 3x3 I've used but I haven't had much urge to go experimenting. I think I'd like slightly weaker magnets for my taste but when they're clean and DNM-37'd they suit me well. 

QC on magnet adhesive may be a bit dodgy from the reports but it's not completely chronic. I stackmat and drop 'em on my mat as a matter of course and both have taken tumbles I had to watch in slow motion horror, but not a loose magnet yet and I probably deserve to have a rattle by now. 

TANSTAAFL: Slices are out of balance with other face turns, with more magnets resisting and less magnet mass. It's not awful and the added stability still far outweighs this downside for me. But it is the single thing I DO like when I pick up a non-magnetic one now.


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## JanW (Dec 10, 2017)

I very much look forward to receiving my first magnetized cube. Trying not to push my expectations too high though, which I assume could easily happen given how much they have been hyped around here the past year.

Today I again felt like I need something new to fiddle with and ordered a stickerless QiYi WuJi. Don't know much about larger cubes, but it seemed like a decent choice. Hope I don't regret it.  I also considered getting a Megaminx, but about those I really don't know anything. If I want one, what would be a good choice for first Megaminx?


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## Shaky Hands (Dec 10, 2017)

JanW said:


> I also considered getting a Megaminx, but about those I really don't know anything. If I want one, what would be a good choice for first Megaminx?



X-Man Galaxy. Well worth a try. A lot of good solvers use this and it's not significantly more expensive than less popular models.


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## JanW (Dec 10, 2017)

Shaky Hands said:


> X-Man Galaxy. Well worth a try. A lot of good solvers use this and it's not significantly more expensive than less popular models.


I see a QiYi Galaxy. Is it the same puzzle?


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## Shaky Hands (Dec 10, 2017)

@JanW - yes.


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## pglewis (Dec 10, 2017)

3x3: I'm down to 5 OLLs I haven't selected algs for: 3 dots and 2 I's. A good half-dozen are still new, slow, and have a recall delay and there are another 4 or 5 where the execution is reasonably solid but recog and AUF still needs work. I switched two G-perms to RUD versions and those are starting to come around now. I definitely prefer them execution-wise, just need to finish breaking my old AUF and recall habits. I did the same thing with one of my R-perms a few months back and it's one of my fastest PLLs now. I shaved a half second off my best Ao12 in a session last week but overall averages are still wildly all over the map, of course. My best singles, however... got another mid 19 last night, 17.72 the night before. Sub 20 singles aren't quite a daily occurrence just yet but may be close. A year ago it was a similar story, just move the barrier to 30 seconds, so I'm hoping a year from now sup-20s are a disappointment. 

3bld: Still haven't done a full blind attempt since Sept . I am doing sighted blind drills every few days so I don't let my execution and speffz recognition get rusty but I should get on a the ball with full attempts, 2018 is fast approaching and I plan to hit the first reasonably close comp that pops up holding 3bld. Primary goal of a PB is about as easy as it gets with my 9:45 out there lol. More aggressively I would kinda like to be flirting with under 5 mins consistently by then. 

mbld: So far I've managed a 2/2 once and a 2/3 once, back when I was in regular practice. Very far from being in comp shape for an official attempt of any sort at the moment. Personal goal is an official 6 cube attempt by the end of next year, I have work to do.


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## h2f (Dec 10, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> Grzegorz, I see you registered at GLS Final but no results?



I had to stay at home. Although I've registered for big bldes I could be on Satruday and to these events. And yesterday it showed I have to stay home.


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## pglewis (Dec 10, 2017)

My penchant for RUD algs reminded me of a finger-trick I've adopted that I don't think I've seen anywhere before. The one exception to flowing RUD algs for me is whenever there is a D2, I've never come up with a serviceable double-flick for D2. I've avoided algs with D2s where possible but still have a couple in my Ab alg, which I now execute with my left ring finger reaching across the back face to RBD and doing the U2 in one single motion, starting with the RBD corner in the crease of my ring finger's first knuckle and ending with my ring finger flat, fingernail side against the bottom of the L face and pointing at me. 

It's a bit of a reach, which induces a delay, but easily beats all my attempts at double-flicks thus far. Obviously mirrors to the right ring finger reaching to LBD, I just use left for Ab because of how the grip works out. Also no reason it couldn't be done with index finger for U2 but I've never really employed it there. Counting the reach delay it probably works out the same as my double-flick U2 though the actual movement, once started that way, is a little quicker for me.


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## Selkie (Dec 11, 2017)

Well my 3x3 PB average of 5 has held for over a year but a lot of concentrated practice on 3x3 since Weston-super-Mare Open. I think I might be able to call myself sub 15 which has been a life goal in cubing as most sessions in last couple of days are <15s and I guess globally I am about 14.8.

As for what I have been working on:-

Cross to F2L transition - BLD cross practice, predicting corners and easier pairs
Slower F2L - My F2L is a lot slower than it was 2 weeks ago but with fewer pauses and fewer U U U2 U! 
Solving to back slots first where possible
Helped with an easy X-Cross and a PLL skip but here is the PB average:-

Average of 5: 12.18
1. 11.31 F' L2 D2 U2 F D2 B' D2 F' D2 L' R F' D2 R U' L U B D2 
2. (14.50) L' D2 F2 D2 L U2 L B2 L U2 L2 U' L B U L F2 D' L B F2 
3. 13.09 U2 F2 U2 B2 R2 B2 D L2 B2 D' R' D' B' U B2 L D B R2 F R' 
4. (10.55) R D2 R' B2 R B2 R' U2 B2 L R F L D L U' L U2 R2 D' F2 
5. 12.14 U2 L2 B D2 B' R2 B' D2 U2 B R2 U L U2 F' U R B' L U


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## One Wheel (Dec 11, 2017)

pglewis said:


> My penchant for RUD algs reminded me of a finger-trick I've adopted that I don't think I've seen anywhere before. The one exception to flowing RUD algs for me is whenever there is a D2, I've never come up with a serviceable double-flick for D2. I've avoided algs with D2s where possible but still have a couple in my Ab alg, which I now execute with my left ring finger reaching across the back face to RBD and doing the U2 in one single motion, starting with the RBD corner in the crease of my ring finger's first knuckle and ending with my ring finger flat, fingernail side against the bottom of the L face and pointing at me.
> 
> It's a bit of a reach, which induces a delay, but easily beats all my attempts at double-flicks thus far. Obviously mirrors to the right ring finger reaching to LBD, I just use left for Ab because of how the grip works out. Also no reason it couldn't be done with index finger for U2 but I've never really employed it there. Counting the reach delay it probably works out the same as my double-flick U2 though the actual movement, once started that way, is a little quicker for me.



I'll need to work on that. I've found myself doing the index finger U2 version of that since experimenting with ZZ, but my LL algs are in muscle memory with a double flick so I really only do it during F2L and AUF.


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## Lid (Dec 11, 2017)

Got a random 4x4 a5 PB today 55.680, (50.553), 1:01.825, (1:09.820), 51.898 -> *56.468* (=-0.091)

3x3 is also getting better but no new PBs there. (And I'm still too lazy to film anything ;p)


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## pglewis (Dec 11, 2017)

Selkie said:


> Well my 3x3 PB average of 5 has held for over a year but a lot of concentrated practice on 3x3 since Weston-super-Mare Open. I think I might be able to call myself sub 15 which has been a life goal in cubing as most sessions in last couple of days are <15s and I guess globally I am about 14.8.



You are among my top, great 3x3 hopes for the old men! Ron is still super active and Gilles made an appearance at World's this year. Never know when lightning might strike for @Lid, @Logiqx, @Jason Green, or @Brest just to name a few, too. Sub-10 or bust! 



One Wheel said:


> I'll need to work on that. I've found myself doing the index finger U2 version of that since experimenting with ZZ, but my LL algs are in muscle memory with a double flick so I really only do it during F2L and AUF.



Yeah, I have double-flick in muscle memory for U2 and I'm not sure the other way would be any faster. For the D2s, though, it was immediately at least as fast as my awkward double-flick attempts and quickly became natural enough to be faster for me.


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## phreaker (Dec 11, 2017)

One Wheel said:


> I'll need to work on that. I've found myself doing the index finger U2 version of that since experimenting with ZZ, but my LL algs are in muscle memory with a double flick so I really only do it during F2L and AUF.



How are you liking ZZ?


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## One Wheel (Dec 11, 2017)

phreaker said:


> How are you liking ZZ?


I like the theory very much, the practice is harder. I've not even gotten close to mastering EOLine, and certainly no extra algs learned toward ZBLL or anything like that. Since most of what I do is big cubes I'm not sure it's entirely worth making the switch, but once I have a foot cube with my crazy color scheme again the improved ergonomics of ZZ F2L might be worth it, and I do like the idea of learning ZZ-CT just for feet. Once I know it for my feet I may just do it with my hands too.


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## phreaker (Dec 11, 2017)

One Wheel said:


> I like the theory very much, the practice is harder. I've not even gotten close to mastering EOLine, and certainly no extra algs learned toward ZBLL or anything like that. Since most of what I do is big cubes I'm not sure it's entirely worth making the switch, but once I have a foot cube with my crazy color scheme again the improved ergonomics of ZZ F2L might be worth it, and I do like the idea of learning ZZ-CT just for feet. Once I know it for my feet I may just do it with my hands too.



I use ZZ + OCLL + PLL for 3x3, I mainly solve OH, so it works well. I use CFOP on larger cubes, because of the inspection time needed for EOLine. (I stop inspecting when they call out 12s in comp.)

You may find being y neutral helpful, if you aren't already. For OH, I consider y2 neutral to be the minimum.

ZZ-CT and friends are huge alg sets...

COLL is the big win for ZZ from what I understand. Also COLL is the stepping stone to ZBLL if you want it.

EOLine progression works roughly as: Partial EO, full EO, full EO + tracking line pieces but not knowing how to place them, full line, and optimizing your F/B turns to place the edges for a smooth line.


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## One Wheel (Dec 11, 2017)

phreaker said:


> I use ZZ + OCLL + PLL for 3x3, I mainly solve OH, so it works well. I use CFOP on larger cubes, because of the inspection time needed for EOLine. (I stop inspecting when they call out 12s in comp.)
> 
> You may find being y neutral helpful, if you aren't already. For OH, I consider y2 neutral to be the minimum.
> 
> ...



I'll have to look at COLL. CT is appealing in part because of the alleged simplicity of the algs. I'm still working on learning full OLL, which will probably be more helpful than ZZ for big cubes, but I seem to be a bit slow at learning algs. I've been at this nearly 3 years and I know full PLL including 2 or 3 duplicates, 2-look OLL, and about 10-15 other algs. Mostly parity and Ortega PBL, maybe 4-5 other OLL algs.

For EOLine I've never seen it broken down that far, but it makes a lot of sense. I'm about at full EO, but I sometimes wander into tracking edge pieces, and occasionally end up with misoriented edges after I thought I did EO.


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## phreaker (Dec 12, 2017)

One Wheel said:


> I'll have to look at COLL. CT is appealing in part because of the alleged simplicity of the algs. I'm still working on learning full OLL, which will probably be more helpful than ZZ for big cubes, but I seem to be a bit slow at learning algs. I've been at this nearly 3 years and I know full PLL including 2 or 3 duplicates, 2-look OLL, and about 10-15 other algs. Mostly parity and Ortega PBL, maybe 4-5 other OLL algs.
> 
> For EOLine I've never seen it broken down that far, but it makes a lot of sense. I'm about at full EO, but I sometimes wander into tracking edge pieces, and occasionally end up with misoriented edges after I thought I did EO.



I'll confirm full OLL over ZZ for big cubes, without even knowing full OLL. Just imagine a flipped edge on an even order cube.


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## One Wheel (Dec 14, 2017)

I said a few weeks ago that ya'll would need to hop the pond sometime to compete in big cubes. Well, here's your opportunity:
https://www.worldcubeassociation.org/competitions/BigCheeseOpen2018
Pretty excited to have a competition that I actually A) can go to and B) have a fighting chance of making big cube cutoffs. And so far organizing isn't too bad either ;-)


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## mafergut (Dec 14, 2017)

Hi guys! First of all, impressive progress by @Selkie, finally achieven that long-term goal of sub-15 at 3x3. If I had just improved a bit myself but I'm still stuck at 18.xx average. But, in my opinion, you could get half a second faster just by learning 2-sided PLL recognition.

Regarding next year's European Champs in Madrid in July. Any of you coming? I'm considering going, even if only to watch or maybe even to compete on 1st round of 3x3. It would be great to finally know some of you in person!

My Aosu GTS M finally arrived today. I did like 20 solves and I'm not really sure it's any better than my Juki WuQue M. Maybe the base cube is slightly better than the WuQue but the exceptional setup work done by the guys at Juki compensates. Best solve with it was like 1:05 so no sub-1min yet.


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## mark49152 (Dec 14, 2017)

@mafergut , I intend to go as long as I qualify for MBLD. It would be nice to meet you.


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## Shaky Hands (Dec 15, 2017)

One Wheel said:


> I'll have to look at COLL.



I've been learning some COLL recently, now I've finished Full OLL. So far I've learned the T and U cases and am working on L/bowtie. Recognition isn't too bad.



One Wheel said:


> I said a few weeks ago that ya'll would need to hop the pond sometime to compete in big cubes. Well, here's your opportunity:
> https://www.worldcubeassociation.org/competitions/BigCheeseOpen2018
> Pretty excited to have a competition that I actually A) can go to and B) have a fighting chance of making big cube cutoffs. And so far organizing isn't too bad either ;-)



Good luck with the comp. I enjoyed running my first comp last month.



mafergut said:


> Regarding next year's European Champs in Madrid in July. Any of you coming? I'm considering going, even if only to watch or maybe even to compete on 1st round of 3x3. It would be great to finally know some of you in person!



I hope to be there. Although, I'm due to be working that weekend and haven't been able to arrange a swap yet. Fingers crossed...


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## moralsh (Dec 15, 2017)

mafergut said:


> Regarding next year's European Champs in Madrid in July. Any of you coming? I'm considering going, even if only to watch or maybe even to compete on 1st round of 3x3. It would be great to finally know some of you in person!



I'm going to at least staff there so I will be there all 4 days and you should definitely go, it's a great experience. And you should try to get to a comp earlier. El Escorial in May is not that Far to Valladolid, less than 2 hours.

@mark49152 you already qualify for multi. I should start practicing Multi if I want to have a small chance at qualifying

@Shaky Hands I hope 7 months is enough to sort that weekend out 

I had a comp last weekend in which I didn't improve anything, but at least broke my not sub2ing in blind streak. Missed the mean again on 2 of the 3 rounds for not orienting on 1 solve and wrong recall on a pair on the final. That's the 16th 2 out of 3 for me in 3BLD. Meh


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## mark49152 (Dec 15, 2017)

moralsh said:


> @mark49152 you already qualify for multi. I should start practicing Multi if I want to have a small chance at qualifying


It's top 40 registrants as of June 19 so I'm not guaranteed a place. Depends who registers and who improves their rankings in the meantime.

Will the organisers be calling for staff volunteers?


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## moralsh (Dec 15, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> Will the organisers be calling for staff volunteers?



Yep, sure thing, I'll tell you as soon as I know anything about it.


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## newtonbase (Dec 15, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> It's top 40 registrants as of June 19 so I'm not guaranteed a place. Depends who registers and who improves their rankings in the meantime.
> 
> Will the organisers be calling for staff volunteers?


Have you asked James?


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## Bemis (Dec 15, 2017)

Feels like I haven't posted in the thread in forever. I'm still around and cubing like crazy! Loving my Valk 3 Power and the GTS2. Got a Air SM on it's way. Hope everyone is having a happy holiday!


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## muchacho (Dec 16, 2017)

OH PB single:17.806 (was 17.984)



Spoiler



9335 16-dic-2017 12:56:58 00:17.806 L2 D' F2 L2 U F2 U' B2 D2 F2 U' F' D' B' D B2 L' F2 R
z'
Uw M' U2 M' Lw' U Lw U Lw2 z2
U Lw' U' Lw U2 L U' L' U2 M2 Lw U Lw'
U F R' F' R U R U' R'
M' U2 M U M U M' U M' U M' U2 M U' M2 U M' U2 M'

50 STM
2.81 TPS


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## pglewis (Dec 16, 2017)

As luck would have it a comp popped up in Jan with 3bld in MI; as luck wouldn't have it, that's the only day I have a conflict on my calendar. Won't be long though, it's still a vacuum around me but I expect some more regional winter comps.


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## pglewis (Dec 16, 2017)

I'm ever so slowly turning the corner again on 3x3, I got my next milestone of a sub 25 Ao12. 22s and 23s make me yawn now when I'm in a groove, despite still being my better solves. The time distribution for my short PB Ao12 session shows a good shift towards where I'd hoped all this work would would take me.


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## mafergut (Dec 17, 2017)

Well... I have a problem now in deciding about my 4x4 main cube. After doing over 100 solves with the Aosu GTS M I'm really liking it a lot, even though getting used to the hard magnets in the middle slices is taking some time.

I finished a comparison video against my current main, the WuQue magnetized by Juki Mods and, during the recording of the video I got a 53.xx second solve on each of the cubes, sadly not on camera but I got a 59.xx solve on cam on the WuQue, a 58.xx on the Aosu and, when I was about to switch off the camera... I got a new PB on the Aosu. The 59.xx and the new PB (you will have to watch the video to see the solve and the time ) start at 14:00 mark in the video below.


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## Bemis (Dec 18, 2017)

I've been sticking to 3x3 for my first year, but just ordered a WuQue M last night. Can't wait to give it a few spins.


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## Shaky Hands (Dec 18, 2017)

Good luck @Bemis. I enjoy solving bigger cubes so much more than 3x3. Hope you get a similar enjoyment.


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## openseas (Dec 18, 2017)

Brief update from Skillcon 2017

Miserable 3x3 even with my first comp PLL skip. May need to start practice again.

3BLD -2:26 (meh)
5BLD : DNF(2) DNS, first DNF, one cap fell off during execution - thought about regulation /what to do - that pause made me lost what I was doing. 2nd attempt: execution errors (a lot). Time was 41 & 31 mins
MBLD: 4/7, the 3rd consecutive time I've got 4/7. This time, though, I reviewed my memo & scrambles after the comp: all tracings were correct, 2 cubes - forgot to execute one letter pair (each cube), 1 cube - execution error - BU target, I'm using UMUMUMUM' - thing, but made one more U turn which screwed up the rest. After reviewing this, felt better since at least I know my trace (my usual suspect) was correct.

BTW, the 3x3 final was great. The final match between Max and Seung (people usually call him Nahm), it was just like the world 2017. They made back to back 4s, first ever during the comp. That was awesome to watch - Max got 4.78 which made everybody excited then followed by Seung's 4.99 - the entire venue was almost exploded.

Side notes:
- Slow park (Danny Sungin Park) almost beat fast Park (Max) but missed by last solve penalty (+2).
- Seung and Max, they get along really well. Happy to see Max find him really comfortable and Seung responds to him really well. (for those of you who know about Max a little bit, it is a big thing).
- Seung and all top 555 cubers loved my DIY magnetized Yusin. (Not sure I uploaded the picture here, probably not). I attached magnets inside center pieces for inner layer (3x1.5 N35). For outer layer, just conventional method with 4x1.5 and 5x1 mix. (Unofficially), Seung said, "it's way better than the Cubicle version", haha...


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## Bart Van Eynde (Dec 19, 2017)

Damn, got my first 4x4 yesterday and did a couple of solves on it. Slowly getting some more inside in what to do, but i expected to get like 4/5 mins solves ... again damn ... it's harder then i thought. Doing like 7 - 10 min solves :/
Guess practice is what needs to be done


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## pglewis (Dec 19, 2017)

Bart Van Eynde said:


> Damn, got my first 4x4 yesterday and did a couple of solves on it. Slowly getting some more inside in what to do, but i expected to get like 4/5 mins solves ... again damn ... it's harder then i thought. Doing like 7 - 10 min solves :/
> Guess practice is what needs to be done



I'm not very good, in the 2-3 min range on 4x4, but I would guess most of your time is tied up in solving centers and pairing edges. If you're just using straight reduction I would suggest looking into Yau and Hoya. They are comparable methods just different, most people discover a personal preference for one or the other.


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## Bart Van Eynde (Dec 19, 2017)

pglewis said:


> I'm not very good, in the 2-3 min range on 4x4, but I would guess most of your time is tied up in solving centers and pairing edges. If you're just using straight reduction I would suggest looking into Yau and Hoya. They are comparable methods just different, most people discover a personal preference for one or the other.


I do use Yau atm. Didn't bother to learn the reduction method 
And indeed, i seem to have the most problems with the centers. I somehow keep messing up the partial cross or messing up the color scheme. But that must be the noob-factor i guess


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## Bart Van Eynde (Dec 19, 2017)

Bart Van Eynde said:


> I do use Yau atm. Didn't bother to learn the reduction method
> And indeed, i seem to have the most problems with the centers. I somehow keep messing up the partial cross or messing up the color scheme. But that must be the noob-factor i guess


Just got a 5:33  Seems like i'm getting better. (no parities though)


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## CuberJK77 (Dec 20, 2017)

Hi there, 

I wanna join the club of the old guys...... 

Introduced me at this thread :
https://www.speedsolving.com/forum/threads/40-years-old-guy-from-germany.67281/

Regards 


I'm waiting for 3 orders from 2 different shops and will review my experiences in short when they arrive. On it's way are:
Weilong Gts2, mf3rs, qiyi qidi, Yuan, zheng, Warriorw and the yuexiao pro m.

I know, too much too early, but hey, like in futurama "take my money"


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## JohnnyReggae (Dec 20, 2017)

CuberJK77 said:


> Hi there,
> 
> I wanna join the club of the old guys......
> 
> ...


Welcome to the oldies club ...

One main difference between the older generation and the younger is that we have a little more disposable income to splurge on cubes. I found my collection expanding rapidly.... but now I'm trying to sell off those that I don't use 

Well done on the times ... jut keep practicing and they will come down fairly quickly.


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## Bemis (Dec 20, 2017)

Welcome @CuberJK77 ! Sounds like a great list of goodies. I have my first 4x4 showing up today, so I know what the wait feels like. I carry a GTS2 with me in a bag every where I go and I have an extra sitting on my desk. It just feels so good in hand. Enjoy them all though!


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## Bemis (Dec 20, 2017)

JohnnyReggae said:


> One main difference between the older generation and the younger is that we have a little more disposable income to splurge on cubes.



I hear ya there. I need to stop browsing shops and stop watching "review" videos. Haha. I have so many 3x3s on my desk, it's getting hard to find my coffee cup.


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## CuberJK77 (Dec 20, 2017)

That's it, cubes everywhere. One for the living room, one at work, one for the train, one....... 
And, if i don't stop, many budgetcubes for "designing paintings", so you use the cubies as pixels. Makes a lot of fun, and is my current sport. Got some serious heart issues, so normal physical activities arent possible.


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## Bemis (Dec 20, 2017)

Sorry to hear about the heart issues. Yeah the biggest plus with cubing is I don't have to plug it in, I don't have to remember to charge it, I don't need to take spare batteries and it's small enough I can almost always have one with me. 



CuberJK77 said:


> That's it, cubes everywhere. One for the living room, one at work, one for the train, one.......
> And, if i don't stop, many budgetcubes for "designing paintings", so you use the cubies as pixels. Makes a lot of fun, and is my current sport. Got some serious heart issues, so normal physical activities arent possible.


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## JohnnyReggae (Dec 20, 2017)

Managed to finally break my ao12 PB for 3x3 .... 14.32  Had a good streak today with 42 of my 100 solves being sub-15. Got a lucky pll skip on the 10 which is only 6-tenths of a second off my PB.


----------------------------------
Generated By csTimer on 2017-12-20
avg of 12: 14.32

Time List:
1. (10.17) L2 F2 U2 R2 U R2 D' R2 U R' D L2 R U F L2 U B' L2 
2. 13.69 L' F2 R' F2 D2 B2 U2 R2 F2 R' D2 U' B L' R D' U R2 F R' 
3. 15.71 D' B2 R2 L2 D' R2 D' F2 L' D2 B' R2 D2 R2 F' R2 F' R2 
4. 16.97 D2 R B L D' L2 B' U' R B2 U' D' R2 U F2 L2 F2 L2 U' L' 
5. (18.63) R L2 U L B D B' U2 R' L2 U2 F2 B' D2 B R2 B D' 
6. 13.64 R2 F2 U2 F2 U2 F2 L2 R U L' F R' F R2 U2 L' F' U 
7. 12.27 D' R2 U' R' D' L D B2 R' U2 F2 B R2 F U2 F' B2 L2 R' 
8. 13.57 F2 R2 L D' F U2 R' F' U F2 R2 U2 B' R2 F' D2 F' R2 F' B' 
9. 14.15 L2 D2 F' L2 U2 F L2 D2 F R2 U2 L' B L' B2 R' D L R D2 
10. 14.98 R' U2 B' R2 U' F R2 U R L U L2 B2 U' D2 L2 F2 U B2 L2 
11. 13.87 U2 F2 U2 R2 F2 L2 D B2 U F2 L2 F' D L F2 U2 R2 D' B U2 R' 
12. 14.33 U B2 L2 D' U' L2 D R2 U F U' F U' L' F2 R2 B U R


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## pglewis (Dec 20, 2017)

Bart Van Eynde said:


> Just got a 5:33  Seems like i'm getting better. (no parities though)



I would search out a video or two on Yau half-centers, J Perm in particular has a good one on YouTube. You'll knock the time off quickly at this stage with some practice. 








CuberJK77 said:


> Hi there,
> 
> I wanna join the club of the old guys......
> 
> ...



Welcome to the old folks home!


----------



## Bart Van Eynde (Dec 20, 2017)

CuberJK77 said:


> Hi there,
> 
> I wanna join the club of the old guys......
> 
> ...


Welcome to the forum.


----------



## Jason Green (Dec 21, 2017)

CuberJK77 said:


> Hi there,
> 
> I wanna join the club of the old guys......
> 
> ...


Welcome to the forum! One suggestion someone made on your other post is check out algdb or some other sites besides badmephisto. A lot of his are good but a few aren't as great. I learned full OLL and PLL pretty much entirely from him and still have some I should change but just haven't done it yet.


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## JohnnyReggae (Dec 21, 2017)

Jason Green said:


> Welcome to the forum! One suggestion someone made on your other post is check out algdb or some other sites besides badmephisto. A lot of his are good but a few aren't as great. I learned full OLL and PLL pretty much entirely from him and still have some I should change but just haven't done it yet.


I also learnt my OLL and PLL from Badmephisto and Bob Burton http://www.cubewhiz.com/index.php

I've changed quite a few of them since then, and mirrored some to my left hand. Probably not the best thing to do apparently, but works for me at the moment.

Algdb is an awesome place to look for algs. I wish there was an Android app for it.


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## CuberJK77 (Dec 21, 2017)

Woa, that's quite a lot of algs. I think i'll print them out and try which suits best to me. Don't know why, but the r U R' U' r' F R F' got at about 30 secs into my brain / muscles, it felt completely natural. Got to look at the alg.db closer.....


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## pglewis (Dec 21, 2017)

JohnnyReggae said:


> [...] and mirrored some to my left hand. Probably not the best thing to do apparently [...]



I'm curious what the argument against this is. My attitude is, if a particular right-handed alg is the best ergonomic solution for a case... then why wouldn't the left-handed version of that alg be the best ergonomic solution for the L/R mirror? There is nothing different about how my left hand moves vs. my right other than dominant hand advantage (which diminishes with practice).


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## One Wheel (Dec 21, 2017)

pglewis said:


> I'm curious what the argument against this is. My attitude is, if a particular right-handed alg is the best ergonomic solution for a case... then why wouldn't the left-handed version of that alg be the best ergonomic solution for the L/R mirror? There is nothing different about how my left hand moves vs. my right other than dominant hand advantage (which diminishes with practice).


I think the argument is that most of the time people practice RH algs, so the disparity increases rather than decreases. I mostly mirror, because I'm not so good at learning algs, but I do have different Ja and Jb algs.


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## pglewis (Dec 21, 2017)

One Wheel said:


> I think the argument is that most of the time people practice RH algs, so the disparity increases rather than decreases. I mostly mirror, because I'm not so good at learning algs, but I do have different Ja and Jb algs.



I can kinda see that argument for someone sub-1'ing all PLLs... but I have to question if it's good advice for someone starting from scratch and for whom even right-handed algs are still slow and finger tricks are being learned.

[Edit: I figured out the LH mirror for my Jb alg about 3 weeks ago and have been practicing it, though I see no reason to ditch the one I had been using... if I keep both versions fresh I'm never more than a U or U' away from executing one of them]


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## Bemis (Dec 21, 2017)

Speaking of ordering too many cubes, while waiting on my WuQue M, which could take awhile, these showed up last night. Auso M and a Cyclone Boys G4.

I had watched a few solves while waiting on these and decided to skip beginners method and went straight into Yau. I've got my edge parity alg down and I'm working on getting my PLL alg into muscle memory. It's really close.

Really enjoying the 4x4. Only problem I have found is that I dreamed all night last night about moving centers around on it. Yikes! 

As to the advice on trying different algs, it's a wonderful suggestion. When I started out, I noticed that there were many ways to do certain algs while watching finger trick videos. I'm not sure that any of the algs I do now were in that original lineup of algs I was doing. I just did as many as I could find and made notes of the ones that felt really good. For me, adding the M slice is what did it. It just feels so comfortable.

So many great resources these days. Be sure to check out what others are doing in solve videos etc. It might just change your perspective.


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## Jason Green (Dec 21, 2017)

pglewis said:


> I'm curious what the argument against this is. My attitude is, if a particular right-handed alg is the best ergonomic solution for a case... then why wouldn't the left-handed version of that alg be the best ergonomic solution for the L/R mirror? There is nothing different about how my left hand moves vs. my right other than dominant hand advantage (which diminishes with practice).


If you can overcome the hand dominance with practice you've got a big advantage over me. I have some mirror algs, like R perm. I've drilled L - Lefty double flick L' Lefty double flick a ton but still slow with it. I try to use it in solves instead of right double flick though so maybe it'll improve some day.


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## mark49152 (Dec 22, 2017)

Nice to see everyone's updates and progress as always.

Since I have a 3 month gap between competitions, I decided to stop practising solves and learn some of the things I've been putting off because I knew making those changes would disrupt my performance. So for the last couple of weeks I have been reviewing my corner comms and replacing many of them to try to make them more ergonomic, favouring right hand and minimising regrips. Some of my old comms had F2 or B moves in the setups, or awkward regrips and left hand sequences, and it was a waste of time to practise those further. I have about 80% done now and they flow so much better. My corner exec is several seconds slower due to the extra thinking, and will probably take some weeks to return to what it was, but once I am finished, I should have better potential for improving exec further.

I also plan to start swapping UL and UB during memo, add some edge comms, and add some centre comms to my big BLD, all in time to get comfortable and back up to speed for Manchester in February!


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## Bemis (Dec 22, 2017)

It's hard to believe the year is coming to an end and a new is around the corner.

Sticking with Yau on 4x4, I've got my head wrapped around half centers and that changed everything. From there it's 3-2-3. For parity, I've got down an edge flip and edge swaps. So far, those have helped me solve any parity issues. Been sitting on the couch with the TV running doing solves all night without peeking at algs. I picked up a 3x3 after hours of 4x4 and was blown away by how fast it felt. haha


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## pglewis (Dec 22, 2017)

Jason Green said:


> If you can overcome the hand dominance with practice you've got a big advantage over me. I have some mirror algs, like R perm. I've drilled L - Lefty double flick L' Lefty double flick a ton but still slow with it. I try to use it in solves instead of right double flick though so maybe it'll improve some day.



Lefty sexy and sledgehammer are pretty natural for me at this point. Triple sexy isn't going to be as fast from the left for me as it is from the right but it does beat a rotation + right triple sexy. I haven't mirrored many PLLs or OCLLs, those are my oldest and most burned-in algs, but for the rest of OLL I've mirrored pretty much everything that isn't symmetric. I tend to remember "F - sexy - F' - sexy - sledge" so quite a few are really easy to learn the mirror without much thought. For the cases I've already developed some decent recognition, like lightning bolt, most times I probably couldn't tell you if it was lefty or righty. Visual cues start it and muscle memory takes over. Longer term I also practice sexy and sledge in the back slots, when I'm doing untimed and slow turn solves. Not very fast but finally not completely awkward for me either, I'm comfortable enough to occasionally throw those in during F2L with the clock running.

I'm finally down to just a single OLL that I haven't picked an alg for: Highway/Freeway... and it's amazing how frequently it seems to turn up now, 1/108 odds notwithstanding. I've pretty much broken the old 2-look habit completely at this point with a few stubborn ones that I still find difficult to recognize and AUF quickly. To practice the dot OLLs I've had to make a conscious effort to stop last slot twiddling, I didn't realize how much that had become routine for me to avoid dot cases.


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## h2f (Dec 22, 2017)

pglewis said:


> There is nothing different about how my left hand moves vs. my right other than dominant hand advantage (which diminishes with practice).



I've found a distinct difference between my left and right hand. I'm right handed and I used to play guitar with normal postition doing chords with left hand. Still some algs with left hand like Ja perm (I use a mirror of Jb) are slower than right handed. Last week I've rearranged all of my 3bld corners comms for being right handed. I dont know whats the cause is of it but I've noticed a distinct difference between them.



mark49152 said:


> I decided to stop practising solves and learn some of the things I've been putting off because I knew making those changes would disrupt my performance. So for the last couple of weeks I have been reviewing my corner comms and replacing many of them to try to make them more ergonomic, favouring right hand and minimising regrips.



Count me in. I have an injury in my right hand and I cant do M moves and doing it with left hand is much slower. So I've decided to review all of my comms and change them: no regrips (only x), longer setups (like 4 moves but all R U D group) etc. In many cases I was following Ishaan's solutions though sometimes I've rearranged them to my understandig of how they works. Ishaan got some nice tricks which make some cases easier.


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## JohnnyReggae (Dec 22, 2017)

pglewis said:


> I'm curious what the argument against this is. My attitude is, if a particular right-handed alg is the best ergonomic solution for a case... then why wouldn't the left-handed version of that alg be the best ergonomic solution for the L/R mirror? There is nothing different about how my left hand moves vs. my right other than dominant hand advantage (which diminishes with practice).


I think the main reason which I have seen J-Perm on YouTube mention is due to the regrips required to swap between righty and lefty algs (can't find the video now where he mentions it). It makes sense as regrips do slow you down, but even more so when swapping between hands. However I think for anyone that is not sub-10 that shouldn't really be a big deal.

I use quite a few lefty algs that have been mirrored from righty algs, both in PLL and OLL. The lefty's are generally slower than the righty ones, but that difference is milliseconds really in the end so I'm happy to stick with them. If I do manage to start averaging near the 10 second mark I may change my mind and learn other algs, but for now I'm good


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## JanW (Dec 22, 2017)

pglewis said:


> I'm curious what the argument against this is. My attitude is, if a particular right-handed alg is the best ergonomic solution for a case... then why wouldn't the left-handed version of that alg be the best ergonomic solution for the L/R mirror? There is nothing different about how my left hand moves vs. my right other than dominant hand advantage (which diminishes with practice).


Actually there is a difference between how they move. If you are right handed, you've spent a life time practicing your right hand more than your left. That difference won't be overcome very easily. Especially not as you are also most likely practicing right handed algs a lot more while cubing. I'd assume you have more RUF-algs in your arsenal than LUF.

I got my GTS2 M yesterday. I was totally amazed by the speed!! ... of the service at the post office.  Second last weekday before Christmas, I was prepared to wait for at least 30 minutes, but there was no line at all!! The cube itself is also nice. Definitely instant main, but also very different from what I expected. First impression was that magnets are a lot weaker than I expected. I also noticed it does things no other cube has done so far, like overshooting a single U or M' flick all the way to a U2 or M2. It will take a while to get used to the new style of turning required. I suppose if I can learn to control the single flick U2, M2 and D2 moves, this could also be a valuable asset.


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## newtonbase (Dec 22, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> I also plan to start swapping UL and UB during memo,


I'm a big fan of this for 3BLD but I forgot to do it on my last edge yesterday costing me a good PB. I think it was because I'd just done a MBLD attempt and I don't use it for that.


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## mark49152 (Dec 22, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> I'm a big fan of this for 3BLD but I forgot to do it on my last edge yesterday costing me a good PB. I think it was because I'd just done a MBLD attempt and I don't use it for that.


Yeah it's one of those things I've been meaning to get round to for ages. It'll help both 3BLD and big BLD but will mess with my multi so I'm undecided what to do about that.

Regarding the left and right hand discussion, another thing to consider is regrips. It costs time to switch between hands and generally if you can keep all the work on one hand you'll get a better flow. And, if you're going to do that, the logical hand to choose is your dominant one.


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## phreaker (Dec 22, 2017)

JanW said:


> I got my GTS2 M yesterday. I was totally amazed by the speed!! ... of the service at the post office.  Second last weekday before Christmas, I was prepared to wait for at least 30 minutes, but there was no line at all!! The cube itself is also nice. Definitely instant main, but also very different from what I expected. First impression was that magnets are a lot weaker than I expected. I also noticed it does things no other cube has done so far, like overshooting a single U or M' flick all the way to a U2 or M2. It will take a while to get used to the new style of turning required. I suppose if I can learn to control the single flick U2, M2 and D2 moves, this could also be a valuable asset.



Lube can also be used to slow a cube down a bit and give it a feel more like you are used to. Traxxas 10-30-50k are all good for that IMHO.


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## pglewis (Dec 22, 2017)

h2f said:


> I've found a distinct difference between my left and right hand. I'm right handed and I used to play guitar with normal postition doing chords with left hand.



35 years as a guitar player and I'm most definitely useless left handed. I had difficultly even tuning a lefty guitar the last time I picked one up; everything, including my tuning instincts, are turned on their head. But on a cube for me this seems more akin to when I started using a thumb-pick and taking up finger picking after being exclusively a flat-pick player my whole life (plectrum for some of you). Very clumsy and awkward at first but I'm stubborn enough to simulate "patience". The clumsiness faded after a year or two and 6 or 7 years into it I occasionally sound competent. 



JanW said:


> Actually there is a difference between how they move. If you are right handed, you've spent a life time practicing your right hand more than your left. That difference won't be overcome very easily. Especially not as you are also most likely practicing right handed algs a lot more while cubing. I'd assume you have more RUF-algs in your arsenal than LUF.



I can't discount the inherent dominant hand advantage but my point was, that aside, my left is fully capable of making the exact same movements as my right... also keeping in mind I'm not all _that_ far removed from learning finger tricks from scratch. I'm probably still in the 2-3 second range on average PLL execution, the absolute best I've logged is a 1.6 for Ua (though it's been a while since I timed algs). At my fastest I still don't turn all that "fast" and my right never managed much of a head start in cubing before I started giving the left some attention. 

RUD is one area I haven't mirrored with LUD algs. Those are primarily PLLs, which I learned before I got into mirroring and practicing as much with the left and there hasn't been a compelling reason to convert any yet. I don't do lefty U2s very well at _all_ but sexy and sledge triggers don't lag behind my right-handed ones by too much. Oddly enough, I primarily do all my M slices with the left and those have always been naturally more comfortable for me than with the right. 



JohnnyReggae said:


> I think the main reason which I have seen J-Perm on YouTube mention is due to the regrips required to swap between righty and lefty algs





mark49152 said:


> Regarding the left and right hand discussion, another thing to consider is regrips.



Yeah I didn't fully consider the regrip factor, though it's difficult for me to tell which contexts will end up costing me and which might actually be beneficial. My F2L lookahead is so bad that I typically can't run fast enough to evaluate the long term cost of regrips there. Hopefully, if I'm hurting myself it'll fall into the "good problem to have" category and because I'm stuck at 13s averages or something. 

I'm also not sure how much that still applies for OLL, assuming I go into it in neutral grip. P (OLL 44) has the beautiful 6-move Fw - sexy - Fw' and I love the mirror for OLL 43 equally. And even though the T's are symmetric it's nice to avoid U2s if they end up aligned lefty.


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## openseas (Dec 22, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> Yeah it's one of those things I've been meaning to get round to for ages. It'll help both 3BLD and big BLD but will mess with my multi so I'm undecided what to do about that.
> 
> Regarding the left and right hand discussion, another thing to consider is regrips. It costs time to switch between hands and generally if you can keep all the work on one hand you'll get a better flow. And, if you're going to do that, the logical hand to choose is your dominant one.



I decided to learn Orozco for corners as a bridge to 3 style then realized that better start switching to this UL/UB swap. 
My left hand trick (L & D) is not good / fast, it will take a time for Orozco (meaning being faster than OP). I have 3 comps in next 3 months but as always, not gonna focus on comp results (except 5BLD success , plan to stay on this practice.


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## phreaker (Dec 22, 2017)

openseas said:


> I decided to learn Orozco for corners as a bridge to 3 style then realized that better start switching to this UL/UB swap.
> My left hand trick (L & D) is not good / fast, it will take a time for Orozco (meaning being faster than OP). I have 3 comps in next 3 months but as always, not gonna focus on comp results (except 5BLD success , plan to stay on this practice.



Is there a good english tutorial for Orozco? I've got an interest in learning more BLD stuff.


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## Bart Van Eynde (Dec 22, 2017)

Bemis said:


> It's hard to believe the year is coming to an end and a new is around the corner.
> 
> Sticking with Yau on 4x4, I've got my head wrapped around half centers and that changed everything. From there it's 3-2-3. For parity, I've got down an edge flip and edge swaps. So far, those have helped me solve any parity issues. Been sitting on the couch with the TV running doing solves all night without peeking at algs. I picked up a 3x3 after hours of 4x4 and was blown away by how fast it felt. haha


I also started directly with yau for 4x4x4. Have it for like a week or so and still messing things up quite easily 
Also just learned about half centers and it also did wonders for me. Was averaging like 7 min before half centers and now like 5:30 mins. Still very slow i know, but comming from 10+ min solves i reduced my times by half


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## pglewis (Dec 22, 2017)

JanW said:


> Definitely instant main, but also very different from what I expected. First impression was that magnets are a lot weaker than I expected. I also noticed it does things no other cube has done so far, like overshooting a single U or M' flick all the way to a U2 or M2. It will take a while to get used to the new style of turning required.



I probably should have tempered my earlier comments with the note that I've developed a fondness for very fast cubes and developed a lighter touch over this past year


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## Selkie (Dec 23, 2017)

Thanks all for the feedback on the ao5. I will reemphasise what I have said for years. I gain more motivation from my fellow oldies to progress than from any other source.

@JohnnyReggae - Loved the display project, great work, might have a stab at something Windows IOT if I can find the time. Great Ao12 PB too sir 

@CuberJK77 - Welcome to the cubing equivalent of the old peoples home. Always good to see another more mature cuber join the fold. Hope you enjoy your new found addiction sir! 

@Jason Green - Hope you are keeping well buddy and the boys looking forward to Christmas? Any practice recently matey?


Seen some great progress of late overall. If I was to pick a reason it is most likely motivation following Weston-super-Mare Open. In 2x2 - 7x7 I think I have had PBs in the last two weeks in all but 3x3 single. I have stood by "Slow down and lookahead" for many years but the irony is all my PBs are slow solves. Here are a couple of single solves this week...


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## mark49152 (Dec 23, 2017)

openseas said:


> I decided to learn Orozco for corners as a bridge to 3 style





phreaker said:


> Is there a good english tutorial for Orozco? I've got an interest in learning more BLD stuff.


IMHO, if you intend to go for 3style Orozco is not worth the effort as a stepping stone. If you're going to learn 21 comms you may as well learn how to set up to them to solve two pieces at a time and get more bang for your buck. Just my 2 cents.


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## Bemis (Dec 23, 2017)

That's awesome! My first timed solve was 5:19 with an edge swap and an edge flip. I'll take that. I wanted to make sure I didn't have to look anything up before I brought a timer into play. Now that I really have had some time with half centers, it's incredible. Really, really wrapped my head around 3-2-3 today. I was getting the concept of the first 3, but was a bit confused on how to solve as I was slicing back during the 2nd part. Now that I fully have those last steps, it's much better. Never had any interest in bigger cubes because I really wanted to focus on 3x3 for quite a while, but I'm glad I branched out. Switching back to a 3x3 after doing 4x4 makes 3x3 feel really quick and snappy. 



Bart Van Eynde said:


> I also started directly with yau for 4x4x4. Have it for like a week or so and still messing things up quite easily
> Also just learned about half centers and it also did wonders for me. Was averaging like 7 min before half centers and now like 5:30 mins. Still very slow i know, but comming from 10+ min solves i reduced my times by half


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## openseas (Dec 23, 2017)

phreaker said:


> Is there a good english tutorial for Orozco? I've got an interest in learning more BLD stuff.



Not that I'm aware of. But you can find it from 3 style tutorial. 3 style solves two targets at the same time which requires quite a lot of comms to cover all cases whereas Orozco is to solve only one as a subset of 3 style by fixing one target.
Just get the copy of a top blder's 3 style comm list and learn one case (meaning UFR or UBR or etc...). That is basically the Orozco.

You can find a basic concept from the link below, though.
https://www.speedsolving.com/forum/threads/how-the-orozco-bld-method-works.60487/


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## Jason Green (Dec 23, 2017)

Selkie said:


> Thanks all for the feedback on the ao5. I will reemphasise what I have said for years. I gain more motivation from my fellow oldies to progress than from any other source.
> 
> @JohnnyReggae - Loved the display project, great work, might have a stab at something Windows IOT if I can find the time. Great Ao12 PB too sir
> 
> ...


Yes they are! We are driving up to Missouri tomorrow to have Christmas with my family. We already did 2 Christmases so to speak, at our home and at my sister's house. 

I had a pretty good day of practice the other day, like 100 3x3 and maybe 30 4x4 and some 5x5. Overall I haven't really felt like sitting down to do it much. There is a March competition with a 1:15 4x4 cutoff though so that is going to motivate me to try and get a PB average. I'll get back into practicing blind one of these days just not sure when yet.


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## openseas (Dec 23, 2017)

Now, 2018 US Nats information & details have been announced including cutoffs.
Who will be going?

Cutoffs for all BLD events have been tightened compared to the last year, almost 50% in times.
3BLD - 4min (10 min in 2017)
4BLD - 10min (20 min in 2017)
5BLD - 20min (40 min in 2017)
MBLD - 6 points (5 points in 2017)

I'm only qualified for 3x3 and 3BLD, need to work more on all other BLDs to be able to compete in Nats. I guess pretty much this will be my main goal in terms of cubing for 2018 

- 3x3 cutoff is 30s avg now. I need to start improving before it goes down to 20s cutoff.
- 2 rounds of 3BLD (compared to 3 rounds of 3BLD in Worlds) - it's debatable but looks like the concern is more related to organization (quiet events at the main stage but with the limited competitors)
- the registration fee has been gone up to $99. Not that I'm complaining, but I think they need to start considering fees from the spectators. When I organize the comp, the biggest challenge is the size of the venue - you need to factor 2x to accommodate spectators which kinda double the venue fee. Kit mentioned that they will consider after this year, the key point is how to implement and maintain (since it needs extra resources) which I agree.

https://cubingusa.org/nationals/2018


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## pglewis (Dec 23, 2017)

Jason Green said:


> Yes they are! We are driving up to Missouri tomorrow to have Christmas with my family. We already did 2 Christmases so to speak, at our home and at my sister's house.



All my thoughts and love to you and the family, Jason!


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## openseas (Dec 23, 2017)

Jason Green said:


> I had a pretty good day of practice the other day, like 100 3x3 and maybe 30 4x4 and some 5x5. Overall I haven't really felt like sitting down to do it much. There is a March competition with a 1:15 4x4 cutoff though so that is going to motivate me to try and get a PB average. I'll get back into practicing blind one of these days just not sure when yet.



We'll have a DFW comp in Feb 11th as well : 3, 5, 7 cubes, all odd numbered cubes


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## h2f (Dec 23, 2017)

openseas said:


> Cutoffs for all BLD events have been tightened compared to the last year, almost 50% in times.
> 3BLD - 4min (10 min in 2017)
> 4BLD - 10min (20 min in 2017)
> 5BLD - 20min (40 min in 2017)
> MBLD - 6 points (5 points in 2017)



All cutoffs looks reasonable and I dont think thye are too high.


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## Jason Green (Dec 23, 2017)

openseas said:


> Now, 2018 US Nats information & details have been announced including cutoffs.
> Who will be going?
> 
> Cutoffs for all BLD events have been tightened compared to the last year, almost 50% in times.
> ...


Yeah all I could do is 3x3 unless I improve a lot more at 4x4 or blind in the next two months. I mean I guess I could do 2x2 but that doesn't mean anything to me. So no, I will probably not go. Maybe 2017 will be the only year I get to go. 



pglewis said:


> All my thoughts and love to you and the family, Jason!


Thank you so much. 



openseas said:


> We'll have a DFW comp in Feb 11th as well : 3, 5, 7 cubes, all odd numbered cubes


Cool, I thought y'all were talking about one in Feb also, that'll be great!


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## Lid (Dec 24, 2017)

Finally! My First sub 10 3x3 single!
*9.302* D2 L2 U2 L D2 R U2 B2 L B2 L2 D F2 L2 R' B' L' U R' B R2
x2 R' D' F L U2 x' u
R' U R
U' L' U' L
U R U R' L U L'
U' R U R'
r U R' U' r' F R F' U // Skip ...
33 HTM ...


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## muchacho (Dec 24, 2017)

Cool, congrats!

Since I'm (almost) averaging 18.6 I've filmed a faster Ao5 for the Youtube playlist:


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## SpartanSailor (Dec 26, 2017)

Howdy guys! Just thought I'd introduce myself briefly... name is Jeremy. I joined the forum sometime last year (not too long ago) to participate in the race to sub-x 3x3 weekly competitions. I hit a plateau and frustration set in, so I haven't participated in those threads for some time.

I note that many/most of you are BLD, multi-Blind and big blind solvers. Wow. Much respect. That's pretty over my head right now. I know if I wanted to commit the time that I could eventually figure it out, but I'm not sure I could dedicate that kind of time to learning an entire new method and algs right now. 

I mostly solve my 3x3, but over the last few months have added 2x2 and Skewb to the mix. I actually enjoy those later two and have fun with skewb. I'm SLOW by most any standard in all the events that I compete, but speed comes with time and I enjoy solving the puzzles. I have recently taken a liking to 4x4. I wanted to compete 4x4 so I started to adding it to my registration, but using reduction method I could never reach the hard cutoff at 2:00. I learned Yau a few weeks ago (maybe a month) and right away saw some significant progress. But, just as quickly I've already plateaued on that as well. I did hit 1:41 in my competition so got an official single... it'll be a LONG time before I can hit the 1:15 limit to get a full Ao5 with 4x4 in comp.

FWIW, I'm an official 27s 3x3 solver, but tend to be closer to 25s in practice (this weekend I was having great times and even averaged 21--which is CRAZY for me). 

Being an "old guy" I find that I gravitate to this thread regularly and figured it was high-time to join in. 

Regarding 2018 US Nats... no way I can justify the travel and cost (hotels, rental car, flights, etc...) this year since we will be moving in July as well. 

Sorry for the long intro... I'll try to add value occasionally if I can!


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## One Wheel (Dec 26, 2017)

SpartanSailor said:


> I have recently taken a liking to 4x4. I wanted to compete 4x4 so I started to adding it to my registration, but using reduction method I could never reach the hard cutoff at 2:00. I learned Yau a few weeks ago (maybe a month) and right away saw some significant progress. But, just as quickly I've already plateaued on that as well. I did hit 1:41 in my competition so got an official single... it'll be a LONG time before I can hit the 1:15 limit to get a full Ao5 with 4x4 in comp.



Not sure what part of the world you're in, but I'm organizing a comp in about 3 1/2 weeks with 1:45/3:30 cutoffs for 4x4. TBH I'm getting a little worried: the only people who have finished signing up are staff.


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## SpartanSailor (Dec 26, 2017)

That's my kind of cutoff! I'm in Virginia.... perhaps a bit too far if you're in Wisconsin. I actually have given some thought to organizing a comp. I've met a few delegates and see them regularly at local comps. Aside from making a time limit that would allow me to get an Ao5, I can't think of what other events would be "unique" or draw sufficient number of participants to make it worth doing. 

Note: I've never organized a comp either... I'd have a few things to learn.


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## One Wheel (Dec 26, 2017)

SpartanSailor said:


> That's my kind of cutoff! I'm in Virginia.... perhaps a bit too far if you're in Wisconsin. I actually have given some thought to organizing a comp. I've met a few delegates and see them regularly at local comps. Aside from making a time limit that would allow me to get an Ao5, I can't think of what other events would be "unique" or draw sufficient number of participants to make it worth doing.
> 
> Note: I've never organized a comp either... I'd have a few things to learn.



VA's not so bad! I went to college in Purcellville (basically between Dulles and Winchester). I'd pull out around noon or 1:00, hit Chicago around 1:00 or 2:00 AM, and be home by 7:00. Theoretically you could skip two consecutive nights of sleep and only be away from home from midday Friday to midday Sunday. 

I've never organized a comp either, and I've only been to 1. It's not that hard, at least so far.


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## SpartanSailor (Dec 26, 2017)

I am all about the road-warrior stuff... I'll drive all night to get somewhere. I have friends in Chicago, I might be able to make a trip to visit them, then, I'd be "in the neighborhood" already for a Wisconsin comp!


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## openseas (Dec 26, 2017)

SpartanSailor said:


> I am all about the road-warrior stuff... I'll drive all night to get somewhere. I have friends in Chicago, I might be able to make a trip to visit them, then, I'd be "in the neighborhood" already for a Wisconsin comp!



Welcome to the club!
There are a lot of comps within driving distance from VA especially since you're one of the road-warrior


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## SpartanSailor (Dec 26, 2017)

openseas said:


> Welcome to the club!
> There are a lot of comps within driving distance from VA especially since you're one of the road-warrior


I started competing about a year ago... Aside from 2017 Nationals (which I took my son to), I haven't had to get too crazy on the road to find events. I've done 11 comps in 13 or so months. VA and MD have a fair number of comps... Add PA and NJ... and you can keep pretty busy on the comp circuit. There are LOTS of fast younger cubers too. I'll probably never see the second round of a competition! LOL


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## openseas (Dec 26, 2017)

SpartanSailor said:


> I started competing about a year ago... Aside from 2017 Nationals (which I took my son to), I haven't had to get too crazy on the road to find events. I've done 11 comps in 13 or so months. VA and MD have a fair number of comps... Add PA and NJ... and you can keep pretty busy on the comp circuit. There are LOTS of fast younger cubers too. I'll probably never see the second round of a competition! LOL



Yes, there are a lot there. We're lucky to have one per month here in Texas. On top of that, even within Texas, I need to drive 5~6 hrs (one way) at least. But we're trying to organize more local comps here in North Texas now. 

Your time is close to mine - never had a chance to go to the 2nd round either 
One time, 100 competitors, the organize decide to cut up to 50 people while I was 51 :-( That was the closest I ever got.


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## SpartanSailor (Dec 26, 2017)

openseas said:


> Yes, there are a lot there. We're lucky to have one per month here in Texas. On top of that, even within Texas, I need to drive 5~6 hrs (one way) at least. But we're trying to organize more local comps here in North Texas now.
> 
> Your time is close to mine - never had a chance to go to the 2nd round either
> One time, 100 competitors, the organize decide to cut up to 50 people while I was 51 :-( That was the closest I ever got.



Yeah, I once was 64 after the first round. The initial cut was at 64, but during lunch the organizers decided to reduce the 2nd round "to save time" and brought the cutline down to 50. I didn't know that, however, until I returned from lunch...

If I drove 5-6 hours, I'd be 3 states away! Texas is HUGE. My daughter lives in the DFW area... Might have to plan a visit and link up with a DFW comp 

I noticed that you came out here to the Maryland 2017 comp back in October too. I was there...


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## pglewis (Dec 26, 2017)

I'm in Cincinnati and it's a black hole for comps right now. The Ann Arbor one is probably about 4hrs one way but of course I have a schedule conflict with the only thing on my calendar for the month of Jan. Won't be too long though, I'm sure.


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## Shaky Hands (Dec 26, 2017)

@Lid - Great time mate, well done.

@SpartanSailor - Welcome to the Oldies thread. I recall you doing the Race to Sub-X back in the day, which I still run. Hope you continue to make good progress.

@One Wheel - I hope attendance picks up for you at your comp. From my experience in running one recently (https://www.worldcubeassociation.org/competitions/WSMO2017) there were several registrations in the closing week, so hopefully you will get similar. Or maybe it will just be a case of Walker and Joshua podiuming in all your events.

Cheers one and all. I hope everyone has had a good festive break.


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## SpartanSailor (Dec 26, 2017)

Shaky Hands said:


> @Lid - Great time mate, well done.
> 
> @SpartanSailor - Welcome to the Oldies thread. I recall you doing the Race to Sub-X back in the day, which I still run. Hope you continue to make good progress.
> 
> ...



I was stuck at the race to sub-25.... got pretty close, then seemed to regress. That's when I decided to do something more than just 3x3 and gave 2x2 and skewb a shot. In the end, I'm having more fun... but still struggle to have consistent 3x3 times in competitions. That said, I'm averaging low 24s over my most recent 100+ solves. I'm much better when I'm relaxed, but then I bet that's true for everyone. Maybe I'll jump back into the weekly 3x3 and see where I'm at now...


----------



## One Wheel (Dec 26, 2017)

Shaky Hands said:


> Or maybe it will just be a case of Walker and Joshua podiuming in all your events.



I'm sure there will be more registrations. I'm more concerned about paying Slater and Brandon than who will win. We didn't allow a ton of extra room for money, and nobody has paid any registration fees yet.


----------



## SpartanSailor (Dec 26, 2017)

Fwiw... I just rejoined the race to sub-25 and posted a 22.9 ao12. I should point out that’s my fastest ao12 in possibly forever! Lol


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## Shaky Hands (Dec 26, 2017)

One Wheel said:


> I'm sure there will be more registrations. I'm more concerned about paying Slater and Brandon than who will win. We didn't allow a ton of extra room for money, and nobody has paid any registration fees yet.



In the UK we originally switched from paying on the door to PayPal prepayments only; and now we use the payments through the WCA site. That seems to have worked well here.

Really hope your comp works out for you.



SpartanSailor said:


> Fwiw... I just rejoined the race to sub-25 and posted a 22.9 ao12. I should point out that’s my fastest ao12 in possibly forever! Lol



Good work and welcome back.


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## openseas (Dec 27, 2017)

SpartanSailor said:


> If I drove 5-6 hours, I'd be 3 states away! Texas is HUGE. My daughter lives in the DFW area... Might have to plan a visit and link up with a DFW comp



You look pretty young to have a daughter far away from your home 
If you can plan a visit to DFW far in advance, let me know - we can come up with something. Jason lives around here, too.




SpartanSailor said:


> I noticed that you came out here to the Maryland 2017 comp back in October too. I was there...



Yes, I was there with my son. It was a long weekend - flew there to join the comp & meet friends @ DC area.
Quite a nice comp, Keaton looks like quite a good organizer.


----------



## newtonbase (Dec 27, 2017)

Welcome @SpartanSailor
I hope you do learn blind. The basics aren't that hard but it does take practice to get it right and it is extremely addictive. 

I'm having a short stay in hospital and I have to say that they have a great set up for cubing. You have a solving station right over the bed and they even provide blindfolds. I did set off an alarm on my drip when solving though but the pretty nurse just  bandaged up the cannula and it's all good.


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## mark49152 (Dec 27, 2017)

@newtonbase - hope you recover quickly and get some uninterrupted practice in the meantime!


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## newtonbase (Dec 27, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> @newtonbase - hope you recover quickly and get some uninterrupted practice in the meantime!


Seems I'm in for another day so plenty of practice time. Hopefully the nurses will leave me alone long enough to do some MBLD. Might stick with 4 cube attempts to work on my rooms. Trying to get a few extra rcubes out of my house.


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## moralsh (Dec 27, 2017)

or some 4 or 5BLD practice @newtonbase  get well as soon as you're bored with practice xD

Welcome @SpartanSailor and any others I might have missed.

And finally Happy birthday @Marcel P, pay us a visit!


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## SpartanSailor (Dec 27, 2017)

openseas said:


> You look pretty your to have a daughter far away from your home
> If you can plan a visit to DFW far in advance, let me know - we can come up with something. Jason lives around here, too.
> 
> 
> ...



I was there with my son too... and Keaton is a good delegate and comp organiser. I think I’m pretty lucky to have him and a few of the guys from Maryland in the “local” area to set up all the comps.


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## SpartanSailor (Dec 27, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> Welcome @SpartanSailor
> I hope you do learn blind. The basics aren't that hard but it does take practice to get it right and it is extremely addictive.
> 
> I'm having a short stay in hospital and I have to say that they have a great set up for cubing. You have a solving station right over the bed and they even provide blindfolds. I did set off an alarm on my drip when solving though but the pretty nurse justView attachment 8762 View attachment 8762 bandaged up the cannula and it's all good.



Maybe 2018 will be the year I learn Blind?? It would be fun and I’m definitely interested.

Hope that hospital stay isn’t too long or too serious. Hope you have a speedy recovery. Nice use of time and no better way to spend your time trapped, uh I mean, stuck at the hospital.


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## Shaky Hands (Dec 27, 2017)

Hope you feel better soon @newtonbase.


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## h2f (Dec 27, 2017)

@newtonbase I hope you will get better very soon.


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## Selkie (Dec 27, 2017)

@newtonbase - Get well soon buddy and take full advantage of the practice time


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## openseas (Dec 27, 2017)

@newtonbase since you're doing BLD and MBLD, it doesn't seem to be critical but hope you get well soon.


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## newtonbase (Dec 27, 2017)

Thanks everyone. It's a peritonsillar abscess. Don't look it up if you have a weak stomach It can get serious but this was caught at the deeply unpleasant stage and I'll be home tomorrow (I think) feeling great.
Got a very slow 1/4 MBLD. Having a drip fitted during memo isn't ideal. I've had that score in 5 of my 7 recent 4 cube attempts. Different types of error but I think lack of focus is base cause.


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## h2f (Dec 27, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> It's a peritonsillar abscess. Don't look it up if you have a weak stomach It can get serious but this was caught at the deeply unpleasant stage and I'll be home tomorrow (I think) feeling great.



Och, it's a serious infection. My wife got it few years ago.


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## newtonbase (Dec 27, 2017)

h2f said:


> Och, it's a serious infection. My wife got it few years ago.


It certainly put a dent in Christmas. 

I hope that your wife didn't suffer too much.


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## SpartanSailor (Dec 27, 2017)

Okay guys... after only a day, I believe you may be a good/bad influence (depends who you ask...). I just watched J-Perm on YouTube explain how to blind solve. My brain already hurts. 

He explained how to do edge-swaps and corner-swaps, then parity. I don't think those algs were too much to add to my brain, but the letters... oh boy. I'm even more impressed that I have a better understanding of how to do it. 

Do you guys practice by writing out the memorization? I couldn't keep up with his example to walk-through developing the memorization--specifically, I wasn't able to keep identify the letter quickly enough to follow along. 

Is the letter for the edge the "position" or the "sticker"? It's the position, right? the current position, or the desired position? IDK... I'll have to let my head un-explode and watch again.


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## newtonbase (Dec 27, 2017)

SpartanSailor said:


> Do you guys practice by writing out the memorization?


 Yes, that's a very useful way to learn. After a little practice turn the page face down and only look when you need too. You can also just solve it sighted but using the blindfold method.



SpartanSailor said:


> I wasn't able to keep identify the letter quickly enough to follow along.


 I labelled a cube with the letter scheme and kept it by me for reference. It doesn't take long to learn. Start with the first letter for each side. Life is easier with the Speffz scheme.



SpartanSailor said:


> Is the letter for the edge the "position" or the "sticker"? It's the position, right? the current position, or the desired position? IDK... I'll have to let my head un-explode and watch again.


 You are looking at the sticker in the buffer position initially and choose the letter where that sticker needs to be.

I'm going to hit _post_ and see at least one better response aren't I?

Edit: Woohoo @mark49152 must be busy


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## openseas (Dec 27, 2017)

SpartanSailor said:


> Okay guys... after only a day, I believe you may be a good/bad influence (depends who you ask...). I just watched J-Perm on YouTube explain how to blind solve. My brain already hurts.
> 
> He explained how to do edge-swaps and corner-swaps, then parity. I don't think those algs were too much to add to my brain, but the letters... oh boy. I'm even more impressed that I have a better understanding of how to do it.
> 
> ...



Again, welcome to the (oldies BLD) club 

First couple of times, it will be easier if you do sighted solves = write down what you memorized (letters) then try to solve it.
That way, you can tell your execution is good enough. After that, practice = pushing your memos further.

The parity is not difficult. You use it only when you have odd number of targets. If number of targets for corners are odd numbers, you'll have odd numbers of edge targets as well. Then, you need to use parity since OP corner algorithm (modified y perm) is swapping UB and UL. But if you have even number of targets, no need.


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## h2f (Dec 27, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> I hope that your wife didn't suffer too much.



All went fine.


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## One Wheel (Dec 27, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> You can also just solve it sighted but using the blindfold method.



I would note that if you're using M2 it's more confusing to execute one target than two, so for sighted solves always do an even number of edge targets at a time.


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## pglewis (Dec 27, 2017)

One Wheel said:


> I would note that if you're using M2 it's more confusing to execute one target than two, so for sighted solves always do an even number of edge targets at a time.



Ditto, plus I'll add if you're not learning M2 from the start (I haven't watched JPerms vids) then you probably should. It's not enough harder to bother learning OP edges first and the move savings vs. OP edges is significant.


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## pglewis (Dec 27, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> It certainly put a dent in Christmas.
> 
> I hope that your wife didn't suffer too much.



Sorry that you've ended up sidelined . Otoh, how close was that solve to your PB?


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## One Wheel (Dec 27, 2017)

pglewis said:


> Ditto, plus I'll add if you're not learning M2 from the start (I haven't watched JPerms vids) then you probably should. It's not enough harder to bother learning OP edges first and the move savings vs. OP edges is significant.


Seconded. Having learned OP edges first myself, it's not worth it.


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## SpartanSailor (Dec 27, 2017)

M2 doesn't ring a bell. I'm guessing J-Perm was using a "beginners" type method, perhaps that is the OP method? I'll have to look up the M2 thing and also look for what Speffz scheme. 

Bottom line: I'm interested now...


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## newtonbase (Dec 28, 2017)

SpartanSailor said:


> M2 doesn't ring a bell. I'm guessing J-Perm was using a "beginners" type method, perhaps that is the OP method? I'll have to look up the M2 thing and also look for what Speffz scheme.
> 
> Bottom line: I'm interested now...


M2 is slightly harder to learn than OP for edges but you will end up using it if you carry on so it's worth a look. 
Speffz is the most common letter scheme and is as easy to learn as any other so it's an obvious choice.
You'll also need to choose your orientation. I'd recommend official WCA with white top and green front. It's easier to follow other people's solves that way.


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## SpartanSailor (Dec 28, 2017)

The lettering scheme doesn’t matter between M2 and OP, right? Just the edge buffer moves (from top-right-Center to back-bottom-Center), right?

I’m going to label a cube as previously recommended just to help learn the scheme. That’s today’s project.... shouldn’t take too long.


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## newtonbase (Dec 28, 2017)

SpartanSailor said:


> The lettering scheme doesn’t matter between M2 and OP, right? Just the edge buffer moves (from top-right-Center to back-bottom-Center), right?
> 
> I’m going to label a cube as previously recommended just to help learn the scheme. That’s today’s project.... shouldn’t take too long.


The letters are exactly the same for all methods. The M2 buffer is DF (bottom-front-center).


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## SpartanSailor (Dec 28, 2017)

DF means “Down Front” , right? Not the letter-scheme location.... just want to be sure so I don’t learn everything wrong. Lol

First step...


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## newtonbase (Dec 28, 2017)

SpartanSailor said:


> DF means “Down Front” , right? Not the letter-scheme location.... just want to be sure so I don’t learn everything wrong. Lol
> 
> First step...


Yes, down front. You'll need to get used to that notation. It's just U, D, L, R, F and B - Up, Down, Left, Right, Front and Back.


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## SpartanSailor (Dec 28, 2017)

I know that notation well... 

Do you have to do the edges before the corners? Or can you them in either order? 

I suspect edges first is necessary to apply the parity alg if odd number of targets. However, if even number of targets, probably doesn’t matter?


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## openseas (Dec 28, 2017)

SpartanSailor said:


> I know that notation well...
> 
> Do you have to do the edges before the corners? Or can you them in either order?
> 
> I suspect edges first is necessary to apply the parity alg if odd number of targets. However, if even number of targets, probably doesn’t matter?



This is one of the hottest topic in BLD - edge first vs corner first.
Many BLDers do memo corner - edge, then execute edge - corner. Images for corners, audio for edges (memory method). When you trace / memo, better memo'ing corner first since you can tell whether it will be odd or even numbers. (My) Logic is that tracing corner is easier, faster and requires less number of targets (between 6 ~ 8, mostly) so you're likely to get it right and fast. 

For parity, I usually do at the end of the whole solve - just not to mess up the parity execution.


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## Nervous Nico (Dec 28, 2017)

@newtonbase , hope you got home alright and you are feeling better.


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## Nervous Nico (Dec 28, 2017)

@SpartanSailor, think I am going to join you in learning to blind slove as it combines two things I love: speedsolving and memory techniques. I have reached my target of going sub 20 average on the 3x3 (though I have not done it in in comp) as yet. Gonna go check out Jperm's video. Let me know how you get on.


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## Nervous Nico (Dec 28, 2017)

@Shaky Hands I saw that Guildford is in March this year which seems quite early. How many PBs are you going to get there this year? I am in the process of learning 4x4 went from 6 minutes to 2.30 average and remembered you did a 1.56 minutes single on the 5x5 so am some way off. I can't comprehend how it's even possible. Do you use Yau? My next step is to learn Yau for the 4x4 but I hear it is best to average 2 minutes on the reduction method first.


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## SpartanSailor (Dec 28, 2017)

openseas said:


> For parity, I usually do at the end of the whole solve - just not to mess up the parity execution.



You can do edges, then corners and finish with parity? 

I thought you had to do edges, parity, corners...

I thought the parity replaced the corners to how you had them during inspection and so had to do it PRIO


Nervous Nico said:


> @SpartanSailor, think I am going to join you in learning to blind slove as it combines two things I love: speedsolving and memory techniques. I have reached my target of going sub 20 average on the 3x3 (though I have not done it in in comp) as yet. Gonna go check out Jperm's video. Let me know how you get on.



Spent some time trying to just get edge targets while using the blind methods, but with looking. 1 target at a time. Just trying to get smooth the setups and undo setups. That’s not very intuitive yet. But I’m thinking about the target so I can associate the moves with a particular target. 

I don’t want to make everything an alg, but it seems like I could use the same set up sequence anytime I go to a particular target... but, today was the first day and I made more mistakes than anything—ha!


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## Nervous Nico (Dec 28, 2017)

Nice to see @Selkie on cubeskills.com. Great average on your critiqued solves! Is your main a GTS 2M cubible with stronger magnets? I really like that cube but it keeps getting too slow/gummy. Santa was generous cubes-wise this Christmas though I have not found a better one. I have been disappointed by the valk power M, the turning, the very bright -cyclone boys-like colours on the stickerless version... I like the feel and speed of the Gan RSC (I know!) but it needs magnets! The Gan SM is a great cube too, bar the poor quality stickers and some lock ups. I still feel the GTS 2M is more forgiving with my horrible turning style. How long did it take you to go from sub 20 to sub 15?

Anyway, I am rambling on

Happy New Year to you all 

Hoping to see some of you old cubers at the next UK comp in 2018.

PS: thanks @Logiqx for updating the list of the over 40. It's such a cool place to check and it gives us something to strive for (dreaming of overtaking Lars Petrus next)


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## Nervous Nico (Dec 28, 2017)

SpartanSailor said:


> Spent some time trying to just get edge targets while using the blind methods, but with looking. 1 target at a time. Just trying to get smooth the setups and undo setups. That’s not very intuitive yet. But I’m thinking about the target so I can associate the moves with a particular target.
> 
> I don’t want to make everything an alg, but it seems like I could use the same set up sequence anytime I go to a particular target... but, today was the first day and I made more mistakes than anything—ha!



Sounds very methodical. Might try that first. You probably made mistakes due to the festive season fatigue. Today I spent hours solving for "fun" and I hardly got any sub 20. Should know when to call it a day really - it's an addiction. BTW which method did you go for in the end? found this interesting article for beginners like me. http://teachkidsengineering.com/solve-rubiks-cube-blindfolded/. They use M2 for edges OP for corners and speffz for letter changes. Still all greek to me...


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## SpartanSailor (Dec 29, 2017)

Nervous Nico said:


> Sounds very methodical. Might try that first. You probably made mistakes due to the festive season fatigue. Today I spent hours solving for "fun" and I hardly got any sub 20. Should know when to call it a day really - it's an addiction. BTW which method did you go for in the end? found this interesting article for beginners like me. http://teachkidsengineering.com/solve-rubiks-cube-blindfolded/. They use M2 for edges OP for corners and speffz for letter changes. Still all greek to me...



The lettering is the same, so, for now I’m going with OP edges as well. Just to learn the target locations... using T-perm (my favourite PLL, btw) means I don’t have to thing about that alg while trying to learn the target locations. 

I realise that’s not efficient since I’ll have to learn M2 anyway, but that has 4 special cases.... given my time constraints, I choose to be “methodical”, as you say. I’m not trying to get to super fast and efficient blind solving (not now anyway). I’d prefer rock solid understanding first. So... 

Long answer to say, “OP edges and corners”


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## newtonbase (Dec 29, 2017)

Nervous Nico said:


> @newtonbase , hope you got home alright and you are feeling better.


Yes, I'm home and well but set for a dry New Year. Thanks 
@SpartanSailor Good luck with OP. It's the simplest method and you have chosen it for the right reasons.


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## SpartanSailor (Dec 29, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> Yes, I'm home and well but set for a dry New Year. Thanks
> @SpartanSailor Good luck with OP. It's the simplest method and you have chosen it for the right reasons.



Glad you’re home. Rest up... I’ll have lots of questions for you!!


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## newtonbase (Dec 29, 2017)

Today is the 4th anniversary of my first solve. Must find a way to celebrate.


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## mark49152 (Dec 29, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> Today is the 4th anniversary of my first solve. Must find a way to celebrate.


A full 4BLD attempt?


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## newtonbase (Dec 29, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> A full 4BLD attempt?


Good idea. I haven't even looked at it since WSM but the family are out this afternoon so I may be able to find a bit of time. The recent MBLD practice should help.

Have you done any more 20 cube attempts over Christmas? You need to keep up with the UK kids!


----------



## SpartanSailor (Dec 29, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> Have you done any more 20 cube attempts over Christmas? You need to keep up with the UK kids!


20 cubes! Wow.

And here I was excited just hitting a few edge targets last night! LOL


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## mark49152 (Dec 29, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> Have you done any more 20 cube attempts over Christmas? You need to keep up with the UK kids!


No. Last attempt I did was at the start of this month. 17/20 in 1:02. Memo was way faster than usual even with an extra review and I was quite pleased despite 3 mistakes. I didn't get round to posting video. I haven't practised any multi since then. The UK kids get to practise half the day while their parents cook and clean up for them and I can't compete with that


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## newtonbase (Dec 29, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> The UK kids get to practise half the day while their parents cook and clean up for them and I can't compete with that


Yes, it's frustrating at times wanting to practice but having to deal with real life.
I delayed my recuperative nap and had a go at 4BLD. To me it looks like a centre error has caused the rest to go awry. Edge tracing was appalling and I started without any plan as to what locations to use and I also began to memo centres first for some reason. Also forgot my U2 alg for the D face and had to make up too many comms on the fly. Overall I'm happy and am interested in 4BLD again. Might retry the scramble later if I still have the memo.


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## Alex B71 (Dec 29, 2017)

Hey, guys. Just got this whilst buying tickets to Cardiff, no one in my family or friend group drinks wine so i'll just leave this here for one of you guys... Maybe one of your wives or girlfriends might appreciate it. (£60 off a £100 purchase)


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## mafergut (Dec 29, 2017)

Hi guys! Has it been a long time since I last visited? Or have you all just been very productive lately? Because I had a heck of a lot of unread pages in the thread. Welcome to the new guys. This thread is, as you said, a good or bad influence, it all depends 

I keep devoting more time lately to making videos than practising speedsolving. I just uploaded a 45min-long video of my cube collection that I assume you don't need to know much Spanish to watch, in case you have some spare time. It looks like I have more than 130 cubes in total. Should I worry?

Happy cubing and Happy New Year to you all!


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## muchacho (Dec 29, 2017)

I have not reached my goal of being sub-25 at OH (and neither other cubing goal) before year ends, but I'm still trying to improve at least a bit more.

Ao5 PB: 22.059 (was 22.489 from 5 weeks ago)
Mo100 PB: 27.500 (was 28.047 from 5 weeks ago)



Spoiler: Ao5



9699 29-dic-2017 15:52:02 00:21.581 U F2 D R2 D2 U' F2 R2 D' B2 R2 B R L2 B' D' B' R B2 L U2
9698 29-dic-2017 15:51:13 00:29.261 F2 D2 U L2 D L2 F2 D2 L2 F2 U' R F' L' D2 F' R' D F D'
9697 29-dic-2017 15:50:26 00:19.453 R2 L2 U R2 U L2 F2 U' B2 F2 D2 L B' R2 U2 F2 D R' F' D2 U
9696 29-dic-2017 15:49:38 00:18.462 L2 D L2 U' R2 U R2 D R2 L2 D R L2 D R2 L U B' U L U'
9695 29-dic-2017 15:48:50 00:25.144 R2 D F2 R2 D' L2 D B2 F2 D' B D2 F U' B2 D F' U L' U L2 D2





Spoiler: Mo100



9732 29-dic-2017 16:20:13 00:25.622 F2 U' B2 L2 D' L2 D' R2 U R2 D' B' F L B L D2 R' L' U R2
9731 29-dic-2017 16:19:27 00:28.198 U R2 F2 U' B2 R2 U' B2 D2 B2 U2 F' D2 L' U L2 U F R L' D' U'
9730 29-dic-2017 16:18:38 00:27.591 U L2 D' B2 U' R2 U2 B2 F2 L2 D F U' F' U2 B' R' D2 L D' U2
9729 29-dic-2017 16:17:37 00:34.294 R2 U2 R2 U2 L2 D R2 L2 D U' B' L D R' B' L D' U2 B' F' U
9728 29-dic-2017 16:16:52 00:25.141 B2 U L2 B2 R2 D' F2 U R2 D2 U2 B' R U2 R U' B2 D2 B D2 L' U'
9727 29-dic-2017 16:15:20 00:33.686 D L2 B2 R2 U2 F2 L2 U L2 U2 B2 R U' F U R2 B' U2 B' R2 L U'
9726 29-dic-2017 16:14:33 00:27.101 B2 F2 R2 U' R2 U F2 U' F2 L2 U R' U B L' D R' B2 F D2 L2 B'
9725 29-dic-2017 16:13:47 00:26.413 B2 U2 L2 F2 D B2 D R2 L2 F2 U R' D' U R2 U' B2 F' U F R L'
9724 29-dic-2017 16:12:51 00:28.982 U F2 U' R2 B2 L2 U' F2 U F2 R2 B D2 B' R' D' F' L D R2 L' U2
9723 29-dic-2017 16:12:04 00:28.270 L2 B2 U F2 D F2 D' L2 U' L2 U' R' B' R' B2 L' D2 R F R' U
9722 29-dic-2017 16:11:11 00:33.830 U F2 D2 U L2 F2 R2 B2 D F2 U' R F L F U' B2 L2 F2 L' F
9721 29-dic-2017 16:10:21 00:28.830 F2 D' U' R2 D' F2 D L2 B2 R2 F2 L B2 D' B' R B' L F' U' F'
9720 29-dic-2017 16:09:32 00:27.758 R2 U' B2 F2 U2 L2 U' L2 D' L2 U' L' R2 D' B' F L' D' R2 B2 L' U'
9719 29-dic-2017 16:08:43 00:28.822 B2 D R2 D2 R2 F2 D2 L2 D' B2 U L B R2 B2 R B2 F2 U F2 L' U'
9718 29-dic-2017 16:07:57 00:26.559 U F2 R2 F2 R2 F2 D' F2 D2 U' F' R L2 D2 F' R2 U' L U2 L U
9717 29-dic-2017 16:07:15 00:22.454 L2 D' B2 D2 B2 U R2 U' F2 R2 F' R U' B U L B' D2 B2 U'
9716 29-dic-2017 16:06:24 00:28.414 D2 B2 U B2 F2 U' L2 F2 L2 B2 U2 F R B D B2 R2 D U' F L
9715 29-dic-2017 16:05:32 00:29.487 F2 D2 B2 L2 D2 F2 D' L2 B2 F2 D' B' R B2 L2 B' U2 L' U B F
9714 29-dic-2017 16:04:43 00:23.319 U2 L2 F2 D F2 R2 U' L2 D' U' B2 R' B D' L U2 F' L B2 U2 L
9713 29-dic-2017 16:04:04 00:24.230 U2 F2 L2 U' F2 D L2 D' U' F2 U2 B' R2 F2 R' D' L' U F' L U L
9712 29-dic-2017 16:03:13 00:31.838 F2 D F2 U B2 R2 D' F2 D' R2 F2 L D' U' F D2 U L2 F2 R' F' U
9711 29-dic-2017 16:02:33 00:20.766 U B2 U' B2 D' L2 D' F2 D B2 D2 F R U2 B2 L' F2 D' U F' L' D2
9710 29-dic-2017 16:01:47 00:24.199 R2 U B2 U' L2 D B2 R2 U2 F2 R2 F L U F2 U R U' L' F' U'
9709 29-dic-2017 16:01:00 00:22.806 D R2 D' B2 F2 D2 B2 R2 U L2 D B' D R2 L' B2 D' L U2 R F'
9708 29-dic-2017 16:00:16 00:26.463 R2 L2 D L2 U' L2 F2 L2 U F2 D B R2 B D' B' L' U F2 R' L' B
9707 29-dic-2017 15:59:29 00:28.767 D' F2 D2 B2 R2 L2 D2 L2 D' R2 D F' L' B' R B' R' U2 F' R' L2
9706 29-dic-2017 15:58:37 00:31.159 F2 U2 B2 D2 F2 L2 U' F2 U2 L2 U F' D2 B D' L2 U2 L' F' R' L
9705 29-dic-2017 15:57:48 00:29.766 F2 U F2 D' R2 U B2 U R2 D R2 B' R U2 F2 U' F' D B2 L B' D'
9704 29-dic-2017 15:56:21 00:26.007 B2 F2 D2 U' L2 D F2 R2 F2 D B' L' U' F2 U' B' L' B U R'
9703 29-dic-2017 15:55:34 00:28.318 R2 B2 U R2 D' R2 U2 B2 L2 D' F R2 L U L D F L' B' L
9702 29-dic-2017 15:54:43 00:25.943 D2 R2 F2 R2 U L2 U F2 U' B2 D F U2 R' L2 B' L' B F' R D U
9701 29-dic-2017 15:53:51 00:30.606 U' R2 B2 U2 B2 F2 D' L2 U' R2 U' F D2 F R' F D' R2 D' L2 F2 D'
9700 29-dic-2017 15:53:03 00:26.702 L2 B2 R2 D L2 D F2 L2 D F2 R2 B R B' F' U2 L2 U' F' R' D' U2
9699 29-dic-2017 15:52:02 00:21.581 U F2 D R2 D2 U' F2 R2 D' B2 R2 B R L2 B' D' B' R B2 L U2
9698 29-dic-2017 15:51:13 00:29.261 F2 D2 U L2 D L2 F2 D2 L2 F2 U' R F' L' D2 F' R' D F D'
9697 29-dic-2017 15:50:26 00:19.453 R2 L2 U R2 U L2 F2 U' B2 F2 D2 L B' R2 U2 F2 D R' F' D2 U
9696 29-dic-2017 15:49:38 00:18.462 L2 D L2 U' R2 U R2 D R2 L2 D R L2 D R2 L U B' U L U'
9695 29-dic-2017 15:48:50 00:25.144 R2 D F2 R2 D' L2 D B2 F2 D' B D2 F U' B2 D F' U L' U L2 D2
9694 29-dic-2017 15:48:00 00:30.574 U' B2 U L2 D F2 R2 L2 U F2 D R' F2 U2 R' B' R' F' L2 F' D
9693 29-dic-2017 15:47:07 00:27.823 R2 L2 U' L2 D R2 D L2 U F2 L2 F L' B U' F' R B U2 L B2 D'
9692 29-dic-2017 15:46:21 00:26.983 D' R2 D R2 D2 F2 U' B2 R2 F2 U' B U F' R U2 R F' L' D
9691 29-dic-2017 15:45:38 00:25.406 U R2 B2 U' L2 D' F2 U2 L2 U2 L U2 B' D2 B2 L D R L'
9690 29-dic-2017 15:44:49 00:30.815 R2 U B2 F2 U' B2 D B2 U2 F2 U2 F' R2 B U2 R U2 L' D' R L'
9689 29-dic-2017 15:44:00 00:29.597 F2 L2 D B2 D' B2 D F2 U' B2 U' L F' R' B2 U L2 B' L' B2 R' D2
9688 29-dic-2017 15:43:12 00:20.288 L2 U B2 L2 B2 R2 D2 U L2 U R2 B' L F2 D' R2 L F' R' U R2 D
9687 29-dic-2017 15:42:02 00:22.614 F2 D2 F2 U2 F2 L2 B2 F2 D' B2 U2 B R B2 F L2 U R' F' R' D'
9686 29-dic-2017 15:41:07 00:31.990 U2 L2 U2 R2 B2 U' F2 U2 F2 L2 D' L F' R' B2 D2 B U2 L F' D
9685 29-dic-2017 15:40:24 00:22.511 D' U' F2 U' R2 L2 D' R2 B2 R2 D R' U R2 D R' F R' U2 R2 B'
9684 29-dic-2017 15:39:33 00:35.661 D F2 U F2 R2 L2 D' F2 L2 U2 R2 B' L2 U' R D' L' U2 R U' F
9683 29-dic-2017 15:38:48 00:23.975 L2 F2 U R2 U2 L2 B2 L2 B2 L2 U B' U R L' F' D2 F2 L B' D2 U2
9682 29-dic-2017 15:37:57 00:24.943 B2 U L2 F2 L2 U2 R2 F2 D B2 R L' D' B F' L' D2 F D2 R
9681 29-dic-2017 15:37:09 00:27.278 B2 L2 B2 D F2 D2 L2 B2 D B2 L2 F' R D B L' F' L2 D2 R2 U'
9680 29-dic-2017 15:36:20 00:24.606 L2 U2 B2 L2 D' R2 U2 B2 D' F2 D' L' F' R' D' U R B' L B2 D' L2
9679 29-dic-2017 15:35:26 00:28.750 F2 U B2 L2 D L2 B2 L2 D' B2 U R' D2 B' R' F D2 B' U' R2 L U'
9678 29-dic-2017 15:34:39 00:26.174 R2 B2 D2 F2 U R2 F2 L2 D2 B2 U F' R' L B R2 F2 R2 L F D2 U'
9677 29-dic-2017 15:33:59 00:21.087 D' B2 U B2 R2 D' L2 U R2 U2 R2 B' D' R2 D2 R F2 R2 D' F2 R
9676 29-dic-2017 15:33:14 00:23.215 L2 B2 L2 U B2 U2 L2 U' R2 D' F2 L F L2 U' R2 F L' D2 B F U2
9675 29-dic-2017 15:32:19 00:31.190 D2 B2 L2 D' B2 D F2 R2 D F2 D F D L2 F2 D' B2 R' F2 L2 U2
9674 29-dic-2017 15:31:25 00:27.574 R2 D' B2 R2 D' B2 F2 D2 R2 D U' L' U L2 U' L F D' L' D2 U'
9673 29-dic-2017 15:30:41 00:27.062 L2 U2 L2 B2 R2 U' L2 D R2 U' B' R U' F' D B U2 R F2 U L2
9672 29-dic-2017 15:29:55 00:26.463 L2 D2 B2 D' L2 B2 R2 U2 B2 D L2 F' L B' D F' D2 U2 L2 D' L'
9671 29-dic-2017 15:28:57 00:33.423 U B2 F2 D' L2 D F2 D B2 D2 B2 R D U2 F L' B R' F' R' D2 U2
9670 29-dic-2017 15:28:11 00:26.319 U2 L2 U B2 U' R2 U R2 B2 R' F2 L' F' U' L2 D B2 R
9669 29-dic-2017 15:27:21 00:27.229 D B2 D2 L2 F2 U' B2 F2 D' L2 F2 R F U2 L F U2 L2 U F' L' D2
9668 29-dic-2017 15:26:34 00:25.685 F2 D2 B2 L2 U B2 F2 U' B2 U R U2 B' F' U2 L D F2 U' B' L U2
9667 29-dic-2017 15:25:47 00:27.558 D2 B2 U R2 D' U' L2 D' L2 B' D' U2 R2 U2 B2 L' F' U F2 U2
9666 29-dic-2017 15:24:50 00:36.558 D2 B2 U R2 B2 U' L2 B2 D U2 R D' F R L B2 U B R' B2 D2
9665 29-dic-2017 15:24:00 00:32.221 D' U' R2 U L2 F2 D' L2 F2 R2 F' B2 D F' R' F' L2 D2 F
9664 29-dic-2017 15:23:09 00:27.391 U R2 B2 D L2 U B2 R2 D L2 D' L R2 B U L F' D B2 U' B' U2
9663 29-dic-2017 15:22:19 00:29.031 B2 R2 D' F2 U2 B2 U' R2 D' F2 U' F U2 R U' B F' L F2 U L U2
9662 29-dic-2017 10:57:02 00:41.550 U R2 D' B2 R2 U' B2 U B2 U2 L2 B' F2 U' B2 R2 F2 L2 U R' D U2
9661 29-dic-2017 10:56:05 00:31.271 R2 U' R2 B2 U B2 F2 U' F2 U2 B2 R D2 U2 F2 R' U' F R' D2 F2 D
9660 29-dic-2017 10:55:14 00:33.238 L2 U R2 F2 D F2 D2 F2 R2 L2 U R U' F D2 U' B' R U2 L' U2
9659 27-dic-2017 15:41:02 00:24.333 D' L2 U' B2 D' F2 R2 D B2 L2 U' R' D R2 B2 L' U2 F D2 U B U'
9658 27-dic-2017 15:40:16 00:22.631 F2 L2 F2 D2 L2 D2 U' L2 B2 U2 B' L' D R2 F L' D2 B' R' D F D2
9657 27-dic-2017 15:39:23 00:28.654 R2 D2 L2 D' F2 L2 U2 R2 L2 D' B2 R B2 L2 U' R D F L' B R' D'
9656 27-dic-2017 15:38:35 00:29.350 U F2 L2 D B2 D2 L2 B2 U' F2 D' F D' F' L D' F' U2 B' U R2 L
9655 27-dic-2017 15:37:49 00:22.910 B2 D B2 L2 D' B2 D R2 U L2 U' L' D U2 F' D' L B' D U'
9654 27-dic-2017 15:36:58 00:28.318 D' B2 U' L2 B2 R2 U B2 D2 L2 U' F R' D B' D U B' F2 L' B2 U'
9653 27-dic-2017 15:36:07 00:29.550 U B2 U' B2 U R2 L2 F2 L2 U B2 L' B2 L2 B' U B2 L' D2 B D
9652 27-dic-2017 15:35:15 00:33.351 U F2 L2 B2 U' F2 D2 F2 U' R2 U' B U2 L D2 R' B' U B F D2
9651 27-dic-2017 15:34:22 00:35.238 D B2 R2 D B2 U R2 D' R2 F2 U L' B2 R2 B D2 F' R2 U' R' L B'
9650 27-dic-2017 15:33:33 00:22.222 F2 R2 D' U' R2 L2 F2 R2 D L2 D F' R B' L U' F2 R B R U L
9649 27-dic-2017 15:32:43 00:28.758 U2 B2 U' B2 U R2 D B2 L2 U2 L2 F U B' L B L2 U L U L'
9648 27-dic-2017 15:31:54 00:25.727 U2 B2 F2 U L2 D F2 D' L2 D L2 B' F' U R U F R2 L2 D' U L'
9647 27-dic-2017 15:31:03 00:31.239 L2 D' R2 B2 R2 D L2 D L2 U2 F2 L B R2 B2 D2 U' F' D2 U F U
9646 27-dic-2017 15:30:06 00:34.893 D2 F2 R2 U F2 U2 R2 U' F2 L2 U' R B2 F D2 U' F' U2 B' D L2
9645 27-dic-2017 15:28:14 00:23.800 U2 L2 D' B2 D' R2 U2 B2 R2 F2 D' F L' D U' L' B D2 R' D2 B'
9644 27-dic-2017 15:27:19 00:26.463 D B2 L2 B2 F2 D R2 D2 R2 B2 R' D L U' B2 D' F2 L B' D
9643 27-dic-2017 15:26:20 00:29.350 B2 R2 B2 R2 U R2 U2 L2 D L2 B' U' R' F' R F2 D' U' B' F2 L'
9642 27-dic-2017 15:25:35 00:23.511 R2 B2 F2 U' R2 B2 U B2 L2 B2 D' R D' L' U2 B2 F' U' L' U2 B2 U'
9641 27-dic-2017 15:24:38 00:26.310 R2 B2 U2 L2 F2 D' L2 U' F2 D U' F L' B' L' U2 F' D R2 U2 R L'
9640 27-dic-2017 15:23:51 00:24.926 D2 R2 B2 U2 L2 F2 U2 R2 D B2 U L U' B2 R D B L2 F D2 R D2
9639 27-dic-2017 15:23:00 00:27.670 D' B2 F2 U L2 U' F2 L2 U2 R2 U2 B U L' U' R F R2 D' U' L2 U'
9638 27-dic-2017 15:22:15 00:28.094 U R2 U2 F2 D' R2 D' R2 D2 F2 U2 R F L U2 B F' D B U F2
9637 27-dic-2017 15:21:28 00:22.750 B2 L2 D U2 F2 R2 D' B2 L2 B' R2 B' L U2 B' F R' D' R U2
9636 27-dic-2017 15:20:40 00:27.902 U' B2 U' L2 D' B2 R2 U' B2 F2 U' F D R' B2 L' U2 L U' F' R U'
9635 27-dic-2017 15:19:47 00:22.469 R2 D R2 U R2 B2 U R2 D R2 U2 B' R2 L D U' R B2 D2 F D U'
9634 27-dic-2017 15:19:01 00:29.669 U' L2 B2 D R2 F2 L2 D2 B2 U2 B2 R B' D' L' F' D2 R2 B2 F2 R'
9633 27-dic-2017 15:18:12 00:25.655 R2 L2 U F2 D' R2 L2 D' U2 B2 F2 L' U2 B' U F2 D L' B' U2 L' U'


----------



## muchacho (Dec 29, 2017)

mafergut said:


> Hi guys! Has it been a long time since I last visited? Or have you all just been very productive lately? Because I had a heck of a lot of unread pages in the thread. Welcome to the new guys. This thread is, as you said, a good or bad influence, it all depends
> 
> I keep devoting more time lately to making videos than practising speedsolving. I just uploaded a 45min-long video of my cube collection that I assume you don't need to know much Spanish to watch, in case you have some spare time. It looks like I have more than 130 cubes in total. Should I worry?
> 
> Happy cubing and Happy New Year to you all!


Don't worry, you'll be fine (and won't get bored ever).

I wanted to add pictures of cubes to cubealot.com, I guess now I know who to ask for help


----------



## mark49152 (Dec 29, 2017)

@newtonbase: Not a bad attempt. It is solved with a few mistakes rather than scrambled with a few correct


----------



## pglewis (Dec 29, 2017)

Nervous Nico said:


> My next step is to learn Yau for the 4x4 but I hear it is best to average 2 minutes on the reduction method first.



I often disagree with the "wait until you're sub XX" advice I see out there... the best way to get good at Yau/Hoya/Whatever IMO is to practice it rather than practicing something else. 



Nervous Nico said:


> I really like that cube [GTS2M] but it keeps getting too slow/gummy. Santa was generous cubes-wise this Christmas though I have not found a better one.



Ditto, though I'm strictly stickerless so I can't speak for the black plastic version of any recent puzzles. I think it gets worse for me this time of year as the humidity drops significantly, seems like I have to add DNM-37 daily if I'm practicing a lot (The Valk seemed even worse for me about it than the GTS2). I have a magnetized Little Magic and magnetized Valk 3 on the way to try a couple others, the Little Magic is cheap enough to be a potential candidate platform for me to magnetize a bunch for mbld. 



SpartanSailor said:


> The lettering is the same, so, for now I’m going with OP edges as well. Just to learn the target locations... using T-perm (my favourite PLL, btw) means I don’t have to thing about that alg while trying to learn the target locations.



The only requirement is to have fun and if starting out with OP edges leads to fun then you're doing it right. I will toss this out for consideration though: you're already going to be absorbing the letter scheme as you learn the mechanics and I believe most people can get the M2 mechanics down in a few days/sessions of practice... well before Speffz positions even become automatic. There are really only a couple algs for some of the targets on the M slice, the rest are intuitive setups once you've done it a few times. The fact that the buffer exchange is literally just an M2 move makes it much less tedious than T-perm once you get going. It may feel less overwhelming to refer to a cheat-sheet for all the targets, to start with. After one focused session with M2 you'll probably only need it for C/I/S/W/Q. Noah's execution vid lists everything in the description:


----------



## phreaker (Dec 29, 2017)

Nervous Nico said:


> @Shaky Hands I saw that Guildford is in March this year which seems quite early. How many PBs are you going to get there this year? I am in the process of learning 4x4 went from 6 minutes to 2.30 average and remembered you did a 1.56 minutes single on the 5x5 so am some way off. I can't comprehend how it's even possible. Do you use Yau? My next step is to learn Yau for the 4x4 but I hear it is best to average 2 minutes on the reduction method first.



I solve using Yau, or attempt to ... my 3-2-3 is still a bit off at moments. But I strongly encourage you to make the shift. The look ahead is SO much better, and you have to learn to find your cross edges... Those are things you only learn with practice, practice, practice, and reduction won't help with that. And my PB is 2:41 (with a +2, didn't finish the AUF for PLL.)


----------



## phreaker (Dec 29, 2017)

Brief comment: I like the Aosu GTS M.

I can't explain why. It doesn't cut as well as the Wuques I have. But there's a nice feel to it when solving, it is just nice, the turns end smoothly, and I haven't needed much more cutting than it has. I'll admit, I have to still set it up... but from 2:57 -> 2:41 so far.. and I know I can go faster... it is just learning 3-2-3 a bit better, I'm making mistakes. If I clean it up, I suspect I'll be in the 2:30 range... Which is really fast considering I'm not sub-50 2H . (I also don't practice 2H except on big cubes... so I have no idea how fast I really am.)


----------



## SpartanSailor (Dec 29, 2017)

pglewis said:


> I often disagree with the "wait until you're sub XX" advice I see out there... the best way to get good at Yau/Hoya/Whatever IMO is to practice it rather than practicing something else.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



To be honest... I'm already getting pretty comfortable with the target position letters... I still have to write down my targets then make a story (can't do it all in my head simultaneously yet), but I was able to do that and then with my eyes closed get all the edge targets without peaking last night (so long as the buffer piece never entered into the "story"--I still need to figure out that little bit. Sometimes it gets me, others... not so much). And yesterday was only my first day even trying to figure out what M2 and OP even meant! let alone has some success actually hitting targets. 

My goal for this long upcoming weekend is to iron out the buffer thing, and be able to generate my edge story without paper and execute the edges. If I'm successful... I'll dial that in for a bit then move onto corners. I'm not in a hurry... This is absolutely for fun. Now, in the future, fun may take the form of getting super speedy ;-) But isn't that always the case? you figure it out, then you get decent then you try to go faster? LOL


----------



## pglewis (Dec 30, 2017)

That first full blindsolve is the hardest, @SpartanSailor, and it's a fantastic feeling when you take off the blindfold and see everything is good. Still one of the most fist-pumpy moments I've ever had cubing, along with my one official one .


----------



## SpartanSailor (Dec 30, 2017)

Question: sometimes I get edges in the correct position, but incorrect orientation. Is that because I shot for the wrong target in the pair when making my memo? I’m guessing yes, but wasn’t sure. 

Also, I saw a couple videos that say, “if you have flipped edges, say on the OV edge, just do it twice.” But how am I supposed to know it’s flipped? Seems like (related to my first question) that I you get the memo right and put the correct edge face in the correct target location, you should never have a flipped edge at the end. 

Just stuff I’m figuring out through practice. I’ll get there.


----------



## openseas (Dec 30, 2017)

SpartanSailor said:


> Question: sometimes I get edges in the correct position, but incorrect orientation. Is that because I shot for the wrong target in the pair when making my memo? I’m guessing yes, but wasn’t sure.
> 
> Also, I saw a couple videos that say, “if you have flipped edges, say on the OV edge, just do it twice.” But how am I supposed to know it’s flipped? Seems like (related to my first question) that I you get the memo right and put the correct edge face in the correct target location, you should never have a flipped edge at the end.
> 
> Just stuff I’m figuring out through practice. I’ll get there.



Most common mistakes are tracing wrong = flipped. Instead of UB, you may have memo'd as BU.
The flipped edge case means that your scrambled piece is located in the right position but flipped in color. You can simply do twice - like, do UB algorithm first then followed by BU algorithm.

For edges, two algorithms are mostly useful from ELL case. 1) 2 flip adjacent & 2) 2 flip opposite. Most common flip cases you'll encounter. 1) 2 flip adjacent: y' M' U' M U2 M' U' M' U' M' U2 M U' M2, 2) 2 flip opposite: M' U M' U M' U M' U2 M' U M' U M' U M' 

Link below:
http://algdb.net/puzzle/333/ell


----------



## phreaker (Dec 30, 2017)

SpartanSailor said:


> Question: sometimes I get edges in the correct position, but incorrect orientation. Is that because I shot for the wrong target in the pair when making my memo? I’m guessing yes, but wasn’t sure.
> 
> Also, I saw a couple videos that say, “if you have flipped edges, say on the OV edge, just do it twice.” But how am I supposed to know it’s flipped? Seems like (related to my first question) that I you get the memo right and put the correct edge face in the correct target location, you should never have a flipped edge at the end.
> 
> Just stuff I’m figuring out through practice. I’ll get there.



The simple way to memo a flipped edge is as its own cycle, of two targets. While not optimal... it gets the job done.

And yes, if you get memo right, the remaining edge should not be flipped. .


----------



## Shaky Hands (Dec 30, 2017)

Nervous Nico said:


> @Shaky Hands I saw that Guildford is in March this year which seems quite early. How many PBs are you going to get there this year? I am in the process of learning 4x4 went from 6 minutes to 2.30 average and remembered you did a 1.56 minutes single on the 5x5 so am some way off. I can't comprehend how it's even possible. Do you use Yau? My next step is to learn Yau for the 4x4 but I hear it is best to average 2 minutes on the reduction method first.



Hi mate.

Yes, Guildford has moved to early in the year compared to previously. How many PB's I might get at Guildford is likely to depend on how the Wales and Manchester competitions go. I'd settle for one PB if it was just handed out, but as the World Championship ended by PB streak anyway, I'll be happy to just participate!

I use Hoya for 4x4 through to 7x7. In all cases I get better times than with reduction. I just find Hoya easier to understand and execute than Yau. I think I switched to Hoya on 4x4 before I got down to a 2m average.

Big cubes are so much more interesting to me than 3x3. Hope you enjoy practicing 4x4 and above more. Enjoy!


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## SpartanSailor (Dec 31, 2017)

I know we are all in different parts of the globe, but I’m thinkkng most of us are still in 2017 as I write this. So, have a happy and safe New Year!


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## muchacho (Dec 31, 2017)

I guess David Zemdegs is in 2018 already, the Zemdegs are always ahead of time.

edit: 27.255 OH Mo100


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## SpartanSailor (Dec 31, 2017)

Ahhh yes... all the same, then a Happy 2018 to the Zemdegs!


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## CuberJK77 (Dec 31, 2017)

So, the last minutes from this year are on it's way...... Happy New Year to you all.


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## Lid (Dec 31, 2017)

HNY old boys & girls ... I promise to be faster than ever in 2018 ..


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## h2f (Jan 1, 2018)

Happy New Year. Lots PBs.


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## mark49152 (Jan 1, 2018)

Happy New year everyone!


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## openseas (Jan 1, 2018)

Happy New year everybody!

As I suspected, first couple of attempts in the new year's morning proved that year number change doesn't make you any faster  Happy cubing!


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## SpartanSailor (Jan 1, 2018)

openseas said:


> Happy New year everybody!
> 
> As I suspected, first couple of attempts in the new year's morning proved that year number change doesn't make you any faster  Happy cubing!



On the other hand.... I woke up and set a new PB for 4x4. I’d love to be near that at my next comp on Jan 13! Lol 

Also just nailed a blind “edges only”. Did the edge memo in my head and executed correctly. Pretty excited about that.


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## Bemis (Jan 1, 2018)

Happy New Years, everyone! My 4x4 is coming along great, ended up grabbing a few 5x5s as well. Still enjoying the bigger cubes. Look ahead on F2L for 3x3 is improving greatly. It's been a weak spot for me, but it's feeling great now.

So far, this year is off to a great start! 

Here is to many more! Cheers!


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## Shaky Hands (Jan 1, 2018)

openseas said:


> Happy New year everybody!
> 
> As I suspected, first couple of attempts in the new year's morning proved that year number change doesn't make you any faster  Happy cubing!



It worked for me a year ago today... https://www.speedsolving.com/forum/threads/older-cubers-discussions.37405/page-676#post-1212369


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## Selkie (Jan 2, 2018)

Firstly may I wish my older cubing brethren a happy, healthy, prosperous and PB filled 2018!

Welcome to the thread @SpartanSailor if I have not already said welcome. I can always blame that on old age senility! 

I have been fortunate enough to have a long festive break having finished work on 19th December and not returning until tomorrow. Lots of practice time too when my wife has been studying. My main emphasis for practice has been 3x3, OH, 4x4 and 7x7 as these as the main events for me on the second day of Welsh Open at the end of the month which I will be attending only on the Sunday.

Of most note recently is 3x3. Many longer term thread attendees will know I have been stuck at sub 15.5 globally for a considerable period of time. After Weston-super-Mare Open in November I set about working on some of my worst flaws in 3x3. @Nervous Nico , you are indeed right I am on CubeSkills and must credit a lot of my recent improvement on the site and Felik's advice. The strangest thing about my improvement is a psychological one. Having plateaued at just over 15 for so long, as soon as I declared myself sub 15 globally it was almost as if a mental barrier was lifted and I think I am now globally sub 14.75. Sub 15 was a life goal in cubing but with recent improvement and potential additional improvement in many areas I really do feel I can get lower. I have therefore set a new goal of sub 13. Watch this space over the coming years... 

@Nervous Nico . The Cubicle Labs GTS2M was my main for about 6 months. I do find it gets very slow and requires being cleaned out regularly. However my wife bought me a Valk 3 Power M for Christmas which I did a large number of solves on. Not quite sure why but this has had the effect of me switching my main back to the original Valk 3M for 2H.

I have also been enjoying bigger cubes with some significant improvement. Having had my Yuxin Red 6x6 magnetised and awaiting delivery of a 7x7M, I have to say the magnets make a huge difference to my inaccurate turning on bigger cubes.

Some may recall I hate OH but with sub 15 in 2H behind me and in an attempt to improve my LH dexterity for 2H I have started OHing again. I think I am on the verge of being sub 40 though I do need to relearn some OH algs. Some of my 2H algs are so deep in muscle memory that I simply cannot recall them on OH.

Apologies for the long convoluted new year post


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## pglewis (Jan 2, 2018)

My "Cuber's Home" magnetic Little Magic (stickerless) arrived today. They're currently ~$14 from TheCubicle so I figured it's well worth trying one out. It arrived very dry and rather loose; so far I gave it a couple drops of Silk, a couple drops of DNM, and tightened it 1/8 to 1/4 turn. It was initially so loose and fast I could barely tell it even had magnets but with the quick setup it's now ready for solves and break-in. My primary interest is a cheap platform to magnetize a bunch for mbld, though I already think I'll want to go with stronger magnets for that. I definitely like 'em a lot slower and more tactile for blind right now, for confidence. 

The stock Little Magic was actually my main for about a month when it was brand new but I've since returned to my trusty GTS2Ms. Some people don't care for the frosted feeling-- I actually do-- but that mostly wore off on mine after 4-6 weeks of practice as a main, so I have to wonder how well it's going to wear internally over time vs. a premium cube. Even if that speculation turns out to be true it's hardly a complaint at the price point. My current mood for 3x3 is crisp, lightly lubed, fast cubes using a light touch and I do seem to really like these cheapies when they're fresh. 

I also have a stickerless Cosmic Valk 3M on order from SCS. The stock Valk was a main for me in the past so it's time to try one with magnets.


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## Bart Van Eynde (Jan 2, 2018)

I'm very new at 4x4. Doing it for like 3 weeks now. I'm using a yuxin blue and my best solve is 2:53 or something. But my yuxin seems to pop quite allot. Had like 4 pops today alone (and i'm not a fast turner as u can see by my PB). If i tighten the tension it becomes very sluggish. Anyone a suggestion on this? I hear a spring swap is recommended with yuxins but i do not own a thunderclap


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## Shaky Hands (Jan 2, 2018)

@Bart Van Eynde - over the course of time, your accuracy will improve and that will reduce pops. 4x4 and 6x6 cubes just aren't as stable as 3x3, 5x5 and 7x7 as they don't have a fixed centre. Beyond that, you might want to ask in the Hardware forum and see what people say over there. Good luck.


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## One Wheel (Jan 2, 2018)

Bart Van Eynde said:


> I'm very new at 4x4. Doing it for like 3 weeks now. I'm using a yuxin blue and my best solve is 2:53 or something. But my yuxin seems to pop quite allot. Had like 4 pops today alone (and i'm not a fast turner as u can see by my PB). If i tighten the tension it becomes very sluggish. Anyone a suggestion on this? I hear a spring swap is recommended with yuxins but i do not own a thunderclap


If you can afford the time or the money magnets make a huge difference, especially in even-layered and higher-order cubes.


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## newtonbase (Jan 2, 2018)

Happy New Year all. 

I've finally got around to magnetising a Clock using my own method. The pins are very nice and smooth and stick in place no problem but the turning is garbage. Not sure what the issue is. Maybe it can be fixed. Maybe I've just learned a way not to do it.


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## Bart Van Eynde (Jan 2, 2018)

One Wheel said:


> If you can afford the time or the money magnets make a huge difference, especially in even-layered and higher-order cubes.


haven't tried magnetic cubes ... but they seem to be a lot more stable indeed. We will see what i can spend


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## phreaker (Jan 3, 2018)

Bart Van Eynde said:


> I'm very new at 4x4. Doing it for like 3 weeks now. I'm using a yuxin blue and my best solve is 2:53 or something. But my yuxin seems to pop quite allot. Had like 4 pops today alone (and i'm not a fast turner as u can see by my PB). If i tighten the tension it becomes very sluggish. Anyone a suggestion on this? I hear a spring swap is recommended with yuxins but i do not own a thunderclap



I've never popped any of my 4x4s. (Wuque, Wuque M, Aosu, Aosu GTSM) You can often order the springs alone from cube stores. That's what I did for my Yuxin 6x6 (swapped in 5x5 springs).

I'd try a Wuque, in your shoes... they probably aren't that expensive. The Aosu GTS M is a divisive cube... some like it, some don't.


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## SpartanSailor (Jan 3, 2018)

Sooooo... this was my first attempt at a full (corners and edges) blind solve. Bear in mind I started Friday or Saturday.... I’m pretty sure I had my memo right, but question:

Is this the “parity”? And how would I have know? The E and Q edge stickers are flipped and the opposite corners (c-j-m) and (b-q-n) are swapped.


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## phreaker (Jan 3, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> View attachment 8783 Sooooo... this was my first attempt at a full (corners and edges) blind solve. Bear in mind I started Friday or Saturday.... I’m pretty sure I had my memo right, but question:
> 
> Is this the “parity”? And how would I have know? The E and Q edge stickers are flipped and the opposite corners (c-j-m) and (b-q-n) are swapped.



OP/OP? Not QUITE. If it was, it'd be an R perm, and your corners would be oriented.

General questions for parity:

Did you have an odd number of corner targets?

Did you have an odd number of edge targets?

If the answer to both is yes.. you have parity.

If the answer to no is both, you don't.

If the answer to both questions is different... you have a problem.


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## SpartanSailor (Jan 3, 2018)

OP/OP.... yes 

I think I’m my memo I failed to recognise the two corners. I memo’d them as “flip but remain in place” and I think I miss identified them. Meaning, I should have moved them during rather than flip them. 

I may have had a parity, but I’m not sure. I thought I had 4 corners to solve and 3 corners to flip. Is that even (4 to move) or odd (4 plus 3)? That’s the piece I’m still unclear about. 

All said, I was still pretty stoked to get that close. Lol


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## phreaker (Jan 3, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> OP/OP.... yes
> 
> I think I’m my memo I failed to recognise the two corners. I memo’d them as “flip but remain in place” and I think I miss identified them. Meaning, I should have moved them during rather than flip them.
> 
> ...



I am a rookie at blind, so I don't memorize "twists" usually. But if a corner is twisted, you can always count it as a cycle of two targets. (Target a sticker on the cubie, then target where that sticker should go, and that will twist the corner.)

But your W/R/G and W/R/B corners are in the wrong spots... so you missed part of memo is my guess, also is it me, or do you have two R/W edges? (Those colors are rough on my eyes.)


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## SpartanSailor (Jan 3, 2018)

The one on the blue face is orange... the lighting makes those difficult to distinguish on the picture. 

I’m betting I forgot part of the memo too... first attempt, shouldn’t expect to nail it ‍


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## phreaker (Jan 3, 2018)

What is your orientation? Which face is F and which is U?


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## SpartanSailor (Jan 3, 2018)

F is green. U is white. That picture was NOT my orientation. Just showed most of the errors. 

My OP edges buffer is UR Center, White-Red edge.


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## phreaker (Jan 3, 2018)

Your finger is over the White/Blue edge? If so, you didn't have parity, and forgot a cycle.


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## SpartanSailor (Jan 3, 2018)

Yep. My finger is over white-Blue. Yeah... well, I gave it a shot. 

I just realised the parity is the R-Perm I use if I do a U’ before the alg then a U2 at the end. Does it still work out if I do that between edges and corners? Can I do it at the end of everything? Or does it have to be “edges-Parity alg-corners” in that order?


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## SpartanSailor (Jan 3, 2018)

phreaker said:


> Your finger is over the White/Blue edge? If so, you didn't have parity, and forgot a cycle.


Btw... thanks. I appreciate your time and assistance. This would be SO much easier if I had anyone to actually talk to about this!


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## phreaker (Jan 3, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> Btw... thanks. I appreciate your time and assistance. This would be SO much easier if I had anyone to actually talk to about this!



R perm is the parity for OP/OP last I knew. Note, I solve with M2/OP, so my parity alg is different. M2 is pretty easy if you know OP corners. The only hard parts are the center slice which takes some practice.

Honestly, I'm just doing corners only practice tonight while I work on overhauling my memo system, . (Shifting from PAO -> 2 letters per word..)


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## SpartanSailor (Jan 3, 2018)

R-perm works hen I do the U’ to start and U2 at the end. 

I tried another and as luck would have it, there WAS a parity. So, I did it sighted to see if the parity alg worked... and it did. Now, I just gotta get that memo down!! Lol

I know OP edges is less efficient, but for now, I’m just trying to get the basics down. I’m sure it won’t be long before I look into M2. 

Thanks again, and good luck with that memo practice!


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## phreaker (Jan 3, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> R-perm works hen I do the U’ to start and U2 at the end.
> 
> I tried another and as luck would have it, there WAS a parity. So, I did it sighted to see if the parity alg worked... and it did. Now, I just gotta get that memo down!! Lol
> 
> ...



Thanks! OP edges would have been real rough for me. I only know OH PLLs , and I certainly don't know them 2H so well I can do them blindfolded . I even had to learn the truncated Y perm for OP corners... My OH Y perm is very different.

I've thought about learning OP/OP to do OH BLD at some point... but that's a ways off


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## SpartanSailor (Jan 3, 2018)

phreaker said:


> Thanks! OP edges would have been real rough for me. I only know OH PLLs , and I certainly don't know them 2H so well I can do them blindfolded . I even had to learn the truncated Y perm for OP corners... My OH Y perm is very different.
> 
> I've thought about learning OP/OP to do OH BLD at some point... but that's a ways off



OP/OP uses T-Perm, mod-y-perm and now, I realise, R-perm. So, those don’t require any thought from me... that way I can focus all my brain power (what limited I have) to the story I need for memo. And apparently, that’s still coming up short. I’ll get it. I just want it to be on film when it happens! Lol


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## openseas (Jan 3, 2018)

@SpartanSailor / Number of targets are:

- corner: 7 + No of cycle breaks - number of solved or twisted pieces
- edge: 11 + No of cycle breaks - number of solved or flipped pieces

as @phreaker wrote, you should have both even or both odd numbers. You need R-perm parity (for OP/OP) when you have both odd number of targets.

BTW, once you are familiar with memo, recommend to learn M2 for edges instead of OP. Much advanced and faster.


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## Jason Green (Jan 3, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> R-perm works hen I do the U’ to start and U2 at the end.
> 
> I tried another and as luck would have it, there WAS a parity. So, I did it sighted to see if the parity alg worked... and it did. Now, I just gotta get that memo down!! Lol
> 
> ...


Welcome @SpartanSailor, I like Chris do not think I ever said hi yet. I was also out of town for about a week and a half and just returned today. I got quite a bit of practice in over the break relative to what I have lately, I'm getting close to 1:15 average in 4x4 finally. 

It sounds like you are doing similar to what I did with starting blind. I learned op/op and spent probably about a week or two on that before going to M2. The biggest advantage for me was being able to do an entire sighted solve and watch what happens, especially when I was getting confused with cycle breaks. I had just a few successes and then switched to M2. Good luck!

Happy New Year to all as well!


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## pglewis (Jan 3, 2018)

@SpartanSailor: close one... you'll get it, won't be long. It can be good to keep track of your scramble so you can go back through later and figure out what went wrong. After learning the mechanics, I had about 2 days' worth of fails on full attempts, including several "close but no cigar", until I finally got the first one. Keep attacking it.


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## SpartanSailor (Jan 3, 2018)

pglewis said:


> @SpartanSailor: close one... you'll get it, won't be long. It can be good to keep track of your scramble so you can go back through later and figure out what went wrong. After learning the mechanics, I had about 2 days' worth of fails on full attempts, including several "close but no cigar", until I finally got the first one. Keep attacking it.



I keep the scrambles handy until I'm done. I started filming myself too (just with my phone) so I can watch the execution too. I don't write down my memo every time, though. I'm trying to keep it in my head. But, as long as the scramble is there, I can recreate my solution by looking. When I drop part of the memo, it's pretty clear as I trace through the second time. 

One thing I have noticed is that the time just gets away from me. I sat down around 7p last night to practice and next thing I knew it was 9:30p. I guess I just loose track of time during the memorizing.


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## Jason Green (Jan 4, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> I keep the scrambles handy until I'm done. I started filming myself too (just with my phone) so I can watch the execution too. I don't write down my memo every time, though. I'm trying to keep it in my head. But, as long as the scramble is there, I can recreate my solution by looking. When I drop part of the memo, it's pretty clear as I trace through the second time.
> 
> One thing I have noticed is that the time just gets away from me. I sat down around 7p last night to practice and next thing I knew it was 9:30p. I guess I just loose track of time during the memorizing.


My phone is my only camera. 

An hour and a half has always slipped by me no matter what cubing I'm practicing.

Check it out, I won!


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## mitja (Jan 4, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> OP/OP uses T-Perm, mod-y-perm and now, I realise, R-perm. So, those don’t require any thought from me... that way I can focus all my brain power (what limited I have) to the story I need for memo. And apparently, that’s still coming up short. I’ll get it. I just want it to be on film when it happens! Lol


Gentlemen, Happy New Year to all of you and enjoyable cubing in 2018.

I would also advise you to go straight for M2 edges. You will have to deal with switching M2 centers, but once you get it , everything is more logical. When I started, I tried both OP edges and M2 and after a few days, I went straight for M2. Also, I prefered the parity alg for "edges first-corners second". D' L2 D M2 D' L2 D. Yes, you need to memorize two nasty FU and BD algs. Once you get into M2 you can learn how to avoid them, thanks to Mark's advanced M2 instructions, but that later. https://www.speedsolving.com/forum/threads/advanced-m2-guide.56076/


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## newtonbase (Jan 4, 2018)

Best attempt yet at 4BLD. Only had 15 mins left of my lunch so I rushed it. There's small errors on each piece type. I think centres are an execution error. Corners must be memo error and not sure about wings.


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## mark49152 (Jan 4, 2018)

Nice job @newtonbase , you're getting closer!


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## Jason Green (Jan 4, 2018)

Since I was a winner in JR Cubers 200k subscriber drawing, I think I'll get a decent 5x5. Is Wushuang M one of the best? Ideas?


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## h2f (Jan 4, 2018)

Jason Green said:


> Since I was a winner in JR Cubers 200k subscriber drawing, I think I'll get a decent 5x5. Is Wushuang M one of the best? Ideas?



I got it. I mean I got Wushuang (notM) and I put magnets yesterday. It moves nice but I cant compare it to other cubes like Yuxin because I dont have any.


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## One Wheel (Jan 4, 2018)

Jason Green said:


> Since I was a winner in JR Cubers 200k subscriber drawing, I think I'll get a decent 5x5. Is Wushuang M one of the best? Ideas?


Ostensibly. I prefer the Yuxin. There seems to be more of a gap between the pieces or rounding on the tiles on the Yuxin, which makes it easier to accidentally move the wrong number of layers on the Wushuang.


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## openseas (Jan 4, 2018)

One Wheel said:


> Ostensibly. I prefer the Yuxin. There seems to be more of a gap between the pieces or rounding on the tiles on the Yuxin, which makes it easier to accidentally move the wrong number of layers on the Wushuang.



Me, too. Yuxin is smoother than Wushuang (based on 1:1 comparison). With magnets, much better cube, at least based on feedbacks from more than ten top cubers (like Nahm, etc...)


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## SpartanSailor (Jan 5, 2018)

Got my first successful blind solve! I was usin OP/OP and even got it in video!! Remembered my memo Long enuff to copy it down along with the scramble. 

Pretty stoked.


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## phreaker (Jan 5, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> Got my first successful blind solve! I was usin OP/OP and even got it in video!! Remembered my memo Long enuff to copy it down along with the scramble.
> 
> Pretty stoked.


Grats man!


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## SpartanSailor (Jan 5, 2018)

phreaker said:


> Grats man!


Thanks. I’m super glad I filmed it.... pretty cool to watch too.


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## SpartanSailor (Jan 5, 2018)

Jason Green said:


> Since I was a winner in JR Cubers 200k subscriber drawing, I think I'll get a decent 5x5. Is Wushuang M one of the best? Ideas?



I don’t even know who made my 5x5. Probably MoYu?? I haven’t played much with my 5,6,7 sided cubes in awhile.


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## newtonbase (Jan 5, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> Got my first successful blind solve! I was usin OP/OP and even got it in video!! Remembered my memo Long enuff to copy it down along with the scramble.
> 
> Pretty stoked.


Congratulations. My first blind success is one of my top cubing moments. What was the time?


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## h2f (Jan 5, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> Got my first successful blind solve! I was usin OP/OP and even got it in video!! Remembered my memo Long enuff to copy it down along with the scramble.
> 
> Pretty stoked.



Congrats.


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## mark49152 (Jan 5, 2018)

Congrats @SpartanSailor .


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## SpartanSailor (Jan 5, 2018)

newtonbase said:


> Congratulations. My first blind success is one of my top cubing moments. What was the time?


Just under 8 minutes. About 5 for memo and 3 to execute.


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## JohnnyReggae (Jan 5, 2018)

I've been offline for a couple weeks. Went to visit the in-laws up the coast and the kids spent a lot of time fishing, and when we got back the wife had a very long list of stuff to do around the house. Haven't had much time for cubing but I did try throw in some practice here and there.

I did manage a few things though. I finally magnetised my QiYi WuHua 6x6 and what a difference that made. Not only breaking all my PB's with it, it also made me want to practice 6x6 more. It really does make a difference using a good cube. I spent a fair time doing 4, 5, and 6 while at the in-laws, and since being home I've only done 3 and 4.

My mini Valk arrived so I put magnets in it as well. Much better with magnets, but it really is just a novelty cube. My mini 50mm cubing classroom on the other hand is IMO a legit cube that you can speed solve on and I've gotten some really good times with it.

My stickerless QiYi WuShuang also arrived and it also got magnetised. At the moment I'm using it over my magnetised Moyu Bochuang.

Then last night when I was half asleep after a long day working in the sun having had a double shot of whiskey and a rather large glass of wine I decided to do a few 3x3 solves and as luck would have it I had my 2nd ever sub-10 solve. I really did have luck on my side with a last layer skip, my 3rd so far.

9.61 L D2 L' F2 R F2 R' F2 L' U2 B2 U L2 R' D' U B' U L'

z2 // inspection
D' R B' U F2 // cross 5
U2 L U' L' // f2l1 9
R' U' R U2 R' U R // f2l2 16
U2 L' U' L U2 L' U L // f2l3 24
R U' R' //f2l4 27
U2 // auf 28 LL skip 

// = 9.61 @ 2.9tps


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## xyzzy (Jan 5, 2018)

JohnnyReggae said:


> Then last night when I was half asleep after a long day working in the sun having had a double shot of whiskey and a rather large glass of wine I decided to do a few 3x3 solves and as luck would have it I had my 2nd ever sub-10 solve. I really did have luck on my side with a last layer skip, my 3rd so far.
> 
> 9.61 L D2 L' F2 R F2 R' F2 L' U2 B2 U L2 R' D' U B' U L'
> 
> ...


You could totally pass this off as a ZZ solve and no one would know…


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## pglewis (Jan 5, 2018)

Congrats @SpartanSailor, it's definitely a great feeling. Maybe I can vicariously use your victory to nudge me back into practicing; I still haven't done a full blind solve since my comp in Sept. 

For me, 3x3 spamming with an OLL focus continues with the timer mostly off. I can confidently say I've completely ditched my 2-look OLL habits at this point. Recognition continues to slowly but steadily improve which should lead to a less chaotic time distribution. The Ls, small lightning, and awkwards continue to fight me but they'll get there. 

An odd thing of note: I was doing a bunch of mindless solves while watching Netflix last night and on THREE different solves I unconsciously started on yellow cross. I'm reasonably dual-neutral, it's not completely weird to do a few on yellow here and there, but only if I frown after checking white first.


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## pglewis (Jan 5, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> Just under 8 minutes. About 5 for memo and 3 to execute.



Also, faster than my official blind solve... though in my defense I had to track down a memo error that led to coming up with odd edges and even corners.


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## SpartanSailor (Jan 6, 2018)

pglewis said:


> Also, faster than my official blind solve... though in my defense I had to track down a memo error that led to coming up with odd edges and even corners.



I had even edges/corners and came up with a slick memo pretty easily. I’m not sure I could do it with the pressure of a comp, but I hope to find out this year sometime.


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## SpartanSailor (Jan 6, 2018)

pglewis said:


> Congrats @SpartanSailor, it's definitely a great feeling. Maybe I can vicariously use your victory to nudge me back into practicing; I still haven't done a full blind solve since my comp in Sept.
> 
> For me, 3x3 spamming with an OLL focus continues with the timer mostly off. I can confidently say I've completely ditched my 2-look OLL habits at this point. Recognition continues to slowly but steadily improve which should lead to a less chaotic time distribution. The Ls, small lightning, and awkwards continue to fight me but they'll get there.
> 
> An odd thing of note: I was doing a bunch of mindless solves while watching Netflix last night and on THREE different solves I unconsciously started on yellow cross. I'm reasonably dual-neutral, it's not completely weird to do a few on yellow here and there, but only if I frown after checking white first.



I used to be better at yellow, but have sort of trended to white only most of the time. I’ve also been stuck at the high 20s forever. I may need to figure out different or more specific/focused ways to practice. 

Definitely good to be flexible with cross selection... I see good cross solutions on non-white a decent amount of the time, but would struggle with F2L recognition if using non-white/yellow. But when I do yellow, my brain just pairs the edges with the white corner piece anyway... so.... I’ll never be so fast that it really matters for me.


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## pglewis (Jan 6, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> I had even edges/corners and came up with a slick memo pretty easily. I’m not sure I could do it with the pressure of a comp, but I hope to find out this year sometime.



It helped a lot that I had been to a couple comps before even tackling blind, I was reasonably well-prepped and it still took everything I had to keep my focus and fight the adrenaline. 

The biggest task at this point for both you and I for a long time is amassing an image pair list for memo. Sometimes I can conjure good images on the fly but sometimes it takes a while and there are well over 500 valid combinations to cover. If I had ready-to-go images for every letter pair that comes up then I don't have to pause and think between every pair and memo goes oh so fast. That doesn't happen overnight so I think it's good to get a jump on it. 

And then of course there's badgering you about M2 . I'll wager you'd have it down in two days and besides the other benefits already given, as soon as you're comfortable with basic M2 you can start picking up improved techniques with it, piecemeal. When I started M2 I hated I/S targets; with just one neat advanced M2 trick that solves 2 edges at the same time I seek them out when breaking cycles now.


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## JohnnyReggae (Jan 6, 2018)

xyzzy said:


> You could totally pass this off as a ZZ solve and no one would know…


Now that you say that and I ran through it again it could totally be a ZZ solve


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## newtonbase (Jan 6, 2018)

I've finally registered for Manchester 2018 and rather foolishly put down for 5BLD. What's the best resource for learning it please?


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## mark49152 (Jan 6, 2018)

newtonbase said:


> I've finally registered for Manchester 2018 and rather foolishly put down for 5BLD. What's the best resource for learning it please?


Good man 

I learned from Corey Sakowski's tutorial. The only new thing is U2 for T centres, plus a minor complication on midge parity. The rest you know from 4BLD.


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## newtonbase (Jan 6, 2018)

mark49152 said:


> Good man
> 
> I learned from Corey Sakowski's tutorial. The only new thing is U2 for T centres, plus a minor complication on midge parity. The rest you know from 4BLD.


I've just been chatting to a couple of people on the BLD Support Facebook group and it's easier than I thought. I like the suggestion of using M2 for plus centres but I'm not sure about the parity fix for it.


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## mark49152 (Jan 6, 2018)

IMHO it's easier to use U2 as it's so similar to what you'll be doing for the X centres. For T centres U2 is even easier as there are no tricky algs for the D face targets.


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## newtonbase (Jan 6, 2018)

mark49152 said:


> IMHO it's easier to use U2 as it's so similar to what you'll be doing for the X centres. For T centres U2 is even easier as there are no tricky algs for the D face targets.


How would you do the U face targets? Do you just do a l or r setup?


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## mark49152 (Jan 6, 2018)

newtonbase said:


> How would you do the U face targets? Do you just do a l or r setup?


I use the same trick as M2. Something like U2 setup U setup' U. For X centres that doesn't work if adjacent to a D target so I use a comm with l slice interchange in that case.


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## newtonbase (Jan 6, 2018)

mark49152 said:


> I use the same trick as M2. Something like U2 setup U setup' U. For X centres that doesn't work if adjacent to a D target so I use a comm with l slice interchange in that case.


Thanks. I'll add that to my notes.


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## openseas (Jan 7, 2018)

@newtonbase / if you solve all centers, for midges parity, normal 3BLD M2 parity alg takes care of the thing. Agreed with @mark49152 , T center is easier than x center. For th adjacemt x center, I float the buffer (simply U or U') instead of comm.


Btw, 2018 first comp. finally, first sub 2 BLD. 1st round 1:47, final 1:39. Both of them came in the last attempt: went safer but success.


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## mark49152 (Jan 7, 2018)

Thinking about M2 for T centres, how do you handle the other 6 targets in the M slice? Do the usual M2 algs work?


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## openseas (Jan 7, 2018)

mark49152 said:


> Thinking about M2 for T centres, how do you handle the other 6 targets in the M slice? Do the usual M2 algs work?



Yes, 3BLD M2 alg works. No center treatment needed.


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## h2f (Jan 7, 2018)

openseas said:


> Btw, 2018 first comp. finally, first sub 2 BLD. 1st round 1:47, final 1:39. Both of them came in the last attempt: went safer but success.



Congrats. Good time.


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## mark49152 (Jan 7, 2018)

openseas said:


> Yes, 3BLD M2 alg works. No center treatment needed.


I don't have a 5x5 with me but I can't get my head around that. You're saying that to solve the UF centre I would do U2 M' U2 M'...? Regardless of what that does to the T centres, doesn't it mess with the midges?

Edit: Maybe it should be u2 M' u2 M' with slices. I should find a 5x5 and try it. But how would you solve the FD centre since that has no equivalent in M2? Anyway, it seems inevitably more complex than U2 since you have to deal with 6 special targets on the M slice rather than 2 on the U layer.


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## newtonbase (Jan 7, 2018)

mark49152 said:


> I don't have a 5x5 with me but I can't get my head around that. You're saying that to solve the UF centre I would do U2 M' U2 M'...? Regardless of what that does to the T centres, doesn't it mess with the midges?
> 
> Edit: Maybe it should be u2 M' u2 M' with slices. I should find a 5x5 and try it. But how would you solve the FD centre since that has no equivalent in M2? Anyway, it seems inevitably more complex than U2 since you have to deal with 6 special targets on the M slice rather than 2 on the U layer.


How do you deal with D layer T centres? I've messed up my wings trying them?


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## mark49152 (Jan 7, 2018)

newtonbase said:


> How do you deal with D layer T centres? I've messed up my wings trying them?


With U2? If your buffer is UR, do y and use M u2 M' to setup X to the helper position UL.

I did find a 5x5 and cannot figure out how to solve the Uf and Db targets with M2 algs. I didn't even try Fd. Personally I can't see how M2 could be recommended as easier than U2 for T centres.


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## newtonbase (Jan 7, 2018)

mark49152 said:


> With U2? If your buffer is UR, do y and use M u2 M' to setup X to the helper position UL.


I was over complicating it. Thanks. I've yet to decide on a buffer.


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## openseas (Jan 7, 2018)

newtonbase said:


> I was over complicating it. Thanks. I've yet to decide on a buffer.



@mark49152 Just to clear up, I was talking about M2 parity algorithm not M2 alg in general.
@newtonbase below tables, summarized algs needed for 4 & 5 BLD when you use U2, r2, m2, OP method.
My buffers are, Ulb, Uls, DF, UBL

For D layer, I use both x & t center same alg except d2 for X-center, e2 for T-center.

For OP, you only need 1, just listed 4 specific, 5 specific, one that can be used for both 4 & 5.


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## SpartanSailor (Jan 7, 2018)

Gents... 

Incidentally, do we have any women in this old “guys” group?

Anyway... when a comp says “best of 3 with 20:00 limit” does that mean 20 mins total time to make three attempts?


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## openseas (Jan 8, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> Gents...
> 
> Incidentally, do we have any women in this old “guys” group?
> 
> Anyway... when a comp says “best of 3 with 20:00 limit” does that mean 20 mins total time to make three attempts?



Yes, all 3 events are combined time limit. So, even with DNF, judges need to write the time to calculate the accumulated times.


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## newtonbase (Jan 8, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> Incidentally, do we have any women in this old “guys” group?


No regulars currently.


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## Shaky Hands (Jan 8, 2018)

I learned M2 3BLD over this past weekend. I haven't fully learned the S and I swaps yet, but considering I've managed to learn a bunch of COLL lately, I should have those 2 cases sewn up in the next day or two.

Time to put OP/OP on the shelf now anyway. The April UK competition has 2 round of 3BLD with 75% going through to round 2, so I have plenty of time to get my knowledge and practice sorted for that.


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## SpartanSailor (Jan 8, 2018)

Shaky Hands said:


> I learned M2 3BLD over this past weekend. I haven't fully learned the S and I swaps yet, but considering I've managed to learn a bunch of COLL lately, I should have those 2 cases sewn up in the next day or two.
> 
> Time to put OP/OP on the shelf now anyway. The April UK competition has 2 round of 3BLD with 75% going through to round 2, so I have plenty of time to get my knowledge and practice sorted for that.



Good luck in April--I've never made the second round in anything! Since starting to learn BLD, I can't find any comps within a reasonable distance that are offering 3BLD. There are always more comps popping up, but I'd like to get an official BLD solve someday too. That would be cool. 

As to M2, I was looking at it (of course) right after my success with OP/OP... for now, I'm still going to stick with OP/OP. I need to find a slick way to create a quick and easy to remember memo. I don't suppose it makes much difference whether I'm using M2 or OP for edges if I'm taking forever to get the memo down.


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## Shaky Hands (Jan 8, 2018)

I didn't realise competitions with 3BLD were in such short supply where you are.

The UK comp in March is, I believe, the first ever here to have no 3BLD. (Although it does have MBLD.)


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## SpartanSailor (Jan 8, 2018)

Looking over the WCA competition site, there are several in the next few months, but they are all too far away for me to make it. I dont' think I can justify a plane ride, hotel and rental car for a 10 minute opportunity to get an official blind solve! HA! My wife would probably have some thoughts on that...

That said, there is no shortage of competitions local to my area... just not featuring BLD. 

Question: Can you enter MBLD and only do 1 cube?


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## openseas (Jan 8, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> Looking over the WCA competition site, there are several in the next few months, but they are all too far away for me to make it. I dont' think I can justify a plane ride, hotel and rental car for a 10 minute opportunity to get an official blind solve! HA! My wife would probably have some thoughts on that...
> 
> That said, there is no shortage of competitions local to my area... just not featuring BLD.
> 
> Question: Can you enter MBLD and only do 1 cube?



No, you need at least 2 for "Multi" BLD.

East coast is lacking BLD events - no major players are there, it's huge in Cali and Texas.


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## h2f (Jan 8, 2018)

I'm back to big blindes. It's nice feeling doing it.


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## SpartanSailor (Jan 9, 2018)

My head hurts just doing single 3BLD. I am impressed with the 4 and 5 BLD. And to be honest, I’m a little more impressed with BLD solving in general now that I have had a couple successes. 

The big blind stuff is just incredible.


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## h2f (Jan 9, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> I’m a little more impressed with BLD solving in general now that I have had a couple successes.



I hope you will get the same feeling with big blindes very soon. In fact, when you learn new things they seem difficult in the beginning and easy when you are fluent in it.


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## JanW (Jan 9, 2018)

I received my stickerless WuJi today. First impression was not overwhelming, very tight and difficult to turn. But it's also my first 7x7, or anything above 5x5, so nothing to compare with. First solve... 45 minutes.  Then I loosened the tensions quite a bit, put some more lube and the second solve clocked in at about 20 minutes.  

Based on my previous knowledge of the 5x5, I feel like I have a clue about what I'm doing, except when it comes to the last 2 centers. Both solves I solved the last pieces with commutators. I'm sure there is some better way, just wasn't able to wrap my head around it yet.


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## SpartanSailor (Jan 9, 2018)

I rarely do my 7x7 anymore, but when I do I also use commutators to solve the last two centers. I also just use brute force reduction for the edges—takes forever. It’s fun, but not something I’ll ever be fast at doing.


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## xyzzy (Jan 9, 2018)

JanW said:


> Both solves I solved the last pieces with commutators. I'm sure there is some better way, just wasn't able to wrap my head around it yet.


Commutators _are_ the best way (usually). For 6×6×6 I have a complete list of speed-optimised last bar algs (see sig), and around half of them are based on 3-cycle commutators in some way. It's possible to use weird tricks to reduce it to 5×5×5 centres (i.e. matching up the oblique centres with the outer t-centres), but this isn't worth it most of the time.


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## JanW (Jan 9, 2018)

Hah, okay, thanks! The first solve I probably spent 10 minutes trying to come up with some way to match up the last pieces. Then I "gave up" and used commutators. Good to know that this was the right decision.


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## mitja (Jan 9, 2018)

Hi, oldies. while reading your posts these days, i got hooked up on 4BLD. So I tried it 2 days ago by 
Corey Sakowski tutorial. Must say i like it very much. Haven't tried a blind solve yet. Just sighted rehearsing of the method. It is very logical and needed a day to learn. Of course knowing M2 helps the wings r2. Now I am in the stage to get rid of most l and r slice Algs, by using avanced M2 system to setup two stickers when i can. what is new to me, is recognising correct wing-sticker combination. And how the hell do you put all your fingers on the wings for the memo? I guess I have to start counting and forget my fingers. But, how do you now which sticker has not been used yet? At least fast enough. Probably it comes with rehearsal. I really wish I had more time for this. I just use the same lettering for centers like my corners are and the 3BLD edges letters for wings( added one more for FDl).
I seek advice about the memo and execution order? I understand the 1/4 turning centers problem with Y-perm. My order for 3BLD is memo:corners first edges last and execution:edges first corners last. But here it is so long memo, so don't know which way to go. corners/wings/centres-centers/wings/corners? or centres/wings/corners/-centres/wings/corners?
Any other tutorial advice?


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## newtonbase (Jan 9, 2018)

mitja said:


> Hi, oldies. while reading your posts these days, i got hooked up on 4BLD. So I tried it 2 days ago by
> Corey Sakowski tutorial. Must say i like it very much. Haven't tried a blind solve yet. Just sighted rehearsing of the method. It is very logical and needed a day to learn. Of course knowing M2 helps the wings r2. Now I am in the stage to get rid of most l and r slice Algs, by using avanced M2 system to setup two stickers when i can. what is new to me, is recognising correct wing-sticker combination. And how the hell do you put all your fingers on the wings for the memo? I guess I have to start counting and forget my fingers. But, how do you now which sticker has not been used yet? At least fast enough. Probably it comes with rehearsal. I really wish I had more time for this. I just use the same lettering for centers like my corners are and the 3BLD edges letters for wings( added one more for FDl).
> I seek advice about the memo and execution order? I understand the 1/4 turning centers problem with Y-perm. My order for 3BLD is memo:corners first edges last and execution:edges first corners last. But here it is so long memo, so don't know which way to go. corners/wings/centres-centers/wings/corners? or centres/wings/corners/-centres/wings/corners?
> Any other tutorial advice?



I memo corners wings centres and execute in the opposite order.


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## h2f (Jan 9, 2018)

My order was: wings, xcenters, corners and doing in the opposite order. When I did corners with OP it was often number of corners divided by 4. If it was by 2 I've added 2 yperms. I had always even number of corners because I used to solve parity to Tperm and it ment adding UBR to last corner.

My order now: corners, wings, xcenters. I solve: xcenters, corners, wings.


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## openseas (Jan 9, 2018)

newtonbase said:


> I memo corners wings centres and execute in the opposite order.



Same here. Corners - Wings - Centers, execution in the opposite order.

@mitja / regarding fingers, yes, better practicing tracing/memo without using anything but audio or images.


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## newtonbase (Jan 9, 2018)

openseas said:


> For OP, you only need 1, just listed 4 specific, 5 specific, one that can be used for both 4 & 5.


I've just been trying the 4/5 BLD OP alg on 5x5 but it also swaps the FR and BR x cross centres. Am I doing something wrong. The 5BLD specific one works but the one I tried is close to my 4x4 and 4BLD one so I'd like to use it.


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## openseas (Jan 9, 2018)

newtonbase said:


> I've just been trying the 4/5 BLD OP alg on 5x5 but it also swaps the FR and BR x cross centres. Am I doing something wrong. The 5BLD specific one works but the one I tried is close to my 4x4 and 4BLD one so I'd like to use it.



Oh, my bad: OP case, please only use 5BLD alg. Your execution was correct.

BTW, for T-center D layer, this alg is better: y m d2 m' U2 m d2 m' y': swapping Uls with Drs


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## newtonbase (Jan 9, 2018)

openseas said:


> Oh, my bad: OP case, please only use 5BLD alg. Your execution was correct.
> 
> BTW, for T-center D layer, this alg is better: y m d2 m' U2 m d2 m' y': swapping Uls with Drs


Thanks. I'll learn the alg. 
I've started using ub as my T-centre buffer so use that alg but without the y move.


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## openseas (Jan 9, 2018)

newtonbase said:


> Thanks. I'll learn the alg.
> I've started using ub as my T-centre buffer so use that alg but without the y move.



Interesting. For U2, Ub buffer requires y & y2 rotation for sides. For Ul buffer, y & y' rotation for the side. Hm, which one will be efficient?
I would say Ul since you can always use "U" instead of y for D layer swap alg but not sure.


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## newtonbase (Jan 9, 2018)

openseas said:


> Interesting. For U2, Ub buffer requires y & y2 rotation for sides. For Ul buffer, y & y' rotation for the side. Hm, which one will be efficient?
> I would say Ul since you can always use "U" instead of y for D layer swap alg but not sure.


I wasn't really thinking about efficiency when I chose it. I just picked it because it's at the back next to my x centre buffer Ubl. I'll have a play with the other one. It's not too late to change.


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## mark49152 (Jan 9, 2018)

I don't see how Ul versus Ub would make a difference to rotations. The only reason to rotate during U2 is to avoid having to do S slices during inserts. So you only need two orientations 90 degrees apart - for example, I switch between F and R faces facing me. I don't know why you would ever need a y2 rotation.


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## mitja (Jan 9, 2018)

openseas said:


> Same here. Corners - Wings - Centers, execution in the opposite order.
> 
> @mitja / regarding fingers, yes, better practicing tracing/memo without using anything but audio or images.


Thanks, I will try this order. Now, I still have to decide about UBr xcentre buffer that I use now. I use UBL for 3BLD, so don't know what is better for my xcentres on 4x4. I like r2 for wings for my fingertricks, but not sure about centres. The alg for top centre is on r slice, thats nice and for target setups I use also y and y', so the slice alternates from l to r. I guess I will stay with UBr it is not that different.
Do you guys always use these:
l slice: 
BUl - (B' U R' B U') r2 (U B' R U' B) 
UFl - l' (B' U R' B U') r2 (U B' R U' B) l 
FDl - l2 (B' U R' B U') r2 (U B' R U' B) l2 
DBl - l (B' U R' B U') r2 (U B' R U' B) l' 
r slice: 
UBr - r2 
FUr - F d (R U R') d' (R U' R') F' r2 
BDr - r2 F (R U R') d (R U' R') d' F'
I succesfuly manage to avoid them in 2/3 of pair combinations.( not UBr of course)
But maybe would be better just to learn them as fast as possible and not waste time thinking through those cases?
My way is to convert l slice case to r slice case( by using F2, B2 or U2 setup). Then use those 3BLD Mark's advance M2 tricks :
FU-s = M2 s M s’ M (where s/s’ are the setup/undo for the s sticker)
s-FU = M’ s M’ s’ M2
BD-s = M2 s M’ s’ M’
s-BD = M s M s’ M2


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## mark49152 (Jan 10, 2018)

@mitja: You can also solve the l slice targets by setting up to UBr. For example, to solve BUl, rather than setting up to FUr with U2, I would set up to UBr with l U2.

Setting up to FUr or BDr might be nicer in some cases though. I might start playing with that.

For adjacent l slice targets I assume you know the comm [r U2 r', D2] and inverse?


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## openseas (Jan 10, 2018)

mark49152 said:


> I don't see how Ul versus Ub would make a difference to rotations. The only reason to rotate during U2 is to avoid having to do S slices during inserts. So you only need two orientations 90 degrees apart - for example, I switch between F and R faces facing me. I don't know why you would ever need a y2 rotation.



Maybe I was not doing efficiently - you can give me a comment. I find it easier to do m slice rather than s/s', that's why I rotate (y or y') for all "u" target of T-center. Same goes for "d" target, rotate "y" then do m slice. Then again, it makes more sense to use Ub since I can use m slice without rotation, lol... 



mitja said:


> My way is to convert l slice case to r slice case( by using F2, B2 or U2 setup). Then use those 3BLD Mark's advance M2 tricks :
> FU-s = M2 s M s’ M (where s/s’ are the setup/undo for the s sticker)
> s-FU = M’ s M’ s’ M2
> BD-s = M2 s M’ s’ M’
> s-BD = M s M s’ M2



Yes, you can use the same advanced M2 techniques for FUr & BDr cases.



mark49152 said:


> @mitja: You can also solve the l slice targets by setting up to UBr. For example, to solve BUl, rather than setting up to FUr with U2, I would set up to UBr with l U2.



Oh, this is nice! I should try this!


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## mark49152 (Jan 10, 2018)

openseas said:


> Maybe I was not doing efficiently - you can give me a comment. I find it easier to do m slice rather than s/s', that's why I rotate (y or y') for all "u" target of T-center. Same goes for "d" target, rotate "y" then do m slice. Then again, it makes more sense to use Ub since I can use m slice without rotation, lol...


Yes I also rotate but I always have one of the same two faces at the front. That way there is never more than a single y or y' needed. Insert at both front and back. You mentioned y2 and I'm not sure why you would ever do that since all you would achieve is turning the M slice around to insert at front instead of back, or something like that, which seems pointless.


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## JohnnyReggae (Jan 10, 2018)

Try this out for a 4x4 scramble 

F B2 R2 Uw' R2 Rw' B2 L2 Rw' Fw' D B F' Rw D Fw L R F B2 Uw' L Fw2 R' Fw2 B' R F2 Fw' D2 U2 Fw2 L' F' U L Uw2 L' R' F'

I got a PB with it of 52.28 and should have been quicker .... but it almost feels like cheating


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## openseas (Jan 10, 2018)

mark49152 said:


> Yes I also rotate but I always have one of the same two faces at the front. That way there is never more than a single y or y' needed. Insert at both front and back. You mentioned y2 and I'm not sure why you would ever do that since all you would achieve is turning the M slice around to insert at front instead of back, or something like that, which seems pointless.



Yes, I realized that after reading your comment - I need to switch my buffer from Ul to Ub now


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## mitja (Jan 10, 2018)

mark49152 said:


> @mitja: You can also solve the l slice targets by setting up to UBr. For example, to solve BUl, rather than setting up to FUr with U2, I would set up to UBr with l U2.
> 
> Setting up to FUr or BDr might be nicer in some cases though. I might start playing with that.
> 
> For adjacent l slice targets I assume you know the comm [r U2 r', D2] and inverse?


Thanks this looks great. 
What about FDl? l2U2 maybe?


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## mark49152 (Jan 10, 2018)

openseas said:


> Yes, I realized that after reading your comment - I need to switch my buffer from Ul to Ub now


That was my original point. If you are rotating, those buffers are equivalent, because in both cases you just switch between two adjacent front faces - one using the m slice to insert from u layer (front insert) or d layer (back insert) and the other using the r slice to insert from e layer (front or back). So really there's no advantage to be gained from switching if you've invested time in Ub. 



mitja said:


> Thanks this looks great.
> What about FDl? l2U2 maybe?


Set up to UBr with l' U2.


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## openseas (Jan 10, 2018)

mark49152 said:


> @mitja: You can also solve the l slice targets by setting up to UBr. For example, to solve BUl, rather than setting up to FUr with U2, I would set up to UBr with l U2.





mark49152 said:


> Set up to UBr with l' U2.



editing my comments: tried to do but realized it changes U layer (U2) followed by l or l'. So, it seems to screw up T & X center of l layer. Probably I'm doing something wrong. Can you give an example?


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## mark49152 (Jan 10, 2018)

openseas said:


> These case, can we use only for even numbered target? (for r2) When it is odd target, r slice in U layer has opposite color - so U2 will change l and r slice color in U layer, am I doing something wrong?


You can use on odd or even, but I am talking about setups for advanced r2 not for solving the piece individually.

Let's say your next two pieces to solve are FLu and FDl. You can solve FLu on its own with [U' L' U: r2] but then you would have to solve FDl individually which is quite a long solution. 

Instead you can set it up to UBr and solve both together. So [l' U2: [U' L' U, r2]]. Note that the inner bracket is now a commutator not a conjugate; the second r2 solves FDl before you undo the setup.

Expanded, that would look like this: (l' U2) (U' L' U) r2 (U' L U) r2 (U2 l)


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## mitja (Jan 10, 2018)

mark49152 said:


> You can use on odd or even, but I am talking about setups for advanced r2 not for solving the piece individually.
> 
> Let's say your next two pieces to solve are FLu and FDl. You can solve FLu on its own with [U' L' U: r2] but then you would have to solve FDl individually which is quite a long solution.
> 
> ...


Thats exactly what I use and I learned it on 3Bld first. At the beginning it was confusing, but eventually it became automatic and it is more or less 3-cycle edges(wings). For me it is also nice because it is in pairs and I don't need to think about flipped M or r layer.


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## SpartanSailor (Jan 10, 2018)

Quick question guys... I'm new to BLD solving in general, having only started as part of a 2018 goal. I have figured out the OP/OP method of 3BLD solving and understand conceptually the M2/OP process, but haven't decided to pursue learning the few differences for M2 yet. 

I'm still interested to follow along with some of the Big BLD discussion.... but what are the "wings"? I assume those are the edges on the big cubes and solving the "wings" is I assume the same as solving the edges? Just trying to keep up with some of the discussion.


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## newtonbase (Jan 10, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> Quick question guys... I'm new to BLD solving in general, having only started as part of a 2018 goal. I have figured out the OP/OP method of 3BLD solving and understand conceptually the M2/OP process, but haven't decided to pursue learning the few differences for M2 yet.
> 
> I'm still interested to follow along with some of the Big BLD discussion.... but what are the "wings"? I assume those are the edges on the big cubes and solving the "wings" is I assume the same as solving the edges? Just trying to keep up with some of the discussion.


Yes. Wings are the edges on a 4x4. On a 5x5 they are the edges either side of the middle edge (midge).


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## mark49152 (Jan 10, 2018)

@SpartanSailor : Yes, wings are the individual edge pieces. Two wings together make an edge. The word "edge" is more commonly used to refer to all the pieces directly between two corners and corresponds to the 3x3 edge after reduction. Note that unlike 3x3 edges, wings cannot be flipped.

You will often see the following terminology:

4x4 - two wings matched together form a "dedge"
5x5 - two wings and a "midge" together form a "tredge"
6x6 - two inner wings and two outer wings together form an edge, and similar for bigger cubes.  I have only rarely seen these called a "quedge".
...etc.


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## mitja (Jan 10, 2018)

Yes two wings of 4x4 is one edge of 3x3. Welcome to Bld. I also started a year ago, but I don't do it regularly, but would love to find more time for it. What is nice about M2 is that is very intuitive. At first I only learned the important M slice Algs( and only two are longer and also one reverse to another), the rest can be done intuitively. I did read all of them and checked if I can do them by myself. Thats all you need. First ,check some youtube tutorials so you visually understand the system of setup and interchange.


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## mitja (Jan 10, 2018)

I see we all answered at the same time


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## mitja (Jan 10, 2018)

openseas said:


> editing my comments: tried to do but realized it changes U layer (U2) followed by l or l'. So, it seems to screw up T & X center of l layer. Probably I'm doing something wrong. Can you give an example?


Why don't you try it on 3x3 first. It is much easier to follow the concept. But the concept is a 3-cycle. And what is nice, i would call it intuitive 3-cycle. I browsed through many 3-cycle algs for edges and compared them with this advanced M2 cycles. And many are simmilar, many are also shorter and optimized, but eventuality not that much longer to be worth memorizing as a must. I prefere this intuitive aproach.


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## mark49152 (Jan 10, 2018)

mitja said:


> I browsed through many 3-cycle algs for edges and compared them with this advanced M2 cycles. And many are simmilar, many are also shorter and optimized, but eventuality not that much longer to be worth memorizing as a must. I prefere this intuitive aproach.


That is what is great about M2. It is simple enough to learn as a beginner method, and once you start to exploit advanced M2 to the full, what you have is effectively 3-style, albeit constrained to M slice interchanges. That's very efficient. It's also a great platform for incrementally adding new comms that interchange on other faces/slices wherever that gives significant optimisation; but in many cases the M slice comms are simply not worth replacing.


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## h2f (Jan 10, 2018)

mark49152 said:


> It's also a great platform for incrementally adding new comms that interchange on other faces/slices wherever that gives significant optimisation; but in many cases the M slice comms are simply not worth replacing.



My first list of edge comms was based only on M slices. Thats the big advantage of M2 that gives an easy way to learn comms. But few weeks ago, when I saw Ishaan's list, I've decided to go a little bit further and I've started adding E and S moves. I was surpriesed that the 3cycles can be done in so many ways.


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## mitja (Jan 10, 2018)

I am starting to play with the same concept with xcentres. Did any of you try. I figure, if I am just starting to learn centres. I want to bring all setups and undoes to muscle memory as centres are new to me. But, should I just jump to advanced way, solving two at the time,by setting up one centre to target and solving the second one and undo the first. So 3 cycling( advanced M2 way) immidiately and try to put that in my memory from start.


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## openseas (Jan 10, 2018)

mitja said:


> Why don't you try it on 3x3 first. It is much easier to follow the concept. But the concept is a 3-cycle. And what is nice, i would call it intuitive 3-cycle. I browsed through many 3-cycle algs for edges and compared them with this advanced M2 cycles. And many are simmilar, many are also shorter and optimized, but eventuality not that much longer to be worth memorizing as a must. I prefere this intuitive aproach.



Thanks. I do use 3 style combined advanced M2 for 3BLD but got confused with l layer setting up to UBr. Understood now, thanks!


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## mark49152 (Jan 10, 2018)

h2f said:


> But few weeks ago, when I saw Ishaan's list, I've decided to go a little bit further and I've started adding E and S moves. I was surpriesed that the 3cycles can be done in so many ways.


Me too. I use lots of E and S comms when solving untimed but am not yet comfortable enough to use them under time pressure.



mitja said:


> I am starting to play with the same concept with xcentres. Did any of you try. I figure, if I am just starting to learn centres. I want to bring all setups and undoes to muscle memory as centres are new to me. But, should I just jump to advanced way, solving two at the time,by setting up one centre to target and solving the second one and undo the first. So 3 cycling( advanced M2 way) immidiately and try to put that in my memory from start.


Yes I use lots of the same ideas. Especially for D layer - the most efficient way to solve a D target in U2 is to set it up to the U layer. With buffer Ubr, I use l2 to set up Dbl to Ufl then solve it together with a side piece.


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## openseas (Jan 11, 2018)

openseas said:


> Thanks. I do use 3 style combined advanced M2 for 3BLD but got confused with l layer setting up to UBr. Understood now, thanks!



@mark49152 / Thanks! (Experiment completed!)

Summary for l slice targets (FDl, UFl, BUl):
1. When l slice targets come first, setup to UBr then [r2, x x x], xxx is for normal r2 for the first target.
2. When l slice targets come second, setup to UBr then [x x x, r2], xxx is for normal r2 for the first target.
This works everything but U & r layer targets


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## h2f (Jan 11, 2018)

mark49152 said:


> Me too. I use lots of E and S comms when solving untimed but am not yet comfortable enough to use them under time pressure.



I use E moves in a normal solves and I've started working on S moves. They seem so awkward but if top blinders use them they must be efficient.


openseas said:


> This works everything but U & r layer targets



For U and r layer targets works as well. For example Dfl-Urb you can do l' U2 setup and do it as Ubr-Ulf. For Dfl-Bdr: l' U2 and r2 (first target in Ubr) D r (U R2 U') r' (U R2 U') D' r2 (second target in Dbr). Only dealing with Fur is a little bit harder but I used to do U l' U2 to setup it to Ubr-Ruf.


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## mark49152 (Jan 11, 2018)

openseas said:


> This works everything but U & r layer targets


The best way to think of it is that it works for anything but you do need to think about whether the setup moves the other target too. If after the setup both targets are in a configuration that is much easier/nicer to solve than it was before, you're good to go.

Example: FDl URf. Do l' U2 to setup FDl to UBr. Note that URf has now moved to ULb so you need to solve it there instead. (As an alternative you could just do l' U' setup and they are just as nice to solve...)


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## newtonbase (Jan 11, 2018)

Just did my 23rd 4 cube MBLD. I've only got all 4 on the 11th attempt. It's getting a little annoying. Errors are mostly in execution and least often in recall but I'm able to get pretty much anything wrong. Not sure how to tackle this.


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## h2f (Jan 11, 2018)

Whats your time, Mark @newtonbase? I've found a little bit harder to get 5 cubes than 5bld though it's almost the same amount of information to memorize.


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## mark49152 (Jan 11, 2018)

newtonbase said:


> Just did my 23rd 4 cube MBLD. I've only got all 4 on the 11th attempt. It's getting a little annoying. Errors are mostly in execution and least often in recall but I'm able to get pretty much anything wrong. Not sure how to tackle this.


What kind of execution errors?


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## mitja (Jan 11, 2018)

Yes, I was trying that today. I wish to use something for U layer but thats not an option


mark49152 said:


> The best way to think of it is that it works for anything but you do need to think about whether the setup moves the other target too. If after the setup both targets are in a configuration that is much easier/nicer to solve than it was before, you're good to go.
> 
> Example: FDl URf. Do l' U2 to setup FDl to UBr. Note that URf has now moved to ULb so you need to solve it there instead. (As an alternative you could just do l' U' setup and they are just as nice to solve...)


I also like this one: 
BUl-FDl - setup by F2 B2 then BDr-FUr solution: x F R U R’ d R U’ R’ d’ x' B2 F2
and opposite one is also possible.


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## openseas (Jan 11, 2018)

mitja said:


> Yes, I was trying that today. I wish to use something for U layer but thats not an option
> 
> I also like this one:
> BUl-FDl - setup by F2 B2 then BDr-FUr solution: x F R U R’ d R U’ R’ d’ x' B2 F2
> and opposite one is also possible.



Thanks, Guys! More I play with it, can understand where all those setups impacts other targets and how to handle. Now I understand way better than before with advanced M2 / U2 / r2. Really helpful!

Then, I realized that all M2 (or M/M'), I can solve two targets (just like using commutators) under any circumstance - just matter of efficiency. Need more practice on 5BLD as well with this. I want to cut down quite a bit of time for 5BLD to be qualified for US Nats (4BLD - 10 min, 5BLD - 20min) within 5 months. Time for more practice!


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## mark49152 (Jan 11, 2018)

Good luck @openseas!


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## newtonbase (Jan 11, 2018)

h2f said:


> Whats your time, Mark @newtonbase? I've found a little bit harder to get 5 cubes than 5bld though it's almost the same amount of information to memorize.


Around 20 minutes. But it can vary. 
5BLD has much harder tracing and execution so I'd expect it to be slower. I got 5 cubes on my second attempt but 4 cubes fits my available practice time better. 


mark49152 said:


> What kind of execution errors?


Sloppy stuff usually. I executed UB instead of UD today. I've undone setups wrongly. I've lost track of what I'd done so done parity twice etc. Better focus would help which I think is easier in competition. 



openseas said:


> Thanks, Guys! More I play with it, can understand where all those setups impacts other targets and how to handle. Now I understand way better than before with advanced M2 / U2 / r2. Really helpful!
> 
> Then, I realized that all M2 (or M/M'), I can solve two targets (just like using commutators) under any circumstance - just matter of efficiency. Need more practice on 5BLD as well with this. I want to cut down quite a bit of time for 5BLD to be qualified for US Nats (4BLD - 10 min, 5BLD - 20min) within 5 months. Time for more practice!


20 mins is tough.


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## mark49152 (Jan 11, 2018)

newtonbase said:


> Sloppy stuff usually. I executed UB instead of UD today. I've undone setups wrongly. I've lost track of what I'd done so done parity twice etc. Better focus would help which I think is easier in competition..


Yeah if you're in a distracting environment that will not help. Do you keep it simple during execution? On here you've mentioned various more advanced things like comms, tricks and UB UL swap during memo. If your execution accuracy is suffering maybe you should strip it down to basics until you've fully nailed that, and add advanced stuff incrementally while maintaining accuracy.


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## newtonbase (Jan 11, 2018)

mark49152 said:


> Yeah if you're in a distracting environment that will not help. Do you keep it simple during execution? On here you've mentioned various more advanced things like comms, tricks and UB UL swap during memo. If your execution accuracy is suffering maybe you should strip it down to basics until you've fully nailed that, and add advanced stuff incrementally while maintaining accuracy.


It's certainly a poor environment and I don't use a blindfold or ear protection. 
I don't switch targets in MBLD as I memo in execution order (edges first). I do use some advanced M2 stuff and the odd corner comm but nothing too fancy. Maybe I should just take an extra minute or two on execution.


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## mark49152 (Jan 11, 2018)

newtonbase said:


> It's certainly a poor environment and I don't use a blindfold or ear protection.
> I don't switch targets in MBLD as I memo in execution order (edges first). I do use some advanced M2 stuff and the odd corner comm but nothing too fancy. Maybe I should just take an extra minute or two on execution.


Yeah I'm not sure what to suggest apart from keep it simple, take your time and keep focused. My MBLD errors are almost always lapses in focus.

I plan to start switching UL and UB in memo but want to be consistent for all events. I think it would confuse me otherwise. For MBLD that means I'll have to change my memo order. We'll see how it goes.


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## h2f (Jan 11, 2018)

I must get better in mbld. I memo 5bld in around 9 minuts - 5 cubes should take same time but they take around 20.


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## SpartanSailor (Jan 11, 2018)

As you guys moved from 3BLD to either MBLD or bigger cubes, which order did you do it?
1. Moved up in size--from 3 to 4 to 5 BLD
2. Add 3x3 cubes for MBLD with 2, then 3 cubes, etc...

Just curious. I'm a ways away from going beyond my basic 3BLD, but I feel like I would go to 2 or 3 cubes using a well developed 3x3 blind solving pattern before I added new complexity by added larger sized cubes.


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## Mike Hughey (Jan 11, 2018)

I went to larger sized cubes first. This was back in 2007; bigger cubes interested me more than multi, and also multi was more of a sideshow-type event, while big BLD seemed impossible, but was taken more seriously by a few people (mainly Chris Hardwick and Daniel Beyer).

Fun moment from the wayback machine - my first ever 4x4x4 BLD success, which I did for the Speedsolving.com weekly competition:
https://www.speedsolving.com/forum/...-2-3-3oh-4-5-bf-sq1-mg.1103/page-2#post-10488

(I stumbled on that link looking to be sure I was right about this - I was pretty sure the order was that I did big cubes BLD first, but I wanted to be sure. I'm positive my first attempts at both were for the Speedsolving.com weekly competitions.)

And with a little more searching, I also came up with this - results from the first time I ever competed in the Speedsolving.com weekly competition (as I recall, I talked to Arnaud at the US Open and he suggested I should compete, so I did the next week):
https://www.speedsolving.com/forum/...tition-results-rankings.607/page-2#post-11543

That thread is the very first results thread there ever was for our competition. It's kind of fun to go back and see its humble beginnings.


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## h2f (Jan 11, 2018)

@Mike Hughey This is amazing because you a pioneer in this event.



SpartanSailor said:


> As you guys moved from 3BLD to either MBLD or bigger cubes, which order did you do it?
> 1. Moved up in size--from 3 to 4 to 5 BLD
> 2. Add 3x3 cubes for MBLD with 2, then 3 cubes, etc...
> 
> Just curious. I'm a ways away from going beyond my basic 3BLD, but I feel like I would go to 2 or 3 cubes using a well developed 3x3 blind solving pattern before I added new complexity by added larger sized cubes.



3 years ago, when I started bld events, I went both directions: mbld (adding cubes one by one) and big blindes. But after around a year I stopped practicing mbld.


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## SpartanSailor (Jan 11, 2018)

Very cool stuff.


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## mark49152 (Jan 11, 2018)

h2f said:


> I must get better in mbld. I memo 5bld in around 9 minuts - 5 cubes should take same time but they take around 20.


Yes 20 minutes is very slow for 5 cubes considering how fast your memo is for 3BLD. Your 3BLD memo is about the same as mine, maybe a little faster. For guidance, I take around 1:20 per cube for small attempts - about 45 for first memo and 35 for a review tracing the cube again. So for 5 cubes you should really be aiming at sub-7 memo.



SpartanSailor said:


> As you guys moved from 3BLD to either MBLD or bigger cubes, which order did you do it?
> 1. Moved up in size--from 3 to 4 to 5 BLD
> 2. Add 3x3 cubes for MBLD with 2, then 3 cubes, etc...


For me, MBLD wasn't really a move up, so I guess the answer is big blind.

I started competing in MBLD at the same comp at which I started in 3BLD, but I never practised MBLD because at that level there was nothing new to learn. I would just enter the event and wing it. I started 4BLD just after that first comp, and there is of course more to learn for that so I practised it quite a lot. I didn't really start practising MBLD at all until about a year ago when I wanted to go beyond 10 cubes and needed dedicated practice to improve my MBLD system.


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## SpartanSailor (Jan 11, 2018)

I see. That makes sense. MBLD is just doing the same thing.... more than once. I suppose more than 10 would definitely require some serious focus!


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## mark49152 (Jan 11, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> I see. That makes sense. MBLD is just doing the same thing.... more than once. I suppose more than 10 would definitely require some serious focus!


Yes it is just multiple safe 3BLDs, up until the point where you find yourself under time pressure or lacking memo capacity or reliability. From that point it's all about developing a good memo system and time management, which takes dedicated practice.


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## newtonbase (Jan 11, 2018)

mark49152 said:


> Yeah I'm not sure what to suggest apart from keep it simple, take your time and keep focused. My MBLD errors are almost always lapses in focus.


I shouldn't really worry. The purpose of doing this is to improve my memo and that's definitely working. Recall Is good and I'm getting used to my rooms. 



mark49152 said:


> I plan to start switching UL and UB in memo but want to be consistent for all events. I think it would confuse me otherwise. For MBLD that means I'll have to change my memo order. We'll see how it goes.


I'm not keen on CEEC for MBLD which is required for the UL UB switch. I did consider trying to memo corners first but put them in my 2nd location but it seems prone to error. 


SpartanSailor said:


> As you guys moved from 3BLD to either MBLD or bigger cubes, which order did you do it?
> 1. Moved up in size--from 3 to 4 to 5 BLD
> 2. Add 3x3 cubes for MBLD with 2, then 3 cubes, etc...


Personally I preferred to get my memo good enough before tackling 4BLD but I seem to be in the minority and the others are better than me.


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## pglewis (Jan 12, 2018)

Great to see all the mbld and big blind talk going on. 

I think I'm nearly ready to come out of my LL hibernation and start hitting the timer heavily for a week or two. I've been working on untimed solves for so long that my "timer legs" are gone... I was much better about it not affecting my solves when I was timing frequently. Full OLL recall is solid for me now minus a few low frequency ones; enough that I can just drill the remaining troublesome ones. Recognition will be an ongoing thing for a couple more months but I've turned the corner. I warmed up and did some LSLL solves and saw quite a few in the 7-8 range with a best Ao5 just under 8, and several of those included weaker OLLs for me where I just happened to get a reasonably quick read. Looks like I've trimmed about 2 seconds from my last layer, my previous Ao5 for LSLL was just under :10 shortly after I started down this path. Time for me to put it all together and break some PBs. That old Ao50 in the 28s being target number 1.


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## SpartanSailor (Jan 12, 2018)

Took me 15 minutes, but got my first blind success with a parity... I wasn’t going for efficiency and speed, just success. So decided after edges to do the D-A-D swap rather than the R-perm. I can do the R-perm, but didn’t want to goon it up. 

I’m always a little scared to look after I’ve finished my memo... lol


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## Jason Green (Jan 12, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> Took me 15 minutes, but got my first blind success with a parity... I wasn’t going for efficiency and speed, just success. So decided after edges to do the D-A-D swap rather than the R-perm. I can do the R-perm, but didn’t want to goon it up.
> 
> I’m always a little scared to look after I’ve finished my memo... lol


You should keep your eyes open until you finish memo.  Did you mean execution?


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## SpartanSailor (Jan 12, 2018)

You got me... I did mean execution. I have to admit, I didn’t think I’d get my first success as quickly as I did and it’s a ton of fun!


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## h2f (Jan 12, 2018)

mark49152 said:


> Yes 20 minutes is very slow for 5 cubes considering how fast your memo is for 3BLD. Your 3BLD memo is about the same as mine, maybe a little faster. For guidance, I take around 1:20 per cube for small attempts - about 45 for first memo and 35 for a review tracing the cube again. So for 5 cubes you should really be aiming at sub-7 memo.



I think lack of practice plays a role. I must take a serious practice in it. My goal for this year is to make 10 points.


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## openseas (Jan 12, 2018)

I'm organizing a DFW comp next month - 

Just in case whoever happens to visit North Texas next Feb 11th, you can register here: "Odd Cubing Day 2018"

https://www.worldcubeassociation.org/competitions/OddCubingDay2018/edit/registrations

@Jason Green / There is one guy who registered today with his 9 year old daughter. Looks like this is gonna be their first ever competition. We may have one more senior cuber joining in DFW area


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## pglewis (Jan 12, 2018)

Not a lot of time for timed solves today but encouraging nonetheless. Surprisingly knocked a few tenths off my Ao5 which was already rather good for me in the 22s. The :44 was a long pause for OLL recall, still ended up getting the AUF wrong, then an N-Perm finale. Then I stepped on a rake. Only one disaster solve in the bunch this time, though.


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## bradah (Jan 12, 2018)

Hello, 
Am new here......not as fast as you guys.... still over 1 minute, but working on it.


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## h2f (Jan 13, 2018)

Hi, @bradah


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## newtonbase (Jan 13, 2018)

bradah said:


> Hello,
> Am new here......not as fast as you guys.... still over 1 minute, but working on it.


Welcome @bradah You'll be underground a minute before you know it. Have you thought about competing?


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## mark49152 (Jan 13, 2018)

newtonbase said:


> Welcome @bradah You'll be underground a minute before you know it.


I know we're old but that's a bit rude. Autocorrect?


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## openseas (Jan 13, 2018)

bradah said:


> Hello,
> Am new here......not as fast as you guys.... still over 1 minute, but working on it.



Welcome!



mark49152 said:


> I know we're old but that's a bit rude. Autocorrect?



Haha!


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## newtonbase (Jan 13, 2018)

mark49152 said:


> I know we're old but that's a bit rude. Autocorrect?


Oh dear. Yes, dodgy autocorrect.


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## bradah (Jan 13, 2018)

Thanks for the "Welcome" everyone -- I got into cubing last year. I've thought of competing, but want to get faster first.
Still learning Intuitive F2L. Glad us "elderly gentlemen" have a place on the forums to chat


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## pglewis (Jan 13, 2018)

bradah said:


> Hello,
> Am new here......not as fast as you guys.... still over 1 minute, but working on it.



Welcome! Everyone here was over a minute at one time. 



bradah said:


> Thanks for the "Welcome" everyone -- I got into cubing last year. I've thought of competing, but want to get faster first.
> Still learning Intuitive F2L. Glad us "elderly gentlemen" have a place on the forums to chat



I think the first competition for a lot of people is mostly about introducing themselves to the environment; how the process works when your heat is called, using the StackMat timers, finding how you react to a comp environment, etc. 3x3 is the "everyone event" and comps normally have a generous 10 min limit to accommodate practically anyone who can solve. Even if you get comp nerves and it takes you 7 minutes, at least you'll have official solves on record and a better idea about your next one. I'm a big proponent of getting that first comp under your belt... especially the older crowd, we gotta offset that average age some!


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## SpartanSailor (Jan 13, 2018)

bradah said:


> Hello,
> Am new here......not as fast as you guys.... still over 1 minute, but working on it.



Welcome!


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## SpartanSailor (Jan 13, 2018)

pglewis said:


> Welcome! Everyone here was over a minute at one time.
> 
> 
> 
> I think the first competition for a lot of people is mostly about introducing themselves to the environment; how the process works when your heat is called, using the StackMat timers, finding how you react to a comp environment, etc. 3x3 is the "everyone event" and comps normally have a generous 10 min limit to accommodate practically anyone who can solve. Even if you get comp nerves and it takes you 7 minutes, at least you'll have official solves on record and a better idea about your next one. I'm a big proponent of getting that first comp under your belt... especially the older crowd, we gotta offset that average age some!



Agreed. I would recommend you go and enjoy the competition. You may be surprised at how much fun they can be... and I was at one today with several people solving well over a minute.


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## newtonbase (Jan 13, 2018)

Yes, times don't matter at your first comp. They are just a marker to beat at your next one.


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## newtonbase (Jan 13, 2018)

Much as I hate to drop out of the over 40s 3BLD top 10 @openseas is now well ahead of me. Could these be updated when you get a chance please @Logiqx? Thanks.


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## mitja (Jan 13, 2018)

bradah said:


> Thanks for the "Welcome" everyone -- I got into cubing last year. I've thought of competing, but want to get faster first.
> Still learning Intuitive F2L. Glad us "elderly gentlemen" have a place on the forums to chat


Welcome here, don't worry about speed yet, just go for fun.


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## Shaky Hands (Jan 14, 2018)

@bradah - welcome to the madhouse. 

Good luck with the F2L. It's the most important part of CFOP, I think most will agree.


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## Jason Green (Jan 14, 2018)

openseas said:


> I'm organizing a DFW comp next month -
> 
> Just in case whoever happens to visit North Texas next Feb 11th, you can register here: "Odd Cubing Day 2018"
> 
> ...


That would be cool! I may let my kids come. I'm feeling pretty good that at 6 and 7 they can keep calm while I'm competing. Loving my new 5x5s, especially the Wushuang M at the moment. Got a PB of 2:36 and getting under 3:00 a lot, I only had two sub 3 minute solves before today. 



bradah said:


> Hello,
> Am new here......not as fast as you guys.... still over 1 minute, but working on it.


Welcome. Comps are really fun I'd go to one the first chance you get!


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## One Wheel (Jan 14, 2018)

Jason Green said:


> Loving my new 5x5s, especially the Wushuang M at the moment. Got a PB of 2:36 and getting under 3:00 a lot, I only had two sub 3 minute solves before today.



We're pretty close. I made a pretty good jump when I made my Yuxin M. My Ao100 is sitting at 2:48.xx, single of 2:15.xx. I'm sure your superiority at 3x3 will help you pass me up soon. I just graduated sub-3:00 on the 5x5 race thread, I'll race you to 2:30!


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## Logiqx (Jan 14, 2018)

newtonbase said:


> Much as I hate to drop out of the over 40s 3BLD top 10 @openseas is now well ahead of me. Could these be updated when you get a chance please @Logiqx? Thanks.



Updated... I see that Ron has gone and beaten my OH single as well. Doh!

Link in signature.


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## SpartanSailor (Jan 14, 2018)

Logiqx said:


> Updated... I see that Ron has gone and beaten my OH single as well. Doh!
> 
> Link in signature.



Is there a list/ranking for us old guys? I’m not seeing any link or reference to the list... what am I missing?


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## Logiqx (Jan 14, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> Is there a list/ranking for us old guys? I’m not seeing any link or reference to the list... what am I missing?



Signatures don't show on mobile devices.

https://github.com/Logiqx/wca-ipy


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## SpartanSailor (Jan 14, 2018)

Gotcha! I thought it may be something like that. Pretty cool. I guess I will have to link my WCA ID to the page... being true to “old guy” stereotypes, it’ll take me a moment to figure out how to update my profile. Lol


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## openseas (Jan 14, 2018)

@Logiqx / Thanks for the update!

BTW, what's the (unwritten) policy on the list? For example, I know somebody who is over 40 & competing, can I recommend him/her to be listed? or only him/herself can make the request? If we don't reveal any more personal information but age group, like 40s, 50s and so on. Since I know several people, not sure whether ok to be listed or not.


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## newtonbase (Jan 14, 2018)

openseas said:


> @Logiqx / Thanks for the update!
> 
> BTW, what's the (unwritten) policy on the list? For example, I know somebody who is over 40 & competing, can I recommend him/her to be listed? or only him/herself can make the request? If we don't reveal any more personal information but age group, like 40s, 50s and so on. Since I know several people, not sure whether ok to be listed or not.


IIRC people would generally have to volunteer unless their ages were already public record. But if they are good at 3BLD its best to leave them off


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## Jason Green (Jan 14, 2018)

One Wheel said:


> We're pretty close. I made a pretty good jump when I made my Yuxin M. My Ao100 is sitting at 2:48.xx, single of 2:15.xx. I'm sure your superiority at 3x3 will help you pass me up soon. I just graduated sub-3:00 on the 5x5 race thread, I'll race you to 2:30!


Sure I'll race! I haven't done the race threads for some time. I remember the pressure and excitement I had with the sub 20 thread! Maybe I'll get into one of them again. I really keep intending to start hitting blind again but have been putting it off.


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## Logiqx (Jan 14, 2018)

openseas said:


> @Logiqx / Thanks for the update!
> 
> BTW, what's the (unwritten) policy on the list? For example, I know somebody who is over 40 & competing, can I recommend him/her to be listed? or only him/herself can make the request? If we don't reveal any more personal information but age group, like 40s, 50s and so on. Since I know several people, not sure whether ok to be listed or not.



I guess there are 3 groups of people on the list:
1) People who provided their DOB directly to me or where I obtained it from a Wiki page.
2) People who provided their YOB or age, allowing for a "cautious" approach to determining when they were over 40.
3) People added to the list without DOB or YOB. This is only permitted if they definitely started competing after 40.

In answer to your question. I'm happy to add them if you are confident they qualify for over 40's and you don't think they'd mind.


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## Jason Green (Jan 14, 2018)

Logiqx said:


> I guess there are 3 groups of people on the list:
> 1) People who provided their DOB directly to me or where I obtained it from a Wiki page.
> 2) People who provided their YOB or age, allowing for a "cautious" approach to determining when they were over 40.
> 3) People added to the list without DOB or YOB. This is only permitted if they definitely started competing after 40.
> ...


Jason's theory - anyone faster than me that doesn't opt in to the over 40s list is 39 or younger.


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## SpartanSailor (Jan 14, 2018)

Logiqx said:


> I guess there are 3 groups of people on the list:
> 1) People who provided their DOB directly to me or where I obtained it from a Wiki page.
> 2) People who provided their YOB or age, allowing for a "cautious" approach to determining when they were over 40.
> 3) People added to the list without DOB or YOB. This is only permitted if they definitely started competing after 40.
> ...



You can add me.... my first comp was a month following my 40th birthday. I’m not sure my age is relflected on my WCA profile, I know it’s not here.


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## Selkie (Jan 14, 2018)

@bradah - Welcome of the old cubers home 

@Logiqx - I hadn't noticed Ron's OH single. I think my best chance of catching him on 3,4 and 5 is probably 5x5 but he has said he will practice more if I get too close 

@Jason Green - The Wuchuang M is a great cube. Mine has been main for about 6 months I think though I am getting a Moyu Bochuang magnetised as I have always loved the turning style of it.

Talking of magnetic, the only missing 2x2 - 7x7 M's in my collection as of Christmas was 2x2 and 7x7. My wife bought me a SpeedCubeShop Supernova Wuji 7x7 M for Christmas which was delivered last week. It was disappointing out of the box but has got better day by day and will be fully broken in ready for Welsh Open. As for 2x2 I have ordered a Gans 249 v2 2x2.

Getting lots of practice in for Welsh Open in a fortnight and seeing a good amount of PBs. Today was a really pleasing day with no less than 5 personal bests:-

5x5 Single: 1:30.19 - Oh so close to sub 1:30!
5x5 Average: 1:48.22
6x6 Single: 3:00.77 - Oh so close again!
7x7 Single: 4:51.10
7x7 Mean: 5:11.72

Having spent a long time on OH the last fortnight it is time I really push normal 3x3 practice. Now I am globally sub 15s at home I need to give myself the best chance of achieving that in comp too in a fortnight. Since I am only going on the Sunday, its quite nice to be only concentrating on only 5 events.

Lots and lots of BLD talk and yes, whilst I am registered for Welsh Open I have not put in the time. I think my official BLD journey will have to wait until April and High Wycombe Open


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## openseas (Jan 14, 2018)

Logiqx said:


> I guess there are 3 groups of people on the list:
> In answer to your question. I'm happy to add them if you are confident they qualify for over 40's and you don't think they'd mind.



Haha, folks. Sounds like rule of thumb is new oldies have to be slow to be listed and not to disrupt the current rankings 

With that spirit in mind, you can add 2017GRAD03 Patrick Grady, he is well over 40s. He started competing from last year. (@Jason Green & @newtonbase : your rankings are safe )



SpartanSailor said:


> You can add me.... my first comp was a month following my 40th birthday. I’m not sure my age is relflected on my WCA profile, I know it’s not here.



WCA dB does have your birthday information but they don't make it public. (changed the policy a while ago to protect the personal information). So, if you compete, your organizer knows your age but that's it.


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## SpartanSailor (Jan 14, 2018)

Oh.... they know me. AND they know I’m old! Lol... they used to get confused when my son got his check in stuff complete and I was standing there trying to check in as well. “Oh, you compete too?” Yes. Yes I do.


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## openseas (Jan 14, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> Oh.... they know me. AND they know I’m old! Lol... they used to get confused when my son got his check in stuff complete and I was standing there trying to check in as well. “Oh, you compete too?” Yes. Yes I do.



Been there. Now I competed quite a lot / most of Texas & Korean cubers know me (also facebook friends 
I also gave seminars couple of time showing them how to magnetize cubes & statistic related tips.


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## newtonbase (Jan 14, 2018)

openseas said:


> Haha, folks. Sounds like rule of thumb is new oldies have to be slow to be listed and not to disrupt the current rankings



It's certainly preferred.


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## SpartanSailor (Jan 15, 2018)

I tried practising blind today and it’s fun, but exhausting. I can’t just do it like normal solves (one right after the other...). After a few in a row I need to clear my head a little before I continue. 

But I did get 7:45.221 for one practise run today—that is a good one for me. I think I spend almost 6 minutes to memo. Still using OP/OP and not very efficient, but it’s effective.


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## Mike Hughey (Jan 15, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> I tried practising blind today and it’s fun, but exhausting. I can’t just do it like normal solves (one right after the other...). After a few in a row I need to clear my head a little before I continue.
> 
> But I did get 7:45.221 for one practise run today—that is a good one for me. I think I spend almost 6 minutes to memo. Still using OP/OP and not very efficient, but it’s effective.


In my experience, getting to where you can do BLD like normal solves is just practice. A LOT of practice (at least in my case). Do as many as you can in a row each day, and slowly you'll increase the number you can handle, until you eventually get where you can keep going all day. At one point when I was really in practice I was sometimes doing 150 to 200 solves in a single day.

Obviously you'll need to speed up to get there, but that also happens the more you practice, especially if you try to push your memo speed - you'll get faster quickly.


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## openseas (Jan 15, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> I tried practising blind today and it’s fun, but exhausting. I can’t just do it like normal solves (one right after the other...). After a few in a row I need to clear my head a little before I continue.



One method I used earlier was practicing just memo. I made a script which generated thousands of edge & corner targets based on my letter scheme. Just read those targets and try to come up with images: I was able to trim down my memo time from 3.5 min (memo only in the beginning) to 1.5 ~ 2min. I believe this practice allowed me to create bunch of letter pair images. Or you can create your own PAO list (People Action Object) list - that way, you can spend less trying to make up images.




Mike Hughey said:


> In my experience, getting to where you can do BLD like normal solves is just practice. A LOT of practice (at least in my case). Do as many as you can in a row each day, and slowly you'll increase the number you can handle, until you eventually get where you can keep going all day. At one point when I was really in practice I was sometimes doing 150 to 200 solves in a single day.



Wow, 150~200, even with averaging 2min, that's a good 6 hours!


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## h2f (Jan 15, 2018)

Mike Hughey said:


> At one point when I was really in practice I was sometimes doing 150 to 200 solves in a single day.



Impressive. My record is 80 solves.


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## Mike Hughey (Jan 15, 2018)

openseas said:


> Wow, 150~200, even with averaging 2min, that's a good 6 hours!



Yes, I would do about 50 at a sitting, then take a 15 minute break, then do 50 more. That was right before US Nationals 2011, which went really well for me.


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## newtonbase (Jan 15, 2018)

openseas said:


> One method I used earlier was practicing just memo. I made a script which generated thousands of edge & corner targets based on my letter scheme.



This site is nice for practicing memo 
http://tobip.ch/letter_pair_generator/


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## JohnnyReggae (Jan 15, 2018)

Selkie said:


> The Wuchuang M is a great cube. Mine has been main for about 6 months I think though I am getting a Moyu Bochuang magnetised as I have always loved the turning style of it.


I decided to magnetise my Moyu BoChuang after selling my black WuShuang M to someone that really wanted a magnetic 5x5. The WuShuang was my best 5x5 at the time. But I must say that the magnetic BoChuang is a great 5x5 and I do like the turning on it. I have since gotten a stickerless WuShuang which I magnetised and I prefer it over the BoChuang because of it's smaller size. The BoChuang also has some spring noise which can get a little irritating, but then again some lube on the springs and core internals would probably sort that out.


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## mitja (Jan 15, 2018)

Mike Hughey said:


> Yes, I would do about 50 at a sitting, then take a 15 minute break, then do 50 more. That was right before US Nationals 2011, which went really well for me.





newtonbase said:


> This site is nice for practicing memo
> http://tobip.ch/letter_pair_generator/


I wish i could insert my lettering scheme. Do you have any advice about 4BLD method of preparing the memo, for wings? How do you know which stickers haven't been used yet? Do you still use fingers or Is it just by memory? I can count them and know how many are left, but after that is some guessing. I am not shure about all of them. I must admit, I don't find enough time to rehearse like you guys. Probably when you do that many solves, you always know which stickers are already in memo and which are not. I am not there yet


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## SpartanSailor (Jan 15, 2018)

I know I’ll improve with time and practice.... There aren’t many comps with BLD I’m my area. In fact, none of the N. American comps listed on WCA site have blind in my area between now and as far out as the project comps. New ones pop up all the time. I just want to be confident enough to give a legit attempt at a BLD solve in comp without running out of time because my memo phase is too long.


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## SpartanSailor (Jan 15, 2018)

newtonbase said:


> This site is nice for practicing memo
> http://tobip.ch/letter_pair_generator/



That’s a cool generator. I’ll have to figure out how to improve my memo method.


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## mark49152 (Jan 15, 2018)

mitja said:


> Do you have any advice about 4BLD method of preparing the memo, for wings? How do you know which stickers haven't been used yet? Do you still use fingers or Is it just by memory?


I have 5 wing stickers I like to start a new cycle on, and I kind of keep a mental note which of those I have not yet seen. Then when I hit a break I can usually pick one of them quickly to restart on.


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## muchacho (Jan 15, 2018)

Ao12 OH PB: 24.276 (was 24.896 from 2 weeks ago)

I'm gonna take OH seriously, because I like it... and it seems to be one of the easiest events to get relatively fast at. The goal this year is being sub-24, a few days ago it looked highly improbable, but today I'm not scared. I've decided to first learn CMLL and see where that gets me.



Spoiler



10105 15-ene-2018 14:22:41 00:23.918 D' B2 D F2 U F2 D L2 U2 F2 U2 F U2 R2 D' B2 L F2 R' D'
10104 15-ene-2018 14:21:52 00:26.831 L2 B2 R2 D L2 D' L2 U R2 L2 D B R2 B2 U' R' D' F U R' F'
10103 15-ene-2018 14:21:03 00:25.856 L2 U B2 U R2 U' R2 U' B2 F2 U' R D R2 L2 F' L' D' R' F' R2 U'
10102 15-ene-2018 14:20:09 00:20.021 R2 F2 R2 L2 F2 D2 U' L2 B2 D U L B' F U' B' L U2 B D2 B
10101 15-ene-2018 14:19:22 00:24.815 F2 D F2 R2 D2 R2 D2 U L2 F2 U' L D B' F R B2 U' L F U
10100 15-ene-2018 14:18:33 00:26.383 F2 U2 B2 L2 D2 F2 L2 F2 U' L2 U' L B U2 R2 B' D2 L2 B' D F2 U2
10099 15-ene-2018 14:17:44 00:26.246 R2 U2 L2 D L2 D L2 D B2 D R2 B R2 F D L' D' F U' R L2 U'
10098 15-ene-2018 14:17:01 00:20.559 B2 L2 U' F2 D B2 R2 D' B2 R2 U L' F' U L D2 U B' D R' D U
10097 15-ene-2018 14:16:20 00:22.262 D' B2 F2 L2 D B2 U R2 D R2 U' B D2 R L' F R' F U R2 F' U'
10096 15-ene-2018 14:15:35 00:25.806 L2 U2 B2 U' L2 B2 L2 F2 D' R2 U L U2 F' L' B F2 R F' U' B'
10095 15-ene-2018 14:14:52 00:24.030 L2 B2 F2 U' B2 U L2 F2 U L2 U' R L' B D' R B2 R' B' F' L
10094 15-ene-2018 14:14:09 00:22.888 D B2 U' R2 F2 D L2 U2 F2 R2 U2 B' L2 F D B' R' U' R D2 L D'


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## newtonbase (Jan 15, 2018)

mark49152 said:


> I have 5 wing stickers I like to start a new cycle on, and I kind of keep a mental note which of those I have not yet seen. Then when I hit a break I can usually pick one of them quickly to restart on.


Which 5?

0/4 MBLD just now. Recall let me down especially on flips and concentration was appalling plus I completely forgot a corner memo. Chatty women at the next table didn't help.


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## Shaky Hands (Jan 15, 2018)

I thought I'd update on my own recent BLD exploits as that's pretty much all I've been practicing for the past 7-10 days since learning M2 to replace OP Edges.

I now have all of the M-slice algorithms and parity (edge-first) in muscle memory and can finger-trick most of them too. Most of my practice has been just doing the M2 portion of a BLD-solve as I know how to solve OP corners already and I want to focus what I'm practicing on. I haven't tracked my success rate but I reckon it's around 40% at the moment, with most mistakes coming from execution.

I don't time them all, but it looks like my PB for M2 edge-only memo and execution is 1:06.49 with R' D2 B2 U2 F2 R' U2 L2 R' U2 L B F2 L D' U' F' L B D' R2 Rw' Uw' (10 targets.) Again, this is just for edges before anyone thinks I'm doing insanely well!

Overall, I think it's going well. I know my memo speed is improving too. Other than the occasional MBLD, this is probably the first concentrated BLD practice I've done since April 2017 when I was working towards my first official 3BLD success for that month's comp.

I also watched a 4BLD tutorial and whilst I'm not planning on going down that route yet, at least I understood it.


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## mitja (Jan 15, 2018)

mark49152 said:


> I have 5 wing stickers I like to start a new cycle on, and I kind of keep a mental note which of those I have not yet seen. Then when I hit a break I can usually pick one of them quickly to restart on.


Ok, so yes a was trying to think the same. My No1. is always Target UB, then UL, UR, UF as I can move them to target and make 3-cycle, Then LB, RB which I can also move quickly to target, Then FU or. BD for that neat trick of yours from advanced M2. So I have to keep track on these, thanks. Another question, do you have any faster solution for U layer centres? I do all the letter pairs for centres in simple 3-cycle, but not those on U. With wings it is almost 90% of them, but the three U layer stickers for centres takes long Alg approach for me.


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## Jason Green (Jan 15, 2018)

newtonbase said:


> It's certainly preferred.


In all seriousness I'd rather have everyone on there so I know where I really stack up against everyone. 



SpartanSailor said:


> I tried practising blind today and it’s fun, but exhausting. I can’t just do it like normal solves (one right after the other...). After a few in a row I need to clear my head a little before I continue.
> 
> But I did get 7:45.221 for one practise run today—that is a good one for me. I think I spend almost 6 minutes to memo. Still using OP/OP and not very efficient, but it’s effective.


Yeah that's my problem, in addition for me I feel like I have to be "ready" to even start. Long day and I'm tired I can just sit down and do some normal practice to relax, but not so much with blind yet. 



newtonbase said:


> This site is nice for practicing memo
> http://tobip.ch/letter_pair_generator/


That's pretty cool thanks!


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## pglewis (Jan 15, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> [...] they used to get confused when my son got his check in stuff complete and I was standing there trying to check in as well. “Oh, you compete too?” Yes. Yes I do.



Yeah, unlike the UK contingent that descends en masse I'm fairly certain I've had a bare minimum of 15 years on any competitors at any of the comps I've attended around here so far, probably more than twenty years. I've gotten a lot of smiles and looks of surprise when parents see me with a competitor lanyard on. One of my missions at comps is to convince more parents to compete. I've discovered in conversation that a fair number actually know how to solve in the 1-3 min range and since they're gonna be there all day anyway they might as well sign up for 3x3 at least, and come nervously practice with the rest of us. 



Jason Green said:


> Yeah that's my problem, in addition for me I feel like I have to be "ready" to even start. Long day and I'm tired I can just sit down and do some normal practice to relax, but not so much with blind yet.



Yup, same as both of you. It takes a mental toll and I know I have to be "ready" to practice full blind solves. Of course, I still memo 3bld like I'm doing mbld, I can usually still remember my last memo 15 minutes later. That was improving a little when I tailed-off, at least.


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## newtonbase (Jan 15, 2018)

mitja said:


> Another question, do you have any faster solution for U layer centres? I do all the letter pairs for centres in simple 3-cycle, but not those on U. With wings it is almost 90% of them, but the three U layer stickers for centres takes long Alg approach for me.


What is your centres buffer and do you know/use U2 at all?


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## newtonbase (Jan 15, 2018)

pglewis said:


> Yeah, unlike the UK contingent that descends en masse I'm fairly certain I've had a bare minimum of 15 years on any competitors at any of the comps


I was the oldest by about 13 years at my first comp but then the Older Cubers scene had a mini explosion.


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## Logiqx (Jan 15, 2018)

muchacho said:


> Ao12 OH PB: 24.276 (was 24.896 from 2 weeks ago)



Nice times. I think my PB Ao12 is 24.76 from just before Christmas so our times are pretty close.

I've added 2016DUEH02 + 2017GRAD03 to the rankings.


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## mark49152 (Jan 15, 2018)

newtonbase said:


> Which 5?.


Speffz A, L, R, J, T. Sometimes B and D are better but the first 5 are habit.



mitja said:


> Another question, do you have any faster solution for U layer centres?


Yep, same trick as M2 slice targets. Like U p U p' U2 where p sets up an adjacent target. You can probably work it out from there


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## newtonbase (Jan 15, 2018)

mark49152 said:


> Speffz A, L, R, J, T. Sometimes B and D are better but the first 5 are habit.


They were my first guess but then I thought that you might do S and I for the advanced r2 moves. 

Which comps are the UK cubers going to if those announced so far. I'm booked for Manchester and should be good for High Wycombe. Wales is too far and not so keen on Guildford due to M25 and no 3BLD. Hoping to get to Peterborough if it doesn't clash with anything. It's close enough for a quick dash for favourite events.


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## Shaky Hands (Jan 15, 2018)

newtonbase said:


> Which comps are the UK cubers going to if those announced so far. I'm booked for Manchester and should be good for High Wycombe. Wales is too far and not so keen on Guildford due to M25 and no 3BLD. Hoping to get to Peterborough if it doesn't clash with anything. It's close enough for a quick dash for favourite events.



I'm going to everything I can (until I can't!) Aiming to keep my only cubing accomplishment going since my PB streak died at Worlds... https://jonatanklosko.github.io/wca_statistics/longest_streak_of_competitions_in_own_country


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## mitja (Jan 15, 2018)

newtonbase said:


> What is your centres buffer and do you know/use U2 at all?


Yes I use U2, buffer UBr, but try to solve two stickers at the time, it is 3-cycle. One sticker goes by setup to target, other gets solved and the fist one back with undo setup.


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## mitja (Jan 15, 2018)

mark49152 said:


> Speffz A, L, R, J, T. Sometimes B and D are better but the first 5 are habit.
> 
> 
> Yep, same trick as M2 slice targets. Like U p U p' U2 where p sets up an adjacent target. You can probably work it out from there


thanks i think I understand, I will try it.


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## newtonbase (Jan 15, 2018)

mitja said:


> thanks i think I understand, I will try it.


Mark's option is good for adjacent pieces and I'd stick with U2 for Ufl. Personally I use simple comms for adjacent centres. eg Ubr - Ubl - Fur is F' l F r' F' l' F r You can set up to these in no more than 2 moves I believe and they work on the D face too with a double slice move. They are easy to get used to. Just remember to solve the non U face piece first.


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## Logiqx (Jan 15, 2018)

newtonbase said:


> They were my first guess but then I thought that you might do S and I for the advanced r2 moves.
> 
> Which comps are the UK cubers going to if those announced so far. I'm booked for Manchester and should be good for High Wycombe. Wales is too far and not so keen on Guildford due to M25 and no 3BLD. Hoping to get to Peterborough if it doesn't clash with anything. It's close enough for a quick dash for favourite events.



I'm hoping to attend High Wycombe. I have clashes for everything else before that one.


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## mitja (Jan 15, 2018)

newtonbase said:


> Mark's option is good for adjacent pieces and I'd stick with U2 for Ufl. Personally I use simple comms for adjacent centres. eg Ubr - Ubl - Fur is F' l F r' F' l' F r You can set up to these in no more than 2 moves I believe and they work on the D face too with a double slice move. They are easy to get used to. Just remember to solve the non U face piece first.


I use U2 for UFl, yes. This example looks very nice that you gave me, but i dont fully understand the formula yet. I do understand Mark's U p U p' U2 formula. I just try to think about single movement of U. If U2 is on the end, then the U layer movement for that U p U p starts in target piece direction. So if Second piece is Ufr then above Formula works and if second piece is Ubl, then U' p U' p U2 works. And opposite if U2 is at the beginning then the U slice movment is away from target, so if the first piece is Ufr the formula is U2 p U' p U'. And for first Ubl it is U2 p U p U. Thats how I try to remember it. So it is 9-11 movement 3 cycle. Yours looks shorter ( 8 moves in your example), I will try to understand the system, thanks.


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## mitja (Jan 15, 2018)

newtonbase said:


> Ubr - Ubl - Fur is F' l F r' F' l' F r You can set up to these in no more than 2 moves I believe and they work on the D face too with a double slice move. They are easy to get used to. Just remember to solve the non U face piece first.


Do you always setup to Ful if the U layer piece is Ubl? What do you do for Ufr? Do you solve from the side ( and setup to Luf)or to Rdf ?


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## SpartanSailor (Jan 15, 2018)

Shaky Hands said:


> I thought I'd update on my own recent BLD exploits as that's pretty much all I've been practicing for the past 7-10 days since learning M2 to replace OP Edges.
> 
> I now have all of the M-slice algorithms and parity (edge-first) in muscle memory and can finger-trick most of them too. Most of my practice has been just doing the M2 portion of a BLD-solve as I know how to solve OP corners already and I want to focus what I'm practicing on. I haven't tracked my success rate but I reckon it's around 40% at the moment, with most mistakes coming from execution.
> 
> ...



I would think if you take OH seriously, you ought to be able to get Sub-24 by the end of the year.... especially given you’re certainly capable of sub-24.


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## SpartanSailor (Jan 15, 2018)

newtonbase said:


> I was the oldest by about 13 years at my first comp but then the Older Cubers scene had a mini explosion.



I’m pretty sure I had 20 years on the next oldest at my most recent comp this weekend... one kid seemed shocked that I had a few “nice” cubes and I said to him, “well, I’m an adult and don’t need my parents to buy me cubes.” He laughed. 

The “older” crowd at my comps seems to be a contingent from the University of Maryland. All undergrads, but definitely “old” by the otherwise typical standard of 12 and under. But they are pretty interesting guys and I enjoy the comps they put on.


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## SpartanSailor (Jan 15, 2018)

My BLD practise today just kind of happened. I was trying to unwind and didn’t feel up to the level of focus needed, so I drilled set-ups each piece one at a time. I think it’ll help my piece recognition and thereby my memo speed. But nevertheless, it’ll improve my execution and confidence. And it’s fairly mindless...


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## Shaky Hands (Jan 16, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> I would think if you take OH seriously, you ought to be able to get Sub-24 by the end of the year.... especially given you’re certainly capable of sub-24.



Unlikely, I suck real bad at OH, do almost no practice and my PB single at home is 35.87.


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## mitja (Jan 16, 2018)

mitja said:


> Do you always setup to Ful if the U layer piece is Ubl? What do you do for Ufr? Do you solve from the side ( and setup to Luf)or to Rdf ?


Don't know what I was thinking, you just gave me the switching comm, I get it.


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## openseas (Jan 16, 2018)

mitja said:


> Another question, do you have any faster solution for U layer centres? I do all the letter pairs for centres in simple 3-cycle, but not those on U. With wings it is almost 90% of them, but the three U layer stickers for centres takes long Alg approach for me.



For U layer, I close a cycle and then just do U or U' to float the buffer. For example, if your buffer is Ubl, and the next target is Ubr, I close a cycle and do U' so that Ubr becomes Ubl (a new buffer) and keep it as buffer until it closes its own new cycle then put it back (U) at the end.


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## newtonbase (Jan 16, 2018)

mitja said:


> Don't know what I was thinking, you just gave me the switching comm, I get it.


Yes. It's pretty easy. I set up wherever its easiest so might be the U face, the target or a rotation. 


openseas said:


> For U layer, I close a cycle and then just do U or U' to float the buffer. For example, if your buffer is Ubl, and the next target is Ubr, I close a cycle and do U' so that Ubr becomes Ubl (a new buffer) and keep it as buffer until it closes its own new cycle then put it back (U) at the end.


That's nice. I hadn't considered a U move to float the buffer but it makes a lot of sense. 
Do any of the top 3BLD guys who float buffers just set up to their normal buffer piece or do they all know multiple buffers now?


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## JohnnyReggae (Jan 16, 2018)

With all this talk of blind I would like to get back into blind solving. I started over a year ago and had limited success using OP because it's easy to learn. I didn't pursue it much because I'm terrible with making up word pairs or sentences and because of the number of possible word pairs there is just so much to try remember. I just felt overwhelmed. 

So please excuse my ignorance as I haven't paid any attention to the blind discussions you guys have been having because it has been like a jumbo jet going straight over my head. Should I start again with OP or go straight into using M2 ? I did briefly look at M2 over a year ago but found it confusing. Are there any resources that you would recommend I look at first ?


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## mark49152 (Jan 16, 2018)

newtonbase said:


> They were my first guess but then I thought that you might do S and I for the advanced r2 moves.
> 
> Which comps are the UK cubers going to if those announced so far. I'm booked for Manchester and should be good for High Wycombe. Wales is too far and not so keen on Guildford due to M25 and no 3BLD. Hoping to get to Peterborough if it doesn't clash with anything. It's close enough for a quick dash for favourite events.


I avoid S and I because if you start a cycle on one of those you need to solve it again at the end of the cycle, and might end up with a messier case.

I'm skipping Wales since there are a spate of UK comps coming up and I don't have enough brownie points to cover them all. Will try to make all others though.



newtonbase said:


> Mark's option is good for adjacent pieces and I'd stick with U2 for Ufl. Personally I use simple comms for adjacent centres. eg Ubr - Ubl - Fur is F' l F r' F' l' F r You can set up to these in no more than 2 moves I believe and they work on the D face too with a double slice move. They are easy to get used to. Just remember to solve the non U face piece first.


I tend to use and suggest the U2/U/U pattern because it uses the usual U2 style inserts, so is arguably easiest, at the cost of a single U2 move.

IMHO a good stepping stone from U2 towards full comms is to stick with exchanging on the U layer but insert to a piece adjacent to your buffer. It would require a setup for the case you gave, but an example for Ubr-Ubl-Ruf would be [l u l', U']. That's good because it's then a simple step to graduate to exchanging on a slice - e.g. Ubr-Ful-Ruf would be [l' U' l, u] which offers better move savings for adjacent side targets.

As with r2 and M2, the journey seems to be a continuum from (at the easy end) sticking to a simple, logical and consistent system that sacrifices a little move efficiency in favour of easy thinkahead and good flow, towards (at the difficult end) a complete set of speed optimal comms chosen independently for each individual case with no regard to organising them into a system. 

Generally centre comms are pretty easy though. It just depends where you like to be on the trade off between move efficiency and minimal thinking.

@JohnnyReggae: I recommend going straight for M2 and using Noah's tutorial, but make sure you can solve the cube with that method sighted before adding the complication of the blindfold.


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## newtonbase (Jan 16, 2018)

mark49152 said:


> IMHO a good stepping stone from U2 towards full comms is to stick with exchanging on the U layer but insert to a piece adjacent to your buffer. It would require a setup for the case you gave, but an example for Ubr-Ubl-Ruf would be [l u l', U']. That's good because it's then a simple step to graduate to exchanging on a slice - e.g. Ubr-Ful-Ruf would be [l' U' l, u] which offers better move savings for adjacent side targets.


I do quite a lot of centre comms in untimed solves (to the point where I forgot to just do U2 on a tricky one in 5BLD practice) and your example is a good one that I should do more of.


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## Jason Green (Jan 16, 2018)

JohnnyReggae said:


> With all this talk of blind I would like to get back into blind solving. I started over a year ago and had limited success using OP because it's easy to learn. I didn't pursue it much because I'm terrible with making up word pairs or sentences and because of the number of possible word pairs there is just so much to try remember. I just felt overwhelmed.
> 
> So please excuse my ignorance as I haven't paid any attention to the blind discussions you guys have been having because it has been like a jumbo jet going straight over my head. Should I start again with OP or go straight into using M2 ? I did briefly look at M2 over a year ago but found it confusing. Are there any resources that you would recommend I look at first ?


At this point I would say go straight to M2 as well. JPerm also has a good M2 video on YouTube. I know what you mean about the jet flying overhead, that's still how I feel with all the big blind stuff right now.


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## pglewis (Jan 16, 2018)

JohnnyReggae said:


> Should I start again with OP or go straight into using M2 ? I did briefly look at M2 over a year ago but found it confusing. Are there any resources that you would recommend I look at first ?



I went straight for M2 without learning OP edges and if I can learn basic M2 execution in a couple days then anyone in this thread probably can . The setups are mostly very intuitive, ignoring the M slice targets. I didn't even worry about memorizing the exceptions initially, I did my execution learning with a cheat sheet; there are only a couple and they were easy to commit to memory once the mechanics were understood. 

I learned from Noah's vids; JPerm is always great and he has one on M2 now as well. I highly suggest tracing and solving 2 edges at a time for sighted M2 execution practice/learning due to the quirk of the M slice being flipped on even targets. 

Ask about anything specific that's confusing.


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## openseas (Jan 16, 2018)

newtonbase said:


> That's nice. I hadn't considered a U move to float the buffer but it makes a lot of sense.
> Do any of the top 3BLD guys who float buffers just set up to their normal buffer piece or do they all know multiple buffers now?



Gianfranco & Daniel, they float buffer. Jeff does only in a certain case when he used DF buffer (now he switched to UF, completely)


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## mitja (Jan 16, 2018)

JohnnyReggae said:


> Should I start again with OP or go straight into using M2 ? I did briefly look at M2 over a year ago but found it confusing. Are there any resources that you would recommend I look at first ?



I started blind a little more then a year ago and went straight for M2. I also learned from Noah and from Zane's M2 guide here:


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## h2f (Jan 17, 2018)

newtonbase said:


> Do any of the top 3BLD guys who float buffers just set up to their normal buffer piece or do they all know multiple buffers now?



I was analyzing only some of their solves but it looks like few buffers.


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## JohnnyReggae (Jan 17, 2018)

pglewis said:


> I went straight for M2 without learning OP edges and if I can learn basic M2 execution in a couple days then anyone in this thread probably can . The setups are mostly very intuitive, ignoring the M slice targets. I didn't even worry about memorizing the exceptions initially, I did my execution learning with a cheat sheet; there are only a couple and they were easy to commit to memory once the mechanics were understood.
> 
> I learned from Noah's vids; JPerm is always great and he has one on M2 now as well. I highly suggest tracing and solving 2 edges at a time for sighted M2 execution practice/learning due to the quirk of the M slice being flipped on even targets.
> 
> Ask about anything specific that's confusing.


I did have a look at J-Perm's M2 video yesterday and he does explain things quite nicely and it does make sense. I just need to get used to the Speffz notation because when I first learnt blind I followed SpeedCubeReview's method which used a different lettering scheme. I do want to follow Speffz because it is the standard. Pity I didn't know that back then.

I tried a few sighted solves using OP yesterday just to try get used to Speffz and to see if I could still do it. 1 out of 3 is not great. My problem was identifying the wrong position on a couple pieces in the 2 that failed.

Thanks for the pointers guys I really do appreciate it


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## openseas (Jan 17, 2018)

JohnnyReggae said:


> I did have a look at J-Perm's M2 video yesterday and he does explain things quite nicely and it does make sense. I just need to get used to the Speffz notation because when I first learnt blind I followed SpeedCubeReview's method which used a different lettering scheme. I do want to follow Speffz because it is the standard. Pity I didn't know that back then.
> 
> I tried a few sighted solves using OP yesterday just to try get used to Speffz and to see if I could still do it. 1 out of 3 is not great. My problem was identifying the wrong position on a couple pieces in the 2 that failed.
> 
> Thanks for the pointers guys I really do appreciate it


 
I also started with M2/OP, J-perm's video was very helpful. Both Shawn (SpeedCubeReview) & Dylan (J-perm) are great but Dylan appears to have a better understanding of the cube, algorithm and grips, so better when you want to step up your game whereas Shawn is more suitable for beginners (some of his recommendations are not good for those who want to improve beyond intermediate phase).


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## mitja (Jan 17, 2018)

JohnnyReggae said:


> I do want to follow Speffz because it is the standard. Pity I didn't know that back then.


For helper, just take some old cube and write letters on it, or take a cube box and put letters on it. I never regret to have my own scheme, it is of no importance. To me, it was important to use usable letter, that means, to throw the difficult ones into the buffer, because they won't be used. Also, I use my language and it has few different letters that are very useful to my memo. What I noticed is, that even if lots of people use speffz, they change some detail someware, switch two letters, go CCW or follow the faces differently. On the end, when I try to read other pople experiences, there is only few that strictly follow speffz. So, I need to think from scratch anyway.


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## JohnnyReggae (Jan 17, 2018)

openseas said:


> I also started with M2/OP, J-perm's video was very helpful. Both Shawn (SpeedCubeReview) & Dylan (J-perm) are great but Dylan appears to have a better understanding of the cube, algorithm and grips, so better when you want to step up your game whereas Shawn is more suitable for beginners (some of his recommendations are not good for those who want to improve beyond intermediate phase).


I do need to give Shawn some kudos for his blind solving video that I initially learnt from because he explained it so simply that I understood it. I did look at Noah's videos at the time and to be honest I found them extremely boring and long. So much so that I switched off watching them. At least with Shawn's I grasped the concept and could actually do a full blind solve after a short time.

J-Perm (Dylan) has a great way of explaining things and I do agree that he seems to have a better understanding of the cube and algorithms. I enjoy watching both their videos and have subscribed to both.


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## newtonbase (Jan 17, 2018)

JohnnyReggae said:


> I tried a few sighted solves using OP yesterday just to try get used to Speffz and to see if I could still do it. 1 out of 3 is not great. My problem was identifying the wrong position on a couple pieces in the 2 that failed.


Nothing wrong with 1/3. We all identify pieces wrongly sometimes. I'm a fan of marking up a cube with your letter scheme when practicing and keeping it to the side for reference.

Floating buffers on 3BLD does look interesting. If you start a new cycle on a sticker that's one move from your buffer like DR or DL just set it up the buffer and save 12 moves. Downsides would be having another piece on that face affected by the setup to account for. Also, if the cycle ends on a different sticker (RD or LD) then you have a flipped edge to fix. Fortunately you know about these issues before you execute so you can just solve normally if you wish. I need to have a play with this.
EDIT: there are going to be issues if the break is after an odd number of targets so it's less useful than I'd thought.


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## SpartanSailor (Jan 17, 2018)

Last night I was playing around with my skewb and 2x2... haven't done much of either in a bit. Then switched to 3x3 for a few quick goes. Shocked myself with a 17.77--both a PB and the 1st time I went sub-18! It was just a single, but I was pretty excited. 

Okay, back to your regularly scheduled programs... LOL


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## newtonbase (Jan 17, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> Last night I was playing around with my skewb and 2x2... haven't done much of either in a bit. Then switched to 3x3 for a few quick goes. Shocked myself with a 17.77--both a PB and the 1st time I went sub-18! It was just a single, but I was pretty excited.
> 
> Okay, back to your regularly scheduled programs... LOL


Well done. 

Finally didn't screw up MBLD practice. 4/4 in 17:51. 12:37 memo is reasonable but 5:14 is my execution PB and the overall time is PB for all attempts including failures. Did nothing fancy.

I'm now going to spend 20 mins trying to get a new 3BLD PB as feeling good.


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## Jason Green (Jan 17, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> Last night I was playing around with my skewb and 2x2... haven't done much of either in a bit. Then switched to 3x3 for a few quick goes. Shocked myself with a 17.77--both a PB and the 1st time I went sub-18! It was just a single, but I was pretty excited.
> 
> Okay, back to your regularly scheduled programs... LOL


I've found you have to share all PBs here or it's bad luck. . Nice job!


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## One Wheel (Jan 17, 2018)

Jason Green said:


> I've found you have to share all PBs here or it's bad luck. . Nice job!


Hmm, I've found the opposite. I've had some pretty nice runs on 4, 5, and 7 since posting my 6x6 single, but not a lot of progress on 6x6 .
Let's test it: I got a 2:09.xx 5x5 single yesterday, as part of a 2:29.xx Ao12.


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## newtonbase (Jan 17, 2018)

1:20.08 3BLD PB. 6/12.


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## SpartanSailor (Jan 17, 2018)

One Wheel said:


> Hmm, I've found the opposite. I've had some pretty nice runs on 4, 5, and 7 since posting my 6x6 single, but not a lot of progress on 6x6 .
> Let's test it: I got a 2:09.xx 5x5 single yesterday, as part of a 2:29.xx Ao12.



I certainly don't wish to jinx anything! I shared it with my wife and she said, "is that fast?"


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## mark49152 (Jan 17, 2018)

newtonbase said:


> 1:20.08 3BLD PB. 6/12.


Very nice, and nice MBLD too. You are breathing down my neck! Are you still using pure M2/OP? What comms or tricks?


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## mitja (Jan 17, 2018)

newtonbase said:


> 1:20.08 3BLD PB. 6/12.


Well, thats fast, is there any 3-cycle in there? Great


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## newtonbase (Jan 17, 2018)

mark49152 said:


> Very nice, and nice MBLD too. You are breathing down my neck! Are you still using pure M2/OP? What comms or tricks?





mitja said:


> Well, thats fast, is there any 3-cycle in there? Great


I can't remember what I actually used in this solve. There were a couple of easy corner comm pairs there but I often bottle them at speed as I'm not confident.
In relaxed solves I use all the Advanced M2 stuff with lots of tricks and maybe 50% comms as I'm trying to learn them.


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## h2f (Jan 17, 2018)

newtonbase said:


> In relaxed solves I use all the Advanced M2 stuff with lots of tricks and maybe 50% comms as I'm trying to learn them.



Awsome!


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## pglewis (Jan 17, 2018)

Everyone is on fire! Big congrats to @newtonbase on a really good day.


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## pglewis (Jan 17, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> Shocked myself with a 17.77--both a PB and the 1st time I went sub-18! It was just a single, but I was pretty excited.



You're a lot more consistent than I and you're clearly faster officially... I'm surprised you haven't hit a faster outlier yet (I'm on the lookout for a lucky sub 16 or better). Checking my notes, my current 16.88 single from Sept was an OLL skip + Ra and I've also had a 17.72 with a PLL skip and one beautiful 17.85 full-step. 

Also, and I have nothing other than superstition for this, it seems like every time I do focused 3bld practice and return to regular 3x3 I'm magically a little faster.


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## SpartanSailor (Jan 17, 2018)

pglewis said:


> You're a lot more consistent than I and you're clearly faster officially... I'm surprised you haven't hit a faster outlier yet (I'm on the lookout for a lucky sub 16 or better). Checking my notes, my current 16.88 single from Sept was an OLL skip + Ra and I've also had a 17.72 with a PLL skip and one beautiful 17.85 full-step.
> 
> Also, and I have nothing other than superstition for this, it seems like every time I do focused 3bld practice and return to regular 3x3 I'm magically a little faster.



That was full step... not that 17s is terribly impressive on the grand stage for a full-step solve. However, my previous 18.xx PB stood since June. I've had a few 18s and 19s, but 7 months.... seemed like 17 was never going to happen. Of course, a random fast one isn't my focus. I'd like to really get my average down closer to 20 (sub-20) consistently. Right now, I'd say I'm a 25 second solver... that my official average and I just hit sub-25 3 weeks in a row over on another thread, but globally I'm still in the 25 range. Slow and steady progress. As long as I'm having fun... but I AM keen on the 3BLD stuff and will be keeping a watchful eye out for any comps that offer 3BLD within driving distance of my house!


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## pglewis (Jan 17, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> That was full step... not that 17s is terribly impressive on the grand stage for a full-step solve. However, my previous 18.xx PB stood since June. I've had a few 18s and 19s, but 7 months.... seemed like 17 was never going to happen. Of course, a random fast one isn't my focus. I'd like to really get my average down closer to 20 (sub-20) consistently. Right now, I'd say I'm a 25 second solver... that my official average and I just hit sub-25 3 weeks in a row over on another thread, but globally I'm still in the 25 range. Slow and steady progress. As long as I'm having fun... but I AM keen on the 3BLD stuff and will be keeping a watchful eye out for any comps that offer 3BLD within driving distance of my house!



You can bet a 17 will still get _my_ blood pumping. I'm basically in the same boat... about 3 seconds slower but hoping my current tinkering lands me sub 25 globally and flirting with sub 20s more often. I'm at that stage where my potential has improved and I can threaten my shorter averages and single if I hit a good spell but still too many high 20s / low 30s and disaster solves (usually mis-solved F2L pairs trying to look-ahead more).


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## SpartanSailor (Jan 17, 2018)

pglewis said:


> You can bet a 17 will still get _my_ blood pumping. I'm basically in the same boat... about 3 seconds slower but hoping my current tinkering lands me sub 25 globally and flirting with sub 20s more often. I'm at that stage where my potential has improved and I can threaten my shorter averages and single if I hit a good spell but still too many high 20s / low 30s and disaster solves (usually mis-solved F2L pairs trying to look-ahead more).


EXACTLY the same for me... sometimes I get excited and mess up my PLL or OLL and it becomes so jacked up I'm essentially resolving F2L pairs to fix it. ugh


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## JohnnyReggae (Jan 17, 2018)

Not sure if you guys have the same experience .... I find that I get stuck at a certain time range for a while and then suddenly I'm solving at a second or more less without any change in what I'm doing. Things just start to "click" in a way. I've been stuck at the 16/17 range for the last few months and in the last couple days the 14's have been flowing quite easily without me trying anything different.

On further inspection my look ahead appears to be working a little better. Not paying attention to the pairs I'm trying to solve seems to be what is happening. However when I actively try not to focus on that the exact opposite seems to happen 

@Selkie ... is my inspiration with this ... your solves seem so effortless ... I need to try tune my mind out more  and rely on the subconscious ...


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## openseas (Jan 17, 2018)

newtonbase said:


> I can't remember what I actually used in this solve. There were a couple of easy corner comm pairs there but I often bottle them at speed as I'm not confident.
> In relaxed solves I use all the Advanced M2 stuff with lots of tricks and maybe 50% comms as I'm trying to learn them.



Great time! Do you use OP for the rest of 50% when you don't use comms?
I wanted to move away from OP - that's why I'm trying to going through orozco (it will take 21 different orozco paths to complete the whole 3 cycle corners) but not sure mixing with OP will be better way?


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## CLL Smooth (Jan 17, 2018)

Hello all, I’m drinking and that’s why I’m here. This is the equivalent of the speed solving bar, right? @JohnnyReggae we seem to be about the same speed, although I’ve been stuck there for a few years... despite having at least a half dozen sub-15 Ao12s and two sub-16 Ao100s I don’t think I really practice enough to improve. Or maybe I just don’t practice enough sober. Regardless, one of the first things I always notice when I start to really improve is noticing how many mistakes I make, while still getting “normal” times.
The rest of you, keep the blind talk to a minimum. There’s a thread for that. I joke. Happy New Year!


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## SpartanSailor (Jan 17, 2018)

JohnnyReggae said:


> Not sure if you guys have the same experience .... I find that I get stuck at a certain time range for a while and then suddenly I'm solving at a second or more less without any change in what I'm doing. Things just start to "click" in a way. I've been stuck at the 16/17 range for the last few months and in the last couple days the 14's have been flowing quite easily without me trying anything different.
> 
> On further inspection my look ahead appears to be working a little better. Not paying attention to the pairs I'm trying to solve seems to be what is happening. However when I actively try not to focus on that the exact opposite seems to happen
> 
> @Selkie ... is my inspiration with this ... your solves seem so effortless ... I need to try tune my mind out more  and rely on the subconscious ...



That seems to be my experience as well... I feel like I just made a sudden improvement by a couple seconds over the holidays or somewhat recently.


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## SpartanSailor (Jan 17, 2018)

CLL Smooth said:


> Hello all, I’m drinking and that’s why I’m here. This is the equivalent of the speed solving bar, right? @JohnnyReggae we seem to be about the same speed, although I’ve been stuck there for a few years... despite having at least a half dozen sub-15 Ao12s and two sub-16 Ao100s I don’t think I really practice enough to improve. Or maybe I just don’t practice enough sober. Regardless, one of the first things I always notice when I start to really improve is noticing how many mistakes I make, while still getting “normal” times.
> The rest of you, keep the blind talk to a minimum. There’s a thread for that. I joke. Happy New Year!



I “felt” like I knew I had made some improvement because I was “making all kind of errors” and still getting better than my previous average... so... yeah, speedsolving bar is now open! Lol


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## newtonbase (Jan 17, 2018)

openseas said:


> Great time! Do you use OP for the rest of 50% when you don't use comms?
> I wanted to move away from OP - that's why I'm trying to going through orozco (it will take 21 different orozco paths to complete the whole 3 cycle corners) but not sure mixing with OP will be better way?


OP is definitely my default but I just try and add in comms where I can. I'd drill them if I had more dedicated practice time. I don't know anything about Orozco.


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## openseas (Jan 17, 2018)

newtonbase said:


> OP is definitely my default but I just try and add in comms where I can. I'd drill them if I had more dedicated practice time. I don't know anything about Orozco.



It's using comms but solving targets one at a time (keep circulating one target = you need to know comms from one sticker to the rest = 18). Links are:

https://www.speedsolving.com/wiki/index.php/Orozco_method

https://www.speedsolving.com/forum/threads/how-the-orozco-bld-method-works.60487/


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## Jason Green (Jan 18, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> EXACTLY the same for me... sometimes I get excited and mess up my PLL or OLL and it becomes so jacked up I'm essentially resolving F2L pairs to fix it. ugh


I delete those super jacked up solves unless I'm trying to count an average of 100 or something which is rare. This is in the category of things I repeat here periodically.  Anyway, I don't want to know my average counting those, I want to know what it is without them. Because in comp I just won't let it happen more than once in an average. So far that's held pretty true, and even if it doesn't oh well.


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## h2f (Jan 18, 2018)

openseas said:


> but not sure mixing with OP will be better way?



I was mixing OP with comms when I was learning it. The same as mixing M2 and adv M2 with edge comms. There's few tutorial which show how to step from begginers method to comms but the essence is: mix both.


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## mark49152 (Jan 18, 2018)

h2f said:


> I was mixing OP with comms when I was learning it. The same as mixing M2 and adv M2 with edge comms. There's few tutorial which show how to step from begginers method to comms but the essence is: mix both.


I also tried to mix but found it difficult. The essence of OP is brainless spamming and no pauses, so I rarely thought to insert a comm, even an easy one. The change came when I accepted the slowdown and tried to solve using all comms. Once I started thinking of comms first, and resorting to OP when stuck, it got easier.


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## newtonbase (Jan 18, 2018)

mark49152 said:


> I also tried to mix but found it difficult. The essence of OP is brainless spamming and no pauses, so I rarely thought to insert a comm, even an easy one. The change came when I accepted the slowdown and tried to solve using all comms. Once I started thinking of comms first, and resorting to OP when stuck, it got easier.


I try to think about comms at memo stage in the hope that it will trigger something when I'm executing.


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## newtonbase (Jan 18, 2018)

Closest 4BLD attempt yet. Missed a corner twist in memo (amateur!) and a mystery 3 cycle on wings. Tired but got time for another try.


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## newtonbase (Jan 18, 2018)

Dear God. Finished 2nd attempt. Was quick but wings were a complete mess. Took me a good 20s to realise that I hadn't executed them. An error on centres meant it would have been DNF anyway.


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## One Wheel (Jan 18, 2018)

I just want to make some public goals for my competition this weekend, so I can't walk them back later. 1 = easy, 2 = match my at-home times, 3 = pie-in-the-sky, what-are-you-smoking. 

4x4:
1. Official average (1:45 cutoff)
2. Sub-1:30 average
3. Sub-1:10 single

5x5:
1. Sub-3:10 average (3:30 cutoff)
2. Sub-2:45 average
3. Sub-2:30 average, with sub-2:00 single

6x6:
1. Official single (6:00 time limit)
2. Official mean (5:00 cutoff)
3. Sub-4:30 official mean, with sub-4:00 single

7x7:
1. Official single (10:00 time limit)
2. Sub-7:45 mean (8:00 cutoff)
3. Sub-7:00 mean

Megaminx:
1. Official single (4:00 time limit)
2. Sub-3:10 single
3. Official average (2:30 cutoff, pb single is 2:41 according to cstimer, I thought I had a 2:24 sometime)


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## pglewis (Jan 18, 2018)

One Wheel said:


> I just want to make some public goals for my competition this weekend [...]



Here's to a smooth comp and a pile of PBs! 



SpartanSailor said:


> [...] Of course, a random fast one isn't my focus. [...]



Yeah, I'm primarily focused on nudging the average down but I've grown to love outliers. Shortly after I first cracked the sub-30 barrier I got a 22.x that made me think "timer malfunction" for a moment. I could have told myself, intellectually, that I had all the tools to get a 22... but actually seeing one does something to my mental attitude and raises the bar more than I otherwise would. 

When I'm warmed up and looking ahead it seems like 23s are the new norm for me now; 23.5 * .6 (rough "outlier factor") = 14.1, so a lucky sub 16 (or even sub 15) isn't crazy. But until I see one on my StackMat display it feels really crazy.


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## SpartanSailor (Jan 18, 2018)

Started timing myself more with 3BLD. Just to add a little more pressure... it worked. Kept making errors.


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## h2f (Jan 18, 2018)

I've put in a Bld Accoplishment thread - my first ao5 sub1 in 3bld. Previous was 1:00.xx. But the thing is I couldnt practice for a month because of squized finger. After 40 solves it looks like I'm back. During the brake I've reviewed all my corner comms. Most of new ones i've copied from Ishaan's sheet.


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## SpartanSailor (Jan 19, 2018)

h2f said:


> I've put in a Bld Accoplishment thread - my first ao5 sub1 in 3bld. Previous was 1:00.xx. But the thing is I couldnt practice for a month because of squized finger. After 40 solves it looks like I'm back. During the brake I've reviewed all my corner comms. Most of new ones i've copied from Ishaan's sheet.


Very nicely done!


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## Selkie (Jan 19, 2018)

PB and first sub 14 ao12:-

Average of 12: 13.95
1. 15.10 F2 D2 B' U2 R2 F' U2 B' U2 L2 B' R F' L2 U2 L' D F U2 F U 
2. (16.92) U' B R F U2 D' R2 U' L F D2 R2 B2 D' B2 D2 R2 U R2 L2 
3. 13.37 R2 D R2 B2 R2 F2 D B2 R2 D2 U R' B' D B U F R2 D' R B' 
4. (12.72) L2 U L2 U' R2 F2 U2 R2 F2 U L2 R' D L' F' D B2 R' D2 U R' 
5. 13.17 D2 R2 D' B2 U L2 B2 L2 D2 F2 L B L' D2 F2 U L2 B L F' D 
6. 13.81 U2 F' D2 B2 R2 D2 R2 U2 R2 F' D' L2 B' D2 F2 R F2 D' U' 
7. 14.08 U2 F' D' L' B' R B2 U' F' B L' F2 L' D2 R' F2 D2 L' B2 L2 U2 
8. 14.06 F2 U F2 D' B2 U' F2 D' R2 B2 D2 L' F D' L B U2 R2 F' D2 
9. 13.60 R2 B2 F' L2 B2 D2 R2 D2 F U2 F' U' B F U' R' B' D' B F2 
10. 13.71 F2 R2 D2 B2 D L2 D L2 F2 U2 F2 R' D' L2 B2 R2 B D' R' D' R' 
11. 14.93 U F2 L2 D' B2 F2 U F2 D' F2 L F D R' D' B F R' B D F' 
12. 13.69 U' D' L2 B2 R F L' B' D F R2 U2 L2 F' R2 U2 F U2 F L2


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## Shaky Hands (Jan 19, 2018)

Excellent stuff @Selkie. I'm really happy for you mate.


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## SpartanSailor (Jan 19, 2018)

Selkie said:


> PB and first sub 14 ao12:-
> 
> Average of 12: 13.95
> 1. 15.10 F2 D2 B' U2 R2 F' U2 B' U2 L2 B' R F' L2 U2 L' D F U2 F U
> ...


Good work!


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## pglewis (Jan 19, 2018)

BTW for anyone around my stage of F2L or looking for more advanced F2L cases than the usual last slot lists, JPerm has compiled an awesome list. This is gold (link to a PDF in the description):


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## Jason Green (Jan 19, 2018)

pglewis said:


> BTW for anyone around my stage of F2L or looking for more advanced F2L cases than the usual last slot lists, JPerm has compiled an awesome list. This is gold (link to a PDF in the description):


Yes I subscribe to him so I saw this. It's a great PDF. I find it difficult to try and include some of the advanced F2L algs I've seen, or maybe it's just me being lazy. Although I would say a majority of my cases match the best cubers on walk through solves I have seen.


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## pglewis (Jan 20, 2018)

Jason Green said:


> Yes I subscribe to him so I saw this. It's a great PDF. I find it difficult to try and include some of the advanced F2L algs I've seen, or maybe it's just me being lazy. Although I would say a majority of my cases match the best cubers on walk through solves I have seen.



It's definitely a longer term, slow digestion reference for me. I don't think I could absorb more than one or two new useful things at a time as far as working them into timed solves. It's perfect timing for me because this is something I was going to dig into on my own otherwise and I've been looking for a similar list for ages. Most of the last slot cases are solid for me, including variations for whether or not I want to flip the edge that's in the slot... yet I even picked up a couple tricks that are new to me there. 

In figuring out my personal recipe to sub 20 from here, some common culprits for my slower times in no particular order:

*) Botched an established LL alg. 
*) OLL recog/AUF pause. Expected and known it'll linger for a while, steadily fixing itself the usual way
*) Botched F2L pair(s) (missolved trying to look ahead, misidentified the target slot)

Those above aren't a major concern and fall under "practice and don't do that" 

*) Bad F2L lookahead

Spotty, difficult to predict, difficult to fix simply by concentrating. Spamming is all I know to do here, however I'm beginning to suspect that at my peak my problem is much less about lookahead and more about:

*) Bad F2L _recognition_
*) Exception F2L cases and angles. One goofy case I'm not fully prepared for can easily eat 2-5 seconds. 

It seems silly that it has taken me so long to realize this but as my lookahead improves I'm exposing a serious bottleneck recognizing the case and target slot location quickly. Serious focus on these may benefit me more than better lookahead. 

These are where JPerm's list may do wonders. I don't see myself attacking it the same way I would most algsets. Just stop and examine every case that trips me up in a real solve, those that happen most frequently will get fixed through repetition and self-defense against continually looking them up. 

*) Slow or botched cross 

I keep pushing off cross exercises but it'll be magic for my averages when I get to it. The one common factor in all my best solves: cross was smooth and quick.


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## Shaky Hands (Jan 20, 2018)

Well done @One Wheel - lots of PB's - http://cubecomps.com/live.php?cid=2812&compid=10


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## Logiqx (Jan 20, 2018)

I missed a perfectly good opportunity for my first sub-10 yesterday.

It was a nice flowing cross+2 followed by a 2 second pause (I got excited and lost my focus), OLL skip then a J-Perm. Time... 10.8s

Doh!


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## Shaky Hands (Jan 20, 2018)

Ouch Mike! That must hurt. 10.8 still sounds great to me. What's your PB single on 3x3 at home?


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## pglewis (Jan 20, 2018)

Logiqx said:


> I missed a perfectly good opportunity for my first sub-10 yesterday.
> 
> It was a nice flowing cross+2 followed by a 2 second pause (I got excited and lost my focus), OLL skip then a J-Perm. Time... 10.8s
> 
> Doh!



I feel your pain, I had a shoulda-coulda 18-flat full step two days ago (quite good for me). Nothing really lucky other than not being unlucky but then I misread a U Perm as H. Saw it immediately after it was too late to abort, stopped the timer and took a DNF anyway 'cause I wanted to know. 

If you were that close once we know you can do it again, at least.


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## One Wheel (Jan 20, 2018)

Shaky Hands said:


> Well done @One Wheel - lots of PB's - http://cubecomps.com/live.php?cid=2812&compid=10



2:30 5x5 was a +2. Megaminx I DNFd the first solve because I glanced at the timer as I started the last layer at 2:15, and thought I might get an average. 7x7 DNF was about 10:02, with the worst pop I've had in quite a while.


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## newtonbase (Jan 22, 2018)

Latest 4BLD. Took an age memoing wings as kept losing track only to twist my last corner the wrong way. Memo and recall were perfect but my brain said do it ccw when it was cw.


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## Shaky Hands (Jan 22, 2018)

So close @newtonbase. Good effort pal.


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## openseas (Jan 22, 2018)

@newtonbase / you're getting there!


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## mark49152 (Jan 22, 2018)

Nice job Mark! You were so close.


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## newtonbase (Jan 22, 2018)

Thanks all. Frustrating that it was such a silly error. I had it memo'd as an image and I remembered it visually but somehow thought it needed to go the other way. I'll get it soon.


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## SpartanSailor (Jan 22, 2018)

newtonbase said:


> Latest 4BLD. Took an age memoing wings as kept losing track only to twist my last corner the wrong way. Memo and recall were perfect but my brain said do it ccw when it was cw.
> View attachment 8832



That's impressive.


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## Mike Hughey (Jan 22, 2018)

newtonbase said:


> Latest 4BLD. Took an age memoing wings as kept losing track only to twist my last corner the wrong way. Memo and recall were perfect but my brain said do it ccw when it was cw.


Ouch! At least now you know you can truly do this. That was just bad luck. You'll get it next time!


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## Selkie (Jan 22, 2018)

@newtonbase - Oh wow, so damn close mate. Next one for sure!

@Logiqx - Nearly all my nearly sub 10s before I got a sub 10 I panicked. They are like buses mate, you'll wait ages for the first one and they'll all arrive together! 

OH practice going quite well, think I am sub 35 globally. PB's are single: 19.60, ao5 30.22 and 31.xy ao12. Still need to relearn about 8 OH OLLs though. I have even learned OH specific PLLs for F, H, E.

Been trying to get a 7x7 solve under 5 minutes on film for a couple of weeks now having about 6 un-filmed ones. At last managed this 4:53.58 single earlier today:-






Really looking forward to Welsh Open this weekend though I will only be there on the Sunday.


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## newtonbase (Jan 22, 2018)

Mike Hughey said:


> Ouch! At least now you know you can truly do this. That was just bad luck. You'll get it next time!


Hoping to get one by the end of the week. Then I need to get 5BLD sorted for a comp on 17th-18th Feb


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## pglewis (Jan 22, 2018)

Yesterday was one of _those_ days... never seemed to get warmed up during my practice session and more than half my solves included stupid mistakes. If it can be messed up, I managed it. 

Mixed-in with that mess was a 17.83 full step though. Two "magic" F2L pairs; I solved the first pair and was completely stunned that 3 were solved. I tried reproducing it just to see how it happened but couldn't. I rarely bother scrambling from WCA orientation so I assumed yellow top, which is most likely. Must have been a mis-scramble, scrambled in some random orientation, or I just couldn't reproduce the cross/first pair.


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## pglewis (Jan 24, 2018)

Best accomplishment today by far... (maybe it just needs magnets)


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## phreaker (Jan 24, 2018)

pglewis said:


> Best accomplishment today by far... (maybe it just needs magnets)
> 
> View attachment 8837



I'm amazed your wrists survived .


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## SpartanSailor (Jan 24, 2018)

I’ve been playing with my megaminx recently... I jumped into the forum comp and tried to do everything I could... I’m rediculously slow with the megaminx, but I’m still enjoying it. I didn’t expect to enjoy it that much.


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## pglewis (Jan 24, 2018)

File this one under missed opportunity with the camera running. Ignoring my usual F2L pauses and the OLL recog pause... the real pain here is I used four seconds of inspection time, saw my cross solution and took off. Two pairs were made while solving the cross, one of which was right in front of me but I finished the cross then had to take that pair right back out. I clobbered the other pair solving the first but then had green/orange pair up right in front of me. A case of more wealth than I knew what to do with. Just a few more seconds looking deeper in inspection could have made this so much faster. 






L F2 L D2 R D2 R' D2 B2 F' R2 U2 F' U B2 U' L R F

Scramble from your favorite orientation and enjoy


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## Jason Green (Jan 24, 2018)

I did several untimed blind solves tonight and it seemed less "taxing" than normal blind practice. I have done very little untimed blind practice, but this got me thinking maybe it's just as important as with other events. I was developing some theories on why this would be. I think it's for different reasons, partially at least, than sighted untimed practice. I played with cubes as a kid as I've said before, would solve one face and that was about it. But I spent a lot of time just fiddling with the cube, seeing what I could make it do, etc. When I learned to solve at first I never thought of trying to get fast. Then when I got into speed solving a couple of years ago pretty soon I wanted to start watching my times. I've never been one to do much untimed practice some of you may remember. But in reality I've had years of exposure to the puzzle and getting used to it gradually.

So blind in one sense is a whole different thing. Sure there are algs to learn for M2 or whatever, but I have virtually no life experience trying to memorize pairs of letter sets together, let alone quickly. When I started learning blind I treated it like I did getting into speed solving. I wanted to quickly start watching my times go down. And of course they did to some extent, but I have been very unmotivated to spend much time practicing due to the amount of energy I feel it requires. So I'm theorizing that a big part of that is due to it being so different than anything I've done. Maybe I'm just stating the obvious? 

Anyway, what are your thoughts on untimed blind practice, especially for a newbie? The biggest thing to me is if I can figure out some way to get myself practicing more it will be the biggest benefit, even if it's just a mental trick I'm playing on myself!


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## Ander (Jan 24, 2018)

MarcelP said:


> Hi Guys,
> My name is Marcel, 42 years old. I have learned to solve the cube at age 11 - 12 or so. I had not touched a cube a maybe 15 - 20 years. A few weeks ago I solved a cube and found it very nice to see that I still knew how to do that. When I looked at youtube I found amazing stuff from you speedsolvers. I thought it was the most amazing thing I have ever seen. I solved the cube in a layer by layer which could take up to 10 minutes. My goal is to get below one minute. Right now I have not focussed on OLL and PLL. I just need to get the 2FL much quicker. I recon in a few weeks times must be a lot better.
> Cheers!



Wow, this is a weirdly parallel experience. I too am 42, I cubed a little when I was very young, but never managed to learn the method. I started again in December when my company gifted each of the employees with a cube, have since gotten a better cube, and am now getting close to one minute, which was my target when I decided to start. I wonder what times is the OP now getting after all this time!


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## muchacho (Jan 24, 2018)

18-19 seconds, but I think he is not cubing much lately.

Welcome!


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## mark49152 (Jan 24, 2018)

@Jason Green : To my mind, untimed practice is similar for blind as for anything else. There's no point trying to get fast at something until you're competent at it.

I do quite a lot of untimed practice when I'm trying to work something new into my solves, like changes to my memo system or new sets of comms. If I time myself then I don't try those new things and just revert to the solutions I already know, because that's faster.

Sometimes I'll do a timed session and if the opportunity comes up to do something new that I'm learning, like a new comm I'm hesitant on, I'll mentally write off that solve as untimed and try the new comm. Then delete the time. That way I dont have to forego timing myself, but I don't neglect learning new things, nor pollute my averages.


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## SpartanSailor (Jan 24, 2018)

mark49152 said:


> @Jason Green : To my mind, untimed practice is similar for blind as for anything else. There's no point trying to get fast at something until you're competent at it.
> 
> I do quite a lot of untimed practice when I'm trying to work something new into my solves, like changes to my memo system or new sets of comms. If I time myself then I don't try those new things and just revert to the solutions I already know, because that's faster.
> 
> Sometimes I'll do a timed session and if the opportunity comes up to do something new that I'm learning, like a new comm I'm hesitant on, I'll mentally write off that solve as untimed and try the new comm. Then delete the time. That way I dont have to forego timing myself, but I don't neglect learning new things, nor pollute my averages.



I think untimed blind solves are helpful too. Those and sighted blind practice. I’m still learning at this point. Anything that helps me identify the piece or practice getting the memo down is time well spent. 

I absolutely WILL have to do some timed solves if I want to compete. Most comps only give 10 min total for three attempts. I usually take over 7 mins if I’m “fast”. So, if I’m ever going to get an official solve in a comp, I’m going to have to be perfect the first time or get much faster. 

Personally, I’d rather be perfect the first time.


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## h2f (Jan 24, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> Personally, I’d rather be perfect the first time.



Today is a 3rd anniversary of my first success in 3bld during comps. It took me "only" 3 comps and over a half of the year to do this.


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## Logiqx (Jan 24, 2018)

Selkie said:


> @Logiqx - Nearly all my nearly sub 10s before I got a sub 10 I panicked. They are like buses mate, you'll wait ages for the first one and they'll all arrive together!



I had another failure to get my first sub-10 last night... it ended up as 10.8. I was even slightly drunk after a leaving do at work!

The solve included a knight move OLL and half way through the alg, I started seeing blocks appearing. Watching them keenly to see if they would turn into a PLL skip, I messed up a couple of moves, un-did my mistake and completed the OLL. It was a PLL skip and the solve ended up as a 10.8 despite wasting time messing up the OLL.

Two days running of 10.8 singles; one OLL skip including a big F2L pause, one PLL skip including an OLL mistake.

Roll-on the elusive sub-10!


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## SpartanSailor (Jan 24, 2018)

h2f said:


> Today is a 3rd anniversary of my first success in 3bld during comps. It took me "only" 3 comps and over a half of the year to do this.


Based upon the current WCA competition schedule, there is only 1 event that is hosting 3BLD in my area... and it's a day that I can't be there. At that rate, it'll take me 3 years to get a success! I'd like to get a success in 2018. I am getting to know some of the delegates, and may try to convince them to add 3BLD to their normal fall line-up (not yet posted).

I'm considering driving down to Charleston, SC, at the end of March. They have a 10 min limit for all three attempts... I'm not sure how fast those guys do blind solving, but I'll have to be right the first time at the rate I'm taking these days... 7-8 minutes! Even if I don't actually go, it's giving me something to work toward.


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## JanW (Jan 24, 2018)

This week I've been doing some timed exclusively white cross solves for the first time in almost half a year. Apparently the CN work has payed off also for my white crosses.  New PB Ao5 and Ao12. Actually cut 0.9 seconds of my old PB Ao12 with this:

Generated By csTimer on 2018-1-24
avg of 12: 16.93

Time List:
1. (14.13) U' B2 D2 U' F2 U' B2 L2 U' L' B2 F R2 F L' U' F2 L' R
2. 14.40 D' F' U' F' R2 F' L' F2 R2 F' U2 R2 F U2 L2 B' D2 U'
3. 18.20 R2 D2 U2 B' R2 U2 F2 R2 D2 R2 F' R' U' B2 L U2 L2 U B' D2 F
4. 16.61 D2 B L2 B L2 F L2 U2 B' F' R2 D L F U2 R D' L' B L U'
5. 18.52 B2 R2 D F2 L2 B2 D2 R2 F2 U F' L2 D' L U L U2 L B R
6. 18.38 R2 B2 D F2 R2 F2 D U B2 R2 L D2 U' F L F' D' R' F' U'
7. 18.56 U R2 D' B2 D2 U L2 R2 U' L2 B L U2 F U' L' F2 D' B U2
8. 15.60 F' D F2 L2 R2 D L2 D2 U' F2 R2 D L D F' R2 F2 L U F' R'
9. 17.91 R' U R2 D2 L2 B2 R2 B2 D' L2 U F2 R' B U2 L' R F' U R B2
10. 16.82 L2 R2 D2 F L2 D2 B' F D2 F R' F' D L2 B2 L' F R D2 U
11. (20.03) F2 L2 F2 D2 U' B2 D B2 R2 U2 F2 L' F R D2 B' U' B' U' R F
12. 14.34 D2 R2 U2 R U2 L B2 U2 B2 R' D2 U' R' U F' D F2 L' D2 B' F

I'm not sure if I've ever had a counting sub-15 in an Ao12 before. Certainly not two of them!

Both yesterday and today I've had 13.xx full-step solves with no XCross. PB single could improve any day now.

*Edit:* Such a great session, couldn't end there. Now new PB Ao50 and Ao100 as well. First sub-19 Ao100!


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## newtonbase (Jan 24, 2018)

h2f said:


> Today is a 3rd anniversary of my first success in 3bld during comps. It took me "only" 3 comps and over a half of the year to do this.


4 comps and nearly a year for me. Fear of DNFs does not help.


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## David Zemdegs (Jan 24, 2018)

Another competition this weekend and my first doing the 2x2!


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## Bemis (Jan 24, 2018)

David Zemdegs said:


> Another competition this weekend and my first doing the 2x2!


Woo hoo! Enjoy and best of luck!


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## newtonbase (Jan 24, 2018)

15:23 4BLD DNF today. Missed one word in recall. Maybe tomorrow.


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## newtonbase (Jan 24, 2018)

My 7 Yuxin Little Magics arrived today but I've ordered stickerless by accident. May have to set up a stall at Manchester.


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## h2f (Jan 24, 2018)

newtonbase said:


> My 7 Yuxin Little Magics arrived today but I've ordered stickerless by accident. May have to set up a stall at Manchester.



Good for you - you dont have to restciker them.  



newtonbase said:


> Fear of DNFs does not help.



Oh, yeah.


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## SpartanSailor (Jan 24, 2018)

newtonbase said:


> 4 comps and nearly a year for me. Fear of DNFs does not help.


Who doesn't have a "fear" of DNF? I mean... no one enters a comp aspiring to get a DNF!


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## pglewis (Jan 24, 2018)

Jason Green said:


> ... but I have virtually no life experience trying to memorize pairs of letter sets together ...



For me I think it's a combination of this and tracing... tracing alone taxes my thinking bits, so trying to quickly assign images at the same time can sometimes overwhelm my brain into neutral. Practice was definitely leading to fast progress for me, so like you I just need to find a trigger to get me practicing again. My current 3x3 focus is the other culprit edging out 3bld practice. 



SpartanSailor said:


> ... So, if I’m ever going to get an official solve in a comp, I’m going to have to be perfect the first time ...



This was my ill-advised strategy . I didn't have a success for a few days leading up to comp nor any during practice before the event, so I think I was luckily just due to get one. I'm very susceptible to comp-amnesia and don't respond well to the adrenaline and nerves so I try to prep myself well for a week or two leading up to comp. My local coffee shop is good for this with light music playing, conversations, activity, people walking around. I think the distraction practice helps me vs. doing all my practice from the quiet conditions at my desk. 

Tracing and memo improves quickly with practice. It's so new, slow, and tedious at the very beginning but a few weeks of sighted practice will probably melt minutes off your memo. Most of the fast guys preach if "you're too accurate it means you're not pushing memo out of your comfort zone enough". I was averaging 6-7 mins when I left off, but had some near misses in 5 min range and shocked myself with a low 4 on one where everything just came together. I've at least had glimpses at how fast you can shed memo time at this stage. 



JanW said:


> New PB Ao5 and Ao12. Actually cut 0.9 seconds of my old PB Ao12



You're getting rather speedy, here's hoping I can keep chasing you that far! 



newtonbase said:


> My 7 Yuxin Little Magics arrived today but I've ordered stickerless by accident. May have to set up a stall at Manchester.



What do you think of them? I personally think they're going to be like licorice... the feel is unique and I suspect people will either love them or hate them. Magnets do a good job for the stability as usual and the price is sure right. It's never going to usurp my GTS2-Ms but I do really like the magnetized stickerless.


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## newtonbase (Jan 24, 2018)

pglewis said:


> What do you think of them?


I do like them but I prefer stickered cubes for blind as they offer better grip. Also I already have 3 stickered ones that are magnetised and I'd prefer them to match. I've placed an order for 10 replacements. I've enough magnets for 8 of them, maybe more if I mix and match. Let's hope that my MBLD skills are good enough to put them to use by June. 
I was dort of joking about a stall but I also have half a dozen boxed Thunderclaps. I'm sure they would all go quickly at cost price.


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## Selkie (Jan 25, 2018)

@pglewis - Great to see a filmed solve from you. I have to say you have great technique. Minimal rotations, some good F2L cases and a smooth turning style for your times. I have been told often before to not just practice but practice what is good about your solves. You are a great example of this. Over 40's need to watch out soon mate. Look forward to seeing more of your solves in the future ... Keep filming, there is no better self critique!

@SpartanSailor - Good to hear your have dabbled in MegaMinx. It is a really interesting puzzle and one that you can make good progression on with practice and really helps F2L on 3x3. I wasn't that bothered until we had a race to sub 4 minute on this thread !

@Ander - The more mature cubers owe Marcel so much thanks for this thread. I believe he is concentrating on his martial arts of late and looks 20 years younger, unlike me! 

@h2f - Happy BLD Anniversary buddy. Wow, how far you have come since then.

@Logiqx - Two in a week! Try not to overthink it, you are close and it will come. Must catch up for a beer in the next month mate, been too long. Oh and some great OH PLLs on your site, using 3 of them now 

@JanW - Great improvement on your ao12, huge improvement.

@David Zemdegs - Great branching out in different events, I like to think of myself as an all rounder (exc BLD). Take up feet, will be a first in the family 

@newtonbase - DNF or not that solve is surely half the time of the others, correct me if I am wrong?


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## openseas (Jan 25, 2018)

@Jason Green / I do timed BLD even though I practice alg/comms but not rushing at all. The only reason is that hitting space key is easier than clicking next scramble by mouse


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## JanW (Jan 25, 2018)

pglewis said:


> You're getting rather speedy, here's hoping I can keep chasing you that far!


Sure you can! Just keep practicing.  That was quite an outlier Ao12 for me though. I expect it to hold for quite a while.

Birthday next month, then I still have to wait 3 years until I qualify for the 40+ rankings... Maybe my goal should be to eventually enter the rankings at sub-15.  Need to get myself to some competitions before that.


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## newtonbase (Jan 25, 2018)

Selkie said:


> @newtonbase - DNF or not that solve is surely half the time of the others, correct me if I am wrong?


I've had one close to that time but mostly a good few mins slower. Unfortunately I've run out of practice sessions this week after a failure this lunch so will have to wait until next week to get it.


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## mitja (Jan 25, 2018)

newtonbase said:


> I've had one close to that time but mostly a good few mins slower. Unfortunately I've run out of practice sessions this week after a failure this lunch so will have to wait until next week to get it.


I made my first 4bld attempt in the morning. DNF 10:33, it was easy memo but one mistake at centers memo, I started new cycle break at the wrong piece. One wings execution mistake. Alltogether it felt quite OK. I was doing slow memo and a fast execution . Almost 8 minutes for memo. But I feel I could do it soon, so will do my second attempt tonight.


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## newtonbase (Jan 25, 2018)

mitja said:


> I made my first 4bld attempt in the morning. DNF 10:33, it was easy memo but one mistake at centers memo, I started new cycle break at the wrong piece. One wings execution mistake. Alltogether it felt quite OK. I was doing slow memo and a fast execution . Almost 8 minutes for memo. But I feel I could do it soon, so will do my second attempt tonight.


Far quicker than I can do. Good luck tonight.


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## mitja (Jan 25, 2018)

newtonbase said:


> Far quicker than I can do. Good luck tonight.


Well, i think i went to quick, so i will try much slower execution.


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## h2f (Jan 25, 2018)

newtonbase said:


> Let's hope that my MBLD skills are good enough to put them to use by June.





mitja said:


> Well, i think i went to quick, so i will try much slower execution.



2:30 minutes execution is really fast in a first try.


----------



## mitja (Jan 25, 2018)

h2f said:


> 2:30 minutes execution is really fast in a first try.


It was not 2:30 more around 3 minutes. the memo was someware below 8, i wasn't that precise at reading. It was very easy centres , almost half of them where solved, that's why it was so fast and only 6 letters corners. When i practised sighted, I needed at least 3:30 for normal execution, so i must have read the memo time wrong, but anyway, need to do it slower now.


----------



## h2f (Jan 25, 2018)

mitja said:


> It was not 2:30 more around 3 minutes. the memo was someware below 8, i wasn't that precise at reading. It was very easy centres , almost half of them where solved, that's why it was so fast and only 6 letters corners. When i practised sighted, I needed at least 3:30 for normal execution, so i must have read the memo time wrong, but anyway, need to do it slower now.



Anyway, your memo was really fast as first attempt. Whats your 3bld avgerage and pb?


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## mitja (Jan 25, 2018)

h2f said:


> Anyway, your memo was really fast as first attempt. Whats your 3bld avgerage and pb?


My fastest time with 3BLD was 3:30 and my oficial is froma year ago i think 5:59. I do not time myself a lot, it is more for fun. I started timing my blind again now with 4BLD rehearsing. More that i think about my 4BLD attempt today, more I think my cstimer didn't time well on ipad, maybe with screen going off in between. I don't think my execution or memo could be that fast yet. I will try again and record myself.


----------



## h2f (Jan 25, 2018)

mitja said:


> My fastest time with 3BLD was 3:30 and my oficial is froma year ago i think 5:59. I do not time myself a lot, it is more for fun. I started timing my blind again now with 4BLD rehearsing.



Your first attempt is very impressive. With times around yours my first attempts were around 20 minutes with 31 first success (but during memo I was doing a bread so the memo had around 25 minutes).


----------



## mitja (Jan 25, 2018)

h2f said:


> Your first attempt is very impressive. With times around yours my first attempts were around 20 minutes with 31 first success (but during memo I was doing a bread so the memo had around 25 minutes).


Just tested my 3Bld, felt too tired for 4BLD
Generated By csTimer on 2018-1-25
solves/total: 3/4
mean of 3: 4:31.55

1. DNF(6:21.92) F D2 F2 D2 R2 F2 L2 F' U2 F' R F2 L' B F L' U R2 F' L Rw2 Uw2 
2. 4:02.32 L U' F' R2 B U L' B R2 D2 L U2 B2 R' D2 L2 F2 R' F2 B Rw2 
3. 4:04.58 U2 L U2 B2 R' U2 F2 R' D2 B2 R D' B L' D' B2 U' B2 F U R' Rw2 Uw' 
4. 5:27.76 U' B U2 B2 D R F' R2 D F2 B L2 D2 L2 F R2 U2 F U2 B Fw

Memo felt better since 4BLD rehearsing, but need to rehearse more. I am trying to use advanced M2 if possible, so execution has many pauses.


----------



## pglewis (Jan 26, 2018)

Selkie said:


> @pglewis - Great to see a filmed solve from you. I have to say you have great technique. Minimal rotations, some good F2L cases and a smooth turning style for your times. I have been told often before to not just practice but practice what is good about your solves. You are a great example of this. Over 40's need to watch out soon mate. Look forward to seeing more of your solves in the future ... Keep filming, there is no better self critique!



Thanks! My turning has come a long way, M slices once had a 50/50 chance of sending the cube flying. Re-visiting the scramble and preserving the two gifted pairs led to a different LL but still friendly with a 6-move T and an R perm. 6-8 attempts later I got a 13.8, another 6-8 for a 13.3, then another 8-10 for a 12.5. At that point the majority of the pauses were eliminated, so that's a rough theoretical ceiling right now with near perfect lookahead and a friendly scramble; faster than that and I'd have to turn faster. 



JanW said:


> Birthday next month, then I still have to wait 3 years until I qualify for the 40+ rankings... Maybe my goal should be to eventually enter the rankings at sub-15.  Need to get myself to some competitions before that.



I'm still waiting for the next good comp to attend but whenever that is it'll be my debut in the over 50 club. If ya can't beat 'em, move to a different class! .


----------



## One Wheel (Jan 26, 2018)

Is there sufficient interest other than mine to justify coming up with an over-30 ranking? I'd love to see the WCA list age ranks with 20-year ranges, but in the meantime I've got just over 9 years until I hit 40.


----------



## Selkie (Jan 26, 2018)

2 days before Welsh Open nice to get my first sub 30 OH average and on film too. No consistency at all and still not confident enough with OH turning accuracy to maintain good look ahead but much to work on






Must take a look at video quality of the export though which seems to be regularly poor in Adobe Premier Elements which I have recently purchased.


----------



## Logiqx (Jan 26, 2018)

Good luck to everyone competing this weekend.

@Selkie - Sub-15 average please. Here's one from this morning, showing how easy they can be when relaxed. 

14.38, 13.65, 14.82, (18.04), 13.20 = *14.28 Ao5*


----------



## Selkie (Jan 26, 2018)

@Logiqx - Great average mate. What is your ao5 PB? The turn style is there, the look ahead is there, your finger tricks are so smooth and much better than mine. A bit more TPS and you could easily get sub 13 averages.


----------



## Logiqx (Jan 26, 2018)

Selkie said:


> @Logiqx - Great average mate. What is your ao5 PB? The turn style is there, the look ahead is there, your finger tricks are so smooth and much better than mine. A bit more TPS and you could easily get sub 13 averages.



My best Ao5 is 13.99 from July last year.

I stopped working on 3x3 for a few months and my times regressed somewhat but now I'm back to sub-15 Ao5 being a common occurrence.


----------



## AlphaSheep (Jan 26, 2018)

One Wheel said:


> Is there sufficient interest other than mine to justify coming up with an over-30 ranking? I'd love to see the WCA list age ranks with 20-year ranges, but in the meantime I've got just over 9 years until I hit 40.


It would be interesting to see, but it would be far larger than the over-40s ranking. Maintaining the list should be quite easy - you could just adapt the scripts for the over-40s. The really hard part is collecting the WCAIDs of all of the over-30s.


----------



## Selkie (Jan 26, 2018)

Well after my first sub 14 ao12 the other day managed to get another one this time on film.

Average of 12: 13.85
1. 13.33 L' F R' D2 L' D2 L' D2 F B2 U' B2 D' R2 B2 R2 B2 U' B2 R2 
2. 13.42 F' B U B' U' F2 D F' U R F2 R F2 B2 R' F2 D2 L F2 
3. 14.33 R2 D' B2 U' F2 R2 D' U2 B2 D L' R2 D B2 D2 F R B D F 
4. 14.29 B' L2 B2 R2 D2 L2 F' L2 B2 R2 F2 D F2 U2 L' B2 R' B' D' F' 
5. 13.24 L2 R2 B2 D R2 B2 D F2 U' B2 U B' L R' U B' R B2 D U' R' 
6. 13.44 D2 F2 R2 U' R2 U' B2 U2 F2 L2 U' B' R F' L D2 R B R B' D 
7. 15.91 R F' U L2 B' U2 R' L' B' U L2 U' R2 U F2 B2 L2 U2 
8. 13.28 U' F2 U F2 L2 B2 D' B2 L2 R2 U' B' D' B2 U2 R' B2 F2 D U2 
9. 14.40 D' F2 L2 U2 L2 D R2 U F2 L2 U' R' F D2 R2 B D' F D2 R F2 
10. 12.86 F2 L' B2 D' R D' L2 U' B' R2 F' D2 F2 L2 U2 R2 B2 R2 B2 
11. (12.08) F2 R' U R L2 U' D R' B D2 F2 U' L2 U R2 L2 D L2 B2 U 
12. (16.31) F2 L2 U F2 U2 R2 F2 R2 D F2 U2 B' R U B' F' R F2 U' L' B






Sorry for the video flood today!


----------



## SpartanSailor (Jan 26, 2018)

AlphaSheep said:


> It would be interesting to see, but it would be far larger than the over-40s ranking. Maintaining the list should be quite easy - you could just adapt the scripts for the over-40s. The really hard part is collecting the WCAIDs of all of the over-30s.



On the one hand, I think it would be interesting to be able to look at over 40s officially. Over 40 tends to be a "master's" category in every competitive event otherwise... maybe another at different age groups. But then would we need to that subset at competitions? I'm pretty sure I'd be the only one in the "master's" category at every event I attend, with limited exceptions. At most, there has never been more than 3.

On the other hand, I rather like that WCA has no age/gender classification. It's a totally even competition field. For me, anyway, I'm not competing against anyone other than the clock and my own expectations. Even if I were the fastest, or among the fastest (which I most certainly am not), I would be more interested in how I perform against what I know I can do over just being 1/100th of a second faster than the others.


----------



## Selkie (Jan 26, 2018)

I have very recently raised the question of official age bracket rankings with the WCA board. There are potential possible issues with using data for purposes for which we have not gained permission but I personally believe these can be overcome. We will have to see how this progresses but I feel it would be a very welcome addition.


----------



## SpartanSailor (Jan 26, 2018)

Selkie said:


> I have very recently raised the question of official age bracket rankings with the WCA board. There are potential possible issues with using data for purposes for which we have not gained permission but I personally believe these can be overcome. We will have to see how this progresses but I feel it would be a very welcome addition.


I would expect the "grass roots" demand for this will only grow over time. At some point, all the fastest cubers will be over 40.... Right now there are likely so very few that it may not make sense. But over the next 10-15 years or so, as long as new young cubers keep coming to the scene, there will be larger and larger numbers of those that fall into older age classifications.


----------



## mark49152 (Jan 26, 2018)

The majority of young cubers will move on. My guess is that over-40s will always be a tiny proportion of the field.

Also, only results achieved when over 40 (or in whatever bracket) should count. For example, if Feliks retires at 39, he would have no results or rankings in the over 40 bracket the following year.


----------



## SpartanSailor (Jan 26, 2018)

Agreed. I would expect that results attained after the age are fair and appropriate. I do expect that the over 40s will grow, but certainly will always be a small percentage of the active cubing population.


----------



## Logiqx (Jan 26, 2018)

Selkie said:


> Well after my first sub 14 ao12 the other day managed to get another one this time on film.
> Sorry for the video flood today!



You're certainly in good form for this weekend. Try to stay calm and the results will look after themselves!


----------



## mark49152 (Jan 26, 2018)

Good luck @Selkie , @Shaky Hands and everyone else competing this weekend!


----------



## pglewis (Jan 26, 2018)

@Selkie, @Logiqx Thanks for sharing those. I've always enjoyed watching your solves but now it's actually almost useful, rather than just laughing and shaking my head. Logiqx at 1/4 speed is just so fluid and accurate, that's pretty much dead-on the turning style I'd like to emulate. 

Cheers and good fortune to all competing!


----------



## Jason Green (Jan 26, 2018)

Logiqx said:


> You're certainly in good form for this weekend. Try to stay calm and the results will look after themselves!


I thought this video was interesting in the middle where he talks about relaxing vs. trying hard. I know for me I am pretty much in try hard mode and it works out for me. I do take a deep breath and try to relax before I start inspection, but otherwise I just enjoy the nerves.  I've said before I wish my nerves had a good effect like that in bowling but it's opposite!


----------



## phreaker (Jan 27, 2018)

For those into non-WCA puzzles... I just got a 2x2x2x2 (physical). Very cool puzzle. I need to spend some quality time with this one .


----------



## David Zemdegs (Jan 27, 2018)

3x3 pb today 1.05:35! Oh and my son did well I think


----------



## Jason Green (Jan 27, 2018)

David Zemdegs said:


> 3x3 pb today 1.05:35! Oh and my son did well I think


Yes I heard he got an official PB too! Good job you two!


----------



## newtonbase (Jan 27, 2018)

David Zemdegs said:


> 3x3 pb today 1.05:35! Oh and my son did well I think


Well done @David Zemdegs (& son). Sub 1 soon.


----------



## muchacho (Jan 27, 2018)

OH PBs (but I've only learned 2 new algs )



Spoiler: Ao5: 21.895 (was 22.059)



10321 27-ene-2018 12:47:17 00:17.903 D2 L2 F2 D' L2 D' L2 U' L2 U' R2 F L F D2 B L' B' D' B' L2
10320 27-ene-2018 12:46:30 00:28.030 R2 U L2 D' F2 D' B2 U' F2 L2 U2 R B R D2 L2 U' R D' R2 B' U
10319 27-ene-2018 12:45:47 00:20.583 F2 D2 F2 U2 L2 U B2 U L2 F2 D2 L F' D2 B' F' R D2 R' D' L'
10318 27-ene-2018 12:44:58 00:23.999 B2 U L2 D B2 L2 U L2 U' F2 R2 B' F2 L F2 D L F D' B L U'
10317 27-ene-2018 12:44:17 00:21.103 R2 F2 U R2 U' F2 D R2 F2 U2 L2 F D2 L B U' L2 F' D2 L U





Spoiler: Ao12: 24.001 (was 24.276)



10319 27-ene-2018 12:45:47 00:20.583 F2 D2 F2 U2 L2 U B2 U L2 F2 D2 L F' D2 B' F' R D2 R' D' L'
10318 27-ene-2018 12:44:58 00:23.999 B2 U L2 D B2 L2 U L2 U' F2 R2 B' F2 L F2 D L F D' B L U'
10317 27-ene-2018 12:44:17 00:21.103 R2 F2 U R2 U' F2 D R2 F2 U2 L2 F D2 L B U' L2 F' D2 L U
10316 27-ene-2018 12:43:33 00:24.510 B2 U F2 D B2 R2 D B2 F2 D U2 F L D L U' F2 L' D R D U'
10315 27-ene-2018 12:42:49 00:22.438 F2 U B2 D' L2 U B2 L2 D R2 D2 B' L' D L U' R L2 F' L B' D'
10314 27-ene-2018 12:42:06 00:26.135 B2 F2 D2 U R2 U' R2 F2 D' U B2 R B' U' L B' F L F2 U' B2 U
10313 27-ene-2018 12:41:13 00:29.671 U2 L2 U' R2 D' L2 U' L2 F2 L2 D2 F' L D R' L D2 L D2 U F L2
10312 27-ene-2018 12:40:27 00:25.366 B2 U' R2 B2 R2 F2 U B2 D2 R2 U L' B L2 D2 L D' R B2 L2 B2 U'
10311 27-ene-2018 12:39:05 00:59.094 L2 D' R2 U L2 B2 D' R2 L2 U2 L2 B' D' R F' D' B' D' B F' R'
10310 27-ene-2018 12:38:19 00:23.686 D' U2 B2 L2 B2 F2 L2 D' U2 L2 U' L' U' L' F D2 B L2 B' R B2 U'
10309 27-ene-2018 12:37:33 00:22.526 L2 U2 F2 L2 D' B2 U' F2 L2 U' B2 R' B' U2 R2 L B2 L B D' R' L'
10308 27-ene-2018 12:36:16 00:20.111 U2 L2 D2 R2 B2 D U2 R2 U L2 U' F' D2 L B L2 U F2 U' F2 D' R





Spoiler: Mo100: 26.523 (was 27.254)



10351 27-ene-2018 15:17:51 00:25.527 L2 U2 F2 R2 F2 D B2 L2 D L2 U2 F R L2 D2 R D U L' F' R' U'
10350 27-ene-2018 15:17:11 00:22.503 F2 U' L2 D R2 D R2 B2 L2 D2 L D2 R' D F D L' D' B' R2 U'
10349 27-ene-2018 15:16:00 00:32.822 U' R2 D' B2 U B2 U' L2 F2 U2 R2 B' U2 F' U R2 B2 D' R' F2 U2 R
10348 27-ene-2018 15:15:08 00:29.639 D' L2 F2 L2 B2 U' R2 L2 B2 L2 D' B' R2 L' B' U2 F' R B2 U' F2
10347 27-ene-2018 15:14:27 00:20.167 F2 U2 L2 F2 D' B2 D' B2 F2 D2 U2 B' D L2 B R2 F R' L U R2 U'
10346 27-ene-2018 15:13:49 00:19.959 L2 U F2 L2 D' U' B2 R2 B2 R2 L2 F' R2 F U' B' L' U B U L
10345 27-ene-2018 15:13:06 00:26.078 F2 D B2 R2 L2 D' B2 F2 R2 L2 B' R' B2 F' D L B' F' D' B L2
10344 27-ene-2018 15:12:24 00:22.711 B2 F2 D L2 B2 U B2 D F2 R2 U2 R' L U2 B U B R' U2 F D'
10343 27-ene-2018 15:11:41 00:25.238 F2 R2 D F2 D F2 L2 D R2 D L' D' L' B D' F L B R B
10342 27-ene-2018 15:10:55 00:24.390 D' L2 D R2 B2 R2 F2 L2 D' U2 F2 R' F D' L2 F L' D' F2 D B' U'
10341 27-ene-2018 15:10:12 00:25.782 L2 D' B2 L2 D' B2 U F2 D U2 F2 R F' R D' R' D2 B D' B' D' U'
10340 27-ene-2018 15:09:24 00:27.494 F2 U' L2 F2 U L2 U B2 R2 F2 R2 B' R' L2 D' B2 L' U2 F' L2 D2 U'
10339 27-ene-2018 15:08:33 00:29.653 D U2 L2 B2 L2 U' R2 D2 U' F2 U' R F' L' D2 U L B D' F U'
10338 27-ene-2018 15:07:51 00:22.518 D2 F2 D R2 B2 L2 F2 U L2 D B' U2 R U2 B' R2 F2 U B F'
10337 27-ene-2018 15:07:09 00:21.640 U' F2 D' U2 F2 L2 B2 R2 F2 D B2 R' D2 R' U' L' D2 B' R2 B' L2 U'
10336 27-ene-2018 15:06:19 00:24.784 U' F2 R2 B2 U' F2 U L2 F2 U F2 L D B' R2 D R' L2 D2 B' F' U2
10335 27-ene-2018 15:05:35 00:26.312 D L2 U' F2 D R2 U' L2 D2 B2 U2 R' F' R2 F2 L' D B R2 L' U'
10334 27-ene-2018 15:04:21 00:25.407 R2 F2 L2 B2 U' L2 D' U' L2 B2 D2 L B' F2 L' D' L D2 L D' U
10333 27-ene-2018 15:03:39 00:26.342 R2 L2 U F2 D' F2 U' B2 D F2 D2 R F2 L B2 R U R2 U B' L'
10332 27-ene-2018 15:02:49 00:29.134 U F2 R2 D R2 D2 L2 F2 D' B2 D2 L B2 U' R' B F U2 R' F2 U
10331 27-ene-2018 15:02:07 00:25.190 D2 F2 U F2 U B2 L2 F2 U2 F2 L2 B' D2 U' B F2 D' R L' B D2 R
10330 27-ene-2018 15:01:20 00:26.575 B2 U' B2 D L2 U R2 F2 D2 B2 L2 B' D2 F D2 L' U B2 D2 L' B U'
10329 27-ene-2018 15:00:32 00:27.486 L2 B2 U R2 U2 L2 F2 U' L2 B2 D' B' D R' D R U B L2 U2 B
10328 27-ene-2018 14:59:47 00:23.566 D2 B2 U' B2 L2 B2 U B2 R2 F2 U2 F' R B R' B2 D' B' R2 F2 D
10327 27-ene-2018 14:58:59 00:28.471 L2 D B2 U L2 D2 L2 U L2 U R U' B2 U2 B' D' L2 U2 B R
10326 27-ene-2018 14:58:13 00:31.223 R2 F2 D2 L2 U2 F2 U B2 F2 D2 B R B U L F D L B2 U
10325 27-ene-2018 14:57:21 00:25.511 R2 D2 B2 R2 D L2 D' B2 F2 D' L2 F' R B2 D2 F D F2 U2 L F'
10324 27-ene-2018 14:54:38 00:21.575 L2 D' B2 D R2 D' B2 D' B2 F2 L2 B R2 L2 D' L2 B R' B' U' L
10323 27-ene-2018 14:53:49 00:30.398 U B2 U2 R2 B2 R2 D B2 R2 D' R' L2 D2 L B U R' F2 R2 L'
10322 27-ene-2018 12:48:03 00:56.492 R2 U L2 F2 D F2 L2 F2 D U L2 F' U' R2 U B R2 B' D2 R D2
10321 27-ene-2018 12:47:17 00:17.903 D2 L2 F2 D' L2 D' L2 U' L2 U' R2 F L F D2 B L' B' D' B' L2
10320 27-ene-2018 12:46:30 00:28.030 R2 U L2 D' F2 D' B2 U' F2 L2 U2 R B R D2 L2 U' R D' R2 B' U
10319 27-ene-2018 12:45:47 00:20.583 F2 D2 F2 U2 L2 U B2 U L2 F2 D2 L F' D2 B' F' R D2 R' D' L'
10318 27-ene-2018 12:44:58 00:23.999 B2 U L2 D B2 L2 U L2 U' F2 R2 B' F2 L F2 D L F D' B L U'
10317 27-ene-2018 12:44:17 00:21.103 R2 F2 U R2 U' F2 D R2 F2 U2 L2 F D2 L B U' L2 F' D2 L U
10316 27-ene-2018 12:43:33 00:24.510 B2 U F2 D B2 R2 D B2 F2 D U2 F L D L U' F2 L' D R D U'
10315 27-ene-2018 12:42:49 00:22.438 F2 U B2 D' L2 U B2 L2 D R2 D2 B' L' D L U' R L2 F' L B' D'
10314 27-ene-2018 12:42:06 00:26.135 B2 F2 D2 U R2 U' R2 F2 D' U B2 R B' U' L B' F L F2 U' B2 U
10313 27-ene-2018 12:41:13 00:29.671 U2 L2 U' R2 D' L2 U' L2 F2 L2 D2 F' L D R' L D2 L D2 U F L2
10312 27-ene-2018 12:40:27 00:25.366 B2 U' R2 B2 R2 F2 U B2 D2 R2 U L' B L2 D2 L D' R B2 L2 B2 U'
10311 27-ene-2018 12:39:05 00:59.094 L2 D' R2 U L2 B2 D' R2 L2 U2 L2 B' D' R F' D' B' D' B F' R'
10310 27-ene-2018 12:38:19 00:23.686 D' U2 B2 L2 B2 F2 L2 D' U2 L2 U' L' U' L' F D2 B L2 B' R B2 U'
10309 27-ene-2018 12:37:33 00:22.526 L2 U2 F2 L2 D' B2 U' F2 L2 U' B2 R' B' U2 R2 L B2 L B D' R' L'
10308 27-ene-2018 12:36:16 00:20.111 U2 L2 D2 R2 B2 D U2 R2 U L2 U' F' D2 L B L2 U F2 U' F2 D' R
10307 27-ene-2018 12:35:25 00:27.030 D' L2 F2 U2 B2 U' F2 L2 D F2 U' B' F2 U' R F L F' D B' D'
10306 27-ene-2018 12:34:38 00:31.462 U2 R2 D B2 U' B2 F2 U F2 U' L' F L' B' D L B2 D' B L' U2
10305 27-ene-2018 12:33:47 00:26.086 L2 D L2 D' B2 U2 F2 L2 B2 D' F2 R' L' D B' L2 D R U F2 U'
10304 27-ene-2018 12:33:06 00:20.862 L2 U2 F2 D' R2 D' F2 D' R2 D' F2 R' U' R L B' L U R L
10303 27-ene-2018 12:32:19 00:30.958 D' R2 D2 R2 D' B2 D F2 D R2 F2 R' D F' D U' F' R U B L2
10302 27-ene-2018 12:31:37 00:23.247 B2 F2 L2 D' U2 L2 F2 D2 B2 D R U R2 F L2 B' F2 L' U' B D'
10301 27-ene-2018 12:30:50 00:25.726 U' L2 D2 L2 B2 R2 D' L2 U B2 U L' U2 B R' L2 F' D B2 D B' U'
10300 27-ene-2018 12:30:02 00:28.639 U' R2 B2 U2 B2 F2 U2 L2 D2 U' F' D U2 F' R' F2 D2 B' U' R' D'
10299 27-ene-2018 12:29:18 00:25.805 D' B2 R2 D' R2 U' R2 L2 D L2 U B R2 D B' R U2 F2 U B R' U
10298 27-ene-2018 12:28:32 00:27.454 D' R2 F2 U R2 D2 U' R2 U2 R2 F2 R U' L' F' D' U2 B L' D' R'
10297 27-ene-2018 12:27:40 00:29.054 U' B2 F2 U' R2 D L2 F2 R2 U F D R' U L F' L' U L' F'
10296 27-ene-2018 12:26:49 00:29.045 D' B2 R2 L2 F2 D' R2 U L2 D' L2 F' R D L' B' D' L2 B2 R F L'
10295 27-ene-2018 12:26:06 00:27.358 U2 B2 F2 U' R2 F2 D' R2 D R2 F B2 D R L F R F2 U2 F
10294 27-ene-2018 12:25:16 00:31.270 U B2 L2 D U R2 L2 U' L2 U L' D2 B2 D B F D2 U B2 D'
10293 27-ene-2018 12:24:35 00:23.599 B2 D' U' B2 U' L2 B2 U' B2 D2 R F' D L2 F2 U' L2 F' R B U2
10292 27-ene-2018 12:23:50 00:27.333 U' L2 U' R2 U' R2 F2 L2 F2 D2 U' L' B' R' D2 R2 F' D2 U' R2 F' R
10291 27-ene-2018 12:23:00 00:29.054 R2 U R2 D2 U' F2 D' F2 L2 D2 F2 R D' L' B2 F' L' U2 B2 F' L'
10290 27-ene-2018 12:22:16 00:26.175 L2 U2 B2 R2 F2 D R2 D' B2 F2 D R B' F' D' F' U' L D2 B' F' U2
10289 27-ene-2018 12:21:26 00:31.446 L2 D2 L2 F2 U R2 U2 B2 D' F2 D' B' R' F D' B L B2 D' U' R2 U
10288 27-ene-2018 12:20:35 00:30.311 R2 L2 D' L2 F2 U R2 D' B2 R2 U' L B' R F U' R2 F D' L' D2
10287 27-ene-2018 12:19:47 00:29.063 F2 L2 D' F2 D F2 U B2 D2 L2 B2 R' B2 R' B2 L U' B' D2 F L U'
10286 27-ene-2018 12:18:59 00:23.647 D2 F2 D L2 D2 F2 D L2 U L' U' B L U B' D B2 U' L'
10285 27-ene-2018 10:35:02 00:25.294 D' B2 U2 L2 D' L2 U R2 D R2 L2 B' D2 L D' L' U2 B U' R D U
10284 27-ene-2018 10:34:13 00:25.950 D2 B2 L2 D B2 F2 D' R2 B2 U' L B' L F L' B' U2 R' B'
10283 27-ene-2018 10:33:21 00:31.583 L2 D U2 L2 F2 D2 U R2 B2 U' F R' F D U B' D B R F' L
10282 27-ene-2018 10:32:35 00:26.447 B2 R2 F2 L2 U' B2 R2 U2 B2 L2 U2 R L' F' L B F2 D' B R' D U'
10281 27-ene-2018 10:31:47 00:28.118 F2 D L2 D' L2 U' R2 B2 U' F2 D2 L D L' U F' L' F2 D F U'
10280 27-ene-2018 10:30:47 00:27.543 U2 L2 D' L2 B2 F2 U' R2 D R2 L2 F' R D' L D' U' F D2 L2 B2 U
10279 25-ene-2018 15:24:24 00:24.918 U R2 D' F2 D' F2 D' B2 U' L2 U' R' U L2 B' R' L' D' B2 U' L2
10278 25-ene-2018 15:23:35 00:25.878 U R2 U' B2 D F2 R2 B2 L2 U' F2 R' B' F U' R' D2 F' R' U
10277 25-ene-2018 15:22:47 00:26.511 F2 L2 F2 R2 U L2 D' F2 D' F2 L2 F L U B U2 L2 F' D2 R D'
10276 25-ene-2018 15:21:59 00:25.287 F2 R2 D2 R2 U R2 F2 U F2 U2 F' U R L D F L U R F U
10275 25-ene-2018 15:21:15 00:22.151 U L2 F2 D' R2 U' L2 U2 B2 L2 F2 L F' U R' D' L F2 D B' D'
10274 25-ene-2018 15:20:26 00:26.455 U' F2 R2 D B2 D B2 R2 D' R2 U2 L D F L' B D' L' F2 R F U'
10273 25-ene-2018 15:19:44 00:22.888 D2 L2 U B2 U' B2 U F2 U B2 L2 F' L F2 U' R F2 R2 U' B' R'
10272 25-ene-2018 15:18:48 00:26.326 R2 U2 L2 U' L2 U B2 D U2 F2 U F' D R B2 L B' F R L D2 U2
10271 25-ene-2018 15:18:01 00:24.070 B2 F2 D' F2 D2 F2 R2 U' B2 D L2 F' U' R' F2 D' U' B U' F' U L'
10270 25-ene-2018 15:17:02 00:32.862 B2 U' R2 D' F2 U B2 R2 U' F2 U2 R D2 F' R F' R2 B2 U L' F U'
10269 25-ene-2018 15:16:13 00:27.470 D R2 B2 D2 U L2 U2 R2 F2 R2 D' R' L2 D2 B' U' F' R' B2 U2 L U2
10268 25-ene-2018 15:15:28 00:22.462 U' R2 L2 F2 D' F2 L2 D U2 B2 U' L F R2 F2 L' U' F R' U B' U'
10267 25-ene-2018 15:12:58 00:28.206 B2 F2 R2 F2 U' R2 D' B2 U B2 D2 F' D2 F' D U L U2 B' F2 R2 U
10266 25-ene-2018 15:12:10 00:24.246 U B2 R2 U F2 R2 D' L2 D R2 B D L' F' U R' B F' R' L' D
10265 25-ene-2018 15:11:23 00:23.190 F2 R2 U' L2 D2 R2 L2 B2 U F2 R' L' U' L2 F R B' R U R2 U'
10264 25-ene-2018 15:10:35 00:29.982 L2 U B2 U' F2 D' R2 U2 B2 U' R2 B D B R' B F U2 F' L2 F' U'
10263 25-ene-2018 15:09:13 00:26.926 R2 D' R2 B2 R2 F2 L2 D F' B2 U' L D2 R U2 B2 R2 U2
10262 25-ene-2018 15:08:28 00:31.397 D' R2 U' B2 U2 R2 F2 D R2 D' L' F L2 F' U F R2 D2 U R
10261 25-ene-2018 15:07:41 00:24.120 D U' L2 F2 U L2 U R2 B2 L2 F2 R' F' R2 U2 B2 F' D' F R' D U'
10260 25-ene-2018 15:06:46 00:24.055 L2 D B2 L2 U B2 D' U' L2 D L D' F U2 F' U' L2 B2 D' B U'
10259 25-ene-2018 15:05:52 00:27.791 U2 L2 D' B2 L2 F2 L2 U' F2 L2 U2 L B' R2 U' B2 F R2 U' R2 D2
10258 25-ene-2018 15:05:07 00:21.302 R2 F2 D' R2 F2 D' B2 F2 U R2 U L D B' L B R2 U2 L' D2 U'
10257 25-ene-2018 15:04:22 00:24.062 U F2 D2 F2 D2 L2 U F2 R2 L2 U2 L D2 B' R' F' L D' U R' B U
10256 25-ene-2018 15:03:35 00:22.542 R2 D B2 U L2 U F2 D R2 L2 U2 F R2 D U R B2 L D' L' U'
10255 25-ene-2018 15:02:50 00:29.663 B2 D' R2 B2 D F2 L2 U' F2 R2 F2 R' F R2 F2 D' R2 F2 R U B D
10254 25-ene-2018 15:02:02 00:23.494 D2 L2 D L2 F2 U R2 U' R2 L2 B' F' R U2 B D2 L U' F
10253 25-ene-2018 15:01:15 00:24.615 R2 D2 R2 F2 L2 F2 D' R2 D' R2 U2 L' B' F' D' R2 B' L2 D' F R' U2
10252 25-ene-2018 15:00:34 00:20.167 B2 L2 D B2 U R2 D2 R2 D' B' R2 F' R' L2 B' L' D B' F' D'


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## Selkie (Jan 27, 2018)

@mark49152 , @Logiqx - Thanks gents, will try and keep comp nerves under control which really only effect me on 3x3.

@Shaky Hands - Best of luck today my friend, see you tomorrow


If a comment on my 3x3 ao12 is anything to go by, it looks like Marcel might be coming back to cubing. That would be awesome


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## Jason Green (Jan 27, 2018)

Selkie said:


> @mark49152 , @Logiqx - Thanks gents, will try and keep comp nerves under control which really only effect me on 3x3.
> 
> @Shaky Hands - Best of luck today my friend, see you tomorrow
> 
> ...


That would be great hope to see Marcel back soon!


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## pglewis (Jan 27, 2018)

Selkie said:


> If a comment on my 3x3 ao12 is anything to go by, it looks like Marcel might be coming back to cubing. That would be awesome



Yeah, I have a lot of gratitude for this oasis for the aged, even though we never interacted much before he drifted into other interests. Here's hoping he at least pops in and takes a bow.


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## openseas (Jan 28, 2018)

David Zemdegs said:


> 3x3 pb today 1.05:35! Oh and my son did well I think



Great job & congrats, both of you!


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## Logiqx (Jan 28, 2018)

@Selkie - Well... you're getting closer to a sub-15 average. I'm sure you're gutted to miss it ever so slightly but you've halved the gap from your previous comp best. You also did it twice in one day. That OH single as well!!!

@Shaky Hands - Great 7x7 time dude!


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## SpartanSailor (Jan 28, 2018)

I had a completely unexpected Ao5 earlier. 20.83... by a LARGE margin that the fastest Ao5 I’ve ever had. In fact, my official single is 22.01 (official Ao5 is 25.03)

I would LOVE to be sub 24 in Lancaster in a couple weeks. 

Great job to @Selkie too!


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## Shaky Hands (Jan 28, 2018)

Logiqx said:


> @Selkie - Well... you're getting closer to a sub-15 average. I'm sure you're gutted to miss it ever so slightly but you've halved the gap from your previous comp best. You also did it twice in one day. That OH single as well!!!
> 
> @Shaky Hands - Great 7x7 time dude!



Thanks Mike. I left it to my final solve to get a PB at today's comp! And lot of credit for that should go to good hardware from someone that I know lurks in this thread from time to time. 

It could have been better really as I did the wrong PLL and there were no quick wins in L2C. I've had some sub-6m solves at home but still need to gain consistency to get a mean in comp (... although today's time would have got me one at the previous comp before the cutoffs were reduced.)

I'll get a 7x7 mean at some point though I think, hopefully in 2018. Positive thinking.


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## pglewis (Jan 28, 2018)

Well, I think my next comp has finally showed up. Great Lakes regionals in Ft. Wayne late May, opens up for registration in a few days. This would be a bigger comp than usual for me but it also the only one in the area holding 3bld, and it'll be my mbld debut if I do register. Now I have a real reason to get the dust off my blind solves.


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## SpartanSailor (Jan 28, 2018)

pglewis said:


> Well, I think my next comp has finally showed up. Great Lakes regionals in Ft. Wayne late May, opens up for registration in a few days. This would be a bigger comp than usual for me but it also the only one in the area holding 3bld, and it'll be my mbld debut if I do register. Now I have a real reason to get the dust off my blind solves.


I’ll have to look into that one! It’s abit of a haul, but could be a good time.


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## SpartanSailor (Jan 28, 2018)

pglewis said:


> Well, I think my next comp has finally showed up. Great Lakes regionals in Ft. Wayne late May, opens up for registration in a few days. This would be a bigger comp than usual for me but it also the only one in the area holding 3bld, and it'll be my mbld debut if I do register. Now I have a real reason to get the dust off my blind solves.


Only 5 minutes for 3BLD? That’s not something I could do at this point. I don’t know what the learning curve is, but with competition pressure that might be a bridge too far for me.


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## pglewis (Jan 28, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> Only 5 minutes for 3BLD? That’s not something I could do at this point. I don’t know what the learning curve is, but with competition pressure that might be a bridge too far for me.



It'll definitely be some work for me but I have nearly 4 months to get it there. I expect to be back to ~10 mins since I haven't been practicing but that should drop back down to 6-7 within a week or two of regular practice. The plan of attack from there is spamming tracing practice since I can probably drop 2-3 minutes off my memo if I can trace without so much fuss. I haven't been drilling my images but I still have all the images I've collected thus far in a spreadsheet and _collecting_ them is the time consuming part. 

mbld might be the bigger challenge, mostly finding enough practice time to be prepped for a 3-5 cube attempt on top of getting my 3bld under the cut.


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## SpartanSailor (Jan 28, 2018)

pglewis said:


> It'll definitely be some work for me but I have nearly 4 months to get it there. I expect to be back to ~10 mins since I haven't been practicing but that should drop back down to 6-7 within a week or two of regular practice. The plan of attack from there is spamming tracing practice since I can probably drop 2-3 minutes off my memo if I can trace without so much fuss. I haven't been drilling my images but I still have all the images I've collected thus far in a spreadsheet and _collecting_ them is the time consuming part.
> 
> mbld might be the bigger challenge, mostly finding enough practice time to be prepped for a 3-5 cube attempt on top of getting my 3bld under the cut.


I get to where I’m tracing my memo 3-4 times to make sure I have it. I still get tangled up tracing the pieces to be sure I got them all...


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## Logiqx (Jan 28, 2018)

Logiqx said:


> My best Ao5 is 13.99 from July last year.
> 
> I stopped working on 3x3 for a few months and my times regressed somewhat but now I'm back to sub-15 Ao5 being a common occurrence.



Edit: New PB Ao5 of 13.78


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## openseas (Jan 28, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> I get to where I’m tracing my memo 3-4 times to make sure I have it. I still get tangled up tracing the pieces to be sure I got them all...



When you start 3BLD. tracing takes a while on top of memo'ing what you just traced. No shortcut but keep practicing until you get comfortable without any finger tapping or calculating (how many targets you traced, etc).
Since the whole 3BLD session (tracing + memo + execution) will take time at this point, you may want to practice corner and edge separately based on which one takes longer for you. or, as previously commented, trying to memo series of random alphabets so that you don't have to create images during the tracing. When I first started 3BLD, I didn't attempt the whole solve until I get comfortable with both edge and corner with decent success rates, like 2+ min per each with ~50% success rate. My first success was 5:02 min, but not because I was "genuinely" good but because practiced separately quite a bit.
I still do this to improve my edge memo (audio), advanced M2, and corner for orozco.


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## newtonbase (Jan 28, 2018)

As @openseas says, practice the individual parts of the solve. 
Tracing is easy with hand scrambles. You can do a lot in very little time. 
This link generates letters so you can practice creating images http://tobip.ch/letter_pair_generator/
Roman's site has loads of practice resources http://bestsiteever.ru
Sub 5mins in 4 months is very doable. For multi you can just do 2 cubes at a time but memo multi style.


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## Selkie (Jan 28, 2018)

Indeed the sub 15 official average still escapes me but better progress than in 2016. Here are the three 3x3 averages today:-

Round 1: 16.92s - 15.40, 16.51, 18.84, (19.66), (14.79)
Round 2: 15.27s PB - 14.42 16.40 (13.67) (18.52) 15.00
Final: 15.25s PB - (17.01) 14.34 16.47 14.95 (14.07)

Round 1 followed the same theme as comp averages last year so really tried to keep concentration up for round 2. Two 15.2x averages that failed sub 15 because of two counting 16.4x solves! That is consistency :confused:

Talking of consistency the first 3 solves of my OH average were 1:10.99, 42.56, 23.54!!

Here is the pick of the bunch, the 15.25s average in the final:-






Sub 15 will have to wait for another day 

Great to catch up with my buddy @Shaky Hands as always.


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## mark49152 (Jan 29, 2018)

Some nice results there in Wales. Congrats guys!


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## pglewis (Jan 29, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> I get to where I’m tracing my memo 3-4 times to make sure I have it. I still get tangled up tracing the pieces to be sure I got them all...



Same issues here, we're being very careful almost as if we're doing mbld. The top guys memo under 10 seconds and though that may be nuts I figure if they can do that then I can do it in two and a half minutes. My execution splits were usually under 2 mins when I was practicing, even as green as I am, so memo under 3 and I'm in.


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## Mike Hughey (Jan 29, 2018)

Oh wow - a regional championship so close to home! (Great Lakes in Fort Wayne) I will be there if I possibly can.


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## mark49152 (Jan 29, 2018)

pglewis said:


> Same issues here, we're being very careful almost as if we're doing mbld.


At 5+ mins I would say it's just a case of doing a bunch of solves. Your times will plummet as you get more adept and confident at tracing, memo and execution. Don't worry about accuracy, DNFs are a good sign that you're not taking it too cautiously . It's kinda like being 2+ mins at 3x3. There's little to be gained from analysing solves until you're comfortable and competent with the solving process.

If you want to break it down, I recommend practising tracing alone. It's an essential and fundamental skill to read the sequence off the cube quickly and accurately, and easy to practise intensively without stressing the memory.


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## SpartanSailor (Jan 29, 2018)

pglewis said:


> Same issues here, we're being very careful almost as if we're doing mbld. The top guys memo under 10 seconds and though that may be nuts I figure if they can do that then I can do it in two and a half minutes. My execution splits were usually under 2 mins when I was practicing, even as green as I am, so memo under 3 and I'm in.


I am around 2 minutes for execution as well. I'm still using OP/OP. It's not efficient, but when I have my memo down, I can make pretty good times with T-perms and the slightly modified y-perms. I'm pretty confident with my set ups too... there are still a couple corners that I slow down to think about, but on the whole I'd say I'm about 6 mins to memo and 2 to execute. 

And I'm not stranger to DNFs when it comes to BLD! In fact, I'm surprised when I open my eyes and it's correctly solved!


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## SpartanSailor (Jan 29, 2018)

I tried to do 2 cubes for the weekly competition Multi-BLD... that was essentially pointless! I spent all my self-imposed time (20 min) trying to get my memo down. thinking I would "commit" the first to memory, I spent over 13 minutes just trying to get the 1st cube memo! LOL... it was fun, but I don't think I'll be making another attempt at more than 1 cube for quite some time.


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## pglewis (Jan 29, 2018)

mark49152 said:


> There's little to be gained from analysing solves until you're comfortable and competent with the solving process.



I don't save many sessions but this one was typical right before I switched the focus back to 3x3. Execution wasn't very fast but was reasonably consistent thanks to a lot of sighted execution practice. When I left off I was working on the tracing and pushing memo harder (thus all the DNFs). Solve 6 was a 4:50 and the notes say "off by 2 corners". So I think your suggestion of focused tracing practice is right on the money, getting the memo under 3 is job 1. Finding out how _far_ I can get it under 3 for some cushion is job 2.


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## pglewis (Jan 29, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> I tried to do 2 cubes for the weekly competition Multi-BLD... that was essentially pointless! I spent all my self-imposed time (20 min) trying to get my memo down. thinking I would "commit" the first to memory, I spent over 13 minutes just trying to get the 1st cube memo! LOL... it was fun, but I don't think I'll be making another attempt at more than 1 cube for quite some time.



Yeah I haven't made many multi attempts yet but I have managed untimed 2/2 and 2/3. A few more weeks of practice and things might be solidifying enough for you to try 'er again, you're very close to where I am on the learning scale. 

The journey method or "roman rooms" is a common method for multi blind. The way I'm using it is I have a series of real locations I know well that I can mentally visit in order. I have two key spots in each location, one for my corner memo and one for my edge memo (some people use more "spots" to track twisted/flipped pieces). In my living room, the corner memo goes on the couch and I visualize my first letter-pair image on the couch. Edge letter pair images are on the coffee table. When I'm done in my living room I move to my office where I'll have my corner memo on my desk. I have 10 rooms setup so I'm good for a while.


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## SpartanSailor (Jan 29, 2018)

pglewis said:


> Yeah I haven't made many multi attempts yet but I have managed untimed 2/2 and 2/3. A few more weeks of practice and things might be solidifying enough for you to try 'er again, you're very close to where I am on the learning scale.
> 
> The journey method or "roman rooms" is a common method for multi blind. The way I'm using it is I have a series of real locations I know well that I can mentally visit in order. I have two key spots in each location, one for my corner memo and one for my edge memo (some people use more "spots" to track twisted/flipped pieces). In my living room, the corner memo goes on the couch and I visualize my first letter-pair image on the couch. Edge letter pair images are on the coffee table. When I'm done in my living room I move to my office where I'll have my corner memo on my desk. I have 10 rooms setup so I'm good for a while.


I probably need to spend sometime figuring out how to make my memos efficiently or effectively. I tend to just trace the pieces and create some crazy sentence from the letters. I begin to loose track if I end up hitting my buffer more than once... then I struggle to remember which pieces I've already done and I begin loosing count of the number of targets (odd/even).

I know people use images and other memory aids, but I find that I spend more time thinking of an appropriate image than if I just commit the silly sentence to mind. I do memo corners first (fewer) to be sure I have even/odd targets. Then memo edges. For now, I do another full trace through to be sure I remember my corner memo.... Like I have said before, I'm NOT fast or efficient. Although, it's fun and that is why I do it.


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## JanW (Jan 29, 2018)

I've been working a bit on BLD recently as well. Accuracy is quite bad at the moment, about 20-30%, but most of the DNFs are off by one or two cycles, so it should hopefully improve quite quickly. Complete failures due to messed up setup moves are very rare. Memo usually takes 1-2 minutes, same for execution. Fastest solve today 2:33.

I don't know why, but I've always had problems during memo with blue corners. For some reason I often look at a blue sticker and trace it to the wrong place. Then I usually end up with impossible situations, like odd corner targets and even edge targets and have to search for my mistake. And for some even more weird reason, I have problems spotting the mistake if it's involving a blue corner. One memo took me over 5 minutes as I reviewed it again and again and again and again, until I finally noticed I had shot the blue/white/red corner piece to the blue/white/orange corner...


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## SpartanSailor (Jan 29, 2018)

Interesting... I sometimes shoot the red/white/blue corner to the red/white/GREEN location. But more frequently, I use the TOP sticker inadvertently during my corner memo (I use the URL corner for my buffer and the L sticker face). When I do that, I usually fail to notice until it's too late.


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## pglewis (Jan 29, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> I probably need to spend sometime figuring out how to make my memos efficiently or effectively. I tend to just trace the pieces and create some crazy sentence from the letters. I begin to loose track if I end up hitting my buffer more than once... then I struggle to remember which pieces I've already done and I begin loosing count of the number of targets (odd/even).
> 
> I know people use images and other memory aids, but I find that I spend more time thinking of an appropriate image than if I just commit the silly sentence to mind. I do memo corners first (fewer) to be sure I have even/odd targets. Then memo edges. For now, I do another full trace through to be sure I remember my corner memo.... Like I have said before, I'm NOT fast or efficient. Although, it's fun and that is why I do it.



The fastest people use "audio" memo for at least part of their 3bld memo because, despite what I do, 3bld is a speed event and they only have to keep the memo alive for a short time.

I personally use an image per letter pair. No need to explicitly track odd or even because I'll have a dangling single letter to signal. That just shifts the effort to collecting good images though, and that's a long patient game. But it doesn't take a lot of calories to remember Albert Einstein on Roller Skates and two images is basically half the length of a corner memo.

Tracing cycle breaks is a common difficulty at our stage. I suffer from it too, especially when I start to run out of fingers and I'm playing Twister during edge memo. It's the primary thing I need to work on to hit my May target. I've learned to free up some fingers when I've finished tracing a particular face and just remember that face is done. My approach right now is memo corners first and execute them last since it's shorter to retain. Memo corners, memo edges, execute edges, execute corners. Edge memo is longer but I only have to retain it through the first half of execution. For pure trace spamming I plan to just repeatedly trace without even memo-ing. I can squeeze a lot of tracing practice into a session that way and if tracing is smoother it'll all come down to assigning images quickly enough.


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## SpartanSailor (Jan 29, 2018)

@pglewis for example... what would "Albert Einstein on Roller Skates" represent? For me, that would be edges AE and RS... If that's the same for you, then perhaps it's just practice and hardwiring. I could use that memo, but I don't actually see anything... just the words, in my head. 

I have had a few memo's that worked out with my wife and/or kids in the "story" and that made it super easy for me.


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## pglewis (Jan 29, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> @pglewis for example... what would "Albert Einstein on Roller Skates" represent? For me, that would be edges AE and RS... If that's the same for you, then perhaps it's just practice and hardwiring. I could use that memo, but I don't actually see anything... just the words, in my head.
> 
> I have had a few memo's that worked out with my wife and/or kids in the "story" and that made it super easy for me.



Exactly, it would represent "AE RS" for me and thus might represent solving 4 edges with just two images (or arguably one image really, once combined). I personally try to concoct two short, ad-hoc "stories" involving the images: one for corners and one for edges. We're wired-up reasonably well for image memory but not so much for arbitrary symbols so the idea is to leverage that image memory.


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## newtonbase (Jan 29, 2018)

I'm finding that with more MBLD and 4BLD practice that I can fit a lot more into rooms than before. I'm not sure if this is because I'm getting better at strong, distinct images or that I know my rooms in more detail. 
I got a 4BLD into the first third of my old kitchen today.


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## Selkie (Jan 29, 2018)

Enough procrastination, 6 years since I had my last of very few successes at home, time to get to work!


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## SpartanSailor (Jan 29, 2018)

I have the same lettering scheme (I believe it is quite common), however, I use white on top and green facing front. BUT... I have a cube that is all lettered from when I first decided to beginning learning blind solving.


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## mark49152 (Jan 29, 2018)

newtonbase said:


> I'm finding that with more MBLD and 4BLD practice that I can fit a lot more into rooms than before. I'm not sure if this is because I'm getting better at strong, distinct images or that I know my rooms in more detail.
> I got a 4BLD into the first third of my old kitchen today.


Yeah I have found the same. It's quite surprising how strongly memo skills develop. Do you use rooms for 3BLD too?


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## newtonbase (Jan 29, 2018)

mark49152 said:


> Yeah I have found the same. It's quite surprising how strongly memo skills develop. Do you use rooms for 3BLD too?


No. My corner image doesn't need a location and edges are audio. I would quite like to go full audio but it's a bit of a stretch. I can do 4x4 centres with audio but I have to build it up which is too slow for 3x3.


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## mark49152 (Jan 30, 2018)

newtonbase said:


> No. My corner image doesn't need a location and edges are audio. I would quite like to go full audio but it's a bit of a stretch. I can do 4x4 centres with audio but I have to build it up which is too slow for 3x3.


I find I can recall corners more reliably if I put them in a room. If I'm doing a session of 20 I'll use my first 20 MBLD rooms, etc.

I'm not sure I could go full audio without changing my execution order, which I'm not keen to do, plus I think it would be a bit too much info. 4x4 centres is not that much more than 3x3 edges - maybe 16 on average so only marginally worse than a tough 3BLD.


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## SpartanSailor (Jan 30, 2018)

mark49152 said:


> I find I can recall corners more reliably if I put them in a room. If I'm doing a session of 20 I'll use my first 20 MBLD rooms, etc.
> 
> I'm not sure I could go full audio without changing my execution order, which I'm not keen to do, plus I think it would be a bit too much info. 4x4 centres is not that much more than 3x3 edges - maybe 16 on average so only marginally worse than a tough 3BLD.


20 multiple blind solves?!

Y’all are next level...


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## mark49152 (Jan 30, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> 20 multiple blind solves?!
> 
> Y’all are next level...


Not yet... Next level is always where we're trying to get to


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## pglewis (Jan 30, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> 20 multiple blind solves?!
> 
> Y’all are next level...



LOL... yeah, Mark is quite good to put it mildly and we have a number of blind solving heavy hitters in the oldies group. It's inspiring to watch and learn from these guys:


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## SpartanSailor (Jan 30, 2018)

pglewis said:


> LOL... yeah, Mark is quite good to put it mildly and we have a number of blind solving heavy hitters in the oldies group. It's inspiring to watch and learn from these guys:


Yeah.... that’s DEFINITELY a couple levels ahead of mine. 
Super impressive. Well done.


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## h2f (Jan 30, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> I tried to do 2 cubes for the weekly competition Multi-BLD... that was essentially pointless! I spent all my self-imposed time (20 min) trying to get my memo down. thinking I would "commit" the first to memory, I spent over 13 minutes just trying to get the 1st cube memo! LOL... it was fun, but I don't think I'll be making another attempt at more than 1 cube for quite some time.



Thats' awsome. Doing mbld helps a lot with 3bld and other blind events. My first mbld with 2 cubes was over 20 minutes.


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## Selkie (Jan 30, 2018)

Having started on OP corners yesterday which was easy enough to recall from years ago I had to spend some time just doing sighted corner only solves, then advancing to 2 look corners only and today culminating with 4 out of 4 full corners which I am pleased with. I have been using a combination of full Y perm and shorter Y perm so shooting to URF and RDF. Not sure if others do this or whether you just stick to one? Seemed easier to find easier setup moves for a mixture of both.

I am very conscious of getting demotivated from failure given my success rate of about 4 out of ~100 many years ago. Years ago I used OP for edges but can see the benefit of going straight to M2 now. I have watched a few M2 videos and understand all the basic concepts but just worried about the M slice alg cases and the swapping of targets on even counts for 4 of the M targets. I think I should just bite the bullet and spend time on M2 even if this will require more work but also very conscious that my tracing is really bad. I don't know my lettering system yet and having to find the letters at the moment by thinking of the first letter on a face and then counting round.

I suspect you will all say go M2 but be useful to know of any other tips apart from a bunch of sighted solves to improve my early tracing and recall of letters for targets.


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## SpartanSailor (Jan 30, 2018)

Selkie said:


> Having started on OP corners yesterday which was easy enough to recall from years ago I had to spend some time just doing sighted corner only solves, then advancing to 2 look corners only and today culminating with 4 out of 4 full corners which I am pleased with. I have been using a combination of full Y perm and shorter Y perm so shooting to URF and RDF. Not sure if others do this or whether you just stick to one? Seemed easier to find easier setup moves for a mixture of both.
> 
> I am very conscious of getting demotivated from failure given my success rate of about 4 out of ~100 many years ago. Years ago I used OP for edges but can see the benefit of going straight to M2 now. I have watched a few M2 videos and understand all the basic concepts but just worried about the M slice alg cases and the swapping of targets on even counts for 4 of the M targets. I think I should just bite the bullet and spend time on M2 even if this will require more work but also very conscious that my tracing is really bad. I don't know my lettering system yet and having to find the letters at the moment by thinking of the first letter on a face and then counting round.
> 
> I suspect you will all say go M2 but be useful to know of any other tips apart from a bunch of sighted solves to improve my early tracing and recall of letters for targets.



I have stayed with OP edges... Albeit, I only started a month ago. But, I rather enjoy how thoughtless it is for me to execute the T-perm (it's my favourite PLL, btw) and the setups are easy for me too. I'm still struggling to keep my tracing an memo straight. I think I'd become more confused and frustrated with the target swaps, etc...

I'm also not trying to become fast, rather, consistent. I'd like to consistently perform a successful solve under 6 or 7 minutes--and I only use that time constraint due to what I see as the available time at many competitions. 

For corners, I use the modified Y-perm for everything--except my "M" target sticker which happens to be UFR and the set up is the "F" move of the y-perm.


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## SpartanSailor (Jan 30, 2018)

QUESTION (not about BLD solving):
Why does the WCA track solves to the 3 decimal but only report final times to the 2nd? Case in point, I realize Feliks tied the WR for 3x3 over the weekend with a time of 4.59. However, in the 3rd decimal, it was slower.... I think he actual time was 4.599, but the WR was 4.591. Don't get me wrong, I fully expect him to come in well under 4.5xx very soon since he is becoming ever more consistent at the 4 second range. It just got me thinking about why they track 3 digits if it never plays into a record or official time. (To be honest, I've wondered this since my first competition...)


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## Selkie (Jan 30, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> QUESTION (not about BLD solving):
> Why does the WCA track solves to the 3 decimal but only report final times to the 2nd? Case in point, I realize Feliks tied the WR for 3x3 over the weekend with a time of 4.59. However, in the 3rd decimal, it was slower.... I think he actual time was 4.599, but the WR was 4.591. Don't get me wrong, I fully expect him to come in well under 4.5xx very soon since he is becoming ever more consistent at the 4 second range. It just got me thinking about why they track 3 digits if it never plays into a record or official time. (To be honest, I've wondered this since my first competition...)



I think it is simply because the new generation of stack mats started tracking 3 decimal places, the older gen 1 and 2 were 2 decimal places. Therefore the WCA database and all times set on the old gen stack mats were already 2 decimal places so it was decided to truncate the last digit for consistency. Score cards should be recorded to 2 decimal places but where it isnt even entry in CubeComps only accepts 2


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## Shaky Hands (Jan 30, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> For corners, I use the modified Y-perm for everything--except my "M" target sticker which happens to be UFR and the set up is the "F" move of the y-perm.



I guess you don't use Speffz? For those of us that do, UFR is C and RFU is M.


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## SpartanSailor (Jan 30, 2018)

Shaky Hands said:


> I guess you don't use Speffz? For those of us that do, UFR is C and RFU is M.


I do.... I am less familiar with the UFR/RFU notation. For me, the top sticker on the corner nearest me in my right hand is C. I use white on top and green facing me. So this sticker is the WHITE of the white/red/green corner piece. The RED sticker on that same corner piece is my "M". I think I typed UFR, but seems I meant RFU.


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## SpartanSailor (Jan 30, 2018)

Selkie said:


> I think it is simply because the new generation of stack mats started tracking 3 decimal places, the older gen 1 and 2 were 2 decimal places. Therefore the WCA database and all times set on the old gen stack mats were already 2 decimal places so it was decided to truncate the last digit for consistency. Score cards should be recorded to 2 decimal places but where it isnt even entry in CubeComps only accepts 2



Well.. that makes sense. Thanks!


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## Selkie (Jan 30, 2018)

Any of you fine blinders have any letter pair list resources you can recommend. I am making them up on the fly but struggling with long pauses trying to think of something vivid for some pair. I appreciate they are very personalised so for instance I have a very easy one for CQ as its the initials of someone I work with and others will use a similar thing on their own but there has to be some standard ones that I can blatantly steal as I build a Google sheet with my choices.


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## Shaky Hands (Jan 30, 2018)

@Selkie - https://www.speedsolving.com/wiki/index.php/List_of_letter_pairs, http://peoplebyinitials.com/


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## newtonbase (Jan 30, 2018)

DNFed this 3BLD. Would have been a 10s PB (not including the time it takes to flip the edge I missed). 
D' B U2 F' U2 F U' B R' B2 L B' L' U B D B' U F2 R2 B2 L2 R U B2


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## newtonbase (Jan 30, 2018)

This list is crowd sourced @Selkie 
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...JlZN2c4ixirdETeHmY5KzcTU7oo/edit?usp=drivesdk


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## Selkie (Jan 30, 2018)

Awesome stuff thank you @Shaky Hands and @newtonbase


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## newtonbase (Jan 30, 2018)

Selkie said:


> Awesome stuff thank you @Shaky Hands and @newtonbase


Also http://bestsiteever.ru/letterpairs


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## pglewis (Jan 30, 2018)

Selkie said:


> I suspect you will all say go M2 but be useful to know of any other tips apart from a bunch of sighted solves to improve my early tracing and recall of letters for targets.



M2 definitely introduces some complexity and trickier setup moves leading to fresh novel ways to get things wrong... but an M2 move as the buffer exchange is brilliant and it leads nicely to more advanced techniques whereas I consider OP edges to be a dead-end. I spent about 2 days' worth of session time practicing the mechanics and doing sighted M2 solves to get it reasonably comfortable vs. 1 day for OP corners. It ain't _that_ hard .

If you do decide to tackle it I highly suggest solving edges in pairs with sighted practice since the offset M slice can be confusing with the eyes open. Use a cheat sheet for the M slice algs and/or any setups for as long as you need. I think I/S are really the only tricky ones after just a little practice (C/W are short and easy). You'll have 'em down in no time, and once basic M2 execution is comfortable there are a couple tricks you can add that will solve two edges at a time when I or S are one of the targets and the other is non-M slice. I used to hate I and S targets, now I aim for them on cycle breaks.



SpartanSailor said:


> For me, the top sticker on the corner nearest me in my right hand is C. I use white on top and green facing me. So this sticker is the WHITE of the white/red/green corner piece. The RED sticker on that same corner piece is my "M".



I use the same orientation and I think you have it correct but may be swapping red/orange? I think the corner you're talking about would be white/ORANGE/green?

Edit: never mind... it's just MY dyslexia again, I'm yellow top



Selkie said:


> Any of you fine blinders have any letter pair list resources you can recommend.



This will deserve it's own thread but I'm now 100% motivated to work on a site where people can share letter pair images. I have lofty ideas to make it as useful as possible and will be looking for anyone with some tech/DB/design/coding skills to collaborate. This comes up about 1-2 weeks after every new blder gets going, it's a very niche thing but super useful if done right.


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## pglewis (Jan 30, 2018)

Oh, I got this lovely 3bld scramble last night but I was just doing tracing practice and not a full blown solve. Three solved edges on the right face (scrambled from solving orientation). L F R2 F B U L U B R2 U F2 R2 U L2 F2 D2 R2 U' Fw' Uw2


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## newtonbase (Jan 30, 2018)

pglewis said:


> Oh, I got this lovely 3bld scramble last night but I was just doing tracing practice and not a full blown solve. Three solved edges on the right face (scrambled from solving orientation). L F R2 F B U L U B R2 U F2 R2 U L2 F2 D2 R2 U' Fw' Uw2


Got a 1:30 bit should have been quicker.


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## pglewis (Jan 30, 2018)

Some of the details I've considered for a shared image database for brainstorming: 

* Import/export, needs to support XML, CSV, and JSON at a minimum

* Need a way to mark images as private. Some images will be personal and not useful for sharing and I'm sure there are some that people would simply rather keep private. 

* Cannot make assumptions about letter scheme, or even the alphabet used if possible. Internationalization is a somewhat weak area for me but I consider it vital for the non-native English speakers to have value as well. 

* Tagging/categorization system. Some people may be building PAO lists, so a faceted search that allows narrowing the results to actions would be great, as one example. 

* Some way to give preference to age and cultural bias. I'm an old guy and the actors or musicians that resonate for me are generally from the 70s to early 90s. The UK folks may have a great personality for a pair that doesn't mean anything to me or the Polish blders. Having a setting for general age and cultural bias might work to give preference to results that are more likely to mean something to you vs. a raw dump in arbitrary order.


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## SpartanSailor (Jan 30, 2018)

newtonbase said:


> Got a 1:30 bit should have been quicker.



I didn't time myself, but I ran the memo only twice and then did it right away... I'd be willing to bet I was WAY faster than my timed PB of 7:25.xx.


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## mark49152 (Jan 30, 2018)

pglewis said:


> Oh, I got this lovely 3bld scramble last night but I was just doing tracing practice and not a full blown solve. Three solved edges on the right face (scrambled from solving orientation). L F R2 F B U L U B R2 U F2 R2 U L2 F2 D2 R2 U' Fw' Uw2


53.43 but I did a wrong comm and had to undo/redo it. Should have been well sub-50.

Nice to see so much BLD talk on here recently, and awesome to see you starting up the BLD again @Selkie! 

Here's my first 20-attempt since mid-November. I expected dreadful accuracy but was pleasantly surprised. Am starting to ramp up MBLD practice again ahead of Guildford in March. I've spent the last few weeks replacing the majority of my corner comms with speed-optimal algs, and have avoided any other BLD practice because I knew I'd just revert to algs I'm comfortable with and that would disrupt my learning. After a ton of searching, learning, drilling and over 2000 corners-only solves, my corner execution is back to where it was, but with much better algs. This MBLD had pretty good accuracy and time, for me, but the best thing about it was that for the most part I used the new algs, with little hesitation and very few mistakes, and only a couple of reversions to old algs.


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## JanW (Jan 31, 2018)

pglewis said:


> Oh, I got this lovely 3bld scramble last night but I was just doing tracing practice and not a full blown solve. Three solved edges on the right face (scrambled from solving orientation). L F R2 F B U L U B R2 U F2 R2 U L2 F2 D2 R2 U' Fw' Uw2


I don't scramble in solving direction and one of the solved edges turned out to be my buffer, but nice scramble anyway! 2:20, which would be my fastest success since I started relearning bld this year.


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## h2f (Jan 31, 2018)

pglewis said:


> Oh, I got this lovely 3bld scramble last night but I was just doing tracing practice and not a full blown solve. Three solved edges on the right face (scrambled from solving orientation). L F R2 F B U L U B R2 U F2 R2 U L2 F2 D2 R2 U' Fw' Uw2



Wow. Awsome scramble: 40.83 [16.71]. Sadly it doesnt count as PB. For corners the comms were not bad (but not the best), but for edges all easy comms.


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## JanW (Jan 31, 2018)

2/3 MBld in 20:24 (a couple of small mistakes on 3rd cube). That would be good enough to get an official result, right? I know, I know, I've been talking forever about dragging myself to a comp... I promise, as soon as I get a 5/5 I'll sign up for the next one. 

My letter scheme is a bit odd. When I first learned blind I watched some youtube tutorial (probably Noah) and about a week or two later I decided to try some in practice. Then I made up my letter scheme like I remembered it was done in the video, but I guess my memory failed me that time. I don't go clockwise, I read the faces like a book, left -> right, rows up -> down. Corners on any given face are ordered UL-UR-DL-DR, edges U-L-R-D. My faces are also in different order than most people seem to do it. The order is U-L-R-F-B-D. Don't know the logic there or why I did it that way..

With that letter scheme and UF and UFR buffers, my buffers have the stickers DM and DNI. With D on both buffer pieces, it would never appear in memo, so a long time ago I replaced Q with D. That totally breaks all logic and order, but since it is the odd one out, it is the easiest letter to remember. 

My edge memo uses N but no M while corner memo uses M but no N. It wouldn't be much of a problem for me to replace M in corner memo with N, which would completely free up the letter M. Then I could for example replace X with M. Having M on the bottom face would be no problem. Again it would be a special case, easy to remember. However, I'm wondering if this would possibly cause trouble further down the road. That would mean I have only 22 letters, while most blinders use 24. Two letters less means 90 less letter pairs, a reduction of about 16%. If I ever get to the point where I'd be doing dozens of practice solves/day or large MBld attempts, maybe it is better to have a larger stock of images in use? Has anyone else here, or do you know of any top blinders who would have reduced the amount of letters in use from 24 to 23 or 22?


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## newtonbase (Jan 31, 2018)

Bizarre DNF


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## Mike Hughey (Jan 31, 2018)

JanW said:


> 2/3 MBld in 20:24 (a couple of small mistakes on 3rd cube). That would be good enough to get an official result, right? I know, I know, I've been talking forever about dragging myself to a comp... I promise, as soon as I get a 5/5 I'll sign up for the next one.


Yes, that's a valid result! Congratulations!


> My edge memo uses N but no M while corner memo uses M but no N. It wouldn't be much of a problem for me to replace M in corner memo with N, which would completely free up the letter M. Then I could for example replace X with M. Having M on the bottom face would be no problem. Again it would be a special case, easy to remember. However, I'm wondering if this would possibly cause trouble further down the road. That would mean I have only 22 letters, while most blinders use 24. Two letters less means 90 less letter pairs, a reduction of about 16%. If I ever get to the point where I'd be doing dozens of practice solves/day or large MBld attempts, maybe it is better to have a larger stock of images in use? Has anyone else here, or do you know of any top blinders who would have reduced the amount of letters in use from 24 to 23 or 22?


There are some BLDers who definitely use less than 24, and they often look at those of us with a full 24 or more as silly.  But big cubes kind of need 23 for wings and centers (and obliques for greater than 5x5x5), so there's that. And if you decide to do other weird puzzles, you may want even more than that - I have 30 for megaminx, and ideally you should really have 60 for megaminx (well, 59). But 60 x 60 images was too much for me.


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## mark49152 (Jan 31, 2018)

newtonbase said:


> Bizarre DNF


Looks like an r2 rather than l2 during centres, or something like that.

Regarding lettering, yes lots of people reduce or replace letters. Personally I don't, because there are too many cross-puzzle considerations, like Mike said. The important thing is to have an image come to mind immediately for every pair, without hesitation. Switching letters to fit your language might make it easier to come up with matching images in the first place, but if you rely on that during memo you've missed the point. Always use something like Anki to learn the associations so that you don't need to think about it during memo. Ultimately it doesn't matter how your image relates to the letters as long as you recall the association instantly. Prioritize making the images unique, distinct and memorable rather than matching them to letters. For me, IQ is a monocle because the letters look a bit like that. UQ is a sort of slug with a dog's head. X sometimes indicates dead things, like XK dead koala, sometimes it's a Roman numeral like in XV or XC, or sometimes it's a "sk" sound like XB scab. Q is sometimes a "sh" sound as in BQ bush. All of which are nice strong images for me. The infrequency with which the letter combination occurs in language is completely irrelevant once you have an image set learned.


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## JanW (Jan 31, 2018)

mark49152 said:


> Switching letters to fit your language might make it easier to come up with matching images in the first place, but if you rely on that during memo you've missed the point. Always use something like Anki to learn the associations so that you don't need to think about it during memo.


Heh.. this has always been my main problem. I get inspired to do blind once or twice a year, then I relearn it, work my times down to about 2 minutes, decide to finally make a full list of words/images for my letter pairs and ... that's where it stops. I have a partial list in a spreadsheet I started years ago, but whenever I try to complete it, the task feels too overwhelming and daunting. With that in mind, maybe it could be a good idea to remove one more letter from my repertoire, which would make that project feel a bit easier. Possibly enough that I would some day complete it. I do understand the concerns with big blinds, but I'm really not sure if I'll ever get there. I've never been that interested in big cubes anyway, neither sighted or bld. MBld is much more appealing to me than big blinds.


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## pglewis (Jan 31, 2018)

JanW said:


> Heh.. this has always been my main problem. I get inspired to do blind once or twice a year, then I relearn it, work my times down to about 2 minutes, decide to finally make a full list of words/images for my letter pairs and ... that's where it stops. I have a partial list in a spreadsheet I started years ago, but whenever I try to complete it, the task feels too overwhelming and daunting. With that in mind, maybe it could be a good idea to remove one more letter from my repertoire, which would make that project feel a bit easier. Possibly enough that I would some day complete it. I do understand the concerns with big blinds, but I'm really not sure if I'll ever get there. I've never been that interested in big cubes anyway, neither sighted or bld. MBld is much more appealing to me than big blinds.



I don't think eliminating one more letter is a huge optimization win, 22x22 is still approaching 500. This is exactly what I'm hoping to be able to address with a the shared image database brainstorming I posted yesterday.


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## pglewis (Jan 31, 2018)

pglewis said:


> Some of the details I've considered for a shared image database for brainstorming:
> 
> * Import/export, needs to support XML, CSV, and JSON at a minimum
> 
> ...



The main idea here being a site that has all your images. It would allow you to search all public images others have out there for a letter pair and add new ones to your list with a single click. 

Another must have would be a flash-card exercise for your personal images (taking the role of what we use Anki for)


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## JanW (Jan 31, 2018)

I'll try to switch tactics with the word list. So far I've been sitting down with the list trying to come up with images, which just doesn't work for me. Instead I'll keep it open in the background while practicing bld and after every solve I can add any good images I've come up with during the last solve. This way it should hopefully gradually fill up and at some point I can figure out the missing ones. In general, I feel like I'm coming up with much better images on the fly while solving than I can think of while staring at an excel spreadsheet.


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## mark49152 (Jan 31, 2018)

@JanW: I did kind of the opposite. Every time I struggled with a pair I highlighted the cell red. Then went searching other people's lists and other resources until I had the hard ones covered.


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## openseas (Jan 31, 2018)

pglewis said:


> I don't think eliminating one more letter is a huge optimization win, 22x22 is still approaching 500. This is exactly what I'm hoping to be able to address with a the shared image database brainstorming I posted yesterday.



Actually, it can be a huge factor for 3BLD. Certain letters (like Q, Z, K, X) are not easy to come up with decent images or can get confused due to the similarity of the sound (Q vs K vs C) - I don't use these for 3BLD (many top cubers are similar).

But as @Mike Hughey mentioned, you need all 23 for big blds - so I have list of letter pairs for all possible combinations for big blds.


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## SpartanSailor (Jan 31, 2018)

openseas said:


> Actually, it can be a huge factor for 3BLD. Certain letters (like Q, Z, K, X) are not easy to come up with decent images or can get confused due to the similarity of the sound (Q vs K vs C) - I don't use these for 3BLD (many top cubers are similar).
> 
> But as @Mike Hughey mentioned, you need all 23 for big blds - so I have list of letter pairs for all possible combinations for big blds.


very interesting.... of course, my VAST experience of 32 days of learning BLD has taught me so much.

I actually don't mind Q, K and X. I don't have a Z for my 3BLD (and haven't even pretended to do 4BLD...). But "Q" in particular is something I try to get in my memo if I can.


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## newtonbase (Jan 31, 2018)

I really need to do more work on my list. It gets more and more sparse as I move through the alphabet.

3 4BLD DNFs today. Only one recall error. I think it's my centre execution that's letting me down the most. Just needs more practice. 5BLD by Manchester is looking like a stretch at the moment.


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## JanW (Jan 31, 2018)

mark49152 said:


> @JanW: I did kind of the opposite. Every time I struggled with a pair I highlighted the cell red. Then went searching other people's lists and other resources until I had the hard ones covered.


I suppose it will eventually get to that for the last ones. But right now my written list is only around 10% complete, there are so many easy slots to fill still.


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## mark49152 (Feb 1, 2018)

JanW said:


> I suppose it will eventually get to that for the last ones. But right now my written list is only around 10% complete, there are so many easy slots to fill still.


Which are the pairs that mess up your solves, easy or hard?


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## JanW (Feb 1, 2018)

mark49152 said:


> Which are the pairs that mess up your solves, easy or hard?


Not sure if I understand exactly what you mean. Since we are talking memo, no pairs should be messing up my solves, but those that are harder to find a word for slow the solves down. I haven't kept any statistics over particular pairs that mess up my solves during execution, but there are a couple of usual suspects. Two types of edge cycles I often shoot in the wrong direction. And since I still work out all the cycles on the fly, a few edge cycles that are a bit tricky and slow me down quite a bit. I really should learn proper algs for those. Corner comms are pretty solid, most mistakes are in edges.


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## mark49152 (Feb 1, 2018)

JanW said:


> Not sure if I understand exactly what you mean.


I was just questioning the logic of leaving the hard pairs until the end, when those are the ones that slow you down. Sure, in my sheet I have filled out CT cat and DG dog, but only because I feel instinctively compelled to make the sheet complete . I never looked at those cells again. The ones that offer potential improvement to your solves and are worth the time to note down, search for images for, and study with Anki etc. are the difficult ones. So IMHO those are logically a higher priority.


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## mitja (Feb 1, 2018)

mark49152 said:


> I was just questioning the logic of leaving the hard pairs until the end, when those are the ones that slow you down. Sure, in my sheet I have filled out CT cat and DG dog, but only because I feel instinctively compelled to make the sheet complete . I never looked at those cells again. The ones that offer potential improvement to your solves and are worth the time to note down, search for images for, and study with Anki etc. are the difficult ones. So IMHO those are logically a higher priority.


It is hard for me to join the images discussion as I don't do them in English. My list would not fit. But, I have some questions that interest me. Do you use any strict procedure for putting images in the rooms. Like the sequence people-action-object, is it always in the same order? Is it a 3 letter pair package? My problem is that I try to use the strict procedure, but then i come to a letter pair that would fit better with object then action. Then I adjust but my pattern gets different. Do you have any recomendation?
Also, because i am quite new to 3-4BLD i still try to decide the approach, particulary with languages. I was thinking to use more then one language. Centres-corners-wings would be slovenian-english-slovenian or serbian-slovenian-english. I can play with words in different languages( grammar would't be that good). Serbian is known in our area as the best language for comic books using many colourfull words.
But for speed I rather use my own language.


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## JanW (Feb 1, 2018)

mark49152 said:


> I was just questioning the logic of leaving the hard pairs until the end, when those are the ones that slow you down. Sure, in my sheet I have filled out CT cat and DG dog, but only because I feel instinctively compelled to make the sheet complete . I never looked at those cells again. The ones that offer potential improvement to your solves and are worth the time to note down, search for images for, and study with Anki etc. are the difficult ones. So IMHO those are logically a higher priority.


Logically that would be the case. But since I've already tried that approach several times, and every time I find I lose interest in bld, I want to try the alternative approach. It does not necessarily mean the hard pairs are left to the end. I might very well come up with some good ideas to those on the fly. I do feel I come up with better images during solves than if I think of a specific letter pair in isolation. I guess this is because during a solve the letter pair is usually put in some context, as I try to make a connection between the letter pairs. Thinking of a letter pair in a given context or in relation to some other place/person/thing fuels the imagination.


----------



## mark49152 (Feb 1, 2018)

mitja said:


> Do you use any strict procedure for putting images in the rooms. Like the sequence people-action-object, is it always in the same order? Is it a 3 letter pair package?


I tried a strict structure and it didn't work for me. As you said, the image sequence doesn't always fit naturally into a predetermined structure.

I use 5 images per scene and just concoct whatever story/scene fits the images best. There are some rules I try to follow when I see that I'm likely to recall some pairs out of order. For example, AD CP SU might be Adam gives a cup to Sue. Or AD SU CP might be Adam gives Sue a cup. So if I picture that scene, I could recall it either way and make a mistake. So I have a rule where if the object occurs as the middle pair it is given, and if after the people it is shown. So for AD CP SU Adam stands opposite Sue and hands her a cup. For AD SU CP Adam shows Sue a cup - both stand together the same side of the cup and Adam points at it.

I use many small rules and patterns like that to help with accurate recall.


----------



## mitja (Feb 1, 2018)

mark49152 said:


> I tried a strict structure and it didn't work for me. As you said, the image sequence doesn't always fit naturally into a predetermined structure.
> 
> I use 5 images per scene and just concoct whatever story/scene fits the images best. There are some rules I try to follow when I see that I'm likely to recall some pairs out of order. For example, AD CP SU might be Adam gives a cup to Sue. Or AD SU CP might be Adam gives Sue a cup. So if I picture that scene, I could recall it either way and make a mistake. So I have a rule where if the object occurs as the middle pair it is given, and if after the people it is shown. So for AD CP SU Adam stands opposite Sue and hands her a cup. For AD SU CP Adam shows Sue a cup - both stand together the same side of the cup and Adam points at it.
> 
> I use many small rules and patterns like that to help with accurate recall.


Thanks, this sounds very logical, i will try it.


----------



## h2f (Feb 1, 2018)

@mitja, just try if mixing languages works for you. Many blinders do this. The main factor is if it made strong image.

Looking at your first question. It's up of what bld event I do. In 3bld I try to connect all images in one long sentence. It may be build of two sentences but I try to connect them.


----------



## newtonbase (Feb 1, 2018)

I'm still quite fluid in how many words I use per location but there are at least three. Adjectives always come before nouns. First words are always on top or to the left if what follows. 
AD CP SU would have Adam on the left of the cup and Sue on the right. I might have Adam holding a cup with a picture of Sue on it. AD SU CP would have Adam pushing Sue into a cup.


----------



## newtonbase (Feb 1, 2018)

This just happened. Finally.


----------



## h2f (Feb 1, 2018)

@newtonbase, congrats!


----------



## mitja (Feb 1, 2018)

@newtonbase
yeah!


----------



## mark49152 (Feb 1, 2018)

Congrats Mark! Well done


----------



## pglewis (Feb 1, 2018)

I'm having absolutely no problems assigning images to my pairs right now... but that's only because I'm skipping memo and just jotting it down . Tracing is my primary focus but execution needs to be shored-up after the hiatus so I'm doing those two without memo practice for as long as it takes. 

Congrats @newtonbase, is that "achievement unlocked"? I sort of assumed you've had a 4bld success in the past and were getting back into it.


----------



## newtonbase (Feb 1, 2018)

pglewis said:


> Congrats @newtonbase, is that "achievement unlocked"? I sort of assumed you've had a 4bld success in the past and were getting back into it.


This is my very first time and has taken too long to happen. Plenty more work to do on it.


----------



## openseas (Feb 2, 2018)

@newtonbase / Congrats! Super!!!


----------



## muchacho (Feb 2, 2018)

Congrats @newtonbase

OH PB single: 16.944 (was 17.806 from 6 weeks ago)



Spoiler



10601 02-feb-2018 10:40:38 00:16.944 U B2 D' L2 B2 U F2 D R2 D2 U2 L' B' R2 U2 B R' B2 D B
x2 y
Lw' Uw2 L' U L M2 Lw' U' Lw' z2
U Lw U Lw2 M' U2 M2 U2 Lw U Lw' M U' M2 U2 Lw' U' Lw
M' U2 M' U2 M U M' U2 M U2 M' U M2 U' M U2 M'
44 STM
2.60 TPS



edit: Also Mo100 PB: 26.190 (was 26.523 from a week ago)


Spoiler



10685 02-feb-2018 16:43:15 00:28.742 B2 D2 L2 U' R2 U' B2 U2 R2 B R2 F R' B' L U' F U R
10684 02-feb-2018 16:42:31 00:25.278 D2 U F2 R2 F2 U' R2 U B2 D L' U' R F' R' B' L' F' L' U2
10683 02-feb-2018 16:41:30 00:20.094 F2 L2 F2 D R2 D U L2 F2 U B' R' D' R' D2 B' R D' B2 D' U'
10682 02-feb-2018 16:40:45 00:26.063 U L2 U R2 D F2 D' L2 D' R2 F L2 B' D' F2 U' L2 B' U2 R U
10681 02-feb-2018 16:39:52 00:33.671 B2 L2 D' B2 D' L2 D' F2 U' B2 D' L' F R2 F U' B' R' B2 L' F U2
10680 02-feb-2018 16:39:09 00:20.022 B2 D2 R2 U' R2 L2 D F2 D2 R2 U2 R B D2 L B R D U' R2 B U2
10679 02-feb-2018 16:38:27 00:19.198 B2 D2 F2 D U2 L2 F2 U2 L2 U' B' F2 R' L' B' U L' D' L' B' U
10678 02-feb-2018 16:37:41 00:25.167 R2 B2 L2 D U B2 U L2 B2 F2 D2 L' D B2 L2 B D' F' R' B' F'
10677 02-feb-2018 16:36:52 00:26.175 L2 U2 F2 D' B2 U' F2 R2 B2 U B D2 L2 U2 L' D' U2 L2 F L D2
10676 02-feb-2018 16:36:03 00:28.999 L2 F2 L2 B2 D2 F2 U' L2 F2 U B2 L D' B D' F' L2 U2 B2 R' D U'
10675 02-feb-2018 16:35:13 00:30.487 D' F2 U2 L2 U R2 U2 B2 L2 B2 U L U B2 U' L2 B' R L' U B2 L'
10674 02-feb-2018 16:34:24 00:24.895 L2 U2 L2 F2 U B2 U2 B2 U' L' B R L B2 D' R B U' L2
10673 02-feb-2018 16:33:43 00:22.998 B2 R2 D B2 F2 U R2 U' R2 L2 D2 L' U2 R' D' L2 F U' L U B'
10672 02-feb-2018 16:33:03 00:21.559 F2 D F2 D' R2 L2 B2 L2 U R2 U2 L F' D' F' R2 B2 U L B F
10671 02-feb-2018 16:31:39 00:23.581 D2 B2 L2 F2 R2 D U' R2 D B2 R2 B D' U2 F U R' D F R2 D2
10670 02-feb-2018 16:30:52 00:27.486 R2 U2 R2 D' B2 D' U2 F2 D L2 U2 R D' U L' B F2 U' R2 D' F D
10669 02-feb-2018 16:30:09 00:23.662 B2 F2 D' R2 B2 D' U2 F2 R2 L2 U' L' B' U2 L' U2 F2 R' U2 F D U'
10668 02-feb-2018 16:29:26 00:22.303 F2 R2 U' R2 D' F2 R2 U2 R2 U2 B2 L' F' R' D R2 U2 L F' R L2
10667 02-feb-2018 16:28:36 00:30.558 R2 D U2 B2 R2 B2 F2 U2 B2 L2 U' R B2 F' U2 R F U R' B L2 U
10666 02-feb-2018 16:27:43 00:29.806 U2 R2 D B2 U' F2 D' R2 U2 F2 U L D' U2 L' B' L' F' D' U' L'
10665 02-feb-2018 16:26:57 00:27.134 U' F2 U R2 D' R2 U' F2 D R2 U2 L U' B L' D R2 U' F2 D' L
10664 02-feb-2018 16:26:10 00:29.678 B2 R2 F2 D B2 R2 D' U2 L2 F2 D' B' R2 B' R' D' U' R' F D2 R'
10663 02-feb-2018 16:25:23 00:26.406 R2 U' L2 U L2 U2 F2 L2 B2 U2 F2 L F U2 F' R D' F' L' B L' U2
10662 02-feb-2018 16:24:39 00:22.886 F2 U F2 U' F2 R2 D2 F2 U R2 D L' U' F U' B D' F2 L U' B U2
10661 02-feb-2018 16:23:51 00:30.158 B2 U2 R2 B2 U L2 D' F2 D' L2 D2 B U2 F2 U2 R2 U R B2 L' D'
10660 02-feb-2018 16:23:05 00:26.855 D R2 U' R2 L2 F2 D' L2 F2 D2 F2 R' F' D2 U2 R' D F' U B2 L D'
10659 02-feb-2018 16:22:23 00:27.078 D' B2 R2 U2 R2 F2 L2 D L2 D' R2 B' L U' L' D L2 F R F
10658 02-feb-2018 16:21:34 00:29.006 L2 B2 L2 U' F2 D R2 U2 R2 F2 L2 F' D R L2 F D R2 L' F' L' U'
10657 02-feb-2018 16:20:50 00:25.822 L2 U2 B2 U' R2 D2 B2 R2 D R2 U B U' L D' B' F' R2 L F2 U2
10656 02-feb-2018 16:20:04 00:27.486 U' B2 U' R2 F2 L2 F2 D' B2 U B2 L B2 R2 L' B' R2 D' B' L2 D U'
10655 02-feb-2018 16:19:18 00:26.671 L2 B2 D F2 U' F2 L2 B2 F2 U F2 R' F2 U' B D F D B2 F2 L U
10654 02-feb-2018 16:18:22 00:34.661 D B2 D2 L2 D F2 D2 F' D' L2 U2 B F R' F2 R'
10653 02-feb-2018 16:14:06 00:24.286 U R2 F2 R2 L2 U' B2 L2 U2 B2 D' F R2 U' L D' B R' F D2 U
10652 02-feb-2018 16:13:15 00:29.597 U2 B2 L2 U R2 U' L2 D2 R2 L2 U' F R2 D' F' R' F' L2 B' F2 R D'
10651 02-feb-2018 16:12:21 00:29.302 F2 D2 L2 F2 U B2 D2 L2 D' B2 R F2 L2 F R2 L' D' L2 F' U'
10650 02-feb-2018 16:11:31 00:23.983 D' F2 U2 R2 B2 F2 D2 L2 B2 U' L2 F L B2 D F U' L D' R2
10649 02-feb-2018 16:10:44 00:22.408 D R2 F2 D2 U B2 D' F2 R2 F2 U2 R' U' B' R' B' D2 R2 B' R F2 U2
10648 02-feb-2018 16:09:58 00:27.165 R2 F2 D F2 D2 R2 B2 U' F2 D F' L' B D U2 F U B2 F2
10647 02-feb-2018 16:09:11 00:27.462 U' L2 D' F2 D' F2 R2 B2 L2 F2 U2 R' B' D2 U F2 R F2 D' U2 R U2
10646 02-feb-2018 16:08:21 00:24.167 R2 D2 R2 L2 U' L2 D2 B2 L2 D L B U2 L2 B2 D' B' R' F' D'
10645 02-feb-2018 16:07:36 00:24.254 R2 D L2 D' B2 U' L2 B2 R2 U' R2 B R B U' R D B F' L' U'
10644 02-feb-2018 16:06:53 00:24.102 R2 D' L2 F2 D R2 U B2 D' F2 U2 F L F D2 R2 F' D U2 B' R U'
10643 02-feb-2018 16:05:58 00:30.030 R2 L2 U2 L2 D' L2 F2 U' B2 D B2 R D L' B2 R2 B D' F2 U' R2 U
10642 02-feb-2018 16:05:11 00:21.079 L2 D' F2 D R2 F2 U2 L2 U' R2 U B R L2 U2 B2 F' R' F R2 D' U
10641 02-feb-2018 16:03:47 00:21.686 D2 R2 B2 F2 D' U' F2 L2 U R2 U F' L D' R F2 L U' F L2 D
10640 02-feb-2018 16:03:00 00:24.103 F2 U R2 B2 D' R2 U2 F2 L2 F2 L2 B' D' F2 R' U B2 F' U' L'
10639 02-feb-2018 16:02:09 00:34.046 R2 B2 U' B2 L2 D B2 D2 F2 U' L F D B' U F D F' U2 R B U2
10638 02-feb-2018 16:01:18 00:24.470 D' U2 F2 R2 B2 F2 U2 L2 U R2 U' B' R' F' D' L' D2 F L2 D2 B' D2
10637 02-feb-2018 16:00:31 00:30.463 R2 L2 U' L2 U2 F2 D' F2 R2 B2 L2 F' R' F2 U' F' D2 B' F2 U' R'
10636 02-feb-2018 15:59:47 00:23.287 B2 R2 B2 L2 U2 L2 D B2 R2 L2 U L' D' B' U' R' F' D' L' B2 D U2
10635 02-feb-2018 15:58:21 00:26.445 D F2 D F2 L2 B2 L2 F2 D F2 D F' L B R2 D2 R' D2 U' B2 R U
10634 02-feb-2018 15:57:38 00:26.222 R2 D F2 U2 L2 U' F2 R2 U2 F2 U' B D B D2 L2 F' L B' U' F'
10633 02-feb-2018 15:56:37 00:40.256 R2 D F2 D2 L2 D' B2 R2 B2 F2 D' F B2 L' B2 R U R2 F' L' B2 U'
10632 02-feb-2018 15:55:53 00:23.543 F2 D' U2 F2 U B2 R2 U B2 F2 U F' U' R' B' F L' U2 F' L D2 L
10631 02-feb-2018 15:55:05 00:23.832 U2 B2 L2 D2 B2 D' F2 U F2 U2 L2 B' U' B' D L B' D F2 R' F
10630 02-feb-2018 15:54:15 00:28.775 F2 D' R2 F2 U2 L2 B2 U' R2 F2 D2 R' U2 L D' L2 D' B' D2 F' R2
10629 02-feb-2018 15:53:27 00:28.270 L2 F2 D' L2 D R2 L2 F2 U' F2 D L B' D F R' B2 F' D2 U F'
10628 02-feb-2018 15:52:39 00:27.102 D' L2 D2 L2 D' F2 D L2 D' L2 U2 R' F' L' F2 D' B2 L' B' F' R
10627 02-feb-2018 15:51:50 00:30.550 R2 D2 L2 D B2 U2 L2 U B2 L' B' F2 D' L' B D2 R' B2 U2 L2
10626 02-feb-2018 15:51:00 00:30.966 R2 U2 B2 U L2 B2 U L2 B2 U2 R' D' L U' F R2 F L2 D' L2
10625 02-feb-2018 15:50:15 00:24.263 D' B2 U F2 U F2 R2 L2 U' B L' D2 R' B D R' B F D' U'
10624 02-feb-2018 15:49:37 00:21.807 L2 U B2 U2 B2 R2 D L2 U' B2 U B L2 D U R' F U' L' B D' B2
10623 02-feb-2018 15:48:56 00:18.247 D' U2 R2 U R2 B2 L2 U' L2 F2 U' L B2 F' R2 D F' D2 B' R' D
10622 02-feb-2018 15:48:12 00:25.750 R2 F2 U' R2 F2 L2 B2 L2 U L2 U2 F' L2 D' U R B2 L2 U' B2
10621 02-feb-2018 15:47:20 00:31.430 F2 D F2 R2 D' L2 U B2 D' F2 U2 F' R B2 U2 B2 U2 B U2
10620 02-feb-2018 15:46:31 00:27.214 F2 L2 U2 L2 U' R2 U B2 U' B2 R2 F' L' B D2 B' L' F D B R' U'
10619 02-feb-2018 15:45:51 00:22.207 R2 L2 D' F2 D R2 D2 R2 L2 B2 L2 F D F2 R' F2 D2 R B' F R2
10618 02-feb-2018 15:44:59 00:26.735 D U R2 D2 L2 D' F2 U L2 F2 L B' R' B2 D' F2 D' U' R U2
10617 02-feb-2018 15:44:13 00:30.390 U L2 U2 R2 D R2 U R2 F2 D' U' B U R2 L F' D' R D' U2 L U
10616 02-feb-2018 15:43:33 00:24.064 D' R2 L2 U' L2 D' F2 U2 B2 L2 F' U2 F2 R' D' L B2 R D2 R D
10615 02-feb-2018 15:42:49 00:24.663 U2 R2 D' F2 L2 D' R2 D' L2 B2 D2 F' L' F R F' L' B2 F2 L' D'
10614 02-feb-2018 15:42:00 00:27.573 D' R2 U F2 U L2 D2 B2 F2 U' B2 L' B U2 F R' D2 F2 L2 D B2
10613 02-feb-2018 15:41:02 00:38.144 R2 F2 U F2 D' U B2 R2 U' B2 D B R' B2 F L D' B R U2 F2 U2
10612 02-feb-2018 11:18:33 00:26.182 D B2 U' F2 U' L2 B2 U F2 D R2 B' R' D L' U' R2 D' B F2 L2 U'
10611 02-feb-2018 11:17:43 00:28.542 D L2 U2 R2 D F2 D2 U' F2 L2 U F' D B2 R U' F' D' L B2 F' U'
10610 02-feb-2018 11:16:59 00:23.525 L2 F2 U' R2 B2 D2 U' B2 D2 B2 L2 B R' U' L U' B2 F R F2 U2
10609 02-feb-2018 11:16:08 00:33.445 R2 L2 D' L2 F2 U2 R2 D' F2 D' U2 B L' U' R' F' D L' B2 F2 L U2
10608 02-feb-2018 11:14:24 00:25.254 B2 D' R2 U' L2 U L2 D L2 U R2 B' R' F' U' B L D U B L' D
10607 02-feb-2018 11:13:43 00:24.943 F2 U' L2 B2 R2 D R2 U F2 D F' L2 B L' U R' D' U2 B2 L'
10606 02-feb-2018 11:13:01 00:18.799 D R2 U R2 U' F2 D' U2 L2 U F2 R' F D U' B L2 D' R' F' R2
10605 02-feb-2018 11:11:16 00:25.567 L2 D2 F2 L2 U L2 D U L2 F2 U F D' L2 D R' D2 B2 R' D U
10604 02-feb-2018 11:10:34 00:23.287 U' R2 D' F2 D R2 U' L2 U R2 B2 R' U' R2 B' L2 F L B' R B U'
10603 02-feb-2018 11:09:46 00:25.927 U L2 U2 L2 U' F2 D R2 B2 U' F2 L' D' F R' B2 R' D U B2 F L'
10602 02-feb-2018 11:08:54 00:24.455 L2 B2 U B2 D' U' B2 D' F2 R2 B2 L' F R' D2 L' U' F U2 B2 L2
10601 02-feb-2018 10:40:38 00:16.944 U B2 D' L2 B2 U F2 D R2 D2 U2 L' B' R2 U2 B R' B2 D B
10600 01-feb-2018 11:15:49 00:27.887 F2 U' B2 D B2 U' R2 B2 D R2 F2 L' B R B2 D F' D2 L2 B L' U
10599 01-feb-2018 11:15:07 00:20.231 F2 R2 D2 R2 F2 D' B2 L2 U' F2 L2 F' D2 B R B' U L2 D' L' B'
10598 01-feb-2018 11:14:15 00:26.262 U' B2 U' F2 D' B2 R2 F2 D2 F2 U B F2 L2 D U B F2 R' F U' L
10597 01-feb-2018 11:13:30 00:27.026 U' F2 R2 D F2 U' B2 U' B2 R2 D2 L D' B' U' F' R B R' D' L D2
10596 01-feb-2018 11:12:44 00:22.928 U L2 D U2 R2 L2 F2 R2 D' L2 U' F R B' L F' R' U L' U2 L'
10595 01-feb-2018 11:11:50 00:32.062 L2 U' R2 D' R2 U F2 U' L2 F2 D F' U2 R' L2 F U F U' F2 D L'
10594 01-feb-2018 11:10:57 00:26.384 B2 L2 D' R2 B2 R2 L2 D' B2 D' B2 L' F' D2 L2 D' L B L' U' B U'
10593 01-feb-2018 11:10:06 00:27.295 R2 B2 L2 D F2 D2 F2 U L2 B' R D' L' U R L U F2 U'
10592 01-feb-2018 11:09:30 00:20.287 D' L2 F2 L2 U2 R2 F2 D' F2 D2 F2 R' F2 R2 F' U2 L2 D B2 R L' U'
10591 01-feb-2018 11:08:37 00:27.487 U L2 F2 L2 F2 U B2 U' F2 D L' B2 R' D2 F' D' B D L2 U2
10590 01-feb-2018 11:07:48 00:25.903 L2 B2 F2 D' L2 D2 R2 D B2 D' U2 B' R U2 L B R' D2 F' L' D' U2
10589 01-feb-2018 11:07:00 00:26.247 D2 F2 D F2 R2 U F2 L2 B2 R2 U' L' B' L' U2 R2 F R' B R2
10588 01-feb-2018 11:06:13 00:27.406 D' F2 U' L2 B2 U2 R2 F2 D2 F2 U' L F' U' F R F D' U F' L U'
10587 01-feb-2018 11:05:29 00:21.775 U2 F2 U B2 F2 L2 U B2 D' F2 U' B R2 U L2 F2 D' L' U B F2
10586 01-feb-2018 11:04:44 00:24.063 L2 U R2 D' R2 B2 U F2 D U2 L2 B R' D U R' B' F2 L' U2 R


----------



## JanW (Feb 2, 2018)

Generated By csTimer on 2018-2-2
single: 11.98

Time List:
1. 11.98 R' D2 B U F' U R2 F' R D2 F2 R2 F2 R2 D B2 D2 L2 F2 L2

PB single with complete LL skip. Overall it felt like a not very good solve, probably made some extra moves at some point which makes reconstruction close to impossible. I'm confident I can beat this soon with a better solve and just a PLL skip.


----------



## Selkie (Feb 2, 2018)

Awesome work, congratulations @newtonbase


----------



## SpartanSailor (Feb 2, 2018)

@newtonbase FANTASTIC! Congratulations


----------



## pglewis (Feb 2, 2018)

The timing is perfect to shift the focus to blind solving, my sighted solves are over the hump at this point. I did a rare Ao50 last week, under 28 for the first time and I expect it to be a second+ faster in another month of normal practice. 

I threw out 3 botched solves from a short session last night just to get an idea of where my time distribution trend is since I'm more interested in that than my general average. Definitely seeing exactly what I was hoping to see, nearly a bell curve around :23 and then a pile just under :30, which is mostly still due to slow OLL recog and AUF. Those used to be ~33 and should continue to move on their own with normal practice. Could be 2 months, could be next week, but I'm right at the brink of my next breakthrough.


----------



## SpartanSailor (Feb 2, 2018)

I had a recent good run as well. I really feel like I've made a "jump", but nothing that actually translates. I feel more consistent at slightly faster times and hope that translates to an improved PB single and Ao5 for my 3x3 this next weekend, Feb 11. I sometimes feel like my 3x3 improves when I do a lot of 4x4 practice. Kind of weird, but hopefully both of those go well next weekend.


----------



## h2f (Feb 2, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> Kind of weird, but hopefully both of those go well next weekend.



Doing big cubes helps in 3x3 progress.


----------



## pglewis (Feb 2, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> I had a recent good run as well. I really feel like I've made a "jump", but nothing that actually translates. I feel more consistent at slightly faster times and hope that translates to an improved PB single and Ao5 for my 3x3 this next weekend, Feb 11. I sometimes feel like my 3x3 improves when I do a lot of 4x4 practice. Kind of weird, but hopefully both of those go well next weekend.



I'm basically just coming back around from regressing to learn full OLL. Before that trip I was averaging around :28 overall and have been waiting for OLL to come together before bothering to track any sessions longer than about a dozen. Beating that old Ao50 means my solves with 1-look OLL are now faster than my 2-look was and I even tanked the end of that session with like 5 of the last 10 solves over :30. I doubt I'll hit a comp before Great Lakes in May, so 3x3 should be very safe PBs for me if I keep my wits, all my nerves will be tied up in blind anyway. 

3x3 definitely seems so dinky and simple after playing with a bigger cube for a couple hours. I swear a couple days of 3bld practice magically makes my sighted solves faster and more consistent too. Good luck at comp next weekend!


----------



## Jason Green (Feb 2, 2018)

h2f said:


> Doing big cubes helps in 3x3 progress.


Most people seem to think so but it never works for me. I always take some time to get back to normal if I've been doing other stuff a while. 

And congrats @newtonbase that's awesome!


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## newtonbase (Feb 2, 2018)

A question for the 5BLDers here. Swapping the entire UB and UL tredges in memo when there's an odd number of corners avoids OP and midge parity algs. This seems like a no brainer. Is there any reason not to do it?


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## Mike Hughey (Feb 3, 2018)

newtonbase said:


> A question for the 5BLDers here. Swapping the entire UB and UL tredges in memo when there's an odd number of corners avoids OP and midge parity algs. This seems like a no brainer. Is there any reason not to do it?


Um, because I'm braindead and never thought of doing it? How embarrassing. I need to try that.


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## mark49152 (Feb 3, 2018)

newtonbase said:


> A question for the 5BLDers here. Swapping the entire UB and UL tredges in memo when there's an odd number of corners avoids OP and midge parity algs. This seems like a no brainer. Is there any reason not to do it?


Only that it's a little more complicated and the thinking time during memo can outweigh the execution savings. It's only the midge parity and associated wing swap you avoid. You still have to do the final OP corner, and wing parity is independent.

I'm trying to switch to this at the moment, starting with 3BLD. I'm practising tracing only, until that's within 1 second of what it was before.


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## newtonbase (Feb 3, 2018)

mark49152 said:


> Only that it's a little more complicated and the thinking time during memo can outweigh the execution savings. It's only the midge parity and associated wing swap you avoid. You still have to do the final OP corner, and wing parity is independent.
> 
> I'm trying to switch to this at the moment, starting with 3BLD. I'm practising tracing only, until that's within 1 second of what it was before.


I do it already for 3BLD so it should be pretty automatic. I'll give it a try


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## newtonbase (Feb 3, 2018)

My phone's predictive keyboard isn't working properly on this site. It's fine everywhere else. Anyone else having this issue? I'm sure this happened once before. The thread for reporting such things is closed and we have a couple of super moderators here hence the post. @mark49152 @Mike Hughey
eg The quicq brbro fox jumps ovov the lazy dog.


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## mark49152 (Feb 3, 2018)

newtonbase said:


> I do it already for 3BLD so it should be pretty automatic. I'll give it a try


Are you doing it for 4BLD? 



newtonbase said:


> My phone's predictive keyboard isn't working properly on this site. It's fine everywhere else. Anyone else having this issue? I'm sure this happened once before. The thread for reporting such things is closed and we have a couple of super moderators here hence the post. @mark49152 @Mike Hughey
> eg The quicq brbro fox jumps ovov the lazy dog.


What phone model? Mine has similar problems but I hadn't noticed that it's specific to this site.


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## newtonbase (Feb 3, 2018)

mark49152 said:


> Are you doing it for 4BLD?



No. I was keeping it as simple as possible until i got a success but I'll switch now. 



mark49152 said:


> What phone model? Mine has similar problems but I hadn't noticed that it's specific to this site.


I have a Wileyfox Swift 2 Plus using the SwiftKey keyboard..


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## JanW (Feb 3, 2018)

Crazy session today. First this happened:

avg of 5: 15.54

15.28 (PLL Skip), 14.81 (PLL Skip), (18.09) , (13.67) (PLL Skip), 16.53

The chance of getting at least three PLL skips in an Ao5 is roughly 1/38000!! This Ao5 improved my PB about .9 seconds and I thought it would hold for quite a while. It didn't. Later in same session I got a 15.42 Ao5 without any skips!  By the end of the session I had broken all my PB averages Ao5-Ao100.

New PBs (old in parenthesis):
Ao5: 15.42 (16.40)
Ao12: 16.84 (16.93)
Ao50: 18.06 (18.57)
Ao100: 18.38 (18.92)

And here's my favorite cross from this session: 

F' U' B2 F2 R2 D' U2 B2 D' F2 U' L2 R D F' L D2 U2 F2 D2 B'

x2 // inspection
F M' x y' M2 // cross


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## newtonbase (Feb 3, 2018)

Got my new MBLD cubes. I ordered the right ones this time.


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## muchacho (Feb 3, 2018)

OH PB single again, now 16.903 (from 16.944), first block was not that great (there was an easy 7 moves block) but then all went good.



Spoiler



10701 03-feb-2018 16:09:03 00:16.903 L2 U' R2 F2 D' L2 U B2 L2 D U F' R B2 U R2 D2 B2 F2 R2 F'
y'
Uw' U2 Lw U Lw' U M U M' Lw' U' Lw' z2
U L2 U2 Lw' U' Lw L U' L'
U' F R U R' U' F'
M U' M' U2 M U M U' M2 U
38 STM
2.25 TPS


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## mitja (Feb 3, 2018)

newtonbase said:


> My phone's predictive keyboard isn't working properly on this site. It's fine everywhere else. Anyone else having this issue? I'm sure this happened once before. The thread for reporting such things is closed and we have a couple of super moderators here hence the post. @mark49152 @Mike Hughey
> eg The quicq brbro fox jumps ovov the lazy dog.


I didn't notice that, but what I see is a search problem. For a month it reports unauthorized access, so it is definitely something wrong on this site, at least different then before.


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## mark49152 (Feb 3, 2018)

newtonbase said:


> Got my new MBLD cubes. I ordered the right ones this time.
> View attachment 8866


What are those?


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## newtonbase (Feb 3, 2018)

mark49152 said:


> What are those?


Yuxin Little Magic in black. They are cheap and fast. The stickers are rubbish but that just makes the grip better when they get ragged.


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## mark49152 (Feb 3, 2018)

newtonbase said:


> Yuxin Little Magic in black. They are cheap and fast. The stickers are rubbish but that just makes the grip better when they get ragged.


Bear in mind they are pretty strict about stickers at comps these days. I'm still on Thunderclaps. They feel a bit old school but I don't want to replace 30 of them.


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## One Wheel (Feb 3, 2018)

See if I can jinx myself so I don't get any more PBs for a while: My previous best 7x7 solve was 6:53.67. That's not the scramble. I got 7:43.16 with that one.


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## newtonbase (Feb 3, 2018)

mark49152 said:


> Bear in mind they are pretty strict about stickers at comps these days. I'm still on Thunderclaps. They feel a bit old school but I don't want to replace 30 of them.


They are a bit rough but they are intact and i will have plenty of spares once i get magnets in them.
Stick with the Thunderclaps until they slow you down. I have a couple of unused spares you can have if 30 isn't enough!


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## mark49152 (Feb 3, 2018)

newtonbase said:


> Stick with the Thunderclaps until they slow you down. I have a couple of unused spares you can have if 30 isn't enough!


Sure I'll take them next time I see you! Can never have too many MBLD cubes . I don't find them slow. My execution is about 50 for MBLD compared to about 30-35 for 3BLD on a Valk. I could probably turn a bit faster but really it's my memo slowing me down in MBLD.


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## Selkie (Feb 4, 2018)

Well I have to tip my hat to the regular BLDers here. Whilst I have long known it is a discipline I am not most proficient at I have been doing my best to confront my nemesis in the last week and am happy to share my progress.

I was really pleased with early progress on corners only. I believe I have about an 90% success rate on corners only. I am content with my ability to break into new cycles and deal with corner twists and am reasonably confident with 6-10 or so targets using OP.

Two days ago I switched to edges and whilst I have tried to give M2 the best of chances, my lack of real familiarisation with the lettering scheme and frustration has lead me to revert to OP edges.

I have done a lot of sighted solves and drilled my setup/alg/setdown routines but to date have just a single instance of an edges only success.

Trying to be as self critical as possible, my failures are as a result of:-

Confidence - Repeatedly re-tracking from the beginning
Lettering Scheme - Getting closer but still making mistakes
Letter pairs - Whilst so many pairs are OK to create on the fly, there are as many that leave me thinking
Missing Cycles - It takes so long to work out the missing edge cycles and which pieces have been shot to and which have not
Bad Memory - Or rather bad memory tehniques
As for letter pairs, I have been working hard on a pair list. This exercise has been really enjoyable as my wife and I have been doing this together. It is awesome to have something about cubing that she can take an active and helpful role in. We are up to N* and constantly reviewing the previous selections to ensure as little confusion and similarity with other pairs as possible.

I still feel a success is far away but am motivated to crack it. I have so much admiration for those who have progressed so far in the blind disciplines and humbled by the over 40's achievements.

BLD does help with other solving. Had a PB 11.91 3x3 ao5, 41.12 4x4 PB single and a 1:47.57 5x5 ao5 on Saturday. Strange that these pale in to insignificance with BLD concentration.


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## h2f (Feb 4, 2018)

I have a new Valk Power M for 2 weeks and I've decided to make a huge timed solves with it. Im almost done 1000 solves and I rolled my times to ao5 14.42, ao12 14.67 and ao100 15.86. There was a time when I thought I've never gonna be sub20. Now there's sub15 on the horizon. 

Yesterday I've published a movie how I fixed Yuxin 10x10. After Chris comment I've made English subs. I would be grateful if you take a look on it.


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## openseas (Feb 4, 2018)

newtonbase said:


> I do it already for 3BLD so it should be pretty automatic. I'll give it a try



Not sure whether it is worth the effort. Not like 3BLD, you have to swap 4 pieces (including double) for wings + more complicated for 5BLD, if you use completely comp, slightly different matter, though.
But interesting idea, please let us know how it goes.

BTW, I had a 5 DNF day (2 from 5BLD, 3 from 3BLD), yike....
5 BLD DNF, the first attempt was due to the execution error for wings, 2nd, just gave up in the middle (brain dead).
3 BLD case, 1st one cycle off, 2nd one flip, 3rd, one twist. 

But, my son broke his pb, it's been a while, so all went good.


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## Ander (Feb 4, 2018)

I know it's nothing special, but I just wanted to say that I finally managed to finish the cube in under 60 seconds, which was the goal I set for myself when I started cubing just before Christmas. My average is still at 1'15" or so, but after some solves close to 60" I finally got a lucky break and managed a 59".

Now that I am content after reaching my goal I can finally concentrate on Fridrich's method (the above was with LBL).

Happy cubing!


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## Selkie (Feb 4, 2018)

Success!!

Wow what progress today. Everything just seems to be clicking into place and I decided to have two complete attempts. First one out by 2 flipped edges at BL and FD. Second full attempt was a success.

Edges were:
a *W*al*L* with *KH*aleesi sat on it eating a bowl of *Q*uaker *O*ats
*EJ*s (a bar I used to go to) has reopened next to the *NI*le but there is a dead(*X*) *G*oat hanging outside.

Corners were audio and true to audio I cannot recall them now but I think I had I had "*NO*", "*V*o*H*", "*MU*(moo)" plus another pair

Untimed as I was watching rugby in the lounge but perhaps about 10 minutes with quite a few interuptions.

Straight on to the next one


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## mark49152 (Feb 4, 2018)

openseas said:


> Not sure whether it is worth the effort. Not like 3BLD, you have to swap 4 pieces (including double) for wings + more complicated for 5BLD,


5BLD is the main reason I'm learning it, because midge parity takes longer to solve with the need to swap wings as well. So more time saved. For 3 & 4BLD you need to be able to memo either way really without any cost in time, otherwise it's not worth it. It's actually much easier than I expected it to be.

The other thing to bear in mind is tricky cases on UB and UL. It can be useful to be able to memo either way if you spot solved or flipped edges in those positions.


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## pglewis (Feb 4, 2018)

Ander said:


> I know it's nothing special, but I just wanted to say that I finally managed to finish the cube in under 60 seconds [...]



It is very much something special! It was not all that long ago I was trying to break that barrier. It takes some dedication and work to get there and once you get that first one you know you can do it again. 



Selkie said:


> Success!!



Booyaaa!


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## newtonbase (Feb 4, 2018)

Well done on the sub 1 @Ander. It's a great milestone that i got to experience twice as the first time turned out to be a DNF.

Fantastic result @Selkie.

Regarding flipped midges on 5BLD . My flipping algs mess up centres. Do I need to shoot to both stickers?


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## mark49152 (Feb 4, 2018)

newtonbase said:


> Regarding flipped midges on 5BLD . My flipping algs mess up centres. Do I need to shoot to both stickers?


Some flipping algs are centre safe, some aren't. Try M' U M' U M' U2 M U M U M U2.

Congrats @Selkie on that success!


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## h2f (Feb 4, 2018)

openseas said:


> But, my son broke his pb, it's been a while, so all went good.



So, you are Jeff father? I didnt notice you mentioned it.


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## openseas (Feb 4, 2018)

h2f said:


> So, you are Jeff father? I didnt notice you mentioned it.



Haha, I don’t think I mentioned it. Could have claimed my self as Max’s father but Shawn is too well recognized


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## newtonbase (Feb 4, 2018)

mark49152 said:


> Some flipping algs are centre safe, some aren't. Try M' U M' U M' U2 M U M U M U2.


I've seen that before but have always used M' U' M' U' M' U' M' U2 M' U' M' U' M' U' M'
Thanks


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## mark49152 (Feb 4, 2018)

newtonbase said:


> I've seen that before but have always used M' U' M' U' M' U' M' U2 M' U' M' U' M' U' M'
> Thanks


Yeah that's the one I prefer for 3BLD (with U not U') because M' is faster for me. On 5x5 I do slices as 3Rw' 2Rw etc. so no reason to prefer M'. But I don't think that alg is centre safe anyway.


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## SpartanSailor (Feb 4, 2018)

I got 2 of 5 success on my 3BLD practice this afternoon. I think I make errors in execution. Sometimes I am going in automatic for set-up and return... but sometimes forget an L2 or an M2 on my edges (using OP). For corners, I make silly execution errors with the swapping alg. 

But I’m getting more comfortable... still a LOT of practice to do.


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## h2f (Feb 5, 2018)

openseas said:


> Haha, I don’t think I mentioned it. Could have claimed my self as Max’s father but Shawn is too will recognized



Awsome!


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## JohnnyReggae (Feb 5, 2018)

Received my stickerless WuJi 7x7 this morning. Out of the box it's terrible  Tight and locky and not at all easy to turn. Loosened the tensions a little, but had to tighten them again a bit to avoid an explosion.

I'll need to spend some time on it to get it going. It does need some lube as it feels very sandy and not that smooth. Other than trying to get it setup I want to magnetise it. I recently magnetised my Aufo GT and TBH it's not much better with the magnets. I think I need stronger magnets than what I used in the Aufo for the WuJi.


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## mitja (Feb 5, 2018)

@Selkie 
I know the feeling, it feels better then when you first solve the cube. Congrats


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## mitja (Feb 5, 2018)

JohnnyReggae said:


> Received my stickerless WuJi 7x7 this morning. Out of the box it's terrible  Tight and locky and not at all easy to turn. Loosened the tensions a little, but had to tighten them again a bit to avoid an explosion.
> 
> I'll need to spend some time on it to get it going. It does need some lube as it feels very sandy and not that smooth. Other than trying to get it setup I want to magnetise it. I recently magnetised my Aufo GT and TBH it's not much better with the magnets. I think I need stronger magnets than what I used in the Aufo for the WuJi.


Let me know what you plan, I also want to do it. I had quite good 6x6 success, but I think qiji big cubes are not that good as their 4x4. My plan is CB G6, So I can compare it with qiji, but next 7x7.
Which are the magnets you will use?


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## Selkie (Feb 5, 2018)

I filmed my attempts for the weekly competition but no success but I was eager to get my first filmed success so did a couple more solves and in the end got this on film:-

1. 9:46.02 F2 D' B2 R2 U2 F2 R2 D B2 D' U' L' F U2 B U' L' F' D' F2 U2 






Sub UK hard cut but my aim is to get sub 5 minutes for High Wycombe Open in April to have a couple of official attempts.


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## SpartanSailor (Feb 5, 2018)

Selkie said:


> I filmed my attempts for the weekly competition but no success but I was eager to get my first filmed success so did a couple more solves and in the end got this on film:-
> 
> 1. 9:46.02 F2 D' B2 R2 U2 F2 R2 D B2 D' U' L' F U2 B U' L' F' D' F2 U2
> 
> ...


Well done! I notice that you did Corners First... is this how you typically do it? I get my corner memo first, then do edges in execution first. If there is an odd number of targets, I deal with that prior to commencing my corner memo. I've thought to do corners first, but wonder if the "fix" for odd targets is results in the same outcome. Again, nicely done. 

I'm not sure what the hard-cuts are in the UK, but here in the States along the EAST coast there are few comps (currently, at least) that do 3BLD and I've seen the hard-cut from 6 min to 10 min. Our US NATIONALS qualifying time is 4 minutes for 3BLD. I am in the 9ish minute range... Sometimes a little faster, and other times a little slower--my issues come when I'm returning my set-up moves. I sometimes do them the wrong way and the cube is no longer aligned for the rest of the solve... results in a very unimpressive attempt of a cube that looks fully scrambled despite my 8 minutes of memo.


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## newtonbase (Feb 5, 2018)

Selkie said:


> I filmed my attempts for the weekly competition but no success but I was eager to get my first filmed success so did a couple more solves and in the end got this on film:-
> 
> 1. 9:46.02 F2 D' B2 R2 U2 F2 R2 D B2 D' U' L' F U2 B U' L' F' D' F2 U2
> 
> ...


Sub 10 is excellent and I'm sure you'll get sub 5 by April.

Did my first proper 5BLD attempt and very happy with the result. IncirInco pieces were 5 plus cross (recall and/or memo), 1 flipped midge (memo) 2 twisted corners (comm error). Wings and X cross all good. Took just over 40 mins being super careful so I'm good for the Manchester time limit.


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## Selkie (Feb 5, 2018)

@SpartanSailor - I memo edges first using images and then memo corners using audio. I then execute corners first from short term audio before moving on to edges. If both have odd number of targets then its parity after edges, if both even, no parity. One odd one even I sigh and look for my memo mistake 

I think it is usual in UK to have a total of 10 minutes or 3 attempts whichever comes first so if I can get down to below 5 minutes I should be able to squeeze in more than one DNF 

I have to say at this point in time I think audio memo is actually counterproductive to my level as I have to keep repeating the audio loop to myself given the amount of time it takes me to memo the corners but I wanted to give it a go given it will be beneficial later. I also get stuck trying to think of some short sounds for some pairs. I use "Sh" sound for X and "Ch" for Q but still need to differentiate between C and K. I feel an audio letter pair list on the horizon!

Talking of letter pair lists I have now completed the full images list but I am sure some will need changing. I wanted to do this as quickly as possible so I can start learning them as soon as possible. It is amazing what sticks as my UQ happens to be your dog headed slug @mark49152 , its the first thing that came to mind when I got it in memo. Though my IQ is a scientist with a head like in the Tefal adverts in the 80's I have used QI for monocle.

I used all of the very good letter pair resources kindly offered here last week but I also found this quite useful for some tricky ones .. https://www.acronymfinder.com/

Going to try and fit in 5 BLD solves a day through February and keeping a record of DNF proportion and overall times.

Looking forward to getting better at the lettering scheme and tracing and I am very eager to move on to M2 as soon as possible but overall happy with progress so far.

@newtonbase - That sounds awesome for your first 5 attempt, not much wrong with that mate.


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## pglewis (Feb 5, 2018)

newtonbase said:


> Well done on the sub 1 @Ander. It's a great milestone that i got to experience twice as the first time turned out to be a DNF.



Oh man, that's harsh 



SpartanSailor said:


> I've thought to do corners first, but wonder if the "fix" for odd targets is results in the same outcome.



I'm nearly 100% certain you need a different parity fix if you execute corners first (but I've always done edges first).


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## newtonbase (Feb 5, 2018)

Selkie said:


> I have to say at this point in time I think audio memo is actually counterproductive to my level as I have to keep repeating the audio loop to myself given the amount of time it takes me to memo the corners but I wanted to give it a go given it will be beneficial later. I also get stuck trying to think of some short sounds for some pairs. I use "Sh" sound for X and "Ch" for Q but still need to differentiate between C and K. I feel an audio letter pair list on the horizon!


I use Sh for X, Th for Q and Ch for C. Where H is the 2nd letter I'll usually use Ng. DeeDubb did a thread on audio pairs which really helped. https://www.speedsolving.com/forum/...ocus-on-phonetics-rather-than-spelling.51937/


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## SpartanSailor (Feb 5, 2018)

So letter pair stuff... I know you guys are talking about images for each letter pair. Having only 1 image per pair, makes a decent listing... (3BLD...can't imagine 4, 5 and other big blind). I haven't taken to the visual method, but should probably give it some attention. I just brute-force my way through all the letters and try to string some non-sense sentence together.


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## mark49152 (Feb 5, 2018)

Selkie said:


> It is amazing what sticks as my UQ happens to be your dog headed slug @mark49152 , its the first thing that came to mind when I got it in memo. Though my IQ is a scientist with a head like in the Tefal adverts in the 80's I have used QI for monocle.


Haha great, you are welcome . My IQ is the crazy guy out of Back to the Future. I also have EI = Einstein. For QI, I use quiet which is on my "bad, must change" list. Sometimes I visualise it as a zip on someone's mouth.


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## pglewis (Feb 5, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> So letter pair stuff... I know you guys are talking about images for each letter pair. Having only 1 image per pair, makes a decent listing... (3BLD...can't imagine 4, 5 and other big blind). I haven't taken to the visual method, but should probably give it some attention. I just brute-force my way through all the letters and try to string some non-sense sentence together.



I'm approaching memo and letter pair images primarily with mbld in mind: I'm mostly concerned about a system that can stick for me for multiple cubes. That approach will be slower for 3bld but it certainly won't be a bottleneck to reaching sub 5 so it's good enough for both 3bld and mbld for the short term. 

Images work fairly well for me but everyone is different. If I tell a story I tend to visualize that story somewhat and the visual memory for even a short, simple story encodes a surprising amount of information. The amount of information for a single 3x3 using an image per letter pair is surprisingly small. I mentioned "Albert Einstein on Roller Skates" as an example of "AE RS" before and you said you had difficulty visualizing, that it was just words. It might help to bring some action into the image to help really turn it into an image. How is Al doing on those skates? Maybe he's surprisingly good, landing triple axles. Or maybe he's struggling, legs akimbo, desperate not to fall. I'll often use tricks like this to link image to image so I can follow it like links in a chain and the main trick is usually remembering that first corner or edge image, if I have that first link I'm usually good. My image examples might not be good for you and some slightly different approach might be better suited, too. Note that some of Mark's memorable images don't even have a language connection to the letter pair but they work just as well once embedded. 

It is definitely a lot of images to collect and I'm playing that as a long-game.


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## newtonbase (Feb 5, 2018)

pglewis said:


> Images work fairly well for me but everyone is different. If I tell a story I tend to visualize that story somewhat and the visual memory for even a short, simple story encodes a surprising amount of information. The amount of information for a single 3x3 using an image per letter pair is surprisingly small. I mentioned "Albert Einstein on Roller Skates" as an example of "AE RS" before and you said you had difficulty visualizing, that it was just words. It might help to bring some action into the image to help really turn it into an image. How is Al doing on those skates? Maybe he's surprisingly good, landing triple axles. Or maybe he's struggling, legs akimbo, desperate not to fall. I'll often use tricks like this to link image to image so I can follow it like links in a chain and the main trick is usually remembering that first corner or edge image, if I have that first link I'm usually good. My image examples might not be good for you and some slightly different approach might be better suited, too. Note that some of Mark's memorable images don't even have a language connection to the letter pair but they work just as well once embedded.


I do this sort of thing too, especially on a weaker image. Focusing on a minor detail really helps it stick. I saw the technique suggested on a video. Ollie's maybe?


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## Mike Hughey (Feb 5, 2018)

pglewis said:


> Images work fairly well for me but everyone is different.


This is very true! Some people take very well to visualizing; others do not. It doesn't seem to matter much for success, though - you need to use what's best for you.

I find that I do much better when I can really see the visuals while memorizing. But sometimes when I'm trying to go too quick, I just get raw words, and when that happens, I'm much more likely to forget later on in recall.

But one thing that is very true is that visuals seem to take longer. It takes me precious seconds to really implant a visual image in my memory, and it seems like the fastest people just don't do that. Mark Boyanowski (world #3 in multiBLD with 40/42 in competition) told me that he felt like he was handicapped for BLD because he couldn't do mental images well at all, but then he talked a bit with Marcin Kowalczyk (world #1) and Marcin told him that he mostly doesn't even use images - he just does sentences that are basically just words. He said they were faster. And it seems like Mark has had a lot of luck with that. 

So, my point is, if you're the type who works better with sentences that are just words, rather than images, and it actually works for you, maybe that's to your advantage!

It certainly seems to me that to get the sub-20 3x3x3 BLD times that the fastest people get, there must be absolutely no imaging going on at all - just audio loop of the entire memorization and go. With just 7 seconds to memorize a cube, there really isn't time for more than that. It's just so hard to comprehend how they do that. When I switched from audio for corners (with images for edges) to audio for edges (with images for corners), I actually slowed down substantially, and I have yet to recover. I haven't had time to really drill it; I keep hoping that if I do, I'll eventually get faster and it will pay off. But it hasn't happened yet.



newtonbase said:


> I do this sort of thing too, especially on a weaker image. Focusing on a minor detail really helps it stick. I saw the technique suggested on a video. Ollie's maybe?


One other trick that can help is to make an image from one location in your route interact somehow with an image from a nearby location. I find that can really help, especially with some image that is otherwise not sticking very well.

An example of this from my most recent multi attempt: I had Johnny Depp using a guage to measure a cat's hiccups. My next location was of a quivering sail on a sailboat. I couldn't get it to stick, then I realized I could have Johnny Depp (as Captain Jack Sparrow) reaching over from the other location and messing with the sail, and then it stuck so well that I still remember it.


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## SpartanSailor (Feb 5, 2018)

I'm still in my infancy as a BLD solver... having only just started a few weeks ago, I am way too novice to speak with certainty about what "works" for me and what doesn't. Just for now, that is how my brain has begun processing things. I will probably spend some time working on images. I DO like the idea that images are connected to "pairs". I spend MOST of my time trying to determine if I've hit every target then trying to count how many targets there were... Just a string of words doesn't make it intuitive whether there are even or odd targets. I see the advantage that each image is an even number of targets. So.... if there's a left over target, then I add the parity alg before starting corners. More simple in my mind that way. 

Plus, I like the image of Albert Einstein doing a triple axle and trying not to fall on ice skates...  I have to work that in somehow!


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## CLL Smooth (Feb 5, 2018)

Blindfold still?!?! Sheesh, you guys kill me. Don’t you talk about anything else in here?
So I’m doing blindfold now and my brain actually hurts. Perhaps if I stopped smoking the reefer my short term memory would improve.


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## pglewis (Feb 5, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> I'm still in my infancy as a BLD solver... having only just started a few weeks ago, I am way too novice to speak with certainty about what "works" for me and what doesn't. Just for now, that is how my brain has begun processing things. I will probably spend some time working on images. I DO like the idea that images are connected to "pairs". I spend MOST of my time trying to determine if I've hit every target then trying to count how many targets there were... Just a string of words doesn't make it intuitive whether there are even or odd targets. I see the advantage that each image is an even number of targets. So.... if there's a left over target, then I add the parity alg before starting corners. More simple in my mind that way.
> 
> Plus, I like the image of Albert Einstein doing a triple axle and trying not to fall on ice skates...  I have to work that in somehow!



Experiment, use your creativity and see if you can find what works well for you. I'm working to get tracing more automatic so I can confidently get through a full 3bld trace reasonably smoothly without review. No use fighting both tracing and assigning images at the same time, if tracing is as quick as it should be then I won't even have to retain the memo very long for just 3bld, execution doesn't take long.


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## SpartanSailor (Feb 5, 2018)

The discussion DOES tend to center around various blind solving events (3BLD, bigger cubes, multi)...

But, since you asked.... I'm holding my nerves at bay. I have a comp this weekend in Pennsylvania. I'm competing in 2x2, 3x3, 4x4 and skewb. I haven't given the skewb any real attention lately, which is too bad. Sometimes, I'll have an amazing average and blow right by my official PB, but then my consistency is out the window... so that could go either way. Same for 2x2. 

I am hopeful that I can deliver with 3x3. I'm not the fastest, by any stretch, but I have made a relatively decent breakthrough somewhat recently. I had a comp last month and actually did pretty well, even with a +2 on my fastest I still got a PB single and PB Ao5. Since then, I have really seen a dramatic improvement. But, I get serious competition nerves and usually have 20s and 21s while I'm warming up or just messing around, then blow it with high 20s and sometimes 30s in comp. Sooooo.... I'll be thrilled if I can deliver on my 3x3 and just avoid embarrassment with 2x2 and skewb.


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## SpartanSailor (Feb 5, 2018)

pglewis said:


> Experiment, use your creativity and see if you can find what works well for you. I'm working to get tracing more automatic so I can confidently get through a full 3bld trace reasonably smoothly without review. No use fighting both tracing and assigning images at the same time, if tracing is as quick as it should be then I won't even have to retain the memo very long for just 3bld, execution doesn't take long.


Exactly. If I was confident I had every target, I wouldn't need much to remember my memo... I spend so much time trying to trace that I end up having to recreate my memo a couple times.


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## newtonbase (Feb 5, 2018)

Mike Hughey said:


> This is very true! Some people take very well to visualizing; others do not. It doesn't seem to matter much for success, though - you need to use what's best for you.
> 
> I find that I do much better when I can really see the visuals while memorizing. But sometimes when I'm trying to go too quick, I just get raw words, and when that happens, I'm much more likely to forget later on in recall.
> 
> ...


I like to play around with them too. I don't have fixed numbers of pairs in one image. Today I had Mo puts a QuiFf in a shed (XD). The next 2 were TR AW, usually Tear Amy Winehouse which didn't work so I put TyRes in the shed and started again with Amy (and her He-Pig).


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## Jason Green (Feb 5, 2018)

Mike Hughey said:


> This is very true! Some people take very well to visualizing; others do not. It doesn't seem to matter much for success, though - you need to use what's best for you.
> 
> I find that I do much better when I can really see the visuals while memorizing. But sometimes when I'm trying to go too quick, I just get raw words, and when that happens, I'm much more likely to forget later on in recall.
> 
> ...


That's good to hear because I have a hard time doing images as compared to sentences. If I can have a decent sentence I can visualize the whole thing sometimes, but it's more the story of what's going on than an image.


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## pglewis (Feb 5, 2018)

CLL Smooth said:


> Blindfold still?!?! Sheesh, you guys kill me. Don’t you talk about anything else in here?



It's the one place we can still stay ahead of most of the youngsters. For now. They're quickly discovering it though, those days are numbered


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## pglewis (Feb 5, 2018)

One other thing, if it's just 3bld then I don't really have to stick an image to everything. I just got an untimed success where I didn't even bother coming up with images for the last few pairs. Corner memo has to stick longer, I just had 5 images. I had 4 images for edges and just remembered "BT CW S(parity)" for the end, trusted my trace and did edges before I could forget. It's not unusual for me to remember some portions of my trace just spatially... if I could do that 100%, who even needs Speffz, let alone images?!


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## Mike Hughey (Feb 5, 2018)

pglewis said:


> It's not unusual for me to remember some portions of my trace just spatially... if I could do that 100%, who even needs Speffz, let alone images?!


There was a time when that was the "in thing" - that's what was meant by "visual memory". People described it as remembering an arrowed path that runs from piece to piece, as if it's a 3d map that you're remembering for the memo. But since then it seems like the people who just glom a bunch of letters together in some pronounceable way for an audio loop
have become the fastest ones.



pglewis said:


> It's the one place we can still stay ahead of most of the youngsters. For now. They're quickly discovering it though, those days are numbered


Tell me about it. There was a time not very long ago when 12/12 multi would have easily been US national champion material. This year it was barely enough for 7th place.


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## newtonbase (Feb 5, 2018)

Mike Hughey said:


> There was a time when that was the "in thing" - that's what was meant by "visual memory". People described it as remembering an arrowed path that runs from piece to piece, as if it's a 3d map that you're remembering for the memo. But since then it seems like the people who just glom a bunch of letters together in some pronounceable way for an audio loop
> have become the fastest ones.
> 
> 
> Tell me about it. There was a time not very long ago when 12/12 multi would have easily been US national champion material. This year it was barely enough for 7th place.


The MBLD bronze medallist in the 2015 UK Championships didn't even qualify for 2017. That result would have placed him last among the Brits who didn't DNF.


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## phreaker (Feb 5, 2018)

Working on BLD again... I'm working on getting corners only and edges only successes.

Soon... Corners + edges... but I want to be more consistent.


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## mark49152 (Feb 6, 2018)

Mike Hughey said:


> I find that I do much better when I can really see the visuals while memorizing. But sometimes when I'm trying to go too quick, I just get raw words, and when that happens, I'm much more likely to forget later on in recall.
> 
> But one thing that is very true is that visuals seem to take longer. It takes me precious seconds to really implant a visual image in my memory, and it seems like the fastest people just don't do that.


This is me. When I fail memo, it is usually for this exact reason, that I did not adequately visualise my images; and when I am slow it is often because I struggled for some reason to really visualise the memo well.


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## JohnnyReggae (Feb 6, 2018)

mitja said:


> Let me know what you plan, I also want to do it. I had quite good 6x6 success, but I think qiji big cubes are not that good as their 4x4. My plan is CB G6, So I can compare it with qiji, but next 7x7.
> Which are the magnets you will use?


Not sure at the moment what magnets to use. I have 4x2N35, 3x2N38, and 5x1.5N38 ... I have a few 4x1.5N35's but not enough to do the whole cube.

The Aofu that I did I used 3x2N38's in the edges and 3x1N38's in the corners. They are too weak for my personal preference which leans towards stronger magnets.


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## mitja (Feb 6, 2018)

JohnnyReggae said:


> Not sure at the moment what magnets to use. I have 4x2N35, 3x2N38, and 5x1.5N38 ... I have a few 4x1.5N35's but not enough to do the whole cube.
> 
> The Aofu that I did I used 3x2N38's in the edges and 3x1N38's in the corners. They are too weak for my personal preference which leans towards stronger magnets.


I think it is up to the design of the cube. Biggest benefit from strong magnets is possibility to loosen the cube more, but only if it doesn't start to pop and lock. In that case, I try to make springs weaker. The combination of all this, makes the cube great. It is easy to experiment with 3x3's, because of little work, but to experiment with 6x6 or 7x7 takes time and money. I know the perfect combination for 4x4, and good for 5x5, but i only made one 6x6 with the magnets that where lying around. I hope you find a good combination.
How is Captown these days? I have been there twice last year, but I won't have a chance this year. I shure will miss it.


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## mark49152 (Feb 6, 2018)

@Selkie: Was looking at my 3BLD timer history today and I didn't realise it went back so far. I still have every timed solve since I started in August 2015. Bear in mind that I did a lot of other practice like other BLD events, tracing, corners/edges only, untimed solves, etc., but the below is how many timed full 3BLD attempts I'd done by the time I reached each milestone:-

60 sub-5 (so you should be fine for HW )
200 sub-4
450 sub-3
900 sub-2
1850 sub-1:30
4450 sub-1


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## SpartanSailor (Feb 7, 2018)

mark49152 said:


> @Selkie: Was looking at my 3BLD timer history today and I didn't realise it went back so far. I still have every timed solve since I started in August 2015. Bear in mind that I did a lot of other practice like other BLD events, tracing, corners/edges only, untimed solves, etc., but the below is how many timed full 3BLD attempts I'd done by the time I reached each milestone:-
> 
> 60 sub-5 (so you should be fine for HW )
> 200 sub-4
> ...


Wow!


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## JohnnyReggae (Feb 7, 2018)

mitja said:


> I think it is up to the design of the cube. Biggest benefit from strong magnets is possibility to loosen the cube more, but only if it doesn't start to pop and lock. In that case, I try to make springs weaker. The combination of all this, makes the cube great. It is easy to experiment with 3x3's, because of little work, but to experiment with 6x6 or 7x7 takes time and money. I know the perfect combination for 4x4, and good for 5x5, but i only made one 6x6 with the magnets that where lying around. I hope you find a good combination.
> How is Captown these days? I have been there twice last year, but I won't have a chance this year. I shure will miss it.


I've only done 1 6x6 and 1 7x7 in the big cube range so far. I'm keen to get the right magnets for the WuJi mostly because it's not cheap, but then again it's cheaper than a GAN Air SM 

Cape Town is good as always, despite suffering a sever drought. We're now only allowed to use 50L of water per person per day for everything from showering to drinking to washing dishes etc...  We hope it rains soon ...


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## mitja (Feb 7, 2018)

JohnnyReggae said:


> I've only done 1 6x6 and 1 7x7 in the big cube range so far. I'm keen to get the right magnets for the WuJi mostly because it's not cheap, but then again it's cheaper than a GAN Air SM
> 
> Cape Town is good as always, despite suffering a sever drought. We're now only allowed to use 50L of water per person per day for everything from showering to drinking to washing dishes etc...  We hope it rains soon ...


Yes I am hearing a lot about water problems, I wish you well. About magnets: I also have the problem ordering them and not paying too much for postage. Applying them is fun and enjoyable, but getting them on time and the correct ones is a pain.


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## newtonbase (Feb 7, 2018)

Do close. Memo was a disaster as i made an error on the first word for wings and took ages to work it out and redo it. Not sure what caused the error.


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## openseas (Feb 7, 2018)

newtonbase said:


> Do close. Memo was a disaster as i made an error on the first word for wings and took ages to work it out and redo it. Not sure what caused the error.
> View attachment 8870



Getting really close! Keep it up!


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## newtonbase (Feb 7, 2018)

openseas said:


> Getting really close! Keep it up!


Not sure if I'll get a chance for another solve before Manchester unfortunately. My first success may be official!


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## pglewis (Feb 8, 2018)

First timed 3bld attempt in a long time: egregious failure, 5:00.11. Trace and memo felt good, I think an M2 setup/restore went afoul. That pace felt reasonably comfortable and it should just get better from here in theory. Time to start trying 2 again soon.


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## muchacho (Feb 8, 2018)

3x3 PB single: 10.121 (was 11.289 since July). Sad for not being sub-10, but more than 1 second faster than previous, so not too sad 



Spoiler: Scrambe/Reconstruction



61697 08-feb-2018 12:00:56 00:10.121 U' B2 L2 U R2 B2 L2 B2 D' L2 U2 R' U L' D L2 D' B' L' D R2
x y2
M Uw F' U L U' L'
M' U R2 M U M2 R' U R R U' R'
U2 R U2 R' U' R U' R'
U M' U M' U M' U2 M U M2 U' M U2 M'

41 STM
4.05 TPS





Spoiler: All my 3x3 PB singles



61697 08-feb-2018 12:00:56 00:*10.121* U' B2 L2 U R2 B2 L2 B2 D' L2 U2 R' U L' D L2 D' B' L' D R2
47503 05-jul-2017 20:07:17 00:*11.289* D R2 D2 R2 B2 L2 U' L2 B2 F2 D B' D' F' R U R B2 R U2 R2 F2
32160 15-nov-2016 9:52:07 00:*11.801* D B2 L2 U2 L2 D' L2 B2 D' F2 R2 F L' D' F U' B2 L B2 U2 L
25560 16-ago-2016 10:50:07 00:*12.166* B2 F2 D2 R2 U' B2 R2 L2 U F2 D L' D U' F' D R' U2 R F2 L D'
17862 20-may-2016 19:56:26 00:*13.831* F2 D L2 U2 F2 R2 D L2 B2 R2 F' R' U2 R' F U' B' R2 F2 L'
14508 21-abr-2016 16:16:36 00:*14.352* F2 U' B2 R2 D' L2 F2 D B2 U2 B2 R' B' L2 D2 R B U L U L U'
13595 14-abr-2016 8:54:45 00:*15.271* U' L2 U2 F2 R2 F2 D' F2 U' R2 U2 R' B U' F R' B' F2 U2 R2 L2
10841 09-mar-2016 14:37:32 00:*15.455* L2 D U2 R2 U2 L2 B2 R2 D L2 D2 B' U' R2 B' R U B2 U2 L' U'
10634 06-mar-2016 9:52:32 00:*16.216* B2 D2 F2 R2 B2 U' L2 D R2 F' U F R' L2 U B' D R' L2 D2
4788 04-dic-2015 15:49:07 00:*16.328* D' B2 F2 D' L2 B2 D U R2 L2 F' R' U' B' R' B2 F' D2 U L U'
4558 22-nov-2015 11:56:41 00:*19.088* U' R2 B2 D B2 D2 R2 B2 D F2 U B' R' L B' U2 F D F' L2 D2
4440 20-nov-2015 9:19:05 00:*19.511* R2 B2 D' F2 D' L2 D2 L2 U2 F2 D2 B U2 B D' R U2 F' R D' R2
3700 10-nov-2015 17:32:21 00:*21.534* U L2 D2 U' F' R2 B F' U L2 B U' L2 U2 B2 L2 D B2
3493 04-nov-2015 14:10:39 00:*22.295* U R2 U F2 L2 U' R2 U' B2 F2 L2 F' L' B2 R U L' F' U' L2 D
3343 31-oct-2015 9:36:24 00:*22.621* D R2 D2 L2 D' B2 U2 B2 U R2 U' L' F L2 U2 F D' B2 R' B2 F2
1686 14-sep-2015 11:07:13 00:*23.063* R2 D2 L2 U' F2 D' F2 R2 U B2 U2 R U' B D F D' R2 U L U'
1623 13-sep-2015 10:08:45 00:*24.278* D' B2 R2 D' L2 U F2 U2 R2 U B2 L' B L D R' B' R D' R' F2
1401 02-sep-2015 10:12:57 00:*27.934* D' F D' L2 F' D' R F R2 D' R B2 F' U2 B D' B' D
1286 28-ago-2015 12:15:58 00:*32.141* R2 U R2 D2 L2 F2 L2 U' L2 F2 D2 R F' D' B2 U B2 L' B' R' F D'
1275 28-ago-2015 12:02:04 00:*32.422* F2 U' R2 D L2 U' B2 U F2 R2 D R D L2 B' U' R F D' U' R D2
1231 27-ago-2015 9:09:09 00:*32.535* F2 D2 R2 F2 D2 L2 U2 L2 U2 B2 U2 R' U2 L2 B' L B2 F' R' F' D2 U'
1072 23-ago-2015 11:24:47 00:*32.878* U2 R2 L2 F2 U R2 L2 F2 U' L2 U2 B' L2 F L D2 L D B2 U2 L'
749 11-ago-2015 10:45:51 00:*32.983* D R2 F2 L2 U' L2 D2 R2 D' R2 U2 B F' R' B U' F L' U' F2 D' U2
483 31-jul-2015 9:30:39 00:*35.126* B2 R2 D' F2 U' B2 U2 B2 L2 F2 L2 B D2 R' B D' R2 F' U2 B2 L' D'
467 30-jul-2015 16:58:54 00:*41.093* U2 R2 U' F2 R2 D L2 B2 L2 D' B' F U' R F' L' F' U B' U'
396 27-jul-2015 19:13:06 00:*42.987* U' F2 L2 F2 D U2 F2 U' B2 L2 U2 L F2 U' B U2 R B2 D B' D U'
391 27-jul-2015 18:24:48 00:*48.973* D2 L2 D' R2 F2 D L2 D2 B2 R2 F B2 D2 R' U' F R2 L' B R'
369 26-jul-2015 12:06:39 00:*49.893* B2 R2 L2 F2 D L2 D' L2 B2 F2 U2 F' D' L2 B' L U' B2 U R B2
364 26-jul-2015 11:56:35 00:*51.189* R2 L2 U' L2 U' B2 F2 U2 B2 D R2 B D' F2 U2 R B D2 B' F'
304 23-jul-2015 10:04:50 00:*52.069* F2 L2 F2 D L2 D2 U B2 L2 D2 R L' U' F' U2 R2 B L' U' R' B
257 19-jul-2015 9:52:50 00:*54.477* D2 R2 L2 U' B2 L2 D2 B2 U R2 U B L B2 D' U' R F2 R2 U2 F' D2
232 18-jul-2015 9:15:58 0*1:05.572* R2 L2 B2 L2 D R2 D2 L2 F2 L2 U R' U2 L F' U' B2 R2 B2 R F2
157 15-jul-2015 11:31:03 0*1:07.317* L2 U2 B2 D' B2 R2 L2 F2 L2 D2 L' U' B' L2 F2 L D2 R' U' B
142 14-jul-2015 8:32:23 0*1:09.732* U B2 R2 B2 U F2 D' U2 F2 D2 F2 R' L2 D B' U2 R L' U F' L2 U'
138 14-jul-2015 8:21:34 0*1:17.148* U L2 B2 U2 B2 U L2 B2 U' F2 D' R' U B F' D' B' F L D F
115 11-jul-2015 12:45:47 0*1:26.170* F2 D' B2 U' L2 F2 R2 U R2 F2 R' F2 L' B D L F U2 F2 U2
91 10-jul-2015 11:14:52 0*1:33.802* L2 U2 B2 D' B2 R2 B2 D' L2 U' R2 B' R' U' B U' L2 F' D' B' R2 D
85 10-jul-2015 10:35:04 0*1:42.739* R2 U' B2 U B2 U F2 D L2 B2 U' L' D2 B U2 L D B' R U' R' U2
43 08-jul-2015 13:06:39 0*1:53.281* D' L2 B2 R2 U' B2 D' B2 D2 B2 U' L U' F2 U' L F L' F2 L2 D'
42 08-jul-2015 13:03:17 0*2:18.199* F2 U F2 D R2 D' L2 U F2 R2 D' R' F2 R' F L D U' B' R2
41 08-jul-2015 12:59:53 0*2:23.520* R2 D2 F2 U2 B2 R2 D B2 R2 U L2 F D' R D2 U' B' F U L' B D
19 07-jul-2015 19:48:00 0*2:36.837* D' F2 U2 L2 F2 D L2 B2 D' F2 D F' D2 R' B' F L2 U' F' L D' U
18 07-jul-2015 18:41:38 0*3:10.723* U2 R2 L2 F2 R2 U F2 U F2 L2 U L' U2 L B' D R2 B U' F2 D
8 07-jul-2015 12:04:41 0*3:15.764* D F2 D' F2 U2 F2 R2 F2 U2 F2 D2 F' D2 F R' B D F2 D' B D'
5 07-jul-2015 11:43:33 0*4:31.351* L2 F2 U' L2 D2 F2 U' F2 D F2 U' L' B2 U' F' R2 L U' F' R' D' U2
4 07-jul-2015 11:25:11 0*5:13.100* F2 L2 D U L2 U R2 F2 L2 U L' F' U' B' R L' D B' R U' L
2 07-jul-2015 9:32:23 0*6:06.769* B2 R2 L2 U2 R2 L2 B2 D F2 D F2 R' U' B2 R L2 B D B F D2
1 07-jul-2015 8:40:00 0*7:15.045* D2 R2 U F2 U B2 D' R2 D' L2 D2 L R2 U' B' F L2 U R' D B2 U


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## Selkie (Feb 8, 2018)

I am finding the whole memory side very interesting indeed and really enjoying hearing the methods and tips from the dialogue here.

With my image letter pair complete I am trying to add a letter set a day to flashcards and during this process I am reviewing and changing some images. For some pairs I have both a person and object or modifier. By modifier I mean, for instance, that for AF I have Andrew Flanagan and Afro. If it is the first pair in an image I may use the person but if I have just had a person I might give them an afro. In cases where I have given a person a visual modifier, I will usually have four pairs in an image.

I also find I fit more pairs in a location if they just flow nicely so if I were to get, say, *FI*fa takes a *B*ack *H*ander (bribe), it is so relevant in long term memory that more pairs will probably fit in that image.

Whilst I am very early in the journey, I am really looking forward to seeing how my memorisation develops as my BLD does. How ironic that my wife says I have become very forgetful as I have got older 

I do feel that the audio for corners just is not working for me right now. It seems I am taking almost as long for corners as edges and perhaps I should use images for all until I have had more practice. Audio seems to benefit from fast tracing due to its short term.

Thanks for the statistics @mark49152 which are very interesting and encouraging. I guess I just need to keep up with practice and work on the letter pairs at this stage.


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## mark49152 (Feb 8, 2018)

@Selkie: Nice to hear you're enjoying the BLD. I expect you'll progress faster than I did given that you're a more experienced and faster cuber than I was when I started. General ability and speed definitely helps with BLD.

I agree with your comments on audio. It's not going to work well or be worth it at this point. You need to be able to trace and execute fairly fast otherwise you'll lose the memo unless you do so much reviewing that you're defeating the purpose. IMHO, 2-3 minutes is about the right time to switch to audio. Plus your image memo will get more practice and develop faster if you're using it for twice as much .


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## pglewis (Feb 8, 2018)

Selkie said:


> For some pairs I have both a person and object or modifier. By modifier I mean, for instance, that for AF I have Andrew Flanagan and Afro. If it is the first pair in an image I may use the person but if I have just had a person I might give them an afro.



Some people use "PAO" (person, action, object). A strict PAO list would have a person, action, and an object for every letter pair and you'd select images so that the flow is "someone does something to something". 

I decided strict PAO is probably overkill for blindsolving but I still attempt to collect as many variations for a letter pair as I can come up with: famous people, fictional characters, objects, actions, and places. Searching various sources for "good" images is the most time consuming part for me so my attitude is I might as well put down as many good ones as I find while I'm doing that digging. I basically use it the same way as you, famous people are often the easiest to find and fill-in but remembering a stream of "person, person, person" in order doesn't leverage how my memory works best, much better to have alternates.


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## pglewis (Feb 8, 2018)

muchacho said:


> 3x3 PB single: 10.121 (was 11.289 since July). Sad for not being sub-10, but more than 1 second faster than previous, so not too sad



Nice jump! Suddenly several people knocking on the door of a sub 10 single here.


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## moralsh (Feb 9, 2018)

@newtonbase, you almost got it, I remember a couple of years ago I was at that stage you are now. I got my first success at home around this time of the year, then on the first comp I tried I got a DNF just for not executing midges (I put the blindfold back again and finished it ok, but it was already a DNF, that was Feb, 16) and 2 weeks later I got a couple of centers wrong . Got three successes that same year and none last one .

This year I'm really focusing on blind, I hope I start getting some decent times.

@mark49152 wow, that's quite a lot of practice, I don't think I have even 1000 timed 3BLD solves, 4450 sub 1? Go get that sub 1 official, man, or I'll get really angry!

@Selkie, welcome to the club, once you start getting around 2 it's more fun to practice.

@muchacho, your sub 10 is also overdue, you just need to get really lucky, mine is one year old, and I think I only managed a couple of 10.xx since. My average is still in the low 18s and It'll probably stay around that for quite some time

everybody else, hello, sorry for being away that long

Edit: I found my first success, February 4, 2016 (https://www.speedsolving.com/forum/threads/older-cubers-discussions.37405/page-362#post-1150072 )


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## newtonbase (Feb 9, 2018)

moralsh said:


> Edit: I found my first success, February 4, 2016 (https://www.speedsolving.com/forum/threads/older-cubers-discussions.37405/page-362#post-1150072 )


I've just had a read of that and of a few of the preceding pages. @mark49152 got his first 5BLD also and you were both around 40 mins which is where I am. 
Some nice discussion of Mark's MBLD at Manchester 2016. He said that he doesn't know how people do 15+ cubes. How things change.


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## mark49152 (Feb 9, 2018)

newtonbase said:


> I've just had a read of that and of a few of the preceding pages. @mark49152 got his first 5BLD also and you were both around 40 mins which is where I am.
> Some nice discussion of Mark's MBLD at Manchester 2016. He said that he doesn't know how people do 15+ cubes. How things change.


Wow that was fun to read, thanks! I posted my splits and memo from that 5/5 and looking at it now it seems so poor. I'm impressed I was able to recall such dreadful memo . No wonder it took me 3:25 per cube just for the first pass to come up with it!

I've kept a log of all my MBLD splits and here's a comparison of that 5/5 two years ago to my 16/17 at Weston recently. 

First pass: 3:25 / 1:08
Retrace and review: 1:32 / 0:49
Quick memo review: 0:26 / 0:19
Execution: 1:59 / 0:56

Despite it being the most improved by proportion, I still think first pass is my area of greatest potential improvement. It should not take treble my 3BLD memo time, and on smaller practice attempts I average under 0:50 so I'm unconsciously taking a slower pace at larger attempts for some reason.

It's both amusing and depressing to think that it takes me as long to recite the memo of one cube in my head to make sure I remember it, as it takes a world class solver to do a full 3BLD solve .


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## openseas (Feb 9, 2018)

Tried 4BLD - it's been a while, first time since I've got the official success last November.

12:49.41 DNF - one wing cycle off. Looks like I swapped the letter pair / executed the reverse order for that pair.

Since mostly practiced 5BLD (didn't do that much but compared to 4BLD), 4BLD feels way easier in terms of memo & execution. That impossible (at least to me) 10:00 min qualification for US Nats doesn't look to be that far away


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## SpartanSailor (Feb 9, 2018)

@openseas that's pretty impressive. I think the 3BLD Nats qualifying time is 4 mins. That's not even in the realm of possible for me at this point. 

There is a competition in Charleston, SC, at the end of March that will offer 3BLD. I'm thinking of making a weekend trip so that I can compete and make an official attempt. The have a 10 minute cumulative limit for 3 attempts. If I nail it on the first one, I'll be happy... but currently that takes me about 8 minutes. If I make the trip, I'll do every event I am able to compete it to make the trip worth it. My son thinks it would be a fun roadtrip and weekend trip too...


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## newtonbase (Feb 9, 2018)

openseas said:


> Tried 4BLD - it's been a while, first time since I've got the official success last November.
> 
> 12:49.41 DNF - one wing cycle off. Looks like I swapped the letter pair / executed the reverse order for that pair.
> 
> Since mostly practiced 5BLD (didn't do that much but compared to 4BLD), 4BLD feels way easier in terms of memo & execution. That impossible (at least to me) 10:00 min qualification for US Nats doesn't look to be that far away


I had a go at 4BLD too today. 11:43 with one word forgotten on wings and something off on centres (execution). We'll both be sub 10 soon I think. A bit of practice on wings tracing should do it for me.


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## pglewis (Feb 9, 2018)

@SpartanSailor : you might be surprised how quickly it can improve at this stage. I had my first success last Jan., I think, but I've only worked on 3bld in fits and starts so I'm not very far ahead of you. Get the tracing confident so you don't have to review your trace; review the memo, but re-tracing will eat a lot of time. If that feels overwhelming maybe try it with corners-only scrambles, it's a shorter trace to keep track of what's been solved and might build a lot of confidence when you return to a full scramble.


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## Selkie (Feb 9, 2018)

@pglewis - My very few successes a number of year ago used a POA system but not using pairs, using a single letter so 3 letters per image. I think this was a major reason for such a low success rate as a rigid 3 per image did not help with parity etc.

I have had a demotivating few days with very few successes and lots of solves where I haven't even finished memo because I cannot think of suitable images or sentences, ones where I have odd/even for edges/corners and solves which when finished have lots of missed targets which I can only assume was a bad setup or alg. Slight redemption with a success an hour ago but I do feel I am probably trying to do full solves too quickly. I need to work on so many areas of my solves that I really need to split up practice to learn some areas quicker.

Not sure what will help. Doing corners only and edges only? Tracing alone? Trying to commit more letter pair images to memory. Any tips greatly appreciated.


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## MarcelP (Feb 9, 2018)

Hi guys... It's been a while.. Life got in the way. At my work we had had some reorganisations and a take-over. In short I was not in the mood for cubing. After watching some video's of Chris it reminded how cool cubing is. I ordered some new cubes (right now I am using Weilong GTS 2!) and started cubing again. I lost a great bit of speed and lost some OLL's. I think I average 23-ish now but I do not want to do CFOP any more. So now I have to find out what I am going to do. I am looking into Roux and ZZ now. And maybe I will do some BLD finally..


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## newtonbase (Feb 9, 2018)

MarcelP said:


> Hi guys... It's been a while.. Life got in the way. At my work we had had some reorganisations and a take-over. In short I was not in the mood for cubing. After watching some video's of Chris it reminded how cool cubing is. I ordered some new cubes (right now I am using Weilong GTS 2!) and started cubing again. I lost a great bit of speed and lost some OLL's. I think I average 23-ish now but I do not want to do CFOP any more. So now I have to find out what I am going to do. I am looking into Roux and ZZ now. And maybe I will do some BLD finally..


Good to see you back cubing @MarcelP
Enjoy your hunt for a new method. Blind has taken over here recently


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## Jason Green (Feb 9, 2018)

MarcelP said:


> Hi guys... It's been a while.. Life got in the way. At my work we had had some reorganisations and a take-over. In short I was not in the mood for cubing. After watching some video's of Chris it reminded how cool cubing is. I ordered some new cubes (right now I am using Weilong GTS 2!) and started cubing again. I lost a great bit of speed and lost some OLL's. I think I average 23-ish now but I do not want to do CFOP any more. So now I have to find out what I am going to do. I am looking into Roux and ZZ now. And maybe I will do some BLD finally..


Yay it's Marcel! Chris mentioned you hinted at picking it up again on YouTube, and then I saw your unboxing.  Some new guys here have said they hope you drop in again, you're a bit of a celebrity I think. Or maybe we are all celebrities to each other. Haha. Don't worry I'm over twenty seconds if I miss a few days of practice which happens a lot. But I'm usually back down after a good session.



Selkie said:


> @pglewis - My very few successes a number of year ago used a POA system but not using pairs, using a single letter so 3 letters per image. I think this was a major reason for such a low success rate as a rigid 3 per image did not help with parity etc.
> 
> I have had a demotivating few days with very few successes and lots of solves where I haven't even finished memo because I cannot think of suitable images or sentences, ones where I have odd/even for edges/corners and solves which when finished have lots of missed targets which I can only assume was a bad setup or alg. Slight redemption with a success an hour ago but I do feel I am probably trying to do full solves too quickly. I need to work on so many areas of my solves that I really need to split up practice to learn some areas quicker.
> 
> Not sure what will help. Doing corners only and edges only? Tracing alone? Trying to commit more letter pair images to memory. Any tips greatly appreciated.


I'm one of the slower blind guys here, but I can relate to having a hard time thinking up images. What works for me sometimes is just to get a little more ridiculous. Trying to think of an example for you but having a hard time. I'll try and share one next time it comes up. Sometimes these don't seem that good but they work usually.


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## pglewis (Feb 9, 2018)

@Selkie: I've witnessed everyone here in a spell like that and the top guys seem to repeat "all blind practice is good practice". 

As a programmer I couldn't help but explore some ideas and variations on the letter pair / image approach but I eventually reached the conclusion that's it's an amazingly well optimized system for 3bld.

When I first started, I had it in my mind it might take 1-3 months to get my initial success so when it came after a week I felt incredibly ahead of schedule. I spent the next several weeks mostly practicing sighted execution. There's so many little things that can go wrong I wanted setups and execution to be a given if the memo is correct. I also spent time drilling sticker to speffz recognition because it was one more new and slow thing for me during tracing that I didn't need. Sighted execution was good for that as well, kinda like flash-cards for speffz without the mental fatigue of full tracing/memo.

After that, yeah, assigning good images to my pairs on the fly became the obvious bottleneck and still is. My biggest gain in that direction has been convincing myself that this isn't multi-blind and I only have to remember edge memo for like 45 seconds to a minute to get through edge execution, even at my green level. I memo corners first with enough attention that it can stick but it's only 4 or 5 images in most cases... that's nothing with just a little practice. I'm experimenting with remembering portions of the edge memo without images if it's feeling like it's going to cause a stall. My traces are more confident if I avoid long stalls to assign an image so I'm giving myself full permission to be more haphazard on edges. If I go down in a fiery, smoking explosion it was an acceptable sacrifice in the name of maintaining pace.


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## mark49152 (Feb 9, 2018)

@MarcelP - welcome back, great to see you here again!



Selkie said:


> Not sure what will help. Doing corners only and edges only? Tracing alone? Trying to commit more letter pair images to memory. Any tips greatly appreciated.


Look at it as a positive thing that your solves are going badly, because it means it's easier to identify areas for improvement 

Seriously though, I think full solves are the best thing to gain competence and confidence. Like anything else in cubing, or anything at all I guess, at first it seems really difficult and then after a while it clicks and seems surprisingly a lot easier. Maybe stop timing yourself to take the pressure off. If you feel like breaking the solve down to tackle some specific areas, any of the things you mentioned could help. Maybe just experiment and see what seems helpful to you. The main thing is, persevere and know that it will get easier, sooner than you think.


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## h2f (Feb 9, 2018)

@MarcelP, nice to see you back!


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## moralsh (Feb 9, 2018)

Yay @MarcelP, Welcome back!!

I'm gonna do the first 4BLD of the year right now, let's see where I stand.

Edit: 10:54 DNF, centres were an u move away and that messed also wings, Memo was poor (7:xx) and recall was just OK, I'll try to do another one tomorrow


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## Selkie (Feb 10, 2018)

@MarcelP - There is no 'love' option for a post like option here or I would have used it! Awesome to see you back. I think all of the regulars would agree that without this thread, created as a welcome post by you, we would just be very old cubers thinking there were not any others! I have met some great friends here and feel younger than I should, and performed much better than I should because of it. Start some BLD and we can celebrate the failures together 

@Jason Green , @pglewis , @mark49152 - Thanks for the words of encouragement, I will persevere and as my lettering scheme familiarity has started clicking tonight so has my tracing. I am sure it will all come good by my next comp in April.


For those of a non BLD persuasion had a 4:45.65 7x7 single and my second sub 12 3x3 average of 11.98.

Back to the letter pairs....


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## pglewis (Feb 10, 2018)

A couple failures plus a success at 5:01.73 tonight, I'm getting a good feel for what the 5 min pace is now. I know I have a 4-minuter as my PB but that was a perfect storm of friendly trace plus easy images; I was more realistically 6-8 mins before my hiatus.


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## Selkie (Feb 10, 2018)

1. DNF(6:12.07) D2 L' U2 B2 L2 R B2 D2 R B2 R' U' L D L' D' L2 B F2 L U'

Out by 2 twisted corners. Would have been a PB by a long margin. Only 8 edge targets!

Thought I would also let my older brethren know that I have joined the WCA Ethics Committee. It should keep me busy with being on the Financial Committee as well. Will be a challenging role but one I feel is important for the association moving forward.

EDIT: 4:44.66 7x7 PB single in weekly


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## newtonbase (Feb 10, 2018)

Selkie said:


> 1. DNF(6:12.07) D2 L' U2 B2 L2 R B2 D2 R B2 R' U' L D L' D' L2 B F2 L U'
> 
> Out by 2 twisted corners. Would have been a PB by a long margin. Only 8 edge targets!
> 
> ...


1:11 on that scramble Would be a PB if it counted.

Well done on the new position


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## pglewis (Feb 10, 2018)

Selkie said:


> I think all of the regulars would agree that without this thread, created as a welcome post by you, we would just be very old cubers thinking there were not any others!



Echoed here. I'm looking forward to meeting @Mike Hughey at the Great Lakes regional nearly as much as I'm looking forward to my events. It'll be the first time there was another competitor there within 20 years of me.


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## moralsh (Feb 10, 2018)

Selkie said:


> Thought I would also let my older brethren know that I have joined the WCA Ethics Committee. It should keep me busy with being on the Financial Committee as well. Will be a challenging role but one I feel is important for the association moving forward.



Congratulations on the appointment!, I was very tempted to submit to WEC and WDC but decided to wait as I plan to help on the WST and I have not much more time available.


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## Mike Hughey (Feb 10, 2018)

pglewis said:


> Echoed here. I'm looking forward to meeting @Mike Hughey at the Great Lakes regional nearly as much as I'm looking forward to my events. It'll be the first time there was another competitor there within 20 years of me.


I'm looking forward to meeting you too! I may not be there the whole time, but I expect to be there the entire day Friday, and most if not all of the day on Saturday, anyway.


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## JanW (Feb 10, 2018)

Selkie said:


> 1. DNF(6:12.07) D2 L' U2 B2 L2 R B2 D2 R B2 R' U' L D L' D' L2 B F2 L U'
> 
> Out by 2 twisted corners. Would have been a PB by a long margin. Only 8 edge targets!


Very nice scramble! DNF (1:48), 2 flipped edges. Would have been new PB for me as well.


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## Jason Green (Feb 10, 2018)

@Selkie here's an example of what I would call one of my ridiculous memos. Corners were OJ KG NH I. So I did OJ's keg never had an iguana. I pictured OJ Simpson at a beach with iguanas climbing all over everyone's keg but not his. I would not say "never had" is good for NH but it worked. I had an untimed success.


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## mark49152 (Feb 10, 2018)

Jason Green said:


> @Selkie here's an example of what I would call one of my ridiculous memos. Corners were OJ KG NH I. So I did OJ's keg never had an iguana. I pictured OJ Simpson at a beach with iguanas climbing all over everyone's keg but not his. I would not say "never had" is good for NH but it worked. I had an untimed success.


NH is a compass for me. I spill orange juice on a king who has compasses for eyes.


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## newtonbase (Feb 10, 2018)

NH is Ning (a friend of mine) so OJ Simpson puts a KeG full of Nings on Iceman's (superheroes for parity) head.


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## pglewis (Feb 10, 2018)

In non-blind news, it was time for another Ao50 today. Sliced another 1.7 seconds off last weeks' and have it down to a low 26 now. Knocked about a half second off my best Ao12 in the process. I feel a lookahead breakthrough looming on the horizon.


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## Selkie (Feb 10, 2018)

@newtonbase , @moralsh - Thank you, really looking forward to the new WCA duties to compliment the work I already do. 

@pglewis - Some great 3x3 improvement there sir!

@Jason Green - Great example of memorable images. Love it mate! For me that would have been OJ Simpson and the KinG who is a NiHalist stares at a big eye("I"). The image would be OJ Simpson and a king holding a huge pair of scissors looking at the eye (bonus points for the movie reference!?  )

I do not have a strategy for parity and often find it hard to visualise the single letter of odd targets. I like your superheros @newtonbase but laready have 5 or 6 in my letter pairs. Any other recommendations? I had considered doing a list of *Z, e.g. AZ AZure for single letters but would welcome input.


the biggest news of all, however, is that my 14 year old son, who to date has not been interested in cubing is now learning and is very enthusiastic. He started about a week ago and still uses a cheat sheet for some algs but is making great progress and is eager to join me at competitions. Very much out of the blue but a very proud dad moment


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## pglewis (Feb 11, 2018)

Selkie said:


> I do not have a strategy for parity and often find it hard to visualise the single letter of odd targets. I like your superheros @newtonbase but laready have 5 or 6 in my letter pairs. Any other recommendations? I had considered doing a list of *Z, e.g. AZ AZure for single letters but would welcome input.



Since double letters won't otherwise appear I decided to do that, so my memo would be "OJ KG NH II" (The orange juice king in the nut house said "aye, aye")



Selkie said:


> the biggest news of all, however, is that my 14 year old son, who to date has not been interested in cubing is now learning and is very enthusiastic. He started about a week ago and still uses a cheat sheet for some algs but is making great progress and is eager to join me at competitions. Very much out of the blue but a very proud dad moment



That's great news, I'm sure the inspiration usually travels the other direction these days.


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## newtonbase (Feb 11, 2018)

Selkie said:


> I do not have a strategy for parity and often find it hard to visualise the single letter of odd targets. I like your superheros @newtonbase but laready have 5 or 6 in my letter pairs. Any other recommendations? I had considered doing a list of *Z, e.g. AZ AZure for single letters but would welcome input.


I sort of regret using superheroes as I'm limited to using them in half my solves when they are such good images. Some people take the 2nd letter from their buffer piece, others use Y or Z like you suggest. You could just assign a certain characteristic to the word such as a vivid colour. I'd choose the buffer piece option if I was starting again.


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## Logiqx (Feb 11, 2018)

pglewis said:


> Nice jump! Suddenly several people knocking on the door of a sub 10 single here.



Yup. I had a full-step 10.46 last night.

It was an easy F2L but I was still turning damned fast to get through a whole solve in that time!


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## MarcelP (Feb 11, 2018)

Selkie said:


> Success!!
> Edges were:
> a *W*al*L* with *KH*aleesi sat on it eating a bowl ...



Oh that sweet Khaleesi popping up in dreams AND blind solves... LOL



newtonbase said:


> Enjoy your hunt for a new method. Blind has taken over here recently


I watched phil Yu's ZZ vids again but the EOLine is so damn hard.. I think I must throw in the towel for that method. 



Jason Green said:


> YSome new guys here have said they hope you drop in again, you're a bit of a celebrity I think. Or maybe we are all celebrities to each other. Haha. Don't worry I'm over twenty seconds if I miss a few days of practice which happens a lot. But I'm usually back down after a good session.



Celebrity? LOL not me. Although people have come up to me on competitions asking me about if i was the Marcel from SS. And through Youtube people have come to me asking if I was the fewest moves Marcelp. So.. that is another MarcelP LOL.. and I am not even going to time my self with CFOP because I know it will be horrible 

So this week I have been practicing Roux first block only.. I even watched a vid from Alexander Lau but you can not teach block building by vids unfortunatly. I focus on first 2X2 block and add the last part of the 3X2 during a the solve. Today I timed an AVG 12 of complete Roux solves just to see what the base line is. 



Spoiler: Ao12



Gegenereerd door csTimer op 2018-2-11
solves/totaal: 12/12

enkele
Beste: 28.88
Slechtste: 55.45

mean van 3
Actuele: 32.70 (σ = 3.41)
Beste: 32.70 (σ = 3.41)

avg of 5
Actuele: 34.39 (σ = 0.91)
Beste: 34.39 (σ = 0.91)

avg of 12
Actuele: 36.07 (σ = 3.12)
Beste: 36.07 (σ = 3.12)

Gemiddelde: 36.07 (s = 3.12)
Mean: 37.09


I am better than expected since i actually had to look up how to solve Roux... LOL


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## pglewis (Feb 11, 2018)

I'm interested in opinions on LL beyond OLL/PLL. I have all the tools I need to be comfortably sub 20 with cross and F2L work but I'm looking down the road beyond that. I _still_ have quite a bit of work to do on OLL recog which illustrates the importance of getting a jump on whatever I'm tackling next. There's a considerable gap between when I "learn" something and when I get it to a level that it's useful in a speedsolve. 

COLL seems like a no-brainer and I already have the H cases down with slow recog (though their low frequency means it took a while). I've been trying to decide which of the remaining OCLLs I like least as the next one to add. Some other things i'm considering sampling, smorgasbord style: 

ELL: The recognition looks easy and I suspect they'd be highly useful for blind.

OLLCP-A: Seems useful, easy to recognize, and just a small subset of OLLCP. 

CLLEF: I usually avoid dot cases but I do get 'em. Since they're among my worst OLLs this subset might be worth exploring. 

ZBLL: I'm not considering attacking full ZBLL but at least cherry-picking ones that are stupid not to know. 

I'm also considering some last slot twiddling to influence better last layers. Some WV and VLS in general seems prudent. I would like to develop an intuitive sense for corner control during F2L, I currently have none. I have a reasonable intuitive sense for edge control and often sledge things in or out and have developed alternate insertions for a lot of cases based on the EO situation... I would _really_ like to have that kind of feel for corners.


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## SpartanSailor (Feb 11, 2018)

Selkie said:


> 1. DNF(6:12.07) D2 L' U2 B2 L2 R B2 D2 R B2 R' U' L D L' D' L2 B F2 L U'
> 
> Out by 2 twisted corners. Would have been a PB by a long margin. Only 8 edge targets!
> 
> ...


Great to see you joined the ethics committee! I gave a considerable amount of thought to applying to that committee. I just couldn’t be sure I’d have the time for the commitment. That is great to hear you got it. 

Congratulations.


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## SpartanSailor (Feb 11, 2018)

I participated in the “Incredible PencilMania 2018” comp this weekend in Lancaster, PA.

Highlights include an official PB single of 21.77. I had two bad solves with multiple mistakes and still managed an Ao5 of 25.6x or so. As much as I would like it to have been better, I think it was a fair representation of my 3x3 at this time. Lots of variability (or large stnd dev for the math nerds) in my solves still. 

I was not pleased with my 2x2 nor my Skewb. But, I didn’t practice them to prepare and so can give myself a break. However, I was disappointed with my 4x4. I don’t know what happened, but I just had bad solves. I HAVE practiced and expected to do much better. Se la vie...

Break. Long post...Sorry.

I did register for a comp with 3BLD on March 31. That will be my focus for the next few weeks. I just want to be comfortable and confident at that attempt. We shall see!!


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## Jason Green (Feb 11, 2018)

@SpartanSailor my comp has a lot of similarities to yours. For the most part I got what I expected or was prepared for. The disappointment being 5x5 which I thought I should make the time limit and get a PB single. I know exactly what happened though, I got color blind during edge pairing multiple times. I would actually slice, flip, slice back, and be like what was I trying to do there?! OH was pretty off but I haven't practiced much. Blind PB just by a little, which I'm ok with so it's easy to beat again soon. 

http://m.cubecomps.com/competitions/2897/competitors/1


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## CLL Smooth (Feb 11, 2018)

@pglewis I suggest learning the rest of COLL. There’s a case against learning the S/AS cases but I think learning the recognition can be very helpful for predicting PLL. I learned all of ELL a few years ago but I only recommend learning some of them. The easy to recognize ones (pure flips, Hperms and line cases) are all well worth it in my opinion. I’m currently cheery-picking ZBLLs, which can be very useful but only after knowing COLL. I also recommend learning some more good OLLCP cases either after or along with COLL. I don’t know much LS stuff. VHLS is a no-brainer with some easy cases, but I rarely use them. I only use a few easy to recognize WV cases but they are very useful. I’d start with Pi-COLL


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## SpartanSailor (Feb 12, 2018)

Jason Green said:


> @SpartanSailor my comp has a lot of similarities to yours. For the most part I got what I expected or was prepared for. The disappointment being 5x5 which I thought I should make the time limit and get a PB single. I know exactly what happened though, I got color blind during edge pairing multiple times. I would actually slice, flip, slice back, and be like what was I trying to do there?! OH was pretty off but I haven't practiced much. Blind PB just by a little, which I'm ok with so it's easy to beat again soon.
> 
> http://m.cubecomps.com/competitions/2897/competitors/1


If I can just get a success for 3 BLD in March, that will be fantastic! Slower is better, as far as I'm concerned... as you say it makes beating it easier. 

I had one of my 4x4 attempts that really could have been fast. I use yau method, after completing my 4th cross piece, I already had 4 other completed edges. It was so unexpected, my brain couldn't figure out what to do. I should have just paired the other four edges, but in the moment it through me off so badly I fumbled about a lot. 

Even though I didn't do as well as I would have liked, I did notice that my actual nerves were much more calm than they have been previously. I'm beginning to get reasonably well know/recognized by the top cubers in the area, the event coordinators and the delegates. That makes it easier for me when I "know" several others and many of those that judge, etc...

I think I need to just focus on one or two things leading up to a comp and just let the other events just be whatever happens. I think by trying to perform well in every event, I don't focus enough on one and then do not perform when it matters because I'm not focused. For the March event, I'm going to focus on 3BLD (it's why I'm traveling to South Carolina) and then 3x3. All the other events will just have to be for fun.


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## phreaker (Feb 12, 2018)

Selkie said:


> @pglewis - My very few successes a number of year ago used a POA system but not using pairs, using a single letter so 3 letters per image. I think this was a major reason for such a low success rate as a rigid 3 per image did not help with parity etc.
> 
> I have had a demotivating few days with very few successes and lots of solves where I haven't even finished memo because I cannot think of suitable images or sentences, ones where I have odd/even for edges/corners and solves which when finished have lots of missed targets which I can only assume was a bad setup or alg. Slight redemption with a success an hour ago but I do feel I am probably trying to do full solves too quickly. I need to work on so many areas of my solves that I really need to split up practice to learn some areas quicker.
> 
> Not sure what will help. Doing corners only and edges only? Tracing alone? Trying to commit more letter pair images to memory. Any tips greatly appreciated.



My thoughts:

1. Try corners of the top, edges of the top, corners, edges, full cube... (This is my normal progression when getting back into BLD. When I get to full cube, I know my execution is solid.)

2. I'm with Noah Arthurs now... don't make a word list. Just go do attempts and make up words. Later on you can clean it up, but... memorizing 300+ words, and letter pairs... no thanks. Solving cubes... Yep! That's cool.  That's why I'm here.

I've converted from PAO -> letter pairs almost... I have a few tricks I use..

1. All my memo is AUDIO. I hate visual memo for some reason. (I think I use the visual part of my brain too much for work.)

2. Words can be non-sense.

3. Exceptions are OK if you remember them.

4. X* is expletives for me. Q* is people's names. 

5. Most important: Do what works for you. Whatever that means.


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## SpartanSailor (Feb 12, 2018)

Question: I met a guy that averages in the 2 min range and whose PB Single for 3BLD is around 55sec or so at the competition this weekend. We were discussing BLD technique--I let him know I was still new to BLD and have continued tow use OP/OP. He suggested that when I'm ready to go to M2 for edges that I find "OLD M2" rather than "NEW M2". I hadn't heard of the difference, but he said the old style used a slightly different set up that then removed the need to have special alg cases for the M-slice edge pieces. He showed me something, but it was too fast for me to notice what he did... then, of course, we both got called to do a 3x3 solve and I didn't get to finish the conversation with him. 

Anyone familiar with what he may be talking about.... old-style M2 method of edges?


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## newtonbase (Feb 12, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> Question: I met a guy that averages in the 2 min range and whose PB Single for 3BLD is around 55sec or so at the competition this weekend. We were discussing BLD technique--I let him know I was still new to BLD and have continued tow use OP/OP. He suggested that when I'm ready to go to M2 for edges that I find "OLD M2" rather than "NEW M2". I hadn't heard of the difference, but he said the old style used a slightly different set up that then removed the need to have special alg cases for the M-slice edge pieces. He showed me something, but it was too fast for me to notice what he did... then, of course, we both got called to do a 3x3 solve and I didn't get to finish the conversation with him.
> 
> Anyone familiar with what he may be talking about.... old-style M2 method of edges?


I've read a lot about blind and never heard of this.


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## SpartanSailor (Feb 12, 2018)

I thought it seemed like an odd distinction... I'll have to look more at the M2 method for edges and see how I like it. I have only been doing blind for about 6 weeks. I don't have it down perfect, a long way from that, but feel like I "get it" conceptually. I plan to put more dedicated practice into 3BLD now that I've registered for an event in 6 weeks. I'm primarily interested in success... after that, I'll be concerned with getting faster. I suspect a fair amount of speed will come naturally since I'm new to it and just expect that with dedicated practice I'll get a little faster.


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## Mike Hughey (Feb 12, 2018)

I doubt it's possible to get much older than this for "old M2" (considering it's the first place it was ever described):
http://www.stefan-pochmann.info/spocc/blindsolving/M2R2/

The way that worked is that he didn't bother with the extra algorithms - instead he just had flipped edges when he was done. Stefan explains how it works there.


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## pglewis (Feb 12, 2018)

@SpartanSailor: I've never heard of "old/new" M2 either. Since you've gone this far with OP edges I'd just stick to that without worrying about M2 until after comp. Focus on the weakest parts and see how much time cushion you can find for confidence. If you do get one you might actually place fairly well... all the competitive blinders would rather take 3 DNFs than ever waste an official attempt on a "safety solve" 

After comp I would take a week or so and just switch to M2, success or no. Granted, I've never actually done OP edges but the just the thought of all those moves for a buffer swap


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## SpartanSailor (Feb 12, 2018)

pglewis said:


> @SpartanSailor: I've never heard of "old/new" M2 either. Since you've gone this far with OP edges I'd just stick to that without worrying about M2 until after comp. Focus on the weakest parts and see how much time cushion you can find for confidence. If you do get one you might actually place fairly well... all the competitive blinders would rather take 3 DNFs than ever waste an official attempt on a "safety solve"
> 
> After comp I would take a week or so and just switch to M2, success or no. Granted, I've never actually done OP edges but the just the thought of all those moves for a buffer swap



I'm all about the safety solve! The time limit is 10:00. I'll be pleased if I get a success in 9:59.


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## pglewis (Feb 12, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> I'm all about the safety solve! The time limit is 10:00. I'll be pleased if I get a success in 9:59.



That was definitely me. I came up with odd/even and had to retrace to find where it went afoul. When I stopped the timer I heard my judge quietly say "Awwwwww..." and I figure I messed up the last couple corners or something. I took off the blindfold and was stunned to see it solved, then I looked at the timer and realized the judge's reaction was because I had less than 15 seconds left. Good enough for 6th of 17


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## openseas (Feb 12, 2018)

My guess is 1) either old means the original M2/R2 (so new means just M2/OP) or 2) new M2 means the advanced M2.


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## Selkie (Feb 14, 2018)

So, been mainly practicing memo in the last few days whilst we have been away seeing family. I still remember a memo from 4 days ago, not sure if that is a good thing or not .. SF RA QD IT EU XU VO JP / CO UP CB HQ DF.

My son has been progressing really well and really proud of his determination and progress. We filmed one of his solves an hour ago...






Not bad for starting to learn just over a week ago


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## Jason Green (Feb 14, 2018)

Selkie said:


> So, been mainly practicing memo in the last few days whilst we have been away seeing family. I still remember a memo from 4 days ago, not sure if that is a good thing or not .. SF RA QD IT EU XU VO JP / CO UP CB HQ DF.
> 
> My son has been progressing really well and really proud of his determination and progress. We filmed one of his solves an hour ago...
> 
> ...


Nice job!


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## Selkie (Feb 14, 2018)

Thanks @Jason Green , I'm sure your boys will want to start solving at some stage.

@pglewis - In my opinion you have missed out one great addition to the LL arsenal, Winter Variation. I think it can have as much impact on 3x3 as any other sub stage. Work on F2L-1 can be very valuable and whilst you could argue learning all of them may not be worth it, I think even influencing better OLL cases is valuable. Feliks has a good PDF https://www.cubeskills.com/tutorials/wv-algorithms


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## SpartanSailor (Feb 14, 2018)

Selkie said:


> Thanks @Jason Green , I'm sure your boys will want to start solving at some stage.
> 
> @pglewis - In my opinion you have missed out one great addition to the LL arsenal, Winter Variation. I think it can have as much impact on 3x3 as any other sub stage. Work on F2L-1 can be very valuable and whilst you could argue learning all of them may not be worth it, I think even influencing better OLL cases is valuable. Feliks has a good PDF https://www.cubeskills.com/tutorials/wv-algorithms


Do you really think WV is really worth it? I've looked at it before, but I don't think I was ready... now, I'm still trying to really dial in my consistency with what I do have in my arsenal. Case recognition is certainly something I need to continue to work on, I'm afraid adding all those additional cases prior to OLL would severely impact my speed and fluidity.


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## Jason Green (Feb 14, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> Do you really think WV is really worth it? I've looked at it before, but I don't think I was ready... now, I'm still trying to really dial in my consistency with what I do have in my arsenal. Case recognition is certainly something I need to continue to work on, I'm afraid adding all those additional cases prior to OLL would severely impact my speed and fluidity.


In my opinion I would finish OLL first for sure. Of course I did that long ago and have not added much more except certain F2L improvements.


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## SpartanSailor (Feb 14, 2018)

Jason Green said:


> In my opinion I would finish OLL first for sure. Of course I did that long ago and have not added much more except certain F2L improvements.


I have been working on my look ahead during F2L. Sometimes, I can really tell I'm improving. Then others... well, not so much. I haven't focused on any specific cases for F2L, instead I still generally use intuitive F2L. But I am overall improving my ability to anticipate where pieces are or to notice pieces when solving a different F2L pair which helps me move without pausing from one pair to the next. I think I have some room to continue to refine/improve before adding any new alg sets, but I am always tempted whenever I think something would be helpful.

All that said... my real focus for the next few weeks is going to be 3BLD.


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## openseas (Feb 14, 2018)

Today, 11 min 4BLD DNF by one corner cycle off. One step closer to sub 10min 4BLD.

Last Sunday, also missed 4BLD podium by missing one corner unsetup move which made following 3 corner targets off (@Jason Green watched the whole misery...)
I also missed 5BLD last Sunday - one slice off during X-center which caused all follow-up layer targets off. Everything else was good. (again, Jason watched this whole thing....)

But I see the progress in big BLD in terms of times and center/wing accuracy.

Switched memo/exe order: Corner / Midges (for 5BLD) / Wing / X-Center / T-Center (for 5BLD) and execution opposite sequence. Until last week, whatever the reason, I started from centers which took so long time that made me exhausted / impacted the rest of tracing/memo. I don't know why I did that - probably wanted to follow room method sequence.
Anyway, after switching to corner first big BLD, memo/trace is getting faster and easier. Looks like easier thing getting done makes me comfortable.


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## pglewis (Feb 14, 2018)

@Selkie: Yeah, WV is probably the top item for last slot twiddling. I'm still only mid 20s at best overall but I can see sub 20 from here and I'm coasting down from the learning curve while recog improves weekly. Your son has a crisp, controlled turning style while not out-turning too much... super impressive for how little time he's been at it. What's the over/under on number of months before he overtakes the old man? 

@SpartanSailor: Full OLL or WV, either, are going to slow you down initially. You're a little faster than I am so obviously your 2-look OLL recognition is fairly well developed and I personally found that the hardest part to break. But I agree with Jason that full OLL would be the higher priority. Now that I have it down I can clearly see the benefits of influencing better OLL cases during F2L. A number of my algs first solve to the 6-move T and then finish with that, thus it seems like it would be ideal to influence a skip, 6-move T/P, and then probably S/AS in that order, where possible. If I do a fast insert to finish F2L a little quicker it doesn't help the overall solve if my first move in OLL is to take that last pair right back out and solve it a different way. The catch 22 I'm trying to fight is: yeah, it's probably not much payoff until I'm ~15 or better, but if I wait until I'm around ~15 then I'll be reluctant to slow myself down to learn it. Maybe this way it'll be partially developed by the time it's actually useful.


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## newtonbase (Feb 14, 2018)

openseas said:


> Today, 11 min 4BLD DNF by one corner cycle off. One step closer to sub 10min 4BLD.
> 
> Last Sunday, also missed 4BLD podium by missing one corner unsetup move which made following 3 corner targets off (@Jason Green watched the whole misery...)
> I also missed 5BLD last Sunday - one slice off during X-center which caused all follow-up layer targets off. Everything else was good. (again, Jason watched this whole thing....)
> ...


I do pretty much the same order but with the centres the other way..i like it as it lets me switch midges and wings to avoid parity. Also, as centre tracing is easy I can go audio on one type. Did my 3rd attempt today and it looked a bit of a mess but i think there were only 2 execution errors at most. Looking forward to attempt number 4 at Manchester.


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## Shaky Hands (Feb 15, 2018)

I've been doing a lot of Megaminx practice lately, which is somewhat unexpected as at the previous comp I went to I didn't even bother entering the event.

5th Feb - Ao100: 3:12.57
8th Feb - Ao100: 2:51.96
10th Feb - Ao100: 2:45.56
12th Feb - Ao100: 2:39.88
15th Feb - Ao100: 2:32.52

Current PB single is 2:03.40.

Really happy with the progress I've been making with this puzzle. I think I should be able to get an official average in 2018.


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## openseas (Feb 15, 2018)

11min Success! (4BLD)

11:47.81 [6:17.64] B2 Fw2 F2 R' B2 D' U' R2 U2 L D2 L' Uw' D2 Fw2 F' U D F' U' D B2 Rw L' Fw Uw2 D B' Uw2 L2 Uw2 D2 U2 F' U Fw' D F2 L2 Rw2

This scramble was way too easy for center


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## kbrune (Feb 15, 2018)

Hey guys! Long time I haven't been on here. Hope everyone's doing well.

I've been getting back into BLD lately since im finally registered in a comp that has both 3BLD and Multi. This will be my first Multi result so I've been trying to get some practice in.

I remember reading about @mark49152 using Z in letter pairs to indicate parity. I think this will work well for me in multi.
I'm missing quite a few so I was hoping to get some suggestions from my speedsolving friends.

Here are the ones Im looking for: I'm missing quite a bit! I may use X for a few to fill in the blanks if necessary.
CZ
DZ
EZ
GZ
HZ
IZ
NZ
OZ (Wiz of Oz) edit
PZ
RZ
SZ
TZ
VZ
WZ (Gandalf) edit


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## openseas (Feb 15, 2018)

kbrune said:


> CZ
> DZ
> EZ
> GZ
> ...



CZ - Czech
DZ - DMZ
EZ - EZ Pass (toll pass)
HZ - Herz
IZ - IZZE (my kids' favorite drink - you can search images then easy to remember. If you actually drink, will not forget)
NZ - New Zealand
OZ - yes, Wizard of Oz
PZ - Pizza
RZ - Ritz (crackers)
SZ - Seizure
TZ - Tarzan
VZ - Vizio
WZ - Wizard (any specific guy in the Harry Porter will work)


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## Mike Hughey (Feb 15, 2018)

kbrune said:


> Hey guys! Long time I haven't been on here. Hope everyone's doing well.
> 
> I've been getting back into BLD lately since im finally registered in a comp that has both 3BLD and Multi. This will be my first Multi result so I've been trying to get some practice in.
> 
> ...


I'm curious about this using Z for parity thing? Is this just to convert a single letter into a letter pair image? If so, I just have single letter images to go with all my 2-letter images; I used to use those for buffer pieces, although now I only use them for leftover pieces when I have an odd number.

But if you want to come up with words for Z, for some you can use "s" words that have the "z" sound, so that might help.

Here's what I have used for these, back when I did megaminx BLD and needed them:
CZ - Casio keyboard (not really a Z sound, but it's what I thought of when I saw the letter combination)
DZ - daze (usually work this in as an adjective somehow)
EZ - easy rider (motorcycle rider)
GZ - gauze
HZ - haze
IZ - izod (alligator shirt)
NZ - nozzle
OZ - ounce (little metal scale weight)
PZ - Pez
RZ - rez (TRON deresolution)
SZ - sizzle (steak cooking)
TZ - Tasmanian devil (Taz from Bugs Bunny cartoons)
VZ - vizier (Jafar from Aladdin)
WZ - wizard


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## openseas (Feb 15, 2018)

Mike Hughey said:


> NZ - nozzle
> NZ - nozzle
> OZ - ounce (little metal scale weight)
> SZ - sizzle (steak cooking)



Oh, I like yours.


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## kbrune (Feb 15, 2018)

Mike Hughey said:


> I'm curious about this using Z for parity thing? Is this just to convert a single letter into a letter pair image? If so, I just have single letter images to go with all my 2-letter images; I used to use those for buffer pieces, although now I only use them for leftover pieces when I have an odd number.



Yeah I was considering either using Z or just using single letter with names that are doubled up. Like A - Andre Agassi.
I just figured having an actual letter in my memo as distinct as Z would guarantee that I remember parity. So Z would mean parity really. It's possible id be just as successful using single letter images. Actually I'm compiling a list for both but I'm prioritizing Z pairs at the moment.


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## kbrune (Feb 15, 2018)

@openseas @Mike Hughey 
Using both your suggestions I only have 2 left to go! 

Mike I was perusing your WCA profile and I noticed you have a result in Multi that says "old style" 15/15
What was different about that attempt in 2008?


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## mark49152 (Feb 15, 2018)

Yes I use Z to indicate parity. I started doing it because of audio, but extended the idea to images. As I've said before, it doesn't really matter how letters map to images once you've learned them so I doubt it has any advantage over using doubled letters or single letters. (Note that doubled letters is a bad idea if you use M2 and swap M slice targets in memo like I do. CC, SS etc. are legitimate sequences for me.)

Here are a few of mine...
CZ - tea cosy
EZ - easy E (rapper)
HZ - Heinz beans
IZ - eyes
NZ - nazi
OZ - ozzy osbourne
PZ - pizza
RZ - razor
SZ - seizure
TZ - tazer
VZ - visor
WZ - wizard


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## openseas (Feb 15, 2018)

BTW, kinda BLD day today.

Got Mo3 4BLD of 13:20!

+ made a first ever 6BLD attempt. A total disaster. Gotta respect obliques.


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## pglewis (Feb 15, 2018)

mark49152 said:


> (Note that doubled letters is a bad idea if you use M2 and swap M slice targets in memo like I do. CC, SS etc. are legitimate sequences for me.)



That's a good caveat I hadn't thought of; I don't swap during memo but if I wanted to try it in the future... 

On the plus side, most of the double letter pairs are easy to come up with images.


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## Mike Hughey (Feb 15, 2018)

kbrune said:


> Mike I was perusing your WCA profile and I noticed you have a result in Multi that says "old style" 15/15
> What was different about that attempt in 2008?


If you look at the time, you'll see! 2 hours 12 minutes. This was during the brief time when you were allowed 10 minutes per cube, with no overall cap. A few months later, Ryosuke Mondo attempted 50 cubes in 6 hours (33/50 in 6 hours 3 minutes), and shortly after that the hour limit was born.

The year before that, they actually required 100% accuracy to count as a truly valid solve, but they did track failure results. I remember Rowe Hessler's 5/8 "failure" at my first competition, the 2007 US Open. You can see that accuracy was everything at one point by looking at Rowe's Toronto Open Winter 2008 results: he got 9/12 on his first attempt, and 2/2 on his second attempt. The 2/2 was his result for the competition; Eric Limeback won with 3/3.

Edit: And how could I have forgotten - at that same competition where Eric Limeback came in first place with 3/3, Ryosuke Mondo came in third place with 17/18 (in 2 hours and 10 minutes)!!!


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## openseas (Feb 15, 2018)

Mike Hughey said:


> The year before that, they actually required 100% accuracy to count as a truly valid solve, but they did track failure results. I remember Rowe Hessler's 5/8 "failure" at my first competition, the 2007 US Open. You can see that accuracy was everything at one point by looking at Rowe's Toronto Open Winter 2008 results: he got 9/12 on his first attempt, and 2/2 on his second attempt. The 2/2 was his result for the competition; Eric Limeback won with 3/3.
> 
> Edit: And how could I have forgotten - at that same competition where Eric Limeback came in first place with 3/3, Ryosuke Mondo came in third place with 17/18 (in 2 hours and 10 minutes)!!!



Always great to hear old & fun stories!
I also saw you last year 2017 US Nats - you've got 12/12, right? You did right after my son - heard people were saying really impressed that you're still active and doing so many cubes.


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## Mike Hughey (Feb 15, 2018)

openseas said:


> Always great to hear old & fun stories!
> I also saw you last year 2017 US Nats - you've got 12/12, right? You did right after my son - heard people were saying really impressed that you're still active and doing so many cubes.


That's nice to hear - yes, that was me. That was a real highlight for me - I totally didn't expect to get that! I mainly practiced regular 3x3x3 BLD for that competition (and a little big BLD), and I guess the practice paid off more for multi than for single BLD.  I only did one serious multi practice attempt in preparation for that competition.

I admit I'm thoroughly enjoying getting to be the seasoned veteran telling all the old stories, here among the oldies.  (Just because I started doing this a few years before most of you.)


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## Jason Green (Feb 16, 2018)

Mike Hughey said:


> If you look at the time, you'll see! 2 hours 12 minutes. This was during the brief time when you were allowed 10 minutes per cube, with no overall cap. A few months later, Ryosuke Mondo attempted 50 cubes in 6 hours (33/50 in 6 hours 3 minutes), and shortly after that the hour limit was born.
> 
> The year before that, they actually required 100% accuracy to count as a truly valid solve, but they did track failure results. I remember Rowe Hessler's 5/8 "failure" at my first competition, the 2007 US Open. You can see that accuracy was everything at one point by looking at Rowe's Toronto Open Winter 2008 results: he got 9/12 on his first attempt, and 2/2 on his second attempt. The 2/2 was his result for the competition; Eric Limeback won with 3/3.
> 
> Edit: And how could I have forgotten - at that same competition where Eric Limeback came in first place with 3/3, Ryosuke Mondo came in third place with 17/18 (in 2 hours and 10 minutes)!!!


So how did the scoring work? You must get some points without perfection if 17/18 placed, but 2/2 still beats 9/12. Minus 3 for every unsolved or something? Those are fun stories for sure!


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## SpartanSailor (Feb 16, 2018)

Lots of updates since I last popped in...

I had a decent to good day. Had some really good 3x3 times solves with a couple 19s in there and a whole lot of 21s and 22s. That’s good for me. I was pretty consistent today too.

Then did some 4x4 and got a PB single of 1:16.221. I’ll take that. 

Then did some 3BLD practice. Only got 1 of 4 attempts. But... it was the first. Of the four, it was the easiest in my opinion and the only “even” set of targets. I had a good memo too... after that, I had a couple where I reversed the memo... like DUVD but did DVUD or something like that. Then another where I put all the white corners in the wrong spots. I still have to “learn” my letter scheme better so I don’t assign the wrong letter during my memo... I put them where the memo tells me, but assign the wronh location.

Overall... I’m pleased. I need to just do more corner and edge only practice too. I think that will help me with my memo development.


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## Mike Hughey (Feb 16, 2018)

Jason Green said:


> So how did the scoring work? You must get some points without perfection if 17/18 placed, but 2/2 still beats 9/12. Minus 3 for every unsolved or something? Those are fun stories for sure!


I just discovered the WCA finally has all the old regulations posted! Here are the 2007 rules for multi scoring:

9f16) For the 3x3x3 Cube: Multiple Blindfolded event the order in the results is based on:
Highest in the ranking are the competitors who solved all puzzles, among these competitors a larger number means better. For equal results the lower total time means better.
Next in the ranking are the competitors who solved at least one of the puzzles, among these competitors a larger number of solved puzzles means better, and after this a lower number of attempted puzzles means better. For equal results the lower total time means better.
Next in the ranking are the competitors who did not solve at least one puzzle, these competitors all finish at the worst position.

It took several iterations to get to the modern rules. When I did my old-style solve, they had changed the scoring rules to match what we have today, but hadn't changed the time limit yet.


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## Jason Green (Feb 16, 2018)

Mike Hughey said:


> I just discovered the WCA finally has all the old regulations posted! Here are the 2007 rules for multi scoring:
> 
> 9f16) For the 3x3x3 Cube: Multiple Blindfolded event the order in the results is based on:
> Highest in the ranking are the competitors who solved all puzzles, among these competitors a larger number means better. For equal results the lower total time means better.
> ...


That's cool, kind of funny! I thought you had said Mondo got 2nd but see you said 3rd. Rowe's 2/2 beat his 17/18. Hahaha.


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## Mike Hughey (Feb 16, 2018)

Jason Green said:


> That's cool, kind of funny! I thought you had said Mondo got 2nd but see you said 3rd. Rowe's 2/2 beat his 17/18. Hahaha.


Yes, I think the results from that competition had a bit to do with the creation of the point system. I admit I was arguing in favor of the "perfect score wins" angle, though; I like the idea of high accuracy.  (And, truth be told, I was somewhat under the impression that Mondo himself liked the perfect score rule too - I think he wanted to get a perfect result with a large number of cubes, and he came really close that day!) But I lost that battle years ago, and I agree that the current system is better for the event's popularity.

@openseas: I guess I didn't really realize who you are before now. Your son is quite amazing at BLD!


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## openseas (Feb 16, 2018)

Mike Hughey said:


> @openseas: I guess I didn't really realize who you are before now. Your son is quite amazing at BLD!



@Mike Hughey / Thanks! Still heart breaking whenever we bumped into that logo videos :-(


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## Mike Hughey (Feb 16, 2018)

openseas said:


> @Mike Hughey / Thanks! Still heart breaking whenever we bumped into that logo videos :-(


Oh wow, I forgot that was your son that had that happen. I'm very sorry that had to happen to him! I was just remembering how good he was when I watched him in the 3BLD finals at Nationals this year!


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## Jason Green (Feb 16, 2018)

Mike Hughey said:


> Yes, I think the results from that competition had a bit to do with the creation of the point system. I admit I was arguing in favor of the "perfect score wins" angle, though; I like the idea of high accuracy.  (And, truth be told, I was somewhat under the impression that Mondo himself liked the perfect score rule too - I think he wanted to get a perfect result with a large number of cubes, and he came really close that day!) But I lost that battle years ago, and I agree that the current system is better for the event's popularity.
> 
> @openseas: I guess I didn't really realize who you are before now. Your son is quite amazing at BLD!


You know on the other hand if I was a blinder back in the beginning I could see myself arguing for perfection winning also.  Something about really knowing your capability has some appeal. Kind of like an interview candidate who is willing to admit they don't know something you ask them instead of making stuff up. But I think this is different because even if you aim at or below your ability, it's still too easy to make a small mistake, and the larger number of solved cubes is more important.

Yes @openseas is very modest about his son. I find myself wanting to brag for him a lot.  If my kids ever get into it you'll probably have to tell me to shut up about any small achievement. Haha. Also they do a great job organizing events! He and his son put on the event we were at last Sunday and it ran really well, almost perfectly on schedule I think.


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## openseas (Feb 16, 2018)

Mike Hughey said:


> I'm very sorry that had to happen to him! I was just remembering how good he was when I watched him in the 3BLD finals at Nationals this year!



@Mike Hughey / Thanks, again. Next time (this year's Nats?), we can say (more than) hello~



Jason Green said:


> Yes @openseas is very modest about his son. I find myself wanting to brag for him a lot.  If my kids ever get into it you'll probably have to tell me to shut up about any small achievement. Haha. Also they do a great job organizing events! He and his son put on the event we were at last Sunday and it ran really well, almost perfectly on schedule I think.



Thanks, @Jason Green . We had 45 new competitors out of 85, it was huge! I'm so glad we had so many new people & gave many opportunities. We need to do this often to grow our community!


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## Logiqx (Feb 16, 2018)

Good luck in Manchester guys - @mark49152, @Shaky Hands, @newtonbase.

I'm doing my usual trick of peaking for a competition that I'm not even attending. Here's a sub-15 Ao12 from earlier today!

Times = 15.19 (13.17) 13.54 15.71 15.98 (18.05) 14.67 15.63 15.95 13.47 14.77 14.04 = 14.89 Ao12

I didn't realise that I had so many pauses in my F2L until reviewing my recent Ao5 video and this Ao12 video. I've had a couple of full step 10.x solves this week when I've been turning smoothly and without pausing - 10.4 and 10.6 iirc. This video also includes a missed sub-10 opportunity... 11.23 was a bit of a waste as it was pretty easy and the LL was FRUR'U'F'.

Lots of room for improvement but I'm making progress again!

Thanks for the inspiration @Selkie + head to head competitions at work @Ollie.


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## SpartanSailor (Feb 16, 2018)

I have a habit of peaking in the days following a competition that I actually did attend.


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## Logiqx (Feb 16, 2018)

pglewis said:


> COLL seems like a no-brainer and I already have the H cases down with slow recog (though their low frequency means it took a while). I've been trying to decide which of the remaining OCLLs I like least as the next one to add. Some other things i'm considering sampling, smorgasbord style:



COLL is nice but it's of more use during OH than 2H. If you're going to learn some cases then consider which ones go together - e.g. D2 + D3 + E3 + E5. These four cases go together because they're essentially mirrors and inverses. They also look very similar from the top - e.g. D2 and D3 both having matching colours on top whereas E3 and E5 have adjacent colours on top. I learned COLL in 4's because you can do the two cases which look the same on top and their inverses (typically another OCLL).

https://cubing.mikeg.me.uk/algs/coll.html

Here was the order that I learnt them if you're interested:

H1 + H6 + D1 + D6, H (same on top) + L (adj on top), RU + RUF + RrUF
E1 / F1 + E4 / F4, U (opp on top) + T (same on top), RU + RUF
E3 / D3 + E5 / D2, U (adj on top) + L (same on top), RUD
D4 / F5 + D5 / F3, L (opp on top) + T (adj on top), RrUF + RUD
E2 + E6 + F2 + F6, U (same on top) + T (opp on top), RUF + RrUF + RrUD
G3 / H2 + G5 / H3, Pi (same on top) + H (mixed on top), RUF (2H) + RUL (OH)
G1 + G6 + G2 / G4, Pi (mixed on top) + Pi (slash on top), RrUF (2H) + RUL (OH) + RrUD



pglewis said:


> OLLCP-A: Seems useful, easy to recognize, and just a small subset of OLLCP.



I learnt OLLCP-A during the Christmas break a year ago but I forgot it again through lack of use. Many of the algs are nice to learn but the reality is that the cases come up infrequently and I only ever got an advantage when I got an EPLL skip. On average, I was definitely slower and it would have taken a lot of effort for it to be faster on average than OLL + PLL.



pglewis said:


> CLLEF: I usually avoid dot cases but I do get 'em. Since they're among my worst OLLs this subset might be worth exploring.



IMHO, try to avoid them with a sledgehammer and if/when you do get them, only half of the dot cases are actually bad.



pglewis said:


> ZBLL: I'm not considering attacking full ZBLL but at least cherry-picking ones that are stupid not to know.



Individual cases come up infrequently... 1/3888 solves when left to chance. Potentially 1/972 solves if you force EO in 50% of your solves. I started to learn some 2GLL's (i.e. 2-gen subset of ZBLL, 2-gen superset of COLL) but they came up so infrequently and with harder recognition, I decided it wasn't useful for me. Chances are I'd fail to notice the cases I know and waste time trying to recognise cases I don't know!



pglewis said:


> I'm also considering some last slot twiddling to influence better last layers. Some WV and VLS in general seems prudent. I would like to develop an intuitive sense for corner control during F2L, I currently have none. I have a reasonable intuitive sense for edge control and often sledge things in or out and have developed alternate insertions for a lot of cases based on the EO situation... I would _really_ like to have that kind of feel for corners.



Intuitive EO can be useful and I do it when it's not costly. I should probably learn some easy WV cases if I'm able to spot them mid-F2L pair without pausing (i.e. between the setup and insertion).


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## pglewis (Feb 16, 2018)

Logiqx said:


> I'm doing my usual trick of peaking for a competition that I'm not even attending. Here's a sub-15 Ao12 from earlier today!



Glad to see someone else enjoys hard driving music in the morning. A lot of inspiration here following the progress you and @Selkie continue making. I'd have to consider that 6-move T the next best thing to a LL skip, robbed again! 



Logiqx said:


> [regarding COLL] If you're going to learn some cases then consider which ones go together - e.g. D2 + D3 + E3 + E5. These four cases go together because they're essentially mirrors and inverses. They also look very similar from the top - e.g. D2 and D3 both having matching colours on top whereas E3 and E5 have adjacent colours on top. I learned COLL in 4's because you can do the two cases which look the same on top and their inverses (typically another OCLL).



Interesting approach, I hadn't considered attacking it that way. I currently have the Hs and half of Pi down but I'm coming back to this over the weekend to digest it. 



Logiqx said:


> Intuitive EO can be useful and I do it when it's not costly. I should probably learn some easy WV cases if I'm able to spot them mid-F2L pair without pausing (i.e. between the setup and insertion).



I fiddled with EO in untimed solves long enough that it has become fairly automatic at times. I was surprised I actually had to consciously break that habit for a couple weeks in order to finish learning the dot OLLs. Spotting the EO situation seems to follow how well my lookahead is going. When I'm in a groove I just see things without searching and get a lot of effortless low 20s or better. When I'm not, I find myself watching my current pair all the way into its slot, frantically searching for a specific corner or edge that appears to have been removed from my puzzle, and realize I'm completely ignoring EO during the solve. This is obviously the area where I'll shed the most time still, training myself to harness the lookahead more consistently. It's still moving the right direction just at a glacial pace. 

I appreciate the insight on the other areas, I have plenty to keep me busy with COLL for now while waiting for the lookahead to continue coming together.


----------



## pglewis (Feb 16, 2018)

Also, @Logiqx: I'm thinking a second angle for some of my OLLs/PLLs might be more immediate payoff than the less frequent algset cases. The handful I already do this with have turned out pretty useful at least: I have 2 angles for two of the Gs (I wanted a headlights left alg for all of 'em so in theory I could AUF before I even know which it is), I can do S/AS and JPerms from two different angles (in both cases it's just two algs and mirrors). 

I'm guessing you know a number of multiple angles with all the OH you do at least.


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## newtonbase (Feb 16, 2018)

After 4 hard years of not really practicing I got my first sub 20s 3x3 while sat in the chippy. A top cuber would have got a 3 on the solution.


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## xyzzy (Feb 16, 2018)

Just saw this post because of Logiqx's reply, and here are my two cents.


pglewis said:


> I'm interested in opinions on LL beyond OLL/PLL.


The very first thing I must say is that anything beyond a standard 2LLL hits diminishing returns very, very quickly. You can spend hundreds of hours learning parts of ZBLL (like I did…) and still not be any faster than if you'd just focused on F2L. (Which is not to say that you can't learn new LL algs or tricks or whatever; it's just that it'll provide extremely marginal improvement.)


pglewis said:


> ELL: The recognition looks easy and I suspect they'd be highly useful for blind.


I find ELL recognition to be rather annoying, but maybe that's just because I haven't practised it enough. (In theory it should be easier to recog than EPLL since you possibly have additional stickers visible on the top face, but in practice you need to learn an entirely new recognition system to handle it.) The 3-cycle and pure flip cases are useful for BLD even at the intermediate level, but the others are only "useful" if you're super advanced (sub-30?), I think.


pglewis said:


> CLLEF: I usually avoid dot cases but I do get 'em. Since they're among my worst OLLs this subset might be worth exploring.


One _gigantic_ problem with CLLEF is that if you use any edge control at all, they'll show up in your solves very rarely and you _will_ have alg recall issues if you don't dedicate time to drilling those algs. I've probably learnt about 20 cases and forgotten half of them.

I still think CLLEF is worth learning in the long run, but it's not going to be easy to learn and retain.


pglewis said:


> ZBLL: I'm not considering attacking full ZBLL but at least cherry-picking ones that are stupid not to know.


That's what everyone says at first, but the ZBLL rabbit hole is _deep_. (Personal experience.)


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## newtonbase (Feb 16, 2018)

Looking forward to seeing everyone attending the Manchester Open tomorrow and best of luck to anyone competing elsewhere.

Can't wait to give 5BLD a try but I'm putting my chance of success at 20%. Domestic PB streak is relying on a half decent 3BLD round or some very good luck.


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## bubbagrub (Feb 16, 2018)

Have a great comp this weekend, UK oldies, and anyone else who's competing.


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## Logiqx (Feb 16, 2018)

pglewis said:


> Also, @Logiqx: I'm thinking a second angle for some of my OLLs/PLLs might be more immediate payoff than the less frequent algset cases. The handful I already do this with have turned out pretty useful at least: I have 2 angles for two of the Gs (I wanted a headlights left alg for all of 'em so in theory I could AUF before I even know which it is), I can do S/AS and JPerms from two different angles (in both cases it's just two algs and mirrors).
> 
> I'm guessing you know a number of multiple angles with all the OH you do at least.



I generally have 2 angles for OCLLs (includes Sune/Anti-Sune) and F sexy / reverse-sexy type OLLs. I only have 1 angle for Pills, except U-Perms.

If you look at my alg page(s) on a computer you'll easily see the cases that I use multiple algs.


----------



## One Wheel (Feb 17, 2018)

This has been a long time coming: I was doing a very poor set on 3x3 before bed (1 solve over 50, most mid-30s). I got 3 sub-30s in a row, and decided I'd quit my next solve over 30 seconds. 6th solve under 30 seconds was *17.84!* 2nd (maybe 3rd) ever sub-20, beats 18.79 pb from May 4th, *2016*.

Scramble:
L' F2 D' F2 D2 B2 U F2 L2 D L2 U R' U' R' U R B2 D'

I tried reconstructing it, but all I can get for sure is that after some inspection rotations I did R D2 R to make a green cross. The green-red-yellow pair was my first pair, and I ended up with OLL 22 and a U-perm, with a sloppy U3' to finish it off.


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## mark49152 (Feb 17, 2018)

Good luck in 5BLD Mark, and good luck to everyone competing. Unfortunately I can't make it to Manchester. I got sick .


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## Logiqx (Feb 17, 2018)

mark49152 said:


> Good luck in 5BLD Mark, and good luck to everyone competing. Unfortunately I can't make it to Manchester. I got sick .



That's bad luck. Sorry to hear that you're unwell and going to miss out.


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## Logiqx (Feb 17, 2018)

I have occasionally wondered if it would be worth having a shared Google sheet with our home PBs listed.

E.g. One tab per event so that we can list our PBs - single, 5, 12, 50, 100

I think it might be a nice way of seeing how we're all doing and give us something to chase!


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## Mike Hughey (Feb 17, 2018)

Logiqx said:


> I have occasionally wondered if it would be worth having a shared Google sheet with our home PBs listed.
> 
> E.g. One tab per event so that we can list our PBs - single, 5, 12, 50, 100
> 
> I think it might be a nice way of seeing how we're all doing and give us something to chase!


I like the idea. But one problem I have now is that I've lost track of my PBs. Just about all my PBs are several years in the past, and I since lost track of all my timing sessions. Lately I've been using trying to break my competition PBs as a current motivator. Unfortunately, I still have a rather long way to go to get where I was before in most official events (specifically, all but multiBLD).

I suppose that as a starting point, I could use my PBs in competition, either official or online, whichever is best? I suppose I can argue those are my best times of those I have recorded, so it's not too far off?


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## SpartanSailor (Feb 17, 2018)

I don’t track my PBs in every event... I do keep track of my 3x3 and 4x4 singles and Ao5, but not 50 or 100. 

I kind of know my 2x2 single, but that one can be so lucky that I focus more on consistency and trying to get a comp Ao5 under 6 (which I’m a long way from doing).


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## Shaky Hands (Feb 17, 2018)

Hope you feel better soon @mark49152.


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## pglewis (Feb 17, 2018)

Good luck to all those competing this weekend and big props to @newtonbase and @One Wheel for sub-20ing without really trying 

My main target for this weekend is to begin stretching my legs a little for mbld, I'd like to land a 2/2 under 20 mins.


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## newtonbase (Feb 17, 2018)

Firstly day of Manchester done. PB average on 2x2 due to lucky scrambles. Missed OH PB by under a second. Thought I'd beaten the skewb cut by .1s but got a plus 2. Clock started OK but ended in DNF average. 5BLD was the main target today but was my worst attempt yet. The scramble was rubbish with 4 cycles on wings and only 1 solved centre but it was poor execution that let me down. There was only one successful solve in the whole round.
Looking forward to 3BLD tomorrow.


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## mark49152 (Feb 17, 2018)

Unlucky with the 5BLD scramble Mark. It's the toughest and most unforgiving event. Good luck to all tomorrow!


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## newtonbase (Feb 17, 2018)

mark49152 said:


> Unlucky with the 5BLD scramble Mark. It's the toughest and most unforgiving event. Good luck to all tomorrow!


Can't blame the scramble. Memo felt good and I had time for extra reviews which is a positive from the experience i do beed to improve my focus and get more used to the setups. I'll work on 4BLD and 5BLD until High Wycombe I think.
Missed opportunity for you today.


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## Jason Green (Feb 17, 2018)

Logiqx said:


> I have occasionally wondered if it would be worth having a shared Google sheet with our home PBs listed.
> 
> E.g. One tab per event so that we can list our PBs - single, 5, 12, 50, 100
> 
> I think it might be a nice way of seeing how we're all doing and give us something to chase!


I like the idea a lot, partly because I don't track most PBs and it would give me a reason to do it (if I could get in the habit).


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## mark49152 (Feb 17, 2018)

newtonbase said:


> Missed opportunity for you today.


Looks that way, but I've done no practice on 5BLD since UKC so would have been rusty but still rushing to fit in 3 attempts. Had very little time to practise anything in the last few weeks. I'm looking forward to MBLD at Guildford but hope I can actually get to prepare for it.


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## SpartanSailor (Feb 17, 2018)

Just did over an hour of 3BLD practice with no successes. Some were a simple dropping of a memo pair... others were so messed up I have to think I missed the “un”-setup of an early edge which resulted in a different orientation of my cube. Because it was a pure mess....

I’m trying to avoid too much frustration. I did feel a little better about my memo work... or tracing seemed to go ever so slightly better...


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## SpartanSailor (Feb 17, 2018)

I just checked out Manchester on cubecomps... I can’t believe how many Big Blind competitors there are!! Wow! 

Looks like a good competition!


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## pglewis (Feb 18, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> Just did over an hour of 3BLD practice with no successes. Some were a simple dropping of a memo pair... others were so messed up I have to think I missed the “un”-setup of an early edge which resulted in a different orientation of my cube. Because it was a pure mess....
> 
> I’m trying to avoid too much frustration. I did feel a little better about my memo work... or tracing seemed to go ever so slightly better...



Everybody has 'em. I didn't have a single success for like 3 or 4 days leading up to comp, just means you're overdue for a good one.


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## Selkie (Feb 18, 2018)

Wow so, so much discussion in thread over the last week or so. A full review of what I wanted to say had to be made which is a testament to the achievements and diversity of events us older cubers have. Apologies but I have not been very active this week, a half term leave with a visit to family, some family outings and other matters have interfered with cubing!
...
@Logiqx - The progress you have made since you have been practicing 3x3 again is awesome. Those fullstep 10.x, the sub 15 ao12 on film. I'll quote a a conversation with Feliks referring to us old two farts  .. "...I think if we combined both of your best attributes, you'd be sub 12 easily...". Personally I think you have the best chance of topping the over 40's overall. I am in awe of your smooth turning and finger control. Your TPS has improved in your latest videos too. I completely approve of the cubing music but I have one huge criticism which needs working on. Buddy, your wine rack is empty!!  Love the idea of the oldies PB sheet. Like @Mike Hughey , there are some that I do not remember but anything that motivates us is an awesome plus for me and if there was a facility to enter an approximation and note it so maybe would suffice? Also the ability a link to a video if it was caught on film would be great.

@MarcelP - Could KH in blind be anything else at all buddy?!  How is the roux going matey?

@SpartanSailor - F2L is a very strange beast that does come more proficient in time. There can be some points/tips that can make immediate impact though. Slow exploratory solves can helps a lot, Bias in solving to back slots is a great habit to adopt, Always look at intuitive algs that feel bad and try to optimise, question every rotation you make and if you make 2 in a pair, it isn't needed! Best of luck at the comp, I am sure you will do great at BLD 

@Jason Green - Awesome BLD single mate. I still do not comprehend how someone can reliably get a 6.xy single in comp, a time I cannot envisage I can attain any time soon at home. Did the boys attend with you?

@phreaker - I really like the X* letter pair words being expletives, I might adopt this to a certain extent as my dead animals are hard to distinguish!

@pglewis - Thank you. Selkie Jnr (aka Guy  ) is making great progress and has a 47.xy PB single now. I am going to get worried soon 

@openseas - Great 4BLD single time but the mean is such an achievement.

@One Wheel - A 2 year old PB beaten is great 

@mark49152 - Get well soon buddy

@newtonbase - Wow mate, sub 20, congratulations! As Ron has said in the past the key is in no practice! 

@Shaky Hands - Really looking forward to catching up soon and doing some megaminx with you my friend. I am struggling to average sub 2:20 currently after getting to sub 2:05 globally 18 months ago. All the best of luck tomorrow (actually today) in comp dude.

@Mike Hughey - Was really interested to hear about the history of old style MBLD. I can see why the 10min per cube became unmanageable and the rules had to change but I can also see how an accuracy bias gives the discipline a different twist altogether.

My apologies for the number of tags fellow oldies


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## Jason Green (Feb 18, 2018)

Thanks @Selkie! The boys did get to go, and a former coworker friend went to keep the boys occupied also. He filmed a couple of blind attempts for me. Not sure if I'll do a video, I might do my mishaps compilation from this video if anything. I amused myself listening to all my grunts and moans when I messed stuff up from this comp.


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## newtonbase (Feb 18, 2018)

3BLD round 1. 1:52 PB then 1:48. Solve 3 i decided to go for my first average. Sat down, relaxed, focused on orientation then lifted the cover without starting the timer.


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## mark49152 (Feb 18, 2018)

Nice job Mark! And another chance in the second round


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## newtonbase (Feb 18, 2018)

mark49152 said:


> Nice job Mark! And another chance in the second round


Yes. My first final!


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## Mike Hughey (Feb 18, 2018)

newtonbase said:


> Sat down, relaxed, focused on orientation then lifted the cover without starting the timer.


I did that once at an official competition too.


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## mark49152 (Feb 18, 2018)

Congratulations Mark @newtonbase on the 1:33 in the final .


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## pglewis (Feb 18, 2018)

newtonbase said:


> Domestic PB streak is relying on a half decent 3BLD round or some very good luck.



[...]



mark49152 said:


> Congratulations Mark @newtonbase on the 1:33 in the final .



Well then. 

Congrats on a great day @newtonbase!


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## pglewis (Feb 18, 2018)

Selkie said:


> Bias in solving to back slots is a great habit to adopt



This is something I have been trying to adopt myself and I need to make a more concerted effort. It seems like I find myself with my unsolved slots in the back too often to be random. I suspect I have some subconscious habits driving me to solve in the front despite plenty of practice with various back slot cases.



Selkie said:


> @pglewis - Thank you. Selkie Jnr (aka Guy  ) is making great progress and has a 47.xy PB single now. I am going to get worried soon



At this rate it's too late to get worried and nearly time to hit him up for pointers .



Selkie said:


> I really like the X* letter pair words being expletives, I might adopt this to a certain extent as my dead animals are hard to distinguish!



I usually use excited animals for X* and I've seen lists that use electrocuted, I also normally use quarrelsome animals for Q*. I can verify it can be difficult to distinguish sometimes, especially after several attempts in a session (potential confusion with previous memos) and I see it as a potential weakness for mbld too. OTOH, it filled-in two entire columns of the image list instantly.


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## openseas (Feb 18, 2018)

newtonbase said:


> 3BLD round 1. 1:52 PB then 1:48. Solve 3 i decided to go for my first average. Sat down, relaxed, focused on orientation then lifted the cover without starting the timer.



Congrats! @newtonbase !!!

Another PB @ final!


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## openseas (Feb 18, 2018)

openseas said:


> Congrats! @newtonbase !!!
> 
> Another PB @ final!



@newtonbase / Honestly, I wrote this comment before checking your final results. Congrats!!!
(also official sub me


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## SpartanSailor (Feb 18, 2018)

newtonbase said:


> 3BLD round 1. 1:52 PB then 1:48. Solve 3 i decided to go for my first average. Sat down, relaxed, focused on orientation then lifted the cover without starting the timer.


Nicely done!


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## SpartanSailor (Feb 18, 2018)

@Selkie @pglewis im pretty comfortable using front and rear slots. When possible, I try to fill rear slots first to improve my look ahead by reducing the number of locations I need to keep in my head... I think I am on the edge of a breakthrough. I just really feel like I’m seeing more 21s and 20s than ever before. Not to mention 19s—although those are still rare, they seem less rare than once before.


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## newtonbase (Feb 18, 2018)

Thanks all. Very happy with the results.

First thing I did was check your PB @openseas I was pleased to sneak past you for the moment which I hope you take as a compliment

That solve got me 11th place. Last year I was 66s slower and got 6th. UK BLD is improving fast. NR set at 26s today.


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## mark49152 (Feb 18, 2018)

How was that first scramble Mark? Looked like there were several fast times with it.


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## newtonbase (Feb 18, 2018)

mark49152 said:


> How was that first scramble Mark? Looked like there were several fast times with it.


10/8 apparently. I thought it was good but not exceptional. My time surprised me.


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## openseas (Feb 18, 2018)

newtonbase said:


> First thing I did was check your PB @openseas I was pleased to sneak past you for the moment which I hope you take as a compliment



Haha, you deserve the win! I'll be slow for a while - still having trouble with Orozco optimization. Way slower than OP but will continue until to transit to 3 style completely.

I have two big BLD + MBLD comps in March, hopefully I can make success and PBs!



newtonbase said:


> 10/8 apparently. I thought it was good but not exceptional. My time surprised me.



That's really nice! That's a WR-ish scramble.


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## Logiqx (Feb 18, 2018)

Selkie said:


> @Logiqx - The progress you have made since you have been practicing 3x3 again is awesome. Those fullstep 10.x, the sub 15 ao12 on film. I'll quote a a conversation with Feliks referring to us old two farts  .. "...I think if we combined both of your best attributes, you'd be sub 12 easily...". Personally I think you have the best chance of topping the over 40's overall. I am in awe of your smooth turning and finger control. Your TPS has improved in your latest videos too. I completely approve of the cubing music but I have one huge criticism which needs working on. Buddy, your wine rack is empty!!  Love the idea of the oldies PB sheet. Like @Mike Hughey , there are some that I do not remember but anything that motivates us is an awesome plus for me and if there was a facility to enter an approximation and note it so maybe would suffice? Also the ability a link to a video if it was caught on film would be great.



Regarding the wine rack, it's not actually my kitchen... it's an airbnb that I stay in during the working week.

I'll do something about the PB sheet some time next week.


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## newtonbase (Feb 18, 2018)

Here's my PB from today. The best bit is the judge's reaction to the NR from 1:10.





For comic relief. Solve 3 of round 1


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## openseas (Feb 19, 2018)

newtonbase said:


> Here's my PB from today. The best bit is the judge's reaction to the NR from 1:10.



@newtonbase Wow, your memo was ~30s. You could have made sub 90s if you didn't have that long pause. 
What's your normal break down for memo / edge / corner?


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## newtonbase (Feb 19, 2018)

openseas said:


> @newtonbase Wow, your memo was ~30s. You could have made sub 90s if you didn't have that long pause.
> What's your normal break down for memo / edge / corner?


I have no idea I'm afraid. I always forget to hit the button to time splits so I gave up trying.
This is the 2nd consecutive competition where I have come dead last in skewb. I have competed 5 times in the event and beaten 6 people in total from 372 (not unique competitors).


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## Jason Green (Feb 19, 2018)

Logiqx said:


> Regarding the wine rack, it's not actually my kitchen... it's an airbnb that I stay in during the working week.
> 
> I'll do something about the PB sheet some time next week.


I'm thinking of all these things you could have columns for on the sheet, maybe it's easier just to have a generic notes column. Things like if you used stackmat, scramble, reconstruction, video link, etc.



newtonbase said:


> I have no idea I'm afraid. I always forget to hit the button to time splits so I gave up trying.
> This is the 2nd consecutive competition where I have come dead last in skewb. I have competed 5 times in the event and beaten 6 people in total from 372 (not unique competitors).


I've pretty much decided not to do skewb and pyraminx for the foreseeable future. If I do it in comp, I at least want to do some refresh so I remember the algs I should know, and that's taking focus from things I care about even if it's not much practice time. I'm on the fence with 2x2. I'll probably refresh and do it next time it comes up. My son had mine today and kept asking me to solve it again, and I was really getting some of the PBLs mixed up.

Awesome job @newtonbase! That's inspiring stuff!


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## h2f (Feb 19, 2018)

Congrats Mark, @newtonbase.

I was taking a part only in 2nd day of the competition. My results look poor: http://cubecomps.com/live.php?cid=2913&compid=46 , becuasue it looks like I did only 1 good solve.  I'm still learning. In last 3 weeks I did only few solves in big bld due to flew. All solves in 4bld had good memo. In a second I was so close - I skipped one 3cycle - remembered it but I didnt do it.


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## newtonbase (Feb 19, 2018)

Jason Green said:


> I've pretty much decided not to do skewb and pyraminx for the foreseeable future.


I have to relearn skewb every competition as I never do it at home. You could always learn the basics and then only compete if your PB streak is at risk.


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## mark49152 (Feb 19, 2018)

Nice job Mark. Shame about the cover incident. Do you practise with mat and cover at home? After my blindfold incident at Worlds I decided to do so before each comp to get in the habit, and these days I do all my 3BLD with mat and cover because it feels wrong not to.

Bad luck about the results Grzegorz but I hope you had fun anyway. 31 is pretty impressive in FMC though!


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## Shaky Hands (Feb 19, 2018)

Jason Green said:


> I've pretty much decided not to do skewb and pyraminx for the foreseeable future. If I do it in comp, I at least want to do some refresh so I remember the algs I should know, and that's taking focus from things I care about even if it's not much practice time. I'm on the fence with 2x2. I'll probably refresh and do it next time it comes up. My son had mine today and kept asking me to solve it again, and I was really getting some of the PBLs mixed up.



I'm also finished with 2x2, Skewb and Pyraminx for the foreseeable future. If I'm going to put the time into practicing an event, it may as well be an event that I enjoy. Also, I have official averages in all 3 of these already.



h2f said:


> Congrats Mark, @newtonbase.
> 
> I was taking a part only in 2nd day of the competition. My results look poor: http://cubecomps.com/live.php?cid=2913&compid=46 , becuasue it looks like I did only 1 good solve.  I'm still learning.



That's a really good FMC single. Well done.


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## newtonbase (Feb 19, 2018)

mark49152 said:


> Nice job Mark. Shame about the cover incident. Do you practise with mat and cover at home? After my blindfold incident at Worlds I decided to do so before each comp to get in the habit, and these days I do all my 3BLD with mat and cover because it feels wrong not to.
> 
> Shame about the results Grzegorz but I hope you had fun anyway. 31 is pretty impressive in FMC though!


No. I only really practice at work so I don't even use a blindfold. This incident should leave sufficient scars for me to remember in future.
A 2:30 would have got me top 20 for average in the UK.


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## h2f (Feb 19, 2018)

mark49152 said:


> 31 is pretty impressive in FMC though!





Shaky Hands said:


> That's a really good FMC single. Well done.


Oh yeah. I've found a skeleton in 10 minutes and it was the same skeleton as the winner had. We were sitting in a opposite corners of the room. Though he had better insertions. Sadly I was mistaken in 2nd solve which was a nightmare scramble.


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## newtonbase (Feb 19, 2018)

12:47 4BLD PB. I need this PB sheet!


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## Logiqx (Feb 19, 2018)

Oldie rankings updated:

https://github.com/Logiqx/wca-ipy


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## Logiqx (Feb 19, 2018)

Ok. I've had a stab at creating the PB sheet and populated it with some data from my phone:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1XEEV3LObw7cHNW6S_AZdHJWqKLQFoXRW0wwnDneags4/edit?usp=sharing

Use the "filter view" drop-down to choose an event (i.e. arrow next to the the funnel icon).

Send me a PM including your e-mail address if you want to be able to edit the sheet (i.e. add your PBs).


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## newtonbase (Feb 19, 2018)

Thanks for the sheet and the update @Logiqx


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## openseas (Feb 19, 2018)

Logiqx said:


> Send me a PM including your e-mail address if you want to be able to edit the sheet (i.e. add your PBs).



@Logiqx It's nice! Thanks!
Please keep me in - [email protected]


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## Logiqx (Feb 19, 2018)

openseas said:


> @Logiqx It's nice! Thanks!
> Please keep me in - [email protected]



You can now edit. 

Edit: I've added my times. Looking forward to seeing some more added!


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## kbrune (Feb 19, 2018)

Congrats on your BLD results @newtonbase. Impressive!

I will finally be attending a comp with BLD and Multi in March. I've been finding it difficult to find the motivation to practice BLD. It's so time consuming! 

My 3BLD is somewhere around 2:30. Any advice on the road your Memo skills have taken? I've just been trying to speed up memo but so far still at the same plateau. I'm looking forward to a breakthrough!


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## Jason Green (Feb 19, 2018)

Logiqx said:


> Ok. I've had a stab at creating the PB sheet and populated it with some data from my phone:
> 
> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1XEEV3LObw7cHNW6S_AZdHJWqKLQFoXRW0wwnDneags4/edit?usp=sharing
> 
> ...


I'm not real sure how to PM on mobile, but please add me too @Logiqx, [email protected]. Thanks!


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## Logiqx (Feb 19, 2018)

Jason Green said:


> I'm not real sure how to PM on mobile, but please add me too @Logiqx, [email protected]. Thanks!



Done!

A few quick notes to everyone regarding usage:

- I've ordered all of the results by time, completely ignoring the event name
- This ensures that the filter views order everyone's times correctly
- It's also moderately interesting to see how different events relate time-wise
- Any times in minutes need to be padded to MM:SS.DD - e.g. 01:30.00

I've added a link in my signature:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1XEEV3LObw7cHNW6S_AZdHJWqKLQFoXRW0wwnDneags4/edit?usp=sharing


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## pglewis (Feb 19, 2018)

Logiqx said:


> - It's also moderately interesting to see how different events relate time-wise



Kinda of amazing how close ALL my 3x3 times are to your OH


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## Logiqx (Feb 19, 2018)

pglewis said:


> Kinda of amazing how close ALL my 3x3 times are to your OH



Good spot. The relationship between our times is quite interesting!


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## pglewis (Feb 19, 2018)

Also @Logiqx, might this be a good opportunity to start a 30-40 class? Might be more of those folks lurking here than the over 40s.


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## newtonbase (Feb 19, 2018)

kbrune said:


> Congrats on your BLD results @newtonbase. Impressive!
> 
> I will finally be attending a comp with BLD and Multi in March. I've been finding it difficult to find the motivation to practice BLD. It's so time consuming!
> 
> My 3BLD is somewhere around 2:30. Any advice on the road your Memo skills have taken? I've just been trying to speed up memo but so far still at the same plateau. I'm looking forward to a breakthrough!


The one thing that got the best results for me was to really go for fast memo. Cut down on your reviews. If you know your average memo time then force yourself to do it in 4/5ths of the time. You'll DNF a lot more to start with but just accept that. When you get close to hitting that target then cut it again. 
With my audio edges i didn't start execution until I'd done a clean review but that's a waste of time Now I solve during that review.
Knowing your letter pairs helps massively too. Unfortunately I've not put enough time into this yet.


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## Selkie (Feb 20, 2018)

@newtonbase - Congratulations on no less than three BLD comp PBs. Unlucky on the timer issue but that is still awesome mate.

@h2f - Indeed nice FMC result sir

@Shaky Hands - A very impressive haul of comp PBs buddy and your megaminx is getting awesome.

@Logiqx - Well the oldies PB sheet is already having an effect. I realised I did not have a good 5x5 average on film so decided to put that right. Really pleased with this average which is not only a PB by 4 seconds but also "Sub Ron in comp". If you pause the video at the very start you will see I am in the PB sheet 

5x5 Average of 5: 1:44.26
1:42.56, (2:07.85), 1:42.37,1:47.86, (1:38.23)


Spoiler



1. 1:42.56 f2 b2 L2 d D2 U l R L B2 f U f' d2 b2 l2 D' B2 f2 F' d' U' f2 r' l2 u' B2 d2 u2 D2 U r R2 F2 u2 R2 f2 d' U B' d D' F' L' f U2 b u2 r2 l' F d' b2 l D' R' F r2 F B2 
2. (2:07.85) R2 L' d b u2 d' b2 R2 F U' l' R U' b' R2 L' f' r2 u' F2 U' u' L' U R B2 r b2 f B' u2 r2 B' r' D' R2 U r2 L2 f2 U B2 f u2 L r' b u' F' B2 b2 R' F' f2 R' B' f' d' b U2 
3. 1:42.37 l2 r' B2 d2 F' f2 b2 l f2 D d2 r u2 U r D b2 f B' u' D2 d' l2 L' d B l2 d2 F r2 D2 R2 U' D2 L d l' D' F' d2 B' b2 R2 f u2 F' f D' F U d b l2 B' b U l' L' b l2 
4. 1:47.86 R' f B' b F' r' u' d2 D L2 R l D L' d2 F' r D l' U' d' f r2 B U2 f' u2 f2 R' f B' F d b u L' D2 U l2 u' l' b2 F d2 b F' U b2 r d' R' r2 D' l' u2 F2 l' r2 F2 L2 
5. (1:38.23) L' r2 f2 R' U' u2 r2 d' f' R U2 l2 F2 L2 r2 B D2 f r F b' B' f2 r' F2 R D' L2 u U' f B F l f r R' b2 U' b F2 u f2 R F2 R F R2 r2 b2 F2 f r2 l b2 L' D2 r' l' f


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## kbrune (Feb 20, 2018)

@Logiqx 

How do I view the stats on that PB page? when I click on the link all I see is a list of names. 

The 30-40 class would be fun too. Im still a year and a half away from induction into the 40s club.


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## kbrune (Feb 20, 2018)

Selkie said:


> @newtonbase - Congratulations on no less than three BLD comp PBs. Unlucky on the timer issue but that is still awesome mate.




What's you video making process like? Ive been wanting to create some sort of montage of PB's on video. But I have no idea where to start. Do you record straight to your laptop?


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## SpartanSailor (Feb 20, 2018)

newtonbase said:


> Here's my PB from today. The best bit is the judge's reaction to the NR from 1:10.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That judges reaction was the best! ha!


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## SpartanSailor (Feb 20, 2018)

Logiqx said:


> Ok. I've had a stab at creating the PB sheet and populated it with some data from my phone:
> 
> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1XEEV3LObw7cHNW6S_AZdHJWqKLQFoXRW0wwnDneags4/edit?usp=sharing
> 
> ...


I messaged you... I'd like to be added if you don't mind.


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## SpartanSailor (Feb 20, 2018)

I'm not on the same level as most of you guys, but I'll be adding my unofficial PBs to the list soon...


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## Logiqx (Feb 20, 2018)

kbrune said:


> @Logiqx
> 
> How do I view the stats on that PB page? when I click on the link all I see is a list of names.
> 
> The 30-40 class would be fun too. Im still a year and a half away from induction into the 40s club.



There are several tabs in the sheet - Single, MBLD, Ao5, Ao12, Ao50, Ao100


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## kbrune (Feb 20, 2018)

Logiqx said:


> There are several tabs in the sheet - Single, MBLD, Ao5, Ao12, Ao50, Ao100



I was looking at the top for way too long! lol
Finally realized the tabs are at the bottom


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## kbrune (Feb 20, 2018)

newtonbase said:


> The one thing that got the best results for me was to really go for fast memo. Cut down on your reviews. If you know your average memo time then force yourself to do it in 4/5ths of the time. You'll DNF a lot more to start with but just accept that. When you get close to hitting that target then cut it again.
> With my audio edges i didn't start execution until I'd done a clean review but that's a waste of time Now I solve during that review.
> Knowing your letter pairs helps massively too. Unfortunately I've not put enough time into this yet.



The other problem I seem to have is knowing if I have all the pieces covered. I can't seem to memo fast and keep track efficiently of if I have all 11 targets accounted for. When I try to keep track of the math my memo suffers. Same goes the other way around. Did this just become easier from brute force practice for you?


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## Logiqx (Feb 20, 2018)

Selkie said:


> @Logiqx - Well the oldies PB sheet is already having an effect. I realised I did not have a good 5x5 average on film so decided to put that right. Really pleased with this average which is not only a PB by 4 seconds but also "Sub Ron in comp". If you pause the video at the very start you will see I am in the PB sheet



Strewth Chris... I need to up my game having seen your home PBs!

The Google Sheet is getting better and better with all of the recent additions. Hopefully we'll get even more people contributing over the next few days. 

Top tip for editors: After adding / updating your time(s) you can drag + drop the new / changed row to wherever it belongs.

Link - Older Cubers - Unofficial PBs


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## Selkie (Feb 20, 2018)

@Logiqx - Haha, I suck in comp mate, get far too nervous. Filling in the sheet will be a bit of a work in progress as I try and dig up where I recorded a PB. Sometimes here, sometimes on FB, sometimes on UKCA Discord. Great work though mate, another source for motivation moving forward.


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## SpartanSailor (Feb 20, 2018)

@Selkie same here... I have great warm-up times then when it comes to my actual turn everything just fails me. My nerves get the better of me every time. I only hope that as my home PBs improve, that it'll have a proportional effect on my official times too and those will improve as well.


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## Mike Hughey (Feb 20, 2018)

Well, the PB sheet has already been quite inspiring for me. I went ahead and entered PBs for 4x4x4 for both AvG and Hoya, since I'm hoping to beat my AvG speed with Hoya soon. If I do, I'll remove the AvG entries. And this week for the weekly competition I beat my previous Hoya PBs (single and avg5) by 5 seconds! I'm only a few seconds away from my AvG avg5 PB now!


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## Selkie (Feb 20, 2018)

kbrune said:


> What's you video making process like? Ive been wanting to create some sort of montage of PB's on video. But I have no idea where to start. Do you record straight to your laptop?



I used to use Windows Movie Maker by Microsoft withdrew it when they added editing functionality to Photos in Windows 10 Creators Fall Edition. I played around a bit with some of the free offerings including Lightworks, Shotcut and VSDC. Lightworks was very feature rich but took a lot more learning so I ended up buying Adobe Premier Elements 2018 and to be honest I am extremely happy with it. So easy to edit and title videos and it has "Quick" and "Expert" modes which you can switch between which makes the learning curve very easy but with advanced features when needed.


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## bubbagrub (Feb 20, 2018)

Logiqx said:


> Done!
> 
> A few quick notes to everyone regarding usage:
> 
> ...


Could you add me too, Mike? My email address is [my surname]@gmail.com

Thanks!

Ben


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## Logiqx (Feb 20, 2018)

bubbagrub said:


> Could you add me too, Mike? My email address is [my surname]@gmail.com
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> Ben



Done. You'e as careful as me about email in a public space.


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## openseas (Feb 20, 2018)

Mike Hughey said:


> Well, the PB sheet has already been quite inspiring for me. I went ahead and entered PBs for 4x4x4 for both AvG and Hoya, since I'm hoping to beat my AvG speed with Hoya soon. If I do, I'll remove the AvG entries. And this week for the weekly competition I beat my previous Hoya PBs (single and avg5) by 5 seconds! I'm only a few seconds away from my AvG avg5 PB now!



Agree! Motivation and inspiration, immediately.

Got 4BLD PB, one step closer to Sub-10 (min)

1. 10:56.56 [6:21.47] L2 Fw' R2 Rw U2 Uw R F R' Rw' Uw R Rw' F2 Fw2 B' R' F2 Uw D2 U B' R' Rw' D2 U Fw' U' Fw' L D' L2 Uw' D B' F U' F' Fw L2


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## newtonbase (Feb 20, 2018)

openseas said:


> Agree! Motivation and inspiration, immediately.
> 
> Got 4BLD PB, one step closer to Sub-10 (min)
> 
> 1. 10:56.56 [6:21.47] L2 Fw' R2 Rw U2 Uw R F R' Rw' Uw R Rw' F2 Fw2 B' R' F2 Uw D2 U B' R' Rw' D2 U Fw' U' Fw' L D' L2 Uw' D B' F U' F' Fw L2


Getting close. Well done I have the same target and will practice little else for the next 2 months.


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## Logiqx (Feb 21, 2018)

We're on page 888... my favourite number (see profile pic).

On a more serious note if you feel that the cubing community should take a stance against Rubik's trying to control and monopolise the speed cubing community, consider contributing towards the thecubicle's case. Most of us have more disposable cash than the average cuber!

https://www.gofundme.com/thecubicleus-legal-fund


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## openseas (Feb 21, 2018)

Logiqx said:


> We're on page 888... my favourite number (see profile pic).
> 
> On a more serious note if you feel that the cubing community should take a stance against Rubik's trying to control and monopolise the speed cubing community, consider contributing towards the thecubicle's case. Most of us have more disposable cash than the average cuber!
> 
> https://www.gofundme.com/thecubicleus-legal-fund



Yeap, did on the first day!


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## Mike Hughey (Feb 21, 2018)

I figure the people here could provide some good advice, considering how much some of you here seem to be interested in hardware. I really need to update my cube collection - almost everything I have is several years old and I'm really operating at a handicap because of inferior hardware. Any recommendations on how I should go about upgrading?

I have a long complicated list of needs. First, I have a weird color scheme (Japanese color scheme, but with orange and red swapped), and I have over a decade of BLD practice that means I can't change that color scheme. :-( So I'll need to match that color scheme on anything I get. Second, I really don't want to spend a lot of time setting up cubes, restickering, magnetizing, etc., since I have too little time to cube anyway, and I'm currently spending almost all my free time trying to improve the speedsolving.com website (I probably spend 15 to 20 hours of my free time per week coding on it now). I really can't see myself being willing to spend any time doing my own magnetizing, so if I want magnets, I'd have to buy them already magnetized. I of course will have to get to my color scheme, but I'm pretty good at swapping all the pieces I can, then peeling off the necessary remaining stickers and swapping them to make the correct color scheme, so that doesn't take that long. Third, I'm pretty sensitive to color shades, so I'm a bit nervous at the thought of going stickerless. Plus I don't know what it would be like disassembling and reassembling parts to make my color scheme, and I wonder if maybe some stickerless cubes might not be possible to change to my scheme at all.

Most important are probably new 3x3x3, 4x4x4, and 5x5x5, since they affect me for BLD as much as for speedsolving. I got a fairly new Wushuang 5x5x5 which is not terrible, but I'm not very good at setting up cubes and I'm not sure how to go about making it better. I suspect a new 6x6x6 and new 7x7x7 would help tremendously, perhaps more than anything else I could get, since my current ones are 4-year-old ShengShous.

For non-cubic puzzles, I have a fairly new X-Man Volt square1, so I think I'm set on that, although I need new stickers. My megaminx isn't too terribly old and is far from affecting my times now, so I doubt I need that. I think my pyraminx is fine. I desperately need a new skewb, though.

Then there's the matter of multi. My multi cubes are mostly really bad; when I did the 12/12 last year, a couple of them were actual storebought regular Rubik's cubes from 10 years ago, because they were the best cubes I had. So I need cubes for multi rather badly.

Any suggestions or recommendations would be greatly appreciated.


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## Logiqx (Feb 21, 2018)

@Mike Hughey - If your budget allows, I'd recommended Cubicle labs and you can even specify your own colours / scheme.

https://thecubicle.us/cubicle-labs-c-228.html

I love my Cubicle Labs Valk M (3x3), WuQue M (4x4) and WuShuang M (5x5).

For a Skewb get the X-Man Wingy Magnetic (concave)... you won't regret it!


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## pglewis (Feb 21, 2018)

@Mike Hughey: I think going with stickered and choosing your own shades and color scheme is the way to go. Not only are you at the mercy of whatever shades the stickerless comes with but there's a fair chance it would be another adjustment recognizing on stickerless if you're used to over a decade of black stickered (I'm the opposite, been stickerless so long now that stickered is always weird at first). 

I'm still trying to come up with an ideal platform for mbld, myself. I prefer a much slower puzzle for blind right now and of course cost becomes an issue at volume (I'm not quite prepared to fork out for 10+ GTS2Ms/Valk 3Ms). I picked up the "Cubers Home" magnetic Yuxin Little Magic as one candidate because it's the best <$5 base puzzle I've tried and I love the pure speed for regular 3x3 but I think I want something more tame for blind; I suppose I could experiment slowing it down via lube. Another very good budget cube, the MF3RS2 is more stable than the Yuxin and I'll wager it makes a fantastic magnetic cube... but it also tends to run nearly double the base price of the Yuxin. 

@newtonbase used to have a fleet of Thunderclaps for mbld (probably still a perfectly reliable platform for mbld) but I know he recent picked up a bunch of Little Magics.


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## One Wheel (Feb 21, 2018)

Mike Hughey said:


> I figure the people here could provide some good advice, considering how much some of you here seem to be interested in hardware. I really need to update my cube collection - almost everything I have is several years old and I'm really operating at a handicap because of inferior hardware. Any recommendations on how I should go about upgrading?
> 
> I have a long complicated list of needs. First, I have a weird color scheme (Japanese color scheme, but with orange and red swapped), and I have over a decade of BLD practice that means I can't change that color scheme. :-( So I'll need to match that color scheme on anything I get. Second, I really don't want to spend a lot of time setting up cubes, restickering, magnetizing, etc., since I have too little time to cube anyway, and I'm currently spending almost all my free time trying to improve the speedsolving.com website (I probably spend 15 to 20 hours of my free time per week coding on it now). I really can't see myself being willing to spend any time doing my own magnetizing, so if I want magnets, I'd have to buy them already magnetized. I of course will have to get to my color scheme, but I'm pretty good at swapping all the pieces I can, then peeling off the necessary remaining stickers and swapping them to make the correct color scheme, so that doesn't take that long. Third, I'm pretty sensitive to color shades, so I'm a bit nervous at the thought of going stickerless. Plus I don't know what it would be like disassembling and reassembling parts to make my color scheme, and I wonder if maybe some stickerless cubes might not be possible to change to my scheme at all.
> 
> ...


I second the cubicle labs suggestion, although I'll admit I haven't done business with cubicle labs, only thecubicle. They'll probably be able to get you whatever you want. I personally thought I really liked black stickered puzzles, but then I got a black Wuji and magnetized it. The turning was fantastic, but the stickers kept catching under my fingernails. Qiyi stock stickers are junk, in my opinion. Especially for big cube centers I find stickerless recognition vastly better, that may be flipped for blind, though.

I've tried a few 6x6s, currently using a CB G6 M, hoping to upgrade to a Wuhua v2 M soon, but I haven't bit the bullet to buy it yet.

7x7 I've used the Aofu, Yufu, SS (just a little), and Wuji. Iirc the SS was miles behind any of them, the Aofu and Yufu were comparable, and the Wuji is by far the best.

I've used a SS, Weichuang, Wushuang, and Yuxin for 5x5. My times immediately dropped at least 30 seconds going from the SS to the Weichuang, the Wushuang is better than the Weichuang, and IMO the Yuxin 5x5 M the way I have it set up is one of the nicest feeling puzzles I've ever handled. 6x1 n48 inside, 5x1 n52 outside, some cubicle weight 1 in the core, and silk on the pieces. Moderately tight tensions.


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## openseas (Feb 21, 2018)

@Mike Hughey / As folks mentioned above, for all NxN cubes, both Cubicle or SCS customized products (cubicle laps or pro shop)are fairly good and they can even handle your color scheme. If you have concerns ordering all these customized (also magnetized) cubes at the same time (several hundreds dollars), factory magnetized versions are also good enough (people say magnets are a little bit weak but weaker magnets are better for BLD). 

3x3: V3 M > GTS2 M - I went back and forth between GTS2 M vs V3 M (all DIY magnetized) but these days V3 M is my main. 
4x4: Wuque M > Aosu GTS M 
5x5: Wushuang M ~ Yuxin M 
6x6 & 7x7 : no experience

MBLD: @newtonbase seems like little magics but I haven't tried. MF3Rs (all magnetized) are good but even without magnets, good enough for MLBD (+ very affordable).


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## newtonbase (Feb 21, 2018)

Yes, I do like my home magnetised Little Magics but Thunderclaps are very good. @mark49152 uses them.


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## Mike Hughey (Feb 21, 2018)

Thanks to everyone for the advice - I really appreciate it! I have a birthday coming up so I'm going to ask for some of these from my wife for my birthday. 



Logiqx said:


> @Mike Hughey
> For a Skewb get the X-Man Wingy Magnetic (concave)... you won't regret it!


Is it competition legal (is the shape a problem)? I can imagine it would be a mind-boggling improvement over what I have now.


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## Logiqx (Feb 21, 2018)

Mike Hughey said:


> Is it competition legal (is the shape a problem)? I can imagine it would be a mind-boggling improvement over what I have now.



Yes and to the best of my knowledge it's the favouite of the top Skewb solvers. It's much easier to control than a cubic version.


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## SpartanSailor (Feb 21, 2018)

Late to the party here... I agree with others that custom ordering from Cubicle or Speedcube shops is a good idea. Let them do all the setup and work and they will make the color shades and scheme however you want.

I also recommend the x-man wingy skewb... that bad boy is the best skewb on the market if you ask me. They are EVERYWHERE at our local comps. When they call for skewb, the scrambling table is littered with them. I have a stickerless that I use for competition and a black with standard stickers. I don't think there's really much difference. I prefer the stickerless, but that's just a personal thing. Definitely competition legal too. 

I think others mentioned the magnetized 4x4... I have both the Wuque M and Aosu GTS M and agree that the Wuque is far better. 

I don't have any magnetized larger cubes since I don't really solve those very often and can't justify the expense just to have a "cool" magnetized 6x6 to sit on my shelf. That said, if I decide to get into 6x6 the first thing I'll do is invest in a nice magnetized one.


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## Mike Hughey (Feb 21, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> I don't have any magnetized larger cubes since I don't really solve those very often and can't justify the expense just to have a "cool" magnetized 6x6 to sit on my shelf. That said, if I decide to get into 6x6 the first thing I'll do is invest in a nice magnetized one.


The prices on those magnetized 6x6x6 and 7x7x7 are a bit daunting. But I spend a lot of time each week on 6x6x6 and 7x7x7, relatively speaking, so I'm pretty tempted to splurge on them. We'll see. I'll definitely have to go with magnetic 3-5, though.

And I'm looking forward to seeing what the wingy skewb is like; I really think that will be a huge difference. My current skewb is so bad that I'm quite sure a new skewb will cut my times by much more than half. And skewb is sufficiently different that I think I might try stickerless for it. The only problem I could see for the colors on it would be if I did it BLD, and it's been a while since I did skewb BLD.

For multi I'm probably going to stick to pretty cheap cubes. Even trying for 16-20 cubes, I can't help believing speed is just not that much of a factor, and anything I get now will be a DRASTIC improvement over what I've been using. I won't get them custom-stickered because of the cost, but there are only 4 to 6 stickers that need to be swapped to get to my color scheme on a 3x3x3, so that's not too much work. (I need to swap white and green faces to get from standard color scheme to mine. If I can swap center caps and twist a piece, there are only 4 corner stickers that need swapping.)


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## newtonbase (Feb 21, 2018)

Mike Hughey said:


> The prices on those magnetized 6x6x6 and 7x7x7 are a bit daunting. But I spend a lot of time each week on 6x6x6 and 7x7x7, relatively speaking, so I'm pretty tempted to splurge on them. We'll see. I'll definitely have to go with magnetic 3-5, though.
> 
> And I'm looking forward to seeing what the wingy skewb is like; I really think that will be a huge difference. My current skewb is so bad that I'm quite sure a new skewb will cut my times by much more than half. And skewb is sufficiently different that I think I might try stickerless for it. The only problem I could see for the colors on it would be if I did it BLD, and it's been a while since I did skewb BLD.
> 
> For multi I'm probably going to stick to pretty cheap cubes. Even trying for 16-20 cubes, I can't help believing speed is just not that much of a factor, and anything I get now will be a DRASTIC improvement over what I've been using. I won't get them custom-stickered because of the cost, but there are only 4 to 6 stickers that need to be swapped to get to my color scheme on a 3x3x3, so that's not too much work. (I need to swap white and green faces to get from standard color scheme to mine. If I can swap center caps and twist a piece, there are only 4 corner stickers that need swapping.)


Thunderclap corners are very easy to take apart and reorder. Little Magics are less easy but possible. Those funny shaped skewbs are everywhere. I'd get one if I cared.


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## Jason Green (Feb 22, 2018)

Logiqx said:


> We're on page 888... my favourite number (see profile pic).
> 
> On a more serious note if you feel that the cubing community should take a stance against Rubik's trying to control and monopolise the speed cubing community, consider contributing towards the thecubicle's case. Most of us have more disposable cash than the average cuber!
> 
> https://www.gofundme.com/thecubicleus-legal-fund


The Cubicle, Chris Olson, and JR Cuber all put out good videos recently talking about the lawsuit. I donated right away also.

@Mike Hughey, I think you're covered on good advice already, mine would be the same as others!


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## pglewis (Feb 22, 2018)

Hot and cold session with 3x3. Working on lookahead and incorporating a few new F2L solutions and finding myself making lots of mistakes, clobbering solved pairs, solving edges flipped. Finally hit a milestone I've been looking forward to for a while though: two sub 20s in the same day, both in the 19s. Both were full step last layer but one of 'em had a magic unplanned F2L pair so I only had to solve three. I'm seeing a lot more 20s and 21s. Of course, I'm seeing a lot more 36s and 40s too


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## SpartanSailor (Feb 22, 2018)

pglewis said:


> Hot and cold session with 3x3. Working on lookahead and incorporating a few new F2L solutions and finding myself making lots of mistakes, clobbering solved pairs, solving edges flipped. Finally hit a milestone I've been looking forward to for a while though: two sub 20s in the same day, both in the 19s. Both were full step last layer but one of 'em had a magic unplanned F2L pair so I only had to solve three. I'm seeing a lot more 20s and 21s. Of course, I'm seeing a lot more 36s and 40s too


Sounds like you and I are about the same point... both in solve time and progress. I definitely see more 20s and 21s now than ever before, but when things go wrong they go REALLY wrong! I don't know the standard deviation of my solves, but I'd bet its relatively large--meaning large variability about the mean. I'd take just a nice tight grouping (low variability) that is at or slightly better than my official average. I'd probably celebrate like I set the WR if I saw a 19 in competition! HAHAHAHA


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## openseas (Feb 23, 2018)

Oh, so close... off by one center pair...

4BLD
1. DNF(10:09.47)[5:36.53] Uw Fw' F2 Uw2 Rw' F D2 R D2 B Uw2 U D2 F2 Fw B' Uw R F' Fw2 U B' L' F2 D2 Rw L' U R2 U' D F Uw2 F B L' Uw2 R2 B' Rw'


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## openseas (Feb 23, 2018)

openseas said:


> Oh, so close... off by one center pair...
> 
> 4BLD
> 1. DNF(10:09.47)[5:36.53] Uw Fw' F2 Uw2 Rw' F D2 R D2 B Uw2 U D2 F2 Fw B' Uw R F' Fw2 U B' L' F2 D2 Rw L' U R2 U' D F Uw2 F B L' Uw2 R2 B' Rw'View attachment 8901



Actually, made up right after this DNF! First sub 10!

1. 9:58.93 [4:41.24] L' Rw' U Fw' U2 Rw' U F' B Uw2 Rw L' R Uw' D F2 Fw' R B' R' Uw R' D' F' D2 Fw2 B D R U L R' Fw Uw' F2 D U R2 L' D


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## SpartanSailor (Feb 23, 2018)

openseas said:


> Oh, so close... off by one center pair...
> 
> 4BLD
> 1. DNF(10:09.47)[5:36.53] Uw Fw' F2 Uw2 Rw' F D2 R D2 B Uw2 U D2 F2 Fw B' Uw R F' Fw2 U B' L' F2 D2 Rw L' U R2 U' D F Uw2 F B L' Uw2 R2 B' Rw'View attachment 8901



I’m impressed.


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## SpartanSailor (Feb 23, 2018)

openseas said:


> View attachment 8902
> 
> Actually, made up right after the this! First sub 10!
> 
> 1. 9:58.93 [4:41.24] L' Rw' U Fw' U2 Rw' U F' B Uw2 Rw L' R Uw' D F2 Fw' R B' R' Uw R' D' F' D2 Fw2 B D R U L R' Fw Uw' F2 D U R2 L' D


Ok... now I’m REALLY impressed!! That’s fantastic. Nicely done.


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## newtonbase (Feb 23, 2018)

openseas said:


> View attachment 8902
> 
> Actually, made up right after the this! First sub 10!
> 
> 1. 9:58.93 [4:41.24] L' Rw' U Fw' U2 Rw' U F' B Uw2 Rw L' R Uw' D F2 Fw' R B' R' Uw R' D' F' D2 Fw2 B D R U L R' Fw Uw' F2 D U R2 L' D


Fantastic achievement. Well done.
Had a 10:38 DNF today which is my fastest.


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## mark49152 (Feb 23, 2018)

Nice job @openseas!


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## newtonbase (Feb 23, 2018)

Just tried the 3rd scramble from round 1 at the weekend. That's the one that cost me a mean as I didn't start the timer. 1:48 DNF as missed one of the flipped edges in memo.


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## Logiqx (Feb 23, 2018)

openseas said:


> Actually, made up right after this DNF! First sub 10!
> 
> 1. 9:58.93 [4:41.24] L' Rw' U Fw' U2 Rw' U F' B Uw2 Rw L' R Uw' D F2 Fw' R B' R' Uw R' D' F' D2 Fw2 B D R U L R' Fw Uw' F2 D U R2 L' D



Congrats. I saw that when I went to the PB spreadsheet and looked at the version history.


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## openseas (Feb 23, 2018)

@Logiqx , @mark49152 , @SpartanSailor , @newtonbase / Thanks!



newtonbase said:


> Just tried the 3rd scramble from round 1 at the weekend. That's the one that cost me a mean as I didn't start the timer. 1:48 DNF as missed one of the flipped edges in memo.



Sounds like your sub-conscious was working to make you feel better


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## SpartanSailor (Feb 23, 2018)

another 0/3 attempts on 3BLD last night. I feel like I'm getting the memo right, but kept having 1 pair or cycle off. I'm doing untimed solves just to remove that additional pressure, but still no luck last night. 

Any advice about how else to practice other than just doing it? I could go back to only corners or only edges to practice, I suppose.


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## JanW (Feb 23, 2018)

Everyone here is making so much progress, both in old events and in learning new! Congrats all!

I'd need to practice more. Just finished the first 1000 timed solves of 2018. Ao1000 19.10 and more sub-18s than sup-20s, which I'm quite happy with! 


SpartanSailor said:


> Any advice about how else to practice other than just doing it? I could go back to only corners or only edges to practice, I suppose.


If you only want to practice execution, you could try my bldtrainer (link in sig).


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## SpartanSailor (Feb 23, 2018)

1000 solves already? No wonder y'all are so much faster than I am! I think I've done a few hundred... but certainly not 1000 timed 3x3 solves in 2018 already. I better get to work!

Thanks for the bld trainer link. I'll check it out.


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## newtonbase (Feb 23, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> another 0/3 attempts on 3BLD last night. I feel like I'm getting the memo right, but kept having 1 pair or cycle off. I'm doing untimed solves just to remove that additional pressure, but still no luck last night.
> 
> Any advice about how else to practice other than just doing it? I could go back to only corners or only edges to practice, I suppose.


Do you know if it's your memo, tracing or recall letting you down? You could try jotting down the memo before execution then checking it against the scramble afterwards.


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## mitja (Feb 23, 2018)

openseas said:


> View attachment 8902
> 
> Actually, made up right after this DNF! First sub 10!
> 
> 1. 9:58.93 [4:41.24] L' Rw' U Fw' U2 Rw' U F' B Uw2 Rw L' R Uw' D F2 Fw' R B' R' Uw R' D' F' D2 Fw2 B D R U L R' Fw Uw' F2 D U R2 L' D


Thats really impressive. I wish i had so much time like you guys. My work just doesn't permit me. I am too much of a workaholick.
I am still trying to rehearse my execution for 4BLD, so I am lying sick in Italian ski resort and having some peace while my girls are skiing.
My execution is getting better the best ones are 3:30-4:30. It is sighted execution, but i just search a pair and execute with eyes closed and thats for all, centres, wings and OP corners. Slowly I am getting confidence to my second try for 4BLD solve. Just want to get better, I know that execution will be much slower ones I do BLD with all retracing.


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## SpartanSailor (Feb 23, 2018)

newtonbase said:


> Do you know if it's your memo, tracing or recall letting you down? You could try jotting down the memo before execution then checking it against the scramble afterwards.


I’m not totally sure. I think it’s tracing or misidentifying the piece. I feel like I execute my memo accurately, so I’m thinking the problem is getting the memo correct.


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## Logiqx (Feb 23, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> 1000 solves already? No wonder y'all are so much faster than I am! I think I've done a few hundred... but certainly not 1000 timed 3x3 solves in 2018 already. I better get to work!
> 
> Thanks for the bld trainer link. I'll check it out.



I've done 1825 timed 3x3 solves this year (i.e. averaging 34 solves per day).

Looking at my rolling average of 1000, I'm around 0.7 seconds quicker than I was on 1st January.


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## newtonbase (Feb 23, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> I’m not totally sure. I think it’s tracing or misidentifying the piece. I feel like I execute my memo accurately, so I’m thinking the problem is getting the memo correct.


If that's the case then my suggestion should help. Try the scramble again against your written memo and see what happens. It works better using a different cube so you can see the one that went wrong and compare errors.


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## mark49152 (Feb 23, 2018)

Off topic, but has anyone seen this act of breathtaking superhumanity? Makes MBLD look silly.


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## SpartanSailor (Feb 23, 2018)

mark49152 said:


> Off topic, but has anyone seen this act of breathtaking superhumanity? Makes MBLD look silly.


That is beyond remarkable... my head hurts just imagining it.


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## SpartanSailor (Feb 23, 2018)

Logiqx said:


> I've done 1825 timed 3x3 solves this year (i.e. averaging 34 solves per day).
> 
> Looking at my rolling average of 1000, I'm around 0.7 seconds quicker than I was on 1st January.


Wow. I just hit 200 timed solves in my current session. I hope to hit 1000 before my comp at the end of March. I will need to average 23 solves a day to get the next 800 (just did the math) and already planned to do at least 25 a day. My average for that 200, however, is slightly improved over my previous session leading up to my previous comp. Again... I'll take consistency and slow/steady progress at this point.

I do, however, do MANY (possibly as many as 100) untimed solves during the day too. I don't go "slow" per se, but I do sometimes go slower to specifically work on look ahead or a particular finger-trick or something else specific. I think those are actually helping too.


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## openseas (Feb 23, 2018)

mitja said:


> My execution is getting better the best ones are 3:30-4:30. It is sighted execution, but i just search a pair and execute with eyes closed and thats for all, centres, wings and OP corners. Slowly I am getting confidence to my second try for 4BLD solve. Just want to get better, I know that execution will be much slower ones I do BLD with all retracing



Thanks. I'm a firm believer of targeted pratice. In BLD, actually, sighted executions are not necessarily faster than blindfolded exec. Your execution times look good.


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## SpartanSailor (Feb 23, 2018)

openseas said:


> Thanks. I'm a firm believer of targeted pratice. In BLD, actually, sighted executions are not necessarily faster than blindfolded exec. Your execution times look good.


Do you think it is a helpful tactic to do the memo and tracing then solve the cube sighted using your same memo? I am wondering if this may be a good way for me to do some practice... that way I can identify immediately if I memo'd something incorrectly. Thoughts?


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## muchacho (Feb 23, 2018)

Offtopic, anyone play chess? If any would like to play with me (I'm 1650 points in 10+0 at lichess.org) please send me a PM. It doesn't have to be blindfolded chess, but I would accept the challenge 

_1900 timed 3x3 solves so far this year, not sure if I've improved though._


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## pglewis (Feb 23, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> I do, however, do MANY (possibly as many as 100) untimed solves during the day too. I don't go "slow" per se, but I do sometimes go slower to specifically work on look ahead or a particular finger-trick or something else specific. I think those are actually helping too.



I'm the same way, I still don't track long-term sessions because it'll just tell me what I already know: I'm in constant flux. I attack Ao50 when it feels like my consistency is coming around, seems like once every few weeks right now as OLL improves. Otherwise I just do a lot of untimed solves in a cycle of: learn a few new things, lose consistency, gain it back, repeat. I can feel it if things start clicking and get the timer out in case I land an outlier or hot Ao5. Tracking longer-term averages would probably mean more to me if I eventually manage to approach 15s or better. 



SpartanSailor said:


> Do you think it is a helpful tactic to do the memo and tracing then solve the cube sighted using your same memo? I am wondering if this may be a good way for me to do some practice... that way I can identify immediately if I memo'd something incorrectly. Thoughts?



I've had good luck with sighted blind for a day if I hit a spell of unknown failures. If nothing else it seems to get my confidence back if not point out what had been going wrong. @newtonbase's advice to jot down the memo might be better in the sense that you can at least work out where it went afoul. Maybe even filming if it remains chronic and frustrating. There's so many tiny things that can go wrong.


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## pglewis (Feb 23, 2018)

muchacho said:


> Offtopic, anyone play chess? If any would like to play with me (I'm 1650 points in 10+0 at lichess.org) please send me a PM. It doesn't have to be blindfolded chess, but I would accept the challenge



My poor lookahead is not limited to cubing... I'm awful at chess, though as a programmer and cube-nut I'm _supposed_ to be a decent chess player. I have one strategy: trade pieces early and often to remove my opponent's weapons, which I'll surely miss at some point and do something stupid if I don't get them off the board; hope for a draw.


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## newtonbase (Feb 23, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> Do you think it is a helpful tactic to do the memo and tracing then solve the cube sighted using your same memo? I am wondering if this may be a good way for me to do some practice... that way I can identify immediately if I memo'd something incorrectly. Thoughts?


That does work. It might highlight something you are doing wrongly or where you might have a weakness.


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## newtonbase (Feb 23, 2018)

What people's 4BLD splits? I'm roughly 7 min memo, 5 min execution with very limited success.


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## mark49152 (Feb 23, 2018)

newtonbase said:


> What people's 4BLD splits? I'm roughly 7 min memo, 5 min execution with very limited success.


50/50


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## Logiqx (Feb 23, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> That is beyond remarkable... my head hurts just imagining it.



I believe grand masters can remember the pieces on chess boards easily. This only applies to valid positions and if you randomly place pieces on the board they can' remember them any better than Joe public. I think I read something about it in the book moonwalking with einstein. Still super impressive.

I think a crazy hard thing to do would be blindfold sudoku.


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## newtonbase (Feb 23, 2018)

mark49152 said:


> 50/50


I'm finding I'm cutting memo more quickly than execution so I expect i'll get there eventually.


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## JanW (Feb 23, 2018)

Logiqx said:


> I think a crazy hard thing to do would be blindfold sudoku.


Not necessarily. I was quite into sudoku when they first arrived some 12 years ago. I quickly found the regular newspaper sudokus too easy and mostly solved those all in my head. By that I mean staring at the puzzle until I could write in the correct solution cell by cell starting from top left. Going from there to blind solving would only require a method to first memorize the original grid. It would be an interesting challenge though. Maybe I should try it sometime. 

But how would such an event be done in practice? I'm thinking you are allowed to look at a grid to memorize it, then you would have to put the grid away while you solve it, but then you also have to somehow write down the solution, which can't really be done blindfolded. One possibility would be to fill in an empty grid in order, starting from top left, with correct solution. That way you can't really do any more solving while writing down the solution. However, you can do solving while memorizing the solution, which kind of defeats the whole blindfold purpose...


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## Mike Hughey (Feb 23, 2018)

Wow this thread is active today! I just wanted to chime in on a couple of things:
1. My memo/execution split for all puzzles is around 50/50. For 3BLD it should be shorter for memo, but I'm so bad these days at 3BLD that it's even 50/50 there. I am about 70/30 memorization vs. execution on multiBLD.
2. When I was much younger, I spent a lot of time trying to get good at chess, but never succeeded. I can often play positionally pretty well for a while, but almost invariably at some point in the game like @pglewis I do something stupid, missing some obvious opponent's attack, and lose on a single move. My rating never got past about 1300, I'm afraid, despite a fair amount of work trying to get better.


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## openseas (Feb 23, 2018)

newtonbase said:


> That does work. It might highlight something you are doing wrongly or where you might have a weakness.



On top of @newtonbase 's comment + 
@SpartanSailor / instead of sighted, edge / corner separate practice will be better. You'll tell if you mix up execution based on corner/edge status. It will be helpful to push your memo.

As a separate training, you can drill your execution whatever letter pair you think you need pratice. I guess you'll be needing more drill on M slice pairs at your stage.


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## Jason Green (Feb 24, 2018)

mark49152 said:


> Off topic, but has anyone seen this act of breathtaking superhumanity? Makes MBLD look silly.


I don't play, don't even know enough to find this impressive really (or maybe it's more accurate to say I don't understand how impressive it is, which to me equals not impressed). I played two or three games as a kid. To an average person I would think playing a single person blindfold in chess might be less impressive than solving a cube blindfold. It would be an interesting poll.


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## SpartanSailor (Feb 24, 2018)

I tried something different tonite. Unlimited memo time. Really committed my memo... then, feeling SUPER confident I donned my blindfold and with confidence I unveiled my own eyes to see a perfectly scrambled cube

So I did the same scramble and verified my memo and did it again... I did this a third time sighted. Then I saw it. I had a T-W-T move that I did as TWN (using speffz). Meaning I flipped my own edge. Then, forgot I had an odd number of targets and so the corners were all off from the go...

Not a terribly exciting practice session to the uninitiated, but it was genuinely helpful for me to dial in that solution and find all my errors that I’d have NEVER learned had I just moved on to my next scramble. 

Of course, after finding all my mistakes, I did it 1 final time to a successful result. 

I’m calling that a successful practice


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## h2f (Feb 24, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> I’m calling that a successful practice



I do it quite often in last time because I've changed many algs and I was doing it when i started. It's much easier to eliminate mistakes if you know why you was mistaken and what was the correct way of solving the cube. 

I'm just starting driving to next copmetition. Wish me luck.


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## One Wheel (Feb 24, 2018)

muchacho said:


> Offtopic, anyone play chess? If any would like to play with me (I'm 1650 points in 10+0 at lichess.org) please send me a PM. It doesn't have to be blindfolded chess, but I would accept the challenge
> 
> _1900 timed 3x3 solves so far this year, not sure if I've improved though._



I know enough about chess to move the pieces. I actually beat someone twice in one day just a couple of weeks ago. It would admittedly be more impressive if the guy wasn't 5 years old, or if he was taking the game seriously, but I'll take what I can get. I've been trying to pick up Go the last few weeks. I've only played half a dozen games or so, but I've really enjoyed it. My sister tells me now that between Rubik's cubes and Go I must secretly be a 17-year old Asian boy. She's probably on to something there.


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## mark49152 (Feb 24, 2018)

Good luck Grzegorz @h2f!


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## muchacho (Feb 24, 2018)

Someone played blindfolded (him, not me) chess with me once, I won, but I was TOTALLY amazed that people could even do that. I'm guessing it's more difficult than multi-bld, at least in terms that not everyone could do it even if trying hard, there are people who have a condition called Aphantasia, they can't form images in their minds. And I would say I have that, I dream, and if for example after I spend some time watching let's say cat photos if I close my eyes images of cats might come to my mind (not the same I just saw), but I can't control it, ask me to image a cube or a rectangle and I just could not do it.

So I could probably do multi-bld, although I would most likely be awful at it, but I'm not sure if I could play chess blindfolded no matter how much I could try.


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## Logiqx (Feb 24, 2018)

@mark49152

This might provide food for thought.

https://featuredcontent.psychonomic...th-more-chess-knowledge-and-chess-experience/


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## bubbagrub (Feb 24, 2018)

Logiqx said:


> @mark49152
> 
> This might provide food for thought.
> 
> https://featuredcontent.psychonomic...th-more-chess-knowledge-and-chess-experience/



Also it's interesting to note that when people like Hikaru Nakamura play, they spend quite a lot of their thinking time not looking at the board. They seem to automatically remember the entire board position without any particular effort. And Magnus can recognise positions from every game he's ever played but also pretty much every reasonably well known game that other grandmasters have played. So playing a single game blindfolded is fairly easy for them, but that doesn't stop it from being impressive, in my opinion.

But playing more than one at a time, that's a really incredible achievement, and to me, much, much more impressive than MBLD. The reason being that in MBLD you have a static environment: the cubes are scrambled once, and you memorise them. When playing many simultaneous chess games you have a bunch of boards that change with every move, so you can't just memorise each board once -- you have to be able to store an internal representation of each game and update it with each move. I can just about play a single blindfold game of chess for somewhere between 5 and 10 moves and then after that it gets blurry and I forget stuff. The idea of being able to do it for dozens of boards without forgetting the positions of any pieces really does blow my mind.


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## mark49152 (Feb 24, 2018)

Logiqx said:


> @mark49152
> 
> This might provide food for thought.
> 
> https://featuredcontent.psychonomic...th-more-chess-knowledge-and-chess-experience/


Whether MBLD or multiblind chess is more impressive is entirely subjective. I have not tried blindfold chess and am only a mediocre player, and my frame of reference is to compare what I know about playing sighted chess to what I know about MBLD.

As Ben said, one fundamental difference is that MBLD is static. It's a straightforward case of encode, memorise, then execute blindfolded. The skills that lead to impressive results are memory techniques and speed, execution method and speed, time management, and concentration/focus, as a single lapse can be fatal.

Blindfold chess to me is almost entirely different. There's nothing to memo at the start. Each game evolves dynamically. As the article points out, tracking the position of each game may be helped by patterns and knowing the history of how the position was reached, and is not just a case of encoding and recalling individual piece positions (like MBLD). Plus, I would imagine, the player would also need to recall plans, strategies, risks and options they had already thought through, including their assessments of what the opponent is up to. 

I would guess that for an individual game, it would be relatively easy for an experienced player to play blindfolded. What impressed me about this guy was playing 48 at once, especially since the effort to do so had to be sustained for over 18 hours, and he still won 35 of the games. And it's a record that stood since the 1940s until recently, so clearly not easy .


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## h2f (Feb 24, 2018)

49.xx in 3bld but dnf on M slice.


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## newtonbase (Feb 24, 2018)

h2f said:


> 49.xx in 3bld but dnf on M slice.


Ouch


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## mark49152 (Feb 24, 2018)

h2f said:


> 49.xx in 3bld but dnf on M slice.


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## openseas (Feb 24, 2018)

h2f said:


> 49.xx in 3bld but dnf on M slice.



Oh, no... :-(


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## pglewis (Feb 24, 2018)

h2f said:


> 49.xx in 3bld but dnf on M slice.



Soooooo close!


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## Selkie (Feb 25, 2018)

@Mike Hughey - Hardware has moved on so much in recent years. I would echo what most have said. Maybe useful to outline my mains at this stage:-

2x2 - Moyu Weipo - I bought the Gans 249v2 but I really dont think magnets are needed or improve 2x2 at least in my old extremities.

3x3 - Cubicle Labs Weilong GTS2M - Very close rival to the Valk 3M.

4x4 - Moyu Aosu GTS M - Just prefer this over my Cubicle Labs WuQue M though it does pop internals if I am not careful. Prefer the Aosu size.

5x5 - Cubicle Labs Wuchuang - Heard great reports of the yet to be released aochuang GTS M

6x6 - Yuxin Red with 5x5 springs - magnetised by Evan Liu for me - Evan really knows how to magnetise bigger cubes and I love this

7x7 - SpeedCubeShop SuperNova Wuji 7x7M - If the prices of magnetised bigger cubes is a bit eye watering you could do a lot worse. Takes some breaking in but sure an awesome cube now.

------

Selkie Jnr (Guy) is progressing so well, so proud of him. We had not timed any of his solves since the first one so we decided this evening to film a few and he ended up with this PB average of 5 with 2 consecutive PB singles:-

Average of 5: 50.96
1. 42.10 D' F2 L2 U2 F2 R2 D' L2 F2 R2 U' F' R' U' B U' L D' L F' U' 
2. (39.52) B2 L R2 F2 U2 R B2 R' B2 U2 R D B2 U' R2 U L B' D2 R2 B 
3. (1:10.79) D' U2 R2 D2 R2 F2 U' L2 R2 B2 U' R D B R2 D2 L B2 D R2 F' 
4. 50.18 D2 U' R2 U2 F2 R2 F2 D B2 R2 F2 L' B' D F2 U L U' B2 U B2 
5. 1:00.61 D2 B U' L F2 B U' D2 F U2 R' B2 L B2 L2 U2 B2 U2 F2


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## h2f (Feb 25, 2018)

I've watched my 49 and DNF was on M slice but not of Mslice - I did something wrong on edges (I do corners first) 2 algs before the end. In the end the cube was a little bit scrambled. Happens. Today I have 3 chances to get sub1 again.


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## muchacho (Feb 25, 2018)

Finally some 3x3 PBs after many months.

Old
Ao5: 14.798 (9-Aug-17)
Ao12: 16.080 (1-Sep-17)

New
Ao5: 14.683 (25-Feb-18)
Ao12: 15.877 (25-Feb-18)



Spoiler: Ao5



62708 25-feb-2018 10:49:51 00:14.081 D' F2 D2 B2 L2 D R2 U' B2 R2 D B D L' D2 R' D R D U' R2 U'
62707 25-feb-2018 10:49:01 00:14.911 R2 U B2 F2 R2 B2 D B2 U B2 D B D' U2 R U2 R2 F U2 L' B'
62706 25-feb-2018 10:48:26 00:16.632 L2 D2 B2 L2 U' F2 D R2 F2 D F L' F D' L2 U' R F2 D B' F' U'
62705 25-feb-2018 10:47:41 00:14.151 L2 D F2 U L2 U F2 R2 U' F2 U B' L F' D2 R D2 U F R' D' U'
62704 25-feb-2018 10:47:04 00:14.989 D' R2 L2 U F2 D' R2 U F2 U R' U2 B2 U F' U2 R2 U' F R2 D'





Spoiler: Ao12



62711 25-feb-2018 10:52:06 00:17.135 B2 L2 D' L2 F2 U L2 U' B2 U2 L2 B' D U2 F' U F2 L B2 U L'
62710 25-feb-2018 10:51:17 00:18.015 D R2 B2 L2 U L2 D' F2 D R2 D2 B F L' D L D' R2 L2 B R D'
62709 25-feb-2018 10:50:30 00:16.536 L2 D' F2 U' F2 R2 D2 U' B2 L2 F R' F' U F U L' D F2 L
62708 25-feb-2018 10:49:51 00:14.081 D' F2 D2 B2 L2 D R2 U' B2 R2 D B D L' D2 R' D R D U' R2 U'
62707 25-feb-2018 10:49:01 00:14.911 R2 U B2 F2 R2 B2 D B2 U B2 D B D' U2 R U2 R2 F U2 L' B'
62706 25-feb-2018 10:48:26 00:16.632 L2 D2 B2 L2 U' F2 D R2 F2 D F L' F D' L2 U' R F2 D B' F' U'
62705 25-feb-2018 10:47:41 00:14.151 L2 D F2 U L2 U F2 R2 U' F2 U B' L F' D2 R D2 U F R' D' U'
62704 25-feb-2018 10:47:04 00:14.989 D' R2 L2 U F2 D' R2 U F2 U R' U2 B2 U F' U2 R2 U' F R2 D'
62703 25-feb-2018 10:46:29 00:16.273 F2 D' L2 B2 U' R2 U B2 U B2 D' R' F U B2 L2 D' F R U F
62702 25-feb-2018 10:45:43 00:17.686 R2 U' B2 U' F2 D' F2 D2 R2 U' F2 L' B L B D2 U' R2 U F' U
62701 25-feb-2018 10:45:00 00:15.072 D B2 L2 U F2 D B2 U' R2 U F2 R U F D' U2 R U' L' F' R2
62700 25-feb-2018 10:44:26 00:15.391 D2 L2 B2 D2 R2 F2 U' L2 F2 L2 B' R D' U' B U2 B' L' B2 D




Edit: Also
Mo100: 17.885 (07-Oct-17)
Mo100: 17.635 (25-Feb-17)



Spoiler: Mo100



62787 25-feb-2018 14:25:06 00:16.535 L2 F2 R2 U' L2 F2 U' R2 L2 F2 D' B D' R U B' U2 F2 L U' L
62786 25-feb-2018 14:24:26 00:16.239 U B2 U2 R2 U B2 L2 U2 L2 U B2 R U' F' L2 U2 B' D' B2 R2 L
62785 25-feb-2018 14:23:33 00:15.687 R2 B2 D2 B2 U2 R2 D' F2 R2 U R L2 D F D B F' D' R L D
62784 25-feb-2018 14:22:55 00:18.119 F2 D2 F2 U' R2 F2 U F2 L2 D2 L U B' L' D' F L' F2 D' R2 U'
62783 25-feb-2018 14:22:15 00:17.360 D2 U F2 D F2 R2 B2 D R2 L2 F' R L' B F2 D' F L2 D'
62782 25-feb-2018 14:21:27 00:15.688 F2 D L2 U B2 U2 F2 R2 B2 U' R F L D L2 B' R2 L U' B'
62781 25-feb-2018 14:20:16 00:17.262 R2 B2 L2 D2 L2 F2 D' B2 U F2 L2 B R2 U' B2 L' U2 R' U2 F' U'
62780 25-feb-2018 14:19:35 00:17.615 D' F2 U' R2 B2 F2 U' B2 U B2 U' R L D' B2 U2 F' D2 B' R' D' U
62779 25-feb-2018 14:18:38 00:17.654 U' F2 L2 U' L2 B2 U R2 U' F2 D' F' U F' R2 B2 L' B U' F' U'
62778 25-feb-2018 14:18:03 00:17.359 U F2 L2 B2 U' L2 D' R2 U' F2 U' B' R2 B2 U R2 D2 R B2 D R2
62777 25-feb-2018 14:17:14 00:15.895 F2 R2 U' F2 R2 L2 U B2 D2 L2 D2 R B' D F U F2 L' U2 R' U' F
62776 25-feb-2018 14:16:33 00:19.094 D R2 B2 F2 U' L2 D' U2 B2 U' F2 L U2 F' D B U R2 D' R D
62775 25-feb-2018 14:15:47 00:15.632 D2 R2 D' R2 U2 B2 U L2 U L2 F' U2 L' B2 D' B2 D2 L' B' U
62774 25-feb-2018 14:15:09 00:14.559 R2 D' F2 R2 D' F2 D' L2 D L F2 U' R L2 F R2 B2 U2 B' U L'
62773 25-feb-2018 14:14:27 00:17.320 U B2 U R2 D' B2 R2 D F2 U2 L2 F R2 U R' D2 B U' R D' L' U2
62772 25-feb-2018 14:13:10 00:14.190 D' B2 R2 D' U2 F2 R2 L2 D B2 U' F' R F2 D' B' R2 D' R' U' R U2
62771 25-feb-2018 14:12:30 00:15.223 B2 L2 B2 R2 D2 L2 D' F2 U L2 U' B' R' F2 R2 L2 D2 U' R D' B2 D2
62770 25-feb-2018 14:11:54 00:19.615 F2 L2 F2 U R2 U2 F2 U L2 B2 D B' L F D F' L D B L' U
62769 25-feb-2018 14:11:18 00:14.631 U2 B2 D B2 R2 B2 U2 L2 U' L2 U2 B R U2 R2 D2 L F2 U B2 L' U'
62768 25-feb-2018 14:10:39 00:19.622 R2 F2 L2 D' B2 D U R2 U' F2 D2 F D U2 R D L' U B2 R L
62767 25-feb-2018 14:10:00 00:19.391 F2 D' R2 D2 F2 R2 D F2 L2 F2 U' L D' F' R' F U B2 L' B R'
62766 25-feb-2018 14:09:22 00:18.177 U' B2 U' R2 D L2 D' B2 U' F2 U F' L U R F R2 B2 L D2 R2 U'
62765 25-feb-2018 14:08:45 00:19.327 D R2 U2 L2 D B2 L2 F2 D B2 U' B F D F' U L F U' B2 F2 D'
62764 25-feb-2018 14:08:08 00:19.037 D L2 B2 R2 U R2 D R2 F2 U2 R2 F' L' F' D2 B' D2 B2 R2 L D'
62763 25-feb-2018 14:07:29 00:17.919 R2 U' B2 D F2 U' B2 L2 D U' R2 B' U' B2 R F2 L' B' F2 L2 F' U'
62762 25-feb-2018 14:06:49 00:17.777 L2 D' F2 L2 D2 F2 L2 F2 D' F2 U2 L' D' F L' D B' F D2 B' L2 U'
62761 25-feb-2018 14:06:11 00:18.038 F2 R2 F2 U F2 U B2 U B2 U' B2 R' D2 B D' R D2 R' B' R2 F
62760 25-feb-2018 14:05:35 00:15.911 F2 D' L2 U2 R2 D R2 B2 D2 B2 U' R D R' F' R U' L B' L D2 U'
62759 25-feb-2018 14:04:58 00:16.367 B2 U2 L2 D F2 R2 U2 B2 L2 D2 B2 R' F' L B R' L2 B' D' U B
62758 25-feb-2018 14:04:22 00:15.973 L2 F2 D F2 R2 U2 F2 U2 B2 U2 R2 F L2 U R' U F2 U' R2 D2 R2
62757 25-feb-2018 14:03:45 00:16.311 L2 D B2 F2 R2 B2 U L2 D L2 F2 R' F' D L D' B U' L B R D
62756 25-feb-2018 14:03:07 00:19.127 U' B2 F2 L2 B2 R2 L2 D' U2 B2 U L F R' F' D' R2 L U2 F' U
62755 25-feb-2018 14:02:28 00:18.198 U R2 B2 D2 B2 U R2 U2 F2 R2 D B' R L U2 R2 B F2 U' R2 U
62754 25-feb-2018 14:01:50 00:17.646 R2 F2 D' R2 L2 U L2 F2 D' U' F2 R' B D F2 R U' R2 D F' R2 U'
62753 25-feb-2018 14:00:59 00:27.902 B2 R2 L2 D' B2 D L2 F2 U F2 D L U B' R2 D' F2 D2 F2 D' F' D'
62752 25-feb-2018 14:00:20 00:14.095 D U B2 D2 U R2 D B2 R2 B2 R2 B' R F2 R' U2 F' D2 F2 L' B
62751 25-feb-2018 13:59:43 00:17.334 U2 R2 D' B2 U' F2 D2 L2 D' R2 U L' U2 F R' F2 R D R' D2 L'
62750 25-feb-2018 13:35:24 00:19.447 U2 R2 D' R2 U2 B2 L2 F2 L2 D R2 F' L' D2 F' D' L' B2 L D' R'
62749 25-feb-2018 13:34:47 00:15.535 R2 D R2 D' L2 B2 F2 U2 L2 B2 D2 F D U' F D2 F' U' L' B D2 U2
62748 25-feb-2018 13:34:09 00:18.614 D2 B2 L2 D R2 U B2 R2 B2 R2 U' B' R' U' F' U B' L' B2 R' B U
62747 25-feb-2018 13:33:30 00:17.374 D' F2 U2 L2 B2 U2 L2 F2 L2 F2 D' R' F' U' L D2 U2 F2 D2 L' U
62746 25-feb-2018 13:32:50 00:20.103 L2 F2 U R2 U' L2 D2 F2 D R2 U' B D' F' U2 L D2 R' F U' R U
62745 25-feb-2018 13:32:17 00:14.103 U2 L2 U R2 U2 R2 U' L2 D' R2 U B U B2 F L2 D2 R' D B' U'
62744 25-feb-2018 13:31:44 00:14.655 F2 D2 U' R2 D L2 F2 D L2 U L F2 U' F' U2 B' R U' L2 D' R U2
62743 25-feb-2018 13:31:03 00:17.063 F2 U' F2 U' R2 D2 U L2 D' U2 B' R D' L B2 R B D B
62742 25-feb-2018 13:30:29 00:17.743 B2 D2 R2 B2 U2 R2 D' F2 L2 D R' U2 F' U2 B' R2 D L' B' D2 L2
62741 25-feb-2018 13:29:48 00:20.031 U L2 D B2 R2 D2 L2 F2 L2 U B2 R D' B F2 R' U L2 F2 U B' U'
62740 25-feb-2018 13:28:43 00:16.431 D' B2 F2 R2 U' F2 L2 U B2 F2 R' F U R2 F' R B U R'
62739 25-feb-2018 13:28:07 00:14.534 U' F2 U F2 R2 D F2 L2 U' F2 U R D2 R' F D2 U' R' B D L' U2
62738 25-feb-2018 13:27:29 00:18.071 U R2 U2 L2 D R2 B2 D F2 U2 F' D' B' L2 U L' D2 B' R F' D2
62737 25-feb-2018 13:26:47 00:15.328 F2 D2 U' F2 D R2 U' R2 U B2 U' R F R2 F2 U' R' F' L B2 U' L'
62736 25-feb-2018 13:26:13 00:16.623 U2 L2 D' F2 D R2 U' B2 R2 D2 B L' U2 F2 R' D F2 R2 B F2 U'
62735 25-feb-2018 13:25:32 00:17.391 D R2 U L2 F2 R2 B2 D F2 R2 U' L D2 R' U2 F D' B L' B' D'
62734 25-feb-2018 13:24:56 00:16.543 U R2 B2 L2 B2 U F2 U' L2 D' F U' L2 D L U' R2 F' D' F' U'
62733 25-feb-2018 13:24:18 00:16.799 F2 U2 F2 D L2 U' B2 F2 U' L2 U R' B R' D2 R2 F' L B' D' L2 U
62732 25-feb-2018 13:23:36 00:18.632 D' B2 R2 D2 L2 F2 U' F2 U2 L2 F2 L U' F L D' L2 D R B D' U'
62731 25-feb-2018 13:22:56 00:16.262 U' L2 U2 L2 F2 L2 U F2 U' L2 U R' U B2 L' B2 F D' U' L' D2
62730 25-feb-2018 13:22:18 00:19.855 U' B2 U2 F2 U' L2 D2 B2 L2 U L' F R' D2 B' U' R L' D2
62729 25-feb-2018 13:21:38 00:18.464 U' L2 U' B2 D L2 U F2 D2 F2 L2 F' D2 U2 R B' D2 U L' U2 B' U'
62728 25-feb-2018 13:21:02 00:16.184 U2 L2 D2 F2 D B2 D R2 B2 L2 U L F D' F U R U' B D2 U'
62727 25-feb-2018 13:20:20 00:22.151 L2 D F2 U2 R2 U2 L2 B2 U' R2 F2 L F D' U' B' F2 L' F L' D U'
62726 25-feb-2018 13:19:40 00:17.263 R2 U F2 L2 D R2 L2 U' L2 U2 R' F' R2 F2 L2 D U R' B D2 U'
62725 25-feb-2018 13:19:05 00:17.742 R2 D' B2 D R2 B2 U2 R2 D2 U' F2 R D L2 F' D' U B' D2 L' B2 L'
62724 25-feb-2018 13:18:24 00:17.736 L2 U2 B2 D R2 B2 L2 U' B2 U B' L D U F' D' L' D' F' L' D2
62723 25-feb-2018 13:17:49 00:15.100 L2 U' L2 B2 F2 U' R2 L2 U2 F2 D F D2 B' L' D2 U B2 L' D U
62722 25-feb-2018 13:17:12 00:20.286 B2 U R2 U B2 L2 U R2 F2 D2 L2 B U' R D L' U L2 D' F' D
62721 25-feb-2018 13:16:31 00:18.712 R2 L2 U2 L2 F2 U' F2 D2 L2 F2 L2 F U' B U' B' R' L2 B D2 B
62720 25-feb-2018 13:15:50 00:20.855 R2 F2 D2 R2 D B2 U' F2 R2 F2 L D2 R D2 F U2 R B2 D B' U2
62719 25-feb-2018 13:15:13 00:16.167 D F2 U F2 L2 D' F2 D' B2 D U R L U F2 L2 B' D' L D2 U
62718 25-feb-2018 13:14:33 00:18.451 U F2 R2 L2 D2 B2 U' R2 D' L2 F' L2 U' F R' F' U2 F L' F U2
62717 25-feb-2018 13:13:53 00:19.951 R2 F2 L2 F2 D' R2 U2 F2 D L2 U L' U' B2 D' U' R2 F D F2 L U
62716 25-feb-2018 13:13:13 00:22.711 L2 F2 R2 U2 F2 U' B2 U2 B2 U' L2 B F' D' F' L B R D' L' D2
62715 25-feb-2018 13:12:35 00:18.728 D R2 D2 R2 U B2 D' F2 R2 F2 U' F' R' L' U' F2 R L' D R B' U'
62714 25-feb-2018 13:11:54 00:24.334 D2 L2 D' B2 D2 F2 D B2 D L2 D R' D2 F D' R' F L F' R D U'
62713 25-feb-2018 13:11:12 00:21.598 R2 L2 B2 D' L2 D2 B2 D' U L' D' B' F R D2 L' U B L2
62712 25-feb-2018 13:10:29 00:22.496 U2 L2 B2 U R2 D' U' B2 R2 U F2 L U2 R F' U B' D' R' L2 B D'
62711 25-feb-2018 10:52:06 00:17.135 B2 L2 D' L2 F2 U L2 U' B2 U2 L2 B' D U2 F' U F2 L B2 U L'
62710 25-feb-2018 10:51:17 00:18.015 D R2 B2 L2 U L2 D' F2 D R2 D2 B F L' D L D' R2 L2 B R D'
62709 25-feb-2018 10:50:30 00:16.536 L2 D' F2 U' F2 R2 D2 U' B2 L2 F R' F' U F U L' D F2 L
62708 25-feb-2018 10:49:51 00:14.081 D' F2 D2 B2 L2 D R2 U' B2 R2 D B D L' D2 R' D R D U' R2 U'
62707 25-feb-2018 10:49:01 00:14.911 R2 U B2 F2 R2 B2 D B2 U B2 D B D' U2 R U2 R2 F U2 L' B'
62706 25-feb-2018 10:48:26 00:16.632 L2 D2 B2 L2 U' F2 D R2 F2 D F L' F D' L2 U' R F2 D B' F' U'
62705 25-feb-2018 10:47:41 00:14.151 L2 D F2 U L2 U F2 R2 U' F2 U B' L F' D2 R D2 U F R' D' U'
62704 25-feb-2018 10:47:04 00:14.989  D' R2 L2 U F2 D' R2 U F2 U R' U2 B2 U F' U2 R2 U' F R2 D'
62703 25-feb-2018 10:46:29 00:16.273 F2 D' L2 B2 U' R2 U B2 U B2 D' R' F U B2 L2 D' F R U F
62702 25-feb-2018 10:45:43 00:17.686 R2 U' B2 U' F2 D' F2 D2 R2 U' F2 L' B L B D2 U' R2 U F' U
62701 25-feb-2018 10:45:00 00:15.072 D B2 L2 U F2 D B2 U' R2 U F2 R U F D' U2 R U' L' F' R2
62700 25-feb-2018 10:44:26 00:15.391 D2 L2 B2 D2 R2 F2 U' L2 F2 L2 B' R D' U' B U2 B' L' B2 D
62699 25-feb-2018 10:43:50 00:20.102 B2 U R2 L2 F2 U' L2 D2 F2 L2 B2 R F2 D' B U' B D2 R' L2 B D
62698 25-feb-2018 10:43:13 00:19.982 B2 F2 U2 B2 L2 U L2 U' R2 D2 B F' R' F2 D' F U B U F2
62697 25-feb-2018 10:42:33 00:18.646 D' R2 F2 D F2 U' B2 R2 D2 R2 D2 B' L B R B' D R' F' L' B' L
62696 25-feb-2018 10:41:51 00:17.239 U' L2 U2 R2 U' B2 L2 F2 R2 U L' B2 F D' F2 D2 L F' R2 D U'
62695 25-feb-2018 10:41:11 00:22.216 F2 R2 D R2 L2 D' L2 U F2 U F2 L F' D L D R2 L2 U' L D U2
62694 25-feb-2018 10:40:28 00:16.965 F2 L2 D' U2 B2 D2 B2 R2 F2 R' D2 B D L2 D R' B2 L' F2 D'
62693 25-feb-2018 10:39:47 00:19.079 L2 D2 U' R2 D' R2 L2 U F2 L2 F R2 L' D' B2 D2 U' L' B' R U2
62692 25-feb-2018 10:39:04 00:17.096 U L2 D2 R2 U' R2 U R2 U F2 U2 B' R' U' F' D' B R' F' L2 U' F'
62691 25-feb-2018 10:38:29 00:16.336 F2 R2 D' U2 R2 B2 U' F2 R2 L2 U2 R' L2 D U2 F L' F U2 B2 F U'
62690 25-feb-2018 10:37:55 00:16.857 R2 B2 U R2 F2 U R2 D' U2 L2 D' B F U B2 U F2 L2 U' L' F'
62689 25-feb-2018 10:37:16 00:16.614 F2 L2 B2 D L2 U L2 F2 U B2 F2 R' D2 B' U' R' F' D2 L' B' U' R2
62688 25-feb-2018 10:36:36 00:17.687 D L2 F2 R2 L2 D2 F2 D L2 D2 U2 L F U' L2 B2 D F U' B U'


----------



## muchacho (Feb 25, 2018)

How is an Ao100 usually calculated? Not counting the best (and worst) 5 solves?


----------



## openseas (Feb 25, 2018)

muchacho said:


> How is an Ao100 usually calculated? Not counting the best (and worst) 5 solves?



Yes, take out top/worst 5, total 10 in your calculation.


----------



## muchacho (Feb 25, 2018)

Thanks! Then my 3x3 Ao100 PB is 17.481, and 26.056 for OH.


----------



## phreaker (Feb 25, 2018)

I've been having "that" stretch at BLD. Every attempt seems to be off something small, and odd.

Some are tracing, some are execution, memo is holding up but until the other two are solid... I'm not going to push it.

Last night I literally mis-traced the last corner, one letter off my first success in a bit...

i know I'll break the dry streak and some of it is the conversion over to two letter words and pure verbal. But still. Ugh!

That said, I'm starting to remember and reuse words more and more... memo speed is getting faster. Execution smoother. Just needs more practice. And more practice... and probably some more.

I'll win yet .


----------



## SpartanSailor (Feb 25, 2018)

phreaker said:


> I've been having "that" stretch at BLD. Every attempt seems to be off something small, and odd.
> 
> Some are tracing, some are execution, memo is holding up but until the other two are solid... I'm not going to push it.
> 
> ...



Sounds like you and I are in the same boat, so to speak... I am always keeping an open mind about my BLD practice. I mean, it may “seem” routine to us, but on the whole... I’m trying to solve a 3x3 blindfolded!! That’s pretty awesome and I have come to expect that success is NOT a 100% given. 

I like the practice and then more practice mindset.


----------



## phreaker (Feb 25, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> Sounds like you and I are in the same boat, so to speak... I am always keeping an open mind about my BLD practice. I mean, it may “seem” routine to us, but on the whole... I’m trying to solve a 3x3 blindfolded!! That’s pretty awesome and I have come to expect that success is NOT a 100% given.
> 
> I like the practice and then more practice mindset.



I know I can do it... My mind is holding things better and better. I'm developing "patterns" of sound. Like Jack, Jick, JoK, and JuK all are are different. And getting my G/J sounds straight, C/K's.. etc. It is all practice.

Memo is an art... I'm sold on that.


----------



## SpartanSailor (Feb 25, 2018)

phreaker said:


> I know I can do it... My mind is holding things better and better. I'm developing "patterns" of sound. Like Jack, Jick, JoK, and JuK all are are different. And getting my G/J sounds straight, C/K's.. etc. It is all practice.
> 
> Memo is an art... I'm sold on that.


For sure! I definitely enjoy doing blind practice. It’s very rewarding to close your eyes with a scrambled cube and when you open them to see a solved one. I’m still new to the blind solving experience, but it’s a different beast and genuinely a great feeling to have success.


----------



## phreaker (Feb 25, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> For sure! I definitely enjoy doing blind practice. It’s very rewarding to close your eyes with a scrambled cube and when you open them to see a solved one. I’m still new to the blind solving experience, but it’s a different beast and genuinely a great feeling to have success.



Oh yeah... I thought I had two quiet moments yesterday at a volunteer event, so I went to memo a cube, and solve it... then the kids came... and they were amazed to see my hat over my face, and me attempting a blindfolded solve. The other was with adults... but still a fail. People are damn impressed when you even try, can't imagine the feeling of success in front of others.


----------



## SpartanSailor (Feb 25, 2018)

My first official attempt will be at a comp in Charleston, SC, on march 31. My old college roommate will be taking my son and I to the comp. not sure if he’ll stick around (probably will...), but I’d LOVE to get a success with him watching.


----------



## openseas (Feb 25, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> My first official attempt will be at a comp in Charleston, SC, on march 31. My old college roommate will be taking my son and I to the comp. not sure if he’ll stick around (probably will...), but I’d LOVE to get a success with him watching.



I registered, too. Not sure whether we'll be actually going there (need to fly :-() but we'll see.


----------



## SpartanSailor (Feb 25, 2018)

openseas said:


> I registered, too. Not sure whether we'll be actually going there (need to fly :-() but we'll see.


For Charleston?


----------



## openseas (Feb 25, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> For Charleston?



Yes


----------



## SpartanSailor (Feb 25, 2018)

You and your son? Oh man... I just checked the competitors... I’d LOVE to meet you guys in person. Hope it works out for ya!


----------



## openseas (Feb 25, 2018)

@SpartanSailor / You and I


----------



## SpartanSailor (Feb 25, 2018)

openseas said:


> @SpartanSailor / You and I
> View attachment 8908


That’s us!!


----------



## SpartanSailor (Feb 25, 2018)

openseas said:


> @SpartanSailor / You and I
> View attachment 8908


Now, I have some real motivation to do well on 3x3! Lmao


----------



## openseas (Feb 25, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> You and your son? Oh man... I just checked the competitors... I’d LOVE to meet you guys in person. Hope it works out for ya!



Me, too!


----------



## SpartanSailor (Feb 25, 2018)

That 25.03 Ao5 had lots of mistakes and two plus 2s....


----------



## JanW (Feb 26, 2018)

Geez what a scramble! Not the best solve, though.

Time List:
1. 14.89 D2 R2 U L2 D' F2 L2 F2 D L2 F' D F2 U' L D2 L' R D2

I had to try solving it again differently and got a 10.75! F2L in 14 moves, but i admit the 3rd inserted F2L pair was entirely accidental. 

x2 y // inspection
U R2 U2 R U R' U R2 // 2nd F2L pair
y' U2 R' U R2 U2 R // 4th cross edge, 3rd and 4th F2L pair
U R U R' U' R' F R2 U R' U' F' // OLL
U' F-perm // PLL

Edit: tried doing the same solution once more and got it done in 8.64. At least now I know what it feels like to solve in less than 10 seconds.


----------



## h2f (Feb 26, 2018)

The 2nd day of the competition in Warsaw was much better for me - I've menaged to get 2nd place in FM. There was only one attempt. I've found lucky 24 moves skeleton to 3 corners and it ended 30 moves solution. Luckily 2 other competitors found 30 and one found 24. I was too tired for 3bld - I've slept very bad (only 4 hours). Next weekend hopfully there will be more chances to get sub-1 3bld.


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## mark49152 (Feb 26, 2018)

Nice job on the FMC Grzegorz!


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## h2f (Feb 26, 2018)

mark49152 said:


> Nice job on the FMC Grzegorz!



Thanks. 2 DNFs in FMC last Sunday make their job - few guys showed me there how they deal with hard scrambles plus I did these 2 scrambles again in home starting with another beginning and with 1 hour limit of course. 

Next Saturday there will be 3 rounds of 3bld. I'm very motivated after talk with Maskow - he's really out of scale: he dont practice 3bld and managed to get 26.93 single and 32.68 mo3. And still he's a Master!


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## Lid (Feb 26, 2018)

Haven't been cubing too much the last weeks (read been watching the Olympics ...)
Well back on track with a new a5 & a12 PB
a12 = *14.686* / a5 =*13.354* (last5) (old 14.931/13.859)



Spoiler: Times & Scambles



1. 15.060 D B2 F2 R2 B2 D' B2 D2 R2 D' F2 L D R F2 D U F' R D L2
2. 13.793 R2 B D2 B F L2 U2 L2 B' L2 B U F2 U' L' D F' L2 B2 R' B
3. 14.062 L2 B2 D R2 B2 U B2 U' F2 L2 R' B2 D F' D B L2 D
4. (17.146) B2 D L2 B2 U' L2 D' L2 U2 R2 U2 R B2 F' D2 B' L' D2 R' F R2
5. 16.714 F' R2 B D B' D L F D' R D B2 L2 D F2 B2 U' L2 U2 B2 L2
6. 15.099 U' F2 U2 F2 R2 F2 R2 D U2 L2 B2 L D2 B2 F' D2 L' D B' L2 U'
7. 15.320 B2 U' L2 D F2 D' B2 F2 L2 D' L2 B R2 B2 U' B2 U B' R F L'
8. (12.622) B' L' B2 L2 D2 B R B2 U F D2 R2 F2 L2 B2 L2 U F2 L2 U D'
9. 16.754 F2 D2 U' L2 R2 U' F2 D' F2 L2 D2 F' R' D' F D' R B' U' B' U
10. 13.824 U2 L' U2 L B2 U2 L D2 U2 B2 U2 B' D F D2 F' D2 L B D'
11. 13.249 F2 L' F2 R' U2 F' B U2 R D' L2 U2 F R2 D2 F2 L2 B' R2 L2 D2
12. 12.988 B2 L2 B D2 L F2 B' D L' U' L2 B D2 B2 D2 B D2 B D2 L2 B'


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## Mike Hughey (Feb 26, 2018)

My work on 4x4x4 Hoya is finally paying off. I finally have an average of 5 and average of 12 that is faster than I think I ever did with simple reduction - I got a sub-1:20 average of 12 today! Still 6 seconds shy of my best single, but that's just luck anyway.


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## SpartanSailor (Feb 26, 2018)

Mike Hughey said:


> My work on 4x4x4 Hoya is finally paying off. I finally have an average of 5 and average of 12 that is faster than I think I ever did with simple reduction - I got a sub-1:20 average of 12 today! Still 6 seconds shy of my best single, but that's just luck anyway.


I've only had a handful of singles under 1:20 ever! Great work.


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## phreaker (Feb 26, 2018)

Finally broke my 3BLD skunking... Got one last night.

I'm getting closer and closer to being consistent enough to push memo and execution.

Also got a 5x5PB... dropping me to 4:47. (Which while not impressive here.. is a nice drop from 5:26.)


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## SpartanSailor (Feb 27, 2018)

I'm about to sit down for some 3BLD practice... it wouldn't hurt my feelings if I got a success tonite. LOL

Update: my first attempt... I have no idea what happen, but I’d have been better off just randomly turning the cube. I must have had my orientation off. 

My second attempt—SUCCESS! Feels so good. I’m going to end early and take that success for the night.


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## cubeshepherd (Feb 27, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> I'm about to sit down for some 3BLD practice... it wouldn't hurt my feelings if I got a success tonite. LOL


I am not quite old enough to be posting stuff in this thread, (not even in my 20's yet) : ) But I came across your comment and I wanted to wish you the best in your 3x3 blind solves with some success, if you have not yet gotten any. There was nothing more satisfying for me in cubing then getting me first blind success, and I am sure that you will feel the same if you have not yet already had some.


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## SpartanSailor (Feb 27, 2018)

cubeshepherd said:


> I am not quite old enough to be posting stuff in this thread, (not even in my 20's yet) : ) But I came across your comment and I wanted to wish you the best in your 3x3 blind solves with some success, if you have not yet gotten any. There was nothing more satisfying for me in cubing then getting me first blind success, and I am sure that you will feel the same if you have not yet already had some.


I’ve had a few successes, but not that many... still learning and have to remember that its okay to have a failure—as long as you’re enjoying the process. Plus, if failure weren’t an option, it’s be far less enjoyable when successful.


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## newtonbase (Feb 27, 2018)

Got my 4BLD DNF streak up to 11 which I believe is a PB. Yay me.


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## openseas (Feb 27, 2018)

newtonbase said:


> Got my 4BLD DNF streak up to 11 which I believe is a PB. Yay me.



After my first sub-10, 12 DNFs in a row, many were close but still....

edit: now, 13 :-(


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## SpartanSailor (Feb 27, 2018)

I’m going to begin tracking my DNF PB!! I think this is something I could be competitive at! Lol.


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## Mike Hughey (Feb 27, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> I’m going to begin tracking my DNF PB!! I think this is something I could be competitive at! Lol.


 Here's someone you can shoot for being better than:
https://www.worldcubeassociation.org/persons/2006NORS01?event=333bf
(He's another oldie - I think I remember that he's older than me!)
He had 28 DNFs in competition before his first success. And the best part is that when he finally succeeded, he was at a competition that had a strict 10 minute cutoff, and his successful solve was 9:59.43.


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## SpartanSailor (Feb 27, 2018)

I’ll take a 9:59.99 ... but 28 comps of DNF!?! Man... That would be years of nonsucesful attempts in comps. That is a record I hope NOT to beat!


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## newtonbase (Feb 27, 2018)

openseas said:


> After my first sub-10, 12 DNFs in a row, many were close but still....


Sub 10 though

I had 2 sub PB DNFs from 5 3BLD attempts earlier. Unfortunately my break was only 15 mins or I'd have got it.


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## Mike Hughey (Feb 27, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> I’ll take a 9:59.99 ... but 28 comps of DNF!?! Man... That would be years of nonsucesful attempts in comps. That is a record I hope NOT to beat!


No, not quite that bad. 28 attempts of DNF. Just 11 comps worth. And since then he's had quite a few successful solves.


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## SpartanSailor (Feb 27, 2018)

I forgot... you can get up to 3 DNFs per comp so long as you’re under the time limit. But still...


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## Mike Hughey (Feb 27, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> I forgot... you can get up to 3 DNFs per comp so long as you’re under the time limit. But still...


I suspect you'll get a success fairly quickly, probably even the first time you try it in competition, and come nowhere near his record. :-D

But I always admired Bruce's persistence. He truly wouldn't give up.


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## pglewis (Feb 27, 2018)

It should probably be tempered by remembering that blindfold techniques were still being hammered out back in 2006. Most of the reasonably experienced 3bld-ers in here are easily better or very close to the 1:28 WR at that time. I came into the game with an extra decade of development behind the craft and had the aid of experienced advice to guide me from the start but I'm sure a success wasn't quite the given back then that it is now.


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## Mike Hughey (Feb 27, 2018)

Very true. I'm pretty sure I remember he was just using Old Pochmann. And at that time, any kind of success seemed like a big deal. And this was back when we had the official age lists. If I remember right, he got on the top 10 oldest BLD solvers list (as ranked by oldest age solving in competition) when he got that success.


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## pglewis (Feb 28, 2018)

Having a good moment, got a PB Ao5 under 22 and would have been better had I started tracking a few solves earlier. I had a 20 and a couple 21s in four or five sub 23 solves before I decided it might be a good idea to start logging and the PB Ao5 included a 28 as the throw-out. Just a _little_ more consistency for a few f2l cases and that Ao12 is gonna get busted good.


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## SpartanSailor (Feb 28, 2018)

Some more dedicated BLD practice tonite. No success (current streak up to 5 ). But, I was pretty close a lot. Once I just forgot an entire cycle, but a couple attempts were off by only a couple flipped edges... 

I noticed that after a few, my mind started to misremember my memos by inserting old memo cycles into my current solve... the mental fatigue builds up and makes more complicated. 

Still takes me awhile, so 5 attempts in one night is about all I can manage time for (about an hour of practice uninterrupted).


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## SpartanSailor (Feb 28, 2018)

Mike Hughey said:


> Very true. I'm pretty sure I remember he was just using Old Pochmann. And at that time, any kind of success seemed like a big deal. And this was back when we had the official age lists. If I remember right, he got on the top 10 oldest BLD solvers list (as ranked by oldest age solving in competition) when he got that success.



There’s a top 10 oldest BLD in competition list? Where is this?


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## SpartanSailor (Feb 28, 2018)

@pglewis I have hot and cold streaks too... seems like when I feel like everything is going well, I start the timer and THATS when things go off the rails. 

Nice work with those times. That would be a good practice session for me!


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## Mike Hughey (Feb 28, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> There’s a top 10 oldest BLD in competition list? Where is this?


I'm very sorry to say that's long gone. It was really nice back when it existed. On the WCA Statistics page, they had lists for 10 oldest 3x3x3 solvers, 10 youngest 3x3x3 solvers, 10 oldest BLD solvers, and 10 youngest BLD solvers.

My middle daughter made a valiant attempt to get on the youngest BLD solvers list. She tried a number of times, and on the very last competition where she could have been the youngest ever (at the time so far), her final attempt had 2 twisted corners. :-(

They eventually took the lists away because they were concerned about exposing private data due to showing the ages. But it was really nice while it lasted.


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## cmhardw (Feb 28, 2018)

Hi all,

Been away from the forum for quite a while. I’m still around and still cubing, but my practice time is limited lately.

I have a son now! His name is Thane and he is almost 3 months old. I like to wear him in a baby wrap and practice cubing, and he does not seem bothered by the sound of the cube clicking. I have even gotten in some blind solves this way

Katie and I still cube and attend competitions in the southeast. We’re both going to Nationals this year, which is a first since 2013 which doubled as Nats and Worlds.

Glad to be back to the forum, and to this thread in particular


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## newtonbase (Feb 28, 2018)

cmhardw said:


> Hi all,
> 
> Been away from the forum for quite a while. I’m still around and still cubing, but my practice time is limited lately.
> 
> ...


Congratulations Chris. Your absence is excused.
I'm impressed that you are managing to get to any competitions with a little one.


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## MarcelP (Feb 28, 2018)

Selkie said:


> Wow so, so much discussion in thread over the last week or so.
> 
> @MarcelP - Could KH in blind be anything else at all buddy?!  How is the roux going matey?


Yeah, for me also a lot of posts to keep up with LOL. Still doing Roux, but do not seem t \o make any progress. But I am enjoying myself 



Logiqx said:


> Regarding the wine rack, it's not actually my kitchen... it's an airbnb that I stay in during the working week.


So how far do you live from work? (for me it is 1.5 hour single way with train, or one hour ny car).


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## newtonbase (Feb 28, 2018)

Just got a 13:30 4BLD success despite a 3:31 phone call received during memo. The maths made me cry a little.


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## cmhardw (Feb 28, 2018)

newtonbase said:


> Just got a 13:30 4BLD success despite a 3:31 phone call received during memo. The maths made me cry a little.


That’s some solid distraction training though! Sounds like significant sub-10 solve soon in ideal conditions?


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## newtonbase (Feb 28, 2018)

cmhardw said:


> That’s some solid distraction training though! Sounds like significant sub-10 solve soon in ideal conditions?


The target is 3 solves in 30 mins on 15th April with a maximum of 2 DNFs.


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## kbrune (Feb 28, 2018)

openseas said:


> Yes, take out top/worst 5, total 10 in your calculation.



How did I not know this!


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## SpartanSailor (Mar 1, 2018)

I’ve found a comp outside of Chicago, IL, here in the states. They have 3BLD with a cummalitive time for all (up to 3) attempts of 15 mins... this could be a real chance for me to get a couple shots at a success. It’s in April after my upcoming March attempt in Charleston, SC. 

I’m trying to convince a buddy of mine that enjoys Cubing but has never entered a comp to sign up and come along. He actually prefers 5x5 as his, but is a casual solver and really hasn’t taken to “speed solving” . But he’s actually interested at the idea of learning BLD. I’m going to work on him a little in that area, but hopefully I can swing this trip. 

How far have/will you guys travel for a comp?

I know we have an international group here, sonas a point of reference, Charleston is a 7-8 hour drive for me whereas the Chicago area one would be closer to 13–Id actually fly and visit my friend, but 13 hours of driving is a good “reference”. 

Welcome back and congrats to @cmhardw on the little guy!! 

@newtonbase i probably wouldn’t answer the phone if I were in the middle of my memo phase!! Good on you and well done with the 13:30 outright. I’m still blown away with the Big BLD stuff.


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## Jason Green (Mar 1, 2018)

@SpartanSailor I have flown to three comps, which is kind of ridiculous in a way but I had other excuses to make it seem justified. And my wife was always supportive! I live in Fort Worth, TX. Flew to Portland (have a niece there), Kansas City (an old friend had a son into cubing and we competed together), and Chicago (where I also have a friend) to drive to Fort Wayne for Nationals. I look at it more as an excuse to take a trip.


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## Mike Hughey (Mar 1, 2018)

@SpartanSailor: Are you talking about Dixon Spring 2018? I delegated the first couple of Dixon competitions. Things are pretty hectic with my daughters these days, but I might see if I can come to that. It's only a 4 hour drive for me.

Back when I first got into cubing, my daughters were younger so it was a little easier to get away by bringing them with me, so I made quite a few 8 hour trips for competitions. But I rarely went farther than that unless it was for Nationals.

We used to organize our summer family vacations around US Nationals. We'd do sightseeing along the route there and back, and drive to wherever it was. Those are some of our most memorable vacations:

2009 (Stanford, CA): From Indiana pretty much direct to Salt Lake City, where we stayed a day with my best friend from high school, then onto San Francisco for several days, then the competition. Then on to Yosemite, then the Grand Canyon, then the Painted Desert, then through New Mexico and Texas to visit relatives.

2010 (Cambridge, MA): straight to Virginia to visit my parents, then up through Maryland and Delaware to New Jersey to visit a Filipino restaurant and grocery, then to New York City for a day, then on to Boston for the competition and a little sightseeing, then up to Maine for some fresh lobster, then through Vermont and New Hampshire into upstate New York to Niagara Falls for a day, then up to Toronto for a Canadian cubing competition before heading home.

2012 (Las Vegas, NV): through South Dakota for the Badlands and Mount Rushmore, to the Devil's Tower, to Teddy Roosevelt National Park in North Dakota, to Montana, down to the Grand Tetons, then up through Washington State to Mount Rainier and then to Seattle, then back down through Boise Idaho to the Craters of the Moon National Park, then down to Salt Lake City to visit my friend again, then on to Las Vegas for the competition.


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## newtonbase (Mar 1, 2018)

Having a family i only get to stay away for one night which limits my travel time. Luckily the UK is small so I've not needed to drive over 2.5 hours domestically. The only exception was the 6 hours it took to get to the World Championships in Paris.
I'd happily travel to the continent mire often if I was able.


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## cmhardw (Mar 1, 2018)

newtonbase said:


> The target is 3 solves in 30 mins on 15th April with a maximum of 2 DNFs.


Right on, makes sense.

Shoot for an 80% success rate on each solve until you get one.

1-(1-x)^3>=0.99 gives x>=0.7846

If you get a solve, then go for something faster, but the “safest” you really have to go is 80% to guarantee a greater than 99% chance of getting at least one solve. Going for 80% success rate (until you get a solve) also helps to keep your times down when the round cutoff is a factor.

Good luck!


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## JanW (Mar 1, 2018)

Last week I got a 11.98 PB single with a complete LL skip. Didn't expect to beat it like this:

Generated By csTimer on 2018-3-1
single: 11.96

Time List:
1. 11.96 L U' F2 D L2 D2 R2 B2 U L2 U B2 R' B2 D2 F' R D U2 F D2

z2 y // inspection
F R' L D' // cross
y' R' U' R // F2L-1
L U' L' d L' U' L // F2L-2
U R' U R d' L' U L // F2L-3
d' L' U' L // F2L-4
U2 R' F R U R' U' F' U R // OLL
U R2 U' R U' R U R' U R2 U D' R U' R' D // PLL
U // AUF

53 moves full-step with a G-perm!? I can't recall when I would have ever had a PB single without skips.

I saw the first F2L pair during inspection. Otherwise nothing particularly special about the solve. Except it must have been very fluent execution at 4.4 moves/second.


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## newtonbase (Mar 1, 2018)

cmhardw said:


> Right on, makes sense.
> 
> Shoot for an 80% success rate on each solve until you get one.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the advice. Much appreciated


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## kbrune (Mar 1, 2018)

Jason Green said:


> @SpartanSailor I have flown to three comps, which is kind of ridiculous in a way but I had other excuses to make it seem justified. And my wife was always supportive! I live in Fort Worth, TX. Flew to Portland (have a niece there), Kansas City (an old friend had a son into cubing and we competed together), and Chicago (where I also have a friend) to drive to Fort Wayne for Nationals. I look at it more as an excuse to take a trip.



I have a cousin in Halifax which was a great excuse to fly there for a comp.


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## pglewis (Mar 1, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> I’ve found a comp outside of Chicago, IL, here in the states. They have 3BLD with a cummalitive time for all (up to 3) attempts of 15 mins... this could be a real chance for me to get a couple shots at a success. It’s in April after my upcoming March attempt in Charleston, SC.



Dixon Spring is enticing, maybe a good dry run for me for Great Lakes in May.


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## kbrune (Mar 1, 2018)

Mike Hughey said:


> My work on 4x4x4 Hoya is finally paying off. I finally have an average of 5 and average of 12 that is faster than I think I ever did with simple reduction - I got a sub-1:20 average of 12 today! Still 6 seconds shy of my best single, but that's just luck anyway.



Nice! I might have to take a look at Hoya. 4x4 is my worst event by far. It's the event where ive seen the least improvement vs practice time. I tried to switch to yau at some point but my times got slower and never really improved quick enough for me to want to practice more. I've given up on it a while back. For some reason the parity algs make me dislike solving 4x4 even more.

As for the distance comps below. I remember trying to plan to go to comps in your area back In my early competing days. Every comp I was looking at going to was delegated by you. In the end, I couldn't swing going to the 3 or 4 I looked at the time. I remember looking forward to meeting the illustrious Mike Hughey though lol
Perhaps one day. 




SpartanSailor said:


> I’ve found a comp outside of Chicago, IL, here in the states. They have 3BLD with a cummalitive time for all (up to 3) attempts of 15 mins... this could be a real chance for me to get a couple shots at a success. It’s in April after my upcoming March attempt in Charleston, SC.
> 
> I’m trying to convince a buddy of mine that enjoys Cubing but has never entered a comp to sign up and come along. He actually prefers 5x5 as his, but is a casual solver and really hasn’t taken to “speed solving” . But he’s actually interested at the idea of learning BLD. I’m going to work on him a little in that area, but hopefully I can swing this trip.
> 
> ...



2 East coast comps for me. I live in Ontario so Moncton is about 11 hours away. Halifax is 14-15 hours away.
I didn't drive for either though. Trains and Planes!

Edit: I forgot! I went to Boston for one. I drove the 6-7 hours for that one.


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## SpartanSailor (Mar 1, 2018)

Mike Hughey said:


> @SpartanSailor: Are you talking about Dixon Spring 2018? I delegated the first couple of Dixon competitions. Things are pretty hectic with my daughters these days, but I might see if I can come to that. It's only a 4 hour drive for me.
> 
> Back when I first got into cubing, my daughters were younger so it was a little easier to get away by bringing them with me, so I made quite a few 8 hour trips for competitions. But I rarely went farther than that unless it was for Nationals.
> 
> ...


Yes. That’s the one in Dixon. I’m trying to convince my friend to join in the fun. He feels like he wants to be faster before going.... I may just go anyway, but having decided yet.


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## SpartanSailor (Mar 1, 2018)

pglewis said:


> Dixon Spring is enticing, maybe a good dry run for me for Great Lakes in May.


I’m not opposed to Great Lakes in May either. My son and I went to Nationals there in Fort Wayne and really enjoyed ourselves.


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## One Wheel (Mar 1, 2018)

Dixon is about 3 1/2 hours for me. It's a very interesting event list, but that time of year and schedule I'd be doing well to make it for 5x5 and 3BLD.


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## pglewis (Mar 1, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> ... He feels like he wants to be faster before going ...



Which is how he'll feel forever because he'll be constantly improving if he keeps at it . 



SpartanSailor said:


> I’m not opposed to Great Lakes in May either. My son and I went to Nationals there in Fort Wayne and really enjoyed ourselves.



Mike and I are already signed up for that one, so barring any emergency I'll definitely be there. I'm seriously considering Dixon, I'll have to keep an eye open so I know to make some decision before it gets close to full.


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## SpartanSailor (Mar 1, 2018)

@pglewis that’s what I’m trying to tell him. 

I’m going to keep an eye on the Dixon comp as well and make some travel decisions before it fills up


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## pglewis (Mar 1, 2018)

I have a buddy that lives in Aurora, so another incentive. I could stay the night there on the 20th and meet up, then it's just a little over an hour to Dixon Sat. Gonna have to put that one as "highly likely" now.


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## SpartanSailor (Mar 1, 2018)

My friend lives in Waukegan. I think it’s about 2 hours, but he’s already invited me to stay with him... so, also in the likely category.


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## Logiqx (Mar 1, 2018)

MarcelP said:


> So how far do you live from work? (for me it is 1.5 hour single way with train, or one hour ny car).



About 2 hours each way... probably about 3:45 in total.


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## openseas (Mar 1, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> How far have/will you guys travel for a comp?



@SpartanSailor / I'm lucky in that department. I have all the excuses = my son 
Usually, bottle neck is his school schedule. We can leave Friday evening and need to comeback Sunday but not when he has lots of school stuffs. So, it's not that easy. Other than Nats, flew once, mostly driving (between 3~ 15 hrs). This March, there are couple of flying-distance comps we'd like to join : one in Florida, one in SC. We have the next Monday off for both weekends.


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## SpartanSailor (Mar 2, 2018)

openseas said:


> @SpartanSailor / I'm lucky in that department. I have all the excuses = my son
> Usually, bottle neck is his school schedule. We can leave Friday evening and need to comeback Sunday but not when he has lots of school stuffs. So, it's not that easy. Other than Nats, flew once, mostly driving (between 3~ 15 hrs). This March, there are couple of flying-distance comps we'd like to join : one in Florida, one in SC. We have the next Monday off for both weekends.


My son cubes too... so my excuse is to give my wife a quiet weekend while my son and I go off for some father-son bonding. 

I’ll be seeing you in SC... I’ll be sure to come say HI.


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## SpartanSailor (Mar 2, 2018)

So... my failure Streak PB for 3BLD came to a resounding end! Nice UNtimed success, just now. But for now, just need to build up the confidence, so I’m pleased.


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## Jason Green (Mar 2, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> @pglewis that’s what I’m trying to tell him.
> 
> I’m going to keep an eye on the Dixon comp as well and make some travel decisions before it fills up


Down here we don't get to make decisions before something fills up. One comp (I think 80 competitor but maybe it was only 50) filled up in under 2 minutes! I usually sit on my phone refreshing the page until registration opens.


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## openseas (Mar 2, 2018)

Jason Green said:


> Down here we don't get to make decisions before something fills up. One comp (I think 80 competitor but maybe it was only 50) filled up in under 2 minutes! I usually sit on my phone refreshing the page until registration opens.



Yeah, just missed Houston comp registration. I was flying, unfortunately, the registration opened when I was in the air. When I landed, already full.


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## openseas (Mar 2, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> My son cubes too... so my excuse is to give my wife a quiet weekend while my son and I go off for some father-son bonding.
> 
> I’ll be seeing you in SC... I’ll be sure to come say HI.



Purchased the flight ticket as well. Looking forward to seeing you!


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## h2f (Mar 2, 2018)

Maskow told me he uses Roman rooms in single solves. The room is a place where he solves. I was surprised. He said that his accuracy after this trick grown to over 90%.


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## mark49152 (Mar 2, 2018)

h2f said:


> Maskow told me he uses Roman rooms in single solves. The room is a place where he solves. I was surprised. He said that his accuracy after this trick grown to over 90%.


I do the same. One room per solve. It helps me recall more easily if I memo my images in a location. For a session of 20x 3BLD I will work through my first 20 MBLD rooms in order.


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## h2f (Mar 2, 2018)

mark49152 said:


> I do the same. One room per solve. It helps me recall more easily if I memo my images in a location. For a session of 20x 3BLD I will work through my first 20 MBLD rooms in order.



I've thought fast solvers use them only in big blindes and mbld. For example noone of my fast friends uses rooms in a single solve.


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## SpartanSailor (Mar 2, 2018)

Today has definitely started out well! First I wake up to notification that my office is closed due to severe weather/wind—start the weekend off early, right?!

Decided to do some practice... had several good rounds of 3x3. Then thought I’d do my 3BLD for the weekly comp. only got one, but it was 4:56.94!! My previous PB was 6:44.xx! Now THAT felt good. The others were DNFs around 7 min. So... I feel good about my time right now.

The first DNF... I’m not sure what happened. I think I picked up the cube and somehow changed my orientation and so was all messed up from the beginning.

The second DNF was an execution error. I still use OP/OP and failed to undo a set up for my parity after edges which left the top and bottom Center’s flipped... nailed the corners though. All the same, I was pretty stoked to get a success. It’s been a few weeks since I had one in the weekly comp.


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## SpartanSailor (Mar 2, 2018)

openseas said:


> Purchased the flight ticket as well. Looking forward to seeing you!


We decided to drive. See you there!


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## openseas (Mar 2, 2018)

h2f said:


> I've thought fast solvers use them only in big blindes and mbld. For example noone of my fast friends uses rooms in a single solve.



Almost every top blders (who's official singles are 20 or below) use audio-edges/image-corners not rooms. They are moving toward both audio, proven to be faster but need more practice.
Once I asked Jeff how you can memo in 6~7s both corners and edges: he traces corners just like reading alphabets and then makes images while tracing & audio-ing edges (audio - tracing happening at the same time). Honestly, I don't understand how that can happen.


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## h2f (Mar 2, 2018)

openseas said:


> Honestly, I don't understand how that can happen.



Mee too. Maskow said he uses place where he solves as a Roman room. It slows him down by 0.5 second. I think thats intresting.


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## kbrune (Mar 2, 2018)

openseas said:


> Almost every top blders (who's official singles are 20 or below) use audio-edges/image-corners not rooms. They are moving toward both audio, proven to be faster but need more practice.
> Once I asked Jeff how you can memo in 6~7s both corners and edges: he traces corners just like reading alphabets and then makes images while tracing & audio-ing edges (audio - tracing happening at the same time). Honestly, I don't understand how that can happen.



I don't understand how this is possible! I can't even just LOOK at every target in 7 seconds let alone try to register the info im looking at lol

I mean sometimes it takes me 1.5 seconds to find my orientation.

These pro BLDers can beat me in regular 3x3 event by using their BLD method.. it's crazy!


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## One Wheel (Mar 2, 2018)

openseas said:


> Almost every top blders (who's official singles are 20 or below) use audio-edges/image-corners not rooms. They are moving toward both audio, proven to be faster but need more practice.
> Once I asked Jeff how you can memo in 6~7s both corners and edges: he traces corners just like reading alphabets and then makes images while tracing & audio-ing edges (audio - tracing happening at the same time). Honestly, I don't understand how that can happen.


I can understand how that would work, but it would be crazy difficult. Audio and visual use different parts of the brain, so it's parallel processing. He's most likely seeing the letters to make the images, hearing them for the audio.


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## kbrune (Mar 2, 2018)

I've seen you guys list your memo/execution splits. Ive never even attempted to figure that out.
Do you guys just glance at the time during attempts and make a mental note? Or do you use a stop watch with a lap feature?

Have any of you kept track of splits even deeper? As in corner vs edge memo time and execution?

@mark49152 @newtonbase @openseas @Jason Green @pglewis @h2f @Mike Hughey 
can't remember who else does bld


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## openseas (Mar 2, 2018)

kbrune said:


> I've seen you guys list your memo/execution splits. Ive never even attempted to figure that out.
> Do you guys just glance at the time during attempts and make a mental note? Or do you use a stop watch with a lap feature?
> 
> Have any of you kept track of splits even deeper? As in corner vs edge memo time and execution?
> ...



If you use cstimer, there is an option called "multi phase". For BLD, people usually set as two: first hit start the timer, when you finish memo, hit the keyboard, it is just like "lap time", when you finish, the last hit. Then, you'll see two times recorded. First for memo, the 2nd for execution, add them up, overall BLD time.

For corner vs edge memo split, I usually peep the time right after the corner memo.


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## newtonbase (Mar 2, 2018)

openseas said:


> Almost every top blders (who's official singles are 20 or below) use audio-edges/image-corners not rooms. They are moving toward both audio, proven to be faster but need more practice.
> Once I asked Jeff how you can memo in 6~7s both corners and edges: he traces corners just like reading alphabets and then makes images while tracing & audio-ing edges (audio - tracing happening at the same time). Honestly, I don't understand how that can happen.


It's crazy how he can do both stages simultaneously. His images must be very well practiced. Full audio is certainly possible. I do it for 4BLD centres but I have to review too much to be quick. 



kbrune said:


> I've seen you guys list your memo/execution splits. Ive never even attempted to figure that out.
> Do you guys just glance at the time during attempts and make a mental note? Or do you use a stop watch with a lap feature?
> 
> Have any of you kept track of splits even deeper? As in corner vs edge memo time and execution?
> ...


I've never been able to remember to hit the button after memo on 3BLD and end up having to double press at the end of the solve. For 4BLD I time on my tablet app and my phone stopwatch at the same time and stop the phone after memo if I remember.


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## h2f (Mar 2, 2018)

kbrune said:


> @mark49152 @newtonbase @openseas @Jason Green @pglewis @h2f @Mike Hughey
> can't remember who else does bld



I used to it the way Jae, @openseas, wrote but I stopped because I've started to do this when stackmated. xd


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## pglewis (Mar 2, 2018)

kbrune said:


> I've seen you guys list your memo/execution splits. Ive never even attempted to figure that out.
> Do you guys just glance at the time during attempts and make a mental note? Or do you use a stop watch with a lap feature?
> 
> Have any of you kept track of splits even deeper? As in corner vs edge memo time and execution?
> ...



I haven't been timing 3bld much for a couple weeks but when I do it's always with splits right now (csTimer). I know my execution is easily sub 2:00 if I've practiced so i know sub 3:00 memo is my primary target to get comfortably under 5 mins.



SpartanSailor said:


> Decided to do some practice... had several good rounds of 3x3. Then thought I’d do my 3BLD for the weekly comp. only got one, but it was 4:56.94!! My previous PB was 6:44.xx! Now THAT felt good. The others were DNFs around 7 min. So... I feel good about my time right now.



Nice! Pretty much the same thing with my PB, it was a bolt out of the blue... not particularly easy but things just managed to go smoothly for some reason. You've done it once now so you know it's within your grasp.


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## kbrune (Mar 2, 2018)

@openseas 

I was thinking about what you said the pros do for memo. speed through corners and while doing audio for edges they simultaneously come up with images for the corner pairs? At least that's how I understood it.

Wouldn't it be the exact same process if they just went full audio anyway. Only they would just be avoiding the extra processing power of coming up with images? Seems to me that 100% would be less complicated and easier to memo?

it's a confusing concept to me!


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## mark49152 (Mar 2, 2018)

I don't get why using rooms for 3BLD would be slower. If you're memoing images anyway, why would it be slower to memo them in a particular place rather than in an arbitrary place?

Some fast solvers have told me they don't really form images at all, they just memo as a sentence because it's faster. I agree with that. Forming images does take time. When I do corners-only solves I use sentences and it is both faster and easier; but in a full 3BLD I can't retain a sentence for long enough unless I turn some or all of it into images.


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## SpartanSailor (Mar 2, 2018)

Just did another round of 3BLD practice... got 2/3 success! All around 7:30-8:00 range. Looked like the DNF was and odd target mix and I didn’t do the parity.


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## Mike Hughey (Mar 2, 2018)

I think the challenge with full audio is having the audio loop maybe get too large to recall. If you can do it full audio, it seems like it has to be better, but it seems so ridiculously hard to me to put a whole 3x3x3 in audio memory.


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## JanW (Mar 2, 2018)

Interesting that full audio is too much even for top blinders. I sure couldn't do it myself, but somehow it doesn't feel quite as impossible as many of the other things the top blinders do. Like solving in 20s... Or maybe I'm misjudging the difficulty because I do so many reviews of my own memo when I use audio for edges. Without the reviews it would be much harder to make audio stick.


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## newtonbase (Mar 2, 2018)

Mike Hughey said:


> I think the challenge with full audio is having the audio loop maybe get too large to recall. If you can do it full audio, it seems like it has to be better, but it seems so ridiculously hard to me to put a whole 3x3x3 in audio memory.


It's probably a lot easier when you can execute in under 15s!


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## kbrune (Mar 2, 2018)

mark49152 said:


> I don't get why using rooms for 3BLD would be slower. If you're memoing images anyway, why would it be slower to memo them in a particular place rather than in an arbitrary place?
> 
> Some fast solvers have told me they don't really form images at all, they just memo as a sentence because it's faster. I agree with that. Forming images does take time. When I do corners-only solves I use sentences and it is both faster and easier; but in a full 3BLD I can't retain a sentence for long enough unless I turn some or all of it into images.



I agree. When your room is pre determined. It doesn't even take up time to conjure it up. It's just there. I've started using this lately because I often have a long pause between edge and corner execution. I find picturing something "nowhere" makes it a lot more forgettable.



Mike Hughey said:


> I think the challenge with full audio is having the audio loop maybe get too large to recall. If you can do it full audio, it seems like it has to be better, but it seems so ridiculously hard to me to put a whole 3x3x3 in audio memory.



I feel like at the speed the top guys memo you don't even have time for a loop. If I imagine it right. The memo sticks in their brain with a combination of audio and brute recall of going through the tracing. I try to picture what goes on for them in the hopes of improving my own memo speed but it's so difficult to imagine how the memo process happens at quicker speeds.


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## pglewis (Mar 2, 2018)

newtonbase said:


> It's probably a lot easier when you can execute in under 15s!



^---- This. Execute fast enough that you don't have _time_ to forget


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## JanW (Mar 3, 2018)

I got my 100th sub-15 solve of 2018. It was solve no 2345. The 50th sub-15 was solve no 1425. The first 50 appeared at a frequency of 1 in 28.5 solves, the next 50 at 1 in 18.4 solves. While the big averages improve quite slowly, it is nice to see that there is still definitely improvement happening!

Running Ao1000 now at 18.45.


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## h2f (Mar 3, 2018)

pglewis said:


> ^---- This. Execute fast enough that you don't have _time_ to forget



It's not like that in my experience. You must be fast but execution of algs must be brainless. This means two things:
- if you use 3style algs one needs to practice them a lot till they become nautaral and brainless;
- if you use OP or M2/OP one needs to practice them a lot but not as many times as in the case of 3style. It is around 50 algs vs. almost 800 algs in 3style. With beginners method one can solve 3bld in 1 minute and less.


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## mark49152 (Mar 3, 2018)

kbrune said:


> I agree. When your room is pre determined. It doesn't even take up time to conjure it up. It's just there. I've started using this lately because I often have a long pause between edge and corner execution. I find picturing something "nowhere" makes it a lot more forgettable.


Exactly. I always choose my room as part of my pre-solve psyching up. Just before my solve, with my fingers on the timer, I pause for a few seconds and visualise that room empty. Then I lift the cover and fill the room.


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## SpartanSailor (Mar 3, 2018)

h2f said:


> It's not like that in my experience. You must be fast but execution of algs must be brainless. This means two things:
> - if you use 3style algs one needs to practice them a lot till they become nautaral and brainless;
> - if you use OP or M2/OP one needs to practice them a lot but not as many times as in the case of 3style. It is around 50 algs vs. almost 800 algs in 3style. With beginners method one can solve 3bld in 1 minute and less.


Beginners method? Do you mean M2/OP, OP/OP, or 3-style?

I assume you mean OP/OP. I’m a long way from being able to use 3-style, but I’m interested to see it explained so I can better appreciate it. Any good videos recommended?


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## h2f (Mar 3, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> Beginners method? Do you mean M2/OP, OP/OP, or 3-style?
> 
> I assume you mean OP/OP. I’m a long way from being able to use 3-style, but I’m interested to see it explained so I can better appreciate it. Any good videos recommended?



I mean OP/OP or OP/M2. Really one can solve sub1 - theres a lot evidences for that. If you memo cube in 15-20 seconds: 40 seconds is enough to solve the cube.


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## Fábio De'Rose (Mar 3, 2018)

h2f said:


> I mean OP/OP or OP/M2. Really one can solve sub1 - theres a lot evidences for that. If you memo cube in 15-20 seconds: 40 seconds is enough to solve the cube.



Just because you can, doesn't mean you should. When one reaches the point of sub 20 memo they should really already be considering 3Style, if not already implementing it.


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## h2f (Mar 3, 2018)

Fábio De'Rose said:


> When one reaches the point of sub 20 memo they should really already be considering 3Style, if not already implementing it.



I dont agree with it. It's up of preferences of the solver. For some of them sub1 is enough. For others - no. For me OP was boring so I've started 3style for corners when my memo was around 1 minute. I'm not sure if it was good choice but at the point I'm, I'm happy I use 3style.


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## SpartanSailor (Mar 3, 2018)

h2f said:


> I mean OP/OP or OP/M2. Really one can solve sub1 - theres a lot evidences for that. If you memo cube in 15-20 seconds: 40 seconds is enough to solve the cube.


Nationals (here in the states) is using a 4:00 qualifying time... sub-1 would probably place top 3 in anything I could attend locally!! But they don’t do much BLD stuff here. I have seen a couple comps dedicated to BLD and all it’s events, but not “local” enough to go watch.


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## pglewis (Mar 3, 2018)

I'm registered and confirmed for Dixon spring. There will be a fair bit of distraction practice for 3bld at the coffee shop to prep... today was not very good. It's a little different than in the peace and quiet at my desk!


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## Fábio De'Rose (Mar 3, 2018)

h2f said:


> I dont agree with it. It's up of preferences of the solver. For some of them sub1 is enough. For others - no. For me OP was boring so I've started 3style for corners when my memo was around 1 minute. I'm not sure if it was good choice but at the point I'm, I'm happy I use 3style.



Well, IMO it is objectively wasteful (time, effort and most especially movecount-wise) to spam TPS on a couple algs when one could have the exact same times with a fraction of the mechanical effort.


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## pglewis (Mar 3, 2018)

kbrune said:


> I find picturing something "nowhere" makes it a lot more forgettable.



I think this helps me with the issue of confusing parts of old memos when I'm doing several attempts in practice, at least a little.


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## h2f (Mar 3, 2018)

Fábio De'Rose said:


> Well, IMO it is objectively wasteful (time, effort and most especially movecount-wise) to spam TPS on a couple algs when one could have the exact same times with a fraction of the mechanical effort.



Spaming few algs is much easier than learing 800 algs.


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## Fábio De'Rose (Mar 3, 2018)

h2f said:


> Spaming few algs is much easier than learing 800 algs.



I'd argue that's being lazy, but to each their own haha


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## mark49152 (Mar 3, 2018)

Yes it's possible to sub-1 or even sub-40 with M2/OP but IMHO if the solver is dedicated enough to get that fast with M2/OP, it doesn't make much sense for them not to be working on 3style at that point. OP is seriously limited by its high move count and it would be wasteful to invest yet more practise time on it when at some point soon it will inevitably be holding them back.


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## SpartanSailor (Mar 4, 2018)

Wow! Sitting in Starbucks (power outage and my wife wanted to get out of the dark) and decided to do some “distracted” blind practice. Botched the first attempt, but shocked myself and nailed the 2nd attempt! Didn’t have my earmuffs or blindfold, just sitting here with my eyes shut... pretty awesome when I get a good memo and it all comes together. 

Didn’t time myself, but it was probably about average to longer for me, so maybe 10 mins or so? Anyway, I bet those that saw it happen were shocked... lol... I was

Edit: did it again! That’s 2 consecutive successes... and at the coffee shop! I heard a guy stop as he was walking by. I could “feel” him watching me. Needed to really focus at that point (I was into execution at that point). Block him out and kept going!! That one was definitely a pretty fast one for me. Again untimed, but feeling good. 

I’m glad I took a cue from others here to go practice where there exists different distractions. I’m very hopeful for Charleston at the end of the month.


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## h2f (Mar 4, 2018)

Fábio De'Rose said:


> I'd argue that's being lazy, but to each their own haha



It's a kind of argument to courage people to learn 3bld. Many of them - including me few years ago - think they have to learn tons of algs to be fast, which is not true. And on the other hand - I know a kid who for 4 months keeps talking of learning 3style skipping begginers method. He argues, he need something really good. But the thing is - beginners method is really good. And guess what - he didnt even start 3bld or solves 3bld in around 10 minutes.


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## Logiqx (Mar 4, 2018)

muchacho said:


> Thanks! Then my 3x3 Ao100 PB is 17.481, and 26.056 for OH.



In the interests of a bit of friendly CFOP vs Roux for OH, I pulled off a 25.79 Ao100 yesterday. It might have been closer to the 25.47 Ao50 had I not started rushing solves prior to a restaurant booking! You're still way ahead on Ao5 and Ao12 but we seem pretty close on the big averages.

In other news, I received a Wuxia M this Friday and it feels great. After a 2 month break from 2x2, I got a 4.95 Ao100 after warm-up. Predicting OLL during inspection (currently <50% of solves) helps a lot so I need to practice it. Sub-4 solves are so much easier when I only have to recognise PBL during the solve. I can sometimes predict PBL during inspection but it's quite rare within 15 seconds.


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## Jason Green (Mar 4, 2018)

Had a great competition yesterday! Kids had a party after so we were out late and I didn't take time to post. Instead of detailing the day, I want to make a highlights video with voice over talking about it.  Here are my results. PB 3x3 average was definitely a surprise!

http://m.cubecomps.com/competitions/2893/competitors/1


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## pglewis (Mar 4, 2018)

Not a PB Ao12 due to some mistake solves but today marks the first time I've had a counting sub-20 in an Ao12 with a pair of 19s. Of course, I also had a :33 where I initially solved the cross on the wrong side :smacks forehead:


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## pglewis (Mar 4, 2018)

Hat tip to @Jason Green on the new official average and @SpartanSailor on the solid distraction session. 

Also, @JanW is quietly becoming a real 3x3 threat. I've been vaguely trying to chase you for a year and a half here, could be a lot more people joining me soon.


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## phreaker (Mar 4, 2018)

h2f said:


> It's not like that in my experience. You must be fast but execution of algs must be brainless. This means two things:
> - if you use 3style algs one needs to practice them a lot till they become nautaral and brainless;
> - if you use OP or M2/OP one needs to practice them a lot but not as many times as in the case of 3style. It is around 50 algs vs. almost 800 algs in 3style. With beginners method one can solve 3bld in 1 minute and less.



50 algs?

What 50? I memorize ~6 algs? And the rest are all easy to derive on the fly in M2/OP. (1 in OP, ~5 in M2, needed memorization work.)

I wonder what the real count for someone like me would be in 3style corners. It is supposed to compare to learning F2L, not ZBLL, from all accounts.


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## phreaker (Mar 4, 2018)

My recent progress in BLD:

M2/OP, execution is becoming rock solid finally. I'm getting faster and more automatic. To the point where I think "Did I remember to do move X, in that sequence..." because the sequence is that automatic. the "N" target in M2 caused that one a few times now.  I/S are so solid I don't worry about them in memo now. (The two long M2 targets.)

Memo: Starting to push on it a bit. All audio, no visual components, using letter pairs. Mainly working on cutting down the need for re-reviews of memo at this point, and trusting it more. Pain points are when I hit combos I haven't used yet. Or that are just hard to come up with things for. Like "IJ". (I have a sound for that but... I have no idea what I'd type for it.) 

No timings yet... Still working on feeling like I have control of all of it without a clock, before I add the pressure of the clock.

The BLD is having good effects on my F2L for OH... but I need to practice more to keep PLL in muscle memory.


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## mark49152 (Mar 4, 2018)

My bag just got flagged at airport security and they pulled out my cube. "Rubik's cube? WHY?! It's the most annoying thing ever invented!"


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## newtonbase (Mar 4, 2018)

phreaker said:


> My recent progress in BLD:
> 
> M2/OP, execution is becoming rock solid finally. I'm getting faster and more automatic. To the point where I think "Did I remember to do move X, in that sequence..." because the sequence is that automatic. the "N" target in M2 caused that one a few times now.  I/S are so solid I don't worry about them in memo now. (The two long M2 targets.)
> 
> ...


I'm glad it's going well for you. Have you looked at any advanced M2 stuff yet. It's not urgent that you do but there's some easy ways to cut moves on some of the trickier targets including I and S. 4BLD wings has got me looking at it (and edge comms) more deeply.


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## newtonbase (Mar 4, 2018)

mark49152 said:


> My bag just got flagged at airport security and they pulled out my cube. "Rubik's cube? WHY?! It's the most annoying thing ever invented!"


Did they get a demo? 

I've never had any issue on a flight.


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## phreaker (Mar 4, 2018)

newtonbase said:


> I'm glad it's going well for you. Have you looked at any advanced M2 stuff yet. It's not urgent that you do but there's some easy ways to cut moves on some of the trickier targets including I and S. 4BLD wings has got me looking at it (and edge comms) more deeply.



I've read it. For now I'm more working on memo, and getting the basics of commutators started in my head. It takes time, so I figure start now a little bit.. and let it soak.


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## newtonbase (Mar 4, 2018)

phreaker said:


> I've read it. For now I'm more working on memo, and getting the basics of commutators started in my head. It takes time, so I figure start now a little bit.. and let it soak.


It makes sense to get everything solid and feel confident in what you are doing first. One of the things I like about advanced M2 is that you can add a little bit at a time and @mark49152 's thread lists them in a nice order.


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## JanW (Mar 4, 2018)

Thanks @pglewis, though I'm not sure threat to whom?  

Overall I am very happy with progress lately. Today I smashed my old pb Ao12 by 0.5 seconds (now 16.24), with five sub-15s within 12 solves! Two of them even sub-14. Unfortunately that is still not the new normal. Far from it. Running Ao12 was soon up above 19. I have these brief moments when I'm in the zone and every solve is so easy, then I drop out and all solves are suddenly 2-3 seconds slower. It's really weird how one moment even the solves that feel slow and clumsy end up at 17.xx, but not long afterwards the solves that feel fluent and fast end up at 18.xx while the rest are much slower.

3bld is not going as well, right now I'm in a horrible DNF streak. Almost 20 DNFs in a row. A lot of them were off by only one mistake, so there is still hope...


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## mark49152 (Mar 5, 2018)

newtonbase said:


> Did they get a demo?


No she looked genuinely horrified. I think she'd rather have arrested me than seen a demo.


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## SpartanSailor (Mar 5, 2018)

mark49152 said:


> My bag just got flagged at airport security and they pulled out my cube. "Rubik's cube? WHY?! It's the most annoying thing ever invented!"


They’ve flagged my bag before too!! I had 3 or 4 different size/style cubes to play with and they pulled them all out as if I was sneaking something illegal through! Hahahaha. When they realised what they were, they asked if I could solve it.


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## SpartanSailor (Mar 5, 2018)

JanW said:


> Thanks @pglewis, though I'm not sure threat to whom?
> 
> Overall I am very happy with progress lately. Today I smashed my old pb Ao12 by 0.5 seconds (now 16.24), with five sub-15s within 12 solves! Two of them even sub-14. Unfortunately that is still not the new normal. Far from it. Running Ao12 was soon up above 19. I have these brief moments when I'm in the zone and every solve is so easy, then I drop out and all solves are suddenly 2-3 seconds slower. It's really weird how one moment even the solves that feel slow and clumsy end up at 17.xx, but not long afterwards the solves that feel fluent and fast end up at 18.xx while the rest are much slower.
> 
> 3bld is not going as well, right now I'm in a horrible DNF streak. Almost 20 DNFs in a row. A lot of them were off by only one mistake, so there is still hope...


You are certainly faster than I am, but I have experienced a similar feeling of hitting a hot streak then next thing you know... cold. I just take it while I can and enjoy it. I’ve noticed that my times may still fluctuate quite a bit, but I’m hitting 20s and even sub-20s more often than ever before. There are definitely times when I can tell my look ahead is on... and then other times when it’s not.


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## pglewis (Mar 5, 2018)

JanW said:


> I have these brief moments when I'm in the zone and every solve is so easy, then I drop out and all solves are suddenly 2-3 seconds slower. It's really weird how one moment even the solves that feel slow and clumsy end up at 17.xx, but not long afterwards the solves that feel fluent and fast end up at 18.xx while the rest are much slower.





SpartanSailor said:


> I have experienced a similar feeling of hitting a hot streak then next thing you know... cold.



I just take it as reassurance that I've yet to find my first really stubborn plateau, those temporary peaks usually signify where I'm headed soon-ish. I got two _more_ :19s in some untracked practice later... that's four of 'em in a couple light practice sessions when I hadn't seen two in the same day until this past week. At the moment, a :22 might prompt a fist-pump or a shrug and yawn depending on whether I'm floundering or in a groove.

So many full-step 19s all of a sudden though... yeah, I'm looking at you, single PB.


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## h2f (Mar 5, 2018)

Jason Green said:


> Had a great competition yesterday! Kids had a party after so we were out late and I didn't take time to post. Instead of detailing the day, I want to make a highlights video with voice over talking about it.  Here are my results. PB 3x3 average was definitely a surprise!
> 
> http://m.cubecomps.com/competitions/2893/competitors/1



Great! 



phreaker said:


> 50 algs?
> 
> What 50? I memorize ~6 algs? And the rest are all easy to derive on the fly in M2/OP. (1 in OP, ~5 in M2, needed memorization work.)



Yes. I count an alg for a single target made of seutp+Y/Jperm+undo setup as a single alg. This leads to 21 algs for corners, and 22 for edges + algs for flips (few) + parity. This makes around 50 algs.


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## pglewis (Mar 5, 2018)

h2f said:


> Yes. I count an alg for a single target made of seutp+Y/Jperm+undo setup as a single alg. This leads to 21 algs for corners, and 22 for edges + algs for flips (few) + parity. This makes around 50 algs.



I can see that logic but I think it's a little bit misleading. Since OP corner setup/restore are all max 2 HTM I consider OP corners to be "1 alg". Basic M2 I consider as 5 algs (I, S, C, W, Q) and everything else is intuitive. Setups/restore took much less time to get used to for me than what I'd typically call an alg (and improved my intuitive sense for the cube a lot).


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## mitja (Mar 5, 2018)

pglewis said:


> I can see that logic but I think it's a little bit misleading. Since OP corner setup/restore are all max 2 HTM I consider OP corners to be "1 alg". Basic M2 I consider as 5 algs (I, S, C, W, Q) and everything else is intuitive. Setups/restore took much less time to get used to for me than what I'd typically call an alg (and improved my intuitive sense for the cube a lot).


I would say that all of those 50 are algs. The fact is they are mostly intuitive, but it doesn't mean they are not algs. The same goes for F2L, being intuitive doesn't make it non algs. I would say that when I understand the happening on the cube intuitively, I don't take it as an algorithm, but I am aware it is an algorithm.


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## pglewis (Mar 5, 2018)

mitja said:


> I would say that all of those 50 are algs. The fact is they are mostly intuitive, but it doesn't mean they are not algs. The same goes for F2L, being intuitive doesn't make it non algs. I would say that when I understand the happening on the cube intuitively, I don't take it as an algorithm, but I am aware it is an algorithm.



Right... but if I were considering learning 3bld today "50 algs" sounds really daunting even if it's technically accurate. Compared to learning 50 OLL algs, for example, it's nowhere near the same.


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## One Wheel (Mar 5, 2018)

pglewis said:


> Since OP corner setup/restore are all max 2 HTM I consider OP corners to be "1 alg".





mitja said:


> I would say that all of those 50 are algs. The fact is they are mostly intuitive, but it doesn't mean they are not algs.



I think I have to agree with @pglewis here. When I'm doing OP corners I use multiple combinations of setup moves, and I don't think of it in the same way as I think of algorithms at all. For example, R2 D' setup vs. F2 D: they set up the same sticker, but use different moves. I would consider the Y-perm the single alg, with setup moves before and after.


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## mitja (Mar 5, 2018)

pglewis said:


> Right... but if I were considering learning 3bld today "50 algs" sounds really daunting even if it's technically accurate. Compared to learning 50 OLL algs, for example, it's nowhere near the same.


Yes I 100% agree.


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## pglewis (Mar 5, 2018)

On the topic of 3bld, I was 0/2 at the coffee shop but actually encouraged. First one I left out at least a pair from edge memo but I was intentionally pushing ahead with less review. Second attempt was fairly smooth and off by a twisted corner.


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## h2f (Mar 5, 2018)

pglewis said:


> Right... but if I were considering learning 3bld today "50 algs" sounds really daunting even if it's technically accurate. Compared to learning 50 OLL algs, for example, it's nowhere near the same.



It's comparable 50 OLL algs are often mirrors, or same patterns with other setups, or just doing 2 OLLs etc.


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## mark49152 (Mar 5, 2018)

h2f said:


> It's comparable 50 OLL algs are often mirrors, or same patterns with other setups, or just doing 2 OLLs etc.


I disagree. Learning the setups is way easier and way more intuitive than learning 50 OLLs. I learned them in an hour, if that. It's not even fair to compare them to F2L cases, let alone OLLs.

At a work function in Budapest tonight, they laid on some entertainment... drum roll... a former Hungarian champion cuber! I don't recall his name but will look him up. He did some sighted solves and his finale was a theatrical 3 minute BLD solve, to great applause . People were really interested and it was nice to see cubing as entertainment rather than hobby for a change.


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## openseas (Mar 5, 2018)

mark49152 said:


> I disagree. Learning the setups is way easier and way more intuitive than learning 50 OLLs. I learned them in an hour, if that. It's not even fair to compare them to F2L cases, let alone OLLs.



Agree to Mark, not even comparable to 50 OLLs. All corner setups are less than hour effort needed whereas 50 OLL takes days or weeks (months to me). I wouldn't call setups as algs.


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## newtonbase (Mar 5, 2018)

mark49152 said:


> I disagree. Learning the setups is way easier and way more intuitive than learning 50 OLLs. I learned them in an hour, if that. It's not even fair to compare them to F2L cases, let alone OLLs.
> 
> At a work function in Budapest tonight, they laid on some entertainment... drum roll... a former Hungarian champion cuber! I don't recall his name but will look him up. He did some sighted solves and his finale was a theatrical 3 minute BLD solve, to great applause . People were really interested and it was nice to see cubing as entertainment rather than hobby for a change.


Were you tempted to show off? Do your colleagues know much about your hobby?


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## pglewis (Mar 5, 2018)

Sliced a full second off the Ao12, finishing with a high 18 full step. 



Spoiler: Solves



Generated By csTimer on 2018-3-5
solves/total: 12/12

single
best: 18.93
worst: 27.83

mean of 3
current: 22.50 (σ = 3.38)
best: 22.35 (σ = 1.28)

avg of 5
current: 22.76 (σ = 0.44)
best: 22.76 (σ = 0.44)

avg of 12
current: 23.26 (σ = 1.88)
best: 23.26 (σ = 1.88)

Average: 23.26 (σ = 1.88)
Mean: 23.28

Time List:
1. 21.73 F R2 B L2 B R2 F2 U2 R2 L' D2 B2 D' U2 F2 R' U' L' U 
2. 25.77 L2 U F2 L D2 B D2 F L2 B2 U' R2 D' L2 D' L2 D2 R2 L 
3. 21.32 L2 D2 B2 L' F2 R' B2 D2 F2 D2 L2 B U R2 U' L' F L2 U L F 
4. 25.86 D' U' B2 L2 D2 U L2 R2 U' L U B F2 U L' D B U2 F2 R' 
5. 27.83 L2 F D R2 U' R2 U' L' F R2 U2 D2 B' U2 D2 B D2 L2 F 
6. 20.87 R2 B2 R2 B2 U2 L F2 D2 B2 R2 F R2 D B' R U F2 L U' 
7. 23.08 L2 D' L2 F2 R2 U R2 B2 U R2 D F U F2 R' B' L D2 F L2 R 
8. 23.11 F2 U2 F' L B' D' F' U D2 R' F2 D B2 L2 D' R2 U B2 D L2 
9. 22.27 R2 F2 U2 B2 R' D2 L2 R F2 L2 U' B' L2 F2 U' R' F L' F' L' 
10. 25.66 U2 L2 U' B2 R2 U' R2 B2 L2 B2 D2 B R' F' U R U R B D' 
11. 22.90 B2 F2 U B2 R2 B2 F2 D' L2 U F U' F D F' L U B L2 B' 
12. 18.93 R' D2 F2 U L2 R2 D R2 D' L2 F' R D' U R' F2 U2 L B2


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## mark49152 (Mar 5, 2018)

newtonbase said:


> Were you tempted to show off? Do your colleagues know much about your hobby?


No I never talk about it at work, except I did tell one guy after the event. Showing off usually backfires with cubing anyway


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## newtonbase (Mar 6, 2018)

mark49152 said:


> No I never talk about it at work, except I did tell one guy after the event. Showing off usually backfires with cubing anyway


My workmates are probably sick of me talking about cubes. Our last get together was in the café at Saintsbury's.


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## h2f (Mar 6, 2018)

mark49152 said:


> I disagree. Learning the setups is way easier and way more intuitive than learning 50 OLLs. I learned them in an hour, if that. It's not even fair to compare them to F2L cases, let alone OLLs.





openseas said:


> Agree to Mark, not even comparable to 50 OLLs. All corner setups are less than hour effort needed whereas 50 OLL takes days or weeks (months to me). I wouldn't call setups as algs.



Guys, I dont talk about learning but making all algs really fast. This setups needs fingertricks etc. in the same manner as you do speedsolve. I was using it long ago, but they become faster when I started thinking about them as one whole thing not made of pieces: setup+Yperm+undo. And my 50 algs is made for a comparison to 3style 800 algs. In fact it's not 800, its not even a half because of seutups, patterns etc. The image 50 vs 800 shows tons of solves one needs to be really good at 3style. The idea of commutator it's not hard to understand - 2 years ago me and my friend explained it to one guy 15 minutes before FMC attempt. And he did 28. But all you need is to make it really fluent.


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## Mike Hughey (Mar 6, 2018)

I agree that this is true to make the algs really fast. But pretty much all of us in this thread aren't fast enough at BLD for that to really matter. Even when I was averaging around 1:00 for 3BLD (I'm closer to 1:45 now, I'm afraid - I've gone way downhill), my 3style algs were really bad and slow. But I could visualize them quickly and with no difficulty, and that was plenty good enough for a sub-minute 3BLD solve. You only really need to worry about fingertricks and such when you're going for sub-40 or maybe even sub-30.

Admittedly, though, if your goal is to eventually become world-class, it does mean you need to be aiming at fingertrickable algs. But if you're aiming for world class, you'll probably need to be doing 3style.


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## mark49152 (Mar 6, 2018)

The other argument against treating M2/OP as 50 algs is that cancellations and thinkahead are also important when you're trying to get fast, especially for M2. Also finding the most efficient ways to combine adjacent targets. In that sense it can be compared to F2L where a fluid, efficient solution usually wins out over spamming.

For OP, as Mike said and as came up a page or two ago, it's a waste of time practising fingertricks for solutions of 15-19 moves per piece. That effort is better directed at learning to solve with 4-7 moves per piece.

It's also unfair to characterise 3style as "800 algs" even if technically correct. In practice the major part of the benefit is in corners, which comprise 378 (?) comms that can be learned as setups to maybe a dozen core cases, and half are inverses anyway. Again that is much faster and easier to embed than say 378 ZBLLs.


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## h2f (Mar 6, 2018)

For me alg is alg no matter if it's hard or easy to learn. My comparison in this thread is to courage other guys. As Mike wrote - we are not fast blinders but my point is that othes who started 3bld dont need to learn nothing more than OP to become for example sub2 solvers. That's all.


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## h2f (Mar 6, 2018)

mark49152 said:


> For OP, as Mike said and as came up a page or two ago, it's a waste of time practising fingertricks for solutions of 15-19 moves per piece. That effort is better directed at learning to solve with 4-7 moves per piece.



Let's start counting efficiency taking not moves but time for execution of the alg (including imagining and doing). In this point of view OP is much efficient for many of us. During comps only times matters, not a style.


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## JanW (Mar 6, 2018)

If the goal is to encourage people, why talk about 50 algs? Just say you can get fast with a handful of algs+setup moves. That's a lot more encouraging, and also apparently how most people see it.


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## SpartanSailor (Mar 6, 2018)

One Wheel said:


> I think I have to agree with @pglewis here. When I'm doing OP corners I use multiple combinations of setup moves, and I don't think of it in the same way as I think of algorithms at all. For example, R2 D' setup vs. F2 D: they set up the same sticker, but use different moves. I would consider the Y-perm the single alg, with setup moves before and after.


I agree. When I started learning 3BLD in January, I discovered I only needed two algs for OP/OP. T-perm and y-perm. I already knew those. I was pleased and happy NOT to learn 50 new algs. In fact, I saw some tutorials that listed every setup-return as algs for every position on the cube. That was just too much for me. I visualise moving the piece to the swapping location, then move it back to its home position.

Sure, those are algs, but for me... I didn’t have to learn new algs and that was a huge relief. Still had to learn lettering scheme and figure out how to DO it, but it helped a lot to reduce what I needed to learn. I’m NOT efficient nor am I fast. I may eventually swap to M2 for edges, but even 5 algs at this point is not something I’m interested to learn. 

I don’t use algs on bigger cubes to solve the Center pieces... intuitive and trial-error. I’m slow with those as well. And for now, for me, that’s okay. 

I’m sure after I get an official success, I’ll be interested to learn M2.


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## SpartanSailor (Mar 6, 2018)

mark49152 said:


> The other argument against treating M2/OP as 50 algs is that cancellations and thinkahead are also important when you're trying to get fast, especially for M2. Also finding the most efficient ways to combine adjacent targets. In that sense it can be compared to F2L where a fluid, efficient solution usually wins out over spamming.
> 
> For OP, as Mike said and as came up a page or two ago, it's a waste of time practising fingertricks for solutions of 15-19 moves per piece. That effort is better directed at learning to solve with 4-7 moves per piece.
> 
> It's also unfair to characterise 3style as "800 algs" even if technically correct. In practice the major part of the benefit is in corners, which comprise 378 (?) comms that can be learned as setups to maybe a dozen core cases, and half are inverses anyway. Again that is much faster and easier to embed than say 378 ZBLLs.


When I hear someone say it takes 800 algs, it’s overwhelming to say the least. When someone breaks it down like this, it’s not so scary and far more reasonable. 

If the goal is to encourage people to use a method, I believe a more reasonable explaination of what is involved is necessary. Just saying, “800 algs, but they’re easy” is daunting no matter what... Even if that is technically correct. My brain is going to reorganise those into fewer anyway...


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## mitja (Mar 6, 2018)

Well, if I think about it, I only use one alg and reversed alg for M2 , that's FU and BD. All the rest are avoided by advanced M2, the same goes for advanced U2 +centres and xcentres, ( with wings there is one more-BUl).
My problem with BLD was, that OP edges looked far too long to me, so I gave up at the beginning. Then, after half a year, I looked into M2 and got encouraged again. Just went straight to it, learned those 5 algs and now even not all 5 are needed.


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## mitja (Mar 6, 2018)

Talking about BLD. Can you guys recommend me the source with a nice demonstration and explanation of 3-cycle corners? I watched some demos of what comms look like, but that is not enough for me to understand how the comms should be built by me. For edges and M2 it is understandable,but how to build 3-cycles for corners? That's another story How did any of you approach 3-style corners? Should I start with Orozco BLD?


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## pglewis (Mar 6, 2018)

1/3 on coffee shop 3bld. 1: success, 2: one flipped edge, 3: _completely_ forgot corner memo (and edges weren't even right when I gave up and looked).


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## SpartanSailor (Mar 6, 2018)

pglewis said:


> 1/3 on coffee shop 3bld. 1: success, 2: one flipped edge, 3: _completely_ forgot corner memo (and edges weren't even right when I gave up and looked).


Coffee shop practice is all the rage these days! 

Well done.


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## Shaky Hands (Mar 6, 2018)

mark49152 said:


> My bag just got flagged at airport security and they pulled out my cube. "Rubik's cube? WHY?! It's the most annoying thing ever invented!"



I remember being one of about 30 cubers going through Eurostar security at the same time when travelling from London to Paris for last year's World Championship. I'm sure we bemused the X-ray staff quite a bit indeed!


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## pglewis (Mar 6, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> Coffee shop practice is all the rage these days!
> 
> Well done.



Yeah, now that I'm registered for Dixon I need to be ready for official 3bld about a month earlier than I'd originally planned. Gonna be a lot of coffee shop practice for me.


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## JanW (Mar 6, 2018)

Today I've been playing with my bldtrainer, trying to figure out why I DNF so much. It seems I have a tendency to shoot certain edge cycles in the wrong direction. Gotta get rid of that habit! Once I noticed the usual suspects and started concentrating more, accuracy improved a lot. Accuracy on single edge cycles, that is. In total I did well over a hundred edge cycles, average time/cycle was just under 10s. This does also include the time it takes me to locate the stickers. In a real solve I don't need to do that, did it already during inspection, so while solving I use way less than 10s/cycle.

Next I should do similar work with corners. And I really should do some concentrated work on some of the more tricky edge stickers. In particular I should think through all cases including RU or BU. Just last week I noticed that the OLL alg R U R' U' M' U R U' r' (and inverse) is superb to handle many of those cases that are tricky with my normal system.


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## newtonbase (Mar 6, 2018)

mitja said:


> Talking about BLD. Can you guys recommend me the source with a nice demonstration and explanation of 3-cycle corners? I watched some demos of what comms look like, but that is not enough for me to understand how the comms should be built by me. For edges and M2 it is understandable,but how to build 3-cycles for corners? That's another story How did any of you approach 3-style corners? Should I start with Orozco BLD?


There's nothing great that I know of. Noah has a go at explaining it and Ollie Frost has a video with some basic comms that can be built on. The one that helped me understand comms the most is actually Daniel Sheppard's 4BLD centres video.


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## mark49152 (Mar 6, 2018)

h2f said:


> alg is alg no matter if it's hard or easy to learn.


Technically that is true at some level. Kind of like fruit is fruit, no matter if it's pineapple or blueberry.


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## pglewis (Mar 6, 2018)

Obviously there are at least two contexts with subtle differences when we're saying "an alg":

1) A highly vague metric for "how much crap I need to memorize" and thus how much "work" a method or substep will be to learn. 

2) A series of moves you have (or want to have) in muscle memory

In the first context for OP/OP it might just be the parity alg. Just about anyone going in knows the base algs already from PLL and the concept of setup moves can be figured out in a few hours, leisurely. 

After Mark pointed out cancellations, the alg count for the second context technically would have to be way higher than 50.


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## SpartanSailor (Mar 6, 2018)

@pglewis i am in camp #1. For me... muscle memory comes with practice. 

When I think of an alg, I think of a new (to me) pattern that is necessary or useful to more quickly solve the cube. 

For example F2L. I’ve never even tried to learn algs. Now, if I write out my solution for a given pair/setup, sure that’s an alg. But I don’t think “R U R’ F’....” during F2L. I just do what I’ve learned thru trial and error to pair up my edge and corner then slot them. On the other hand, at this point I couldn’t write out the moves for a T-perm, but I definitely studied and learned that specific alg to be more efficient and speedy when solving my last layer. It is DEFINITElY part of an alg set. I’ve just burned it into muscle memory and don’t need think about it... however, if you asked me how to solve an F2L pair, I couldn’t tell you a single move. I’d just have to do it. 

I guess that’s easentially the same thing after all. I suppose the difference, for me, is in how I learn it.


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## pglewis (Mar 6, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> On the other hand, at this point I couldn’t write out the moves for a T-perm [...]



Heh, not only can I not write out my PLLs occasionally I'll make the mistake of thinking instead of going straight into an alg and I literally have to AUF away and then back to reboot.


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## SpartanSailor (Mar 7, 2018)

A little accountability for myself... 3BLD practice. 

1/4. But it’s better than it seems. The first was a mess. Forgot my memo early into execution and just tried to salvage what I could. The next two were the same error... poor tracing and left 1 edge piece flipped in position. In both attempts, I just missed it. On my 4th attempt, I got it. 

The other part that is good... I got 4 attempts in about 35 mins or so. I didn’t time them, just noted the time when I began and ended. That means I’m still at/or around sub-10min times. I don’t feel rushed at this pace and AM very consciously taking my time. My errors I can continue to work on... 

On the whole, I feel decent about tonite’s practice. Still have 25 more days to prepare for Charleston.


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## newtonbase (Mar 7, 2018)

Got my first sub 10 min 4BLD DNF. 6 centres off. Centres do seem to be my weakest area. I make far to many errors despite the memo being pretty easy.


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## Logiqx (Mar 7, 2018)

Talking about algs, I've decided to make my website public after making a few tweaks recently:

https://www.speedsolving.com/forum/threads/reactive-website-for-my-cubing-algs.68446/

I've recently been through all of my OLLs and COLLs (OH and 2H) and changed a few of my algs.

If anyone hasn't tried my website then please take a look and let me know what you think.


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## Jason Green (Mar 7, 2018)

Logiqx said:


> Talking about algs, I've decided to make my website public after making a few tweaks recently:
> 
> https://www.speedsolving.com/forum/threads/reactive-website-for-my-cubing-algs.68446/
> 
> ...


It looks really cool! If I ever spend more time on two sided PLL recognition I may use it.


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## Logiqx (Mar 7, 2018)

Jason Green said:


> It looks really cool! If I ever spend more time on two sided PLL recognition I may use it.



PLL recognition was the product of a weeks worth of commuting by train.


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## phreaker (Mar 7, 2018)

h2f said:


> Yes. I count an alg for a single target made of seutp+Y/Jperm+undo setup as a single alg. This leads to 21 algs for corners, and 22 for edges + algs for flips (few) + parity. This makes around 50 algs.



I don't memorize flips/twists, I do those as two target shoots today. (Crass, but it works.) The setups and tear downs, are all really pattern based. I don't think "What is the O alg." I think "How do I move the O sticker to the right spot." So it is more like intuitive F2L for me. I also use no J perms in my OP corners.

So for me... not many algs .


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## phreaker (Mar 7, 2018)

BLD progress: I usually only get 1-2 attempts a day. (Too much other mental load right now.)

That said, my memo is getting more and more solid, and I'm starting to push on it. Execution is starting to become automatic, to the degree where I think I'm making mistakes, and I'm not. (Which is a really strange feeling.)

But that said... I'm opening my eyes to more and more solved cubes. Now to find a good blindfold... I don't know where mine went!


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## Shaky Hands (Mar 7, 2018)

Logiqx said:


> PLL recognition was the product of a weeks worth of commuting by train.



Yeah, I've seen benefits from the time I've put into this. Usually if I notice I'm glancing too much around the cube to determine which case it in then I conclude I need to have a better recognition of the case. More specifically, I've recently fully sussed out 2-sided recognition for T vs Ra, and am also trying to make my 2-sided recognition of Gc vs Rb quicker than it is now.


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## JanW (Mar 7, 2018)

I'm pretty happy with my PLL recognition. Depending on the case and the angle I see the cube, I can mostly tell from two sides, sometimes I need to glance at a third one. But that's not slowing it down very much. I have much more to improve when it comes to OLL recognition. All those cases with two adjacent edges oriented, I learned to recognize with the oriented edges L and B. I find that I'm doing way too many unnecessary AUFs as I often turn U layer to that position, then undo the U move to solve the thing. These extra moves take a lot more time than it takes to glance at a 3rd side during PLL. I'm doing less of them the more I solve, but really should get rid of them completely.


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## pglewis (Mar 7, 2018)

JanW said:


> I'm pretty happy with my PLL recognition. Depending on the case and the angle I see the cube, I can mostly tell from two sides, sometimes I need to glance at a third one. But that's not slowing it down very much. I have much more to improve when it comes to OLL recognition. All those cases with two adjacent edges oriented, I learned to recognize with the oriented edges L and B. I find that I'm doing way too many unnecessary AUFs as I often turn U layer to that position, then undo the U move to solve the thing. These extra moves take a lot more time than it takes to glance at a 3rd side during PLL. I'm doing less of them the more I solve, but really should get rid of them completely.



This is me, exactly. 2-sided PLL still needs some work, I still auto-U2 for some cases out of laziness. But OLL recog is a much bigger drain on my longer averages, especially the L cases for edges.


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## openseas (Mar 7, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> On the whole, I feel decent about tonite’s practice. Still have 25 more days to prepare for Charleston.



Last week, met Vanessa (Dylan's mom) & talked about you  looking forward to meeting you there!



newtonbase said:


> The one that helped me understand comms the most is actually Daniel Sheppard's 4BLD centres video.





newtonbase said:


> Got my first sub 10 min 4BLD DNF. 6 centres off. Centres do seem to be my weakest area. I make far to many errors despite the memo being pretty easy.



Just checked his 4BLD center tutorial, actually, it is quite good!
So far, I've got 5 sub 10 attempt but only one success. 4 sub 10 dnfs were close but looks like my execution is quite slow - close to 1:1. I still need to drill a lot of center comms (mines are U2 heavy, really inefficient) but not for this week (or next week for that matters :-()


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## mitja (Mar 7, 2018)

newtonbase said:


> There's nothing great that I know of. Noah has a go at explaining it and Ollie Frost has a video with some basic comms that can be built on. The one that helped me understand comms the most is actually Daniel Sheppard's 4BLD centres video.


thanks, I did check Noah and Oliver, and i do understand the concept. I read about BH here on forum, I understand the theory, but to get into practical application is hard. I will check Daniel's videos today.


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## SpartanSailor (Mar 8, 2018)

openseas said:


> Last week, met Vanessa (Dylan's mom) & talked about you  looking forward to meeting you there!


You will know me... I’ll be the other old guy competing. Ha! 

I’m looking forward to meeting you as well.


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## Mike Hughey (Mar 8, 2018)

I feel like expressing some frustration today, and this seems like a good place to do it. I feel like I'm an old dog that can't learn new tricks. I've been trying for a while now for 3x3x3 BLD to switch to memorizing edges with audio loop and corners with images. Well, I'm not really just trying anymore; I've done nothing but this for 8 months or so, so I've completely switched - I probably couldn't go the other way if I tried. But I just can't get consistent with it like I was before when I put corners in audio and edges in images. If I get an easy 10/6 scramble, I generally have not too much trouble, but if I get something with 14 targets for edges, it becomes completely hopeless - it takes me a minute or more to pack it such that I can remember the audio loop. I can't remember the first part of the loop well enough while constructing the rest of it, and the whole thing is sufficiently long that it takes too many times repeating it before it actually makes sense as a sound that I can remember.

Anyone have any suggestions for how I might get better at it? It's so frustrating - I was pretty good at this at one time, but now I'm just terrible. I can still do big cubes BLD and multi pretty tolerably, but 3x3x3 BLD is just hopeless. :-(


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## newtonbase (Mar 8, 2018)

Mike Hughey said:


> I feel like expressing some frustration today, and this seems like a good place to do it. I feel like I'm an old dog that can't learn new tricks. I've been trying for a while now for 3x3x3 BLD to switch to memorizing edges with audio loop and corners with images. Well, I'm not really just trying anymore; I've done nothing but this for 8 months or so, so I've completely switched - I probably couldn't go the other way if I tried. But I just can't get consistent with it like I was before when I put corners in audio and edges in images. If I get an easy 10/6 scramble, I generally have not too much trouble, but if I get something with 14 targets for edges, it becomes completely hopeless - it takes me a minute or more to pack it such that I can remember the audio loop. I can't remember the first part of the loop well enough while constructing the rest of it, and the whole thing is sufficiently long that it takes too many times repeating it before it actually makes sense as a sound that I can remember.
> 
> Anyone have any suggestions for how I might get better at it? It's so frustrating - I was pretty good at this at one time, but now I'm just terrible. I can still do big cubes BLD and multi pretty tolerably, but 3x3x3 BLD is just hopeless. :-(


Are you using any kind of rhythm with the words? I like to say them like they are a ditty or the first 2 lines of a limerick


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## Mike Hughey (Mar 8, 2018)

newtonbase said:


> Are you using any kind of rhythm with the words? I like to say them like they are a ditty or the first 2 lines of a limerick


I definitely never tried that. I guess I could give it a try.


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## One Wheel (Mar 9, 2018)

newtonbase said:


> Are you using any kind of rhythm with the words? I like to say them like they are a ditty or the first 2 lines of a limerick


A sing-song rhythm or simple melody is fantastic for memorizing, in general. I've memorized quite a few bible verses that way. Hearing people quote bible verses to the tune of popular country songs is hilarious, btw.


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## mark49152 (Mar 9, 2018)

@Mike Hughey : I empathise because I often feel stuck these days.

Rhythm certainly helps, as does comedy. For tricky sounds I often imagine Lt Worf spitting then out in exaggerated Klingon. 

Pushing yourself with harder tasks also helps. I use audio for 4BLD centres, which is about 50% more to remember. I'm obviously slower with that, but when I go back to 3BLD, audio edges feels easier.


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## Mike Hughey (Mar 9, 2018)

mark49152 said:


> @Mike Hughey : I empathise because I often feel stuck these days.
> 
> Rhythm certainly helps, as does comedy. For tricky sounds I often imagine Lt Worf spitting then out in exaggerated Klingon.
> 
> Pushing yourself with harder tasks also helps. I use audio for 4BLD centres, which is about 50% more to remember. I'm obviously slower with that, but when I go back to 3BLD, audio edges feels easier.


I've been fearful of trying audio for 4BLD centers. I figure expanding 3BLD audio went really badly, and I don't want to mess up another event. It kind of scares me to try.


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## mark49152 (Mar 9, 2018)

Mike Hughey said:


> I've been fearful of trying audio for 4BLD centers. I figure expanding 3BLD audio went really badly, and I don't want to mess up another event. It kind of scares me to try.


Fortune favours the brave....


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## pglewis (Mar 10, 2018)

A random F2L alg for a change of pace. Case: corner solved in BR slot, F2L edge in the U layer, edge in the slot is misoriented. This would be the sledge - R U R' solution in the FR. Meets all the criteria I was looking for: no B face turns or rotations, 100% functionally equivalent to the solution from the front, still 7 HTM. Obviously can easily mirror for the BL slot. 

Lw U' R' U Lw' U' R


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## pglewis (Mar 10, 2018)

And one more that I picked up from @JanW a while back that I think is buried gold. Same case as sledge - R U R' but you'd rather preserve EO. I don't think I've ever seen this one listed and it flows much better for me than the typical R/U solution (starting the F' move with the thumb from the bottom). It's also executed from the same AUF as the sledge based solution so I can AUF before I know the EO situation. No great translation for back slots yet (currently I either rotate or just do the one from the previous post, EO be damned).

F' - sexy - R' F R


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## JanW (Mar 10, 2018)

pglewis said:


> And one more that I picked up from @JanW a while back that I think is buried gold. Same case as sledge - R U R' but you'd rather preserve EO. I don't think I've ever seen this one listed and it flows much better for me than the typical R/U solution (starting the F' move with the thumb from the bottom). It's also executed from the same AUF as the sledge based solution so I can AUF before I know the EO situation. No great translation for back slots yet (currently I either rotate or just do the one from the previous post, EO be damned).
> 
> F' - sexy - R' F R


Yeah, I really like that one. I found it by mistake when I didn't remember one of my COLL algs and happened to do that instead. Have used it since. 

It seems you can find it in algdb, though it's not very high on the list.


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## mark49152 (Mar 10, 2018)

My progress on MBLD has been pretty slow. I started shooting for 20 cubes last July and this is still only my 9th or 10th attempt, and first since January. I wish I could find more opportunities for an uninterrupted hour to practise!


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## openseas (Mar 10, 2018)

Completed today's event
3BLD, really bad. After 7 official DNF, really went safe & slow, mid 2 min success.

Multi, worst ever,. 2/8, messed up lots of comms.

333: didn't expect much so consistent 26, no complaint s

5BLD, one attempt - mixed one x-center comm

4BLD, two attempts, 11:01 DNF, 13:19 success. Long way to go sub 10 but first podium together with my son


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## pglewis (Mar 10, 2018)

mark49152 said:


> My progress on MBLD has been pretty slow. I started shooting for 20 cubes last July and this is still only my 9th or 10th attempt, and first since January. I wish I could find more opportunities for an uninterrupted hour to practise!



Heh, SkyNet er.. the YouTube algorithms already found me with that one. Not far at all from reaching memo/accuracy equilibrium under an hour now, obvious immediate disappointment aside.


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## Logiqx (Mar 10, 2018)

pglewis said:


> F' - sexy - R' F R



The inverse of that alg is my default.


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## newtonbase (Mar 10, 2018)

@Mike Hughey @mark49152 I do audio centres too but I sometimes think that the number of reviews it takes might mean I'm better off with visual or maybe a mix. I'd do some analysis if I had time. 3BLD edges is usually 1 pass or maybe a quick recitation halfway through. Maybe I just need a bit more practice.


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## newtonbase (Mar 10, 2018)

openseas said:


> 4BLD, two attempts, 11:01 DNF, 13:19 success. Long way to go sub 10 but first podium together with my son


Well done @openseas. I'll bet there aren't many podiums spanning more than 1 generation of the same family.


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## Mike Hughey (Mar 11, 2018)

newtonbase said:


> Well done @openseas. I'll bet there aren't many podiums spanning more than 1 generation of the same family.


Sorry - I know it's a silly event, but I have to brag. 
https://www.worldcubeassociation.org/competitions/DaytonFall2011/results/all#emmagic

My daughters were 10 and 12 at the time.

But that being said, I agree: @openseas - yours is a legitimate event. Congratulations on sharing a podium with your son.


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## newtonbase (Mar 11, 2018)

Mike Hughey said:


> Sorry - I know it's a silly event, but I have to brag.
> https://www.worldcubeassociation.org/competitions/DaytonFall2011/results/all#emmagic
> 
> My daughters were 10 and 12 at the time.
> ...


That's very cool.


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## openseas (Mar 11, 2018)

Mike Hughey said:


> Sorry - I know it's a silly event, but I have to brag.
> https://www.worldcubeassociation.org/competitions/DaytonFall2011/results/all#emmagic
> 
> My daughters were 10 and 12 at the time.



Wow, that’s so magical!!!

I knew you probably have some family podium experiences!

BTW, I know a family who has done that last year: Donna & Ivan - Mom and Son couple


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## h2f (Mar 11, 2018)

Congrats @openseas.


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## pglewis (Mar 11, 2018)

Still have my sights set on a new 3x3 single... just missed. 16.98, unplanned x-cross, bowtie, J-Perm


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## JanW (Mar 12, 2018)

I bumped into another interesting F2L-alg yesterday, one that I couldn't find in algdb: L'-Sune-L. I've used L2 U2 L U L' U L2 to solve from that same position. It's shorter and a bit faster for me to perform, but it's not very good for lookahead with all those L2 moves. The neat thing with L'-sune-L is also that it preserves the pair in the FL slot, which could come in handy.

An alternative way of using the same basic alg is Sune-R'-U2'-R (R-U-R'-U-R-U2-R2-U2-R). Not as much of a fan of this version though. But again it preserves the pair currently in the slot you are inserting to.


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## openseas (Mar 12, 2018)

h2f said:


> Congrats @openseas.



Thanks!
Out of curiosity, tried to check family podium through WCA dB but since family relationship is not included, not possible. So, I tried to get just same last name podiums, then, Asian culture - family name first sequence, makes it also impossible to do that. I guess WCA needs to clean up a little bit (just separate first and last name). L


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## SpartanSailor (Mar 13, 2018)

@openseas congrats! I may have to pick your brain in charleston... while I can get immediate feedback. But not until AFTER the comp. I don’t want to distract you and your son during prep time. 

@JanW that will be some good F2L work for me when I get around to it. I haven’t spent a lot of time optimising my F2L. Rather, I’ve just worked on my look ahead to improve tracking pieces from pair NOT currently being solved. 

Lately, I’ve been distracted with some 5x5. My buddy seems to like it. He was asking me some questions and ever since, I’ve been trying various methods. I’ve tried yau 5 and subtle variations on the same. Trying to determine which is more efficient for me—(1) solving the cross edges, then 2 F2L edges within the next 4 and inserting those to the rear slots before finishing; or (2) cross edges, ANY four edges using free slicing followed by the remaining 4 edges. 

In both cases, I’ve found that i make fewer errors with the parity alg when I do it AFTER F2L. Meaning, I see it and still do F2L before fixing it. Then go on to OLL/PLL. 

How do you guys go about 5x5? Pure reduction, yau 5, other...???


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## Mike Hughey (Mar 13, 2018)

I'm definitely pure reduction, actually AvG on 5x5x5. Lately I'm trying once again to get better at freeslice, but I've never been able to get quite as fast with it as with AvG. At my best I was averaging about 2:10 globally; now I'm slower, around 2:25 with AvG and 2:45 with freeslice.

I really believe AvG can be equally fast to other methods on 5x5x5; it's just when you go to 6x6x6 and beyond that freeslice is clearly better than AvG. If you look at how fast Erik Akkersdijk was with 5x5x5 using AvG with really bad hardware back in the early days, I think it's hard to say AvG is a bad method for 5x5x5.

I admit I haven't looked enough into other methods like yau5 to have an opinion on them.


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## SpartanSailor (Mar 13, 2018)

Mike Hughey said:


> I'm definitely pure reduction, actually AvG on 5x5x5. Lately I'm trying once again to get better at freeslice, but I've never been able to get quite as fast with it as with AvG. At my best I was averaging about 2:10 globally; now I'm slower, around 2:25 with AvG and 2:45 with freeslice.
> 
> I really believe AvG can be equally fast to other methods on 5x5x5; it's just when you go to 6x6x6 and beyond that freeslice is clearly better than AvG. If you look at how fast Erik Akkersdijk was with 5x5x5 using AvG with really bad hardware back in the early days, I think it's hard to say AvG is a bad method for 5x5x5.
> 
> I admit I haven't looked enough into other methods like yau5 to have an opinion on them.


Right. I wouldn’t say I’m using any “pure” method at this point. I tend to do the white cross colours first, but that’s mainly because they are easy to see. After that, I don’t think I’ve come to any decision about methods. I tend to do what works in that moment. But sometimes I get “burned” and do the F2L slots in the rear and after fixing parity they are all jacked up—meaning taking the time to place them was wasted. However, filling the rear slots with ANY solved edge seems to assistg look ahead by reducing the possible locations. Of course, after that I don’t do freealice at all. 

You’re lightyears ahead of me. I couldn’t even claim a global on 5x5, but 4:30-4:40 is probably fair to say. That said, I’m not the speediest cuber our there. I bet with a little focus and some improved hardware (using cyclone boys) I could get below 4 min pretty consistently.


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## Mike Hughey (Mar 13, 2018)

Someone recently mentioned that big cubes are all about spamming practice. If you do lots of solves, you'll get faster, almost no matter what you do.

Somehow I've always loved solving big cubes. If I want to do something mindless, I solve a 5x5x5 or a 7x7x7. I've always preferred odds to evens, too.

I'm REALLY REALLY looking forward to getting a decent modern 7x7x7 and 5x5x5. I get my new cubes just two days from now!!! :-D


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## One Wheel (Mar 13, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> How do you guys go about 5x5? Pure reduction, yau 5, other...???



I've used Yau (without inserting F2L pairs before finishing edge pairing), reduction with edge parity forced to the last layer (which I use on 6x6), and reduction (freeslice) with edge parity at the end of edge pairing. I like the flow and ability to take advantage of lucky cases in the latter.


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## SpartanSailor (Mar 13, 2018)

Mike Hughey said:


> Someone recently mentioned that big cubes are all about spamming practice. If you do lots of solves, you'll get faster, almost no matter what you do.
> 
> Somehow I've always loved solving big cubes. If I want to do something mindless, I solve a 5x5x5 or a 7x7x7. I've always preferred odds to evens, too.
> 
> I'm REALLY REALLY looking forward to getting a decent modern 7x7x7 and 5x5x5. I get my new cubes just two days from now!!! :-D


I definitely can tell just some regular solving has made huge improvements in a short time. But that is to be expected when it’s a relatively new puzzle—I “can” solve bigger cubes, but don’t regularly. 



One Wheel said:


> I've used Yau (without inserting F2L pairs before finishing edge pairing), reduction with edge parity forced to the last layer (which I use on 6x6), and reduction (freeslice) with edge parity at the end of edge pairing. I like the flow and ability to take advantage of lucky cases in the latter.



Do you find that with a little “planning” you can see and fix parity before it occurs? Sometimes I feel like I can see the parity and do an edge pairing to flip the edge and allow for a parity free final edge... of course, that could just be a parity free solve and not necessarily due to what i “think” I’m doing.


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## Jason Green (Mar 13, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> @openseas congrats! I may have to pick your brain in charleston... while I can get immediate feedback. But not until AFTER the comp. I don’t want to distract you and your son during prep time.
> 
> @JanW that will be some good F2L work for me when I get around to it. I haven’t spent a lot of time optimising my F2L. Rather, I’ve just worked on my look ahead to improve tracking pieces from pair NOT currently being solved.
> 
> ...


I do Hoya for 5x5 and 4x4. I don't think it's the best for 5x5, but at the same time I think I can get a lot better before it would matter that I use it. I'm just a little under 3 mins, but there are some decent guys that use it.


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## One Wheel (Mar 13, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> Do you find that with a little “planning” you can see and fix parity before it occurs? Sometimes I feel like I can see the parity and do an edge pairing to flip the edge and allow for a parity free final edge... of course, that could just be a parity free solve and not necessarily due to what i “think” I’m doing.



It's my understanding that edge parity has to do with center configuration. I did a little experiment a while back that is easier to describe than the results: take a solved 7x7, and put 4 or 5 wrong-colored pieces on a face in an asymmetric pattern. Take a picture of that pattern, do a parity alg, and compare the center to the picture of the center before parity.


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## SpartanSailor (Mar 13, 2018)

@One Wheel interesting...


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## Mike Hughey (Mar 13, 2018)

When we were doing 4x4x4 fewest moves on the weekly competition, my goal would be to always remove all parity in the initial centers solve. I don't remember the exact rules, but the idea was: come up with the best possible center solve in about 10 minutes (we had 2.5 hours for the entire solve), then solve it and see if you have parity. If so, go back and make the proper adjustments to the centers solve, possibly adding 2 or 3 moves, so as to remove parity. Then solve the edges with AvG (which is really surprisingly move-efficient when done slowly and carefully), then do an ordinary 3x3x3 fewest moves solve from there to finish, with no parity. I was able to average under 100 moves with that rather simple approach, and without being very good at the time at 3x3x3 FMC. I really wish I remember the details, but I don't right now.


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## SpartanSailor (Mar 13, 2018)

AvG? I’m not familiar with that acronym. I don’t want to miss the point by making a wrong assumption about the meaning. This is the second (or third) time someone referred to it. 

I assume it’s a shorthand for simple reduction or something similar.


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## SpartanSailor (Mar 13, 2018)

Mike Hughey said:


> When we were doing 4x4x4 fewest moves on the weekly competition, my goal would be to always remove all parity in the initial centers solve. I don't remember the exact rules, but the idea was: come up with the best possible center solve in about 10 minutes (we had 2.5 hours for the entire solve), then solve it and see if you have parity. If so, go back and make the proper adjustments to the centers solve, possibly adding 2 or 3 moves, so as to remove parity. Then solve the edges with AvG (which is really surprisingly move-efficient when done slowly and carefully), then do an ordinary 3x3x3 fewest moves solve from there to finish, with no parity. I was able to average under 100 moves with that rather simple approach, and without being very good at the time at 3x3x3 FMC. I really wish I remember the details, but I don't right now.


Not that I’m able to do FMC for ANY sized cube, but I take it to that you are saying if the Center’s are solved “correctly” you can avoid parity in from any initial scramble/configuration? Very interesting. I wasn’t sure what caused the parity, just know it can be annoying when going for speed.


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## Mike Hughey (Mar 13, 2018)

It was named after Arnaud van Galen, an early popularizer of the method, and by the way the originator of our weekly Speedsolving.com online competition!

https://www.speedsolving.com/wiki/index.php/AvG_edge_pairing






I think this is probably it, although I haven't had time to watch it all just now. There are some advanced techniques that can make it really very move efficient, but in general it's just simply 2 at a time edge pairing. A very simplistic method, but you can get quite fast at it. Erik was able to get sub-1 with V-Cubes using it at one point.

Oh, and here's Arnaud himself explaining the basic method:





Once you go to 6x6x6 and above, lucky cases tend to become much more common, and I think that causes AvG to become substantially less efficient. But on 5x5x5 lucky cases tend to be as common for AvG as for freeslice, so I think the benefit mostly vanishes. The main benefit to freeslice is the way the completed edges stay put, so as you go it gets easier because you have fewer edges to check for remaining pieces. But AvG means much less thinking in a lot of ways, and yet can be quite efficient. If you can get your lookahead good enough that you can constant turn with AvG (despite having to occasionally find pieces at the back of the cube), I suspect you could still be world class with it.



SpartanSailor said:


> Not that I’m able to do FMC for ANY sized cube, but I take it to that you are saying if the Center’s are solved “correctly” you can avoid parity in from any initial scramble/configuration? Very interesting. I wasn’t sure what caused the parity, just know it can be annoying when going for speed.


Right. I think at least one of the parities involved using odd vs. even numbers of slice moves to solve the centers. So if you first solved it with 10 moves and then finished the solve and had that type of parity (can't remember if it was OLL or PLL), you could solve the centers with 11 moves and guarantee that parity would go away.


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## h2f (Mar 13, 2018)

Lots of fast youg cubers in Poland made a big progress in last months using Yau5 with f2l-2 before last 4 edges and parity alg after f2l. They are still not faster than Wojtek Knott (NR Holder) and Józek Halczuk (former NR holder) - both using freeslice and reduction - but I think it's a matter of time.


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## mark49152 (Mar 13, 2018)

I use AvG on 5x5 too (with Hoya). I've tried Freeslice but I find the lookahead way more difficult and it doesn't seem significantly more move efficient to me, on 5x5.

On 6x6, I also use Hoya and AvG, pairing the inner edges first then pairing the outer edges like a 5x5. I'm trying to switch to reduction via Freeslice, but I rarely practise 6x6 these days. I'm not sure switching would help my times anyway - I just wanted to get better at Freeslice for fun.


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## SpartanSailor (Mar 13, 2018)

Wow. Pretty quiet day... thanks for the pointers and references for 5x5 edge pairing. I’m still at the point where simple practise will have dramatic improvements in my time.

Back to 3BLD. Did a couple attempts tonite. Got a 6:50 DNF, then a 7:55 success. 

The DNF was technically an execution error. The cube “twisted” in my hands and I had no way of knowing how much and which way. So... essentially just prior to my corners I had a messed up orientation—guaranteed hot mess. I redid the attempt and at least verified my memo was correct. Then, did a second (successful) attempt. 

Still using OP/OP. With three attempts in Charleston, I’m hopeful. I won’t be disappointed any way it goes... 1st comp doing blind, I suspect my nerves will be a factor.


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## xyzzy (Mar 14, 2018)

Mike Hughey said:


> When we were doing 4x4x4 fewest moves on the weekly competition, my goal would be to always remove all parity in the initial centers solve. I don't remember the exact rules, but the idea was: come up with the best possible center solve in about 10 minutes (we had 2.5 hours for the entire solve), then solve it and see if you have parity. If so, go back and make the proper adjustments to the centers solve, possibly adding 2 or 3 moves, so as to remove parity. Then solve the edges with AvG (which is really surprisingly move-efficient when done slowly and carefully), then do an ordinary 3x3x3 fewest moves solve from there to finish, with no parity. I was able to average under 100 moves with that rather simple approach, and without being very good at the time at 3x3x3 FMC. I really wish I remember the details, but I don't right now.


4FMC totally needs to be a thing again. Also, the reason you can influence parity (specifically, OLL parity) during the centres is, interestingly and paradoxically enough, not because of how the centres are solved, but because of how edge pairing is done.


Spoiler: rambly explanation



The usual edge pairing methods we use on big cubes (chain pairing and freeslice) all behave by slicing up the centres, pulling out and reinserting edge groups with outer layer moves only, and eventually realigning all the centre bars. Outer layer moves never affect the permutation parity of the wings, and while separating the centre bars does affect the parity, it'll be restored later anyway. The net effect is that, between the start and the end of the edge pairing phase, the permutation parity doesn't change.

An odd wing permutation manifests as "OLL parity" once edge pairing is done; if you solve the centres in such a way that the wings have even parity, then you're guaranteed to not have "OLL parity" if you use a normal edge pairing method. Influencing the parity of the wings during the centres is just a matter of throwing in an extra quarter slice move somewhere (since that is a 4-cycle of wings—an odd permutation).

Also, since it seems like so many people here are somehow bigbld experts, one conceptually easy way of determining parity is to trace cycles like in bigbld. Even number of targets = even parity; odd number of targets = odd parity. Some people actually trace fast enough that they can determine the parity during inspection and solve the centres to avoid OLL parity every time.


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## SpartanSailor (Mar 14, 2018)

xyzzy said:


> Some people actually trace fast enough that they can determine the parity during inspection and solve the centres to avoid OLL parity every time.



Wow! That would be impressive.


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## Mike Hughey (Mar 14, 2018)

@xyzzy thanks for the awesome explanation! And now that you mention it, I remember having learned that years ago - that you can trace wings to count parity and skip it in inspection. I had forgotten all about that. (Not that I will ever be fast enough to do it.  )


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## newtonbase (Mar 14, 2018)

I'm sure I read somewhere that @Ollie Frost has shown this can be done in inspection time


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## mark49152 (Mar 14, 2018)

@Cale S has done it too. Not sure if he does it every solve.


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## Ollie (Mar 14, 2018)

newtonbase said:


> I'm sure I read somewhere that @Ollie Frost has shown this can be done in inspection time



Hey guys,

Yes, I've done it once in competition and completed Ao12s at home without OLL parity. Obviously doing thousands of 4BLD and 5BLD solves helped. It's stressful, especially during comp inspection, and probably isn't worth it for me at my speed.

With Yau, it's quite fun to execute once you've determined if you have parity or not. You keep a track of the number of half turns you've made right up until you start building your third set of centers, and then correct parity by solving the last two centers with a single Rw or Rw U2 Rw' depending on which state you're in.


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## pglewis (Mar 14, 2018)

I've spread the bug to the couple that lives upstairs. They were amused by my pile of 3x3s and besides my GuHong, AoLongs, and a few others that have vague sentimental value they're just dust collectors so I gladly tossed them one. A few days later it became clear I should get them a second puzzle to avoid cube fights. I've limited my help to just hints and concepts plus edge OLL and sune, they've both figured it out on their own from there... not even sure what they're doing for PLL since I didn't help them there.


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## openseas (Mar 14, 2018)

Jonatan created a new WCA dB related link which makes rankings of your own selected group of people.
I've added all our oldies into that link 

https://jonatanklosko.github.io/ran...1,2017FREG01,2017GRAD03,2017PALI03,2017VIDO02)

While we have our "official" awesome rank link created by Michael (https://github.com/Logiqx/wca-ipy) but in case you wanted to have something updated immediately, you can use the above link (named "Oldies")


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## Eelephant (Mar 14, 2018)

So, I'm heading out to observe my first competition (didn't have the nerve to enter!), to check out the events and vendors. Not that it matters, cuz I'm going anyway, but how out of place will I be? Will there be ANY other graybeards there?


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## CLL Smooth (Mar 14, 2018)

Eelephant said:


> So, I'm heading out to observe my first competition (didn't have the nerve to enter!), to check out the events and vendors. Not that it matters, cuz I'm going anyway, but how out of place will I be? Will there be ANY other graybeards there?


There will be plenty of oldies. All of those kids competeing also have parents there.


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## Mike Hughey (Mar 14, 2018)

Eelephant said:


> So, I'm heading out to observe my first competition (didn't have the nerve to enter!), to check out the events and vendors. Not that it matters, cuz I'm going anyway, but how out of place will I be? Will there be ANY other graybeards there?


Aww, you should have entered! But that's okay; glad you're going.

Whether you will see any other oldies competing there will entirely depend on which competition you're going to. But generally even the kids are very friendly; you have no reason to feel out of place. They might assume you're a parent, but once they see you solving, they'll know you're just a cuber like everyone else .


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## Eelephant (Mar 14, 2018)

Heh! Don't think me and my 3x3 PB of 1 min 39 sec would have made much of an impact on the event!! Maybe next time just for the fun of it...

Didn't even think of the parents! I'll just blend in!

Thanks, all...


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## One Wheel (Mar 14, 2018)

Eelephant said:


> Heh! Don't think me and my 3x3 PB of 1 min 39 sec would have made much of an impact on the event!! Maybe next time just for the fun of it...
> 
> Didn't even think of the parents! I'll just blend in!
> 
> Thanks, all...



Making an impact is overrated. Besides, I'm sure I'm not the only one who usually counts how well I do in terms of how many places up from the bottom I get. Ah well. Enjoy yourself anyway.


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## Mike Hughey (Mar 14, 2018)

Eelephant said:


> Heh! Don't think me and my 3x3 PB of 1 min 39 sec would have made much of an impact on the event!! Maybe next time just for the fun of it...
> 
> Didn't even think of the parents! I'll just blend in!
> 
> Thanks, all...


My wife has a WCA PB single of 1:14.68 and average of 1:31.99 despite attending 10 competitions. Your average is perfectly fine for competing. I do hope you'll compete next time!


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## Eelephant (Mar 14, 2018)

Heh! After watching many videos and reading many posts, it is easy to start believing everybody but me averages sub 20. Thanks for the reality check....


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## One Wheel (Mar 14, 2018)

Eelephant said:


> Heh! After watching many videos and reading many posts, it is easy to start believing everybody but me averages sub 20. Thanks for the reality check....


3 years this month cubing, and I got I think my 3rd or 4th ever sub-20 single last night.


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## Mike Hughey (Mar 14, 2018)

Oh, and after going to the competition you'll likely be very inspired and suddenly get lots faster. Odds are by the next competition, you'll be well sub-minute.


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## openseas (Mar 14, 2018)

Eelephant said:


> Heh! Don't think me and my 3x3 PB of 1 min 39 sec would have made much of an impact on the event!! Maybe next time just for the fun of it...
> 
> Didn't even think of the parents! I'll just blend in!
> 
> Thanks, all...



My first ever official attempt was 2:26. Even though I was averaging 1min back then, solving in front of many people made me nervous enough to shake & screw up here and there. Half way through the solve, realized the cross was not done correctly.
My son and son's friends were all standing in front my station and watched me & laughing - not at me but enjoying a rare scene - one of their parents in the stage competing with them together but suffering with the extreme slow speed. At the end, I've got many complaints (of course, jokes) from many parents since their kids wanted them to learn and compete with them.


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## newtonbase (Mar 14, 2018)

You should have a go at judging @Eelephant It's a great way to get involved and to meet people. Familiarisation with the process will really help when you do compete.


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## SpartanSailor (Mar 14, 2018)

@Eelephant definitely sign up next time. I still sign up for new events that I’m terrible at... and other than 3x3 there are normally limits. I don’t always make the cutoffs, but that doesn’t stop me from having fun! Trust me, you will enjoy it no matter how you do.


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## SpartanSailor (Mar 14, 2018)

I’m super stoked right now too! I just did the weekly comp for 3BLD and got ALL THREE SUCCESS!! 7:33, 8:05, 6:23(or something)! That’s SUPER encouraging right now. Seriously... got them all. I’m beside myself with excitement. Good thing I’m an oldie... I’m cracking out a celebratory beer!


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## mark49152 (Mar 14, 2018)

My last 20 attempt before Guildford on Saturday. It'll be either 18 or 20. Am I ready for 20 in comp? It's a stretch...


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## newtonbase (Mar 14, 2018)

mark49152 said:


> My last 20 attempt before Guildford on Saturday. It'll be either 18 or 20. Am I ready for 20 in comp? It's a stretch...


Well done fixing that error at the end. There's going to be a lot of cubes attempted at the weekend Hope your 20/20 beats the kids.


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## SpartanSailor (Mar 15, 2018)

newtonbase said:


> You should have a go at judging @Eelephant It's a great way to get involved and to meet people. Familiarisation with the process will really help when you do compete.



Great idea!


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## pglewis (Mar 15, 2018)

Eelephant said:


> So, I'm heading out to observe my first competition (didn't have the nerve to enter!), to check out the events and vendors. Not that it matters, cuz I'm going anyway, but how out of place will I be? Will there be ANY other graybeards there?



Depends on where you are. I've been to 4 here in the midwest US and I don't think any competitors have been within 20 years of me; the UK oldie crowd is very active. 



Eelephant said:


> Heh! After watching many videos and reading many posts, it is easy to start believing everybody but me averages sub 20. Thanks for the reality check....



My first three official 3x3 solves were DNF, DNF, and 2:20


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## mark49152 (Mar 15, 2018)

newtonbase said:


> Well done fixing that error at the end. There's going to be a lot of cubes attempted at the weekend Hope your 20/20 beats the kids.


I'm not even going to think about competing with those guys. They are younger, more talented, hungry, and working hard, so good luck to them. I'm sure we'll see some impressive results this weekend and there's a good chance of an NR. I'll be happy with a PB .


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## SpartanSailor (Mar 15, 2018)

Eelephant said:


> Heh! After watching many videos and reading many posts, it is easy to start believing everybody but me averages sub 20. Thanks for the reality check....


Ummmm... not even close. I’ve been Cubing now for 2 years and I’m not sub-20. Not even close. Everyone is different. Some people can practice more or can learn more algorithms faster or have better/worse natural lookahead, etc... One thing I enjoy about Cubing is the point is about ME improving and having fun. Not beating someone else. At comps my son and I will sit with people and chat about whatever comes up. I’m handedly among the slowest, but if i do well for me, everyone shares my excitement. They don’t care how fast (or slowly) I solve the cube. 

If you watch, you might enjoy judging, as was recommended earlier. You will learn about how to compete and reduce your own nerves when you do compete. Also, it really is fun to be involved.


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## Eelephant (Mar 15, 2018)

Thanks, all!


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## Jason Green (Mar 15, 2018)

openseas said:


> Jonatan created a new WCA dB related link which makes rankings of your own selected group of people.
> I've added all our oldies into that link
> 
> https://jonatanklosko.github.io/ran...1,2017FREG01,2017GRAD03,2017PALI03,2017VIDO02)
> ...


That's pretty cool. It looks like you might have missed a couple at least, I'm higher than I should be. 



Eelephant said:


> Heh! After watching many videos and reading many posts, it is easy to start believing everybody but me averages sub 20. Thanks for the reality check....


This is exactly part of what got me hooked into speed cubing. Seeing lots of the kids talk about sub 20 like it wasn't anything at all. At that point I did not believe I could ever really do that, but it did get me curious to see how fast I might get!

I also attended a competition soon after I even learned they were around. I actually emailed Shonathon (one of our TX delegates) to ask if it was OK to bring my kids and watch. I can't recall if I already had learned CFOP by that point or not, but I didn't think competing was an option for sure. I had learned Petrus years earlier but never tried to get fast. Anyway, at that first competition I think everyone thought I was a parent, I didn't interact much (I also had a co-worker with me so we just chatted and I chased kids mostly). But when I went to my first comp in 2016 I fit right in with the kids.  I'll never forget sitting down at a practice table and the kids immediately asking me my PB (something that's happened several times since BTW). Have fun though and compete soon!


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## openseas (Mar 15, 2018)

Jason Green said:


> That's pretty cool. It looks like you might have missed a couple at least, I'm higher than I should be.



Yes, it's possible. Anybody can add those missing names and update. You can even change the title (then need a new link)


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## kbrune (Mar 15, 2018)

@Eelephant tl dr at bottom
I remember when I found out that comps existed. I immediately challenged myself to get to sub 30. Which at the time I wasn't sure I would achieve on a regular basis. Six months later at the first comp I managed a 28.xx average and surprised myself with a 26.xx in the second round.

After that comp I just became obsessed with cubing so I didn't have to challenge myself. The goal of sub 20 was a natural aim. I never thought I could achieve it. 4 years of on and off practice later. I still wasn't consistently a sub 20 solver. I was averaging 20-21 seconds with maybe 20%- 30% of ao5 at sub 20.

Feeling like I had hit a plateau. I never thought I'd be able to consider myself a full on sub 20 solver. Then all of a sudden. With no real change in my method or any new algs added. The dam that had been holding me at 20-21s just collapsed and I was well above 75% of the time at 19.xx averages. Which set me on fire for practicing even more. And now Im consistently averaging 17.5 - 18.5. Cross to first pair was the biggest thing holding me back from being sub 20 all those years btw. And is the #1 thing I still need to improve if im gonna get to 15s average.

Im branching off way too much now lol

TL DR: It took me 5 years or so to be able to consider myself sub 20. If cubing becomes something you deeply enjoy. You will improve out of sheer repetition. because it wont feel like practice.


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## kbrune (Mar 15, 2018)

@mark49152 
I can't begin to say how impressive it is that you can go back and fix a cube you messed up your sequence. Reversing the wrong execution?? wow. My biggest attempt so far was 12 in 1 hour 15 min. And my mind was so cloudy from info retention that I found it difficult to stay on track even just making sure I knew if I was on edges or corners. I managed 9/12 so im hopeful for a successful 12 in the future. 

But my hat's off to you!! Well done!

Question: Do you use a video camera on a tripod to get that angle on your videos?


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## kbrune (Mar 15, 2018)

To all Blinders

Do you ever get brain fatique from frequent practice? I've been preparing for my next comp on March 24th for about 2 months ish now. And I've been feeling more and more brain tired the more I practice. To the point where I do two 3BLD attempts and I need the rest of the day to feel back to normal again. It's hard to describe but it's like my head feels cloudy for a long time after. 

Im weary of doing another large multi attempt since the comp is a week and a half away. I feel like I only have enough brain juice to last one big attempt lol

Not sure if im making any sense but looking to see if others have felt similar and just pushed through it or if you guys just force yourselves to take breaks.


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## h2f (Mar 15, 2018)

kbrune said:


> Do you ever get brain fatique from frequent practice?



Yes. When I feel it I do a rest from 3bld and do other events. In last few weeks I try not to bring my mind to that point and I do only certain amount of 3bld solves during a day.


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## pglewis (Mar 15, 2018)

kbrune said:


> Do you ever get brain fatique from frequent practice?



I can do mindless 3x3 spamming for hours without feeling much fatigue but enough 3bld attempts will definitely get me there. In the discussions here it seems like it becomes less of a problem with experience and practice. I still have to burn some mental calories on certain things that should eventually become more automatic (sticker to speffz, tracing, assigning an image). It's definitely less taxing for me now than it was 8 months ago.


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## pglewis (Mar 15, 2018)

Another rare sub 18 last night, that's two this week. Fastest true full-step yet: 17.65, 6-move T + GPerm. My consistency is a hot mess but my potential is creeping faster, eventually I'll catch a skip during one of my good spells and land one in the 14-16 range. My peak lookahead is still untamed with a mind of its own though.


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## pglewis (Mar 15, 2018)

Eelephant said:


> Heh! After watching many videos and reading many posts, it is easy to start believing everybody but me averages sub 20. Thanks for the reality check....



BTW, 20 second solves seemed unfathomable to me when I was at your stage as well. Learning the ropes of F2L will shave off time fairly quickly with practice, you'll pause a lot less. Then once you get under :50 - :60 you start reaping the benefit of more practice solves during the time you have available. A sub 20 average seemed like a crazy goal when I set it, and I still have a ways to go to get there, but it's a foregone conclusion now if I continue practicing. I moved my goal to a sub 10 average last year because it needed to be crazy again.


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## mark49152 (Mar 15, 2018)

kbrune said:


> @mark49152
> I can't begin to say how impressive it is that you can go back and fix a cube you messed up your sequence. Reversing the wrong execution?? wow. My biggest attempt so far was 12 in 1 hour 15 min. And my mind was so cloudy from info retention that I found it difficult to stay on track even just making sure I knew if I was on edges or corners. I managed 9/12 so im hopeful for a successful 12 in the future.
> 
> But my hat's off to you!! Well done!
> ...


Thanks for the kind words. It's nowhere near as impressive as it sounds though. The wrong memo was XJ OM BD BL G. So all I did to reverse it was execute G LB DB MO JX. Not much more difficult than doing BLD in the first place . 

I use an SJCAM 4000 cheapo Gopro imitation on a mini tripod. The wide angle works well for competition tables.



kbrune said:


> To all Blinders
> 
> Do you ever get brain fatique from frequent practice?


Sometimes. Especially late in the day. Large MBLD attempts are particularly draining so I do them rarely and always allow a few days rest before a comp. The other problem with MBLD is that it takes a while for memo to fade and not contaminate the next attempt, if using the same rooms. If tired, I'll take a break or do something less taxing like comms drills or corners-only solves.


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## Mike Hughey (Mar 15, 2018)

Update on speedsolving: I got my new cubes yesterday! Thank you everyone for the suggestions; they're wonderful. I am now instantly getting better times with freeslice on big cubes than I was getting with AvG with the old cubes, which is pretty amazing. I'm thinking maybe I'll just never go back to AvG, since it doesn't feel so depressing right now that I'm slower with freeslice, since it seems fast now. 

And I got a PB average of 5 on skewb with my very first average of 5 on my new wingy. It was pretty funny. I knew I was being held back by my awful skewb, but I had no idea it was this bad. I suspect I'll be sub-10 within a week.

As for BLD fatigue, I think it's a potential issue for everyone, but I find that pushing through it can make you better at surviving it later. Years ago I started forcing myself to do tons of BLD solves in a row, even though I didn't feel up to it. And the more I did it, the better I was the next day after resting at going a long time. You get used to it and it's not as rough. I still find that to be true; if I've done a bunch of marathon BLD recently, I'm so much better at getting good results on marathon sessions than I am if I haven't done it in a while.

I had pretty much success at Nationals last year despite having mostly not cubed for 2 years by doing about 350 3BLD solves in the 3 weeks leading up to the competition. It was not easy, but it was worth it.


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## kbrune (Mar 15, 2018)

@Mike Hughey 

Did you get a new 4x4?


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## Mike Hughey (Mar 15, 2018)

Yes. My first solves on it weren't quite as fast, but it is definitely a lot nicer. With a little practice, I'm sure I'll be setting new personal records with it too.


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## newtonbase (Mar 15, 2018)

kbrune said:


> Do you ever get brain fatique from frequent practice?


As others have said it is certainly tiring but you do get used to it like you do with physical exercise. Since overdoing it before the World Championships and having shocking results I now avoid actual solves close to competing. I'll do tracing and some execution but no memo. It works for me.


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## newtonbase (Mar 15, 2018)

Got my 2nd 4BLD success of the week today. Was 1s outside my PB at 12:48. Not sure I'm going to get to comfortably under 10 mins by High Wycombe as I was hoping but I'll definitely have time for 2 very careful solves.


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## mark49152 (Mar 16, 2018)

Nice work @newtonbase. That would be a very respectable time for a first official success.


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## SpartanSailor (Mar 16, 2018)

kbrune said:


> Do you ever get brain fatique from frequent practice?


Yes. About an hour and my mind goes to mush... but just like physical exercise, the more you do it the “stronger” you get


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## mitja (Mar 16, 2018)

Hi guys, I was also fighting my 20 sec 3x3 barrier yesterday. My first timed rehearsal after last November. Made new PB single 15.99 full step, average of 5 was still little above 20.53 and my avg of 50 23.06. All my 3x3 results at home are much better then official WCA, but we have another national statistic for Slovenian national results, where I made more comps and results there are better( but not counting for WCA)

I am trying to get my first sub minute 4x4 solve, it was very close 1:00.74, and 1:08.91 AVG of 5. Very happy with 4x4 consistency, especially because I had not been rehearsing for months.

I am mostly rehearsing BLD events this month, preparing for nationals in April( they are WCA open for the first time). I want to do some official results, possible for 4BLD, and very short MBL. 

@newtonbase thanks for that Daniel video tip about comms. Very nice, simple and made me understand them. Now i try them in stages. First one stickered xcentres, +centres, then two stickered wings, edges. Corners are much harder, but I do want to learn them intuitively first. It is also big fun to play with finding comms.
Have one month to nationals, probably I will use advanced M2,U2,r2 for the timed event, but slowly want to switch to comms.
I am still not fast enough in BLD, but very motivated.


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## newtonbase (Mar 16, 2018)

mitja said:


> Corners are much harder, but I do want to learn them intuitively first.


Agreed. I've only learnt 1 corner alg. Finding them is fun.
I got this one yesterday. I doubt it's much use but I like the flow
UBL-DFL-UBR
Rw2 U R2 U' Rw2 D R2 D'


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## Eelephant (Mar 16, 2018)

Ok, I have been inspired and motivated to start tracking solve times and preparing for competitions.. I'm going to talk out loud about my strategy for moving forward, any input from you veterans would be welcome!

Right now I have set PB and Ao5 benchmarks for the 4 WCA events I know how to do. In order to determine which one needs the most work, I am comparing them to the world record Ao5. Like, for instance, my 3x3 Ao5 of 1:50 is approx 18.5 times slower than the WR (not exactly, cuz I didn't enter WR's down to the millisecond). My 2x2 and 4x4 Ao5 are also both within 16.5 and 18.5 times slower than their respective WR's. So, I know I'm fairly equally bad at all three . But the Pyraminx? Atrocious. I am 30 times slower than the WR. I freeze up a lot on the pyraminx. Not sure why, I might just not do it enough. 

So, I plan on drilling the pyraminx until I get it down to the range the other 3 are at (16-19 or so). The question is, what next? Ultimately I would like to add skewb, 5x5, and megaminx (really only cuz I have those three on my shelf, and haven't learned them yet, they came in with my last purchase). So, long term strategy: maybe add one, drill it till it's within the range of the others, then drill them all in rotation till I hit a chosen benchmark on all (say, 15 times slower than WR). Then add another. Lather, rinse, repeat. Does that sound reasonable?

One wrench in the works: when I'll have to learn a new method to break a barrier. Most of my solves are kind of a mishmash of intuition, beginner algs/steps, and the like. When to pull the trigger, bite the bullet and just do it? 

And then, just going to have to accept the fact that the going will be slow, cuz I won't be able to lay off the non-WCA puzzles entirely, just learning a solve for the fun of it. For instance, I'm pretty sure my next purchase/project is going to be a 3x3 mirror. I really dig the 2x2 mirror. 

Anyway, just talking out loud... thanks!


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## One Wheel (Mar 16, 2018)

Eelephant said:


> Right now I have set PB and Ao5 benchmarks for the 4 WCA events I know how to do. In order to determine which one needs the most work, I am comparing them to the world record Ao5. Like, for instance, my 3x3 Ao5 of 1:50 is approx 18.5 times slower than the WR (not exactly, cuz I didn't enter WR's down to the millisecond). My 2x2 and 4x4 Ao5 are also both within 16.5 and 18.5 times slower than their respective WR's. So, I know I'm fairly equally bad at all three . But the Pyraminx? Atrocious. I am 30 times slower than the WR. I freeze up a lot on the pyraminx. Not sure why, I might just not do it enough.
> 
> So, I plan on drilling the pyraminx until I get it down to the range the other 3 are at (16-19 or so). The question is, what next? Ultimately I would like to add skewb, 5x5, and megaminx (really only cuz I have those three on my shelf, and haven't learned them yet, they came in with my last purchase). So, long term strategy: maybe add one, drill it till it's within the range of the others, then drill them all in rotation till I hit a chosen benchmark on all (say, 15 times slower than WR). Then add another. Lather, rinse, repeat. Does that sound reasonable?



One thing to consider when comparing your times to world class times is that the smaller the puzzle the more of the solve is done in inspection time. The WR 2x2 and pyraminx averages, for example, were almost certainly one-looked, so the recorded time is really just execution. I run roughly 7.5x the WR average for 2x2, but only about 3.5x the WR average for 7x7. You might find this thread interesting for a perhaps more accurate estimate of where you might rank.


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## mitja (Mar 16, 2018)

I did quick 20 solves today and it was my first avg of 5 sub 20 3x3: 19.79. Yeah and avg of 12:20.63


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## h2f (Mar 16, 2018)

Eelephant said:


> Does that sound reasonable?



My point of view is that one should focus only on few events. It's really hard - and for us older cubers it's harder due to lack o time - to be good at many events: not a world class but just good. So just practice what you like.


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## Eelephant (Mar 16, 2018)

Lol! I just did a little research into the pyraminx, and discovered why my times were SO bad, I was doing it in prolly the most inefficient way imaginable. Will most likely see very fast improvement now. Thanks, all!


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## Eelephant (Mar 16, 2018)

h2f said:


> My point of view is that one should focus only on few events. It's really hard - and for us older cubers it's harder due to lack o time - to be good at many events: not a world class but just good. So just practice what you like.


I hear you, absolutely, but I would be afraid that even if you liked the puzzles you were working on, the lack of variety might be a problem? Must consider. Thank you...


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## Mike Hughey (Mar 16, 2018)

I really like doing a variety of puzzles; I wouldn't want to discourage you from doing them all.

But it might be best to at least get pretty good on a few before moving on. Not necessarily really good - just learn a decent method first.

In particular you probably want to learn a decent method for 3x3x3 before moving on to 5x5x5 and even megaminx, because what you learn will carry over to the other puzzles, and if you don't, you'll further ingrain bad habits. I've fought that problem a lot.

In particular, if you decide to go CFOP for 3x3x3 (which you certainly don't need to do - there are other good methods to choose from), intuitive F2L is something that will be very good to learn before moving to 5x5x5 and megaminx.

And that won't take too long to learn - within a month or two you can be moving on to the other puzzles confidently. You don't need to be great at intuitiive F2L - you just want to be good enough at it that you're using good methods as you practice on all puzzles.

You can start skewb any time - it's quite an independent method to learn.

I love competing in every event at competitions - it's more fun in my opinion and it also means I usually have at least one event where I did pretty well.


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## kbrune (Mar 16, 2018)

Mike Hughey said:


> Yes. My first solves on it weren't quite as fast, but it is definitely a lot nicer. With a little practice, I'm sure I'll be setting new personal records with it too.



Which 4x4 did you decide to get? Do you like it so far?


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## pglewis (Mar 16, 2018)

mitja said:


> I did quick 20 solves today and it was my first avg of 5 sub 20 3x3: 19.79.



Nicely done, has to feel good to break past that milestone!


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## pglewis (Mar 16, 2018)

Eelephant said:


> Ok, I have been inspired and motivated to start tracking solve times and preparing for competitions



Personally, I think the main thing for that first competition is finding out how you react to the adrenaline and setting personal marks to beat at your second one. I had no idea how adversely I'd be affected under comp conditions until I experienced bizarre OLL and PLL amnesia in my first couple solves. Everyone is different: some people thrive at comps, some see little difference from any other session, and some find themselves significantly slower than at home. I've been a lot slower at comp so far but I was much closer to business as usual at my most recent one in Sept. The two most important things to prep for IMO: get comfortable solving in front of people and with distractions. There is a lot of motion, noise, and chatter going on than the typical practice environment. 

If I had a really good day right now under comp conditions I might hope for a mid 20s average and a low 20s single on 3x3. From a competitive standpoint that might as well be 2:00, I'm just another also-ran, but I'd go home very happy. "Sub Me" is my primary goal. 



Eelephant said:


> One wrench in the works: when I'll have to learn a new method to break a barrier. Most of my solves are kind of a mishmash of intuition, beginner algs/steps, and the like. When to pull the trigger, bite the bullet and just do it?



I'm a firm believer that if you've decided on a method/substep to use then you should always be working to incorporate the next most important piece of it. I think the faster you get the harder it is to accept the regression something new will cause. You're as slow as you're gonna be right now, so now is when it hurts the least and the sooner you learn new things the sooner you'll trust them in timed solves. I know lots of stuff that I completely ditch when the timer is running (looking at you, COLL H and Pi).



Eelephant said:


> And then, just going to have to accept the fact that the going will be slow, cuz I won't be able to lay off the non-WCA puzzles entirely, just learning a solve for the fun of it. For instance, I'm pretty sure my next purchase/project is going to be a 3x3 mirror. I really dig the 2x2 mirror.



It really is all about what you want to get out of it of course. Some people are happy just learning to solve if it takes them five mins. Some are more interested in bigger cubes and/or blind events without much regard to 3x3 progress. I'm primarily interested in 3x3, 3bld, and mbld right now so my 4x4 and 5x5 rarely get picked up but they're here for me if/when I get the itch. So go for the variety if that's what strikes your fancy or focus on a few events if you're more inclined to maximize progress. If you change your mind next week, do that


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## Mike Hughey (Mar 16, 2018)

kbrune said:


> Which 4x4 did you decide to get? Do you like it so far?


Sorry, I should have listed here what I got. I got the following, all Cubicle Labs:
Skewb: X-Man Wingy Magnetic
3x3x3: Valk M
4x4x4: WuQue M
5x5x5: WuShuang M
6x6x6: Red M
7x7x7: WuJi M

And I also got 20 MF3RS2s for multi.

And I'd say that I love them all.

I wasn't sure at first about the Valk M. When doing just untimed practice solves, it seemed slow; quality, but slow. But once I started doing timed solves, it was like the lube in it instantly broke down and suddenly it was the fastest cube I've ever solved on. I do like the MF3RS2s too, though - there's a bigger improvement between any other 3x3x3 I've ever owned and the MF3RS2s than there is between the MF3RS2s and the Valk M. So while I'd say the Valk M is nicer, I'm not sure if it's worth the money difference. Still, I'm glad I have it.

The WuQue M is wonderful. I was actually pretty happy with my old 4x4x4 - it was one of the nicest cubes I owned. It was one of my most recent purchases before this - an Aosu from a few years ago. So I was surprised to discover how much improvement the new WuQue is. I did set new PBs for average of 5 and average of 12 with it in my first session with it, so it is noticeably helping me. Now I think I just need to get used to the speed.

The biggest improvement of all is probably the Red M. I had a ShengShou 6x6x6 and 7x7x7 before. The new 6x6x6 is so nice it's hard to believe it's possible.

I'm not quite as happy with the WuJi as I am with the others. I think the problem is that the pieces are so tiny, it's not able to be quite as stable as the others are. It's still pretty good, but I did have the pieces get twisted up once in a solve, and it seems like the edges between the pieces are a little sharp and can catch your fingers causing a lockup sometimes. Still, it's a massive improvement over the old ShengShou; I certainly would not want to go back. I guess all I'm saying here is that it feels like there's still room for improvement on 7x7x7s; I'm not sure it's possible to improve on the Red M for 6x6x6.

For 5x5x5, 6x6x6, and 7x7x7, the speed difference is incredible. I'm probably at least 25% faster with these cubes than I am with my old ones, at least using freeslice. I don't think I'm going to try AvG; I'm going to make myself get good at freeslice, now that I can do so without having my times get worse on the way. 

I haven't tried my cubes for multi yet; I'll give them a try this weekend. I have a lot of sticker moving to do to apply my color scheme to them first.


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## mark49152 (Mar 16, 2018)

@Eelephant : I agree with Phil here. The best way to approach your first competition is to go along with an open mind, have some fun, and meet people. It's unlikely to enhance your experience if you put yourself under pressure to meet targets. If you decide competing is for you, there will be plenty more opportunities for pressure


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## kbrune (Mar 16, 2018)

Does anyone know if the wuque 4x4 is the exact same cube as the wuque M only without magnets?
Wuque M doesn't seem to be available at the store im ordering from but the Wuque is.


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## newtonbase (Mar 16, 2018)

4/5BLD means look like they. Sare becoming official. Something to aim for for us slower guys


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## Mike Hughey (Mar 16, 2018)

newtonbase said:


> 4/5BLD means look like they. Sare becoming official. Something to aim for for us slower guys


Where did you get this info? I think that would be nice (although it means I need to finally get me a 5x5x5 mean - I have 7 2-means, but no full means).


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## newtonbase (Mar 16, 2018)

Mike Hughey said:


> Where did you get this info? I think that would be nice (although it means I need to finally get me a 5x5x5 mean - I have 7 2-means, but no full means).


It's on Facebook and a messenger group I'm in though I don't think it's been announced I do hope it happens.


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## Jason Green (Mar 16, 2018)

One Wheel said:


> One thing to consider when comparing your times to world class times is that the smaller the puzzle the more of the solve is done in inspection time. The WR 2x2 and pyraminx averages, for example, were almost certainly one-looked, so the recorded time is really just execution. I run roughly 7.5x the WR average for 2x2, but only about 3.5x the WR average for 7x7. You might find this thread interesting for a perhaps more accurate estimate of where you might rank.


Also the smaller puzzles benefit more from insane TPS at the world record level I think. That's a bad way to put it probably, not really accurate .What I mean is I think a lot of us could have TPS sufficient to average sub 10 on 3x3, which would seem world classish, even though it's not anymore.  



Eelephant said:


> I hear you, absolutely, but I would be afraid that even if you liked the puzzles you were working on, the lack of variety might be a problem? Must consider. Thank you...


My biggest advice to stay motivated and improve is do whatever seems the most fun for you. I prefer to mainly focus on one event at a time. I care nothing about non WCA (that's just playing with toys to me, hahaha) but I know a lot of people like them. I did nothing but 3x3 for a year probably. For now I have quit pyraminx and skewb, just because I don't practice and to try and warm up for a comp (relearn parts I forgot) is just not fun right now. I used to do that just to compete in max events, but I'm not now because I don't have fun with it. I probably won't compete in 2x2 for a while either for same reason. Again those are just my preferences because I have the most fun that way.


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## mark49152 (Mar 16, 2018)

newtonbase said:


> It's on Facebook and a messenger group I'm in though I don't think it's been announced I do hope it happens.


What's the status and origin of the info? Has the WCA board discussed? Or approved? Or is this just delegate discussion? Or pure FB speculation?


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## mitja (Mar 16, 2018)

pglewis said:


> Nicely done, has to feel good to break past that milestone!


Yes, now I need to do it at the competition.


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## RubikDog (Mar 17, 2018)

Is there any senior (40+ year) records table?


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## newtonbase (Mar 17, 2018)

mark49152 said:


> What's the status and origin of the info? Has the WCA board discussed? Or approved? Or is this just delegate discussion? Or pure FB speculation?


Looking further it appears to still be at discussion stage 
https://github.com/thewca/wca-regulations/issues/539


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## newtonbase (Mar 17, 2018)

RubikDog said:


> Is there any senior (40+ year) records table?


There are 2 now. Both are unofficial as ages are not public
https://github.com/Logiqx/wca-ipy/blob/master/README.md
https://goo.gl/nvwyfG


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## h2f (Mar 17, 2018)

kbrune said:


> Does anyone know if the wuque 4x4 is the exact same cube as the wuque M only without magnets?
> Wuque M doesn't seem to be available at the store im ordering from but the Wuque is.



As far as I know Wuque M is magnetized by shops where you buy. So yes.



Mike Hughey said:


> I do like the MF3RS2s too, though - there's a bigger improvement between any other 3x3x3 I've ever owned and the MF3RS2s than there is between the MF3RS2s and the Valk M. So while I'd say the Valk M is nicer, I'm not sure if it's worth the money difference. Still, I'm glad I have it.



Yeah. When I showed magnetized version to my brother he thought it's the one of the top cubes regarding the price. He's not a cuber but he does few solves sometimes and he cant belive it's only around 9$.


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## mitja (Mar 17, 2018)

newtonbase said:


> There are 2 now. Both are unofficial as ages are not public
> https://github.com/Logiqx/wca-ipy/blob/master/README.md
> https://goo.gl/nvwyfG


Managed to do some new PB's today. Finally two sub 20 singles 17.41 and missed sub 20 avg. Good, it still stays a goal. I have no time for afternoon round, have sleepover with my students ,but very satisfied with the results. Have never done official sub20. 
http://m.cubecomps.com/competitions/2986/competitors/16
My younger daughter was not in the mood, but still made 21.55 single


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## openseas (Mar 17, 2018)

mitja said:


> Managed to do some new PB's today. Finally two sub 20 singles 17.41 and missed sub 20 avg. Good, it still stays a goal. I have no time for afternoon round, have sleepover with my students ,but very satisfied with the results. Have never done official sub20.
> http://m.cubecomps.com/competitions/2986/competitors/16
> My younger daughter was not in the mood, but still made 21.55 single



Great job!

I've got 4BLD 11min (3rd), but the rest was meh.

My son got also his comp PB joined multi sub-20 club for 3BLD.

Still MBLD 2 attempts left, but completely exhausted :-(

Jeff checked my 5BLD dnf, looks like one turn off (all wings and midges) - turned out I one setup/unsetup move was off which caused the rest of edges fails.

All 3 4BLD we're 11mins. (2 DNF & 1 success) - still need cut couple of minutes for Nats qual.


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## newtonbase (Mar 17, 2018)

openseas said:


> All 3 4BLD we're 11mins. (2 DNF & 1 success) - still need cut couple of minutes for Nats qual.


Well done. That's good progress. I'm trying hard to hold on to your coat-tails.
Got a 10:22 DNF today Memo was 3rd best at 4:52 but very solid. Then I had a lock-up and had to remove an internal mid comm which caused execution errors. Very happy with this solve especially as I started it within a couple of mins of realising that I had 20ish minutes to myself so no prep or focus. Maybe that helped.


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## mitja (Mar 17, 2018)

openseas said:


> Great job!
> 
> I've got 4BLD 11min (3rd), but the rest was meh.
> 
> ...


Great work, In my country there is only one 4BLD result( around 20 min), so that is my goal, to do it in one month at next nationals. But tour progress is amazing.


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## mark49152 (Mar 18, 2018)

12/20 today at Guildford in my first official 20 attempt. Memo was too slow, so I had to speed it up, but then couldn't make it stick well so ended up blanking several cubes. Still I'm glad I took a shot at it. More practice needed.

Congrats @openseas on the 4BLD, and everyone else who got PBs.


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## h2f (Mar 18, 2018)

@mitja, congrats! Nice times.
@openseas, very nice! 2nd podium in a row! 
@mark49152, still great attempt!

Here is my 18.31 official PB made in last competiotion. It could have been 17.02 but I messed up last solve.





And my sub1 3bld fail.


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## openseas (Mar 18, 2018)

Thanks, @newtonbase , @mitja , @mark49152 , @h2f !




mark49152 said:


> 12/20 today at Guildford in my first official 20 attempt. Memo was too slow, so I had to speed it up, but then couldn't make it stick well so ended up blanking several cubes. Still I'm glad I took a shot at it. More practice needed.



You'll get it next time.

I still have one more attempt tomorrow morning. Yesterday evening attempt was a disaster. 2/6, really went for safe but I screwed up executions - the whole day brain exercise called it a day before the comp, I guess. 3 of them, due to BU sticker alg error. Since I rarely use single BF alg - most of time, comm or floats it but wanted to go safe but got rusty on alg. I missed last M' slice which made all 3 cubes M slice off = DNF.


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## mark49152 (Mar 18, 2018)

Good luck @openseas .

Grzegorz: must be very annoying to hurt a finger before a comp!


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## h2f (Mar 18, 2018)

mark49152 said:


> Good luck @openseas .
> 
> Grzegorz: must be very annoying to hurt a finger before a comp!



Lesson learnet I guess - use a holder when you grate. (I hope I used proper English words). 

How's weather in UK Mark?


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## mark49152 (Mar 18, 2018)

h2f said:


> Lesson learnet I guess - use a holder when you grate. (I hope I used proper English words).
> 
> How's weather in UK Mark?


Ouch. The weather is ok. A bit of snow but the roads home are clear.


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## openseas (Mar 18, 2018)

Well, during the last solve, realized one flip not done for 4th room. That thinking screwed up the sequence of the last solve, + picked up the 3rd cube(perfectly solved) instead of 4th cube, did flip alg, DNF'd those 3. Memo 6 was 15 min but I executed wrong order for the first cube. So I had to go back all the way, very slowly and redo the solve. It took quite a while - looks like more than 10 min just for that cube fixing alone (ended up solving correctly)

Lessons: need to check flips/twists before start each execution, + need to add more cubes.


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## h2f (Mar 18, 2018)

@openseas, I have a problem with twists so something similiar. It's due to habbit from 3bld. In 3bld I do twists after corners (I do corners first than edges). In mbld I do first edges, next corners. The problem is that my buffer moves if I have parity: in 3bld it's in UBR with parity; without parity it's in UBL. I mess at least 1 cube on every attempt doing twists with buffer in bad position. I must figure it out.

I've started to add more cubes. Yesterday I did 7/9 in 49 minutes; today 5/11 in 49 minutes. 2 dnfs because of twists, 1 flip; 2 cubes with 3cycles; one partial mess. My biggest attempt so far is 3/13 in 58 but I forgot 5 cubes during attempt.


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## pglewis (Mar 18, 2018)

@mitja: Congrats to both you and your daughter. Comp nerves didn't get you at all. 

@openseas: nice 4bld but Jeff likes to steal your thunder. It's gotta be exciting knowing he has a legit shot of really getting hold of one on every attempt. 

@mark49152: as you said, fortune favors the bold. Crashing and burning in a fiery ball also favors the bold but I'm glad you took the risk and pushed it. I just saw Andy crushed his OH single too. 

@h2f: Ouch on that final disaster 3x3 solve, I had so much empathy watching it unfold. Been there so many times.


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## mark49152 (Mar 18, 2018)

pglewis said:


> Crashing and burning in a fiery ball also favors the bold


LOL


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## bubbagrub (Mar 18, 2018)

I thought I'd send a quick report on this weekend's competition. First, very nice as always to see Mark & Andy and all the others. This was, I think, the first competition I've been to where I competed in every event. It's also the first where my wife and daughter took part. My wife did pyraminx and skewb and my daughter did pyraminx, and beat me, much to her surprise. It was also perhaps the competition in which I got the most DNFs. I reckon it was the jet-lag, as I'd just flown back from California. Anyway, the main event for me was feet, and in round 1 it went pretty well (I came fourth, and got through to the final) but then in the final it all went to pieces (and I got one of those DNFs when an edge cap popped off).

I got surprising PBs in 5x5 and 4x4 and had a total meltdown in MBLD, sadly. Some day I'll get that 5/5... Joseph (my son) also got very surprising PBs in one-handed. He's really not practised it, and wasn't expecting to make the cut-off, but managed to get a very respectable average. It was also nice to be there when Charlie got his WR average in square-one, although I'd have preferred it if I wasn't mid-solve at the time...

So, a fun weekend all round. Congratulations to Andy for his PBs, and to everyone else who competed this weekend.


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## newtonbase (Mar 18, 2018)

Some nice results this weekend. Well done guys. 

I spent today at a different kind of competition with a slightly younger age group and a similar gender disparity. My daughter was competing in her first dance comp. It had an aura of chaos with a couple of hundred kids running around in sequins and Day-Glo lycra but it was managed surprisingly well. There were no breaks between rounds and competitors were often dancing within 10s of their group being called. It was pretty impressive. Trophies were big but so were the fees.


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## openseas (Mar 19, 2018)

pglewis said:


> nice 4bld but Jeff likes to steal your thunder. It's gotta be exciting knowing he has a legit shot of really getting hold of one on every attempt.



Thanks. It was 10 alg - looks like first official sub-20 with 10 algs. 



newtonbase said:


> Trophies were big but so were the fees.



haha, been there. Jeff had a black belt (Taekwondo) just because he wanted to get the big trophy when he was like 8~9-ish. He quit right after getting the belt then revealed why he practiced for years. All those years, I thought he actually liked Taekowndo


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## mitja (Mar 19, 2018)

newtonbase said:


> Some nice results this weekend. Well done guys.
> 
> I spent today at a different kind of competition with a slightly younger age group and a similar gender disparity. My daughter was competing in her first dance comp. It had an aura of chaos with a couple of hundred kids running around in sequins and Day-Glo lycra but it was managed surprisingly well. There were no breaks between rounds and competitors were often dancing within 10s of their group being called. It was pretty impressive. Trophies were big but so were the fees.


Ha ha, I do this every day, teaching and choreographing is my profession. Quite different then cubcomp.


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## kbrune (Mar 19, 2018)

@openseas 
Nice job on that 4bld! Congrats to Jeff!

@mark49152
Was it just a slow day for you? Or did something throw off your memo rhythm? Get em next time Mark!

@bubbagrub
Nice job on your results! Im jealous of those who have family competing with them. My wife and daughter have zero interest in competing. Not for my lack of trying though. (perhaps my trying is pushing them away from it too )

@h2f
I like watching your 3x3 solves. In the beginning you sort of look like a boxer. bobbing and weaving a bit 
nice job on the 3x3

@mitja
Congrats on the PBs. Congrats to your family as well. Im jealous that they compete with you! [/USER]


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## h2f (Mar 19, 2018)

@kbrune, ha ha. Thanks.


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## phreaker (Mar 19, 2018)

Update on BLD:

I've been on a REAL bad run. All my mistakes look like tracing errors on edges, execution feels solid.. memo is mostly holding up, but I'm pushing to go faster and faster... so time to time, it doesn't, but that's rare.

Anyone got tips on edge tracing and how not to $#%@#$ it up constantly.

Starting to look at commutators, just to start loading it into my head... slowly. It'll take time


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## kbrune (Mar 19, 2018)

phreaker said:


> Update on BLD:
> 
> I've been on a REAL bad run. All my mistakes look like tracing errors on edges, execution feels solid.. memo is mostly holding up, but I'm pushing to go faster and faster... so time to time, it doesn't, but that's rare.
> 
> ...



I'm having the same problem! So I'm going to piggy back your request for tips.

Tracing seems to be my limiting factor for success. I'm getting very good times relative to my own progress. But when I push memo speed success rate is almost zero. I constantly miss flipped edges. I have a lot of difficulty knowing if I have all the edges covered. When I get a success it's ususally because there aren't any cycle breaks lol


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## phreaker (Mar 19, 2018)

kbrune said:


> I'm having the same problem! So I'm going to piggy back your request for tips.
> 
> Tracing seems to be my limiting factor for success. I'm getting very good times relative to my own progress. But when I push memo speed success rate is almost zero. I constantly miss flipped edges. I have a lot of difficulty knowing if I have all the edges covered. When I get a success it's ususally because there aren't any cycle breaks lol



Solo flipped edges: I try to keep count on how long my memo should be. If it isn't right, I go figure it out. It'll come back as "one off". So I'm expecting 11 targets, I missed the flipped edge, so I get 10 targets... nope... wrong. Gotta be a flipped edge, somewhere, or it is solved. Figure out which.

My issue is literally tracing, I'm just not doing it right. I need to figure out what in my head is doing it. I may just take a break, and look at commutators for a bit and come back and work with it more carefully, instead of drilling broken habits.


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## kbrune (Mar 19, 2018)

phreaker said:


> Solo flipped edges: I try to keep count on how long my memo should be. If it isn't right, I go figure it out. It'll come back as "one off". So I'm expecting 11 targets, I missed the flipped edge, so I get 10 targets... nope... wrong. Gotta be a flipped edge, somewhere, or it is solved. Figure out which.
> 
> My issue is literally tracing, I'm just not doing it right. I need to figure out what in my head is doing it. I may just take a break, and look at commutators for a bit and come back and work with it more carefully, instead of drilling broken habits.



The whole math of it is really hard to keep track for me. When I have to take time to measure targets vs memo targets and add cycle breaks. It automatically adds a ton of time to my solve. I'm not sure how to get to a place where it becomes quicker. It's most likely practice practice practice as usual. It's just frustrating!

By tracing do you mean that your memoing wrong targets the faster you go? I take tracing to mean, following the sequence of edge targets. Am I wrong?


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## phreaker (Mar 19, 2018)

kbrune said:


> The whole math of it is really hard to keep track for me. When I have to take time to measure targets vs memo targets and add cycle breaks. It automatically adds a ton of time to my solve. I'm not sure how to get to a place where it becomes quicker. It's most likely practice practice practice as usual. It's just frustrating!
> 
> By tracing do you mean that your memoing wrong targets the faster you go? I take tracing to mean, following the sequence of edge targets. Am I wrong?



Right now I'm very focused on accuracy... without it, speeding up isn't quite as useful.

I'm just memoing the wrong targets. Recall is fine. But I'll flip the F/L (in speffz) edge, or something.

Really irritating. I've had up to 3 flips in a solve. One of those might have been a missed flipped edge... unlikely all 3 were.

Funny thing is: I'm not twisting corners. It is all edges. Now, I do use audio edges, and that means I am under time pressure. But still.


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## pglewis (Mar 19, 2018)

I've been establishing a baseline for my 3x3 solves at the coffee shop this past week (normally I'm just doing untimed practice) and it's in the neighborhood of 5+ seconds slower than "normal". It shouldn't come as a big surprise, I'm always in there within an hour or three of waking and that's a bad time for things that rely on reflexes... I wouldn't expect to play my best ping-pong at that hour either, assuming I actually played ping-pong. A lot of solves that feel average to me turn out to be 34-35; at 9 PM many that feel like I was hunting for pairs clock-in at 25-26. Using timer.cubing.net on my phone the running ao12 has generally been 30+ though it did briefly dip down to 27s a few times the past couple days, which is more typical for me atm. I'd like to compare against 4-5+ hours after waking and see how much might be slow brain vs. just the environment. 

In other news, I spontaneously forgot how to do a PLL out of the blue. I'm not even 100% sure which one. I've temporarily had issues and blanked here and there but only for a few minutes, never chronically like this. It messes up F2L the same way every time so I'm consistently making the same mistake... more than a half dozen times the past 3 days. I'm fairly certain it's Ga, need to look it up and drill. I never drill algs and my PLL is completely triggered by recognition now so most are difficult/impossible for me to do unless it's in the heat of a solve.


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## kbrune (Mar 19, 2018)

phreaker said:


> Right now I'm very focused on accuracy... without it, speeding up isn't quite as useful.
> 
> I'm just memoing the wrong targets. Recall is fine. But I'll flip the F/L (in speffz) edge, or something.
> 
> ...



What's your average for bld?

yes very irritating. I make mistakes like that as well. But for me it's mostly missing flipped edges because I can't seem to do the simple math while trying to retain memo. I also mess up on cycle breaks a lot. I'll forget to include the target right before the new cycle piece. Also aggravating to me. Somehow while looking for a new target on a break. I forget to include the current letter.


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## kbrune (Mar 19, 2018)

pglewis said:


> In other news, I spontaneously forgot how to do a PLL out of the blue. I'm not even 100% sure which one. I've temporarily had issues and blanked here and there but only for a few minutes, never chronically like this.



How long has it been since you learned full PLL? It still happens to me once in a while. I'll blank very briefly on an OLL or PLL. I've actually been meaning to drill my OLLs once or twice for a while now. I find there's many that don't come up often for me. Once and a while it'll cost me half a second or so to get it or i'll just do a random OLL to change the case.


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## pglewis (Mar 19, 2018)

I'm probably greener than either of you so mostly commiseration.



kbrune said:


> I have a lot of difficulty knowing if I have all the edges covered. When I get a success it's ususally because there aren't any cycle breaks lol



I still track with fingers. I've been experimenting with just remembering what I've hit on the M slice so I don't have to use any there. If three have been done on a face and I hit a cycle break I'll often go for the 4th and just remember that face is done, freeing up the fingers that were tracking there. I have not been effective at all doing any counting in an attempt to track a checksum.



phreaker said:


> Recall is fine. But I'll flip the F/L (in speffz) edge, or something.



I get this a fair bit and it seems a fairly common error. Thats no help but misery loves company.



phreaker said:


> Funny thing is: I'm not twisting corners. It is all edges.



I think I'm the opposite. The primary challenge of edges for me is tracing and running out of fingers. Corners are easier in that respect but I have a 50% greater chance of mucking up and memo-ing the wrong sticker.

One of my current focus points is immediately visualizing which face the target sticker is, first thing. If I put my finger on it first I run the risk of just memo-ing the sticker I'm touching... which isn't always the correct one.


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## kbrune (Mar 19, 2018)

pglewis said:


> I'm probably greener than either of you so mostly commiseration.
> 
> I still track with fingers.
> 
> I get this a fair bit and it seems a fairly common error. Thats no help but misery loves company.



I used to track with fingers all the time. As I sped up I stopped doing it. I may have to use that again. That or i'll have to make it a point to use the "remember what's done on one face" trick. 

The thing is. I feel like my brain doesn't have enough RAM to do all these things at the same time! lol
I've been able to speed up by dropping some sub routines. But in the end I don't have accuracy. At all. 
I'm going to have to think about some adjustments and stick to the method for a while to see if I can get some accuracy with it.


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## pglewis (Mar 19, 2018)

kbrune said:


> How long has it been since you learned full PLL? It still happens to me once in a while. I'll blank very briefly on an OLL or PLL. I've actually been meaning to drill my OLLs once or twice for a while now. I find there's many that don't come up often for me. Once and a while it'll cost me half a second or so to get it or i'll just do a random OLL to change the case.



I went for full PLL early, had them mostly learned before I was consistently under a minute so they're well established. I've never drilled PLL outside of just solving but I'm approaching that point. 

Lowest probability OLLs are: Runway (1), Highway (55), Streetlights (56), and Mummy/H (57) all at 1/108 and Checkers (20) at 1/216. All those are on my "drill them specifically" list. Double Sune/H-OCLL is also 1/108 but is well established for me... the challenge on that one is getting used to recognizing COLL for it due to the low frequency. I've only been at full OLL for about the past six months and all the L edge cases are still rather slow for me on the recognition side.


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## mitja (Mar 19, 2018)

pglewis said:


> I'm probably greener than either of you so mostly commiseration.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


When I trace edges I use fingers to cover L and R layer, but not cover the middle layer pieces. Just keep track if all 3 are already traced. It is easier on fingers and don't miss a side edge. At the same time I keep focus on middle 3 with my mind. It works for me.
I mostly use numbers for flipped corners. I memo them on the end. Each corner has numbers 1-8 for CW and 10-80 for CCW. For edges, i dont use numbers, just both letters. It could be done with number too ( 1-12) . For parity, I add a letter I never use in memo, that way it reminds me that I have parity.


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## pglewis (Mar 19, 2018)

kbrune said:


> The thing is. I feel like my brain doesn't have enough RAM to do all these things at the same time!



That's exactly how it feels to me. I'm big on doing a lot of sighted practice, partially because I'm bad at keeping up practice and constantly have to re-drill execution and exercise my memory again. If I'm coming off a couple week hiatus I might do edges sighted just 2 or 3 pairs at a time. It becomes more like flash cards for basic tracing, assigning speffz, and execution without as much memo multitasking anxiety, plus I get quick feedback on any issues. Two or three days of that and stretching it out as I get more comfortable/confident seems to do wonders for me, but I'm still a 5-6 min guy on a good day. 



mitja said:


> When I trace edges I use fingers to cover L and R layer, but not cover the middle layer pieces.



Yeah, that's the same thing I've been trying with very promising results so far.


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## JanW (Mar 19, 2018)

My bld record isn't very impressive right now either. About 23% success rate this year. Most solves fall within the 2:30-3:30 range, but all too often there's one mistake. Not sure if I should slow down to improve accuracy, or keep pushing for faster memo and execution and hope that accuracy eventually improves.

Regarding tracing or counting, I've never done either. I don't even remember how many edge targets there should be. In a way I go by feel. When I hit the buffer piece, I can tell if my memo is not long enough already.

Lately I've often been flipping edges first thing during execution. Usually I still run through edge memo one more time after closing my eyes, so I can just as well spend that time flipping stuff.


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## newtonbase (Mar 19, 2018)

Unfortunately tracing well is mostly down to practice. You can start with the number of pieces expected and adjust it depending on cycle breaks and flips. Eventually you'll just get a feel for if it's right but everybody makes mistakes whatever their level.
I get a few wrong now as I switch UB and UL for parity avoidance. This messes up the count a bit. I need to work out how to allow for it. 
I had a scramble today with 4 flipped edges but I only saw 3 so went to flip the buffer with them, did the wrong piece and ended up with 2 non buffer pieces flipped. Not a good solve.


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## mark49152 (Mar 19, 2018)

kbrune said:


> @mark49152
> Was it just a slow day for you? Or did something throw off your memo rhythm?


I have a lot going on this year so have done less practice and my concentration is often weaker. This attempt was predominantly a memo fail. Maybe 5 out of those 8 missed cubes were simply blacked out memo. I'm not that unhappy with the result though, because I knew I was stretching my limits and it was good to get an official 20 attempt done within the hour.



newtonbase said:


> I get a few wrong now as I switch UB and UL for parity avoidance. This messes up the count a bit. I need to work out how to allow for it.


Are you sure? I think the count is the same because you're still solving 12 pieces. So targets = 11 + breaks. In fact it's easier because targets must always be even and that can help you figure out what to look for at the end. For example if you finish on an odd number of targets when you know you have 2 pieces left, you know they must be swapped, not flipped or solved. (Disclaimer: I haven't been doing it long.)


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## pglewis (Mar 19, 2018)

pglewis said:


> ... It messes up F2L the same way every time so I'm consistently making the same mistake... more than a half dozen times the past 3 days. I'm fairly certain it's Ga ...



Yeah, it's the primary Ga listed on algdb, R2 u R' U R' U' R u' R2 y' R' U R

For some reason I now have the urge to change that first R' U R' U' to R' U *R* U'


----------



## newtonbase (Mar 19, 2018)

mark49152 said:


> I have a lot going on this year so have done less practice and my concentration is often weaker. This attempt was predominantly a memo fail. Maybe 5 out of those 8 missed cubes were simply blacked out memo. I'm not that unhappy with the result though, because I knew I was stretching my limits and it was good to get an official 20 attempt done within the hour.
> 
> 
> Are you sure? I think the count is the same because you're still solving 12 pieces. So targets = 11 + breaks. In fact it's easier because targets must always be even and that can help you figure out what to look for at the end. For example if you finish on an odd number of targets when you know you have 2 pieces left, you know they must be swapped, not flipped or solved. (Disclaimer: I haven't been doing it long.)


I could do with spending more time thinking about these things rather than just doing them. Thanks for saving me the effort


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## Mike Hughey (Mar 20, 2018)

G perms - I hate them. I forget them and have to relearn them at least once a year. I finally learned some new ones this year that are much faster, but they don't work so well for big cubes. And I'm sure I'll forget them even faster with these new ones than I ever forgot the old ones.

Tracing edges for 3BLD - I still use fingers too. If I don't, and I get multiple cycles, it almost always takes me way too long to find the missing cycle(s) if I don't use fingers. Which is sad, because certainly it slows me down.

@mark49152 - For me it seems like it's more often true that if I have an odd number of edges with corner parity, it means I memorized the corners wrong and there's really no parity and I have to start over memorizing again. :-( It also usually means a 2:30 to 3 minute solve. :-( :-(


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## mark49152 (Mar 20, 2018)

Mike Hughey said:


> @mark49152 - For me it seems like it's more often true that if I have an odd number of edges with corner parity, it means I memorized the corners wrong and there's really no parity and I have to start over memorizing again. :-( It also usually means a 2:30 to 3 minute solve. :-( :-(


For me the usual cause is that I forgot to swap UB-UL at all . But I do think that consistently having an even number of targets will be useful once I get fluent enough to be able to exploit it without too much thinking.


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## Mike Hughey (Mar 20, 2018)

Okay, now that you mention it, I realize I do that a lot too.


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## kbrune (Mar 20, 2018)

I vote that we boycott G perms. We all refuse to do them until the cube gods give us 4 new fingertrick friendly PLLs


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## mark49152 (Mar 20, 2018)

The French G perms are quite nice.


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## h2f (Mar 20, 2018)

I like Gperms. I use Valk's versions.


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## kbrune (Mar 20, 2018)

h2f said:


> I like Gperms. I use Valk's versions.



I've never seen those. They are nice. I'm not sure if I can perform them fast. I'll have to try them out.


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## h2f (Mar 20, 2018)

kbrune said:


> I'm not sure if I can perform them fast.



I'm sure you can. As one said - I use one Gperm: its inverse, its mirror and the inverse of the mirror.


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## pglewis (Mar 20, 2018)

I don't mind G-Perms at all, minus this sudden bizarre muscle memory issue... I even have 2 angles for Gb because I wanted a headlights-left AUF. Ironically, the trouble-maker Ga has traditionally been one of my better PLLs. Execution is average but I tend recognize it quickly for some reason. Ns, the As, and F are my least faves. 



mark49152 said:


> I'm not that unhappy with the result though, because I knew I was stretching my limits and it was good to get an official 20 attempt done within the hour.



From the results it looked like you weren't the only one in "push my limits" mode. I love the deep talent pool you guys have going on in blind events and I'm sure that 20 attempt keeps the rest of 'em on their toes . 



JanW said:


> In a way I go by feel. When I hit the buffer piece, I can tell if my memo is not long enough already.



Pure envy from me but I'm highly doubtful I could be very successful that way. I have the same problem as Mike H, if I hit a cycle break without tracking what I've solved I spend too much time figuring out what's left.


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## kbrune (Mar 20, 2018)

h2f said:


> I'm sure you can. As one said - I use one Gperm: its inverse, its mirror and the inverse of the mirror.



What's the alg you use. The ones I saw from Valk look nice. I think I could execute 1 or 2 of them fast but the ones where you have to push on the LUB Corner with your index for U. I've never been able to pull that off. I use that move on one of the N perms and it's still slow after years of using it. I always slow down at the index push part.



pglewis said:


> I don't mind G-Perms at all, minus this sudden bizarre muscle memory issue... I even have 2 angles for Gb because I wanted a headlights-left AUF. Ironically, the trouble-maker Ga has traditionally been one of my better PLLs. Execution is average but I tend recognize it quickly for some reason. Ns, the As, and F are my least faves.



I've come to hate many PLLs nowadays unfortunately. I always thought that the faster I got, the more I'd love them. But the opposite has been true. For many PLLs. The faster I've gotten at executing. The more lock ups and mistakes I make. A good example for me is the E perm. It was one of my favorite to execute when I learned it at first. It's fast and cool. It was one of my smoothest. But now that I can turn faster and since I've started using faster cubes with less turn resistance. The E perm has become one of my most hated PLLs. I have to execute at reduced speed or I mess it up. The Gperms have the same issue for me. Plus they have regrips and I find them hard to execute quickly. except for one.


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## pglewis (Mar 20, 2018)

kbrune said:


> A good example for me is the E perm. It was one of my favorite to execute when I learned it at first. It's fast and cool. It was one of my smoothest. But now that I can turn faster and since I've started using faster cubes with less turn resistance. The E perm has become one of my most hated PLLs.



I still love it, the symmetry is very pleasing to execute when I nail it, but it's funny to see you describe the exact same issue I've developed over time. I need to look at it in slo-mo some time but I suspect I'm now under-turning my R turns causing the lockups. [edit: borked E-Perm was what kept me from an official sub-30 average last time out]


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## Mike Hughey (Mar 20, 2018)

kbrune said:


> The E perm has become one of my most hated PLLs. I have to execute at reduced speed or I mess it up.


I had this problem until I got my Valk M last week. Now all of a sudden E perm is my favorite - it seems like I never lock up with it! I still have trouble with it on the MF3RS2s, though. That's one place where there's a big difference between the two cubes for me.


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## kbrune (Mar 20, 2018)

Advice needed for my Multi attempt coming up this Saturday.

I'm having a hard time deciding how many cubes I should attempt. 

over the last month or so ive increased my attempts to try to gauge where my sub hour limit might be. My last 5 attempts have been in this order.

6/8 - 55 min
6/10 - 1 hour 15 min
9/12 - 1 hour 15 min
6/8 - 47 min
8/10 - 1 hour 1 min (Im sure I would have been sub hour but I messed up cube 1 memo and had to redo it, put me over)

Most of my mistakes have been memoing wrong letters. forgetting to memo a letter on a cycle break. I don't think I've made a single execution error in those 5 attempts. I struggle with tracing and making sure I cover all the pieces. mostly during edges and sometimes during corners.

I feel like I could comfortably finish 10 cubes in sub hour but this last attempt shook my confidence on that since I messed up the first cube which added a lot of time. Also the fact that I haven't had a 100% accuracy yet makes me think that I should go with a smaller number like 8 or 9 and add review time.

Thoughts or advice appreciated!


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## Mike Hughey (Mar 20, 2018)

If I were you, I'd go for 8 or 9. If you don't feel uncomfortable with an odd number, go for 9; if you do feel uncomfortable, go for 8.

I like to stay in the comfort zone when actually competing. It leaves room such that if you encounter some minor problems, it still doesn't add stress.

But if I get multiple attempts in a competition, and I hit a comfortable first attempt, I'll try to go big for later attempts.


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## kbrune (Mar 20, 2018)

Mike Hughey said:


> If I were you, I'd go for 8 or 9. If you don't feel uncomfortable with an odd number, go for 9; if you do feel uncomfortable, go for 8.
> 
> I like to stay in the comfort zone when actually competing. It leaves room such that if you encounter some minor problems, it still doesn't add stress.
> 
> But if I get multiple attempts in a competition, and I hit a comfortable first attempt, I'll try to go big for later attempts.



I think you're trying to hold me back from beating your 12. I've decided im going with 13!


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## kbrune (Mar 20, 2018)

Also for those who have multi experience.

Has anything caught you off guard when it came to doing a comp attempt vs practicing at home? 
I remember feeling thrown off when I used a stackmat at my first comp. I'm wondering if there's anything like that for multi?
Is the judging different? did that throw you off? etc...


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## pglewis (Mar 20, 2018)

Mike Hughey said:


> I had this problem until I got my Valk M last week. Now all of a sudden E perm is my favorite - it seems like I never lock up with it! I still have trouble with it on the MF3RS2s, though. That's one place where there's a big difference between the two cubes for me.



I have a love/hate relationship with the Valk 3, I have an SCS magnetized one. The stability is great with a lot of LL algs, RUD ones in particular. OTOH, I've developed a taste for fast 3x3s and it seems to gum up quickly and require very frequent cleaning to remain fast. It also tends to be sluggish for the first 15 mins of a session. The GTS2-M is still my reliable go-to and locks up the least for me overall but I do like the Valk better in some respects.


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## Mike Hughey (Mar 20, 2018)

kbrune said:


> Also for those who have multi experience.
> 
> Has anything caught you off guard when it came to doing a comp attempt vs practicing at home?
> I remember feeling thrown off when I used a stackmat at my first comp. I'm wondering if there's anything like that for multi?
> Is the judging different? did that throw you off? etc...



I remember when there was a time that Kit Clement decided it was necessary, according to the then-current rules, to use a stackmat when solving multi. It messed up my normal approach for placement of cubes. But I still did all right with that attempt.

And sometimes the devices they have us wear to block our view of the cubes (harmonica holder with cardboard, so someone doesn't have to hold a cover for 15 minutes waiting for your execution) can be very distracting.

Mainly the reason I leave room for problems is for things like having memo not stick, which just happens some days, or starting to memo a cube in the wrong orientation and having to forget and learn a new memo, or having really really bad scrambles.

And I'm disappointed that you figured out my master strategy.  Good luck with your 13!


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## h2f (Mar 20, 2018)

kbrune said:


> What's the alg you use. The ones I saw from Valk look nice.



I think they are these, starting from Gd:




I was experimenting a lot of with Gperms and finally come to a state when I use Gd as a base and the next are:
- Ga: R2 U R' U R' U' R U' R2 D U' R' U R D'
- Gb: R' U' R U D' R2 U R' U R U' R U' R2 D
- Gc: R2 U' R U' R U R' U R2 D' U R U' R' D
- Gd: R U R' U' D R2 U' R U' R' U R' U R2 D'

I think I had 2 or 3 algs for every Gperm since I've started cubing.

Edit: I've realized that for Ga I use sometimes: D' R2 U R' U R' U' R U' R2 U' D R' U R

Edit2: Yes, and the Gc in the same manner with first D R2 U' R U' R U R' U R2 D' U R U' R'


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## kbrune (Mar 20, 2018)

Mike Hughey said:


> I remember when there was a time that Kit Clement decided it was necessary, according to the then-current rules, to use a stackmat when solving multi.



How could you use a stackmat for multi. Don't they stop after 10 minutes?


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## Mike Hughey (Mar 20, 2018)

Oh, it wasn't used for timing. It was just there to start with. I don't remember the details, but somehow we got to talking about the rules, and Kit decided that there was nothing in the rules at the time that would allow you to run that particular event without a stackmat present. The stopwatch was still the way it was timed.


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## kbrune (Mar 20, 2018)

Mike Hughey said:


> Oh, it wasn't used for timing. It was just there to start with. I don't remember the details, but somehow we got to talking about the rules, and Kit decided that there was nothing in the rules at the time that would allow you to run that particular event without a stackmat present. The stopwatch was still the way it was timed.



lol interesting


how does scrambling and starting work actually? they scramble all your cubes. how do they cover them so you don't see them before you start? Is it different at every comp?


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## pglewis (Mar 20, 2018)

kbrune said:


> how does scrambling and starting work actually? they scramble all your cubes. how do they cover them so you don't see them before you start? Is it different at every comp?



Mark's 16/17 vid has most of the answers condensed to ~4 mins:


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## mark49152 (Mar 20, 2018)

@kbrune: My experience is that memo takes longer in comp than it does at home. I'm not sure why. I just know that what feels like 6 minutes based on home experience turns out to be 7 when I look at the stopwatch in comp. My suggestion would be to play it safe and not add pressure on yourself if you're shooting for a first official result. Maybe go for 8 or even a super safe 6 or 7.

Nothing in particular comes to mind that could throw you off. Time management is important and perhaps the way time flies might surprise you (see above). Keep an eye on the stopwatch and pace yourself by setting some milestones and knowing what target time you should meet for each one.


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## Mike Hughey (Mar 20, 2018)

(Mark is conspiring with me)


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## CLL Smooth (Mar 21, 2018)

I turned 39 today. Despite it being just another day, these numbers are starting to make me feel old. I still cube


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## h2f (Mar 21, 2018)

CLL Smooth said:


> I turned 39 today.


Happy Birthday and best wishes!


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## mark49152 (Mar 21, 2018)

Happy birthday @CLL Smooth


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## newtonbase (Mar 21, 2018)

kbrune said:


> Advice needed for my Multi attempt coming up this Saturday.
> 
> I'm having a hard time deciding how many cubes I should attempt.
> 
> ...


8 or 9 sounds good. You can beat @Mike Hughey next time 


CLL Smooth said:


> I turned 39 today. Despite it being just another day, these numbers are starting to make me feel old. I still cube


Happy birthday.


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## SpartanSailor (Mar 21, 2018)

CLL Smooth said:


> I turned 39 today. Despite it being just another day, these numbers are starting to make me feel old. I still cube


Happy birthday!


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## mitja (Mar 21, 2018)

CLL Smooth said:


> I turned 39 today. Despite it being just another day, these numbers are starting to make me feel old. I still cube


Happy birthday


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## kbrune (Mar 21, 2018)

mark49152 said:


> @kbrune: My experience is that memo takes longer in comp than it does at home. I'm not sure why. I just know that what feels like 6 minutes based on home experience turns out to be 7 when I look at the stopwatch in comp. My suggestion would be to play it safe and not add pressure on yourself if you're shooting for a first official result. Maybe go for 8 or even a super safe 6 or 7.
> 
> Nothing in particular comes to mind that could throw you off. Time management is important and perhaps the way time flies might surprise you (see above). Keep an eye on the stopwatch and pace yourself by setting some milestones and knowing what target time you should meet for each one.





Mike Hughey said:


> (Mark is conspiring with me)



Now I have to do 17!


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## kbrune (Mar 21, 2018)

@CLL Smooth Happy Birthday!


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## pglewis (Mar 21, 2018)

Happy b-day @CLL Smooth. Yeah, it's technically just another day but boy those days really start piling up!


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## kbrune (Mar 21, 2018)

Someone mentioned a while back that to calculate your ao100 you take off best 10 and worst 10. Do I remember that right? 

If so would ao50 be less best 5 and worst 5?


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## SpartanSailor (Mar 21, 2018)

kbrune said:


> Someone mentioned a while back that to calculate your ao100 you take off best 10 and worst 10. Do I remember that right?
> 
> If so would ao50 be less best 5 and worst 5?


I thought they said for Ao100 remove top/bottom 5. 

The scramble app I use only removes fastest and slowest single.... I don’t care to be that accurate to hand-jam the Ao100. It’s more a point of reference for me and I don’t “track” it per se.


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## kbrune (Mar 21, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> I thought they said for Ao100 remove top/bottom 5.
> 
> The scramble app I use only removes fastest and slowest single.... I don’t care to be that accurate to hand-jam the Ao100. It’s more a point of reference for me and I don’t “track” it per se.



I don't follow it closely either. I got curious about what the difference would be if it was calculated with the actual ao50 rules. 

I got my first sub 17 oa50 at 16.92. I wondered if eliminating the top and bottom solves would push me over 17 or not.


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## pglewis (Mar 21, 2018)

I just go by whatever rules csTimer uses


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## kbrune (Mar 21, 2018)

@mark49152 

In the BLD group on facebook you mentioned a good way of practicing comms. I didn't understand it. 

You said "Do your drill then read the memo for what is left. That memo can be executed on a sovled cube for your scramble. That way you can remember the scrambles"


I tried to figure out what this meant but it's way over my head.


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## SpartanSailor (Mar 21, 2018)

Yeah... I’m sure it would change a little if you change how to calculate the average. However, it’s not as though it’s a WCA official time. I use the Ao100 as more of a reference. Right now, I’m tracking a session of 850 that has a session average of 24.xx and the current ao100 is close to the same. That’s slightly better than my current Ao5 official. I just read that to be slow improvement. With any luck, that bears out in my next competition.


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## SpartanSailor (Mar 21, 2018)

kbrune said:


> @mark49152
> 
> In the BLD group on facebook you mentioned a good way of practicing comms. I didn't understand it.
> 
> ...


There’s a BLD group on Facebook?


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## h2f (Mar 21, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> There’s a BLD group on Facebook?


https://www.facebook.com/groups/BLDSupportGroup/


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## mark49152 (Mar 21, 2018)

kbrune said:


> @mark49152
> 
> In the BLD group on facebook you mentioned a good way of practicing comms. I didn't understand it.
> 
> ...



By drill, Bertie meant practising a whole sequence of comms in succession. Like a PLL attack. For example for B set, I do BC, BD, BF ... BX. 18 comms. It's great practice.

The question is, how do I find a scramble that will set up the cube so that my drill solves it?

Bertie suggested genning a scramble using Cube Explorer or similar. That's OK if you want minimum moves but I'm too lazy.

The way I prefer to do it is using comms for the scramble. If you do the drill (correctly) then memo what's left of the cube, that memo gives you the scramble. So after B set corners, if I memo what's left I get WB MK DU XH. Now if I get a solved cube and execute the comms for WB MK DU XH, then do my drill, hey presto, as if by magic, it solves the cube! 

It's good for lazy people because I can just remember my scrambles instead of having to look them up .


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## kbrune (Mar 21, 2018)

mark49152 said:


> By drill, Bertie meant practising a whole sequence of comms in succession. Like a PLL attack. For example for B set, I do BC, BD, BF ... BX. 18 comms. It's great practice.
> 
> The question is, how do I find a scramble that will set up the cube so that my drill solves it?
> 
> ...



Ah ok! I get it now. So you just have those "memo" scrambles written down somewhere?

I tried it once. I have no idea if my mistake was in the first drill to get to the memo, or if the 2nd drill after scramble had a mistakes. Seems like it would take a while to compile an accurate list of memo scrambles!


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## mark49152 (Mar 21, 2018)

kbrune said:


> Ah ok! I get it now. So you just have those "memo" scrambles written down somewhere?


I have them written down but when I'm practising I generally only need to check once and then I remember for the session. Or I do the drill on a solved cube and the end state reminds me what the memo was.

For anybody wondering how it works: for any sequence of moves that doesn't change the cube (identity), you can split it and swap the parts and the result is also identity. So if A B = I, B A = I. In this case A is the drill and B the memo execution.


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## Tabe (Mar 21, 2018)

Anything over ao12, you're supposed to chop off bottom 5% and top 5%.


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## h2f (Mar 22, 2018)

mark49152 said:


> The way I prefer to do it is using comms for the scramble. If you do the drill (correctly) then memo what's left of the cube, that memo gives you the scramble. So after B set corners, if I memo what's left I get WB MK DU XH. Now if I get a solved cube and execute the comms for WB MK DU XH, then do my drill, hey presto, as if by magic, it solves the cube!
> 
> It's good for lazy people because I can just remember my scrambles instead of having to look them up .



Thats awsome trick. I didnt know it. 

I think not drilling comms was my biggest mistake in my everyday 3bld practice.

Drilling algs in every form is very important in 3bld. That's why I wrote there are around 50 OP algs and for corners there are 21. Of course theres only 3 (both Jperms and Yperm) plus setups. When I was drilling them I've strated to think about solving every corner as a sequence of continous alg, not as a sequence setup (pause) + alg (pause) + undo setup, to eliminate pauses.


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## mitja (Mar 22, 2018)

h2f said:


> Thats awsome trick. I didnt know it.
> 
> I think not drilling comms was my biggest mistake in my everyday 3bld practice.
> 
> Drilling algs in every form is very important in 3bld. That's why I wrote there are around 50 OP algs and for corners there are 21. Of course theres only 3 (both Jperms and Yperm) plus setups. When I was drilling them I've strated to think about solving every corner as a sequence of continous alg, not as a sequence setup (pause) + alg (pause) + undo setup, to eliminate pauses.


I also drill by letters sometimes. Just take solved cube and go all over my letterscheme and when i reach the last, I go backward, and if the cube is solved, that was ok.


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## newtonbase (Mar 22, 2018)

I've just hit 50 4BLD attempts since my first solve. My success rate is a rather appalling 8%. I think I need to change how I practice. My memo has been getting worse recently though that could be illness.


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## h2f (Mar 22, 2018)

newtonbase said:


> My memo has been getting worse recently though that could be illness.



Maybe you need a rest, Mark?


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## pglewis (Mar 22, 2018)

Fairly ridiculous 3bld scramble last night. It was generated by csTimer in WCA 3bld mode, it just didn't add any wide turns at the end of this one. As for me... flipped an edge 

L' D' R2 B2 U' R2 F2 R2 B2 L' D L2 U L2 R2 B R B'

Also got a 17.59 3x3 solve with a PLL skip at the coffee shop, that's my 3rd best single ever.


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## kbrune (Mar 22, 2018)

newtonbase said:


> I've just hit 50 4BLD attempts since my first solve. My success rate is a rather appalling 8%. I think I need to change how I practice. My memo has been getting worse recently though that could be illness.



I have considerably less attempts then you but I've been noticing the same problem in my weekly multi attempts. My memo is gradually getting worse.

I had a thought aobut it. I'm guessing it might be a sort of creative fatigue (I may be wrong). When I'm constantly trying to come up with ways for images to interact. I find that more and more, I'm at a loss for ideas. Im taking the 3 days before comp off of memoing in the hopes it'll reset my creative juices.


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## JanW (Mar 22, 2018)

pglewis said:


> Fairly ridiculous 3bld scramble last night. It was generated by csTimer in WCA 3bld mode, it just didn't add any wide turns at the end of this one. As for me... flipped an edge
> 
> L' D' R2 B2 U' R2 F2 R2 B2 L' D L2 U L2 R2 B R B'


Nice one! 1:46.45 (59.44) success for me. That would be PB. 

It was my 99th timed solve and 26th success for this year. Still waiting for accuracy to improve...


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## h2f (Mar 22, 2018)

pglewis said:


> Fairly ridiculous 3bld scramble last night. It was generated by csTimer in WCA 3bld mode, it just didn't add any wide turns at the end of this one. As for me... flipped an edge
> 
> L' D' R2 B2 U' R2 F2 R2 B2 L' D L2 U L2 R2 B R B'



There are scrambles without wide turns. 

39.91 - PB?  It looks like yes, but maybe no? I used blindfold of course and I throw up the cube to get random orientation. I wasnt warmed up so got few lockups.


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## Mike Hughey (Mar 22, 2018)

I just got a huge new PB at 2-7 speedsolve relay:
15:43.09

This is almost a minute faster than I've ever done it before (previous PB was 16:40.71). And amazingly it was done with freeslice on 5x5x5 through 7x7x7. I think I'm finally getting where I'm about as fast with freeslice as I am with AvG. I think two things helped:
1. I stopped trying to be as efficient, and focused on easy recognition. I now just solve all the white pieces first and store them on the left, and then all the blue pieces and store them on the right. I don't try to look for the best sets of pairings already built. Doing this has sped me up hugely, since I can look ahead so much better.
2. The new cubes are an amazing improvement. I'm still not quite as fast as I was with bad hardware at my best, but I'm getting close, and I know I have a lot of room for improvement just to get to the speed I was at before.

Now that I'm this motivated, I expect to be able to shatter all my former big cube personal bests over the next few months.


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## newtonbase (Mar 22, 2018)

h2f said:


> Maybe you need a rest, Mark?


I expect that's true. Its school holidays next week so I won't get my lunchtime practice anyway. Maybe I could work on my letter pair list and do some sighted centre execution practice if I get a minute here and there.


pglewis said:


> Fairly ridiculous 3bld scramble last night. It was generated by csTimer in WCA 3bld mode, it just didn't add any wide turns at the end of this one. As for me... flipped an edge
> 
> L' D' R2 B2 U' R2 F2 R2 B2 L' D L2 U L2 R2 B R B'
> 
> Also got a 17.59 3x3 solve with a PLL skip at the coffee shop, that's my 3rd best single ever.


Some really easy edge comms here but I made a bit of a hash of them. Got a 1:27 but should have been much quicker.


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## SpartanSailor (Mar 22, 2018)

Not my best 3BLD practice ... only 1/4. They were all at or better than 7 min and the success was 5:20.xx which is pretty good (my Pb is 4:56). 

Still feeling good about Charleston next Saturday (3/31). 

Picked up a new Cubicle WuShuang M 5x5 which arrived today too. Needs some breaking in, but clearly a far superior piece of hardware than my previous 5x5. It’s actually fun to play with, which means I’ll practice more now too. 

Good time to get some rest... I have the next week off to spend spring break with my son.


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## openseas (Mar 23, 2018)

CLL Smooth said:


> I turned 39 today. Despite it being just another day, these numbers are starting to make me feel old. I still cube



Happy birthday!

====

Regarding comm practice of one sticker (also known as Orozco), you don’t need to stick to a certain scramble. For example, if you run into J (RUB) but your comm includes only B (URB), then trace the next target on B sticker but memo B as J. When you solve for J, use twist alg from B to J.

I meant to switch to Orozco for months but finally did this week. Still slow but it will be improved as time goes by. Now, I’m using URB as helper, plan to switch to each sticker until to cover all.


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## JanW (Mar 24, 2018)

Finally got myself dragged to a comp, attending the Finnish Open this weekend.

Good news is that the first cube I ever solved in a competition was a successful blind solve. Bad news is that it was the first cube in my 1/3 mbld attempt, which was a dnf. Second mbld attempt also 1/3. In second attempt one cube was off by only one cycle and a +2. I haven't seen the results yet, but heard someone say that nobody got 3rd price, 2/3 would have been good enough for podium.

3bld was a disaster. 3 straight DNFs, all execution mistakes. First attempt was ok time, 2:04, both next solves over 4 minutes as I made mistakes during memo and had to redo parts. At home my success rate this year is barely over 25%, so couldn't hope for much more than 2 correct in a total of 9 attempted cubes.. I didn't see the time for my first mbld attempt, but the second was 18 minutes. Could have played it safer and taken a lot more time.

Also did 5x5 today. Cutoff was 2:45, I knew I wouldn't make it. PB at home is maybe 3:30. Don't remember, really never practice this event. Only relearned the parity alg earlier this week for the comp. Got one sub 3:40 in my two attempts and I was happy with that.

Tomorrow 2x2, 3x3 and 4x4. For 2x2 I just relearned Ortega. I'm happy if I get a sub-10. I also relearned 4x4 parity earlier this week. Cutoff is 1:50. I just did a 1:55 Ao25, best Ao12 was 1:51 and best single 1:33. With a good solve the cutoff is no problem, but I need some luck there.

3x3 I'll be very happy even with a sub-20 single. I noticed at the venue that my fingers and brain don't work like they do at home. I've actually never really solved a cube with many people present, nor in a noisy environment. It'll be interesting to see how that affects my 3x3.


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## kbrune (Mar 24, 2018)

Hey all. Decent day at comp so far. Got a 16.08 ave in 3x3 and a 14.47 single which was unexpected.

3:28.xy success in bld. 

Cheers!


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## newtonbase (Mar 24, 2018)

JanW said:


> Finally got myself dragged to a comp, attending the Finnish Open this weekend.
> 
> Good news is that the first cube I ever solved in a competition was a successful blind solve. Bad news is that it was the first cube in my 1/3 mbld attempt, which was a dnf. Second mbld attempt also 1/3. In second attempt one cube was off by only one cycle and a +2. I haven't seen the results yet, but heard someone say that nobody got 3rd price, 2/3 would have been good enough for podium.
> 
> ...


It's great that you are getting to compete. Good luck tomorrow. 


kbrune said:


> Hey all. Decent day at comp so far. Got a 16.08 ave in 3x3 and a 14.47 single which was unexpected.
> 
> 3:28.xy success in bld.
> 
> Cheers!


Excellent 3BLD result. Well done.


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## SpartanSailor (Mar 24, 2018)

kbrune said:


> Hey all. Decent day at comp so far. Got a 16.08 ave in 3x3 and a 14.47 single which was unexpected.
> 
> 3:28.xy success in bld.
> 
> Cheers!


Well done!


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## kbrune (Mar 24, 2018)

Just finished my multi attempt. 5/8 in 57 min. 
I'm happy and sad at the same time lol


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## openseas (Mar 24, 2018)

kbrune said:


> Hey all. Decent day at comp so far. Got a 16.08 ave in 3x3 and a 14.47 single which was unexpected.
> 
> 3:28.xy success in bld.
> 
> Cheers!



Great job! 



kbrune said:


> Just finished my multi attempt. 5/8 in 57 min.
> I'm happy and sad at the same time lol



Well done!


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## mark49152 (Mar 25, 2018)

Congrats @kbrune. That's pretty quick 3x3 too. Good luck today @JanW and anyone else competing.


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## h2f (Mar 25, 2018)

@kbrune, nice times. Congrats!
@JanW, good luck!


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## Logiqx (Mar 25, 2018)

Tabe said:


> Anything over ao12, you're supposed to chop off bottom 5% and top 5%.



Top and bottom 5% is correct, remembering to "round up".

Technically this means that it works for any number of solves... well, 3 upwards.


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## SpartanSailor (Mar 25, 2018)

JanW said:


> Also did 5x5 today. Cutoff was 2:45, I knew I wouldn't make it. PB at home is maybe 3:30. Don't remember, really never practice this event. Only relearned the parity alg earlier this week for the comp. Got one sub 3:40 in my two attempts and I was happy with that.



Good job! That is about where I’m at with 5x5 as well. I feel like the cutoffs for 5x5 are disproprtionately harder than fornsome other events. Well... in fact, all the big cubes seem like the cutoffs are really fast/difficult. Out hard cutoffs are usually faster than I could hope to make! Anyway,

Good luck today with 222, 333 and 444!


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## mitja (Mar 25, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> Good job! That is about where I’m at with 5x5 as well. I feel like the cutoffs for 5x5 are disproprtionately harder than fornsome other events. Well... in fact, all the big cubes seem like the cutoffs are really fast/difficult. Out hard cutoffs are usually faster than I could hope to make! Anyway,
> 
> Good luck today with 222, 333 and 444!


Agreed , the cutoffs on big cubes are very unfair comparing to smaller ones. I, know because of longer events, but anyway, cutoofs are not a least motivational. 5x5 is the hardest.


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## SpartanSailor (Mar 25, 2018)

mitja said:


> Agreed , the cutoffs on big cubes are very unfair comparing to smaller ones. I, know because of longer events, but anyway, cutoofs are not a least motivational. 5x5 is the hardest.


Right! There are some comps locally that give 5 min cutoff for 2x2 and only 3:30 for 6x6 and 4:00 for 7x7. ‍

I’m all for the soft cutoff in the interest of time, but there’s no incentive to even attempt 6 and 7s for me. I can barely make the hard cutoff for 5x5 at one of the upcoming comps... and that’s if I have a good day or spend a LOT of time practicing specifically for 5x5. 

On the other hand, my next weekend event has a 6:30 cutoff for 5x5.


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## JanW (Mar 25, 2018)

Had a pretty decent day today! 2x2 got an 8.25 single and 10.56 average. I've been doing 7s averages at home some times and know I could improve a lot if I practiced this event, but I don't think I'll bother...

3x3 I got a 18.74 single, but only 20.95 average. I was probably the most nervous for this, as it was the one I was supposed to know. Shame I couldn't quite perform at the same level as I do at home. 18.7 Ao5 would have been enough to advance to the next round. I'm still very happy with two sub-20 singles. My main goal was to get at least one.

4x4 was the big surprise. Yesterday I did 50 practice solves (never done a 4x4 Ao50 before), averaging 1:55. The cutoff was 1:50. First solve I messed up badly, sup-2 min. The rest were great and I got a 1:35 Ao5. I've lost my stats from last year, but I'm pretty sure I improved my pb single twice during this Ao5. First 1:24 on the third solve, then 1:23 last solve. For sure pb Ao5 as well! 

Overall it was an interesting experience. And yes, I did feel quite old... Afterwards I feel that I really need to focus now on bld events more. I'm a bit disappointed that I got nothing but DNFs. I must work on my comms to improve accuracy, then I can only improve next time! And then there's that word list... Bld is apparently not very big in Finland. Any result would have been enough to podium in Mbld (7/9 competitors DNFed), any result enough for second place in 4bld and 5bld, and everyone who got a success made it to the finals in 3bld (6/12 competitors). My long term goal is still to advance to larger cubes and larger mblds.

It would be nice to be able to get a 5x5 average one day. Have to cut a minute from my times. I think it should be doable. I've pretty much given up on 7x7. Bought a cube (which arrived damaged and I'm not sure if it's comp legal), did a couple of 20 minute solves and haven't touched it since. Cutoff in this comp was 6:00. Feels very much impossible right now.


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## Mike Hughey (Mar 25, 2018)

mitja said:


> Agreed , the cutoffs on big cubes are very unfair comparing to smaller ones. I, know because of longer events, but anyway, cutoofs are not a least motivational. 5x5 is the hardest.


I know this is generally the case, but that's just because short cutoff times make a much bigger difference running a competition for big cubes than they do for other events. Cutting a couple of minutes off the 5x5x5 cutoff times can make a difference in the time to run the event of an hour or more.

So generally if you give generous cutoff times for a big cube event, for most competitions it means you have to have one less event for that competition. Most competitions choose the extra event.

Back when I was running my Indiana competitions, I always tried to have as generous big cube cutoffs as possible. I can vouch for the fact that it was one of the most stress-inducing things I did to mu schedules. But for me it was worth the extra stress.


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## openseas (Mar 25, 2018)

Mike Hughey said:


> I know this is generally the case, but that's just because short cutoff times make a much bigger difference running a competition for big cubes than they do for other events. Cutting a couple of minutes off the 5x5x5 cutoff times can make a difference in the time to run the event of an hour or more.
> 
> So generally if you give generous cutoff times for a big cube event, for most competitions it means you have to have one less event for that competition. Most competitions choose the extra event.
> 
> Back when I was running my Indiana competitions, I always tried to have as generous big cube cutoffs as possible. I can vouch for the fact that it was one of the most stress-inducing things I did to mu schedules. But for me it was worth the extra stress.



Yes, as an organizer, always need to make a balance between number of events vs quality of each event (not that tighter cut-off time makes the event poor quality but...). Cut off of 666 & 777 makes huge difference in terms of scheduling.
Slightly different topic but related with big cubes, number of decent scramblers is also another factor when you run a competition. These days, Jonatan's groupify let you makes group based on times (you can also make alphabetical groups) which makes competition more or less fair but it makes issues when it comes to big cubes. I had to split top 4 big cubers into two separate group, Last week in Florida, all decent big cubers were in the same group - I had to scramble some of them - I've never solved big cubes with my eyes open (only know BLD methods . I had to turn extremely slowly not to mess up. It was quite painful.


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## newtonbase (Mar 25, 2018)

JanW said:


> Had a pretty decent day today! 2x2 got an 8.25 single and 10.56 average. I've been doing 7s averages at home some times and know I could improve a lot if I practiced this event, but I don't think I'll bother...
> 
> 3x3 I got a 18.74 single, but only 20.95 average. I was probably the most nervous for this, as it was the one I was supposed to know. Shame I couldn't quite perform at the same level as I do at home. 18.7 Ao5 would have been enough to advance to the next round. I'm still very happy with two sub-20 singles. My main goal was to get at least one.
> 
> ...


Well done .Some good results there 
I was very impressed that the 2nd place in MBLD was done OH.


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## JanW (Mar 25, 2018)

newtonbase said:


> Well done .Some good results there
> I was very impressed that the 2nd place in MBLD was done OH.


That was pretty impressive indeed! I saw the guy with an injured arm, but didn't realize he was the current mbld NR holder.


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## JanW (Mar 26, 2018)

Got a WCA ID. Now for the shocking reveal, my name isn't Jan..  Or actually it is. The first name on my passport is Jan, but I've always gone by my second name, Roger. I just never use that name online, prefer more anonymous screen names. Sorry for the confusion!

I lost my Maru lube at some point during the weekend. Had to order some more, which provided a nice opportunity to order a Wuque at the same time. I'm quite happy with my CangFeng, but haven't tried enough 4x4s to know how good it is in comparison to everything else out there.

Anyone here have experience with the Yuxin Little Magic? They have phenomenal reviews for that price class. At $3.40 a piece I'm considering getting a proper set of mbld cubes.


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## muchacho (Mar 26, 2018)

Hi Roger, welcome  ...and congrats, nice results for a first comp!


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## Duncan Bannon (Mar 26, 2018)

Read #17519 and the few pages around it. I really like the YLM (Yuxin Little Magic), But with magnets it makes the cube a lot more stable. I dont know what is needed in a blind cube, but I think stability is key (Don’t want to make any accidental moves). I magnetized about 4 of them. I believe the 4x1 N42’s had a nice click. I think 4x2 N35 also had a good click, but more of a bump mabye. If you know how to magnetize a 3x3 then a YLMM should be great. Assuming 10 cubes, $35 + $50 = $85 for some nice cubes. For me a cube takes about 1 hour to magnetize, so not bad.

Sorry for the magnet rant , but anyway. They YLM is a good cube, and easy to set up. I think stock tensions are too loose, but with some tensioning they _should _be good for multiblind. Adding magnets is not needed but I think it works well for this cube. Just be carful you don’t spill superglue on a sticker, delegate probably wont let that in.


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## newtonbase (Mar 26, 2018)

JanW said:


> Anyone here have experience with the Yuxin Little Magic? They have phenomenal reviews for that price class. At $3.40 a piece I'm considering getting a proper set of mbld cubes.


I agree with what @Duncan Bannon says. I use magnetic versions for blind and I use similar strength magnets. They are really nice, fast cubes.


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## pglewis (Mar 27, 2018)

I've started paying some attention to setup/restore move cancellations in my blind solves because, you know, one more thing to screw up my execution that won't make my solves significantly faster. I'm sure this has come up before but I'm suddenly unclear why OP corners uses speffz P as the swap position instead of M. The first move of the truncated Y-perm is an R, so you setup to P then immediately move it to M to do the swap. Seems to me like using M as the swap position and modifying the alg to (U' R' U') (R U R' F') (R U R' U') (R' F R2) reduces redundancy.


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## openseas (Mar 27, 2018)

pglewis said:


> I've started paying some attention to setup/restore move cancellations in my blind solves because, you know, one more thing to screw up my execution that won't make my solves significantly faster. I'm sure this has come up before but I'm suddenly unclear why OP corners uses speffz P as the swap position instead of M. The first move of the truncated Y-perm is an R, so you setup to P then immediately move it to M to do the swap. Seems to me like using M as the swap position and modifying the alg to (U' R' U') (R U R' F') (R U R' U') (R' F R2) reduces redundancy.



I can think of two reasons: 1) as you added R at the end, you're not saving any move counts doing so. 2) However, your setup is now same face as your buffer which makes setups more tricky / requires more moves.

Regarding working on OP optimization, if you want to invest more time and efforts, I suggest to move to either 3 style or Orozco. OP optimization can improve your bld solving time a little bit but ROI is not big. On top of that, other than OP, not applicable to any other method. This is one of the reason why R2 corner method is kinda phasing out. R2 setup is not easy & not much benefit at the end. That's why people recommend starting from M2/OP then move to 3 style (or through advanced M2/Orozco)

M2 edge is a little bit different, though. Since M2 can be linked to commutators nicely, moving to advanced M2 as intermediate method is quite recommended.


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## h2f (Mar 27, 2018)

JanW said:


> Got a WCA ID. Now for the shocking reveal, my name isn't Jan..  Or actually it is. The first name on my passport is Jan, but I've always gone by my second name, Roger. I just never use that name online, prefer more anonymous screen names. Sorry for the confusion!



I've noticed it on Saturday looking for your results on cubecomps. Surprise - there's no any Jan. Readning your relation gave a tip what's your name. Hi Roger. Congrats about your results. 



JanW said:


> Anyone here have experience with the Yuxin Little Magic? They have phenomenal reviews for that price class. At $3.40 a piece I'm considering getting a proper set of mbld cubes.



It's a very good a cheap cube. I got two - the black one and stickerless. The black one had a crappy awfull stikcers and I removed them. The stickerless is much better - shades are fine with nice dark blue. I've put magnets in both to make them more stable. I also think about buying a bunch of them. Polish top blinder Krzysiek Bober got 30 and uses them in mbld.


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## JanW (Mar 27, 2018)

Thanks for the tip @h2f! I was considering the stickered version, glad I didn't make that mistake.

I'll order a few stickerless now, then see how I like them.

Edit: I ended up ordering just one Little Magic and also a MF3RS2 and a couple of other praised budget cubes. Want to try a few different before deciding. I saw some reviews that said the YLM was very wobbly compared to the MF3RS2. Based on that I think the latter might suit me better.


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## h2f (Mar 27, 2018)

You welcome, @JanW. I'm gonna to order 10 YLM. If I could chose MR3RS2 is better option in my opinion - last NR single was made by Łukasz Burliga on magnetized version. MF3RS2 and YLM have very different feeling.


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## pglewis (Mar 27, 2018)

JanW said:


> Edit: I ended up ordering just one Little Magic and also a MF3RS2 and a couple of other praised budget cubes. Want to try a few different before deciding. I saw some reviews that said the YLM was very wobbly compared to the MF3RS2. Based on that I think the latter might suit me better.



I think the YLM has a unique feel and will be a "love it or hate it" puzzle but it's hard to beat for the price IMO. The stickerless has a frosted texture that some people don't care for-- I actually like it-- but I've found it wears down to unnoticeable fairly quickly with use.

The MF3RS2 is definitely a more stable base cube (I have an SCS magnetic version on the way) but it's also a bit more expensive.



openseas said:


> I can think of two reasons: 1) as you added R at the end, you're not saving any move counts doing so. 2) However, your setup is now same face as your buffer which makes setups more tricky / requires more moves.



Yeah my thoughts were that, with both opening and closing R face turns, I end up considering cancellations both before and after the alg. Yanking the opening R move means the alg starts with a U', which will never cancel out with setup moves, just leaving any final R face cancellation. But I quickly discovered your #2 above while experimenting. And then there's: 3) muscle memory is already established for A/P swaps.



openseas said:


> Regarding working on OP optimization, if you want to invest more time and efforts, I suggest to move to either 3 style or Orozco. OP optimization can improve your bld solving time a little bit but ROI is not big. On top of that, other than OP, not applicable to any other method. This is one of the reason why R2 corner method is kinda phasing out. R2 setup is not easy & not much benefit at the end. That's why people recommend starting from M2/OP then move to 3 style (or through advanced M2/Orozco)



I'm now in a "no new learning" moratorium with comps coming up in April and May but I think I'll start the process of attacking corner comms after that. OP corners isn't what's really holding me back yet.



openseas said:


> M2 edge is a little bit different, though. Since M2 can be linked to commutators nicely, moving to advanced M2 as intermediate method is quite recommended.



I've incorporated a couple of advanced M2 things: M slice + non M slice target pairs and the C/W and W/C specific swaps. I have a list with more tricks from Mark's famous thread to add later.

3bld practice is on the daily menu again and going well. Got 2/4 untimed at the coffee shop today (started off 2/2). Sticker to Speffz translation and tracing have improved a lot so I'm close to or below my memo target for sub 5 min.


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## mark49152 (Mar 27, 2018)

pglewis said:


> Yeah my thoughts were that, with both opening and closing R face turns, I end up considering cancellations both before and after the alg. Yanking the opening R move means the alg starts with a U', which will never cancel out with setup moves, just leaving any final R face cancellation. But I quickly discovered your #2 above while experimenting. And then there's: 3) muscle memory is already established for A/P swaps.


@openseas is spot on with both points. Also @h2f made the point that setups become like algs in their own right. I still think calling them algs implies more effort to learn them than is actually the case, but once practised enough they fuse with the alg and enter muscle memory in the same way. Example: OP setup for J corner. I do R2 D'. Start with thumb on top and do R2' then push D' with left ring finger and it flows smoothly into the R U'... just like a single alg. My brain still thinks of it as a setup to an alg but my muscle memory feels it as a unified movement.


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## pglewis (Mar 27, 2018)

mark49152 said:


> @openseas is spot on with both points. Also @h2f made the point that setups become like algs in their own right. I still think calling them algs implies more effort to learn them than is actually the case, but once practised enough they fuse with the alg and enter muscle memory in the same way. Example: OP setup for J corner. I do R2 D'. Start with thumb on top and do R2' then push D' with left ring finger and it flows smoothly into the R U'... just like a single alg. My brain still thinks of it as a setup to an alg but my muscle memory feels it as a unified movement.



Yeah, it was a mostly pointless thought experiment that stemmed from my OCD urge to cancel some moves. My actual plan to optimize OP corners is to stop using OP corners . 

I do like that J setup, simply never considered it after settling on my setups early and on my own. I've been moving any targets on the F face to L then over to P. R2 D' definitely beats F2 D.


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## newtonbase (Mar 27, 2018)

pglewis said:


> Yeah, it was a mostly pointless thought experiment that stemmed from my OCD urge to cancel some moves. My actual plan to optimize OP corners is to stop using OP corners .
> 
> I do like that J setup, simply never considered it after settling on my setups early and on my own. I've been moving any targets on the F face to L then over to P. R2 D' definitely beats F2 D.


I use the same awful setup for J and my W is nearly as bad but it's probably too late to change. Comms are the cure.


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## openseas (Mar 27, 2018)

newtonbase said:


> Comms are the cure.



haha, it's true!

As @mark49152 stated, it doesn't seem to be fair to describe comms as algs since they can be derived easily intuitively. I think one of us said that before - learning comms are more like learning intuitive F2L.

Since switching to Orozco (corners, ULB buffer, URB helper), I'm averaging 2 min which is 10~20s slower than my OP era. The main reasons are 1) comms are still not as fast as trained OP 2) need to think (kinda visualize the execution) 3) also even/odd consideration. However, those slow solves which I felt like 3~4 min extremely slow turned out to be 2min solves. The beauty of move count + optimized comms (I'm mostly using Ishaan's) are quite effective. What I'm saying is that I'm turning really slow but end up with not so bad times. Not spamming tps by OP is quite nice feeling + adding accuracy.

I'm summarizing Advanced M2 method (collection of many experts' works including @mark49152 , @Mike Hughey and many others) - will publish next Month once completed.


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## newtonbase (Mar 27, 2018)

openseas said:


> I'm summarizing Advanced M2 method (collection of many experts' works including @mark49152 , @Mike Hughey and many others) - will


I look forward to seeing that. I'm doing a lot of edge comms in untimed solves but I'm still learning ways to optimise M2 (and r2) that are nearly as quick to execute and far easier to do without thinking.


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## h2f (Mar 27, 2018)

openseas said:


> What I'm saying is that I'm turning really slow but end up with not so bad times. Not spamming tps by OP is quite nice feeling + adding accuracy.



I think it took me almost 2 years to be quite fluent in execution comms but I've wasted a lot of time not to practing comms. Doing solves is not enough. I've changed many of them in December using mostly Ishaan's list though for some cases Im with my ways of doing. And sometimes I think that F/F' setups are just better (and simpler) than 3-4 moves to setup the case. I think now I'm ready to sub-1 constantly.


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## mark49152 (Mar 27, 2018)

newtonbase said:


> I use the same awful setup for J and my W is nearly as bad but it's probably too late to change. Comms are the cure.


They are... But you still need that last OP corner in 50% of solves (unless you're doing parity differently).

I used the F2 D setup for a long time but optimised my OP when I optimised my comms recently. For W, I used to use D2 F' but have switched to R2 F. No idea how I managed to pick such bad setups in the first place


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## newtonbase (Mar 27, 2018)

mark49152 said:


> I used the F2 D setup for a long time but optimised my OP when I optimised my comms recently. For W, I used to use D2 F' but have switched to R2 F. No idea how I managed to pick such bad setups in the first place


Yup. That's the one I use. The better one is very obvious. I don't know where it came from either.


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## newtonbase (Mar 27, 2018)

Just checked my notes and the bad setups for J and W are on Noah's tutorial vids


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## mark49152 (Mar 27, 2018)

newtonbase said:


> Just checked my notes and the bad setups for J and W are on Noah's tutorial vids


That'll be where I got them, but no excuses anyway . I also changed V from D' F' to R' D' and started using J perm for D instead of F R'. 

Any suggestions for F? I hate the F2 setup but can't find anything better. Not really happy with I and X either.


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## h2f (Mar 28, 2018)

About OP targets and parity thing. Have you thought about doing parity else way? I know you do edges first and it means switching UB and UL during it. With last target OP parity you do in a range 17-19 moves (Jperm or Yperm with 2 moves setup). I think it's closer to second amount. If no switch UB and UL you need to add 7 moves. It means 19-26 moves.

You can do parity else way. Switching UBR and UBL while corners means 4-5 moves - all comms in a cycle UBL-...-UBR are nice and easy. During edges you need to add M2 to correct M slice. (+1 move). In the end you do modified Jperms
or Jperm - all 11-13 moves. This means 17-19 moves on average which is close to first way of dealing with parity and shorter to the second. Quite often last target is UB or BU because of cycle breaks so you do only alg for a last target.

These are just few thoughts why I do it this way.


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## mark49152 (Mar 28, 2018)

@h2f - Do you mean a modified J perm to switch UBL-UBR and UB-DF? Do you have this alg?


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## h2f (Mar 28, 2018)

mark49152 said:


> @h2f - Do you mean a modified J perm to switch UBL-UBR and UB-DF? Do you have this alg?



Yes, Mark. I found them on Meneghetti's list:
- with DF-UB -  U l R U2 r' U' r U2 l' U R' U2
- with DF-BU - U l U' R' U l' U2 r U' r' U2 R U'.


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## newtonbase (Mar 28, 2018)

mark49152 said:


> That'll be where I got them, but no excuses anyway . I also changed V from D' F' to R' D' and started using J perm for D instead of F R'.
> 
> Any suggestions for F? I hate the F2 setup but can't find anything better. Not really happy with I and X either.


Looks like I need to change my V too. No idea on F I'm afraid.


h2f said:


> Yes, Mark. I found them on Meneghetti's list:
> - with DF-UB -  U l R U2 r' U' r U2 l' U R' U2
> - with DF-BU - U l U' R' U l' U2 r U' r' U2 R U'.


Wow. He has a parity alg for each letter. I already do the edge swap so it's not really worth me changing but its a nice method.


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## h2f (Mar 28, 2018)

newtonbase said:


> Wow. He has a parity alg for each letter. I already do the edge swap so it's not really worth me changing but its a nice method.



The earlier version of the list had only these two algs. The list of parity alg looks complicated in a first glance but I can notice that few of algs are just setups to Jperm or Tperm


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## JanW (Mar 28, 2018)

I'm working on turning my 3-cycles more into algs as well. So far I've worked everything out during the solves based on the same principles, but now I want to optimize the tricky cases.

Here's an interesting alternative I just found for UF-BD-UB, which always has been a tricky case:

U r' U R' U' R' U' R' U R U r R U'

It's a U setup to a U perm with a wide r. To shoot the cycle in the opposite direction I use same alg with U' setup.

I also have a few cases that I notice I can perform the fastest if I do some tricky cube rotations. From what I've seen, blinders don't usually fancy rotations. In particular UF-DB-RB flows very nicely as

x' y' R U R' U' R' U' R' U R U

This is also a U perm with cancellations taken into account. The rotation isn't any slower than any other regrip, I think. Should I still avoid rotations like this?


----------



## h2f (Mar 28, 2018)

JanW said:


> Should I still avoid rotations like this?



Definietly you should avoid y/y' rotations. I think you should start using slices - they make edges much easier. Doing own alg really helps in learning but it's good to check top blinders lists to see if there is a better option.



JanW said:


> Here's an interesting alternative I just found for UF-BD-UB, which always has been a tricky case:
> x' y' R U R' U' R' U' R' U R U



For example Daniel Lin has this: [U' M' U': [M', U2]] which is U' M' U' M' U2 M U' M U which is shorter and with no roatation.


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## mark49152 (Mar 28, 2018)

h2f said:


> Yes, Mark. I found them on Meneghetti's list:
> - with DF-UB -  U l R U2 r' U' r U2 l' U R' U2
> - with DF-BU - U l U' R' U l' U2 r U' r' U2 R U'.


I only spent 5 minutes but I can't figure out how to finger trick these without uncomfortable regrips. 

The choices for solving parity and last corner target are...

Parity alg (7) + Y-perm (15) + OP setups (4 max) = 26 STM
UL-UB swap (0) + Y-perm (15) + OP setups (4 max) = 19 STM
M2 (1) + extra corner comm (10 typical) + alg from above (12) = 23 STM
Given that Y-perm will have better TPS than the above two algs I still think #1 beats #3. However, #2 beats both. 

I asked on here a couple of years ago about number of pairs and someone posted a lengthy proof that with UB-UL swap, there will be one more edge target in 50% of cases and one less in 50% compared to no-swap-and-parity-alg. Given that knowing both methods can be advantageous, e.g. to revert to regular parity to avoid a flip, I expect it would shorten solves in >50% of cases, which is good for an event ranked by single.

My plan remains the same - switch to UB-UL swap. I have been practising tracing that way and am about 1 second slower on average than before. I'm not going to switch to solving that way until after High Wycombe.



newtonbase said:


> Wow. He has a parity alg for each letter. I already do the edge swap so it's not really worth me changing but its a nice method.


I think Gianfranco mentioned at Worlds that he has a parity alg for every corner/edge sticker pair. Like, ~400 algs 



JanW said:


> The rotation isn't any slower than any other regrip, I think. Should I still avoid rotations like this?


The general advice to avoid rotations is good, but it's a generalisation. Personally I prefer to rotate when it gives an easy case, but limit myself to z and x because they are quite fast and fairly comfortable. I won't even do x' or z' because I don't want to end up with adjacent pairs that require x2 or z2 between them. 

For example, z rotations give nice <R,U,D> comms for pairs that combine I, U, S and pairs that combine M, N, O, P. For the latter it would be more intuitive to do z' and interchange on top, but instead I do z for both and interchange M, N, O, P on the D layer to avoid ever needing z2.

Having said that, I'm not keen on my I, U, S solutions because they are A perms. The regrip to do Lw' is more annoying than the z rotation, so they are on my list to get changed.

The only ones I do x for now are I, J, K, L pairs. The x rotation is more awkward than z but the algs are fast enough that it's worth it. Like for KL, I do [x: [R' D2 R, U']]. 

This all suits me for now but it's not as good as what the fast guys do. If I ever get close to sub-50 I will look to eliminate x rotations and Lw/Lw' regrips, although I might keep z rotations for M, N, O, P a while longer.


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## h2f (Mar 28, 2018)

mark49152 said:


> I only spent 5 minutes but I can't figure out how to finger trick these without uncomfortable regrips.
> 
> The choices for solving parity and last corner target are...
> 
> ...



The second one is just Jperm with wide moves. I think Feliks uses this one (without wide moves) in normal solves. I agree the first is not fingertrick friendly but I used to it.

In the second option UL-UB swap means 1 extra target during edges, I think (around 4 moves?). It's similar to extra comm in 3rd option when you solve last target and add another target. It's really hard to compare all of them but I think option 3 has a potence because few edges - the most I break during cycles like UR, UB, UL - can be solved to pure algs like Jperm. For example if I finish with UR I do last cycle UB-UR and got pure Jperm which is fast.


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## JanW (Mar 28, 2018)

h2f said:


> For example Daniel Lin has this: [U' M' U': [M', U2]] which is U' M' U' M' U2 M U' M U which is shorter and with no roatation.


You quoted the wrong alg there. For that case I use the first alg I listed, no rotation.

My problem with slices is mainly that I'm really bad at them. When I've been training with my bldtrainer, the cycles I solve with 4 move commutators like M' U2 M U2 tend to be among the slowest. This is in part because I'm still not seeing the direction of that comm in an instant, need an extra second to figure it out, but also because my M moves are so slow. That example alg from Daniel Lin takes me half an eternity to execute. Maybe I should spend 6 months doing roux, then it would become more comfortable...



h2f said:


> Definietly you should avoid y/y' rotations.


What's so special about y rotation? In the example I gave, which started with x' y' R, the right thumb stays on the same face of the cube to immediately strat the R move. Flows very nicely imo. The rotation back is a bit awkward though.


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## h2f (Mar 28, 2018)

JanW said:


> ou quoted the wrong alg there. For that case I use the first alg I listed, no rotation.
> 
> My problem with slices is mainly that I'm really bad at them.



Sorry, I've missed it. I know the problem with M slices but learning them - and others like E or S - leads to many possiblities. The direction is a matter of practice. For example I know what happens on cube with M, D2 alg but it was hard to me to memorize whats going on with M', D2. Finally I used to it.



JanW said:


> What's so special about y rotation?



For me it's around 1 second lost, maybe more. But of course it's personal and there are situations when it's needed.


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## mark49152 (Mar 28, 2018)

h2f said:


> The second one is just Jperm with wide moves. I think Feliks uses this one (without wide moves) in normal solves. I agree the first is not fingertrick friendly but I used to it.


Ah yes I didn't notice that. I don't use that J perm. I've never been able to get fast at switching between L and R faces. When there's a good <L,U,R> solution I usually z and do it <R,U,D> instead, like the comms I mentioned above. I doubt that would work well with wide turns though.



h2f said:


> In the second option UL-UB swap means 1 extra target during edges, I think (around 4 moves?). It's similar to extra comm in 3rd option when you solve last target and add another target.


As I wrote above, it's one extra target for 50% of solves and one less target for 50%, so net change of zero.


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## h2f (Mar 28, 2018)

mark49152 said:


> As I wrote above, it's one extra target for 50% of solves and one less target for 50%, so net change of zero.



Ah ok. I didnt understand it at first time.


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## newtonbase (Mar 28, 2018)

My solutions are based on M slices too I'm afraid 


JanW said:


> UF-BD-UB,


U M' U M' U2 M U M U'


JanW said:


> UF-DB-RB


U' R' U M2 U' R U M2


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## Logiqx (Mar 28, 2018)

FYI. I've updated the oldies rankings:
https://github.com/Logiqx/wca-ipy/blob/master/README.md

The unofficial spreadsheet has gone a little quiet recently. No PBs guys?
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1XEEV3LObw7cHNW6S_AZdHJWqKLQFoXRW0wwnDneags4/edit?usp=sharing

I've started doing a bit of 2x2 practice. My latest session was a 4.55 Ao50.


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## JanW (Mar 28, 2018)

newtonbase said:


> U' R' U M2 U' R U M2


That's a nice alg!  But appears to do UF-DB-BR... For that one I use D' R' U R U R U R' U' R' U' D. Yours would probably be better, if I can learn how to use it. Mine is derived from my edge system and I can immediately identify how to do it, even if I don't remember anything about what algs I've used for what case.


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## muchacho (Mar 28, 2018)

Another 5000 timed solves done (in like 3 month and a half). I've improved around 0.3 seconds, which at least is more than last 2 times.


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## newtonbase (Mar 28, 2018)

JanW said:


> That's a nice alg!  But appears to do UF-DB-BR... For that one I use D' R' U R U R U R' U' R' U' D. Yours would probably be better, if I can learn how to use it. Mine is derived from my edge system and I can immediately identify how to do it, even if I don't remember anything about what algs I've used for what case.


Apologies. Try F R2 F' M2 F R2 F' M2

Edit: You could always use an x rotation to switch to U moves instead of F.


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## Mike Hughey (Mar 28, 2018)

Wow, all the recommendations against y rotations. I probably do at least 1/3 of my BLD algs with y rotations as a setup; I often find myself not having to rotate back for several algs in a row because I do so many of them after a y' rotation. It is true it's almost always specifically a y' rotation; that just sets up to so many nice commutators in so many situations.


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## newtonbase (Mar 28, 2018)

Mike Hughey said:


> Wow, all the recommendations against y rotations. I probably do at least 1/3 of my BLD algs with y rotations as a setup; I often find myself not having to rotate back for several algs in a row because I do so many of them after a y' rotation. It is true it's almost always specifically a y' rotation; that just sets up to so many nice commutators in so many situations.


I don't do any for 3BLD but once I get further into edge comms it would cut down on S moves which I dislike. 
I do use them for 4BLD centres.


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## mitja (Mar 28, 2018)

I see you all use UF buffer. I am still on DF. i am intrigued to switch to UF, but first I want to go on some comp with what i am used to. I use some y rotations when I do +/x centres. It is hard not to use it, much easier to 3-cycle centres.


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## h2f (Mar 28, 2018)

mitja said:


> I see you all use UF buffer. I am still on DF.



I guess it's opposite and most of us use DF. Anyway I use DF and I'm not going to switch. 



Mike Hughey said:


> I probably do at least 1/3 of my BLD algs with y rotations as a setup; I often find myself not having to rotate back for several algs in a row because I do so many of them after a y' rotation.



I had a bunch of algs for corners with y/y' rotation but I found on Ishaan's list that they can be exchange with setups like D/D' or R etc.


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## mark49152 (Mar 28, 2018)

mitja said:


> I see you all use UF buffer. I am still on DF.


I'm DF and have no plans to switch. UF is trendy but I've yet to see any compelling explanation why it's objectively better than DF.


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## newtonbase (Mar 28, 2018)

mitja said:


> I see you all use UF buffer. I am still on DF. i am intrigued to switch to UF, but first I want to go on some comp with what i am used to. I use some y rotations when I do +/x centres. It is hard not to use it, much easier to 3-cycle centres.


I'm DF too hence my confusion coming up with the comm for @JanW


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## mitja (Mar 28, 2018)

Ok, so mostly DF. I would understand it is easier to track pieces during memo with UF. what about 3-cycles corners? Do you use UBL buffer of URF? Do you switch buffer a lot? I move buffer on centres sometimes, when it is in the way of a setup, but just sometimes.


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## newtonbase (Mar 28, 2018)

mitja said:


> Ok, so mostly DF. I would understand it is easier to track pieces during memo with UF. what about 3-cycles corners? Do you use UBL buffer of URF? Do you switch buffer a lot? I move buffer on centres sometimes, when it is in the way of a setup, but just sometimes.


I use UBL but no buffer switching.


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## pglewis (Mar 28, 2018)

All this talk has made me immediately change my OP corner setups for J, K, V, W, and G. My execution is still ~1:30 or a little more and it's not difficult to make those changes at my safe speed. D/F/I is just a nuisance, being on both the U and L faces, which leaves initial F face turns or rotation as a necessary evil. 

On rotations: I do use x' rotations during M2 now for E/F/G/M/O/P to avoid B face turns and find it very natural after practicing that way for a little while.


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## mark49152 (Mar 28, 2018)

mitja said:


> Ok, so mostly DF. I would understand it is easier to track pieces during memo with UF.


I don't see why it would be easier to track pieces with UF. 

I use UBL for corners.



pglewis said:


> On rotations: I do use x' rotations during M2 now for E/F/G/M/O/P to avoid B face turns and find it very natural after practicing that way for a little while.


Yes that is a good point. I was thinking of corners when I commented above. For edges I do X rotations a lot.


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## Logiqx (Mar 28, 2018)

muchacho said:


> Another 5000 timed solves done (in like 3 month and a half). I've improved around 0.3 seconds, which at least is more than last 2 times.
> View attachment 8982 View attachment 8983



Let us know when you pass 65,535 / 0xffff timed solves.


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## SpartanSailor (Mar 28, 2018)

Quick comp question for BLD:

After finishing your solve, do you (or may you) look before stopping the timer or do you have to stop the timer before looking?

I realise that once you look, you can touch the cube again, but I’m wondering about finding the timer to stop it. Or... am I over thinking it?


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## newtonbase (Mar 28, 2018)

pglewis said:


> All this talk has made me immediately change my OP corner setups for J, K, V, W, and G. My execution is still ~1:30 or a little more and it's not difficult to make those changes at my safe speed. D/F/I is just a nuisance, being on both the U and L faces, which leaves initial F face turns or rotation as a necessary evil.
> 
> On rotations: I do use x' rotations during M2 now for E/F/G/M/O/P to avoid B face turns and find it very natural after practicing that way for a little while.


What are you using for G?


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## newtonbase (Mar 28, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> Quick comp question for BLD:
> 
> After finishing your solve, do you (or may you) look before stopping the timer or do you have to stop the timer before looking?
> 
> I realise that once you look, you can touch the cube again, but I’m wondering about finding the timer to stop it. Or... am I over thinking it?


Yes, I believe you can look but don't touch. The timer is easy to find though.


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## pglewis (Mar 28, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> Quick comp question for BLD:
> 
> After finishing your solve, do you (or may you) look before stopping the timer or do you have to stop the timer before looking?
> 
> I realise that once you look, you can touch the cube again, but I’m wondering about finding the timer to stop it. Or... am I over thinking it?



If the competitor is not touching the puzzle, they may remove the blindfold before they stop the timer. They must not touch the puzzle until the end of the attempt. Penalty for touching the puzzle: disqualification of the attempt (DNF).

https://www.worldcubeassociation.org/regulations/#B5c

[Edit: my lone official attempt was with a Stackmat and it was easy to find with the blindfold on, keeping in mind I'm very familiar since I use a Stackmat at home]



newtonbase said:


> What are you using for G?



I was doing F2 R', now D2 R


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## newtonbase (Mar 28, 2018)

pglewis said:


> If the competitor is not touching the puzzle, they may remove the blindfold before they stop the timer. They must not touch the puzzle until the end of the attempt. Penalty for touching the puzzle: disqualification of the attempt (DNF).
> 
> https://www.worldcubeassociation.org/regulations/#B5c
> 
> ...


Damn. I was hoping you were going to give me something better. This discussion has left G as my worst setup. It's not very nice for comms either.


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## pglewis (Mar 28, 2018)

newtonbase said:


> Damn. I was hoping you were going to give me something better. This discussion has left G as my worst setup. It's not very nice for comms either.



Nope, sorry, I was actually doing something worse before


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## Mike Hughey (Mar 28, 2018)

newtonbase said:


> Yes, I believe you can look but don't touch. The timer is easy to find though.


Best strategy - stop the timer before removing the blindfold (but do be careful not to reset it!), then remove the blindfold and then double-check to make sure the timer is stopped. And then be very careful not to touch the cube, no matter how tempted you are!


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## openseas (Mar 28, 2018)

newtonbase said:


> Just checked my notes and the bad setups for J and W are on Noah's tutorial vids



For W op setup, grip is important. grip to UR & DR, right thumb on UR, (normal grip is FR & BR), after R’2 F (not R2 F, if you know what I mean), you can start Y perm without regrip.


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## mark49152 (Mar 28, 2018)

newtonbase said:


> Damn. I was hoping you were going to give me something better. This discussion has left G as my worst setup. It's not very nice for comms either.


Must be your comms - I find G one of the better stickers .

I use D2 R setup, although I think it's slightly faster to setup lefty D2 flick to this O alg which flows a bit like Jb perm and starts with thumb on bottom: F R2 U' R' U' R U R' F' R U R' U' R'


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## newtonbase (Mar 28, 2018)

mark49152 said:


> Must be your comms - I find G one of the better stickers .


My comms are rubbish and are unlikely to get much better due to the time required to learn/optimise them.


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## openseas (Mar 28, 2018)

newtonbase said:


> My comms are rubbish and are unlikely to get much better due to the time required to learn/optimise them.



G = LFD? It's one of the easiest & fast comms for corners. Wondering which one you're suffering from.


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## pglewis (Mar 28, 2018)

So close... 16.90 3x3 single, two hundredths off my long standing outlier. Mounted fish + Ga Perm, thankfully no mis-execution on Ga _this_ time. I'm ridiculously overdue for a new outlier.

Sub 18s are still rare enough that I've tracked all 8 of 'em. Four of them were this month.


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## CLL Smooth (Mar 29, 2018)

pglewis said:


> So close... 16.90 3x3 single, two hundredths off my long standing outlier. Mounted fish + Ga Perm, thankfully no mis-execution on Ga _this_ time. I'm ridiculously overdue for a new outlier.
> 
> Sub 18s are still rare enough that I've tracked all 8 of 'em. Four of them were this month.


You’re obviously capable of these times more regularly. I know it might sound redundant but this advice is sound: work on that slow turning. Even if you keep effing stuff up, your lookahead is the most important thing to get faster. Also, the more mistakes you make, the more you will learn. My advice is don’t turn off the timer just try not to care about it.


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## mitja (Mar 29, 2018)

mark49152 said:


> I don't see why it would be easier to track pieces with UF.
> 
> I use U.





mark49152 said:


> I don't see why it would be easier to track pieces with UF.
> 
> I use UBL for corners.
> 
> ...


I meant tracking for sighted rehearsing. I have to check D face for DF buffer , I guess it would be easier to check U face?


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## SpartanSailor (Mar 29, 2018)

Thanks for the earlier answer... I thought I had read that in the regs too.
My mind is mush right now... I managed to get a LOT of time with my puzzles today. Had a good BLD session to start and then did as much as my head could handle of the weekly comp.... 222,333,444,555,234,2345,2BLD, 3BLD, mega, pyra, Skewb... then a 3x3 session. I was crushing last week and now just a couple days out from my Charleston comp, I’m definitely slower. Oh well... probably just fatigue from the day. 

I did get an awesome 4x4 PB single of 1:08.90!!! That’s a HUGE improvement and even had an OLL parity. This weekend, I’d take 1:25 or better and would be thrilled with a sub-1:20 for 4x4. As thrilled as I am about that PB single, I’m really not too concerned with anything other than 3BLD and 3x3 (in that order) for this weekend. I’ve put more time into my 3x3 practice than I have before. I’ll be a little disappointed if I don’t have a good Average or single in there somewhere. That said, 3BLD is my priority for this weekend. 

I'm ever so slightly interested to consider upping my BLD game after this weekend too. I’ll have to look into M2 for edges and play with that some. But I’m also intrigued by 4BLD


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## One Wheel (Mar 29, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> I’m also intrigued by 4BLD



Now that I've advanced to the point that I still can't do 3BLD I'm getting curious about 4BLD too. I looked up some instructions for U2 last night, now I just need to figure out how to do the last few r-slice targets that aren't intuitive from M2, and I'll be set to fail at another event!


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## SpartanSailor (Mar 29, 2018)

One Wheel said:


> Now that I've advanced to the point that I still can't do 3BLD I'm getting curious about 4BLD too. I looked up some instructions for U2 last night, now I just need to figure out how to do the last few r-slice targets that aren't intuitive from M2, and I'll be set to fail at another event!


I don’t mind “failing” per se... I just enjoy learning new stuff and BLD is a wide open field of new stuff to learn.

Does anyone get to where they can do 3BLD 100% of the time? It just seems like there are too many variables to guarantee success. Not the least of which is pushing memo and execution times. I’m comfortably at 7-8 minutes. I’m not likely to push that until a get a solid competition success. (Which I’m hoping for this weekend)


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## One Wheel (Mar 29, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> I don’t mind “failing” per se... I just enjoy learning new stuff and BLD is a wide open field of new stuff to learn.


Same here. Sorry if my post came across wrong, I'm just a little excited about working on big blind, and I feel like by rights I should have a better success rate than (roughly, iirc among timed solves) 2/60 before I start moving on. I'm jumping the gun a little bit, but that knowledge isn't going to stop me from keeping on jumping it.


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## openseas (Mar 29, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> Does anyone get to where they can do 3BLD 100% of the time? It just seems like there are too many variables to guarantee success.



Top BLDers say that "if you have extremely high success rate, it means that you're not pushing enough - in terms of your memo". I guess people will try to get faster by cutting down your memo when you reach to the point you most likely success. If your success rate is 70~80%, then, you may want to push your memo.

Big BLDs are quite fun - new challenges. Have fun!


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## SpartanSailor (Mar 29, 2018)

One Wheel said:


> Same here. Sorry if my post came across wrong, I'm just a little excited about working on big blind, and I feel like by rights I should have a better success rate than (roughly, iirc among timed solves) 2/60 before I start moving on. I'm jumping the gun a little bit, but that knowledge isn't going to stop me from keeping on jumping it.



Well... depends, I suppose, how you think about things. I can see that building on top of a skill before “mastering” the skill is a set up for frustration and failure. On the other hand, these are puzzles and fun/entertainment. So if you’re interested, follow that interest! I suspect you will see gains in 3BLD by learning bigger blinds. But what do I know? I only started myself!! Hahahaha.


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## mark49152 (Mar 29, 2018)

mitja said:


> I meant tracking for sighted rehearsing. I have to check D face for DF buffer , I guess it would be easier to check U face?


Yeah I've heard that before but I don't get it. I still have to look at all 12 pieces, right? If I don't check DF at the start, I have to check it later. Plus, I've already looked at the four bottom corners so usually peek at DF and know what it is before even starting edge memo. If there's any tracing advantage in starting at UF, it's minimal IMHO, and there are better ways to optimise memo.

Some people say UF gives better edge comms, and that's the main reason to think it could be better. However, that's debatable, and subjective.



SpartanSailor said:


> Does anyone get to where they can do 3BLD 100% of the time?


As @openseas said, if your accuracy is 100% then you're not pushing speed hard enough. Personally, for timed sessions I aim for 50-70% accuracy. If over 70% then I'm either having a lucky day or being too cautious. If under 50% then I'm doing something wrong. I try not to assume my mistake is going too fast. Instead I figure out what weakness is causing me to fail while going this fast and work on fixing that weakness.

Sometimes I set a countdown timer to beep after a few seconds and use that to limit my memo time and force myself to rush. When training this way, I'm aiming for less than 50% . As soon as I hit 50% accuracy it's too easy and I knock a second off the timer.


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## h2f (Mar 29, 2018)

mark49152 said:


> Some people say UF gives better edge comms, and that's the main reason to think it could be better. However, that's debatable, and subjective.



Agree, however I think sometimes that top blinders see something that I'm not aware. Ishaan, Daniel and others have switched to UF and say it's bette buffer. And only one Polish top blinder uses DF.



mark49152 said:


> As @openseas said, if your accuracy is 100% then you're not pushing speed hard enough. Personally, for timed sessions I aim for 50-70% accuracy. If over 70% then I'm either having a lucky day or being too cautious. If under 50% then I'm doing something wrong. I try not to assume my mistake is going too fast. Instead I figure out what weakness is causing me to fail while going this fast and work on fixing that weakness.



Agree again. I've manged, due to Maskow's advice, to increase my acc to around 60%. I can do sometimes make around 80% but only if I slow down. If there's below 50% means I need to work with my comms because I'm too tired and they stopped being automatic. If I push memo my acc goes down to 30%. I think there must be a balance between pushing and accuracy.


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## Mike Hughey (Mar 29, 2018)

One of my heroes in BLD; one of the first groundbreakers in multiBLD:

3x3x3 Blindfolded longest success streak
*Person* *Length* *Best* *Avg* *Worst* *When?*
Tim Habermaas 71 1:15.00 1:56.31 3:50.28 Nov 2009 - Apr 2013

Yes, that's 71 official solves in a row!


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## mitja (Mar 29, 2018)

h2f said:


> Agree, however I think sometimes that top blinders see something that I'm not aware. Ishaan, Daniel and others have switched to UF and say it's bette buffer. And only one Polish top blinder uses DF.


I don't use optimized comms yet, my level is not there yet. Still learning them. What I've noticed is, that comms for edges/wings are quite fingertrick difficult, I much prefer Mark's advanced M2 approach as the solution is nicer, but few more moves sometimes. I say advanced M2 (or r2 for Bigcube) is 3-cycle with long conjugates.
Never tried how it would be with UF buffer, maybe it is more fingertrick frendly.


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## h2f (Mar 29, 2018)

mitja said:


> Never tried how it would be with UF buffer, maybe it is more fingertrick frendly



Yes, that's the main argument. 



mitja said:


> Still learning them. What I've noticed is, that comms for edges/wings are quite fingertrick difficult,



Mhm. I think it's up of the algs you use. At the first glance E or S moves seemed to me very hard but they make things much easier.


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## JanW (Mar 29, 2018)

I envy the bld success ratios you guys achieve! Still not looking too great here. I'm not sure exactly why that is. Almost always my errors are in edges. Corners are mostly fine, as long as I don't have a totally mixed up cube. In the last few days I've been doing lots of edge cycles in my bldtrainer and found that when doing individual cycles, I make a mistake maybe once in 20 cycles. Yet when I do full solves I make a lot more mistakes..


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## muchacho (Mar 29, 2018)

Logiqx said:


> The unofficial spreadsheet has gone a little quiet recently. No PBs guys?
> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1XEEV3LObw7cHNW6S_AZdHJWqKLQFoXRW0wwnDneags4/edit?usp=sharing



Your wish is my command 



Spoiler: Ao12 3x3 PB



65116 29-mar-2018 16:58:28 00:15.512 D R2 F2 R2 F2 U' F2 U' L2 U2 F' U' L F R B D U F' L B2 U'
65115 29-mar-2018 16:57:13 00:17.688 L2 D L2 U L2 U B2 L2 D' L2 D2 F D' U' F' L F U' L' U' B'
65114 29-mar-2018 16:56:38 00:16.487 D2 U' F2 D2 B2 R2 B2 U2 R2 F2 U' L U' B' F R' L2 D F' U' R F'
65113 29-mar-2018 16:56:07 00:14.528 F2 L2 B2 F2 U' B2 L2 D' R2 D U L' B R2 U R' F2 D B' L F U2
65112 29-mar-2018 16:55:31 00:16.551 B2 D2 B2 U' L2 B2 L2 D2 R2 D' B2 R' B' R U' B2 U' F' R' U2 F U'
65111 29-mar-2018 16:54:59 00:13.511 B2 L2 U' B2 R2 L2 U' L2 U' B2 R' B' U2 B2 L2 D B D2 B2 R
65110 29-mar-2018 16:54:26 00:16.191 B2 L2 U B2 D' U' F2 D' B2 F2 L2 F' U2 L' D L D' B L2 D'
65109 29-mar-2018 16:53:38 00:16.884 B2 D' R2 L2 B2 D L2 U' L2 F2 L2 B D L U' B' D L' F2 R' B' L
65108 29-mar-2018 16:52:56 00:18.439 U L2 U' R2 B2 D2 L2 D F2 D' R2 F D F' L2 U R L F L2
65107 29-mar-2018 16:52:22 00:14.457 D' U' B2 L2 B2 U2 F2 U' F2 D' L2 B' R L' U R B' L2 F L' D2 L2
65106 29-mar-2018 16:51:46 00:13.671 D2 U' L2 D U2 B2 R2 U' R2 L2 U' F' D B2 L' U2 B U B' D2
65105 29-mar-2018 16:51:13 00:13.599 D' B2 F2 U B2 D L2 U R2 F2 U2 R U L U' F D2 L' F2 R D


new: 15.556
old: 15.877 from 1 month ago


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## pglewis (Mar 29, 2018)

CLL Smooth said:


> You’re obviously capable of these times more regularly. I know it might sound redundant but this advice is sound: work on that slow turning. Even if you keep effing stuff up, your lookahead is the most important thing to get faster. Also, the more mistakes you make, the more you will learn. My advice is don’t turn off the timer just try not to care about it.



That's my usual mode. I time a lot of solves but rarely bother logging and I try not to let the timer drive my behavior, like punting an OLL I'm slow to recall and 2-looking or experimenting with new ways to handle a pair. The timer is mostly running just to verify my instincts and make sure I catch any lucky bolts out of the blue.

Sometimes the obvious advice is what I need though. The thing that has probably done the most for my lookahead in the past several months: consciously thinking to myself "don't look at the pair I'm solving". Seems ridiculous to even say it, it's the very definition of lookahead, but when my times start slipping and I pay close attention... sure enough, I'm watching 'em practically all the way into the slot. 

Another obvious one is I really need to be drilling blind pairs but it's like pulling teeth to get me to do it (ditto cross drills). 



muchacho said:


> Your wish is my command
> 
> new: 15.556
> old: 15.877 from 1 month ago



Dang, someone needs to get to another comp pronto! Well done, enough 13s in there to declare "that's no accident".


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## SpartanSailor (Mar 30, 2018)

Logiqx said:


> FYI. I've updated the oldies rankings:
> https://github.com/Logiqx/wca-ipy/blob/master/README.md
> 
> The unofficial spreadsheet has gone a little quiet recently. No PBs guys?
> ...



I actually have set a few PBs recently... 333, 444 and 555. I cant update the spreadsheet from my phone, but I will this weekend. In fact, I don’t think I even have 555 listed at all.


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## muchacho (Mar 30, 2018)

Also at 3x3 I've managed a Mo100 PB.

new: 17.539 (Ao100 is 17.472)
old: 17.630 from a month ago

I think it's time to learn the last CMLL cases I don't know yet (Sune), not that it will make much faster (if any) but I should do it anyway.

Edit: 17.279 Mo100 (17.179 Ao100)


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## h2f (Mar 30, 2018)

Logiqx said:


> The unofficial spreadsheet has gone a little quiet recently. No PBs guys?
> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1XEEV3LObw7cHNW6S_AZdHJWqKLQFoXRW0wwnDneags4/edit?usp=sharing



Thanks for a link. I've started to add my PBs.


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## Logiqx (Mar 30, 2018)

It's great to see some more oldies on the PB spreadsheet.

The more the merrier!


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## mark49152 (Mar 30, 2018)

Been busy so it took me a while to get round to editing this.


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## Logiqx (Mar 30, 2018)

mark49152 said:


> Been busy so it took me a while to get round to editing this.



Better luck next time!


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## JanW (Mar 30, 2018)

I figured I need to slow down and take a bit more time on my bld solves to increase accuracy (and through that hopefully confidence). It worked! First Ao5 of the year:

Generated By csTimer on 2018-3-30
avg of 5: 3:14.87

Time List:
1. 2:50.48+ U2 L D2 R' B' R F R U R' L U2 L' D2 L F2 D2 B2 D2 L2 Fw'
2. 3:42.38 R2 U2 R2 D' B2 F2 D' L2 U' R2 D' B' D F2 R U2 F L2 B2 D2 F' Uw'
3. 3:11.74 B2 D' F2 U R2 B2 F2 U L2 D' U2 F' U' L' U2 L' D2 L F D2 R2 Fw'
4. (DNF(2:26.09)) F' B2 L' D2 R2 B2 L D2 F2 R' U2 L D' B' F' L' F' R' F2 L2 Fw Uw'
5. (2:30.50) L2 F2 U2 B2 D2 F2 L R2 F2 U2 R F' U B2 D' L U2 R2 U2 R' F' Rw2 Uw'

The DNF was off by two twisted corners. It was a very stupid mistake, I did twist them at the end, but in the wrong direction.

Memo varied between 1:18-1:48, execution 1:08-1:53.


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## pglewis (Apr 1, 2018)

pglewis said:


> I'm now in a "no new learning" moratorium with comps coming up in April and May



I'm not doing very well with my moratorium...

I've added a second angle for Big Lightning Bolts (I use mirrors, so just one alg) and a replacement for one of the "Awkward" OLLs (old one ended with F2). Plus a couple F2L case refinements:

Mis-connected pair, same top color, EO safe (I already have a sledge based one): R' D' (R U' R') D R (U R U' R') 

R U R' case, flip all 4 LL edges: R' D' Rw U' Rw' D R2 U R' (U' between the wide turns can alternately be U if preferred)


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## SpartanSailor (Apr 1, 2018)

Met Jae today and his son in Charleston, SC. That was pretty cool—Oldies unite!

First things first. This was my official debut at a comp for 3BLD. The cutoff was 10:00 and my first attempt was 9:34... failed. Pretty big time. Second attempt came with a 7:08 success! I was still reeling in the feeling of success when they called me for my final attempt—which was 7:05 failure leaving one edge flipped and my buffer flipped in position. But the big goal, 3BLD success, was met. 

I did more events today than ever too, so I was pretty busy, it felt like it anyway. 

I got official PBs in every event:
333–single and Ao5
444–Ao5
555–single (but this was my first 555 in comp and I didn’t get to do an Ao5)
3BLD—7:08 success with OP/OP
Pyramid—Another first time comp so, single and Ao5
skewb—Ao5. This was the shocker of the day. I put near ZERO practice into this since November. But somehow pulled together a slight improvement of my Ao5. Decided to check cubcomps as I was walking out and realised I actually made the finals as top 12 (in 11th)! What?!? Turned around and went back into the building for Skewb finals. Hahahaha. That seriously was a shocker. I went on to do terribly in the finals, but had a good time today. 

My goals, if I had any were all met except a PB 444 single. But I have to say overall, today was a success that will be hard to replicate or exceed. Very pleased. My son was less thrilled, he didn’t do as well as he’d like to have done, but still enjoyed himself.


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## pglewis (Apr 1, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> Met Jae today and his son in Charleston, SC. That was pretty cool—Oldies unite!
> 
> First things first. This was my official debut at a comp for 3BLD. The cutoff was 10:00 and my first attempt was 9:34... failed. Pretty big time. Second attempt came with a 7:08 success! I was still reeling in the feeling of success when they called me for my final attempt—which was 7:05 failure leaving one edge flipped and my buffer flipped in position. But the big goal, 3BLD success, was met.
> 
> ...



Congrats on an excellent day! Way to hang with it and not get discouraged over the first 3bld attempt and you're now officially sub me .


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## openseas (Apr 1, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> Met Jae today and his son in Charleston, SC. That was pretty cool—Oldies unite!
> 
> First things first. This was my official debut at a comp for 3BLD. The cutoff was 10:00 and my first attempt was 9:34... failed. Pretty big time. Second attempt came with a 7:08 success! I was still reeling in the feeling of success when they called me for my final attempt—which was 7:05 failure leaving one edge flipped and my buffer flipped in position. But the big goal, 3BLD success, was met.
> 
> ...



It was great to see you and your son, too!

- 3BLD, Didn't expect much but another triple DNF was a bummer. Need more practice on Orozco - looks like execution error, there.
- 3x3, another meh, but slight improvement in terms of single PB + first ever 2nd round due to the generous cut (75%) policy

Jeff got another 19s today - now he has 3 official sub 20. Kaijun has 5, Max and Jeff has 3, Jake and Gianfranco has 2.


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## SpartanSailor (Apr 1, 2018)

pglewis said:


> Congrats on an excellent day! Way to hang with it and not get discouraged over the first 3bld attempt and you're now officially sub me .


The part I didn’t expect was how quickly I had my second (and again third) attempt following the end of the previous. After 7-9 mins focused on a memo, it wasn’t as easy to just forget it to begin the next attempt. Hahahaha. Things you learn by experience... I guess it’s time to learn some M2 stuff now.


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## mark49152 (Apr 1, 2018)

@SpartanSailor : Nice results and congrats on the first official 3BLD!

@openseas : Commiserations on the 3BLD. If Orozco is giving you trouble, maybe it's time to think about going for 3style corners? Setting up two pieces to a comm that interchanges with URF or URB (assuming UBL buffer) is really not that hard, and a lot of fun. Orozco seems popular these days but personally I think it's not really worthwhile as an intermediate method since with similar learning effort you could be solving two pieces per comm instead. Just my 2 pence sterling.


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## JanW (Apr 1, 2018)

Congrats @SpartanSailor! Official 3BLD is a big achievement!

I agree with Mark on corner comms. Definitely worth learning, and not too complicated. Some kind of limited set, with certain kinds of insertions/interchanges is good to start with. I can't provide any more advise than that for UBL buffer.

The last few days I've been working on 3BLD and some 5x5. Last 20 3BLD attempts had a success rate of 50%. Nice improvement, considering that 2 weeks ago I had a streak of 20 consecutive DNFs... On 5x5 my fastest two solves were 3.00.xx and 3.01.xx. No sub 3 yet, but it's coming!


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## pglewis (Apr 1, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> After 7-9 mins focused on a memo, it wasn’t as easy to just forget it to begin the next attempt.



I've started using rooms in prep for taking up mbld and find they also help a lot for multiple 3bld attempts. I'm still simplistic, each room has two locations: one for corner memo and one for edges. In my living room, my corners are on the couch and I visualize my first corner image as being on my couch. Edges are on the coffee table. Also helps a lot with the dreaded "memo was all there but I couldn't remember the very first image" issue.


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## JanW (Apr 1, 2018)

At some point I need to upgrade my corner comms. Right now I'm very comfortable with the ones I use, they are fairly fast and I hardly ever make any mistakes in corner cycle execution. But my comms are limited to inserting from UFR and using D, L or B face as interchange. The next step would be to at least include U layer interchanges. They speed up a lot of cases, but they also require that I rewire my brain to think about the comms in a different way.

I had a look at Daniel Lin's UFR list. He seems to be very much into RUD algs. There are several cases that to me seem unnecessarily complicated. Must be some gripping thing. For example, in setup moves he tends to use wide l moves instead of L. Can't be any reason for that other than him holding the cube so that L moves are impractical. Probably for the same reason some cases that could be done easily with L interchanges he did with longer and more complicated RUD algs.


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## mark49152 (Apr 1, 2018)

JanW said:


> I had a look at Daniel Lin's UFR list. He seems to be very much into RUD algs. There are several cases that to me seem unnecessarily complicated. Must be some gripping thing. For example, in setup moves he tends to use wide l moves instead of L. Can't be any reason for that other than him holding the cube so that L moves are impractical. Probably for the same reason some cases that could be done easily with L interchanges he did with longer and more complicated RUD algs.


RUD makes for much faster execution if you can use lefty flicks on both U and D and keep it regripless as far as possible. Most of the speed optimal comms in lists like Daniel's, Graham's and Ishaan's are RUD. If you're going to rework your comms it would make sense to explore those comms and get familiar with the patterns and the way they are intended to be finger tricked and see how much of it you can make work for you. At the end of last year I spent several weeks upgrading my corner comms to speed optimal RUD and they are much more comfortable to execute now.

When I need to set up the left layer I also use Lw. It's just because it's the counterpart to R and it feels more comfortable to do e.g. Lw R than to do L R and keep the M slice independent. For example, A perm.


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## openseas (Apr 1, 2018)

mark49152 said:


> @openseas : Commiserations on the 3BLD. If Orozco is giving you trouble, maybe it's time to think about going for 3style corners? Setting up two pieces to a comm that interchanges with URF or URB (assuming UBL buffer) is really not that hard, and a lot of fun. Orozco seems popular these days but personally I think it's not really worthwhile as an intermediate method since with similar learning effort you could be solving two pieces per comm instead. Just my 2 pence sterling.



@mark49152 / Thanks. My plan was, adding helper positions (started from URB) until I finish about half of all corner comms - then, switch to full 3 style. (like, mastering URB helper followed by URF helper, then, ULF helper, so on.) Need to review my strategy.


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## h2f (Apr 1, 2018)

JanW said:


> For example, in setup moves he tends to use wide l moves instead of L.



Lw' setup is often equal to x rotation eg. Aperm. And as @mark49152 said: RUD algs are very fast and often regripless.


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## mark49152 (Apr 1, 2018)

openseas said:


> @mark49152 / Thanks. My plan was, adding helper positions (started from URB) until I finish about half of all corner comms - then, switch to full 3 style. (like, mastering URB helper followed by URF helper, then, ULF helper, so on.) Need to review my strategy.


What's your buffer? ULB? 

My approach, which I kind of refined second time around when I updated my comms, was to focus on both comm patterns and setup patterns that are easily combined together to cover multiple pairs of targets. With just a few patterns, you can cover the majority of cases. I might write it up into a guide when I get time, but I'll try to illustrate with just a handful of examples.

Take CG (Speffz) which is [U2, R' D R]. It doesn't take much to figure out variations for cycling any U face sticker with any side sticker on the D layer, e.g. #BH = [U, R D' R'] or #CP = [U2, R' D' R].

With simple R setups and cancellations you can also figure out exchanges of side stickers on the D layer like #KG = [R U2 R', D].

Many 2-sticker cases can be easily set up to one of these two patterns. Examples:-

#QG = [R': #CG]
#WG = [R: #KG]
#NW = [R: #OK] where #OK = [D', R U2 R']
#KW = [R D': #CG]
#JH = [R: #BH]
#IH = [F R: #BH]
#JV = [F: #KG]
#ML = [R' D: #TP] where #TP = [R' U R, D]
#PG = [R' D': #KS]
#BV = [R' D R: #BH]
#IK = [F R: #BL]
#IN = [F R: #BO]

Etc. It's a lot of fun figuring them out and you'll almost halve your move count from Orozco .


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## JanW (Apr 2, 2018)

mark49152 said:


> My approach, which I kind of refined second time around when I updated my comms, was to focus on both comm patterns and setup patterns that are easily combined together to cover multiple pairs of targets.


This is pretty much what I had in mind as well. Right now my toolbox is limited to a small set of possible insertions and interchanges, and setups to those. It's quite easy to work with, since they are all intuitive and I don't need to remember any algs. I want to expand on this by adding more possible insertions, but at the same time I want to keep it intuitive, so that I can understand and work out every single case, without remembering an alg. [U2, R' D R] in it's different variations was the first one I planned to add. Then I want to look at lists, like Daniel Lin's, for other easy insertions I could include.


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## JanW (Apr 2, 2018)

PB Single by .5 seconds!

11.43 F R' D2 L' B2 R2 B2 L2 U2 F2 L B2 D B' U R' F2 R2 D L2

I'm pretty sure I opened with:

x2 // inspection
F' R' U D F2 R // XCross

Then I don't know what I did. Somehow I got a PLL skip without AUF at the end, but can't reconstruct.

F R' U D F U' F R would also have been a pretty nice 8 move XXCross.


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## pglewis (Apr 2, 2018)

mark49152 said:


> My approach, which I kind of refined second time around when I updated my comms, was to focus on both comm patterns and setup patterns that are easily combined together to cover multiple pairs of targets. With just a few patterns, you can cover the majority of cases. I might write it up into a guide when I get time, but I'll try to illustrate with just a handful of examples.



Do you use ULB buffer? How do you cope with an odd number of targets? Seems almost stupid not to pick up a few of the easy ones here and feels like I could mix it with OP.


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## mark49152 (Apr 3, 2018)

pglewis said:


> Do you use ULB buffer? How do you cope with an odd number of targets? Seems almost stupid not to pick up a few of the easy ones here and feels like I could mix it with OP.


Yes, ULB. If parity, I do an OP Y perm for the last target. 

I did start out trying to mix a few comms in with OP. It's a good approach in theory, but it didn't work too well for me because comms require different thinking. If timed, I would find myself just solving everything OP at full pelt so that I didn't have to pause or think. If untimed, there's no point using OP at all.


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## mitja (Apr 3, 2018)

mark49152 said:


> What's your buffer? ULB?
> 
> My approach, which I kind of refined second time around when I updated my comms, was to focus on both comm patterns and setup patterns that are easily combined together to cover multiple pairs of targets. With just a few patterns, you can cover the majority of cases. I might write it up into a guide when I get time, but I'll try to illustrate with just a handful of examples.
> 
> ...


This is very helpfull Mark. It is perfect for someone like me, who just started corner comms. Now I just need to translate those speffz letters into mine.


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## h2f (Apr 3, 2018)

Package with 10 Yuxin Little Magics arrived today. They look set well so I'll do 9 cubes mbld tonight because I'm gonna try 9 cubes on the comp this week. At this moment I could try maybe 13 cubes but competition is too close and 9 seems comfortable for me.


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## pglewis (Apr 3, 2018)

mark49152 said:


> I did start out trying to mix a few comms in with OP. It's a good approach in theory, but it didn't work too well for me because comms require different thinking. If timed, I would find myself just solving everything OP at full pelt so that I didn't have to pause or think. If untimed, there's no point using OP at all.



I can see that. My thought was at least the pure comms without any setups seem dead simple but not sure how well it would work in practice. You can bet it'll be on the agenda with sighted practice however, moratorium be damned.


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## JanW (Apr 3, 2018)

Got a ridiculous scramble for 3bld:

1:35.28 R' B L2 D2 B' D2 L2 F' D2 R2 B' L2 D B' U B2 L2 D' R D' Fw' Uw'

PB by a lot. 47.48 memo, 47.80 execution. Could have been sub 1:30 if I hadn't spent so much time not being able to believe the scramble was that ridiculous.

Yesterday I had a pretty good scramble, 3 corner cycles + 5 edge cycles, but got a 2:10 DNF as I had a wrong letter in my memo. Immediately afterwards I did the same scramble again, did the tracing as I would when I memo, then solved it. Second attempt was a 1:12 success. I cut 30 seconds of both memo and execution time. Shows what is possible if I could do tracing fluently without unnecessary reviews and pauses to come up with words, and if I could get rid of pauses in execution.


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## openseas (Apr 3, 2018)

mark49152 said:


> What's your buffer? ULB?
> 
> My approach, which I kind of refined second time around when I updated my comms, was to focus on both comm patterns and setup patterns that are easily combined together to cover multiple pairs of targets. With just a few patterns, you can cover the majority of cases. I might write it up into a guide when I get time, but I'll try to illustrate with just a handful of examples.
> 
> ...



Thanks, @mark49152 That sounds quite interesting. As you wrote, I also had trouble mixing OP with comms - that was the reason to switch to Orozco + I had almost weekly competition which made it difficult to have a long term strategy / plans.
But your suggestion looks doable. Thanks!


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## One Wheel (Apr 5, 2018)

Silly little accomplishment, but I'm excited: 3BLD pb of 10:32 for the WC. I believe it's my first full success since switching to M2 edges. Of solves I have recorded in CStimer, this is success 2 out of 57 attempts. Corners were 6 targets with no cycle breaks, but I was surprised I got the edges. 16 edge targets, UF and BD targets were both second in the pair, and a flipped buffer. Almost time to move on to 4BLD! I've got a comp coming up at the end of May that I'm going to try to get to; hopefully get a 3BLD success there, and barring a compete meltdown I should be able to get 3x3 and Feet PBs as well. I'm considering picking up a cheap pyraminx and learning it just well enough to make the 45s cutoff, then promptly forgetting how to solve it again.


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## pglewis (Apr 5, 2018)

3bld: mostly just been drilling sighted execution and fiddling with comms for a few days but did a timed solve when I should have been in bed last night. Pushed memo and took off rather haphazardly for a 3:45 DNF, two edges flipped (one forgotten image, one flipped in memo) and a twisted corner (forgot the very last image). Drills have improved my tracing and speffz assignment a lot while less full memo practice showed.


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## JohnnyReggae (Apr 6, 2018)

Had a pretty good streak with 3x3 today and managed to break my mo3, ao5, and ao12 PB's  It's been a while since I last broke any 3x3 PB's. Still waiting for that single though ...

mo3: 12.22 (14.82, 11.58, 10.26)

ao5: 13.04 ((14.95), 12.72, 14.82, 11.58, (10.26))

ao12: 14.14

Generated By csTimer on 2018-4-6
avg of 12: 14.14

Time List:
1. 13.88 D L D2 B' U L' D L2 F U2 B2 L2 D2 F2 U B2 U R2 U2 B 
2. 14.95 U2 F U2 F' R2 F U2 F D2 R2 L' U' L D B' L R U B L 
3. 12.72 R' U2 F' U2 F R2 B' F2 L2 F D2 F2 U' R' U2 B L' U2 L U F2 
4. 14.82 D2 B' L2 B' D2 F U2 R2 F2 L2 R B L B2 L2 U L B' D F' 
5. 11.58 F2 R2 U2 L2 F R2 B' D2 F U L' F2 L' D' B F L F' R 
6. (10.26) D' L' U2 B2 U2 F2 L' D2 R2 B2 D2 R F' U L2 B D U2 L' B' 
7. 15.52 L' B' R2 D2 B' F2 D2 B' L2 D2 L2 D B2 D2 L2 R B' L' F' U' 
8. (17.09) L F' U' R' L' D B2 R L2 D L2 D' R2 U' F2 L2 D2 L2 D R 
9. 15.09 D R2 U2 L2 D B2 R2 U' F2 U' B2 L' B D F' U R' U2 B' R2 U 
10. 15.68 B D' L2 D2 L2 R2 D' U' R2 U2 L' F' U2 R' B R B D 
11. 14.05 U2 F R' U2 F' R U D F D' R2 U R2 U2 L2 F2 U R2 L2 B2 
12. 13.09 B2 R' L2 F' L U2 R F U R2 F2 D2 R' B2 L' D2 R F2 L' U2


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## muchacho (Apr 6, 2018)

Improved 3x3 Ao5 PB a bit, from 14.683 (from 1.5 months ago) to 14.648 and two solves later to 14.642.



Spoiler



65796 06-abr-2018 16:13:01 00:14.719 R2 B2 R2 D2 L2 D' F2 U R2 L2 D2 L' F' U R D F' D' L' B F2 D'
65795 06-abr-2018 16:12:21 00:17.591 F2 U' L2 D2 B2 U L2 U F2 L2 D' R' U' F R' D' R2 U' B' D B2
65794 06-abr-2018 16:11:40 00:14.840 B2 D' B2 L2 U R2 D F2 D L2 U' L F L2 F2 D' B2 D2 B D' R2
65793 06-abr-2018 16:11:02 00:14.368 L2 D R2 F2 L2 U B2 U L2 D' U L' U2 R' D B L2 D F' D F' U2
65792 06-abr-2018 16:10:27 00:12.791 R2 B2 F2 U B2 F2 U2 R2 L2 B2 D2 R' F' R2 F' L B2 D2 R' D2 U'
65791 06-abr-2018 16:09:49 00:19.695 D F2 R2 F2 U' F2 R2 F2 R2 U' R2 B D B U L2 D R' B U2 R2 U'
65790 06-abr-2018 16:09:13 00:14.736 U' B2 D R2 F2 D R2 L2 B2 U2 F2 R' F D L B' R2 D F2 U2 R' L


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## JanW (Apr 6, 2018)

Got an assortment of budget cubes today. 10 days for a shipment to arrive from cubezz.com is a new record! 

Now I can totally understand why people are saying the Little Magic needs magnets. Wow, it's fast! I can imagine with magnets it is great. Not a big fan of it as it is though. I do find that M slice moves are a lot easier on it than on other cubes, so if I ever want to dabble with Roux, this will be my cube of choice.

I believe the stickerless MF3RS2 I got is a dud. Out of the box it was the worst 3x3 I've ever unboxed. Super tight and sounded weird. I loosened all screws about 3-4 full revs, which helped a bit, but one side was still really tight. I noticed it didn't get any loser no matter how much I loosened the screw. And it still sounded weird. Took the cube apart, lubed the core and adjusted tensions, now it's manageable, but still feels like something is wrong with it. I've had a couple of Cyclone Boys cubes previously with this same feeling of "this is not how it's supposed to be". 

I also got a stickered MF3RS2, that one is really nice! But my favorite so far in this shipment is the Qiyi Warrior W. Also the cheapest, at $2.85. The shades are a bit weird, can't tell yet if that is a problem.

However, after playing with and adjusting those budget cubes for an hour or so, I picked up my GTS2M and that's still in a league of it's own. The magnets make all the difference in the world. The way they have been rushing onto the market the past year, I'm confident that before too long there will be magnetized budget cubes available. Already is a magnetized $6 ShengShou on cubezz (have one ordered, though not expecting too much of it). Since I don't really have to have a set of Mbld cubes right now, and I expect there to be much better magnetized options soon, I've decided that this is not the right time to buy a batch of budget cubes. I'll wait and see. For now I can practice mbld with what I have.


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## newtonbase (Apr 6, 2018)

JanW said:


> Got an assortment of budget cubes today. 10 days for a shipment to arrive from cubezz.com is a new record!
> 
> Now I can totally understand why people are saying the Little Magic needs magnets. Wow, it's fast! I can imagine with magnets it is great. Not a big fan of it as it is though. I do find that M slice moves are a lot easier on it than on other cubes, so if I ever want to dabble with Roux, this will be my cube of choice.
> 
> ...


Definitely worth popping some magnets in the Little Magic. You'll like it.


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## pglewis (Apr 6, 2018)

JanW said:


> Now I can totally understand why people are saying the Little Magic needs magnets. Wow, it's fast! I can imagine with magnets it is great. Not a big fan of it as it is though. I do find that M slice moves are a lot easier on it than on other cubes, so if I ever want to dabble with Roux, this will be my cube of choice.



Yeah, raw speed and good slice moves are its strengths to me; blocky feel would be the downside. Magnets help the stability considerably (mine is the Cubers Home version). I'm still on the fence about using it for mbld since I currently prefer a slower puzzle for confidence there. I should experiment with tensions some. 



JanW said:


> I believe the stickerless MF3RS2 I got is a dud. Out of the box it was the worst 3x3 I've ever unboxed. Super tight and sounded weird.



Maybe, it might also just need to break in some. Mine was a little sandy feeling and slow out of the box but a couple hours of solves made a big difference. I kicked the spring noise with a little light silicone lube over the washers and set the tensions fairly tight on my magnetic (SCS Supernova) and it's very serviceable puzzle. Magnets feel rather light (which I like) and it does slices pretty well. 



JanW said:


> However, after playing with and adjusting those budget cubes for an hour or so, I picked up my GTS2M and that's still in a league of it's own.



At the end of the day I've found it hard to beat a GTS2M or magnetic Valk if money is no object. Valk 3M is probably my top choice for blind right now. The fact that it tends to slow up compared to my GTS's works in its favor for me there.


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## JanW (Apr 6, 2018)

pglewis said:


> At the end of the day I've found it hard to beat a GTS2M or magnetic Valk if money is no object.


I did consider this option as well. In my last comp I failed 3 cube mbld, so it's not like I need 10 cubes right now. Also doubt I'll get to another comp until next fall. I could buy a GTS2M/month and most likely keep up with my mbld needs. And spending $19/month on a hobby is nothing really...

Only problem with that plan is that eventually I would have a very expensive collection of mbld cubes, which inevitably will be outdated before too long. Had I went an idea like this a couple of years ago, I probably would have went with Tanglongs, which back then I thought was in a league of it's own. Today my Tanglongs just feel so old and slow, even compared to the budget cubes I just received.


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## mitja (Apr 7, 2018)

After long time I had an hour without somebody bothering me. My first 4BLD success ( second timed try) 24.44,22. I made a very long memo, don't know how long, (more then 16 minutes), just wanted to be sure. I can still remember it
Ok, I learned, I can do it. Now, I will go with faster memo and also try 3/3 MBLD. Want to get used for longer memos and get ready for 5BLD. 
I was not careful with memo, it was not nicely in the rooms, just have to be more systematic.


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## openseas (Apr 7, 2018)

mitja said:


> After long time I had an hour without somebody bothering me. My first 4BLD success ( second timed try) 24.44,22. I made a very long memo, don't know how long, (more then 16 minutes), just wanted to be sure. I can still remember it
> Ok, I learned, I can do it. Now, I will go with faster memo and also try 3/3 MBLD. Want to get used for longer memos and get ready for 5BLD.
> I was not careful with memo, it was not nicely in the rooms, just have to be more systematic.
> View attachment 9008



@mitja / congrats!!!!


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## newtonbase (Apr 7, 2018)

mitja said:


> After long time I had an hour without somebody bothering me. My first 4BLD success ( second timed try) 24.44,22. I made a very long memo, don't know how long, (more then 16 minutes), just wanted to be sure. I can still remember it
> Ok, I learned, I can do it. Now, I will go with faster memo and also try 3/3 MBLD. Want to get used for longer memos and get ready for 5BLD.
> I was not careful with memo, it was not nicely in the rooms, just have to be more systematic.
> View attachment 9008


Well done. I found MBLD a great way of practicing for 4BLD and 5BLD. You get to build up your memo skills to the point where you don't have to worry about and you can focus on tracing and execution. 

Also, well done to @openseas on his first silver today (4BLD at Berkeley).


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## openseas (Apr 7, 2018)

newtonbase said:


> Also, well done to @openseas on his first silver today (4BLD at Berkeley)



Thanks! Largely due to dnfs from top 3 guys.
Could have been a complete disaster if I've got 6 DNFs today.


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## mark49152 (Apr 8, 2018)

Congrats @openseas. Also saw Grzegorz @h2f got 6/9 in multi and some nice PBs in FMC.


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## h2f (Apr 8, 2018)

Thanks Mark, @mark49152. First time, since back to mbld, I got result. 2DNFs were just flips and twists - I'm not sure if it was memo or execution.
2nd atttempt looked like this:







In FMC all scrambles were hard to me - I've found solutions in last 15minutes. Only 2nd was a little bit earlier. I'm happy I havent given up and finished 5th - lots of guys dnfed in last scramble which was nightmare.


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## mark49152 (Apr 8, 2018)

Some frustrating DNFs there, Grzegorz!


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## mitja (Apr 8, 2018)

Rehearsing BLD, I totaly neglected my 5x5 training. I timed myself for next weekend nationals. 
single
2:20.47
avg of 5
2:27.28
avg of 12
2:36.84
Still far away from 2:00 best of two limit, but much better then I expected.


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## pglewis (Apr 8, 2018)

openseas said:


> Thanks! Largely due to dnfs from top 3 guys.



A podium is a podium, good job! 

Looks like @h2f landed silver in 3bld as well.


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## mark49152 (Apr 8, 2018)

Congrats Grzegorz!


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## openseas (Apr 9, 2018)

Thaks! @mark49152 @pglewis 

Congrats Grzegorz!


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## h2f (Apr 9, 2018)

Congrats Jae, @openseas !

Silver medal is fine but the time is poor for me. Since I woke up I had a persistent thought it'll be 3 DNFs. I've slept only 5 hours and I got cold. In 1st round 1st solve was the safe solve. Next I got 59.xx and 1:19 with 3flips, 2 twists scramble. In a final after 2 DNFs I've made extra safe solve - it was just 10 algs - because I knew I can just be 2nd seeing other results. So I did it.  We had 5 parity solves in a row and 6 with twists and flips during 2 rounds.


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## SpartanSailor (Apr 9, 2018)

Been a little busy—new job—but wanted to say congrats to @openseas for his recent competition! Well done.

And congrats to @h2f as well!! Looks like the old guys are representing well!!


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## h2f (Apr 10, 2018)

I feel a little bit ashamed with this video because my global average now is sub 1:05. But it was a concious decision to make a very safe solve. So it is.


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## SpartanSailor (Apr 10, 2018)

h2f said:


> I feel a little bit ashamed with this video because my global average now is sub 1:05. But it was a concious decision to make a very safe solve. So it is.


Nothing to be ashamed of!!


I just did a little 3BLD practice. Got 3 success and a DNF:
5:11, 5:18(DNF), 5:05 and 5:25. 

My PB is 4:56, but four in a row in the low 5 min range was great for me today... even if one was a DNF. 

I feel like my execution is much more confident at this point. And I’m FINALLY getting better (at least today... probably just jinx’d Myself) at tracing to make sure I get all the pieces. Or... it was just easier today for whatever reason. Either way, fun practice and encouraging.


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## pglewis (Apr 11, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> Nothing to be ashamed of!!
> 
> I just did a little 3BLD practice. Got 3 success and a DNF:
> 5:11, 5:18(DNF), 5:05 and 5:25.
> ...



We're very close yet again. I haven't timed much but I'm getting a good success rate now at what feels like between 5-6 mins. I timed a pushed memo solve last week at 3:45, DNF but encouragingly close.


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## newtonbase (Apr 11, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> Nothing to be ashamed of!!
> 
> 
> I just did a little 3BLD practice. Got 3 success and a DNF:
> ...





pglewis said:


> We're very close yet again. I haven't timed much but I'm getting a good success rate now at what feels like between 5-6 mins. I timed a pushed memo solve last week at 3:45, DNF but encouragingly close.



it looks like you would both benefit from pushed memo at this stage. As you've seen @pglewis you can drop your times significantly. Your success rate will catch up soon. It did wonders for me.


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## SpartanSailor (Apr 11, 2018)

newtonbase said:


> it looks like you would both benefit from pushed memo at this stage. As you've seen @pglewis you can drop your times significantly. Your success rate will catch up soon. It did wonders for me.


Now that I KNOW I can do it, and had a competition success, I do hope to push my memo a little. 

Any recommendations? For instance, set a time for inspection and begin the solve no matter what after that time period? 

I know I take my time getting started to look generally for any ridge orncorner that is in the correct position. I note if it’s twisted and/or solved before I begin my memo. If it’s twisted, I just remember to add that “twist” to the end of my memo for edge or corner. 

I also do LOTS of review.


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## newtonbase (Apr 11, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> Now that I KNOW I can do it, and had a competition success, I do hope to push my memo a little.
> 
> Any recommendations? For instance, set a time for inspection and begin the solve no matter what after that time period?
> 
> ...


To start with I'd just review less and trust your recall. Setting a maximum time for memo works well but that might be the next step. Also, if you are too tired for memo you could just practice tracing. 

My 2nd to last 4BLD practice before comp went terribly. First solve had to be abandoned after screwing up the first letter in wings. Screwed up centre execution on 2nd but carried on ending up with a scrambled cube. Solve 3 was my 2nd slowest since I started recording and I still got 2 centres wrong. Confidence is low.


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## One Wheel (Apr 11, 2018)

newtonbase said:


> Also, if you are too tired for memo you could just practice tracing.



Am I The only person whose short-term memory seems to improve when I'm tired? I have a lot more trouble doing blind in the middle of the day than right before bed after a long day. I decided to push it last night and got 0/2 MBLD. Both cubes had all the corners solved, though. I haven't gone through to figure out what I did wrong exactly, but I think I forgot an early letter pair on one, and the last letter pair and a flip on the other.


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## newtonbase (Apr 11, 2018)

One Wheel said:


> Am I The only person whose short-term memory seems to improve when I'm tired?


I find it impossible to predict how well I'll do. I have good sessions and bad ones regardless of how I feel.


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## One Wheel (Apr 11, 2018)

newtonbase said:


> I find it impossible to predict how well I'll do. I have good sessions and bad ones regardless of how I feel.


I noticed in college I could about remember a 5-digit zip code immediately most of the time, but between about 11:00 PM and 1:30 AM I could recall a 10-digit phone number. The same seems roughly true for blindfolded solving.


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## pglewis (Apr 11, 2018)

newtonbase said:


> it looks like you would both benefit from pushed memo at this stage. As you've seen @pglewis you can drop your times significantly. Your success rate will catch up soon. It did wonders for me.



Yeah, I think I'm at that point. I've been doing a lot of sighted solves for tracing improvement-- I get more practice in with less fatigue than doing full memo-- but I've had chronic execution hiccups until the past week. Seems like the tide is turning again, I had 3/3 a few nights ago, 1/2 and 1/1 the past couple days at the coffee shop. Accuracy is back!


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## One Wheel (Apr 12, 2018)

I just got a particularly encouraging DNF: 4:11.xx, off by 1 pair of flipped edges. Also 4:30 and 7:02 DNFs to follow that up. At this rate I'll be sub-2 by the time I get another success!


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## SpartanSailor (Apr 12, 2018)

newtonbase said:


> I find it impossible to predict how well I'll do. I have good sessions and bad ones regardless of how I feel.


Same for me. Tired or otherwise... I find it’s hard to say if I’m going to have a good session or not. Just got to give it a shot and see how it goes. 

I could benefit from more tracing practice, for sure. Sometimes I run my memo several times only to see if I got each piece.


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## openseas (Apr 12, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> Any recommendations? For instance, set a time for inspection and begin the solve no matter what after that time period?
> 
> I also do LOTS of review.



You already know the answer. Don't review / don't be afraid. You'll fail a lot in the beginning but you'll make improvements. Just trust your memo.

Another tip, try to make strong images & distinct audio.


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## JohnnyReggae (Apr 12, 2018)

Had a competition on Monday, Speedcubes Cape Town 2018. My 3rd time delegating a comp and only 6th competing. I got a competition PB in every event. 4 in total, Pyraminx, 3x3 OH, 2x2, and 3x3.

Single and average PB's in 3x3, 3x3 OH, and Pyraminx, and a single PB in 2x2. This was also the 4th straight comp where I managed single and average PB's in 3x3 OH and Pyraminx despite me not practicing Pyraminx much at all.

We had Mats Valk attend the competition as well. What a nice guy. Very humble and polite and such a nice guy to talk to and interact with. The kids at the competition were very excited and he welcomed them all. He took 1st obviously, but he was relegated to 2nd in Pyraminx by a spirited effort by a local.

Next competition I'll be attending and assisting with delegating will be at the Arnold Classic Africa, http://www.arnoldclassicafrica.com/speed-cubes.html

3 days of competition will see all the events except for the large cube blind events. Looking forward to that although I suspect that it will be quite hectic with everything else happening around the Arnold Classic.


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## openseas (Apr 13, 2018)

1. 9:16.46[[5:03.42/4:13.03]] L F2 D' L2 F' U Rw2 L D F2 U Rw R F R F2 D L2 U2 Fw' Rw Fw D' B2 Fw Uw2 D2 Fw2 U' D' Rw L F' Fw L Uw' R Rw' D2 Uw'

PB in almost two months.
Centers are mostly comms (~90%) / wings are 30~40% comms / corners are orozoco.


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## h2f (Apr 13, 2018)

openseas said:


> 1. 9:16.46[[5:03.42/4:13.03]] L F2 D' L2 F' U Rw2 L D F2 U Rw R F R F2 D L2 U2 Fw' Rw Fw D' B2 Fw Uw2 D2 Fw2 U' D' Rw L F' Fw L Uw' R Rw' D2 Uw'
> 
> PB in almost two months.
> Centers are mostly comms (~90%) / wings are 30~40% comms / corners are orozoco.
> ...



Wow. Awsome!


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## muchacho (Apr 13, 2018)

In last 2 weeks I've apparently improved almost half a second. I said I was just going to learn the last CMLL algs, but it's hard for me to stop doing fast solves now, I want to see first if this improvement is only temporarily or not.

Ao5 PB: 14.593 (was 14.642 from last week)



Spoiler



66253 13-abr-2018 12:48:36 00:14.029 R2 L2 D' F2 D2 U F2 R2 U' R2 U2 B F2 R' B2 L B F' D2 L D'
66252 13-abr-2018 12:47:33 00:15.128 B2 U' R2 D' B2 U2 B2 U R2 L2 U' F' U2 F' R' B U2 F R2 L U'
66251 13-abr-2018 12:46:58 00:18.302 L2 B2 D' F2 L2 U' F2 D F2 L2 D' R' F L2 D' R' F2 L' B' D2 R2
66250 13-abr-2018 12:46:24 00:14.519 U B2 F2 L2 D R2 L2 U F2 D' U2 F' L2 D' B' R2 D2 R D' B2 U R2
66249 13-abr-2018 12:45:50 00:14.133 D' F2 D' B2 R2 D B2 U' L2 F2 L2 B' R2 L2 F' L U B' R D R F2


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## newtonbase (Apr 13, 2018)

Well done @openseas I'm a long way behind you now. 

One of my brand new Little Magics has come with the wrong colour scheme. I magnetised it without checking and thought I'd reassembled the corners wrongly at first but then realised that red and orange sides were switched. I'll check the other 9 when I get home later. Bizarre.


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## newtonbase (Apr 13, 2018)

Checked my other cubes and found 2 more stickered wrongly.


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## openseas (Apr 13, 2018)

newtonbase said:


> Well done @openseas I'm a long way behind you now.
> 
> One of my brand new Little Magics has come with the wrong colour scheme. I magnetised it without checking and thought I'd reassembled the corners wrongly at first but then realised that red and orange sides were switched. I'll check the other 9 when I get home later. Bizarre.



Just curious; when you magnetized it, you already disassembled it and polarity everything will be based on your own color scheme. Why does it matter how it came in in the beginning?


----------



## newtonbase (Apr 13, 2018)

It didn't really matter except that I was mighty confused and thought I'd made a complete hash of reassembling. All I actually had to do was switch a couple of centre caps.


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## Logiqx (Apr 14, 2018)

Good luck to all the UK folks (and any others on this thread) competing in High Wycombe this weekend.

I was planning to do this competition (first Since October) but I missed the registration expecting an automated e-mail reminder. I've added registration dates to my calendar so that doesn't happen again!

Hopefully I'll see some of you in June (Hastings) and October (Stevenage).


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## pglewis (Apr 14, 2018)

newtonbase said:


> it looks like you would both benefit from pushed memo at this stage. As you've seen @pglewis you can drop your times significantly. Your success rate will catch up soon. It did wonders for me.



Confirmed: it turns out I'm capable of DNFing significantly faster. 

(kidding aside they're very promising DNFs)


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## pglewis (Apr 14, 2018)

Day 2 of pushing 3bld memo after 0/8 last night and PB by nearly 30 seconds. It wasn't a complete anomaly either; only a little on the fast side of my pushed memo splits and nothing solved in the scramble.

4/5 on these today, 3:36 was a failure and the 5:16 I literally had to trace both edges and corners twice due to odd/even. That's somewhat chronic while pushing memo, something I need to watch... must have happened four or five times in the past two days. [Edit: keeping in mind my accuracy was more like 4/10 but multiple solves were deleted to avoid mucking up my legit splits. At least one I held the space bar too long and ended up with .5 second execution, a couple I bailed on after mucking up tracing and had no interest in another 5 min success, and a couple I bailed on with complete recall failure]

A side effect of pushing my memo is it slows the execution due to more recall pauses. Makes perfect sense, just something I hadn't anticipated.


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## Selkie (Apr 14, 2018)

Older cubers curry night with good company after first day off High Wycombe with, left to right @mark49152, @Shaky Hands and me, @Selkie


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## bubbagrub (Apr 14, 2018)

Selkie said:


> Older cubers curry night with good company after first day off High Wycombe with, left to right @mark49152, @Shaky Hands and me, @Selkie
> View attachment 9028


Nice t-shirt, as always, Shaky Hands...


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## Shaky Hands (Apr 14, 2018)

bubbagrub said:


> Nice t-shirt, as always, Shaky Hands...



My life story is one of T-shirts with meta-references.


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## mark49152 (Apr 14, 2018)

Shaky Hands said:


> My life story is one of T-shirts with meta-references.


You should get a t-shirt with that written on it


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## muchacho (Apr 15, 2018)

Ao12 PB: from 15.556 to 15.455 15.451



Spoiler



66450 15-abr-2018 11:20:28 00:15.632 D F2 D2 L2 B2 R2 U' B2 U L2 D2 R' L' B' R2 F' L D2 F' D' B2 U2
66449 15-abr-2018 11:19:52 00:14.295 R2 F2 D L2 U L2 F2 L2 U2 R2 D L' D U B U' R' U B2 D R'
66448 15-abr-2018 10:45:38 00:15.480 R2 U2 L2 U F2 R2 D B2 D' F2 U B D2 R F' L' D' B R2 L B2
66447 15-abr-2018 10:45:01 00:15.345 U2 B2 L2 F2 U B2 L2 U' R2 D R U' F D L B' D' R2 F D' U'
66446 15-abr-2018 10:44:21 00:17.015 R2 U F2 D2 U R2 L2 F2 L2 D R U2 F U R2 B' D U' R L'
66445 15-abr-2018 10:43:44 00:16.311 B2 D L2 U' L2 U' R2 U F2 R2 U' F' L2 U' L2 D' F2 R' F L D'
66444 15-abr-2018 10:43:10 00:14.280 U R2 U R2 D2 L2 F2 D' R2 F2 D' F U F' D2 F U R' L B U
66443 15-abr-2018 10:42:30 00:17.134 L2 D' F2 L2 D' R2 L2 B2 R2 L2 U' L' B2 U2 B2 U' B R' U F L
66442 15-abr-2018 10:41:52 00:15.134 R2 B2 L2 F2 U F2 D B2 F2 D' R' D' F R U2 F D' U2 R U'
66441 15-abr-2018 10:41:09 00:15.503 D' U' F2 L2 B2 R2 L2 D F2 L' F L' F2 R F2 R B' D2 U
66440 15-abr-2018 10:40:33 00:14.960 U B2 L2 D B2 D L2 U' L2 U' F2 R B' R2 B' R' U' R D2 L2 B D2
66439 15-abr-2018 10:39:54 00:14.839 L2 B2 U' R2 U2 L2 B2 D L2 F2 U L B2 D2 B U' B D F U' L2
66438 15-abr-2018 10:39:20 00:15.687 R2 D2 R2 F2 D' R2 B2 D R2 F2 R F2 D' F2 U' F U' R U
66437 15-abr-2018 10:38:51 00:13.760 D R2 B2 F2 D2 L2 U R2 F2 L2 F' R F L2 U' F R' D' L2 B2 U2



Congrats all for the PBs in comp and good luck in the remaining events.

edit: 15.451

edit2: Mo100 PB: 17.257 (16.919 Ao100), from 17.279.


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## Logiqx (Apr 15, 2018)

Selkie said:


> Older cubers curry night with good company after first day off High Wycombe with, left to right @mark49152, @Shaky Hands and me, @Selkie



Congrats guys. Some nice results all around.

Things that jump out at me are @mark49152 smashing the sub-1 barrier in 3BLD and @Selkie kicking ass in 6x6!

Meanwhile in UPB land, I did an OH session last night; first sub-24 Ao12 (23.82) and sub-25 Ao50 (24.95). The official sub-30 average will have to wait until later this year...

Re: 2x2 - @mark49152 and @Selkie. Nice singles... I need to pull my finger out next comp!


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## Logiqx (Apr 15, 2018)

muchacho said:


> Ao12 PB: from 15.556 to 15.455 15.451
> 
> edit: 15.451



Nice. Don't forget to change the date as well in the spreadsheet.

Time for some OH practice? 

Edit: You seriously need to attend another competition btw.


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## muchacho (Apr 15, 2018)

Thanks. No OH for now (and for some weeks already) but I'll be back at it maybe in a few more weeks.


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## newtonbase (Apr 15, 2018)

Just home from High Wycombe. Got PB 1 and 2 in OH and 4x4 single plus a 3x3 single. Didn't get my 4BLD success which was my main aim but had a good go at it. Made round 2 of 3BLD too.
Great to meet up with the guys again. Shame I couldn't stay for the Indian last night but we'll make up for it at the UKs later this year.


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## h2f (Apr 15, 2018)

@mark49152, awsome 3bld results!
Also, congrats Chris, @Selkie, Mark, @newtonbase!


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## Shaky Hands (Apr 15, 2018)

Logiqx said:


> Congrats guys. Some nice results all around.
> 
> Things that jump out at me are @mark49152 smashing the sub-1 barrier in 3BLD and @Selkie kicking ass in 6x6!



@Selkie’s biggest PB was his parking charge. 

I’m happy with my one and only PB from the comp, a 5 second improvement at 7x7 single in a solve that featured 3 pops.


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## h2f (Apr 15, 2018)

Sorry, I've forgotten about you, @Shaky Hands! Congrats, Andy!


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## Selkie (Apr 15, 2018)

Great comp with the right mix of solves, PBs, catching up with the older brethren ( @Shaky Hands (Andy), @mark49152 (Mark) and @newtonbase (Mark) ) and beer (plus Jagermeister!)

Really pleased with the 6x6 mean since both Ron and Mike DeCock had overtaken me for the mean in the last month so nice to reclaim it with some breathing space. Also managed to clinch the 7x7 single too. PBs also for 4x4 and 5x5 averages but still poor results compared to home.

Congratulations on all the great PBs gentlemen and just wow at the flurry of sub 1 3BLD results @mark49152 .

Just editing the 6x6 mean and will link when it is up.


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## Logiqx (Apr 15, 2018)

Shaky Hands said:


> I’m happy with my one and only PB from the comp, a 5 second improvement at 7x7 single in a solve that featured 3 pops.



Impressive. Times alone rarely seem to tell the full story!


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## Selkie (Apr 15, 2018)

My 6x6 mean...


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## pglewis (Apr 15, 2018)

Always great to see the the old folks representing! Congrats on the PBs and hat tip to Mark who was on a roll in 3bld.


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## openseas (Apr 16, 2018)

Congrats to all! Great to see you guys hanging out together!

@newtonbase / Sorry to hear your 4BLD miss. What was your time?


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## pglewis (Apr 16, 2018)

Finally, 3x3 single PB by over a second with a PLL skip. Now maybe I can forget about it and get back to working on my average


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## Logiqx (Apr 16, 2018)

I've updated the oldies rankings on GitHub:

https://github.com/Logiqx/wca-ipy

Congrats on the 6x6 results @Selkie


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## mark49152 (Apr 16, 2018)

Great to catch up with fellow oldies at High Wycombe! As someone once said, it was a "comp of two halves" (I suspect only the Brits will get that one )

Obviously my highlight was 3BLD. Sub-1 has been my realistic target for over a year. Like buses, you wait a year then three come at once. At Weston I felt my solves were spoiled by nervous hands, so this time I used a magnetic cube for better stability. I practised with it beforehand and still much prefer the feel of non-magnetic, but in comp the magnets did definitely help. My plan is to practise with non-magnetic and use magnetic just for comp, like racing shoes.

In the first round I was delighted to get two sub-1 PBs and played the third attempt safe for a mean. 55.70 single and 1:05.21 mean are improvements of 4.6 and ~28 seconds respectively so I'm happy with that jump. It was also nice to make finals and enjoy nine official attempts in one day.

4BLD was a bit of a mess. On the first attempt I realised I'd done the second centre wrong so I undid everything and started again. It was DNF anyway. On the second attempt I messed up when undoing the setup on the very last piece and was two moves away from solved, although it was so slow I didn't much care. My lack of practice really showed at this event.

Elsewhere: Forgot how to solve 2x2 and got an awful average, but a PBL skip gave me PB single on the last solve. 11.36 average with 4.02 single, lol. 

Forgot how to solve clock too - first solve DNF, then second solve safe. A bit too safe because I missed the cutoff by half a second.

3x3: three bad solves and two good ones gave me an OK average of 20.03. Can't complain at that. 5x5 and 6x6 were OK too, and 4x4 was awful. I think that covers everything.

It was nice to attend the whole comp for a change, and be there for the traditional curry. Looking forward to the next one already!


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## SpartanSailor (Apr 16, 2018)

Had a nice somewhat local comp here in Virginia yesterday. I competed in 222, 333, 444 and 555.

Got PBs in every event! Felt pretty good about that. 

222: I actually did “poorly” based upon even my practice/warmup solves. Nevertheless I managed to squeak out a slight official improvement. The organisers decided to take extra people to the second round and so I got lucky enuff to have a second shot at a decent set. Second round started with a sub-4 official. That was a PB single at 3.89 seconds that I don’t expect to beat anytime soon. Ended up with another slight improvement for a PB Ao5 in the second round too. 

333: nothing spectacular here at the comp. I think the best part of this was I made the second round. The first round was decent and although no PBs, I was happy to make the second round and avoid any desasters. The second round was nice and consistent. Again, just solid right at what I do most days on the coach and DID come away with a PB Ao5. 

444: good stuff. PB single and Ao5. 

555: only got two attempts, the soft cutoff was far too fast and it’ll be awhile before I can make sub-2:00. But I’ll take my 3:32 and PB single on the day. 

All in all, it was a good day.


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## newtonbase (Apr 16, 2018)

openseas said:


> @newtonbase / Sorry to hear your 4BLD miss. What was your time?


I had 30 mins which was enough for 2 safe solves. First was 13:33 I think. Really solid memo but 2 wings off as I lost track of what I'd done (it may have been correct but I "fixed" it) then I twisted a corner the wrong way. Second solve I went even slower. Memo very solid again but during centre execution I realised I'd got the same letter twice so had ended a cycle early. I tried to fix it and did get close but it took ages and I knew I had to rush to finish. During wings I did an R move wrong so half of them plus corners were wrong. I had 3 or 4 seconds to spare at the end.
MBLD practice starts today. I have 8 cubes already scrambled for an attempt during my lunch break. Bit of an experiment that may go badly wrong as previous biggest attempt was 6. First attempt since WSM in November.


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## newtonbase (Apr 16, 2018)

That went better than expected. 6/8 44:57 (32:26). Forgot to do parity alg on cube 1 and missed a word on cube 7 (missed it in review as well), plus twisted a corner the wrong way on same cube (execution error). Really happy with the strength of memo and pretty sure I could do 10 in an hour quite comfortably.

I was wrong about my last attempt as it was in January not last November. Poor memory .


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## mitja (Apr 16, 2018)

Congrats to all you guys for great results. Amazing BLD there
I went to our nationals, 4BLD was DNF by 2 wrong wings and the time limit of 45 minutes was only enough for 2 attempts. 5BLD was also too much for me. The schedule was at strange hours, I was just too tired. I did the memo but too slow, when i saw only 6 minutes to the end, i quitted. 
5x5 was PB 2:20 but not enough for 2:00 time limit, so no average for me( we have heavy cutoffs). 3BLD was 3 DNF, 8:30 in the morning is just too early for me.
3x3 was only one sub 20s, but still OK.
4x4 was 1:09 average 2s above PB
overall I am still satisfied


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## bubbagrub (Apr 16, 2018)

OK... I'm going to have another go at 4BLD, having tried once a long while ago and given up. I think I'm roughly ok with the idea of U2 / r2 / OP as my approach, and have had a first go at writing out a memo for a scramble. 

Here's the scramble I'm trying:

Rw' L Uw2 Fw B' F Rw Fw2 B F D' F Fw' R2 U' R F' Rw' B' Uw2 R' Rw2 F2 R2 Fw D Rw2 R' Uw' D F2 B U2 B2 R' Rw' B2 Fw' R2 U

To make things easier I'm using scrambling orientation -- no initial rotations. That gives me two good centres on L, two on U, and one on each of the other faces, which seems ok.

If someone who uses Speffz with U2, r2 and OP has the time and inclination, I wonder if they'd be willing to check I'm getting the memo right? Here's what I have:

Centres: ID QJ MV RW FX GN KP T
Corners: FK XO LB M
Wings: QJ TC VW XP GL JK NH KR OB DS IM R

Thanks!


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## h2f (Apr 16, 2018)

newtonbase said:


> That went better than expected. 6/8 44:57 (32:26).




Better than mine 6/9. Congrats!


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## newtonbase (Apr 16, 2018)

bubbagrub said:


> OK... I'm going to have another go at 4BLD, having tried once a long while ago and given up. I think I'm roughly ok with the idea of U2 / r2 / OP as my approach, and have had a first go at writing out a memo for a scramble.
> 
> Here's the scramble I'm trying:
> 
> ...


Looks correct to me. Personally I would not start a wings cycle with K as its not a nice target to do twice. Is this your normal memo order? What order do you execute


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## newtonbase (Apr 16, 2018)

h2f said:


> Better than mine 6/9. Congrats!


Thanks. What was your time?


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## h2f (Apr 16, 2018)

newtonbase said:


> Thanks. What was your time?


49:04 with 40 minutes memo.


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## bubbagrub (Apr 16, 2018)

newtonbase said:


> Looks correct to me. Personally I would not start a wings cycle with K as its not a nice target to do twice. Is this your normal memo order? What order do you execute


Thanks for checking! I actually don't know what my order should be yet... I gather it's sensible to execute centres first since some of the later stuff might not be centre-safe. So I'm thinking I'll do it as: wings, corners, centres, centres, corners, wings. Is that what you do? Or maybe I should execute corners first, like I do for 3BLD?

Ah... the reason I started that cycle with K was because I got confused -- it wasn't a conscious choice...  But good point -- I'll aim to avoid starting cycles with U / D layer wings.


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## mark49152 (Apr 16, 2018)

bubbagrub said:


> So I'm thinking I'll do it as: wings, corners, centres, centres, corners, wings.


Definitely centres first - you're correct, OP is not centre safe and nor are wing parity algs. Also, OP swaps two dedges when there's parity. The easiest exec order to get right is centres, wings, corners.


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## newtonbase (Apr 16, 2018)

h2f said:


> 49:04 with 40 minutes memo.


Much faster execution than me. I was slightly hindered as most of mine had never been solved and were far too loose but I can't see myself getting down to 1 min per cube like you. 

@bubbagrub I memo corners wings then centres and execute the opposite way. Where there is corner parity I switch UB and UL wings in memo to avoid a parity alg.


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## bubbagrub (Apr 16, 2018)

newtonbase said:


> @bubbagrub I memo corners wings then centres and execute the opposite way. Where there is corner parity I switch UB and UL wings in memo to avoid a parity alg.



Mind: blown! Does that work for all bld parities? If so, I can avoid learning the wing-parity alg...


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## chtiger (Apr 16, 2018)

Been awhile since I've posted anything. I still try to keep up with the thread though. I had a comp this weekend too, so I'll throw my results here with the rest. 
http://cubecomps.com/live.php?cid=2958&compid=19
Nothing great, only thing I was happy with was sub 2:00 BLD (which doesn't seem like much compared to Mark's sub 1:00's), and a 12:32 4BLD. First 4BLD attempt was 11:19 and off by two centers. Clock avg was fine for 2 rounds, PB in the 2nd, but I was hoping for better (sub 9). Only other PB was pyra single. MBLD was close to being good, 5/8 with all the misses by 3 corners. 6/8 would have been PB. Lots of bad solves and mistakes in the other events, dumbest one was in square-1, I couldn't get cube shape because it wouldn't turn where I thought it should, eventually realized I didn't orient it before I started, so it was upside down.


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## newtonbase (Apr 16, 2018)

bubbagrub said:


> Mind: blown! Does that work for all bld parities? If so, I can avoid learning the wing-parity alg...


Not, it's just corner parity that you avoid. Wing parity alg is a bit of a pain but not terrible


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## newtonbase (Apr 16, 2018)

chtiger said:


> Been awhile since I've posted anything. I still try to keep up with the thread though. I had a comp this weekend too, so I'll throw my results here with the rest.
> http://cubecomps.com/live.php?cid=2958&compid=19
> Nothing great, only thing I was happy with was sub 2:00 BLD (which doesn't seem like much compared to Mark's sub 1:00's), and a 12:32 4BLD. First 4BLD attempt was 11:19 and off by two centers. Clock avg was fine for 2 rounds, PB in the 2nd, but I was hoping for better (sub 9). Only other PB was pyra single. MBLD was close to being good, 5/8 with all the misses by 3 corners. 6/8 would have been PB. Lots of bad solves and mistakes in the other events, dumbest one was in square-1, I couldn't get cube shape because it wouldn't turn where I thought it should, eventually realized I didn't orient it before I started, so it was upside down.


Well done. Especially in BLD (because nothing else really matters .


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## mark49152 (Apr 16, 2018)

My 3BLD highlights from High Wycombe.


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## newtonbase (Apr 16, 2018)

mark49152 said:


> My 3BLD highlights from High Wycombe.


Great results. Sub 1 mean next comp!


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## openseas (Apr 17, 2018)

mark49152 said:


> My 3BLD highlights from High Wycombe.



Great job!

Interesting, you review each memo before moving to next. 2nd one was, 10a corner memo, (review 1-2s), 15s edge memo (~2s review), then execution. Is it your normal procedure? Or safety measure for comps?


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## pglewis (Apr 17, 2018)

Did an Ao50 as a check-in today. I don't really track those often, I'm not out to drop it a few tenths, more interested in when I'm comfortably set to get it sub 25. Still not quite there, still bleeding too much in mistake solves with botched crosses, clobbering solved pairs, CFOOOP solves, etc. Not too far off now though, the meat of the bell curve is glacially moving the right direction. Full OLL continues to pay off more as my recognition improves and some recent F2L refinements are starting to pay dividends.


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## h2f (Apr 17, 2018)

mark49152 said:


> My 3BLD highlights from High Wycombe.



Nice edge comms including S moves - congrats. 


chtiger said:


> Been awhile since I've posted anything. I still try to keep up with the thread though. I had a comp this weekend too, so I'll throw my results here with the rest.
> http://cubecomps.com/live.php?cid=2958&compid=19



4bld - wow. And sub2 3bld. Congrats!


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## Logiqx (Apr 17, 2018)

mark49152 said:


> My 3BLD highlights from High Wycombe.



So good to watch. Top job Mark!


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## SpartanSailor (Apr 17, 2018)

pglewis said:


> Did an Ao50 as a check-in today. I don't really track those often, I'm not out to drop it a few tenths, more interested in when I'm comfortably set to get it sub 25. Still not quite there, still bleeding too much in mistake solves with botched crosses, clobbering solved pairs, CFOOOP solves, etc. Not too far off now though, the meat of the bell curve is glacially moving the right direction. Full OLL continues to pay off more as my recognition improves and some recent F2L refinements are starting to pay dividends.
> 
> View attachment 9034


I know the feeling.... improving at glacial speeds and setting PBs by the smallest of margins. That said, it’s still improvement. 

I decided after this weekend’s comp that I need to find more efficient F2L algs for some of variants. I’m not going to set out to learn every possible variant, but there are a few cases that take a lot of moves and are not efficient. I expect the typical, “I just learned something so my times will slow down...” business, but in the long run it’ll be more fun to learn more stuff. 

I don’t do ao50 much either. In fact, I’ve only done an ao100 a couple specific times in a single session. Usually that’s several days of solved times for me. I consider that to be a pretty good indicator of where I’m at.

Good work to you for learning full OLL. That will certainly pay off.


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## mark49152 (Apr 17, 2018)

bubbagrub said:


> Mind: blown! Does that work for all bld parities? If so, I can avoid learning the wing-parity alg...


No you still need that, but here's a fast one that's quite easy to remember too: r' U2 r U2 r' U2 x r U2 r U2 r U2 r2 U2 x' r' U2



chtiger said:


> I had a comp this weekend too, so I'll throw my results here with the rest.


Nice job, especially 4BLD!



newtonbase said:


> Great results. Sub 1 mean next comp!


Next target sub-50 single 



openseas said:


> Interesting, you review each memo before moving to next. 2nd one was, 10a corner memo, (review 1-2s), 15s edge memo (~2s review), then execution. Is it your normal procedure? Or safety measure for comps?


No reviews in 3BLD. I pause for a second after corners to really visualise the images and try to get them to stick. For edges I just repeat the audio a few times. (I wouldn't call those reviews - I would define a review as going back after doing something else.)

I did look at my splits and disappointingly my memo in comp is the same as a year ago, even a little worse. At HWO it was 27-29 and at Worlds it was 27. At home I know I have improved and take 20-21 if pushing it. So I have some work to do to replicate that consistently, especially under comp pressure.



h2f said:


> Nice edge comms including S moves - congrats.


Thanks. That S move was an awkward setup to U M' U2 M U and as I was doing it I was annoyed with myself for not doing [U' M' U, L2] instead 

At home I now do lots of S and E slice edge comms when solving untimed, but I'm not confident enough to do them in comp without pauses yet.


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## h2f (Apr 17, 2018)

mark49152 said:


> Thanks. That S move was an awkward setup to U M' U2 M U and as I was doing it I was annoyed with myself for not doing [U' M' U, L2] instead
> 
> At home I now do lots of S and E slice edge comms when solving untimed, but I'm not confident enough to do them in comp without pauses yet.



I would do without S i in this case. I'm drilling S algs too, plus I've found some nice tricks like (R2 f2 R2 U) x2 etc.


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## newtonbase (Apr 17, 2018)

I had a go at your scramble @bubbagrub as I had 15 mins spare and the cube was ready to go. My second fastest DNF as I missed 3 wings in memo. It didn't feel right but I couldn't find them. It was also my fastest execution


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## pglewis (Apr 17, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> I know the feeling.... improving at glacial speeds and setting PBs by the smallest of margins. That said, it’s still improvement.
> 
> I decided after this weekend’s comp that I need to find more efficient F2L algs for some of variants. I’m not going to set out to learn every possible variant, but there are a few cases that take a lot of moves and are not efficient. I expect the typical, “I just learned something so my times will slow down...” business, but in the long run it’ll be more fun to learn more stuff.
> 
> ...



It's all right on schedule for what I'd hoped and still bodes well for legit sub-20 Ao5 potential by the end of the year. "The Wall" has inched down to 20-21 now and falling; sub 20s and even sub 19s are less rare. I had 17 straight solves with nothing worse than a :28.x to start that Ao50, that's longer than I can usually command my lookahead at that pace. Best rolling Mo3 was 21.08 and Ao5 was 22.30, so I'm starting to cluster some faster solves together and a little less all over the map. I passed the break-even point for full OLL vs. my 2-look a few months back and recognition improvement will keep paying for months to come. Life is pretty good, I just wanted to skip the 20s completely and jump straight from a 30 average to sub 20.


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## Selkie (Apr 18, 2018)

Nice multi result @newtonbase , feeling confident at going for 10 is a vast advancement from Weston 

Great video @mark49152 , was really enjoyable watching mate.


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## newtonbase (Apr 18, 2018)

Selkie said:


> Nice multi result @newtonbase , feeling confident at going for 10 is a vast advancement from Weston


Had another go today and it didn't go quite as well. 0/8 in 53:31. Memo would not stick at all. No real idea why that was.


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## moralsh (Apr 18, 2018)

wow, so many good results everyone, I'm falling a bit behind.

I noticed Mark's first sub 1 on cubecomps but forgot to post here, also noticed Chris 6x6.

I have my first 2018 comp next weekend and I haven't really practiced since Christmas, so I really expect nothing. No big blind and some harsh (for me cutoffs) won't be of help also . I might get angry at me for being one of the organizers 

Next month we organize another comp, and the following month another one (some big blind and multi on those I'll try to practice a bit and get some good results.

The following month we have Euros, and I find some euro-oldies missing any chance you could make it, guys?


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## Shaky Hands (Apr 18, 2018)

moralsh said:


> The following month we have Euros, and I find some euro-oldies missing any chance you could make it, guys?



Looking forward to this and it will be good to see you again there, too. I know @mark49152, @bubbagrub and myself are all heading out there.


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## mark49152 (Apr 18, 2018)

newtonbase said:


> Had another go today and it didn't go quite as well. 0/8 in 53:31. Memo would not stick at all. No real idea why that was.


Ouch! Sometimes that just happens. Better luck next time...


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## TinyNerd (Apr 18, 2018)

You will get faster... FAST!


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## phreaker (Apr 18, 2018)

Update from me:

I moved and lost all my specialized lubes. I have to replace those at some point, my OH cube is becoming a bit... Ew.

OH: I feel like I'm keeping my speed or slowing just a hair... but maybe it is making more sense. Hard to say.

3BLD: I finally feel like I'm getting it... I've had major issues tracing, but my last 3 solves have all been successes. I'm not timing myself yet, but I know I'm getting faster.

Still using all audio memo (yes, no visual). M2/OP. Trying to figure out comms as I have time, but memo and trusting my memo is probably #1 right now.

Grats to all those getting new PRs, and those attempting to do better. Without failure there is no success.


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## newtonbase (Apr 18, 2018)

mark49152 said:


> Ouch! Sometimes that just happens. Better luck next time...


It could have been worse. I was meant to be doing 9 but there was a repeat scramble. Trying again tomorrow with my big blind rooms


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## mark49152 (Apr 18, 2018)

Had a great 3BLD session today before work. Five sub-50s and four other sub-1s in a session of 14/20. Average of best 10 was 53.59. That's the first time I've had more than two sub-50s in the same session.


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## newtonbase (Apr 18, 2018)

mark49152 said:


> Had a great 3BLD session today before work. Five sub-50s and four other sub-1s in a session of 14/20. Average of best 10 was 53.59. That's the first time I've had more than two sub-50s in the same session.


Impressive. Well done.


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## JanW (Apr 18, 2018)

I received a Shengshou Mr. M Magnetic stickerless $6 cube. Somehow very heavy and bulky, strong snappy magnets and the surface of the cube is quite grainy, which gives it an odd feel. I absolutely hate it for normal 3x3 solving, way too blocky and corner cutting is abysmal. However, for some reason it seems I can't fail bld solves on it. Only 6 solves so far, but 6 consecutive successes is unheard of for me. Didn't even have 4 consecutive yet this year. First of those 6 was untimed, the next five was new Ao5 pb, 2:32.82.

Anyway, I wouldn't recommend this cube to the fast bld solvers in this thread. It's too slow. But for someone slow like me, it seems to work well. It's like solving a brick. I have this very solid item in my hands and I know exactly what it is doing all the time.


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## h2f (Apr 19, 2018)

mark49152 said:


> Had a great 3BLD session today before work. Five sub-50s and four other sub-1s in a session of 14/20. Average of best 10 was 53.59. That's the first time I've had more than two sub-50s in the same session.



Impressive!


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## JohnnyReggae (Apr 19, 2018)

I've been wanting to make some force cubes for a while now, but I don't want to break the bank in doing so as they are more of a show piece as apposed to cubes to be used in competition. At the moment I am between the MF3RS2 and the Yuxin Little Magic.

I have a couple MF3RS2's and I think that with magnets it is a great cube. I have however heard good reviews about the Yuxin Little Magic, but sadly I do not have one to compare directly with. Has anyone here used both these cubes to give an honest assessment ? I plan to magnetise them because I can, and IMO gives cubes much needed stability especially when cubes flex a lot.

Ideally I would love to make some Force Valk Power M's ... but my budget doesn't allow for that.


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## h2f (Apr 19, 2018)

JohnnyReggae said:


> I have a couple MF3RS2's and I think that with magnets it is a great cube. I have however heard good reviews about the Yuxin Little Magic, but sadly I do not have one to compare directly with. Has anyone here used both these cubes to give an honest assessment



These are differnet cubes. YLM is light, very smooth and hard to control - it's like GAN with purple ges and very loose (and with no magnets of course). MF3RS2 - you know what cube it is.


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## mark49152 (Apr 19, 2018)

Another great pre-work 3BLD session, 54.78 aob10/20 with 10 sub-1s of which two sub-50. Breaking the official sub-1 barrier at the weekend seems to have pushed me past a plateau at home too. I'm going to keep pushing 3BLD hard and see if I can break sub-50 in time for Euros! It's nice to feel confident instead of stuck 

I also had a 36.63 DNF by an M slice  ... Would have been first sub-40 and PB by 6 seconds.


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## SpartanSailor (Apr 19, 2018)

Morning BLD practice? Wow. I don’t have the time in the morning. Or, I suppose I do, but I feel too much pressure to get mybday going. I usually find time (when I do) at the end of the day. 

Then again, if I were doing it under a minute, I could sneak in some practice just about anywhere, anytime.


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## mark49152 (Apr 19, 2018)

Some people do early morning gym, swim or run. I do morning BLD


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## SpartanSailor (Apr 19, 2018)

mark49152 said:


> Some people do early morning gym, swim or run. I do morning BLD


I get that... just finished my morning run.


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## h2f (Apr 19, 2018)

mark49152 said:


> Some people do early morning gym, swim or run. I do morning BLD



Same. I use to wake up at 6 or 5.30 am to do some 3bld stuff.


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## JanW (Apr 19, 2018)

I kept up my 3bld hot streak from yesterday. After a few more successes I had 10 consecutive in CS timer and had 2 attempts at logging an Ao12! Then 2 DNFs... Both off by a pair of flipped edges. I am certain I did execute my memo for the pieces in question correctly both times, so they must have been memo errors. Didn't get the Ao12 this time, but 12 solves without execution errors isn't too bad either!


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## newtonbase (Apr 19, 2018)

Some impressive BLD work happening lately. Less so here. 
3/9 in just under the hour. One twisted corner, one flipped edge (on the 3BLD that I had to do as was running out of time). 2 more were close and 2 were bad. Definitely better than yesterday but more work required on memo technique.


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## moralsh (Apr 19, 2018)

Wow Mark, getting really strong at 3BLD :O

I still can't find time to practice anything I'd like to try some multi and BigBLD next week after the comp for the next comp (3 weeks later) just to try to get around my previous level. At Euros... I don't know what I'll be able to do I'll hace way less time on the weeks before and there I guess, But I'll definitely try.

First free time slot I manage to get, I'll get back to blind, I promise!


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## kbrune (Apr 19, 2018)

Hey guys. Is there anyone well informed on the whole Rubik's issue? 

I live in a small city and a friend tagged me in a facebook post about a local toy store hosting a competition for speedcubing. I assume it's sponsored by Rubik since their advertisement says they'll provide the cubes for the comp. Seems typical of all the other Rubik's sponsored comps ive heard of since they've started trying to insert themselves into speedcubing.

I'm not against this local business using Rubik's. I just know that the topic will come up and I'd rather be informed on the issue rather then blindly talking negatively about Rubik brand products and what the company is doing. 

Is Rubik being evil in anyway toward the WCA and the speedcubing community? I know there's a lawsuit against the cubicle I think. But I don't know any of the story behind it. Is the cubicle being wrongfully targeted?

Any links or info appreciated! 

Cheers!


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## SpartanSailor (Apr 20, 2018)

Came home from work today and my son was sitting there scrambling my cubes...

Me: “are you going to solve those and start learning some larger cube stuff?”

Him: “no. I just know you need some practise since we have a comp next month.”

*shakes head*


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## One Wheel (Apr 20, 2018)

kbrune said:


> Hey guys. Is there anyone well informed on the whole Rubik's issue?
> 
> I live in a small city and a friend tagged me in a facebook post about a local toy store hosting a competition for speedcubing. I assume it's sponsored by Rubik since their advertisement says they'll provide the cubes for the comp. Seems typical of all the other Rubik's sponsored comps ive heard of since they've started trying to insert themselves into speedcubing.
> 
> ...


Here's the statement from thecubicle, this statement from WCA and discussion on reddit. There is also this reddit thread and this reddit thread.

TL;DR it depends on who you ask.


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## pglewis (Apr 20, 2018)

kbrune said:


> Is Rubik being evil in anyway toward the WCA and the speedcubing community?



I think I'd call it an "estranged relationship" at this point. The WCA changed all trademark references on the website to "3x3" and have made moves to acquire sponsorship from non-puzzle manufacturers for future competitions. I've been wrong speculating before, but I wouldn't be surprised if the move to incorporate as a Nonprofit Public Benefit Corporation was also a move to protect themselves from aggressive trademark litigation. I can't say they've been attacked directly but they certainly seem to be taking a CYA attitude.


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## dboeren (Apr 20, 2018)

I would say yes, Rubik's is misbehaving towards the community as well as TheCubicle specifically.

Back to old guy stuff... I'm 46 years old. I do cubes up to 7x7 and up to Teraminx, but I'm not that fast. I've basically been in and out of cubing every year or two and each time I kind of have to start over a little bit as I've forgotten some of my algorithms.

Anyway, this time I want to try for a bigger push. I'm a Roux solver (on all size cubes) and have to this point been using two-look CMLL. Last night I started learning full CMLL. In the past I though it would be too difficult due to age and limited time, but screw it - I'm going for it. I'm tired of being stuck at around 45 seconds and want to get to sub-30.


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## mark49152 (Apr 20, 2018)

Coffee break PB: 3BLD single 39.55, my first sub-40. Scrambled an unsolved cube but the memo was LPVA IXRB SN / DW SJ BK. About 19.8 for both memo and exec.


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## SpartanSailor (Apr 21, 2018)

Did some 3BLD practice today. Tried to review less to push my memo a little. Got 1/5 but all were low to mid 6 mins. About a minute faster than normal. But all 4 DNFs were only off by a piece or two due to execution. A couple times I misidentified the sticker letter and placed it EXACTLY how I did the memo, so the error was in the memo. Another, I forgot a flipped edge. So, I’m okay with the errors given I wasn’t playing too safe. Still LOTS of room to improve my memo times...


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## h2f (Apr 21, 2018)

I'm back to big blindes. I had a crazy idea: in 196 days we got Polish Nationals. I thought if I do 3 solves of 5bld per day I might have chance to solve it during it and maybe got medal. Aother idea was that maybe doing big blindes will help my memo in 3bld. I got first sub 10 minutes memo in 5bld yesterday and 3:xx in 4bld - 4bld I was doing for weekly competition.


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## newtonbase (Apr 21, 2018)

mark49152 said:


> Coffee break PB: 3BLD single 39.55, my first sub-40. Scrambled an unsolved cube but the memo was LPVA IXRB SN / DW SJ BK. About 19.8 for both memo and exec.


Well done. 



SpartanSailor said:


> Did some 3BLD practice today. Tried to review less to push my memo a little. Got 1/5 but all were low to mid 6 mins. About a minute faster than normal. But all 4 DNFs were only off by a piece or two due to execution. A couple times I misidentified the sticker letter and placed it EXACTLY how I did the memo, so the error was in the memo. Another, I forgot a flipped edge. So, I’m okay with the errors given I wasn’t playing too safe. Still LOTS of room to improve my memo times...


Your times will tumble. 


h2f said:


> I'm back to big blindes. I had a crazy idea: in 196 days we got Polish Nationals. I thought if I do 3 solves of 5bld per day I might have chance to solve it during it and maybe got medal. Aother idea was that maybe doing big blindes will help my memo in 3bld. I got first sub 10 minutes memo in 5bld yesterday and 3:xx in 4bld - 4bld I was doing for weekly competition.


They are decent times and 3 solves a day will make a huge difference.


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## h2f (Apr 21, 2018)

newtonbase said:


> They are decent times and 3 solves a day will make a huge difference.



Yeah! I've seen a nice progress in memo during this week - from around 15 minutes to 7:51 today. It means that 3 solves take only 45-50 minutes per day.  

@mark49152, congrats!


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## SpartanSailor (Apr 21, 2018)

Just did a 19.993 Ao5 while hanging out waiting on my son... that’s a PB and my first ever sub-20 Ao5. 
(19.098), (22.875), 20.958, 19.332, 19.689. 

Pretty stoked about that one...


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## pglewis (Apr 22, 2018)

Wow, congrats to @mark49152 and @SpartanSailor on the 3bld and Ao5 respectively! 

Had an off day at Dixon. 0/2 on 3bld plus DNS as I was over 10 mins on the first two and there was a 15 min cumulative limit. My memory was awful the entire time really had trouble getting anything to stick. 

Typical "me" for 3x3 at comp: (1:03.45), 57.47, 35.87, 27.45, (22.39) lol. At least got a PB single by nearly 5 seconds on the last solve.


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## adimare (Apr 22, 2018)

What's the age range of this group? I'm 33 but I've had the soul of a cranky 50 year old since my early 20's.


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## mark49152 (Apr 22, 2018)

adimare said:


> What's the age range of this group? I'm 33 but I've had the soul of a cranky 50 year old since my early 20's.


Sounds like you'll fit in nicely here


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## One Wheel (Apr 22, 2018)

adimare said:


> What's the age range of this group? I'm 33 but I've had the soul of a cranky 50 year old since my early 20's.


I'm not sure, but I think I may be the youngest to post semi-regularly to this thread. I turned 31 earlier this month.


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## h2f (Apr 22, 2018)

One Wheel said:


> I turned 31 earlier this month.



Happy birthday!


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## SpartanSailor (Apr 22, 2018)

One Wheel said:


> I'm not sure, but I think I may be the youngest to post semi-regularly to this thread. I turned 31 earlier this month.


It’s always nice to get some youthful perspective.


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## newtonbase (Apr 23, 2018)

4/9 MBLD. Got myself totally confused when I picked up cube 5 instead of 4 and ended up screwing up both of them. Also messed up my 3BLD execution pretty badly. The other 2 were minors.


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## mark49152 (Apr 23, 2018)

@newtonbase - time?


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## pglewis (Apr 23, 2018)

I've talked about setting up a letter pair database for a while but kept putting it off because I wasn't in the mood to massage my image pair data out of the Google spreadsheet and into a relational DB. After hitting a bunch of images that stumped me while practicing and during my official attempts I finally broke down and migrated the data so I can throw a quick "flash cards" exercise together. I could have gone with Anki I suppose but I still have visions of a shared images DB one day. 

After getting it all moved over, I was pleased to see I'm down to only 50 empty slots.


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## newtonbase (Apr 23, 2018)

mark49152 said:


> @newtonbase - time?


59:00 (40:25) Memo was a bit slow but not terrible Execution was awful due to solving and reversing the wrong cube before making a hash of it again. Hoping for a score when I try again on Thursday.


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## mark49152 (Apr 23, 2018)

newtonbase said:


> 59:00 (40:25) Memo was a bit slow but not terrible Execution was awful due to solving and reversing the wrong cube before making a hash of it again. Hoping for a score when I try again on Thursday.


Good timing tho. How do you organise your memo?


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## dboeren (Apr 23, 2018)

I'm working my way through learning all 42 CMLL algorithms and it's a lot of work. I know probably more of you are CFOP users but the total number of algorithms is roughly similar. For you other old guys out there with families and jobs and limited time to cube, at what pace did you manage to memorize your chosen algorithm set? I feel like it's going to take me most of a week for each subset of 6 at my current pace.


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## Jason Green (Apr 23, 2018)

dboeren said:


> I'm working my way through learning all 42 CMLL algorithms and it's a lot of work. I know probably more of you are CFOP users but the total number of algorithms is roughly similar. For you other old guys out there with families and jobs and limited time to cube, at what pace did you manage to memorize your chosen algorithm set? I feel like it's going to take me most of a week for each subset of 6 at my current pace.


I don't remember exactly, probably 6 a week was pretty close on average for me though. I would try not to move on until I had practiced enough real solves to see the cases a decent amount and make sure I had them down. That worked well as far as them sticking once I did move on to the next ones.


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## newtonbase (Apr 23, 2018)

mark49152 said:


> Good timing tho. How do you organise your memo?


I'm still experimenting but blocks of 4 seems about right. Memo 1-4, review, memo 5-6,review all. Review all again just in case and then mess up 3BLD.
Each cube gets a different room with 2 locations for edges and 1 for corners. I aim for 4 words at the first edge location but it could be between 3 and all. Getting a solid memo on the first pass is the main challenge. I'm still learning what sticks best and my letter pairs list needs a lot of work.


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## mark49152 (Apr 23, 2018)

Sounds very similar to what I do. I try to rush initial memo as reviews seem more effective than dwelling on initial memo when it comes to making it stick.


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## newtonbase (Apr 23, 2018)

mark49152 said:


> Sounds very similar to what I do. I try to rush initial memo as reviews seem more effective than dwelling on initial memo when it comes to making it stick.


Yes, I'm trying to trust myself a little more with that but I dislike having to completely rework a memo on a review. I'll have plenty more attempts to work out what works best by Peterborough.


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## SpartanSailor (Apr 24, 2018)

dboeren said:


> I'm working my way through learning all 42 CMLL algorithms and it's a lot of work. I know probably more of you are CFOP users but the total number of algorithms is roughly similar. For you other old guys out there with families and jobs and limited time to cube, at what pace did you manage to memorize your chosen algorithm set? I feel like it's going to take me most of a week for each subset of 6 at my current pace.



I don’t even know. It took me MONTHS to learn full OLL and PLL. I try to learn little bits at a time and just accept that it takes me forever. I can’t imagine doing sufficiently many solves to “learn” an new alg set at this point. Not in days, or even weeks, anyway.


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## Mike Hughey (Apr 24, 2018)

I learned PLL in just a few weeks, but that was not so hard because it's all I worked on during those few weeks. And I learned algs based on how easy they were to learn, not how fast they were, so I wound up having to relearn most of them. :-( But that was many years ago.

The OLLs took me years. I went through several periods after learning them all where I forgot a bunch of them and had to relearn them. I'm happy to say that I know them all now, but I've spent most of my time cubing not knowing them all.


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## One Wheel (Apr 24, 2018)

Mike Hughey said:


> I learned PLL in just a few weeks, but that was not so hard because it's all I worked on during those few weeks. And I learned algs based on how easy they were to learn, not how fast they were, so I wound up having to relearn most of them. :-( But that was many years ago.
> 
> The OLLs took me years. I went through several periods after learning them all where I forgot a bunch of them and had to relearn them. I'm happy to say that I know them all now, but I've spent most of my time cubing not knowing them all.


This is almost exactly how I'm going about it, but I'm only about 3 years in, maybe halfway through OLL.


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## SpartanSailor (Apr 24, 2018)

Mike Hughey said:


> I learned PLL in just a few weeks, but that was not so hard because it's all I worked on during those few weeks. And I learned algs based on how easy they were to learn, not how fast they were, so I wound up having to relearn most of them. :-( But that was many years ago.
> 
> The OLLs took me years. I went through several periods after learning them all where I forgot a bunch of them and had to relearn them. I'm happy to say that I know them all now, but I've spent most of my time cubing not knowing them all.


I’d agree for OLL. I still have to “relearn” some of them. They just don’t come up frequently enough to get reinforced without specific practice. And I’m pretty sure I’m not using the optimal PLL algs either. I’d did the same and learned the ones that were easiest to learn. I’ve begun identifying the ones that could be done better, but haven’t committed to relearning those yet. I still have a LOT of F2L improvement to focus on.


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## dboeren (Apr 24, 2018)

Yes, I read advice that you should take care to learn the "good" algorithms up front to prevent having to re-learn better ones later and that makes a lot of sense to me. I'm working from Kian Mansour's list of CMLL algs.

Last night I made up an Anki (flashcard software) deck so I can randomly drill myself. So far I only have 6 cases I'm practicing. It lists the case like "H Columns", then I do the alg, verify that I didn't mess up the cube, and then check to make sure my alg matches the one I was supposed to do and performing it again. This was just on my phone as sort of a proof of concept, I may try to make a better deck with pics on the computer later.


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## pglewis (Apr 24, 2018)

Yeah, case frequency is a huge factor for me. Learning PLL went fairly quickly after 4LLL, OLL less so, and COLL is taking a while just to get H and Pi solid. I also consider "learning an alg" to have at least three components: learning the alg, getting it into muscle memory, and case recognition. 

After PLL I picked up new OLLs piece-meal for a while. By last fall I was at roughly half of OLL and it was beginning to cause a recognition tug of war between my 2-look and 1-look cases. It took me ~2-3 months to learn the rest of the 'em and probably another month or two before they were up to the same speed as my developed 2-look OLL on average. Muscle memory still needs a lot of work for some of them and recognition/AUF will be an ongoing thing for months to come to cut the pauses. All the lower frequency OLL cases except H are on my "drill these" list because they're still dodgy.


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## pglewis (Apr 24, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> I’ve begun identifying the ones that could be done better, but haven’t committed to relearning those yet.



I think it can be a potential bonus if the "replacement" alg starts from a different AUF. I don't have a /lot/ of cases I can do from two or more angles but the ones I can are awesome.


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## pglewis (Apr 24, 2018)

With my image list in a DB I have a usable proof of concept flash card trainer together. Image spamming here I come!


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## muchacho (Apr 24, 2018)

Ao5 PB: 14.424 (was 14.593 from 2 weeks ago)



Spoiler



67435 24-abr-2018 19:35:04 00:13.575 L2 B2 R2 U2 R2 D R2 D' L2 U' B' R L' B D2 L B2 L' D' U2
67434 24-abr-2018 19:34:28 00:12.919 F2 D' R2 F2 R2 F2 D2 B2 F2 D' L2 F' L2 U B2 D F' D R B U'
67433 24-abr-2018 19:33:54 00:16.080 U2 F2 D2 R2 F2 U' F2 D' L2 U' L' F' R2 D2 L B' F2 U2 R' D' R2
67432 24-abr-2018 19:33:22 00:13.617 D' B2 U' R2 U R2 U2 F2 D' F2 R2 F' D' R B L' D' L2 B2 R' D2 U2
67431 24-abr-2018 19:32:47 00:16.576 R2 B2 U F2 U2 L2 D B2 L2 B' D' R B' R F' D2 L2 B D2 U2


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## SpartanSailor (Apr 24, 2018)

pglewis said:


> I think it can be a potential bonus if the "replacement" alg starts from a different AUF. I don't have a /lot/ of cases I can do from two or more angles but the ones I can are awesome.


I have seen a few that look like improvements over my current OLLs and happen to be initiated from a different angle. I think I’ll begin with those because I think it’ll be less confusing to me if I treat it like a new alg rather than rewrite an existing one. Plus, if I can execute both options quickly, I may save a second here and there...


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## pglewis (Apr 24, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> I have seen a few that look like improvements over my current OLLs and happen to be initiated from a different angle. I think I’ll begin with those because I think it’ll be less confusing to me if I treat it like a new alg rather than rewrite an existing one. Plus, if I can execute both options quickly, I may save a second here and there...



More bonus points when I'm looking for an alternative OLL alg: if it solves a different OLLCP case than the one I know.


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## auienrst (Apr 25, 2018)

Hi guys,
not really a newcomer since I've been lurking for a long time, but yesterday I had a 3BLD success of 6min21 and I felt like bragging. I've already post my result in the blindfold accomplishment (too much sub-30 success there!), but since you are my main motivation, I though I should coming out publicly as an old cuber too 

Anyway, for a short intro: I'm 38 years old and I have solved my first cube ~18 years ago. I recently became (moderately) addictive to cubing. I had some "old cubes" : 3x3x3, 5x5x5, megaminx, square-1 and rex cube, and recently purchased a new 3x3x3, 2x2x2, morph's egg, skewb xtreme and an axis time wheel (last 2 "centers" commutators where are to find!) . I began by solving the 3x3x3 with a strange beginner method, and since then I have tried cfop with "intuitive" F2L and ~4look LL, Petrus, Heise, and I am now a huge fan of Roux (~sub45, with some PB below 35). I'm using 2look CMLL, but the CN blockbuilding part is too slow for now.

Anyway, I'm always enjoying reading you, so keep up!
--
Edit: Oh, and I forgot, I am using OP/M2 after a short period of OP/OP, with a weird PAO scheme


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## mark49152 (Apr 25, 2018)

Welcome @auienrst !


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## mafergut (Apr 26, 2018)

Hi guys! Long, long time since I last posted here. Been very busy with work and, the reduced spare time I have, was devoted to my YouTube channel, doing tutorials of non-speed puzzles and, to be honest, I have stopped practising speed almost completely. I must be much, much slower by now, and I only do some casual solves maybe once a week to avoid forgetting all the OLL / PLL algs. Some of the are already fading...

This thread looks now more like a Oldies BLD thread than anything. I envy you guys and I take the chance to congratulate you all on you new comp successes and PBs. I was planning on attending Euros in Madrid but I would only compete in 3x3 and I would have to start practising again, which I would do but I just injured my left thumb and will have my hand immobilized for at least 3-4 weeks wich will leave me with 1 month to do rehabilitation and maybe 1-2 weeks to practise. Add that to 1st comp nerves and I would be paying 35 € for a streak of 5 DNFs or above 25 second solves. So now I'm reconsidering it. Anyway, if I go and some of you are there on Saturday for 1st round of 3x3 don't forget to say hello to the guy with the t-shirt with my YouTube channel logo ;-) That would be me!

I'm thinking about recording a video talking about Roux so I might need some help / advice of you Rouxers out here. @muchacho, I'm thinking about you mainly 

Greetings to you all and I hope I will visit more frequently from now on.


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## mark49152 (Apr 26, 2018)

Welcome back @mafergut - you should go to Euros anyway regardless of competing, just to meet fellow cubers! It should be great fun.


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## newtonbase (Apr 26, 2018)

Welcome @auienrst and well done on the 3BLD success.

Got another 4/9 but sub 54 this time so 5 mins better. Unfortunately I think most of the errors were during memo as recall was great bar the 3BLD corners. I'd solved the cube 8 corners, undid them but then completely forgot the actual memo despite it being particularly disgusting.


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## kbrune (Apr 26, 2018)

@mafergut nice to see you around here again!


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## kbrune (Apr 26, 2018)

This 4x4 parity alg has been driving me absolutely crazy for the last 15 minutes... 

I've been trying to practice 5bld. When I got to parity for the r2 edges I decided to test if the 4x4 parity alg works on 5x5.

I messed it up. So I tried it on my 4x4 and I can not for the life of me get it to work.

To the question. If I do the parity alf twice on 4x4. it should solve itself right??? I keep ending up with half the centers off after the 2nd time.


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## mark49152 (Apr 26, 2018)

kbrune said:


> To the question. If I do the parity alf twice on 4x4. it should solve itself right??? I keep ending up with half the centers off after the 2nd time.


Which alg? The one I use cycles centres. So I need to do it I think 6 times to get back to solved state.


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## h2f (Apr 26, 2018)

For wings I use Yau's alg and it rotates top centers by U2.


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## openseas (Apr 26, 2018)

mark49152 said:


> Which alg? The one I use cycles centres. So I need to do it I think 6 times to get back to solved state.



@mark49152 / Yes, you're right. It needs 6 times for r2 parity (when you have odd wing targets).


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## moralsh (Apr 26, 2018)

Welcome @auienrst and welcome back @mafergut!

Did mi first 4BLD in ages, 11 minutes (slow) but It was solved, so I'm half happy.

I have another comp in 2 and a half weeks with 4BLD and Multi, Hope I can try at least a couple of Multis and some 10 4BLD or so before the comp.


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## kbrune (Apr 26, 2018)

mark49152 said:


> Which alg? The one I use cycles centres. So I need to do it I think 6 times to get back to solved state.



r2
D' L' F
l' U2 l' U2 F2 l' F2 r U2 r' U2 l2
F' L D


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## mark49152 (Apr 26, 2018)

kbrune said:


> r2
> D' L' F
> l' U2 l' U2 F2 l' F2 r U2 r' U2 l2
> F' L D


r' U2 r U2 r' U2 x r U2 r U2 r U2 r2 U2 x' r' U2

Way faster...


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## newtonbase (Apr 27, 2018)

kbrune said:


> r2
> D' L' F
> l' U2 l' U2 F2 l' F2 r U2 r' U2 l2
> F' L D


I use this one too but it doesn't seem very efficient. My thoughts. 
Firstly you can save both r2 moves if you set up your last sticker to UBr then do the parity alg without the first r2 then undo the setup. Your setups don't even have to be safe as you are only affecting 2 stickers so you can set up your U face stickers with a U move and the B side outer stickers with B moves. The only exceptions are with the r slice pieces but these are even easier. 
Obviously for UBr the r2 cancels. But, as the D' L' F sets up a swap of UBr with FUr then for UFr you swap those moves for an x and for BDr it's x2. This allows for other easy setups for U side outer stickers and B face stickers.
I'm pretty sure that this works but my testing has been limited as most of it only occurred to me during my son's story time last night. Hopefully I haven't missed a basic flaw.

Or just do @mark49152's alg.


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## h2f (Apr 27, 2018)

mark49152 said:


> r' U2 r U2 r' U2 x r U2 r U2 r U2 r2 U2 x' r' U2
> 
> Way faster...



Agree. I use it too. I remeber Robert Yau posted it 2 or 3 years ago.


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## Mike Hughey (Apr 27, 2018)

I'm confused. What are these weird 4x4x4 parity algorithms that you're doing? And why are they useful if they mess up centers? What do you use them for?

Sorry, this is probably very obvious, but I'm completely confused.

(On a side note, I just got a new PB 6x6x6 single out of nowhere, after a bunch of ordinary solves: 3:46.09! About 10 seconds faster than my previous PB, which was 6 years ago. And amazingly, it was done with freeslice, not AvG!)


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## mark49152 (Apr 27, 2018)

Mike Hughey said:


> I'm confused. What are these weird 4x4x4 parity algorithms that you're doing? And why are they useful if they mess up centers? What do you use them for?


Rob Yau's alg effectively does an r2 while leaving the UBr and DFr pieces in the same place. However, it does so by cycling the centres with others outside the r slice. So it's not a swap and you can't just do it twice to switch between solved state and parity state and back again. 

That will probably make more sense if you just try it and see what happens!


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## Mike Hughey (Apr 27, 2018)

I did, and I see what happens. But I'm having trouble understanding what it's used for. When would you use this algorithm? What is it useful for?


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## mark49152 (Apr 27, 2018)

Mike Hughey said:


> I did, and I see what happens. But I'm having trouble understanding what it's used for. When would you use this algorithm? What is it useful for?


In the r2 method, it's used to restore the r slice after solving the final wing when there is wing parity.


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## Mike Hughey (Apr 27, 2018)

That makes some sense, except how does it really help if it messes up the centers?


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## h2f (Apr 27, 2018)

Mike Hughey said:


> That makes some sense, except how does it really help if it messes up the centers?



I do centers first so it doesnt matter to me. For me it's just simpler than setup and classic alg (r2 D' L' F l' U2 l' U2 F2 l' F2 r U2 r' U2 l2 F' L D) which rotates top center too.

What alg do you use for wings parity? How do you deal with midges parity in 5bld?


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## mark49152 (Apr 27, 2018)

Mike Hughey said:


> That makes some sense, except how does it really help if it messes up the centers?


It doesnt mess them up if you are solving the parity case. The observation made above was that if you do it on a solved cube it doesn't reverse parity.

It's the same concept as swapping two unsolved centres. Obviously you can't swap them directly, but you can effectively do so using a 3-cycle with another centre of the same colour.

Since the alg cycles centres and swaps wings, you need to do it 2x3=6 times to go from solved to solved.

Edit: And as Grzegorz pointed out, it assumes you solve centres before wings.


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## Mike Hughey (Apr 27, 2018)

h2f said:


> I do centers first so it doesnt matter to me. For me it's just simpler than setup and classic alg (r2 D' L' F l' U2 l' U2 F2 l' F2 r U2 r' U2 l2 F' L D) which rotates top center too.
> 
> What alg do you use for wings parity? How do you deal with midges parity in 5bld?


My alg for wings parity is pretty bad for execution. But it's safe for me since I've done it many thousands of times.  I've occasionally tried learning others, but I never feel safe with them.
r2 B2 U2 l U2 r' U2 r U2 F2 r F2 l' B2 r2
I solve centers first, and for parity I set up to the wings at UF like that, ending the setups with a 2R slice and then a 3B' to preserve my centers, then undo those after performing it.


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## mitja (Apr 27, 2018)

Mike Hughey said:


> That makes some sense, except how does it really help if it messes up the centers?


If you do r2 first, then you can rehearse it in solved state, thats all. It is much faster alg then the alternative. I also solve centers first.


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## h2f (Apr 27, 2018)

Mike Hughey said:


> My alg for wings parity is pretty bad for execution. But it's safe for me since I've done it many thousands of times.  I've occasionally tried learning others, but I never feel safe with them.
> r2 B2 U2 l U2 r' U2 r U2 F2 r F2 l' B2 r2



I forgot about this one. But it rotates top center too.


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## kbrune (Apr 27, 2018)

@mark49152 

That r U2 alg is really nice. I'm switching it in right away. Does it work on 5 bld as well? Or is parity handled differently?


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## mark49152 (Apr 27, 2018)

kbrune said:


> @mark49152
> 
> That r U2 alg is really nice. I'm switching it in right away. Does it work on 5 bld as well? Or is parity handled differently?


It works just fine in 5BLD.


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## mafergut (Apr 28, 2018)

Hi guys! Thanks for the warm welcome. I didn't expect you to even remember me, tbh 
I have skimmed through the last 15-20 pages and I'm also missing there some of the regulars. I hope you are all well and safe, guys!


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## h2f (Apr 28, 2018)

mafergut said:


> Hi guys! Thanks for the warm welcome. I didn't expect you to even remember me, tbh
> I have skimmed through the last 15-20 pages and I'm also missing there some of the regulars. I hope you are all well and safe, guys!



Of course I remember you. I watch your QBAndo sometimes though I dont know Spanish.


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## openseas (Apr 29, 2018)

About to wrap up Southern championship.
Goals were 4BLD & MBLD Nats qual but missed all.

Broke official 3BLD DNF streak at 13, but again, tripple DNF’d at the final missed easy 3rd place.

MBLD: 4/8, twisted corners for 2 cubes, M slice off for another 2.

4BLD: mis traced the wing, wasted good 4 minutes to find what was wrong / ended up with 13:46.

5BLD: t centers were quite off.

333 - seriously considering not competing since I’m not practicing at all :-( that bad.

A side note: Jeff got another 19 for 3BLD, total 4 official sub 20, most in the world so far.


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## newtonbase (Apr 29, 2018)

openseas said:


> About to wrap up Southern championship.
> Goals were 4BLD & MBLD Nats qual bit missed all.
> 
> Broke official 3BLD DNF streat at 13, bit again, tripple DNF’d at the final missed easy 3rd place.
> ...


Some bad luck there but well done on the podium and congratulations to Jeff.


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## newtonbase (Apr 30, 2018)

4/9 again! Fastest attempt. Put a bit more into memo so execution was quicker 51:24 (38:13). 2 corner execution errors (a slip and a bad comm). Forgot to execute parity on 1 and missed a flipped edge and a twisted corner in memo. Recall was perfect. Fairly happy. 
With a full hour I'd be trying at least 10.


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## openseas (Apr 30, 2018)

newtonbase said:


> 4/9 again! Fastest attempt. Put a bit more into memo so execution was quicker 51:24 (38:13). 2 corner execution errors (a slip and a bad comm). Forgot to execute parity on 1 and missed a flipped edge and a twisted corner in memo. Recall was perfect. Fairly happy.
> With a full hour I'd be trying at least 10.



Yes, I can do 12, so you can. It's just a matter of how much to review. I'm trying to re-build stronger images/audios & clear rooms to make less review overall. I printed out all letter pairs and reviewed during the comp (while judging , later, my son and BLD folks found that out - we all reviewed together comparing each other's images and letter pairs, had a fun time!


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## newtonbase (Apr 30, 2018)

openseas said:


> Yes, I can do 12, so you can. It's just a matter of how much to review. I'm trying to re-build stronger images/audios & clear rooms to make less review overall. I printed out all letter pairs and reviewed during the comp (while judging , later, my son and BLD folks found that out - we all reviewed together comparing each other's images and letter pairs, had a fun time!


I am still working on my pairs list but it's looking reasonable. I have 3 sets of rooms but the only solid one is the one I used today. I reviewed after 4 then in full after 8.
It would be nice to get up to 12 by my next comp. I have 2 months and over 20 attempts to get there.


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## Lid (Apr 30, 2018)

How all days should start:
First Sq-1 solve of the day ...
(-2, 0) / (-4, -4) / (0, -3) / (0, -3) / (4, -2) / (-3, 0) / (5, 0) / (0, -3) / (4, 0) / (2, 0) / (2, -3) /


Spoiler



4,1/-1,0/-3,0/ (CS)
-2,-3/ (CO)
0,-3/-3,0/-1,-1/4,1/ (EO)
3,-3/5,-1/-5,1/0,3/3,0/-1,-1/-2,1/-1,-3 (EP)
time: 9.258 ...


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## openseas (May 1, 2018)

While flying to East Asia, tried 4BLD and 3/4/5 BLD relay. (A biz class suite, so, a little bit of rooms to spare 

4BLD was 9:11 pb but the relay was a total failure. Haven't practiced 5BLD much, t-center execution took a while and most of executions with 5x5x5 were difficult (turning perspective).


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## h2f (May 1, 2018)

openseas said:


> 4BLD was 9:11 pb but the relay was a total failure. Haven't practiced 5BLD much, t-center execution took a while and most of executions with 5x5x5 were difficult (turning perspective).



Better next time. Tcenters execution was a nightmare to me though the 3cycles are very easy to figure out.

My short report of doing 588 in 196 days - I did 38 of 48 planned solves in 16 days of April. Only 3 of them were success. I thought I'll start parcticing normal 5x5 to get used to cube. I think it works - many of dnfs were off 3cycle on centers/wings. T centers memo stopped to be a nightmare to me.

I need to make official 5bld attempt get qualification to Polish Nationals. It looks like I will have possibility in July or August.


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## openseas (May 1, 2018)

h2f said:


> Better next time. Tcenters execution was a nightmare to me though the 3cycles are very easy to figure out.



Yes, agreed. Both X & T center comms are easy. Almost intuitive comms are good enough but just lack of execution practice. I don't do any sighted solves for big cubes - both 4 & 5 BLDs are only events I'm touching those cubes. That is kinda my weakness in terms of tps.


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## SpartanSailor (May 1, 2018)

Lid said:


> How all days should start:
> First Sq-1 solve of the day ...
> (-2, 0) / (-4, -4) / (0, -3) / (0, -3) / (4, -2) / (-3, 0) / (5, 0) / (0, -3) / (4, 0) / (2, 0) / (2, -3) /
> 
> ...


Out of my lane... I “can” solve a sq-1 with my notes again. For a brief period last summer I was almost able to solve it with very basic algs, but never got past needin notes for parity. And I think a sundial is the best timing device give how long it took for me to do it. 

In fact, at this moment, I have a sq-1 that is in the cube shape but otherwise not solved. I just can’t bring myself to do it...


----------



## SpartanSailor (May 1, 2018)

I haven’t done much BLD practice the past couple weeks. But I DID do a few in my office today. Only got 1 success, but had to take a phone call in the midst of one... I’m shocked it was even close.


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## newtonbase (May 1, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> I haven’t done much BLD practice the past couple weeks. But I DID do a few in my office today. Only got 1 success, but had to take a phone call in the midst of one... I’m shocked it was even close.


I got a 2/2 success at the weekend despite having to break up a fight between my children midway. It was slow.
Got my first sub 10 min 4BLD DNF today. Execution errors on wings and centres but pretty close. Hoping to do a couple a week to keep my hand in while I focus on MBLD.


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## SpartanSailor (May 1, 2018)

Even though I haven’t been doing a lot of dedicated practice, I feel like I’m getting a little “better” at tracing and know when I’ve got all the pieces. I suspect with some more regular practice I’ll see improvements in my times. I don’t have a real goal, but I’d like to get sub-4 min which is the 2018 qualifying standard for US Nationals—seems as good a target as any. Fwiw, my 7-8min solves are a long way from 4 mins. 

I’m undecided right now if I’m ready to take the 4BLD challenge and start down that path...


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## newtonbase (May 1, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> Fwiw, my 7-8min solves are a long way from 4 mins.


I think you'll be surprised at how small the gap is between 8 min and 4 min solves. You are a competent blind solver now so it will only take a bit of a push.


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## openseas (May 2, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> Fwiw, my 7-8min solves are a long way from 4 mins.



@SpartanSailor / As @newtonbase mentioned, there is almost no gap between 4m vs 8m. Can be improved over a couple of days, if you put decent efforts for the practice.


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## mafergut (May 2, 2018)

h2f said:


> Of course I remember you. I watch your QBAndo sometimes though I dont know Spanish.


I also keep being amazed by your 3BLD videos and other stuff, even though I can't understand a word of Polish. And you have 800 subs already!!! Your channel is growing fast


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## newtonbase (May 2, 2018)

4/9 for the 4th time running. Saved 1s on previous attempt.


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## mark49152 (May 2, 2018)

Great consistency Mark


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## newtonbase (May 2, 2018)

mark49152 said:


> Great consistency Mark


That's the name of the game. On all 5 attempts at 9 I've succeeded on cube 2 and failed on cube 9 (mostly done the as 3BLD).
I feel a 9/9 coming on.


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## EvilGnome6 (May 2, 2018)

Selkie said:


> Great comp with the right mix of solves, PBs, catching up with the older brethren ( @Shaky Hands (Andy), @mark49152 (Mark) and @newtonbase (Mark) ) and beer (plus Jagermeister!)
> 
> Really pleased with the 6x6 mean since both Ron and Mike DeCock had overtaken me for the mean in the last month so nice to reclaim it with some breathing space. Also managed to clinch the 7x7 single too. PBs also for 4x4 and 5x5 averages but still poor results compared to home.



Wow. Great job on the 6x6 mean! No kidding about the breathing space. I'm not sure if I can catch up...


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## h2f (May 2, 2018)

mafergut said:


> I also keep being amazed by your 3BLD videos and other stuff, even though I can't understand a word of Polish. And you have 800 subs already!!! Your channel is growing fast



Thanks a lot.


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## newtonbase (May 3, 2018)

Finally got a score on 9 cubes with 6/9 in 52:56 (35:53). 2 execution errors and 1 awful memo with bad recall. The 3BLD was a success this time. Might take a slightly longer lunch and try 10 on Monday.


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## mark49152 (May 3, 2018)

Nice progress Mark!


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## openseas (May 3, 2018)

newtonbase said:


> Finally got a score on 9 cubes with 6/9 in 52:56 (35:53). 2 execution errors and 1 awful memo with bad recall. The 3BLD was a success this time. Might take a slightly longer lunch and try 10 on Monday.



Nice progress!

I don't do last one as normal 3BLD any longer due to my terrible DNF rate for a single 3BLD :-( + at this stage, accurate memo is more important than saving couple of minutes.


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## newtonbase (May 3, 2018)

openseas said:


> I don't do last one as normal 3BLD any longer due to my terrible DNF rate for a single 3BLD :-( + at this stage, accurate memo is more important than saving couple of minutes.


My DNF rate on the 3BLD is awful too so I actually did this with a full visual memo but it was last in memo and the first to be executed as it wasn't completely safe.
You are right that it's not really worth the time it saves. MBLD scores are achieved with solved cubes not fast times. Competitions don't come around often enough to take risks.


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## mark49152 (May 3, 2018)

newtonbase said:


> You are right that it's not really worth the time it saves. MBLD scores are achieved with solved cubes not fast times. Competitions don't come around often enough to take risks.


I agree with this. I put it off for as long as possible. Now I'm at the point where I have to focus on time/speed to fit enough cubes into the hour, and I reluctantly have to do a 3BLD cube because those 1-2 minutes saved make a real difference. I am still not comfortable with it though. It feels risky, and doing one cube differently to the rest messes with my flow.


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## muchacho (May 4, 2018)

Ao5 PB: 13.993 (was 14.424 from 10 days ago)



Spoiler



68211 04-may-2018 13:59:27 00:11.615 L2 D2 B2 R2 U F2 U2 L2 U L2 B' R D' U2 L' U R2 F' L D
68210 04-may-2018 13:58:56 00:13.239 D B2 L2 U' B2 F2 D2 R2 U' L2 U2 B D B2 R' D' U F' D' U' R' U'
68209 04-may-2018 13:58:20 00:12.127 D2 B2 D F2 U L2 F2 U' F2 L2 F' R' L F' L U2 F' L D' L U2
68208 04-may-2018 13:57:47 00:18.375 U' L2 D' L2 F2 U L2 U2 R2 D' B R F2 R2 L2 D2 L2 U' R2 B' D2
68207 04-may-2018 13:57:12 00:16.615 B2 U B2 D2 R2 U' R2 F2 U' F2 L2 F D' R' B U2 R F' U' R2 D2



Mo3 13.327


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## h2f (May 4, 2018)

muchacho said:


> Ao5 PB: 13.993 (was 14.424 from 10 days ago)



Nice. I rolled up my ao5 yesterday to 13.83. Gan Air SM is amazing.


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## muchacho (May 4, 2018)

Ouch, I thought I had just passed you on Ao5.


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## CLL Smooth (May 4, 2018)

Don’t you guys have a spreadsheet with all pbs? I may need to get on board with that. I’m tired of mining through the accomplishment thread.


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## muchacho (May 4, 2018)

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1XEEV3LObw7cHNW6S_AZdHJWqKLQFoXRW0wwnDneags4/edit#gid=0


----------



## h2f (May 4, 2018)

muchacho said:


> Ouch, I thought I had just passed you on Ao5.



Your previous PB was little bit better than mine (14.45). Since I bought Gan I've made around 2000 solves trying to turn as fast as I can. A top Polish speedcuber and trainer saw my solves and he said they are all right, "just turn faster". So I do.


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## pglewis (May 4, 2018)

h2f said:


> Your previous PB was little bit better than mine (14.45). Since I bought Gan I've made around 2000 solves trying to turn as fast as I can. A top Polish speedcuber and trainer saw my solves and he said they are all right, "just turn faster". So I do.



As a light-turner and fan of fast puzzles I'm looking forward to the new Yuxin eventually, based on early reports.


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## newtonbase (May 4, 2018)

I've missed registration for Peterborough. This comp was why I've been working on MBLD and was my only chance to qualify for the UKs. . Disappointed.


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## mark49152 (May 4, 2018)

newtonbase said:


> I've missed registration for Peterborough. This comp was why I've been working on MBLD and was my only chance to qualify for the UKs. . Disappointed.


That sucks. Seems it filled up in only an hour. 100 is too low a limit for today's level of interest.


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## newtonbase (May 5, 2018)

mark49152 said:


> That sucks. Seems it filled up in only an hour. 100 is too low a limit for today's level of interest.


Looks like quite a few people got caught out.


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## h2f (May 5, 2018)

newtonbase said:


> I've missed registration for Peterborough. This comp was why I've been working on MBLD and was my only chance to qualify for the UKs. . Disappointed.



Yeah thats bad.


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## openseas (May 6, 2018)

@David Zemdegs / Congrats on your son’s new PB!!!!!


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## David Zemdegs (May 6, 2018)

openseas said:


> @David Zemdegs / Congrats on your son’s new PB!!!!!


More importantly - I got my new PB average today!


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## newtonbase (May 6, 2018)

David Zemdegs said:


> More importantly - I got my new PB average today!


Well done @David Zemdegs (and Feliks).


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## bubbagrub (May 7, 2018)

I went to my first non-European competition today (Qualifornia) -- it was a really fun competition. Here's my quick highlights:

Finally got a 3BLD mean and a 5/5 MBLD result.
Got to judge Max Park's 6x6 WR.
My first ever podium (2nd in feet).
A bunch of other PBs.
Watching Graham get 37/42 in MBLD.
It was a tiny competition -- fewer than 20 competitors, but everyone was super friendly and very welcoming of a non-regular.


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## h2f (May 7, 2018)

bubbagrub said:


> I went to my first non-European competition today (Qualifornia) -- it was a really fun competition. Here's my quick highlights:
> 
> Finally got a 3BLD mean and a 5/5 MBLD result.
> Got to judge Max Park's 6x6 WR.
> ...




Awsome. Congrats your PBs and a podium.


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## mark49152 (May 7, 2018)

@bubbagrub - Sounds like great fun. Congrats on those fantastic PBs!


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## moralsh (May 7, 2018)

wow, not bad at all, Ben. I'm jealous


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## newtonbase (May 7, 2018)

bubbagrub said:


> I went to my first non-European competition today (Qualifornia) -- it was a really fun competition. Here's my quick highlights:
> 
> Finally got a 3BLD mean and a 5/5 MBLD result.
> Got to judge Max Park's 6x6 WR.
> ...


Some great results Well done. 
Looks like quite a comp.


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## JohnnyReggae (May 7, 2018)

A new ao12 3x3 PB  So close to sub 14 ....

Generated By csTimer on 2018-5-7
avg of 12: 14.06

Time List:
1. 15.70 L D2 F2 D L2 B2 L2 F2 D2 B2 D2 L' B' U' F U2 R F D L2 F 
2. 13.12 L2 U F2 R2 D' L2 D B2 D2 B2 F2 L' D F D2 R' U2 B2 R2 D' L' 
3. 14.42 L2 B D2 R2 B R2 B' D2 R2 B2 U L F D' F2 R2 D R2 F' U2 
4. 15.02 L R2 B' L2 R2 F' L2 B2 U2 F' D2 F L D' B' U F2 U' L2 R D 
5. 12.95 F L2 D' F' R2 B U F L F' R2 U F2 R2 L2 U2 F2 D' B2 
6. 13.76 R B2 F2 R F2 L' U2 L' D2 L D2 F' R' B' R U B R' D L' R 
7. (16.92) U' L2 B2 U L2 D R2 U2 F2 L2 D L' U' R2 D' R2 F' R D' B 
8. 13.45 R2 U2 B2 D B2 D R2 D2 U' R2 L F' L2 F' D' U' F' L' B2 D2 
9. 14.59 F2 L2 D' F2 D' B2 D' L2 U' L2 D' R D2 B' R2 B D' L' U F' D 
10. 13.81 B D2 R2 D R2 F2 D2 U L2 F2 U' L D' R' U' R' B' L B' F' 
11. (11.93) U F2 U2 R F R2 L2 U R2 F R2 B' R2 F D2 F' D2 B2 L2 
12. 13.77 F' L2 B U2 B' R2 F D2 L2 R2 F2 L' R U' L2 D L2 R' D R


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## openseas (May 7, 2018)

bubbagrub said:


> I went to my first non-European competition today (Qualifornia) -- it was a really fun competition. Here's my quick highlights:
> 
> Finally got a 3BLD mean and a 5/5 MBLD result.
> Got to judge Max Park's 6x6 WR.
> ...



@bubbagrub /Sounds like fun & congrats on PBs & your podium. Yes, they are really nice and friendly, great to hang out with.


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## phreaker (May 7, 2018)

David Zemdegs said:


> More importantly - I got my new PB average today!



A man who truly has his priorities straight!

Nice job! So, now the real question: When are you going to get the BLD bug like everyone else here?


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## phreaker (May 7, 2018)

For those doing 4BLD, is r2 / U2 still the preferred beginners method? I know M2 already so... r2 seems logical. U2?

Starting to look at making the jump from 3BLD to 4BLD... Part of that is just working on mechanics, so there's a bit less pressure on my memory.

Memory systems: I assume everyone here is visual + loci at that level?


----------



## openseas (May 7, 2018)

phreaker said:


> For those doing 4BLD, is r2 / U2 still the preferred beginners method? I know M2 already so... r2 seems logical. U2?
> 
> Starting to look at making the jump from 3BLD to 4BLD... Part of that is just working on mechanics, so there's a bit less pressure on my memory.
> 
> Memory systems: I assume everyone here is visual + loci at that level?



Yes. r2 & U2 are easy methods to begin with if you're a M2 user.
r2 is almost identical to M2 while U2 requires a new set up moves since it will be your first ever "center piece" solves. Other than that, the concept of U2 is identical to M2 + more flexible then M2. For example, if you have a parity in M2, you have to solve with corner parity, but for U2, you just need to do "U2" one more time. The only new algorithm you need to learn will be D face swap.

For r2, just keep in mind that r2 parity is completely independent of corners. There are two parities: one is for r2 which means your r2 trace gives you "odd" number of r2 targets. The second one is when you have the odd corner targets. 

Good luck!


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## phreaker (May 7, 2018)

openseas said:


> Yes. r2 & U2 are easy methods to begin with if you're a M2 user.
> r2 is almost identical to M2 while U2 requires a new set up moves since it will be your first ever "center piece" solves. Other than that, the concept of U2 is identical to M2 + more flexible then M2. For example, if you have a parity in M2, you have to solve with corner parity, but for U2, you just need to do "U2" one more time. The only new algorithm you need to learn will be D face swap.
> 
> For r2, just keep in mind that r2 parity is completely independent of corners. There are two parities: one is for r2 which means your r2 trace gives you "odd" number of r2 targets. The second one is when you have the odd corner targets.
> ...



U2 seemed almost identical to M2 just different parity solution, including the funky top targets, etc.

r2. I believe I have to learn a K target and parity.

Parity for corners using OP: U (Sexy) (PLL Parity) (r-sexy) U'. (No problems there.... and I can do PLL Parity eyes closed at this point 

I don't know how my memory will do.. we'll see as I work on the cube manipulation.


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## openseas (May 7, 2018)

phreaker said:


> Parity for corners using OP: U (Sexy) (PLL Parity) (r-sexy) U'. (No problems there.... and I can do PLL Parity eyes closed at this point



I guess you meant "U2" not "U".

And not sure what is your K target but assuming one of the middle layer,

FU and BD are exactly the same & even advanced M2 can be used as well.

The left middle layer (l) is based on the basic BU solution - (B' R B) (U R2 U') M2 (U R2 U') (B' R' B). For DB, just setup l which moves DB to BU position. For UF, setup l' in front, For FD, setup l2.


----------



## phreaker (May 7, 2018)

openseas said:


> I guess you meant "U2" not "U".
> 
> And not sure what is your K target but assuming one of the middle layer,
> 
> ...



Ok... The l layer solutions make sense. And U2 is correct, despite my meaning what I said .

As I said.. I'm learning.


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## SpartanSailor (May 8, 2018)

Go away for a couple days and I have dozens of posts to catch up with! 

I have been pushing myself a little more thru memo the last couple days. Had some much improved times, but all dnfs. Until just now... 4:42.33. Which is a PB and something I am quite pleased with at this time. 

Sure it isn’t a new standard, but I am thrilled to get a new PB. This is only my second sub-5 success.

Edit: Okay... now I’m super stoked! My very next was 4:23


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## newtonbase (May 8, 2018)

What 4BLD tutorials have you watched @phreaker? Corey Sakowski has an excellent series. Also, J-Perm released a full tutorial yesterday I haven't watched it but his 3BLD videos have been very good.


----------



## Shaky Hands (May 8, 2018)

newtonbase said:


> I've missed registration for Peterborough. This comp was why I've been working on MBLD and was my only chance to qualify for the UKs. . Disappointed.



Yeah that’s a shame mate. Maybe there will be some cancellations. I had to time a fuel refill on the motorway to register and I think I was 68th to register, about 15 minutes after registration opened.



mark49152 said:


> That sucks. Seems it filled up in only an hour. 100 is too low a limit for today's level of interest.



Cubing is so popular these days, and the location is fairly central too.



bubbagrub said:


> I went to my first non-European competition today (Qualifornia) -- it was a really fun competition. Here's my quick highlights:
> 
> Finally got a 3BLD mean and a 5/5 MBLD result.
> Got to judge Max Park's 6x6 WR.
> ...



That’s awesome. Well done Ben. I’m competing in Zurich this coming weekend, so that’s my bonus comp.


----------



## SpartanSailor (May 8, 2018)

newtonbase said:


> What 4BLD tutorials have you watched @phreaker? Corey Sakowski has an excellent series. Also, J-Perm released a full tutorial yesterday I haven't watched it but his 3BLD videos have been very good.


I watched JPerm’s 4x4 tutorial last night. It made sense to me. I have a few things to learn prior to diving into 4BLD, although I do like having a solid understanding of what it takes. 

He also references another 4x4 tutorial which I may check out.


----------



## openseas (May 8, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> He also references another 4x4 tutorial which I may check out.



He is referring to Tim Goh (4BLD, youtube ID). Tim is one of Texas BLD gangster, a very smart & good kid. Also one of my Sensei in big BLD.


----------



## SpartanSailor (May 8, 2018)

openseas said:


> He is referring to Tim Goh (4BLD, youtube ID). Tim is one of Texas BLD gangster, a very smart & good kid. Also one of my Sensei in big BLD.



I’m going to need to learn M2 if I want to make the jump to 4BLD...


----------



## newtonbase (May 8, 2018)

openseas said:


> He is referring to Tim Goh (4BLD, youtube ID). Tim is one of Texas BLD gangster, a very smart & good kid. Also one of my Sensei in big BLD.


His 4BLD tips videos are really good. Looking forward to seeing more of them.


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## Logiqx (May 9, 2018)

newtonbase said:


> I've missed registration for Peterborough. This comp was why I've been working on MBLD and was my only chance to qualify for the UKs. . Disappointed.



Damn. I know how that feels having done it myself earlier this year. I'm sorry to hear it got you when you've been working so hard on MBLD.

It appears that I've let my times slip after a month of relatively low cubing activity. Global times for 2H have slipped from low 15's to sup-16, OH from sub-25 to sup-26 and Pyra from sub-7 to high-7. I'd better make time to practice before Hastings. I think over 50% of my practice time is getting back to where I used to be before a pause!


----------



## SpartanSailor (May 9, 2018)

0 for 6 with 3 BLD practice this morning. That’s a lot of DNFs to start the day. 

The good news... 5 were in the 4 min range and only 1 was over 5 mins at 5:17. The fastest was 4:02 where I forgot a corner twist. I’ve been pushing myself to do memo faster. Less review. Some of the DNFs were a mess and I’m not sure if it was a setup-return error or what... but these times are considerably faster than my more conservative approach. 

Despite the DNFs, I’m still encouraged. I suspect with more practice the “rushed” or “hurried” feeling will settle and I’ll begin seeing success more often at this time range (4-5 mins). Who knows... by the end of the year I could even maybe have a sub-4 official time if things go well and there are sufficient number of comps to provide an opportunity.


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## SpartanSailor (May 9, 2018)

Logiqx said:


> Damn. I know how that feels having done it myself earlier this year. I'm sorry to hear it got you when you've been working so hard on MBLD.
> 
> It appears that I've let my times slip after a month of relatively low cubing activity. Global times for 2H have slipped from low 15's to sup-16, OH from sub-25 to sup-26 and Pyra from sub-7 to high-7. I'd better make time to practice before Hastings. I think over 50% of my practice time is getting back to where I used to be before a pause!


I was thinking the same thing about my times and lack of recent steady practice. I was feeling good and getting lots of low 20s and even sub-20s much more often. But after a few weeks of limited practice I’ve noticed that my times are much slower. (23s up to 25s or 26s again). 

I worked so hard to break under 25, it’s a little Sad to see that be my hurdle again.


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## mark49152 (May 9, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> Despite the DNFs, I’m still encouraged. I suspect with more practice the “rushed” or “hurried” feeling will settle and I’ll begin seeing success more often at this time range (4-5 mins). Who knows... by the end of the year I could even maybe have a sub-4 official time if things go well and there are sufficient number of comps to provide an opportunity.


Yeah you're on the right track. The only way to get faster at BLD is to rush it. DNFs don't matter. Push yourself to a pace where you're getting <30% success rate and persist at that pace until accuracy comes back to >60%. Rinse and repeat.

It also helps to break down what you're doing during memo and think systematically about how to speed it up.

What are your splits?


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## phreaker (May 9, 2018)

newtonbase said:


> What 4BLD tutorials have you watched @phreaker? Corey Sakowski has an excellent series. Also, J-Perm released a full tutorial yesterday I haven't watched it but his 3BLD videos have been very good.



I watched Noah's, off the forum, and I just watched Jperms. We'll see what else I look at .


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## newtonbase (May 9, 2018)

First attempt at 10 cubes. 4/10 in 53:30 (36:21). 3 memo errors including cube 1 being in the wrong orientation. Recall was a bit sloppy with 3 errors but they were close and I could have done another review within the hour.


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## SpartanSailor (May 9, 2018)

mark49152 said:


> Yeah you're on the right track. The only way to get faster at BLD is to rush it. DNFs don't matter. Push yourself to a pace where you're getting <30% success rate and persist at that pace until accuracy comes back to >60%. Rinse and repeat.
> 
> It also helps to break down what you're doing during memo and think systematically about how to speed it up.
> 
> What are your splits?


I don’t know my splits. May have to start using csTimer so I can track that.


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## openseas (May 9, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> I don’t know my splits. May have to start using csTimer so I can track that.



Yes, it helps to understand which one is your weakness. With OP/OP, you can get down to 2~3 min, 1:30 memo / 1:30 execution split. You can also start M2. OP is an easy approach but there is no upside other than spamming TPS. As you noticed already, with M2, you can come down to 1min level, and also applicable to big cubes.


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## SpartanSailor (May 10, 2018)

I’ll begin learning some M2 after this next comp. Good, bad or indifferent... I think it’s time to step it up. It definitely will be necessary if I move up to 4BLD.


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## openseas (May 10, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> I’ll begin learning some M2 after this next comp. Good, bad or indifferent... I think it’s time to step it up. It definitely will be necessary if I move up to 4BLD.



You mean tea time? Still 2 weeks away, enough time to make transition. It will also cut down your edge time quite a bit just after a couple of days.


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## SpartanSailor (May 10, 2018)

Yep. Tea Time, that’s the one. Are you guys still coming?


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## openseas (May 10, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> Yep. Tea Time, that’s the one. Are you guys still coming?



So far, yes. I'll be on the road the whole month of this May - only if everything works like clockwork, can't afford one single slip of any schedule to make that trip. (Italy next week, East Asia week after, arriving home the morning we're supposed to leave.... so....)


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## newtonbase (May 10, 2018)

4/10 again today. Tried the memo in blocks of 5 which didn't work. I went over the hour. I had a couple of the worst scrambles I ever seen One cube had 3 solved pieces but there were still 11 targets. Another had 3 twisted corners.


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## SpartanSailor (May 10, 2018)

I am trying some M2 solves today using notes and even writing out the memo. These are a complete disaster. I’m CLEARLY doing something wrong.

If you land on the buffer, you just start a new cycle, right? Same as for OP? And the whole C/W and I/S swap... that’s not working either. I know the “rule” but it’s not working.


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## openseas (May 10, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> I am trying some M2 solves today using notes and even writing out the memo. These are a complete disaster. I’m CLEARLY doing something wrong.
> 
> If you land on the buffer, you just start a new cycle, right? Same as for OP? And the whole C/W and I/S swap... that’s not working either. I know the “rule” but it’s not working.



Yes, cycle break is exactly the same. Do you know those m slice targets have two different alg whether it is the 1st pair(odd) or 2nd pair(even)?

Show me your scramble for example (scramble on your color scheme not by WCA scheme)


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## adimare (May 10, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> I am trying some M2 solves today using notes and even writing out the memo. These are a complete disaster. I’m CLEARLY doing something wrong.
> 
> If you land on the buffer, you just start a new cycle, right? Same as for OP? And the whole C/W and I/S swap... that’s not working either. I know the “rule” but it’s not working.



If you're having trouble figuring out execution you can use http://scrambld.cubing.net, you can input a scramble and it can generate an M2 solution for you.


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## SpartanSailor (May 10, 2018)

Dumb question, but when using M2 you still need to do the set up AND return, right? There’s no magical way that it skips over the return sequence, right?


Looking at the scramble... I think the software is using a different buffer than I use. 

Where are the buffers? My corner solution is not the same. Nor is my edge solution for the scramble I typed in...


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## adimare (May 10, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> Dumb question, but when using M2 you still need to do the set up AND return, right?


Yes



SpartanSailor said:


> Looking at the scramble... I think the software is using a different buffer than I use.


It uses UBL for corners and DF for edges.



SpartanSailor said:


> My corner solution is not the same. Nor is my edge solution for the scramble I typed in...


If cycle breaks are required BLD solutions aren't unique, so that's expected; but the software should produce a valid solution (you can check by clicking on the alg.cubing.net button).


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## openseas (May 10, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> Where are the buffers? My corner solution is not the same. Nor is my edge solution for the scramble I typed in...



M2 is using DF as buffer. Are you referring to Buffer or color scheme?


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## pglewis (May 10, 2018)

A couple other random M2 things:

I suggest solving edges in pairs when doing it sighted. The offset M slice can be confusing even when you're getting things right.

Test your execution with a solved cube, check that the buffer piece goes where it should, doing the same letter twice should end up solved again. 

Speffz N: use Uw R Uw' as the setup (lefty mirror for H)

Q: (U M')x3 (U M) (U M')x4 (there's a variation for using U' too, but U M' are very comfortable for me)


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## newtonbase (May 10, 2018)

Give us the scramble and we'll crowd source a solution.


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## SpartanSailor (May 10, 2018)

adimare said:


> Yes
> 
> 
> It uses UBL for corners and DF for edges.
> ...


Gotcha


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## SpartanSailor (May 10, 2018)

newtonbase said:


> Give us the scramble and we'll crowd source a solution.


Looks like I’m just ironing out the algs. The special cases still mess me up and I think I had the wrong alg for one of them... which of course ruins everything. 

I like the flow of M2 so far. Really need to dial the setup moves, etc... 

Playing with that ScramBLD which is good to practice, but I know it’s going to melt my brain when I have to track pieces AND remember is the I/S/C/W are first or second in a pair all while trying to memo simultaneously.


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## newtonbase (May 10, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> Looks like I’m just ironing out the algs. The special cases still mess me up and I think I had the wrong alg for one of them... which of course ruins everything.
> 
> I like the flow of M2 so far. Really need to dial the setup moves, etc...
> 
> Playing with that ScramBLD which is good to practice, but I know it’s going to melt my brain when I have to track pieces AND remember is the I/S/C/W are first or second in a pair all while trying to memo simultaneously.


You should find the 1st/2nd thing quite easy to get used to if you memo in pairs. Some people such as @mark49152 switch the letter during memo so if W is 2nd the memo C etc.
Once you get the basic algs down then you can learn some advanced M2 so you can avoid them.


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## openseas (May 10, 2018)

@SpartanSailor / Below picture shows my recommended setup for M2 + comparison.


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## newtonbase (May 10, 2018)

openseas said:


> @SpartanSailor / Below picture shows my recommended setup for M2 + comparison.
> 
> View attachment 9102


Interesting list. I use quite a few of your "not recommended" algs.


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## SpartanSailor (May 10, 2018)

Okay.... now I'm home. I'm going to do some BLD practice using csTimer for the first time--took me a moment to figure out how to set it up so I can get the memo/execution splits.

Not sure what I'm going to do with the M2 practice for now... I think I just need to drill the set-ups for M2 and get the special cases down. As is always the case, however, as you learn something new to improve speed it takes some time where it takes longer.

Edit:
Did some OP/OP practice pushing memo. It was abysmal. I had a couple that just dumped my memo as soon as I started... I think seeing the computer time running might have distracted me. But I had a few that weren't terrible, but off by a couple pieces... Thanks so the splits I know I was 
DNF 2:53/1:41
DNF 2:45/1:43
DNF 2:45/2:17
6:06 (4:06/1:59)

In the 4 to 5 minute range it looks like I can save a LOT (assuming accuracy improves) in the memo phase. 

Any way you slice it (no pun intended) I'm comfortable a times a fair amount faster than a month ago.


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## openseas (May 11, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> Did some OP/OP practice pushing memo. It was abysmal. I had a couple that just dumped my memo as soon as I started... I think seeing the computer time running might have distracted me. But I had a few that weren't terrible, but off by a couple pieces... Thanks so the splits I know I was
> DNF 2:53/1:41
> DNF 2:45/1:43
> DNF 2:45/2:17
> ...



Good start. You can improve your memo - no shortcut but "practice a lot" + "rush your memo" + "try not to review so much".

Stronger images for corner (if you memo corner first / execute edge first) while build audio for edge.


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## SpartanSailor (May 11, 2018)

Just being aware of this extra information will be helpful. Also, the pressure of the clock is good for practice too...

I do memo corners then edges and execute edges then corners. I haven’t taken to images sounds. So far, I tend to come up with sentences (nonsense ones) and sometimes I just run with a string of letters. 

There are a couple spots that I have pretty standard pairings to solve, but those are mostly flipped edges already in place or twisted corners...


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## mark49152 (May 11, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> In the 4 to 5 minute range it looks like I can save a LOT (assuming accuracy improves) in the memo phase.


Yep - at your level the quickest wins are in memo. As Jae said, there are no shortcuts, but there are certainly things you can do to train your memo. Try tracing & finding all the pieces on the cube without memorizing them, and time it. If you're anything like me, you'll be shocked to find it takes you 40-50 seconds just to find the pieces. You can practise that alone. Also, having solid images for letter pairs is important as it helps you build up an image-based memo without delay, as well as improving accuracy.

Generally I think a good target for 3BLD splits is roughly 50/50.


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## SpartanSailor (May 11, 2018)

mark49152 said:


> Yep - at your level the quickest wins are in memo. As Jae said, there are no shortcuts, but there are certainly things you can do to train your memo. Try tracing & finding all the pieces on the cube without memorizing them, and time it. If you're anything like me, you'll be shocked to find it takes you 40-50 seconds just to find the pieces.  You can practise that alone. Also, having solid images for letter pairs is important as it helps you build up an image-based memo without delay, as well as improving accuracy.
> 
> Generally I think a good target for 3BLD splits is roughly 50/50.


There are never shortcuts...

I know I can move a little faster in execution, but that bit feels pretty smooth (OP). If I could get my eventually memo down to 1:30-1:40 and still be relatively consistent at 3:00-3:30 total time, that would be something I never imagined even only 5 months ago when i thought to “try this blind solving thing”

I can tell from just playing today that if I can get the M2 stuff into muscle memory and smooth like I do with t-perms using OP, I’ll drop time like dead weight. So... I’m very optimistic that by the end of 2018 I should be relatively consistent at sub-4.

Until my actual ability gives me a reason to chase something faster, for now, Sub-4 is my goal since that is the U.S. Nationals Qualifying time for 2018 Nationals. I’m not going, but it’s as good a target goal as any. Perhaps I’ll be able to meet the 2019 qualifying time by the time that comes around—I wouldn’t imagine it would change too much.


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## SpartanSailor (May 11, 2018)

Found some better (easier for me) algs for a couple set-ups and using M2. Also found a nicer parity alg....

Already some early practice with BLD DNFs....  Just had three that were all sub-4 and only off by a piece of two. Must have been memo failure due to a lack of review. But I had 
3:30 (2:09/1:21)
3:46 (2:01/1:45)
3:44 (2:02/1:42)

I KNOW I was pushing myself, so I'm not too concerned with the DNFs. But I didn't "rush" when compared to last nights, yet considerably faster still. So, I'm hopeful... I'm going to keep working on my memo speed and playing with the M2 algs to get them more into muscle memory.


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## phreaker (May 11, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> Found some better (easier for me) algs for a couple set-ups and using M2. Also found a nicer parity alg....
> 
> Already some early practice with BLD DNFs....  Just had three that were all sub-4 and only off by a piece of two. Must have been memo failure due to a lack of review. But I had
> 3:30 (2:09/1:21)
> ...


Which parity alg?


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## mark49152 (May 11, 2018)

@SpartanSailor - nice work, I think improvement will come faster than you expect.


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## SpartanSailor (May 11, 2018)

phreaker said:


> Which parity alg?



(D’ Rw2 U) M2 (U’ Rw2 D) 

I can’t recall who the video was from... but he also discussed how to plan the memo to purposefully place the UB and UL pieces in reverse location so you can avoid doing the parity alg all together... I fully understood the concept, but it was a bit too advanced for me at this point. But it’s something I’ll definitely keep in mind when I’m comfortable with M2 and ready to improve my skills further


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## phreaker (May 11, 2018)

Tried my 1st MBLD. 0/2. I felt like the memo w


SpartanSailor said:


> (D’ Rw2 U) M2 (U’ Rw2 D)
> 
> I can’t recall who the video was from... but he also discussed how to plan the memo to purposefully place the UB and UL pieces in reverse location so you can avoid doing the parity alg all together... I fully understood the concept, but it was a bit too advanced for me at this point. But it’s something I’ll definitely keep in mind when I’m comfortable with M2 and ready to improve my skills further



(U' F2 U) M2 (U' F2 U) is what I use. When it comes to M2, there is some stuff you can learn that isn't big cube safe... be careful if part of why you are picking up M2 is 4BLD.





 and the follow up are what I'm using for 4BLD. (Found off this forum.) jperm also did a 4BLD video recently.


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## SpartanSailor (May 11, 2018)

I like that version for the parity too. Easy and smooth. I’m not necessarily learning M2 for big blind... but certainly good to be aware so if/when I do decide to attempt 4BLD and whatnot that I’m not unlearning stuff... 

I watched jperm’s 4BLD video just to see the fundamentals of it. I’m not ready to go there yet. I’m still playing with and enjoying 3BLD. I have a lot of room to continue to learn and push my 3BLD at this point. 

I’m still locked into OP/OP for faster execution. I’ll be using that for my next comp. however, along the way, I can still dial in the algs for the special cases and play with M2 a little...


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## h2f (May 11, 2018)

newtonbase said:


> I use quite a few of your "not recommended" algs.



Yeah, me too when I was using M2.


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## pglewis (May 11, 2018)

I think M2 may also end up being a gateway to comms for me. Once you're comfortable with the basic execution you can pick up swaps that'll solve 2 pieces at a time if S or I are one of the targets and the other is not on the M slice, giving a taste of how awesome it is to solve two pieces at a time.

And yet another parity, the one I use is: (D' L2 D) M2 (D' L2 D)


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## newtonbase (May 11, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> I can’t recall who the video was from... but he also discussed how to plan the memo to purposefully place the UB and UL pieces in reverse location so you can avoid doing the parity alg all together... I fully understood the concept, but it was a bit too advanced for me at this point. But it’s something I’ll definitely keep in mind when I’m comfortable


I use the edge swap in memo. It's easy to learn so you can do it any time.


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## SpartanSailor (May 11, 2018)

pglewis said:


> I think M2 may also end up being a gateway to comms for me. Once you're comfortable with the basic execution you can pick up swaps that'll solve 2 pieces at a time if S or I are one of the targets and the other is not on the M slice, giving a taste of how awesome it is to solve two pieces at a time.
> 
> And yet another parity, the one I use is: (D' L2 D) M2 (D' L2 D)



I found that parity alg last night too. 

I also saw a video with some advanced M2 tricks that solved the S/I and another piece simultaneously. Another pretty cool trick that I’m not quite ready to do, but have also stored that away for future reference when I’m ready to step it up another level.


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## SpartanSailor (May 11, 2018)

newtonbase said:


> I use the edge swap in memo. It's easy to learn so you can do it any time.


Does it work with OP edges too?


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## xyzzy (May 11, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> Does it work with OP edges too?


It works with _any_ method of solving the edges. (I use it with 3-style edges.)


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## SpartanSailor (May 11, 2018)

I’m going to try it the next time I get an odd number of targets during practice. I’m strangely excited about this... lol


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## Mike Hughey (May 11, 2018)

Okay, CubingUSA Great Lakes Championship is just a week away, and as usual I didn't have enough time to practice like I wanted to and I've gotten terribly rusty at most things. I'm going to start trying to get back in shape for ordinary 3x3x3 BLD; let's see how I do. My first 20, done today:
14/20
session mean: 1:53.70
best: 1:21.23

I sure hope I can improve some before then; that was awful.

I'll also try a couple of multis between now and then; I hope I feel confident enough by then to go for another PB. I'd love to try for 15 and have one last long shot at getting ahead of Mark on the oldies list one last time before he puts it out of my reach forever.


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## mark49152 (May 11, 2018)

Mike Hughey said:


> I'd love to try for 15 and have one last long shot at getting ahead of Mark on the oldies list one last time before he puts it out of my reach forever.


I've gone backwards recently and not practised multi at all. Would be good if you get ahead of me and give me a new target to motivate me


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## Mike Hughey (May 11, 2018)

mark49152 said:


> I've gone backwards recently and not practised multi at all. Would be good if you get ahead of me and give me a new target to motivate me


It's just a crazy goal for me to shoot for. I probably have very little chance of making it - I'm sure 15 will be a stretch for me. But it would be fun to at least try. I'll give it a couple of attempts this week leading up to it, just to see how it goes. I'll only try it if it seems at least somewhat possible.


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## openseas (May 11, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> (D’ Rw2 U) M2 (U’ Rw2 D)
> 
> I can’t recall who the video was from... but he also discussed how to plan the memo to purposefully place the UB and UL pieces in reverse location so you can avoid doing the parity alg all together... I fully understood the concept, but it was a bit too advanced for me at this point. But it’s something I’ll definitely keep in mind when I’m comfortable with M2 and ready to improve my skills further



I guess the video is from Josh Weimer. His advanced M2 video is quite good (total of 3 videos).

UB/UL swap is the best way for 3BLD but for multi, it depends how you do it, so better getting used to at least one parity alg. It also works for bid BLDs (just swapping can't take care of the whole parity for big BLDs, not easy).


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## SpartanSailor (May 11, 2018)

Yep. Josh.... that’s the video I watched.


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## newtonbase (May 11, 2018)

openseas said:


> UB/UL swap is the best way for 3BLD but for multi, it depends how you do it, so better getting used to at least one parity alg. It also works for bid BLDs (just swapping can't take care of the whole parity for big BLDs, not easy).


I don't use it in MBLD as I memo edges first but I do in 4BLD and 5BLD (wings and midges get swapped).


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## openseas (May 11, 2018)

newtonbase said:


> I don't use it in MBLD as I memo edges first but I do in 4BLD and 5BLD (wings and midges get swapped).



That means you memo corner first / execute corner last for big cubes as well?


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## mark49152 (May 11, 2018)

openseas said:


> UB/UL swap is the best way for 3BLD


I'm not convinced. If there are N+1 targets without swap, where N is even, you will have either N or N+2 if you swap instead. Intuitively the odds would be 50/50 and I'm sure I've seen that confirmed mathematically somewhere. So the average is still N+1 targets.

If you use vanilla M2, edge parity costs about the same as an edge target, so swapping hasn't bought you much on average. Best case is that your standard deviation goes up and you get a few slightly faster singles as well as a few slower ones, which is arguably worthwhile for an event ranked by single. That assumes it doesn't cost you any extra thinking time to swap.

If you're a faster solver and use full edge comms, you're more likely to see an advantage on average because the cost of parity is close to the cost of a full comm (pair).

IMHO, apart from the chance of slightly faster singles, the biggest advantage of swapping is that you can turn it to your advantage when you spot flipped or solved pieces in the UB or UL positions. Turning a flipped piece into a regular target to avoid a flip alg is worth more than avoiding a parity alg. Example: I have parity and plan to swap UL and UB. When tracing I spot that UB is already in the UL position but flipped. So I change my mind and don't swap, doing the parity alg instead, effectively trading a flip alg for a parity alg.

Also, for 5BLD swapping the UB and UL wings during memo when you have midge parity is a significant saving compared to swapping those wings with an alg.


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## openseas (May 11, 2018)

mark49152 said:


> I'm not convinced. If there are N+1 targets without swap, where N is even, you will have either N or N+2 if you swap instead. Intuitively the odds would be 50/50 and I'm sure I've seen that confirmed mathematically somewhere. So the average is still N+1 targets.
> 
> If you use vanilla M2, edge parity costs about the same as an edge target, so swapping hasn't bought you much on average. Best case is that your standard deviation goes up and you get a few slightly faster singles as well as a few slower ones, which is arguably worthwhile for an event ranked by single. That assumes it doesn't cost you any extra thinking time to swap.
> 
> ...




Interesting analysis.
In general, I'm assuming advanced M2 which means most of targets solved in pair. For people who would do the swap, likely moving to advanced M2 or full 3 style. So, it's better (=faster). 

OP edge or basic M2 (vanilla M2, lol, love it!), Yes, agree to your point.


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## Mike Hughey (May 12, 2018)

Okay, up to my first 50 now; the rust seems to be ever-so-slowly coming off.

34/50
session mean (non-DNF): 1:52.04
best: 1:14.65
best mo3: 1:34.10
best avg5: 1:44.46


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## mark49152 (May 12, 2018)

openseas said:


> Interesting analysis.
> In general, I'm assuming advanced M2 which means most of targets solved in pair. For people who would do the swap, likely moving to advanced M2 or full 3 style. So, it's better (=faster).


Yes, advanced M2 is somewhere in between, although I wouldn't say most targets are solved in pairs. Maybe half, on a good solve, and advanced M2 "comms" are generally not as optimal as full 3-style anyway.

I kind of think of UB/UL swap on 3BLD as similar to colour neutrality on 3x3. It's fairly clear there's some small advantage, but you have to be pretty fast already to reap that benefit, very comfortable with the technique to avoid even minor hesitation that simply wipes out the benefit, and you have to switch as early as possible to get so comfortable with it.

I've been practising with it for a few months now. My tracing is about the same speed either way, but swapping still seems to make me slower while solving, so I don't yet use it in timed sessions. It's in the bucket of things like E and S comms, 3-twists and floating buffers that I use regularly untimed but are not yet ready for use in timed sessions.


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## SpartanSailor (May 12, 2018)

mark49152 said:


> Yes, advanced M2 is somewhere in between, although I wouldn't say most targets are solved in pairs. Maybe half, on a good solve, and advanced M2 "comms" are generally not as optimal as full 3-style anyway.
> 
> I kind of think of UB/UL swap on 3BLD as similar to colour neutrality on 3x3. It's fairly clear there's some small advantage, but you have to be pretty fast already to reap that benefit, very comfortable with the technique to avoid even minor hesitation that simply wipes out the benefit, and you have to switch as early as possible to get so comfortable with it.
> 
> I've been practising with it for a few months now. My tracing is about the same speed either way, but swapping still seems to make me slower while solving, so I don't yet use it in timed sessions. It's in the bucket of things like E and S comms, 3-twists and floating buffers that I use regularly untimed but are not yet ready for use in timed sessions.


The bucket of things not used it timed solves.... I like that.

Right now, using OP edges, if I have a parity, I don’t use the R-perm. I could, but somehow I fumble it and have just kept with the UL-UB-UL three target cycle. So... if I swap them in memo/execution, even if I add a target, I’m still saving two targets which are solved with t-perms. 

I’m a LONG way from trying to milk a couple seconds... I’m still at a point where regular practice can same me minutes. I’m still playing around and seeing what works. 

I did it once earlier today and it didn’t slow my memo down at all. I just placed them in the swapped location mentally and then executed as normal for an even number of targets. I wasn’t timing, so can’t say if there was really an impact. However, I didn’t have any struggle doing the swap on the fly as I traced out my memo. 

I had no idea, when I first started learning blind, how many nuances and differences there could possibly be....


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## adimare (May 12, 2018)

mark49152 said:


> I'm not convinced. If there are N+1 targets without swap, where N is even, you will have either N or N+2 if you swap instead. Intuitively the odds would be 50/50 and I'm sure I've seen that confirmed mathematically somewhere. So the average is still N+1 targets.



True, it's the same mean, but not the same standard deviation. When using a parity alg you'll always have to solve exactly n+1 targets, whereas if you swap UB and UL 50% of the time you'll solve n, 50% of the time you'll solve n+2.

Assuming you're using comms, n targets will require n/2 algs, and n+2 targets will require (n/2)+1 for an average of n/2 + 1/2 algs per solve. With a parity alg, you'll always need n/2 + 2 algs per solve (n/2 for the first n targets, one more for the last target, and one more for parity).

So if you choose the parity alg over swapping, not only are you eliminating the possibility of doing 2 less algs on half your solves, on average you're executing 1.5 more algs!


----------



## mark49152 (May 12, 2018)

adimare said:


> True, it's the same mean, but not the same standard deviation. When using a parity alg you'll always have to solve exactly n+1 targets, whereas if you swap UB and UL 50% of the time you'll solve n, 50% of the time you'll solve n+2.
> 
> Assuming you're using comms, n targets will require n/2 algs, and n+2 targets will require (n/2)+1 for an average of n/2 + 1/2 algs per solve. With a parity alg, you'll always need n/2 + 2 algs per solve (n/2 for the first n targets, one more for the last target, and one more for parity).
> 
> So if you choose the parity alg over swapping, not only are you eliminating the possibility of doing 2 less algs on half your solves, on average you're executing 1.5 more algs!


Yeah agreed; I think we are making the same point, which is that the potential benefit is small until you are using full edge comms. Most people here are M2.


----------



## newtonbase (May 12, 2018)

openseas said:


> That means you memo corner first / execute corner last for big cubes as well?


Yes. I'd do it on MBLD too if I could find a safe way of organising it in my rooms.


----------



## muchacho (May 12, 2018)

3x3 Mo100 PB: 16.982 (was 17.251 from 3 weeks ago)
That's 16.802 Ao100



Spoiler



68704 12-may-2018 11:42:00 00:13.639 R2 U R2 D B2 U2 R2 D' B2 D' B2 L D B' U2 F' R' B2 L U'
68703 12-may-2018 11:41:29 00:13.895 U' R2 U2 L2 D' U2 R2 F2 D' F2 R2 F' D2 U R' U' F2 D2 F D'
68702 12-may-2018 11:40:56 00:14.543 F2 U B2 F2 D' U2 R2 D' B2 U2 F L' D R' U' L' U' F D2 U2
68701 12-may-2018 11:40:23 00:15.039 U2 F2 U2 L2 F2 R2 U' R2 D B2 U2 B' U L' F2 U' R2 F' L F2
68700 12-may-2018 11:39:50 00:17.975 R2 B2 U2 R2 B2 D L2 B2 U L2 B2 R U2 B D2 B' R2 U' R D' U'
68699 12-may-2018 11:39:15 00:16.289 D R2 F2 U' L2 F2 R2 B2 U2 R2 F2 R' U' R U' L' B F2 D' U' F2 U'
68698 12-may-2018 11:38:09 00:15.975 B2 L2 U' L2 F2 U R2 D2 R2 U2 B2 L' U L2 D' B' U2 R2 U' F U'
68697 12-may-2018 11:37:27 00:24.383 B2 R2 U L2 F2 U2 B2 D R2 D' U' R' L U' L2 U' F R2 L U
68696 12-may-2018 11:36:58 00:15.454 R2 D2 U L2 U' R2 B2 R2 D L2 D' L' B2 D' L2 F' L2 F' D R D
68695 12-may-2018 11:36:23 00:15.670 D' F2 R2 F2 D2 U' R2 U B2 F2 R2 B U2 L' B D2 B' L' F2 L
68694 12-may-2018 11:35:46 00:18.183 L2 D L2 D F2 L2 B2 D L2 U' B' D2 F D' R' F' D' R2 U B D'
68693 12-may-2018 11:35:10 00:15.648 B2 L2 U B2 U R2 B2 U B2 L2 D2 B L' F' U2 B2 L2 D L D2
68692 12-may-2018 11:34:39 00:14.768 F2 D U B2 U R2 B2 L2 D2 L2 U R D' R2 B' U2 L U B' L' F D2
68691 12-may-2018 11:34:06 00:17.733 B2 U F2 R2 U' R2 D L2 B2 D' L2 B L B L U' R D' F R B'
68690 12-may-2018 11:33:30 00:16.629 F2 U B2 F2 D F2 D' R2 F2 U' L' D U' L' B2 R' B' R D L' F' U'
68689 12-may-2018 11:33:01 00:15.456 U' B2 U' L2 F2 D2 R2 B2 D L2 U' B' R2 D' B2 L' D' F R' F L D
68688 12-may-2018 11:32:28 00:15.734 D B2 D' L2 U B2 F2 D' L2 U' L' B U R L F2 D' F' U2 F' U2
68687 12-may-2018 11:31:52 00:16.727 B2 R2 D R2 D' B2 U2 L2 B2 L2 F2 L U2 L' B' R' U' F' R L' D U'
68686 12-may-2018 11:31:15 00:18.614 R2 U' R2 B2 U' F2 U B2 U' L2 U2 F' D U B L' B' R D' R' U2
68685 12-may-2018 11:30:36 00:17.374 D2 U R2 L2 B2 U L2 U' R2 D2 U2 L' B U' L' F D' L' D2 L' B' U'
68684 12-may-2018 11:29:56 00:17.638 L2 U B2 U B2 L2 U R2 B2 R2 L2 B' L2 D' B' D R' D' B D' F'
68683 12-may-2018 11:29:21 00:17.015 L2 B2 U L2 B2 D2 F2 U' R2 L2 U L' U2 B2 D F' D R2 U F2 L U2
68682 12-may-2018 11:28:47 00:15.046 D F2 L2 U2 F2 R2 U' R2 D2 L2 F2 R' D' L2 F' U2 R2 L' D' U' B' U'
68681 12-may-2018 11:28:01 00:22.103 U R2 L2 D' B2 R2 D U2 F2 U R2 B' U B L B' L' D B2 U' R'
68680 12-may-2018 11:27:20 00:16.983 U' L2 B2 R2 D B2 D R2 U' F2 U' B' U' L D2 B R2 U2 F2 D' L' U
68679 12-may-2018 11:26:47 00:15.023 U' L2 D' B2 D2 R2 U R2 U L2 U2 F' R D' B' F' L2 U2 L F R' D
68678 12-may-2018 11:26:11 00:18.340 U' R2 B2 U' F2 D U2 L2 U2 F2 U' L F' D2 L2 F' U' R2 F R B U'
68677 12-may-2018 11:25:38 00:12.644 F2 U' L2 D' L2 F2 U' B2 D L2 D' L B' L U L' D' R U F L U
68676 12-may-2018 11:25:01 00:17.095 B2 D' R2 U F2 U F2 U2 F2 L2 U' F' R F2 D B' D' R2 B R L
68675 12-may-2018 11:24:25 00:15.071 F2 R2 D F2 D L2 D' R2 B2 D' F2 L' D L F' U R B2 D2 F2 D2
68674 12-may-2018 11:23:48 00:16.543 F2 D' F2 D B2 D2 R2 D' F2 U B L' D R2 B R' L2 B2 F D U'
68673 12-may-2018 11:23:14 00:16.911 R2 L2 F2 D2 R2 U' B2 L2 D' B2 D F R' D' U2 B' R F D R2 L' U'
68672 12-may-2018 11:22:03 00:14.398 D2 B2 U B2 U2 B2 L2 U B2 L2 U2 B U' L2 D' R2 U R B R B2
68671 12-may-2018 11:21:32 00:15.599 U R2 U2 L2 D F2 L2 U' F2 U B2 R F L2 B D2 F' D R' L D U
68670 12-may-2018 11:20:55 00:17.495 F2 L2 D' U' B2 D R2 U B2 F2 R2 F' R' L B L F' R' D' L2 B U'
68669 12-may-2018 11:20:20 00:19.215 F2 D2 L2 D F2 D' B2 R2 F2 R2 D L D L B D2 L' F R B' L2 U'
68668 12-may-2018 11:19:40 00:18.712 B2 R2 D' B2 R2 B2 D B2 U2 B2 L B' U2 B' U2 L2 F2 D2 B2 U'
68667 12-may-2018 11:19:05 00:14.720 L2 B2 R2 D2 F2 D' F2 L2 D' R2 F2 L' F D2 R F2 R B' D L' D' U'
68666 12-may-2018 11:18:28 00:15.464 R2 U2 R2 U2 L2 U' B2 R2 B2 R2 D2 F L' D' U L F' R2 F' L D2
68665 12-may-2018 11:17:52 00:15.248 F2 D' L2 U' R2 D B2 U R2 B2 U' F D R D U2 L D R2 D' U'
68664 12-may-2018 11:17:18 00:15.910 R2 B2 U2 R2 U R2 L2 B2 D' F2 R2 F L2 U L' D' L F U R D
68663 12-may-2018 11:16:43 00:17.821 B2 F2 R2 D2 F2 U' B2 U2 R2 D B D2 U' R' B' D2 R' F D' U2
68662 12-may-2018 11:16:04 00:16.510 L2 D2 R2 U' L2 D L2 D R2 F2 U2 F' U' R' U2 L2 D2 B' R' B' R'
68661 12-may-2018 11:15:32 00:15.535 L2 U F2 R2 B2 D' R2 U2 L2 F2 U F L2 U F' D2 B2 U2 R' F2 L
68660 12-may-2018 11:14:56 00:19.153 D' L2 B2 D U R2 B2 R2 L2 D L2 F L2 D' R F' L' D' L' U F
68659 12-may-2018 11:14:09 00:22.399 F2 L2 F2 U' B2 R2 U' R2 D U' L D R2 F2 U2 F' L B' R' D2 U'
68658 12-may-2018 11:13:24 00:19.687 D' F2 D' B2 F2 D2 B2 R2 U R2 U' F U' R2 F2 D B2 R' L B' D U'
68657 12-may-2018 11:12:44 00:16.743 D' B2 D' R2 U' L2 U B2 F2 L2 U' L D F' U' B R2 D U2 L' D2
68656 12-may-2018 11:11:56 00:21.638 U R2 B2 U' F2 D2 F2 L2 U2 R2 D2 L' F U' F2 L2 U R L2 B' D U
68655 12-may-2018 11:11:10 00:25.095 R2 F2 D' B2 L2 D F2 U' B2 U R' B D' R U2 L2 D' L2 B' R' D'
68654 12-may-2018 11:10:01 00:13.681 B2 U F2 L2 B2 D2 R2 F2 U L2 U' F' L' F2 D L' U2 F' D R' F U
68653 12-may-2018 11:09:23 00:15.118 B2 R2 U2 L2 D' B2 F2 L2 D F2 R2 B' R U2 R' B F2 U' F' U' L2
68652 12-may-2018 11:08:48 00:14.303 L2 D' U2 R2 U' B2 D F2 L2 F2 D2 B R' U2 F L' B R U' F2 L' U'
68651 12-may-2018 11:08:05 00:23.038 D F2 U F2 U' L2 F2 L2 D R2 U2 F' D B2 D B' D' R U' F2
68650 12-may-2018 11:07:01 00:16.265 F2 D L2 F2 R2 F2 D' F2 U' R2 D' L R2 F D L D2 R2 F U' L' U
68649 12-may-2018 11:06:23 00:14.369 B2 U' F2 D2 R2 U B2 U2 L2 U2 R2 B R' F R' U' F2 U' L D' L' U
68648 12-may-2018 11:05:41 00:17.968 F2 U R2 D R2 B2 U F2 U R2 U2 B D U L F' R' U2 B2 D' F' U'
68647 12-may-2018 11:04:32 00:15.863 R2 F2 D' B2 R2 B2 U2 F2 D' B2 U' R' D R2 B U2 B2 F' D B' D'
68646 12-may-2018 11:03:58 00:15.137 F2 D' U' R2 U' B2 D' B2 F2 U2 B2 R' F2 D R2 B' U2 L B2 F D
68645 12-may-2018 11:03:21 00:14.447 R2 D F2 D2 F2 L2 B2 L2 D F2 U2 R' F D' L2 D2 R F U B' R'
68644 12-may-2018 11:02:45 00:16.366 F2 D' R2 L2 U B2 U B2 R2 D' U F' L F U2 F' R2 U' R F' D
68643 12-may-2018 11:02:07 00:20.501 R2 U R2 D' R2 B2 D' U F2 L2 F2 L B' R D F' L' F' D2 L2 B L'
68642 12-may-2018 11:01:33 00:17.694 R2 L2 U R2 D' L2 D' R2 L2 F2 U R F2 D2 U B R2 D' R' L D' U'
68641 12-may-2018 10:09:45 00:13.984 F2 D R2 U' L2 B2 U F2 U' B2 L R2 F U2 R' U2 R2 U' F2 R' U'
68640 12-may-2018 10:09:10 00:20.806 L2 U L2 D' U' R2 B2 R2 U B D L' U F' R F' L D' B2 U
68639 12-may-2018 10:08:31 00:19.238 D2 F2 U' B2 D' R2 F2 L2 U' R2 L2 B' D R' B' U R' L' D L' B2
68638 12-may-2018 10:07:37 00:16.567 D2 R2 D F2 L2 D L2 B2 U2 F2 U2 B R U2 L' B D2 U' F' U' L' U2
68637 12-may-2018 10:06:57 00:18.255 D2 F2 U F2 R2 U2 R2 D' B2 U' R2 B' R2 U2 F' L' D2 U R2 F' U
68636 12-may-2018 10:06:16 00:19.143 F2 U2 R2 U F2 D' B2 R2 D R2 U L' F' U2 B' L' B2 U' B' D2 F L2
68635 12-may-2018 10:05:40 00:15.231 F2 D' B2 D F2 U2 B2 R2 U2 L' D B2 F' L2 F2 R' B D U'
68634 12-may-2018 10:05:04 00:16.431 R2 U2 B2 F2 D' L2 D L2 U' B2 R2 B' D R2 U2 L' U B D' R' F2 U'
68633 12-may-2018 10:04:25 00:14.776 F2 L2 U B2 U F2 R2 D L2 B2 R2 F B2 R2 L D R' D L' U2 F'
68632 12-may-2018 10:03:46 00:14.038 U' L2 U' B2 R2 L2 U' F2 D F2 U2 R' B' F U' R F' U F' L2 B U
68631 12-may-2018 10:03:11 00:18.982 U' R2 D' B2 F2 D2 F2 D' B2 F2 D' B' L D B F R' F2 L F2
68630 12-may-2018 10:02:18 00:17.959 D2 L2 D' F2 D' R2 L2 U' B2 R2 U2 B' D2 F2 U' F L' F D U2 L2
68629 12-may-2018 10:01:44 00:18.881 D2 B2 D B2 F2 R2 D R2 D L2 D B' L2 B' L' D' F' U2 B2 U2 L2
68628 12-may-2018 10:01:03 00:22.144 F2 R2 B2 F2 U2 R2 L2 D' F2 U2 L F' U F2 L' D2 F L U2 F
68627 12-may-2018 10:00:26 00:19.208 F2 D2 R2 U L2 D R2 L2 B2 D' F' L' D2 F R L B L D' R' D'
68626 12-may-2018 9:59:42 00:15.079 D U2 R2 L2 U' L2 D F2 L2 B2 U R' F' U2 B' D' F2 U' B L B' L
68625 12-may-2018 9:58:30 00:15.790 R2 F2 U B2 D L2 D' F2 U R2 B2 R' D' U2 R B F' D L D2 R
68624 12-may-2018 9:57:54 00:18.726 D' B2 U' L2 D' F2 D2 R2 F2 R2 F2 L' U F2 R U' F' R2 B' F' L2 U2
68623 12-may-2018 9:57:13 00:16.366 R2 U B2 L2 D F2 U B2 U F2 U' F' L' B2 U L' D F2 U' F L2 D2
68622 12-may-2018 9:56:36 00:21.854 F2 R2 D2 B2 F2 D' L2 F2 D L2 F' U R' D R' F' L' U R' U2
68621 12-may-2018 9:56:03 00:16.000 B2 D' F2 D' F2 U2 B2 D' F2 L2 F2 R L B F2 L D' F' L2 D B U2
68620 12-may-2018 9:55:28 00:14.656 U' F2 D' U2 B2 F2 R2 D' B2 U R2 F' L U' B' D2 L2 B2 D2 B' L' D2
68619 12-may-2018 9:54:53 00:14.681 D' F2 L2 B2 U2 F2 D' U2 L2 U' B2 R U' B' R' U' F' R F2 D2 B' R'
68618 12-may-2018 9:54:15 00:17.919 U' L2 F2 D' F2 D B2 U' B2 U2 B2 L' F U2 F2 L2 U2 F' U R' F2 D
68617 12-may-2018 9:53:37 00:17.247 D' R2 U2 B2 R2 B2 U B2 D2 R2 F2 R B' F' D B' U' R D L'
68616 12-may-2018 9:53:02 00:17.319 F2 D' U2 L2 U' F2 U B2 L2 B2 U R' L F' L2 U R B2 D' F D'
68615 12-may-2018 9:52:29 00:14.632 D' L2 U L2 F2 R2 D' B2 D' L2 F' D' B F R2 D L' F2 L'
68614 12-may-2018 9:51:51 00:18.448 L2 B2 D B2 D L2 D2 U R2 D' L2 F R' D2 R2 D R2 L2 D' L2 B
68613 11-may-2018 18:44:03 00:15.823 L2 B2 R2 U' L2 D R2 L2 D2 B D' U2 R B' F U F R2 U'
68612 11-may-2018 18:43:29 00:15.359 R2 D2 L2 U2 B2 D R2 U2 F2 R2 U' R D2 U L' B F D2 L U L U'
68611 11-may-2018 18:42:54 00:15.767 U L2 D' L2 B2 D R2 B2 D' F2 D' R' B' D2 L2 B' R D' L D2 L D
68610 11-may-2018 18:42:18 00:16.991  D2 B2 R2 L2 U2 B2 R2 U R2 B2 U F R' U' L B2 F' R2 L' F2 L2 U'
68609 11-may-2018 18:41:38 00:15.095 R2 D2 F2 D F2 U' F2 L2 B2 F2 R' U' L' D' U B' F D' B L' U'
68608 11-may-2018 17:04:25 00:15.599 R2 B2 D L2 U B2 R2 B2 U2 B2 U2 L' D' F' R L2 F2 U' F' R' L' U'
68607 11-may-2018 17:03:50 00:14.902 R2 F2 R2 U2 F2 D' L2 U R2 U' L B2 U' B U' R2 B2 D2 U2 L'
68606 11-may-2018 17:03:11 00:23.303 D2 R2 U' L2 D' R2 L2 F2 U2 R2 U' L' U' B' D' B R' U2 R2 F R U'
68605 11-may-2018 17:02:32 00:14.816 B2 D2 L2 D R2 B2 D' B2 U' B2 R2 F' R' U2 L B F D' R' F' D2 U


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## SpartanSailor (May 12, 2018)

3BLD to start the day.... 3:51! 1:56/1:54

Now, I just need to get that without a string of 7 DNFs leading into it. LOL


----------



## adimare (May 12, 2018)

mark49152 said:


> Yeah agreed; I think we are making the same point, which is that the potential benefit is small until you are using full edge comms. Most people here are M2.


But even with M2, in the worst case scenario of swapping you'll have to perform n+2 algs, which is the same amount of algs you'll have to perform on every solve if you use the parity alg approach (n+1 targets plus parity), but on 50% of your solves you'll only need n algs.

So with one approach you'll have to perform n+1 algs on average, with the other n+2. While it's true that your std deviation will go up, what you said afterwards doesn't hold up. You're not expected to get some faster times and some slower times compared to what you'd get with the parity alg. ~50% of the times you should get faster times (n targets, n algs vs n+1 targets, n+2 algs), and the rest you should get comparable times to what you'd get using a parity alg (n+2 targets, n+2 algs vs n+1 targets, n+2 algs).


----------



## SpartanSailor (May 12, 2018)

Holy crap! Just doing some 3x3... my PB "was" 16.41 from last month. That was a HUGE improvement over my previous 17.xx.... Then, this happened,

Generated By csTimer on 2018-5-12
single: 15.71
Time List:
1. 15.71 R U D2 R' D' R U2 L U D2 B2 D2 F' R2 F D2 F' U2

15.71 single. I'm honestly very excited.


----------



## pglewis (May 12, 2018)

Mike Hughey said:


> Okay, CubingUSA Great Lakes Championship is just a week away, and as usual I didn't have enough time to practice like I wanted to and I've gotten terribly rusty at most things. I'm going to start trying to get back in shape for ordinary 3x3x3 BLD; let's see how I do. My first 20, done today:
> 14/20
> session mean: 1:53.70
> best: 1:21.23
> ...



I'm bummed to have a conflict come up and it's looking bleak for me to make it next weekend, was really looking forward to meeting you and picking your brain. Good luck getting the rust off in time. 



SpartanSailor said:


> Holy crap! Just doing some 3x3... my PB "was" 16.41 from last month. That was a HUGE improvement over my previous 17.xx.... Then, this happened,
> 
> Generated By csTimer on 2018-5-12
> single: 15.71
> ...



You're threatening my 3bld PB and now you've ducked my 3x3 single! Good couple of days.


----------



## SpartanSailor (May 12, 2018)

pglewis said:


> I'm bummed to have a conflict come up and it's looking bleak for me to make it next weekend, was really looking forward to meeting you and picking your brain. Good luck getting the rust off in time.
> 
> 
> 
> You're threatening my 3bld PB and now you've ducked my 3x3 single! Good couple of days.


LOL... Yeah... It's been a good couple days. I updated the old-guys spreadsheet and noticed that I got in just under your posted PB single 

It comes in fits and spurts. But, when I hit a lucky streak like right now I just know that is in the realm of the possible for me.


----------



## mark49152 (May 12, 2018)

adimare said:


> But even with M2, in the worst case scenario of swapping you'll have to perform n+2 algs, which is the same amount of algs you'll have to perform on every solve if you use the parity alg approach (n+1 targets plus parity), but on 50% of your solves you'll only need n algs.


Yes you're right. Maybe I should put in more effort on it.


----------



## Mike Hughey (May 13, 2018)

After my first try with 15, I'm thinking maybe it might be a bit too much:

8/15, 60:00:00 [42:23] (done for the weekly competition)
Working on last cube when time ran out.
Off by:
3 edges
2 edges
4 corners
11 edges
2 edges
5 edges
6 edges

Can you tell I have trouble remembering edges? 

I was planning another whole review at the end but realized I was out of time and had to skip it. That slowed me down a bit in execution since I had a few significant recall pauses.

The first few cubes were really hard to memorize, but the 8 or so in the middle were actually rather easy. So I'm not sure how typical this was for me.


----------



## Sergey (May 14, 2018)

Guys, how long it was took to you to reach the sub-20 on 3x3?


----------



## SpartanSailor (May 14, 2018)

I’m still not sub-20.... I started learning with my son around March 2016.


----------



## Sergey (May 14, 2018)

After about 3 months of practicing I'm still not have stable sub-30: pb 20.274 (pll skip), best ao5 26.161, ao12 27.443 and ao100 32.444. Few hours a day practicing. Started at Fabruary from pb 52.041, ao5 1:05.657, ao12 1:13.738


----------



## One Wheel (May 14, 2018)

Sergey said:


> Guys, how long it was took to you to reach the sub-20 on 3x3?


3 years down, 9 seconds to go.


----------



## newtonbase (May 14, 2018)

5/10 MBLD in 56ish..I was very comfortable on time so was expecting a better result. 

One scramble had 2 solved corners and 4 twisted. There was only 1 proper target.


----------



## SpartanSailor (May 14, 2018)

I’d be thrilled with 2 solved and 4 twisted corners! Lol


----------



## Jason Green (May 14, 2018)

Sergey said:


> After about 3 months of practicing I'm still not have stable sub-30: pb 20.274 (pll skip), best ao5 26.161, ao12 27.443 and ao100 32.444. Few hours a day practicing. Started at Fabruary from pb 52.041, ao5 1:05.657, ao12 1:13.738


I think that's a pretty good pace! I don't remember my exact progression but it took me about 1 year to get sub 20 (I think a little over a year to be consistent). It was around 6 months before I had my first sub 20 single, so sounds like you're progressing faster than I did on that.


----------



## mark49152 (May 14, 2018)

Sergey said:


> Guys, how long it was took to you to reach the sub-20 on 3x3?


If you mean global average, it took me about a year to get sub-30 and another year to get sub-20. If I'd had more practice time, who knows.


----------



## pglewis (May 14, 2018)

Sergey said:


> Guys, how long it was took to you to reach the sub-20 on 3x3?



37-ish years since my first solve and still counting


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## h2f (May 14, 2018)

Sergey said:


> Guys, how long it was took to you to reach the sub-20 on 3x3?



Around 2 years to get first ao100 sub20. And 2 years and 10 months of competing to get 19.96 ao5 (october 2016).


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## Sergey (May 14, 2018)

Jason Green said:


> I think that's a pretty good pace! I don't remember my exact progression but it took me about 1 year to get sub 20 (I think a little over a year to be consistent). It was around 6 months before I had my first sub 20 single, so sounds like you're progressing faster than I did on that.


Thanks! But to be completely honest - 3 months ago is not the first time when I met the cube. First was over 30 year ago, in 80s. It was very surprising that after more than 30 years I remembered basic principles of layer by layer solving and 2 or 3 algs for last layer - I think this is what is called "beginners method" now. Of course it was simple solving not speedsolving. So it is like 15 sec inspection and 5 sec solving .


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## pglewis (May 14, 2018)

Sergey said:


> Thanks! But to be completely honest - 3 months ago is not the first time when I met the cube. First was over 30 year ago, in 80s. It was very surprising that after more than 30 years I remembered basic principles of layer by layer solving and 2 or 3 algs for last layer - I think this is what is called "beginners method" now. Of course it was simple solving not speedsolving. So it is like 15 sec inspection and 5 sec solving .



Very similar story, I think I was experimenting with F2L before I gave it up because while learning F2L the second go-round I was having very strong deja vu. 

I've been working on speedsolving a little over 2 years and still really only mid 20s at best in a longer average. I'm not really "a natural" but I'm stubborn.


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## newtonbase (May 14, 2018)

I've been solving for over 4 years and have 1 sub 20 but I don't practice sighted.


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## Jason Green (May 14, 2018)

Sergey said:


> Thanks! But to be completely honest - 3 months ago is not the first time when I met the cube. First was over 30 year ago, in 80s. It was very surprising that after more than 30 years I remembered basic principles of layer by layer solving and 2 or 3 algs for last layer - I think this is what is called "beginners method" now. Of course it was simple solving not speedsolving. So it is like 15 sec inspection and 5 sec solving .


Oh yeah that's just 1 year after I got into speed cubing. That was not my first time to solve a cube either. About 7 or 8 years earlier I had learned Petrus from his website just because I wanted to solve a cube. I never really timed myself, and would go so long without picking one up I would forget parts of it. I did not even know notation at that point, I just learned by watching his animations to memorize the algs.


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## SpartanSailor (May 14, 2018)

I confirmed for my upcoming comp that that they are using a 10 min cumulative time for 3BLD. Good think my practice times have dropped. Just too bad my accuracy has dropped with them.

I guess I’ll have to dial it in a litttle toghter in the next 10 days... with any luck, I can get a nice 4min range success in my first two attempts.


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## phreaker (May 15, 2018)

20s? I don't see one coming soon. Been cubing 2-3 years now. (I mainly cube OH, so 20s is actually quite quick.)


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## phreaker (May 15, 2018)

Sad day: I broke my main Gan SM.

I took it apart to clean it, and tighten it up to deal with my nails going between the pieces. The tightening, turns out to have destroyed the edges. I don't think I'll ever be able to tighten the cube correctly without major hacking. That said, I am considering that hacking, if I can get the 1xSM Magnet I lost doing the work. Let's just say it wasn't my day.

Happier day: I made a Gan SUM.

I took the core from my Gan SM dead, and put it in my UM. I always thought the UM lacked "travel", in the springs, and it made the cube feel harsher than needed, did 2/3rds of a lube job on it. (I'm not sold I'm done yet...) Angstrom Gravatas + Dignatas + DNM-37. I need to lube the core, but I haven't decided on final springs yet.

The Gan SUM is an interesting cube. It is a bit "looser" like a SM, but not as loose as an SM, it keeps some of the stiffness from the UM, and noisiness. (The cube can clack quite loudly.)

We'll see how I like this Gan SUM compared to my other SM, as I clean that cube out and prepare it for more use...

*sigh*


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## mafergut (May 15, 2018)

Hi all! Another week or two since I last visited. Hi @Jason Green I hadn't seen you post in a long time. I hope everything is going well. Do your kids cube already?

Not sure if I told you that I finally registered for Euros in Madrid, but only for 3x3. Anyway my left thumb injury is not getting any better so I'm afraid I will not be able to compete, or if I compete I will be very, very slow, like in not even sub-30 (it hurts to just grip the cube). At least I'll go watch and meet some people.

@muchacho, I just finished today editing my short video about Roux. I will publish it in my channel this week. Finally I decided to feature your PB single solve in it  Maybe next episode is ZZ. Any ZZ solvers out there that can help?


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## phreaker (May 15, 2018)

mafergut said:


> Hi all! Another week or two since I last visited. Hi @Jason Green I hadn't seen you post in a long time. I hope everything is going well. Do your kids cube already?
> 
> Not sure if I told you that I finally registered for Euros in Madrid, but only for 3x3. Anyway my left thumb injury is not getting any better so I'm afraid I will not be able to compete, or if I compete I will be very, very slow, like in not even sub-30 (it hurts to just grip the cube). At least I'll go watch and meet some people.
> 
> @muchacho, I just finished today editing my short video about Roux. I will publish it in my channel this week. Finally I decided to feature your PB single solve in it  Maybe next episode is ZZ. Any ZZ solvers out there that can help?



What form of help do you need with ZZ. I use it on 3x3, especially OH.


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## Jason Green (May 15, 2018)

mafergut said:


> Hi all! Another week or two since I last visited. Hi @Jason Green I hadn't seen you post in a long time. I hope everything is going well. Do your kids cube already?
> 
> Not sure if I told you that I finally registered for Euros in Madrid, but only for 3x3. Anyway my left thumb injury is not getting any better so I'm afraid I will not be able to compete, or if I compete I will be very, very slow, like in not even sub-30 (it hurts to just grip the cube). At least I'll go watch and meet some people.
> 
> @muchacho, I just finished today editing my short video about Roux. I will publish it in my channel this week. Finally I decided to feature your PB single solve in it  Maybe next episode is ZZ. Any ZZ solvers out there that can help?


Yeah I don't post that much lately, but I still keep up with reading the thread. Boys have not picked it up yet, maybe soon! Thanks for saying hi.


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## bubbagrub (May 15, 2018)

https://www.reddit.com/r/Cubers/comments/8jmhhb/how_i_sometimes_feel_as_an_adult_cuber/

No comment...


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## SpartanSailor (May 16, 2018)

3BLD practice tonite... for a few moments. 4 attempts: 4:16(DNF), 4:56, 4:02, 4:30(DNF). 50% on the day. and both the DNFs were only off by a forgotten twisted edge.

Edit:
Did 3 more attempts. 4:02, 4:21 and 4:37... the 4:02 was the success (and was the last of the three attempts) and the others were racking up my daily DNF count. However, both were (again) off by a twisted corner or flipped edge. 

That tells me that I’m pushing my memo just about right. I’m missing some stuff, but can slow down a bit and get it. And even sometimes get it anyway without slowing down. 

There’s a chance I could get a sub-5 at my upcoming comp. If it’s an easy memo... well, I’ll try not to psych myself out.


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## newtonbase (May 16, 2018)

6/10 MBLD 58:26 (41:59). Best result on 10. I've improved my review strategy but still need to work on memo accuracy (and executing parity!).


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## h2f (May 16, 2018)

It looks like my Project588 (588 solves till Polish Nationals) pays off. After 30 days of practing and making over 80 5bld solves my times started to drop. I've made a break for 2 days and today my memo is around 8 minutes and my execution is down to sub 6 minutes. I've started to feel comfortable with memo process and comms for centers. And todays PB is 14:44.65 with 8:44 memo.


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## mark49152 (May 16, 2018)

@h2f, good progress. Why 588?


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## h2f (May 16, 2018)

mark49152 said:


> @h2f, good progress. Why 588?



Thanks! Still I waste a lot of time losing tracking on centers. I think memo could be 2-3 shorter because of it.

When I've started it was 196 days till Polish Nationals. 196 x 3 = 588. And 5 is like 5bld - thats why the name is Project 588. I dont give any public info about it only here I've mentioned that I'm preparing to Nationals.


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## Mike Hughey (May 16, 2018)

@h2f - awesome plan, and great progress! Good luck with it!

I'm afraid I'm just not getting the time to practice that I wanted. But I finally did another 50 3BLDs for practice, and my times are starting to get a little better - especially with the last few:

35/50
session mean: 1:48.77
best mean of 3: 1:24.89
best avg of 5: 1:27.86 (this was the most recent 5)
best avg of 12: 1:56.79
best single: 1:15.04
best near-miss: DNF [1:00.75, off by 2 corners]

Hopefully I can at least get one more set of 50 done before the competition.

No time for multi practice before the competition, I'm afraid, so I think I'll have to give up on my hope of trying to top Mark - I can't handle 15 yet - I'll have to go for a more conservative number. :-( Maybe at my next competition, if Mark doesn't put it out of reach by then.


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## MarcelP (May 17, 2018)

Sergey said:


> Guys, how long it was took to you to reach the sub-20 on 3x3?


I think it took me almost a year to become sub 30 on white cross. Then I switched to color neutral and it took me 3 months to become sub 30 again (but then CN). Then in a year or so I was sub 20 color neutral. I think in 3 more years I got down to sub 19. With some 18.xx Ao100's. But then I stopped speedsolving practice. Now I only cube recreational


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## h2f (May 17, 2018)

It's nice to see you, @MarcelP.


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## moralsh (May 17, 2018)

in competition a bit more than 2 years for first single, another year for fist average and some months to constantly be there
at home, way less for singles/ao5/ao12 and about the same for Ao100s

But it can be done way, way faster if you just focus on the event, there are several examples around regulars here.


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## Logiqx (May 17, 2018)

It took me about 9 months to get to sub-30 globally and another 18 months to get to sub-20. Like others mentioned it would most likely have been quicker with regular practice and more focus on getting faster.

I'm currently focusing on 3x3, OH and Pyra with a view of doing the Sunday at Hastings in 3-4 weeks time. My 3x3 times have slipped (just about sub-16 globally) and my OH times have gotten quite eratic (just about sub-26 globally) but I did fluke a PB Ao5 of 21.17 OH earlier today. I'm enjoying Pyra right and starting to break through the 7-second barrier - 6.78 Ao100 last weekend. It's almost becoming my main event, lol.


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## moralsh (May 17, 2018)

I should take care of pyra one of these years, last weekend I got an official PB average and I didn't even made it to the second round. that's sad (and funny)


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## Jason Green (May 17, 2018)

moralsh said:


> I should take care of pyra one of these years, last weekend I got an official PB average and I didn't even made it to the second round. that's sad (and funny)


I could break my pyra pb for a long time and not get to round two.  Sub 7 sounds pretty impressive to me @Logiqx!


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## One Wheel (May 17, 2018)

moralsh said:


> I should take care of pyra one of these years, last weekend I got an official PB average and I didn't even made it to the second round. that's sad (and funny)


I plan to compete in pyra for the first time next week. I think if I keep up my current practice schedule I have an excellent shot at making not only the 2:00 time limit but even the 0:45 cutoff.


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## adimare (May 17, 2018)

Got my 3BLD PB (51.28) on camera a few min ago:






Not representative at all of what my bld solves look like, it takes me around twice this amount of time to get consistent successes, but I'm pretty proud that I was able to do a sub 1 solve even if it took an insane amount of tries.


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## SpartanSailor (May 17, 2018)

I've had a nice long run of DNFs with 3BLD the past couple days. Had a nice streak going the couple days prior to that.

Comp next weekend. I think I can definitely make a HUGE improvement and get a relatively "safe" (for me) solve with an official success and STILL have enough time remaining within the 10 min cumulative to make a decent second effort. That may be my plan of attack. Get a mid-5 min "safe" solve with more review and less pressure. Then, for my second attempt, let it all go. Push the memo, less review and just let it rip! No matter what I do, I won't have enough time to make 3 legit attempts, so...


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## SpartanSailor (May 18, 2018)

I only know 2 algs for pyra.... I'm definitely not going to learn any more than that. I'm okay just doing it on comp days. Most places here have a 1:00 cutoff. I can make that... But if they imposed a soft-cutoff I'd be in trouble.


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## Logiqx (May 18, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> I only know 2 algs for pyra.... I'm definitely not going to learn any more than that. I'm okay just doing it on comp days. Most places here have a 1:00 cutoff. I can make that... But if they imposed a soft-cutoff I'd be in trouble.



Man... you're breaking my heart! There are only 5 LL "algs" and they are all combos of the triggers R U R' / R U' R' / R' L R L'.

If you play around with the basic triggers and their mirrors you'll find all 5 of the Pyra LL "algs" for yourself.

The thing that I'm enjoying about Pyra is the planning aspect. I'm finding it quite therapeutic outside of a comp environment.


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## SpartanSailor (May 18, 2018)

Logiqx said:


> Man... you're breaking my heart! There are only 5 LL "algs" and they are all combos of the triggers R U R' / R U' R' / R' L R L'.
> 
> If you play around with the basic triggers and their mirrors you'll find all 5 of the Pyra LL "algs" for yourself.
> 
> The thing that I'm enjoying about Pyra is the planning aspect. I'm finding it quite therapeutic outside of a comp environment.


I guess I actually know more... because I know those triggers and just use them to solve it. If I really think about I know more, but I’m Super Slow at recognition and execution. I’m okay with that too.

I don’t really like my pyra either. It doesn’t feel very good—too loose and unstable making it less enjoyable.


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## h2f (May 18, 2018)

Logiqx said:


> The thing that I'm enjoying about Pyra is the planning aspect. I'm finding it quite therapeutic outside of a comp environment.


I've never thought about it this way though what I like in big blindes in home is a some kind of relax when I do it.

I got 14:26.16 [7:49] with 50 seconds memo lockup during execution. What I've learnt some time ago is that if I got memo lockup during execution I do next group of targets. In this case it was during wings - and it was after centes - so I did midges. When I finished them suddenly memo was back and I could finish the solve.


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## newtonbase (May 18, 2018)

First sub 10 4BLD success 9:56 (5:14). It's my first success at all for 6 weeks though I've not been doing many solves. MBLD practice has helped.


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## mark49152 (May 18, 2018)

newtonbase said:


> First sub 10 4BLD success 9:56 (5:14). It's my first success at all for 6 weeks though I've not been doing many solves. MBLD practice has helped.


Great progress, well done Mark!


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## newtonbase (May 18, 2018)

mark49152 said:


> Great progress, well done Mark!


Thanks. It's a fun event which I'll probably practice a lot more if I don't qualify for MBLD at the UKs.


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## CLL Smooth (May 18, 2018)

Logiqx said:


> Man... you're breaking my heart! There are only 5 LL "algs" and they are all combos of the triggers R U R' / R U' R' / R' L R L'.
> 
> If you play around with the basic triggers and their mirrors you'll find all 5 of the Pyra LL "algs" for yourself.
> 
> The thing that I'm enjoying about Pyra is the planning aspect. I'm finding it quite therapeutic outside of a comp environment.


I enjoy pyraminx quite a bit myself but hardly ever practice. The way I see it there’s 9 LL cases, but I guess that counts mirrors. I remember Felix Lee had a video about tracking the keyhole edge through the “V”, essentially making every solve 2-look. Have you learned any Oka or 1-flip? I always figured I would but never have.


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## Logiqx (May 19, 2018)

CLL Smooth said:


> I enjoy pyraminx quite a bit myself but hardly ever practice. The way I see it there’s 9 LL cases, but I guess that counts mirrors. I remember Felix Lee had a video about tracking the keyhole edge through the “V”, essentially making every solve 2-look. Have you learned any Oka or 1-flip? I always figured I would but never have.



I don't know any of the top first methods; keyhole, oka, 1-flip, etc. I solve it v-first to finish with a subset of L4E, effectively forcing LL skips as I finish the first layer. I'll often use a flipped edge between first layer centres if it gives me an easy pseudo-v during inspection.


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## CLL Smooth (May 19, 2018)

Logiqx said:


> I don't know any of the top first methods; keyhole, oka, 1-flip, etc. I solve it v-first to finish with a subset of L4E, effectively forcing LL skips as I finish the first layer. I'll often use a flipped edge between first layer centres if it gives me an easy pseudo-v during inspection.


I think I do what you do but I’m a bit confused now cause I thought it was called keyhole. I solve the V first then the back edge leaving the last three edges on the front face.


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## Logiqx (May 19, 2018)

CLL Smooth said:


> I think I do what you do but I’m a bit confused now cause I thought it was called keyhole. I solve the V first then the back edge leaving the last three edges on the front face.



There are two main types of Pyraminx method:

- top first where keyhole is the beginner / intermediate method
- v-first where layer-by-layer is the beginner / intermediate method and L4E is the most advanced

You'e doing keyhole whereas I do partial L4E... easily recognisable cases.

http://pyraminxl4e.strikingly.com


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## pglewis (May 19, 2018)

I don't know what method I use but I know my Pyraminx solves take forever and look like I'm trying to restrain an unruly bat.


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## One Wheel (May 19, 2018)

pglewis said:


> I don't know what method I use but I know my Pyraminx solves take forever and look like I'm trying to restrain an unruly bat.



That's about where I'm at. I intuitively solve 1 layer, then use sune/anti-sune to place the remaining 3 edges, then flip the last 2 edges, if necessary. Gets me to about 25s if I don't mess up, 15s if I'm lucky. Good enough for me.


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## pglewis (May 19, 2018)

Been a bit busy without as much practice time, definitely need to drill some of my OLLs but mainly the low frequency ones as usual. Still seeing slow improvement and landed my best full step today at 17.03. Close but no cigar trying to take 3x3 single back from @SpartanSailor . 

3bld went a while with only a few solves a day and a low to zero success rate. Now I've hit a spell where I'm probably around 2/3 the past few days. Such a streaky hobby.


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## SpartanSailor (May 19, 2018)

One Wheel said:


> That's about where I'm at. I intuitively solve 1 layer, then use sune/anti-sune to place the remaining 3 edges, then flip the last 2 edges, if necessary. Gets me to about 25s if I don't mess up, 15s if I'm lucky. Good enough for me.


I think that’s about my method and time too.


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## SpartanSailor (May 19, 2018)

pglewis said:


> Been a bit busy without as much practice time, definitely need to drill some of my OLLs but mainly the low frequency ones as usual. Still seeing slow improvement and landed my best full step today at 17.03. Close but no cigar trying to take 3x3 single back from @SpartanSailor .
> 
> 3bld went a while with only a few solves a day and a low to zero success rate. Now I've hit a spell where I'm probably around 2/3 the past few days. Such a streaky hobby.


I’ve seen a few 17s and 18s recently. My son asked me yesterday, “when are you going to do that in a comp.”


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## pglewis (May 19, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> I’ve seen a few 17s and 18s recently. My son asked me yesterday, “when are you going to do that in a comp.”



I definitely know the feeling . Despite having an off day at Dixon I at least salvaged one victory with a low :22 single, which is on the faster side for me. One of these days I'll string a few good ones together at comp.


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## SpartanSailor (May 19, 2018)

pglewis said:


> I definitely know the feeling . Despite having an off day at Dixon I at least salvaged one victory with a low :22 single, which is on the faster side for me. One of these days I'll string a few good ones together at comp.


Exactly


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## Logiqx (May 20, 2018)

pglewis said:


> I don't know what method I use but I know my Pyraminx solves take forever and look like I'm trying to restrain an unruly bat.



Almost certainly layer-by-layer which got me to around 7 globally with the 5 LL algs.


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## Mike Hughey (May 21, 2018)

I had a great time at the Great Lakes Championship. Nathan Dwyer (and the rest of the staff, including all the great delegates we had there) ran a fantastic competition! I'm very sorry I wasn't able to meet Phil there - Phil, I hope I see you at another competition sometime soon!

Donna Krueger (another oldie like us) made some good over-40 attempts - a 4/7 multi that was really 5/7, but she accidentally left a logo on one of her cubes and so had it disqualified. :-( She got 2 successes in 4BLD, and came in 8th at 3BLD! Her son was quite obviously very proud of her; he was hoping she would get 7/7 since that would have been state record.

As for me, my BLD efforts weren't great, but I guess they weren't terrible, actually. 5BLD was a disaster for me, but it also was for everyone else - no one got a successful solve at the competition. :-( I had one off by 3 pieces, one off by 5 pieces, and the third looked like I did a D' instead of a U' somewhere by accident, so it came out looking awful. My first 4BLD wasn't bad at all - only 4 seconds off my PB in competition. 3BLD was pretty bad; I wish I could have gone to the finals, but I had to leave the competition early (my daughter had a wonderful dance recital this afternoon that I was attending instead).

My multi result was not so impressive, but it really wasn't too bad, all things told. I did a 13-cube attempt in 55 minutes, and the memo was quite solid, except that I discovered I had forgotten a few sets of flipped edges. I remembered what they were but couldn't remember what locations they were in. :-( Should be easy to fix that in the future. That means it was a truly credible 13-cube attempt in 55 minutes, which means 14 should be quite doable. If I can get my 3BLD speed back to sub-minute like it was 5 years ago, I should be able to do 15 and maybe even 16 easily. So it's really just down to finding time to practice 3BLD for me to get to 16 cubes.

I had a pretty decent mean in FMC, 33 2/3. A good bit off my PB, but my PB was when I was practicing really hard for it (back then, I studied a lot of Heise and it really helped), and I also got really lucky on those solves. This time I had no lucky solves - I worked for it and got some decent results despite lack of practice, so it really felt good - it felt like I really earned it.

Speedsolving was fun for me at this competition. My first chance to use all my new hardware, and it was very helpful. I got 6 PBs - 3x3x3 average (my second sub-20 in competition - my first was 5 years ago!), 4x4x4 single, 7x7x7 single and average (I got 2 sub-6's in competition, and sub-6 was required to do an average - and I had only had one sub-6 ever in practice at home!), and skewb single and average (my new skewb results make me the fastest over-50 competitor on Logiqx's list!).

I did regress from freeslice to AvG for the competition. I tried it out a few days before the competition and discovered that AvG gave me a much better chance of making the cutoff, so I couldn't resist switching back. But practicing freeslice seems to make be better at both methods, so I intend to go back to practicing freeslice now. I'll just keep doing that (switching back to AvG right before competitions) until it stops helping.


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## h2f (May 21, 2018)

Congrats Mike, @Mike Hughey! I think you didnt mention you were 3rd in 4bld.

Practice pays off though the scramble was easy:


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## moralsh (May 21, 2018)

Good job @Mike Hughey you Still can PB at 3x3 and that 4BLD is nice 

also Good job @h2f a bit more practice and you can stackmat it! 

I need to practice big blinds


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## mark49152 (May 21, 2018)

Thanks @Mike Hughey for the update, I enjoyed reading that. Some nice results, and keep working on the MBLD!

Is Donna on here?


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## Mike Hughey (May 21, 2018)

h2f said:


> Congrats Mike, @Mike Hughey! I think you didnt mention you were 3rd in 4bld.



That's true - I forgot to mention that. And this was a pretty respectable 3rd place at that, considering that 1st place was in fact the new world record (awesome achievement by Stanley Chapel!), and 2nd place was the current multiBLD WR holder. 

@mark49152 : I'm not sure if Donna is on here or not. I hope she responds.


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## Logiqx (May 21, 2018)

@Mike Hughey - Do you think Donna would mind if she's added to our oldie rankings?

https://www.worldcubeassociation.org/persons/2016KRUE03


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## Mike Hughey (May 21, 2018)

Logiqx said:


> @Mike Hughey - Do you think Donna would mind if she's added to our oldie rankings?
> 
> https://www.worldcubeassociation.org/persons/2016KRUE03


While I suspect she wouldn't mind, I honestly don't know for sure - I regret not asking her while I was there. I also have no idea exactly how old she actually is; I just know she's old enough to have had a teenage son competing.


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## newtonbase (May 21, 2018)

Got 6/10 again. Managed to transpose images between 2 cubes so got 2 DNFs with one error though I went over time on one of them anyway.


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## SpartanSailor (May 22, 2018)

Have a massive headache this evening, but managed a couple 3BLD attempts. Got a 4:07 DNF followed by a 4:12 success. The DNF was just one twisted corner—I twisted it the wrong way leaving it unsolved. Feeling reasonably good about this weekend.


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## pglewis (May 22, 2018)

Mike Hughey said:


> I'm very sorry I wasn't able to meet Phil there - Phil, I hope I see you at another competition sometime soon!



Yeah, I held out hope as long as I could that I might be able to shuffle the schedule around to make it there, but no dice . Congrats on a good outing and podium for 4bld!


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## pglewis (May 22, 2018)

Nudged both my Ao5 and Ao12 a little lower in a short session today. I've nearly convinced myself that 23s are the new slow.


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## openseas (May 22, 2018)

Logiqx said:


> @Mike Hughey - Do you think Donna would mind if she's added to our oldie rankings?
> 
> https://www.worldcubeassociation.org/persons/2016KRUE03



@Mike Hughey Congrats on your 4BLD podium and nice summary!
@Logiqx I met Donna last year in DC. I introduced this forum to her but not sure whether she forgot or not. She seems to be a little bit cautious on public exposure.

BTW, last year, she and her son made the first mother & son podium in WCA history, I believe.


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## asacuber (May 22, 2018)

@Selkie just got appointed leader of WFC committee! 
Congrats and all the best!


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## SpartanSailor (May 22, 2018)

pglewis said:


> Nudged both my Ao5 and Ao12 a little lower in a short session today. I've nearly convinced myself that 23s are the new slow.
> 
> View attachment 9138


And that 31 must have been full of mistakes and errors... i especially hate when that happens following a nice sub 20. Nicely done!


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## Selkie (May 22, 2018)

asacuber said:


> @Selkie just got appointed leader of WFC committee!
> Congrats and all the best!



Thank you! Delighted to be been appointed as the new leader of the financial committee and Treasurer of the WCA. Looking forward to the role at this exciting time.

Apologies I have not been as active of late in the thread my fellow mature brethren. Life and work has been very busy but still practicing frequently and seeing some good improvement in bigger cubes. Had my first sub 1:40 5x5 average last week.

I will try and be a bit more active and not to slack quite as much


----------



## SpartanSailor (May 22, 2018)

Sitting at the train station and just did my second ever sub-20 Ao5 with 19.26. 

19.51, (16.34), 17.87, 20.43, (21.67)

I was legit shocked with that 16 too.


----------



## JohnnyReggae (May 22, 2018)

This past weekend I attended my largest competition yet, the Arnold Classic Africa 2018 in Johannesburg South Africa. I was also delegating along with 2 other delegates, 1 of them being the Senior Delegate for Africa.

3 full days of competition with all the WCA events with the exception of 5BLD. I participated in 10 events and managed some sort of PB either average or single on all events except for Pyraminx. There were 110 competitors in total, with 100 doing 3x3 alone. I managed a respectable 12th overall in 3x3, which is not to bad for an oldie although I was disappointed with my times I did get an average comp PB for 3x3.

I was happy at the end of the day with my performances in the events except for OH. I was bitterly disappointed with my times, and even more disappointed when the other delegates decided to scrap the 2nd/final round of OH because we were running quite over the schedule. I wanted a chance to redeem my bad times ... next time I suppose 

The competition itself was quite exciting especially with all the other sports and events taking place over the weekend. These included Body Building, Power Lifting, Weight Lifting, Boxing, Karate, Archery, Bikini contests, Chess, e-Sports, and many more. We were wedged between Weight Lifting and Table Tennis. The constant weight dropping from the Weight Lifting was distracting at times depending on the size of the weight being dropped from overhead. Side note .... I'm amazed at how strong some people are.

We had a constant stream of spectators through our area with many competitors from the other sports stopping in to watch. The Arnold Classic organisers also stopped in quite frequently taking photos and videos and they seemed quite impressed with out setup and organistation so we're hoping that we get invited back to next year's Arnold Classic.

We also had a number of Continental and National records broken. Continental records for 3x3 Feet single and average, FMC single and average, and 4x4 single. National records for 3x3 average, 4x4 average, and Pyramix average. In fact the NR 4x4 record was broken in 2 consecutive rounds by 2 different competitors.

Overall is was a great competition and I look forward to the event next year (holding thumbs) ....


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## pglewis (May 22, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> And that 31 must have been full of mistakes and errors... i especially hate when that happens following a nice sub 20. Nicely done!



I solved a pair into the wrong slot locking my brain up and killing my lookahead lol. 



SpartanSailor said:


> Sitting at the train station and just did my second ever sub-20 Ao5 with 19.26.
> 
> 19.51, (16.34), 17.87, 20.43, (21.67)
> 
> I was legit shocked with that 16 too.



Counting 17! You're way overdue for a shocker of a single. With that many full step sub 20s showing up (they couldn't all be lucky solves) you're due for something in the 12-13 neighborhood with a perfect storm.


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## SpartanSailor (May 22, 2018)

pglewis said:


> I solved a pair into the wrong slot locking my brain up and killing my lookahead lol.
> 
> 
> 
> Counting 17! You're way overdue for a shocker of a single. With that many full step sub 20s showing up (they couldn't all be lucky solves) you're due for something in the 12-13 neighborhood with a perfect storm.


I’ve done the pair in the wrong slot more times than I’d like to admit....

Yeah, a nice string of sub-20s I was feeling good. I was definitely in the zone and things were going smooth. 

I have a comp on Saturday, so we will see if I can pull off a sub-20 single when the pressure is on. But my primary focus is a decent 3BLD attempt. There’s a 10min cumulative limit so I won’t get but 2 attempts... I’m hopig to make the most of those two attempts!


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## pglewis (May 22, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> I have a comp on Saturday, so we will see if I can pull off a sub-20 single when the pressure is on. But my primary focus is a decent 3BLD attempt. There’s a 10min cumulative limit so I won’t get but 2 attempts... I’m hopig to make the most of those two attempts!



Good luck! You have the same 3bld strategy I had last time out. I felt reasonably comfortable in the 5-6 min range and hoped to get a safe one in that ballpark for my first solve and then throw caution to the wind on the second attempt, since I'm still a bit too slow for three attempts. I just couldn't get anything to stick in memory on comp day among being a little travel tired, comp nerves, and just one of those off days on top.


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## SpartanSailor (May 22, 2018)

pglewis said:


> Good luck! You have the same 3bld strategy I had last time out. I felt reasonably comfortable in the 5-6 min range and hoped to get a safe one in that ballpark for my first solve and then throw caution to the wind on the second attempt, since I'm still a bit too slow for three attempts. I just couldn't get anything to stick in memory on comp day among being a little travel tired, comp nerves, and just one of those off days on top.


Yep. That’s my strategy. If I get a good scramble/easy memo and a smidgen of luck, I could surprise myself. But I’m plannig to be “relatively” safe for my first one. Although, if it’s an easy memo... I’ll let it rip and see what happens. I already have an official solve, so the pressure is off on that bit.


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## Logiqx (May 22, 2018)

I got a crazy scramble on Pyra earlier today, resulting in a new PB of 1.97 and faster than the top 100 official single! It's worth a try if you can solve Pyraminx using LBL or L4E!

Scramble - B' U B U B R B R' U' B U u' b'
Solution - y' l u L R' L' R2 U' R' U'

In other news, I also got a new PB of 10.25 on 3x3... full step. I still can't shake that damned sup-10 monkey off my back!

Scramble - R' U2 F2 L' F2 R' D2 U2 R B D' B' F' U R D' L R D'
Solution - I have no idea except for the T-Shape OLL + U-Perm.


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## Jason Green (May 24, 2018)

Ok, I know I don't post much these days... But I still get a little freaked out when a whole day goes by without anything on this thread.


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## One Wheel (May 24, 2018)

Jason Green said:


> Ok, I know I don't post much these days... But I still get a little freaked out when a whole day goes by without anything on this thread.


It does get a little unnerving.

In the interest of conversation: I ought to stay home and plow the corn field, but I'm planning to go to Clocks N' Cats 2018 on Saturday. I've done a few practice feet solves, but I'm afraid that my official attempt(s) will be my first blind solve(s) in over a month. I'll be running pretty short on sleep, too. Sometimes my short-term memory drastically improves with exhaustion; here's hoping! If I get there in time for 3x3 I expect to get a roughly 25 second average, and about the same time for pyraminx. Feet has a cutoff of 2:00, which I can make if I'm either good or lucky. Both could get me one, maybe even two, sub-1:30 singles. Blind I'd really like to get 3 attempts in 15 minutes. More likely 2, though in the off chance the first is a success I'll definitely push to get 2 more.


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## newtonbase (May 24, 2018)

7/9 in 54:18 (40:06). Most cubes I've solved and equal PB on points. Slipped on 3BLD. No idea what happened on the other cube. Bought a coffee during memo.

Edit: other DNF was a memo error


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## h2f (May 24, 2018)

My 5bld on cam. You can skip to 5:05 to see reaction which is very poor.


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## pglewis (May 24, 2018)

Logiqx said:


> In other news, I also got a new PB of 10.25 on 3x3... full step. I still can't shake that damned sup-10 monkey off my back!



Thing is, you just _know_ you'll get three more the week after that first one finally arrives


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## newtonbase (May 25, 2018)

8:40 4BLD. PB by over a minute with fastest memo by over 40s. Big surprise


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## h2f (May 25, 2018)

Awsome Mark, @newtonbase! I'm gonna try some 4bld solves soon.


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## SpartanSailor (May 25, 2018)

Just got home (early out today). Thought I’d get some extra 3BLD practice before tomorrow’s comp. Just did 3:13 (1:40/1:33)! My previous PB was 3:51. I’d be THRILLED with that tomorrow.


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## pglewis (May 25, 2018)

Nicely done and good luck @SpartanSailor! 

It's time to attack my Ao50 here, I'm out to get it sub 25 at last. I'm close, just a little more F2L and OLL polish for consistency.


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## SpartanSailor (May 25, 2018)

newtonbase said:


> 8:40 4BLD. PB by over a minute with fastest memo by over 40s. Big surprise


That is pretty awesome. It’s a crazy feeling when you blow by a PB by a large margin. Always nice when it all falls into place.


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## SpartanSailor (May 25, 2018)

pglewis said:


> Nicely done and good luck @SpartanSailor!
> 
> It's time to attack my Ao50 here, I'm out to get it sub 25 at last. I'm close, just a little more F2L and OLL polish for consistency.


My current session (only 225 solves) has a best Ao50 of 23.99 and current ao50 of 24.30. 

I don’t usually concern with ao50, but do look at ao100 sometimes as a relative gauge. They are ALL much slower than I’d like. And they’ve moved backward since my last comp. I have more variability and hit faster times more often, but seem to have increased my errors too. That said, my focus is on 3BLD for now. I’m really enjoying seeing some serious improvement over the past couple months. 

Like you said, more f2l practice and OLL and you’ll be sub-25 in no time.


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## newtonbase (May 25, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> Just got home (early out today). Thought I’d get some extra 3BLD practice before tomorrow’s comp. Just did 3:13 (1:40/1:33)! My previous PB was 3:51. I’d be THRILLED with that tomorrow.


That's a huge jump. Well done.


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## chtiger (May 25, 2018)

newtonbase said:


> 8:40 4BLD. PB by over a minute with fastest memo by over 40s. Big surprise


Good job. Considering what thread we're in, I interpreted "by over 40s" to mean 'by people over 40 years old', and was confused for a bit. Then I had the 'Ohhh, I see' moment.


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## SpartanSailor (May 25, 2018)

Just snuck in a sliver of a PB single 4x4 today too... I look forward to the day I have this type of luck in a competition. Lol

1:07.74 single. Full step with OLL parity. The edge pairing was like magic... I have never seen the pairs come together that well.


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## newtonbase (May 26, 2018)

chtiger said:


> Good job. Considering what thread we're in, I interpreted "by over 40s" to mean 'by people over 40 years old', and was confused for a bit. Then I had the 'Ohhh, I see' moment.


I did notice that when I wrote it but I was in too much of a hurry to redo it.


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## openseas (May 26, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> Just got home (early out today). Thought I’d get some extra 3BLD practice before tomorrow’s comp. Just did 3:13 (1:40/1:33)! My previous PB was 3:51. I’d be THRILLED with that tomorrow.



Great job!

Hope to see you officially repeat it today!


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## muchacho (May 26, 2018)

Reached 70000 timed solves, last 5000 solves were not bad but it's more like just a consolidation of the improvement during the previous 5000 solves. The goal of being sub-17 this year may be difficult to achive, I'm not totally sure I could say I'm even sub-18 right now.


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## pglewis (May 26, 2018)

pglewis said:


> It's time to attack my Ao50 here, I'm out to get it sub 25 at last. I'm close, just a little more F2L and OLL polish for consistency.



Day 1 on the war vs sup :25 Ao50: the usual issue on a longer session, things went well until about 20-25 solves in. At my best I'm feeling right at the brink of another decent breakthrough, with solves ~22 that have hiccups and known issues, sometimes even CFOOP solves. Then I hit a spell where I can't get under 25 for a half dozen solves. That said, I knocked a half second off my previous Ao50 and have it down to 25.55 now.

[Edit: and, deleting four disaster sup 40 solves and doing four fresh ones it was 24.47, so it's _that_ close.]


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## openseas (May 26, 2018)

Just recruited one more oldie, John.

https://www.worldcubeassociation.org/persons/2016GILL02

He will say hi soon


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## SpartanSailor (May 26, 2018)

Have to admit, I’m a little disappointed after today’s competition. I did several events and even snuck in a slight improvement on my official ao5 PB, but still felt like it was a sloppy series of 3x3. 

I went with my primary goal/event being 3BLD. lots of good practice leading and dropped My times by a few minutes! My PB is 3:13 as of yesterday and I even did a 3:16 sitting at the table warming up with Jae while Jeff practiced elsewhere. Then, when it counted, it came off the rails. 3xDNF. The encouraging bit is that I was pushing my memo and not playing it safe. But that cost me. In all three cases, I was unable to recall my entire memo and just unable to finish. Oh well, there’s always the next time. 

Always nice to see Jae at events too—oldies representing!


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## One Wheel (May 26, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> Have to admit, I’m a little disappointed after today’s competition. I did several events and even snuck in a slight improvement on my official ao5 PB, but still felt like it was a sloppy series of 3x3.
> 
> I went with my primary goal/event being 3BLD. lots of good practice leading and dropped My times by a few minutes! My PB is 3:13 as of yesterday and I even did a 3:16 sitting at the table warming up with Jae while Jeff practiced elsewhere. Then, when it counted, it came off the rails. 3xDNF. The encouraging bit is that I was pushing my memo and not playing it safe. But that cost me. In all three cases, I was unable to recall my entire memo and just unable to finish. Oh well, there’s always the next time.
> 
> Always nice to see Jae at events too—oldies representing!


My competition didn't even go that well. I was 3 or 4 miles on the way to a competition about 90 miles away when I pulled up to a stop sign. I put the brake pedal on the floor, coasted through the intersection, and decided it really wasn't my lucky day anyway. I made it back home without killing anybody though, so it's not a total failure.


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## SpartanSailor (May 26, 2018)

One Wheel said:


> My competition didn't even go that well. I was 3 or 4 miles on the way to a competition about 90 miles away when I pulled up to a stop sign. I put the brake pedal on the floor, coasted through the intersection, and decided it really wasn't my lucky day anyway. I made it back home without killing anybody though, so it's not a total failure.


Wow! Getting home safe, that’s pretty good luck when your brakes fail. 

Glad your okay.


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## Mike Hughey (May 26, 2018)

One Wheel said:


> My competition didn't even go that well. I was 3 or 4 miles on the way to a competition about 90 miles away when I pulled up to a stop sign. I put the brake pedal on the floor, coasted through the intersection, and decided it really wasn't my lucky day anyway. I made it back home without killing anybody though, so it's not a total failure.


Wow, total brake failure? Do you know what's wrong with them? Scary. Glad you're okay.


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## SpartanSailor (May 26, 2018)

Did you look at the brake master Cylinder to see if there’s brake fluid inside the engine compartment? Rupture in the brake line somewhere? That’s not a good feeling hitting the brakes and having no response. Seriously, glad you’re okay.


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## One Wheel (May 26, 2018)

Mike Hughey said:


> Wow, total brake failure? Do you know what's wrong with them? Scary. Glad you're okay.


The brake line next to the right rear wheel blew out. It was pretty easy to find, now I've just got to figure out how to fix it. I doubt duct tape will do, although it would fit the aesthetic of the car.


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## SpartanSailor (May 27, 2018)

One Wheel said:


> The brake line next to the right rear wheel blew out. It was pretty easy to find, now I've just got to figure out how to fix it. I doubt duct tape will do, although it would fit the aesthetic of the car.


Front or rear wheel? Either way, you’ll likely have to replace the entire line from the brake to the master cylinder. I doubt duct tape will suffice as well. Although... I’d probably try it in a pinch.


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## One Wheel (May 27, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> Front or rear wheel? Either way, you’ll likely have to replace the entire line from the brake to the master cylinder. I doubt duct tape will suffice as well. Although... I’d probably try it in a pinch.


Rear. TBH the brakes have been a little soft for a few weeks. I wouldn't be surprised if I need to replace at least 2 lines. It's a 15-year old Saturn with close to 175k miles on it, I don't expect too much. Funny thing is I've got a truck and a tractor with soft brakes right now, too. Not only that, but the tractor brakes are bad on the right, the car lost the right brake line, and the truck has a flat front right tire.

On a more cubing related topic: I decided to pre-order an X-man Shadow from SCS. Cheaper than even the Chinese shops. I'm excited about that: I don't have a good 6x6 at the moment. I also probably have enough time between now and my next comp that I can start working on 4BLD. That should be fun.


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## SpartanSailor (May 27, 2018)

I have been looking at that x-man 6x6 too. I don’t really do 6x6, but might give it more attention if I had better hardware. That’s not a magnetic puzzle, right? One thing I’ve noticed with my somewhat recent 4x4 and 5x5 M puzzles is that I REALLY enjoy them much more with magnets. Seems like the middle layers are far more stable with magnets. My 6x6 and 7x7 are both MOYU brands but non-magnetic. The middle layers are always moving around causing lockup’s and mis-slices and going all “wonky” during OLL and PLL stages.


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## One Wheel (May 27, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> I have been looking at that x-man 6x6 too. I don’t really do 6x6, but might give it more attention if I had better hardware. That’s not a magnetic puzzle, right? One thing I’ve noticed with my somewhat recent 4x4 and 5x5 M puzzles is that I REALLY enjoy them much more with magnets. Seems like the middle layers are far more stable with magnets. My 6x6 and 7x7 are both MOYU brands but non-magnetic. The middle layers are always moving around causing lockup’s and mis-slices and going all “wonky” during OLL and PLL stages.


I like magnetic big cubes a lot, but I ordered the non-magnetic version. I kind of enjoy magnetizing big cubes, and I tend to prefer stronger magnets anyway, so I'll get some measurements off of it and then get some magnets.


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## SpartanSailor (May 27, 2018)

I’m not sure I have neither the skill nor patience to magnetize the cubes myself. Is there a magnetic version?


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## One Wheel (May 27, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> I’m not sure I have neither the skill nor patience to magnetize the cubes myself. Is there a magnetic version?


Yep, it's just about $15 more. Still pretty reasonable.


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## John Gillespie (May 27, 2018)

openseas said:


> Just recruited one more oldie, John.
> 
> https://www.worldcubeassociation.org/persons/2016GILL02
> 
> He will say hi soon


Hi. Great to meet you today! And really excited to find this group!


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## SpartanSailor (May 27, 2018)

John Gillespie said:


> Hi. Great to meet you today! And really excited to find this group!


Welcome to the old guys group! Sorry I didn’t meet you today too... maybe tomorrow.


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## Mike Hughey (May 27, 2018)

I don't know if I'm necessarily the best person to be advocating hardware, but I bought a bunch of cubes from Cubicle Labs, and of all the cubes I bought, my favorite by far is my Red M. It's totally amazing, to the point where I just don't understand when people talk about there not being a decent 6x6x6. I've honestly never experienced a 5x5x5 or 7x7x7 as nice as this 6x6x6.


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## SpartanSailor (May 27, 2018)

That’s on my cubicle.us wishlist. But the x-man is MUCH less expensive and since I only do 6x6 maybe 3 times a year... I am hopeful that someday I’ll decide to take an interest in 6s and 7s. But like 5s, the level of effort needed to become “decent” and make even the soft cutoffs is more than I’m willing to put in right now. I would still like a puzzle that feels nice and is enjoyable to turn, however.


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## Mike Hughey (May 27, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> That’s on my cubicle.us wishlist. But the x-man is MUCH less expensive and since I only do 6x6 maybe 3 times a year... I am hopeful that someday I’ll decide to take an interest in 6s and 7s. But like 5s, the level of effort needed to become “decent” and make even the soft cutoffs is more than I’m willing to put in right now. I would still like a puzzle that feels nice and is enjoyable to turn, however.


Ah, I understand.


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## SpartanSailor (May 27, 2018)

For now... I’m enjoying blind WAY more than I ever expected when I decided to give it a try in Jan. I can see LOTS of opportunity for significant improvement and I just enjoy doing it. I really never thought I’d be a “blind solver”.


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## SpartanSailor (May 27, 2018)

Okay. Question about M2 for the group. 

I was talking with one of the delegates and pretty fast/successful apeedcubers from Georgia here in the States today at the competition. He was a HUGE proponent of M2 for edges. 

I have tried to work with this and I get really jumbled even with my notes and so decided to stick with OP edges as I led up to today’s comp. now that is over, I’d like to learn M2, but for the life of me I just can’t seem to get it. 

Anyway, Jacob was telling me to forget about the I/S and C/W swap when those are the second letter in a pair. He showed me something (too quickly for me to digest in the moment) about shifting the setup and instead, just solving both edges simultaneously when I/S or C/W are the second letter in a pair... where do I find more about this?

Also, I have particular issues when the pair is CW, WC, IS or SI. I “should” be doing the first alg twice, but that never works for me... what am I missing?


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## pglewis (May 27, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> Anyway, Jacob was telling me to forget about the I/S and C/W swap when those are the second letter in a pair. He showed me something (too quickly for me to digest in the moment) about shifting the setup and instead, just solving both edges simultaneously when I/S or C/W are the second letter in a pair... where do I find more about this?



I haven't picked up anything for C/W (which are short and quick), but I know these to solve 2 at once as long as I or S is one of the targets and the other is not on the M slice:


```
("X" for these is the normal setup move for the other target)
I?: M2 X M  X' M
?I: M' X M' X' M2
  
S?: M2 X M' X' M'
?S: M  X M  X' M2
```

Mark has some good info on M2 extensions here: https://www.speedsolving.com/forum/threads/advanced-m2-guide.56076/



SpartanSailor said:


> Also, I have particular issues when the pair is CW, WC, IS or SI. I “should” be doing the first alg twice, but that never works for me... what am I missing?



This most certainly should work.


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## Mike Hughey (May 27, 2018)

Wow, 15 multiBLD is within my reach!

For the Weekly Competition I just got 12/15 in 58:04:00 [40:57.05]. 5th cube was off by 2 flipped edges (I didn't notice the flipped edge when memorizing), 12th cube off by 3 edges (I skipped one image in my rush to solve when solving - I remembered it but accidentally thought I had already executed it), and 14th cube off by 3 edges (I memorized L instead of I by mistake).

A very encouraging result!! In theory, I could even have done 16 if I had done a last cube as a regular 3BLD; I did all 15 of these with solid full room memorization.


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## openseas (May 27, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> Anyway, Jacob was telling me to forget about the I/S and C/W swap when those are the second letter in a pair. He showed me something (too quickly for me to digest in the moment) about shifting the setup and instead, just solving both edges simultaneously when I/S or C/W are the second letter in a pair... where do I find more about this



I can show you tomorrow. It's basically a comm in disguise. Setting up with M or M' then, M2 setup is insert while another M or M' is interchange. (Or vice versa depends on the pair situation)

But nonetheless, you need to know the basic alg as well in case it falls into the single (last) target. And also, applicable for big cube BLDs as well - I mean both single alg & comm algs.

BTW, great to see you again @SpartSailor. John will come tomorrow - we can meet together in the venue. 

For me & Jeff, 1st day was meh, close to disaster. I've been travelling past 4 weeks - Korea 1 week - one night at home then to Italy for one week, another one night at home then to Korea for 4 nights, arrived home Thu morning, flew that night here while Jeff was tied up finishing his semester - both of us had not touched cubes for a while. Bit it will be a start of many summer comps, we're excited about!


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## newtonbase (May 27, 2018)

Well done on the MBLD result @Mike Hughey I feel like 15 might be within my powers eventually but you should be well ahead by then if you keep at it.
Big congratulations to @One Wheel for still being with us . You should defintely learn 4BLD btw.


SpartanSailor said:


> Okay. Question about M2 for the group.
> 
> I was talking with one of the delegates and pretty fast/successful apeedcubers from Georgia here in the States today at the competition. He was a HUGE proponent of M2 for edges.
> 
> ...


Mark's Advanced M2 is your best resource as suggested above.
Using the alg twice should work for SI and CW pairs but there are shortcuts. For SI do an x then execute as AI (IS is x then IA). Note the M2 is cancelled. Alternatively do a single move setup and solve the advanced M2 method.
CW is simply M u2 M u2 (or M D2 M' D2 or x U2 M' U2 M x or [M' : U2 M' U2 M]) with the inverse for WC. Lots of easy options there.
Welcome to @John Gillespie


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## adimare (May 27, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> Also, I have particular issues when the pair is CW, WC, IS or SI. I “should” be doing the first alg twice, but that never works for me... what am I missing?



It should work, here's an example scramble/solution with only W and C as targets:

*Scramble:* (U2 M')4
*Solution:*
M U2 M U2 // W
M U2 M U2 // C
View on alg.cubing.net

And here it is on a full scramble that contains the letter pair WC:

*Scramble:* U2 F2 L U2 R2 F2 R2 F2 L D2 F D2 F' D' B F2 U' L D2
*Edge letter pairs:* PE AR WC XN LM OA
*Corner letter pairs:* CH GK MD OI
*Corner twists:* B counterclockwise

*Solution:*
// Edges
[B' R2 B: M2] // P
[B L' B': M2] // E
M2 // A
[U' L U: M2] // R
*M U2 M U2 // W
M U2 M U2 // C*
[U' L2 U: M2] // X
[R B' R' B: M2] // N
[U' L' U: M2] // L
[B' R B: M2] // M
[B' R' B: M2] // O
M2 // A

// Corners
[F: R U' R' U' R U R' F' R U R' U' R' F R] // C
[D2: R U' R' U' R U R' F' R U R' U' R' F R] // H
[D2 R: R U' R' U' R U R' F' R U R' U' R' F R] // G
[F D: R U' R' U' R U R' F' R U R' U' R' F R] // K
[R': R U' R' U' R U R' F' R U R' U' R' F R] // M
[F R': R U' R' U' R U R' F' R U R' U' R' F R] // D
[R: R U' R' U' R U R' F' R U R' U' R' F R] // O
[F' D: R U' R' U' R U R' F' R U R' U' R' F R] // I
[R' F': R U R' U R U2 R' L' U' L U' L' U2 L] // Flip B
View on alg.cubing.net


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## SpartanSailor (May 27, 2018)

adimare said:


> It should work, here's an example scramble/solution with only W and C as targets:
> 
> *Scramble:* (U2 M')4
> *Solution:*
> ...


I guess I still get confused about the buffer piece. Maybe I get confused because I’m thinking too much about ... in your edge memo, the first A is actuall U. That’s just a cycle break, right? My brain has figured out to ignore that while doing memo for op. Just need to rewrite my brain to ignore K or U (speffz) instead of B or M.


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## adimare (May 27, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> In your edge memo, the first A is actuall U. That’s just a cycle break, right?


Correct.

I can sort of relate. I've never switched BLD methods, but I did switch orientation, and at first it's a pain getting used to recognize cycle breaks.


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## openseas (May 27, 2018)

@SpartanSailor @newtonbase @John Gillespie 

Below google sheet is what I summarized for M2 & Advanced M2.
Not completed but figured I wouldn't work on much any more. At least you can see the 2nd sheet - setup / unsetp cheat sheet for basic M2.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/13Mkh6lG1nGTI4mtIoDIJzju2Lw7jybbXwJcpfr_Pyh0/edit?usp=sharing


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## openseas (May 27, 2018)

Missed 5BLD both by l slice and couple of D2 off.
Time was 29min (both attempts)

1st one, T center execution was off in the middle, tried to fix it but looks like missed l slice in the process.

2nd attempt, forgot the last two T center pairs, moved on to Wing and midges and recalled those two pairs, executed but again, off by one l and one D2.

Waisted wonderful supports from my fellow Oldies (Jeremy and John) :-(


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## h2f (May 27, 2018)

@openseas Sad to hear this. I hope you'll succesfull next time.


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## pglewis (May 27, 2018)

Bummer @openseas, @SpartanSailor on your goals. Last time out I was 0-fer on 3bld and a 40 avg for 3x3, so I feel your pain.


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## Mike Hughey (May 27, 2018)

Nothing's more painful in cubing than striking out on BLD in competition, but I can speak from experience - it makes the next success that much sweeter when it finally arrives!

I currently have a streak of 7 5BLD DNFs in competition, which is just horrific for me. I hope I can get to another competition with 5BLD soon, but it's looking like that may be a while. So I feel your pain too.


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## openseas (May 27, 2018)

Mike Hughey said:


> Nothing's more painful in cubing than striking out on BLD in competition, but I can speak from experience - it makes the next success that much sweeter when it finally arrives!
> 
> I currently have a streak of 7 5BLD DNFs in competition, which is just horrific for me. I hope I can get to another competition with 5BLD soon, but it's looking like that may be a while. So I feel your pain too.




Thanks, all.

Just realized what was wrong for the 2nd attempt. I should have finished T center before wing / wing parity! It ruins center. When I memorized, I memo'd wing as even pair but during exec, I realized that added one more letter (duplicated), so, did parity to close. That rotated some centers!


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## h2f (May 27, 2018)

Mike Hughey said:


> I currently have a streak of 7 5BLD DNFs in competition, which is just horrific for me. I hope I can get to another competition with 5BLD soon, but it's looking like that may be a while. So I feel your pain too.



11 attempts of 5bld in last 3 years. No success so far. I mean official. In home my success rate is around 10% now.


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## SpartanSailor (May 27, 2018)

openseas said:


> Missed 5BLD both by l slice and couple of D2 off.
> Time was 29min (both attempts)
> 
> 1st one, T center execution was off in the middle, tried to fix it but looks like missed l slice in the process.
> ...


You did well and it was nice to be in your fan club today.


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## openseas (May 27, 2018)

h2f said:


> 11 attempts of 5bld in last 3 years. No success so far. I mean official. In home my success rate is around 10% now.



Same here, 11th DNF, no official success yet.


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## SpartanSailor (May 28, 2018)

Finally... I’ve “figured out” M2 edges... sort of. If I use my notes, I can get it to work out. I still have to learn the various special cases to make them smooth and the set-ups to skip FU and BD locations when pairing with a non-M slice edge. (I like this trick, btw...)

Still have a follow up question: the case or situation when I need to swap FU/UF with BD/DB. Or just needing to flip the FU/UF edge... 

I just can’t figure that bit out. I don’t like the idea of trying to learn a new alg for each piece like this... in defense of OP edges... there’s no special weird cases and I can just blaze along without all the extra mental gymnastics.


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## phreaker (May 28, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> Finally... I’ve “figured out” M2 edges... sort of. If I use my notes, I can get it to work out. I still have to learn the various special cases to make them smooth and the set-ups to skip FU and BD locations when pairing with a non-M slice edge. (I like this trick, btw...)
> 
> Still have a follow up question: the case or situation when I need to swap FU/UF with BD/DB. Or just needing to flip the FU/UF edge...
> 
> I just can’t figure that bit out. I don’t like the idea of trying to learn a new alg for each piece like this... in defense of OP edges... there’s no special weird cases and I can just blaze along without all the extra mental gymnastics.



FU / UF - BD/DB has nothing special about it. Just remember to do the BD/DB piece as the second piece... not the first. (Swap the targets.)

Edge flip algs, there's 1001 on the net. I'm starting to learn one. (M' U M' U M') U2 (M U M U M) U2 flips UF and BF.

A F2 setup and F2 back would make it work for M2.


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## pglewis (May 28, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> Still have a follow up question: the case or situation when I need to swap FU/UF with BD/DB. Or just needing to flip the FU/UF edge...
> 
> I just can’t figure that bit out. I don’t like the idea of trying to learn a new alg for each piece like this... in defense of OP edges... there’s no special weird cases and I can just blaze along without all the extra mental gymnastics.



I wouldn't worry about the advanced techniques for swaps there until you have the basic M2 mechanics comfortable. Since you're already developed with the basics of blindsolves I'd just spam edge solves for a couple days via M2, sighted if you need to as often as needed. A few days and you'll be well on your way.


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## pglewis (May 28, 2018)

Day 2 in the war on sup-25: now it's just getting silly. Dropped the Ao50 a couple more tenths to 25.30, but the first Ao25 was 23.90 . Literally bombed the whole thing with 5 straight sup 30s on the last 5 solves. I'm having a good 3x3 spell despite that annoyance, all averages have moved this weekend and single is easily beatable with one really good one plus a skip.


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## newtonbase (May 28, 2018)

phreaker said:


> Edge flip algs, there's 1001 on the net. I'm starting to learn one. (M' U M' U M') U2 (M U M U M) U2 flips UF and BF.


The first edge flip I learned was for this case and is still my favourite 
M' U' M' U' M' U' M' U2 M' U' M' U' M' U' M'
Switch U' for U if you prefer


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## mark49152 (May 28, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> I just can’t figure that bit out. I don’t like the idea of trying to learn a new alg for each piece like this... in defense of OP edges... there’s no special weird cases and I can just blaze along without all the extra mental gymnastics.


IMHO it's best to master basic M2 before moving on to special cases and advanced tricks. Apart from learning the algs and coping with odd/even targets, there's nothing more complex to M2 over OP. You can do all swaps and flips by shooting to appropriate targets, and that will continue to be useful knowledge in future even after learning more advanced tricks.


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## SpartanSailor (May 28, 2018)

@pglewis i like that you have “waged war” on your time goal! That’s motivation for sure!

I was trying to avoid learning the longer alg for FU and BD targets, but drilling those a little will be easier in the short term and pay off in the long run. That being the case, i was pleased to do a full blind solve using M2 without my notes. Happened to be an even number of targets, but still managed to get the UF tarted as second in a pair and so applied it’s “partner” alg for DB. 

Any way you slice it (pun intended), I’m having fun learning new stuff. My next comp with blind is the Maryland 2018 on June 30-July 1. I think I’ll use M2 for that comp and just see what happens. I mean... I have the concept already. I “should” be able to dial in the special case algs by then.


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## h2f (May 28, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> I was trying to avoid learning the longer alg for FU and BD targets



Both algs are very usefull and in fact are comms with M2 added.


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## SpartanSailor (May 28, 2018)

h2f said:


> Both algs are very usefull and in fact are comms with M2 added.


I’m just relaxing today watching some movies and spamming these algs. By next weekend, I ought to have them down well enough to confidently be using M2 for edges. 

Even with my slower setups and return, I can tell this is MUCH faster than OP edges. Once I’m over the learning curve, I’m interested to see what my times end up being.


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## pglewis (May 28, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> @pglewis i like that you have “waged war” on your time goal! That’s motivation for sure!



I'll probably call a temporary cease-fire at this point. My consistency is much better than the last time I checked Ao50, still needs some work but shouldn't be long now. I'm sure I could nab a sub :25 if I keep attacking it but I figure I'm better off returning to slow deliberate solves now, that's where i get most of the impact. 



SpartanSailor said:


> I’m just relaxing today watching some movies and spamming these algs. By next weekend, I ought to have them down well enough to confidently be using M2 for edges.
> 
> Even with my slower setups and return, I can tell this is MUCH faster than OP edges. Once I’m over the learning curve, I’m interested to see what my times end up being.



You'll have it comfortable in no time. C/W are short, I/S aren't bad and are just inverses of one another, Q is worth knowing one of the M/U algs... and the rest are really very intuitive setups. It does bring along a few novel ways to make mistakes but the lower move count is well worth it.


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## mark49152 (May 29, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> I was trying to avoid learning the longer alg for FU and BD targets, but drilling those a little will be easier in the short term and pay off in the long run.





h2f said:


> Both algs are very usefull and in fact are comms with M2 added.


Yeah I agree with Grzegorz. I have no idea why people make such a big deal out of these algs. They'll happily learn dozens of CFOP algs, but recoil at the thought of learning these two M2 algs that are about as difficult as an easy OLL and so similar to each other that it's really only like learning 1.5 algs. 

I wonder why that is? Any thoughts?


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## SpartanSailor (May 29, 2018)

That was my opinion this morning... so, I just learned them. 

Now, already today, I’ve been able to be successful multiple times using M2 edges. 

All untimed, but still...


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## chtiger (May 29, 2018)

mark49152 said:


> Yeah I agree with Grzegorz. I have no idea why people make such a big deal out of these algs. They'll happily learn dozens of CFOP algs, but recoil at the thought of learning these two M2 algs that are about as difficult as an easy OLL and so similar to each other that it's really only like learning 1.5 algs.
> 
> I wonder why that is? Any thoughts?


I'll take a shot at it. Learning BLD is a daunting task for most. Adding algs to learn plus the odd/even switch just adds to the difficulty (even if it's not all that much more), when that's just less you have to worry about with OP. So you can learn the stuff necessary to do what seems like an overwhelming task at first, or you can learn all of that stuff AND learn some algs plus the odd/even swap thing. Some people will choose the first option. Simple as that, I think. 

Also, learning BLD is a new experience with lots of new stuff to learn, similar to first learning 3x3, and nobody learns dozens of CFOP algs right off the bat before they attempt a 3x3 solve, so that doesn't seem like a fair comparison. 

For my personal experience, which I realize isn't typical, those algs were awkward to learn (I'm not great at learning algs, and don't really like to either). I literally learned OP/OP from scratch and had a successful solve in less time than it took me to learn the algs for M2.


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## xyzzy (May 29, 2018)

mark49152 said:


> Yeah I agree with Grzegorz. I have no idea why people make such a big deal out of these algs. They'll happily learn dozens of CFOP algs, but recoil at the thought of learning these two M2 algs that are about as difficult as an easy OLL and so similar to each other that it's really only like learning 1.5 algs.
> 
> I wonder why that is? Any thoughts?


My personal experience: I very rarely practise BLD, so I'm not super motivated to learn any "fancy" stuff for it; I couldn't be bothered to learn any algs for M2, so I just did TuRBo instead. (I think I understand how to use M2 now, but there's no reason for me to go from 3-cycles to M2.)


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## h2f (May 29, 2018)

mark49152 said:


> I have no idea why people make such a big deal out of these algs.





chtiger said:


> I'll take a shot at it. Learning BLD is a daunting task for most. Adding algs to learn plus the odd/even switch just adds to the difficulty (even if it's not all that much more), when that's just less you have to worry about with OP. So you can learn the stuff necessary to do what seems like an overwhelming task at first, or you can learn all of that stuff AND learn some algs plus the odd/even swap thing. Some people will choose the first option. Simple as that, I think.







xyzzy said:


> My personal experience: I very rarely practise BLD, so I'm not super motivated to learn any "fancy" stuff for it;


I think that's the reason. I remember me learning it - they both seems easy now but both seemed very strange and like a twins.


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## adimare (May 29, 2018)

mark49152 said:


> Yeah I agree with Grzegorz. I have no idea why people make such a big deal out of these algs. They'll happily learn dozens of CFOP algs, but recoil at the thought of learning these two M2 algs that are about as difficult as an easy OLL and so similar to each other that it's really only like learning 1.5 algs.
> 
> I wonder why that is? Any thoughts?


As for me, there were a few reasons why I never learned them:

- The fact that the algs were similar was not a pro but a con, since it seemed like I'd be likely to confuse the two.
- By the time I started learning BLD, I was at the point where I'd re-discover cubing for a few weeks, then completely lose interest for months at a time, so I knew I had to learn BLD in a way that would stay with me after a long hiatus, which meant trying to avoid learning new long algs.
- I don't remember the tutorial I learned from (maybe it was Zane's), but the last video was titled something like "getting faster", and it explained how you could avoid the difficult targets by doing a setup move to move the target to a different location, solving 2 pairs, then undoing the setup move. This actually seemed a lot easier to me than using the algs; so for awhile whenever I'd get I, I'd just do U' to solve M instead, similarly, if I got Q I'd do U to solve M, and if I got S I'd do B and solve T.


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## SpartanSailor (May 29, 2018)

Was surprised to see the FU/BD target algs for M2 stuck from yesterday. I realise they are the reverse of each other and appreciate that since I can not just do one followed by the other. If done right, the cube returns to the starting state. Makes it easy to drill both algs.


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## MarcelP (May 29, 2018)

mark49152 said:


> I wonder why that is? Any thoughts?


I just thought they where hard to learn.  I hate learning algs. It took me a year to learn full OLL.


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## MarcelP (May 29, 2018)

Btw I received the Yuxin HuangLong today and predict this will be many people's main speedcube. It is super fast (like the cheap one they have) but way more stable. It is so smooth... I really like it.


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## pglewis (May 29, 2018)

MarcelP said:


> Btw I received the Yuxin HuangLong today and predict this will be many people's main speedcube. It is super fast (like the cheap one they have) but way more stable. It is so smooth... I really like it.



Just got the email that my preorder finally shipped, so I'll be trying it out soon as well.


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## pglewis (May 29, 2018)

On M2: I had already decided to be very patient when I took up 3bld and went straight for M2/OP from the start. I had it in my mind that it would take me 1-3 months to get a success so a few algs didn't intimidate me. Of course, it turns out it's a lot easier than I'd imagined and I got a success in a week.


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## Logiqx (May 29, 2018)

I decided to do a video of something completely different. This was the start of a recent Pyraminx session (6.53 Ao12) which is fairly representative of my global average (probably around 6.7-ish).

Maybe a couple of you are interested in seeing some Pyraminx solves!


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## CLL Smooth (May 30, 2018)

Logiqx said:


> I decided to do a video of something completely different. This was the start of a recent Pyraminx session (6.53 Ao12) which is fairly representative of my global average (probably around 6.7-ish).
> 
> Maybe a couple of you are interested in seeing some Pyraminx solves!


I’m still a little confused, so let me see if I got this straight. You solve your V then you recognize your L4E case and solve with one alg. Something like 29 cases? And after I solve my V, I solve the back edge. Which makes it a top first method even though I always do a V first.


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## Logiqx (May 30, 2018)

CLL Smooth said:


> I’m still a little confused, so let me see if I got this straight. You solve your V then you recognize your L4E case and solve with one alg. Something like 29 cases? And after I solve my V, I solve the back edge. Which makes it a top first method even though I always do a V first.



The video below should clear up any confusion about v-first vs top-first - skip to 2:35

There are 36 L4E cases including solved (i.e. 35 algs). I haven't seen a complete set online other than my own page:

https://cubing.mikeg.me.uk/algs/l4e.html


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## SpartanSailor (May 30, 2018)

pglewis said:


> On M2: I had already decided to be very patient when I took up 3bld and went straight for M2/OP from the start. I had it in my mind that it would take me 1-3 months to get a success so a few algs didn't intimidate me. Of course, it turns out it's a lot easier than I'd imagined and I got a success in a week.


im not in a hurry with 3BLD either. Part of why I started with OP/OP was to systematically work through it all so I could best understand what I was doing. In retrospect, M2 wasn’t difficult to understand. At the start, however, it was easier for me to learn the BLD solving process by doing so without any need to learn a new Alg—that’s just how my brain works. I tend to take things slow and methodically through my own process. That said, at the beginning of the year my goal was to get a success in 3BLD by the end of 2018. Sooooooo.... that’s come and gone. Lol


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## SpartanSailor (May 30, 2018)

Logiqx said:


> The video below should clear up any confusion about v-first vs top-first - skip to 2:35
> 
> There are 36 L4E cases including solved (i.e. 35 algs). I haven't seen a complete set online other than my own page:
> 
> https://cubing.mikeg.me.uk/algs/l4e.html


Lol, Drew cracks me up... here’s my summary of the video:

“Hey guys, I made this video to show you how to get fast. But I can’t show you anything. It’s all intuitive and requires lots of practice. If you don’t like intuitive, then learn a lot of algs and practice a lot.”


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## JohnnyReggae (May 30, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> Lol, Drew cracks me up... here’s my summary of the video:
> 
> “Hey guys, I made this video to show you how to get fast. But I can’t show you anything. It’s all intuitive and requires lots of practice. If you don’t like intuitive, then learn a lot of algs and practice a lot.”


That's kinda what I got as well


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## muchacho (May 30, 2018)

I didn't practice much OH in the last 2-3 months and getting fast again it's taking me much more effort than I thought. I'm still around one second slower, but...

3x3 OH Ao12 PB: 23.625 (was 23.942 from 2/Feb)



Spoiler



11603 30-may-2018 14:07:29 00:21.543 U' F2 L2 U L2 D' U' L2 B2 D2 L2 B F2 D' R' L2 B2 F D2 R2 U
11602 30-may-2018 14:06:35 00:26.286 D' R2 D U F2 R2 U' R2 F2 R2 U2 B L' B2 F2 U' R' F U2 B' U'
11601 30-may-2018 14:05:43 00:27.744 U2 R2 D' B2 D F2 R2 D' L2 F2 U L' D' F' R B2 R2 F' D' R2 F' D
11600 30-may-2018 14:04:53 00:18.535 B2 D2 B2 R2 L2 U' R2 U L2 D' U F' R' F2 D2 L' U' F L' F D2
11599 30-may-2018 14:04:05 00:27.271 U2 L2 D R2 L2 U L2 U R2 F2 L2 B F D' R B' L U R' L D'
11598 30-may-2018 14:03:24 00:21.575 B2 L2 B2 F2 U' F2 U' F2 U' R2 U B L' B2 U' F D' U F' L D
11597 30-may-2018 14:02:39 00:20.079 U B2 F2 L2 U' B2 U' B2 D L2 U' B' U2 L' D' F2 R2 L B2 D F'
11596 30-may-2018 14:01:53 00:24.918 D' R2 B2 U F2 D R2 U2 B2 R2 U R D' B2 U' F2 R2 D' F' R2 D
11595 30-may-2018 14:01:09 00:17.479 B2 D2 L2 B2 D' F2 L2 F2 L2 U' B2 R' B' D2 B2 R F' D B F' R'
11594 30-may-2018 14:00:19 00:30.174 R2 D2 U' R2 F2 L2 B2 U' F2 L2 D' B L2 U2 R' U2 F' U2 L' F R2
11593 30-may-2018 13:59:30 00:21.805 L2 B2 U R2 D2 F2 U B2 D B2 F2 L F' R F' U2 L D' U' B' F D
11592 30-may-2018 13:58:47 00:26.494 L2 D B2 L2 B2 L2 U F2 D B2 U L' F2 D2 B' D' B2 L B2 D U'


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## newtonbase (May 30, 2018)

7/10 MBLD in 54:43 (41:26). Had plenty of time for an extra review. Execution was my fastest for 10 and faster than all but one of my attempts at 9. One failure was an edge flip I saw on 1st pass but missed in my reviews. Another was an F move out. Best score for 10 too.


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## Logiqx (May 30, 2018)

It looks like it'll just be @Shaky Hands and myself representing the oldies in Hastings this weekend. I'm only planning to do the Sunday which means 3x3, OH and Pyra... hopefully 2 rounds of each event.

Following that event and going on holiday, Peterborough doesn't look too well attended at the end of June either - @Shaky Hands, @mark49152 and myself. Again, I'll only be doing the Sunday - 3x3, OH, 2x2, Mega.

I'm hoping to attend the UK Champs in Stevenage (end of October) where hopefully I'll get to see the rest of you - @Selkie, @bubbagrub, @newtonbase @SenorJuan.


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## Logiqx (May 30, 2018)

muchacho said:


> I didn't practice much OH in the last 2-3 months and getting fast again it's taking me much more effort than I thought. I'm still around one second slower, but...
> 
> 3x3 OH Ao12 PB: 23.625 (was 23.942 from 2/Feb)



Nice Ao12!

I can relate to the effort required. It's taken about a month of practice to get back to my global averages from February.


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## mark49152 (May 30, 2018)

chtiger said:


> I'll take a shot at it.


Interesting responses. I'll take a shot too and answer my own question, since I exaggerated when I said I had no idea .

Those two algs look very different to the typical CFOP algs. Having M and D moves in the same alg, and a different pattern with none of the usual RUF triggers, seems a bit alien at first. I still maintain they are not that hard, but I can see why they might throw some people.


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## newtonbase (May 30, 2018)

Logiqx said:


> It looks like it'll just be @Shaky Hands and myself representing the oldies in Hastings this weekend. I'm only planning to do the Sunday which means 3x3, OH and Pyra... hopefully 2 rounds of each event.
> 
> Following that event and going on holiday, Peterborough doesn't look too well attended at the end of June either - @Shaky Hands, @mark49152 and myself. Again, I'll only be doing the Sunday - 3x3, OH, 2x2, Mega.
> 
> I'm hoping to attend the UK Champs in Stevenage (end of October) where hopefully I'll get to see the rest of you - @Selkie, @bubbagrub, @newtonbase @SenorJuan.


I was late registering for Peterborough so I'm 7th on the waiting list. It's my only chance to qualify for MBLD for the UKs so I'm planning to turn up for that event anyway and see if they'll let me compete. Unfortunately I'll miss you @Logiqx as that's on the Saturday. Definitely going to the UKs.


----------



## bubbagrub (May 30, 2018)

newtonbase said:


> I was late registering for Peterborough so I'm 7th on the waiting list. It's my only chance to qualify for MBLD for the UKs so I'm planning to turn up for that event anyway and see if they'll let me compete. Unfortunately I'll miss you @Logiqx as that's on the Saturday. Definitely going to the UKs.


Yup, I also missed registration for Peterborough and haven't bothered to get on the waiting list... Will be at Euros and UKC, for sure.


----------



## Jason Green (May 30, 2018)

Hey guys, did you see this?





You can follow users on there so it seems pretty cool, not sure what it might be missing compared to the spreadsheet we have shared. I haven't checked it out yet but I plan to.

One other thing that I have been thinking about is on the age based rankings. I have Jeremy Fleischman's email so I am going to ask him about this. The way I understand it they cannot do the age rankings because of exposing people's age without permission. However, what if they had an opt in age ranking that was anonymous for those not opted in. In other words, if someone is not opted in it does not show any of their information, but it still counts their times in computing the rankings. You might have someone ranked at 10th for 3x3 single, and then the next name might be 15th, because 11-14 people had not opted in (for example). But at least if you were ranked 15th you would know that is truly from all WCA competitors in that age group.

Does it make sense? What am I missing?


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## SpartanSailor (May 30, 2018)

Jason Green said:


> Hey guys, did you see this?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I’m not a computer guy much at all for writing programs to do this type of data sort, but I kind of like the idea. Of course, I think it’s important that the time for an age group only count if the competitor was in that age group at the time of the comp. For example, if my birthday was yesterday and I’m in a new age group, then my current (new) age group ranking would have no times. 

As much as I’m interested, unless there’s going to be official age groups this doesn’t really do much other than allow for another random data sort. One thing I like about the WCA is that in comps all that matters is your time. No age groups, no genders... nothing. It’s the one place that is universally baselines for everyone. Once we start adding age groups, then there’s M/F and suddenly for every record there’s a dozen new ones.

Again, for fun to sort amongst outselves, I like the idea and would be interested to know where my times fall into the hierarchy.


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## Logiqx (May 30, 2018)

newtonbase said:


> I was late registering for Peterborough so I'm 7th on the waiting list. It's my only chance to qualify for MBLD for the UKs so I'm planning to turn up for that event anyway and see if they'll let me compete. Unfortunately I'll miss you @Logiqx as that's on the Saturday. Definitely going to the UKs.



There's a reasonable chance that you'll get in but as you say... just turn up anyway. I'm pretty sure they'd let you compete in MBLD. I would offer to judge if I was attending on Saturday but it's most likely I'll be going on Sunday only.


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## SpartanSailor (May 30, 2018)

I just registered an account. I’ll have to actually look at our spreadsheet to find my PBs for some stuff.


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## Logiqx (May 30, 2018)

Jason Green said:


> Hey guys, did you see this?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Yes, that makes good sense. The idea / intention was always for people to opt-in but having gaps in the rankings for people who have not opted in / opted out has the advantage of entirely accurate rankings. You could even include the times but leave show the names, countries and competition details as "anonymous". That way the list would be complete but you wouldn't know the identities of everyone. Well... other than a unique time existing in the database.


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## pglewis (May 30, 2018)

I still haven't been drilling 3bld enough, or mbld at all; just a handful of maintenance 3bld solves daily. I believe I've maintained roughly where I left off at least. I need to do a pushed memo session again soon, just for the friendly rivalry with @SpartanSailor .


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## SpartanSailor (May 30, 2018)

@pglewis you better practice... I’m coming for ya! Lol


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## Jason Green (May 30, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> I’m not a computer guy much at all for writing programs to do this type of data sort, but I kind of like the idea. Of course, I think it’s important that the time for an age group only count if the competitor was in that age group at the time of the comp. For example, if my birthday was yesterday and I’m in a new age group, then my current (new) age group ranking would have no times.
> 
> As much as I’m interested, unless there’s going to be official age groups this doesn’t really do much other than allow for another random data sort. One thing I like about the WCA is that in comps all that matters is your time. No age groups, no genders... nothing. It’s the one place that is universally baselines for everyone. Once we start adding age groups, then there’s M/F and suddenly for every record there’s a dozen new ones.
> 
> Again, for fun to sort amongst outselves, I like the idea and would be interested to know where my times fall into the hierarchy.


They used to have some cool age rank options I was told but had to remove them (or did so proactively before getting in trouble). People do track female records and stuff unofficially, but all I was suggesting is a more accurate version of our oldie rankings. But that's a good idea if the software was flexible enough you could filter by sex or whatever you were interested in. But yes for age it has to be at the time of the comp of course. 



Logiqx said:


> Yes, that makes good sense. The idea / intention was always for people to opt-in but having gaps in the rankings for people who have not opted in / opted out has the advantage of entirely accurate rankings. You could even include the times but leave show the names, countries and competition details as "anonymous". That way the list would be complete but you wouldn't know the identities of everyone. Well... other than a unique time existing in the database.


Of course if there was someone that didn't want to tell their age and you suspected they were age X (say 40), then if their PB showed up as just a time on the rankings it might be a pretty big clue.


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## pglewis (May 30, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> @pglewis you better practice... I’m coming for ya! Lol



I'm afraid those tables already turned and you passed me. It is _*I*_ who needs to go on the attack* *


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## Logiqx (May 30, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> I just registered an account. I’ll have to actually look at our spreadsheet to find my PBs for some stuff.



Looks quite nice. I've added the events that I'm doing this coming weekend.

https://cubepb.com/user/52933


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## SpartanSailor (May 30, 2018)

pglewis said:


> I'm afraid those tables already turned and you passed me. It is _*I*_ who needs to go on the attack* *


Well then, I need to be getting to it so it isn’t too easy for you to recatch and surpass me!


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## Logiqx (May 30, 2018)

muchacho said:


> I didn't practice much OH in the last 2-3 months and getting fast again it's taking me much more effort than I thought. I'm still around one second slower, but...
> 
> 3x3 OH Ao12 PB: 23.625 (was 23.942 from 2/Feb)



Sorry David but I forgot to update the PB spreadsheet last week - 23.50 on May 22.


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## openseas (May 30, 2018)

Logiqx said:


> Looks quite nice. I've added the events that I'm doing this coming weekend.
> 
> https://cubepb.com/user/52933



Looks good + competition information based on your preferred distance range is also cool. 

https://cubepb.com/user/26215 <-- looks like there is a glitch. It found my son's WCA id and just assigned it as mine.
I can't find a way to change the WCA profile / no information how to contact administrator, lol..


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## Mike Hughey (May 30, 2018)

Logiqx said:


> There's a reasonable chance that you'll get in but as you say... just turn up anyway. I'm pretty sure they'd let you compete in MBLD.


I would think regulation Z4a would prohibit that. Does it not?


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## Jason Green (May 30, 2018)

openseas said:


> Looks good + competition information based on your preferred distance range is also cool.
> 
> https://cubepb.com/user/26215 <-- looks like there is a glitch. It found my son's WCA id and just assigned it as mine.
> I can't find a way to change the WCA profile / no information how to contact administrator, lol..


There is a link at the bottom to email for bugs.


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## newtonbase (May 30, 2018)

Mike Hughey said:


> I would think regulation Z4a would prohibit that. Does it not?


I'm hoping that, as I have registered, I just need a few people to not show on the day. Obviously it would be better if people advised in advance that they weren't coming but we know that doesn't always happen.


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## Mike Hughey (May 31, 2018)

Oh, I suppose maybe the witing list is the way around that regulation. I get it now.

There should probably be a clarification in the Guidelines for that.


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## pglewis (May 31, 2018)

Just finished another timed 3x3 Ao50+ and it's going to be a fun time for milestones: 

Sub :15 single: Yeah, it'd be an outlier. Yeah it'd probably have to include some luck. But with number of low :20 and better solves now it's a possibility at any time. 

Sub :20 Ao5: I still have a ways to go to be a legit sub 20 threat but I dropped the PB another half second, under 21 now. Just a matter of time before I hit a good spell, get a counting 18, and choke... er... 

Sub :25 Ao50: Still a few too many mistakes ending in disaster solves but OLL improvement alone will eventually fix a number of those problems plus the faster solves edging lower. 

Sub 3:00 3bld: I'm sure I have it in me on a good day with a good trace.


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## Logiqx (May 31, 2018)

I was browsing the Hastings comp information and noticed that judging and scrambling has been assigned.

That's cool but I don't remember it at any of my comps before now. How long has the UKCA been doing this?


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## openseas (May 31, 2018)

Logiqx said:


> I was browsing the Hastings comp information and noticed that judging and scrambling has been assigned.
> 
> That's cool but I don't remember it at any of my comps before now. How long has the UKCA been doing this?
> 
> View attachment 9174



Jonatan’s Groupify generates that table automatically. He made that for organizers a while ago.


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## SpartanSailor (May 31, 2018)

They have been doing that in our area here in the state for awhile now. One of the delegates visited Europe and did a few comps. I guess the organisers used that method when he was there and he liked it. 

I think it helps keep the judging stations manned and the comps flow more on time as a result.


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## Logiqx (May 31, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> They have been doing that in our area here in the state for awhile now. One of the delegates visited Europe and did a few comps. I guess the organisers used that method when he was there and he liked it.
> 
> I think it helps keep the judging stations manned and the comps flow more on time as a result.



I've a feeling it may be the first time they've done it in the UK as previous comps on the WCA site don't have group, judging, scrambling information.


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## SpartanSailor (May 31, 2018)

Ours includes runners too. In fact, locally (we have a lot of comps and several talented world class Cubers that come out), they assign judging and running. The keep scrambling for the event “staff”. I guess they figure they can lessen concerns about the scrambles by limiting the people involved.

The scramblers end up being the “whose who” of cubers at an event. Hahahaha


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## Logiqx (May 31, 2018)

Jason Green said:


> There is a link at the bottom to email for bugs.



Having used it for a little while, I think it is a useful tool and I'll look forward to getting PB notifications for the people that I'm following. I'm going to start spamming my 2 followers with Pyra notifications. Now down to 6.51 Ao100.

I think the Google Sheet still has some use since it allows us to see other people's times at a glance. Maybe some time in the future cubepb.com will allow us to view multiple people at once (AKA custom rankings).


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## newtonbase (May 31, 2018)

I'm pretty sure that the judging and scrambling lists have been used in the UK since at least Manchester (February). Possibly earlier.
The groups are a bit more random now too rather than alphabetical. It saves 4 people saying _yes_ when a runner calls out a first name.


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## SpartanSailor (May 31, 2018)

Logiqx said:


> Having used it for a little while, I think it is a useful tool and I'll look forward to getting PB notifications for the people that I'm following. I'm going to start spamming my 2 followers with Pyra notifications. Now down to 6.51 Ao100.
> 
> I think the Google Sheet still has some use since it allows us to see other people's times at a glance. Maybe some time in the future cubepb.com will allow us to view multiple people at once (AKA custom rankings).


As one of your two followers... I'll let you know how the notifications work! LOL


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## h2f (May 31, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> Ours includes runners too. In fact, locally (we have a lot of comps and several talented world class Cubers that come out), they assign judging and running. The keep scrambling for the event “staff”. I guess they figure they can lessen concerns about the scrambles by limiting the people involved.



The same in Poland since I've started in January 2014 and I'm sure it was earlier.


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## Logiqx (May 31, 2018)

newtonbase said:


> I'm pretty sure that the judging and scrambling lists have been used in the UK since at least Manchester (February). Possibly earlier.
> The groups are a bit more random now too rather than alphabetical. It saves 4 people saying _yes_ when a runner calls out a first name.



It looks like it started at ABHC 2017 so I've only done the UKC 2017 since it was introduced.

Blimey... it's been over 30 weeks since I last competed!


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## SpartanSailor (May 31, 2018)

Just posted a 3:40 3BLD in the weekly online competition using M2 edges. Had two DNFs and finished strong. Not a PB, but my first sub-4 in the weekly comp.


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## SpartanSailor (Jun 1, 2018)

Multi-BLD question:

Normally, you get 10mins for each cube up to 60 min total, correct? So there’s no real incentive to “speed”through it. Scores are based upon ration of solved/attempted. Tie in that then goes to faster time.... correct?


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## Mike Hughey (Jun 1, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> Multi-BLD question:
> 
> Normally, you get 10mins for each cube up to 60 min total, correct? So there’s no real incentive to “speed”through it. Scores are based upon ration of solved/attempted. Tie in that then goes to faster time.... correct?


Yes, that's true. The only incentive to speed through it is to get that faster time for tiebreaks. Or to make sure you finish, if you happen to be making an attempt that is at the edge of your ability. Like I am right now with 15 or 16 cubes.


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## SpartanSailor (Jun 1, 2018)

I’m thinking of adding MBLD to my events for the upcoming Maryland 2018 comp at the end of June. It may be lame, but I was thinking just to give it a whirl with 2 cubes. If I really get into MBLD, I’ll have to really learn some techniques for organising my various memos... like the room thing I hear about. 

The second day of the comp has all events I don’t do (big blinds, fmc). I was thinking it would be a fun way to get involved on the day 2.


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## SpartanSailor (Jun 1, 2018)

Mike Hughey said:


> Yes, that's true. The only incentive to speed through it is to get that faster time for tiebreaks. Or to make sure you finish, if you happen to be making an attempt that is at the edge of your ability. Like I am right now with 15 or 16 cubes.


Btw, I really like the new updates to the weekly comp page. I’m sure it’s a ton of work, but certainly appreciated.


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## Mike Hughey (Jun 1, 2018)

Oh absolutely you should do that! That gives you plenty of time to really try to memorize them carefully - you can double- or even triple-check your memo to make sure you get it right. A 2/2 multi feels really good - I hope you can get one!


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## newtonbase (Jun 1, 2018)

You should definitely try MBLD @SpartanSailor
Using rooms makes it much easier and it's a simple technique to pick up.


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## mark49152 (Jun 1, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> I’m thinking of adding MBLD to my events for the upcoming Maryland 2018 comp at the end of June. It may be lame, but I was thinking just to give it a whirl with 2 cubes. If I really get into MBLD, I’ll have to really learn some techniques for organising my various memos... like the room thing I hear about.


Go for it, MBLD is great fun.

To get a successful result on your profile, you need to solve at least 2 cubes. Actually the easiest way to do that is to submit 4 cubes but only attempt to solve 2 of them and go for a 2/4 result of 0 points. That way you get 40 minutes instead of 20, and you can use a little of that extra time to choose which 2 cubes are the easiest .


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## JohnnyReggae (Jun 1, 2018)

Have any of you made the move to be fully colour neutral ? It's something I have in my mind all the time, but I don't commit to it. I seem to struggle with dealing with taking some steps backwards before getting on again. What was your experience ?


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## JanW (Jun 1, 2018)

JohnnyReggae said:


> Have any of you made the move to be fully colour neutral ? It's something I have in my mind all the time, but I don't commit to it. I seem to struggle with dealing with taking some steps backwards before getting on again. What was your experience ?


I practiced CN quite a lot at one point. Got to the point where I was quite comfortable with all the colors. Though I was still on average about 2 seconds faster on white cross than on RGBO crosses. Then I switched back to white only and was immediately much faster than I was before the CN practice... I suppose CN practice helped a lot with look ahead, also for white cross. I still occasionally solve other crosses, but not in timed sessions.

Oh, and high there oldies!  Haven't been very active lately, only silently lurking in the shadows. I haven't had much time to practice either. Still, I somehow today managed to pull of this:

avg of 5: 14.90

Time List:
1. (22.07) L B2 R U2 F2 U2 L2 B2 L' D2 L2 F' U L U B F2 U B R'
2. 15.70 F L F2 U2 L2 F2 D2 F2 R' B2 D2 L F' U R' D R' F R2 D
3. 12.81 L' R2 U' L2 D2 B2 D2 R2 B2 L2 F2 U F' R B' D' R' U' B F' R2
4. 16.19 R L' U2 B D2 R D R' L F B' L2 B R2 F' D2 L2 F' U2 R2
5. (12.75) R2 F2 R' U2 B2 R' D2 R2 B2 R U2 F' L' D' L U' F R' B' U2 F'

First sub-15 Ao5!

There's a comp end of month that I potentially could make it to. If I can find time to practice a bit more, I might go make my next attempt at some successful official bld solves.


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## One Wheel (Jun 1, 2018)

JohnnyReggae said:


> Have any of you made the move to be fully colour neutral ? It's something I have in my mind all the time, but I don't commit to it. I seem to struggle with dealing with taking some steps backwards before getting on again. What was your experience ?



I've been color neutral pretty much from the get-go. I think it's worth it for the lucky singles. IIRC my 3x3 pb single was something like a 4-move x-cross on orange. And if course there's stuff on big cubes like pre-made 3x2, 4x2, and even 5x2 blocks.


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## Jason Green (Jun 1, 2018)

JohnnyReggae said:


> Have any of you made the move to be fully colour neutral ? It's something I have in my mind all the time, but I don't commit to it. I seem to struggle with dealing with taking some steps backwards before getting on again. What was your experience ?


If I was starting all over I might start CN. At this point it's so difficult I'm not willing to take several months to get anywhere close to where I am now with white cross. I can do yellow within a few seconds of white, the rest are probably double at least. I still have so many pauses in look ahead I'd rather improve that. If I ever got like sub 12 (?), or to a point I felt like I could not improve any other way, I might consider taking the hit. I'm pretty sure with just look ahead I could get to sub 14 maybe. At this point I can rarely even plan an x-cross, so I wouldn't be able to take advantage of a lot that CN could offer anyway.


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## Lid (Jun 1, 2018)

Not much happening here in hot sweden atm ... (hottest month of May in over 100 years...)

But a a5 Sq-1 PB: (10.946), 15.367, 13.529, 11.967, (20.736[p]) = *13.621 *(old 13.673)

Rest of the a12 was: 15.398, 17.461[p], 17.262[p], 17.485, 19.206[p], 17.387[p], 13.099 = 15.816



Spoiler: scambles



Average of 5: 13.621
1. (10.946) (-2, -3) / (-1, -1) / (3, 0) / (1, -5) / (3, 0) / (0, -3) / (5, 0) / (-3, 0) / (0, -3) / (-3, 0) / (1, -1) / (4, 0)
2. 15.367 (3, 5) / (-5, -2) / (3, -3) / (-1, -4) / (4, -5) / (5, 0) / (-3, -3) / (3, 0) / (1, -1) / (4, 0) / (-2, 0) / (6, 0)
3. 13.529 (-5, 0) / (0, 3) / (2, -1) / (6, -3) / (-3, 0) / (1, -5) / (0, -4) / (-3, -3) / (-5, 0) / (-2, 0) / (2, 0) / (-4, -3)
4. 11.967 (-3, 2) / (0, -3) / (-2, -2) / (0, -3) / (0, -3) / (5, -1) / (0, -2) / (-3, -3) / (-3, 0) / (-1, -5) / (0, -4) / (0, -2)
5. (20.736[p]) (0, -4) / (3, 0) / (-2, -2) / (0, -3) / (0, -3) / (-1, -4) / (-3, -2) / (-3, 0) / (-2, -1) / (-2, 0) / (0, -2) / (-2, -1) / (-2, 0)


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## pglewis (Jun 1, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> I’m thinking of adding MBLD to my events for the upcoming Maryland 2018 comp at the end of June. It may be lame, but I was thinking just to give it a whirl with 2 cubes. If I really get into MBLD, I’ll have to really learn some techniques for organising my various memos... like the room thing I hear about.
> 
> The second day of the comp has all events I don’t do (big blinds, fmc). I was thinking it would be a fun way to get involved on the day 2.



mbld is my next area of focus as well. I have an open-ended goal of getting an official non-zero success by the end of the year and 2/2 wouldn't be lame to me in the least.


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## Selkie (Jun 1, 2018)

Best of luck at the comp this weekend @Logiqx and @Shaky Hands , go get some PBs. Not sure I'll make UKC but really want to but given its the month before Weston-super-Mare Open 2018 I will have to assess whether I have a brownie point deficit!

Took delivery of the Qiyi X-Man design Shadow M 6x6 (Wow, that is a mouth full!!) What an awesome 6x6, feels like a massive step up in technology and given I solve on a Yuxin Red 6x6 M that is saying something. Would recommend this cube to anyone!

I was trying for a sub 3 minute single on film but failed but got this PB mo3 and PB ao5. Both with the same time!

Mean of 3: 3:10.30 (Solves 1-5)
Average of 5: 3:10.30 (Solves 3-5)
1. 3:06.16 
2. (3:45.53) 
3. 3:12.68 
4. 3:12.06 
5. (3:06.15) 

Video of the MO3...


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## One Wheel (Jun 2, 2018)

Selkie said:


> Took delivery of the Qiyi X-Man design Shadow M 6x6 (Wow, that is a mouth full!!) What an awesome 6x6, feels like a massive step up in technology and given I solve on a Yuxin Red 6x6 M that is saying something. Would recommend this cube to anyone!



Mine shipped today, I'm quite excited to get it, but I decided to play the long game and magnetize it myself. I'll have to wait to get some measurements off it before I order magnets. 



Lid said:


> Not much happening here in hot sweden atm ... (hottest month of May in over 100 years...)



Same here in Wisconsin. I heard on the radio this morning that (if I recall correctly) we had the coldest April followed by the warmest May since the late 1800s. We had upper 90°s (F) earlier this week. We might hit 100°F (38°C) once every 2-3 years, and usually that in July. How hot is hot in Sweden? I think of it as cool-temperate.


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## SpartanSailor (Jun 2, 2018)

mark49152 said:


> Go for it, MBLD is great fun.
> 
> To get a successful result on your profile, you need to solve at least 2 cubes. Actually the easiest way to do that is to submit 4 cubes but only attempt to solve 2 of them and go for a 2/4 result of 0 points. That way you get 40 minutes instead of 20, and you can use a little of that extra time to choose which 2 cubes are the easiest .


Interesting... I really like that idea!


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## SpartanSailor (Jun 2, 2018)

Selkie said:


> Best of luck at the comp this weekend @Logiqx and @Shaky Hands , go get some PBs. Not sure I'll make UKC but really want to but given its the month before Weston-super-Mare Open 2018 I will have to assess whether I have a brownie point deficit!
> 
> Took delivery of the Qiyi X-Man design Shadow M 6x6 (Wow, that is a mouth full!!) What an awesome 6x6, feels like a massive step up in technology and given I solve on a Yuxin Red 6x6 M that is saying something. Would recommend this cube to anyone!
> 
> ...


I just received shipping notification on a Shadow M 6x6 ... now I’m really excited.


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## SpartanSailor (Jun 2, 2018)

Can I use different types of cubes for MBDL or do they all have to be the same style/brand?


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## mark49152 (Jun 2, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> Can I use different types of cubes for MBDL or do they all have to be the same style/brand?


They can be different as long as they are individually legal.


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## Logiqx (Jun 2, 2018)

Selkie said:


> Best of luck at the comp this weekend @Logiqx and @Shaky Hands , go get some PBs. Not sure I'll make UKC but really want to but given its the month before Weston-super-Mare Open 2018 I will have to assess whether I have a brownie point deficit!



Thanks Chris. I'm looking forward to some competition solves but I've no idea how I'll perform tomorrow!

Pyra practice is progressing nicely... 6.1-6.2 Ao100s yesterday and today.


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## JanW (Jun 2, 2018)

One Wheel said:


> I heard on the radio this morning that (if I recall correctly) we had the coldest April followed by the warmest May since the late 1800s. We had upper 90°s (F) earlier this week. We might hit 100°F (38°C) once every 2-3 years, and usually that in July. How hot is hot in Sweden? I think of it as cool-temperate.


The Swedes got the leftovers of the hot weather we had in Finland early May. Second week of May 29.6°C was measured. I think that was warmer than it ever got the last couple of summers. Overall it was the hottest month of May ever measured. On a really really hot summer it can reach about 35-36°C in July-August.

Still is warm here. Enjoying the sun, but unfortunately I forgot to bring any cubes to the summer cottage...


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## openseas (Jun 2, 2018)

Well, nothing exciting today, except record breaking a 10 DNF day :-(

5BLD, 1st attempt was off by one T center unsetup error (maening one u slice off at the end of T center = corresponding midges off as a result).

4BLD, triple DNF, 1st attempt was 6min (6:40 ish) tried to use audio memo for center but forgot last letter pair and R2 off during midge.

3BLD, went for speed but dnf’d first 2. Since there would be a 2nd round, was hesitating between ending as a 8 DNF by going anoyher speeed run vs seafe last solve and going for another 3 attempt. Went for the latter option ended up with total of 10 BLD dnf day.

Jeff was eally close at the final, 18s, 25s (5s pause), 19s, but all off by one cycle (executed reverse comm). He had 8 DNF as well (missed both 4 & 5 BLD)

I would guess this would be a WR DNF/day from one family.


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## SpartanSailor (Jun 2, 2018)

I wonder if any family has had 18 DNFs in a single competition before?


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## cubeshepherd (Jun 2, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> I wonder if any family has had 18 DNFs in a single competition before?


I almost had that many DNF's just by myself last weekend I had 11 DNF's total across all events, so not to far away from 18


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## openseas (Jun 3, 2018)

cubeshepherd said:


> I almost had that many DNF's just by myself last weekend I had 11 DNF's total across all events, so not to far away from 18



I had a 11DNF day from just 4 events


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## cubeshepherd (Jun 3, 2018)

openseas said:


> I had a 11DNF day from just 4 events


Sorry to hear that. I did not realize that you got that many DNF's out of the 18. Hopefully it is better for you next time...And Jeff gets more DNF's then you


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## xyzzy (Jun 3, 2018)

Selkie said:


> Video of the MO3...


Here's a Cool Alg for the last two centres case in the video thumbnail (5:29 in the video): x 3L U r' U' 3L' r

You can skip the 3L' r at the end (which makes this just four moves long!) if you do a z rotation and go straight into edge pairing.


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## Old Tom (Jun 3, 2018)

Just butting into this thread, because I am indeed an Older Cuber. I will turn 80 later this month, learned to solve via LBL in 1981, when I was already 42, with help from David Singmaster's classisc booklet. Never tried to speedsolve (so don't ask me my times)! I would pick up the cube again every year or so, just to see "if I could still do it." I always could, using a slightly unothodox method of my own design for the last layer that needs ony four algs (edge O, edge P, corner P, corner O). 

Just this last April stumbled on this site, and became motivated to learn F2L. Love it, now doing it completely intuitively, but have no look-ahead (yet), so just enjoying it w/o aiming for speed. Still staying with my last layer method, zero desire to learn all those algs.

I wonder how many of us "geezers" are around?


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## One Wheel (Jun 3, 2018)

Old Tom said:


> I wonder how many of us "geezers" are around?



Welcome! I don't think there are many that have been going as long as you have, but you've come to the right place to find the few around. You have almost 50 years on me, but I'm one of the younger semi-regular contributors to and beneficiaries of this thread. Have you experimented with anything other than the standard 3x3? Blindfolded solving is, as I'm sure you've noticed, rather popular around here. I personally enjoy big cubes (5x5, 6x6, and 7x7).


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## openseas (Jun 3, 2018)

Old Tom said:


> Just butting into this thread, because I am indeed an Older Cuber. I will turn 80 later this month, learned to solve via LBL in 1981, when I was already 42, with help from David Singmaster's classisc booklet. Never tried to speedsolve (so don't ask me my times)! I would pick up the cube again every year or so, just to see "if I could still do it." I always could, using a slightly unothodox method of my own design for the last layer that needs ony four algs (edge O, edge P, corner P, corner O).
> 
> Just this last April stumbled on this site, and became motivated to learn F2L. Love it, now doing it completely intuitively, but have no look-ahead (yet), so just enjoying it w/o aiming for speed. Still staying with my last layer method, zero desire to learn all those algs.
> 
> I wonder how many of us "geezers" are around?




Welcome! In real competition, even late 20s consider themselves as oldies but not here  
My favorite cuber (& also role model) is Hideki Tomoyori who has the oldest (in age) official blondsolve record (he was 81, 2 years ago).


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## Mike Hughey (Jun 3, 2018)

Old Tom said:


> Just butting into this thread, because I am indeed an Older Cuber. I will turn 80 later this month, learned to solve via LBL in 1981, when I was already 42, with help from David Singmaster's classic booklet.



While I'm not as old as you (I learned to solve when I was 18), I nonetheless also learned in 1981, so I consider myself something of a "cubing geezer". I bought the first Scientific American magazine that talked about the cube, and read just enough to get the idea of what a commutator is (but without actually learning how to do one) before going out to buy a cube. I bought it and spent 2 weeks playing with it doing repetitive moves until I had several algorithms I could use to solve it, then scrambled it. About a week later, I solved it for the first time.

I got back into solving in late 2006, and got truly hooked when I had my first successful blindfolded solve in March of 2007. Since then I've been completely hooked. My favorite events are the blindfolded ones (like many others here) - I hope you might try it someday!

I'm one of the older ones on this thread. Mats Bergsten is almost exactly between you and me in age, and he is really into blindfolded solving too! Mats has probably been the oldest truly active poster on this website; perhaps you can take his place!


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## newtonbase (Jun 3, 2018)

Welcome @Old Tom. It would be great if you could get to a competition or two.
Your username reminds me of my younger days. I'd always stop off for a pint of Old Tom on pub crawls with my friends. It was a pretty dangerous brew and the pub that served it wasn't too safe either but tradition dictated we our actions


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## SpartanSailor (Jun 3, 2018)

openseas said:


> Welcome! In real competition, even late 20s consider themselves as oldies but not here
> My favorite cuber (& also role model) is Hideki Tomoyori who has the oldest (in age) official blondsolve record (he was 81, 2 years ago).


I know... a local couple guys just graduated from college and they claim to be the “old guys”... then I kindly remind them that my piece of paper from my college days is older than they are. Hahahaha. 

Welcome @Old Tom


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## Old Tom (Jun 3, 2018)

Thx for all the nice comments to my post. No, I am unlikely to try blindfold, am in awe of Hideki. Mike, I also read those early Sci Am articles (think by Douglas Hofstader (sp), subbing for Martin Gardner). My last step, permuting LL corners, is either a commutation or a conjugation, will have to dust off my notes about the definitions of those. A 7x7 = 14 step move, which I can do in my sleep after 37 years.

It would be fun to go to a competition, will have to find time away from duplicate bridge, where I am a club director, teacher, Life Master many times over. I live in the Tidewater Va. area, pretty rural. Nearest city is Richmond.

Did I mention that I am profoundly deaf, since I was a kid? Us deafies have powers of focus and unimpeded concentration. A big help with cubing!

Will try to hang around.

Tom


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## SpartanSailor (Jun 3, 2018)

Old Tom said:


> Thx for all the nice comments to my post. No, I am unlikely to try blindfold, am in awe of Hideki. Mike, I also read those early Sci Am articles (think by Douglas Hofstader (sp), subbing for Martin Gardner). My last step, permuting LL corners, is either a commutation or a conjugation, will have to dust off my notes about the definitions of those. A 7x7 = 14 step move, which I can do in my sleep after 37 years.
> 
> It would be fun to go to a competition, will have to find time away from duplicate bridge, where I am a club director, teacher, Life Master many times over. I live in the Tidewater Va. area, pretty rural. Nearest city is Richmond.
> 
> ...


Well, I’m up in Arlington and would enjoy seeing you at a competition. If sign language is your primary mode of communication, then we can chat... I’m not Deaf, but can sign. 

Again... welcome to the “oldies thread”.


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## Old Tom (Jun 4, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> Well, I’m up in Arlington and would enjoy seeing you at a competition. If sign language is your primary mode of communication, then we can chat... I’m not Deaf, but can sign.
> 
> Again... welcome to the “oldies thread”.


Hey, neat. I do sign, though my primary mode is speaking for myself, and lipreading best I can. But, anyone who can sign is a big plus for me. (I lived in N Va, Falls Church, Burke for 40 yrs.)


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## Mike Hughey (Jun 4, 2018)

Heh. We're all from the same place. I grew up in King George, VA, in the Northern Neck. And I went to undergraduate at William and Mary in Williamsburg - that's where I bought and learned to solve my first Rubik's cube.

And Tom, you should really try blindfolded - those concentration powers might make you awesome at it! Not to mention that one of the toughest things about blindfolded solving is learning to deal with the audio distractions, which you just might be pretty good at.


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## Old Tom (Jun 4, 2018)

Mike Hughey said:


> Heh. We're all from the same place. I grew up in King George, VA, in the Northern Neck. And I went to undergraduate at William and Mary in Williamsburg - that's where I bought and learned to solve my first Rubik's cube.
> 
> And Tom, you should really try blindfolded - those concentration powers might make you awesome at it! Not to mention that one of the toughest things about blindfolded solving is learning to deal with the audio distractions, which you just might be pretty good at.


Hmm. Might give blindfold a shot, though it seems like a huge effort. Cubing mainly now for relaxation.

KG, Northern Neck? I am retired in Mathews, Middle Peninsula.


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## Mike Hughey (Jun 4, 2018)

Old Tom said:


> Hmm. Might give blindfold a shot, though it seems like a huge effort. Cubing mainly now for relaxation.
> 
> KG, Northern Neck? I am retired in Mathews, Middle Peninsula.


Blindfolded does take a bit of commitment, but it's not nearly as hard as you might think. Find a good guide and you might surprise yourself how quicky you might learn it. I hope someone else here might recommend a good modern guide - I learned too long ago for my recommendations to be worth much.

I seem to remember that when I was growing up, there was some metric by which, at the time, Mathews County was the smallest county in Virginia, and King George was second smallest. But I don't remember how that was measured.


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## SpartanSailor (Jun 4, 2018)

@Old Tom 

If you’re are interested, I used this video:





I think the young man does a good job explaining it and covers the concept quite well. 

I only started to try blindfolded solving back in January. I was surprised how quickly I was able onpick it up. 

Just in case you choose to give it a chance.


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## Selkie (Jun 4, 2018)

@One Wheel - I have not even tried magnetising a 3x3 yet, I really should do to be fair. I guess motivation is less now than ever given the range of factory M cubes on the market.

@SpartanSailor - Let me know what you think of the Shadow M when you receive it!

@Old Tom - Welcome to the thread. I too, like @Mike Hughey and yourself have been solving since 1981 but I was 11 years old when the cube was released. Great to hear you have been pushing your learning with F2L. You are in the right place here for motivation! 

.....

At last managed to get the elusive sub 3m 6x6 on film...


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## SpartanSailor (Jun 4, 2018)

Selkie said:


> @One Wheel - I have not even tried magnetising a 3x3 yet, I really should do to be fair. I guess motivation is less now than ever given the range of factory M cubes on the market.
> 
> @SpartanSailor - Let me know what you think of the Shadow M when you receive it!
> 
> ...


I won’t be as fast as you! But it should be here any day now... I’m excited For it to arrive


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## SpartanSailor (Jun 4, 2018)

Selkie said:


> @One Wheel - I have not even tried magnetising a 3x3 yet, I really should do to be fair. I guess motivation is less now than ever given the range of factory M cubes on the market.
> 
> @SpartanSailor - Let me know what you think of the Shadow M when you receive it!
> 
> ...


I noticed you did blue on bottom. Do you normally or was that just how it worked out? How do you do your edges? I start by doing all white (I use white cross and they’re easier to spot) then I do the next four still using freeslice. I have to align my centres for the final four edges.... or at least when doing 5x5.


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## Logiqx (Jun 4, 2018)

Logiqx said:


> Thanks Chris. I'm looking forward to some competition solves but I've no idea how I'll perform tomorrow!
> 
> Pyra practice is progressing nicely... 6.1-6.2 Ao100s yesterday and today.



Attending a competition again was nice and it was great to see people but my results were disappointing after such a long time waiting to compete. I did 3 events yesterday and went in slightly emphasising Pyra over OH over 3x3:

3x3 was the first event and tbh, I struggled with it all day; warming up and competing. I'm always affected by dim lighting and I was struggling to see colours which meant zero look-ahead and the feeling of hunting for edges like I do on a 4x4! My daily Ao12 is usually sub-15 so official 18s averages are pretty dire. Never mind... it wasn't my main focus.

My first 3 solves in round 1 of OH went badly due to F2L or OLL mistakes, probably due to the competition environment and previous OH fails. I was feeling relaxed for the second round but I dropped the cube during a RUD LL alg on the first solve and couldn't work out how to salvage the F2L. The 1:00.10 for that solve was because I tried to stop the timer on 1:00.00 which with hindsight I should have just DNF'd. The second solve was really 24.46 but officially 29.46 because of the judges handwriting (I read it as 24.46) and solves 3 and 5 were both 28's. Solve 4 would have been faster than the 24.46 (even another 28 would have been a 28 average) except for the brain fart in the last turns of OLL (back to cross + F2L) so it was 38.20 and with that a 27.22 average turned into a 32.09. The pressure will be on the Peterborough - just 1 round of OH for me with my next chance to compete at the end of October (4 months later).

A sub-7 official average for Pyra should be relatively easy with 5 "typical" scrambles and a sub-6 average doable with 2 or 3 nice scrambles. Another brain fart in what would the been the fastest solve of my first round turned a 6.71 average into 7.35. The second round consisted of the most shocking scrambles imaginable (no centre+edge blocks), adding over a second to every solve and resulting in a 7.88 average. 14th overall wasn't too bad and I only missed 3rd round by 2 places.

Summary - Pyra was ok but could have been better without the hideous scrambles in round 2, OH solves were solid in the second round but a momentary lapse cost me a 27.22 average, 3x3 was just not happening for me yesterday.

*EDIT*: Be sure to pick up your GoPro and record the timer display after your solve(s). If there is a query about times the delegate is allowed to use it as evidence. I recorded all of my solves but not the timer itself so a 24 turned into a 29. My bad for mis-interpreting the handwriting on the scorecard and not recording the timer. :/


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## Jason Green (Jun 4, 2018)

Logiqx said:


> Attending a competition again was nice and it was great to see people but my results were disappointing after such a long time waiting to compete. I did 3 events yesterday and went in slightly emphasising Pyra over OH over 3x3:
> 
> 3x3 was the first event and tbh, I struggled with it all day; warming up and competing. I'm always affected by dim lighting and I was struggling to see colours which meant zero look-ahead and the feeling of hunting for edges like I do on a 4x4! My daily Ao12 is usually sub-15 so official 18s averages are pretty dire. Never mind... it wasn't my main focus.
> 
> ...


That's a good reminder! Not only do I need to make sure and record the time, but I need to pay close attention when I initial period. I've caught myself initialing and then thinking, did I even make sure that was right?

Also welcome @Old Tom! Hope you get to compete sometime it's really fun!


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## Logiqx (Jun 4, 2018)

Since this was the only half-decent result this weekend, I've uploaded my 7.35 Pyraminx average.

Solve 3 should really have been around 4 seconds but I forgot what I was doing after the first turn, blowing a 6.71 average.

Pauses / fumbles during the solves were just due to comp nerves and to be expected.


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## Jason Green (Jun 4, 2018)

Logiqx said:


> Since this was the only half-decent result this weekend, I've uploaded my 7.35 Pyraminx average.
> 
> Solve 3 should really have been around 4 seconds but I forgot what I was doing after the first turn, blowing a 6.71 average.
> 
> Pauses / fumbles during the solves were just due to comp nerves and to be expected.


Impressive I am like 20 seconds on that... or I was when I remembered how to do it.  I like the guy taking a break to scratch his nose on the first solve in the background.


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## Old Tom (Jun 4, 2018)

Jason Green said:


> That's a good reminder! Not only do I need to make sure and record the time, but I need to pay close attention when I initial period. I've caught myself initialing and then thinking, did I even make sure that was right?
> 
> Also welcome @Old Tom! Hope you get to compete sometime it's really fun!


Jason, I am very curious about the competitions, and will be looking for one to attend. Especially if there's an award for the slowest cuber!


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## SpartanSailor (Jun 5, 2018)

@Selkie my Shadow M 6x6 arrived today. Loving it! Only did one solve so far and can’t wait to get this broken in...

Edit: I was able to get a few solves in for the weekly comp. I’ve only done 6x6 once previously in that because it took my 25 mins! Lol. Today, I got all screwed up on my first and took the DNF. Then I still mabnaged a 9-something average with 6:49.93 new PB by a margin so large it’s better to just consider this a “new era”. Lol

Really enjoy the Shadow M. If the Red M is much better, I’d be shocked. But at twice the price, I’m glad I got the Shadow M. I’ll definitely do 6x6 more often ow that it’s not a half hour for one solve.


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## SpartanSailor (Jun 5, 2018)

@Logiqx @Jason Green I’ve been burned by the poor penmanship of a judge before too. Now, I check closely and will ask the judge to write more neatly if I think it could be misread.


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## newtonbase (Jun 5, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> @Logiqx @Jason Green I’ve been burned by the poor penmanship of a judge before too. Now, I check closely and will ask the judge to write more neatly if I think it could be misread.


I've had it the other way and been given a big PB single. Luckily they don't tend to want proof when you ask for a slower time.
Can't sleep so got up and did a bit of 3BLD. Got a 1:32.64 Mo3 on my first 3 solves which I think is a massive PB. It was around 1:52 before IIRC.


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## Selkie (Jun 5, 2018)

@SpartanSailor - I do blue cross on nearly all solves. I am a bit more colour neutral for OH where I probably do 50% blue crosses and a mixture of others.

As for my edge strategy that is a good question. I tend to pair up what I can see with two exceptions. I have a bias towards pairing up blue edges first, especially if I do not see an easier alternative. I also have a bias to trying to pair as much before a z2. I also try and store the first four edges in the same layer (U or D) so when those 4 are complete I do not need to z2 again and have better lookahead. Like you I correct centres for last 4 edges. A lot of my strategy comes from Feleks' big cube videos which are definitely worth a watch ... https://www.cubeskills.com/categories/big-cubes

@Logiqx - That is really unlucky mate, especially the mis-written time. I unfortunately see that quite a lot. Any backup videos help indeed. Hopefully your nerves will be less at Peterborough mate.


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## muchacho (Jun 5, 2018)

I was averaging 28 and was quite pissed off, and then for a brief moment I was fast (or quite lucky).

OH Ao12 PB: 23.324 (was 23.625 from last week)



Spoiler



11962 05-jun-2018 16:43:47 00:24.615 R2 D2 R2 L2 D' R2 U2 L2 D L2 U' L' D' U2 R2 F L U' R D' R' U'
11961 05-jun-2018 16:43:02 00:25.615 F2 R2 D' L2 D2 U R2 U' B2 U' F2 R' B2 R B R U B F L2 U
11960 05-jun-2018 16:42:17 00:21.279 B2 R2 D2 F2 L2 F2 U R2 D2 L2 U' B U' F' D2 U2 B2 R L2 U' R
11959 05-jun-2018 16:41:30 00:22.894 D2 L2 U' L2 D' L2 D F2 D2 U R2 B' L B2 F' U F2 U2 R' B' R' U'
11958 05-jun-2018 16:40:43 00:22.943 F2 U' L2 B2 R2 D B2 U F2 R2 U' F' D2 L' B F2 D' F2 D' U' R' D2
11957 05-jun-2018 16:39:59 00:22.271 U B2 F2 L2 U' F2 D R2 U' L2 U F L2 B2 D F' U B' L' D F U'
11956 05-jun-2018 16:39:16 00:22.838 R2 F2 U B2 L2 F2 L2 D R2 F2 D' L U2 B L2 D2 U' L' U2 F
11955 05-jun-2018 16:38:32 00:25.439 L2 U R2 F2 R2 U' F2 D F2 L2 F2 R B2 R F' U' R B2 L' B D U'
11954 05-jun-2018 16:37:45 00:27.134 U2 R2 B2 U' B2 D L2 F2 U' L' F' U2 B2 U' B R D U' R B U'
11953 05-jun-2018 16:37:03 00:20.601 B2 D2 F2 D2 R2 B2 R2 U' B2 D' L2 B R2 U' L2 B D' R2 F D2 L' U2
11952 05-jun-2018 16:36:21 00:24.751 B2 U R2 B2 L2 U' L2 U' L2 B2 D2 B L F' U' F2 L U2 R' B' L2 U'
11951 05-jun-2018 16:35:44 00:19.880 R2 U2 L2 U' R2 D B2 L2 U B2 D' R U' F D2 L B R' U2 F' R U


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## SpartanSailor (Jun 5, 2018)

Selkie said:


> @SpartanSailor - I do blue cross on nearly all solves. I am a bit more colour neutral for OH where I probably do 50% blue crosses and a mixture of others.
> 
> As for my edge strategy that is a good question. I tend to pair up what I can see with two exceptions. I have a bias towards pairing up blue edges first, especially if I do not see an easier alternative. I also have a bias to trying to pair as much before a z2. I also try and store the first four edges in the same layer (U or D) so when those 4 are complete I do not need to z2 again and have better lookahead. Like you I correct centres for last 4 edges. A lot of my strategy comes from Feleks' big cube videos which are definitely worth a watch ... https://www.cubeskills.com/categories/big-cubes
> 
> @Logiqx - That is really unlucky mate, especially the mis-written time. I unfortunately see that quite a lot. Any backup videos help indeed. Hopefully your nerves will be less at Peterborough mate.


I’ve learned a lot from Feliks videos too. I when working the last 4 edges, I find it useful to stick a solved edge into both rear slots—preferably the correct two edges and solve the f2l pair at the same time if I can see all the parts quickly enough. Then I only have the front two slots to work with for the final edge pairings. 

It’s fun to play around for sure. Lots going on with the 6x6.


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## MarcelP (Jun 6, 2018)

Ok guys, this has been driving me nuts. The 4x4 OLL parity alg *r U2 x r U2 r U2 r' U2 l U2 r' U2 r U2 r' U2 r' *that I use should also work on the last 3 edges on a 5x5. But when I do it I get on three sides different colors.. How do you do this alg on a 5x5?


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## One Wheel (Jun 6, 2018)

MarcelP said:


> Ok guys, this has been driving me nuts. The 4x4 OLL parity alg *r U2 x r U2 r U2 r' U2 l U2 r' U2 r U2 r' U2 r' *that I use should also work on the last 3 edges on a 5x5. But when I do it I get on three sides different colors.. How do you do this alg on a 5x5?



r U2 x r U2 r U2 r' U2 l U2 r' U2 r U2 *3r'* U2 r'


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## MarcelP (Jun 6, 2018)

One Wheel said:


> r U2 x r U2 r U2 r' U2 l U2 r' U2 r U2 *3r'* U2 r'


OMG, you are a life saver! I always did

r U2 x r U2 r U2 r' U2 *3l* U2 r' U2 r U2 *r'* U2 r'


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## Sergey (Jun 6, 2018)

MarcelP said:


> Ok guys, this has been driving me nuts. The 4x4 OLL parity alg *r U2 x r U2 r U2 r' U2 l U2 r' U2 r U2 r' U2 r' *that I use should also work on the last 3 edges on a 5x5. But when I do it I get on three sides different colors.. How do you do this alg on a 5x5?


I'm using:

Rw U2 x Rw U2 Rw U2 *3Rw'* U2 Lw U2 Rw' U2 Rw U2 Rw' U2 Rw'
with lefty-righty flicks -
Rw U2 x Rw U2 Rw U2' 3Rw' U2 Lw U2 Rw' U2' Rw U2 Rw' U2' Rw'

In case of yau5 it is needed to fix cross edge after.

BTW, http://meep.cubing.net/ - some cool algs for 4x4 and 5x5.


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## SpartanSailor (Jun 6, 2018)

Sergey said:


> I'm using:
> 
> Rw U2 x Rw U2 Rw U2 *3Rw'* U2 Lw U2 Rw' U2 Rw U2 Rw' U2 Rw'
> with lefty-righty flicks -
> ...


I always make sure the edge parity (if I can’t avoid it) appears on an edge from the side opposite my cross. For me, I use white cross so place the edge party in a yellow edge piece. This way, I don’t have to remix my cross piece. I also wait to fix my edge parity until after my F2L is complete...


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## xyzzy (Jun 6, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> I always make sure the edge parity (if I can’t avoid it) appears on an edge from the side opposite my cross. For me, I use white cross so place the edge party in a yellow edge piece. This way, I don’t have to remix my cross piece. I also wait to fix my edge parity until after my F2L is complete...


For odd cubes (5 and 7) or even cubes (6) or both? There's a minor advantage in using it for Yau5 on 555 (you get to avoid a cube rotation sometimes) and for redux on even cubes (combining it with OLL parity), but it seems useless for redux on odd cubes.


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## SpartanSailor (Jun 6, 2018)

xyzzy said:


> For odd cubes (5 and 7) or even cubes (6) or both? There's a minor advantage in using it for Yau5 on 555 (you get to avoid a cube rotation sometimes) and for redux on even cubes (combining it with OLL parity), but it seems useless for redux on odd cubes.


I’m not sure I understand your question... bear in mind, that even though I “can” solve the bigger cubes I’m not especially “speed” cubing when doing so. I don’t focus on them, but have come to enjoy them much more with better hardware.

Anyway, I essentially solve them all the same way (555,666,777 that is). I do centers (top/bottom then around the other four in order). Then I do my first 8 edges generally using freeslice. However, I track my white edges first and store them on bottom out of the way. If I see another color edge forming easily, I’ll do it, but normally do 4 white centers first. Then, I do the next four and store them on top. At this point, I solve the cross and usually the back to f2l pairs leavening the two front slots open and two unsolved edges on top now. Then, I just pair up those edges. If a parity forms, I just continue into the remaining f2l pairs before addressing the parity.

For 555 and 777, I’ll just fix parity before doing my OLL. Then, OLL and PLL. Done.

For 666, I’ve noticed that I can get a edge parity AND OLL parity AND PLL parity. If I were smart and motivated, I would learn new parity algs to solve each edge parity condition more efficiently and some of those will fix OLL parity too. But I’m not. I’m still solving my edges with essentially the 444 OLL parity alg. It’s the same one someone else referred to earlier with righty and lefty flicks. Then, if I have OLL parity, I just do it again, but with 3R moves for all the R moves. If I get PLL parity, same... I do the same as I would for 444 except is the inner 2 layers instead of the inner single layer.

Make sense?


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## One Wheel (Jun 6, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> For 666, I’ve noticed that I can get a edge parity AND OLL parity AND PLL parity. If I were smart and motivated, I would learn new parity algs to solve each edge parity condition more efficiently and some of those will fix OLL parity too. But I’m not. I’m still solving my edges with essentially the 444 OLL parity alg. It’s the same one someone else referred to earlier with righty and lefty flicks.



I'm color neutral for everything except megaminx and BLD, but on 6x6 it's probably worth it to force apparent edge parity to an opposite cross color and then finish f2l. At that point you can easily see whether you need to swap inner wings or outer wings. Swapping inner wings is the same as the 4x4 parity alg, except with inner slices instead of outer blocks, and U2 Lw Rw' on the end. Faster than executing 2 parity algs.


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## xyzzy (Jun 7, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> For 555 and 777, I’ll just fix parity before doing my OLL. Then, OLL and PLL. Done.


Okay, going from your description of how you do two F2L pairs before finishing edge pairing (which is like Yau5/Hoya5), leaving parity to a last layer edge isn't too bad. But also:



One Wheel said:


> on 6x6 it's probably worth it to force apparent edge parity to an opposite cross color and then finish f2l.


If it's already on an LL edge, sure, leave it to OLL to fix it so you can avoid edge parity + OLL parity. But otherwise, you need to do a slice-flip-slice to force it, and that's what makes it a questionable strategy. You need to make sure you're not replacing something slow (edge parity + OLL parity) with something even slower (depends on how fast slice-flip-slice is for you).

This is less relevant if you're "more" colour neutral. If you're fixed-cross, you have only four edges to leave parity on. If you're dual CN (e.g. white and yellow), then you have eight choices. If you're full CN, then you have all twelve choices and there's never a need to force parity to be on one colour. I'm white/yellow dual CN, so for 666 I leave parity on a white/yellow edge if it happens, but otherwise I fix it ASAP.


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## SpartanSailor (Jun 7, 2018)

xyzzy said:


> Okay, going from your description of how you do two F2L pairs before finishing edge pairing (which is like Yau5/Hoya5), leaving parity to a last layer edge isn't too bad. But also:
> 
> 
> If it's already on an LL edge, sure, leave it to OLL to fix it so you can avoid edge parity + OLL parity. But otherwise, you need to do a slice-flip-slice to force it, and that's what makes it a questionable strategy. You need to make sure you're not replacing something slow (edge parity + OLL parity) with something even slower (depends on how fast slice-flip-slice is for you).
> ...


I see...

I learned that first 2 pairs in rear slots trick from trying Yau 5. I don’t do the cross part, but like that little trick to reduce where I am looking for the final 4 edges.

I wont blow my time trying to force an edge parity if one magically happens in the last 4 edges. However, if at other points in the solve there is an edge parity, I fix it on the fly. For example if on 555 there the middle and one one the wings are together but flipped, I’ll fix that with slice-flip-slice, which is pretty quick for me. 

When I buckle down and try to improve on the bigger cubes I’ll figure out what’s more efficient and do it that way. 

I just did a 666 solve and realize (not news to me) that I’m not very efficient. I do a LOT of edge flips throughout the edge pairing stage.


----------



## pglewis (Jun 7, 2018)

My Yuxin HuangLong M stickerless finally arrived yesterday and my early impressions match what I've read. I'm a fan of the Little Magic and I still go through spells where I really enjoy doing practice solves on it for days despite some fatal flaws that preclude me from maining it for 3x3, even with magnets. It immediately made me wonder what Yuxin could do with a modern flagship-caliber 3x3 so I was looking forward to this one. 

I'm exclusively stickerless and magnetic for my 3x3s these days. The stickerless shades are great to me, relatively close to the Valk 3's shades with a more vivid red and a darker green; the contrast looks good to my eyes. GTS2M is pretty much my main and the shades on the Moyu look slightly "washed out" in comparison. Tensions were sane and even out of the box, if maybe a little tight, with no noticeable spring noise. The magnets do their job without making me think about them. 

I've developed a taste for fast puzzles and low turning resistance for 3x3. For silicone I currently only use Lubicle Speedy, plus DNM as needed. Anything heavier as a piece-lube, including Silk, tends to risk slowing up for me especially during the winter months when it gets very dry here. The Yuxin was quite dry out of the box so I gave it a little Speedy and DNM after a few experimental turns. It didn't require much break-in to start feeling the puzzle's reported speed, just a handful of solves. 

Cutting isn't quite the effortlessness of my GTS2Ms, though it seems to have a wide tension range and tolerates rather loose tension for me without sacrificing much stability. Corner cutting improved with a lower tension than shipped but I haven't experimented on a sweet-spot yet. It does bring the speed and I suspect the design may be resistant to gumming up. I'm used to light turning and it's not out of control at all for me but I may have to adjust slightly vs. my GTS2s. I haven't tried a 3bld session with it yet. 

Overall: I can't fully know the performance until I've solved in anger in some longer sessions and done some 3bld but my instincts are that I could main this just as easily as my SCS Valk 3M or factory GTS2Ms. All three are excellent puzzles with their own strengths. This one has its own character, they all feel different and I think I could trust any of 'em in an official 3x3 solve depending on my mood at the time.


----------



## Logiqx (Jun 7, 2018)

Talking about new puzzles has anyone else got an X-Man Galaxy V2 M? I received mine earlier this week and I love it!

It took a few solves to get used to the smaller size but overall it is much nicer to use and turn accurately than the X-Man Galaxy M. I'm still something of a noob at mega but my PBs are falling and I'm more inclined to practice on nice hardware.

Who else is on CubePB? I'm using it to store my PBs so they are easy to see at a glance - https://cubepb.com/user/52933

Edit: I also had a 10.20 on 3x3 yesterday... first solve of the day and poor recognition meant I didn't capitalise on Sune + PLL skip.


----------



## Jason Green (Jun 7, 2018)

Logiqx said:


> Talking about new puzzles has anyone else got an X-Man Galaxy V2 M? I received mine earlier this week and I love it!
> 
> It took a few solves to get used to the smaller size but overall it is much nicer to use and turn accurately than the X-Man Galaxy M. I'm still something of a noob at mega but my PBs are falling and I'm more inclined to practice on nice hardware.
> 
> ...


I'm on there and follow you already. Is there a way to see who follows you? I still haven't put in all my times.

https://cubepb.com/user/79765


----------



## Logiqx (Jun 7, 2018)

Jason Green said:


> I'm in
> 
> I'm on there and follow you already. Is there a way to see who follows you? I still haven't put in all my times.
> 
> https://cubepb.com/user/79765



I don't think it' possible to see your followers but you can tell how many you have using the search.

Search for Jason and it will list all Jason's and their total followers. It says you have 1 follower which i can tell you is me.


----------



## SpartanSailor (Jun 8, 2018)

Logiqx said:


> Talking about new puzzles has anyone else got an X-Man Galaxy V2 M? I received mine earlier this week and I love it!
> 
> It took a few solves to get used to the smaller size but overall it is much nicer to use and turn accurately than the X-Man Galaxy M. I'm still something of a noob at mega but my PBs are falling and I'm more inclined to practice on nice hardware.
> 
> ...


I’m on there! I’m storing my PBs on CubePB too.


----------



## SpartanSailor (Jun 8, 2018)

Jason Green said:


> I'm in
> 
> I'm on there and follow you already. Is there a way to see who follows you? I still haven't put in all my times.
> 
> https://cubepb.com/user/79765


You have at least two followers now...


----------



## Jason Green (Jun 8, 2018)

Logiqx said:


> I don't think it' possible to see your followers but you can tell how many you have using the search.
> 
> Search for Jason and it will list all Jason's and their total followers. It says you have 1 follower which i can tell you is me.


That's cool thanks for the tip! I have no idea how I managed to type "I'm in" before the quoted text on my last post. Haha


----------



## Sergey (Jun 9, 2018)

Received Shadow M. This is my first 6x6, so I can't compare it, but it is amazing (not quite correct comparison, but it is very similar to WuShuang). And it gets better and better from solve to solve. After a few solves it was required to lube the core in my case because of squeaks. Factory videos about this issue and how to set it up (I disassembled 12 center and 4 edge pieces in order to lube the core easily):











BTW, after 14 solves my PB is 10:38 .


----------



## h2f (Jun 9, 2018)

Intresting they got Maru to lube. I would buy one but havent seen it in the shops.


----------



## Sergey (Jun 9, 2018)

h2f said:


> Intresting they got Maru to lube. I would buy one but havent seen it in the shops.


I bought one from local toys store specialized in cubing. But it is expensive - about $10 for 10ml. Not yet tried (except for shadow's core). The method is similar to one cyotheking was used to lube 5x5 with high viscosity silicone (Maru core lube in blue bottle is high viscosity):


----------



## h2f (Jun 9, 2018)

Sergey said:


> But it is expensive - about $10 for 10ml.



I guess the lubes from shops like Cubicle or SCS cost the same. But this Maru is great.


----------



## SpartanSailor (Jun 10, 2018)

Non-cubing related news... we are in the midst of a move and it’s a serious annoyance. We have always had movers in the past, but this local move is just a chore.

I have been enjoying solving my new Shadow M 6x6. I’m not likely to make it in any competitions, but it’s still fun. To be honest, I don’t see any competitions in the area that have 6x6 as an event anyway. 

My next comp is next weekend on the 16th. I’ll be doing OH for the first time and it will be slow. I only hope to make the time limit. I’m also doing 3x3, 4x4, 2x2 and pyramid. In fact, Mega is the only event being hosted that I’m not competing. I haven’t been able to practice much, so don’t have much in the way of goals or hopes—aside from making cutoff for OH. I would like to get a nice sub-20 single with 3x3. That’s absolutely doable at this point, but we shall see if the competition nerves allow for it. 4x4 practice has been frustrating. I feel like I’m getting better, yet still stuck in the mid 1:20s. The cutoff this weekend is 1:15. On average, I get sub-1:15 about 1 in 5 or 1 in 6 solves. So, there’s a remote chance that I could do that, but I’m not getting my hopes up. 

No BLD this weekend—haven’t been able to practice that much at all lately. Still working the FU/BD algs for M2 when I get a few minutes. After this next week when we finish the move, i’ll Have more time to get some extra BLD practice leading up to my next comp with BLD.

EDIT: Managed a little 3x3 and 4x4 timed practice. Snuck a 19.14 PB ao5 in (sneaking past my previous PB of 19.26) and a PB ao5 for 4x4 of 1:17.06–my first sub-1:20 ao5.


----------



## muchacho (Jun 10, 2018)

Some OH PBs, today I was much faster and I have no clue why.

Single: 16.447 (was 16.903)
Ao5: 21.729 (21.895)
Ao12: 23.322 (23.324)
Mo100: 25.320 (26.190)
Ao100: 25.230 (26.056)



Spoiler



12557 10-jun-2018 17:06:17 00:23.880 U' L2 U B2 D' F2 U F2 D2 R2 U2 B' R' U' L B2 D' R' L' B2
12556 10-jun-2018 17:05:34 00:25.951 U2 L2 D' U' B2 L2 D R2 D' F2 U2 R U R2 L' U2 F' R L2 B' U'
12555 10-jun-2018 17:04:51 00:24.406 B2 D L2 U2 R2 B2 D F2 U2 R2 F2 L F' L2 U L D2 B' U' B D' R'
12554 10-jun-2018 17:04:10 00:21.486 R2 D' B2 R2 F2 L2 U2 F2 D' U2 B' D F D' F' U R' B' D R' U'
12553 10-jun-2018 17:03:30 00:23.294 L2 F2 R2 U L2 D2 B2 D' R2 B2 U2 R F' D B2 D2 L B2 R B F' U'
12552 10-jun-2018 17:02:47 00:23.487 D' L2 U B2 F2 D L2 B2 L2 B2 L' B' R2 L2 U B R U2 R2 D U
12551 10-jun-2018 17:01:52 00:30.358 D R2 F2 U B2 L2 B2 D2 B2 U F2 R' D' B L' D F' U L2 D R U'
12550 10-jun-2018 17:01:09 00:21.175 U' B2 D R2 D L2 D2 R2 B2 D2 R F' L B D2 F L D2 F2 D2
12549 10-jun-2018 17:00:30 00:21.311 D2 B2 R2 D U R2 D' L2 D L2 B2 L F R2 B2 U2 B F2 L D' R U'
12548 10-jun-2018 16:59:37 00:28.598 F2 L2 U F2 R2 D R2 D F2 R2 F L D' L' F' U2 F R' B' D U'
12547 10-jun-2018 16:58:56 00:22.623 U' L2 F2 D B2 D2 R2 U' R2 U2 L2 F' L B2 L' U2 R' B D B2 L' U2
12546 10-jun-2018 16:58:12 00:24.591 U B2 F2 D F2 U2 B2 F2 R2 L2 U' B' R B2 D B' L2 D2 L2 U' R2
12545 10-jun-2018 16:57:28 00:23.109 D' F2 R2 B2 U L2 D F2 D2 B2 D' B R F L2 U R' L' F2 U' L2
12544 10-jun-2018 16:56:44 00:23.479 U B2 F2 R2 D' B2 R2 B2 D L2 D F B2 D2 R F U' R' D' L D2 U'
12543 10-jun-2018 16:55:55 00:27.094 D U B2 U2 F2 R2 U R2 U2 R2 B L U2 B R U' B2 D' F L U
12542 10-jun-2018 16:55:13 00:21.199 U' R2 B2 D F2 D' F2 R2 F2 U' B' U2 L B2 D2 L F U' R D2
12541 10-jun-2018 16:54:28 00:23.742 D2 B2 F2 R2 D' B2 L2 U R2 D' U B' L2 D' F U2 L2 U L B2 L2 U'
12540 10-jun-2018 16:53:37 00:27.382 D' F2 U R2 F2 D R2 F2 L2 D2 F' R2 U' B2 L2 F' U' R' D2 U
12539 10-jun-2018 16:52:51 00:28.079 R2 L2 F2 D2 R2 D R2 U' R2 D2 B' R' D B F L B U2 R
12538 10-jun-2018 16:52:11 00:23.407 U2 L2 D2 R2 U2 B2 D' L2 U' R2 B2 L D B' D F' U' B' U' R L'
12537 10-jun-2018 16:51:20 00:27.854 L2 D2 R2 L2 D F2 D' B2 F2 D' F' R L D' F' D' L2 B D
12536 10-jun-2018 16:50:37 00:22.815 D' R2 U L2 U' R2 D2 B2 F2 R2 F2 R B U L' F2 U' B' F' D' R2 F
12535 10-jun-2018 16:49:50 00:21.999 B2 D2 B2 R2 B2 D R2 D L2 U2 R2 B' R' D F2 U2 B R' L D2 U'
12534 10-jun-2018 16:49:07 00:24.191 U2 R2 D' L2 U L2 U R2 U L2 U' L' U L2 U B F D B' U' R2 U
12533 10-jun-2018 16:48:04 00:29.431 B2 F2 L2 D' R2 B2 U R2 U' F2 U R' D F U2 R U' R' L' U' F' U2
12532 10-jun-2018 16:47:14 00:32.246 F2 R2 D B2 D' L2 U2 R2 U2 F2 U F L' D2 U2 L2 B F2 R U L' D'
12531 10-jun-2018 16:46:26 00:29.678 F2 D' R2 D B2 F2 R2 D2 F2 U' B2 L F2 L' D' B' F' L B' D' U
12530 10-jun-2018 16:45:10 00:29.526 R2 B2 D2 F2 L2 F2 D B2 R2 L2 D' B U L2 B' U L' F L' D2 L' U2
12529 10-jun-2018 16:44:23 00:24.350 F2 U F2 D' R2 B2 U2 F2 U2 F2 L2 F' U B' L2 D' F R' U L F R
12528 10-jun-2018 16:43:39 00:21.646 L2 F2 D' B2 U' L2 D' U' R2 F2 D2 F D2 L2 B2 U B F2 R' B
12527 10-jun-2018 16:43:00 00:19.409 D B2 U' F2 L2 D B2 L2 D R2 U2 B' L D2 R' L2 U2 L' F U'
12526 10-jun-2018 16:42:10 00:30.503 F2 U R2 D' R2 L2 D R2 D2 F2 R U2 F L' B F L F2 L' F2 D
*12525 10-jun-2018 16:41:31 00:16.447 L2 U' F2 D' R2 F2 L2 F2 D' B2 U' B' D2 L B2 U' F' L' F2 R' B2*
12524 10-jun-2018 16:40:30 00:37.285 B2 L2 B2 F2 D' R2 L2 D2 R2 D F' R L2 B2 U R' D B D2 F' U2
12523 10-jun-2018 16:39:45 00:20.920 L2 D2 F2 D L2 F2 U2 F2 D' R2 D2 R D2 F' L2 D B R2 L2 D2 B2 U
12522 10-jun-2018 16:38:57 00:29.398 L2 F2 R2 U2 F2 U F2 U2 L2 D' F2 R B' L B' D2 U2 F R F2 U'
12521 10-jun-2018 16:38:14 00:23.031 F2 D L2 U2 B2 R2 B2 D F2 L2 U L' D B R L D2 B U2 B2 D L'
12520 10-jun-2018 16:37:25 00:27.198 R2 D B2 U2 B2 R2 U' R2 D L2 B' U2 L' F' L D R' B U2 L'
12519 10-jun-2018 16:36:39 00:29.031 R2 D F2 D' L2 F2 D U2 B2 D' L2 F D B R U B L U2 R' F' U'
12518 10-jun-2018 16:35:55 00:25.040 F2 U2 B2 D R2 B2 L2 U R2 F2 U' B R F R2 F L B U B L2 D
12517 10-jun-2018 16:35:13 00:21.847 R2 B2 R2 B2 L2 D F2 L2 F2 D L' B' D2 R D2 F' D2 L' F2 D
12516 10-jun-2018 16:34:20 00:30.686 D F2 D' R2 B2 D F2 U' F2 U B2 L' B R U R D B R L B'
12515 10-jun-2018 16:33:35 00:24.174 F2 D F2 U R2 B2 U' F2 D' U2 L2 B R L' F D L D' B D' R' U'
12514 10-jun-2018 16:32:57 00:22.031 B2 D' B2 F2 L2 U L2 F2 R2 B2 U2 B' D2 L2 U B F D' R U L U
12513 10-jun-2018 16:32:07 00:27.311 B2 D2 U' F2 U B2 R2 F2 D2 F2 U' L D' B F U R2 F' L' B2 F L'
12512 10-jun-2018 16:31:24 00:25.215 F2 U B2 U' L2 D' R2 B2 U F2 U2 L' F' U' F L' F L' B U2 L U'
12511 10-jun-2018 16:30:40 00:25.375 D B2 L2 B2 L2 D2 B2 U' B2 L2 U' B D B' U2 F D2 R' D' B' D U
12510 10-jun-2018 16:29:56 00:24.838 U2 L2 U2 B2 R2 D' L2 D B2 R2 U F D2 R' B' D' B2 D2 R' D' L2
12509 10-jun-2018 16:29:13 00:21.950 R2 U' L2 D F2 D2 F2 L2 F2 U B2 L' B D B2 U R2 U F2 U2
12508 10-jun-2018 16:28:33 00:21.952 U2 B2 L2 D F2 D' R2 U2 R2 L2 F' R2 U2 R' U B' L' B U R'
12507 10-jun-2018 16:27:51 00:24.798 F2 U F2 U' B2 F2 R2 B2 U' R2 U' R' L2 U' L B' L2 U F D' B2 U'
12506 10-jun-2018 16:27:05 00:28.134 L2 F2 U R2 B2 R2 L2 U2 B2 U R D2 F' D U2 F' L U F R2 U'
12505 10-jun-2018 16:26:22 00:23.903 D F2 R2 U R2 D B2 D F2 R2 D2 B' L' U B2 R F2 D' L2 D' B2
12504 10-jun-2018 16:25:42 00:24.462 F2 U' B2 R2 U2 R2 U B2 U2 R2 F D U2 B' D2 B' D2 L D F2 U'
12503 10-jun-2018 16:24:58 00:25.134 D2 R2 U2 R2 F2 D2 B2 L2 D R2 D' B' R' D U2 R' B' F' R2 U' R' D2
12502 10-jun-2018 16:24:12 00:29.566 L2 U' L2 B2 U B2 D' F2 U' F2 U F' R' U B' L' F2 U L2 B' R' U
12501 10-jun-2018 16:23:20 00:26.502 U2 L2 U2 R2 B2 U' F2 U2 B2 R2 D' L' F' U R2 B2 U2 L' U F L2
12500 10-jun-2018 16:22:33 00:29.375 D' R2 U B2 U F2 U' L2 U' F2 D2 R' D B2 U F' D2 F2 D B2
12499 10-jun-2018 16:21:54 00:21.269 R2 D' R2 D R2 D' R2 L2 U' R2 U R D B F R2 L B2 F2 D2 F R2
12498 10-jun-2018 16:21:02 00:29.398 D F2 L2 F2 D' L2 D' R2 U2 F' R D U' B F2 D' L F R U
12497 10-jun-2018 16:20:20 00:23.679 D' F2 L2 D F2 R2 D2 B2 U L2 F U F R B F2 L D' B2 R' D
12496 10-jun-2018 16:19:36 00:25.431 F2 D L2 D' B2 F2 L2 U' R2 F2 D' R D U B' F' R B D2 U B2
12495 10-jun-2018 16:18:40 00:31.599 B2 F2 D F2 D' L2 D L2 B2 D' R2 F' L' D2 B2 D' R U' F U R2 U'
12494 10-jun-2018 16:17:54 00:24.550 F2 R2 D R2 L2 U' F2 D' R2 U' R2 B' L2 D2 U B2 D' R B' L
12493 10-jun-2018 16:17:13 00:19.983 F2 R2 B2 U' R2 F2 U' L2 D R2 U R F U2 B' U' R2 U2 F2 L B' U'
12492 10-jun-2018 16:16:26 00:26.695 U' R2 D2 R2 B2 U F2 U' L2 F2 U2 F R' U' B' U L' F' R2 U2 B
12491 10-jun-2018 16:15:43 00:24.799 U B2 F2 U' F2 D F2 R2 D F2 U F R B' F' R' B L2 D U
12490 10-jun-2018 16:14:57 00:27.254 U L2 U F2 D2 U' B2 F2 L2 D' L2 B U F R' D2 F' L' F' D B2
12489 10-jun-2018 16:14:08 00:28.814 U F2 L2 D' R2 U' L2 D2 R2 B2 U B U2 R' B F' U B' L' D2 L'
12488 10-jun-2018 16:13:15 00:26.583 D' B2 D L2 F2 D' B2 R2 U' L2 D B L2 F D R' L D' R2 L' B U'
12487 10-jun-2018 16:12:26 00:31.199 B2 U' F2 R2 U' R2 B2 D F2 L2 D2 B' R L D L2 B2 R' B L' B
12486 10-jun-2018 16:11:43 00:22.056 U R2 F2 R2 D' F2 R2 L2 D R2 U' R B2 F' D2 R' D B D2 L' B2 D2
12485 10-jun-2018 16:11:00 00:25.398 F2 D B2 D F2 L2 D2 R2 D B2 D2 F L2 U' B' D F' R' D2 F' U
12484 10-jun-2018 16:10:06 00:32.210 B2 U' L2 F2 U R2 L2 B2 L2 U2 L2 F L B2 L2 U L D' R F' D2 U'
12483 10-jun-2018 16:09:10 00:32.334 B2 L2 U2 L2 D' F2 U L2 B2 R2 D2 L' B F' L' B2 U' B' L D L'
12482 10-jun-2018 16:08:23 00:26.294 R2 D2 B2 D B2 U' L2 D B2 R2 B2 L D' B D U2 B L B' F' D' U'
12481 10-jun-2018 16:07:36 00:27.293 U B2 U R2 U F2 R2 F2 D2 R2 U' L R2 F' R' L' U2 L' D2 U B F'
12480 10-jun-2018 16:06:57 00:21.848 D' F2 R2 B2 U B2 L2 D U' R' U B' D2 F2 D R2 B' F' U2
12479 10-jun-2018 16:06:11 00:26.150 L2 U B2 R2 L2 D' U2 L2 U' B2 U L' B F2 L' D' U2 B2 F R U2
12478 10-jun-2018 16:05:28 00:23.862 D' U' B2 L2 F2 L2 D2 F2 D R2 L2 F R2 U' B D F R F' D U'
12477 10-jun-2018 16:04:42 00:21.478 L2 F2 D' R2 B2 L2 U R2 D2 U' F2 R' D L' D B D' B' L' F' R'
12476 10-jun-2018 16:03:52 00:30.817 D F2 L2 B2 L2 D' F2 L2 D' L2 D' R F' R' D2 R' L' D' B2 U2 B'
12475 10-jun-2018 16:03:09 00:23.998 D2 L2 D R2 D' L2 D2 L2 U' R2 L2 B D F L D2 R D B' R' F' U2
12474 10-jun-2018 16:02:25 00:27.727 B2 F2 U L2 D L2 F2 R2 L2 D' U F D2 U' R2 B2 F' R' U' F' D L'
12473 10-jun-2018 16:01:39 00:23.832 L2 U B2 L2 D' R2 U R2 L2 U F U R L B2 U2 F2 D F' D2
12472 10-jun-2018 16:00:55 00:25.056 L2 U2 R2 U L2 F2 L2 D2 B2 L2 U L' B D' U2 R U B D U L' U2
12471 10-jun-2018 16:00:07 00:25.966 U2 B2 D' L2 U L2 B2 F2 D L B R' D F2 D B' U R2 D L'
12470 10-jun-2018 15:59:23 00:23.359 U B2 U R2 F2 U' R2 D B2 R2 U' B' R2 L' B2 F U2 B2 R' U L' D2
*12469 10-jun-2018 15:58:35 00:23.814 R2 U2 B2 F2 U' R2 U2 B2 U2 F2 U R B2 L' B' R2 D F R' D' L2 D'
12468 10-jun-2018 15:57:51 00:21.254 B2 U2 B2 F2 L2 D R2 L2 D F2 U2 B D F' L B' D L2 F' D2 F'
12467 10-jun-2018 15:57:03 00:26.685 U' B2 U F2 U' F2 D2 B2 F2 D B2 R D' L B' R F R D' L2 D2
12466 10-jun-2018 15:56:11 00:31.151 R2 U B2 F2 U' L2 U B2 D' R2 D F' D2 L F D U B R B' D' U
12465 10-jun-2018 15:55:28 00:22.079 L2 D2 F2 U L2 D R2 B2 R2 L2 D L F D' B' F D U2 L U R U2
12464 10-jun-2018 15:54:45 00:23.453 B2 D' L2 U' R2 B2 F2 U2 L2 B2 U2 F' U' L' D R F' D' F2 R2 U2
12463 10-jun-2018 15:53:59 00:26.694 U2 B2 L2 U' F2 R2 F2 R2 F2 D2 B2 L' F' L D' F' L' U' F R2 U2*
_*12462 10-jun-2018 15:53:10 00:21.709 U L2 D' R2 D' B2 D L2 B2 D' B2 R L2 B F' R L2 D' F U2
12461 10-jun-2018 15:52:26 00:21.799 U' B2 R2 L2 D2 B2 F2 U' R2 B2 U B R D U2 L2 B2 F R U B'
12460 10-jun-2018 15:51:45 00:21.679 D' F2 R2 U2 L2 U' F2 U B2 D B2 L' D2 B L2 U' L' F U B R U'
12459 10-jun-2018 15:51:00 00:24.054 B2 U2 F2 U F2 U L2 D2 R2 F2 R2 B D' L' U L2 D2 F' R B2 F L
12458 10-jun-2018 15:50:21 00:18.879 F2 D L2 U2 R2 L2 D' F2 U R F U' B R L2 F2 R2 B U'*_


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## openseas (Jun 10, 2018)

Well, I’ve got first 3 BLD podium even with not so admirable result (2:05), mostly thanks to huge dnf attempts from top blders 

A side note, my son broke his official PB


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## pglewis (Jun 10, 2018)

openseas said:


> Well, I’ve got first 3 BLD podium even with not so admirable result (2:05), mostly thanks to huge dnf attempts from top blders
> 
> A side note, my son broke his official PB



I just saw the announcement! I kinda knew it was coming, congrats to both you and Jeff!


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## newtonbase (Jun 10, 2018)

openseas said:


> Well, I’ve got first 3 BLD podium even with not so admirable result (2:05), mostly thanks to huge dnf attempts from top blders
> 
> A side note, my son broke his official PB


2nd only to a WR. There's not many of us can say that.


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## mark49152 (Jun 10, 2018)

@openseas you must be very proud . Congrats to you both!


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## newtonbase (Jun 10, 2018)

Just seen the scramble. How on earth did he get a WR on that?


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## openseas (Jun 10, 2018)

newtonbase said:


> Just seen the scramble. How on earth did he get a WR on that?



I was also competing. When I saw the scrambled cube for my turn, I was like, what?, with this scramble? after 2min trying to memo, just gave up. I was also too much excited to do anything.


Thanks, @pglewis , @mark49152 , @newtonbase


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## h2f (Jun 10, 2018)

openseas said:


> Well, I’ve got first 3 BLD podium even with not so admirable result (2:05), mostly thanks to huge dnf attempts from top blders
> 
> A side note, my son broke his official PB



Big congrats. Father and son on podium - amazing!


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## Jason Green (Jun 10, 2018)

openseas said:


> Well, I’ve got first 3 BLD podium even with not so admirable result (2:05), mostly thanks to huge dnf attempts from top blders
> 
> A side note, my son broke his official PB


Just awesome stuff! And another awesome comp Jae! You guys run it so well, I was bragging to my parents how well you keep on schedule.

I only got to go the first day and hadn't posted anything about it yet. I said I felt like it was my most unprepared comp yet. 3x3 was extra dismal, even for not being prepared. 3 BLD I had two DNFs just over 5 minutes which I was ok with actually. My execution is really bad being out of practice. I did still manage 2 single PBs in 4x4 and 5x5. OH was about normal for not having practiced. 

http://m.cubecomps.com/competitions/3260/competitors/27


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## SpartanSailor (Jun 11, 2018)

openseas said:


> Well, I’ve got first 3 BLD podium even with not so admirable result (2:05), mostly thanks to huge dnf attempts from top blders
> 
> A side note, my son broke his official PB


Awesome! Congrats!

It’s nice to see Jeff get that WR. I hope you have a video we can see soon


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## Jason Green (Jun 11, 2018)

openseas said:


> Well, I’ve got first 3 BLD podium even with not so admirable result (2:05), mostly thanks to huge dnf attempts from top blders
> 
> A side note, my son broke his official PB


And congrats on your podium Jae! I totally forgot to say that sorry!!


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## 40yearstosolve (Jun 11, 2018)

Joining the thread thought I’d say Hi and thanks for the link to this.

Annoyingly I don’t feel old at all, at 45.

I am a new solver - never did solve it when I was 5 - but experience and wisdom have served me well (only wish I had had those attributes forty years ago ).

Anyone else not solved it until recently?


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## 40yearstosolve (Jun 11, 2018)

Wow this is amazing that you were ‘me’ forty years ago. What an fascinating story.

Can’t wait to become a geezer myself



Old Tom said:


> Just butting into this thread, because I am indeed an Older Cuber. I will turn 80 later this month, learned to solve via LBL in 1981, when I was already 42, with help from David Singmaster's classisc booklet. Never tried to speedsolve (so don't ask me my times)! I would pick up the cube again every year or so, just to see "if I could still do it." I always could, using a slightly unothodox method of my own design for the last layer that needs ony four algs (edge O, edge P, corner P, corner O).
> 
> Just this last April stumbled on this site, and became motivated to learn F2L. Love it, now doing it completely intuitively, but have no look-ahead (yet), so just enjoying it w/o aiming for speed. Still staying with my last layer method, zero desire to learn all those algs.
> 
> I wonder how many of us "geezers" are around?


ow


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## 40yearstosolve (Jun 11, 2018)

So is there any hope for me? Can I ever achieve a sub 1 minute?

How I solve is (please don’t laugh)...

1. Daisy
2. 180 degrees to Cross
3. Solve white corners
4. Solve first two layers: White facing away
5. Solve yellow: Look for yellow symbols and use algorithms: right sune amongst three or so others.
6. Last later: I have two here. One to solve where no corners match. And another to solve where I just have middles to solve.

It takes me a long time. FIVE FULL MINUTES! But finally I can do it without reading my notes.

I can’t have any distractions otherwise I get it wrong.

The last two algos really hurt my head to remember, I’ve had to craft some weird techniques to remember them. As well as the yellow symbols, I have little memory joggers to remember the rule.

Is there any chance I can speed this up or does my technique confine me to a perpetual 5 minutes!!


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## mark49152 (Jun 11, 2018)

40yearstosolve said:


> So is there any hope for me? Can I ever achieve a sub 1 minute?


Of course . You'll have to learn some new stuff though, but that's part of the fun.

See here for some fast oldies: https://github.com/Logiqx/wca-ipy/blob/master/README.md

@Logiqx and @Selkie are battling it out for fastest UK oldie


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## SpartanSailor (Jun 11, 2018)

40yearstosolve said:


> Joining the thread thought I’d say Hi and thanks for the link to this.
> 
> Annoyingly I don’t feel old at all, at 45.
> 
> ...


I only started sometime around March 2016. Only a couple years, but it’s definitely enjoyable.

Edit:
Sounds like the beginner method. You can definitely get that down under a minute. A friend of mine started a couple months ago. I showed him basically the method you are using. He’s under a minute now. 

The algs can be intimidating. But with the ones you have, you can keep practicing them. They will get easier and come more naturally. 

Welcome to the world of Cubing and welcome to the group!


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## openseas (Jun 11, 2018)

Jason Green said:


> Just awesome stuff! And another awesome comp Jae! You guys run it so well, I was bragging to my parents how well you keep on schedule.



Thanks! It was fun! A small comp with all 18events for 2 days was kinda exhausting but was able to get it done one time. Just award ceremony took more than half hour - 18 events + some fun awards, too. We’ll have 3 more DFW comps this Summer, the August one will be another 2 day comp with +100 peoeple.



SpartanSailor said:


> Awesome! Congrats!
> 
> It’s nice to see Jeff get that WR. I hope you have a video we can see soon



Thanks, Jeremy!
He uploaded the video.








40yearstosolve said:


> Is there any chance I can speed this up or does my technique confine me to a perpetual 5 minutes!!



Welcome! I started about 45 as well. Yes, at first, sub 1 minute looked so far away & unreachable but once you break one barrier, you’ll find yourself aiming higher and higher. Folks here have good source of information, can help you a lot. Enjoy the path!


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## 40yearstosolve (Jun 11, 2018)

Ha great, it’s a great forum Thanks.

Fantastic, I will keep going at it and practising. Under a minute is impressive enough for me I think. 5 minutes bores whoever you are showing. But even my 7 year old will wait 1 minute.





SpartanSailor said:


> I only started sometime around March 2016. Only a couple years, but it’s definitely enjoyable.
> 
> Edit:
> Sounds like the beginner method. You can definitely get that down under a minute. A friend of mine started a couple months ago. I showed him basically the method you are using. He’s under a minute now.
> ...


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## 40yearstosolve (Jun 11, 2018)

openseas said:


> Thanks! It was fun! A small comp with all 18events for 2 days was kinda exhausting but was able to get it done one time. Just award ceremony took more than half hour - 18 events + some fun awards, too. We’ll have 3 more DFW comps this Summer, the August one will be another 2 day comp with +100 peoeple.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



That is encouraging to read, I will keep on plodding away at it. The difficulty is I don’t get to practise the latter stage algos as much because I have to get through the rest of the solve first! And doing the daisy takes me 1 minute in itself haha!


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## pglewis (Jun 11, 2018)

A few further impressions on the Yuxin HuangLong M (stickerless) after a few days. 

It's fast but I don't think as crazy fast as some of the reviews out there make it out to be. My GTS2Ms aren't much slower, if any, when maintained and setup with speed in mind. Magnets feel stronger than the factory GTS2M but I don't think it affects me much. Stickerless shades are definitely awesome, my favorite so far. I've done a handful of 3bld with it and had no issues during execution. 

I'm not sure it'll usurp the GTS2M for overall "main" status in the long run, I always seem to return to them, but it's good enough to be making a case for itself.


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## newtonbase (Jun 11, 2018)

Welcome @40yearstosolve
I got my first solve at 41. You'll speed up very soon and will definitely get under a minute with a bit of practice. Your method is fine to build upon.


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## pglewis (Jun 11, 2018)

Welcome to @Old Tom and @40yearstosolve! 

I learned to solve in the 80s but it went by the wayside after the fad crashed until a couple years ago. I'm all-in on the hobby again now, welcome to the old men's club!


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## Jason Green (Jun 11, 2018)

40yearstosolve said:


> Joining the thread thought I’d say Hi and thanks for the link to this.
> 
> Annoyingly I don’t feel old at all, at 45.
> 
> ...


I first solved using Petrus in my 30s a little, but not too try and improve. But I never really got into it until I was 40. Like everyone else said you can get pretty fast with your method! If you look on cstimer there are different types of scrambles like only the last layer. You could use that to get more practice on just the end of your solve for example.


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## 40yearstosolve (Jun 12, 2018)

Jason Green said:


> I first solved using Petrus in my 30s a little, but not too try and improve. But I never really got into it until I was 40. Like everyone else said you can get pretty fast with your method! If you look on cstimer there are different types of scrambles like only the last layer. You could use that to get more practice on just the end of your solve for example.



I have just been playing with cstimer, extremely clever and detailed. Perhaps it’s the haze of the morning, I can’t see how I can scramble just the last layer. Trying it on my phone will look on laptop later.

Thanks hugely for sharing that, someone has gone to a lot of effort.

Cheers


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## CLL Smooth (Jun 12, 2018)

40yearstosolve said:


> So is there any hope for me? Can I ever achieve a sub 1 minute?
> 
> How I solve is (please don’t laugh)...
> 
> ...


Welcome to the speedsolving forum! You’ll find an abundance of useful information here. Everyone on this thread is very helpful as well. As far as your method goes it’s a fine thing to start with. The first piece of advice I would give though is to loose the daisy. It’s an extraneous step and you should be able to figure out how to solve the white edges directly without doing the daisy first. Best of luck on your cubing journey. I believe it’s a quite different journey for everyone but we all have the same passion.


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## Mike Hughey (Jun 12, 2018)

40yearstosolve said:


> I have just been playing with cstimer, extremely clever and detailed. Perhaps it’s the haze of the morning, I can’t see how I can scramble just the last layer. Trying it on my phone will look on laptop later.


When you first pull up cstimer, click on the box where it says "WCA" and pick "3x3x3" from that menu. Then the box next to it will say "WCA". Click on that box and pick "last layer". Voila - scrambles that only scramble the last layer.

I just had a big near-total success for multi. For the "Nationals Simulation" thread, second attempt:
*14/15, 57:41.98* (10:2E; memorization: 37:15.30)
I just had 2 edges wrong on the tenth cube - there were two flipped edges and I only saw one of them when memorizing.
I can really do 15!
Now to start trying to increase. 16 certainly looks doable, anyway.


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## mark49152 (Jun 12, 2018)

Mike Hughey said:


> I just had a big near-total success for multi. For the "Nationals Simulation" thread, second attempt:
> *14/15, 57:41.98* (10:2E; memorization: 37:15.30)
> I just had 2 edges wrong on the tenth cube - there were two flipped edges and I only saw one of them when memorizing.
> I can really do 15!
> Now to start trying to increase. 16 certainly looks doable, anyway.


Go for it Mike! When's your next WCA comp with multi?


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## 40yearstosolve (Jun 12, 2018)

CLL Smooth said:


> Welcome to the speedsolving forum! You’ll find an abundance of useful information here. Everyone on this thread is very helpful as well. As far as your method goes it’s a fine thing to start with. The first piece of advice I would give though is to loose the daisy. It’s an extraneous step and you should be able to figure out how to solve the white edges directly without doing the daisy first. Best of luck on your cubing journey. I believe it’s a quite different journey for everyone but we all have the same passion.



Thank you, and yep it’s a friendly place - I was waiting for the mocking  That’s a great tip thank you for that, today’s mission


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## 40yearstosolve (Jun 12, 2018)

This is amazing thank you Mike - found it cheers.

From your message I think you are saying you completed 15 solves!!




Mike Hughey said:


> When you first pull up cstimer, click on the box where it says "WCA" and pick "3x3x3" from that menu. Then the box next to it will say "WCA". Click on that box and pick "last layer". Voila - scrambles that only scramble the last layer.
> 
> I just had a big near-total success for multi. For the "Nationals Simulation" thread, second attempt:
> *14/15, 57:41.98* (10:2E; memorization: 37:15.30)
> ...


----------



## Mike Hughey (Jun 12, 2018)

mark49152 said:


> Go for it Mike! When's your next WCA comp with multi?


Unfortunately it may be a while. There's one in Wisconsin in October that I'd love to go to, but I probably have a family-related conflict that will keep me from making it there. :-(


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## SpartanSailor (Jun 12, 2018)

I wanted to ask a 6x6 edge/OLL parity question.

I have this case. If I fix the yellow/blue edge parity I end up with an OLL parity. Is there a different 6x6 alg that fixes this edge and prevents the OLL parity?

I just use the OLL parity alg with a slight modification to use 4R at one point (similar to the 5x5 version with 3R). Then I have to redo essentially the same 4x4 alg to fix the OLL parity.


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## One Wheel (Jun 12, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> View attachment 9205 I wanted to ask a 6x6 edge/OLL parity question.
> 
> I have this case. If I fix the yellow/blue edge parity I end up with an OLL parity. Is there a different 6x6 alg that fixes this edge and prevents the OLL parity?
> 
> I just use the OLL parity alg with a slight modification to use 4R at one point (similar to the 5x5 version with 3R). Then I have to redo essentially the same 4x4 alg to fix the OLL parity.



In this case do the regular OLL parity alg like on a 4x4 (Rw U2 x Rw U2 . . .) Except instead of Rw do r (just the inner slice) and at the end tack on an extra U2 Rw' Lw.


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## SpartanSailor (Jun 12, 2018)

One Wheel said:


> In this case do the regular OLL parity alg like on a 4x4 (Rw U2 x Rw U2 . . .) Except instead of Rw do r (just the inner slice) and at the end tack on an extra U2 Rw' Lw.


I’ll have to practice that one... moving just the inner slice isn’t a natural move for me. But I’ll give it a shot. If it fixes the edge and prevents an OLL parity, it’s absolutey worth a day to drill it and get it down.


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## One Wheel (Jun 12, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> I’ll have to practice that one... moving just the inner slice isn’t a natural move for me. But I’ll give it a shot. If it fixes the edge and prevents an OLL parity, it’s absolutey worth a day to drill it and get it down.



I execute r as 3r 2r' (actually 4r 3r' or 2l 3l' but that's because I mirror the 4x4 alg so I can do mostly right handed U2s). It does take some time to get down, but not too bad, and it beats doing 2 separate algs.


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## 40yearstosolve (Jun 12, 2018)

Jason Green said:


> I first solved using Petrus in my 30s a little, but not too try and improve. But I never really got into it until I was 40. Like everyone else said you can get pretty fast with your method! If you look on cstimer there are different types of scrambles like only the last layer. You could use that to get more practice on just the end of your solve for example.



Down to 3:46 I feel incredibly slow though and doing it daily, maybe 10 practises a day or so.

I am definitely going to have to look at how I get the first white square and the small T’s because that alone takes me 1 minute!! There must be an algo for it.


----------



## openseas (Jun 12, 2018)

40yearstosolve said:


> Down to 3:46 I feel incredibly slow though and doing it daily, maybe 10 practises a day or so.
> 
> I am definitely going to have to look at how I get the first white square and the small T’s because that alone takes me 1 minute!! There must be an algo for it.



There are many tips for each process. Cross is something you can improve with tips and many solves - not much of algorithms.

J perm is one of the best youtube teacher - please check his tips.


----------



## Sergey (Jun 12, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> View attachment 9205 I wanted to ask a 6x6 edge/OLL parity question.
> 
> I have this case. If I fix the yellow/blue edge parity I end up with an OLL parity. Is there a different 6x6 alg that fixes this edge and prevents the OLL parity?
> 
> I just use the OLL parity alg with a slight modification to use 4R at one point (similar to the 5x5 version with 3R). Then I have to redo essentially the same 4x4 alg to fix the OLL parity.



I think this is similar to this tip (at 1:49):






I was not found "inner slice" alg, but tried to "reconstruct" it . If I'm not wrong this is it:

x' 3R2 U2 x U2 3L U2 3R' U2 3R U2 x U2 3R U2 x2 3L' U2 3R2


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## Old Tom (Jun 12, 2018)

40yearstosolve said:


> Wow this is amazing that you were ‘me’ forty years ago. What an fascinating story.
> 
> Can’t wait to become a geezer myself
> 
> ...


Welcome, "40 Yearbie". You still have 40 more years of fun (at least) ahead of you. I am currently really enjoying all the nuances of F2L, and not worrying much about time.


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## xyzzy (Jun 13, 2018)

Sergey said:


> I was not found "inner slice" alg, but tried to "reconstruct" it . If I'm not wrong this is it:
> 
> x' 3R2 U2 x U2 3L U2 3R' U2 3R U2 x U2 3R U2 x2 3L' U2 3R2


That's just the "red bull" parity alg (r2 B2 U2 l etc.); most people use lucasparity these days. However, with the red bull alg, you can optimise the inner-slice version by doing the first and last moves as wide moves instead of inner-slice moves.


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## newtonbase (Jun 13, 2018)

40yearstosolve said:


> From your message I think you are saying you completed 15 solves!!


This is the multiple blindfold event. @Mike Hughey has memorised 15 cubes then attempted to solve them blindfolded. He got 14 of them correct. There's a few of us who do that event on here but not many who can attempt that number of cubes. (You get to choose how many to do).


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## 40yearstosolve (Jun 13, 2018)

openseas said:


> There are many tips for each process. Cross is something you can improve with tips and many solves - not much of algorithms.
> 
> J perm is one of the best youtube teacher - please check his tips.


Wow that gives me an insight how people become sub 10 second solvers. It’s way over my head and it seems there’s a big leap from solving verbatim vs solving using skilled moves shown in that YouTube video. When I complete my moves, for the most part at least, I have no clue what I am doing or why. I wonder if as I become more natural I will start to understand what each move is doing and then begin to apply more efficient moves. I think I have many months ahead of me, but I am determined and still do between 10 and 20 solves each day. I am even going as far as to buy a tiny cube so I can literally take a cube anywhere, solving on the loo even 

Actually, on that, can you suggest a good quality smooth tiny cube? The best I can find is a MoYu keyring. The cube I have now is a MoYu Aelong and I am very happy with it at £10.


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## 40yearstosolve (Jun 13, 2018)

Mike Hughey said:


> When you first pull up cstimer, click on the box where it says "WCA" and pick "3x3x3" from that menu. Then the box next to it will say "WCA". Click on that box and pick "last layer". Voila - scrambles that only scramble the last layer.
> 
> I just had a big near-total success for multi. For the "Nationals Simulation" thread, second attempt:
> *14/15, 57:41.98* (10:2E; memorization: 37:15.30)
> ...



Sorry to expose my dimness, if I follow this algo tonscambke just the last layer my entire cube is scrambled! If you have a second to knock me about the head, what am I doing wrong?


----------



## mark49152 (Jun 13, 2018)

40yearstosolve said:


> Sorry to expose my dimness, if I follow this algo tonscambke just the last layer my entire cube is scrambled! If you have a second to knock me about the head, what am I doing wrong?


My guess is you're doing some of the moves in the wrong direction. Take care over primes. They are always anticlockwise.


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## openseas (Jun 13, 2018)

40yearstosolve said:


> Actually, on that, can you suggest a good quality smooth tiny cube? The best I can find is a MoYu keyring. The cube I have now is a MoYu Aelong and I am very happy with it at £10.



@40yearstosolve / Key chain cubes are small and easy to carry but 1) really bad in turning and 2) pops up easily. There is a relatively small cube called Valk Mini. But, just regular cube is not that bad to carry. I always carry one cube with me so that I can play with it anywhere. I believe folks here all same.


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## 40yearstosolve (Jun 13, 2018)

I had ordered this one, it’s made by MaYu so in theory should be the better of a bad lot as it is a keyring. Will report back!

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B076HHFBLP


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## 40yearstosolve (Jun 13, 2018)

mark49152 said:


> My guess is you're doing some of the moves in the wrong direction. Take care over primes. They are always anticlockwise.



Sorry I meant to attach the photo. The algo should be to scramble just the top layer is my understanding. I start with a completed cube.


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## One Wheel (Jun 13, 2018)

40yearstosolve said:


> Sorry I meant to attach the photo. The algo should be to scramble just the top layer is my understanding. I start with a completed cube.


I get just the last layer scrambled with that scramble.


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## Mike Hughey (Jun 13, 2018)

40yearstosolve said:


> Sorry I meant to attach the photo. The algo should be to scramble just the top layer is my understanding. I start with a completed cube.


In cstimer you can go to the "Tools" and select "Draw Scramble", and it will show you what the scramble is supposed to look like on your cube once you apply it. If you don't get a scramble that matches the picture, then it means you've applied the scramble incorrectly somehow - as someone mentioned earlier, perhaps by performing a turn clockwise instead of counterclockwise or vice-versa?


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## 40yearstosolve (Jun 13, 2018)

One Wheel said:


> I get just the last layer scrambled with that scramble.



Gawd I’ve got a lot to learn. Had my D and L wrong way around. I don’t use them in any current algos! Thank you and sorry


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## Mike Hughey (Jun 13, 2018)

Glad you figured it out! Knowing the notation well is a big step on the way to improvement.


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## newtonbase (Jun 14, 2018)

MBLD PB 7/7 39:00 (29:06)
Been getting annoyed at failures on my 10 cube attempts so went a bit smaller. Still good practice. Went super safe on memo and execution. Previous bests 5/5 and 7/9.


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## Sergey (Jun 14, 2018)

Got 3x3 PB 15.715 with this full of gifts scramble:

I think there are many months ahead to reproduce such time  After about 4,5 months my best times are: ao5 23.541, ao12 25.029, ao100 26.141 with random lucky sub 20 (about 1 for 100 solves). CFOP, some F2L algs, some OLL algs (basically 2-look OLL), full PLL. Still need to work on cross, F2L, lookahead, fingertricks and turn accuracy. Don't understand why many cubers says that there no need of lookahead for sub20 - not my case, I get good times only when I try to lookahead.


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## SpartanSailor (Jun 14, 2018)

My PB single is an outlier by a large amount too and much faster than my normal times. As to look ahead... there’s no way I’d get sub-20 without look ahead! 

I don’t worry too much about what people say regarding times and techniques. Everyone is so different that it’s really hard to legitamately make that claim about look ahead. 

I do, however, take advice and look to improve. For example, if I want to start learning a new alg set or something, I will. I don’t wait to be sub-“whatever” to add new stuff. I also took a very inefficient path to learning 3BLD because it worked for me... in retrospect I could have been faster a little sooner, but oh well. I’m enjoying myself. 

So, for look ahead... some people can turn and recognise setups so much faster that they can solve sub-20 without much trying to look ahead. I’m so much slower at recognition that I need to have good look ahead to offset my slow turning and alg recognition. 

I struggle with look ahead during F2L, but interestingly enough, when I practice 4x4 and 5x5 a lot, my 3x3 look ahead seems to improve....


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## h2f (Jun 14, 2018)

Sergey said:


> Don't understand why many cubers says that there no need of lookahead for sub20 - not my case, I get good times only when I try to lookahead.



Sub20 was really hard to me. I think if you are sub20 no leakahead means in fact 3-5 seconds pauses at all. But when you are over 20 you often got 3-5 seconds pauses before every f2l pair. So yeah - lookahead helps a lot.

I'll practice 4x4 for a week and I got first sub50 solve today.


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## 40yearstosolve (Jun 14, 2018)

newtonbase said:


> MBLD PB 7/7 39:00 (29:06)
> Been getting annoyed at failures on my 10 cube attempts so went a bit smaller. Still good practice. Went super safe on memo and execution. Previous bests 5/5 and 7/9.


Bonkers! I get annoyed when I can’t solve one! I seem to get a complete mental blank every now and again and seemingly unable to use the right algonst the right time. I am impressed however that I have yet to throw my cube in frustration!

5/5 and 7/9 is just unbelievable


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## Sergey (Jun 14, 2018)

PB 15.715 very lucky scramble:

R' D' R' B2 L' F' U F' L' F U2 R' B2 R U2 B2 D2 B2 U2

Reconstruction:

z2 y L D2 F B2 D2 //cross
L' U L // 1st pair
U l U L' U' M' // 2nd pair
U' R U' R' // 3rd pair
y R U' R' U R U' R' // 4th pair
R U R' U R U2 R' // OLL sune
x R2 D2 R U R' D2 R U' R x' // PLL A perm


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## SpartanSailor (Jun 14, 2018)

Sergey said:


> PB 15.715 very lucky scramble:
> 
> R' D' R' B2 L' F' U F' L' F U2 R' B2 R U2 B2 D2 B2 U2
> 
> ...


I’d have NEVER solved those F2L pairs like that... with the wide-L turn and the M’. That first pair was slick too. 

This is the type of stuff I’m going to have to figure out to make a real breakthrough.... then, of course, I’ll have to do it at speed.


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## Sergey (Jun 14, 2018)

h2f said:


> I'll practice 4x4 for a week and I got first sub50 solve today.


Wow! sub50 for a week! I don't practice 4x4 as hard as 3x3, only 2-3 solves a day for the same 4 months and my PB is only 1:39.574


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## Sergey (Jun 14, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> I’d have NEVER solved those F2L pairs like that... with the wide-L turn and the M’.


This is one of the F2L algs I've learned and train to avoid rotations.


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## h2f (Jun 14, 2018)

Sergey said:


> Wow! sub50 for a week! I don't practice 4x4 as hard as 3x3, only 2-3 solves a day for the same 4 months and my PB is only 1:39.574



It's not a first time when I do 4x4. I was globally sub 1:10. Now I got 1:04.xx ao100, after 400 solves.


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## SpartanSailor (Jun 14, 2018)

I need to do something different with 4x4 too... I’ve been stuck mid 1:20s for months and can seem to crack the code to get 1:15 or better. I can’t imagine a sub-1:00 at this point let alone a sub-50.


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## xyzzy (Jun 14, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> So, for look ahead... some people can turn and recognise setups so much faster that they can solve sub-20 without much trying to look ahead. I’m so much slower at recognition that I need to have good look ahead to offset my slow turning and alg recognition.
> 
> I struggle with look ahead during F2L, but interestingly enough, when I practice 4x4 and 5x5 a lot, my 3x3 look ahead seems to improve....


That's mostly my experience with cubing a few years ago too.

Big cubes (and OH) force you to turn slower, which makes it easier to track pieces, which improves your lookahead a bit. It does eventually reach a point where the lookahead you get from practising big cubes / OH isn't good enough to keep up with your full turning speed on 333, though. I used to have better lookahead on 333 after doing big cubes exclusively for a few days, but nowadays the opposite happens to me.



SpartanSailor said:


> I need to do something different with 4x4 too... I’ve been stuck mid 1:20s for months and can seem to crack the code to get 1:15 or better. I can’t imagine a sub-1:00 at this point let alone a sub-50.


Something that seemed to have helped me was to try variations of a method. My 444 method is mostly like Yau, but with two differences. One is that I do half-centres together with the first three cross dedges; the other is that when finishing the last cross dedge, I also try to pair up one F2L edge, then solve one F2L pair before going into 4-3 edge pairing. (Never quite liked 3-2-3, to be honest.)

Then again, I've always been doing weird stuff in my solves, and most other people seem to prefer conventional methods, so your mileage may vary!


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## megagoune (Jun 14, 2018)

Long time no posting  but I enjoy reading this thread.
I got into the habit of doing some practice in the morning while having breakfast and waiting for the kids to be ready. And I use cstimer for timing. As a result, I now have some kind of statistics of my improvements. I thought I'd share the graph here. This is the curve of my rolling ao12. I think I am getting closer to sub-20!!


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## 40yearstosolve (Jun 14, 2018)

megagoune said:


> Long time no posting  but I enjoy reading this thread.
> I got into the habit of doing some practice in the morning while having breakfast and waiting for the kids to be ready. And I use cstimer for timing. As a result, I now have some kind of statistics of my improvements. I thought I'd share the graph here. This is the curve of my rolling ao12. I think I am getting closer to sub-20!!
> 
> View attachment 9216



Fascinating. Do you download each timing and collate them all manually?


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## 40yearstosolve (Jun 14, 2018)

openseas said:


> @40yearstosolve / Key chain cubes are small and easy to carry but 1) really bad in turning and 2) pops up easily. There is a relatively small cube called Valk Mini. But, just regular cube is not that bad to carry. I always carry one cube with me so that I can play with it anywhere. I believe folks here all same.



Here is the MoYu keyring, it’s not bad as a ‘practise inconspicuously’ but very slow and liable to falling apart I suspect. Certainly what I expected and just about worth the £5 I paid! I just ordered the Valk Mini at £20 so it's double the price of my AuLong but I reckon it’ll be a good buy thanks for the suggestion


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## SpartanSailor (Jun 14, 2018)

xyzzy said:


> That's mostly my experience with cubing a few years ago too.
> 
> Big cubes (and OH) force you to turn slower, which makes it easier to track pieces, which improves your lookahead a bit. It does eventually reach a point where the lookahead you get from practising big cubes / OH isn't good enough to keep up with your full turning speed on 333, though. I used to have better lookahead on 333 after doing big cubes exclusively for a few days, but nowadays the opposite happens to me.
> 
> ...


My 333 turning is much too fast for my look ahead... I try to slow down to reduce pauses, but still struggle to keep up. If I’m focused I am able to improve a little. Ive accepted that my progress is incrimental at this point, rather that large improvements. 

OH for me is so slow that I can see multiple pairings at a time and mentally struggle to choose the pair I want first, rather than just finding a pair at all! Hahahah.


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## pglewis (Jun 15, 2018)

40yearstosolve said:


> So is there any hope for me? Can I ever achieve a sub 1 minute?
> 
> How I solve is (please don’t laugh)...
> 
> ...



Early on it's all about learning the ropes. Use a scramble generator to get comfortable making arbitrary face turns. It'll be slow at first but you'll also be practicing reading notation, it'll get faster. Finger-trick practice won't hurt a bit at this stage, you're basically learning the alphabet. Especially get comfortable with M, M', and M2 slices, they're incredibly useful and they were awkward for a while for me, personally. Time will melt off surprisingly quickly with practice, the more time you shave off your solves the more solves you'll get during your practice sessions.

I agree with other advice out there to ditch the daisy step early and learn how to solve the first four white edges straight to the bottom. This is an easy habit to break at this stage. As you progress, a lot comes down to what you're able to see and solving the "cross" on the bottom means you're displacing other edges from the bottom that you need to see for the next step.

Next, I would learn F2L instead of doing corners then edges. If you pay close attention to exactly what happens when you do step 4 you'll see that you remove a corner you'd solved earlier, pair it with the edge you're about to insert, then put them in place together. F2L just connects a corner/edge and solves them as a single entity, cutting your work in half. If things are still a little dodgy doing corners first then I'd say you're fine sticking with it long enough that it's reasonably comfortable... but the moment it is reasonably comfortable, ditch it for F2L. It's a dead-end with zero advantage other than being quicker/easier to learn.

Step 5 is called "OLL" (orient the last layer) and Step 6 "PLL" (permute the last layer). You can get a lot faster without changing what you're doing here. I would add another PLL whenever your current set of algs is comfortable and not at risk of being forgotten. For OLLs, most people first focus on the 7 "OCLL" algs that just deal with the cases where all 4 top edges are already oriented. No big rush in my opinion as the first two layers is likely to be the biggest bottleneck for a while.

I just accepted OLLs and PLLs as "magic" for a while. Somewhere along the way things started clicking more intuitively, as my 3D IQ improved and I did a lot of F2L practice. A lot of OLLs are just taking a pair or pairs out and reinserting them in different ways (trace what Sune does with the pair in the front-right slot). Whether or not I understand what a particular OLL or PLL does I still _treat_ them as magic without thinking. For solving quickly you want to reach a state of "don't think, just do".


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## newtonbase (Jun 15, 2018)

Posted this in the wrong thread yesterday. 

MBLD PB 7/7 39:00 (29:06)
Been getting annoyed at failures on my 10 cube attempts so went a bit smaller. Still good practice. Went super safe on memo and execution. Previous bests 5/5 and 7/9.


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## SpartanSailor (Jun 15, 2018)

Nicely done. Seems like going from 7 to 10 would be a pretty big jump.


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## openseas (Jun 15, 2018)

newtonbase said:


> Posted this in the wrong thread yesterday.
> 
> MBLD PB 7/7 39:00 (29:06)
> Been getting annoyed at failures on my 10 cube attempts so went a bit smaller. Still good practice. Went super safe on memo and execution. Previous bests 5/5 and 7/9.



Wow, great!

I have two attempts left this weekend. Last chance for Nats qual.


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## newtonbase (Jun 15, 2018)

Lkkkkxcsrdxv x v have t bgbvc., x v v gnu g


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## 40yearstosolve (Jun 15, 2018)

pglewis said:


> Early on it's all about learning the ropes. Use a scramble generator to get comfortable making arbitrary face turns. It'll be slow at first but you'll also be practicing reading notation, it'll get faster. Finger-trick practice won't hurt a bit at this stage, you're basically learning the alphabet. Especially get comfortable with M, M', and M2 slices, they're incredibly useful and they were awkward for a while for me, personally. Time will melt off surprisingly quickly with practice, the more time you shave off your solves the more solves you'll get during your practice sessions.
> 
> I agree with other advice out there to ditch the daisy step early and learn how to solve the first four white edges straight to the bottom. This is an easy habit to break at this stage. As you progress, a lot comes down to what you're able to see and solving the "cross" on the bottom means you're displacing other edges from the bottom that you need to see for the next step.
> 
> ...



Superb advice pglewis thank you. I must admit I had a bad few days this week, where I totally forgot when to use the correct last two algos - it's like I went into a mental black hole. But just as odd I came out of that and realised what I was doing again last night.

One of the turn sequences I now do without really knowing what I am doing - so I used to know them as notation, but now I just turn them.

I am almost scared to change any part of what I know for fear of confusing myself and am tempted to retain what I do - even the daisy - until I can almost do my current method without thinking.

The bad habbit I have got into already is that the last four sequences, for the last layer, I have resorted to memorising just two of them - they are performed anti-clockwise/clockwise, but I have just memorised the clockwise version which I must repeat twice if for example it should have been the anti-clockwise that was performed. I know it's not ideal, but perhaps later I will memorise the others.

I will have a proper read of F2L which I remember reading is part of CFOP --I read the Wiki on this site which was amazingly detailed so need to revisit it and digest.

Is completing the first white square part of CFOP, or is there a separate sequence for that? As I understand it you don't complete that first side using an algo, it must be a technique because at that stage there are too many possibilities.

And I must remind myself that I didn't used to be able to complete the cube. I now can, and fairly consistently and most importantly without reading my notes. And recently have gone from 5 minutes to sub 3 minutes.

I reckon I solve somewhere between 10 and 30 times a day so if I keep this up surely it will begin to solidify in my mind.

Thanks again pglewis you have helped me reawaken and get reinspired, cheers.


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## newtonbase (Jun 15, 2018)

newtonbase said:


> Lkkkkxcsrdxv x v have t bgbvc., x v v gnu g


Apologies for nonsense post. My son got hold of the phone. He's also gained be a couple of new friends on Facebook


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## pglewis (Jun 15, 2018)

40yearstosolve said:


> I must admit I had a bad few days this week, where I totally forgot when to use the correct last two algos - it's like I went into a mental black hole. But just as odd I came out of that and realised what I was doing again last night.
> 
> One of the turn sequences I now do without really knowing what I am doing - so I used to know them as notation, but now I just turn them.



I got into speedsolving about two years ago and most of my PLLs are now fully in muscle memory. I can't transcribe the moves without breaking down what I'm doing slowly, which is difficult. Most of them I can't do one-handed for that reason. I have difficulty executing most of them unless I'm actually looking at the case they solve in a real-time solve, my muscle memory is triggered by the visual recognition (and I don't drill my algs like I should). It's a funny thing but familiar to anyone who has learned to play an instrument competently. 

I recently went through a spell where I started doing one of my G-Perms wrong out of the blue. It took me a few days of repeatedly making the same mistake to figure out which one it even was. Thinking is so removed from the equation for that step that I often forget or didn't even register what PLL I just used. But there was a time where I needed a cheat sheet and/or had to remember the individual moves. 



40yearstosolve said:


> I am almost scared to change any part of what I know for fear of confusing myself and am tempted to retain what I do - even the daisy - until I can almost do my current method without thinking.



I still say go ahead and bite the bullet on this one. I'll wager that within a week you'll be just as comfortable without the daisy step as you were with it though, like all new things you incorporate, it'll slow you down at first. 



40yearstosolve said:


> The bad habbit I have got into already is that the last four sequences, for the last layer, I have resorted to memorising just two of them - they are performed anti-clockwise/clockwise, but I have just memorised the clockwise version which I must repeat twice if for example it should have been the anti-clockwise that was performed. I know it's not ideal, but perhaps later I will memorise the others.



I don't think this is such a bad thing for the moment and I'm a proponent of using a cheat sheet for as long as needed when you tackle OCLL or new PLL algs. The vast majority of your time is likely tied-up solving the first two layers still. Extra steps in the last layer isn't a big cost right now so you're fine with that and willing to be lazy. As you progress, self preservation will kick in as those extra steps do start to matter more, you get tired of consulting a cheat sheet, and just plain ol' repetition solidifies them. My primary focus with a mid 20s average is _still_ improving F2L and my last layer has mostly just naturally progressed from doing solves and incrementally adding algs as I grew tired of extra steps. 



40yearstosolve said:


> I will have a proper read of F2L which I remember reading is part of CFOP --I read the Wiki on this site which was amazingly detailed so need to revisit it and digest.
> 
> Is completing the first white square part of CFOP, or is there a separate sequence for that? As I understand it you don't complete that first side using an algo, it must be a technique because at that stage there are too many possibilities.



I believe what you're doing now is a form of "layer by layer" (LBL), and it's effectively CFOP already IMO... you just turn every F2L case into the single "corner solved, edge in the top layer" case by solving corners first in an extra step. CFOP solves the 4 bottom edges first (cross), then solves the the rest of the first two layers as 4 columns, or "slots", by pairing a bottom corner with a middle-layer edge and putting them in place as a pair. 

On a solved cube with yellow top and green front, do R U R'. That will take out the green/orange pair from the front right slot and place it in the top layer. Put the pair back in via R U' R'. That's pretty much the easiest case, you've just solved an F2L pair. There are a lot of F2L cases but they can be generalized some and solved intuitively; you don't have to memorize the 42 cases listed on the wiki in order to get started. Eventually you do want to treat them like "algs" in the sense that you just do them automatically but like all things, that'll come with practice. 



40yearstosolve said:


> And I must remind myself that I didn't used to be able to complete the cube. I now can, and fairly consistently and most importantly without reading my notes. And recently have gone from 5 minutes to sub 3 minutes.
> 
> I reckon I solve somewhere between 10 and 30 times a day so if I keep this up surely it will begin to solidify in my mind.



As you approach 2 1/2 mins you're getting twice as many solves during your allotted practice time than when you were at 5 mins. The extra practice makes you faster, which in turn gives you more solves... it can snowball.


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## newtonbase (Jun 15, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> Nicely done. Seems like going from 7 to 10 would be a pretty big jump.


It's not as big as you might think. The biggest issue is time. I've gone slightly over the hour 3 times in 11 attempts at 10 cubes and they were just bad days where I'd have struggled on anything.


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## Mike Hughey (Jun 15, 2018)

newtonbase said:


> Apologies for nonsense post. My son got hold of the phone. He's also gained be a couple of new friends on Facebook


I'm happy to hear this. After I saw your post and that One Wheel liked it, I was afraid I was just missing out on some new method of communication among cubers, so I was feeling old, even on this thread. 



newtonbase said:


> It's not as big as you might think. The biggest issue is time. I've gone slightly over the hour 3 times in 11 attempts at 10 cubes and they were just bad days where I'd have struggled on anything.


I agree that jumping from 7 to 10 wasn't that hard - at least for me. On the other hand, increasing upward from 10 has been quite challenging for me. I've been averaging about 1 cube per year that I've actively tried (although it seems like I'm going through a bit of a jump in ability lately, which is nice).


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## megagoune (Jun 15, 2018)

40yearstosolve said:


> Fascinating. Do you download each timing and collate them all manually?


I just keep using the same session in cstimer. I am now at 5000 solves (maybe 4 to 5 months). From the website you can export all the times to a csv file at once. I then open the file in excel to create the chart.


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## pglewis (Jun 15, 2018)

newtonbase said:


> Apologies for nonsense post. My son got hold of the phone. He's also gained be a couple of new friends on Facebook



My initial thought was "what the heck letter/memo scheme is *that*?"


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## h2f (Jun 15, 2018)

newtonbase said:


> Apologies for nonsense post. My son got hold of the phone. He's also gained be a couple of new friends on Facebook



 I liked the "Lkkkkxcsrdxv x v have t bgbvc., x v v gnu g" post. Seemed very funny.


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## newtonbase (Jun 15, 2018)

Mike Hughey said:


> I agree that jumping from 7 to 10 wasn't that hard - at least for me. On the other hand, increasing upward from 10 has been quite challenging for me. I've been averaging about 1 cube per year that I've actively tried (although it seems like I'm going through a bit of a jump in ability lately, which is nice).


I'd hope to improve by more than a cube a year but it has been a year since I first got 5 points!
I really need to work out how to get my letter pairs into Anki. The instructions I found were bewildering.im not doing it a pair at a time.


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## 40yearstosolve (Jun 15, 2018)

pglewis said:


> I got into speedsolving about two years ago and most of my PLLs are now fully in muscle memory. I can't transcribe the moves without breaking down what I'm doing slowly, which is difficult. Most of them I can't do one-handed for that reason. I have difficulty executing most of them unless I'm actually looking at the case they solve in a real-time solve, my muscle memory is triggered by the visual recognition (and I don't drill my algs like I should). It's a funny thing but familiar to anyone who has learned to play an instrument competently.
> 
> I recently went through a spell where I started doing one of my G-Perms wrong out of the blue. It took me a few days of repeatedly making the same mistake to figure out which one it even was. Thinking is so removed from the equation for that step that I often forget or didn't even register what PLL I just used. But there was a time where I needed a cheat sheet and/or had to remember the individual moves.
> 
> ...



Amazing post, so much motivation for me there thank you for all of that it is hugely appreciated, MASSIVELY so!

So, after I replied to your earlier post I immediately researched the cross without the daisy and following the principles I found from this kind chap on Youtube. And now I can’t even remember how I did the daisy - in fact I didn’t have a technique for the daisy, I just used to do it instinctively (which is to say ham fistedly). So now doing the cross as my first step I at least have a method I now follow. I’ll do some timings in the morning when the beer has worn off 





—hoping these are good principles to follow, I at least understand these even if they aren’t the best.

Thanks again for the reply, I’ll be re-reading it several times.

Have a great weekend, cheers


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## mark49152 (Jun 15, 2018)

Mike Hughey said:


> I agree that jumping from 7 to 10 wasn't that hard - at least for me. On the other hand, increasing upward from 10 has been quite challenging for me. I've been averaging about 1 cube per year that I've actively tried (although it seems like I'm going through a bit of a jump in ability lately, which is nice).


I agree, except with a different limit. I think adding more cubes is quite easy while maintaining the same comfortable pace, up until you hit the time limit. After that, adding more cubes means going faster, and that is the hard part. I am finding it difficult to push MBLD memo pace without seriously losing accuracy.


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## Mike Hughey (Jun 15, 2018)

mark49152 said:


> I agree, except with a different limit. I think adding more cubes is quite easy while maintaining the same comfortable pace, up until you hit the time limit. After that, adding more cubes means going faster, and that is the hard part. I am finding it difficult to push MBLD memo pace without seriously losing accuracy.


Yes, I guess that's really it. I hit my easy limit at 10 cubes, way back in 2009. After that, it was a slow creep up from there. Except I just recently had a sudden jump, from where 14 cubes was my absolute limit to where 16 cubes is my absolute limit, very suddenly. And the encouraging thing for me is that my 3x3x3 BLD average speed is currently about 30 seconds slower than my fastest speed was when I was at my peak, so I'm hopeful that getting my regular 3x3x3 BLD speed back up would be enough to get me to 18 or 19 cubes - maybe even give me a shot at 20.


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## SpartanSailor (Jun 16, 2018)

newtonbase said:


> I'd hope to improve by more than a cube a year but it has been a year since I first got 5 points!
> I really need to work out how to get my letter pairs into Anki. The instructions I found were bewildering.im not doing it a pair at a time.


How do points work for MBLD?


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## Duncan Bannon (Jun 16, 2018)

1 point for each success and negative point for each unsolved cube. So 9/10=8 or 4/7=1


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## SpartanSailor (Jun 16, 2018)

So, 2/4 = 0 and 1/2 = 1?

So in theory, 3/3 for 3pts would beat 3/5 or even 5/8 because those only yield 2pts?


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## Mike Hughey (Jun 16, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> So, 2/4 = 0 and 1/2 = 1?


2/4 = 0, yes.
1/2 actually is DNF. It would be 0 (1 solved minus 1 unsolved equals 0), but we figure that means "you didn't solve multiple cubes blindfolded", so it's a DNF.



SpartanSailor said:


> So in theory, 3/3 for 3pts would beat 3/5 or even 5/8 because those only yield 2pts?


Yes. Except 3/5 is 3 -2 = 1 point.
5/8 is indeed 5 - 3 = 2 points.


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## Duncan Bannon (Jun 16, 2018)

If I'm correct, a 0 points would be a DNF. And 3/3 is better than a 3/5 and 5/8.

E-Mike Hughey got you


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## SpartanSailor (Jun 16, 2018)

Mike Hughey said:


> 2/4 = 0, yes.
> 1/2 actually is DNF. It would be 0 (1 solved minus 1 unsolved equals 0), but we figure that means "you didn't solve multiple cubes blindfolded", so it's a DNF.
> 
> 
> ...


1/2 = DNF makes sense... and sorry for the bad math on 3/5.


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## SpartanSailor (Jun 16, 2018)

Just did a 5:09 3BLD. Pretty decent. Preceded by a fairly significant DNF spell... but felt good. Had the FU/DB swap and a parity using M2. So... although there is a comp this weekend, there’s no blind events. I’m actually more interested in the NEXT event two weeks later. 

I felt like that was a decently difficult memo and took a bit longer than I would have liked. The execution moved along well enuff.


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## mark49152 (Jun 16, 2018)

Duncan Bannon said:


> If I'm correct, a 0 points would be a DNF.


0 points is a valid result. Only negative points or 1/2 is DNF.


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## One Wheel (Jun 16, 2018)

Mike Hughey said:


> I'm happy to hear this. After I saw your post and that One Wheel liked it, I was afraid I was just missing out on some new method of communication among cubers, so I was feeling old, even on this thread.



I figured it was either a young child, a phone in the pocket, or a stroke. 2/3 it's not a medical emergency, maybe not the safest "like", but hey, sometimes you gotta live on the edge. 

In unrelated news: I've not been practicing much the last few days, and not blind for several weeks. I made two 3BLD attempts yesterday, both 5:2x, both ended with the buffer solved and 3 other edges off. All corners were correct. I should go back through the scrambles to figure out whether it's a tracing or a memo error. Encouraging, though. I'm up to 68 attempts in cstimer, 2 successes. I'm getting closer.


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## Logiqx (Jun 16, 2018)

40yearstosolve said:


> So is there any hope for me? Can I ever achieve a sub 1 minute



Welcome to the thread!

I first learnt to solve the cube at over 40 and now 45-ish (well for another 2-3 weeks). The guys on this thread provided me with the inspiration / motivation to practice and get faster.

With practice you'll definitely get under a minute but by that time you probably want to be using intuitive F2L and 4-look last layer. You will get plenty of tips and good guidance on this thread. For now it's all about practicing what you know. 

Now for a one-handed update from a windless beach in Rhodes - 15.92 single, 21.08 Ao5, 22.89 Ao12, 23.84 Ao50. Smashing it with PBs outside of competition.


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## pglewis (Jun 16, 2018)

Logiqx said:


> Now for a one-handed update from a windless beach in Rhodes - 15.92 single, 21.08 Ao5, 22.89 Ao12, 23.84 Ao50. Smashing it with PBs outside of competition.



I kinda figured this was coming. My regular 3x3 and your OH were really really close but I'd gotten a little ahead of you... except the Ao50, I really admire your consistency (even if it's conspiring to keep you from that sub 10 single).


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## pglewis (Jun 16, 2018)

40yearstosolve said:


> Amazing post, so much motivation for me there thank you for all of that it is hugely appreciated, MASSIVELY so!
> 
> So, after I replied to your earlier post I immediately researched the cross without the daisy and following the principles I found from this kind chap on Youtube. And now I can’t even remember how I did the daisy - in fact I didn’t have a technique for the daisy, I just used to do it instinctively (which is to say ham fistedly). So now doing the cross as my first step I at least have a method I now follow. I’ll do some timings in the morning when the beer has worn off
> 
> ...



JPerm is one of the best out there right now for tutorials IMO, this one should give you a lot to go on and will probably be worth repeated viewing:


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## SpartanSailor (Jun 16, 2018)

Went to the Rally in the Valley today and did very poorly. Only got one PB and that’s because I did OH for the first time. Hahahaha

3x3 went even worse than normal. Typical good times during warmup and choking during comp. 

2x2 was the worst I’ve done since I learned how to do it. Adding insult to injury, all morning I never exceeded 7s , yet in the comp only got one sub-7. Honestly it was a mess. 

4x4 had a cutoff of 1:15. My first solve felt pretty good, but came in at 1:21. My second was off to a rough start then i somehow twisted my white/yellow centers and they got all messed up. I was still finishing centers and saw 50s on the timer. Not a chance I was going to get that whole thing fixed and solved 25 seconds remaining, so I took the DNF. Didn’t get to do the average. 

Sadly no 3BLD today, although I got a couple good distraction practice successes. That’s probably the highlight of the day. 

Pyra—well... was pyra. I don’t practice so just do that one to remind myself it’s all for fun and really... no one cares about my times except me. Having only done it a couple previous times in comp, I’d say overall it was about what I’d expect. There were 83 people competing in pyra and I finished 79. So... not dead last. 

OH—actually went decently. I don’t have OH optimized algs and can’t remember most of my OLLs and PLLs (they just happen by recognition and muscle memory) so I was basically doing a modified 4LLL... more like 6LLL. HAHAHAHA. Still managed a 1:04 single. Again, didn’t make the 45s cutoff so only got two attempts. 

I’m looking forward to the Maryland 2018 comp... 3BLD early in the day and that’s my main focus for the weekend. Still haven’t added MBLD to my events, but since it’s on Sunday, I may as well... it would be my only event and I’m interested to give an official attempt at it.


----------



## SpartanSailor (Jun 16, 2018)

pglewis said:


> JPerm is one of the best out there right now for tutorials IMO, this one should give you a lot to go on and will probably be worth repeated viewing:


Agreed about JPerm and his videos. I think he does a good job of explaining. Too many videos are just, “Soooooo do this. Yeah, do that. That’s what I do...” with no real explaining. 

JPerm shows what is happening to the cube which helps me understand what’s being covered in his tutorial even more. I have learned a lot from his videos. Highly recommended.


----------



## Mike Hughey (Jun 17, 2018)

Still surprising myself with multi. I just got 13/16 in 59:50.66 [41:07.10]. Yes, I stopped the clock with less than 10 seconds left. I knew one of the cubes was wrong, because my edge memorization conflicted with itself. That was cube 15; somehow my edge memory totally failed to match the scramble, although my corner memorization was completely correct. I have no idea how that happened. Anyway, I wasted at least an extra minute on that cube trying to figure it out, and yet still had enough time for everything. That cube was off by 7 edges. The other two that were wrong was cube 1 with two twisted corners because I forgot there was a corner twist there, and cube 4 with 3 edges wrong because I memorized the wrong letter for the last sticker. All things told, a surprisingly close attempt at 16!


----------



## JanW (Jun 17, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> Agreed about JPerm and his videos. I think he does a good job of explaining. Too many videos are just, “Soooooo do this. Yeah, do that. That’s what I do...” with no real explaining.


Yes, there's a lot of videos that fail to explain things properly. JPerm has many good videos, but I'm not a very big fan of his intuitive F2L tutorial. He goes through it way too quickly imo, especially for a beginner to follow.

@40yearstosolve, like someone here said earlier, it is very much worth it to start looking into F2L as soon as possible. For me, learning about intuitive F2L was the big aha-moment that got me properly interested in cubing. Until then I had been doing layer by layer, just like you are, and I had seen algorithm sheets for more advanced methods. Specifically a list that had something like 96 different algorithms for F2L. I felt I would never ever be able to learn something like that and hence thought I could never get fast. Then I watched one video on intuitive F2L, which showed that I don't need to know 96 or whatever cases, but only three. On top of that, I did not need to learn any algorithms to solve any of these three cases, they could all be solved intuitively. This was many years ago and I'm not 100% sure which video I watched, but I think it was this one:






Now when I watched it many years later, I see some things that I might have explained differently, but overall I think it is very good with slow and clear instructions. While I have developed quite a few tricks over the past couple of years to improve on F2L, they have all been developed from the basic principles taught in that video. Give it a shot and maybe it will also take your cubing to the next level.  And of course feel free to ask if the video leaves something unclear.


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## Logiqx (Jun 17, 2018)

pglewis said:


> I kinda figured this was coming. My regular 3x3 and your OH were really really close but I'd gotten a little ahead of you... except the Ao50, I really admire your consistency (even if it's conspiring to keep you from that sub 10 single).



Building on my times yesterday, I've just pulled off a 20.88 Ao5 and 22.56 Ao12.

Lack of wind is proving bad for my windsurfing training but good for OH practice!

Sub-20 full step solves are becoming more common and a sub-20 Ao5 seems like a possibility for the future.

Over to you.


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## SpartanSailor (Jun 17, 2018)

JanW said:


> Yes, there's a lot of videos that fail to explain things properly. JPerm has many good videos, but I'm not a very big fan of his intuitive F2L tutorial. He goes through it way too quickly imo, especially for a beginner to follow.
> 
> @40yearstosolve, like someone here said earlier, it is very much worth it to start looking into F2L as soon as possible. For me, learning about intuitive F2L was the big aha-moment that got me properly interested in cubing. Until then I had been doing layer by layer, just like you are, and I had seen algorithm sheets for more advanced methods. Specifically a list that had something like 96 different algorithms for F2L. I felt I would never ever be able to learn something like that and hence thought I could never get fast. Then I watched one video on intuitive F2L, which showed that I don't need to know 96 or whatever cases, but only three. On top of that, I did not need to learn any algorithms to solve any of these three cases, they could all be solved intuitively. This was many years ago and I'm not 100% sure which video I watched, but I think it was this one:
> 
> ...


I think this is the video I first learned intuitive f2l from as well. 

I like JPerm videos too, but agree that he sometimes covers things quickly. I usually watch his videos a few times to get everything.


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## h2f (Jun 17, 2018)

Quick report about my Project 588. After 2 months I did 184 of 588 5bld solves. Accuracy has grown from 8% (11/135) to 14 in this month (7/49). Memo time in this week is down to 7:40 but execution is up to ~ 7:20 due to pauses when figuring out memo. Without pauses its around 5 minutes now.


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## SpartanSailor (Jun 17, 2018)

h2f said:


> Quick report about my Project 588. After 2 months I did 184 of 588 5bld solves. Accuracy has grown from 8% (11/135) to 14 in this month (7/49). Memo time in this week is down to 7:40 but execution is up to ~ 7:20 due to pauses when figuring out memo. Without pauses its around 5 minutes now.


I’m thinking I may have to undertake a project 200 for 3BLD or something similar. 

Well done to you. Encouraging to see you’re improvement. Do you have a desired outcome goal, or just to see where you get after 588 solves?


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## h2f (Jun 17, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> Well done to you. Encouraging to see you’re improvement. Do you have a desired outcome goal, or just to see where you get after 588 solves?



There are two goals:
- to get qualification for Polish Nationals (it's enough to solve 5bld during competion);
- to make a solve during PN (maybe it's enough to get medal). There's 45 minutes limit and I want to make 3 attempts. I'm very close to this now. 

But I have a goal for every month. In this month is to be with memo time under 8 minutes; and to get accuracy over 10%. In global terms I've started to think I'll be able to solve under 10 minutes. 



SpartanSailor said:


> I’m thinking I may have to undertake a project 200 for 3BLD or something similar.



When I've started 3bld I tired to do 5 solves per day. It gave me a bronze medal with 2:2x solve after 10 months of practicing. Of course 5 solves were only beginnig - when you get familiar with 3bld you will find it quite easy.


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## SpartanSailor (Jun 17, 2018)

h2f said:


> When I've started 3bld I tired to do 5 solves per day. It gave me a bronze medal with 2:2x solve after 10 months of practicing. Of course 5 solves were only beginnig - when you get familiar with 3bld you will find it quite easy.



I could mangage 5 blind solves a day. I’ll take a sub-4 to qualify to U.S. Nationals, but I’d need a low 1:xx to “medal” or place at nearly any comp. I’d say there may be about a dozen or so blind solvers that attend comps in my area. That’s not too many, but they are mostly sub-2 for 3BLD. 

I have a LONG way to go to even get sub-4 in competition, but I’m making progress. A couple weeks ago I finally started working on M2 edges and figured out how to get splits using csTimer. So, I can track my memo time and execution to find improvements and save time.


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## openseas (Jun 17, 2018)

Western championship is almost over - both Jeff and I did badly, triple dnf'd even before the official comp started (staff competition, a day before), pretty much irrelevant after that. But had a good time with Keaton and east coast folks and all west coast BLDers. Jeff and Daniel did two man 3BLD relay, UWR? like 37s, all top BLDers did 8 man relay - it was so hard to get a success, lol.

The only thing I was able to get was MBLD official 6 points, 7/8, finally qualified for Nats. I haven't done much of MBLD but since my 3BLD time was good enough for 10 cubes, tried to focus on accuracy, didn't care about time but always had couple of execution errors here and there. The one DNF from a corner comm - executed reverse way. Felt something weird but couldn't do much. After that, switched everything to OP. I didn't even use any of twist/flip alg, just afraid of any more errors. Anyway, it was one year kinda anniversary of the start of the very first home MBLD attempt (lower part of the picture). 

Now, I can pursue 10+ cubes, less worrying about accuracy.


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## h2f (Jun 18, 2018)

Congrats Jae, @openseas.


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## muchacho (Jun 18, 2018)

Logiqx said:


> Building on my times yesterday, I've just pulled off a 20.88 Ao5 and 22.56 Ao12.
> 
> Lack of wind is proving bad for my windsurfing training but good for OH practice!
> 
> ...


20.583 Ao5, but next day with no wind I'll be toasted.



Spoiler



13016 18-jun-2018 13:53:21 00:24.271 R2 D' B2 D' B2 L2 B2 R2 U B2 U2 L D2 L D U' R B' F2 R2 L' D2
13015 18-jun-2018 13:52:36 00:22.039 B2 U2 L2 D R2 D B2 U' R2 B2 D R' F2 L' U' F' U' R D' U' R
13014 18-jun-2018 13:51:48 00:18.436 U' L2 B2 L2 U' B2 D' L2 F2 D2 B2 L' B D F2 L2 F R D' U R U2
13013 18-jun-2018 13:51:06 00:19.015 R2 U' B2 D B2 L2 F2 U' B2 D' R F' D' L2 F D' L2 D2 F' L' U2
13012 18-jun-2018 13:50:26 00:20.695 U' L2 F2 L2 D' F2 D2 U' F2 D2 F2 R' F U' R D' L' F2 R U2 B U'


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## Jason Green (Jun 18, 2018)

openseas said:


> Western championship is almost over - both Jeff and I did badly, triple dnf'd even before the official comp started (staff competition, a day before), pretty much irrelevant after that. But had a good time with Keaton and east coast folks and all west coast BLDers. Jeff and Daniel did two man 3BLD relay, UWR? like 37s, all top BLDers did 8 man relay - it was so hard to get a success, lol.
> 
> The only thing I was able to get was MBLD official 6 points, 7/8, finally qualified for Nats. I haven't done much of MBLD but since my 3BLD time was good enough for 10 cubes, tried to focus on accuracy, didn't care about time but always had couple of execution errors here and there. The one DNF from a corner comm - executed reverse way. Felt something weird but couldn't do much. After that, switched everything to OP. I didn't even use any of twist/flip alg, just afraid of any more errors. Anyway, it was one year kinda anniversary of the start of the very first home MBLD attempt (lower part of the picture).
> 
> ...


Congrats Jae! Great work on MBLD!!


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## Logiqx (Jun 18, 2018)

muchacho said:


> 20.583 Ao5, but next day with no wind I'll be toasted.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Nice work. Today had enough wind to keep me from cubing.

I guess we're racing to sub-20 Ao5.


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## SpartanSailor (Jun 18, 2018)

Haven’t been practicing much 3BLD lately, but did get 5 practice solves in today. 2/5 success. The first two were success followed by a complete corner memo dump (DNF) and then a twisted corner and I dropped the cube mid-alg during corners... No way that was going to turn out well. All in all, 40% success rate today is good by me. Times were slower than I would prefer, but fine for today. Lots of room to improve my memo and still plenty of time to improve my execution—especially the M2 edges. I still have to think about setups during execution which is much slower for now. The upside, speed will come with practice in execution.


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## mark49152 (Jun 18, 2018)

Mike Hughey said:


> Still surprising myself with multi. I just got 13/16 in 59:50.66 [41:07.10]. Yes, I stopped the clock with less than 10 seconds left. I knew one of the cubes was wrong, because my edge memorization conflicted with itself. That was cube 15; somehow my edge memory totally failed to match the scramble, although my corner memorization was completely correct. I have no idea how that happened. Anyway, I wasted at least an extra minute on that cube trying to figure it out, and yet still had enough time for everything. That cube was off by 7 edges. The other two that were wrong was cube 1 with two twisted corners because I forgot there was a corner twist there, and cube 4 with 3 edges wrong because I memorized the wrong letter for the last sticker. All things told, a surprisingly close attempt at 16!


Since you're upping the game, Mike...


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## Mike Hughey (Jun 18, 2018)

Wow, Mark, impressive! 20 still seems very far away for me.


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## SpartanSailor (Jun 18, 2018)

@mark49152 that is seriously impressive.


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## Logiqx (Jun 18, 2018)

@mark49152 - I'm not sure why you have a downvote on YT but congrats on the attempt!


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## Mike Hughey (Jun 18, 2018)

Logiqx said:


> @mark49152 - I'm not sure why you have a downvote on YT but congrats on the attempt!


A downvote?!? That is really bizarre. I would think the only person who could possibly downvote it would be me (since I want to try to top Mark at official over-40 multiBLD, and this video shows how unlikely that is).  And I wasn't the one who downvoted it. No really. Honest! You've gotta believe me...


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## pglewis (Jun 18, 2018)

Logiqx said:


> Building on my times yesterday, I've just pulled off a 20.88 Ao5 and 22.56 Ao12.
> 
> Lack of wind is proving bad for my windsurfing training but good for OH practice!
> 
> ...



I'm really due again soon but I'm still fighting consistency issues / mistakes. Landed a 17.9 full step yesterday, followed up with a :32 with 6 F2L pairs and the wrong OLL . It's still going the right direction overall. 



Logiqx said:


> @mark49152 - I'm not sure why you have a downvote on YT but congrats on the attempt!



Haters gonna hate.


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## moralsh (Jun 18, 2018)

That downvote is probably because of that moving coffee mug   Serious stuff Mark.

Also Jae, Nice official multi (I really need to go back to Multi some day).

I had my 3rd Comp in 3 months (again with no practice  ) and last one before Euros. Some unexpected problems prevented me from going both days, but the day I went was pretty productive.

I had 8/10 parities (5 OLL), a pop, and a stackmat DNF in a horrible 4x4 average (1:2x). The usual meh results at categories I only do on comps (2x2, pyra and skewb) a bad 2:05 on 3BLD and then a totally unexpected 31.5 OH average with a 19.18 single (PLL skip).

Then, on 3x3, I had a +2 which prevented me the pure sub 20 avg I still don't have and a very, very nice single 13.09 PLL skip.

It's funny how I can be 2.5 years without breaking a 15.31 single and then the 14.81 only lasts one comp.

One month left for Euros, I really hope those of you who can come here like what we are doing there  we're a bit stressed but really hope everything turns out ok


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## mark49152 (Jun 18, 2018)

Raul @moralsh, nice single! And yeah I am very much looking forward to Euros. It will be great 

I have a question about MBLD: will there be a cut-off for the 2nd or 3rd attempts like there was at Worlds? For travel reasons, I might have to DNS my 1st attempt.



Logiqx said:


> @mark49152 - I'm not sure why you have a downvote on YT but congrats on the attempt!


Must be for those DNF cubes


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## h2f (Jun 18, 2018)

@mark49152, yes Mark it's very impressive. How do you practice mbld?


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## mark49152 (Jun 18, 2018)

h2f said:


> @mark49152, yes Mark it's very impressive. How do you practice mbld?


Recently I've been doing lots of small timed attempts (2 cubes) to push my memo pace. It's easier to push it and to measure it, on small attempts. When I go back to bigger attempts, the faster pace feels more comfortable.


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## newtonbase (Jun 18, 2018)

mark49152 said:


> Recently I've been doing lots of small timed attempts (2 cubes) to push my memo pace. It's easier to push it and to measure it, on small attempts. When I go back to bigger attempts, the faster pace feels more comfortable.


I've been thinking about the benefits of smaller attempts myself recently. Once you have your rooms organised and know the best way to do your reviews I don't really see a benefit of doing a lot of big attempts. Once a week seems plenty. 
I was going to do a full attempt at lunch today but a trouser malfunction left me very short of time so I tried a fast 4 cube attempt. Got zero. A quick memo and one review isn't enough.


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## moralsh (Jun 18, 2018)

mark49152 said:


> I have a question about MBLD: will there be a cut-off for the 2nd or 3rd attempts like there was at Worlds? For travel reasons, I might have to DNS my 1st attempt.



No cut-off, you can do 2nd and 3rd even if you DNS the first one. If it's tight but you might arrive on time maybe you can send your cubes via another UK cuber and let him/her give us the cubes on your behalf.


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## mark49152 (Jun 19, 2018)

newtonbase said:


> I've been thinking about the benefits of smaller attempts myself recently. Once you have your rooms organised and know the best way to do your reviews I don't really see a benefit of doing a lot of big attempts. Once a week seems plenty.


Yep I agree. At least, that's my current approach. Small attempts are easier to fit in to a busy schedule too.



moralsh said:


> No cut-off, you can do 2nd and 3rd even if you DNS the first one. If it's tight but you might arrive on time maybe you can send your cubes via another UK cuber and let him/her give us the cubes on your behalf.


That's good, thanks.


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## openseas (Jun 19, 2018)

Jason Green said:


> Congrats Jae! Great work on MBLD!



Thanks @h2f & @Jason Green

@Jason Green / Are you coming to 6/30 competition? The venue is really close to your home.



mark49152 said:


> Since you're upping the game, Mike...



Wow, great job!


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## Jason Green (Jun 19, 2018)

openseas said:


> Thanks @h2f & @Jason Green
> 
> @Jason Green / Are you coming to 6/30 competition? The venue is really close to your home.
> 
> ...


It's on my calendar so I'm hoping to be there!


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## h2f (Jun 19, 2018)

mark49152 said:


> Recently I've been doing lots of small timed attempts (2 cubes) to push my memo pace. It's easier to push it and to measure it, on small attempts. When I go back to bigger attempts, the faster pace feels more comfortable.



Intresting and inspiring. Thanks. I've noticed that when I have a lot of details in my room/loci the memo is much easier to do and to recall.


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## mark49152 (Jun 19, 2018)

h2f said:


> I've noticed that when I have a lot of details in my room/loci the memo is much easier to do and to recall.


Yes, clear visualisation is key. For the first 3 months of the year I practised mostly 3BLD and I think it damaged my memo for big BLD and MBLD. The reason is that to get faster at 3BLD my memo became more sentence-based with less clear and detailed visualisation, to save time. At first it was hard to push MBLD memo without the same habit, and my accuracy was poor. I have had to re-learn how to memo faster while keeping clear visualisation.


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## Mike Hughey (Jun 19, 2018)

I agree that better visualization helps me very much, and if my memory isn't very visual, I tend to do a lot worse. But I also know that Mark Boyanowski (current multiBLD WR holder) says his memorization is primarily sentence-based. He tried to visualize but says his mind doesn't work that way. He talked to Marcin about it, who said he also tends to memorize primarily sentence-based. So perhaps it's not so important to have clear visualization to be at the very top of multiBLD, considering the current official top 2 in the world claim they don't really do it?


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## mark49152 (Jun 19, 2018)

Mike Hughey said:


> So perhaps it's not so important to have clear visualization to be at the very top of multiBLD, considering the current official top 2 in the world claim they don't really do it?


Different approaches suit different people I guess, but my theory is that image-based memo is a mix of both. 

Each scene has a sentence that helps me recall the correct words literally and retrieve the letter pairs. There is a rhythm to the sentence that helps a little with recall. Remembering lots of sentences accurately is hard, and vivid visualisation helps me recall every word, as well as to recall them in the correct rooms. But when recalling, I have to repeat the sentence back to extract the pairs. The sentence structure also helps me get the order of words right.

During the process of memo, the sentence comes first as I trace the pairs off the cube. It then takes a little time to visualise it vividly. When rushing memo, it's the visualisation step I tend to weaken most, which is OK for 3BLD but impacts my MBLD quite badly. (That is how I got such a poor result at Guildford, 12/20.)


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## h2f (Jun 19, 2018)

@mark49152, @Mike Hughey I meant details in room when I put images/words. It's very interesting what you both write. I'm not sure how it works for me, if I feel better with words and sentences or with images. More often I do senteces but visualisation of them helps a lot. There's one more thing. I've heard that Kaijun memorize with certain order: word 1 connects with word 2; word 3 with word 4. And he puts it a one room. For example ANt takes Mona Lisa and SPider catches CoW - which makes 4 pairs. I'm not sure if he does it but I try to follow this rule for last 5 days and it easier for me to recall memo with it than if I do a sentences with no such order.


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## 40yearstosolve (Jun 19, 2018)

JanW said:


> Yes, there's a lot of videos that fail to explain things properly. JPerm has many good videos, but I'm not a very big fan of his intuitive F2L tutorial. He goes through it way too quickly imo, especially for a beginner to follow.
> 
> @40yearstosolve, like someone here said earlier, it is very much worth it to start looking into F2L as soon as possible. For me, learning about intuitive F2L was the big aha-moment that got me properly interested in cubing. Until then I had been doing layer by layer, just like you are, and I had seen algorithm sheets for more advanced methods. Specifically a list that had something like 96 different algorithms for F2L. I felt I would never ever be able to learn something like that and hence thought I could never get fast. Then I watched one video on intuitive F2L, which showed that I don't need to know 96 or whatever cases, but only three. On top of that, I did not need to learn any algorithms to solve any of these three cases, they could all be solved intuitively. This was many years ago and I'm not 100% sure which video I watched, but I think it was this one:
> 
> ...



Thank you JanW I will digest that video. Whilst I can see improvements in my speed using my layer by layer method (using elements of CFOP) I can definitely see it limiting me, because of the sheer number of moves - some native to CFOP and some due to my more manual repetitive approach.

I’ve attached my last few solves, sometimes I get lucky and do a sub 3 minute, but most often it hovers around four minutes.

I do have to remind myself it is amazing that I can solve it without any cheat sheets, sonfor that I am so pleased and still get a buzz each time I see six shiny single-coloured sides 

I’ll definitely use that video JanW and I am extremely grateful for your taking the time thanks for that again


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## mark49152 (Jun 19, 2018)

h2f said:


> There's one more thing. I've heard that Kaijun memorize with certain order: word 1 connects with word 2; word 3 with word 4. And he puts it a one room. For example ANt takes Mona Lisa and SPider catches CoW - which makes 4 pairs. I'm not sure if he does it but I try to follow this rule for last 5 days and it easier for me to recall memo with it than if I do a sentences with no such order.


Yeah that helps too. I use patterns like that, but have several options. I usually have 5 elements (letter pairs) per image. Sometimes it will be [1,2] does 3 to [4,5]. Example from yesterday: a [mannequin in an x-wing] hands a pie to a [hen on a loco]. Or sometimes [1,2] and [3,4] do 5. I suppose that's a by-product of sentence structure, but there's always a pattern, which helps with visualisation, and it often has a kind of rhythm too.


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## newtonbase (Jun 19, 2018)

I can't remember if Tom Nelson's memo example got posted here. He makes it look very easy.


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## mark49152 (Jun 19, 2018)

3BLD PB... 38.15...! Try this, scrambled in your solving orientation: R2 L2 U2 L2 U' R2 D F2 U2 F2 U' R B R2 B R D' F R U2 R2


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## h2f (Jun 19, 2018)

mark49152 said:


> Yeah that helps too. I use patterns like that, but have several options. I usually have 5 elements (letter pairs) per image. Sometimes it will be [1,2] does 3 to [4,5]. Example from yesterday: a [mannequin in an x-wing] hands a pie to a [hen on a loco]. Or sometimes [1,2] and [3,4] do 5. I suppose that's a by-product of sentence structure, but there's always a pattern, which helps with visualisation, and it often has a kind of rhythm too.



I know what you mean. I do it for midges. For other targets I'll try to keep all in 4s excluding last image. 



newtonbase said:


> I can't remember if Tom Nelson's memo example got posted here. He makes it look very easy.



Yeah, thats very helpfull. After watching this I've started to add more details to my rooms.  



mark49152 said:


> 3BLD PB... 38.15...! Try this, scrambled in your solving orientation: R2 L2 U2 L2 U' R2 D F2 U2 F2 U' R B R2 B R D' F R U2 R2



Wow. 33.66 - first 3bld for weeks with my shitty comms for edges like y' [U' R2 U, M] because I used to do it for wings. Sad I cant count it.


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## newtonbase (Jun 19, 2018)

mark49152 said:


> 3BLD PB... 38.15...! Try this, scrambled in your solving orientation: R2 L2 U2 L2 U' R2 D F2 U2 F2 U' R B R2 B R D' F R U2 R2


Fast DNF. Used comms for all corners but made a memo error.


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## SpartanSailor (Jun 19, 2018)

mark49152 said:


> 3BLD PB... 38.15...! Try this, scrambled in your solving orientation: R2 L2 U2 L2 U' R2 D F2 U2 F2 U' R B R2 B R D' F R U2 R2


I just did the scramble... wow! I’ll save that for later and see what happens.


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## muchacho (Jun 19, 2018)

I'll try to get (this year) a sub-20 Ao5 in OH on film, it won't be easy. This is a 23.595 average, I think I shared a video with a 26.483 Ao5, but that was 11 months ago.








Spoiler



13130 19-jun-2018 13:58:25 00:21.407 U' L2 U' R2 F2 D2 L2 U' L2 U B2 L F' D' R' F L' D U2 R F2 U'
13129 19-jun-2018 13:57:46 00:23.334 R2 L2 D R2 F2 D' B2 U2 F2 R2 U L' D2 F' R B L F' U F R' U2
13128 19-jun-2018 13:57:00 00:28.925 U F2 R2 D L2 D B2 D' L2 U2 B' R U B' L' B' R2 B F2 L U2
13127 19-jun-2018 13:56:12 00:26.046 U B2 U L2 D' U' B2 R2 L2 D' B2 L U2 R D2 U F' R L' D L' U'
13126 19-jun-2018 13:55:33 00:19.967 B2 F2 R2 F2 D' B2 D2 F2 U2 R2 U' R' U2 R U' F R' U L' D R2 U'


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## Logiqx (Jun 19, 2018)

@muchacho - Nice video. Our styles are so different!

- Right-handed Roux with table abuse and custom colour scheme
- Left-handed CFOP without table abuse and standard colour scheme

I'll set the same goal... sub-20 Ao5 on film this year.


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## SpartanSailor (Jun 19, 2018)

Today’s 5 attempts at 3BLD were pretty good. (See below). csTimer didn’t add the splits into the export/copy but they were all around 3 mins +/- 15 seconds for memo. Lots of room for improvement. At this point, I’m still getting comfortable with M2 edges, but that seems to be coming along. Overall, I’d say I’m pleased with these times and don’t feel like I was pushing too much. 3/5 is better than yesterday (4/10) and that #3 DNF would have been a success if I didn’t fumble the cube in my second to last corner. It was off by a couple weird turns, which I could tell was the fumbling about.

1. 4:29.62 B2 L2 F' R B' D2 R2 U B L' D' B2 D R2 L2 D F2 U2 F2 Rw' Uw
2. 5:33.27 D2 U L2 R2 B2 D' R2 U L2 U2 L U' B R2 F' R F' U2 R2 F' Rw
3. DNF(4:17.93)[Got excited and had another cube twist while in hand moment. ] R F2 L F2 R' U2 L' F2 R D2 F2 B' D U B' D' F' R2 U L' U2 Uw'
4. 4:19.09 L2 D' F2 D' U2 L2 B2 D' L2 F2 D' F' R2 U' L R2 B L' R' B L2 Rw
5. DNF(4:59.42) B' L2 U2 F D2 B' L2 D2 L2 U2 F2 R B' F D' B' U L R U F' Uw'

Using csTimer, when you look at my last 3BLD from last night being a success, getting the first two success today gave me my first Mean of 3 with 3 success in a row. I don’t think I’ve ever done that before. If so, I certainly didn’t notice it that way. 

If I can do 5 attempts a day, I think I should have a good shot at sub-5 min success next weekend, June 30, at my next comp. Heck, if I get a good scramble or have a first attempt success, I could maybe even get a sub-4, but I don’t want to get ahead of myself... For now, I’ll feel good with 60% success today. The comp only give 10 total minutes, so if I do take 4-5 minutes on the first (and get a success), there’s no reason to play it safe for the second attempt. May as well, reduce my review and just let it rip!

Edit to add:
I did do that scramble from Jae earlier.... because I had seen it briefly and could remember that 3 bottom cross pieces were already in place, I didn’t time it for an “official attempt” today. Good thing too, because despite it’s apparent simplicity I found a way to completely get it wrong.


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## openseas (Jun 20, 2018)

@SpartanSailor / great progress!

Did you guys notice this?
Since when cstimer changed the option to include your WCA ID?
Wondering what will be the benefit to link to WCA ID? Interesting change!!!


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## SpartanSailor (Jun 20, 2018)

openseas said:


> @SpartanSailor / great progress!
> 
> Did you guys notice this?
> Since when cstimer changed the option to include your WCA ID?
> ...


I didn’t realise that was a new add. I’ve only started using csTimer because I wanted splits for BLD. But now, I’m a fan. 

I DID notice that when I tried to export some data, but didn’t know what that was about or what functionality that provided. 

Interesting...


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## One Wheel (Jun 20, 2018)

openseas said:


> @SpartanSailor / great progress!
> 
> Did you guys notice this?
> Since when cstimer changed the option to include your WCA ID?
> ...


It changed a couple of weeks ago. There is some discussion about it in the cstimer thread. I haven't been able to get it to work, but I was hoping I understood correctly that it just works as an identifier, so you can import/export between multiple devices. I'd like to be able to figure out how to track my feet times with the rest of my times.


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## cubeshepherd (Jun 20, 2018)

openseas said:


> @SpartanSailor / great progress!
> 
> Did you guys notice this?
> Since when cstimer changed the option to include your WCA ID?
> ...


Since you were wondering when the Cstimer change came to be, here is the Cstimer thread that has the info on it: https://www.speedsolving.com/forum/threads/cstimer-released.36236/page-30.
The post with the info is #598 on page 30.

Edit: Looks like @One Wheel answered is first, so you can ignore mine, but by the time you read this you will most likely have already read what I have above.


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## openseas (Jun 20, 2018)

@One Wheel & @cubeshepherd / Thanks. Make sense - being able to use same time/setup/records from multiple devices.


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## h2f (Jun 20, 2018)

Nice @SpartanSailor. You can also make a day brake and see what happens.


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## newtonbase (Jun 20, 2018)

MBLD 8/9 in 54:48 (39:54). Equal to PB on points. Most cubes solved. One flipped edge missed that I saw on first memo but not in review. This felt very comfortable.
I think I'll only do one more full attempt before comp on the 30th. Probably on Monday so I'm fresh. 9 cube attempt is looking favourite (if they let me compete)


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## mark49152 (Jun 20, 2018)

newtonbase said:


> MBLD 8/9 in 54:48 (39:54). Equal to PB on points. Most cubes solved. One flipped edge missed that I saw on first memo but not in review. This felt very comfortable.
> I think I'll only do one more full attempt before comp on the 30th. Probably on Monday so I'm fresh. 9 cube attempt is looking favourite (if they let me compete)


Nice job. Any news on the waiting list?

Did another 18/20 today, again in 56 mins. Slower memo but I rushed exec. 20 feels like quite a comfortable number now.


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## newtonbase (Jun 20, 2018)

mark49152 said:


> Nice job. Any news on the waiting list


I haven't asked as I don't expect many people will pull out this far in advance. 



mark49152 said:


> Did another 18/20 today, again in 56 mins. Slower memo but I rushed exec. 20 feels like quite a comfortable number now.


Well done. Those 4 spare minutes will help counteract comp conditions


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## mark49152 (Jun 20, 2018)

newtonbase said:


> Those 4 spare minutes will help counteract comp conditions


Or... would be pretty funny if an oldie broke NR


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## newtonbase (Jun 20, 2018)

mark49152 said:


> Or... would be pretty funny if an oldie broke NR


I can't tell you how happy that would make me. I'm smiling just picturing the looks on the faces of the youngsters who've been trying to beat each other to the record.


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## SpartanSailor (Jun 20, 2018)

newtonbase said:


> I can't tell you how happy that would make me. I'm smiling just picturing the looks on the faces of the youngsters who've been trying to beat each other to the record.


That would be priceless!!


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## mark49152 (Jun 20, 2018)

newtonbase said:


> I can't tell you how happy that would make me. I'm smiling just picturing the looks on the faces of the youngsters who've been trying to beat each other to the record.


LOL. Well you never know. It doesn't seem impossible .


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## newtonbase (Jun 20, 2018)

mark49152 said:


> LOL. Well you never know. It doesn't seem impossible .


Almost worth submitting 26 cubes at the last minute just for the reaction.


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## Mike Hughey (Jun 20, 2018)

newtonbase said:


> Almost worth submitting 26 cubes at the last minute just for the reaction.


He only needs 23!

(I'm jealous - you guys have it so easy in the UK. I'd have to go for 42.)


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## mark49152 (Jun 20, 2018)

Mike Hughey said:


> He only needs 23!


I would shoot for 24 points rather than 23 with faster time. According to my mega spreadsheet, if I tried 24 at current pace with last cube as 3BLD and omitting my 3rd review, I'd come in at ~61 minutes. So I'm not that far off. However, at my current memo pace I'm still very dependent on that 3rd review for accuracy...


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## newtonbase (Jun 20, 2018)

Mike Hughey said:


> He only needs 23!
> 
> (I'm jealous - you guys have it so easy in the UK. I'd have to go for 42.)



A quick 23 would do it but 26 would likely be the biggest attempt so would give the kids the jitters. 



mark49152 said:


> I would shoot for 24 points rather than 23 with faster time. According to my mega spreadsheet, if I tried 24 at current pace with last cube as 3BLD and omitting my 3rd review, I'd come in at ~61 minutes. So I'm not that far off. However, at my current memo pace I'm still very dependent on that 3rd review for accuracy...



I'll let you wait until the UKs.


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## moralsh (Jun 20, 2018)

In Spain Multi is also getting off limits pretty fast. Berta has currently a 26/26 but she's due to improve that (probably at Euro's) 4BLD and 5BLD more the later than the former are still for grabs, Let's hope I can really practice after Euros 

Mark is a good name for Multi, (Rivers, Adams, Boyanowski) and if you just get names starting by Mar there are some other nice additions


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## SpartanSailor (Jun 21, 2018)

Y’all.... I’m so bummed. This would have been a PB by a SERIOUS measure.


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## Old Tom (Jun 21, 2018)

mark49152 said:


> I would shoot for 24 points rather than 23 with faster time. According to my mega spreadsheet, if I tried 24 at current pace with last cube as 3BLD and omitting my 3rd review, I'd come in at ~61 minutes. So I'm not that far off. However, at my current memo pace I'm still very dependent on that 3rd review for accuracy...


Mark, u r listed as a Super Moderator, so asking you: How do I start a new topic or a new comment in this "Older Cubers Discussion"? Can I only do it as a Reply? Blindsolving is not my thing, but I don't see a way to start a new post here. I am definitely and older cuber (80 next week), and have gotten a nice welcome from many of you. Thanks!


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## SpartanSailor (Jun 21, 2018)

Old Tom said:


> Mark, u r listed as a Super Moderator, so asking you: How do I start a new topic or a new comment in this "Older Cubers Discussion"? Can I only do it as a Reply? Blindsolving is not my thing, but I don't see a way to start a new post here. I am definitely and older cuber (80 next week), and have gotten a nice welcome from many of you. Thanks!


I’ve always just added a new “topic” in my reply. People read through the comments. 

This thread is BLD solving heavy, but not exclusive. That just seems to be the topic of people posting. If you post about 3x3, for example, the conversation will go that way....

That’s my experience.


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## mark49152 (Jun 21, 2018)

Old Tom said:


> Mark, u r listed as a Super Moderator, so asking you: How do I start a new topic or a new comment in this "Older Cubers Discussion"? Can I only do it as a Reply? Blindsolving is not my thing, but I don't see a way to start a new post here. I am definitely and older cuber (80 next week), and have gotten a nice welcome from many of you. Thanks!


Welcome! Just post a reply. The Older Cubers Discussion is a single thread, not a sub-forum, so it's linear and the topic of conversation jumps around.


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## Old Tom (Jun 21, 2018)

mark49152 said:


> Welcome! Just post a reply. The Older Cubers Discussion is a single thread, not a sub-forum, so it's linear and the topic of conversation jumps around.


Got it, thx!


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## SpartanSailor (Jun 21, 2018)

2/5 again tonite with my 3BLD practice... but that 2:38 with just the missed edge was super encouraging. 

THAT SAID...I really need to get a plan together and start slowing figuring out how to improve my 3x3 times. By force of will, I was able to make some modest gains at the beginning of the year, but that only highlights how much room for improvement I really have. I feel like I’ve been working on lookahead for a decent few months and still not much gain there. I guess, I need to buckle down and learn some more efficient algs for the f2l cases I recognise more often. I’ll have to take note of the case, but there are a few that feel like 100 moves... I just have to believe I could save an entire second simply by optimising that one case alone! (Don’t bother asking the case, I’m not really certain of the corner edge relative configuration—but it’s always when they’re touching, rather than split up).


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## CLL Smooth (Jun 21, 2018)

A teller at my bank has had a scrambled 7x7 sitting on her desk for months now. I went in on Monday and she was gone but the cube was there. I couldn’t help myself. I hope she’s not mad...


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## SpartanSailor (Jun 21, 2018)

CLL Smooth said:


> A teller at my bank has had a scrambled 7x7 sitting on her desk for months now. I went in on Monday and she was gone but the cube was there. I couldn’t help myself. I hope she’s not mad...


I’ve done that with a person’s 3x3. She had heard that I “can solve” a Rubik’s cube so she was trying to figure it out and when I walked in and saw her mixed up cube, I just started solving it while we chatted. 

She was between annoyed and impressed. Lol. Annoyed that I could do it while talking casually after she spent several days just to get one face complete—not that it matters, but she had the cross and corners wrong anyway.


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## pglewis (Jun 21, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> Y’all.... I’m so bummed. This would have been a PB by a SERIOUS measure.



I need to get on the ball! I've only been doing a couple untimed solves per day as pure maintenance. Tracing is getting more reliable and my confidence in success is at an all time high... but I think I'm still probably in the 4-6 min range overall. I keep saying to myself I'll do a pushed memo session soon.


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## Old Tom (Jun 21, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> I’ve done that with a person’s 3x3. She had heard that I “can solve” a Rubik’s cube so she was trying to figure it out and when I walked in and saw her mixed up cube, I just started solving it while we chatted.
> 
> She was between annoyed and impressed. Lol. Annoyed that I could do it while talking casually after she spent several days just to get one face complete—not that it matters, but she had the cross and corners wrong anyway.


They have a 3x3 on a bar that I frequent. I solve it by my old LBL while watching the sports, not quickly. Some are impressed but most are just watching the sports also. It's always scrambled again when I go back, so they do try! F2L next time, not that anyone will notice.


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## Old Tom (Jun 21, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> 2/5 again tonite with my 3BLD practice... but that 2:38 with just the missed edge was super encouraging.
> 
> THAT SAID...I really need to get a plan together and start slowing figuring out how to improve my 3x3 times. By force of will, I was able to make some modest gains at the beginning of the year, but that only highlights how much room for improvement I really have. I feel like I’ve been working on lookahead for a decent few months and still not much gain there. I guess, I need to buckle down and learn some more efficient algs for the f2l cases I recognise more often. I’ll have to take note of the case, but there are a few that feel like 100 moves... I just have to believe I could save an entire second simply by optimising that one case alone! (Don’t bother asking the case, I’m not really certain of the corner edge relative configuration—but it’s always when they’re touching, rather than split up).



How did you enter this post as a "New"? It's what I was just asking.


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## cubeshepherd (Jun 21, 2018)

CLL Smooth said:


> A teller at my bank has had a scrambled 7x7 sitting on her desk for months now. I went in on Monday and she was gone but the cube was there. I couldn’t help myself. I hope she’s not mad...


That is pretty funny and it reminds me of something that I did 2 years back when I was in Germany, and what happened was, I was at a Toy store, and on a rack there was a 2x2, 3x3 and 5x5 Rubik's brand cubes but they were all scrambled, so being a good cuber, I could not just leave them scrambled on the rack so I decided to solve them...Well, I do not think that I was supposed to do that because after I solved them and put them back down, I got a glare from the employee that was there Oops 
Then after a few minutes later I decided walk back by the cubes and the employee was talking to another employee about how I solved them (not being very quite about it mind you) and then the other employee put out a sign on the rack saying not to touch the cubes and scrambled them again.

At least I now know that, that toy store does not like cubers...or at least cubers solving there cubes that are out. Not sure why they did not like it, but at least the cubes got solved once in there lifetime.

Sorry about the length of the story, but after seeing yours I remembered mine and thought it would be fun to share.


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## pglewis (Jun 21, 2018)

Old Tom said:


> How did you enter this post as a "New"? It's what I was just asking.



Near the bottom right of any page is a blue "Post Reply" button that will create a new, fresh reply from whatever you've typed into the box at the bottom. At least on the desktop browser, may be different for small screen devices or Tapatalk.


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## Old Tom (Jun 21, 2018)

pglewis said:


> Near the bottom right of any page is a blue "Post Reply" button that will create a new, fresh reply from whatever you've typed into the box at the bottom. At least on the desktop browser, may be different for small screen devices or Tapatalk.


Ok, trying that now. See the "Post Reply" button, have used it before, but don't think it will create a stand-alone post with a red "New" at top right. Here goes...


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## Old Tom (Jun 21, 2018)

Oh, it did, a red "New". But the post I am replying to still shows in grey. Perhaps I have to manually delete that part? Doing that now.

(Sorry for all this newbie stuff, but I plan to hang around.)


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## Old Tom (Jun 21, 2018)

Just found the even easier way. Done.


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## SpartanSailor (Jun 21, 2018)

@pglewis I dont feel like I’m pushing my memo as hard as I was leading into my last comp. the switch to M2 edges has just dropped my time seemingly immediately. 

I’m gettin more confident with my edges and memo. Once I get relative consistency at 70% or so, I’ll begin pushing my memo again. I want my execution to be very solid and not thinking about the setup moves before I go for more speed. 

That 2:38 was an easy memo (and a DNF) and just went super well. Sort of like my 15.71 random 3x3 solve! Lucky anomaly!! I’ll be thrilled with a sub-5 success at the Maryland 2018 event on the 30th.


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## SpartanSailor (Jun 21, 2018)

Old Tom said:


> Just found the even easier way. Done.


You figure it out? If you hit “reply” to an actual post or comment, it added the grey section as a quote. Sort of helpful if you are replying to a particular comment and it was a few comments back. 

At the bottom there is a large text input area that will post a new “fresh” comment if you just type directly into that and hit “post reply”. 

Looks like you figured it out, but I can’t tell if you had to delete out the quoted comments (the grey section).


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## mark49152 (Jun 21, 2018)

Old Tom said:


> How did you enter this post as a "New"? It's what I was just asking.


The red "new" appears on posts that are being displayed to you for the first time. Each post you make will be flagged "new" to everybody else the first time they see it. You don't have to do anything special to make that happen.


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## newtonbase (Jun 21, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> Y’all.... I’m so bummed. This would have been a PB by a SERIOUS measure.


Well done. With the practice you are doing you'll be getting successes like that pretty soon.


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## 40yearstosolve (Jun 21, 2018)

I now describe myself as a two and a half minute solver!! Thanks everyone for the encouragement and advice. Practise, dropping the daisy and this forums positivity I put down to dropping my time from 5 minutes. Thank you

Also, I managed to get my 9 year old into it - he can now solve in 5 minutes with help remembering only the last two algos, the rest he does himself. It won’t be long before he does his full first solve on his own. He can beat me to solve he white square already!

As someone born in the 70s and grew up with the Rubik’s Cube -obviously never solving it- I feel tremendous pride for my son enjoying solving and progressing so well. Anyone else done this?


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## Old Tom (Jun 21, 2018)

40yearstosolve said:


> I now describe myself as a two and a half minute solver!! Thanks everyone for the encouragement and advice. Practise, dropping the daisy and this forums positivity I put down to dropping my time from 5 minutes. Thank you
> 
> Also, I managed to get my 9 year old into it - he can now solve in 5 minutes with help remembering only the last two algos, the rest he does himself. It won’t be long before he does his full first solve on his own. He can beat me to solve he white square already!
> 
> As someone born in the 70s and grew up with the Rubik’s Cube -obviously never solving it- I feel tremendous pride for my son enjoying solving and progressing so well. Anyone else done this?


Hey, great! Keep on keeping on. Work on F2L, intuitive. More fun if you know what you are doing!


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## Mike Hughey (Jun 21, 2018)

40yearstosolve said:


> I now describe myself as a two and a half minute solver!! Thanks everyone for the encouragement and advice. Practise, dropping the daisy and this forums positivity I put down to dropping my time from 5 minutes. Thank you


Awesome progress! Good to hear!



40yearstosolve said:


> Also, I managed to get my 9 year old into it - he can now solve in 5 minutes with help remembering only the last two algos, the rest he does himself. It won’t be long before he does his full first solve on his own. He can beat me to solve he white square already!
> 
> As someone born in the 70s and grew up with the Rubik’s Cube -obviously never solving it- I feel tremendous pride for my son enjoying solving and progressing so well. Anyone else done this?


Many people here already know I dragged my whole family into it about 10 years ago. My oldest two daughters were 8 and 7 when they first competed in an official Rubik's Cube competition with me. They've competed in 39 official competitions so far, and have a nice "record" of having competed at all the same competitions together. And they were both official judges at the 2013 world championships, since they had developed such a reliable reputation as good judges. They're mostly grown up now and don't go to competitions much, but they still occasionally cube.

It's been great fun sharing this hobby as a family!


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## SpartanSailor (Jun 22, 2018)

3BLD parity question....

During practice today, which I don’t feel like went terribly well... I had an odd target set up. But forgot and rolled right from edges (M2) into corners (OP). I forgot the parity alg—D’ L2 D M2 D’ L2 D—but when I opened my eyes to a DNF, I remembered. It was pretty obvious... so I did the parity alg and it solved the cube. 

Using M2/OP, will it always work out that doing the parity at the very end will solve the cube, or was that just a lucky happenstance? Meaning, could that just be done at the end rather than between edges and corners?


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## openseas (Jun 22, 2018)

40yearstosolve said:


> I now describe myself as a two and a half minute solver!! Thanks everyone for the encouragement and advice. Practise, dropping the daisy and this forums positivity I put down to dropping my time from 5 minutes. Thank you
> 
> Also, I managed to get my 9 year old into it - he can now solve in 5 minutes with help remembering only the last two algos, the rest he does himself. It won’t be long before he does his full first solve on his own. He can beat me to solve he white square already!
> 
> As someone born in the 70s and grew up with the Rubik’s Cube -obviously never solving it- I feel tremendous pride for my son enjoying solving and progressing so well. Anyone else done this?



Great progress!!!

And yes, my son and my self, both of us are into cubing quite "seriously" - we travel all the time together to compete in many different places! This cubing is our "boy-thing"


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## openseas (Jun 22, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> 3BLD parity question....
> 
> During practice today, which I don’t feel like went terribly well... I had an odd target set up. But forgot and rolled right from edges (M2) into corners (OP). I forgot the parity alg—D L2 D’ M2 D L2 D’—but when I opened my eyes to a DNF, I remembered. It was pretty obvious... so I did the parity alg and it solved the cube.
> 
> Using M2/OP, will it always work out that doing the parity at the very end will solve the cube, or was that just a lucky happenstance? Meaning, could that just be done at the end rather than between edges and corners?



You can do parity alg either way for 3BLD - after finishing edges or after finishing the whole thing.

For big BLDs, it depends on whether your alg is center safe or not. Wing parity - I always do right after wing algs but corner parity, I do at the end of the solves.


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## SpartanSailor (Jun 22, 2018)

openseas said:


> You can do parity alg either way for 3BLD - after finishing edges or after finishing the whole thing.
> 
> For big BLDs, it depends on whether your alg is center safe or not. Wing parity - I always do right after wing algs but corner parity, I do at the end of the solves.


Thanks! Good to know...


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## openseas (Jun 22, 2018)

openseas said:


> For big BLDs, it depends on whether your alg is center safe or not. Wing parity - I always do right after wing algs but corner parity, I do at the end of the solves.



Just to be precise, let me try again:

Wing parity - always after finishing wings
4BLD: Corner parity - after the corner
5BLD: midge/corner parity (just like M2) - after finishing midges, then do corner-wing parity thing after the whole solve.


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## h2f (Jun 22, 2018)

openseas said:


> For big BLDs, it depends on whether your alg is center safe or not.



Just curious - is there center safe parity? I was sure there's not but I'm not sure.


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## xyzzy (Jun 22, 2018)

h2f said:


> Just curious - is there center safe parity? I was sure there's not but I'm not sure.


Depends on what type of parity.

Corner parity: no.
Midge parity: no.
Wing parity: yes for 444, no for 555 and up.
OLL parity: yes. (Even cubes only, not really relevant to bigbld.)
PLL parity: yes. (Even cubes only, not really relevant to bigbld.)


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## h2f (Jun 22, 2018)

xyzzy said:


> Depends on what type of parity.
> 
> Corner parity: no.
> Midge parity: no.
> ...



I meant big blindes. For wing parity in 4x4 can you give center safe alg. The one I use is not center safe.


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## Mike Hughey (Jun 22, 2018)

I just got a new PB mean of 3 in 5BLD: 12:47.25!
11:47.61[6:48.48], 12:09.77[6:15.61], 14:24.38[7:52.52]

And over the past 3 1/2 weeks, that makes 10 successful 5BLDs in a row!


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## xyzzy (Jun 22, 2018)

h2f said:


> I meant big blindes. For wing parity in 4x4 can you give center safe alg. The one I use is not center safe.


(I know the theory behind bigbld, but I've never done it (successfully (yet)) and I don't really know what other people do.)

Most parity algs end up with a 180-degree rotation of some face's centres, so if you figure out which face that is, you can do a 180-degree rotation of that centre after doing the parity alg. E.g.
2L' U2 2L' U2 F2 2L' F2 2R U2 2R' U2 2L2 (R U R' U)5

I think most people don't bother with a centre-safe alg, since that centre-fixing part at the end wastes a bunch of moves for no good reason.


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## Logiqx (Jun 22, 2018)

Another use for my GoPro... aside from official cube solves!

This was recorded before the wind disappeared and I started practicing OH.


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## newtonbase (Jun 22, 2018)

3BLD PB 1:11:30 
L' R' F' R2 D2 B D2 R F2 D2 R2 L F D' R L2 F2 D' B2 U' F2 L F R2 B2


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## mark49152 (Jun 22, 2018)

newtonbase said:


> 3BLD PB 1:11:30
> L' R' F' R2 D2 B D2 R F2 D2 R2 L F D' R L2 F2 D' B2 U' F2 L F R2 B2


Nice one. Splits? Are you using corner comms these days?


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## NewbieCuber (Jun 22, 2018)

Old Tom said:


> They have a 3x3 on a bar that I frequent. I solve it by my old LBL while watching the sports, not quickly. Some are impressed but most are just watching the sports also. It's always scrambled again when I go back, so they do try! F2L next time, not that anyone will notice.



There's a restaurant/bar near my house where I like to go. I'll usually sit at the bar and have a beer while I wait for my food. I'll often bring a cube and use the twisty timer app on my phone to time my solves. I've gotten more than a few interested viewers. At first it's "Have you solved it yet?" Then, when they realize that I'm timing myself they're a bit stunned that anyone would actually time themselves. But then we usually get to talking about competitions and such and it's a cool way to share the hobby with other people.


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## newtonbase (Jun 22, 2018)

mark49152 said:


> Nice one. Splits? Are you using corner comms these days?


I don't time splits on 3BLD. It's not often I time the solves either but I had some time in a coffee shop. 1st solve was a horrible 3 mins. This was the 2nd. 
I'm using some comms and did so in this solve. I haven't looked at the solve again but it wasn't particularly easy and that's 9s off my PB. I'll do some more timed 3BLD after Peterborough.


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## 40yearstosolve (Jun 22, 2018)

Mike Hughey said:


> Awesome progress! Good to hear!
> 
> 
> Many people here already know I dragged my whole family into it about 10 years ago. My oldest two daughters were 8 and 7 when they first competed in an official Rubik's Cube competition with me. They've competed in 39 official competitions so far, and have a nice "record" of having competed at all the same competitions together. And they were both official judges at the 2013 world championships, since they had developed such a reliable reputation as good judges. They're mostly grown up now and don't go to competitions much, but they still occasionally cube.
> ...



Wow Mike that is amazing! Unbelievable. I doubt I will get to that level but am tempted to go to a competition some day, just to spectate. But that’s some achievement to get your kids a) interested and b) to that level, I know how hard it can be to motivate them at times


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## 40yearstosolve (Jun 22, 2018)

openseas said:


> Great progress!!!
> 
> And yes, my son and my self, both of us are into cubing quite "seriously" - we travel all the time together to compete in many different places! This cubing is our "boy-thing"



Superb. You’ll have to give me a shout next time there’s a comp on we’ll come and watch. Unsure if there are any in Manchester, we are in Cheshire.


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## Old Tom (Jun 22, 2018)

40yearstosolve said:


> Superb. You’ll have to give me a shout next time there’s a comp on we’ll come and watch. Unsure if there are any in Manchester, we are in Cheshire.


Well, I'm in USA (Virginia), but question for you anyway: Are there many slow cubers at the competitions, or are they mostly under-20 second hotshots? Any really slow ones? And what about older cubers? You are over 40, but I am about to be over 80. I'm curious anyway!

Meanwhile, congrats to you and your boy.


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## Old Tom (Jun 22, 2018)

Old Tom said:


> Well, I'm in USA (Virginia), but question for you anyway: Are there many slow cubers at the competitions, or are they mostly under-20 second hotshots? Any really slow ones? And what about older cubers? You are over 40, but I am about to be over 80. I'm curious anyway!
> 
> Meanwhile, congrats to you and your boy.


Oops, that was meant for 40yearsto solve


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## Mike Hughey (Jun 22, 2018)

Old Tom said:


> Well, I'm in USA (Virginia), but question for you anyway: Are there many slow cubers at the competitions, or are they mostly under-20 second hotshots? Any really slow ones? And what about older cubers? You are over 40, but I am about to be over 80. I'm curious anyway!
> 
> Meanwhile, congrats to you and your boy.


Generally there aren't that many older cubers. But we're still welcomed, even if we're not that common. In Europe the average age tends to be much older than in the US. Here in the US the age tends to skew pretty young; the average cuber's age is probably 14 or 15 at most of the competitions I've been to lately, and that's even with me pulling the average way up by my being there.

And someone like yourself, being 80, will likely be a fascination to a lot of people there. If you happen to go to a competition where there's press, the reporter is very likely to notice you and want your story.  I know I love it when I see a competitor older than me at a competition!

As for slower cubers, generally they are mostly under-20 second hotshots. I average around 20 seconds, so I almost never make the second round for 3x3x3 - I'm too slow.  But there are always plenty of stragglers with slower times, so you won't feel alone! Look at this link from the "Rally in the Valley" in Middletown VA earlier this year:
https://www.worldcubeassociation.org/competitions/RallyInTheValley2018/results/all#e333_1
You'll see there were 6 people there with over 1 minute averages, and one with over a 2 minute average.

I live in Indiana, but my parents live in Virginia, so I have on occasion made it to a Virginia competition when it was convenient to my schedule. Perhaps we'll meet at a competition someday!


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## Tabe (Jun 22, 2018)

Old Tom said:


> Well, I'm in USA (Virginia), but question for you anyway: Are there many slow cubers at the competitions, or are they mostly under-20 second hotshots? Any really slow ones? And what about older cubers? You are over 40, but I am about to be over 80. I'm curious anyway!
> 
> Meanwhile, congrats to you and your boy.


The vast majority of the competitors at the competitions I've been to have averaged under 20 seconds. However, there have always been people averaging 40, 50, 60, or more, seconds. Even had a comp where someone didn't finish in the 10-minute time limit.

I'm in the over-40 category and have never been the only one my age at a comp but there definitely are not very many of us.


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## mark49152 (Jun 22, 2018)

Tabe said:


> I'm in the over-40 category


I don't see you in the over 40 rankings- would you like to be added?

https://github.com/Logiqx/wca-ipy/blob/master/README.md


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## Old Tom (Jun 22, 2018)

mark49152 said:


> I don't see you in the over 40 rankings- would you like to be added?
> 
> https://github.com/Logiqx/wca-ipy/blob/master/README.md


Sure. To be exact, I turn 80 next Friday, June 28 (1938 YOB).


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## mark49152 (Jun 22, 2018)

Old Tom said:


> Sure. To be exact, I turn 80 next Friday, June 28 (1938 YOB).


That was aimed at @Tabe because he said he was over 40 and had been to competitions. The rankings are of WCA official results, but once you've been to a comp you're more than welcome to be added of course!


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## Tabe (Jun 22, 2018)

mark49152 said:


> I don't see you in the over 40 rankings- would you like to be added?
> 
> https://github.com/Logiqx/wca-ipy/blob/master/README.md


Nah, I'm good.


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## openseas (Jun 22, 2018)

newtonbase said:


> 3BLD PB 1:11:30
> L' R' F' R2 D2 B D2 R F2 D2 R2 L F D' R L2 F2 D' B2 U' F2 L F R2 B2



Wow, that’s nice!


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## 40yearstosolve (Jun 23, 2018)

Old Tom said:


> Well, I'm in USA (Virginia), but question for you anyway: Are there many slow cubers at the competitions, or are they mostly under-20 second hotshots? Any really slow ones? And what about older cubers? You are over 40, but I am about to be over 80. I'm curious anyway!
> 
> Meanwhile, congrats to you and your boy.



I have never visited a comp but from what I have seen on YouTube everyone goes. There was a xhaonthat was a 2 minute solver that went.

I’d say there should be a prize for the oldest, at 80 that’s an inspiration. But at 40 I already know that you being 80 is nothing to do with age - you will feel the same age as I do, hovering somewhere around 24


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## SpartanSailor (Jun 23, 2018)

newtonbase said:


> 3BLD PB 1:11:30
> L' R' F' R2 D2 B D2 R F2 D2 R2 L F D' R L2 F2 D' B2 U' F2 L F R2 B2


Fantastic! That’s great


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## SpartanSailor (Jun 23, 2018)

Old Tom said:


> Well, I'm in USA (Virginia), but question for you anyway: Are there many slow cubers at the competitions, or are they mostly under-20 second hotshots? Any really slow ones? And what about older cubers? You are over 40, but I am about to be over 80. I'm curious anyway!
> 
> Meanwhile, congrats to you and your boy.


I attend nearly all the comps in VA and MD. There some slow Cubers. They have a 10min limit when there’s a limit at all... and I have seen people take a lot of that. Most are faster than me, but there are slower ones. 

As to older... I’m in my 40s and usually I’m the oldest. There’s one other dad I see regularly, but I’m older than he is. 

You would be a hero if you showed up and competed at 80 years old! If there are any 80 year olds, they brought their grandchild and are watching them compete! You should ABSOLUTELY do it and not worry about if you’re the slowest or oldest. Everyone will welcome you with open arms.


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## Old Tom (Jun 23, 2018)

40yearstosolve said:


> I have never visited a comp but from what I have seen on YouTube everyone goes. There was a xhaonthat was a 2 minute solver that went.
> 
> I’d say there should be a prize for the oldest, at 80 that’s an inspiration. But at 40 I already know that you being 80 is nothing to do with age - you will feel the same age as I do, hovering somewhere around 24


Exactly! 80 is the new 24.


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## openseas (Jun 23, 2018)

40yearstosolve said:


> I have never visited a comp but from what I have seen on YouTube everyone goes. There was a xhaonthat was a 2 minute solver that went.
> 
> I’d say there should be a prize for the oldest, at 80 that’s an inspiration. But at 40 I already know that you being 80 is nothing to do with age - you will feel the same age as I do, hovering somewhere around 24



Actually, it depends on organizers whether there will be any awards based on age. Cubecomps whcih you do for data entry during a competition gives the age based results information to organizer and delegate. We (in Texas) often give youngest achiever awards in comps. I’ve also received the oldest competitor award once (I was not the organizer / didn’t award to myself  ).

If I find an older guy (than me) competing in my comp, I certainly will.


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## Old Tom (Jun 23, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> I attend nearly all the comps in VA and MD. There some slow Cubers. They have a 10min limit when there’s a limit at all... and I have seen people take a lot of that. Most are faster than me, but there are slower ones.
> 
> As to older... I’m in my 40s and usually I’m the oldest. There’s one other dad I see regularly, but I’m older than he is.
> 
> You would be a hero if you showed up and competed at 80 years old! If there are any 80 year olds, they brought their grandchild and are watching them compete! You should ABSOLUTELY do it and not worry about if you’re the slowest or oldest. Everyone will welcome you with open arms.


You've got me inspired. So what if I've had hand surgeries, have recovered from a stroke, and have a chronic rheumatologic condition in my hands and arms. My mind is stiil young. i will look for a comp.


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## Old Tom (Jun 23, 2018)

Plus, I did mention that I've been deaf since I was a kid. (Not looking for any awards. Just looking to have fun. My dog Poogie solves faster than I do.)


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## SpartanSailor (Jun 23, 2018)

Old Tom said:


> You've got me inspired. So what if I've had hand surgeries, have recovered from a stroke, and have a chronic rheumatologic condition in my hands and arms. My mind is stiil young. i will look for a comp.


You can only move forward... right? Things can affect our bodies, but it’s always our choice to keep going! I will keep an eye out for you


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## 40yearstosolve (Jun 23, 2018)

Old Tom said:


> You've got me inspired. So what if I've had hand surgeries, have recovered from a stroke, and have a chronic rheumatologic condition in my hands and arms. My mind is stiil young. i will look for a comp.



Superb Tom, do it! You’d probably make the news. Cancer brought me to speed solving and to do my first solve, so seems to me with surgeries, a stroke, your hands and being deaf you can show the kids just what is possible. I know my kids now, seeing me beat cancer, have a fantastic armament of coping strategies for when life throws them a curved ball. And certainly today Tom I will be telling them your story.

We’ll expect photos of you competing and collecting a prize or two.

Don’t know about you but to hear there’s a 10 minute limit makes me relax. Even if I do a slow 3 minute I’d just feel pleased to compete.

I think here we are looking at inspiration on inspiration. Think I will see if I can find a UK comp right now


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## newtonbase (Jun 23, 2018)

40yearstosolve said:


> Think I will see if I can find a UK comp right now


The WCA site will show you what has been announced so far in the UK Peterborough is full and registration isn't open yet for anything else. There's also the UK Championships in Stevenage on the last weekend of October. Weston Super Mare is organised by fellow oldies @Shaky Hands and @Selkie and is highly recommended.
Be warned that they fill up very quickly so it's best to have a WCA account set up in advance so you can book a place the minute registration opens.


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## 40yearstosolve (Jun 23, 2018)

newtonbase said:


> The WCA site will show you what has been announced so far in the UK Peterborough is full and registration isn't open yet for anything else. There's also the UK Championships in Stevenage on the last weekend of October. Weston Super Mare is organised by fellow oldies @Shaky Hands and @Selkie and is highly recommended.
> Be warned that they fill up very quickly so it's best to have a WCA account set up in advance so you can book a place the minute registration opens.



May go as spectators for the first one. Be great if there were some closer to home and I see there was one in Manchester in Feb so hopefully this is repeated annually.

But I am tempted to travel esp if there are forum members there - may have to get a t-shirt printed with my forum name on


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## Mike Hughey (Jun 23, 2018)

40yearstosolve said:


> May go as spectators for the first one.


I've seen many people say this, but then when they get there and realize how easy and fun it is to compete they often regret deciding not to compete the first time. I'd say you should go ahead and compete right away if you can!

But then again, since competitions in your area tend to fill up, if the first competition you can conveniently get to is all full so that you're not allowed to compete, it might not be a bad idea to go to that as a spectator just so you'll know what it's like.

Still, I would say you should compete if you possibly can. As long as you're under 10 minutes solving, you'll be glad you did!


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## 40yearstosolve (Jun 23, 2018)

I now use csTimer thanks to the suggestions here. Does anyone else find that the scrambles at the top of the timer screen often generate very simple scrambles? If I scramble the cube myself I find I produce a much harder solve. I take it I have understood correctly that the algo at the top of the screen is a scramble


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## bubbagrub (Jun 23, 2018)

Yes -- just to add another voice to the chorus: do come along and compete if you can. It's such fun, and you'll be surprised at how welcoming everyone is, regardless of how fast or slow you are. Although it's a competition most people genuinely view it as being about competing with yourself, and if you tell someone that you tend to average 2 minutes and you get a lucky 1:30, they'll congratulate you just as genuinely as if you average 15 seconds and get a lucky 10.

Someone asked if there are competitions in Manchester -- there have been a few over the past few years, and no doubt will again. I guess Stratford-upon-Avon is the closest that's currently scheduled:

https://www.worldcubeassociation.org/competitions

Finally, I'm another oldie with a full family of competitors, although not anywhere near on the scale of Mike. My son has competed in almost exactly the same competitions as me (I've just done a few FMC-only competitions that he's not been to) and he started competing when he was 8 years old and I was 40. My daughter learned to solve pyraminx last year and my wife learned to solve pyraminx and skewb, so they both competed in a competition fairly recently.


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## JanW (Jun 23, 2018)

40yearstosolve said:


> I now use csTimer thanks to the suggestions here. Does anyone else find that the scrambles at the top of the timer screen often generate very simple scrambles? If I scramble the cube myself I find I produce a much harder solve. I take it I have understood correctly that the algo at the top of the screen is a scramble


Yes, that's the scramble. There are many different settings. I recommend WCA, which should produce official random-state scrambles, just like the ones you'd get in comps. A random-state scramble means that it is generated by randomly assigning the location and orientation of each piece, then it produces the alg to reach that state and presents it to you as the scramble alg. This should make it truly random, with equal probability for each possible scramble to occur. This is not true if a scramble is generated as a random series of moves.


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## 40yearstosolve (Jun 23, 2018)

Mike Hughey said:


> I've seen many people say this, but then when they get there and realize how easy and fun it is to compete they often regret deciding not to compete the first time. I'd say you should go ahead and compete right away if you can!
> 
> But then again, since competitions in your area tend to fill up, if the first competition you can conveniently get to is all full so that you're not allowed to compete, it might not be a bad idea to go to that as a spectator just so you'll know what it's like.
> 
> Still, I would say you should compete if you possibly can. As long as you're under 10 minutes solving, you'll be glad you did!



I’ll take that advice thanks Mike. I have signed up for updates on the UK CA website so should get to enter my local event in February next year - am sure we’ll go and visit one as spectators before then for the ones already full.


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## 40yearstosolve (Jun 23, 2018)

I can retire 

Reached my goal of sub 2 minutes just now and I am very happy with that (it’s a single solve time, my mean average is a full minute more than that).

Got a bit lucky on the OLL (yellow, last solid side (top) before PLL if I have remembered correctly) where yellow appeared after just one algo after the first two layers were completed. I was talking to one of my son’s friends too as I was solving, and had a few non-optimal turns during the first two layers, so not feeling quite happy to celebrate).

Oh, and those scrambles on csTimer definitely help

Do you think I am justified in answering the question “how long does it take you to solve” with “about a couple of minutes” 

“Under a minute” is my next goal. I feel chopping off between 60 and 90 seconds will take intuitive F2L (as suggested already by a few of you - thanks) and some training on my finger tricks. And time.

One advantage of the cube training is I don’t spend all of my spare time on my phone now!!


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## 40yearstosolve (Jun 23, 2018)

In


JanW said:


> Yes, that's the scramble. There are many different settings. I recommend WCA, which should produce official random-state scrambles, just like the ones you'd get in comps. A random-state scramble means that it is generated by randomly assigning the location and orientation of each piece, then it produces the alg to reach that state and presents it to you as the scramble alg. This should make it truly random, with equal probability for each possible scramble to occur. This is not true if a scramble is generated as a random series of moves.



In that case I used competition conditions to get to under 2 minutes yay thanks Jan, time for a beer cheers


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## Old Tom (Jun 23, 2018)

40yearstosolve said:


> I can retire
> 
> Reached my goal of sub 2 minutes just now and I am very happy with that (it’s a single solve time, my mean average is a full minute more than that).
> 
> ...



Yes, intuitive F2L. You will get slower at first, but even then, you will enjoy the logic of it all. Then you get faster, because you chop 20-40 turns off your solve. (Not sure if those numbers are correct, but definitely lots fewer.)


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## pglewis (Jun 23, 2018)

Old Tom said:


> You've got me inspired. So what if I've had hand surgeries, have recovered from a stroke, and have a chronic rheumatologic condition in my hands and arms. My mind is stiil young. i will look for a comp.



Competitions nearly always have a high time limit of 10 mins for 3x3 in order to accommodate nearly anyone who can solve. Other events, especially bigger cubes, will have a more competitive time limit in order to host as many events as they can and still stay on schedule but they continue to welcome all levels for 3x3 without any filtering. You could end up seated next to a world record holder, an average speedsolver, or someone else at their very first comp.

Like most folks here, I encourage anyone who can solve in under 10 mins to go and compete. It's a fun environment, exciting as a spectator, and the first time competing is mostly about experiencing the competition environment (and if you're self-competitive, setting personal marks to beat the next time out).



40yearstosolve said:


> I now use csTimer thanks to the suggestions here. Does anyone else find that the scrambles at the top of the timer screen often generate very simple scrambles?



I've also had plenty of random state scrambles that I probably wouldn't have accepted and kept scrambling more, had I been hand-scrambling. The beauty of randomness is some scrambles will turn out favorable for you, we learn early in this hobby that luck is not a crime.



40yearstosolve said:


> Do you think I am justified in answering the question “how long does it take you to solve” with “about a couple of minutes”



Yeah, that's good enough . Most people who pick up one of the "modern methods" and practice a fair bit at this stage progress reasonably quickly to sub 2 mins. The average person is struck by the "impossible puzzle" mystique and the ability to solve it at all is amazing. A speedsolver is going to know you're just getting started and yet have a lot of respect for you successfully tackling the hardest part of getting that first solve.



40yearstosolve said:


> “Under a minute” is my next goal. I feel chopping off between 60 and 90 seconds will take intuitive F2L (as suggested already by a few of you - thanks) and some training on my finger tricks. And time.



Getting the hang of the very basics of F2L got me under 2mins. More practice and improving F2L got me to about 1:30. Yet more F2L practice, 2-look OLL and full PLL got me to around the 1 min mark. From ~1:00 to ~:30 was pretty much all improving F2L: more efficient ways to deal with some cases, learning the importance of edge orientation, cutting out rotations. And from here... most of my improvement will come from faster F2L case recognition and better lookahead. You may spot a trend here . People progress differently and at different rates but regardless of who your are: it's difficult to overstate the importance of F2L in improving your times with CFOP.


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## Old Tom (Jun 23, 2018)

pglewis said:


> Competitions nearly always have a high time limit of 10 mins for 3x3 in order to accommodate nearly anyone who can solve. Other events, especially bigger cubes, will have a more competitive time limit in order to host as many events as they can and still stay on schedule but they continue to welcome all levels for 3x3 without any filtering. You could end up seated next to a world record holder, an average speedsolver, or someone else at their very first comp.
> 
> Like most folks here, I encourage anyone who can solve in under 10 mins to go and compete. It's a fun environment, exciting as a spectator, and the first time competing is mostly about experiencing the competition environment (and if you're self-competitive, setting personal marks to beat the next time out).
> 
> ...



All those comments are helpful to me. I never time myself much, but am around two minutes now since I changed to F2L. Zero look-ahead at present, concentrating on the great logic of the F2L moves. "Logic" is a better word than "intuition" for where I am now; my head is working harder than my fingers. I notice something new almost every time. (Just noticed that the Sledgehammer alg for inserting a joined pair - R'FRF' - is identical to the keyhole insertion of a middle edge in my old LBL method!)

I will start working on look-ahead soon enough, but with the goal of being smooth rather than fast.


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## newtonbase (Jun 23, 2018)

Old Tom said:


> (Just noticed that the Sledgehammer alg for inserting a joined pair - R'FRF' - is identical to the keyhole insertion of a middle edge in my old LBL method!)


It's worth paying attention to what happens to the yellow edges when you use the different inserts for your last pair. You can often give yourself an easier case.


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## Old Tom (Jun 23, 2018)

newtonbase said:


> It's worth paying attention to what happens to the yellow edges when you use the different inserts for your last pair. You can often give yourself an easier case.


Thanks. That will be part of "looking ahead", not there yet.


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## SpartanSailor (Jun 24, 2018)

@Old Tom i just noticed this competition in Fredericksburg on july 21. 

https://www.worldcubeassociation.org/competitions/FredericksburgSummerOpen2018#general-info

I’m not too sure how far that is for you, but if your interested...


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## Old Tom (Jun 24, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> @Old Tom i just noticed this competition in Fredericksburg on july 21.
> 
> https://www.worldcubeassociation.org/competitions/FredericksburgSummerOpen2018#general-info
> 
> I’m not too sure how far that is for you, but if your interested...


Hmm. That's only two hours away. I just might go and make a fool of myself. Just to say that I did it.


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## SpartanSailor (Jun 24, 2018)

Old Tom said:


> Hmm. That's only two hours away. I just might go and make a fool of myself. Just to say that I did it.


You will enjoy it... and for what it’s worth, I still make a fool of myself. hahaha


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## Mike Hughey (Jun 24, 2018)

I wish I could go! I grew up less than 20 miles from Fredericksburg!


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## SpartanSailor (Jun 24, 2018)

Mike Hughey said:


> I wish I could go! I grew up less than 20 miles from Fredericksburg!


They are doing 222,333,444,555,666 and 777.


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## SpartanSailor (Jun 24, 2018)

5/10 with tonite 3BLD practice. Should have had a 6th, but it slipped in my hands as I was doing the final two corners.... That happens more frequently than I would like and is really annoying. 

My current csTimer session for 3BLD is 16/35...right at 45%. That seems about right. Now, it’s more about memo error and/or mistakes like accidental cube slices... I am feeling more and more confident with my setups and returns now. Still room for improvement. So far, I’m settling in around 4:30s or thereabout. With 3:01 average memo time and 1:39 average execution time (DNFs included). My goal for this upcoming event is sub-5. So, I’m not stretching myself at all to make that happen. But, if I can get a nice sub-5 for the first and get a success... I’ll cut back on review for the second attempt and go for a sub-4. It would be nice to have a U.S. Nationals qualifying time in 3BLD. By the end of the year, that is the goal.


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## Old Tom (Jun 25, 2018)

Well, I did it! I am registered for the Fredericksburg, Va Open, July 21, in the 3x3. Had a very encouraging email exchange with one of the organizers, Corey Sakowski, will have hand signals at 8 and 12 sec, because I am deaf. Guaranteed to be oldest (80), and probably slowest by a lot. But also guaranteed to post a PB, since this is my first comp.


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## SpartanSailor (Jun 25, 2018)

Old Tom said:


> Well, I did it! I am registered for the Fredericksburg, Va Open, July 21, in the 3x3. Had a very encouraging email exchange with one of the organizers, Corey Sakowski, will have hand signals at 8 and 12 sec, because I am deaf. Guaranteed to be oldest (80), and probably slowest by a lot. But also guaranteed to post a PB, since this is my first comp.



Well, I’ll be sure to register and let Corey know I know ASL. I always give 8 and 12s hand signals. There are a few Deaf/Hoh people that compete. I’m not sure how well any of them can hear, so I just hand signals as extra...

I’ll probably get to judge for ya!


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## Old Tom (Jun 25, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> Well, I’ll be sure to register and let Corey know I know ASL. I always give 8 and 12s hand signals. There are a few Deaf/Hoh people that compete. I’m not sure how well any of them can hear, so I just hand signals as extra...
> 
> I’ll probably get to judge for ya!


Hey, great! I don't do true ASL, rather, Signed English, but I am sure we will communicate just great. I speak for myself (can't shut me up). I traveled all over the world giving lectures in chemistry. (I'm a lousy cuber, though, as you will find out.)


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## SpartanSailor (Jun 25, 2018)

Old Tom said:


> Hey, great! I don't do true ASL, rather, Signed English, but I am sure we will communicate just great. I speak for myself (can't shut me up). I traveled all over the world giving lectures in chemistry. (I'm a lousy cuber, though, as you will find out.)


If you like solving cubes AND chemistry... then we will get along just fine. I’m not wonderfully fluent at ASL, but I can get by. Signed English is much easier for me anyway.

I just registered too. So, i look forward to meeting a fellow “oldie” and can’t wait to have someone older than me in the competition! I think you will enjoy it. Corey is a nice guy too. They all are and will be happy to have you competing.


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## Jason Green (Jun 25, 2018)

I had a family reunion in my hometown this weekend, and got to talk a little bit about cubing. My sister videoed it for me.


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## SpartanSailor (Jun 25, 2018)

Jason Green said:


> I had a family reunion in my hometown this weekend, and got to talk a little bit about cubing. My sister videoed it for me.


I know that song... 19-80-something! Lol


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## Old Tom (Jun 25, 2018)

Jason Green said:


> I had a family reunion in my hometown this weekend, and got to talk a little bit about cubing. My sister videoed it for me.



Great video. Best part for me is that it is captioned for the deaf.


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## Old Tom (Jun 25, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> If you like solving cubes AND chemistry... then we will get along just fine. I’m not wonderfully fluent at ASL, but I can get by. Signed English is much easier for me anyway.
> 
> I just registered too. So, i look forward to meeting a fellow “oldie” and can’t wait to have someone older than me in the competition! I think you will enjoy it. Corey is a nice guy too. They all are and will be happy to have you competing.


Gonna be fun. Will be bumped out in first round, but then hang around.


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## openseas (Jun 25, 2018)

Inspirational video series 

1) A blind cuber doing 3BLD :
- it is a WCA rule to have a paper for 3BLD attempt no matter what.
- WCA rule allows to have two cubes for a blind cuber. One textured for memo, one normal for execution, as you can see from the video





__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=212344802550386





2) 3BLD - oldest 3BLD official success


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## openseas (Jun 25, 2018)

Old Tom said:


> Well, I did it! I am registered for the Fredericksburg, Va Open, July 21, in the 3x3. Had a very encouraging email exchange with one of the organizers, Corey Sakowski, will have hand signals at 8 and 12 sec, because I am deaf. Guaranteed to be oldest (80), and probably slowest by a lot. But also guaranteed to post a PB, since this is my first comp.



Congrats!!!! A big step!!!

In Texas, one of famous/local cuber is a deaf, too. When we judge him, we use either hand signals or a smart phone/pad timer so that he can track the time.

I believe Corey will put every effort to make your competition as smooth as possible.


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## SpartanSailor (Jun 25, 2018)

Old Tom said:


> Gonna be fun. Will be bumped out in first round, but then hang around.


I have only made the second round a couple times. I usually just help judge and/or hang out and watch.


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## SpartanSailor (Jun 25, 2018)

Woke up pretty early today. Took advantage of that time to drill M2 edges... set the scramble to edges only. Didn’t work memo too much, although a few I did try to memo the entire edge memo. However, most of it was just in pairs to practice execution of the edges and smooth out the set-up/return to reduce pauses. Did mostly 2 pairs at a time (i.e. 4 targets) so I could try to keep it smooth for 4 targets at a time. Then, look for the next 4, etc...

I feel like that actually helps, but we shall see...


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## Old Tom (Jun 25, 2018)

I used to play in chess tourneys. Not a pblm being deaf, an advantage in fact. But once saw a fellow who was both deaf and blind. There's a "touch-move" rule in chess - if you touch a piece you must move it or capture it - but this was waived for him, a special set with pegged pieces that he was allowed to touch. He was a pretty good player.


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## newtonbase (Jun 25, 2018)

7/9 MBLD in last practice before the weekend. Took 52:31 with very solid memo. Both errors were execution. Might be tempted to try 10 if I get to compete.


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## 40yearstosolve (Jun 25, 2018)

Is it an age thing or does everyone find that when they try/buy a new cube it’s like you are solving a different puzzle when you first move to it from your favourite cube?

I have experienced this between the three different models of cube I have now, but I felt it more so with the new magnetic cube I just bought, a MoYu WeiLong GTS 2M.

Going for my first solve is like driving under the influence! It is familiar but laboured and unfamiliar at the same time.

—btw my first taste of a magnetic cube is very positive, the WeiLong GTS 2M is lovely to use. I love my AeLong for its smoothness. The GTS 2M shares the same ‘scratchy’ movement that it’s twin sister the non-magnetic GTS2 has. The magnetic version must be a lot better than the non-magnetic because I previously returned it favouring the AeLong! This one is a keeper! It’s the non-sticker version so perhaps that contributes towards a better experience?

I’d have to say that between a non-magnetic AeLong and the magnetic non-sticker WeiLong, the latter wins!

Anyone else find this weirdness when using a new cube. Also be interested if you use MoYu?


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## pglewis (Jun 25, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> Woke up pretty early today. Took advantage of that time to drill M2 edges... set the scramble to edges only. Didn’t work memo too much, although a few I did try to memo the entire edge memo. However, most of it was just in pairs to practice execution of the edges and smooth out the set-up/return to reduce pauses. Did mostly 2 pairs at a time (i.e. 4 targets) so I could try to keep it smooth for 4 targets at a time. Then, look for the next 4, etc...
> 
> I feel like that actually helps, but we shall see...



Now is probably a good time to decide if you want to use an x' rotation for the "inside targets", to avoid B face turns in favor of U face turns. N/H have an ergonomic 3 move setup using wide U turns but I have switched to using an x' rotation for M/O/P, E/F/G. This took me a little while to get used to and introduced a brand new way to make mistakes but it's fairly natural for me at this point and I definitely prefer it. Sighted, edge-only scrambles is a perfect way to work on it.


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## mark49152 (Jun 25, 2018)

pglewis said:


> N/H have an ergonomic 3 move setup using wide U turns but I have switched to using an x' rotation for M/O/P, E/F/G.


Don't forget you can set up N and H to A with a B/B' move. Also of you have two of these targets adjacent you can save rotating by setting up to the I sticker instead. Like [U L U: M'] [U' R U: M]


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## pglewis (Jun 25, 2018)

40yearstosolve said:


> Is it an age thing or does everyone find that when they try/buy a new cube it’s like you are solving a different puzzle when you first move to it from your favourite cube?
> 
> I have experienced this between the three different models of cube I have now, but I felt it more so with the new magnetic cube I just bought, a MoYu WeiLong GTS 2M.
> 
> ...



My history of "main" 3x3s: Dayan Guhong (was already aged when I purchased it but was my first speedcube), AoLong V2, Thunderclap V1, Valk 3, GTS2M. Around the time I adopted the Valk I switched to stickerless exclusively because, for some weird reason, I feel like I recognize last layer cases better/faster without the sticker gap. The GTS2M was my first magnetic cube and it's still my main today (the new Yuxin HuangLong M is nice and might be my favorite for blindfold solves now but it don't think it will usurp the GTS2M for me on regular 3x3). I really like light and fast puzzles for normal 3x3 but those attributes aren't very stable without the magnets. 

Any time I return to my AoLong these days it feels kinda like it's made of stone compared to the modern light puzzle trend. Different feeling puzzles definitely require an adjustment for me but as long as it's not actively fighting me I can usually adjust just fine within a few days of heavy use.


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## pglewis (Jun 25, 2018)

mark49152 said:


> Don't forget you can set up N and H to A with a B/B' move. Also of you have two of these targets adjacent you can save rotating by setting up to the I sticker instead. Like [U L U: M'] [U' R U: M]



I'll have to absorb the 2nd part of that... obviously I can't just use B/B' directly for N/H as it'll disturb the M slice but I think you've given me some 2-target magic that I'll understand once I play with the comms you provided.


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## SpartanSailor (Jun 25, 2018)

pglewis said:


> Now is probably a good time to decide if you want to use an x' rotation for the "inside targets", to avoid B face turns in favor of U face turns. N/H have an ergonomic 3 move setup using wide U turns but I have switched to using an x' rotation for M/O/P, E/F/G. This took me a little while to get used to and introduced a brand new way to make mistakes but it's fairly natural for me at this point and I definitely prefer it. Sighted, edge-only scrambles is a perfect way to work on it.


I am experimenting with the x’ rotation stuff to see what feels good. I don’t have issues with B moves, but I’m lookin for smoother execution. Slow = smooth, smooth = fast... type thing. 

I’m not quite ready to add another complexity, but I like the way I’ve seen pairing the M-slice pieces with an outside target (two for one) and reduce the need for the more cumbersome I/S targets (FU/BD). I’ll add that in soon enuff. I think after that little bit, I’ll settle down and dial in my method. Get real solid and then focus on reducing memo time. I’ll save more advanced stuff for when I feel very good about my memo/tracing and everything else. 

But we clearly use the same “standard” letter scheme as well... just for curiosity, what is the orientation you solve with? I like white top with green facing me. I realise that’s the “typical” orientation, but I like the green and white from my old Michigan State days.


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## SpartanSailor (Jun 25, 2018)

pglewis said:


> I'll have to absorb the 2nd part of that... obviously I can't just use B/B' directly for N/H as it'll disturb the M slice but I think you've given me some 2-target magic that I'll understand once I play with the comms you provided.


I think he’s using B/B’ as “notational” rather than Back face turns. Meaning, B is the “set up” and B’ is the “reverse set up”. 

This is also what I referred to as 2-for-1 target stuff (my next level). The last bit of that post is notation I’ve noticed for using comes. 

Like, do the setup for H, then M’ slice... then Undo the set up for H, then M

Not to be taken as B face turn, then B’ face turn... 

You can combine the M slice targets with other non-m slice targets with a slick setup and reverse that uses M and M’ moves and get both the M-slice target and the other simultaneously.


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## pglewis (Jun 25, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> I am experimenting with the x’ rotation stuff to see what feels good. I don’t have issues with B moves, but I’m lookin for smoother execution. Slow = smooth, smooth = fast... type thing.



I'm reasonably comfy with B moves too, I'll even occasionally use 'em in a CFOP solve to do a back slot slegehammer. But for some reason I dislike them enough that I used to avoid inside targets when doing cycle breaks, unless that's all that was left. I'm probably slower with the rotation tbh, but for some weird reason it hurts my brain less. 



SpartanSailor said:


> We cleary the same “standard” letter scheme as well... just for curiosity, what is the orientation you solve with? I like white top with green facing me. I realise that’s the “typical” orientation, but I like the green and white from my old Michigan State days.



Yeah, I went with Speffz because I have no compelling reason to be non standard. For orientation, I'm a z2 away from yours, yellow top, green front. I'm primarily white cross, so yellow top is by far the most intuitive for me and green front because it's only a z2 away from WCA scramble orientation.


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## SpartanSailor (Jun 25, 2018)

pglewis said:


> I'm reasonably comfy with B moves too, I'll even occasionally use 'em in a CFOP solve to do a back slot slegehammer. But for some reason I dislike them enough that I used to avoid inside targets when doing cycle breaks, unless that's all that was left. I'm probably slower with the rotation tbh, but for some weird reason it hurts my brain less.
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, I went with Speffz because I have no compelling reason to be non standard. For orientation, I'm a z2 away from yours, yellow top, green front. I'm primarily white cross, so yellow top is by far the most intuitive for me and green front because it's only a z2 away from WCA scramble orientation.


Funny... whatever hurts your brain less is how to go! 

I am a white cross solver too. I used to be comparable with yellow cross, but have since moved even away from that. However, blind since I learned my locations with white on top, it is transparent to me during the solve since I can’t see it.


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## pglewis (Jun 25, 2018)

pglewis said:


> But for some reason I dislike them enough that I used to avoid inside targets when doing cycle breaks, unless that's all that was left.



I'd even forgotten what the actual rub was here... obviously I can always pick the outside sticker during a cycle break but I didn't like the fact that I had a strong preference for X over G, for example, when G may have made for a much better image for me.


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## newtonbase (Jun 25, 2018)

pglewis said:


> obviously I can't just use B/B' directly for N/H as it'll disturb the M slice


It does disturb the M slice but if you do your next target before undoing the set up then you'll be fine.


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## newtonbase (Jun 25, 2018)

This talk is making me realise I'm using some bad setups. A favourite is setting NQ up to AR with a B move but I should be using a U to set up to NM which is better in every way.


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## 40yearstosolve (Jun 25, 2018)

pglewis said:


> My history of "main" 3x3s: Dayan Guhong (was already aged when I purchased it but was my first speedcube), AoLong V2, Thunderclap V1, Valk 3, GTS2M. Around the time I adopted the Valk I switched to stickerless exclusively because, for some weird reason, I feel like I recognize last layer cases better/faster without the sticker gap. The GTS2M was my first magnetic cube and it's still my main today (the new Yuxin HuangLong M is nice and might be my favorite for blindfold solves now but it don't think it will usurp the GTS2M for me on regular 3x3). I really like light and fast puzzles for normal 3x3 but those attributes aren't very stable without the magnets.
> 
> Any time I return to my AoLong these days it feels kinda like it's made of stone compared to the modern light puzzle trend. Different feeling puzzles definitely require an adjustment for me but as long as it's not actively fighting me I can usually adjust just fine within a few days of heavy use.



An odd side effect of the GTS2M is that the colours are harder for me to see - I am colour blind across green/yellow/orange so differentiating between them can be very difficult in most light situations. The AeLong less so but in certain lights I still struggle.

I do remember reading about a custom cube website that allows you to choose he stickers to help colour blind people.

Does anyone know which website it is?

Anyone else afflicted with the same ‘talent’??

PS: pglewis, does your GTS2M make a ‘spring moving’ noise when you turn it? My AeLong is silent, but this GTS2M makes a bit of a metallic noise. Wondering whether to return/replace.


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## JanW (Jun 25, 2018)

40yearstosolve said:


> PS: pglewis, does your GTS2M make a ‘spring moving’ noise when you turn it? My AeLong is silent, but this GTS2M makes a bit of a metallic noise. Wondering whether to return/replace.


I have two GTS2M and never had any spring noises. But it is a common issue that can happen with any cube. It is usually easy to fix by lubing the core. There are plenty of videos on youtube that show how to do that.


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## newtonbase (Jun 25, 2018)

40yearstosolve said:


> Does anyone know which website it is?


There's oliverstickers.com and the Cubicle is meant to be good too.


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## 40yearstosolve (Jun 25, 2018)

JanW said:


> I have two GTS2M and never had any spring noises. But it is a common issue that can happen with any cube. It is usually easy to fix by lubing the core. There are plenty of videos on youtube that show how to do that.



Great I will look although I’ve been scared stiff to take it apart haha.


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## 40yearstosolve (Jun 25, 2018)

newtonbase said:


> There's oliverstickers.com and the Cubicle is meant to be good too.



Cheers newtonbase I’ll have a look at those thank you.


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## mark49152 (Jun 25, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> I think he’s using B/B’ as “notational” rather than Back face turns. Meaning, B is the “set up” and B’ is the “reverse set up”.


No I did mean back face moves. For example, take HJ speffz.

Plain M2: (L' B L B' M2 B L' B' L) (U R U' M2 U R' U')
Advanced M2: (B' M2 (U R U' M2 U R' U') B)


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## pglewis (Jun 25, 2018)

40yearstosolve said:


> Great I will look although I’ve been scared stiff to take it apart haha.



For spring noise I determine which face(s), take the center cap off, remove the screw completely without disassembling if possible (magnetic cubes are good here), track down the spring since it probably leaped when I wasn't prepared, and put one drop of silicone lube on spring's contact points (the screw-head and the washer in the center). 

I take a good look at roughly how far the screw is in beforehand so I can return it to roughly the same tension afterwards.


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## SpartanSailor (Jun 25, 2018)

mark49152 said:


> No I did mean back face moves. For example, take HJ speffz.
> 
> Plain M2: (L' B L B' M2 B L' B' L) (U R U' M2 U R' U')
> Advanced M2: (B' M2 (U R U' M2 U R' U') B)



Oh! Sorry. I just tried that... totally works! (Of course). But do you have to learn that for every letter pair?

The process I was describing is I believe essentially the same, but I don’t know it well. It does the same thing by solving two pieces at once... but I’d have to see if it provides the same solution...

Edit to add: Ahhhhhh.... the thing I was thinking about has to use an M-slice target as part of the pair. You’re doing something more advanced. But I like it!


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## Old Tom (Jun 25, 2018)

pglewis said:


> For spring noise I determine which face(s), take the center cap off, remove the screw completely without disassembling if possible (magnetic cubes are good here), track down the spring since it probably leaped when I wasn't prepared, and put one drop of silicone lube on spring's contact points (the screw-head and the washer in the center).
> 
> I take a good look at roughly how far the screw is in beforehand so I can return it to roughly the same tension afterwards.



Now I'm scared worse, but will wait til I get to the comp and have someone show me. My GAN Magnetic is not as smooth as it was.


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## mark49152 (Jun 26, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> But do you have to learn that for every letter pair?


No, it's just a useful tactic for saving moves. Basically it is a set up move to a commutator (3-cycle) involving the A sticker. Most stickers could be set up to A but some work better than others.


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## openseas (Jun 26, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> Oh! Sorry. I just tried that... totally works! (Of course). But do you have to learn that for every letter pair?
> 
> The process I was describing is I believe essentially the same, but I don’t know it well. It does the same thing by solving two pieces at once... but I’d have to see if it provides the same solution...
> 
> Edit to add: Ahhhhhh.... the thing I was thinking about has to use an M-slice target as part of the pair. You’re doing something more advanced. But I like it!



@SpartanSailor / If you still have the document I gave to you a while ago, it shows all those combinations.
The advantage of advanced M2 is pretty "intuitive" - not meant for much of memorization of algs.

If you have UB-FR pair, UB alone is M2, FR alone is U R U' M2 U R' U'. If you execute two consecutively (not adding or canceling anything inbetween), M2 U R U' M2 U R' U' = [M2, U R U'] commutator. It is basically interchange with M2, inserting with U R U'. So, when you solve "a pair", you can setup any piece to UB then do [M2, setup for the 2nd pair] or [ setup for the 2nd pair, M2].

RB or LB is a great example since you can setup to UB by B or B'. Same goes for UR or UD, simply U' or U sets up to UF location. DB can be setup to UB by B2 as well.


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## openseas (Jun 26, 2018)

BTW, for those of you who want to learn 3-style, this is a very nice tutorial made by Tim Goh (one of Texas BLD gansters ).
His channel has very good tutorials of 3 style, 4 / 5 BLD, and MBLD room concept.


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## pglewis (Jun 26, 2018)

mark49152 said:


> No I did mean back face moves. For example, take HJ speffz.
> 
> Plain M2: (L' B L B' M2 B L' B' L) (U R U' M2 U R' U')
> Advanced M2: (B' M2 (U R U' M2 U R' U') B)



I'm wondering why stop there... this seems to work for a lot of pairs and is blowing my mind. I haven't sat down and thought deeply enough about what the restrictions are.


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## mark49152 (Jun 26, 2018)

pglewis said:


> I'm wondering why stop there... this seems to work for a lot of pairs and is blowing my mind. I haven't sat down and thought deeply enough about what the restrictions are.


No, don't stop there!  The end goal is 3style, and this is just one example of how M2 is a good method to use as a stepping stone to 3style.

Technically what is happening here is a setup to a commutator with M2 interchange. There are lots of other examples. Taking it one step further, you can set up to an M'/M interchange with the FU sticker too. The trick discussed in this thread for efficiently solving the FU and BD targets is an example of this.

Once you get used to setting up to a variety of commutators that interchange on the M slice, it's relatively easy to learn to interchange on the E and S slices instead, and even on the outer layers.


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## SpartanSailor (Jun 26, 2018)

openseas said:


> @SpartanSailor / If you still have the document I gave to you a while ago, it shows all those combinations.
> The advantage of advanced M2 is pretty "intuitive" - not meant for much of memorization of algs.
> 
> If you have UB-FR pair, UB alone is M2, FR alone is U R U' M2 U R' U'. If you execute two consecutively (not adding or canceling anything inbetween), M2 U R U' M2 U R' U' = [M2, U R U'] commutator. It is basically interchange with M2, inserting with U R U'. So, when you solve "a pair", you can setup any piece to UB then do [M2, setup for the 2nd pair] or [ setup for the 2nd pair, M2].
> ...


I do still have it. Relooking at it makes more sense. As I begin to better understand what I’m doing, I can better process new ways to do it.

I’m excited to learn some of these setups, but with my next comp on Saturday I’ll stick with what I’m doing with M2


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## Logiqx (Jun 26, 2018)

40yearstosolve said:


> Reached my goal of sub 2 minutes just now and I am very happy with that (it’s a single solve time, my mean average is a full minute more than that).
> 
> Do you think I am justified in answering the question “how long does it take you to solve” with “about a couple of minutes”
> 
> “Under a minute” is my next goal. I feel chopping off between 60 and 90 seconds will take intuitive F2L (as suggested already by a few of you - thanks) and some training on my finger tricks. And time.



... and so it begins. I started with a goal of 3 minutes, then 2 minutes, then 1:30, then 1:00, then 0:45, then 0:30 and the cycle never seems to end!

You're best placed to answer how long it takes you to solve. After a fair a while, you'll know what is normal, good and bad for you.

You'll always see variation in your times and my rule of thumb is that "normal" solves fall within your median +/- 15% regardless of your speed. e.g. 20 seconds average means that 17 to 23 feels "normal" and just due to how the solve flows or cases encountered. If you're averaging about 2:00 then 1:40 to 2:20 will probably feel normal.

When I'm asked how long it takes me, I usually answer with my mean time (or higher) but if asked "what's the fastest you've ever done it?", I'll tell them my best single and say that it usual takes my mean time.


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## auienrst (Jun 26, 2018)

After a few weeks of inactivity (I've been doing a few solves casually watching the TV to train CN), I did a quick ao5 before a meeting, and was pleasantly surprised! (44.11-40.05-36.16-31.76-47.33)

I used "unlimited" inspection, to find the first pair in x2/y (I'm using Roux). And I nearly broke my old ao5 PB (40.11 vs 39.17) and single (31.76 vs 29.92) even though my "real" pb are with 15s inspection and on a fixed position.
I didn't find a good pair for the last solve, but all resolutions were without skip. I think it's time to practice again


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## Logiqx (Jun 26, 2018)

muchacho said:


> I'll try to get (this year) a sub-20 Ao5 in OH on film, it won't be easy. This is a 23.595 average, I think I shared a video with a 26.483 Ao5, but that was 11 months ago.



Let's go... OH race to sub-20 Ao5 on film. Here's my first video! 

Times: (21.22) 21.61 21.63 21.81 (22.48) = 21.68 Ao5

Cube: Valk Power M


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## muchacho (Jun 26, 2018)

That looked easy, I will need 6 months to get a sub-20 Ao5, and I fell you can get it any time now.


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## Logiqx (Jun 26, 2018)

muchacho said:


> That looked easy, I will need 6 months to get a sub-20 Ao5, and I fell you can get it any time now.



I'm still a fair way from feeling I can get a sub-20 Ao5. I think I need to be over a second faster globally. Catching one on camera will be harder though!

Don't forget that you're officially using the best method for OH as it requires less TPS. That's gotta be a good thing for an oldie!

Do you know full CMLL for OH?


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## muchacho (Jun 27, 2018)

It may be the right method but it's the wrong person, my move count is embarrasing for a Roux solver.

I know 15 CMLL algs (and I'm still missing 5 for 2H), some are not the best for OH. It's what I'm working on right now.


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## mark49152 (Jun 27, 2018)

Just ordered a Giiker Smart Cube. Looks like that could be a lot of fun .


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## 40yearstosolve (Jun 27, 2018)

So intuitive F2L. I found this guy and I really like his style of dumbing it down to basics. This is how I got to where I am today, boiling things down to their lowest common denominator- maybe we all do this?

I can’t fit any more algos in my aging skull so perhaps the ‘intuitive’ part of intuitive F2L is supposed to be learn this way.

But this guy is the best I have found.

Two questions...

1. It feels so awkward and slow beyond words - how the heck do I get fast at this?? Is it purely repetition?

2. Is there a better video anyone can recommend. I know pglewis kindly shared a video but for some reason the guy (I forget his name, but he seems quite well known in YourTube cubing circles).

I am determined to keep at it ready for my summer holiday where instead of reading a book this year I shall become known as ‘that dorky bloke sat over there playing with his stupid puzzle day in day out’ - I hope I am known as that, I’d get a kick out of people not getting it haha.


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## JanW (Jun 27, 2018)

@40yearstosolve did you watch the video I posted? Pglewis suggested JPerm's F2L video. You can always watch more videos to get new views on the subject. Maybe some explanations work better for you than others.

You will get very fast with it if you keep practicing. In the beginning it seems like a lot to digest, and you will keep making mistakes. Just go slowly at first and try to see how the pieces move on the cube. Once it clicks, you will notice how those F2L pairs starts falling into place with ease.


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## mark49152 (Jun 27, 2018)

@40yearstosolve : There's endless debate about algorithmic versus intuitive F2L, but in reality it's not black and white and the end goal is the same. There's nothing wrong with figuring out an intuitive solution then forgetting how it works and executing it from muscle memory for the rest of your life. And there's nothing wrong with finding a cool alg then studying how it works and applying its elements intuitively to your solutions. Ultimately though, you need to be knowledgeable and flexible so that you can choose the best pairs and solutions in each case and solve to different slots without wasting moves or rotations. 

For me, getting good at F2L was a mixture of approaches, depending on what I was enjoying most. It just takes time. Keep at it!


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## Logiqx (Jun 27, 2018)

@40yearstosolve 

My take on the word intuitive is that once you've grasped the basics you can figure out decent solutions for yourself. I remember some cases being hard to figure out but with a bit of trial and error you eventually stumble upon a good solution and through repetition it eventually becomes automatic.

I suggest you put the timer away when learning F2L as it means nothing until you are comfortable with the new approach. It will more than likely double your times to begin with (or worse) but it really is the way forward. It reduces the number of mini-steps in your solve and is far more enjoyable than the robotic beginner method.

I'd thoroughly recommend Feliks' website for beginners through to advanced cubers. Check out the F2L section:

https://www.cubeskills.com/tutorials/f2l


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## 40yearstosolve (Jun 27, 2018)

JanW said:


> @40yearstosolve did you watch the video I posted? Pglewis suggested JPerm's F2L video. You can always watch more videos to get new views on the subject. Maybe some explanations work better for you than others.
> 
> You will get very fast with it if you keep practicing. In the beginning it seems like a lot to digest, and you will keep making mistakes. Just go slowly at first and try to see how the pieces move on the cube. Once it clicks, you will notice how those F2L pairs starts falling into place with ease.


Ahh sorry Jan it was your post with the YouTube link. I did watch it and it scrambled my head. I will watch again. And again heh  it makes sense but I feel I need a cheat sheet which I am attempting to create now. I get the logic, I just seen to be trying any and all combinations until I have the pairs the correct way around. It’s tough isn’t it. But I totally get how it will save a bunch of time because the old way of doing the corners and then to two layers even now when I can’t successfully carry out F2L seems so slow and long-winded.

I think I forgot to post the link to the chap I found...


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## 40yearstosolve (Jun 27, 2018)

mark49152 said:


> @40yearstosolve : There's endless debate about algorithmic versus intuitive F2L, but in reality it's not black and white and the end goal is the same. There's nothing wrong with figuring out an intuitive solution then forgetting how it works and executing it from muscle memory for the rest of your life. And there's nothing wrong with finding a cool alg then studying how it works and applying its elements intuitively to your solutions. Ultimately though, you need to be knowledgeable and flexible so that you can choose the best pairs and solutions in each case and solve to different slots without wasting moves or rotations.
> 
> For me, getting good at F2L was a mixture of approaches, depending on what I was enjoying most. It just takes time. Keep at it!



Cheers Mark. I feel I have ‘found it’ (thanks to you guys) at the right time. Otherwise I would have gone on my holidays practicing my current longer technique and only really got faster due to attrition rather than technique. I have nearly two months to learn iF2L* and then my entire holiday to perfect it

*heh I hope calling it iF2L is allowed!!!


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## 40yearstosolve (Jun 27, 2018)

Logiqx said:


> @40yearstosolve
> 
> My take on the word intuitive is that once you've grasped the basics you can figure out decent solutions for yourself. I remember some cases being hard to figure out but with a bit of trial and error you eventually stumble upon a good solution and through repetition it eventually becomes automatic.
> 
> ...



Thanks for that will have a look. And yep no timer, I am still learning so it takes me around 15 minutes to solve iF2L. I dislike it at the moment because I end up in a bad mood due to the frustration!!! For the first time last night I threw my cube across the room!!!


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## 40yearstosolve (Jun 27, 2018)

40yearstosolve said:


> Thanks for that will have a look. And yep no timer, I am still learning so it takes me around 15 minutes to solve iF2L. I dislike it at the moment because I end up in a bad mood due to the frustration!!! For the first time last night I threw my cube across the room!!!



What a difference a day makes!

Having already learned to listen to the advice of forum members here, I just spent the morning practising iF2L.

And wow!

The word ‘intuitive’ is indeed used for a very good reason.

If I have understood correctly, there are three key scenarios, which is simplifying it greatly - but if you act intuitively (read: logically) using these three scarnarios you can solve every situation.

1. White facing upwards.
2. Order incorrect (non-white is first).
3. Opposite colours racing up.

This is why it’s so hard to find a cheatsheet or explanation. Because in the case of iF2L you must first get a grip of its fundamental idea involving the pairs and slots.

Once you have understood that, the three scenarios I talk of will help you apply that fundamental into solving each pair.

It’s unlike any other principle of cubing I have found so far because a lot of it relies on you being intuitive. Unless here are some people that remember all the algos but wow that would hurt my head.

I am already quicker, less angry and able to write down a cribsheet for myself :-D ..but the crib is only in my language.. to attempt to create one for someone else to read is nigh on impossible because you need to understand the principles first.

I type this for myself, and in the interests of thanking you lovely lot for the help 

Now I just need to speed it up.

Will be interesting to time myself now and in a week’s time.

PS: Apologies for using iF2L, it was quicker to write than Intuitive F2L each time :-/


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## JanW (Jun 27, 2018)

40yearstosolve said:


> PS: Apologies for using iF2L, it was quicker to write than Intuitive F2L each time :-/


Just say F2L.  I'd assume everyone in this thread is talking about mostly intuitive F2L when we talk about F2L. Personally I've learned only two F2L cases as algs, by actually looking up an alg from algdb. One of them I can mirror to all 4 corners, the other I use only with FR corner. And those are for very specific situations where I couldn't quite work out an easy solution on my own.

Congrats on the progress! Yes, those are indeed the three cases you need to learn. Just keep practicing and it will get easier and faster as you get used to the three cases. Over time you will learn shortcuts for how to best set up the different cases. Some of them will become almost algorithmic as you perform them so many times.

Once you are more confident in doing the different insertions, you can also practice inserting F2L pairs blind. Look at the cube and locate a corner and an edge, then look away and try to solve it into the correct spot. I do this all the time if I'm sitting in front of the TV.


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## 40yearstosolve (Jun 27, 2018)

JanW said:


> Just say F2L.  I'd assume everyone in this thread is talking about mostly intuitive F2L when we talk about F2L. Personally I've learned only two F2L cases as algs, by actually looking up an alg from algdb. One of them I can mirror to all 4 corners, the other I use only with FR corner. And those are for very specific situations where I couldn't quite work out an easy solution on my own.
> 
> Congrats on the progress! Yes, those are indeed the three cases you need to learn. Just keep practicing and it will get easier and faster as you get used to the three cases. Over time you will learn shortcuts for how to best set up the different cases. Some of them will become almost algorithmic as you perform them so many times.
> 
> Once you are more confident in doing the different insertions, you can also practice inserting F2L pairs blind. Look at the cube and locate a corner and an edge, then look away and try to solve it into the correct spot. I do this all the time if I'm sitting in front of the TV.



Fantastic thanks for the reassurance Jan.

With the remainder of my solve I think I am at a cross-roads. My mind is beginning to go into muscle memory but hovers between conscious and subconscious because sometimes I am not sure what I am doing and my conscious mind suddenly grabs a hold of the situation and I make a complete mess of it because I start to think what I am doing.

Solving the cube is fast becoming a mind expanding experience. It is much more than you first expect. I don’t think I have ever stuck at anything this long before :-D


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## Logiqx (Jun 27, 2018)

My 3x3x3 practice has been somewhat sporadic over recent weeks but it seems I can still get small bursts of decent times.

I managed to catch a sub-14 Ao5 on film today but I've still got some way to go if I'm to replicate the times of @Selkie.

Times: (12.87) 15.32 13.48 12.94 (19.51) (13.06) = 13.91 Ao5

It would have been a 13.16 Ao5 if the 19.51 hadn't been involved!


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## Jason Green (Jun 27, 2018)

40yearstosolve said:


> What a difference a day makes!
> 
> Having already learned to listen to the advice of forum members here, I just spent the morning practising iF2L.
> 
> ...


As far as just getting used to the three basic cases for f2l I found this two part video good.


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## 40yearstosolve (Jun 27, 2018)

Logiqx said:


> My 3x3x3 practice has been somewhat sporadic over recent weeks but it seems I can still get small bursts of decent times.
> 
> I managed to catch a sub-14 Ao5 on film today but I've still got some way to go if I'm to replicate the times of @Selkie.
> 
> ...



Staggering! Absolutely mesmerising to watch.

It makes me realise I have a long way to go.

Practising *solely* F2L at the moment. Where my fastest complete solve time was 1:38 it now takes me 2:34 to completely *only* the F2L bit!!!!!!! Starting to wonder if I am doing something wrong.


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## Logiqx (Jun 27, 2018)

40yearstosolve said:


> With the remainder of my solve I think I am at a cross-roads. My mind is beginning to go into muscle memory but hovers between conscious and subconscious because sometimes I am not sure what I am doing and my conscious mind suddenly grabs a hold of the situation and I make a complete mess of it because I start to think what I am doing.



If you'd like to understand the last layer a little better you might find the way I teach it to beginners interesting / helpful:

https://github.com/Logiqx/cubing-docs/tree/master/beginner (parts 3 + 4)

This leads into what I call "improver" level which is an easy progression:

https://github.com/Logiqx/cubing-docs/tree/master/improver (parts 3 + 4)

I think you'd probably benefit from the improver approach until such time as you decide to learn "4-look last layer" but start by reviewing the beginner version.


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## Logiqx (Jun 27, 2018)

40yearstosolve said:


> Staggering! Absolutely mesmerising to watch.
> 
> It makes me realise I have a long way to go.
> 
> Practising *solely* F2L at the moment. Where my fastest complete solve time was 1:38 it now takes me 2:34 to completely *only* the F2L bit!!!!!!! Starting to wonder if I am doing something wrong.



Bear in mind that I've been cubing since 2012. Whilst my progress is really quite slow compared to the kids it does show what can be done by someone older and with less spare time. 

I doubt you're doing anything wrong at this stage. In a week or two your solve times will be better than your current record.

Progress often feels slow but every now you'll look back and see how much you've improved.

Edit: I'd second the RiDo video as a good tutorial.


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## pglewis (Jun 27, 2018)

JanW said:


> Pglewis suggested JPerm's F2L video. You can always watch more videos to get new views on the subject. Maybe some explanations work better for you than others.



I suggested JPerm's cross video but I'm not familiar with his F2L vid(s) (not yet, at least). The only F2L vid I think I've watched all the way through before is "RiDo's hunting story" that Jason shared and I think it's a great source for learning the ropes despite being "old" and probably geared towards a younger audience. That's definitely one I'd still point people to for getting started.


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## pglewis (Jun 27, 2018)

40yearstosolve said:


> Practising *solely* F2L at the moment. Where my fastest complete solve time was 1:38 it now takes me 2:34 to completely *only* the F2L bit!!!!!!! Starting to wonder if I am doing something wrong.



It is an ongoing series of "aha!" moments and I continue to get them as I progress. When I took up blindfold solving (which a year and a half ago I would have told you there's no way I can learn) it brought a whole new pile of "aha!" moments and learning from the accomplished folks here keeps bringing more insight. 

You are learning the ropes and how things work right now. Even if it takes you 10 minutes experimenting with a single pair you'll come out with new intuition that will make that situation easier the next time you encounter it. You can solve anything with the three basic cases: corner with white facing up, corner and edge same color facing up, corner and edge different colors facing up. The first pair is easiest in the sense that none of the slots are solved so you can use any slot to split/move pieces around to get them ready to insert. As you solve some slots you become more restricted in order to preserve solved pairs. 

A couple of weeks of practicing those basics will open your eyes to troublesome cases and you'll pick up tricks to handle those better. There are lots of F2L cases, I still continue to evaluate how I deal with certain F2L cases and whether or not there is a better way, that's been ongoing for me for two years. 

Also: definitely don't worry about any distinction between "intuitive F2L" and "algorithmic F2L". No matter how you learn it'll become automatic with practice.


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## pglewis (Jun 27, 2018)

pglewis said:


> I suggested JPerm's cross video but I'm not familiar with his F2L vid(s) (not yet, at least).



... well, with the exception of this one, which is pure awesome but not recommend for an introduction to F2L:


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## SpartanSailor (Jun 27, 2018)

mark49152 said:


> Just ordered a Giiker Smart Cube. Looks like that could be a lot of fun .


I was looking at a video of that last nite and was thinking it could be a fun one to have. I’ll be interested to hear your thoughts on it.


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## SpartanSailor (Jun 27, 2018)

40yearstosolve said:


> Staggering! Absolutely mesmerising to watch.
> 
> It makes me realise I have a long way to go.
> 
> Practising *solely* F2L at the moment. Where my fastest complete solve time was 1:38 it now takes me 2:34 to completely *only* the F2L bit!!!!!!! Starting to wonder if I am doing something wrong.


As a point of reference about slowing down... I use primarily intuitive f2l. Just figured out the basics of how to pair the pieces and just got faster at the same thing. I’ve hit a wall and feel like there are some algs for particular cases that would be beneficial to me now. Well, just adding a couple new options has slowed me considerably. Now I have “think” if that’s the setup I know or not, then I need to remember the alg and do it and hope I don’t make an error. 

It can be frustrating, but I know this slowing down is temporary. And I can tell the solution for a pair is faster so, when I get it into muscle memory, my time will return and I’ll probably finally break thru my next wall...

Anytime you learn something new, you will slow down a bit. But the gains after that are substantial as well.


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## pglewis (Jun 28, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> [...] just adding a couple new options has slowed me considerably. Now I have “think” if that’s the setup I know or not, then I need to remember the alg and do it and hope I don’t make an error.
> 
> It can be frustrating, but I know this slowing down is temporary. And I can tell the solution for a pair is faster so, when I get it into muscle memory, my time will return and I’ll probably finally break thru my next wall...



Very much this. Every time I tweak how I handle an F2L case, add a new alg, etc. it slows me down temporarily because I have to think again. Y'all have witnessed me going sub-30 about 5 different times now .


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## Old Tom (Jun 28, 2018)

40yearstosolve said:


> So intuitive F2L. I found this guy and I really like his style of dumbing it down to basics. This is how I got to where I am today, boiling things down to their lowest common denominator- maybe we all do this?
> 
> I can’t fit any more algos in my aging skull so perhaps the ‘intuitive’ part of intuitive F2L is supposed to be learn this way.
> 
> ...



I am pretty much where you are on this, except (1) I am older, by a lot, and (2) I am not so much focussed on speed as on enjoying the learning process.

I started F2L last April and then, very quickly, once I became aware of the two basic simple cases, could solve anything that came up without learning any algs. You all seem to call this "intuitive", but really, for me, it is at this stage "logical and analytic", my mind is fully involved and I am sort of solving every new position all over again, but with increasing ease, increasing speed, and without really trying to remember anything other than general principles (and formulating these principles as I go on). By the time it becomes "intuitive", muscle-memory, etc., some of the fun of solving it may actually be gone.

There's a price of course. If I'm focussing on the current sequence, then there is zero look-ahead. If the goal is to get faster, then I guess I wiil have to categorize all the cases, recognize them quickly and apply my by-then "intuitive" moves.

I'm just in no rush to move on to that stage.

I lie! The Fredericksburg Open is approaching.


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## SpartanSailor (Jun 28, 2018)

If I’m honest... one reason I’ve taken so long to “study” F2L algs to find optimised ones that work with my style, is because my ego keeps getting in the way. Meanwhile, I bang my head against the wall endlessly to make notional gains, if any...


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## pglewis (Jun 28, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> If I’m honest... one reason I’ve taken so long to “study” F2L algs to find optimised ones that work with my style, is because my ego keeps getting in the way. Meanwhile, I bang my head against the wall endlessly to make notional gains, if any...



BTW, JPerm's PDF that goes with the vid I posted above is a gold mine, IMO. I can only really digest one or two new things at a time so it's a gift that keeps on giving. 

Do you pay attention to edge orientation and use any alternate inserts to flip edges when needed? I have a few alternates for special cases besides just straight sledgehammer. It has taken a while for any of that to pay off with recognition but I'm beginning to be glad I added them.


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## SpartanSailor (Jun 28, 2018)

pglewis said:


> BTW, JPerm's PDF that goes with the vid I posted above is a gold mine, IMO. I can only really digest one or two new things at a time so it's a gift that keeps on giving.
> 
> Do you pay attention to edge orientation and use any alternate inserts to flip edges when needed? I have a few alternates for special cases besides just straight sledgehammer. It has taken a while for any of that to pay off with recognition but I'm beginning to be glad I added them.


I’m starting with the situations that I seem to see often and feel like I waste a LOT of moves getting a solution. There are a few that I’ve happened upon accidentally too... that I like... but that only adds to my confusion.


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## mark49152 (Jun 28, 2018)

Old Tom said:


> You all seem to call this "intuitive", but really, for me, it is at this stage "logical and analytic", my mind is fully involved and I am sort of solving every new position all over again, but with increasing ease, increasing speed, and without really trying to remember anything other than general principles (and formulating these principles as I go on).


You've captured it perfectly. I remember pointing out on this forum, when I joined a few years ago, that "intuitive" doesn't seem the right word to describe this process of learning F2L. But nevertheless, that's what the community calls it, and we're stuck with it.


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## 40yearstosolve (Jun 28, 2018)

Logiqx said:


> If you'd like to understand the last layer a little better you might find the way I teach it to beginners interesting / helpful:
> 
> https://github.com/Logiqx/cubing-docs/tree/master/beginner (parts 3 + 4)
> 
> ...



Logiqx thanks so much, I woke this morning to try F2L and it seems it is sinking in. So I hope I’ll be onto those last layer improvements soon cheers.

Do you teach the cube then?


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## 40yearstosolve (Jun 28, 2018)

Logiqx said:


> Bear in mind that I've been cubing since 2012. Whilst my progress is really quite slow compared to the kids it does show what can be done by someone older and with less spare time.
> 
> I doubt you're doing anything wrong at this stage. In a week or two your solve times will be better than your current record.
> 
> ...



That’s encouraging re 2 weeks. I’ll stick st it  The spare time comment is so true - although I am off work until I recover so the cube is my best friend currently - I get to practise as soon as the kids go to school. My son’s progress is very fast, he’s one algo away from solving it himself. I see my 1980s self in home - at the time I was clueless and I doubt I cared enough to truly try and solve it, whereas my son has really taken to it (must be the great fathering he is receiving!!!)


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## 40yearstosolve (Jun 28, 2018)

pglewis said:


> It is an ongoing series of "aha!" moments and I continue to get them as I progress. When I took up blindfold solving (which a year and a half ago I would have told you there's no way I can learn) it brought a whole new pile of "aha!" moments and learning from the accomplished folks here keeps bringing more insight.
> 
> You are learning the ropes and how things work right now. Even if it takes you 10 minutes experimenting with a single pair you'll come out with new intuition that will make that situation easier the next time you encounter it. You can solve anything with the three basic cases: corner with white facing up, corner and edge same color facing up, corner and edge different colors facing up. The first pair is easiest in the sense that none of the slots are solved so you can use any slot to split/move pieces around to get them ready to insert. As you solve some slots you become more restricted in order to preserve solved pairs.
> 
> ...



You speak wise (and true) words. It doesn’t feel like it at first but after a couple of days it does start to click a little. I’ll report back in 2 years :-D


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## 40yearstosolve (Jun 28, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> As a point of reference about slowing down... I use primarily intuitive f2l. Just figured out the basics of how to pair the pieces and just got faster at the same thing. I’ve hit a wall and feel like there are some algs for particular cases that would be beneficial to me now. Well, just adding a couple new options has slowed me considerably. Now I have “think” if that’s the setup I know or not, then I need to remember the alg and do it and hope I don’t make an error.
> 
> It can be frustrating, but I know this slowing down is temporary. And I can tell the solution for a pair is faster so, when I get it into muscle memory, my time will return and I’ll probably finally break thru my next wall...
> 
> Anytime you learn something new, you will slow down a bit. But the gains after that are substantial as well.



Great to hear you have the same experience.

I can’t stress enough that having this forum is such a help, practically, but also emotionally  Which sounds strange but a lot of the achievement with the cube comes with a lot of time and it’s easy to lose motivation and focus. So hearing others’ achievements keeps me going.

What were your times before/during/after times?


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## 40yearstosolve (Jun 28, 2018)

Old Tom said:


> I am pretty much where you are on this, except (1) I am older, by a lot, and (2) I am not so much focussed on speed as on enjoying the learning process.
> 
> I started F2L last April and then, very quickly, once I became aware of the two basic simple cases, could solve anything that came up without learning any algs. You all seem to call this "intuitive", but really, for me, it is at this stage "logical and analytic", my mind is fully involved and I am sort of solving every new position all over again, but with increasing ease, increasing speed, and without really trying to remember anything other than general principles (and formulating these principles as I go on). By the time it becomes "intuitive", muscle-memory, etc., some of the fun of solving it may actually be gone.
> 
> ...



There is a lovely philosophical approach there and one we could all do to remember: enjoy the act of learning. As humans we always want more and during the learning phase we have a ton of this. Once it becomes muscle memory that is gone. Sure we have the sense of achievement. But the learning is just as enjoyable.

That’s given me a bit of a buzz for the day, thanks Tom. Instead of fighting it and feeling frustration, I will embrace it today. We’ve got lovely weather here at the moment so another day say outside listening to the birds and life go by whilst I crunch the cube is not a bad way to spend your time is it 

Cheers Tom. I will allow you to take some smugness in the fact that age has its advantages: something my kids groan at when I try to impart my experience into them haha  NOW GET YOUR SHOES ON AND BRUSH YOUR TEETH YOU LITTLE SH.....

:-D


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## Logiqx (Jun 28, 2018)

40yearstosolve said:


> Logiqx thanks so much, I woke this morning to try F2L and it seems it is sinking in. So I hope I’ll be onto those last layer improvements soon cheers.
> 
> Do you teach the cube then?



I've taught my other half, my nephew, several friends and work colleagues... about 20 people in total. Some of them have also gone on to teach others.

I created the slide decks so that people could refer back to the merhod and have some basic cube theory if they want it.

Some people stick with the beginner method, some the improver method and some have gone on to learn 4LLL and even PLL.


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## SpartanSailor (Jun 28, 2018)

40yearstosolve said:


> Great to hear you have the same experience.
> 
> I can’t stress enough that having this forum is such a help, practically, but also emotionally  Which sounds strange but a lot of the achievement with the cube comes with a lot of time and it’s easy to lose motivation and focus. So hearing others’ achievements keeps me going.
> 
> What were your times before/during/after times?


I was over a minute when I started learning F2L. I remember wanting to “get under a minute” and when I learned F2L I slowed down a lot. But then I had some steady improvement. Got under a minute and kept going. Now, I average 24-25 seconds but have been “stuck” for awhile. I am taking some time to add more tools to my kit, so to speak. I am experiencing the slow down effect right now as well. But when what I’m learning is more second nature I think I’ll get that elusive sub-20 in comps.


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## 40yearstosolve (Jun 28, 2018)

Logiqx said:


> I've taught my other half, my nephew, several friends and work colleagues... about 20 people in total. Some of them have also gone on to teach others.
> 
> I created the slide decks so that people could refer back to the merhod and have some basic cube theory if they want it.
> 
> Some people stick with the beginner method, some the improver method and some have gone on to learn 4LLL and even PLL.



Ye I can see why people stick with beginner method. It is definitely an achievement.

I base my success in being able a) solve it (done  and b) solving it fast enough for someone not to get bored when they ask me to do it, I reckon that’s sub 1 minute.

The slide deck sounds a great idea, I could use that to teach my youngest, he’s only 7 and not quite as focused as my 9 year old.

I like the fact that you have an ever growing pool of solvers, well done.


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## 40yearstosolve (Jun 28, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> I was over a minute when I started learning F2L. I remember wanting to “get under a minute” and when I learned F2L I slowed down a lot. But then I had some steady improvement. Got under a minute and kept going. Now, I average 24-25 seconds but have been “stuck” for awhile. I am taking some time to add more tools to my kit, so to speak. I am experiencing the slow down effect right now as well. But when what I’m learning is more second nature I think I’ll get that elusive sub-20 in comps.



I’d love to get down to sub 1 minute and 25s is just ridiculous isn’t it :-D it’s laughably fast.


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## Logiqx (Jun 28, 2018)

I caught this on film so thought I would post!

Probability of a cross skip (any colour) is approximately 1 in 31,704


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## Logiqx (Jun 28, 2018)

One last pre-comp video. I haven't recorded any 2x2x2 solves at home in a long time, almost 3 years!

I'm not far off my times from earlier this year but I don't expect to do any more practice before the weekend.

Times: 4.61 4.33 (2.75) 4.59 4.58 5.07 5.27 4.74 3.57 (5.92) (NaN) 3.67 4.15 = 4.45 Ao12

Last 5 solves are a 4.18 Ao5. Fingers crossed for nice scrambles this weekend!


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## pglewis (Jun 28, 2018)

Old Tom said:


> By the time it becomes "intuitive", muscle-memory, etc., some of the fun of solving it may actually be gone.



Oh, do not worry yourself one bit! We're here to push you to take up blindfolded well before you reach ennui.


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## Old Tom (Jun 28, 2018)

pglewis said:


> Oh, do not worry yourself one bit! We're here to push you to take up blindfolded well before you reach ennui.



Oh! I hope not. But who knows. Ennui must be avoided at all cost.


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## 40yearstosolve (Jun 29, 2018)

Logiqx said:


> I caught this on film so thought I would post!
> 
> Probability of a cross skip (any colour) is approximately 1 in 31,704



WTF you just solved this with one bloody hand! Is this video about some cross skip or the bonkers way you seemed to defy gravity!!


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## Logiqx (Jun 29, 2018)

40yearstosolve said:


> WTF you just solved this with one bloody hand! Is this video about some cross skip or the bonkers way you seemed to defy gravity!!



Lol. I was practising OH at the time so the cross skip is the main theme of the video.

It also goes to show that some CN (colour neutral) skills can be useful despite having a white / yellow bias during inspection.

Since you're just starting out, I'd suggest you go colour neutral before you get too stuck on a single colour cross.


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## 40yearstosolve (Jun 29, 2018)

Logiqx said:


> Since you're just starting out, I'd suggest you go colour neutral before you get too stuck on a single colour cross.



I just had a panic attack :-D


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## JohnnyReggae (Jun 29, 2018)

Just managed to smash by 3x3 ao12 with my first sub-14  mo3 and ao5 were close but not pb's. I did manage to keep the ao12 sub-14 for 8 rolling solves which for me is a feat in itself. This was the best of them.

Generated By csTimer on 2018-6-29
*avg of 12: 13.46*

Time List:
1. 12.74 B2 L F2 L2 U D' R F2 D' R2 U' L2 B2 U B2 U B2 
2. 13.76 B L2 D2 F' L2 F U2 F2 R2 B D' F D2 R' D2 B2 R D U' L' 
3. 13.20 L2 B' R2 U2 F2 L2 B' D2 B D' B R B R2 B L' F2 U2 R2 
4. 12.38 L' D2 R2 F L2 F' R2 B U2 R2 L' D F' L R2 U B D' F 
5. 14.16 F U2 R2 F' U2 B D2 U2 F' D2 F' D R2 F' D' L' F2 U2 R2 F' D 
6. 12.43 U2 B' F2 U2 F L2 F R2 D2 R2 F R U' B2 D' B' U' F2 L' R' 
7. 14.47 R' D2 R2 D2 F2 L2 U2 L' D2 R' F D' L2 B' R' F' L' F' D2 B' 
8. 14.05 B2 R B' R' F2 L U F' L' U2 D2 B2 R2 U F2 B2 U' 
9. (11.49) L2 D' F U' B L B R' D2 F R F2 U2 L' B2 U2 R F2 R D2 R 
10. (16.21) R2 B' D2 U2 L2 D2 B' U2 F' L2 B U' B L2 B L' D U' B2 L2 B 
11. 13.43 F2 B L' B U' R L' D' F' U' B' D2 L2 B2 L2 B2 D2 L2 F 
12. 13.96 R' B2 R' L2 D' F' D2 B' U2 R' U2 F2 U B2 L2 U2 D' R2 F2 L2


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## SpartanSailor (Jun 29, 2018)

Final day prior to my competition tomorrow in Maryland, USA. I haven’t had much chance in the past couple days to practice 3BLD. But, have been drilling edges a little and still feel that I’m in decent “shape” to get a sub-5. It’s absolutlely doable... just hope my nerves don’t supercede my knowledge.

As to my 3x3 or 4x4 and Skewb... forget about it. I haven’t touched my skewb in so long, I’ll have to dust it off. As to 4x4, I’ve been stuck around mid-1:20s for a long time. I’ve learned a couple special last two edge cases, but I don’t see that helping tremendously. Maybe a second or two if that particular case shows up (and I notice while under the pressure of the timer). I DO think my next 4x4 “breakthrough” will happen along with my 3x3 breakthrough. Which brings me to 3x3.

I have NOT had a good week of time leading up to tomorrow. MUCH slower this morning than I have been in several months. Perhaps I’m not fully warmed up, or something, but having added just a few F2L algs to my kit has had a serious impact on my times. I’m going to try to keep my ego in check tomorrow and simply not concern myself with 3x3 times whatsoever. Instead, I’m going to focus on doing well in 3BLD. And, honestly, for tomorrow I don’t much care about the other events. 

Hopefully the F2L practice will payoff by the end of July when I have one in Fredericksburg (with @Old Tom ). But, as much as I hate seeing my times slowdown, I am hopeful it will be worth it in a few more weeks of practice.


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## mark49152 (Jun 29, 2018)

Good luck @SpartanSailor and everyone else competing this weekend! And good luck @newtonbase, I hope you get to compete!


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## Old Tom (Jun 29, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> Hopefully the F2L practice will payoff by the end of July when I have one in Fredericksburg (with @Old Tom ). But, as much as I hate seeing my times slowdown, I am hopeful it will be worth it in a few more weeks of practice.



Good luck! And in FBg you will be blazing fast compared to me.


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## 40yearstosolve (Jun 29, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> Final day prior to my competition tomorrow in Maryland, USA. I haven’t had much chance in the past couple days to practice 3BLD. But, have been drilling edges a little and still feel that I’m in decent “shape” to get a sub-5. It’s absolutlely doable... just hope my nerves don’t supercede my knowledge.
> 
> As to my 3x3 or 4x4 and Skewb... forget about it. I haven’t touched my skewb in so long, I’ll have to dust it off. As to 4x4, I’ve been stuck around mid-1:20s for a long time. I’ve learned a couple special last two edge cases, but I don’t see that helping tremendously. Maybe a second or two if that particular case shows up (and I notice while under the pressure of the timer). I DO think my next 4x4 “breakthrough” will happen along with my 3x3 breakthrough. Which brings me to 3x3.
> 
> ...



Good luck for the comp.

I am also on a slow down due to F2L. It’s the hardest aspect I have had to learn to-date and it’s driving me mad. It feels anything but intuitive at the moment :-/ turning solve times from sub 2 minutes to 5+ minutes :-( and I’ve spent approx 3 hours each day this week on it!!!!!! I feel the need to punch an elephant :-D


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## Old Tom (Jun 29, 2018)

40yearstosolve said:


> Good luck for the comp.
> 
> I am also on a slow down due to F2L. It’s the hardest aspect I have had to learn to-date and it’s driving me mad. It feels anything but intuitive at the moment :-/ turning solve times from sub 2 minutes to 5+ minutes :-( and I’ve spent approx 3 hours each day this week on it!!!!!! I feel the need to punch an elephant :-D



Are you concentrating on getting to the two simple cases, prior to pair insertion? Joined Pair (aligned) or Separated Pair (pseudo-misaligned) on the U face? That is what quickly made F2L logical/intuitive for me.


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## 40yearstosolve (Jun 29, 2018)

Old Tom said:


> Are you concentrating on getting to the two simple cases, prior to pair insertion? Joined Pair (aligned) or Separated Pair (pseudo-misaligned) on the U face? That is what quickly made F2L logical/intuitive for me.



Yes, I think so.

Same colour on top.
Opposite colours on top.
White on top.

I ‘get it’, I am just slow a) finding the matching edge to the white corner and b) then figuring out and executing the correct move.

I have a good video explaining the different rules but of course the rules sometimes don’t quite work when you are restricted on slots.


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## Old Tom (Jun 29, 2018)

OK. Now, also, another part of your mind should be thinking:

Any R, L or F move is going to disturb the Cross, but you are then free to make any U move, then restore the Cross. You don't have to restore immediately, but then it will get tricky. So, I usually do.

When you do restore the Cross, you can "cleverly" first make a U turn that will drop an edge piece, to be brought up next with a desired location and/or twist.

As you already know, when pairs have already been inserted, they have to be preserved. It has helped me a lot to realize that when you slide that completed block along the bottom, it can then be easily returned to its location. But if you slide it up, uhh, don't do that unless you are smarter than me.

Those three general ideas, and others that I keep finding along the way, are part of the "Oh, what fun" aspect of F2L.



40yearstosolve said:


> Yes, I think so.
> 
> Same colour on top.
> Opposite colours on top.
> ...


so


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## JohnnyReggae (Jun 29, 2018)

So I managed to smash my mo3 and ao5 in today's fairly long session   A total of 240 solves (I said it was long) ... of those 121 were sub-15  with 4 10's and 5 11's .... followed by plenty of 12's, 13's, and 14's 

Generated By csTimer on 2018-6-29
*mean of 3: 11.83*

Time List:
1. 12.99 R U2 F2 U2 L2 F' D2 F2 L2 F2 L2 B' L B F L D R2 B' L2 R2 
2. 10.71 B2 D U B2 D F2 D L2 B2 R F' D' U' L2 R B' U L' 
3. 11.80 B D2 R2 F2 U2 B2 U' B2 L2 F2 L2 D' R F' U' B F2 L D2 R'

Generated By csTimer on 2018-6-29
*avg of 5: 12.71*

Time List:
1. (15.64) L' B' U2 L2 U2 R2 U2 B2 U2 L R D' L' F D L2 R' 
2. 12.99 R U2 F2 U2 L2 F' D2 F2 L2 F2 L2 B' L B F L D R2 B' L2 R2 
3. (10.71) B2 D U B2 D F2 D L2 B2 R F' D' U' L2 R B' U L' 
4. 11.80 B D2 R2 F2 U2 B2 U' B2 L2 F2 L2 D' R F' U' B F2 L D2 R' 
5. 13.34 U2 B U2 B' D2 U2 R2 F U2 R2 B' U F' L R' U R' B' L2 B2


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## 40yearstosolve (Jun 29, 2018)

Old Tom said:


> OK. Now, also, another part of your mind should be thinking:
> 
> Any R, L or F move is going to disturb the Cross, but you are then free to make any U move, then restore the Cross. You don't have to restore immediately, but then it will get tricky. So, I usually do.
> 
> ...


Haha yes it’s quite a mind bender. The theory actually is quite easy, and the turns are simple. But it requires quite a lot of brain power to figure out where the block is and what move to make based on orientation. Compared to the ‘beginners’ first two layer approach which is more ‘match and move’ and you can drift off into a semi-conscious malaise 

Am I correct in thinking that with the ‘opposite colours’ scenario where ideally you would align the white block with its matching side that sometimes you cannot do this because of preserving the completed slots? —I have contemplated videoing myself to show you, part of my main struggle with motivation is the confidence knowing I am doing things correctly/optimally. There’s nothing more off-putting that the niggling doubt that you are doing it wrong and learning a bad technique.


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## newtonbase (Jun 29, 2018)

mark49152 said:


> Good luck @SpartanSailor and everyone else competing this weekend! And good luck @newtonbase, I hope you get to compete!


Yes, good luck everyone. 
I've pretty much given up on getting a chance to compete which means my next MBLD will be WSM. It's a shame as I've been practicing for over 10 weeks to qualify for the UKs.
Was there a pre comp email?


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## Jason Green (Jun 29, 2018)

40yearstosolve said:


> Haha yes it’s quite a mind bender. The theory actually is quite easy, and the turns are simple. But it requires quite a lot of brain power to figure out where the block is and what move to make based on orientation. Compared to the ‘beginners’ first two layer approach which is more ‘match and move’ and you can drift off into a semi-conscious malaise
> 
> Am I correct in thinking that with the ‘opposite colours’ scenario where ideally you would align the white block with its matching side that sometimes you cannot do this because of preserving the completed slots? —I have contemplated videoing myself to show you, part of my main struggle with motivation is the confidence knowing I am doing things correctly/optimally. There’s nothing more off-putting that the niggling doubt that you are doing it wrong and learning a bad technique.


You can always do any of the cases, but sometimes there is an extra setup move first. For opposite colors, the edge has to be across from the corner such that the white sticker is on the "side" of the pair (either left or right). If the edge is across such the white sticker is "behind" the pair, then first you need to move the edge in place. So you could "hide" the corner by putting it down and bringing an unsolved pair up, then do a U or U' to position the edge, then restore the cross. After that you execute the normal insert.

Kind of hard to describe easily huh? It would be great if you could sit with a cuber and let them watch, I bet they could help with your confusion very quickly!


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## pglewis (Jun 29, 2018)

40yearstosolve said:


> I have a good video explaining the different rules but of course the rules sometimes don’t quite work when you are restricted on slots.



A tiny bit of edge orientation magic might be useful. When you have both corner and edge in the U face and they're apart (not joined incorrectly): look at the color on top of the edge you want to pair and put that color in front. This isn't always good advice but right now it will probably save you a lot of rotations and set you up for the best inserts for the 3 main cases. Orienting this way guarantees the target slot will be in either the front left or front right and thus not a restricted slot. 

White on top: orient based on the top color on the edge, line the edge's side color up with either the L or R side depending on which it matches, all set to start paring them turning that side away from the front.

Same color on top: same deal, whatever the top of the edge is put that in front. Put the corner in the back left or back right, whichever side the pair goes in. Hide that corner by turning whichever side it's on away from the front, move the edge to the back, un-hide the corner and they're paired.

Different colors on top: a little trickier because you must have the corner and edge in one correct alignment before the insert, but once you do: same choice for front color as the other two cases and the 3 move insert is done with the corner in your front right or front left, whichever side the target slot is on.

Pairs that are already incorrectly joined together throw another wrench into things and I suggest just playing around with those cases and learning how you can deal with them. It pays off, you'll get a better feel for what you can and can't do during F2L. You can always consult us or one of the many alg lists if a specific case stumps you or is annoying.


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## pglewis (Jun 29, 2018)

Good luck to all those competing or hoping to this weekend!


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## 40yearstosolve (Jun 29, 2018)

Jason Green said:


> You can always do any of the cases,



It sounds like you execute F2L in a more automated way. Any of the cases? Do you execute randomly a case to see if it works? I am hunting for what feels like forever just to find the edge square. It’s really starting to agitate me how slow I am at even recognising a scenario. I can see there are less moves than my beginners method but wow this is hurting my mind and enthusiasm.


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## 40yearstosolve (Jun 29, 2018)

pglewis said:


> A tiny bit of edge orientation magic might be useful. When you have both corner and edge in the U face and they're apart (not joined incorrectly): look at the color on top of the edge you want to pair and put that color in front. This isn't always good advice but right now it will probably save you a lot of rotations and set you up for the best inserts for the 3 main cases. Orienting this way guarantees the target slot will be in either the front left or front right and thus not a restricted slot.
> 
> White on top: orient based on the top color on the edge, line the edge's side color up with either the L or R side depending on which it matches, all set to start paring them turning that side away from the front.
> 
> ...



More nuggets in there than I count on both hands thank you  I will incorporate ghost into my cheat sheet.

But goodness I am in a bad mood trying to figure it out. So far my cubing has been quite relaxing but this has got me angry :-/


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## chtiger (Jun 29, 2018)

Comp for me tomorrow too. I'll post some goals because why not--
at least 3 PBs including one of the following (in order of likelihood):
2x2: sub 6 avg
clock: sub 9 avg
pyra: sub 10 avg
3x3: sub 20 avg
3BLD: any avg
4BLD: sub 10:00

Practicing yesterday, had my first sub 8 clock avg of 12. Previous best was 8.32


Spoiler: 7.94 avg of 12



1. 7.16 UR2+ DR2+ DL0+ UL5+ U4+ R4- D2- L0+ ALL5- y2 U2+ R2- D2+ L3- ALL3- UR DR UL
2. 7.66 UR1- DR5- DL0+ UL4- U0+ R1+ D5- L1+ ALL6+ y2 U4+ R0+ D1- L2+ ALL0+ DR DL
3. 7.11 UR6+ DR2+ DL4+ UL5+ U2- R4+ D2+ L4- ALL2- y2 U5- R0+ D3- L3- ALL1- DL UL
4. 8.23 UR2- DR1- DL1+ UL3+ U4+ R1+ D2+ L4+ ALL4- y2 U1+ R2- D3- L1- ALL5- DR DL UL
5. 7.81 UR0+ DR1+ DL5- UL2+ U2- R6+ D1- L5+ ALL3- y2 U1- R2- D1- L3+ ALL2- DL
6. 9.40 UR1+ DR6+ DL1- UL4+ U5+ R2+ D3+ L1+ ALL2+ y2 U4- R1+ D5+ L5- ALL1- DR UL
7. (9.74) UR2- DR1+ DL4- UL5+ U2- R2- D6+ L1- ALL6+ y2 U1+ R1- D4- L2+ ALL5+ UR UL
8. 8.16 UR4+ DR6+ DL5- UL4- U5+ R6+ D3+ L6+ ALL0+ y2 U5+ R5- D5- L2- ALL1- UR
9. 7.66 UR2- DR0+ DL3- UL3- U3+ R2- D2+ L4- ALL1- y2 U1+ R1+ D3+ L4- ALL5+ UR UL
10. 8.17 UR6+ DR4- DL4- UL2- U2- R2+ D4+ L5+ ALL0+ y2 U0+ R4- D2+ L1- ALL4+ UL
11. 8.07 UR0+ DR2- DL6+ UL5+ U4+ R1+ D4+ L6+ ALL5- y2 U4- R2- D3- L4- ALL1- DR DL
12. (6.98) UR5- DR1- DL4- UL2- U1- R2- D3+ L5+ ALL6+ y2 U0+ R1- D4+ L0+ ALL5+ UR DL UL


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## Jason Green (Jun 29, 2018)

40yearstosolve said:


> It sounds like you execute F2L in a more automated way. Any of the cases? Do you execute randomly a case to see if it works? I am hunting for what feels like forever just to find the edge square. It’s really starting to agitate me how slow I am at even recognising a scenario. I can see there are less moves than my beginners method but wow this is hurting my mind and enthusiasm.


Sorry what I meant was any of the 3 basic cases. Same color on top, opposite colors on top, or white on top. It can be hard spotting the edge, I can relate when I try to be color neutral! This is probably what you do already, but I suggest finding a white corner, seeing what two other colors are on that corner (say red and blue), and then looking for the red and blue edge.


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## openseas (Jun 29, 2018)

Good luck to all, we'll be also competing tomorrow as well.
This will be my 2nd Summer comp I'm organizing out of 4 (summer comps) in total. Unfortunately, Jason can't make it, but I found a new oldie(!) registered, excited to find him tomorrow. Good thing to be an organizer, you get to see competitors' age information 

Will give you guys update after the comp!


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## Old Tom (Jun 29, 2018)

40yearstosolve said:


> Haha yes it’s quite a mind bender. The theory actually is quite easy, and the turns are simple. But it requires quite a lot of brain power to figure out where the block is and what move to make based on orientation. Compared to the ‘beginners’ first two layer approach which is more ‘match and move’ and you can drift off into a semi-conscious malaise
> 
> Am I correct in thinking that with the ‘opposite colours’ scenario where ideally you would align the white block with its matching side that sometimes you cannot do this because of preserving the completed slots? —I have contemplated videoing myself to show you, part of my main struggle with motivation is the confidence knowing I am doing things correctly/optimally. There’s nothing more off-putting that the niggling doubt that you are doing it wrong and learning a bad technique.



Actually, if I understand you, no. You can always create a desired "opposite colors" case (I and I think others call that the Separated Pairs case) by dropping down an edge, then bringing it up. And you can always "drop and then bring back" without permanently messing up a completed slot, by inserting appropriate U moves before the drop and before the bring. Make the first U so that the drop is into an available slot and so that the completed block on the same face slides along the bottom (will slide back later). This is one of the points in my earlier post.

Sorry that I can't make videos to explain. I could write down the alg (I never do, but could), but would also have to show you the starting state.

I guess I need to learn to make videos and/or graphics that I can post.


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## pglewis (Jun 29, 2018)

40yearstosolve said:


> More nuggets in there than I count on both hands thank you  I will incorporate ghost into my cheat sheet.
> 
> But goodness I am in a bad mood trying to figure it out. So far my cubing has been quite relaxing but this has got me angry :-/



FWIW, my current frustrations are pretty much the same as yours. My pauses to find the pieces I need are much shorter, but I'm still working to find things faster myself. Patience. Or failing that, stubbornness is a fair substitute.


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## 40yearstosolve (Jun 29, 2018)

chtiger said:


> Comp for me tomorrow too. I'll post some goals because why not--
> at least 3 PBs including one of the following (in order of likelihood):
> 2x2: sub 6 avg
> clock: sub 9 avg
> ...



Unbelievable! Good luck.


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## 40yearstosolve (Jun 29, 2018)

Jason Green said:


> Sorry what I meant was any of the 3 basic cases. Same color on top, opposite colors on top, or white on top. It can be hard spotting the edge, I can relate when I try to be color neutral! This is probably what you do already, but I suggest finding a white corner, seeing what two other colors are on that corner (say red and blue), and then looking for the red and blue edge.



Yep I always start with the white corner then hunt the edge. But when I see someone do F2L in ‘seconds’ I can’t see how I can find an edge quick enough.

I am starting to lose the faith aren’t I.

It’s moments like these when your metal is tested.

Must. Try. Harder.


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## 40yearstosolve (Jun 29, 2018)

Old Tom said:


> Actually, if I understand you, no. You can always create a desired "opposite colors" case (I and I think others call that the Separated Pairs case) by dropping down an edge, then bringing it up. And you can always "drop and then bring back" without permanently messing up a completed slot, by inserting appropriate U moves before the drop and before the bring. Make the first U so that the drop is into an available slot and so that the completed block on the same face slides along the bottom (will slide back later). This is one of the points in my earlier post.
> 
> Sorry that I can't make videos to explain. I could write down the alg (I never do, but could), but would also have to show you the starting state.
> 
> I guess I need to learn to make videos and/or graphics that I can post.



Thanks Tom - I think I should be the one to make the video and you can critique it.

I will persevere and arise again with hopefully less doldrums


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## 40yearstosolve (Jun 29, 2018)

pglewis said:


> FWIW, my current frustrations are pretty much the same as yours. My pauses to find the pieces I need are much shorter, but I'm still working to find things faster myself. Patience. Or failing that, stubbornness is a fair substitute.



And anger.

Seeing my frustration, my eldest (9) suggested I buy a spare cube we can throw at the wall and smash during times of F2L badness


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## mark49152 (Jun 29, 2018)

newtonbase said:


> Yes, good luck everyone.
> I've pretty much given up on getting a chance to compete which means my next MBLD will be WSM. It's a shame as I've been practicing for over 10 weeks to qualify for the UKs.
> Was there a pre comp email?


Not that I noticed. Might have gone into junk mail though. Are you coming anyway? It's worth asking them anyway but don't get your hopes up because they've been pretty strict on registrations recently.


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## CLL Smooth (Jun 29, 2018)

Decided after seven and a half years of cubing to go for CN. Got my first sub-20 Ao12 on a non-white/yellow cross. Only doing blue/green exclusively right now. Feels weird to regress 6 years.


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## JanW (Jun 30, 2018)

40yearstosolve said:


> Am I correct in thinking that with the ‘opposite colours’ scenario where ideally you would align the white block with its matching side that sometimes you cannot do this because of preserving the completed slots?


You can always preserve completed slots, because there is always at least one slot that is not commpleted - the one you are about to insert to.

That's one part where I don't agree with the F2L video I posted. He says always bring the corner piece on top of the corner you are about to insert to. That is bad, because with corner piece there, you cannot hide it without disturbing another slot. There's no need to move the U layer anywhere until you have located the corner and the edge. Once this is done, figure out how they need to be placed in relation to each other based on the case. Then turn U layer as necessary, so that you can hide the piece that needs to be hidden. If you want to insert to FR, the you will often want corner piece in FB so that you can hide it with an R move. And remember that both corner or edge can be hidden, depending on the case.

Like Old Tom said, it's all about doing one move that disturbs the cross, then one or more U moves, then restore the cross. You can scramble F2L by doing only moves like R - any U move - R', or R' - any U move - R, or same on left, with extra U moves in between and maybe a 90 degree cube rotation on Y axis every now and then. No matter how much you do this, the cross should still be preserved. I'd suggest you do scrambles like this while practicing F2L. That way you get used to the kind of moves you are supposed to do while solving F2L.


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## pglewis (Jun 30, 2018)

40yearstosolve said:


> And anger.
> 
> Seeing my frustration, my eldest (9) suggested I buy a spare cube we can throw at the wall and smash during times of F2L badness



"There will come a point, when polishing the mountain, that you will think, "Well, this is pointless. This is never going to be done." This is the mountain testing your resolve. It is of vital importance when this moment arrives, to stop, take a breath, and recommit to the joy of the moment and the simple act of polishing. Soon thereafter, the mountain will surrender."


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## newtonbase (Jun 30, 2018)

mark49152 said:


> Not that I noticed. Might have gone into junk mail though. Are you coming anyway? It's worth asking them anyway but don't get your hopes up because they've been pretty strict on registrations recently.


The pre comp email usually reminds people to notify them if they are not coming so I was hoping there would be one. I know there was a competitor on the waiting list for HWO who found out on the Saturday that he was allowed to come to day 2 so you never know.
i plan to get there by the lunch break and leave after MBLD. I'll judge if I can't compete.


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## 40yearstosolve (Jun 30, 2018)

pglewis said:


> "There will come a point, when polishing the mountain, that you will think, "Well, this is pointless. This is never going to be done." This is the mountain testing your resolve. It is of vital importance when this moment arrives, to stop, take a breath, and recommit to the joy of the moment and the simple act of polishing. Soon thereafter, the mountain will surrender."



I will print that out, superbly wise words and very much needed at this moment in time. Thank you my friend.


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## Old Tom (Jun 30, 2018)

pglewis said:


> "There will come a point, when polishing the mountain, that you will think, "Well, this is pointless. This is never going to be done." This is the mountain testing your resolve. It is of vital importance when this moment arrives, to stop, take a breath, and recommit to the joy of the moment and the simple act of polishing. Soon thereafter, the mountain will surrender."



Exactly. Who wants it to be easy? Easy is boring. Polish away.


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## SpartanSailor (Jun 30, 2018)

Question:

What is multi blind “old style”?

I noticed that on someone’s WCA history but can’t fogure out what it is, or rather, how it’s didferent from MBLD today.


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## newtonbase (Jun 30, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> Question:
> 
> What is multi blind “old style”?
> 
> I noticed that on someone’s WCA history but can’t fogure out what it is, or rather, how it’s didferent from MBLD today.


Originally you had to solve all of your cubes and there was no time limit.


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## SpartanSailor (Jun 30, 2018)

Ahhh. Easily enough understood. I can see why they changed it to have a time limit. What was the record before they did the points system? I can’t imagine spending over an hour doing memo on 30+ cubes just to get a DNF for 1 twisted corner on a single cube...like 29 for 30 solved.


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## Mike Hughey (Jun 30, 2018)

Not quite. (I had a 15/15 in multiBLD old style - a NAR.) There was a time limit of 10 minutes per cube, and for a while that was with the point system.

Also, even before my time, a full solve required 100% accuracy. But that had changed by the time I did my 15/15.

We changed to "new style" shortly after the great Ryosuke Mondo attempted 50 cubes in 6 hours.

I'm not sure what the record was before the point system appeared. I think it was obscured because of Matyas Kuti's record which was later invalidated. So you'd have to check all the data to find it.


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## xyzzy (Jun 30, 2018)

Here's a list of all old-style MBLD results.

Not sure what the greyed out results (the bottom half of the list) mean. Are those supposed to be DNFs?


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## Mike Hughey (Jun 30, 2018)

Ah! thanks for that!!

Yes, the grayed out ones at the bottom are DNFs. They were before the point system, when you needed 100% accuracy.

So then when I did my 15/15, if the old rule had still been in effect, I would have been world #2 at the time - only Tim Habermaas was above me!

You can see Matyas' 0/15 at the bottom. That was 15/15 and the world record before it got invalidated.


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## 40yearstosolve (Jun 30, 2018)

Old Tom said:


> Exactly. Who wants it to be easy? Easy is boring. Polish away.



Yep, it was a great reminder to enjoy the learning.

And it also serves as a point of satisfaction when you show someone you can solve it.

And polishing together helps —my son just completed his first solve on his own - from memory, cribsheets slowly disappeared one by one over the weeks. We had a celebration  Even though he’s nine it’s great to be able to bounce off each other.

Because because I am learning F2L his 2:38 is faster than me - and in fact on par with my previous fastest time! I sense trouble ahead :-D


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## Mike Hughey (Jun 30, 2018)

At age 9, he's at an ideal age to become awesome at cubing. Prepare for him to sail past you. 

But the good news is, you might be able to keep up with him a bit longer if you take up blindfolded solving - us oldies do better against the kids in blindfolded solving than we tend to do with speedsolving.

Unless your son turns out to be like @openseas 's son, that is.


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## 40yearstosolve (Jun 30, 2018)

Mike Hughey said:


> At age 9, he's at an ideal age to become awesome at cubing. Prepare for him to sail past you.
> 
> But the good news is, you might be able to keep up with him a bit longer if you take up blindfolded solving - us oldies do better against the kids in blindfolded solving than we tend to do with speedsolving.
> 
> Unless your son turns out to be like @openseas 's son, that is.



He and I were discussing blindfold cubing after we both registered on WCAs website and you can select the categories. We couldn’t even imagine how it was possible, but agreed that after our experience of learning to cube that it would entirely be possible - it was just that we didn’t know how yet. Shows what confidence cubing can give. Amazing really when you think.

Ye @openseas kids, and wife, are amazing. What a great thing. I look forward to us both going to a comp. what made my son relax is that the time limit is 10 mins - that indicates how relaxed it is.


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## SpartanSailor (Jun 30, 2018)

Still have 4x4 and 5x5 to go.... but....

3x3 was an absolute disaster. But 3BLD went well... 4:11 official solve. 

Pushed my memo a little for the second attempt and ended with a DNF. HOWEVER, I had just enuff time to make a legit (pushed memo) 3rd attempt. Had some execution mistakes and tried to fix them during the solve. Would have been a DNF anyway, but I also hit my max cumulative time and so ran out of time. 

Doesn’t matter what happens with 4x4 and 5x5 at this point. I came here to get a sub-5 BLD and that was my primary focus. I’m thrilled with my 4:11.


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## newtonbase (Jun 30, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> Still have 4x4 and 5x5 to go.... but....
> 
> 3x3 was an absolute disaster. But 3BLD went well... 4:11 official solve.
> 
> ...


Congratulations. That's a great time. Sub 4 and MBLD next comp? 

I'm back home after a brief visit to the Peterborough Open. I didn't get to compete in MBLD but saw some top quality attempts with 15 points missing podium. Well done to @mark49152 for getting 15/20 sub hour and to @Shaky Hands for his PB.

My new MBLD goal is to get under the hour for 12 at WSM at the end of the year but focus has to shift a bit towards 3-5 blind for the UKs.


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## SpartanSailor (Jun 30, 2018)

That’s the goal! Sub-4 next time. 

I know the delegate and coordinators here decently well. They have MBLD tomorrow... if they let me add today, I’ll give 2 a shot, but submit 3 cubes and make an official attempt at 3 cubes. Then, I’ll have 30 minutes to get at least 2 of them down solid with plenty of memo review.


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## newtonbase (Jun 30, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> That’s the goal! Sub-4 next time.
> 
> I know the delegate and coordinators here decently well. They have MBLD tomorrow... if they let me add today, I’ll give 2 a shot, but submit 3 cubes and make an official attempt at 3 cubes. Then, I’ll have 30 minutes to get at least 2 of them down solid with plenty of memo review.


If you submit 4 you'll have ten minutes extra for the 2 you do attempt 2/4 is an official success.


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## h2f (Jun 30, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> 3BLD went well... 4:11 official solve.



Awsome. Congrats!


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## pglewis (Jun 30, 2018)

40yearstosolve said:


> Because because I am learning F2L his 2:38 is faster than me - and in fact on par with my previous fastest time! I sense trouble ahead :-D



All other things being equal: younger folks have faster reflexes. I think the gray beards can turn nearly as fast with practice... I don't think the physical aspect is demanding enough to be a big issue unless there is an actual physical problem (and we've had time to develop those). But just like with video games, they can react quite a bit faster and probably progress faster on average. They're quickly invading blindfold at a younger age now too but I love to see guys like Mark keeping them on their toes 

I would forget about the timer for at least a few weeks while picking up new things. I tackled full OLL last fall and it probably took me three months before my longer averages were back to what they were with 2-look OLL. If you keep experimenting with F2L, identifing the things that slow you the most and addressing them in priority, you *will* be faster than when you went in. 



SpartanSailor said:


> 3x3 was an absolute disaster. But 3BLD went well... 4:11 official solve.



Nicely done under comp pressure, that'll put a smile on your face for the drive home! Seeing some of your recent splits you execute noticeably faster than I, even before switching to M2. I think I could use a week of sighted execution practice.


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## SpartanSailor (Jun 30, 2018)

pglewis said:


> Nicely done under comp pressure, that'll put a smile on your face for the drive home! Seeing some of your recent splits you execute noticeably faster than I, even before switching to M2. I think I could use a week of sighted execution practice.


I was definitely pleased and very glad it happened on my first attempt. Took ALL the pressure off the next two attempts. I was able to really have fun and enjoy the next two solves without piling on self-imposed pressure. I definitely have a HUGE opportunity for improvement with memo time. So, I’m pretty excited.

As it turned out, I nailed my 4x4 first solve too for an official competition PB of 1:14.74.... narrowly making the cutoff of 1:15. Followed up with a 1:12 for my second solve. Walking away with a new PB single and PB ao5 today too in 4x4. 

So far, 3x3 was my least concerned event coming into the day. So even though it was a mess, I’m not upset. The 3BLD success was my main goal... actually making the 4x4 cutoff was a VERY pleasant bonus on the day.


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## Old Tom (Jun 30, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> Still have 4x4 and 5x5 to go.... but....
> 
> 3x3 was an absolute disaster. But 3BLD went well... 4:11 official solve.
> 
> ...



Ha! You barely made your 5:00 3BLD goal, only 0:49 to spare. Whew! Congrats.


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## mark49152 (Jun 30, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> 3BLD went well... 4:11 official solve.


Nice job @SpartanSailor! Congrats.

After my first official 3BLD success, I was feeling confident and happy and was persuaded by a friend to enter MBLD. I had never done it before, but he gave me some basic advice and I got a 2/2 in about 16 minutes. I was glad I let myself be persuaded . Go for it tomorrow! Good luck!

Nice to catch up with @newtonbase, @Shaky Hands and the UK contingent today. 15/20 was a little disappointing but at least a step forward from Guildford. I forgot corners on the first cube, fumbled one, and I'm not sure about the others but I'm pretty sure I mixed up some memo between cubes. I'll know after watching the video back. Generally it felt OK, but during memo of the last 4-block when time was getting tight and others were starting execution, I really started to feel the pressure and I think that threw my concentration a bit. Next attempt at Euros in 3 weeks...


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## SpartanSailor (Jun 30, 2018)

Old Tom said:


> Ha! You barely made your 5:00 3BLD goal, only 0:49 to spare. Whew! Congrats.


Yeah... barely made it;-)

Although, making the 1:15 cutoff for 4x4 with a 1:14.74... was cutting it close!


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## chtiger (Jul 1, 2018)

A mixed bag of results at comp. Had 5 PBs, which was more than I hoped for, but didn't hit any of my specific targets. Highlights were an 11:14 4BLD which was lucky enough to get 1st place, and a 7.13 clock single.
http://cubecomps.com/live.php?cid=3308&compid=18



Spoiler: a few more details



pyra: PB single and avg in the first round. Decent comp times for me.

3x3: First round was typical comp sloppy turning slow times, except for the last solve which was almost PB. Second round was good and would've easily been sub 20 if I hadn't done the wrong PLL and DNFed what was an 18.33. Still ended up PB avg of 20.25

3BLD: First attempt was heading for around 1:50, but then got confused with my edges. Second was a fairly slow success of 2:46. Third, I twisted a corner the wrong way, but wasn't mush faster anyway, I think 2:33

4BLD: Had the 11:14 on my first. Was happy with that, it's a good comp time for me. Couldn't get focused during second memo and was struggling a bit, so just quit and called it a day on BLD.

clock: good thing I had the PB single because the rest was a disaster. 5 big screw-ups and 2 medium screw-ups.

2x2: see first round of 3x3.


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## 40yearstosolve (Jul 1, 2018)

Anyone got any tips for the last slot in F2L?

I seem to either stare blindly, keep trying a multitude of the three cases or mess he while solve up.

I am finding that on the last slot none of the rules seem to apply, because I’ll end up messing up completed slots.

Am I losing the plot?


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## Mike Hughey (Jul 1, 2018)

The last slot is harder. You often have to do things differently so that the slot is in a different place relative to the pieces going in so that it will work - use that slot itself as the slot you "mess up" while putting in the pair.

Obviously if one or both of the pair are already in the slot, but it's not solved, you have to take them out as the first step to fixing them.

Even for intuitive solving, it can be helpful to look at an algorithms page to find good algorithms for solving cases that give you trouble. Watch how that algorithm works and try to understand it - it will not only help you solve that case, but often give you ideas for how to solve other cases.


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## 40yearstosolve (Jul 1, 2018)

Great thanks Mike, just a bit of reassurance, I need it by the bucket load - I’ve documented a lot my frustration with F2L. All I’ll say is that my morphine medication is coming in handy :-D


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## JanW (Jul 1, 2018)

40yearstosolve said:


> Anyone got any tips for the last slot in F2L?
> 
> I seem to either stare blindly, keep trying a multitude of the three cases or mess he while solve up.
> 
> ...


When it comes to the last slot, my advice from yesterday very much applies. Don't bring the corner piece to the slot you are about to solve into, like the guy says in the video. If you do, there's no way you can rearrange pieces in the U layer without disturbing a solved slot. If you are solving into FR, put corner into BR and you can hide it with a R move. Or, if the edge is attached to your corner so that it would get hidden with the same move, rotate cube 90 degrees counterclockwise so that your slot is in BR, then put corner in FR and hide it with a R' move.


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## Old Tom (Jul 1, 2018)

40yearstosolve said:


> Anyone got any tips for the last slot in F2L?
> 
> I seem to either stare blindly, keep trying a multitude of the three cases or mess he while solve up.
> 
> ...



I will mention again what I think of as sliding a completed block along the bottom, then sliding it back after a U turn. This is how I do intuitive sequences without permanently ruining any of the three completed slots.

Hard to explain without a video or a cube diagram. But, let's try: Suppose the only remaining slot shares the R and F faces. Now, visualize the F face. You will notice that there is an easily seen completed "block" at the F and L corner at the bottom.

My point is that you can make an F' turn, and this block sort of slides (actually rotates, and actually, just part of the block) over to the RF corner. BUT, it is still on the bottom. SO, you are free to make any desired U turn. THEN, slide (rotate) it back with the opposite F turn.

When you start the sequence, you make a U move to either put a U corner piece you want to drop directly on top of that LF block, or a U edge piece you want to drop in the upper middle of the F face. Now, make that F' (or whatever) sliding turn.

Then make a U move so that when you slide back, you have created one of the two Simple Cases. Viola!

It gets really easy to see, believe me: U-move, Slide, U-move, Slide Back. Four moves and you are at a Simple Case. Four moves at most, sometime only three.

Doesn't have to be the LF block or the F face, of course. Actually, the nice thing is that any of the three completed blocks can be chosen. This slows you down at first, but should not be for long. It helps to realize you will NOT be dropping your target piece into the target slot, rather, down into where the block was before you slid it.

(Different and longer of course when your target piece(s) are not already up on U. So, bring them up and take it from there. Or, do it another way.)

Hope you can understand all that! And good luck.


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## pglewis (Jul 1, 2018)

40yearstosolve said:


> Anyone got any tips for the last slot in F2L?
> 
> I seem to either stare blindly, keep trying a multitude of the three cases or mess he while solve up.
> 
> ...



Cube simulators are awesome, here are commented examples of the three cases. You can step through manually with the right arrow. You can set these cases up yourself by executing the moves in reverse (though, you literally have to reverse the moves, eg R for R'). I'll use the front right slot for the examples here, but front left is the same thing, just mirrored. If the pieces are not mis-connected then I still suggest looking at the top of the edge and putting that color in front. In these examples that'll be green for all three cases.

White on top
Same color on top
Different colors on top (requires corner and edge are in position first)

Note that all three cases start with an R move. The front right slot is the free one and an R move will only disturb that slot. You can split misjoined pairs with the same concept, hiding either the edge or corner via an R move, followed by U face turn or turns to move the other piece away, then restore with R'. That will not always work depending on the orientation of the pieces, the other way to split pieces would be with an F' move... but a rotation to put orange (for these examples) in front temporarily is usually better (that'll move your open slot to the left side and you'd use L' as the "hide move" instead of R).


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## h2f (Jul 1, 2018)

chtiger said:


> 11:14 4BLD which was lucky enough to get 1st place



Congrats!


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## SpartanSailor (Jul 1, 2018)

I ddin’t get to do the MBLD today, but that’s okay. Someone did 23/29 and ran out of time at an hour. Most were MUCH less than. 

Question: How does one find the scrambles used in a competition? I am interested to see the scrambles used for my 3BLD attempts.


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## h2f (Jul 1, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> Question: How does one find the scrambles used in a competition? I am interested to see the scrambles used for my 3BLD attempts.



They are in wcadb.net when results are published on wca page.


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## SpartanSailor (Jul 1, 2018)

h2f said:


> They are in wcadb.net when results are published on wca page.


Great. Thanks! I’ll have to check this week. There are still event from today ongoing.


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## 40yearstosolve (Jul 1, 2018)

JanW said:


> When it comes to the last slot, my advice from yesterday very much applies. Don't bring the corner piece to the slot you are about to solve into, like the guy says in the video. If you do, there's no way you can rearrange pieces in the U layer without disturbing a solved slot. If you are solving into FR, put corner into BR and you can hide it with a R move. Or, if the edge is attached to your corner so that it would get hidden with the same move, rotate cube 90 degrees counterclockwise so that your slot is in BR, then put corner in FR and hide it with a R' move.



I think this is what I do.

So I use the empty slot for the hide, I mean realistically that’s all you can do unless your brain can do some wild moves to fix things.

So I think what I like is that essentially my instinct - or what I picked up on the video - is correct in that: the rules apply until you hit a slot that is used, in which case ‘change the problem’ : use the remaining empty slot and force another scenario that will work. And another option is to learn an algo for the last remaining scenarios.

If I’ve understood correct I am happy that I am not doing something wrong that will cause me problems later on.

Thanks Jan.


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## 40yearstosolve (Jul 1, 2018)

Old Tom said:


> I will mention again what I think of as sliding a completed block along the bottom, then sliding it back after a U turn. This is how I do intuitive sequences without permanently ruining any of the three completed slots.
> 
> Hard to explain without a video or a cube diagram. But, let's try: Suppose the only remaining slot shares the R and F faces. Now, visualize the F face. You will notice that there is an easily seen completed "block" at the F and L corner at the bottom.
> 
> ...



Ha thanks Tom it’s going to take quite a few re-reads but I will recreate the scenario and follow it through step-by-step thanks so much for that.

I still have a worry that my recognition of the correct edge piece is vvvery slow. Starting to seriously wonder if I have some kind of dyslexia - I have sometimes stared at the cube for a minute looking for the correct piece!


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## JanW (Jul 2, 2018)

40yearstosolve said:


> I still have a worry that my recognition of the correct edge piece is vvvery slow. Starting to seriously wonder if I have some kind of dyslexia - I have sometimes stared at the cube for a minute looking for the correct piece!


Are you timing yourself? Sounds like you lock up while stressing over times. I'd suggest forgetting about the timer for a long time. If you do focused F2L practice, you don't need a timer to know that your times are getting faster.

Just look at the corner, say out loud the two colors on the corner piece that are not white (assuming you do white cross), then systematically look around the cube for the edge piece with those two colors. Can't take more than a couple of seconds if you are relaxed and focused. There are only 8 spots to check, as your cross should solved be on the bottom. If you see a yellow face on an edge piece, you can immediately forget about that one. If you see any of the two colors that are not on your corner piece, you can forget about that one. Also, there are only 4 edge pieces with each color. One should be in the cross, so there are only three left. If you are looking for example for blue/red edge piece and you can see blue/yellow and blue/orange, then if you see a blue color on any piece in one of the back slots, you know it is that one. No need to even look at the other side.


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## Old Tom (Jul 2, 2018)

40yearstosolve said:


> Ha thanks Tom it’s going to take quite a few re-reads but I will recreate the scenario and follow it through step-by-step thanks so much for that.
> 
> I still have a worry that my recognition of the correct edge piece is vvvery slow. Starting to seriously wonder if I have some kind of dyslexia - I have sometimes stared at the cube for a minute looking for the correct piece!



Yeah. Hard to understand when it's all text. Really wish we could sit across a table and I could show you. Not likely. Polish on!


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## openseas (Jul 2, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> 3x3 was an absolute disaster. But 3BLD went well... 4:11 official solve.





chtiger said:


> A mixed bag of results at comp. Had 5 PBs, which was more than I hoped for, but didn't hit any of my specific targets. Highlights were an 11:14 4BLD which was lucky enough to get 1st place, and a 7.13 clock single.



Congrats to both of you @SpartanSailor @chtiger ! Awesome results & podium!


My comp did not go well from my person result point of view, but I'm glad we're able to complete a relative huge competition (115 competitors, 13 hrs in schedule), everything was on-time, no incident, many many new cubers. I woke up kinda late, hurried up to the venue, after that, just non time to think but run the competition here and there. What was worse, didn't have coffee until evening which made my brain almost dead. While I was doing 4 & 5 BLD, there were a couple seating right infront of me, kept talking (quietly but big enough for me to hear all the conversation) - I'm gonna use that & lack of caffeine as my excuse for 7 DNF day :-(


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## Old Tom (Jul 2, 2018)

Just so you all know: I gave a brief reply to @40yearstosolve, but it showed up as a much longer reply, signed "Jan". Most of the comments were not mine.


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## JanW (Jul 2, 2018)

Old Tom said:


> Just so you all know: I gave a brief reply to @40yearstosolve, but it showed up as a much longer reply, signed "Jan". Most of the comments were not mine.


Your post is right after mine. 

Btw. the technique you described is actually exactly what you'd normally do, except that you use the F face instead of R or L. So instead of doing something like R' U2 R, you do F' U2 F. Personally I don't use much F turns during F2L. I rather rotate the cube, or do a wide Dw move to set it up to be a RU case. For example, if you want to do a F' U2 F using your technique, you could just rotate the cube 90 degrees counterclockwise and do it as R' U2 R, which usually is much faster. Possibly still faster, depending on what you want to achieve, is to do the wide Dw move, meaning hold the upper layer and flick both bottom and mid layer clockwise, then you can hide the same corner with a R' move.


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## 40yearstosolve (Jul 2, 2018)

JanW said:


> Are you timing yourself? Sounds like you lock up while stressing over times. I'd suggest forgetting about the timer for a long time. If you do focused F2L practice, you don't need a timer to know that your times are getting faster.
> 
> Just look at the corner, say out loud the two colors on the corner piece that are not white (assuming you do white cross), then systematically look around the cube for the edge piece with those two colors. Can't take more than a couple of seconds if you are relaxed and focused. There are only 8 spots to check, as your cross should solved be on the bottom. If you see a yellow face on an edge piece, you can immediately forget about that one. If you see any of the two colors that are not on your corner piece, you can forget about that one. Also, there are only 4 edge pieces with each color. One should be in the cross, so there are only three left. If you are looking for example for blue/red edge piece and you can see blue/yellow and blue/orange, then if you see a blue color on any piece in one of the back slots, you know it is that one. No need to even look at the other side.



Admittedly yes I am timing myself. And I think you are right that it’s making me rush. A new week, a new approach using logic, time and patience. Thanks as always Jan.


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## AbsoRuud (Jul 2, 2018)

Thanks for the invite Mike. I just beat my PB on the single 3x3x3 a few times this weekend and I also picked up the 2x2x2 yesterday. Gonna work on these two before Christmas hits and I'm hoping to get some more cube like things.


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## Old Tom (Jul 2, 2018)

JanW said:


> Your post is right after mine.
> 
> Btw. the technique you described is actually exactly what you'd normally do, except that you use the F face instead of R or L. So instead of doing something like R' U2 R, you do F' U2 F. Personally I don't use much F turns during F2L. I rather rotate the cube, or do a wide Dw move to set it up to be a RU case. For example, if you want to do a F' U2 F using your technique, you could just rotate the cube 90 degrees counterclockwise and do it as R' U2 R, which usually is much faster. Possibly still faster, depending on what you want to achieve, is to do the wide Dw move, meaning hold the upper layer and flick both bottom and mid layer clockwise, then you can hide the same corner with a R' move.



Thanks Jan. Yes, I do use the F face a lot, a habit I developed all the way back since 1981. Until this year I was never thinking much about speed, just looking for a minimum number of short and easy to understand algorithms, and the F face is the one I'm staring directly at! Then this year I stumbled on this site and all you guys, took up F2L, started thinking about speed, etc.

I understand your description of the cube rotation to change FUs to RUs, though, being lefty, I'd go the other way to generate LUs.. The Dw move is also clear, though I might have trouble remembering what I'm doing.

Fingertricks are tricky for creaky hands and cranky heads, but it's fun trying.


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## newtonbase (Jul 2, 2018)

Welcome @AbsoRuud


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## JanW (Jul 2, 2018)

Old Tom said:


> Thanks Jan. Yes, I do use the F face a lot, a habit I developed all the way back since 1981. Until this year I was never thinking much about speed, just looking for a minimum number of short and easy to understand algorithms, and the F face is the one I'm staring directly at! Then this year I stumbled on this site and all you guys, took up F2L, started thinking about speed, etc.
> 
> I understand your description of the cube rotation to change FUs to RUs, though, being lefty, I'd go the other way to generate LUs.. The Dw move is also clear, though I might have trouble remembering what I'm doing.
> 
> Fingertricks are tricky for creaky hands and cranky heads, but it's fun trying.


Yeah, no need to worry about speed and finger tricks and fancy moves like wide moves. I would still recommend rotating the cube so that you mainly use RUL during F2L. It's faster and should make it easier.

Speaking of F2L, does anyone here actively use keyholes? I find I might use them a lot in untimed solves, when I go quite slowly, but never ever in timed solves. Would it be worth getting into the habit of using more?


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## One Wheel (Jul 2, 2018)

JanW said:


> Speaking of F2L, does anyone here actively use keyholes? I find I might use them a lot in untimed solves, when I go quite slowly, but never ever in timed solves. Would it be worth getting into the habit of using more?



I use them when I run into an easy cross that I can plan misaligned, insert an edge, and then fix the cross to get an x-cross. Otherwise standard f2l is more efficient, in my observation.


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## h2f (Jul 2, 2018)

JanW said:


> Speaking of F2L, does anyone here actively use keyholes?



I used it in my 30 FMC in Warsaw to insert an edge an prepair next f2l pair.


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## xyzzy (Jul 2, 2018)

JanW said:


> Speaking of F2L, does anyone here actively use keyholes? I find I might use them a lot in untimed solves, when I go quite slowly, but never ever in timed solves. Would it be worth getting into the habit of using more?





h2f said:


> I used it in my 30 FMC in Warsaw to insert an edge an prepair next f2l pair.


Keyhole is pretty useful in FMC when you get to use it—from one point of view, it's the same as using D premoves; from another point of view, it's the same as doing D moves on the inverse scramble; from yet another point of view, it's the same as inserting a corner commutator that cancels 6 moves (e.g. [D, R U R'] with everything other than the D and D' cancelling).

For normal speedsolving, however, keyhole is one of those "nice to know but almost useless" tricks (like most F2L tricks, really). Like One Wheel already said, deliberately forcing cases where you can use keyhole is less efficient than just solving F2L normally. A keyhole insert takes 5 moves, while most F2L cases can be done in 7-8 moves; forcing keyhole means you spend 3 moves to insert a corner or an edge, so that bumps up the move count of forced keyhole to 5+3=8 moves.


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## 40yearstosolve (Jul 2, 2018)

40yearstosolve said:


> Admittedly yes I am timing myself. And I think you are right that it’s making me rush. A new week, a new approach using logic, time and patience. Thanks as always Jan.



Well @JanW thank you again, the reading out loud idea is a boon! And not timing. But I did tim a few tests just to see where I am at. But reading it out ensures I don’t forget what I am looking for! Onwards and upwards 

Anger level 3/10


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## pglewis (Jul 2, 2018)

JanW said:


> Speaking of F2L, does anyone here actively use keyholes? I find I might use them a lot in untimed solves, when I go quite slowly, but never ever in timed solves. Would it be worth getting into the habit of using more?



I use two special cases with D face moves that I think are keyhole-inspired: 

Corner solved, edge in place flipped, at least one other unsolved slot: move an unsolved bottom corner to the slot, do the common edge flip from 4x4, restore the corner. 

This misjoined case when you want to preserve EO


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## Logiqx (Jul 2, 2018)

pglewis said:


> I use two special cases with D face moves that I think are keyhole-inspired:
> 
> Corner solved, edge in place flipped, at least one other unsolved slot: move an unsolved bottom corner to the slot, do the common edge flip from 4x4, restore the corner.
> 
> This misjoined case when you want to preserve EO



For the second case, I'd probably just do the 2-gen alg since it is so fast... R U R' U2 R U' R' U R U' R'

You might like this when you see it... target slot is FR with edge already in place but the corner is in FL.

D R U R' D' R U' R'


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## pglewis (Jul 2, 2018)

Logiqx said:


> For the second case, I'd probably just do the 2-gen alg since it is so fast... R U R' U2 R U' R' U R U' R'



That's still my go-to for a back slot. I haven't practiced the RUD solution there and not sure if it flows as well for back slots but it's currently a toss-up for me, for FR at least; both are reasonably quick for me with practice. 



Logiqx said:


> You might like this when you see it... target slot is FR with edge already in place but the corner is in FL.
> 
> D R U R' D' R U' R'



That's a clever but easy one! The biggest problem for me is spotting the situation before I disturb the other slot. Kind of the same problem for the corner solved / edge flipped case, Murphy's Law and bad habits lead me to only realizing it when it's the final slot.


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## mark49152 (Jul 2, 2018)

Logiqx said:


> For the second case, I'd probably just do the 2-gen alg since it is so fast... R U R' U2 R U' R' U R U' R'


That's one where I like to use a sledgehammer. (U) R' F R F' and insert wherever desired.


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## pglewis (Jul 2, 2018)

mark49152 said:


> That's one where I like to use a sledgehammer. (U) R' F R F' and insert wherever desired.



And _that's_ my go-to when I want to flip a couple edges.


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## pglewis (Jul 2, 2018)

And since we're on the topic of F2L tricks, I came up with this one to deal with solved corner in BR, edge in U face. It's functionally equivalent to the sledge/R U' R' solution in the FR: Lw U' R' U Lw' U' R

Avoids B face turns and rotations only downside is it might be a little lookahead-unfriendly, though the majority of the times I find myself using it it's on the last pair.


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## Logiqx (Jul 2, 2018)

mark49152 said:


> That's one where I like to use a sledgehammer. (U) R' F R F' and insert wherever desired.



I really should use your approach when I want to flip edges. I currently use my RU alg but adapt the ending to use a sledgehammer for insertion.



pglewis said:


> And since we're on the topic of F2L tricks, I came up with this one to deal with solved corner in BR, edge in U face. It's functionally equivalent to the sledge/R U' R' solution in the FR: Lw U' R' U Lw' U' R



Don't forget R U R U R U' R' U' R' which also preserves OLL. Once in a while, I'll think that BR is pre-solved when in reality the edge is from the LL, looking good when viewed from the right. The resultant OLL case can also look genuine from certain angles but after solving OLL, it's a surprise to see an F2L piece in the LL. The quick fix is to use the RU alg to insert the F2L edge, followed by PLL.


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## Logiqx (Jul 2, 2018)

Here's a summary of my experiences at the Peterborough Open 2018. Apologies for it being so long...

I was sorry to miss the two Mark's - @mark49152 and @newtonbase but it was good to see @Shaky Hands. You can always rely on Andy to be in attendance! I only attended on Sunday so I was signed up for 3x3x3, OH, 2x2x2 and Megaminx. After somewhat on-off practice in the run up to the weekend, I was still feeling like any of my PBs were up for grabs. My priorities were OH average, 3x3x3 average (despite not practicing the event properly), 2x2x2 single/average followed by making the cut for a Megaminx average (untouched for a fortnight).

The first round of 3x3x3 was better than I did last month but a counting sup-20 let the average down. The 3rd solve was 21s due to a mis-planned cross and the last solve was 20s due to lack of focus and being complacent about a sub-16 average being on the cards... 16.61, 15.14, 21.76, 14.00, 20.12 = 17.27 average

Next up was my main event (OH) although I'd mis-remembered the schedule and was warming up for 2x2x2 until maybe 10 minutes before it started! My first solve was being judged by @Shaky Hands and was going nicely, reaching an R-Perm at dead on 20 seconds which would usually mean a high-22 or low-23 second solve. I managed to lockup half way through the R-Perm and that threw my muscle memory, butchering the F2L so I opted to DNF the solve. Slightly on edge after that mistake I played it safe for the next two solves to maintain the chance of an average, both were 27 seconds. I was relaxed by the fourth solve but for some inexplicable reason, I did a random turn as I put down the cube and had to correct it before stopping the timer which turned a 25 into another 27. The last solve was really nice (reaching LL at 16s) but it ended with an unfavourable OLL, followed by an F-Perm which usually takes me about 5 seconds. It was my fastest solve at 26s but it could very easily have been low 20 with more typical LL cases. So the average was 27.22 (finally, sub-30) but could very easily have been sub-25 without the stuff I mentioned. DNF, 27.45, 27.09, 27.13, 26.11 = 27.22 average (PB)

Luck plays a significant role in 2x2x2 and TBH my scrambles weren't too bad. There was one scramble where I couldn't plan a face so that was always going to be the discard. Unfortunately, I'd messed up the previous solve (sup-6) so I failed to get a sub-5 average which represents my global times. The last solve was a PB single (drawing with @mark49152 as it happens) but I should really have been able to one-look the solve and solve it in well under 3 seconds - (R U R') F (R U R' U') (R U R' U') F' + AUF. 4.53, 6.83, 8.37, 5.33, 4.02 = 5.56 average (ok for comp but I'd be pissed if I churned out a similar Ao100 at home).

Second round of 3x3x3 started with a +2 because I mis-recognised the colours, I think due to the light (16.68 + 2 = 18.68). Second solve was just bad (19.21) but solve 3 was ok at 15.96. Solve 4 was also decent (mid-high 15 perhaps) but my fingertips failed to stop the timer and after realising it was still running, I actually stopped it at 16.92. The last solve was just bad at 18s. Without the counting +2 and timer incident, it'd have been a sub-17 average despite the counting 18. I can take heart at 6/10 decent 3x3x3 solves (between 14.00 and 16.61) but I need to a avoid silly mistake like plus 2's and failure to stop the timer. Two bad solves per average just needs to be reduced to one bad solve in future!

I hadn't practiced Megaminx in the leadup to Peterborough but I knew there was a chance of making the 2:30 cut for an average. My first solve was slow and steady but it produced a 2:16.13 which I was happy with as my debut solve. I blew the second solve hunting for pieces (2:49.09) and after that it all got a bit unusual. My judge started solving during the third solve which I found increasingly annoying and I eventually called the delegate to ask for an extra which I did get given. The extra was a 2:37.19 because TBH I still wasn't entirely recomposed and the solve was pretty stop-start. The third attempt (fourth solve) was going swimmingly until I got to the last layer and the judge said he didn't think the timer was switched on (screen blank). After another discussion with the delegate, I was given another extra! That solve didn't feel nearly as good and was 2:40.76. Come the final attempt (solve 7) there was still more fun in store. Whilst removing the cube cover the judge knocked my GoPro from it's pearch. I glanced at it for a moment and said that I'm not allowed to touch it then I looked back at my mega and started my solve. The judge called 8 seconds by which time, I'd solved a couple of edges for my white star and I then realised that I hadn't started the timer. lol... DNF.

I was fully expecting to do 2 megaminx solves so having done 7 solve in what was effectively the slowest possible time... 2:42.35 average, I felt pretty guilty and judged every group of 7x7x7 to re-balance the cubing karma. 

Summary... I had some cool conversations with parents and competitors and I enjoyed my solves a lot more than I did a month ago. I'm starting to get used to competition again but it's looking like it will be late October when I'll next compete. I've finally registered a one-handed average which sub-30 average (27.22) rather than screwing up monumentally, leaving me with the confidence that I can do a lot better in future. Six decent 3x3 solves (ignoring the +2 and failure to stop the timer) is a good platform to build on for a sub-16 or sub-15 average. For 2x2, I just need a few more attempts with regular scrambles to get close to my sub-5 global average. A modest improvement in my 2x2x2 single (4.02) leaves plenty of room for a future PB single.

Hope to see more of you at the next event - @40yearstosolve, @bubbagrub, @mark49152, @newtonbase and @Selkie.


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## pglewis (Jul 2, 2018)

Logiqx said:


> Don't forget R U R U R U' R' U' R' which also preserves OLL.



Thank you for this! I hadn't settled on an alg that preserves EO from the back slot and just used the wide turn one since it's practiced, dot OLLs be damned. 

Not friendly for the back slots but great for preserving EO from the front, picked up from @JanW a while back and I still love it (bonus points that the edge setup is the same as the sledge-based solution): F' - sexy - R' F R.


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## JanW (Jul 2, 2018)

Logiqx said:


> Don't forget R U R U R U' R' U' R' which also preserves OLL.


Or if edge is on the left, you can do the inverse to save a U2 setup. Inverse is exactly the same, except the middle R becomes R'.


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## Logiqx (Jul 2, 2018)

FYI. I've refreshed the static over-40's rankings page on GitHub - https://github.com/Logiqx/wca-ipy

Some of you may not know of the dynamic page as well (please remind me, who set this up originally?) - https://goo.gl/nL6ma2

The downside of the dynamic view is that it also includes solves from when people were under 40.


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## Old Tom (Jul 2, 2018)

Logiqx said:


> FYI. I've refreshed the static over-40's rankings page on GitHub - https://github.com/Logiqx/wca-ipy
> 
> Some of you may not know of the dynamic page as well (please remind me, who set this up originally?) - https://goo.gl/nL6ma2
> 
> The downside of the dynamic view is that it also includes solves from when people were under 40.



Great! You can update that in three weeks, when a plus-80 fellow (me, as of last week) posts possibly the slowest 3x3x3 time on the list. Will be at the Fredericksburg Open.


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## newtonbase (Jul 2, 2018)

Well done @Logiqx Glad you finally got a decent round of OH. 



Logiqx said:


> Hope to see more of you at the next event - @40yearstosolve, @bubbagrub, @mark49152, @newtonbase and @Selkie.


I have just found out that that a 3 generation family break has been proposed for the last weekend of October It's not definite yet but I think it's probably going to happen so my next comp is likely to be WSM.


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## SpartanSailor (Jul 3, 2018)

I didn’t get to compete in MBLD over the weekend after all. BUT this morning I gave 4 cubes a shot on the forum weekly comp. “submitted” four cubes and tried to keep myself limited to 40 minutes. I took 21:23 but got 2/4. I really only focused on the two cubes that gave me good memos. My review really only focused on those two—then I executed them as the first 2. I left all the “risk” for memo to the final two cubes... and those were a mess. But! I did get an “official” result of 0 points. 

Using the advice here for an official comp to submit 4 and effectively choose the best two was my real method. I have to say, I’m a little shocked I got the two... or rather, I surprised myself.


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## newtonbase (Jul 3, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> I didn’t get to compete in MBLD over the weekend after all. BUT this morning I gave 4 cubes a shot on the forum weekly comp. “submitted” four cubes and tried to keep myself limited to 40 minutes. I took 21:23 but got 2/4. I really only focused on the two cubes that gave me good memos. My review really only focused on those two—then I executed them as the first 2. I left all the “risk” for memo to the final two cubes... and those were a mess. But! I did get an “official” result of 0 points.
> 
> Using the advice here for an official comp to submit 4 and effectively choose the best two was my real method. I have to say, I’m a little shocked I got the two... or rather, I surprised myself.


Well done.


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## SpartanSailor (Jul 3, 2018)

newtonbase said:


> Well done.


I’m hooked now. This only confirms it. Lol. I will be doing MBLD at the next official opportunity.


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## newtonbase (Jul 3, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> I’m hooked now. This only confirms it. Lol. I will be doing MBLD at the next official opportunity.


Excellent idea. Are you using rooms yet?


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## SpartanSailor (Jul 3, 2018)

No. Today I just did two phrases (each cube—actually 4 phrases with corner/edge for each cube). 

I’ll have to eventually, but for 2-3 cubes, I was able to keep my normal straight letters or phrases straight.


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## pglewis (Jul 3, 2018)

@SpartanSailor: I'm guessing you could probably just go straight for 2/2 at this point. 6 mins per cube should be enough for a fairly strong memo at your pace and that leaves 2 mins per cube for review and 2 mins per cube for execution.


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## SpartanSailor (Jul 3, 2018)

pglewis said:


> @SpartanSailor: I'm guessing you could probably just go straight for 2/2 at this point. 6 mins per cube should be enough for a fairly strong memo at your pace and that leaves 2 mins per cube for review and 2 mins per cube for execution.


I was thinking that too. I may submit 3 and go for 2/3 and get at least 1 pt. I certainly wasn’t in a hurry and did memo all four sets of corners to get a sense of which ones were “easier”. That was a few minutes effectively down the drain. 

Whenever the next comp is that has MBLD, I’ll compete.


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## AbsoRuud (Jul 3, 2018)

Hi all. Spent some time on the 2x2x2 today. Halved my PB single. I popped it though. I need a Moyu Weipo or something instead of my 2$ 2x2x2. But progress is progress! 

Do you need to be an official WCA competitor to show up on the abovementioned lists?


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## openseas (Jul 3, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> I was thinking that too. I may submit 3 and go for 2/3 and get at least 1 pt. I certainly wasn’t in a hurry and did memo all four sets of corners to get a sense of which ones were “easier”. That was a few minutes effectively down the drain.
> 
> Whenever the next comp is that has MBLD, I’ll compete.



Great progress! Going for 2/3 or 3/3 will be a good idea.
Do you know what will come next? 2.5 MBLD is almost equivalent to 4BLD.... so.....


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## Logiqx (Jul 4, 2018)

Some of you may remember that quite some time back I said I wanted to try to solve the Square-1 *without watching a tutorial or reading a guide*.

Reason: I don't want to learn a speed solving method until I've figured out a basic method by myself. I've previously figured out Clock, Pyra, Skewb and Mega but I always felt that Square-1 would be a lot harder. Well, I attempted it today and it's been driving me insane!

My approach is as follows - 1) cube shape (combination of intuition / trial and error). 2) corners into respective layers (easy). 3) edges into respective layers (creating an alg drove me absolutely potty whilst I was watching The Hateful Eight this evening). 4) corner permutation (creating algs was relatively easy). 5) edge permutation (yet to tackle), 6) E-layer (trivial). Parity is the last thing that I'll tackle so until then, I'll just be re-scrambling!

The photos show my final attempt tonight in which edge permutation just happened to be solved after corner permutation. I'll keep beating my head against the wall tomorrow and hopeful discover something that behaves like a U-Perm. I'm feeling like I made decent progress today and now I know what parity means on Square-1!

Has anyone else attempted this infuriating puzzle without a tutorial?


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## openseas (Jul 4, 2018)

Logiqx said:


> Some of you may remember that quite some time back I said I wanted to try to solve the Square-1 *without watching a tutorial or reading a guide*.
> 
> Reason: I don't want to learn a speed solving method until I've figured out a basic method by myself. I've previously figured out Clock, Pyra, Skewb and Mega but I always felt that Square-1 would be a lot harder. Well, I attempted it today and it's been driving me insane!
> 
> ...



Haha, I did it, solved once but that was it. Still wondering how I did it, though. Never attempted again....


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## Mike Hughey (Jul 4, 2018)

I figured it out myself. I used a similar approach to yours. I stuck with it until I had a reliable system that could always solve it (no matter how bad), then learned a real method after that.

I bought a megaminx and a square-1 at the same time and attempted to solve both for our weekly competition here that I now help run. In the weekly competition statistics you can find my first megaminx solve - it's some ridiculous number of hours long. That's actually how long it took me to get it the first time.

For square-1 I tried the same thing, but unfortunately it took more tham a week, so I couldn't submit an official result. By rescrambling it after parity I got through it in about 2 weeks.

I eventually even worked out a parity fix by trial and error. As I recall my parity fix was around 80 moves long.

It was fun, and I'm really glad I did it that way. Good luck to you - it's so gratifyiing when you finally beat it!


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## SpartanSailor (Jul 4, 2018)

openseas said:


> 2.5 MBLD is almost equivalent to 4BLD.... so.....


Yes... I’ve been told that before. LOL


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## SpartanSailor (Jul 4, 2018)

Logiqx said:


> Some of you may remember that quite some time back I said I wanted to try to solve the Square-1 *without watching a tutorial or reading a guide*.
> 
> Reason: I don't want to learn a speed solving method until I've figured out a basic method by myself. I've previously figured out Clock, Pyra, Skewb and Mega but I always felt that Square-1 would be a lot harder. Well, I attempted it today and it's been driving me insane!
> 
> ...


I tried and sort of figured it out too... but measured my times in days, rather than minutes or even hours. The last time I touched it, I set it down mid-solve... and there it remains. In the cube-shape but nothing else really solved. I keep telling myself that I’ll figure it out again to get it to a solved state—or be willing to endeavour endless hours to get lucky and solve it.


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## mark49152 (Jul 4, 2018)

Square-1... Yes I have one in a drawer somewhere. It's been scrambled since about 2013.


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## 40yearstosolve (Jul 4, 2018)

Logiqx said:


> Some of you may remember that quite some time back I said I wanted to try to solve the Square-1 *without watching a tutorial or reading a guide*.
> 
> Reason: I don't want to learn a speed solving method until I've figured out a basic method by myself. I've previously figured out Clock, Pyra, Skewb and Mega but I always felt that Square-1 would be a lot harder. Well, I attempted it today and it's been driving me insane!
> 
> ...



Well done and good luck @Logiqx i am astounded you are doing this. It makes me realise how I ungenius-like I really am. I have a panic attack just looking at that thing


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## h2f (Jul 4, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> No. Today I just did two phrases (each cube—actually 4 phrases with corner/edge for each cube).
> 
> I’ll have to eventually, but for 2-3 cubes, I was able to keep my normal straight letters or phrases straight.



Doing mbld helps in 3bld.


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## newtonbase (Jul 4, 2018)

My Square-1 has been solved once. Cube shape shortly after getting in then a couple of years later, after the hatred had abated, I finished it. All from guides. Not happening again.


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## SpartanSailor (Jul 4, 2018)

h2f said:


> Doing mbld helps in 3bld.


Just another reason to do MBLD, then, IMO.


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## SpartanSailor (Jul 4, 2018)

Question: What 7x7 hardware do those of you that do 7x7 use? 

I’ve realised—especially with the new Shadow 6x6–that hardware makes a real difference for me. I recently got the Shadow 6x6 and it has make the world of difference when it comes to working bigger cubes. Similar experience when I updated my 5x5. I am full proponent of magnets in bigger cubes too. My problem has always been the middle layers slide around and make turning a real challenge—always felt like I was “squaring” off my cube before making new turns. With magnets, however, I have come to enjoy the larger cubes. Not enough to get full into it for speed, but enough to solve them for enjoyment.

I have been looking for the Hays 7x7, but can’t find it anywhere or it’s listed under a different name and I just don’t know. I don’t mind spending a decent amount to get a nice magnetic 7x7, but I’m only doing it once, so want to be sure I get a good cube and don’t waste my money.


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## AbsoRuud (Jul 4, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> Question: What 7x7 hardware do those of you that do 7x7 use?
> 
> I’ve realised—especially with the new Shadow 6x6–that hardware makes a real difference for me. I recently got the Shadow 6x6 and it has make the world of difference when it comes to working bigger cubes. Similar experience when I updated my 5x5. I am full proponent of magnets in bigger cubes too. My problem has always been the middle layers slide around and make turning a real challenge—always felt like I was “squaring” off my cube before making new turns. With magnets, however, I have come to enjoy the larger cubes. Not enough to get full into it for speed, but enough to solve them for enjoyment.
> 
> I have been looking for the Hays 7x7, but can’t find it anywhere or it’s listed under a different name and I just don’t know. I don’t mind spending a decent amount to get a nice magnetic 7x7, but I’m only doing it once, so want to be sure I get a good cube and don’t waste my money.



This link might help you.

http://www.rubiksplace.com/buy-a-rubiks-cube/best-7x7-speedcubes/


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## mark49152 (Jul 4, 2018)

AbsoRuud said:


> This link might help you.
> 
> http://www.rubiksplace.com/buy-a-rubiks-cube/best-7x7-speedcubes/


That's almost 2 years out of date. There are newer and arguably better hardware choices available today.


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## 40yearstosolve (Jul 4, 2018)

Hi all,

MY F2L VIDEO!

I thought I’d record myself solving so I may ask for your feedback please.

(actually, talking to the camera really helped).

This isn’t for speed -that will be obvious  but instead I recorded myself to ask you guys to gauge how well I am executing the method with the aim to give myself confidence that I am not picking up bad habits or putting anything in the way of me speeding up.

It’s 8 minutes of me sat in my garden...

Upside down cross (2:00)
F2L (5:00)
Yellow (OLL?) (40s)
Last layer (PLL?) (1:00)

Go easy on me 

I would be ecstatic to be told “just carry on with that method”.

My own notes:
1. Insertion of the cross edges when they’re at the top is probably long-winded.
2. Do I need to be able to solve F2L pairs without rotating the cube.
3. I need to practise, practise, practise.

Thanks for your time (and patience!!).






PS: Feedback from anyone would be great, but I hope @Old Tom enjoys it because you’ve been so good to me typing out moves. So I kept to my promise of making my reply as painless as possible, and put your theory into a video! It required a Heath Robinson style use of a selfie-stick with my iPhone in, the stick wedged into my chair with a trainer (sneaker) to hold it in place! Then positioning myself awkwardly behind the stick!! I just used the iPhone camera app and then uploaded using the iPhone YouTube app).

Enjoy!


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## Old Tom (Jul 4, 2018)

40yearstosolve said:


> Hi all,
> 
> MY F2L VIDEO!
> 
> ...


Will be happy to comment, however (1) I am currently at a cottage on a small island on the Chesapeake Bay. Beautiful place, beautiful company, but terrible WiFi. Too slow to play videos. (2) If there's any audio with the video, will be lost to me, I'm deaf. That won't stop me though, never has. (3) Like you, I'm new at F2L, tjough maybe more comfortable with it than you (because more forgiving of myself). Comments by others might be more helpful. But again, won't stop me.

Not planning to set foot off the island for a couple of days! Will be sure to look at the video then.

(For those familiar with the area, this is little Gwynn's Island, Mathews County, Va., USA.)


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## AbsoRuud (Jul 4, 2018)

mark49152 said:


> That's almost 2 years out of date. There are newer and arguably better hardware choices available today.



I stand corrected!


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## 40yearstosolve (Jul 4, 2018)

Old Tom said:


> Will be happy to comment, however (1) I am currently at a cottage on a small island on the Chesapeake Bay. Beautiful place, beautiful company, but terrible WiFi. Too slow to play videos. (2) If there's any audio with the video, will be lost to me, I'm deaf. That won't stop me though, never has. (3) Like you, I'm new at F2L, tjough maybe more comfortable with it than you (because more forgiving of myself). Comments by others might be more helpful. But again, won't stop me.
> 
> Not planning to set foot off the island for a couple of days! Will be sure to look at the video then.
> 
> (For those familiar with the area, this is little Gwynn's Island, Mathews County, Va., USA.)



Hey Tom, put your phone down and I’ll wait for your comments in a couple of days. I’ll be sure to Google Earth that place, have a fab time


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## One Wheel (Jul 4, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> Question: What 7x7 hardware do those of you that do 7x7 use?
> 
> I’ve realised—especially with the new Shadow 6x6–that hardware makes a real difference for me. I recently got the Shadow 6x6 and it has make the world of difference when it comes to working bigger cubes. Similar experience when I updated my 5x5. I am full proponent of magnets in bigger cubes too. My problem has always been the middle layers slide around and make turning a real challenge—always felt like I was “squaring” off my cube before making new turns. With magnets, however, I have come to enjoy the larger cubes. Not enough to get full into it for speed, but enough to solve them for enjoyment.
> 
> I have been looking for the Hays 7x7, but can’t find it anywhere or it’s listed under a different name and I just don’t know. I don’t mind spending a decent amount to get a nice magnetic 7x7, but I’m only doing it once, so want to be sure I get a good cube and don’t waste my money.



I believe I've heard that the Hays 7 has been delayed, no word on a new release date. I use a Qiyi Wuji that I magnetized, and it's not perfect, but I can tell that the cube won't be my limiting factor until I drop from my current low-7:00 average to at least mid-5:00. I'm sure if I were really dedicated it could serve me well into sub-4:00.


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## JanW (Jul 4, 2018)

40yearstosolve said:


> Hi all,
> 
> MY F2L VIDEO!
> 
> ...


I'd recommend you also post the scramble you are solving, that way it is easier to give suggestions, especially for the cross.

Solving the cross one edge at a time is very slow. Solving them into the slot where they are supposed to end up is even slower. Remember that you can move around the D layer to bring the slot to the piece, instead of always bringing the piece to the slot. For example, when you had red and orange solved, you had both green and blue badly oriented at the bottom. They are supposed to go opposite to each other. At 1:41 in the video, with green cross edge facing towards you, you could have lifted both green and blue to opposite sides with F and B, then do a D move to put bottom layer in correct position relative to blue and green, insert blue and green with R and L, then D' to align all edges correctly with the centers.

Here's how I might have solved that cross:

Yellow top, green front:
B R F L F' D' R2

Breaking it down:
B R - solves green cross edge on orange face and moves orange cross piece out of the F layer
F L - solves blue cross edge opposite to green cross piece
F' - solves red cross edge into correct slot in relation to green and blue
D' - moves green, red and blue into their correct positions
R2 - solves orange cross edge

First F2L pair, you don't need to bring the slot to the piece like that. With orange facing towards you, you can align the pieces correctly in relation to each other immediately with R' U R (like you do later), then do a U2 to move corner to the slot where it is supposed to go and insert into back left with L U L'. Inserting into the back slots should always be preferred, because that helps look ahead. The solved corner is immediately out of the way at the back and you have more unsolved pieces in front of you instead of at the back of the cube.

Second F2L pair, note that you could pair them up immediately with a U move. Then L' U L to move them together out of the L layer, rotate cube 90 degrees clockwise and again insert into back slot with L U2 L'.

3rd F2L pair, 5:30, it is no problem to hide the corner piece when taking out the edge. Any piece you hide will be brought back to the U layer when you fix the cross. R' U' R hides corner, takes out edge, then brings corner back to U layer.

5:54, you have green and orange already paired up, could be inserted immediately with L' U L. Obviously this changes the blue orange case, but that's no problem. It actually sets up another easy 2 gen case, R U2 R' U2 R U' R'. Later, at 6:00, when you have paired up orange and blue, green and orange are in correct position to immediately be solved with L' U' L, without breaking up the blue orange corner. This is basically look what look ahead is about. Once you get used to performing the moves you are doing, you should be looking for the last pair, in this case green/orange, while solving blue/orange. Then you can notice shortcuts like this. But no worries, I know it can take a while to get there. 

Edit: I should add that you have clearly understood the instructions correctly and are doing everything right according to the introduction videos. No problem there.  My comments were mainly about how to take it to the next level.


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## 40yearstosolve (Jul 4, 2018)

JanW said:


> I'd recommend you also post the scramble you are solving, that way it is easier to give suggestions, especially for the cross.
> 
> Solving the cross one edge at a time is very slow. Solving them into the slot where they are supposed to end up is even slower. Remember that you can move around the D layer to bring the slot to the piece, instead of always bringing the piece to the slot. For example, when you had red and orange solved, you had both green and blue badly oriented at the bottom. They are supposed to go opposite to each other. At 1:41 in the video, with green cross edge facing towards you, you could have lifted both green and blue to opposite sides with F and B, then do a D move to put bottom layer in correct position relative to blue and green, insert blue and green with R and L, then D' to align all edges correctly with the centers.
> 
> ...



Ha consider my mind blown 

Thanks Jan so much for that detailed feedback, amazing cheers.

And a realisation that the cube is 3 dimensional :-D (ie: the cross I can move white in orientation to the cube, or move the white in orientation to the edges. And also F2L I can move the U layer towards the edge if it's in a slot to immediately bring them together --I hadn't even considered doing that!!).

Oh, and thank you Jan for the last 'Edit' comment, I needed that at the end hahahaha.

Ok, so I am sat here scanning through my video and reading your comments, let's see if any stick!


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## SpartanSailor (Jul 4, 2018)

One Wheel said:


> I believe I've heard that the Hays 7 has been delayed, no word on a new release date. I use a Qiyi Wuji that I magnetized, and it's not perfect, but I can tell that the cube won't be my limiting factor until I drop from my current low-7:00 average to at least mid-5:00. I'm sure if I were really dedicated it could serve me well into sub-4:00.


Definitely I’m not limited by hardware with my 20min 7x7 solves. But I like the feel of my new Shadow 6x6 and would actually solve my 7x7 more frequently than bi-annually if it wasn’t so unpleasant to turn.... 

My middle layers slip out of alignment all the time and results is very frustrating turns when I go from U turns to R or L turns (90degree shift of turn direction).


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## Logiqx (Jul 4, 2018)

Logiqx said:


> Some of you may remember that quite some time back I said I wanted to try to solve the Square-1 *without watching a tutorial or reading a guide*.



It's been sitting in a draw unsolved since X-Mas 2016 but my Square-1 is finally back to the solved state.

I have to say that overall it was probably more frustrating than fun figuring out my own method but I'm glad that I persevered.

I've done it more than once so I think I can say that I really do have a method!


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## SpartanSailor (Jul 4, 2018)

Logiqx said:


> It's been sitting in a draw unsolved since X-Mas 2016 but my Square-1 is finally back to the solved state.
> 
> I have to say that overall it was probably more frustrating than fun figuring out my own method but I'm glad that I persevered.
> 
> ...


Well done. Meanwhile...mine remains untouched. I did just “look” at it. I can verify that it hasn’t magically solved itself.


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## Old Tom (Jul 4, 2018)

JanW said:


> I'd recommend you also post the scramble you are solving, that way it is easier to give suggestions, especially for the cross.
> 
> Solving the cross one edge at a time is very slow. Solving them into the slot where they are supposed to end up is even slower. Remember that you can move around the D layer to bring the slot to the piece, instead of always bringing the piece to the slot. For example, when you had red and orange solved, you had both green and blue badly oriented at the bottom. They are supposed to go opposite to each other. At 1:41 in the video, with green cross edge facing towards you, you could have lifted both green and blue to opposite sides with F and B, then do a D move to put bottom layer in correct position relative to blue and green, insert blue and green with R and L, then D' to align all edges correctly with the centers.
> 
> ...



Jan, your comments on the video by @40yearstosolve have helped me also, even though I've not seen his video yet. Particularly the concept of solving into a back slot, so as to assist look-ahead. I have never done that or even thought anout it. Now will definitely have to move away from F moves, something you commented on earlier, and not just to make turning easier. I have already started throwing in a Y rotation, and now have some sequences that are all LUs (for this lefty).


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## muchacho (Jul 4, 2018)

Trying to catch Logiqx now that he has been distracted by Square-1... don't stop now 

OH PBs:
Ao12: 23.093 (was 23.322)
Mo100: 24.999 (25.320)
Ao100: 24.885 (25.230)

Also I've learned 3 CMLL OH algs, for a total of 18 (out of 42).


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## pglewis (Jul 4, 2018)

40yearstosolve said:


> Do I need to be able to solve F2L pairs without rotating the cube.



Great advice from Jan, as usual. Most of the active oldies here are faster than I am (and the ones who aren't only because they focus more on blindfold or bigger cubes). I read their critiques with an eye towards learning as well, so my reply is mostly just for moral support . 

F2L: Your basic understanding of F2L is solid and you'll only get faster with it from here. As I've mentioned before, improving F2L is an ongoing mission for most of us using CFOP _still_, even as we we approach sub 20, sub 15, and beyond, and evidenced by some of the more advanced/special case F2L tricks we were sharing with one another yesterday. With practice you will encounter some annoying or slow cases repeatedly and you can pick up new tricks as you identify the ones that are holding you back the most. You'll slowly shift from generalizing three cases to more specific solutions to the various cases that present themselves. The important thing is you've got the basics, you've cleared the biggest hurdle IMO. 

Cube rotations: Ideally, I think the fastest guys suggest limiting cube rotations during CFOP to maybe 3 or 4 (I'm typically _much_ worse than that). If you rotate to look for pieces then definitely break that habit now and get used to tilting and looking around rather than rotating. For some cases, a rotation sets up a more ergonomic insert or as mentioned might set you up for better lookahead for the remaining slots by putting solved slots in the back. It's worth practicing very very slow solves where you deliberately analyze where everything is, what case you have, and then only rotate when you know exactly what you're doing and it's the right thing to do in the moment. I developed some bad habits with chaotic rotations that continued even when I was well under a minute and I can tell you it can be a hard thing to break when it gets that far. (It is worth noting that ZZ solvers are likely chuckling right now as that method can easily lead to no rotations at all). 

Cross: You probably have quite a bit of time to shave off there right now. Comp rules allow up to 15 seconds of inspection time before starting the timer and ideally you want to plan out your full cross solution during that time-- and even the first F2L pair if possible-- and be able to solve the cross in just a few seconds. It's a difficult step to make good tutorials for, there are so many cross cases and the pieces interact in ways that can get very specific. Good first goals would be to memorize your color scheme if you haven't and be able to plan three of the four cross edges during inspection. Knowing the color scheme is vital because you can solve the edges relative to one another, regardless of matching them up with the sides right away, then align them with D/D'/D2 when you're done. Understanding edge orientation helps, at a minimal: which of your cross edges are "good" (oriented) and which are "bad" (misoriented). You can use the moves while solving an oriented edge to simultaneously turn a misoriented edge into an oriented one with a little planning. Last time I did cross drills it showed I'm in the mid 3 second range for solving the cross on average, which is actually probably a little bit slow for my level but I'm lazy about drilling cross since I'm probably only likely to squeeze another second out of it even with a whole lot of work. Don't worry that you're a lot slow than 3 seconds for cross and instead rejoice that it's low hanging fruit.


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## pglewis (Jul 4, 2018)

I've been waiting for a comp with 3x3, 3bld, and mbld ever since I had to bail on the Great Lakes regional, thankfully Michigan 2018 just opened up for registration.


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## Mike Hughey (Jul 4, 2018)

pglewis said:


> I've been waiting for a comp with 3x3, 3bld, and mbld ever since I had to bail on the Great Lakes regional, thankfully Michigan 2018 just opened up for registration.


Nice! I don't know if I'll be available, but I'll try to make it there if I can.


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## pglewis (Jul 4, 2018)

pglewis said:


> You'll slowly shift from generalizing three cases to more specific solutions to the various cases that present themselves.



@40yearstosolve: One special case that's very easy to recognize and turns up frequently (I think I saw it at least once in your filmed solve) is when the edge is in the correct slot and solved, corner on top with white facing up. You should know "The Sexy Move" by now: R U R' U'. That sequence got its name because it can be performed really fast with practice (sexy!) and it turns up in a lot of last layer algs as well as during F2L. The "edge solved in-slot / corner with white facing up" case is quickly solved with triple-sexy. Six successive sexy moves will cycle from solved back to solved, so you also set that case up from a solved cube with triple-sexy. We use it by name a lot to describe algs in shorthand without the full move notation, as in: F-sexy-F'.


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## JanW (Jul 4, 2018)

pglewis said:


> Cross: You probably have quite a bit of time to shave off there right now. Comp rules allow up to 15 seconds of inspection time before starting the timer and ideally you want to plan out your full cross solution during that time-- and even the first F2L pair if possible-- and be able to solve the cross in just a few seconds. It's a difficult step to make good tutorials for, there are so many cross cases and the pieces interact in ways that can get very specific. Good first goals would be to memorize your color scheme if you haven't and be able to plan three of the four cross edges during inspection. Knowing the color scheme is vital because you can solve the edges relative to one another, regardless of matching them up with the sides right away, then align them with D/D'/D2 when you're done. Understanding edge orientation helps, at a minimal: which of your cross edges are "good" (oriented) and which are "bad" (misoriented). You can use the moves while solving an oriented edge to simultaneously turn a misoriented edge into an oriented one with a little planning. Last time I did cross drills it showed I'm in the mid 3 second range for solving the cross on average, which is actually probably a little bit slow for my level but I'm lazy about drilling cross since I'm probably only likely to squeeze another second out of it even with a whole lot of work. Don't worry that you're a lot slow than 3 seconds for cross and instead rejoice that it's low hanging fruit.


This is good advice. Though I'd add that you should not worry about the 15 second inspection time limit yet. When you first start planning full crosses it'll probably take you a minute or several. I know it did for me. I didn't start using timed inspection until I was sub-30. Until then I had taken however much time I needed to plan the cross. And I still had problems doing it in 15 seconds for quite a while.


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## Old Tom (Jul 4, 2018)

JanW said:


> This is good advice. Though I'd add that you should not worry about the 15 second inspection time limit yet. When you first start planning full crosses it'll probably take you a minute or several. I know it did for me. I didn't start using timed inspection until I was sub-30. Until then I had taken however much time I needed to plan the cross. And I still had problems doing it in 15 seconds for quite a while.



All these comments from Jan and @pglewis are terrific for me also. And note to @40yearstosolve: I really do enjoy slow and super-slow solving, thinking about what is happening. I don't memorize algs explicitly, though my fingers are picking many of them up. I never, or almost never, time myself. When I do, just makes me nervous. By contrast, slow is fun and relaxing, but I'm learning also. I have a stack of index cards where I take notes when I have an "Aha!" moment. I do write down the algs in notation then, just so that I have a record for review.

I started taking these notes when I started F2L this April. Reviewing them now, barely three months later, I am amused at how blindingly obvious some of those notes are. No doubt, I will feel the same about this month's notes soon enough. Or, I hope so!

But I saved some very rough and sketchy notes from back in 1981, where I solved the cube using nothing but commutators and conjugates, piece by piece, or at least I think that's what I was doing. I cannot really understand today what I did back then (I soon moved on to more compact methods), but I wonder if it might form the basis of a blind solve?


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## 40yearstosolve (Jul 4, 2018)

pglewis said:


> Great advice from Jan, as usual. Most of the active oldies here are faster than I am (and the ones who aren't only because they focus more on blindfold or bigger cubes). I read their critiques with an eye towards learning as well, so my reply is mostly just for moral support .
> 
> F2L: Your basic understanding of F2L is solid and you'll only get faster with it from here. As I've mentioned before, improving F2L is an ongoing mission for most of us using CFOP _still_, even as we we approach sub 20, sub 15, and beyond, and evidenced by some of the more advanced/special case F2L tricks we were sharing with one another yesterday. With practice you will encounter some annoying or slow cases repeatedly and you can pick up new tricks as you identify the ones that are holding you back the most. You'll slowly shift from generalizing three cases to more specific solutions to the various cases that present themselves. The important thing is you've got the basics, you've cleared the biggest hurdle IMO.
> 
> ...



As always pglewis your critiques are always learning/motivationally focused bravo 

As I end this day leaving my cubes downstairs I think I needed that pick-me-up.

More @Old Tom-style chilling, @JanW-style practicality and @pglewis-style zen and I am on course for totally horizontal cubing tomorrow. Slow-mo F2L here I come thanks so much guys, serious gratitude coming your way thank you.


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## SpartanSailor (Jul 4, 2018)

pglewis said:


> I've been waiting for a comp with 3x3, 3bld, and mbld ever since I had to bail on the Great Lakes regional, thankfully Michigan 2018 just opened up for registration.


I would like to make that one... but 2 things work against that happening. First, I’m a Spartan. So, even if I could manage to show up, I’d be decked out head to toe in MSU gear. But the more legitimate second, it’s a tad too far to drive for the weekend. 

I don’t see anything “nearby” that has MBLD on the competition listing. That said, there are always new comps popping up from time to time. I’m hopeful that one of the not-yet-published fall comps has 3BLD and MBLD so I can make an official attempt at MBLD.


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## 40yearstosolve (Jul 4, 2018)

Old Tom said:


> All these comments from Jan and @pglewis are terrific for me also. And note to @40yearstosolve: I really do enjoy slow and super-slow solving, thinking about what is happening. I don't memorize algs explicitly, though my fingers are picking many of them up. I never, or almost never, time myself. When I do, just makes me nervous. By contrast, slow is fun and relaxing, but I'm learning also. I have a stack of index cards where I take notes when I have an "Aha!" moment. I do write down the algs in notation then, just so that I have a record for review.
> 
> I started taking these notes when I started F2L this April. Reviewing them now, barely three months later, I am amused at how blindingly obvious some of those notes are. No doubt, I will feel the same about this month's notes soon enough. Or, I hope so!
> 
> But I saved some very rough and sketchy notes from back in 1981, where I solved the cube using nothing but commutators and conjugates, piece by piece, or at least I think that's what I was doing. I cannot really understand today what I did back then (I soon moved on to more compact methods), but I wonder if it might form the basis of a blind solve?



Haha superb. It’s crazy that you solved it on your own back in the day. I think that sets you apart from people like me that use tutorials. There’s nothing wrong in that of course, but to have the stamina, patience and sheer pigheadedness to solve it in a time when you had to do it alone is seriously impressive.

When I set out to solve the cube I was achieving a goal I had when I was 5.
When I solve it forty years later I did it for my son.
He can now solve it and I can solve it, so I got two goals for the price of one.
Then I wanted sun 2 minutes and I achieved that.
Now I want sub one minute.
And I am indeed getting close to enjoying polishing


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## Old Tom (Jul 5, 2018)

40yearstosolve said:


> Haha superb. It’s crazy that you solved it on your own back in the day. I think that sets you apart from people like me that use tutorials. There’s nothing wrong in that of course, but to have the stamina, patience and sheer pigheadedness to solve it in a time when you had to do it alone is seriously impressive.
> 
> When I set out to solve the cube I was achieving a goal I had when I was 5.
> When I solve it forty years later I did it for my son.
> ...



The key word in all that is "pigheadedness."


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## Mike Hughey (Jul 5, 2018)

Speaking of the virtues of pigheadedness, after my miserable 8/16 multi two weeks ago and 9/16 last week, I finally got to taste some near success with a 14/16 this week. Both failed cubes were very close - both had 2 flipped edges and one also had 2 twisted corners.


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## Logiqx (Jul 5, 2018)

Old Tom said:


> The key word in all that is "pigheadedness."



#sq1withoutguide


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## pglewis (Jul 5, 2018)

Old Tom said:


> I don't memorize algs explicitly, though my fingers are picking many of them up.



Yep, much like learning to play an instrument the muscles just learn to react with practice. 



Old Tom said:


> I never, or almost never, time myself. When I do, just makes me nervous.



This is a good philosophy when the timer is stressing you. If you're able to suppress that, it's also good to get used to running the timer so it's second nature and not a stress inducer when you do. Sometimes at home when I feel I'm being pressured by the timer I'll finish a solve and just sit there for 3 more seconds before stopping it as an assertion that I'm the one controlling the solve, not the timer. I continue to pick up new things and go through regressions with my averages. If I'm timing and get a slow solve I ask myself why. If it's because I had to pause to use something that's new in my tool-belt then that's deemed "an acceptable slow solve". New things only get faster if I use them, never if the timer pressures me to bypass them. 



Old Tom said:


> But I saved some very rough and sketchy notes from back in 1981, where I solved the cube using nothing but commutators and conjugates, piece by piece, or at least I think that's what I was doing. I cannot really understand today what I did back then (I soon moved on to more compact methods), but I wonder if it might form the basis of a blind solve?



Yes, "3-style" is pretty much THE method for fast 3bld today and execution is primarily pure commutators or commutators + setup moves. "Old Pochmann" is another method that only requires one alg for edges and one for corners (plus a "parity" alg to fix things up when there are an odd number of corners/edges to solve). It has a much lower barrier to entry than building a full commutator list in exchange for requiring a lot more moves during execution. 



SpartanSailor said:


> I don’t see anything “nearby” that has MBLD on the competition listing. That said, there are always new comps popping up from time to time. I’m hopeful that one of the not-yet-published fall comps has 3BLD and MBLD so I can make an official attempt at MBLD.



Seems like it's just buzzing with comps over on the east coast, feels like the heartland and midwest have been really thin this year.


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## SpartanSailor (Jul 5, 2018)

pglewis said:


> Seems like it's just buzzing with comps over on the east coast, feels like the heartland and midwest have been really thin this year.


There is a group of pretty motivated and very active “young” cubers. By young I mean, 20-ish give or take. College aged and they all host events. The delegates are very active as well. So, if someone wants to host an event... as long as there’s my already one scheduled, the delegates will come be there to make it happen. 

I take as much advantage as I can! Lol

I was actually thinking of talking with a couple delegates to discuss and East Coast Blind “Championships” or something. Host all the blind events. All of them. Maybe toss in a regular old 3x3 event too... I wouldn’t expect it to be a huge event, but I think it would get a decent turn out.


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## Lid (Jul 5, 2018)

Beat my 3x3 a12 twice the last week, first 14.65 then today: *14.551* (the 12 was the only skip)
13.523, 13.218, 16.802, 13.472, (DNF), (12.588), 13.885, 13.998, 17.373, 14.473, 14.382, 14.386

Some other PBs the last week:
Sq1 single, *9.251* (-3, 5) / (6, -3) / (1, -2) / (3, -3) / (-1, -1) / (0, -2) / (0, -3) / (-3, 0) / (0, -1) / (-2, 0) / (-1, 0) /
Solution: 0,1/0,3/ | 1,0/ | 0,3/-1,-1/ | 6,-2/0,3/-3,-3/3,0/ | -3,-1/0,-3/1,1/-1,2/3,1, easy but fullstep

4x4 a5: *55.229*
1. 56.593 f2 u2 D2 f' R' U2 D2 f2 R' B r' F' r' f R' f B' r F f2 D' F2 r L2 D F2 u2 R D' B L' U' u' B2 R U R' D B2 U
2. (53.220[o]) u' L' u r U r B u2 R U L u' F2 B' u2 D' B2 D' r u F D2 f L2 f L' D f' R D f' u' U2 F2 u' F D2 B F r'
3. (1:08.513[op]) D L R' F D f B' L' f' L B' f2 u2 L' u r' D2 u2 r' U' F2 r2 F' B R' D f2 u2 D f u2 F' L R2 F' u F' D u' r'
4. 55.499 D r L' f' R r2 B' D' U' F2 L r D' L R' D' L D' F' u r2 u2 D' F' B2 R' L' f' U' B' F2 L' B2 R' B2 u' B' u' r2 L2
5. 53.596 u' D' f U' R2 u L' r2 R B f' u r B' u F' B' f2 U' r' U L2 r' U B2 u U R2 f2 U D' B' D' B' R' B' U2 f2 B2 u


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## SpartanSailor (Jul 5, 2018)

Lid said:


> Beat my 3x3 a12 twice the last week, first 14.65 then today: *14.551* (the 12 was the only skip)
> 13.523, 13.218, 16.802, 13.472, (DNF), (12.588), 13.885, 13.998, 17.373, 14.473, 14.382, 14.386
> 
> Some other PBs the last week:
> ...


Nicely done. Always feels nice to be in the zone and get a bunch of PBs!


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## SpartanSailor (Jul 6, 2018)

Only 1/5 tonite with 3BLD practice. All were sub-4 and the success was 3:28. I was pushing my memo just a little, but the problem was in tracing more than anything. I forgot a couple twisted corners that I never memo’d (tracing error) and had a couple errors where I twisted the corner the wrong way (memo error). All in all, I’m feel like this was a good practice session. I like to keep them short(er) so I can manage my time. My next comp is in New Jersey at on the 14th. I can’t remember what all I signed up for, but I’m only really interested in 3BLD. This is the last 3BLD comp on the schedule until something is added that I can attend. 

Happy cubing, my friends!


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## pglewis (Jul 6, 2018)

I should be back to hitting the timer a lot over the next month in prep for comp. After an inauspicious start I landed a slim PB for Ao50 (sadly still over 25, though) and nudged my best Ao12 under 23. Had a counting sub 20 a couple times in the running Ao5 when I was in a groove and a best Mo3 of 20.01 lol. Also had a few spells where it seemed like I couldn't get a sub 25 to save my life. A lot of flubbed OLLs; the usual suspects, low frequency ones and some of the dot and I OLLs that I have yet to get as solid as they should be. A week of drilling the weak ones should do wonders.


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## SpartanSailor (Jul 6, 2018)

Just put down a 2:40.25 (1:42.14/58.11) for a new 3BLD PB! How did THAT just happen! Previous PB was 3:13! And I was playing it somewhat safe doing an extra memo review/trace having just had a nice 3:23 just prior! Man... sub-3 and I’m feeling super great!


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## mark49152 (Jul 6, 2018)

Nice job @SpartanSailor


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## SpartanSailor (Jul 6, 2018)

Thanks! I was a little stunned when I saw the time. I knew it was going well, but not THAT well!


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## openseas (Jul 6, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> Just put down a 2:40.25 (1:42.14/58.11) for a new 3BLD PB! How did THAT just happen! Previous PB was 3:13! And I was playing it somewhat safe doing an extra memo review/trace having just had a nice 3:23 just prior! Man... sub-3 and I’m feeling super great!



Great job!


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## Old Tom (Jul 6, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> Just put down a 2:40.25 (1:42.14/58.11) for a new 3BLD PB! How did THAT just happen! Previous PB was 3:13! And I was playing it somewhat safe doing an extra memo review/trace having just had a nice 3:23 just prior! Man... sub-3 and I’m feeling super great!



Will be asking you at FBg how to get started with BLD. Not sure if I want to get into that though, memory was never my strong point, even less so at 80.


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## mark49152 (Jul 6, 2018)

Old Tom said:


> Will be asking you at FBg how to get started with BLD. Not sure if I want to get into that though, memory was never my strong point, even less so at 80.


Go for it, you'll surprise yourself, and it's great fun.


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## SpartanSailor (Jul 6, 2018)

Old Tom said:


> Will be asking you at FBg how to get started with BLD. Not sure if I want to get into that though, memory was never my strong point, even less so at 80.


Definitely! I only recently (January) started and have really come to enjoy it. I know it helped me to talk with people too. Videos are good and a great reference, but you can’t really ask them questions...


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## mark49152 (Jul 7, 2018)

Last weekend's exploits.


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## Old Tom (Jul 7, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> Definitely! I only recently (January) started and have really come to enjoy it. I know it helped me to talk with people too. Videos are good and a great reference, but you can’t really ask them questions...



Great. Looking fwd to my first comp. Zero expectations except to have fun. Resisting trying to improve much until then, just gonna do my own slow solve of, lo, these many years, but with a new F2L thrown in.


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## newtonbase (Jul 7, 2018)

Well done @SpartanSailor 

@Old Tom Don't worry about your memory for blind. There's not a huge amount to remember and there's techniques to make it easier. I think that a good imagination is more useful than a good memory.


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## Old Tom (Jul 7, 2018)

newtonbase said:


> Well done @SpartanSailor
> 
> @Old Tom Don't worry about your memory for blind. There's not a huge amount to remember and there's techniques to make it easier. I think that a good imagination is more useful than a good memory.



You are all getting me curious. Will be something new to try.


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## h2f (Jul 7, 2018)

56.55 official 4x4 single. Not enough to make cut-off.


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## Logiqx (Jul 7, 2018)

Slightly late but for anyone interested!


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## Logiqx (Jul 7, 2018)

Here's one last video from Peterborough. My debut at Megaminx!


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## SpartanSailor (Jul 7, 2018)

Not my best practice day with several execution errors throughout. But I did manage to get this 3:32 on video with my phone. 2:07 memo and 1:25 execution.


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## pglewis (Jul 7, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> Just put down a 2:40.25 (1:42.14/58.11) for a new 3BLD PB! How did THAT just happen! Previous PB was 3:13! And I was playing it somewhat safe doing an extra memo review/trace having just had a nice 3:23 just prior! Man... sub-3 and I’m feeling super great!



Nicely done! Switching to M2 didn't seem to throw you much or for long. 

I had one I wish I'd timed yesterday, 10 edge and 8 corner targets with one of each already solved. Felt like one of my fastest ones yet at least. I'll be back to timing 3bld again soon, and will be making 2 cube attempts to get my mbld going.


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## SpartanSailor (Jul 7, 2018)

pglewis said:


> Nicely done! Switching to M2 didn't seem to throw you much or for long.
> 
> I had one I wish I'd timed yesterday, 10 edge and 8 corner targets with one of each already solved. Felt like one of my fastest ones yet at least. I'll be back to timing 3bld again soon, and will be making 2 cube attempts to get my mbld going.


Not too long. A couple weeks of drilling edge algs for the special cases and new setups... since I already understood “how” blind solving worked, it seems to go easier than I expected. 

I DEFINITELY notice an instant gain in execution time. I’ve started to push more on my memo which has resulted in a much lower success rate. But, it’s usually something simple—memo error or forgotten edge. All in all, my overall time has come down quite a bit. I’d be THRILLED to get anything in the range I’ve had the past few days. Of course, I want one with a success... not a DNF. ;-)


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## mark49152 (Jul 8, 2018)

Impressive haul of PBs this weekend, Grzegorz @h2f.... congrats!


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## pglewis (Jul 9, 2018)

I've analyzed my biggest CFOP weaknesses at the moment and I think I've settled on my latest concrete hit-list for the attack on sub 20, in no particular order:

Overall: Improve transitions between steps. F2L => OLL isn't awful because I'm almost always paying attention to edge orientation on the last pair or two, but cross => F2L and OLL => PLL lookahead can definitely use improvement. It wouldn't hurt a bit to do some more 2-sided PLL recognition drills, I still auto-U2 instead of recognizing in too many situations. 
F2L: Preference for placing solved slots in the back. I have some unconscious bad habits that lead to the opposite, I need to be more judicious and pay more attention to solved/unsolved slots when it's time to rotate. 

F2L: Cut some rotations / incorporate wide D turns. I can continue to reduce my rotations in general with deliberate practice, it used to be worse. Using wide D turns when appropriate might optimize that some more, though it will require a lot more work to train myself; I'm considering that adjustment as a longer game. 

F2L: Taking pieces out of wrong slots. I think many of my F2L choices are reasonably solid but when I kick pieces out of wrong slots I tend to just haphazardly take 'em out the easiest way in the moment. It can easily drain seconds if I get two of those cases during a solve and don't optimize well and is part of the excess rotation problem. There are a lot of cases and even just one or two tweaks to my F2L can cause me to regress for a while. This is going to be an investment but a very worthwhile one. 

Cross: Work on cutting out bad cross solutions. I don't like cross drills and I've put them off forever because I don't have a lot of time to trim from my best cross solutions. This is a consistency issue, however: often the main difference between a reasonably fast solve and a reasonably slow solve for me is the slow one had a slow cross. Since transitions are another focus I think cross +1 is the drill for me. Last time I drilled it back in Feb I averaged ~7.5 seconds for cross +1 and I doubt I'm much faster if at all now. Definitely a couple seconds to be had there even for me but I'm not sure how much work it'll take me to squeeze that out. Cutting out the really bad ones is the main motivation though. 

OLL: Drill the ones that still give me trouble. A high percentage of my slowest solves are still due to pauses for OLL recog, recall, or just getting the wrong OLL. Granted, that's been the case since tackling full OLL but I'm at the point where it's only a handful that are causing the most trouble now. This one is especially important for me leading up to comp because I've found out the hard way that my muscle memory is much worse with the adrenaline pumping. If it's slow and making me engage in thinking in the comfort of home there's a fair chance it'll lead to disaster under comp conditions.
In the less concrete column: actually look ahead and stop making dumb mistakes.


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## SpartanSailor (Jul 9, 2018)

@pglewis ”attack on sub-20”. I like that! Sort of where I am too... need to tighten up my F2L. I’ve been working on it some, but have really slowed down... I’m trying to keep a longer view, but my ego keeps saying “you were faster two weeks ago by mor than a few seconds AND had more sub-20 singles then too”


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## h2f (Jul 9, 2018)

mark49152 said:


> Impressive haul of PBs this weekend, Grzegorz @h2f.... congrats!



Thanks Mark.  I've practiced only 4x4 and 3x3 so the results in bigger cubes were surprise.


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## SpartanSailor (Jul 9, 2018)

Just noticed a fun looking comp on the other side of the ocean from me.... The Great British Blind Off 2019 in January. 

I’ve only seen a couple of similar stateside events, but none local enuff that I could attend. Maybe I’ll talk to the delegates about how to go about hosting such an event.


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## newtonbase (Jul 9, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> Just noticed a fun looking comp on the other side of the ocean from me.... The Great British Blind Off 2019 in January.
> 
> I’ve only seen a couple of similar stateside events, but none local enuff that I could attend. Maybe I’ll talk to the delegates about how to go about hosting such an event.


Yes. I'm really looking forward to that one but there's only 30 competitors so hope it doesn't fill too quickly. It's going to be exhausting.


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## SpartanSailor (Jul 9, 2018)

newtonbase said:


> Yes. I'm really looking forward to that one but there's only 30 competitors so hope it doesn't fill too quickly. It's going to be exhausting.


I figured it was limited based upon previous comps attendance/participation in those events. 

Yes. It will be exhausting... all that memorisation is going take its toll. But I’m sure you guys will enjoy every minute of it!


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## Mike Hughey (Jul 9, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> Just noticed a fun looking comp on the other side of the ocean from me.... The Great British Blind Off 2019 in January.
> 
> I’ve only seen a couple of similar stateside events, but none local enuff that I could attend. Maybe I’ll talk to the delegates about how to go about hosting such an event.


What a beautiful competition schedule!

It's not nearly as good, but I'm thinking I might try to attend Flag City Fall 2018, which is only 3 hours from me, but I might only make it on Sunday (when most of the good events are being held).


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## pglewis (Jul 10, 2018)

My first check-in on cross +1 was an eye opener. It's a microcosm of my lookahead in general with two clear peaks, an obvious 2 second gap between when I have some lookahead into the first pair and find one quickly vs. when I don't. 

1 second granularity: 
 

Half second granularity (with sup 10s removed):


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## JanW (Jul 10, 2018)

pglewis said:


> My first check-in on cross +1 was an eye opener. It's a microcosm of my lookahead in general with two clear peaks, an obvious 2 second gap between when I have some lookahead into the first pair and find one quickly vs. when I don't.
> 
> 1 second granularity:
> View attachment 9284
> ...


Not bad at all, and it will only get faster from there! 

I've never timed cross+1 before, here's my first attempt:



Ao50: 5.43.

Quite surprised about how even the distribution was. Anything over 6 seconds felt slow. The 9+ I totally messed up the cross, had to rebuild it after I thought it was done. The fastest, 1.55, was a 4 move X-cross. That was the only time I planned all of the first F2L pair during inspection. I could clearly improve there.

Edit: Next Ao50 was 5.06. I should try to make this consistently sub-5. My problem with planning X-crosses is that once I've planned the cross, I want to execute it immediately, before I forget how to do it. If I start thinking about the first F2L pair, I often mess up the cross. I'd likely need to do lots of X-crosses with unlimited inspection time, then slowly bring down the time limit and hopefully eventually be able to do it in 15 seconds.


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## h2f (Jul 10, 2018)

My 17.52 from last Sunday:


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## megagoune (Jul 10, 2018)

New package arrived!
 
The only speed cube in the package is the Gan 249M.
At first, I found it a little bit slippery and hard to turn. I felt I had to use a lot of force compared to my only other 2x2, the LingPo.
But after a small session and re-learning Ortega, I quite like it. It became smoother, it does not catch and the sound is nice (soft low pitch).
I also beat my PB ao5 at 5.99.


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## pglewis (Jul 10, 2018)

JanW said:


> Not bad at all, and it will only get faster from there!
> 
> I've never timed cross+1 before, here's my first attempt:
> 
> ...



Nice clean bell-curve... exactly where I'd like to get even if it's initially a couple seconds slower than you. I knew I was bleeding a fair bit, ditching those sup 9s alone would be enough to get my Ao50 under 25 at last. 

The humorous surprise was the mid 7 avg without actually landing many in the mid 7s, they're either 6's or 8's. I was sharper at the start of the session, mostly sub 7 in the first dozen or so solves. I feel like I can improve the non-mistake ones fairly easily with continued focus, low 6 should be doable even for me. 

I'll be curious if you continue drilling it on a regular basis and if you see a noticeable improvement on your full solves as a result.


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## SpartanSailor (Jul 10, 2018)

Still 2/5 success... but I’m in the mid-3s at this point pretty steadily. I’m hopeful that will bear out this weekend in Delaware. I wouldn’t mind a little Nationals Qualifying time

Time List:
1. 3:14.40) B' L2 D B2 F2 R2 D2 F2 U' R2 U2 L' F2 R2 B D L' B' R Rw' Uw
2. (DNF(3:17.87)) B R2 B U2 F' R2 F2 U2 F' L2 B U L2 B' R F2 D' U R U' L' Rw2 Uw2
3. 3:36.36 L2 F2 L2 D L2 B2 U' F2 R2 D2 B2 R F R' D2 B L' B' L2 F R Rw
4. DNF(3:22.98)[Missed BR/RB flipped edge during memo] F2 U' L2 D2 B2 D' F2 L2 U2 F2 L2 R' U' L' U' R F R2 B' D R Fw Uw2
5. DNF(3:42.63)[Forgot a pair during execution. ] F2 U L2 D' L2 B2 D' F2 D' B2 U2 F D L2 F2 L' D' F' R2 D L Fw Uw'


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## JanW (Jul 11, 2018)

The other day I was watching some World Cup while casually solving hand scrambles. One solve I noticed the cross seemed exactly the same as the previous solve. As I went on, all the F2L pairs also felt familiar and I know for sure I had the same PLL and OLL as the last solve. Seems I scrambled the same way twice in a row! I know I tend to do similar patterns when I scramble by hand, apparently it can happen that I do everything exactly the same. Another good reason why you shouldn't trust hand scrambles!



pglewis said:


> I'll be curious if you continue drilling it on a regular basis and if you see a noticeable improvement on your full solves as a result.


Any regular drilling would help right now. The last couple of months I've been doing timed sessions once a week at most. As a result I'm about 1 second slower than I was earlier in the spring.


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## AbsoRuud (Jul 11, 2018)

I do find that my hand scrambles are often slightly harder than random scrambles from my timer program. I tend to make sure everything is really messed up when I scramble by hand, so I don't tend to end up with easy edges or anything like that. With the random scrambles I often get one or sometimes even 2 or 3 edges of the white cross already solved, which makes the entire solve just that much easier. I'm nowhere near colour neutral yet.


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## h2f (Jul 11, 2018)

I dont like hand scrambles in all blindes. They seem always harder for me than normal.


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## Mike Hughey (Jul 11, 2018)

I've had hand scrambles come out the same quite a few times. That's why I usually toss the cube in the air a few times during each hand scramble now, on the rare occasions that I hand scramble.

Square-1 is particularly hard to hand scramble, so I have an "algorithm" I use to hand scramble it.


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## SpartanSailor (Jul 11, 2018)

I toss the cube a few times while doing hand scrambles as well. I onlybdo hand scrambles if I’m just messing around while watching tv or something... inwhich case I’m actually hoping to get the same F2L setups so I can practice those new little bits of frustration, I mean joy.


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## CLL Smooth (Jul 11, 2018)

There was a time several years ago when I would get a reaccuring hand scramble. I got it so many times I would recognize it right away and would already know exactly how the whole solve would go.


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## mark49152 (Jul 11, 2018)

I don't like hand scrambles and only use them if proper scrambles are not available to me. I also toss the cube, and do lots of moves, probably 100+. I also don't look at the cube towards the end to prevent myself from deliberately breaking lucky blocks etc.


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## pglewis (Jul 11, 2018)

I've done enough solves with the Yuxin HuangLong M stickerless to give my final take on it.

Shades: definitely my favorite shades of all the stickerless 3x3 I've tried. Full stop. 

Magnets: a bit strong for my taste for 3x3, I prefer the weaker feel of the mass produced GTS2M. But I like it for 3bld, I still execute somewhat slowly and like the confidence the stronger magnets give me. 

Speed: yes it's fast but a well maintained GTS2M tuned for speed is faster IMO, or at least feels like there is less turning resistance. I'd say it's on par with my magnetic Valk 3 stickerless. 

After about a week and a half I did a full disassembly, wipe down, and tune up. I decided to take the corner ball-bearing weights out at that time* and try it without them and I think I like it better without the weights. I introduced the extra variable of having just cleaned and lubed it at the same time though, jury is still out. I'm definitely back to the GTS2M for 3x3, still the reining champ for my tastes, but the HunagLong is a great puzzle and I consider it main-worthy. Like my Valk 3, I expect it to get plenty of use just for a change of pace here and there. 

* I recommend putting down a towel or something to catch the small elusive bearings that will try to escape


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## pglewis (Jul 11, 2018)

On the topic of hand-scrambling: when I don't use generated scrambles (often if I'm watching TV and just spamming) I like to enter "opposite land" for part of my scramble. Just before I'm about make a turn I do the opposite of what I was about to do. I try to mimic what the random state scramblers usually do, with a fair number of 180 turns in the first half. But truly random is hard.


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## Old Tom (Jul 11, 2018)

pglewis said:


> On the topic of hand-scrambling: when I don't use generated scrambles (often if I'm watching TV and just spamming) I like to enter "opposite land" for part of my scramble. Just before I'm about make a turn I do the opposite of what I was about to do. I try to mimic what the random state scramblers usually do, with a fair number of 180 turns in the first half. But truly random is hard.



In duplicate bridge (I'm very involved in that, don't get me started, wrong forum anyway) there is a great deal of discussion, data and controversy concerning random deals v hand deals. But most agree that random deals seem to be "weirder" than hand deals. The statisticians insist that this weirdness is illusory, that hand deals skew towards "flatter" and more boring distributions. I wonder if there is any data on cube scrambling. Seems to me it would be very hard to gather and analyze.


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## SpartanSailor (Jul 12, 2018)

pglewis said:


> I've done enough solves with the Yuxin HuangLong M stickerless to give my final take on it.
> 
> Shades: definitely my favorite shades of all the stickerless 3x3 I've tried. Full stop.
> 
> ...


Interesting point about stronger magnets for blind. I tend to like stronger magnets, but am also an avid GTS2M fan. I may have to give this Yuxin a shot.


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## mark49152 (Jul 12, 2018)

Old Tom said:


> I wonder if there is any data on cube scrambling. Seems to me it would be very hard to gather and analyze.


There is data on random state scrambles versus random move scrambles. That means genuinely random moves, which would exclude the biases that might occur with hand scrambles.

I can't find it right now, but from memory I think it showed that a sequence of random moves needs to be at least 40 long before the distribution of good/bad edges converges on what you would get with random state scrambles.


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## SpartanSailor (Jul 12, 2018)

mark49152 said:


> There is data on random state scrambles versus random move scrambles. That means genuinely random moves, which would exclude the biases that might occur with hand scrambles.
> 
> I can't find it right now, but from memory I think it showed that a sequence of random moves needs to be at least 40 long before the distribution of good/bad edges converges on what you would get with random state scrambles.


I remember something about 50 random moves. But I have no idea where I got that. So... if I do handscramble I just do random turns for a minute or so...


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## mark49152 (Jul 12, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> I remember something about 50 random moves. But I gave no idea where I got that. So... if I do handscramble I just do random turns for a minute or so...


There are three levels. 

1. Random state = ideal in terms of both distribution and length.

2. Random moves = requires 40+ moves to converge on an even distribution.

3. Hand scramble = pseudo-random moves with patterns introduced from muscle memory, possibly resulting in bias. 50 moves would probably be enough but who knows what biases are introduced by muscle memory. I'm not aware of any empirical study on that.

Anyway, for practical purposes, it doesn't really matter for home practice as long as the cube isn't half solved or showing the same patterns each time. IMHO the most important things to do in a hand scramble are (1) toss with spin half way through, and (2) avoid looking at it so you're not tempted to make it "more random" by breaking colour blocks. If you do those two things I suspect even 25-30 moves would be enough.


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## JanW (Jul 12, 2018)

mark49152 said:


> (2) avoid looking at it so you're not tempted to make it "more random" by breaking colour blocks.


I would very much agree with this. Many people have mentioned scrambling it some more if there are cross pieces solved or such. I think that's bad, because you also need to get used to solving the easy crosses. I still feel extra pressure whenever cstimer gives me a super easy cross, because I see the opportunity for a super fast solve, possibly even a new PB. It's not as bad as it used to be. When I first started doing timed solves I always messed up the easy crosses. Only by doing more easy crosses you'll eventually get used to solving with the extra pressure caused by high expectations.


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## SpartanSailor (Jul 12, 2018)

I still “ruin” a great opportunity when an easy cross solution presents during timed sessions...


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## phreaker (Jul 12, 2018)

I know the feelings on an "easy cross" when I see an easy EOLine. "Ok, I can fully plan this line, and it is really smooth." Ironically, my current PB was set with 8 bad edges to start. I've only once seen the mythical 0 edges, and seen the awful 12, a few times.

I placed a few orders in the last few days:

A 2 solution lenticular set of stickers, a fade a black lenticular set, and a calendar set + 3 MF3RS2s to go with them.

The rest is all real speed cubes:

Gan 354M (I really think this is my OH main to be, the 356s can just feel a hair large, and I prefer stickerless.)
Gan 460M (I like Gan cubes... what can I say?)
Huanglong M (And Yuxin)
Shadow M (And Qiyi... sometimes. I'm hoping this isn't a disappointment.)
Weilong GTS3

Well, back to work on BLD. I'm a bit concerned on the Gan cubes that I won't be able to use them for BLD due to logos.


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## pglewis (Jul 12, 2018)

I still need to get on the ball and start doing at least one daily 2-cube blind attempt. I'm reasonably confident I can get 2/2 under 20mins, 10 mins per cube should be plenty of time for solid memo for me now. Just the usual issue of splitting time when I have a lot of 3x3 work going on right now.

My fight to get a sub 25 Ao50 continues to be silly. Yesterday's episode: a PB running Ao25 of 23.65 but still landed mid 25 due to tanking the final dozen solves. The session included a shoulda-been 17.55 full step that was a +2... still landed sub 20 lol. Small victories though, a mid :23 Ao25 is the longest I've ever managed to command decent lookahead and during that spell it felt like I had to screw up to end up with anything above 23.


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## phreaker (Jul 12, 2018)

pglewis said:


> I still need to get on the ball and start doing at least one daily 2-cube blind attempt. I'm reasonably confident I can get 2/2 under 20mins, 10 mins per cube should be plenty of time for solid memo for me now. Just the usual issue of splitting time when I have a lot of 3x3 work going on right now.



I'll admit... What comes to mind when one sees 3 identical cubes in front of them. (Yes, I'm going to stickermod them, but I'm waiting until I get the GTS3M in, to actually set them up properly.) 3/3 MBLD of course! But it is SO strange going from my Gan SUM to the Mf3RS2, for BLD. I'm not sure I have a success on a non-magnetic cube yet. :/


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## newtonbase (Jul 12, 2018)

I always make hand scrambles difficult. I throw, spin between my fingers on opposite corners and break up anything that looks easy. But, I only ever use generated scrambles on timed solves (I only time blind) as I couldn't count a PB on a hand scramble.
I haven't done any big blind since finding out I couldn't make the UKs as I was too down about it but I've now found out that the holiday that got on the way has fallen through. Not only do I get to go but I've got brownie points for agreeing to miss it!


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## pglewis (Jul 12, 2018)

pglewis said:


> I still need to get on the ball and start doing at least one daily 2-cube blind attempt. I'm reasonably confident I can get 2/2 under 20mins, 10 mins per cube should be plenty of time for solid memo for me now. Just the usual issue of splitting time when I have a lot of 3x3 work going on right now.



Very promising day one despite 0/2 with more mistakes than are worth mentioning. 12:26 (7:00/5:25). Didn't bother with review but I had plenty of time if I wanted to. Actually quite surprised with the time.


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## newtonbase (Jul 12, 2018)

pglewis said:


> Very promising day one despite 0/2 with more mistakes than are worth mentioning. 12:26 (7:00/5:25). Didn't bother with review but I had plenty of time if I wanted to. Actually quite surprised with the time.


Well done. That's maybe 15 mins with a review (execution would be faster). I'm seeing the potential for 5 or 6 in an hour if you get a chance for a full attempt.


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## pglewis (Jul 12, 2018)

newtonbase said:


> Well done. That's maybe 15 mins with a review (execution would be faster). I'm seeing the potential for 5 or 6 in an hour if you get a chance for a full attempt.



I'm signed up for Michigan in about a month, thus getting off my butt to practice. I'm currently thinking 2 or 3 for my first attempt, I'd kinda like to stay well within what I think I can get 100% success on and I'm feeling like 3 might be my limit at the moment. Obviously time isn't a bottleneck and today's major issues were mostly execution, which is the easiest problem to fix so we'll see, I may be underestimating. I have enough locations for 8 cubes so plenty of room for growth in that dept.


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## SpartanSailor (Jul 12, 2018)

newtonbase said:


> I always make hand scrambles difficult. I throw, spin between my fingers on opposite corners and break up anything that looks easy. But, I only ever use generated scrambles on timed solves (I only time blind) as I couldn't count a PB on a hand scramble.
> I haven't done any big blind since finding out I couldn't make the UKs as I was too down about it but I've now found out that the holiday that got on the way has fallen through. Not only do I get to go but I've got brownie points for agreeing to miss it!



I wouldn’t count a PB off a hand-scramble either... just doesn’t seem right. I DO think I have reasonably random starting conditions, but I would never know if I had a bias during a hand scramble and so wouldn’t count it. In fact, I don’t even time when I’m just practing with handscrambles.... I mean, if I had a timer handy, I’d use it to generate scrambles too.


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## SpartanSailor (Jul 12, 2018)

pglewis said:


> Very promising day one despite 0/2 with more mistakes than are worth mentioning. 12:26 (7:00/5:25). Didn't bother with review but I had plenty of time if I wanted to. Actually quite surprised with the time.


I haven’t even tried another MBLD attempt since last week when I got 2/4. For the weekly, I’ll give 3 cubes a shot with a goal of 1 pt (2/3), which would be an improvement over my 0 pts (2/4) last week. But, I haven’t made the time yet to do that. Hopefully by the time I get a legit/official attempt at MBLD I will have a reasonable shot at 3/3 or 3/4. There’s NOTHING on my local comp schedule with MBLD that I am able to attend... there’s a Pennsylvania comp, but I don’t think I’ll be able to make that one. Otherwise, I’ll be on the lookout. I DO plan to talk with the delegates/organizers this weekend about a BLD featured event somewhere on the East Coast of the States—preferrably in Virginia or Maryland so I can make it.


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## Mike Hughey (Jul 13, 2018)

pglewis said:


> I'm signed up for Michigan in about a month


I wish I could go to Michigan, but it's looking like I'm just not going to be able to make it to that one. :-( Good luck there - it should be an awesome competition!


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## SpartanSailor (Jul 13, 2018)

Any of my fellow oldies have the Megaminx V2M from Xman? I am not really into Megaminx, but when I do get on a run, I get a little frustrated with the different edges moving when not desired. My guess is that the magnets would be beneficial much like in 4x4, 5x5 and 6x6. I have found that having magnets in bigger cubes has made a huge difference in my enjoyment to solve them (timed or slowly just for fun). Mis-aligned layers and related lockup’s are just not enjoyable.

My question is whether or not the Magentic version is worth the cost?


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## SpartanSailor (Jul 13, 2018)

pglewis said:


> I'm signed up for Michigan in about a month, thus getting off my butt to practice. I'm currently thinking 2 or 3 for my first attempt, I'd kinda like to stay well within what I think I can get 100% success on and I'm feeling like 3 might be my limit at the moment. Obviously time isn't a bottleneck and today's major issues were mostly execution, which is the easiest problem to fix so we'll see, I may be underestimating. I have enough locations for 8 cubes so plenty of room for growth in that dept.


Awwww man... that’s my home state. I’d LOVE to make a comp in Michigan. Of course, they are always hosted by that “other” school in the state. You know, the crappy blue and yellow one... (for our overseas friends, University of Michigan has yellow and blue school colours... I attended Michigan State Univeristy which uses Green and White—CLEARLY there is a rivalry)


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## Mike Hughey (Jul 13, 2018)

I can't respond intelligently, but I'm convinced a megaminx with magnets would instantly cut half a minute off my solves. I have so many problems with alignment on megaminx that I'm positive it would have a bigger effect than magnets had with big cubes for me - and magnets made a huge difference in my big cube times.


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## Mike Hughey (Jul 13, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> Awwww man... that’s my home state. I’d LOVE to make a comp in Michigan. Of course, they are always hosted by that “other” school in the state. You know, the crappy blue and yellow one... (for our overseas friends, University of Michigan has yellow and blue school colours... I attended Michigan State Univeristy which uses Green and White—CLEARLY there is a rivalry)


I don't see why you wouldn't go ahead anyway. If you hide your colors until you get into the building, I'm sure you'd survive - no one at the cubing competition would physically attack you.  (There might be some words exchanged, but certainly no physical attacks, anyway.)

But I admit you might want to try to be discreet as you get in the building...

I still think you should attend, despite it being the rival school.


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## SpartanSailor (Jul 13, 2018)

Mike Hughey said:


> I don't see why you wouldn't go ahead anyway. If you hide your colors until you get into the building, I'm sure you'd survive - no one at the cubing competition would physically attack you.  (There might be some words exchanged, but certainly no physical attacks, anyway.)
> 
> But I admit you might want to try to be discreet as you get in the building...
> 
> I still think you should attend, despite it being the rival school.


Oh... not a chance! I would go in FULL MSU glory and Colours!! There could be absolutely NO hiding that rivalry! I’d be on the spot at every moment to do right by MSU. My dad is a U of M alumni too... so there’s more than just a simple school rivalry at stake.


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## pglewis (Jul 13, 2018)

For my own unofficial PB list I pretty much stick to WCA regs (including no long inspections, +2 and DNF rules), csTimer scrambles, and Stackmat only. If I'm away from home I'll use timer.cubing.net on my phone but I'd be very reluctant to count any session not on Stackmat. It's not hard to cheat a second+ under my Stackmat times with one-finger timer stops and not having to drop the puzzle. This is in no way a knock on what anyone else does, it's for procedural reasons for myself: what I do for counting unofficial times at home closely matches solves under comp conditions. I have enough other things going on from the neck up to throw me off at comp, the solve procedure isn't one of them . BTW, once after doing a lot of timed solves on my phone I sat down with the Stackmat, did inspection, set the cube down, and touched the LCD with one finger. True story. 

That said, I _will_ accept a stackmatted single from a hand-scramble. It's common for me to watch something streaming while individually timing untracked solves on the Stackmat. I can't watch a show and constantly read notation but I can hand-scramble and follow the plot while getting my spamming in (and 3x extra time spent scrambling is acceptable). Singles are all about some luck and a lightning strike anyway so as long as it isn't something ridiculous... we all know if it felt like a legit solve happened. If I decide to track any more beyond a hand-scrambled single then I'll break out csTimer and the rest will be random state scrambles.



Mike Hughey said:


> I wish I could go to Michigan, but it's looking like I'm just not going to be able to make it to that one. :-( Good luck there - it should be an awesome competition!



I'm also eyeballing Flag City in Oct., it's too early to commit but that's a perfect comp at the right time if I can make it.



SpartanSailor said:


> I attended Michigan State Univeristy which uses Green and White—CLEARLY there is a rivalry



I have family that went to Michigan St., am an admirer of Tom Izzo's basketball teams, and don't give a hoot about THE Ohio State University so if I were forced at gunpoint to align myself with one of the three it'd be Spartans


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## Old Tom (Jul 13, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> Awwww man... that’s my home state. I’d LOVE to make a comp in Michigan. Of course, they are always hosted by that “other” school in the state. You know, the crappy blue and yellow one... (for our overseas friends, University of Michigan has yellow and blue school colours... I attended Michigan State Univeristy which uses Green and White—CLEARLY there is a rivalry)



Just go incognito, no colors. It's for a blind solve anyway.


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## openseas (Jul 13, 2018)

Giiker cube (brief) mod

Got this Giiker cube thingy, played a little bit & decided to change magnets (original is too strong)

- Original magnets look to be 4x2, probably N35, magnet strength was similar to my N35 family.
- There are slots for magnets and they are not glued. You can hear loud click sound because all magnets are slightly moving around inside the slot when you turn the cube. Slot size fits to 4x2 for corner, 5x1~2 for edges. Edge magnet slots have a little level(?) thing that pressed magnets inside the slot.
- Used 5x1 N38 for edges, 4x1.5 N35 for corners.
- I still feel I can use weaker magnets (I do lots of slice moves)
- I tried to use 3x1.5 but magnets are too small, just too noisy.

I plan to order 4x1 N35 for corners later to see the difference.


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## AbsoRuud (Jul 13, 2018)

It's such an adorable cube with its headphones. But a shame about that awkward colour scheme.


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## SpartanSailor (Jul 13, 2018)

I was sad to see on some reviews that the app doesn’t “track” M-slices, rather makes it two outside turns to match. Which isn’t too bad, but if I wanted to reconstruct a solve, that would need to be taken into account.


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## openseas (Jul 13, 2018)

AbsoRuud said:


> It's such an adorable cube with its headphones. But a shame about that awkward colour scheme.



Yes, need a different set of sticker. Plan to use GTS1.

@SpartanSailor / even WCA doesn’t recognize slice moves officially


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## AbsoRuud (Jul 13, 2018)

openseas said:


> Yes, need a different set of sticker. Plan to use GTS1.
> 
> @SpartanSailor / even WCA doesn’t recognize slice moves officially


I understand that you have to be very careful making the holes for the charger and that you have to follow their colour scheme or the cube in the app will look different from the cube in your hands.


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## SpartanSailor (Jul 13, 2018)

openseas said:


> Yes, need a different set of sticker. Plan to use GTS1.
> 
> @SpartanSailor / even WCA doesn’t recognize slice moves officially


Really? I know being off by an M-slice is a DNF, rather than +2. What about FMC? I’d think they would have to count M moves...


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## mark49152 (Jul 13, 2018)

openseas said:


> even WCA doesn’t recognize slice moves officially


Not sure what you mean by that, can you clarify? Are you talking about FMC?


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## Mike Hughey (Jul 13, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> What about FMC? I’d think they would have to count M moves...


No, M moves are technically invalid for FMC; they should be DNFed if properly judged.


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## SpartanSailor (Jul 13, 2018)

Mike Hughey said:


> No, M moves are technically invalid for FMC; they should be DNFed if properly judged.


Interesting... and good to know!


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## openseas (Jul 13, 2018)

mark49152 said:


> Not sure what you mean by that, can you clarify? Are you talking about FMC?



WCA doesn’t accept any slice moves in any events, fmc, n by n etc. just DNF. Not only that, official scrambles don’t include any of slice moves. Only OBTM is accepted and recognized as legal moves.


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## Mike Hughey (Jul 13, 2018)

Practicing 3BLD: I just got 6 DNFs in a row and was feeling pretty discouraged, then got 14 successes in a row! Best avg12 was 1:34.16, which is pretty good for me lately.

I'm still a bit discouraged by how long it has taken me to get used to putting edges in audio (A year ago, I used images for edges and audio for corners; then I switched to audio for edges and images for corners). I'm now to the point where I can generally do pretty well with a solve that has 10 edges. But at 12, it starts getting much slower - seems to add another 10-15 seconds to my memo time, and at 14 it almost always goes really bad, with a minute or more to memorize. I just can't seem to handle constructing an audio loop that long. Once I get the sequence constructed, it's usually fine, but it takes me too long to construct it. I'm not sure if it's just a limitation I have, or if I'm just not doing it right, or if I simply need more practice.


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## xyzzy (Jul 13, 2018)

mark49152 said:


> I can't find it right now, but from memory I think it showed that a sequence of random moves needs to be at least 40 long before the distribution of good/bad edges converges on what you would get with random state scrambles.


Convergence is a process, so technically it starts converging on the very first move, but the convergence is kinda slow. (And just like every statement qualified with "technically", that means "this is true but maybe not in a useful way"…)

Stefan Pochmann showed, back in the day, that with 25-move scrambles (the standard scramble length then), it was about three times as likely to get all 12 good edges as to get all 12 bad edges, even though these should have the same probability with random-state scrambles. The gap between the two probabilities decreases exponentially as the number of moves increases. At 30 moves, the probability of getting 0 bad edges is still 46% higher than expected; at 40 moves it's 4% higher; at 50 moves it's 0.4% higher; et cetera. It never ever reaches 0, although you can get as close as you want by increasing the scramble length. (source)

Is 4% an acceptable deviation? Maybe if you use a method that doesn't involve EO at the start, i.e. pretty much anything other than ZZ and 3OP. However, it's fairly easy to get random-state scrambles these days, so I don't think it's fair to count anything but solves done in "ideal" scrambling conditions.

(Also singles are pretty dumb and IMO they're just for fun, so however seriously you want to treat them is really up to you. Handscrambles all the way? Sure, whatever. Only random-state scrambles with cube cover and stackmat and all that stuff? That's cool too! The above paragraph mostly applies only if you want to measure how fast you _really_ are.)



SpartanSailor said:


> My question is whether or not the Magentic version is worth the cost?


This isn't quite answering your question, but I have the Galaxy v2 M and I quite like it. My initial impression of the puzzle was lukewarm at best, but it's really all around better than the Galaxy v1. Is it worth it over the nonmagnetic Galaxy v2? Hard to answer, I don't have both.  Some people (including myself) have mentioned that the magnetic "click" is fairly pronounced in this puzzle, so that's something to take into account.


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## mark49152 (Jul 13, 2018)

xyzzy said:


> Convergence is a process, so technically it starts converging on the very first move, but the convergence is kinda slow.


Yes. Please excuse my lazy wording but I do of course mean that by 40 moves it "reaches a sufficient level of convergence" as opposed to "starts to converge". How much convergence is sufficient is an open question, as you say, but 4% is way better than 40%. Thank you for finding the source.


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## JanW (Jul 13, 2018)

xyzzy said:


> Is 4% an acceptable deviation? Maybe if you use a method that doesn't involve EO at the start, i.e. pretty much anything other than ZZ and 3OP. However, it's fairly easy to get random-state scrambles these days, so I don't think it's fair to count anything but solves done in "ideal" scrambling conditions.


Keep in mind that in this case 4% more likely means 1.04/2048 instead of 1/2048. In other words you would get on average one extra scramble with all edges oriented every 50 000 solves. That is perfectly acceptable. Even with the 46% increase it would mean getting that case one time too many in about 4500 scrambles. Not really a big deal.


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## pglewis (Jul 13, 2018)

xyzzy said:


> (Also singles are pretty dumb and IMO they're just for fun, so however seriously you want to treat them is really up to you. Handscrambles all the way? Sure, whatever. Only random-state scrambles with cube cover and stackmat and all that stuff? That's cool too! The above paragraph mostly applies only if you want to measure how fast you _really_ are.)



Exactly. I'd personally be more stringent about "counting" my singles if I were 10+ seconds faster, too. At this point I pretty much know that a good one + luck should be roughly .6 * my global and darned if mine isn't about a tenth off that. That fist pump when you actually get it is a great moment though.


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## SpartanSailor (Jul 14, 2018)

Just had a brief chat with my son... and we are headed to the Pennsylvania 2018 comp, Aug 17-19. It’s a 3-day event and we are staying AT the host hotel. I’ll be busy as I’m signed up for FMC and MBLD for the first time, as well as a laundry list of usuals and a few others... I’m going to make an attempt of some sort at every event that I can “do”.

THAT said... My primary focus is in the BLD arena. For me that means 3 BLD and my first official attempt at MBLD. I’ll spend some time after tomorrow’s event trying to determine my approach to MBLD. I’d like to submit 4 cubes with an honest shot at getting three of them. Early thoughts... I may go for 3/3 or 3/4... I have a month to practice and prepare. 

FMC is just for fun since MBLD is the first day and nothing else I regularly compete is until day 2. I’m not going to worrry about it, instead, I’ll just do my “normal” solution and take notes. I’ll convert xyz moves into their FRU equivalent. For example, rather than a y cube rotation and R, I’ll just work it out as a B move.

I’d like to get a sub-20 single and a decent 3x3 ao5 before the end of 2018. Decent = sub-21 or sub-20 even, but I don’t know if that will actually happen in August. 

I still have tomorrow and another comp next weekend in Fredericksburg, VA, before this event.

interesting point: I started learing 3BLD as a personal challenge to add something new to my practice. I had NO IDEA I would enjoy it so much. Between now and Aug 17, my primary focus will be dialing in my 3BLD time/technique. I want to add a few more advanced items to my M2 3BLD practice. Of course, I would like to do amazing in every event, but reality tells me that if I don’t focus on one that I’ll just perform poorly in all. 

Anyway, I’m looking forward to Pennsylvania in August. My wife may actually come to this one. Although she will spend the days antique shopping. LOL


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## Tabe (Jul 14, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> Any of my fellow oldies have the Megaminx V2M from Xman? I am not really into Megaminx, but when I do get on a run, I get a little frustrated with the different edges moving when not desired. My guess is that the magnets would be beneficial much like in 4x4, 5x5 and 6x6. I have found that having magnets in bigger cubes has made a huge difference in my enjoyment to solve them (timed or slowly just for fun). Mis-aligned layers and related lockup’s are just not enjoyable.
> 
> My question is whether or not the Magentic version is worth the cost?


ABSOLUTELY.

The V2M is miles better than every other mass-produced megaminx. The only one close is the V1M from Cubicle Labs. Those are much more rare and expensive, however. They're nearly equal in performance and then it boils down to just preference in size (v1 being larger).

Bottom line: If you like megaminx, get the V2M. Worth every penny.


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## pglewis (Jul 14, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> I’d like to submit 4 cubes with an honest shot at getting three of them. Early thoughts... I may go for 3/3 or 3/4... I have a month to practice and prepare.



Keep in mind 2/2 is almost assuredly better than 3/4, since the tie breakers are least time followed by fewer failed puzzles.

Day 2 landed me 1/2, 14:34 (10:24/4:11). First cube was memo'ed strong enough to stick and it was a success. Second cube was executed first, I got all the corners but off by two flipped edges plus a 3 cycle. Memo felt painfully slow and I still had plenty of time to review again if I'd wanted/needed.

Edit: Review might have caught an edge I memo'ed the wrong sticker on but my attitude is "just don't do that" instead. Otherwise, no issues with memory; I traced wrong and probably an execution error or two, but what I actually memo'ed held. Looks like I'll be graduating to a 3 cube daily attempt soon.


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## newtonbase (Jul 14, 2018)

pglewis said:


> Looks like I'll be graduating to a 3 cube daily attempt soon.


 A thought on MBLD is to not wait to get n/n before you add cubes. I made a LOT of attempts at 4 before getting them all but got 5 on my 2nd attempt. It made me realise that you can be capable of success without actually succeeding and it's that capability that we are training for. So, if you are trying to increase your capacity, don't waste time on a number you are sure you can do.


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## One Wheel (Jul 14, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> Any of my fellow oldies have the Megaminx V2M from Xman? I am not really into Megaminx, but when I do get on a run, I get a little frustrated with the different edges moving when not desired. My guess is that the magnets would be beneficial much like in 4x4, 5x5 and 6x6. I have found that having magnets in bigger cubes has made a huge difference in my enjoyment to solve them (timed or slowly just for fun). Mis-aligned layers and related lockup’s are just not enjoyable.
> 
> My question is whether or not the Magentic version is worth the cost?



I'm a big fan of magnetic puzzles, and I bought the Galaxy v2 before the magnetic version was released with the intention of magnetizing it. Surprisingly enough, for the time being I've pretty well decided that it's not worth upgrading to the magnetic version (which would be cheaper than buying the magnets to add to my current puzzle. The Galaxy v2 really is a fantastic puzzle, and the magnetic version is actually really reasonably priced.


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## openseas (Jul 14, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> FMC is just for fun since MBLD is the first day and nothing else I regularly compete is until day 2. I’m not going to worrry about it, instead, I’ll just do my “normal” solution and take notes. I’ll convert xyz moves into their FRU equivalent. For example, rather than a y cube rotation and R, I’ll just work it out as a B move.



@SpartanSailor / You may want to use the rotation directly. It will make yourself less confusing & less time consuming effort. FMC notation is very easy - [u ] is a rotation same as U turn direction, [f] is a rotation same as F turn direction, [r] is a rotation same as R turn direction. You may want to check OBTM & FMC section in WCA regulations.


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## Mike Hughey (Jul 14, 2018)

openseas said:


> @SpartanSailor / You may want to use the rotation directly. It will make yourself less confusing & less time consuming effort. FMC notation is very easy - [u ] is a rotation same as U turn direction, [f] is a rotation same as F turn direction, [r] is a rotation same as R turn direction. You may want to check OBTM & FMC section in WCA regulations.


@SpartanSailor - You can do what @openseas suggests, and indeed it might be best for a first FMC attempt. But if you are able to do as you suggested, converting into the right moves, you'll help yourself get better at the event for the future, so I recommend you do that if you can.

I find that it's really easy to work that way because I'm mostly a blindfold solver. I don't pay attention to what side I'm turning based on how I'm holding the cube - I pay attention to what side I'm turning based on the color of the side. And I use my BLD orientation always when working with FMC solves, so I hold my cube blue on top, red in front, white on bottom (yes, I have a weird color scheme), so that I have no trouble at all knowing what side I'm turning based on the color of the center on that side.

Rotations are fine in FMC for a beginner, but it doesn't take long before they really slow you down. So if you'd like to ever get good at FMC, I recommend you try to go straight for writing down U D R L F B. I guess I'd say if you're going in cold without practicing at all, maybe do as openseas suggests. But if you think you might do a practice solve or two (may I suggest you might try a couple on our weekly competition  ), then give it a try without the rotations and see if they work for you.

Edit: In case it's not clear, I should point out that I always do FMC solves color-neutral (as does almost everyone - it's very costly not to). So although I will always use my color scheme to determine what move to write down, I might be solving with "cross" on any color. My color scheme choice is only for determining what move to write down.


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## bubbagrub (Jul 14, 2018)

+1 to what Mike said. There are two good reasons for this:

1. It makes doing insertions, NISS and other more advanced FMC stuff possible.
2. It's so good to be able to look at the cube from any angle and just know, with certainty, that the turn you're doing is F (because it's green) or L (because it's orange) without having to worry about what rotations you've done so far.

BTW: one nice side-effect of using WCA orientation (white on top, green on front) if you do, is that *B*lue is *B* and *R*ed is *R*, so remembering those comes for free, in a sense. And it's not too hard to remember White is U, and so the others are just the opposites.


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## SpartanSailor (Jul 14, 2018)

Managed to miss the second round by a single place today in 3x3. Lol... and it was my worst 3x3 day in as long as I can recall. 

On the other hand, my goal of sub-4 for 3BLD went well. Got 4:07 then 3:30.... then timed out (10 min cumulative limit) for a DNF on my final attempt. So, I’m quite pleased no matter what else happens today. In fact, I am taking all the other events as just fun anyway.


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## pglewis (Jul 14, 2018)

newtonbase said:


> A thought on MBLD is to not wait to get n/n before you add cubes. I made a LOT of attempts at 4 before getting them all but got 5 on my 2nd attempt. It made me realise that you can be capable of success without actually succeeding and it's that capability that we are training for. So, if you are trying to increase your capacity, don't waste time on a number you are sure you can do.



If I hadn't already decided to go for three in today's practice your post would have pushed me over the edge . 

I've only been doing one 3bld solve most days for a while, probably 5 solves a week just to keep rust from forming. Given the variety of mistakes in my first attempt I thought I'd need a bit more remedial practice. But neither memory nor time were issues on the 1/2 and I think those are the only reasons not to keep adding another. 



SpartanSailor said:


> my goal of sub-4 for 3BLD went well. Got 4:07 then 3:30.



Well done again, congrats!


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## openseas (Jul 14, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> On the other hand, my goal of sub-4 for 3BLD went well. Got 4:07 then 3:30.... then timed out (10 min cumulative limit) for a DNF on my final attempt. So, I’m quite pleased no matter what else happens today. In fact, I am taking all the other events as just fun anyway.



Congrats! always exciting to achieve your goals!


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## pglewis (Jul 14, 2018)

My GTS3 M arrived yesterday, I'm sure there will be plenty of reviews and nearly everyone will have one. Quick take:

OOTB: Extremely dry as other reviews mention and some spring noise on all six faces. I tuned with Lubicle Speedy on the springs and a few drops of Speedy plus DNM-37 on the edges and worked it in.

Shades: Excellent IMO. orange/white/green are very close to the GTS2, red and blue are a lot darker, and yellow is a fluro yellow fairly close the Valk 3.

Magnets: Strongest feeling magnets of any of my magnetic cubes, including the HuangLong. I'm not sure what I'll think about it for 3x3, I've preferred weaker magnets so far and I find I overshoot U2 in the heat of battle because it needs a fair bit of relative initial force and the 2nd turn needs less due to inertia. Particularly noticeable with H and Z perms because the overshoot is good for jamming the M slices.

Sculpt: I suspect this will initially be a mixed bag on tastes but I'm gonna say "potential game changer for future puzzles". I've never had chronic grip problems with stickerless but I know some people do. It's definitely subtle but I do feel the ridges, I have the feeling going back to other stickerless 3x3s after long sessions with this puzzle will feel weird, it may be one of those things like magnets where once I've tried it there's no going back.

This has early high potential to usurp the GTS2 M for me for 3x3. There is obviously a lot of room for tension tweaks which I've barely explored and inaccurate turning tends to adjust itself. For 3bld it's likely instant main, between the magnet strength to avoid accidental layer turns and the grip reassurance. Would be a pricey platform for mbld... and as soon as I amassed a fleet of them, something I like better would come out anyway .


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## h2f (Jul 14, 2018)

About FMC what @Mike Hughey and @bubbagrub wrote. It takes a little effort to get used to write solutions without rotations even if one does rotations during solve. 

Going back to big blindes and 588 Project. First ever mo3 in 5bld: 15:46.81. Memo is poor - around 9 minutes on average but I'm happy with it.


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## adimare (Jul 14, 2018)

Just got back from my first speedsolving competition since 2011. There are a lot of very fast kids here, but they are either very new to BLD or don't like it at all, so I actually had a chance to get the BLD NR. My plan was to go for a safe solve in the first attempt, then try for fast times in the other two. Well, that failed miserably; even after reviewing memo like 3 times in the first two solves I got DNFs (memo was wrong in both attempts, I keep confusing orange with red). Really wanted to get sub 1 min, but decided to try a super safe solve in the 3rd attempt. Ended up getting a 2:31 success, which was still good enough for the NR . I thought I'd be disappointed if I didn't get sub 1 min, but just getting a success felt amazing.


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## SpartanSailor (Jul 14, 2018)

At the end of the day, I got PB singles in every event—even 3x3 (by the narrowest of margins, but still NOT sub-20 official single). In addition to 3x3 and 3BLD, I did 4x4 today and got a 1:09 official PB single and then surprised myself with a 2:57 PB single for 5x5 (yes, I’m slow) and the limit was 3:15. My first 5x5 attempt was 3:23 and would have been a competition PB, but registered as a DNF since I exceeded the time limit.


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## mark49152 (Jul 15, 2018)

Congrats @SpartanSailor and @adimare!


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## openseas (Jul 15, 2018)

Day 1 finished @ Tacoma, WA, another mental breakdown.

Total of 8 DNF / 9 Solved cubes, at least, avoided the worst outcome.

2 attempts for 4 & 5 BLD, each, just targeted for a safe success but failed by 1~2 cycles per each attempt. Close for all 4 but 95 or 99% doesn’t give you any score but 0 point. 5 BLD 2nd was all good except the parity alg:-(

3BLD, barely made success & 2nd round chance for tomorrow. I’m at ~70% coverage of corner comms but need more drill for a faster execution. So, not expecting any decent time for a while until I have a full confidence in fast exec.

MBLD was not that bad, 8/10, first official 10 Cube try. 1 missed by a flipped edge, 2nd by incorrect recall - executed backward but was not correct. I did 10th cube as a normal 3BLD run (not using a room) - it worked, first time in an official attempt.

Tomorrow, last attempts for 4,5 & MBLD, really hope to have a 5 BLD success. There are 2 more rounds of 3BLD but I’m not even close to top 8, so, the 2nd round will be it for me. Hoping to have more than one success (never had 2 successes in any official BLD rounds.) for MBLD, will try 11 cubes.


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## pglewis (Jul 15, 2018)

1/3 on mbld yesterday without time crunch or memory failures. 

1/4 today, same: 31:20 (21:00/10:20). Might try 5 tomorrow.


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## pglewis (Jul 15, 2018)

A couple thoughts since this is new to me. 

I'm executing the last cube first then in order of memo from there, so execution order for four: 4, 1, 2, 3. This isn't causing problems so far and seems to be working. I don't exactly do the last cube like 3bld but I can definitely memo it much faster than the others. 

I'm still memo'ing corners/edges and executing edges/corners like I do in 3bld. This threw me off on one cube today as I started executing corner memo on the edges. I think attempting to undo that was the source of failure for that one (also one of the culprits for the execution time). Executing in the opposite order as memo doesn't throw me at all in 3bld but it's weirder when I'm walking my locations in multi. I'm not sure I want to reverse the memo order for fear it'll throw a wrench into 3bld. Maybe I just need to swap where I put my edges and corners so it works out linear when going back through. 

I'm also curious to hear any particular successful tricks any of you might have incorporated for loci. My method is bare-bones: a linear list of locations each with a spot for corner memo and edge memo. I know a lot of people also have another spot to track twisted/flipped pieces separately. I'd love to hear any other novel things you folks might be doing that has proved helpful, the procedure is new to me and I'm adding puzzles much more quickly than expected.


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## openseas (Jul 16, 2018)

Day 2 almost finished.

4/5/MBLD all failed, but very close.
4BLD off by the last corner cycle unsetup error (silly me, LD’’d instead of D’L for the last move). 5BLD, one wing setup error threw me off, MBLD, 3/11. 7 DNF, all by one cycle off or flipped edges. Since it was my first official 10+ attempt, concerned on times but it was ok. Didn’t need to rush. Need more drilling on comms - reversed comms were the main issue.

3BLD 2nd round, 2 success which is my success rate PB -). The first one, realized used a wrong comm (again), went back twice. Otherwise could have been a little bit better time but well, a success is a success. 3rd one, traced wrong, so redid memo, tried to make it solved.

BTW, Jeff got another 17s (not his PB though) but Max got WR 17.55 with the same scramble. They also have multiple UWR 2 man BLD relay of 34s (14 + 19). Looks like the best BLD couple in the world


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## Mike Hughey (Jul 16, 2018)

It's been a very long time since I've had a sub-1 3BLD solve. I still haven't managed it lately (several years now), but I got close with this one:
F2 D2 L' D2 B2 L U2 L' B2 D2 U' L' D2 R' D' B F2 L B' L Uw Fw2
1:00.74 [27.27]

Awfully nice scramble - should have been much faster, but I stalled recalling the commutators for a couple of edge pairs. :-(


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## SpartanSailor (Jul 16, 2018)

Very impressive @Mike Hughey . Under a minute is just incredible to me...


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## openseas (Jul 16, 2018)

Questions regarding MBLD,

1) Do you do Swap to avoid parity? (UB/UL or any other combination)
2) What's your sequence of memo/exec? CECE? ECEC? ECCE? CEEC?
3) When you have 3 packs and each pack have 4 cubes, do you execute the last pack first? or first pack first? Execution sequence: P1-P2-P3? P3-P2-P1? P3-P1-P2?
4) Within each pack of 4 cubes, what's the execution sequence? Cube 1 - 2 - 3 - 4? or 4 - 3 - 2 - 1?

@mark49152 @Mike Hughey @newtonbase ?


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## Mike Hughey (Jul 16, 2018)

1. I do swaps for parity now. UB/UL. I started doing that a year ago, when I switched to audio for edges for regular 3BLD, so my 3BLD and multi solving would be consistent.
2. I do CEEC now. I put all corners in one location and all edges in a second location, then solve location 2 before solving location 1. So for 4 cubes, I'd memorize locations 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8, then solve 2 1 4 3 6 5 8 7.
3. I switched to packs of 8 several years ago, because the experts do packs of 8. Maybe I should acknowledge I'll never be that good and switch to packs of 4, but hope springs eternal.  I think if I were good enough to do 24, I would probably solve the last memorized pack first, then the first, then the second. But as is with 16 I still don't have time yet to refresh both packs before starting, so I've been executing first pack, then second.
4. Definitely in order - 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8.


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## pglewis (Jul 16, 2018)

Mike Hughey said:


> 1. So for 4 cubes, I'd memorize locations 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8, then solve 2 1 4 3 6 5 8 7.



This is what I explained poorly in my last post. I'm also doing the 2-1-4-3-6-5... sequence but it threw me off on one cube where I initially started executing corner memo for edges. I'm considering trying my memo in that sequence instead of execution. Not sure if it'll matter, I fear I'll just mentally reorder my locations to whatever order I do memo and maybe I should just get used to the weird execution order.


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## mark49152 (Jul 16, 2018)

openseas said:


> Questions regarding MBLD,
> 
> 1) Do you do Swap to avoid parity? (UB/UL or any other combination)
> 2) What's your sequence of memo/exec? CECE? ECEC? ECCE? CEEC?
> ...


1&2. No. My MBLD order is ECEC and I currently have no plan to change. Parity execution isn't a big hit on MBLD and I prefer to keep things simple. I'm working on swapping for other BLD events and once I'm very comfortable I might switch for MBLD too, but I'd be doing so for consistency not for benefits.

3. I memo in packs of 4/16. Execute last pack of 4 first, then the rest in order.

4. Always same order as memo. With the exception that when I do the last cube as a safe 3BLD, I memo/review corners along with the other 3 cubes then just do the edges as audio.


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## h2f (Jul 16, 2018)

My 3 cents.


openseas said:


> Questions regarding MBLD,
> 
> 1) Do you do Swap to avoid parity? (UB/UL or any other combination)
> 2) What's your sequence of memo/exec? CECE? ECEC? ECCE? CEEC?
> ...



1. No. I do parity else way: I do swap UBL-UBR than modfied Jperm. 
2. EC exectuion: EC.
3. Last pack first. Next: P1-P2-P3.
4 Execution: 1-2-3-4.


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## newtonbase (Jul 16, 2018)

I keep it very simple at the moment 


No. It's the only baling event where u Don swap. 
ECEC
Packs of 4 get solved in memo order
I solve these in memo order too
I sometimes do a 3BLD but my success rate is low so I'll only do it if short of time.


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## openseas (Jul 16, 2018)

@Mike Hughey @mark49152 @newtonbase @h2f @pglewis / Thanks, y'all!

This weekend MBLD was the first in a month, kinda forgot about sequence. Without thinking, started corner first then I realized I used to do ECEC. So, after two rooms (2 cubes), re-started with ECEC sequence. Since I do UB-UL swap for 3BLD, it was a little bit odd having odd edges and corners + parity also felt weird. What was worse, especially yesterday, I forgot whether I did parity or not. I do parity after finishing edge (always) but after finishing corner, couldn't remember whether actually I executed parity. That messed up couple of cubes (for one cube, did parity 3 times - did at first, then, thought I didn't, then, realized I did, so 3 total for one cube).

My plan is to use UL-UB swap for the consistency and to remove odd edge targets. Then, wondering what would be the memo/exec sequence. I'll probably do what Mike is doing, CEEC like 2143 + last pack of 4 followed by the first pack then sequential.

These days, top BLDers are doing 2C2E. Then, you can do ECEC + save one alg. With full floating, thousands of algs, parity alone to drill. I don't think I'll get there - SWAP will be the only "fancy" stuff I'll keep doing.


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## newtonbase (Jul 16, 2018)

openseas said:


> @Mike Hughey @mark49152 @newtonbase @h2f @pglewis / Thanks, y'all!
> 
> This weekend MBLD was the first in a month, kinda forgot about sequence. Without thinking, started corner first then I realized I used to do ECEC. So, after two rooms (2 cubes), re-started with ECEC sequence. Since I do UB-UL swap for 3BLD, it was a little bit odd having odd edges and corners + parity also felt weird. What was worse, especially yesterday, I forgot whether I did parity or not. I do parity after finishing edge (always) but after finishing corner, couldn't remember whether actually I executed parity. That messed up couple of cubes (for one cube, did parity 3 times - did at first, then, thought I didn't, then, realized I did, so 3 total for one cube).
> 
> ...


How does 2E2C work? I've seen it mentioned but but not explained


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## Mike Hughey (Jul 16, 2018)

newtonbase said:


> How does 2E2C work? I've seen it mentioned but but not explained


I assume that's just knowing all possible ways to solve for 2 corners and 2 edges, in whatever permutation and orientation, and using those algs to solve for parity after executing all the even edges and corners to be solved. Like he said - tons of algorithms to shave off a single algorithm for parity. Worth it if you're in the sub-20 second range and trying to be better than everyone else.


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## openseas (Jul 17, 2018)

Mike Hughey said:


> I assume that's just knowing all possible ways to solve for 2 corners and 2 edges, in whatever permutation and orientation, and using those algs to solve for parity after executing all the even edges and corners to be solved. Like he said - tons of algorithms to shave off a single algorithm for parity. Worth it if you're in the sub-20 second range and trying to be better than everyone else.



@newtonbase / Yes, just like Mike explained. When you have a parity, you'll have a buffer and last piece for edge and corner. So, that's how you end up with 2E & 2C. You can just imagine how many combinations they will be. Flip/Twist also matters, so.... 462 from one buffer set. These guys are now floating buffers to avoid cycle break, and also there is something called "rebound floating"..... just following up those concepts give me a brain freeze.....

Kaijun is a completely different animal since he is not using any of these, pure extremely fast memo + fast executions. (His comms are known to be not so optimal....)


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## pglewis (Jul 17, 2018)

Catastrophic failure on my 5 cube attempt, didn't even try execution. Memo started well but I was feeling mentally fatigued and sluggish by the end.

I've been pre-orienting my cubes and decided not to this time around and sure enough I memo'ed cube 3 and started cube 4 in the wrong orientation without thinking. I know I don't want to waste time orienting up front but I'm going to go back to it until I'm more comfortable, it sure didn't save me any time today.

I memo'ed the first four plus the mis-memo, went back around for review and was still having difficulty with recall on some of them and hadn't even looked at cube 5 yet. I was at 40 mins when I threw in the towel. Biggest issue besides the rookie mistake were some images I couldn't assign well or quickly, a lot comes down to whether or not I can quickly conjure up a good one.

Annoyed but not disheartened. I think I'd have been in fair shape without the memo mistake burning so many calories. Try 'er again tomorrow or Wed.

Edit: long edge memo on cube 4 wasn't helping a bit late in the memo, "CA QT PO WN RB RD FE GX"


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## pglewis (Jul 17, 2018)

After a breather plus unlimited time to go through 1-4 and look-up troublesome images I picked back up... did a one-pass careful memo of cube 5 and careful execution for 4/5. Execution was a highly cautious 11.5 mins, the mistake was definitely an execution issue somewhere regardless.


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## h2f (Jul 17, 2018)

@openseas it looks like good plan. I've noticed in 5bld that after around 150 I've started to be familiar with my order memo and rooms and it helped a lot to cutoff times and to increase success rate.



openseas said:


> Kaijun is a completely different animal since he is not using any of these, pure extremely fast memo + fast executions. (His comms are known to be not so optimal....)



Maskow too.


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## SpartanSailor (Jul 17, 2018)

Some good MBLD discussion going on here... I haven’t gone “all in” on MBLD and for now, I’m just hoping that next month in Pennsylvania I can string together 2 using my 3BLD memo method with 3 cubes submitted and get at least 1 point.

I HAVE however, started to drill/learn a new technique for 3BLD. Not anything new to you all, but new to me. The trick (I guess it’s a commutator) where you swap FU or BD with a non-M slice edge piece in a single ALG (solving 2 edges simultaneously). I still have to “think” about it, but at this point I “know” if the FU/BD piece is first, then the M2 is first in the sequence and if FU/BD are second then M2 is at the end as well. 

I think I’m going to spend a few days just drilling those algs by starting with a solved cube and just doing those swaps “around the cube” by exchanging FU or BD with every other edge position on the cube and just work it into muscle memory a little. My next BLD in comp is Aug 17-19 in Pennsylvania, so I have enuff time to get that down smooth. Another trick I may begin to add is the UB/UL swap for parity. I know this and have even used it, but I just haven’t taken to it. I’m not a sub-2 (or even close) 3BLD’r so saving 3-4 seconds in execution is less of a concern on that point for me than is still improving my memo speed. Although, I DO like this new way to solve FU/BD.

On a separate note: I am looking forward to meeting @Old Tom this weekend in Fredericksburg, VA. They are hosting 2,3,4,5,6 and 7....nothing else. I’m doing 2-6. I’d LOVE to finally get a sub-7 ao5 for 222, but I’m not going to put much effort into that this week. I’m pretty sure I can make the 1:30 cutoff for 4x4–unless I have two horribly bad first attempts. 5x5 limit is 3:30 (cutoff is like 2:15–not a chance). I think I’ll get two singles in the 3:00-3:30 range. I’ll take that. BUT, I really would like to get an official 6x6 single. The limit is 7:00. Which I “can” do, but usually coming in in the low 7s. That said, I’m hopeful. Notice I have NO goal for 3x3... that has just become a frustration—I figure the less I worry about it, then eventually it’ll work out and I’ll actually do well in a comp. Until then, I put too much pressure on myself. SOOOOOO.... it’s just going to be fun weekend solving a bunch of cubes, seeing some competition regulars/friends and meeting new people.


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## pglewis (Jul 17, 2018)

It was a battle to get everything to stick yesterday but once it did I can still recall all 5 cubes today. I'm going to expand my locations so I'll have plenty of untainted ones for this situation. I'm considering just doing a 2 or 3 attempt today to have a "light" day; it feels like 2 should be SO easy after the attempt at five. Definitely back to 5 tomorrow regardless. 



SpartanSailor said:


> I haven’t gone “all in” on MBLD and for now, I’m just hoping that next month in Pennsylvania I can string together 2 using my 3BLD memo method with 3 cubes submitted and get at least 1 point.



First off, do you memo as pairs? If not, I highly suggest you do for mbld. 3bld goes by quickly enough that you can probably free-form your way through the solve but pairs + images really makes mbld memo much easier for me. Doesn't much matter, whatever you're doing you'll be better at it than I in a few weeks or months .


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## SpartanSailor (Jul 17, 2018)

pglewis said:


> First off, do you memo as pairs? If not, I highly suggest you do for mbld. 3bld goes by quickly enough that you can probably free-form your way through the solve but pairs + images really makes mbld memo much easier for me. Doesn't much matter, whatever you're doing you'll be better at it than I in a few weeks or months .


I do memo as pairs. It helps keep track of even/odd and whether my FU/BD edge is 1st or 2nd in the pair... but I don’t have images for the most part.


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## pglewis (Jul 17, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> I do memo as pairs. It helps keep track of even/odd and whether my FU/BD edge is 1st or 2nd in the pair... but I don’t have images for the most part.



That's the only area I still have a head start on you, I've put a lot of work into my image list for a year and a half now despite a light practice routine. I recently migrated my list out of a Google sheet and into a database and I have a bare bones Node script locally for "flash cards" and pair lookup. 

The images are currently just stored as a single comma separated list but I plan to break that out into a one to many relationship so each image is in its own row. The impetus for that is to eventually have a system that can categorize individual images (person, action, object, regional or age bias, anything else useful) and the ability to share individual images among users. Have a hole in your image list? Search what other people are using for the pair, potentially with category filters, and add ones you like to your list with a single click. It's still very basic just to scratch my own itch at the moment.


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## Old Tom (Jul 17, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> Some good MBLD discussion going on here... I haven’t gone “all in” on MBLD and for now, I’m just hoping that next month in Pennsylvania I can string together 2 using my 3BLD memo method with 3 cubes submitted and get at least 1 point.
> 
> On a separate note: I am looking forward to meeting @Old Tom this weekend in Fredericksburg, VA. They are hosting 2,3,4,5,6 and 7....nothing else. I’m doing 2-6. I’d LOVE to finally get a sub-7 ao5 for 222, but I’m not going to put much effort into that this week. I’m pretty sure I can make the 1:30 cutoff for 4x4–unless I have two horribly bad first attempts. 5x5 limit is 3:30 (cutoff is like 2:15–not a chance). I think I’ll get two singles in the 3:00-3:30 range. I’ll take that. BUT, I really would like to get an official 6x6 single. The limit is 7:00. Which I “can” do, but usually coming in in the low 7s. That said, I’m hopeful. Notice I have NO goal for 3x3... that has just become a frustration—I figure the less I worry about it, then eventually it’ll work out and I’ll actually do well in a comp. Until then, I put too much pressure on myself. SOOOOOO.... it’s just going to be fun weekend solving a bunch of cubes, seeing some competition regulars/friends and meeting new people.




@SpartanSailor: I am very much looking forward to Fredericksburg also, meeting you and apparently your son also. Just look for the oldest guy there, white hair, white moustache.

But I am dreading it also. You won't believe how slow I am. For 30 plus years I never (hardly ever) timed myself, just tried for an easy, fewest algs possible, relaxing method, no rush. Now I've taken up F2L, love it, completely intuitive, but slow to find the pieces and zero look ahead. Still using an idiosyncratic LL method, my own as far as I can tell. Slow but sure.

But worst: I've been practicing some against a clock, and it makes me freeze, brain goes to mush. In the few days left, will do it against the clock some more, try to train myself to just ignore the clock. (Ha!) Funny, I've been used to competitive pressure all my life, high level duplicate bridge, etc. And plenty of speed chess with clocks when I was younger (that gets really tense).

No matter, I will be there and have fun. Plan to stay all or most of the day, even though my first round 3x3x3 (only event) will be over quick.


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## SpartanSailor (Jul 17, 2018)

There are definitely benefits to having solid images that you can reuse for a given pair. Certainly in terms of speed...

Right now most of my letter pairs usually end up with the same “idea” or image or name of a person I know or .... whathaveyou


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## SpartanSailor (Jul 17, 2018)

@Old Tom 
Think of it this way.... they give you 10 minutes to solve the 3x3. If you take all 10, then you’ll get 50 minutes of solving at the competition. That way you get your money’s worth!


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## Mike Hughey (Jul 17, 2018)

@Old Tom 

Do make sure you do plenty of timed practice over the next few days. I've definitely seen people freeze up at competitions and wind up frustrated with themselves, but if you can do a bunch of timed solves before you compete, it can really help because you'll know you can really do this.

Also, do you have a stackmat? If not, be sure to at least watch some videos to understand how a stackmat works, and to understand how to compete. The more you're familiar with what the process is like, the more you can just relax and solve the cube without worrying about all the side details. If you're familiar with the process, it really is as easy as solving it at home.

Make sure you at least watch this video - it should be a big help to knowing what to expect:


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## SpartanSailor (Jul 17, 2018)

Mike Hughey said:


> @Old Tom
> 
> Do make sure you do plenty of timed practice over the next few days. I've definitely seen people freeze up at competitions and wind up frustrated with themselves, but if you can do a bunch of timed solves before you compete, it can really help because you'll know you can really do this.
> 
> ...


Good point about the process. They usually have a new competitor tutorial in the morning, but I’ll be more than happy to explain it all to you as well or be sure you understand. I’ll bring my stack mat timer (always do) so you can practice that bit as well before your official solves. If you want, that is...


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## pglewis (Jul 17, 2018)

Looking forward to you two meeting up! Just remember: POIDH


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## Mike Hughey (Jul 17, 2018)

pglewis said:


> Looking forward to you two meeting up! Just remember: POIDH


Agreed - I want to see pictures (or video!). I'm so sad I can't be in my old hometown for this. :-( (I've competed in several chess tournaments in Fredericksburg - many years ago - but never cubing.)


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## Old Tom (Jul 17, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> @Old Tom
> Think of it this way.... they give you 10 minutes to solve the 3x3. If you take all 10, then you’ll get 50 minutes of solving at the competition. That way you get your money’s worth!



That, plus 5x15 seconds of inspection. Deal!


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## Old Tom (Jul 17, 2018)

@Mike Hughey. Will watch. Thx.


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## Old Tom (Jul 17, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> Good point about the process. They usually have a new competitor tutorial in the morning, but I’ll be more than happy to explain it all to you as well or be sure you understand. I’ll bring my stack mat timer (always do) so you can practice that bit as well before your official solves. If you want, that is...



Don't bother bringing the timer. I will watch the videos. My best clocked times so far are only in low two minutes, so a couple extra seconds here or there won't matter. The main hitch is I may mess up when almost there and then lose tons of time recovering. 

Mainly, I am thinking clearly and enjoying it without the clock, but frazzled with it. That's a matter of practice, I'm sure.


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## Mike Hughey (Jul 17, 2018)

I'm sure he will bring his timer no matter what - I always bring mine so I can practice; I'm sure he's the same.

Do take advantage of a chance to practice with the timer. Those things can be finicky sometimes for a new user and it's good to practice using one for a bit before actually doing your official solves. Nothing more frustrating than having a good solve, only to find out you DNFed because of a timer problem.

It's really not that hard, so I hope I'm not scaring you by recommending that you practice - odds are it will go completely fine. But I've seen a number of new competitors (especially older competitors like us) get flustered by the hardware and lose their train of thought, so I'm trying to make sure you take advantage of the chance to practice if you can - it will likely make your day much more enjoyable, since you'll have confidence when you step up for your official solves. I just want to do all I can to make sure you have a great day!


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## pglewis (Jul 17, 2018)

Old Tom said:


> My best clocked times so far are only in low two minutes, so a couple extra seconds here or there won't matter.



Anything under 10 mins will make you #2 in the 80+ category in the oldies list, at your first comp. I thought that was the main advantage of making it as far as you have: no peer pressure . 

I agree with @Mike Hughey, practicing with the Stackmat just to be familiar with it. They're amazingly portable and fun anyway.


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## Mike Hughey (Jul 17, 2018)

pglewis said:


> Anything under 10 mins will make you #2 in the 80+ category in the oldies list, at your first comp.


Actually, won't it make him #3? There's Rune and Hideaki, both of whom had lots of experience solving even before their first official competition. Both, by the way, are well-known and respected members of the cubing community; Hideaki even has several successful BLD solves.


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## pglewis (Jul 17, 2018)

Mike Hughey said:


> Actually, won't it make him #3? There's Rune and Hideaki, both of whom had lots of experience solving even before their first official competition. Both, by the way, are well-known and respected members of the cubing community; Hideaki even has several successful BLD solves.



That's what I thought too, but double-checking it says Rune was 79 on his last official solve. Now that I think of it, he's probably one of those that haven't provided a DOB, so it may list him a year younger than actual at the time.


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## Mike Hughey (Jul 17, 2018)

pglewis said:


> That's what I thought too, but double-checking it says Rune was 79 on his last official solve. Now that I think of it, he's probably one of those that haven't provided a DOB, so it may list him a year younger than actual at the time.


Oh, oops - I forgot about that detail. You're right! So he would be #2.


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## openseas (Jul 17, 2018)

Old Tom said:


> That, plus 5x15 seconds of inspection. Deal!



Technically, you can use 16 seconds inspection if you don’t mind +2 penalty


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## pglewis (Jul 17, 2018)

Mike Hughey said:


> Oh, oops - I forgot about that detail. You're right! So he would be #2.



Though, I believe if Rune was actually 80 at the time it should be updated... that's a well deserved milestone.


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## Old Tom (Jul 17, 2018)

Mike Hughey said:


> Actually, won't it make him #3? There's Rune and Hideaki, both of whom had lots of experience solving even before their first official competition. Both, by the way, are well-known and respected members of the cubing community; Hideaki even has several successful BLD solves.



Oh, so much pressure! ;( Actually, pressure is still fun, even at my age.


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## SpartanSailor (Jul 17, 2018)

Mike Hughey said:


> I'm sure he will bring his timer no matter what - I always bring mine so I can practice; I'm sure he's the same.


Yep. I’ll bring it anyway. My son also likes to use it when he practices... It’s just part of the competition “kit” that we always grab on the way out the door.


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## Old Tom (Jul 17, 2018)

@SpartanSailor: Re the new competitor tutorial. I will probably skip that. As I told you all, I've been deaf (profoundly) since I was a kid. What I always do is bone up beforehand, that video will help. It has captions! The first version, the captions were in French! But I found an English version. All is good!

You did say you know a bit of sign language. That's a plus, but I may be able to lipread you also. All part of the adventure!


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## pglewis (Jul 17, 2018)

Really really wanted a successful 2/2 today: 

1/2, 15:02. Off by a 3-cycle on edges, I think I forgot to reverse an M slice alg
1/2, 13:58. Swapped a pair of edges on the M slice (deja vu) 
1/2, 18:40. Off by 3 cycle on edges


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## Old Tom (Jul 18, 2018)

@SpartanSailor: Question for you, or anyone. You mentioned grabbing a "competition kit." What sort of security is there for the competitors' stuff? Do you lug it around with you, or? I will just have two very nice Gan magnetic 3x3's, but would also like to bring along my old and VERY beat up 1981 cube, my only cube for 20 years, which may be of interest to you guys, plus my precious but sketchy notes, going back from then all the way to today.


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## mark49152 (Jul 18, 2018)

@Old Tom : I can't speak for US comps, but in the UK there is never any security. I have never come across any dishonesty either, and cubers seem generally decent people. The biggest risk is mixing up cubes, since there's a lot of them around and they tend to all look the same. I've had a few cubes wander afield or come home feeling slightly different (accidentally switched?) so I do prefer to put my cubes away when I'm not using them.


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## openseas (Jul 18, 2018)

mark49152 said:


> @Old Tom : I can't speak for US comps, but in the UK there is never any security. I have never come across any dishonesty either, and cubers seem generally decent people. The biggest risk is mixing up cubes, since there's a lot of them around and they tend to all look the same. I've had a few cubes wander afield or come home feeling slightly different (accidentally switched?) so I do prefer to put my cubes away when I'm not using them.



@Old Tom / Pretty much same here in US. Mixing & misplaced cubes are the most common reason you end up with someone else cube or vice versa. Not much to worry, cubers are kind and they only talk about cubes, solving cubes, not your ages. And just enjoy the comp!


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## SpartanSailor (Jul 18, 2018)

I have a small bag that I keep my stuff in. I find cubers to be pretty decent folks and haven’t ever had an issue. I usually toss in all my cubes for the day plus one or two more and my timer. Then we add snacks for my son and myself.

I DO think people will seek you out when they see that cube from 1981...That’s a relic!!


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## phreaker (Jul 18, 2018)

@OldTom A thought for you: There's an option in csTimer to disable the timer ticking in front of you on the screen. I found once I did that my "watching the timer" feelings started to go down.

The other thing that helped me adjust to the timer: Deleting my times, especially during warm-up. I know it isn't pure... but I want to know how I'm doing on a given day, and enjoy my practice. Not think "Darn, that messup of a G-perm cost me a PB AO5." Later I may stop caring... but for now. Meh. It's about having fun.


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## Old Tom (Jul 18, 2018)

phreaker said:


> @OldTom A thought for you: There's an option in csTimer to disable the timer ticking in front of you on the screen. I found once I did that my "watching the timer" feelings started to go down.
> 
> The other thing that helped me adjust to the timer: Deleting my times, especially during warm-up. I know it isn't pure... but I want to know how I'm doing on a given day, and enjoy my practice. Not think "Darn, that messup of a G-perm cost me a PB AO5." Later I may stop caring... but for now. Meh. It's about having fun.



Disabling the timer might really help, thanks for that idea. I will check at the site if it can be done. I have never used a Stackmat. I'm using a (BIG!) stopwatch display on my ipad.

Starting to get used to it though! A lot less anxiety today.


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## phreaker (Jul 18, 2018)

My updates:

BLD is moving along... slowly. Still need more practice, but my execution is there with M2/OP. Added edge flips recently, now I need to add corner twists, and then... I'll figure out the rest. 

Set my 4x4 PB recently on my Gan 460M. I can't say it is better than a Wuque M. I can say, I enjoy turning it more. There's something about the cube that just makes me want to solve it. It's special that way.

Shadow M: Set my 6x6 PB. (Which is really slow.) Once setup this cube will be really stupidly good. More thinking on lube needed for this one.

Huanglong M: ZOMG is this cube smooth. No really... it is smoother than that. It needs setup out of the box, the corner cutting OOTB is just... horrible. But it is so smooth and has magnets, so I want to forgive it. I can't for OH though, alas.

GTS 3: This cube needs some setup, but if you told me it would be my 3x3 main once done, I'd believe you. The ridges are a bit funky for OH, you have to reach around them, but once you are there, they do help grip for OH. No doubting that. For BLD, the magnets really inspire confidence that you are doing what you think you are doing.


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## phreaker (Jul 18, 2018)

Old Tom said:


> Disabling the timer might really help, thanks for that idea. I will check at the site if it can be done. I have never used a Stackmat. I'm using a (BIG!) stopwatch display on my ipad.
> 
> Starting to get used to it though! A lot less anxiety today.



At the site they can't... but part of training without a timer in your face is just getting used to "If I look, there's no information." so it becomes habit not to look. Seeing the word "solve" doesn't tell me how my splits are doing .


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## pglewis (Jul 18, 2018)

Less catastrophic failure on today's 5 cube attempt but only slightly. I made it through memo, finished execution on the third cube (cube 2), felt around to put it down and realized I somehow executed both cubes 1 & 2 on cube 1. Not quite a rage-quit but certainly an irritation-quit... to make it that far and fail in such a dumb way even when I thought I was being careful . I was cutting it close for execution time, ran into a trace mistake while reviewing and with extra review I was over 39 mins on memo. 

Cube 5 was off by a 3-cycle of edges. My execution on mbld the past 2 days (with three attempts at 2 cubes yesterday and ignoring the cube I executed two memos on): 7/7 corners, 3/7 edges. Yeah, I'll be spamming sighted edge execution a pair at a time until further notice. 

Every attempt is a good one: Memo felt easier than the first attempt and I had 100% confidence in retaining it. I was doing well on time until finding the trace mistake and that led to reviewing the others more closely than I would have / needed to. Rookie mistakes and execution are still the easiest things to fix despite the annoyance.



phreaker said:


> Huanglong M: ZOMG is this cube smooth. No really... it is smoother than that. It needs setup out of the box, the corner cutting OOTB is just... horrible. But it is so smooth and has magnets, so I want to forgive it. I can't for OH though, alas.



Agreed on the smooth feel, it's hard to put it into words. The GTS2 is really smooth too but the Huanglong has a unique feel. 



phreaker said:


> GTS 3: This cube needs some setup, but if you told me it would be my 3x3 main once done, I'd believe you. The ridges are a bit funky for OH, you have to reach around them, but once you are there, they do help grip for OH. No doubting that. For BLD, the magnets really inspire confidence that you are doing what you think you are doing.



So far nothing has dethroned the GTS2M for me since it came out but the GTS3M will, both for 3x3 and 3bld, unless some fatal flaw is revealed over time. Just a lovely puzzle.


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## h2f (Jul 19, 2018)

It looks like I've crossed sub-16 barrier globally. I did around 1000 4x4 solves in June. After last competition I'm back to Valk Power M stickerless and after around 500 solves suddenly all started looking simple: f2l is much easier, lookahead seems fine. I'm very glad.


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## 40yearstosolve (Jul 19, 2018)

F2L update... after two weeks (probably more judging by my last post on the subject) of shoehorning intuitive F2L into my solve and moving from the beginners method, I am now down from a stupid initial 15 minutes solve (lolz etc) then to 5 minutes and now just completed my first sub-2 minute. My average pre-F2L was somewhere around two and a half minutes, best was 1:38.

Thanks again for everyone’s insistence, persistence and pigheadedness in helping to motivate me to persevere.

Using F2L once it starts to become near-muscle memory you realise how few turns are required to solve.

I can almost get a sniff of what a ‘matter of seconds’ solver experiences. I am a long way off but have a small sense of what you mind goes through when solving in such a short period of time.

Let’s see when my next post is 

Hope everyone is well, cheers guys.


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## Old Tom (Jul 19, 2018)

40yearstosolve said:


> F2L update... after two weeks (probably more judging by my last post on the subject) of shoehorning intuitive F2L into my solve and moving from the beginners method, I am now down from a stupid initial 15 minutes solve (lolz etc) then to 5 minutes and now just completed my first sub-2 minute. My average pre-F2L was somewhere around two and a half minutes, best was 1:38.
> 
> Thanks again for everyone’s insistence, persistence and pigheadedness in helping to motivate me to persevere.
> 
> ...



Hey, great (and I was wondering where you had been). You seem to be about where I am right now with F2L, sub-2 on our best solves. Stick with it! I am still staying completely intuitive, but am seeing pieces and recognizing cases faster all the time. Was doing it untimed (I encourage that) until just this week, first competetion looming in two days! At this point I am still just systemizing and categorizing the cases, general strategies, etc., this is the fun part for me, reluctant to move on to the work part. After the comp I ought to start drill work, develop finger memory. I have my algs written down (almost all my own), but am leaving the execution memory to my fingers. 

I suspect the big step will be look-ahead, but will first have to get more automatic with the sequence-at-hand.


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## newtonbase (Jul 19, 2018)

First 4BLD attempt since 5th June. Very slow but got a success. I was pretty surprised to find it solved. 

Good luck to everyone at the Euros.


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## 40yearstosolve (Jul 19, 2018)

Old Tom said:


> Hey, great (and I was wondering where you had been). You seem to be about where I am right now with F2L, sub-2 on our best solves. Stick with it! I am still staying completely intuitive, but am seeing pieces and recognizing cases faster all the time. Was doing it untimed (I encourage that) until just this week, first competetion looming in two days! At this point I am still just systemizing and categorizing the cases, general strategies, etc., this is the fun part for me, reluctant to move on to the work part. After the comp I ought to start drill work, develop finger memory. I have my algs written down (almost all my own), but am leaving the execution memory to my fingers.
> 
> I suspect the big step will be look-ahead, but will first have to get more automatic with the sequence-at-hand.



Excellent, good luck in the comp.

In F2L I don’t use any algs. Should I be doing?


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## 40yearstosolve (Jul 19, 2018)

Old Tom said:


> Hey, great (and I was wondering where you had been). You seem to be about where I am right now with F2L, sub-2 on our best solves. Stick with it! I am still staying completely intuitive, but am seeing pieces and recognizing cases faster all the time. Was doing it untimed (I encourage that) until just this week, first competetion looming in two days! At this point I am still just systemizing and categorizing the cases, general strategies, etc., this is the fun part for me, reluctant to move on to the work part. After the comp I ought to start drill work, develop finger memory. I have my algs written down (almost all my own), but am leaving the execution memory to my fingers.
> 
> I suspect the big step will be look-ahead, but will first have to get more automatic with the sequence-at-hand.



Also, what do you mean that you will move onto the “work part”?

I’ve done no strategies (or algs like I said) or fingers movements. I’m just crunching the cube repeatedly.


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## Old Tom (Jul 19, 2018)

40yearstosolve said:


> Also, what do you mean that you will move onto the “work part”?
> 
> I’ve done no strategies (or algs like I said) or fingers movements. I’m just crunching the cube repeatedly.



Work Part?

This is just my own plan, nobody has told me to do this. But:

I categorize F2L cases (situations), such as: the pair is joined up on the U face, there are I think six such situations, including the one ready to be inserted. Break them into: where is the white sticker? Further break into: are the other two colors on same face, or not?

Notice that there is, usually, a general approach to solving each sub case. Will leave that to you, better if left to you. I have started to draw rough cube sketches, and written my algs for reference, but not memorized them, and don't plan to.

Now, the work: manually create each of those cases on the cube, then drill: solve (just that pair, not the whole cube), restore, solve, restore, solve.... How many? I dunno, likely different for each person.

Then on to the next case. This is work! Basically, drill. And the results may not stick right away.

If others, all you experts, have better ways, or additional ways, would like to know. You could just keep on crunching, but I think it will be much faster if you systematize and drill.
​


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## phreaker (Jul 19, 2018)

Old Tom said:


> Work Part?
> 
> This is just my own plan, nobody has told me to do this. But:
> 
> ...



Have you seen videos on intuitive F2L? I learned from RiDO's hunting story, 2 part video.






Really, there's 3 cases total. Everything else is learning how to setup those cases. Try it out. 

There's no doubt algorithmic F2L is better for hard cases, but for easy cases, there's no reason to learn it. Same as for BLD, you don't learn all the setup moves.. you learn how setup moves work, and then they make sense, then become muscle memory.

I still use the basics from RiDOs when I solve with ZZ One Handed today. And yes, the video is insanely cheesy. But it works.

I've heard good things about JPerm's video also: 




Watching it, it looks pretty good... between them.. you should be F2L'n in no time flat .

Good luck!


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## Old Tom (Jul 19, 2018)

phreaker said:


> Have you seen videos on intuitive F2L? I learned from RiDO's hunting story, 2 part video.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Yes, three main cases. And yes, it's all about converging on those cases. I'm doing that, definitely.

But, I'm subcategorizing the situation before that, thirty-plus cases, breaking them into types, and have noticed that there are common and intuitive paths within those types to get to the main three. That's what I'm working on now, recognizing them quickly and then (next step in plan) drilling to execute them quickly.

Hard cases, well yes, but at my level, not so much hard as long. I still do these cases intuitively, about 12 HMs or so. If I rote-memorize shorter but non-intuitive algs, I will save, what, maybe three or four HMs. I may get to where that's important, but not yet.

Videos are frustrating for me. I'm deaf, and most are not captioned, or are captioned poorly. Even when captioned well, I have to chose where to put my visual and mental energy: reading the captions, or watching the video, it all goes too fast to do both. Books and internet postings with text and diagrams are better for me. But thanks anyway.


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## phreaker (Jul 19, 2018)

Old Tom said:


> Yes, three main cases. And yes, it's all about converging on those cases. I'm doing that, definitely.
> 
> But, I'm subcategorizing the situation before that, thirty-plus cases, breaking them into types, and have noticed that there are common and intuitive paths within those types to get to the main three. That's what I'm working on now, recognizing them quickly and then (next step in plan) drilling to execute them quickly.
> 
> Hard cases, well yes, but at my level, not so much hard as long. I still do these cases intuitively, about 12 HMs or so. If I rote-memorize shorter but non-intuitive algs, I will save, what, maybe three or four HMs. I may get to where that's important, but not yet.



Man... I can't imagine what will happen when/if you take up blind solving... you've got the right attitude.

As far as hard cases go... I think the best advice I've seen: When you see you are about to create a hard case, make an extra move to avoid it. I've been trying to implement that, more and more recently.


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## newtonbase (Jul 19, 2018)

phreaker said:


> Man... I can't imagine what will happen when/if you take up blind solving... you've got the right attitude.


I've thought the same. Might be worth going straight to comms.


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## Old Tom (Jul 19, 2018)

newtonbase said:


> I've thought the same. Might be worth going straight to comms.



I am interested. However, here's a scenario: I'm doing a blind in a comp. Totally deaf. Great advantage I admit, complete concentration (it really does help). Fire alarm goes off and everyone (except me) runs out of the building. Not so far-fetched. I worked in a chemistry lab and the firemen burst in and said, "What are you doing here!!!" I had been alone in a restroom and walked out into an (almost) empty building.

Won't stop me though. I am used to stuff like that. Let me get to a decent 3x3 first, and then we will see.


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## phreaker (Jul 19, 2018)

Old Tom said:


> I am interested. However, here's a scenario: I'm doing a blind in a comp. Totally deaf. Great advantage I admit, complete concentration (it really does help). Fire alarm goes off and everyone (except me) runs out of the building. Not so far-fetched. I worked in a chemistry lab and the firemen burst in and said, "What are you doing here!!!" I had been alone in a restroom and walked out into an (almost) empty building.
> 
> Won't stop me though. I am used to stuff like that. Let me get to a decent 3x3 first, and then we will see.



Honestly, normal solving and BLD have almost nothing to do with each other. Once you understand how the pieces move around the cube (beginners F2L), you can take on BLD. For me, it is all about being able to visualize what the pieces I care abut will do when I execute moves. And that's not really a skill I see as much on sighted 3x3.

When you get Sub 1... Find the BLD solvers here. I'm crap at it, but the guys here inspire me to keep trying to be less crap. .


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## Old Tom (Jul 19, 2018)

phreaker said:


> Honestly, normal solving and BLD have almost nothing to do with each other. Once you understand how the pieces move around the cube (beginners F2L), you can take on BLD. For me, it is all about being able to visualize what the pieces I care abut will do when I execute moves. And that's not really a skill I see as much on sighted 3x3.
> 
> When you get Sub 1... Find the BLD solvers here. I'm crap at it, but the guys here inspire me to keep trying to be less crap. .



Gotcha. I will be meeting @SpartanSailor this Sat at a comp. just not sure if I want to commit. I already throw a lot of time into teaching bridge, running a club game, and playing in tournaments. My lady friend may complain!


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## phreaker (Jul 19, 2018)

My notes of last night:

2 successes in a row in one night at BLD. For me, that's a record. It is often hard for me to back to back solves because I haven't figured out the equivalent to roman rooms for audio, and I still use pure audio memo.

Alas, I popped my new 6x6... Now I get to clean it, lube it, and tension it, properly. Finding all the pieces as they sprayed across the living room mildly amused and annoyed my wife. (She takes such things in stride.) If anyone has a good video on how to tension cubes I'd love to see it. I can't tension them worth a darn, this is part of why I like Gan cubes, they are so easy to tension .

Time to do the setup on my GTS3. It is in pieces next to me, and it has tensioning tools... I'll see how well they work.


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## Selkie (Jul 19, 2018)

Wow so, so much to catch up on the thread. I keep promising to keep active but it appears I have been failing miserably at that. Great to see so much activity and by the new members too. Hope you are gaining as much help and inspiration from the thread that I have over the years.

Whilst I have not been active on SS, I have been very active in a cubing sense. Quite a lot of practice but WCA treasurer duties have been taking up a lot of my free time. Quite a few PBs of late namely:-

3x3 ao5: 12.06s (no film)
4x4 ao5: 53.07s (on film)
5x5 ao5: 1:37.89 (no film)
6x6 mo3: 2:58.69 (no film)

and this 13.59s 3x3 Ao12 about an hour ago



Spoiler



Average of 12: 13.59
1. 13.09 F' D2 R2 U' R U R' L' D2 B' R2 F' B2 R2 U2 D2 F L2 D2 
2. 15.07 F2 D' F2 R2 F2 D2 B2 D B2 R2 D B U R' D B' U F' R2 U R 
3. 12.88 L2 B2 D2 F2 R2 U B2 F2 U2 R2 D2 B' D B2 L2 U R' B' L' D' R' 
4. (10.97) D L2 D L2 U' R2 U' B2 L2 B2 U' F U R B' F' L' U2 L' R D' 
5. (17.69) R' D2 L' D F2 L2 B L' F' D' B' U2 D2 L2 D2 F' U2 B L2 F2 
6. 13.34 B' L2 F2 R2 D2 F U2 F L2 U2 B2 D F2 R B' F U' R2 D B' F 
7. 14.10 F2 R2 F2 U2 B' U2 B R2 D2 B2 D2 L' B' L F' D' L' F R' D' U' 
8. 12.85 D' F2 L2 D' R2 B2 F2 U' F2 D2 B' F2 L U2 F D2 L' D U R' B 
9. 14.92 D' B U' B2 D' B' R' D L' B2 U' R2 L2 D' R2 U L2 D B2 U2 
10. 13.49 F2 D2 L U2 R D2 R B2 F2 L2 U2 F' L D B L2 F' D' L2 U B' 
11. 12.65 R2 D2 F' L2 B F2 D2 R2 B2 L2 F' L R2 D' L' F R' B2 R' U2 F' 
12. 13.53 F2 U2 L2 D' L2 U2 B2 F2 D' F2 U2 B D' L' F' U L2 D R2 B R








Having lost to Ron van Bruchem in a friendly race to sub 1:40 on 5x5, I appear to have accepted a race to sub 12 at 3x3, hence all the practice. Might have bitten off more than I can chew here!


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## phreaker (Jul 19, 2018)

Old Tom said:


> Gotcha. I will be meeting @SpartanSailor this Sat at a comp. just not sure if I want to commit. I already throw a lot of time into teaching bridge, running a club game, and playing in tournaments. My lady friend may complain!



How far away do you play in tournaments... for all I know we've played against each other.


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## pglewis (Jul 19, 2018)

40yearstosolve said:


> I can almost get a sniff of what a ‘matter of seconds’ solver experiences.



Congrats on your milestone, I know you've put a lot of work into learning and practice to get there! It took me a couple months to get sub 2 mins and that was also about the point where I started to see how a much faster solve might happen even though I had a long way to go. With four pairs, every second you save per F2L pair on average will be multiplied by 4. I suggest recording a typical solve and watching it back, no one but you needs to ever see it . It should show you that you don't have to rush or turn faster to make big improvements, just cutting down on the length of pauses where you're not turning.



Old Tom said:


> Notice that there is, usually, a general approach to solving each sub case. Will leave that to you, better if left to you. I have started to draw rough cube sketches, and written my algs for reference, but not memorized them, and don't plan to.
> 
> Now, the work: manually create each of those cases on the cube, then drill: solve (just that pair, not the whole cube), restore, solve, restore, solve



I've been through this process with F2L about 3 or 4 times now, each time working on more specific cases and generalizing less. Now I'm digging into being more efficient specifically when taking a piece out of an incorrect slot. I'll probably still be working on that for months to come.



Old Tom said:


> I suspect the big step will be look-ahead, but will first have to get more automatic with the sequence-at-hand.



Since you already plan to drill your cases and sub-cases I suggest adding a drill to practice solving those without looking. If you're comfortable doing that then you can be scanning for what else is out there instead of following the pair all the way into the slot.

[Edit to add: lookahead is still an elusive fairy that arrives when it wants to, I have little command over it sometimes. It's often the difference between a 20.x solve and a 27.x solve for me. When it's clicking it's kind of a misnomer because I'm not "looking" for anything, I just magically see stuff.]


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## pglewis (Jul 19, 2018)

Selkie said:


> Wow so, so much to catch up on the thread. I keep promising to keep active but it appears I have been failing miserably at that. Great to see so much activity and by the new members too. Hope you are gaining as much help and inspiration from the thread that I have over the years.
> 
> Whilst I have not been active on SS, I have been very active in a cubing sense. Quite a lot of practice but WCA treasurer duties have been taking up a lot of my free time. Quite a few PBs of late namely:-
> 
> ...



... when a 17 produces a sigh instead of a fist-pump . Also, I repeatedly forgot you solve green top and had brief panics that you'd messed up the cross. 

Great to see you check in and nicely done on the bag full of recent PBs.


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## newtonbase (Jul 19, 2018)

pglewis said:


> lookahead is still an elusive fairy that arrives when it wants to,


Over 4 years and I still can't find pieces, never mind look ahead. I've always been appalling at finding things. This is one of the reasons I like blind. You don't have to find pieces, you just have to identify them.
Interesting blind session at lunch. Very high success rate but all really slow other than my very first attempt at 1:13 which was pretty safe but only 2s off PB.
@Old Tom You may need to practice blind outdoors!


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## Old Tom (Jul 19, 2018)

@phreaker: Bridge tourneys as far south as Raleigh, North once to the Philly Nationals, but mostly in the Richmond, Williamsburg, Va Beach locales. My tournament play this year is down because my long-time pard has health problems.


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## Old Tom (Jul 19, 2018)

newtonbase said:


> @Old Tom You may need to practice blind outdoors!



Or maybe not. Where I live there are reports of a bear wandering around.


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## newtonbase (Jul 19, 2018)

Old Tom said:


> Or maybe not. Where I live there are reports of a bear wandering around.


Bears or fire. Tough call. Blind's still worth the risk.


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## Mike Hughey (Jul 19, 2018)

For a fire, the judge really SHOULD take the time to tap you on the shoulder and stop you before running out of the building. So I think fire is the safer thing to risk here. Then again, with some of the judges you get sometimes... 

And don't worry about the solve if that happens. If they're actually seriously discussing the possibility of giving an extra solve for distraction due to a world record celebration, they CERTAINLY ought to give an extra solve for a fire. (Somehow the thought of losing the extra attempt seems almost scarier than the fire to me.)


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## pglewis (Jul 19, 2018)

newtonbase said:


> Bears or fire. Tough call. Blind's still worth the risk.



And sometimes we've thought _the timer_ could be a source of pressure...


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## Old Tom (Jul 19, 2018)

pglewis said:


> And sometimes we've thought _the timer_ could be a source of pressure...



You guys are too funny! I'm gonna show up relaxed. Not many bears in Fredericksburg.


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## newtonbase (Jul 20, 2018)

Mike Hughey said:


> For a fire, the judge really SHOULD take the time to tap you on the shoulder and stop you before running out of the building. So I think fire is the safer thing to risk here. Then again, with some of the judges you get sometimes...
> 
> And don't worry about the solve if that happens. If they're actually seriously discussing the possibility of giving an extra solve for distraction due to a world record celebration, they CERTAINLY ought to give an extra solve for a fire. (Somehow the thought of losing the extra attempt seems almost scarier than the fire to me.)


I agree that a fire during an official attempt shouldn't be a worry. It's the hundreds of practice solves it takes to get there that might leave one at risk of combustion(or bear attack)..


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## mark49152 (Jul 20, 2018)

Fantastic achievement by one of our fellow oldies. UK National Record for FMC single, with 20 moves! Ranked 5= in the world. Congratulations @bubbagrub 

http://m.cubecomps.com/competitions/3000/events/15/rounds/1/results


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## Selkie (Jul 20, 2018)

Yes @mark49152 a serious achievement by one of the thread. Awesome result @bubbagrub


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## h2f (Jul 20, 2018)

I just seen it on cubcomps. Congrats Ben @bubbagrub.


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## bubbagrub (Jul 20, 2018)

h2f said:


> I just seen it on cubcomps. Congrats Ben @bubbagrub.


Thanks guys! I really can still hardly believe it.


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## pglewis (Jul 20, 2018)

mark49152 said:


> Fantastic achievement by one of our fellow oldies. UK National Record for FMC single, with 20 moves! Ranked 5= in the world. Congratulations @bubbagrub
> 
> http://m.cubecomps.com/competitions/3000/events/15/rounds/1/results



Just... wow!


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## newtonbase (Jul 20, 2018)

I presume that's an over 40s WR too.


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## pglewis (Jul 20, 2018)

Cubecomps shows someone else getting a 20 on the same FMC scramble. I went through the regs to see what the tie-breaker is but couldn't find anything, how do they decide?


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## Mike Hughey (Jul 20, 2018)

No tiebreaker - it's a tie.

For means of 3, the tiebreaker is best single. But no tiebreakers exist for same single number of moves - they just remain a tie.

I know this from having had the experience of having to deal with this at my own competitions with trophies/medals - you need a backup or two (or maybe several), especially for FMC because of this - ties are common.


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## pglewis (Jul 20, 2018)

Mike Hughey said:


> No tiebreaker - it's a tie.
> 
> For means of 3, the tiebreaker is best single. But no tiebreakers exist for same single number of moves - they just remain a tie.
> 
> I know this from having had the experience of having to deal with this at my own competitions with trophies/medals - you need a backup or two (or maybe several), especially for FMC because of this - ties are common.



That makes total sense, I was just thrown off because Cubecomps marked @bubbagrub's single as an NR but not the other one. That must just be a glitch in their algorithm.


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## newtonbase (Jul 20, 2018)

pglewis said:


> That makes total sense, I was just thrown off because Cubecomps marked @bubbagrub's single as an NR but not the other one. That must just be a glitch in their algorithm.


The other 20 isn't a NR. The guy who got it already has a 19.


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## bubbagrub (Jul 20, 2018)

pglewis said:


> That makes total sense, I was just thrown off because Cubecomps marked @bubbagrub's single as an NR but not the other one. That must just be a glitch in their algorithm.


Ah, no... that's just because Marcel's result was not NR -- he already has WR (19), so his 20 was not NR.


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## Old Tom (Jul 20, 2018)

bubbagrub said:


> Ah, no... that's just because Marcel's result was not NR -- he already has WR (19), so his 20 was not NR.



A tie with the WR holder! Now that's a good tie.


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## pglewis (Jul 21, 2018)

mbld today: 2/5, 44:47 (31:43 / 13:04). One was only off by two flipped edges. No major dumb procedural errors, memo held, time was good, and I didn't really start to feel the mental fatigue until late in execution. Not sure if I feel ready for six yet but I'm considering it.

Postmortem edit: cube 3 was off by two flipped edges because I memo'ed O despite looking at V. Since I was looking at the correct spot it only screwed up that next piece along with it and things got back on track. That's a rare type of error and I really should have caught it in review, should have been 3/5.


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## openseas (Jul 21, 2018)

@bubbagrub / Wow, amazing, congrats!!!

FMC is in my to do list but after finishing 3BLD comms....


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## h2f (Jul 21, 2018)

pglewis said:


> That makes total sense, I was just thrown off because Cubecomps marked @bubbagrub's single as an NR but not the other one. That must just be a glitch in their algorithm.



Marcel Peters is from Germany. 

@bubbagrub what was your solve? Can you just describe? Niss, inverse, insertions or something?

Nevermind - got it on FB. Thanks. 

Great job. It looks so simple. Was it Marcel's the same?


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## SpartanSailor (Jul 21, 2018)

Old Tom said:


> @SpartanSailor: Re the new competitor tutorial. I will probably skip that. As I told you all, I've been deaf (profoundly) since I was a kid. What I always do is bone up beforehand, that video will help. It has captions! The first version, the captions were in French! But I found an English version. All is good!
> 
> You did say you know a bit of sign language. That's a plus, but I may be able to lipread you also. All part of the adventure!


I do know enough sign to “get by” and will happily go over the new competitor material with you before today’s events. 

The go over the judging stuff too. It will only take a few moments and 1-on-1 is better so you can ask questions easier. 

We will be hitting the road in about an hour. Expect to be there around 8a, or a little earlier. See you soon, @Old Tom


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## SpartanSailor (Jul 21, 2018)

I’ve been pretty busy lately, but have enjoyed keeping up with the discussion.

@pglewis great work in the MBLD area. Wow! I’m impressed at how quickly you are getting it.

@bubbagrub CONGRATS! I was watching some of that comp on live stream yesterday morning—although the didn’t livestream the FMC or BLD events. 

@Old Tom see you in a couple hours—looking forward to meeting and seeing that original Rubik’s cube from the 80s!

I’ll be at Fredericksburg, VA, for their competition today. The comp is hosting all the cubes sizes... 2-7... and nothing else. Looks like a relatively small comp. Something like 73 registered competitiors. I signed up for 2-6.... the 6x6 limit is 7:00. I’ve been in the mid-to-low 6s this week, but if anything goes wrong it becomes a 8+ real easily. I’m hoping to get my 1 attempt under 7 for an official single. The cutoff is like 4:30.... not a chance. Other than that, should be a fun day. 

I’ll keep y’all posted... and try to remember that picture/video... to prove it all happened. LOL


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## Old Tom (Jul 21, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> I do know enough sign to “get by” and will happily go over the new competitor material with you before today’s events.
> 
> The go over the judging stuff too. It will only take a few moments and 1-on-1 is better so you can ask questions easier.
> 
> We will be hitting the road in about an hour. Expect to be there around 8a, or a little earlier. See you soon, @Old Tom



I am supposed to judge the first group of 3x3, and the 6x6 also, so a quick 1 on 1 about judging will help a lot. I am solving in 4th group of 3x3. I have no quslms about judging, just need to know a few things.


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## SpartanSailor (Jul 21, 2018)

Old Tom said:


> I am supposed to judge the first group of 3x3, and the 6x6 also, so a quick 1 on 1 about judging will help a lot. I am solving in 4th group of 3x3. I have no quslms about judging, just need to know a few things.


Judging is easy... and yes, I’ll show you what to do. It’s the same for 6x6 as it is for 3x3.

My son is competition in the first group of 3x3 and I’m judging the 4th. Maybe I’ll end up your judge for one of your attempts!


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## newtonbase (Jul 21, 2018)

Good luck to everyone competing today especially @Old Tom in your first comp.


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## Mike Hughey (Jul 21, 2018)

@Old Tom congratulations on your average! I see you had one DNF - especially commendable to be able to come back from that and still get the average!


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## pglewis (Jul 21, 2018)

Mike Hughey said:


> @Old Tom congratulations on your average! I see you had one DNF - especially commendable to be able to come back from that and still get the average!



I just looked it up, too. Congrats Tom, nicely done!


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## newtonbase (Jul 21, 2018)

Well done @Old Tom


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## pglewis (Jul 21, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> I’m impressed at how quickly you are getting it.



I'm just discovering what everyone here has been saying: it's a surprisingly small jump from 3 to 6. Beyond 6 I'll have to deal more with time management, but if the pace I have is good for retention for 3 then it's good for 6. A week and a half ago I wouldn't have believed it so readily. 

I'll still probably only attempt 3 or 4 officially since that's just a couple weeks away and I'd like to stick with what I think I can hit 100% and max on points. But that's just because more cubes increases the chances of a tracing or execution mistake for me right now, not because of memo or time crunch.


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## bubbagrub (Jul 21, 2018)

Great work, Tom! Were you pleased with the times? I can't remember what you were aiming for...


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## SpartanSailor (Jul 21, 2018)

Good morning in Virginia meeting @Old Tom ! He did great for his first time ever going to a competition and he probably doesn’t realise how many people were watching him—all the staff and comp organizers were coming up behind him to see easily the oldest competitor compete today! So, thanks, Tom, for making me be one of the “young kids” today!

I’ll have to figure out how to post a couple pictures later... My day isn’t done yet, but I DID get a shocking 58.55 single for 4x4! Not only does that blow my previous, that’s the first time I’ve ever gone sub-1. My day has been made at this point no matter what. And I made the 3x3 second round so I get a second chance to come up with something good there.


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## bubbagrub (Jul 21, 2018)

h2f said:


> Marcel Peters is from Germany.
> 
> @bubbagrub what was your solve? Can you just describe? Niss, inverse, insertions or something?
> 
> ...



Thank you! Yes, apparently Marcel's was the same apart from a couple of moves the other way around (R L2 instead of L2 R).


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## Old Tom (Jul 21, 2018)

Mike Hughey said:


> @Old Tom congratulations on your average! I see you had one DNF - especially commendable to be able to come back from that and still get the average!



Thx! Will post more detail (and pic) later. Yes, on 2nd solve I was running into pblms and got really frazzled and brain turned to mush - exactly what I had feared. Clock already showed 8:30 by that point, and I was still in F2L and had lost my cross once again. Arghhh! I abandoned the solve, managed to compose myself (some) and then posted my best: 2:30. And avoided another DNF, so all was well. Or sorta. More later, comp is not over and want to see how @SpartanSailor does.


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## Old Tom (Jul 21, 2018)

bubbagrub said:


> Great work, Tom! Were you pleased with the times? I can't remember what you were aiming for...



Times were within my expectations. I'm really new to F2L, at home, I'm quite relaxed with it, but not today, had to fight myself and my nerves a lot. Plus, my LL method is inherently slow. I know what to do about that. This includes a mental shift from "easiest solve" to "fastest solve." You guys are ruining my fun of the last 37 years!


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## SpartanSailor (Jul 21, 2018)

So... the highlight was meeting Tom today. Very nice to meet you and I hope to see you around some more competitions. 

2x2: as per usual... good warmup and blow it during comp. 

3x3: got to the second round, but just blew it there too. Averaged my 3rd worst ever. That threw me off and had me bummed. I tried to put it past me, but... 

6x6: I knew I couldn’t make the cutoff for a mean. All I needed to do was have a clean solve to get a single under the limit. That was a bomb too. Kept mixing up my centres and having to do them over. Timed out DNF. Super frustrating. 

4x4: overall bad. But crushed an overall PB of 58.55 and got my first ever sub-1 and it was in a comp. that was awesome. 

5x5: got two singles and a PB single on the second attempt as well. 

I’ll call it a success, but as much as I practice 3x3... I think I’m going to take a 3x3 break and just focus on my 3BLD. 

Here is @Old Tom and me with his original 1981 cube.


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## Old Tom (Jul 21, 2018)

@SpartanSailor, congrats on the sub-1 4x4!

And thanks so much for the help and encouragement, including instructions on how to be a judge, I took my turn there with no problem, and actually was judge for your son on one solve. Guys, @SpartanSailor knows sign language really well, and that really helped me today.

That pic of the old 1981 cube (Rubik's brand): I used nothing but that one for 20 years, has never been lubed. Became incredibly "locky", to the point that when I couldn't make a half turn, I would go three times around the other way. I absolutely was not timing myself in those days, and no wonder. That particular cube has blue on the reverse side from white; I've read that was common.


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## pglewis (Jul 21, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> 4x4: overall bad. But crushed an overall PB of 58.55 and got my first ever sub-1 and it was in a comp. that was awesome.



Whoa ! Nice single indeed, sir. 



Old Tom said:


> You guys are ruining my fun of the last 37 years!



I realize this is probably mostly in jest, in which case disregard, but just in case: always choose fun over fast if the two conflict. 



Old Tom said:


> That particular cube has blue on the revese side from white; I've read that was common.



I was going to ask about that, looked like it might be that scheme. I think that is referred to as the Japanese color scheme nowadays but it was a lot more common in the 80s.


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## Mike Hughey (Jul 21, 2018)

I have two 80s cubes exactly like that - locky and all! Same color scheme. I bought them in Williamsburg VA, not too far from there.


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## Old Tom (Jul 21, 2018)

So, thoughts on my first competition:

Would I do it again? Alas, yes.

Especially if it is an occasion of meeting you guys. First, I want to cut a minute or so off my times, that might happen soon enough, we will see. I set the bar really low. (Or, the times really high.)

@40yearstosolve: I did it. Now your turn.


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## SpartanSailor (Jul 21, 2018)

pglewis said:


> I realize this is probably mostly in jest, in which case disregard, but just in case: always choose fun over fast if the two conflict.


Agreed. Fun >> fast


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## SpartanSailor (Jul 21, 2018)

Got one of @Old Tom in action...


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## Old Tom (Jul 22, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> Got one of @Old Tom in action...



I really like that pic, because (1) it is a PTPIH, and (2) it shows all the empty seats behind me, because all the others in my group were long gone! It also shows me to seem far more serene than I actually was.


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## Mike Hughey (Jul 22, 2018)

Old Tom said:


> I really like that pic, because (1) it is a PTPIH, and (2) it shows all the empty seats behind me, because all the others in my group were long gone! It also shows me to seem far more serene than I actually was.



1. Sorry - what is PTPIH?
2. Yeah, I checked the cubecomps site, probably about this time, and I was worried because everyone had a time entered there except you - I was afraid you hadn't managed to get there or something. I was really happy to check a few minutes later and find your times!


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## Old Tom (Jul 22, 2018)

Mike Hughey said:


> 1. Sorry - what is PTPIH?
> 2. Yeah, I checked the cubecomps site, probably about this time, and I was worried because everyone had a time entered there except you - I was afraid you hadn't managed to get there or something. I was really happy to check a few minutes later and find your times!



PTPIH = Pic That Proves It Happened (I made that up).


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## Old Tom (Jul 22, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> Agreed. Fun >> fast



When I complained to my disseration advisor in grad school that I was tired, he replied, "Tired is happy." Best thing he ever taught me.


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## Bobby Mapp (Jul 22, 2018)

Old Tom said:


> Thx! Will post more detail (and pic) later. Yes, on 2nd solve I was running into pblms and got really frazzled and brain turned to mush - exactly what I had feared. Clock already showed 8:30 by that point, and I was still in F2L and had lost my cross once again. Arghhh! I abandoned the solve, managed to compose myself (some) and then posted my best: 2:30. And avoided another DNF, so all was well. Or sorta. More later, comp is not over and want to see how @SpartanSailor does.


Hi there @Old Tom , I was your judge for the DNF. I was rooting for you, and I'm glad to see you that you completed an average after that mishap. After your solves you came by to chat with me for a moment, and I just wanted to let you know it was an awesome privilege to meet you!


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## h2f (Jul 22, 2018)

bubbagrub said:


> Great work, Tom! Were you pleased with the times? I can't remember what you were aiming for...



Have you been a judge in Cantin's 19.84?


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## bubbagrub (Jul 22, 2018)

h2f said:


> Have you been a judge in Cantin's 19.84?


Ah, no... That's @Shaky Hands


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## h2f (Jul 22, 2018)

bubbagrub said:


> Ah, no... That's @Shaky Hands



 Thanks. Ha!


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## SpartanSailor (Jul 22, 2018)

Bobby Mapp said:


> Hi there @Old Tom , I was your judge for the DNF. I was rooting for you, and I'm glad to see you that you completed an average after that mishap. After your solves you came by to chat with me for a moment, and I just wanted to let you know it was an awesome privilege to meet you!


@Bobby Mapp !! Glad you dropped by! 

Guys... Bobby and his son are like the dynamic duo of Cubing in the local area. Both are fast and at nearly every event.


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## Old Tom (Jul 22, 2018)

Bobby Mapp said:


> Hi there @Old Tom , I was your judge for the DNF. I was rooting for you, and I'm glad to see you that you completed an average after that mishap. After your solves you came by to chat with me for a moment, and I just wanted to let you know it was an awesome privilege to meet you!



Thanks for those kind words. I was only in the comp because the guys here egged me on. But I'm now glad I did it. I am very happy that I was able recover from that DNF moment, it could have gone the other way and turned into a real bummer. One of the things I learned from yesterday is that every cuber is rooting for each other, a great atmosphere. This is a lot different from the bridge tourneys, which is head-to-head and so a zero sum game.


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## SpartanSailor (Jul 22, 2018)

So true about every cheering for everyone. It’s fun to see other people do well... Even if I wanted to “beat” someone, I would be thrilled to see them do well. When it comes right down to it, my focus (and probably most others as well) is to do my personal best or have a “good solve” where everything goes well with limited or no major errors. If that happens, it doesn’t matter what the time was or what others are doing.


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## openseas (Jul 22, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> Got one of @Old Tom in action...



What a lovely pic!
No wonder everyone was watching him solving!

We’ve finished a local comp, too.
I didn’t do triple DNF thing, 2 weeks in a row even with a major distraction in my final 3BLD, couldn’t focus on.... due to my son’s another 3BLD Pb, everbody was wowing  Still managed the last solve completed. I was so distracted, even forgot to wear my blindfold... after finishing memo, about to donn my blindfold but only realized that it was on the table. Grabbed the blindfold, laughing, (so was the judge), lost more than couple of seconds, lol...

For MBLD, I decided not to go full mode when I run a comp, last couple of time when I did, the impact was quite big in terms of the schedule. Instead, Jeff and Indecided to do a stackmat race against each other - him 9 vs mine 3 - who can finish within 10 min.. both failed but he was more close.

Next week is US Nats, any one coming? Hope to see some of you folks there, or meet new oldies


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## SpartanSailor (Jul 22, 2018)

openseas said:


> Next week is US Nats, any one coming? Hope to see some of you folks there, or meet new oldies


We aren’t making it to US Nats this year... bad timing with our move last month and getting to Utah was just a tad too pricey this year. 

We went last year and had a great time—I only competed in 3x3. But hopefully for 2019 we can return and get a few additional events. And unless they change the qualifying times by a large margin, I should be able to make it for 3BLD in 2019 as well.


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## mafergut (Jul 22, 2018)

Hi guys! Lot's of catching up. Like 30 pages or so since I last checked. Sorry but life/work and my youtube channel are taking a lot of time lately.

First of all, congrats @bubbagrub for your NR. That's really impressive performance.

Also, after several months with almost no practice due to my injured left thumb (probably due to cubing, in my doctor's opinion) I decided to go to Euro anyway and competed in 3x3. My first ever competition. I saw you there, @bubbagrub, judging a lot of events but I was just there on Saturday (yesterday) and I tried to find you and @Shaky Hands to say hello, even asked @moralsh about you but in the end I had to go and couldn't meet you guys! Very, very sorry about that.

Regarding my experience for the 1st time in a competition it was incredible. Lots of nerves but a very good result, given the circumstances of 1st comp + no practice for several months. Got a 19.91 Ao5 with an 18.51 best single and I'm more than happy with both results. Started well with an 18.8x, got nervous and completely spoiled the 2nd solve (30.xx) so I decided to turn slow, got two 20.xx solves and finished in good shape with that 18.51.

I'm not gonna rank up high in the over 40 ranking but I will tell you when the results are posted and I'm assigned my WCA ID. For now you can check my result here:
https://cubecomps.cubing.net/live.php?cid=3000&compid=436

Not sure when or even if I'll ever go to a comp again. I'm not practising speed any more currently and more into other non-WCA puzzles and my youtube channel. Also, my doctor is against me practising, as my left thumb is not recovered and my tendonitis is been there for more than 4 months now with no sign of leaving me.

Will try to come back more frequently from now on, though. See ya!


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## Mike Hughey (Jul 22, 2018)

@mafergut : Sub-20 is awesome for a first competition! I know you've been cubing for a long time and it's not that fast for you, but it's still awesome that you were able to do it with first-time nerves and without much recent practice!


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## SpartanSailor (Jul 22, 2018)

Any advice about 7x7 hardware? I have an older MOYU (whatever that is AUFO, AUSU... whatever...) that is non-magnetic and it is a chore to work with. 

I have really come to enjoy and appreciate the benefits of magentic bigger cubes and would like something new and magnetic so I can spend some time working on 7x7 (in addition to 6x6 and 5x5). I must have got a good deal/sale on my Xman 6x6M because I didn’t pay the $50 price tag that seems to be on it these days. I think I paid $35. Now, I’m willing to pay for quality, but can’t afford 2 of these puzzles. I have seen the Cubicle WuJi M 7x7... but at nearly $100US, that’s a bit steep for a puzzle that I’m not proficient with. On the other hand, it could be an investment and I’d use it for a long time. 

I was looking forward to the Hays 7x7, but the release has been delayed and I’m not sure what that price point would be anyway.
(Side note: I think it’s a little messed up that all the top big Cubers have special puzzles made by manufacturers but those some puzzles are not available to the masses... sort of like, an unfair advantage that they have substantially better hardware. I bet lots of people could beat Max or Felix if they had to use antiquated and lesser quality puzzles... just something that occurred to me when I keep seeing all these WR being set with cubes that are not available on the open market). 

ANYWAY... for those of you that do enjoy larger cubes, any recommendations?


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## mafergut (Jul 22, 2018)

Thanks @Mike Hughey. You are completely right and I'm very happy with the result but also a bit sad that my days as a speedcuber might be finished almost before they (officially) started. Anyway, there are many other things twisty-puzzle-related I can still do and will do.

@SpartanSailor. I'm not proficient with big cubes but if you cannot afford an SCS / Cubicle custom Wuji M or similar maybe you can make do with just a stock Wuji. I like mine much, much better than any of the 6x6s I've ever had (but I don't own a Shadow M, of course). Maybe the Yuxin Hualong can suit you well too but I don't own one (I do have the 9x9, though, and it turns just great for such a beast of a puzzle).


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## pglewis (Jul 22, 2018)

@mafergut: Glad to see you check in, hear that you're now official, and very sorry to hear about the tendon issues. I have to wonder if you can change some of your troublesome finger-tricks, use the thumb less, and/or maybe just adjust hand/wrist angle. I've played guitar for 35 years now, when I'm standing and wearing a strap I hike the guitar fairly high. Low-slung is the "cool look" but it seems like a recipe for tendon stress with the wrist angle. I'll take the more dorky look and be happy I'm still tackling challenging pieces at 50.


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## mafergut (Jul 22, 2018)

pglewis said:


> @mafergut: Glad to see you check in, hear that you're now official, and very sorry to hear about the tendon issues. I have to wonder if you can change some of your troublesome finger-tricks, use the thumb less, and/or maybe just adjust hand/wrist angle. I've played guitar for 35 years now, when I'm standing and wearing a strap I hike the guitar fairly high. Low-slung is the "cool look" but it seems like a recipe for tendon stress with the wrist angle. I'll take the more dorky look and be happy I'm still tackling challenging pieces at 50.


Thanks. You're probably right. I'm right-handed and grip the cube mainly with my left. It looks like it's stress caused while gripping the cube. Maybe I use too much force. It hurts more with bigger cubes, which I was practising more lately but what I think was the worst for me was OH. The position when left thumb is gripping the cube while the index does a U flick with the back of the finger hurts a lot now so I have abandoned OH completely. If that's the only price I have to pay to keep cubing I will gladly make the sacrifice.


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## Duncan Bannon (Jul 22, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> Any advice about 7x7 hardware? I have an older MOYU (whatever that is AUFO, AUSU... whatever...) that is non-magnetic and it is a chore to work with.
> 
> I have really come to enjoy and appreciate the benefits of magentic bigger cubes and would like something new and magnetic so I can spend some time working on 7x7 (in addition to 6x6 and 5x5). I must have got a good deal/sale on my Xman 6x6M because I didn’t pay the $50 price tag that seems to be on it these days. I think I paid $35. Now, I’m willing to pay for quality, but can’t afford 2 of these puzzles. I have seen the Cubicle WuJi M 7x7... but at nearly $100US, that’s a bit steep for a puzzle that I’m not proficient with. On the other hand, it could be an investment and I’d use it for a long time.
> 
> ...


For a 7x7 M, you could always magnetize your own. Or having someone here magnetize one, like @One Wheel is always an option!


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## pglewis (Jul 23, 2018)

Knocked 20 seconds off my 3bld PR, 3:12 (1:45 / 1:27), scramble seemed average-ish: R L2 U' R B' L' D2 L' U R B2 L' B2 D2 L U2 L' F2 L' B2 Fw Uw'

It's still difficult for me to get a sub 2 memo that sticks. Gimme 5 mins and I can make it stick until tomorrow though.


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## SpartanSailor (Jul 23, 2018)

pglewis said:


> Knocked 20 seconds off my 3bld PR, 3:12 (1:45 / 1:27), scramble seemed average-ish: R L2 U' R B' L' D2 L' U R B2 L' B2 D2 L U2 L' F2 L' B2 Fw Uw'
> 
> It's still difficult for me to get a sub 2 memo that sticks. Gimme 5 mins and I can make it stick until tomorrow though.


Nice job!

I’m the same... I’m having a hard time getting my memo down to less time. I may just try to improve my consistency at my current mid-3 range and go for a mo3 at my next comp in Aug. 

But, 3:12 is good stuff!

I did just get a 2:41.34 (new PB single) and PB Ao5 of 3:02.12 with my 5x5 today. Still a LONG way to go with that one. I feel like that single was a little lucky. But still felt good.


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## SpartanSailor (Jul 23, 2018)

Duncan Bannon said:


> For a 7x7 M, you could always magnetize your own. Or having someone here magnetize one, like @One Wheel is always an option!


There is no way I’d have the patience to do it myself! Hahahahaha... not even close. I’m certain I’d never get it back together even if I didn’t go mad placing a few hundred tiny magnets! I’d just spend the hundred dollars! 

I guess my question was really if anyone had a 7x7 M and what their thoughts were? Reviews online are suspect. Everyone is either gushing with love or just hates it for no well articulated reason—or because they just don’t like the feel.


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## pglewis (Jul 23, 2018)

pglewis said:


> It's still difficult for me to get a sub 2 memo that sticks.



I'm still mostly all image-based for memo even on 3bld. Occasionally I'm able to fudge and just remember a few audio-like on edges if I'm getting stuck for images, or even just remember the positions of last couple. I think I'm reaching the point where taking on audio for at least part of the edge memo will help. Until now my tracing has been so slow that attacking audio memo wouldn't have been much benefit.


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## mark49152 (Jul 23, 2018)

@pglewis & @SpartanSailor : Nice progress. It's tough but you're doing the right thing. Consensus seems to be that you should rush memo. If you don't rush, you settle into a rhythm and won't get faster. Rushing impacts accuracy but that recovers with much practice.


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## pglewis (Jul 23, 2018)

mark49152 said:


> @pglewis & @SpartanSailor : Nice progress. It's tough but you're doing the right thing. Consensus seems to be that you should rush memo. If you don't rush, you settle into a rhythm and won't get faster. Rushing impacts accuracy but that recovers with much practice.



Last time I did pushed memo it sliced over a minute from my times. Yesterday was a pushed memo day without a single success. Granted I bailed on a lot of 'em if there was a trace mistake or slow memo, I wasn't interested in a 4 min solve. Second solve tonight: 20 second PB. 

Still have to split my time with 3x3 and mbld though and tomorrow should be my 6 cube mbld debut.


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## openseas (Jul 23, 2018)

pglewis said:


> Last time I did pushed memo it sliced over a minute from my times. Yesterday was a pushed memo day without a single success. Granted I bailed on a lot of 'em if there was a trace mistake or slow memo, I wasn't interested in a 4 min solve. Second solve tonight: 20 second PB.
> 
> Still have to split my time with 3x3 and mbld though and tomorrow should be my 6 cube mbld debut.



As Mark said, "rushing the memo" is the only known (proven) way to improve.
There is no written procedure but common belief is like rushing your memo until you drop your success rate to 20~30%. Once you accustomed to it, you'll improve the success rate, then if it goes up to 60~70%, then, further rush the memo. This is the most common way to improve your time. Yes, it won't happen in a day or in a few attempts, it needs days of practices.


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## bubbagrub (Jul 23, 2018)

mafergut said:


> Hi guys! Lot's of catching up. Like 30 pages or so since I last checked. Sorry but life/work and my youtube channel are taking a lot of time lately.
> 
> First of all, congrats @bubbagrub for your NR. That's really impressive performance.
> 
> ...



Hey! Really sorry to have missed you at the competition -- I had no idea you were there. I'm very impressed by your result -- sub-20 3x3 average is something I've been aiming for for years and just missed out on at this comp (I got 20.17). Great to hear you had a good time as well -- hope to catch you at some future competition, perhaps. Hopefully you've caught the competition bug now!


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## mafergut (Jul 23, 2018)

bubbagrub said:


> Hey! Really sorry to have missed you at the competition -- I had no idea you were there. I'm very impressed by your result -- sub-20 3x3 average is something I've been aiming for for years and just missed out on at this comp (I got 20.17). Great to hear you had a good time as well -- hope to catch you at some future competition, perhaps. Hopefully you've caught the competition bug now!


Had I been there for more than just Saturday we surely would have found each other sooner or later. Thanks for your encouragement and, yeah, it was a thrilling experience that I would like to repeat in the future, let's see.

Also, I forgot to mention, @mark49152, I was told that you could not attend due to a last minute personal issue. I hope it was nothing serious. I would have loved meeting you too and hearing about a 20/20 MBLD success!!!


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## SpartanSailor (Jul 23, 2018)

Good morning... (here in the States anyway)

Did just a couple 3BLD “memo” drills... Recently, I’ve just been doing a lot of sighted edge drills. But rather than just doing pairs, I’m doing 3 pairs with only a single trace. Simply looking at the first 6 targets and then just going. After checking that those were correct (or wrong), I do the next six until I’m done. It’s not exactly how I’d do it, but it is forcing me to keep moving.

This morning, I did a couple timed memo attempts. I set my countdown timer on my phone for 90 seconds. When the alarm went off, I closed my eyes and executed what ever I had. The first one, went well. I got my corners down in 30 seconds and essentially finished my edge memo. During execution, I forgot an edge pair, but otherwise, it turned out decent. The second felt very rushed and I forgot my edge memo after only 4 targets... I could remember the later section, but there was a pair that I knew I couldn’t recall...

I think I’m going to work this into my practice more often. Not only did I really have to rush my memo, but the pressure of seeing my countdown timer really added extra pressure which would bre more like a competition where every second counts if you’re going for speed. I KNOW I can execute in a 1:00 to 1:15 or so... sometimes faster. I’m getting more comfortable with my edges now and as long as I can recall my memo, I can keep my execution closer to a minute. If I can get memo down to 1:30 or less... I’ll have PLENTY of time to get a sub-3 time for 3BLD. 

Sub-3 is the next MILESTONE. I’ve done it a couple times, but those were unusually fast memo times for me. I must have been in the zone or had easy memos. 

I don’t think my goal in Pennsylvania will be a sub-3 result, rather, a mo3. However, between now and then if I can push my memo down to less time, that will give me more time to complete 3 solves. To get a mean with a 10min cumulative limit, I’ll have to be 3 for 3 at 3:20 or better. So, a sub-3 result isn’t off the table anyway. I’ve added the FU/BD special case where you solve two at a time with one of those and an edge. Even with a slight slowing down to recall that pattern, I feel like that is much faster than doing two separate targets. 

I saw a video by a young man on YouTube, 4BLD, that has some good tips for basic commutators to match a couple edges simultaneously. I’ll be working on that this fall. Who knows, by the end of the year, I could be a easily under 3 minutes—and to think this all started around Christmas as just something cool and interesting to see if I could actually do it. 

Happy Monday, gents!


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## Old Tom (Jul 23, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> Good morning... (here in the States anyway)
> 
> Did just a couple 3BLD “memo” drills... Recently, I’ve just been doing a lot of sighted edge drills. But rather than just doing pairs, I’m doing 3 pairs with only a single trace. Simply looking at the first 6 targets and then just going. After checking that those were correct (or wrong), I do the next six until I’m done. It’s not exactly how I’d do it, but it is forcing me to keep moving.
> 
> ...



Happy Monday also. But.... First you guys tell me I should try blind solving. Now you are scaring me with all this arcane stuff. I do think I understand what you are doing in a very vague way, but looks like there may be an initial steep learning curve. Is there a site or a forum where I can find good intro to blinding stuff? I might go sit in a corner for a couple of days and get started.

PS: Really pleased I survived that first comp. I am now motivated to get much better!


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## h2f (Jul 23, 2018)

About rushing memo and progress.
My tabels says that progress in blindes is mixture of both: regular practice and rushing memo. I'm rushing my memo in a pace I feel a little bit uncomfortable - not much but significantly. For example in 5bld I cut reviews. It works quite well. Times are slowly going down. 

@mark49152, I was looking forward your results in blindes during Euro. It's sad you couldnt be there. I hope everthing is ok.


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## One Wheel (Jul 23, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> I guess my question was really if anyone had a 7x7 M and what their thoughts were? Reviews online are suspect. Everyone is either gushing with love or just hates it for no well articulated reason—or because they just don’t like the feel.



IMO: bigger and even-layered cubes benefit most from magnets. 6x6 makes the most difference, 4x4 vs. 7x7 are both significantly more stable with magnets, then 5x5, and 3x3 are helped the least of the magnetic puzzles I've tried.

It's a little tedious, but not that bad to magnetize a 7x7. I could propably do it in not much more than 3 hours including reassembly. If it's your first attempt at magnetizing maybe double that, but if you've got a table that won't be disturbed it doesn't have to all be done in one go.


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## mark49152 (Jul 23, 2018)

@mafergut & @h2f - thanks for the kind words. I'm OK, just family stuff. I hope to meet you at a future comp @mafergut - actually both!

@SpartanSailor - good call. Time limited memo is great practice. I use the same time each session, then reduce the time limit each time I have a session with 50%+ success rate. It really helps.

@Old Tom - Nice to hear you're considering BLD. My recommendation would be to watch a few tutorials. They are not that long and it helps to hear different explanations. Hopefully you'll find one that clicks for you.


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## Mike Hughey (Jul 23, 2018)

Old Tom said:


> Is there a site or a forum where I can find good intro to blinding stuff? I might go sit in a corner for a couple of days and get started.


This is tough because I know you'd prefer not to use videos, and most of the best tutorials these days are videos. For website tutorials you can read, you mostly have to go to the old websites. I did a search and found the following that might work, but I admit I haven't gone through them carefully to see how good they actually are. The first two are just the Old Pochmann method, which most people will say is fine to learn first for corners, but is probably not ideal to use for edges anymore. Still, if all you want to do is be able to solve it blindfolded and you don't care how fast you get, it might work well, since it's simpler than M2, which is probably the best alternative for beginner edges. Here are the Old Pochmann sites I found:
https://ruwix.com/the-rubiks-cube/how-to-solve-the-rubiks-cube-blindfolded-tutorial/
http://en.lerubikscube.com/rubiks-cube-blindfolded/

This teaches M2, but it's really old (from Shotaro Makisumi - a legend from the very early days of cubing - it was his normal blindsolving tutorial that I first used to learn how to blindsolve 11 years ago):
http://cubefreak.net/bld/m2_guide.php

Perhaps some of the other people on here will have better recommendations - I hope so! There are a bunch of videos; maybe you can find one with decent captions that can help you. It is probably easier to learn BLD with videos, but if it gives you any encouragement, I learned exclusively from written tutorials (I watched no videos on BLD before I was already pretty good at it), and I got pretty decent at it.


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## h2f (Jul 23, 2018)

mark49152 said:


> actually both!



I wish I could attend comp in UK.


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## pglewis (Jul 23, 2018)

Old Tom said:


> Now you are scaring me with all this arcane stuff. I do think I understand what you are doing in a very vague way, but looks like there may be an initial steep learning curve. Is there a site or a forum where I can find good intro to blinding stuff? I might go sit in a corner for a couple of days and get started.



It's surprisingly easy... well, easier than it likely seems . Nothing is individually really mind-bending but there are multiple little things to learn and put together for a solve. The very first thing you need is a letter scheme and I suggest "speffz" simply because it's fairly standard nowadays and there is little benefit to using something different unless you memo in something other than English where it might be useful to swap out some of the letters. 

24 unique symbols can identify any sticker position for a piece type (4 of each piece type per face * 6 faces) which works out well with the letters A-X. Letters are assigned clockwise on each face starting from the top right of the face and the faces in order: U, L, F, R, B, D. So the top left corner (UBL) and the top edge (UB) on the U face are A. Top left corner (LBU) and top edge (LU) on the L face: E. Reasonably easy to learn and you'll put it to work once you start memorizing. 

You'll also want to select an orientation to use, purely personal preference.


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## mark49152 (Jul 23, 2018)

h2f said:


> I wish I could attend comp in UK.


You'd be more than welcome! Would be great to see you there.

@Old Tom - apologies, I forgot that video might not work too well for you. I can vouch for Maki's tutorial that Mike linked. That was one of the ones I learned from.


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## Old Tom (Jul 23, 2018)

@pglewis, @mark49152 and @Mike Hughey: Thanks for all those leads. Yes, I think finding a memo method is where I need to get a way to start, foot in door. I think execution may be similar to commutator routines I first used in 1981, quickly abandoned but I saved some notes.

Yes, videos not ideal for me, but possible if captioned, would need to view several times. I will first try the old text sources. (I read my way all through school, since couldn't hear the teachers, it's my natural learning method.)

I have bridge classes to teach this week (lots of prep), but no classes in August. I am getting more and more curious about BLD, so I think I will! And yes, I don't care about my times. (Though I will bring my 3x3 times way down, I swear!)


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## SpartanSailor (Jul 23, 2018)

Sooooo...

I’ve started learning 4BLD centres. I guess that means I’m starting to learn 4BLD. 

Worked out all the set ups for my letter scheme and all the U/D face algs. Put them in a document for my own reference. I’ll just drill those for fun for a couple weeks. When those are pretty smooth, I’ll move onto wings, then finish with corners. 

Who knows... I might even attempt a 4BLD solve in a comp by the end of the year. I’m not in a hurry on this one.


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## pglewis (Jul 23, 2018)

Old Tom said:


> I am getting more and more curious about BLD, so I think I will! And yes, I don't care about my times. (Though I will bring my 3x3 times way down, I swear!)



I'm developing a completely irrational superstition that blindfold practice magically improves my 3x3. Recent focus: a 5 cube mbld attempt Fri, pushed memo day Sat, then a PB 3bld last night in two attempts. I followed that up with an Ao50 for 3x3 and _finally_ manged to duck :25. Been after that for ages, all it took was a lot of blindfold work lol.


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## SpartanSailor (Jul 23, 2018)

pglewis said:


> I'm developing a completely irrational superstition that blindfold practice magically improves my 3x3. Recent focus: a 5 cube mbld attempt Fri, pushed memo day Sat, then a PB 3bld last night in two attempts. I followed that up with an Ao50 for 3x3 and _finally_ manged to duck :25. Been after that for ages, all it took was a lot of blindfold work lol.


Well, my friend, my experience has been quite the opposite! Lol... I made some gains/improvements around Christmas time with 3x3. I’ve actually regressed over the past couple months and I practice a lot. 

I’m going to take the completely irrational approach that “too much paractice is bad” and cut back my 3x3 practice in favour of other events that have LOTS of room for improvement. And I’m assuming that magically my 3x3 will just get faster too. Lol


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## Mike Hughey (Jul 23, 2018)

I've heard so many people talk about how not practicing 3x3x3 makes them better. It makes me so jealous. That never happens for me. If I practice like crazy on 3x3x3, I'll start to get very slightly better - it will make a difference - but a couple of weeks off and it's as if I never improved at all. What I find so very frustrating about 3x3x3 speedsolving is that it seems to take so much constant, steady practice, and I'm just not interested in doing that, even if I had the time. I'll do it for some weeks at a time and improve occasionally, but then I always seem to regress again when I slack off with the practicing. So I never really improve anymore.


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## pglewis (Jul 23, 2018)

Mike Hughey said:


> What I find so very frustrating about 3x3x3 speedsolving is that it seems to take so much constant, steady practice, and I'm just not interested in doing that, even if I had the time. I'll do it for some weeks at a time and improve occasionally, but then I always seem to regress again when I slack off with the practicing. So I never really improve anymore.



This touches on a curiosity I've had for a while as to what rough speed might be maintainable for me without a lot of daily solves. I've still never quite "plateaued" for any length of time, the improvements are smaller and slower now but I am still seeing measurable improvement. I'd probably regress to 30-35 before too long if I was only practicing a few days a week. Luckily for me, mindless spamming while watching TV seems to be enough to at least maintain where I am if not continue to drive improvement.


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## Old Tom (Jul 23, 2018)

Question for all you guys about practicing in general. I was amazed at the comp, even a little freaked out, how all those hot-shot kids were constantly twirling their cubes. Non-stop! Are they just random moves, or alg practice, do you know? They must drive their parents mad!


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## Mike Hughey (Jul 23, 2018)

Old Tom said:


> Question for all you guys about practicing in general. I was amazed at the comp, even a little freaked out, how all those hot-shot kids were constantly twirling their cubes. Non-stop! Are they just random moves, or alg practice, do you know? They must drive their parents mad!


Good question! Probably some of both. Some are doing random moves, most are probably doing algorithms; some are just spamming the same algorithms for no particular reason other than to get/keep warm, some are actually going through multiple algorithms for real practice, some just think it feels cool to be turning the cube a lot.


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## Old Tom (Jul 23, 2018)

Mike Hughey said:


> Good question! Probably some of both. Some are doing random moves, most are probably doing algorithms; some are just spamming the same algorithms for no particular reason other than to get/keep warm, some are actually going through multiple algorithms for real practice, some just think it feels cool to be turning the cube a lot.



I admit to some random twirling while watching TV. My excuse is that I'm doing a scramble, but really just a nervous habit, and somewhat relaxing.


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## SpartanSailor (Jul 23, 2018)

pglewis said:


> This touches on a curiosity I've had for a while as to what rough speed might be maintainable for me without a lot of daily solves. I've still never quite "plateaued" for any length of time, the improvements are smaller and slower now but I am still seeing measurable improvement. I'd probably regress to 30-35 before too long if I was only practicing a few days a week. Luckily for me, mindless spamming while watching TV seems to be enough to at least maintain where I am if not continue to drive improvement.


I definitely hit mid-20s almost regardless of how much I practice. In fact... as long as I’m working bigger cubes, the final 3x3 portion is probably sufficient to keep me around 25-27s without much other dedicated practice. 

This is the frustration... even after a few hundred solves a week for a couple months I’m still getting 25s in comp and just as likely to get a 30-something as I am to get 21 or faster...


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## pglewis (Jul 23, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> This is the frustration... even after a few hundred solves a week for a couple months I’m still getting 25s in comp and just as likely to get a 30-something as I am to get 21 or faster...



What I do at home and what I do at comp... lol

On the plus side of this "problem" all I need is a sub 30 average to PB handily next time out.

Note to Old Tom: wanting to be faster before your next comp is a zero end-game, only the numbers change


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## Old Tom (Jul 23, 2018)

@pglewis said: Note to Old Tom: wanting to be faster before your next comp is a zero end-game, only the numbers change. 

Very wise! That was my fool's quest when I was a runner, long ago. Sadly, no longer a runner, but still a fool.


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## Selkie (Jul 24, 2018)

Mike Hughey said:


> I've heard so many people talk about how not practicing 3x3x3 makes them better. It makes me so jealous. That never happens for me. If I practice like crazy on 3x3x3, I'll start to get very slightly better - it will make a difference - but a couple of weeks off and it's as if I never improved at all. What I find so very frustrating about 3x3x3 speedsolving is that it seems to take so much constant, steady practice, and I'm just not interested in doing that, even if I had the time. I'll do it for some weeks at a time and improve occasionally, but then I always seem to regress again when I slack off with the practicing. So I never really improve anymore.



Mate, I can relate so much to this. You may recall my race to sub 20 7(?) years ago when you ran that thread. I have been sat on some huge plateaus over the years since. My progressions to ~18s was quite consistent but very quickly my progression stopped.

What I firmly do believe now is that repeating complete solves alone may work for some but for others it may not. Solving, especially if you have for years, becomes such a sub conscious task. Have you ever said to yourself before a solve "I'll do X here" and the solve is over and you never did? 

For me progression comes from challenging what is automatic, what is norm and doing various forms of practice that breaks that subconscious thought. Whilst this may sound like overthinking, sometimes that is needed.

Rowan Kinneavy ( @Escher ) did a post many years ago about practice where can be found here https://www.speedsolving.com/forum/threads/how-to-practice.27870/. This is such a great starting point and was the basis for how I have practiced in recent years.

If I was to give specifics for the more mature cuber I would say do some sessions of the highest TPS you can, the times will be bad but in time it will help, we older folk have a natural tenancy to turn slower and this is on top of being told to slow down and lookahead. We really do turn slower than we can. If you have not done anything on X --> 1st Pair that will net you loads of improvement. I do some casual solves where I may inspect for >1m even if just trying to predict where one corner will end up. Loads of exploratory solves where time is not important looking for where you might rotate where you don't need to. Explore some COLL and WV even if you don't learn the all the algs. 

It may not work for you Mike but for me anything that breaks that subconscious repetition works for me.

I have just hit globally sub 14.5 now, some good improvement recently but I am now racing Ron to sub 12 in comp. I still need to find a lot more improvement 

Always happy to help in any way I can, there is life in our old hands yet...


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## Mike Hughey (Jul 24, 2018)

Very inspirational, @Selkie - and your constant improvement is also very inspirational. I still can't believe you got from where you were a few years ago all the way to being able to race with Ron of all people (who is also incredibly inspirational)!


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## pglewis (Jul 24, 2018)

6 cube attempt: 2/6, 52.23 (37:15 / 15:08). Corners were 6/6, all mistakes were on the edges.

One dumb mistake on cube 1 (2nd one solved) where I continued doing edge execution even when switching to corner memo. I tried to undo it but got centers off, surprisingly corners were all still correct for the orientation, if not matching the centers. The other 3: off by a 3 cycle of edges, one flipped edge, and another with a bunch of edge mistakes.

Time was fine, obviously, I was comfortably right at 5 mins / cube memoing the first 5. A little mental fatigue arrived late in memo and slowed the execution quite a bit but it wasn't too bad. Memo only briefly failed on the final cube and came back to me without too much trouble. I guess go for 7 next.


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## JohnnyReggae (Jul 24, 2018)

Managed to smashed my OH PB last night with a 15.57




Super stoked. Got a lucky pll-skip but even if I didn't have a skip it would have been sub-20 which is really good for me. I've been spending a fair amount of time practicing OH as I have been enjoying it, but am still averaging in the mid to high 20's so to smash my previous PB by 3 seconds is huge.

D2 R D F R2 B' L' U2 R2 F2 U R2 D2 F' U2 F R2 F2 D2 F2

https://alg.cubing.net/?setup=D2_R_...//_oll_(pll&#45;skip)_38
//[email protected]_2.4tps


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## Logiqx (Jul 24, 2018)

JohnnyReggae said:


> Managed to smashed my OH PB last night with a 15.57
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Very nice! We're within 0.03 of each other for OH single.

Generally speaking my OH times have probably regressed though... almost no practice since my last competition.

My TPS has dropped a lot (left hand has become sluggish) but I'm hoping to rebuild it over coming weeks.


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## Logiqx (Jul 24, 2018)

I've update the Oldies rankings and added a link to the dynamic view:

https://github.com/Logiqx/wca-ipy

Let me know if I've missed anyone!


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## mafergut (Jul 24, 2018)

Logiqx said:


> I've update the Oldies rankings and added a link to the dynamic view:
> 
> https://github.com/Logiqx/wca-ipy
> 
> Let me know if I've missed anyone!


Hey!!! I'm already there! Thanks a lot @Logiqx. Now I need more comps to register times in other categories than 3x3.


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## SpartanSailor (Jul 24, 2018)

Wait. The R and L layers (outside) for 4BLD wings use the same setups as the outside edges for M2? Bonus!!


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## Old Tom (Jul 24, 2018)

Logiqx said:


> I've update the Oldies rankings and added a link to the dynamic view:
> 
> https://github.com/Logiqx/wca-ipy
> 
> Let me know if I've missed anyone!



Happy to see I'm on the list!


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## openseas (Jul 24, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> Wait. The R and L layers (outside) for 4BLD wings use the same setups as the outside edges for M2? Bonus!!



Yes, M2 in 3BLD is almost the same as r2 in 4BLD. Things are not compatible include UF-DB related algs (M Uw2 M' Uw2, D2 M D2 M', etc), UF-UB alg (U2 M' U2 M or similar). You can tell easily whenever 3BLD algs swapping M/M', it may not be translated into r2 automatically due to "l" layer.
But advanced M2 like FU + other target combination, BD + other target combination works. Also, BU M2 alg using B' R B works exactly. If you look carefully, Ubl alg is the basic of Fl, Dl, and Dbl. The rest is just setting up to Bul and using the same Bul alg.


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## h2f (Jul 24, 2018)

openseas said:


> Yes, M2 in 3BLD is almost the same as r2 in 4BLD. Things are not compatible include UF-DB related algs (M Uw2 M' Uw2, D2 M D2 M', etc), UF-UB alg (U2 M' U2 M or similar). You can tell easily whenever 3BLD algs swapping M/M', it may not be translated into r2 automatically due to "l" layer.
> But advanced M2 like FU + other target combination, BD + other target combination works. Also, BU M2 alg using B R B' works exactly. If you look carefully, Bul alg is the basic of Ufl, Fdl, and Dbl. The rest is just setting up to Bul and using the same Bul alg.



It's easy to makes setups for targets on "l" layer and make 2 targets with pure r2 to avoid setups to BU and doing this long alg.


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## SpartanSailor (Jul 24, 2018)

openseas said:


> Yes, M2 in 3BLD is almost the same as r2 in 4BLD. Things are not compatible include UF-DB related algs (M Uw2 M' Uw2, D2 M D2 M', etc), UF-UB alg (U2 M' U2 M or similar). You can tell easily whenever 3BLD algs swapping M/M', it may not be translated into r2 automatically due to "l" layer.
> But advanced M2 like FU + other target combination, BD + other target combination works. Also, BU M2 alg using B R B' works exactly. If you look carefully, Bul alg is the basic of Ufl, Fdl, and Dbl. The rest is just setting up to Bul and using the same Bul alg.


I remember you telling me that before, but I don’t think I was fully understanding. Now that I’ve spent time learning M2 edges, it makes sense right away. 

I remember hearing (and tried it to see for myself) that the Uw moves for “H” and “M” (aka LB and RB) were not Center safe... using the other setups is just as easy anyway for 4BLD wings. 

I’m still not in a hurry... I like having 4BLD be a more low key endeavour to just keep me learning more stuff. There are a LOT more letter pairs to keep in my head too... I’ll cross that bridge when I’m ready to go for a full 4BLD solve. But I don’t see that happening in the next couple weeks.


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## openseas (Jul 24, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> I remember you telling me that before, but I don’t think I was fully understanding. Now that I’ve spent time learning M2 edges, it makes sense right away.
> 
> I remember hearing (and tried it to see for myself) that the Uw moves for “H” and “M” (aka LB and RB) were not Center safe... using the other setups is just as easy anyway for 4BLD wings.
> 
> I’m still not in a hurry... I like having 4BLD be a more low key endeavour to just keep me learning more stuff. There are a LOT more letter pairs to keep in my head too... I’ll cross that bridge when I’m ready to go for a full 4BLD solve. But I don’t see that happening in the next couple weeks.



Yes, no need to rush.

Since you're taking slow, please note that 4BLD (x) center is the best or easiest case to learn 3 style. You just need to learn one basic 3 style alg (or set) and then apply to almost all center targets. (Just setting up the rest). It is much easier to understand, to follow how pieces are moving. Daniel Shepard(?)'s 4BLD tutorial covers this - very easy for a beginner. Or, Tim Goh's tutorial covers this as well.


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## Mike Hughey (Jul 24, 2018)

I thought it might be worthwhile to mention here that I actually had a lot of trouble originally understanding how M2 worked. But once I learned r2, suddenly M2 made more sense. I found r2 much easier to understand than M2, because the special cases make more sense to me.


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## SpartanSailor (Jul 24, 2018)

I keep getting this.... that’s my buffer and it’s neighbor (white top, Green Front, orientation). 

That doesn’t look like the parity... and the parity Alg does not solve it. It’s just a flipped edge. All other “edges” are fine. I did sighted wings and got this twice in a row.

Separately... when doing wings, do you need to do the FU/BD or UF/DB swap like with M2?


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## newtonbase (Jul 24, 2018)

I found that learning r2 helped my M2 a lot. You think a lot more about setups to save moves. As it's a slower solve you tend to actually use them more as well rather than going full speed then cursing at yourself for doing it the long way like in 3BLD. Or is that just me?


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## newtonbase (Jul 24, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> I keep getting this.... that’s my buffer and it’s neighbor (white top, Green Front, orientation).
> 
> That doesn’t look like the parity... and the parity Alg does not solve it. It’s just a flipped edge. All other “edges” are fine. I did sighted wings and got this twice in a row.
> 
> Separately... when doing wings, do you need to do the FU/BD or UF/DB swap like with M2?


It looks like you just need to solve the K sticker then do parity.
The swap is the same for FU BD but the other one isn't on the r slice so no swap.


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## SpartanSailor (Jul 24, 2018)

newtonbase said:


> It looks like you just need to solve the K sticker then do parity.
> The swap is the same for FU BD but the other one isn't on the r slice so no swap.


I forgot about “k” because that never happens with M2... tried it. It worked.

I tried a “practice” and wrote everything down and used my cheat sheets for tricky algs.... that’s a LOT of information to keep in your head. I made a mistake even writing it down trying to determine if I had all the wings.... 

I’m mentally tired from just that. I can’t imagine doing a full attempt at this point.


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## pglewis (Jul 24, 2018)

Well, I know who I'll be going to when I first take up 4bld . (It has been on my "maybe" list for 2018)


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## pglewis (Jul 24, 2018)

Weird oddity: between multi-blind, pushed memo practice, and today just a bunch of untimed 3bld I've been getting a LOT of scrambles in csTimer where my corner buffer is already solve or twisted in place. I do OP so I'm doing lots of corner memos that start with P.


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## Old Tom (Jul 24, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> I forgot about “k” because that never happens with M2... tried it. It worked.
> 
> 
> I’m mentally tired from just that. I can’t imagine doing a full attempt at this point.



Just remember, "Tired is happy."


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## SpartanSailor (Jul 25, 2018)

Not the most impressive 3BLD practice tonite... started with a 3:36–happy with that for now. Then, a string of 6 DNFs in a row... then success at 3:14. A couple of those DNFs were slow too. Difficult memos. The rest were simple execution or memo errros (like putting the edge in flipped, or skipping a corner all together—tracing error). The one tracing error, however, was a 2:35 DNF (1:25/1:10).


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## pglewis (Jul 25, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> The one tracing error, however, was a 2:35 DNF (1:25/1:10).



You have like 20 seconds on me on execution. I just did a couple here to check and I can just barely beat your execution... with memo jotted down and reading it.


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## SpartanSailor (Jul 25, 2018)

pglewis said:


> You have like 20 seconds on me on execution. I just did a couple here to check and I can just barely beat your execution... with memo jotted down and reading it.


There is still plenty of improvement in execution too. I still have several pauses... by this time next year hopefully I’ll be headed to US Nationals with a strong low 2 consistent 3BLD. once I get over those pauses and cut my memo down... I’ll be hauling! (When compared to my today)


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## Selkie (Jul 25, 2018)

Thanks @Mike Hughey . I get an awful lot of motivation from Ron and quite honored that he admits he gets a lot from me. He freely admits he practiced little other than 4x4 for a long while. Our friendly race to sub 1:40 at 5x5 in comp got him motivated and now he is no longer a board member he has more time. He very nearly took the over 40's 6x6 mean from me at Euros last weekend and was only 0.3s short!

If he does well in a round in comp he will message me and we chat a lot online. He is practicing daily and when Ron practices, he has great improvement.

Ron and I are to be co-organising a comp in the near future. Watch this space


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## newtonbase (Jul 25, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> I made a mistake even writing it down trying


Tracing the wings is very hard to start with. There are things you can do to help (counting letters, starting cycles on set stickers) but nothing beats lots of practice.


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## SpartanSailor (Jul 25, 2018)

newtonbase said:


> Tracing the wings is very hard to start with. There are things you can do to help (counting letters, starting cycles on set stickers) but nothing beats lots of practice.


I have go—to cycle starts with 3BLD... that helps. I’ll definitely include that as I practice and get more comfortable. The first step is just working all the setups for centres and getting the l/r slice algs down for wings.


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## 40yearstosolve (Jul 25, 2018)

Old Tom said:


> So, thoughts on my first competition:
> 
> Would I do it again? Alas, yes.
> 
> ...



Amazing Tom congratulations this is amazing w00000000t 

Totally inspired me now. My son and I both have created WCA accounts in readiness!

Imagine my surprise when a friends older son babysat for us at the weekend and he also speed cubes! It was a great coming together of minds. The three of us geeking out whilst my wife dragged me out of the house 

I also have new news! I just managed not only a sub-2 minute but actually now have beaten my previous best of 1:38 with a slick 1:31! And it wasn’t a terribly easy solve either! I am flabbergasted! It came out of nowhere, especially when I consider recently that I have only been doing one or two solves a day and had my first day off yesterday. It seems the brain continues to bury the knowledge deeper and more firmly with time even when you’re not practising.


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## 40yearstosolve (Jul 25, 2018)

pglewis said:


> Congrats on your milestone, I know you've put a lot of work into learning and practice to get there! It took me a couple months to get sub 2 mins and that was also about the point where I started to see how a much faster solve might happen even though I had a long way to go. With four pairs, every second you save per F2L pair on average will be multiplied by 4. I suggest recording a typical solve and watching it back, no one but you needs to ever see it . It should show you that you don't have to rush or turn faster to make big improvements, just cutting down on the length of pauses where you're not turning.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Thank you pglewis that is a great idea to film myself for my eyes only, I’ll do that. I just posted re my new record of 1:31, we are only our holidays soon so I have been preparing for this for a while (as you know) and armed with F2L and my now familiarity and ease with it my goal is to literally sit in the sun and instead of reading a book practise my cubing day in, day out, to achieve a sub-1 minute.


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## h2f (Jul 25, 2018)

Selkie said:


> If I was to give specifics for the more mature cuber I would say do some sessions of the highest TPS you can, the times will be bad but in time it will help, we older folk have a natural tenancy to turn slower and this is on top of being told to slow down and lookahead. We really do turn slower than we can. If you have not done anything on X --> 1st Pair that will net you loads of improvement. I do some casual solves where I may inspect for >1m even if just trying to predict where one corner will end up. Loads of exploratory solves where time is not important looking for where you might rotate where you don't need to. Explore some COLL and WV even if you don't learn the all the algs.



That's very helpfull and intersting. Thanks a lot for sharing it.


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## Old Tom (Jul 25, 2018)

40yearstosolve said:


> Amazing Tom congratulations this is amazing w00000000t
> 
> Totally inspired me now. My son and I both have created WCA accounts in readiness!
> 
> ...



Hey, great! I am also now getting a few sub-2s at home also (best = 1:51) and am consistently sub-3 (except when I mess up completely, which does happen). But I am doing lots of untimed solves and drills also. I am not trying to memorize algs, instead (within F2L): find pair, recognize the case it is, see the logical approach (such as "make joined pair), execute that. Do it slow first, then faster, then concentrate on turning speed once it is automatic. And just recently: stay slow but try to look ahead for the next pair. This last is still very tough.

Be warned: when you do get to a comp, there will be the anxiety that comes with any new thing. Only way to get over that is to just do it. I "lost it" on my second solve for a DNF, could not afford another (else, no official average). So, just went deliberately slow and took what came.


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## 40yearstosolve (Jul 25, 2018)

Old Tom said:


> Hey, great! I am also now getting a few sub-2s at home also (best = 1:51) and am consistently sub-3 (except when I mess up completely, which does happen). But I am doing lots of untimed solves and drills also. I am not trying to memorize algs, instead (within F2L): find pair, recognize the case it is, see the logical approach (such as "make joined pair), execute that. Do it slow first, then faster, then concentrate on turning speed once it is automatic. And just recently: stay slow but try to look ahead for the next pair. This last is still very tough.
> 
> Be warned: when you do get to a comp, there will be the anxiety that comes with any new thing. Only way to get over that is to just do it. I "lost it" on my second solve for a DNF, could not afford another (else, no official average). So, just went deliberately slow and took what came.


That’s great advice, I can imagine being very panicked so will focus us all on finish rather than ‘win’ 
What were your completion times?


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## Old Tom (Jul 25, 2018)

h2f said:


> That's very helpfull and intersting. Thanks a lot for sharing it.



Re TPS and the "mature cuber", otherwise known as "geezer", I qualify:

We all do slow down with age, even our fingers. Some of it is injuries, conditions, surgeries (I've had/have all of those), some of it is just plain age. So be it.

I tried timing purely random turns, while counting, fast as I could, can get barely over 2 TPS. My average turn count for a solve is I think around 60. Do the math, then add hesitations and a few cube rotations, but eliminate mistakes. The result is what it is.

So, my personal, long range goal is to get under a minute. Most of you young whippersnappers are already doing way better! I am not discouraged, just inspired.


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## Old Tom (Jul 25, 2018)

40yearstosolve said:


> That’s great advice, I can imagine being very panicked so will focus us all on finish rather than ‘win’
> What were your completion times?



You can find them on the WCA site. Off the top of my head: one DNF, best 2:30, average 3:19. Not thrilled, but content for now. The experience was great though, as I mentioned in earlier posts.


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## 40yearstosolve (Jul 25, 2018)

Old Tom said:


> Re TPS and the "mature cuber", otherwise known as "geezer", I qualify:
> 
> We all do slow down with age, even our fingers. Some of it is injuries, conditions, surgeries (I've had/have all of those), some of it is just plain age. So be it.
> 
> ...



Me too, and it’s well documented here that it comes from you Tom! Both age and approach.
<insert clapping emoji>


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## 40yearstosolve (Jul 25, 2018)

Old Tom said:


> You can find them on the WCA site. Off the top of my head: one DNF, best 2:30, average 3:19. Not thrilled, but content for now. The experience was great though, as I mentioned in earlier posts.


Ye just to get those official entries is awesome well done again.


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## pglewis (Jul 25, 2018)

Old Tom said:


> Be warned: when you do get to a comp, there will be the anxiety that comes with any new thing. Only way to get over that is to just do it. I "lost it" on my second solve for a DNF, could not afford another (else, no official average). So, just went deliberately slow and took what came.



Some people thrive with the adrenaline, time kinda slows down and if you can keep your head and not suffer alg amnesia the times might be faster than expected. I'm not there yet, I averaged DNF at my first comp and my first two solves last time were over a minute and :52 (I average comfortably under 30 at home)... my final solve once I'd calmed down was a low :22, which would be a decent time even at home. I had fair luck fighting it at one comp where I went outside right before my heat, sang to myself to get my mind off the anxiety and ran the steps a few laps to burn some adrenaline.


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## Old Tom (Jul 25, 2018)

pglewis said:


> Some people thrive with the adrenaline, time kinda slows down and if you can keep your head and not suffer alg amnesia the times might be faster than expected. I'm not there yet, I averaged DNF at my first comp and my first two solves last time were over a minute and :52 (I average comfortably under 30 at home)... my final solve once I'd calmed down was a low :22, which would be a decent time even at home. I had fair luck fighting it at one comp where I went outside right before my heat, sang to myself to get my mind off the anxiety and ran the steps a few laps to burn some adrenaline.



When I was younger, I was always at my best in the examination room, which is a "do something within x time" situation, but never as good in a "do something as fast as you can" case, which a Rubik's comp is. Made me try to go faster than I can = mistakes. But I am learning how to handle that with home solves against the clock.


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## pglewis (Jul 25, 2018)

Old Tom said:


> When I was younger, I was always at my best in the examination room, which is a "do something within x time" situation, but never as good in a "do something as fast as you can" case, which a Rubik's comp is. Made me try to go faster than I can = mistakes. But I am learning how to handle that with home solves against the clock.



This is why I was so shocked after my first comp. I never experienced "test anxiety" and didn't even understand it because tests were a moment to shine. Now I know what that feels like.


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## mark49152 (Jul 25, 2018)

Old Tom said:


> When I was younger, I was always at my best in the examination room, which is a "do something within x time" situation, but never as good in a "do something as fast as you can" case, which a Rubik's comp is. Made me try to go faster than I can = mistakes. But I am learning how to handle that with home solves against the clock.


The approach I took at my first comp, and which I would recommend, is simply to forget you're going against the clock. Don't try to race. Instead, know that you are simply measuring how long it takes you to do a solve. Relax, start the timer, solve without rushing, stop the timer; measurement complete. I surprised myself by actually measuring pretty close to my home average


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## Old Tom (Jul 25, 2018)

mark49152 said:


> The approach I took at my first comp, and which I would recommend, is simply to forget you're going against the clock. Don't try to race. Instead, know that you are simply measuring how long it takes you to do a solve. Relax, start the timer, solve without rushing, stop the timer; measurement complete. I surprised myself by actually measuring pretty close to my home average



That's the ideal way. Now, how do I mentally trick myself into doing that? I guess by going to lots of comps. Sounds like a plan.


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## pglewis (Jul 25, 2018)

Solid day of untimed 3bld solves yesterday and I think I'll repeat it again today and then do a 7 cube mbld attempt tomorrow. I'm already prepared to attempt 7 but attempts at 4-6 were all legit and could have been scoring if not for tracing and execution probs so I'm pounding execution with a focus on very high accuracy first. Execution confidence is already much higher after yesterday. I'm also drilling my images at the same time, looking them up if I'm having trouble on a pair, thus untimed. The focus is "if tracing and memo are a given then execution _should_ be a given".


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## mark49152 (Jul 25, 2018)

Old Tom said:


> That's the ideal way. Now, how do I mentally trick myself into doing that? I guess by going to lots of comps. Sounds like a plan.


Quite the opposite. Once you have an official result on record, it's virtually impossible to resist trying to beat it at every subsequent comp. Which is OK, since that is kinda the point!


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## Old Tom (Jul 26, 2018)

mark49152 said:


> Quite the opposite. Once you have an official result on record, it's virtually impossible to resist trying to beat it at every subsequent comp. Which is OK, since that is kinda the point!



Sounds a bit like Poe's "Descent into the Maelstrom." But I'm game.


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## mafergut (Jul 26, 2018)

mark49152 said:


> Quite the opposite. Once you have an official result on record, it's virtually impossible to resist trying to beat it at every subsequent comp. Which is OK, since that is kinda the point!


Oh my! You're right! I'm lucky that I have lots of events where I can register a result for the first time in upcoming competitions. Probably my next 3x3 average will be bery bad, just because of trying to beat my current one.


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## newtonbase (Jul 26, 2018)

There was a thread on Facebook asking if your n/n MBLD PB was better or worse than your best 3BLD success streak. I have 7/7 but pretty sure my 3BLD streak was very low so when I got successes on my first 3 practice solves at lunch I went with it and ended up with 9. They were fairly slow but not overly cautious so I'm pretty happy with it.
How about the rest of you blinders?


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## Mike Hughey (Jul 26, 2018)

I'm pretty sure my best 3BLD streak is way beyond my best multiBLD n/n result. I just checked my timer (where I only store solves that are not for online competitions), and even though it was reset just 99 solves ago, I have a streak of 14 successes in it. My best n/n multiBLD is 14/14. I'm pretty sure I've had an average of 25 before (with only one DNF) - I suspect that one had a streak of at least 17 or 18. I wouldn't be surprised if I've had a streak of 25 or more before, but I haven't kept track.


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## SpartanSailor (Jul 26, 2018)

Given my MBLD result has only yeilded success once (2/4)... easily my 3BLD success has exceeded that. 

Although, I think my best 3BLD success rate is 5 or 6 in a row. But getting more than 2 in a row exceptionally rare. 

I guess I’ll just have to do more MBLD to up the ante some.


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## pglewis (Jul 26, 2018)

My best n/n is still an untimed 2/2 that was possibly over 20 mins. Holding out hope for much better soon


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## Mike Hughey (Jul 26, 2018)

My guess would be that only a few of the very best multiBLDers might actually have a bigger n/n multi than their longest 3BLD streak. To do that, you'd probably have to practice multiBLD a lot more than 3BLD.

To me, one of the most impressive odd stats out there ever is Tim Habermaas's official competition 3BLD streak, visible on the WCA statistics page:


3x3x3 Blindfolded longest success streak
*Person* *Length* *Best* *Avg* *Worst* *When?*
Tim Habermaas 71 1:15.00 1:56.31 3:50.28 Nov 2009 - Apr 2013 

71 in a row! Just incredible!! It will be a while before someone beats that with an n/n multiBLD result, I think.


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## pglewis (Jul 26, 2018)

40yearstosolve said:


> I also have new news! I just managed not only a sub-2 minute but actually now have beaten my previous best of 1:38 with a slick 1:31! And it wasn’t a terribly easy solve either! I am flabbergasted! It came out of nowhere, especially when I consider recently that I have only been doing one or two solves a day and had my first day off yesterday. It seems the brain continues to bury the knowledge deeper and more firmly with time even when you’re not practising.



Congrats! I've also noticed while learning new things that my brain continues to absorb for a few days even without practice. That's harder to do now, I have to keep exercising my case recognition with a lot more last layer algs. 

F2L will continue to improve for a long time and you're well on your way, you might want to look into 2-look OLL soon. That'll ensure you can always solve OLL in 2 steps worst case and only requires 10 algs... some of which are short and easy and a few you surely already know.


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## newtonbase (Jul 26, 2018)

Mike Hughey said:


> My guess would be that only a few of the very best multiBLDers might actually have a bigger n/n multi than their longest 3BLD streak. To do that, you'd probably have to practice multiBLD a lot more than 3BLD.


Shivam has a 44 streak against his 48/48.


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## SpartanSailor (Jul 26, 2018)

Mike Hughey said:


> My guess would be that only a few of the very best multiBLDers might actually have a bigger n/n multi than their longest 3BLD streak. To do that, you'd probably have to practice multiBLD a lot more than 3BLD.
> 
> To me, one of the most impressive odd stats out there ever is Tim Habermaas's official competition 3BLD streak, visible on the WCA statistics page:
> 
> ...


Is that 71 comps in a row with at least one success in a comp? Or is that 71 consecutive success (3 per comp for 23 comps and then 2 at the 24th comp) without a DNF?


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## Mike Hughey (Jul 26, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> Is that 71 comps in a row with at least one success in a comp? Or is that 71 consecutive success (3 per comp for 23 comps and then 2 at the 24th comp) without a DNF?


The latter. 71 consecutive successes! And actually he got first and third solve at a comp, then 3 per round for 23 rounds (some of the comps had 2 rounds), then first and third solve in the next round.


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## SpartanSailor (Jul 26, 2018)

Mike Hughey said:


> The latter. 71 consecutive successes! And actually he got first and third solve at a comp, then 3 per round for 23 rounds (some of the comps had 2 rounds), then first and third solve in the next round.


Well.... I just can’t imagine. 

Inspired by this, I have managed a 3BLD streak of 2 so far. Lol... untimed, of course. We will see if I am able to extend that to 3 or even, *gasp*, 4!


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## SpartanSailor (Jul 26, 2018)

Well I got to 4, missed 1 by a flipped edge I forgot to memo (but remembered seeing it), then got 2 more. That’s 6/7 on the days practice. I don’t recall being that consistent before. And the average was sub 3:30... not too shabby.

Edit to add.... Then of course, as is always my frustration, I went on to get 3 DNFs in the weekly comp. And because I couldn’t recall my memo. I don’t feel like i was rushing anymore than i was when I got 6/7 leading up to my weekly comp attempt. But that is just annoying.


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## pglewis (Jul 27, 2018)

mbld day: 4/7, a +2, and I was _just_ over on time before the penalty: 1:00:19 (46:26 / 13:53). 

After having chronic issues with edge execution for the past two weeks I was over the moon that I got 6/7 on edges. One was off by a twisted corner, another off by a 3-cycle of corners, and one was all fouled up due to memo fail. 

Memo ran longer than I wanted due to a trace mistake I had to straighten out plus my brain really slows down after about 40 mins. I also had to jump up and grab my blindfold right before memo'ing the last/first cube because I forgot it. Execution was faster than anticipated so I almost made up for it. I'll try 'er again tomorrow or Sat. 



Postmortem edit: Actually, my memo didn't fail at any point. I thought I had mixed up and used the end of a different edge memo on cube 2 at the time, so I thought that was the prob but it was a trace and execution error combo: 

1: good
2: edge trace error (L instead of J), corner execution error
3: good
4: trace error (bizarre: memo'ed O instead of N twice)
5: good
6: good
7: twisted corner, goofy trace error

So, my memory held for what I put there and only one weird execution error in the bunch.


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## pglewis (Jul 27, 2018)

Also:


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## newtonbase (Jul 27, 2018)

pglewis said:


> mbld day: 4/7, a +2, and I was _just_ over on time before the penalty: 1:00:19 (46:26 / 13:53).
> 
> After having chronic issues with edge execution for the past two weeks I was over the moon that I got 6/7 on edges. One was off by a twisted corner, another off by a 3-cycle of corners, and one was all fouled up due to memo fail.
> 
> ...


Well done. Now that you know your capacity for the hour you can work on increasing it.
I sometimes switch pieces with their opposites too. I men's V instead of X on one yesterday but luckily realised during execution so still got a success.


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## pglewis (Jul 27, 2018)

newtonbase said:


> Well done. Now that you know your capacity for the hour you can work on increasing it.
> I sometimes switch pieces with their opposites too. I men's V instead of X on one yesterday but luckily realised during execution so still got a success.



Yeah, the swapping is common enough for me but the reason the O/N confusion was bizarre is O was already solved and I still trace using fingers so it should have been covered. It was my weird dyslexia of looking right at N and memo'ing O anyway. 

I'm thinking a solid day or even two of sighted execution (maximize tracing practice) and untimed 3bld (was very helpful for yesterday's attempt) before my next attempt. 8 is probably doable soon but I'd like to see comfort on time for 7 first.


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## mafergut (Jul 27, 2018)

pglewis said:


> Yeah, the swapping is common enough for me but the reason the O/N confusion was bizarre is O was already solved and I still trace using fingers so it should have been covered. It was my weird dyslexia of looking right at N and memo'ing O anyway.
> 
> I'm thinking a solid day or even two of sighted execution (maximize tracing practice) and untimed 3bld (was very helpful for yesterday's attempt) before my next attempt. 8 is probably doable soon but I'd like to see comfort on time for 7 first.


I think I should start practising 3BLD again... I see all your progress, guys, and it makes me envious. But it's difficult for me to find the time and, most of all, the conditions to practise BLD. My house is a constant party of noise 

I already uploaded and got approved a picture to my brand new WCA profile just in case any of you is curious what the real face is behind that 3x3 cube avatar.


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## Mike Hughey (Jul 27, 2018)

mafergut said:


> My house is a constant party of noise


That's the sort of thing that can make you deadly awesome in competition. People who practice in environments like that can become impervious to distraction!


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## pglewis (Jul 27, 2018)

mafergut said:


> But it's difficult for me to find the time and, most of all, the conditions to practise BLD. My house is a constant party of noise



I learned 3bld a year and a half ago now but it's been slow progress because a single attempt was so mentally taxing for a long time. I really had to be ready for an attempt vs. the mindlessness of 3x3 where I could squeeze in practice whenever. It's gradually getting better though and the multi push makes a 3bld solve feel like a light snack now. 



Mike Hughey said:


> That's the sort of thing that can make you deadly awesome in competition. People who practice in environments like that can become impervious to distraction!



Yeah, I'm totally stacking the deck in my favor for these attempts, picking a time of day when my brain is clicking at its best and with headphones playing ocean waves. I won't have either luxury at comp. When I have an official attempt coming up I do distraction practice with 3bld at the coffee shop a few days a week and it's a big difference.


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## Old Tom (Jul 27, 2018)

Mike Hughey said:


> That's the sort of thing that can make you deadly awesome in competition. People who practice in environments like that can become impervious to distraction!



I guess I do have a one-up on you guys. Being deaf, as in REALLY deaf, I am oblivious to noise distractions (though not to vibrations, clumping feet, etc.)

And, big news, for me anyway, I just this morning started to study BLD. Some of the videos have good captions and take things slowly, and some of the text sources are good also. Tons of stuff on Google about memo techniques. It all seems to make sense to me, though surprised there are so many ways to go about it. I will try Old Pochmann, Speffz letter pairs, probably "rooms" imaging, etc. I do not use T-Perm, J-Perm, etc. in my current sighted method, but am already learning those, easy enough, though setup moves may be a problem. Still have to get the Aa-Xx lettering system to be automatic, just drill and practice. Maybe by this weekend I can try some fully sighted solves, but while doing some primitive memo anyway.

Long, long way to go, so wish me luck. Expecting lots of DNFs, no problem, since you guys still get them.

Would allowing myself 30 minutes initially be too much, or would that much time make retaining the memo too difficult?


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## mark49152 (Jul 27, 2018)

@Old Tom - great to hear! Good luck and have fun.

To answer your question, different people will give different advice, by mine would be to practise your method sighted until you have fully grasped it, then move on to memo. For memo, keep reviewing until you can recall it no problem, even if that takes several reviews. Don't worry about how long it takes. If you've reviewed very thoroughly you will probably find you can still remember it the next day


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## Old Tom (Jul 27, 2018)

mark49152 said:


> @Old Tom - great to hear! Good luck and have fun.
> 
> To answer your question, different people will give different advice, by mine would be to practise your method sighted until you have fully grasped it, then move on to memo. For memo, keep reviewing until you can recall it no problem, even if that takes several reviews. Don't worry about how long it takes. If you've reviewed very thoroughly you will probably find you can still remember it the next day



Will do, thx. But will start on memo techniques on the side anyway, the whole idea of it is intriguing. Just watched a video of a performance cuber who gave a Ted Lecture (with captions). He called a young lady from the audience onto the stage, had her quickly memo room images, and then she repeated them to him while he did a blind solve. (Of course, if she had made a mistake he would have solved it anyway. But she didn't.)


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## pglewis (Jul 27, 2018)

My first 3bld success at home and my official success (right up against the time limit) were easily the two most exciting moments for me cubing thus far. A reasonable n/n multi will likely be a loud moment. 

I started with sighted corner execution to get the setups and mechanics down and confident. There are fewer corners than edges and csTimer will even provide corner-only scrambles, selecting "3x3" and "corners only" at the top. Perfectly fine and a good idea to work on learning the letter scheme, tracing, and the memorization tactics separately at the same time but I found it easier to get confident with the different parts independently before trying to put them all together. 

The fine folks here will steer you right, if it weren't for Mark and Mark egging me on I'd probably still be at 3-4 cubes in multi.


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## Mike Hughey (Jul 27, 2018)

Regarding time for first solve, my first attempt took me more than 45 minutes. Spending a long time means your memory gets better, not worse, since it means you can review it again and again to make sure it's solid.


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## Old Tom (Jul 27, 2018)

Here is an interesting question about what the regs allow in BLD. I do know that you are not allowed to write anything down during memo. But I also do know that some of you use audio memo methods. Are you allowed to speak out loud during a solve? Regardless of the answer to that, my question is: can I use sign language as part of the memo and recall? In particular, I suspect that I could do a "brute force" memo of the eight corner stickers by signing the letters on my hand (note to you UK guys: American signed letters are on one hand). I don't have to actually see them during the solve. The hand shape in my mind would be quite vivid, fed in part by my hand making the letters. 

Allowed? @SpartanSailor, what do you think? Want to try it yourself?


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## Mike Hughey (Jul 27, 2018)

You're not allowed to be disruptive to other competitors. So that's the limitation on speaking aloud during a solve. I occasionally am whispering to myself, but I keep it really quiet. More often I'm just mouthing the words to do my "audio" memory, hearing it in my head.

As for signing to memorize, I don't see why not. Just take a look at old Maskow videos back when he was first pursuing the WR, and you'll see he made hand motions all over the place.  I still often make motions to help me memorize, especially during multiBLD, although I'm not quite as animated as Maskow used to be.


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## newtonbase (Jul 27, 2018)

Old Tom said:


> Will do, thx. But will start on memo techniques on the side anyway, the whole idea of it is intriguing. Just watched a video of a performance cuber who gave a Ted Lecture (with captions). He called a young lady from the audience onto the stage, had her quickly memo room images, and then she repeated them to him while he did a blind solve. (Of course, if she had made a mistake he would have solved it anyway. But she didn't.)


I saw that video very early on in my blind training.I can't recall exhibit was but it was very helpful in understanding the theory behind memo. I'd suggest using more images per room than he does though.


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## h2f (Jul 29, 2018)

I'm closer to sub-10 barrier in single. I got 10.67 yesterday. 


Spoiler



Reconstruction
Time: 10.67
Scramble: D B2 F2 L2 D' F2 R2 D2 F2 D' F2 L' U2 B F' D L2 B D2 L' U
x2 // inspection
F D L R2 F D' // cross
R' U R y' R' U' R // 1st pair
U' R U' R' U' L U L' // 2nd pair
U2 L' U L U2 L' U L // 3rd pair
U' R U' R' U R U R' // 4th pair
U2 l' U2 L U L' U l // 1LLL
U // AUF

http://bit.ly/2Ai8SfU


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## muchacho (Jul 29, 2018)

OH PB single: 15.894 (was 16.447 from 7 weeks ago)

Probably not the most efficient, but no pauses and pretty fast turning.



Spoiler



R2 U2 L2 F2 U B2 L2 B2 D2 R2 U B L2 U' F' L U L2 U2 F U2

z2 y
U M U2 M' U2 L U' Lw' U2 L' U L' z2
Lw' U' Lw2 U M U2 M2 L U' L' U2 M U2 Lw' U' Lw
U F R U R' U' F'
M' U' M U2 M' U M' U2 M U2 M' U2 M2 U' M' U2 M'

52 STM
3.27 TPS


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## Old Tom (Jul 29, 2018)

Well, starting third day of learning BLD. Still at the base of the mountain, but have established camp, and am pretty well supplied with videos and text manuals. Have done small parts of a solve, sighted, successfully but best described as "tortuous." Not yet considered the parity issue.

One thing is bothering me, advice please. Setup moves. They are not immediately obvious to me, but when I fiddle a bit (sighted, of course) I always get to the "oh yeah" moment. Then, likely as not, I will have forgotten what I did when it is time to reverse the setup.

So? Will practice be enough? Or, do I need to make a list, drill and memorize setups? And, most especially, when it comes time to do an actual blind attempt, do you guys plan the setup during the inspection, or just handle it from experience during the solve? Or?


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## openseas (Jul 29, 2018)

Old Tom said:


> Well, starting third day of learning BLD. Still at the base of the mountain, but have established camp, and am pretty well supplied with videos and text manuals. Have done small parts of a solve, sighted, successfully but best described as "tortuous." Not yet considered the parity issue.
> 
> One thing is bothering me, advice please. Setup moves. They are not immediately obvious to me, but when I fiddle a bit (sighted, of course) I always get to the "oh yeah" moment. Then, likely as not, I will have forgotten what I did when it is time to reverse the setup.
> 
> So? Will practice be enough? Or, do I need to make a list, drill and memorize setups? And, most especially, when it comes time to do an actual blind attempt, do you guys plan the setup during the inspection, or just handle it from experience during the solve? Or?



Yes, make a list and drill it. Once you have a taste of success, then, your obvious goal will be speed. No shortcut but drill & practice.


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## One Wheel (Jul 29, 2018)

Old Tom said:


> One thing is bothering me, advice please. Setup moves. They are not immediately obvious to me, but when I fiddle a bit (sighted, of course) I always get to the "oh yeah" moment. Then, likely as not, I will have forgotten what I did when it is time to reverse the setup.
> 
> So? Will practice be enough? Or, do I need to make a list, drill and memorize setups? And, most especially, when it comes time to do an actual blind attempt, do you guys plan the setup during the inspection, or just handle it from experience during the solve? Or?



As a fellow rank amateur blind solver (~100 attempts, I think 4 or 5 successes mostly either tracing or memo errors): I picture the piece that I'm setting up as I'm setting it up. There are usually only 2 or 3 logical setup sequences for any given sticker at most, and with practice I'll settle on one setup that I always use.


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## pglewis (Jul 29, 2018)

Old Tom said:


> One thing is bothering me, advice please. Setup moves. They are not immediately obvious to me, but when I fiddle a bit (sighted, of course) I always get to the "oh yeah" moment. Then, likely as not, I will have forgotten what I did when it is time to reverse the setup.
> 
> So? Will practice be enough? Or, do I need to make a list, drill and memorize setups? And, most especially, when it comes time to do an actual blind attempt, do you guys plan the setup during the inspection, or just handle it from experience during the solve? Or?



Practice will do the trick. I "recently" (several months ago by now) changed my setups for K/V/G/J thinking the transition would be a snap. It has actually taken me a little while to get confident with them though, I had the old setups in muscle memory to a degree. I understood and could visualize the new ones perfectly but in the end: they were new. 

Setups for OP was a big "aha!" moment for me in general and it has done wonders for my spatial IQ. You'll get there though, just the boring old advice for now unless there's something specific giving you trouble: practice it.


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## newtonbase (Jul 29, 2018)

Old Tom said:


> Well, starting third day of learning BLD. Still at the base of the mountain, but have established camp, and am pretty well supplied with videos and text manuals. Have done small parts of a solve, sighted, successfully but best described as "tortuous." Not yet considered the parity issue.
> 
> One thing is bothering me, advice please. Setup moves. They are not immediately obvious to me, but when I fiddle a bit (sighted, of course) I always get to the "oh yeah" moment. Then, likely as not, I will have forgotten what I did when it is time to reverse the setup.
> 
> So? Will practice be enough? Or, do I need to make a list, drill and memorize setups? And, most especially, when it comes time to do an actual blind attempt, do you guys plan the setup during the inspection, or just handle it from experience during the solve? Or?


Choose your setups carefully as you don't want to have to change them. Drilling should mean that you only need to recall the letter and not have to think where it is or how to set it up. Like @pglewis I've changed a few and it's hard.


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## pglewis (Jul 29, 2018)

I'm sidetracked fiddling with code for my letter pair list. I have simple interface to search for my images by letter pair which already beats scrolling through the old spreadsheet but sometimes I'd really like a mouse interface to enter the pair with a couple clicks because I'm actively practicing and the keyboard is too far to reach. I have an interface for it now, just need to wire it up:


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## Old Tom (Jul 29, 2018)

pglewis said:


> Practice will do the trick. I "recently" (several months ago by now) changed my setups for K/V/G/J thinking the transition would be a snap. It has actually taken me a little while to get confident with them though, I had the old setups in muscle memory to a degree. I understood and could visualize the new ones perfectly but in the end: they were new.
> 
> Setups for OP was a big "aha!" moment for me in general and it has done wonders from my spatial IQ. You'll get there though, just the boring old advice for now unless there's something specific giving you trouble: practice it.



I will try the practice route, if only because it is the lazier approach, and because I am in no real hurry. Plus, more satisfying to do it mostly on my own, same as doing F2L just by intuition.


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## openseas (Jul 30, 2018)

@David Zemdegs / Your son is a great person, we're so lucky to have such a role model!

First time met him in person, of course, watched his interview many times and heard many stories before, so knew he is not just a great cuber but actually meeting him, and seeing him how considerate he is. I think you achieved the greatest goal of your life!


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## David Zemdegs (Jul 30, 2018)

I was watching the live stream this morning. I guess we all thought Max was going to win. Feliks really is amazing, not just his skills, but as you say he is incredibly humble and always has time for everyone.


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## openseas (Jul 30, 2018)

David Zemdegs said:


> I was watching the live stream this morning. I guess we all thought Max was going to win. Feliks really is amazing, not just his skills, but as you say he is incredibly humble and always has time for everyone.



Yes, I was rooting for him and very happy for his win!

btw, I've got two success in BLD yesterday (1:50 DNF, 2:20, 2:15), very close to getting a mean. Failed at MBLD both attempts (5 or 6 flipped edges, 1~2 twisted corners) - but seeing corner comm improvement.
As all of you know, didn't practice 333 at all but I've got Feliks' sign on my back of the sweat shirts right before my attempt - got decent look ahead. Just forgot anti-sune, A perm, etc. Speaking of A perm, I was trying to do Gianfranco's new A perm but forgot whether it was Aa or Ab.... hesitated like 10s and did normal Ab perm on Aa situation. And my son defended his 3BLD title as US National champion of 3BLD


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## adimare (Jul 30, 2018)

Just got my first 4BLD success on camera!






It's a bit of a cheat, because that was my 3rd attempt at the same scramble (memo was wrong on first try, messed up the centers on the second one), but hey, I still solved a 4x4 without seeing it 

I have lots of trouble coming up with comms for the centers. Looked through a few of Brest's reconstructions to get ideas but there's only 12 4x4 BLD reconstructions in his website and not all of them use the buffer I do so I end up doing pretty weird stuff when I run into a case I never practiced during sighted solves (for UBL->DBL->RDF I did [d' x: [2D2, 2R U' 2R']], and that can't be right). Does anyone know of any good comm lists for 4x4 centers?


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## openseas (Jul 30, 2018)

adimare said:


> (for UBL->DBL->RDF I did [d' x: [2D2, 2R U' 2R']], and that can't be right).



[U L’: [L’ U2 L, d’]]


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## SpartanSailor (Jul 31, 2018)

Old Tom said:


> Here is an interesting question about what the regs allow in BLD. I do know that you are not allowed to write anything down during memo. But I also do know that some of you use audio memo methods. Are you allowed to speak out loud during a solve? Regardless of the answer to that, my question is: can I use sign language as part of the memo and recall? In particular, I suspect that I could do a "brute force" memo of the eight corner stickers by signing the letters on my hand (note to you UK guys: American signed letters are on one hand). I don't have to actually see them during the solve. The hand shape in my mind would be quite vivid, fed in part by my hand making the letters.
> 
> Allowed? @SpartanSailor, what do you think? Want to try it yourself?


I actually do and have used some signs to help trigger my memo memory. If something particularly difficult to recall... I’ll add a sign to help my recall. My first success in a comp I used a few hands shapes specifically to help me engage more memory and help strengthen my memo.


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## Old Tom (Jul 31, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> I actually do and have used some signs to help trigger my memo memory. If something particularly difficult to recall... I’ll add a sign to help my recall. My first success in a comp I used a few hands shapes specifically to help me engage more memory and help strengthen my memo.



Good to know. I will likely definitely use signs, especially the alphabet, as a tool for memo. Muscle-memory of the hand shape should be very helpful for short-term memory. Corners?

Making very slow progress, but still, it is progress. A couple of successful sighted OP solves. But needed to correct some mistakes along the way, will not be able to do that blindfolded. Need to get mistake-free. But learning all the letter positions, etc. as I go.

@pglewis, you are right. Setups really develop spatial-IQ. Reversing my setups is still a really weak spot.


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## Mike Hughey (Jul 31, 2018)

Wow, @Old Tom , that is good progress! You'll be there before you know it!


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## adimare (Jul 31, 2018)

openseas said:


> [U L’: [L’ U2 L, d’]]


Thanks!

@Old Tom I use my feet to remember which corners I need to twist. Right foot is clockwise, left foot is counter clockwise, I imagine a square on the ground and place the pertinent foot on the corner that corresponds to the corner I need to twist, if the corner's on the top face I raise my heel, if it's in the bottom face I don't. It's pretty useful.


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## SpartanSailor (Jul 31, 2018)

openseas said:


> Yes, I was rooting for him and very happy for his win!
> 
> btw, I've got two success in BLD yesterday (1:50 DNF, 2:20, 2:15), very close to getting a mean. Failed at MBLD both attempts (5 or 6 flipped edges, 1~2 twisted corners) - but seeing corner comm improvement.
> As all of you know, didn't practice 333 at all but I've got Feliks' sign on my back of the sweat shirts right before my attempt - got decent look ahead. Just forgot anti-sune, A perm, etc. Speaking of A perm, I was trying to do Gianfranco's new A perm but forgot whether it was Aa or Ab.... hesitated like 10s and did normal Ab perm on Aa situation. And my son defended his 3BLD title as US National champion of 3BLD


I saw the streaming with Jeff doing his 3BLD for finals. Pretty cool to see that happen “live”.


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## SpartanSailor (Jul 31, 2018)

Old Tom said:


> Good to know. I will likely definitely use signs, especially the alphabet, as a tool for memo. Muscle-memory of the hand shape should be very helpful for short-term memory. Corners?
> 
> Making very slow progress, but still, it is progress. A couple of successful sighted OP solves. But needed to correct some mistakes along the way, will not be able to do that blindfolded. Need to get mistake-free. But learning all the letter positions, etc. as I go.
> 
> @pglewis, you are right. Setups really develop spatial-IQ. Reversing my setups is still a really weak spot.


I still do LOTS of sighted solves... it helps me just practice the set-ups and UN-setups. Improves muscle memory and is just generally a little fun.


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## SpartanSailor (Jul 31, 2018)

adimare said:


> Thanks!
> 
> @Old Tom I use my feet to remember which corners I need to twist. Right foot is clockwise, left foot is counter clockwise, I imagine a square on the ground and place the pertinent foot on the corner that corresponds to the corner I need to twist, if the corner's on the top face I raise my heel, if it's in the bottom face I don't. It's pretty useful.


I can usually remember corner twists... it’s the flipped edges I forget... I like this “foot” method. I may add something like that to my memo tricks.


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## openseas (Jul 31, 2018)

Oh, one interesting thing during my MBLD attempt.

On my 2nd attempt, I memo'd corner of the first cube which was odd number then swapped UL/UD (for edges) but it also ended up with odd numbers. No way, I spent next 5~6 min to re-trace both corner and edge but always the same result. So, I called the judge and asked him whether it was a miscramble - I thought it might have been a corner twist thing. Then, moved on to the next cube. But the judge came back and said it was the correct scramble. So, I put it as the 2nd to the last cube (last cube will be my normal 3BLD thing) and moved on. I think I wasted total 7 minutes on the first cube / trying to figure out what was wrong. When my memo was almost done, reached that cube with the problem, no way, nothing wrong. Even letter pair I memorized for the corner was matching at all - like a completely new scramble. What happened? I guess I picked the wrong color orientation. Anyway, even with that waste of the time, overall 11 cube memo and execution time was ok, I didn't have to rush, was able to finish 59 min except 5~6 cubes had edge twists.

Have you guys had similar experience before?


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## pglewis (Jul 31, 2018)

pglewis said:


> I'm sidetracked fiddling with code for my letter pair list. I have simple interface to search for my images by letter pair which already beats scrolling through the old spreadsheet but sometimes I'd really like a mouse interface to enter the pair with a couple clicks because I'm actively practicing and the keyboard is too far to reach. I have an interface for it now, just need to wire it up



Life is good, I can now search via keyboard input or just a couple clicks with mouse only. The later will prove really useful when I'm doing untimed 3bld while looking up troublesome images as I go, with cube in hand (accuracy practice).


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## h2f (Jul 31, 2018)

adimare said:


> Does anyone know of any good comm lists for 4x4 centers?



http://bestsiteever.ru/
UBl is pretty common. 


openseas said:


> Have you guys had similar experience before?



Yeah. I did few 5bld attempts with wrong orientation. I've noticed it when I couldn fix parity.


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## Old Tom (Jul 31, 2018)

Hey, this is fun! (Though my lady friend does not agree.)

Just solved all eight corners blind. (Actually watching TV while not paying attention to it, but not looking at cube.) All thanks to the HeN running a KiloMeter, then FLOaTing on Water to cool off. Those upper case letters signed on my hand. The KM came before the HN, but that did not seem to bother me, I remembered that. This took, I'm guessing, about 15-20 minutes, no rush or pressure. And zero problem with memory - it was the setups took effort.

Now, question: Corners are solved, but that's nine memo letters (a new cycle was needed). Do I need to run the parity alg now? But won't that give me an unwanted swap of two solved corners? But I am saving edges for later, gotta learn the three algs, and get them to stick.


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## openseas (Jul 31, 2018)

Old Tom said:


> Hey, this is fun! (Though my lady friend does not agree.)
> 
> Just solved all eight corners blind. (Actually watching TV while not paying attention to it, but not looking at cube.) All thanks to the HeN running a KiloMeter, then FLOaTing on Water to cool off. Those upper case letters signed on my hand. The KM came before the HN, but that did not seem to bother me, I remembered that. This took, I'm guessing, about 15-20 minutes, no rush or pressure. And zero problem with memory - it was the setups took effort.
> 
> Now, question: Corners are solved, but that's nine memo letters (a new cycle was needed). Do I need to run the parity alg now? But won't that give me an unwanted swap of two solved corners? But I am saving edges for later, gotta learn the three algs, and get them to stick.



Yes, whenever you have odd number of targets, you have to do parity.
FYI,
1) if you have odd number of corners, you should have odd number of edge targets. (Exception - some people do swap of two edges to make them even but don't worry about it for now)
2) Number of targets:
- Corner : 7 - solved or twisted pieces + number of cycle break
- Edge: 11 - solved or flipped pieces + number of cycle break

Since you had 9 corner targets, that means you had 2 cycle breaks. But you said only one cycle break - I guess you used OP for corner twist.
So, my guess, you had one corner twist, one cycle break = 7 - 1 (twist) + 1 (cycle break) = 7 targets. (taking out two from the twisted targets).


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## pglewis (Jul 31, 2018)

Old Tom said:


> Hey, this is fun! (Though my lady friend does not agree.)
> 
> Just solved all eight corners blind. (Actually watching TV while not paying attention to it, but not looking at cube.) All thanks to the HeN running a KiloMeter, then FLOaTing on Water to cool off. Those upper case letters signed on my hand. The KM came before the HN, but that did not seem to bother me, I remembered that. This took, I'm guessing, about 15-20 minutes, no rush or pressure. And zero problem with memory - it was the setups took effort.
> 
> Now, question: Corners are solved, but that's nine memo letters (a new cycle was needed). Do I need to run the parity alg now? But won't that give me an unwanted swap of two solved corners? But I am saving edges for later, gotta learn the three algs, and get them to stick.



You're more than halfway there, letter scheme and tracing are the same concepts for edges. Just a couple more images to retain than corners on average.


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## chtiger (Jul 31, 2018)

Old Tom said:


> Now, question: Corners are solved, but that's nine memo letters (a new cycle was needed). Do I need to run the parity alg now? But won't that give me an unwanted swap of two solved corners? But I am saving edges for later, gotta learn the three algs, and get them to stick.


The parity alg will swap two of the solved corners, but since those two corners also get swapped during each edge piece that you solve and you will have an odd number of edges, those two corners will end up back in the correct position


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## chtiger (Jul 31, 2018)

New 3BLD PB of 1:13.83. It was an easy 10/6 scramble, but it was also almost 7 seconds better than my previous PB, so it was a good solve too.

Then tried only my 3rd practice MBLD since 2016. No such luck there. 6/10 59:02. It's the first time I've done 10 under an hour, so that's good at least. Errors were a twisted corner on the 3BLD cube, did parity alg on last cube when there wasn't parity, did an edge pair from wrong cube (was similar to edge pair I was supposed to do), and one unknown (maybe undid setup wrong)


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## Old Tom (Jul 31, 2018)

chtiger said:


> The parity alg will swap two of the solved corners, but since those two corners also get swapped during each edge piece that you solve and you will have an odd number of edges, those two corners will end up back in the correct position



But, how am I going to know they are the correct corners that get swapped while doing an odd nbr of edges? Might I not wind up with two pairs of incorrect corners?


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## openseas (Jul 31, 2018)

Old Tom said:


> But, how am I going to know they are the correct corners that get swapped while doing an odd nbr of edges? Might I not wind up with two pairs of incorrect corners?



There are corresponding parity algorithm per method.
If you use OP corner, parity algorithm swaps UB & UL together.
For example, OP for both corner and edge, R perm does that.


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## JohnnyReggae (Aug 1, 2018)

Some new toys arrived 

Yuxin 5x5, GTS3m, and GAN354m.

I wanted to try the Yuxin 5x5 even though I'm quite happy with my BoChuang. I put some magnets in it last night and will reassemble when I get home from work later.

The GTS3 is an interesting cube. I don't feel the ridges when solving. It is fast and the magnets are great. It has the GTS feel similar to the GTS2. The corner cutting is not the best but I haven't played with the tensions at all yet and the cube is stock OOTB. I'm keen to try the new tensioning mechanism.

The GAN354m is simply amazing OOTB. The green nuts and the magnets are both perfect for me. The cube is fast, smooth, and very .... very quiet. It is an instant OH main for me even though it doesn't hold it's cube-shape as well as the Valk Power M. The smooth and easy turning compensates for that. The size is great for me as I have smaller hands. Very happy with the GAN


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## h2f (Aug 1, 2018)

JohnnyReggae said:


> The GAN354m is simply amazing OOTB. The green nuts and the magnets are both perfect for me. The cube is fast, smooth, and very .... very quiet. It is an instant OH main for me even though it doesn't hold it's cube-shape as well as the Valk Power M. The smooth and easy turning compensates for that. The size is great for me as I have smaller hands. Very happy with the GAN



Intresting. I like stickerless cube and I like Gan so I think I must buy it.


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## pglewis (Aug 1, 2018)

I should be back to drilling blind today in prep for another 7 cube multi attempt tomorrow. Got sidetracked with this letter pair app, as it goes, but it's worth the effort. 

I refactored things so it's less ad-hoc and more structured and ready for expansion and threw some Bootstrap at it so it looks prettier than my usual "yep, a developer did the design" look. The next major thing is to restructure the data so the images are individual rows; they're currently just a single comma separated list 1:1 with letter pairs. Once that's done I can attack add/edit/delete on individual images in the list which will take care of the basic CRUD to manage images. And once _that's_ done the structure can be duplicated for a separate list for audio.


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## Old Tom (Aug 1, 2018)

pglewis said:


> I should be back to drilling blind today in prep for another 7 cube multi attempt tomorrow. Got sidetracked with this letter pair app, as it goes, but it's worth the effort.
> 
> I refactored things so it's less ad-hoc and more structured and ready for expansion and threw some Bootstrap at it so it looks prettier than my usual "yep, a developer did the design" look. The next major thing is to restructure the data so the images are individual rows; they're currently just a single comma separated list 1:1 with letter pairs. Once that's done I can attack add/edit/delete on individual images in the list which will take care of the basic CRUD to manage images. And once _that's_ done the structure can be duplicated for a separate list for audio.
> 
> ...



I assume (hope) you plan to make this available. For a fee would be fine. I can think of lots of options you can add, but I'm sure you already have (thought of them).


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## Duncan Bannon (Aug 1, 2018)

pglewis said:


> I should be back to drilling blind today in prep for another 7 cube multi attempt tomorrow. Got sidetracked with this letter pair app, as it goes, but it's worth the effort.
> 
> I refactored things so it's less ad-hoc and more structured and ready for expansion and threw some Bootstrap at it so it looks prettier than my usual "yep, a developer did the design" look. The next major thing is to restructure the data so the images are individual rows; they're currently just a single comma separated list 1:1 with letter pairs. Once that's done I can attack add/edit/delete on individual images in the list which will take care of the basic CRUD to manage images. And once _that's_ done the structure can be duplicated for a separate list for audio.
> 
> ...


Oh my goodness. I need this. Any idea when it might be available? Thanks


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## Old Tom (Aug 1, 2018)

pglewis said:


> I should be back to drilling blind today in prep for another 7 cube multi attempt tomorrow. Got sidetracked with this letter pair app, as it goes, but it's worth the effort.
> 
> I refactored things so it's less ad-hoc and more structured and ready for expansion and threw some Bootstrap at it so it looks prettier than my usual "yep, a developer did the design" look. The next major thing is to restructure the data so the images are individual rows; they're currently just a single comma separated list 1:1 with letter pairs. Once that's done I can attack add/edit/delete on individual images in the list which will take care of the basic CRUD to manage images. And once _that's_ done the structure can be duplicated for a separate list for audio.
> 
> ...



And BTW, the most important option to make it useful to me would be the capability to alter the color scheme. For example, I also use yellow at U, but blue at F.


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## pglewis (Aug 1, 2018)

Old Tom said:


> I assume (hope) you plan to make this available. For a fee would be fine. I can think of lots of options you can add, but I'm sure you already have (thought of them).





Duncan Bannon said:


> Oh my goodness. I need this. Any idea when it might be available? Thanks



Whatever I do, if ultimately useful, I'll release as open source. Likely GPL2, or something similar.

The ultimate vision is a full stack client/server system, the idea being that people learning blind-- or just anyone with holes in their list-- could search for images from others' lists and add them to their own list with a mouse click. A ready-made, pre-vetted resource for building your own list. There are a lot of pieces that would be needed for that including hosting, users and authentication, a back-end relational database and some help on the server-side. 

A stand-alone version using local storage could be prototyped to minimum viable a lot faster without the sharing and back end server features and could be getting use long before a server hosting the full implementation would happen. 

My current prototyping is full stack with a MySQL database all running locally so I need to think about transitioning what I have to a self-contained single-page app. 

Also, I'm still a little ways from being ready to put a call out for volunteers but I could definitely eventually use some help from anyone with experience with node/express, design/SCSS/CSS, backbone/MV* frameworks, javascript in general, and SQL databases. In particular I'm very green with node and express on the server side but I muddle my way through. 

I'll update with progress either here or in a new thread if it gets that far. There are still some big pieces needed to be universally useful besides the entire server-side, including being able to define a custom letter scheme, configuration settings for color scheme and orientation, and import export facilities.


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## newtonbase (Aug 2, 2018)

First attempt at 5BLD since February and was a mess. Didn't memo all the x-centres and forgot to execute corners. There were plenty of other execution errors too as no piece types were correct. Memo was strong though. Need to find time to practice for UKs


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## h2f (Aug 2, 2018)

newtonbase said:


> Need to find time to practice for UKs



Good Luck!


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## SpartanSailor (Aug 5, 2018)

So this just happened....
Ao5 = 19.69

Only the 3rd or 4th time I’ve ever averaged a sub-20. I’m quite pleased. I’ve landed more low-20s and sub-20 singles is this practice session than I ever recall doing before in a group of 25. 

Time List:
1. 19.68 D2 R B U2 D R' U B R' U2 F' L2 U2 B' D2 F2 B U2 R2
2. (18.09) L2 U2 F2 L2 B2 U' F2 L2 D2 U R2 F D' F2 D' B2 U2 R' F L F
3. (22.12) F' L2 U2 L2 D L2 F2 R2 D2 F2 U' F2 R' D' B' U2 R' D B' L
4. 21.08 F2 L2 F2 R U2 R' U2 B2 L F2 D2 U' B R' B F' U' R2 D2 L
5. 18.32 U' B L' D R L B U' F L2 D' L2 D' B2 U' F2 U' R2 D2 R2

Edit to add:
Just looked at the ao25... 5 sub-20 singles and six 20.xx singles. That’s 11/25 in what I consider “fast” right now. I’ll take 1 in 5 sub-20 single right now. Of course, they didn’t come like that. Clearly.... those three in a tight pack and the others spread out a bit, but had a sting of 4 in a row 20.xx too. Overall, a good ao25 practice session.


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## pglewis (Aug 5, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> So this just happened....
> Ao5 = 19.69
> 
> Only the 3rd or 4th time I’ve ever averaged a sub-20. I’m quite pleased. I’ve landed more low-20s and sub-20 singles is this practice session than I ever recall doing before in a group of 25.
> ...



Awesome! I know you were a little frustrated at being plateaued or regressed recently, nice session there.


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## Old Tom (Aug 5, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> So this just happened....
> Ao5 = 19.
> 
> Only the 3rd or 4th time I’ve ever averaged a sub-20. I’m quite pleased. I’ve landed more low-20s and sub-20 singles is this practice session than I ever recall doing before in a group of 25.
> ...



And you were the guy who was gonna shelve 3x3 for a while. Maybe a more relaxed attitude helped?

My adventure into blind cubing is going slowly, though hopefully surely. Still doing sighted solves, but with lots of "not looking" while doing that. Setups, and particularly un-setups, give me grief. And I am making occasional execution errors, these *-Perm algs are new to me and not yet automatic. Tend to mix up the RUs and RU primes, etc. Can't afford any of those mistakes in blind. A little (well, a lot) unsure about keeping track of odd/even for parity, how to know where to shoot the buffer for a new cycle, how to know when the trace is complete, etc. But would rather figure out all those on my own before asking for help. (Though tips would be welcome.)


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## newtonbase (Aug 5, 2018)

Old Tom said:


> And you were the guy who was gonna shelve 3x3 for a while. Maybe a more relaxed attitude helped?
> 
> My adventure into blind cubing is going slowly, though hopefully surely. Still doing sighted solves, but with lots of "not looking" while doing that. Setups, and particularly un-setups, give me grief. And I am making occasional executions errors, these *-Perm algs are new to me and not yet automatic. Tend to mix up the RUs and RU primes, etc. Can't afford any of those mistakes in blind. A little (well, a lot) unsure about keeping track of odd/even for parity, how to know where to shoot the buffer for a new cycle, how to know when the trace is complete, etc. But would rather figure out all those on my own before asking for help. (Though tips would be welcome.)


Blind is hard work and unforgiving of errors but that makes it incredibly rewarding when success comes, which it will.
Tips/spoilers

Remember your letters in pairs. This makes for a shorter memo and it will be obvious when you have an odd number (parity) 
The cycle ends when you get to your buffer. You don't solve the buffer, just move on to an unsolved piece. It's useful if you have favourites to go to then it's easier to track if they are already in your memo. So for OP corners you'd always go to P first but if that piece has been done (you have P, V or K in your memo) you mught have L, T or C as next choice. You'll solve a sticker on that piece again as the end of the cycle.
To keep track of whether you have all pieces memo'd you start with a base number of 7 for corners and 11 for edges. Take 1 away for each piece that's already solved and add 1 for each new cycle. Assuming you solve 2 stickers for a twist or flip then add 1 for each of those too. If the number you get matches the number of letters in your memo then you are done.


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## Old Tom (Aug 5, 2018)

newtonbase said:


> Blind is hard work and unforgiving of errors but that makes it incredibly rewarding when success comes, which it will.
> Tips/spoilers
> 
> Remember your letters in pairs. This makes for a shorter memo and it will be obvious when you have an odd number (parity)
> ...


Hey, that helps. Especially the tip re when tracing is done.


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## SpartanSailor (Aug 5, 2018)

@pglewis yeah... this past week, it seems like the new F2L stuff is becoming more quick to execute. I did lots of warmup before I sat down for specific timed solves. 

@Old Tom I haven’t been focusing on timing my 3x3 lately, but I can’t just ignore it! I had some recent success with 4x4 as well this week. This has been a solid week for me and I didn’t get to practice as much. Maybe you’re right, a little more relaxed and things go well.


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## SpartanSailor (Aug 5, 2018)

newtonbase said:


> Blind is hard work and unforgiving of errors but that makes it incredibly rewarding when success comes, which it will.
> Tips/spoilers
> 
> To keep track of whether you have all pieces memo'd you start with a base number of 7 for corners and 11 for edges. Take 1 away for each piece that's already solved and add 1 for each new cycle. Assuming you solve 2 stickers for a twist or flip then add 1 for each of those too. If the number you get matches the number of letters in your memo then you are done.


I didn’t know this little trick! Nice.


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## newtonbase (Aug 5, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> I didn’t know this little trick! Nice.


It does make life a lot easier though after a while you don't have to use it consciously. You just know.


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## pglewis (Aug 6, 2018)

I'm all behind @newtonbase's post except I still keep track of solved pieces with my fingers, I rarely/never do the math. I'm doubtful anyone even remotely approaching "fast" traces with fingers but it's not the thing holding me back yet and it's been working (until a better intuitive "feel" for when I'm done comes around). For edges I don't track the M slice targets with fingers since you'll run out but it's only 3 to remember (I also free up fingers when I know an entire face is done). 

It may be bad long-term advice but different things work for different people. If you can keep up with a running sum that's bound to be better.


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## Old Tom (Aug 6, 2018)

The "running sum" is better thought of as a "decreasing sum." It's what many of us do when playing bridge, to remember how many cards in a suit (trump, or any suit) the opponents have left. Start with 13, subtract yours and dummy's trumps, for example 8. Mentally say "5 left". Start drawing trumps, both follow = "3 left", then only one follows = "2 left." Don't forget to subtract also for a ruff by an opponent. When the decreasing sum gets to zero you are done. Counting down is easier than counting up. Eventually, that becomes automatic. With the cube, you also have to add 1 for a new cycle.

As to which are still left, that's a different problem, with different approaches!

Thanks again @newtonbase.


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## pglewis (Aug 6, 2018)

Images/Audio web-app update: I've massaged my local data to make images individual rows in their own table instead of a single string per letter pair. Now that they're individual entities it'll be easy to manage add/edit/delete per letter pair. Most of the sawing and hammering is centered around prepping this as a single page app without the need for a server. For testing I'm planning to distribute a static HTML file you can just open in a browser and it'll load all the css/js resources it needs. 

Flashcards now with individual images:


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## pglewis (Aug 6, 2018)

And the bad news: I have some family stuff going on that conflicts with Michigan this coming weekend. Two in a row I've been unable to make .


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## openseas (Aug 6, 2018)

openseas said:


> Yes, whenever you have odd number of targets, you have to do parity.
> FYI,
> 1) if you have odd number of corners, you should have odd number of edge targets. (Exception - some people do swap of two edges to make them even but don't worry about it for now)
> 2) Number of targets:
> ...



@newtonbase / I don't count it any more but actually, and also in general (can't define the scope of general, though), we (or I) consider flip/twist same as solved when it comes to counting target numbers - at some point, number itself doesn't matter - more to check whether the tracing has been completed or not. At the end of each memo, when there are flips or twists, just add corresponding letter pairs or just visualize them (especially for 3BLD). 
What about other folks?


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## mark49152 (Aug 6, 2018)

Old Tom said:


> The "running sum" is better thought of as a "decreasing sum."


I can only speak for myself, but for me it's not really counting at all, at least not with arithmetic. 

I do edges as audio with 4 letter words. A single 11 edge cycle would be two 4-letter words and a 3-letter word, so that's my default "target". Each time I hit a cycle break my target gets longer - so after the first break I'm expecting there will be three 4-letter words, etc. If I am expecting three four letter words and I hit the buffer piece when the last word has only two letters, I know I'm looking for two spare edges. If I then see one solved, I know I'm looking for another one solved or flipped, etc. I'm never really thinking 12 or 13; only where I am relative to my initial target of 4/4/3.


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## Old Tom (Aug 6, 2018)

mark49152 said:


> I can only speak for myself, but for me it's not really counting at all, at least not with arithmetic.
> 
> I do edges as audio with 4 letter words. A single 11 edge cycle would be two 4-letter words and a 3-letter word, so that's my default "target". Each time I hit a cycle break my target gets longer - so after the first break I'm expecting there will be three 4-letter words, etc. If I am expecting three four letter words and I hit the buffer piece when the last word has only two letters, I know I'm looking for two spare edges. If I then see one solved, I know I'm looking for another one solved or flipped, etc. I'm never really thinking 12 or 13; only where I am relative to my initial target of 4/4/3.



Again, there's an interesting analogy with bridge. 13 cards in a suit, draw three rounds, if everyone follows, there's one left. But if it goes 4-4-3, there's two left. Counting by fours.


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## openseas (Aug 6, 2018)

mark49152 said:


> I can only speak for myself, but for me it's not really counting at all, at least not with arithmetic.
> 
> I do edges as audio with 4 letter words. A single 11 edge cycle would be two 4-letter words and a 3-letter word, so that's my default "target". Each time I hit a cycle break my target gets longer - so after the first break I'm expecting there will be three 4-letter words, etc. If I am expecting three four letter words and I hit the buffer piece when the last word has only two letters, I know I'm looking for two spare edges. If I then see one solved, I know I'm looking for another one solved or flipped, etc. I'm never really thinking 12 or 13; only where I am relative to my initial target of 4/4/3.



I do exactly the same: my audio has 4-4-4 rhythm. When I miss 1 or 2, looking for solved/flipped pieces to confirm.


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## Logiqx (Aug 6, 2018)

Just checking in to see what's been going on lately. Lot's of blind talk as usual! 

Ever since I figured out the Square-1 around a month ago, I've been doing intermittent practice to get faster.

Current PBs are a 32.00 single, 40.46 Ao5 and 47.99 Ao12 so I still have some way to go before I can make the UK cutoff of 45s. I'm finding it quite enjoyable so I'll keep practising and see where I hit a wall.

I also decided to write up my original Square-1 method and the various algs that I discovered. Possibly of interest to anyone on this thread who is into Square-1? It's basically the Vandenburgh method with alternative algs and intuitive parity. I use better algs now but it's nice that I'm essentially using same method just with better algs!

https://github.com/Logiqx/twisty-docs/blob/master/square-1/noob.md


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## newtonbase (Aug 6, 2018)

openseas said:


> @newtonbase / I don't count it any more but actually, and also in general (can't define the scope of general, though), we (or I) consider flip/twist same as solved when it comes to counting target numbers - at some point, number itself doesn't matter - more to check whether the tracing has been completed or not. At the end of each memo, when there are flips or twists, just add corresponding letter pairs or just visualize them (especially for 3BLD).
> What about other folks?


I don't do the maths either any more. It's more like "That seems a bit short" 
On a 3BLD solve today I got 7 corners so did the edge swap to avoid parity but got an odd number. Realised I'd missed the last corner letter so added that, kept the edge memo and ended up doing parity and edge swap on a non parity solve It was a slow success but I was quite pleased with myself.


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## Mike Hughey (Aug 6, 2018)

newtonbase said:


> I don't do the maths either any more. It's more like "That seems a bit short"


I do the same; twice in the weekly competition this week that led to a DNF for me. :-( So, especially for big cubes BLD, it is probably worth it to keep doing the calculations, unless you're one of the top folks going for WR. A few extra seconds to prevent a DNF is likely worth it.


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## newtonbase (Aug 7, 2018)

Mike Hughey said:


> I do the same; twice in the weekly competition this week that led to a DNF for me. :-( So, especially for big cubes BLD, it is probably worth it to keep doing the calculations, unless you're one of the top folks going for WR. A few extra seconds to prevent a DNF is likely worth it.


I do use the maths on 4BLD wings as it's too easy to miss a small cycle. Fingers do the job on centres.


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## openseas (Aug 7, 2018)

newtonbase said:


> I do use the maths on 4BLD wings as it's too easy to miss a small cycle. Fingers do the job on centres.



For 444/555 centers, I trace from top clock wise except U layer color (do U layer last for floating) No need to count or finger tapping.


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## pglewis (Aug 7, 2018)

I've made some adjustments to the letter pair images app from testing on my phone. I want to make sure it's usable on mobile first, desktop is a lot easier to pretty up as long as everything fits on a phone. I have UI elements in place to delete individual images and set them private/public (would allow you to skip certain records from exporting/sharing). They're not wired-up yet or aligned nicely, but they're in place. 

Still a lot of bullet points before feature-complete but there is solid progress. Current image search list in a modal:


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## newtonbase (Aug 7, 2018)

pglewis said:


> I've made some adjustments to the letter pair images app from testing on my phone. I want to make sure it's usable on mobile first, desktop is a lot easier to pretty up as long as everything fits on a phone. I have UI elements in place to delete individual images and set them private/public (would allow you to skip certain records from exporting/sharing). They're not wired-up yet or aligned nicely, but they're in place.
> 
> Still a lot of bullet points before feature-complete but there is solid progress. Current image search list in a modal:
> 
> View attachment 9349


I'm looking forward to this. Glad it will be mobile compatible


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## pglewis (Aug 7, 2018)

newtonbase said:


> I'm looking forward to this. Glad it will be mobile compatible



Yeah, it's 2018 and this is a perfect fit for a phone app: it has to work well in a phone footprint. It's browser based so it should run anywhere you can run a compliant browser. I'll eventually set it up so you can create a home screen shortcut, making it behave more like an app without needing different versions per platform. 

I'm in a rare window of opportunity where I can sink my teeth into this in lieu of work under the legit premise that it's going to bolster some areas that will help me a lot for the day job in the coming months. A labor of love is the best learning project. There's some family health stuff going on, adding a little chaos to the mix, but otherwise I've finally had the time to sit and hammer on this idea. 

The main thing I want to be careful of is making sure it's flexible enough to be extensible in the future. This is a very niche app but there's also nothing at all like it out there or I'd be using it instead of writing it. It's already a spreadsheet-killer for me in its current state so it has the potential to be a must-have, albeit for a really small audience. I'm already very reliant on the data I have in this thing, once I release it into the wild then others may also. I want to make sure I think it through so we don't end up painted into a corner when it's time to add features.


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## Old Tom (Aug 7, 2018)

pglewis said:


> I've made some adjustments to the letter pair images app from testing on my phone. I want to make sure it's usable on mobile first, desktop is a lot easier to pretty up as long as everything fits on a phone. I have UI elements in place to delete individual images and set them private/public (would allow you to skip certain records from exporting/sharing). They're not wired-up yet or aligned nicely, but they're in place.
> 
> Still a lot of bullet points before feature-complete but there is solid progress. Current image search list in a modal:
> 
> View attachment 9349





pglewis said:


> Yeah, it's 2018 and this is a perfect fit for a phone app: it has to work well in a phone footprint. It's browser based so it should run anywhere you can run a compliant browser. I'll eventually set it up so you can create a home screen shortcut, making it behave more like an app without needing different versions per platform.
> 
> I'm in a rare window of opportunity where I can sink my teeth into this in lieu of work under the legit premise that it's going to bolster some areas that will help me a lot for the day job in the coming months. A labor of love is the best learning project. There's some family health stuff going on, adding a little chaos to the mix, but otherwise I've finally had the time to sit and hammer on this idea.
> 
> The main thing I want to be careful of is making sure it's flexible enough to be extensible in the future. This is a very niche app but there's also nothing at all like it out there or I'd be using it instead of writing it. It's already a spreadsheet-killer for me in its current state so it has the potential to be a must-have, albeit for a really small audience. I'm already very reliant on the data I have in this thing, once I release it into the wild then others may also. I want to make sure I think it through so we don't end up painted into a corner when it's time to add features.



It will run in Android, I hope? I would want it mainly for my ipad.


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## pglewis (Aug 7, 2018)

Old Tom said:


> It will run in Android, I hope? I would want it mainly for my ipad.



It's browser-based so I intend for it to work on any platform with a reasonably modern browser. For the most part: if you can surf the web on it and it's not ancient, it should work .


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## h2f (Aug 8, 2018)

Patience pays off - after 36 DNFs I got PB in 5bld 10:31.98 [5:50]. PB by 3 seconds. 

've noticed that progres in blind events is not even. One day your solves go fine but the second day all goes bad. And sometimes best solves came out of nowhere - my previous PB was 3 months ago and it was such solve. I was averaging 15 minuts but the solve was ideal and exceed my skills by a lot. Today my average is around 11-12 minutes and the solve was closer to my skill and it wasnt ideal - it had too many reviews and should be shorter by a minute or so.


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## mark49152 (Aug 8, 2018)

@newtonbase - UKC has been announced and there are no qualifying criteria for 4BLD or 5BLD. Goals for you...?


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## newtonbase (Aug 8, 2018)

mark49152 said:


> @newtonbase - UKC has been announced and there are no qualifying criteria for 4BLD or 5BLD. Goals for you...?


That's what I'd heard. Definitely going to try but really struggling to practice. My lunch breaks are the best time but I've moved offices and can't find anywhere quiet. Might get a skin coloured mask with eyes painted on it.


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## Old Tom (Aug 8, 2018)

Re my Blind Quest: I've gotten confused and need help. I'm doing OP sighted fine now, and getting more and more familiar with sticker locations, setups, etc. Also doing short spurts of memo and blind solving, and am comfortable with that. But am completely thrown off with how to do the trace when there is a new cycle. (I can do this sighted fine.) A bit hard to explain my problem, but: Let's say I'm a couple of moves into memo and trace of edges. I discover the buffer position now has the buffer piece (the BM piece). So, I start a new cycle, throw it to an unsolved edge location, no problem as long as I know where the unsolved locations are (not the problem here). 

Except, the piece that was there now gets sent to buffer, gets moved along, but eventually (usually soon) a piece gets sent to where the BM piece now resides; I'm either done or I need to start another cycle. If I'm done, no problem, I should know I'm done. But if not done, then there is no problem when doing it sighted, but during the memo/trace inspection stage of an actual blind solve, I'm looking at the piece that was originally there, not the BM piece. So, how do I deal with this? Do I have to remember how I handled each new cycle (often more than one)? What does this do to memo and trace? Or what?

Hope that made sense! Hope there is a simple answer!


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## Mike Hughey (Aug 8, 2018)

@Old Tom , when you solve your first cycle, that puts the buffer piece where it will belong at the end. So then, when you start a second cycle, you can put the buffer piece back where it belongs by including the first piece for the second cycle at the end of the cycle as well as the beginning. You have to shoot to it twice. So the simple rule is, for the first cycle, you don't repeat the first piece you shoot to for that cycle, but for all other cycles you shoot to the first piece, run through the cycle, and then shoot to that first piece for that particular cycle again. Once you finish all cycles that way, you're done.

I hope that answers your question and makes sense - if not, let us know and maybe someone else can do better.


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## Old Tom (Aug 8, 2018)

Mike Hughey said:


> @Old Tom , when you solve your first cycle, that puts the buffer piece where it will belong at the end. So then, when you start a second cycle, you can put the buffer piece back where it belongs by including the first piece for the second cycle at the end of the cycle as well as the beginning. You have to shoot to it twice. So the simple rule is, for the first cycle, you don't repeat the first piece you shoot to for that cycle, but for all other cycles you shoot to the first piece, run through the cycle, and then shoot to that first piece for that particular cycle again. Once you finish all cycles that way, you're done.
> 
> I hope that answers your question and makes sense - if not, let us know and maybe someone else can do better.



Mike, I'm not sure if I understand this. You seem to be describing the solve after the memo is done. My problem, at least the problem I am initially facing, is how to do the memo and trace before the solve, where I'm going to be looking at a piece that is "no longer there" because it was replaced by the BM piece as the result of a new cycle.


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## mark49152 (Aug 8, 2018)

@Old Tom - you can think of the first swap to break into a new cycle as a kind of preparatory move.

When you start your memo, you look at your buffer position, trace the piece that resides there, and keep tracing until you hit your buffer piece. Hopefully you've got that part of it down.

So, if there are still unsolved pieces, what do you do? How do you solve those when your buffer position now contains your buffer piece?

You do that one preparatory swap. Pick one unsolved piece and swap it into your buffer position. Now, go back to the beginning. After this move, the process is exactly the same as when you started out. Start with the piece you just moved into buffer position, and trace around the cube. How do you know when the cycle is complete? Again it's the same - it's finished when you hit your buffer piece. Take care though, because you just moved your buffer piece into the position you started the cycle at.

Hope that helps.


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## Mike Hughey (Aug 8, 2018)

Okay, the thing I was trying to describe was actually the memo. The point is that you add that second cycle starting piece to the memo twice - once at the beginning and once at the end. Then you just execute without having to think about it at all - you'll hit that piece twice, but you don't really think about it because all you do is execute in the order you memorized.

So for instance, imagine you have a first cycle that, starting at your buffer piece, looks like this:
NQ BV CO A (just putting the letters in pairs because I like to memorize that way, for reasons we've discussed here before)

Now you need to start with a new piece for the second cycle. Say you pick P, and the pieces are PXF and then F goes back to P. So now your memorization is:
NQ BV CO AP XF P
Since there is a single piece, it means you have parity - solve that however you go about dealing with parity. But for the memorization, all you did was repeat the piece from the beginning of the second cycle at the end of the cycle, and everything takes care of itself.

You might get a situation where the second cycle ends at the same piece, but a different sticker. For me, P and J are on the same edge piece, so for the sample scramble I just set up to try this, I actually had:
NQ BV CO AP XF J
but since J and P are on the same piece, I essentially memorized the starting piece of my second cycle twice like I was supposed to, so that would be the memorization, with P and J pointing to different stickers on the same piece.

Then when you execute, you just execute your memorization exactly how it is, without worrying about whether you broke new cycles or not. On 3BLD, I often forget whether I even had extra cycles on my edges by the time I'm solving - it doesn't matter. I just need to remember the letters.

I hope that makes more sense?


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## Old Tom (Aug 8, 2018)

mark49152 said:


> @Old Tom - you can think of the first swap to break into a new cycle as a kind of preparatory move.
> 
> When you start your memo, you look at your buffer position, trace the piece that resides there, and keep tracing until you hit your buffer piece. Hopefully you've got that part of it down.
> 
> ...


Hey Mark, yes, this is exactly what I do when I do it sighted. But my question is, how do I memo this during the inspection/trace/memo phase? How do I remember when I have hit the buffer piece a second time, since I don't see that piece there in that spot? Instead, I am looking at the original piece that was there. Is it as simple as "Just remember it, the buffer piece is there now." Maybe that's what you meant by "Take care now." I can see myself easily overlooking that because I am not actually looking at the buffer piece.


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## Old Tom (Aug 8, 2018)

Mike Hughey said:


> Okay, the thing I was trying to describe was actually the memo. The point is that you add that second cycle starting piece to the memo twice - once at the beginning and once at the end. Then you just execute without having to think about it at all - you'll hit that piece twice, but you don't really think about it because all you do is execute in the order you memorized.
> 
> So for instance, imagine you have a first cycle that, starting at your buffer piece, looks like this:
> NQ BV CO A (just putting the letters in pairs because I like to memorize that way, for reasons we've discussed here before)
> ...



I'm going to work on this, thanks! Almost there, maybe. I'm impressed by how many DNFs you guys seem to tolerate, and I'm sure I'm gonna build up a horde of those also.


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## Mike Hughey (Aug 8, 2018)

Old Tom said:


> I'm going to work on this, thanks! Almost there, maybe. I'm impressed by how many DNFs you guys seem to tolerate, and I'm sure I'm gonna build up a horde of those also.


Yes, please don't let the DNFs get you down. If you do lots of DNFs, it means you're probably improving quicker. I tend to be far too unhappy with DNFs, and as a result I don't get faster as quickly as some of the others do. DNFs mean you're pushing yourself, which tends to make you better more quickly than successful solves do.


@h2f , you've actually gotten faster than me at 5BLD - I'm jealous! My PB is 10:33.74 - you've beaten me by almost 2 seconds!


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## mark49152 (Aug 8, 2018)

Old Tom said:


> But my question is, how do I memo this during the inspection/trace/memo phase? How do I remember when I have hit the buffer piece a second time, since I don't see that piece there in that spot? Instead, I am looking at the original piece that was there. Is it as simple as "Just remember it, the buffer piece is there now." Maybe that's what you meant by "Take care now." I can see myself easily overlooking that because I am not actually looking at the buffer piece.


Yes that's exactly what you do. You might overlook it occasionally at first, but you'll get it with practice. It helps to have a small number of "preferred" pieces to start cycles at.


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## SpartanSailor (Aug 9, 2018)

newtonbase said:


> That's what I'd heard. Definitely going to try but really struggling to practice. My lunch breaks are the best time but I've moved offices and can't find anywhere quiet. Might get a skin coloured mask with eyes painted on it.


Those are creepy looking... LOL


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## SpartanSailor (Aug 9, 2018)

Non-BLD update:
I’ve had some decent practice lately. I feel like my newer/improved F2L algs are beginning to happen more fluidly and with less pause. I’m not sure what that means in competition times, but I was thrilled with a 17 and 18 in the weekly forum comp and an Ao5 of 20.24.

4x4: I think it’s going to be a LONG time before I beat my PB/PR from my recent comp with a 58.55 single. That was a freak result and I’m still a little shocked by it.... pretty awesome that it happened in comp. But my official ao5 is still 1:21–need to get that down. Fortunately, I’ve had a few sub-1:15 averages over the past week and two at 1:11 (my new PB). I still feel like sub-1:15 is doable but something sub 1:20 is going to happen in a comp pretty soon I hope. With a big 3-day comp in Pennsylvania next weekend, I’ll have a chance to see what I can do. I’m competing in 10 events though (first time for several) and really just trying to have fun. I don’t have any actual goals yet, but a sub-1:20 ao5 is definitely a doable and hopeful outcome.

5x5. This has continued to be a fun distraction from other things. I missed my PB single by .4 seconds in the weekly comp with a 2:41.83. Eventually, I thing I’d like to be sub-2, but I don’t see that happening for quite some time. I also got a PB ao5 last night with 2:55. My previous was 2:57 from a couple weeks ago and those are the only two times I’ve done sub-3. Seems like 3:05-10 is more like my global average.

6x6. Another fun one. I am beginning to enjoy the bigger cubes. Not much to say here about times... I don’t drill 6x6 very much—just takes too long to scramble and complete a solve. I just can’t manage more than 5 solves in a row before I need a break.... and at 6-7 min each, that’s the better part of an hour.

7x7. Nothing here. Still waiting on my new Yuxin 7x7M to arrive. Recieved shipping notification, so, I’ll be happy when that arrives. I’ve never really timed myself, but the fastest know time for me is around 19 minutes and that was a LONG time ago. LOL. I didn’t even know what I was doing back then, I am hopeful that I can improve that just based upon what I’ve learned working 5x5 and 6x6. 

Sorry for the long post....


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## SpartanSailor (Aug 9, 2018)

Old Tom said:


> Hey Mark, yes, this is exactly what I do when I do it sighted. But my question is, how do I memo this during the inspection/trace/memo phase? How do I remember when I have hit the buffer piece a second time, since I don't see that piece there in that spot? Instead, I am looking at the original piece that was there. Is it as simple as "Just remember it, the buffer piece is there now." Maybe that's what you meant by "Take care now." I can see myself easily overlooking that because I am not actually looking at the buffer piece.


I still struggle with this sometimes... I’ll notice that my memo is taking forever and then notice that I’m redoing pieces....

I notice, now, that I’ve already solved that piece when i cycle back to it. I don’t imagine the buffer there, more that I remember solving the “blue-red” edge (or whichever it is). The harder part is remember which edges have NOT been solved so I can start a new cycle or know I’m done.


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## Old Tom (Aug 9, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> Non-BLD update:
> I’ve had some decent practice lately. I feel like my newer/improved F2L algs are beginning to happen more fluidly and with less pause. I’m not sure what that means in competition times, but I was thrilled with a 17 and 18 in the weekly forum comp and an Ao5 of 20.24.
> 
> 4x4: I think it’s going to be a LONG time before I beat my PB/PR from my recent comp with a 58.55 single. That was a freak result and I’m still a little shocked by it.... pretty awesome that it happened in comp. But my official ao5 is still 1:21–need to get that down. Fortunately, I’ve had a few sub-1:15 averages over the past week and two at 1:11 (my new PB). I still feel like sub-1:15 is doable but something sub 1:20 is going to happen in a comp pretty soon I hope. With a big 3-day comp in Pennsylvania next weekend, I’ll have a chance to see what I can do. I’m competing in 10 events though (first time for several) and really just trying to have fun. I don’t have any actual goals yet, but a sub-1:20 ao5 is definitely a doable and hopeful outcome.
> ...



Ten events! Don't forget to lube your fingers.


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## SpartanSailor (Aug 9, 2018)

Old Tom said:


> Ten events! Don't forget to lube your fingers.


I know... spread out over three days though. I’ll be busy just keeping track of where I’m supposed to be.


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## openseas (Aug 9, 2018)

Non-BLD update:

I've got elected as a candidate delegate of Texas. Non-stop cubing competition at North Texas area is about to start


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## pglewis (Aug 9, 2018)

Old Tom said:


> "Just remember it, the buffer piece is there now." Maybe that's what you meant by "Take care now." I can see myself easily overlooking that because I am not actually looking at the buffer piece.



This is the main reason I still track with fingers yet it's still far too common a cause for tracing errors for me. I get focused on the trace then forget where the last cycle break started. It gets easier though, and I wouldn't suggest using fingers if you're making good progress without them. At some point I'll need to drop that habit.


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## SpartanSailor (Aug 9, 2018)

openseas said:


> Non-BLD update:
> 
> I've got elected as a candidate delegate of Texas. Non-stop cubing competition at North Texas area is about to start


Fantastic!! Congrats!


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## Old Tom (Aug 9, 2018)

pglewis said:


> This is the main reason I still track with fingers yet it's still far too common a cause for tracing errors for me. I get focused on the trace then forget where the last cycle break started. It gets easier though, and I wouldn't suggest using fingers if you're making good progress without them. At some point I'll need to drop that habit.



Happy to know that my confusion involved a real issue, not just a beginner's illusion. Thanks to everyone for the tips, I think I now know what to do to keep track of the cycle breaks. Just to be sure: once I've done all this and created (and reviewed) a complete memo string, is it correct that I can now forget all about the breaks and just execute the resulting setups, algs and un-setups as if no breaks were there (except for how they may or may not result in a parity correction between edges and corners)? Or are you still keeping track of what you are actually doing as you execute the string?


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## mark49152 (Aug 9, 2018)

Old Tom said:


> Or are you still keeping track of what you are actually doing as you execute the string?


Once you have completed your memo you should not have to think during execution. Execution should be like a dumb computer just mindlessly executing a sequence of instructions.


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## pglewis (Aug 9, 2018)

mark49152 said:


> Once you have completed your memo you should not have to think during execution. Execution should be like a dumb computer just mindlessly executing a sequence of instructions.



Which is exactly why the transition to multiple cubes has been a lot easier than I expected. Once you got one in memory it doesn't matter that you put it memory yesterday, just execute.


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## Old Tom (Aug 9, 2018)

pglewis said:


> Which is exactly why the transition to multiple cubes has been a lot easier than I expected. Once you got one in memory it doesn't matter that you put it memory yesterday, just execute.



Just curious, unlikely to need in this lifetime: In Multi, how do you memo whether you need the parity alg, for later recall?


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## Mike Hughey (Aug 9, 2018)

Old Tom said:


> Just curious, unlikely to need in this lifetime: In Multi, how do you memo whether you need the parity alg, for later recall?


For me, I currently memorize corners first, then edges. Then I solve edges first, then corners. When memorizing the corners, if I have parity, I will memorize an odd number of corners. If I get to the point where I'm solving corners and I have an odd number of corners, I know I need to fix parity. If there's an even number, I know I don't have parity. So there's really nothing extra to memorize.

Flipped edges and twisted corners are the bad part to have to remember for multi, not parity. Those can sometimes be pretty ugly, depending on the scrambles. That is generally what I consider to be the main difference between "good scrambles" and "bad scrambles" for multi - how many flipped edges and twisted corners there are.


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## newtonbase (Aug 9, 2018)

openseas said:


> Non-BLD update:
> 
> I've got elected as a candidate delegate of Texas. Non-stop cubing competition at North Texas area is about to start


Great news!


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## mark49152 (Aug 9, 2018)

Old Tom said:


> Just curious, unlikely to need in this lifetime: In Multi, how do you memo whether you need the parity alg, for later recall?


Like Mike said, you memo an odd letter on its own when there's parity. Different people do that in different ways but they ultimately amount to the same thing. Personally I add the letter Z because that's what I do in audio memo. So R becomes RZ becomes razor. Other people might just have an image for R on its own, or use some special category of image, for example @newtonbase has a superhero for each lone letter.


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## pglewis (Aug 9, 2018)

Old Tom said:


> Just curious, unlikely to need in this lifetime: In Multi, how do you memo whether you need the parity alg, for later recall?



This is why doing memo in pairs is pretty much optimal, it identifies parity in your memo without any other tricks. 

I'm an iconoclast and use double letters like BB instead of a dangling letter if there is parity but that's just a detail. If you use single letters you still need unique images for those 24 cases, you don't want to mistake Iguana for IG if you're using it for single I with parity. So four people, four different ways of doing it but it boils down the same: you'll know because there will be something that uniquely identifies parity in the memo itself.


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## Old Tom (Aug 9, 2018)

pglewis said:


> This is why doing memo in pairs is pretty much optimal, it identifies parity in your memo without any other tricks.
> 
> I'm an iconoclast and use double letters like BB instead of a dangling letter if there is parity but that's just a detail. If you use single letters you still need unique images for those 24 cases, you don't want to mistake Iguana for IG if you're using it for single I with parity. So four people, four different ways of doing it but it boils down the same: you'll know because there will be something that uniquely identifies parity in the memo itself.



There are so many double-letter memo posibilities out there, not otherwise useable, that I'm attracted to that approach. Joltin' Joe, Miss Monroe, just to get started. I am saving Z for letting X be X,Y or Z.


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## mark49152 (Aug 9, 2018)

pglewis said:


> So four people, four different ways of doing it but it boils down the same


Yeah exactly. Ultimately it doesn't matter what scheme you choose for mapping from stickers to images. You simply need to be able to map from pairs of stickers, and single stickers, to images, and vice versa. I often think too much attention is paid to different ways of choosing letterings and translating letters to words or images or sounds. As long as you have something that works for you, it really doesn't matter, and once you recognise that, it makes it easier to handle the exceptions or bad cases arising from whatever scheme you choose.


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## pglewis (Aug 9, 2018)

Old Tom said:


> There are so many double-letter memo posibilities out there, not otherwise useable, that I'm attracted to that approach. Joltin' Joe, Miss Monroe, just to get started. I am saving Z for letting X be X,Y or Z.



That's the main reason I stuck with it, it was really easy to come up with stuff for most of them. For UU I use an image of two horseshoes because it was hard to come up with words but this is a "whatever works" game.


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## pglewis (Aug 9, 2018)

In the end, it'll be the unique images you use that will signal parity, once your image list is second nature.


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## moralsh (Aug 9, 2018)

I have countries or cities for single stickers, and usually apply the memo to that location or if I'm already using locations (big blind or multi) I just apply it as origin of the object.

I haven't been doing this for a long time, so I might change again some time in the future.

I'm currently trying to not practice non blind solving at all which is quite easy because I have no time at all due to several unfortunate reasons just to try not to repeat ever my 8 DNF at euros anytime soon.

I have a lot of ideas and projects focused on blindsolving, I really hope to be able to share it here in a couple of months or so. Meanwhile keep up practicing and doing nice things everybody


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## Old Tom (Aug 9, 2018)

moralsh said:


> I have countries or cities for single stickers, and usually apply the memo to that location or if I'm already using locations (big blind or multi) I just apply it as origin of the object.
> 
> I haven't been doing this for a long time, so I might change again some time in the future.
> 
> ...



Please do share with us. This is a great place to discuss stuff.


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## AvGalen (Aug 10, 2018)

Old Tom said:


> Just curious, unlikely to need in this lifetime: In Multi, how do you memo whether you need the parity alg, for later recall?


Why would you memo parity? You do an alg, raise your foot (Parity). You do another alg, lower your foot (no parity). If your foot is flat at the end you don't have parity


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## pglewis (Aug 10, 2018)

AvGalen said:


> Why would you memo parity? You do an alg, raise your foot (Parity). You do another alg, lower your foot (no parity). If your foot is flat at the end you don't have parity



Gonna need a lot of feet for multi


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## Old Tom (Aug 10, 2018)

AvGalen said:


> Why would you memo parity? You do an alg, raise your foot (Parity). You do another alg, lower your foot (no parity). If your foot is flat at the end you don't have parity



I had actually thought of that, may try it, but I think sticking to letter pairs as I memo may be better for me. Might forget to move that foot.


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## moralsh (Aug 10, 2018)

I used to leave cubes with parity a couple of cm ahead of the other ones, another option is to group them if you are trying 10 or less.


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## mark49152 (Aug 11, 2018)

moralsh said:


> I used to leave cubes with parity a couple of cm ahead of the other ones, another option is to group them if you are trying 10 or less.


I've heard that before but I'm afraid I don't quite get it. You still need to memo those odd letters, right? So you already know the cube has parity when you get to an odd letter. Why is it helpful to have some extra reminder that the cube has parity?


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## Mike Hughey (Aug 11, 2018)

mark49152 said:


> I've heard that before but I'm afraid I don't quite get it. You still need to memo those odd letters, right? So you already know the cube has parity when you get to an odd letter. Why is it helpful to have some extra reminder that the cube has parity?


I remember us discussing this many years ago, and the main justification for it back then was as a way to verify that your memo is right - if you get a mismatch from how you've set the cube, you know you're probably recalling the wrong cube. Not really much of a benefit; if your memo is insecure enough that you need this help, it's probably not going to be a very good solve anyway. But it is something that takes practically no extra time to do, so from that perspective, maybe it still makes sense to do.


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## SpartanSailor (Aug 11, 2018)

mark49152 said:


> I've heard that before but I'm afraid I don't quite get it. You still need to memo those odd letters, right? So you already know the cube has parity when you get to an odd letter. Why is it helpful to have some extra reminder that the cube has parity?


I note if there is parity (3BLD not MBLD) after corner memo... probably like most (I memo corners first). Then I don’t think about it again. During execution I still execute in pairs, sometimes those pairs flow together pretty well for a decent execution time, but either way, I KNOW after the last edge piece that it didn’t have a mate... so do parity and roll into corner execution.

With M2, I’ve noticed that it doesn’t matter if you do parity between edges and centers or at the end.... or at least, I think I’ve noticed that. I still do it in the middle, but a few times I forgot for some reason and did it at the end and it all worked out.


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## SpartanSailor (Aug 11, 2018)

New Yuxin 7x7M arrived today.... Looking forward to playing with this one now too.... I believe my previous fastest time (that I’ve ever timed) was 19+ minutes. At that time frame, it wasn’t worth timing. The weekly forum comp has a one-time participation of 23 min! Hopefully, I can bring that down a minute or two with a good cube and some improved bigger cube techniques.

Edit to add:
I actually did an Ao5 for the first time ever.... took over an hour with scrambling times and everything. Single: 10:18. A05: 11:08. 

That took forEVER... I’m thinking of doing the relays tomorrow 2-4, 2-5, 2-6, and for the first time 2-7. That’s going to take the better part of an hour if I can find the time. 2-7 alone, assuming I can PB EVERYTHING along the way, will be pushing 24 minutes! But, it’s a fun way to spend a lazy Sunday afternoon—except tomorrow is not a lazy Sunday. Anyway, I am loving this new Yuxin 7x7M. I have no doubt that I can improve a lot over the next couple months just with the weekly competition. My eyes were going crazy looking at the last two edges trying to figure out how to align them to do the various edge-flip-swaps.


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## openseas (Aug 12, 2018)

Last summer comp @ DFW, 1st day,

5BLD DNF but two 3BLD success today.
I almost got sub 2 mean. 1:59, 2:01 DNF, 1:39.

Tomorrow, 4BLD, MBLD, and 3BLD final round. It's tough to compete big and multi while organizing a comp- I'll just try 3 cubes in 10min.

Hope to break 4BLD DANG streak...


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## SpartanSailor (Aug 12, 2018)

openseas said:


> Last summer comp @ DFW, 1st day,
> 
> 5BLD DNF but two 3BLD success today.
> I almost got sub 2 mean. 1:59, 2:01 DNF, 1:39.
> ...


You had 4 attempts at 3BLD? That strikes me as unusual... 

next time we see each other, I’ll have a ton of questions for your about hosting/organizing a comp. I would like to run a comp, but beyond the standing “venue” type issues, I have a few questions about how to go about doing so. I know the time limits are important to keep the comp from being forever long. I’m thinking of doing fewer events with more generous limits than are normal in the area. 

There are a LOT of very fast cubers in my local area so the limits are adequate and still get many people through. I would like to have a comp with generous limits on the non-3x3 events to encourage more people to try different events. But if you are new to bigger cubes and/or BLD events, our local cutoffs are too tight to make it fun to “try” to get more involved. 

For example, 2:00 is a typical cutoff for 5x5. That’s so beyond the ability of 99% of cubers that come out to weekend comps, but because we have about 50 people locally that attend every comp and can do it under 2 min, it seems reasonable. But Patrick Ponce and people of that caliber are the “locals”... WR and NR holders... not a lot of room for the newbie to give it a go. It’s just not worth even trying when you KNOW you can’t even possibly make the cutoff. Furthermore, it’s not even something that someone new to larger cubes can easily attain—making it out of reach to get new people involved.


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## openseas (Aug 12, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> You had 4 attempts at 3BLD? That strikes me as unusual...
> 
> next time we see each other, I’ll have a ton of questions for your about hosting/organizing a comp. I would like to run a comp, but beyond the standing “venue” type issues, I have a few questions about how to go about doing so. I know the time limits are important to keep the comp from being forever long. I’m thinking of doing fewer events with more generous limits than are normal in the area.
> 
> ...




"2:01 DNF"


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## SpartanSailor (Aug 12, 2018)

AHHHHH... overlooked the missing comma. Turns out grammar is important. LOL


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## Old Tom (Aug 12, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> You had 4 attempts at 3BLD? That strikes me as unusual...
> 
> next time we see each other, I’ll have a ton of questions for your about hosting/organizing a comp. I would like to run a comp, but beyond the standing “venue” type issues, I have a few questions about how to go about doing so. I know the time limits are important to keep the comp from being forever long. I’m thinking of doing fewer events with more generous limits than are normal in the area.
> 
> ...



In bridge tournamemts (which I have run) there are often NLM (non-Life Master) events in addition to the Open events. These attract the newbies, and are an important means for growth and continuity of the bridge league, ACBL.

I've been told, and have discovered myself, that much of cubing is about PBs. So why not have a separate section at WCA comps for folks who do not yet have an official time for a given puzzle? A separate table or two where anyone with any puzzle can walk up at any time, get a scramble, and do a solve, with a much more generous time limit, TBD. This would not delay the open-event schedule. It would require one or two (rotating) officials to be on hand, not a big deal I don't think. It could also be restricted to a certain time slot of an hour or two, if manpower is a problem.

Something for the WCA board to consider? Successful solves could go into the database with an asterisk, if the purists insist. There are other ways to handle this, such as a semi-official, comp-specific record.


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## mark49152 (Aug 12, 2018)

I think the existing system is pretty kind to newbies. A format like Bo2/Ao5 for events like 5x5 give two chances - first for a single, and second for an average if the single is good enough. I don't really see the need for a separate competition feature as long as appropriate time limit and cutoff are set for the Bo2/Ao5, and it's nice that newbies are included in the main competition.

Setting the time limit and cutoff higher than usual would be a nice idea to give people a chance of single and average when they rarely otherwise get it. However, I wouldn't set it too high, nor remove the Bo2 combined round. Even getting a WCA single result should be reward for putting in some practice and becoming competent at the puzzle. If someone can barely solve a puzzle and has only practised a few times, I think it's reasonable that they should miss getting a competition result.


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## SpartanSailor (Aug 12, 2018)

I agree... I’m not suggesting 60 min for larger cubes and whatnot. However, getting a sub-5 on 7x7 isn’t something that just casually happens. For example, I’ve seen 10:00 limits on 2x2, but 5 min limit on 7x7. Not the Bo1/Mo3 cutoff, rather the DNF limit. And I would want to keep the Bo2/Ao5 or Bo1/Mo3 format, I just think a slightly more forgiving cutoff for the single would be a good way to get more participation with limited impact on overall even schedule. I certainly don’t want to be there all day just to give 3 attempts at 7x7 to someone like myself (currently) that could easily take forever.

@Old Tom I think the real challenge presented by the side table concept (which I think is good) is having official scrambles properly generated and used to support that. There are usually teams of people working the scrambles from an official scrambles generated list for each cube/round/event. Having someone just walk up when 7x7 or Clock are not on the schedule would require considerable more logistics than might immediately come to mind—WCA officially generated scrambles, scrambler, judge, runner... I like the idea, just some peripheral logistics come to mind to wrestle with.

The big take away is I like the community and want to get more involved AND promote more participation.


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## h2f (Aug 12, 2018)

Old Tom said:


> So why not have a separate section at WCA comps for folks who do not yet have an official time for a given puzzle? A separate table or two where anyone with any puzzle can walk up at any time, get a scramble, and do a solve, with a much more generous cutoff, TBD.



It's rather imposible to do because there always would have to sit a delegate there. He has another duties. Cutoffs are made to prevents time delays in a schedule. Imagine competion with 70 people and 10 min cutoff for 7x7. It would take few hours to make an one round of this event. That's why there are needed.


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## SpartanSailor (Aug 12, 2018)

h2f said:


> It's rather imposible to do because there always would have to sit a delegate there. He has another duties. Cutoffs are made to prevents time delays in a schedule. Imagine competion with 70 people and 10 min cutoff for 7x7. It would take few hours to make an one round of this event. That's why there are needed.


Whereas I hear you and agree... bear in mind that most competitions have multiple judging stations. Locally, about 12 or so. If say, 40 people compete in 7x7, then there could be 12 simultaneous competitors. Meaning in 10 minutes, 12 people are potentially done for the day. Only those that can actually make the 4 min cutoff (using that for sake of example) can continue on. However, locally, we often see 4:00/5:00 cutoff/limits. In this case, we only lost 5 minutes to let others even have a hope to participate.

That’s only one wave/heat....true. But if done for each wave, 40/12 = 4 waves. So, in an entire day, we have added 20 minutes (maximum... many could possibly be done in 6-7 minutes) by extending the limit from 5 to 10 minutes. 

Admittedly, this does add time and with “real life” during the day, those theoretical 20 minutes add up to more. I’m sensitive and aware of the time constraints of a comp... which is why I’m playing with the idea of trying to do something like this. FWIW, I’ve never seen 40 people sign up for 7x7. Usually it’s closer to 15... and they all get under 4 minutes. It seems to me that they only do it for themselves, and are not providing much opportunity for new 7x7 competitors (as an example). 

Another example is our local 4x4 cutoff/limits. I work 4x4 all the time and still have only made cutoff a couple times. The cutoff is usually faster than the US National qualifying time. That seems unreasonably fast for a friendly local comp—but again, we have 20 or so world class local cubers, so using a national qualifying time isn’t really reflective of the larger talent present. So, question: Who are the comps for? the fastest cubers or everyone? I know the answer and don’t mean to insight argument. I just think there is room for slightly more lenient times. 

Final example, go to nearly anywhere else in the US and you will see much more friendly cutoffs.... I would not suggest cutoffs that were outside the norms. I think part of the problem (for me, MY problem I suppose) is that where I live there are a LOT of world class cubers. So, the cutoffs used still result in large numbers of competitors being able to continue their average or mean.


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## h2f (Aug 12, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> I think part of the problem (for me, MY problem I suppose) is that where I live there are a LOT of world class cubers.



I have the same situtation. When I started in 2x2 there were no cutoffs or there were at 10-12 seconds level. Now they are 5-6 seconds in Poland. On the other hand - it's not as hard to make them. For example 6 seconds level in 2x2 is quite easy to achive - maybe 10 000 practice solves I guess.


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## SpartanSailor (Aug 12, 2018)

5-6 second cutoff! LOL. Yeah, that would stop a LOT of people from continuing (at least locally). But of all the events, if you want to get sub 6 with 2x2, it isn’t that difficult if you are willing to do the practice (said by a mid-6 sec 2x2 solver HAHAHAHA)


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## mark49152 (Aug 12, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> I would want to keep the Bo2/Ao5 or Bo1/Mo3 format, I just think a slightly more forgiving cutoff for the single would be a good way to get more participation with limited impact on overall even schedule.


You could add say 20-30% to the cutoff to help out those folks who are working hard to reach the usual cutoff but not quite there yet. Then maybe set a time limit of 2x cutoff on the grounds that the competitor will still use fewer competition resources than if they had made the cutoff. Time limits usually seem lower than that, which you could argue penalises those who won't make cutoff anyway. (I was considering organising a comp along those lines a year or so ago, but it didn't happen.)


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## AvGalen (Aug 13, 2018)

Mike Hughey said:


> I remember us discussing this many years ago, and the main justification for it back then was as a way to verify that your memo is right - if you get a mismatch from how you've set the cube, you know you're probably recalling the wrong cube. Not really much of a benefit; if your memo is insecure enough that you need this help, it's probably not going to be a very good solve anyway. But it is something that takes practically no extra time to do, so from that perspective, maybe it still makes sense to do.


I thought of this purely from a theoretical perspective. People wanted to count with fingers and I just wanted to point out that there are easier ways to keep count. I use 3OP and never got into bigblind so I never really used this myself


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## AvGalen (Aug 13, 2018)

mark49152 said:


> You could add say 20-30% to the cutoff to help out those folks who are working hard to reach the usual cutoff but not quite there yet. Then maybe set a time limit of 2x cutoff on the grounds that the competitor will still use fewer competition resources than if they had made the cutoff. Time limits usually seem lower than that, which you could argue penalises those who won't make cutoff anyway. (I was considering organising a comp along those lines a year or so ago, but it didn't happen.)


As I said in the thread about "worst things happened in a WCA comp":
It makes no sense from a timesaving perspective to have cutoffs that are shorter than the inspection time. If it takes 30 seconds to get me from the waiting area to a timer, a get 60 seconds to prepare, 15 seconds to inspect and perform a 2x2x2 solve in 6.5 seconds it makes no sense to punish me for needing 0.5 seconds too long
(and for several events with such cutoffs there weren't enough people that made to cutoff so some people went to the 2nd round anyway where they would do 5 solves)


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## mark49152 (Aug 13, 2018)

AvGalen said:


> It makes no sense from a timesaving perspective to have cutoffs that are shorter than the inspection time.


Yes I agree. I think (or I assumed) the discussion was about longer events like 5x5-7x7.


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## Mike Hughey (Aug 13, 2018)

mark49152 said:


> Yes I agree. I think (or I assumed) the discussion was about longer events like 5x5-7x7.


Yes, I think that's what we were discussing. But Arnaud did recently get stopped at 2 solves for getting 6.5 in 2x2x2 when the cutoff was 6 seconds. I quite agree that that cutoff seems pretty extreme; I think Arnaud's suggestion of making the inspection time be the minimum cutoff time for an event is a decent guideline to use.

For huge competitions like US Nationals and Worlds now, they have qualification times that should make it unnecessary to have to have ridiculous cutoff times like 6 seconds for 2x2x2. I'd like to think that sort of thing should not be necessary at any competition.


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## openseas (Aug 13, 2018)

From an organizer's point of view (when we set cut-off for big cubes), the most important factor is, of course, time but scramblers are the real factor behind the schedule. Any events using 333 is the most easiest to find scramblers and same for 444.

However, there are big difference between 555 vs. 666 or 777. 

1) By WCA regulation, 555 scrambles have to be matched exactly as drawn while you can make your best to match the scramble of 666 or 777 but not a must. Many times, scramblers for 555 have to solve miscrambled 555 and then re-scramble them. So, number of attempts are critical to run a smooth & not-so-behind schedule competition. 

2) Those high profiled scramblers are recommended to compete in the same group to keep the fairness. That means, all fast 555 solvers are likely to be in the same group leaving almost no decent scramblers available.

When we select events for each competition, we use historical data of this region (DFW area) - which events cubers register the most and what are the distribution of their times. Based on this analysis + time allowed in the venue, we make the decision which event to include and the time limit and cut-off of those events. We try to make more relaxed timelimts so that cubers can have official singles whereas reasonable cut-off to make the schedule effective. 

A side note: In a competition in Florida, there was only one group for 555, nobody else (not competing) was decent. So, I had to scramble 555. I made my best but 50% success rate on scrambles. Those mis-scrambled cubes, I added ~10 extra moves and gave them to the cubers (competitor of 555) and let them solve (unofficially) so that I didn't have to spend next 10 minutes to solve a 555 with 3 style


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## AvGalen (Aug 13, 2018)

"The Mission of the World Cube Association is to have *more competitions in more countries with more people and more fun, under fair and equal conditions*. "
cut-offs are a necessary evil. If somebody needs 9 minutes for a 5x5x5 I would love for him to be able to do an average of 5 but that is often just not doable without limiting the amount of events for all other competitors. There are many "making the best from a bad situation" solutions that have proven their worth. Some are now required official regulations (fair and equal conditions) while others only have to be applied if the delegate/organizer decide it is needed to keep the time schedule (more people, more fun):
* Limiting multi-blind to 10 minutes per cube and 60 minutes in total. (used to be 15 minutes per cube, no total limit)
* Limiting FMC to 60 minutes per solve. (used to be 90 minutes)
* Limiting all solves to 10 minutes by default
* Having cumulative time limits (like 15 minutes for 3 blindfolded solves)
* Having combined rounds with cut-offs (you only get all 3/5 attempts if your first 1/2 attempts beat a certain time)

I feel like all of this is pretty much established practice, normally well communicated before competitions start and also communicated well enough if it changes during a competition. You could have a good discussion if it is really "fair and equal conditions" that cumulative time limits are different between competitions resulting in some people being allowed to get a "9 minute official 7x7x7 average" while others are stopped after 5 minutes or even prevented from doing a solve at another competition that requires having an official average. I trust enough in the WCA and the organizers of competitions that this will only happen if it is needed. That trust (not any rules!) got broken during Euro 2018 which is why I complain about that so much.


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## mark49152 (Aug 13, 2018)

Mike Hughey said:


> Arnaud did recently get stopped at 2 solves for getting 6.5 in 2x2x2 when the cutoff was 6 seconds. I quite agree that that cutoff seems pretty extreme; I think Arnaud's suggestion of making the inspection time be the minimum cutoff time for an event is a decent guideline to use.


I guess it depends on what the organisers want to achieve with the cutoff. If the objective is to reduce the field to some percentage for solves 3-5 in order to save time overall (including scrambling, running and judging time) then it's not unreasonable to do that by looking at a psych sheet and working out a cutoff that N% of the field will likely fail to meet.

If the objective is instead to eliminate the slowest outliers to prevent the round from overrunning with a few stragglers still solving, a more generous cutoff makes sense.


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## SpartanSailor (Aug 14, 2018)

AvGalen said:


> "...That trust (not any rules!) got broken during Euro 2018 which is why I complain about that so much.


How so? Not trying to rehash any bad feelings, just not sure to what you are referring...


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## AvGalen (Aug 14, 2018)

mark49152 said:


> I guess it depends on what the organisers want to achieve with the cutoff. If the objective is to reduce the field to some percentage for solves 3-5 in order to save time overall (including scrambling, running and judging time) then it's not unreasonable to do that by looking at a psych sheet and working out a cutoff that N% of the field will likely fail to meet.
> 
> If the objective is instead to eliminate the slowest outliers to prevent the round from overrunning with a few stragglers still solving, a more generous cutoff makes sense.


There were 171 people that made the cut-off for Pyraminx in the first round. 187 participated in the second round. Having more people do an average in the second round than in the first round shouldn't happen, especially not in a big tournament like Euro.



SpartanSailor said:


> How so? Not trying to rehash any bad feelings, just not sure to what you are referring...


I am referring to my trust in the WCA to provide fun was broken by unnecessarily putting a cut-off on an event. There are many reasons why this was such a big disappointment for me:
* This cut-off barely saved time for the competition
* I had to pay about 6 Euro for just these 12 seconds of solving.
* It was also a 9 AM event with my only other event that day 7 hours later which means it occupied the morning-routine for me and my 4 year old son.
* After I missed the first solve I even considered to do layer-by-layer hoping for a skip. Motivating gambling shouldn't be result of WCA-decissions.
* 40 people did an average above 6 seconds meaning they basically got lucky in their first 2 solves. 

If you want to make sure that you don't run out of time you would have to account for 2 minutes per person (scrambling, collecting participants from the waiting area, finding a table, 1 minute preparation time, 15 seconds inspection, 6 seconds solving time). Of course normally you will not really need those 2 minutes per solve but every competitor would have that right. The overhead is too big to make cut-offs that are so small feel justified. My feeling is that a cut-off should never be smaller than the allowed inspection time. Again, we are talking about trust that got broken, not regulations.
P.S. Only 9 people out of >400 needed more than 15 seconds


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## mark49152 (Aug 14, 2018)

AvGalen said:


> The overhead is too big to make cut-offs that are so small feel justified.


The overhead still counts though. I haven't looked at Euros but let's say a comp has 1000 entrants for an event. The organisers may decide that the schedule can only afford time for ~3000 solves in the first round. That could be achieved by setting a cutoff such that <400 competitors are expected to do 5 solves. 5*400+2*600 = 3200.

I'm not saying it was a good decision in the specific case you mentioned, I'm just pointing out that it's a legitimate way to save time and there's of course a trade off otherwise, like holding fewer events or rounds or having tougher qualifying criteria.

I hope you enjoyed Euros anyway, despite your disappointment in this event!


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## SpartanSailor (Aug 14, 2018)

Thanks for the info. I was unaware that this occurred at Euros 2018...

Feel free to skip over this long post (this is what happens when my mind starts going and I’m suffering of insomnia)

To really illustrate my point about cutoffs and limits. This weekend the comp I am attending planned for 800 participants. I just checked, 178 registered. Perhaps they set cutoffs and limits with a far exaggerated expectation of how many people would actually show up.... then again, perhaps their stringent cutoffs made people think, “why bother”. 

Let’s talk 666 to illustrate my point about forgiving limits/cutoffs. This weekend the 666 cutoff/limit is 3:30/5:30.

Of the 178, there are only 64 registered for 666. Of those, there are 40 that either have an average under 3:30 or have posted an official sub-3:30 single. For planning purposes, it safe to estimate that those 40 people will complete a mean and let’s say they average 4:00–even though we KNOW they will be much faster than this... the top half of competitors in 666 are sub-1:30 means, but for planning purposes, 4 minutes works.


That gives us 4min x 40 competitors x 3 solves = 480 minutes of solving time, but spread over 12 stations, so roughly 40 minutes/station (480 min/12 stations).


Of the remaining 24 registered, 9 have posted a single in the 4-5 minute range and the other 15 have never posted a single.

What SHOULD the limit be?
Let’s do the math... if the expected 40 REALLY do average 4 minutes on there 3 solves even after getting a sub-3:30 cutoff that leaves 20 minutes to fill the planned hour of competition time dedicated to 666. With 12 stations, and no real expectation that any of the remaining 24 should get more than a single attempt, that really leaves roughly 10 min/station (24 people/12 stations = 2 ppl/station, 20min/2ppl = 10 min/station).


Why then, does the limit have to be 5:30 rather than say... 7:30? The fastest 12 people are going to be so much faster than 4 minutes that there should not be much risk of running out of time. However, the 5:30 DOES limit the chance that newbies will have “fun” and be able to try a new event. We are talking about adding 2 min per solve (max) for 24 people. As a personal example, I am among the 15. But have decided that I’m not even going to show up for the 666 comp because it’ll waste everyone’s time and I won’t enjoy sitting down KNOWING that I’ll get stopped mid-solve. I’m sure I’m not the only one... and how many didn’t even register for similar reasons?


With a 7:30 limit, there still should be little risk of falling behind schedule. That said, it’s a large comp and they have actual staff. We can rule out the fact that only one person volunteers to run or judge or scramble, etc.... All those positions have been filled with the expectation of 800 participants. We can expect that part of the process will work smoothly. 


Again, when the limits are set so “fast” I am left wondering: Is there really an underlying desire to increase participation, or have we lost the forest for the trees and are more concerned about giving the fastest cubers as many events as THEY can do in a day? Was increased participation even a desire at all? Or can we rely upon the interest in 333 alone to keep these comps going? 


I would argue that it is important to grow interest in more events and support people trying new things. I realise it is a competition after all, but the first round of any event should be “fun” and obtainable to most competent cubers, not just the elites.


Someone else mentioned qualifying times for US Nationals and other comps. To be clear, I’m ALL for this. If you want to limit the pool and have all fast people, have qualifying times. But then I also think organizers should stop people when they are competing and fail to achieve a time that was required for qualification (for example, 4 min qualifying time for 3BLD at US Nationals... anyone that hits 4:01 on any solve should be stopped and awarded DNF to keep the comp moving since that was a published qualifying time).


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## Old Tom (Aug 14, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> I would argue that it is important to grow interest in more events and support people trying new things. I realise it is a competition after all, but the first round of any event should be “fun” and obtainable to most competent cubers, not just the elites.



Says it all!


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## AvGalen (Aug 14, 2018)

Old Tom said:


> Says it all!


Agreed. The whole post is excellent and makes what I previously wrote but couldn't post due to a login timeout. 

"hardly relevant" copy/paste of timed-out message:


mark49152 said:


> I hope you enjoyed Euros anyway, despite your disappointment in this event!


I fully understand that letting people do full solves takes more resources then just the solve time. I am strongly opposed to limiting very short solves to try to save time because now I feel like we are really wasting time.
I did enjoy Euro a lot, unfortunately mostly not for the actual cubing. The whole competition was too massive and because the soundsystem was horrible there was hardly any communication between organazition and competitors. There also was no announcer/speaker and there was no "psyc"-music during the finals or awards. And this was by far the most expensive competition that I went too with one of the lowest amounts of solves I have ever done. It was the city, the people, the general excitement, the partying and my son that made it worth while


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## mark49152 (Aug 14, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> I would argue that it is important to grow interest in more events and support people trying new things. I realise it is a competition after all, but the first round of any event should be “fun” and obtainable to most competent cubers, not just the elites.


I agree to a point, but the reality is that resources and time are finite. Longer first rounds have to be traded off against more events or rounds. For smaller comps that can offer fewer events there is more scope for doing that, and I'm all in favour of comps offering better chances to complete averages or means (personally don't have 6x6 or 7x7 means and sometimes miss 5x5 averages due to cutoffs, so I'm happy whenever I'm given a better chance). For national and continental championships there is an expectation that all events should be held, and that makes it more difficult to make that trade off.

I like the suggestion of having cutoffs set the same as qualification limits.


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## Old Tom (Aug 15, 2018)

Big progress on my blind quest (using OP). Doing solves semi-blind or in stages now, with enough successes to know I can do it (plenty of DNFs also). Memo is strong and fun, though still slow and with lots of review. Not using an actual blindfold, I am guessing most of you don't while practicing? Expect to attempt a full blind solve very soon. Main problems now are with un-setups, with locating unsolved spots for new cycles, and with knowing when I am done. These should be all a matter of practice and with finding my own way to handle them.

Two questions:

(1) I am using GAN magnetic cubes, both stickered and stickerless. I find I can fairly easily detect the white center cube (with the logo) just by feel, both types. I understand this is improper and illegal. How do you guys handle this?

(2) Right this minute I am looking at a half-solved practice cube, edges done. The corners are a bit weird: four of the pieces are in the correct position but twisted! So each will require a double-swap, using OP. Do you actively look for such pieces at the start of inspection, or normally just stumble on them during the trace? One of the pieces happens to be the buffer piece, so I guess I could just double-swap the other three right at the start. Would this be a sensible way to proceed?

Thanks guys. I have put that cube aside (I have others) while waiting to see what you say.

(I think I am getting addicted. Every person/thing/action I see now is becoming a Double Letter to be filed away.)


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## Mike Hughey (Aug 15, 2018)

@Old Tom , awesome progress! You should get a blindfold (or just make one from a big shirt or towel or something) and use it for your first real solve and video it (if you can) - it would be quite inspirational for many people, I'm sure! (If you can't video it, of course it's okay; I'm just saying people would love to see it if you could.)

I use a blindfold at home on most of my Weekly Competition blindsolves on our website here, but I generally just close my eyes (and make a motion as if I were pulling the blindfold on) during other practice solves.

1. I now always remove all logos as soon as I get new cubes, since I care most about blindsolving them. I don't have any GANs, so I can't speak to how to deal with them.

2. When I memorize corners, I place a finger on each one as I memorize to keep track of which ones I've hit. Whatever is left, I see if they're a new cycle. If so, I start the new cycle. But if they're twisted in place, I just memorize them separately and use a twisting algorithm to solve them before solving the other corners. If there's just one corner twisted, I twist it one way and the buffer piece (wherever it is) the other way before beginning solving. If there are two twisted pieces the same direction, I twist both plus the buffer piece, all 3 the same direction. Etc.


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## SpartanSailor (Aug 15, 2018)

@Old Tom congrats on the progress. It’s pretty fun, right?

1. I too remove the logos right away. There’s not other option, really. But, I inspect/memo my cube and before donning my blindfold (or closing my eyes) I place my cube in my standard orientation— the one used to apply my letter scheme. That way I know it’s properly oriented before I begin. After that... it remains that way unless I make an error and fumble the cube. If I fumble the cube, there’s no way to ensure I have properly oriented it before continuing. That’s just most likely a DNF attempt. 

2. I actively look for twisted corners or flipped edges and make mental notes prior to the rest of my memo. My back/right edge is T-N. If it is flipped, for example, I note that I need TeNessee at the end of my edge memo. Similarly for any other edge or corner twist. 

I have recently taken less effort to look for these pieces as my confidence with tracing has increased a little. But I still sometimes take this “extra” memo step.


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## openseas (Aug 15, 2018)

@Old Tom / Congrats on your progress!

1) How to remove logo:
- Stickered logos are easy - just peel off the logo'd sticker (usually transparent, and not the colored sticker).
- Stickerless Gan: The best way is to use Ethylalcohol (not Acethone!). Use swab - rub it hard with wet (with ethylalcohol or ethanol). You'll see the progress. Others rub with rubber or some silicons but ethanol is way easier to do. Actually, it is also very useful to clear your cube surface. Recommend to purchase one bottle (plenty in Amazon)

2) Two ways:
- just handle individual sticker (color) as one single target. But this is easy but way too slow.
- memorize twist algs and flip algs. Corner twist algs are not that intuitive. Many people just settled with left-Sune/anti-Sune method but it is better to learn at least one alg and apply to the rest. The best and most representative algs are:
--- Corner twist: when UFR needs to go to FUR: U2 R' D R D' R' D R U2 R' D' R D R' D' R: For this, finger trick is the key. There is no re-grip. D and D' need to be done with left ring finger.
--- Edge flip: The most representative is flipping UF and UB (after this alg, UF becomes FU, UB becomes BU) or vice versa. It's (M' U)x 3 M' U2 (M' U) X3 M' = meaning repeating M' U four times. Once you're used to M' (much easier than M), it is really fast. So, setup any flipped edges to the opposite side of your buffer, then rotate the cube to make both flipped edges are located on top (like UF / UB position) then do this. A tip, I always do this flip alg in the last (after finishing all) so that I don't have to re-rotate the cube after executing this algorithm.


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## Mike Hughey (Aug 15, 2018)

@openseas - I really need to learn to do corner twists that way. I still rely on very old beginner methods for twisting corners. That algorithm is really nice; I really need to learn to do it. (Edit: I realize now it's just a slight variation - a little more optimized - of what I do, but much more fingertrickable. How do you rotate 3 corners in the same direction - is there a similar algorithm for that?)

But I don't understand your edge flip algorithm? If I do (M' U) x 4 I get 4 flipped edges - UB, UL, DB, DF? (I'm figuring if I'm confused, even if it's just because I don't understand the notation correctly, it's possible Old Tom might also have trouble with it?) I'm still using M' U M' U M' U2 M U M U M U2, which I don't doubt is probably an inefficient way to flip two edges; I'd love a better one.


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## openseas (Aug 15, 2018)

Mike Hughey said:


> But I don't understand your edge flip algorithm? If I do (M' U) x 4 I get 4 flipped edges - UB, UL, DB, DF? (I'm figuring if I'm confused, even if it's just because I don't understand the notation correctly, it's possible Old Tom might also have trouble with it?) I'm still using M' U M' U M' U2 M U M U M U2, which I don't doubt is probably an inefficient way to flip two edges; I'd love a better one.



@Mike Hughey / My bad: pasted a wrong algorithm (fixed it).

Also, another way to handle flip: Breaking into flipped edges by Tim


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## openseas (Aug 15, 2018)

Mike Hughey said:


> How do you rotate 3 corners in the same direction - is there a similar algorithm for that?



@Mike Hughey / They usually float two twists: 2 twist alg take care of 3 or more. (2 with floating, 1 with buffer).


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## mark49152 (Aug 15, 2018)

Mike Hughey said:


> How do you rotate 3 corners in the same direction - is there a similar algorithm for that?


I use (R U R' U') R' U' R' U' (R U R' U') R2 U2 R2 U2 R' U' and inverse, but only when no or one move setup. More complex setups make it not worth it (for me).


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## Old Tom (Aug 15, 2018)

Might be time for a laugh.

Just noticed: Older Cubers Discussion = OCD = Obsessive Compulsive Disorder


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## SpartanSailor (Aug 15, 2018)

I still do twisted corners as a pair and just shoot to one face then to wherever that sticker is supposed to go. For edges, I just shoot to one of the targets then the other. It’s not efficient, but at this point I still have too many pauses to add new algs and stuff to think about. Getting the two-at-a-time with FU and BD paired with a non-M-slice edge is about as advanced as I am willing to go right now. When all this becomes a smooth and with relatively few (hopefully none) pauses, I’ll add some efficencies. I understand them (well, some of them), I just want to limit the number of things I have to think about at this point.


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## SpartanSailor (Aug 15, 2018)

Old Tom said:


> Might be time for a laugh.
> 
> Just noticed: Older Cubers Discussion = OCD = Obsessive Compulsive Disorder


HAHAHAHAHAHA... too true.


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## newtonbase (Aug 15, 2018)

openseas said:


> @Mike Hughey / My bad: pasted a wrong algorithm (fixed it).
> 
> Also, another way to handle flip: Breaking into flipped edges by Tim


I watched that this morning. It's interesting but not as fast for me at the moment. He says 2 comms are faster than a comm and a flip but my flips are much faster than my comms. I know quite a few of them well enough to do in anger including your UB and UL one. 
I like the RD twist alg. I've only ever really learned Sexy, Sexy, L', inverse Sexy, inverse Sexy, L plus the reverse and L2 versions.


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## SpartanSailor (Aug 15, 2018)

newtonbase said:


> I've only ever really learned Sexy, Sexy, L', inverse Sexy, inverse Sexy, L plus the reverse and L2 versions.



That twists my UFL corner... and is WAY faster than doing OP corners twice. If that turns up this weekend and I’m feeling bold, I may try that.


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## openseas (Aug 15, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> I still do twisted corners as a pair and just shoot to one face then to wherever that sticker is supposed to go. For edges, I just shoot to one of the targets then the other. It’s not efficient, but at this point I still have too many pauses to add new algs and stuff to think about. Getting the two-at-a-time with FU and BD paired with a non-M-slice edge is about as advanced as I am willing to go right now. When all this becomes a smooth and with relatively few (hopefully none) pauses, I’ll add some efficencies. I understand them (well, some of them), I just want to limit the number of things I have to think about at this point.



@SpartanSailor / I'm pretty sure you're "afraid" of M slice. M' slice is way easier and simple. The one I'm referring to is only using M' U. --> M' U M' U M' U M' U2 M' U M' U M' U M', it flips opposite edges. 



newtonbase said:


> I watched that this morning. It's interesting but not as fast for me at the moment. He says 2 comms are faster than a comm and a flip but my flips are much faster than my comms. I know quite a few of them well enough to do in anger including your UB and UL one.
> I like the RD twist alg. I've only ever really learned Sexy, Sexy, L', inverse Sexy, inverse Sexy, L plus the reverse and L2 versions.



@newtonbase / 
For edges, I use two algs: one for opposite, and the 2nd for neighboring - M' U' M U2 M' U' M' U' M' U2 M U' M2 
For corners, one alg can take care of the whole corners with simple setup: 
UFR: U2 (R' D R D' R' D R) U2 (R' D' R D R' D' R)
UBR: U (R' D R D' R' D R) U (R' D R D' R' D R) U2
UFL: U' (R' D R D' R' D R) U' (R' D R D' R' D R) U2
FDR: Same as UFR but R setup
RDB: Same as UFR but R2 setup
FLD: Same as UFR but DR setup

LDB: this one, setup is ok but I also use lefty sune thing.


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## SpartanSailor (Aug 16, 2018)

Headed out to the Lancaster, PA, comp sometime tomorrow. Comp begins on Friday morning. I’ll be competing in the following:
FMC (First time.... really just making the most of being there anyway)
MBLD (First time also...gonna submit 3 and hope to get at least 2)
3BLD (I’d like an official mean... otherwise, I’ll just enjoy it. I haven’t practiced as much as I’d hoped recently)
333 (i’ll take just about anything at this point, but I would really love a low-20s average and sub-20 single)
222 (just want that 6.xx average in a comp)
444 (sub-1:20 average... with 1:15 cutoff, I’ll need a good start to make that happen anyway)
555 (sub-3:00 single... would be great to get a 2:4x single)
666 (registered, not even gonna bother showing up...cutoffs and limits are faster than I can hope to attain)
OH (won’t make cutoff, don’t practice. With luck I’ll get an easy OLL/PLL and something sub-1:00 for a single)
Pyra (another I don’t practice...I’ll do it if I’m not too tire by that late in the day)


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## SpartanSailor (Aug 16, 2018)

openseas said:


> @SpartanSailor / I'm pretty sure you're "afraid" of M slice. M' slice is way easier and simple. The one I'm referring to is only using M' U. --> M' U M' U M' U M' U2 M' U M' U M' U M', it flips opposite edges.


I just need to figure out how to use that. I actually do that with M’ and U’.... super fast for me (right hand for M’ and Left hand for U’).


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## h2f (Aug 16, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> I just need to figure out how to use that. I actually do that with M’ and U’.... super fast for me (right hand for M’ and Left hand for U’).



Just do U' instead of U. I do it the same way with M' right and U' left hand: M' U' M' U' M' U' M' U2 M' U' M' U' M' U' M'.


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## Mike Hughey (Aug 16, 2018)

openseas said:


> --- Edge flip: ... (M' U)x 3 M' U2 (M' U) X3 M'


I just remembered why I don't use this. It's not center-safe for big cubes, whereas M' U M' U M' U2 M U M U M U2 is center-safe.

Since I pretty much only care about big cubes, I don't want to mess myself up there just for a few extra milliseconds on 3BLD.


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## SpartanSailor (Aug 16, 2018)

Mike Hughey said:


> I just remembered why I don't use this. It's not center-safe for big cubes, whereas M' U M' U M' U2 M U M U M U2 is center-safe.
> 
> Since I pretty much only care about big cubes, I don't want to mess myself up there just for a few extra milliseconds on 3BLD. [/user]


Makes sense. The two are very similar anyway. the combo of M’ and U is awkward for me because I use the same hand/finger. But M’ and U’ I use opposite hands—likewise for M and U. M and U is more comfortable for me than M’ U. Now that I know there is a center-safe concern for 4BLD, I’ll just learn this one when I’m ready to add new stuff to my toolkit.


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## Mike Hughey (Aug 16, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> Now that I know there is a center-safe concern for 4BLD...


Well, really just 5BLD, I guess.  (well, for me, 5BLD and 7BLD...)


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## SpartanSailor (Aug 16, 2018)

Ive learned a lot in the past 8 months about blind solving. I’ve even dabbled with learning 4BLD and although I’m a LONG way from actually attempting 4BLD, I do have the concepts and can reasonable see the application to even larger cubes blind solving. 

One of the things I’ve learned, however, is that I’m pretty sure 5+ bigblind isn’t something I’ll be doing... lol


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## mark49152 (Aug 16, 2018)

Mike Hughey said:


> Since I pretty much only care about big cubes, I don't want to mess myself up there just for a few extra milliseconds on 3BLD.


It is possible to use both 

I don't find I mix them up at all. Perhaps because in 5BLD I do M moves like 3Rw 2Rw' so the muscle memory is completely different.


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## h2f (Aug 16, 2018)

mark49152 said:


> It is possible to use both



Yes it is. I do them both. I needed a little practice to get used to the center safe flip.


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## Mike Hughey (Aug 16, 2018)

h2f said:


> Yes it is. I do them both. I needed a little practice to get used to the center safe flip.


Of course I know I could learn both; it just scares me. My fears (of DNFs) are often what hold me back with BLD, I'm afraid.

In general I've always had a rough time learning algorithms. It seems like every time I learn one alg, I forget another. For me it has always seemed like the fewer algorithms I rely on, the better.


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## Old Tom (Aug 16, 2018)

Mike Hughey said:


> Of course I know I could learn both; it just scares me. My fears (of DNFs) are often what hold me back with BLD, I'm afraid.
> 
> In general I've always had a rough time learning algorithms. It seems like every time I learn one alg, I forget another. For me it has always seemed like the fewer algorithms I rely on, the better.



Just wait til you get to 80. New algs are definitely hard on a creaky mind. The five new algs I am now needing for Old Pochmann are definitely the hardest part of my blind quest. Finger memory, hah! And what does this one do, hah! I am getting there, but I don't dare put it aside for even a day. Poof!


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## h2f (Aug 17, 2018)

Mike Hughey said:


> Of course I know I could learn both; it just scares me. My fears (of DNFs) are often what hold me back with BLD, I'm afraid.



I've forced myself to use it though I always thrill if I do it ok. Few times I did DNF because of it. For FL or FR flips I use just pure M2 solution to avoid setups. 

Tomorrow I have a comp with 5bld round. Wish me luck.


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## moralsh (Aug 17, 2018)

Good liuck Grzegorz!

(and everybody else who might be competing soon)


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## SpartanSailor (Aug 17, 2018)

My son and I arrived to the hotel last night. With a 0830 start time, I didn’t want to get up and start driving at 0400. That being said, I’m about to head down for my first time giving a shot at FMC in about an hour. to be honest, I haven’t learned anything special and only plan to essentially write out my CFOP solution. I do,however, expect that I will have the time to write/find more optimal F2L solutions and cross solution. 

I think the hardest part will be writing out my OLL and PLL. Most all of those are muscle memory so I’m sure I will have to do them a dozen times trying to write them out as I go... I think the limit is 80. That should be doable with an efficient CFOP solution. If the limit is 60.... I’ll have to be lucky. HAHAHAHAHA 

But today also has MBLD. I’ll be submitting 3 cubes and hopefully something good happens.


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## Old Tom (Aug 17, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> My son and I arrived to the hotel last night. With a 0830 start time, I didn’t want to get up and start driving at 0400. That being said, I’m about to head down for my first time giving a shot at FMC in about an hour. to be honest, I haven’t learned anything special and only plan to essentially write out my CFOP solution. I do,however, expect that I will have the time to write/find more optimal F2L solutions and cross solution.
> 
> I think the hardest part will be writing out my OLL and PLL. Most all of those are muscle memory so I’m sure I will have to do them a dozen times trying to write them out as I go... I think the limit is 80. That should be doable with an efficient CFOP solution. If the limit is 60.... I’ll have to be lucky. HAHAHAHAHA
> 
> But today also has MBLD. I’ll be submitting 3 cubes and hopefully something good happens.



Go for it! Will be waiting for your report.


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## h2f (Aug 17, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> I think the hardest part will be writing out my OLL and PLL. Most all of those are muscle memory so I’m sure I will have to do them a dozen times trying to write them out as I go... I think the limit is 80. That should be doable with an efficient CFOP solution. If the limit is 60.... I’ll have to be lucky. HAHAHAHAHA



Good luck.


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## SpartanSailor (Aug 17, 2018)

First round of FMC.... 52! LOL... not a DNF and that is what I was hoping to achieve. I may even do the next two rounds and round the day with a mean!

But next is MBLD. The biggest decision is which cubes to use.
Edit to add:
I submitted 3 and had 2 solid for memo. Both required parity. I nailed the first and the second. Opened my eyes to see that I forgot to do the parity alg on #2... since #3 was just a throw away, I DNF’d.

But I’ll admit, it still felt pretty good to be a part of the MBLD comp with a reasonable chance at success. There’s always next time.


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## mark49152 (Aug 17, 2018)

Good luck @SpartanSailor, @h2f and anyone else competing this weekend!


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## SpartanSailor (Aug 17, 2018)

So, end of Day 1. 

MBLD—1/3 DNF by forgetting parity Alf on cube #2. I nailed that memo, though... 7 hours later and I can still recall that entire memo. 

FMC—52 best 56.33 mean. The funny thing is, consistency brings it home. I actually ended up 10/64 on the day! Lol. Top 10 in my FMC debut! I may as well hang it up, boys... it isn’t getting better than that. Of course it helped that most of the good competitors had at least one error/DNF solution. But... I’ll sleep well tonite and I’m pretty pleased with both outcomes. 

Tomorrow has 222,555,666,OH,pyra and 3BLD. Busy day tomorrow.


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## Old Tom (Aug 18, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> So, end of Day 1.
> 
> MBLD—1/3 DNF by forgetting parity Alf on cube #2. I nailed that memo, though... 7 hours later and I can still recall that entire memo.
> 
> ...



Great FMC! Bet you try the 666 in spite of what you've been saying.


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## SpartanSailor (Aug 18, 2018)

Old Tom said:


> Great FMC! Bet you try the 666 in spite of what you've been saying.


Well... they assigned me to judge too.... so, I’ll have to be there anyway


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## pglewis (Aug 18, 2018)

Good luck to all those competing this weekend and nice job on FMC @SpartanSailor!


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## h2f (Aug 18, 2018)

Tripple DNF in 5bld. Once it was close.


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## openseas (Aug 18, 2018)

@SpartanSailor / Congrats on your 3BLD success!


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## SpartanSailor (Aug 18, 2018)

openseas said:


> @SpartanSailor / Congrats on your 3BLD success!


It must have already posted? I was a little disappointed the first one could have been a sub-3 easy, but I forget a letter pair.... DNF. And did a 2:28 in my room before hand. But it was nice to get another official sub-4 (3:43). My nerves were much worse today than has been in the past. Lol


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## SpartanSailor (Aug 18, 2018)

End of Day 2:

222–as per my usual, slower than I would prefer. But, I honestly didn’t practice and I’m still reasonably close to my normal times. Ao5 was 7.46 and my times were 7.35, 7.42, 7.44, 7.49, 8.02. I can’t complain too much with that level of consistency. 

666-I did sit down to take a shot despite my recent arguments for more lenient times. Didn’t matter either way, i only got two turns (not even a complete first bar) before my cube popped and it was over. There was no way I was repairing that and still making a decent solve. I had to get help putting it back together in the end. That was annoying.

555–2:57 single. My goal was sub 3. I made it. My other attempt was a 3:13. 2:30 was cutoff and 3:30 was the limit. Both my attempts had significant errors in OLL and PLL. that 2:57 should have been under 2:50... which is my new goal for a comp. Sug 2:50 single. I’ll inch my way down to a time that allows me to get an average, but until then, I’m pleased with this one. 

3BLD—already reported on that earlier. Overall, I’m pleased. In the end, consistency and success plays out. I finished top half simply by having a success.

Pyra—ao5 of 22.33. Nothing to brag about. I was tracking for a sub-20 until the last two... I believe my PB average is 21 too... so, although I don’t give it much attention, it would have been nice to walk away with an official PB and sub-20 average.

OH—only got two attempts. I don’t know all my OLL/PLL one-handed. In fact, I don’t know my regular OLL/PLL except by muscle memory. So going one-handed I’m working with far less in the toolbox. That said, I basically did 2 look OLL and 2 look PLL.... 40 was the cutoff and 1:30 the limit. This is another event I do because I can make it under 1:30 and since I’m here anyway, may as well get involved. I got a 56 and a 1:06 single. The 56 is my PB, so that’s nice.

Still up tomorrow, the infamous 3x3 and 4x4. I’m always wanting to do well in 3x3, but I’m going to try to remain relaxed and enjoy—let the times happen and move on. However, I REALLY want a sub 1:20 4x4 average. I’m more than capable, I just need to avoid a bad first couple attempts. The 1:15 cutoff could be my undoing if I have a rough start, but again... got to take them one at a time and just try to enjoy it.


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## Old Tom (Aug 18, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> End of Day 2:
> 
> 222–as per my usual, slower than I would prefer. But, I honestly didn’t practice and I’m still reasonably close to my normal times. Ao5 was 7.46 and my times were 7.35, 7.42, 7.44, 7.49, 8.02. I can’t complain too much with that level of consistency.
> 
> ...



I have been watching the live postings. Congrats on the sub-1 OH!

Am impressed by this kid who went from a 3:45 PB 3BLD to take first with an 0:29!


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## SpartanSailor (Aug 18, 2018)

Old Tom said:


> I have been watching the live postings. Congrats on the sub-1 OH!
> 
> Am impressed by this kid who went from a 3:45 PB 3BLD to take first with an 0:29!


Definitely... he was impressive


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## CLL Smooth (Aug 19, 2018)

I’ve finally picked through the accomplishment thread and have found what I think are my current PBs in the events I practice. Can someone add me to the pb sheet if I just write them here?


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## h2f (Aug 19, 2018)

Congrats @SpartanSailor.

I wasnt lucky in 5bld but got 3rd in FMC. As @SpartanSailor mentioned - consistency is the key. One of the potential winners was 5 seconds to win but he lost when he was rewriting solution: he had it in few parts and messed. It ended DNF because he passed a time limit which is sad even if it gave me 3rd place. Other one - who practiced few hours per day in a last few weeks - wasnt lucky in a second scramble and DNFed.

My 27 is a nightmare in a beginng but ended 25 moves to 3 corners. I've found optimal insertion with -6 and in ended 27. I was one move to silver but also one more move to be 4th.

A thought: I've practiced a lot in 5bld and I couldnt make it. I didnt practice FMC since April and I got 3rd.


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## h2f (Aug 19, 2018)

It turned out I'm 4th. The solution of 2nd solver on 2nd scramble work fine.


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## openseas (Aug 19, 2018)

@SpartanSailor / What happened? Were there any pops / twists?


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## SpartanSailor (Aug 20, 2018)

openseas said:


> @SpartanSailor / What happened? Were there any pops / twists?


Just massive meltdown. I haven’t done that poorly on an Ao5 that I can ever recall. I was about to get a 19 for the first time in comp than blew my PLL then blew it again and ended with a 40 something. Then the 51... well... I have no words.

I just left after that terrible 3x3 event and didn’t even wait for 4x4. I was so frustrated and upset there was no way I’d have been ready for 4x4. Had I stayed and just repeated what happened with 3x3, I’d have been genuinely upset. So, my son and I checked-out of the hotel and headed home early. Which was nice after all, avoided some DC area traffic (some, not all) and got home in time to relax before my evening plans anyway.

Edit to add:
My son, on the other hand was super consistent yesterday resulting in a new PB Ao5 and missed a PB single by fractions of a second. I was thrilled for him.


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## mark49152 (Aug 20, 2018)

@SpartanSailor - that's sad to hear. I remember getting upset like that at my second comp after DNFing a 3x3 average. These days, disappointment doesn't affect me quite so much. Meltdowns just happen now and again, and every comp seems to be a mixture of good and bad. So I just try to shrug and move on to the next event and hope that it goes better than the last one .


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## SpartanSailor (Aug 20, 2018)

I normally do too, but this one somehow upset me more than normal. Plus, this was the second comp in a row that had this type of 3x3 result. 

In the end, I am pleased with a few other outcomes so it didn’t ruin the weekend for me. But out next comp in 2 weeks will not focus on 3x3 at all. No blind at that one either, so I may just set those aside in favour of 4x4 and 5x5. Still too far away from the 5x5 cutoff, but there plenty of room for a PB single.


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## Old Tom (Aug 20, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> Just massive meltdown. I haven’t done that poorly on an Ao5 that I can ever recall. I was about to get a 19 for the first time in comp than blew my PLL then blew it again and ended with a 40 something. Then the 51... well... I have no words.
> 
> I just left after that terrible 3x3 event and didn’t even wait for 4x4. I was so frustrated and upset there was no way I’d have been ready for 4x4. Had I stayed and just repeated what happened with 3x3, I’d have been genuinely upset. So, my son and I checked-out of the hotel and headed home early. Which was nice after all, avoided some DC area traffic (some, not all) and got home in time to relax before my evening plans anyway.
> 
> ...



Sorry about that. I know the feeling from a couple of bridge tourneys where I've blown it. We all do. Knowing you, you will kick yourself for a few days, then move on even more determined.

The rest of your events were good to great. And your son was great also. I noticed how tight the range of his solves were! Solid.


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## AvGalen (Aug 20, 2018)

Saturday I learned
...that starting with 5x5x5 (my main event) immediately after driving the car means horrible times
...that I can solve SQ1...barely...but that isn't too bad because Michael Fung has actually gotten worse compared to 10 years ago because he forgot all his algs...almost the same on 444 now as well although he did learn Yau
...3x3x3 went pretty well with several non-lucky solves in the 15 second area, some of them official. Fun to race a girl that just barely couldn't get sub20
...and having a 2 day competition with Friday instead of Sunday is good for children on their summer break, but not for "older cubers" . No 6x6x6 or 7x7x7 for me 

Also, bought a twisted Skewb that is SO much more fun than a regular one. More pretty and a nice hidden challenge with non-center-safe algs


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## SpartanSailor (Aug 20, 2018)

Old Tom said:


> Sorry about that. I know the feeling from a couple of bridge tourneys where I've blown it. We all do. Knowing you, you will kick yourself for a few days, then move on even more determined.
> 
> The rest of your events were good to great. And your son was great also. I noticed how tight the range of his solves were! Solid.


Yeah, he was super consistent. I was really proud of him.


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## pglewis (Aug 23, 2018)

I'm entering what is likely to be a brutal few months for work. Things are going well and on schedule so far (practically never happens in software) but it's definitely cutting into practice time and I haven't been able to touch my side project for letter pairs in a week and a half. 

I need to hear some personal victories here so I can live vicariously through y'all!


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## SpartanSailor (Aug 23, 2018)

I hear ya... I am about to get slammed for the next few months as well. I tried to milk as much out of this summer practice as possible, but after the next week I’ll be scrambling (no pun intended) just to get a little practice. I DO think that practice will focus on 3BLD when I have time since that is an area that I feel I can still maintain improvements without hours of constant drilling.


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## Mike Hughey (Aug 23, 2018)

pglewis said:


> I need to hear some personal victories here so I can live vicariously through y'all!



One surprising shocker that came out of nowhere is that I got a new PB single for 7x7x7 speedsolve yesterday (for our online weekly competition, third solve): 5:41.97. It was all due to REALLY fast centers - I had centers finished by about 2:30. My previous PB was 5:51.68, almost 10 seconds slower, which I actually got in an official competition a few months ago. I've been trying to learn to freeslice edges for big cubes for the past year or so, but just a few months ago I started doing them "properly", where the slicing is horizontal (I originally learned to slice vertical because I was doing AvG), and I'm finally starting to get almost as fast that way as I was with vertical slicing. But the centers on this particular solve were just amazing.


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## Old Tom (Aug 23, 2018)

No successes to report. I am stalled on my 3BLD Quest, though working diligently at it. Still doing corner solves and edge solves separately, but nowhere near solid enough on either to try a full solve. Not sure where my mistakes are (doing it blind I rarely know where I messed up). Probably one thing here and another thing there. Usually, I think I've done everything correctly, only to discover a completely scrambled cube at the end when I look. Mostly, I then just laugh.

Not at all discouraged. Everything is getting easier every day, and sighted solves are going just fine. When it happens, I suspect it will come fast.


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## xyzzy (Aug 24, 2018)

Mike Hughey said:


> I've been trying to learn to freeslice edges for big cubes for the past year or so, but just a few months ago I started doing them "properly", where the slicing is horizontal (I originally learned to slice vertical because I was doing AvG), and I'm finally starting to get almost as fast that way as I was with vertical slicing.


If by vertical you mean edge pairing in M, M-slice edge pairing is pretty rare among the fast solvers, but Anyu Zhang uses it and he's currently WR5 for 777 and WR10 for 666.

(I also use M-slice edge pairing, since wrist turns seem to be more reliable. Thought of seriously trying E-slice a couple of times, but never stuck with it.)


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## Mike Hughey (Aug 24, 2018)

xyzzy said:


> If by vertical you mean edge pairing in M...


Yes, that is what I meant. At the last competition I attended, I judged for a lot of big cubes solves, and I couldn't help noticing how almost no one there used M-slice edge pairing. So I decided I'd try to switch. I'd say I'm still far from comfortable with it, but it is getting much better now, and I think it is likely to work better for me once I really get used to it.


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## h2f (Aug 24, 2018)

pglewis said:


> I need to hear some personal victories here so I can live vicariously through y'all!



I did 200 3bld solves since Monday to Wednesday with PBs in ao5 and ao12 (1:02.xx).  First 30-50 I was remebering how to do it fast.


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## JohnnyReggae (Aug 24, 2018)

I've delved into Megaminx over the last few days. Got the new Galaxy v2 M the other day. Definitely the best Megaminx I've used and so light and small. Within the first 5 solves I had broken my previous PB 4 times. New PB is now at 3:43.79, although I seem to be averaging around the 4:20, 4:30 mark. Using a beginners method for solving the S2L which is really inefficient. Also on the last layer I spam Sune to do CO which again is very inefficient.

Any advice on a good method for S2L, and perhaps a 2Look for last layer CO ?


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## SpartanSailor (Aug 24, 2018)

h2f said:


> I did 200 3bld solves since Monday to Wednesday with PBs in ao5 and ao12 (1:02.xx).  First 30-50 I was remebering how to do it fast.


200!? Wow.


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## h2f (Aug 24, 2018)

For around 5 months I didnt do 3bld. I felt very hungry of it.

The most imoprtant thing is that I've changed few habits in memo which I've learnt from 5bld and also I've changed plenty words from my memo. I hope 5bld practice pays off in my memo. I've also started drilling some algs because I've changed cube to Weilong GTS3 M (my magnets) and S and E moves seems much easier on it.


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## SpartanSailor (Aug 24, 2018)

JohnnyReggae said:


> I've delved into Megaminx over the last few days. Got the new Galaxy v2 M the other day. Definitely the best Megaminx I've used and so light and small. Within the first 5 solves I had broken my previous PB 4 times. New PB is now at 3:43.79, although I seem to be averaging around the 4:20, 4:30 mark. Using a beginners method for solving the S2L which is really inefficient. Also on the last layer I spam Sune to do CO which again is very inefficient.
> 
> Any advice on a good method for S2L, and perhaps a 2Look for last layer CO ?


I got interested in Megaminx back in April/May timeframe. I don’t have the new Galaxy 2M, but would like it. My problem with Mega is the same as I had with larger cubes (5-7)—the layers I’m not working slip out of position making it harder to turn and less enjoyable to solve. When I stopped, I think I was about the same place as you...perhaps a little slower, but I never learned any last layer ALGS and just spammed a couple monotonous ALGS to painfully work the last layer. But, it’s still a fun puzzle to have on the shelf and I’ll get into it again soon. I DID have the opportunity to try a Galaxy 2M last weekend and now I want one. If I had that, I would definitely give it more attention.


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## xyzzy (Aug 24, 2018)

JohnnyReggae said:


> Any advice on a good method for S2L, and perhaps a 2Look for last layer CO ?


For "2-look" corner orientation (which is more like 1-look 2-alg), you can use "intelligent Sune spam".

3 misoriented: R U R' U R U2' R'; R' U' R U' R' U2 R; and the inverses of these cover all the cases with three misoriented corners. Should be fairly easy to recognise since they're similar to the 3×3×3 cases solved by the same algs. (The mnemonic I use is that the Sunes orient three adjacent corners, while the Antisunes orient two adjacent corners and one "unconnected" corner.)
Everything else: try to twist three corners using one of the above algs so that you'll be left with three misoriented corners, then use one of the above algs again to finish CO. This always works and you can always solve CO with at most two Sunes/Antisunes.
Probably better to just learn proper 1-look CO algs instead, though. Many of them are similar to 3×3×3 OLL/COLL algs, so even though 16 cases might sound like a lot, you probably already know half of them.

For S2L… (almost) everyone pretty much just does "star then F2L-style pairs" repeatedly on different colours until it's finished. Do have a look at the CubeSkills tutorials.


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## AvGalen (Aug 24, 2018)

Mike Hughey said:


> I've been trying to learn to freeslice edges for big cubes for the past year or so, but just a few months ago I started doing them "properly", where the slicing is horizontal (I originally learned to slice vertical because I was doing AvG.….Yes, that is what I meant. At the last competition I attended, I judged for a lot of big cubes solves, and I couldn't help noticing how almost no one there used M-slice edge pairing. So I decided I'd try to switch. I'd say I'm still far from comfortable with it, but it is getting much better now, and I think it is likely to work better for me once I really get used to it.


Funny, because I do AvG with the slicing horizontal, which is NOT what I would recommend to most people.
Doing 2:30 for 7x7x7 centers is very very quick. My best solve (a sub 5) was about that for centers. For edge-pairing I am at a very steady "30 seconds per 6 pairs", meaning 30 seconds for 4x4x4, 60 for 5x5x5, 90 for 6x6x6, 120 for 7x7x7, etc. In reality this means that the best way for me to improve is by turning faster
If you do 2:30 for centers but get a 5:42 for your total I would recommend switching back to AvG


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## Mike Hughey (Aug 24, 2018)

AvGalen said:


> If you do 2:30 for centers but get a 5:42 for your total I would recommend switching back to AvG


The 2:30 centers was VERY unusual for me. I'm almost always over 3:00 for centers, sometimes over 3:30, maybe once every 10 solves I might get 2:50-2:55. I've never gotten anything as fast as 2:30 before that solve. As for my edges, 3:12 for edges now with horizontal freeslice is actually pretty good for me. But it is still improving rather rapidly and I think it's worth giving it a try for a while before I give up and go back to AvG.

And anyway, it seems like I always go back to AvG right before an official competition anyway; I have another competition in a month and a half where I'll be doing 5x5x5, so I'll probably go back to it again then for that.  I always give AvG a try about 3 or 4 days before the competition, and inevitably I'm instantly better with AvG than I am with whatever I've been practicing for the past few months. It will probably happen again.  The good news is, it's a kind of fun way to get better with AvG - never practice it, just practice other methods, and my AvG mysteriously gets better.


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## adimare (Aug 24, 2018)

Old Tom said:


> No successes to report. I am stalled on my 3BLD Quest, though working diligently at it. Still doing corner solves and edge solves separately, but nowhere near solid enough on either to try a full solve. Not sure where my mistakes are (doing it blind I rarely know where I messed up). Probably one thing here and another thing there. Usually, I think I've done everything correctly, only to discover a completely scrambled cube at the end when I look. Mostly, I then just laugh.
> 
> Not at all discouraged. Everything is getting easier every day, and sighted solves are going just fine. When it happens, I suspect it will come fast.



One thing you can try to reduce the frustration factor is to keep trying the same scramble until you get a success. So for instance, you could try a simple corners only scramble like this one: R' F2 L F2 U2 L2 U2 F2 L U' L U F2 L U R U' and if you fail, instead of trying a different scramble you can try to figure out what went wrong and try the same scramble again until you get a success. That'll greatly increase the amount of successes you get (because you're way likelier to get a success on a scramble you've already tried that on a brand new one) so it makes practice feel more rewarding, and it has the added benefit of forcing you to work on cases where you're having problems that might take awhile to show up again if you keep trying different scrambles (for example, if you have trouble solving the DFR corner and that's what caused you to mess up your solve, it's probably more beneficial to try again until you're able to solve DFR instead of going for a different scramble where you probably won't have to deal with DFR at all).


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## newtonbase (Aug 24, 2018)

Good luck to everyone competing at ABHC or anywhere else this weekend. I'm jealous and need a comp to get me focused again.


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## pglewis (Aug 24, 2018)

adimare said:


> One thing you can try to reduce the frustration factor is to keep trying the same scramble until you get a success. So for instance, you could try a simple corners only scramble like this one: R' F2 L F2 U2 L2 U2 F2 L U' L U F2 L U R U' and if you fail, instead of trying a different scramble you can try to figure out what went wrong and try the same scramble again until you get a success. That'll greatly increase the amount of successes you get (because you're way likelier to get a success on a scramble you've already tried that on a brand new one) so it makes practice feel more rewarding, and it has the added benefit of forcing you to work on cases where you're having problems that might take awhile to show up again if you keep trying different scrambles (for example, if you have trouble solving the DFR corner and that's what caused you to mess up your solve, it's probably more beneficial to try again until you're able to solve DFR instead of going for a different scramble where you probably won't have to deal with DFR at all).



Excellent advice here, @Old Tom. None of the individual parts of the solve are that hard, it's just the variety of ways you can make one little mistake and often no way to know where things went South. Use a generated scramble so you can re-create it to troubleshoot (and I think a lot of people scramble from their orientation, if different from WCA, so it's easier to share the same scramble with someone using a different orientation).


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## Old Tom (Aug 25, 2018)

@adimare and @pglewis: thanks for the tips and advice. I have been doing a new scramble each time, to get experience with memo and trace, but I suspect I am stronger on those aspects than on execution, especially setups and un-setups. So, I will re-do scrambles, as you suggest, and try to discern where I have messed up.

This morning I did some very relaxed and successful corner solves, so on to edges. Hardest part for me there is to keep track of unsolved locations for new cycles, with 11 total spots. I have some ideas for that, working on it. It is also a problem for me switching from one alg to another with edges, this should just be a matter of practice. An 80-yr old brain is a little slower (maybe a lot) getting those algs to be automatic. But it will happen.


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## newtonbase (Aug 25, 2018)

I want to remove logos from stickerless cubes. Ethanol doesn't seem easily available so would isopropyl alcohol do the job? I know acetone makes a mess of the plastic.


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## newtonbase (Aug 25, 2018)

1:10.34 3BLD PB. Parity edge swap made it a nice 7/8 solve. Used some comms.


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## Old Tom (Aug 25, 2018)

newtonbase said:


> I want to remove logos from stickerless cubes. Ethanol doesn't seem easily available so would isopropyl alcohol do the job? I know acetone makes a mess of the plastic.



Do you have Amazon in the UK? I bought a bottle of 95% ethanol from them, which worked fine to remove my GAN logos. I used "magic eraser" instead of cotton; the result was perfect, no abrasion at all. You might try 90% (not 70) isopropyl with this if you cannot get ethanol.


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## mark49152 (Aug 25, 2018)

MBLD 13/20 in 60:00 at ABHC. Not great but I'm not too disappointed given that I've done virtually no practice for months.


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## Old Tom (Aug 26, 2018)

Almost there on the 3BLD Quest! And thanks again to @adimare for the tip on re-doing scrambles. I tried that. Failed once last night, twice on re-dos this morning, and then on the fourth try, there it was, a solved cube, done completely blind. A thrill to see that pristine thing! Not counting this as my first true solve, but soon!


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## pglewis (Aug 26, 2018)

Old Tom said:


> Almost there on the 3BLD Quest! And thanks again to @adimare for the tip on re-doing scrambles. I tried that. Failed once last night, twice on re-dos this morning, and then on the fourth try, there it was, a solved cube, done completely blind. A thrill to see that pristine thing! Not counting this as my first true solve, but soon!



That's a really big milestone IMO. You now know for certain that you can do it if you get all the little bits right. You may have accepted that before but the first time you look and actually see it solved is different. 

You're approaching some rather exclusive territory which afaik consists entirely of you and Hideaki.


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## Old Tom (Aug 26, 2018)

Time for another laugh. I am staying with my lady friend (also in her 80s) this summer at her island cottage, and driving her crazy with this blind-solving stuff. I keep asking her, "What's a good memo for [insert letter pair]"? She is actually really good at it, which is why I ask. The other day I was stuck with a tough one, so asked, "What's a good memo for KQ"? Without a blink, she said, "Keep Quiet"!

(Aside: I settled on "Kings and Queens", visualizing a chessboard.)


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## SpartanSailor (Aug 26, 2018)

Old Tom said:


> Almost there on the 3BLD Quest! And thanks again to @adimare for the tip on re-doing scrambles. I tried that. Failed once last night, twice on re-dos this morning, and then on the fourth try, there it was, a solved cube, done completely blind. A thrill to see that pristine thing! Not counting this as my first true solve, but soon!


That’s great! I love the feeling of closing my eyes and/or putting on a blindfold last seeing a scrambled cube. Then, to open my eyes and see a fully solved cube. It’s a great feeling and it sounds like you have a solid method to get it right.


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## newtonbase (Aug 27, 2018)

Old Tom said:


> Time for another laugh. I am staying with my lady friend (also in her 80s) this summer at her island cottage, and driving her crazy with this blind-solving stuff. I keep asking her, "What's a good memo for [insert letter pair]"? She is actually really good at it, which is why I ask. The other day I was stuck with a tough one, so asked, "What's a good memo for KQ"? Without a blink, she said, "Keep Quiet"!
> 
> (Aside: I settled on "Kings and Queens", visualizing a chessboard.)


Haha. Keep Quiet could be quite a good image. You could have someone holding a finger to their lips. It combines well with other images. The image could be used on SH instead of you're settled on the chessboard. (CS is chess for me)


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## adimare (Aug 27, 2018)

Old Tom said:


> Almost there on the 3BLD Quest! And thanks again to @adimare for the tip on re-doing scrambles. I tried that. Failed once last night, twice on re-dos this morning, and then on the fourth try, there it was, a solved cube, done completely blind. A thrill to see that pristine thing! Not counting this as my first true solve, but soon!


Great to know! And just for the record, in my books, if you closed your eyes to a scrambled cube, messed with it, and opened your eyes to a solved cube, it totally counts as a successful BLD solve


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## JohnnyReggae (Aug 27, 2018)

xyzzy said:


> For "2-look" corner orientation (which is more like 1-look 2-alg), you can use "intelligent Sune spam".
> 
> 3 misoriented: R U R' U R U2' R'; R' U' R U' R' U2 R; and the inverses of these cover all the cases with three misoriented corners. Should be fairly easy to recognise since they're similar to the 3×3×3 cases solved by the same algs. (The mnemonic I use is that the Sunes orient three adjacent corners, while the Antisunes orient two adjacent corners and one "unconnected" corner.)
> Everything else: try to twist three corners using one of the above algs so that you'll be left with three misoriented corners, then use one of the above algs again to finish CO. This always works and you can always solve CO with at most two Sunes/Antisunes.
> ...


I have been looking at the CubeSkills tutorials and have printed out the Intermediate Megaminx pdf from the website. I did try doing the S2L that way before but struggled a little with it, so continued with my beginners method of doing S2L and managed a nice sub 4 minute ao5 using the method. Decided that I need to sit down and spend the time doing it properly so started doing the S2L method that Feliks talked about. Initially I was a fair amount slower but I've stuck with it and over the weekend managed to complete an ao50. The most Megaminx solves I have ever done 

So far I've managed to drop my PB to 3:17.86. I have also started working my way through the 16 CO algs, and you're right 16 is not many and I should be able to commit them to memory reasonably quickly especially if I keep doing more solves. I'm enjoying Megaminx at the moment something I have not been able to do up to this point. Having a decent Megaminx certainly helps


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## AvGalen (Aug 27, 2018)

newtonbase said:


> Haha. Keep Quiet could be quite a good image. You could have someone holding a finger to their lips. It combines well with other images. The image could be used on SH instead of you're settled on the chessboard. (CS is chess for me)


How can anyone settle for Kings-and-Queens instead of the image of your friend shushing you in a somewhat aggressive way?
I also wouldn't count a repeated scramble that you eventually solve as your first blindfold success, but it absolutely is a milestone and gave you that gratifying "YES, I can do this!" feeling that you are going to get addicted to


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## Old Tom (Aug 27, 2018)

AvGalen said:


> How can anyone settle for Kings-and-Queens instead of the image of your friend shushing you in a somewhat aggressive way?
> I also wouldn't count a repeated scramble that you eventually solve as your first blindfold success, but it absolutely is a milestone and gave you that gratifying "YES, I can do this!" feeling that you are going to get addicted to



My friend says she loves you for that! And it's settled: KQ = Keep Quiet!


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## One Wheel (Aug 27, 2018)

Old Tom said:


> "What's a good memo for KQ"? Without a blink, she said, "Keep Quiet"!
> 
> (Aside: I settled on "Kings and Queens", visualizing a chessboard.)



Kumquat?


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## mark49152 (Aug 27, 2018)

One Wheel said:


> Kumquat?


Kiss me quick (hat).


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## h2f (Aug 27, 2018)

In Polish KQ goes tu Kukuryku - I dont know how to write it good in English so you could understand - the sound that rooster makes in the morning.  It is similiar to dogs wow-wow.


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## One Wheel (Aug 27, 2018)

h2f said:


> In Polish KQ goes tu Kukuryku - I dont know how to write it good in English so you could understand - the sound that rooster makes in the morning.  It is similiar to dogs wow-wow.



The English transliteration of a rooster crow is "cock-a-doodle-doo." If I was inventing it out of whole cloth I'd go with something more like "rrr'-r-rrrrrrr"

Edit to say that dogs are said to say "arf arf," "woof," or "bow wow"


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## h2f (Aug 27, 2018)

One Wheel said:


> Edit to say that dogs are said to say "arf arf," "woof," or "bow wow"



Ha thanks. 

One more milestone in 3bld - first mo3 sub50.


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## newtonbase (Aug 27, 2018)

The varying perceptions of animal noises in different languages is extraordinary. The multiple versions of Il Pulcino Pio that I've had to listen to prove this.


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## Old Tom (Aug 28, 2018)

newtonbase said:


> The varying perceptions of animal noises in different languages is extraordinary. The multiple versions of Il Pulcino Pio that I've had to listen to prove this.



Yes, amazing. Amuses me that we are discussing this in a Rubik's Cube forum. And that I, a deaf person, am commenting on animal noises.


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## Mike Hughey (Aug 28, 2018)

Old Tom said:


> Yes, amazing. Amuses me that we are discussing this in a Rubik's Cube forum.


What's even funnier is that it's actually relevant to a significant discussion here!


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## newtonbase (Aug 28, 2018)

There's some info on animal noises here


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## AbsoRuud (Aug 28, 2018)

Too add to the list, in Dutch, a rooster goes kukeleku and a dog goes either woef or waf. And if people want to know more, I'll gladly provide them with all the Dutch animal sounds they can stand.


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## Old Tom (Aug 28, 2018)

Did it!

Successful 3BLD on a newly-generated scramble. Old Pochmann method. Memo was solid as it usually seems to be for me. Corners were easy, just seven moves (so needed a parity correction). Edges were tough with one edge already solved but two flipped in place. Wasn't timing myself, but was extra slow and careful on the setups/un-setups, these are still not automatic for me. Probably took just under 30 minutes. I memoed edges, then corners, solved corners, then edges. Reviewed the edge memo often, including in my head after corners were done.

Thanks to everyone here for the terrific help and encouragement. This includes urging me to try it, convincing me that it was possible. Joined the group in April, finally took the plunge and committed to blind early this month.

Next? (1) Get more solid, but ignore time. (2) Get faster, though currently plan to stick with OP; at my age I will never become really fast. (3) Enter a comp and get an official solve. What are the usual time-limits for a local comp?

Worth mentioning: being deaf really is an advantage for blind solving, as it is for many other mental activities. Total focus and concentration have always been easy for me.

(It also helps being retired, and having a very understanding lady friend.)

Thanks again guys!


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## openseas (Aug 28, 2018)

Old Tom said:


> Did it!
> 
> Successful 3BLD on a newly-generated scramble. Old Pochmann method. Memo was solid as it usually seems to be for me. Corners were easy, just seven moves (so needed a parity correction). Edges were tough with one edge already solved but two flipped in place. Wasn't timing myself, but was extra slow and careful on the setups/un-setups, these are still not automatic for me. Probably took just under 30 minutes. I memoed edges, then corners, solved corners, then edges. Reviewed the edge memo often, including in my head after corners were done.
> 
> ...



Big congrats! 

Regarding time-limits, it's completely up to the organizers but most cases, 10 mins / attempt, or 15 min total (accumulative) or 10 min total (accumulative).


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## newtonbase (Aug 28, 2018)

Old Tom said:


> Did it!
> 
> Successful 3BLD on a newly-generated scramble. Old Pochmann method. Memo was solid as it usually seems to be for me. Corners were easy, just seven moves (so needed a parity correction). Edges were tough with one edge already solved but two flipped in place. Wasn't timing myself, but was extra slow and careful on the setups/un-setups, these are still not automatic for me. Probably took just under 30 minutes. I memoed edges, then corners, solved corners, then edges. Reviewed the edge memo often, including in my head after corners were done.
> 
> ...


Congratulations. Great achievement.


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## h2f (Aug 28, 2018)

newtonbase said:


> There's some info on animal noises here


Cocorico.


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## h2f (Aug 28, 2018)

@Old Tom Great! Congrats!


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## Mike Hughey (Aug 28, 2018)

@Old Tom : Congratulations! Your first solve was probably about 15 minutes faster than my first solve - my first solve was around 45 minutes. So you're off to a good start with speed!

As for competing, it's pretty certain these days that you'll probably be facing a 10 minute or faster cutoff for 3BLD, which I think is perfectly reasonable. But most competitions do usually give you 10 minutes, although in many cases if you take close to that long, it likely means you only get one chance. But it might be worth talking to competition organizers in your area (email them, or talk to them at the next competition you go to, whether or not you get to compete in BLD that day), and mention your quest to become one of the oldest BLD solvers ever (oldest ever in North America, probably - second oldest worldwide). There's a good chance they might stretch the time limits for BLD at the next competition they set up in your area just so they can have the honor of having you get a successful solve there! I wouldn't expect them to stretch the 10 minutes - you'll need to get fast enough to solve it in 10 minutes if you want an official solve. But they might very well do something like allow a 10 minute time limit per solve, but still allow three attempts. If not too many slow people in your area try for 3BLD, it's not necessarily all that draining on a competition to have one station in the corner still finishing up a 3BLD solver while the next event is going on at all the other stations. And the nice thing with you is: they don't have to worry about keeping the room quiet while you finish!  Normally they tend to worry about that with most competitors.


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## pglewis (Aug 28, 2018)

Big congrats @Old Tom! The first success is by far the hardest one to get.


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## adimare (Aug 28, 2018)

@Old Tom Congratulations!!!


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## Old Tom (Aug 28, 2018)

Mike Hughey said:


> @Old Tom : Congratulations! Your first solve was probably about 15 minutes faster than my first solve - my first solve was around 45 minutes. So you're off to a good start with speed!
> 
> As for competing, it's pretty certain these days that you'll probably be facing a 10 minute or faster cutoff for 3BLD, which I think is perfectly reasonable. But most competitions do usually give you 10 minutes, although in many cases if you take close to that long, it likely means you only get one chance. But it might be worth talking to competition organizers in your area (email them, or talk to them at the next competition you go to, whether or not you get to compete in BLD that day), and mention your quest to become one of the oldest BLD solvers ever (oldest ever in North America, probably - second oldest worldwide). There's a good chance they might stretch the time limits for BLD at the next competition they set up in your area just so they can have the honor of having you get a successful solve there! I wouldn't expect them to stretch the 10 minutes - you'll need to get fast enough to solve it in 10 minutes if you want an official solve. But they might very well do something like allow a 10 minute time limit per solve, but still allow three attempts. If not too many slow people in your area try for 3BLD, it's not necessarily all that draining on a competition to have one station in the corner still finishing up a 3BLD solver while the next event is going on at all the other stations. And the nice thing with you is: they don't have to worry about keeping the room quiet while you finish!  Normally they tend to worry about that with most competitors.


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## SpartanSailor (Aug 28, 2018)

Old Tom said:


> Did it!
> 
> Successful 3BLD on a newly-generated scramble. Old Pochmann method. Memo was solid as it usually seems to be for me. Corners were easy, just seven moves (so needed a parity correction). Edges were tough with one edge already solved but two flipped in place. Wasn't timing myself, but was extra slow and careful on the setups/un-setups, these are still not automatic for me. Probably took just under 30 minutes. I memoed edges, then corners, solved corners, then edges. Reviewed the edge memo often, including in my head after corners were done.
> 
> ...


That’s fantastic! Congratulations!


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## SpartanSailor (Aug 28, 2018)

@Old Tom our local comps are pretty consistent with 10 minutes cummalative for all 3 attempts. If you nail it on your first in 9:59... you’re good. My first comp was further south by happenstance, in South Carolina, while visiting friends and family. They allowed 10 minutes per attempt.

It really comes down to time management and how much time they can set aside for the event. I’ve seen that they offer 60 minutes for 4BLD and 5BLD and sometimes I see a “combined 60 mins” for all 4 or 5BLD attempts.

You might be able to convince Corey to give you 60 mins on a 3BLD attempt during a comp where they do 4BLD and 5BLD. I realize they need to be fair, but it never hurts to ask. 

Although, take your time and get comfortable with it. You will be amazed how quickly you can take time off your 3BLD times. I couldn’t even begin to guess how long my first successful attempt took...


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## SpartanSailor (Aug 28, 2018)

Mike Hughey said:


> @Old Tom : Congratulations! Your first solve was probably about 15 minutes faster than my first solve - my first solve was around 45 minutes. So you're off to a good start with speed!
> 
> As for competing, it's pretty certain these days that you'll probably be facing a 10 minute or faster cutoff for 3BLD, which I think is perfectly reasonable. But most competitions do usually give you 10 minutes, although in many cases if you take close to that long, it likely means you only get one chance. But it might be worth talking to competition organizers in your area (email them, or talk to them at the next competition you go to, whether or not you get to compete in BLD that day), and mention your quest to become one of the oldest BLD solvers ever (oldest ever in North America, probably - second oldest worldwide). There's a good chance they might stretch the time limits for BLD at the next competition they set up in your area just so they can have the honor of having you get a successful solve there! I wouldn't expect them to stretch the 10 minutes - you'll need to get fast enough to solve it in 10 minutes if you want an official solve. But they might very well do something like allow a 10 minute time limit per solve, but still allow three attempts. If not too many slow people in your area try for 3BLD, it's not necessarily all that draining on a competition to have one station in the corner still finishing up a 3BLD solver while the next event is going on at all the other stations. And the nice thing with you is: they don't have to worry about keeping the room quiet while you finish!  Normally they tend to worry about that with most competitors.


You know... @Old Tom One issue is trying to keep the room quiet long enough for all the competitors to finish. However, as you have said a few times, that’s not an issue for you. So as long as they don’t mind providing the judge (I know someone that would volunteer for that assignment—hint: it’s me!), they may be willing to do 3 attempts at 10 minutes each for you.

I know a few others that would appreciate a 10 min limit PER attempt! Heck... even I would take advantage of that to get a mean of 3! Maybe we can organize a comp with fewer events and longer time limits... we could have 3x3, 3BLD with 10min/attempt, and 10 minute limits (shorter cutoffs, but longer limits) for 555, 666, and 777! No other events.


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## Old Tom (Aug 29, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> You know... @Old Tom One issue is trying to keep the room quiet long enough for all the competitors to finish. However, as you have said a few times, that’s not an issue for you. So as long as they don’t mind providing the judge (I know someone that would volunteer for that assignment—hint: it’s me!), they may be willing to do 3 attempts at 10 minutes each for you.
> 
> I know a few others that would appreciate a 10 min limit PER attempt! Heck... even I would take advantage of that to get a mean of 3! Maybe we can organize a comp with fewer events and longer time limits... we could have 3x3, 3BLD with 10min/attempt, and 10 minute limits (shorter cutoffs, but longer limits) for 555, 666, and 777! No other events.



I am mulling on all of this advice. But mainly, it is on me. Need to get consistent, and faster. I am as obsessive as any of you, so will likely practice every day. But I may plateau, or even regress, I am 80 after all.

Meanwhile, I am thinking of early 2019 for a comp, eastern coast very much preferred. I am good at negotiating with directors, if they do email, so we will see.

Again, thanks to you all, but special thanks to @SpartanSailor, who helped me at my first comp this July, and can sign perhaps even better than I can.


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## mark49152 (Aug 29, 2018)

Congrats @Old Tom! You'll be fitting three attempts in that 10 minutes time limit before you know it


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## AvGalen (Aug 29, 2018)

mark49152 said:


> Congrats @Old Tom! You'll be fitting three attempts in that 10 minutes time limit before you know it


Absolutely terrific that you got your first solve so soon after doing "re-scrambles". Getting below 10 minutes for 1 solve should indeed become your target and it will help you to set separate targets depending on your split, for example "3 minute memo for edges, 1 minute memo for corners, 2 minute execution for corners, 4 minute execution for edges". Although I like Mark49152's optimism, doing 3 solves in 10 minutes is absolutely not something that is easily reached and does require quick memo, good execution and that is something that will definitely not happen "before you know it"


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## mark49152 (Aug 29, 2018)

AvGalen said:


> Although I like Mark49152's optimism, doing 3 solves in 10 minutes is absolutely not something that is easily reached and does require quick memo, good execution and that is something that will definitely not happen "before you know it"


That was just light-hearted, positive encouragement. I don't mean to diminish it as a goal, but wouldn't want to portray it as unrealistic or out of reach, either. It's great to see folks making progress - and aim high, that's what I say .


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## Old Tom (Aug 29, 2018)

mark49152 said:


> That was just light-hearted, positive encouragement. I don't mean to diminish it as a goal, but wouldn't want to portray it as unrealistic or out of reach, either. It's great to see folks making progress - and aim high, that's what I say .



I did take Mark's comment in the spirit that it was made. Ten minutes for just one solve is my goal, and this will not be particularly easy for me. OP requires about 20 individual sticker placements, each of the algs is about 15 moves, add an average of 3 more for setups plus unsetups, that gives 360 moves! My old fingers can only manage 2 mps, 3 on a good day. So that's 2 or 3 minutes right there, with no hesitations at all, for the execution. I think I should allow myself 5 or even 6 miniutes for execution. Need to improve setups dramatically, but that should come with practice.

I have been doing memo leisurely, but it is fun, and I think I can get good at it, especially now that the letter locations are automatic (that happened recently). Can make up a lot of time there, provided I get better/faster at locating available locations for new cycles, this is currently a pain and a drag, often need to re-trace for that.

Will definitely record my splits. And definitely work hard at all this.


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## chtiger (Aug 29, 2018)

Old Tom said:


> (3) Enter a comp and get an official solve. What are the usual time-limits for a local comp?


The last comp I went to, which was in the Charlotte area so maybe not too far depending on where in Virginia you are, had a 70 minute cumulative limit for 3BLD and 4BLD together. You'd have time for two attempts even now, or three attempts by the time the next comp comes around, if the events/limits stay the same. That's not typical though, so I'd agree that sub 10 minute is a good goal for now. That almost always gets you at least one attempt. Most common around this area is probably either 15 minute cumulative or 20 minute cumulative. The lowest limit for a comp I've attended was 6 minutes per attempt.


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## newtonbase (Aug 29, 2018)

Anyone off to Melbourne for WC 2019?


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## mark49152 (Aug 29, 2018)

newtonbase said:


> Anyone off to Melbourne for WC 2019?


That one will take a lot of points!


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## openseas (Aug 29, 2018)

newtonbase said:


> Anyone off to Melbourne for WC 2019?



I want!


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## Old Tom (Aug 29, 2018)

chtiger said:


> The last comp I went to, which was in the Charlotte area so maybe not too far depending on where in Virginia you are, had a 70 minute cumulative limit for 3BLD and 4BLD together. You'd have time for two attempts even now, or three attempts by the time the next comp comes around, if the events/limits stay the same. That's not typical though, so I'd agree that sub 10 minute is a good goal for now. That almost always gets you at least one attempt. Most common around this area is probably either 15 minute cumulative or 20 minute cumulative. The lowest limit for a comp I've attended was 6 minutes per attempt.



Thx. Those cumulative time limits are very appealing, though Charlotte is a 5 1/2 hr drive for me, would need a special reason (such as those limits!) to venture that far. Four hours is the most I've ever driven for the bridge tourneys I play in. I will hunt around for other, closer cumulative limits.


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## Old Tom (Aug 30, 2018)

AvGalen said:


> Absolutely terrific that you got your first solve so soon after doing "re-scrambles". Getting below 10 minutes for 1 solve should indeed become your target and it will help you to set separate targets depending on your split, for example "3 minute memo for edges, 1 minute memo for corners, 2 minute execution for corners, 4 minute execution for edges". Although I like Mark49152's optimism, doing 3 solves in 10 minutes is absolutely not something that is easily reached and does require quick memo, good execution and that is something that will definitely not happen "before you know it"



Those four target times seem doable! Will work towards them.


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## SpartanSailor (Aug 30, 2018)

newtonbase said:


> Anyone off to Melbourne for WC 2019?


I’d love to, but I have a feeling that’s not in the cards... (or the cubes, as the case may be)


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## mafergut (Aug 30, 2018)

newtonbase said:


> Anyone off to Melbourne for WC 2019?


No way i can pull that one out. That's in the other side of the globe for me, hahaha


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## mark49152 (Aug 31, 2018)

Hey @newtonbase - how is the 4BLD coming along?


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## SpartanSailor (Aug 31, 2018)

0/2 on the MBLD this week. When I did it at the more recent comp, I attempted 3 to get the extra 10 minutes... only took 18+ minutes back then to get 1/3 (damn parity! Forgot to apply that alg). Today was definitely a mix of execution errors and memo failures. BUT... i felt like I actually had a decent memo and did 11:18 to yeild 0/2. The upside is that I wont be chasing time my next MBLD attempt. So, I’ll only use 2 cubes unless I actually get good at MBLD and feel like I can actually accomplish more successfully. But I won’t be submitting excess cubes just to get extra time.


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## h2f (Aug 31, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> i felt like I actually had a decent memo and did 11:18 to yeild 0/2



If I may suggest... Push your memo and try few cubes in home - 4 or 6. After few attempts you will see that 2 cubes seem much much easier.


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## pglewis (Aug 31, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> 0/2 on the MBLD this week. When I did it at the more recent comp, I attempted 3 to get the extra 10 minutes... only took 18+ minutes back then to get 1/3 (damn parity! Forgot to apply that alg). Today was definitely a mix of execution errors and memo failures. BUT... i felt like I actually had a decent memo and did 11:18 to yeild 0/2. The upside is that I wont be chasing time my next MBLD attempt. So, I’ll only use 2 cubes unless I actually get good at MBLD and feel like I can actually accomplish more successfully. But I won’t be submitting excess cubes just to get extra time.



I feel like I shouldn't suggest this because you'll immediately surpass me yet again ... but you're fine on time, I'd up the ante to 3 or 4 at least, even though you haven't achieved an N/N below that yet. I got to 7 before I hit a time crunch at all.


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## SpartanSailor (Aug 31, 2018)

h2f said:


> If I may suggest... Push your memo and try few cubes in home - 4 or 6. After few attempts you will see that 2 cubes seems much much easier.


Fair enough... I am new to BLD solving (meaning I started back in Jan). I like to try a couple MBLD cubes just for “fun” and actually did get one success. The amount of information necessary isn’t beyond my mental capacity...but still presents a challenge. Whereas I’m all about trying to get more cubes, MBLD is not my end goal. rather, it’s more a consequence of other endeavors. I’m hoping to undertake 4BLD over throughout the Fall. Although I have a lot going on personally (returning to school to learn a new profession—full time enrolled, while ALSO full time working... husband and father (those last two are obviously the most important)). I’m not sure how much time I’ll be able to apply to learning 4BLD. 

I have the concept down and notes about how to do all the different elements (corners, centers, wings). So, if getting 2-4 successful cubes happens for MBLD as a side-product, great. But, I certainly do not have the time to commit to going after a larger number. I haven’t invested any effort to using “rooms” or whatnot. Instead, I just memo straight through. For 4BLD, I may still be able to gain success with just straight memo, but if I need to learn a new “skill” along the way, it’ll have to wait until I have time to dedicate to it. 

I realise you were not expected a dissertation response... just felt like sharing. I’m sure I will attempt 3 and/or 4 cubes in the not to distant future.


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## SpartanSailor (Aug 31, 2018)

pglewis said:


> I feel like I shouldn't suggest this because you'll immediately surpass me yet again ... but you're fine on time, I'd up the ante to 3 or 4 at least, even though you haven't achieved an N/N below that yet. I got to 7 before I hit a time crunch at all.


I don’t think I’ll surpass you in MBLD... you have put a decent effort into letter pairs and rooms... I just take it as a sting of letters and go! My method works for me and has a LOT of room to provide improvement for 3BLD, but falls short when the memo required becomes considerably larger. There’s a trade-off... one that involves time that I don’t have to spare at present. Nevertheless... I don’t see surpassing you at all.


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## pglewis (Aug 31, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> I don’t think I’ll surpass you in MBLD... you have put a decent effort into letter pairs and rooms... I just take it as a sting of letters and go! My method works for me and has a LOT of room to provide improvement for 3BLD, but falls short when the memo required becomes considerably larger. There’s a trade-off... one that involves time that I don’t have to spare at present. Nevertheless... I don’t see surpassing you at all.



Yeah, granted, I kinda felt like I'd have more interest in mbld in the long term than 3bld so my focus has been more that direction ever since my first success... definitely an emphasis on retention more than speed. 

The way I use rooms is dirt simple though, I don't specifically track any pieces flipped/twisted in place, so each location just has two spots, one for edge memo and one for corner memo. Just need to assign an order that you visit the rooms. Heck, one of my "rooms" is the sky with corners on the sun and edges on the moon, and I'll often use those for 3bld just because it tends to help me remember that elusive first pair if I associate it with a location.


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## SpartanSailor (Aug 31, 2018)

For me, remembering the FIRST pair is the hardest. Whether it’s for edges, corners or another cube. I have no false delusions of taking 3BLD to a world class or even national level. But I would like to be relatively solid at sub-2 min someday. As to MBLD.... if I can get a 2/2 in comp in 19:59 I’ll be good.


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## openseas (Aug 31, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> For me, remembering the FIRST pair is the hardest. Whether it’s for edges, corners or another cube. I have no false delusions of taking 3BLD to a world class or even national level. But I would like to be relatively solid at sub-2 min someday. As to MBLD.... if I can get a 2/2 in comp in 19:59 I’ll be good.



You don't need any rooms (or loci) for 2MBLD but it will be a good practice to start using the concept. Then, you won't forget the first pairs.


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## Old Tom (Aug 31, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> For me, remembering the FIRST pair is the hardest. Whether it’s for edges, corners or another cube. I have no false delusions of taking 3BLD to a world class or even national level. But I would like to be relatively solid at sub-2 min someday. As to MBLD.... if I can get a 2/2 in comp in 19:59 I’ll be good.



Here's the newbie butting in. The first pair is hardest for me. Where did I start? Oh, yes, then it goes smoothly.


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## SpartanSailor (Aug 31, 2018)

Newbie or 8 months later... still the same for me!


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## mark49152 (Sep 1, 2018)

Old Tom said:


> Here's the newbie butting in. The first pair is hardest for me. Where did I start? Oh, yes, then it goes smoothly.


This is why I find rooms useful even for 3BLD. Visualising in a room kind of acts like a "keystone", as Noah Arthurs calls it.


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## h2f (Sep 1, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> I realise you were not expected a dissertation response... just felt like sharing. I’m sure I will attempt 3 and/or 4 cubes in the not to distant future.



 Doing mbld also helps in 3bld. All blinds are connected. I think everyone of us struggle for a time to make a practice sessions.


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## newtonbase (Sep 2, 2018)

mark49152 said:


> Hey @newtonbase - how is the 4BLD coming along?


It's not happening at all. An office move meant I lost my practice space. We are getting a new canteen area soon so if that's not too busy I might get started again. Plus, I've lost my good 5x5 which hampers 5BLD.


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## Lid (Sep 2, 2018)

Started playing around with Roux 2-3 weeks ago, and got my first sub25 avg12 today: 24.26



Spoiler: Time/Scambles List



1. 25.51 F' L2 D2 U2 B' U2 F' R2 D2 F' R2 L' F D' R' B' U2 F U' L2 D2 
2. 22.39 L2 D F2 L2 B2 D F2 D L2 D' R2 F' L' R' B' L2 R U2 F U R' 
3. 22.42 F' B2 R U2 B2 L2 U2 B2 R B2 U2 L' U' R B' R2 U2 R' U R 
4. (45.53) L' D L2 U F2 R2 B2 L2 U L2 B2 L' U' L' F' R' U2 B2 F2 U B' 
5. 21.52 L B' R' B' U2 R' D F U' R' F2 R2 U R2 L2 F2 R2 L2 D2 B2 U' 
6. 25.46 R F2 D2 R' B2 D2 L F2 U2 R' F2 U R2 B' L D' B' F' U R' 
7. 25.46 D' L2 F2 R2 D2 R2 U B2 D2 L' F' U B' R' B2 R2 U B2 D2 F2 
8. (20.16) F U2 R2 B2 D' F2 L2 D R2 F2 U' B2 L' U F' L D L U L D' 
9. 25.07 L2 B L2 R2 B2 F' D2 B' F2 U2 L' F' L2 D B R D' U B R2 
10. 24.39 R D' B2 R2 D' U' B2 U' R2 U R D U B F2 R' D2 U2 L2 
11. 25.77 L2 D F2 U B2 L2 F2 U' F2 D2 R D F' D B U' R' D' U2 F2 
12. 24.57 L U B R L F2 D L' D L2 B2 U2 L2 D2 F L2 F' U2 F2


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## SpartanSailor (Sep 2, 2018)

Had another comp today at the University of Maryland, Slow and Steady....results:


3x3–even though I still struggle with this in comp, today was at least not a melt down. Had a few different mistakes, but didn’t let it rattle me. Managed to shave .09 off my Official Single... so although that’s still not a sub-20 (20.42 now) it’s still a PB so can complain too hard. 

2x2–finally! I haven’t really improved on this in several months but have been annoyed that I couldn’t get a sub-7s Ao5 in comp. I’d say I’m globally a low to mid 6 and can get 5s for average pretty regular. So it really bothered me having a 7.02 Official. So, today, I managed to avoid chocking and landed a 6.09. 

4x4–my goal was a sub1:20 average. I would have done it too... but my first solve I was thrilled to get a good start with 1:18... only to realise I had a PLL parity.... dnf. Followed that that 1:15, 1:18, 1:35 and 1:15. That 1:35 was the disaster I would have loved to throw away. Even though that’s how it went down, I felt good knowing I did generally what I wanted. I’ll get it next time. 

Pyra—this was just comical. My unwillingness to actually learn or practice, results is a 12 and a 29. Lol. But, I walked out of there with a PB Ao5 for Pyra too. 

So not a bad day. Had a good time.


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## mark49152 (Sep 2, 2018)

newtonbase said:


> It's not happening at all. An office move meant I lost my practice space. We are getting a new canteen area soon so if that's not too busy I might get started again. Plus, I've lost my good 5x5 which hampers 5BLD.


Ah well. Hope you find a solution soon. Do you have goals for UKC?


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## Old Tom (Sep 3, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> Had another comp today at the University of Maryland, Slow and Steady....results:
> 
> 
> 3x3–even though I still struggle with this in comp, today was at least not a melt down. Had a few different mistakes, but didn’t let it rattle me. Managed to shave .09 off my Official Single... so although that’s still not a sub-20 (20.42 now) it’s still a PB so can complain too hard.
> ...



Glad you go in to have fun. And usually manage to. Congrats on the new 3x3 PB, though I know what you really want there!


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## newtonbase (Sep 3, 2018)

mark49152 said:


> Do you have goals for UKC?


I did want 4BLD and 5BLD success plus a 3BLD PB but we'll see if I can get any practice in. Currently I'll settle for not missing registration. 

Yourself? 20 points MBLD?


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## mark49152 (Sep 3, 2018)

newtonbase said:


> Yourself? 20 points MBLD?


(1) Get there, and (2) any sort of podium. Will be difficult this year though - UK BLD has got way more competitive and I've had too little practice time and have pretty much stagnated.


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## AvGalen (Sep 3, 2018)

h2f said:


> If I may suggest... Push your memo and try few cubes in home - 4 or 6. After few attempts you will see that 2 cubes seem much much easier.


Accidentaly I did just that in 2007, resulting in getting a 2/2 for multiblind (in 26 minutes, old rules, old NR) before actually doing a successful single


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## Selkie (Sep 3, 2018)

You still making Stratford-upon-Avon Open in just over a couple of weeks @mark49152 ? Be good to catch up. Think with @Shaky Hands there is only three oldies in attendance.

Some goals for that comp as I have been practicing quite a bit:-
2x2: Sub 6 avg
3x3: Sub 15 avg (Yes the same goal comp after comp!!)
4x4: Sub 1:00 avg
5x5: Sub 1:45 avg
3BLD: Success
Megaminx: Sub 2:00 avg (Qualify for UKC)
No bigger cubes at that comp!


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## AvGalen (Sep 3, 2018)

Selkie said:


> You still making Stratford-upon-Avon Open in just over a couple of weeks @mark49152 ? Be good to catch up. Think with @Shaky Hands there is only three oldies in attendance.
> 
> Some goals for that comp as I have been practicing quite a bit:-
> 2x2: Sub 6 avg
> ...


This is almost as if I am reading my own goals except for the 3x3x3/megaminx where my goals are more modest. Hopefully we will meet at a live-competition someday so we can have a direct competition

Edit: We have 2 shared competitions but they were a long time ago:
https://www.worldcubeassociation.org/competitions/UKOpen2011/results/all#e333
You beat me on Magic
https://www.worldcubeassociation.org/competitions/RapidashOpen2012/results/all#e333
You beat me on Magic (again) and I didn't do 7x7x7


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## mark49152 (Sep 3, 2018)

Selkie said:


> You still making Stratford-upon-Avon Open in just over a couple of weeks @mark49152 ? Be good to catch up. Think with @Shaky Hands there is only three oldies in attendance.


Yeah I'm registered mate. Will do my best to make it but will prob be there only the Saturday. I'd like to advance my PBs a little in 4/5BLD of course, but I've not done much practice so no serious goals.


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## openseas (Sep 3, 2018)

Went to a small comp last Sat (Oklahoma).
38 competitors total but couple of them didn't show up, one of the smallest comp I've ever been to.

3BLD: one twist (probably traced wrong), 1:48, one reverse comm (edge), 2nd place, just because nobody in Oklahoma was into BLD. And as usual, my son got the 1st with another 19s. Considering he didn't practice at all after the school start + 8am in the morning + Zach genned scrambles (one of the worst known BLD scramble genner , surprised that he even got another sub 20. Anyway, another happy father-son podium 

333: Scrambles were so good, 2,3,4 attempts were 3~4 move cross. Not the best time but after the 4th, realized I could break my long standing PB average, then, choked the last attempt, missed the 2nd round by one. But, without any practice, no complaints.

Recently, started 4BLD execution practice - just sighted solve. started off high 4 min, now down to mid 3 min. Variations are mostly due to incorrect comms. Not a great speed, a lot to optimize.


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## SpartanSailor (Sep 3, 2018)

openseas said:


> Went to a small comp last Sat (Oklahoma).
> 38 competitors total but couple of them didn't show up, one of the smallest comp I've ever been to.
> 
> 3BLD: one twist (probably traced wrong), 1:48, one reverse comm (edge), 2nd place, just because nobody in Oklahoma was into BLD. And as usual, my son got the 1st with another 19s. Considering he didn't practice at all after the school start + 8am in the morning + Zach genned scrambles (one of the worst known BLD scramble genner , surprised that he even got another sub 20. Anyway, another happy father-son podium
> ...


I was interested in that OKC comp, but there’s no way I’d have been able to swing it. I was wondering how it was... sounds like they made the most of a small cubing community. 

I don’t have any upcoming comps at this point. I think in the next couple months or so, while I have other things going on, I’ll spend some time on my BLD techinique. Not necessarily to get fast (yet), rather to develop the techiniques needed so that I CAN go faster. Also, I want to spend some time working sighted 4BLD practice too. I would like to have all those set-ups and special algs down pretty good by the end of the year.


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## Old Tom (Sep 4, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> I was interested in that OKC comp, but there’s no way I’d have been able to swing it. I was wondering how it was... sounds like they made the most of a small cubing community.
> 
> I don’t have any upcoming comps at this point. I think in the next couple months or so, while I have other things going on, I’ll spend some time on my BLD techinique. Not necessarily to get fast (yet), rather to develop the techiniques needed so that I CAN go faster. Also, I want to spend some time working sighted 4BLD practice too. I would like to have all those set-ups and special algs down pretty good by the end of the year.



I had a really stupid practice session today. Got a complete edge and corner memo down solid. Started execution, was going well, then realized I was doing an edge memo for a corner execution. Arghh!


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## pglewis (Sep 4, 2018)

I might be moving the plateau again at last. Crushed my Ao5 with a 19.32. That would indeed be my first sub 20 Ao5. 



Spoiler: Times



Time List:
1. 18.61 B U2 B D' L U' L' B' U L' U2 F2 U2 R' D2 F2 R F2 L2
2. 22.36 F' D2 B2 D2 R2 B2 F R2 F R2 D2 U' B' L2 U2 F D B' L U
3. 20.45 D2 F2 U2 R2 U2 R U2 F2 L2 D2 B2 U L' B F2 D' B2 F' U'
4. 18.90 R' B L U' L U2 L2 B D' R2 F U2 B' D2 R2 B' L2 U2 F' L2
5. 17.77 U L B2 R U' R2 D R' F U' F' U2 L2 F2 R2 B R2 L2 B' U2


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## SpartanSailor (Sep 4, 2018)

pglewis said:


> I might be moving the plateau again at last. Crushed my Ao5 with a 19.32. That would indeed be my first sub 20 Ao5.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Nicely done!!


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## Selkie (Sep 4, 2018)

@mark49152 

Be great to catch up, whatever results we get or don't buddy. Maybe we will get the opportunity of sampling another good curry at a competition soon (UKC?). 

@AvGalen 

I remember our two mutual comps well. You taught me AvG and I still solve a few of that method casually now and then.

I would very much hope we will cross paths again very soon.

----

To the wider thread regulars, you may or may not have found out that I was honored to be elected to the Board of Directors of the WCA over the weekend. This is such a great honor and privilege for me and a role I will not be taking lightly.

With the majority of my own personal cubing motivation coming from the older cubing community - my peers, I am eager to support ways in which the WCA can recognise progress and attainment other than those acclaimed titles of NR, CR and WR. This applies to us grey haired but also to other demographics. Official age based ranking is something that I will be supporting.

If you have any thoughts or ideas to share with me, please do, I'd be delighted to hear and discuss them.

All this and I will try and slack less on the forum!


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## SpartanSailor (Sep 4, 2018)

Selkie said:


> @mark49152
> 
> Be great to catch up, whatever results we get or don't buddy. Maybe we will get the opportunity of sampling another good curry at a competition soon (UKC?).
> 
> ...


That’s fantastic! Congratulations.


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## mark49152 (Sep 4, 2018)

Selkie said:


> @mark49152
> 
> Be great to catch up, whatever results we get or don't buddy. Maybe we will get the opportunity of sampling another good curry at a competition soon (UKC?).


If you're at Stratford both days and up for a curry there, I'll make a special effort to stay over. It would be great to catch up.

Regarding WCA ideas, it would be nice to see the over 40 ranking become official, but the model we have today where WCA results data can be exported for others to do as they like with is a powerful one. At least if the WCA offered an opt-in on user profiles to include birth year in the exported data, the ranking (and others) could be offered more easily by third party sites wike WCADB.net. There are other rankings like Kinchranks offered that way and I recognise the WCA can't add every good idea to their own results presentation.

Either way, it would be nice to see more recognition and motivation for older cubers to compete though. We're in such a minority!


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## Selkie (Sep 4, 2018)

@mark49152 Unfortunately Mark though I will be staying in Stratford on the Friday and Saturday nights I am bringing the family with me so they can enjoy the heritage of the town. We have a cottage through AirBnB for the weekend so I will be spending the evenings with them. UKC is a different matter however as I will be attending on my own. You stopping over in Stevenage?

Points duly noted with regards over 40s rankings. Once I am up to speed in the role I will give this some thought. Would be great to get something in place moving forward.


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## mark49152 (Sep 4, 2018)

@Selkie - Yes I'll be staying in Stevenage for both Friday and Saturday nights. Or at least that's the plan


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## Selkie (Sep 4, 2018)

@mark49152 - Sounds like a plan in inception sir. Mind you that curry in High Wycombe will take some beating! Registration for UKC opens this evening, will be interesting to see which grey haired brethren register. Could have a quite a few attendees to teh curry club! 

@SpartanSailor - Thank you


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## CLL Smooth (Sep 4, 2018)

I decided to register for my first comp in over two years. Shortly after I dislocated my thumb on my left hand.
Oops, I guess it’s only been one year now that I look. Long year...


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## pglewis (Sep 4, 2018)

pglewis said:


> I might be moving the plateau again at last. Crushed my Ao5 with a 19.32. That would indeed be my first sub 20 Ao5.



And in the "shoulda-coulda" category, I also had an untimed one with smooth (for me) F2L, friendly OLL, and a PLL skip that I guess would have clocked-in somewhere in the 14s.


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## newtonbase (Sep 4, 2018)

Selkie said:


> Registration for UKC opens this evening, will be interesting to see which grey haired brethren register.


Obviously I'm silver blond not grey but I'll be there. 30 mins until registration.


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## mark49152 (Sep 4, 2018)

Registered!


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## openseas (Sep 4, 2018)

Nobody celebrated our "1,000" page mark, yet!!!


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## bubbagrub (Sep 4, 2018)

Registered... a family of four...  

And yay -- 1000 pages! Amazing...


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## newtonbase (Sep 4, 2018)

openseas said:


> Nobody celebrated our "1,000" page mark, yet!!!


Pretty impressive. 

I'm registered.


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## mark49152 (Sep 4, 2018)

12 more posts til #20,000 ...


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## SpartanSailor (Sep 4, 2018)

I was just headed this way to see if we hit page 1000... looks like it!

Regarding the WCA over 40 category... I’m obviously biased, but I do think that will draw some more favourable participation. Much like in running, the “Masters” category is usually over 40s, but they have age groups for a reason. With cubing, I’m not sure the same age issues apply, but certainly there are elements which do apply regarding speed. If nothing else, it would generate some additional interest. Locally, and I assume this is widely true but recognize I should not assume, the vast majority of participants are under driving age. Meaning, parents are there. I see them all sitting around... many of whom twist and play with cubes casually and comment that they’re never going to be as fast as these “kids”. But I would bet they would get involved if there was a Master’s category or over 40, or whatever it’s called. 

If privacy of information is an issue, i think that’s easily managed... they have LOTS of information about us each time we register for an event... such as our home, billing addresss, CC info, etc... clearly adding the one piece of info that I’m over 40 isn’t placing me at any greater risk than I already am simply by having a WCA account. FWIW....

Best of luck @Selkie at your new WCA position and if you need anything from the members at large, you know where to find us old guys! LOL


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## openseas (Sep 4, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> I was just headed this way to see if we hit page 1000... looks like it!
> 
> Regarding the WCA over 40 category... I’m obviously biased, but I do think that will draw some more favourable participation. Much like in running, the “Masters” category is usually over 40s, but they have age groups for a reason. With cubing, I’m not sure the same age issues apply, but certainly there are elements which do apply regarding speed. If nothing else, it would generate some additional interest. Locally, and I assume this is widely true but recognize I should not assume, the vast majority of participants are under driving age. Meaning, parents are there. I see them all sitting around... many of whom twist and play with cubes casually and comment that they’re never going to be as fast as these “kids”. But I would bet they would get involved if there was a Master’s category or over 40, or whatever it’s called.
> 
> ...



@SpartanSailor / I do agree to your points, hey, I'm one of those examples!

BTW, just to be precise, all the information you mentioned are not exposed to the public. Ages (birth information) are not included in the public information (used to be but not any more). What Christ/Mark is proposing is that a certain level of exposure not the whole. Like your birth *year* so that we can tell whether some people are old enough (and *slow enough*) to join this group.


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## SpartanSailor (Sep 4, 2018)

I’m one of those examples too! 

Thank you for the clarification, although I don’t think that it is ultimately necessary to share my birth year. It’s sufficient to use that “behind the scenes” info to indicate which members belong to which competitive categories—were there to be different categories. 

To further illustrate the point, I see many of the local female cubers claiming to have the WR Female single or average for some event... but that’s not a real title. You currently either are the WR holder or not without regard to any differentiation. I present this to suggest that it’s not just us “old guys” that want to have a bragging point or two...

As another example: I see that @mark49152 is a forum “SUPER MODERATOR”. Also, @newtonbase is a “PREMIUM MEMBER”. Honestly, I have no idea what the criteria are, but I could if I just searched the forum for a bit. Likewise, on my WCA profile it could indicate “MASTERS” and “MALE” or “FEMALE” or “GRANDMASTER” or.... whatever the categories are. Then for MASTERS say, it’s competitive cubers whose ages are between 40 and 59. GRANDMASTERS are competitive cubers who are 60 and over. That’s sufficient. No one needs to know that I’m 45 or 57. And it’s coded to my profile so really doesn’t expose my personal info. And let’s face it, I could be the slowest Cuber on the planet and it would sound cool to tell people I’m in the MASTERS CLASS. HAHAHAHAHAHAHA... but i bet if I did, they would actually relate since that is a commonly used competitive classification widely across genres of competition. 

Just a thought. 

I’m not trying to create a solution here in a single thought, but I am trying to flesh out the idea so that it makes sense and could potentially be doable. So.... feel free to poke holes in my way of thinking.


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## mark49152 (Sep 4, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> GRANDMASTERS are competitive cubers who are 60 and over. That’s sufficient.


Birth year is needed to determine whether each result was achieved when you were 60 or 59, etc.


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## SpartanSailor (Sep 4, 2018)

mark49152 said:


> Birth year is needed to determine whether each result was achieved when you were 60 or 59, etc.


True, but you don’t have to share it. That information can be kept away from the public and only used “behind the scenes” to determine appropriate category. 

Correct me if I’m wrong, and I probably am... didn’t I need to input my birthday when I registered my WCA account? If so, they already have that information. If I’m wrong, then that’s probably an easy fix on the programming side of the house.


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## Mike Hughey (Sep 4, 2018)

This sort of thing has already been discussed before during previous discussions. One concern that people have with using actual ages is that a person's age can be somewhat deduced if they attend enough competitions, by seeing when they switch classes.


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## Old Tom (Sep 5, 2018)

I have, obviously to those of you who know that I am 80, read all these comments regarding age-categories with interest. I think it would be reasonable to have age-based rankings, but the problem then becomes, how many categories, and where are the cut-offs? In golf, for example, it is 50. From what I see in the cubing community, 40 would be fine for a Seniors Group. I am NOT advocating for an 80+, just me and Hideaki (but I have him in my sights).

Worth mentioning, just from my one-person perspective: we really do slow down with age, inexorably. This includes our hands and fingers; our nerve impulses just get slower. I am practicing finger tricks now, but can barely reach two HMs per second. It is the same as with any other physical activity. Some of us, myself included, have some actual physical injuries, surgeries, conditions etc. that affect our manual dexterity, but even without all this, we do get slower. And what about our minds? Shhh!

So I'm in favor of WCA taking a look at this.


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## SpartanSailor (Sep 5, 2018)

Mike Hughey said:


> This sort of thing has already been discussed before during previous discussions. One concern that people have with using actual ages is that a person's age can be somewhat deduced if they attend enough competitions, by seeing when they switch classes.


Very true. I’m not sure how to avoid that directly. Forgive my ignorance, is that a widely held concern? I ask because it seems in any other sport, they use age categories with 5 year increments and if I wanted to know someone’s age... well, it’s actually published on the results. What is the underlying resistance to having one’s age made pseudo public? I’m not trying to be antagonistic, trying to understand the issue better so I can think on different possible solutions.


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## mark49152 (Sep 5, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> True, but you don’t have to share it. That information can be kept away from the public and only used “behind the scenes” to determine appropriate category.


Personally I don't see a problem with exposing birth year info, for example in WCA exports, as long as (a) it's opt-in only, (b) excludes minors, and (c) includes only the year, which is a good enough compromise for rankings but of little use to identity thieves.


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## SpartanSailor (Sep 5, 2018)

That’s my thought as well. I am interested to hear the argument against that... purely for my own interest. Oh well, if this actually gains any traction, I’m sure we will have a venue to express our thoughts on the matter.


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## Mike Hughey (Sep 5, 2018)

@Old Tom While it is undeniably true that older folks get slower, I like to look at musicians for inspiration. Such as Vladimir Horowitz, who was still performing nearly flawlessly at age 85. Clearly, if you can already move fast at something, it is a bit easier to stay fast than it is to get fast in the first place; I'd like to think there's a reasonable chance we can hold onto our speed much longer than the average person does, with practice.


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## mark49152 (Sep 5, 2018)

And... Mike got #20,000


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## Old Tom (Sep 5, 2018)

Mike Hughey said:


> @Old Tom While it is undeniably true that older folks get slower, I like to look at musicians for inspiration. Such as Vladimir Horowitz, who was still performing nearly flawlessly at age 85. Clearly, if you can already move fast at something, it is a bit easier to stay fast than it is to get fast in the first place; I'd like to think there's a reasonable chance we can hold onto our speed much longer than the average person does, with practice.



I applaud you for that attitude. But the odds that it will happen for you are poor. So, another avenue would be good to have. Look at all the golfers who now play on the senior circuit. Keeps them happy, and rich.


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## One Wheel (Sep 5, 2018)

mark49152 said:


> Personally I don't see a problem with exposing birth year info, for example in WCA exports, as long as (a) it's opt-in only, (b) excludes minors, and (c) includes only the year, which is a good enough compromise for rankings but of little use to identity thieves.



I concur wholeheartedly. You could get more information from Whitepages.com than from the WCA site with this modification. I personally support splitting people into 20-year groups: under 20, 20-39, 40-59, and 60+. We could break out 60-79, 80-99, and 100+ as well, I'm just not sure there are enough competitors that age to warrant those categories.


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## Mike Hughey (Sep 5, 2018)

Old Tom said:


> I applaud you for that attitude. But the odds that it will happen for you are poor. So, another avenue would be good to have. Look at all the golfers who now play on the senior circuit. Keeps them happy, and rich.


By the way, part of why I look to musicians is because I am one. I'm hoping my odds are better than most. Maybe just wishful thinking.  Anyway, I've always said I plan to give a concert on my 100th birthday. No guarantees how good it will be or how many people will attend, but I assure you that if I'm still around, I'm giving a concert!!


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## One Wheel (Sep 5, 2018)

Mike Hughey said:


> I've always said I plan to give a concert on my 100th birthday. No guarantees how good it will be or how many people will attend, but I assure you that if I'm still around, I'm giving a concert!!



My favorite plan is my sister's: she's got a couple of oak trees planted in the yard about 10' apart, 7' tall. On her eleventy first birthday she plans to hang a rope swing between them, grab the rope, and yell to all of her assembled children, grandchildren, and great-grandchildren "hey ya'll, watch this!"

I'll be happy to die chasing cows at 80, nothing so dramatic for me.


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## mafergut (Sep 5, 2018)

Wow! This thread is huge! 20K posts and 1K pages. It must be some kind of Guinness WR, hahaha


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## Logiqx (Sep 5, 2018)

Gosh, it's been a long time since I visited the forum. So many posts to catch up on... I can't believe the thread has gone beyond 1000 pages!

A few updates from my end:

- During the month of July, I pretty much didn't cube with the exception of Sq1 which I was getting better at every day. I got my times down to sub-50 globally but when I realised that I wasn't going to be eligible to compete at UKC in October and unlikely to get a chance until next year, I stopped practising it completely. My other events had got significantly worse since late June so I decided I should start practising them again.

- In August my brother's family visited for a few days and during that time, I re-taught my nephew to solve the cube. I taught him about 3 years ago but it was quite rushed and he basically forgot how to do it afterwards. He's really got into it this time, done hundreds of solves and wants a decent cube for his birthday. His parents are happy that he has found something that keeps him off the X-Box! Maybe I'll bring him along to a competition next year.

- My times have suffered big time after almost 2 months without proper practice and I'm trying to get back to where I was earlier this year. My OH times were worst hit from being almost sub-23 globally and falling back to being sup-26 globally (really quite depressing after the hard work to get down to 23s). It's taken weeks and weeks of practice to get back to low-24 globally but I'm hoping that I can get back to my ability in June for the UKC in October. My 2H times weren't as badly hit but they dropped from low-15's globally to mid-16's globally.

- I've registered for UKC in October but I've got to be realistic that I can't practice 10-12 events and do well when all of my times have gotten worse in recent months. I've therefore decided to do just 6 events - 3x3, OH, 2x2, 4x4, Pyra, Skewb. For the last couple of weeks, I've only practised 3x3, OH, Pyra and Skewb which is the most I can squeeze into my schedule but I seem to be making progress in all of them. Global times are currently as follows; 3x3 ~mid-15's, OH low-24's, Pyra ~mid-6's, Skewb ~mid-9's. I haven't touched a 2x2 since early June and I haven't touched a 4x4 this year but I'll start them in late September. These are the 6 events where my official times are a long way off my best global times at home which is why I've decided to do them at UKC.

- I've recently gotten myself a GTS3M and Gans 354. I'm really not that keen on the GTS3M but I really love the Gans 354 which is possibly now my main and the hardware is helping me to regain my old times in 3x3 + OH. I really like it for OH and I'm also finding it works well for my 2H solving.

- I'm going in Cornwall next week with my other half but that means yet another blanket ban on any cubing. My cubing progress sometimes feel analogous to the punishment of Sisyphus (click if you don't know the story). Sigh...

There were a few posts that I was going to comment on but I see they have already been addressed.

@Selkie regarding age categories in the WCA database - feel free to contact me directly as an experienced software + data professional. I have a number of ideas as to how it could be implemented and concerns mitigated.



CLL Smooth said:


> I’ve finally picked through the accomplishment thread and have found what I think are my current PBs in the events I practice. Can someone add me to the pb sheet if I just write them here?



Send me a PM with your e-mail address and I'll give you access to the spreadsheet.


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## pglewis (Sep 5, 2018)

Mike Hughey said:


> @Old Tom While it is undeniably true that older folks get slower, I like to look at musicians for inspiration. Such as Vladimir Horowitz, who was still performing nearly flawlessly at age 85. Clearly, if you can already move fast at something, it is a bit easier to stay fast than it is to get fast in the first place; I'd like to think there's a reasonable chance we can hold onto our speed much longer than the average person does, with practice.



I've been a guitar player for 35 years and can confidently say my physical ability continues to improve. I'm more capable today, at 50, than I've ever been. At some point it'll turn the corner but I haven't quite peaked yet. But I think the _real_ edge/bottleneck in cubing is reaction time. I often explain to people that what I do in a solve is more akin to playing Tetris than solving a puzzle. There was thinking and reasoning involved while I was learning but now it's entirely reacting to patterns and that's an area that highly favors young minds. Barring something catastrophic I feel like my physical ability could continue to improve for at least another ten years but I've already lost a step or two on reaction time in the past decade. 

I think you, Ron, and Mats Bergsten are the primary examples we have for exploring the question and so far all three of you have continued to maintain your 3x3 pace. August was a minimal practice period for me and after a couple days of getting the rust off it seems like my brain continued to work on unfinished F2L refinements even when I wasn't practicing as I'm seeing more sub 20s and even sub 19s than ever. I lost a few OLLs that were never strong in the first place but even if I had to 2-look I feel like I could maintain where I currently am with a few days of brush-up every few weeks. I have an understandable curiosity on the topic .


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## SpartanSailor (Sep 6, 2018)

Good morning (or afternoon as may be appropriate)...

Just a quick morning couple attempts with my 5x5 and just did 2:29.76—new PB single and my first sub-2:30! Everything about that one felt pretty good. Not too many long pauses searching for edges/wings and relatively smooth centre building as well. Great start of the day.


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## Old Tom (Sep 6, 2018)

@pglewis, @Mike Hughey, and others: This discussion of decline (or lack of it) in manual and reaction skills is really interesting. Your correlation with musical abilities seems apt. Obviously, not my area of experience, but I can think of others where I have exposure: speed chess, pocket billiards (pool), etc. There are of course plenty of computer games in addition to Tetris. I was once a reviewer for one of the original first-person-shooter games (Doom) and actually had my name on the back of the box for one version of that. I was 50 at that time, and plenty good, though better at 40. Not so much, or rather, not at all, today!

One thing we have not mentioned, or not much: nerves (anxiety). That is really bothering me now when speed cubing. Since I never aimed at speed before, can't compare to my younger self. But I was pretty cool playing speed chess until I stopped at 60.

It occurred to me that all this must have been already studied scientifically. Sure has! Google "decline in manual dexterity with age" and take your pick among many interesting (to me, anyway) scholarly articles. I haven't yet Googled the "mental" or "reaction time" topics, but I'm sure there is plenty there also.

Read it all if you like, don't get depressed, I'm not. We are all biodegradable, just at different rates.


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## pglewis (Sep 6, 2018)

Old Tom said:


> Read it all if you like, don't get depressed, I'm not. We are all biodegradable, just at different rates.



If nothing else maybe the cubing will help stave off some of the mental decline. I'm certainly willing to risk it .


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## Old Tom (Sep 6, 2018)

pglewis said:


> If nothing else maybe the cubing will help stave off some of the mental decline. I'm certainly willing to risk it .



Me too. And there are studies documenting the benefits of "mental exercise."


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## Selkie (Sep 6, 2018)

I cannot say how delighted I am, that returning today, I see the number of people who have contributed to the discussion on age and aged based rankings.

The board election process included a week of debate with delegates, an aspect of the election that I found highly rewarding. Whilst this debate was not public I am happy to share with you a excerpt from one of my replies:-

_....I also believe there are ways we can engage and motivate those competitors who form the other 90%. As you well know my own solves are never going to challenge any NRs but I gain a lot of motivation from competing virtually with other solvers over 40. There is an unofficial over 40's ranking system for those who opt in. One of the main reasons I am motivated to practice every day is to try and catch Ron at 3x3 or try to to regain my 6x6 no1 spot etc. As cubing has grown so has the vast number of people who just challenge their own personal bests. Should we be trying to devise new mechanisms to give other cubers milestones or ranks to attain? The interest in Nemesizer and KinchRanks demonstrates the appetite for cubers to have something to quantify their progression against their peers..... _​
There are some very good arguments in the last couple of thread pages about data protection, about ethical considerations, about methodologies that could be adopted to deliver a solution. All very useful collateral for which I have made notes.

I am but one board member and my views may not be shared with others. There may not be change tomorrow, next month or within a year but I will fully raise, support and endorse this. The unofficial over 40 rankings developed and maintained by @Logiqx is invaluable and I believe has given great motivation and a sense of inclusion to many senior solvers. The officialisation of this would be great for our community in my humble opinion.

The only other thing I would like to raise at this stage is again a comment I made within the debate:-

_...I would firstly like to say that if elected I would view my position more in the ethos of "I am an elected representative" rather than "I am a board member"..._​
I am very eager in the position to spend time talking with the community and understanding any issues, concerns, recommendations and challenges. Never hesitate to drop me a line if you want to chat about anything.


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## mark49152 (Sep 7, 2018)

@Selkie - I think it's worth noting that the comprehensive WCA pages showing complete results history, personal records and rankings are one of the great things about competitive cubing. Those pages publicly acknowledge what we have achieved and give us our goals for the next comp. I would personally be far less motivated to compete if my results were discarded or invisible unless I podium, as is the case in many other competitive activities.

IMHO this is fundamental to the culture of competitive cubing and is one of the greatest assets the WCA has. Without it we would think and behave differently and our competitions might be very different experiences than they are today. The interest in age-based rankings, as well as Kinchranks and other unofficial views created on the results data, is a product of that same culture. It would be great to see the WCA do more to build upon and enhance that, whether for subgroups like over-40s or for the overall community.


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## Logiqx (Sep 8, 2018)

FYI - I dropped the following thoughts to @Selkie in a PM:

Jo and I are heading over to Cornwall (Polzeath) for a week but I thought I would drop some thoughts into a message whilst I remember.

The database export itself doesn't require an actual DOB or YOB. I'm not sure if you've ever looked at the database but there are two main tables which include peoples times; results and rankings. A convenient way to produce age based rankings would be an additional "virtual age" column on the results table. It would then be possible to produce things like over 40's rankings, over 60's or any other category with simple SQL queries.

The "virtual age" column could work in the same way as it does on my unofficial rankings. Each WCA competitor could choose whether it is to the day, month or year as part of their preferences, resulting in a virtual DOB. My actual DOB is 1972-07-04 but my virtual DOB for the year-only preference would be 1972-12-31 under the covers. Someone opted out of it would have a virtual DOB of something like 9999-12-31. The "virtual DOB" doesn't need to be included in the export since it is only required to generate the "virtual age" column on the results table.

Any single export of the database would not include anything resembling a DOB but depending on the age granularity for a single competitor and their frequency of competitions it may be possible to derive something approximating their DOB using multiple database exports. IMHO anyone who attends competitions infrequently or has month/year granularity is very unlikely to have their actual DOB surfaced through multiple database exports and subsequent analysis. So long as people can opt in to day/month/year/no virtual DOB then it's a hell of a lot safer than having your DOB publicly visible on Facebook or any other random page on the internet


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## SpartanSailor (Sep 8, 2018)

Goo


Logiqx said:


> FYI - I dropped the following thoughts to @Selkie in a PM:
> 
> Jo and I are heading over to Cornwall (Polzeath) for a week but I thought I would drop some thoughts into a message whilst I remember.
> 
> ...



Good thought. another variation on that...

WCA could do competitor age similar to how the do nationality. A competitor can change their nationality, but not mid-year. (Maybe that’s just USA CUBING, but stick with me). 

So instead everyone’s virtual DOB would be Jan 1, “year”. Then you are your age as of Jan 1 regardless of when your actual birthday may occur. 

So if you “age out” or “in” to a new category in say, August, then you don’t change category until Jan 1 of the following year. 

Idk... something like that.


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## Logiqx (Sep 8, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> Goo
> 
> 
> Good thought. another variation on that...
> ...



That's how I initially did the unofficial rankings but some people requested their actual dob be used otherwise they missed out some results.

In sports such as athletics you become eligible for official records such as first over 40 under 10 seconds for 100m on your birthday.

My proposal is that we give people the option of actual dob being used or the yearly principle. There happens to be a third option in the middle as well (month)

All 3 options are used in the unofficial rankings so they'd transfer well to the official database.


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## pglewis (Sep 8, 2018)

Logiqx said:


> That's how I initially did the unofficial rankings but some people requested their actual dob be used otherwise they missed out some results.
> 
> In sports such as athletics you become eligible for official records such as first over 40 under 10 seconds for 100m on your birthday.
> 
> ...



Yeah, I'm a January b-day and wanted to enter the 50+ category sooner rather than later.


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## Sergey (Sep 9, 2018)

Ha, did my first comps after about seven months of cubing! Just for fun. And it was fun! And it is "slightly" different from solving at home . During the first 3x3 solve in the first round the glare from the sun on the puzzle was blinded me and it was 39.74 , average 34.24, 27.71 best, 49/83. But it was surprisingly enough for the pass to the second round. So I finished at 38/50 with avg 26.74 and 22.95+ best. Puzzles which I'm not hard training - 4x4 - 21/32 with 1:30.08 best, did not passed 1:30 cutoff, 5x5 - 18/22 with 3:39.45 best, did not passed 3:00 cutoff. So the goals to do sub30 for 3x3 and to pass limits on 4x4 and 5x5 on comps was achieved, do sub25 for 3x3 - not. 

Puzzles used (all stickerless) - MoYu Weilong GTS2, QiYi WuQue Mini M, QiYi WuShuang.

Now I'm thinking to buy timer and mat, because this component - physically taking/dropping puzzle and using timer - needs to be training too, IMO.


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## SpartanSailor (Sep 9, 2018)

Sergey said:


> Ha, did my first comps after about seven months of cubing! Just for fun. And it was fun! And it is "slightly" different from solving at home . During the first 3x3 solve in the first round the glare from the sun on the puzzle was blinded me and it was 39.74 , average 34.24, 27.71 best, 49/83. But it was surprisingly enough for the pass to the second round. So I finished at 38/50 with avg 26.74 and 22.95+ best. Puzzles which I'm not hard training - 4x4 - 21/32 with 1:30.08 best, did not passed 1:30 cutoff, 5x5 - 18/22 with 3:39.45 best, did not passed 3:00 cutoff. So the goals to do sub30 for 3x3 and to pass limits on 4x4 and 5x5 on comps was achieved, do sub25 for 3x3 - not.
> 
> Puzzles used (all stickerless) - MoYu Weilong GTS2, QiYi WuQue Mini M, QiYi WuShuang.
> 
> Now I'm thinking to buy timer and mat, because this component - physically taking/dropping puzzle and using timer - needs to be training too, IMO.


 nice job!


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## Old Tom (Sep 9, 2018)

Sergey said:


> Ha, did my first comps after about seven months of cubing! Just for fun. And it was fun! And it is "slightly" different from solving at home . During the first 3x3 solve in the first round the glare from the sun on the puzzle was blinded me and it was 39.74 , average 34.24, 27.71 best, 49/83. But it was surprisingly enough for the pass to the second round. So I finished at 38/50 with avg 26.74 and 22.95+ best. Puzzles which I'm not hard training - 4x4 - 21/32 with 1:30.08 best, did not passed 1:30 cutoff, 5x5 - 18/22 with 3:39.45 best, did not passed 3:00 cutoff. So the goals to do sub30 for 3x3 and to pass limits on 4x4 and 5x5 on comps was achieved, do sub25 for 3x3 - not.
> 
> Puzzles used (all stickerless) - MoYu Weilong GTS2, QiYi WuQue Mini M, QiYi WuShuang.
> 
> Now I'm thinking to buy timer and mat, because this component - physically taking/dropping puzzle and using timer - needs to be training too, IMO.



Really excellent, after just seven months. Since you are posting here in the Older Cubers group, would you mind letting us know your age? It's OK if you don't, but I for one am always curious about the age of the posters here. The thread has recently been discussing how age affects abiliity, and especially speed. We did not discuss speed-of-learning, specifically, but this is obviously an important aspect of that.


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## Sergey (Sep 9, 2018)

Old Tom said:


> Really excellent, after just seven months. Since you are posting here in the Older Cubers group, would you mind letting us know your age? It's OK if you don't, but I for one am always curious about the age of the posters here. The thread has recently been discussing how age affects abiliity, and especially speed. We did not discuss speed-of-learning, specifically, but this is obviously an important aspect of that.


Thank you! I'm 49. And I'm very impressed by your motivation and ability to start cubing and even compete at your age! And thanks to all community for the likes, support and motivation!


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## Old Tom (Sep 9, 2018)

Sergey said:


> Thank you! I'm 49. And I'm very impressed by your motivation and ability to start cubing and even compete at your age! And thanks to all community for the likes, support and motivation!



Thanks, you really do belong here! And yes, I am 80, but I actually l started cubing younger than you, when I was 42. I kept at it steadily but very low-key until just this year, when the guys in this group got me to enter a comp, and take up blind solving. That, BTW, should be next for you!


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## openseas (Sep 10, 2018)

Sergey said:


> Thank you! I'm 49. And I'm very impressed by your motivation and ability to start cubing and even compete at your age! And thanks to all community for the likes, support and motivation!


@Sergey / Congratulations! It’s a big milestone!


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## pglewis (Sep 10, 2018)

Blind is still on the back burner with 3x3 getting all my practice time but I'll get back to it before too long. I've pretty much determined my new bell curve is solidly in the 22-23 range when the lookahead is going reasonably well. Low 20.x solves with small mistakes are becoming increasingly common and a full step 18 or two is becoming a thing in a decent session. Not quite a sub-20 explosion yet but definitely visible from here. 

I'm starting to threaten my 3x3 single for the first time since I set it back in April. Got a 16.04 with an OLL skip a couple days ago, could have been a little better minus the PLL recognition pause. I'm due for one good one in the 13-14 range given enough timed solves to stumble on some luck. 

Biggest longer average drains at the moment:

Mistakes: botched cross, mis-solved pairs trying to look ahead, some annoying LL execution issues (I'm naturally starting to turn a little faster but haven't adjusted my technique, get blocked by the hardware or make an unintended layer turn)
My slowest OLLs, probably a dozen+ that I recognize and/or execute poorly or even 2-look
Slow cross
LL pauses in general are starting to matter, probably costing 2-3 seconds in some cases
Next level: I need to start exploring grip/re-grips. I'm fairly happy with all my primary F2L cases right now, including alternates for the EO situation in most cases, but it doesn't always flow. Re-grips were never remotely a bottleneck until now but if I want to dig deeper into the teens it'll be a lot easier if I smooth out the re-grip stutter. Some areas should continue to improve naturally on their own with practice: F2L, my weak OLLs, LL pauses... but grip optimization is something I'm going to have to sit down, analyze, and consciously work on. 

Random thought: I'm starting to notice a "coincidence" that a lot of my fastest solves/best grooves occur when I'm otherwise occupying my brain listening to/watching something streaming. It seems to drag me out of that "gotta find the blue/red edge!!" mindset and more into just seeing things. When I was around a minute it was completely the opposite and I couldn't fathom solving quickly with even the slightest distraction. It's still not something I can fully command, just putting on a podcast and solving is no guarantee I'll be faster but it does seem like it increases the odds of finding the zone.


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## chtiger (Sep 10, 2018)

My comp results from Saturday
http://cubecomps.com/live.php?cid=3474&compid=87
Highlights were getting sub-9 clock avg, even after messing up the first two solves
10.23, 13.04, 7.40, 7.69, 8.23 = *8.72*
and a sub-7 single in the first round (6.96)


Spoiler: the other events



3x3 - Still trying for sub-20 avg. Can't do that with only one sub-20 single.
2x2 - Not one smooth solve, one was so sloppy I dropped the cube. Still only .01 from PB because that's how I always do 2x2 in comp.
pyra - goal of sub-10 avg. Messed up two really bad, the other 3 were good, including PB single 7.14.
skewb - same goal as pyra. Messed up the first layer on first one, then again on the second one but got a OLL skip (or whatever the equivalent for skewb is called) so it ended up ok, then the last three were good, so got a 9.06 avg.
square1 - just doing this because it's there and I'm there. Did decent for me, 41.71 avg. Would've been better if pieces of the cube would stop falling off.
OH - was just hoping to make 50 second cutoff. Did that. Second solve was 48 but at the end, instead of R2 U', I did R U' R and stopped timer, so DNF. That would've been sub-50 avg, but 53.16 is still probably good enough for me to retire from OH.


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## mark49152 (Sep 10, 2018)

Sub 10 clock... wow. I will have to go check where you are in the oldie rankings!

Edit: 3rd, up from 4th


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## Logiqx (Sep 10, 2018)

Sergey said:


> Thank you! I'm 49. And I'm very impressed by your motivation and ability to start cubing and even compete at your age! And thanks to all community for the likes, support and motivation!



Would you like adding to the over 40s rankings?


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## Old Tom (Sep 10, 2018)

@Logiqx: I have forgotten how to access the Over-40 rankings. Pls post a how-to.


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## openseas (Sep 10, 2018)

@Old Tom / You can find the link under Logiqx's signature.

40's ranking: https://github.com/Logiqx/wca-ipy
40's unofficial PBs: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1XEEV3LObw7cHNW6S_AZdHJWqKLQFoXRW0wwnDneags4/edit#gid=0


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## pglewis (Sep 11, 2018)

Logiqx said:


> I really love the Gans 354 which is possibly now my main and the hardware is helping me to regain my old times in 3x3 + OH.



Mine arrived yesterday, I've been exclusively stickerless for ages so I was looking forward to trying a modern Gan. It's the most aesthetically pleasing puzzle I've owned by a long-shot; shades, black internals, the subtle sculpt of the center caps... everything about it is beautiful with the singular complaint that *logos are forbidden for blind* (at least also provide a plain cap if you insist on making the the logo harder to remove). 

I really want to love this puzzle but it's taking some experimenting to find a setup that suits me. Mine shipped with the green GES and I swapped them out for yellow almost immediately since it seems like everyone on Earth chooses those, from the reviews I've read. I couldn't really make the yellow work for me though. I either had to set it up too loose to be very stable for me with some finger tricks, or tighter, which was a lot more friction than I prefer and a little locky. I decided to try the blue ones on a whim last night, tightened a fair bit (maybe 2-3 threads exposed at the top of the nut) and it's far better for me but still not quite dialed-in. 

Have you settled on a set-up?


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## Old Tom (Sep 11, 2018)

pglewis said:


> Mine arrived yesterday, I've been exclusively stickerless for ages so I was looking forward to trying a modern Gan. It's the most aesthetically pleasing puzzle I've owned by a long-shot; shades, black internals, the subtle sculpt of the center caps... everything about it is beautiful with the singular complaint that *logos are forbidden for blind* (at least also provide a plain cap if you insist on making the the logo harder to remove).
> 
> I really want to love this puzzle but it's taking some experimenting to find a setup that suits me. Mine shipped with the green GES and I swapped them out for yellow almost immediately since it seems like everyone on Earth chooses those, from the reviews I've read. I couldn't really make the yellow work for me though. I either had to set it up too loose to be very stable for me with some finger tricks, or tighter, which was a lot more friction than I prefer and a little locky. I decided to try the blue ones on a whim last night, tightened a fair bit (maybe 2-3 threads exposed at the top of the nut) and it's far better for me but still not quite dialed-in.
> 
> Have you settled on a set-up?



The logo comes off easily with a gentle rub using 95% ethanol and a "Magic Eraser." Takes just a minute.

I have very clumsy and stiff fingers, so the rest of you may not have this problem, but: The cube often "sticks", not exactly locks, when two corners catch each other. Some corners do, others don't. I notice some of the corner points feel sharp. I have thought about very gently filing them, but have not tried this yet.

Still, now my main cube (limited experience, but). I have small hands, which is a factor.


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## JohnnyReggae (Sep 12, 2018)

pglewis said:


> ...
> 
> I really want to love this puzzle but it's taking some experimenting to find a setup that suits me. Mine shipped with the green GES and I swapped them out for yellow almost immediately since it seems like everyone on Earth chooses those, from the reviews I've read. I couldn't really make the yellow work for me though. I either had to set it up too loose to be very stable for me with some finger tricks, or tighter, which was a lot more friction than I prefer and a little locky. I decided to try the blue ones on a whim last night, tightened a fair bit (maybe 2-3 threads exposed at the top of the nut) and it's far better for me but still not quite dialed-in.
> 
> Have you settled on a set-up?


I am loving the GAN354. I've kept mine stock OOTB with the green nuts. I much prefer looser and faster cubes so this suits me completely. It is my OH main and for 2H I go between the GAN, the Yuxin Huanglong M, and Valk Power M, but mostly the GAN.

For OH the GAN has helped drop my average by a few seconds. I was averaging around 30 seconds before and now I'm around the 26 second mark, and have even managed a few more sub 20's in the last couple weeks. I really need to learn full OH OLL  For 2H it has helped me get a lot more sub 15's and have been getting frequent 10's and 11's.

I do struggle with certain PLL algs which are easier on other cubes, mostly notably the G perms and the V Perm. I like the stickerless colours which help a lot with recognition compared to some other stickerless cubes. It's possibly the black internals that help the colours "pop" a little. Lastly the size is perfect for me both for OH and 2H. It's weird how for OH I started with a 50mm, progressed through a 54mm to a 57mm and have slowly worked my way back down to a 54mm.

Overall I am very impressed with the GAN354. For me it is the flagship out at the moment. I have not had such a marked improvement with a cube before.


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## pglewis (Sep 12, 2018)

JohnnyReggae said:


> I've kept mine stock OOTB with the green nuts. I much prefer looser and faster cubes so this suits me completely.



I like 'em fast with a light touch as well. I swapped out for green last night and am running with those for the moment. Still going back and forth between "I love this cube!" and "I hate this cube!" lol. 



JohnnyReggae said:


> I do struggle with certain PLL algs which are easier on other cubes, mostly notably the G perms and the V Perm.



Heh, bingo... wondering if you use the RUD V-Perm as well. I've been reluctant to completely blame the puzzle since I've had some recent LL issues before getting the Gan. I need to slow up just a tad until my technique adjusts to match my increasing turn speed. Still, certain algs like G Perms and some of the RUD algs are much more reliable for me on my GTS2, GTS3, or Huanglong. 



JohnnyReggae said:


> I like the stickerless colours which help a lot with recognition compared to some other stickerless cubes.



Yeah my favorite stickerless shades yet. Very close to the Huanglong's shades but the colors pop better with the black internals as it stops the light from shining through.


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## JohnnyReggae (Sep 13, 2018)

pglewis said:


> I like 'em fast with a light touch as well. I swapped out for green last night and am running with those for the moment. Still going back and forth between "I love this cube!" and "I hate this cube!" lol.


To be honest I haven't even tried the other nuts yet as I found that the Green just work. With my SM and AIR I used the purple nuts so I'm quite happy with loose and fast 



pglewis said:


> Heh, bingo... wondering if you use the RUD V-Perm as well. I've been reluctant to completely blame the puzzle since I've had some recent LL issues before getting the Gan. I need to slow up just a tad until my technique adjusts to match my increasing turn speed. Still, certain algs like G Perms and some of the RUD algs are much more reliable for me on my GTS2, GTS3, or Huanglong.


I do use the RUD V perm and it really annoys me because it is so slow and clumsy. I think it's those wide U and D moves that get me with the GAN. Because it does have some flex and when you only hold 1 layer it distorts a little easier. I have found another V Perm which is quite nice and you can finger trick it quite nicely. I just need to commit it to memory and start actively using it more ...

Algorithm is* (R' U R U') x' U (R U2 R' U' R U' R') U2 (R U R' U')* - So ... weird trigger with a rotation and a U, followed by Anti-Sune, U2, Sexy

I also think I'm going to look at G perms that don't have wide moves. I've even considered swapping to the G perms I use for OH.


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## mark49152 (Sep 13, 2018)

@JohnnyReggae - your RUD V-perm has wide moves? There's a nice one that doesn't. Can post the alg later if you want it, or I'm sure it's on algdb.net.


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## JohnnyReggae (Sep 13, 2018)

mark49152 said:


> @JohnnyReggae - your RUD V-perm has wide moves? There's a nice one that doesn't. Can post the alg later if you want it, or I'm sure it's on algdb.net.


Yes, I was referring to the R' U R' d ... bit ... sorry about creating confusion


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## SpartanSailor (Sep 13, 2018)

I am going to try out that RUD version of the V-perm... I hate the one I use which has B2 in it and D and D’ in it. It’s just awkward and slow for me. If that RUD version can be faster, I’ll switch.


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## SpartanSailor (Sep 13, 2018)

mark49152 said:


> @JohnnyReggae - your RUD V-perm has wide moves? There's a nice one that doesn't. Can post the alg later if you want it, or I'm sure it's on algdb.net.


Which do you use for V-perm? As I mentioned in the previous, I’m not a fan of mine, but it’s the one I know. I learned it before I tried others. At the time, everything felt odd and awkward, so I just assumed the V-perm would eventually feel better, yet it never has. I can do the last part quickly with D and D’ moves, but there’s just an awkward, start of R2 U’ B2 U B2 ... I just can’t get the B2 to work out smoothly...


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## JohnnyReggae (Sep 13, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> Which do you use for V-perm? As I mentioned in the previous, I’m not a fan of mine, but it’s the one I know. I learned it before I tried others. At the time, everything felt odd and awkward, so I just assumed the V-perm would eventually feel better, yet it never has. I can do the last part quickly with D and D’ moves, but there’s just an awkward, start of R2 U’ B2 U B2 ... I just can’t get the B2 to work out smoothly...


This is the one I use and I think is used by most ... 

*(R' U R' d') (R' F') (R2 U' R' U) (R' F R F) *

You can do some fingertrick stuff with it, but I can't get it to flow nicely.


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## mark49152 (Sep 13, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> Which do you use for V-perm? As I mentioned in the previous, I’m not a fan of mine, but it’s the one I know. I learned it before I tried others. At the time, everything felt odd and awkward, so I just assumed the V-perm would eventually feel better, yet it never has. I can do the last part quickly with D and D’ moves, but there’s just an awkward, start of R2 U’ B2 U B2 ... I just can’t get the B2 to work out smoothly...


R U' R U R' D R D' R U' D R2' U R2 D' R2' 

As with most RUD algs, if you learn to push and pull U and D with left hand, it's regripless and flows nicely.


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## pglewis (Sep 13, 2018)

None of the above are what I've used for V for ages: z D' R2 D R2 U R' D' R U' R U R' D R U'


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## mark49152 (Sep 13, 2018)

I used to use yours @pglewis, but switched to avoid the rotation. I still rotate z for RUD N-perms though.


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## ravicvn (Sep 13, 2018)

I got into edge parity issue with 4x4 initially but I was able to avoid it totally by using a procedure and have been successful in avoiding edge parity.

Is it usual to not to get into 4x4 edge parity at all?


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## Sergey (Sep 13, 2018)

ravicvn said:


> I got into edge parity issue with 4x4 initially but I was able to avoid it totally by using a procedure and have been successful in avoiding edge parity.
> 
> Is it usual to not to get into 4x4 edge parity at all?


There is no edge parity on 4x4, only OLL and PLL parities. Edge parity may occur only on 5x5 and higher.


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## pglewis (Sep 13, 2018)

JohnnyReggae said:


> I think it's those wide U and D moves that get me with the GAN. Because it does have some flex and when you only hold 1 layer it distorts a little easier.



Yeah, I think you completely nailed the issue I've been having. I've also had some fairly fast solves with it including a full step 17.1, which is really fast for me. 

With the green GES and tweaking the tensions (roughly 2-3 threads exposed above the nut) I think I've finally managed to find a decent sweet spot for me. 



mark49152 said:


> I used to use yours @pglewis, but switched to avoid the rotation. I still rotate z for RUD N-perms though.



I'd probably try yours but the other one works well enough for me and I have bigger issues with some OLLs. I'm sticking that one in the spreadsheet for later though. 

I never could get the RUD algs for the N-Perms to flow well for me for some reason, despite probably a year and a half with those as my primary algs... not like I gave up easily. Now I use a less efficient RUL alg for one of 'em and just do J-Perm twice for the other .


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## ravicvn (Sep 13, 2018)

Sergey said:


> There is no edge parity on 4x4, only OLL and PLL parities. Edge parity may occur only on 5x5 and higher.


Sorry, it's OLL PARITY


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## Sergey (Sep 13, 2018)

ravicvn said:


> Sorry, it's OLL PARITY


As I know there is no way to *avoid* parities on 4x4 (they can occur in about 50% of solves). BTW, if such an opportunity existed and was fast, then it would be used by speedcubers. But there is a way to *solve* parities using appropriate algs. What do you mean by "I was able to avoid it totally by using a procedure"?


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## ravicvn (Sep 13, 2018)

Sergey said:


> As I know there is no way to *avoid* parities on 4x4 (they can occur in about 50% of solves). BTW, if such an opportunity existed and was fast, then it would be used by speedcubers. But there is a way to *solve* parities using appropriate algs. What do you mean by "I was able to avoid it totally by using a procedure"?


I mean I never get OLL Parity. I just position the yellow pairs in certain position and it helps me in not getting any OLL Parity. I solved it almost 15 times and never got OLL Parity


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## SpartanSailor (Sep 13, 2018)

ravicvn said:


> I mean I never get OLL Parity. I just position the yellow pairs in certain position and it helps me in not getting any OLL Parity. I solved it almost 15 times and never got OLL Parity



Couple questions:
How/Where do you position the yellow pairs while using your procedure? And how do you know when to do so, such that you avoid parity?

I would think that doing so during the “wrong” solve would create the parity that your procedure seems to solve. Are you just doing modified PLL/OLL that corrects the parity at the same time as solving the OLL? I know of a few OLLs that can be applied this way... they have the effect of being essentially a single OLL alg rather than OLL + parity.
Curious minds want to know!


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## SpartanSailor (Sep 13, 2018)

pglewis said:


> Yeah, I think you completely nailed the issue I've been having. I've also had some fairly fast solves with it including a full step 17.1, which is really fast for me.
> 
> With the green GES and tweaking the tensions (roughly 2-3 threads exposed above the nut) I think I've finally managed to find a decent sweet spot for me.
> 
> ...


As much as I dislike the N-perm (almost as much as V-perm... perhaps more so), even I can execute it faster than doing J-perm twice...


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## CLL Smooth (Sep 13, 2018)

Sergey said:


> As I know there is no way to *avoid* parities on 4x4 (they can occur in about 50% of solves). BTW, if such an opportunity existed and was fast, then it would be used by speedcubers. But there is a way to *solve* parities using appropriate algs. What do you mean by "I was able to avoid it totally by using a procedure"?


Parity avoidance is actually a thing but not many people use it. As I think I understand it, you have to be able to do blind memo really fast and then count the number of quarter turns you make during centers. Maybe one of the blinders here understands it better.


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## openseas (Sep 14, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> As much as I dislike the N-perm (almost as much as V-perm... perhaps more so), even I can execute it faster than doing J-perm twice...



V perm is almost as fast as A perm (+ similar recognition): R' U R' (y) U' R' F' R2 U' R' U R' F R F , key here is (y) rotation and U' can be done at the same time or d'

N perm : R U R' U (R U R' F' R U R' U' R' F R2 U' R') (=this is J perm) U2 R U' R' or insert + (rotate) J perm + undo-insert


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## Sergey (Sep 14, 2018)

CLL Smooth said:


> Parity avoidance is actually a thing but not many people use it. As I think I understand it, you have to be able to do blind memo really fast and then count the number of quarter turns you make during centers. Maybe one of the blinders here understands it better.


I don't think that this is an avoidance in pure term. It is solving but at earlier stage.


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## mark49152 (Sep 14, 2018)

Sergey said:


> I don't think that this is an avoidance in pure term. It is solving but at earlier stage.


The point is that you avoid having to execute an OLL parity algorithm.


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## Sergey (Sep 14, 2018)

mark49152 said:


> The point is that you avoid having to execute an OLL parity algorithm.


Of course. The question, as I understood, was about avoiding parity itself so my answer was about it.


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## mark49152 (Sep 14, 2018)

Sergey said:


> Of course. The question, as I understood, was about avoiding parity itself so my answer was about it.


At what point does OLL parity start to exist? Can you take a scrambled cube and tell me whether or not it has OLL parity already? And can you do that without knowing whether I will take an odd or even number of quarter slice turns to solve my centres?


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## phreaker (Sep 14, 2018)

Gan 354M: Are others finding this cube slows down as it breaks in?

I currently use yellow nuts at flush tensions, and Angstrom lubes in it.


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## SpartanSailor (Sep 15, 2018)

Just a quick “brag”... I got a 2:19 with 5x5! That’s my first sub-2:20 and only twice else have i had anything under 2:30 (both in the days just prior to the 2:19). I was pretty excited about that one.


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## Sergey (Sep 15, 2018)

My first 7x7x7. Just received. Not tried yet.


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## pglewis (Sep 15, 2018)

phreaker said:


> Gan 354M: Are others finding this cube slows down as it breaks in?
> 
> I currently use yellow nuts at flush tensions, and Angstrom lubes in it.



The 354 is still new for me but as a general rule I only use light silicone lube (Lubicle Speedy has been my go-to) and DNM in my 3x3s. I like low effort turning and it seems like any time I've used anything heavier I've regretted it. Lower viscosity silicone lubes will dry out faster and may require more frequent reapplication. Seems like it does coat the pieces still and "reactivates" with a couple drops of DNM. Dry and crisp is perfectly fine for me as long as it's fairly fast and controllable still. 

You might also swap out for the green GES and see if that suits you more.


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## phreaker (Sep 15, 2018)

pglewis said:


> The 354 is still new for me but as a general rule I only use light silicone lube (Lubicle Speedy has been my go-to) and DNM in my 3x3s. I like low effort turning and it seems like any time I've used anything heavier I've regretted it. Lower viscosity silicone lubes will dry out faster and may require more frequent reapplication. Seems like it does coat the pieces still and "reactivates" with a couple drops of DNM. Dry and crisp is perfectly fine for me as long as it's fairly fast and controllable still.
> 
> You might also swap out for the green GES and see if that suits you more.



When I got the cube, it was stupid fast and uncontrollable for me, the thought of solving BLD on it was scary.

Now, it is very controllable. A *hair* slow, which is not something I hear people say about 354s. So I'm happy where I am. I may throw a touch of DNM in it, or dignitas to speed it up, if I want that. I don't want much more speed.

The corner cutting is so nice... I'm actually considering learning OH BLD. Just need to learn the needed perms. (note: I don't use table abuse... so OH BLD knowing M2 is a bit entertaining.  ) Finally learning the u/u' setups for the outside of the edges makes it possible to do.


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## Old Tom (Sep 15, 2018)

Sergey said:


> My first 7x7x7. Just received. Not tried yet.
> View attachment 9481



Scary just to look at! (For me.)


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## Sergey (Sep 15, 2018)

Old Tom said:


> Scary just to look at! (For me.)


 It's only at first look. When you know how to solve 4x4 and 5x5 all others are easy. Of course, it is not so simple to achieve an acceptable speed. Anyway this cube is fantastic. Very pleasant, smooth and easy turning. Layers just glides over each other. Unfortunately this one is not without manufacturing defects ;(


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## phreaker (Sep 15, 2018)

Sergey said:


> It's only at first look. When you know how to solve 4x4 and 5x5 all others are easy. Of course, it is not so simple to achieve an acceptable speed. Anyway this cube is fantastic. Very pleasant, smooth and easy turning. Layers just glides over each other. Unfortunately this one is not without manufacturing defects ;(



What is wrong with it? I'm considering getting a Hays 7M when they get to zcube.hk.


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## Sergey (Sep 15, 2018)

phreaker said:


> What is wrong with it? I'm considering getting a Hays 7M when they get to zcube.hk.


Scratches over all cube definitely are common for stickerless cubes and it is not a problem. But additionally to this, mine has defects on two corners. One contains relatively deep whitish scratch on blue side but I think it may be polished. The second one is worse. Seems like casting problem or defect that was glued over. Sharp edge on it causes discomfort during solve.


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## phreaker (Sep 15, 2018)

Sergey said:


> Scratches over all cube definitely are common for stickerless cubes and it is not a problem. But additionally to this, mine has defects on two corners. One contains relatively deep scratch but I think it may be polished. The second one is worse. Seems like casting problem or defect that was glued over. Sharp edge on it cause discomfort during solve.
> View attachment 9482View attachment 9483View attachment 9484View attachment 9485



Most stickerless cubes I get have a few little scratches at most. I'd consider that a problem. I'd talk to the people who sent it to you. That is supposed to be the best 7x7 on the market, and Yuxin cubes are usually very smooth and precise.


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## Sergey (Sep 15, 2018)

phreaker said:


> Most stickerless cubes I get have a few little scratches at most. I'd consider that a problem. I'd talk to the people who sent it to you. That is supposed to be the best 7x7 on the market, and Yuxin cubes are usually very smooth and precise.


My cost about $36. Already sent request to seller.


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## phreaker (Sep 15, 2018)

Sergey said:


> My cost about $36. Already sent request to seller.


$36? Where'd you get that?!


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## Sergey (Sep 15, 2018)

phreaker said:


> $36? Where'd you get that?!


It's without delivery, about $43.8 total. here


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## phreaker (Sep 15, 2018)

Sergey said:


> It's without delivery, about $43.8 total. here


Ok... For the other cubes in my order... I'm cheaper at zcube. So I'll wait for them to stock it.


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## Sergey (Sep 15, 2018)

phreaker said:


> Ok... For the other cubes in my order... I'm cheaper at zcube. So I'll wait for them to stock it.


There were no many choices at that moment. Now there are more sellers and price may drop.


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## newtonbase (Sep 16, 2018)

There's a new Facebook group called Senior Cubers Worldwide. I've added everyone here that I'm friends with (I think) but don't feel obliged to take part. If there's anyone else who fancies joining here's the link
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1604105099735401/


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## newtonbase (Sep 16, 2018)

Was the photo of us oldies with Professor Rubik at the WC public on this site? I wanted to link to it on the Facebook group? I'll check with everyone first of course.


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## Sergey (Sep 16, 2018)

Sergey said:


> Already sent request to seller.


The seller answered that he has some note from Yuxin that such defects are normal, easy-peasy.  Glued patch on the flagship cube. Well. Will contact Yuxin directly about this... Interesting, is there any kind of RMA at Yuxin.


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## SpartanSailor (Sep 16, 2018)

newtonbase said:


> There's a new Facebook group called Senior Cubers Worldwide. I've added everyone here that I'm friends with (I think) but don't feel obliged to take part. If there's anyone else who fancies joining here's the link
> https://www.facebook.com/groups/1604105099735401/


I sent a request to join the group... thanks!


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## newtonbase (Sep 16, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> I sent a request to join the group... thanks!


You're in!


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## h2f (Sep 17, 2018)

newtonbase said:


> There's a new Facebook group called Senior Cubers Worldwide. I've added everyone here that I'm friends with (I think) but don't feel obliged to take part. If there's anyone else who fancies joining here's the link
> https://www.facebook.com/groups/1604105099735401/



I think thats a great idea. Thanks Mark.


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## mafergut (Sep 17, 2018)

newtonbase said:


> There's a new Facebook group called Senior Cubers Worldwide. I've added everyone here that I'm friends with (I think) but don't feel obliged to take part. If there's anyone else who fancies joining here's the link
> https://www.facebook.com/groups/1604105099735401/


I just requested to join! Good idea


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## Sergey (Sep 17, 2018)

Which alg you're using for 7x7x7 "double parity" (XOXOX)? Trying to adapt XXOXX.


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## pglewis (Sep 17, 2018)

Serious respect for all you OH solvers out there, btw. I really don't care for it, personally, but I do practice it while walking home with my daily coffee. Replacement GTS2M corner ordered and on the way, may it rest in peace. I would not make a good juggler.


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## Old Tom (Sep 18, 2018)

Progress report on my 3BLD journey: Three weeks after my first "pure" solve, I am making slow progress. Sticking mostly to my plan (sort of) of ignoring speed, trying instead to get consistent. Doing things mostly in sections. Corners are going very well, almost "easy." Edges are currently a real problem, less than 25% success rate. Usually, I don't know which of the many possible errors I have made. Practice! I do this every day, but also get mentally tired, need to back off.

Real progress in that sticker positions are now effortless, mostly. Setups are "familiar", but not yet "automatic", that will come. Both of these advances make for less mental effort, and I am very happy with the improvement there.

I have actually gotten a bit sloppy with my practice sessions. I often watch TV (closed captions) while I do a memo and solve. I interrupt things if the TV (mostly sports and news) gets interesting. This is how I have cubed for 35+ years; it is relaxing and enjoyable!

I am somewhat discouraged that I simply cannot improve finger speed. I have been trying hard to use "finger tricks", but I am just too old, with all sorts of physical and neurological problems that I will not bore you with. I can get under one turn-per-second, but that's about it. Mentally I am ok, but probably slower there also. Since the OP method takes about 340-360 turns, I will need about 5-6 minutes just for execution, with NO hesitations. The usual 10 minute limit at comps will be a major challenge, but possible.

I am having fun with memo and trace. Long, long way to go to get faster, but I really think I can make major advances there. I guess this is a very individual thing, but any tips would be welcome. 

But, in particular: I am definitely sticking to letter pairs, but am not sure if it will be effective to mix single-word pairs with two-word pairs. Just as an example, could be anything else: Pair CW. I try for a name first. Takes me too long to find Christopher Walken or Chris Webber (US basketball player). Instead, I can quickly think of CoW, a good mental image. But that's a one-word pair that tends to throw my memo off. Instead, I can almost as quickly think of Clock-Wise, or Counter-Weight, both of which can be worked into good images. Or Cheese-Whiz!

Any advice there? Thanks, and excuse the long post. I figure you have all been where I am now!


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## h2f (Sep 18, 2018)

Old Tom said:


> I am definitely sticking to letter pairs, but am not sure if it will be effective to mix single-word pairs with two-word pairs. Just as an example, could be anything else



It's effective. Just stick with what you are comfortable and strong image for it.


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## openseas (Sep 18, 2018)

Old Tom said:


> But, in particular: I am definitely sticking to letter pairs, but am not sure if it will be effective to mix single-word pairs with two-word pairs. Just as an example, could be anything else: Pair CW. I try for a name first. Takes me too long to find Christopher Walken or Chris Webber (US basketball player). Instead, I can quickly think of CoW, a good mental image. But that's a one-word pair that tends to throw my memo off. Instead, I can almost as quickly think of Clock-Wise, or Counter-Weight, both of which can be worked into good images. Or Cheese-Whiz!



It is recommended to make images personal. Instead of a random guy Joe, a friend of yours is stronger. A cow is a good one but much better if you have any personal experience with a cow (circumstance or memory). I use Chewie for CW and just memo like audio of “AAARRRGWWWH”


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## mark49152 (Sep 18, 2018)

Old Tom said:


> I am somewhat discouraged that I simply cannot improve finger speed. I have been trying hard to use "finger tricks", but I am just too old, with all sorts of physical and neurological problems that I will not bore you with. I can get under one turn-per-second, but that's about it. Mentally I am ok, but probably slower there also. Since the OP method takes about 340-360 turns, I will need about 5-6 minutes just for execution, with NO hesitations. The usual 10 minute limit at comps will be a major challenge, but possible.


Great that you are making progress and enjoying it. Your turning will speed up gradually in time, just like everybody's, but with your natural limitations you might find move efficiency a more rewarding and interesting long term goal. The Beyer-Hardwick (BH) method uses move-optimal commutators for execution, meaning typically 8-10 moves per letter pair. It's a lot to learn, but hugely interesting because it requires developing a good understanding of how the cube works and it gives many opportunities for studying and strategizing as you develop and organise your own repertoire of commutators.


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## SpartanSailor (Sep 18, 2018)

Old Tom said:


> Progress report on my 3BLD journey: Three weeks after my first "pure" solve, I am making slow progress. Sticking mostly to my plan (sort of) of ignoring speed, trying instead to get consistent. Doing things mostly in sections. Corners are going very well, almost "easy." Edges are currently a real problem, less than 25% success rate. Usually, I don't know which of the many possible errors I have made. Practice! I do this every day, but also get mentally tired, need to back off.
> 
> Real progress in that sticker positions are now effortless, mostly. Setups are "familiar", but not yet "automatic", that will come. Both of these advances make for less mental effort, and I am very happy with the improvement there.
> 
> ...


Nothing wrong with taking your time and enjoying it.... that’s the goal, right? I still struggle with my edge memo sometimes. Sometimes the scramble is just more difficult for me to get the letter pairs into memory. And getting it right about 1 in 4 attempts is not all that bad anyway. Well done and keep it up!


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## AvGalen (Sep 19, 2018)

Just for inspiration about "combining letterpairs": 



This is a Japanese song about rock-paper-scissors (rock = Gu, scissors = Choki, paper = Pa). By combining these 3 "shapes" creatively you can get many creations
rock with paper on top = helicopter
scissors with rock on top = snail
paper + paper = butterfly
scissors + scissors = a crab
rock + rock = snowman
...let's see if you can come up with some more 

As for learning fingertricks, I am really not someone to talk, but very simple training would be:
1) U (right-index), U' (left-index)
2) R2 U2 (right-index, middle-finger double-tap)
3) sexy-moves both right-handed (R U R' U') as left-handed (L' U' L U), repeat 6 times …again and again and again
4) T-Perm (R U R' U' R' F R2 U' R' U' R U R' F')
5) "scramble with <R, U>, solve with <R, U>" (or <L,U> for left-handed practice
The basic idea about fingertricks is that you keep your wrist-movements balanced (for every R you do an R') and you perform <L,R> with wrists, <U,F> with index-fingers (+middle-finger for U2,F2), <D> with pinky and <B> should be a slightly rotated cube to make it a <U>. As long as you are thinking about what your fingers are doing you need more training. Moves and even whole algs should be entirely muscle-memory


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## Old Tom (Sep 19, 2018)

AvGalen said:


> As for learning fingertricks, I am really not someone to talk, but very simple training would be:
> 1) U (right-index), U' (left-index)
> 2) R2 U2 (right-index, middle-finger double-tap)
> 3) sexy-moves both right-handed (R U R' U') as left-handed (L' U' L U), repeat 6 times …again and again and again
> ...



The video is interesting and amusing, especially for someone (me) who knows sign language. The hand shapes and motions for crab and butterfly are pretty much how those are signed in American Sign Language.

I am alarmed that you say that algs should be "entirely muscle memory." While I have done many algs for years (for sighted, not blind solves), and although they are by now quite effortless, my mind always remains "aware" of the movements, and I have never trained myself to be thinking of other things, such as look-ahead. My mind is sort of going "hmm/umm" in rhythm with the alg, which may be forcing me to slow down. I suspect I will have some ingrained bad habits to break.

I cannot find any good slow-motion fingertrick videos on youtube. With most of the videos they seem to be mostly showing off. I do use my index fingers, left and right, for the appropriate U moves. But I am not clear on the correct way to use my right wrist/hand/fingers/thumb. How much re-gripping or re-positioning is invloved? For example,
for an R turn, it seems most natural for me to shift my thumb to the D face while turning my wrist, so that my thumb ends up on the (now) F face. Or is this incorrect? My tendency is to do a lot of repostioning, but perhaps that is wrong?

Lots of other related questions. I guess I should go to more comps and learn first-hand.


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## pglewis (Sep 19, 2018)

Old Tom said:


> How much re-gripping or re-positioning is invloved? For example,
> for an R turn, it seems most natural for me to shift my thumb to the D face while turning my wrist, so that my thumb ends up on the (now) F face. Or is this incorrect? My tendency is to do a lot of repostioning, but perhaps that is wrong?



It's good to be flexible, for example starting an R with thumb on the front ("neutral grip", I think) or on the bottom. I try to figure out what works best in the context of the alg involved; what comes before, what comes after. Similar thing with fingering for guitar, where I'm coming from and/or where I'm going to may dictate a fingering that is a bit unusual if taken out of context.


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## pglewis (Sep 19, 2018)

I should add that it's probably best to stay in neutral grip as much as practical. I'm far from an expert on finger tricks and regrips, but it seems clear that maintaining neutral grip at the start and end of a sequence is going to be more re-grip friendly than not. 

If you're not familiar with edge orientation basics during F2L I'd suggest starting to pay attention to that. I think cube rotations are a bigger bottleneck early on than regrips and edge orientation can help you decide when to rotate for the most optimal inserts.


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## pglewis (Sep 19, 2018)

As usual, JPerm has a good video on edge orientation to determine when to rotate. The auto generated captions seem fairly good (and remember you can always slow playback speed if it's going by too fast). With 2nd layer edges in the U layer: I determine orientation by the top sticker rather than the side, which is opposite to how he does it. If the top sticker matches or is opposite the front, it's oriented. I'm sure that's entirely a matter of taste but his way of checking the side stickers turns my brain inside-out. You might have difficulty turning a lot faster or absorbing a huge number of algs but you do pick up concepts well and this is a good one IMO.


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## Old Tom (Sep 20, 2018)

pglewis said:


> As usual, JPerm has a good video on edge orientation to determine when to rotate. The auto generated captions seem fairly good (and remember you can always slow playback speed if it's going by too fast). With 2nd layer edges in the U layer: I determine orientation by the top sticker rather than the side, which is opposite to how he does it. If the top sticker matches or is opposite the front, it's oriented. I'm sure that's entirely a matter of taste but his way of checking the side stickers turns my brain inside-out. You might have difficulty turning a lot faster or absorbing a huge number of algs but you do pick up concepts well and this is a good one IMO.


Thx. Yes, auto captions are a lot better than nothing! Concepts are what I want, I am more into strategy than tactics. And, the fewer new algs the better! Has always been true for me but especially now.


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## muchacho (Sep 21, 2018)

OH Ao5 PB: 20.087 (old was 20.583 from 3 months ago).

But I'm still averaging around 26 seconds.



Spoiler



16425 Sep 21, 2018 8:48:45 AM 00:21.700 D' L2 F2 R2 U B2 L2 F2 U F2 U' B' D2 L' B2 F' L D R' D2 L' U'
16424 Sep 21, 2018 8:48:05 AM 00:17.534 D' R2 U2 B2 U' B2 D R2 D' B2 U' L D B D U F R D2 L2 B D
16423 Sep 21, 2018 8:47:16 AM 00:17.027 D R2 B2 F2 U2 R2 U' F2 R2 U L' D' R2 B' R' L D B' F D2
16422 Sep 21, 2018 8:46:27 AM 00:28.890 D2 R2 D2 U B2 R2 B2 U' R2 U' L2 B' R D R2 B R F L' U R2
16421 Sep 21, 2018 8:45:42 AM 00:21.029 F2 U' F2 U L2 D F2 L2 D2 B2 U' R F U2 L F' R B2 D' U B U'


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## openseas (Sep 23, 2018)

Any update on your weekend comp results?

I organized another comp in DFW yesterday, tried to make a little bit relaxed, low stressed comp with not-so-many-competitor but ended up with running really hard to catch up the schedule even with the threat of early exit from the venue due to miscommunication 
Any way, all went well, was able to finish on-time, didn't need to cut the schedule (negotiated with the venue somehow last minute).

So, my main focus was schedule rather than my competition performance, barely avoided triple DNF. In the 2nd round of 3BLD, first attempt was 1:26 with FD / RB flip. Judge didn't check the whole cube and wrote down the time as success  I had to write the DNF (was almost crying :-() to correct the judge. Could have been official PB (or PR what has been recommended to call these days..) . I'm still averaging about 1:30 with many 1:10~20 at home. Trying to rush the memo during the practice but it is not easy and fruitful so far.

My son got another 17s (5th official) as WR (4th WR) - it was my 2nd attempt of the 2nd round while I was tracing. Heard some quite reaction-type noise and checked whether Max did it but he looked to be quite, so it had to be my son. I guess I lost like several seconds for that + wanted to give up at some point out of excitement but was able to manage to finish and got success.

My next comp is supposed to be OSU (Portland) but due to my business trip schedule / not sure whether we can make it. If we miss it, then, it will be like no comp next two months.


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## cubework (Sep 24, 2018)

pglewis said:


> Serious respect for all you OH solvers out there, btw. I really don't care for it, personally, but I do practice it while walking home with my daily coffee. Replacement GTS2M corner ordered and on the way, may it rest in peace. I would not make a good juggler.



So how about aiming to solve two cubes whilst juggling them? lol


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## openseas (Sep 24, 2018)

I tried GTS3, M, LM, no M.

Didn’t like all of them as out of box state but they felt fast. Non-magnet version is unstable while both magnet versions are too strong (magnetic force). Being too lazy these days, didn’t want to mod much, simply took them apart and reassembled as following:

1. Corner M + edge M/no M —> half the magnet slots for edges are empty
2. Corner LM + edge M/no M —> half the magnet slots for edges are empty
3. Corner no M + edge LM

Basically, 1 & 2 are less than half magnetic strength of M or LM while 3 is no magnet version.

Both 1 & 2 came out great with DNM + weakest tension setting + loosen screw

2 will be my main for now

Picture: no M, LM, M (left to right)


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## xyzzy (Sep 24, 2018)

openseas said:


> 1. Corner M + edge M/no M —> half the magnet slots for edges are empty
> 2. Corner LM + edge M/no M —> half the magnet slots for edges are empty


These probably aren't comp legal. In theory, if you happen to get a bunch of edges of a slice so that all the no M pieces face the same side, there'll be a side with no magnetic pull and the opposite side will have the regular amount of magnetic pull.


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## Sergey (Sep 24, 2018)

xyzzy said:


> These probably aren't comp legal.


Why? https://www.worldcubeassociation.org/regulations/guidelines.html#3h+ - nothing about number of magnets...

UPD. Or you mean https://www.worldcubeassociation.org/regulations/#3h (Modified versions of puzzles are permitted only if the modification does not make any additional information available to the competitor (e.g. orientation or identity of pieces), compared to an unmodified version of the same puzzle.)?


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## xyzzy (Sep 24, 2018)

Sergey said:


> Why? https://www.worldcubeassociation.org/regulations/guidelines.html#3h+ - nothing about number of magnets...


In some scrambled states, the magnetic pull can differ between the six faces, providing extra information. This likely violates 3h:

3h) Modifications that enhance the basic concept of a puzzle are not permitted. Modified versions of puzzles are permitted only if the modification does not make any additional information available to the competitor (e.g. orientation or identity of pieces), compared to an unmodified version of the same puzzle.


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## Sergey (Sep 24, 2018)

xyzzy said:


> In some scrambled states, the magnetic pull can differ between the six faces, providing extra information. This likely violates 3h:
> 
> 3h) Modifications that enhance the basic concept of a puzzle are not permitted. Modified versions of puzzles are permitted only if the modification does not make any additional information available to the competitor (e.g. orientation or identity of pieces), compared to an unmodified version of the same puzzle.


Yes. You answered while I updated my post with the same reason.


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## openseas (Sep 24, 2018)

xyzzy said:


> In some scrambled states, the magnetic pull can differ between the six faces, providing extra information. This likely violates 3h:
> 
> 3h) Modifications that enhance the basic concept of a puzzle are not permitted. Modified versions of puzzles are permitted only if the modification does not make any additional information available to the competitor (e.g. orientation or identity of pieces), compared to an unmodified version of the same puzzle.



Hm, I guess we're not entirely in the same page, maybe my description was not accurate:

One edge piece has two plastic parts (two colored plastic): I disassembled magnet version edges and non-magnet version edges and mixed them into one. It is not using two different set of edge pieces. All edges are the same, in one edge piece, one color with magnet, the other color no magnet. I don't think it can provide any information, please correct me if I'm wrong.

In the picture, please imagine that combining first in the left (no magnet edge piece) with the middle (magnet edge piece) and make one edge piece.


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## xyzzy (Sep 24, 2018)

openseas said:


> I don't think it can provide any information, please correct me if I'm wrong.


It provides information about edge orientation. E.g. if the edge is in the UF position, in one orientation it'll be attracted to URF but not UFL and in the other orientation it'll be attracted to UFL but not URF. On average there'll be two attracting pieces on the left side and two attracting pieces on the right side (out of UF, UB, DF, DB), but sometimes there'll be a 1-3 split or maybe even a 0-4 split.


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## openseas (Sep 24, 2018)

xyzzy said:


> It provides information about edge orientation. E.g. if the edge is in the UF position, in one orientation it'll be attracted to URF but not UFL and in the other orientation it'll be attracted to UFL but not URF. On average there'll be two attracting pieces on the left side and two attracting pieces on the right side (out of UF, UB, DF, DB), but sometimes there'll be a 1-3 split or maybe even a 0-4 split.



Well, that's possible. Since the pull force is more like an average of all combined, it will be an issue if there are 0 split case (1-3 split won't matter much). Let me calculate that possibility.

That brings another point: all magnetic versions need to be investigated and verified. Not likely but possible to have such combinations, intentional or non-intentional.


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## Sergey (Sep 24, 2018)

openseas said:


> That brings another point: all magnetic versions need to be investigated and verified. Not likely but possible to have such combinations, intentional or non-intentional.


Interesting problem... Cannot even imagine delegate with magnetometer examining each piece of puzzles... Even assuming the introduction of some sort of certification, the puzzle must have a design that provides unavoidable damage in case of modification.


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## openseas (Sep 24, 2018)

openseas said:


> Well, that's possible. Since the pull force is more like an average of all combined, it will be an issue if there are 0 split case (1-3 split won't matter much). Let me calculate that possibility.
> 
> That brings another point: all magnetic versions need to be investigated and verified. Not likely but possible to have such combinations, intentional or non-intentional.



I was able to generate a state of 0-4 split. Confirmed, should be illegal! 
@xyzzy , thanks pointing it out! Glad that I posted here!


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## Sergey (Sep 24, 2018)

openseas said:


> I was able to generate a state of 0-4 split.


This case?


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## openseas (Sep 24, 2018)

Sergey said:


> This case?
> View attachment 9525



Yes, that's one example depending on how you matched up in terms of colors with magnets


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## Sergey (Sep 24, 2018)

openseas said:


> Yes, that's one example depending on how you matched up in terms of colors with magnets


I assumed this scheme (on the solved cube):


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## openseas (Sep 24, 2018)

Sergey said:


> I assumed this scheme (on the solved cube):
> View attachment 9526



That is correct but it depends on which color part is non-magnetized. For example, I used all white and yellow, half of red and orange edges as non-magnet versions. So, if you have a state where all white or yellow is like, DF, FU, UB, BD, then, yes, one side is 0-4 state.


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## Sergey (Sep 24, 2018)

openseas said:


> Non-magnet version is unstable while both magnet versions are too strong


Is 3LM feels stronger than factory 2M? I ordered LM yesterday...


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## openseas (Sep 24, 2018)

Sergey said:


> Is 3LM feels stronger than factory 2M? I ordered LM yesterday...



Can't confirm since I don't have GTS2 LM. But heard that same magnet combinations for GTS2 for LM version.

Since I do mostly BLD, I really like extremely weak magnets just to maintain the stability.


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## Mike Hughey (Sep 25, 2018)

I feel like sometime in the past couple of days, someone here (@openseas ? @mark49152 ?) gave a list of RUD G-perms that they used, but I didn't have much luck finding it. Whoever it was who had a good set of them, could you possibly repost them here? I'm thinking maybe it might finally be my solution to G-perms. I have never had even remotely satisfactory G-perms - they've always been awful - and lately they've been giving me even more trouble than usual. I've always been pretty good with RUD algs; maybe this would finally fix my G-perm problem?


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## mark49152 (Sep 25, 2018)

@Mike Hughey - yes I have an awesome set of RUD G-perms  

PLL12 (Gd) ( D' R U R' [U' D] R2 U' R U' R' U R' U R2 ) 

PLL13 (Gc) ( D R'2 U' R U' R U R' U R2 [D' U] R U' R' ) 

PLL14 (Gb) ( D R' U' R [U D'] R2 U R' U R U' R U' R'2 ) 

PLL15 (Ga) ( D' R2 U R' U R' U' R U' R2 [D U'] R' U R ) 

I was able to find a nice fingering & flow for all of them, but since it's subjective, will leave that as an exercise for the reader


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## openseas (Sep 26, 2018)

@Mike Hughey / I think we discussed about RUD V-perm not G perm. I learned G-perm from Chris Olson's tutorial, nothing special, like everybody else, most hated permutations to me, too


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## Mike Hughey (Sep 26, 2018)

openseas said:


> @Mike Hughey / I think we discussed about RUD V-perm not G perm. I learned G-perm from Chris Olson's tutorial, nothing special, like everybody else, most hated permutations to me, too


Okay, thanks - I did find that discussion. I think maybe @mark49152 may have just mentioned his, without actually listing them all. Mark, I'm really looking forward to seeing them!


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## mark49152 (Sep 26, 2018)

G-perms added. Sorry, I didn't get to it last night.


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## pglewis (Sep 26, 2018)

cubework said:


> So how about aiming to solve two cubes whilst juggling them? lol



Absolutely... if I want to turn two working cubes into zero working cubes and a replacement parts order


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## Mike Hughey (Sep 26, 2018)

mark49152 said:


> @Mike Hughey - yes I have an awesome set of RUD G-perms
> 
> PLL12 (Gd) ( D' R U R' [U' D] R2 U' R U' R' U R' U R2 )
> 
> ...



Thanks so much - these all seem very nice to me! Now the challenge is to actually learn them.


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## mark49152 (Sep 26, 2018)

Mike Hughey said:


> Thanks so much - these all seem very nice to me! Now the challenge is to actually learn them.


It might help to note they are all mirrors and inverses.


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## Mike Hughey (Sep 26, 2018)

mark49152 said:


> It might help to note they are all mirrors and inverses.


Thanks - I didn't notice at first because of the D moves being always moved to the beginning of the algs.


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## mark49152 (Sep 27, 2018)

Mike Hughey said:


> Thanks - I didn't notice at first because of the D moves being always moved to the beginning of the algs.


I think they can be done either end, but I have a preference for doing them first so that I can do them with my LH in parallel with a RH regrip, if one is necessary.


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## muchacho (Sep 30, 2018)

I've been practicing OH to try to be the best oldie at that. Today I realise there is someone called Dave Campbell that has an official 22 seconds average. It will be really hard to beat that, but I'll try anyway.


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## Mike Hughey (Sep 30, 2018)

Wow - has Dave turned 40??? I thought surely he was younger than that. And AvG is over 40 too! I'm getting soo old...


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## Old Tom (Sep 30, 2018)

Mike Hughey said:


> Wow - has Dave turned 40??? I thought surely he was younger than that. And AvG is over 40 too! I'm getting soo old...



There's an advantage to being 80. If you can even do it, it's not bad.


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## SpartanSailor (Oct 1, 2018)

So.... PB Ao5 on 5x5 just now... with 2:27.02. First sub-2:30 average. Pretty stoked about that one. 

Time List:
1. 2:27.51 Lw R Uw Dw L2 Fw' U L2 Bw2 B' Rw Uw' U2 Bw Fw D R U' Bw2 D R' Rw' L' Lw Fw2 Bw F' R Dw2 Uw2 Lw' U' B2 F Uw Rw' D Bw Lw2 Dw' B2 R2 F B2 U Dw2 F Fw Dw2 R' Uw Fw2 R2 Lw2 F R' L Uw' U Bw2 
2. 2:26.53 B Dw' R' Lw2 L Bw' B F Fw' R F Fw' Rw2 F' Rw2 F2 D U Bw Dw' L Fw2 Dw Rw2 Bw2 Lw Rw2 F D' Rw Bw B' R Bw U2 Lw' Rw2 D2 Uw2 B Fw F' Lw' Bw' D Uw2 R2 F' Rw' D2 L' R2 Uw D Fw' Uw' B' U F Fw2 
3. (2:20.30) Rw2 B R2 Rw Lw' L B2 F Dw' Rw D L' D' Bw' U' Uw2 R2 D F2 Lw B' D' Rw Dw' Uw' Rw2 Bw Dw' Rw2 U' R2 U' L F2 Uw' D' U2 Rw R2 Lw2 Fw' R Rw2 B2 F' U L' R2 Dw2 L' Lw Uw Dw R' Rw2 F R2 Fw' U Dw2 
4. (2:38.02) U' D Uw' Lw Dw2 Bw' U L2 U2 Fw2 R Uw2 Bw Dw2 U R' U Fw' Rw Uw B2 Rw B2 Bw' L2 Bw2 R' Fw Uw Fw F2 L' F Lw' F2 L Dw' Fw2 L R Lw2 Bw2 B2 Uw2 Fw' Uw L2 U' F2 Bw Rw' F' R2 Lw2 B Fw Dw U2 Rw' Fw' 
5. 2:27.02 D B Dw' Fw Bw D' Uw' Dw2 Rw' Dw' L R' Rw F B' Rw' F Uw Fw' B' Uw' L Uw2 Fw' B2 F U' R F U' R Lw' U Dw' Rw2 Fw R L2 Rw2 B D2 R' Rw B Dw2 R' B2 R' L2 Lw' Uw Lw' Dw Bw2 Rw' D Bw D U Dw'


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## mafergut (Oct 2, 2018)

muchacho said:


> I've been practicing OH to try to be the best oldie at that. Today I realise there is someone called Dave Campbell that has an official 22 seconds average. It will be really hard to beat that, but I'll try anyway.


I'm sure you can do it!!! And you use the correct method for that, you know! Roux rules for OH!


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## Logiqx (Oct 2, 2018)

newtonbase said:


> Was the photo of us oldies with Professor Rubik at the WC public on this site? I wanted to link to it on the Facebook group? I'll check with everyone first of course.


Done!



muchacho said:


> OH Ao5 PB: 20.087 (old was 20.583 from 3 months ago).
> But I'm still averaging around 26 seconds.
> ,,,
> I've been practicing OH to try to be the best oldie at that. Today I realise there is someone called Dave Campbell that has an official 22 seconds average. It will be really hard to beat that, but I'll try anyway.



Nice average! I'm still not back to my old speed but I did an Ao100 today which was 23.91.

I also got my first sub-6 Ao100 on Pyra - 5.88

Most important today was my* first sub-10 single *which has taken forever... damn you 2017!

*Date Days Time*
23/10/2015 - 13.03
18/12/2015 56 12.70
24/01/2016 37 11.60
28/02/2016 35 10.56
10/02/2018 713 10.46
22/05/2018 101 10.25
05/06/2018 14 10.20
02/10/2018 119 9.86


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## openseas (Oct 2, 2018)

Logiqx said:


> Most important today was my* first sub-10 single *which has taken forever... damn you 2017!



@Logiqx / Huuuuuuuuge congrats!!!!! Amazing!!!!!!


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## JohnnyReggae (Oct 3, 2018)

Logiqx said:


> Most important today was my* first sub-10 single *which has taken forever... damn you 2017!
> 
> 02/10/2018 119 9.86


Awesome well done !! Sub 10's are still very rare for me having only had 4 so far. My first was an amazing feeling though. Do you have a reconstruction of your solve. I gave the scramble a go and sucked with a 16  I clearly chose the slower way to solve that


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## Logiqx (Oct 3, 2018)

JohnnyReggae said:


> Awesome well done !! Sub 10's are still very rare for me having only had 4 so far. My first was an amazing feeling though. Do you have a reconstruction of your solve. I gave the scramble a go and sucked with a 16  I clearly chose the slower way to solve that



No luck re-constructing other than the scramble / cross solution. I think I might have done something to preserve some pairs but I haven't figured it out in slow motion. My mind is now too contaminated to try any more times!

I did the white cross (6 moves iirc) and I think I had 2 or 3 easy pairs followed by an OLL skip and Y-Perm.


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## CLL Smooth (Oct 3, 2018)

My five year old solved a three move scramble the other day. I was proud


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## openseas (Oct 4, 2018)

Just trying to leave a brief status update (not many comments these days :-()

I'm trying to cut memo time, forcing not to review. After one week of efforts, cut down to 40s-ish memo, 20~30% success rate. In the beginning, most of times forgot corners (CEEC sequence) but seems getting better. PB memo is 28s.

Overall PB is still 1min-ish but getting more frequent 1:10-20 success, fails are mostly flips/twists.


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## Logiqx (Oct 4, 2018)

Logiqx said:


> I did the white cross (6 moves iirc) and I think I had 2 or 3 easy pairs followed by an OLL skip and Y-Perm.



I was pondering the move count today and a 6 move cross, 18-24 move F2L, 19 move PLL (including pre and post AUF) totals 
between 53-59 moves.

So it averaged somewhere between 5.4 and 6.0 TPS. It was probably more like 4 TPS up to PLL then 10 TPS for the PLL.


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## mark49152 (Oct 4, 2018)

Logiqx said:


> I was pondering the move count today and a 6 move cross, 18-24 move F2L, 19 move PLL (including pre and post AUF) totals
> between 53-59 moves.
> 
> So it averaged somewhere between 5.4 and 6.0 TPS. It was probably more like 4 TPS up to PLL then 10 TPS for the PLL.


Unless I'm scrambling it wrong, I get a 4 move white cross. What was your 6 move solution?


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## SpartanSailor (Oct 4, 2018)

openseas said:


> Just trying to leave a brief status update (not many comments these days :-()
> 
> I'm trying to cut memo time, forcing not to review. After one week of efforts, cut down to 40s-ish memo, 20~30% success rate. In the beginning, most of times forgot corners (CEEC sequence) but seems getting better. PB memo is 28s.
> 
> Overall PB is still 1min-ish but getting more frequent 1:10-20 success, fails are mostly flips/twists.


Definitely a little more quiet... I returned to school this semester and have a full course load (4 courses = full time student) in addition to my already full time job. Add in the rest of life... and I can barely do enough to only slow the regression of speed in essentially every event. Oh well, I did just get a PB average/mean for the 3BLD event in the weekly comp. I think only one other week in all of 2018 have I been successful on all three attempts. The first two were....decent. Then I took my time for the last one and did extra review. It worked. Otherwise, back to studying.


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## CLL Smooth (Oct 4, 2018)

muchacho said:


> I've been practicing OH to try to be the best oldie at that. Today I realise there is someone called Dave Campbell that has an official 22 seconds average. It will be really hard to beat that, but I'll try anyway.


Pretty soon I’ll be another name on that list to contend with. If I can make it to some competitions next year.


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## Old Tom (Oct 4, 2018)

openseas said:


> Just trying to leave a brief status update (not many comments these days :-()
> 
> I'm trying to cut memo time, forcing not to review. After one week of efforts, cut down to 40s-ish memo, 20~30% success rate. In the beginning, most of times forgot corners (CEEC sequence) but seems getting better. PB memo is 28s.
> 
> Overall PB is still 1min-ish but getting more frequent 1:10-20 success, fails are mostly flips/twists.



Status update from someone who is way slower: Still working on getting consistent, not worrying about time. Drilling on corners and edges separately. Corners are really good, 75-80% success rate, and are now easy to do and nearly automatic, except some of the setups and especially the un-setups can require a pause to think. Edges are harder, below 50%, and locatiing the available spots for new cycles is giving me fits, often have to completely re-trace.

Working hard on memo routine; this keeps evolving, which is fine for now. Right now experimenting with tracing four stickers quickly, then creating a two-pair (4-letter) image. I find that the 3rd and 4th letters often help with creating the first pair, and the resulting image becomes stronger. Corners, especially, can go really fast that way. However, when a new cycle intrudes in the middle of that, it really throws me off.

Pretty soon will start timing. I might get to ten minutes, or not. Not gonna stress about that. (Yet.)


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## Old Tom (Oct 4, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> Definitely a little more quiet... I returned to school this semester and have a full course load (4 courses = full time student) in addition to my already full time job. Add in the rest of life... and I can barely do enough to only slow the regression of speed in essentially every event. Oh well, I did just get a PB average/mean for the 3BLD event in the weekly comp. I think only one other week in all of 2018 have I been successful on all three attempts. The first two were....decent. Then I took my time for the last one and did extra review. It worked. Otherwise, back to studying.



Word of encouragement from a guy who was in grad school, full-time job, four young kids at home: my adviser had the best advice for all that: "Tired is Happy", he said. I survived and you will too. Do take time out to cube though!


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## SpartanSailor (Oct 4, 2018)

Old Tom said:


> Word of encouragement from a guy who was in grad school, full-time job, four young kids at home: my adviser had the best advice for all that: "Tired is Happy", he said. I survived and you will too. Do take time out to cube though!


Good advice... I tend to keep at least one 3x3 and 4x4 with me. I’ll take it out to practice from time to time. Waiting before class I just got an okay practice session.


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## Sergey (Oct 5, 2018)

mark49152 said:


> Unless I'm scrambling it wrong, I get a 4 move white cross. What was your 6 move solution?


May you show your white cross solution? For the scramble F2 D F' R2 U' F R' B2 L D' L2 U2 B' U2 D2 B' U2 R2 F' B' U2 my white cross is 6 moves (z2 y2) D' L2 R F R2 D'


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## xyzzy (Oct 5, 2018)

Logiqx said:


> No luck re-constructing other than the scramble / cross solution. I think I might have done something to preserve some pairs but I haven't figured it out in slow motion. My mind is now too contaminated to try any more times!
> 
> I did the white cross (6 moves iirc) and I think I had 2 or 3 easy pairs followed by an OLL skip and Y-Perm.


Random guess:

/* Scramble */
F2 D F' R2 U' F R' B2 L D' L2 U2 B' U2 D2 B' U2 R2 F' B' U2

/* Solve */
x2 y // inspection
R F D2 U L2 R2 // cross
y U R U' R' // first slot
y' U2 L U' L' // second slot
U2 L' U L // third slot
y' U2 R' U2 R U2 R' U' R U R' U R // WV
U F R U' R' U' R U R' F' R U R' U' R' F R F' U' // PLL

// View at alg.cubing.net

(I don't know if you know the specific Winter variation case in this "reconstruction"; if you don't, then this clearly can't be the real reconstruction, but it's still funny to see three essentially free pairs.)


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## mark49152 (Oct 5, 2018)

Sergey said:


> May you show your white cross solution? For the scramble F2 D F' R2 U' F R' B2 L D' L2 U2 B' U2 D2 B' U2 R2 F' B' U2 my white cross is 6 moves (z2 y2) D' L2 R F R2 D'


I am indeed scrambling wrong - actually the wrong scramble. I was doing the one off the screenshot, but I guess that's already been regenerated .


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## Logiqx (Oct 5, 2018)

xyzzy said:


> Random guess:
> (I don't know if you know the specific Winter variation case in this "reconstruction"; if you don't, then this clearly can't be the real reconstruction, but it's still funny to see three essentially free pairs.)



Ah... I have it now.

I'm 99% sure this was my solution. The cross, first pair, last pair and LL are definitely the same. I also have a recollection of solving pairs 2 and 3 in this manner. Solving "malformed" F2L pairs to the last 3 slots meant that I didn't really have to look for any edges.

/* Scramble */
F2 D F' R2 U' F R' B2 L D' L2 U2 B' U2 D2 B' U2 R2 F' B' U2

/* Solve */
z2 y' // inspection
R F U' R2 L2 D2 // cross
U' y' L U' L' // first slot
U L' U L U R' U' R // second slot
U L' U L U2 y' R' U' R // third slot
R U2 R' U' R U R' // fourth slot
F R U' R' U' R U R' F' R U R' U' R' F R F' U2 // PLL

9.82 seconds, 51 HTM = 5.2 TPS

Reconstruction on alg.cubing.net


----------



## muchacho (Oct 6, 2018)

Trying to close the gap, but the gap is quite big.

Mo100: 24.839 (previous was 24.970 from 3 months ago)
Ao100: 24.579 (was 24.885 from 3 months ago)



Spoiler



16733 Oct 6, 2018 3:30:34 PM 00:23.610 F2 L2 B2 U2 F2 U R2 D' F2 L2 U' F U L' B F D R F2 U2 R
16732 Oct 6, 2018 3:29:50 PM 00:29.025 U B2 D B2 U B2 L2 D B2 D L2 B L U L' D F2 D' R2 L'
16731 Oct 6, 2018 3:29:05 PM 00:25.464 U2 B2 U R2 B2 L2 B2 L2 D' B2 L B' U L2 D' R' D L2 F2 D2
16730 Oct 6, 2018 3:28:22 PM 00:21.365 R2 L2 B2 U R2 U2 F2 D U2 L2 U2 L' U2 F D2 B' L2 F D R L' D
16729 Oct 6, 2018 3:27:33 PM 00:30.082 B2 R2 F2 R2 U' R2 D' R2 D' U B' U F2 U R' D F2 L D B2 D'
16728 Oct 6, 2018 3:26:38 PM 00:25.622 F2 L2 U R2 D2 U' L2 B2 D' R2 B2 R' L2 D U R' U' L F U' B'
16727 Oct 6, 2018 3:25:46 PM 00:25.419 R2 U2 R2 F2 U' F2 D L2 D R' U' L' B' U B' L' F' U' R' L'
16726 Oct 6, 2018 3:25:02 PM 00:22.069 B2 F2 U' F2 R2 D2 B2 R2 F2 U' R2 F U' R D' F U R' D' L' U2
16725 Oct 6, 2018 3:24:24 PM 00:22.625 B2 U' R2 B2 D2 R2 U R2 L2 F2 U2 F R' D2 B L B U' F' R U
16724 Oct 6, 2018 3:23:39 PM 00:20.444 U2 B2 L2 D' R2 F2 U' L2 U' L2 B2 R F' D' U' R2 D2 R U2 F' R' U'
16723 Oct 6, 2018 3:22:57 PM 00:23.949 U R2 F2 L2 U B2 D' F2 D R2 D2 R D R B D' B L2 D2 R F' U2
16722 Oct 6, 2018 3:22:13 PM 00:22.918 B2 L2 D2 B2 D' R2 U' R2 D' B2 U R' B D L' F L' D' B' F' L2 U2
16721 Oct 6, 2018 3:21:29 PM 00:23.642 D2 B2 L2 U L2 U' B2 F2 U' B2 U2 B' D U2 R' F' R2 D' U L F2 D
16720 Oct 6, 2018 3:20:46 PM 00:20.830 F2 R2 B2 U2 B2 D' U2 R2 U F2 D' B' L B2 F' U2 R' U' L2 B2 D' U'
16719 Oct 6, 2018 3:20:01 PM 00:23.080 L2 U' F2 R2 U F2 U2 L2 D' F2 L2 F' R2 F2 D' R' U2 R U
16718 Oct 6, 2018 3:19:19 PM 00:21.527 R2 U2 R2 L2 B2 R2 U B2 U F2 U' L' F2 L' F' L U' B' U F' U2
16717 Oct 6, 2018 3:18:37 PM 00:21.465 L2 U' R2 D' R2 L2 B2 D2 U2 R2 B' L' U B' F D2 R' L F' L' U
16716 Oct 6, 2018 3:17:54 PM 00:26.829 B2 F2 R2 F2 U L2 D' R2 U L2 U L U B' R2 B2 R D' B' U L2 U2
16715 Oct 6, 2018 3:16:53 PM 00:39.517 D2 L2 B2 D L2 U L2 B2 R2 F2 L2 B U L' U L2 D2 B2 F R2 U2
16714 Oct 6, 2018 3:16:08 PM 00:23.081 U B2 U2 F2 U B2 U' L2 B2 F2 U2 R' B' F2 U' R' U R L U' R
16713 Oct 6, 2018 3:15:27 PM 00:21.072 D' B2 R2 D' B2 U' L2 U L2 F2 R2 B' D' B' R' L' B F2 R' U' R U'
16712 Oct 6, 2018 3:14:42 PM 00:25.375 U' F2 R2 B2 D F2 U2 F2 U R2 D' F' R D2 F2 D2 B' D F U2 R U
16711 Oct 6, 2018 3:12:49 PM 00:22.819 B2 U L2 D' R2 U' R2 U' F2 R2 D2 R' B2 L' F U F' U' R2 B' D2 U'
16710 Oct 6, 2018 3:11:59 PM 00:24.932 D' R2 L2 U L2 D2 F2 L2 D2 B2 U' B L2 U B' F' U' L B2 U B U2
16709 Oct 6, 2018 3:11:09 PM 00:25.566 B2 D2 F2 L2 B2 L2 F2 L2 D B2 U F R' D B' R2 U B' U2 L' D U
16708 Oct 6, 2018 3:10:22 PM 00:28.522 L2 D' R2 L2 D' L2 B2 U' R2 D' B2 L U2 B F' D2 R' D' B2 U' L'
16707 Oct 6, 2018 3:09:36 PM 00:21.111 F2 U2 B2 D2 U' R2 B2 U L2 F2 D L' D B U B F U2 R' L' B2 D
16706 Oct 6, 2018 3:08:51 PM 00:22.691 F2 D' F2 U2 B2 F2 R2 D2 U B2 F2 L F D R' F2 R' B D F R'
16705 Oct 6, 2018 3:08:09 PM 00:26.014 D F2 R2 L2 D2 U' F2 R2 D2 R2 D L B L B R U L B2 F' R U'
16704 Oct 6, 2018 3:07:24 PM 00:22.447 L2 U B2 D R2 B2 U L2 U' L2 U' L U2 R F' U' L2 B L2 D2 R'
16703 Oct 6, 2018 3:06:25 PM 00:23.491 D' R2 D R2 F2 U B2 U' B2 R2 U F' L2 D2 F2 R D' L2 B2 R U'
16702 Oct 6, 2018 3:05:38 PM 00:19.790 U' F2 U' R2 L2 D L2 U' L2 U' B L D2 R' B2 U B2 L U
16701 Oct 6, 2018 3:02:49 PM 00:25.412 R2 D' R2 F2 D2 F2 D F2 U2 F2 U' B' F R' F2 D B' R2 D2 R D' L'
16700 Oct 6, 2018 3:01:52 PM 00:23.323 R2 B2 R2 D' R2 D2 U' B2 D' R2 U F' L' D' R F R2 F2 L2 U' L D2
16699 Oct 6, 2018 2:59:58 PM 00:21.914 D R2 F2 D' R2 F2 U R2 D2 B2 D' F L' U' R2 B2 F' R D B L U'
16698 Oct 6, 2018 2:59:13 PM 00:24.040 R2 D' B2 U' L2 F2 R2 U' F2 D' F2 R D F' L2 F' D' F U R B2 D2
16697 Oct 6, 2018 2:58:27 PM 00:23.062 L2 B2 D B2 F2 U' L2 B2 D B2 F2 L' B2 F U' B R F R' D' F
16696 Oct 6, 2018 2:57:21 PM 00:26.942 U F2 D2 U' L2 D R2 B2 L2 D2 B2 L' D2 U B L2 D' B2 R2 D' F' L'
16695 Oct 6, 2018 2:56:17 PM 00:24.405 B2 D F2 U' R2 B2 D2 U' L2 B L' U2 B' R' L2 D2 U R U
16694 Oct 6, 2018 2:55:34 PM 00:18.807 R2 U' L2 B2 U2 L2 U' B2 U' L2 U R' L' F' L' F' R' D2 B' D
16693 Oct 6, 2018 2:54:48 PM 00:23.439 D2 F2 R2 F2 U F2 R2 L2 F2 L2 D F' B2 L F2 R' B L2 F U2 R' D'
16692 Oct 6, 2018 2:53:56 PM 00:20.961 U B2 U2 R2 B2 D' R2 D' L2 U' F L U' F2 D' R' D R' B U'
16691 Oct 6, 2018 2:53:02 PM 00:21.598 U2 F2 R2 U2 B2 D R2 B2 F2 L2 U' L' F' L F2 D R D2 B' U' B' D'
16690 Oct 6, 2018 2:51:42 PM 00:27.279 U B2 R2 U' F2 D' F2 L2 U2 R2 D2 L D' B' R2 F2 D' R' D2 F L' U
16689 Oct 6, 2018 2:50:49 PM 00:21.582 D2 B2 U L2 D F2 U B2 U' F2 U F' L' B D R F' U' B' D' U
16688 Oct 6, 2018 2:50:07 PM 00:26.490 R2 L2 D L2 D2 R2 L2 B2 U' R2 U' L' U' B2 D' F' U B' U' R2 F2
16687 Oct 6, 2018 2:49:13 PM 00:21.981 R2 U' F2 D R2 U2 B2 D2 B2 L2 B' D2 R' U L B R B2 R' U B'
16686 Oct 6, 2018 2:48:27 PM 00:28.168 U' L2 U F2 U' R2 D B2 L2 F2 U2 F' L D U2 R F L' D2 B L U
16685 Oct 6, 2018 2:47:31 PM 00:27.987 D B2 D' R2 D' B2 F2 R2 D2 R2 D' L D F' U2 B R L U' R B2
16684 Oct 6, 2018 2:46:39 PM 00:27.826 R2 B2 D U2 L2 B2 U F2 L2 F2 D2 F' U' F2 R F2 U2 F D L B U
16683 Oct 6, 2018 2:45:45 PM 00:28.082 B2 D L2 U B2 F2 D R2 B2 R2 F D2 R' U L' U R2 F' R' F2
16682 Oct 5, 2018 4:28:59 PM 00:21.625 B2 F2 R2 U B2 U' B2 F2 L2 B2 F2 R U F2 R L B' F' R D R
16681 Oct 5, 2018 4:28:07 PM 00:33.981 B2 D2 B2 D U2 F2 U B2 L2 D2 B R U2 B F2 U2 B L' U2 F'
16680 Oct 5, 2018 4:27:19 PM 00:26.567 L2 F2 D' R2 U B2 D2 B2 L2 U2 R2 F R L' B F D L F2 U' R U'
16679 Oct 5, 2018 4:26:35 PM 00:23.449 F2 U2 R2 B2 D' B2 L2 D' F2 U' F2 R D B' L' B D B' L2 F D2
16678 Oct 5, 2018 4:25:53 PM 00:25.761 B2 R2 B2 L2 U' R2 U2 L2 U2 L2 B D B2 F' U' B R' F2 U' R
16677 Oct 5, 2018 4:24:14 PM 00:22.274 U2 L2 U' R2 D' F2 D L2 F2 D' R U2 F' L' B2 D B F D' L D'
16676 Oct 5, 2018 4:23:31 PM 00:24.540 U' L2 U R2 F2 U2 F2 U2 F2 L2 D2 R' F R B' D2 R D L2 D' L
16675 Oct 5, 2018 4:22:42 PM 00:35.027 D2 B2 D U2 R2 U' B2 U' B2 D2 F2 R U F2 U B D R' D U B U'
16674 Oct 5, 2018 4:21:53 PM 00:28.824 D2 R2 D' L2 F2 D' F2 U2 L2 B2 R2 B R U R B L D R B' U'
16673 Oct 5, 2018 4:20:44 PM 00:26.761 F2 R2 D' U' B2 R2 U' F2 R2 B' R' U' F D' L' D2 U B2 L D'
16672 Oct 5, 2018 4:20:02 PM 00:21.466 D F2 D B2 D' R2 L2 D2 L2 B2 U L' B' F2 L B L2 D' R L F U2
16671 Oct 5, 2018 4:19:13 PM 00:28.068 L2 F2 U' R2 B2 U' R2 U' B2 U L F L D F2 R' L2 U' B2 R U'
16670 Oct 5, 2018 4:18:33 PM 00:21.471 U R2 B2 R2 B2 U2 L2 U' L2 F' D R L' D' R2 F D2 R2 L'
16669 Oct 5, 2018 4:17:10 PM 00:23.829 D' F2 L2 B2 U' R2 D F2 D' U' R2 F' D2 U B' R2 D' R' B2 L B' D'
16668 Oct 5, 2018 4:16:17 PM 00:25.497 D' U' B2 U R2 D F2 R2 F2 D2 L2 B' L F D B L2 D' F2 U2 L D
16667 Oct 5, 2018 4:15:21 PM 00:23.275 L2 F2 R2 D' R2 D' L2 D' F2 R2 U L U' B' F2 L B U R L2 F'
16666 Oct 5, 2018 4:14:32 PM 00:28.818 R2 L2 D F2 L2 D' B2 U' L2 D R2 B' F' L F' D U2 F D' L F' U'
16665 Oct 5, 2018 4:13:50 PM 00:18.118 L2 F2 D' R2 U2 L2 F2 R2 U2 F2 U R L' U B' R2 L' U R2 U' B U2
16664 Oct 5, 2018 4:13:05 PM 00:27.903 F2 U B2 L2 D' U2 F2 R2 F2 R2 U R' L2 F R2 F2 U R' D B' F2 U
16663 Oct 5, 2018 4:12:20 PM 00:22.431 D' B2 D' B2 D' L2 D2 F2 L2 U' F2 L' F U2 L D B2 L' U L B D2
16662 Oct 5, 2018 4:11:45 PM 00:18.070 D' B2 U2 B2 R2 B2 R2 D' R2 L2 F2 L B2 D' R' D' F D2 L2 D B' L
16661 Oct 5, 2018 3:46:28 PM 00:19.563 D B2 U' R2 L2 U' B2 U' F2 L2 U' B' R D2 L' D B R2 L' D2 R2
16660 Oct 5, 2018 3:45:26 PM 00:28.236 R2 F2 U B2 U F2 U' B2 D2 R2 U' F' L B' D R D2 L' B' D2
16659 Oct 5, 2018 3:44:37 PM 00:23.228 L2 D' R2 D F2 L2 F2 U2 R2 D B2 L B2 F D' F' D' R2 F' L2 D
16658 Oct 5, 2018 3:43:52 PM 00:22.924 R2 D' L2 D2 F2 U2 F2 L2 B2 L2 U2 B' U' B' D R' F' D2 U' R2 L'
16657 Oct 5, 2018 3:43:03 PM 00:24.542 B2 L2 D B2 D L2 D R2 U' L2 D2 L' B F' L' B' F D2 R D2 U2
16656 Oct 5, 2018 3:42:00 PM 00:24.180 U' R2 B2 U L2 U' L2 U' B2 D2 R2 F' R' D B2 U' F2 R B2 L2 U2
16655 Oct 5, 2018 3:41:11 PM 00:22.891 B2 U2 B2 D B2 F2 U B2 U' L2 B' F2 D L' U' R' L2 B D2 F U'
16654 Oct 5, 2018 3:40:16 PM 00:20.299 R2 F2 R2 U B2 U' F2 R2 D' B2 U2 B' D2 L2 B' R' U' L' U F R' U2
16653 Oct 5, 2018 3:39:29 PM 00:25.559 B2 D2 L2 U' R2 D F2 U' B2 L2 U' L' U' B2 F U2 L' F2 D F R'
16652 Oct 5, 2018 3:38:26 PM 00:25.433 D' B2 F2 R2 F2 D2 L2 D' F2 R2 D' L D' F2 D B' D R' B' F L'
16651 Oct 5, 2018 3:37:36 PM 00:28.660 F2 D' U' R2 D' B2 U B2 U2 L2 F R B R2 U2 L D' R L D B
16650 Oct 5, 2018 3:36:56 PM 00:18.166 L2 F2 R2 F2 U' F2 D2 B2 U2 L2 U' F D2 R B' F2 D2 R' U' B' U2
16649 Oct 5, 2018 3:36:19 PM 00:18.876 L2 D R2 U' R2 L2 U L2 U2 F2 U2 F' L2 F R' U R D2 B L' U L'
16648 Oct 5, 2018 3:35:10 PM 00:33.362 D' F2 R2 D' R2 U2 F2 R2 U B2 U' B' L' F' U B R D2 U' L' U
16647 Oct 5, 2018 3:34:23 PM 00:27.828 R2 L2 U2 F2 L2 F2 L2 U' R2 L2 D' B U' L U2 F2 L2 B2 F L B
16646 Oct 5, 2018 3:33:33 PM 00:30.030 B2 R2 U B2 D U' B2 F2 L2 D' B' R' F' L2 F2 R L D' F' L2 U
16645 Oct 5, 2018 3:32:48 PM 00:26.171 F2 U F2 R2 B2 D' F2 U R2 U' B2 L' B D2 B' L F2 D' U2 B2
16644 Oct 5, 2018 3:31:58 PM 00:27.500 L2 D' R2 U2 B2 R2 U2 F2 U' L2 U L D2 U F2 R D' F R2 F2 D' L'
16643 Oct 5, 2018 3:31:06 PM 00:25.329 D' L2 U F2 D' R2 D' B2 L2 U' L2 F' D B' L2 D' F' R B D2 L U2
16642 Oct 5, 2018 3:30:22 PM 00:25.727 F2 D L2 D2 R2 D2 B2 D L2 D' R2 B' L' B2 U2 F' D B2 U2 R' D2
16641 Oct 5, 2018 3:29:25 PM 00:35.333 U2 B2 U' R2 F2 L2 F2 D' L2 U' L' D' R2 F2 R B F R L2 B' D'
16640 Oct 5, 2018 3:28:42 PM 00:27.990 +2 L2 U R2 B2 U R2 B2 U2 L2 D2 L2 F' R D' B' D2 L' U2 B2 R D' U
16639 Oct 5, 2018 3:27:54 PM 00:22.591 R2 D L2 D' F2 R2 U' F2 R2 D2 U L B' L2 U' L2 D2 L B2 D' F L
16638 Oct 5, 2018 3:27:00 PM 00:24.912 R2 U' R2 D B2 D2 B2 U' R2 D R2 F R B' F' L' F U' F U' F U'
16637 Oct 5, 2018 3:26:20 PM 00:23.095 F2 U2 F2 U' L2 U R2 U R2 U' B2 L' D2 F' R2 B D' L F2
16636 Oct 5, 2018 3:25:33 PM 00:28.126 D B2 U2 R2 B2 U2 L2 U L2 B2 D2 F B2 R2 U R D L2 D' L2 F2
16635 Oct 5, 2018 3:24:49 PM 00:21.817 D' R2 L2 B2 U L2 B2 U' L2 U2 F U' L' F2 R2 F2 U B' R2 L2 U'
16634 Oct 5, 2018 3:24:02 PM 00:32.162 D' R2 U' F2 U B2 R2 D' B2 U B U F U2 L D2 F' R B' U L' U2


----------



## mafergut (Oct 8, 2018)

muchacho said:


> Trying to close the gap, but the gap is quite big.
> 
> Mo100: 24.839 (previous was 24.970 from 3 months ago)
> Ao100: 24.579 (was 24.885 from 3 months ago)



I know you can! As I said, you use the right solving method to achieve this goal!

By the way, after almost no practise lately since Euro 2018 due to my persisten tendonitis on my left thumb, I did like 30-40 4x4 solves last week. The good thing is that it just took 3-5 solves to get back to my normal times (well, at least close to them), and I got plenty of sub-1min failures (like 5 or 6 solves at 1:01.xx at least, one of them with OLL parity). The bad news is that the day after that my left hand was hurting more so I don't think I'm recovering any time soon.

But, hey! if I can't speed solve I can do other puzzles. I'll soon receive a puzzle I have been waiting for so long, the mf8 elite skewb.


----------



## Logiqx (Oct 10, 2018)

muchacho said:


> Trying to close the gap, but the gap is quite big.
> 
> Mo100: 24.839 (previous was 24.970 from 3 months ago)
> Ao100: 24.579 (was 24.885 from 3 months ago)



Sorry to be a pain but I've finally re-discovered my OH speed from way back in June!

Today provided new PBs of 23.63 Ao100 including a 22.00 Ao12. I was starting to think that I'd never get back to mid-23's globally...

A month-long break hit my times really badly and it's taken 1400 timed solves to claw myself back and get these PBs.


----------



## auienrst (Oct 11, 2018)

Last week, I have received a crazy octahedron (mars), and a bermuda cube (jupiter).

Yesterday I finally did a whole solve of the octahedron without it popping exploding.
On the good side, thanks to the multiple explosions and returns to a solve state, I have been able to find some commutators/cycles more easily. I will attempt a second solve tonight.
That was my first crazy puzzle, and I think I will buy a crazy 3x3 soon. That was very interesting.
Although the turning is awful and the popping is quiiiiiite annoying, I had a lot of fun.

The bermuda is a little bit more impressive… and the last part is hard to figure out for now…


----------



## Mike Hughey (Oct 14, 2018)

I just got a Galaxy V2 magnetic megaminx (just in time for the competition next week). My first average of 5 on it:
2:11.05, 2:13.94, 2:15.90, 2:24.15, 2:15.43 = 2:15.09.

My previous PBs ever anywhere:
2:31.69 avg/5 (done in the Weekly Competition here in 2012)
2:11.28 single (done at US Nationals in 2010)

So um, yeah - new hardware is making a rather incredible difference!

Cutoff at the competition next week is 2:15. I can't believe it - I actually have a chance of making it!


----------



## Old Tom (Oct 15, 2018)

Where is everybody? My excuse is I have been without power four days now, thanks to Hurricane Michael. Fine to do blind solves in the dark, but I need to see to do memo.

But a plus: I discovered I can practice setups/unsetups in the dark, even without a cube.


----------



## rancourt (Oct 15, 2018)

Just arrived here -- hello, Old Tom! I'm in south central Florida, so Michael missed us (just rain bands), but the eye of Irma passed directly over my house, and we had our week without power...no fun at all. Stay safe, stay cool in this unusually warm autumn, and may power return to you soon. 

(Just redid the yellows on my GTS2M so I could distinguish them from the whites in dim, amber household lighting at night...)


----------



## Old Tom (Oct 15, 2018)

rancourt said:


> Just arrived here -- hello, Old Tom! I'm in south central Florida, so Michael missed us (just rain bands), but the eye of Irma passed directly over my house, and we had our week without power...no fun at all. Stay safe, stay cool in this unusually warm autumn, and may power return to you soon.
> 
> (Just redid the yellows on my GTS2M so I could distinguish them from the whites in dim, amber household lighting at night...)



Welcome Rancourt. Yes, the whites and yellows of some cubes are hard to distinguish in low artificial light.


----------



## pglewis (Oct 15, 2018)

Old Tom said:


> Where is everybody? My excuse is I have been without power four days now, thanks to Hurricane Michael. Fine to do blind solves in the dark, but I need to see to do memo.
> 
> But a plus: I discovered I can practice setups/unsetups in the dark, even without a cube.



I think the new Facebook group is one factor. I just moved at the end of last month... granted, it was only from the 2nd floor apartment to the 3rd floor but it was a big interruption anyway. 

Not much news here, mostly just time for maintenance solves to keep from getting too rusty. Been a lot of guitar playing lately and they tend to cut into one another.


----------



## Old Tom (Oct 15, 2018)

pglewis said:


> I think the new Facebook group is one factor. I just moved at the end of last month... granted, it was only from the 2nd floor apartment to the 3rd floor but it was a big interruption anyway.
> 
> Not much news here, mostly just time for maintenance solves to keep from getting too rusty. Been a lot of guitar playing lately and they tend to cut into one another.



Keeping your fingers nimble, one way or another.


----------



## openseas (Oct 15, 2018)

pglewis said:


> I think the new Facebook group is one factor. I just moved at the end of last month... granted, it was only from the 2nd floor apartment to the 3rd floor but it was a big interruption anyway.
> 
> Not much news here, mostly just time for maintenance solves to keep from getting too rusty. Been a lot of guitar playing lately and they tend to cut into one another.



I thought so, too, the new facebook group even though not many posts were there either.

2~3 weeks of "not to review" practice, getting more comfortable at 30~40s memo. Overall times are similar but average & success rate look to be improved slightly. Corner comms are roughly ~90% usage / ~70% drilled. Start to think of edge comms as well.


----------



## SpartanSailor (Oct 16, 2018)

Old Tom said:


> Where is everybody? My excuse is I have been without power four days now, thanks to Hurricane Michael. Fine to do blind solves in the dark, but I need to see to do memo.
> 
> But a plus: I discovered I can practice setups/unsetups in the dark, even without a cube.


I’ve been busy with school and work. I have far less time available for practice and learning new stuff. I’ve been sneaking in some practice occasionally, but have given what very little time I have available for Cubing some 5x5 attention with some relatively decent results. Nothing special, probably just typical improvement from doing it more. Still a long way from making a cutoff at anything local, but enjoying myself all the same.


----------



## Mike Hughey (Oct 16, 2018)

I switched back to AvG edges a few weeks ago because I had a competition coming up (although I'll only be using those for 5x5x5 there - no bigger cubes among the events), and I've been suddenly getting PBs all over the place:

6x6x6 single: 3:41.74
6x6x6 mean of 3: 3:55.70 
6x6x6 avg of 5: 4:01.32
7x7x7 mean of 3: 6:06.06
7x7x7 avg of 5: 6:11.46

All done for the weekly competition this week.

I need to face facts - I'll never be faster with anything else than with AvG. If only I could learn some better fingertricks for it, I might actually get reasonably fast - that's what's really holding me back now with AvG.


----------



## mark49152 (Oct 17, 2018)

Certainly has been a bit quieter here since the FB group started.

Anyway, a brief personal update. Having been pretty busy with the rest of life, I've been trying to use my very limited practice time as judiciously as possible to prepare for UK Championships in 10 days' time. I've spent the last few weeks doing intensive targeted practice on my weakest areas of events I want to do well at, and will now do just full solves for the last few days to bring it all together. Overall I'm not setting my expectations high. Obviously it's going to be much more competitive this year, and I've barely improved since last year.

I've also decided to try to switch to stickerless. Much as I love and prefer the look and feel of black stickered, I'm getting irritated at having to worry about sticker condition and hold some cubes back as "best" now that more stringent checks are applied at comps. With stickerless I will once again be able to do my practice on my comp main. Alas, the new cubes won't arrive in time to break them and get used to them for UKC.


----------



## Old Tom (Oct 18, 2018)

mark49152 said:


> Certainly has been a bit quieter here since the FB group started.
> 
> Anyway, a brief personal update. Having been pretty busy with the rest of life, I've been trying to use my very limited practice time as judiciously as possible to prepare for UK Championships in 10 days' time. I've spent the last few weeks doing intensive targeted practice on my weakest areas of events I want to do well at, and will now do just full solves for the last few days to bring it all together. Overall I'm not setting my expectations high. Obviously it's going to be much more competitive this year, and I've barely improved since last year.
> 
> I've also decided to try to switch to stickerless. Much as I love and prefer the look and feel of black stickered, I'm getting irritated at having to worry about sticker condition and hold some cubes back as "best" now that more stringent checks are applied at comps. With stickerless I will once again be able to do my practice on my comp main. Alas, the new cubes won't arrive in time to break them and get used to them for UKC.



I don’t think the new FB group is having much impact. I joined and not much happening there. Just a slow spell, I suspect. (Including for me: not much progress on my blind quest. New cycles during edge memo are giving me fits. Even wnen trying to focus on that, I get stalled: where are the available spots? Corner cycles are not a problem at all. I realize this will be an individual thing, but tips welcome. The rest of my blinding is going well, steady progress and speed-up.)


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## openseas (Oct 18, 2018)

Old Tom said:


> I don’t think the new FB group is having much impact. I joined and not much happening there. Just a slow spell, I suspect. (Including for me: not much progress on my blind quest. New cycles during edge memo are giving me fits. Even wnen trying to focus on that, I get stalled: where are the available spots? Corner cycles are not a problem at all. I realize this will be an individual thing, but tips welcome. The rest of my blinding is going well, steady progress and speed-up.)



It will be easier if you have a "go-to" spot for a new cycle break. Not just a spot but a list of spots, preferred spot list.
Then, you don't need to search for any empty spot, just target your favorite. If already used, then move to your second favorite and on and on.
The list is better if you decide based on how fluent you are on any specific target (in terms of execution) + U / R / L layers are better but better to avoid M slice targets.


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## mark49152 (Oct 18, 2018)

Old Tom said:


> I don’t think the new FB group is having much impact. I joined and not much happening there.


Number of posts & replies since Monday:-
This thread - 11
FB group - 17


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## Sergey (Oct 18, 2018)

Sergey said:


> The seller answered that he has some note from Yuxin that such defects are normal, easy-peasy.  Glued patch on the flagship cube. Well. Will contact Yuxin directly about this... Interesting, is there any kind of RMA at Yuxin.


Got spare parts from the seller. Still surprised at the quality control by the Yuxin...


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## mafergut (Oct 19, 2018)

auienrst said:


> Last week, I have received a crazy octahedron (mars), and a bermuda cube (jupiter).
> 
> Yesterday I finally did a whole solve of the octahedron without it popping exploding.
> On the good side, thanks to the multiple explosions and returns to a solve state, I have been able to find some commutators/cycles more easily. I will attempt a second solve tonight.
> ...



I have the 8 crazy 333 plus planets and I'm enjoying them a lot. I have solved 6 of them already and done tutorials in my youtube channel (in Spanish sadly) for all of them. Just need to find some time to solve the other two. 100% recommended. Jupiter is very easy, though.


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## mark49152 (Oct 19, 2018)

mark49152 said:


> I've also decided to try to switch to stickerless.


Well, my stickerless puzzles arrived. Question for all those who made the switch - how did it impact your recognition? I am finding my times are just the same. It doesn't seem to have slowed me down at all. However, I am making silly mistakes, like inserting the wrong pairs, and completely mis-recognising OLLs. How long did it take you to adjust? And did it have any impact on your recognition on stickered cubes?


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## pglewis (Oct 19, 2018)

mark49152 said:


> Well, my stickerless puzzles arrived. Question for all those who made the switch - how did it impact your recognition? I am finding my times are just the same. It doesn't seem to have slowed me down at all. However, I am making silly mistakes, like inserting the wrong pairs, and completely mis-recognising OLLs. How long did it take you to adjust? And did it have any impact on your recognition on stickered cubes?



When I made the switch I was still averaging over :40 and it wasn't much impact, in fact it felt like I recognized better on the stickerless after about a week. It'll be interesting to see how the adjustment goes for someone who has spent a lot more time speedsolving on stickered before switching but I'll randomly guess about a week or two before you no longer notice anything weird.


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## Old Tom (Oct 19, 2018)

mark49152 said:


> Well, my stickerless puzzles arrived. Question for all those who made the switch - how did it impact your recognition? I am finding my times are just the same. It doesn't seem to have slowed me down at all. However, I am making silly mistakes, like inserting the wrong pairs, and completely mis-recognising OLLs. How long did it take you to adjust? And did it have any impact on your recognition on stickered cubes?



For a "Slowsolver" like me (we need a new thread for that), took me only a day or two to adapt. I like the clean look, and, for my cube, the GAN 354, I especially like the speed (I'm still slow but a bit less so) and the smaller size (fits my hands really well).


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## mark49152 (Oct 20, 2018)

After a couple of hours, I seem to have pretty much adapted already. My OLL recognition is still a little more hesitant; I think perhaps the high-contrast black outline on a stickered cube helps me to recognise OLL shapes more quickly, especially misoriented pieces. Spotting pieces during F2L or edge pairing seems fine though. 

I'm not sure how my 3BLD memo will be affected, as my 3x3 hasn't arrived yet. 4BLD seems OK but my memo is much slower for that anyway.


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## newtonbase (Oct 20, 2018)

I find it quite easy to get used to stickerless cubes for blind and that other type of solving. I only prefer stickers for the grip they give.

I've just had a proper look at the schedule for the UK Championship and realised that I won't be competing at all on the Sunday. I'm not telling the wife.


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## openseas (Oct 20, 2018)

I found it easier with stickerless in terms of recognition since there is one less color (black or white plastic)


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## h2f (Oct 20, 2018)

I did 4bld today with time 7:20 but first solve was 6:17 off by 2 xcenters. Literally I had no time to pracitce in last month: I do only FMC. I did 15 4bld solves since Tuesday with 1/15 accuracy. I also did ao5 in OH 37.3 but I didnt do any practice for a year or more. 

So I feel very happy about it. http://cubecomps.com/live.php?cid=3635&compid=61


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## mark49152 (Oct 20, 2018)

Nice one Grzegorz, great result, congrats!


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## openseas (Oct 20, 2018)

h2f said:


> I did 4bld today with time 7:20 but first solve was 6:17 off by 2 xcenters. Literally I had no time to pracitce in last month: I do only FMC. I did 15 4bld solves since Tuesday with 1/15 accuracy. I also did ao5 in OH 37.3 but I didnt do any practice for a year or more.
> 
> So I feel very happy about it. http://cubecomps.com/live.php?cid=3635&compid=61



Wow, great! Congrats!


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## SpartanSailor (Oct 20, 2018)

h2f said:


> I did 4bld today with time 7:20 but first solve was 6:17 off by 2 xcenters. Literally I had no time to pracitce in last month: I do only FMC. I did 15 4bld solves since Tuesday with 1/15 accuracy. I also did ao5 in OH 37.3 but I didnt do any practice for a year or more.
> 
> So I feel very happy about it. http://cubecomps.com/live.php?cid=3635&compid=61


Well done!


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## JohnnyReggae (Oct 21, 2018)

mark49152 said:


> After a couple of hours, I seem to have pretty much adapted already. My OLL recognition is still a little more hesitant; I think perhaps the high-contrast black outline on a stickered cube helps me to recognise OLL shapes more quickly, especially misoriented pieces. Spotting pieces during F2L or edge pairing seems fine though.
> 
> I'm not sure how my 3BLD memo will be affected, as my 3x3 hasn't arrived yet. 4BLD seems OK but my memo is much slower for that anyway.


Initially I had the same problems you describe, but they settled quite quickly and recognition actually became easier with stickerless. I find now when I try my stickered cubes that my recognition is off and it takes a few solves to get back into.

For me another plus of stickerless is the feel of the cube on the fingers and secondly the turning feel is different on stickerless vs their stickered counterparts.


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## mark49152 (Oct 21, 2018)

Having spent some more time with them, I've concluded what my problem was with stickerless cubes. Centres, F2L, edge pairing and PLL recognition were all fine. The only thing that gave me persistent trouble was OLL, and that is the only scenario in which we have to recognise more complex patterns/shapes of a single colour, as opposed to recognising pieces or simple patterns of different colours. I think my brain had wired itself to recognise OLLs as spatial arrangements of little squares with black outlines, and was initially thrown on stickerless cubes when the U face pattern looked more like a contiguous block of colour.


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## Mike Hughey (Oct 21, 2018)

I've had a good day. New 5BLD PB in competition, and I even got a mean! Finally!

Edit: I guess I should also mention I came second place to Stanley Chapel, who set a new world record with 3:34!!


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## Old Tom (Oct 21, 2018)

Mike Hughey said:


> I've had a good day. New 5BLD PB in competition, and I even got a mean! Finally!
> 
> Edit: I guess I should also mention I came second place to Stanley Chapel, who set a new world record with 3:34!!



Wow to both you and Chapel!


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## mark49152 (Oct 21, 2018)

Mike Hughey said:


> I've had a good day. New 5BLD PB in competition, and I even got a mean! Finally!
> 
> Edit: I guess I should also mention I came second place to Stanley Chapel, who set a new world record with 3:34!!


Wow Mike, that's a big margin of improvement. And, both 4BLD and 5BLD means too! Not to mention a decent MBLD result. A good day indeed.


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## openseas (Oct 21, 2018)

Mike Hughey said:


> I've had a good day. New 5BLD PB in competition, and I even got a mean! Finally!
> 
> Edit: I guess I should also mention I came second place to Stanley Chapel, who set a new world record with 3:34!!


Congrats!

You just swept the all BLD 2nd place! Big congrats!


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## CLL Smooth (Oct 22, 2018)

mark49152 said:


> Having spent some more time with them, I've concluded what my problem was with stickerless cubes. Centres, F2L, edge pairing and PLL recognition were all fine. The only thing that gave me persistent trouble was OLL, and that is the only scenario in which we have to recognise more complex patterns/shapes of a single colour, as opposed to recognising pieces or simple patterns of different colours. I think my brain had wired itself to recognise OLLs as spatial arrangements of little squares with black outlines, and was initially thrown on stickerless cubes when the U face pattern looked more like a contiguous block of colour.


I had the same problem when I switched. I’d constantly be messing up OLL. I use OLLCP on a large percentage of my OLLs, so i has that to contend with but it was obvious when I switched back and didn’t have the problem. I go back and forth pretty frequently now so it’s not much of a bother.


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## Mike Hughey (Oct 22, 2018)

I'm finally back so I can say more about the day. It started well with 3 4BLD attempts that got better each time - not a PB single or mean, but still quite a respectable result, and a good start to the day.
Then I did feet, and got my first average under the new rules, so now I have an average of 5 instead of just a mean of 3. It still feels weird to me to use hands to inspect. 
Then i did 5x5x5; my first solve was 3 seconds from the cutoff; my second solve was going really fast, but then I somehow forgot one of the last edges algorithms and had to start over. :-( So no average for me there.
Then 3BLD, where I did nothing spectacular, but still a couple of decent solves. The one DNF was a completely scrambled cube that was in the wrong orientation when I finished - I must have misoriented it in the middle.
After lunch came 5BLD, which was fantastic - obviously the highlight of my day! Everything was just clicking for me, and I knew it was going well. My new PB was the second solve - the same one Stanley set the WR on. It was a little easier than normal, with somewhat better centers than average without reorienting, but it wasn't spectacularly easier than normal. Anyway, it's so good to finally get a 5BLD mean; I've wanted one for over a decade! 
Next came megaminx, which was comically heartbreaking - I got a 2:15.21, followed by a 2:15.19. The cutoff was 2:15. !&@*#($*%^
Then came multiBLD - I got 12 of 14. On one of the cubes, I actually fully recalled the corners, then remembered I was supposed to do edges first, so I did those first, then forgot to go back and do the corners. Once I saw it afterwards, I picked it up and closed my eyes and flew through the corners without a pause - I knew it - if only I had remembered to do it! The other one seems to have been a mismemorization - it was off by 3 edges.
Next came Clock. On the second solve, I solved everything pretty fast - would have been fast enough to give me a 16 second average - but then the judge noticed I had solved everything to 3 o'clock. :-( So I had to do a safe solve on the third one when it went badly, so I had a counting 24.
Finally 3BLD round 2. I was honestly fried by this time; I'm happy I got the 1:33. On the last solve I took too long to memorize the edges and so I forgot the corners and gave up. On the first solve, I was rushing and apparently introduced an extra turn somewhere - it was off by 4 edges and 4 corners.

So overall in BLD today I solved 21 out of 26 cubes; not bad! If only I weren't so inaccurate at 3BLD!


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## openseas (Oct 22, 2018)

Mike Hughey said:


> I'm finally back so I can say more about the day. It started well with 3 4BLD attempts that got better each time - not a PB single or mean, but still quite a respectable result, and a good start to the day.
> Then I did feet, and got my first average under the new rules, so now I have an average of 5 instead of just a mean of 3. It still feels weird to me to use hands to inspect.
> Then i did 5x5x5; my first solve was 3 seconds from the cutoff; my second solve was going really fast, but then I somehow forgot one of the last edges algorithms and had to start over. :-( So no average for me there.
> Then 3BLD, where I did nothing spectacular, but still a couple of decent solves. The one DNF was a completely scrambled cube that was in the wrong orientation when I finished - I must have misoriented it in the middle.
> ...



@Mike Hughey / This is amazing! Do you know how rare to have both 4BLD and 5BLD mean in the same competition?
It happened only 46 times (3657 people & rounds) --> 1.2%. I don't know whether I'll ever have a success in 5BLD but definitely it is one of my dream


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## h2f (Oct 22, 2018)

Mike Hughey said:


> I've had a good day. New 5BLD PB in competition, and I even got a mean! Finally!
> 
> Edit: I guess I should also mention I came second place to Stanley Chapel, who set a new world record with 3:34!!


Congrats!


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## mark49152 (Oct 22, 2018)

Great report @Mike Hughey . Now you've set me a new target for 5BLD


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## mafergut (Oct 22, 2018)

Mike Hughey said:


> I'm finally back so I can say more about the day. It started well with 3 4BLD attempts that got better each time - not a PB single or mean, but still quite a respectable result, and a good start to the day.
> Then I did feet, and got my first average under the new rules, so now I have an average of 5 instead of just a mean of 3. It still feels weird to me to use hands to inspect. [...]
> So overall in BLD today I solved 21 out of 26 cubes; not bad! If only I weren't so inaccurate at 3BLD!


Really impressive Mike. Congratulations on a great performance!


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## openseas (Oct 23, 2018)

I've got Gans 356X. For those of you who don't know about 356X, this is stickerless + new GES (same as 356R) + magnets can be swapped easily.
They put the magnets in the dead center of edge side + used a bar called "capsule" with magnets added in the both ends. 356X package includes 3 different strength of magnet capsules and one non-magnet capsule sets.

After playing around GES tensions and magnets, opted to use the weakest combinations but still a wee bit strong. Then, I realized that those magnets inside the capsules can be pushed out easily. Those are not glued, just stuck in the hole of each capsule. 3x2 size of magnet discs were used. So, I replaced them with N35 3x1.5 magnets - voila, this is now my new main.
It has a smooth stable feeling with comfortable magnet alignment. 

The price tag is all time high though but seniors like us can spend a little bit more, right?


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## CLL Smooth (Oct 23, 2018)

openseas said:


> The price tag is all time high though but seniors like us can spend a little bit more, right?


Simply not true


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## mark49152 (Oct 23, 2018)

openseas said:


> The price tag is all time high though but seniors like us can spend a little bit more, right?


Generally nore likely to be true for seniors . But, (i) that's more than I'm prepared to spend on a cube when I'm perfectly happy with what I've already got, and (ii) while some others prefer them, I've never yet felt a GAN cube that I liked.


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## sigalig (Oct 23, 2018)

I just discovered this thread, when do I qualify as an "older cuber" lol (26 at the moment)


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## mark49152 (Oct 23, 2018)

sigalig said:


> I just discovered this thread, when do I qualify as an "older cuber" lol (26 at the moment)


You are more than welcome here


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## Logiqx (Oct 23, 2018)

It's the UK Champs this weekend and it should be the biggest turnout of oldies since UKC 2017. What are your events / goals at the comp?

I only registered for 6 events so that I could practice consistently in the lead up to the competition. As it turns out my schedule took a nosedive last week and practice was non-existent but I've been relieved to discover that my 3x3, OH, Pyra and Skewb times are largely unaffected. I hadn't yet started proper 2x2 or 4x4 practice so I've decided it is pointless setting goals for them with just 4 days remaining.

I don't normally state goals upfront but this time, I've decided to set the bar based on my current Ao1000 in Twisty Timer.

3x3 - 15.x average (rolling Ao1000 is 15.27)
OH - 24.x average (rolling Ao1000 is 23.91)
Pyra - 6.x average (rolling Ao1000 is 5.91)
Skewb - 9.x average (rolling Ao1000 is 8.48)
2x2 - 5.x (not practised so I'm probably not sub-5 anymore)
4x4 - n/a (not practised so I'm probably very inconsistent)

I'd be interested to know what you all have in mind - @Selkie @mark49152 @bubbagrub @newtonbase @Shaky Hands

p.s. I had a crazy OH PB yesterday - Ao50 was 22.74. It's not representative though as today's Ao50 was 23.16 and Ao100 was 23.33.


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## rancourt (Oct 23, 2018)

openseas said:


> 3x2 size of magnet discs were used. So, I replaced them with N35 3x1.5 magnets - voila, this is now my new main.



Oh, nice! The ability to easily drop in custom magnets is really, really attractive...I might just have to nab the 356X too. Thank you!


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## bubbagrub (Oct 23, 2018)

Logiqx said:


> It's the UK Champs this weekend and it should be the biggest turnout of oldies since UKC 2017. What are your events / goals at the comp?
> 
> ...
> 
> ...



Since Euros I've really only been practising FMC... I had hoped I'd aim for a PB average but I think just hoping for a sub-30 single will do. Other than that, I've done almost no practice solves in any other events, apart from the weekly competition on here, and a bit of extra clock practice. I'm hoping I'll get PBs in Clock -- maybe 15ish average. Other than that, catching up with you all will be nice.  Also, my wife and daughter are entering their second comp, so I'm hoping they'll both get a PB or two...


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## mark49152 (Oct 23, 2018)

@Logiqx & all: I've no real goals for UKC. I'm very out of practice and haven't improved much since UKC last year. I'd just like to do well in at least one BLD event, and enjoy the comp whatever happens at the solving table.


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## Old Tom (Oct 24, 2018)

sigalig said:


> I just discovered this thread, when do I qualify as an "older cuber" lol (26 at the moment)



And then just stay until you are 80, like me. But seriously, 26 is old these days. Welcome!


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## h2f (Oct 24, 2018)

Logiqx said:


> It's the UK Champs this weekend and it should be the biggest turnout of oldies since UKC 2017. .



It's a Polish Champs weekend too. I have only a goal to make nice mo3 in FMC - around 30 would be nice, sub 30 would be great. No other goals because I'm in organizers's team.

I hope for a good show.


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## newtonbase (Oct 24, 2018)

Logiqx said:


> It's the UK Champs this weekend and it should be the biggest turnout of oldies since UKC 2017. What are your events / goals at the comp?
> 
> I only registered for 6 events so that I could practice consistently in the lead up to the competition. As it turns out my schedule took a nosedive last week and practice was non-existent but I've been relieved to discover that my 3x3, OH, Pyra and Skewb times are largely unaffected. I hadn't yet started proper 2x2 or 4x4 practice so I've decided it is pointless setting goals for them with just 4 days remaining.
> 
> ...


Due to tight qualifying I'm only registered for 8 events. Crazier than normal home life and the loss of my lunchtime practice area mean I've only practiced 3BLD. 

2x2, skewb and Pyraminx - puzzles still in my case since High Wycombe in April. Alg revision required. No goals. 
3x3 - got PBs last year without much practice so hoping that strategy holds. Lost my best cube though. 
3BLD - my best chance of PB but will only get one round so scramble dependent. If it looks slow I'll go for my first mean. 
4BLD - will go for 2 careful attempts in the 30 mins and cross fingers
5BLD - one attempts since Feb Feb. Might just judge 
FMC - won't be there for this


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## mark49152 (Oct 24, 2018)

Yeah I might just drop 2x2. I haven't solved it since the last comp, am not bothered about it, I'd be wasting competition resources, and the Saturday schedule is crazy anyway.


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## SenorJuan (Oct 24, 2018)

Good luck to all the old'uns at the Stevenage UK competition.
I'm very out of practice, don't even have a decent cube for OH, and haven't tried a proper FMC in ages, so I considered it pointless entering this year. I intend visiting, probably Sat & Sun, to say Hi and see some of the action.
Hope I can find you, it's going to be pretty crowded..

Edit: And I wouldn't pre-qualify for OH anyway .....


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## Logiqx (Oct 24, 2018)

Sounds like the oldies have been struggling to get practice time of late.

It'll be great to see you all anyway!


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## One Wheel (Oct 25, 2018)

Logiqx said:


> Sounds like the oldies have been struggling to get practice time of late.



Very true for me. A crazy spring led to a busy summer and a fall when I can’t seem to find time for all I need to do, let alone leisure activities like cubing. Next spring will be hectic as always, and I’ve set a goal of running a marathon by next fall so summer will be full as well. In between, though, is what’s shaping up to be a fairly relaxed winter. I’m optimistic that I may be able to get a better grasp on 3BLD and maybe even make a stab at 4BLD, in addition to the regular big cubes and feet. I plan to ask this evening if the venue I used for the competition I organized last will be available for another competition the first weekend in February.


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## Old Tom (Oct 25, 2018)

One Wheel said:


> Very true for me. A crazy spring led to a busy summer and a fall when I can’t seem to find time for all I need to do, let alone leisure activities like cubing. Next spring will be hectic as always, and I’ve set a goal of running a marathon by next fall so summer will be full as well. In between, though, is what’s shaping up to be a fairly relaxed winter. I’m optimistic that I may be able to get a better grasp on 3BLD and maybe even make a stab at 4BLD, in addition to the regular big cubes and feet. I plan to ask this evening if the venue I used for the competition I organized last will be available for another competition the first weekend in February.



Running marathons (I ran two, lonnnnnng ago) and cubing may not mix. One of the symptoms of over-training is a bit of brain fog. But go for it.


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## SpartanSailor (Oct 26, 2018)

Old Tom said:


> Running marathons (I ran two, lonnnnnng ago) and cubing may not mix. One of the symptoms of over-training is a bit of brain fog. But go for it.


Interesting that you say this.... I happened to “win” an entry into the Marine Corps Marathon here in Washington, D.C., in the States. I was thinking to take a cube with me to keep me busy while waiting for the start and thought I may do a few solves throughout the race. I’ve actually considered making an attempt to break the Guinness World Record for cubes solved while running a marathon, but there are a LOT of logistical requirements that need a lot of planning a other people to support. That being said, if I can get a photographer to snap a shot of me solving a cube while running one of the largest marathons in the U.S., I might just have to purchase that picture. LOL


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## CLL Smooth (Oct 26, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> I’ve actually considered making an attempt to break the Guinness World Record for cubes solved while running a marathon, but there are a LOT of logistical requirements that need a lot of planning a other people to support.


I was pretty sure Phillip Espinoza set that record pretty high a few years ago. I can’t remember the number but I figured it mostly unattainable by us mere mortals.


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## SpartanSailor (Oct 26, 2018)

CLL Smooth said:


> I was pretty sure Phillip Espinoza set that record pretty high a few years ago. I can’t remember the number but I figured it mostly unattainable by us mere mortals.


That is an interesting point. It used to be a relatively “easy” number if you could run a marathon in the 5 hour limit provided by GWR. I had hear that he set a ridiculous record as well. But the “official” record was recently updated and, although more difficult, was nothing even remotely close to what Philip did. I am wondering if he did his attempt and complied with all the official requirements for witnesses and whatnot... and then properly submitted it. If he had, then at MOST 15 weeks is required for GWR to review the record submission—which leads me to believe he did a remarkable record setting performance WITHOUT the required evidence to verify the attempt. Resulting in NO official WR.... I only say this, because I actually have done some legit research into the matter and noticed that his “record” was not formally recognised by GWR.


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## One Wheel (Oct 26, 2018)

I’ve thought of cubing while running. I’m sure that if you wanted to set a record there wouldn’t be as much competition solving big cubes. I’m sure running would slow down solving more than vice versa, so my thought has been to do 7x7. I average just over 7:00 on 7x7, and between 7:30 and 10:00/mile depending on how far I’m going and how hard I’m pushing.


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## SpartanSailor (Oct 26, 2018)

One Wheel said:


> I’ve thought of cubing while running. I’m sure that if you wanted to set a record there wouldn’t be as much competition solving big cubes. I’m sure running would slow down solving more than vice versa, so my thought has been to do 7x7. I average just over 7:00 on 7x7, and between 7:30 and 10:00/mile depending on how far I’m going and how hard I’m pushing.


There are no official WR for running while cubing larger cubes than 3x3. I think the logistics to supply qualifying “scrambled” cubes would be difficult for something like 7x7. You would need to have some sort of Subject Matter Expert (SME) verify that the cubes were legitimately scrambled and that YOU had not seen any of the scrambles prior to the start of the attempt. Avoiding all potential conflicts of interest—such as family/friends doing the scrambles—you would need at least two technical experts to witness the event AND the conduct of the scrambles to verify the met the GWR requirement. Again... this is a logistics matter... but there you have it, right? Doing something that is VERIFIABLE and REPEATABLE to some standard that is RECORD WORTHY.

But... if you’re serious, I say, “GO FOR IT!” 

What have you to loose? It’ll be fun no matter what. And if you’re successful, you will set a Guiness WR! That would be pretty amazing no matter what.


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## One Wheel (Oct 26, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> There are no official WR for running while cubing larger cubes than 3x3. I think the logistics to supply qualifying “scrambled” cubes would be difficult for something like 7x7. You would need to have some sort of Subject Matter Expert (SME) verify that the cubes were legitimately scrambled and that YOU had not seen any of the scrambles prior to the start of the attempt. Avoiding all potential conflicts of interest—such as family/friends doing the scrambles—you would need at least two technical experts to witness the event AND the conduct of the scrambles to verify the met the GWR requirement. Again... this is a logistics matter... but there you have it, right? Doing something that is VERIFIABLE and REPEATABLE to some standard that is RECORD WORTHY.


 Actually at my speed it might not be all that hard. Roughly 1 cube/mile, I wouldn’t want to run solving a $70 puzzle anyway. It would cost around $350 to get 30 budget 7x7s, one person could scramble them and keep possession of them, in bags of 3-4. Trade bags at water stations. Even if somebody ran 5 hours and averaged 3:00 that would only be $1,000-1,100 worth of puzzles.


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## SpartanSailor (Oct 26, 2018)

One Wheel said:


> Actually at my speed it might not be all that hard. Roughly 1 cube/mile, I wouldn’t want to run solving a $70 puzzle anyway. It would cost around $350 to get 30 budget 7x7s, one person could scramble them and keep possession of them, in bags of 3-4. Trade bags at water stations. Even if somebody ran 5 hours and averaged 3:00 that would only be $1,000-1,100 worth of puzzles.



Keep in mind that if someone can actually scramble a 7x7 with any ability at all, they are likely able to scramble it faster than you can solve it. So, maybe have 3-4 of those 7x7s handy and after you solve one, have someone begin scrambling.... then, by the time you need a “5th” cube, the first is already re-scrambled. But you have a good concept and recognize the need for multiple cubes AND some method to exchange them on a regular basis. So, it might be a “reasonable” standard for a GWR if you could solve 26 such 7x7s in a marathon....


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## One Wheel (Oct 26, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> Keep in mind that if someone can actually scramble a 7x7 with any ability at all, they are likely able to scramble it faster than you can solve it. So, maybe have 3-4 of those 7x7s handy and after you solve one, have someone begin scrambling.... then, by the time you need a “5th” cube, the first is already re-scrambled. But you have a good concept and recognize the need for multiple cubes AND some method to exchange them on a regular basis. So, it might be a “reasonable” standard for a GWR if you could solve 26 such 7x7s in a marathon....


I think I misread your post. There need to be 2 witnesses to meet GWR’s requirements? I thought you meant there would have to be one to scramble and another to hand them off. I was trying to simplify that. 

As to being serious, as far as I’m concerned I’ll get the marathon out of the way first, then think about how to make it harder.


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## SpartanSailor (Oct 26, 2018)

One Wheel said:


> I think I misread your post. There need to be 2 witnesses to meet GWR’s requirements? I thought you meant there would have to be one to scramble and another to hand them off. I was trying to simplify that.
> 
> As to being serious, as far as I’m concerned I’ll get the marathon out of the way first, then think about how to make it harder.


Witnesses can perform more than one role... but certainly try to “enjoy” that marathon at least once before solving 7x7s whilst doing so! Lol. If able, I’d happily help out when you go for a WR marathon solving 7x7s!


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## JohnnyReggae (Oct 26, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> Interesting that you say this.... I happened to “win” an entry into the Marine Corps Marathon here in Washington, D.C., in the States. I was thinking to take a cube with me to keep me busy while waiting for the start and thought I may do a few solves throughout the race. I’ve actually considered making an attempt to break the Guinness World Record for cubes solved while running a marathon, but there are a LOT of logistical requirements that need a lot of planning a other people to support. That being said, if I can get a photographer to snap a shot of me solving a cube while running one of the largest marathons in the U.S., I might just have to purchase that picture. LOL


Interesting idea... Not sure what you would call it, Cubling ...  So one of my other hobbies is juggling and you can juggle while running/jogging and it is called joggling. The idea is to constantly juggle 3 balls while you are running. At least with joggling you don't require any 3rd parties to do anything for you.


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## SpartanSailor (Oct 26, 2018)

JohnnyReggae said:


> Interesting idea... Not sure what you would call it, Cubling ...  So one of my other hobbies is juggling and you can juggle while running/jogging and it is called joggling. The idea is to constantly juggle 3 balls while you are running. At least with joggling you don't require any 3rd parties to do anything for you.


I like to juggle as well! And have (when I was much younger) been seen joggling around my neighbourhood. Lol


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## JohnnyReggae (Oct 26, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> I like to juggle as well! And have (when I was much younger) been seen joggling around my neighbourhood. Lol


I wasn't much into joggling, but I did enjoy juggling while riding my unicycle  .... sadly I haven't been doing much mountain uni lately.


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## SpartanSailor (Oct 26, 2018)

JohnnyReggae said:


> I wasn't much into joggling, but I did enjoy juggling while riding my unicycle  .... sadly I haven't been doing much mountain uni lately.


Seriously?!? That’s amazing!


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## Logiqx (Oct 26, 2018)

JohnnyReggae said:


> Interesting idea... Not sure what you would call it, Cubling ...  So one of my other hobbies is juggling and you can juggle while running/jogging and it is called joggling. The idea is to constantly juggle 3 balls while you are running. At least with joggling you don't require any 3rd parties to do anything for you.



I remember looking at the joggling world record(s) for 100m, 200m, 400m when athletics was my main hobby and I was also a keen juggler. The 400m joggling world record was 56.06s and I thought it was quite beatable since my 400m time was typically around 49-50s and my 400m hurdles time was around 55-56s. I didn't see juggling as particularly difficult over 400m... certainly less so than dealing with a hurdle every 35m.

I never tried joggling at the time which was almost 20 years ago, I doubt I could even run 400m in under a minute nowadays so I'm not going to try it any time soon!

p.s. Yup. I used to do the juggling and unicycle thing as well. lol


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## One Wheel (Oct 26, 2018)

JohnnyReggae said:


> I did enjoy juggling while riding my unicycle



Last I tried I couldn’t juggle and ride at the same time, I flail my arms too much. I think I could do a slow solve, though.


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## Old Tom (Oct 26, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> Interesting that you say this.... I happened to “win” an entry into the Marine Corps Marathon here in Washington, D.C., in the States. I was thinking to take a cube with me to keep me busy while waiting for the start and thought I may do a few solves throughout the race. I’ve actually considered making an attempt to break the Guinness World Record for cubes solved while running a marathon, but there are a LOT of logistical requirements that need a lot of planning a other people to support. That being said, if I can get a photographer to snap a shot of me solving a cube while running one of the largest marathons in the U.S., I might just have to purchase that picture. LOL



The Marine Marathon was the one I ran, back in ‘78 and ‘79. Have you actually tried running and cubing at the same time? Unless it was OH, would be hard to maintain a decent pace and stride. The logistics of receiving and handing off the cubes would be difficult also. It is a very crowded race, both runners and spectators. Perhaps a backpack with numbered compartments, and then a limited number of pre-arranged “swap points”. But getting your support team to those points would be tough!

The way to do it for GWR would be on a track, just yourself and maybe a few others. Vastly simpler logistics.


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## openseas (Oct 26, 2018)

@h2f / Congrats on your 3BLD PB (I guess official PB)!

Good luck to all folks competing this weekend!


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## pglewis (Oct 26, 2018)

Mike Hughey said:


> I'm finally back so I can say more about the day. It started well with 3 4BLD attempts that got better each time - not a PB single or mean, but still quite a respectable result, and a good start to the day.
> Then I did feet, and got my first average under the new rules, so now I have an average of 5 instead of just a mean of 3. It still feels weird to me to use hands to inspect.
> Then i did 5x5x5; my first solve was 3 seconds from the cutoff; my second solve was going really fast, but then I somehow forgot one of the last edges algorithms and had to start over. :-( So no average for me there.
> Then 3BLD, where I did nothing spectacular, but still a couple of decent solves. The one DNF was a completely scrambled cube that was in the wrong orientation when I finished - I must have misoriented it in the middle.
> ...



Great day, Mike! 

Congrats to @h2f on a pile of PBs and good luck to everyone this weekend!


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## mark49152 (Oct 26, 2018)

Wow, Grzegorz, have you been practising hard?  Congrats on an impressive 3BLD PB and a first mean! Now I have another new target


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## h2f (Oct 26, 2018)

Thanks, Mark @mark49152 and Phil, @pglewis. I did around 80 solves since Sunday to remember how to do 3bld. Thats all in last 2 months. After 2nd solve I've decided to go safety in 3rd. 

Have you noticed 2 WRs in FMC single? Kacper Rafalski and Szymon Jeziorski got 19 in FMC. Kacper was sitting next to me. They both did the same solves, both skeletons on inverse - 13 to 3C. Insertion was optimal. They left after 20 minutes. But what happend next was very intresting. Szymon did 28 and Kacper 29 on 2nd. Last scramble had easy beginnig. Szymon got 31 but wrote R' instead of R2 in last few seconds. I found FMC to be very emontional event.


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## mark49152 (Oct 26, 2018)

Just saw your video, Grzegorz @h2f. Nice reaction and I laughed that you nearly fell off your chair . Your memo was fast but your execution looked so slow! How was the scramble?


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## h2f (Oct 27, 2018)

mark49152 said:


> Just saw your video, Grzegorz @h2f. Nice reaction and I laughed that you nearly fell off your chair . Your memo was fast but your execution looked so slow! How was the scramble?



It was close to fall. 

NIce scramble for every blinder in a round. 8 algs, 2 solved edges. 

I know my execution is slow but as I wrote - I didnt practice for a long time and I didnt feel confident.


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## JohnnyReggae (Oct 27, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> Seriously?!? That’s amazing!


I was thinking of doing some OH solves while doing some downhill mountain unicycling, which should be perfectly achievable. Only problem I have is that I do OH with my left hand, but I also hold onto the Uni to stabalise it with my left hand so I need to work around that. Although on some easy trails there is no need to hold onto the Uni.


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## SpartanSailor (Oct 27, 2018)

Did some 3BLD practice today. Really felt rushed... it’s been awhile and I didn’t give myself much of a break in terms of time. I still managed to be in the low-to-mid 3 minute range. But, as would be expected bring forth the DNFs!! 3 in a row. Then switched to the weekly comp and did those three... 2/3 in that stretch so 2/6 on the day. 33% isn’t terrible. And I got a 2:48 in the weekly. I’m pretty pleased with anything sub 3 for the time being. Then, a 4:02. I got mentally stuck on the “S” (or BD) sticker. It was second in the memo and I couldn’t recall the “I” or FU sticker special case for M2. So... I decided to try something. I did the 2-in-1 trick for I/S when paired with a non-M-slice edge. I did the letter swap in my head. So, in stead of S-H, I actually did I-H. And guess what... it WORKED! I was pretty sure it would, but have never tried it before. So, that’s a winner for me on the day.

@JohnnyReggae I’d be seriously blown away if I saw someone riding a unicycle while solving a cube OH! That’s a video just WAITING to be made!


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## Old Tom (Oct 27, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> Did some 3BLD practice today. Really felt rushed... it’s been awhile and I didn’t give myself much of a break in terms of time. I still managed to be in the low-to-mid 3 minute range. But, as would be expected bring forth the DNFs!! 3 in a row. Then switched to the weekly comp and did those three... 2/3 in that stretch so 2/6 on the day. 33% isn’t terrible. And I got a 2:48 in the weekly. I’m pretty pleased with anything sub 3 for the time being. Then, a 4:02. I got mentally stuck on the “S” (or BD) sticker. It was second in the memo and I couldn’t recall the “I” or FU sticker special case for M2. So... I decided to try something. I did the 2-in-1 trick for I/S when paired with a non-M-slice edge. I did the letter swap in my head. So, in stead of S-H, I actually did I-H. And guess what... it WORKED! I was pretty sure it would, but have never tried it before. So, that’s a winner for me on the day.
> 
> @JohnnyReggae I’d be seriously blown away if I saw someone riding a unicycle while solving a cube OH! That’s a video just WAITING to be made!



There is a utube video of a guy juggling and solving three 3x3s while riding a unicycle. A grad student out in Cal. Maybe 2-3 years ago.


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## h2f (Oct 28, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> 33% isn’t terrible.



No! It's ok when you practice. They say 30% acc in 3bld during practice session means it was a good session.

I think using memo techniques in 3bld makes your memory better in a long run. My accuracy in blind events was low for a long time (20-30%), for some reason. I think now is up to around 50%.


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## SpartanSailor (Oct 28, 2018)

h2f said:


> No! It's ok when you practice. They say 30% acc in 3bld during practice session means it was a good session.
> 
> I think using memo techniques in 3bld makes your memory better in a long run. My accuracy in blind events was low for a long time (20-30%), for some reason. I think now is up to around 50%.


I’ll have to find ways to increase my memo speed. Right now, that’s my slowest part. It’s a stretch goal for now, but I’d like to get my memo comfortable under 1:00.


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## openseas (Oct 28, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> I’ll have to find ways to increase my memo speed. Right now, that’s my slowest part. It’s a stretch goal for now, but I’d like to get my memo comfortable under 1:00.



Almost all blders will say that you have to practice + stop reviewing for a faster memo. There is no short cut. More details, though,
1) If you do corner-edge sequence, use images or rooms for corners (for a longer term memo) but switch to Audio for edges.
2) For audio edges, you have to overcome the fear of forgetting stuff. At the end of trace (edges), just don blindfold and start. If it helps, just practice edge only with audio. You'll find it not that difficult after some practices.
3) Regarding practice, two aspects: trace speed + drilling algs. Since you're M2/OP (I guess), drilling means more like spamming tps. (repeating M2 and OP with setups). For trace, you need many many sessions to improve the tracing speed. You may want to dedicate some time (30min or 1 hour) every day. 3min avg means less than 20 session for an hour - the numbers will increase as you keep practicing. Think about your 3x3x3 sessions, how many you have done so far. It takes times.


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## JohnnyReggae (Oct 28, 2018)

Finally managed to beat my longest standing PB ... 3x3 single  It's been 2 years and 2 days since I last broke my 3x3 PB. It did come with a lot of luck though but I will take it anyway. So my new PB is a *massive* 6 hundredth's of a second faster than my previous PB. New PB now stands at 9.51 

Scramble:
F2 D2 F' R2 F' U2 L2 U2 B F2 R' B' L' R2 F' D2 U' L2 D L'

Solution:
z2 // inspection
D2 B' F U' F R' D2 // cross 7
U2 R U R' U y' L' U L // 1st 15
R U' R' U R' U' R // 2nd 22
R U' R' U y' R' U' R // 3rd 29
U' L' U L U' y L U L' // 4th 37
U2 // auf LL-SKIP 38

// = 9.51 @ 4tps


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## mark49152 (Oct 28, 2018)

Had a great time at UKC this weekend. Great to catch up with the oldies as usual - @Shaky Hands, @Selkie, @newtonbase, @Logiqx, @bubbagrub, @speedpicker and @SenorJuan. My results were disappointing but that's unsurprising with my lack of practice, and I'll plan to be better prepared for next year .


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## h2f (Oct 29, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> I’ll have to find ways to increase my memo speed. Right now, that’s my slowest part.



Memo and execution are connected. If you feel comfortable with memo, your execution is faster. If your execution is faster, your memo is shorter because you need it for shorter period of time. Etc. Plus what Jae (@openseas) wrote. What are your splits?


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## mark49152 (Oct 29, 2018)

h2f said:


> Memo and execution are connected. If you feel comfortable with memo, your execution is faster. If your execution is faster, your memo is shorter because you need it for shorter period of time.


That's true, but they can still both benefit from being worked on separately.


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## Logiqx (Oct 29, 2018)

mark49152 said:


> Had a great time at UKC this weekend. Great to catch up with the oldies as usual - @Shaky Hands, @Selkie, @newtonbase, @Logiqx, @bubbagrub, @speedpicker and @SenorJuan. My results were disappointing but that's unsurprising with my lack of practice, and I'll plan to be better prepared for next year .



Yes. Great to see everyone in one place again and I'll add @speedpicker to the over-40's rankings when I run the next refresh.

A quick review against the goals I posted last week...

TL;DR Saturday results were *ok-**ish*. Sunday results were *beyond terrible*. I still enjoyed watching the action on Sunday afternoon!

*3x3* - 15.x average (rolling Ao1000 is 15.27) - *17.28 avg *on Sat / *19.46 avg *on Sun

*OH* - 24.x average (rolling Ao1000 is 23.91) - *28.85 avg *on Sat (counting 35.50 should have been a low-20) / *37.19 avg *on Sun (*global average + 55%*), included counting 55.18!!!

*Pyra* - 6.x average (rolling Ao1000 is 5.91) - *6.89 avg *on Sat (minor PB) / *9.24 avg *on Sun (*global average + 56%*), DNF was a timer-start issue

*Skewb* - 9.x average (rolling Ao1000 is 8.48) - *9.80** avg *on Sat (minor PB) but missed next round by 2 places. Fastest over-40 with a *4.75 single* (nothing extraordinary at the beginning but skipped U/Z/H Perm).

*2x2* - 5.x (just about sub-5 in the lead up to comp) - *Two 13.x solves* ruined the average and knocked me out of round 2

*4x4* - TBC (not practised) - *1:11.20 avg* (decent PB)... somewhat slower than when I used to practice but still five seconds faster than a 2 year old PB. Also included a *1:01.85 single *with OLL parity. Last solve was also 1:03.35 but a counting 1:19 damaged the average.


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## mark49152 (Oct 29, 2018)

mark49152 said:


> @Logiqx & all: I've no real goals for UKC. I'm very out of practice and haven't improved much since UKC last year. I'd just like to do well in at least one BLD event, and enjoy the comp whatever happens at the solving table.


I enjoyed the comp so that goal was met . Here's a quick run down of events.

MBLD: 17/20 was a respectable result and left me 3rd on day 1 (format was bo2). However, day 2 was a mess, only 11/20, and I got pushed down to 4th.

5BLD & 4BLD: Slower than last year but my memo was pretty solid. Sadly 5 of the 6 solves were destroyed by dreadful execution errors, failed fixes, and fumbles. I got a 6:26 success on the final 4BLD but it was 2 minutes off where I should be so not much to cheer me up.

3BLD: A decent 56 in the first round scraped me through to the final where I got 3 DNFs. However, my tactics for the final were to rush memo and go all out for a PB, and I was quite pleased that two of the DNFs were 52 & 54 with memo around 20. Both were execution errors, one of which was a comm done the wrong direction. So I took some encouragement from these being my fastest competition attempts, even if not quite solved .

Sighted: Got my first 3x3 single PB for 2.5 years. Everything else was mediocre.

Now looking forward to Weston in 4 weeks!


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## bubbagrub (Oct 29, 2018)

bubbagrub said:


> Since Euros I've really only been practising FMC... I had hoped I'd aim for a PB average but I think just hoping for a sub-30 single will do. Other than that, I've done almost no practice solves in any other events, apart from the weekly competition on here, and a bit of extra clock practice. I'm hoping I'll get PBs in Clock -- maybe 15ish average. Other than that, catching up with you all will be nice.  Also, my wife and daughter are entering their second comp, so I'm hoping they'll both get a PB or two...



Very nice to see so many of the oldies this past weekend. I ended up missing clock, due to not feeling well enough to stay for it, but otherwise all goals were met. Beth & Erin each got PBs, I got 2 sub-30s in FMC (and a very disappointing 37) and caught up with lots of great people.


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## h2f (Oct 29, 2018)

I've seen 4.59 by Jakub Kipa and it was amazing to be a witness of this.. He also showed me later the reconstruction.


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## Logiqx (Oct 29, 2018)

h2f said:


> I've seen 4.59 by Jakub Kipa and it was amazing to be a witness of this.. He also showed me later the reconstruction.



3x3?


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## h2f (Oct 29, 2018)

Logiqx said:


> 3x3?



Yeah. New ER.


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## SpartanSailor (Oct 30, 2018)

h2f said:


> Memo and execution are connected. If you feel comfortable with memo, your execution is faster. If your execution is faster, your memo is shorter because you need it for shorter period of time. Etc. Plus what Jae (@openseas) wrote. What are your splits?


Good advice from @openseas 
I have taken his advice a couple different times to successful improvement. My splits are pretty even around 1:45 and 1:30-1:45. On average. But if I don’t have any pauses my execution is under a minute. It’s rare that my memo is that fast, however.


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## h2f (Oct 30, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> It’s rare that my memo is that fast, however.



It's only a matter of time when you will be around 2 minutes on average.


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## mark49152 (Oct 30, 2018)

@SpartanSailor: Yes good advice from Jae. Two things I have used to improve my memo speed:-

1) Practise tracing only. Just time how long it takes you to find all the pieces, including cycle breaks, flips and twists, etc. Don't try to memo anything. It's surprising how long this actually takes. Practising it on its own is helpful because you don't tire your memory, and can really focus on tracing faster without being slowed down by memorizing.

2) Rush memo. Set a countdown timer to beep after N seconds. Start memo and when the timer beeps, pull your blindfold down immediately, even if you're not ready. Solve as much of the cube as you can. This is a good way to give yourself a sense of urgency during memo and compel you to work faster.

Anyway, I haven't posted a video for a long time. Here's my MBLD escapades from last weekend.


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## h2f (Oct 30, 2018)

mark49152 said:


> 1) Practise tracing only.



I wish I had done it earlier. I just do it now and it pays off.



mark49152 said:


> Anyway, I haven't posted a video for a long time. Here's my MBLD escapades from last weekend.



Nice!


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## Old Tom (Oct 30, 2018)

mark49152 said:


> @SpartanSailor: Yes good advice from Jae. Two things I have used to improve my memo speed:-
> 
> 1) Practise tracing only. Just time how long it takes you to find all the pieces, including cycle breaks, flips and twists, etc. Don't try to memo anything. It's surprising how long this actually takes. Practising it on its own is helpful because you don't tire your memory, and can really focus on tracing faster without being slowed down by memorizing.
> 
> ...



Ah! But how do I prevent the “sense of urgency” from giving me a bad case of the mental yips? That has been a major problem for me when trying for speed, blind or not. The only approach that is “sort of” working for me is trying to stay calm, not trying to go too fast, staying within my capabilities, while trying to improve those capabilities.

What I’m saying is that a bad case of nerves is my bugaboo.


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## mark49152 (Oct 30, 2018)

Old Tom said:


> Ah! But how do I prevent the “sense of urgency” from giving me a bad case of the mental yips? That has been a major problem for me when trying for speed, blind or not. The only approach that is “sort of” working for me is trying to stay calm, not trying to go too fast, staying within my capabilities, while trying to improve those capabilities.


You deliberately push yourself outside your comfort zone - that's the whole point. Like many forms of training, "no pain, no gain". It doesn't matter if your accuracy suffers for a while. After some practice that pace won't feel so uncomfortable. Eventually it will feel comfortable... and even slow .


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## Old Tom (Oct 30, 2018)

mark49152 said:


> You deliberately push yourself outside your comfort zone - that's the whole point. Like many forms of training, "no pain, no gain". It doesn't matter if your accuracy suffers for a while. After some practice that pace won't feel so uncomfortable. Eventually it will feel comfortable... and even slow .





mark49152 said:


> You deliberately push yourself outside your comfort zone - that's the whole point. Like many forms of training, "no pain, no gain". It doesn't matter if your accuracy suffers for a while. After some practice that pace won't feel so uncomfortable. Eventually it will feel comfortable... and even slow .



That actually makes sense. Thx!


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## mark49152 (Oct 30, 2018)

Old Tom said:


> That actually makes sense. Thx!


Actually it's crucial, and worth stressing again. In my experience, improvement comes in two phases. In the first phase, you're just becoming competent, so learning a decent method and becoming familiar enough with it and the puzzle so that you can turn at a comfortable rate and not pause too much. This phase eventually reaches a plateau where you are solving competently at a comfortable pace. If you just keep solving over and over at this pace, you're not going to improve much further.

To go beyond that, you need to solve faster, and the only way you can get faster beyond your comfortable pace is to push your pace into the uncomfortable zone.

For BLD memo, the same applies. Our memo settles at a comfortable pace, where we can trace comfortably, visualise comfortably, and review as much as we think is necessary. To learn to memo faster, we need to push one or more of those things to be uncomfortable, rather than repeat over and over within our comfort zone.


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## Old Tom (Oct 30, 2018)

G


mark49152 said:


> Actually it's crucial, and worth stressing again. In my experience, improvement comes in two phases. In the first phase, you're just becoming competent, so learning a decent method and becoming familiar enough with it and the puzzle so that you can turn at a comfortable rate and not pause too much. This phase eventually reaches a plateau where you are solving competently at a comfortable pace. If you just keep solving over and over at this pace, you're not going to improve much further.
> 
> To go beyond that, you need to solve faster, and the only way you can get faster beyond your comfortable pace is to push your pace into the uncomfortable zone.
> 
> For BLD memo, the same applies. Our memo settles at a comfortable pace, where we can trace comfortably, visualise comfortably, and review as much as we think is necessary. To learn to memo faster, we need to push one or more of those things to be uncomfortable, rather than repeat over and over within our comfort zone.



Got it!


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## SenorJuan (Oct 30, 2018)

Though I posted this link in another thread, I thought it worth re-posting here as a few of us oldies attended.
Stevenage Comet's report, mostly photo's, on the UK Champs:
http://www.thecomet.net/news/rubik-s-speedcubing-uk-championship-2018-in-stevenage-1-5755952


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## Logiqx (Oct 31, 2018)

I've spent a little big of time making some tweaks to the over 40's rankings.

Details are on the main thread - How fast are the over 40's in competitions?


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## mark49152 (Nov 4, 2018)

This instalment is especially for those of my fellow oldies currently trying to get into 4BLD. Keep at it guys, all the hard work is worth it in the end!


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## SpartanSailor (Nov 4, 2018)

I’m not sure that’s encouraging it otherwise... I’ll say you handle the DNF far better than I would.


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## openseas (Nov 4, 2018)

This 4BLD ended up to be the only success of the day:-(

Didn’t do much practice of 4, 5, MBLD, so, not much to complain but attempts were awfully close. 4BLD sub 10 was nice, long over due but will take it.

5BLD was 2 wing cycles off.

MBLD, first ever 3 attempts, and triple DNF.
5/11, 4/11, 5/11. Each attempt had 2 flips, 2 twists, 1 exe error (like R off in the middle) and one reverse comm.
Time was more promising , 1st attempt was 54min, 2nd was faster, when finished 8 cube memo, 20 mins. So, reviewed a lot & finished 51min but again errors here and there. 3 rd one was even faster but I guess my brain was not strong enough to hold all day BLD + 40 BLD sessions in a day.

Most disappointing thing was of course 3BLD triple DNF. All fails were 1:10~1:20 with one cycle off. Well, maybe next comp to join near 1 club or sub 1 club .

Graham had MBLD NAR, 42/42 in 54min.


----------



## One Wheel (Nov 4, 2018)

mark49152 said:


> This instalment is especially for those of my fellow oldies currently trying to get into 4BLD. Keep at it guys, all the hard work is worth it in the end!


I think I’ve said before that 4BLD is my next big challenge. If we can get a delegate I’m planning on organizing a comp in early February that will include 4BLD. That’s a good incentive. Now I just need to find time to practice.


----------



## muchacho (Nov 4, 2018)

Some (but not much) improvement in OH.

OH Mo100: 24.666 (was 24.839 from last month)
OH Ao100: 24.495 (was 24.579)



Spoiler



17127 Nov 4, 2018 4:55:30 PM 00:20.020 D2 L2 D2 R2 F2 R2 F2 D' B2 L2 U' B D U' L F D' L2 F2 L' F2
17126 Nov 4, 2018 4:54:48 PM 00:22.393 U' F2 D2 R2 D B2 L2 U' R2 U2 B D' R L' U' B' D' R L' B'
17125 Nov 4, 2018 4:54:03 PM 00:21.439 B2 L2 F2 D2 F2 D2 R2 U' R2 D F2 R' B' L2 B' U' B2 F' L' B2 U
17124 Nov 4, 2018 4:53:13 PM 00:24.873 U' R2 U' F2 D' B2 U' F2 U2 L2 U2 B R' F D R L' F R' L2 F' U'
17123 Nov 4, 2018 4:52:30 PM 00:24.565 D F2 L2 U' L2 B2 R2 U2 B2 U' B2 R' B2 F2 L' F D' R' F2 D F'
17122 Nov 4, 2018 4:51:50 PM 00:24.525 U' L2 F2 U2 L2 U' R2 D' F2 L2 U2 B D2 L D2 L B U' B U R'
17121 Nov 4, 2018 4:51:10 PM 00:22.079 F2 U2 R2 U B2 L2 F2 L2 U B2 D' R D U B' R' B2 R' F U' L
17120 Nov 4, 2018 4:50:27 PM 00:25.573 L2 U' R2 U F2 D R2 B2 R2 D U L B R' F' U2 R2 U R2 B2 U2 L'
17119 Nov 4, 2018 4:49:49 PM 00:20.474 U' B2 R2 L2 D' U2 B2 R2 D R2 F B2 R' U2 B F2 R2 B2 U L' U2
17118 Nov 4, 2018 4:49:10 PM 00:19.984 D' L2 F2 D R2 B2 U R2 U2 L2 U' R U B2 R2 L D L B' L2 U2
17117 Nov 4, 2018 4:48:25 PM 00:25.590 F2 D2 B2 U' F2 R2 D' F2 U B2 F2 R' D' L2 U2 B D2 R F' U2 R
17116 Nov 4, 2018 4:47:44 PM 00:23.003 U2 F2 D U2 F2 U R2 B2 R2 U2 L2 B' L' D R' D L' B' U B' D'
17115 Nov 4, 2018 4:47:01 PM 00:23.127 B2 R2 F2 D L2 U' B2 F2 U R2 U R B2 D' B2 D' F D' F D B' D'
17114 Nov 4, 2018 4:46:19 PM 00:19.801 D B2 U' R2 F2 R2 B2 D U2 F R F D2 B' U F D' B' D
17113 Nov 4, 2018 4:44:36 PM 00:21.102 U F2 R2 U' L2 B2 U2 R2 U B2 L' F U' B L U2 L' D B' D' U'
17112 Nov 4, 2018 4:43:50 PM 00:26.732 F2 U2 L2 U' F2 D L2 F2 R2 D2 B2 R F' U2 R2 F2 U B D F U'
17111 Nov 4, 2018 4:43:02 PM 00:30.542 B2 L2 U' F2 U' F2 U2 R2 D B2 U B' L2 U2 B2 R' U' F' L B' L2
17110 Nov 4, 2018 4:41:43 PM 00:24.093 D F2 U2 L2 B2 L2 B2 D B2 U' L F2 U2 B' D2 U' R' B R F'
17109 Nov 4, 2018 4:41:00 PM 00:23.707 D2 L2 D B2 D' B2 L2 B2 U B2 U' R B L' B' D' L' B U F L' U'
17108 Nov 4, 2018 4:40:16 PM 00:24.852 R2 D R2 L2 D2 F2 U' L2 D R2 U B' L' F' U' F' L2 D2 R2 U2 L
17107 Nov 4, 2018 4:39:33 PM 00:24.611 F2 U' R2 U2 B2 D R2 L2 D F2 U' L U L' F' R U2 F' D2 R2 D2
17106 Nov 4, 2018 4:38:50 PM 00:24.189 D' F2 R2 L2 U R2 L2 U L2 D2 U' B' L' D U' B2 R L F' L' B L
17105 Nov 4, 2018 4:38:05 PM 00:27.550 U' B2 L2 U' B2 F2 L2 U B2 D' U B R' B F2 U B2 D' F U2 B2
17104 Nov 4, 2018 4:37:14 PM 00:23.944 U R2 D2 F2 U' B2 U R2 D' R' D2 B' R' F' D U B R F2 L' D2
17103 Nov 4, 2018 4:36:32 PM 00:23.939 F2 D L2 F2 U R2 B2 U R2 D' L D' L2 B2 U R' F' D' F2 R
17102 Nov 4, 2018 4:35:46 PM 00:28.242 D' B2 U' F2 L2 D B2 D F2 R2 L2 F' U' F2 U2 R' L2 B2 U' B2
17101 Nov 4, 2018 4:35:02 PM 00:26.980 L2 F2 D B2 F2 L2 D2 L2 D' B2 D' R' B R' B2 F U' R' D2 B'
17100 Nov 4, 2018 4:34:19 PM 00:24.392 F2 D' F2 D' F2 D2 R2 F2 D B2 L B' R' U' R U2 R2 D U' F U
17099 Nov 4, 2018 4:33:35 PM 00:28.111 F2 R2 L2 D' F2 U L2 D2 R2 L2 U2 R' D2 F U B R D F' R L U2
17098 Nov 4, 2018 4:32:52 PM 00:22.130 D2 B2 R2 U' L2 B2 U' B2 D' R2 D F D B R' L' D R2 F2 L B U'
17097 Nov 4, 2018 4:32:10 PM 00:23.900 D' U' R2 B2 D B2 L2 D' R2 L2 B' R2 F' D' L B R2 B R B U2 F
17096 Nov 4, 2018 4:31:07 PM 00:39.690 R2 L2 D' U L2 D' R2 F2 L2 U L2 F' L2 D R D2 L2 B' L' U' R2 U2
17095 Nov 4, 2018 4:30:22 PM 00:26.453 D R2 D' L2 B2 D2 F2 L2 U' F2 D B R U R2 B R2 L' F2 R D'
17094 Nov 4, 2018 4:29:39 PM 00:25.898 F2 U B2 D2 F2 U F2 L2 U F2 D2 F' U R B F2 D2 R U L2 D'
17093 Nov 4, 2018 4:28:53 PM 00:22.673 F2 D' L2 D' L2 U' L2 U2 R2 B2 U' F L U' F D' U2 L' U2 B D'
17092 Nov 4, 2018 4:28:08 PM 00:27.556 U' L2 U' R2 B2 D2 U2 R2 D B2 U' F U' B' R L2 F' R D' R2 B'
17091 Nov 4, 2018 4:27:22 PM 00:22.526 U' R2 U' F2 U R2 D2 B2 L2 D2 L' D' B F2 U' B2 R' F2 R' L2 U2
17090 Nov 4, 2018 4:26:25 PM 00:27.254 D' B2 R2 F2 U B2 U2 R2 U' F2 U' F R L' D' L2 B' D R F2 L
17089 Nov 4, 2018 4:25:44 PM 00:24.500 L2 U2 B2 F2 R2 U' R2 U' L2 D2 F2 R' U L' D' L2 B' L' D L' F2 U'
17088 Nov 4, 2018 4:24:59 PM 00:23.243 F2 D B2 L2 D F2 D F2 L2 D2 U2 B U L D2 L2 B R L D' F' U
17087 Nov 4, 2018 4:24:16 PM 00:23.866 U B2 D' B2 R2 F2 U2 F2 U' L2 F2 R' B' U' R' F R B D' F L2 U'
17086 Nov 4, 2018 4:23:25 PM 00:33.827 B2 U2 R2 B2 L2 F2 D R2 U B2 D R' B U' F2 L B2 D' B F R2 U'
17085 Nov 4, 2018 4:22:40 PM 00:22.935 R2 D' U' B2 U2 F2 L2 D' B2 F2 U' B' U' R D' L' B' L' F U2 B2 U'
17084 Nov 4, 2018 4:22:07 PM 00:19.082 U R2 B2 L2 U L2 F2 U' R2 U2 L2 B' U L2 B D2 R B D B' U
17083 Nov 4, 2018 4:20:47 PM 00:20.510 D' F2 U B2 R2 U' F2 U' B2 D B L' U R' D' B' R L' F' L' U'
17082 Nov 4, 2018 4:20:13 PM 00:19.066 B2 F2 D' R2 U B2 R2 U B2 D' B R' B D B U L2 U R L2 U'
17081 Nov 4, 2018 4:19:27 PM 00:27.896 U' B2 F2 L2 F2 D' B2 R2 U B2 U2 R B U R B' F' R B D2 F
17080 Nov 4, 2018 4:18:44 PM 00:26.543 D2 B2 R2 D2 U' R2 L2 U' R2 L2 F2 R B' R B' L' D2 U2 R' U2 B
17079 Nov 4, 2018 4:18:01 PM 00:23.106 B2 D R2 B2 U2 L2 B2 D R2 F2 R2 F' R D L2 B' L' D' F' R' D' U'
17078 Nov 4, 2018 4:17:13 PM 00:27.201 U R2 B2 U2 L2 D' R2 U' R2 B2 D' F B2 D2 B2 R' F D' U' L B D
17077 Nov 4, 2018 4:16:28 PM 00:21.914 D2 U R2 F2 D' B2 U L2 B2 F2 L' B2 D' R U B' R2 L' D' B2 D
17076 Nov 4, 2018 4:15:52 PM 00:22.276 U2 B2 F2 U' L2 D' R2 U2 B2 F2 U' L D2 B U L2 U' R U F' L' D'
17075 Nov 4, 2018 4:15:03 PM 00:29.520 B2 D' L2 B2 U2 F2 L2 D' B2 U2 F2 L F' L U2 B R' L' B' U L2 U
17074 Nov 4, 2018 4:14:18 PM 00:21.228 B2 U2 L2 D U2 F2 R2 L2 U2 R2 F2 R' D' B F' L2 B2 L D2 B R2
17073 Nov 4, 2018 4:13:33 PM 00:26.325 D U2 F2 R2 D2 U L2 B2 L2 F2 D' F' U F' L B' D U2 F R' F U2
17072 Nov 4, 2018 4:12:53 PM 00:19.133 R2 B2 U L2 U R2 U L2 U' L2 U' B R D2 L' U F' D L2 D R' U2
17071 Nov 4, 2018 4:12:09 PM 00:25.752 B2 D' F2 L2 U2 F2 L2 U F2 D' U' B' F2 D F' U L B2 R' U' L' U2
17070 Nov 4, 2018 4:11:26 PM 00:21.498 L2 D' L2 U F2 D2 B2 R2 B2 D' L2 F R U' F2 L D' F' U R2 F2
17069 Nov 4, 2018 4:10:39 PM 00:29.158 B2 D F2 L2 D F2 U L2 U2 F2 U' R' D2 B' F R D R2 B D U R2
17068 Nov 4, 2018 4:10:01 PM 00:20.001 R2 D F2 U' F2 D2 L2 D2 U L2 U' R' D B F L' U' B' R' B2 F' D'
17067 Nov 4, 2018 4:09:20 PM 00:21.201 F2 U' R2 D F2 U2 L2 F2 U' R2 B' D B U2 R' F' D' L U' L2
17066 Nov 4, 2018 4:08:36 PM 00:26.558 U R2 U' B2 F2 D' R2 U F2 R2 U' F' R D2 L D2 L B' F D R' U'
17065 Nov 4, 2018 4:07:57 PM 00:19.251 R2 D' B2 D' R2 D2 L2 D2 B2 R2 U L U2 F' D L2 F2 R2 F2 R' B'
17064 Nov 4, 2018 3:59:16 PM 00:23.389 D B2 R2 U R2 F2 R2 D2 F2 U B2 R U' R2 D' L2 F D2 F U'
17063 Nov 4, 2018 3:58:31 PM 00:24.385 U2 F2 D' F2 U' L2 D' B2 L2 B2 D' R' B U2 F' R' L' U' B' F2 L2 U
17062 Nov 4, 2018 3:57:44 PM 00:28.767 L2 D F2 L2 B2 U2 R2 D2 L2 U' B2 L' F' R' D' R2 F R2 L2 U' R'
17061 Nov 4, 2018 3:56:53 PM 00:23.358 R2 U' L2 U F2 D U2 L2 B2 U L D R' B R U2 F R U R'
17060 Nov 4, 2018 3:56:01 PM 00:22.875 F2 U L2 D R2 D2 L2 D' B2 D' R2 B D2 U F D F L2 B F' U'
17059 Nov 4, 2018 3:55:08 PM 00:25.909 D2 B2 R2 U' B2 U' L2 U2 R2 L2 U' B R' B U' F2 D' U' F' R
17058 Nov 4, 2018 3:54:04 PM 00:21.609 L2 F2 D L2 F2 U2 L2 F2 D L2 D R' U R' F' L2 B' U2 R' B2
17057 Nov 4, 2018 3:52:56 PM 00:24.837 F2 R2 D L2 U2 F2 D2 B2 U F2 U' B' D2 U' R' F L' U B' F2 R' L2
17056 Nov 4, 2018 3:51:59 PM 00:25.025 B2 F2 D' F2 D2 B2 U R2 D' B2 D R' F U2 L' F2 D U' B' D U2
17055 Nov 4, 2018 3:51:11 PM 00:24.981 U2 F2 U R2 U2 B2 U L2 F2 U L B' R2 L' D L U' L2 D F U'
17054 Nov 4, 2018 3:50:11 PM 00:36.433 L2 F2 L2 D L2 D' L2 D B2 U' L2 B U B2 F' L B U R2 B D U
17053 Nov 4, 2018 3:49:16 PM 00:22.489 F2 L2 U F2 D2 R2 D' B2 U2 L2 U L' F D B U L2 U' R U' R
17052 Nov 4, 2018 3:48:07 PM 00:25.620 D2 U L2 D F2 D' L2 B2 U2 L2 U2 R' L2 B' F L F2 L2 D' R U' R'
17051 Nov 4, 2018 3:47:11 PM 00:25.376 U' F2 L2 U L2 B2 L2 D U' R2 U2 R U B' U' F' D' F' L2 B2 D U'
17050 Nov 4, 2018 3:46:03 PM 00:27.993 R2 L2 U2 L2 U F2 U L2 B2 U' R' D' U2 B' D' F2 L B L' F' U'
17049 Nov 4, 2018 3:45:11 PM 00:28.023 U R2 D2 B2 L2 U L2 B2 U L2 U R D' U L2 B2 F' R' L' B D' L2
17048 Nov 4, 2018 3:44:24 PM 00:23.081 U' F2 D F2 D2 U' R2 D R2 L2 U2 R' U B' L D' U' B2 D2 U2 R U'
17047 Nov 4, 2018 3:43:27 PM 00:22.921 U L2 D' B2 D' F2 U2 B2 L2 D L2 B D' F' U' L' U B' R L'
17046 Nov 4, 2018 3:42:13 PM  00:30.069 D L2 F2 D2 F2 D R2 D' U' R2 F2 R D L2 D B' U2 F2 R B' U2
17045 Nov 4, 2018 3:40:47 PM 00:28.665 R2 F2 U2 R2 B2 U' L2 B2 D U F2 R F' R' B U F2 D L' D R U
17044 Nov 4, 2018 3:39:51 PM 00:23.937 D2 L2 B2 U L2 D' F2 D' U' R2 B2 L B L2 F2 U F' D F' L U
17043 Nov 4, 2018 3:38:57 PM 00:24.537 R2 L2 B2 U' L2 B2 U' L2 F2 R2 D L D' F' U' R' B U L' D' F' D2
17042 Nov 4, 2018 3:38:02 PM 00:21.851 U L2 B2 U2 R2 U' F2 R2 U2 L2 D R' F' R' B U' L' F2 R U2 B2 L'
17041 Nov 4, 2018 3:36:56 PM 00:25.159 L2 U F2 L2 U2 F2 D' R2 U' R2 L2 F' L' F2 D2 B' U' F2 R' L' D' L'
17040 Nov 4, 2018 3:35:52 PM 00:25.912 L2 U' F2 D' R2 U L2 B2 D U' R' D F2 U R' L' F D' R F U2
17039 Nov 4, 2018 3:35:03 PM 00:18.850 D F2 R2 L2 D L2 F2 U B2 U' L' F' D' R2 D' R D' U' F' L2 D
17038 Nov 4, 2018 3:34:15 PM 00:23.341 R2 D' B2 D L2 F2 D2 F2 D U2 F2 L D2 L B' F' U' B R L U
17037 Nov 4, 2018 3:33:29 PM 00:21.404 D' L2 U' L2 U' B2 D B2 U' R2 U2 F L' D' L2 B' D' B U' F2 D2
17036 Nov 4, 2018 3:32:29 PM 00:24.165 U' L2 F2 L2 D B2 U B2 U R2 U2 L' U B2 R' B D B2 L D' F U2
17035 Nov 4, 2018 3:31:33 PM 00:32.876 U' F2 R2 D' F2 R2 U2 F2 U2 B2 U' B R U' B D2 L2 B' F' L D U'
17034 Nov 4, 2018 3:30:42 PM 00:23.335 B2 D2 L2 F2 D B2 R2 D' F2 U' R B2 D2 R' B' L' F2 U' F' L2 F U'
17033 Nov 4, 2018 3:29:30 PM 00:30.573 L2 D2 B2 L2 D' L2 B2 D' B2 D2 R2 F D2 L' D L2 B F' R' L F D2
17032 Nov 4, 2018 3:28:41 PM 00:26.215 L2 D B2 F2 R2 D R2 D' R2 D2 R D' B' F' U' L F' D B2 R L
17031 Nov 4, 2018 11:43:10 AM 00:21.358 F2 U2 B2 L2 U' B2 R2 L2 D' F2 D F' L' B F2 D L' B2 D B
17030 Nov 4, 2018 11:42:24 AM 00:23.851 F2 D B2 U2 F2 U' R2 U2 L2 F2 L' B2 U2 B' R B U L2 B L' U'
17029 Nov 4, 2018 11:41:34 AM 00:25.709 D' L2 B2 D R2 D' R2 U2 L2 D L2 B' F' U B U L' D2 F D2 U2
17028 Nov 4, 2018 11:40:47 AM 00:23.710 U' L2 B2 U' B2 D' R2 U2 R2 F2 D L' D2 R2 B' F2 R2 F' D' B2 U'


----------



## openseas (Nov 4, 2018)

One Wheel said:


> I think I’ve said before that 4BLD is my next big challenge. If we can get a delegate I’m planning on organizing a comp in early February that will include 4BLD. That’s a good incentive. Now I just need to find time to practice.


I believe Walker lives there


----------



## One Wheel (Nov 4, 2018)

openseas said:


> I believe Walker lives there


Walker is busy, Brandon Mikel is busy, Slater is maybe, Josh Feran could do it but last I talked to him he’s not approved as a candidate delegate yet (as I understand).


----------



## JohnnyReggae (Nov 5, 2018)

For the multi blind solvers ... how about 26/30 in 6:35... yes ... 6 minutes ...


----------



## Mike Hughey (Nov 5, 2018)

Ah. Had me going there for a while. Nice! Awesome 6 minute multi!

Now let's see him do it again this weekend. Somehow that would be a lot more impressive.


----------



## Sergey (Nov 5, 2018)

JohnnyReggae said:


> For the multi blind solvers ... how about 26/30 in 6:35... yes ... 6 minutes ...


1 hour 6 minutes in reality....


----------



## openseas (Nov 5, 2018)

Ha ha, funny!

Yes, he can try 100 next year 
Speaking of the day light savings, I flew to Asia over the weekend, basically lost one hour. I was in US when it started this year.... just a pure "loss".


----------



## mark49152 (Nov 5, 2018)

openseas said:


> Speaking of the day light savings, I flew to Asia over the weekend, basically lost one hour. I was in US when it started this year.... just a pure "loss".


I have lived two fewer days than today's date and my birth date would suggest .


----------



## JohnnyReggae (Nov 5, 2018)

Sergey said:


> 1 hour 6 minutes in reality....


Clearly I was fooled


----------



## auienrst (Nov 6, 2018)

Hi! I just wanted to brag: I finally managed to solve my jupiter bermuda cube this week-end.
It was a fun challenge (more than the crazy FTO, due to its "poppiness"(?)), and now I will be able to check how other people are doing it, and if their permutations are shorter.

On the down side, I have no excuses to practice Roux & 3BLD now…

Keep going guys, you are awesome.


----------



## Old Tom (Nov 7, 2018)

JohnnyReggae said:


> For the multi blind solvers ... how about 26/30 in 6:35... yes ... 6 minutes ...



Takes me almost that long to pick up a cube. Seriously, I am astounded.


----------



## JohnnyReggae (Nov 8, 2018)

Has anyone here tried the GAN 460M 4x4 ? I'm interested in how it compares to the other 4x4's, and also how does the feel compare to the newer GAN 3x3's, 354, 356 X.

I'm currently using a Aosu GTSm (v1) and a mini WuQue M. I prefer the Aosu's feel which is fast and light and quite smooth. The WuQue is more sluggish although it feels smoother.


----------



## openseas (Nov 8, 2018)

JohnnyReggae said:


> Has anyone here tried the GAN 460M 4x4 ? I'm interested in how it compares to the other 4x4's, and also how does the feel compare to the newer GAN 3x3's, 354, 356 X.
> 
> I'm currently using a Aosu GTSm (v1) and a mini WuQue M. I prefer the Aosu's feel which is fast and light and quite smooth. The WuQue is more sluggish although it feels smoother.



Personal preference is a big factor but :

WuQue with compressed spring + DIY magnets > GTS M > 460M

460M is smooth and stable but inner magnets are too strong for me. 460M feels pretty similar to 354M except slower.


----------



## Sergey (Nov 8, 2018)

openseas said:


> WuQue with compressed spring + DIY magnets


I have mini WuQue M with factory magnets.... Agree with compressed springs mod. Rotation become easier and I'm not tired after 10-15 solves. However, it become crunchy and not as smooth as out of the box. My opinion - mini version is not better than original.


----------



## JohnnyReggae (Nov 8, 2018)

openseas said:


> Personal preference is a big factor but :
> 
> WuQue with compressed spring + DIY magnets > GTS M > 460M
> 
> 460M is smooth and stable but inner magnets are too strong for me. 460M feels pretty similar to 354M except slower.


I do like the feel of the GAN cubes which is why I'm interested in the 460M, but it does carry a heavy price tag.



Sergey said:


> I have mini WuQue M with factory magnets.... Agree with compressed springs mod. Rotation become easier and I'm not tired after 10-15 solves. However, it become crunchy and not as smooth as out of the box. My opinion - mini version is not better than original.


Perhaps I should try the spring compression with the mini WuQue. For me the cube is too sluggish and my fingers get tired after about 5 solves with it, which is why I mostly use the Aosu. But I much prefer the 60mm size as I have smaller hands and the 60mm 4x4's just fit better.


----------



## Sergey (Nov 9, 2018)

JohnnyReggae said:


> Perhaps I should try the spring compression with the mini WuQue. For me the cube is too sluggish and my fingers get tired after about 5 solves with it, which is why I mostly use the Aosu. But I much prefer the 60mm size as I have smaller hands and the 60mm 4x4's just fit better.


I compressed springs by 1 mm, lube with QiYi M-lube and set tension like on photo. Faster and much easier to turn.


----------



## openseas (Nov 11, 2018)

found 2 senior cubers yesterday. Both of them are new , one, first competition, the other second competition but leading a cube club in his school - a teacher, he needs couple of years to be “fully” qualified as a senior but close enough  told them about this post & will send this link to them

Also got first win in 3BLD. Went super nervous and safe mode to recover from the triple DNF misery of last week. At least, was able to make one success with 1:26.


----------



## Sergey (Nov 11, 2018)

openseas said:


> Also got first win in 3BLD.


Congratulations!

I do my first steps in 3BLD but stuck on the hardest part - memo. My maximum for now is to solve only edges. BTW, "mechanical" part is quite easy (Old Pochmann).


----------



## SpartanSailor (Nov 11, 2018)

I saw someone recently refer to them self as “an older” cuber.... at the ripe old age of 22.


----------



## JohnnyReggae (Nov 12, 2018)

Sergey said:


> I compressed springs by 1 mm, lube with QiYi M-lube and set tension like on photo. Faster and much easier to turn.


I did the spring compression on the weekend. Compressed the springs by 1mm as well. I had to eventually take the whole cube apart as the core centers had moved taking the springs out. At least that way I could get even tensions across the core.The mini WuQue is amazing now, so so much better. It has taken over as my main from the Aosu GTS. It was a little scratchy, but I put some Lubicle Silk in and broke that in. This evening I'll stick some DNM in.


----------



## muchacho (Nov 12, 2018)

OH PB: 15.483 (was 15.894 from July)
...with 2-look CMLL



Spoiler



17201 Nov 12, 2018 2:55:39 PM 00:15.483 D' R2 D2 B2 U' L2 D2 B2 U2 B2 L' B' R' D B' D' U2 B F R2 U

x' y
Uw M U2 M' Lw' U' Lw U2 M2 Lw U Lw z2
U Lw' U L' M2 U2 M' Lw' U' Lw U L U' L'
F R U R' U' F'
M U M U' M'
R U2 R' U' R U2 L' U R' U' L
U M2 U' M' U2 M U2 M2

56 STM
3.62 tps

https://alg.cubing.net/?setup=D-_R2..._U-_R_U2_L-_U_R-_U-_L_
U_M2_U-_M-_U2_M_U2_M2_


----------



## CLL Smooth (Nov 12, 2018)

muchacho said:


> OH PB: 15.483 (was 15.894 from July)
> ...with 2-look CMLL
> 
> 
> ...


With EO done in between the two looks?


----------



## muchacho (Nov 12, 2018)

I've always done it like that, not gonna change it now than I'll learn 1-look so soon (at least that's what I tell myself, but I haven't learned any alg in 2 months).


----------



## CLL Smooth (Nov 13, 2018)

muchacho said:


> I've always done it like that, not gonna change it now than I'll learn 1-look so soon (at least that's what I tell myself, but I haven't learned any alg in 2 months).


Bravo on the good time. There’s something to be said for doing something the same way every time. I think learning that U set will help your times out in the long run though.


----------



## h2f (Nov 19, 2018)

I had a comp last saturday with only FMC and mbld. In FMC I had 34, 30 and DNF. DNF was possible 30/29 which would give me4th place in both cases but I was mistaken in rewriting solution in last 30 seconds. It was 24 to 4C but I had no time to find it so I added them in the end. At home I found it was -10 and it gave me 30 with 31.33 mo3. But a winner showed me another finish with 23 to 3C with insertion in the end (-2 canceltion with 29 solution). It would gave me mo3 31 - same as 3rd place but with worse single. A win and 3rd place took former WR holders in single.


----------



## mark49152 (Nov 19, 2018)

@h2f Grzegorz, nice FMC results. You didn't have an MBLD result though, were you not able to enter....?


----------



## h2f (Nov 19, 2018)

mark49152 said:


> @h2f Grzegorz, nice FMC results. You didn't have an MBLD result though, were you not able to enter....?



Since April I didnt do mbld and we needed judges. So I've decided not to enter. I would take only few cubes.


----------



## Sergey (Nov 20, 2018)

Although progress has generally significantly slowed, did my first sub20 avg5.



Spoiler: First sub20 avg5



Average of 5: 19.69
1. 20.20 L F U' R' D' R' B U2 F' R' U D2 F2 R2 U2 L2 B2 U' L2 B2 D' 
2. (23.92) R2 D F2 D' R2 B2 D2 B2 U F2 U L' D F D L' F2 U' B' L' R 
3. (17.07) F U' F D' R2 D' B D B' L F2 R U2 B2 D2 F2 L' F2 B2 U2 
4. 18.73 U' L2 D' B2 R2 F2 U L2 U L2 U2 B R2 F2 L D R' B2 F R' U2 
5. 20.15 B R' D R' U2 L U' B D' F' R2 U2 B2 U2 F2 L' U2 F2 L2 F2 R


----------



## openseas (Nov 20, 2018)

3 comps last 3 weeks, maintained a PB streak - it's been a while.
1st one was 4BLD 9:23, (~2 min improvement from the previous official PB), but other than that, all DNF (total 9).
2nd week was 3BLD 1:26 which gave me a win,
3rd week was 3BLD 1:19 (1st round), and (a desperate effort to avoid triple DNF) gave me 2:02 with a win.

This week is Thanksgiving, no comp except Hawaii but it was too expensive to get there, so skip that one.
Next week, I'm delegating a comp in Arkansas, and right after Christmas (12/26), a local comp near my house. I'm trying to convince my wife for the visit to Seattle (the interesting overnight comp starting at 5pm of Dec 31) since Jeff really wants to go there, but we'll see.

How's your forecast of upcoming comps?


----------



## mark49152 (Nov 20, 2018)

@openseas - UK comp this weekend. Probably I'll do only MBLD. Possibly 3BLD and 5x5.

I've been trying to practise MBLD whenever I get the chance. This weekend I got a PB for 2/2 - 2:56, my first sub-3 - and 4/4 - 7:01. (That's with full visual on all cubes, no 3BLD cube.) I rarely ever have a chance for a big attempt


----------



## h2f (Nov 21, 2018)

Good luck, Mark! (@mark49152) I have comp next week with 3bld but also no time to practice. And If I practice, I do FMC.


----------



## mark49152 (Nov 21, 2018)

Thanks Grzegorz @h2f, good luck to you too! And to any other oldie brethren competing this weekend (or next).


----------



## Logiqx (Nov 21, 2018)

Quick note to say that I've just refreshed the oldies rankings.

Ron and Andy got some great results at the weekend!


----------



## newtonbase (Nov 22, 2018)

I've given up trying to find somewhere quiet to practice MBLD. As I'm competing at the weekend and desperate to practice I've just had to do it in the kitchen area in front of people. Tried 3 yesterday and got 0 in 10:26 but they were close. Today I went super carefully and got 4/4 in 17:06. Not sure what to try on Saturday now but I'm not going to push it. Maybe 7.


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## mark49152 (Nov 22, 2018)

Mark @newtonbase - 7 makes sense. Recent qualifications have been 7 and 5 points. One mistake and you can still make 5 points.


----------



## newtonbase (Nov 22, 2018)

mark49152 said:


> Mark @newtonbase - 7 makes sense. Recent qualifications have been 7 and 5 points. One mistake and you can still make 5 points.


I hadn't really considered qualification but given how infrequently I compete I really should. 8 sounds tempting now!


----------



## mark49152 (Nov 22, 2018)

newtonbase said:


> 8 sounds tempting now!


You could still only afford 0 or 1 mistake though...


----------



## newtonbase (Nov 22, 2018)

mark49152 said:


> You could still only afford 0 or 1 mistake though...


True. 7 it is. 5 points should get me a top 20 ranking too. 
Biggest problem is getting there this weekend. My car broke and I may not get the courtesy car I was promised. I'll see what tomorrow brings. 
.


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## mark49152 (Nov 22, 2018)

newtonbase said:


> Biggest problem is getting there this weekend. My car broke and I may not get the courtesy car I was promised. I'll see what tomorrow brings.
> .


Oh no! Anyone coming from your direction who can give you a lift? What are the public transport options?


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## newtonbase (Nov 23, 2018)

mark49152 said:


> Oh no! Anyone coming from your direction who can give you a lift? What are the public transport options?


Once I know for certain if the courtesy car has fallen through I'll see if anyone is passing close by but I may have to hire a car. Public transport is as expensive as it is slow.


----------



## newtonbase (Nov 23, 2018)

I'll be rocking up in a hired Honda Jazz (or equivalent) tomorrow morning.


----------



## pglewis (Nov 24, 2018)

Good luck to everyone competing this weekend! 

Poking my head in since I haven't been around much. Lots of other distractions between work and guitar, mostly still just doing maintenance solves daily; bld is rusty yet again, only been doing maybe a solve per week. Still maintaining mid to low 20s on 3x3 when warmed up but I have some OLLs and one of my G-Perms that have gone sour.


----------



## mark49152 (Nov 25, 2018)

50.14 3BLD PB. Your turn, Grzegorz 

Happy now, despite my 13/20 disappointment in MBLD yesterday.


----------



## openseas (Nov 25, 2018)

@newtonbase @mark49152 congrats on your PBs!


----------



## newtonbase (Nov 25, 2018)

Another great comp at Weston-super-Mare. We'll done to @Selkie and @Shaky Hands
I had a poor 4x4 and OH. 3BLD was 3 DNFs but 2 were close and were sub PB. I got a PB single in 3x3 but the real highlight was 7/7 in MBLD. It was as safe as I could make it and it paid off. I'll qualify for the UKs next year and have a top 20 UK ranking plus a 10th place in the Over 40s ranking (sorry @openseas).
The head to head at lunchtime was really good fun to watch.


----------



## Sergey (Nov 26, 2018)

Inspired by the new WR... 



Spoiler: Second 3x3 sub20 agv5



Average of 5: 18.93
1. 17.73 D F' R B L' U R' L' F L F2 U B2 U F2 U2 B2 U' L2 U' D2
2. 20.89 B2 U L2 R2 B2 U L2 U' L2 B2 U' L U' F' U R U' R' U2 R' U2
3. (23.62) D2 R2 U L2 D' L2 U2 B2 U' F' R' U R D2 B' L2 U2 L' U2 F
4. 18.17 B2 R' D B' R2 F2 D' R2 F' R U2 F2 R2 U D2 F2 R2 F2 L2 U B2
5. (15.84) U D L' F D2 B U B U F' D2 F B2 U2 B2 D2 B' R2 D2 F'



UPD...and a PB... 


Spoiler: First 3x3 sub15 single PB



14.88 D2 F2 R2 D2 B' U2 L2 D2 L2 R2 D' B D2 U R' B' L D2 L' F'


----------



## SpartanSailor (Nov 26, 2018)

Sergey said:


> Inspired by the new WR...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Nicely done! Before you know it.... you too, will have a sub-3.5s single.


----------



## h2f (Nov 26, 2018)

mark49152 said:


> 50.14 3BLD PB. Your turn, Grzegorz
> 
> Happy now, despite my 13/20 disappointment in MBLD yesterday.



Congrats Mark! I dont think I'm able to beat it now.


----------



## Sergey (Nov 26, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> Nicely done! Before you know it.... you too, will have a sub-3.5s single.


Thanks! Immediately after that sub20 avg5 surprisingly did my first sub15 PB (14.88 full-step).


----------



## mark49152 (Nov 26, 2018)

h2f said:


> Congrats Mark! I dont think I'm able to beat it now.


Thanks - I'm sure you'll pass me again soon! Your memo is faster. And I like having someone to race


----------



## h2f (Nov 26, 2018)

Next Saturday I have 3bld. Guess how many solves I did in last 2 weeks. You can be mistaken by 10 solves. 



mark49152 said:


> Thanks - I'm sure you'll pass me again soon! Your memo is faster. And I like having someone to race



What was the scramble?


----------



## mark49152 (Nov 26, 2018)

h2f said:


> Next Saturday I have 3bld. Guess how many solves I did in last 2 weeks. You can be mistaken by 10 solves.


I guess you're asking either because you did loads or did none . Let me give you the benefit of the doubt: 30 per day with 2 rest days = 360...? 



h2f said:


> What was the scramble?


Not posted on WCADB.net yet. I'll post it when available. I think it was 11/7 but can't remember the memo at all. Here's the video. I nearly dropped the cube at 0:34


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## h2f (Nov 26, 2018)

One edge with corner are solved so 11/7 is possible. I like fluidity of your solves. Awsome judging.  

You are in an error margin - 22.


----------



## Logiqx (Nov 26, 2018)

WSM was another fun comp and generally better results for me than earlier this year. I met a couple of new oldies which is always nice and more people wanting to be on our unofficial rankings.

It was great to see Feliks in action again in the flesh and I have a ton of video footage to edit and upload from the various finals. I've edited the head-to-heads but the upload will be going through most of the night. I think it will be one of the best videos I've uploaded as I tried a few more things out during the editing.



Spoiler







Practice priority before the comp was 4x4 (daily), Pyra (daily), 2x2 (daily), OH (every few days), 3x3 (every few days), 5x5 (practically nothing).

Performance summary...



Spoiler



My best result by far was a 4x4 average of 1:05.07, 6 seconds faster than my PB average at UKC in October and 11 seconds faster than the prior PB from 2016. I'm comfortably a couple of seconds faster at home but it was a solid result considering I started the average with a DNF. It was a big improvement over my past performances despite the solves being far from perfect but it's what I wanted most from this comp. I'll keep practising as I'm enjoying the event at the moment.

My Pyraminx solves were better than at UKC as I was able to inspect calmly, giving me two comfortable 5's and a 6. I made a silly recognition error during L4E on my fourth solve which turned another comfortable 5 second solve into a counting 8. That added a second to my average (6.67) so it was a minor PB but still not the sub-6 that I've been after this year. I was happy with how I was inspecting and solving so I'm not too upset by the result. I've also got another oldie into Pyra - Aaron.

My first round of 3x3 was hideous as I had no ability to inspect but the second round was a lot better. Unfortunately, I messed up the third solve which was by far the best cross + F2L but when I encountered an F-Perm I confused myself by setting up for a one-handed alg and had to undo my mistake, leading to a counting 18. One of the counting 17's also had swapped cross pieces which wasted a couple of seconds. Again, I'm content with how I was solving in the second round but it just didn't come together for a good average - 17.29.

My warm up for OH was promising and I even knocked out a new PB single of 14.77 (PLL skip) but the same didn't happen at the comp table. In retrospect, I was having trouble with the table height which I'd probably have compensated for had I done some practice OH solves at a solving station. I also had a counting 30 as a result of a +2 on my last solve so the average ended up at 28.50. Slightly disappointing but my bad results seem to be getting better!?!

I couldn't do 2x2 to save my life at the beginning of the comp as my fingers were not co-operating that morning. I'll try again next year but I won't be practising in the months in between. 5x5 was just entered for fun as I've only done a handful of solves this year but it showed at the table. I think it was kind of useful doing some official solves just before the second round of 3x3 though.

Hopefully I'll get to compete again next month - OH, 3x3, 4x4, 5x5. It'll be my last chance until mid to late-2019.



Edit: Congrats to Mark Adams for the best PB by the oldies - 7/7 MBLD.


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## mark49152 (Nov 26, 2018)

h2f said:


> One edge with corner are solved so 11/7 is possible. I like fluidity of your solves. Awsome judging.


Thanks. Yes I can also see I solved parity, which is how I guess 7/11. I don't recall feeling it was easy or lucky, but I really can't remember anything else. I listened to the "don't go safe in 3BLD" advice and ruahed memo with no review, so it's no surprise I forgot the memo quickly 

Brief summary of the Weston comp: I attended just Saturday evening and about 2-3 hours on Sunday, as I had some family commitments too. So I competed in only MBLD, 3BLD and 5x5. Aside from the 50.14, my other 3BLD results were unremarkable. I had a bad night's sleep and was unprepared, so I didn't expect to do well. The PB was the last solve and I was quite relaxed, having got one success in the second and been already satisfied just to not go home with all DNFs. I think that helped, and my focus, composure and thinkahead were all better than usual. 

All my (limited) practice leading up to the comp was MBLD and I even adapted my diet and sleep pattern to try to prepare. So I was disappointed not to do better than 13/20. My time management was good and memo was quite strong. Three cubes were off by corners only and three by edges only. I suspect these were incorrect recall, or incorrect choice of comm - either way, mistakes of the mind not the fingers, which was a factor in my disappointment because that should have been better. The seventh was clearly a wrong turn somewhere. Anyway, I plan to keep plugging away at 20 cubes. That was my 6th official attempt at 20.

Finally, 5x5. I rarely practise sighted solving but like to maintain my standard when I do compete. For 3x3 that's sub 20, 4x4 sub 1:10, and 5x5 sub 2:20. Those are my thresholds for disappointment. Here I messed up PLL on two solves and had to restart from the last two slots, but still came out with a 2:19 average. Phew 

All in all it was a great comp: great venue and organisation (thanks to Andy and Chris), great entertainment in the head to head event (looking forward to your video, Mike), and we had a good turn out of oldies and the traditional oldies' curry night. Nice to catch up with @Shaky Hands, @Selkie, @Logiqx, @newtonbase, @speedpicker and all the rest of the UK crew, and congrats to everyone on their PBs - especially that awesome 7/7, Mark .


----------



## Logiqx (Nov 27, 2018)

Video is up...


----------



## Sergey (Nov 27, 2018)

Logiqx said:


> Video is up...


Was it Robert Yau in the background? Also very fun to see as you judging Felix (He thanked you for the footage. I noticed that Felix is very kindness guy.)


----------



## Logiqx (Nov 27, 2018)

Sergey said:


> Was it Robert Yau in the background? Also very fun to see as you judging Felix (he thanked you for the footage. I noticed that Felix is very kindness guy)



At which point do you think Rob is in the background? It is more than possible...

It is funny how that worked out. I had been filming other people and I was unaware that Feliks was up when they asked for more judges.

I went up to help and ended up with Feliks for his third solve so I started filming and judging him on the front table.

Funny to think that I started out with the sole intention of recording Feliks doing Megaminx and ended up on his channel as the judge.


----------



## Logiqx (Nov 27, 2018)

@Sergey - If you were referring to the head-to-heads then yes, Rob was behind the right-hand stage.


----------



## Sergey (Nov 27, 2018)

Logiqx said:


> At which point do you think Rob is in the background? It is more than possible...


F.e.


Spoiler










and


Spoiler











Also noticed that semi-finals had unequal attempts (4 vs 5). Maybe Mats decided to surrender....


----------



## Sergey (Nov 27, 2018)

Logiqx said:


> @Sergey - If you were referring to the head-to-heads then yes, Rob was behind the right-hand stage.


Yes. Thanks.


----------



## SpartanSailor (Nov 27, 2018)

@Logiqx is it the common practice to be the runner and judge as well as staying with a competitor? 

Here we either run or judge.


----------



## Logiqx (Nov 27, 2018)

Sergey said:


> F.e.
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> ...



Yes. That is Rob Yau.

The knockouts are best of 5 so a game stops when someone has 3 wins.


----------



## Logiqx (Nov 27, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> @Logiqx is it the common practice to be the runner and judge as well as staying with a competitor?
> 
> Here we either run or judge.



It varies from competition to competition.

At some competitions the judges remain seated and we have runners.


----------



## Sergey (Nov 27, 2018)

Logiqx said:


> Video is up...


The grand final is just incredible and funny!


----------



## mark49152 (Nov 27, 2018)

mark49152 said:


> Three cubes were off by corners only and three by edges only. I suspect these were incorrect recall, or incorrect choice of comm - either way, mistakes of the mind not the fingers, which was a factor in my disappointment because that should have been better. The seventh was clearly a wrong turn somewhere.


I had a chance over lunch to check the video, and it's an interesting example of how post-DNF analysis can be helpful. The three edges-failed cubes were all off because I swapped two adjacent pairs. Clearly I do not always have strong enough ways of making clear the order of images in my scene. I've made this mistake many times before, and at Weston it cost me 6 points. So I need to work on this.

The other four errors were a mixed bag.


----------



## Sergey (Nov 27, 2018)

mark49152 said:


> All in all it was a great comp: great venue and organisation (thanks to Andy and Chris), great entertainment in the head to head event


And a nice gift to the organizers - sub20 podium - Best Podium in 3x3x3 Cube event


----------



## newtonbase (Nov 27, 2018)

mark49152 said:


> I had a chance over lunch to check the video, and it's an interesting example of how post-DNF analysis can be helpful. The three edges-failed cubes were all off because I swapped two adjacent pairs. Clearly I do not always have strong enough ways of making clear the order of images in my scene. I've made this mistake many times before, and at Weston it cost me 6 points. So I need to work on this.
> 
> The other four errors were a mixed bag.


Do you have any rules that you follow for the order of pairs?


----------



## mark49152 (Nov 27, 2018)

newtonbase said:


> Do you have any rules that you follow for the order of pairs?


Yes I have a few conventions I follow if they fit, but clearly there are too many cases where they don't, or aren't reliable enough.


----------



## newtonbase (Nov 28, 2018)

mark49152 said:


> Yes I have a few conventions I follow if they fit, but clearly there are too many cases where they don't, or aren't reliable enough.


Me too but sometimes I have to just remember through brute force which wouldn't be good if short of time. I also might move a pair from the end of one image to the start of the next or come up with a better word but again, that takes time.


----------



## mark49152 (Nov 28, 2018)

newtonbase said:


> Me too but sometimes I have to just remember through brute force which wouldn't be good if short of time. I also might move a pair from the end of one image to the start of the next or come up with a better word but again, that takes time.


Yeah it all comes down to time. It would be way easier to get these things right with a couple of extra reviews.


----------



## mark49152 (Nov 28, 2018)

h2f said:


> What was the scramble?


B2 R2 B2 U2 L' B2 D2 L' R B' U' R' B2 L2 R' D F2 R2 B' R Fw'

My orientation is z2 (yellow/green).

Memo (DF/UBL/Speffz):-
Edges PALS MNEO HGF
Corners PD GJ OB Q

It was actually 5'/11 but I solved the twist with an extra comm so 7/11 for me. 

z2
[x': [U' R2 U, M2]]
[M': [U' L' U, M']]
[U M' U', R']
[U': [M', U' R2 U]]
[L: [U' M' U, L]]
[x' U L2 U': M2]
[D' L2 D: M2]

[L D' L', U']
[R U: [R' D R, U]]
[R D R', U]
[R': Y-perm]


----------



## SpartanSailor (Dec 1, 2018)

guys... I’m super excited right now. I just sat down for the weekly forum comp to do 3x3 and maybe a couple other events just to wind down some and take a break from all my work and other “life” stuff. My first solve was 16.67. I was stunned. I don’t see 16.xx very often. I was ready to just call it a success to get a good time in the forum comp. Then I did 16.16 for the next! Then 18.95 for the third! Now... My PB ao5 is 19.4 as I sit here and look at these three times. 
Fourth—21.56. Yep. That’s more like it.
Final solve—19.65... that means all sub-20s counting and a new PB ao5 of 18.42!


----------



## One Wheel (Dec 3, 2018)

I know that some of you guys work closely with WCA, I’m wondering if there is any way that you know of that I can do more to influence or reverse the decision to remove feet. I’m sure that in the final tally I was counted as someone who is not interested in feet solving, but the fact of the matter is that I just didn’t have the opportunity this year. I wanted to focus on big cubes in the comp that I organized, and the comp that I would have competed in feet is the one that my brakes went out on the way there. I am planning a comp for early February that will have feet, likely 2 rounds if enough people sign up. I really think that feet adds a lot to WCA, more than OH, in fact. This is a very upsetting announcement. I knew that feet was under review, but I was sure that at the pace that records have been broken and the level of competition has increased following the switch to Ao5 format that feet was safe.


----------



## SpartanSailor (Dec 3, 2018)

One Wheel said:


> I know that some of you guys work closely with WCA, I’m wondering if there is any way that you know of that I can do more to influence or reverse the decision to remove feet. I’m sure that in the final tally I was counted as someone who is not interested in feet solving, but the fact of the matter is that I just didn’t have the opportunity this year. I wanted to focus on big cubes in the comp that I organized, and the comp that I would have competed in feet is the one that my brakes went out on the way there. I am planning a comp for early February that will have feet, likely 2 rounds if enough people sign up. I really think that feet adds a lot to WCA, more than OH, in fact. This is a very upsetting announcement. I knew that feet was under review, but I was sure that at the pace that records have been broken and the level of competition has increased following the switch to Ao5 format that feet was safe.


Where was this announcement? When was it decided feet will go away from WCA comps and when will this decision take effect? 

I didn’t see anything in the WCA announcements page about this....


----------



## One Wheel (Dec 3, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> Where was this announcement? When was it decided feet will go away from WCA comps and when will this decision take effect?
> 
> I didn’t see anything in the WCA announcements page about this....


https://github.com/thewca/wca-regulations/issues/652

I saw it posted on Reddit. Effective 1/1/2020


----------



## SpartanSailor (Dec 3, 2018)

One Wheel said:


> https://github.com/thewca/wca-regulations/issues/652
> 
> I saw it posted on Reddit. Effective 1/1/2020


Interesting... I can see wanting to remove events that are low participation, on the other hand it’s nice to have variety. I personally don’t do feet, nor do I have interest, but I DO enjoy seeing it as an event. 
For me this begs a greater question: what is the purpose for WCA comps? Is it only to support “popular” events and if not, how do you balance niche events against the larger Cubing experience. 

Locally, I have struggled with cutoff times and soft cutoffs due to them being quite fast for anything other than 333. This is largely due to my area has a LOT of cubers and many are world class. Most comps, a person needs 13s to make the second round of 333 and often the larger cube cutoffs are only slightly more generous than the US Nationals qualifying time. 

So, back to the discussion of feet... I’d be interested to hear what motivates it’s removal from a practical matter. Clearly there are additional logistics associated with doin feet, but I am interested to hear from a delegate or coordinator’s perspective.


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## mark49152 (Dec 3, 2018)

One Wheel said:


> https://github.com/thewca/wca-regulations/issues/652
> 
> I saw it posted on Reddit. Effective 1/1/2020


Bob Burton said on FB that the Board has not has their final vote on the proposed changes yet, which implies that it's not finalised. (Although I would guess that it's just a matter of ratification - @Selkie would know.)


----------



## SpartanSailor (Dec 3, 2018)

Is the expectation that for an event to sustain in WCA that a significant portion of competitors participate in it? 

Clearly there is a need to evaluate if an event doesn’t generate interest in the form of competition. How many other events could be removed using this logic? What about 5BLD? I hardly ever see a comp featuring 5BLD. The one I did see, only had 3 competitors. 

Don’t get me wrong, I’m not suggesting other events be removed. Rather, I’m hoping to get an full explanation of why one would be removed if that decision is made. 

Interesting, none the less.


----------



## openseas (Dec 3, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> Is the expectation that for an event to sustain in WCA that a significant portion of competitors participate in it?
> 
> Clearly there is a need to evaluate if an event doesn’t generate interest in the form of competition. How many other events could be removed using this logic? What about 5BLD? I hardly ever see a comp featuring 5BLD. The one I did see, only had 3 competitors.
> 
> ...



It's not entirely based on popularity.

Main reasons (not mine, I'm not against) are bad publicity, sanity(x) sanitary (O ), inconvenience in terms of organization (need a separate area or change the competition station for feet) + low attendance.


----------



## CLL Smooth (Dec 4, 2018)

openseas said:


> It's not entirely based on popularity.
> 
> Main reasons (not mine, I'm not against) are bad publicity, sanity, inconvenience in terms of organization (need a separate area or change the competition station for feet) + low attendance.


Sanity is my main reason for not competing


----------



## One Wheel (Dec 4, 2018)

CLL Smooth said:


> Sanity is my main reason for not competing


Honestly it’s not that unsanitary. Usually different timers are used, and even if they aren’t a quick wipe with an alcohol swab is more than enough. If somebody has really stinky feet, send them to the restroom to wash them off in the sink. Think about all the different filthy surfaces you touch with your hands in a day, and consider that the vast majority of the time you are not in bed or in the shower your feet are in socks, which are presumably regularly changed and washed.


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## pglewis (Dec 4, 2018)

One Wheel said:


> Think about all the different filthy surfaces you touch with your hands in a day



This was my first thought, the "sanitary" argument seems more a state of mind than based on reality. Kids' hands are a germ incubating mess.


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## CLL Smooth (Dec 4, 2018)

Here I was worried about my sanity.


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## pglewis (Dec 4, 2018)

CLL Smooth said:


> Here I was worried about my sanity.



Granted, I'm not so certain that was a typo


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## openseas (Dec 5, 2018)

pglewis said:


> Granted, I'm not so certain that was a typo



I'm the one who needs to check my own sanity


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## David Zemdegs (Dec 7, 2018)

PB this morning 1:02.98 - Sub 1 the goal in 2019. (p.s. it was a PLL skip).


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## openseas (Dec 8, 2018)

David Zemdegs said:


> PB this morning 1:02.98 - Sub 1 the goal in 2019. (p.s. it was a PLL skip).



Congrats! You’re getting there.

Are you planning to compete in Warm Up comp or WC?


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## David Zemdegs (Dec 8, 2018)

openseas said:


> Congrats! You’re getting there.
> 
> Are you planning to compete in Warm Up comp or WC?


I generally compete in every comp in Melbourne. So there will be quite a few next year including the WC!


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## SpartanSailor (Dec 8, 2018)

This weekend is the final push... by Sunday, one way or another, I will be done with my semester of classes. I took a full-time student load on top of my normal full time job and family responsibilities. I haven’t had much time to practice, but have still managed to make some improvements—that has been especially shocking. However, the event that has probably suffered most is 3BLD. I just haven’t had any time in the past couple months to really practice. I’m looking forward to some more free time and getting my 3BLD back “in shape”. I have a couple comps in January and one includes 3BLD...

Anyway, I know I’ve been relatively quiet around here lately and just wanted to give a brief update. After this weekend, I hope to really dial in my 3BLD and get a sub-3 official time. Realistically, I’d LOVE to get that down to 2:30....


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## SpartanSailor (Dec 9, 2018)

Got my first sub-5min on 6x6x6 today. 4:54.93 with a PB ao5 at 5:07.xx as well. A little surprised about and was fortunately enough to have that happen on the forum weekly comp. Still nearly last in the 6x6x6 competition, but I’m pleased to see the improvement, even if I’ll never get to a “fast” time, it’s a fun even to mix in from time to time for the weekly comp. 

Anyone with upcoming comps soon?


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## One Wheel (Dec 9, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> Got my first sub-5min on 6x6x6 today. 4:54.93 with a PB ao5 at 5:07.xx as well. A little surprised about and was fortunately enough to have that happen on the forum weekly comp. Still nearly last in the 6x6x6 competition, but I’m pleased to see the improvement, even if I’ll never get to a “fast” time, it’s a fun even to mix in from time to time for the weekly comp.
> 
> Anyone with upcoming comps soon?



Nice on 6x6! I’ve slowed down on 6x6 a bit, I should practice more. 

I will need to figure out how to prioritize: I’m going to be organizing a comp in early February with 3-7, feet, 3-5BLD, and probably Megaminx. I’m far from proficient at 3BLD, need to learn 4BLD and 5BLD, and running close to the fairly generous cutoffs for 6x6 and Megaminx. Plus I think if I work on feet a little I could get sub-1:30, and a lot I could go sub-1:00 by the end of next year. Hard to decide how to spend my time.


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## chtiger (Dec 10, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> Anyone with upcoming comps soon?



I've got one next weekend. It's a 3 day comp with every event. but I already had plans for Saturday, so I'm going Friday for 4BLD and 5BLD and back Sunday for MBLD, 2x2, and 3x3. Mainly going for the slim chance of a 5BLD success.


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## SpartanSailor (Dec 10, 2018)

3-day event! That’s huge. Best of luck with that 5BLD attempt.


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## pglewis (Dec 13, 2018)

Still keeping up maintenance solves. I ironed out my goofy G-Perm issue, OLLs still aren't 100% again but are less rusty than at their worst. I landed several 20.x in a handful of timed solves last night after warming up, just to get a gauge since I haven't been timing, so my best solves aren't far off from when I'd peaked. I can feel I'm turning a smidgen slower with a little more recognition delay on LL than when I was at my peak, so the times matched what I expected. 

Still no comp on the horizon for me. Between what they've been holding in the region and my schedule there's been nothing I could hit that included bld and mbld and since I don't speedsolve big cubes that's what I'm holding out for. Extra sorry I couldn't make Great Lakes now, that was the perfect comp and reasonably close but I couldn't commit on my schedule in time. 

Also, it's fair to say I've officially reverted back to my trusty GTS2-M as my main. The 3-M held that title for a bit then the Gans 354 for a while. There are some aspects of both those puzzles that I still like more than the GTS2-M but as an overall puzzle I just keep coming back.


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## openseas (Dec 14, 2018)

Not much going on lately...

1) Trying to start learning UF buffers. Not that I'm expecting huge gain. Mostly, I need to drill edge comms any way, so, just switching to UF instead of spending more time & efforts for DF. Just started, looks like a long way to go, all those new finger tricks and grip...
2) My next comp will be Dec 26th which will be start of 5 consecutive weeks comps. So, switching buffer may not be a good idea in terms of official results....
3) Randomly tried 4BLD execution only, got a PB, 2:34 single, 2:53 ao5 - these are 4BLD execution only, haha....


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## h2f (Dec 14, 2018)

openseas said:


> 1) Trying to start learning UF buffers. Not that I'm expecting huge gain. Mostly, I need to drill edge comms any way, so, just switching to UF instead of spending more time & efforts for DF. Just started, looks like a long way to go, all those new finger tricks and grip...



Huh. Same me. I was drilling DF and I've read Graham's post about his fingertricks. Mark (@mark49152) asked why UF is better than DF. I've checked Graham's answer, checked few comms. I liked them. Now I'm drilling UF. I'm gonna to back to practice 3bld when I go through all comms and I'll be able to figure out all cases.


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## mark49152 (Dec 14, 2018)

h2f said:


> Huh. Same me. I was drilling DF and I've read Graham's post about his fingertricks. Mark (@mark49152) asked why UF is better than DF. I've checked Graham's answer, checked few comms. I liked them. Now I'm drilling UF. I'm gonna to back to practice 3bld when I go through all comms and I'll be able to figure out all cases.


I decided that's the last time I'm going to get involved in a DF-UF debate.  The conclusion seems to be that some cases have more finger friendly algs with UF. However, the more I ask and the more I hear that answer, the more of a dilemma I face: continue to "waste" time on DF, or start again with UF. The bottom line is, because I have a busy life, I like to learn incrementally at my convenience, and I can't see myself ever being willing to throw out everything I've learned for DF and face a year of official DNFs while I get used to UF. I'm unlikely to ever reach a level where it makes a significant difference anyway.


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## h2f (Dec 14, 2018)

mark49152 said:


> I decided that's the last time I'm going to get involved in a DF-UF debate.



Ha! So thanks Mark. That were my thoughts too: drill DF or switch to UF and waste some time. My 54.xx is so painfull for me to watch and Grahams comms seemed to me so natural so I decided to switch. I give myslef 2-3 months to see where it leads. If I'm fine with my times, I'll stay.


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## pglewis (Dec 14, 2018)

Surprisingly good batch of solves today, including a 15.88 single with a PLL skip and beat my Ao12 PB by a tenth. That high 15 was my 51st solve, I'm glad I wasn't watching closely or I'd have ended the session at 50 lol. The Ao12 was the biggest surprise, I was already overdue for another good single and averages longer than Ao5 aren't quite back in shape yet, or so I thought.



Spoiler: Stats



solves/total: 51/51

single
best: 15.88
worst: 48.50

mean of 3
current: 19.85 (σ = 4.65)
best: 19.85 (σ = 4.65)

avg of 5
current: 22.47 (σ = 3.33)
best: 21.40 (σ = 1.32)

avg of 12
current: 22.45 (σ = 2.61)
best: 22.45 (σ = 2.61)

avg of 25
current: 23.84 (σ = 3.32)
best: 23.84 (σ = 3.32)

avg of 50
current: 24.97 (σ = 3.84)
best: 24.97 (σ = 3.84)

Average: 25.05 (σ = 3.83)
Mean: 25.70


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## SpartanSailor (Dec 16, 2018)

Just hanging around the hotel room in Washington waiting to meet with family for breakfast... spent some time with my 3x3 and 4x4... took a short break, returned to 4x4 and nailed a new PB of 56.77! Only the second time I’ve gone sub-1 and my previous PB was back on 21 July 2018. My wife, saw the fist pumps and said, “I assume that was a good time.”

Pretty stoked about this one. The centers came together well. All the edges happened smoothly and quickly (for me) and then F2L went well. I noticed around OLL that I was at 49-50 seconds... I tried to ignore that and got luck to avoid parity so it worked out just right. I’ve had several 1:05s over the past couple weeks that were the result of double parity, but it feels REAL good to see the timer say 56.77.


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## openseas (Dec 16, 2018)

h2f said:


> Ha! So thanks Mark. That were my thoughts too: drill DF or switch to UF and waste some time. My 54.xx is so painfull for me to watch and Grahams comms seemed to me so natural so I decided to switch. I give myslef 2-3 months to see where it leads. If I'm fine with my times, I'll stay.



I think it will take at least 6 month for me.
My reason is not that my DF comm executions are terrible - it will be same bad and ugly with UF as well. But when I’m in the learning stage, just easier to go with “recommended method” so that later I don’t have to blame my self why I didn’t do that  If I stick to DF, it may take additional 2-3 month for drilling. So, 3 extra month, may be not too bad. When I learned 33, ignored my son’s advice, stick to “whatever way to get me no assistance 30s solving” asap mentality. It ended up with terrible F2L and others which I need to start over to improve efficiency if I ever get to practice 333 again.

Not sure how I handle 4/5BLD though. I may go with UF for 3BLD, DFr for 4/5 BLD which will sure be a regrettable decision in near future.

BTW, edge comms are much easier than corner comms - learning is not a much of issue but drilling will be. We’ll see.


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## h2f (Dec 16, 2018)

openseas said:


> Not sure how I handle 4/5BLD though. I may go with UF for 3BLD, DFr for 4/5 BLD which will sure be a regrettable decision in near future.
> 
> BTW, edge comms are much easier than corner comms - learning is not a much of issue but drilling will be. We’ll see.



It seems very reasonable. I dont know how I will do 5bld but maybe I'll stay with df/dfr. Yeah, edge comms are easier.


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## mark49152 (Dec 16, 2018)

h2f said:


> It seems very reasonable. I dont know how I will do 5bld but maybe I'll stay with df/dfr. Yeah, edge comms are easier.


I plan to stick with DF for 4/5BLD for now because I'm not convinced the benefits would be as significant as the UF folks claim for 3BLD. For example, u/d and f/b slices are not as nice anyway, so I expect to use r/l for most cases, which means lots of different algs from 3BLD anyway.

For 3BLD I'm going to stick with DF until I'm sub-40. Once I'm the first sub-40 over-40 I'll reconsider whether DF is holding me back


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## pglewis (Dec 17, 2018)

Definitely an interesting discussion as someone who hasn't taken up comms yet nor committed to any buffers.


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## h2f (Dec 17, 2018)

mark49152 said:


> I plan to stick with DF for 4/5BLD for now because I'm not convinced the benefits would be as significant as the UF folks claim for 3BLD. For example, u/d and f/b slices are not as nice anyway, so I expect to use r/l for most cases, which means lots of different algs from 3BLD anyway.



Me too. I'like r2/m2. I'm not sure if I could handle with E/S moves with midges in 5bld. After my failure in August in 5bld - after 4 months of practice 5bld - I'm gonna back to 5bld. My goal for 2019 is to make an official solve. There's gonna 10 comps with all events and I hope to go for few. 



mark49152 said:


> For 3BLD I'm going to stick with DF until I'm sub-40. Once I'm the first sub-40 over-40 I'll reconsider whether DF is holding me back



Amazing goal! I wish I was sub50 globally.


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## chtiger (Dec 17, 2018)

Comp results from Friday/Sunday - http://www.cubecomps.com/live.php?cid=3801&compid=5
Finally had a round of 2x2 that wasn't completely sloppy, no 5BLD success, 4BLD PB barely, MBLD was disappointing, 3x3 wasn't close to sub-20.
Weird stat that may be a first - had PBs in 2x2 avg and 4BLD with the improvement in 2x2 (1.13 sec) bigger than in 4BLD (1 sec)


Spoiler: details on the BLD attempts



Had 1hr30min cumulative for 4 and 5BLD. I'm not used to or good at doing multiple big blinds together. I've only done more than one 5BLD in a day once ever, and that was at a comp with one solve in the morning and one in the afternoon (and one the previous day). So I was hoping for a success on the first attempt, and anything after that would be a bonus.

5BLD attempt 1 - Wasn't very close, but I was satisfied. Time was sorta fast for me, 30:34 I think, especially since I spent what felt like 5 minutes trying to recall the next to last center pair, which I did eventually. Corners were correct, but every other type had a few pieces wrong.
4BLD attempt 1 - Was just happy to get a success right after doing a 5BLD, and very surprised to get PB.
5BLD attempt 2 - Did good to get the memo down in a reasonable time. Accidentally memoed the centers in the opposite order as usual though, and that caused me to make an execution error which I didn't think I could undo, so quit midsolve.
4BLD attempt 2 - brain finally turned to mush. Was going to be slower than my first solve, and wouldn't have time for a 3rd attempt to try for an average, so quit during memo.
MBLD - considered doing 9, but settled on 8 so I wouldn't have to worry about time, then almost ran out of time, 4/8 59:37. One was off by 3 edges because of an edge pair executed backwards, which I should've realized. One was way off, 4 corners and 3 edges. And two were off by 3 corners. I need to figure out why that keeps happening. Last two attempts, 5 of the 7 DNFs were off by 3 corners. I don't generally do corners in pairs, so I shouldn't be doing pairs backwards like with the edges.


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## mark49152 (Dec 17, 2018)

@chtiger, congrats on the 4BLD. Doing lots of big BLD consecutively is hard if you're not used to it.


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## h2f (Dec 17, 2018)

@chtiger, congrats.


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## pglewis (Dec 17, 2018)

I think I've officially knocked the rust off my 3x3 solves, had to get a battery in the Stackmat because I'm back to threatening PBs. 

A little while back I kinda dropped N Perms for doing J Perm twice; execution is slower but because of the low frequency I _never_ managed to get good with N Perm recall and that pause made it moot. As punishment for my lazy decision I must have had 20 N Perms last night, at one point I swear I was getting them every third solve. 

I also hit a spell where "turn slower during F2L" was actually working for me, landed several 16s and 17s in a session where it's somewhat rare for me to get more than one or two of those if any. My lookahead is very fickle so that trick doesn't always work, unfortunately. 

I'll hopefully be giving the same workout to blind again soonish. I'm a little surprised at how quickly 3x3 came back together.


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## Logiqx (Dec 17, 2018)

It was great to spend some time with @Selkie and @Shaky Hands at the weekend but we missed @bubbagrub on his home patch.

I chipped a couple of seconds off my OH average with a 25.45 in the first round, including a 21.28 single. My OH went somewhat downhill after the first round but it's good to be getting closer to my home times. 

4x4x4 didn't go nearly as well as I'd have liked due to mishaps like slips of the u slice during PLL parity. I did get a couple of 57 singles thanks to the good fortune of no parity so at least I've got some sub-60 singles on my profile!

3x3x3 was the usual story of two bad solves per average so my best round of the weekend was another 17 average. I did however do a nice full-step 13.82 which is on film albeit with two easy F2L pairs. It's a shame I haven't had a 3x3x3 PR this year despite being faster than ever at home.

5x5x5 was just a filler for me after switching to Yau two weeks ago and having to get back to my free-slice times. I'm reasonably happy with the 2:32.76 single as it was only the L2E parity that pushed me over the 2:30 cutoff.

I only filmed my solves on Sunday and I've picked out the better ones for YouTube:






Full results on CubeComps:

http://cubecomps.com/live.php?cid=3792&compid=5


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## SpartanSailor (Dec 18, 2018)

I have some time later today... i’m Going to have to read back through a couple pages of posts about changing buffers for 3BLD... I’ll have more time, finally, to prep for a couple up coming comps in January. I have some random goals (i.e. get an OH average and/or a 777 single), but also want to dial in my 3BLD a bit again. 
I’m using M2/OP with the DF buffer. I’m not ready to add complexity to my 3BLD yet, but I’m interested to learn more about different buffers and their relative advantages/disadvantages. 

Great work this weekend @Logiqx, after watching your 4x4 practice I was inspired to smooth out my 4x4 turning during centers adn edge pairing. It helped.... when I got a new PB since July, so here’s hoping I can continue that progress and ultimately gets that down to at least a 2019 US Nationals qualifying time (with a sub-1 ao5 as the longer-term goal).


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## Logiqx (Dec 18, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> @Logiqx, after watching your 4x4 practice I was inspired to smooth out my 4x4 turning during centers adn edge pairing. It helped.... when I got a new PB since July, so here’s hoping I can continue that progress and ultimately gets that down to at least a 2019 US Nationals qualifying time (with a sub-1 ao5 as the longer-term goal).



Nice. I'm glad my practice video proved to be helpful / inspirational.


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## One Wheel (Dec 19, 2018)

I have about 6 weeks to learn big blind. I better start practicing Feet!


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## SpartanSailor (Dec 19, 2018)

One Wheel said:


> I have about 6 weeks to learn big blind. I better start practicing Feet!


Feet AND big BLD? I’m not sure I could get even just 4BLD in 6 weeks! 

Good luck. I wish that were closer to VA, I’d like to participate in that one.


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## One Wheel (Dec 19, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> Feet AND big BLD? I’m not sure I could get even just 4BLD in 6 weeks!
> 
> Good luck. I wish that were closer to VA, I’d like to participate in that one.


I’m signed up for both 4BLD and 5BLD, in reality I’ll be lucky to get a respectable 4BLD attempt in. Feet just because I want to actually do well at it.


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## Mike Hughey (Dec 19, 2018)

One Wheel said:


> I have about 6 weeks to learn big blind. I better start practicing Feet!


Ouch - looks like a wonderful competition - I so wish I could go. But the 7 hour drive is just too much to commit to in February (with possible winter weather issues).


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## pglewis (Dec 19, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> I’m using M2/OP with the DF buffer. I’m not ready to add complexity to my 3BLD yet, but I’m interested to learn more about different buffers and their relative advantages/disadvantages.



You probably already know but this is discussing buffers for commutators, I think M2/OP already use reasonably optimal buffers for the hybrid method. Comms have the familiar setup, exchange, restore routine but usually solving two pieces at a time. Some buffer choices will be more move ergonomic for commutators than others and then at a more detailed level some will have better setups for a particular pair than others. I imagine the "best overall" buffer is a difficult thing to determine due to the huge number of cases and how deeply you have to dig into using any particular buffer to learn its strengths and weaknesses. In the end the remaining controversies probably only apply to the very fastest, probably sub :30 solvers.


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## h2f (Dec 20, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> I’m using M2/OP with the DF buffer. I’m not ready to add complexity to my 3BLD yet, but I’m interested to learn more about different buffers and their relative advantages/disadvantages.



UF is more ergonomic: algs in group of R, U, E moves are easier to fingertrick than RED. U/U' is easier than D/D'. Algs with S/S' for me are easier to do now. But as Mark mentioned - I'm not sure if the difference is so signiticant to switch. So far I'm drilling Ulayer algs and I havent tried it in solves.


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## mark49152 (Dec 20, 2018)

h2f said:


> UF is more ergonomic: algs in group of R, U, E moves are easier to fingertrick than RED. U/U' is easier than D/D'. Algs with S/S' for me are easier to do now. But as Mark mentioned - I'm not sure if the difference is so signiticant to switch. So far I'm drilling Ulayer algs and I havent tried it in solves.


It's a complicated issue, and at the end of the day I don't think it makes much difference to us older folks. 

I agree with the RDE/RUE point, but there are usually several alternatives for each case, so it's not like your only escape from an awkward RDE fingertrick is to change buffer. I've looked at several of these cases since that Facebook discussion, and switched out several RDE algs for nice RFS alternatives, which I actually prefer to the UF/RUE options. So much of it is down to personal preference or style.

Also, I think a lot of the credit given to UF these days is a consequence of recent innovation and the availability of good alg lists supported by the world's current best solvers. That doesn't necessarily mean it's technically impossible to improve DF algs to the point where it is perceived as an equally good buffer, just that nobody has done so or wants to right now, because UF is on trend. It takes a lot of effort to research and refine good alg lists, and not many people are motivated to invest their time in DF. Given the attention on UF right now, it's going to be popular anyway regardless of any innate technical superiority it might have.


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## h2f (Dec 20, 2018)

mark49152 said:


> Also, I think a lot of the credit given to UF these days is a consequence of recent innovation and the availability of good alg lists supported by the world's current best solvers



What about Graham's and Ishaan's list for DF. I thought they are decent.


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## mark49152 (Dec 20, 2018)

h2f said:


> What about Graham's and Ishaan's list for DF. I thought they are decent.


Yes IMO they are the best ones, but Graham switched to UF so presumably he himself thinks his DF list is not as good as his UF one . I don't know if Ishaan switched.


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## h2f (Dec 20, 2018)

mark49152 said:


> Yes IMO they are the best ones, but Graham switched to UF so presumably he himself thinks his DF list is not as good as his UF one . I don't know if Ishaan switched.



Ishaan switched too and he has nice algs list before switch. His UF algs are also great!


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## pglewis (Dec 20, 2018)

And while topic is going on, anyone wanna give me the elevator pitch on how floating buffers works?


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## h2f (Dec 21, 2018)

pglewis said:


> And while topic is going on, anyone wanna give me the elevator pitch on how floating buffers works?



If you finish the cycle you start not taking the first target to the buffer and next shooting it to new place but you change the buffer. For example if your starting buffer is DF and you finished all cycles you switch to UB and you start from this point. Theres no need to shooting it to DF first. You can save few algs if theres few cycle breaks so it make a difference for top blinders.


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## pglewis (Dec 21, 2018)

h2f said:


> If you finish the cycle you start not taking the first target to the buffer and next shooting it to new place but you change the buffer. For example if your starting buffer is DF and you finished all cycles you switch to UB and you start from this point. Theres no need to shooting it to DF first. You can save few algs if theres few cycle breaks so it make a difference for top blinders.



I was wondering how switching the buffer would work with memo but from this I gather you only move the buffer at a cycle break?


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## h2f (Dec 21, 2018)

pglewis said:


> I was wondering how switching the buffer would work with memo but from this I gather you only move the buffer at a cycle break?



As far as I know, yes.


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## mark49152 (Dec 21, 2018)

pglewis said:


> I was wondering how switching the buffer would work with memo but from this I gather you only move the buffer at a cycle break?


Yeah I don't think it changes memo, except for influencing which piece you start the next cycle on. It's mostly an execution technique. As Grzegorz said, you switch buffer, but you of course have to do it between comms and at a cycle break, and only half of cycle breaks fall on a comm boundary. Some top cubers know multiple alg sets so can switch to different algs for the new buffer. Another way is to setup a different piece to your usual buffer; for example if UF is your usual buffer, switch to UR by setting it up with a U move (remembering that other U layer targets are now offset too).

Floating buffers is advanced stuff that IMHO is not really worth it until you're world class .


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## pglewis (Dec 22, 2018)

mark49152 said:


> Floating buffers is advanced stuff that IMHO is not really worth it until you're world class .



Oh, absolutely. If I want to get faster at 3bld I need not look any farther than my memo, personally. But I still like to understand the mechanics of it and all that makes sense.


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## pglewis (Dec 22, 2018)

3x3: I still feel like I'm in "remedial mode" even though I've been threatening or beating every PB except my outlier Ao5. I finally managed a running Ao50 in the mid 24s with about 90 timed solves today. Nothing sub 19 in the bunch so the main improvement was consistency and a lot fewer mistake and disaster solves. I currently have a half dozen OLLs in the remedial pile, which is all I can handle for the moment. Only one of those is solid enough for use under timer duress; no matter how much I drill them before a session I still blank out on recog in real solves. The bell curves for my normal solves and mistake solves are obvious from the time distribution. More sup 25 mistake solves than I'd like but everything is moving the right direction and shoring up OLLs will eventually help that as well.


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## Sergey (Dec 24, 2018)

Interesting that this was done on the self-magnetized Yuxin Little Magic.... GTS3LM don't allows me to achieve this (probably because of its size+ridges+color scheme combination).


Spoiler: New 3x3 single PB 13.12



1. 13.12 U' R2 B2 D' R2 U2 B2 L2 U L2 F R' B2 L' D F2 D2 B' U2 L2


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## SpartanSailor (Dec 24, 2018)

Sergey said:


> Interesting that this was done on the self-magnetized Yuxin Little Magic.... GTS3LM don't allows me to achieve this (probably because of its size+ridges+color scheme combination).
> 
> 
> Spoiler: New 3x3 single PB 13.12
> ...


Nice! I’m not sure a 13.xx is in my near future, but you I suppose everything could go right AND a little luck. These days I’m usually pretty happy with anything under 20 still.


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## SpartanSailor (Dec 24, 2018)

pglewis said:


> 3x3: I still feel like I'm in "remedial mode" even though I've been threatening or beating every PB except my outlier Ao5. I finally managed a running Ao50 in the mid 24s with about 90 timed solves today. Nothing sub 19 in the bunch so the main improvement was consistency and a lot fewer mistake and disaster solves. I currently have a half dozen OLLs in the remedial pile, which is all I can handle for the moment. Only one of those is solid enough for use under timer duress; no matter how much I drill them before a session I still blank out on recog in real solves. The bell curves for my normal solves and mistake solves are obvious from the time distribution. More sup 25 mistake solves than I'd like but everything is moving the right direction and shoring up OLLs will eventually help that as well.
> 
> View attachment 9803


I still have a similar experience with my times. Still WAY more mistakes and sup-25s than I’d like, but overall, I feel like I’m getting a little faster. I would like to somehow get more consistent. I feel like my times still have a large range/variance so any given solve is a crapshoot as for time. Same can be said about my 4x4 times too. Although with the parity those times can vary considerably more.


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## SpartanSailor (Dec 24, 2018)

I’ve been sort of working on OH lately. Not a ton, but with a comp in Jan having a cutoff of 1:00, I want to be consistent enough to beat that in my first two solves. Then, I can finally get an average. 

Then, I just got 34.66! That’s a huge PB BREAKING MY PREVIOUS OF 40.30 from MAY! I suppose it’s easy to get PBs when you don’t really focus on an event then decide to give it a little attention.


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## openseas (Dec 24, 2018)

pglewis said:


> Oh, absolutely. If I want to get faster at 3bld I need not look any farther than my memo, personally. But I still like to understand the mechanics of it and all that makes sense.



The scramble I've got yesterday (sub 1  was a good example. UBL buffer was solved. Not only that, all U faces are solved except UFL. So, you can simply do U - one cycle - U'. That solves the entire corner scramble for that example. When you memo, do the same as usual but shift the pair since you'll do a pair for the 2nd and 3rd (1st and 4th are setup for floating and un setup).

Max's latest WR, he floated a cycle made 8 alg (originally 9 alg).

For 3BLD, I'm far from utilizing floating but I use a lot for 4/5BLD. If you use U2 or advanced U2 for 4/5BLD, and if your buffer is Ubl, then, any sticker on U layers can be solved using floating (U/U'/U2) with pair. When I trace centers & comes to a cycle break, I simply float U face and make a new unused U layer sticker as buffer to start a new cycle.


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## pglewis (Dec 24, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> I still have a similar experience with my times. Still WAY more mistakes and sup-25s than I’d like, but overall, I feel like I’m getting a little faster. I would like to somehow get more consistent. I feel like my times still have a large range/variance so any given solve is a crapshoot as for time. Same can be said about my 4x4 times too. Although with the parity those times can vary considerably more.



It's getting more difficult to target a single thing for my longer averages (keeping in mind that Ao50 is a "longer" average for me). For quite a while my OLLs were the primary culprit on my slower times as I was working on full OLL but at this point that is cut down to maybe a dozen, mostly lower frequency OLLs. So now it's probably all about a holistic approach with my solves rather than individual steps. The slower solves are a grab-bag now, from bad cross to poor lookahead, execution mistakes (botching cross or F2L pairs), and even dexterity issues/fighting with the puzzle. 

If I were to pick a single focus item now it would probably be cases with F2L pieces in the wrong slot where I'm still not very quick or efficient. After that would be cross drills, especially studying how to manage xcross. I'm awful at preserving pairs and usually just ignore them when I get them because historically I spend more time trying to preserve them than just breaking them up and solving as normal. That's something that could conceivably move my "potential wall", which is currently sitting around 19, was 20 -21 before.


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## openseas (Dec 24, 2018)

pglewis said:


> It's getting more difficult to target a single thing for my longer averages (keeping in mind that Ao50 is a "longer" average for me). For quite a while my OLLs were the primary culprit on my slower times as I was working on full OLL but at this point that is cut down to maybe a dozen, mostly lower frequency OLLs. So now it's probably all about a holistic approach with my solves rather than individual steps. The slower solves are a grab-bag now, from bad cross to poor lookahead, execution mistakes (botching cross or F2L pairs), and even dexterity issues/fighting with the puzzle.
> 
> If I were to pick a single focus item now it would probably be cases with F2L pieces in the wrong slot where I'm still not very quick or efficient. After that would be cross drills, especially studying how to manage xcross. I'm awful at preserving pairs and usually just ignore them when I get them because historically I spend more time trying to preserve them than just breaking them up and solving as normal. That's something that could conceivably move my "potential wall", which is currently sitting around 19, was 20 -21 before.




Mike wrote this a while ago and I also agree : around 20s average, the major road block seems to be efficiency in F2L. I practiced quite a bit & was able to get down sub 20s very frequently (not global though) but look ahead and OLL can help so much if your efficiency is not good enough. I was so eager to finish all F2L back then - didn't bother to learn good and efficient way of handling F2L. Not even good understanding of each case other than "obvious" and intuitive method. 

Once I settle down BLDs (not sure when it will be), I wanna go back to F2L and more basic of 333 to practice more efficient way --> basically reducing turn count.


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## pglewis (Dec 24, 2018)

openseas said:


> Mike wrote this a while ago and I also agree : around 20s average, the major road block seems to be efficiency in F2L. I practiced quite a bit & was able to get down sub 20s very frequently (not global though) but look ahead and OLL can help so much if your efficiency is not good enough. I was so eager to finish all F2L back then - didn't bother to learn good and efficient way of handling F2L. Not even good understanding of each case other than "obvious" and intuitive method.
> 
> Once I settle down BLDs (not sure when it will be), I wanna go back to F2L and more basic of 333 to practice more efficient way --> basically reducing turn count.



I'm bad at anything resembling a "drill"... cross drills and blind pair solving would be very beneficial but I find it difficult to do them. But I've been very good about continually refining my F2L cases all along, from :50 averages 'til now, that has been one of my good habits and I consider it a zero end game. I think F2L refinements are actually carrying me at the moment. My LL is probably still a little sluggish compared to when I was last at peak, leading me to feel like I'm still rusty, but the F2L refinements I was last working on continued to solidify even without a lot of solve spamming. I'm comfy with right, left, or back slots and EO twiddling for just about every case (which leads to difficulty retaining lower frequency dot OLLs because I rarely see them normally). There is still refinement to do on cases where a piece is in the wrong slot, that's definitely a common enough culprit for a slower solve. JPerm has a brilliant PDF out there on all F2L cases, not just last slot, it's even better than sliced bread if you're looking to optimize some awkward cases. 

Lookahead though, that's still my bane. As I've described before when it's going well I "just see things", no hunting, no thinking, what I need is simply revealed exactly when I need it. If I can force myself to do drills, blind pairs is probably the best prescription there. 

PDF link in the description:


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## pglewis (Dec 24, 2018)

And just because I've never seen this one and its mirror in any lists I thought I'd throw this one out there. Very specific situation but it is serving me well after taking some time to get into muscle memory, totally comfortable with it in solves under duress. Only 7 moves, flows reasonably well if not entirely regripless, solves back slots while flipping EO without any B moves or rotations by turning the sledgehammer on its side. Not great for F2L lookahead but the majority of the time I have need of it is on the last slot. 

https://alg.cubing.net/?setup=z2&alg=l_U-_R-_U_l-_U-_R&type=alg


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## SpartanSailor (Dec 25, 2018)

pglewis said:


> And just because I've never seen this one and its mirror in any lists I thought I'd throw this one out there. Very specific situation but it is serving me well after taking some time to get into muscle memory, totally comfortable with it in solves under duress. Only 7 moves, flows reasonably well if not entirely regripless, solves back slots while flipping EO without any B moves or rotations by turning the sledgehammer on its side. Not great for F2L lookahead but the majority of the time I have need of it is on the last slot.
> 
> https://alg.cubing.net/?setup=z2&alg=l_U-_R-_U_l-_U-_R&type=alg


I definitely need to keep working on F2L and look ahead. That’s the key to my better times. When look ahead goes well and I can see things as they develop, I get “good” (for me) times. Otherwise, I’m mid-to-high 20s.


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## pglewis (Dec 25, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> I definitely need to keep working on F2L and look ahead. That’s the key to my better times. When look ahead goes well and I can see things as they develop, I get “good” (for me) times. Otherwise, I’m mid-to-high 20s.



Ditto, though I'm apparently right at the brink of another breakthrough. Merry Christmas to me as I knocked over a half second off my Ao12 and got it under :22.


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## openseas (Dec 25, 2018)

Merry Christmas to me as well 

Got 9alg PB for 3BLD:

Generated By csTimer on 2018-12-25
single: 56.31

Time List:
1. 56.31=26.02+30.29 L2 B2 U L2 R2 B2 D2 U' L2 B2 U R' D2 F2 D' R U2 L' B' L Rw2 Uw


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## SpartanSailor (Dec 25, 2018)

Very


openseas said:


> Merry Christmas to me as well
> 
> Got 9alg PB for 3BLD:
> 
> ...


Very impressive.


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## SpartanSailor (Dec 26, 2018)

Good luck today @openseas to you and your son!!


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## openseas (Dec 26, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> Good luck today @openseas to you and your son!!



Thanks, @SpartanSailor !

It's first time in 3 month since last time Jeff competed. Now, he finished his SAT, back to cubing. Not much exciting won't be happening for a while but we plan to enjoy the year end cubing events!

Just finished my 1st round of BLD, PR by 1s


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## pglewis (Dec 26, 2018)

openseas said:


> ... Just finished my 1st round of BLD, PR by 1s



Father/Son 1/2 in round 1 _again_! You're really on a roll lately, someone has been in deep practice


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## SpartanSailor (Dec 26, 2018)

Looks like a #1 finish for @openseas today in 3BLD!


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## pglewis (Dec 26, 2018)

It has been a month since I got back to regular 3x3 practice and two weeks since I really returned to spamming lots of solves but I'm definitely at peak again now. I had a very encouraging session last night after getting home from a lovely family holiday.

Knocked another quarter second off my Ao50 and feel like I could have kept rolling it lower if I'd had the time. I think my LL is as good as ever again, better recall and execution on some OLLs that were iffy before and the remaining ones that need work were never solidly in muscle memory before, so they were already either responsible for sup 30s or just 2-looking in timed solves anyway.

The biggest drag on my Ao50 has been the disaster solves, making it difficult to get it sub 25. I only had four sup 30s in 66 solves with nothing over :33, so a really big improvement there though I'm unsure if I can attribute that part to anything. Two obvious and very small things are probably the biggest factors for the improvement: 1) paying extra close attention to the transition from cross to 1st pair (and not forgetting to keep doing it after the first 3 solves) and 2) Being very conscious about not watching the pair I'm solving all the way into the slot.

My confidence was at a level I've rarely experienced. I commonly get "spooked" during a good session and start to trail off but last night every solve just felt like an opportunity to do better. My current Ao5 PB is probably a full second better than my next best one and even though I never threatened it last night I felt like I could at any moment... the thought of a couple 17s and an 18 felt perfectly reasonable if I hit a hot streak.

Now to give the same treatment to 3bld. PB is still over 3:00 so it shouldn't take nearly as long


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## openseas (Dec 26, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> Looks like a #1 finish for @openseas today in 3BLD!



Ah, Jeff got triple DNF - not the kind of win I would like to have. Not completely done with switching to UFR buffer, looks like.

1st round, missed the mean by one corner alg (used the wrong target) but in general, looks like my solves and times are stable. All DFNs were 1:17 range (interestingly). Next comp, trying to get 1:00 range.


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## pglewis (Dec 26, 2018)

openseas said:


> Ah, Jeff got triple DNF - not the kind of win I would like to have. Not completely done with switching to UFR buffer, looks like.
> 
> 1st round, missed the mean by one corner alg (used the wrong target) but in general, looks like my solves and times are stable. All DFNs were 1:17 range (interestingly). Next comp, trying to get 1:00 range.



lol I very nearly posted "I'm sure that's not how you want to get it, but a win is a win". But I'm also sure there is personal satisfaction beyond the win, good things are happening for you in 3bld right now, big congrats.


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## openseas (Dec 26, 2018)

pglewis said:


> lol I very nearly posted "I'm sure that's not how you want to get it, but a win is a win". But I'm also sure there is personal satisfaction beyond the win, good things are happening for you in 3bld right now, big congrats.



Haha, yes, exactly, thanks.

I guess it takes really time to be actually executing without much hesitation even though you think you know those comms inside out. Looks like edges (still DF comms) are stable, corner comms are getting better (less thinking). Also, tried to do practice solve at least 30 per day - it seems to make difference in terms of stability and memo.


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## SpartanSailor (Dec 26, 2018)

openseas said:


> Haha, yes, exactly, thanks.
> 
> I guess it takes really time to be actually executing without much hesitation even though you think you know those comms inside out. Looks like edges (still DF comms) are stable, corner comms are getting better (less thinking). Also, tried to do practice solve at least 30 per day - it seems to make difference in terms of stability and memo.


30 BLD solves a day?!? That’s absolutely got to help. Looks like you are on track to close in on the 1:00 range consistently pretty soon.


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## openseas (Dec 27, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> 30 BLD solves a day?!? That’s absolutely got to help. Looks like you are on track to close in on the 1:00 range consistently pretty soon.



It may sound like a lot but not actually.
I'm averaging around 1:10, so, scrambling + fixing DNF'd session combined, roughly 2 min/attempt. I try to do 10 in the morning, 10 in the afternoon, and the last 10 in the evening or night. So, 20min per each session.


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## pglewis (Dec 27, 2018)

openseas said:


> ... Also, tried to do practice solve at least 30 per day - it seems to make difference in terms of stability and memo.



Scaling that down to my times, I think I'll try to target 8-12 daily 3bld solves soon. Plus I really want to get back in shape for mbld... when I left off I had done a legit 7 cube attempt right before the busy spell interrupted.


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## One Wheel (Dec 28, 2018)

Accomplishment and a gripe/advice request:

Second ever sub-4:00 6x6! 3:58.xx on the 2-6 relay for the WC. 

Tried 3BLD for the WC yesterday, 3 DNFs. The first cube my sister interrupted me mid-memo, but I was able to keep going. Last cube my dad interrupted me as I was finishing memo, and I lost the whole thing and couldn’t even concentrate to start over. It doesn’t help that I’m changing my lettering scheme so I can use it for big blind, but do you have anything like that? I can speedsolve when he’s around, but once he walks in the room and opens his mouth any chance of memorizing anything go out the window. He’s living with me right now and working part time, so he’s bound to be around some. I’ve got 5 weeks to learn 4BLD and hopefully 5BLD, this is not looking good. 

Slightly off topic: I like my YLM 6x6 that I magnetized, and I also magnetized a stickerless pink Yuxin Blue and replaced orange with black, so now all my mains for 3-7 are stickerless.


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## Mike Hughey (Dec 28, 2018)

I've learned to do a lot of my BLD practice (especially big BLD) very late at night, after everyone else goes to bed. It works well, and has the added advantage that I'm more experienced than most people at doing BLD even when I'm very tired. 

Also, distraction training is very good in the long run. However, if you have a 5 week deadline, that's probably not such a good thing. If I were you, I'd try to find a way to allow yourself to be undistracted. I can understand how that might be challenging for you, though - I certainly find it challenging.


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## One Wheel (Dec 28, 2018)

Mike Hughey said:


> I've learned to do a lot of my BLD practice (especially big BLD) very late at night, after everyone else goes to bed. It works well, and has the added advantage that I'm more experienced than most people at doing BLD even when I'm very tired.
> 
> Also, distraction training is very good in the long run. However, if you have a 5 week deadline, that's probably not such a good thing. If I were you, I'd try to find a way to allow yourself to be undistracted. I can understand how that might be challenging for you, though - I certainly find it challenging.


Thanks for reminding me of the late night thing. I think nearly all of my few successes have come late at night, as well as a few of my best DNFs. I’m usually the first to bed and almost always the first one up, so it may be difficult, but I’ll see what I can do.


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## Mike Hughey (Dec 28, 2018)

One Wheel said:


> Thanks for reminding me of the late night thing. I think nearly all of my few successes have come late at night, as well as a few of my best DNFs. I’m usually the first to bed and almost always the first one up, so it may be difficult, but I’ll see what I can do.


Yes, I've had success with early morning too, although I usually find it pretty hard to get good times for the first half hour or so after I get up.


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## pglewis (Dec 28, 2018)

One Wheel said:


> Accomplishment and a gripe/advice request:
> 
> Second ever sub-4:00 6x6! 3:58.xx on the 2-6 relay for the WC.
> 
> ...



Things I have tried, fwiw. 

Distraction: practice sessions at my local coffee shop, probably not convenient if you're rural. Also various YT videos with distraction noises; busy cafe, city street noises... whatever I can find. I've had as many as 4 or 5 different ones set at various relative volumes running at once in the past. 

Concentration: Headphones with various ambient white noise videos; snowstorm, rain, 2 hours of pirate ship sounds. I've used these during my home mbld attempts. Obviously not comp legal but I'm 100% green and working to find my limits so I wanted the best possible environment for these early attempts. 

Not sure any of that would be much help for your situation vs. just trying to give them a heads up not to disturb you for an hour or so if possible. Good ol' ear plugs or passive hearing protectors might also help and are also comp kosher as long as they're not electronic, I believe. 

Nice job on the 6x6! Your singles are closing in on my 4x4 averages


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## pglewis (Dec 28, 2018)

And a quick one for all the experienced mbld folks: is there an ideal breakdown for memo/execution time? Memo is the current bottleneck so I want to work out ideal memo time and work backwards from that. My 7 attempt was just over on time but was doable, if I wanna get crazy and set a goalpost at 10 I should work out how fast the memo needs to be to get there.


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## Mike Hughey (Dec 28, 2018)

pglewis said:


> And a quick one for all the experienced mbld folks: is there an ideal breakdown for memo/execution time? Memo is the current bottleneck so I want to work out ideal memo time and work backwards from that. My 7 attempt was just over on time but was doable, if I wanna get crazy and set a goalpost at 10 I should work out how fast the memo needs to be to get there.


To me,. the breakdown isn't necessarily a ratio for multi. Basically you should figure out how fast you can slowly solve the number of cubes you want to solve, add a few minutes, and take the rest of the time memorizing. So if you're going for 10, ask how fast you can slowly solve 10 cubes in BLD style, add a few minutes, and take the rest of the time memorizing. Once you get past 6 cubes so that you have the full hour, for me that has always gone to somewhere between 40 and 45 minutes memorizing time (since I seem to speed up on solving time at about the same rate that I tend to speed up on memorizing time).

I'm currently regularly practicing 16 cubes, and I generally take about 42 minutes to memorize, and I usually end now with a couple of minutes to spare.


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## pglewis (Dec 28, 2018)

Mike Hughey said:


> Once you get past 6 cubes so that you have the full hour, for me that has always gone to somewhere between 40 and 45 minutes memorizing time (since I seem to speed up on solving time at about the same rate that I tend to speed up on memorizing time).



I was already at that point when life interrupted. Based on other good advice I didn't wait for a N/N success to move forward and pushed through increasing attempts until finally just going over the hour limit at 7. Luckily my retention seems good there, pretty sure I was 100% on what I memo'ed when I went through the postmortem. I can't recall the result, somewhere from 2-4/7 but mostly small mistakes... if it was 2/7 then it was a very encouraging 2/7. 

I still need to get my blind solving legs back first but the beauty of being so slow is it shouldn't take too long to get it back.

Edit to add that going by my typical splits, 2:00 for execution feels like a comfortable target. I'm capable of faster but my recall during mbld is slower than 3bld so it gives cushion. At 6 mins / cube that means 4 mins for memo and breaks down to a 40/20 overall split which feels reasonable. It's a very bizarre thought but it seems perfectly within my ability on paper, after brush up and some targeted drills on the memo side. The idea of three felt like a stretch when I went into this.


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## openseas (Dec 28, 2018)

pglewis said:


> I was already at that point when life interrupted. Based on other good advice I didn't wait for a N/N success to move forward and pushed through increasing attempts until finally just going over the hour limit at 7. Luckily my retention seems good there, pretty sure I was 100% on what I memo'ed when I went through the postmortem. I can't recall the result, somewhere from 2-4/7 but mostly small mistakes... if it was 2/7 then it was a very encouraging 2/7.
> 
> I still need to get my blind solving legs back first but the beauty of being so slow is it shouldn't take too long to get it back.
> 
> Edit to add that going by my typical splits, 2:00 for execution feels like a comfortable target. I'm capable of faster but my recall during mbld is slower than 3bld so it gives cushion. At 6 mins / cube that means 4 mins for memo and breaks down to a 40/20 overall split which feels reasonable. It's a very bizarre thought but it seems perfectly within my ability on paper, after brush up and some targeted drills on the memo side. The idea of three felt like a stretch when I went into this.




First, everybody here knows that how terrible I am in MBLD, so, this is at your own risk 

I'm with Mike, 40 / 20 split if you have a full hour. My single BLD execution is about 30~40s but it seems to be way over 1 minute for MBLD. Part of reasons, 1) trying to go slower to make less errors, 2) recall (I mean the whole room for one cube) before I execute to reduce errors, 3) in between two cubes, trying to confirm whether I'm on the right room (or cube) after each finish, 4) sometimes, I use OP and M2 when I doubt my comms

I'm kinda at the point whether I should go for as many cubes as possible vs accuracy guaranteed N/N mode. Keep in mind that I have not made a success since US Nats with all 11 MBLD attempts. All of them, 5 or 6 /11 DNF. But I noticed that I finished my memo (including recalling and confirming) faster each time.


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## Mike Hughey (Dec 28, 2018)

openseas said:


> Keep in mind that I have not made a success since US Nats with all 11 MBLD attempts. All of them, 5 or 6 /11 DNF. But I noticed that I finished my memo (including recalling and confirming) faster each time.


6/11 is not a DNF? So does that mean they're all 5/11??

I've only ever had one DNF in competition, and that was back in 2009, so I don't remember what the result was. I find that, for me, one extra cube can make a huge accuracy difference. In general, I find that it is very dangerous for me to attempt my at-home limit in competition, while it is much safer if I back off one cube. So right now, I would probably attempt 15 in competition, knowing that I can generally handle 16 safely at home. That policy has led to my near-zero (1/20) DNF results so far.


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## openseas (Dec 28, 2018)

Mike Hughey said:


> 6/11 is not a DNF? So does that mean they're all 5/11??



Oh, yes, 5/11. You can see that now I can't even remember how many cubes were success let alone the whole room memo.

My last success was 8/10 with 53min (back in June) - that's why I moved to 11. I don't see the reason to go back to 10 but just discouraging due to continuous fails. I'm hoping, 3BLD practice makes the whole execution more stable and faster so that my next MBLD attempt wouldn't be that horrible. The only concern for the next MBLD is, it's after midnight - Welcome to 2019 competition. All BLD events will start after midnight - so, it will be really interesting how things will go with all those overnight BLD shows


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## pglewis (Dec 28, 2018)

Mike Hughey said:


> In general, I find that it is very dangerous for me to attempt my at-home limit in competition, while it is much safer if I back off one cube.



This was exactly my thinking; push my at home attempts until I hit the time wall but attempt one or two fewer for comp. If I can get comfortable attempting 10 at home then 8 should feel "easy". Accuracy isn't as much a concern as time management at home right now but I have a healthy respect for the penalty on an official attempt. 

Also, I completely forgot about review in my previous calculations, that's why "4 mins / cube for memo" ain't quite as easy as it looks on paper. So far I've been reviewing previous memos quickly after each new one so it'll have to be quite a bit quicker than 4.


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## Mike Hughey (Dec 28, 2018)

pglewis said:


> Also, I completely forgot about review in my previous calculations, that's why "4 mins / cube for memo" ain't quite as easy as it looks on paper. So far I've been reviewing previous memos quickly after each new one so it'll have to be quite a bit quicker than 4.


Yes, as the number of cubes goes up, the amount of time needed to securely memorize per cube goes up. I can easily memorize 4 cubes in 8 minutes or so, but there's no way I can memorize 16 cubes in 32 minutes - it takes me well over 40 minutes for that.


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## mark49152 (Dec 29, 2018)

pglewis said:


> And a quick one for all the experienced mbld folks: is there an ideal breakdown for memo/execution time? Memo is the current bottleneck so I want to work out ideal memo time and work backwards from that. My 7 attempt was just over on time but was doable, if I wanna get crazy and set a goalpost at 10 I should work out how fast the memo needs to be to get there.


I'm with the others, 40/20, and that seems consistent with most of the solvers I watch on YouTube too - except for those doing 40+, who need to leave a bit more time for execution.

To me, MBLD is all about time management. IMHO it's important to develop a good system of blocks, reviews and checkpoints. I do blocks of 4 and aim for 6 minutes per block for initial memo plus one review checking the tracing too. For a 20 cube attempt I therefore have checkpoints for the first 4 blocks at 6, 12, 18 and 24 mins. After that I quickly review those first 16 cubes, for which I budget 5 mins, before doing the last block - so further checkpoints at 29 and 35 mins. That leaves me a 5 minute safety margin, which I do usually eat into. I consider 38 or less quite safe, as I can then afford a steady execution; sometimes I'll run as late as 42 mins in which case I have to rush execution.


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## pglewis (Dec 29, 2018)

mark49152 said:


> IMHO it's important to develop a good system of blocks, reviews and checkpoints.



Yeah, this was the next thing I was going to have to work out a system for. My jump from attempting 3 to attempting 7 was literally just a few successive days but it was already clear I was going to need to subdivide into groups soon. My instincts would have probably been 5 or 6 per group but I'll wager you've found a good "butter zone", so 4 it is for now.


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## mark49152 (Dec 29, 2018)

pglewis said:


> My instincts would have probably been 5 or 6 per group but I'll wager you've found a good "butter zone", so 4 it is for now.


Some time ago I reviewed several videos of top solvers to see what they do. They fall into two groups. Mark, Maskow and Kamil do their first review every 2 cubes so you could argue their smallest block size is 2. They then review again every 8 cubes and once more at some large number like 24 or 32. Shivam and Graham do first review after 8 cubes and 1 or 2 more later, which I think is the more modern approach. Four is somewhere in between but for the number of cubes I attempt it's in proportion to 8, and my plan is that once I get to 24 cubes I'll start working with blocks of 8 instead.


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## Mike Hughey (Dec 29, 2018)

I was trying to go for blocks of 2 and 8, to copy the experts from a couple of years ago. But since then I've discovered I do better with 2, 4, and 8, which is probably terrible for advancing upward from 16, but it made 16 reachable.

Perhaps I should try 4 and 16. Maybe that would really work for me.

4 is a good block for me because it's one room.


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## pglewis (Dec 30, 2018)

Another reason 4 feels attractive right now is practice time. A full mbld attempt is a time and mental investment for me to undertake at the moment. Besides the hour attempt itself there is scrambling and prep and then postmortem afterwards (which is best done soon after the attempt). All told probably an hour and a half+, one hour of which kinda needs to be during a good focus period. If I can practice blocks of 4 in a half hour or less it feels like I could tool up for full attempts somewhat without always needing to do a full attempt.


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## SpartanSailor (Jan 1, 2019)

FINALLY sat down for some 3BLD practice today. Wow! I’m rusty... string of DNFs with each one slower than the previous—all of which were far slower than I was doing a few months ago. Shouldn’t be too surprised, I suppose. I have had some 3BLD Success recently, just haven’t done any dedicated sessions. Not expecting too much at this comp in a couple weeks. I’ll probably focus more on OH and 7x7 so I can get official times (average for OH, single for 7x7) under the respective cutoffs.


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## pglewis (Jan 1, 2019)

SpartanSailor said:


> FINALLY sat down for some 3BLD practice today. Wow! I’m rusty... string of DNFs with each one slower than the previous—all of which were far slower than I was doing a few months ago. Shouldn’t be too surprised, I suppose. I have had some 3BLD Success recently, just haven’t done any dedicated sessions. Not expecting too much at this comp in a couple weeks. I’ll probably focus more on OH and 7x7 so I can get official times (average for OH, single for 7x7) under the respective cutoffs.



Looks like we're both in remedial 3bld mode. I'll be picking up where I left off on my image pair app as well, even in the prototype stage it has been invaluable for me... much better than the old spreadsheet I started with. I'll be creating a post around here once I get that dusted off. 

Good luck on the upcoming comp!


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## CLL Smooth (Jan 1, 2019)

The zen master worries not of pops. He will always find his inner piece.
I think mine is lost somewhere in the LEGO bin...


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## One Wheel (Jan 7, 2019)

The stars aligned! I got a solid 6x6 solve all the way through with no OLL parities, smashed my 3:54.xx single PB with a 3:46.88. The YLM 6 M is breaking in beautifully. 

I almost have the algs down to actually start trying 4BLD solves.


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## SpartanSailor (Jan 8, 2019)

Wow.... 8 in a row DNF working on 3BLD. Mostly silly errors. I am seriously out of my league right now. LOL


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## SpartanSailor (Jan 8, 2019)

One Wheel said:


> The stars aligned! I got a solid 6x6 solve all the way through with no OLL parities, smashed my 3:54.xx single PB with a 3:46.88. The YLM 6 M is breaking in beautifully.
> 
> I almost have the algs down to actually start trying 4BLD solves.


Damn! Very nicely done!! I hope to learn all the algs in 2019 for 4BLD too... I want that to be smooth before I get too ambitious with 4BLD attempts.


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## Boogie dude (Jan 8, 2019)

Hello fellow cubers. I was directed here by a fellow mature cuber, I will be 50 next month. So I was around when the Rubik’s cube craze started. 
I am reading a few posts, and seeing a lot of abbreviations. Hopefully I will become conversant in time.
My main solve method is the cross then build the layers. 
But I am now looking at the roux method,
I am currently considering a new speed cube.
A few years back I set myself a goal of a sub 1 minute solve and managed it. I even got down to 32 seconds but my long term goal is to get sub 20 seconds every time.
Another of my goals is to get my turning technique better. But I need to understand notation better.
But I am just enjoying solving my cube again.


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## SpartanSailor (Jan 8, 2019)

Welcome to the oldies group... just ask I you need an acronym spelled out or explained!


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## JanW (Jan 8, 2019)

Hello oldies! I haven't been around in about 6 months, haven't had much spare time for cubing lately either. Work has been hectic and I also spent two months in Africa, where I would occasionally do some blind solving on the balcony, with a beautiful view of the Atlantic ocean, which makes me wonder why I chose an activity that required I have my eyes closed...

The other day I had some friends over who got interested in my cubes and to my horror I found my skills have deteriorated to the point where I cannot even remember any R-perms after a few glasses of glühwein. Looks like I need some more practice. 

Any interesting developments in the scene? Any new hardware I need to check out? Any of you oldies set a world record yet? Is this thread still heavily focused on bld (from the looks of the last page looks like you're all doing mbld by now)?


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## SpartanSailor (Jan 8, 2019)

Welcome back! I find practicing PLLs whilst drinking aids in later recall after a couple glasses of my favourite scotch or whiskey. So... as they say, train how you fight!


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## JanW (Jan 8, 2019)

SpartanSailor said:


> Welcome back! I find practicing PLLs whilst drinking aids in later recall after a couple glasses of my favourite scotch or whiskey. So... as they say, train how you fight!


Thanks! Good idea, I'll keep that in mind!

I had a look at the WCA website and Wow! What is this madness? 3.47 single? 3:01 5bld??


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## SpartanSailor (Jan 8, 2019)

I know. That 3x3 single is insane. Some kid in China... I can’t see that being beat for quite some time. All the stars must have been aligned for that youngster!

The 5BLD is borderline insulting, for those of us that can’t even barely solve a sighted 5x5 that fast or 3BLD that fast! It’s remarkable how fast these times are....


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## Mike Hughey (Jan 8, 2019)

I suppose it's possible that 3x3x3 single will last a while, but I'm not sure of that. Max Park is just amazing, and he tends to be as good in competition as he is at home. He has a 3.14 single PB at home, along with a 4.15 mean of 3, a 4.64 average of 5, and a 5.75 average of 10,000. (Yes, that's 10,000!!!) So while it would take some luck, Max does go to a lot of competitions, and I could see him doing it someday soon if he gets a bit lucky.

As for Stanley's 3:01 5BLD, yeah, that's Stanley for you. He just knocks them out like they're nothing. I was really happy to get my PB a few months ago and get second place to him, with a time that was only one minute more than 3 times his winning time.  To think I used to be competitive at this...


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## SpartanSailor (Jan 8, 2019)

I agree about Max. Playing the numbers he could do it sooner than anyone else that comes to mind. I still think it’ll take a bit for all that to align...even for Max. But hey, I’m just guessing and look forward to when it does happen. 

Although selfishly, I’m more excited about getting my OWN sub-20 average someday. Lol... I’m not sure which will happen first; my first official sub-20 Ao5 or Max breaking the 333 WR single!


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## Mike Hughey (Jan 8, 2019)

SpartanSailor said:


> Although selfishly, I’m more excited about getting my OWN sub-20 average someday. Lol... I’m not sure which will happen first; my first official sub-20 Ao5 or Max breaking the 333 WR single!


I hope you get there quicker than me - when I was at your speed in competition (2010), it took me 3 more years before I got my first official sub-20. And to this day, I still only have 2 of them.


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## SpartanSailor (Jan 8, 2019)

It took me all of 2018 to inch down from 23.5ish to 22.7ish... I’m slow to improve, but I enjoy the process.


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## pglewis (Jan 8, 2019)

Boogie dude said:


> Hello fellow cubers. I was directed here by a fellow mature cuber, I will be 50 next month. So I was around when the Rubik’s cube craze started.
> I am reading a few posts, and seeing a lot of abbreviations. Hopefully I will become conversant in time.
> My main solve method is the cross then build the layers.
> But I am now looking at the roux method,
> ...



Welcome! I'm about to hit 51 in a couple weeks, you're in the right place. Lots of helpful folks around here with similar stories. I had an original Rubik's back in the early 80s myself and rediscovered it a few years ago with all the renewed interest in the puzzle. "Enjoy yourself" is the only rule around here. 



JanW said:


> Hello oldies! I haven't been around in about 6 months, haven't had much spare time for cubing lately either. Work has been hectic and I also spent two months in Africa, where I would occasionally do some blind solving on the balcony, with a beautiful view of the Atlantic ocean, which makes me wonder why I chose an activity that required I have my eyes closed...
> 
> The other day I had some friends over who got interested in my cubes and to my horror I found my skills have deteriorated to the point where I cannot even remember any R-perms after a few glasses of glühwein. Looks like I need some more practice.
> 
> Any interesting developments in the scene? Any new hardware I need to check out? Any of you oldies set a world record yet? Is this thread still heavily focused on bld (from the looks of the last page looks like you're all doing mbld by now)?



Great to see you check in, I was just wondering how you've been last week. I picked up quite a few 3x3 tricks from you and you were getting respectably fast when life intervened. I'm still slowly inching down through the 20s; 18s and 19s aren't as frequent as I'd like yet but those only get a yawn now, takes a 16 or 17 single to raise my pulse. 

Hardware: not a lot to speak of over the past 6 months, other than the latest Gan. I have a 354M and it's a very good puzzle and hands-down the most aesthetically pleasing 3x3 I've owned but they've pushed the price point on the 356X too far for my curiosity. And TBH, a $20-$25 factory GTS2-M is still hard to beat for my tastes anyway. 

There is also a new-ish oldies group on FaceBook with many familiar faces and some new-to-me ones, if you frequent that territory. 



Mike Hughey said:


> I hope you get there quicker than me - when I was at your speed in competition (2010), it took me 3 more years before I got my first official sub-20. And to this day, I still only have 2 of them.



I think you were world class in mbld in 2010 so I imagine it was difficult to find the time to spam lots of 3x3 solves as well. Having _just_ got back to peak on 3x3 and looking ahead to tooling up 3bld and mbld... dunno how some of you mbld and big bld gurus maintain anything else.


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## SpartanSailor (Jan 8, 2019)

> . I'm still slowly inching down through the 20s; 18s and 19s aren't as frequent as I'd like yet but those only get a yawn now, takes a 16 or 17 single to raise my pulse.



@pglewis we are at the same exact point. If I get a string of 18s and 19s (like 3 in a row as happened last night)... that will get a fist pump out of me too. I did manage a 15.21 last night which I believe is my second fastest single ever...


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## pglewis (Jan 8, 2019)

SpartanSailor said:


> @pglewis we are at the same exact point. If I get a string of 18s and 19s (like 3 in a row as happened last night)... that will get a fist pump out of me too. I did manage a 15.21 last night which I believe is my second fastest single ever...



We keep shuffling along together, I nearly catch up and then you hit a breakthrough. That should bode well for you . 

I'm also still gearing up to join you with remedial 3bld. I've dusted off my letter pair app in order to prototype some things I need to learn for the day job, so I have an semi-valid excuse to practice a few 3bld solves while "working".


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## Boogie dude (Jan 8, 2019)

i have just ordered 2 cubes.
the gans 354m 3x3 cube.
and the xiaomi giiker cube.
the latter cube is for my 50th so I will have to wait til mid feb to try it.
but very excited to try the magnetic cube.
TBH when I was researching what cube to buy, my head was spinning.
I will report back on my progress.


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## JanW (Jan 9, 2019)

pglewis said:


> Great to see you check in, I was just wondering how you've been last week. I picked up quite a few 3x3 tricks from you and you were getting respectably fast when life intervened. I'm still slowly inching down through the 20s; 18s and 19s aren't as frequent as I'd like yet but those only get a yawn now, takes a 16 or 17 single to raise my pulse.


Nice progress! I have no idea what I would average right now. Last weekend I did one timed solve when my friend insisted, first timed solve in 6 months, and somehow managed to clock in at 21 seconds despite the added pressure of an audience and resorting to 2-look OLL when I couldn't remember the case. So it seems it's still in there somewhere! I'll try to get in an Ao100 soon, just have to review some OLLs first.

For some reason I've been playing a lot with my 6x6 the last couple of days. I think I have only solved it once or twice before, right after I got it. It's still very tight, but I'm not sure how I should go about adjusting the tensions. What kind of indicators should I look for to tell that it isn't too loose or tight? It's a WuHua, if that makes a difference.


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## JohnnyReggae (Jan 9, 2019)

pglewis said:


> I have a 354M and it's a very good puzzle and hands-down the most aesthetically pleasing 3x3 I've owned but they've pushed the price point on the 356X too far for my curiosity. And TBH, a $20-$25 factory GTS2-M is still hard to beat for my tastes anyway.


The 354m is an amazing cube which I'm currently using for OH. The 356X on the other hand is even better than the 354m for 2H. It has a softer turning feel and the pieces also feel a little rounder. The 354m has a sharp feeling in the hands. As for the price, yes I agree GAN are pushing it a bit. I did get mine from cubezz.com whose prices are a lot better than anywhere else. I paid $43 for mine whereas TheCubicle is $57 for the IPG v5 version.



Boogie dude said:


> i have just ordered 2 cubes.
> the gans 354m 3x3 cube.
> and the xiaomi giiker cube.
> the latter cube is for my 50th so I will have to wait til mid feb to try it.
> ...


I'll also be celebrating my 50th this year. Not sure if I should be happy or sad about that yet as I will officially be "over the hill" as they say 

I'm considering getting the Giiker. Was close to hitting the add-to-basket button yesterday but it is $50 and then at least another $20 shipping, that's if I don't want to wait for the free shipping option, which unfortunately for me will be at least 4 months with our rather pathetic postal service. So $20 doesn't seem such a bad trade-off then.


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## One Wheel (Jan 9, 2019)

JanW said:


> For some reason I've been playing a lot with my 6x6 the last couple of days. I think I have only solved it once or twice before, right after I got it. It's still very tight, but I'm not sure how I should go about adjusting the tensions. What kind of indicators should I look for to tell that it isn't too loose or tight? It's a WuHua, if that makes a difference.


6x6 hardware is finnicky, and requires fairly tight tensions for stability relative to other size cubes. Personally I loosen it until I start getting lockups, then tighten maybe 1/8 of a turn. If you have the time and/or money I strongly recommend a magnetic 6x6. In other cubes magnets are nice, for 6x6 magnets are a complete game changer.


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## xyzzy (Jan 9, 2019)

JanW said:


> For some reason I've been playing a lot with my 6x6 the last couple of days. I think I have only solved it once or twice before, right after I got it. It's still very tight, but I'm not sure how I should go about adjusting the tensions. What kind of indicators should I look for to tell that it isn't too loose or tight? It's a WuHua, if that makes a difference.





One Wheel said:


> 6x6 hardware is finnicky, and requires fairly tight tensions for stability relative to other size cubes. Personally I loosen it until I start getting lockups, then tighten maybe 1/8 of a turn. If you have the time and/or money I strongly recommend a magnetic 6x6. In other cubes magnets are nice, for 6x6 magnets are a complete game changer.


I used to have my Wuhua on super loose tensions to make it not-slow, and my general strategy was to hope that it didn't pop… but it popped a lot, so maybe that wasn't the best idea. (There was a comp last year where I decided not to register for 666 because I was afraid of the cube exploding mid-solve.)

I think one of the major benefits of magnets (especially in big cubes) is that they reduce the occurrences of minor lockups a lot, and while individually each of those little lockups don't add much time, a 666 solve is _long_ and there'll be many opportunities for the cube to lock up. Even if speed isn't a concern, (i) it's probably better for your hands and (ii) it makes the puzzle more fun to play with.


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## Mike Hughey (Jan 9, 2019)

I agree with magnets on 6x6x6 being a game-changer. The only puzzle where I think they make an even bigger difference for me is megaminx, where the difference is just huge. Then again, I still solve megaminx in my hands, not on the table; I doubt magnets would make as big a difference on megaminx if I were willing to solve it on the table, but solving on the table still feels like cheating to me.


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## JanW (Jan 9, 2019)

Thanks for the tips all! I might consider a magnetized 6x6 one day. For now I'll keep loosening the tensions until it locks up too much. It hasn't popped yet. I can admit that I fear that moment a bit, since I've never taken apart and put together a cube of this size. Maybe I should take it apart to get over that fear.

I remember seeing a video review of some 6x6, I think by Kevin Hays, where he said he would break it in with 500-600 solves before giving his final verdict. If that's how many it takes, I'm guessing mine will never be properly broken in.


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## One Wheel (Jan 9, 2019)

JanW said:


> Thanks for the tips all! I might consider a magnetized 6x6 one day. For now I'll keep loosening the tensions until it locks up too much. It hasn't popped yet. I can admit that I fear that moment a bit, since I've never taken apart and put together a cube of this size. Maybe I should take it apart to get over that fear.



FWIW: I’ve disassembled and reassembled several 6x6s. I timed reassembly of my last one, the Yuxin Little Magic after magnetizing. From completely disassembled to completely assembled it took an hour and seven minutes. 



JanW said:


> I remember seeing a video review of some 6x6, I think by Kevin Hays, where he said he would break it in with 500-600 solves before giving his final verdict. If that's how many it takes, I'm guessing mine will never be properly broken in.


I’ve worn out at least one 6x6 with that many solves, there’s obviously going to be some variation, but I’d guess you’ll see significant improvement up to about 100 solves.


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## SpartanSailor (Jan 9, 2019)

One Wheel said:


> 6x6 hardware is finnicky, and requires fairly tight tensions for stability relative to other size cubes. Personally I loosen it until I start getting lockups, then tighten maybe 1/8 of a turn. If you have the time and/or money I strongly recommend a magnetic 6x6. In other cubes magnets are nice, for 6x6 magnets are a complete game changer.


100% about the magnets in larger cubes. I used to hate my 6x6 and 7x7. The inner layers moving all the time ruined whatever enjoyment I could hope to get. With magnets, I enjoy all the larger cubes now. I’m still slow, but I enjoy them.


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## SpartanSailor (Jan 9, 2019)

Mike Hughey said:


> I agree with magnets on 6x6x6 being a game-changer. The only puzzle where I think they make an even bigger difference for me is megaminx, where the difference is just huge. Then again, I still solve megaminx in my hands, not on the table; I doubt magnets would make as big a difference on megaminx if I were willing to solve it on the table, but solving on the table still feels like cheating to me.


I’m holding out to get a Mega with magnets... I just don’t solve it enough to worry about it. Of course, the reason is the same as was for 6x6 and 7x7. It’s not any fun because the layers just move whenever they want. grrrrr!

I may just pull the trigger on a magnetic one and see. I dont use the table either. But I’m also not fast with the Mega either. Maybe if I get fast enuff there’s an advantage for doing it that way? Idk. I don’t see that happening.


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## Mike Hughey (Jan 9, 2019)

SpartanSailor said:


> I may just pull the trigger on a magnetic one and see. I dont use the table either. But I’m also not fast with the Mega either. Maybe if I get fast enuff there’s an advantage for doing it that way? Idk. I don’t see that happening.


You should definitely try a magnetic megaminx. At 20 bucks for a Galaxy V2M, it's cheaper than most magnetic cubes, and it really makes a huge difference. My average time dropped by over 30 seconds instantly when I got one, because prior to that, like you said, the layers just moved on me whenever they wanted. I used to hate solving megaminx because it was so unpleasant with all the lockups, but now I actually rather like solving it.


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## SpartanSailor (Jan 9, 2019)

Mike Hughey said:


> You should definitely try a magnetic megaminx. At 20 bucks for a Galaxy V2M, it's cheaper than most magnetic cubes, and it really makes a huge difference. My average time dropped by over 30 seconds instantly when I got one, because prior to that, like you said, the layers just moved on me whenever they wanted. I used to hate solving megaminx because it was so unpleasant with all the lockups, but now I actually rather like solving it.


Have you tried the galaxy V2M L? I am partial to a slightly larger puzzle (physical size).


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## One Wheel (Jan 9, 2019)

This talk of magnetic Megaminxes is making my wallet itchy.


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## SpartanSailor (Jan 9, 2019)

I know....


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## Boogie dude (Jan 9, 2019)

I have been watching some tutorials on speedcubing and different methods. 
And it all seems a little mind blowing. 
Can anyone tell me if when they started speedcubing thought they would never break through barriers.
I solved my cube around 10 times in a row my best time was 49 secs. And slowest was 1:02. 
I know it’s very early but is there hope for me. Please give me some hope.
I am still using CFOP.
Thanks.


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## xyzzy (Jan 9, 2019)

Boogie dude said:


> I have been watching some tutorials on speedcubing and different methods.
> And it all seems a little mind blowing.
> Can anyone tell me if when they started speedcubing thought they would never break through barriers.
> I solved my cube around 10 times in a row my best time was 49 secs. And slowest was 1:02.
> ...


There was a time I thought I'd never break a minute, and then I did.
There was a time I thought I'd never break 20 seconds, and then I did.
There was a time I thought I'd never break 15 seconds, and then I did.

These days I think I'll never break 10 seconds, and… I'm not there yet, not even close, but I'm still trying!

If you're just starting out, don't focus on the people who can solve it almost ten times as fast as you are. There's no way you'll get close to that level with only a few weeks/months of practice; those are people who have dedicated years to the craft. Start on the barriers that seem achievable first, e.g. trying to go under 50 seconds consistently. Then gradually go lower, and lower, and lower, until you're satisfied with the times you're getting.


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## mark49152 (Jan 9, 2019)

Boogie dude said:


> Please give me some hope.


You'll break through those barriers and set yourself new ones, then break those as well. It just takes practice. Things that seem daunting today will one day seem easy with hindsight.


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## One Wheel (Jan 9, 2019)

Boogie dude said:


> I have been watching some tutorials on speedcubing and different methods.
> And it all seems a little mind blowing.
> Can anyone tell me if when they started speedcubing thought they would never break through barriers.
> I solved my cube around 10 times in a row my best time was 49 secs. And slowest was 1:02.
> ...


Definitely hope. Around a minute is an excellent starting point. Keep working on it, and you’ll be under 40 seconds in no time, then 30, 25, 20, etc. I’ve been at it close to 4 years and average about 28. I’ll get under 20 someday, but not everybody can be Feliks Zemdegs or Max Park, either.


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## Mike Hughey (Jan 9, 2019)

Boogie dude said:


> I have been watching some tutorials on speedcubing and different methods.
> And it all seems a little mind blowing.
> Can anyone tell me if when they started speedcubing thought they would never break through barriers.
> I solved my cube around 10 times in a row my best time was 49 secs. And slowest was 1:02.
> ...


LOL yes, there's very much hope!
I wasn't that fast when I first got serious about speedcubing.
My first competition, I had already spent six months seriously speedcubing and improved a lot, and I still got a 40 second average. Although I did manage to get a successful blindfolded solve in that competition too, since I fell in love with blindfolded solving about 3 months after I got serious about speedcubing, and practiced like crazy on that for 3 months straight.
And a few years later, I was winning national titles for blindsolving.
And now I'm awful compared to the kids that are winning competitions now. But I'm still having fun! 

As for it sounding mindblowing, that's how it is at first. Just pick a small amount to work on and focus on that, and keep your goals limited. Eventually that little bit will make sense, and then a little more will, and before you know it, you'll be trying all kinds of things and able to make much faster progress.


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## SpartanSailor (Jan 9, 2019)

Boogie dude said:


> I have been watching some tutorials on speedcubing and different methods.
> And it all seems a little mind blowing.
> Can anyone tell me if when they started speedcubing thought they would never break through barriers.
> I solved my cube around 10 times in a row my best time was 49 secs. And slowest was 1:02.
> ...


Definitely that’s a good spot for now. I still have a lot of variability. I had the opposite experience regarding “I’ll never...”
I tend to say, “I’ll be satisfied when I get...”

Then that keeps moving every time I get what ever I said. I DO NOT think I will ever get sub-10, but even though I’m still trying to go sub-20, I believe someday I’ll be closer to 16s or so. But for now, “I’ll be happy with sub-20.” (Until I’m not)

Oh, I I think most people use CFOP... I certainly still do.


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## Boogie dude (Jan 9, 2019)

Thanks for the replies. Hopefully get my Gan cube very soon.


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## pglewis (Jan 9, 2019)

Boogie dude said:


> I have been watching some tutorials on speedcubing and different methods.
> And it all seems a little mind blowing.
> Can anyone tell me if when they started speedcubing thought they would never break through barriers.
> I solved my cube around 10 times in a row my best time was 49 secs. And slowest was 1:02.
> ...



Methods: for the most part they're just different with similar potential and it comes down to personal preference. Some people really enjoy experimenting with lots of methods and we're in this for the enjoyment. If the different methods feel overwhelming you can rest assured that CFOP is certainly good enough. 

I set a goal of a sub :20 Ao5 back when I was at about 1:30 because it felt like a completely ridiculous goal to set. I haven't come close on official avg yet but I have managed it at home once on a really good day. I had to move my goal to sub :10 now to remain reasonably "crazy". 

If you're using the beginners' method of solving bottom corners first and then edges separately then I would start learn F2L next. That can be frustrating because it will initially slow you but pushing beginners' method faster is a dead-end. My main improvements are still mostly from improving F2L and lookahead. 

If you are using F2L, start noting cases that give you trouble and find better ways of handling them. It takes a while and practice but it does come together. Recording a few solves and watching back is probably the most helpful thing, when I'm watching back without actively solving it's painfully obvious how much I pause. Getting rid of those pauses is the key.


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## openseas (Jan 10, 2019)

Boogie dude said:


> I have been watching some tutorials on speedcubing and different methods.
> And it all seems a little mind blowing.
> Can anyone tell me if when they started speedcubing thought they would never break through barriers.
> I solved my cube around 10 times in a row my best time was 49 secs. And slowest was 1:02.
> ...



Wow, I have not received any email notifications for a while, missed all these stories!

Welcome @Boogie dude !

I think we were all there where you are. I started just hoping to finish without looking at algorithm table, then broke 1 min. Started competing & immediately became the oldest (in that competition) and also the slowest - almost every competition for a while. Couple of month later, learned intuitive F2L, broke 50s, learned all PLL, broke 40s. But I'm still around 20s, year and half, I have not broken my official PB average since 2017 June


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## SpartanSailor (Jan 10, 2019)

Pulled the trigger on the x-man megaminx V2L M. Thought about after earlier today and decided to go for it.


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## Boogie dude (Jan 10, 2019)

openseas said:


> Wow, I have not received any email notifications for a while, missed all these stories!
> 
> Welcome @Boogie dude !
> 
> I think we were all there where you are. I started just hoping to finish without looking at algorithm table, then broke 1 min. Started competing & immediately became the oldest (in that competition) and also the slowest - almost every competition for a while. Couple of month later, learned intuitive F2L, broke 50s, learned all PLL, broke 40s. But I'm still around 20s, year and half, I have not broken my official PB average since 2017 June


what cube do you use ?


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## openseas (Jan 10, 2019)

Boogie dude said:


> what cube do you use ?



For 3BLD, Gan 356X. I switched magnets in the capsules. Instead of originals, I replaced with 3x1.5mm N35 magnets to make the force much weaker.
For 3x3x3, GTS 3 + 3x1 / 3x1.5 magnets.


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## AbsoRuud (Jan 10, 2019)

Boogie dude said:


> I have been watching some tutorials on speedcubing and different methods.
> And it all seems a little mind blowing.
> Can anyone tell me if when they started speedcubing thought they would never break through barriers.
> I solved my cube around 10 times in a row my best time was 49 secs. And slowest was 1:02.
> ...



My original goal was 30 seconds, which I never thought I'd get. My PB is 25 now. So now my goal is 20, and I think I'll actually get it. I just need to practice smarter. Other goals for this year include solving the 4x4x4 (check), solving the 5x5x5 (check), so I'm doing pretty well.

I am 100% sure though I will never break 4.22 seconds, which was the WR when I started cubing. So if you're hoping to beat that, I can't give you much hope!


----------



## Boogie dude (Jan 10, 2019)

How many here have solved the 11 x 11 ? I have done it a few times.
Oh and I just ordered the Valk 3 m power. I think I may have a problem with ordering cubes now.


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## One Wheel (Jan 10, 2019)

Boogie dude said:


> How many here have solved the 11 x 11 ? I have done it a few times.


I did a 10x10 twice, second time in about 1:06, but I’ve never had an 11x11. 



Boogie dude said:


> I think I may have a problem with ordering cubes now.


Welcome to the club!


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## mark49152 (Jan 10, 2019)

Boogie dude said:


> How many here have solved the 11 x 11 ? I have done it a few times.


Anything bigger than 5x5, I quickly get bored.


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## Mike Hughey (Jan 10, 2019)

mark49152 said:


> Anything bigger than 5x5, I quickly get bored.


Aww, centers are my favorite part. With speedsolving, anything smaller than a 5x5x5, I quickly get bored. 

But unfortunately I've never owned more than an 8x8x8. I need to get a bigger cube someday.


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## Boogie dude (Jan 10, 2019)

Today’s triumph for me, 41.75 solve time. Considering I’m using my old sloppy method, I am well pleased.
So my new goal is sub 40 secs, I have a load of algorithms to relearn. But I can see sub 30 times in a matter of maybe a good months practice. I can even see a sub 20 in the future. If you can believe you can achieve.


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## mark49152 (Jan 10, 2019)

Mike Hughey said:


> Aww, centers are my favorite part. With speedsolving, anything smaller than a 5x5x5, I quickly get bored.


5x5 is a great puzzle - very well balanced in that it's a good mix of piece types none of which disproportionately dominate the solve.


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## One Wheel (Jan 10, 2019)

mark49152 said:


> 5x5 is a great puzzle - very well balanced in that it's a good mix of piece types none of which disproportionately dominate the solve.


6x6 is still best. 3x3 stage is too important on anything smaller, 7x7 takes too long and there’s not as much flexibility in centers.


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## mark49152 (Jan 10, 2019)

One Wheel said:


> 6x6 is still best.


6x6 is still good. It adds a little more to 5x5, but centres do start to drag on a bit. 

Anything above 6x6 just adds boredom.


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## Mike Hughey (Jan 10, 2019)

mark49152 said:


> Anything above 6x6 just adds boredom.


Can't ... find ... dislike ... button ...


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## mark49152 (Jan 10, 2019)

Do you have lots of tricks for solving centres, Mike? How do you keep it interesting? Maybe I find them boring because I have a boring way of solving them .


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## pglewis (Jan 10, 2019)

Mike Hughey said:


> Can't ... find ... dislike ... button ...



Heheh, "Don't yuck my yum!"


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## JohnnyReggae (Jan 11, 2019)

Boogie dude said:


> How many here have solved the 11 x 11 ? I have done it a few times.
> Oh and I just ordered the Valk 3 m power. I think I may have a problem with ordering cubes now.


I don't have anything bigger than a 9x9 unfortunately, but will get there ... sometime  The Valk Power is a great cube IMO. I used it as my main for a while and even switched my OH (One Hand) cube from the GTS2 to it. It's really smooth but carries weight so feels nicely sturdy. Yeah welcome to the club of buying cubes. I bit the bullet and ordered the Giiker i3S this week.



One Wheel said:


> 6x6 is still best. 3x3 stage is too important on anything smaller, 7x7 takes too long and there’s not as much flexibility in centers.


A while back I would have disagreed, but I do prefer 6x6 to 7x7. It has some to do with the hardware and being able to turn easily without issues. I have a Wuji and I'm still not impressed with it. Granted it's not magnetised ... but still. I'd like to get a 7x7 that is a pleasure to solve on. The Hays M seems to be great, but the X-Man Shadow is due for release soon ....


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## Sergey (Jan 11, 2019)

JohnnyReggae said:


> X-Man Shadow is due for release soon ....


Shadow is 6x6, 7x7 is Spark and already released on about January, 5.


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## Boogie dude (Jan 11, 2019)

My gan 354m just turned up. So far out the box, very impressed.


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## JohnnyReggae (Jan 11, 2019)

Sergey said:


> Shadow is 6x6, 7x7 is Spark and already released on about January, 5.


Yup, you're right  Although TheCubicle only has it on pre-order at the moment. I'll see if cubezz are stocking it yet.


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## Sergey (Jan 11, 2019)

JohnnyReggae said:


> Yup, you're right  Although TheCubicle only has it on pre-order at the moment. I'll see if cubezz are stocking it yet.


Already available through some China stores and the number of proposals is growing.


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## openseas (Jan 13, 2019)

Brief update.
After 1st two attempts DNF, a desperate effort to make first official success of 2019 lead to 1TPS exe + more than a minute memo resulted in 2:10 success. On top of that, it was a scheduled 2 round comp, expected to do better in the next round but, guess what, 2 no shows, canceled the 2nd round (needed at least 8 but only 6 competed).

Well, next week. Jeff got first sub 20 of 1) 2019, 2) UFR, 3) my scramble 
He had 19, 21, so quite possible to break mean WR on 3rd but ended with 19 DNF.


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## Boogie dude (Jan 14, 2019)

I have been spending lots of time solving my cube, my valk 3 power m turned up today, I am very pleased with it but I ordered the black stickered version, but the white stickerless turned up. so I will be getting the stickered version. my main goal is to start to recognise oll's and pll's and memories all pll's and 2 look oll. then I will start working on the roux method.


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## Sergey (Jan 14, 2019)

Boogie dude, stickerless is more pragmatic in terms of good looking for a long time.


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## OldManCuber (Jan 14, 2019)

Hey everyone! Just saying hello, and looking to talk to other old cubers. I'm 50, have been to 2 comps so far, and have a 3x3 PB of 24.08. Dan AKA "OldManCuber"


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## Boogie dude (Jan 14, 2019)

OldManCuber said:


> Hey everyone! Just saying hello, and looking to talk to other old cubers. I'm 50, have been to 2 comps so far, and have a 3x3 PB of 24.08. Dan AKA "OldManCuber"


hi, I will be 50 next month. what cube do you use, and what solving method. i'm nowhere near sub 30 yet.


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## OldManCuber (Jan 14, 2019)

Boogie dude said:


> hi, I will be 50 next month. what cube do you use, and what solving method. i'm nowhere near sub 30 yet.



Hey Boogie Dude, I use a GAN 354 M and CFOP. I know full PLL but still use 2 look OLL. In early 2018, I learned the old Varasano Corner's First method for 3x3, and got a 32.28. How long have you been speedcubing? How much do you practice?


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## h2f (Jan 14, 2019)

Hi @OldManCuber and @Boogie dude. I've found old Varasano book on Internet and I'm studying the method. It seems very interesting.


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## Boogie dude (Jan 14, 2019)

OldManCuber said:


> Hey Boogie Dude, I use a GAN 354 M and CFOP. I know full PLL but still use 2 look OLL. In early 2018, I learned the old Varasano Corner's First method for 3x3, and got a 32.28. How long have you been speedcubing? How much do you practice?


I started cubing when the cube first came out, but since then have had long absenses in between. a few years back I set myself a goal of beating 1 minute, which I do quite regularly, I even hit a 32 years back. I will be happy to break the 30 second barrier for now. I recently got the gan 354 m, excellent cube. but I also got the valk 3 power m and really like that one too.


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## pglewis (Jan 14, 2019)

Is this the same Varasano method that was adapted for 2x2 as Oretega?


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## openseas (Jan 14, 2019)

OldManCuber said:


> Hey everyone! Just saying hello, and looking to talk to other old cubers. I'm 50, have been to 2 comps so far, and have a 3x3 PB of 24.08. Dan AKA "OldManCuber"



Hi Dan,
Welcome aboard! How was your driving back home? I got off another international biz trip the next morning, just landed East Asia. See you often!


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## SpartanSailor (Jan 14, 2019)

Seriously bummed right now. I’ve been looking forward to the arrival of my new Galaxy X-man megaminx V2 LM.... except that a non-magnetic V2 came. I was really excited to get the magnetic version to play with and tryout, but this smaller V2 is lame. Never liked it to begin with. And now that is the one I have. 

I already emailed the company and explained that I will happily send it back since i’m Absolutely not interested in the one they shipped. But I DO want my V2 LM.


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## h2f (Jan 15, 2019)

pglewis said:


> Is this the same Varasano method that was adapted for 2x2 as Oretega?



Yes. But in this time corners first method was very popular due to Rubik's method which was based on the same concept: solve corners, next edges. I've found 2 books by Bosset and Varasano. I've only watched them through but Varasano algs seem much better.There's even sune among them.


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## SpartanSailor (Jan 16, 2019)

pglewis said:


> Is this the same Varasano method that was adapted for 2x2 as Oretega?


Older video. I’d be interested to read the book he mentions.... for entertainment, if nothing else. 

Although, I will point out, that in the years since that video was posted, Chris refers to the 2x2 method as Ortega. He must have lost the motivation to keep telling people the reason he wanted to call it the Verasano Method.


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## Boogie dude (Jan 16, 2019)

Got my giiker cube yesterday. Nice cube and works great with the app. Hate some of the colours.
One positive is I got a sub 35 with the smart timer. Can’t complain there.


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## JohnnyReggae (Jan 16, 2019)

Boogie dude said:


> Got my giiker cube yesterday. Nice cube and works great with the app. Hate some of the colours.
> One positive is I got a sub 35 with the smart timer. Can’t complain there.


Mine arrived a couple days ago. Haven't spent much time with it as my Bluetooth dongle at home is old and doesn't support BTv4. At work it's too noisy to play with. New dongle arrived today so I'm keen to play more tonight.


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## h2f (Jan 16, 2019)

Boogie dude said:


> Got my giiker cube yesterday. Nice cube and works great with the app. Hate some of the colours.
> One positive is I got a sub 35 with the smart timer. Can’t complain there.



https://epdf.tips/jeff-conquers-the-cube-in-45-seconds-and-you-can-too.html

I guess I've found it here.


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## pglewis (Jan 16, 2019)

SpartanSailor said:


> Older video. I’d be interested to read the book he mentions.... for entertainment, if nothing else.
> 
> Although, I will point out, that in the years since that video was posted, Chris refers to the 2x2 method as Ortega. He must have lost the motivation to keep telling people the reason he wanted to call it the Verasano Method.



Changing established names is something that approaches impossible. I expect he just gave up the crusade between that and the fact that Varasano's method is probably more accurately "a major influence on Ortega, along with a few others". He was successful enough that I was aware of Jeff, the connection, and some really interesting history. 

Hope you get the impostor Megaminx situation ironed out. I feel for you vicariously; excitement when the package arrives, you're mentally primed for breaking it in and doing a session, you rip open the package and... _sad trombone_


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## SpartanSailor (Jan 18, 2019)

pglewis said:


> Changing established names is something that approaches impossible. I expect he just gave up the crusade between that and the fact that Varasano's method is probably more accurately "a major influence on Ortega, along with a few others". He was successful enough that I was aware of Jeff, the connection, and some really interesting history.
> 
> Hope you get the impostor Megaminx situation ironed out. I feel for you vicariously; excitement when the package arrives, you're mentally primed for breaking it in and doing a session, you rip open the package and... _sad trombone_


The “mega problem” was sorted out. The company shipped another and gave me a return label. I have no hard feelings toward the company, mistakes happen and they handled it well. But I was incredibly bummed.


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## freshcuber.de (Jan 18, 2019)

I have the giiker cube, too. And I restickered red and orange. Now it's fine.
Since I found the great Giiker Timer website https://hakatashi.github.io/smart-cube-timer/ I forgot how to start the Giiker app.


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## Boogie dude (Jan 18, 2019)

freshcuber.de said:


> I have the giiker cube, too. And I restickered red and orange. Now it's fine.
> Since I found the great Giiker Timer website https://hakatashi.github.io/smart-cube-timer/ I forgot how to start the Giiker app.


Where did you get the stickers ?


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## freshcuber.de (Jan 19, 2019)

Boogie dude said:


> Where did you get the stickers ?



I got them from The Cubicle. They have special Giiker stickers, also with the center hole.
I ordered 2 complete sets, but until now I have only restickered the 2 sides red and orange.


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## newtonbase (Jan 19, 2019)

Hello all and welcome to our new members. Haven't posted for a bit as so many oldies are now on Facebook. 
I've been at the Great British Blind Off today. All blind and FMC. The FMC single and mean WRs were beaten which was exciting. 
My next MBLD goal is 10 points. It seemed a big stretch to try 10 cubes as I've not really practiced but I went for it. Got 5/10 twice. First attempt I solved a cube out of order and the time I wasted fixing it cost me a chance at cubes 9 and 10. Was tired by the 2nd attempt but finished with 13s to spare DNFs included the same flipped edge on 2 cubes and a missed parity. Very promising. Unfortunately I can't go tomorrow to do solve 3 and get my zero point mean. 
4BLD success still eludes me. 
This is my first comp where I haven't completed in 3BLD.


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## h2f (Jan 19, 2019)

Congrats @mark49152 Mark. Nice mo3!


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## openseas (Jan 20, 2019)

Brief wrap-up:

First official sub-20 single for 3x3x3. Since my previous 4 attempts were below average, I didn't expect much but got lucky - Sunne-PLL skip.

3BLD was also a meh, 1 success first round and triple DNF in the final. Two 1:14 DNFs by one flip (both cases) - looks like I traced incorrectly both of them.


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## mark49152 (Jan 20, 2019)

Nice to see @Shaky Hands and @newtonbase this weekend. 

The UK's first blind comp was a mixed bag for me. Nothing went particularly well, and no PBs apart from FMC mean. In MBLD, I carried on trying for 20 cubes, and got 14 and 16 successes in two attempts. It's getting a bit frustrating . In 4BLD, I got a mean in the first round and my 2nd and 3rd fastest singles in comp; I'm happy that I'm slowly getting back to where I was in 2017. 5BLD was triple DNF, and 3BLD was just embarrassing. Although I made it through all 3 rounds of 3BLD, my results were really bad and got progressively worse. The cause was probably a mixture of lack of practice and tiredness, and the scrambles were pretty poor as well.

I enjoyed FMC more than I expected, learned a few new tricks and techniques, and tried them out in official solves. Although my results weren't great, I'm pleased at having applied some new knowledge successfully. Certainly I want to get more into FMC in future.

It was good to see an FMC WR broken and also the long-standing UK MBLD NR was broken too (congrats @Berd).


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## newtonbase (Jan 20, 2019)

mark49152 said:


> It was good to see an FMC WR broken and also the long-standing UK MBLD NR was broken too (congrats @Berd).


Glad the NR has finally gone. I don't think it will last too long though. I'm interested in how good William Wright can get.


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## mark49152 (Jan 20, 2019)

newtonbase said:


> Glad the NR has finally gone. I don't think it will last too long though. I'm interested in how good William Wright can get.


Yeah I think we'll see a good MBLD rivalry between Bertie, Steven and William for a while. Would be good to see some contenders for UK big BLD NRs as well.


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## h2f (Jan 21, 2019)

mark49152 said:


> no PBs apart from FMC mean



I thought in 4bld you got PB mo3.


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## mark49152 (Jan 21, 2019)

h2f said:


> I thought in 4bld you got PB mo3.


I haven't calculated it, but I think it is 6:xx. I got 5:56 mean in 2017.


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## SpartanSailor (Jan 24, 2019)

3/5 with 3BLD attempts today.... not terrible. All in the mid-3 minute range. Gonna try to do 5 a day again between now and my next comp in a couple weeks. I’d like to be solid at that one and get a low-to-mid 3 minute time. 

BTW, for the US oldies... the posted that US Nationals will be in Baltimore, MD, this year Aug 1-4. I’ll definitely be there. So, if you guys go, we will have to coordinate an old-guys dinner or something!


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## openseas (Jan 25, 2019)

SpartanSailor said:


> BTW, for the US oldies... the posted that US Nationals will be in Baltimore, MD, this year Aug 1-4. I’ll definitely be there. So, if you guys go, we will have to coordinate an old-guys dinner or something!



Definitely! I plan to go - already booked a room near the convention center  Who else coming?


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## Mike Hughey (Jan 25, 2019)

SpartanSailor said:


> BTW, for the US oldies... the posted that US Nationals will be in Baltimore, MD, this year Aug 1-4. I’ll definitely be there. So, if you guys go, we will have to coordinate an old-guys dinner or something!



For me it will depend on my family's schedule, but I'd say there's a decent chance I will be there. I have family near there; I grew up near there. So it is really a pretty nice location for me. I will probably stay either at my parents' house (about 1 1/2 hours away) or my sister's house (about 45 minutes away), so I don't need to book a hotel. 

Odds are I will sign up soon for it and just hope I can actually make it when the time comes.


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## SpartanSailor (Jan 25, 2019)

openseas said:


> Definitely! I plan to go - already booked a room near the convention center  Who else coming?


I didn’t see the location. Is it at the convention Center? If so, I’m going to get a room soon as well! It’s only 53 miles away, but I don’t want to commute during that!


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## openseas (Jan 25, 2019)

SpartanSailor said:


> I didn’t see the location. Is it at the convention Center? If so, I’m going to get a room soon as well! It’s only 53 miles away, but I don’t want to commute during that!



No announcement yet but most likely the convention center. Sheraton is located there, Hilton is just across the street.


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## SpartanSailor (Jan 25, 2019)

openseas said:


> No announcement yet but most likely the convention center. Sheraton is located there, Hilton is just across the street.


Good thinking...


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## SpartanSailor (Jan 27, 2019)

Just had a nice 2:49 for my 3BLD attempt. Took is super casual, but the memo turned out to be pretty easy. I also skipped my corner review before starting. That’s probably what got me sub-3. The splits were 1:48/1:01 (memo/execution). I need to get my 3BLD muscles back into shape. This was encouraging, though...

RE: US Nationals. I haven’t seen any additional info since the dates/location posted. If you guys see anything... please point it out. I’d like to register sooner than later. I’m not sure I’ll make any new events for qualification, but If so, I’ll just update my events if necessary.


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## One Wheel (Jan 27, 2019)

I got another 3BLD success last night on what I was sure was a blown solve. I executed my first 4 corners before I realized I was using my edge memo. Executed second pair backwards, then the first letter of the first pair twice, then first pair backwards to get back to the starting position. I guess it’s not a good thing that two and a half years after starting blind that’s my best success.

I also blew a sighted 4BLD solve just before that. Probably one of the easiest 4BLD scrambles I’m likely to get: no parity anywhere, only one cycle break on centers, and I messed up a U-layer center target alg even though I was reading the alg off a cheat sheet.


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## openseas (Jan 27, 2019)

SpartanSailor said:


> Just had a nice 2:49 for my 3BLD attempt. Took is super casual, but the memo turned out to be pretty easy. I also skipped my corner review before starting. That’s probably what got me sub-3. The splits were 1:48/1:01 (memo/execution). I need to get my 3BLD muscles back into shape. This was encouraging, though...
> 
> RE: US Nationals. I haven’t seen any additional info since the dates/location posted. If you guys see anything... please point it out. I’d like to register sooner than later. I’m not sure I’ll make any new events for qualification, but If so, I’ll just update my events if necessary.



@SpartanSailor 

Registration starts at Feb 15th, and it’s Convention center. There are heated discussion due to the qualification time (especially for feet).

=======

Some more important information for upcoming Nationals 2019!

The venue will be the Baltimore Convention Center in Baltimore, Maryland!

Registration opens on February 15th!

The deadline to modify your registration will be June 30th and the deadline to qualify for events will be June 25th!

The CubingUSA website and the WCA website will be up very soon, that’ll have the rest of the pertinent details, however if you have any additional questions by then please send us a message or email! 

Qualifying times for each event this year at US Nationals are as follows:

3x3 | 0:40
2x2 | 0:11
4x4 | 1:00
5x5 | 1:40
6x6 | 3:05
7x7 | 4:15
3x3 Blindfolded | 3:00
3x3 One Handed | 0:30
3x3 With Feet | 0:45
FMC | 38 average
Clock | 0:13
Megaminx | 1:30
Pyraminx | 0:11
Skewb | 0:11
Square-1 | 0:30
4x4 Blindfolded | 10 minutes
5x5 Blindfolded | 20 minutes
3x3 Multiblind | 7 points


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## Mike Hughey (Jan 27, 2019)

Wow, those qualifying times are getting tough! Amazingly, I still qualify for 9 events, including skewb and square-1, both of which are ridiculous. I really shouldn't qualify for those. Skewb is too easy to get into compared to some of the others, and for square-1 I should probably be disqualified because my qualifying average is so very old (and was a set of amazingly lucky scrambles).


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## One Wheel (Jan 27, 2019)

I’m sure they realize that at present 15 people from the US would qualify to compete in Feet. That’s nonsense. I support having qualifying times for big tournaments, and putting fairly strict cutoffs on Feet to encourage people to take the event more seriously, but 45 seconds? 1:30 there would still be less than 100 people who would qualify.


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## mark49152 (Jan 27, 2019)

One Wheel said:


> Probably one of the easiest 4BLD scrambles I’m likely to get: no parity anywhere, only one cycle break on centers


Tip: You can almost always avoid any cycle breaks on centres, by solving the non-U targets on each face first.


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## One Wheel (Jan 27, 2019)

mark49152 said:


> Tip: You can almost always avoid any cycle breaks on centres, by solving the non-U targets on each face first.


Hmm. Nice one. My center trace was N I F C O H D Q U R L W P T X T ( I wrote it down, too) P in my scheme is Lbd, T is Bdr, X is Dbr. Could that T X T cycle be avoided?


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## openseas (Jan 27, 2019)

One Wheel said:


> Hmm. Nice one. My center trace was N I F C O H D Q U R L W P T X T ( I wrote it down, too) P in my scheme is Lbd, T is Bdr, X is Dbr. Could that T X T cycle be avoided?



Since we don’t know your letter scheme, Hard to tell without scramble. But as Mike suggested, avoid any U layer color if possible during trace - you can minimize cycle break. And also very usueful to know to a center swap alg (not through your buffer). Your TXT case can be solved with one swapping alg. If you don’t know, you can always rotate (not recommending, though) your cube or setup one target to buffer, then, solve as U2 alg then add U2. You can move your Dbr using r2 to Ufr, then solve Lbd with U2.


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## mark49152 (Jan 27, 2019)

One Wheel said:


> Hmm. Nice one. My center trace was N I F C O H D Q U R L W P T X T ( I wrote it down, too) P in my scheme is Lbd, T is Bdr, X is Dbr. Could that T X T cycle be avoided?


Doesn't look like you use true Speffz, but I'll assume you use the same groups of letters as Speffz, on each face.

In this case, only avoiding U stickers on the first traversal of each face doesn't work because your L face has two solved and two U stickers, so you have no option to defer them, and the other one is in the last position you shoot to on its face (R face) anyway.

In this scenario, I treat L stickers like U stickers, and avoid them on my initial traversal of each face. So after shooting to N, instead of I, shoot to L.

If after that I still have a cycle break, it will usually only be a couple of swapped pieces, so I'll insert them into the memo rather than start a new cycle. Insert as a pair right before a sticker of the same face as the first letter. In your memo, W is solved very close to the end, so I'd go back and put the X T before W.

N I F C O H D Q U R L (X T) W P

It's extremely rare that I break into a new centre cycle. I've done it maybe half a dozen times in a couple of thousand big BLD solves. Of course, if you have to spend time thinking about how to avoid a break, it's probably faster to just accept the extra target .


----------



## Sergey (Jan 28, 2019)

Still not true sub20 solver 



Spoiler: Did first sub18 avg5 and sub20 avg12



Average of 5: 17.80
1. 17.77 L2 B' U2 L2 F' U2 R2 B' D2 L2 U' R B' R' U2 L2 R' U F' U2
2. (16.31) R' L2 D R F' U2 F R2 L' F R2 F2 L F2 R B2 R' B2 R' U2 L
3. (21.61) B' R2 B2 D2 R2 B2 D2 B' D2 L2 B' U' B2 U L2 D F' R B F R'
4. 17.20 U2 B2 U2 L2 B2 U2 R D2 L B2 D' B' R' D R2 U' B D2 R2
5. 18.43 R2 D2 F' U2 B L2 D2 U2 F D2 F' L B' D U' L2 U2 F2 U' R'

Average of 12: 19.93
1. 22.03 U2 R' U2 L' F2 D2 R' U2 L' B2 R' F' D F2 L' B2 D' U' R2 U
2. 17.39 L2 D B2 U L2 B2 D2 R2 B2 F2 U2 R' B R2 D L R B' U2 B D'
3. 20.43 F2 U D2 B2 D F2 B2 L F' D2 L F2 R' B2 R F2 L D2 B2
4. 22.52 F2 U' R2 D2 L2 F2 U' B2 L2 B2 U2 R' U L B R B D' F2 L2 R'
5. 22.10 B2 D2 F2 D R2 U' L2 U' R2 D U B' U' B2 U' F R F L B2 R'
6. 19.85 B' L2 R2 F L2 F' R2 U2 B2 D2 B' D L R' U2 B2 L' D R2 F2 L2
7. (23.83) R2 B2 F2 R2 D' L2 U' L2 D' R2 U B' L2 D2 R B' U L2 B D2 F2
8. 17.77 L2 B' U2 L2 F' U2 R2 B' D2 L2 U' R B' R' U2 L2 R' U F' U2
9. (16.31) R' L2 D R F' U2 F R2 L' F R2 F2 L F2 R B2 R' B2 R' U2 L
10. 21.61 B' R2 B2 D2 R2 B2 D2 B' D2 L2 B' U' B2 U L2 D F' R B F R'
11. 17.20 U2 B2 U2 L2 B2 U2 R D2 L B2 D' B' R' D R2 U' B D2 R2
12. 18.43 R2 D2 F' U2 B L2 D2 U2 F D2 F' L B' D U' L2 U2 F2 U' R'


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## SpartanSailor (Jan 28, 2019)

openseas said:


> @SpartanSailor
> 
> Registration starts at Feb 15th, and it’s Convention center. There are heated discussion due to the qualification time (especially for feet).
> 
> ...


That updated 3BLD limit puts me on the wrong side of the qualifying time. I guess I just got my much needed motivation to double my efforts on 3BLD. I have two comps in the next 6 weeks with 3BLD. No more safe solves trying to get a mean. I’ll be on a DNF train until I get a sub-3:00 or June 25 (qualifying cutoff), whichever comes first.


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## SpartanSailor (Jan 29, 2019)

Mike Hughey said:


> Wow, those qualifying times are getting tough! Amazingly, I still qualify for 9 events, including skewb and square-1, both of which are ridiculous. I really shouldn't qualify for those. Skewb is too easy to get into compared to some of the others, and for square-1 I should probably be disqualified because my qualifying average is so very old (and was a set of amazingly lucky scrambles).


I qualified with skewb too... I was into it about a year ago... thru May or so, then lost interest. I couldn’t reproduce my qualifying 10.22 average at this point and I have no real interest to practice skewb too much. 

Currently, I’d qualify in 333,222 and skewb. I wanted to qualify with 444, but it dropped from 1:10 last year to 1:00 and I’m not sure that is going to happen anytime soon. 

But I really do want to qualify with 3BLD. It will be far more fun to participate in more than 333 and 222 when I go this year....


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## openseas (Jan 29, 2019)

SpartanSailor said:


> I qualified with skewb too... I was into it about a year ago... thru May or so, then lost interest. I couldn’t reproduce my qualifying 10.22 average at this point and I have no real interest to practice skewb too much.
> 
> Currently, I’d qualify in 333,222 and skewb. I wanted to qualify with 444, but it dropped from 1:10 last year to 1:00 and I’m not sure that is going to happen anytime soon.
> 
> But I really do want to qualify with 3BLD. It will be far more fun to participate in more than 333 and 222 when I go this year....



I believe you can achieve sub 3 3BLD soon. We're still in Jan, 5 month to achieve the cut-off, there are many comps with 3BLD.

For me, need to work on both 5BLD and MBLD. MBLD is not hard but there are not many competitions to have both. I may only have 1 or 2 chances before July. This year, I'll probably volunteer as a staff, it will be fun and exhausting


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## SpartanSailor (Jan 29, 2019)

openseas said:


> I believe you can achieve sub 3 3BLD soon. We're still in Jan, 5 month to achieve the cut-off, there are many comps with 3BLD.
> 
> For me, need to work on both 5BLD and MBLD. MBLD is not hard but there are not many competitions to have both. I may only have 1 or 2 chances before July. This year, I'll probably volunteer as a staff, it will be fun and exhausting



I’ve done sub-3s even as recently as yesterday. I’m going to push my memo time now. Yesterday I set an alarm at 1:30 for memo. My execution is usually around 1:00. That timing gives me some buffer for competition nerves. Although, if I get a good scramble with a memo that sticks quickly, I should have no problem. Sometimes, the memo is just awkward and I spend several reviews making sure I have it. That’s just time wasted....

I have the NE Championships in 2.5 weeks. I should have a good attempt there. Then, if I can make it happen, I’m trying to pull off going to the Orlando comp March 16-17... the later has a generous 20min cumulative time. The generous time doesn’t help if I’m shooting for sub-3, but does alleviate some pressure. 

I’ve noticed too, that it’s difficult to find comps with Big BLD and MBLD. Those events do require considerable time and competition resources to pull off.


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## One Wheel (Feb 4, 2019)

Competition yesterday was good overall. In order:
6x6 fail: at 4:38 halfway through a G-perm, lockup and pop, finished in 5:38.90 with a 5:00 cutoff :-(
7x7: 6:55.55, 6:30.73, 6:48.60 for a 6:44.96 mean. Very happy with that.
3x3: Lost a cross piece my first solve, then did the wrong PLL on the last one so the 32 I led out with counted. 27.36 average is typical for me, so I really can't complain. Would have been about a 25.8 average and gotten to the second round otherwise.
Feet: First round got a 1:38 average, which was good enough to get to the second round where I got a 1:37.80 average. Blew one solve each round.
4x4: Typical/good. Just under 1:17 single, 1:25 average. 
Megaminx: 3:30 cutoff, 3:22 first solve guaranteed an opportunity for an average. Got a 2:43 single and just under 3:10 average. I could do better if I re-learned half a dozen CO cases.
3BLD: 7:00+ DNF, 8:00+ DNF, had 4:02 left to try, started executing edges before I ran out of time.
4BLD and 5BLD: I still need to get the U-layer target algs down, an attempt would have been my first ever, and I want to at least get close at home. Maybe next year.

I also got a Clock (Thanks Josh!), which I've learned how to solve without a tutorial. I need all of the blind events, and 2x2, Clock, Skewb, Pyraminx, Square-1, and OH to get all events. I'm signed up for Clock and 3BLD at a comp in 2 weeks. I need a fair bit of work to make any cutoff in Square-1, but the other speedsolve events are trivial, it's just a matter of getting to comps.


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## h2f (Feb 4, 2019)

Nice, @One Wheel!


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## SpartanSailor (Feb 4, 2019)

@One Wheel well done. I’ve looked at all the events too, but I’m not interested in several—such as feet, sq-1 and clock. I don’t even have a clock. But for me, the real challenge will be 4BLD and 5BLD. ESPECIALLY 5BLD. There’s just so much to learn with those and I’m not sure when I’ll be able to do that. 

Congrats on that megaminx average and 7x7 mean.


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## chtiger (Feb 4, 2019)

Another comp from this weekend. http://cubecomps.com/live.php?cid=3961&compid=48
Was happiest about sub-10:00 4BLD. Wasn't sure I could do that in comp. 
Got a OPWR (old people world record) with a lucky skewb single (4.34). Had a +2 in the average.
A non-lucky sub-16 3x3 single, but sub-20 average still eludes me. Second round, did the wrong PLL on one solve, and put multiple F2L pairs in the wrong slot on two solves.
Had a decent 3BLD success. The two DNF's were in the 2:10's, one was 3 corners, one was 3 edges.
One bad round of clock, one good round of clock, 2nd best avg and single.
Still don't care about OH, but got PBs there.


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## mark49152 (Feb 4, 2019)

Nice job on that 4BLD, @chtiger!


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## SpartanSailor (Feb 5, 2019)

chtiger said:


> Another comp from this weekend. http://cubecomps.com/live.php?cid=3961&compid=48
> Was happiest about sub-10:00 4BLD. Wasn't sure I could do that in comp.
> Got a OPWR (old people world record) with a lucky skewb single (4.34). Had a +2 in the average.
> A non-lucky sub-16 3x3 single, but sub-20 average still eludes me. Second round, did the wrong PLL on one solve, and put multiple F2L pairs in the wrong slot on two solves.
> ...


If I managed a 4BLD success in ANY time, I’d be super excited. Well done. Looks like a decent overall weekend at the competition.


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## openseas (Feb 5, 2019)

chtiger said:


> Another comp from this weekend. http://cubecomps.com/live.php?cid=3961&compid=48
> Was happiest about sub-10:00 4BLD. Wasn't sure I could do that in comp.
> Got a OPWR (old people world record) with a lucky skewb single (4.34). Had a +2 in the average.
> A non-lucky sub-16 3x3 single, but sub-20 average still eludes me. Second round, did the wrong PLL on one solve, and put multiple F2L pairs in the wrong slot on two solves.
> ...



Great job! and nice 4BLD result!


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## One Wheel (Feb 8, 2019)

My at-home 6x6 is making up for the official disappointment: Just finished a 4:10.02 Ao5 with a 4:06.34 Mo3.

1. (3:56.38) @2019-02-07 11:28:53 
2. 4:06.57 @2019-02-07 11:36:34 
3. 4:16.06 @2019-02-07 22:00:20 
4. 4:07.43 @2019-02-07 22:05:58 
5. (4:40.73) @2019-02-07 22:20:18

I just saw the Great Lakes Championship in May. It's sorely tempting. I am likely to be busy planting corn, or getting ready to, about then, but if I just took Friday I could 4BLD, 5BLD, FMC, and Feet. Surely I could get big blind down my then. It's probably not worth the $50 plus the trip to Madison, but it is tempting.


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## SpartanSailor (Feb 10, 2019)

had another opportunity to choke, I mean compete this weekend. Seems like it’s just my lot in life to have bad 3x3 and 4x4 performance in competition. 

This weekend’s comp was a rare one I Which I competed in every event. I need to update my event preference on the WCA site, because I’m not terribly interested in skewb anymore and pyra just hasn’t become anything that I’ve decided to focus on (not yet anyway). 

I think I’m going to take time off from my 4x4 focus. I’ve been wanting an official sub-1:10 average for awhile and can do it at home, but managed to screw it all up and get 1:20 yesterday. That’s fine, I’m not upset—my take away is I’ve been focusing on too many events to make any real improvements in the ones that are important to me. 

With the updated qualifying times for US 2019 Nationals, I have qualifying times for a few events and in my “dream” world I’d also qualify in 3BLD, 444 and 555. Of those, there no way I can do 444 and 555. Honesty, 555 is completely out of the question and my recent 444 trend suggests the level of effort needed exceeds my capacity to prepare. 

Leaving me with, my favourite anyway, 3BLD. Rather than chase arbitrary improvements in multiple events, I’ve decided that my real goal is to compete 3BLD at Nationals. With that in mind, I think you can guess where I will divert all my practice focus. I have a comp this weekend, Feb 16, with 3BLD. Three attempts. If not sub-3, there are 2 more comps in March within a drivable distance, March 16 and again March 30. That’s 6 weeks leading up to March 30. I’m pretty confident that I can get an official sub-3 with 3BLD by then.

That’s the goal!


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## SpartanSailor (Feb 10, 2019)

One Wheel said:


> My at-home 6x6 is making up for the official disappointment: Just finished a 4:10.02 Ao5 with a 4:06.34 Mo3.
> 
> 1. (3:56.38) @2019-02-07 11:28:53
> 2. 4:06.57 @2019-02-07 11:36:34
> ...


Wow! That’s some good 6x6 work there! I struggle to get under 6:00 still. Someday I’ll take the time to get good with bigger cubes. I’d like to, it just takes SO long to practice those—especially when it takes so long to solve it just once. 

Nice work. Any chance you’re going to Nationals in Baltimore this year?


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## One Wheel (Feb 10, 2019)

SpartanSailor said:


> Any chance you’re going to Nationals in Baltimore this year?



No, I’m afraid. It’s hard enough to get away from the farm to go to a close by competition, Baltimore is much too far away to be worth it. That’s why I organize comps: so I can hold them close enough that I can get there to compete.


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## SpartanSailor (Feb 10, 2019)

One Wheel said:


> No, I’m afraid. It’s hard enough to get away from the farm to go to a close by competition, Baltimore is much too far away to be worth it. That’s why I organize comps: so I can hold them close enough that I can get there to compete.


Ahhhh makes sense.


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## pglewis (Feb 10, 2019)

Life sometimes: 



I've done some cross+1 drills over the past few days and I may already be seeing an impact on my fastest times. Those lousy solves were both botched crosses trying to look-ahead more. That 16 was a true full-step and just a product of finding all pairs quickly and friendly but 2 look LL.


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## One Wheel (Feb 11, 2019)

I figured out how to record me solving, so I recorded a fairly typical 6x6 solve. I’m surprised at my turning speed when I do turn, and at how long and frequent my pauses are.


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## pglewis (Feb 11, 2019)

Congrats to all the folks that went to the Fontwell Open, looks like it was a really fun time!


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## xyzzy (Feb 12, 2019)

One Wheel said:


> I figured out how to record me solving, so I recorded a fairly typical 6x6 solve. I’m surprised at my turning speed when I do turn, and at how long and frequent my pauses are.


If I were to reconstruct the full solve and analyse it in detail, I could probably find 20+ mistakes, but just watching this at normal speed, your solve seemed to be fine overall.



Spoiler: unsolicited advice



(i) For the last two centres, don't solve the inner bars first. Do a 2×4 on the left, then the remaining inner bar, then the remaining outer bar. This avoids the situation where you need to use multiple commutators to solve the stray centre pieces at the end.

(ii) During edge pairing, it looks like you're holding the cube with the sliced centres on the S slice (U, R, D, L) rather than the E slice (F, R, B, L). I don't know if this is just an artifact of the camera angle you used, though. In any case, S-slice is super bad because you have to rotate almost every time you insert an edge; with M-slice or E-slice edge pairing, you only need to rotate to deal with "misoriented" edges.

(iii) In L4E you're constantly rotating between having the edges on M and having the edges on S. As above, by sticking to E-only or M-only, you can reduce the number of rotations used a lot.

(iv) The FU moves on the last F2L pair are… interesting. I think most people would consider doing a y' rotation to convert it to RU 2-gen, but this isn't a big deal.

(v) Yikes, that U perm. Just because you can do M slices on magnetic big cubes doesn't mean you should. (I'm not sure if the R2 you did at the start was because you were going to execute the RU alg, but weren't confident in it.)


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## SpartanSailor (Feb 12, 2019)

Did some 3BLD practice last night. Had a string of DNFs... until I walk off and sat on the couch where I got a couple successes—but not timed. 

The bad: all DNFs. Not really terrible, but I’d like a success

The good: everything was 2:30 except the one when I completely forgot my memo and stopped the timer at 1:50. The other “good” was most of those DNFs were a single flipped edge that I missed in memo. So, memo was good, tracing was the issue. 

Next steps: focus on tracing and continue pushing memo.


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## SpartanSailor (Feb 12, 2019)

One Wheel said:


> I figured out how to record me solving, so I recorded a fairly typical 6x6 solve. I’m surprised at my turning speed when I do turn, and at how long and frequent my pauses are.


Good job. Someday I’ll be able to solve 6x6 that fast, but for now, I’ll live vicariously through your speed improvements.


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## Sergey (Feb 12, 2019)

May anybody explain me "cumulative limit" at comps? The question is about what will be stored in WCA profile in case of not passing those limit. F.e. cumulative limit is 20 mins and attempts are 5:20-5:00-10:05, or 9:10-5:50-5:05.


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## SpartanSailor (Feb 12, 2019)

Sergey said:


> May anybody explain me "cumulative limit" at comps? The question is about what will be stored in WCA profile in case of not passing those limit. F.e. cumulative limit is 20 mins and attempts are 5:20-5:00-10:05, or 9:10-5:50-5:05.


The cumulative limit is the total time allowed for all attempts.

To follow your example, if the cumulative limit is 20 mins and your first two attempts are 5:20 and 5:00, then you only have 9:40 to complete your third attempt. In the case that it took 10:05, as your example, then you would be awarded a DNF for the third attempt.

Likewise for your second example, you would have missed by 5 seconds on the third attempt and would be awarded a DNF.

In neither example would you receive a mean of three due to the final being officially a DNF. 

I don’t think the database distinguishes between running out of time and an unsuccessful attempt.

My local comps favour a 10 min cumulative 3BLD limit. Which is fine for me to get 2 valid attempts but adds a lot of pressure if I want to get a mean of 3. So, even if I get 3:30 and 3:30, I would then be allowed 3:00 for my final attempt. Anything more would DNF.


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## Sergey (Feb 12, 2019)

SpartanSailor said:


> The cumulative limit is the total time allowed for all attempts.
> 
> To follow your example, if the cumulative limit is 20 mins and your first two attempts are 5:20 and 5:00, then you only have 9:40 to complete your third attempt. In the case that it took 10:05, as your example, then you would be awarded a DNF for the third attempt.
> 
> ...


Thanks! The meaning of the cumulative limit is quite understandable. Does this means that there will be single DNF for the event in the profile?


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## mark49152 (Feb 12, 2019)

SpartanSailor said:


> I don’t think the database distinguishes between running out of time and an unsuccessful attempt.


Technically the judge is supposed to stop the attempt when you hit the time limit, so it would be literally "did not finish" and there's no distinction to make.


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## Sergey (Feb 12, 2019)

Sergey said:


> Thanks! The meaning of the cumulative limit is quite understandable. Does this means that there will be single DNF for the event in the profile?


I think yes. Similarly to the single attempt time limit. The difference is that you have an opportunity to maneuver to pass limit within several attempts instead of one.


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## One Wheel (Feb 12, 2019)

xyzzy said:


> If I were to reconstruct the full solve and analyse it in detail, I could probably find 20+ mistakes, but just watching this at normal speed, your solve seemed to be fine overall.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks! This is some fantastic feedback! 

The S vs. E slice pairing is I think more an issue of rotating the cube to look for pieces, but I will try to pay more attention to that. 

F-moves in F2L: an artifact of consciously trying to reduce cube rotations for 3x3. You’re right that a rotation is the better option here. 

MU vs. RU U-perm: I use the MU Ua-perm for all cubes, but for 5-7 I usually use the RU Ub-perm. In this case I started the Ub, then realized it was the wrong one. I know the mirror for the RU Ua-perm, but not the inverse. I’ll time myself doing a few of each and see how much difference it makes.


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## SpartanSailor (Feb 12, 2019)

mark49152 said:


> Technically the judge is supposed to stop the attempt when you hit the time limit, so it would be literally "did not finish" and there's no distinction to make.


Correct. Our delegates write the “time remaining” beside the attempt and instruct the judges to stop the competitor when/if they reach that time.


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## SpartanSailor (Feb 12, 2019)

Sergey said:


> I think yes. Similarly to the single attempt time limit. The difference is that you have an opportunity to maneuver to pass limit within several attempts instead of one.


If I understand your question, you are asking what would show on your WCA profile page?
If you had two successes and then timed out for the third, you would see two valid times and one DNF in the third attempt column. 

You would NOT receive a DNF for all three attempts. 

Is that what you’re asking?


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## Sergey (Feb 12, 2019)

SpartanSailor said:


> If I understand your question, you are asking what would show on your WCA profile page?
> Is that what you’re asking?


Exactly!

So, based on my examples the profile record would be like this (cumulative limit - 20 mins, attempts - 5:20 5:00 10:05):


*Single*

*Average*

*Solves*

5:00

DNF

5:20 5:00 DNF

and single would go to PR?

...An upcoming local comps has cumulative limits for the 6x6 and 7x7 instead of "traditional" limit+cutoff, moreover there will be no 2x2 to 5x5 events...


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## SpartanSailor (Feb 12, 2019)

Sergey said:


> Exactly!
> 
> So, based on my examples the profile record would be like this (cumulative limit - 20 mins, attempts - 5:20 5:00 10:05):
> 
> ...


If that single is a PR, then yes. 

Interesting approach to 6x6 and 7x7.
Which competition is that?


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## mark49152 (Feb 12, 2019)

SpartanSailor said:


> Correct. Our delegates write the “time remaining” beside the attempt and instruct the judges to stop the competitor when/if they reach that time.


Same in the UK. Actually someone got their arithmetic wrong at UK Championships and stopped my final 5BLD attempt a minute early! I could have asked for an extra, but let it go because my centres were messed up and it would have been a DNF anyway.


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## Sergey (Feb 12, 2019)

SpartanSailor said:


> If that single is a PR, then yes.


Of cause .



SpartanSailor said:


> Interesting approach to 6x6 and 7x7.
> Which competition is that?


YJ Special series.


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## pglewis (Feb 14, 2019)

Until today I've only had one sub 20 Ao5, in the low 19s. I just crushed that by a full second during a hot streak that finally included a PB single... 15.40 full step. On the 24 second one I solved six F2L pairs lol. 



Spoiler: Solves



Generated By csTimer on 2019-02-14
solves/total: 5/5

single
best: 15.40
worst: 24.35

mean of 3
current: 17.27 (σ = 1.72)
best: 17.27 (σ = 1.72)

avg of 5
current: 18.31 (σ = 0.61)
best: 18.31 (σ = 0.61)

Average: 18.31 (σ = 0.61)
Mean: 18.94

Time List:
1. 18.52 L' F U R2 F2 L U' B D B2 D' L2 B2 D2 B2 U R2 F2 D' F2 
2. 24.35 U B' D' L F2 D' F U2 L2 D' R2 D R2 F2 D' B2 D2 B2 R2 L' B' 
3. 17.62 R' L2 B' D2 U2 B' R2 F2 D2 F D2 R' F' D2 U' F D' B D' 
4. 15.40 R' D R2 D' L2 D R2 U L2 B2 R2 D' L2 F' U2 R2 D' F2 L' F L2 
5. 18.79 B' L F2 L2 F' U2 B F2 U2 L2 D2 L2 F' L' D L' B' D2 B2 D


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## SpartanSailor (Feb 14, 2019)

pglewis said:


> Until today I've only had one sub 20 Ao5, in the low 19s. I just crushed that by a full second during a hot streak that finally included a PB single... 15.40 full step. On the 24 second one I solved six F2L pairs lol.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Fantastic! I’ve only had 3 or 4 sub-20 averages too... and not that fast. Very nicely done.


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## pglewis (Feb 15, 2019)

SpartanSailor said:


> Fantastic! I’ve only had 3 or 4 sub-20 averages too... and not that fast. Very nicely done.



After plateauing for what feels like forever I think several things are really starting to come together at around the same time: cross to F2L transition, preference for solving F2L slots in the back early, and full OLL and recognition which has been a long-game but continues to pay off. Still that was a series of solves were I was pretty much out of my head, I can probably catch a better single still but I expect that Ao5 will stand for a while.


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## openseas (Feb 15, 2019)

pglewis said:


> After plateauing for what feels like forever I think several things are really starting to come together at around the same time: cross to F2L transition, preference for solving F2L slots in the back early, and full OLL and recognition which has been a long-game but continues to pay off. Still that was a series of solves were I was pretty much out of my head, I can probably catch a better single still but I expect that Ao5 will stand for a while.



Wow, awesome! All those are in my list but first thing first......


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## pglewis (Feb 16, 2019)

openseas said:


> Wow, awesome! All those are in my list but first thing first......



Of the three, back slots has been by far the easiest to train for. I already pay attention to EO so it's just a matter of slow deliberate solves to form the new habit. But I agree, first thing first: your 3bld is getting impressive!


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## newtonbase (Feb 16, 2019)

Got a 1:30 3BLD PB in the 1st round at Manchester today and then 1:23 in the final. Missed a 1st round mean by a flipped edge on the 3rd solve. Was meant to go safe but it felt good so I went for it.


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## mark49152 (Feb 16, 2019)

Poor 3BLD results at Manchester for me, for the second comp in a row. I have been learning full edge comms, and used them for all solves in the comp, which was my aim for the day. I'm still a little hesitant with them.

Got a couple of surprise single PBs in 4x4 and 5x5 despite lack of practice. The 4x4 one is overall PB - 51.29 (sorry @Selkie ).


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## pglewis (Feb 16, 2019)

mark49152 said:


> The 4x4 one is overall PB - 51.29 (sorry @Selkie ).



That was unexpected, indeed. Nice single!


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## AbsoRuud (Feb 16, 2019)

I don't know how you guys get sub 1 minute with 4x4x4. I got a Wuque to replace my QiYuan, but I'm still hovering around the 4 minute mark. I'm using Yau and 3-2-3, but pfffff.


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## openseas (Feb 16, 2019)

newtonbase said:


> Got a 1:30 3BLD PB in the 1st round at Manchester today and then 1:23 in the final. Missed a 1st round mean by a flipped edge on the 3rd solve. Was meant to go safe but it felt good so I went for it.



Congratulations, @newtonbase !

I've got the first ever 5BLD success! After missing one T center pair in the first attempt, went for safe (lol, even used individual comm instead of flip or twist) then realized my corner memo was wrong. Spent next 3 minutes to guess what it could have been...then, 33 min success!!!

My comp is still in progress but 5BLD success make me so excited!


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## mark49152 (Feb 16, 2019)

Congrats @openseas!


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## openseas (Feb 16, 2019)

mark49152 said:


> Congrats @openseas!



Thanks!

Just finished the comp.
It was a small PBQ only 10 people total, relaxed and friendly.

Other than triple DNF for 4BLD, I was able to get a success from round.

3BLD was a meh but avoided another triple,m for both rounds, finished 3rd.

MBLD was also a meh, 5/10, 51 min. I reviewed a lot and executed really slow but all odd number cubes got DNF, 1 twist (incorrect trace of the last corner), 1flip (rotated opposite), one corner cycle due to reverse comm, 1twist (ccw but did cow), D off (second to the last corner comm unsetup). Ended up with 0 points but a lucky 3rd place.

4BLD, suffered from insufficient rooms- I share same rooms for big blinds but after 5 BLD, ran out of rooms, had a hard time to come up with a decent image loci.

5BLD was good, finally got a success. 28 min first was a heart breaker, one X center pair off. 3rd one was 19min two wing cycle off. Almost got a 5BLD mean. 2nd place.


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## newtonbase (Feb 17, 2019)

Well done @openseas It's been a long time coming.


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## SpartanSailor (Feb 17, 2019)

openseas said:


> Thanks!
> 
> Just finished the comp.
> It was a small PBQ only 10 people total, relaxed and friendly.
> ...


Nicely done! I’m impressed with your blind solving skills...


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## Selkie (Feb 18, 2019)

mark49152 said:


> .... The 4x4 one is overall PB - 51.29 (sorry @Selkie ).....



No apology needed my friend, awesome result


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## pglewis (Feb 19, 2019)

Latest 3x3 drill: AUF recognition for PLL. I already know some of these but there are far more that I don't and fractions of a second matter now. I also need to nail down two sided PLL recognition once and for all to save time and neck-craning beforehand but I'm finding the final AUF recognition to be easier to develop, so one thing at a time.


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## h2f (Feb 19, 2019)

Luckily I've turned camera on.


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## Tom Joad (Feb 20, 2019)

pglewis said:


> Latest 3x3 drill: AUF recognition for PLL. I already know some of these but there are far more that I don't and fractions of a second matter now. I also need to nail down two sided PLL recognition once and for all to save time and neck-craning beforehand but I'm finding the final AUF recognition to be easier to develop, so one thing at a time.



If you have any thoughts or questions on either of these two concepts, throw them up here and I’ll chip in with my thoughts.

I’m a middle aged cuber who averages 16 secs on a good day. I’ve put a lot of time into the two things you mention but I wouldn’t say I’ve mastered either of them.

Anyway, good luck!


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## JohnnyReggae (Feb 20, 2019)

pglewis said:


> Latest 3x3 drill: AUF recognition for PLL. I already know some of these but there are far more that I don't and fractions of a second matter now. I also need to nail down two sided PLL recognition once and for all to save time and neck-craning beforehand but I'm finding the final AUF recognition to be easier to develop, so one thing at a time.


This is something I've been actively trying to pay attention to. Predicting the AUF after PLL... I don't have full 2-sided recognition down yet either. Of the 2 I think the AUF is easier which is why I've spent more time doing it, as you have


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## SpartanSailor (Feb 20, 2019)

Finally started added some basic edge flip comms into my 3 BLD tool kit. A very simple one that flips UF and BF pieces in place, but you can set up any two edge pieces into those positions then flip them then UN-setup those pieces to their solved position. I know it’s basic stuff and I’ve been aware of this trick for awhile, but NOW I’m finally ready to play with it and experiment. I’ve already figured out how to apply this to only a single edge... which is SUPER convenient when the flipped edge is DB. Much easier than doing the special case alg to flip that piece.

I don’t expect this to save me a TON of time, but it all adds up...

Edit to add:
Did some edge only solves today and incorporated this edge flip alg a few times and each was successful.


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## pglewis (Feb 21, 2019)

Tom Joad said:


> If you have any thoughts or questions on either of these two concepts, throw them up here and I’ll chip in with my thoughts.
> 
> I’m a middle aged cuber who averages 16 secs on a good day. I’ve put a lot of time into the two things you mention but I wouldn’t say I’ve mastered either of them.
> 
> Anyway, good luck!





JohnnyReggae said:


> This is something I've been actively trying to pay attention to. Predicting the AUF after PLL... I don't have full 2-sided recognition down yet either. Of the 2 I think the AUF is easier which is why I've spent more time doing it, as you have



I feel really silly that I haven't done this before now because it's far easier than I thought it would be. I have the majority down after just two days and should be fully comfortable with it in week or two at this rate.


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## openseas (Feb 21, 2019)

pglewis said:


> I feel really silly that I haven't done this before now because it's far easier than I thought it would be. I have the majority down after just two days and should be fully comfortable with it in week or two at this rate.



How much do you think you're saving in terms of average? like 0.5s? How do you practice?


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## pglewis (Feb 21, 2019)

openseas said:


> How much do you think you're saving in terms of average? like 0.5s? How do you practice?



Hard to say, some-- like EPLLs-- I was already paying attention to because they're easy, other times I spot things and AUF pretty quickly. But I know it can save me up to maybe .4 - .5 on some solves, how much that'll pay off on averages I dunno. 

I'm currently mostly doing untimed solves again. On final AUF I'm just figuring out the ones I don't know as they show up, tonight was a lot of doing PLL + final AUF without looking once set up.


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## SpartanSailor (Feb 21, 2019)

I put a LOT of time into 3BLD practice yesterday, which was fun. Several edge only solves and corner only solves to really practice memo speed—yet without a timer. And then successfully incorporated the edge flip alg AND the UB/UR swap for odd targets. Again, nothing spectacular, but I could really feel my execution being more fluid yesterday with fewer pauses and more confidence. So, I’ll call that a good practice day. 

I did a few 4x4 solves yesterday too. I haven’t done many timed solves since the 1:00 qualifying time was set for US Nationals—it’s too far out of my reach right now—instead I decided to focus on 3BLD since I’m much closer (and capable) to meet that qualifying time. However, yesterday I did take some time to do 4x4 and ended up getting THREE sub-1 times and two were in the same ao5! Needless to say I was pretty stoked about that one. I think the 6x6 and 7x7 recent practice has helped somehow.... Anyway, I’m not going to stop my 3BLD focus, but it was a great to get a good 4x4 run yesterday.


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## Sergey (Feb 21, 2019)

Finally got my first subtle sub1 on 4x4...almost did not believe it would ever happen. Without parities. MoYu AoSu GTS2M.


Spoiler: First 4x4 single sub1



1. 59.20 R' u2 U2 B u2 r' L2 B r f2 r' R2 B' u' F' D B' U L2 B L2 B' L2 r2 u f2 F D L2 R F B' r B2 U2 r B' R D' L2


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## SpartanSailor (Feb 21, 2019)

Congrats! 

So, you know I had to do that scramble immediately, right? Lol


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## Sergey (Feb 21, 2019)

SpartanSailor said:


> Congrats!
> 
> So, you know I had to do that scramble immediately, right? Lol


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## Sergey (Feb 22, 2019)

And today the next single PB on 3x3 - 12.99. I think it is a nice gift for the celebration of my first year of speedcubing. As for now:

(s/5/12/50/100/1000)
3x3: 12.99/17.45/19.03/20.15/20.40/21.91
4x4: 59.20/1:14.14/1:18.04/1:22.56/1:25.42/1:29.76
5x5: 2:02.98/2:48.20/2:54.34/3:01.28/3:04.25/NY

(s/mo3, sporadic timed solves)
6x6: 5:09.13/5:26.79
7x7: 8:09.05/NY

...and one official comps in the baggage.


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## pglewis (Feb 22, 2019)

I've broken every 3x3 PB I track this month and I'd be a lot happier if not for that annoying gap between my Ao12 and Ao50. I even ran my session up to 80 solves today to try to sneak it under :24 but I just can't seem to harness the lookahead for that long without hitting a rough patch.


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## Sergey (Feb 24, 2019)

When the inefficiency may become luck. 

Next 3x3 single PB 12.86:

L2 D L2 F2 D B2 U' R2 U' R2 U2 B R' F' U' R B2 U2 F U2 F'

// as executed
z2 y // inspection
D L R' F D // cross
U L' U' L // 1st pair
y U R' U2 R U' R' U R // 2nd pair
U U2 R U R' L' U L // 3rd pair
U y' U R' U R U2 R' U R // 4th pair, OLL and PLL skip


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## SpartanSailor (Feb 24, 2019)

Sergey said:


> When the inefficiency may become luck.
> 
> Next 3x3 single PB 12.86:
> 
> ...


Full last layer skip? What are the odds of that!? I’d have been stunned and probably take another second just to make sure I didn’t miss something. Lol

Well done!


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## pglewis (Feb 24, 2019)

SpartanSailor said:


> Full last layer skip? What are the odds of that!?



OLL Skip: 1/216
PLL Skip: 1/72
LL Skip: 216x72: 1/15,552

I've had exactly one LL skip so far and that was way back when I was playing with ZZ (or really EO CFOP) and thus was improving my odds a tiny bit.

[Edit: and by "a tiny bit" I mean an 8x better chance. EO up front leads to a 1/27 chance of OLL skip and 1/1,944 chance of a full LL skip]


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## pglewis (Feb 24, 2019)

Sergey said:


> When the inefficiency may become luck.
> 
> Next 3x3 single PB 12.86:
> 
> ...



No AUF either, I think the odds on that with LL skip are 1/62,208


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## pglewis (Feb 24, 2019)

Just a fascinating solve, BTW. That 3rd pair... I wouldn't have even mentally registered that option, I'd likely have gone R U R' U2 L' U' L. Also, I'm sure I'd have noted the two blue edges going into the 3rd pair and thus wouldn't have done a rotation for the last pair. Any variance and the pot o' luck vanishes.


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## One Wheel (Feb 25, 2019)

Big jumps are exciting: Just smashed my 7x7 single. Was 6:03.31, got a 5:45.67. Didn't feel nearly as good as the solve a couple prior that the timer failed to start :-(.


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## SpartanSailor (Feb 26, 2019)

Question about comms:
I know what pieces this is referring to, but I don’t understand the notation. Can someone translate this into actual moves for me? 

UF>UR>DB: [R': [M2, U' R U]]


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## SpartanSailor (Feb 26, 2019)

One Wheel said:


> Big jumps are exciting: Just smashed my 7x7 single. Was 6:03.31, got a 5:45.67. Didn't feel nearly as good as the solve a couple prior that the timer failed to start :-(.


That’s a great 7x7 single. Well done


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## pglewis (Feb 26, 2019)

SpartanSailor said:


> Question about comms:
> I know what pieces this is referring to, but I don’t understand the notation. Can someone translate this into actual moves for me?
> 
> UF>UR>DB: [R': [M2, U' R U]]



https://www.speedsolving.com/wiki/index.php/Commutators_and_Conjugates

I tend to think of the portion before the colon (conjugate) as the setup/restore move so that part breaks down to: R' [M2, U' R U] R
The comma is the notation for the commutator itself ([A, B] = A B A' B'), so the whole thing then becomes: R' (M2) (U' R U) (M2) (U' R' U) R


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## SpartanSailor (Feb 26, 2019)

pglewis said:


> https://www.speedsolving.com/wiki/index.php/Commutators_and_Conjugates
> 
> I tend to think of the portion before the colon (conjugate) as the setup/restore move so that part breaks down to: R' [M2, U' R U] R
> The comma is the notation for the commutator itself ([A, B] = A B A' B'), so the whole thing then becomes: R' (M2) (U' R U) (M2) (U' R' U) R


Thanks!


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## pglewis (Feb 26, 2019)

Also, if you didn't already know, https://alg.cubing.net/ is awesome and fully supports the notation. 

I found comms really fun to play with, being intuitive (of course I've just dabbled and experimented thus far)


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## h2f (Feb 26, 2019)

SpartanSailor said:


> Question about comms:
> I know what pieces this is referring to, but I don’t understand the notation. Can someone translate this into actual moves for me?
> 
> UF>UR>DB: [R': [M2, U' R U]]



R' is a setup to other case. Next you do the comm. M2 is a first move next U' R U as written. Than undo M2 (the same move this time) and undo U' R U doing an inverse U R' U. Undo setup.


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## openseas (Feb 26, 2019)

SpartanSailor said:


> Question about comms:
> I know what pieces this is referring to, but I don’t understand the notation. Can someone translate this into actual moves for me?
> 
> UF>UR>DB: [R': [M2, U' R U]]



[S: [A, B]]

S is setup, A is insert, B is interchange or vice versa.
Actual moves are, S A B A’ B’ S’

So, R’ : setup, M2: interchange, U’ R U: insert
R’ setup moves UR to FR position. So, now, your comm is UF - FR - DB: [M2, U’ R U]

M2 is swapping UF with DB, U’ R U is inserting FR into UF position.

If you do reverse order, [U’ R U, M2], then it becomes UF - DB - FR.

Easier way to understand is:

your M2 method, imagine first target as UB, then 2nd target as FR.
You do M2 first for UB target, then you do U R U’ M2 U R’ U’ for the 2nd target (FR).
If you do this together, it becomes M2 U R U’ M2 U R’ U’ = [M2, U R U’], basically a commutator of DF-UB-FR
Please note that I used DF buffer example to compare with your M2 method.


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## SpartanSailor (Feb 26, 2019)

thanks! I’m going to play with it a little for awhile. I think I’ll play with corners first and see how that goes.


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## One Wheel (Feb 28, 2019)

I was just trying to time some 5x5 splits and ended up with this:
Total - F2C - 4C - F8E - L4E - Cross+F2L - LL
1. 2:27.82 - 14.71 - 22.83 - 40.33 - 40.94 - 23.19 - 5.79 (Last split is just PLL)
2. 2:35.63 - 14.69 - 24.09 - 1:00.64 - 15.48 - 28.80 - 11.91
3. 2:14.24 - 20.52 - 25.89 - 39.76 - 19.62 - 17.16 - 11.27
4. 2:05.94 - 14.90 - 26.91 - 42.54 - 11.61 - 21.19 - 8.76
5. 2:00.66 - 18.94 - 16.84 - 45.94 - 14.33 - 16.99 - 7.59

The last two are overall PB singles, last 3 beat Mo3 by 9 seconds, Ao5 by 2.64 seconds. Not sure how that happens: stopping the timer more times should take longer.


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## SpartanSailor (Feb 28, 2019)

One Wheel said:


> I was just trying to time some 5x5 splits and ended up with this:
> Total - F2C - 4C - F8E - L4E - Cross+F2L - LL
> 1. 2:27.82 - 14.71 - 22.83 - 40.33 - 40.94 - 23.19 - 5.79 (Last split is just PLL)
> 2. 2:35.63 - 14.69 - 24.09 - 1:00.64 - 15.48 - 28.80 - 11.91
> ...


That’s fantastic!


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## SpartanSailor (Mar 1, 2019)

On my quest to an official sub-3 time for 3BLD... last nite was not bad. I did several untimed successful solves to work on edge flips and corner twists. Then, as soon as I started timing... the DNF train pulled into the station. But, not until after a 2:56 and a 3:08.... then, it was 5 DNFs in a row for simple errors like not seeing the flipped edge or twisting a corner the wrong way. Nevertheless, I feel like my memo is coming along from all the recent attention/practice. Of course, ALL my other events are slowing down. But, that’s going to happen so I can get the improvements I want in 3BLD. I’m pretty sure my untimed ones are in that same time range, so I’m encouraged.


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## pglewis (Mar 1, 2019)

SpartanSailor said:


> On my quest to an official sub-3 time for 3BLD... last nite was not bad. I did several untimed successful solves to work on edge flips and corner twists. Then, as soon as I started timing... the DNF train pulled into the station. But, not until after a 2:56 and a 3:08.... then, it was 5 DNFs in a row for simple errors like not seeing the flipped edge or twisting a corner the wrong way. Nevertheless, I feel like my memo is coming along from all the recent attention/practice. Of course, ALL my other events are slowing down. But, that’s going to happen so I can get the improvements I want in 3BLD. I’m pretty sure my untimed ones are in that same time range, so I’m encouraged.



Hammer on that memo and you'll be where you want in no time! Might even be worth a day or two of memo-only runs. 

I'm doing the same thing with singular focus but on 3x3 still. I'll plateau again eventually and return to brushing up my blind solving but I want to keep pushing this while excellent progress is going on.


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## SpartanSailor (Mar 1, 2019)

pglewis said:


> Hammer on that memo and you'll be where you want in no time! Might even be worth a day or two of memo-only runs.
> 
> I'm doing the same thing with singular focus but on 3x3 still. I'll plateau again eventually and return to brushing up my blind solving but I want to keep pushing this while excellent progress is going on.


Good to focus when you’re hot! I’ll get back to focusing on 3x3 and 4x4 when I get this sub-3 3BLD. For now, though, I’m enjoying the focused attention on one event.


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## h2f (Mar 1, 2019)

I did one of my fastest 3bld solves with TPS 4. Time was 38.56 [15.64] Scramble: D2 F2 L2 D U R2 D' L2 U F D' R' B2 R2 B' D L2 F' D' Fw' Uw2. 9 algs and 92 moves. Buffer is DF again


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## One Wheel (Mar 7, 2019)

Sorry to keep posting mundane speedsolving stuff, but I’ve been chasing the elusive sub-1:00 4x4 single today. It still eludes me. I keep getting really smooth to f2l and think “this is surely it” and then get double parity and a G-perm and finish in 1:10-1:15, or get a really bad solve but decent LL and end up at 1:12. I just can’t seem to string all the good parts together in one solve. Someday.


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## Mike Hughey (Mar 7, 2019)

One Wheel said:


> Sorry to keep posting mundane speedsolving stuff, but I’ve been chasing the elusive sub-1:00 4x4 single today. It still eludes me. I keep getting really smooth to f2l and think “this is surely it” and then get double parity and a G-perm and finish in 1:10-1:15, or get a really bad solve but decent LL and end up at 1:12. I just can’t seem to string all the good parts together in one solve. Someday.


I haven't tried this for several months, but I always experienced the same thing. So I totally empathize!


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## SpartanSailor (Mar 8, 2019)

One Wheel said:


> Sorry to keep posting mundane speedsolving stuff, but I’ve been chasing the elusive sub-1:00 4x4 single today. It still eludes me. I keep getting really smooth to f2l and think “this is surely it” and then get double parity and a G-perm and finish in 1:10-1:15, or get a really bad solve but decent LL and end up at 1:12. I just can’t seem to string all the good parts together in one solve. Someday.


Seriously, I can relate. More than you know... It’s a true frustration for me. Meanwhile, I go to comps and I see everyone around me dropping tikes and getting into the 50s all the time, but 2 months ago they could barely get sub-2. How did they improve SO much while I have seriously not improved in almost a year. I get a few lucky streaks occasionally, but those only get me around 1:10 averages with an super rare 1:05 or something. 


I’ve shifted my focus to 3BLD for a bit to work toward that sub-3 US Nationals qualifier.... and I have to admit last week I was feeling good but I’m working an a DNF streak over 20 attempts now. The past couple days have just been awful—lots of missed flipped edges or just plain memo failures. I feel like all my event are stagnating and I don’t know how to change up my practice to get off this plateau.


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## pglewis (Mar 8, 2019)

SpartanSailor said:


> Seriously, I can relate. More than you know... It’s a true frustration for me. Meanwhile, I go to comps and I see everyone around me dropping tikes and getting into the 50s all the time, but 2 months ago they could barely get sub-2. How did they improve SO much while I have seriously not improved in almost a year. I get a few lucky streaks occasionally, but those only get me around 1:10 averages with an super rare 1:05 or something.
> 
> 
> I’ve shifted my focus to 3BLD for a bit to work toward that sub-3 US Nationals qualifier.... and I have to admit last week I was feeling good but I’m working an a DNF streak over 20 attempts now. The past couple days have just been awful—lots of missed flipped edges or just plain memo failures. I feel like all my event are stagnating and I don’t know how to change up my practice to get off this plateau.



Even at my peak with 3bld I needed to be in a good concentration mode while sighted solves are far less taxing. Sometimes with 3x3 it seems like a few days off can get me out of a funk when I return, especially if I've been working on a lot of new things. It's like my brain is still processing and absorbing the information without solving. Blind DNF streaks all I can really do is commiserate but at least the law of averages says you're due for a hot streak.


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## SpartanSailor (Mar 8, 2019)

pglewis said:


> Even at my peak with 3bld I needed to be in a good concentration mode while sighted solves are far less taxing. Sometimes with 3x3 it seems like a few days off can get me out of a funk when I return, especially if I've been working on a lot of new things. It's like my brain is still processing and absorbing the information without solving. Blind DNF streaks all I can really do is commiserate but at least the law of averages says you're due for a hot streak.


I definitely feel like I’m improving overall, but the past couple days have been a bad luck streak. It’ll come together and when it does, I’ll forget all about this little bump in the road. Or at least won’t be bothered by it;-)


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## openseas (Mar 10, 2019)

Just finished one of local comp.

3x3x3 - 1st and 2nd round 24~25s average. Nothing special.

MBLD - attempted 10, got 6 success. 2 DNFs from 1 twist, 1 flip, 1 DNF: did DR' for unsetup but supposed to be R'D. the last DNF was missing D during corner comm shifting all corners by D move.

3BLD
1st round: after 2 DNF, safety solve go 1:53 - supposed to be a 3 round 3BLD comp, so didn't want to exit after the first round. But turned out to be a 2 round comp (3 no shows, didn't have enough people to make 3 round comp).
2nd round: Since it will be the final round, decided to go for it, 1:02 DNF, 1:01 DNF, 1:05 success. 1st one was off by one edge cycle (looks like I used an inverse comm), and 2nd was 1 corner twist (memo'd as CCW but it was CW). Still missed official sub-1 but I'm ok with non-triple DNF results.

Jeff was trying double floating - he is in Gianfranco mode (trying something new trick rather going for the speed). Thanks to his approach, my final result was only 14s slower than his winning solve, slightly less embarrassing 2nd place


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## pglewis (Mar 15, 2019)

One Wheel said:


> [ ... mundane speedsolving stuff ... ]



I know what all those words mean but when you put them together in that order it's just gibberish  

I don't usually join "race to..." things because I'm mostly self-competitive but I'm _still_ long overdue for that sub 15 3x3 single and you're also sitting on "any day" for a sub 1 4x4.


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## efattah (Mar 15, 2019)

I'm curious as to how fast people got with the original Rubik's Revenge (4x4) puzzle in the 80's. The puzzle was incredibly difficult to turn. My best was 3:54 in 1987. I solved centers->corners->edges, and I could not resolve parity so I had to restart/rescramble if I got parity. At the time my 3x3 PB was 19.8 so the 4x4 took me drastically longer to solve and I could not solve megaminx at all, til a year or two later.


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## pglewis (Mar 16, 2019)

Close but no cigar on my hunt for a sub 15 single, got a 15.48 with a PLL skip and a 16.2 full step yesterday. It was also time for a check-up on my Ao50 and I managed to get it well below 24 _at last_.

My stickerless TengYun M arrived yesterday after being on backorder for a couple weeks. I like very fast, light feeling 3x3s with fairly weak magnets so when some of the reviews claimed "uncontrollably fast, needs med/heavy lube to slow it down" I figured I should give it a try. Heads-up to @JohnnyReggae since we seem to have similar tastes.

It was not entirely coated in lube as some reviews complained; out of the box it had a slightly scratchy/sandy feeling with a little bit of spring noise. Turning is quite smooth after a little break-in and a drop of light silicone lube on each washer under the spring was all that was needed to quiet the core. The shades have good contrast and follow the current trend of darker red/blue and overall less of a "washed-out" look than the GTS2 shades. Magnets feel on the weaker side which I like, they seem to do their job without being all that noticeable otherwise. The only prep I've done is some Lubicle Speedy on the washers to get rid of the spring noise and DNM. I left as much of the factory lube in it as I could when I disassembled and will resist the urge to add any silicone lube to the pieces for now as I always end up regretting the decision. 

The GTS2-M has been my main since it came out because it remains fast without gumming up and having to clean it out every 4 days like some others described as "uncontrollably fast" that I've tried. It's still early but the TengYun definitely rivals the GTS2-M for my tastes and I believe there is still a sweeter spot to be found with the tensions. We'll see how it holds up over time and when solving in anger; I've said "main challenger" multiple times in the past only to return to the trusty GTS2-M every time.

[EDIT: and just got a full step 15.98 on the TengYun, six move P OLL and R-Perm. I should probably be aiming for a sub 14 single]


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## SpartanSailor (Mar 16, 2019)

Today was quite the day. My son and i got up at 0400h and drove 4.5 hours to a competition at North Carolina State. My only main goal was to get a sub-3 with 3BLD and qualify for US Nationals. Here’s a brief recap of the day:

3x3: Round 1– PB Average, but a sliver of a second, but still... and made the second round.
Round 2 — counting 19 and another PB average by a second over the round 1 average. All in all, my times were consistent and no disaster solves. I felt good and relaxed today. That definitely helps. Ended the day with three sub-20 singles (one in first round 2 in second round) and new PB average of 21.44.

5x5: I’ve never been able to get an average, so with generous time limits, I was able to do that today. I took a DNF even though I could have justified a timer malfunction on my 4th solve. But, I’m pleased to get a 2:41 average and now I have a mark for future reference. 

3BLD: DNF (2:43)—during execution i did two corners in the wrong order.
2:31.42—nailed it. When I stopped the timer, I didn’t ever pull my blindfold off immediately. I sat there just wanting to see a solved cube... and I DID! I noticed I was around 1:40 when I started execution so, approximately, 1:40/0:50 splits. Not terrible. Lots of room for improvement on memo and the execution on this was steady and only one slight pause. 
DNF—I was still reeling from the previous and just got flustered during execution and took the DNF. Nevertheless I’m thrilled.

4x4: I haven’t been practicing much of 4x4, but have had some decent casual sessions... and today that paid off because I was relaxed and got a new PB average of 1:09.xx. Another great result beating my previous official average of 1:17.

OH: This was nothing to brag about, but they had another generous time limit and I managed to get a PB single and a PB average (but this is my first average with OH... so... easy win) 

Basically, I PB averaged everything today and got my 3BLD qualiying time. I’m really pleased with the day.


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## mark49152 (Mar 17, 2019)

Nice job @SpartanSailor!


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## JohnnyReggae (Mar 17, 2019)

pglewis said:


> My stickerless TengYun M arrived yesterday after being on backorder for a couple weeks. I like very fast, light feeling 3x3s with fairly weak magnets so when some of the reviews claimed "uncontrollably fast, needs med/heavy lube to slow it down" I figured I should give it a try. Heads-up to @JohnnyReggae since we seem to have similar tastes.


I've been considering getting it but have been holding off as I'm not sure I would move over to it on a more permanent basis. I'm very keen to try it though.


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## openseas (Mar 17, 2019)

@SpartanSailor / Great job! Congrats!

@pglewis / sounds interesting. I may want to try. I’m planning to get GTS3 WR - Jeff has couple, feels good. Without ridges, I can do Boron treatment and make it smoother even for stickerless.

I also finished a comp in OK. Dan (Smith) helped me the whole day for data entry and annoucements. Fun to hang out with fellow oldies.

I’ve got 1:01 with corner recall pause and hesitation for a corner twist. Even at home, sub 1 is like 1 out of 20 solves. So, I need more practice and rounds but feel getting close. My edge comms are still wrong way to be a decent/ready mode.

Next comm, Max (Hilliard) and Jeff will be competing together. It will be fun to watch them do BLD relay.


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## pglewis (Mar 17, 2019)

15.58 full step single... c'mon just gimme that lucky one already lol


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## pglewis (Mar 17, 2019)

Heh... moments later a 14.10 with a PLL skip, mission finally accomplished.

F' D' R' D L2 U2 R B L2 B' U2 L2 B' L2 D2 F' D2 L2 B2 L F2



Spoiler



I finally figured out the exact goofiness I did with the 2nd pair that granted me the lucky skip

z2 y // Inspection
F L R' D2 // Cross
U R U' R' // First pair
y R' U' R y L' U' L // Second Pair
B' R B R' // Third Pair
y L' U' L U2 L' U L // Last Pair
U (r' U2 R U R' U r) // Square OLL
U2 // AUF


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## SpartanSailor (Mar 17, 2019)

pglewis said:


> Heh... moments later a 14.10 with a PLL skip, mission finally accomplished.


Wow! That’s awesome! Nicely done.


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## pglewis (Mar 18, 2019)

Part of me is stoked of course and another part of me is a little annoyed that the slight "deer in headlights delay" on the final AUF kept it over :14. No biggie, I should probably be setting my sights on something in the 12.x range for a smooth + lucky single at this point. This one was just a stubborn matter of principle. 

Final AUF prediction didn't help me on the PB since I didn't predict the skip but I'm still really glad I decided to incorporate it. It barely took any effort beyond paying attention, I already had fair intuition given thousands of solves the past couple years. Two days and I'd seen enough PLLs repeatedly to have it mostly down. J-Perms still throw me a little, E-Perms because by the time I realize it's an E-Perm I just go into it without paying attention, and N-Perms because... N-Perms. But it has definitely been a factor in a handful of sub 20 solves that wouldn't have been and only a few +2s, nothing chronic and the doctor's prescription for it is "don't do that". The primary factor is remembering to look. 

Best low hanging fruit by far at this point is going back to work on predicting first pair and spamming Cross+1 drills. Other than mistakes, slow cross is definitely becoming the biggest culprit on my slower solves, though a handful of OLLs are still a drag. Getting 2-sided PLL recog solid from every angle is another one that would probably pay off well (he says, for the 800th time).


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## Tom Joad (Mar 19, 2019)

pglewis said:


> Part of me is stoked of course and another part of me is a little annoyed that the slight "deer in headlights delay" on the final AUF kept it over :14. No biggie, I should probably be setting my sights on something in the 12.x range for a smooth + lucky single at this point. This one was just a stubborn matter of principle.
> 
> Final AUF prediction didn't help me on the PB since I didn't predict the skip but I'm still really glad I decided to incorporate it. It barely took any effort beyond paying attention, I already had fair intuition given thousands of solves the past couple years. Two days and I'd seen enough PLLs repeatedly to have it mostly down. J-Perms still throw me a little, E-Perms because by the time I realize it's an E-Perm I just go into it without paying attention, and N-Perms because... N-Perms. But it has definitely been a factor in a handful of sub 20 solves that wouldn't have been and only a few +2s, nothing chronic and the doctor's prescription for it is "don't do that". The primary factor is remembering to look.
> 
> Best low hanging fruit by far at this point is going back to work on predicting first pair and spamming Cross+1 drills. Other than mistakes, slow cross is definitely becoming the biggest culprit on my slower solves, though a handful of OLLs are still a drag. Getting 2-sided PLL recog solid from every angle is another one that would probably pay off well (he says, for the 800th time).



Hi again.

Can you give me any tips on working on first pair/ spamming cross +1 drills?
I also feel like this is where I can most improve upon my times but have never had the discipline to make the mental effort required.
If a cross is seven or eight moves, it would take me minutes to predict first pair. Do you use unlimited inspection?

Do you just predict location first pair ends up or also orientation so that you know the exact case?
I really need to start investing some time in this, I think I could knock two seconds off my times if I get it right.

I average 16-17 (when I’m looking ahead, which is far from always), PB 12.5


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## h2f (Mar 19, 2019)

Tom Joad said:


> Do you use unlimited inspection?
> 
> Do you just predict location first pair ends up or also orientation so that you know the exact case?


I guess it helps:


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## pglewis (Mar 19, 2019)

Tom Joad said:


> Hi again.
> 
> Can you give me any tips on working on first pair/ spamming cross +1 drills?
> I also feel like this is where I can most improve upon my times but have never had the discipline to make the mental effort required.
> ...



Yesterday I did some timed solves until I felt like I was properly warmed up then did a session of 50 cross+1 solves with the normal inspection limit to get a current baseline. On good ones I'm 4-6 seconds, mean is ~7, and I bleed out as slow as 9-11 seconds with mistakes or ones I take forever to find the first pair. My best Ao12 was about a second faster than my previous baseline last summer and about a half second faster on Ao25. This will give me an indicator on progress as I start drilling and also shows that my best potential has improved by about a second and longer averages about a half second since last Aug just from organic improvement on cross+1 alone. 

For first pair prediction drills I won't be timing and I'll use unlimited inspection, figure out the moves for the cross, then tracking a corner that will end up in the U layer, then track the pairing edge. I spent a couple days on this a few weeks back and tracking a corner was tricky and slow at first but I was slowly getting the hang of it after a little work. I'll also use this handy scrambler and start with 3 or 4 move crosses and ramp up the difficulty as needed: https://christianvaughngames.com/C2F2L 

Along with the video @h2f shared, JPerm also has a "how to be sub 15" video that focuses on Cross+1. I think in both those vids he uses the method above for tracking but just using normal scrambles instead of easier cross scrambles. 

The "next level" guys might have some things to chime-in with, among those active here @Selkie, @CLL Smooth, @Logiqx, and @JohnnyReggae come to mind, all of which probably have a lot more practice with it than I.


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## Tom Joad (Mar 19, 2019)

pglewis said:


> Yesterday I did some timed solves until I felt like I was properly warmed up then did a session of 50 cross+1 solves with the normal inspection limit to get a current baseline. On good ones I'm 4-6 seconds, mean is ~7, and I bleed out as slow as 9-11 seconds with mistakes or ones I take forever to find the first pair. My best Ao12 was about a second faster than my previous baseline last summer and about a half second faster on Ao25. This will give me an indicator on progress as I start drilling and also shows that my best potential has improved by about a second and longer averages about a half second since last Aug just from organic improvement on cross+1 alone.
> 
> For first pair prediction drills I won't be timing and I'll use unlimited inspection, figure out the moves for the cross, then tracking a corner that will end up in the U layer, then track the pairing edge. I spent a couple days on this a few weeks back and tracking a corner was tricky and slow at first but I was slowly getting the hang of it after a little work. I'll also use this handy scrambler and start with 3 or 4 move crosses and ramp up the difficulty as needed: https://christianvaughngames.com/C2F2L
> 
> ...



Thanks, I think I will do unlimited inspection and try to solve the cross and first pair blind


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## pglewis (Mar 19, 2019)

Tom Joad said:


> Thanks, I think I will do unlimited inspection and try to solve the cross and first pair blind



I gotta figure if you and I could do that consistently within inspection time it would drop 2+ seconds off our averages.


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## Tom Joad (Mar 19, 2019)

pglewis said:


> I gotta figure if you and I could do that consistently it would drop 2+ seconds off our averages.



Definitely.

I think mastering this is the only way I can move to regular sub 15 solves, with a chance of a lucky sub 10 one day.

However, it makes my brain hurt... haha


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## pglewis (Mar 19, 2019)

My random thoughts after some drills today:

Staring with 3-move crosses is encouraging, it may take me a few minutes here at the outset but I can reliably predict the first pair and it really drives home how beneficial that is. 

Finding a good corner and tracking it is the hard part for me; adding one more edge beyond the cross, once I know which, is a lot easier. 

I've learned I can rule out some corners quickly, like seeing that one is going to be pinned next to solved bottom edge and quickly take it out of consideration. From the other end, sometimes it's obvious that a corner won't move much or at all with a little looking. 

Sometimes it's useful for me to think in reverse, starting from the last move or two of the cross

In some situations I've found it may change the order of how I solve the cross or even introduce an extra U face turn or something to preserve a piece or set up a better case.


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## SpartanSailor (Mar 19, 2019)

Got the new GTS 3 M WR yesterday and have done several solves. Just completed an average of 50. For the ao50 I got 21.32s which is only 0.02 seconds off my best Ao50. BUT, I closed out with a PB on the last Ao5 of 18.41 beating my previous PB of 18.42. HA! Still feels good to get a PB average. I still need to work on my overall consistency. .. 

Generated By csTimer on 2019-3-19
avg of 5: 18.41

Time List:
1. (17.31) B2 U2 R2 B D2 U2 B2 L2 U2 B' R2 D' R2 B U2 L' U2 R' D L' U 
2. (20.11) D2 B' R U' L F2 D2 B R' U2 F2 L2 U2 L2 U D2 L2 F2 D2 
3. 17.44 L2 F2 U2 B2 L' F2 L2 D2 B2 R B' L F2 L2 U' F' D L B' 
4. 18.56 D2 B' U2 R2 F D2 B2 R2 U2 R2 F U' R D' F' L D B2 L2 F2 
5. 19.23 R2 D B2 U L2 D' L2 D2 R2 U' F2 B U L R D B' U' B R2 U


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## JohnnyReggae (Mar 20, 2019)

pglewis said:


> Yesterday I did some timed solves until I felt like I was properly warmed up then did a session of 50 cross+1 solves with the normal inspection limit to get a current baseline. On good ones I'm 4-6 seconds, mean is ~7, and I bleed out as slow as 9-11 seconds with mistakes or ones I take forever to find the first pair. My best Ao12 was about a second faster than my previous baseline last summer and about a half second faster on Ao25. This will give me an indicator on progress as I start drilling and also shows that my best potential has improved by about a second and longer averages about a half second since last Aug just from organic improvement on cross+1 alone.
> 
> For first pair prediction drills I won't be timing and I'll use unlimited inspection, figure out the moves for the cross, then tracking a corner that will end up in the U layer, then track the pairing edge. I spent a couple days on this a few weeks back and tracking a corner was tricky and slow at first but I was slowly getting the hang of it after a little work. I'll also use this handy scrambler and start with 3 or 4 move crosses and ramp up the difficulty as needed: https://christianvaughngames.com/C2F2L
> 
> ...


You're getting quite good with cross+1 if you can do that in under 10 seconds. To be honest I have attempted cross+1 a few times, but have very quickly gotten frustrated that I stop and go back to just cross. Seeing that I could save myself a second or 2 at least by putting more effort into cross+1 I really should. I have a large 3 day competition in 2 months which I really want to do well at .... time to start practicing cross+1.

Thanks for the tips, they will help me


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## SpartanSailor (Mar 20, 2019)

pglewis said:


> Yesterday I did some timed solves until I felt like I was properly warmed up then did a session of 50 cross+1 solves with the normal inspection limit to get a current baseline. On good ones I'm 4-6 seconds, mean is ~7, and I bleed out as slow as 9-11 seconds with mistakes or ones I take forever to find the first pair. My best Ao12 was about a second faster than my previous baseline last summer and about a half second faster on Ao25. This will give me an indicator on progress as I start drilling and also shows that my best potential has improved by about a second and longer averages about a half second since last Aug just from organic improvement on cross+1 alone.
> 
> For first pair prediction drills I won't be timing and I'll use unlimited inspection, figure out the moves for the cross, then tracking a corner that will end up in the U layer, then track the pairing edge. I spent a couple days on this a few weeks back and tracking a corner was tricky and slow at first but I was slowly getting the hang of it after a little work. I'll also use this handy scrambler and start with 3 or 4 move crosses and ramp up the difficulty as needed: https://christianvaughngames.com/C2F2L
> 
> ...


I think it’s time for me to return to LL drills and I’ve never done cross+1 drills—I think I’ll give that a shot. I definitely think cross+1 will be helpful for me. Finding the first pair is not smooth for me. Then again, sometimes I see 2 or 3 pairs right away and get “stuck” deciding which to do first. 

Sounds like you’re making some good progress.


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## pglewis (Mar 20, 2019)

JohnnyReggae said:


> You're getting quite good with cross+1 if you can do that in under 10 seconds. To be honest I have attempted cross+1 a few times, but have very quickly gotten frustrated that I stop and go back to just cross. Seeing that I could save myself a second or 2 at least by putting more effort into cross+1 I really should. I have a large 3 day competition in 2 months which I really want to do well at .... time to start practicing cross+1.
> 
> Thanks for the tips, they will help me



You must turn super fast compared to me if you're not at least tracking a corner in inspection . I'm betting your LL is excellent. 

I'm far from being able to predict anything within inspection time yet so my baseline cross+1 times just show what I currently do in my normal solves. I timed a handful with unlimited inspection and prediction of the first pair yesterday on 3 and 4 move crosses and the times ranged from high 3s to low 5s when I got it right, which was most of the time... ridiculously faster than my high 6 / low 7 mean just winging it. 



SpartanSailor said:


> I think it’s time for me to return to LL drills and I’ve never done cross+1 drills—I think I’ll give that a shot. I definitely think cross+1 will be helpful for me. Finding the first pair is not smooth for me. Then again, sometimes I see 2 or 3 pairs right away and get “stuck” deciding which to do first.
> 
> Sounds like you’re making some good progress.



Getting an Ao50 under 24 was the main progress I wanted to see and my 23.39 session didn't even feel like a great one, with its fair share of 25+ and a few over 30. I've been feeling like 23s are on the slow side of "meh" when I'm properly warmed up and I finally got an Ao50 that agrees. I'm still a couple seconds off your consistency but you probably make fewer dumb mistakes to drag it down. It's also been really promising to see one 15-17 full step showing up per session lately, that's a new thing. I won't bother tracking longer averages for a while until the new stuff starts to solidify, though I will continue to time a lot of solves because a better single could still turn up at any time. 

I highly recommend doing an Ao50 of cross+1 to get a baseline for where you are. If nothing else, I think a little cross+1 spamming might be a great warm-up before a full solve session. Just like with my full solves I noticed I started to hit my stride with cross+1; warming up with that and switching over to full solves when you hit a groove might be a really good recipe to attack Ao5 and Ao12. Plus it feels awesome to stop the timer sub-10 a bunch of times .


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## pglewis (Mar 20, 2019)

One other random thought on the topic: I think the reason working on first pair prediction feels like pulling teeth for a lot of us is we haven't had to work like this for a while, pure spamming gets the job done. I find it similar to when I tried to take up thumb-style/fingerpicking on guitar. I'd been a flat picker for over 25 years and was comfortable to the point of unconscious with it and fingerpicking felt like I was a total beginner again. If I accept that I'm just going to suck really bad at it for a while and apply enough stubbornness I'm sure I can at least eventually get the tracking down a lot faster, figuring out cross alone was difficult once upon a time too.


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## Mike Hughey (Mar 20, 2019)

pglewis said:


> You must turn super fast compared to me if you're not at least tracking a corner in inspection . I'm betting your LL is excellent.


JohnnyReggae is way better than me at 3x3x3, but I'm still not surprised he's not tracking anything past cross in inspection; I suspect most people at his speed don't. I find that even working out complete cross is sometimes difficult for me for 7+ move crosses, and for anything over a 3 or 4 move cross, tracking even a corner is just mind-bogglingly difficult for me.

Which reminds me - somewhere around here I've seen and used a tool that gave crosses of various move lengths for practicing this sort of thing, but I can't find it now. Anyone know where it is?


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## Tom Joad (Mar 20, 2019)

Mike Hughey said:


> JohnnyReggae is way better than me at 3x3x3, but I'm still not surprised he's not tracking anything past cross in inspection; I suspect most people at his speed don't. I find that even working out complete cross is sometimes difficult for me for 7+ move crosses, and for anything over a 3 or 4 move cross, tracking even a corner is just mind-bogglingly difficult for me.
> 
> Which reminds me - somewhere around here I've seen and used a tool that gave crosses of various move lengths for practicing this sort of thing, but I can't find it now. Anyone know where it is?



Pglewis has linked it in post number 20636 up there


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## Mike Hughey (Mar 20, 2019)

Tom Joad said:


> Pglewis has linked it in post number 20636 up there


Ah, thank you!


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## h2f (Mar 20, 2019)

Mike Hughey said:


> Anyone know where it is?



Cstimer has it in tools screen.


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## pglewis (Mar 20, 2019)

Mike Hughey said:


> Which reminds me - somewhere around here I've seen and used a tool that gave crosses of various move lengths for practicing this sort of thing, but I can't find it now. Anyone know where it is?



I'll link it again here too: https://christianvaughngames.com/C2F2L

My early advice is to try a bunch of 3-movers. Plenty of them are easy but plenty still presented a challenge since I'm just getting started. I mostly did 3 move practice yesterday and threw in some 4-movers at the end, the difficulty level goes up quickly with one more move. I started with 3-movers today but only did about a half dozen before moving up to 4, tracking the corners was already feeling a lot easier. 

Predicting a pair within inspection on a difficult cross will probably be tough even with practice... but this drill is forcing me to do general cross drills as a side effect. I've already encountered crosses that I would have done less efficiently but knowing it's supposed to be 4-moves makes me dig up the better one. Even if I can't track anything on difficult crosses at the end of this journey I'll wager I might be able to turn bad solves from bad crosses into so-so solves. And on the easier ones it's the gift that keeps on giving, if I plan well enough to solve the first pair in the back then the 2nd pair has half as many blind spots to hide in. Sometimes even when I get the exact case wrong I still know the EO for the first pair up front and am set up for that without rotation, leading to some quick solutions despite mistakes.


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## pglewis (Mar 20, 2019)

h2f said:


> Cstimer has it in tools screen.



I hadn't discovered that option in csTimer before, I had to dig around to find it: pick "3x3x3" as the scramble type at the top then "easy cross" in the next drop down to the right, at the bottom of the list; you can set the length by clicking the gear icon to the right of that. This is extra handy because csTimer will also display cross solutions for cases where I just can't figure it out.


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## CLL Smooth (Mar 21, 2019)

Got my second sub-9 today. Both are LL skips. The first one happened on February 2nd. Reconstructions were easy on both. I’m 40 now. Watch out oldies rankings, if I can make it to a comp.


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## Sergey (Mar 21, 2019)

h2f said:


> Cstimer has it in tools screen.



It sometimes generates wrong scrambles regardless of number of moves settings.



pglewis said:


> I'll link it again here too: https://christianvaughngames.com/C2F2L



I think this one is the redesigned version of the old one (http://net13.net/Cube/Cross/ - link is not working now) but without drawing scramble. Under the hood it contains lots of preconfigured scrambles (about 1000 for each "level") and each time randomly selects it. But for such training tools it would be the best to have scramble, image and solution rolled into one, IMO.


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## JohnnyReggae (Mar 22, 2019)

pglewis said:


> You must turn super fast compared to me if you're not at least tracking a corner in inspection . I'm betting your LL is excellent.
> 
> I'm far from being able to predict anything within inspection time yet so my baseline cross+1 times just show what I currently do in my normal solves. I timed a handful with unlimited inspection and prediction of the first pair yesterday on 3 and 4 move crosses and the times ranged from high 3s to low 5s when I got it right, which was most of the time... ridiculously faster than my high 6 / low 7 mean just winging it.


My last layer isn't bad and knowing full OLL certainly helps. I usually plan my cross in around 5 seconds, even the longer 8 movers which come up now and again. So I certainly do have time to start planning more in inspection, it's just trying to track pieces during inspection does my head in. But as you have shown it just takes some concerted effort, much like attempting to be colour neutral.


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## pglewis (Mar 22, 2019)

Sergey said:


> It sometimes generates wrong scrambles regardless of number of moves settings.



I've had it generate shorter solutions than specified but haven't seen longer ones yet. Going to keep using the csTimer one for now because I can check the scramble (I make a lot of scramble mistakes) and cross solution all in one place as you mentioned. 



JohnnyReggae said:


> My last layer isn't bad and knowing full OLL certainly helps. I usually plan my cross in around 5 seconds, even the longer 8 movers which come up now and again. So I certainly do have time to start planning more in inspection, it's just trying to track pieces during inspection does my head in. But as you have shown it just takes some concerted effort, much like attempting to be colour neutral.



I've been "working on" full OLL for over a year but mostly have it down. Highway/55 still isn't memorized, about a half dozen aren't fully in muscle memory, and maybe about 10 are still slow on recog. I suspect this exercise is going to be another long game to reap the full benefits. It may also eventually push me to work more on dual neutral to increase my chances of shorter crosses but I'm still reluctant to try going full CN. Hats off to you on the color neutral work you put in!


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## SpartanSailor (Mar 22, 2019)

Question for the 4BLD solvers:

Do you find that practicing 4BLD (or learning in my case) improved your 3BLD?

I notice a small bump in my lookahead with 3x3 after I focus on 4x4 for awhile. I’m wondering if there’s a comparable effect with BLD.


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## Mike Hughey (Mar 22, 2019)

SpartanSailor said:


> Do you find that practicing 4BLD (or learning in my case) improved your 3BLD?


I've always expected and hoped this, but I'm afraid I've never seen it. I need to practice 3BLD (and practice it a lot) to even stay in shape with it. Right now, I'm terribly out of shape with 3BLD; probably the only thing that keeps me even tolerable at it is my multiBLD practice. But I find that multiBLD tends to make me more accurate at regular 3BLD, but a little slower.


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## SpartanSailor (Mar 22, 2019)

Mike Hughey said:


> I've always expected and hoped this, but I'm afraid I've never seen it. I need to practice 3BLD (and practice it a lot) to even stay in shape with it. Right now, I'm terribly out of shape with 3BLD; probably the only thing that keeps me even tolerable at it is my multiBLD practice. But I find that multiBLD tends to make me more accurate at regular 3BLD, but a little slower.


I was sort of thinking that may be the case. But, I don’t have much to base my guess off. I do think I’m going to slowly begin learning some 4BLD stuff. I’ve looked into it before...worked out all the setups for my letter scheme and understand the principles... but for me I think the long pole in the tent will be my memory skills to keep all that info organized in my head. 

For now, I’m just going to work on the centres and all those setups and special cases. That’s the bit that is the most different—whereas corners are essentially the same as 3BLD


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## Mike Hughey (Mar 22, 2019)

I must admit that, while it works that way for me, I'm not sure if others find it the same. I just know that big BLD practice doesn't seem to help my 3BLD speed at all, and 3BLD practice also doesn't seem to help my big BLD speed at all. The various bigger cubes help each other, but there doesn't seem to be much connection for me between big BLD improvement of any size and 3BLD improvement.


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## mark49152 (Mar 23, 2019)

SpartanSailor said:


> Do you find that practicing 4BLD (or learning in my case) improved your 3BLD?


Yes, indirectly, in the sense that after doing a lot of 4BLD practice, enough to improve significantly, 3BLD feels much easier. As with many things, that's a sign of improvement. My 3BLD accuracy improves, the event becomes less tiring and I can relax and push speed more when practising.

However, 4BLD practice doesn't directly improve my 3BLD speed. 3BLD requires different techniques to do it fast, and like Mike said, it takes dedicated practice.


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## pglewis (Mar 23, 2019)

SpartanSailor said:


> ... but for me I think the long pole in the tent will be my memory skills to keep all that info organized in my head.



Might as well dip your toe into mbld while you're at it, it'll give more practice on longer memos. Locations are a super easy way to help mentally organize/subdivide things and full image memo with associations between them helps me with retention. I have total faith you'll find what works for you, I haven't even attempted a 3bld solve this year so I have to live vicariously through others.


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## SpartanSailor (Mar 24, 2019)

Sat dow for some easy casual solves this morning and just landed my first sub-20 Ao12... 

Generated By csTimer on 2019-3-24
avg of 12: 19.80

Time List:
1. 21.94 L2 R2 D2 R2 U' R2 D' F2 D2 B2 R2 B L2 D L R F L U F2 R' 
2. 19.36 B2 D2 R2 B U2 B L2 U2 L2 F R2 D' U' B2 R' F' D B2 U' R2 
3. 21.79 F2 L' D2 F2 R U2 B2 L2 D2 L' D' L' R2 F2 L2 F D B R' 
4. 20.11 F D' L2 F2 R2 F2 U2 L2 U R2 F U2 R2 B' U2 R' B' U2 R2 
5. (17.39) D2 L D' B R U D' B R2 F2 U' B2 R2 D2 R2 U B2 D' R2 L 
6. 17.68 U F2 D2 B' R2 F R2 F' D2 U2 B2 R2 L D' L2 B' L' B R' U F' 
7. (24.67) R F2 L B2 R' F2 L U2 B2 R U2 B' F L2 B L U' B U L' 
8. 19.44 L2 F L2 B' R' D2 R U' R U2 L F2 R' F2 D2 R2 F2 R D2 F 
9. 18.86 F U' L2 U' L' D R F2 L' D2 R2 F' U2 B2 D2 F U2 D2 R2 B2 L' 
10. 18.94 R F R2 D2 U2 B' R2 F2 L2 U2 B2 U R D2 L D B' L' F' R F2 
11. 22.44 F2 D2 F2 L2 D' R2 D L2 B2 U' R2 B U' L2 B' D' L' D U B F2 
12. 17.47 D2 U2 F2 R' D2 R' U2 L2 U2 R' D2 U B2 R D L B R2 B2 R' D2


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## SpartanSailor (Mar 24, 2019)

pglewis said:


> Might as well dip your toe into mbld while you're at it, it'll give more practice on longer memos. Locations are a super easy way to help mentally organize/subdivide things and full image memo with associations between them helps me with retention. I have total faith you'll find what works for you, I haven't even attempted a 3bld solve this year so I have to live vicariously through others.


Last year I tried a little MBLD like 2 or 3 cubes... more like “few BLD” than “multi”. I can’t see going down that path much beyond 3 or 4 cubes. To do that, however, I’ll have to learn a variation on the Roman rooms method. My current 3BLD method is memo and execute a sting of letter pairs... no audio or images. I’m sure if I learn some additional techniques I can improve my 3BLD times too.


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## pglewis (Mar 24, 2019)

SpartanSailor said:


> Sat dow for some easy casual solves this morning and just landed my first sub-20 Ao12...



Even with me focusing on 3x3 and you focusing on blind I can't catch you . Nice batch of solves there! 



SpartanSailor said:


> To do that, however, I’ll have to learn a variation on the Roman rooms method. My current 3BLD method is memo and execute a sting of letter pairs... no audio or images.



There's really nothing to "learn" IMO. For mbld I just have two locations per room, one for edge memo the other for corners. My office is one room and edge memo goes on my chair and corner memo on my desk, that's all there is to it. You can add more locations within each room for flipped/twisted pieces or different piece types for 4/5bld, or just use more rooms. We have good image memory-- random strings of letters, not so much-- so the key is to leverage what your memory is good at. 3bld should be fast enough to just wing it, it's a different animal because the retention time is short.


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## Boogie dude (Mar 24, 2019)

Finally beat the 30 second barrier. Although it was a lot of luck and a pll skip. Still happy with this.


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## openseas (Mar 25, 2019)

SpartanSailor said:


> Question for the 4BLD solvers:
> 
> Do you find that practicing 4BLD (or learning in my case) improved your 3BLD?
> 
> I notice a small bump in my lookahead with 3x3 after I focus on 4x4 for awhile. I’m wondering if there’s a comparable effect with BLD.



It helps in terms of memo speed (as Mike mentioned). You'll feel much easier for 3BLD (of course, much less number of target) when you do enough 4BLD practice.
But as other pointed out, execution speed, not much. 

On the other hand, 5BLD practice definitely improves 4BLD


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## Oldmancfop (Mar 25, 2019)

I have been learning cfop for around 6 months and practicing a lot. I have been making steady progress but i was wondering if it is considered a good idea to take a break for a few days now and then, I'm wondering if I'm over practicing.


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## AbsoRuud (Mar 25, 2019)

Try it out and you'll see for yourself if it's a good idea. (I personally think it's a good idea. I switch between skewb, pyraminx, 2x2x2 3x3x3 and 4x4x4, leaving one or two 'rest' days in between.)


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## SpartanSailor (Mar 25, 2019)

Oldmancfop said:


> I have been learning cfop for around 6 months and practicing a lot. I have been making steady progress but i was wondering if it is considered a good idea to take a break for a few days now and then, I'm wondering if I'm over practicing.


I have found that following large amounts of practice that a couple days of rest actually improves my time. 

It may just be due to my frustrations by the time I take a break, but it certainly can’t hurt to try. 

I don’t think you have to be worried that everything will be lost in a couple days... take a break. See how it goes.


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## Mike Hughey (Mar 26, 2019)

Wow, I just cracked the 5-minute barrier on 4BLD! 4:57.56[2:49.21], on the SpeedSolving weekly competition this week. My previous best was 5:27.51, so this was a huge jump!

I'm coming for the 10-minute barrier on 5BLD; I'm getting close.


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## openseas (Mar 27, 2019)

Mike Hughey said:


> Wow, I just cracked the 5-minute barrier on 4BLD! 4:57.56[2:49.21], on the SpeedSolving weekly competition this week. My previous best was 5:27.51, so this was a huge jump!
> 
> I'm coming for the 10-minute barrier on 5BLD; I'm getting close.



Wow, great! What's your 3BLD time these days?


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## pglewis (Mar 27, 2019)

Oldmancfop said:


> I have been learning cfop for around 6 months and practicing a lot. I have been making steady progress but i was wondering if it is considered a good idea to take a break for a few days now and then, I'm wondering if I'm over practicing.



It might be the case sometimes, I brought this up recently myself. Between work and life I occasionally go a few weeks with minimal practice. It might take 3 or 4 days to clear the cobwebs when I return and I might have forgotten an OLL or three but I've seen a bump multiple times after a break. When I've been working on a lot of new things I do suspect my brain continues to process things subconsciously for a while without much practice. At the same time I have no way to know if I'd have made the same or better progress without the break, so ultimately it's pure speculation and a big ol' shrug from me. 

More importantly I think: if _you_ feel like taking break, take a break. If you're fully enjoying yourself and seeing steady progress I don't think it hurts to just keep at it.


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## Mike Hughey (Mar 27, 2019)

openseas said:


> Wow, great! What's your 3BLD time these days?


Heh, not good. I probably average a little over 1:30 right now, whereas a few years ago I averaged less than 1:10. I cannot maintain my speed at 3BLD without practicing fairly much; I would probably have to do about 500 solves over a period of several weeks in order to start even getting close to my old speed.

I guess that's one thing I like about big BLD over 3BLD - just a few attempts per week is enough to keep improving. Of course, when I say a few attempts a week, I mean 3 4BLD attempts, 3 5BLD attempts, a 6BLD attempt, and a 7BLD attempt each week.


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## openseas (Mar 27, 2019)

Mike Hughey said:


> Heh, not good. I probably average a little over 1:30 right now, whereas a few years ago I averaged less than 1:10. I cannot maintain my speed at 3BLD without practicing fairly much; I would probably have to do about 500 solves over a period of several weeks in order to start even getting close to my old speed.
> 
> I guess that's one thing I like about big BLD over 3BLD - just a few attempts per week is enough to keep improving. Of course, when I say a few attempts a week, I mean 3 4BLD attempts, 3 5BLD attempts, a 6BLD attempt, and a 7BLD attempt each week.



I feel you. Just couple of days without any practice drops the time at least 10s of 3BLD. I might need to start more focusing on big BLDs once I finish all edge comms.


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## Oldmancfop (Mar 27, 2019)

Boogie dude said:


> View attachment 10146
> Finally beat the 30 second barrier. Although it was a lot of luck and a pll skip. Still happy with this.


I'm close to you in speed and age, how long has it taken you to break 30, and how much do you practice?


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## OldManCuber (Mar 29, 2019)

Old cuber question here about better practicing... So, I'm learning 4x4 for a tournament, and realized I don't have the time to do a ton of the the long solves I could do with 3x3, 2x2, Pyraminx, Square-1, Clock. Typical story... married, kids, full time job, so I'm lucky to get a full hour a day practicing cubing.

So, here's my question... Does anyone have tips on focusing your practice time? For me, since I'm just learning Yau, I'm doing 30-40 repetitions of first 2 centers and first 3 edges and STOP. I need to get that down before moving and smooth before moving on to last 4 centers and last edge. I can do the full Yau solve in 3 minutes now, but it's all very slow. If I focus on just parts I need to improve, that makes my practice time more efficient and I don't need to spend 2-3-4 hours a day like these kids can.

Thoughts?


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## SpartanSailor (Mar 29, 2019)

OldManCuber said:


> Old cuber question here about better practicing... So, I'm learning 4x4 for a tournament, and realized I don't have the time to do a ton of the the long solves I could do with 3x3, 2x2, Pyraminx, Square-1, Clock. Typical story... married, kids, full time job, so I'm lucky to get a full hour a day practicing cubing.
> 
> So, here's my question... Does anyone have tips on focusing your practice time? For me, since I'm just learning Yau, I'm doing 30-40 repetitions of first 2 centers and first 3 edges and STOP. I need to get that down before moving and smooth before moving on to last 4 centers and last edge. I can do the full Yau solve in 3 minutes now, but it's all very slow. If I focus on just parts I need to improve, that makes my practice time more efficient and I don't need to spend 2-3-4 hours a day like these kids can.
> 
> Thoughts?


I think it’s good to focus your practice. What are the next focus areas for you? I would add building the remaining centres (as a next step when you are ready to move on) then edge pairing for another focus area. 

After that, it’s just the 3x3 phase. 

Perhaps donsome warmup drills with the OLL and PLL parity algs so you can have those in muscle memory. 

Best of luck at your up coming competition.


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## h2f (Mar 29, 2019)

OldManCuber said:


> So, here's my question... Does anyone have tips on focusing your practice time? For me, since I'm just learning Yau, I'm doing 30-40 repetitions of first 2 centers and first 3 edges and STOP. I need to get that down before moving and smooth before moving on to last 4 centers and last edge. I can do the full Yau solve in 3 minutes now, but it's all very slow. If I focus on just parts I need to improve, that makes my practice time more efficient and I don't need to spend 2-3-4 hours a day like these kids can.



I would recommend doing full solves. Reasons? In 4x4 you need to be good at all parts, not only the beginning. After doing doing centers and cross you need as well to be comfortable with edge paring in 3-2-3 scheme. Next goes normal solving but recognition of f2l is different than in 3x3 becasue of double edge - you brain needs to used to it. And the final - parities. Without practice it can be harder to recognize it. That's my opinion. Literally doing full solves let you to be comfortable with 4x4 and Yau method. You can bring your times quite easily to 2 minutes barrier.


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## AbsoRuud (Mar 29, 2019)

I just wanna add my two cents here on 4x4x4. Yau says that you have to find three white-colour edges and pair them up around the white center. For Roux, this does not matter at all, in my experience. I often find other pairs that I can quickly move to the white edge, saving me a lot of time trying to find all the white-colour edges. 

After the edge pairing, when using Roux, I only ever get two parity cases, so that's fairly easy to memorize. I get the "swap two edges" and "flip one edge" parity case. That's it. 

Something to consider when solving 4x4x4. If you use Roux, you don't have to deal with many parity cases and you don't have to fixate on finding white-colour edges for the first three edges.

That's how I use Yau with Roux on 4x4x4.


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## Sergey (Mar 29, 2019)

AbsoRuud said:


> I just wanna add my two cents here on 4x4x4. Yau says that you have to find three white-colour edges and pair them up around the white center. For Roux, this does not matter at all, in my experience. I often find other pairs that I can quickly move to the white edge, saving me a lot of time trying to find all the white-colour edges.
> 
> After the edge pairing, when using Roux, I only ever get two parity cases, so that's fairly easy to memorize. I get the "swap two edges" and "flip one edge" parity case. That's it.
> 
> ...


AFAIK, there are no more than those 2 parity cases - "swap two edges" aka PLL- and "flip one edge" aka OLL-parity, regardless on solving method. But there are more than two advanced methods to solve parities (something like ZBLL for 3x3 last layer) - for example.


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## OldManCuber (Mar 29, 2019)

h2f said:


> I would recommend doing full solves. Reasons? In 4x4 you need to be good at all parts, not only the beginning. After doing doing centers and cross you need as well to be comfortable with edge paring in 3-2-3 scheme. Next goes normal solving but recognition of f2l is different than in 3x3 becasue of double edge - you brain needs to used to it. And the final - parities. Without practice it can be harder to recognize it. That's my opinion. Literally doing full solves let you to be comfortable with 4x4 and Yau method. You can bring your times quite easily to 2 minutes barrier.



My point was that I don't have a lot of time to do a lot of full solves every night, so I was wondering for folks that don't have a lot of time, do they focus on specific areas during practice sessions? Last night I did 40 cycles of First 2 Centers with First 3 Edges then stopped. After which I did 10 full solves. FYI, my fastest 4x4 time is just 2:30 so you can so that in a regular practice session there's not a lot of full solves being done.


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## OldManCuber (Mar 29, 2019)

h2f said:


> I would recommend doing full solves. Reasons? In 4x4 you need to be good at all parts, not only the beginning. After doing doing centers and cross you need as well to be comfortable with edge paring in 3-2-3 scheme. Next goes normal solving but recognition of f2l is different than in 3x3 becasue of double edge - you brain needs to used to it. And the final - parities. Without practice it can be harder to recognize it. That's my opinion. Literally doing full solves let you to be comfortable with 4x4 and Yau method. You can bring your times quite easily to 2 minutes barrier.



That just means I can't do more than about 15 solves a night until I get much faster. I'm averaging 3 minutes a solve now with a best time of 2:30.


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## SpartanSailor (Mar 29, 2019)

h2f said:


> I would recommend doing full solves. Reasons? In 4x4 you need to be good at all parts, not only the beginning. After doing doing centers and cross you need as well to be comfortable with edge paring in 3-2-3 scheme. Next goes normal solving but recognition of f2l is different than in 3x3 becasue of double edge - you brain needs to used to it. And the final - parities. Without practice it can be harder to recognize it. That's my opinion. Literally doing full solves let you to be comfortable with 4x4 and Yau method. You can bring your times quite easily to 2 minutes barrier.


I agree. Although you can focus on particular sections as I described earlier, you definitely need to to do full solves in there too or you will quickly be stuck looking for what to do next.


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## OldManCuber (Mar 29, 2019)

Oldmancfop said:


> I have been learning cfop for around 6 months and practicing a lot. I have been making steady progress but i was wondering if it is considered a good idea to take a break for a few days now and then, I'm wondering if I'm over practicing.



Absolutely take a break from time to time! I find when I do too many solves in a day I get slower because I'm just going through the motions of solving instead of trying to go fast. Many times I've taken a several day break and come back with one of my best times.


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## SpartanSailor (Mar 29, 2019)

OldManCuber said:


> That just means I can't do more than about 15 solves a night until I get much faster. I'm averaging 3 minutes a solve now with a best time of 2:30.


I don’t do more than 15-20 4x4 solves a day anyway... I’m closer to 1:15 average. My hands get fatigued if I do many more than that. 

Ultimately, do what works for you. If you enjoy how you spend your time Cubing, then that’s the point. If you really want to become sub-1 or even faster then one way or another you will have to do hundreds if not thousands of solves. Some people do that in a month. Others, like me, do that over a few years. (I’m still working on it... )


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## h2f (Mar 29, 2019)

OldManCuber said:


> Absolutely take a break from time to time! I find when I do too many solves in a day I get slower because I'm just going through the motions of solving instead of trying to go fast. Many times I've taken a several day break and come back with one of my best times.



One more thing - dont measure your time. Just pracitce without it. Dont try to be fast - just try to be more efficient and fluid. Thats my 3 cents - I think I would be a better solver if I was trying different thing, not always measured my times. 


OldManCuber said:


> That just means I can't do more than about 15 solves a night until I get much faster. I'm averaging 3 minutes a solve now with a best time of 2:30.



Maybe try just solving sometimes, not always.  Good luck.


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## SpartanSailor (Mar 29, 2019)

@h2f makes a good point. The vast majority of my 4x4 solves are untimed. Just working on smoothness and trying to reduce pauses. Then, when the timer starts it all goes to crap... but overall it’s helpful to do untuned solves for me as well.


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## mark49152 (Mar 29, 2019)

OldManCuber said:


> That just means I can't do more than about 15 solves a night until I get much faster. I'm averaging 3 minutes a solve now with a best time of 2:30.


That's fine. IMHO, total time is a better measure of practice value than number of solves. One day you'll find you can do 30 solves in an hour but it won't make a difference because by that point you need to do twice as many solves anyway to keep improving .


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## pglewis (Mar 29, 2019)

Still using the Dayan TengYun M stickerless here, overall I'm still a fan. It has its own quirks but they all do; so far no fatal flaws have turned up. I'm not doing extended timed sessions for a while and blind practice has been in the freezer for ages so it's still too early to make any pronouncements about solving in anger. I was nearly ready to say it's too fast even for me without any lube to slow it but I believe it slowed some after about a week of solves plus, like always, I adjusted to it in a couple days. 

The magnets definitely feel quite light, even lighter than the GTS2M. I think the placement away from the very edge of the pieces is part of that. This is a positive for my tastes because strong magnets don't mix well for me with fast, light puzzles; I develop a light touch but then have to increase it to break the initial force. 

Another noteworthy thing is it may be the quietest 3x3 I've ever used.


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## SpartanSailor (Mar 30, 2019)

@openseas @Mike Hughey @mark49152 and the other BLD guys... any advice for practice methods that can help improve accuracy and memo speed? I know there’s no secret trick that beats practice and repetition. Just wondering if there are ways to aid improvement rather than simply doing tons of solves. 

I have a long run up to my next event... which currently is US Nationals. I qualified with a 2:31 and would love to do a sub-2 in Aug at the comp. but I’ll need to improve my accuracy and speed to make that happen.


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## h2f (Mar 31, 2019)

@SpartanSailor I redo bad 3bld solves to discover cause of mistake. When I was about 3 minutes this helps me a lot to increase my accuracy. This looks like normal 3 bld solve: I scramble, I do memo, I execute. Of course when you do in the 2nd or 3rd time it's faster but you can discover if it was memo mistake or execution mistake. In both cases there may be few causes.
For memo:
- just wrong - you look at wrong edge/corner
- you look at wrong spot of the sticker - maybe try touching next time
- you used the word that doesnt make any association in your mind - change a word. 
- other - I disoverd one day that with short nails my accuracy is little bit higher 

For execution you used wrong alg. But maybe it's just wrong setup? Try drilling. Etc. 

I've organized the competition in my town. Being an organizer makes no chance to make good solves so I'm happy to make 13.66 single. 

Here are results: http://cubecomps.com/live.php?cid=4148


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## Mike Hughey (Mar 31, 2019)

@SpartanSailor I agree with h2f that especially at your level, it is quite helpful to do post mortems on solves. With as much time as you have before Nationals, I would say you should consider going through a month or two where you try to figure out what went wrong on a significant percentage of your solves. That way you can find the consistent mistakes you're making, and fix them. Your accuracy should go up a great deal from that.

Other than that, I find that speed and accuracy are unfortunately mutually exclusive for me, and I always have a tendency to overemphasize accuracy. In order to improve speed, especially memorization speed, but also "thinking ahead" speed, it's really necessary to push yourself to go a little faster than you're actually capable of. And I find it very hard to bring myself to do that. I suspect the best strategy is to go through waves where you focus on one, then the other. So perhaps spend a week or two focusing on accuracy, then a week or two on speed, and go back and forth like that.

My personal experience has been that it's best to focus on accuracy immediately prior to US Nationals - that's how I've had my best success. People get nervous and do worse than at home when in competition, but if you've focused on accuracy, you'll probably do better than most people with that.

One other thing I think really helps if you have the time is to do really long BLD sessions, like 2 or 3 hours straight. If you're not used to that, the first 10 or 15 solves can be really painful, but eventually you get where you're used to having to memorize again and again, and you get where you can handle any number of BLD solves in a row with no problem. And that leads to much better accuracy, eventually.

At 2 minute speed, it may be more important to be able to "think ahead" well than it is to be able to initially memorize quickly. So when you practice, focus on thinking about your next pair while you're executing the current pair. It's a lot like looking ahead with regular 3x3x3, where you don't want to be thinking about the current pair in F2L, but rather be looking for what you'll do with the next pair. The same is true with BLD.

Anyway, those are some obvious things I can think of.

My suspicion is that you could probably really surprise yourself with some dedicated practice.


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## mark49152 (Mar 31, 2019)

@SpartanSailor : For speed there are a few kinds of dedicated practice I do, but accuracy just comes with lots of solves. I aim for 50-60% accuracy during practice - much higher than that suggests I'm not pushing speed enough.

For memo speed, you can practise tracing the cycles without memorizing, but as fast as you can. This helps with speed of recognising pieces and finding cycle starts, etc. 

You can also set a time limit on memo, by having the timer beep after N seconds. This puts pressure on you to rush your memo. After the beep, don the blindfold immediately, and solve as much as you can, even if DNF is inevitable.

Having a letter pair image list is very helpful to both speed and accuracy. Thinking up images on the fly wastes time and the images often aren't reliable.

I do various things to push execution speed too, but they are focused on comms and I don't think it's useful at 2-3 minutes anyway. Better to use dedicated practise to develop your memo speed and rely on full solves to develop your execution.


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## SpartanSailor (Mar 31, 2019)

@h2f thank you for the feedback. I think I will do the DNF redo process for a bit to see what caused he error. I’ll work on that for accuracy, since as you say the speed will naturally be faster the second or perhaps third time.

@Mike Hughey thanks for the advice. I think I will follow much of this—focus on accuracy and speed at different times, postmordomes, and doing longer dedicated sessions.

@mark49152 good points too. I’ve been reluctant to develop a letter pair list—it seemed like too much effort and not worth much for me at the time. But I think as I continue to progress, it is worth the effort and can improve the memo time as I notice I do spend time trying to think of something that works in the moment. Some pairs come naturally and tend to always be the same anyway....

I have no delusions of being in the top at Nationals... I just want to do well for me, and if I can apply all this in practice with consistency, I should be really well prepared for Nationals.

I do think there are easy ways to practice tracing and execution drills that do not required a LOT of effort and I can do that while watching the news or whatever at the same time.

Thannks guys.


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## openseas (Apr 2, 2019)

SpartanSailor said:


> @h2f thank you for the feedback. I think I will do the DNF redo process for a bit to see what caused he error. I’ll work on that for accuracy, since as you say the speed will naturally be faster the second or perhaps third time.
> 
> @Mike Hughey thanks for the advice. I think I will follow much of this—focus on accuracy and speed at different times, postmordomes, and doing longer dedicated sessions.
> 
> ...



@SpartanSailor / I’m not qualified to talk about the accuracy as all of us know:-(

I agree with all the comments from other folks, especially post mortems and practice part. When I practice, I always write down what was the cause or symptoms of a DNF. Sometimes, it is clear what went wrong - sometimes, difficult to figure it out since it was completely messed up. So, making records help to understand what to practice to reduce known errors. For example, certain letter pairs are prone to miss or get confused: then, switch the letter pair audio or image. Some comms are prone to get messed up - drill that comm, etc.

Speaking of images, at 2-3min, if you forget corners (CEEC case), you may spend more brain efforts during setup/unsetup which makes corner memo weak. Need more practice/drill to make setup/unsetup procedure more automatic. So, training stronger images and drilling executions are not exactly exclusive to each other.


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## AbsoRuud (Apr 9, 2019)

Hey other old folks. I just came back from my first competition. It was a lot of fun. I did well in some events, less well in others. 4x4x4 needs a lot of improvement, Clock needs improvement (I didn't make the cutoff for those two after two solves) but I did really well in 3x3x3 and Skewb, If I check the over 40s rankings, I'm now 16th in the world for Skewb average (Sorry Ron). 2x2x2 and Pyraminx went alright, but I didn't get close to the second round.


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## Mike Hughey (Apr 9, 2019)

AbsoRuud said:


> Hey other old folks. I just came back from my first competition. It was a lot of fun. I did well in some events, less well in others. 4x4x4 needs a lot of improvement, Clock needs improvement (I didn't make the cutoff for those two after two solves) but I did really well in 3x3x3 and Skewb, If I check the over 40s rankings, I'm now 16th in the world for Skewb average (Sorry Ron). 2x2x2 and Pyraminx went alright, but I didn't get close to the second round.


Made two second rounds at your first competition, and at speed events, no less - rather impressive for an oldie! Congratulations!


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## AbsoRuud (Apr 9, 2019)

Mike Hughey said:


> Made two second rounds at your first competition, and at speed events, no less - rather impressive for an oldie! Congratulations!



Thank you. I was quite surprised! On to the next competition!


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## OldManCuber (Apr 10, 2019)

Anyone else use Yau for 5x5? I'm picking up 5x5 this week, and decided to just go with the Yau method because I'm already learning Yau for 4x4 and have gotten a PB of 1:49 after 3 weeks. Anyway, does anyone have a breakdown of times for each step? I assume the breakdown will be different than for 4x4 because edge grouping will take longer.


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## OldManCuber (Apr 10, 2019)

pglewis said:


> Is this the same Varasano method that was adapted for 2x2 as Oretega?



Yes, it's the same. Jeffrey Varasano wrote the book "Conquer the Cube in 45 seconds" in 1981 where he lays out his Corners First method.


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## MarcelP (Apr 16, 2019)

pglewis said:


> Still using the Dayan TengYun M stickerless here, overall I'm still a fan. It has its own quirks but they all do; so far no fatal flaws have turned up. I'm not doing extended timed sessions for a while and blind practice has been in the freezer for ages so it's still too early to make any pronouncements about solving in anger. I was nearly ready to say it's too fast even for me without any lube to slow it but I believe it slowed some after about a week of solves plus, like always, I adjusted to it in a couple days.
> 
> The magnets definitely feel quite light, even lighter than the GTS2M. I think the placement away from the very edge of the pieces is part of that. This is a positive for my tastes because strong magnets don't mix well for me with fast, light puzzles; I develop a light touch but then have to increase it to break the initial force.
> 
> Another noteworthy thing is it may be the quietest 3x3 I've ever used.


I think this cube is absolutely fabulous! Like you said, it is probably the quitest cube ever produced. And it turns so nice that it is an actual joy to solve. I love it!


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## xyzzy (Apr 16, 2019)

OldManCuber said:


> Anyway, does anyone have a breakdown of times for each step? I assume the breakdown will be different than for 4x4 because edge grouping will take longer.


Had these numbers saved from somewhere; not sure how applicable/relevant they are.

First two centres: 15%
Partial cross: 15%
Last four centres: 20%
Last cross edge and edge pairing: 35%
3×3×3 stage (with cross already solved): 15%


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## pglewis (Apr 16, 2019)

MarcelP said:


> I think this cube is absolutely fabulous! Like you said, it is probably the quitest cube ever produced. And it turns so nice that it is an actual joy to solve. I love it!



I'm still exclusively using the Dayan for practice. It's another really busy period with work and I'm rarely doing timed sessions, however... that's usually the real tell-tale on whether I switch back to the GTS2M or not: break out the stackmat and sit down to do 50+ solves. But between the better shades and the feel I still really enjoy this puzzle and have used it exclusively since I got it.


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## One Wheel (Apr 20, 2019)

Just smashed through 2:00 for 5x5 single with a 1:50.77. Previous best in my regular 5x5 cstimer session was 2:05.65. Just a nice smooth solve, I remember two f2l pairs inserted with F’ L U F L’, or something to that effect, and ended with a G perm. Centers and edges just flowed well. 

I may have just come up with a new incentive to practice blind: there’s a comp in June that I might be able to get to that’s FMC, then all Blind events and Feet.


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## SpartanSailor (Apr 20, 2019)

One Wheel said:


> Just smashed through 2:00 for 5x5 single with a 1:50.77. Previous best in my regular 5x5 cstimer session was 2:05.65. Just a nice smooth solve, I remember two f2l pairs inserted with F’ L U F L’, or something to that effect, and ended with a G perm. Centers and edges just flowed well.
> 
> I may have just come up with a new incentive to practice blind: there’s a comp in June that I might be able to get to that’s FMC, then all Blind events and Feet.


1:50! That’s great. Very nice.


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## openseas (Apr 26, 2019)

Just got Dayan Tenyung M. 
Quite smooth out of the box, and very very quiet. This one will be my to-go cube especially when I fly  (for sleeping fellow air passengers).

A little bit scratchy, but became much smoother after several drops of D&M. Tension is a little bit weak but I like as it is. There are two more different spring sets (different length) - so, 3 different tension settings (not advanced like moyu or gan but the basic physics are pretty much the same, anyway).

Magnets are donut shape, not disc. That makes the magnet strength a little bit weaker but effective to a wider range, the way I like. I prefer larger disc but weaker strength for that reason.

It may not be good for aggressive cubers but good for BLDers. Between GTS 3 (DIY) M vs. Tenyung M, my main will be still GTS 3 (DIY) M.


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## Greycube (Apr 26, 2019)

Hi all. Just a quick intro 48 turning the big five ohhh next year. Set myself a challenge of getting to sub30 by at least my birthday next year.
Have been watching a few... a lot of youtube vids to get my head around things. I did find the hunting vids for f2l very useless as they helped me visual what was happening with the cube. Is there other vids like this out there?


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## Greycube (Apr 27, 2019)

I have recently bought the Yixin Kylin v2m cube and so far am loving it. Wondering what is a good starting lube for this item is.


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## One Wheel (Apr 27, 2019)

Greycube said:


> I have recently bought the Yixin Kylin v2m cube and so far am loving it. Wondering what is a good starting lube for this item is.



Welcome! Glad you found cubing and the speedsolving forum!

I don’t have that particular cube, but in general weight 5 or Traxxas 50k are highly recommended. Personally I’m a fan of Silk and occasionally DNM-37 for almost any cube. If those are too fast I do have a little weight 5 that I like to put on the core to smooth things out. 
I’m not sure which videos you’re referring to in your first post, do you mind posting a link? There are a lot of good videos out there, and even more unhelpful ones.


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## Greycube (Apr 27, 2019)

I checked the reviews of the lubes you suggested and silk does look the best buy. I will order a bottle and see how it goes. Thanks. 
Ridos Hunting Story for F2l is the youtube vid I watched. I liked the way he explained what was happing with movement with the cube. At first I thought it was a joke video but I after a few watches it all made sense.


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## openseas (Apr 27, 2019)

Greycube said:


> I have recently bought the Yixin Kylin v2m cube and so far am loving it. Wondering what is a good starting lube for this item is.



These days, many people use cubicle black for core, DNM for the rest. Just DNM whenever needed is easiest way.


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## Oldmancfop (Apr 29, 2019)

Finally, a 30 second average, that was harder than I expected!


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## Oldmancfop (Apr 29, 2019)

Greycube said:


> Hi all. Just a quick intro 48 turning the big five ohhh next year. Set myself a challenge of getting to sub30 by at least my birthday next year.
> Have been watching a few... a lot of youtube vids to get my head around things. I did find the hunting vids for f2l very useless as they helped me visual what was happening with the cube. Is there other vids like this out there?


I had the same goal, turned 49 in March, just managed my first sub 30 this afternoon (and a 21 pb, it's been a better day with the cube), took me just over 6 months, 25 feels a long way away!


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## pglewis (Apr 29, 2019)

Oldmancfop said:


> Finally, a 30 second average, that was harder than I expected!
> View attachment 10295


Congrats, that's a big milestone!


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## pglewis (Apr 29, 2019)

openseas said:


> Just got Dayan Tenyung M.
> Quite smooth out of the box, and very very quiet. This one will be my to-go cube especially when I fly  (for sleeping fellow air passengers).
> 
> A little bit scratchy, but became much smoother after several drops of D&M. Tension is a little bit weak but I like as it is. There are two more different spring sets (different length) - so, 3 different tension settings (not advanced like moyu or gan but the basic physics are pretty much the same, anyway).
> ...



Excellent review, I hadn't thought of the ring vs disc magnets and I think you're dead-on there. 

The OOTB scratchy/sandy feel went away for me in ~50-100 solves even without lubing, so fear not after first turns: it quickly becomes a smooth feeling puzzle.


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## openseas (Apr 30, 2019)

pglewis said:


> Excellent review, I hadn't thought of the ring vs disc magnets and I think you're dead-on there.
> 
> The OOTB scratchy/sandy feel went away for me in ~50-100 solves even without lubing, so fear not after first turns: it quickly becomes a smooth feeling puzzle.



Yes, agreed. After 1,000 solves, the scratch feeling is almost gone.

I was curious whether I can swap the core with GTS3. Both of them have very similar core shape (like crown shape core bottom). But the crown of Tenyung is located in the middle while GTS3 crown is located in the bottom of the plastic. In other words, Tenyung's center core is much deeper than GTS 3's. Once assemble everything, other pieces (edge and corner) are kinda squeezing in - the core/center parts are ending up with standing out / making non-even surface. Need to come up with a different idea. Gan 356 X core will be good, too but it is too pricey just to swap with cores :-(


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## One Wheel (May 1, 2019)

I just got possibly the most frustrating PB single ever. 4th scramble of the Weekly Comp. 



Spoiler: Cross



Green cross, yellow front: D R’ F D’



Easy F2L, wasted probably 2 seconds looking for the last F2L pair (already solved) and another 3 looking for the OLL (skip). Sloppy J-perm, and finished in 15.26, about 2.5 seconds better than my previous best, IIRC.


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## pglewis (May 1, 2019)

One Wheel said:


> I just got possibly the most frustrating PB single ever. 4th scramble of the Weekly Comp.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I feel your pain. My current PB was a full-step so you know there have been some "shoulda-coulda" solves that I managed to foul up somewhere along the way. 

Still, you were overdue for that one and a victory is a victory!


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## Greycube (May 1, 2019)

Oldmancfop said:


> I had the same goal, turned 49 in March, just managed my first sub 30 this afternoon (and a 21 pb, it's been a better day with the cube), took me just over 6 months, 25 feels a long way away!



Nice work mate! That's great inspiration to stop me putting the cube on the shelf on the FTS days


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## Sergey (May 1, 2019)

Spoiler: New 3x3 single PB - 12.10



D2 F' L2 F R2 F D2 L2 U2 B' R2 U' L U L D2 R' F' U L2

x2 y' // inspection
D2 L U' R' F // cross
U2 R U R' y' U L' U L // 1st pair
U2 R U' R' U R U R' // 2nd pair
y U' R U2 R' y U2 R U R' // 3rd pair
y' U2 R U' R' U' R U' R' U R U' R' // 4th pair
U' R U R' U' R' F R F' U' // OLL, PLL skip, AUF

alg.cubing.net

Not efficient at all, but tps was fine. GAN 356 X.


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## pglewis (May 8, 2019)

pglewis said:


> It's another really busy period with work and I'm rarely doing timed sessions, however... that's usually the real tell-tale on whether I switch back to the GTS2M or not: break out the stackmat and sit down to do 50+ solves.



I'll go ahead and make it official at this point: the stickerless TengYun has indeed usurped the GTS2M as my main. I accidentally picked up the GTS2M by mistake last night (with headphones on or I'd have noticed the different pitch) and was immediately annoyed that something had gone wrong with my puzzle. It felt all snappy and was fighting with with me the whole way, I've become very accustomed to the light magnet strength and lighter turn style of the TengYun. After I realized what happened I decided to pull out the GTS3M for comparison and it feels almost comically snappy to me with the strong magnets. The beauty of this hobby: falling in love with new hardware and immediately obsoleting every other puzzle in your collection. I feel for all you 356X folks, that's an expensive fix! 

Still in the midst of a super-busy work period with only a few dozen solves a day to keep from getting completely rusty. The usual stuff: lots of sup 25s when I timed yesterday, some OLL amnesia (I seem to be perpetually about a half dozen or so shy of 100%), lookahead regression, lost the gains I'd started to see practicing deeper unlimited inspection, and a couple full step 17s that could have been even faster for some relief that I haven't lost much as far as potential when things go well.


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## Oldmancfop (May 8, 2019)

pglewis said:


> I'll go ahead and make it official at this point: the stickerless Tenyung has indeed usurped the GTS2M as my main. I accidentally picked up the GTS2M by mistake last night (with headphones on or I'd have noticed the different pitch) and was immediately annoyed that something had gone wrong with my puzzle. It felt all snappy and was fighting with with me the whole way, I've become very accustomed to the light magnet strength and lighter turn style of the Tenyung. After I realized what happened I decided to pull out the GTS3M for comparison and it feels almost comically snappy to me with the strong magnets. The beauty of this hobby: falling in love with new hardware and immediately obsoleting every other puzzle in your collection. I feel for all you 356X folks, that's an expensive fix!
> 
> Still in the midst of a super-busy work period with only a few dozen solves a day to keep from getting completely rusty. The usual stuff: lots of sup 25s when I timed yesterday, some OLL amnesia (I seem to be perpetually about a half dozen or so shy of 100%), lookahead regression, lost the gains I'd started to see practicing deeper unlimited inspection, and a couple full step 17s that could have been even faster for some relief that I haven't lost much as far as potential when things go well.



How would you compare corner cutting on the Tenyung to the GTS3M?


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## pglewis (May 8, 2019)

Oldmancfop said:


> How would you compare corner cutting on the Tenyung to the GTS3M?



I'm useless as a gauge there, my turning style isn't very aggressive. If I do corner cut it's not something I'm aware of and all my puzzles are equally good at obliging me. The general consensus for some time now is all the modern flagship 3x3s cut more than adequately when setup for your style so it's not even much of a talking point in reviews these days.


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## Oldmancfop (May 8, 2019)

pglewis said:


> I'm useless as a gauge there, my turning style isn't very aggressive. If I do corner cut it's not something I'm aware of and all my puzzles are equally good at obliging me. The general consensus for some time now is all the modern flagship 3x3s cut more than adequately when setup for your style so it's not even much of a talking point in reviews these days.


Likewise I turn easy not aggressive, I didn't think I corner cut until I used a cheap magnetic cube that had poor corner cutting, it felt like it wasn't sprung. I may give the Tenyung a go, seems popular and isn't too costly.


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## Tom Joad (May 8, 2019)

pglewis said:


> I'll go ahead and make it official at this point: the stickerless Tenyung has indeed usurped the GTS2M as my main. I accidentally picked up the GTS2M by mistake last night (with headphones on or I'd have noticed the different pitch) and was immediately annoyed that something had gone wrong with my puzzle. It felt all snappy and was fighting with with me the whole way, I've become very accustomed to the light magnet strength and lighter turn style of the Tenyung. After I realized what happened I decided to pull out the GTS3M for comparison and it feels almost comically snappy to me with the strong magnets. The beauty of this hobby: falling in love with new hardware and immediately obsoleting every other puzzle in your collection. I feel for all you 356X folks, that's an expensive fix!
> 
> Still in the midst of a super-busy work period with only a few dozen solves a day to keep from getting completely rusty. The usual stuff: lots of sup 25s when I timed yesterday, some OLL amnesia (I seem to be perpetually about a half dozen or so shy of 100%), lookahead regression, lost the gains I'd started to see practicing deeper unlimited inspection, and a couple full step 17s that could have been even faster for some relief that I haven't lost much as far as potential when things go well.




Look ahead regression, haha, exactly the same thing happens to me when I have a spell of cubing less...


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## pglewis (May 8, 2019)

Oldmancfop said:


> Likewise I turn easy not aggressive, I didn't think I corner cut until I used a cheap magnetic cube that had poor corner cutting, it felt like it wasn't sprung. I may give the Tenyung a go, seems popular and isn't too costly.



Yeah, now that you mention it I can break out my tiled Rubik's brand (that I have just to have) and I certainly notice the lack of corner cutting. But just about anything I've tried in the past few years lets me get away with whatever it is I'm doing without much fuss and is just a matter of getting used to each puzzle's quirks. 

The TengYun is naturally a fast puzzle and the magnet feel is light, if those qualities sound like they suit you... though I think most puzzles are easily slowed with thicker silicone lube.


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## openseas (May 8, 2019)

Oldmancfop said:


> How would you compare corner cutting on the Tenyung to the GTS3M?



GTS3 M (light version) feels still stronger than Tenyung in terms of magnet strength.
My main is DIY GTS 3M - used weaker magnets on GTS 3. I'm alternating between GTS 3M (DIY) vs Tenyuang back and forth. Sometimes, I love the smoothness and no-noise of Tenyung better. I might use Tenyuang as my main this weekend.

As @pglewis wrote, I keep switching to new H/W, like every 6 month cycle - Valk 3 M(DIY) - GTS 2 M (DIY) - Gan 356 X (DIY M) - GTS 3M (DIY), now Tenyung, first time, no DIY, out of the box + DNM.

I still want to change Tenyung core / tension system.


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## Greycube (May 9, 2019)

pglewis said:


> I feel for all you 356X folks, that's an expensive fix!



I just got mine on Tuesday. At sub 2minutes with a cheat sheet on OLL and PLL on the table, this cube is more than overkill for me. But I wipe bums for a living, so like to come home to little luxury


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## One Wheel (May 9, 2019)

Greycube said:


> I wipe bums for a living, so like to come home to little luxury


I like your way of thinking. Maybe I’ll have to pull the trigger on the Galaxy v2 m and some big cubes I’ve been ogling.


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## Greycube (May 9, 2019)

I am curious to know how everyone structures their training sessions. Short from complete solves, what do you do?
Ie 15min f2l, 10 minute cross, 10 min oll, etc. I seem to be spinning my wheels lately


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## One Wheel (May 10, 2019)

Greycube said:


> I am curious to know how everyone structures their training sessions. Short from complete solves, what do you do?
> Ie 15min f2l, 10 minute cross, 10 min oll, etc. I seem to be spinning my wheels lately


Practice is for noobs, I just solve. Which may be part of the reason I’m still solidly over 25 seconds after 5 (or is it 4?) years of cubing.


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## xyzzy (May 10, 2019)

pglewis said:


> Tenyung





openseas said:


> Tenyung


(psst it's spelt "Teng Yun"; there's no "yung" in pinyin, the standard Chinese transliteration system)


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## Greycube (May 10, 2019)

One Wheel said:


> Practice is for noobs, I just solve. Which may be part of the reason I’m still solidly over 25 seconds after 5 (or is it 4?) years of cubing.



Lol 25secs, I dream of that day. I am doing full solves now. I think f2l with sweet FA look ahead and very poor fingering positioning is holding me back at the moment. This is a great a site with a lot of material and knowledge but its a little like Boardgame Geek, is taking a bit to find what I need in the forums.


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## auienrst (May 10, 2019)

One Wheel said:


> Practice is for noobs, I just solve. Which may be part of the reason I’m still solidly over 25 seconds after 5 (or is it 4?) years of cubing.



Same here…
I try to do some FB/SB training http://cubegrass.appspot.com/block_trainer/ and slow solves with unlimited inspection, but I quickly go to solve-only-mode and am happy with skips that lower my times…


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## pglewis (May 10, 2019)

xyzzy said:


> (psst it's spelt "Teng Yun"; there's no "yung" in pinyin, the standard Chinese transliteration system)



Oops, my weird dyslexia surfaced; fixed. Also: if I say left or right just assume I selected one at random and it's a 50/50 shot I'll have to go back and edit. And there's a fair chance I'll mistakenly call you "plugh" at some point.



Greycube said:


> I am curious to know how everyone structures their training sessions. Short from complete solves, what do you do? Ie 15min f2l, 10 minute cross, 10 min oll, etc. I seem to be spinning my wheels lately



My progress has been relatively slow so... grain of salt and all that. Could just be me and/or the amount of practice time I have, or maybe I could progress faster if I weren't so allergic to "drills".

For the most part I just "spam solves". I typically do a period of a few weeks mostly without timing, doing F2L slowly enough that I don't have to pause much and evaluating which cases seem to throw sand in the gears. I focus on improving one or two troublesome cases at a time because that's all my brain seems to allow. Then I get my timer legs back and check my progress for maybe a week or two; rinse, repeat. Some people can do all that and still time their sessions without feeling timer pressure but I find it a lot easier to tinker with my solves without timing.

If you don't have full PLL down yet I suggest making that a focus. Otherwise, F2L is where the majority of the time is spent and you want to solve most F2L cases in 8 or fewer moves, with a few 11 move exceptions. Be on the lookout for the worst cases that take more moves than that as well as ones that induce pauses figuring out which case it is. A couple other random things:

* If you don't pay attention to edge orientation, now is a good time to start. Edge orientation can tell you if you need to rotate or not even before you've recognized the specific case. I go by the top color of my F2L edge if it's in the U layer, if it matches or is opposite the front color I'm already oriented (JPerm teaches this the opposite way: if the side color of the edge in the U layer matches one of the side colors... whatever works). If the edge is in a slot and not the U layer, compare the color with the center it's next to, same or opposite color is oriented. Secondarily, you can also avoid dot cases in OLL by paying attention to the edge orientation when solving the last pair.

* Develop a preference for solving your first pairs in the back when possible. Lookahead is improved when the pieces you need to find have fewer blind spots to hide in. This probably won't pay a lot of dividends right now but if you get in the habit it's one less thing to adjust to later.

* Practice solving your pairs blind. Spot your pair, determine the case, close your eyes, solve them, open eyes, repeat. My own allergy to drills keeps me from doing this much but I have no doubt it's a highly beneficial exercise.

* Pay attention to smoothing out transitions: cross => F2L, F2L => OLL. That first pair after solving the cross is a notorious time eater. 

* If you're _really_ feeling stuck on progress, maybe experiment with a different method like ZZ or Roux. There's less pressure on yourself when learning new stuff and you might find another method just clicks better for you. Worst case IMO is you try it and abandon it, but still come out on the other side with more concepts to apply to your CFOP solves.


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## Mike Hughey (May 10, 2019)

pglewis said:


> And there's a fair chance I'll mistakenly call you "plugh" at some point.


I think I accidentally called him "plover" at some point in the past.


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## Greycube (May 11, 2019)

@pglewis that you for the effort you went to for your reply. Definitely have taken a lot away from that. F2l is my biggest hurdle but your tips on edging and solving the backs first will be my focus for a while. Thank you.

@auienrst thanks for that link


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## White KB (May 11, 2019)

MarcelP said:


> Hi Guys,
> 
> My name is Marcel, 42 years old. I have learned to solve the cube at age 11 - 12 or so. I had not touched a cube a maybe 15 - 20 years. A few weeks ago I solved a cube and found it very nice to see that I still knew how to do that. When I looked at youtube I found amazing stuff from you speedsolvers. I thought it was the most amazing thing I have ever seen. I solved the cube in a layer by layer which could take up to 10 minutes.
> 
> ...


I know this is from 7 years ago, but get the GAN X with Numerical IPG. It's way better than DaYan... trust me.


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## pglewis (May 11, 2019)

Did three days at normal practice level to keep things from sliding. No consistency but I did hit a spell with 5 full step :18s in a span of about 8 or 9 solves. Biggest issue is mistakes, a fair bit of that being rust. So three days brush-up after about six weeks of minimal practice and I'm back to threatening my single and short averages.


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## openseas (May 12, 2019)

I'm on a business trip in Korea - registered a local comp for the weekend.
It's a "PlayX4" - kinda expo for gamers (video games, board games, puzzles, speedstack, and of course, cubing). A large convention center with tons of noises. Cubing competition got a booth right next to "Overwatch" game competition area with live broadcasting. So, basically, you can't understand what your neighbor is saying. But aside from the noise, quite fun competition.

Past couple of days, drilling new setup comms kind of slowed me down quite a bit and made me difficult to focus on memo/recall. I think it is due to the part that I'm trying to remember latest drilled comms constantly. My practice success rate was less than 10% coming into the competition. 
I guess due to my extreme low expectations, my comp results were not that horrible. I've got first official sub 1 (57.64s) in 3BLD. It was 10 algs. 6 edges, 3 corners + 1 twist. I had a little bit of corner recall pause and execution didn't fell that smooth. So, I was quite surprised that it was 57s.

At the final, I started the memo and felt quite good (9 alg) - quickly tried to execute but only realized there was no blindfold. Not on my head, not in the pocket, nowhere. I was about to give up then found a un-attended blindfold in the station (kinda luck), used that one after wasting good 20s. Not only the time I wasted but also forgot the most of memo. I managed to figure out audio and moved to corner. I had a little bit of pause for corner recall but was able to recall then started. When I finished 3rd corner comm, then, realized I had no idea what was the 4th corner pair. There were only two corner pieces left - just guessed one pair and did that - didn't expect to be a success. When I opened my eyes, the cube was, of course, unsolved by the exact corner comms I just did. Turned out, there was no 4th comm: so, I solved it but somehow thought there was one more pair, executed a random pair comm, made a solved cube to a DNF :-( After this dramatic event, kind of lost, couldn't recall the rest of the attempts, got a triple DNF. Those big noised from the neighboring booth, broadcasting game battle was not that helpful either.

But any how, I'm still excited about my first sub 1.

As a bonus, I've got another 18s in 3x3x3. My 3x3x3 strategy is just simple - if you do tons of official solves, you'll end up with some luck scramble / leading to PBs at some points. I'm getting PBs past 3 comps which means my strategy works


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## Logiqx (May 15, 2019)

It's a long time since I was a regular on this thread but I see some new names on recent posts.

I've spent a fair bit of time working on the over-40's rankings in recent weeks so I thought I'd post a link on this thread.

Please drop me a PM if you'd like to be added to the list.

http://logiqx.github.io/wca-ipy/


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## Greycube (May 16, 2019)

Logiqx said:


> It's a long time since I was a regular on this thread but I see some new names on recent posts.
> 
> I've spent a fair bit of time working on the over-40's rankings in recent weeks so I thought I'd post a link on this thread.
> 
> ...



Every nice. looking forward to getting added when I do my first comp in September. Any chance though you can choose to sort by country?


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## Logiqx (May 16, 2019)

Greycube said:


> Every nice. looking forward to getting added when I do my first comp in September. Any chance though you can choose to sort by country?



I pondered it for a while but there are a few complications.

The first is that the report is regular markdown (converted to HTML by GitHub Pages) and the layout is at the mercy of the device and browser. I've chosen to combine the name + country to ensure the cleanest possible look on mobile devices. To make the tables sortable would require the country to be in a separate column and when I tried that it looked terrible on my phone, hence why they are combined.

Secondly it is isn't feasible to do to the representative rankings since the unknowns are well... unknown. 

Lastly and possible most importantly, I only know the WCA IDs of around 10% of the over-40's. Whilst I could produce reports per country it would be somewhat misleading and any claim to top-10 etc would more than likely be misplaced.

People can always to "search on page" to find the known results of their fellow countrymen.

Drop me a PM when you can be added to the list.


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## Logiqx (May 19, 2019)

Rankings for 40+, 50+, 60+, 70+ and 80+ are now available!

The new reports might be short but they are still pretty interesting imho.

https://logiqx.github.io/wca-ipy/


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## One Wheel (May 20, 2019)

Been looking for this one for a long time:

Edit to add: after this solve I stopped working on 4x4 for the day, except for a couple of unremarkable relay solves later. Today I came back and did 4x4 for the weekly comp, and the first solve was 55.65. The rest of the average was unremarkable, but my 4x4 cstimer session has 59.81 and 55.65 back to back.


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## Mike Hughey (May 20, 2019)

Ugh you beat me to it.


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## pglewis (May 20, 2019)

One Wheel said:


> Been looking for this one for a long time:View attachment 10374



Nicely done and well earned!


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## OldManCuber (May 22, 2019)

Curious how you older cubers train when you have busy lives, married, kids, jobs, etc. We just don't have the time the teens have, to train 6 hours a day... lol

Anyway, I'm working on 2x2, 3x3, 4x4, and now working on 5x5. I want to get better on each, but I just don't have the time to give each puzzle the time it needs to get better. I cube for about 25-30 minutes at lunch and then 45-60 minutes in the evenings, and 2-ish hours a day on the weekends.

So, how do you guys train when you're trying to get better at multiple puzzles and only have a limited amount of time? Some thoughts:
-- I could cycle through each puzzle daily
-- Focus on each puzzle for a few days to work on different techniques and algs before moving on
-- Focus on each puzzle until you hit your goals, then move to the next puzzle. This could take a day or take a month.

Thoughts? What do you guys do?


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## SpartanSailor (May 22, 2019)

I used to try to get better at everything all at the same time.... needless to say that is a fools errand. 

I tend to focus on one or two things at a time. 3x3 tends to remain in the stable, since I’m at a point where I need to do a couple thousands solves to improve consistency. No way to get those without keeping at it. Especially since I don’t even average 50 times solves a day...

Then another event will get my attention for a couple weeks or so. I find that I need at least a solid week of attention to see any sort of improvement at all. Especially on bigger cubes like 444,555,666 or 777. As summer approaches, I’ll limit my practice to 3x3 and 3BLD. 

That doesn’t mean I don’t tinker with other puzzles, I’m just not focused on speed or anything just having fun.


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## h2f (May 23, 2019)

OldManCuber said:


> Thoughts? What do you guys do?



I think it's hard to be good in multiple puzzels for us oldies. In my opinion, best option is to focus on one puzzle and when you are quite good in it - try different puzzle. The puzzles you are about to practice are various. 2x2 is the easiest. You need only Ortega and a lot of solves to hit sub6 or sub-5 barrier globaly. Puzzles like 4x4 and 5x5 on the other hand require to be quite good (at least sub20 globally) in 3x3. That's why I would suggest to focus on 3x3. But if you are bored doing 3x3 practice - do others. I think the important thing is to practice what you like.

These days I do mostly FMC (1 solve every day - if I have time) and 3bld. In 3bld - drilling algs and solving with stackmat. But I do this because I have a competition on Sunday. I'm far away from my best times when I was practicing 3bld a lot.


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## One Wheel (May 23, 2019)

h2f said:


> 2x2 is the easiest. You need only Ortega and a lot of solves to hit sub6 or sub-5 barrier globaly.



Depending on what you mean by easiest, I would respectfully disagree. Personally I don’t feel that I have the dexterity and finger speed (although I’m not sure how much of that is attributable to age, I can’t imagine it will get better over the next few decades) to be competitive at 2x2. I think I do have the dexterity to be competitive at big cubes, just not the fluidity. I don’t see fluidity of solving decreasing as long as I practice and don’t have serious neural degeneration.


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## h2f (May 23, 2019)

@One Wheel 

Yes, it's up of defintion. I was thinking like you some time ago.


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## Mike Hughey (May 23, 2019)

I would agree that it's very hard for us oldies to be truly competitive at 2x2x2, but that's only because "truly competitive at 2x2x2" means pretty insane speed. But sub-5 (which I still wouldn't consider "competitive") is definitely in range for most of us oldies. If I had kept practicing it a bit, I could have easily managed sub-5, but I got bored with it once I was getting close to sub-6 and stopped practicing, and I doubt I'll ever really practice it again; it just doesn't interest me. But sub-5 is about like sub-18 3x3x3, and most oldies have plenty enough speed to manage that, but again it's just practice. I seriously doubt I'll ever get sub-18 3x3x3 either, again because I'm too bored with it to really practice it.  Big cubes are just much more fun.

Edit: I thought it might make sense to mention what I would consider "competitive" at 2x2x2. How about this: for US Nationals, they say they will take the top 160 into the second round. Currently (with only half the total competitor slots filled), the top 160 averages in the psych sheet require an average of 3.52 seconds. So I guess maybe it would be reasonable to consider "competitive at 2x2x2" to be 3 seconds or so, since that's what it would take to get you to just the second round at US Nationals?


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## SpartanSailor (May 24, 2019)

Good point, @Mike Hughey ... regarding how to define competitive. I think being fast enuff to make the second round is a good way to look at it. Taking that logic forward, the top 200 will make the second round in 3x3. Currently that’s 10.94s. 

I, too, practiced 2x2 for a bit and got to a point, mid5s to low 6s, and lost interest to push myself to be faster. 

3x3 seems to take me long periods to see improvements, then even longer to re-establish consistency. I simply can’t imagine a day that I’ll ever be a 10s solver with 3x3. 

My new favourite is 4x4. I’ve always liked it, but I’m at a point where I can still yield notable improvement with dedicated practice. Although, I find parity to be annoying sometimes, the fact that they happen keeps the puzzle more interesting.


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## Mike Hughey (May 24, 2019)

SpartanSailor said:


> Good point, @Mike Hughey ... regarding how to define competitive. I think being fast enuff to make the second round is a good way to look at it. Taking that logic forward, the top 200 will make the second round in 3x3. Currently that’s 10.94s.


Wow - insane how good people in general have gotten at 3x3x3. So far out of my range it's frightening.


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## openseas (May 24, 2019)

Mike Hughey said:


> Wow - insane how good people in general have gotten at 3x3x3. So far out of my range it's frightening.



Yes, indeed. And that’s why I prefer BLDs, drawing less attention to young folks, still putting me in to the competitive range. 

Even 3BLD now, the progress of many folks become insane, it was only Kaijun who recorded sub 20 only 3 years ago but now so many folks are getting there. Largely thanks to Ginfranco and folks continuous development of new Alf’s, theories and practice.


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## SpartanSailor (May 24, 2019)

openseas said:


> Yes, indeed. And that’s why I prefer BLDs, drawing less attention to young folks, still putting me in to the competitive range.
> 
> Even 3BLD now, the progress of many folks become insane, it was only Kaijun who recorded sub 20 only 3 years ago but now so many folks are getting there. Largely thanks to Ginfranco and folks continuous development of new Alf’s, theories and practice.


I think that’s some of the appeal of BLD for me too. Certainly, it adds to my interest to learn 4BLD.


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## pglewis (May 24, 2019)

One of my comps in Nashville 2017 had about a hundred 3x3 competitors; top 32 went to 2nd round, worst average to make the second round cut: 15:13. As I get faster so does the rest of the herd . 



openseas said:


> [...] And that’s why I prefer BLDs, drawing less attention to young folks, still putting me in to the competitive range.



The other big thing that makes blind events a different animal is the DNF rate, of course. My one official success was only 15 seconds shy of the cutoff yet I landed 6th due to eleven people DNFing.


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## openseas (May 24, 2019)

pglewis said:


> The other big thing that makes blind events a different animal is the DNF rate, of course. My one official success was only 15 seconds shy of the cutoff yet I landed 6th due to eleven people DNFing.



All my podiums speak for themselves


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## SpartanSailor (May 25, 2019)

@openseas what is the longest DNF streak for 4BLD attempts prior to a first success (official)?


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## Mike Hughey (May 25, 2019)

I don't know if this is the longest, but Lucas Garron had 25 4BLD DNFs before his first success. He has since had 4 successes.


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## SpartanSailor (May 25, 2019)

Wow! After August... I’m going to begin really trying to learn 4BLD. I suspect I’ll have a decently long DNF streak before attaining an official success.


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## openseas (May 25, 2019)

SpartanSailor said:


> @openseas what is the longest DNF streak for 4BLD attempts prior to a first success (official)?



It's 36 for 4 BLD.
I'm top 4 5BLD DNF streak and top 5 in the most consecutive 3BLD mo3 DNF streak, btw 

https://jonatanklosko.github.io/wca...D4II8GfKel4u_HbrnJa8uCwb1oQNQQNyKDHET_vCArTGA


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## h2f (May 25, 2019)

openseas said:


> It's 36 for 4 BLD.
> I'm top 4 5BLD DNF streak and top 5 in the most consecutive 3BLD mo3 DNF streak, btw
> 
> https://jonatanklosko.github.io/wca...D4II8GfKel4u_HbrnJa8uCwb1oQNQQNyKDHET_vCArTGA




I dont know why Im not there. I got 14 DNFs in 5bld.


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## openseas (May 25, 2019)

h2f said:


> I dont know why Im not there. I got 14 DNFs in 5bld.



You need at least one success to be listed there  it’s The most DNF streak before the first success.


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## SpartanSailor (May 25, 2019)

Is that attempts or number of comps?

I remember you mentioning you were among the longest 5BLD DNF streaks before your first success.


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## h2f (May 25, 2019)

openseas said:


> You need at least one success to be listed there  it’s The most DNF streak before the first success.



 Ach ok. Thanks. I dont think I'm gonna have success this year - it looks like I cant attend competition with 5bld.


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## openseas (May 25, 2019)

SpartanSailor said:


> Is that attempts or number of comps?
> 
> I remember you mentioning you were among the longest 5BLD DNF streaks before your first success.



Number of attempts. My DNF streak is 4th in the world.


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## pglewis (May 25, 2019)

I'm still in 3x3 slow solve mode right now, focusing on cases where the edge or corner is in the wrong slot. Most of my F2L cases are solid but those particular ones still slow me when they turn up and contribute to the wobbly average. There are only a few of those cases I need to change but I still need to develop better case recognition for the ones I was doing "right". I'm not bothering to track averages knowing this is necessarily going to slow me down a few seconds until the new stuff is absorbed. For singles, full-step 17s are a thing, generally about two of those show up per day along with the occasional 16. It has been a while since I've had a skip during a good solve; I had a shoulda-coulda 15 flat two weeks ago with a PLL skip but +2'ed it. 

3bld is beyond what I could call "rusty" at this point, it's been so long I'll have to relearn some of my M2 algs. I do want to get it back in shape though, I'd like to get to at least one comp before the year is done and blind is the only thing besides 3x3 I'm interested in as far as official solves right now.


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## Sergey (May 26, 2019)

Spoiler: New 3x3 PB - 11.98



as executed, toooo many rotations, but...

z2 // inspection
D' L R B' R2 //cross
y' U' R U' R' L U' L' //1st
y' U' R U R' U' R U R' //2nd
y2 L' U L //3rd
U' R U' R' U2 y L' U' L //4th
R U2 R' U' R U' R' U2 //OLL, PLL skip, AUF

@alg.cubing.net



About my training - all by mood. Most of the time it is 3x3 (if it is possible I'm trying to do 100+ timed solves a day). Further descending - 4x4 and 5x5. Sometimes in the evening - 2-3 6x6 and 7x7 untimed solves.


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## openseas (May 26, 2019)

pglewis said:


> 3bld is beyond what I could call "rusty" at this point, it's been so long I'll have to relearn some of my M2 algs. I do want to get it back in shape though, I'd like to get to at least one comp before the year is done and blind is the only thing besides 3x3 I'm interested in as far as official solves right now.



You may want to learn advanced M2. Once you understand how it works, not much memo needed. You can actually enjoy figuring out those comms (M2 heavy) in your practice run. I almost forgot M2 algs (special cases & middle slice layer cases), too.


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## pglewis (May 26, 2019)

Sergey said:


> Spoiler: New 3x3 PB - 11.98
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Well done and a good reminder for me to practice back-Sune more, I don't use it speedsolves. What was your previous single and what are you averaging these days?


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## Tom Joad (May 26, 2019)

pglewis said:


> Well done and a good reminder for me to practice back-Sune more, I don't use it speedsolves. What was your previous single and what are you averaging these days?



I think my times are just a bit faster than yours so here’s mine, maybe you can aim for something like this?

PB 12.4
Ao5 15.8 (not really, I was using unlimited inspection to look for first pair, it’s 16.1 really)
Ao12 16.6 (usually more like 17.5 but I was in the zone)
Ao100 18.8

I don’t think I care much for my luckiest single or my average of 100. I like to focus on beating my average of 5 and average of 12 when I’m in the zone.

Sometimes I feel like I can almost reach out and touch sub 15 and then other times it feels like my progress has been almost nothing in the last year or two.

I’m still convinced that maximising lookahead during inspection is key to progress and I will now start each session with 20 unlimited inspection solves. I feel like this was helping when I tried it today but then my brain started hurting.


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## pglewis (May 26, 2019)

Tom Joad said:


> I think my times are just a bit faster than yours so here’s mine, maybe you can aim for something like this?
> 
> PB 12.4
> Ao5 15.8 (not really, I was using unlimited inspection to look for first pair, it’s 16.1 really)
> ...



You're up 4 or 5 seconds on me, which at this stage is definitely at another level. My current low :18 Ao5 is an outlier and it's still rare for me to get a sub :20 Ao5. I can get effortless feeling full-step :18s now but I still haven't fully assimilated a few things, leading to 2 or 3 small mistakes per solve typically and a bell-curve around :23. My primary short term milestone is a sub 20 Ao12, I have all the tools to do it with just a smidge more consistency. 

The ".6 guideline" from a 23 average says a sub :14 single is in my future with the perfect storm so I just shrug that off to statistics and hope the timer is running when it comes. [0.6 * 19 = 11.4, so looks like you're due for that sub 12]. 

I'm close to being in the same boat, where the best gains are in deeper inspection. I was doing 4 and 5 move cross exercises with unlimited inspection and two things were clear: 1) it can improve my averages significantly if I can predict just an edge and its orientation and 2) it's going to be somewhat of a long-game before it really clicks well enough to do it in 10-12 seconds. I need to keep at it for that very reason though and it felt like there were some immediate benefits, if only a little better first pair lookahead. I haven't done that or cross+1 drills since then, though. 

Currently I'm spending 10 mins or so a day trying cross through F2L with a metronome set at 60bpm. One move per second is very easy for me to keep up with but it immediately exposes cases I recognize slowly or when I'm letting my lookahead lapse. Ironing out the hiccups it exposes should lead to a lot more sub 20s for me.

And then there's last slot/last layer drills, which I'm sure wouldn't harm me one bit right now...


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## Tom Joad (May 26, 2019)

pglewis said:


> You're up 4 or 5 seconds on me, which at this stage is definitely at another level. My current low :18 Ao5 is an outlier and it's still rare for me to get a sub :20 Ao5. I can get effortless feeling full-step :18s now but I still haven't fully assimilated a few things, leading to 2 or 3 small mistakes per solve typically and a bell-curve around :23. My primary short term milestone is a sub 20 Ao12, I have all the tools to do it with just a smidge more consistency.
> 
> The ".6 guideline" from a 23 average says a sub :14 single is in my future with the perfect storm so I just shrug that off to statistics and hope the timer is running when it comes. [0.6 * 19 = 11.4, so looks like you're due for that sub 12].
> 
> ...



1. Yes my next PB single is well overdue. Possibly because I spent so much of the last year focusing on oll, which is certainly the least rewarding practice.

2. Yes the unlimited inspection time yields such a smoother solve but the idea of seeing all that in 10 seconds currently seems impossible. Definitely a long, long game.

3. It’s so long since I did any pll drills... I know it would help a great deal but always prioritise other stuff. My pll auf integration has become a complete mess, need to focus on that explicitly for a month or two but it’s way down my list of priorities!

4. The .6 thing is interesting. I feel like my last year’s cubing has only made my worst solves better and hence made me more consistent but hardly improved my best solves. When I used to compare cubers Ao5 with their PB in the rankings, I notice any cuber with a Ao5 of 12 secs or more really struggled to post a sub10 single in competition. It seems like the standard deviation of their solve times became much smaller by this point so to have a realistic chance of a sub 10 in competition you needed to be averaging sub 12. But it’s a long time since I looked, maybe I am misremembering.

5. Good luck and enjoy


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## pglewis (May 26, 2019)

Tom Joad said:


> 4. The .6 thing is interesting. I feel like my last year’s cubing has only made my worst solves better and hence made me more consistent but hardly improved my best solves. When I used to compare cubers Ao5 with their PB in the rankings, I notice any cuber with a Ao5 of 12 secs or more really struggled to post a sub10 single in competition. It seems like the standard deviation of their solve times became much smaller by this point so to have a realistic chance of a sub 10 in competition you needed to be averaging sub 12. But it’s a long time since I looked, maybe I am misremembering.



It's just a random guideline I picked up from someone here without a clue to the original source, but it's based of your rough global avg (and of course ignores "official" times, which just limits the attempts you get to land it). It instinctively feels like some percentage of your best Ao5 would be a better indicator since that's more indicative of your top potential, but .6 of my general average has been a surprisingly good ballpark for what to expect for PB singles thus far.


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## Greycube (May 27, 2019)

Just curious. Is there a facebook group for the followers of this thread?
I have started an insta account to track myself, wondering who is also doing the same.


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## h2f (May 27, 2019)

Greycube said:


> Just curious. Is there a facebook group for the followers of this thread?
> I have started an insta account to track myself, wondering who is also doing the same.



Yes, it's here: https://www.facebook.com/groups/1604105099735401/


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## Greycube (May 27, 2019)

h2f said:


> Yes, it's here: https://www.facebook.com/groups/1604105099735401/


Noice. Thanks you


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## Sergey (May 27, 2019)

pglewis said:


> Well done and a good reminder for me to practice back-Sune more, I don't use it speedsolves. What was your previous single and what are you averaging these days?


Thanks! Previous single was 12.10 about month ago. Best avgs now are 17.03/18.30/18.84/19.49. But stability is quit poor. I cannot even say that I'm confidently sub20 solver, still huge amount of solves are over20. BTW, last PB solve OLL was regular anti-sune not back-sune.


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## pglewis (May 27, 2019)

Sergey said:


> [...] BTW, last PB solve OLL was regular anti-sune not back-sune.



Ah, I've been using the wrong name for that. I thought anti-Sune was the variant I _do_ use, R' U2 R U R' U R. Maybe I had the two names reversed... I couldn't even find "back Sune" in a Google search just now and I swear it used to be in the variant list in the wiki but I'm not finding it anywhere in the page history. 

Anti-sune and its mirror are so easy to incorporate though and it'd give me three angles for my Sunes.


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## Sergey (May 27, 2019)

pglewis said:


> I thought anti-Sune was the variant I _do_ use, R' U2 R U R' U R.


AFAIK it's right-hand "back anti-sune", regular (right-hand) sune is R U R' U R U2 R', and it's anti- version is R U2 R' U' R U' R' (reverse alg in fact).

If I understand correctly, in case of regular sune case I can do regular alg, or U+left-hand anti-sune, or U2+left-hand back-sune, or U'+back anti-sune.


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## pglewis (May 27, 2019)

Aaaand just had a near miss with a full-step 14.36, friendly cross and F2L. Why'd it have to be an F-Perm?! 



Spoiler: 14.36



B' D2 L2 F' D2 L2 U2 F2 R2 B D' L2 B U R F L2 U' L U2

z2 y' // Inspection
R' F B' D // Cross
R' U' R L' U L // 1st pair
U' R U' R' y' L' U' L // 2nd pair
y' L U2 L2 U L // 3rd pair, cancel into 4th pair
U' (r U R' U') (r' F R F') // AUF, T OCLL
R' U' F' R U R' U' R' F R2 U' R' U' R U R' U R U2 // F-Perm, AUF


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## SpartanSailor (May 27, 2019)

pglewis said:


> Aaaand just had a near miss with a full-step 14.36, friendly cross and F2L. Why'd it have to be an F-Perm?!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I don’t mind f-perms. I can execute those as fast as any PLL. It’s the N and G perms that give me the most issue.


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## pglewis (May 27, 2019)

SpartanSailor said:


> I don’t mind f-perms. I can execute those as fast as any PLL. It’s the N and G perms that give me the most issue.



I don't mind them too much, but an R, J, or any EPLL and that one likely would have been a sub 14 for me. Still happy, mind you, that one is promising.


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## Mike Hughey (May 27, 2019)

pglewis said:


> Aaaand just had a near miss with a full-step 14.36, friendly cross and F2L. Why'd it have to be an F-Perm?!


*Nobody does the F perm*
List of people who do the F perm


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## One Wheel (May 28, 2019)

Mike Hughey said:


> *Nobody does the F perm*
> List of people who do the F perm


Somehow that’s a rabbit hole I had missed until now. I’m glad there’s a record of that stuff. I need to find some Orangina now, I once did a pint of milk in 5 seconds, I feel like a liter in 30 seconds is very beatable.


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## Tom Joad (May 28, 2019)

SpartanSailor said:


> I don’t mind f-perms. I can execute those as fast as any PLL. It’s the N and G perms that give me the most issue.



Have you had a look back at that solve? 

A four move xcross which you then broke up (because you didn’t know it was solved?)

Haha, that kind of thing must happen to me all the time because I don’t bother to use my inspection properly. And yet I never even thought about this until I just replayed your solution.

This could be used as the perfect example of why you should plan your first pair in inspection but I’ve never seen it mentioned anywhere.

It was a strange case because the orange green pair is together at the start, gets split up but then ends up together again in the most unlikely manner (if it was accidental)

And yet it would have been relatively easy to track I guess.

I’m going to really try to plan first pair for every solve in future. Despite starting yesterday with this intention, I reverted to type and just planned cross for most solves.

More discipline needed... this example has inspired me.

I hope.


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## Tom Joad (May 28, 2019)

pglewis said:


> Aaaand just had a near miss with a full-step 14.36, friendly cross and F2L. Why'd it have to be an F-Perm?!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Sorry replied to wrong person, see my post above


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## pglewis (May 28, 2019)

Tom Joad said:


> Have you had a look back at that solve?
> 
> A four move xcross which you then broke up (because you didn’t know it was solved?)
> 
> ...



First off: I was really happy I could reconstruct it at all, scrambling + my weird dyslexia means a lot of mis-scrambles unless I'm slow and pay really close attention. 

It's double-ly embarrassing because I didn't notice the xcross during the solve nor while doing the reconstruction. Even if I had seen the pair it's likely I wouldn't have changed the solve anyway. I don't immediately see how to preserve it while solving the cross and my past experience is that trying to preserve a pair during cross costs me more time than ignoring it. So I tend to have blinders on for anything but my cross edges, saw a fairly easy 4-move cross here, and likely took off after 4-5 seconds of inspection (the orange/green pair at the end was unplanned luck). 

Maybe I need a block-building crash course or something to develop an intuition for preserving pairs during cross, I'll gladly bookmark any good resources anyone has on the topic. As it stands I can't even X-Cross when given one unless it's super easy and obvious.


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## Sergey (May 28, 2019)

pglewis said:


> Aaaand just had a near miss with a full-step 14.36, friendly cross and F2L. Why'd it have to be an F-Perm?!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



That's 3rd and 4th pairs solution is just incredible. My current skill is to solve only pair by pair


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## pglewis (May 28, 2019)

Sergey said:


> That's 3rd and 4th pairs solution is just incredible. My current skill is to solve only pair by pair



Mostly pure luck. I rotated for the insert of the red/green pair knowing new information would be coming out of that back slot, so after the rotation I peeked at that corner coming out. I saw it indeed made the final pair for me, and with orange on top that meant I was already oriented for the last pair insert as well. I was a little proud to have the presence of mind to execute the L2 on the 3rd pair insert but I can't take any credit for the two gift pairs, themselves lol.


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## pglewis (May 28, 2019)

On the x-cross topic again... I don't have the tools to see how to preserve the made pair easily, much less in 4 moves. I'm sure I'll head-desk as soon as someone shows me the trick, the scramble again: B' D2 L2 F' D2 L2 U2 F2 R2 B D' L2 B U R F L2 U' L U2


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## Mike Hughey (May 28, 2019)

I just actually looked at your solve. If you hadn't gone for OCLL but just used the OLL I use, you would have finished with:
U R' F' L F R F' L' F // AUF OLL
U2 T perm
Which I assume would have been a good bit faster.


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## pglewis (May 28, 2019)

Mike Hughey said:


> I just actually looked at your solve. If you hadn't gone for OCLL but just used the OLL I use, you would have finished with:
> U R' F' L F R F' L' F // AUF OLL
> U2 T perm
> Which I assume would have been a good bit faster.



Just in case there's confusion with COLL here: OCLL are just the seven OLLs with edges already oriented, so that's my normal OLL alg for that case and one of the oldest ones in my toolbelt since OCLLs were the first ones I learned (and it's a fairly fast one for me, basically being sexy-sledge but with a couple wide moves).

T-Perm would have definitely been preferable, regardless .


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## Mike Hughey (May 28, 2019)

Wide moves generally create a mental block for me, so I use them for very few algs. I do use some, but they're often the ones I can't remember. :-( So that's why I learned this one instead.

I just did 3x3x3 for the weekly competition this week and got a 19.14 average. My average in the weekly competition for the past 10 weeks or so has been hovering right around 20 seconds. Which is wild, because I've never been globally sub-20, and I haven't explicitly practiced 3x3x3 in ages. Last time I made a conscious effort to practice it, it seemed like my average barely moved, and after a few weeks of stopping practicing, it got much worse. But now all of a sudden it seems like it might be better than it's ever been.

I'm definitely not planning on practicing 3x3x3 any time soon! 

I guess a possibility is that I might be improving by doing all 3 attempts of fewest moves every week. I do wonder if that's what's making the difference - I think it really can help regular 3x3x3 solving.


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## pglewis (May 28, 2019)

Mike Hughey said:


> [...] I guess a possibility is that I might be improving by doing all 3 attempts of fewest moves every week. I do wonder if that's what's making the difference - I think it really can help regular 3x3x3 solving.



I swear this hobby can lead a fella into being as superstitious as baseball players, who knows 

My current thing is it seems like I hit my zone when I'm listening to a Podcast or watching something streaming that doesn't require a whole lot of direct viewing attention, the supposition being that occupying the thinking part of my brain keeps me from over-thinking; don't think, just solve. But it's also how I do the bulk of my spam practice, so of course that situation has statistics on it's side.


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## SpartanSailor (May 29, 2019)

Mike Hughey said:


> *Nobody does the F perm*
> List of people who do the F perm


Lol


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## Tom Joad (May 29, 2019)

pglewis said:


> On the x-cross topic again... I don't have the tools to see how to preserve the made pair easily, much less in 4 moves. I'm sure I'll head-desk as soon as someone shows me the trick, the scramble again: B' D2 L2 F' D2 L2 U2 F2 R2 B D' L2 B U R F L2 U' L U2



Having reread my post, I perhaps did not express myself very clearly.

I didn’t mean you should do anything differently when making the cross.

But have you noticed that the four moves you did to make the cross also solved the green orange pair in the back?

You did a four move xcross!

However, you seemed unaware of this because you then proceeded to remove said pair, when solving what you considered to be your first pair.

My further musings are only that it if you go back and have a look from the start it is interesting to see the manner in which the green orange pair splits up then rejoins as you made your first four moves.

What I learnt was that it’s not so much about thinking about how to “preserve” the pair (for it wasn’t preserved, it split up then joined together again) but...

If you tracked the pair in your mind (edge and corner independently) as you planned your cross, you would have been aware that an xcross would form.

All the best YouTube teachers recommend infinite inspection time to plan first pair in inspection until you can get this down to 15 secs. This area is my biggest weakness so I’m trying to focus on it right now...

I’m not sure I have the discipline to do this... anyway, happy cubing


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## Sergey (May 29, 2019)

pglewis said:


> On the x-cross topic again... I don't have the tools to see how to preserve the made pair easily, much less in 4 moves. I'm sure I'll head-desk as soon as someone shows me the trick, the scramble again: B' D2 L2 F' D2 L2 U2 F2 R2 B D' L2 B U R F L2 U' L U2


You're already did it.

z2 y' // Inspection
R' F B' D // Cross - XCross really, orange-green pair is already in RB slot.



UPD. May be this is exotic and hard to imagine during inspection, but xxcross is possible too (with keyhole):

z2 y'
R' F B'
L U' L' D' F R' F' R D2


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## pglewis (May 29, 2019)

Tom Joad said:


> But have you noticed that the four moves you did to make the cross also solved the green orange pair in the back?





Sergey said:


> You're already did it.



Wow. Just... wow. It's unlikely I've ever felt this dense in my life lol


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## pglewis (May 29, 2019)

And what a bizarre solve for my second fastest solve ever. 4-move xcross that I don't see and immediately clobber and a green/orange pair that keeps magically connecting.


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## Sergey (May 29, 2019)

pglewis said:


> And what a bizarre solve for my second fastest solve ever. 4-move xcross that I don't see and immediately clobber and a green/orange pair that keeps magically connecting.


Some sort of karma... that solve was supposed to be fast in anyway.


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## Tom Joad (May 29, 2019)

pglewis said:


> And what a bizarre solve for my second fastest solve ever. 4-move xcross that I don't see and immediately clobber and a green/orange pair that keeps magically connecting.



Haha, indeed.


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## Sergey (May 30, 2019)

Could you please clarify to me what English-speaking cubers implies by term 'parity'? Equality or the parity from the mathematical point of view (meaning odd or even numbers)? Thanks.


----------



## xyzzy (May 30, 2019)

Sergey said:


> Could you please clarify to me what English-speaking cubers implies by term 'parity'? Equality or the parity from the mathematical point of view (meaning odd or even numbers)? Thanks.


The mathematics one, but we also use the word "parity" as a short-hand for referring to any situation with odd parity (e.g. when there is an odd permutation of pieces, or when there is an odd number of flipped pieces).

(Some people also use "parity" to refer to any situation with a non-obvious solution, regardless of whether it relates to evenness/oddness, which infuriates me a lot.)


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## DLeiber (May 31, 2019)

Logiqx said:


> Rankings for 40+, 50+, 60+, 70+ and 80+ are now available!
> 
> The new reports might be short but they are still pretty interesting imho.



Being a new member here and among the oldest (it seems, at 64), I found this info indeed interesting. Are seniors allowed to compete at any WCA competition or are there only special ones with certain event groups for us oldsters?


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## One Wheel (May 31, 2019)

DLeiber said:


> Being a new member here and among the oldest (it seems, at 64), I found this info indeed interesting. Are seniors allowed to compete at any WCA competition or are there only special ones with certain event groups for us oldsters?


WCA explicitly allows anyone (with the exception of people who have been banned, presumably for cheating) to compete at any competition. They do keep record of the birthdates of competitors, but that information is not publicly available, and as far as I know it is not currently used.


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## DLeiber (May 31, 2019)

One Wheel said:


> WCA explicitly allows anyone (with the exception of people who have been banned, presumably for cheating) to compete at any competition. They do keep record of the birthdates of competitors, but that information is not publicly available, and as far as I know it is not currently used.


Thank you. So there aren't specifically events for the older crowd, it's just that competitors can be sorted into age groups by certain insiders because they know all the birthdates, I guess.


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## One Wheel (May 31, 2019)

DLeiber said:


> Thank you. So there aren't specifically events for the older crowd, it's just that competitors can be sorted into age groups by certain insiders because they know all the birthdates, I guess.



In theory, yes. In practice when I have organized competitions I could see the birthdates of everyone who registered, but I didn’t use them for anything. Groups were sorted according to previous official times, with the goal of each group finishing around the same time so that the next group could get underway. On second thought I may have moved a couple of people on the basis of age, just so all the older cubers wouldn’t all be in the same group, and could potentially help scramble and judge.


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## Mike Hughey (May 31, 2019)

The way the age group sorting has been done has been voluntary. The WCA treats birthdate information as confidential information and does not display it on the official website. But a number of us "oldies" have revealed our ages intentionally to allow the lists to be made. The lists are partial, but in some cases surprisingly close to complete for a voluntary opt-in.


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## Logiqx (Jun 1, 2019)

DLeiber said:


> Thank you. So there aren't specifically events for the older crowd, it's just that competitors can be sorted into age groups by certain insiders because they know all the birthdates, I guess.



Just for clarity, I don't have insider access to DOB information. The WCA implemented a regulation in 2012 which prohibits them sharing it without consent.

2012


> 2d) All information (except: name, country, date of birth, gender, selected events and competition results) must be used for the competition only, and may only be given to other organisations/persons after permission from the competitor. A competitor's date of birth is considered confidential information, and must never be shared with other parties without prior consent of the competitor or legal guardian.



2013 onwards


> 2d) A competitor's name, country, gender, and competition results are considered public information. All other personal information is considered confidential, and must not be disclosed to outside organisations/persons without the consent of the competitor.




To get the senior rankings to where they are now has taken a number of years collecting DOB information from people on this forum and Facebook.


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## DLeiber (Jun 1, 2019)

Mike Hughey said:


> The way the age group sorting has been done has been voluntary. The WCA treats birthdate information as confidential information and does not display it on the official website. But a number of us "oldies" have revealed our ages intentionally to allow the lists to be made. The lists are partial, but in some cases surprisingly close to complete for a voluntary opt-in.


Thanks for the additional background info.


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## DLeiber (Jun 1, 2019)

Logiqx said:


> Just for clarity, I don't have insider access to DOB information. The WCA implemented a regulation in 2012 which prohibits them sharing it without consent.
> 
> 2012
> 
> ...


Thanks for the extra info as well as all the work put in through the years to compile the lists.


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## Logiqx (Jun 1, 2019)

FYI - I've added links to Speedsolving profiles from the competitor lists:

https://logiqx.github.io/wca-ipy/

Is there anybody on this thread who has either been missed or due to turn 40 in the near future?

I can add people to the list early and the code will start to include their results once they turn 40.


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## openseas (Jun 2, 2019)

Less than 12 hours after an international flight (about 20 hrs long), I had no expectations what so ever when I opened the cube cover for my first attempt for 4BLD. The scramble was easy (17 t-center target or so) - but since it's been a while last time I tried 4BLD, didn't rush and reviewed couple of more times. When I thought I finished, turned out - didn't do the parity for corner. I usually swap UL-UB for 3BLD so - parity is not something I'm used to do. I should have done the same thing but apparently forgot. But other than that, everything else was ok with 9 min flat. Next scramble, I tried to do UL/UB swap for 4BLD (lessons learned!) but somehow I kept making errors, when finished wing memo, already clocked 4 min. It was cumulative time limit for both 4BLD and 5BLD, so, I stopped to save energy and time. 3rd scramble was normal and tried UL-UB swap again: this time, didn't make error, not so great time but managed to solve it.

So, I felt, execution was kind of ok, probably memo is rusty. I moved to 5BLD, did all I missed in the previous 4BLD, UL-UB Swap, couple of reviews to make sure not to suffer from recalling issue - made it with 21:37. 1min37s short to be qualified for US Nats. sigh... But I know my success rate, first attempt success was more than enough for a day. So, DNS'd the rest two.

Next up, MBLD. I needed 7 points to be qualified. I had many 10~11 cube attempts last year but all failed, not due to the time but due to execution and recalling error. Since I felt ok with my execution, I went with 12. Finished memo with triple review about 42min. Started execution, finished ~57min. 1 mixed, 3 cubes with 1 corner twist, 8 out of 12. Another sigh...

3BLD 1st round. Overall attempt felt a little bit slow and even not sure my recall was correct but ended up with first ever mo3. Mo3 1:07 is close to my global, so no complaints about the time but didn't have single sub 1, slight disappointment. When I posted on FB, @Logiqx pointed out that that mo3 is #4 in the senior ranking which means it's kinda "NAR" for Senior 

3BLD final was just so so, only 1 success. The 2nd attempt, one corner pair execution was wrong, 3rd missed one flip. But at least it was not a triple DNF.

Overall, 14 cubes solved in a day (including MBLD) which is my PB. Didn't have any triple DNF, it was a PB, too.

Plus, Tim wasn't able to compete today and Jeff missed big BLD due to his SAT test, couple of other fast guys DNF'd all attempts which made me Southern Champions for 4BLD and 5BLD  ( Stanley is from another region - so doens't count as a Champion). So, after all, one Senior NAR, two Championship title, quite fruitful day


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## mark49152 (Jun 2, 2019)

@openseas - nice to read a thorough report, and congrats on the results!

Regarding UB-UL swap for BigBLD, I considered this and decided not to do it, for now. 

For 3BLD, after various discussions I was convinced it's probably worth it (at our level). I started doing it earlier this year, and I don't think it has any adverse impact on my times or accuracy, now. 

For BigBLD, I think not (at our level). I timed the cost of fixing parity for both events, and for me it's 3.4 secs 4BLD and 7.5 secs 5BLD. That's much less significant as a proportion of solve time, compared to 3BLD, at the 5/12 mins I average today. Also, there is almost certainly a cost to the extra thinking to swap wings, until years of practice make it unthinking, and there will always be an additional risk of errors through making the solving process slightly more complex. 

My plan is to forget about the swap for now, until such time as I'm fast enough at 5BLD that it looks like the easiest way to get that 7.5 second improvement, and my accuracy is good enough that I can afford a temporary hit. When I switch for 5BLD I'll do it for 4bld too, for consistency.


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## h2f (Jun 2, 2019)

I tried 5bld on official competition. It ended with 2 DNFs on very safe attempts. Instead I did 16.09 ao5 in 3x3x3 with 2 PLL skips.


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## Logiqx (Jun 2, 2019)

h2f said:


> I tried 5bld on official competition. It ended with 2 DNFs on very safe attempts. Instead I did 16.09 ao5 in 3x3x3 with 2 PLL skips.



Nice. I had 2 PLL skips in one round during one of my first competitions.

I did about 100 solves last year (3x3x3, 4x4x4, OH) and didn't have a single skip. haha


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## mark49152 (Jun 2, 2019)

h2f said:


> I tried 5bld on official competition. It ended with 2 DNFs on very safe attempts.


That's the trouble with 5BLD. It's frustrating.

There is no UK NR for 5BLD mean - maybe I should try for it


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## h2f (Jun 2, 2019)

mark49152 said:


> That's the trouble with 5BLD. It's frustrating.
> 
> There is no UK NR for 5BLD mean - maybe I should try for it



Yes you should. I think Im gonna back to pracitce it. Maybe next time.


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## pglewis (Jun 2, 2019)

Oldies are representin' this weekend, congrats @openseas and @h2f! 

Some regression and frustration on 3x3 for me but a little better consistency is slowly coming around. After a couple lousy practice sessions Friday I dropped my Ao12 by over a half second and my Ao50 by a couple hundredths yesterday. The Ao50 should have been quite a bit better but 7 of the last 10 solves were sup 25, if I were stubborn I'm sure I could get it down in the 22s on a good day. The bell curve is edging down towards :20 finally with a 2nd one centered around :26, primarily due to a variety of mis-solved cross, mis-solved pairs, clobbering solved pairs, and LL execution errors. A lot of the mistakes are growing pains due to looking ahead more and many of those were otherwise on pace to be decent solves, at least. 



3bld is really, truly back on the menu this coming week. It feels like the perfect time to just let 3x3 percolate with less focus and get my blind legs back.


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## AlphaCuber is awesome (Jun 2, 2019)

I think everyone who can get sub 20 5bld will be going for it at bso.


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## openseas (Jun 2, 2019)

mark49152 said:


> For BigBLD, I think not (at our level). I timed the cost of fixing parity for both events, and for me it's 3.4 secs 4BLD and 7.5 secs 5BLD. That's much less significant as a proportion of solve time, compared to 3BLD, at the 5/12 mins I average today. Also, there is almost certainly a cost to the extra thinking to swap wings, until years of practice make it unthinking, and there will always be an additional risk of errors through making the solving process slightly more complex.



The only reason I did UB/UL swap for big BLD was, because I forgot the parity alg :-(


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## pglewis (Jun 2, 2019)

pglewis said:


> [...] 3bld is really, truly back on the menu this coming week. It feels like the perfect time to just let 3x3 percolate with less focus and get my blind legs back.



And I totally forgot I've moved to a different apartment since I was last practicing blind so... hey... new rooms lol. 

With M2: any consensus on swapping I/S/C/W in memo vs. just remembering to swap during execution? I've always done the latter but I'm strongly considering swapping during memo.


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## mark49152 (Jun 2, 2019)

pglewis said:


> With M2: any consensus on swapping I/S/C/W in memo vs. just remembering to swap during execution? I've always done the latter but I'm strongly considering swapping during memo.


I don't know about consensus, but I can offer an opinion. I've always swapped during memo, for M2, and found it very convenient because that allows the use of consistent algorithms and tricks for adjacent targets regardless of whether they start on odd or even target. It means less thinking during execution.

Of course that becomes a disadvantage when switching to 3-style, because you want CL to be the inverse of LC not LW, etc. I was concerned that might present me a problem, but it didn't. When I switched to 3-style edges recently, I pretty much immediately got used to not swapping during memo, with few if any issues.


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## openseas (Jun 3, 2019)

mark49152 said:


> I don't know about consensus, but I can offer an opinion. I've always swapped during memo, for M2, and found it very convenient because that allows the use of consistent algorithms and tricks for adjacent targets regardless of whether they start on odd or even target. It means less thinking during execution.
> 
> Of course that becomes a disadvantage when switching to 3-style, because you want CL to be the inverse of LC not LW, etc. I was concerned that might present me a problem, but it didn't. When I switched to 3-style edges recently, I pretty much immediately got used to not swapping during memo, with few if any issues.



Me, too. Swapping during memo is easier. You just need couple of practice to get use to it.


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## h2f (Jun 3, 2019)

I do corners first but if I did edges first I would swap too.


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## AbsoRuud (Jun 3, 2019)

Got another competition coming this month on the 29th. I wonder if Ron will sit me at the old people's table again this time around. 

I'll be doing 2x2x2, 3x3x3, 4x4x4 and Skewb. The only two other events are Square-1 (evil) and Megaminx (not interested) so I won't be able to try and beat my Clock or Pyra PRs. Don't much care about Pyra though, but it's a shame about Clock. 

I've barely practiced 4x4x4 and Skewb, so I don't think I'll do well in those, but my 2x2x2 and 3x3x3 have improved a lot. I have good hopes beating my PR single and average at this comp in those two events.

I'm strongly debating getting the Mei Long 4 and Mei Long 5 though. I hope www.cubediction.nl will have them in stock at this comp, otherwise I'll be ordering them online asap. Anything is better than the WuQue.


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## Mike Hughey (Jun 3, 2019)

I've seen so much hate dished on the WuQue lately. I still love my theCubicle WuQue M; I really don't understand why people hate the WuQue so much. Maybe theCubicle treatment makes all the difference? Or I have a really bad cube but just think it's great because I don't know better?


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## AbsoRuud (Jun 3, 2019)

Mike Hughey said:


> I've seen so much hate dished on the WuQue lately. I still love my theCubicle WuQue M; I really don't understand why people hate the WuQue so much. Maybe theCubicle treatment makes all the difference? Or I have a really bad cube but just think it's great because I don't know better?



I don't like mine because it barely cornercuts, even if I lube it a whole bunch, it stays slow and stiff. It might just be me and it might be my lack of setup skills, but I just can't seem to find my groove with this cube. When I switch from example my MGC 2x2x2 or my Wei Long 3, to my WuQue, it's like turning a frozen cube under a thick layer of mud. Each time I use it, I have to lube it and break it in. It's not very motivating to solve on. So I'm gonna get the Mei Long 4.

Mind you, mine is the stock WuQue, without magnets and without pro setup.


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## pglewis (Jun 3, 2019)

The very first solve I tried reversing targets in memo reminded me why I probably didn't do it before: it turns my brain inside-out in review. Granted, I should be ditching review for 3bld once I'm back in shape but I can't get away from it for mbld. I might give it a shot regardless, I know it's just a matter of getting used to it like everything else. 

Remedial M2/OP wasn't as bad as anticipated. I'm back to making slow, careful, untimed attempts and cheating by consulting my image list heavily during memo with a good success rate.


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## xyzzy (Jun 3, 2019)

Mike Hughey said:


> I've seen so much hate dished on the WuQue lately. I still love my theCubicle WuQue M; I really don't understand why people hate the WuQue so much. Maybe theCubicle treatment makes all the difference? Or I have a really bad cube but just think it's great because I don't know better?





AbsoRuud said:


> I don't like mine because it barely cornercuts, even if I lube it a whole bunch, it stays slow and stiff. It might just be me and it might be my lack of setup skills, but I just can't seem to find my groove with this cube. When I switch from example my MGC 2x2x2 or my Wei Long 3, to my WuQue, it's like turning a frozen cube under a thick layer of mud. Each time I use it, I have to lube it and break it in. It's not very motivating to solve on. So I'm gonna get the Mei Long 4.
> 
> Mind you, mine is the stock WuQue, without magnets and without pro setup.


There are about thrice as many moving parts when you make a turn on a 4×4×4 compared to a 3×3×3, so it's simply not going to turn as well as smaller cubes. (It gets worse on 6×6×6 and 7×7×7, really.)

My experience with a stock Wuque (no magnets etc.) was similar, in that it generally just feels weird for the first few solves of a session and requires a lot of constant relubing. It gets much better with magnets _and_ a spring swap/mod/compression; weaker springs make it faster but less stable, and the magnets make up for that lost stability. I'm still not entirely pleased with my own magnetised Wuque, but I don't hate it enough that I'd drop fifty bucks on an Aosu GTS2M. (I also like my Wuque more than the Cubicle Wuque M I bought before, so there's that.)

Honestly, I think it's a safe bet that the Meilong 4 will be even worse than the Wuque. Moyu's Cubing Classroom series generally had good cubes (MF3RS and its successors), but aside from the MF7S, literally none of their budget big cubes have been well-received; I doubt the Meilong series will buck that trend. The YJ Yusu v2 M will probably be a better option.


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## h2f (Jun 3, 2019)

My pb ao5:


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## AbsoRuud (Jun 4, 2019)

xyzzy said:


> There are about thrice as many moving parts when you make a turn on a 4×4×4 compared to a 3×3×3, so it's simply not going to turn as well as smaller cubes. (It gets worse on 6×6×6 and 7×7×7, really.)
> 
> My experience with a stock Wuque (no magnets etc.) was similar, in that it generally just feels weird for the first few solves of a session and requires a lot of constant relubing. It gets much better with magnets _and_ a spring swap/mod/compression; weaker springs make it faster but less stable, and the magnets make up for that lost stability. I'm still not entirely pleased with my own magnetised Wuque, but I don't hate it enough that I'd drop fifty bucks on an Aosu GTS2M. (I also like my Wuque more than the Cubicle Wuque M I bought before, so there's that.)
> 
> Honestly, I think it's a safe bet that the Meilong 4 will be even worse than the Wuque. Moyu's Cubing Classroom series generally had good cubes (MF3RS and its successors), but aside from the MF7S, literally none of their budget big cubes have been well-received; I doubt the Meilong series will buck that trend. The YJ Yusu v2 M will probably be a better option.



I watched a video from Waffojim that says the Meilong 4 turns as well as the 3. So I have good hopes.  Besides it's only 6 bucks, so what can go wrong there?


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## Sergey (Jun 4, 2019)

AbsoRuud said:


> I watched a video from Waffojim that says the Meilong 4 turns as well as the 3. So I have good hopes.  Besides it's only 6 bucks, so what can go wrong there?


My experience says - in general do not buy cheap puzzles if you're want to get pleasure from the solving. But of cause there are an exceptions. E.g. WuQue Mini M is not cheap, but it is not as good out of the box and only after springs compression mod it become more or less acceptable. If you want to get 4x4 with the feeling closer to 3x3 in terms of turning - AoSu GTS2M is your choice, IMO. But I have not come across yet with the 4x4 with the same or better non crunchy, smooth turning (in contrast of feeling different moving parts during turn) and flatness feeling like the old regular WuQue.


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## One Wheel (Jun 5, 2019)

I’m working on 4BLD (again), and dealing with memorizing longer strings than I can’t seem to make work for 3BLD. I think I’ve got a phrase that works for me for this one, but it’s nice to see other ideas. What would you guys memorize for

UR IS FD MK GP TC HX OB LW?


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## Mike Hughey (Jun 5, 2019)

One Wheel said:


> UR IS FD MK GP TC HX OB LW?


I normally memorize 3 pairs per location, so I'd break this up in 3 parts:
an URn is held by the goddess ISis, holding bountiful FooD
MarK (an old roommate of mine) fills a GaP in the wall with a huge TiCk
a HeXagonal OBoe has been shoved (probably mouthpiece first) into the LaWn

I know other people would possibly be going for audio for a string this length, for some types of pieces at least (the usual thing I think now is to do 4x4x4 wings with audio), but I still have incredible trouble memorizing just 3x3x3 edges in audio - wings are way beyond my capability with audio. Other than audio, I try to make my memorization as visual (with images) as I can - memory just doesn't stick very well for me otherwise.

I guess I should mention that, if you notice, all my words here are one or two syllables. Almost all of my images now are one or two syllables - one syllable if possible - so I can "say" them quickly. It really made a difference in my times when I made that change. When I review, I'd really say under my breath:
Urn Isis Food
Mark Gap Tick
Hex Oboe Lawn
Really fast that way.


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## pglewis (Jun 5, 2019)

One Wheel said:


> I’m working on 4BLD (again), and dealing with memorizing longer strings than I can’t seem to make work for 3BLD. I think I’ve got a phrase that works for me for this one, but it’s nice to see other ideas. What would you guys memorize for
> 
> UR IS FD MK GP TC HX OB LW?



This is probably how I'd memo it: 

[uncle rico] on [ice skates] at the [fire dept] with a [monkey]
[gomer pyle] on a [tennis court] with a [hexed] [oboe] and a [little wagon]


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## One Wheel (Jun 5, 2019)

Mike Hughey said:


> I normally memorize 3 pairs per location, so I'd break this up in 3 parts:
> an URn is held by the goddess ISis, holding bountiful FooD
> MarK (an old roommate of mine) fills a GaP in the wall with a huge TiCk
> a HeXagonal OBoe has been shoved (probably mouthpiece first) into the LaWn
> ...



Do you have some words that you just never use? I would be concerned by “held,” “goddess,” “fills,” and “shoved.”

I had Uncle Rambo IS FeD MarK’s Grand Prize ThunderClap, a HeX is OutBound LeftWard. I think I prefer Uncle Rambo IS FeD MarK’s Grand Prize ThunderClap and a HeXagonal OBoe on the LaWn. Not sure of the wisdom of using “is,” though.


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## openseas (Jun 5, 2019)

One Wheel said:


> UR IS FD MK GP TC HX OB LW?



I would go audio, too but...

URine IShaan at FooD MarKet with GaP (hat) eating TaCo HauX (drinking) OB (beer brand in Korea) with Law (my colleague).

Like Mike, all pairs are one word for me.


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## Mike Hughey (Jun 5, 2019)

One Wheel said:


> Do you have some words that you just never use? I would be concerned by “held,” “goddess,” “fills,” and “shoved.”


I have a pre-memorized list of images. In some cases, I have multiple images, but I make it a point to have not very many images that can be confused with each other. Since I do post-mortems on my solves, I immediately notice when I confuse one image with another, and if that seems to be a problem with two images that are too much alike, I will change one of them. It took a while, but I've gotten a list now which is pretty close to completely independent images.

Held, shoved, fills are all just connecting words that don't mean anything - I don't really memorize them. They just show how my images are related to each other. As for goddess, I made it a point that the only goddess I have in my memorization list is Isis, so no problem there.


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## MarcelP (Jun 5, 2019)

h2f said:


> My pb ao5:


Awesome! Btw, you are a pure white solver huh? That first scramble had a 3/4 yellow cross  I do not understand how your times are so fast while I see so many pauses. That means it should be no problem for you gain a few more seconds in speed. Nice man!


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## mark49152 (Jun 5, 2019)

One Wheel said:


> UR IS FD MK GP TC HX OB LW?


Urchin on ice skates gives food to Mike's gimp. Top Cat gives hexagon to oblong lawyer.

Pretty silly and meaningless stuff really. The trick is to make it look vivid or comical to aid recall.


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## openseas (Jun 5, 2019)

Not much progress in terms of single PB for 3BLD.

Trying to drill/improve edge comms but still made less than 40% progress so far. 

Generated By csTimer on 2019-06-05
single: 45.27

Time List:
1. 45.27=18.33+26.93 L2 R F2 D B2 F2 L2 U L2 U R2 B2 R' U2 B R2 F2 U' B2 L Rw Uw'


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## One Wheel (Jun 5, 2019)

Just “finished” my first 4BLD solve, sort of. Centers were good, saw that but didn’t check my wing memo before executing. I’m pretty sure wings would have been good too if I hadn’t forgotten to undo an l2 setup. I memorized two targets on the same piece for corners, probably could have figured that out without peeking but we’ll never know. A day and a half to trace and memo, it can only get faster from here. 

Any good suggestions for XK? I have eXtriCAte, and just thought of SHeiK.


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## openseas (Jun 5, 2019)

One Wheel said:


> Just “finished” my first 4BLD solve, sort of. Centers were good, saw that but didn’t check my wing memo before executing. I’m pretty sure wings would have been good too if I hadn’t forgotten to undo an l2 setup. I memorized two targets on the same piece for corners, probably could have figured that out without peeking but we’ll never know. A day and a half to trace and memo, it can only get faster from here.
> 
> Any good suggestions for XK? I have eXtriCAte, and just thought of SHeiK.



Congrats! You're half way there 

I don't use X, X & Zs are not in my target letters but "Shake" and imagining shaking hands would work?


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## One Wheel (Jun 5, 2019)

openseas said:


> Congrats! You're half way there
> 
> I don't use X, X & Zs are not in my target letters but "Shake" and imagining shaking hands would work?


So maybe YucK, YanK, YuKon, or YellowKnife?


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## openseas (Jun 5, 2019)

One Wheel said:


> So maybe YucK, YanK, YuKon, or YellowKnife?



Yankees?

edit: I use Yankees for images but yuck for audio


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## One Wheel (Jun 5, 2019)

openseas said:


> Yankees?
> 
> edit: I use Yankees for images but yuck for audio


YanK works as either noun or verb.


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## pglewis (Jun 5, 2019)

One Wheel said:


> Any good suggestions for XK? I have eXtriCAte, and just thought of SHeiK.



For the majority that start with X and Q I use excited or quiet animals. XK is excited kangaroo.


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## mark49152 (Jun 5, 2019)

pglewis said:


> For the majority that start with X and Q I use excited or quiet animals. XK is excited kangaroo.


I'm similar. XK is dead koala


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## h2f (Jun 5, 2019)

MarcelP said:


> Awesome! Btw, you are a pure white solver huh? That first scramble had a 3/4 yellow cross  I do not understand how your times are so fast while I see so many pauses. That means it should be no problem for you gain a few more seconds in speed. Nice man!



I do yellow at home. I've seen that cross on yellow but I thought I'm gonna screw it due to lack of practice - no solves in a last 2 weeks, only blinds. So I did white. And yes - during edition I've seen it so many pauses too. Looks like I need lookahead practice a lot.


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## One Wheel (Jun 5, 2019)

Just finished my first full 4BLD attempt without peeking: 56 minutes: 15 centers, 12 wings, and 4 corners solved.


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## pglewis (Jun 5, 2019)

MarcelP said:


> I do not understand how your times are so fast while I see so many pauses.



He makes it look so easy in those solves, I swear


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## Oldmancfop (Jun 6, 2019)

Thought I would give the stickerless Teng Yun a go based on a couple of posts on here. My main has been the GTS3M for a few months and when I first tried the Teng Yun I thought 'Nasty, doesn't feel like a magnetic cube at all!'. After using the Teng Yun for a few hours I could see the magnets working more than feel them. I've been using it for about 3 weeks now and have grown to really like it, it has a soft/waxy, quiet, effortless feel, the GTS now feels heavy and sluglish by comparison. Now I just need to get as good as my cube!


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## Oldmancfop (Jun 7, 2019)

One negative I have with my Teng Yun and the same with the GTS3 is the glossy surfaces, if my hands get a bit clammy my fingers stick to the cube. I was considering rubbing down faces with some very fine sandpaper to hopefully give a frosted surface. Don't suppose anyone has tried this?


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## pglewis (Jun 7, 2019)

Yeah, after using the TengYun for months the stock GTS3M magnets feel comically strong by comparison. No serious grip issues for me with it. The weaknesses for me with TengYun are it's really easy to make unintended turns if you're not careful and some algs with wide layer turns fight me, occasionally. I'm not sure it's any worse about wide turns than the GTS2-M, my previous main, I think my turning speed is getting faster and my technique hasn't caught up yet.


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## Tom Joad (Jun 7, 2019)

Just done the same, four days in with my Teng Yun, after 18 months GTS2 cubing.

I think it will be good for me, seems better for the slow, smooth, pauseless solves I am aiming for.

Not so sure I can pull off my pll algs as quickly but maybe I overlubed it a bit.


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## Tom Joad (Jun 8, 2019)

12.12 PB 

‘Twas a pll skip but I was delighted all the same

Teng Yun


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## pglewis (Jun 8, 2019)

3x3: My potential seems to have improved about a second. Where I was getting 2 or 3 full step 17s a day on my best solves, now it's full step 16s. I also landed a full step 14.9 a couple days ago, 6-move T-OLL and U-Perm which is probably the best possible two look LL for me. I'm starting to shrug at anything over 18 when I'm in a groove even though I'm still good for following up my sub 20s with a couple mid 20s. I think most of the improvement is lookahead along with a little bit of my ongoing F2L refinement coming together. I still haven't returned to unlimited inspection and first pair prediction but I have made one minor change at the start of my solves the past few weeks. Watching Feliks's recent WR average he consistently sits on the armed timer for a few seconds, visualizing the physical starting moves. Such a seemingly tiny little thing. 

3bld: Thankfully I didn't lose much on execution. My first couple sighted attempts were rather hilarious but after 3 or 4 of those all my setups were back like riding a bike. I haven't re-incorporated any of the advanced M slice tricks yet but I have all my notes. First day back I got to better than 50% on slow, careful, untimed solves that were probably in the 8-10 min range. Second day I went for a timed solve to see where I'm sitting and got a 5:09 success. Execution split was close to where I was before the hiatus and I made a tracing mistake I had to track down in memo, so I'm not terribly far off where I was. Pushing tracing and memo really hard is the prescription for the next week.


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## Tom Joad (Jun 8, 2019)

pglewis said:


> 3x3: My potential seems to have improved about a second. Where I was getting 2 or 3 full step 17s a day on my best solves, now it's full step 16s. I also landed a full step 14.9 a couple days ago, 6-move T-OLL and U-Perm which is probably the best possible two look LL for me. I'm starting to shrug at anything over 18 when I'm in a groove even though I'm still good for following up my sub 20s with a couple mid 20s. I think most of the improvement is lookahead along with a little bit of my ongoing F2L refinement coming together. I still haven't returned to unlimited inspection and first pair prediction but I have made one minor change at the start of my solves the past few weeks. Watching Feliks's recent WR average he consistently sits on the armed timer for a few seconds, visualizing the physical starting moves. Such a seemingly tiny little thing.
> 
> 3bld: Thankfully I didn't lose much on execution. My first couple sighted attempts were rather hilarious but after 3 or 4 of those all my setups were back like riding a bike. I haven't re-incorporated any of the advanced M slice tricks yet but I have all my notes. First day back I got to better than 50% on slow, careful, untimed solves that were probably in the 8-10 min range. Second day I went for a timed solve to see where I'm sitting and got a 5:09 success. Execution split was close to where I was before the hiatus and I made a tracing mistake I had to track down in memo, so I'm not terribly far off where I was. Pushing tracing and memo really hard is the prescription for the next week.



Good point about Feliks, I’ll try focusing on that myself.

Thanks for the Teng Yun recommendation. I really like it.

I know what you mean about the just shrugging at average solves. I think i’m Just two seconds ahead of you there. Anything over 16 and I’m unimpressed but any “15er” or less makes me feel contented.

Planning the first pair in inspection: I think I’ve stumbled upon a compromise. I generally don’t do this but I do when it “looks easy”. However, every now and then I do a session of about twenty where I always plan first pair (unlimited inspection) I think this is slowly increasing the percentage of solves where I see a “looks easy” first pair. Maybe I’ll reach a point where I see an easy first pair 30% or 40% of the time...

In particular I keep looking at the rU’r’ insert for a bad cross piece and looking at how it affects every cube piece (from all four angles). Still slow from some angles but this seems crucial to planning first pair because so many cross solutions include a bad cross piece like this. Will keep working on this.

Carry on


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## pglewis (Jun 8, 2019)

Tom Joad said:


> Good point about Feliks, I’ll try focusing on that myself.



Of course I was already _sort of_ concentrating on the first few moves but watching his Ao5 made me realize I don't hold for as long nor do I have that laser focus I see in him. It stems from the same laziness as good planning in inspection for me: I'm often doing the bulk of my practice in one big batch and start to skimp on individual solves with a "get through 'em" mindset. One of many bad habits to ditch now that fractions of a second really matter. 

Keep being my inspiration on deeper inspection . Even though I haven't done it much or in ages I still occasionally spot a corner I realize isn't going to move in the top layer, one small vestige from the time I did practice it.


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## h2f (Jun 9, 2019)

53.50 new oficial PB single in 3bld. And 3 points in mbld  I didnt practice mbld for a long time.


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## mark49152 (Jun 9, 2019)

h2f said:


> 53.50 new oficial PB single in 3bld. And 3 points in mbld  I didnt practice mbld for a long time.


Nice job, congrats Grzegorz!


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## Roman (Jun 9, 2019)

My profile picture was taken in like 2007. Should I change it?


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## mark49152 (Jun 9, 2019)

Roman said:


> My profile picture was taken in like 2007. Should I change it?


You are certainly older than in 2007, so welcome to the thread. 

Are you old enough to want a profile picture in which you look much younger?


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## h2f (Jun 9, 2019)

Roman said:


> My profile picture was taken in like 2007. Should I change it?



For sure.


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## Roman (Jun 9, 2019)

Ok here are what I have. Which one should I use?


Spoiler: images









View attachment IMG_1140.jpg


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## One Wheel (Jun 10, 2019)

Roman said:


> Ok here are what I have. Which one should I use?
> 
> 
> Spoiler: images
> ...


3 is good, but I really like the second one.


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## Tom Joad (Jun 10, 2019)

New PB single 11.27

After my 12.3/12.4 lasted for over a year, it was certainly due and switching to the Teng Yun seems to have given me a new motivation.

However, taking a full second off like that makes me think it will be at least another year before I ever solve a cube that fast again! Indeed, it may never happen. I wish I had it on video! Alas

It was a full solve, the f2l was easy, from what I remember there was at least one three move case and maybe two. I’ve finished f2l in about 8 seconds a few times before but always been stung by a bad oll pll combo at the end but this time I got sune then u perm with just an easy u’ auf which flowed really nicely.

I will now focus on beating my Ao5 PB which stands at 15.56. I guess the long term aim is to Ao100 sub-15 which now seems like a feasible two-year project.

Onwards and upwards


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## DLeiber (Jun 10, 2019)

pglewis said:


> ... and I made a tracing mistake I had to track down in memo, so I'm not terribly far off where I was. Pushing tracing and memo really hard is the prescription for the next week.



I'm brand new at 3BLD, so please forgive me if this is a stupid question, should be asked elsewhere, or has been asked a million times, but you said something that intrigues me. As I trace, I memorize, but it sounds maybe like you do them in two different steps. Do you trace all the pieces somehow just to get an idea of the progression, but then go back and come up with actual letter pair sounds/images and then memorize? I'm not sure I understand how you knew you made a tracing mistake and then tracked it down in memo.


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## mark49152 (Jun 10, 2019)

DLeiber said:


> I'm brand new at 3BLD, so please forgive me if this is a stupid question, should be asked elsewhere, or has been asked a million times, but you said something that intrigues me. As I trace, I memorize, but it sounds maybe like you do them in two different steps. Do you trace all the pieces somehow just to get an idea of the progression, but then go back and come up with actual letter pair sounds/images and then memorize? I'm not sure I understand how you knew you made a tracing mistake and then tracked it down in memo.


This is the right place .

Generally, we memo during trace - or at least translate the letters to images and try to remember them as we go, with perhaps a pause afterwards to focus purely on strengthening the memorization.

However, you can think of trace and memo as two separate components. Firstly, because mistakes can be clearly attributed to one or the other: encoding the wrong letters, versus encoding correctly but recalling them wrongly because the memo was too weak. Omissions are another common tracing error. Often, tracing errors become apparent before you finish memo, because something just won't add up (I think this is what Phil was referring to). Recall errors of course usually happen during execution and are fatal. It's also possible to trace correctly but encode wrongly, but that becomes much less common with experience. 

The second reason to view them as separate components is performance. Memorization does take time, to group images together and visualise. We can measure our performance on both trace and memo, and train them separately as needed (memo cost can be measured as total average 3BLD memo time minus average trace time). It's easy to practise tracing without memorizing, in order to become faster and more fluid at it, and it can be helpful to do that for long sessions without taxing the memory. It's possible to train memo independently by revising letter pair images or by training memory using other online memory sports tools, for example memorizing sequences of images against the clock.


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## pglewis (Jun 10, 2019)

DLeiber said:


> Do you trace all the pieces somehow just to get an idea of the progression, but then go back and come up with actual letter pair sounds/images and then memorize? I'm not sure I understand how you knew you made a tracing mistake and then tracked it down in memo.



I realized there was an error because I came up with an odd number of corners but an even number of edges. 

I do memorize as I trace but because my tracing is very slow in and of itself I plan to focus on just the mechanics of tracing for about a week.


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## DLeiber (Jun 10, 2019)

pglewis said:


> I realized there was an error because I came up with an odd number of corners but an even number of edges.
> 
> I do memorize as I trace but because my tracing is very slow in and of itself I plan to focus on just the mechanics of tracing for about a week.


Thanks for the explanation. My tracing is horribly slow; I should probably concentrate on it, too.


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## DLeiber (Jun 10, 2019)

Thanks, Mark. The tracing error of odd vs even corners/edges makes sense. I've encountered that, too. I think my biggest problem is tracing incorrectly. This will improve with experience, but some more focused practice on that wouldn't hurt.


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## pglewis (Jun 10, 2019)

DLeiber said:


> Thanks, Mark. The tracing error of odd vs even corners/edges makes sense. I've encountered that, too. I think my biggest problem is tracing incorrectly. This will improve with experience, but some more focused practice on that wouldn't hurt.



In my case I just forgot to shoot the final target when I was doing the corner trace but I had to go back and carefully retrace corners to find it. 

I did some timed tests to see how quickly I can trace-- just saying the Speffz letters out loud without memorizing-- and my initial benchmark is 50-60 seconds. I'd like to be memo'ing completely in 90 seconds max. I think I can cut my tracing time in half fairly quickly with dedicated practice. I think the top guys do full memo for 3bld in like 8-10 seconds, I figure I ought to be able to trace in 25 seconds lol.


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## pglewis (Jun 10, 2019)

Tom Joad said:


> However, taking a full second off like that makes me think it will be at least another year before I ever solve a cube that fast again! Indeed, it may never happen.



Outliers are weird and it's not a lot of data points, but your two fastest solves in the past week? I'm gonna at least call that "really promising".



Tom Joad said:


> I’ve finished f2l in about 8 seconds a few times before



Okay, I'm in no position to critique but I can't help myself here: _stop peeking at the timer_!  There'll be time enough for countin' when the dealin' is done.

Hats off though, you were long overdue, and good luck on the longer-term sub 15 goal.


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## mark49152 (Jun 10, 2019)

pglewis said:


> I did some timed tests to see how quickly I can trace-- just saying the Speffz letters out loud without memorizing-- and my initial benchmark is 50-60 seconds. I'd like to be memo'ing completely in 90 seconds max. I think I can cut my tracing time in half fairly quickly with dedicated practice. I think the top guys do full memo for 3bld in like 8-10 seconds, I figure I ought to be able to trace in 25 seconds lol.


Yeah that was what motivated me - when I realised that it took me several times as long to even trace the cube as others took to memorize it. I even tried tracing the same scramble over and over - so just physically looking at the stickers for a known trace. Even doing it over and over, I was slower than them. I can't even LOOK at the cube as fast as they can memo! That really made me feel old .

One tip that helped me: try a metronome. Set it to say 1.5 seconds, and try to move to the next sticker on every beat. It helps establish a smooth rhythm and break the habit of pausing. Ratchet up the beat whenever it starts to feel easy.


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## One Wheel (Jun 10, 2019)

I think I started memorizing this Saturday. I’m having no end of trouble tracing wings, but this feels good. Full scramble, no peeking during execution, everything you can’t see is solved:


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## pglewis (Jun 10, 2019)

mark49152 said:


> One tip that helped me: try a metronome. Set it to say 1.5 seconds, and try to move to the next sticker on every beat. It helps establish a smooth rhythm and break the habit of pausing. Ratchet up the beat whenever it starts to feel easy.



I just had the same thought earlier, that's a great idea.


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## Torrente (Jun 10, 2019)

Hello, I am a 50yo cuber, I used to solve the cube 37 years ago in around 45 seconds and I am coming back to it.
Currently I am able to solve it with the basic method proposed by The Cubicle that has quite simplified algorithms in around 2.5minutes, now I am transitioning to the basic method proposed by cubeskills.com but I am having difficulty memorizing the last layer corner permutation algorithm [ (R U R’ U’) (R’ F R2 U’) R’ U’ (R U R’ F’) ] any idea about memorization techniques for the red part of this algorithm.

My idea is to continue with more advanced methods with the first objective of reach less then 1 minute and I understand that I will need to exercise the memory too ;-)

Thank you!


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## One Wheel (Jun 11, 2019)

Torrente said:


> Hello, I am a 50yo cuber, I used to solve the cube 37 years ago in around 45 seconds and I am coming back to it.
> Currently I am able to solve it with the basic method proposed by The Cubicle that has quite simplified algorithms in around 2.5minutes, now I am transitioning to the basic method proposed by cubeskills.com but I am having difficulty memorizing the last layer corner permutation algorithm [ (R U R’ U’) (R’ F R2 U’) R’ U’ (R U R’ F’) ] any idea about memorization techniques for the red part of this algorithm.
> 
> My idea is to continue with more advanced methods with the first objective of reach less then 1 minute and I understand that I will need to exercise the memory too ;-)
> ...


Welcome! For that particular algorithm I would split it up a little differently. Try R U R’ U’ R’ F) (R2 U’ R’ U’) (R U R’ F’).


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## pglewis (Jun 11, 2019)

Torrente said:


> Hello, I am a 50yo cuber, I used to solve the cube 37 years ago in around 45 seconds and I am coming back to it.
> Currently I am able to solve it with the basic method proposed by The Cubicle that has quite simplified algorithms in around 2.5minutes, now I am transitioning to the basic method proposed by cubeskills.com but I am having difficulty memorizing the last layer corner permutation algorithm [ (R U R’ U’) (R’ F R2 U’) R’ U’ (R U R’ F’) ] any idea about memorization techniques for the red part of this algorithm.
> 
> My idea is to continue with more advanced methods with the first objective of reach less then 1 minute and I understand that I will need to exercise the memory too ;-)
> ...



Breaking it down into short triggers would be: (R U R' U') (R F R) (R U' R' U') (R U R' F'). Execution-wise you definitely want to learn it with the back-to-back Rs combined as R2 though. 

It's funny that I had to execute it on a cube to recognize this as T-Perm . Once you get it into muscle memory your hands will just know what to do, and it won't take long with PLLs due to the frequency you'll use them.


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## h2f (Jun 11, 2019)

pglewis said:


> I did some timed tests to see how quickly I can trace-- just saying the Speffz letters out loud without memorizing-- and my initial benchmark is 50-60 seconds. I'd like to be memo'ing completely in 90 seconds max. I think I can cut my tracing time in half fairly quickly with dedicated practice. I think the top guys do full memo for 3bld in like 8-10 seconds, I figure I ought to be able to trace in 25 seconds lol.



I do a lot only edges or corners memos and solutions and it helps a lot to cut off memo times.


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## xyzzy (Jun 11, 2019)

Torrente said:


> I am having difficulty memorizing the last layer corner permutation algorithm [ (R U R’ U’) (R’ F R2 U’) R’ U’ (R U R’ F’) ] any idea about memorization techniques for the red part of this algorithm.


As an alternative, rather than splitting the alg into smaller chunks and then still trying to memorise those chunks by brute force, you can look at how the pieces move around as you perform the alg.

The first half of this alg moves the front-right corner and edge around, and the second half moves the front-left corner and edge around. (Follow the link to see what it looks like on a virtual cube.) Many of the last layer algs you'll learn will consist of moving corner-edge pairs around the cube, eventually bringing them back to their original positions, so this is a very useful technique for memorising algs.


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## OldUKCuber (Jun 11, 2019)

Hi everyone. New to the community here - but been cubing on and off for the last 38 years or so. I'm 46, so I hope I qualify for the "Older Cuber" title. Currently I'm averaging around 25s using CFOP.

I need to set myself a target - hopefully resulting in faster solves. I'm thinking of learning full OLL - I just need to commit to it and get going. Any tips? Any good websites for practicing? (anything better than bestsiteever.ru?)


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## pglewis (Jun 11, 2019)

h2f said:


> I do a lot only edges or corners memos and solutions and it helps a lot to cut off memo times.



I tried a little metronome practice yesterday but I still need to get faster for that to be effective I think, especially on corners. I'm a lot slower converting sticker => Speffz on corners than I am edges, which makes sense with one more color to process. I may focus on corner-only tracing for a bit. 



OldUKCuber said:


> Hi everyone. New to the community here - but been cubing on and off for the last 38 years or so. I'm 46, so I hope I qualify for the "Older Cuber" title. Currently I'm averaging around 25s using CFOP.
> 
> I need to set myself a target - hopefully resulting in faster solves. I'm thinking of learning full OLL - I just need to commit to it and get going. Any tips? Any good websites for practicing? (anything better than bestsiteever.ru?)



Full OLL helps a lot but it is not a quick fix. It has taken me over a year and a half to get to the point where I can really say "I know full OLL", and there are 4 or 5 that are still dodgy tbh. It's not just that there are more than twice as may cases as PLL but OLL case frequency is a lot lower than PLL so you get less real-world practice per case. 

The younger, faster folks will tell you that you don't _need_ full OLL to get sub 20 but I'll counter that it sure does help, and because it takes a while to get all the algs down I believe the sooner you start learning some of them the better. Better F2L is one of those things we'll likely always benefit from, so for sure, definitely focus on improving your F2L cases... but I'd say to also learn a few new OLLs per week to add to your arsenal. Some, like the 6-move T and P OLLs are no-brainers to learn if you don't have those yet; it might help to list the OLLs you currently know.


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## pglewis (Jun 17, 2019)

3x3 potential is still showing good things this past week. I beat my PB single by a few hundredths but no sub :14 yet. Low 16 full-steps aren't exactly common but don't completely shock me at this point. Kinda weird that I've had more 14s than 15s in the past couple weeks. Still not consistent enough to get my global whittled down, I've been on pace for a sub :22 Ao50 a few times but always hit a spell of mistake solves over :25. Both single and Ao50 are imminently beatable right now, my Ao5 is still a silly outlier for me, and sub :20 Ao12 is still my next biggest personal milestone. 

3bld: Haven't put in as much time as I wanted but I'm definitely getting more comfortable with corner tracing and untimed check-ins are still better than 50% success. Practicing the trace is still the main prescription as well as drilling my image list, pairs that I can't conjure an image quickly are another big culprit on my memo time. My PB is only 3:12 so I expect to be threatening that, if I haven't beat, by the end of the month. 

In the general cubing news: I'm kinda feeling sad for Mark B. Beats the most hallowed and oldest standing WCA record (I think), but then only holds it for a few months. Then FMC single and average which he only had for, what, a week? I didn't wanna muddle the WR thread with that and certainly don't wanna diminish the amazing accomplishment, but damn the luck lol.


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## Mike Hughey (Jun 17, 2019)

pglewis said:


> In the general cubing news: I'm kinda feeling sad for Mark B. Beats the most hallowed and oldest standing WCA record (I think), but then only holds it for a few months. Then FMC single and average which he only had for, what, a week? I didn't wanna muddle the WR thread with that and certainly don't wanna diminish the amazing accomplishment, but damn the luck lol.


 I understand that sentiment, but I admit I don't share it. From my perspective, the accomplishment is earning a WR, no matter how long you hold it. Mark has set himself as one of the elite by holding two unrelated WRs, and as far as I'm concerned, the important thing is that he has held it, and no one can take that away.

I remember back when I dreamed of "stealing" a couple of world records. I had two chances: once for multiBLD back when they first changed the rules to the hour time limit, and hadn't yet decided to allow old accomplishments to count if they met the new rules. I attempted 10 cubes and was fully capable of getting it, but only got 6/10 - so very disappointing. I think I only needed 7 points to get the WR. I knew it was "stealing" the record because I wasn't really good enough for a world record, but I wouldn't have cared. I would have always been able to say I once had the WR (even if they later "invalidated" it by allowing the older records to count, I still would have had it according to official rules at the time).

The second chance was for 5BLD. When they invalidated Matyas's solves, the WR for 5BLD was ludicrously worse than the best in the world. Ville was ruling at 5BLD at the time at home, but couldn't get a decent solve in competition. Several of us were attempting to "steal" the WR by getting one before he got one, but I unfortunately had a streak of bad solves in competition then. I remember how upset Chester Lian was (because he's such a nice guy) when he managed to do it at a competition we both were at, because his time was significantly better than I was capable of, and he knew he was putting the record out of reach of my ability at the time, and I think he was hoping I could have a chance at it too. But hey, Chester got his WR, and that will always be on the books.

I just think it's great to hold a WR no matter how short the time. It's practically inevitable that a given WR will someday be broken; it's just an honor to hold it at all.


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## xyzzy (Jun 17, 2019)

Mike Hughey said:


> From my perspective, the accomplishment is earning a WR, no matter how long you hold it.


I got into competitive speedcubing way too late and am not skilled enough to earn any WRs, but I did manage to briefly hold NR single+average in one event and that's probably one of my proudest achievements ever. An absolutely tiny, minuscule achievement compared to a world record (much less breaking a very-long-standing MBLD world record _and_ getting a ridiculously low FMC world record), but I'll take it.

But that said, I'm still a bit frustrated that I only held the NRs for a few months. It's a complicated feeling, I guess? (I mean, the MBLD world record was honestly up for grabs, since Shivam, Kamil, and a few others were also getting sup-Maskow results unofficially, but nobody expected the FMC record to be broken so shortly. And it's especially sad because just changing _that one insertion_ would've given Mark both a 16 single and a 22.0 mean, the same as what Sebastiano achieved.)


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## Mike Hughey (Jun 17, 2019)

xyzzy said:


> And it's especially sad because just changing _that one insertion_ would've given Mark both a 16 single and a 22.0 mean, the same as what Sebastiano achieved.)


I do agree that this is rather sad. And there's definitely a big psychological difference between tying a WR and beating it, so there's that here too.


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## OldUKCuber (Jun 17, 2019)

pglewis said:


> I tried a little metronome practice yesterday but I still need to get faster for that to be effective I think, especially on corners. I'm a lot slower converting sticker => Speffz on corners than I am edges, which makes sense with one more color to process. I may focus on corner-only tracing for a bit.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I've decided to pursue full OLL. I think I pretty much know two-thirds of them already - just need to push myself to learn the rest. C-Shapes, I-Shapes, Knight Move Shapes and Awkward Shapes make up most of what I don't know. Finding the OLL trainer on bestsiteever.ru invaluable. I think F2L will need some serious brain re-wiring - so that's going to be a longer term goal.


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## pglewis (Jun 17, 2019)

OldUKCuber said:


> I've decided to pursue full OLL. I think I pretty much know two-thirds of them already - just need to push myself to learn the rest. C-Shapes, I-Shapes, Knight Move Shapes and Awkward Shapes make up most of what I don't know. Finding the OLL trainer on bestsiteever.ru invaluable. I think F2L will need some serious brain re-wiring - so that's going to be a longer term goal.



I didn't realize you were that far along with OLL, definitely might as well work on finishing them off. 

F2L has lots of cases but has the advantage that you get plenty of practice with up to 4 pairs per solve. JPerm has a PDF that's the best reference I've seen to date (most of the F2L lists only cover last slot, not all the real world cases). Link in the video description on YouTube:


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## OldUKCuber (Jun 18, 2019)

pglewis said:


> I didn't realize you were that far along with OLL, definitely might as well work on finishing them off.
> 
> F2L has lots of cases but has the advantage that you get plenty of practice with up to 4 pairs per solve. JPerm has a PDF that's the best reference I've seen to date (most of the F2L lists only cover last slot, not all the real world cases). Link in the video description on YouTube:



Thanks for the link. I follow J-Perm and had seen that before, but now I've downloaded the pdf as I'm getting a bit more serious about learning new stuff. I've also downloaded Feliks' F2L Algs as that covers all slots as well (cube rotation is often a really bad thing for me - old habits die hard).


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## Oldmancfop (Jun 21, 2019)

So look ahead is starting to feel good, I feel like my good solves are becoming reasonably fluid without too many pauses, they’re starting to feel effortless. I’ll try a few timed solves see if my times are coming down. Hmm tough cross but I can work with it, dammit I didn’t find my first pair, I can’t see it, where is it? turn faster I’ve got to make up time, hell I turned too fast now my look ahead has gone completely out of the window, I should feel like I’m one step ahead but I’m one step behind, I’m way behind now TURN FASTER, MAKE UP TIME!! I need a good pll, which one is it, my brain has frozen, that one, wait something’s not right, arghh wrong one, another pll and stop the clock, 38 seconds… fan-bloody-tastic!

OK they’re not all that bad, but does this sound familiar or am I destined to never be any good at this thing?


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## AbsoRuud (Jun 21, 2019)

Slow down more until you can do it literally without making a single pause, even if it takes you 2 minutes. It's alright. Speed will come once you get the technique right.


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## OldUKCuber (Jun 21, 2019)

Yep. 1 step back before taking 2 steps forward is how you progress here.


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## h2f (Jun 21, 2019)

pglewis said:


> Beats the most hallowed and oldest standing WCA record (I think)



It wasnt him.  It was Reto Bubendort who beat the 24 mo3 and brought it to 23 mo3 and hold it for few weeks. Next was Mark who brought it to 22.33 and next Sebastiano to 22.

https://www.worldcubeassociation.or...d=&eventId=333fm&years=&mixHist=Mixed+History


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## Oldmancfop (Jun 21, 2019)

AbsoRuud said:


> Slow down more until you can do it literally without making a single pause, even if it takes you 2 minutes. It's alright. Speed will come once you get the technique right.


Yep it's the slowing down that I know I have to do but find really difficult. It's just like hitting a golf ball, the harder I try to hit it, the less distance it will go, but the temptation is almost overwhelming. I must employ/learn more self restraint.


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## CLL Smooth (Jun 21, 2019)

h2f said:


> It wasnt him.  It was Reto Bubendort who beat the 24 mo3 and brought it to 23 mo3 and hold it for few weeks. Next was Mark who brought it to 22.33 and next Sebastiano to 22.
> 
> https://www.worldcubeassociation.or...d=&eventId=333fm&years=&mixHist=Mixed+History


I think he was talking about MBLD


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## h2f (Jun 21, 2019)

CLL Smooth said:


> I think he was talking about MBLD





pglewis said:


> In the general cubing news: I'm kinda feeling sad for Mark B. Beats the most hallowed and oldest standing WCA record (I think), but then only holds it for a few months. Then FMC single and average which he only had for, what, a week? I didn't wanna muddle the WR thread with that and certainly don't wanna diminish the amazing accomplishment, but damn the luck lol.



I guess you're right.


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## AbsoRuud (Jun 21, 2019)

Oldmancfop said:


> Yep it's the slowing down that I know I have to do but find really difficult. It's just like hitting a golf ball, the harder I try to hit it, the less distance it will go, but the temptation is almost overwhelming. I must employ/learn more self restraint.


Oh, and I do not follow my own advice at all. Not at all. I like your comparison. I compare it ot bowling. Throwing the ball as fast as you can is fun. Hitting the pins, eh, it's a bonus. 

But with cubing it really does help to slow down.


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## pglewis (Jun 24, 2019)

Oldmancfop said:


> So look ahead is starting to feel good, I feel like my good solves are becoming reasonably fluid without too many pauses, they’re starting to feel effortless. I’ll try a few timed solves see if my times are coming down. Hmm tough cross but I can work with it, dammit I didn’t find my first pair, I can’t see it, where is it? turn faster I’ve got to make up time, hell I turned too fast now my look ahead has gone completely out of the window, I should feel like I’m one step ahead but I’m one step behind, I’m way behind now TURN FASTER, MAKE UP TIME!! I need a good pll, which one is it, my brain has frozen, that one, wait something’s not right, arghh wrong one, another pll and stop the clock, 38 seconds… fan-bloody-tastic!
> 
> OK they’re not all that bad, but does this sound familiar or am I destined to never be any good at this thing?



Happens to me all the time, in one form or another. "I'm going to pay extra close attention to X in this solve" *stops timer* "Oh crap, I didn't pay attention to X at all."


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## SpartanSailor (Jun 24, 2019)

Oldmancfop said:


> So look ahead is starting to feel good, I feel like my good solves are becoming reasonably fluid without too many pauses, they’re starting to feel effortless. I’ll try a few timed solves see if my times are coming down. Hmm tough cross but I can work with it, dammit I didn’t find my first pair, I can’t see it, where is it? turn faster I’ve got to make up time, hell I turned too fast now my look ahead has gone completely out of the window, I should feel like I’m one step ahead but I’m one step behind, I’m way behind now TURN FASTER, MAKE UP TIME!! I need a good pll, which one is it, my brain has frozen, that one, wait something’s not right, arghh wrong one, another pll and stop the clock, 38 seconds… fan-bloody-tastic!
> 
> OK they’re not all that bad, but does this sound familiar or am I destined to never be any good at this thing?


This. SOOOOOO... this.


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## SpartanSailor (Jun 24, 2019)

AbsoRuud said:


> Slow down more until you can do it literally without making a single pause, even if it takes you 2 minutes. It's alright. Speed will come once you get the technique right.


This is what I tell myself al the time. But in reality, when you’re already at a plateau point it’s WAY more difficult to actually slow down than to simply TPS spam the Alg or F2L insertion you know. I find it incredibly difficult to pace myself so that I don’t just insert the pair I’m working as fast as humanly possible. Of course, inserting super fast just means I’m hunting for he next pair rather than fluidly connecting the next pair. 

Despite working untimed solves and trying to turn smoothly... whenever the timer starts, I just go as fast as I can, then waste a time of time hunting only to do the next pair as fast as possible... repeat. 

I wish I could do timed/comp solves how I do my random untimed solves with smoothness and flow. I’m not even sure what those times would be, although I’d bet they are consistently faster than my timed solves and WAY beyond my competition times.


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## openseas (Jun 24, 2019)

Just finished Western Championship (CubingUSA) - One of the worst outcomes in terms of results (10 DNFs in one day) but it was quite fun working with young & fun staffs in Cali area. Basically, all BLD results were DNF, not a single success including MBLD (3 out of 12).

3BLD: 2 DNFs were, one edge and one corner comms error but both of them I screwed up U/U' unsetup. Looks like it happens when I slow down for accuracy 
4BLD: all 3 of them, decent time - 6,7,8 min. A little bit of 5BLD practice helped for both faster memo and execution. Even with a triple DNF, it is a progress. All 3 missed just 1~2 comms. 
5BLD: both 4BLD and 5BLD combined time limit was 75min, and I was able to finish all 6 attempts (almost). Time wise, 19, 18, 15 (judge stopped me in the middle of wing execution, probably 17 min if I was allowed to finish). Memo was around 9min. Execution has to be improved in speed and accuracy. 
MBLD: another lesson learned, all my "evening" MBLD attempts were DNF (4~5 total?). After exhausting all day staffing, going for the maximum cubes in MBLD was not a smart choice. The only bright side was execution time: 12 cube execution was about 11 mins (including multiple pause), comp execution PB for MBLD.
333: not much to add but one interesting result. The worst solve, I screwed up OLL - had to start with cross again. When I looked at the cube, it was U2 away from all corners solved. So, instead of CFOP, floated (U2) and did 2 edge comms and finished. Regardless of the time, felt quite good.


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## pglewis (Jun 24, 2019)

openseas said:


> [...] When I looked at the cube, it was U2 away from all corners solved. So, instead of CFOP, floated (U2) and did 2 edge comms and finished. Regardless of the time, felt quite good.



This... is awesome!


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## Puffin (Jun 25, 2019)

I'm having the hardest time doing M turns quickly, especially M2s. Most things I see progress on, slow as it is, but with those turns I'm like a grandpa. I silently think to myself "M, M" and go about one turn per second.


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## SpartanSailor (Jun 25, 2019)

Puffin said:


> I'm having the hardest time doing M turns quickly, especially M2s. Most things I see progress on, slow as it is, but with those turns I'm like a grandpa. I silently think to myself "M, M" and go about one turn per second.


Fluidity will come with time. There are some tricks you can practice, such as using both ring and middle fingers to execute M2. But even that takes a little getting used to before it feels normal.


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## pglewis (Jun 25, 2019)

Puffin said:


> I'm having the hardest time doing M turns quickly, especially M2s. Most things I see progress on, slow as it is, but with those turns I'm like a grandpa. I silently think to myself "M, M" and go about one turn per second.



How long have you been practicing it? I think for the first 8 months M slices ran the risk of sending my puzzle flying, now it's a great feeling when I really nail a Z perm at the end of decent solve. Taking up blindfold with M2 was one factor that improved things but I was already much improved with M slices before that. 

Hardware might be a little bit of a factor too. Slice moves can already suffer from more friction and then magnets also add greater resistance to the initial momentum than normal face turns. I'm fond of lighter magnets myself but hardware is very personal and pretty much "try stuff and find what suits your style".


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## SpartanSailor (Jun 25, 2019)

Hardware is KEY! I have some cubes where M and M2 slices are a joy and work super well... then others where if my finger even slightly catches on the other layers it goes to crap. 

By contrast, I prefer heavier magnets. Stronger magnets suit my turning style. Lighter magnets overshoot for me. In particular with blind solving when I’m not able to see it. If it over shoots or undershoots with a blindfold, I have no idea how to “fix” it. So, for blind I prefer the strongest magnets. I’m also not spamming TPS as much during blind because I’m focused on execution being smooth and what comes next. 

But, back to M2 and M-slice turns. They can be fun, but we’re more tricky for me to learn than I anticipated.


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## openseas (Jun 25, 2019)

Puffin said:


> I'm having the hardest time doing M turns quickly, especially M2s. Most things I see progress on, slow as it is, but with those turns I'm like a grandpa. I silently think to myself "M, M" and go about one turn per second.



Was it different from Z or H perm? Or M/M’ turn is always issue?

You may want to check how you hold the cube for M slice turn. I’m using left ring for M’, ring/middle for M2, while right index from top of the cube for M.
For some cases, I use Rw M’ for M2 depends on commutator fluidity.

And, yes, HW is critical- no magnet or weaker magnets are recommended for BLD finger tricks .


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## h2f (Jun 26, 2019)

I've checked Eka method for fun and it ended switching to UF in 3bld.


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## mark49152 (Jun 26, 2019)

h2f said:


> I've checked Eka method for fun and it ended switching to UF in 3bld.


Yeah I've done a few solves like that for fun, using UF buffer and setting up to DF helper. I think my solutions were quite inefficient though, and not a good approximation of true UF buffer! 

Anyway I'm not tempted to switch. With a busy life, it takes me so long to implement changes to my solving, and I have a long list of improvements I want to make that will cost less time and deliver greater benefit than switching edge buffer .


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## openseas (Jun 27, 2019)

h2f said:


> I've checked Eka method for fun and it ended switching to UF in 3bld.



Haha, interesting!

Do you have any decent document on EKA? or did you just come up with your own setup?


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## h2f (Jun 27, 2019)

mark49152 said:


> Yeah I've done a few solves like that for fun, using UF buffer and setting up to DF helper. I think my solutions were quite inefficient though, and not a good approximation of true UF buffer!
> 
> Anyway I'm not tempted to switch. With a busy life, it takes me so long to implement changes to my solving, and I have a long list of improvements I want to make that will cost less time and deliver greater benefit than switching edge buffer .



I remember our posts about it. I was learning some UF algs last winter and it showed I remember all UF-UR-xx algs so it wasn't so hard. I see a lot of potence in UF - after two days I was averaging 1:30 with memo 40 seconds and a lot of DNFs.


openseas said:


> Haha, interesting!
> 
> Do you have any decent document on EKA? or did you just come up with your own setup?



I've seen Grigorij's video and I use Ishaan/Graham lists. Setups are intuitive but I looked at Grigorij's list. The idea is always set your first target to UR even if it means moving second target. I found setups with UB awkward so I've learnt it - algs are very easy. I also start adding all intuitive algs.


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## mark49152 (Jun 27, 2019)

h2f said:


> I remember our posts about it. I was learning some UF algs last winter and it showed I remember all UF-UR-xx algs so it wasn't so hard. I see a lot of potence in UF - after two days I was averaging 1:30 with memo 40 seconds and a lot of DNFs.


What do you average for edge execution only, with DF buffer?


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## h2f (Jun 27, 2019)

mark49152 said:


> What do you average for edge execution only, with DF buffer?



I have only sessions with both memo and execution. My execution with DF in full solves was between 20-45. But my mistake giving stats with UF is that I looked only for succesfull solves. Full solves no matter DNF or OK are 1:10-2:00 but it happens sometimes 3 minutes.


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## mark49152 (Jun 27, 2019)

h2f said:


> I have only sessions with both memo and execution. My execution with DF in full solves was between 20-45. But my mistake giving stats with UF is that I looked only for succesfull solves. Full solves no matter DNF or OK are 1:10-2:00 but it happens sometimes 3 minutes.


I try to separate out whatever element I want to measure. For comms training I do safe memo of one piece type only, then time execution only (blindfolded). I throw away DNFs and any result where there was a pause to recall memo, but I keep results with pauses if those were only hesitations in remembering comms. That gives me a pretty good measurement of execution performance suitable for tracking progress learning and optimizing comms.


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## h2f (Jun 27, 2019)

@mark49152 interesting, I'll keep in mind.


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## Oldmancfop (Jun 28, 2019)

Puffin said:


> I'm having the hardest time doing M turns quickly, especially M2s. Most things I see progress on, slow as it is, but with those turns I'm like a grandpa. I silently think to myself "M, M" and go about one turn per second.



I'm gradually getting used to M turns, sounds like your brain/hands are pausing with dread when you see you need to execute an M. As much as executing the M turn I do a small re-grip that must be accurate so as not to foul the path of the middle layer with other fingers. Over time this re-grip has become more natural, reducing my apprehension and as a result my turns are getting a little faster. As I'm discovering, learning to cube demands patients, it often feels like progress is non existent, but it's there.


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## Oldmancfop (Jun 28, 2019)

So what do you think, this cube ready for a clean? And yep, I've got a dog!


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## Sergey (Jun 28, 2019)

Oldmancfop said:


> So what do you think, this cube ready for a clean? And yep, I've got a dog!View attachment 10517


I think it was ready for this yet yesterday.


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## h2f (Jun 29, 2019)

mark49152 said:


> Anyway I'm not tempted to switch. With a busy life, it takes me so long to implement changes to my solving, and I have a long list of improvements I want to make that will cost less time and deliver greater benefit than switching edge buffer .



Moreover - I gave a try for CE memo and EC execution with UB-UL switch for parity and it looks very promising. After 2 days and around 150 solves my times are down to 1:30-2:30 range with some nice 30-40 memos. I think this order CE-EC is much better: corners in a long term memory are easier to recall - it's 3-4 words mostly - and edges in a short term memory are easier to fast memo - no need to recall words for every pair. Of course I need a time to get used to it but I feel I can memo faster than in EC-CE. In the EC-CE I've hit 20 seconds barrier which I couldnt pass.


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## pglewis (Jun 29, 2019)

h2f said:


> Moreover - I gave a try for CE memo and EC execution with UB-UL switch for parity and it looks very promising. After 2 days and around 150 solves my times are down to 1:30-2:30 range with some nice 30-40 memos. I think this order CE-EC is much better: corners in a long term memory are easier to recall - it's 3-4 words mostly - and edges in a short term memory are easier to fast memo - no need to recall words for every pair. Of course I need a time to get used to it but I feel I can memo faster than in EC-CE. In the EC-CE I've hit 20 seconds barrier which I couldnt pass.



I'm rather surprised you didn't do CE-EC before. Most things are a matter of compromise but I think going in CE-EC order is one of those rare things where there are advantages and no disadvantages.


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## Mike Hughey (Jun 29, 2019)

I feel so incompetent. Even after having switched to CE-EC several years ago, I have yet to get anywhere near my memo speed of EC-CE that I was at before. I averaged 30-40 seconds memo with EC-CE, and often had 20 second memos. Now, I probably average 45-55 seconds, and my best memo times aren't much better than 30 seconds. But I don't know how much of that is lack of adequate practice, and how much is because my audio memo is just not very good.


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## mark49152 (Jun 29, 2019)

h2f said:


> Moreover - I gave a try for CE memo and EC execution with UB-UL switch for parity and it looks very promising. After 2 days and around 150 solves my times are down to 1:30-2:30 range with some nice 30-40 memos. I think this order CE-EC is much better: corners in a long term memory are easier to recall - it's 3-4 words mostly - and edges in a short term memory are easier to fast memo - no need to recall words for every pair. Of course I need a time to get used to it but I feel I can memo faster than in EC-CE. In the EC-CE I've hit 20 seconds barrier which I couldnt pass.


Sounds good! With UF buffer, or DF?

Mini competition report from British Summer Open. It's a rare treat to be able to do three BLD events plus FMC all in one morning, so I was really looking forward to this comp. Sadly it was a disaster .

In FMC, which I never practise, I tried to be clever and do EO, since I've seen it mentioned so much recently. Then I noticed a few easy edges, and after those saw an easy way to solve all remaining edges. So I thought, great, I've got plenty of time so I'll solve all the corners with insertions, since I'm good with BLD comms! Unfortunately, it took 4 comms, and I couldn't figure out how to insert or cancel any of them. In the last 5 minutes I noticed my written solution left 3 corners unsolved and I had no time to track down the mistake, so I tacked on a 5th comm, an 11 mover, on to the end. So I solved edges in 14 moves for a total score of 59 moves . I enjoyed trying out different things though.

Multi was 13/20. My memo was fine, pretty solid and in good time. Forgot corners on just one cube. My execution was full of mistakes though. It was my first big attempt since switching to full 3-style and I'm pretty sure I fouled up some edge comms under pressure. Also I used my new cube set, which is faster and less stable, and I found that a little distracting.

Triple DNF in 5BLD. First two scrambles were nice, and I was a minute under PB on both, but lost them on simple exec errors. One was a new wing comm done backwards, so again full 3-style tripped me up. Third scramble was much tougher and I made a mess of it.

Finally, triple DNF in 4BLD too. Before the first solve I saw my camera SD card was full and I had no time to clear some space, which annoyed me and I lost focus during memo. So I bailed out rather than create time pressure in the remaining two solves. The next two solves were exec errors, but by this time I think I was getting careless anyway.

Overall, my memo and times were a positive, but my accuracy let me down again, same as the previous 3-4 comps. Full 3-style seems to have really set me back - my times have recovered to what they were before, but not improved beyond, and my accuracy has really suffered. Its going to take a lot more practice for it to settle in.


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## pglewis (Jun 30, 2019)

I caught a :15.9 while recording a few solves today. Wasn't that great during F2L but I didn't avoid the dot OLL and it paid off with a PLL skip.


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## h2f (Jun 30, 2019)

pglewis said:


> Most things are a matter of compromise but I think going in CE-EC order is one of those rare things where there are advantages and no disadvantages.



I was talking with few top blinders and it's personal.



Mike Hughey said:


> I feel so incompetent. Even after having switched to CE-EC several years ago, I have yet to get anywhere near my memo speed of EC-CE that I was at before. I averaged 30-40 seconds memo with EC-CE, and often had 20 second memos. Now, I probably average 45-55 seconds, and my best memo times aren't much better than 30 seconds. But I don't know how much of that is lack of adequate practice, and how much is because my audio memo is just not very good.



I'll see what happens after some time of practice. Maybe I'll back to EC-CE.



mark49152 said:


> Sounds good! With UF buffer, or DF?



UF.
Sad to hear about triple DNFs in both big blindes, Mark.


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## Tom Joad (Jun 30, 2019)

pglewis said:


> I caught a :15.9 while recording a few solves today. Wasn't that great during F2L but I didn't avoid the dot OLL and it paid off with a PLL skip.



Nice. I love anything sub 16 now, definitely getting them more and more... sub-15 not so much...

Minor observation based on a quick watch of that video: learn to recognise cases without peaking at the back of the cube and you’ll knock another second or two off...


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## h2f (Jun 30, 2019)

pglewis said:


> I caught a :15.9 while recording a few solves today. Wasn't that great during F2L but I didn't avoid the dot OLL and it paid off with a PLL skip.



Nice solve!


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## pglewis (Jun 30, 2019)

Tom Joad said:


> Minor observation based on a quick watch of that video: learn to recognise cases without peaking at the back of the cube and you’ll knock another second or two off...



Yeah, and maybe not start into the 2nd pair and then change my mind . 

Without the PLL skip that was probably on pace for an 18 or low 19 which is still currently a decent solve for me, fully on the merits of spotting the first and last pairs quickly. Pairs 2 and 3 were total lookahead failure which is one reason I still bleed out into the mid 20s. 

Another thing uncovered by recording a few solves: I have a bad habit of just randomly turning the U layer and/or rotating during F2L when I don't know what I'm doing. I haven't spotted a pair yet but I need to keep turning, right? Ridiculous things like U, y, spot pair, U'. 

This is the sort of stuff I was hoping to uncover. I know some things that need work but watching recorded solves is eye opening.


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## SpartanSailor (Jun 30, 2019)

@pglewis sometimes when doing untimed solves, i avoid using cube rotations at all. I notice my look ahead gets better when I force myself to look around while performing a particular pair insert. Then, feeling good and smooth, I start the timer and everything goes to crap.


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## h2f (Jun 30, 2019)

pglewis said:


> Another thing uncovered by recording a few solves: I have a bad habit of just randomly turning the U layer and/or rotating during F2L when I don't know what I'm doing. I haven't spotted a pair yet but I need to keep turning, right? Ridiculous things like U, y, spot pair, U'.
> 
> .



I do analysys for few solvers and this is a very common habit.


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## pglewis (Jun 30, 2019)

SpartanSailor said:


> @pglewis sometimes when doing untimed solves, i avoid using cube rotations at all. I notice my look ahead gets better when I force myself to look around while performing a particular pair insert. Then, feeling good and smooth, I start the timer and everything goes to crap.



I'm a lot less sensitive to timer pressure than I used to be. I almost always practice with the stackmat once warmed up because I want to catch any surprise singles that might show up regardless of how I'm doing. Even when I rage-quit on a tanking ao50 like I have a few times this past week I tend to keep solving and timing, I just stop tracking the session. I'll often run the timer even if I'm doing slow solves; who cares if it comes up :38, I know I'm tinkering with things, and it can be surprising and informative to see occasional 18s pop up on slow-turning solves. 

All that said, I'm still not immune. Often while warming up without the timer I'll think "these are going smoothly, I should be timing" and the chaos ensues.


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## AbsoRuud (Jul 1, 2019)

Had my second comp this weekend. I got a PR single on 3x3x3 and 2x2x2 and both my times on 4x4x4 were PRs so I should be moving up in the over 40 rankings when they get updated.  Averages were garbage due to one DNF solve in 2x2x2 and just general failing at 3x3x3. Skewb went alright, but no PRs there. Very nice competition, friendly people and I got to hang out with Mats Valk for a while. He won two events (3x3x3 and 4x4x4), Matteo de Wit won two other events (Megaminx and Skewb), Antonie Paterakis won 2x2x2 as expected and Vincent Chan won Square-1. All in all it was an extremely warm, but very good day.


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## SpartanSailor (Jul 2, 2019)

pglewis said:


> I'm a lot less sensitive to timer pressure than I used to be. I almost always practice with the stackmat once warmed up because I want to catch any surprise singles that might show up regardless of how I'm doing. Even when I rage-quit on a tanking ao50 like I have a few times this past week I tend to keep solving and timing, I just stop tracking the session. I'll often run the timer even if I'm doing slow solves; who cares if it comes up :38, I know I'm tinkering with things, and it can be surprising and informative to see occasional 18s pop up on slow-turning solves.
> 
> All that said, I'm still not immune. Often while warming up without the timer I'll think "these are going smoothly, I should be timing" and the chaos ensues.


I had a couple 18s when doing slow turns today. I was timing but trying to go slower and smooth. Pretty much tried to do it withOUT slamming the insertions and focused on seeing the next piece I would work. Even if I only saw an edge or a corner alone, I at least knew where one thing was so I only had to search for it’s mate. I found that several times I could actually see both parts of the pair. Smooth is definitely faster.


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## Logiqx (Jul 2, 2019)

mark49152 said:


> Mini competition report from British Summer Open. It's a rare treat to be able to do three BLD events plus FMC all in one morning, so I was really looking forward to this comp. Sadly it was a disaster .



It was a shame to miss you and sorry to have hear about your results Mark. It sounds like you've been putting in the work for even better times in the future.



AbsoRuud said:


> Had my second comp this weekend. I got a PR single on 3x3x3 and 2x2x2 and both my times on 4x4x4 were PRs so I should be moving up in the over 40 rankings when they get updated.



Just so as people know, I typically run the refresh every Mon, Tue and Wed morning. The refresh captures results submitted to the WCA before 4am (UTC+1) which is the time of the public database export.

Once I've completed a few other projects, I'm planning to fully automate the refresh later this month... create a machine on AWS and have it run automatically every day.


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## JohnnyReggae (Jul 5, 2019)

I've been away for a couple of weeks on a family holiday travelling through Namibia on a car-trip. Ended up driving 5500 km's over the 2 1/2 weeks with over 1000 km's on gravel roads. Spent 2 weeks in the Etosha Game Reserve camping. Was an amazing and awesome trip. I took a few cubes with me but as usual I took too many and spent the majority of my "free" time with only 1.

I decided before I left that I would spend some time either working on my OH OLL of which I only need to learn another 20 algs or so, or attempting to do blind .... again. I opted for blind. Starting with what I knew, OP or both corners and edges to get used to Speffz and finding pieces etc. Started out writing scrambles and letter pairs, then working on sighted execution. I've always found OP for edges very easy using the T and J perms and execution time using that is quite quick. I struggle a bit more with remembering the reverse of the setup moves for corners even though they are never more than 2 moves. Moved onto writing the scrambles and letter pairs with blind execution. To lastly writing scrambles down so that I can go back to them if I messed up either the memo or execution and not using any paper for memo and doing blind execution. I did manage a few successes I'm happy to say although each was well over 10 minutes. I do recall saying to my wife that I have no idea how people do memo without writing it down and am happy to say that I am starting to get it.

So happy with my progress, I decided to look into M2 for edges and got instantly frustrated. Went back to the start of writing down scrambles and letter pairs and practicing sighted execution for edges only, blind for corners. I've been drilling some execution for the last couple days still using semi-sighted execution for edges in that I am looking at the special case algs as I haven't got Q, S, and I down yet.

I do have a frustration with edges especially when you need to break into a couple of cyles is keeping track of how many actual edges have been memo'd. Is there a very quick way from looking at the numbers when you are done with memo ? I know it could be anywhere between 9 and 13 typically. Is there an easy way to tell because trying to touch each piece trying to make sure they have all been accounted for is tricky ... finger tricky  and then I forget where I am in my memo. I'm sure that will get better with more work and practice but it still frustrates me.


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## pglewis (Jul 5, 2019)

JohnnyReggae said:


> So happy with my progress, I decided to look into M2 for edges and got instantly frustrated. Went back to the start of writing down scrambles and letter pairs and practicing sighted execution for edges only, blind for corners. I've been drilling some execution for the last couple days still using semi-sighted execution for edges in that I am looking at the special case algs as I haven't got Q, S, and I down yet.



One reason I push M2 from the very start is I think some people just getting started will get a few successes with OP edges and stick with it for a while because it's what they know and M2 isn't that much harder, just different. 

For Q btw, I suggest (U' M')x3 (U' M) (U' M')x4 or (U M')x3 (U M) (U M')x4, whichever direction is most comfortable for your finger tricks. A lot of older references suggest (B' R B U R2 U') (M2) (U R2 U' B' R' B) which is intuitive but not very execution friendly IMO. 



JohnnyReggae said:


> Is there an easy way to tell because trying to touch each piece trying to make sure they have all been accounted for is tricky



I track edges I've traced on the L or R faces with my fingers and simply try to remember any I've hit on the M slice. The competent 3bld folks just develop a natural sense of when the trace is done. I tried using a checksum instead of fingers early on but I don't think it's a fruitful approach, at least not for me.


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## JohnnyReggae (Jul 5, 2019)

pglewis said:


> One reason I push M2 from the very start is I think some people just getting started will get a few successes with OP edges and stick with it for a while because it's what they know and M2 isn't that much harder, just different.
> 
> For Q btw, I suggest (U' M')x3 (U' M) (U' M')x4 or (U M')x3 (U M) (U M')x4, whichever direction is most comfortable for your finger tricks. A lot of older references suggest (B' R B U R2 U') (M2) (U R2 U' B' R' B) which is intuitive but not very execution friendly IMO.


Thanks for that Q alg. It's a lot easier to remember and much quicker to execute 



pglewis said:


> I track edges I've traced on the L or R faces with my fingers and simply try to remember any I've hit on the M slice. The competent 3bld folks just develop a natural sense of when the trace is done. I tried using a checksum instead of fingers early on but I don't think it's a fruitful approach, at least not for me.


I was wondering if there was some golden number given any number of corner swaps or rotations. I'll try your method on L and R, it does seem more efficient than trying to trace all the edges. Thanks


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## pglewis (Jul 5, 2019)

JohnnyReggae said:


> I was wondering if there was some golden number given any number of corner swaps or rotations.



For edges you _can_ use a checksum to 11 by counting those already solved, adding one for cycle breaks I think, and maybe there's something special with flipped edges. It doesn't help me know which are still left when I hit a cycle break though, and that's the primary reason I still trace with my fingers.


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## chtiger (Jul 5, 2019)

JohnnyReggae said:


> Is there a very quick way from looking at the numbers when you are done with memo ? I know it could be anywhere between 9 and 13 typically. Is there an easy way to tell because trying to touch each piece trying to make sure they have all been accounted for is tricky


There's 11 to start with (if 11 are solved, 12th has to be). When I was new to blind, since times weren't a concern, before starting the edge tracing, I'd check all the edges to see how many are flipped or solved. Subtract that number from 11 (and take note of flipped ones). This is the number of targets for the trace. If you start a new cycle, add 1 to the target number. When you're done, add the flipped edges to your memo. And it helps to memo in chunks of 4 (or similar), then it's easier to tell how many you've already done.


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## JohnnyReggae (Jul 6, 2019)

chtiger said:


> There's 11 to start with (if 11 are solved, 12th has to be). When I was new to blind, since times weren't a concern, before starting the edge tracing, I'd check all the edges to see how many are flipped or solved. Subtract that number from 11 (and take note of flipped ones). This is the number of targets for the trace. If you start a new cycle, add 1 to the target number. When you're done, add the flipped edges to your memo. And it helps to memo in chunks of 4 (or similar), then it's easier to tell how many you've already done.


This is what I was looking for. Something to give me an indication that I am done without having to trace each piece exactly. I do also like Phil's idea of keeping track of L and R edges. I am going to try use both at the same time.

Thanks guys


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## pglewis (Jul 6, 2019)

Finally had a fairly consistent 3x3 session and got my PB Ao50 down in the mid 22s. Next big milestone would be a sub :20 Ao12.


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## openseas (Jul 8, 2019)

JohnnyReggae said:


> This is what I was looking for. Something to give me an indication that I am done without having to trace each piece exactly. I do also like Phil's idea of keeping track of L and R edges. I am going to try use both at the same time.
> 
> Thanks guys




Yes, for edges, 11-solved/flipped + cycle break, for corners, 7- solves/twisted + cycle break.

In general, total number of stickers -1 (buffer) - solves/flipped/twisted + cycle breaks.

For flipped cases, trends are breaking into cycles, meaning force a flipped sticker into a cycle and start a new one from the flipped part. 2 edge comms are considered to be faster than one flip alg, most cases.


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## JohnnyReggae (Jul 8, 2019)

openseas said:


> Yes, for edges, 11-solved/flipped + cycle break, for corners, 7- solves/twisted + cycle break.
> 
> In general, total number of stickers - solves/flipped/twisted + cycle breaks.
> 
> For flipped cases, trends are breaking into cycles, meaning force a flipped sticker into a cycle and start a new one from the flipped part. 2 edge comma are considered to be faster than one flip alg, most cases.


J-Perm has just done a video on getting faster with 3bld with a bunch of tips, including dealing with flipped edges and corners ... i'm starting to enjoy this little venture into blind solving...


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## h2f (Jul 11, 2019)

I thought I'll let you know. I like UF as a buffer in 3bld. As well as new memo/exe order CEEC. I got first sub-1 yesterday 59.66. 5 comms for edges and 4 for corners. I have to learn algs.


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## Tom Joad (Jul 13, 2019)

First ever sub15 Ao5. Never thought I’d see the day...

A surge of adrenaline, fist pump of delight and obligatory bad solve to follow.

Funny I hadn’t cubed much for a couple of weeks and it came out of nowhere. Perhaps actually bothering to lube the cube for a change paid off!

I guess my new target is an Ao5 of 14 seconds or close enough...


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## pglewis (Jul 13, 2019)

Tom Joad said:


> First ever sub15 Ao5. Never thought I’d see the day...
> 
> A surge of adrenaline, fist pump of delight and obligatory bad solve to follow.
> 
> ...



And here I was happy with a counting low 17 single yesterday lol. Great batch of solves there!


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## chtiger (Jul 13, 2019)

Something kinda crazy happened earlier this week. I had only had three sub-13 3x3 singles ever, with a PB of 12.76. I got a 12.85, which was my 3rd best ever, then 5 solves later got a 12.54. Almost had 2 of my top 4 fastest solves ever in the same average (still would have been just shy of PB avg). First one was OLL skip, second was PLL skip.


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## JohnnyReggae (Jul 14, 2019)

Tom Joad said:


> First ever sub15 Ao5. Never thought I’d see the day...
> 
> A surge of adrenaline, fist pump of delight and obligatory bad solve to follow.
> 
> ...


I've found that after taking a break from my normal practice, my first dozen or so solves back are always pretty good. I've put it down to just being more relaxed and turning slower because I feel a little unsure, and it almost always is a good few solves. Then of course my brain kicks into overdrive and it all falls apart until I can reign myself back again.


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## One Wheel (Jul 15, 2019)

I had a crazy 3BLD success yesterday: I forgot the second half of my edge memo, so I knew that I had executed an even number of targets and didn’t have parity, I went ahead and executed corners then came back and recalled the rest of the edges. Not fast: 6:40, my first two for the WC were in the 4:20-4:30 range DNFs, but it was solved. I really feel like if I could just sit down and do 100 3BLD solves in a week or two I would significantly up my success rate and likely drop my times close to 3 minutes.


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## efattah (Jul 18, 2019)

After another year of untimed solves I tried going back to timed solves. I was definitely rusty under the 'pressure' of high TPS, and it took several weeks of timed solves to get back into the flow, but I was rewarded eventually with a single excellent session with lots of pb's.

From the same late night session:
Ao5 13.93
Ao12 14.45 PB
Ao25 15.04 PB
Ao50 15.76 PB
#solves 139

Generated By csTimer on 2019-07-16​avg of 12: 14.45

Time List:
1. 12.60 F' U' F2 U F2 U2 L2 B2 D' R2 U B2 U2 L' B2 D' L D2 U' F L 
2. 13.71 L2 D' L2 D U2 B2 U' R2 B2 L2 B2 D2 F R B' D B D2 L U F 
3. 17.99 R B2 R' U2 L' U' F D R' U2 R D2 R2 D2 R' D2 F2 L2 D2 F 
4. 13.70 B2 L2 F' D2 F' R2 F' L2 B2 D2 F D' L R' D2 F2 R F2 D R U 
5. 15.12 B R B2 L' F2 R2 U2 R' B2 R' F2 B' R U B2 R2 D2 U R 
6. 15.53 U2 F R' D' L2 B2 D2 R2 D' B2 D L2 F2 U' R' B L R B2 R2 D' 
7. 14.11 B L2 F L2 F R2 B L2 R2 B' L' U2 F D' F' L2 F U2 
8. 14.20 R U2 B2 L2 B2 L' D2 B2 F2 L2 B' D' U' B' D L2 F' R2 U2 
9. (11.38) L' D' F' R2 B R2 D2 F D2 L2 B L2 F2 D' U2 R' F2 L' F' D 
10. 13.62 F2 L2 U F2 L2 U2 B' L' F2 L2 D2 F' U2 F' R2 B' U2 R2 U2 R 
11. (18.01) F2 D2 R F2 D' U2 L2 B2 U' B2 U' R2 F' R2 U B R' F2 D' 
12. 13.96 F L' D L2 D2 F2 R2 F2 L2 D B2 R2 F' U' B' L F2 L D F2


Cube was a Gan 356 X.

When I last did timed solves a year ago, I can't recall my exact pb's but I think they were around Ao12 15.40 and Ao50 16.60, so I gained around 1 second off my averages after a year of untimed solves.

The thing that is most noticeable is that it is now possible to make serious errors in the solve and still get 14.XX, and I am now able to get 11.XX with only mildly lucky solves and 12.XX with non-lucky solves. To get sub-11 still requires significant luck and sub-10 solves require very high luck mixed with flawless lookahead. The above set of 139 solves had two 11's and six 12's in the same sitting which also felt very unusual compared to a year ago.

What is disturbing about getting faster is that I noticed that lookahead failures and/or algorithm 'fetch' delays in memory now have utterly dramatic negative consequences. Even pausing for 3/4 of a second has a major negative impact.

What is most frustrating is that even after 3.5 years of speed cubing I still have a number of what I call 'problem-cases.' Algorithm cases where I struggle to fetch the algorithm from memory, struggle to execute it and often screw up, and it seems no amount of drills fixes the problem for those particular 'bad cases.' So far my only explanation is that certain algorithm patterns don't lend themselves to memory and execution and in these cases my best bet is usually to just 'delete' the old algorithm from memory and find a new one which fetches/executes more smoothly, even if the new algorithm is longer and apparently slower than the old one.


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## Tom Joad (Jul 18, 2019)

efattah said:


> After another year of untimed solves I tried going back to timed solves. I was definitely rusty under the 'pressure' of high TPS, and it took several weeks of timed solves to get back into the flow, but I was rewarded eventually with a single excellent session with lots of pb's.
> 
> From the same late night session:
> Ao5 13.93​Ao12 14.45 PB​Ao25 15.04 PB​Ao50 15.76 PB​#solves 139​​Generated By csTimer on 2019-07-16​avg of 12: 14.45
> ...



This is reassuring!

I just put my timer away with a plan to do exactly the same thing for a year. Seems like the way forward to me. I noticed immediately that I started enjoying rewatching videos (jperm first, how to be sub20, sub 15, sub12, sub10) There’s one hour of great tips right there and there’s no way I am already acting upon all of it just because I watched it one time years ago.

Also started finding white cross solvers on cubesolv.es and reconstructing their solves.

Within a day I sourced seven f2l algs which I wasn’t using, which I am now drilling, It will take quite some time to incorporate these into my solves. Slow solves seems like the only way to do this.

On your last paragraph: any particular examples? I currently had the idea floating around my head that this was just a recognition problem with pairs of olls for me. I plan to get eight cubes in front of me with the two cases from each of the four angles and then learn the auf-oll as one for each of the eight similar looking cases. Should master my weakest oll recognition this way.

Where are you with first pair prediction in inspection? This is my weakest area and something I hope to focus on in my year of untimed solves.

4 years 3 months cubing for me, just got my Pb Ao5 of 14.7, so not quite up to your standard. I would be delighted to take one second off in one year. *picks up cube*


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## MarcelP (Jul 18, 2019)

pglewis said:


> Finally had a fairly consistent 3x3 session and got my PB Ao50 down in the mid 22s. Next big milestone would be a sub :20 Ao12.
> 
> View attachment 10536



Sub 20 was a big milestone for me.. After that it went all bullocks..  Every now and then I practice for a few days and then I seem to get stuck at 19:xx on my Ao100's.. I guess I have hit my limit.


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## SpartanSailor (Jul 18, 2019)

I do a lot of untimed solves and focus on smooth turning and really try to look ahead a lot. But i don’t think I could gona year without timing myself. I do notice improvements when I do mostly untimed solves. But for me, starting the timer makes me change—I turn frantically and don’t focus on look ahead. 

I’m still chasing sub-20, officially. I have a comp in two weeks. I’d love to get a sub-20 ao5 and a new PB single. The following week is US nationals. I don’t expect to do well there based upon my habit of letting my nerves impact my solves. I’ll be on staff too, so, instead of relaxing and getting warmed up, I’ll be working the entire time. 

I’m impressed to see people that can regularly get sub-15s. Especially, those that routinely average less! Never mind the even faster times—blows my mind.


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## efattah (Jul 18, 2019)

Tom Joad said:


> This is reassuring!
> 
> I just put my timer away with a plan to do exactly the same thing for a year. Seems like the way forward to me. I noticed immediately that I started enjoying rewatching videos (jperm first, how to be sub20, sub 15, sub12, sub10) There’s one hour of great tips right there and there’s no way I am already acting upon all of it just because I watched it one time years ago.
> 
> ...



After a year of untimed solves, my inspection phase did not improve whatsoever. The reason is simple; during the year of untimed solves I would cube as a relaxing break, and for me, visualizing the pieces during inspection is not relaxing (rather mentally draining), so I would never bother any type of visualization in my 'untimed inspections', hence inspection never improved. Lookahead did improve though. However, some things got worse. Drills are still unquestionably the best method to improve (in my opinion), but drills feel like work so I rarely do them. In large algorithm sets (say 50+ algorithms) the odds are not 1/50 of each algorithm appearing; they are skewed and some rare cases may come up much less. Without drills, 'low probability' cases come up very rarely, and during the year of untimed solves I gradually began to totally 'lose' certain algorithms that appeared rarely. When I started timing myself I had to do some drills and re-learn the now 'lost' algorithms. I use about 300 algorithms and estimate that I 'lost' about 15-20 algorithms over the course of the year that had to be re-learned at the end.

Another strange thing is that there always seems to be a better algorithm. I can search 5-6 top cubers' sites and find what I think are the top 5 algorithms and pick the best one, then a year later I do another search and find other cubers' pages that I didn't find before that have way better algorithms for the same case. I'm not sure if people are just developing new algorithms or if I just didn't find the good ones in the first place.

One thing that was a little frustrating was that over the course of the untimed solves, occasionally I would try a high TPS untimed solve, and occasionally I would get extremely lucky on the solve. I estimate I probably had a dozen or so sub-10 singles during the year, I really wish I knew how fast they were, but I will never know.


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## pglewis (Jul 18, 2019)

SpartanSailor said:


> But for me, starting the timer makes me change—I turn frantically and don’t focus on look ahead.





efattah said:


> One thing that was a little frustrating was that over the course of the untimed solves, occasionally I would try a high TPS untimed solve, and occasionally I would get extremely lucky on the solve. I estimate I probably had a dozen or so sub-10 singles during the year, I really wish I knew how fast they were, but I will never know.



These are the two main reasons I still break out the Stackmat for any practice session of decent length. I usually don't bother to track the times, I'm perpetually in so much flux that averages longer than 100 aren't too useful to me. I'm fairly comfortable ignoring the timer and not letting it change my solves, if I decide to use something new and get a :35 out of it, big deal. At my stage it's the encouragement of "hey, that's like the third :16 I've had today" and of course catching that rare lucky single. Running session, though... I'll let those break me nearly every chance.


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## pglewis (Jul 18, 2019)

Tom Joad said:


> Within a day I sourced seven f2l algs which I wasn’t using, which I am now drilling, It will take quite some time to incorporate these into my solves. Slow solves seems like the only way to do this.



I'd love to hear some of the top ones you've dug up. 

Still working on "edge in wrong slot / corner in U face" cases here. I can only handle one or two tweaks to my F2L at a time and it does take a lot of solves to get the changes worked into the the routine so that's been my "new thing" for weeks. I've also recently traded triple-sexy for (U R U' R')x3 and equivalent for all for slots, which isn't automatic yet but it feels more ergonomic for me.


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## Tom Joad (Jul 18, 2019)

pglewis said:


> I'd love to hear some of the top ones you've dug up.
> 
> Still working on "edge in wrong slot / corner in U face" cases here. I can only handle one or two tweaks to my F2L at a time and it does take a lot of solves to get the changes worked into the the routine so that's been my "new thing" for weeks. I've also recently traded triple-sexy for (U R U' R')x3 and equivalent for all for slots, which isn't automatic yet but it feels more ergonomic for me.



I made the same trade a year or so ago, definitely prefer starting with U, glad I switched. Like you say, strange at first but worth it in the end.

Regarding learning new f2l tricks I didn’t know, I will just post one at a time with a photo and the algorithm, can’t do any harm even if everyone else was using them already. Will take months for me to integrate recognition with muscle memory of drilled alg (coupled with unlearning whatever inefficient thing I was doing before)

I’ll start tomorrow...


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## Tom Joad (Jul 19, 2019)

First up one I’ve never used in a solve yet but it’s my favourite one and I can’t wait to start recognising it as it will be a sub 0.5 f2l pair. To solve the blue orange pair in the back.

SR’S’

RU’R’ -rotate-insert is far less effcient.

If you are not comfortable with S moves, learn the oll32 case which begins with S. It will quickly become one of your favourites once you try the “S push” a few (hundred) times.

Can also use yL’RU’R’L if you are facing that way. Again this is more efficient than rotate-RU’R’

Notice that the three move insert from this angle would be MF’M’ but that seems fingertrick unfriendly to me.


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## Oldmancfop (Jul 19, 2019)

pglewis said:


> I'd love to hear some of the top ones you've dug up.
> 
> Still working on "edge in wrong slot / corner in U face" cases here. I can only handle one or two tweaks to my F2L at a time and it does take a lot of solves to get the changes worked into the the routine so that's been my "new thing" for weeks. I've also recently traded triple-sexy for (U R U' R')x3 and equivalent for all for slots, which isn't automatic yet but it feels more ergonomic for me.



Nice, U R U' R' feels much smoother for the pairs in the front. Dammit another habit I need to try and get rid of.


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## Oldmancfop (Jul 19, 2019)

Tom Joad said:


> First up one I’ve never used in a solve yet but it’s my favourite one and I can’t wait to start recognising it as it will be a sub 0.5 f2l pair. To solve the blue orange pair in the back.
> 
> SR’S’
> 
> ...



The way I have been solving this pair is: U2 R' U R U2 R2 F R F' R is this uncommon/wrong?


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## Oldmancfop (Jul 19, 2019)

I'm constantly trying to get to grips with look ahead, but I am struggling to find my next pair when the corners are in the bottom layer, even when they are in the front (I seem unable to tear my eyes from the top layer). Anyone got any tricks/advice or is this just a case of keep practicing it will/might come eventually.


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## pglewis (Jul 19, 2019)

Tom Joad said:


> First up one I’ve never used in a solve yet but it’s my favourite one and I can’t wait to start recognising it as it will be a sub 0.5 f2l pair. To solve the blue orange pair in the back.
> 
> SR’S’
> 
> ...



That's pure awesome and brand new to me because I haven't delved deeply into the "corner in wrong slot" cases yet. Recognition will be the tricky part. 

Thankfully I'm comfortable with S slices. I've used them in my U perms from the very beginning, starting AUF with the 3-bar on the left. The primary U perm algs I ran across at that time opened and closed with an F2 which was very awkward for me and I decided R2 was far preferable. I still exclusively use those to this day. 

I'm also incorporating an S slice tweak for R U R' inserts to avoid dot cases and add a little edge orientation control in general. In the past I would just do the insert because connecting them, moving them, and then sledge inserting the pair isn't always a win. S' (R U R') S might be worth it however.


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## pglewis (Jul 19, 2019)

Oldmancfop said:


> Dammit another habit I need to try and get rid of.



I doubt this ever goes away unless/until we decide we have no interest in improving . 



Oldmancfop said:


> The way I have been solving this pair is: U2 R' U R U2 R2 F R F' R is this uncommon/wrong?



The next best thing I know to do in this case is what Tom said: R U' R' (connects pair) - rotate - insert. 



Oldmancfop said:


> I'm constantly trying to get to grips with look ahead, but I am struggling to find my next pair when the corners are in the bottom layer, even when they are in the front (I seem unable to tear my eyes from the top layer). Anyone got any tricks/advice or is this just a case of keep practicing it will/might come eventually.



I rarely deal with corners in a slot during F2L yet unless it's the last slot (I at least know those cases well). While looking ahead, I want to spot a corner in the U layer as quickly as I can and then try to find its edge... hopefully before I've finished the insert in progress. I'm very bad at 2-sided recognition of corners; if the corner is in a slot with the bottom color on the bottom I'm never sure if it's actually a bottom corner or top corner without peeking and burning time. I pretty much deal with corner in wrong slot cases by immediately taking the corner out and evaluating whatever new case I just created. It's far less efficient but typically faster for me until I put in the time to learn those specific cases. Definitely my Achilles heel during F2L right now, running into two of those cases with no corners in the U layer really drags a solve down for me. 

For lookahead practice: everyone says to do blind pair solving drills. Spot your case, close your eyes, solve the case, repeat. I think I would rather undergo unnecessary dental surgery than do drills, so when I say my lookahead is taking a really long time to develop... is there any wonder? lol


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## Mike Hughey (Jul 19, 2019)

I was going to post this on the WR skewb single thread, but decided it was really inappropriate to post it there. But I figured it's probably okay here, so I decided to put it here.

The skewb scramble that gave Andrew Huang the WR at Worlds (0.93 second): 
R U L' R B U' B' U L U R'

Why I am so bad at skewb:
I did this scramble 12 times for an average of 12. Same scramble every time, full 15 seconds inspection, using stackmat.
average of 12: 2.75 (σ = 0.32) [2.64, 3.02, 3.39, 2.43, 2.51, 2.38, 2.64, 4.74(LOL), 2.97, 2.93, 2.32, 2.62]
best single: 2.32 (I'm convinced I could sub-2 this eventually, but every time I had some type of at least minor pseudo-lockup.)

Yeah, I'm just that bad at skewb.  It's a bizarre miracle that I've qualified for skewb for US Nationals. Truly I shouldn't be allowed to compete.

Curious how others of you can do at this.


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## chtiger (Jul 19, 2019)

Mike Hughey said:


> Curious how others of you can do at this.


ao12: 2.05 = 2.22, (1.79), 1.86, (2.40), 1.98, 2.33, 1.85, 2.37, 2.18, 2.07, 1.81, 1.86

.93 is amazing to me, and there were also lots of low 1's, and this wasn't even the fast group. There's not an event where the records even seem humanly possible, yet they continue to get broken.


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## wer2chosen (Jul 20, 2019)

Hello Marcel.
I myself am 55 years old. I had a Rubik's cube in the 80's, but could only solve it by taking it apart and putting it back together. I recently picked it up to help slow down the progression of MS that is negatively impacting the muscles in my hands. I am home bound now, so Cubing has been a great diversion for me. 
My current goal is to get below 2.5 minutes as a PB. I wonder if I am one of the oldest to learn to solve the cube? LOL


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## Tom Joad (Jul 20, 2019)

I was never using this one for four years but now I’m just starting to recognise it in slow solves.

Awkward finger tricks at first but definitely the way to go, five moves only. If you want to see execution, I think it is on the jperm f2l video which has all the cases. However, I drag back the penultimate move with my right hand, whereas he does a lefty push back.

R’u’R’uR

Notice they are wide u moves. Oh, it’s the green red pair and the edge is front left.


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## Tom Joad (Jul 21, 2019)

Oldmancfop said:


> Nice, U R U' R' feels much smoother for the pairs in the front. Dammit another habit I need to try and get rid of.





pglewis said:


> I'd love to hear some of the top ones you've dug up.
> 
> Still working on "edge in wrong slot / corner in U face" cases here. I can only handle one or two tweaks to my F2L at a time and it does take a lot of solves to get the changes worked into the the routine so that's been my "new thing" for weeks. I've also recently traded triple-sexy for (U R U' R')x3 and equivalent for all for slots, which isn't automatic yet but it feels more ergonomic for me.



Jperms latest video (today) is all about why this is good for the front but triple sexy is still better for the back slots. Most of what he says will just reaffirm what you already know but I still learnt a trick or two.

Keeping the hands in home grip as much as possible is the way to go to shave off a few more seconds!


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## Tom Joad (Jul 21, 2019)

Now the red green corner is solved and we just need to move the edge in to place.

R’u’RuR

Another one I haven’t incorporated into real solves yet but will keep staring at it and drilling until it starts to happen...


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## pglewis (Jul 22, 2019)

Tom Joad said:


> Jperms latest video (today) is all about why this is good for the front but triple sexy is still better for the back slots. Most of what he says will just reaffirm what you already know but I still learnt a trick or two.



Great heads-up on that video, I've been realizing that regrips are really starting to matter now. Yet more bad habits to break even on F2L pairs I'm solving correctly otherwise.


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## efattah (Jul 22, 2019)

Another trick I picked up during the year of untimed solves was something probably most people know but forget to do. And that is to tilt the cube left/right/forward back while executing any algorithm, this allows you to lookahead and see more parts of the cube, while otherwise the algorithm is executed from muscle memory. This habit of rapid tilting has a dramatic effect on lookahead and you can train yourself to perform pre-programmed tilt sequences during algorithms (the ideal tilts vary by the current finger trick you are doing). You can try a random algorithm and you will find that certain tilts have no effect on algorithm speed, and those are the tilts you can do while doing that particular algorithm.


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## Logiqx (Jul 23, 2019)

Mike Hughey said:


> I was going to post this on the WR skewb single thread, but decided it was really inappropriate to post it there. But I figured it's probably okay here, so I decided to put it here.
> 
> The skewb scramble that gave Andrew Huang the WR at Worlds (0.93 second):
> R U L' R B U' B' U L U R'
> ...



I didn't have the exact scramble but I knew it was a U-Perm and did the same myself on 12 July.

I did a couple of 1.6x solves then pulled out a camera and got a 1.50:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1604105099735401/permalink/1902350499910858/

Doing it in competition would be another matter.


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## SpartanSailor (Jul 23, 2019)

@Logiqx @Mike Hughey 
Yeah, you both have me beat! I too qualified for US Nats with Skewb with a time I posted over a year ago... I’m awful with Skewb and hope to have some result that’s not just embarrassing.


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## SpartanSailor (Jul 23, 2019)

Incidentally, for the US Oldies... how many of us are headed to US Nationals in Baltimore? I recognise a few of our names, but seems like the crew at Worlds had a nice group picture. I certainly can’t speak for others, but I would enjoy meeting up for a dinner or picture or something while we are all in Baltimore. 

I’m competing in 333, 222, Skewb, & 3BLD


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## Mike Hughey (Jul 23, 2019)

I intend to be there - I hope I can meet with everyone there. But I should warn you - at the moment I'm planning on probably only being there on Thursday and Friday. We're visiting my parents (who live in Virginia), and I really want to spend more time with them if possible, so I think I'm only going to do the first two days. My biggest regret for missing Saturday is not getting to finish a Fewest Moves mean. I will also somewhat regret missing 3BLD, but I'm not very good at 3BLD these days, so it's not that big of a loss. My only regret for missing Sunday is 4BLD, but I'm realistically not good enough for that to matter much anyway. 

I'm mainly there hoping to say hello to a bunch of people, and TRY to get semi-respectable results at 5BLD and multiBLD. But in order to do the latter, I need to start getting more sleep than I've been getting lately. 

If we're going to meet up for dinner and I'm included, it would have to be Thursday or Friday.


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## SpartanSailor (Jul 23, 2019)

I’ll be on staff too... so I’ll be there every day. 

I don’t have high expectations for 3BLD although that is my favourite event of the ones I’m competing. 

Nevertheless. Hopefully we can pull something together Friday then when ya most likely to have the most people in town.


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## Bantler (Jul 23, 2019)

What the hell are these magnets I'm hearing about and where do you put them and why???!!!


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## One Wheel (Jul 23, 2019)

Bantler said:


> What the hell are these magnets I'm hearing about and where do you put them and why???!!!


They go in the edges and corners, so that when the cube is in cube shape (as opposed to mid-turn) there is additional friction holding the cube in that shape. To a lesser extent they also pull, so that if the cube is close to aligned the magnets help align it. They are very helpful, especially for higher-order puzzles.


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## Tabe (Jul 24, 2019)

Bantler said:


> What the hell are these magnets I'm hearing about and where do you put them and why???!!!


To follow up on One Wheel's excellent answer - the placement of the magnets (and size and strength and so on) matters a lot. You have to make sure polarity is correct and so on. It's actually very easy to magnetize a 3x3, more challenging to do higher-order cubes (since they're harder to reassemble).


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## One Wheel (Jul 24, 2019)

Tabe said:


> more challenging to do higher-order cubes (since they're harder to reassemble).



Higher order cubes are easier to assemble with magnets than without, though, so if you get a pop on a big cube you should probably just add magnets before reassembling. ;-P


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## efattah (Jul 25, 2019)

New 3x3 Ao5 PB today, 13.17. I think it is time to pull out the video camera and start videoing solves again

Generated By csTimer on 2019-07-25
avg of 5: 13.17

Time List:
1. 13.23 U L2 F L2 F' L2 R2 B D2 F' U R B2 F D' F L R' U2 
2. 13.49 F' B' R B' L2 U' L' B2 R2 D2 B' R2 B U2 D2 L2 B L2 U' F 
3. (14.87) R' D' F' D' F2 U2 F2 D' B2 U' L2 F2 R2 F L' F L2 B U2 R2 
4. (12.47) D B U2 B2 F2 U' L2 F2 D2 L2 D' F2 D' B2 F' U' L' F D2 U2 F2 
5. 12.80 U' D' F' U R' L U B U2 B2 R' B2 R2 U2 L B2 U2 R D2 L2 F'

Happened after struggling with a poorly functioning Gan 356X, getting super frustrated, finally adding a bit of lube, and then suddenly enjoying the absence of lockups.


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## mark49152 (Jul 27, 2019)

Mini comp report from Leeds Open 2019.

5BLD - started with a 13:17 success, PR by 8 seconds and first official success since 2017! That was a long time coming and felt good. I fantasized briefly about getting a mean, but messed up the second solve by having a brainfart during the parity alg. Rushed the third solve hoping for another PR, and lost the plot somewhere.

3BLD - started with a tense 1:07 and relaxed knowing that should be enough to make the final. Rushed the second going for a single PR but stumbled memo and got 1:02. Not caring about the mean, i rushed the third and got a 51 - not PR single but enough to get a PR mean of 1:00.47. Funny how I now care about the mean after the fact .

3BLD final - late in the day and I was tired, but it was nice to get a 59 single. That's two rounds with a sub-1, which makes me happy since my results so far in 2019 had been pretty poor. Full 3style now feels comfortable and I'm back to the speed and accuracy I had with advanced M2.

My splits on the 51 were 25/26 - time to work on my memo perhaps, since it has barely improved in the last 2 years!

Nice comp in a good venue, and great to catch up with @Shaky Hands and the UK contingent, as always! Good luck tomorrow!


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## Mike Hughey (Jul 29, 2019)

SpartanSailor said:


> Nevertheless. Hopefully we can pull something together Friday then when ya most likely to have the most people in town.


I guess all I can see on the list who are on this thread often are you, me, and Jae. It would be nice to actually spend some real time talking to you guys - I hope we can work something out.


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## mark49152 (Jul 29, 2019)

My 3BLD mean PB from the weekend:-


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## pglewis (Jul 29, 2019)

As I mentioned in the FB group my latest 3x3 fad has been VHLS in order to get some more advanced EO control in my tool belt. I know it's not going to provide a huge benefit on its own but I decided to take it on anyway because 1) there aren't many algs, 2) the algs are all fairly short, and 3) recognition is very very easy. 

The bigger story is the deeper rabbit hole it has sent me down on fundamentals: grip and finger tricks. I had already started to pay attention to keeping in neutral grip as much as possible during F2L in slow solves and drilling the VHLS algs seemed like a perfect exercise to work on that as well. 

The first problem to overcome is the lack of a U2' move with my left. I learned a lot of my algs with a right hand re-grip at the start to accommodate the fact that I could only do U2 with my right. Slowly examining what I do for U2 with my right made me realize I've been gripping too low on the back with my left ring finger. With smallish hands that makes it difficult or impossible to get a good flick with my middle finger for the 2nd turn. And just like that, now I have a usable U2' for the first time and a bazillion algs with a bad re-grip habit to break. 

Next up is the hope of smooth F/F' moves without a re-grip, I'd definitely like to get a workable sledgehammer without re-grips. It's a beautiful thing when the whole last slot + OLL flow nicely without a single re-grip. 

Regardless of whether or not I end up actually using VHLS much my F2L is going to be so much better once i break some of my instinctive right hand re-grips and am comfortable with the finger-trick alterations.


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## pglewis (Jul 29, 2019)

mark49152 said:


> My 3BLD mean PB from the weekend



Just so fun to watch that :51.


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## mark49152 (Jul 29, 2019)

pglewis said:


> Just so fun to watch that :51.


That one was a nice surprise when I lifted the blindfold - I expected worse. My memo is so much slower in competitions!


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## h2f (Jul 30, 2019)

I had first sub10 solve with 9.97 time. Scramble: D R2 L' U' B L' F B2 L' F2 L2 D2 B2 L2 U L2 U' R2 L2 U' R2 I cant reconstruct last two pairs. It was OLL skip I predicted with Ua perm.


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## Logiqx (Jul 30, 2019)

h2f said:


> I had first sub10 solve with 9.97 time. Scramble: D R2 L' U' B L' F B2 L' F2 L2 D2 B2 L2 U L2 U' R2 L2 U' R2 I cant reconstruct last two pairs. It was OLL skip I predicted with Ua perm.



Congratulations. It's quite a barrier for us oldies!


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## Logiqx (Jul 30, 2019)

I've added a page to the senior rankings, listing future competitions with senior competitors registered. Hopefully it will prove useful to people attending competitions and especially newcomers who might not know any of our little community. If you meet anybody who isn't on the list then it's also a great opportunity to share the group details! The registrations pages will be refreshed at the same time as the rankings themselves - i.e. several times a week. 

https://logiqx.github.io/wca-ipy/Future_Competitions.html


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## Tom Joad (Jul 30, 2019)

pglewis said:


> As I mentioned in the FB group my latest 3x3 fad has been VHLS in order to get some more advanced EO control in my tool belt. I know it's not going to provide a huge benefit on its own but I decided to take it on anyway because 1) there aren't many algs, 2) the algs are all fairly short, and 3) recognition is very very easy.
> 
> The bigger story is the deeper rabbit hole it has sent me down on fundamentals: grip and finger tricks. I had already started to pay attention to keeping in neutral grip as much as possible during F2L in slow solves and drilling the VHLS algs seemed like a perfect exercise to work on that as well.
> 
> ...



1. I know exactly what you mean with that holding too low with the left hand at the back. I never really fixed this per se but instead just do minor adjustments during the solve when lefty U2 comes up.

2. I’ve never sorted a regripless sledgehammer. I can’t even imagine how this works. Everyone regrips for the F’ at the end right?


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## pglewis (Jul 30, 2019)

Tom Joad said:


> I’ve never sorted a regripless sledgehammer. I can’t even imagine how this works. Everyone regrips for the F’ at the end right?



It's still awkward, I'm not sure I can explain it well, and everyone's hands are different... but I may have something workable using index finger over the top. My main issue is keeping the S slice from moving which I'm attempting with the opposite hand either with my pinky on the bottom, index on top, or a combination to keep it stable. Thumbs on front held lightly to hold position and allow the F face to turn.


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## Logiqx (Jul 31, 2019)

Logiqx said:


> I've added a page to the senior rankings, listing future competitions with senior competitors registered. Hopefully it will prove useful to people attending competitions and especially newcomers who might not know any of our little community. If you meet anybody who isn't on the list then it's also a great opportunity to share the group details! The registrations pages will be refreshed at the same time as the rankings themselves - i.e. several times a week.
> 
> https://logiqx.github.io/wca-ipy/Future_Competitions.html



This page now includes competitions which use external websites for registration:

zawody4event.pl
speedcubing.pl
cubingchina.com
cubing-tw.net
cubecomp.de
speedcubing.nz
canadiancubing.com
I think this covers the vast majority of competitions that use external websites for registration.

Please let me know if any others need to be supported in the future.


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## 40yearstosolve (Jul 31, 2019)

Hi everyone, not sure if any of you remember me, but I was here a lot when recovering from being poorly last year. Normal life resumed that meant the cube didn't see any action for what must be nearly a year. My eldest picked a cube up again yesterday and we all started back up again.

Tell you what, returning to the cube after such a long gap is an odd experience, everything feels unfamiliar but familiar at the same time. After a few hours of reading our old notes and some hiccups along the way and we are nearly back to sub 2 minute solves again.

I'll tackle iF2L at some later point 

Anyway, thought it'd be nice to say Hi and also say thanks for all the help you gave me last year, I see some familiar names in the latest thread updates  ..I hope you are all doing well, healthy and happy.


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## pglewis (Jul 31, 2019)

Tom Joad said:


> I’ve never sorted a regripless sledgehammer. I can’t even imagine how this works. Everyone regrips for the F’ at the end right?



I'll see if I can get this on camera in the next week or two, I'm already convinced I can make this work. Adjusting to this new stuff is going to seriously slow me down for as much as a couple months but once the new habits are instinctive it's gonna be a huge boon for my solves.


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## Tom Joad (Jul 31, 2019)

pglewis said:


> I'll see if I can get this on camera in the next week or two, I'm already convinced I can make this work. Adjusting to this new stuff is going to seriously slow me down for as much as a couple months but once the new habits are instinctive it's gonna be a huge boon for my solves.



Cool, I hear you. I’ve put my timer away and I’m just incorporating all the edge and corner in the wrong slot f2ls into my slow solves now... will take months but I’m up for the challenge.

Many steps back to eventually take an extra one forward but the long game is where it is at!

Ao50 of 13 seconds is my target... one day... then I get an official sub 10 when the planets align... haha


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## defhacks (Aug 1, 2019)

pglewis said:


> I'll see if I can get this on camera in the next week or two, I'm already convinced I can make this work. Adjusting to this new stuff is going to seriously slow me down for as much as a couple months but once the new habits are instinctive it's gonna be a huge boon for my solves.



Sounds similar to: 



It's both inspiring and frustrating how easy he makes it look..

Must be that amazing Aolong V2 hardware he's using


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## JohnnyReggae (Aug 1, 2019)

After a bunch of untimed blind solves and a few timed DNF's I finally managed to get a timed blind success. I'm still struggling with memo and always have to go back to corners after doing edges just to remind myself what I memo'd during corners in the first place. It is a little frustrating because if I eliminated the double memo I could instantly drop a couple minutes off the times. I did manage to follow it up with another success albeit a little slower, still a success.

Still chuffed non the less


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## pglewis (Aug 1, 2019)

defhacks said:


> Sounds similar to:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Always so fun watching him and just shaking my head. 

In a quick watch it seems like he's mostly using thumb over the top for F/F'. Also, being Collin Burns, he's faster doing weird things than I am with regripless 2-gen . I'm comfortable with thumb from the top or bottom but there are lots of cases I would like to be able to do F face turns while leaving the thumbs in place, thus this attempt to use the index fingers. 

Grip: thumbs front, ring fingers on the back, pinkies bracing the S layer; index and middle finger of both hands floating and free. At first I didn't trust stability on the S layer and the turns were tentative, awkward, and not very promising but with a little conscious attention to bracing with the opposite-hand pinky I was able to convince myself to just push down with the index and all will be ok. The exact grip is new and I don't have any muscle memory built up yet but if I'm in that position I definitely have workable, regripless sledge and hedgeslammer for front slots with it that land right back in neutral grip. 

I already added a lefty U2' to my toolbelt for the first time in over 3 years of speedsolving so my solves are already slightly broken for a little while; this is the perfect time to see if I can get the index F/F' turns into muscle memory as well. 



JohnnyReggae said:


> After a bunch of untimed blind solves and a few timed DNF's I finally managed to get a timed blind success. I'm still struggling with memo and always have to go back to corners after doing edges just to remind myself what I memo'd during corners in the first place. It is a little frustrating because if I eliminated the double memo I could instantly drop a couple minutes off the times. I did manage to follow it up with another success albeit a little slower, still a success.
> 
> Still chuffed non the less



Congrats! 

If your sticker-to-speffz translation (or whatever scheme) is slow then you'll trace slower and have to retain memo longer. One drill I've done is tracing as fast as I can, reciting the letters without any attempt to memorize. Corners are slower for me, that extra sticker pauses my brain. It comes together quickly with practice though, you'll surpass me at 3bld in no time with a little work.


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## JohnnyReggae (Aug 2, 2019)

pglewis said:


> Congrats!
> 
> If your sticker-to-speffz translation (or whatever scheme) is slow then you'll trace slower and have to retain memo longer. One drill I've done is tracing as fast as I can, reciting the letters without any attempt to memorize. Corners are slower for me, that extra sticker pauses my brain. It comes together quickly with practice though, you'll surpass me at 3bld in no time with a little work.


I should give this a try. My sticker translation is getting faster so hopefully with some more practice it will flow a lot quicker.


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## mark49152 (Aug 2, 2019)

JohnnyReggae said:


> After a bunch of untimed blind solves and a few timed DNF's I finally managed to get a timed blind success. I'm still struggling with memo and always have to go back to corners after doing edges just to remind myself what I memo'd during corners in the first place. It is a little frustrating because if I eliminated the double memo I could instantly drop a couple minutes off the times. I did manage to follow it up with another success albeit a little slower, still a success.


Going over memo again is fine. Generally it's better to revise it later, than spend ages on it in the first place. An initial memo plus 1-2 reviews is good (memo corners, memo edges, revise corners, revise edges, then optionally revise both again). Sounds a lot, but you'll spend less time on each step. Your speed will naturally improve.

The tracing practice method Phil suggested works well. It's good to break it down and understand where your bottlenecks are. If your bottleneck is tracing, sighted solving helps too. You can memo & solve 2-4 pieces at a time, so you get to practise tracing and your solving method without taxing your memory too hard.


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## JohnnyReggae (Aug 2, 2019)

mark49152 said:


> Going over memo again is fine. Generally it's better to revise it later, than spend ages on it in the first place. An initial memo plus 1-2 reviews is good (memo corners, memo edges, revise corners, revise edges, then optionally revise both again). Sounds a lot, but you'll spend less time on each step. Your speed will naturally improve.
> 
> The tracing practice method Phil suggested works well. It's good to break it down and understand where your bottlenecks are. If your bottleneck is tracing, sighted solving helps too. You can memo & solve 2-4 pieces at a time, so you get to practise tracing and your solving method without taxing your memory too hard.


Good to know that I'm actually on the right track then  I do think my corner memo recall is hampered by how long it takes to memo edges, so hopefully the faster that gets the less problem I'll have. I've been using word pairs for corners and audio for edges which seems to be working for me for now. As for execution I seem to get that right most times when doing untimed solves.


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## Tom Joad (Aug 2, 2019)

pglewis said:


> As I mentioned in the FB group my latest 3x3 fad has been VHLS in order to get some more advanced EO control in my tool belt. I know it's not going to provide a huge benefit on its own but I decided to take it on anyway because 1) there aren't many algs, 2) the algs are all fairly short, and 3) recognition is very very easy.
> 
> The bigger story is the deeper rabbit hole it has sent me down on fundamentals: grip and finger tricks. I had already started to pay attention to keeping in neutral grip as much as possible during F2L in slow solves and drilling the VHLS algs seemed like a perfect exercise to work on that as well.
> 
> ...



See latest jperm vid on which alg sets to bother with... only his opinion , of course.

I don’t even know what VHLS is and I still do no edge orientation when I insert my last pair... edit, I just watched the video and now I know what it is! Thought it was just an alternative to beetamax


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## mark49152 (Aug 2, 2019)

JohnnyReggae said:


> Good to know that I'm actually on the right track then  I do think my corner memo recall is hampered by how long it takes to memo edges, so hopefully the faster that gets the less problem I'll have. I've been using word pairs for corners and audio for edges which seems to be working for me for now. As for execution I seem to get that right most times when doing untimed solves.


I would recommend using images for both. Audio is short term, and at the times you're talking about, especially since you're having to review corners after edges, you'd probably fare better using longer term memory for edges too.


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## pglewis (Aug 2, 2019)

Tom Joad said:


> See latest jperm vid on which alg sets to bother with... only his opinion , of course.



I don't know if he's scanning this thread or just has a crystal ball.  Me: "I need to work on regrips"... 3 days later...

I think one reason VHLS is discouraged, and what JPerm seems to emphasize, is some people want to use it in lieu of learning full OLL and I wouldn't suggest that. There are already plenty of other documented and respected opinions on why not to bother with it, my main reasons to go ahead and swim upstream:

The alg count is tiny. For connected pair there are 7 unsolved cases. One is standard insert, one is sledgehammer; that leaves just 5 more to cover all connected pair cases (if mirroring). R U R' cases are just 6 more (plus mirrors), since normal insert is one case. I had it learned in two days of drilling, it wasn't a huge investment if I drop it and never use it again. 
I think this is highly overlooked: it's not only useful on last slot, it has value for general edge control. If I notice a misoriented F2L edge in the target slot I have options to flip it during the insert. I have no real metrics but I've had a "fair number" of solves where I was able to use it to fix up EO on the 2nd or 3rd pair and thus rotationless for the rest of the solve. 
OCLLs (all edges oriented) are among my fastest OLLs. What's the worst of the bunch, Pi? Maybe H? It would be rare to twiddle my way into a worse case than a normal insert would have given me, bypassing 6 move T and P OLLs are the only ones that come to mind. OTOH: my OCLL recognition is very good compared to OLL in general, I can do S/AS/H from any angle without AUF and can mirror all the rest, almost all of them are 2-gen, and I can do all of them regripless. The payoff on last slot isn't all that great but it's not awful either. 
It's a four-case subset of ZBLS, so everyone that uses ZBLS in order to use more ZBLL had to learn 'em. 
This should probably be listed first: it's fun for me at the moment
I think the best argument against it is it's contrary to the CFOP philosophy, as I see it: leveraging the fact that brute force is often faster for one-time problems vs. more fancy, elegant approaches. VHLS recognition is nearly as easy as 2-look OLL and only requires looking at the edges on top... but it _does_ add an extra look, slight as it might be. 



Tom Joad said:


> Thought it was just an alternative to beetamax


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## JohnnyReggae (Aug 3, 2019)

mark49152 said:


> I would recommend using images for both. Audio is short term, and at the times you're talking about, especially since you're having to review corners after edges, you'd probably fare better using longer term memory for edges too.


To be honest I seem to have better recall with the audio than with the images. Typically I come across 3 to 4 word pairs with corners and 5 to 7 for edges and my edge recall is always better than corners. I've thought about using audio for corners as well, but I'm going to persevere with the images for now.


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## pglewis (Aug 3, 2019)

JohnnyReggae said:


> To be honest I seem to have better recall with the audio than with the images. Typically I come across 3 to 4 word pairs with corners and 5 to 7 for edges and my edge recall is always better than corners. I've thought about using audio for corners as well, but I'm going to persevere with the images for now.



My experiments with audio memo have been... let's just call it "less than promising" lol. I think if you're accurate enough with audio for edges already it's awesome, conjuring images is just one more thing to slow my memo personally. At least for 3bld. If you have an interest in mbld you'll need to use images to retain it unless you're some sort of audio memory savant.


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## JohnnyReggae (Aug 5, 2019)

pglewis said:


> My experiments with audio memo have been... let's just call it "less than promising" lol. I think if you're accurate enough with audio for edges already it's awesome, conjuring images is just one more thing to slow my memo personally. At least for 3bld. If you have an interest in mbld you'll need to use images to retain it unless you're some sort of audio memory savant.


Multiblind is something to keep in mind and is something I'd like to pursue like doing 4bld as well. I struggle with mental images and recalling them tends to be tricky. It could also just need more practice just like everything  

I'm keen to start exploring 4bld just because I think it is a lot harder than 3bld but something that is attainable. I mean Stanley Chapel just got a new WR 4bld of 1:06 and some change ... so how hard can it be


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## mark49152 (Aug 5, 2019)

JohnnyReggae said:


> Multiblind is something to keep in mind and is something I'd like to pursue like doing 4bld as well. I struggle with mental images and recalling them tends to be tricky. It could also just need more practice just like everything
> 
> I'm keen to start exploring 4bld just because I think it is a lot harder than 3bld but something that is attainable. I mean Stanley Chapel just got a new WR 4bld of 1:06 and some change ... so how hard can it be


4BLD is great fun and IMHO just the right size for an oldie like me . It's not as long-winded and tiring as 5BLD, and is more forgiving than 3BLD where even a small pause or fumble makes the difference between a good and bad solve.

Regarding audio versus images, do whatever works for you, I guess - each to their own. I use "audio" for 4BLD centres, which is typically 15-18 letters, a bit more than 3BLD edges, and my tracing is a bit slower than edges. For those reasons it's rare that I can remember it without a review, and whenever I review audio, I tend to visualise the letters/spelling, and it ceases to be pure audio memo - which is why I put it in quotes.

If you're struggling with image-based memo, you could try something like memoryleague.com. That has a training mode where you're presented with 30 images and have to memorize their order in 30 seconds. It's great for getting the brain used to quickly associating and ordering fairly random things. I use my MBLD rooms for it .


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## SpartanSailor (Aug 5, 2019)

Mike Hughey said:


> I guess all I can see on the list who are on this thread often are you, me, and Jae. It would be nice to actually spend some real time talking to you guys - I hope we can work something out.


It was nice to see you and Jae Friday evening! Glad dinner worked out so we could chat. 

I’m home now and trying to remember our discussion about comms for 4BLD centres.

Is there somewhere to find a reference with the comms listed? I think it’s going to take some time to understand the interchange and stuff, but suspect after that it’ll come easier. I’m going to try to learn centres the way you and Jae described... I’m sold with solving two at a time. Although, I’ll have to learn how to deal with parity later. Right now it’s a lot to process, so I’m going to just learn centres first and from there.


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## openseas (Aug 5, 2019)

SpartanSailor said:


> It was nice to see you and Jae Friday evening! Glad dinner worked out so we could chat.
> 
> I’m home joe and trying to remember our discussion about comms for 4BLD centres.
> 
> Is there somewhere to find a reference with the comms listed? I think it’s going to take some time to understand the interchange and stuff, but suspect after that it’ll come easier. I’m going to try to learn centres the way you and Jae described... I’m sold with solving two at a time. Although, I’ll have to learn how to deal with parity later. Right now it’s a lot to process, so I’m going to just learn centres first and from there.



It was a blast for me. I broke #SeniorNAR for 3BLD single with 55.1, a PR for 4BLD with 8:46.55. Could have been a mean and good PR but first two attempts were 1 center cycle off (inverse comm, I guess), especially the first one with 6:46. 

US Nats organization was super, ran efficiently and smooth. Running a huge competition itself was more organized than Worlds (both of them were great in almost every aspects but the way Nats organized staffs were more efficient. You can't just buy the experience )

The most memorable thing was being able to meet our fellow senior cubers, @Mike Hughey & @SpartanSailor . Hope we can do more frequently in near future. 

Regarding 4BLD, below link is the one we recommended: Daniel's 4BLD center. You don't need a list - go through this video and try to come up with your own for center. Comms for centers are too many if you treat them as algs but much easier if you come up with intuitively then optimize later.


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## SpartanSailor (Aug 6, 2019)

4BLD centres question: 
What are “floating buffers”? I guess that’s more of a general blind question, but let me narrow the scope of the response I’m looking to get.
I’ve still got a LOT to do with learning centre comms for 4BLD (having just started yesterday), but already notice a potential problem with my buffer (Ubl). I can do setup moves to get the sides and event he back (and bottom in some cases). But what about when my buffer is solved? Is it okay to just switch to another buffer and use different interchanges/insertions? Or is it better to do U/U’ as part of the setup and stick with the same buffer throughout?


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## openseas (Aug 6, 2019)

SpartanSailor said:


> 4BLD centres question:
> What are “floating buffers”? I guess that’s more of a general blind question, but let me narrow the scope of the response I’m looking to get.
> I’ve still got a LOT to do with learning centre comms for 4BLD (having just started yesterday), but already notice a potential problem with my buffer (Ubl). I can do setup moves to get the sides and event he back (and bottom in some cases). But what about when my buffer is solved? Is it okay to just switch to another buffer and use different interchanges/insertions? Or is it better to do U/U’ as part of the setup and stick with the same buffer throughout?



Let's say your UBL/UBR/UFR/UFL is A/B/C/D, your original buffer is UBL. 
1) If it is solved, treat like a normal 3BLD, meaning start a new cycle break. Whatever target you started a new cycle, you'll get there when the cycle break ends.
2) You can float, meaning make a U', then your original B becomes your UBL. Then, you can start a normal cycle. But when that cycle ends, you have to do "U" to return to your original position.

I started #2 option but realized that I often forgot to unsetup floating (in the above example, U). So, I'm doing #1 now. If you use commutators and run into U face color, you can shoot to B/C/D instead of starting a new cycle. If you shoot all U faces, you rarely need to start a new cycle, mostly centers can be solved with one long cycle.


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## SpartanSailor (Aug 6, 2019)

openseas said:


> Let's say your UBL/UBR/UFR/UFL is A/B/C/D, your original buffer is UBL.
> 1) If it is solved, treat like a normal 3BLD, meaning start a new cycle break. Whatever target you started a new cycle, you'll get there when the cycle break ends.
> 2) You can float, meaning make a U', then your original B becomes your UBL. Then, you can start a normal cycle. But when that cycle ends, you have to do "U" to return to your original position.
> 
> I started #2 option but realized that I often forgot to unsetup floating (in the above example, U). So, I'm doing #1 now. If you use commutators and run into U face color, you can shoot to B/C/D instead of starting a new cycle. If you shoot all U faces, you rarely need to start a new cycle, mostly centers can be solved with one long cycle.


Makes sense. My preference would be #1. But I am not sure how to do a U-face commutator. I’ve figured out how to D-face exchanges, but sometimes it seems like I just solved 1 piece, rather than the two I had in mind—Obviously, I’m making a mistake with the interchange or the insertion.


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## mark49152 (Aug 6, 2019)

SpartanSailor said:


> 4BLD centres question:
> What are “floating buffers”? I guess that’s more of a general blind question, but let me narrow the scope of the response I’m looking to get.
> I’ve still got a LOT to do with learning centre comms for 4BLD (having just started yesterday), but already notice a potential problem with my buffer (Ubl). I can do setup moves to get the sides and event he back (and bottom in some cases). But what about when my buffer is solved? Is it okay to just switch to another buffer and use different interchanges/insertions? Or is it better to do U/U’ as part of the setup and stick with the same buffer throughout?


I try to avoid ever having a cycle break on centres, by solving the U face pieces last on every other side. If I do end up solving all U pieces before all other faces are solved, I'll insert those other pieces into the memo somewhere rather than start a new cycle. If I have a solved buffer at the start, I just solve the diagonally opposite piece first (U2).


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## SpartanSailor (Aug 6, 2019)

Case in point... how would I do this? I’m pointing to my buffer.


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## openseas (Aug 6, 2019)

SpartanSailor said:


> Makes sense. My preference would be #1. But I am not sure how to do a U-face commutator. I’ve figured out how to D-face exchanges, but sometimes it seems like I just solved 1 piece, rather than the two I had in mind—Obviously, I’m making a mistake with the interchange or the insertion.



Ubl vs Ubr : this is an interchange by U/U'. All you need to do is an insert to Ubr position.
For example, your Rfd is the target and you want to shoot to Ubr, then, r d r' will be the insert (Rfd goes to Ubr), U will be the interchange (Ubl goes to Ubr). So, try [r d r', U] = r d r' U r' d' r U' and see how it goes.


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## openseas (Aug 6, 2019)

SpartanSailor said:


> Case in point... how would I do this? I’m pointing to my buffer.



1st green to Fur: f' u f (insert to Ufr position = C) U2 (interchange) f' u' f U2 (inverse).
2nd green to Fdr: b' d b (insert to Ubr position = B) U (interchange) b' d' b U' (inverse)


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## SpartanSailor (Aug 6, 2019)

Any good way to track 4BLD centres comms for learning purposes? I’ve been really enjoying working them out, but now think it’s best to have some organised way to work them so I know when I’ve figured something out for each. 

I’m guessing just learn find something for each possible letter pair?


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## openseas (Aug 7, 2019)

SpartanSailor said:


> Any good way to track 4BLD centres comms for learning purposes? I’ve been really enjoying working them out, but now think it’s best to have some organised way to work them so I know when I’ve figured something out for each.
> 
> I’m guessing just learn find something for each possible letter pair?


I saw your post in FB blindgroup - why Ubr? Was it typo for Ubl?

Anyway, easiest way to think about front face vs bottom layer, setup bottom piece to back layer and use one of the following:
(Ubl buffer)
1) Ful - Bur - Ubl: r' U2 r (insert) u2 (interchange) r' U2 r' u2 (inverse)
2) Fdl - Bdr - Ubl: r' U r (insert) u2 (interchange) r' U' r u2 (inverse)

For example,
1) if you have Ful-Drb-Ubl, setup Drb to Bur by r', then do #1
2) if you have Fdl-Drf-Ubl, setup Drf to Bdr by r', then do #2

You can setup any of front face target using F/F'/F2 to one of above, same goes to D layer with D/D'/D2.

Once you understand these, then, you can use Rw trick to make things easier but will explain to you later (after you understand comms better)


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## SpartanSailor (Aug 7, 2019)

openseas said:


> I saw your post in FB blindgroup - why Ubr? Was it typo for Ubl?
> 
> Anyway, easiest way to think about front face vs bottom layer, setup bottom piece to back layer and use one of the following:
> (Ubl buffer)
> ...


Not a typo... I use the top-back-left for my buffer. I’m sure there are better, bu that is the one that seems most natural to me. So I’ve been working comms using that.... 

Am i understanding your explaination to say you use the back face and the buffer position as the insert?


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## openseas (Aug 7, 2019)

SpartanSailor said:


> Not a typo... I use the top-back-left for my buffer. I’m sure there are better, bu that is the one that seems most natural to me. So I’ve been working comms using that....
> 
> Am i understanding your explaination to say you use the back face and the buffer position as the insert?



Top-back-left IS Ubl, lol


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## SpartanSailor (Aug 7, 2019)

openseas said:


> Top-back-left IS Ubl, lol


Lol... I guess I’m destined for failure. I meant top back RIGHT


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## openseas (Aug 7, 2019)

SpartanSailor said:


> Lol... I guess I’m destined for failure. I meant top back RIGHT



4BLD center is X-center, 5BLD has X-center (X position) and T-center.

X-center is similar to corners while T-center is similar to edge. Even some comms are similar. I highly recommend to use the same buffer you're using for3BLD corner for 4BLD center. If you use UBL for 3BLD corner, then, you'd better using Ubl.


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## SpartanSailor (Aug 7, 2019)

openseas said:


> 4BLD center is X-center, 5BLD has X-center (X position) and T-center.
> 
> X-center is similar to corners while T-center is similar to edge. Even some comms are similar. I highly recommend to use the same buffer you're using for3BLD corner for 4BLD center. If you use UBL for 3BLD corner, then, you'd better using Ubl.


For 3BLD corners I use LBU— the left face, back Top corner. 

Are you saying that I should do similarly for 4BLD centres and use UBL?


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## openseas (Aug 7, 2019)

SpartanSailor said:


> For 3BLD corners I use LBU— the left face, back Top corner.
> 
> Are you saying that I should do similarly for 4BLD centres and use UBL?



Man, that's a weird buffer, please switch your buffer to U face one. That has quite a big impact when you switch to 3-style.


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## mark49152 (Aug 7, 2019)

SpartanSailor said:


> Case in point... how would I do this? I’m pointing to my buffer.


I would do this as AK CJ speffz. 

AK - [U', l' d2 l]
CJ - [U: [U, l' u2 l]]


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## SpartanSailor (Aug 7, 2019)

openseas said:


> Man, that's a weird buffer, please switch your buffer to U face one. That has quite a big impact when you switch to 3-style.


That’s how I learned OP corners. With the left sticker on the back upper corner.... if I switch to the top sticker, all my set ups will change! Lol


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## muchacho (Aug 11, 2019)

Hi! I haven't posted for a while, probably because I didn't cubed much either in 2019, but I'm practising a bit more now.

I'm around 1 second slower at 3x3 than 9 months ago, and 2-3 at OH... but I just got lucky and got a OH PB single.

17749 Aug 11, 2019 4:50:52 PM 00:15.136 U L2 U2 L2 U R2 U2 F2 L2 F2 U B' D' R L F D2 F' R2 F U2

(Old PB was 15.483 from Nov-18)



Spoiler



x' y'
L U L' Uw U M U' M' U2 Lw U Lw' U' L2 z2
U2 Lw U' L' U2 L' U L
U R U R' U R U2' R'
U M' U M'
U' M' U2 M'
U' M2 U' M U2 M'

44 STM
2.91 tps

https://alg.cubing.net/?setup=U_L2_U2_L2_U_R2_U2_F2_L2_F2_U_B-_D-_R_L_F_D2_F-_R2_F_U2&alg=x-_y- L_U_L-_Uw_U_M_U-_M-_U2_Lw_U_Lw-_U-_L2_z2 U2_Lw_U-_L-_U2_L-_U_L U_R_U_R-_U_R_U2-_R- U_M-_U_M- U-_M-_U2_M- U-_M2_U-_M_U2_M-


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## pglewis (Aug 11, 2019)

I still have a lot grip changes to incorporate but my 3x3 times are slowly getting back to normal on this first wave of adjustments. A bit of a surprise to break my Ao5 today with an 18.23: 17.72, (16.71), (23.30), 18.76, 18.21. This after seeming being unable to get a sub 20 at all just a few days ago. It's still all down to lookahead but I'm definitely seeing improvement now when the lookahead _is_ cooperating.


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## SpartanSailor (Aug 11, 2019)

pglewis said:


> I still have a lot grip changes to incorporate but my 3x3 times are slowly getting back to normal on this first wave of adjustments. A bit of a surprise to break my Ao5 today with an 18.23: 17.72, (16.71), (23.30), 18.76, 18.21. This after seeming being unable to get a sub 20 at all just a few days ago. It's still all down to lookahead but I'm definitely seeing improvement now when the lookahead _is_ cooperating.


My lookahead comes and goes. When it’s working for me times are encouraging. When, however, it’s NOT working for me it’s apparent.


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## pglewis (Aug 11, 2019)

SpartanSailor said:


> My lookahead comes and goes. When it’s working for me times are encouraging. When, however, it’s NOT working for me it’s apparent.



Yeah, one indicator is my guess of the time before looking. When the lookahead is clicking I'm surprised by some effortless 18s and even 17s sometimes. When it isn't, I finish a solve that feels smooth and optimistically look at the timer and it's still a 20 or 21.

I've been watching my timer legs slowly come back the past few days but beating my Ao5 was still a surprise. I thought I might be back in shape to threaten my Ao50 but I already had a low :18 Ao5 and considered it an outlier still. Been a while since I've bunched some decent solves together.


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## SpartanSailor (Aug 11, 2019)

pglewis said:


> Yeah, one indicator is my guess of the time is before looking. When the lookahead is clicking I'm surprised by some effortless 18s and even 17s sometimes. When it isn't, I finish a solve that feels smooth and and optimistically look at the timer and it's still a 20 or 21.
> 
> I've been watching my timer legs slowly come back the past few days but beating my Ao5 was still a surprise. I thought I might be back in shape to threaten my Ao50 but I already had a low :18 Ao5 and considered it an outlier still. Been a while since I've bunched some decent solves together.


Exactly!


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## Torrente (Aug 12, 2019)

Hello, I am 51yo and currently averaging 60s with CFOP after re-starting cubing 2 months ago with some practice, I do cross and F2L inneficiently and 2 look PLL. 
I think that apart of practicing it would help me to watch example solves.
I would appreciate any specific recommendation about example solves source or other roadmap appropriate for improving at my level.

Thank you!


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## Tom Joad (Aug 12, 2019)

Torrente said:


> Hello, I am 51yo and currently averaging 60s with CFOP after re-starting cubing 2 months ago with some practice, I do cross and F2L inneficiently and 2 look PLL.
> I think that apart of practicing it would help me to watch example solves.
> I would appreciate any specific recommendation about example solves source or other roadmap appropriate for improving at my level.
> 
> Thank you!



jperm videos on youtube

He covers just about everything at every level. And he is a superb teacher.


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## pglewis (Aug 12, 2019)

Dr. Lube said:


> BrodytheCuber's videos are good. I'm still stuck on F2L but I think I understand why...



What exactly has you "stuck"?


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## Lapse. (Aug 13, 2019)

Dr. Lube said:


> from what I understand, good F2L takes a number of years of practice.



No it doesn't actually, F2L in less than 20 seconds if you've been cubing for less than a year should be pretty obtainable. I have some friends who have only learnt to solve the cube in less than a year and they are sub-30 already. 

The easiest advice to give would be to do a ton of solves. You'd naturally get better(and faster) at what you're doing. I did this for a long time, getting to about 30 seconds using a crappy easy-F2L hack I made myself when I started. 

Some other advice would be watching example solves and focusing on how the person solves each F2L case. Its very hard to explain what to do to improve your F2L in a short paragraph anyway since I don't know much but these are what i use to get sub-10 F2L. Not very fast but I think my opinion still applies.


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## GAN 356 X (Aug 13, 2019)

I've been speedcubing for about half year, and now average 27 seconds. I have known how to do beginner method since I was 7 though, which I suppose is a bit of an advantage. my F2L usually takes 15-20 seconds


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## mark49152 (Aug 13, 2019)

Dr. Lube said:


> I find it very difficult to 'see' the pieces I need for my F2L pairs as everything seems to blend. This leads to some very long gaps in what should otherwise be a smooth process as I go hunting around the puzzle. I put it down to my age (48) and my lack of experience in the hobby as I only started solving in May 2018 and, from what I understand, good F2L takes a number of years of practice.


Age is certainly a factor. Kids can improve very quickly, but it took me (in my 40s) a year to get sub-30 then another year to get sub-20. I didn't have time to sit and solve all day every day, but I wasn't limited to a few solves per week either. I did put in a reasonable amount of regular practice to achieve that rate of progression - several thousand solves, plus a lot of targeted practice on steps like F2L and cross, and drilling algorithms.


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## Lapse. (Aug 13, 2019)

Dr. Lube said:


> I suppose I could try that for F2L, always starting with red, blue for example, but being neutral about which F2L pair I'm going to insert first is faster, isn't it?



No that's a pretty bad technique for 3x3 i think, it works for megaminx because there are so many other pieces its hard to be 'f2l neutral', most people have a set solving route. For 3x3 you shouldn't do that, because you might be fixed on solving only one pair which may take a longer time to find if a corner or piece is in your blind spot which is what a lot of people who have bad f2l (me included) suffer from. Fluid cross-F2L transition may take a long while to do, but what I have been doing recently is tracking your first f2l pair while doing your cross slower than normal so at least the pause isn't so significant and you already tracked an f2l pair beforehand giving you even more time to work with your other f2l pairs.

I would also say to solve the blind spot first which for most people would be either the back left or right slots depending on you, i heard this from somewhere on the internet before but I'm not sure who originally said this but it helps if you can't really see it.

Blind solving F2L can help but you have to put that into use when you solve, it is good if you can solve f2l pairs blind which gives you confidence but while you solve them you should be looking and tracking a white corner or an edge. I kind of randomly got the hang of it so sometimes i can spot another f2l case while solving my first and cancel into the second one straight away without pausing. 

Also look up algs for hard cases if you haven't done that yet, and watch walkthrough solves to learn some tips and tricks, try to watch ones near your skill level and not what i did, i tried to watch some advanced colour neutral walkthrough solves when i was a slowpoke and got some bad info that wasn't applicable to me.


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## pglewis (Aug 14, 2019)

Dr. Lube said:


> I find it very difficult to 'see' the pieces I need for my F2L pairs as everything seems to blend. This leads to some very long gaps in what should otherwise be a smooth process as I go hunting around the puzzle. I put it down to my age (48) and my lack of experience in the hobby as I only started solving in May 2018 and, from what I understand, good F2L takes a number of years of practice.



Some people ease into lookahead really easily, I've been rather slow developing it. Youth has a couple advantages with faster reflexes and typically more practice time but I'm still kinda slow getting my lookahead going even by "seniors standards". 

I'm 51, took up speedsolving a little over 3 years ago, and my F2L has been under constant refinement along the way. Early on I intuitively generalized the cases and I've gradually become more specific in dealing with them as I've improved. I find a case or two that are slowing me down or taking too many moves, lookup or discover a better way to deal with them, get them incorporated into my solves, repeat (most cases should be 8 moves max, 11 for some exceptions). This process is still going on for me: right now my focus is cases where an edge is in the wrong slot and then I have the cases with a corner in the wrong slot to work on after that. 

Blind-pair exercises are designed to help you make the execution automatic with the goal of looking for your next pair while solving the current pair. When my lookahead isn't working well it hurts me at least two ways: I'm not even looking for my next pair until I finish the one I'm solving and spotting pieces tends to be easier when they're moving vs. when you've stopped. More enlightening to me than blind pair exercises has been doing slow solves where I'm just looking at what's happening while solving a pair. Not even trying to spot the next pair, just watching things move... anything except looking at the pair itself. In my best solves that's what's going on, I just "see things" and never seem to have to look for anything. If only I could catch it and bottle it.


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## BMcD308 (Aug 15, 2019)

I am by no means an expert at F2L. In fact, when I use F2L right now, it takes me about as long to solve F2L as it takes me to complete the entire puzzle using LBL, so using F2L results in times that exceed by LBL solve times by pretty much the whole last layer.

That said, I find the corners MUCH easier to spot than the edges, and I find that I spend a whole lot less time "hunting for pieces" if I find an edge that is already on top when I'm finishing my cross and then find its corner (rather than the other way around). 

I am good enough at the right hand and left hand insertions that I can normally find another edge while inserting the pair. I'm not sure why I feel like this is easier, but try it. As you finish the cross, see that (for example) the red and blue edge is on top. BAM. Decision made. Where is the white - red - blue corner? For whatever reason I can normally find it instantly. Pair them up. During the R U R' or L' U' L sequence find another edge. As soon as you see it, just be done. That's your next pair. For me, that tends to make things much quicker than trying to find multiple pairs, assess which might be easiest, then execute. And for some reason it's WAY easier (for me anyway) than picking a corner that is on top then hunting all over the cube for the edge that goes with it.


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## Mike Hughey (Aug 15, 2019)

@openseas : Are you really going to be at the Korean Championships this weekend? Just curious how you managed to swing that.

I'll be at the Indiana competition in Fort Wayne this weekend. Life at home has been pretty hectic with 2 of my kids moving into their own apartments out of town this past week, so I haven't had the time to practice I'd like (or the time to sleep, which is really important for the BLD events!), but I guess we'll see how it goes. I will try to get some good sleep tonight, but not sure how it will go - still a lot going on.


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## h2f (Aug 16, 2019)

Dr. Lube said:


> I put it down to my age (48) and my lack of experience in the hobby as I only started solving in May 2018 and, from what I understand, good F2L takes a number of years of practice.



In my opinion, age doesnt matter for being sub15.. Yes, you need few years to master your f2l, but for sub30 solves it's enough to practice and used to 41 basic cases. Of course young people has a greater ability to learn new things needed in speedcubing - like TPS - but for sub30 you dont need TPS. What kids have is a lot of free time and they can practice a lot.


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## openseas (Aug 19, 2019)

Mike Hughey said:


> @openseas : Are you really going to be at the Korean Championships this weekend? Just curious how you managed to swing that.
> 
> I'll be at the Indiana competition in Fort Wayne this weekend. Life at home has been pretty hectic with 2 of my kids moving into their own apartments out of town this past week, so I haven't had the time to practice I'd like (or the time to sleep, which is really important for the BLD events!), but I guess we'll see how it goes. I will try to get some good sleep tonight, but not sure how it will go - still a lot going on.



@Mike Hughey yes, just finished yesterday. I was lucky, it happened on a week when I needed to make a biz trip.
How was your comp?
Oh, just checked your results. Congrats on your all big BLD & MBLD podium + MBLD PB!

All big BLD and MBLD were disaster - all DNF’d. I blame jet lag - arrived the night before / couldn’t trace.

3BLD was ok, one 54s.


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## bossel (Aug 19, 2019)

Hi there! It's bossel here, registered just yesterday. I am 51, guess that might qualify me as an older cuber  Started with CFOP 2 months ago, and I guess it will take me a lot of time to get faster. I feel that I am learning and getting better, but still way to go. Haven't measured a solve yet (too scared about the outcome)  But it's fun and I enjoy learning new stuff!!


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## phuque99 (Aug 19, 2019)

bossel said:


> Hi there! It's bossel here, registered just yesterday. I am 51, guess that might qualify me as an older cuber  Started with CFOP 2 months ago, and I guess it will take me a lot of time to get faster. I feel that I am learning and getting better, but still way to go. Haven't measured a solve yet (too scared about the outcome)  But it's fun and I enjoy learning new stuff!!



Do try roux once you're familiar with R2L. There's a lot less algorithms to learn, at least for me as an old guy as well.


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## Torrente (Aug 19, 2019)

bossel said:


> Hi there! It's bossel here, registered just yesterday. I am 51, guess that might qualify me as an older cuber  Started with CFOP 2 months ago, and I guess it will take me a lot of time to get faster. I feel that I am learning and getting better, but still way to go. Haven't measured a solve yet (too scared about the outcome)  But it's fun and I enjoy learning new stuff!!


Hello more or less same here, 51yo and around 3 months, currently around 60seconds. I measure it from time to time but more than 95% of my solves are untimed.


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## bossel (Aug 19, 2019)

For now I have chosen cfop and this will keep me busy for a while, before I move on to anything else. Not saying I might not have a first look, but just improving my cfop will eat up all my available time.


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## Tom Joad (Aug 20, 2019)

Great to see this thread going strong, so here’s five random tips for all the newbies who are getting into cfop and starting to count their times in seconds rather than minutes:

1. Jperm is the best tutor on youtube. Get involved even if you just watch him for five minutes a day.

2. Watch colourfulpockets and brodythecuber (on youtube) for comedy value. It’s mildly disconcerting how self deprecating these guys are for ones so young but if you have a dry sense of humour, they will entertain you.

3. Think about the bits of your solve you can definitely minimise (irrespective of your age or TPS) like “two sided pll recognition” and enjoy becoming super efficient at it.

4. Same for cross. If it’s taking more than eight moves every go you’re doing it all wrong. Make your cross really good sooner rather than later.

5. Learn algorithm notation.

5. There seems to be loads of strange “intuitive v algorithmic” f2l arguments out there, which make no sense to me. I think the best way to learn f2l is a mixture of the two but such is the bipolarised world of social media we now live in (coupled with the lack of people capable of articulating the point) this gets hardly any press. 

I am surprised (given how good he is at explaining stuff) jperm hasn’t made a youtube video on it though...

For what it’s worth, I reckon, as you start to learn f2l, you should slow solve whilst having a list of (maybe the basic 41) algorithms at hand.

So you come to a case in your solve and you don’t recognise or don’t know what to do. You look up the case and see the algorithm. But that’s just a list of letters. So here’s the key thing. As you execute it, you translate it into a description of what the pieces are doing.

So you certainly don’t learn a list of letters. You learn something like “ah, this is the up and over the top and do two U moves then it’s paired up and now I know how to insert that case” or “ah, the towards then away case” etc

But you do start with the list of algorithms at hand. And use it. So as soon as possible, you’re turning the algorithms into “movement descriptions”. And the lists of letters become redundant. You see the case and think “up over” or “towards away” etc

Then, over time, your muscle memory takes over (because you’ve executed it so many times). And you see the case and just execute it. Not only has the list of letters faded away but now your wordy description has also faded away.

Or something.

No doubt somebody (smarter than me) somewhere has (already¿) explained this succinctly, so that newbies to f2l will, on the one hand, happily have an algorithm sheet next to them, but on the other hand, will understand the goal of ultimately rendering the algorithm sheet redundant (possibly using wordy descriptions as an intermediate that will also ultimately become redundant)

*puts kettle on*


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## Tabe (Aug 20, 2019)

Tom Joad said:


> 1. Jperm is the best tutor on youtube. Get involved even if you just watch him for five minutes a day.


I would agree with this though Brodythecuber isn't far behind. They both have a ton of tutorial videos that are super-clear and easy to understand.


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## ep2 (Aug 20, 2019)

New to this forum, but cubing about a year (after being able to solve occasionally 20 years ago, depending on the PLL, which I'd rescramble if I didn't know it). Down to an average of 30s, with 2LLL and watching all Jperms videos, repeatedly.


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## Mike Hughey (Aug 20, 2019)

I guess I never did give a report on my competition last weekend. It was a really good time; I always like Nathan Dwyer's competitions in Fort Wayne, and this one was no exception.

On Friday I had a pretty rough time with 5BLD; I did get the first solve, but then kept making mistakes on my wing parity algorithm. Sometimes I just blank on an algorithm that is in muscle memory, and can't think of it, for no good reason. I really think it's an older cuber thing. (One time I actually couldn't remember how to do Sune in a regular 3x3x3 solve a few years ago; most younger cubers can't believe it's possible to forget Sune. ) But at least I got the first solve. Since Stanley Chapel and Mark Boyanowski both DNFed all 3 (a very unusual event!), I actually won 5BLD, and can say I beat the World Champion! 

4BLD was nothing special; I got two okay solves, and on the third, cycled 3 wings the wrong direction and so missed the mean. Not that it was a particularly good mean anyway. Enough to get on the podium at third place.

Multi was nice! While memorizing, I almost felt like giving up, because I felt pretty drained from the 4 and 5 BLD attempts earlier. But I stuck it out, and I actually got a new PB - 15/16! I think at this point, it makes sense to not just keep trying for perfect; I will go ahead and try to speed up a little more. I'll probably start trying 18 in the weekly competition this week. I'm sure it will be a disaster, but 16 used to be a disaster, and now I seem to be able to handle it! Again I made podium, third place to Mark (with 40/52!), and Stanley (with 34/45!). The gap is quite ridiculous. 

I did okay in FMC; about the same as I do in the weekly competitions.

Saturday was so relaxed. I wasn't able to attend Sunday, so I didn't really have to worry about whether or not I made it to second rounds - I wouldn't be able to compete in them anyway. I got a new PB single in 6x6x6, but it was still well above the cutoff. I'm capable of making that cutoff, but it seems like 6x6x6 rarely ever goes well for me in competition (whereas I do pretty well relative to my ability on 7x7x7 - not sure why 6x6x6 gives me so much trouble). Other highlights were that I actually got a sub-10 pyraminx average, more than 2 seconds better than my previous best in competition! And I also got another sub-20 3x3x3 average - only my third one ever! And this one felt unique in that it actually felt like a typical average, instead of a lucky one, like my previous ones did. I actually feel like I finally genuinely average sub-20 (barely).

I also was able to help out a fair amount at the competition. It's been a while since I've been able to help out that much at a competition with scrambling and running - I had a great time! And I got to meet a fellow older cuber - Wally Kolcz - he was judging for me on a few of my solves, so it was nice to get to meet him.


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## mark49152 (Aug 21, 2019)

Good update, Mike, I enjoyed reading that. Congrats on that MBLD!


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## AbsoRuud (Aug 21, 2019)

I had a nice competition last weekend. I took part in 5 events. I made 2nd round in 3 of them and in total I broke a PR 10 times. Very pleased getting the results that I know I'm capable of, similar times to my home times. Looking forward to the Dutch nationals!


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## openseas (Aug 21, 2019)

Mike Hughey said:


> I guess I never did give a report on my competition last weekend. It was a really good time; I always like Nathan Dwyer's competitions in Fort Wayne, and this one was no exception.
> 
> On Friday I had a pretty rough time with 5BLD; I did get the first solve, but then kept making mistakes on my wing parity algorithm. Sometimes I just blank on an algorithm that is in muscle memory, and can't think of it, for no good reason. I really think it's an older cuber thing. (One time I actually couldn't remember how to do Sune in a regular 3x3x3 solve a few years ago; most younger cubers can't believe it's possible to forget Sune. ) But at least I got the first solve. Since Stanley Chapel and Mark Boyanowski both DNFed all 3 (a very unusual event!), I actually won 5BLD, and can say I beat the World Champion!
> 
> ...



Nice update! And again, congrats on your podiums and PBs.

Here’s the link for my last 3BLD final solve (not the PR) of 1:05.


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## Sergey (Aug 24, 2019)

First day at my second comps. Not so good but no so bad. 5x5: got new single PR 2:33.11 but did not passed cutoff, still without official avg. 4x4: new single PR 1:13.99 and first official avg 1:35.53. Will see how it goes tomorrow (3x3)....


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## Sergey (Aug 25, 2019)

Day two. Again not as good as I expected to be but got both new PRs on 3x3 - 18.86 single and 22.17 avg.


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## Mike Hughey (Aug 25, 2019)

So since I've had so many decent results with 16 cubes multiBLD in the past few weeks in official competitions, I decided to go ahead and try 18 for the first time this week. Rather than starting at 1 AM like I usually do, this time I gave myself a bit of an advantage and napped from 1 AM to 5 AM before trying it.  (still early enough that the family wasn't up yet)

I knew I needed to memorize faster, so I pushed my memorization a good bit, and it made the neccessary difference - I got through the entire memorization in just 42 minutes, without even using a normal-BLD cube - all 18 were stored in long-term memory! And while the scrambles were not particularly hard, they also didn't seem particularly easy - they felt about normal.

It was quite a surprising success! 13/18, but it was really 14/18 in about 60:05 - I had only the last two corner algs left when the timer expired, and quickly finished it correctly. One of the 4 I actually missed was just off by two edges which I memorized correctly but forgot to flip. The other three were due to my memo not being quite solid enough, so that I had to give up on them after trying to recall them for a while. So my memorization was truly not solid enough, and I need to still work on that. But the good news on all three was that I was able to second-look all of them, except one where I had neglected to memorize a flipped edge when first memorizing.

In any event, it seems like I really am capable of handling 18, at least sometimes!


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## muchacho (Aug 26, 2019)

I'm a bit surprised but my 3x3 OH times are almost back at what I was averaging last November. I don't have much time to practice, so I think I'll use all at OH, I see potential to improve maybe 2 seconds.

New Mo100 PB: 24.627 (old was 24.666 from November)


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## Sergey (Aug 26, 2019)

First attempts to record solves... (the solve itself is not perfect)


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## 8aum (Aug 27, 2019)

Hi Everyone,
I am 36 Yrs old and just found the community of old cubers here . As far as cubing is concerned I joined this forum in 2010 and learned the beginners method as a hobby and then was offline for a long time. Now that I found my old cube again buried in a closet and I still remember how to solve it in about 1:30 minutes (Some how the moves still exists in my muscle memory although I completely forgot the notations for the algorithms) ,I thought I should give a try to speed cubing.I would like to know if there are members in this community whose skills and age were comparable to mine and they were able to improve their time to sub 20. Please share the experiences and effort in cubing. Thanks.


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## AbsoRuud (Aug 27, 2019)

8aum said:


> Hi Everyone,
> I am 36 Yrs old and just found the community of old cubers here . As far as cubing is concerned I joined this forum in 2010 and learned the beginners method as a hobby and then was offline for a long time. Now that I found my old cube again buried in a closet and I still remember how to solve it in about 1:30 minutes (Some how the moves still exists in my muscle memory although I completely forgot the notations for the algorithms) ,I thought I should give a try to speed cubing.I would like to know if there are members in this community whose skills and age were comparable to mine and they were able to improve their time to sub 20. Please share the experiences and effort in cubing. Thanks.


When I started speedcubing I took 5 minutes to solve it. Now I am sub 30 and still improving.


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## 8aum (Aug 27, 2019)

AbsoRuud said:


> When I started speedcubing I took 5 minutes to solve it. Now I am sub 30 and still improving.


Nice to here from you.To strengthen my commitment I bought a GTS3M. This will keep me alert to utilize my investment  . I have started with practicing F2L as well as memorizing OLL and PLL side by side. At this stage shall I go on solving the cube with the complete CFOP method or just concentrate on F2L only ? I must say I have to sit back with my diary to recognize the cases and to apply the respective algs  . Is there any smarter way to set the cube for learning F2L cases ?I ask because there are cases in my alg list that havn't appeared even once in my all the previous solves?


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## AbsoRuud (Aug 27, 2019)

8aum said:


> Nice to here from you.To strengthen my commitment I bought a GTS3M. This will keep me alert to utilize my investment  . I have started with practicing F2L as well as memorizing OLL and PLL side by side. At this stage shall I go on solving the cube with the complete CFOP method or just concentrate on F2L only ? I must say I have to sit back with my diary to recognize the cases and to apply the respective algs  . Is there any smarter way to set the cube for learning F2L cases ?I ask because there are cases in my alg list that havn't appeared even once in my all the previous solves?


I don't use CFOP so I can't really be of much assistance here. I use Roux.


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## 8aum (Aug 27, 2019)

AbsoRuud said:


> I don't use CFOP so I can't really be of much assistance here. I use Roux.


Any particular reason to use Roux. CFOP seems more popular as well as lot of resources. Is Roux gaining popularity over CFOP ?


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## AbsoRuud (Aug 27, 2019)

8aum said:


> Any particular reason to use Roux. CFOP seems more popular as well as lot of resources. Is Roux gaining popularity over CFOP ?


For me it's simple. I liked Roux better than CFOP. It's less algs, no rotations and less pieces to keep track off at the same time. But to each their own. I recommend trying Roux, CFOP, ZZ and maybe Petrus, and see which method you like the most.


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## phuque99 (Aug 27, 2019)

8aum said:


> Any particular reason to use Roux. CFOP seems more popular as well as lot of resources. Is Roux gaining popularity over CFOP ?


I concur Roux is "simpler", with less algorithms to memorise. First two blocks and LSE can be solved intuitively, leaving only a few algorithms for CMLL. Using M-slice for first 2 layer of both blocks is also quite fun! I used Roux corner algs here (http://tinyurl.com/solvexio)

On CFOP; AFAIK after every scramble and cross, there will be enough random F2L cases to practise. If you're lazy about the cross, "Twisty Timer" phone app can provide you the scramble *and* solving the cross moves so you can start F2L right off the bat. The web csTimer tool can also generate an "easy cross" to solve for your F2L practise.


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## SpartanSailor (Aug 28, 2019)

It’s been awhile since I dropped in here... lots of good stuff going on.

I’ve been working to learn 4BLD. I had a good attempt today to do just centres. I took a LONG time to do the memo and trace, but it was worth it. I made an execution error and it was a mess. I kept the scramble—took a second attempt and this time I did it eyes open, but same memo (it stuck) and it was correct. So.... partial success regarding my 4BLD centres attempt. Success in the trace and memo, although fail in the execution. 

Wings, sighted, is coming along and becoming more smooth. The similarity to M2 makes it flow much easier. 

There is just so much more information to memo than for 3BLD, but I’m feeing optimistic that this endeavour is doable.


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## CLL Smooth (Aug 28, 2019)

8aum said:


> Hi Everyone,
> I am 36 Yrs old and just found the community of old cubers here . As far as cubing is concerned I joined this forum in 2010 and learned the beginners method as a hobby and then was offline for a long time. Now that I found my old cube again buried in a closet and I still remember how to solve it in about 1:30 minutes (Some how the moves still exists in my muscle memory although I completely forgot the notations for the algorithms) ,I thought I should give a try to speed cubing.I would like to know if there are members in this community whose skills and age were comparable to mine and they were able to improve their time to sub 20. Please share the experiences and effort in cubing. Thanks.


I started cubing in late 2010 myself at age 32. I became interested in speed early on though. I went to my first competition in 2012 with around a 25 second avg. I’m expecting to see my first sub-15 comp avg soon. Rest assured, if it’s something you like to do and you keep practicing, you will achieve your goals.


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## pglewis (Aug 29, 2019)

It has taken me 33 years to solve this latest puzzle but I think I've finally kicked smoking after more than 3 decades. I've gone the cold turkey route; no pills, patches, gum, or vaping. It's only been a week and a half but I'm over the physical withdrawal and it's a whole lot easier than the first four days of insanity at this point. The habit will probably pester me forever from time to time but I'm mentally over all the baggage of smoking.


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## bossel (Aug 29, 2019)

Congratulations! That's worth more than any record solve. Thumbs up!!!


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## SpartanSailor (Aug 29, 2019)

pglewis said:


> It has taken me 33 years to solve this latest puzzle but I think I've finally kicked smoking after more than 3 decades. I've gone the cold turkey route; no pills, patches, gum, or vaping. It's only been a week and a half but I'm over the physical withdrawal and it's a whole lot easier than the first four days of insanity at this point. The habit will probably pester me forever from time to time but I'm mentally over all the baggage of smoking.


That’s great!


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## chtiger (Sep 2, 2019)

Finally officially sub-20.
https://www.cubecomps.com/live.php?cid=4645&compid=12
5BLD was main goal, but no success there. Had 1 slow 4BLD success. Coulda been low 9:00 but I was remembering my previous 5BLD memo for edges. Surprised I got it sorted out correctly, but wasted a lot of time. Two slowish 3BLD successes in 1st round. 3rd solve would have been PB 1:36 and first avg, but just missed by 8 corners and 11 edges. Don't know what happened there. Final round was all slow and none close. I'll blame fatigue. Other PBs were pyra single, and 4x4 by default


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## Sergey (Sep 3, 2019)

Spoiler: New 3x3 single PB 12.48 (3rd sub13)



F L2 R2 F' U2 R2 D2 L2 U2 F' U2 R U R F D2 R D2 L D B2

x2 // inspection
R' D L U' F2 // cross
U U R U' R' U R U' R' U y' U R U' R' // 1st pair
y' U' L' U L // 2nd pair
R U' R' l U L' U' M' // 3rd pair
U' R U' R' U2 R U' R' // 4th pair
U2 r U R' U' M U R U' R' // OLL
U2 // AUF PLL skip

@alg.cubing.net


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## GAN 356 X (Sep 3, 2019)

Tom Joad said:


> Jperm is the best tutor on youtube. Get involved even if you just watch him for five minutes a day.
> 
> 2. Watch colourfulpockets and brodythecuber (on youtube) for comedy value. It’s mildly disconcerting how self deprecating these guys are for ones so young but if you have a dry sense of humour, they will entertain you.


So true. Brody the cuber is absolutely hilarious, especially his 'your lying to yourself!' video. J perm is definitely the best YouTuber to learn from though


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## GAN 356 X (Sep 3, 2019)

Sergey said:


> Spoiler: New 3x3 single PB 12.48 (3rd sub13)
> 
> 
> 
> ...


What did you get?


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## Sergey (Sep 3, 2019)

GAN 356 X said:


> What did you get?


Satisfaction, of course  This is simply another home PB, not PR.


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## GAN 356 X (Sep 3, 2019)

Sergey said:


> Satisfaction, of course  This is simply another home PB, not PR.


What about your time? Nice solve by the way (;


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## Sergey (Sep 3, 2019)

GAN 356 X said:


> What about your time? Nice solve by the way (;


Thanks. Modest... PBs at now are not much better than those. PRs: 3x3 - 18.86/22.17, 4x4 - 1:13.99/1:35.53, 5x5 - 2:33.11/NA.


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## GAN 356 X (Sep 3, 2019)

Sergey said:


> Thanks. Modest... PBs at now are not much better than those. PRs: 3x3 - 18.86/22.17, 4x4 - 1:13.99/1:35.53, 5x5 - 2:33.11/NA.


Well done! I can't solve 5x5 and average 23-25 secs on 3x3


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## openseas (Sep 3, 2019)

chtiger said:


> Finally officially sub-20.
> https://www.cubecomps.com/live.php?cid=4645&compid=12
> 5BLD was main goal, but no success there. Had 1 slow 4BLD success. Coulda been low 9:00 but I was remembering my previous 5BLD memo for edges. Surprised I got it sorted out correctly, but wasted a lot of time. Two slowish 3BLD successes in 1st round. 3rd solve would have been PB 1:36 and first avg, but just missed by 8 corners and 11 edges. Don't know what happened there. Final round was all slow and none close. I'll blame fatigue. Other PBs were pyra single, and 4x4 by default



Congrats!


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## h2f (Sep 4, 2019)

GAN 356 X said:


> J perm is definitely the best YouTuber to learn from though



They are good but sometimes Jperm talks about things he knows a little like 3style or FMC.


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## One Wheel (Sep 5, 2019)

I just got a 15.31 3x3 single! 0.05 seconds slower than my best. Orange cross was R' D R, F sexy F' OLL, took about a second to realize the PLL skip, but looks like it was a misscramble, so no reconstruction. :-(.


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## SpartanSailor (Sep 8, 2019)

h2f said:


> They are good but sometimes Jperm talks about things he knows a little like 3style or FMC.


I agree that he seems to make videos as soon as he learns something. That said, I like how he explains it very simply. Like... “I just really figured out this basic stuff, so let me help you understand this same basic stuff.” I like it. I’ve learned a few things from him, but then learned more and moved away from his “tutorial/lesson”. But I learned a LOT from him that helped me understand more difficult content.


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## h2f (Sep 8, 2019)

SpartanSailor said:


> I agree that he seems to make videos as soon as he learns something. That said, I like how he explains it very simply. Like... “I just really figured out this basic stuff, so let me help you understand this same basic stuff.” I like it. I’ve learned a few things from him, but then learned more and moved away from his “tutorial/lesson”. But I learned a LOT from him that helped me understand more difficult content.



Yes, he is a well talented teacher. I've learnt a lot about 3x3 with CFOP from his videos - tutorials, example solves or solves critiques.


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## pglewis (Sep 10, 2019)

h2f said:


> They are good but sometimes Jperm talks about things he knows a little like 3style or FMC.


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## h2f (Sep 10, 2019)

pglewis said:


>


Being lucky is not a crime.


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## openseas (Sep 10, 2019)

h2f said:


> Being lucky is not a crime.



Looks like somebody is watching this thread


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## h2f (Sep 11, 2019)

openseas said:


> Looks like somebody is watching this thread



I'm a huge fan of Erik Akkersdijk quote.


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## Oldmancfop (Sep 12, 2019)

Finally, it took almost a year but got my first sub 20 today, and without a skip!


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## AbsoRuud (Sep 13, 2019)

Dr. Lube said:


> A quick question...
> 
> How old do you think a puzzle needs to be to be considered 'vintage'?


80s.


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## Sergey (Sep 13, 2019)

AbsoRuud said:


> 80s.


Something like this one:


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## Sergey (Sep 13, 2019)

Friday, 13... 4x4, 13 solves - all with OLL parities in a row, and 10 of them with additional PLL parities.


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## JohnnyReggae (Sep 13, 2019)

Sergey said:


> Friday, 13... 4x4, 13 solves - all with OLL parities in a row, and 10 of them with additional PLL parities.


Sounds like my typical 4x4 session


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## pglewis (Sep 13, 2019)

Oldmancfop said:


> Finally, it took almost a year but got my first sub 20 today, and without a skip!



Congrats, that's a big milestone for sure!


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## h2f (Sep 20, 2019)

Brief update about my 3bld. I've finished learning algs with UF buffer and I used to different order of doing 3bld. I was doing Edges Corners memo and Corners-Edges execution till switching from DF to UF. Now I use CEEC and I'm fine with that. I had a comp last month and I got 1:32.97 with UF. This week I had few nice solves with 50.13 best on stackmat.


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## Izaden (Sep 20, 2019)

Don't know if I'm old enough to be an "old cuber" but I'm 29. I learned to solve 3x3 about a year ago and never bothered trying to improve until this week.


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## Tom Joad (Sep 29, 2019)

Second ever sub 12... was lucky with a pll skip. Can feel a sub 11 on the way...

Next up... Will focus on getting my cross down to 1.5 seconds with no rotations... inspired by jperms video from last week... I don’t think I’ve ever really done any cross practice


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## openseas (Oct 7, 2019)

So, my 3rd 6BLD try was the best DNF so far.

One inner T-center inverse comm
One right Oblique inverse comm
Two left oblique inverse traces

- Switching oblique memo to "edge letter scheme" looks better. Before, I used corner letter scheme which resulted in many trace errors.
- Finding right inner slice for execution is a bit tricky for me since I don't do any big cubes at all other than BLD. I had to count slice position before starting execution.
- non magnetized factory default MF6RS is not easy to maneuver either.


Generated By csTimer on 2019-10-06
single: DNF

Time List:
1. DNF(1:09:20.99)=36:19.02+33:01.97 Lw' Bw2 3Rw' R' L' 3Uw' Bw 3Rw B' L2 3Rw Bw2 3Rw 3Uw2 Lw' D2 Bw2 B' D' Bw2 L2 3Uw' Uw Dw' R' Uw2 Lw2 R 3Fw Lw' Dw2 3Uw2 F U 3Rw L2 F Fw' Uw' B2 D 3Rw2 U2 Uw' Lw2 Dw2 Uw' R L F2 Fw' D B Bw' Rw Lw' 3Uw' L' B 3Fw' 3Uw R' Uw2 Bw 3Fw' U2 R' L' Bw R 3Rw 3Uw2 Dw2 Fw' 3Uw' U' 3Fw L Dw' R


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## Tom Joad (Oct 9, 2019)

Third sub 12 

Very lucky again: Two move cross, pll skip...

Can’t wait for this “10. something” which is teasing me from the horizon...


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## mark49152 (Oct 12, 2019)

Wow. Haven't visited this thread for almost a month, and I thought there would be lots to catch up on. Only five posts?! Where have all the older cubers gone?


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## AbsoRuud (Oct 12, 2019)

Most topics that are discussed have nothing to do with being an older cuber. The most prominent topic is blind solving, for which there are many other topics. So let's start off a discussion that is specific to older cubers.

How do you feel about being one of the few old people in a competition? How do you interact with the youngsters at comp? Do you try and fit in with the kids, or do you act like a mentor figure, even if they are twice as fast? Do you talk to the parents a lot at comps? Do you get mistaken for a parent?


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## AbsoRuud (Oct 12, 2019)

Dr. Lube said:


> I'm still here, but preparing to evacuate my house as typhoon Hagibis approaches... Wish me luck.


Good luck sir!


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## JohnnyReggae (Oct 12, 2019)

AbsoRuud said:


> Most topics that are discussed have nothing to do with being an older cuber. The most prominent topic is blind solving, for which there are many other topics. So let's start off a discussion that is specific to older cubers.
> 
> How do you feel about being one of the few old people in a competition? How do you interact with the youngsters at comp? Do you try and fit in with the kids, or do you act like a mentor figure, even if they are twice as fast? Do you talk to the parents a lot at comps? Do you get mistaken for a parent?


Initially I felt a little out being the oldest competitor around, but I found that getting involved helped a lot. So started helping out with running, judging, scrambling etc.. I ended up becoming a Delegate quite early on in my Speedcubing career. So now I'm always involved with the running of logistics on the day, organising, delegating ... it's usually quite a busy day for me. The only downside is that I can't really focus on my solving like I would like to and sit down for 30 minutes to warm up and get a few practice solves in. The positive is that I need to be at each Cape Town competition as currently there are only 2 Delegates in South Africa.

I'm still the oldest competitor usually, but I like it because my speeds usually put me in the finals of each event except 2x2. So I can hold my head high amongst the kids that are so quick. 

ps - I don't really care about 2x2 and only practice for 10 minutes here and there is the few days before a comp. Pretty much the same for the likes of Skewb, Pyra, Mega.


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## bossel (Oct 12, 2019)

mark49152 said:


> Wow. Haven't visited this thread for almost a month, and I thought there would be lots to catch up on. Only five posts?! Where have all the older cubers gone?



With age, things slow down  More seriously, I am progressing slowly, no records to report. But I notice I am getting better. Main issue is, I don’t practice enough, there is only myself to blame. Started to learn full OLL (I know about half now). At my stage, its absolutely the wrong thing to do, but I like it and it makes me happy. Also practiced the cross, my most unfavorite step. Trying to improve finger tricks, but still way to go. Dunno if its the age or my rheumatism, but in the end its probably because I don’t practice enough  I don’t plan to go after the world record, but if one day I average 30s, I‘d be most happye. It might take me many more month, or a year, but it’ll take the time it takes. I am doing this for fun, and to challenge my grey cells


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## Tom Joad (Oct 12, 2019)

bossel said:


> With age, things slow down  More seriously, I am progressing slowly, no records to report. But I notice I am getting better. Main issue is, I don’t practice enough, there is only myself to blame. Started to learn full OLL (I know about half now). At my stage, its absolutely the wrong thing to do, but I like it and it makes me happy. Also practiced the cross, my most unfavorite step. Trying to improve finger tricks, but still way to go. Dunno if its the age or my rheumatism, but in the end its probably because I don’t practice enough  I don’t plan to go after the world record, but if one day I average 30s, I‘d be most happye. It might take me many more month, or a year, but it’ll take the time it takes. I am doing this for fun, and to challenge my grey cells



Whilst oll is arguably “least reward for most learning time” it is aesthetically pleasing and like you say, what is this all about if not a bit of fun!

Just started videoing my solves and now appreciate just how bad my cross is, so that’s what I’ll be practicing too.

Whilst I am far from the fastest on here, I might put up a video of some “slow turning 19 second” type solves to inspire anyone who thinks their slow turning is a limiting factor on their times...


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## One Wheel (Oct 13, 2019)

I like reading this thread, but I haven’t had much to add of late. I got some new puzzles a couple weeks ago:

- YJ Yulong v2 m is a good 2x2, mostly I’ve noticed faster execution with the few 2BLD solves I’ve done.
- Yuxin Little Magic 8x8 turns very nicely, but it’s very big, not really magnetizable, and came with a smashed corner. It’s on its way back to TheCubicle, they’ll give me credit and I’ll probably try the MF8
- YLM magnetic Square-1 is a really nice quality puzzle. I’m not a huge fan of Square-1 as a puzzle, too alg-heavy, but I’ve done about 150 solves on this and my rolling Ao100 is down to 1:08.xx.


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## h2f (Oct 14, 2019)

mark49152 said:


> Wow. Haven't visited this thread for almost a month, and I thought there would be lots to catch up on. Only five posts?! Where have all the older cubers gone?


Facebook kills forums.  I've seen it few times.


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## SenorJuan (Oct 14, 2019)

I too have little worth posting, though I do check here a couple of times a week.
I don't make time to practice so much, either, my solve times are getting longer ... and Max's new OH WR makes me seem even slower. A look at the reconstruction of his solve doesn't help either, it's a pretty conventional solve with a PLL skip, if only I could turn at 10 TPS ( or think that quick ... )
I did buy a Ghost Cube in the summer, a blue one with 'carbon fibre' stickers. I've done about 10 solves on it, but it's not as fun as I had hoped. Really hard to keep it aligned whilst turning, and the visual cues that tell you it's aligned are pretty much non-existent. You have to concentrate really hard, and if you do make a minor mistake, trying to spot it, and correct it, is really tough. The 'parity' problem, however is not a problem. The two 'identical' flat triangular corner pieces are distinguishable on the carbon sticker version, the 'weave' pattern differs. So you can choose the correct one. Hence I recommend buying carbon stickers if you're OK with a little cheating.
I will try and visit the UK Champs in Stevenage next week to say hello to folks.


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## SpartanSailor (Oct 14, 2019)

Over the weekend, I attended a local competition. Nothing spectacular, but I felt like it was a generally good day. My focus these days is 4x4–chasing the ever elusive sub-1:00 

This past weekend I competed in 3x3, 2x2, 4x4 and OH.

3x3: Im still seeking an official sub-20 average. This weekend wasn’t a pb but a 20.71. I’ll take it. My times were still overall decent: 18, 21, 22, 21, 19. The upside of those 21s and 22 is I realised I was making errors or struggling and kept my nerves in check and managed to have “decent“ “bad” solves. Nevertheless, it’s a lot more consistent across the average than I’ve had in several preceding comps.
highlight of the comp was hanging out with a fellow old-guy. on our 3rd solve, they happen to place us side by side on the competitor table. We laughed that they 
were giving us an “old guy head to head”. Then, we ended up getting the EXACT same time of 22.492 (or something). But it was exactly the same to the third decimal. Lol

2x2: I haven’t touched my 2x2 since US Nationals. I don’t practice so I had no objective. Ended with an average of 7.9 or some thing. That’s fine. 

4x4: like my 3x3 quest for sub-20, I’m in this for the long haul. Given the amount of practice I put into this event, my progress can be best measured on the same scale as the history of the planet. Slow... would be an overstatement of my rate of progression. That said, I was pleased to get 1:05 to start. Cutoff was 1:10, so that removed that pressure. Then 1:13. far more inconsistency and variation with 4x4. Then 1:04, 1:13 again and ended with DNF. Oh well. I was feeling good about my look ahead during edge pairing and even predicted OL and PLL pretty decently when dealing with parity which reduced paused in those final steps. So, despite the times, I’ll call it a success. Oh, the DNF was that I just quit mid-solve when I realised it was going to be slower than 1:13. 

OH: i was quite pleased with this event. I don’t practice a lot, but I have improved considerably since my most WCA profile time was posted such awhile ago. My goal Was to make the 45s cutoff and get a decent average in the 40s range. I was pretty consistent with 42, 49, 42, 44, 42. Made cut off and averaged 43.3. I have done better at home, but all things considered this was a very good result for me in a comp setting. I’ll keep playing with OH for a bit, it seems to be fun for the time being. 

We have another next month that will be the anniversary of our very first comp (our = me and my son). I don’t have any particular expectations, but I’ll take another shot at that 3x3 sub-20 average. They are not hosting 4x4.... so that will have to wait for another day. 

happy Monday folks!


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## Pascal-NL (Oct 14, 2019)

How are you old guys doing? When I was a kid I liked to play with my 3x3 for a while but I sucked big time. I am now 42 and just starting to learn how to solve the cubes. This results in something great. I can only get faster with solving the cubes with age instead of getting slower 
My daughter of 10 is now curious watching me while I am learning algorithms.


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## AbsoRuud (Oct 14, 2019)

Pascal-NL said:


> How are you old guys doing? When I was a kid I liked to play with my 3x3 for a while but I sucked big time. I am now 42 and just starting to learn how to solve the cubes. This results in something great. I can only get faster with solving the cubes with age instead of getting slower
> My daughter of 10 is now curious watching me while I am learning algorithms.


I'm doing great! I got my Ao2000 down to 29.98 today. Minor milestones and all. Where are you from? Always nice to meet fellow Dutch cubers! Are you planning on attending any competitions soon? It's always nice to go, even if you're slow (like me) because it's nice to hang out with a very friendly community. And you can always try out cubes at a competition to see which ones you like.


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## Pascal-NL (Oct 14, 2019)

I live in Jisp. It is a very small village between Zaandam and Purmerend. I just started with cubing so I have no clue yet if there is a competition nearby soon.


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## SlechtValk (Oct 17, 2019)

I am a 46 year old Dutch guy.
I was pretty active with cubing around 2011 (8 years ago... Pfft, time flies). I was trying to get sub-25, but after a while I realised that I had to really work hard to get there and got discouraged.

So I did quit trying to get faster and just continued to do casual solves. And I taught several of my colleagues and a niece to solve the cube.

Just recently I got back into cubing and have renewed my collection (3x3-8x8, megaminx and my first square-1) with modern cubes. Haven't yet updated my 2x2, because I don't like solving it very much.

And already started learning new methods for solving the 4x4 (Yau) and Megaminx (Westlund).
It's fun, but also challenging to get my brain to accept these new methods.


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## AbsoRuud (Oct 18, 2019)

Welkom Hans. Hope to see you at a competition at some point!


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## One Wheel (Oct 30, 2019)

Sorry to see this thread slipping. I wish I had more to add. I had an unusual 4x4 solve just now, I wonder if anybody else has had similar: I use Yau, and after solving my 4th cross edge I saw that I had a complete f2l pair solved and (once I fixed my wrong color scheme) in the right place. I was able to preserve it for the rest of the solve, and ended up with a not-notable time of 1:31.xx.


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## Tom Joad (Oct 30, 2019)

I can bump it to the top every week with an update

Currently times have stagnated. No signs of progress. Learnt many new f2l cases to improve efficiency but still not smoothly enough to integrate them into good lookahead solves.

Also struggling with planning first pair in inspection. Might just do three move cross solves for six months then on to four move cross and so on to drill the idea of always planning first pair. Otherwise I just aimlessly start the solve and end up with a bad solve unless the first pair just presents itself in front of me.

Sub 15 is now a good solve for me, anything over 16 feels really bad but I’m currently doing lots of them due to the amount of new stuff I’m part way through learning.

Still confident progress will be noticeable eventually...


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## mark49152 (Oct 30, 2019)

Mini comp report from me.

I hadn't cubed at all since Leeds in July, due to a sore finger and being busy at work, and have rarely been on the forums either. I wasn't sure I would go to UK Championships last weekend, but I tried a few 4BLD solves four days beforehand and found I could still do it and wasn't much slower. So I did a little 4BLD and MBLD practice each day and went along with low expectations of my results.

At the event, I got a 5:06 4BLD success following two sub-5 DNFs. Not a PR, but I was pleased because it's a good time for me and my general pace of solving was back to when I was at my fastest two years ago. That break really seems to have helped. 

5BLD was disappointing. I fitted two full attempts into the time limit; both were slow and both DNFed by messing up the very last alg of the solve. The first time was frustrating, but to do it again was a facepalm moment.

In MBLD, my first attempt was a tired 13/20 at the end of the first day after big blind and three FMC attempts. The second and final attempt was the following morning, fresh again, and I finally broke my PR from two years ago with an 18/20 in 59:41. Overall it was my 11th official attempt at 20 cubes since I set my 15 point PR, and finally breaking that PR was my highlight of the weekend. Came 4th, missing podium on time. Now I will need to up my pace and fit 21 cubes into the hour, as my strategy is to always attempt PR+5 cubes!

Finally, 3BLD. Despite lack of practice and not feeling ready, I set a 48.65 PR on the first solve. The memo just stuck very easily and was fast, for me, at about 20-21 seconds. Made it to the finals but all the rest of my solves were slow DNFs, including one which was so bad I bailed out without even starting execution. Definitely my 3BLD accuracy and consistency has suffered from the long break, and I was just lucky to get one good solve.

Also did 3x3, 4x4 and FMC but there's nothing much to say about those.

As always it was great to catch up with the UK seniors and rest of the UK crew, and congrats to everyone on their results.


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## SpartanSailor (Oct 30, 2019)

One Wheel said:


> Sorry to see this thread slipping. I wish I had more to add. I had an unusual 4x4 solve just now, I wonder if anybody else has had similar: I use Yau, and after solving my 4th cross edge I saw that I had a complete f2l pair solved and (once I fixed my wrong color scheme) in the right place. I was able to preserve it for the rest of the solve, and ended up with a not-notable time of 1:31.xx.


I actually feel stressed when I see a solved F2L pair before I begin edge pairing. I get stuck trying to figure out how to preserve it. Sometimes I’ll try to preserve the solved edge but if I try too hard, I end up with much slower time. At this point, unless I’m at the edge pairing stage, I just blow thru a solved edge as if it’s not already solved.


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## mark49152 (Oct 30, 2019)

My highlight from the UK Championships 2019.


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## h2f (Oct 31, 2019)

Nice results Mark, @mark49152! Congrats!


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## pglewis (Oct 31, 2019)

The Facebook group has definitely stolen a good bit of the traffic from here but I still check-in here regularly. Congrats on the blind PRs, @mark49152, fantastic results! 

Two and a half months off of cigarettes for me now and I've also been much more active. I've only been doing maintenance solves lately but I'm also getting my 3x3 out to get it some fresh air every chance I get.


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## pjk (Oct 31, 2019)

mark49152 said:


> 5BLD was disappointing. I fitted two full attempts into the time limit; both were slow and both DNFed by messing up the very last alg of the solve. The first time was frustrating, but to do it again was a facepalm moment.


How frustrating that would be! Was it the same alg you messed up or different? 



pglewis said:


> Two and a half months off of cigarettes for me now and I've also been much more active. I've only been doing maintenance solves lately but I'm also getting my 3x3 out to get it some fresh air every chance I get.
> 
> View attachment 10962View attachment 10964View attachment 10963


Awesome pics and congrats on quitting smoking! Keep that going and crush life.


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## mark49152 (Oct 31, 2019)

pjk said:


> How frustrating that would be! Was it the same alg you messed up or different?


I haven't checked the video but I think it was the Y-perm/setup for the last corner. Certainly the centres were correct and the edges properly formed, so everything up until corners was done correctly. Some of the tredges were misplaced at the end, so it was an execution error during corners rather than a memo error or incorrect commutator.


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## openseas (Nov 1, 2019)

mark49152 said:


> Mini comp report from me.
> 
> I hadn't cubed at all since Leeds in July, due to a sore finger and being busy at work, and have rarely been on the forums either. I wasn't sure I would go to UK Championships last weekend, but I tried a few 4BLD solves four days beforehand and found I could still do it and wasn't much slower. So I did a little 4BLD and MBLD practice each day and went along with low expectations of my results.
> 
> ...



Nice report & congrats!!!

I have a sore right thumb - not sure when but it does have impact when I cube a little bit aggressively. Trying to slowdown the pace these days, can’t do much big BLDs, unfortunately.


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## openseas (Nov 3, 2019)

I stopped by Japan on my way back to US for Japan Championship.

It’s a 3 day comp but skipping the last day, it ends Monday due to Japan’s Holiday schedule and I needed to come back for work. Not losing much but 5 BLD.

3BLD was actually good, I’ve got 3 success out of 6, all sub 1 min. I even made final ranked 16th @ 1st round, finished 13th @ final. 

Both 4BLD and MBLD were terrible, all DNF. MBLD was a miserable 1/13. The only positive thing was, after tons of review (back and forth, multiple times), was able to finish with 55min. Purely rime perspective, I think I can go up to 16-ish.
Execution wise, on the other hand, tons of works to do, including rotationless twist algs, more drilling on comms, etc.


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## SlechtValk (Nov 3, 2019)

Rant-mode:

Am I the only one getting annoyed and frustrated by post by young guys (my assumption) saying things like: "I have started cubing a short while ago (weeks, months) and average X seconds (X < 15). How do I get faster?"

If you started only a short while ago and are faster than many people will ever be no matter how hard they try, you have practised a lot, used many tutorials you do know where to find the stuff to improve further.

Stop annoying and frustrating those who will never be this fast!

Rant-over

Sent from my Nokia 7 plus using Tapatalk


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## One Wheel (Nov 3, 2019)

SlechtValk said:


> Rant-mode:
> 
> Am I the only one getting annoyed and frustrated by post by young guys (my assumption) saying things like: "I have started cubing a short while ago (weeks, months) and average X seconds (X < 15). How do I get faster?"
> 
> ...


A. Yes, that’s annoying 
B. I’ve decided that most of those kids are exaggerating how fast they are. “Usually sub-15” without more detail probably means “I got a couple of sub-15 singles, or close to it, and I think I can get more.”


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## AbsoRuud (Nov 3, 2019)

I'm not annoyed by it. It's a fast of life. Kids learn faster. There's this one kid in the Netherlands who started a year ago and he's in the top 10 with regular top 5 finishes.


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## SlechtValk (Nov 3, 2019)

AbsoRuud said:


> I'm not annoyed by it. It's a fast of life. Kids learn faster. There's this one kid in the Netherlands who started a year ago and he's in the top 10 with regular top 5 finishes.


It is not that I don't believe them.

But if you have learnt to solve so fast in a short amount of time you should know where to find to information to improve further.

And if you really want help, post example solves and/or give a breakdown of your times. That way people can give real tips and advice.

My feeling with posts like those is that they aren't real requests for help, but really boosts about how fast they are.

I know that my annoyance with these post is largely fueled by my own failure to become faster. I'm stuck around 30s for a long time...

Sent from my Nokia 7 plus using Tapatalk


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## One Wheel (Nov 3, 2019)

SlechtValk said:


> My feeling with posts like those is that they aren't real requests for help, but really boosts about how fast they are.



Seconded. It’s a classic humblebrag.


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## mark49152 (Nov 3, 2019)

SlechtValk said:


> Stop annoying and frustrating those who will never be this fast!


The fact is, youngsters improve way, way quicker than us oldies, and go further before hitting their limits. Even if there's an element of humblebragging involved, there's no point getting annoyed or frustrated about faster youngsters' progress or their desire to talk about it. Just enjoy your own progress and feel good about reaching your own goals - or if you're competitive, theres the oldies' rankings to watch!


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## openseas (Nov 3, 2019)

mark49152 said:


> The fact is, youngsters improve way, way quicker than us oldies, and go further before hitting their limits. Even if there's an element of humblebragging involved, there's no point getting annoyed or frustrated about faster youngsters' progress or their desire to talk about it. Just enjoy your own progress and feel good about reaching your own goals - or if you're competitive, theres the oldies' rankings to watch!



Completely agree!


That’s what kids do - brag about their progress but also complain not achieving their goals so quickly (then they expected).

and that’s another reason we have our own thread for oldies.


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## Miguel.Brazil (Nov 4, 2019)

I dont mind about other cubers times . I really enjoy the learning process , now Im very happy with my time ( now betwen 40s -50s for me a wonderfull time !) im improving slowly, perform the algorithms is great pleasure. My goal is tô reach my personal limits. Cubing is Just one of my interests in life .


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## GAN 356 X (Nov 4, 2019)

Difference between older and younger cubers. I find my dad uses mnemonics to remember ales whereas I spam TPS.


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## mark49152 (Nov 5, 2019)

GAN 356 X said:


> Difference between older and younger cubers. I find my dad uses mnemonics to remember ales whereas I spam TPS.


Generally his videos are pretty good, but there's not much I agree with in this one.


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## SlechtValk (Nov 5, 2019)

mark49152 said:


> Generally his videos are pretty good, but there's not much I agree with in this one.


What is he so wrong about in your opinion?

Things like these are always major generalisations, but I find myself pretty far to the right om the practise-learn new things scale.

It is hard for me to find the time and motivation to practise what I know. That takes a lot of energie and focus. It is easier to find the next tutorial for the next event than to get my 3x3 cross times below X seconds.

Since I restarted cubing about a month ago I have learnt (but not mastered) new methods for solving the 4x4, 5x5 and megaminx, started to learn a new event (square-1) and started practising ways to improve cross and f2l.

But I haven't done a single timed session of 12 solves on any event yet... 

Sent from my Nokia 7 plus using Tapatalk


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## bossel (Nov 5, 2019)

I completely fall into the category of the old that wants to know every algorithm. I first learnt basic F2L, the 2look PLL and 2look OLL.
Then I was intrigued by full PLL and learned it, took a few weeks. Then some time ago I looked int full OLL and got addicted to it. I know all of the moves now, but need to learn them much better (still need my cheat-sheet a lot) (but don't need my full PLL cheat sheet anymore!!).

So yes in the end, given that I don't practice too much, there is not many repeating of each alg.
At this stage I might still be faster with just using 2look OLL, maybe sometimes 2look PLL.
But I assume that, and speed is not the final goal at the moment. When it bores me, I put the cube away and turn on the TV, it's just a hobby after all (my wife would still say it's an obsession ) )

I take this as a long term trip, and eventually times will come down.

There is another JPerm Video 'Look ahead is a disctraction' where he describe the 3 stages of learning as
1 - Know your moves
2 - Turn fast
3 - Look ahead

As this is just 3 steps, that's something I can remember  and plan to follow.

I am somewhere at the end of phase 1 and starting phase 2 - I am a a pretty slow turner and need to improve finger tricks and muscle memory.


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## CLL Smooth (Nov 5, 2019)

I find these to be some pretty bold generalizations myself. I’ve seen myself teeter back and forth between these two schools of thought over the past 8-9 years of my cubing experience. However, most of my time is clearly spent practicing stuff I’ve already learned by simply doing solves. I see it as less of an older/younger comparison and more of a personality type and/or life situation difference in specific cubers. 
Edit: retracted my last statement as I misunderstood how he categorized older/younger cuber


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## mark49152 (Nov 5, 2019)

SlechtValk said:


> What is he so wrong about in your opinion?


I just think it's a gross over-simplification. 

While it's reasonable to talk about a spectrum of attitudes, from emphasis on practice to emphasis on study, I don't personally see much correlation with age. If I look around at the cubers I know, and the forums and FB groups, I see plenty of examples of youngsters learning new things and oldsters content to just practise - it really just comes down to the interests and motivations of the individual. IMHO it's a stretch to claim it as "the difference" between older and younger cubers, as if it's not only the primary difference but the only significant one.


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## chron0s (Nov 8, 2019)

Gonna jump in here and introduce myself, hope that's ok - I've been lightly active on the forum over my cubing journey so far but not a big poster - I'm an oldcuber and came into the hobby / sport a few years ago (no formal comp experience but plenty of solves at home), lately having fun getting more systematic about progress.

I saw JPerms video and personally it resonated with me and pointed the way forward - despite being old, I've been lazy about learning algs throughout my cubing evolution - in 3x3 I use 2-look OLL and PLL and I've both seen the benefits of drilling a smaller set of algs (I average ~23 seconds without any strong last layer skills) and am also facing a recent wall in my progression with my last layer - I was able to get some improvements by drilling better algs for 2-look but I'm at a point where last-layer wise I need to branch into full PLL and get my recognition good to make more improvements on my averages. I'm working on full PLL and training recognition is a new challenge. Despite being old(er), I don't have a particular study discipline to rely on with cubing so maybe I am young at heart  I liked the solves JPerm showed at the end of that video - 30 second averages with careful recognition and quality execution.

Anyway honored to be among you all, there's no age limit to cubing!


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## Tom Joad (Nov 8, 2019)

chron0s said:


> Gonna jump in here and introduce myself, hope that's ok - I've been lightly active on the forum over my cubing journey so far but not a big poster - I'm an oldcuber and came into the hobby / sport a few years ago (no formal comp experience but plenty of solves at home), lately having fun getting more systematic about progress.
> 
> I saw JPerms video and personally it resonated with me and pointed the way forward - despite being old, I've been lazy about learning algs throughout my cubing evolution - in 3x3 I use 2-look OLL and PLL and I've both seen the benefits of drilling a smaller set of algs (I average ~23 seconds without any strong last layer skills) and am also facing a recent wall in my progression with my last layer - I was able to get some improvements by drilling better algs for 2-look but I'm at a point where last-layer wise I need to branch into full PLL and get my recognition good to make more improvements on my averages. I'm working on full PLL and training recognition is a new challenge. Despite being old(er), I don't have a particular study discipline to rely on with cubing so maybe I am young at heart  I liked the solves JPerm showed at the end of that video - 30 second averages with careful recognition and quality execution.
> 
> Anyway honored to be among you all, there's no age limit to cubing!



Once you know a pll alg, drill it and get nearly all of them sub 2 seconds. Record your times - this is a great motivational tool.

Also learn two sided pll recognition. There are loads of resources out there to help with this.


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## time4d (Nov 8, 2019)

Hi, I'm old but new to this forum.

I just did an intro post about myself here.


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## Tom Joad (Nov 9, 2019)

time4d said:


> Hi, I'm old but new to this forum.
> 
> I just did an intro post about myself here.



There will be plenty on here having a chuckle at a 29 year old turning up and calling himself old.

Check out the over 40s rankings and see how you do as you strive to become the best in the world... in 2030

11 years to become sub 10... Easy!


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## time4d (Nov 9, 2019)

Haha. Well, I just hope I'll still be cubing in 10 years......


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## mark49152 (Nov 9, 2019)

Tom Joad said:


> There will be plenty on here having a chuckle at a 29 year old turning up and calling himself old.


Quote: "really too old to be actively involved in speedcubing events or forums"

Not chuckling at that I'm afraid, it's actually rather sad. Just get yourself involved and have some fun with it!


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## time4d (Nov 9, 2019)

Who knows, I may give it a try


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## Jason Green (Nov 9, 2019)

Hey guys, haven't been on the forum in ages! I did my first comp today in almost a year (a year tomorrow actually). I haven't been practicing much and averaged 20.87 in 3x3, 1:20 in 4x4. I did have 1:06 which is pretty good for me even when I was in practice.  It was fun like always! One of these days I hope to practice more again, we just moved and life has been pretty busy!


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## mark49152 (Nov 9, 2019)

Welcome back, Jason! Those are pretty good times considering the long break.


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## Jason Green (Nov 10, 2019)

mark49152 said:


> Welcome back, Jason! Those are pretty good times considering the long break.


Thanks Mark! I've peeked in the thread probably less than a dozen times over the last year and know there's lots of new cubers here (at least I think). It kind of feels weird... like I'm an outsider where I used to belong. I thought today might motivate me to get back into it, and it definitely does feel motivating yet I'm worried if it will matter. Doubling the number of kids in the household really takes a toll on your schedule.


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## Jason Green (Nov 10, 2019)

mark49152 said:


> I just think it's a gross over-simplification.
> 
> While it's reasonable to talk about a spectrum of attitudes, from emphasis on practice to emphasis on study, I don't personally see much correlation with age. If I look around at the cubers I know, and the forums and FB groups, I see plenty of examples of youngsters learning new things and oldsters content to just practise - it really just comes down to the interests and motivations of the individual. IMHO it's a stretch to claim it as "the difference" between older and younger cubers, as if it's not only the primary difference but the only significant one.


I just watched the video. I also think it misses the main differences (well it mentions them but doesn't give them much weight). I think the three biggest are being young (meaning a more sponge like mind, better visual recognition, faster reflexes, etc.), the amount of time to practice, and turn speed (related to being young also). Look at PLL and OLL algs, the fast kids can do most of them in under a second, I have drilled them for many hours and don't know if I can do any in one second (see practice time also, maybe not enough hours). For me deciding to learn full PLL and OLL was not because I was more inclined to study, I actually leaned the other way. But someone pointed out if it takes over 2 seconds to do an alg and I can do 1 instead of 2 that's as huge savings. I have no doubt that paid off, but a lot of the other things like winter variation I was not convinced would be worth it for me and have not done.

I would love to see a follow up from J Perm when he is in his mid 40s. Of course getting fast at a young age may have an effect we do not know about yet (since I do not think there are any sub 10 average cubers who have reached their 40s yet).


----------



## openseas (Nov 11, 2019)

Welcome back @Jason Green !!!

Actually, we met last Saturday (yesterday) in a Fort Worth Competition. It's really great to see him - been a really long time, walking around by himself!
The competition schedule was too tight & too many competitors, didn't have enough time to catch up. Let's do it next time!

BTW, broke my PR single for 3BLD single, 46.73. It was a 10 alg for me (6 edges, 3 corners, one parity = OP corner) but nice RUD algs.
Finished 3rd, 26th podium overall, and 8th Father-Son podium with Jeff


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## mark49152 (Nov 12, 2019)

openseas said:


> BTW, broke my PR single for 3BLD single, 46.73. It was a 10 alg for me (6 edges, 3 corners, one parity = OP corner) but nice RUD algs.


Nice. I don't suppose you took video? It's a disappointment not seeing you solve! What are your splits?

@Jason Green, I agree with all your points. Not sure how old J-perm is but I guess we'll be waiting a while


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## openseas (Nov 12, 2019)

mark49152 said:


> Nice. I don't suppose you took video? It's a disappointment not seeing you solve! What are your splits?
> 
> @Jason Green, I agree with all your points. Not sure how old J-perm is but I guess we'll be waiting a while



According to the audience, 20 / 26.

at home, averaging roughly 55s, 25 / 30 split


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## mark49152 (Nov 12, 2019)

openseas said:


> According to the audience, 20 / 26.
> 
> at home, averaging roughly 55s, 25 / 30 split


Mine are about the same. My 3BLD memo always seems a bit slower in comp - I think nerves cause a little hesitation. That's why I prefer the longer events.

My PR from a few weeks ago:-


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## SenorJuan (Nov 13, 2019)

I see Mike Logiqx has uploaded some video's he took at the UK Champs:
https://www.youtube.com/user/BrogK888/videos?disable_polymer=1


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## openseas (Nov 14, 2019)

mark49152 said:


> Mine are about the same. My 3BLD memo always seems a bit slower in comp - I think nerves cause a little hesitation. That's why I prefer the longer events.
> 
> My PR from a few weeks ago:-



Yes, true. Not only nerves, but also not jumping to execution immediately like home practice - hesitation or confirmation?


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## mark49152 (Nov 14, 2019)

openseas said:


> Yes, true. Not only nerves, but also not jumping to execution immediately like home practice - hesitation or confirmation?


Both I guess. Competition pressure makes me want to have confidence in the memo before committing, whereas at home I would go "by the seat of the pants". It's like every solve is a little bit a safety solve, although without the improved success rate


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## GAN 356 X (Nov 14, 2019)

GAN 356 X said:


> Difference between older and younger cubers. I find my dad uses mnemonics to remember ales whereas I spam TPS.


Another difference seems to be us younger cubers post short replies on the forums whereas older cubers write and compose a detailed reply.


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## Jason Green (Nov 15, 2019)

GAN 356 X said:


> Another difference seems to be us younger cubers post short replies on the forums whereas older cubers write and compose a detailed reply.


I'm young at heart that way... Sometimes.


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## Jason Green (Nov 15, 2019)

mark49152 said:


> Nice. I don't suppose you took video? It's a disappointment not seeing you solve! What are your splits?
> 
> @Jason Green, I agree with all your points. Not sure how old J-perm is but I guess we'll be waiting a while


It seems the group is a bit different than a year ago. Used to be if I missed two days it would take me an hour to catch up! Are the oldies more into the Facebook group these days?


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## EngiNerdBrian (Nov 15, 2019)

Hey all, 
I just wanted to say hello and introduce myself. I've been away from cubing since i graduated college in 2012 and am recently getting back into things. I don't want to set records but i am looking forward to learning some of the more advanced ideas i wrote off back in the day and getting back to ~30sec solves. I also really enjoy big cubes and the minxs as pure puzzles and not necessarily speed. I look forward to meeting and chatting with you all. Cheers,


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## mark49152 (Nov 15, 2019)

Jason Green said:


> It seems the group is a bit different than a year ago. Used to be if I missed two days it would take me an hour to catch up! Are the oldies more into the Facebook group these days?


Yes it's quieter around here these days, and the FB group has certainly had an impact. 

Welcome, @EngineeringBrian !


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## One Wheel (Nov 18, 2019)

Just had a disappointingly nice single. The timer didn't start the first time, accidentally rescrambled with the same scramble and got a 16.60. I think my first 16, but I've had a couple of 15s.

Scramble (green front, white top):
D F2 D' L2 D2 U' L2 B2 F2 U2 R' U' L2 B2 U F2 R' F L R

Solution (red front, yellow top):
F' R' F cross
L U' L R' U' R F' U F 1st pair
R' U R U F U F 2nd pair
U' B Rw' U' Rw 3rd pair
z(?) U L U' L' U L U L' 4th pair
U2 Fw R U R'U' Fw' OLL
U' F R U' R' U' R U R' F' R U R' U' R' F R F' PLL

57 moves.


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## Tom Joad (Nov 18, 2019)

One Wheel said:


> Just had a disappointingly nice single. The timer didn't start the first time, accidentally rescrambled with the same scramble and got a 16.60. I think my first 16, but I've had a couple of 15s.
> 
> Scramble (green front, white top):
> D F2 D' L2 D2 U' L2 B2 F2 U2 R' U' L2 B2 U F2 R' F L R
> ...



Random tip: try the cross as R’B’R instead (with blue at the front).


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## Oldmancfop (Nov 18, 2019)

I've been using the Dayan TengYun M for about 6 months, it's a lovely cube but I just fancy a change. It's expensive but I'm tempted with the 356xs. Anyone tried it yet?


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## JohnnyReggae (Nov 18, 2019)

Oldmancfop said:


> I've been using the Dayan TengYun M for about 6 months, it's a lovely cube but I just fancy a change. It's expensive but I'm tempted with the 356xs. Anyone tried it yet?


I have the X and the XS and I'm torn at the moment. I've been using the GAN X for about a year now and it's an amazing cube. Even compared to the XS it is still the smoothest cube I have. It is quiet as well which help when I'm doing a few solves at my desk at work.

The XS is super light and really easy to turn. This is where I am struggling at the moment. It is so effortless to turn that it's much harder to control than the X. Even with the magnets set to full strength it turns really easily. I like it a lot and can get great times on it, although it is less consistent than the X for me. The XS is also makes more noise.

Either will be good, but going forward you're probably better off going with the XS because of the easier customisation.


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## Oldmancfop (Nov 18, 2019)

JohnnyReggae said:


> I have the X and the XS and I'm torn at the moment. I've been using the GAN X for about a year now and it's an amazing cube. Even compared to the XS it is still the smoothest cube I have. It is quiet as well which help when I'm doing a few solves at my desk at work.
> 
> The XS is super light and really easy to turn. This is where I am struggling at the moment. It is so effortless to turn that it's much harder to control than the X. Even with the magnets set to full strength it turns really easily. I like it a lot and can get great times on it, although it is less consistent than the X for me. The XS is also makes more noise.
> 
> Either will be good, but going forward you're probably better off going with the XS because of the easier customisation.


Hmm, now I'm torn, I really like quiet, I also really like easy to turn (my turning tps is very slow), this is steering me toward the X.


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## Oldmancfop (Nov 18, 2019)

JohnnyReggae said:


> I have the X and the XS and I'm torn at the moment. I've been using the GAN X for about a year now and it's an amazing cube. Even compared to the XS it is still the smoothest cube I have. It is quiet as well which help when I'm doing a few solves at my desk at work.
> 
> The XS is super light and really easy to turn. This is where I am struggling at the moment. It is so effortless to turn that it's much harder to control than the X. Even with the magnets set to full strength it turns really easily. I like it a lot and can get great times on it, although it is less consistent than the X for me. The XS is also makes more noise.
> 
> Either will be good, but going forward you're probably better off going with the XS because of the easier customisation.


It's the stickerless version that I would be interested in. The XS looks like it has a frosted surface finish which appeals to me. Is the X the same?


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## JohnnyReggae (Nov 18, 2019)

Oldmancfop said:


> Hmm, now I'm torn, I really like quiet, I also really like easy to turn (my turning tps is very slow), this is steering me toward the X.
> 
> It's the stickerless version that I would be interested in. The XS looks like it has a frosted surface finish which appeals to me. Is the X the same?


I also prefer a cube that turns easier, my fingers can't do long sessions with a cube that's harder to turn so I do like the XS for that. At the moment though I feel i'm working harder with it than the X just because I'm trying to control it more while turning. It's just something to get used to and I'm sure I will be moving onto the XS as my main. For now I'm using both the X and XS.

I went for stickerless because I made the move a while back already. The frosted surface looks great but it is harder to grip and my fingers tend to slip more easily. Again, it's something that can get worked on with some time


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## Oldmancfop (Nov 18, 2019)

GAN 356 X said:


> Another difference seems to be us younger cubers post short replies on the forums whereas older cubers write and compose a detailed reply.


Ha, Ha, watching the guy solving around the 30 second mark was just like watching myself, I am officially an old, slow turning cuber.


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## AbsoRuud (Nov 18, 2019)

Oldmancfop said:


> I've been using the Dayan TengYun M for about 6 months, it's a lovely cube but I just fancy a change. It's expensive but I'm tempted with the 356xs. Anyone tried it yet?


If you want something completely different from the TengYun and you don't want to spend an arm and a leg, try the Thunderclap V3 M. It's loud, clacky, heavy and snappy. 

If you want something similar to the TengYun... just use the TengYun.


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## Oldmancfop (Nov 18, 2019)

AbsoRuud said:


> If you want something completely different from the TengYun and you don't want to spend an arm and a leg, try the Thunderclap V3 M. It's loud, clacky, heavy and snappy.
> 
> If you want something similar to the TengYun... just use the TengYun.


Yep, not sure the thunderclap's the one for me!


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## AbsoRuud (Nov 18, 2019)

Oldmancfop said:


> Yep, not sure the thunderclap's the one for me!


I hated it at first, I was very disappointed, but now I kind of love it. I get my best times on it, including sub 20s (My PB single is 16) and my PB Ao5 of 21.71, so I can't complain. I have basically 5 cubes to choose from now that all get me good times: Supernova Yuxin Little Magic M, MeiLong 3 M medium, MeiLong 3 M strong, DaYan TengYun 3x3x3 M and Thunderclap V3 M. But they're all very different. The MeiLong Ms are both fairly flexible, fast and light, they require a very light turning style. The YLM is very stable, but light and you can get a little rough with it and it won't lock up or anything, very good cube. The DaYan you know, the Thunderclap I already described. 

I also have the GTS2, which is very good, but mine is stock, because it's my first speedcube and I am not gonna do anything with it, including lubing, magnetizing and tensioning. There's also the YuLong V2 M, but I don't like it as much now that I'm 10-15 seconds faster than when I bought it. It locks up a lot at higher tps. The Kylin V2 M is very stable and quiet, but it's not a cube I get my best times on. It's a bit locky and stiff. I personally still like the Warrior W, but I wouldn't recommend it to anyone who is sub 30. It's fun to solve with though, and it makes you turn slower, so it's good as a practice cube.


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## Oldmancfop (Nov 18, 2019)

AbsoRuud said:


> I hated it at first, I was very disappointed, but now I kind of love it. I get my best times on it, including sub 20s (My PB single is 16) and my PB Ao5 of 21.71, so I can't complain. I have basically 5 cubes to choose from now that all get me good times: Supernova Yuxin Little Magic M, MeiLong 3 M medium, MeiLong 3 M strong, DaYan TengYun 3x3x3 M and Thunderclap V3 M. But they're all very different. The MeiLong Ms are both fairly flexible, fast and light, they require a very light turning style. The YLM is very stable, but light and you can get a little rough with it and it won't lock up or anything, very good cube. The DaYan you know, the Thunderclap I already described.
> 
> I also have the GTS2, which is very good, but mine is stock, because it's my first speedcube and I am not gonna do anything with it, including lubing, magnetizing and tensioning. There's also the YuLong V2 M, but I don't like it as much now that I'm 10-15 seconds faster than when I bought it. It locks up a lot at higher tps. The Kylin V2 M is very stable and quiet, but it's not a cube I get my best times on. It's a bit locky and stiff. I personally still like the Warrior W, but I wouldn't recommend it to anyone who is sub 30. It's fun to solve with though, and it makes you turn slower, so it's good as a practice cube.


Lots of info here, much appreciated. I'm averaging at 25-27 seconds, anything sub 25 is a good time for me. I've had a non magnet Gan Air, absolutely hated the GES nuts, MoYu gts3, loved when I bought it, very stable but I now find the magnets too strong. The TengYun has been great but my fingers stick to it if they get a little damp, or slip off it it if they get very dry, it's smooth and quiet but even with my slow tps it seems a bit unstable if I try a fast pll. The 356XS appealed for it easy spring/magnet strength adjustment, the frosted finish (which I imagine may bit a bit slippery but hopefully consistent without the grip extremes of the Tengyun) and hopefully a stable cube as I start to get a little faster. I also like the look of the XS. If it was £15 less I would buy it without hesitation.


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## GAN 356 X (Nov 18, 2019)

Oldmancfop said:


> It's the stickerless version that I would be interested in. The XS looks like it has a frosted surface finish which appeals to me. Is the X the same?


The X is very glossy


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## Oldmancfop (Nov 18, 2019)

GAN 356 X said:


> The X is very glossy


Thanks, think the xs is winning, shame it isn't as quiet.


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## Oldmancfop (Nov 20, 2019)

Cross solutions? After a year of learning the cube there are still many occasions where I cannot see an elegant and efficient solution to the cross. Using the following scramble as an example:
(green front, white top) U2 R L U' L R2 U2 R' U L' R' U' B' U2 D' F2 B D2 B' R
I always do a white cross, the best I can come up with is: (blue front, white bottom) R' U' F' L F' U2 R B2 F'
Suggestions to a better solution?


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## openseas (Nov 20, 2019)

Oldmancfop said:


> Cross solutions? After a year of learning the cube there are still many occasions where I cannot see an elegant and efficient solution to the cross. Using the following scramble as an example:
> (green front, white top) U2 R L U' L R2 U2 R' U L' R' U' B' U2 D' F2 B D2 B' R
> I always do a white cross, the best I can come up with is: (blue front, white bottom) R' U' F' L F' U2 R B2 F'
> Suggestions to a better solution?



I'm not good at this but found an interesting slice move cross: x' y (red front / blue top) S' R' D R2 D F'


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## Tom Joad (Nov 20, 2019)

Oldmancfop said:


> Cross solutions? After a year of learning the cube there are still many occasions where I cannot see an elegant and efficient solution to the cross. Using the following scramble as an example:
> (green front, white top) U2 R L U' L R2 U2 R' U L' R' U' B' U2 D' F2 B D2 B' R
> I always do a white cross, the best I can come up with is: (blue front, white bottom) R' U' F' L F' U2 R B2 F'
> Suggestions to a better solution?



Facing green.... L U F’ L D2 L2

Or, finish with a wide U2 R2 then put your green orange pair in the back


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## Oldmancfop (Nov 20, 2019)

I have never used slice moves and can't get this to work, is your suggestion the equivalent to: (White bottom, blue front) M' B' D B2 D R'?


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## Tom Joad (Nov 20, 2019)

Oldmancfop said:


> I have never used slice moves and can't get this to work, is your suggestion the equivalent to: (White bottom, blue front) M' B' D B2 D R'?



Yes his slice is just like the M B combination you describe with white bottom... edit, I mean F B combo


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## Oldmancfop (Nov 20, 2019)

Tom Joad said:


> Facing green.... L U F’ L D2 L2
> 
> Or, finish with a wide U2 R2 then put your green orange pair in the back


Nice!


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## openseas (Nov 20, 2019)

Oldmancfop said:


> I have never used slice moves and can't get this to work, is your suggestion the equivalent to: (White bottom, blue front) M' B' D B2 D R'?



M U' B U2 B R'


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## Oldmancfop (Nov 20, 2019)

openseas said:


> M U' B U2 B R'


Got it, both solutions waaay better than mine, I'll execute them a few times see what I can glean, thanks!


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## Tom Joad (Nov 20, 2019)

Oldmancfop said:


> Got it, both solutions waaay better than mine, I'll execute them a few times see what I can glean, thanks!



If you want to have a laugh executing it almost regriplessly try L U F’ wideR F2 L2


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## Oldmancfop (Nov 20, 2019)

Ca


Tom Joad said:


> If you want to have a laugh executing it almost regriplessly try L U F’ wideR F2 L2


Can't seem to get this one to work, what's the start position?


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## Mike Hughey (Nov 20, 2019)

Tom Joad said:


> Facing green.... L U F’ L D2 L2


I was going to try to contribute the first thing I saw when inspecting it - and this is exactly what I came up with too.


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## Tom Joad (Nov 20, 2019)

Mike Hughey said:


> I was going to try to contribute the first thing I saw when inspecting it - and this is exactly what I came up with too.



Home grip

It’s the same as the first one I posted but after three moves, to insert orange, instead of L just flick the wideR up so white is on the front...


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## Oldmancfop (Nov 20, 2019)

Tom Joad said:


> Home grip
> 
> It’s the same as the first one I posted but after three moves, to insert orange, instead of L just flick the wideR up so white is on the front...


I see, I like, I'll get there, I think!


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## Tom Joad (Nov 20, 2019)

Oldmancfop said:


> I see, I like, I'll get there, I think!



Check out jperms cross video on youtube.

It’s not his first one or second, it’s from about a month ago and is all about efficient finger trick-friendly solutions.

He does about ten examples, first giving you the scramble then asking you to pause and find your own solution then watch his solution.

You could spend a whole hour just thinking about each one. To just watch it once from start to finish would miss the point, I think.

I keep meaning to go back to it. My cross solutions are poor when it is more than five moves and I need a lot of time to think about things to come up with a good solution. I only posted the one above after being inspired by open seas slice suggestion which made me start thinking about it.

Anyway happy cubing


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## Oldmancfop (Nov 20, 2019)

Tom Joad said:


> Check out jperms cross video on youtube.
> 
> It’s not his first one or second, it’s from about a month ago and is all about efficient finger trick-friendly solutions.
> 
> ...


Thanks, sounds good, I'll check it out. If nothing else it might serve as inspiration and encourage me to stop being lazy with my cross.


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## Oldmancfop (Dec 11, 2019)

There doesn't seem to be a lot of activity on this thread anymore. Have all older cubers come to their senses and given up or are discussions now held elsewhere?


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## One Wheel (Dec 11, 2019)

Oldmancfop said:


> There doesn't seem to be a lot of activity on this thread anymore. Have all older cubers come to their senses and given up or are discussions now held elsewhere?


I think Facebook may have taken yet another victim. I don’t have Facebook as a matter of principle and because I find Facebook both as a concept and as a company terrifying. I’m still cubing, pissed at the WCA for their handling of Feet, and organizing a competition at the end of this month (Feet) and hopefully in February (big cubes).


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## SpartanSailor (Dec 11, 2019)

Oldmancfop said:


> There doesn't seem to be a lot of activity on this thread anymore. Have all older cubers come to their senses and given up or are discussions now held elsewhere?


I think discussions have shifted to Facebook. I too, am still cubing. Mostly just lots and lots of 3x3. Have put more focus on 4x4 over the past few months, but recently not much time available. So, again.... just lots of 3x3 solves. Hopefully my lookahead is improving. Next comp is Jan 11. We will see what happens there.


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## Oldmancfop (Dec 11, 2019)

Perhaps one day I'll pluck up the nerve to enter a comp, the idea of being the only competitor over the age of 16 freaks me out. The only comp within a reasonable distance from me is the Weston-Super-Mare open but it looks a bit of a serious big comp, a lot of the big names were there.


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## Oldmancfop (Dec 11, 2019)

What should I be searching for on Facebook, is there anything specifically for older cubers or just general chat?


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## SpartanSailor (Dec 11, 2019)

I’m pretty much always among the oldest competitors.  I think there are 3 of us locally that are “old”. Although the 20yo “kids” seem to think they are old now, but they’re still kids to me... and I remind them of that too! Hahahaha. Then, they smoke me in the comp and we all have fun. 

I wouldn’t let your age be a concern. No one cares how old you are. Nor do the care how fast you are - they may ask, but for curiosity. Most people are there to compete against themselves.


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## AbsoRuud (Dec 11, 2019)

Topics that were being discussed were 90% about blindfolded solving. There's threads for that. I still feel this thread should be about the specific things that are different for old cubers.


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## One Wheel (Dec 11, 2019)

AbsoRuud said:


> Topics that were being discussed were 90% about blindfolded solving. There's threads for that. I still feel this thread should be about the specific things that are different for old cubers.


Older cubers aren’t that drastically different than younger cubers. Just talking about what is unique about older cubers is pretty narrow.


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## SpartanSailor (Dec 11, 2019)

One Wheel said:


> Older cubers aren’t that drastically different than younger cubers. Just talking about what is unique about older cubers is pretty narrow.


True... we just happen to be older.


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## One Wheel (Dec 11, 2019)

SpartanSailor said:


> True... we just happen to be older.


I’m just an overgrown kid myself.


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## AbsoRuud (Dec 11, 2019)

SpartanSailor said:


> True... we just happen to be older.


Then there's your explanation why this topic is dying out.


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## SpartanSailor (Dec 11, 2019)

AbsoRuud said:


> Then there's your explanation why this topic is dying out.


We’re not THAT old!


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## openseas (Dec 11, 2019)

SpartanSailor said:


> I think discussions have shifted to Facebook. I too, am still cubing. Mostly just lots and lots of 3x3. Have put more focus on 4x4 over the past few months, but recently not much time available. So, again.... just lots of 3x3 solves. Hopefully my lookahead is improving. Next comp is Jan 11. We will see what happens there.



I have next five weeks weekly comps  scheduled to delegate.


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## Tom Joad (Dec 11, 2019)

I’m still here.

Will be posting again soon... just need to find the time to do a few thousand solves to get back to where I was...


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## mark49152 (Dec 12, 2019)

Oldmancfop said:


> Perhaps one day I'll pluck up the nerve to enter a comp, the idea of being the only competitor over the age of 16 freaks me out. The only comp within a reasonable distance from me is the Weston-Super-Mare open but it looks a bit of a serious big comp, a lot of the big names were there.


You would not have been the only oldster at WSM. There were at least 8 competitors over 40. One of the better senior turn-outs in the UK.


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## CLL Smooth (Dec 12, 2019)

Oldmancfop said:


> There doesn't seem to be a lot of activity on this thread anymore. Have all older cubers come to their senses and given up or are discussions now held elsewhere?


I still browse the forums on occasion but I’ve never really had much to contribute. On the topic of comps, I just had a dream where I was heading to one but decided to stop for pizza and beer instead. In the dream I was explaining to a friend about how I never really liked going to comps anyway. So we stayed and had more beer and pizza!
My comp mentality has mostly been to go there and get official pbs. I’ve never been too into social activities and large groups of people. When it stopped becoming a given that I would get a pb, it became more nerve racking than fun for me. I still cube nearly everyday though.


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## Oldmancfop (Dec 12, 2019)

One Wheel said:


> Older cubers aren’t that drastically different than younger cubers. Just talking about what is unique about older cubers is pretty narrow.


Discussion on this thread seems to be very broad, not just what is unique to older cubers. Personally I like to post here because I know posts will be read/answered by cubers of a similar age with possibly similar expectations/goals and be aware of some of the obstacles of being older (work/family commitments, slower manual dexterity, sllooowwwinnng braaaaaiiiiiinnnnn)


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## Old Tom (Dec 12, 2019)

SpartanSailor said:


> I think discussions have shifted to Facebook. I too, am still cubing. Mostly just lots and lots of 3x3. Have put more focus on 4x4 over the past few months, but recently not much time available. So, again.... just lots of 3x3 solves. Hopefully my lookahead is improving. Next comp is Jan 11. We will see what happens there.


I am just getting back to cubing after a necessary break of more than a year where I simply had no mental energy or focus to even pick up a cube. I am back at it now. At 81 it is coming back slowly: the 3x3 was easy (though I am NOT FAST). The 3BLD is proving a challenge. The OP methodology is fine, memory is about the same, but J seem to have lost some "precision" in the execution. Tend to make a wrong twist (oops) and then not recover. I think practice will fix that. I do also post in the FB group, but this place in past was super for helpful advice.


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## AbsoRuud (Dec 13, 2019)

Old Tom said:


> I am just getting back to cubing after a necessary break of more than a year where I simply had no mental energy or focus to even pick up a cube. I am back at it now. At 81 it is coming back slowly: the 3x3 was easy (though I am NOT FAST). The 3BLD is proving a challenge. The OP methodology is fine, memory is about the same, but J seem to have lost some "precision" in the execution. Tend to make a wrong twist (oops) and then not recover. I think practice will fix that. I do also post in the FB group, but this place in past was super for helpful advice.


Welcome back, Tom. I still think you're awesome and I'd love to still be cubing at your age.


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## EngiNerdBrian (Dec 13, 2019)

2 things. How old is old in your opinion? I’m 29 but that still feels “old” in the cubing community. As you’ve aged how has your cubing interests changed? I started out just wanting to be fast and now I find myself trying to be more elegant in solutions, solving big cubes for fun and not for speed and trying to learn new non cubic puzzles on my own without online tutorials etc. The prospect of FMC sounds interesting now b/c of how well you’d have to understand cube mechanics while that never would have appealed to me when I was younger.
I definitely feel like the old guy “studying” in the Jperm video of the topic


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## pglewis (Dec 13, 2019)

EngineeringBrian said:


> [...] How old is old in your opinion? I’m 29 but that still feels “old” in the cubing community. [...]



29 IS old in the cubing community and this thread has always been open and welcoming to anyone who feels old in this young sport. The officially unofficial senior rankings and stats start at 40, so you still have a way to go to really start feeling old


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## Oldmancfop (Dec 13, 2019)

EngineeringBrian said:


> 2 things. How old is old in your opinion? I’m 29 but that still feels “old” in the cubing community. As you’ve aged how has your cubing interests changed? I started out just wanting to be fast and now I find myself trying to be more elegant in solutions, solving big cubes for fun and not for speed and trying to learn new non cubic puzzles on my own without online tutorials etc. The prospect of FMC sounds interesting now b/c of how well you’d have to understand cube mechanics while that never would have appealed to me when I was younger.
> I definitely feel like the old guy “studying” in the Jperm video of the topic


How old is really a relative question, ask a 15 year old and they will tell you are old, I'm 49 and you are young. I think the important thing is at age 29 you are still very capable to learn and get good at things quicker than someone in their 60's. Elegant/efficient solves are not to be undervalued, watching someone smoothly solve a 3x3 in the low 20's without a rotation or pause is a thing of beauty.
What's the J perm clip you refer to, I would like to see it?


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## pglewis (Dec 13, 2019)

AbsoRuud said:


> Then there's your explanation why this topic is dying out.



The primary culprit is the "Senior Cubers Worldwide" group on Facebook. This thread was always more active before that group popped up and the FB group has quite a bit of daily traffic and from more people than than this thread typically had.


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## EngiNerdBrian (Dec 13, 2019)

Oldmancfop said:


> How old is really a relative question, ask a 15 year old and they will tell you are old, I'm 49 and you are young. I think the important thing is at age 29 you are still very capable to learn and get good at things quicker than someone in their 60's. Elegant/efficient solves are not to be undervalued, watching someone smoothly solve a 3x3 in the low 20's without a rotation or pause is a thing of beauty.
> What's the J perm clip you refer to, I would like to see it?


I agree it's relative, i was just collecting opinions on what this community considers "old." From a general life perspective i still feel very young at 29 but in this community it feels old. Below is the J-Perm video i was talking about, i think it was discussed a few pages back right as i was beginning to be active on the forum again. 





Also, i ditched Facebook a few months ago and i love it. I take issue with how social media has impacted the human condition over the last decade and I'm happy to be breaking free from that environment and internet habits. I do enjoy forums still, the OG social media! I do hope we can keep up some discussion in this thread as an community of older cubers.


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## pglewis (Dec 13, 2019)

EngineeringBrian said:


> [...] I do hope we can keep up some discussion in this thread as an community of older cubers.



The discovery of this thread was an oasis for me when I was just getting started and it'll always have a place in my heart. I still keep an eye on the activity here and plan to continue to do so.


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## openseas (Dec 13, 2019)

EngineeringBrian said:


> I agree it's relative, i was just collecting opinions on what this community considers "old." From a general life perspective i still feel very young at 29 but in this community it feels old. Below is the J-Perm video i was talking about, i think it was discussed a few pages back right as i was beginning to be active on the forum again.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I suspected old cubers from J-perm's video (old vs young) were more like 20-30-ish old not senior old since most of us here didn't agree with him. Looks like that is the case.


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## Oldmancfop (Dec 16, 2019)

Out of curiosity why do other older cubers solve?
I was an original 80's cuber, I remember seeing a clip of the first world championships on the news and being astounded by a 22 second solve! When my son turned 12 one of his gifts was a genuine Rubiks cube, I found some clips online of speedcubers to show him and could not believe what I was seeing, 5 seconds, WHAT! I had a fond sense of nostalgia toward the cube and was curious of the method used by the young speedcubers so set my self the challenge, would I be able to properly learn cfop at 50. No expectations beyond learning the method and perhaps breaking a minute. In the process I discovered that cubing is hugely satisfying and addictive. Now I can't put it down, ridiculous really, age 50 and devoting far too much time to a children's toy.
I would be curious to to hear the stories of other older cubers.


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## bossel (Dec 16, 2019)

Similar here, I learnt the cube back in the 80's on the school yard. Then it got somehow forgotten in a vitrine, and only last June I started looking into it again. Learnt CFOP, knowing all the algs by now, although a misturn can happen here and there... I wouldn't say it's a childrens toy, although you can use it as one. For me it's a portable brain and finger trainer


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## Oldmancfop (Dec 16, 2019)

bossel said:


> I wouldn't say it's a childrens toy, although you can use it as one. For me it's a portable brain and finger trainer


Nice a brainger trainer!


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## Old Tom (Dec 17, 2019)

pglewis said:


> The discovery of this thread was an oasis for me when I was just getting started and it'll always have a place in my heart. I still keep an eye on the activity here and plan to continue to do so.


This thread was astonishingly helpful for me when I stumbled on it about three years ago. Until that I had been just a lone LBL solver, since way back in the 80s. I was nudged by many in this group to do F2L, and then, huge step, blind solving. Had almost daily advice for a month while I learned that. Also "Spartan Sailor" mentored me at a comp in Fredericksburg, VA, and I got an official (but dreadfully slow) average on the 3x3. Had an unplanned and forced break for a year, but now back at it. I'm 81, so forget "relatively", I am old.


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## Old Tom (Dec 17, 2019)

Also, so far the FB group is mainly about "accomplishments", which is ok. This group was always more about nurturing, helping each other out.


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## GAN 356 X (Dec 17, 2019)

Old Tom said:


> This thread was astonishingly helpful for me when I stumbled on it about three years ago. Until that I had been just a lone LBL solver, since way back in the 80s. I was nudged by many in this group to do F2L, and then, huge step, blind solving. Had almost daily advice for a month while I learned that. Also "Spartan Sailor" mentored me at a comp in Fredericksburg, VA, and I got an official (but dreadfully slow) average on the 3x3. Had an unplanned and forced break for a year, but now back at it. I'm 81, so forget "relatively", I am old.


Wow, I am 13 and haven't learnt blind because I don't have the commitment to do so!


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## Oldmancfop (Dec 17, 2019)

Attempting 3x3 blind solving is tempting, I have looked into it briefly before, there were lots of T perms and alphabetic labelling of the cube. Are there various methods for blind solving and if so what is the most popular/fastest?


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## EngiNerdBrian (Dec 17, 2019)

Oldmancfop said:


> Attempting 3x3 blind solving is tempting, I have looked into it briefly before, there were lots of T perms and alphabetic labelling of the cube. Are there various methods for blind solving and if so what is the most popular/fastest?


Hey Tom, the “Old Pochmann” method is what I first used and sounds like the method you may have come across before which utilizes lots of T perms. I’d recommend that Method to first time blind solvers. 

Keep in mind you can name the stickers in the cube anything you like and I definitely did that when I first started, for some reason I didn’t want to have corners and edges with the same letter so I came up with my own more intuitive naming convention. I will switch to a different naming convention as i return to blind solving however.


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## openseas (Dec 17, 2019)

Oldmancfop said:


> Attempting 3x3 blind solving is tempting, I have looked into it briefly before, there were lots of T perms and alphabetic labelling of the cube. Are there various methods for blind solving and if so what is the most popular/fastest?


 
Most popular
in terms of speed : 3 style
in terms of easiness: OP
Intermediate: M2/OP, eka, Orozoco


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## One Wheel (Dec 17, 2019)

Oldmancfop said:


> Attempting 3x3 blind solving is tempting, I have looked into it briefly before, there were lots of T perms and alphabetic labelling of the cube. Are there various methods for blind solving and if so what is the most popular/fastest?


I personally recommend M2/OP. OP is a modified Y-perm for corners, M2 is much faster than OP edges and with the exception of M-slice targets entirely intuitive.


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## Old Tom (Dec 19, 2019)

Oldmancfop said:


> Attempting 3x3 blind solving is tempting, I have looked into it briefly before, there were lots of T perms and alphabetic labelling of the cube. Are there various methods for blind solving and if so what is the most popular/fastest?


I can tell you what’s the easiest: the Old Pochman method, but it is slow. However, you only need five algorithms to do it. Three actually, but five is more efficient. It is a piece by piece method which is why it is slow, but also why it is relatively easy.


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## AbsoRuud (Dec 19, 2019)

Old Tom said:


> I can tell you what’s the easiest: the Old Pochman method, but it is slow. However, you only need five algorithms to do it. Three actually, but five is more efficient. It is a piece by piece method which is why it is slow, but also why it is relatively easy.


Which 5 do you use? I only need 4.


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## openseas (Dec 19, 2019)

AbsoRuud said:


> Which 5 do you use? I only need 4.



Only 1 alg will work, too.

You can use T perm for both corner & edge, and swap UL/UR if there is a parity.
Same logic can be used for J perm, Y perm. Setup will be slightly more complicated, though.


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## PetrusQuber (Dec 19, 2019)

Old Tom said:


> I can tell you what’s the easiest: the Old Pochman method, but it is slow. However, you only need five algorithms to do it. Three actually, but five is more efficient. It is a piece by piece method which is why it is slow, but also why it is relatively easy.





AbsoRuud said:


> Which 5 do you use? I only need 4.


Isn’t it just T, Y, Ja and Jb?


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## narusite (Dec 19, 2019)

When I learned OP, I think I used T for edges, Y for corner, and a parity algorithm (?) Yes, Ja/Jb may help you, but if you want a "minimum" of speed, you won't use that. Anyway, here is the reference link.
Once you get the gist, you should go to M2/OP.


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## One Wheel (Dec 19, 2019)

PetrusQuber said:


> Isn’t it just T, Y, Ja and Jb?


When I was using OP edges I used an R-perm for parity.


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## PetrusQuber (Dec 19, 2019)

Ah yes, I’d forgotten about parity.


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## Old Tom (Dec 19, 2019)

PetrusQuber said:


> Isn’t it just T, Y, Ja and Jb?


You also need an alg to correct parity when necessary. I use Ra for that.


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## Mike Hughey (Dec 19, 2019)

openseas said:


> Only 1 alg will work, too.
> 
> You can use T perm for both corner & edge, and swap UL/UR if there is a parity.
> Same logic can be used for J perm, Y perm. Setup will be slightly more complicated, though.


My daughter actually learned this method many years ago (T perm). She struggled with learning algorithms, so a method with just one algorithm was ideal. She came 2 twisted corners away from being the youngest person (at that particular time) to ever solve a 3x3x3 BLD in WCA competition. So close - so sad.


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## Oldmancfop (Dec 20, 2019)

I've opted for the easiest OP method for now. The part that immediately strikes me as difficult is if when I working through my edges or corners I land on the buffer piece and have to start a new cycle from another unsolved piece, how to remember which unsolved pieces I have not yet taken into account, is there a trick for this?


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## PetrusQuber (Dec 20, 2019)

Oldmancfop said:


> I've opted for the easiest OP method for now. The part that immediately strikes me as difficult is if when I working through my edges or corners I land on the buffer piece and have to start a new cycle from another unsolved piece, how to remember which unsolved pieces I have not yet taken into account, is there a trick for this?


Not really, just cycle round the edges and see if they’re in the memo. There are only 12 to do. I just do top layer edges, middle layer edges, bottom layer edges. Don’t forgot an edge has two stickers, eg for Speffz D and E are the same.


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## bossel (Dec 20, 2019)

I can't even remember where all my edges and corners are with my eyes open ... ;-)


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## openseas (Dec 20, 2019)

Oldmancfop said:


> I've opted for the easiest OP method for now. The part that immediately strikes me as difficult is if when I working through my edges or corners I land on the buffer piece and have to start a new cycle from another unsolved piece, how to remember which unsolved pieces I have not yet taken into account, is there a trick for this?



In the beginning, people use fingers to track what has been traced but it will phase out once you stack enough experience.


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## mark49152 (Dec 21, 2019)

Oldmancfop said:


> I've opted for the easiest OP method for now. The part that immediately strikes me as difficult is if when I working through my edges or corners I land on the buffer piece and have to start a new cycle from another unsolved piece, how to remember which unsolved pieces I have not yet taken into account, is there a trick for this?


I think most people have a small set of targets they like to use to break into new cycles. Then as they memo, they mentally tick them off if they have been seen already and become unavailable to start new cycles. For example, for edges I prefer to start cycles on A, B, C or D. If I've traced through B and C then I'll keep note that A and D are still available. Very occasionally they'll all get used and I'll have to figure out another target to start on, but that's rare.


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## AbsoRuud (Dec 21, 2019)

PetrusQuber said:


> Isn’t it just T, Y, Ja and Jb?


I use Y modified, R perm, J perm and T perm. I don't know if it's Ja or Jb, it's the one with the J on the right.


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## BenChristman1 (Dec 21, 2019)

AbsoRuud said:


> I use Y modified, R perm, J perm and T perm. I don't know if it's Ja or Jb, it's the one with the J on the right.


That's Jb.


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## Old Tom (Dec 23, 2019)

I use mod Y, T, Ja, Jb, and Ra for parity correction. Ja and Jb are mirror images, which I find easy to memorize and execute as such.

As to new cycles, I am still at the stage where those are hard for me for edges, but the (fewer) corners are getting much easier. It helps to remember by “what’s left” rather then by “what’s done”, since the ones left are potential targets for the buffer piece, and they get fewer as the memo trace proceeds.

I also take a quick look at the start to identify flipped/twisted (add 1) and solved (deduct 1) pieces, so I know the count for the trace, which then increases by one each time I hit the buffer piece early on. The starting count is of course 7 for corners, 11 for edges. That way I always know how many moves are left, and I am then prepared to hit the buffer piece one final (or if lucky, only) time at the end, and this confirms that I am done. This really helps!


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## Old Tom (Dec 23, 2019)

There is another trick in the memo trace that is helping me also: suppose the pre-inspection of the corners shows one piece twisted. So, instead of remembering “8” moves, I focus on “6 plus 2”, then I am prepared to hit the buffer piece at “6”, followed by a double hit at the twisted location. I actually don’t mind the twist (or flip) at all then, since I get to “nearly done” more quickly.


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## openseas (Dec 24, 2019)

It's bee a while posting here  

Had a back-to-back comp last two weeks, did't do great. Out of 12 attempts (2round each), 2 success, both 50s.
It is a bit frustrating since my home success rate was improving, high 40%, stable around low 50s.
Positive thing was, all DNFs were 50s, even the slowest success (59s) was a safety solve (reviewed couple of times).

Drilling edge comms are kinda slow, still 40~50% range, need way more practice. Downside is, my corner comms are getting sloppy.

I also had big BLD attempts, all 6 DNFs :-(
Times were not good either - 2nd 4BLD was success but slight over 10min. It was within legal time limit of the comp but I was stupid and cocky, didn't ask the judge to start the stopwatch - so, a lost win. 5BLD was slightly under 20min DNF - couple of wings & T-center inverse comms.


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## One Wheel (Jan 1, 2020)

Today is a sad day in cubing: the removal of Feet is a dark stain on the reputation of the WCA. 

On a lighter note: I’m personally finishing the year on a good note. It scared the cows, but I got my first 4BLD success this evening.


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## One Wheel (Jan 2, 2020)

First full 5BLD attempt, I’m very happy with the result:

I can’t seem to attach both pictures to get the whole cube, but I think I was off by 3 x-centers, 3 wings, midge parity, and 5 midges.

Edit: it just occurred to me that I’m an idiot. I need a different strategy for 5BLD midge parity than 3BLD parity. Hmmm. What’s the best approach there? Using U2/U2/r2/M2/OP in that order, at this point. 3BLD parity alg is D’ L2 D M2 D’ L2 D, executed after edges and before corners.


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## mark49152 (Jan 2, 2020)

One Wheel said:


> First full 5BLD attempt, I’m very happy with the result:
> View attachment 11194
> I can’t seem to attach both pictures to get the whole cube, but I think I was off by 3 x-centers, 3 wings, midge parity, and 5 midges.
> 
> Edit: it just occurred to me that I’m an idiot. I need a different strategy for 5BLD midge parity than 3BLD parity. Hmmm. What’s the best approach there? Using U2/U2/r2/M2/OP in that order, at this point. 3BLD parity alg is D’ L2 D M2 D’ L2 D, executed after edges and before corners.


You need to swap the wings alongside the midges. D’ L2 D M2 (F2 Rw2 F2 U2 r2 U2 F2 Rw2 F2) D’ L2 D. (I don't have a 5x5 on me, I hope I got that right!)


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## One Wheel (Jan 2, 2020)

mark49152 said:


> You need to swap the wings alongside the midges. D’ L2 D M2 (F2 Rw2 F2 U2 r2 U2 F2 Rw2 F2) D’ L2 D. (I don't have a 5x5 on me, I hope I got that right!)


Thanks! That looks like it does what needs to be done! Another alg to learn.


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## JohnnyReggae (Jan 4, 2020)

A question about blind. I'm going camping in the mountains a few hours from Cape Town in the next couple days and I want to spend the time getting back into blind. When using Speffz there is an alg for Q (Edges using M2) which uses M and U moves which is easier to remember than the standard alg. Does anyone know offhand what it is. I cannot remember it for the life of me and I did not write it down or save it to any doc.


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## xyzzy (Jan 4, 2020)

JohnnyReggae said:


> A question about blind. I'm going camping in the mountains a few hours from Cape Town in the next couple days and I want to spend the time getting back into blind. When using Speffz there is an alg for Q (Edges using M2) which uses M and U moves which is easier to remember than the standard alg. Does anyone know offhand what it is. I cannot remember it for the life of me and I did not write it down or save it to any doc.


I don't use M2, but if you mean the DF/UB flip alg, it's (U M')3 U M (U M')4.


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## JohnnyReggae (Jan 5, 2020)

xyzzy said:


> I don't use M2, but if you mean the DF/UB flip alg, it's (U M')3 U M (U M')4.


That's exactly it, thanks  I knew it was simple, just couldn't figure out.

I have a similar one for the flower OLL, (M' U')3 M' U (M' U')3 M' U .... which was why I was getting confused 

Thanks again


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## openseas (Jan 7, 2020)

JohnnyReggae said:


> That's exactly it, thanks  I knew it was simple, just couldn't figure out.
> 
> I have a similar one for the flower OLL, (M' U')3 M' U (M' U')3 M' U .... which was why I was getting confused
> 
> Thanks again



but if you mean the DF/UB flip alg, it's (U M')3 U M (U M')4. --> Correct one is (U M')3 U M (U M')3 U M - no matter what, you can't have uneven numbers of M vs M'


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## mark49152 (Jan 7, 2020)

openseas said:


> but if you mean the DF/UB flip alg, it's (U M')3 U M (U M')4. --> Correct one is (U M')3 U M (U M')3 U M - no matter what, you can't have uneven numbers of M vs M'


The solution for M2 target Q (BU) is simply the DF/UB flip alg followed by an M2 (with cancellation).


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## ep2 (Jan 8, 2020)

I don't know if it's an age thing, but I've spent the last few days trying to learn a new alg, and once I get it, I forget another one that I knew well before I started. This has seriously happened about 6 times now, I'm swapping algs in and out of my head.

Any ideas?


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## Mike Hughey (Jan 8, 2020)

ep2 said:


> I don't know if it's an age thing, but I've spent the last few days trying to learn a new alg, and once I get it, I forget another one that I knew well before I started. This has seriously happened about 6 times now, I'm swapping algs in and out of my head.
> 
> Any ideas?


I've regularly had this problem. It especially happens if there are some sort of similarities between the algorithm that I've newly learned and the one that I've forgotten.

From playing piano, I know similar things can happen when learning similar but different passages of a piece. It's especially common when learning a sonata-form sonata, having memorized the first part of the movement, and then learning a key-changed nearly identical part later in the piece. Suddenly you can't play the first part. Seems like the only solution to this I've found is to then really carefully relearn that first part, paying attention to the differences and also practicing the second part. By paying close attention, you can start to know the distinctions between the two intellectually - not just through muscle memory - and then you can eventually overcome the problem.

I guess I've had success with some algorithms that way. But the thing I don't do that I probably should do is to keep a list of algorithms in my "repertoire", so I can easily go back and relearn one when I suddenly forget it (often after having known it for years and used it thousands of times). I did finally make a list of my OLLs a few years ago, and that has helped me a bit. But I need to do more of it.


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## Old Tom (Jan 9, 2020)

ep2 said:


> I don't know if it's an age thing, but I've spent the last few days trying to learn a new alg, and once I get it, I forget another one that I knew well before I started. This has seriously happened about 6 times now, I'm swapping algs in and out of my head.
> 
> Any ideas?


Since I’m 81, I guess I can talk about this. Learning new algs, remembering thrm, and not forgetting old ones in the process is tough for me. But I am doing it, sort of.

For me it takes drill, drill and more drill. Then repeat. I frequently go through my complete alg set, one after the other, and mix up the order of that also. 

Folks talk about muscle memory, and that’s a big part of it. But there is, perhaps unfortunately, just a biit of my brain involved also, when I am doing an alg.

My worst problem is, or was, remembering the direction of rotation. Is it an R, or an R’? I found a rather effective solution for this: I’ve prepared flash cards for each alg, with the sequence broken into groups of four or sometime three, and with clockwise moves written in blue, counter-clockwise in red, double moves (R2) in black.

I can glance at those cards during practice and instantly see the direction, and fairly soon the “color pattern” sticks in my mind, and I’m vaguely aware of it as I execute, later on, without th3 cards. During drill, it takes just the briefest glance at the cards to bring the alg back. It’s been a really effective learning crutch for me.

Similar but separate issue: memory traces for blind: I do the edge trace, fine. Then I do the corners, oops: lost the edges, gone! I’m working on this, but not as good as I was two years ago. Lots of talk about short, medium and long term memory, yeah, but it’s tough!


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## AbsoRuud (Jan 9, 2020)

Old Tom said:


> Since I’m 81, I guess I can talk about this. Learning new algs, remembering thrm, and not forgetting old ones in the process is tough for me. But I am doing it, sort of.
> 
> For me it takes drill, drill and more drill. Then repeat. I frequently go through my complete alg set, one after the other, and mix up the order of that also.
> 
> ...


Sounds like you are working hard, Tom. That's pretty amazing. Keep up the good work!


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## mark49152 (Jan 9, 2020)

Old Tom said:


> My worst problem is, or was, remembering the direction of rotation. Is it an R, or an R’? I found a rather effective solution for this: I’ve prepared flash cards for each alg, with the sequence broken into groups of four or sometime three, and with clockwise moves written in blue, counter-clockwise in red, double moves (R2) in black.


Good stuff Tom. That reminds me of what Badmephisto did. I learned many of my algs from his site when starting out. He colour-coded common groups of moves - for example, R U R' U' would be green. So many algs are composed of these groups, and seeing them highlighted made it easier to remember algs based on fewer but bigger chunks of information.


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## ep2 (Jan 9, 2020)

Mike Hughey said:


> I've regularly had this problem. It especially happens if there are some sort of similarities between the algorithm that I've newly learned and the one that I've forgotten.
> 
> From playing piano, I know similar things can happen when learning similar but different passages of a piece. It's especially common when learning a sonata-form sonata, having memorized the first part of the movement, and then learning a key-changed nearly identical part later in the piece. Suddenly you can't play the first part. Seems like the only solution to this I've found is to then really carefully relearn that first part, paying attention to the differences and also practicing the second part. By paying close attention, you can start to know the distinctions between the two intellectually - not just through muscle memory - and then you can eventually overcome the problem.
> 
> I guess I've had success with some algorithms that way. But the thing I don't do that I probably should do is to keep a list of algorithms in my "repertoire", so I can easily go back and relearn one when I suddenly forget it (often after having known it for years and used it thousands of times). I did finally make a list of my OLLs a few years ago, and that has helped me a bit. But I need to do more of it.



Thanks, good to hear it's not just me. This helps a lot. I've been spamming since I wrote the post and pretty sure I have them now. I think I just need to learn them at a slower rate than most and keep regoing through them all.


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## ep2 (Jan 9, 2020)

Old Tom said:


> Since I’m 81, I guess I can talk about this. Learning new algs, remembering thrm, and not forgetting old ones in the process is tough for me. But I am doing it, sort of.
> 
> For me it takes drill, drill and more drill. Then repeat. I frequently go through my complete alg set, one after the other, and mix up the order of that also.
> 
> ...



Thanks. Drilling definitely helps. Flash cards sounds like a great idea. 

What you say about blind really rings through as I'm making some attempts on that now. I'm actually finding remembering the letter pairs really tough, but I'll get there eventually...


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## Old Tom (Jan 9, 2020)

And as I learned, long, long ago, when studying anything: just writing something down improves memory.


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## One Wheel (Jan 14, 2020)

I’m on a bit of a 4BLD kick the last couple of weeks. I don’t expect I want to try learning much new before my competition with either 5BLD or MBLD (stupid organizer didn’t make time for 4BLD or for both big Blind and MBLD. I’ll have to talk to him about that.) but once that’s done what would you suggest working on and what are good resources? I’m intrigued by the idea of 3-style or theoretically 5-style big cube centers, but I’m not sure where to start. U2 centers seem like the most moves per piece solved of anything I’m doing now except maybe OP corners, but there aren’t as many corners so it doesn’t seem like there’s as much to gain.


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## openseas (Jan 19, 2020)

One Wheel said:


> I’m on a bit of a 4BLD kick the last couple of weeks. I don’t expect I want to try learning much new before my competition with either 5BLD or MBLD (stupid organizer didn’t make time for 4BLD or for both big Blind and MBLD. I’ll have to talk to him about that.) but once that’s done what would you suggest working on and what are good resources? I’m intrigued by the idea of 3-style or theoretically 5-style big cube centers, but I’m not sure where to start. U2 centers seem like the most moves per piece solved of anything I’m doing now except maybe OP corners, but there aren’t as many corners so it doesn’t seem like there’s as much to gain.



Big cube center is the best way to learn 3 style - also the easiest.
Once you learn just couple of them, you'll be able to use it for the most of centers. It's not that different from U2 but faster and easier.

Daniel's tutorial is quite good for that.


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## Lid (Jan 22, 2020)

Ha! First PB since 2018 ...
Square-1 average of 12: *14.674* (3 parities) (old PB 15.199)
15.119, (11.333), 13.264, 15.037, 13.608, (20.204[p]), 14.414, 16.187, 16.236[p], 12.038, 17.607[p], 13.233


Spoiler: Times & Scambles



Average of 12: 14.674
1. 15.119 (-3, -1) / (3, 0) / (-3, 0) / (-5, -2) / (-3, -3) / (-3, 0) / (0, -1) / (-3, 0) / (3, 0) / (-4, -2) / (-2, 0) / (6, 0) / (0, -3)
2. (11.333) (0, 5) / (-2, 4) / (0, -3) / (-3, 0) / (-3, 0) / (-1, -1) / (-5, 0) / (3, 0) / (6, 0) / (0, -2) / (0, -1) / (-4, -2) / (0, -1)
3. 13.264 (4, 0) / (6, 0) / (-3, 0) / (0, -3) / (0, -3) / (0, -4) / (-3, 0) / (-1, -3) / (6, -5) / (5, -4) / (3, 0) / (4, -4) / (-2, 0) / 
4. 15.037 (1, -3) / (0, -3) / (2, -4) / (-2, -5) / (0, -3) / (-3, 0) / (5, 0) / (-3, 0) / (-3, -1) / (0, -5) / (5, 0) / (0, -4) / (4, 0)
5. 13.608 (0, -1) / (1, -5) / (-4, -4) / (3, 0) / (-5, -2) / (0, -4) / (-3, 0) / (0, -3) / (-1, 0) / (-4, -2) / (-2, -4) / (6, -2)
6. (20.204[p]) (3, 5) / (-3, 0) / (6, -3) / (-3, 0) / (-3, 0) / (0, -5) / (-3, 0) / (-2, 0) / (0, -1) / (4, -5) / (-3, 0) / (2, 0) / (-4, 0) / (4, 0)
7. 14.414 (0, 2) / (6, -3) / (6, -3) / (4, -5) / (3, 0) / (5, 0) / (6, -3) / (0, -3) / (2, -3) / (1, 0) / (-4, 0) / 
8. 16.187 (-2, 0) / (5, 2) / (-3, 0) / (-3, -3) / (-5, -2) / (6, -4) / (0, -3) / (-1, 0) / (-2, -4) / (-1, 0) / (6, -4) / (-4, -5)
9. 16.236[p] (0, 2) / (-3, 3) / (3, 0) / (1, -2) / (-3, -3) / (0, -3) / (2, 0) / (3, 0) / (-5, -4) / (3, -2) / (0, -3) / (6, -2)
10. 12.038 (0, -4) / (6, 0) / (-5, -2) / (2, -1) / (-3, 0) / (3, -3) / (1, 0) / (-3, -3) / (-3, 0) / (0, -2) / (-4, 0) / (-4, -2)
11. 17.607[p] (1, 3) / (0, -3) / (-4, -4) / (6, -3) / (-2, -2) / (-1, 0) / (0, -3) / (6, -1) / (-2, 0) / (4, 0) / (2, 0)
12. 13.233 (0, 2) / (-2, -2) / (3, 0) / (3, 0) / (0, -3) / (-4, -1) / (3, -5) / (-3, 0) / (3, -3) / (0, -3) / (-2, -4) / (6, -2)


I should really start to learn CSP ... but too lazy


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## inkoativ (Jan 28, 2020)

Dear "senior" Cubers,

I wrote a short data science inspired blog post about participating in my first WCA competition as 40+ year old: http://staff.math.su.se/hoehle/blog/2020/01/22/wcascrape.html
In particular I was interested in ranking my result within the results of first competition (senior) cubers. Maybe the post is of interest for others in the cubing sub-community of this thread...

/inkoativ


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## openseas (Jan 28, 2020)

Last weekend comp (Sac Cubing IX 2020) results:

3BLD: DNF (~1:10.xx), 57.73, DNF (39.xx). 1st, had trouble recalling corner memos, ended up with incorrect comm. 2 weeks ago, I made the same mistake for UFL-DBL case, executed with UFL-DFL comm. This time, I did exactly opposite. 2nd attempt, I also had last audio pair recall issues but managed to get over it. This was my first official success in 2020. 3rd attempt, rushed but ended up with incorrect corner recall.

4BLD: 1st: 7:29.52. Tracing took a little bit longer than usual, almost missed last wing cycle (just two wing swap), I started execution around mid 3-minute-ish. And, there were couple of execution mistakes (did wrong comm) - corrected both, so, wasn't sure whether it was going to be a solve or not, but well, was ok. 2nd attempt was almost 9 min DNF, incorrectly recalling the last wing pair. (before this, had a quite a bit of long pause for the last wing cycle recall). 3rd, since mo3 chances were gone, skipped (DNS)

5BLD: 1st: 21:21. Tracing was not bad considering I didn't do a single 5BLD practice other than last 2 competitions, memo was about 9 min-ish. Also executed couple of wrong T-center comms, corrected them. 5BLD center (both X and T) comms are almost intuitive, on the fly comm, so needed extra time to figure them out. It's about time to start more or less regular 5BLD practice at home. After the 1st success, mentally exhausted, skipped the rest.

Overall, avoided disastrous all DNF comp with 50% success rate, and at least 1 success from all BLD events. I tried to do at least 1 4BLD solve practice per day, roughly averaging mid 6 min. So, 7:30-ish success was a little bit disappointing but at least a PR. 3BLD was more nervous after 10 official DNFs. I ended up wining both 3BLD and 5BLD, and placed 3rd for 4BLD. I think it is my first time getting podiums from all BLD events at the same time.


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## One Wheel (Feb 2, 2020)

Big Cheese report:

Speedsolving: nailed it!

Blind solving: dangit!

Mediocre 3x3 and Square-1, but my real goal was just to add a Square-1 average and I got that. 1:23.12/1:10.43 Square-1 average/single, 26.22/22.06 3x3

Lucky last layers on Megaminx, so 2:52.43/2:22.62

Official PB means and singles in 5, 6, and 7, 3rd and 4th ever sub-2 5x5 solves.

1:10.xx Feet single, “official” PB, maybe overall. E: I aso got a 1:26.80 Feet average, which beat my Official PB average of 1:26.88.

3 DNFs in 3BLD, 0/3 MBLD. The MBLD cubes I solved the corners on one, the edges on another, and forgot where I was when executing the third.

I’m strongly inclined to keep organizing this competition every year and not bother trying to even go to other competitions. Apparently the WCAT was on the fence about allowing this competition though, and may be hard to convince in the future. There really is room in the venue for about 40 competitors, plus the usual amount of spectators, but they want competitions with 3x3 to have a competitor limit of at least 50.


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## JohnnyReggae (Feb 3, 2020)

One Wheel said:


> I’m strongly inclined to keep organizing this competition every year and not bother trying to even go to other competitions. Apparently the WCAT was on the fence about allowing this competition though, and may be hard to convince in the future. There really is room in the venue for about 40 competitors, plus the usual amount of spectators, but they want competitions with 3x3 to have a competitor limit of at least 50.


Try organising a competition without 3x3 ... I organised a competition last year where we specifically didn't want to have 3x3 and only the more fringe events that are not normally hosted in South Africa. I had to jump through quite a few hoops just to get the green light for the competition. It was quite frustrating. So now when I organise a competition I need to include 3x3 otherwise the WCAT has an issue with it


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## One Wheel (Feb 3, 2020)

JohnnyReggae said:


> Try organising a competition without 3x3 ... I organised a competition last year where we specifically didn't want to have 3x3 and only the more fringe events that are not normally hosted in South Africa. I had to jump through quite a few hoops just to get the green light for the competition. It was quite frustrating. So now when I organise a competition I need to include 3x3 otherwise the WCAT has an issue with it


My first competition I organized didn't have 3x3, and the only problem with that was that out of a competitor limit of 50 I think 17 people ended up showing up. I would be perfectly happy to skip 3x3, but for some strange reason it seems that other people like it.

I can understand if WCAT wants to ensure that within a geographic area 3x3 is available at least maybe once a year for people to compete in, and _maybe _the current rule about overlapping events in nearby competitions is OK. Beyond that as long as the basic quality standards are met then not approving or threatening to not approve a competition is just a power trip and the WCAT needs to come off it. If a local organizer has everything else lined up it's not like the WCAT is going to offer to come in and hold a better competition.


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## openseas (Feb 9, 2020)

Exported all csTimer 3BLD records to a spreadsheet, just for fun.

My goal of 2019 was becoming sub-1, I'm kinda border line but can still say, yes, I achieved my goal around Nov-ish.
Since I started averaging 90s-ish toward the end of 2018, I made ~30s improvement over the course of 1 year which is awfully slow. I didn't spend much time on actual drilling - that's the reason, I guess. I completed all corner comms 2018 Dec but became comfortable around March. Recorded official 50s in May, official 40s in Nov.

This year's goal is 40 global - a little bit of stretch but not impossible. I haven't pushed my memo almost a year, averaging about 23s - need to do that under 20s comfortably. Edge comms drilling is still ~20-30%. I'm using complete 3 style but majority of them are still quite bad (lots of B, regrip, orientation changes, ...). Going to many comps have both sides of coins, more chances to record PR vs less time for practice (you don't want to learn new stuff right before the comp.) Will see how it goes this year.


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## One Wheel (Feb 20, 2020)

It would make a horribly boring video if I had recorded it, but I'm really happy with this 6x6 average I got today:

3:48.46 Ao12, entirely sub-4:00

1. 3:47.90 @2020-02-20 12:03:46 
2. 3:50.15 @2020-02-20 14:02:19 
3. 3:32.19 @2020-02-20 14:07:50 
4. (3:31.60) @2020-02-20 14:12:42 
5. 3:55.54 @2020-02-20 14:18:13 
6. 3:55.66 @2020-02-20 14:23:25 
7. 3:38.48 @2020-02-20 14:29:28 
8. 3:55.97 @2020-02-20 14:34:27 
9. 3:47.55 @2020-02-20 14:39:42 
10. 3:56.56 @2020-02-20 14:44:45 
11. (3:58.80) @2020-02-20 14:50:08 
12. 3:44.59 @2020-02-20 14:55:40


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## jdh3000 (Mar 13, 2020)

Old Tom said:


> Since I’m 81, I guess I can talk about this. Learning new algs, remembering thrm, and not forgetting old ones in the process is tough for me. But I am doing it, sort of.
> 
> For me it takes drill, drill and more drill. Then repeat. I frequently go through my complete alg set, one after the other, and mix up the order of that also.
> 
> ...



You have to get it to muscle memory, or they are tough to remember. 

I too have trouble memorizing new algs. I know full OLL/PLL but learn new algs for F2L, I have to practice them in segments. When finally commited to muscle memory, I only have to see it then it happens. Sometimes if I stop to think about it, I draw a blank.


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## One Wheel (Mar 14, 2020)

I was just doing some 3x3 solves before bed and got a PB Ao5: 20.09, and the discarded high solve was the first one, 30.xx. It should have been easy to get sub-20, but nope: 23 and 28. So close!


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## muchacho (Mar 31, 2020)

I'm practicing OH again, average is only a bit under 27 seconds, but I've managed to get a PB at Ao5. I'm also getting some Ao12 close to PB, but I can't be consistent, I make some mistakes, get lockups and also forget some algs.

Ao5 PB: 20.54 (previously it was 20.58 from Oct-2018)



Spoiler



Generated By csTimer on 2020-03-31
avg of 5: 20.54

Time List:
1. (15.96) L' F' R2 U L B' R' U D F2 R2 U L2 D' F2 U2 F2 R2 L'
2. 24.71 R2 B2 U B' D R' U' B L D2 B2 U2 B2 L U2 D2 B2 R' B2 L
3. (28.45) B' R B2 F2 D2 L' F2 U2 L R2 U2 F2 L' F' D F' U' R' F U' L'
4. 18.64 R' B' R' F2 R' D2 U2 F2 R2 U2 L U2 R' D2 U R U' L' B' U L2
5. 18.27 F U' B2 U2 R2 U' F2 U B2 U' B2 F2 R' D L D F' D F D'



Hope everyone is ok!


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## SenorJuan (Mar 31, 2020)

That's very good, David. I'm also doing more OH practice, but it's becoming apparent that my cube is getting tired and needs replacing. What is your choice for a OH cube these days ?


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## muchacho (Mar 31, 2020)

A Valk3, I haven't bought a cube in 2 years or so. But if someone can suggest a better cube (non magnetic and not expensive) I might try it. Or maybe I'll buy another Valk3.


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## One Wheel (Mar 31, 2020)

muchacho said:


> A Valk3, I haven't bought a cube in 2 years or so. But if someone can suggest a better cube (non magnetic and not expensive) I might try it. Or maybe I'll buy another Valk3.


I use a GTS2M for what little OH I do. I don’t have a Tengyun, but I tried one at a comp in December and I can see why it’s a very highly reviewed cube for OH. If I was very interested in OH that would be very high on my wishlist.


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## SenorJuan (Mar 31, 2020)

Thanks David, definitely worth considering.
OW: the Tengyun interested me too, for some time the experimenter in me has been wanting to try magnetising a Zhanchi, as I like the Z , and it's cheap, but then the Tengyun came along ....
Gives me something to think about, thanks guys.


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## CLL Smooth (Apr 1, 2020)

Nice Ao5 @muchacho! Maybe I’ll start practicing OH again. Lately it’s been 4x4. I managed to get an Ao100 under 1 minute last week! I was going to update my pb on the spreadsheet that we used to share. I think Logiqx started it, but I can’t seem to find t on my google sheets app anymore. I messaged him about it but haven’t heard back. Anyone else know how I can still access that sheet? It’s really the only place I was keeping track of my pbs


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## mitja (Apr 4, 2020)

Hi, everybody
I haven't been around cube competitions for almost two years. My, daughter is deep in puberty now (14) and she lost the wish for cubing, so I had less reason to do it myself.
Now, that I am , like many of you probably, out of intensive work, I have time to get back with some stuff I liked to do. Like cubing. In last 3 weeks I tried to remind myself about BLD again. I was doing advanced M2/OP-Y method. It was quite scary to remember everything again, but after 1-2 days I remembered it all. Then I started to think about learning 3-style.
I must say it was easier now after the long break. I had quite few dilemmas about buffers:
1. I was UBL/DF solver like most M2 solvers
2. I wanted to try UFR/UF buffers, so first 3 days I was trying both options. I had less problems understanding comms using new UFR/UF buffers. Somehow it was easier to do sited rehearsing.
3. I had a dilemma. Do I keep UBL/DF for convenient transition? Because, when I cannot find a comm, I can always use Advanced M2 edges, and use Y-perm corners. Also, parity solution is easy and I feel much at home with it.
4. On the end, I forced myself to rehearse the new UFR/UF buffers, and it finaly got easier. I don't need to look at help sheet to find the comms.
Also, I got used to new parity solution with UF-UR edges switch. And the use of Ja,JB,Y perm for corners parity.
5. I would say that edges with U-layer buffer are really nice. I can use lots of U-layer interchanges.
6. For corners, I don't see any difference in UFR buffer, the difficulty in comms is more or less the same, depends on personal preference.
But, if I switched to UF, the only way was to switch to UFR, otherwise, the parity solving would be to hard.
I can say I needed about 2-3 weeks with 1-2 hours a day to get comfortable finding any of the 800 and something comms without the need to memorise them..
So, I am at the stage, when I can do comfortable sighted solve, and now it is time to start with blind rehearsals.

There is also one very nice aspect of both buffers on U-face. When I do normal F2L solve, I try to do 3-cycle LL and it is very good to find some nice solutions instead of using OLL/PLL.

Anyway, it is nice to do some cubing again


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## openseas (Apr 4, 2020)

mitja said:


> Hi, everybody
> I haven't been around cube competitions for almost two years. My, daughter is deep in puberty now (14) and she lost the wish for cubing, so I had less reason to do it myself.
> Now, that I am , like many of you probably, out of intensive work, I have time to get back with some stuff I liked to do. Like cubing. In last 3 weeks I tried to remind myself about BLD again. I was doing advanced M2/OP-Y method. It was quite scary to remember everything again, but after 1-2 days I remembered it all. Then I started to think about learning 3-style.
> I must say it was easier now after the long break. I had quite few dilemmas about buffers:
> ...



Glad to see you back!

Looks like everybody is switching to UF buffer - I tried last year but kinda gave up, sticked to DF. (Mostly due to my laziness and too many competitions vs not much time to practice)

1. If you're using advanced M2 for now, switching corner to 3 style will give you the most & fast benefit. Whether you stick to UBL or switch to UBF buffer doesn't make too much difference in terms of times but you're right, eventually, UF-UFR parity will be much easier than UF-UBL, but I don't think it's that horrible. I switched from OP to UBL corner comm about year and half ago, it took 3 month to learn, 3 month to be comfortable with. (Didn't have dedicated time slots to practice, it could have been much faster if I had any sort of schedule and followed it)

2. Due to all comp cancellations, I finally had time to dill comms rather than timed 3BLD practice. I'm still using DF buffers, comm speeds vary from 1 ~ high 3 seconds, averaging mid 2s. I didn't start from the scratch since some of my advanced M2 were already quite good as comms. It took 3 weeks to cover all stickers. Among all stickers, comms with L layer as the first target take longer than the rest - too many [L2, E] or {R2, E] comms which are very slow for me. Now I need more timed practice to uses these comms in real BLD attempt - expecting another 3 month to get comfortable with all these comms.

3. With current comm speed of mine, I'm projecting roughly 35s for execution (10.3 alg / solve) including time I'll be wasting to recall comms. With my current memo speed of low 20s, mid 50s for 3BLD is where I'm at. I'm hoping to get more comfortable with comms so that I can push my memo. Goal is to hit global 40s within this year. All things considered, not sure whether I'll try to switch to UF-UFL in near future. Don't think DF-UBL is the road block to achieve the goal at least for now.


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## dudefaceguy (Apr 9, 2020)

Buffer choice is interesting. I'm just learning intuitive 3 style as my first blind method, and I'm using DF/DFR as my buffers. The argument for using UF/UFR doesn't seem to apply as much to me, since I never learned CFOP, so I don't know any top-layer algorithms. I started with Heise, and always used the D layer for my interchanges when preforming commutators.

When I blindsolve, I make up the commutators on the fly, always interchanging with the buffer using the D or M layer. This means that I do my insertions, and more importantly my conjugates, on the top of the cube. Having an easy conjugate is very important for intuitive solving, so that I don't mess up when undoing the conjugate.

Since I never conjugate the buffer and always interchange with it, I'm using a restricted set of commutators that are easier to construct. My conjugates will never move F or D, and will only involve U B L (and R E S for edges) faces. My commutators will principally involve D F R U moves, and M for edges, with D and M used as the interchange layers. To me, this is a good system that makes it easy to construct commutators and conjugates on the fly without errors. I do rotations when the insertions use the F and B faces, but this can happen with any buffer and is more a result of doing intuitive commutators than of buffer choice.

Speed is not much of a goal for me, since I am too old to be fast anyhow. I just really like making up commutators, and I find doing a blind solve very relaxing. I already know there is no chance of me learning speed-optimized "full 3 style" so I'm developing in my own weird way - which is what makes it fun.


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## AlphaCuber is awesome (Apr 9, 2020)

UF/UFR isnt better because of cfop it’s better because the comms are better


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## mitja (Apr 10, 2020)

dudefaceguy said:


> Buffer choice is interesting. I'm just learning intuitive 3 style as my first blind method, and I'm using DF/DFR as my buffers. The argument for using UF/UFR doesn't seem to apply as much to me, since I never learned CFOP, so I don't know any top-layer algorithms. I started with Heise, and always used the D layer for my interchanges when preforming commutators.
> 
> When I blindsolve, I make up the commutators on the fly, always interchanging with the buffer using the D or M layer. This means that I do my insertions, and more importantly my conjugates, on the top of the cube. Having an easy conjugate is very important for intuitive solving, so that I don't mess up when undoing the conjugate.
> 
> ...


Hi,
i completely understand your point of view. If the speed is not important, then any system that suits you is fine.

I am now into 4 weeks of 3 style learning and it is getting better. I do not use any of the M2/OP comms anymore, because of the buffer switch and am feeling ok with it. I was never fast at blind as I only competed twice with it, so I don’t see any speed difference in buffer switch, but I do feel convenience with UF for edges.

i tried to play with 3 style two years ago, but the DF edges were really difficult for me, so I gave up. now it was easier with using UF buffer. 
I also do it intuitively if possible and I like the 4 movers that are achieved by easy setups.( Of course they are not 4 movers any more after the conjugate).

One more reason that persuaded me was simple. I copied the reconstruction of 59/60 multiblind WR solve into exel sheet and I use it very successfully for rehearsals. Graham Siggins uses UFR/UF (and has accidentally the same color sheme like me). I also like the Jack Cai’s exel sheet tutorial, combined with his video. 
I like Jack’s option to insert my own letter scheme In the sheet. I do not use Speffz and I replaced x,w,q with some Slovenian letters. So the convenience is important.

I also do blind more for my brains gym, not just fun and speed.


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## dudefaceguy (Apr 10, 2020)

mitja said:


> I also do blind more for my brains gym, not just fun and speed.


I get this totally - it's the same for me. As an old man (37) it's important for me to keep learning new things.

Jack's spreadsheet is really great - I have taken a look at it myself even though it uses a different buffer. Switching from U/V to C will not be very difficult if I ever choose to do so. If I ever get bored with blindsolving, it may give me a good new challenge.

I will also look at the WR MBLD reconstruction, that is a great idea.


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## mitja (Apr 10, 2020)

Yes, I believe the reconstruction thread is very usefull. I just take the exel sheet, then I do the letter pair memos and rehearse. Sometimes just sighted solves, other times just blind solves, but without memo.I just read the pack of 1,2,3,4,5 letter pairs ( gradually increase ) and do the blind practice. And then full solves. I concentrate only on few solves. Go back and correct any mistakes. I check Graham's comms and compare with my prefered comms. Of check some Jack's comms. But I do not insist on these speed solvers comms. Some of them like only U,R,D turns, some of them like cube rotations. It really depends on the person. I, for example do not hate some cube rotations. So it saves me some additional setup moves.


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## mitja (Apr 10, 2020)

When you say 37, that is very young to me I'm 52.


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## EngiNerdBrian (Apr 10, 2020)

mitja said:


> .I also do blind more for my brains gym, not just fun and speed.





dudefaceguy said:


> I get this totally - it's the same for me. As an old man (37) it's important for me to keep learning new things.
> 
> Jack's spreadsheet is really great - I have taken a look at it myself even though it uses a different buffer. Switching from U/V to C will not be very difficult if I ever choose to do so. If I ever get bored with blindsolving, it may give me a good new challenge.
> 
> I will also look at the WR MBLD reconstruction, that is a great idea.


Do you guys feel that practicing blind helps with your memory in other aspects of life? I understand that's rather arbitrary and subjective correlation. I've just noticed as I've aged (turning 30 this year) my short term memory seems to be much worse than it used to be. I did a bunch of OP blind solving back in college and have considered getting back into it...I've often wondered if it'd be a good way to keep my mind sharp as time goes on. Thoughts?


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## mitja (Apr 10, 2020)

EngineeringBrian said:


> Do you guys feel that practicing blind helps with your memory in other aspects of life? I understand that's rather arbitrary and subjective correlation. I've just noticed as I've aged (turning 30 this year) my short term memory seems to be much worse than it used to be. I did a bunch of OP blind solving back in college and have considered getting back into it...I've often wondered if it'd be a good way to keep my mind sharp as time goes on. Thoughts?


I am a choreographer by profesion and I understand it involves some parts of the brain that also cubing does( that is a section of the right hemisphere) So i have a feeling it helps me.


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## dudefaceguy (Apr 10, 2020)

EngineeringBrian said:


> Do you guys feel that practicing blind helps with your memory in other aspects of life? I understand that's rather arbitrary and subjective correlation. I've just noticed as I've aged (turning 30 this year) my short term memory seems to be much worse than it used to be. I did a bunch of OP blind solving back in college and have considered getting back into it...I've often wondered if it'd be a good way to keep my mind sharp as time goes on. Thoughts?


I've only started blind solving recently, so I can't say. You can certainly use the memory techniques to actively remember certain things, but I don't know whether it will improve general memory, i.e. remembering to do something this afternoon if you don't write it down. There is a whole field of memory sports, which is described in the book Moonwalking with Einstein.

I like to do cubing because I am a lawyer, so I feel that it uses a different part of my brain than my work - I can take a bite sized break from writing a legal document and do some solves, then come back with a fresh perspective. It's probably good for the aging brain, but I don't have any science to back that up. I'm absolutely sure that it's fun though.



mitja said:


> Yes, I believe the reconstruction thread is very usefull. I just take the exel sheet, then I do the letter pair memos and rehearse. Sometimes just sighted solves, other times just blind solves, but without memo.I just read the pack of 1,2,3,4,5 letter pairs ( gradually increase ) and do the blind practice. And then full solves. I concentrate only on few solves. Go back and correct any mistakes. I check Graham's comms and compare with my prefered comms. Of check some Jack's comms. But I do not insist on these speed solvers comms. Some of them like only U,R,D turns, some of them like cube rotations. It really depends on the person. I, for example do not hate some cube rotations. So it saves me some additional setup moves.



Yes, I do a lot of rotations too. If the insertion involves a B or F move, I usually rotate. I agree that it is very helpful to save setup moves. I will never mess up a rotation because I always know where my buffer is, so it decreases the chance that I will mess up a conjugate reversal. I always do conjugates before rotations, which also helps.

I was surprised to see that some top cubers use rotations in blind solves - it made me feel a lot better haha.


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## openseas (Apr 22, 2020)

There was a 100 solves/day for 10 days challenge in our senior Facebook group.
I've finished with 3BLD - posting summary of results here.

1) 3x3x3 could have been rather easier but 3BLD is a big challenge in terms of dedicated times and mental readiness. I'm averaging mid 50s - it takes about 100s including scramble (or fix). So, 100 solves ~ 10000 seconds, 2.5 hr / day. I split into 3 sessions, early in the morning, right after lunch, and after dinner. Each session, roughly one hour.

2) What was more important than time management was mental readiness. If you're exhausted, you don't wanna try any single 3BLD attempt let alone 100. Tried to go to bed not too late and had quick nap especially on weekends.

3) This timing was quite good for me - I just finished edge comms (sometime in March) - and I needed massive practice on these newly learned algs. So, I forced myself to use these new algs instead of any advanced M2 style comm.

4) I've been pushing memo to get sub-20 memo but was not aggressive. Tried to remember pushing my memo this time.


Below shows summary of 10 days / 1000 solves.
- Time distribution: Majority of times were low 50s followed by high 50s and high 40s. 
- Over times show improvement in terms of median and distribution.
- Pushing memo seems to be getting more stable around 20s
- Execution shows slow improvement - I can feel confidence of executions for many edge comms (not all!)




Below charts show time distribution comparison between 1st half vs 2nd half of this 1000 challenge.
Compared to the first half, I've got many 40s, skewing the whole distribution to left.






Below is a distribution plot divided into 3 time frames (just divided by 3 of total success out of 1000 attempts)
Improvement between the first group toward the 2nd group looks more in all area across the board while the 2nd to 3rd shift was more from fast solves (40s, mainly)








Below is all historical csTimer results starting from 2018 August.
(Each box represents each month distribution)
Started from high 90s, now down to low 50s in the span of 1.5 year. First drop was mostly from getting used to "Advanced M2" when I started learning 3 style corners. It took almost 6 months - then, finally was getting comfortable which brought the 2nd drop. But after that, it was quite stable or very slow improvement. Funny thing is, over this period, memo was almost same around mid 20s while execution showed slight improvement. I tried to re-learn 3 style edge comms but made very small progress. I was finally able to finish learning.
(BTW, each month represents roughly 200 ~ 1000 solves, mostly somewhere in the middle).


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## Rainger (Apr 22, 2020)

What


MarcelP said:


> Hi Guys,
> 
> My name is Marcel, 42 years old. I have learned to solve the cube at age 11 - 12 or so. I had not touched a cube a maybe 15 - 20 years. A few weeks ago I solved a cube and found it very nice to see that I still knew how to do that. When I looked at youtube I found amazing stuff from you speedsolvers. I thought it was the most amazing thing I have ever seen. I solved the cube in a layer by layer which could take up to 10 minutes.
> 
> ...


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## EngiNerdBrian (Apr 23, 2020)

openseas said:


> There was a 100 solves/day for 10 days challenge in our senior Facebook group.
> I've finished with 3BLD - posting summary of results here.
> 
> 1) 3x3x3 could have been rather easier but 3BLD is a big challenge in terms of dedicated times and mental readiness. I'm averaging mid 50s - it takes about 100s including scramble (or fix). So, 100 solves ~ 10000 seconds, 2.5 hr / day. I split into 3 sessions, early in the morning, right after lunch, and after dinner. Each session, roughly one hour.
> ...


Congrats on getting your 1000 BLd solves in. I agree 100% about the mental component, I’ve wanted to get back into BLD recently but have been so mentally zonked at the end of the day the last few weeks that the prospect of relearning memo and BLD execution isn’t even an option. Great work on the commitment to get all these solves in. 

What timer, program, etc. did you use to extract your solve times into a workable format for all your statistics? I really enjoy seeing the data visually!


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## openseas (Apr 23, 2020)

EngineeringBrian said:


> What timer, program, etc. did you use to extract your solve times into a workable format for all your statistics? I really enjoy seeing the data visually!



Thanks! I used csTimer and made charts with R. CSTimer added time stamp from October 2018? (or around that time). Before, it was purely data but now you can add time trend. The overall export doesn't seem to include timestamp but individual session export does.


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## muchacho (Apr 27, 2020)

I've been practicing some 3x3 and I'm still 1 second away from my best times from a couple of years, so I'm giving up for now. On the other hand OH looks promising, I've beaten my Ao100 so I'm (again) trying to learn some CMLL algs... I've counted them and I only remember 12 :-(

Old OH Ao100 PB:
24.495 (4-Nov-18)

New:
24.32



Spoiler: 24.33 3x3 OH Ao100



Generated By csTimer on 2020-04-27
avg of 100: 24.32

Time List:
1. 23.69 R2 U2 R2 U B2 U B2 D' L2 D B2 L' R' U R' F D' R' B D2 L'
2. 24.49 L U R' F' D2 L' B2 D R F2 U2 D L2 B2 U' R2 F2 U R2 F2
3. 25.30 R2 U B2 F U2 F U2 R2 U2 L2 R2 F' U2 L D L' B U B U'
4. 23.88+ U2 L' F R2 U' R2 B2 R' U2 F2 U R2 U2 L2 D' L2 F2 R2 F2 D2
5. 23.97 L2 U2 B D' F2 R2 F2 D L2 U' L2 U' F2 U2 F L2 U' L B R D
6. 24.65 L' B2 U' L' U B R F' U' B2 U' F2 L2 D L2 U' B2 L2 F2 L2 R'
7. 31.67 U' D' L' B' D2 L' D R U' R L2 B2 R D2 F2 U2 D2 R U2 B2 L2
8. 21.00 U L' R2 D B2 D' L2 D F2 U L2 D2 U' F L' D' R2 F L2 B2 U2
9. 20.88 U2 R B2 D U R2 B2 D U2 L2 F2 L2 F2 L B F2 U2 R' U' F2
10. 26.23 L' F D B2 D2 F L' F' R' L2 U2 B2 U' B2 U' B2 D' F2 U' R2
11. 23.46 U2 F B2 L D2 L B2 R F2 L R2 D2 U2 F' L' R' D F D' R' U'
12. 22.89 L' U F2 R2 F2 D' L2 D' F2 D L2 F2 L' B L' B2 F' L' B'
13. 25.96 D' R2 B' U2 L2 F' R2 F2 D2 L2 B D2 R D L' B2 U L2 R2 D
14. (18.64) R' L2 F2 D2 B R2 B R2 U2 B' U2 L2 R D2 F' D' U2 R' U2 F
15. 26.39 U' F D' F2 U2 F2 R2 U2 L2 F2 D F2 U R2 B' D' R B' U' R' D'
16. 25.46 B D' L R2 U' L2 U L2 D2 B2 L2 D2 B2 R U F' L' B2 D U2
17. 24.64 D2 F L2 D2 B' L2 R2 U2 B' F2 D2 F U L' U2 B' R U2 B' R B
18. 20.60 R D F2 L' F2 D B L' U F R2 F' R2 B L2 F' R2 L2 F' R2 B
19. 22.74 B L F' R2 B D2 U2 B' F D2 F' R2 D2 U L' U' B2 R' D' F'
20. 23.02 U2 R' B2 R' F2 R U2 L' F2 R U2 D B2 F' D2 L' D2 F2 L2 D'
21. 22.11 B' R B2 L2 D' R2 D L2 D U2 B2 L2 U2 F U2 B' F2 U2 R U
22. 23.66 D' L R F2 U2 L' F2 L' U2 B2 L' D2 B2 F L' B' U' L2 B2 D' L'
23. 25.85 F U' B2 U F2 L2 D B2 U R2 F2 D B D2 R' D' L2 B' F2 L D'
24. 28.12 L' U D2 R2 F2 D2 L2 F' L2 R2 U2 B L2 F D' F D2 R' F L' B
25. 23.88 L2 D U2 B2 D U2 R2 U' R2 L U B' U2 L2 F D2 U F'
26. 21.98 U R2 U' F2 D F2 L2 U' F2 L2 D2 R2 B U R F R2 F' D2 L' B2
27. 21.01 D' B2 D2 L2 U' L2 F2 U F2 D' R' D' B R' D2 R U L B2 F
28. 24.37 R F2 R2 F D2 B' R2 D2 R2 U2 B L' U F' D' U' R D
29. (17.84) F U' B2 U' B2 U F2 D R2 B2 F2 D F' L B' R' D' B F' R' F2
30. 22.85 D2 R' D' F' U D L R2 D' F2 D2 B2 L2 U D' R2 D2 B
31. 22.36 F2 B' R B2 U F R L D F2 R2 L2 F D2 B D2 L2 B' D2 R2 U2
32. 21.62 U' R2 D F2 L2 U2 R2 D' U2 L2 B2 F' L' R B U2 R U2 F2 D
33. 22.51 R' F B R F' L2 F D B' U2 B U2 R2 F B2 U2 D2 L2 R
34. 23.01 D2 F' D2 B' L F2 U2 F D' B2 R B2 U2 L' U2 L F2 D2 L2 F2
35. (37.51) B U D' R D2 L' U' F' R2 U2 L2 F2 D L2 B2 D' R2 D2 F2 L
36. 25.05 D2 R' U L2 D' B2 F2 R2 U2 B2 D2 B2 U' L U' L2 F L' B2 L' B
37. 29.61 L2 B2 F2 U' R2 U2 B2 D B2 U B2 F R' B2 R D L2 R B L R2
38. 22.46 U' B' L D2 U2 F2 R2 D2 R2 U' R2 U' R' F' L' F2 R' B2 F
39. 23.88 U2 L2 U2 L' D2 U2 F2 L F2 R2 U2 L' U' F2 L' D B' L' B L2 F
40. 25.04 R' U' R' L U' L' D' F2 U2 D2 F' L2 B' U2 F R2 U2 B' R' U'
41. 23.60 B' L2 U2 L2 U2 B R2 F' U2 B2 D2 F' D' L' B' L2 D2 F' U' F
42. (34.41) L2 D' F' L2 U2 D2 L' F' L' F2 B2 L2 F2 D' L2 D2 R2 U' F2 L2
43. 20.43 R B' D' L2 U' B U' B' R F2 U2 R2 L2 U2 B2 L2 D2 B U2 D2 B
44. (17.47) F2 R' D2 L B2 R' U2 B2 R D' B' F2 U' R D' L2 R' F'
45. 22.15 U' R2 B2 D' R2 B2 L D' B2 U2 D' B2 R2 U L2 D' F2 R2 L2
46. 25.22 R D2 L2 B' D2 L2 B' U2 F D2 F' U2 F R' U F' D B L F2
47. 32.08 L' R' U2 R' F2 R F2 R2 B2 L' U2 D B D' L' D R' B2 F' L'
48. (33.28) U' L' F D2 L' B' L F2 D U2 B2 R2 U2 R2 F' D2 B U2 R2 B2
49. (19.52) D2 F2 R' U' B' L2 D' L' R2 D R2 D L2 B2 U R2 U' R2 B2
50. 22.42 L B2 L' D2 U2 L' R2 D2 R' F2 R2 F R' D' L2 R' U2 R F D
51. 23.24 F D F2 L B2 L F2 B2 U R2 F' U2 R2 L2 F2 B D2 R2 F'
52. 28.81 R F R2 U2 B2 D2 F' R2 F' D2 F' D2 F U F' R' B2 F' L2 B2 D
53. (16.30) R F' R2 B D' R' F' D R2 F2 U2 D2 R F2 D2 R2 U2 B2 R' D2
54. 21.85 L D' U L2 F2 L2 U' B2 L2 D L' U' R' D' F' U' R2 B'
55. 31.72 B' U F L2 U2 F L2 B' L2 D2 B' D2 F2 L' B2 U R' F' D2 R' B2
56. 22.03 B2 U2 L2 R2 U' R2 D L2 F2 D2 R B L R2 D' L2 F' U2 L F'
57. 31.59 F2 D2 L2 F2 U F2 D' B2 F' L B' D2 U' B2 R F2 L2 U'
58. 28.09 B2 D' L2 U R2 D R2 D2 L2 D' B2 U' B' R2 F2 L' D2 B D2 U2 R'
59. 22.01 R' B L' D2 R2 F2 U B2 U F2 D2 U' B2 F2 L D' L2 F2 U2 L R
60. 24.26 L2 F2 R F2 R D2 F2 R2 U2 R' F U' L' F' L B2 U2 B
61. 20.76 L2 D2 B F2 R2 B R2 F' U2 L2 F2 L' B2 U B' F' D' L' D' U R
62. 29.16 L2 F2 D R2 D2 F2 D' L2 D L2 U R' U2 R U' R' F R U2 L
63. 24.69 B2 F2 D2 R' U2 R' U2 B2 R' U2 R B L' R U B R' D2 U' R'
64. 20.50 B L2 F R F2 L' B U B2 U F2 R2 D L2 U B2 D2 F2 R2 F
65. 27.41 U R L2 U' B2 U2 F2 L2 U' B2 U' L2 D R2 F D L' B L2 F' L
66. 20.29 R B2 L' F2 L U2 B2 R U2 R' U2 B2 D U R' F R2 F U' F
67. 22.88 B' L2 U2 F R B' U' D2 B2 U2 D2 F' L2 B U2 B2 L2 D R2
68. 19.95 R2 D F2 R D F' B L' D L2 D2 R2 B R2 D2 B U2 F' D2 B'
69. 21.70 R' F U' B2 U B2 U' R2 D2 F2 U' F2 L' F' R D' F2 U2 F R'
70. 25.36 U2 R' F B2 U2 B2 L2 F2 L2 U' B2 F2 U' F2 R' D' F L R2 D' F2
71. 26.03 B2 D B2 U F2 D L2 F2 L2 D2 B' F' L B D F D L U' B'
72. 26.57 L' F R' U' F' B' R B2 R2 L2 U' F2 U2 F2 D2 R2 F2 R2 U F' U
73. 19.52 L' R2 F2 D U2 R2 F2 U' B2 D2 U L D' R2 D2 R' D R
74. 23.28 B' L F D2 B2 L' B2 U2 R' B2 R2 B2 F' U' L F D' L' B2
75. 24.93 L2 F D R2 F2 R2 U' R2 U' L2 F2 D' F2 R D' B D R' U F2
76. 24.76 L2 U2 B2 D' B2 U' B2 U2 F2 R2 D' R B2 D2 L' B F' D2 R D2
77. 29.43 R B2 L U B' D2 L F D B2 R D2 L2 U2 D2 L D2 B2 U2 B2 R2
78. (41.52) U L2 F' U2 L2 D2 L2 B F U2 B U' L2 D L F U2 B' R'
79. 23.54+ D2 F' L2 D2 R2 F2 D2 B L2 U2 R' U R' U2 B' D' U2 L B' F2
80. 25.14 B D R F' L2 B' L2 F D2 U2 B2 L2 U' F2 R D2 B L2 F2
81. 30.28 U2 B U2 F2 U2 F2 L U2 L2 B2 D2 L2 D L B2 F L2 B R
82. 19.52 R2 B2 L2 D2 B F' D2 R2 B D2 F2 L' D R' F L' D' L2 R2 D2
83. 29.09 U R2 D2 L U' D2 L D F2 D2 L2 D' L2 B2 U F2 R2 B' R2
84. 26.63 R' U2 R' D2 L2 F2 D2 L' U2 B2 D' L2 F L F2 U B' F' L
85. 22.36 U' B D2 B2 L2 F2 D' B2 D' L2 R2 B2 R2 U' F' L B' D' B' R' D2
86. (34.93) R2 B R2 F L2 B' L2 R2 F D' L U' R B2 F2 L D2 B' F'
87. 20.55 B R' L2 D2 B2 U' L2 D2 B2 F2 U' R2 D B2 F D' R' U2 F2 R2 F'
88. 19.79 U' L2 U2 L2 U' R2 U' R2 F2 L2 B2 L' U2 B2 R' F' D B U' L'
89. 25.63 U2 L2 F R2 U2 L2 D2 B' D2 U2 F2 U' R' F2 D U R' F' R' B' L'
90. 21.51 D U F2 U' R2 D' R2 U' B2 D' F2 L2 F' U' L D L2 U B2 F R'
91. 29.12 R2 B2 L2 F2 U R2 U' F2 U2 R2 U L' F' L' U2 L' R2 F' U' B
92. 22.57 R U2 B D2 U2 B F2 R2 F' R2 U2 F2 U' L2 F U R' D' U' L' D2
93. 30.64 B2 L' D2 B2 U2 L' F2 R2 U2 F2 D' L' D2 R2 F U' F U' R2
94. 25.60 F2 U2 L' B2 L B2 R B2 F2 L D2 R U L' F' L2 D B' L' U2 L2
95. 21.00 L2 F' U' L' U' R' U' L2 F2 L2 B U2 R2 F' L2 F' U2 B2 D2 L D
96. 21.97 R' U D2 B2 L2 F' R2 F2 U2 F' U2 L2 B2 D' F' D L B U' B'
97. 21.35 L' D2 L2 B2 D' F2 U F2 D' R2 D F' D' F' R' U' B D' L2 R'
98. 29.48 U' B' R' L2 F2 U B2 D F2 D B2 F2 D' L' F R' U2 L' R2 B
99. 25.72 R2 F2 U2 F' L2 D2 B' L2 R2 D' L' U2 B' U' B F' D R B
100. 20.32 L' D2 F' U2 R2 F2 D2 B R2 B L2 D2 F2 D R2 F2 R2 U F U2


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## muchacho (Apr 27, 2020)

I've decided to get some solves in camera, and with some of those solves somehow I managed to improve that PB a bit, now it's 24.20.



Spoiler: 24.20 3x3 OH Ao100



Generated By csTimer on 2020-04-27
avg of 100: 24.20

Time List:
1. 21.00 U L' R2 D B2 D' L2 D F2 U L2 D2 U' F L' D' R2 F L2 B2 U2
2. 20.88 U2 R B2 D U R2 B2 D U2 L2 F2 L2 F2 L B F2 U2 R' U' F2
3. 26.23 L' F D B2 D2 F L' F' R' L2 U2 B2 U' B2 U' B2 D' F2 U' R2
4. 23.46 U2 F B2 L D2 L B2 R F2 L R2 D2 U2 F' L' R' D F D' R' U'
5. 22.89 L' U F2 R2 F2 D' L2 D' F2 D L2 F2 L' B L' B2 F' L' B'
6. 25.96 D' R2 B' U2 L2 F' R2 F2 D2 L2 B D2 R D L' B2 U L2 R2 D
7. (18.64) R' L2 F2 D2 B R2 B R2 U2 B' U2 L2 R D2 F' D' U2 R' U2 F
8. 26.39 U' F D' F2 U2 F2 R2 U2 L2 F2 D F2 U R2 B' D' R B' U' R' D'
9. 25.46 B D' L R2 U' L2 U L2 D2 B2 L2 D2 B2 R U F' L' B2 D U2
10. 24.64 D2 F L2 D2 B' L2 R2 U2 B' F2 D2 F U L' U2 B' R U2 B' R B
11. 20.60 R D F2 L' F2 D B L' U F R2 F' R2 B L2 F' R2 L2 F' R2 B
12. 22.74 B L F' R2 B D2 U2 B' F D2 F' R2 D2 U L' U' B2 R' D' F'
13. 23.02 U2 R' B2 R' F2 R U2 L' F2 R U2 D B2 F' D2 L' D2 F2 L2 D'
14. 22.11 B' R B2 L2 D' R2 D L2 D U2 B2 L2 U2 F U2 B' F2 U2 R U
15. 23.66 D' L R F2 U2 L' F2 L' U2 B2 L' D2 B2 F L' B' U' L2 B2 D' L'
16. 25.85 F U' B2 U F2 L2 D B2 U R2 F2 D B D2 R' D' L2 B' F2 L D'
17. 28.12 L' U D2 R2 F2 D2 L2 F' L2 R2 U2 B L2 F D' F D2 R' F L' B
18. 23.88 L2 D U2 B2 D U2 R2 U' R2 L U B' U2 L2 F D2 U F'
19. 21.98 U R2 U' F2 D F2 L2 U' F2 L2 D2 R2 B U R F R2 F' D2 L' B2
20. 21.01 D' B2 D2 L2 U' L2 F2 U F2 D' R' D' B R' D2 R U L B2 F
21. 24.37 R F2 R2 F D2 B' R2 D2 R2 U2 B L' U F' D' U' R D
22. (17.84) F U' B2 U' B2 U F2 D R2 B2 F2 D F' L B' R' D' B F' R' F2
23. 22.85 D2 R' D' F' U D L R2 D' F2 D2 B2 L2 U D' R2 D2 B
24. 22.36 F2 B' R B2 U F R L D F2 R2 L2 F D2 B D2 L2 B' D2 R2 U2
25. 21.62 U' R2 D F2 L2 U2 R2 D' U2 L2 B2 F' L' R B U2 R U2 F2 D
26. 22.51 R' F B R F' L2 F D B' U2 B U2 R2 F B2 U2 D2 L2 R
27. 23.01 D2 F' D2 B' L F2 U2 F D' B2 R B2 U2 L' U2 L F2 D2 L2 F2
28. (37.51) B U D' R D2 L' U' F' R2 U2 L2 F2 D L2 B2 D' R2 D2 F2 L
29. 25.05 D2 R' U L2 D' B2 F2 R2 U2 B2 D2 B2 U' L U' L2 F L' B2 L' B
30. 29.61 L2 B2 F2 U' R2 U2 B2 D B2 U B2 F R' B2 R D L2 R B L R2
31. 22.46 U' B' L D2 U2 F2 R2 D2 R2 U' R2 U' R' F' L' F2 R' B2 F
32. 23.88 U2 L2 U2 L' D2 U2 F2 L F2 R2 U2 L' U' F2 L' D B' L' B L2 F
33. 25.04 R' U' R' L U' L' D' F2 U2 D2 F' L2 B' U2 F R2 U2 B' R' U'
34. 23.60 B' L2 U2 L2 U2 B R2 F' U2 B2 D2 F' D' L' B' L2 D2 F' U' F
35. (34.41) L2 D' F' L2 U2 D2 L' F' L' F2 B2 L2 F2 D' L2 D2 R2 U' F2 L2
36. 20.43 R B' D' L2 U' B U' B' R F2 U2 R2 L2 U2 B2 L2 D2 B U2 D2 B
37. (17.47) F2 R' D2 L B2 R' U2 B2 R D' B' F2 U' R D' L2 R' F'
38. 22.15 U' R2 B2 D' R2 B2 L D' B2 U2 D' B2 R2 U L2 D' F2 R2 L2
39. 25.22 R D2 L2 B' D2 L2 B' U2 F D2 F' U2 F R' U F' D B L F2
40. 32.08 L' R' U2 R' F2 R F2 R2 B2 L' U2 D B D' L' D R' B2 F' L'
41. (33.28) U' L' F D2 L' B' L F2 D U2 B2 R2 U2 R2 F' D2 B U2 R2 B2
42. (19.52) D2 F2 R' U' B' L2 D' L' R2 D R2 D L2 B2 U R2 U' R2 B2
43. 22.42 L B2 L' D2 U2 L' R2 D2 R' F2 R2 F R' D' L2 R' U2 R F D
44. 23.24 F D F2 L B2 L F2 B2 U R2 F' U2 R2 L2 F2 B D2 R2 F'
45. 28.81 R F R2 U2 B2 D2 F' R2 F' D2 F' D2 F U F' R' B2 F' L2 B2 D
46. (16.30) R F' R2 B D' R' F' D R2 F2 U2 D2 R F2 D2 R2 U2 B2 R' D2
47. 21.85 L D' U L2 F2 L2 U' B2 L2 D L' U' R' D' F' U' R2 B'
48. 31.72 B' U F L2 U2 F L2 B' L2 D2 B' D2 F2 L' B2 U R' F' D2 R' B2
49. 22.03 B2 U2 L2 R2 U' R2 D L2 F2 D2 R B L R2 D' L2 F' U2 L F'
50. 31.59 F2 D2 L2 F2 U F2 D' B2 F' L B' D2 U' B2 R F2 L2 U'
51. 28.09 B2 D' L2 U R2 D R2 D2 L2 D' B2 U' B' R2 F2 L' D2 B D2 U2 R'
52. 22.01 R' B L' D2 R2 F2 U B2 U F2 D2 U' B2 F2 L D' L2 F2 U2 L R
53. 24.26 L2 F2 R F2 R D2 F2 R2 U2 R' F U' L' F' L B2 U2 B
54. 20.76 L2 D2 B F2 R2 B R2 F' U2 L2 F2 L' B2 U B' F' D' L' D' U R
55. 29.16 L2 F2 D R2 D2 F2 D' L2 D L2 U R' U2 R U' R' F R U2 L
56. 24.69 B2 F2 D2 R' U2 R' U2 B2 R' U2 R B L' R U B R' D2 U' R'
57. 20.50 B L2 F R F2 L' B U B2 U F2 R2 D L2 U B2 D2 F2 R2 F
58. 27.41 U R L2 U' B2 U2 F2 L2 U' B2 U' L2 D R2 F D L' B L2 F' L
59. 20.29 R B2 L' F2 L U2 B2 R U2 R' U2 B2 D U R' F R2 F U' F
60. 22.88 B' L2 U2 F R B' U' D2 B2 U2 D2 F' L2 B U2 B2 L2 D R2
61. 19.95 R2 D F2 R D F' B L' D L2 D2 R2 B R2 D2 B U2 F' D2 B'
62. 21.70 R' F U' B2 U B2 U' R2 D2 F2 U' F2 L' F' R D' F2 U2 F R'
63. 25.36 U2 R' F B2 U2 B2 L2 F2 L2 U' B2 F2 U' F2 R' D' F L R2 D' F2
64. 26.03 B2 D B2 U F2 D L2 F2 L2 D2 B' F' L B D F D L U' B'
65. 26.57 L' F R' U' F' B' R B2 R2 L2 U' F2 U2 F2 D2 R2 F2 R2 U F' U
66. 19.52 L' R2 F2 D U2 R2 F2 U' B2 D2 U L D' R2 D2 R' D R
67. 23.28 B' L F D2 B2 L' B2 U2 R' B2 R2 B2 F' U' L F D' L' B2
68. 24.93 L2 F D R2 F2 R2 U' R2 U' L2 F2 D' F2 R D' B D R' U F2
69. 24.76 L2 U2 B2 D' B2 U' B2 U2 F2 R2 D' R B2 D2 L' B F' D2 R D2
70. 29.43 R B2 L U B' D2 L F D B2 R D2 L2 U2 D2 L D2 B2 U2 B2 R2
71. (41.52) U L2 F' U2 L2 D2 L2 B F U2 B U' L2 D L F U2 B' R'
72. 23.54+ D2 F' L2 D2 R2 F2 D2 B L2 U2 R' U R' U2 B' D' U2 L B' F2
73. 25.14 B D R F' L2 B' L2 F D2 U2 B2 L2 U' F2 R D2 B L2 F2
74. 30.28 U2 B U2 F2 U2 F2 L U2 L2 B2 D2 L2 D L B2 F L2 B R
75. 19.52 R2 B2 L2 D2 B F' D2 R2 B D2 F2 L' D R' F L' D' L2 R2 D2
76. 29.09 U R2 D2 L U' D2 L D F2 D2 L2 D' L2 B2 U F2 R2 B' R2
77. 26.63 R' U2 R' D2 L2 F2 D2 L' U2 B2 D' L2 F L F2 U B' F' L
78. 22.36 U' B D2 B2 L2 F2 D' B2 D' L2 R2 B2 R2 U' F' L B' D' B' R' D2
79. (34.93) R2 B R2 F L2 B' L2 R2 F D' L U' R B2 F2 L D2 B' F'
80. 20.55 B R' L2 D2 B2 U' L2 D2 B2 F2 U' R2 D B2 F D' R' U2 F2 R2 F'
81. 19.79 U' L2 U2 L2 U' R2 U' R2 F2 L2 B2 L' U2 B2 R' F' D B U' L'
82. 25.63 U2 L2 F R2 U2 L2 D2 B' D2 U2 F2 U' R' F2 D U R' F' R' B' L'
83. 21.51 D U F2 U' R2 D' R2 U' B2 D' F2 L2 F' U' L D L2 U B2 F R'
84. 29.12 R2 B2 L2 F2 U R2 U' F2 U2 R2 U L' F' L' U2 L' R2 F' U' B
85. 22.57 R U2 B D2 U2 B F2 R2 F' R2 U2 F2 U' L2 F U R' D' U' L' D2
86. 30.64 B2 L' D2 B2 U2 L' F2 R2 U2 F2 D' L' D2 R2 F U' F U' R2
87. 25.60 F2 U2 L' B2 L B2 R B2 F2 L D2 R U L' F' L2 D B' L' U2 L2
88. 21.00 L2 F' U' L' U' R' U' L2 F2 L2 B U2 R2 F' L2 F' U2 B2 D2 L D
89. 21.97 R' U D2 B2 L2 F' R2 F2 U2 F' U2 L2 B2 D' F' D L B U' B'
90. 21.35 L' D2 L2 B2 D' F2 U F2 D' R2 D F' D' F' R' U' B D' L2 R'
91. 29.48 U' B' R' L2 F2 U B2 D F2 D B2 F2 D' L' F R' U2 L' R2 B
92. 25.72 R2 F2 U2 F' L2 D2 B' L2 R2 D' L' U2 B' U' B F' D R B
93. 20.32 L' D2 F' U2 R2 F2 D2 B R2 B L2 D2 F2 D R2 F2 R2 U F U2
94. 25.41 R F' D2 L U B L2 F' R2 L' U2 L D2 F2 L D2 L' U2
95. 23.56 B2 L2 D B2 U2 L2 R2 D' R2 D2 B2 R' B' U2 F D' B U' B' D'
96. 27.45 U F' R2 D' B2 U B2 D' F2 U' R2 D F2 R' D2 U L' D F'
97. 21.34 U R' D2 U2 F R2 F' L2 D2 F' L2 U2 F' R' D' L' D L U' R'
98. 25.67 U' L' U2 R2 B' D2 U2 B' U2 L2 F R2 B R' U L R' D' B' L
99. 23.57 F R L2 U2 F D2 F U2 R2 U2 F2 U2 B2 F' D' F D2 F' U L R'
100. 20.20 D2 L' F2 U2 L2 F2 L D2 L2 R2 D' R2 F D F D B2 R2 B


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## Triassic (Apr 28, 2020)

muchacho said:


> I've decided to get some solves in camera, and with some of those solves somehow I managed to improve that PB a bit, now it's 24.20.



That's just awesome. OH solving looks really neat when done by someone who knows his way around it like you do. It's definitely on my own need to learn list.


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## muchacho (Apr 28, 2020)

I'm not sure if my solves look neat, move count is high and my turning is quite rough.

You should watch Mike solving OH (or 2H), his solves look beautiful.


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## Triassic (Apr 28, 2020)

I see what you mean. I'm still pretty impressed with what you're doing yourself above as well, though.


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## muchacho (May 1, 2020)

14.83 OH PB, old one was 15.136 from last August.

The one in the video is not the 14.83 solve, I was solving the scramble again to reconstruct the solution.






D' U2 L2 R2 B F2 U2 B' D2 U2 F' R' D2 R U R' B L2 B2

x z'
B2 U' M U' M' Lw' U' L' z2 // FB
Lw' L' U L M' U2 M2 Lw' U' Lw // SB
U2 Lw' U2 y R U2 R' U2 R' U2 y Rw // CMLL
U2 M' U2 M U' M2 U' M2 U2 // LSE









alg.cubing.net






alg.cubing.net


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## muchacho (May 2, 2020)

OH Ao5 PB: 19.60 (old was 20.54)

I was trying to get a sub-20 Ao5 on camera like 2 years ago, it still may take a few months more, but I think I'll get it. In the meantime I'll try to upload some Ao5 to youtube that it's faster than the 23.595 I uploaded back then.



Spoiler



Generated By csTimer on 2020-05-02
avg of 5: 19.60

Time List:
1. 21.00 F B2 U2 B2 F2 L' F2 R' D2 L2 B2 L2 U' B D' R' B' U2 R' U2
2. 17.63 L2 D2 U2 B2 R' D2 B2 U2 F2 U2 R F L' U' B D' U2 B2 L2 D2
3. (24.88) L2 D2 L' U2 L D2 R' U2 L F2 U2 R D' L F U' B' U L D2 B'
4. (16.71) D B R' U2 R2 U' F2 R' F' R2 D2 F2 D' B2 D' F2 B2 L2 U'
5. 20.16 F2 U' R2 U R2 F2 U L2 F2 R2 U' B L' F U L' B2 D' F2



EDIT: Oh, apparently also Ao12 PB (21.88), I didn't remember what it was before (22.605 from Oct-18).


Spoiler



Generated By csTimer on 2020-05-02
avg of 12: 21.88

Time List:
1. 21.87 U2 B2 L2 D2 R' B2 L D2 R D2 B L2 B' U B U B' R B'
2. 22.74 L2 D2 F' L2 F' L2 U2 B F2 U2 F' D2 U' L' B2 F D' F2 L' D2
3. (18.70) R' F' U R2 F' D' R U' L F' D' R2 U B2 D' R2 B2 D L2 F2 L2
4. 23.21 B' L2 D' L2 F2 U2 L2 D B2 U R2 D' L' R D' U2 R' B2 L
5. 19.85 D F2 U' F2 D F2 U' F2 R2 D2 U' B R' U2 F U R B2 F' U'
6. 21.93 U2 B2 U' B2 D' R2 D' L2 F2 D' U' B' F' L U' L2 D' L' B2 R'
7. 24.02 B D' L' B' U2 D' L F2 R2 F' U2 B L2 F2 U2 D2 L2 D' F'
8. 19.89 U' L B2 D2 L' U2 R2 U2 B2 R' B2 U2 D B' D2 U L2 F R F2
9. (29.84) R' D' F' L' F2 U' B D2 L F2 L' U2 B2 L U2 D2 F2 U2 R2 U F
10. 19.65 U2 L D U R2 F2 U' L2 R2 F2 U R2 D' U' B' L' D2 F' L2 F U'
11. 22.97 U B2 L' F2 R D2 F2 R2 D2 U2 R' U2 R' B L' U2 L' F2 D'
12. 22.64 D2 R2 D L2 D' R2 U' R2 U' F2 R2 U' F D2 R' D2 F L R' B R


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## muchacho (May 4, 2020)

Generated By csTimer on 2020-05-04
avg of 5: 21.41

Time List:
1. 21.94 U2 B' L2 F' U' F D2 B R' U2 L2 B L2 B' U2 F2 D2 B U2 D2 
2. (27.98) D2 L' R2 U2 F2 D R2 U F2 L2 B2 U' F' D2 L D' B' L2 D2 
3. 21.61 U L2 B2 D' U2 R2 U2 R2 B2 U' R2 L F2 R U2 B D L2 R' B' U 
4. 20.68 D' B2 D' B2 L2 D' B2 F2 D2 B' R' F' R' U L F' R2 F' R2 
5. (19.50) R2 B L2 F2 D R2 U' L2 F2 D B2 D2 L' B2 F R U L2 B R'


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## muchacho (May 5, 2020)

I've improved my OH Ao100 PB a bit, from 24.20 to 23.97.

But I've only learned one more alg, I'll work on that in the next days.



Spoiler



Generated By csTimer on 2020-05-05
avg of 100: 23.97

Time List:
1. (18.08) U R U2 B' D2 R' U L2 B' U2 R' D2 L' B2 R' D2 B2 U2 F2 R2 D2
2. 26.20 L D2 B2 R D2 R F2 L2 R' U2 F2 D L' U F R B' U' B' D R'
3. 22.95 U2 R' B2 D2 B2 D2 L F2 U2 L F2 D2 B' U' B U2 L' B' D B2 D2
4. 29.18 L2 U2 D' L' B U' F' U2 F' B2 U2 R2 F2 U R2 U B2 D2 L2 U
5. 20.56 B2 U2 F' U2 R2 F2 U2 R2 F' R2 U2 F U L2 U' L U2 B' L' F'
6. 25.76 F' R2 L2 D' R' L' B U' L2 D F2 R2 U2 F2 B2 D B2 D2 L' B
7. 19.83 L2 U2 F R2 U2 L2 U2 B2 U2 B' U2 F' D L' F L U2 B' L' U' R
8. 22.36 R D2 U2 B' U2 R2 D2 R2 B2 F' D2 F U2 D' L' D2 F2 D' B2 D' F'
9. 24.39 L F' R2 U B2 L2 R2 D' F2 U B2 L2 D2 B' R2 U' F' R' U F L'
10. 21.91 L2 R' D2 B2 F2 R B2 F2 R2 U2 R' D L F U' B' L2 D' B2 L U2
11. 26.88 L2 B2 U2 F' U2 B U2 B D2 U2 F L2 R D' U2 F2 R' B2 L' D2 B'
12. 20.30 L2 U2 L2 R2 F' D2 F' U2 B' U2 L2 B2 L D2 U B2 D R2 U2 F L2
13. 25.91 U R' B2 U B2 F2 L2 U' F2 D R2 B2 D L2 R' U2 F2 D2 R' B' U'
14. 20.49 U R B U2 F2 U2 L2 D2 L2 F U2 B2 F R2 D L' D2 L U B L'
15. 26.99 U' D2 R B' U D' R' U' L2 F' R2 U2 F' L2 F R2 D2 B2 R
16. 21.94 U2 B' L2 F' U' F D2 B R' U2 L2 B L2 B' U2 F2 D2 B U2 D2
17. 27.98 D2 L' R2 U2 F2 D R2 U F2 L2 B2 U' F' D2 L D' B' L2 D2
18. 21.61 U L2 B2 D' U2 R2 U2 R2 B2 U' R2 L F2 R U2 B D L2 R' B' U
19. 20.68 D' B2 D' B2 L2 D' B2 F2 D2 B' R' F' R' U L F' R2 F' R2
20. 19.50 R2 B L2 F2 D R2 U' L2 F2 D B2 D2 L' B2 F R U L2 B R'
21. 30.87 F D2 F L2 B' R2 B' D2 B2 R2 U2 F' R' F2 D B F' U' L U' L'
22. (18.76) U' B' U2 B2 D2 L2 D2 R B2 R2 F2 L' R2 U2 F L R2 D' U2 B2 D'
23. 21.88 R' B D' F2 D L2 D' B2 L2 D2 F2 L2 D' R' B2 F U L F' U' B'
24. 28.11 U F L U2 F2 R2 B' R2 B D2 B R2 B' R2 U F' R' F D L' F'
25. (42.68) U' F' U2 F2 L2 D F2 D L' R2 B' U2 F' R2 F' D2 R2 L2 B2
26. 30.03 R L2 B2 L2 U2 R2 U' L2 D R2 D' B2 U2 F' L' F' D U L' F' R'
27. 26.13 U2 F' R' U2 L' D2 B2 L2 R B2 U2 L U2 R F' L U' B D' R D'
28. 20.02 D' R2 D2 R D F' D2 B L2 D' R2 F2 D R2 L2 U' F2 B2 D2 B
29. 23.97 U' F2 R U2 F2 R' B2 D2 L' R2 U2 R F D2 L D' U' B R
30. 21.48 F2 U2 R' B2 R B2 L D2 R2 F2 B D U2 R' U2 B L
31. 23.45 L D2 R' D2 F2 U2 R2 B' U2 F R2 L B' R D' R' U' B'
32. 24.38 F2 L F' U' R' L' B L' B R' F2 U2 R' U2 L' D2 F2 L
33. 25.50 B2 U L2 D2 R2 F2 U2 R' D2 L D2 U2 B2 R' B' D U L B2 F D2
34. 27.76 R F2 L' F' R' D' R' B R U2 B2 U2 F2 R' F2 D2 R' B2 R D'
35. 26.32 D' L F2 R2 B D L R2 D2 F L2 B' D2 F' L2 D2 B D2 B'
36. 26.59 F' R2 B2 D B R2 D F U2 R D2 R' L2 B2 R D2 R' B2 D2 L2
37. 27.40 L U' R D2 R2 B L' U2 D2 R2 F' U2 R2 F2 R2 B' D2 F' B' U R
38. 28.38 L D' R2 D2 B2 R' B2 L2 F2 U2 L' F2 L F' R U2 R U L'
39. 23.45 L2 R2 D' B2 F2 L2 F2 D F2 D2 U B2 L' B U' R' D B' D L D2
40. 24.48 L U L B U2 B2 R2 B' D2 L2 U2 L2 F' D2 U' L B2 F' R' F' U'
41. 23.19 D2 L2 B2 U2 R' F2 U2 F2 D2 R D R2 F' D' F2 R' D' F2 U' F'
42. 22.18 D2 B D2 F L2 F D2 F2 R2 B' L2 F2 U L D B2 F2 L2 D B D
43. (16.16) U' D R U2 L2 F' B' U' D' L' F2 B2 U2 L2 D' R2 F2 D F2 L2 B2
44. (18.81) L' U2 R B' D' R2 D' B U' B2 U L2 D R2 D2 L2 B2 L2 D'
45. 26.08 F' L F2 L2 U2 R2 U B2 D2 F2 L2 B2 U' L2 F U2 L B2 L2 D L2
46. 22.57 F' B' U' B' R' B U2 R2 U2 B2 D2 B2 R U2 L' D2 U' B'
47. 22.25 U F R D2 U' F2 R2 D2 R2 D B2 U' F L U' B' D2 R F
48. 21.58 U2 F2 R2 F2 L R2 B2 R' B2 U2 B2 R2 B' U F D' U L2 B U' R'
49. (32.21) D R' U B L' U' D L U' F' L2 B' L2 B2 L2 U2 L2 F R2
50. (38.51) D2 B U2 L' D B U R2 F' D2 F2 U' F2 U R2 L2 F2 L2 D
51. 24.51 B' U' F' B2 R2 U B R' B U2 D2 F2 L B2 R' U2 B2 R' B2 U2
52. 21.48 R2 B2 U' F2 R2 D U2 B2 F2 R2 D' U2 L' U B R' D' F U' L
53. 20.81 F' R2 F2 L2 D R2 F2 D B2 D2 U' F U' F' R F L F2 L2 D2
54. 21.70 U2 B2 R U B2 D2 U' L2 U B2 U' B2 L2 B F2 D2 B2 L' B' R'
55. 24.39 L U2 F' U2 B D2 F' U2 F' R2 F' L F' L U R U R' D
56. 20.80 R2 D L2 U F2 U B2 D F2 U2 R' B F' L R D' R F2 L' R2
57. (38.82) B2 D' R2 F2 D' R2 U' B2 F2 D2 R' D' L' U' B' L2 R U B D2
58. 25.07 D F' D2 L2 F' U2 L2 F2 L2 F' R2 U2 B U F L2 D2 R B2 D R
59. 27.34 D2 U2 B2 L2 B L2 F' R2 F' D2 F' L B' U' L' D' R B' D F'
60. 24.40 U' F2 R' B' D2 B2 R' L2 U D2 B R2 U2 D2 F' D2 L2 F' D2 R2
61. 23.11 R2 U2 F' L2 F D2 B U2 F L2 F2 R' D2 R B' U R F D U2
62. 22.55 U2 L2 F' D B' R' F' D' R F2 R2 D F2 D R2 U2 R2 D R2 D L2
63. 19.95 F' U2 L2 U2 B2 L2 R2 D2 F L2 B' F' R' D' L' D' F L R2 U R'
64. 25.34 L D' F2 U R F B' L' U D2 R2 F2 L2 F' U2 B R2 B' R2 F2 R2
65. 27.97 R L2 F' D2 L2 F D2 L2 U2 B' U2 F D' F L B' R' D R U'
66. 20.17 F R' D2 L D2 B2 D2 L' U2 L F2 R' B' R2 F' L R2 F2 D' R
67. 24.05 D' L' U R2 B R2 D' L2 F2 U2 R F2 D2 R U2 F2 R' D2 L' D' R
68. 27.87 U2 L2 F2 D2 R2 F2 R2 B R2 F L2 F2 U' B D2 L R F' U2 L U'
69. 23.64 L F L B2 R' F2 D2 L R2 U2 B2 L R' B U' L2 F L2 D F2
70. 23.08 U2 F R2 D2 U2 B2 F D2 B L2 D2 U' L2 B' L' B2 U' R2 D F'
71. 19.45 D F R2 F' L' F' B' U' R U2 R2 B2 D R2 D' B2 L2 D B2 L2
72. (34.49) F' B2 R2 D L2 D2 R2 D' B2 D2 U' F2 U2 B' R B2 F D2 L' D F2
73. 21.72 R' D L' U D' R U' R2 U2 D2 L2 B' R2 F2 D2 F U2 B' D2 R
74. 20.45 R2 U2 B2 L2 D' F2 U' L2 B2 U' F2 R2 L' B' D' F2 L D' L' U2 F'
75. 29.27 R' B R2 F2 D2 U F2 U R2 D U2 B2 F2 R U' R' D' F U2 L2
76. 27.30 F' D B2 D L2 R2 D L2 D' R2 U2 R D' L' B2 D F' U2 B2
77. 22.57 D2 F2 L2 D2 B' L2 U2 R2 D2 F2 R' B U' L2 F' U R2 D2 L
78. 23.93 D2 F' L U2 L2 D2 B2 L D2 R2 D2 R B2 D' L' R F' D' U' R2
79. 21.28 U2 B R2 D2 L2 F U2 B L2 U' L' D' R D B' D' F' R
80. 24.23 B2 R2 D2 L' R2 B2 U2 R2 D2 R B2 F' U2 F2 D R B R B2 U B'
81. 21.04 B' R2 D2 F2 R2 U2 F R2 F2 L2 D2 B2 L' D2 U' B U2 B D' R2 F'
82. 20.60 B L' B U2 L2 R2 F2 R2 F L2 R2 U2 F L B D' U2 B' L B2
83. 19.61 F U2 R2 B' D2 F U2 F' U2 B' R2 L' B L R' F D2 L2 U' L' D'
84. 21.60 R' B2 U2 B2 U' R2 B2 D F2 U2 R2 U' B' L B' F' L D' R F U
85. 30.38 R2 U' B R2 B2 U' R2 B' D U2 F2 B2 R' L2 B2 U2 L2 B2
86. 22.25 U2 R' D2 L2 B2 L D2 L2 R' D2 F2 B' R U F2 U2 F' D2 L' D
87. 23.76 F2 L2 D2 U R2 U B2 U' L2 F2 L2 F2 R B2 F D2 B' L B' D B2
88. 27.14 B' U2 R' F2 R2 B2 D2 U' L2 F2 D' F2 D' F R B' R2 D' L U2
89. 26.35 U2 L' F2 D2 L R' D2 L U2 F2 R U' F D' L R' F' U2 B' R F2
90. 19.81 L' U2 L F2 D2 B2 L2 D2 L' D2 B2 L' U R2 B2 R' D' B' F U R2
91. 23.89 D2 R2 F B U R' B' L B2 R B2 R' D2 F2 B2 L U2 L F2
92. 30.18 B R B2 U R2 D2 L2 U' B2 D2 B2 L' U B2 D' F' L2 D2 U'
93. 29.55 U' R2 F R D' B' D L' R2 U2 F' R2 D2 F2 R2 B R2 D2 B L
94. 28.76 B' R2 D2 R2 U2 B' U2 F' D2 F L' U2 B' D F' L U' F U2 B
95. 21.82 R L F' L' U' F2 B' L2 B2 R' D2 F2 R U2 F2 U2 L' F2 R B' R'
96. 20.45 U' L U F U2 F2 B R D F' R2 D2 F L2 B2 U2 L2 F2 D2 L2
97. 20.12 B2 U2 B2 R D2 R2 D2 R2 B2 L' F2 B L B2 L' U R2 D U F'
98. (18.14) F L F' D2 B U2 B' F2 U2 L2 F' R2 D2 R2 U L' B D2 B' D' B
99. 25.70 F R F L2 D2 F2 R2 F D2 B' R2 F2 U2 D' L' B L B' F L
100. 22.73 U' B2 U2 R2 B2 R2 D L2 D2 B' D2 B2 U2 L2 R U' F' U


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## muchacho (May 8, 2020)

I've managed to get the OH Ao1000 under 25 seconds (now I'm using the Thunderclap v1), and I've also learned another alg so now I know 14... out of 42, OMG this will take some time.


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## mitja (May 8, 2020)

EngineeringBrian said:


> Congrats on getting your 1000 BLd solves in. I agree 100% about the mental component, I’ve wanted to get back into BLD recently but have been so mentally zonked at the end of the day the last few weeks that the prospect of relearning memo and BLD execution isn’t even an option. Great work on the commitment to get all these solves in.
> 
> What timer, program, etc. did you use to extract your solve times into a workable format for all your statistics? I really enjoy seeing the data visually!


Congrats to your resilience. Your concentration must be great. I see the FB group is very active, but the group here is very quiet. I found lots of usefull info on this thread here. Unfortunately I hate Facebook as a webpage and horrible application, I prefer dedicated forums. I was out of cubing for 2 years and wish this thread would get more alive again.


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## CLL Smooth (May 9, 2020)

muchacho said:


> I've managed to get the OH Ao1000 under 25 seconds (now I'm using the Thunderclap v1), and I've also learned another alg so now I know 14... out of 42, OMG this will take some time.


Very nice! I just completed my first 100 solves over the last few days since I told you I was going to get back into it. Current Ao100 is 26.541 with best Ao5/12 being 23.157/24.397. I feel like it’ll take me a bit of practice to get back to my old turning speed. Plus I’m getting that OLL amnesia on some cases where I can’t rely on my muscle memory. Keep up the good work and I’ll keep trying to catch up.


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## muchacho (May 9, 2020)

Great, good times!

I started averaging more than 28 seconds and i was frustrated for a few days, but after that so far it has been really fun improving almost every day... we'll see if I can keep improving.

I've improved the Ao100 from 23.97 to 23.66. I lubed the cube and give it my 100%, I can't do better than that for now.



Spoiler



Generated By csTimer on 2020-05-09
avg of 100: 23.66

Time List:
1. (18.90) F2 D2 R' U D' R L F' U2 D2 R' U2 D2 L F2 D2 L' B2 D2 
2. 20.33 L F2 U' B2 U2 F2 R2 D F2 U2 L2 F' L B' D' U' R' B2 U 
3. 22.00 R' D' R2 D' R2 F2 L2 R2 U' B2 L2 D' L' B2 F R D' L B' R' F' 
4. 25.90 B U' D2 R2 D2 L U2 R F2 R' B2 R' B2 D' L2 B R' D2 R U' 
5. 19.81 U F' L B U2 L F2 D' B' R2 D2 R2 F R2 U2 F' D2 F' R' 
6. 20.95 U' L B2 D2 B2 R2 U2 F2 U2 B2 L U2 F2 B' U R2 U' L' F2 L2 
7. 23.63 D2 F2 B' R' U2 L U L R2 U2 F2 B D2 R2 D2 B' D2 F2 U2 
8. 23.25 D2 B2 U' L2 U' R2 U R2 F2 R2 U' R2 L' F' U R2 F2 R' D' L' D 
9. (40.16) B2 U2 R' U2 R2 F2 L' U2 R' U2 L' B' D U2 R' D2 L U B 
10. 27.84 F' R2 D2 L' D' R L' F U B2 R2 D' L2 U B2 U2 L2 B2 U 
11. 24.77 F' U2 L U2 L' U2 R' F2 D2 F2 L F2 D' F' D L U L R2 B' 
12. (31.28) U' D' F U2 F R' L2 D F D2 F' L2 D2 F' U2 R2 D2 B2 L2 
13. 24.37 B2 R2 D2 F2 R2 U L2 B2 U B2 U L' F R2 B U R' U B2 R B' 
14. 20.57 D R2 D2 F' R L2 U R2 L2 F' R2 F2 R2 L2 F' U2 B' D2 B 
15. 20.84 U2 R2 B2 D2 R2 B U2 R2 D2 U2 B2 F' D' R U' R2 D2 F' D L2 R2 
16. 21.97 L2 B2 D2 L2 F' L2 D2 F L2 B2 U2 F L' B2 D F L R' D' B2 F 
17. 24.46 U R2 F' R2 F D2 F D2 L2 F2 L2 F D' R2 B' R B2 U2 R2 F2 
18. 20.89 B2 L F B2 R' B2 U' R' B' U D L2 D' R2 B2 D' R2 D2 B2 R2 U' 
19. 24.68 R U' R2 U L2 U2 B2 D U2 L2 F2 B L' F U' F D F2 R U 
20. 24.35 U' B2 L' U2 L' F2 U2 R F2 L D2 L U' B L B2 R' B2 F L' 
21. 23.72 F' B2 U2 L2 B2 F2 U2 L2 D' R2 D' B2 U R' U F' D B' L2 U F 
22. 21.70 D L' F' U2 F D2 F D2 R2 D2 U2 B' D2 U' F2 R2 U L D2 U2 
23. 21.67 L2 F2 U B2 D' L2 B' U D2 R L F2 U2 R F2 U2 L2 B2 U 
24. (18.82) B2 U R' D2 U2 F2 L' F2 L2 B2 D2 L U2 B' U L D2 R2 F D2 
25. 26.29 L2 R2 F' U2 B' U2 B L2 D2 L2 U2 R U' B2 D F' U R U B' L 
26. 23.39 L2 R U B2 R2 B2 U2 F2 U' F2 U2 F' R D R' B' F' R U B2 
27. 22.87 D' L U' D' F' B' R' L' F' D' R2 D' R2 B2 D2 F2 R2 B2 U' L2 U' 
28. 23.06 U' R2 B2 R2 B2 U2 R' F2 U2 R F2 D2 B R D2 R2 F2 U R F2 
29. 25.73 D' B2 D L2 D B2 D' R2 D R2 F2 R2 B F' L B2 U' L2 B D2 B2 
30. 22.78 U2 F2 D2 R2 U R2 D F2 R2 B2 U2 F2 B U R D B2 U2 R' D B2 
31. 23.92 R D' B R2 D2 U2 B L2 U2 B L2 F2 L2 U2 D' L' U2 R B2 F R2 
32. 19.20 F' R2 D2 L2 D2 F2 L2 B' R2 B' R2 D2 L B2 D' R' B2 U2 L R D2 
33. 23.76 L2 F' U2 B' L2 F' D2 U2 B2 L2 U2 F' L' B' U2 F U B F2 U2 L2 
34. 23.03 B R U D' B' D' R U' L U2 B2 L2 F D2 F' L2 D2 F D2 
35. 24.58 B R2 U2 F2 U B2 D B2 L2 D2 B2 U B' R B L R B2 D R' 
36. 26.51 L2 F' U' R2 L' B2 U B D L2 U2 F' U2 F2 D2 L2 F' B2 U2 B2 R2 
37. 22.71 B2 U' F' U2 D2 F' U' F' U2 B2 R U2 F2 L' U2 R' U2 R U2 F2 B' 
38. 23.19 B2 R D' L D2 B2 U2 R' U2 L2 R' D2 L B' U2 F' U' B2 R' B 
39. 22.80 D F L2 D2 F2 R2 U L2 D L2 F2 R2 L' D2 B L F L' D' L2 
40. 26.39 L2 D2 F' U2 F2 R' U L2 F2 U' B2 U2 D F2 B2 L2 F' R' 
41. 23.88 L2 D2 R' U2 L' D2 U2 R' B2 L2 B2 U' F L' R D' R F' L' B D' 
42. 19.43 B2 D' R U2 B' L2 F2 D2 F U2 L2 D' B' D2 U L' F R2 
43. 28.34 B2 L U2 R B2 D2 R2 B2 F2 R2 F2 D B' D2 L' D2 U B' F D2 
44. (19.12) L D2 L2 F B D' F' R F2 U2 R' B2 L' F2 L' D2 R' F2 D R2 
45. 29.99 U D' L F L2 B L B' R' U L2 F2 D R2 U' B2 U R2 D2 L2 
46. 23.89 B F2 U' B2 U F2 U B2 D' U B D' F' U2 L' F' R' D' R2 
47. 29.62 F2 D2 R2 B' D2 F' L2 F' D2 B' F2 L B2 D' B2 F R' D' L B2 L2 
48. 25.13 R2 D' B' R2 D2 F R2 F2 D2 F U2 R2 F2 L2 U' R D2 B2 L F2 L2 
49. 22.53 U' R' L2 U2 L2 U B U2 D L D2 L2 F' R2 F2 L2 D2 F R2 B D2 
50. (16.48) L U2 R D2 B2 D2 B2 R2 D2 L2 R F2 B D U' F R2 D2 R' D' 
51. (36.33) B D2 F L2 F2 R2 U2 B' L2 B' D2 B R' D2 B D2 F D U F2 R' 
52. 23.89 B2 U F2 D U2 L2 F2 U' R2 F2 D2 R2 L F2 R' U R' F R2 B' R 
53. 20.80 D R L2 F D' L B2 U2 R' F2 D R2 U' B2 D' B2 L2 U2 L2 U' 
54. (17.14) U L' B' U2 F' R L B2 R2 F2 D' R2 B2 D R2 U' L2 U F' L2 
55. 22.37 U B R B2 F2 R2 D R2 D' L2 F2 D' L2 U' L D2 F' D2 U' R B 
56. 20.37 L' U2 F L2 D2 B' L2 B L2 F' R2 F' D2 R D L B L D' F' 
57. 28.62 B' U L2 R2 F2 U' B2 D' B2 F2 D' R2 B2 F' L2 U' L2 R U' B2 R' 
58. 24.02 D2 F L2 B D2 F U2 L2 F L2 D2 F' R' B2 F D L' F R D' L2 
59. 21.73 U' F L2 U B2 F2 D B2 U2 F2 R2 F2 U R F L' U L B2 U' F' 
60. 21.56 U L U2 L R D2 B2 D2 R B2 L2 F2 B D' L U' B2 D' B' U' 
61. 22.65 L' U L2 D2 R2 D2 B2 R U2 L' U2 L' U2 B2 U F' R U' B2 U' R2 
62. 24.96 F' L F' L2 B' U D2 R' F' R2 U2 L2 D2 L' F2 R' U2 F2 R 
63. 24.29 L D B2 L' B2 D2 L B2 U2 F2 U2 F L' R B R' U' L2 D2 
64. 23.65 U2 F2 L2 B2 U' B2 D' U2 L2 R2 U' L' D2 R' U R2 B' R 
65. 24.71 R2 B2 L2 U' B2 U' R2 U R2 U' R2 F' D2 R' B U2 F' R' F D2 L 
66. 24.38 U' D B' R2 F D' F2 L D R2 D B2 R2 F2 D2 B2 R2 U' D' R 
67. 21.35 D R U2 B R' U L' U L' U2 R2 D2 F2 R U2 L2 F2 L2 F2 B' 
68. 26.48 B D L2 F D2 F D2 U2 F L2 U2 R2 F U2 R D L' B2 D' U2 R 
69. 20.79 L' D L2 R2 F2 L2 D' F2 R2 U B2 R U B' R2 U B2 D2 U2 
70. 24.67 L2 F' B2 D2 L R B2 U2 L B2 L F2 U2 F' L U2 L' D L2 U 
71. 23.61 D' F R2 U2 B R U' R F2 L U2 F2 L' F2 D2 F2 R2 D' R 
72. 20.38 F2 L F2 D2 L B2 L2 U2 L2 U2 D B' U L' D2 F' R B2 L2 
73. 23.22 R' D2 F2 U2 B2 L' F2 R2 B2 L' B' D R2 F' U2 L B2 R B' D2 
74. 29.06 R2 F D2 L2 F' U2 B' D2 F U2 R2 D' F' U' L' R' F' D' U2 L' 
75. 23.06 D' B2 R2 B R2 B' D2 R2 B D2 F' R2 D B2 U2 R' F2 D B2 F2 
76. 19.56 U2 F2 L2 F2 D R2 D2 R2 F2 R2 B' R D' B2 D' F' R F U' 
77. 24.75 F L2 U' F' D2 B' F2 L2 U2 B2 D2 F' U2 L2 R' D' F U F L' D 
78. 26.45 U' B R2 F2 U2 F D2 F L2 F R2 F' D2 U' L D' U' R B' U 
79. 19.81 L' D2 R F2 R' B2 D2 R' D2 R2 D2 U2 F' D B L' D' B2 L2 U F 
80. 24.32 B2 L2 U2 R2 D L2 U2 R2 U L2 R2 F2 B U2 R B L2 B2 L D2 F 
81. (32.01) R2 F L2 F D2 F' U2 R2 F U2 B' D' B U2 F2 R B2 U2 F2 R U 
82. 21.22 U2 D' B2 R U F B U B2 D2 B2 D2 L2 D2 L2 D B2 F R' 
83. 21.88 F2 L2 B' L2 U2 L2 F D2 B L2 F2 U2 L' U2 L' B2 R F D' 
84. 30.68 U2 B' R U' F U D R B' U' B2 R2 B2 U L2 D R2 B2 D2 R 
85. 24.51 B2 L B2 U' R2 U F2 U' R2 D B2 U2 L' B2 D' B' F2 L D 
86. 24.01 U B L' R2 D2 B' L2 F2 U2 B R2 F L2 D2 U B2 F' L' D2 F' R' 
87. 28.90 R F L F' B' U' D' R' U2 R B2 R B2 D2 L2 F2 R U2 L2 D' B' 
88. 22.31 R2 D2 B L F U R2 D' R U2 R2 L2 B R2 L2 F R2 F L2 F' U2 
89. 24.06 B' L' U2 R' U2 B2 L2 R D2 R' F2 R B2 U R' D2 U2 B R B F 
90. 22.55 L2 D F2 L2 U2 B2 D B2 L2 F2 R B2 R F D' L2 B U' R' F2 
91. 23.69 F2 R2 F2 R2 U' R2 U2 L2 U L2 U' R2 L' B' U R B D' R U' L 
92. 20.92 F2 R2 D2 L2 D F2 U L2 B2 U2 B D B' U' L' B' R B2 F2 R2 
93. (31.99) L2 U' B' R2 U2 R2 B2 R2 U2 B' U2 B2 F U' B D F2 R U' F' 
94. 28.33 L2 R D' F2 L2 U B2 F2 U2 F U B' R F L F' U' B 
95. 21.95 L' D2 U2 B' L2 B' R2 B R2 F' L2 U2 F U B F' R' D U B 
96. 24.39 F U2 F2 L2 D' L2 D2 U' B2 L2 U B' D' R' D' B F U' F2 L' 
97. 25.79 L' F' U B2 D2 B' D2 F U2 L2 R2 B' L2 F2 L' F' D' B2 L F2 U' 
98. 21.23 U' R' L D2 F' U' L F2 D R2 B2 D B2 L2 B2 D2 F2 B2 R2 F' 
99. 27.12 U F U2 F' D2 B' R2 D2 B' D2 U2 L' D2 R2 U R2 U' B' F' U 
100. 19.67 L' U' L F2 D' L' B R D2 R2 U2 L2 F2 L2 U2 B R2 B' L2 R'


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## ep2 (May 10, 2020)

After months stagnating around 31/32 seconds, I just stopped timing myself and did hand scrambles. I did my first timed solves in about 8 weeks yesterday and straight away got my first sub 30 avg 12.


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## muchacho (May 10, 2020)

Congrats, did you focus on lookahead or learned/practiced some algs, or just did solves?


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## ep2 (May 10, 2020)

muchacho said:


> Congrats, did you focus on lookahead or learned/practiced some algs, or just did solves?



It's a combination of all. I know where I'm weak, often don't plan cross well, F2L needs a lot more work I have some cases that are really slow, and would love to finish off the PLLs(6 more to go) But honestly I had lost motivation to get faster, just stuck to solving, and actually that seems to have helped for some reason, I can see my F2L pauses reducing/lookahead getting better, and have added on another 2 PLLs in that time.


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## EngiNerdBrian (May 10, 2020)

ep2 said:


> It's a combination of all. I know where I'm weak, often don't plan cross well, F2L needs a lot more work I have some cases that are really slow, and would love to finish off the PLLs(6 more to go) But honestly I had lost motivation to get faster, just stuck to solving, and actually that seems to have helped for some reason, I can see my F2L pauses reducing/lookahead getting better, and have added on another 2 PLLs in that time.


Congrats! It sounds like you are in a similar position to where I was a few months ago. I was stuck trying to get below 30s with the Ns and Gs left for PLL, I couldn't completely plan the cross during inspection and I have essentially no look ahead skills and some poor solutions to F2L cases. 

Finishing Pll was helpful (removing the 2 step solve by learnings G perms) but improving my cross solutions helped me the most, instead of taking 3-7s trying to figure out cross solutions with the timer running now it's solved in 1-2s and I'm on to F2L. Good luck on your journey. It sounds like you are at a common plateau for times. It is extremely rewarding to break past that but does take a lot of dileberate practice.


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## ep2 (May 10, 2020)

EngineeringBrian said:


> Congrats! It sounds like you are in a similar position to where I was a few months ago. I was stuck trying to get below 30s with the Ns and Gs left for PLL, I couldn't completely plan the cross during inspection and I have essentially no look ahead skills and some poor solutions to F2L cases.
> 
> Finishing Pll was helpful (removing the 2 step solve by learnings G perms) but improving my cross solutions helped me the most, instead of taking 3-7s trying to figure out cross solutions with the timer running now it's solved in 1-2s and I'm on to F2L. Good luck on your journey. It sounds like you are at a common plateau for times. It is extremely rewarding to break past that but does take a lot of dileberate practice.



Yeah, to be honest I want to finish PLL so that I don't suffer badly from the times I get one I don't know, really pushes out the time on it, and means I can't be consistent in times. But I do know I could probably gain more from cross and F2L, I'll go back to working on that in a few weeks if I manage to get another two PLLs ticked off. 

What time are you down to now?


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## EngiNerdBrian (May 10, 2020)

ep2 said:


> Yeah, to be honest I want to finish PLL so that I don't suffer badly from the times I get one I don't know, really pushes out the time on it, and means I can't be consistent in times. But I do know I could probably gain more from cross and F2L, I'll go back to working on that in a few weeks if I manage to get another two PLLs ticked off.
> 
> What time are you down to now?


Finishing PLL is a great milestone for sure. I put down the cube for 7-8 years and the first thing i wanted to get done getting back into the hobby was finish PLL (i needed R's Ns and Gs). Especially once you start benefiting from the PLL cases yo do know getting a case you don't feels like a real bummer on your progress and consistency. 

Once i finished PLL i worked on efficient cross solutions, better solutions to F2L cases, and executing the F2L cases i do know with a high turning speed. I spent alot of time internally vocalizing my F2L solutions (all algs really) and wanted to get to a point where i could recognize and execute and not necessarily think about how i need to solve the case (prepping to implement look ahead). All told this has brought me from the 30-35s range to consistently averaging 28-29s. When i get solves where everything goes right I'm getting sub-25 and alot of sub 20 solves which is awesome and rewarding. I've been cubing like a mad man with all this extra time at home due to COVID-19.


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## ep2 (May 10, 2020)

Great inspiration for me, cheers. Hopefully get there in the next few months too.


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## muchacho (May 11, 2020)

Improved my OH PBs a bit:
Ao12: 21.20 (from 21.88)
Ao100: 23.21 (from 23.66)



Spoiler



Generated By csTimer on 2020-05-11
avg of 12: 21.20

Time List:
1. 19.36 F2 L F2 D' R2 U F2 D' L2 B2 R2 U' B' R2 F' L' B2 U F2 U2 
2. 24.28 L U' R' U' D L D R B D2 F2 L2 B D2 R2 B L2 F2 L2 
3. 21.86 F U2 R' U' F2 R' F R F2 D2 R' B2 D2 R U2 B2 L U L 
4. 22.84 L2 U L2 U F2 L2 D2 R2 D2 B F D L2 R2 B2 F' L' F' 
5. 20.26 B2 U2 R2 B2 F2 D2 U R2 D' L2 B2 U' B' D L2 D B2 R' B2 L U' 
6. (39.08) F' D2 F2 D' R2 D R2 U' F2 R2 U2 B2 R' F D U2 B U' L' D2 B' 
7. (17.17) R2 B' L2 B' U2 B F2 R2 F2 U L' F D' U F2 D' B' U2 
8. 18.25 F L2 B R2 D2 B2 L2 B D2 B' U2 R' D U L' U F' D' F' L' F 
9. 24.48 L2 D2 F L2 B' D2 U2 B2 R2 B' U2 B R U R' U' L' D B U' 
10. 18.96 R' U' L2 B2 D2 L2 U F2 R2 B2 L2 F2 U2 L U F D L U L R' 
11. 22.88 B R' B2 R F2 L' U2 R U2 R B2 R' D2 U B' R2 D' F U2 B2 
12. 18.80 F' L2 R2 B2 R2 F' R2 B L2 F' U2 L' F2 D F R' U' L2 B L





Spoiler



Generated By csTimer on 2020-05-11
avg of 100: 23.21

Time List:
1. 20.40 B' D' U2 F R2 D2 R2 U2 F' R2 L B R' U' F' L2 D' B' 
2. 27.13 F2 U2 F' R' D F2 L U' D' L2 U' R2 F2 U' L2 F2 R2 B2 U2 B' 
3. 19.34 L' U2 B2 L R F2 L' D2 F2 U2 L2 U' B' D L B U2 R 
4. (17.67) D R2 F2 D' L2 D F2 D' B2 R D L B L2 D2 B' U L2 U' 
5. 22.88 F L' D2 L D2 F2 L B2 D2 R U2 L2 F2 D B' L' U L' D' R U2 
6. 22.93 F2 L' U B2 U R2 U L2 D F2 L2 U2 R U' B U' R2 B2 R B 
7. 24.68 D2 F2 D' L U' D' R' D' B2 L2 U2 B U2 F' L2 B L2 D2 R 
8. 24.89 R' D2 F L2 U2 F U2 B2 U2 L2 B R2 U2 L D U2 B2 F D2 L' D' 
9. 18.55 F B L2 F B L B D L2 U2 R' B2 U2 L U2 L D2 L F2 B2 
10. 26.35 R U2 R B' U R D' L F' D2 R' F2 L' D2 R2 U2 L' F2 U2 
11. 19.94 U L F' R2 F' R2 B2 D2 U2 L2 B R2 D2 F' U B D U' L' B2 F2 
12. 26.91 U' L' B2 R2 B2 R2 B L2 D2 B' R2 D2 B D' R D2 L U' F' R 
13. 21.56 D' L2 F' R' B2 L U D' R' U D2 L2 B2 L2 B2 U D2 R2 U B2 L2 
14. 24.74 L' F' D' L2 D R2 U L2 B2 F2 D F2 D F' L' F2 L D F R D 
15. 21.87 U' L2 D' F2 L2 U' R2 U F2 U F' D2 B2 R D' U' R' B' D' U 
16. 19.36 F2 L F2 D' R2 U F2 D' L2 B2 R2 U' B' R2 F' L' B2 U F2 U2 
17. 24.28 L U' R' U' D L D R B D2 F2 L2 B D2 R2 B L2 F2 L2 
18. 21.86 F U2 R' U' F2 R' F R F2 D2 R' B2 D2 R U2 B2 L U L 
19. 22.84 L2 U L2 U F2 L2 D2 R2 D2 B F D L2 R2 B2 F' L' F' 
20. 20.26 B2 U2 R2 B2 F2 D2 U R2 D' L2 B2 U' B' D L2 D B2 R' B2 L U' 
21. (39.08) F' D2 F2 D' R2 D R2 U' F2 R2 U2 B2 R' F D U2 B U' L' D2 B' 
22. (17.17) R2 B' L2 B' U2 B F2 R2 F2 U L' F D' U F2 D' B' U2 
23. 18.25 F L2 B R2 D2 B2 L2 B D2 B' U2 R' D U L' U F' D' F' L' F 
24. 24.48 L2 D2 F L2 B' D2 U2 B2 R2 B' U2 B R U R' U' L' D B U' 
25. 18.96 R' U' L2 B2 D2 L2 U F2 R2 B2 L2 F2 U2 L U F D L U L R' 
26. 22.88 B R' B2 R F2 L' U2 R U2 R B2 R' D2 U B' R2 D' F U2 B2 
27. 18.80 F' L2 R2 B2 R2 F' R2 B L2 F' U2 L' F2 D F R' U' L2 B L 
28. 22.79 L U D2 F2 R' D2 B L' U' B2 L2 U' R2 F2 L2 F2 B2 D L2 U' B' 
29. (DNF(22.61)) R D' B2 R' B2 L2 U' B L' B2 R L2 F2 B2 L U2 B2 D2 
30. 20.24 L2 U' B2 R2 F2 R2 D2 U F2 L2 U' R2 L F D' R2 B D R2 U' B 
31. 26.81 L2 D L2 U' B2 U' L2 F2 L2 D B2 U2 B' U' B R' U L' D' R2 B2 
32. 24.40 L' F2 B' R L D L D F2 D2 L2 F2 L2 B' U2 F' L2 B U2 D2 R 
33. 22.38 B2 L F2 U' B' U' L' B U2 D2 R2 F' B' L2 U2 F' D L' 
34. (17.36) D2 F L2 B2 R2 B2 U L2 D L2 R2 U R' U B' R2 U B2 R' D' 
35. 24.57 L2 F U B2 L2 D2 L2 F2 L2 U L2 D R2 L' B2 U' R' U' B D L 
36. 23.39 U' B2 D2 U F2 L2 D' B2 L2 R' B L2 F' R D' L' B R U' 
37. 19.63 U2 F2 L' D2 B2 R B2 F2 R' U2 R2 B' U' R' B D F D B2 L2 
38. (DNF(0.98)) L2 F2 L2 U2 B' D2 F' L2 R2 U2 F D L R' B L' B U2 B' 
39. 25.83 U' R' F2 R2 B2 D2 L' F2 R D2 F2 R D2 F' D L F U' L2 F 
40. 29.45 R2 B2 D B2 L2 U' F2 R2 U2 B2 R2 L B2 R F' D B D' R' F' 
41. 22.52 B' D' F2 L2 D2 U2 L B2 U2 L' D2 L U2 D R' B' F R' B D 
42. 28.48 R2 U L R2 U' F2 R2 D' L2 U2 L2 B2 R2 U' B L F D2 L U' B2 
43. 23.22 F L' U' F2 U B2 U R2 B2 D' R2 B2 F2 U L' D L B' R2 F U' 
44. 27.80 B L' B2 D B2 U2 L2 R2 U' L2 U2 L2 F L B' R' D' R' D2 L' 
45. 21.47 L D2 R' B U D F L' R2 U2 D2 B' U2 F' U2 B' R2 L2 B U' 
46. 19.93 L' F R2 B R B' L D B2 D2 B' R2 L2 B2 D2 B' D2 L2 B2 U2 R 
47. 21.14 F D B2 U2 L' B' R' L2 B2 U F2 L2 U2 R2 D2 F2 U' F2 U' F R2 
48. 22.07 U2 F' D' L F L2 B R U' B2 U2 F2 D' F2 R2 U2 R2 U' R2 F2 B' 
49. 20.92 L2 U2 B2 L' U2 F2 L R2 F2 D2 U2 L' D R' F2 U F R2 B' L D2 
50. 24.73 F R D' F2 R L2 D2 F' U' L U2 D R2 L2 F2 U R2 B2 D' F2 B2 
51. 25.69 L F2 B2 D2 L' D R2 D B F2 D R2 U2 D F2 B2 R2 D L2 
52. 20.64 R U' R' D2 L2 F D L' F' D2 R F2 R' B2 L D2 B2 L F2 R F2 
53. 23.23 B' U2 R2 U' F2 R2 F2 R2 F2 R2 U F' R' B2 L' D B' D' U F 
54. 22.46 B2 U L2 U2 R2 D L2 U' F U' B' R' D2 F R2 F U' R2 
55. (36.75) R' B R D' L B2 L' F' L' R2 D2 R2 L2 B U2 F' B' R2 U2 
56. 21.19 U' L2 F2 U' B2 U F2 D2 L2 F2 U R2 L D' B' D' R' F D R2 
57. 25.79 R2 B2 D L2 U2 L2 R2 U L2 U L D L B R U2 B U' B 
58. 20.80 L2 F D2 B' D2 R2 D2 F U2 F' L2 B2 U' B2 U L' U2 B' L2 B U' 
59. 23.65 L B' L2 R2 B R2 B F L2 U2 L2 F D' R2 F U F R' D U 
60. 24.86 D2 U2 F L2 R2 F L2 D2 B' F' U F U F2 R2 F R F R' 
61. 23.72 D L U2 R' F2 U' D R' F L2 U R2 L2 D' R2 U2 L2 F2 R2 L2 U2 
62. 20.07 U2 R' B U2 R U' R2 F' L' D2 R2 L2 F' L2 B' L2 U2 F' R2 L2 D 
63. 23.44 R' F' U' L' B R U' B2 L' U2 F2 D2 B2 L2 F2 L2 U' L2 D R2 
64. 21.34 F2 D' U' R2 D2 R2 F2 D' B2 U' L2 U' B D2 L B2 F' D B' L2 F 
65. 26.14 L2 B U L F D' L U B2 U R2 D2 R2 L2 U L2 F2 U B D' 
66. (32.77) U2 R2 F2 D' L2 U' B2 D' L2 D2 L2 U L' B' R' U2 B' D' F U F2 
67. 25.75 F' U B2 L2 D2 B' F2 L2 D2 F' D2 L2 U B U L R2 F D 
68. 23.77 B2 L2 F2 U2 B2 D L2 R2 B2 U' R2 U' B F U' F' R B F R2 
69. 31.06 B2 R2 D2 R' U2 B2 U2 L U2 B2 R F R F2 U' B2 R' U' L2 R2 
70. 23.54 U2 L R2 B2 R2 D2 B' F U2 F D2 B' D' B' R B' D' R B2 
71. 20.04 D' L' F' L B2 L2 U' B R' B R2 B' L2 U2 D2 F2 U2 R2 F L2 
72. 20.34 R2 U2 F' B' U L' B L' D L F2 L F2 U2 F2 U2 R2 F2 L 
73. 27.15 F U' B D2 R2 F D2 B D2 F R2 U2 L2 U L' F D R B' U F2 
74. 26.74 U2 B' R2 D2 F2 D B2 L2 F2 L2 U2 F2 D B2 R' D' R2 B' D' B2 U 
75. 27.37 B' D2 U' L2 U R2 F2 U L2 R2 F2 R2 D' B' L' F' D2 R B R D 
76. 22.40 B2 U2 D' F' R F2 U2 R' D L2 U F2 U2 B2 U L2 B2 U' F2 U2 
77. (17.33) B U2 R2 D' B2 F2 D R2 D R2 U2 F L' D R B2 D2 B' U L2 
78. 25.96 B' L2 F L2 B' R2 D2 F' U2 F' R2 L' B' D' U2 F2 L' R D B2 
79. 24.68 R2 D2 R2 B U B' L' F R F2 U' R2 U L2 D' R2 F2 U2 R2 U2 R2 
80. 20.16 L2 R2 D F2 U' F2 U' F2 U R2 F2 D' B' D' B' F L' B2 D2 U2 L' 
81. 21.48 R' B D' L' B R U B2 R F2 R' F2 D2 R U2 R D2 F U2 
82. 22.05 B D2 R2 L2 U F2 R B' U2 L' D2 B2 U2 B2 R2 D2 R' F2 D2 L' 
83. 21.90 F2 L2 D2 L2 U2 F2 R F2 R' D2 B2 L' U' B L' B2 D2 F U B' 
84. 19.40 U2 B' R F2 D R U2 D F' R2 U2 F2 R2 U F2 D' F2 B2 L2 D2 
85. 23.46 R2 D2 B2 L2 D2 R' F2 L' F2 R B2 F2 U R' F D2 L2 D2 L2 
86. 23.15 U F' D' B' D' R F D R U L2 U L2 U L2 B2 R2 L2 D B2 D' 
87. 30.82 B2 L2 F L2 R2 F2 U2 R2 B' D2 L2 B' R' D' R2 D' L2 F D' R2 
88. 21.31 D2 L2 D F2 R2 F2 D' L2 D' L F2 L B D2 L2 B' D F' L' 
89. 21.01 R B2 U2 F R2 D L D F R2 F L2 F' U2 L2 U2 F' R2 F' 
90. 21.52 U B' D B' R' D2 F' L2 B R2 B2 D' R2 U L2 D B2 L2 U2 B2 
91. 25.46 U' D2 L U2 R D2 U2 L' F2 L U2 R' U L2 F' L' R' U F R2 F 
92. 27.78 U2 D F R2 L' B2 D' R B2 U2 R2 U2 L2 F U2 L2 F' U2 L2 U B 
93. 31.64 R' B2 U2 B2 D B2 U F2 U R2 F2 U2 R' U F L2 D' B D L2 
94. 20.27 F2 B' L U' D2 R2 L U D2 R2 F R2 F D2 F2 L2 U2 F' R' 
95. 22.14 R U2 B2 F2 L U2 F2 L R2 D2 R' F2 U' B2 L' B' L' F2 L2 D' 
96. 21.49+ B2 R U' F' R L2 U' L2 D2 F R2 F' R2 U2 L2 F L2 D F' 
97. 23.22 B' L2 B2 L2 U2 B' L2 B' D2 R2 F2 U L D' U' B' F U' L' F2 
98. 20.53 D' R' F2 L2 F' D F2 L B' L2 B2 D2 B2 L F2 D2 R' L2 U2 B2 
99. (18.15) F2 B U R U' D' B U2 R' F2 L2 U2 R' U2 L B2 U2 L' U2 F' 
100. 22.05 R2 F D2 B2 U2 B' U2 L2 F R2 L' U L2 F D' F D R2 D'


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## muchacho (May 13, 2020)

OH PB single: 14.56 (was 14.83 from 1-May)

No reconstruction, it was a mis-scramble


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## Mike3451 (May 13, 2020)

I've almost memorized Full PLL. I just have another R perm, another N Perm, and the G Perms. I'm averaging sub 25 right now.


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## CLL Smooth (May 14, 2020)

muchacho said:


> OH PB single: 14.56 (was 14.83 from 1-May)
> 
> No reconstruction, it was a mis-scramble


Nice! My Pb sheet from a few years ago says my single is 14.882. It looks like you got me beat. I put another 100+ solves in this week. I managed to get a pretty nice Ao5: 21.233 got a couple of sub-20 singles too, my first since starting again.


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## muchacho (May 19, 2020)

Improved my Ao100 OH PB just a bit, 23.15 (was 23.21). I've not learn more CMLL algs yet, first I'll do some deliberate practice with the those two I've learned so far. I was only doing them when they appeared in solves, which is probably not the best approach.

Ao1000 is at 24.63.



Spoiler



Generated By csTimer on 2020-05-19
avg of 100: 23.15

Time List:
1. 23.34 D' L F' L B' L2 D' F' L2 F L2 F U2 B2 R2 D2 R2 L2 B D' L 
2. 22.08 F2 B2 R2 U' B R' F2 U' F D' F2 U' R2 F2 D2 F2 L2 F2 R2 D B2 
3. 21.78 B R2 F' R D' L B R B2 R2 B R2 F' R2 U2 F2 B R2 U2 R' 
4. 28.10 D' R B2 L2 D' B2 U R2 D' B2 D' L2 B' R D U2 F2 U B' R2 
5. 20.24 R2 B' D2 F2 L U2 L D2 L2 B2 L U2 B2 F U' R' D L B2 D' 
6. 21.20 R' B' R' D2 L U2 F2 L' F2 D2 L' R2 U2 R2 F R' B2 L' B U F2 
7. 24.49 L2 F U2 B L2 B2 R2 B' D2 B' U2 F2 L' B' L' R2 F2 R2 U R' 
8. 24.82 F2 R' B2 L F2 D2 L2 R' D2 L F2 D' L2 D' B F' R B2 U L2 
9. 20.81 F2 R' F R2 F L2 D2 F' L2 F2 R2 D2 R2 D2 R U' R2 B' L' U L' 
10. 20.72 F2 D' U' L2 D B2 D2 U B2 R' B' F2 U2 L F2 D U' B F2 
11. 20.69 U2 R2 B2 U L2 D F2 U R2 L' D B' U' F D U' R' F L' 
12. (17.88) B L D2 R2 F' B2 D L2 F2 U2 D2 F D2 F2 D2 R2 D2 F U2 L D' 
13. 23.96 R2 B' R2 F' L2 F D2 L2 F L2 B2 R B' L' U' R2 B2 D2 F' U 
14. 29.80 L' U' L2 D' B2 U' L2 B2 L2 B2 U L F2 U2 B' R B2 F D 
15. 26.68 D B' L2 R2 B2 U' F2 U' F2 R2 D' B2 D2 L2 R' D F' U' R2 F' L2 
16. (30.79) F L U R2 F2 R2 B2 U L2 D' B2 F2 R2 F' L' B2 F' D B R' 
17. 23.37 F D2 F' U' B2 U' R2 D U F2 U' B2 F U2 F' D' F' L' U' 
18. (18.13) U F' L2 D2 F2 U2 F2 U2 F D2 U2 R2 L' U F L2 U L B' R 
19. 26.36 B2 R' U F2 D' B2 R2 U B2 R2 U' F2 L' D' B2 L U' B D2 U' 
20. 18.48 U2 L2 D R2 F2 U F2 D L2 D B2 U2 L F U L U2 R U2 F' L2 
21. 29.89 F D' R2 U L2 D2 L2 D' B2 D' R2 F D' U F D2 R D2 U2 
22. 23.88 F' L' U' D L U' L2 B U' R2 B2 L2 U2 L2 D F2 U2 D' R2 U R' 
23. 25.08 R B2 R2 U' D' L F' D F' R2 U2 F2 B' D2 B' U2 R2 L 
24. 21.65 L2 F2 L U2 L2 F2 D2 B F2 R2 F' D2 U2 L U R F2 D' L' D' 
25. 25.57 F' R' D2 U2 B2 D2 R B2 R' F2 R2 F U' L D F R' F' R2 
26. 19.93 L2 U2 B R2 B' L2 D2 B2 F' R2 F2 D' L F R' B U L2 F D2 L' 
27. 26.48 R F R2 U2 R2 B' L2 R2 B2 U2 L2 R2 F2 U' L' B2 F' D F' L U 
28. 24.60 D R L' F' L2 D' L U2 F2 B' U2 F2 D2 R2 D2 L2 F' R2 D' B2 R2 
29. 24.29 U2 B' R' U2 L' B2 R' U' F U2 F2 D2 L' B2 L D2 B2 R B2 
30. 28.40 B U2 L2 U2 F' R2 B D2 L2 F' D2 F D' L U2 F' L2 B2 U' R' 
31. 20.13 L B R F2 D B U' R2 B U2 R L2 D2 L2 F2 D2 B2 D2 B2 
32. 20.95 L D' U2 L2 F2 D B2 R2 B2 U' F2 R B R' D R2 U2 F2 L' R' 
33. 20.21 U2 R2 B2 D2 R2 F' R2 B2 D2 F' L2 F D' R F U2 R2 F R2 D F' 
34. 24.51 B2 R' U2 R D2 L B2 R B2 L2 R' F2 U L2 B' L U L' F U R 
35. 21.54 B2 F2 D R2 U L2 F2 L2 R2 U2 B2 U' B' F' U L' U' B2 L2 F U 
36. 23.80 D R B2 L2 U' B2 L2 D U F2 R2 D' U' R' D' B R2 U F2 D2 
37. 22.78 D2 L B2 L U2 R D2 F2 R2 D2 R U2 D' R F' L' U2 R' D 
38. 19.43 L' B2 R U' L' U' R' F' U2 F2 U' R2 U F2 U' F2 L2 D L2 D2 
39. 20.09 D F' D2 L2 B' L2 F R2 B' U2 B L2 B2 R U2 R' U F L' R' F' 
40. 27.48 F U F' D F B' R F2 D2 F L2 D2 B2 R2 F' D2 R2 B L2 
41. 23.25 D2 F2 U2 R2 F L2 F D2 F R2 U2 B2 L' F D' U' L' R' D' F' 
42. 21.95 D2 B D2 F U2 F L2 F R2 F U L2 U' B F U' L B' U F' 
43. 20.76 B' D2 R' U2 L' R' U2 R B2 F2 D2 U B L' R B' L U R2 
44. 25.19 F R2 B2 U2 F2 R2 F2 U L2 D U2 R2 D L' B' F2 L D' F L2 B' 
45. 23.86 B' L2 B' F2 L2 B' D2 B' U2 R2 U2 L2 D B L' R2 B' L2 U R F' 
46. 25.08 F L' U' L2 D B2 F2 R2 U' L2 R2 B2 R F D' R2 F' L' B2 F 
47. (29.99) B2 L2 U' B2 L2 U2 F2 D B2 F2 U' B' L2 F2 D2 U B' D R' D' L' 
48. 27.16 R2 D B2 F2 D' R2 D2 F2 D B2 U' R' U2 B' U' F' D2 L B2 L2 D 
49. 20.88 U' L' U2 R U2 L' D2 U2 R U2 R F2 D' R' B R' F' D' L' D R' 
50. 23.11 L' F2 B' L2 U2 B U' F R' D2 F2 B2 R' B2 R U2 R' D2 L' U2 
51. 20.72 D2 R D2 B' D2 B R2 F D2 B' U2 B' F' R B' R' D' B2 L U 
52. (47.26) U B2 D' F2 B R2 L F R2 U2 R' F2 L B2 U2 L' D2 L B 
53. 22.99 B2 U D2 L U B D' B2 L U2 L2 U' L2 U F2 U F2 U2 F2 D 
54. 20.04 D2 L2 B2 D' B2 R2 F2 L2 D2 U F L D' R' D' R2 F' D' F' D 
55. 25.30 B2 L R2 B2 L' U2 L' D2 L2 U2 R' U2 B' D U2 R2 U2 L' R D2 U' 
56. 25.95 U F2 L2 D' F2 D' B2 D' F2 R2 D2 B L2 U' R' F2 U2 F2 U' R 
57. 19.94 U F2 U' L U' D2 B' D L U R2 U2 D L2 U' R2 U L2 F2 R2 
58. (16.17) L F2 L' B' U' R L' F U B U2 R2 B2 R2 B2 R2 U2 F' R2 B R2 
59. 22.39 R2 D' L2 F2 D L2 U' R2 D' R2 F2 D2 L B F U' R B' L D' U 
60. 20.68 D' F2 U L B2 D R' U B R B2 L' B2 L' B2 U2 L2 F2 R 
61. (36.05) R2 F' R U' R2 D B2 L2 U' B2 D' F2 U2 B2 L' D L D' F' R U' 
62. 18.68 F D2 U2 B2 U2 L2 F' L2 F D2 L2 B' D L2 F2 L B2 F' R' U' B2 
63. 22.36 U' F' B2 D2 L' R2 F2 D2 R F2 U2 F2 R2 D L' D2 U F' R' B' 
64. 22.95 R2 U2 B2 R2 D2 R U2 L B2 R2 U2 F2 U' B' U2 L2 D B2 R B' U 
65. 20.26 B2 R2 B2 U2 L2 U' B2 R2 F' L B2 D R' U' R B' F2 U 
66. 18.67 R2 D2 F' U2 B' R2 F' L2 D2 R2 F' L' U' B' R F U' F R' U 
67. 22.18 F2 R2 F2 U B2 D U B2 U2 B2 R' B U2 L' B' L F U B2 L 
68. 25.75 B2 D B2 U' F2 L2 U' F2 U2 L2 U2 L2 R D2 U F D2 B D' U2 
69. 20.47 U F' R' L2 U2 L2 B2 F' L2 R2 U2 F R2 B D F2 U2 L' U2 F2 U' 
70. 22.38 L2 F2 U' B2 D' U L2 D' B2 U2 L' D B' R U' B2 U' B2 L' U' 
71. (31.39) R L' B U' R D2 F' D' B2 R U2 L2 U2 L2 B2 D2 L' D2 R2 B2 
72. 28.09 D2 R2 D2 F' L2 U2 B U2 B F2 R' F' L2 D F' R' U' F2 R 
73. 21.87 D2 U2 B' L2 B L2 R2 B D2 B' R2 D F' R' F' U' R2 D2 R B2 
74. 22.59 R' L2 D2 L2 B2 U R2 B2 R2 B2 D' R F' L U' B' L' D B2 U' 
75. 28.88 B' D2 B F' D2 F2 L2 R2 U2 F' D2 R' B U' F' R2 D R' D F' 
76. 22.27 U' R2 U2 B' R' D2 F B2 R2 F2 L2 U D2 L2 U' D' B2 L2 F2 R D 
77. 22.84 R2 U F2 R2 F2 U' F2 D R2 D B' F R D2 R2 U' F' D2 F' U2 
78. 19.64 L2 F R2 D2 F' L2 U2 B2 F U2 R' D B F' U L' F U' R 
79. 25.40 B' D L2 R2 D2 L2 B2 L2 F2 U B D2 R U L B R F2 D 
80. 21.92 R2 F2 U2 F2 D' L2 R2 U' L2 F2 R2 D2 R F' D2 L' F D2 B' F2 
81. 18.89 D B R F2 B' U B L R2 F L2 D2 B2 D2 B' L2 U2 B U2 F' U' 
82. 26.42+ R F2 D2 U' R2 D B2 L2 B2 D2 U' L2 F' D' L R D2 U' L' B' U2 
83. 27.15 D' L2 D' R2 D U2 R2 U2 B2 U' R2 B2 F L' R2 U' R' B' R2 D U2 
84. 21.54 U2 R D2 F D L D' R' B2 R2 D B2 U L2 U2 R2 D' F2 R' 
85. 20.70 L' F2 R' L U2 B R F' U' F2 U2 B2 U2 L2 D' L2 U L2 F2 B2 
86. 25.61 B2 L U2 L' R2 U2 L U2 F2 D2 R' B D L2 R' F2 R F' D' R' B 
87. 22.04 F' R2 U2 B' R2 F D2 B D2 U2 B' U' B' U2 L' U2 F' D U' F' U2 
88. 27.34 L2 F2 U F2 D' L2 F2 D' R2 U2 B2 D R' U2 L2 B U F' R' D L 
89. 23.33 R F' U R2 D' U2 F2 U' B2 R2 B2 L2 F' L2 U2 F L2 D' L2 
90. 23.52 B L' B2 D' B2 F2 L2 U L2 D' R2 D R2 F' D2 B2 F D2 U F2 
91. 22.35 R F R U B2 U F2 D F2 R2 B2 D F2 L' F2 D2 R B R2 D2 
92. 19.15 U L2 B2 D2 R2 L' F' U' L2 U B2 R2 U F2 B2 D R2 D' R' B2 
93. (18.22) F R' L D2 R2 F2 D' L F2 U2 B L2 B U2 F L2 F2 R2 F D' 
94. 23.04 U' F2 D' B' L2 D' B2 L' F U R2 L2 F2 D2 B2 D F2 R2 U2 L2 D 
95. 26.86 F' L D2 L2 B2 F2 D2 F2 L D2 L U2 L B F2 D U L' F' L2 U 
96. 27.88 U R2 F L2 U2 L2 U2 B' U2 B2 R2 D2 R F' U2 F D F' U2 R D 
97. 23.78 U R2 B' F2 D L2 D B2 F2 D' F2 R2 F R' B L2 U' F U2 
98. 22.04 F2 D2 F2 L2 D2 R2 F' L2 F' D2 L2 D R' F' D' B' L' D B2 
99. (16.34) U' R' F U D' B2 L' B2 D F U2 B' D2 B' D2 R2 L2 F D2 B' L2 
100. 18.22 U2 B2 L2 D2 B2 L D2 U2 F2 R' U2 B2 F' L R2 U' F R2 D L B


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## One Wheel (May 20, 2020)

I'm slow-rolling everything else for a while while I try to figure out 3-style, and I'm running up against a fairly consistent problem, wondering if anybody knows where I should look for what I'm doing wrong. I'm just scrambling a cube, solving the edges, and then I trace out the first two corner targets and figure out a comm to solve them. Sometimes it takes me the better part of a day to figure out the comm, and when I do I get one of 3 results: 

10% the cube is scrambled
30% both targets are solved
60% one target is solved, and the other is in the right place but twisted. 

Am I just making a tracing error? Any idea what's going on?


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## Lightake.com (May 20, 2020)

It's never too old to learn!


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## mitja (May 20, 2020)

One Wheel said:


> I'm slow-rolling everything else for a while while I try to figure out 3-style, and I'm running up against a fairly consistent problem, wondering if anybody knows where I should look for what I'm doing wrong. I'm just scrambling a cube, solving the edges, and then I trace out the first two corner targets and figure out a comm to solve them. Sometimes it takes me the better part of a day to figure out the comm, and when I do I get one of 3 results:
> 
> 10% the cube is scrambled
> 30% both targets are solved
> ...


I'm also rehearsing 3-style last two months. At the beginning I have got some twists. It is maybe from incorrect insertion. You know the correct target, but you insert from the wrong angle. I am just the beginner at 3-style, maybe someone experienced should answer better.


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## Mike Hughey (May 20, 2020)

One Wheel said:


> I'm slow-rolling everything else for a while while I try to figure out 3-style, and I'm running up against a fairly consistent problem, wondering if anybody knows where I should look for what I'm doing wrong. I'm just scrambling a cube, solving the edges, and then I trace out the first two corner targets and figure out a comm to solve them. Sometimes it takes me the better part of a day to figure out the comm, and when I do I get one of 3 results:
> 
> 10% the cube is scrambled
> 30% both targets are solved
> ...


Probably it is just a tracing error - you've probably figured out a commutator using one wrong sticker.

I found that it was a lot easier to learn the commutators by working with a solved cube. I then went alphabetically through the stickers and did what you're doing, but on a solved cube - plan to move two pieces, figure out the commutator, then apply and see what I get. (And I definitely did as you are doing - I figured out the commutator on my own - a good way to make sure you understand it.) Then if it's a case like your 60%, you can look and see what the buffer piece looks like and understand where the commutator was wrong. Also it lets you practice the inverse of the commutator after you're done to see if it restores the cube to solved correctly.

Of course, this takes a lot of commitment, since ideally you practice every algorithm. Ideally you go through all possible letter pairs to learn all the possible commutators. But as you work through the letters, you're doing the inverse too, so the number of cases go down as you go up. So my buffer piece is A; I first do B->C, then B->D, all the way through B->X. (As I go, after I do B->C, I do C->B to get back to a solved cube. After B->D, I do D->B to get back.) So now when I get through B->X, I move on to C, so it starts with C->D (I already did C->B after B->C, so the earlier letters don't need repeating). So by the time you get to W, there's just W->X and you're done!


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## openseas (May 21, 2020)

One Wheel said:


> I'm slow-rolling everything else for a while while I try to figure out 3-style, and I'm running up against a fairly consistent problem, wondering if anybody knows where I should look for what I'm doing wrong. I'm just scrambling a cube, solving the edges, and then I trace out the first two corner targets and figure out a comm to solve them. Sometimes it takes me the better part of a day to figure out the comm, and when I do I get one of 3 results:
> 
> 10% the cube is scrambled
> 30% both targets are solved
> ...



I'm with Mike, it happens a lot making trace errors. I do even these days - ended up with flipped edges and twisted corners just because I traced wrong.

For commutators, I found it easier to learn with 4x4x4 Center since everything is really clear, you can see the changes without interruption. I recommend to watch Daniel's 4BLD center tutorial in which he explains commutator nice and easy. It is nothing to do with 4BLD but to do with commutator understanding. You can see each A, B, C moves quite easily compared to 3x3x3 (edge or corner).


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## CLL Smooth (May 21, 2020)

@muchacho 
It looks like I’m right back on track now. I just beat my old OH pb Ao12 with a 22.172 from the 22.22 I set a few years ago. Got a +2 on one solve but luckily it ended up being the slowest solve or I would’ve been pretty upset


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## JanW (May 23, 2020)

One Wheel said:


> I'm slow-rolling everything else for a while while I try to figure out 3-style, and I'm running up against a fairly consistent problem, wondering if anybody knows where I should look for what I'm doing wrong. I'm just scrambling a cube, solving the edges, and then I trace out the first two corner targets and figure out a comm to solve them. Sometimes it takes me the better part of a day to figure out the comm, and when I do I get one of 3 results:
> 
> 10% the cube is scrambled
> 30% both targets are solved
> ...


I went through all of that a few years ago. Like Mike, I also think it's easier to learn working with a solved cube. Once you figure out a commutator, you can repeat it several times to remember it better. Another thing I'd recommend is that whenever you find a good commutator, look for all cases it can easily be applied to. Let's say there's an easy insertion from top layer to bottom layer, with interchange done on bottom layer. Perform that a few times, then look for all possible cycles that can be set up to that case in one or maybe even two setup moves, and drill all of them backwards and forwards. This lets you practice the commutator moves a lot, as well as gives you good practice in spotting and performing setup moves.


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## muchacho (Jun 4, 2020)

I haven't learned more algs, and I don't feel like I'm improving, but somehow my OH Ao12 PB did, from 21.20 to 20.43 



Spoiler



Generated By csTimer on 2020-06-04
avg of 12: 20.43

Time List:
1. 19.76 R U' B D' R2 U B2 D R2 U2 R2 D2 U' R' B2 D U F' R F'
2. 21.42 B2 U' R2 D' U' L2 B2 D2 F2 R B' F D B F2 R B2 R'
3. 20.41 F2 D F2 R2 D' U2 L2 D' R2 F2 R2 U' B U L' D R U' L2 B2 L
4. 20.96 D2 B R' D2 L U' R' F D' B2 R2 L2 D L2 F2 U2 F2 D2 L2 F
5. 21.58 U2 B2 D2 R2 B D2 F U2 B2 F' U2 D F' L' B R' D U2 F2 L R2
6. (26.33) B' R2 D2 B L2 B' D2 F' L2 R U' L F' L2 B' D B' U' R'
7. (18.44) D' L2 D R2 L' D2 F B2 D B2 L2 D2 B2 R2 U R2 F2 D B' L2
8. 22.30 L2 F' D2 F' D2 U2 F2 D2 B' U2 F R2 U' F2 R' B D2 F U L B
9. 18.99 B2 R2 B2 L2 U L2 D' U' R2 B D' U' L' U F' D2 B' D2 U'
10. 21.30 D' R2 D2 R2 D' L2 D' R2 U L2 R2 F R D2 B L2 U' L2 U R D'
11. 18.71 D R2 U2 B2 U' F2 D' L2 F2 L2 U L U' F2 U2 R' F U B' F
12. 18.84 B2 R2 D' B2 U' F2 D R2 B2 L2 U' L U' R' F2 R2 U2 B' D' R


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## One Wheel (Jun 12, 2020)

I just improved my 3x3 Ao5 by 0.09 seconds to 20.00:

1. (17.19) @2020-06-12 10:54:52 
2. 18.37 @2020-06-12 10:55:35 
3. 21.20 @2020-06-12 10:56:17 
4. (22.55) @2020-06-12 10:57:09 
5. 20.44 @2020-06-12 10:58:02

Someday I'll get sub-20.


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## ep2 (Jun 14, 2020)

ep2 said:


> After months stagnating around 31/32 seconds, I just stopped timing myself and did hand scrambles. I did my first timed solves in about 8 weeks yesterday and straight away got my first sub 30 avg 12.



About a month later and making some progress again. Focusing on cross the last week or two, and it's paying off:


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## EngiNerdBrian (Jun 14, 2020)

ep2 said:


> About a month later and making some progress again. Focusing on cross the last week or two, and it's paying off:
> 
> View attachment 12566


Good stuff. Did you get PLL finished?


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## ep2 (Jun 14, 2020)

EngineeringBrian said:


> Good stuff. Did you get PLL finished?



Actually no, I still have 2 Gs and an N to go. But decided to put it on hold and concentrate on cross and I'll move onto some F2L soon too. I'll maybe try finish them off again if I stop making these improvements, but happy enough going with this until that happens.


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## muchacho (Jun 18, 2020)

OH PB: 13.76 ...was 14.56, and I didn't expect to beat that in a very long time.

L D' L B2 D2 B2 U B2 R2 D' R2 D F2 L2 F U2 R' U L B' F'


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## CLL Smooth (Jun 19, 2020)

@muchacho 
Damn dude! I stopped practicing and started drilling ZBLLs again. I don’t know what I’m doing with my life right now


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## pglewis (Jul 3, 2020)

3-move white cross, free F2L pair, PLL skip... forgot to start the timer. 11.71 on a 2nd attempt that I won't count as a PB but... shoulda-coulda.

U F' D B2 R F' U' D2 F2 R2 U2 L F2 R B2 D2 F2 D2 U' B2


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## Lid (Jul 15, 2020)

Not much going on here ... but I got a random new a12 PB on Sq-1 just before dinner: *14.558*

(11.831), 13.990, 14.881[p], (16.343), 12.886, 15.105, 14.652, 14.460, 15.169, 13.098, 14.998, 17.510[p]

I really need to start on CSP.



Spoiler: Scambles



Average of 12: 14.558
1. (11.831) (-3, 2) / (-5, -5) / (3, -3) / (-4, -1) / (1, -2) / (0, -4) / (-3, 0) / (3, 0) / (0, -2) / (-4, 0)
2. 13.990 (-2, 0) / (-3, 0) / (0, -3) / (6, 0) / (-4, -4) / (1, -2) / (5, 0) / (-3, 0) / (3, -1) / (0, -5) / (6, -4) / (-3, 0) / (0, -4) /
3. 14.881[p] (6, 5) / (0, -3) / (-5, -5) / (0, -3) / (-1, -1) / (-5, 0) / (0, -3) / (-3, 0) / (6, -2) / (-2, 0) / (0, -4) / (3, 0)
4. 16.343 (0, 2) / (4, -5) / (-1, -4) / (0, -3) / (0, -3) / (0, -5) / (-3, -3) / (4, 0) / (5, 0) / (-2, -3) / (-3, -2) /
5. 12.886 (-5, 6) / (3, -3) / (-4, -1) / (0, -3) / (1, -5) / (-4, -3) / (-3, -3) / (0, -5) / (4, -2) / (2, 0) / (0, -4) /
6. 15.105 (1, 0) / (-4, 5) / (-3, 0) / (1, -5) / (3, 0) / (0, -3) / (0, -4) / (-3, 0) / (0, -3) / (-5, 0) / (5, 0) / (-2, 0) / (5, 0) / (2, 0)
7. 14.652 (-2, 0) / (0, -3) / (-1, -4) / (-5, -5) / (6, 0) / (0, -3) / (0, -1) / (3, 0) / (2, 0) / (6, -2) / (3, -4) / (0, -2) / (-1, -2)
8. 14.460 (0, -4) / (-3, 6) / (-2, -5) / (-3, 0) / (2, -1) / (3, -5) / (0, -3) / (3, 0) / (-3, -5) / (2, -3) / (-4, 0)
9. 15.169 (6, 5) / (0, -3) / (4, -5) / (-3, -3) / (0, -3) / (3, 0) / (5, 0) / (-3, -3) / (-2, -1) / (4, 0) / (6, -4) / (2, 0)
10. 13.098 (1, 3) / (0, -3) / (-3, 0) / (-1, -4) / (3, 0) / (-3, 0) / (4, 0) / (0, -3) / (0, -2) / (-3, 0) / (3, 0) / (-4, 0) / (6, 0) /
11. 14.998 (-3, -1) / (4, -5) / (0, -3) / (3, 0) / (-4, 0) / (-3, 0) / (0, -3) / (4, 0) / (-2, 0) / (-4, -3) / (-2, 0) / (-4, 0) / (6, 0)
12. (17.510[p]) (-2, 0) / (2, -4) / (-3, 0) / (1, -5) / (5, -4) / (-3, 0) / (-2, 0) / (0, -3) / (-1, 0) / (-3, -4) / (-2, 0) / (-5, 0) / (6, -4)


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## Konsta (Jul 19, 2020)

I've been member of the forum for over 11 years now, but I turned 40 earlier this month so I guess that makes me one of them older cubers, hello everyone. 
My humble goal is to get sub 10 sec average at some point in competition with 3x3, that might never happen but it certainly won't happen unless I try.


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## pglewis (Jul 20, 2020)

Konsta said:


> I've been member of the forum for over 11 years now, but I turned 40 earlier this month so I guess that makes me one of them older cubers, hello everyone.
> My humble goal is to get sub 10 sec average at some point in competition with 3x3, that might never happen but it certainly won't happen unless I try.



Welcome to the old folks club! 

Same long-term goal here. It was initially sub 20, and I'm not quite there yet with a low 20 global average, but sub 20 is far from a crazy goal now. So sub 10 "one day" it is!


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## ep2 (Jul 20, 2020)

Konsta said:


> I've been member of the forum for over 11 years now, but I turned 40 earlier this month so I guess that makes me one of them older cubers, hello everyone.
> My humble goal is to get sub 10 sec average at some point in competition with 3x3, that might never happen but it certainly won't happen unless I try.



Not sure how up to date this is, but a sub-10 average would make you the second fastest 40+ solver: https://logiqx.github.io/wca-ipy-www/Senior_Rankings.html#333


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## pglewis (Jul 20, 2020)

ep2 said:


> Not sure how up to date this is, but a sub-10 average would make you the second fastest 40+ solver: https://logiqx.github.io/wca-ipy-www/Senior_Rankings.html#333



Last refreshed: 2020-07-20 04:13:46 (UTC)

@Logiqx not only keeps it up to date but has even added more functionality somewhat recently (like the filtering). It is still THE officially unofficial oldies list.


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## ep2 (Jul 20, 2020)

pglewis said:


> Last refreshed: 2020-07-20 04:13:46 (UTC)
> 
> @Logiqx not only keeps it up to date but has even added more functionality somewhat recently (like the filtering). It is still THE officially unofficial oldies list.



Oh yeah, I was more wondering about if all people of that age are in it, looks like you need to proactively get added, so imagine if you don't know about it, you won't be on it. Could be wrong on that though.

But agree, it's a great resource, and when I turn 40 next year, I hope to make it on that list, maybe not quite as high as others though.


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## Konsta (Jul 21, 2020)

ep2 said:


> Not sure how up to date this is, but a sub-10 average would make you the second fastest 40+ solver: https://logiqx.github.io/wca-ipy-www/Senior_Rankings.html#333


Fastest average is Ron's 11.91 if I'm reading that right.
This should already be doable for me as my global avg in home is around 11 sec,
but talk is cheap and performing in competition is very different from home. Have to wait and see when I have a chance to participate again,
can't see any upcoming competitions in Finland yet.
My last competition is from 2016 and before that 2013, so I'm probably a bit out of touch when joining next time and most likely won't be advancing to final rounds as people are so much faster now.


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## ep2 (Jul 21, 2020)

Yes, sorry, sub 10 single would be second fastest, sub 10 average would be fastest.


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## Jason Green (Jul 21, 2020)

ep2 said:


> Oh yeah, I was more wondering about if all people of that age are in it, looks like you need to proactively get added, so imagine if you don't know about it, you won't be on it. Could be wrong on that though.
> 
> But agree, it's a great resource, and when I turn 40 next year, I hope to make it on that list, maybe not quite as high as others though.


It is opt in, but WCA has provided enough data so he can determine if there are others faster that are not on the list. If you scroll through you'll see some missing rank numbers, those are the people missing from the list.


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## pglewis (Jul 29, 2020)

New PB by nearly 2 seconds: 12.19 with the help of a PLL skip. 

B2 F2 R2 U2 B2 U2 B2 R' U2 R D2 U F R F' L F D F


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## openseas (Jul 31, 2020)

Konsta said:


> Fastest average is Ron's 11.91 if I'm reading that right.
> This should already be doable for me as my global avg in home is around 11 sec,
> but talk is cheap and performing in competition is very different from home. Have to wait and see when I have a chance to participate again,
> can't see any upcoming competitions in Finland yet.
> My last competition is from 2016 and before that 2013, so I'm probably a bit out of touch when joining next time and most likely won't be advancing to final rounds as people are so much faster now.



Welcome! The best way is to send your BOD to Michael to confirm you're listed as a senior even though I know Michael has list of senior "candidates" who will turn 40 soon.


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## zinzan8 (Aug 12, 2020)

Hi guys, I'm new here, just introducing myself yesterday. 

What an epic thread. I don't think I'll read the whole thing very soon, lol, but quite inspired by the OP who was celebrating breaking 1 minute in 2012, and I see in his YT channel that he improved quite a lot the next few years, before hitting a wall at 19 seconds last year!

I'm 45-50s solver on the 3x3, and am just aiming at regular 30s solves, so 19s is not my target any time soon, if ever.


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## Jason Green (Aug 14, 2020)

zinzan8 said:


> Hi guys, I'm new here, just introducing myself yesterday.
> 
> What an epic thread. I don't think I'll read the whole thing very soon, lol, but quite inspired by the OP who was celebrating breaking 1 minute in 2012, and I see in his YT channel that he improved quite a lot the next few years, before hitting a wall at 19 seconds last year!
> 
> I'm 45-50s solver on the 3x3, and am just aiming at regular 30s solves, so 19s is not my target any time soon, if ever.


Glad you found this! There's a lot more activity on the Senior cubers worldwide Facebook group these days!


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## Logiqx (Aug 18, 2020)

@Konsta @ep2

A couple of points of note.

Firstly, I have anonymous stats which allow me to account for people who are missing from the rankings. You can see these where the rankings skip some of the numbers. Pretty much all of the fastest seniors are subscribed and their names are listed. It's lower down the rankings where numbers tend to be skipped.

Secondly, the rankings are updated daily. I have a server that downloads the WCA results database every morning and refreshes the rankings. Senior results therefore appear within a day of them being on the WCA website.

It'll be interesting to see what speed people can carry through into their 40s. I'd be very surprised if someone can learn to cube in their 40s and become sub-10 (average) but I think people who started long before their 40s may be able to maintain something close to sub-10. Time will tell...


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## Konsta (Aug 18, 2020)

Logiqx said:


> It'll be interesting to see what speed people can carry through into their 40s. I'd be very surprised if someone can learn to cube in their 40s and become sub-10 (average) but I think people who started long before their 40s may be able to maintain something close to sub-10. Time will tell...


To me having goals is more important than actually achieving them. So in a sense it would be optimal for me to never get that sub-10.

It has been really exciting to see how cubes have developed from the original rubik's brand to the current state.
I remember opening the boxes and testing them in stores to see which one was the loosest back in 2008 or so,
the stiff ones were impossible to cube with, but current times and techniques wouldn't be possible even with the loose ones.
Who knows what kind of cubes we have in 10 years. Personally I'm pretty happy to the quality of current 3x3 cubes, but I also see room for improvements.
The gan 356i was great help figuring out what was wrong in my solves, too bad it broke down, the v2 is on its way tho.
I'm super lazy doing reconstructions and sometimes I don't even manage to find my original solution if there are too many ways to do it,
so the automatic reconstruction has been golden. I mostly want to see move count and tps and doing full reconstruction just for that is a lot of work.


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## Ander (Aug 18, 2020)

I have just recently restarted cubing.
My previous bout, a couple of years ago, lasted a couple of months, and saw me beat (once) the 60s barrier using LBL (typical average abt. 80s). I didn't have much success with CFOP though. Basically, I sucked at intuitive F2L 
Now that I have restarted, I decided to use CFOP exclusively, and after some training I am starting to get faster in F2L, though I still average abt. 90s. Lousy, I know, but one week ago I was at 120s, so I am improving quickly. 
The target, this time, is getting to an average of 40s and getting my PB below 30s. Will I make it? I think so. It will take some time though, but I'm having fun, so who cares?


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## zinzan8 (Aug 18, 2020)

Yeah, have fun with it. 

I was timing myself on a stack mat or on cs timer, and was in the high 40s on average, with occasional 60s+. Then I got a smart cube (Gan 356 i2) and thought my times would drop quickly since timer stops and starts automatically. 

But now my average is mid-50s, with more frequent 60s+ and only occasional solves in low to mid 40s. :-(

But I have only had the 356 i about a week, and it is a lot looser than I like, so have slipped a few times. And I am trying to throw in a few “faster” algs. 

It’ll get better, and it’s still fun, so...


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## pglewis (Aug 19, 2020)

zinzan8 said:


> Hi guys, I'm new here, just introducing myself yesterday.
> 
> What an epic thread. I don't think I'll read the whole thing very soon, lol, but quite inspired by the OP who was celebrating breaking 1 minute in 2012, and I see in his YT channel that he improved quite a lot the next few years, before hitting a wall at 19 seconds last year!
> 
> I'm 45-50s solver on the 3x3, and am just aiming at regular 30s solves, so 19s is not my target any time soon, if ever.



Welcome to our little old folks club! 

I was struggling to average under a minute when I found this place. I still don't have an official sub 20 average (or even sub 30... it has been a while since I've been to a comp) but it's not all that uncommon for me to get a sub 20 Ao5 at home here and there, now. 17-18 are "good" solves for me but it takes a sub 15 to even get a fist-pump out of me these days. I still need work on consistency but I continue to see progress. Even those of us who aren't "a natural" can make up for it with stubbornness and practice!


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## pglewis (Aug 19, 2020)

Ander said:


> I have just recently restarted cubing.
> My previous bout, a couple of years ago, lasted a couple of months, and saw me beat (once) the 60s barrier using LBL (typical average abt. 80s). I didn't have much success with CFOP though. Basically, I sucked at intuitive F2L
> Now that I have restarted, I decided to use CFOP exclusively, and after some training I am starting to get faster in F2L, though I still average abt. 90s. Lousy, I know, but one week ago I was at 120s, so I am improving quickly.
> The target, this time, is getting to an average of 40s and getting my PB below 30s. Will I make it? I think so. It will take some time though, but I'm having fun, so who cares?



You have the right attitude: having fun is all that matters. You're in a wonderful position where knocking 10+ seconds off your times isn't difficult to do. It may not be all that long before you realize a PB of under :30 is quite achievable.


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## coinman (Aug 20, 2020)

I'm also a senior cuber, just turnd 55. Most of all I just wanted to say hello and show that I am still alive 
Many of the older cubers here, both Swedes and from other countries, probably know who I am since I participated in a few World Championships, and lots of other competitionsboth at home and abroad. I have not written anything here for several years. I'm still cubing but not as much as before and I have forgotten some algorithms, but who knows -someday I might start training again.
A few yers ago I also started a fairly popular competition in this forum that I have seen come to new life from time to time which I called the 100 moves challenge, try it, it's fun


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## Ander (Aug 20, 2020)

pglewis said:


> You have the right attitude: having fun is all that matters. You're in a wonderful position where knocking 10+ seconds off your times isn't difficult to do. It may not be all that long before you realize a PB of under :30 is quite achievable.



Thank you; in fact between yesterday and today I did a fair bit of solves and my averages have decreased somewhat; I got some AO5 below 80 s and some singles to slightly more than 60 s. More or less, I am now as fast - or rather slow - as I was (with much more training) doing LBL.
I have now started to learn 2-look OLL, so far edge is done and corner is 4/7. I want to memorize them all, do some practice, and then move to 2-look PLL. We'll see how this effort goes. Meanwhile, practice, practice...


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## SatansJester (Aug 24, 2020)

42 yo, first cube, first weekend with help from YT videos and first solve, done.
Now awaiting a Meilong M3 in the post and have started watching cfop F2L videos.
Much to learn


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## Tom Joad (Aug 28, 2020)

pglewis said:


> 3-move white cross, free F2L pair, PLL skip... forgot to start the timer. 11.71 on a 2nd attempt that I won't count as a PB but... shoulda-coulda.
> 
> U F' D B2 R F' U' D2 F2 R2 U2 L F2 R B2 D2 F2 D2 U' B2



Nice! 

A while since I taught myself anything new, will focus on my cross and looking ahead to first pair if I can find the time...

Mostly mindless solving, averaging 15 -16 seconds when I’m in the zone... it’s good to be back on here though, hopefully I’ll find the inspiration to move to the next level... I’d love to average 13 seconds!


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## Tom Joad (Aug 28, 2020)

pglewis said:


> New PB by nearly 2 seconds: 12.19 with the help of a PLL skip.
> 
> B2 F2 R2 U2 B2 U2 B2 R' U2 R D2 U F R F' L F D F
> 
> View attachment 13028



I find this scramble really difficult, do you have your solution?


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## pglewis (Aug 28, 2020)

Tom Joad said:


> I find this scramble really difficult, do you have your solution?


I didn't do a reconstruction, I was probably too busy dancing in my chair for the rest of the night lol


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## pglewis (Aug 28, 2020)

Tom Joad said:


> Nice!
> 
> A while since I taught myself anything new, will focus on my cross and looking ahead to first pair if I can find the time...
> 
> Mostly mindless solving, averaging 15 -16 seconds when I’m in the zone... it’s good to be back on here though, hopefully I’ll find the inspiration to move to the next level... I’d love to average 13 seconds!



I hit a really good spell recently where I got my first sub 20 Ao12 and then beat it the next day with a 19.08 Ao12 and a sub 21 Ao50. Then I had the fast single but didn't start the timer, another sub 14 single on my phone, and then finally the 12.19 on Stackmat. Only my Ao5 is still standing from last year at this point. 

My current focus is: 

* Work on faster back slot F2L pairs and give preference to back slots early in the solve to improve lookahead (I tend to favor front slots when rotating)
* Blind pair solving
* 2-sided OLL recognition... I tilt the cube or do U moves far too often when I should be able to determine the case without doing that

I think those things should eventually get me a couple seconds faster and maybe finally out of the low 20s.


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## pglewis (Aug 31, 2020)

Tom Joad said:


> I find this scramble really difficult, do you have your solution?



I finally had time to sit down and figure out what I did to get the PLL skip. It's just one of those lucky things where A) I saw my pairs quickly without much pausing and B) my odd, accidental choice of dealing with the third pair was key to getting the lucky skip.

B2 F2 R2 U2 B2 U2 B2 R' U2 R D2 U F R F' L F D F // Scramble
x2 // Inspection

L D' (L R') F2 D' // Cross
U L U' L' U' L U2 L' // First pair
U R U' R' y U R U' R' // Second pair
U L U2 L' y' U L' U2 L // Third pair *
U2 (R U' R') U2 (R U' R') // Last pair
U M' U' R U R' U' R' F R F' U2 M // AUF/OLL
U2 // AUF


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## joshsailscga (Aug 31, 2020)

pglewis said:


> I finally had time to sit down and figure out what I did to get the PLL skip. It's just one of those lucky things where A) I saw my pairs quickly without much pausing and B) my odd, accidental choice of dealing with the third pair was key to getting the lucky skip.
> 
> B2 F2 R2 U2 B2 U2 B2 R' U2 R D2 U F R F' L F D F
> 
> ...



*Inspection: x2 before the solve 

Makes the cross work a little better than if you execute from scramble orientation XD

Interestingly, I do an almost mirror of that OLL alg, so the oriented corners face away from me and I do M U R U R' U' R' F R F' M'. Seems a little more fingertrickable if you want to play with it.


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## pglewis (Aug 31, 2020)

joshsailscga said:


> *Inspection: x2 before the solve
> 
> Makes the cross work a little better than if you execute from scramble orientation XD
> 
> Interestingly, I do an almost mirror of that OLL alg, so the oriented corners face away from me and I do M U R U R' U' R' F R F' M'. Seems a little more fingertrickable if you want to play with it.



Yeah, I neglected to include the inspection, initially. 

I'll eventually learn the y2 oriented version of that OLL, I see on AlgDB that's the one most people use (if that's what you're talking about). I just learned the one above initially so it's always been "my alg".


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## Puffin (Aug 31, 2020)

Do you all think there's an upper bound on how fast older cubers can be? I've heard that "hands slow down" as we age, and as a late starter I often wonder what kind of times are realistic for speed cubing. I'm more interested in magic cubes and new puzzles, but I would also like to try to get fast. I'm just not sure what that means. What are the Senior Tour records or the adjusted sub-20 for the over 40 crowd?


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## Mike Hughey (Aug 31, 2020)

Puffin said:


> Do you all think there's an upper bound on how fast older cubers can be? I've heard that "hands slow down" as we age, and as a late starter I often wonder what kind of times are realistic for speed cubing. I'm more interested in magic cubes and new puzzles, but I would also like to try to get fast. I'm just not sure what that means. What are the Senior Tour records or the adjusted sub-20 for the over 40 crowd?


This is the best source of results for us old folks, provided by one of our members here (Logiqx):





Senior Rankings


Senior Rankings



logiqx.github.io





Realistically, I'd say the majority of those here who are consistently sub-20 probably started cubing before they were 40. But there are certainly a few examples of people who have managed to get well sub-20 despite starting cubing after they turned 40, so it's possible.

I'm fairly decent at piano, and my fingers are still quite fast for that at age 58, so I find it hard to believe it's really a problem with fingers being too slow. I do think it takes a lot more practice to get fast at cubing when you're older, though, and since most of us don't have all that much time for practice, it's not surprising we tend not to get very fast. Speed and precision (and quick thinking!) are all required, and mainly that just takes a lot of practice, and probably more practice for older people than for younger people. But I suspect the limit is probably way better than most of us think, for someone who is truly dedicated. I certainly think sub-10 is possible even for someone my age, with enough practice. But I'm pretty sure that someone will not be me.


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## pglewis (Aug 31, 2020)

Puffin said:


> Do you all think there's an upper bound on how fast older cubers can be? I've heard that "hands slow down" as we age, and as a late starter I often wonder what kind of times are realistic for speed cubing. I'm more interested in magic cubes and new puzzles, but I would also like to try to get fast. I'm just not sure what that means. What are the Senior Tour records or the adjusted sub-20 for the over 40 crowd?



I'm 52 and slow pattern recognition and lookahead are my bottlenecks, not slow hands.


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## Logiqx (Sep 2, 2020)

Mike Hughey said:


> Realistically, I'd say the majority of those here who are consistently sub-20 probably started cubing before they were 40. But there are certainly a few examples of people who have managed to get well sub-20 despite starting cubing after they turned 40, so it's possible.
> 
> probably more practice for older people than for younger people. But I suspect the limit is probably way better than most of us think, for someone who is truly dedicated. I certainly think sub-10 is possible even for someone my age, with enough practice. But I'm pretty sure that someone will not be me.



I first solved a cube at 39.5 and started speed cubing around 40.

At the age of 48, I'm currently ~14.5 seconds globally but if it weren't for side projects and other hobbies, I think sub-13 and maybe close to 12 seconds would have been achievable by now. My somewhat limited practice time is either maintaining speed or regaining lost speed, rather than improving.

I do get occasional sub-10 singles but I think it would be super-hard to be globally sub-10 for anyone starting after the age of 40.

I suspect there will be some faster guys coming through who started cubing earlier in their life and also, I think the rankings might be motivation for new seniors who have the time and motivation to get fast.

For example, @Konsta is now 40 and got a sub-12 average in comp. I believe he is after an official sub-10 average.

There are a bunch of sub-10 solvers around the age of 30 so it'll be interesting to see what they can do in their 40s.


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## zslane (Sep 2, 2020)

Out of curiosity, what is now generally considered the 3x3 solve time that defines a "speed solve"? In other words, what does one's average have to be to be officially considered a "speed solver" today?


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## One Wheel (Sep 2, 2020)

zslane said:


> Out of curiosity, what is now generally considered the 3x3 solve time that defines a "speed solve"? In other words, what does one's average have to be to be officially considered a "speed solver" today?


The way I've heard it if you're trying to solve fast and timing your solves, as opposed to just solving without regard for how long it takes, that makes you a speedsolver.


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## Puffin (Sep 4, 2020)

Another question for the group: 

My wife wants me to get a new shelf for my cubes. Any suggestions — what are y'all using?


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## Tom Joad (Sep 5, 2020)

pglewis said:


> I finally had time to sit down and figure out what I did to get the PLL skip. It's just one of those lucky things where A) I saw my pairs quickly without much pausing and B) my odd, accidental choice of dealing with the third pair was key to getting the lucky skip.
> 
> B2 F2 R2 U2 B2 U2 B2 R' U2 R D2 U F R F' L F D F // Scramble
> x2 // Inspection
> ...



Cool, way faster than my solution! Also you must have executed it very smoothly for that time. I think I am good at easier solves but not great when the cross is more than five moves.

For the third pair, I can recommend U (regrip so thumb is on top) LU’LF’L’FL’

It’s rotationless and easy enough to sub-1 with a bit of drilling (learn the right handed version too)


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## pglewis (Sep 5, 2020)

Tom Joad said:


> Cool, way faster than my solution! Also you must have executed it very smoothly for that time. I think I am good at easier solves but not great when the cross is more than five moves.



It was about as easy as a 6-move cross gets for me, at least. I can clearly visualize what to do with that situation and the L R' part can kinda be done at the same time. 

The rest was just a case of seeing and evaluating the pairs a lot more quickly than usual for me. 



Tom Joad said:


> For the third pair, I can recommend U (regrip so thumb is on top) LU’LF’L’FL’
> 
> It’s rotationless and easy enough to sub-1 with a bit of drilling (learn the right handed version too)



This is brilliant and I see the right handed version of this in J-Perm's PDF, now that I looked up the case. Of course my weird handling of it (not even how I'd normally solve that pair) was the stroke of luck required for the PLL skip, but that was a total fluke. Your approach is immediately going into my toolbelt.


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## Nir1213 (Sep 5, 2020)

MarcelP said:


> Hi Guys,
> 
> My name is Marcel, 42 years old. I have learned to solve the cube at age 11 - 12 or so. I had not touched a cube a maybe 15 - 20 years. A few weeks ago I solved a cube and found it very nice to see that I still knew how to do that. When I looked at youtube I found amazing stuff from you speedsolvers. I thought it was the most amazing thing I have ever seen. I solved the cube in a layer by layer which could take up to 10 minutes.
> 
> ...


Funny, because i have the same goal. Im trying to get sub 1 minute average, my average right now i 1 min and 30 sec. My PB is 1 minute and 12 sec.
anyway, I hope you achieve your goal! Keep practicing!


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## Jason Green (Sep 5, 2020)

Nir1213 said:


> Funny, because i have the same goal. Im trying to get sub 1 minute average, my average right now i 1 min and 30 sec. My PB is 1 minute and 12 sec.
> anyway, I hope you achieve your goal! Keep practicing!


Marcel got to about a 17 second average I believe. This thread was a huge inspiration to many of us older cubers, but there is a lot more activity on the Senior Cubers Worldwide Facebook group now a days!


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## Nir1213 (Sep 5, 2020)

Jason Green said:


> Marcel got to about a 17 second average I believe. This thread was a huge inspiration to many of us older cubers, but there is a lot more activity on the Senior Cubers Worldwide Facebook group now a days!


Oh, I didnt know. But thats amazing! Im glad that he already is sub 20!


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## Nmile7300 (Sep 5, 2020)

Nir1213 said:


> Oh, I didnt know. But thats amazing! Im glad that he already is sub 20!


If you are 10 then you shouldn't be posting here.


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## Nir1213 (Sep 5, 2020)

Nmile7300 said:


> If you are 10 then you shouldn't be posting here.


Im not solving here or anything, im just saying congrats!


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## Nmile7300 (Sep 5, 2020)

Nir1213 said:


> Im not solving here or anything, im just saying congrats!


Ok I quoted the wrong post, this is what I meant to quote:


Nir1213 said:


> Funny, because i have the same goal. Im trying to get sub 1 minute average, my average right now i 1 min and 30 sec. My PB is 1 minute and 12 sec.
> anyway, I hope you achieve your goal! Keep practicing!


This doesn't belong in the thread, please just don't post here.

EDIT: Yes this is kind of hypocritical for me to post here telling this person not to, but @Nir1213 you are not an older cuber and therefore you should be having discussions in a different thread.


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## zinzan8 (Sep 6, 2020)

pglewis said:


> I finally had time to sit down and figure out what I did to get the PLL skip. It's just one of those lucky things where A) I saw my pairs quickly without much pausing and B) my odd, accidental choice of dealing with the third pair was key to getting the lucky skip.
> 
> B2 F2 R2 U2 B2 U2 B2 R' U2 R D2 U F R F' L F D F // Scramble
> x2 // Inspection
> ...



Thanks for this. I am a just a sub50 54yo cuber, and I need to do more of this—checking out other people’s solves, particular on cross and F2L. This was a good one.


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## pglewis (Sep 7, 2020)

zinzan8 said:


> Thanks for this. I am a just a sub50 54yo cuber, and I need to do more of this—checking out other people’s solves, particular on cross and F2L. This was a good one.



I'm 52 and was averaging in the :50s when I discovered this thread and I have stubbornly worked my way down to the low :20s now. I can't say my solve is a great example solve, especially that 3rd F2L pair. Like a lot of personal best singles it was luck and a little bit of a fluke. 

Do you do F2L or layer by layer? If you do F2L I can definitely suggest learning the very basics of edge orientation if you don't already. Recognizing the orientation of the edge in your pair is the best way I know to determine if you should rotate or not. Besides the lucky PLL skip, the one good thing I can say about my reconstruction is I only had two rotations during the solve.


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## zinzan8 (Sep 8, 2020)

pglewis said:


> I'm 52 and was averaging in the :50s when I discovered this thread and I have stubbornly worked my way down to the low :20s now. I can't say my solve is a great example solve, especially that 3rd F2L pair. Like a lot of personal best singles it was luck and a little bit of a fluke.
> 
> Do you do F2L or layer by layer? If you do F2L I can definitely suggest learning the very basics of edge orientation if you don't already. Recognizing the orientation of the edge in your pair is the best way I know to determine if you should rotate or not. Besides the lucky PLL skip, the one good thing I can say about my reconstruction is I only had two rotations during the solve.



Yeah, I get that you missed the easier/faster 3rd pair, and stumbled into good fortune. I just meant following along with someone can help me see through others eyes, and what they see next, and that will help me in my own pair recognition. And yep, seeing how you avoided rotations is also very educational for me. 

I use CFOP. I do one look PLLs, but mostly 2L OLLs. Just picking up some add’l algs here and there. 

You’re quite a success story in my book. I’ll be pleased when I get my first sub 30 solve, and my goal is a sub 35 avg with regular sub 30s.


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## pglewis (Sep 8, 2020)

zinzan8 said:


> Yeah, I get that you missed the easier/faster 3rd pair, and stumbled into good fortune. I just meant following along with someone can help me see through others eyes, and what they see next, and that will help me in my own pair recognition. And yep, seeing how you avoided rotations is also very educational for me.
> 
> I use CFOP. I do one look PLLs, but mostly 2L OLLs. Just picking up some add’l algs here and there.
> 
> You’re quite a success story in my book. I’ll be pleased when I get my first sub 30 solve, and my goal is a sub 35 avg with regular sub 30s.



You're in a good place as far as algorithms learned. I'm only recently able to say I know full OLL-- for about the fourth time since I continually forget a few-- and when the timer is running I still sometimes resort to 2-look on a handful of cases that cause me to pause for memory recall. 

The good news: you'll probably find sub :30 to be very achievable if you stick with it. Sub :20 seemed like an insane goal for me way back when and now I view it as inevitable if I can keep my practice routine and patiently hammer away at it. 

The bad news: the goalposts just never stop moving . I'm not even reliably sub :20 and I'm already looking forward to attacking sub :15. It takes a :16 or better to even get a reaction nowadays and yet I can still vividly remember jumping out of my chair over my first sub :30. Welcome to our little insanity!


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## pglewis (Sep 9, 2020)

By the way @zinzan8: there is a Facebook group named "Senior Cubers Worldwide" that is very active right now. I still love this thread and keep an eye on notifications but much of the activity that used to take place here has moved over there.


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## zinzan8 (Sep 10, 2020)

pglewis said:


> By the way @zinzan8: there is a Facebook group named "Senior Cubers Worldwide" that is very active right now. I still love this thread and keep an eye on notifications but much of the activity that used to take place here has moved over there.



Yep, I joined it a couple weeks ago. Thanks!


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## StanMan (Sep 15, 2020)

Is there a specific age limit for this forum? I'm in my mid 40's, old enough to remember the early years of the cubing fad. That probably makes me old by cubing standards. Picked it up pretty much for the first time 2 years ago and haven't stopped since.


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## zinzan8 (Sep 15, 2020)

StanMan said:


> Is there a specific age limit for this forum? I'm in my mid 40's, old enough to remember the early years of the cubing fad. That probably makes me old by cubing standards. Picked it up pretty much for the first time 2 years ago and haven't stopped since.



The OP of this thread was 42 when he created it many years ago. Yes, by cubing standards, you are on the older side... but nothing wrong with that! Your times are impressive to me! I’m averaging sub-50, shooting for sub-30, but I’ve got a long way to go.


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## One Wheel (Sep 15, 2020)

StanMan said:


> Is there a specific age limit for this forum? I'm in my mid 40's, old enough to remember the early years of the cubing fad. That probably makes me old by cubing standards. Picked it up pretty much for the first time 2 years ago and haven't stopped since.


I'm 33, which puts me between most of the guys on this thread and most cubers. Nobody's kicked me out of here yet!


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## StanMan (Sep 15, 2020)

Alright, thanks, I'll stick around. Yes, thanks zinzan8, I'm currently pursuing the goal of generally doing sub-20s solves. I only completed the process of learning the full set of CFOP algs recently, over the summer, a task that took me about a year to complete. That helps considerably with solve times, allowing me to focus on refining my F2L and cross solves and my lookahead. And having done that I can say with confidence that I'm a speedcuber... not sure how specifically it's defined but to me that was the key step. How far along are you in the solving journey as far as method is concerned? I don't personally know anyone who is faster than myself, but I have a nephew I taught a bit and encouraged to do so, who is learning the full CFOP and he will almost certainly surpass me before long. He's schoolaged so he can pull off the "certifiable genius" effect in his solves, which are just past sub-60s currently.
However, I'm currently "laying off" on my cubing somewhat, treating it as more of an aside, because I've already achieved my personal goals in the matter and it's a path of diminishing returns.
Thought I'd check out the solving community a bit since I hadn't done that yet. Every now and then I'd bump into a speedcuber in a mall or on public transit who'd see me solving and we'd have an enthusiastic chat. Only one of whom was in the 20s range. He had a backpack full of cubes and said he competed sometimes.


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## One Wheel (Sep 15, 2020)

StanMan said:


> How far along are you in the solving journey as far as method is concerned?



I use intuitive f2l, 1.7 look OLL, and full PLL with a few alternate algs. I really want to get better at blind solving, and have all the theoretical knowledge to solve everything at least up to 5x5 blindfolded, but my 3BLD success rate is between 10-20%, depending on the day, and I've only gotten a few 4BLD successes. Mostly I solve big cubes, especially 6x6.


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## StanMan (Sep 15, 2020)

Blindfolded, hey. That's quite the challenge. It involves its own set of algs, doesn't it. I've always wondered if anyone does 3x3 using CFOP blindfolded, kind of with "photographic memory".


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## One Wheel (Sep 15, 2020)

StanMan said:


> Blindfolded, hey. That's quite the challenge. It involves its own set of algs, doesn't it. I've always wondered if anyone does 3x3 using CFOP blindfolded, kind of with "photographic memory".


It's been done, but it's much harder. The basic beginner's "OP" method just uses PLL algorithms with setup moves, and it's really not that hard to learn. M2 is worth learning for edges, though.


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## pglewis (Sep 15, 2020)

The over-forty contingent (I'm 52) is obviously much smaller than the youth contingent in this hobby but it has become increasingly active in the past year or two. 

As far as what qualifies one as a "speedsolver", the only requirement to me is that someone is regularly timing their solves with the goal of getting faster vs. a casual solver who could care less about their times or improving their method. Neither is more or less valid to me, this is a hobby and we do it to have fun, it's all about what you enjoy. 



StanMan said:


> Blindfolded, hey. That's quite the challenge. It involves its own set of algs, doesn't it. I've always wondered if anyone does 3x3 using CFOP blindfolded, kind of with "photographic memory".



This thread has become a lot less active since the inception of the "Senior Cubers Worldwide" group on Facebook but it used to be relatively heavy with blindfold discussion. I had no interest in blindfold solving when I first jumped in here but the conversation eventually stoked enough interest for me to tackle it. Even though I haven't done a blind solve in AGES I still consider two of my biggest accomplishments in this hobby to be my first successful 3-bld solve and my one and only official 3-bld success at a competition.


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## openseas (Sep 15, 2020)

One Wheel said:


> It's been done, but it's much harder. The basic beginner's "OP" method just uses PLL algorithms with setup moves, and it's really not that hard to learn. M2 is worth learning for edges, though.



I guess what @StanMan is referring to is solving using entirely CFOP blindfolded. It is not just eidetic memory but more about the interaction of your move & outcome, so, not impossible but it will take much longer. I know there are several folks who did entirely using CFOP but times were more than 10 minutes, I believe (somebody can correct me).

I've used to post here a lot about BLD progress but as @pglewis said, becoming more active in FB group.


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## Jason Green (Sep 18, 2020)

openseas said:


> I guess what @StanMan is referring to is solving using entirely CFOP blindfolded. It is not just eidetic memory but more about the interaction of your move & outcome, so, not impossible but it will take much longer. I know there are several folks who did entirely using CFOP but times were more than 10 minutes, I believe (somebody can correct me).
> 
> I've used to post here a lot about BLD progress but as @pglewis said, becoming more active in FB group.


My first and second blind attempts were successes, the only two I've had. Third attempt I only had 3 minutes left and was averaging about 6 so I solved only corners successfully.


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## BigDazUK (Oct 6, 2020)

Hi all, I'm 44 from the UK. I've been on this forum nearly a couple of weeks and I've just stumbled on this old folk club 
11 days ago I couldn't solve the cube. I'm now solving around 1:30-1:40 with my fastest at 1:13 (due to some luck).
My initial goal was under a minute, now I feel I can go much faster pretty soon.


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## SenorJuan (Oct 6, 2020)

Welcome from another old UK guy. Just keep practicing, the times will fall, it's perfectly possible to get below 40 seconds with basic methods and unsophisticated turning. Then you'll need to think more about technique and methods, and usually this means learning a fair number of algorithms, but that's all part of the challenge.


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## muchacho (Nov 17, 2020)

After a few months of 0 practice a few weeks later I'm now getting closer to my best times at OH (which is the basically the only event I practice), still averaging around 25 seconds, but just managed to get a PB single.

1. 13.68 F2 L U2 L2 F2 L2 D B2 F2 R2 D U B' D2 U2 R2 U' L B L

I tried to reconstruct it, but no luck.
z x'
U' Uw F U M U M' U2 L U' Lw z2 // FB


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## narusite (Nov 19, 2020)

Hi guys, I hope you are all doing well.
With remote working I’ve been able to cube a little more 
Actually, I’ve been able to do longer 3x3x3 sessions. I’ve also decided to keep only 1 session in cstimer in order to see ao100 (because there is currently no way to do one session with a hundred solves in a row).
For the moment, my best ao100 is 31.5. But I’ve more and more sub-30 ao12, less over-40 solves, less CMLL errors, and sub-25 are not so scarced.
I’ve still a lot of training to do, and I know I should do more slow solves, but I feel that my sub-30 ao100 goal is near, and that makes me happy.
I can often plan FB+DR and do reconstruction. So yeah me \o/
Here is my latest sub-20.


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## muchacho (Nov 19, 2020)

You are doing good, it's rare when I can plan FB.


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## narusite (Dec 14, 2020)

I’ve done it:
29.95 ao100
I’ll officially call myself sub-30


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## pglewis (Jan 4, 2021)

My 3x3 Ao5 PB was set back in 2019 with a 18.23. That was a crazy fast flurry of solves for me at the time and has stood for a while, all my other 3x3 PBs have been set in the past six months. I've been on an uptick again the past couple weeks though and I felt this one coming, finally crushed it with a mid 17.


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## One Wheel (Jan 9, 2021)

I'm wondering if anybody has any small suggestions: I picked up a FTO, I really want to solve it once without a tutorial, but every move just moves so many pieces I can't figure out basic comms. I can build one face, but I'm stuck there and I suspect that may not be a helpful strategy anyway. Once I either figure it out once or get entirely fed up I'll look up a proper method.


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## SenorJuan (Jan 9, 2021)

Rather like suggesting the best intuitive way to solve the 3x3x3 is to solve the corners then the edges ,,, I think something like 'solve all the edges' then solve all the 'whatever they're called pieces' etc etc, rather than face-by-face, is the best strategy for this puzzle. ( I don't have one, only the different octahedron-shaped puzzle that's a 3x3x3 shapemod. )


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## Mike Hughey (Jan 9, 2021)

I agree with SenorJuan. Best way is to solve one piece type at a time; that's how I did it. Comms were easy to find for corners, but I just tried random sequences to find isolated piece movers for the other types, and I eventually found a way to do it that was horribly inefficient.

Once I got it, I learned a real method from a video and realized this was probably the worst self-created method for solving a puzzle I've ever done! At least it didn't have any 80 move sequences, like the one I used to solve parity when I figured out square-1 on my own.


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## One Wheel (Jan 9, 2021)

SenorJuan said:


> Rather like suggesting the best intuitive way to solve the 3x3x3 is to solve the corners then the edges ,,, I think something like 'solve all the edges' then solve all the 'whatever they're called pieces' etc etc, rather than face-by-face, is the best strategy for this puzzle. ( I don't have one, only the different octahedron-shaped puzzle that's a 3x3x3 shapemod. )


I think you're probably right. I'm just having trouble figuring out how to isolate particularly the single-color center triangles for commutators. Every face turn moves 3 corners, 3 edges, and 9 centers on 4 different faces.


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## muchacho (Jan 15, 2021)

3x3 Ao100 PB, 16.74. Previous was from May of 2018, and only 0.06 seconds slower, so not much improvement, but I'm quite happy, 2 months ago I was averaging more than 18 seconds.



Spoiler



Generated By csTimer on 2021-01-15
avg of 100: 16.74

Time List:
1. 16.60 U' F2 U' R2 U' L2 D' R2 D B2 F2 R D L R F R2 D' F U
2. 18.45 L B L2 U' L2 U F2 U' F2 L2 D L2 U' L2 B' U2 F2 L' U' R' F
3. 17.51 U' R2 B L U2 R2 D' B2 R2 F2 B2 U2 L' F2 L F2 R U
4. 15.51 R B2 D L2 B2 L2 U' R2 D F2 D U F R' D' R' F' D B' L2
5. 14.86 B' L2 F U2 F D2 L2 R2 B' L2 U' B' D' U2 F2 R' B D2 U' R'
6. 16.79 U2 F2 R2 U2 L2 B U2 B' F2 D2 B' R D' U2 B2 L B' U' L R D
7. 15.72 U2 L' U2 F2 D2 L' F2 U2 L' R2 F2 U L F L2 F L' D B' L'
8. 17.36 U' B D R' L' D F L' F U2 B2 L2 F' U2 L2 F' U2 F L2 B U
9. 15.60 B L2 B2 U' L' B D B2 U2 B' D2 B L2 B' R2 U2 F2 L2
10. 16.80 B U2 F' L2 F' L2 D2 B L2 R2 B2 U' R2 D' R B U2 R' B' L
11. 14.51 F2 U B2 D F' R D' B U2 B' U2 F' D2 B R2 D2 L2 F' L F'
12. 15.16 D L2 B2 U2 L2 D R2 U' B2 D2 B2 U2 L' F L R' U' L' F' L U
13. (12.26) L F' R' L2 U2 L B' U L U' L2 F2 D2 B2 D' R2 B2 R2 F2 D'
14. (27.75) U2 F2 R2 U2 R' F2 R U2 R' D2 R B2 D B2 U' F' D' F2 D2 L F
15. 16.88 R' L' D B D2 L D L' U L2 F R2 B2 R2 D2 F L2 B' U2 B2
16. 18.71 D2 B2 D2 B' L2 U2 R2 U2 B' F2 R U2 R' B' L U' F2 L' B'
17. 13.95 D2 F2 R2 U' R2 B2 U2 F2 U R2 D L' B' L D' B F D' F' L2
18. 17.48 L D2 U2 L' B2 D2 U2 R B2 L2 D B2 R2 F D L2 F2 D' B
19. 17.93 R2 B' L2 D2 F' D2 R2 B' F2 U2 B2 R' U' R2 F R2 F2 L D' U' F
20. (21.06) B2 U' F2 D2 L2 F2 R2 B2 D' B2 U' B R F U L' R2 U B2 U' L'
21. 19.15 F' R F' L D' R F' L2 F2 U2 R2 D2 F U2 B' U2 B U L
22. 15.84 U D2 F2 L2 U2 B' D2 F' R2 U2 F' U2 F' R U2 L' B2 F' D B R2
23. 15.28 D' B' L2 U2 B2 R' D2 F2 R D2 R' B2 R2 D L' R2 B2 D L2 D
24. 14.54 D2 B' L2 B' L2 B2 U2 R2 F' L2 R2 F R D L2 B' D B L' D2 F
25. (29.08) U' L' F2 D2 R2 B2 L2 D R2 D2 U B L B' R2 F D B' U'
26. 17.03 B R2 B2 L R2 D2 R D2 R' F2 D2 B2 U B D' B2 U' R' B L D
27. 18.41 D2 R' F D' B' D2 B' D2 F2 R' D2 R2 U2 B2 R' F2 D2 R' F D
28. 16.38 B D2 L2 D L' U D B L2 U2 F U2 F2 U2 R2 L2 B' U2 L' B
29. 16.24 R U2 B2 D' B2 R2 U2 R2 U' B2 L2 U L F D F D2 B2 F2 L2
30. 18.11 F L2 D' B2 U' L D' R L' B U2 R2 F R2 D2 B2 U2 L2 B' D2 B'
31. 14.62 R' F2 R2 B2 L2 U2 L2 F' D2 F2 L2 D' L' R B L U2 L2 F
32. 20.66 L2 D L2 D2 U F2 D' R2 U B' R' F' R F D' B' F' U2 R2
33. 14.87 B2 R2 B2 U' F2 U L2 U L2 F2 U2 B2 F' R' D B' L2 U R B2 F
34. 16.53 F2 B U2 R' L2 F U F' D2 F' D2 B D2 B' L2 B' U2 F2 U2 D'
35. 14.50 R' U2 B' F2 L2 F R2 F' U2 L2 D2 U2 R' D L2 R2 F R B' L' U
36. 16.35 L D R' L2 U2 F2 L2 F L2 B' L2 R2 D2 B' U B' L2 D F' U2 B2
37. 15.58 U R' B' D' F2 D F' R' U' R2 L2 B2 L2 U D' L2 D' L2 F2 R' D'
38. 18.68 F L F L' B' L F D R2 L2 D L2 U' B2 U2 R2 L2 U' L D2
39. 15.63 U D L B' U2 R' B U' L' F L2 D2 B' R2 B R2 L2 D2 F2 R2
40. 16.64 F2 U2 F' U2 B' U2 F D2 B' L2 F D' R' B' F2 R' U' F' U2 R' U2
41. 18.33 B' U R2 B R' F U F B2 R2 U2 F2 U2 B D2 R2 B' R2 F2 R' F2
42. 15.83 U2 F2 D2 B' U F L R2 D' B2 D' F2 D' B2 D R2 F'
43. 15.15 D' F' R D2 L2 U B2 L2 B2 F2 U B2 R2 U' B' L D2 F2 D' R U
44. 17.05 L' U' D F B2 U2 D2 R' D2 R2 D2 L2 F L2 F L2 U2 L2
45. 19.76 D2 B2 U B L' U R2 B U F2 R2 U2 R B2 D2 F2 L' U2 R' L2
46. (21.32) D' U2 B2 L' F2 R U2 L D2 L' D2 R2 D B L' D2 B2 R2 D' B U
47. 19.27 R' F2 D' L' B L2 U' L2 F2 R U2 F2 D2 R' U2 D2 L' U2 D' B
48. 16.12 D' F2 U B2 U2 R2 D U2 R2 F2 L2 F U B2 L B2 R' F' D' L
49. 17.20 F' L2 B2 D2 R2 B U2 B' R2 B2 D2 R2 L' B2 D' U2 R' U' R B2 R'
50. 16.26 L R2 U2 B2 D2 F2 R2 U B2 L2 D L2 U2 B' D L D U' B2 L' F
51. 17.89 B' U R' F' D2 B' U' L2 F' B2 L2 U' D' F2 D L2 U F2 L2 B2 U
52. (12.44) B L' F R' L' U' B D' L U2 D2 R2 B2 R' B2 D2 R F2 L2 D2
53. 20.41 D2 L2 U2 F R2 F' D2 B2 U2 L2 D2 R D U B' R D' B2 R' F R
54. 13.36 L F' D F2 D2 B2 D R2 U R2 D F2 U F2 R' B R U2 B' U2
55. 19.60 R' F2 R2 F2 L2 D B2 R2 U2 F2 U2 F2 R' F' U R D' R B2 R2 F'
56. 15.91 D2 L' B2 D2 U2 L U2 B2 R' B2 R D2 F U' F U' F R F2 L'
57. 18.55 D2 L2 F2 D F2 U' L2 D L2 F2 R2 B' U2 R' U L' F D2 B' D'
58. 17.36 B R' F B2 R2 F2 U L2 B2 U2 F2 D' L U2 F R2 U F' L
59. 15.60 B2 U2 R2 U2 L2 R2 B' D2 B' U2 L2 F' R D' B' L' F2 R2 F2 D' U'
60. (12.91) R' L2 F2 L2 D2 R2 F L2 F2 D2 B' F2 U R U R D U' F'
61. 15.95 R B' U' L B2 R L' D2 F U' L2 U R2 D2 F2 D2 B2 L2 U B2
62. 20.22 B2 D' L F' D2 B' U L2 U2 R F2 L' D2 F2 U2 F2 L F' L
63. 13.47 L' U' R2 B U2 F2 R2 U2 L2 B L2 B' F2 D U' B' D' R2 U' R'
64. (28.07) B2 L2 D' R2 U' R2 B2 R2 D U2 B D R' F L2 B F' L U' R2
65. 15.64 R' D' F2 R2 U B2 L2 D U B2 L2 D2 F D2 U' L2 U2 B R F'
66. 20.80 D2 B' U2 L2 F D2 L2 B2 R2 F U2 R2 L' F2 U' R2 D2 B' F2 U F2
67. 16.74 B U2 L2 F U2 B2 R2 U2 L2 U2 B2 F' D U R' B' R2 D2 F' U2 F2
68. (12.86) F' B2 D2 B' D' R F' B' U2 F2 L2 F2 U R2 L2 D' L2 U' L
69. 15.43 B2 U' L' F' D B2 L' B D2 B2 U2 L U2 R2 D2 F2 R' D2 F2 R' F
70. 15.50 U L2 U R2 U' R2 U' R2 B2 L2 B' D2 U L B D' L2 D' R'
71. 16.11 L' U D2 B' D' L F' L' F R2 U' F2 U2 F2 D L2 D L2 U' B2
72. 14.63 F2 L2 B2 U R2 U' R2 D' F2 D' F2 B' D L F2 R U' F D L' B
73. 14.63 D' L' D R F2 L' B' L' D2 R' U2 L' F2 B2 R F2 R2
74. 17.28 R2 B R' D2 R B2 L' B2 D2 R' F2 R' U2 R D' R' B' D R U' L'
75. 17.60 L U' B2 U2 L R2 D2 R2 B2 R' B2 D2 U2 B F' D L2 U F' D2
76. 15.09 D2 R' D2 U2 B2 L' B2 D2 B2 L' F' D' B' R' B2 R2 U L' F
77. 19.25+ L' R' D2 B2 R B2 U2 F2 R' D2 L B2 D F' L F' D' F U2 R U'
78. 15.64 R' F' U' F2 L' D' L F B2 D2 R2 B2 R' B2 R D2 F2 R' F2 B
79. 19.71 L' U L U2 L2 F2 R2 F2 U2 B2 L U2 B' R' U B D' R B'
80. 14.76 B' D' L U' L D2 R' D2 B' L2 F2 D R2 U' B2 D2 B2 R2 B2 D
81. 20.70 U' F D2 B U2 L2 R2 B' L2 F D2 F D L' F' D2 U R' B2
82. 16.52 B2 D L' B U R2 U' B U R2 B2 L2 D2 F2 B2 R2 U R2
83. 19.42 D' B' D2 F L2 B' U2 F' U2 B' D2 F L2 U F R' F2 D2 U' B
84. 17.32 U2 L R2 D2 R' F2 R F2 R' U2 R' F L F2 L2 D2 U R U
85. 17.01 D2 F' R2 B2 D2 F R2 F U2 R2 L F' D2 B' D L' R' B2 D' F'
86. 15.18 L B' U D2 R' F' R L2 F2 U F2 R2 U2 B2 D' R2 F2 B2 R
87. 20.60 U2 L D' R' B U' L F' D L2 F' L2 F L2 F2 L2 B' U2 F' U2 B2
88. 18.34 R B' F2 L2 D2 F2 R2 U2 B L2 F U2 L' D2 B' D' R2 F U' R' B
89. (12.20) F2 L B2 L2 B' U2 B' D2 U2 F2 D2 R2 U' R2 D R2 B U' R'
90. 15.77 R2 D2 F2 R U2 B2 L' D2 R' B2 R2 F L2 B' D U' B' L2 U' F'
91. 17.85 U' F R B2 U2 B2 U2 R' U2 B2 R' D2 L B2 D R' F2 D R2 D L'
92. 13.17 U2 R D R2 U2 L2 B2 U L2 D' R2 D2 U' R2 F' U B2 R' F2 D2 F
93. 14.20 F R F2 L2 F2 D L2 F2 D2 B2 R2 U L D B' R D' B' L
94. 19.31 B U R2 B R2 B' L2 F U2 F L2 D2 B2 D' L U R D2 F L
95. 16.40 L2 F2 U2 L' F2 D2 L F2 R' U2 L' D2 F' L B' R' D' F2 U' L B
96. 17.69 B D2 F2 U' R2 B2 D' R2 U2 F2 L2 R2 D' L' D R' B' R2 D F' D'
97. 15.57 B' R F R' L' D' L' U' F R U2 F2 D2 B2 L B2 U2 L U2 D2 L2
98. 15.58 U' B2 D2 B2 R2 D' F2 U' B2 D' B2 F2 L' F U2 R D2 U' F' L'
99. 13.63 R' B U' B' U L D R' B' U2 R2 U' D L2 F2 U' L2 B2
100. 15.70 R F2 U' L2 R2 U B2 U F2 L2 B2 F' D L R2 B2 F D' U' F2


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## EngiNerdBrian (Jan 15, 2021)

Anyone in the older crowd get tension or stiffness in their fingers when speed solving on a regular basis? I’ve had some tendinitis in my pointer finger since a few years ago that developed when I was doing a lot computer modeling and clicking my mouse 5,000+ times a day. 

Cubing sometimes aggregates this and causes stress in my fingers. Anyone else have this issue? Any good solutions/stretches/remedies?


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## David Zemdegs (Jan 16, 2021)

My first ever PLL skip in a comp this morning. Trouble was that it took me a few seconds to realise it. I couldn't believe what I saw!


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## abunickabhi (Jan 16, 2021)

David Zemdegs said:


> My first ever PLL skip in a comp this morning. Trouble was that it took me a few seconds to realise it. I couldn't believe what I saw!


Wow congrats.

I am unable to view the result as WCA Live is down currently.
https://www.worldcubeassociation.or...eTwinSaturday2021#15426-live-results-wca-live


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## One Wheel (Jan 17, 2021)

David Zemdegs said:


> My first ever PLL skip in a comp this morning. Trouble was that it took me a few seconds to realise it. I couldn't believe what I saw!


I think I've gotten 2 PLL skips in competitions, the only problem is they were actually both J-perms. The other day I was doing some idle untimed solves with hand scrambles, and I think I got 5 PLL skips including 2 consecutive ones.


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## Scriv58 (Jan 17, 2021)

EngiNerdBrian said:


> Anyone in the older crowd get tension or stiffness in their fingers when speed solving on a regular basis? I’ve had some tendinitis in my pointer finger since a few years ago that developed when I was doing a lot computer modeling and clicking my mouse 5,000+ times a day.
> 
> Cubing sometimes aggregates this and causes stress in my fingers. Anyone else have this issue? Any good solutions/stretches/remedies?



Hello Jeff here in not-so-balmy southern Illinois, having just joined the forum 3 weeks ago after a year of lurking. Before learning to solve the cube in nov. 2019, I was a professional tattooer for 22 years, as well as a long time acoustic guitar player (medium strings!) so I know a bit about overusing the hands. I no longer am a tattooer, but guitar and cube and being 62 can still take their toll.
The simplest routine for me is to stretch the hands after 20 minutes or so into a session, in the opposite direction of all the gripping- fingers fanned out, arms outstretched long easy breaths wrist rotations.

For at least 12 years I have been using this at least twice a week





Amazon.com : Absorbine Liniment Gel (12 oz) : Horse Liniments : Sports & Outdoors


Amazon.com : Absorbine Liniment Gel (12 oz) : Horse Liniments : Sports & Outdoors



www.amazon.com




I start by rinsing my hands in warm water, drying them then working a glob into every area of my hands and wrist til it starts getting tacky, then another glob, repeating until still a little slippery. I then don two pair of nitrile gloves (latex allergy) and retire to the couch for 45 minutes of tv, occasionally working the gloved gel into knuckles, palms, etc. I remove the gloves after 45 minutes, rinse them under warm water, then soap the stuff off. A home made regimen that works well for me. There are of course many balms available, this one being my own preference.

I also take one or two of these daily, the only pill I take, for I am not (yet) on any prescription medications whatsoever- but one may want to check further if they are on a prescription regimen for health maladies.


https://www.amazon.com/Doctors-Best-Curcumin-Turmeric-BioPerine/dp/B001J9K5PG/ref=sr_1_5?dchild=1&keywords=doctors+best+high+absorption+curcumin+1000mg&qid=1610907630&sr=8-5



I also use one of these daily, along with a regular garden variety spring hand gripper


https://www.amazon.com/TheraBand-Tendonitis-Strength-Resistance-Tendinitis/dp/B000BPV3GO/ref=pd_bxgy_img_2/140-6353893-0308856?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B000BPV3GO&pd_rd_r=31dbb463-d314-4e98-badc-b81bce2073c1&pd_rd_w=U7oIz&pd_rd_wg=dReIj&pf_rd_p=f325d01c-4658-4593-be83-3e12ca663f0e&pf_rd_r=GYNE9VH4WQCXJDQNVZX1&psc=1&refRID=GYNE9VH4WQCXJDQNVZX1



Hope this helps, it works well for me... Love, Peace, and Speedcube grease, the scriv


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## openseas (Jan 17, 2021)

David Zemdegs said:


> My first ever PLL skip in a comp this morning. Trouble was that it took me a few seconds to realise it. I couldn't believe what I saw!



Congrats! Also envy you guys competing at real comps!



One Wheel said:


> I think I've gotten 2 PLL skips in competitions, the only problem is they were actually both J-perms. The other day I was doing some idle untimed solves with hand scrambles, and I think I got 5 PLL skips including 2 consecutive ones.



I wasted several (total 3?) PLL skips in comm - all of them were garbage solves anyway. But my only OLL skip was really good, my current official PB single of 16.84.


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## EngiNerdBrian (Jan 17, 2021)

@Scriv58 thanks for all the links! I’ll look into all of it.


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## One Wheel (Jan 19, 2021)

This one's been a long time coming:

Generated By csTimer on 2021-01-19 (solving from 2021-01-19 08:27:21 to 2021-01-19 08:31:12)
*avg of 5: 19.85*

Time List:
1. 20.00 @2021-01-19 08:27:21 
2. 19.88 @2021-01-19 08:28:14 
3. 19.68 @2021-01-19 08:29:03 
4. (22.84) @2021-01-19 08:30:26 
5. (19.47) @2021-01-19 08:31:12

Previous best was 20.00 from 6/12/20


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## EngiNerdBrian (Jan 19, 2021)

One Wheel said:


> This one's been a long time coming:
> 
> Generated By csTimer on 2021-01-19 (solving from 2021-01-19 08:27:21 to 2021-01-19 08:31:12)
> *avg of 5: 19.85*
> ...


Congrats! That’s a great milestone to hit!


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## pglewis (Jan 19, 2021)

One Wheel said:


> This one's been a long time coming:
> 
> Generated By csTimer on 2021-01-19 (solving from 2021-01-19 08:27:21 to 2021-01-19 08:31:12)
> *avg of 5: 19.85*
> ...



Congratulations! That was evil of the universe to have you stuck at :20 flat lol


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## David Zemdegs (Jan 20, 2021)

openseas said:


> Congrats! Also envy you guys competing at real comps!


Looking at the competitions page its a bit surreal seeing mainly Australian comps. A big one this weekend in my home town. No air-con though and its 40C on Sunday.


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## Scriv58 (Jan 20, 2021)

I started a thread about this but it sank like a stone, so I thought I would mention it here. I feel confident that many of the older members who contribute to this particular thread were raised to search for buried treasure between the covers of books. Erno Rubik, the cube’s creator, finally released a memoir last fall entitled “Cubed: the puzzle of us all”. I just finished a second reading and it truly is a wonderful book, because it has its twists and turns (rimshot). Wondering if anyone else here has given it a read?


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## openseas (Jan 20, 2021)

One Wheel said:


> This one's been a long time coming:
> 
> Generated By csTimer on 2021-01-19 (solving from 2021-01-19 08:27:21 to 2021-01-19 08:31:12)
> *avg of 5: 19.85*
> ...


Wow, awesome!


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## jdh3000 (Jan 20, 2021)

Scriv58 said:


> I started a thread about this but it sank like a stone, so I thought I would mention it here. I feel confident that many of the older members who contribute to this particular thread were raised to search for buried treasure between the covers of books. Erno Rubik, the cube’s creator, finally released a memoir last fall entitled “Cubed: the puzzle of us all”. I just finished a second reading and it truly is a wonderful book, because it has its twists and turns (rimshot). Wondering if anyone else here has given it a read?



I got my 1st cube in'81 at age 14, and immediately got the only book I could find which was The Simple Solution to Rubik's Cube by James G. Nourse.

The years that followed you could find all kinds of books about it. 

Then when the craze wore off and Rubik's brand started including the beginner's solution with the cube, the books died off. 

Companies started making better and faster cubes and speedcubing became the interest of the new generation of cubers. Speedcubing was a thing before that but few wanted to jump on board with the quality of cubes available, and I can't say I blame them. 

Next, everything that could be found was available on the internet. 

It was a different world back in the early days. Everyone wanted one, they'd get it and solve that one side and say "I did it!" If you completely solved it while they weren't looking they'd say you took the stickers off, and if you solved it in front of them they said "you cheated, it's a trick."

I'm glad all the fad wore off and really the main enthusiasts these days are speed solvers. 

I watched some of the old commercials from back then...how funny!


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## muchacho (Jan 27, 2021)

Ao100 OH PB: 22.80
Previous best was 23.15 from May of last year.

(and 22.19 Ao50)

Some days I find it difficult to average 24 seconds, but others (very few) I feel great. Last week I had a good day with a 22.6 Ao50 but couldn't keep it up, I find it very hard to do long sessions especially at OH, in fact this best Ao100 includes 15 solves for two days ago, the best 100 solves from today are like 23.0x.



Spoiler: avg of 100: 22.80



Generated By csTimer on 2021-01-27
avg of 100: 22.80

Time List:
1. 23.89 U' F' R2 F D2 B F' D2 L2 F' D' F' L F2 D' U' F2 R' B
2. 22.47 U B' D2 F' U2 R2 U2 L2 B D2 B' D' F' R' F L U' B D' L
3. 21.47 U B2 R2 U' L F B' U' F L2 U' L2 U D2 L2 B2 D L2 F2
4. 18.60 B2 U' R2 F2 D L2 F2 D B2 D2 L D2 F' D2 F2 D L F2 R B' L
5. 24.72 R' B R2 D' R2 D2 L2 D B2 D' L2 U R2 U' B' R' U2 B' F R' F'
6. (30.60) L' R2 D2 B L2 U2 B F2 D2 F' R' D2 F2 L2 B D' B L
7. 27.17 D' B D2 U B2 D2 R2 F2 L2 U B2 D2 F' U' B2 U2 F R' D' L'
8. 22.22 U' L' B' L2 U2 F2 D2 F L2 R2 D2 R2 B D' F U B D L2 R2
9. 28.09 B' R2 L F2 U' R' U F' U2 B2 U2 F' L2 U2 R2 B L2 B'
10. 24.68 F2 R2 U' F2 L2 B2 D2 R2 D2 F2 U B2 L' B' R U2 F' U' L' U' F
11. 22.64 U' F2 L2 F2 U F2 D L2 D2 B2 R2 B' D' R' B U' F' D' R' B2 U'
12. 26.48 U F2 D' F2 R2 F2 U2 B2 D B2 U2 L2 F U F R2 U' L' F' R F2
13. 18.90 F2 R L F' D' F' R2 F' D2 L' B2 U2 L2 B2 L' U2 F2 B2 R' D2
14. 25.70 F' R' D2 L2 D2 R2 F2 L2 B' D2 R2 B' L2 D' R D L R2 B U2
15. 25.84 D' F2 B' D L2 F2 L B D' B L2 F R2 B D2 B2 R2 L2 U2 F' L2
16. 19.27 F' L2 U2 R F2 U2 B2 U2 L2 B2 R' B' U' F' L D U L'
17. (28.76) L2 D2 R2 F2 R2 F2 D' B2 F2 U' F U' R2 D2 B R' B2 L B2
18. 23.40 B2 U' B2 D' B2 U F2 D L2 U R2 B2 R' B U2 F D2 R2 U F2 D
19. 18.84 R2 F2 U2 B' L2 F' L2 R2 F L2 F' D' B' L2 B D2 R' B' F L2
20. 23.59 D R2 F2 U L2 R2 D F2 D U' L' B U B' U B2 U2 F2 L'
21. 22.99 D L' U2 R2 U2 D' F' D' F2 R' D2 L' F2 D2 L' U2 D2 B2 U2 R2
22. 21.22 U' L2 D2 R2 B2 D2 B L2 B' R2 B2 R2 B2 D L' B' D' L D' R2 F
23. (17.28) F D' L2 D' R B' U R B2 U' R2 D' F2 D2 B2 R2 U R2 U R2
24. 23.00 L D F D2 B2 D' B U' F2 L2 U R2 F2 D' F2 U' L2 D2 R' B'
25. 27.77 B L2 B R2 U2 R2 D2 B' U2 R2 F' U L' R' B R2 D' F2 D' U'
26. 19.88 D2 L' F' R2 D' R F' B U' B2 U2 R2 U' L2 U2 R2 B2 U F2 U2
27. 24.95 F2 D' R' U2 F U2 F R2 B' R2 F2 D2 F R2 U B' L F2 L' D' R2
28. 19.23 B' U2 R2 F2 U2 F D2 F' L2 F' L2 U2 D B2 F R' B F' D' L2 U2
29. 20.92 R L2 D' B' D' L B2 L' F2 D' R2 U B2 U L2 F2 U' B2 L2
30. 20.32 U L2 B' D' L2 U F R' U R' B2 L F2 B2 D2 L D2 R
31. (30.40) U2 R L' U2 R2 U F R2 F2 L2 U D2 R2 U D2 R2 F' U'
32. 25.89 U2 L D L2 B' U2 F D2 F2 R2 U2 R2 F' L' F U B R2 B R
33. 25.73 U B2 L2 B R2 F' D2 R2 U2 R2 F' L' R F L' D B2 R' B2 L2
34. 23.72 D2 L2 F B2 U B2 U F' L' U' R2 D R2 L2 B2 U' R2 D' B2 L2
35. 24.83 L' B' D2 F2 R' B2 L B2 D2 B2 R2 B2 L' U2 B U L D2 R2 B2 U2
36. 25.92 D R B U B2 U L2 U B2 F2 U2 L2 F2 B U' F' R' F' U2 B'
37. 26.14 B2 R' L2 B2 L2 D2 L2 F2 U L2 U2 B2 L' B' R' F L R2 U'
38. 25.15 L F D' F2 B' D' F2 U2 F B2 L D2 R' D2 R' D2 L' U2 B2 L2
39. 25.75 F' L U2 R B2 R' U2 R F2 R' D2 R D2 U F2 R' D2 F' L' D2 U
40. 21.69 R2 F2 D F2 U R2 D2 R2 D' R2 D R' D' U L U R' F' U2 R
41. 19.61 D B2 D L' F D2 R' F2 D2 B' U2 R2 L2 B L2 B2 L2 U2 F U' F
42. 17.61 R2 D F2 L2 B2 L2 U R2 D B2 D2 R D2 R' B L2 F' R B L2 U2
43. 26.15 R L2 D L2 R2 B2 U' B2 R2 D' L2 D2 F' R2 U' F U2 L' R2 B2 D2
44. 23.09 B' D2 F' U' B2 D' B' D F R2 F2 R D2 R' F2 D2 R' B2 L B2 U2
45. 23.58 D' U2 R F2 L2 R B2 R' F2 U2 F2 L' B R U' R2 U2 R2 B U'
46. 17.62 R2 D2 F2 R2 F R2 U2 F2 D2 F2 L' D2 B D' L2 B L' F' L
47. 20.60 B' R2 U2 F' U2 L2 B U2 F' U2 F' L2 D' B' F' D2 R' B R2 B'
48. 22.80 D' B L F' U2 B L2 F R2 F2 U2 L2 D2 L2 U R B' U2 L B' D2
49. 21.37 F2 D2 U' R2 B2 D' B2 R2 B2 D L D' F L R' U F L2 R' B
50. (33.07) D' R B L F R F U' F' R2 B' D2 F U2 F' R2 B2 R2 U2 R
51. 22.10 B2 U2 R F2 D2 L' R2 F2 L2 B2 U2 F D L2 R' U' R U' B2 F2
52. 21.42 D' F2 D2 F B' U' L' F R' L2 D' B2 U' D2 L2 U R2 F2 R2 D2
53. 24.91 B U2 F2 U2 L2 F R2 D2 F D2 B2 F' D' R' U2 L' B D' L' F' R
54. (29.00) L2 F2 U2 B D2 L2 B' U2 L2 R' U2 F R' U B U B L
55. 24.88 F U R F' R2 L B R' U' F2 U2 R L2 B2 L' D2 L U2 B2 R U2
56. 19.20 L D2 L B2 R' F2 R F2 R2 D2 R2 D' L2 U' F' L2 B' U2 F2 L R'
57. 21.24 R' U2 R D2 U2 B2 D2 R U2 L' B D' L B2 R2 U F U' F2
58. 26.45 U2 B2 L2 U' F2 U L2 U2 R2 B2 D' F U R' U B F L2 R' D2
59. 20.78 L F R2 U R2 L' D' B2 R' B' U D2 B2 R2 U R2 L2 U2 B2 U' R2
60. (17.06) B' D2 F2 U2 B2 U' R2 D U F2 L' U' F' R2 U2 F2 L F D'
61. 25.79 F' R2 U R2 D' L2 B2 F2 D' R2 U' L2 R B2 R2 D2 B' U' F L2
62. 21.66 R2 F U2 B R2 F' D2 F2 R2 U2 L2 U2 D' B2 L F' R2 D2 U2 L D'
63. 18.65 F U' L2 D R2 F2 U F2 U L2 U R B2 U R D' B D' F
64. 20.82 F2 R F' L2 D2 F' U2 B R2 U2 L2 F' R2 D L2 B2 F' L R2 F'
65. 24.23 B2 L2 D2 R2 D2 U B2 D' F2 L2 B2 R2 B' D U L' D' F2 U' F2 R2
66. 22.36 F' R2 D2 U2 F' U2 L2 B L2 U2 L' D' F2 R2 D L F2 U2 B2
67. 22.28 U' B U2 R2 B' U2 F2 D2 R2 B2 U R B' U' R B D2 L
68. 24.95 B' R' F R2 L2 U D2 R' D F2 U R2 L2 D B2 R2 U F2 L2 F
69. 21.11 L' D2 L2 U' L2 U' R2 F2 R2 B2 U' L2 F2 L' U2 B' R2 D' R F2 R
70. 23.29 F' R2 D R2 F2 L2 D2 B2 U' R2 F2 U' F2 R D' F' U' F R' D' U2
71. 18.89 U' F2 R' B U' B2 U' B F2 L2 B2 U' B2 U' D2 L2 U' F'
72. 21.41 D B2 R2 F2 R B2 F2 R2 D2 R' D2 F2 U2 B' R2 D F2 D' L F' U
73. 20.66 D2 F2 U L2 R2 D' L2 U' B2 D' R2 D2 R U2 R2 B' U F' R' D F2
74. 24.04 B2 L2 D2 B2 D R2 B2 D' L2 U B2 R2 F' R U L U' B2 D' F2 R
75. 28.16 U2 D' R B2 L' U' F' U B2 U B2 L2 F2 D2 R2 D' F2 D2 L' B
76. 18.23 F R2 U B D2 F2 U L B R' D2 F2 B2 R F2 B2 U2 B2 D2 L
77. 18.01 L' F U2 L' F2 L' D2 F2 U2 R' D2 L2 D' B L B2 R F2 D2
78. (16.14) B2 L D' B2 R' F D R' D F2 U2 L2 F2 U F2 U' R2 U R2
79. 23.94 R' F2 L B2 R F2 D2 L F2 U2 R D2 U' R2 B' D L2 D L2 U' L2
80. 21.71 R2 U2 R F' L2 D' B D' B2 D' L2 U L2 B2 U2 F2 B2 R2 L U' R
81. 26.54 D R' U2 B' U B2 L F2 U2 B2 U' B2 U R2 U F2 R2 U' L
82. 19.73 R2 B2 R2 D2 B U2 B' F2 R2 U2 F2 D2 L D R2 B' U L D'
83. 27.01 D2 B2 F2 R' B2 R' D2 R2 B2 D2 B2 L U' B R' B' L2 D F' R B'
84. 26.14 U2 B' U2 R2 B R2 D2 F' D2 L2 D' L2 D' L U R' F' L' U2 R'
85. 17.67 U2 F' U R' F' B D B F2 D2 L D2 L' F2 R' F2 L2 D2 F2 U2
86. 26.00 B2 U2 B2 D' L2 U L2 D' F2 D L2 F' D B' L U2 R F' U2 R
87. 17.61 D F R2 D2 F2 L' F2 L' U2 B2 F2 R B2 L' F' R B' D' B U' F'
88. 24.78 R' D2 R' F2 D2 R D2 R' B2 U2 R' F' U R2 U B F U R B' D2
89. 21.21 R2 U R2 U' L2 D2 R2 B2 U2 B2 D2 L R U' F R D' L F'
90. 21.97 L2 D L2 B2 F2 D' F2 U2 B2 L2 U2 F' L' R2 U R' B2 U' B2 D' R
91. 23.37 R' F D2 F' R2 B' U2 B2 U2 F L2 D2 L2 R D' U L B' F L' D'
92. 24.72 L2 U2 F' D2 B' L2 F2 D2 L2 B' R2 U' B' D' R' F2 L' R' B F R
93. (17.56) L2 U2 L2 U F2 L2 U2 L2 D' B2 F2 R2 B U2 L' F' U' B' D F U
94. 25.79 R' B2 F2 R' F2 L2 U2 B2 R' F2 U2 R2 B U2 L' D L' R' B2 D F'
95. 22.16 L2 F2 L2 D' B2 L2 U' L2 U' L2 D B L' F' L' D' F2 R' F' D2
96. 24.84 L' F B U' D L' F' B' D' R2 F' U2 L2 F L2 F2 U2 F R2 U2
97. (17.43) F U B2 D' R2 D B2 U' B2 L2 U L2 U' B' U' F' L F' D2 R' F
98. 21.72 B2 D2 L2 F2 L2 R2 U L2 D B2 F L F2 U L B R2 B2 L'
99. 24.49 D F2 D B2 D' F2 D' B2 D F2 B' U' B D2 R' D F' R' B' D2
100. 19.99 L D' F2 L B D' F2 B L' D2 F U2 D2 L2 B D2 F' R2 U2


----------



## One Wheel (Jan 27, 2021)

Sub-4 Ao1000! 3:59.98 Ao1000, same solve finished a 3:32.14 PB Mo3. Another minute faster and I might be competitive for the bottom step of local 6x6 podiums.


----------



## Lid (Feb 1, 2021)

Still slow going here ...

Did a Sq1 avg of 100 over the last 2 days: *16.71*


Spoiler: Times & stats



number of times: 100/100
best time: 10.19
worst time: 20.51 

There was 37 solves with parity

best avg5: *13.94* (σ = 1.62)
best avg12: 15.24 (σ = 1.71)
best avg100: 16.71 (σ = 1.73)
session mean: 16.63

14.49, 19.55[p], 17.25, 19.60[p], 17.72[p], 17.17, 16.17, 13.39, 17.01[p], 12.91, 19.96[p], 14.62, 15.71, 15.00, 18.13[p], 18.70[p], 17.59, 17.37[p], 17.22, 14.34, 19.15[p], 17.32, 16.10[p], 19.37[p], 17.97[p], 19.44[p], 14.38, 17.38[p], 14.49, 16.55, 18.76[p], 12.47, 17.93[p], 17.80[p], 14.81, 16.16, 16.85, 19.37[p], 17.92[p], 16.18[p], 15.12, 14.56, 19.49[p], 17.54[p], 14.38, 18.16, 16.97, 16.53, 17.22, 15.45, 18.01[p], 16.69[p], 17.94[p], 13.95, 18.02[p], 16.80, 18.91, 16.24, 18.50[p], 14.75[p], 19.23, 15.49, 13.65, *15.13, 14.59, 16.50[p], 12.10, 11.34*, 15.42, 20.51[p], 18.64, 16.29, 19.26[p], 20.15, 19.52, 14.34, 18.38[p], 14.17, 18.06, 15.28, 15.66, 16.14[p], 16.78[p], 18.25, 18.91[p], 15.63, 15.05, 15.43, 18.24[p], 13.91, 18.57, 10.19, 17.63, 15.13, 12.98, 19.09, 19.33[p], 15.51, 17.14, 15.90


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## kbrune (Feb 26, 2021)

Hey all! Been few years since I've been on here. I remember the other day that someone around here used to maintain an over 40 ranking page. I wasn't on it since I was still a couple years shy of 40. Well now that I'm pushing 42 I figured I'd pop in and see if that list is still a thing lol
I tried poking around to find it but I don't remember where the access was for it. 

Hope you all have been well during the covid era!


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## Mike Hughey (Feb 26, 2021)

kbrune said:


> Hey all! Been few years since I've been on here. I remember the other day that someone around here used to maintain an over 40 ranking page. I wasn't on it since I was still a couple years shy of 40. Well now that I'm pushing 42 I figured I'd pop in and see if that list is still a thing lol
> I tried poking around to find it but I don't remember where the access was for it.
> 
> Hope you all have been well during the covid era!


The rankings are still here:






Senior Rankings


Senior Rankings



logiqx.github.io


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## Kaiju_cube (Feb 26, 2021)

40 and over equals a 'Senior'... seems harsh, lol. 

I always thought of 65 and up as Seniors. 

Guess in a world that has 6 year old speedcubers 40 seems old.


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## kbrune (Feb 26, 2021)

@Mike Hughey Thank you!


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## kbrune (Feb 26, 2021)

I'm not in the rankings anywhere. Is this because the result has to have been recorded once you're actually 40 at the time of the competition?


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## EngiNerdBrian (Feb 26, 2021)

Kaiju_cube said:


> 40 and over equals a 'Senior'... seems harsh, lol.
> 
> I always thought of 65 and up as Seniors.
> 
> Guess in a world that has 6 year old speedcubers 40 seems old.


Haha in a community dominated by the kiddos 40 is old! But I agree; it's a dagger cast to the heart a bit too soon.


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## Mike Hughey (Feb 26, 2021)

kbrune said:


> I'm not in the rankings anywhere. Is this because the result has to have been recorded once you're actually 40 at the time of the competition?


To be included, you need to provide your information. This can only be done opt-in because of privacy issues; all you need to do is fill out this form and you will be included the next time it is run:





Registration


Senior Rankings



logiqx.github.io





Also, you are right - the solves have to be done officially when you're over 40. If not, I don't think they count.


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## kbrune (Feb 26, 2021)

@Mike Hughey 
That makes sense. I was 38ish at the time so they wont count. Looks like I'll have to find a way to travel to china or Australia in order to get an official, over 40 result lol


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## Logiqx (Feb 26, 2021)

kbrune said:


> @Mike Hughey
> That makes sense. I was 38ish at the time so they wont count. Looks like I'll have to find a way to travel to china or Australia in order to get an official, over 40 result lol



Hi Ken. I don't frequent these forums often so I only spotted this by chance.

Any results that you achieve after the age of 40 will appear if / when you compete.

Regards, Mike


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## Jason Green (Feb 27, 2021)

Kaiju_cube said:


> 40 and over equals a 'Senior'... seems harsh, lol.
> 
> I always thought of 65 and up as Seniors.
> 
> Guess in a world that has 6 year old speedcubers 40 seems old.


For professional bowling 50 is considered senior. I think for cubing we have it right setting the line at 40.


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## openseas (Feb 28, 2021)

Jason Green said:


> For professional bowling 50 is considered senior. I think for cubing we have it right setting the line at 40.



I have a feeling that we may want to raise the bar and move the senior cut-off age to 50 soon, and again to 60 in ten years, just to be more exclusive ;-)

Joke aside, many cubers in their 20s,30s say that they feel old competing with 10s + most cubers become less active during or after college, so, even 30 sounds ok as senior.... but, 30s are too fast (their cubing records  So, 40 it is.


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## scrubizilla (Feb 28, 2021)

Yeah i bet its weird for a 30 year old chinese cuber sitting next to yiheng wang (whos 7) and getting 40 seconds solves as the little kid next to him gets a 5


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## Kaiju_cube (Mar 2, 2021)

openseas said:


> I have a feeling that we may want to raise the bar and move the senior cut-off age to 50 soon, and again to 60 in ten years, just to be more exclusive ;-)
> 
> Joke aside, many cubers in their 20s,30s say that they feel old competing with 10s +* most cubers become less active during or after college, so, even 30 sounds ok as senior*.... but, 30s are too fast (their cubing records  So, 40 it is.



yeah I'm in my 40's and after working all day, taking care of the kids, making dinner, etc. I'm lucky if I get an hour to cube late at night while watching TV. I usually line up and scramble a dozen cubes then solve them as I watch a movie.

(though I have a couple on my desk I use throughout the day, also)


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## One Wheel (Mar 17, 2021)

I just got a 3:03 6x6 single with inner wing parity. Sub-3 someday soon!


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## kbrune (Mar 31, 2021)

One Wheel said:


> I just got a 3:03 6x6 single with inner wing parity. Sub-3 someday soon!



Im curious what you think about this

My 3x3 times are better, 4x4 might be equal to yours but i'm thinking you would beat me alot more then half the time, Your 5x5 and 6x6 times are way better then mine. You smash me in 7x7.

What allows me to be faster at 3x3? Dexterity?


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## One Wheel (Mar 31, 2021)

kbrune said:


> Im curious what you think about this
> 
> My 3x3 times are better, 4x4 might be equal to yours but i'm thinking you would beat me alot more then half the time, Your 5x5 and 6x6 times are way better then mine. You smash me in 7x7.
> 
> What allows me to be faster at 3x3? Dexterity?


Probably just time spent: I don't practice 3x3 that much, and 6x6 has benefits for 7x7.

I have recorded solves, over the last 5 or 6 years:

3x3: 2,795 solves, 22:28:21.30 cumulative time.
4x4: 4,091 solves, 117:50:39.11 cumulative time.
5x5: 2,491 solves, 109:36:31.51 cumulative time
6x6: 2,983 solves, 247:03:33.74 cumulative time
7x7: 1,045 solves, 127:01:37.20 cumulative time.

Edit: forgot 2x2, as usual: 765 solves, 2:11:17.56 cumulative time.


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## kbrune (Mar 31, 2021)

@One Wheel 

That would make sense. I've definitely spent alot more time on 3x3. I'm sure I have 20k+ solves in my lifetime. 
1900 in just the last couple weeks. I've been trying to improve 5x5 but i'm still stuck around 2:20-2:40

What's your 5x5 method? anything that you learned over time that made a difference toward your average?


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## One Wheel (Mar 31, 2021)

kbrune said:


> @One Wheel
> What's your 5x5 method? anything that you learned over time that made a difference toward your average?


Just redux. 5x5 I solve edges down to the last one, and then do the standard Rw2 B2 parity alg (rotating to do U2 instead of F2 halfway through) if necessary before any 3x3 stage. 6x6 I do my cross opposite one of the colors on my mismatched edge if there is one. I don't know any fancy L2E cases. On 6x6 I will commonly pair up 2 or 3 edge pieces and not see the rest right away, so I put that edge on top or bottom and continue pairing other colors until I see the missing pieces. I do that on 5x5 too, but not as much.


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## One Wheel (Apr 12, 2021)

It's not a very good solve or a good video, but I recorded the 3000th solve in my CSTimer 6x6 session. I'll leave this here for future reference.


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## ep2 (Apr 26, 2021)

Fell out of practice for a while there, but bought a 15x15 (mainly to sit on the shelf), did it for the one and probably only time in, 4 hours 46mins. Could easily take half an hour off that I'd say, but had thought it'd take twice as long...


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## Kaiju_cube (Apr 27, 2021)

I've really been enjoying big cubes lately. I do 5,6,7,8 pretty much daily, then other days I do 10, 11 or 12. (and I want the MoYu 13x13 next). 

Keep trying to get back to studying F2L, OLL, and PLL with the 3x3 but then I see that big cube sitting on my desk calling my name. Lol

big cubes are a lot of fun because you can't solve it fast, it takes time so it's a bit more satisfying.


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## pjk (May 13, 2021)

Random question: would you guys like a separate sub-forum specifically for older cuber discussion? This thread is 1,000+ pages long and perhaps a sub-forum would be more useful. Let me know.


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## openseas (May 13, 2021)

pjk said:


> Random question: would you guys like a separate sub-forum specifically for older cuber discussion? This thread is 1,000+ pages long and perhaps a sub-forum would be more useful. Let me know.



It can be a good idea. (Is this a poll?)


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## Jason Green (May 13, 2021)

openseas said:


> It can be a good idea. (Is this a poll?)





pjk said:


> Random question: would you guys like a separate sub-forum specifically for older cuber discussion? This thread is 1,000+ pages long and perhaps a sub-forum would be more useful. Let me know.



Would you move this thread into the subforum? This thread doesn't get near the activity it used to, but I would like to keep it around. Also, if we have this thread bookmarked would that get linked to the new location?


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## Mike Hughey (May 13, 2021)

I kind of doubt it's a good idea because this thread has gotten lots less active. I don't think a subforum would get much use, to be honest. It seems like most of the people have moved on to Facebook. Which is a shame, because there's no way I'm moving to Facebook.


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## Jason Green (May 13, 2021)

Mike Hughey said:


> I kind of doubt it's a good idea because this thread has gotten lots less active. I don't think a subforum would get much use, to be honest. It seems like most of the people have moved on to Facebook. Which is a shame, because there's no way I'm moving to Facebook.


Yeah I'm on Facebook very little these days so I don't follow the group there much.


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## pjk (May 14, 2021)

Jason Green said:


> Would you move this thread into the subforum? This thread doesn't get near the activity it used to, but I would like to keep it around. Also, if we have this thread bookmarked would that get linked to the new location?





Mike Hughey said:


> I kind of doubt it's a good idea because this thread has gotten lots less active. I don't think a subforum would get much use, to be honest. It seems like most of the people have moved on to Facebook. Which is a shame, because there's no way I'm moving to Facebook.


The question is, if it was there, would people use it? Hard to say, but considering the activity here declining, you're probably right. I also much prefer a forum like this over Facebook or Reddit, but many others prefer Reddit, FB, or Discord. I'm not sure why. All we can do is keep building out a resourceful site here and implement feedback as we get it.


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## openseas (May 14, 2021)

Mike Hughey said:


> I kind of doubt it's a good idea because this thread has gotten lots less active. I don't think a subforum would get much use, to be honest. It seems like most of the people have moved on to Facebook. Which is a shame, because there's no way I'm moving to Facebook.



That can be one of cons... while sub-forum might make easy to find the focus / history of the topic. I'm ok either way, btw.


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## Kaiju_cube (May 16, 2021)

pjk said:


> The question is, if it was there, would people use it? Hard to say, but considering the activity here declining, you're probably right. I also much prefer a forum like this over Facebook or Reddit, but many others prefer Reddit, FB, or Discord. I'm not sure why. All we can do is keep building out a resourceful site here and implement feedback as we get it.



I hate Facebook and Reddit is a cesspool. I like this forum.


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## qwr (May 16, 2021)

Facebook is actively harmful to society


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## zslane (May 16, 2021)

Forums make ongoing discussions much easier to follow, and they stick around for a long time giving them enduring value. Reddit and Facebook are much more immediate, like real-time conversations, and if you aren't part of them when they happen, then they might as well have not even happened because they just sort of disappear into the digital aether.


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## pglewis (May 17, 2021)

qwr said:


> Facebook is actively harmful to society





zslane said:


> Forums make ongoing discussions much easier to follow, and they stick around for a long time giving them enduring value. Reddit and Facebook are much more immediate, like real-time conversations, and if you aren't part of them when they happen, then they might as well have not even happened because they just sort of disappear into the digital aether.



One positive aspect of FB for me in general is it's a single, non-email place to keep in touch with a lot of my old friends (and some new) that are spread across the globe. I keep up with my distant friends from the 90s a lot more today than I did 15 years ago. 

One positive of the Older Cubers FB group is it attracted a lot of over 40s that never visited this thread. The daily scrambles are fun, though that could be done anywhere. 

I totally agree that forums have clear advantages in some departments though. I still keep my eyes on this thread even though it may lay dormant for months at a time.


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## Jacck (Jun 8, 2021)

(double post here and in the 6x6x-blind ranking)
8x8x8 bld: 1:54:38.20 [1:06:15]
cube: Shengshou, 32th attempt


Spoiler: Video










I post it in this thread, because I'm 54 years old and this should be the highest age to have an 8bld-success - @Mike Hughey should have been 49 on his 8bld-success.


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## pglewis (Jun 9, 2021)

Jacck said:


> (double post here and in the 6x6x-blind ranking)
> 8x8x8 bld: 1:54:38.20 [1:06:15]
> cube: Shengshou, 32th attempt
> 
> I post it in this thread, because I'm 54 years old and this should be the highest age to have an 8bld-success - @Mike Hughey should have been 49 on his 8bld-success.



Bonus points for that cube cover, it fooled me!


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## vidcapper (Jun 9, 2021)

I'm 55, and my fingers are just not flexible enough to do much in way of finger tricks, which is why I tend to concentrate on big cubes, although having said that, about 1 in 15 of my 3x3 solves is now below 1m. 

Way back in the early 80s I did get a sub 1m on the dreaded Rubiks brand though.


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## Jacck (Jun 9, 2021)

pglewis said:


> Bonus points for that cube cover, it fooled me!


It was at first a (in my opinion absolutely appropriate) box to collect money for an 11x11x11 when I celebrated my 50th birthday


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## povlhp (Jun 9, 2021)

vidcapper said:


> I'm 55, and my fingers are just not flexible enough to do much in way of finger tricks, which is why I tend to concentrate on big cubes, although having said that, about 1 in 15 of my 3x3 solves is now below 1m.
> 
> Way back in the early 80s I did get a sub 1m on the dreaded Rubiks brand though.


I am 54. But getting faster all the time. Most solves under 50s. And new PB @ 30.xx today. 5s faster than old. Too few solves are fast / timed.


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## Dan the Beginner (Jun 26, 2021)

I have this idea, which I was afraid of mentioning in this forum before, but I will try to do it her without alarming all the others. It is about cubing for enjoyment, for exercise (brain and hands) and for relaxation, i.e. not just for ultimate speed. I believe that to the older people, cubing should be very good for all those reasons, as we need something easily affordable, not too hard physically, easily portable and accessible anywhere, to relax ourselves in the pathologist or GP's waiting rooms (dentist!), to prevent arthritis or just to kill time during lockdowns. This should be similar to line dancing, or contract bridge, except it is very appropriate now due to the restrictions preventing those other pastimes due to social distancing requirements. It can also be something that grandparents can share with their grandkids. I suspect there may be a big unexplored market, and it should be good for the cube makers to promote and explore this market, and also have designs that are better suited to old eyes and fingers, like colours that are easier to distinguish (yellow and white) or more that are appealing to older tastes, perhaps more stable or gummier turning, . or more comps and events if this market grows. A demonstration and public meeting of cubing celebrities, new model cubes to play with,.. would be great, for example, in the local senior citizen festivals.  (I had no idea modern cubes are so good until recently, thinking they were still blocky/catchy like the Rubik brand ones!)

I think speed is still important, but perhaps some of the other elements like ease of learning, intuitive solving methods and challenge for the brains could also be good or rewarding, besides developing 20 TPS and super fast recognition so as to be able to choose the right algorithm from among 100 of them.


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## povlhp (Jun 26, 2021)

Get the MGC Sq-1. Comes with extra set of black tiles to replace yellow or white.


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## Dan the Beginner (Jun 26, 2021)

I'm focusing on the 3x3 at the moment. Thanks.


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## Cubing Forever (Jun 26, 2021)

Dante Newbie said:


> intuitive solving methods


If you want intuitive methods, you can try Roux or Petrus. Both of them are really fun and require little to no algorithms.

There's also Heise with 0 algorithms but you don't wanna learn that. It's tough.


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## Dan the Beginner (Jun 26, 2021)

Cubing Forever said:


> If you want intuitive methods, you can try Roux or Petrus. Both of them are really fun and require little to no algorithms.
> 
> There's also Heise with 0 algorithms but you don't wanna learn that. It's tough.



Thanks, I am looking into Roux at this time and have already tried some basic Roux and finding it fascinating. It is more interesting to me than 4LLL, which I also had a play with. I will be making a decision soon, on whether to change to Roux. Compared to the CFOP path, which obviously is popular and great for speed, Roux seems to offer more challenge and relies less on remembering a lot of algorithms and super fast TPS or reaction times for decent solving speeds. That suits this older guy better, I think.

As for Petrus, I am not sure, but I may check it out if Roux is not working out for me. So far, it looks very promising.

Update. Just watched CriticalCubing's video on why he switched to Roux from CFOP (Click here for video), and also JPerm's video on why he stayed with CFOP after 2 months with Roux. It's so interesting to hear their stories and have their insights. The video again confirm that for older people just starting out, Roux should be considered early, before hard habits form. Roux means a more difficult start and need patience (than the daisy LBL method) for beginners, but is apparently just what I need compared to CFOP (which is very easy at the start but gets scary later with the amount of algorithms and cases to memorise). Just something from a beginner with 3 months' experience.


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## povlhp (Jun 28, 2021)

Dante Newbie said:


> Update. Just watched CriticalCubing's video on why he switched to Roux from CFOP (Click here for video), and also JPerm's video on why he stayed with CFOP after 2 months with Roux. It's so interesting to hear their stories and have their insights. The video again confirm that for older people just starting out, Roux should be considered early, before hard habits form. Roux means a more difficult start and need patience (than the daisy LBL method) for beginners, but is apparently just what I need compared to CFOP (which is very easy at the start but gets scary later with the amount of algorithms and cases to memorise). Just something from a beginner with 3 months' experience.


Started cubing in December. Learned CFOP/4LLL. And then switched to Roux. The CMLL algorithms are all transferable from 4LLL, but changed to another adjacent swap algorithm.
I have been doing lots of slow solves, and use both blue/green as FB color, and sometimes yellow down. CN is not really that difficult. But it is slower with unusual colors.
Started learning more CMLL algorithms but solve too little and forgets them.
Have had many fun side travels. Fisher/Windmill/Mastermorphix. Megaminx, Love the Sq-1 and its complexity. Doing 4x4-7x7. Cubing has so many sub-disciplines.


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## 40yearstosolve (Jul 12, 2021)

I am back! I've had a two year break from cubing. What I find odd is I seem to return to it in July each time, not realised until now, weird. Anyway, as before I am grateful for cubing and the help you guys gave me. And just as before returning after a break is a strange experience of the mental fog lifting. I am determined not to stop this time. Even if it's just once a day. Cheers


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## openseas (Jul 12, 2021)

We missed 9 year anniversary. Thanks Marcel who started this post (which became a group) !


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## Cubewerkz (Jul 18, 2021)

Hi

I am David Ang, founder of Cubewerkz. I am 51 years old. I promote speedcubing actively in my country and the region. I sponsored and organised competition. I have taught hundreds of people to solve. I first learn to solve Rubik’s Cube intuitively in the Eighties but when I picked up a cube again in the 2009, I got so fascinated and I proceed to learn to solve all kinds of puzzles. Subsequently I learn algorithms to solve faster and progress to CFOP. I have been to about 10 competition and have an sub 20 single and sub 24 avearage in 3x3. I am still improving moving closer to sub 20 average for average of 100. I owned a puzzle shop which teach Rubik’s classes to the masses. I sponsored best Cubers in the region including 2 currently World Champion in South East Asia. I developed a hybrid beginner method that involved less memorisation for solving without OLL and PLL.
You can try it out.

Example 1




Example 2





If you are in my region or happens to be in my Country, let me know.


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## Dan the Beginner (Jul 19, 2021)

Welcome, David. Great work with your CubeWerkz. Thank you for sharing your method and instruction video. I am very interested in it and will try it, as I believe it is very important to understand how the solving method works. Too many video just show you what to do without understanding, which is fine for learning quickly how to solve quickly, but I am one of those who want to enjoy solving and at my age, it is too hard for me to do it like most speed cubers - memorising huge amount of algorithms and practising for hundreds of hours for the sake of speed. It is interesting for me to learn more about how the cubing moves are actually doing.


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## Cubewerkz (Jul 19, 2021)

Finally found a thread that is right for me. It is not so much about breaking records for people. Setting PBs is nice. The thing I like about teaching people to solve puzzles is that it encouraged people to push their limits especially young people. People gained confidence when they can do something well. Here is picture of my shop. It has become a favourite hunt out for puzzle enthusiasts. Cubewerkz happens to be 9 years old, about the same as this thread


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## Dan the Beginner (Jul 19, 2021)

Nice shop. I agree that there should be more to cubing than just breaking WRs. This Older Cuber thread is where I will visit often and I hope to learn and share. I will be happy to occasionally get an improvement and have a new PB, which is easy as I am still trying to become sub 1 minute.


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## Manxkiwi (Jul 22, 2021)

Hi there, thought I'd better get a post in here, as I'm 56.. I have done my intro in the intro section (obviously).

Got back into it in 2015 after previously cubing in the 80s. Goals at the moment are to (hopefully) get sub 30 over 100/500, currently 36. Also maybe enter an official competition, just for fun and maybe to feel like a surrogate grandfather to all the other competitors!!! Lol..

Looking forward to conversing with fellow cubers. Cheers.


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## Dan the Beginner (Jul 23, 2021)

Welcome! That'a a lot of cubes you have there. You are nowhere near the oldest, but I think you are among the top cubing oldies. I am 75 and I know there are older cubers here. I am sub 2 minutes.


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## One Wheel (Nov 20, 2021)

It's sad to see this thread languish.

I just got a full set of 5x5 PB averages: the MGC is good.
Mo3: 1:55.10
Ao5: 1:57.59
Ao12: 2:04.18
Ao50: 2:08.97
Ao100: 2:12.22
Ao500: 2:16.23
Ao1000: 2:17.46

I'm trying to set up a pair of competitions in January, anybody have good leads on lining up a delegate? It seems that the guys who might otherwise be available are concerned about Covid. I can respect their concerns, but that's not where I or most people around here are at. I think I can run the competition pretty cheaply, and cover reasonable travel costs with registration fees.


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## OtterCuber (Nov 20, 2021)

One Wheel said:


> It's sad to see this thread languish.
> 
> I just got a full set of 5x5 PB averages: the MGC is good.
> Mo3: 1:55.10
> ...



Hey, glad to see this thread alive again. I haven't been to a competition before, but the WCA forums might be a good place to seek advice.

Great 5x5 averages by the way!


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## Jason Green (Nov 24, 2021)

One Wheel said:


> It's sad to see this thread languish.
> 
> I just got a full set of 5x5 PB averages: the MGC is good.
> Mo3: 1:55.10
> ...


I still peak in every day or so.


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## pglewis (Dec 3, 2021)

One Wheel said:


> It's sad to see this thread languish.
> 
> I just got a full set of 5x5 PB averages: the MGC is good.
> Mo3: 1:55.10
> ...


I still cruise by here every couple of weeks at worst. 

I love the fact that your 5x5 Ao5 is 10 seconds faster than my 4x4 Ao5 . I'm soooo bad at big cubes, they amplify all my weaknesses. Good to see you around and great job on those 5x5 averages.


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## pglewis (Dec 3, 2021)

3x3 is about the only thing I've done for ages and still only marginal progress there. I haven't done a 3-bld solve in 2 or 3 years and would have to relearn a lot just to get back into it (though I will, one day). I occasionally get fascinated by a non-WCA puzzle for a week or two, 2x2x3 tower was a fun, brief diversion about a month ago. After a long hiatus I've been doing some casual 4x4 and 5x5 solves a couple times a month, basically just enough not to forget the damn OLL parity lol. 

I've been doing a lot of "fluency" work on my 3x3 solves, primarily to minimize regrips during F2L and get my pairs to flow more fluidly. Faster/smoother back slot pairs and giving high priority to solving back slots early is tied-in with that. It has been slow going. I have a lot of bad habits to break, muscle memory to retrain, and new fingertricks to get used to. I haven't been timing much for obvious reasons, just occasional check-ins to see if my potential is at least making any movement, but I'd been stalled for so long I resigned myself to the possibility that I may just be permanently stuck in the low 20s. I had a couple great sessions last week though, a full-step 13.8, a bunch of 14s and 15s, and when my lookahead was actually clicking I could sub 20 even screwing up and doing two OLLs. Still needs work and consistency but it felt good to be yawning over mid 17s when I was peaking.


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## Manxkiwi (Dec 5, 2021)

Wow, you guys have some seriously good times going on there. Very impressive.


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## OtterCuber (Dec 5, 2021)

Whenever I feel dejected, I just look at Ron van Bruchem's profile.


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## openseas (Dec 6, 2021)

pglewis said:


> 3x3 is about the only thing I've done for ages and still only marginal progress there. I haven't done a 3-bld solve in 2 or 3 years and would have to relearn a lot just to get back into it (though I will, one day). I occasionally get fascinated by a non-WCA puzzle for a week or two, 2x2x3 tower was a fun, brief diversion about a month ago. After a long hiatus I've been doing some casual 4x4 and 5x5 solves a couple times a month, basically just enough not to forget the damn OLL parity lol.
> 
> I've been doing a lot of "fluency" work on my 3x3 solves, primarily to minimize regrips during F2L and get my pairs to flow more fluidly. Faster/smoother back slot pairs and giving high priority to solving back slots early is tied-in with that. It has been slow going. I have a lot of bad habits to break, muscle memory to retrain, and new fingertricks to get used to. I haven't been timing much for obvious reasons, just occasional check-ins to see if my potential is at least making any movement, but I'd been stalled for so long I resigned myself to the possibility that I may just be permanently stuck in the low 20s. I had a couple great sessions last week though, a full-step 13.8, a bunch of 14s and 15s, and when my lookahead was actually clicking I could sub 20 even screwing up and doing two OLLs. Still needs work and consistency but it felt good to be yawning over mid 17s when I was peaking.


That's a good progress you've made!


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## RubikDog (Dec 8, 2021)

11.96 with pll-skip, prev pb 12.08. Next year maybe first comp..









alg.cubing.net






alg.cubing.net


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## OtterCuber (Dec 13, 2021)

RubikDog said:


> 11.96 with pll-skip, prev pb 12.08. Next year maybe first comp..
> 
> 
> 
> ...



This was a beautiful F2L solution: U R U' R' U2 F' r U r'


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## openseas (Feb 22, 2022)

Wait, nobody posted anything yet this year?????


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## Mike Hughey (Feb 22, 2022)

openseas said:


> Wait, nobody posted anything yet this year?????


Well you did! 

I'm excited because I'm actually going to a competition in April, in Ohio.


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## pjk (Feb 22, 2022)

openseas said:


> Wait, nobody posted anything yet this year?????


Where did everyone go? I've never fully understood how this thread has almost died.


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## One Wheel (Feb 22, 2022)

pjk said:


> Where did everyone go? I've never fully understood how this thread has almost died.


I've heard rumors of Facebook, but I'm not on Facebook so I can't verify that.


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## OtterCuber (Feb 22, 2022)

Let's keep this thread active. How's everyone's cubing going? I'm excited about Athefre's Method March. I will probably try to learn M2.


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## One Wheel (Feb 22, 2022)

I seem to have forgotten the longer M-slice target algs for M2. I need to look them up. Every once in a while I scramble a 3x3 and then solve edges only, and try to work out 3-style algs for corners, in getting better at that but far from ready to try it blindfolded. I'm getting a fair bit of practice at 5x5 and 6x6 recently, sub-2 5x5 no longer warrants excitement, but I'm definitely not there consistently.


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## theos (Feb 22, 2022)

I really got into 4BLD last year and got 3 comps lined up with 4BLD in them. I have a real shot at getting sub-10 and maybe a NR. Unfortunately I triple-DNFed in the first of these comps, so hopefully things go better in the next two in March.


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## Flowkap (Feb 23, 2022)

I got my first square-1 these days, making my collection almost WCA complete. 6x6 + 7x7 on the way. Seems my oldish (in Cuber years) brain still can learn


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## pglewis (Feb 23, 2022)

I picked up an MGC 5x5 and have enjoyed the solves so much more vs. my old QiYi. I'm still glacially slow (over 5 mins) because I refuse to learn any more algs and I also end up 2-looking OLL and PLL fairly often because a respectable number of my 3x3 LL algs end in failure. That hasn't stopped me from binge-solving since I got it though. 

I also got a Square-1 that I'm hoping to figure out on my own, being in no particular hurry. With enough fiddling I can get it back to cubic shape and will continue toying around to see if I can come with some algs from there. 

Not much news on 3x3 in a while. I had a good spell a few weeks ago where I threatened my Ao5 (17.57) and just missed by like a few tenths. My top 10 singles are all under :14 now, after a sudden burst of 13s including a few full-step ones. I've had less practice time recently and the new 5x5 has stolen most of that, plus I haven't been timing as much again either. I'm still maintaining a global in the low-low 20s though, mostly the sup-24 mistake solves keeping me over :20.


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## OtterCuber (Feb 23, 2022)

Flowkap said:


> I got my first square-1 these days, making my collection almost WCA complete. 6x6 + 7x7 on the way. Seems my oldish (in Cuber years) brain still can learn


Wow, you've learned a lot of WCA events! I can only manage two or three events at a time, I think.


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## GodCubing (Feb 24, 2022)

If ur old, you should try a low movecount method like roux or petrus


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## theos (Feb 24, 2022)

pglewis said:


> I also got a Square-1 that I'm hoping to figure out on my own, being in no particular hurry. With enough fiddling I can get it back to cubic shape and will continue toying around to see if I can come with some algs from there.


Good luck with the square-1! After learning 3x3, I was able to eventually figure out my own solutions for all WCA puzzles except square-1. Something about it just broke my brain. I eventually had to look up some algorithms because I wanted to compete in square-1 in a competition, but if you have the time and patience for it, I think you'll find it a nice challenge.


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## OtterCuber (Feb 24, 2022)

theos said:


> Good luck with the square-1! After learning 3x3, I was able to eventually figure out my own solutions for all WCA puzzles except square-1. Something about it just broke my brain. I eventually had to look up some algorithms because I wanted to compete in square-1 in a competition, but if you have the time and patience for it, I think you'll find it a nice challenge.


I see that you are a FMC expert. How did you learn it, sir?


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## theos (Feb 26, 2022)

OtterCuber said:


> I see that you are a FMC expert. How did you learn it, sir?


When I started cubing, the first method I learned was the Heise method. It's already a fairly move-efficient method and it includes the concepts of block-building and commutators so I was already well set up to tackle FMC. Then when I wanted to take FMC more seriously I used Sebastiano Tronto's FMC tutorial, often considered the bible of FMC. Now with the advent of domino reduction for FMC, I've been studying this Domino Reduction guide but so far with mixed results.


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## Bayamo Penguin (Feb 26, 2022)

wow, as a 50yo i'm glad i found this thread today


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## pglewis (Feb 26, 2022)

theos said:


> Good luck with the square-1! After learning 3x3, I was able to eventually figure out my own solutions for all WCA puzzles except square-1. Something about it just broke my brain. I eventually had to look up some algorithms because I wanted to compete in square-1 in a competition, but if you have the time and patience for it, I think you'll find it a nice challenge.


Thanks! I definitely empathize with the brain breakage but I'll keep at it unless/until it stops being fun. As a sanity check while avoiding spoilers: my approach so far has been 1) get it back to cubic, 2) orient the top and bottom, 3) permute to solve. Returning to cubic shape still stumps me for a bit on occasion and I've yet to orient from there, even by accident. I can get to a single corner off on both sides, or half and half on both sides (the orientation always ends up such that it denies being fixed up as easily as it seems like it should be). I get so far on step 2 and then seem to settle into an endless loop, so a new approach is needed there. Anyway, let me know if I'm vaguely headed in the right direction, or at least, if there's a serious flaw with the approach I'm taking.


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## OtterCuber (Feb 26, 2022)

theos said:


> When I started cubing, the first method I learned was the Heise method. It's already a fairly move-efficient method and it includes the concepts of block-building and commutators so I was already well set up to tackle FMC. Then when I wanted to take FMC more seriously I used Sebastiano Tronto's FMC tutorial, often considered the bible of FMC. Now with the advent of domino reduction for FMC, I've been studying this Domino Reduction guide but so far with mixed results.


Thank you for sharing your pathway to success, theos.


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## pglewis (Feb 27, 2022)

RE: my probs trying to orient on Square 1: I finally realized I'm wrestling against parity. I need to swap opposite edges on one side and no amount of playing around was getting me there. A quick Googling verified this and, while trying not to spoil too much for myself, I did see that the parity fix-up is a somewhat long alg. That's not something I'm going to work out for myself right away so the next plan of attack is repeatedly scramble out of cubic form and just hope I luck into fixing it up one of these times.

[Edit: bingo, lucked into fixing parity on the first random try. Just permutation left]


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## qwr (Feb 27, 2022)

pglewis said:


> RE: my probs trying to orient on Square 1: I finally realized I'm wrestling against parity. I need to swap opposite edges on one side and no amount of playing around was getting me there. A quick Googling verified this and, while trying not to spoil too much for myself, I did see that the parity fix-up is a somewhat long alg. That's not something I'm going to work out for myself right away so the next plan of attack is repeatedly scramble out of cubic form and just hope I luck into fixing it up one of these times.
> 
> [Edit: bingo, lucked into fixing parity on the first random try. Just permutation left]


I don't remember how to solve square-1 but I don't think there is an easy way out of parity that preserves cubeshape intuitively. 
If I study the puzzle more, I will try to come up with an invariant at the start that determines if parity occurs at all, like squanners do with CSP and some 4x4 methods can do.


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## pglewis (Feb 28, 2022)

qwr said:


> I don't remember how to solve square-1 but I don't think there is an easy way out of parity that preserves cubeshape intuitively.
> If I study the puzzle more, I will try to come up with an invariant at the start that determines if parity occurs at all, like squanners do with CSP and some 4x4 methods can do.


I seem to have managed to mess up parity without leaving cube shape. I had been experimenting with ideas for permuting for a while when I accidentally messed up orientation. "No big deal" I thought, but before I knew it I was back to the case where U and D are half and half but not lined up such that I could orient. I'm pretty sure I didn't leave cube shape, though I'll be damned if I know what I did. 

I have at least one home brew alg that I've worked out how it changes the permutation. As it sits on my desk right now I have just two corners swapped and basically a U Perm on one side, though getting it this far hardly qualifies as "speedsolving" by any definition.


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## Mike Hughey (Feb 28, 2022)

When I figured out how to solve Square-1 "on my own", I actually came up with an 80 move algorithm (I think I remember it was 80 moves) that messed up all my progress, but was guaranteed to invert parity. I then just solved it a second time, and it was guaranteed to work. So I did indeed figure out a reliable method for solving Square-1; it was just a really terrible speedsolving method. 

How did I find that algorithm? Just silly trial and error. It was mostly repetitive with a weird move or two thrown in. I don't remember at all what it was; as soon as I knew it was reliable, I decided I was done with that task (figuring it out on my own) and immediately learned a more practical parity algorithm.


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## theos (Feb 28, 2022)

pglewis said:


> I seem to have managed to mess up parity without leaving cube shape. I had been experimenting with ideas for permuting for a while when I accidentally messed up orientation. "No big deal" I thought, but before I knew it I was back to the case where U and D are half and half but not lined up such that I could orient. I'm pretty sure I didn't leave cube shape, though I'll be damned if I know what I did.
> 
> I have at least one home brew alg that I've worked out how it changes the permutation. As it sits on my desk right now I have just two corners swapped and basically a U Perm on one side, though getting it this far hardly qualifies as "speedsolving" by any definition.


Just to be clear, when we talk about parity for square-1 we mean permutation parity and your current situation is exactly a parity case. That is when you have a solvable PLL on one layer and an unsolvable PLL on the other (solvable/unsolvable as determined by solving PLL on a regular 3x3). This would be impossible to solve on a 3x3 so that means you must have to leave cube-shape to solve it.


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## pglewis (Feb 28, 2022)

Mike Hughey said:


> When I figured out how to solve Square-1 "on my own", I actually came up with an 80 move algorithm (I think I remember it was 80 moves) that messed up all my progress, but was guaranteed to invert parity. I then just solved it a second time, and it was guaranteed to work. So I did indeed figure out a reliable method for solving Square-1; it was just a really terrible speedsolving method.
> 
> How did I find that algorithm? Just silly trial and error. It was mostly repetitive with a weird move or two thrown in. I don't remember at all what it was; as soon as I knew it was reliable,_ *I decided I was done with that task (figuring it out on my own) and immediately learned a more practical parity algorithm*._



That's precisely the approach I intend to take. Relying on random rescrambling and luck to clear up parity or working out some long but reliable fix-up is unlikely to remain inside the "fun zone" for long lol. A proper parity alg will be the first thing I end up learning. 



theos said:


> Just to be clear, when we talk about parity for square-1 we mean permutation parity and your current situation is exactly a parity case. That is when you have a solvable PLL on one layer and an unsolvable PLL on the other (solvable/unsolvable as determined by solving PLL on a regular 3x3). This would be impossible to solve on a 3x3 so that means you must have to leave cube-shape to solve it.


Is there a form of OLL parity as well? I've gotten stumped at the orient stage numerous times and _assumed _it was a parity issue (I end up needing to swap opposite edges on just one side). If not then I still have some things to figure out in the orient stage. So far random rescrambling out of cube shape and back has eventually gotten me to a point when I can orient but it's sounding like I may be mistaking my ignorance about orienting certain cases for parity.


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## One Wheel (Feb 28, 2022)

The "OLL parity" case I presume you're taking about, with a single edge on each face in the wrong layer, is not a parity case.


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## pglewis (Mar 2, 2022)

Latest in the Square-1 saga: I managed to solve all corners, though edges aren't oriented yet. I think this means I've finally lucked out of parity for real, though. I have a home-brew alg that solved CP but I don't have anything for EP. More to work out once I fix EO (which I still struggle with sometimes).

[Edit: nope. Ended up with a UPerm on one side and not a PLL on the other, with two edges solved]


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## theos (Mar 2, 2022)

pglewis said:


> Latest in the Square-1 saga: I managed to solve all corners, though edges aren't oriented yet. I think this means I've finally lucked out of parity for real, though. I have a home-brew alg that solved CP but I don't have anything for EP. More to work out once I fix EO (which I still struggle with sometimes).


Yeah, I think with EO, you can swap two pairs of edge between layers intuitively, but you'll have to work out an algorithm to swap a single pair of edges between layers.


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## theos (Mar 6, 2022)

theos said:


> I really got into 4BLD last year and got 3 comps lined up with 4BLD in them. I have a real shot at getting sub-10 and maybe a NR. Unfortunately I triple-DNFed in the first of these comps, so hopefully things go better in the next two in March.


Good news... my first solve of today's competition was a 4BLD success, a 7:14 and a NR! Ended up just 2 swapped centers away from my first official 4BLD mean.


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## pglewis (Mar 6, 2022)

I did finally luck my way out of parity, ending up with a GPerm/UPerm pair. I have a couple algs to play with CP and now I'm sitting on HPerm/UPerm... and nothing in my toolbelt for working with EP yet. Feels like a huge victory nonetheless!


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## pglewis (Mar 6, 2022)

theos said:


> Good news... my first solve of today's competition was a 4BLD success, a 7:14 and a NR! Ended up just 2 swapped centers away from my first official 4BLD mean.


Congrats, what a great feeling that must have been!


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## pglewis (Mar 6, 2022)

I finally got it with a dose of extra luck. Working out opposite or adjacent edge swaps on both sides felt really intuitive but I was still stumped by opp/adj on one side and a 3-cycle on the other. I was still experimenting with ideas in that direction and accidentally got it solved, accompanied by a legit gasp. 

Next up I guess I'll finally learn notation and a parity alg.


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## Silky (Mar 6, 2022)

When am I considered old? Serious question..


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## bulkocuber (Mar 6, 2022)

Silky said:


> When am I considered old? Serious question..


When you aren't young

Serious answer


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## pglewis (Mar 7, 2022)

Silky said:


> When am I considered old? Serious question..


I can't help you on a philosophical level, I'm still in denial that I, myself, am the same age as old people. 

As it relates to the hobby: there is no official answer. The WCA does not have age divisions nor do they specifically track any stats by age group. 

Unofficially, @Logiqx maintains a senior rankings list using official results data. Those rankings currently start at age 40 (at the time of the competition results) and can be filtered by decade from there, over 40, over 50, ... 

In general: given the median age I've seen at comps I'm sure people speed-solving in their mid 20s probably feel like older cubers and I couldn't say they're wrong.


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## Logiqx (Mar 9, 2022)

Friendly reminder to all over 40s who have competed in a WCA competition. I maintain this website listing senior rankings, upcoming competitions, etc. If you aren't listed then please consider registering. 






Senior Rankings


Senior Rankings



logiqx.github.io





Registration is via https://logiqx.github.io/wca-ipy-www/Registration.html


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## Lid (Mar 14, 2022)

First "full-step" sub 10 today!!! Previous I only had 2 sub10 with skips before.

*9.543*
L2 F2 U B2 U L2 D2 F2 R2 D U' B' R U F2 R2 F2 D R' D' R' 
x D' F2 R2 D2 // x-cross (4)
U' L' U L // pair (4)
y' U L' U2 L2 U L' // pair (6)
U L' U2 L U L' U' L // pair (8)
[ l' U L' U L U2 L' // OLL - fat sune (7)
R U R' F' R U R' U' R' F R2 U' R' U // PLL - Jperm (14)
43 HTM (~4.5 tps)


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## Mike Hughey (Apr 3, 2022)

My all-out assault on the over-60 records this weekend is done now.  If no one else beats my times this weekend, I should hold the #1 spot for over-60 cubers for 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, megaminx, Square-1, skewb, clock, OH, fewest moves singles and 2, 3, OH, clock, pyraminx, skewb, and fewest moves averages. I'm over-60 #2 for 2 and pyraminx singles and for 3BLD single and mean.

Great fun! It will be interesting to see how many weeks it lasts before the really good cubers start aging into the category. It was so nice and lucky to get to a competition with so many events just a couple of weeks after my birthday!! Much thanks to the organizers of the Ohio State Expo Open for a really fun and well-run competition.

Edit: It's official now.


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## CLL Smooth (May 7, 2022)

First comp in 4 years today. I got a pb Ao12 while practicing at the venue (12.983). Managed to get sub-15 average on first round (14.732) despite 2 16.xy solves.
Update: the rest of my stuff didn’t go too well but someone got NAR single (3.8x)


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## Imsoosm (May 8, 2022)

CLL Smooth said:


> First comp in 4 years today. I got a pb Ao12 while practicing at the venue (12.983). Managed to get sub-15 average on first round (14.732) despite 2 16.xy solves.
> Update: the rest of my stuff didn’t go too well but someone got NAR single (3.8x)


You were at Rose City 2022??
That's cool, I've also wanted to witness the creation of a record.


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## theos (May 9, 2022)

Imsoosm said:


> You were at Rose City 2022??
> That's cool, I've also wanted to witness the creation of a record.


I was at a competition when Zayn Khanani set a 2x2 WR Average, except I was across the street grabbing lunch at the time. I was at a competition when Stanley Chapel set a 4BLD WR Single, except I was solving and blindfolded at the time. And I was at World Champs 2019 when the Skewb WR single was set and, like everyone else in attendance, I completely missed it.


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## Mike Hughey (Jun 6, 2022)

Wow, big names starting to turn 40.

Kind of wild to think that Tyson Mao turns 40 in less than 2 years. It won't be long before all the big early names in the cubing revival are over 40.


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## UncleFrank (Jun 22, 2022)

Imsoosm said:


> I've also wanted to witness the creation of a record.


There are stats for that; people who could have [potentially] seen the most world records, because they were at the same competition where a world record was set - https://jonatanklosko.github.io/wca_statistics/potentially_seen_world_records


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## Filipe Teixeira (Jun 22, 2022)

theos said:


> Stanley Chapel set a 4BLD WR Single, except I was solving and blindfolded at the time. And I was at World Champs 2019 when the Skewb WR single was set and, like everyone else in attendance, I completely missed it.


I watched it on twitch.


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## Barbol (Jul 11, 2022)

Logiqx said:


> Friendly reminder to all over 40s who have competed in a WCA competition. I maintain this website listing senior rankings, upcoming competitions, etc. If you aren't listed then please consider registering.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Hi.
I sent the registration a month and a half ago and I still haven't added. Should I do something more?

Regards


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## Lid (Jul 12, 2022)

New a 12 PB, *14.346* (old pb was from march 2020)

14.085, 15.172, 13.323, 14.545, (15.639), 14.372, 15.143, 13.707, 13.920, 15.044, (12.716), 14.145



Spoiler: scambles



2022-07-12
Average of 12: 14.346
1. 14.085 U2 F2 D' L2 U' B2 U' F2 L2 D2 R F2 U F L B U R U' B
2. 15.172 B2 L2 U B2 F2 D R2 D B2 D' U' L F' U2 F D L' B R' F' U
3. 13.323 D' F2 D' B2 R2 D F2 U' B2 R2 F R F L' B2 R' F2 R' U B' R2
4. 14.545 U F2 U B2 R2 U B2 D' F' D2 F D' R' D2 F U F2 R'
5. (15.639) D2 L' B U R U F U R' D2 R2 B' R2 U2 B2 R2 F R2 U2 R2
6. 14.372 L2 U2 B2 D B2 D' B2 L2 U' B2 D B L' U' R' D2 F' U R2 B F
7. 15.143 U2 R' F2 U2 F2 R2 U2 L F2 D2 L B' L D' R2 D2 U R' D' L2 D2
8. 13.707 D' L2 F2 L2 R2 U F2 D L2 F2 D' R D F2 R2 B' R' D U' F L
9. 13.920 D2 R2 U' B2 D B2 R2 F2 L2 B' D' B2 R' F2 L2 U2 R' F2 R' U
10. 15.044 D R2 B2 R2 D2 B2 D' L2 D' B2 R2 F U' L' R2 U R' B' D' F' R
11. (12.716) F2 L F2 L F2 R' B2 F2 L' D2 U2 B F' L U' F' R' F' L2 B2 R'
12. 14.145 B2 L2 D' F2 D B2 D2 F2 U' B2 U2 R B' U L B2 R2 D' U' L D



Still using the same old ValkM, even thou I should really get some new updated cubes ...


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## Arnavol (Jul 13, 2022)

Barbol said:


> Hi.
> I sent the registration a month and a half ago and I still haven't added. Should I do something more?
> 
> Regards,
> Miguel Sánchez, 2016ESCR01


It takes a while for the registration to be processed as this is done by hand. Once you are in,, the updates will be much quicker.


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## theos (Jul 13, 2022)

theos said:


> Good news... my first solve of today's competition was a 4BLD success, a 7:14 and a NR! Ended up just 2 swapped centers away from my first official 4BLD mean.


Since the above, I've learned how to do 5BLD. First competition with 5BLD was a disaster as there was far too much noise (outside the competition's control). I did somehow manage to scrape together a slow 4BLD success, but double DNFed the 5BLD.

And now I've just returned from an overseas trip where I attended 2 competitions, one of which had all the BLD events. I managed to improve my NR 4BLD to 6:53 and got my first competitive 5BLD success with a 20:44. This 5BLD time was slower than most of my at-home attempts as I had a long pause where I forgot my 3rd letter pair of X-centers and had to reconstruct my memo. Despite this slow time, it was actually faster than my first ever competitive 4BLD success, and is also the new NR.


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## Ander (Jul 19, 2022)

So, I had a good session today.
I started cubing back in 2018, went at it for a few months, got to about 80s average using LBL only, with a PB of 59s, then stopped.
I restarted a bit in 2020, learnt F2L and most of 2-look OLL, but I never managed to get as fast (slow, of course) and I stopped again.
I restarted a couple of weeks ago with some gusto, and today something finally clicked. I lowered my average down to about 75s, and I got a PB of 50s, which I can hardly believe.
I hope I can remain motivated because I am enjoying myself, despite my very high times.
I am sure if I keep practicing I will improve, so I am setting now a target of 30s PB and 45s average. Let's see if I can do it.


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## SenorJuan (Jul 20, 2022)

"I am sure if I keep practicing I will improve"
That's the right approach. The 30 secs barrier is a significant one .. I remember having a single PB of 32 secs when I left school (1984). Close, but not sub. Only when I started university, and met my friend Chris, who could manage 28sec ( with corners-first ) was I motivated enough to practice ( and modify my hardware ) enough to get a 29sec YES!
It was another decade before I got much better, though, hehe.


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## dirkgroot (Jul 25, 2022)

Hi all, another Dutch "old" guy here . I'm Dirk, and I'm 44 years old. More than 30 years ago, I taught myself to solve the cube using something similar to the beginner method, with the help of a book (the internet was still in its infancy back then). I'm sure my parents still have that book somewhere in their bookcase. A couple of weeks ago I found out about CFOP, bought a GAN speedcube, and started learning that.

Now, I average about 1:10 with a PB of 45.68. My current goal is to be able to consistently solve the cube in under 1 minute.


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## Garf (Jul 25, 2022)

dirkgroot said:


> Hi all, another Dutch "old" guy here . I'm Dirk, and I'm 44 years old. More than 30 years ago, I taught myself to solve the cube using something similar to the beginner method, with the help of a book (the internet was still in its infancy back then). I'm sure my parents still have that book somewhere in their bookcase. A couple of weeks ago I found out about CFOP, bought a GAN speedcube, and started learning that.
> 
> Now, I average about 1:10 with a PB of 45.68. My current goal is to be able to consistently solve the cube in under 1 minute.


Welcome! Try focusing on fingertricks, intuitive F2L fluency, and good habits for solving F2L. Also make sure not to learn Full Oll or Pll yet, as that might overwhelm you. It sure did for me!


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## Squamashii (Jul 25, 2022)

Nice. I recently taught myself F2L intuitively, but I am really slow. Solving a cube where I start with F2L, I average about 2 minutes. With a record of 1:17.94 I am still faster at one of my other methods. I broke a minute this week with it (51.15)! (I’m 32)


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## dirkgroot (Jul 25, 2022)

Anthony Tindal said:


> Welcome! Try focusing on fingertricks, intuitive F2L fluency, and good habits for solving F2L. Also make sure not to learn Full Oll or Pll yet, as that might overwhelm you. It sure did for me!


I'm roughly following the steps from this thread. I'm at step 2 now, so I'm doing 4LLL, but I've also already put some effort in learning intuitive F2L (I still need a lot of practice to get fast with it).

What good F2L habits are you thinking of? My current habits:

Keep cross at the bottom;
Minimize kube rotations, so don't rotate the cube in order to be able to solve a pair in the right front corner, but solve pairs in other corners as well if possible;
"Standardize your solve" as per BadMephisto's advice, so I always start F2L with the green side in front;


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## Imsoosm (Jul 25, 2022)

dirkgroot said:


> so I always start F2L with the green side in front;


It's actually not always good to do this, for example, you have a free pair in the back, but if you started from green at front, you need to do a rotation and then insert it. Just look for a good first pair and then starting from there.


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## Garf (Jul 25, 2022)

dirkgroot said:


> I'm roughly following the steps from this thread. I'm at step 2 now, so I'm doing 4LLL, but I've also already put some effort in learning intuitive F2L (I still need a lot of practice to get fast with it).
> 
> What good F2L habits are you thinking of? My current habits:
> 
> ...


Yeah, when you do this, it's called a "set color order" Basically, you force yourself to choose one side and start from there. There are situations where this may be useful, but you don't want to do this for 3x3. You need to be able to solve from *any side.*


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## SenorJuan (Jul 25, 2022)

I personally think that sticking to a fixed starting-face colour is the best option for us oldies. The tiny ( one or two moves ) reduction in solution length resulting from 'colour neutral' solving is just not worth it. Learning an advanced method like CFOP is challenging enough, without having to learn it 6 times. Putting effort into improving the 'F2L' stage can easily reduce movecount by 5 moves.

But starting the 'F2L' stage with a consistent colour on front is not beneficial, even if the intention is to simplify the learning process, and expand the skillset later.
Knowing how to solve to at least 2 of the 4 slots should be a standard part of your repertoire. Just about all algorithms/move-sequences can be 'rotated' , so for example the Back-Left slot can be solved instead of the Front-Right slot.


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## Ander (Jul 25, 2022)

Personally, the hardest challenge I face is finding the pieces I need to pair up in the F2L phase.
What I lack is cube situational awareness, so to speak: I have to do plenty of rotations and that wastes a lot of time.
Algs I can learn, and with time I can do them moderately fast, or at least fast enough for now.
I am trying to improve it by solving slow to force myself to see during the solve, but so far results are not great.
I will just keep at it


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## UncleFrank (Jul 25, 2022)

dirkgroot said:


> Hi all, another Dutch "old" guy here . I'm Dirk, and I'm 44 years old. More than 30 years ago, I taught myself to solve the cube using something similar to the beginner method, with the help of a book (the internet was still in its infancy back then). I'm sure my parents still have that book somewhere in their bookcase. A couple of weeks ago I found out about CFOP, bought a GAN speedcube, and started learning that.
> 
> Now, I average about 1:10 with a PB of 45.68. My current goal is to be able to consistently solve the cube in under 1 minute.



Welcome to the crowd.
Keep up with how other seniors 40+ are doing in competitions - 





Senior Rankings


Senior Rankings



logiqx.github.io









Senior Rankings


Senior Rankings



logiqx.github.io




and if you've ever been to a competition, sign up on that site, too.


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## dirkgroot (Jul 25, 2022)

Anthony Tindal said:


> Yeah, when you do this, it's called a "set color order" Basically, you force yourself to choose one side and start from there. There are situations where this may be useful, but you don't want to do this for 3x3. You need to be able to solve from *any side.*


Interestingly, always starting with green in the front has helped me internalizing how the green, red, blue and orange faces are positioned relative to each other. The last few days, I found myself breaking the "always start with green in front" habit without thinking about it and intuitively knowing in which corner a pair needed to go relative to the color in front (although I also screw up some times).

Just to clarify: I am/was just starting out with green in the front. When I do a cube rotation, I don't revert to green in the front afterwards, and try to solve the rest of the pairs without cube rotations, until I can't, or don't know how to.


Ander said:


> Personally, the hardest challenge I face is finding the pieces I need to pair up in the F2L phase.
> What I lack is cube situational awareness, so to speak: I have to do plenty of rotations and that wastes a lot of time.
> Algs I can learn, and with time I can do them moderately fast, or at least fast enough for now.
> I am trying to improve it by solving slow to force myself to see during the solve, but so far results are not great.
> I will just keep at it


I found that just tilting the cube a little bit can reveal just the information you need, especially when one or more pairs are solved. When I see a red sticker on the back of the R side, while I know the red/green side has already been solved, I can be sure that that's a red/blue cubie.


SenorJuan said:


> I personally think that sticking to a fixed starting-face colour is the best option for us oldies. The tiny ( one or two moves ) reduction in solution length resulting from 'colour neutral' solving is just not worth it. Learning an advanced method like CFOP is challenging enough, without having to learn it 6 times. Putting effort into improving the 'F2L' stage can easily reduce movecount by 5 moves.


Interesting. I guess that would make it a little bit easier to find the first F2L pair to be solved, because you're looking for specific color combinations. Currently, I just look for pairs and start to solve the first one I find, regardless of how easy or hard it is to solve.


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## Imsoosm (Jul 25, 2022)

dirkgroot said:


> I found that just tilting the cube a little bit can reveal just the information you need


This is a very good idea, some top cubers do this as well. Also memorizing color schemes is important, know that (from left to right) blue is followed by red, which is followed by green, then orange. Memorizing that helps a lot during F2L.


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## Logiqx (Jul 26, 2022)

Barbol said:


> Hi.
> I sent the registration a month and a half ago and I still haven't added. Should I do something more?
> 
> Regards



I've never been that slow to add people. What is your WCA ID?


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## Cuberto333 (Jul 27, 2022)

dirkgroot said:


> Hi all, another Dutch "old" guy here . I'm Dirk, and I'm 44 years old. More than 30 years ago, I taught myself to solve the cube using something similar to the beginner method, with the help of a book (the internet was still in its infancy back then). I'm sure my parents still have that book somewhere in their bookcase. A couple of weeks ago I found out about CFOP, bought a GAN speedcube, and started learning that.
> 
> Now, I average about 1:10 with a PB of 45.68. My current goal is to be able to consistently solve the cube in under 1 minute.


Ha! I'm older than all of you, lol! But seriously, I can't get sub 60. Started cubing last july. I'm 61, btw.


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## UncleFrank (Aug 28, 2022)

@Logiqx 
Suggestion for the Senior Rankings site:
Give all the seniors their own senior profile page on the site, similar to a wca profile page but showing only their senior records and results. Then when you click on a name in the senior rankings list, it goes to their senior profile page instead of their wca profile page. Then add a link to their wca profile from their senior profile.


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## Lyzardmaster (Oct 26, 2022)

A total newbie, a 63 year old senior newbie here.
I got my first Rubic's cube back in 1982, played with it for a week and lost interest.
After almost 40 years in 2020, Rubic's cube got my attention again, for what reason I don't know, and bought another one (Rubic's v2) for the hell of it.
In August of 2021, I started trying to learn CFOP from J-perm on youtube.
I wonder if cubing could save me from blurring.....


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## LBr (Oct 26, 2022)

It just occurred to me that in less than 3 years tingman will be old enough to make the list and from what I can see he will do quite well. However over the coming decades we will have former wr holders joining and it will get infinitely harder to perform. It’s interesting to think that, as cubing matures so will the competitor base at least to some degree


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## OldSwiss (Oct 27, 2022)

With 46 'im far away from the oldest here but still much older than most cubers.

I've started half a year ago and in the moment I average around 30 seconds for 3x3, 10 Seconds for 2x2 with Ortega, 2 Minutes for 4x4 and 5 Minutes for 5x5.
My best singles until now were a couple of 20:xx and 21:xx with my smartcube.

I've never been to a competition but as soon there is one in my area I will try it.

My biggest problem is to find the F2L pieces and I guess that's also the biggest potential for imprevements.
In the cubeast app I can see the solving times vs. recocnition times and sometimes there is more recognition time than the solve itself.
Probably that is also a sign of age 

Currently I'm trying to learn one handed. Here I also think my fingers would be more flexible and quite faster if I were younger.
My main problem there is to get back the Algs from muscle memory to my brain but I think thats not fully age related. 


One advantage of being an older cuber is that I can afford all the hardware I want and don't have to ask my parents 

Also with way to many cubes, cubing is the cheapest hobby I've ever had.
I also do triathlon and there you pay thousands of bucks for bikes, running shoes and the competition fees can go up to 1000.- for an Ironman start.


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## One Wheel (Oct 27, 2022)

OldSwiss said:


> Also with way to many cubes, cubing is the cheapest hobby I've ever had.
> I also do triathlon and there you pay thousands of bucks for bikes, running shoes and the competition fees can go up to 1000.- for an Ironman start.


It is funny how scale works like that. I would never pay more than $50 for a 3x3, or just about any puzzle. I think in close to 10 years I might have spent $1,000 on cubing. I have almost $1,200 set aside right now to buy a new bike, and need to save up another $1,700 just to get the frameset I want and another $2,000ish for wheels and groupset. $100 for a race entry fee last month was an easy decision. I'm glad cubing is relatively cheap, and I hope it stays that way.


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## Dutch Speed (Oct 27, 2022)

Another dutch older guy here. 47 and still rocking. Started only 1.5 month ago with cubing and I love it and the community is amazing till now


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## OtterCuber (Nov 11, 2022)

Dutch Speed said:


> Another dutch older guy here. 47 and still rocking. Started only 1.5 month ago with cubing and I love it and the community is amazing till now


Welcome. Join some Discord channels so you enjoy the community more.


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## Dutch Speed (Nov 11, 2022)

OtterCuber said:


> Welcome. Join some Discord channels so you enjoy the community more.


Thanks for the tip


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## David Zemdegs (Dec 19, 2022)

Feliks turns 27 today. I guess he's going to join the 'older' cubers soon!


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## Mike Hughey (Dec 19, 2022)

David Zemdegs said:


> Feliks turns 27 today. I guess he's going to join the 'older' cubers soon!


Looking forward to when Feliks is a cubing parent.


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## m.ipg21 (Dec 30, 2022)

I too had a rubiks cube when they came out loved and hated it... loved playing with it (did for a long while) but frustrated I could never solve it. I think I got 3/4 faces completed and could no more.... that was my approach... I've known people who could solve it and in the back of mind I was curious.

Then last year my 4 yr old comes across cubers on youtube and is fascinated... got him a cube and I was shocked by how could seem to repeat their finger moves.... got him more cubes (don't ask how many we have) because I love how he was developing his spatial reasoning. And I wanted to scaffold his ability: went from skewb, pyraminx duo, dinocube, spot cube... and he figured out the pyraminx by himself (every now and then he got a 2x2 and 2x2 mirror cube by himself).

We had 2x2 and 3x3 that we could not solve... a neighbor was nice enough to help us (learning from youtube). SO last Novermber I was determined to learn and sat myself to watch the WIRED magazine video... and in 3 hrs finished it. I was hooked, and took at step by step to understand beginners method... and then worked to help my son... and sure enough right before his 5th birthday (and his interest in cubes waning a little)... he did it!

we're hooked. We've been to competitions, connected with 7 yr olds (who are sharp for their age)... and now some of us parents support each other's cubing.

My goal is to be sub-1 minute consistently or better <40 seconds to qualify for the U.S. nationals... (or first get my son there).

And then I have crazy ideas of how I will evangelize cubing to teens and future maths teachers =)
[I'll see if I can teach my mom how to solve a 3x3, and my brother and niece.... ]

Glad to come across this thread (and community on facebook and github senior rankings) !!!


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## J41 (Dec 31, 2022)

m.ipg21 said:


> I too had a rubiks cube when they came out loved and hated it... loved playing with it (did for a long while) but frustrated I could never solve it. I think I got 3/4 faces completed and could no more.... that was my approach... I've known people who could solve it and in the back of mind I was curious.
> 
> Then last year my 4 yr old comes across cubers on youtube and is fascinated... got him a cube and I was shocked by how could seem to repeat their finger moves.... got him more cubes (don't ask how many we have) because I love how he was developing his spatial reasoning. And I wanted to scaffold his ability: went from skewb, pyraminx duo, dinocube, spot cube... and he figured out the pyraminx by himself (every now and then he got a 2x2 and 2x2 mirror cube by himself).
> 
> ...


Loved reading this post!


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